# Lamancha purebred out of Lamanch X Boer??



## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

So alot of people have told me with Saanen Dairy goat crosses that if you cross breed them to boer you cant get the Saanen kids bred back to Pure, i was wondering if thats the same with Lamancha goats? because we have been given an offer on a little nubian/boer cross Lamancha doeling we dont know for how much yet but before i decide i definately want to get her is there any way i can breed her to a purebred buck and bring her kids back to purbred Lamancha? my mom wont pay for a purebred because they are too much :/ so my main question can i breed out the boer and return a goat to purebred if you know what i mean?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That ADGA doesn't accept meat crosses as experimentals. If you're gong to be an honest and ethical breeder, then no, you can never breed the Boer or Kiko or Fainter out of a Dairy Goat breed.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

No because boer's are a meat breed, ADGA doesn't allow crosses with meat breeds or pygmys to be registered. If she was a cross between two dairy breeds you could breed up


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

You always run the chance of throwing a mixed kid even if it would look like a pure mancha. And if you would sell a kid as a purebred because it looked like one would be unethical to whomever is buying and out pops a kid that looks like a boer.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

You also can never get back to "purebred' just american . ADGA also doesnt allow any standard breeds to be registered if they contain nigerian blood (on top of pygmy, and meat breeds), and no "American " or cross bred nigerians are allowed.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

okay... i just wanted to know if i could take the boer and nubian out of the genes by continuous breeding to a lamancha purebred buck .... i didnt want to know if ADGA would take a cross i already know they wont but thanks to all who replied its very clear the answer is no.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2012)

While you may not be able to register the goat who cares.
The answer to your question is yes and no. Pure bred animals have never been crossed there for you can never make a cross PB again. But you can breed that goat back to full blood after 3 breedings 
She is half now a PB buck would make the next gen 3/4 the next 7/8 the next 15/16 which is close. Hope this answers your question. And while her kids will never be Lamanche per say they will give kids that are meatier and more readily sale able. I have several 1/2 Boer Lamanche does and they are some of the best producers of fast growing kids wouldn't trade them for a herd of PB Lamanches.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

Sideplaner said:


> While you may not be able to register the goat who cares.
> The answer to your question is yes and no. Pure bred animals have never been crossed there for you can never make a cross PB again. But you can breed that goat back to full blood after 3 breedings
> She is half now a PB buck would make the next gen 3/4 the next 7/8 the next 15/16 which is close. Hope this answers your question. And while her kids will never be Lamanche per say they will give kids that are meatier and more readily sale able. I have several 1/2 Boer Lamanche does and they are some of the best producers of fast growing kids wouldn't trade them for a herd of PB Lamanches.


thank you! lol yes this helped majorly but sadly we arent getting the boer cross because the people want to keep her  but they have a purebred coming idk if we will be getting that one though just depends lol i kind of liked the boer cross because they got the gopher ears sooooo cute! Lol


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Sideplaner said:


> While you may not be able to register the goat who cares.
> The answer to your question is yes and no. Pure bred animals have never been crossed there for you can never make a cross PB again. But you can breed that goat back to full blood after 3 breedings
> She is half now a PB buck would make the next gen 3/4 the next 7/8 the next 15/16 which is close. Hope this answers your question. And while her kids will never be Lamanche per say they will give kids that are meatier and more readily sale able. I have several 1/2 Boer Lamanche does and they are some of the best producers of fast growing kids wouldn't trade them for a herd of PB Lamanches.


You got that the wrong way round. Full blood is 100% so you cant breed back up to fullblood. You can however breed up to 'purebred' status, which I cant remember off the top of my head and it varies with different breed societies and breeds, but its like 97 or 98%? At this point they are considered purebred.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Yeah, with dairy breeds, purebred is 100%, and then we have american for goats who aren't quite pure. I never did get why it's different with meat breeds, but it is. Still, the point remains the same-you can't get a pure goat out of a cross.


