# Butterscotch



## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Starting a thread to follow Butterscotch through her first freshening progress. I have a hard time finding things on the development of Udders and other such things on mini breed goats so here I go. However I do not have a due date just a huge range of when she is due thanks to someone allowing pasture breeding of a very young goat. I guess I am also starting this thread for support on this journey as I am very afraid of the outcome I will experience. I do not believe I will ever breed her myself either due to her size unless for some reason she sprouts in growth which I doubt. She is due anywhere from now to March 1stish. I am leaning more towards March.

As of now she has been stretching some, and not really wanting to snuggle with the other doe much but ligs are pretty hard still.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Yesterdays pictures..I haven't seen any significant changes in over a week now. Her pooch has always stuck out so not much difference. It just doesn't look as tight as it did before.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

It looks like her udder might be filling a little more. Keeping her in my thoughts! Good luck


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

It's Getting ready to storm so I went to do my last night check on her and her plug is getting thinner to where it actually hangs out like snot now. Doesn't look like kidding goo and ligs are still on the firm side. They are starting to spread out a little away from her tail though.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

So we were having basically no change from previous picture and then boom today! Sorry camera on my backup phone sucks. Can't have anything nice when you have four kids 7 and under lol


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good luck!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Going to check her weight in the morning to make sure it hasn't shot up. It has to be a single because she doesn't even look pregnant at all. I finally started noticing movement on the right side last week it's usually looks like 2-4 thumps or a wave like movement.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Movements are high up.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Anything new? 
She's super cute!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Anything new?
> She's super cute!


No changes really just driving me insane lol I think it feels like one of her ligs has softened up a little on one side and her tail is kind of crooked like but they are still very much there. She sniffed my other does pee today and held her head high haha no nesting at all so far. She rubs her head on everything and sniffs everything, she is stretching quite a bit, and still is pretty active she will forage her heart out. She looks hilarious running and trying to keep up with us. She will just yell at me until I stop and wait for her. I am mostly worried about her kidding while my husband is at work. I need him home to keep my young kids inside. I can't have my crazy 2 year old outside while trying to assist her. I am nervous enough lol


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Following!! :-D

She's very pretty!


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm following this! I also have a doe on the smaller side that is bred..... And due..... Gosh, I don't even know when.....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hoping all goes well. Good luck.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She does not look pregnant today lol but I posted a picture if size comparison to a nigerian. She won't stop talking to me she's a very vocal goat


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I check on her about a million times a day lol I'm convinced at this point she's never going to kid and that this has all just been a dream. I'm pretty positive everyone in my life is tired of me talking about her lol


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

What a pretty girl. She's so itty bitty. I hope she kids easily for you, and soon!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Is this what loosening looks like? That the closed vulva is starting to open? Her ligs are still hard.


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## Tbs4life2000 (Mar 10, 2016)

She is adorable. Following. Looks like it won't be long


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She is acting pretty uncomfortable right now like she's starting to fall asleep and pops back up. She was walking very slow a little bit ago while I was out too. What do I get to test for toxemia? I don't give her much grain because I was worried about a big kid but now I'm worried I'm hurting her. Then again she may just very well be getting uncomfortable because of being close like any pregnant person.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I let her forage to her hearts desire and she has mixed grass hay and I do 1-2 cups of alpha pellets mixed with a little grain but not much at all.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes, that is what "loosening up" looks like. 

I'm not sure about preg tox, never dealt with that. 

