# don't know what's wrong.



## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I am a new goat owner all of 8 months and have two Fainting goat does. I have been looking for information on what could be wrong with one of my does and decided to post a thread to see if anyone else has had this issue. So let me tell you what has been happening.

First off both does look good, fur is shiny, ears & tail up, active and eating. I didn't know I had a problem until one of my does peed and her urine was reddish brown. I took a sample to the vets and the vet said it was hemoglobin in her urine not blood. I also took a fecal sample as well and she had a couple of barber worms but not enough to treat. So the vet is thinking it is anaplasmosis (parasite that attached to the red blood cells) or liver fluke. The vet gave me Agrimycin 100 and to give 7 injections every other day. After one week she still has red urine so we brought her in. They did a blood smear and nothing showed( anaplasmosis,liver fluke, copper toxicity) up though she said new red blood cells were being made. In the mean time my doe peed while we were there and it was yellow. Vet took a sample of that and there was nothing wrong. The vet did say she was very anemic almost to the point of blood transfusions but didn't want to do that if all possible. She said goats don't fare well with it. She put her on iron for 10 days and wants to check her in two weeks. When we brought her back home her urine was red again.

Well I am down to one injection and my does urine is still red but lighter. The vet and us are puzzled:shrug:. The vet thinks it is anaplasmosis more than liver flukes but she said both are uncommon where we live in SW VA. She also said it takes about three weeks for anaplasmosis to leave the body. We are at week two.

Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas ?????:wallbang:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

are you feeding her water from a bottle??? Goats can get Hemoglobinuria (Water intoxication) from too much water....

http://goat-link.com/content/view/198/33/#.VFOM_PTF92A

liver fluke is well known to cause bottle jaw one goat is anemic..any swelling under her chin? look at this chart and grade her eye lids...http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.VFONg_TF92A
where does she land?
wormy to the point of anemia usually n=but not always has other indications such as dull coat, lethargicness, ect....

check temp..101.5-103.5 is normal range...

is she pooping berries, eating and drinking just fine? active and alert?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> The symptoms that occur with anaplasmosis are usually subclinical, but clinical
> manifestations may be triggered by malnutrition and other stress conditions such as
> parasitism. The most consistent findings include inability to exercise, fever up to 107
> degrees F, depression, weakness, pale mucous membranes, difficulty breathing, and
> ...


https://www.famu.edu/cesta/main/assets/File/coop_extension/herds/Anaplasmosis_in_Goats.pdf

Hum from your discription, I dont see this being the issue..??


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thank you for the info. I checked the chart and she is a 4. That is why my vet but her on 5CC of iron drench for 10 days and wants to see her in two weeks.
She is pooping berries, eating & drinking just fine and active and alert.
Her fecal sample showed two barber worms and vet didn't want to treat for that. Her coat is shiny and soft, ears & tail up.Puzzling ????
And last she is not bottle feeding she is a 1 1/2 yr old doe.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I told the vet I was thinking it was liver flukes. We have a lot of white tail dear where we live and snails. She said it gets to cold here for the liver fluke to survive in our area. The anaplasmosis reading what you sent me doesn't sound like what she has. This is very frustrating and hard on our doe who runs from us now because of the injections.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would also be giving her daily B 12 shots to help her rebuilt red blood cells...you can also mix 50/50 ACV and water and drench 20-30 cc once daily to help speed recover.

high protien feeds, green leaves, vines, pine and cedar all help her rebuild red blood cells...

of course without figuring why she is anemic it will be hard to expect recovery if the reason is reaccuring...

there are many plants that can cause anemia as well...such onion type plants, this link suggests diffferent causes...its a good read...

http://books.google.com/books?id=lY...e&q=plants that cause anemia in goats&f=false


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Biomycin is the same medication as LA200 but with out the stinging carrier...if you need to continue these shots..I would switch over..la 200 is a very painful medication..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

snevets5 said:


> I told the vet I was thinking it was liver flukes. We have a lot of white tail dear where we live and snails. She said it gets to cold here for the liver fluke to survive in our area. The anaplasmosis reading what you sent me doesn't sound like what she has. This is very frustrating and hard on our doe who runs from us now because of the injections.


I live in sw va as well and we battled liver fluke in four does this summer. Va is nor cold enough not hot enough till off most parasites sadly.

Sadly with all this rain for the past two years it's only making parasites give times worse.

