# Emergency Help!!!



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

My doe kidded yesterday It was a very difficult birth she is swollen and very sore yesterday I gave her an injection of banamine after which she was eating and seemed to be doing well. This morning she is not eating grinding her teeth and moaning I repeated the banamine injrection but I cant hear rumen noises and shes depressed what can I try to get her to eat should I syringe her some thing I'm giving her that nutrigoat vitamin supplyment what else can I do I'm so worried about my girl


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Cayennepepper said:


> My doe kidded yesterday It was a very difficult birth she is swollen and very sore yesterday I gave her an injection of banamine after which she was eating and seemed to be doing well. This morning she is not eating grinding her teeth and moaning I repeated the banamine injrection but I cant hear rumen noises and shes depressed what can I try to get her to eat should I syringe her some thing I'm giving her that nutrigoat vitamin supplyment what else can I do I'm so worried about my girl


Start her on probiotics and nutridrench. Have you considered milk fever? Did you try to offer grain? Warm molasses water?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I would also give her some Baking soda in addition to mjs suggestions. lots of probiotics. 

milk fever is a good thought. Give her Calcium Gluconate sub-q according to the directions on the bottle. If it is milk fever she should respond pretty quickly. Repeat treatment two more times. 

B-complex injections never hurt.

Take a temp on her?


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Vet is on the way to give steriod and b complex, temp is 101.4 vet thinks it's preg toxemia/ ketosis she ate very small amount of yogurt gave 5 or so pumps of nutridrench will give more later heading to cvs to get propylene glycol for toxemia


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

called cvs to check if they had proprylene glycol they said that is myralax is that right seems weird to me


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

I've been offering gatorade but I'm going to get some molasses


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Does she stink like super sweet? Has the vet been there yet or gathering supplies and heading that way?


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Cayennepepper said:


> called cvs to check if they had proprylene glycol they said that is myralax is that right seems weird to me


Yup propylene glycol is MiraLAX.


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Not to me she just smelled like the yogurt she was eating.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would also give her C D Antitoxin and Thiamine along with the MiraLax...this will support her system until she is back up and going...DOseher with Nutra drench until your vet gets there..it has Propolyne Glycol in is...best wishes


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

mjs500doo said:


> Yup propylene glycol is MiraLAX.


even though its called prolyethylene


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I cant find a link between PG and MiraLax either...Im still looking..but it seems to be for constipation???


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Imight go for Magic instead..I can not find a connection that both miralax and PG are the same thing...not that is isnt..I just cant find it...

Magic (1 part Molasses, 2 parts Kayro, 1 part Corn Oil)


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Tractor supply has propylene glycol if you have one......


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Treat.for milk.fever (CMPK) and ketosis (propylene glycol). Pain rlief (banamine), supportive therapy (B complex, vitamin c, probiotics). 

Also.consider the possibility of a retained kid, this always comes to.mind when they go downhill this soon after kidding. 

One more thought also check her udder to rule out.mastitis.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Did she pass the placenta?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

she needs calcium, vet should have some IV calcium for her.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I would think with a low temp it would not be retained placenta or a kid, because I am pretty sure she would be running a really high temp. 
Could be a worm load. ( wouldn't rule that out)
could be low calcium/milk fever
is she showing any signs of anemia?


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Placenta passed yesterday, Vet checked and I checked no second kid. She doesn't look anemic to me or the vet, I just did a fecal on her about a month ago it was negative. I've started PG and I got the calcium glucanate but I don't have sterile water to dilute it yet. vet didn't think milk fever do to the fact she is up and moving around started her on 5 day course of penicillin. she is readily drinking the molasses and water. She seems a bit constipated or she doesn't want to poop cause she's sore. she is much more comfortable now and a bit brighter but still notr eating I've picked honey suckle and gum trees for her she thinks about it but nothing yet. Thanks for all the input.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like she is super wore out...I would keep up with the PG just in case...B complex really help boost thier appitite and energy..Probiotics for after Pen G treatment is done to restore her flora..Prep. H will help with rear swelling...keep a close watch on her to poop...hopefully she wont make you wait long lol...if she does not poop and enema might be needed..but Im sure once that molasses water kicks in she will poop..I might add a bit of Baking soda in her water as well...


