# Goat mineral



## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm new to goat spot so I'm not quite sure how it works. Can anyone advise me if the attached goat mineral is ok. I'm new to keep goats too so any help would be much appreciated.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

We have some great mineral folks here. Hopefully they see this. It looks good to me, but I'm not a mineral authority!


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> We have some great mineral folks here. Hopefully they see this. It looks good to me, but I'm not a mineral authority!


Thank you, I was a bit confused on how to start threads but think I have got it now.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Welcome to the forum:holidaywelcome:There are several threads on here about minerals too. If you type in minerals in the search bar they should come up. There’s a lot of good advice on here about them.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

@mariarose, @NigerianDwarfOwner707?


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

elvis&oliver said:


> Welcome to the forum:holidaywelcome:There are several threads on here about minerals too. If you type in minerals in the search bar they should come up. There's a lot of good advice on here about them.


Thanks, I will check it out. Want to get my goats the best foundation I can. There's a lot to know, more than I thought.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

It's not the worst I've seen--but it's certainly not good. It's very low on copper, and some ratios are a little off. Do you have any other options? I wouldn't recommend that.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> It's not the worst I've seen--but it's certainly not good. It's very low on copper, and some ratios are a little off. Do you have any other options? I wouldn't recommend that.


I was thinking the same but I ain't too good at it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

healthyishappy said:


> I was thinking the same but I ain't too good at it.


I think you've learned a lot! Don't be afraid to share your opinions!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Not knowing what all your options are, or what the rest of the diet is like, and next to nothing about conditions where you are, I think that mineral is good enough to try and see. I suggest you learn what the signs of deficiency are for your common minerals, such as copper and selenium (and zinc) and then keep an eye out for those signs.

Overall, I like it.

Northern Ireland, huh? How exciting that you are here and can teach us about keeping goats there! You are very welcome here.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Not knowing what all your options are, or what the rest of the diet is like, and next to nothing about conditions where you are, I think that mineral is good enough to try and see. I suggest you learn what the signs of deficiency are for your common minerals, such as copper and selenium (and zinc) and then keep an eye out for those signs.
> 
> Overall, I like it.
> 
> Northern Ireland, huh? How exciting that you are here and can teach us about keeping goats there! You are very welcome here.


I think it will be hard to not have serious deficiencies with that low level of copper. Like I said, it's not the worst I've seen but if the OP has other options I would recommend finding something better. And we really don't know what the rest of the diet is, with a calcium to phosphorus ratio such as that, I would want to know what the complete diet is. At the very least, it will need some copper supplementation.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> And we really don't know what the rest of the diet is,


Yes, I said this.


NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> At the very least, it will need some copper supplementation.


Don't we all? Lol.

My best advice still, is for the OP to learn the symptoms, and watch the goats. All this will take time. Of course, the OP is completely welcome to come back with the other options available and we'll be very happy to talk about them, too. But I've no idea what mineral levels are like in the soil and plants of N.I. and I look forward to other interactions and learning.


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

Thank you for everyone’s responses , much appreciated. Being from Ireland we don’t have a big choice in minerals, there is only one other goat mineral that I have came across, which I will post below in a minute. I actually had mineral ordered from America but it got turned back at customs last week as they said it was a restricted item, then I came across this one which I thought was pretty good but I’m no expert. I asked them about the ratio being 5:1 calcium to phosphorus and for goats i thought it was 2:1. They said that this was a traditional ratio from 1950’s / 1960’s and there was research done 8 years ago after going through the ‘phos’ crisis, so this is why they prefer to keep it 5:1. Sounds good to me but again I’m no expert..  


I’m currently feeding them grass hay free choice from a local farmer which has a good name for the quality of it. Sometimes I give them a bit of haylage as my neighbor keeps horses and she kindly lets me have some if I want it and they get barley straw free choice. They get a standard goat meal at night, don’t even know what’s in it as the label was badly damaged and there was nothing online I could see about it. It’s the only one they really do over here. Also I give them every day or every other day a bit of butternut squash, carrots and few willow branches and I’ve recently started giving them small amounts of garlic after coming across a few threads on here , I love garlic.  I also have a block of natural rock salt for them as well.