Walking slow is normal for the last part of pregnancy. Her diet sounds good as well.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She hasn't shown any nesting signs what so ever. Does that mean she is going to be a bad mom? I'm a bit worried because of her being young. I have the stuff to make milk on hand if I had to, but what about a bottle? like do I buy nipples from a co op or like a real baby bottle?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Udder is fuller today, but not like I'm gonna kid anytime full lol


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

if she were to kid at day 145 March 1st should be the last 145th day possibility. I am so worried she has a massive buck in there. He gets pretty crazy in there towards the night. I'm just calling buckling on this one lol


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Mine never nest, and I've never had any reject kids or anything.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Thank you! I was just worried. I am pretty certain she was dam raised by how skittsh she was when i got her and her being very into staying with the other goats. She is starting to get really mad about me touching her. She has tried to but me a few times lol I have been doing my best to give her space and kinda watch her from a distance instead of picking at her constantly. I still don't think her ligs have gotten any softer at all.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah, mine always get really super mad when I try to poke and prod them the last few weeks. Usually I try for one or two good checks per day, during feeding time. 

To help her be friendlier in the future - when she kids, get some birthing goop all over your hands and let her lick them off. She'll then think you're her baby.


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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

Mine have never nested either! That doesn't mean they will be a bad mom. You can get nipples at the coop that just screw onto a regular water bottle or soda bottle. I forget what the brand is, but they are red and yellow. That kind works perfectly for Nigerians.


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## TeyluFarm (Feb 24, 2016)

Good luck with her!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Today we have a bad storm with potential to turn into a tornado and I have girl scout booths all weekend. I am pretty positive she is going to go into labor while I'm at a booth lol


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

New pictures just because lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Nice doe.


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Any news? How is she?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She is still pregnant which means this is my fault and my buck and myself are responsible.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I brought her home on October 7th, 2016 and was told it was about a month since he last seen the buck on her well obviously that was not the case but she was still with him up until the evening of October 7th but even then she should have kidded by now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All you can do is watch her. How is her udder after 1 week since that picture?
Is it getting bigger?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I feel like it looks the same.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm seeing some big changes from when you started this post. These girls always shock me....it seems as soon as I say "I'm done watching, she has a few more days/weeks." BOOM! Within the day, there's kids  

I made a post a few weeks ago because I was just sure that my one doe was going to kid earlier than I anticipated (bred twice) and nope.....she's totally fooled me and looks like she is due next week at my original date. Well, maybe.......

I agree, all you can do is watch her.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Realtree2429 said:


> I'm seeing some big changes from when you started this post. These girls always shock me....it seems as soon as I say "I'm done watching, she has a few more days/weeks." BOOM! Within the day, there's kids
> 
> I made a post a few weeks ago because I was just sure that my one doe was going to kid earlier than I anticipated (bred twice) and nope.....she's totally fooled me and looks like she is due next week at my original date. Well, maybe.......
> 
> I agree, all you can do is watch her.


At this point I am about to rename her April after the Giraffe. I don't know when you consider them making an udder? It has been 6 weeks but then I may be counting to soon because I noticed change on her teats fast because I am use to seeing her I guess but the real udder stuff took a while.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

The times my buck was out around her he didn't ever show any interest in her. He is actually just mean to her but they can do the act super fast. I thought he had some favoritism to my one doe because he is constantly trying to get at her. I am considering selling him. He is such a nice looking buck and it would suck to sale and buy again in the future but I don't have enough does to put up with his crazy. He is scaling a 5 foot fence. So I am going to have to make a top on his fencing. He hates me!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is usually about 1 to 1 1/2 months prior to kidding when they begin an udder, it is when you first see or feel a pouch there, so she has a bit more time to go. But yet again as mentioned, they can fill overnight and soon soon after.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

toth boer goats said:


> It is usually about 1 to 1 1/2 months prior to kidding when they begin an udder, it is when you first see or feel a pouch there, so she has a bit more time to go. But yet again as mentioned, they can fill overnight and soon soon after.


She should just wait until St. Patrick's day that would be cool.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She may. 
Still keep an eye on her.

Without a due date, we have to be cautious, they can surprise us too.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She deff filled up more today, and is now challenging herd queen which she never ever does. Usually if she gets butted she may but back once and quit, but today she started it all hairs were raised and she wasn't about to give up. 