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Ok Ill add baking soda She had a wad of balls right at the edge they were partially holding her rectum open so I helped those out and hopefully she will go soon on her own already started the probiotics just because of the stress so hopefully I'll ward off any side effects of the antibiotics. I'm going to do that prep h I hadn't even thought about that the swelling is getting better


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I was recently reminded to give Probios 3-4 hours after Antibiotics so the Antibiotics dont kill off the probios... something I didnt think about when treating my little buck


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Added Baking soda to molasses water and applied Prep H Shes lying down drinking her water and looks comfortable I'll keep ya'll posted


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Ok I'll keep the probios going until after the pen is finished


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

too help her bowels move better you can give her the magic recipee the corn syrup can be a stool softener. or just give her 2 or 3 ounces of light corn syrup. Corn oil can also help. Or mineral oil, but mineral oil wont have any nutritional value but will help any stomach upset and help her with the constipation some.


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

SO I've been out in the barn with Lulu I keep seeing her straining I think its to poop so what kind of enema can I give her do I need to buy something or can I just do like warm water and lube


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you can try MOM first, ...15 cc per 60# is recommended..but I would go a little less to avoid the runs..maybe go 8 cc..see if that helps...


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

is that milk of magnesia


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

warm soapy water will work for an enema.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes....I say less because it can cause runs if used too much....this is from Tennesseemeat goats
Milk of Magnesia - Over-the-counter laxative product that is useful for constipation and toxicity reactions (to move toxic materials through and out of the body), including bloat, overeating disease, and Floppy Kid Syndrome. Use as oral drench at a rate of 15 cc per 60 lbs. body weight every four to six hours until the feces goes from normal to clumpy then back to normal 'pills.' Always keep the animal hydrated with electrolytes (ReSorb or equivalent) when using Milk of Magnesia or other laxatives. Keep MoM on hand at all times.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I just skimmed this thread; don't think I'll be much help, but this sounds just like what happed to one of our does a couple years ago. 
I don't know what it actually was, the vet thought maybe ketosis, so I drenched her every day with propylene glycol for I don't know how long. She doesn't like syringes to this day. She just acted listless and off her feed for a long time; maybe a month and a half or two months.
I think our vegetables kept her alive. the only thing she would eat was stuff like beets, spinach, onions, arugula kale...
Fortunately she came around though, and has been super healthy since. I suspect she also had worms, but I can't remeber if we dewormed her or not. You tend to block out these unpleasant memories.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

are you sure she is constipated? often when they retain a bit of placenta they will continue to strain on and off for several days


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

keren said:


> are you sure she is constipated? often when they retain a bit of placenta they will continue to strain on and off for several days


I was wondering about that. At this stage what is the treatment for retained placenta 
After I gave her an enema of water and lube she seemed more comfortable and I haven't seen any more straining The vet is back out tomorrow to float the horses teeth I'll see what he thinks about the placenta It looked whole but really who knows she just ate some leaves not a large amount but at least its something and showed some interest in hay I syringed more yogurt and baby cereal to get calories in her


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its good the enema gave relief...even if she isnt terribly constipaded it doesnt hurt to do one..I agree with Karen..sometimes they do keep pushing to clean out..Did she get any B complex? that will help with her appitite ...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I re read the posts to see what all has been going on...your first posts says you did not hear rumen function....is that still true?? with out rumen function the poop will be slow producing...Have you gotton a temp on her in the last hour??


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I was recently reminded to give Probios 3-4 hours after Antibiotics so the Antibiotics dont kill off the probios... something I didnt think about when treating my little buck


That's good to know!!!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Cayennepepper said:


> I was wondering about that. *At this stage what is the treatment for retained placenta *
> After I gave her an enema of water and lube she seemed more comfortable and I haven't seen any more straining The vet is back out tomorrow to float the horses teeth I'll see what he thinks about the placenta It looked whole but really who knows she just ate some leaves not a large amount but at least its something and showed some interest in hay I syringed more yogurt and baby cereal to get calories in her


A course of broad spectrum antibiotics to prevent infection, and she should be fine.  I usually also give a shot of B complex and a shot of vitamin C as supportive therapy whenever I give any other shot.