I have no idea of the minerals in the ground it would be something I would have to look into. 


Goats are doing well from what I can see. What sort of copper deficiencies can I look out for in them if there was any?


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

This one can only be offered with there meal as they say it breaks down when left out apparently, the previous one can be offered in the meal but also can be offered free choice.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I think you've learned a lot! Don't be afraid to share your opinions!!


Thank you. I agree. I'm not afraid to give my opinion but I dont because I'm not as educated as I want to be and dont want to give out incorrect info.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think I prefer the first one, myself.

I just got home from work and need to get dishes done, etc. I'll get back with you about copper signs, or someone else will.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

David13-5 said:


> What sort of copper deficiencies can I look out for in them if there was any?


The main one that you can see visually is a fishtail (hair loss on the tail making a sort of "V" shape. General roughness of the coat, an off color, faded color, black coat turning rusty or reddish, really really brittle hair that may even stand up on the ends or become white on the tips; curling hair can also be a sign. Coat condition is one of the quickest ways to see if there is a copper deficiency. But other symptoms are lack of parasite resistance, weight-loss, poor immune system, general unthriftiness, poor hoof condition, and anemia.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> The main one that you can see visually is a fishtail (hair loss on the tail making a sort of "V" shape. General roughness of the coat, an off color, faded color, black coat turning rusty or reddish, really really brittle hair that may even stand up on the ends or become white on the tips; curling hair can also be a sign. Coat condition is one of the quickest ways to see if there is a copper deficiency. But other symptoms are lack of parasite resistance, weight-loss, poor immune system, general unthriftiness, poor hoof condition, and anemia.


There are more, but those are the common symptoms.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@David13-5 The very first sign you get (when the deficiency is easiest to correct) is a rough coat. The ends of the individual hairs will curl up like a fish hook if you don't address this right away. Then as the deficiency gets worse, you get all the other problems. A bald tip to the tail (fish tail) is a later problem and may never resolve if the deficiency has been too long-standing. So, if the coat is rough instead of smooth-shiny, then give copper boluses.

Yes, I know. This seems like a cosmetic thing. But it is an indication of worse things to come that are not cosmetic. So address it early and you can avoid worse things to come.

Mineral deficiencies are cumulative. They don't stop at merely decorative issues.

This (TGS) is primarily U.S. based, and we have a lot of products at our buying power. Other places don't have all our choices (or have different restrictions) and need different ideas to meet the needs of livestock. Please be patient with us as we have your goats in our hearts and really do want to help.


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

Yeah I think I have some copper deficiency's, I noticed in my black girl around her eyes looked a bit bald and her coat looked a bit curly, me and the kids have been brushing them every night thinking she just needs a good groom.

I've attached some pics to let you see what you both think.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Copper and zinc. Can you show us their tails as they naturally hold them? And legs-pasterns-hooves?


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

I will get some pics tomorrow as it’s dark now.

This forum is a real blessing.

Thank you.


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

We are having traditional Irish weather at the moment Maria, rain, wind and not much light about. The lighting in the shed were I have them wouldn’t be great for getting good pictures. So it will probably be a couple of days before it clears up before I can get them out into good light, to get good pics took.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

David13-5 said:


> We are having traditional Irish weather at the moment Maria,


Ahh, Traditions. Ain't they great?


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

Hopefully these pictures are ok.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Good. Good. The selenium seems OK so far, at least in those angles. I'd give the hooves a good trim so that the floor of the hoof is flat and isn't able to catch and hold onto that wetness...
Can you get a product called TruCare 4? It is a ZinPro product. I got mine through Amazon. Here's a link so that you know what I'm talking about.
https://smile.amazon.com/TruCare-To..._1_1?keywords=TruCare+4&qid=1579072784&sr=8-1
This would be a good fit with the mineral mix you showed us, I'd think. If you can get it that is.