I spent a good amount of time today trying to catch this new Mare we have because I need to get a halter on her so I can worm her but no luck. The colt is a sweetheart I got to walk him around and love on a horse for the first time. So that was quite exciting for me lol


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

her little hoo ha is opening up so much! Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd look at goats backends so much!!


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

I know its so crazy!!!!!!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Udder is much firmer now. The round teat area is filling now. I don't know enough about udders to say this, but I am going to anyways lol I think she has a pretty decent FF udder especially for being a cross and not knowing what I was getting.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh yeah, she is getting closer. Nice udder.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Awesome!!! She definitely getting closer!

Yeah, my husband makes fun of me about how much I look at the backend of the goats. Either to watch for diarrhea, vulva changes or udders. It's best not to think about it


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

My dad makes fun of me haha I don't even realize I do it now.


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

This week I've been sending pictures of utters to my husband at work lol one day he asked his fellow workers "hey you guys want to see some dirty pictures my wife sent me?" He then showed them lol
They were totally grossed out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:laugh:


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

My husband keeps trying to calm me down lol he's like just give her time, it will happen when shes ready. He has been through me going over with 4 kids in which I still didn't go on my own lol my body would hold a child like a giraffe if they didn't force them out of me. I swear her udder looks like it is going to pop but her stinking ligs are not getting softer. I keep thinking I must be feeling a bone or something wrong and I got on google and no I am pretty sure it is the right spot lol HALP!!!! I didn't think I could go any crazier.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, she has to go soon if her udder is super tight. 

We all know the Doe code of honor.  :crazy::hair::doh:


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

toth boer goats said:


> Wow, she has to go soon if her udder is super tight.
> 
> We all know the Doe code of honor.  :crazy::hair::doh:


The baby is going crazy in there today, and it has her moody. She is finally taking a nap finally. All the movement is still way up close to the hip bone on the right side and she is super fluffy so you know the baby is banging hard for that to show lol


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

I say she will go in the next day or two


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I think, I think not certain that she is having some contractions. Not like real heavy ones, but she was laying down an hour or two ago and she pushed three times, but poop came out lol then I was like meh. She got up walked around laid back down and took a nap and after nap got up her tail raised half way and slowly dropped back down. Well this time when it went up it arched back like just the top half of the tail arched. She is stilll eating hay watching me through my window yelling at me. I am assuming they are like human practice contractions


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

They might be. When she's about to give birth there will be a string of discharge fro her vulva. When it gets really long then she will have kids within the next hour more or less.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She may be starting pre-labor ,shifting those kids.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes, goats do have contractions before actual labor begins, same as humans. Hopefully she will go soon


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## Clarebear12345 (Dec 2, 2015)

Butterscotch is adorable and I'm sure her kids will be beautiful!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisalisa89 said:


> her little hoo ha is opening up so much! Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd look at goats backends so much!!


I know exactly what you mean. I took a bunch of back end shots to post here for the annual Do-you-think-she's-pregnant questions. Then I accidentally emailed them to my brother-in-law.

Needless to say, he was rather confused! (And amused, I'm sure, that his brother married the crazy goat lady. ;-) )


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Thank you! I love her so much, but I am so ready for her to be lovey again lol. All she cares about with me right now is that I feed her other then that she doesn't want me touching her. She is deff just uncomfortable. She was doing it some more today and sometimes they came with poo lol She still has her ligs though so I am going to take her back down to be with her friends. I am heading to church soon because my girl scout troop is doing some girl scout Sunday thing and will be up in front of everyone so I can't miss it. I originally said I wanted her to birth on the 17th but realized I am going to be an hour away for at least 4 hours so yeah lol most likely will be the day she pulls it though lol


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I just put my deposit down on a doe in milk I am so excited!! Ruby and my buck both come from Sasurrare Salix Whispering willow and I am getting another. She doesn't have the best FF udder so I am hoping it is better 2nd freshening but if not my buck should give her kids a great chance. I originally was on a waiting list for a kid but she ended up with a ton of bucks and I still could have gotten a kid, but this is my chance to be able to start a little sooner.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How exciting.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I'm freaking out. It looks like she has dried blood. I noticed a tiny bit on her tail yesterday but today it is actually dried and hanging out.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

It is the best picture I could get. She is being really lovey rubbing her head into me and resting it on me but I am no where near allowed her belly or back end.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Praying it's labor. Seems a little more is coming out now. It is a very cold rainy day and the building I was going to have her kid in is not delivered yet.