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Rumen noises are very minimal but there is some noise now but earlier there was none. temp is 102.2 she is not trying to eat her leaves like she was before I went to bed its 2am now I gave more yogurt and cereal


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

She got B complex this morning


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

that is a pretty low temp for a retained placenta, I am still beating on her rumen shutting down or low calcium. Maybe a worm load.


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

I gave calcium at 4am this morning its now 9 she doesn't really seem any better. Still not eating. I did finally see her pee for the first time since kidding. I've stopped the PG since it can slow rumen functions switched to caro/molasses mixture What else can I do??? I've continued the banamine for pain the swelling of her vulva and rear is much better how long can she go without eating anything besides yogurt and baby rice cereal


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agtee wtih 20kidsonahill...the grinding of teeth...she needs C D Antitoxin...I would call the vet and ask him to bring some...in the very least MOM will bind the toxins that are building...she is trying to fight but needs some help...I agree with not give any more PG, I would not drench her with any oats or grain...she needs green leaves and grass hay..keep her hydrated but she needs something to bind the toxins...her last temp is not bad...so she has a good chance here..if you cant get the best choice C D ANtitoxin..then second choice is MOM thrid is activated Charcoal...I would also give 1 teaspoon baking soda in enough water to drench it easy...to help with acidosis ....Also her udder... is she nursing her baby? has she been milked, checked for mastisis, too tight of udder, red swollen or heated? Im sorry for the questions..Im just trying to "see" whats going on....I wish you and her all the best..


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

She is up to date on CD&T just got a booster at 45 days pre delivery She is not nursing the kid but I've been milking her and monitoring her udder it is very normal and not red or hot and the clostrum looks normal not bloody or chunky . I dont have cd antitoxin I'll try to get some she isn't grinding her teeth as much couldn't that just be pain related. Thanks so much for the help she is fighting me more when I try to do stuff to her


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

grinding teeth usally indicates gut pain...if she is not chewing.. a cud and you donthear much rumen action..her rumen is off...the CD&T is more of a preventive but when something happens to interupt the rumen CD Antitoxin is needed to keep toxins from building...this is very painful for the goat....If you vet carries it but says she does not need it, I would tell him you want it any way...she needs no less than 20 cc if she is 80 # every 12 hours...but I would give it twice in 6 hours at first then every 12 for 24 hours after her rumen is up and going. I would also ask him for Thiamine...when a goat is off food she can not make her own B 1 and goat polio is a real danger...she needs you to provide that fro her for 24 hours after she is well...that dose is 1 cc per 25# if its 100 MG or 1 cc per 100# for 500 mg...I would double her dose the first round...continue probios 3-4 hours after each Antibiotic shot


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is alink to explain more about C D Antitoxin....this is not a toxoid....
http://goat-link.com/content/view/159/168/#.UajBWWSDQxc


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

*Tetanus Antitoxin, 1 Dose, Colorado Serum*

is this the same tractor supply has this


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

My vet doesn't carry it so besides ordering online anywhere else I should check for it


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

tetanus antitoxin is not the same thing...I order from Jeffers...I would go a head and get some ordered in case you need it again...for your doe right now I owuld give her MOM..Thiamine and probios as mentioned...Tennesseemeat goats suggest 15 cc per 60#...here is her article on enterotoxemia...remember she can be right to the point so dont let it scare you..but do be aware if your doe does not get her rumen up and going she will be in trouble....
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/enterotoxemiaaka.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ALso you can call area feed stores..some Tractor supply carries it..but many times they dont know what you are talking about and say yes they have it only to find it is CD&T or Tetanus antitoxin


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Karo mollasses mixture and don't forget the corn oil, one part each. Add a raw egg. 

How much Calcium gluconate, seems like you should have seen her respond. 

I am wondering about worm load at this point. 
Can you just reorganize what yo udid for her so far in one post? 

I think I remember you saying you put her on Pen G?

I woudl worm her again, what kinds of wormers do you have?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

and the C&D antitoxin would be a good idea as well, I agree with that.