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## yellowstone (Jan 9, 2011)

For dairy breeds, you can breed up to "American" status which is considered 100% for purposes of calculating progeny's percentages. For example, an 87.5% American Alpine's children are calculated as if the dam were 100% Alpine. However, any of her progeny will be American, not purebred.

EXCEPT for LaManchas, which have an open herd book. So after three generations of American, they are registered as purebred. So for LaManchas it is possible to breed up to purebred status.

This means that I am pretty sure it is POSSIBLE to eventually get a Boer cross into the purebred LaMancha herdbook. (You take a LaMancha-conforming Boer cross doe and record her as a grade with no ancestry -- breed her up to half American, 3/4 American, American -- then after 3 generations as American they go in the purebred book.) However as others have said it would certainly be unethical to record a LaMancha grade when you know for sure there is meat in her bloodlines.

I'm wondering what people think about that possibility? Seems like it could happen inadvertently. You have a LaMancha X Boer (unregistered obviously), breed it to LaMancha for a few generations. So maybe you sell a baby that is 7/8 LaMancha, 1/8 Boer to just be a backyard milker. Later on the buyer gets the idea to register her doe, doesn't know any better, and registers her as a grade LaMancha... personally I am not a purebred stickler but for the people who are, does that make it seem like the Recorded Grade or open herdbook programs are problematic?


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I wouldn't say so, but then again, I don't see whats so inherently wrong with some meat background in a dairy animal, either. I mean,i can see why some people would be against it, and I can ase why someone wouldn't like the recorded grade or open herd book, but I personally think both are excellent tools for continually widening the gene pool and preventing breeds from eventually becoming too closely related. (this may not be the best reason, but it's my opinion)


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2012)

Mainly we are against it, because it is AGAINST ADGA RULES!!!!!!!!! It can get you and all your animals kicked out. I can see that it occasionally happens by accident, but any adga member doing it intentionally is performing unethically..end of story. Please, dont reg your boer x with A DAIRY CLUB . ABGA would be happy to register them as percentages.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

yellowstone said:


> For dairy breeds, you can breed up to "American" status which is considered 100% for purposes of calculating progeny's percentages. For example, an 87.5% American Alpine's children are calculated as if the dam were 100% Alpine. However, any of her progeny will be American, not purebred.
> 
> EXCEPT for LaManchas, which have an open herd book. So after three generations of American, they are registered as purebred. So for LaManchas it is possible to breed up to purebred status.
> 
> ...


 you know i had a hunch that you could do that. I never really look to show my lamancha because idk how to show, although im interested in it im not that interested in it lol. I purely just want to use my lamancha and her kids after her for milking and profit purposes. I just would like to register the future kids so it was nice this did help im just not sure if you mean its possible to but not until theres three generations of my does line? (which i need more explanation on the three generations  because right now im like so the third kid she throws when i breed her to a lamancha pure buck . lol)


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

J-Basqo Nubians said:


> Mainly we are against it, because it is AGAINST ADGA RULES!!!!!!!!! It can get you and all your animals kicked out. I can see that it occasionally happens by accident, but any adga member doing it intentionally is performing unethically..end of story. Please, dont reg your boer x with A DAIRY CLUB . ABGA would be happy to register them as percentages.


 well heck  if i can get them registered as a percentage id love to do that but i think im gonna make my own organization one of these days for Cross breeds only. or something lol im purty sure thats gonna run into the ground but id have to see how many people would like that i doubt very many people would but eh. lol


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

TheMixedBag said:


> I wouldn't say so, but then again, I don't see whats so inherently wrong with some meat background in a dairy animal, either. I mean,i can see why some people would be against it, and I can ase why someone wouldn't like the recorded grade or open herd book, but I personally think both are excellent tools for continually widening the gene pool and preventing breeds from eventually becoming too closely related. (this may not be the best reason, but it's my opinion)


its not just because of ADGA being against it its because the meat in the dairy in my opinion does not make a very good show goat it wouldnt look that much like a diary goat is supposed to right? so thats why ADGA is against it. i dont blame anyone a bulky looking doe thats supposed to be dairy would be odd lol. but then again it would be nice to show it  but im only looking for milking and profit purposes