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

Good luck! I'm hoping for one today too.


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

How old is she?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

11 months possibly a year.


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

A lot of people breed for a doe to kid at a year, I wouldn't worry too much. I like to wait to breed until they are a year. But different strokes for different folks. I'll bet she will do great. 

How's is she now?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I think it is better to give them time to grow too. She is just bleating a lot and acting lost.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Is it actual blood coming out? Or is it more amber colored goo?


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Is she nesting? What color is it are you sure it's not an amber yellow color?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

It's like a brownish red color? I'm not sure it is blood just what I would think old blood kind of looks like. It has clearish mixed in it though. She's not nesting but she is pacing and yelling like she is lost or looking for something. I am sitting right by my window she will come yell at me or my door. She finally just laid down and this is only the second time she has laid down today. She was like this the day before yesterday too and then last night she was out cold resting well and today she is back to not being able to rest. She is actually stressing me out. The mom in me feels like I need to do something.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I am not seeing any obvious contractions either.


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

I would go out with her I know it's cold but see if she's dialated if she is you'll probably have to pull a kid. If she's not dialated then just watch her today. Definitely don't leave the house if you can help it.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I'm going to sit with her now. Looked like she pushed a few times lying down and got back up and did it again. Shes being super loud she is scared I think


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Talk to hear tell her she's ok that will help


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

I had a doe 2 years ago who was screaming all day long non stop! She finally delivered in the middle of the night. I knew something was up because she was the quietest goat I had ever had.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Could be labor. Even my most skittish does really appreciate someone with them when they're in labor. I will sit down with them and hold their heads during contractions....

I agree, talking to them calmly definitely is helpful! Good luck!


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

Updates?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She is now back to losing regular color mucus and even though I have her backend shaved she is managing to get this nasty stuff on her coat. I put plastic all around her thing trying to prevent draft. She still has a good appetite so she is prob still gonna make me wait another week lol


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

So yeah that is blood in her mucus ughh and her udder grew more.


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Right now I don't think you have a problem with her aborting. But I say she will go soon!


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I am thinking like pregnant people little amounts is okay. It had went back to normal looking plug yesterday and I guess this happened sometime last night or this morning. She uses this bucket to rub her butt lol She is losing quite a bit of mucus so I am thinking within the weekend. I posted a while back when I thought she was bred and she had what looked like plug I am guessing that must have been her coming out of heat and that would put her at being due around nowish.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She would be at 150 days today or tomorrow if I go by that estimate


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

With the way that her udder looks, I would say she's going to go soon! 

Is she constantly leaking blood in her mucous? Just in case of an emergency (because I can't remember), do you have a vet for an emergency?

My goats have never had a discharge....ever.....before delivery. I know it's a normal thing...I just have nothing to compare Butterscotch to


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I do not, but I have one I have heard great things about that I would call but he is not close. I have a couple of mentors near me too. She does not have blood in all her mucus thankfully. I brought her inside my bathroom because she looked like she had a contractions and was dripping something. My kids are out of school today and everyone is bouncing off the walls. This really sucks


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Goat mentors are the best! I don't know what I would do without mine!

Think bouncing baby goats.....bouncing baby goats! It sucks now, but you will get through this and it will be amazing 

My husband tells me with every pregnant got I have had, "Goats have been having babies for centuries. Their instincts know more than you do."