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I live in sw va as well and we battled liver fluke in four does this summer. Va is not cold enough not hot enough till off most parasites sadly.


I agree

Livefluke does not cause blood in urine however, at least not that I have ever read or seen

EDIT...


> In addition to the direct damage to the liver, there is another problem liver flukes can precipitate and that is Redwater.


I stand corrected  I read this years ago,,,,brain fog for sure...

I think I would pen the girls up and dry lot them and do a search for plants that maybe the problem...rule it out at least...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Cathy- though maybe- 

"If" liver fluke- liver fluke damages the liver causing it to not filter properly. 

That would give the kidneys a harder job and could cause the hemoglobin to be passed into the urine. 

What all did the vet check for when she did a urinalysis do you know? 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Our poor girl runs from us now with the injection we have to give her. If it is painful she will be a impossible to catch. We were thinking of taking them off that pasture and give them an area near our barn and have them in the barn so I can keep a close eye on her. Thankfully I have only two goats right now and can do that. Is there any other way to give that to her. The B12 do I have to get them from my vet?
I just read the info you sent me and they mention kale ingestion. I gave them some call several week ago. I though Kale was OK for them?
Was I wrong.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Buttercups can do it as well and we have plenty here 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> "If" liver fluke- liver fluke damages the liver causing it to not filter properly.
> 
> That would give the kidneys a harder job and could cause the hemoglobin to be passed into the urine.


Yes, if the load was heavy, I can see this can happen BUT the vet only found two eggs??..such a mystery


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

If a goat ingest large numbers though the liver can become infested with no egg count because they aren't mature enough. It results in enemia and 90% mortality rate from what I have read. The only way to diagnose is necropsy and we don't want to go there 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I need to ask the vet again to give me what she was exactly looking for. She was looking for the hemoglobin and said there was nothing the second testing when the doe peed at the vets.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Is there any test I should have the vet do on my doe when I go back in if her urine is still had a reddish tint in it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

B 12 is from the vet yes..or you can get B complex PLUS which has plenty of 12 in it to help her...


strange its just the one goat that is having a problem...if its dietary you would think both would unless one is more suseptable or enjoys plants the other will not eat..


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

someone said to give her IvomecPlus and see. I am not sure if I want to start trying all sort of stuff. I know IvomecPlus does kill liver flukes. 
I hadn't seem any buttercup in there in the summer.
Also I mentioned Kale.. does that hurt them. The only weird thing is my other doe is just fine and they eat the same stuff.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

If it were me I would have them do blood work to check her organ functions just to make sure nothing is going on there. 

My doeling had red urine but hers was from a UTI which pen g cleared up nicely. But when I saw her pee blood it scared me because the first thing I thought of was internal trama. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> If a goat ingest large numbers though the liver can become infested with no egg count because they aren't mature enough


.

Good point Samantha ..

I agree...have the run a blood panel...best course of action is to rule out cause..

Ivomec plus does kill liver fluke (1 cc per 40# sub Q, sings alot) or 1 cc per 33# oral, should not be done oral on heavy loaded goats) as will Valabzen...valbazen is oral,, so no shot : ) 1 cc per 10#...if it were me, at this point I would not hesitate to worm her...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

if it were me said:


> Neither would I because "something" is causing the enema..... Two eggs may not be a high count but we are heading into dormant season and they aren't going to be laying eggs like the do in the summer months.
> 
> They are calling for snow here tomorrow. :-(
> 
> ...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Snow here as well... I have to go into town today will get the IvomecPlus and start her on that.

Also Cathy you mention pines are good for them to help the blood cells. White pines. I have small white pines (2'-3") in the other pasture we have been wanting to cut down . Would that be good to feed them. Don't have any cedar around us and vines well they are pretty much gone. I will put 50/50 of ACV in their water.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes, white pine is good...ponderosa pine is not good for pregnant does..other wise its fine as well..

dont over give at once, with any new addtion to diet it sould be done slow..so cut a few branched at a time and let them get used to it...: ) 

with Ivomec Plus..expect her to react to that shot...1 cc per 40# sub Q, I give where the neck meets the body inthat little dip...they seem to react less..of course she is already used to LA 200!! after the first shot...you cangive boosters orally 1 cc per 33#...you want to treat 3 times...with ten days between each treatment..then once againin 30...this will give her a good clean start...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Learning terms what is LA200 and also not sure on SUB Q?
That neck area is where I give her injections now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

La 200 is the Brand name of Oxytetracycline, your vet prescribed Agrimycin 100 which I beleive is 1/2 the strength of LA 200.. 