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

ADGA does dairy goats only so it would make sense they wouldn't allow any meat breeds, crosses, or mixes into their registry.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I know it makes sense and I'm not knocking it, it's there for a reason, I've just always been of the opinion that a bit of outside genetics never hurt anything. Still, it's highly unethical to be sneaking in meat genetics into an organization that clearly does not allow it.

I had a nice looking saanen boer cross that could have passed as a pure dairy doe with a little extra meat on her bones. She was still feminine and dairy, just not as dairy as a pure doe. Of course, my o opinion may also be influenced by the fact that a good amount of nice looking dairy does font do jack in the milk pail because people are do focused in how they look instead of how they perform (it's one reason I love the saanen breeder's association), so I have a bit of a tendency to overlook a doe's appearance for her performance.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

TheMixedBag said:


> I know it makes sense and I'm not knocking it, it's there for a reason, I've just always been of the opinion that a bit of outside genetics never hurt anything. Still, it's highly unethical to be sneaking in meat genetics into an organization that clearly does not allow it.
> 
> I had a nice looking saanen boer cross that could have passed as a pure dairy doe with a little extra meat on her bones. She was still feminine and dairy, just not as dairy as a pure doe. Of course, my o opinion may also be influenced by the fact that a good amount of nice looking dairy does font do jack in the milk pail because people are do focused in how they look instead of how they perform (it's one reason I love the saanen breeder's association), so I have a bit of a tendency to overlook a doe's appearance for her performance.


who said they were sneaking in meat genes in the ADGA? O.O lol. however you know i never really look at a does looks i look at her bag after shes kidded if shes got a big one but a nice equal bag ill definately take one of her kids that are a doe lol. Speaking of which i got the little Lamancha/nubian X boer ^_^ shes so cute like a bag of skittles haha. shes got alot of Boer in her so like right when we gave the lady her money for her she said her bag when she gets older might be smaller but im going to pull all kids off of her *shrug* im hoping her bag will be big D: lol just because we bottle feed alot lol. Saanen Breeders Association? for like all Saanen breeders? we have a Saanen boer cross doe whos pregnant she wouldnt pass as a regular pure though shes got floppy ears lol


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

HybridMustang said:


> TheMixedBag said:
> 
> 
> > I know it makes sense and I'm not knocking it, it's there for a reason, I've just always been of the opinion that a bit of outside genetics never hurt anything. Still, it's highly unethical to be sneaking in meat genetics into an organization that clearly does not allow it.
> ...


When do we get pics? :greengrin:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I would certainly hope nobody is, but I wouldn't put it past some people I know around my area.

It's the National Saanen Breeders Association. They have a yearly award for the doe who does the best in both the show ring and in milk production.

I wouldn't pay as much attention to a doe with a big udder unless I knew she produced like she looks like she's supposed to. Far too many does have huge drool worthy udders that don't milk worth a crap. (please remember I'm not knocking show animals, just noting what I see far too often)


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2012)

I am saying this with a sincere light heart, I hope it is not read as snobby...so please dont take it that way. 
First off, I think a crossbred club would be fun for pet people!! So if you have the bug, DO IT!!!

