# Night BAD NEWS



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

This is Night, She is my last doe to kid for a while, I have one more due in May, that I guess the buck felt she looked lonely one day so he thought he would take care of things. lol

Anyway she was due on the 26th, (that was 150 days). These were taken on the 29th.

















I tell you I have never had them all go over their due dates like this. :GAAH:

I know that is her due date because I hand bred her. She is getting a bag but like all the others it is hardly there until they kid then it just appears. :hair:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

are you absolutely - 100% positive on the breed date? Not accidently on the wrong month (I say this from experience - LOL!)

If not - I would induce her ... don't want those babies getting to big.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

No I know the date for sure.

ALL of my goats have gone to about 160 days this year. OK, almost all. I think I had one that was 152.

She is not in any stress or anything. She is acting just fine, almost like WHAT? What do you ant me to do?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

LOL! No - that is cause momma (you) is having all the stress for her - LOL!

Is it normal for the Cashmere to wait till 160?


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

I've had more than record numbers go over their due dates lately too. Must be the year, something going on to cause it.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*



kelebek said:


> LOL! No - that is cause momma (you) is having all the stress for her - LOL!
> 
> Is it normal for the Cashmere to wait till 160?


 Well, I have never had this many go this later before, sure one every now and then but this many? :shrug: :GAAH:

We are going to have a weather change tomorrow night (Wednesday), so that might set her into labor.


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*



sweetgoats said:


> We are going to have a weather change tomorrow night (Wednesday), so that might set her into labor.


Here's hoping for Wednesday night then. Come on Night-we want to see babies! :wink:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

Well anything yet? I know today is wednesday and not the night but I have to ask anyway --- Cant wait ot see if seh continues your girls streek


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

Well, still nothing at all. The storm is to come tonight, but I would not really call it a storm, it is just going to be cooler, and I guess it is possible to have some snow.

I looked at my breeding records this morning because I just can not believe she is this late.

That is the only date she was with the Buck, August 30th. I hand bred her. She is not in any stress, she is running and jumping and playing with the others, fights for the food, getting a bag, not huge yet but non of my goats had a bag before they delivered. She is open a bit and really loose. SO I am going CRAZY. :hair: :hair:

Stacey, I am not sure about the girls or not. I smelled her head a few weeks ago and WOW was it a buck smell, so I figured only boys, then I smelled it again and I really did not smell hardly any, so I am hoping ofr at least one doe. I need one more because I have deposits and I need one more to fill my deposits.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night at 156 days. will she ever kid?*

My goodness! At least you know for sure that she can't make you wait another week! A couple days maybe. Hope you get 2 adorable little cuddley girls from her.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

Well this morning as I went out to feed and get the goats bedded down and ready for the storm that is going to hit us, (Nothing like on the East). Anyway, I was outside doing somethings to get one of the goats and her babies in another place, bt I heard some yelling BBBBAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH, over and over. So as I went in to feed them inside she would not move to eat her feed. SO not her.

Anyway she is up and down and of course she is in a corner where the camera doesn't really show. But because of the storm I new she would finally decide to kid for me. 

FINALLY she I will be done until May. :leap:


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## farmergal (Jun 19, 2009)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

Yay, congrats that she's finally getting down to business! Looking forward to hearing progress reports!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

thats great to hear Lori


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

great news....can't wait... :hug: :greengrin:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

woohoo! how is Night coming along?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

Hoping she's given you 2 pretty girls...if not 3 and that all is going well.


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## BetterBuckskins (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

Hope everything is going well.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Night 163 day and FINALLY in labor*

Well, it was not a good outcome at all. After what I thought was to long to be going on, I went into her and all I could get was one foot. Ok, finally two. C***, where is the head. It was turned back and stuck. I mean really stuck. I sat there and prayed the to the lord to help me. I have never had this problem before. After a horrible time I finally got my finger in the babies mouth and was able to get it turned. I pulled out a big beautiful DOE. DEAD. I did mouth to mouth and everything. I was sick.

BUT the thing that was really weird she she had 4 teeth. Was not unusually large or anything.

OK, NOW I need everyone to pray for her (Night). I have no idea if I tore her uterus. How can I tell? I felt like my fingers were tearing through everything but I have no idea if I was just panicked.

Can someone tell me how I would know? SHe is really sore as I would assume she is. I gave her lots of molasses waster and she was drinking it until I went int her again to check for more because she was getting really big.

