# Catahoula Question



## QNQ Boers (Oct 12, 2017)

I have the opportunity to purchase a female catahoula/anatolian pup. I was wondering if the anatolian in her would make her a good option for me as an lgd? I have a pretty healthy coyote and population and a oddly large bobcat population near my farm that has the goats on it. And don't want to leave the goats unprotected. Thanks


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Catahoulas are used for hunting and herding, so I would say that getting a cross would be an extremely bad idea.

Reason being that you don’t know if the pup will take more of the Anatolian or Catahoula personality or a bit of both. Will it herd and bite at your goats until they croak from stress? Will it hunt young babies that move too fast? If one of your does gets protective of its babies, will that dog lash out?

I know enough people that struggle with their purebred LGD breed killing their animals, so I wouldn’t personally risk it. Everything could be fine until one day it isn’t.


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## QNQ Boers (Oct 12, 2017)

CountyLineAcres said:


> Catahoulas are used for hunting and herding, so I would say that getting a cross would be an extremely bad idea.
> 
> Reason being that you don't know if the pup will take more of the Anatolian or Catahoula personality or a bit of both. Will it herd and bite at your goats until they croak from stress? Will it hunt young babies that move too fast? If one of your does gets protective of its babies, will that dog lash out?
> 
> I know enough people that struggle with their purebred LGD breed killing their animals, so I wouldn't personally risk it. Everything could be fine until one day it isn't.


Ok thanks, the seller also has a litter of black lab/anatolian puppies how would this cross work do you think?


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

QNQ Boers said:


> Ok thanks, the seller also has a litter of black lab/anatolian puppies how would this cross work do you think?


Labs are still used for hunting (mostly for ducks). I would purchase only from a farm that has pure LGDs with proven working parents, so you don't have any surprises. Crossing different LGD breeds shouldn't be an issue, but I wouldn't consider anything not within that realm.

Plus, if that breeder is cross breeding these specific breeds, you probably aren't buying quality puppies from proven working lines.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Where are you located? I know of a few great breeders in Ohio.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wouldn't suggest using any type of LGD mix that is a mix outside of LGD breeds.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I very much agree with all the information above! It's a bad idea.

But also, if you are looking for herd protection in the near term you need to find an LGD that's older. They really aren't reliable until over age 2 and if you don't live on your farm there is no way you can train an LGD puppy, it takes a lot of time if there are no adult guarding dogs there to do the job for you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree, not good.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

No no no, if you want something to protection your livestock look for a LGD from proven stock. LGD arent just any dog that will hang out with the goats, its a set of breeds that have been selected and refined over the years to posses the traits needed to bond with and protect livestock. 
Ideally finding an adult dog that is already working if your best idea. They can be expensive and harder to find, but are the easiest to learn with. Puppies take a lot of time, patience and training. As a general rule (there are always exceptions) most LGD are slow maturing and are not left with livestock unsupervised until they are around 18 months to two years. You cant just get a puppy and throw it in with the goats and expect it to work out.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

QNQ Boers said:


> I have the opportunity to purchase a female catahoula/anatolian pup. I was wondering if the anatolian in her would make her a good option for me as an lgd? I have a pretty healthy coyote and population and a oddly large bobcat population near my farm that has the goats on it. And don't want to leave the goats unprotected. Thanks


Do tons of research and ask lotsa questions about the different lgd breeds also. Each breed has its own "thing" kinda sorta. Find a good responsible breeder like others have said. They are worth their weight in gold and will not mind crazy phone calls about what to do for any problems that arise. They will also know their pups and can pick you out your pup for your needs. Because everyone has different needs on their farms.

For example for our farm. We have settled on gp or maremmas. Why. Because we do have visitors, will have young grandchildren visit and my lb dimentia mama that does not go in pens often but she does, farm sitter occasionally and most people that we have talked to with these two have said they will guard the animals more than guard the people. Yes they are protective over their human charges as well. But a toli is more of a guard it all a bit more fiercely. So we are scared that a toli may do a bit more of the guard dog to strangers than we would like. Gp and maremmas will let you know of strangers but a toli is more apt to be a bit more agressive to a stranger rather than the other two. There are always exceptions to this but more often than not this is what we are hearing from others. I prefer the look and coat on a toli necause our winters a relatively mild and hot hot summers but for us the other two seem more suited to our farm. 

A difference i hear about gp and maremmas is that a gp will roam more distances than a maremma if warranted (to keep somethin away from your livestock). So if you have a big acreage unfenced a gp may not be it for you either. You may be gettin phone calls miles away to pick up your dog.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Sfgwife said it very well. 
Research research research and find what works for you. The different breeds have different characteristics. 

We’ve had both Great Pyrenees and anatolians. For us the anatolians work best.