However, the ADGA purpose of registering a goat and keeping its pedigree, is to improve the breed and keep track of our genetics. Not just to sell them for more "because they are registered". If you have intentions of having registered dairy goats, then start out with nice registered dairy goats. Buying scrub goats and registering them with a club soley to sell offspring "with papers" is actually doing us all a disservice. Maybe those goats were sold without papers because they were not worthy of them etc. Us who are breeding and registering with ADGA are weeding out, breeding up and trying to improve, and people that just register a cull goat (now cull doesnt mean it is a bad goat, or not loved, just genetics that arent what we are striving for), pull our hard work back into the ground when those poor genes we are trying to eliminate are getting pooled back in. The purpose in those american and percentage registry programs we are talking about are for us to be able to introduce a trait we want (even if it is another breed) to IMPROVE something, or add to, and still be able to work back out of a "crossbred" status. 
So if you do intend on registering something, please think of all us breeders that are trying hard to improve and truly evaluate if the goat at hand is "contributing" something positive to the breed, or meets breed standards and is worthy of registering, not just something that will degrade generations of hard work


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

TheMixedBag said:


> I would certainly hope nobody is, but I wouldn't put it past some people I know around my area.
> 
> It's the National Saanen Breeders Association. They have a yearly award for the doe who does the best in both the show ring and in milk production.
> 
> I wouldn't pay as much attention to a doe with a big udder unless I knew she produced like she looks like she's supposed to. Far too many does have huge drool worthy udders that don't milk worth a crap. (please remember I'm not knocking show animals, just noting what I see far too often)


haha yeah i cant understand that the people we got her from actually showed me her mom be milked she gave alot that was awesome


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

J-Basqo Nubians said:


> I am saying this with a sincere light heart, I hope it is not read as snobby...so please dont take it that way.
> First off, I think a crossbred club would be fun for pet people!! So if you have the bug, DO IT!!!
> 
> However, the ADGA purpose of registering a goat and keeping its pedigree, is to improve the breed and keep track of our genetics. Not just to sell them for more "because they are registered". If you have intentions of having registered dairy goats, then start out with nice registered dairy goats. Buying scrub goats and registering them with a club soley to sell offspring "with papers" is actually doing us all a disservice. Maybe those goats were sold without papers because they were not worthy of them etc. Us who are breeding and registering with ADGA are weeding out, breeding up and trying to improve, and people that just register a cull goat (now cull doesnt mean it is a bad goat, or not loved, just genetics that arent what we are striving for), pull our hard work back into the ground when those poor genes we are trying to eliminate are getting pooled back in. The purpose in those american and percentage registry programs we are talking about are for us to be able to introduce a trait we want (even if it is another breed) to IMPROVE something, or add to, and still be able to work back out of a "crossbred" status.
> So if you do intend on registering something, please think of all us breeders that are trying hard to improve and truly evaluate if the goat at hand is "contributing" something positive to the breed, or meets breed standards and is worthy of registering, not just something that will degrade generations of hard work


i just might start that club lol but yeah i know that but at the same time i want to be able ot make products like cheese, lotion, milk, and other goat milk production and idk if your goats have to be registered for that but if not hey thats cool  lol


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

goatiegurl*Oh said:


> HybridMustang said:
> 
> 
> > TheMixedBag said:
> ...


 soon we have yet to get a camera though all we have is a video camera the flip it -_- lol so i have videos of the new baby on my facebook if anyone wants the link just let me know ^_^ . as of right now we have a doe who was been in labor for 18 hours -_- shes 75% boer and the father is Purebred Boer idk what the babies will be but we are sure they will be cute XD lol.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

HybridMustang said:


> i just might start that club lol but yeah i know that but at the same time i want to be able ot make products like cheese, lotion, milk, and other goat milk production and idk if your goats have to be registered for that but if not hey thats cool  lol


Those papers have NO effect on all the things you want to do.  I do ALL of those (except the lotion, so far.... lol) with my BOER x Alpine!! Cheese, butter, soap, ice cream, pudding, drinking, etc. In fact my first batch of cheese was using milk from a registered doe....... but she was registered 50% Boer! lol!!! She was actually 75% Boer and 25% Oberhasli!

