# Critique these does



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I got some new pictures of some of my does and I'd like to see what you think.
Thanks in advance!
Sweet Flowers Clematis. 6 years old. Not full in picture.









Merry Oaks Royal Empress 9 months.

















Sweet Flowers Poppy 7 years old.Not full in picture.









Merry Oaks Oreo. 4 years old









Merry Oaks Sunflower 3 year sold. Not full in picture









Merry Oaks Emarald. 2 years old. Not full in picture.









BBD Dolly's Della FF Yearling.


----------



## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Overall a very nice group of does. I'm even less an expert on full-sized breeds, so I don't know what the standards for uphillness are, but Oreo, Sunflower, and Clematis have startlingly sloped backs in these setups. I would be happy with the degree of slope that Poppy and Della have. But that's me.


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

They're very uphill which I like but some of them squat at the slightest touch.
Anyone else? Cpk?


----------



## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

I definitely like Clematis the best, and then Poppy next. The others aren't quite as nice but not terrible. I'd be keeping does from Clematis hoping to keep that style.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

margaret said:


> Anyone else? Cpk?


Margaret? You want ME to do them? I'm flattered!!!


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Margaret? You want ME to do them? I'm flattered!!!


yes! I like your critiques. Plus, you're the only person who seems interested in critiquing these days:lol:


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Sunflower and Emarald are both leaving next spring, I was very disappointed in Alexander's daughters
And yes, I plan to retain all of Clematis's and Poppy's doe kids the next couple of years.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

margaret said:


> yes! I like your critiques. Plus, you're the only person who seems interested in critiquing these days:lol:


Thanks!  I do wish some other folks would do some critiques too...it gets boring doing them by my lonesome self!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

So I'll start at the top  

Sweet Flowers Clematis:

Pros:
-Nice long jaw
-Deep jaw
-Nice ear set
-Good neck length
-Good brisket
-Nice tight shoulder
-Neck blends nicely into brisket and shoulder 
-Great depth in heart girth
-Good depth in rear and middle barrel
-Lots of body capacity
-Good spring of ribs
-Nice dairy wedge
-Topline is smooth
-Good length in chine
-I like how her front legs are square under her
-Front legs are lean, but still strong
-Rump is a decent length
-Rump is smooth and level
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Back legs are clean and sharp
-Back pasterns are a good length and still holding up very well
-Back cannon bone is a nice length
-Good dairy character
-Smoothly blended overall
-Good body length
-Barrel is holding up well
-Uphill


Cons:
-Can't really see her throat latch clearly, but looks like it might be a bit course
-Neck could be leaner and use some refinement 
-Lacks in chest floor
-Could use sharper withers
-Front pasterns starting to break down a tad
-Front pasterns a tad long, if they were a bit shorter, they wouldn't look quite as weak 
-Could use a tad more refinement in her body


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Now, I believe I've done Royal Empress, Poppy and Oreo.  Poppy and Oreo just recently in the "Learning to Critique" thread  sooo I'm not doing them here  Someone else can! :lol:


....hopefully some of the pros will take this hint, lol!


----------



## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm not even close to expert but I definitely think clematis and dolly are the best in confirmation. Della, emerald, and empress would be my next. Then sunflower and Oreo. I don't like seeing such an extreme uphill.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Emzi00 said:


> I definitely like Clematis the best, and then Poppy next. The others aren't quite as nice but not terrible. I'd be keeping does from Clematis hoping to keep that style.


100% agree! We seem to have the same tastes... wonder why :slapfloor:

But GOOD decision on Sunflower and Emerald, selling the ones that don't fit makes room for improvement. That's a really important thing to learn early, saves you a lot of work in the long run.
Also, for the squatting issue, don't scrunch them down right in front of the hips, try a little further up, like mid spine.

I think they all would cross really well with one of my bucks... :shades:

But I'm pretty sure I've done them all at least once :lol:


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Yeah, their sire was a loser:lol: Out of all the kids he sired for me and my friend, there was like 3 that turned out decent, you generally are looking for improvement on does, but Alex, well he did the opposite:lol:
I posted them again because I had really bad pictures of most of the ones you did


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

rebelINny said:


> I'm not even close to expert but I definitely think clematis and dolly are the best in confirmation. Della, emerald, and empress would be my next. Then sunflower and Oreo. I don't like seeing such an extreme uphill.


Like I said, they aren't that much uphill, Just squatted down too much. And Oreo is much better than Emerald is. Especially in the udder department.


----------



## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Clematis is definitely my favorite! And then Poppy.  Clematis looks so much nicer than the photo you showed me!


----------



## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

And I would do these does, but I'm pretty sure I've already done most of them, LOL.


----------



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I don't think Emerald and Della have been done at all.
I might consider keeping a kid out of Emerald though, very pleased with what I got this year bred to Delta Rho Spart's SweetWilliam


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Sunflower:
pros:
-Nice long jaw
-Deep jaw
-Nice ear set
-Long neck
-Neck is feminine
-Good brisket
-Tight shoulder
-Good chest floor
-Good depth in heart girth
-Nice spring of ribs
-Good depth middle barrel
-Smooth topline
-Legs are sharp and feminine
-Withers are sharp-ish
-Good body length
-Rump is level
-Good rear pasterns
-Nice incurve to thigh

Cons:
-Neck could be smoother
-Fore legs look a bit weak
-Fore pasterns could be shorter and stronger
-Lacks body capacity
-Lacks depth in rear barrel
-No dairy wedge
-Rump looks short

Short n' sweet  Guess I'm not in the 'critiquing' mood today!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Emarald:
Pros:
-Lean feminine neck
-Good brisket
-Neck blends nicely into brisket
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder
-Clean sharp withers
-Nice tight shoulder
-Front legs are square beneath her
-Front legs are straight
-Ok chest floor, could be better
-Front cannon bones are a nice length
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in middle and rear barrel
-Good body capacity
-Nice smooth topline
-Nice long chine
-Nice rump length
-Good rump angle
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Back legs are sharp and clean
-Back pasterns are good
-Good body length
-Good dairy character
-Uphill

Cons: 
-Lacks power in hind end assembly
-I don't like her color, lol 
-Front pasterns a bit weak
-Front pasterns a tad long
-Needs a bit more chest floor
-If she wasn't squatting so much, I think her rump would be a bit steep
-And I feel I've missed some cons 

She's not a bad looking doe, I just don't like her color  ....no sun doesn't help though  IMO


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Della:
Pros:
-Jaw is a nice length
-Long feminine neck
-Lean neck
-Good brisket
-Good chest floor
-Clean throat latch
-Sharp withers
-Nice tight shoulder
-Good depth in heart girth
-Promising depth in rear and middle barrel
-Promising body capacity
-Nice smooth topline
-Nice long chine
-Nice long rump
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Back legs clean and smooth
-Back pasterns strong
-Well balanced body
-Good dairy character
-Promising young doe


Cons:
-Neck could blend better into shoulder, withers and brisket
-Front legs could be straighter
-Front pasterns could be stronger
-Splayed toes in fore ?
-Steep-ish rump
-Could be a tad more smoothly blended

Nice doe


----------