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Update: so after the (horse/sometimes sees goats)vet I was using didn't know what cd antitoxin was. I loaded Lulu in the back seat of my car and drove her to a vet in Richmond that specializes in small ruminants. She put her on nuflor for her lungs ( they were sounding harsh) gave her something for the other Bacteria that CD&T doesn't cover She also gave her another B vit Injection and we have a new kind of pain med to start tonight after he last banimine dose. She also got her on this drench call green stuff its a powder that you mix with yogurt and syringe to the goat boy she hated it but It has lots of vitamins, probios, alfalfa and other good stuff to get the rumen going again. So this morning she is breathing more comfortably eating some gum tree leaves and stems she had some stool it was gloopy but I kinda expected that. So in a nut shell I think we are looking up 
Thank you to everyone for their advise and input


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wonderful!! Im glad she is perking up...I would love to know the names of the other meds the vet gave...Im always trying to learn.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes I'd like to know the names also


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## Xuxasmamma (Apr 14, 2013)

SO what did the vet think the problem was? Or was it just a hard time with kidding? I was thinking if you could list symptoms and then what was done, I could put that in a book in case this happens to me sometime. Although I don't breed my goats. Was it pneumonia?


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Sounds like bacterial pneumonia with depression afterwards, shut down rumen. We have a powder like that here for down cows, called cow pro. Turns a sickly green color. Lol


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Xuxasmamma said:


> SO what did the vet think the problem was? Or was it just a hard time with kidding? I was thinking if you could list symptoms and then what was done, I could put that in a book in case this happens to me sometime. Although I don't breed my goats. Was it pneumonia?


Its been crazy around here Ill try to list everything this evening and get it posted


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## Xuxasmamma (Apr 14, 2013)

No rush Cayenne
Just want to learn all I can.
Glad she is doing better!!


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Day 1: After a very difficult deliver lulu was eating and doing fine gave banimine for pain Oxytocin to help pass placenta. placenta pass that afternoon
Day 2: she stopped eating and was laying around moaning with each breath had dr P out to see her (talked to ya'll here we were thinking maybe ketosis) Called DR C who gave alot of info and recommended Penicillin 10cc subQ every 12 hours keep on pain meds give B complex and start PG and Calcium. DR p arrives he exammined said lungs sounded good and he thought it was just pain and stress he gave the B complex and started her on Penicillin at 3cc every 12 hours (not knowing if this was a stronger concentration of penicillin I stuck with his dose) Dr C also Recommended syringing yogurt and offering molasses water(as did you guys) 
Day3: No improvement still not eating hardly drinking her breathing was fast and shallow and she was moaning again Yall recommended CD antitoxin call DR P to get it he didn't know what it was and said he thought it was some sort of quack thing  I realized he didn't know goats as well as he was claiming I loaded Lulu up into my car and drove her to Dr C (she really knows small ruminants an amazing vet) She examined Lulu found her lungs to sound harsh, trauma to her vaginal vault (which we knew ) . She drew labwork which came back with normal glucose(so she doesn't have ketosis) only slightly low calcium, a very low WBC(particularly segmented neutraphils) which she suspected was due to them being used up fighting infection, and one of the kidney values was elevated. 
She treated with Nuflor 8cc sq repeat in 3 days, vaccine bac 7, 5cc B vit, increased her penicillin to 10cc every 12 hours, meloxicam 2 tablets once daily for pain, and sent home ASS drench its used for down cows 4 Tablespoon in 4 oz of yogurt 1-2 times a day until eating. She had instructed me to continue the PG at 1 oz pg to 1oz yogurt once daily but when we got the labwork back we stopped that One more interesting thing to note Lulu never once had and elevated temperature


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow...she has had it all....how is she doing today??


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## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

doing well she isn't into grain yet but eating hay and greens pretty well each day she's a bit better shes now dealing with diarrhea so she's on pepto and still on probios


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## Xuxasmamma (Apr 14, 2013)

WOW Thank you so much for listing all that. SHe has been through the ringer, as have you. I cant imagine the anxiety you must have felt. It is amazing how vets seem to think that they know about goats but actually know close to nothing. Crazy. Glad you found a good one and that your momma is doing well.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I'm so sorry for her and you.







What an ordeal! I hope she's back to normal really soon. She ought to be with all that good stuff your giving her!


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