# Help,sick dog symptoms just don't add up



## pinefarm

Help!!! We ARE under vet care. My 7 yr spayed coonhound has symptoms that aren't adding up. First let me say she is a rescue from a animal hoarder so has emotional issues. HATES the vet,any and all vets,so vet care is very stressful.Started with vulva clear/white discharge. Next vomiting and bloody diarrhea. A day later hives. ** side note:she gets out several times daily for as long as she wants. She will hold her pee and poop for days,until she gets hives. Relieves herself and almost instantly they go away. This is carried over from habits prior to her rescue. So we did a round of antibiotics for overgrowth of stomach bacteria,probiotics. Poops back to normal but hives every day after eating the very high quality food she has been on for a year. We switched food,switched probiotics and started a bladder supplement in case the discharge was secondary to bladder issue. Great for a week. Out of the blue her lips swelled up,hives and bloody poops. She gets nothing but dog food,is taken out on a leash and can't/hasn't got into anything. No changes of detergent ,cleaners, toys,and Christmas decor wasn't even out when this started. During bad spells gets boiled chicken. Vets getting nowhere,what could all of this be? It's been almost three weeks of this roller coaster . I don't want to keep dragging her to the vet,cost is no issue,it's just very hard on her. Suggestions?


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## pinefarm




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## pinefarm

That was last week. Today hives are on her face only


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## happybleats

her body sounds very stressed...I would consider pulling her off dog food completely. Keep her on a bland diet of boiled chicken or canned tuna, boiled potato( sweet potates are great) and kidney beans, (this is what my vet had my dog on who was allergic to EVERYTHING!!).Do not make changes in her diet...keep it bland and simple. Might try either flax oil or coconut oil once daily as well....Through her gut will come healing..Daily probiotics and a doggie vit. mineral paste to bring balance. I would get some Lavender Ess. oil to help with calmness...its safe to diffuse or put on her feet pads...let her smell it first, if she turns her nose to it, dilute before using...other wise safe undiluted is ok. Lavender is also helpful for hives...which in her case is stomach related...add organic raw ACV with mother in it to an extra water dish, about 1/8 cup to a gallon to start...keep fresh water as well...

best wishes


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## goathiker

My suggestion would be to put her on a prey model raw diet. Hounds tend to be a bit touchy, like my pit. Cooked foods have poisons that some dogs just can't handle. 
If you are willing and need help to switch her, let me know.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

What is the ingredient list of both foods? I'm thinking she has developed an allergy to an ingredient that appears in both brands of food.

ETA: Took to long to read it, they beat me to it :lol: I third a change in diet.


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## deerbunnyfarm

I agree with goathiker to try raw. It is a touchy thing to switch over when you have a dog with a sensitive stomach, so do research first, but it might be what she needs. 

Wish I could help more, poor puppy!!


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## pinefarm

We did raw a few years back and she didn't thrive on it. Just did not hold weight. My other dog did very well,until pancrease insuffency and inflammatory bowel disease forced us back to kibble. Not an easy choice to make. His food must be soaked in pancreatic enzyme to begin breaking it down. You can't soak bones and meat. We did raw well over a year,found a great balance of different meats,bone,organ meat,tripe etc. We were using Earthborn Holistics,bison and egg are the main protein. What we have been useing now is duck,I'll have to look that up. We don't switch foods often or quickly. It's been a very long road dealing with foods so I'm a little educated there at least!


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## pinefarm

Good thinking with the lavender. We used that a few years back on her,she's high energy! So hopefully she still tolerates it fine. I'll start the ACV too,I swear that stuff cures everything! We are useing vetriscience labs probiotics.


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## pinefarm

This is what we were feeding,we originally suspected vaginitis, that's why its at the top on another page! I was googling!


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## pinefarm

This is what I gave this week,it was the only thing I could find in a pinch that seemed acceptable. We were thinking of switching to Acana but that's on hold now. We were just in the beginnings of researching it


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## goathiker

That's all starch and inflammatory oils. By the time you add the peas (dried of course) and the pea protein, you have a bag of pea soup and oil with a little low grade meat added... Canola oil is GMO too. Bison is hard to digest as well. The peas are a marketing ploy for grain free, they cause stones in male dogs...
Have you tried Frozen foods?


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## RaineyDayFarms

Poor girl.  I was going to recommend a diet change as well, but since raw didn't work I'll retract that lol. Often with food allergies you will notice hair thinning, mostly around the muzzle, oily smelly skin and stomach issues(which she did have). I think thats probably a good brand of food. Sometimes one that's more fish based is better with allergy dogs. Generally when we see hives like that its environment related. It can be extremely hard to pin point what though. It could be that she has something else going on that's messing with her immune system. They have some natural immune boosting supplements that I've used before with good results, think its called bertes? It might be best to talk to your vet first.
I think if it continues I'd seriously look at seeing a dermatologist! And believe me I know how hard it is to have a dog that hates the vet. I feel the pain  I hope you can figure out what's going on and get her over this soon. Please keep us updated.