Lord, I pray that you will be with my night. I pray that I did not tear her uterus and that she will be fine, sore but fime. Lord Please help her, I fee just horrible and like a murder.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh Lori I am so sorry :hug: Prayers being sent for Night and for you too 

May God comfort you and heal Night and let her be ok


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Stacey, do you know hoe to tell if the uterus is torn?


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Lori, I'm saying a prayer as well. I've seen a couple of does who I think were torn (one I know was, the owner did a necropsy). And from the ones I've seen, the doe is totally out of it -- won't eat, won't drink, won't look at you -- just totally into themselves and zoned out. They can't or won't stand much at all, don't look for their babies -- if Night is looking "perky" at all, I'm betting she's okay!


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## BetterBuckskins (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss, you did the best that you could, I don't know for sure how to tell if you tore her uterus, but I would think that there would be heavy bleeding, or she would not be acting right because of internal blood loss. I will be sending positive thoughts your way. :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so sorry Lori. I agree, unless Night is looking "Shocky" and all that Denise described, I would bet that she'll be fine. I went thru this with my beloved Dolly and she was very lethargic, and in shock after the delivery.

I will pray for you and Night, and please know that you did what you had to help her.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Well she ate a treat out of my hand, she was drinking molasses waster, no she is not looking for the baby, and she has not moved at all and is standing.

If she did tear it what do I do? We do not own a gun to put her down.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Lori, she's eating and drinking! All very good signs....watch for her to deliver the afterbirth as you would with any healthy delivery...milk her to stimulate contractions, save that colostrum too. You will be able to tell for sure if there was any damage done within the next few hours....at this point, she sounds like she'll be fine. If it comes to having her put down, a call to a vet may be in hers and your favor, otherwise you'd need to be able to use a blade, quick and painless but messy.


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## BetterBuckskins (Feb 1, 2009)

I think that the best thing for you to do is milk her out. WE had a doe that started to hemorrhage slightly after kidding and we put both kids on her to drink and it slowed and stopped, the vet confirmed that this is the right thing try to do, it helps the uterus contract and shrink. :grouphug:


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## bheila (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm so sorry you had to go through this :hug: I think I have a link to emergency euthanasia, let me check... 
http://goat-link.com/content/view/132/139/ 
I think this is something everyone should be prepared for and be willing to do if for any reason you have an animals that are ill and you can't get a vet to come out or you can't take them in.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Ditto on what BetterBuckskins said, milking her will help to stimulate her uterus to shrink it back to its normal size if it is torn. Also if you're worried, you can give her oxytocin and dex. Do you have the homeopathic remedy arnica? Give her that every hour or two until you go to bed, Arnica will help with the pain, tissue damage and it will also help stop the bleeding if she is bleeding. Give her B Complex also to keep her energy up.

We had a doe who tore last year, it was pretty much the same thing that has happened to you. My parents had gotten the kids legs out before I got out there, then I had to push him back in and try to get his head forward(I knew she was torn then). When I did we still couldn't get him out, so we called the vet and she pulled him out. We treated her for several days and kept her kid with her even though we were bottlefeeding him, but unfortunately she passed  Thats not always the case though with a torn uterus, I've talked to several breeders who have said that they have had does who pulled through and repaired themselves, only time will tell :hug:


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## creekbottomgoats (Dec 3, 2009)

I am so sorry you had to go thru this.  Are you treating her with pen?

I witnessed the worse kidding ever a few weeks ago and I never thought the doe would make it. (pgymy) One kid delivered and the next was in position so I left. (helping friend) It was early in the morning and I had to tend to my children. I called to check on doe mid-day and she still hadn't delivered. I went back to see what was going on and doe was very stressed. She had to been in labor way sooner than friend realized. Long story, but kid was dead and vet had the hardest time getting it out. (very large)
Couldn't do section or give anything for pain because doe could not have made it at that point. We pulled on one end and he pulled on another. I don't know how she lived thru this, but she did. Oxytocin and dex was given and pen treatment was started. I went help friend give shots twice a day and doe is alive today, so you do have hope!!  

Eating and drinking are great signs, but I feel she needs antibotics. Good luck and prayers are with you!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK, thanks. I just went out to her.She ate more treats, and drank more molasses water. I will give her arnica and I do have Oxeytocin, I will do that also. I will try to milk her out and save the colostrum. 

I just gave her about 5 CC or Nutra Drench.

How much Oxy do I give?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Is she passing the placenta now? I honestly wouldn't give Oxytocin unless you have to. You don't really want to stess the uterus anymore. Milking her out may be enough.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Well, I just came in from checking on her. She was up eating, she drank more molasses water, and I gave her some grain and she was chowing down on it. I gave her Penn and Oxy and Arnica Montana. 

