# milk worming question



## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

OK, last week Cocci this week worms, ugh grass is growing. Fecal on cocci is clean now....strongyles are high now. I have 4 with clumpy poo. I Safegaurd in high doses is not effective on my doe that is in milk. Ivermec oral drench has not been impressive with her in the past either. Here is what I have on hand, Ivermec plus, Valbazen, Cydectin Cattle pour on...Safe gaurd and normal Ivermec. 
What should I use on her and what is the withhold time. The vet is saying Safegaurd at 1cc per 20lbs for 5 days. I have done 1cc per 10lbs for 3 days in the past and it did not work. To note, I am working to get her copper deficiency up and keep it up. I really do think this is an underlying problem for her but until it is efficient the wormers are not able to work will on her. Could be something else of course...any thoughts?
TIA


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Ivomec is safe for preggo's but not good in the 1st trimester, or the plus, not safe for preggo's, the plus only has the extra to kill liver flukes, that is the only difference, 1 cc per 33 lbs, orally, if not anemic, then 10 days later, 3 x apart. 
If anemic, give the first dose SQ 1 cc per 40 lbs.

Not sure on withhold time. But she needs treatment right away.


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

Thank you Pam, She is not pregnant. She has a 4 week old baby on her and I am milking her. I need the withhold time. She also does not do as well with Ivomec. What took care of this last year was Cydectin cattle pour on drenched. I went back and looked at records. I can't find anything that states a withhold time for on milk for Cydectin Cattle Pour on except that there is none. If it is like Ivermectin my vet told me the with hold time on Ivermectin drench on goats is 8 days. I have also read the Cattle pour on as a drench is double the strength of Sheep drench. I think if my memory is correct on the Sheep drench for sheep the withhold time for milk is none. 

While researching this, before posting, I came across an old thread on a milk forum that had cattle cydectin pour on as a drench in goats with a 56 withhold date on meat. Seems like a lot and this is why I am hesitant and wonder what the withhold is and if the Valbazen or the Plus, which you addressed, was an option. 

Good to know on the Sub Q..that is the route I will take next if it turns out the better option.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Valbezen states nonlactating goats. 
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/valbazen-broad-spectrum-dewormer

Not sure if this helps at all.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f217/best-wormer-strongyle-tapeworm-130587/


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Are you needing the milk withdrawal time because you are providing milk for another family?

Honestly, I just ignore the issue for my husband and myself. We don't ever have any kind of problem or reaction for ourselves. I don't often provide milk for others, but when I do, I give the milk from non treated does for a couple of weeks, and I tell the people when the affected does were last treated. Generally they don't bat an eye and take the milk anyway.

But I'm sure other people would be scared...

Since so much is off label dosing, it stands to reason that withdrawal times are also off label...???

So many times things just aren't tested for goats.

Best of luck to you in this particular minefield...


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

I need to let some time go by and let the meds filter out. I am MTFHR, it's a gene mutation(s). I have to be overly cautious. I have asked so many questions on here this week, I am getting on my own nerves. I just found out about the MTFHR a few weeks ago. I also just started milking the goat a few weeks ago and am a 1st timer. I would ignore if I did not have to be over protective of what I let in my body...but I do.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Retiredokjusttired said:


> I need to let some time go by and let the meds filter out. I am MTFHR, it's a gene mutation(s). I have to be overly cautious. I have asked so many questions on here this week, I am getting on my own nerves. I just found out about the MTFHR a few weeks ago. I also just started milking the goat a few weeks ago and am a 1st timer. I would ignore if I did not have to be over protective of what I let in my body...but I do.


 Gotcha!

Some here absolutely love the natural herbal worming solutions you can get from Molly's or Fir Meadow. I tried the Molly's but failed abysmally to keep up with it. It seemed like all I did was prepare and administer worming portions. I should have known myself well enough to know I would not keep up.

But I have 25 goats, and a busy life. Others have great success, and since you worm often, it can't have a really long withdrawal time, if any at all. I suspect none at all and that might be an ideal solution for you.


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

Mariarose, 
That is a good suggestion. I have thought on and off this doe may do better on the herbs. She is not thrifty. Never once did it hit mr about the milk withdrawl. I could use it just on her. I also am very busy and currently have 19. 
Do you know which of the 2 has a better success rate in working?
Thank you for the suggestion.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You are welcome. And no, I don't know any comparison between the 2. I bought from Molly's Herbals because I find her site so helpful.

But I'm certain that the people here who use them would have an opinion for you!

I have friends that use herbs. I'll check with them to see what they use and why.

I'll get back to you.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Land of Havilah or Fir Meadow are the better places to get herbs.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

THANK YOU, Karen!

Can you tell us why? Better freshness, better shipping speed, better...?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They actually own goats. Just simply work better for my herd.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

My friend wrote me back,

"Good morning...I actually don't have experience with either of those. Our best experience is using copper sulfate free choice. I have made our own black walnut tincture in the past with some wormwood but it is very unpalatable. 


Currently we use WRM Clear if worming is necessary....not often at all since putting out copper free choice. Mainly we use it on the kids that haven't learned their way around the mineral box yet. 


WRM Clear is an herbal de-wormer and has proven very effective for us. We get it through Jeffers."

Hope that helps...


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

Thank you Mariarose and look forward to hearing back. Karen, thank you and will look at both of these. Also thank you for all the input you give me...I am wearing myself out with all the "new" stuff I am having to learn and you are wonderful to answer. Appreciate it. 

I did FINALLY get a clean fecal on my girl yesterday. So glad but I do think the herbs will help and if anything will improve her over all help once the copper is up enough maybe she can live off the herbs for the worms and things will work out. She is such a sweet doe and so good with the other goats. She is raising my bottle goat with her baby. He can't nurse off of her but she has taken him on as her own. This makes you just love them more ya know. <3


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

After reading the above posts about " WRM Clear" I would like to know if you that use it administer the 2cc twice per day dosage or what ? I milk my Annie doe and would like to use a natural wormer on her. Thanks in advance.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think that last was directed toward me, and I'm sure to disappoint. I am not the one using WRM Clear, but my friends who are not on here do. They state they only use it when the free choice copper sulphate fails, such as young kids who don't know about the free choice buffet yet. The WRM Clear is not the first line of defense for them.


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