I think the only thing it might have an effect on is if you wanted to participate in a milk test with the association, but as far as actually using the goat as a dairy animal, the papers will tell you the milking ability and history behind the goat if the ancestors were recorded for those traits and tested but they are a record of that, and have nothing to do with making the animal itself able to produce so you can do all those things.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

WarPony said:


> HybridMustang said:
> 
> 
> > i just might start that club lol but yeah i know that but at the same time i want to be able ot make products like cheese, lotion, milk, and other goat milk production and idk if your goats have to be registered for that but if not hey thats cool  lol
> ...


h okay  thanks


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

HybridMustang said:


> as of right now we have a doe who was been in labor for 18 hours -_- shes 75% boer and the father is Purebred Boer idk what the babies will be but we are sure they will be cute XD lol.


I know this is much too late but I really hope you helped this doe - 18 hours is much too long to be labouring without having the kids. Please let us know your doe and babies are alright.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

keren said:


> HybridMustang said:
> 
> 
> > as of right now we have a doe who was been in labor for 18 hours -_- shes 75% boer and the father is Purebred Boer idk what the babies will be but we are sure they will be cute XD lol.
> ...


it was the first stage of labor (yes we did think that she was in labor because she didnt do this before or at least we didnt see her doing this. but we were wrong.) Stage one labor is where they go into labor but its not an active labor. They are just uncomfortable and its an uncomfortable labor but not an active labor. so shes fine but shes been doing either some more of the first stage (she shouldnt be) or shes pushing right now because we have heard her groan, labor breathe, and then sort of grunt like shes pushing. shes not open at all just a bit open like an inch so she should be fine and should deliever by 3 am in the morning if not she will probably deliever at 10 or 11 am or whenever she feels is the warmest to bring her kids into the world, we are watching her like a hawk, she has til march 5th to deliever and then after that she has til march tenth to deliever the kids if she doesnt we will try to bring in a vet or call a vet to see if theres something wrong. I am sure she will be fine as she has to deliever the babies some time.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2012)

OF COURSE you can do all those things without papers!!!!!!!! And you can even go on DHIR and be on milk test with unregistered goats (there will be no club that keeps track and scores them, but you will have official records for you and your customers).
If there is something particular you want to strive for and it isnt ADGA then DO IT!!! Its all about what you want to do with your herd and if showing and registering isnt one of them, THAT IS TOTALLY OK!!!! But I still encourage you to not buy "bad" genetics. Some of the things we breed for are longevity, correct feet and legs and body to hold up to carrying all those kids and a strong productive udder to make lots of milk and hold up to age. Those structural things we breed for are not JUST to look purdy in the show ring. Good conformation and genticits still ARE things you want to look for to avoid wasting $$ on an unthrifty goat that wont make your feed and time worthwhile and needs all kinds of fancy grains and dewormers and "extras" to surivive  So papers arent important. But make sure you get a good, strong, healthy nicely built goat!


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

J-Basqo Nubians said:


> OF COURSE you can do all those things without papers!!!!!!!! And you can even go on DHIR and be on milk test with unregistered goats (there will be no club that keeps track and scores them, but you will have official records for you and your customers).
> If there is something particular you want to strive for and it isnt ADGA then DO IT!!! Its all about what you want to do with your herd and if showing and registering isnt one of them, THAT IS TOTALLY OK!!!! But I still encourage you to not buy "bad" genetics. Some of the things we breed for are longevity, correct feet and legs and body to hold up to carrying all those kids and a strong productive udder to make lots of milk and hold up to age. Those structural things we breed for are not JUST to look purdy in the show ring. Good conformation and genticits still ARE things you want to look for to avoid wasting $$ on an unthrifty goat that wont make your feed and time worthwhile and needs all kinds of fancy grains and dewormers and "extras" to surivive  So papers arent important. But make sure you get a good, strong, healthy nicely built goat!


 sounds great thanks ^_^ i just got to milk a goat for the official first time  without we had a momma who had her babies today  but i will keep everything above in my mind ^_^


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## CluckyJay (Aug 3, 2011)

You could always go the route of not bothering to register your animals. You could breed for what you're looking for like a meatier dairy goat. Just make sure when you list to sale, people know what they are getting.