SUB Q means under the skin 
IM means in the muscle


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Got ya :wink:


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Nannysrus,
I just got back in town and my does is still urinating red. She has finished up all her antibiotic and nothing has changed. Have a call in the vet she is calling tomorrow. Planning on taking my doe down to see her tomorrow. What I need to know how did they find the flukes with your does? I am trying to have all my facts and what I want done. This has gone on to long.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Have them test for infection, specifically a mild bladder or uterine infection.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Is it possible to get a urine sample the vet can test? I am sure it is going to be hard but important.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

That has been done. It is hemoglobin that is in her urine.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Have them take a vaginal swab, and test for bacteria. Urine can alter the results you get, some say it will kill bacteria because of the ammonia in it, but either way, a vaginal swab would be best. There is a reason for the hemoglobin in the urine..


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

The vet thought anaplasmosis and that is why we gave her 7 injections of an antibiotic , plus she has been given iron as well because she is anemic. Vet said it takes 3 weeks to rid this and it had been three weeks with no change. Nannysrus lives some where near me and she has dealt with liver flukes and my heart is saying this is what it is. But wanted more info to talk to my vet about.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

some causes of Hemoglobinuria :

Acute glomerulonephritis
Burns
Crushing injury
Hemoglobin C disease
Hemoglobin SC disease
Hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS)
Kidney infection
Kidney tumor
Malaria
Paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria
Sickle cell anemia
Thalassemia
Thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP)
Transfusion reaction
Tuberculosis


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

what is the best way to test . A full blood panel?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Hmm. I don't know anything more than anyone else, but I haven't seen anyone post this wiki article. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaplasmosis


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I say treat for Liver fluke! Ivomec Plus 1 cc per 40# sub Q 3 times...10 days apart then againin 30 days...you can do boosters oral if you choose 1 cc per 33#
When you said Liver fluke the connection registered..I knew I read this before..

What damage do flukes cause?
The young flukes cause quite a lot of damage as they migrate through the liver. If only a few flukes are migrating through the liver at one time, the damage to the goat is minimal. However, if many flukes are migrating at the same time, the damage to the liver can be extensive. In these cases, diarrhea, weight loss, and jaundice (yellow mucous membranes) can be observed. In addition to the direct damage to the liver,


> there is another problem liver flukes can precipitate and that is Redwater.


Each fluke can cause the loss of 0.5ml of blood per day from the liver. A moderate infestation in cattle of 100-200 fluke can lead to blood loss of up to half a litre each week, so often infected animals can be anemic. 


> Redwater (Bacillary Hemoglobinuria) can affect goats at any time of the year;


however, it is most common in the late spring, summer, and autumn. Redwater is caused by a bacterium called Clostridium hemolyticum, which colonizes in the liver of susceptible cattle and produces protein toxins that in turn destroy the body's red blood cells, damages other organ systems and rapidly causes death. The migrating flukes damage local areas in the liver causing low oxygen tension and the bacteria prefer these conditions and begin to grow rapidly in these damaged areas. The disease has a short incubation period and the vast majority of affected goats are usually found dead and bloated.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I have seen that article. Like I have said in previous post she looks and acts healthy.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you are on top of her health...Maybe giving iron and antibiotics could be sustaining her...It wont hurt to treat for fluke...could help??


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I am thinking the same. I am just wanting to figure this out so that there is no severe damage being done. Vet wanted to check her blood levels for the anemia since she was really anemic.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I just treated them for it. I had treated with several other wormers and nothing worked and some of them were getting really bad. A couple of them started loosing their coat and had lost a ton of weight where you could see almost every bone. I gave them Ivomec plus. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Yeah just spoke to my vet and she said she really doesn't want to do a blood panel because she knows her kidney & liver are out of whack right now. I said should we treat for liver flukes and said it won't hurt. Vet is puzzled. So she wants her on IvomecPlus and valbazen at the same time. Has anyone heard of that?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes I have heard of that - my vet also recommends a white wormer and a clear wormer simultaneously to cover many bases.

I really think dry-lotting the two does could help you here. In case it is a plant or a worm issue. I would put them in an area with NO graze/browse (you don't want them nibbling on little overgrown grass or anything) and feed good quality hay up in a rack. You can bring them tree/shrub branches occasionally to stay on their good side!


