# Critique/Judge my does ---- PLEASE!



## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Listed Oldest to youngest.....

"Ginger" (Photos taken at 15 months)









http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... CF8363.jpg

Rear - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... erRear.jpg

Front - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... rFront.jpg

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"Azriel" (photos at 8 months old)










Rear - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... 974068.jpg

Front - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... bafecd.jpg

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"Janna" (photos taken at 5 months old)










Rear - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... ee453f.jpg

Front -

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"Isabel" (photos taken at 4 month old)










Rear - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... f56065.jpg

Front - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... a24fbb.jpg

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"Nestea" (Photos taken at 5 months old)










Rear - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... 2060bb.jpg

Front - http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/ ... 94fc7e.jpg

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Please tell me what you think! Place them in order of who you like best (And why, if you know). I am always looking for more opinions on my goats! It is so hard because I see them every day and it's hard to write them up on their pages!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Chelsea,

I am sorry, but I have no idea about conformation. Although I think that Isabel and then Nestea look the nicest.

And Jenna gets most charismatic -  You can see her personality in her!


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

1. Azriel
2. Janna
3. Nestea


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## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

i'm no goat judge (i fall for color and personalities!!!!) but you said that azriel is quite good. with that in mind, the shoulder area in her seems much deeper than ginger, for instance. nestea looks good in this area, too.
now....it could be someone will say shoulders are azriel's WEAK spot, i don't know. that is just where i see the biggest difference just looking at them.
pretty girls...i love isabel.
enjoy


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## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

just looked again....i'd be happy with any of them, but i am not showing mine. these are just photos, too, and cooperation is a help. yeah, right. anyway..........


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## morganslil1 (Nov 13, 2007)

I dont know any thing about showing but....
I like Ginger and Janna the best you have some beautiful girls.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks! Photos are kinda tough, because you can't feel them, and that (to me) is an important part of judging.


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

it is an important part of judging. I used to judge livestock in school and placed animals on how they looked because I was too shy to go up and feel the animals but I didn't do too bad. We did judge goats though..only, sheep, breeding cattle, dairy cattle, and market hogs.

Now horses, I can judge. The are judged on appearance so they are easy.


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## Sara (Oct 5, 2007)

I think Ginger would place first, she looks to be very level with a nice topline, and nicely blending from head to toe.
Then Isabel and Janna would tie for second they are both nice and level


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## ozarksvalley (Nov 22, 2007)

1st- Ginger. Ginger has a nice, uphill topline, her pasterns are short and she has a nice length. She is wide with excellent rear angulation. Her rump is level and she has very nice dairy capacity. I would like to see her shoulders blend more into her neck. Very beautiful doe. 

2nd- Janna. Janna excells in general appearance. Janna is long and feminine, she stands uphill and she has very nice dairy capacity. She looks to be wide, with very good rear width and angulation. 

3rd- Isabel. Isabel is very long, has a feminine neck and has an uphill topline. She has good dairy capacity. She has very nice rear width and angulation.

4th- Azriel. She may have placed higher if she wasn't so fuzzy.  She has nice length, though I would probably like to see a more feminine neck. (her coat may be hiding a feminine one, I can't tell) Her rump looks a little steep. She looks like she has a very nice dairy capacity and an excellent width.

5th- Nestea. She's squatting some so I can't tell a whole lot. She appears to have an uphill topline, good dairy capacity and width. She also has a very nice feminine neck. I would like to see shorter pasterns on her, and a more even rump.

Very, very nice does. They are all beautiful!!! (and Janna seems to know it....  )


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks, I just cannot wait to clip them in the spring! And get them into the ring


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

im assuning the girls are all dry yearlings. 
I like your Janna the best, She has a look at my attitude doesn't she? 
I woupld place her one over two because she is By far the widest doe, she has a long dairy neck a pretty head and lots of width between her hocks she is very uphill and thight in the shoulders. She has good length from hips to pins. She will grant a bit of smoothness of blending through the shoulders to Isabel. 
Isabel would be my second choice, she is a very pretty doe to look at. She has nice generl aperance. She has probably the best set of shoulders out of all of them. She is very deep bodied and feminine. She has tremendous length from hips to pins. She will grant a higher wider escutchen to Ginger.
Ginger will be my third choice, though a very Long tall and open doe, she doesn't have quite the angulation to her real legs as the other two does. She is uphill and very smooth over her shoulders. I would also like to see her a little tighter at her point of elbow. 
Azriel will be my fourth choice, She too is a very uphill doe, she has a nice deep brisket but i ould like to see her a little straighter in the legs, she toes out a bit. I would also like to see tighter toes on this doe. 
Though a very feminine doe Nestea just doesn;t have the maturity to move her further up the line. She is very uphill and has a nice long dairy neck, she is a bit steep in the rump. I would also like to see a bit longer body on this doe. She does toe out, but she apears to have one of the highest escutchens out of all of the does.