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## HybridMustang (Jul 29, 2011)

CluckyJay said:


> You could always go the route of not bothering to register your animals. You could breed for what you're looking for like a meatier dairy goat. Just make sure when you list to sale, people know what they are getting.


yeah true but i may just end up getting a purebred doe some day and registering her if i can  or her babies whichever lol. XD O.O i better start saving up. but my Lamancha/nubian boer doeling omgsh i have fallen in love with her  so idk i might just forget the idea of registering her and sell her babies and keep her shes just to sweet to top  lol


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## CluckyJay (Aug 3, 2011)

:hi5:


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## goat (Sep 1, 2011)

I sold a boer cross doe as a unregistered family milk goat. Now lets say the buyer breeds her back to lamancha and sells her doe kids as unregistered lamancha does. This goes on for a few more generations until someone decides to breed to registered stock and register their kids as 50%. Because no one can trace these does that are registered as 50% back to their boer past there is no proof that they even have boer in their ancestry.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I sold a boer cross doe as a unregistered family milk goat. Now lets say the buyer breeds her back to lamancha and sells her doe kids as unregistered lamancha does. This goes on for a few more generations until someone decides to breed to registered stock and register their kids as 50%. Because no one can trace these does that are registered as 50% back to their boer past there is no proof that they even have boer in their ancestry.


This is a very old thread but Yes, 
That will be called Native of Appearance..the person would need another ADGA member to sign off on the goat which should have all the characteristics of the breed she is registering for...in this case Lamancha.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> > I sold a boer cross doe as a unregistered family milk goat. Now lets say the buyer breeds her back to lamancha and sells her doe kids as unregistered lamancha does. This goes on for a few more generations until someone decides to breed to registered stock and register their kids as 50%. Because no one can trace these does that are registered as 50% back to their boer past there is no proof that they even have boer in their ancestry.
> 
> 
> This is a very old thread but Yes,
> That will be called Native of Appearance..the person would need another ADGA member to sign off on the goat which should have all the characteristics of the breed she is registering for...in this case Lamancha.


Yes, I know it's an old post, but...

Actually, an unregistered/unknown parent and a registered parent gives you a 50% registered grade animal.

Native on Appearance is used to register an animal when both of the parents are unknown/unregistered, but who meets all breed standards of appearance.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Actually, an unregistered/unknown parent and a registered parent gives you a 50% registered grade animal.


Yes we did this with Rosie...she is pure bred Lamancha but no papers...registered her NOA and bred her to a registered Lamancha Buck and her kids are 50% Lamancha...sadly buck kids from NOA or Grade Does cannot be registered :sad:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

HybridMustang said:


> thank you! lol yes this helped majorly but sadly we arent getting the boer cross because the people want to keep her  but they have a purebred coming idk if we will be getting that one though just depends lol i kind of liked the boer cross because they got the gopher ears sooooo cute! Lol


Like this one ?


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

goat said:


> I sold a boer cross doe as a unregistered family milk goat. Now lets say the buyer breeds her back to lamancha and sells her doe kids as unregistered lamancha does. This goes on for a few more generations until someone decides to breed to registered stock and register their kids as 50%. Because no one can trace these does that are registered as 50% back to their boer past there is no proof that they even have boer in their ancestry.


Goats with Nigerian, Pygmy, boer etc cannot be registered even NOA with adga when crossed with a dairy goat.

They may not have proof but if someone did and reported I think adga would disqualify those animals and progeny and possible not allow the breeder to register with adga anymore. I forget what the rule states.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, I have to go bed. I'll explain this tomorrow afternoon. It does work...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Goats with Nigerian, Pygmy, boer etc cannot be registered even NOA with adga when crossed with a dairy goat.