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I need some more advise ... Should I take my goats off that pasture and house them in the barn for a few days to see if it is something out in the pasture. My other doe doesn't have any issues and they eat the same stuff. I did find onion grass but it was so few and spread out. There's no clumps of it anywhere when I walked around just a few strands here and there. Would love to move them in another pasture but we haven't fenced that in yet ( spring project).


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Dry lotting while worming is a good idea if you have the space....once she is wormed there will be alot of expelled in her poop...another option is to keep them on dry lot until the dew had dried up....the worm eggs travel up the dew on the blade of grass..goats eat them and start the cycle all over...

I have given both valbazen and Ivomec plus before when my Buck had Mites and Tape worm...snce each did a different job, b ut Valbazen was three days in a row for the tape.....I have not heard doing it for Liver fluke unless you vet is wanting to cover all worm bases?


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

OK on the ivomecplus my vet said to give her .4cc on the injection and, and .75cc on the valbazen . I want to make sure we are giving her enough and HappyBleats you said 1cc for 40#. My doe weighs 45lbs. What is your opinion. I like my vet but sometimes I am not sure if she really know what to do. Specially today when I asked how much red cell to give my doe. She said she doesn't use that on goats and didn't know and for me to do research.:worried:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Valbazen is 1cc per 10 lbs orally. Ivomec and Ivomec Plus are 1cc per 33 lbs orally or 1cc per 40 lbs injected. Your vet's dosages are way underdosing. 

The goat's metabolism is much different than other animals and everything needs to be higher doses.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen... for 45# I would give 1 1/4 cc..injected or 1 1/2 orally ..better to give a little more then needed then less..
on Valbazen she needs...4 1/2 cc


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

My vet said give them both at the same time. Is that OK or is that to much wormer at one time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can do that.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I am a little worried that is a lot of medication. If this was your goat what would you do? Oh by the way you all have given me some really good info and I am glad I found this forum.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are that uncomfortable, then do one at a time. What I would do would depend on how bad the worm load is.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you can do both at the same time....But if it makes you feel better do one today and in a day or two do the other..some feel waiting a week between is better...go with your gut!! It will be fine either way :-D


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I don't know her worm load, fecal sample came back with a couple of Barberpoles. Since vet can't figure what is happening she said let deworm her .Being a new goat owner of 8 months I want to make the best choices. Thanks for the info... I will let you know how this all plays out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You are dong great...goats are a mystery....with each day we learn a little more and they add more questions lol...if her worm load via fecal was low...then doing one now and waiting a week wont hurt...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks for the positive feed back. I know it is a learning curve and it is great to have this forum to get others input. I hope worming her will stop her issue. Otherwise I am not sure what to do next. This has gone on for over three weeks and I don't want there to be to much damage in her. I do like my vet but I'm not sure how much she knows about goat issues and if I should look for another vet. They work on farm animals but I'm getting more from this forum than what they are looking for. I am to take her in next week for another blood analysis to see how the anemia is doing. With what I have described of what my doe is doing is there anything else I should be looking for?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Copper and Molybdenum can cause anemia...
Certain onion-type plants can cause anemia. I bet there are other plants as well
Stomach worms, sucking lice


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Went out this morning to observe my doe .. she peed and her urine was yellow this morning . Came home from church checked again and it was yellow once again. Before dark I went out again and a third time it was yellow. I am doing a happy dance.:wahoo: We'll see how we do tomorrow.. Never gave her the wormer was planning on today but with the urine back to yellow I think I will hold off and keep an eye on her.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Since her health has been affected by something, she will be prone to worms and/or cocci. 

Btw, my doe had a thriving population of strongyles this spring. She tested clean on a fecal a month earlier even though we were dealing with the same symptoms both times (she had dog log poops). I took a same back in a month since changes in diet and such hadn't improved her stools. She obviously showed strongyles then. Symptoms never completely went away, and she tested positive for a moderate-heavy load of cocci in the summer. 

In short, fecals are a tool, but not the be all, end all, when it comes to goat health issue diagnoses.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats great news...so what has been done that you feel worked??


