# Discussion In Wry face/tail



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ive been reading...( Im always reading goats stuff lol) And came across the topic of Wry face and wry tail....I have heard of wry face and knew it was a genetic fault...but never heard of wry tail....and what I can cant confirm is whether the same genetic default causes both the wry face and the wry tail....I have a saanen doe of good breeding who has what I think might be wry tail...it stays off to one side...I would never want to purposely breed a bad trait....but from what I read it is wry tail if it has to do with the fusing of the vertebrae while a tail may have just been damaged while in mom...so how does one tell??
here is the best info I found but still inconclusive ...so thought I would hear from all my expert friends here on Goat spot : ) 
https://archive.org/stream/frequencyofmodeo00ewin/frequencyofmodeo00ewin_djvu.txt


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

What little info I can offer: I have a buck, a singleton, who has a wry tale but not a wry face. His tail snaps up to his back like a normal goat's, but it bends to the right in doing so. His four offspring all have straight tails. 

I haven't read that link yet, but don't know either if this wry tail thing is genetic--if so, whether dominant or recessive--or if it happened in utero.

ETA, having a quick glance in another forum, someone says there that it's only considered a wry tail if it twists from the base, and not just toward the tip. I don't know how much of an authority that person is, nor does it answer your question.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I have a mother-daughter duo that I purchased a while ago when we didn't know much about goats. Both have what we would consider "wry tails". The daughter, unbeknownst to me at the time, is quite inbred since her dam and sire were full-siblings. Both does have never thrown wry tails since we've owned them. And they have many kids on the ground. I have never seen it passed on with that generation either. 

I believe that wry tails are recessive due to the fact that , in my experience, the trait has never been passed on unless inbreeding occurred. I am sure that isn't true for every case, but I do not have much experience with it other than the two does I own.

Also, none of them have "wry faces". I luckily haven't had to deal with that before. *knock on wood*


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thats good to know..this will be my Does first breeding with us..i hate to pass an undesirable trait....My biggest concern is if this trait is linked to wry face..the tail I can deal with..no health issue there just not show quality but wry face is a whole different ball game...


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I have only seen one goat with a "wry face" in my life this far (owned by a friend), but I haven't seen him in person. I don't believe he even had a "wry tail". I think they are unrelated traits. No need to worry!


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

sometimes wry tail is caused by a mineral deficiency not a genetic trait -


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wry tail is twisted at the base of the tail, not the end or elsewhere.

If you feel the tail itself, you will feel a crooked part at the base, that is where the wry tail comes in.

If it doesn't have a bend at the base and is basically straight all the way up, but lightly curved and can be gently straightened manually, it is not considered wry tail. Wry tail is a deformity, not just a soft curve, like pregnant Does and some bucks do occasionally when in rut. 
Deficiency is another reason they lay over gently. Hope that makes sense.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

And now I am Googling "wry face". Never heard of it!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Hmmmm. There was some interesting info here: http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f19/what-wry-face-goats-28893/


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hubby and I took a good feel of Regina's tail..its not fused in place..hers is held more to the side..but we can move it..and today it was straight out...so maybe not wry tail...but interesting subject just the same...all species of animal can have wry face/tail...even chickens ..


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I've got to grab a photo of one of my doe's tail, Sandy. After the recent discussions on selenium deficiencies with bent tails, I began giving her monthly selenium/E gel. But then after paying attention more closely, hers does not look like a selenium deficient tail and I considered wry tail. I'll have to manipulate it as discussed above and see how it feels. 

I have read that wry face develops/worsens as the goat ages - so it may not be apparent in a newborn kid but will become more apparent with age? I have only seen it on a local Facebook group of goats for sale, and unfortunately the seller didn't know. I made a passing comment about it on the breeding buck he was selling and he indicated it had not been passed to any of the kids, but the kids were still quite young.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I ook pix of Reginas tail...
From what I read..and theres not a lot of info that I found...the vertebrae at the tail head would be fused..unmovable...Regina's is very flexible and she has even held it straight on her own..so Im not sure it is wry.....as fro wry face, yes it progresses with age....and not noticable at birth


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Sandy's is similar to Regina's but curved closely against her rump and curved to the right. Always pinned up like she has seen a strange dog.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have read some wry tails do fold up over the rump nice and tight


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> wry tail is twisted at the base of the tail, not the end or elsewhere.
> 
> If you feel the tail itself, you will feel a crooked part at the base, that is where the wry tail comes in.
> 
> ...


I know this is an old post, but I was hoping to find more info.

I have a doe kid who was born with her tail turned to her right side. It lays tight against her hip and upward. I have been able to manipulate it up until last night. It now feels like a broken tail where it attaches to the body. She cries when I have tried to straighten it. I don't have a pic, but will get one tonight.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She was born with it that way, could be wry tail unfortunately.
It would feel out of sink, bent and doesn't feel straight boned when you try to feel it.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

This is from the Anglo Nubian breed standard: "Differing from the ideal (found & recognised): Horned. Wry tail."

The Anglo Nubian was created in the UK by crossing sires from the Jumna Pari, Zaraibi and Chitral breeds from the Middle East and India, over the Old English goat and later with Swiss breed does. The Chitral breed had a tail that curled to one side.

I have a doe whose tail curls to one side and currently is rearing triplet daughters, two of which have tails that curl to one side but when it suits them to, all three can straighten their tail out.

camooweal​


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Here is a video of her. I feel a space between tail, and base, as if it was either broken, or perhaps a spina bifida type thing. Or wry...


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, can't upload the video. Here are pics.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You feel a space and not an actual curve kinda thing going on at the base of the tail?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> You feel a space and not an actual curve kinda thing going on at the base of the tail?


Yes, a hole that I can put the width of my finger in.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, that doesn't sound like Wry, it sounds to be separation of the bone, either by a break or possible hard labor accident.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I had my doe xrayed. The last vertebrae is malformed. Neither vet feel that it is wry tail, but aren't sure what to call it. 

I'll try to get a copy of the xray to upload.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh wow, still no answer.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Here are xray of my doe kid. Multiple vets and judges feel it is not wry tail, just a malformed vertebrae. So hoping to show her in the near future. Her tail is more straight now that she is older. Once I clip her for a show, I'll post pics.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks for posting the X-rays.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is good news then.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> That is good news then.


Yes!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awesome.


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