Correct. Boer, pygmy and I believe unregistered Nigerian can not be registered with ADGA at all...HOWEVER, How I understand on NOA, and I may have it all wrong lol....

if I had a boer/lamancha cross and bred her to a lamancha buck, they have a doe kid which I again breed to a lamancha buck and her doe kid is bred to a registered lamancha buck, Ive all but bred the boer out and can indeed register their doe kid as NOA...If I choose to. Now lets say you buy a doe who looks to be pure bred Nubian..and you have no info on her breeding..whether a meat breed runs through her vein..but decide to register NOA,..now lets say, even though bred to registered Nubian buck, her kid looks more Boer...then even though mom is NOA and dad is registered does not mean that offspring should be registered ...this is where we need to be upright. The NOA is a great tool to get good stock registered and build a quality herd from unregistered but well bred animals..


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Can DNA testing determine if a meat breed was crossed with a dairy breed? I was wondering if 4 or 5 generations removed from a boer x lamancha cross (or whatever), could it be determined? I know someone that has a really stocky
"old style" Nubian that sure could have been crossed with a Boer in generations past. Maybe DNA could clear it up?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sure DNA could help...Some nubian are large and meaty...many refer to them as a duel breed....we all know past genes can pop up any time in any generation, but usually by 4-5 generation you are pretty safe...and each breeder need to be honest in registration....the whole idea is to improve our breeds. For ex: I have had bucks born that I band as weathers even though come from nice OLD blood line but for some off reason throw off square hips, or other faults...


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Tthis is what i found on the adga website. i think we shouldnt knowingly break the rules.
I don't think you should have to DNA test to prove it though if a doe of unknown parentage meets breed standards.
I'm just against purposefully trying to sneak around rules or encourage new goat people to start out fraudulently. Kwim.


ADGA currently has herd books for the following standard size breeds; Alpines, LaManchas, Nubians, Oberhaslis, Saanens, Sables and Toggenburgs. These seven standard size breeds may be registered in the Purebred and American herd books for their breed. Crosses of these seven breeds may be recorded in the Recorded Grade Herd books or the Experimental Herd books. Offspring of Nigerian Dwarves crossed with the standard size breeds are not eligible for recordation in any ADGA herd books. Offspring of Boers, Angoras, Kinders, Cashmere, Pygmies, Fainting or any other breed not recognized by ADGA that are crossed with any of the eight ADGA recognized breeds cannot be recorded in any part of the ADGA Herd books including the Grade and Experimental Herd books.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I'm just against purposefully trying to sneak around rules or encourage new goat people to start out fraudulently. Kwim.


I totally agree... I would never knowingly falsify papers or encourage one to to do. Registering as NOA is legal and with in ADGA rules. when the rules states "OFF SPRING"...this is a one to one cross such as a boer to lamancha for ex. What we are talking about is the Breeding that offspring to a pure bred lamancha buck and continue that line of breeding until you get standards met...then register that goat NOA ...then once again..continue breeding to registered Bucks to work that blood line to American Lamancha. This can take several Generations. Would I register a known 50/50 boer lamancha NOA just because she looks Lamancha? No. That would be working the system. When folks cheat the system they end up messing it up for those who follow the rules. 
its no different from this statement 


> I don't think you should have to DNA test to prove it though if a doe of unknown parentage meets breed standards.


the whole idea is that the Goat to be registered NOA meets the breeds standard...its not cheating the system..its working with in the system. Some times you have a nice dairy goat who meets the standard of her breed and you don't have info on her parents...whose to say grand dad isn't boer??

I hope that makes sense...its not about cheating the system..but with honesty...working with the system. Sadly there will always be those who will cheat. But the most follow the rules


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

LaManchas are still considered in development, so yes, after so many generations of Mancha breedings, you will get purebred status until they close the books. However, you can never use meat or miniature breeds in any ADGA crosses


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

DNA testing is to verify or find out parentage. You need a hair sample from the goat and both parents to do a DNA test. It won't provide info. on breed makeup. It's good to use if you aren't sure who sired a litter, used AI and want to confirm the sire, etc.


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