I think your chosen mineral mix (that you showed us) will be fine in the Calcium/phosphorus department with the rest of their diets. If the diet were very rich in alfalfa (lucerne) then I'd be more concerned, but that should be fine.

A separate salt lick should also be supplied. This lick can be either loose salt or a salt block. Here in the States we can get salt blocks that are laden with other minerals as well, (such as selenium or cobalt, but especially iodine) or plain white. We can also get ancient sea salt blocks, such as Himalayan salt or Redmond brand salt. If plain white salt is all you can get (remember my ignorance here, I mean no offense) then that is certainly better than no salt at all.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Before everyone gives more info than needed and runs this person to insanity trying to find things that don't exist in Ireland, just stop. I have been penpal to an Irish goat farm for 13 years. The ground and browse supplies their minerals. They are lacking vitamins to use what's there. A little stir of 5 mg cod liver oil on daily meal makes up the lack.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

goathiker said:


> The ground and browse supplies their minerals. They are lacking vitamins to use what's there. A little stir of 5 mg cod liver oil on daily meal makes up the lack.


YAY!!! So that would be all of Eire, including N.I. then? Great to know. Would the mineral mix first suggested be unnecessary then? Or should he still offer the mix?


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Do you have the equivalent there of our County Co-Op Extensions? Or any governmental agriculture resources? I would try to find out what minerals your soil is deficient in. Here in the states we have a great interactive map that lists average soil percentages by county. That can be really helpful because if your soil is already high in copper or selenium, and you feed MORE, they can develop toxicity - which annoyingly has the same symptoms as deficiency.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

seachick said:


> they can develop toxicity - which annoyingly has the same symptoms as deficiecy


Not the same symptoms, actually. I keep reading this, and it just isn't so. Neither for copper, nor for selenium.


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

I do believe they are not getting enough copper, though this could be because they haven’t been exposed to enough fresh forage, but even at that most of the U.K. lacks copper in the ground. I’ve contacted a local government run agriculture company and they have been very helpful, so I’m going to get soil tests done next week. I’m also going to go with the first mineral mix and just give it slowly at the start and see how they get on with it. I think this is one I need to figure out for myself and by my surroundings. 

Thank you for everyone’s time and help you all have helped me a lot.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

David13-5 said:


> I'm also going to go with the first mineral mix and just give it slowly at the start and see how they get on with it.


Most of us are going to say give the mineral mix and the salt free choice, because the goat knows better than you do how much she needs... and when. The codliver oil is still a great idea, but let the goat decide about the minerals, not you.


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## David13-5 (Jan 8, 2020)

Thanks Maria, I will do that with the mineral mix and I will check out the cod liver oil. Thank you


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Can you get a product called TruCare 4? It is a ZinPro product. I got mine through Amazon. Here's a link so that you know what I'm talking about.
> https://smile.amazon.com/TruCare-To..._1_1?keywords=TruCare+4&qid=1579072784&sr=8-1
> This would be a good fit with the mineral mix you showed us, I'd think. If you can get it that is.


@mariarose , did you give the TruCare 4 free choice, or top dress? I am thinking of getting it for my goats in addition to the cattle mineral they have free choice.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It is a top dress item, not formulated for free choice. Since I didn't do individual attention very well (and it got even more difficult later on) I only used it for the 1 bag.

I personally can not recommend this for a free choice application. Not enough salt there (imo) to be a legitimate self-limiting supplement.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks!
I won’t be using it for free choice then.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

mariarose said:


> It is a top dress item, not formulated for free choice. Since I didn't do individual attention very well (and it got even more difficult later on) I only used it for the 1 bag.
> 
> I personally can not recommend this for a free choice application. Not enough salt there (imo) to be a legitimate self-limiting supplement.


Is there a benefit in TrUCare id I am already giving Replamin Plus to the individuals I am concerned about? I did a comparison, and Replamin Plus has the same minerals and more. I do give extra zinc with the Replamin.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with all but, the idea which states, copper and selenium toxicity is not the same as the deficiency. 

It does indeed have the same symptoms, being deficient to toxic. However, is gets worse and can kill the the goat.


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