# Boer kid born with defects



## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

We have a boer kid that was born with some defects. There is no inline breeding so its not genetic and he is 100% boer. His ears are different sizes and one ear is a little larger than a lamancha ear and the other one is like half an ear. His face is formed very odd. His jaw is off centered and his tongue is very long and sticks out. He doesn't have a good latch when nursing because his tongue is crooked. He is a twin and his brother doesnt appear to have any problems. Any ideas as to what could have caused it or anyone ever experience this?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It can be congenital. Looks like wry face. I'm very sorry.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree that it's probably congenital. Sometimes these things do "just happen" for what appears no reason at all.


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

Just a bad egg then?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Probably. Just didn't form right in the womb.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree and so sorry.


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

ccb19 said:


> We have a boer kid that was born with some defects. *There is no inline breeding so its not genetic *and he is 100% boer. His ears are different sizes and one ear is a little larger than a lamancha ear and the other one is like half an ear. His face is formed very odd. His jaw is off centered and his tongue is very long and sticks out. He doesn't have a good latch when nursing because his tongue is crooked. He is a twin and his brother doesnt appear to have any problems. Any ideas as to what could have caused it or anyone ever experience this?


Just because there is no inline breeding, doesn't mean that it is not genetic :cowboy:.

If it is however a one-egged twin, then genetics are unlikely to have played a problem.

Is it fully red coated? Then it's not a Boer Goat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

RhinoWhite said:


> Just because there is no inline breeding, doesn't mean that it is not genetic :cowboy:.
> 
> If it is however a one-eyed twin, then genetics are unlikely to have played a problem.
> 
> Is it fully red coated? Then it's not a Boer Goat.


You don't think this is a boer because of it's color?
Please explain?


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## TrailsEnd (Nov 24, 2013)

A full blood boer can be all red. I have a leaning tree full blood buck and his father is solid red. 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

RhinoWhite is in South Africa and they seem to differentiate solid reds in to a separate breed called Kalahari Reds...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww, OK.

Yes, we also have solid red FB boer, they do exist. :greengrin:


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> You don't think this is a boer because of it's color?
> Please explain?


From the breeding standards


> THE FOLLOWING IS PERMISSIBLE FOR
> STUD PURPOSES:
> HEAD, NECK AND FORE-QUARTERS: Complete *red colouring is permissible up to but not further than the shoulder blade*. On the shoulder it must not go lower than level with the chest.
> BARREL, HINDQUARTER AND BELLY: Only one patch not exceeding 10cm in diameter is permissible.
> ...


I do however believe that full red coat reds are possible from otherwise boer goat parents.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I tho't Boers were first red and they worked to make them white with redbrown face? I read that on an old thread here about the history so I don't know where or the facts on it come from for sure. Our Boer bucks are 99.5% but we had a FullBlood solid Red come out of our traditional buck years ago!


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

I think hes addorable even with his defects. It wont cause him any harm right?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

He will have to be put down. It will cause a lot of harm. He won't be able to eat.


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

Very sad! I'm sorry about your boy


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

Aw but hes just a baby...why kill him because hes different? Sorry i know sometimes this has to happen its just heartbreaking...


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

I believe she said he won't be able to eat. If that is true, then that's a really sad slow death for him. Putting him down would be the humane thing to do.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

RhinoWhite said:


> From the breeding standards
> 
> I do however believe that full red coat reds are possible from otherwise boer goat parents.


 The American Boer Goat association has changed the rule of just white body red head long ago.

Here is a link to the "Fullblood boer" link on it. They are FB Boer.

ABGA http://www.abga.org/pdfs/BREED STANDARDS-FULLBLOOD 7-1-2004.pdf
V. COLORATION
The typical Boer goat is white bodied with a red head, but no preference is given to any hair coloration or color pattern.


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

I know if he cant eat killing him is the best thing for him...i just hate when they have to be killed that is all. He is just a baby...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I can't imagine someone putting him down because he's "different". I imagine they would put him down so he doesn't suffer. If you can't eat, you can't survive/thrive. Starving to death seems a horrible horrible way to die.


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

Im new to all this but he looks like he would be able to open his mouth. Is there no way to tube him and save his life? I have a disabled neighbor who is fed through a g-tube so he can live. I know animals are different im just curious. And heartbroken at the thought of losing a life just as the world was blessed with it.