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She's in labor. I'm in bathroom with her and gave my kids my laptop. My oldest should keep it safe lol she's in beginning pushing stages and locking lips a lot and her eyes are dozing


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Well now she's just chewing cud lol her vulva slit thing us way longer right now so I know I'm not crazy and she's ready


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

She sounds ready! My last doe was chewing her cud 5 minutes after me having to pull a huge buckling! These goats are amazing 

Good luck!!!! Remember the 30 rule. 30 minutes of pushing and 30 minutes between kids. You can bounce her once the first one is born to see if there's more.


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

Good luck! Post pictures


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Her ligs are gone. I didn't check that earlier, but she has contractions and goo comes out. She seems to have intermissions between lol The 30 mins of pushing rule is like after the water really breaks though right?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Blood in the discharge can be bad.

Has she been pawing, getting up and down, just not pushing?


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## jehouck8 (Mar 6, 2017)

I've never had a does water break until the sac and or legs are clearly coming out. I've delivered 10 births- total of 16 kids I think.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If there is a dystocia, then water can break with no visible sign of a kid. The 30 minutes of pushing is any active labor.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> If there is a dystocia, then water can break with no visible sign of a kid. The 30 minutes of pushing is any active labor.


Is dystocia a malpresentation of the kid? Would you wash up and go in?

I'm asking because mine have never had bloody discharge until after and the water has always broken with a kid behind it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, to be safe and in doubt, wash up and go in and check.

Each doe can be different showing blood or not.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She pushes sometimes but other times is like she's not doing anything but it seems the kid could be pushing and causing pressure because sometimes she has a contraction and will pee just a tiny bit.


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

She has been pawing and then laying down but she doesn't act stressed. Like when she lays down she lays down for a while. It's not super up and down. Should I really check her?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

Okay we are not dilated. I hit the second hole at about my knuckles.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm hoping for progress for her (and you!). Maybe others have some suggestions or since she isn't dilated, it's still just wait and see?


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## Tbs4life2000 (Mar 10, 2016)

Hope something happens for her soon.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Any news?


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## Lisalisa89 (Oct 18, 2016)

I was avoiding updating because it was bad, and I just don't want to talk about it anymore. The baby was just way to big. I had reached in when I decided she was struggling. I found both hooves and the face. One hoof and face were way up and not making any movement towards the front. The baby would suckle fingers when I was in there too so I know she was okay but as the hooves came half out the head just couldn't. There was just no way. We pulled for a long time and honestly were about to take B outside to put her down. I bawled my eyes out. My husband decided we would just cut the baby who was just clearly not alive after all of that anyways. So we pulled the neck out as much as possible and cut it and then I reached in and grabbed the head out after getting the baby out. Beautiful pure black doeling with just a white spot on her head. I am traumatized, and have no idea how B is still eating, drink and walking at this point and somehow still loves me. She lost her placenta pretty soon after thankfully but I basically treated her with everything I possibly could that I have on hand. I didn't get to bed until after midnight last night and I was out of coffee this morning. I went in though and cleaned up my bathroom more. Swept, bleached the floor and laid down more fresh towels for her. She wants to be with me but I have carpet and I could get a diaper on her with the udder being there and all.


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear of your ordeal. How horrible! But you did all you could and at least mama is fine. Hugs....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. 

Heads back are the hardest to straighten out. It can take a long time. A lamb puller if used correctly helps a lot. 

It is a very sad situation when the outcome turns out that way. 

For mamma, be sure to milk her, she needs to be watched and relieved. Then dried off if you do not want her milk. 
Colostrum can be frozen for emergencies.


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## Realtree2429 (Feb 4, 2017)

Oh, I am so very, very sorry!!!! I can't imagine that!

Virtual hugs......


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh no, I am so so sorry


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## Tbs4life2000 (Mar 10, 2016)

We had to go through a c section. Due to too big a baby not even a month ago. I'm glad she is doing ok.


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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

Oh my God. I am so so sorry. That is horrific. Hoping that Butterscotch recovers quickly and that everyone's memory of that event fades quickly!


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