# ABGA to USBGA



## TrailsEnd (Nov 24, 2013)

No matter how many threads I read about registry, I am still confused. I have two full blood ABGA registered does. If I was to breed them with a USBGA buck, could be they be registered with the ABGA as full blood or do I need to stick with a ABGA buck in order to register them as full blood?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would call ABGA and find out.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes call and give the reg. # of the buck as see if they have him in the system. Right or wrong this is how I've been doing it.....I am a member with both but since I don't want all my eggs in one basket if one goes belly up I buy abga bucks that way the kids can be reg. With either one depending on what mom is. That way if abga shuts down they all can be usbga and if usbga goes under and for some reason abga will not take usbga goats I have not lost them all.....does this make sense lol. Bottom line go with a buck they both will except  but watch us and make sure the % comes out right. I had a 100% doe who bred to a 100% buck....I sold a doe out of them and she sent the papers to us and the % come out on that working as 98.something......I'm a little ticked about that.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I don't think the ABGA will accept goats from another registry anymore, except IBGA goats and they will only accept them until the end of the year. The ABGA closed their books a couple years ago to dual registering goats, before that you could dual register but as far as I know now you can not. They can still be registered USBGA.


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## TrailsEnd (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes it makes sense. I was just trying to figure out if I should breed my doe to a USBGA buck when she is ABGA registered…. Im afraid ABGA will only register the babies as 50% since the father is USBGA. My doe is a traditional and I was interested in getting a little color in my herd with a paint buck


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes call and see if they will take the bucks papers if not and you really want him I would change to us. I don't know if they would even be 50% since in ab books he is nothing and you can only breed a 100% buck to a commercial doe to get 50% not a 100% doe to a commercial buck...and that's what they would consider him as. I know there has been talk of changing that I just don't know if it went threw. I think it wand dani who made a thread on it here so maybe she would know if it changed yet.


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## TrailsEnd (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank you! I will keep looking for an ABGA sire. Good to know!


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## MontanaMist (Dec 27, 2015)

Who wants to keep the usbga goats out of abga? It is very clear to anyone getting into Boers that the USBGA has limited data and goat records available and services. Why would anyone join USBGA if you are starting fresh? Is there a practical reason ABGA rejects USBGA stock? I see a nice registered black headed buck that is usbga for sale but I have abga does. PLEASE enlighten me...what is wrong with USBGA BOER GOATS? WHO is the cause of this discriminatory unfair treatment of the USBGA goat breeders? Be proud and speak up stand your cause if its legit. Im new and I really want to know because it seems like a power play and no benefit to the goats or breeders.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Honestly I think that is exactly what it is, a power play. At one point I went with both USBGA and I don’t think they had limited data, well for them, they really never did offer data to their members to access. Anyways USBGA actually found where ABGA had goofed on a 100% (with ABGA) and she was actually a 99.5%. But I think the whole not excepting USBGA was to force people to choose between one or the other. 
When ABGA started the DNA testing a lot of people flocked to USBGA. Sadly USBGA for whatever reason wouldn’t meet the demand of the flood of people. So members got annoyed it was taking months to get papers on animals. So people went back to ABGA. I’m not one to blast any business on social media of any kind, but I’m not even sure if they are in business any more. My friend who is a total USBGA fan has now waited something like 6 months and still had not gotten papers on her kids. It’s going to be sad for her because she has transferred ABGA goats to USBGA for years now. Has sold bucks that were not DNA tested and no way to get it done now and change her herd over to ABGA. She will have a all commercial herd if they are in fact not in business any more


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## MontanaMist (Dec 27, 2015)

Thank you for the reply. Can ABGA membership do something to save those genetics within the USBGA in order to benefit the breed as well as breeders? Maybe a fund raiser to support a database of pedigrees built on site of ABGA.? Eventually incorporate those original animals into ABGA registry at % on papers?


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

MontanaMist said:


> Can ABGA membership do something to save those genetics within the USBGA in order to benefit the breed as well as breeders? Maybe a fund raiser to support a database of pedigrees built on site of ABGA.? Eventually incorporate those original animals into ABGA registry at % on papers?


You can easily breed an ABGA buck/doe to a USBGA buck/doe and get ABGA percentage kids. You won't have the USBGA goats listed on the ABGA papers (they would just be listed as BOER X), but if you have a USBGA pedigree, that can be kept separately to keep track. There just aren't enough USBGA goats anymore to warrant the ABGA to have another pedigree database in addition to their own.

Now that the ABGA requires DNA on sires, I doubt that they would incorporate different registries. Otherwise, they would be making unfair exceptions. I assume it won't be long before does will need their DNA on file as well. When that happens, I'm guessing the doors will be officially closed.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well years ago there was also IBGA, when they stopped ABGA did except IBGA papers for a limited time......I know this because I just missed the mark when I first got into registered goats. But I think CountryLineAcres is correct I don’t think that is going to happen again. And she did bring up a good point with the DNAing now, how would they even go about doing that? The DNAing has been going now for some years and I think they have a pretty much weeded out the unhonest lines by now. It would just start again. I do also think they will also DNA on the does. That will be another headache to add if they started to take USBGA goats. But then again maybe there will be plenty of people like me with larger herds that really don’t make all that much money and another $60 a head on does makes a good chance of just backing out or registered stock altogether


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

When we got into goats, we started with commercial does, and bred to 100% IBGA registered Boer buck. First registered kids in 2011. We really liked IBGA, they were easy to work with, fast and affordable. But unfortunately closed about 2 years later with no warning. 
IBGA was big - much, much bigger than USBGA, and ABGA agreed to take on their books, and allow IBGA goats to be registered with ABGA for I believe 1 year which IMO I thought was very silly opposed to just allowing IBGA goats over say... a 4 year period so anyone who didn't get the memo/out of the loop at least had a chance to get things worked out when they did find out about IBGA closing.

Goats originally registered with IBGA will have a "G" in front of their registration #. On their pedigree, it will list that goat and their parents, and that's it, you can't trace them back beyond that which is a real shame.
So...this is what you would get. This was our first Fullblooded doe, 1/2 of our herd over the years has gone back to her (unfortunately her buyer never transferred her and bred commercial). 









The other irritating thing was at the time - goats wouldn't carry their breeder prefix, they had to carry current owner who was transferring the IBGA goat to ABGA, so that means you had to tattoo them with your herd prefix. We never did do that...not even with the doe above.

We had a buck that was dual registered at the time - both IBGA & ABGA with a great pedigree at that time. We had % daughters we were transferring, and even though he was also ABGA registered...they would not alter the paper to allow the sire's ABGA pedigree to show up.

So we got this...









Instead of this for her sire...


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Yes! They did allow IBGA. It was an enormous influx of new blood - thousands upon thousands of boers entered the system. It was a blessing for everyone with IBGA stock to not lose their registration.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> Goats originally registered with IBGA will have a "G" in front of their registration #.


I didn't realize it was "G"! I always thought the "I" in front of the registration number meant IBGA lol. Oops!

Now I'm wondering what the "I" stands for? I know the "*I" in front means a foreign registration number. Every goat I'm looking at with the "I-" prefix seems to have at least one ancestral or foreign reg. goat within the first few generations but nothing seems consistent. I think I'll have to contact the ABGA and ask. I am so curious!


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## MontanaMist (Dec 27, 2015)

Thank you for the information. Very helpful.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I always thought it was the “I” too! I have never seen one with the G before. Huh learn something new everyday!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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