Hope this helps
beth


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks! No only ginger is a yearling, Azriel is 8 months, Janna was about 5 months in the photo, Isabel was 4 months and Nestea was 5 months in the photo.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

age and size plays a big factor as does maturity. But if they had each won their class, and i had to place them down the line that would be what i would stick with.
i really like my two top does the best. I think they are going to take you places, as will their kids when you get them bred. 
beth


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you! I have shown Izzy and Janna, as well as Ginger. They have all placed first atleast once (out of a total of 3 shows) The last show I went to the judge made a face and said she DID NOT like Janna's escutchen, she said, and I quote "uhg, this doe is very wide, I hope she can fill that space with a large udder" and something else that I forgot. But she thought she was too wide......


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I wouldn't say she is too wide but i would like to see her higher in the ecutchen. If you look at her escutchen compaired to nestea, nestea is definatly higher. It is carried higher more up towards her vulva, while nestea is the youngest doe she very well might mature out to have the nicest udder. You want the udder carried very high and wide. Janna won't carry her rear udder as well up into her excutchen as nestea will.
beth


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Yeah, I know that, Nestea has a very high escutchen, Janna has won in the past due to her escutchen. It just goes to show different judges like different things lol.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Side shots I like Janna the best, with Isabel second. 

Janna has the sharpest shoulders, better extension in the brisket, level yet uphill topline and a nice rump with lots of dairy character. She is also deep barrelled. Isabel was an extremely close second being that Janna was just a little more refined and a little more uphill.

Rear shots my first choice again is Janna with Ginger second. Nestea was hard to tell with the hairy rear. I know how that goes so we'll have to see them all over again in the spring clipped. 

Isabel's escutcheon is actually a little lower than Janna and Ginger's but she still has the nice horseshoe shape. She should look awseome in milk.

Front view's I liked Isabel and Azreil. I couldn't tell due to the black coat on Azreil. I know how hard it is to photograph black animals too! LOL Anyway, they have the widest chest floor and straitest front legs. Ginger next, her heart girth could fill in more as she matures making her wider.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Ashley! I know I have said this MANY MANY times lol but I can't wait to see them all mature, and clipped! I'll have to wait a whole 5 or 6 months!


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh and I hear sharp withers and sharp shoulders, I know withers are on their back (like horses) but what is a sharp shoulder?


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## fritzie (Oct 6, 2007)

o.k. this is what i like & most of the reasons are the same as beth
1 janna
now for 2nd & 3rd well for 
2 isabel
now to be fair to ginger she lookes posty in the rear legs & her rump is a little tepper than i like but it could be because her front legs are not under her & her rear legs are to set to far back so i would put her 3rd.
one thing to keep in mind when you go to a show is that it is that persons opinion on that day. i had a judge in may put my doe up grand & then in aug she put the same doe last in her class. that was her opinion on that day.
i would show any one of your does at any show. they are all really nice & once they udder up that will make a big difference of what they do.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks, Ginger HATES being set-up so she was throughing a huge fit. She was on a hill that made her look posty I have another pic of her









This one is on a hill too, but it shows her angulation a bit more..


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

LOl better picture but you can tell she really didn't want to be there. Janna and isabel are still my favorites. I will be interested to see how your little black doe turns out. i think they will all do well in the showring someday. 
You have some really nice does.
What do you have for a buck?
beth


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I have 5 bucks hee hee. All photos at about 10 weeks.