I was praying that the lord would spare her if I was able to get the baby out. I hope he still does. I feel horrible.


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh Lori....I am so very sorry...I pray that your girl will be ok.....I feel so awful for those of you that have had a bad birthing week.


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## Trace (Dec 29, 2008)

I am so sorry that you lost the kid - and I am praying for you that Night comes through ok.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Lori you did what you had to do. IF she is torn you certainly didnt intend it!
It sounds like she is doing pretty well under the circumstances & Im sure Night would want the same out of her shepherd, not to mention the Great Physician. :hug:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry this happened. Giving Arnica was probably one of the best things to do. We had a doe with a torn uterus and the vet was shocked she survived - it was a really bad one but she lived through it (we gave her lots of Arnica). Anyways, it doesn't sound like you tore her uterus. *hugs*


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

so sorry Lori I was out for the evening -- I wouldnt have been much help anyway - glad you got support and advise when you needed it.

Prayers continued for full healing


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks everyone.

I just checked her again. She is still looking good. She is eating and chewing her cud, but I am still praying.

Thanks again.


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

Lori, everything I'm reading doesn't really give the things you would see, just mostly that a vet has to diagnose it. One woman had a goat with a difficult delivery on day 150, with 5 lbs. twins. She just had a feeling it wasn't a normal kidding and consulted a vet-it was a uterine rupture.

Since she is "looking good", continue to monitor her and consult your vet if you feel something isn't right.

I am praying for her. ray:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I just wanted to give a update.

well before I went out to feed this morning I figured I better check the camera to brace myself and not have to go out and see the doe dead.
I turned on the TV, waited for the thing to come on and prayed. I opened my eyes and she was eating. :leap: OH Praise goad.

I went out gave her some Banamein(sp) and some Thua (all natural thing like Arnica, but this help your body heal itself). 

I am pretty sure she passed the placenta. I did not see any hanging this morning and non on the ground. She is still moving pretty slow. OH I feel so bad for her.

I know she is hurting. My left hand that was in her is all bruised because I was trying to her that head around and as she would have a contraction it would squeeze my hand it it felt like It was getting smashed in a car door.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats great news Lori

so glad she is doing alright. Sorry about yoru hand though


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

sweetgoats said:


> I turned on the TV, waited for the thing to come on and prayed. I opened my eyes and she was eating. OH Praise goad.


A wonderful update; it's great she continues to eat. :clap: Thinking of Night as she continues to heal. :hug:


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Lori, it honestly sounds like sh'es going to be fine. Sore and ouchy, but fine! If she had ruptured, she would be going down hill, not slowly feeling better. Yeah!

I've had some experience with really bad deliveries -- mostly b/c I have pygmies, I'm sure. Even in the best circumstances, the heads are large and blocky, so I often help with that part. But I breed for this --- long body, level rump (this is Cleo who escaped the barn yard and was up munching by the pool!), so there is room for those babies to move and get into positoin.










But I've seen deliveries that are horror stories -- one owner yanked and pulled so much, not only did she rupture the goat's uterus, but the doe was paralyzed in her back end. I could go on and on -- but why?

I think I'm put up a new topic about kidding positions and what everyone else does, what do you think?

Anyway, hugs and cheers to both you and NIght!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Oh Lori, I just found this, I'm sorry you had so much trouble with Night. She sounds like she's on the mend though. Good luck, you did the best you could, you can't blame yourself. :grouphug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks Di, It is heard breaking when I go into the barn and you hear hear her really quiet baaaaa. I know she is calling her baby. 

She is eating and all but she did not eat her grain last night at all and that bothers me. She did not eat a lot last night of her hay either.

I am just praying she is ok.


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

sweetgoats said:


> Thanks Di, It is heard breaking when I go into the barn and you hear hear her really quiet baaaaa. I know she is calling her baby.


This part is always so sad, when there is a loss. Still saying ray: for Night.


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## shadycreekgoats (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, I know I'm kinda late to this thread, but it sounds like night is doing better.....but I found this link http://olsonacres.com/Goat%20Care.htm and it says quote "If you have to assist by turning or pulling a kid ~ be sure to treat doe with penicillin shots (2 cc/1 x per day - 3 days)"

I hope that helps....

Lori, you have done a great job!!! :hug: :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

hmm, just wondering if you've been giving antibiotics since you were inside her? just wondering, she may have an infection


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am happy... she is doing better.... that is such a relief... :hug:


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