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> He will have to be put down. It will cause a lot of harm. He won't be able to eat.


I want to clarify that i wasnt meaning for it to sound like that was the only reason he was being killed. I understand that if he is unable to eat then he must be for his own good i was just a little confused thats all. He looks fine,a little different but cute and thriving. I was unaware that his face looking a little different would cause him to be unable to eat. I am new to goats and kidding and defects so i am sorry if i offended you or anyone else here.


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

He is a terrific eater today! He has nursing down better than his brother. His latch just doesn't include a tongue but he eats. We will see how he does but he will become a meat goat if he makes it. As of now we won't be putting him down.


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## Springbett Farm (Jan 5, 2011)

I had a kid born like that. He was slightly odd looking at birth, but as he grew his face grew more and more distorted: he had wry face. He ended up passing away at month old even though he seemed to be doing well.


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

We are thinking his mom might have gotten hit by another doe. He was breech when born and his legs were all tangled up. We are thinking the doe was hit early on and thus he was just the one who got the blunt force of it. We have talked to several people and they have had kids come out with broken legs or even aborted. We are lucky she didn't loose them!


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

Springbett Farm said:


> I had a kid born like that. He was slightly odd looking at birth, but as he grew his face grew more and more distorted: he had wry face. He ended up passing away at month old even though he seemed to be doing well.


Did the kid have the ear problem?


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

RhinoWhite said:


> Just because there is no inline breeding, doesn't mean that it is not genetic :cowboy:.
> 
> If it is however a one-eyed twin, then genetics are unlikely to have played a problem.
> 
> Is it fully red coated? Then it's not a Boer Goat.


Nope he is has both eyes. And yes he is fully red, his mom is also. It is totally normal! Red's are actually very popular around here and people pay a lot of money for them!


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

ccb19 said:


> Nope he is has both eyes. And yes he is fully red, his mom is also. It is totally normal! Red's are actually very popular around here and people pay a lot of money for them!


Oops, I actually meant to say one-egged twin:-D, not one eyed. :dazed:

I mentioned breeding standards for Boer Goats earlier. Fully Red isn't up to spec.


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

Horray! Glad to hear hes eating well. Il be praying he continues to thrive. Hes such a little blessing.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do a search on wry face and read about it. It is very serious. As his bones grow, the face will twist more and more. When you see this in person and see them suffering, you'll understand. 

I'm glad he is eating and doing ok.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

RhinoWhite said:


> Oops, I actually meant to say one-egged twin:-D, not one eyed. :dazed:
> 
> I mentioned breeding standards for Boer Goats earlier. Fully Red isn't up to spec.


We can go on and on about the solid red Fullblood boer vs FB traditional.
But we need to stop it at what it is, we both have such different views on what a 
boer goat is and FB standards, no one is wrong or right. As we both have different rules in the industry evidently.
Here, FB's and color is where it is at, along with traditionals.
Let's just leave it at that.


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

I just quoted the breeding standards. In a certain way they are rather aim, then boundaries. 

That said, I am certain that two high standard boer goat parents (up to spec) can actually get off spring that would be fully red. They are just passing something on that has been recessive previously and hence not shown in the phenotype. I think any discussion on that belongs in a thread of its own (and not into the kids section). 

As for the small goat with the birth defect, I'd be interested how this was caused (genetically or problems during pregnancy). I am aware of human pregnancies were problems during pregnancy can cause this kind of unfortunate problem. So I wonder, if that can happen with goats, too.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Hope the little guy does well for you.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Wry face kids usually can't eat solids, so even though he is nursing, like Karen said, he will most likely get worse and eventually die from starvation.


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## Springbett Farm (Jan 5, 2011)

ccb19 said:


> Did the kid have the ear problem?


Not quite like yours. My kid's ears were slightly lop sided. His whole face started out slightly lop sided and his mouth was a bit twisted. It just got worse as he grew. But he acted fine up until he passed away. It makes me wonder if wry faced kids have other defects, like heart defects, perhaps.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

As long as his life is happy, the length of it doesn't matter. I advise that you put him down at the first sign of pain or discomfort. Good luck with the little guy...


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## ccb19 (Apr 15, 2014)

He is still doing good! He is the biggest out of all 6 babies born the same day. He loves his milk!


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## shirley (Apr 11, 2014)

So glad hes continuing to strive  he sure seems to be a fighter! Deffinatley has a large will to live


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