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Not sure unless it was the antibiotic that I gave her . If you remember 7 injections one every other day. The only thing I can think of, is it finally kicked in. We'll see what today brings.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Her pellets are fine..know clumps. I have been using a herbal wormer weekly on them and I attribute the low count due to that. What you said though, I will keep an eye on them.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Well went out this morning to see how she is doing. Well we back to a light but reddish brown urine again:chin:. Not as dark as before. Will check her through the day and see if it was just from getting up to move around after the night. Frustrating... I thought and maybe we still are over the hump but got to find what is causing this and stop it..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

UGH how frustrating! Hows your copper there? any onion type plants? I would start the wormer...it wont hurt her..maybe start with valbazen and see how she does?


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Ok reading up about stomach worms I think I should go ahead and worm them. I have the IvomecPlus and Valdazen that I pick up thinking liver flukes or should I use something different.. Should I give both my does the wormer or the one with the issue only? Also just one wormer or both if so my one does apparently did not react well with Valdazen and the original owner said not to give that to her. I can take that back and get something different. Should they stay off the pasture for 48 hrs so the dis-guard their pellets not where they eat? Looking for ideas and if I am on the right track? Also giving red cell will that turn their urine a different color?


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

How do I check for copper? I asked my vet about copper and she wasn't worried about that. Onion plants there are some very few ,have to look hard to find them . You'll see a stand here or there. I didn't think that would affect them but maybe it does. Do you think dry lot them in the barn for a few days or week would be a good idea to see if it is something their eating? I hate to do that to them but like I said said before one doe is having issues not both.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Start both or just the one with the issue on Valdazen and not the IvomecPlus?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think at this point you should consider everything lol...I would dry lot them..I would treat only the goat who has an issue...and check fecal on the others..

on valbazen...what kind of reaction? You can start with Ivomec plus...1 cc per 40# sub Q ...it will sting!! expect a reaction...boosters can be done orally..1 cc per 33#

treat 3 times 10 days between and once again in 30 days
signs of copper def. are fading color...fish tail where the tail fans out...and tail bone tip can be exposed...dull coat, hair tip can hook..these are visual signs..there are unseen signs like over load of barpol worm...hoof deformities ect....

red cell can turn pee colored as will B complex...more of an orange color..


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

If the valdazen will work I rather do that the the injection. She is hating me right now because of the other injections. The other doe is the one that reacted to the valdazen and I have contacted the original owner to see what the reaction was but haven't heard back. Should I return the medication and get some other wormer? Or since I have it use it?

There is no sign of the copper issue. I wonder if there is a guide on plants with pictures of plants that are toxic and how to find out if copper is in the pasture area? I know what some plants are and they are safe. Maybe I am over thinking this. 

Maybe her urine color today is from the red cellonder:


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Ivomec is one injection every 10 days for a total of 3 shots, if memory serves me. I do it via injection, and it goes well. Many folks don't like to do oral first, in case she happens to be carrying a heavy load that somehow got by the vet. Oral kills off faster, and that can lead to health issues for a goat as the parasites are releasing from their intestinal lining. SQ injection releases the same amount of med, but slower.

Btw, some of mine that have had worm loads never had the dog logs. That was just my doe. Ruby had roundworms, and never had loose or malformed stools.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

The Ivomec I have is IvomecPlus.So you all agree I should use that first in case she has a heavy worm load even though it showed a couple of barberpole in their fecal sample. I am dreading giving her another injection but I will.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she is not the one who reacts badly to valbazen I would start with it...its a good broad base wormer with no ouch!! : ) Ivomec plus is a good wormer...like stated above...I too use it injected only...and shouldnot give oral with heavy load...start with valbazen 1 cc per 10# and see hwo she does...repeat in 10 days ect...

you can google toxic plants for goats..and see what grows in your area...


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

I am being a bum here and not looking back on this thread (crap temps here right now, and waiting inside for water buckets to fill with warm water), but neither is bred, correct? Be sure NOT to use Valbazen on bred does. Bad for babies in development. 

Btw, none of mine seem to mind the ivomec shot. I get them on my milk stand and inject when they are busy eating.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks I will start her on Valbazen today.

Will also check out plants.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

OK gave my doe her first dose of Valdazen yesterday and so far she seems to be just fine. HappyBleat you said repeat in 10 days . Do I treat her again for a third treatment 10 days later?.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great...let's keep our fingers crossed...yes..repeat 2 more times with ten days between..then do a lost dose 3o days after that....


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks:thumbup:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice.


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## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm following this...good information!