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## pinefarm

Frozen is extremely expensive in my area. I always figured home made raw was best. I'll spend a lot on dog food but the frozen I have access to would be several hundred dollars a month. I just can't do that unfortunately. Goathiker do you mean the new food or old food I was feeding is so bad? The new stuff was as good as I could find in a pinch. Not my first choice.Other than raw what do you suggest? I used to be stuck on raw %100 nothing else no matter what. As I said going back to kibble was very hard. It was something I just had to put my feelings aside and do what my dogs needed though. As I said you can't soak meat and I just wasn't happy with her condition on it. I know kibble isn't anywhere near a natural diet, but for me it is what it is.


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## goathiker

What about freeze dried? It could be soaked in the enzyme water to reconstitute it, weighs almost nothing if it needs ordered?


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## MoonShadow

My Saint Bernard(his name is Bernard lol) battled super horrible hot spots and eye infections triggered by food allergies for a really long time(pretty sure it was brought on by the GMO's in the food mainly the corn and soy) until I started making homemade dog food, the hot spot where getting so bad that he was about ready to be put on medication for them and was on meds for his eye infections. As for the homemade dog food , I did a lot of research before hand and my end recipe consisted mainly of wild caught Alaskan salmon(in the can in natural salmon oil) organic pumpkin, organic Sweet potato, Nutritional yeast, a dash of ACV, and a dash of beet root powder with ground rice or rolled oats. For snacks he would get raw eggs with the shell, apples, carrots and natural beef bones to chew on , things like that. He also gets natural dog vitamins. Within a couple weeks his hot spots where almost gone( its been about 8 months now and they are completely gone) His eye infections are improving and he's off the eye meds, his fur is sooooooo soft and shiny, it has never been this shiny and soft before, he does not stink bad at all now(he had a really putrid smell to him before the food change, baths all the time) and he had way more energy. Our dog vet said she was surprised at how healthy he was(and how well behaved..apparent all the saint Bernard they have met where mean and grumpy lol) the vet also said he was in remarkably perfect health for his breed and age(he's 6)!!! Making our own dog food really did great things for our dog, I also have started feeding it to my English springer spaniel puppy(Fernna Mona Lisa. . . yes that her real name lol) and she's doing great on it as well. My grandma also started using my recipe on her 2 small dogs who she was worried about because of sub-par health and she says they are doing fantastic(been feeding it about 3 months), she says that they are soft and shiny and have loads of energy. I think the main this about homemade dog food is tweaking it to your dogs personal needs while also making sure all nutritional needs are being met. I didn't just find a ready recipe online I gathered my info and formulated my own. Also knowing the foods your dog can handle and safely eat is huge, it will be your starting base, it for sure needs to be kept as simple as possible and as organic/natural as possible, especially in the beginning. Haha I know im just rambling on and you probably know all this already, but Thought i might as well add this just in case it helps at all.
I wish you good luck and hope your pup gets better soon!!


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## pinefarm

Like this?


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## pinefarm

Sorry that's probably blurry,it's Origen freeze dried


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## goathiker

Orijen is great, I have fed Stella and Chewy's with good results as well. In fact my ferret is on S&C frozen raw rabbit, duck, and chicken (rotating diet). 
I have 5 dogs here and feed 4 different types of dog food :lol:


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## Ranger1

Have you tried a home COOKED diet? Maybe she'd handle that better than raw. Best of luck.


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## goathiker

She's having trouble with kibbles ( :lol: trouble with tribbles :lol: )

Were you feeding PMR or BARF?


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## Steampunked

I know it's probably no chance, but there isn't tradescantia around where you are, is there?


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## pinefarm

Closer to PMR but no hair,hooves,teeth etc. Did not get whole fruits and veggie or supplements. Only tripe and stomach content. Anyhow,that was a while back a is not related to this situation. I did not cook the diet either. They need the enzymes that the raw provides and cooked bones are dangerous. Looked up the tradescantia and I don't think we have that,but good suggestion. She has little access to much out doors our other dog has so many issues their outside time is very limited. We play in the house instead! Wondering if the Origin kibble is close to the freeze dried,I could do maybe 50/50.


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## pinefarm

So why would she get hives when she holds her pee and poo so long? Is it a toxic response? I just wonder because she gets hives often when she holds it,now she has loose stool and has them. For her can intestinal upset bring on the hives and not a specific trigger or allergy?


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## SalteyLove

Could the hives be a stress response to holding her bladder/bowels? And I mean, not directly caused by it, but by the stress hormones coarsing through her body?