Gateway Hollywood Nights (Lost Valley genetics) http://muddycreekgoats.com/Buck-Hollywood.html









Kids Corral CVF Rewind http://muddycreekgoats.com/Buck-Rewind.html









Kids Corral LB Blue 2 The Max http://muddycreekgoats.com/Buck-Blue.html









Rosasharn UP Bronze Copper http://muddycreekgoats.com/Buck-Copper.html









Crookedcedar Farm Kazam (Caesar's Villa) http://muddycreekgoats.com/Buck-Kazaam.html


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## fritzie (Oct 6, 2007)

oh that is much better of ginger. yes her angulation does look much better & so does her rump. but i am going with 
1 jana
2 isabel
3 ginger. i just love jana. i also love how you do there tails when you clip. i can never get mine to look that fluffy. nice looking bucks to.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

i like hollywood nighs and kazam, rosasharn has some really nice stuff too. Have you Ever looked in DD tiny Toes or the Camanna herd both in oregon? CAmanna has some really nice does. I showed for her this last summer. Really nice does. Her doe molly is my favorite. She was second in her class but i liked her better then the doe (also camanna) that stood in front of her. Im looking into getting a nigie buck to start a mini alpine line, and was looking at the Camanna herd.

beth


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## Sara (Oct 5, 2007)

Cammanna has amazing animals! I want some very bad!


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

They have some nice animals. I love Twin Creeks, Rosasharn and Lost Valley, as well as Kids Corral lol. I have some Does reserved out of Lost Valley and Kids Corral. I am planning on reserving several from Twin Creeks and Rosasharn next year.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Camanna used a really pretty rasasharn buck this past breeding season. I just looked at her reservation list. Filling up fast. But i would still like to see what she has available this spring as far as bucks go. 
beth


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## Sara (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm hoping to buy an adult doe from her after she freshens.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Your bucks are beautiful!


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks you


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Your welcome.Your does are pretty too.


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

Muddy Creek Farm said:


> They have some nice animals. I love Twin Creeks, Rosasharn and Lost Valley, as well as Kids Corral lol. I have some Does reserved out of Lost Valley and Kids Corral. I am planning on reserving several from Twin Creeks and Rosasharn next year.


I can't wait to see your new animals MCF! I have several animals reserved as well- one from you, one from Rosasharn (haven't picked which doe yet...thinking Bitta), and one from Dragonfly Farm (again, haven't decided...thinking Penumbra or Chiaroscuro). I've been saving for MONTHS, lol. I finally found a place that rented a plot of land to me. Now I can actually have a herd. (Sorry for rambling).


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Why thank you! I can't wait to see my new does as well! I LOVE, LOVE , LOVE Chiaroscuro! Bitta is a good choice too!


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

Yeah, me too. Surprisingly, there are no reservations on her kids. She's going to be really great someday. From whom have you reserved kids? Lost Valley Goats are to die for- I can't afford shipping yet, but they just wonderful (as I'm sure you now )


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I have reserved kids from Celebrity, Obie and Madison, although I am only wanting 2 kid from there lol. And I have reserved kids from Kids Corral out of Carmello, Reeses and maybe Selene (I forgot lol)


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow! You are going to have a spectacular herd come 2008! Not that you don't already, of course. I have long thought you one of the most conscientious breeders around.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

That means alot, thank you. I think you have an awesome start to your herd! Did you buy one of Viola's doelings? Viola is gorgeous! I am getting one from Silly Goose, I don't know when though.....


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

You are? That's awesome! Silly Goose is sooo nice in person, the photos don't do her jusitce at all. Yep, I have a Viola doe- she is the sweetest little girl. I got her the day before violaa went on to get 3 RGChs  I'm really happy with her.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Ok here's how I place(going only by side shots because my internet is slow tonight, but I do remember seeing rear shots)

1. Isabel
2. Janna
3. Nestea
4. Ginger
5. Azriel

Isabel is very lovely, very long, dairy, great general appearance and great body capacity. She has sharp withers that blend smoothly into her long neck, a very nice topline, level and strong, her rump is very long and has a great angle and shape from hips to pins. She places over Janna for her general appearance.

Janna is also very nice, she is dairy, long, well blended, she has nice withers that blend smoothly into her neck, a strong topline, she has a nice rump but it does not appear to be as long as Isabels. She places over Nestea for her stronger topline.

Nestea does have a strong topline, but it does not have the strength that Janna's does. SHe is very upstanding, has very sharp withers that blend smoothly into her neck, she does appear to have a steep rump but that may just be an optical illusion to me. She places over Ginger for her angularity.

Ginger is a very nice doe, she has an 'up hill' topline. Her withers are sharp and blend smoothly into her neck, her neck does not appear to be as long as the does ahead of her. She also appears to have a short rump. She places over Azriel for her general appearance.

Not to take anything away from Azriel, she is very pretty, but since she isn't clipped, she seems to be 'hiding' a lot of her good points. She is very long, has a strong topline, her withers appear to be sharp, but I don't see length of neck in that photo to match it. Her rump appears to be a little steep but that may be an optical illusion.

I'll do your bucks tommorrow :wink:


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