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Well update you all. I think we are over the hump on this:clap:. Her urine is yellow again . 
Brought the girls in the barn for a few days to work with them since we will be having some pretty cold temps for the next few days and I want to work with the one who is afraid of me since the injections that I am not there to always give her injections. This forum has helped me in so many ways... Thank you:smile:. Oh ,one other thing I will be checking her eyes to see how her anemia is doing today.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thats great news!!!!! Collective minds at work!!!:clap::hug:


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

OK .. Everything is going good but now Hannah is constipated and I think it is from the wormer I just gave her. She squats and you can see her staining a little bit to get it out, I can see her rectum moving and a few berries come out. What is the best way to relieve this before it gets bad.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Milk of magnesia can be used for two things here...toxcity from the dead worm load and constipation may be causeing and loosen the stools so she can poop....15 cc per 60#

keeping her well hydrated helps as well


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Just found info on that as well. It says to do this every 4 to 6 hrs . Is that correct? Hydrating how do I make sure she is drinking enough?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..correct...

for huydration..I pull a tent of skin up and see how well it pops back in place..here is a link to give you other ideas

http://goat-link.com/content/view/95/80/#.VGTdcVfF92A


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks.. Been a rough few weeks between my Hannah with all her problems to now this constipation to one of our 4 dogs has ring worm back. Last year in the winter we didn't know what it was thinking it was fleas and it got really bad. I had to daily Bleach their blankets to dipping them (which I will not use the dip again). I think I caught it soon enough I hope. This dog is an older dogs an has a low immune system . Luckily the dogs are all outdoor dogs but they all sleep in their den so we are isolating him until he is better. So off to get Milk of Magnesia and dry all the dogs blankets. I know better days are ahead. Have learned a lot in the last year with all my animals but wouldn't trade it for anything.:smile:


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

OK I have given her three doses now and she is due for another one. She has berries coming out but not a lot and she is still straining a little bit too. She peed but wasn't a lot this morning might be because water was frozen. Put some lukewarm water in there for them. Question should I give her more milk of magnesia until I see clumps come out? Going back in the barn in a bit to give her her last dose of red cell and check her eyes to see how she is doing with the anemia and her check skin for dehydration .


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Bring warm electros out to her...getting fluids in her will help her poop..might back off the MOM after this mornings dose and see how she does...you can always start again if need be...here is a recipe for home made electros...

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thank you


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

If she is like my girls - the apple cider vinegar alone will make her want to drink more. It is amazing how much they go through when I add ACV to their water. 

Btw, put a ball that will float in their water. Tennis ball works. It helps keep the surface from freezing as fast, as it bounces around enough to disturb surface tension. It will eventually freeze, but not as fast. I am picking up new ones today for my waterers. 

Another thing to help her and possibly make her your best buddy - chewable Vit C. My goats love me when I bring out that. Molly would do anything for them. The buck and Ruby, not so much, but Molly, Silvie, and Bree, yeah, they scarf them down.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Well today has been a good day.:clap: Hannah is not straining anymore and also has moved up on the Famachia scale and is no longer in the danger zone. Now work on getting her to the top of the Famachia scale. All is good.:dance:

Cathy that homemade electrolytes really is working and the goats love it. I have not seen them drink as much as they do that stuff. Is the something I can keep giving them? I give it to them warm on these last few cold days we have been having. I also have warm water for them but they prefer the other.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats wonderful news....Electros for a while once daily wont hurt,...I would ween them off once they are doing great and drinking plenty...molasses is a great motivator but a "treat" ...adding just the ACV is good for them..how ever always offer plain water as well for those who will not drink the ACV or electros..


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I do offer plain water as well. I used honey instead of molasses since we have plenty of that with our hives.