Just how stressed is this dog? I mean - does she live in a constant state of high arousal? There are some really great books for anxious or fearful dogs. These books will also offer helps for desensitizing the animal to the vets. A few of the best are: The Cautious Canine (McConnell), Scaredy Dog! (Brown), A Guide to Living With and Training a Fearful Dog (Jacobs), and Control Unleashed (McDevitt).

I will second the vote for Stella and Chewy dehydrated raw food! But I haven't used it for dogs, only for my FIV+ cat. It is just a fantastic food. BUT I think it would be way too cost prohibitive for a dog that size. onlynaturalpet.com tends to have the best price on Stella & chewy.


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## pinefarm

I'll check that food out thanks! Onlynaturalpet is a great site! No she isn't a stressed dog. Stressed about the vet yes. Poop holding issues yes, but that's been for years. Everyday life she is happy and playful. She was about two when we got her so most of her impressionable years were with the hoarder. She also bounced around foster homes that she didnt fit in well either. We committed to her, weird ways and all. We don't have kids so we can take on the cases that may not be suited or safe for others. She has come a long way, as did my other dog.


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## nicolemackenzie

Hmm that's weird.

I think you have multiple issues going on right now.

As far as picking a good pick something with as few ingredients as possible regardless of what brand you pick. Duck is pretty similar to chicken and buffalo is pretty similar to beef if those are allergies.

You can feed the most expensive food you can find but it won't do any good if she's sensitive to one of the Ingredients. Some of the fancy foods have really long lists of ingredients and even if they say they are a fish based diet low and behold 10 ingredients down the list is chicken... So really read your labels whatever you choose.

Cut out ALL other foods/treats for 3-6 months.

Has bloodwork or a urinalysis been done? Does her hair around her vulva look reddish brown? How is her coat in general?

Have you tried Benadryl? Or cetirizine for the hives?

The hives sound like environmental. Dogs can develop allergies over time.

Usually food allergies they chew their feet and get chronic ear infections and anal gland issues. You see the reddish brown fur.

And then she may have a chronic vaginitis or UTI.

It may be uncomfortable to urinate. Or since she has anxiety something may be making her fearful to urinate.


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## pinefarm

We do Benadryl for the hives usually. Seems to help a little but takes quite a while. She gets no treats ever. Our other dog has allergies and tons of issues so no treats ever or table scraps. Very careful of that. Her vulva is swollen and very red. Still discharge. They did no tests didn't even test the bloody fecal sample I took. My gut says this is not a food allergy. I agree with saltylove that hives are a response to the bowl issues. Hives was the last symptom. Discharge, vomit, diarrhea, then two days later hives . I may need a better vet here


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## goathiker

You can make her poop daily, the same way we used to make the Huskies poop before every race...


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## pinefarm

Ok now that's new! Forgive my dumbness but how?


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## nicolemackenzie

pinefarm said:


> We do Benadryl for the hives usually. Seems to help a little but takes quite a while. She gets no treats ever. Our other dog has allergies and tons of issues so no treats ever or table scraps. Very careful of that. Her vulva is swollen and very red. Still discharge. They did no tests didn't even test the bloody fecal sample I took. My gut says this is not a food allergy. I agree with saltylove that hives are a response to the bowl issues. Hives was the last symptom. Discharge, vomit, diarrhea, then two days later hives . I may need a better vet here


Well to start you need baseline Bloodwork, urinalysis and a fecal. You can't diagnose without any information.

She at the least sounds like she has a vaginal infection which needs to be taken care of. But need to know if it's in her bladder as well.

If vet visits are so stressful maybe a light sedative would help.

You want a vet you are comfortable with. Some teams may be better at gently caring for frightened patients. Going slow. Drawing blood from a back leg while the owner is at her head comforting her. Not putting her on the scary table. Letting you get the urine sample. You'd need to clean her vulva gently and get the sample to the vet immediately. It will not be diagnostic if it's old and not refrigerated. If in fridge too long crystals will form. So get the sample right before going in.

Antihistamines are very helpful for some dogs but not all. The dose is 1mg per pound for diphenhydramine every 8-12 hours. Cetirizine is more effective but I don't know the dose sorry.

What are the names of the antibiotics they have tried? Probably metronidazole for the diarrhea?

EDIT

I'd start with a urine and fecal and then do blood depending on the results


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## nicolemackenzie

My dog goes to the bathroom on command. Positive reinforcement


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## pinefarm

Yes metronidazole, got a belly ache give em metronidazole is what the vets think. Drawing attention before after it during her doing her business isn't helpful. She's no regular dog that you can train to go on command. If you say Daisy go pee she comes right back inside. We find peace quiet and ample opportunity work best. Good vets are hard to find around here so we'll be looking for another even if it's a drive away. Right now I'm useing who I can get her to quickly but will be looking around later today for better options


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## nicolemackenzie

Yeah. I must say most of the time metro is great so a good place to start. But it won't do anything for urine or skin issues.