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## Nyjah (Mar 5, 2017)

I found a lot of good anatolian info on this gentleman's site if your interested: http://www.luckyhit.net/anatolia.htm

This cross you are considering sounds like a nightmare. I cant imagine why the breeder is creating this type of puppy, as it only ends badly when you cross two very different working breeds-the animals ends up with conflicting instincts from each breed and can become a neurotic mess and a danger to people. A few examples:

I have a catahoula/pit pound pup mix who was bred for hog hunting. He has the hunting drive of the Catahoula and the tenacious terrier bite of the pit. A pure pit would ignore the goats as they have a very low prey drive. However a pure catahoula will smell and site hunt animals until they corner them and they have to be "Trash broke" using an electric shock collar from chasing cows, deer and goats and bay/cornering them. The catahoulas will run themselves into a heastroke and runs for miles and miles once onto prey. Some are assertive enough they will grab the cornered animal. Amazing hunting dogs, but a terrible LGD. The short answer is that Ive lost two goats to my dog and now he has the wear a muzzle when outside. I tried to get rid of him to a hog hunter, even though I do love him, but my spouse loves him.

We also have another pound pup-he appears to be a golden retriever crossed on an anatolian/pyr. While he has the strong guarding instincts of his LGD heritage, he also has the hyper-ness of the golden and likes to chase the stock and try and play with them, so has had to be strongly reprimanded. He also struggles not to "retrieve" my young pullets. On his first day in the backyard, he left me a pile of 17 half-grown chickens on the porch. He has ended up being a good LGD eventually but it could have gone the other way and will still knab young chickens from time to time and just mouth them to death.

Now in your example if you crossed this hunting instinct of a Catahoula on an Anatolian-already a breed that struggles with the wariness of strangers, guarding based aggression, you are just asking for a ton of trouble. These puppies sound like they will ignore fences to chase prey, have a strong drive to bay and corner, even bite the animal, then be prone to aggressive behaviors towards people they encounter.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I love your breed conflict examples. We have a mutt suspected to be Akita Labrador cross. Talk about a confused teenager! From 1-2 years was VERY precarious... He would run happily to greet someone like a Lab...then bite them when they reached out to pet him! He was a wary Akita that wanted to smell the humans but NOT be touched until after his Akita warm up period. The Labrador in him forgot to keep the safe distance! He was a behavioral mess... Now 12-13 years old and recovered.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

No, never get a LGD cross with a herding breed and think you’re gonna get the best of both worlds. You’re not. Likely you will get the worst of both worlds, unfortunately. 
Especially a Catahoula-as others have said, they are fierce hog dogs, more hunters than herders.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Yes on the breed conflicts! We raise Dobermans, and I’ve made the joke of what the resulting pups would be like if our male doberman bred our female LGD (we would NEVER, and she’s spayed, so it couldn’t happen).

I could only imagine the figurative pups sitting there and flipping a coin to see whether or not they’d attack or protect any livestock they saw. With a Doberman’s high prey drive, I could only assume that would be the winning instinct among the majority of the imaginary litter.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, do not mix different working groups, it is asking for trouble.
Love both breeds, but not together.


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## Nyjah (Mar 5, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> I love your breed conflict examples. We have
> a mutt suspected to be Akita Labrador cross. Talk about a confused teenager! From 1-2 years was VERY precarious... He would run happily to greet someone like a Lab...then bite them when they reached out to pet him! He was a wary Akita that wanted to smell the humans but NOT be touched until after his Akita warm up period. The Labrador in him forgot to keep the safe distance! He was a behavioral mess... Now 12-13 years old and recovered.


Its a real hot button for me. The saddest example was a dog that I took in from a friend who runs a rescue for behaviorally challenged dogs. He had fear bit a man, so the owners gave him up to her. The poor dog was a greyhound/black mouth cur mix. The greyhounds are fearful and timid, but very instinctually sight hunters, so cant be trained very well not to hunt small animals and can be very knee jerk. The curs are exceptional scent hunters, very distrustful of strangers and tend to be aggressive guardians when need be. This particular cross was likely made to be a "strike dog" for hog or coyote hunting, where the dog sits on the back of a jeep smelling the wind, but once it sees/smells prey can run exceptionally fast ahead of the rest of the pack.

He was so sweet and loyal and just wanted to lay next to me and have his face petted gently. but he would tear apart any kennel you put him in, climb any fence, tear holes in doors and get out. Then once out he would run up to strange men and aggressively bite them, then go cower and hide in fear, then be quite nice to them after the fact. It was the utter worst of fear plus aggression plus knee jerk response. He bit three men who entered my home, each time running to hide, then being really nice to them. He finally got out by chewing the side out of an outdoor kennel, jumping through an invisible fence, then climbing our perimeter fence and bit a neighbor in the same pattern, so I euthanized him. I loved him so much, but he was just such a messed up dog due to the confusing behaviors he got from both sides and how it all meshed together. I likely should have euthanized him earlier, but I made excuses for him and tried to manage his behaviors instead  . His name was Wyatt and he was a good, good dog.


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