Also how much AVC should I add in their water for them. I have several watering bowls around their pasture. The on on the fence I will ad the ACV.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

( Yum fresh raw honey!!! ) Honey is still a sugar like molasses...good for a time

I would add a small amount of ACV at a time, maybe a few tablespoon per gallon....increase ad they get a taste for it...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I have another question on my Hannah . She is doing fine but I may have taken her off the MOM before she really showed something substantial. I noticed yesterday she was pushing like she wanted to go. So I gave her MOM again and the second dose I notice just 2 small clumps. I didn't give it to her through the night but started up this morning when I saw her still pushing not real hard just enough to know she wants something to come out. She has had three doses so far today and have to go out at 10 for another. Should I be concerned? Another question I am still giving them 1/2 c of grain morning and night is this OK with her constipation? She is drinking making sure of that and eating & grazing doesn't act like she is sick.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would not give grain as long as she is constipated...but Im wondering why she is having problems pooping...or is it shes in heat?? since its off and on...some goats in heat will squat to pee and stay there longer then needed, pushing..and some poops can be expelled during that time...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I am not truly sure but when I gave her the Valbazen that is when this happened. I don't know if I gave her enough time on the MOM to get things running again for her. I thought she was fine even though I didn't see clumps then she did have a some pellets but not like it normally is. I thought it is working it's way through. I have been keeping them in the barn at night and into some of the morning so I can observe her.She has been in heat a couple of weeks ago. She is not squatting she lifts her tail high and you can see her push like she wants something out.


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

OK maybe I am over thinking this again. I was down at the barn to check on them before bed and observing Hannah. She pooped berries and no squatting & pushing. I put them in the pasture around noon today and not sure what she may have done out there. I also can hear her rumbling inside which is a good thing. She also drank some water, had some baking soda & her loose minerals. She also peed and it was yellow. I think I need to relax and like a goat lady told me on the phone several weeks ago. A goat will tell you when they are sick. Sorry for bothering everyone.

One last thing and since this is all new to me and I hope I am not being a nuisance . What does everyone feed there goats? Hay, grain.veggies , or letting them graze & hay only. There isn't a lot left out in their pasture, they are eating the grass down and weeds & vines are dead for the winter. That is why I have been giving grain to them.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Glad you got everything handled and things are looking up for her 

As to the feeding, I give mine free choice hay (normally grain/oat hay and alfalfa), loose minerals, and grain if they need it (i.e if they are thinner than I like to see, pregnant, milking, or a growing kid).


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You are no bother at all!!!!...Its good to talkthings through when unsure!! Im glad she pooped for you...as long as she is eating, drinking, pooping berries and peeing, bright eye and alert..all should be well...just keep an eye out to be sure nothing changes 

we feed free choice coastal hay, alfalfa twice daily ( does get both flakes alfalfa and chafhay, boys and kids get alfalfa pellets) we also feed a mix of oats, barley and BOSS...free choice minerals for goats and loose salt ( we use sea90..goats love it!)


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

I have not been giving them alfalfa. Should I and if so how much? I have stayed away from alfalfa because I heard it can make bucks get UTI's. I don't have a buck and maybe that is if he has free choice on it. Want to learn more. Your oat & barley w/ BOSS is this something you have mixed or already mixed or do you mix it. I know BOSS we can put in to the mix. I do give my does BOSS and goat chow from Purina. They also have free choice hay.

Also the loose salt (sea 90) is that in place of baking soda?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Alfalfla is good for all goats, even the bucks and wethers...it helps bring up the calcium they need...we used to buy everything seperate until we found a place to mix our grain per our instrutions...

6 parts Whole oats
4 parts whole Barley
2 parts BOSS

mix and serve one part mix with three parts alfalfa...

we also feed our moms four flakes of alfalfa twice a day and chafe in they grain on the table...: ) sticks good lol...

bucks only get alfalfa pellets now and coastal...


Sea 90 is salt...not in place of baking soda...we dont feed B soda free choice...I might put some out when the graze is lush ..but usually only as needed..


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thank You.. I am going to check with our Southern States and see if they can mix this. Or maybe with two goats right now (spring planning on a couple more) I will need to buy it separately. I know my neighbor has grain mixed for his cows but he buys in bulk. Not sure where else to go unless online some where.

Also Hannah is due for another doses of Valbazen today. Do I give it to her with the constipation issue she had?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes go a head and give the valbazen..the only reason it may have been conected to her constipation would be an over load of deal worms which should not be an issue this time ...

we have our mixed now ... makes it alot easier...but with only a few goats, unless you buy a lot at once many places wont mess with mixing for you...a bag of each should last quite a bit...the BOSS longer then the others sine you use less ect...


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## snevets5 (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks..
I have another question... Hannah is due to go in heat again shortly I am thinking. I would like to breed her. Should I do it or wait with all that she has gone through.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think as long as she is well and you are comfortable then yes, breed her...however if you are unsure she is 100%..then skip this heat cycle and wait for the next..just to allow more time to recover fully....


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