Call around for sure. You can get a good idea about a place from their customer service and kindness over the phone. Maybe ask your friends who they are seeing. Even a specific vet within a practice may be a better fit than another in the same practice. Ask to speak to a tech. Let them know her personality and the trouble she's had with vet visits and what they would plan to make her visit more pleasant. 

These conversations may seem tedious but go with someone who gives you their time even though they don't know you and who obviously cares based on how they speak to you.

And get your current vet to send over her records including dr notes and tests she's had at least a day or two before your visit so the new folks can really read through before your exam otherwise it eats into your exam time.

Write down any questions you have so you don't forget during the appointment.

Keep a journal of when she has symptoms and bring it with you to the visit


Not every dog will void on command and that's fine. Do what works for your dog.

There are so many opinions out there. Do what works for Daisy and what works for your family.


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## pinefarm

Thank you nicolemackenzie and everyone for being so supportive and offering tons of suggestions, it's been way more helpful than the vet. I'll keep you posted


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## nicolemackenzie

Good luck! I know it can be frustrating. I hope she's feeling better soon!


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## pinefarm

Got an emergency appointment at the vet. Came home and she can't go 5 min without pooping straight blood. Throwing up now too. They were just going to have a tech do bloodwork,but we changed it and got in to see another one of their vets we haven't seen yet. Could this now be HGE? If so I can't let them drag their feet like they have been,she'll be dead by morning


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Is it foul smelling? HGE is usually very foul smelling diarrhea. Could she have gotten into something? UTD on shots?


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## happybleats

prayers sent!! Hope the vet can help her..

best wishes


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## nicolemackenzie

HGE is bloody diarrhea. She's going to get dehydrated fast. 

Blood work for sure with a manual differential ( blood smear) to look for regeneration of RBC's or other changes.

A radiograph may be needed to rule out foreign body

She will need supportive care to stop the vomiting. Such as cerenia, anzemet, or famotidine. She will probably need fluid therapy.

If it were my dog is want her at a 24 hour facility on iv fluids. I'd do bloodwork u/a and probably a radiograph.


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## pinefarm

She does have HGE. Not sure original cause. She is being hospitalized. She's not been easy for them to handle though so we'll take one step at a time . Blew several veins just trying to get blood samples. They don't want to sedate her but may need to


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## deerbunnyfarm

I'm sorry for you and your sweet pup! Keep us updated.


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## nicolemackenzie

Thinking of you


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## pinefarm

Were at the vet 5 hours. They had to sedate her two times and she still was fighting. This girl has guts so hopefully that's what pulls her through this . Thank you all for your help


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## CrazyDogLady

Hope your girl recovers well.


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## nicolemackenzie

I hope she is feeling better today


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## happybleats

sending good thoughts!!


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## pinefarm

Blood work is coming back better each time. Still slow but better than the wrong direction. Not doing well with the vets and techs still having to be sedated quite often to be handled. She ate today and held it down and the loose bloody stool has really let up. Hope to get her home by Christmas, really missing her


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## nicolemackenzie

Awe glad she's getting better. Sedation is better than feeling so frightened but I wish some of the techs I knew were there because they are awesome with frightened pups. I hope she has some kind techs there of her own.

I bet she'll be home within a day or so as long as she continues to respond well.

I'll be thinking of you


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## pinefarm

Got to visit her today ! She seems to be improving. They are trying oral meds tomorrow to see if we can get her hone and just care for her there. It's three antibiotics,anti nausea meds. If she holds them down and doesn't spit them out we can bring her home in a day or two. Still some blood in the stool,they want that to resolve first too. Loose is ok,blood isn't and she'll have to stay. Got to get her home for Santa!


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## Goats Rock

Sending good thoughts!


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## nicolemackenzie

Praying the last of it clears up! And stays away!


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## pinefarm

She pulled the IV out yesterday morning so they sent her home with pills instead if resetting it. I'm thrilled she is home but the meds are a bit much for home care. The pills are workable,it's the liquid Meds that's giving us trouble. Six different things to give round clock. Treating a goat for polio was easier! We are home for a few days at least so I can give her all the attention and patience she needs. She is on that crappy prescription diet from the vet for now. Eventually we'll find something better that works for her .


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## pinefarm

Seeing improvement every day! Thank you all for your help time and support. Merry Christmas!!!


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## ksalvagno

That is great that she is doing better.


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## nicolemackenzie

Merry Christmas! Glad she will be home for the holidays!


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## happybleats

great news....she's lucky to have you!!


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