# Buck conformation critique



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

What are your thoughts on this buck's conformation? Nigerian Dwarf, 3 years old. You can be honest, it won't hurt my feelings. I've been hitting him pretty hard with copper boluses, just waiting for them to kick in.

Also, setting up goats and getting good photos is hard...

Here's Gimli:


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

He is very proportional which is good, I also like his depth of chest, but would maybe wish for more angularity in the rear legs and a longer neck. Also this is just my opinion. He’s a handsome boy.


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Okie dokie, I am learning to judge, so don't tke my words too seriously! Wait for the pro, @Morning Star Farm

cons I see right away:
His rump is a bit steep
Lacks rear leg angulation
short neck

pros I see right away:
extremely wide!
Deep bodied
shoulder blend smoothly with the rest of is body
nice wrinkly loose skin (but I think that is a buck thing??)


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Thanks guys! I’m seeing similar things. He is built like a tank. 

I am trying to decide whether to keep him or sell him this year. He’s a very good boy who throws beautiful kids (all buckling this year so far, boo). Right now I’ve got 4 bucks and really don’t need that many, so I’ve got to figure out who to put up for sale. I’m going to get pics of the others too, once I can find time.


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Lol! Yes setting up can be really tricky!

Okay, biggest pros
Good length
Excellent body capacity
Prominent brisket
Great masculinity
Decent rump slope
Good dairy character
Lovely height and width in the rear, nice horseshoe shape
Tight front end

Biggest cons
Big, big con, unless it's the way he's set up, he really toes out in the rear legs
He appears to toe out in the front as well
Lacks angulation in rear legs
Needs more dairy character
His wrinkles, dairy skin, should go all the way down his back
@Nigerian dwarf goat dairy skin is on bucks and does, but more prominent on bucks. It leads to better udder texture.
Weak topline, he dips in the chine quite a bit


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

@Morning Star Farm What do you think of the attachment of his testicles? Looks kinda week to my eye. (also trying to learn)

Sorry OP if there's too many people learning here.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Oh and I LOVE the name by the way.(thumbup)


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

NDinKY said:


> Thanks guys! I'm seeing similar things. He is built like a tank.
> 
> I am trying to decide whether to keep him or sell him this year. He's a very good boy who throws beautiful kids (all buckling this year so far, boo). Right now I've got 4 bucks and really don't need that many, so I've got to figure out who to put up for sale. I'm going to get pics of the others too, once I can find time.


I would look at the does you have and compare his pros to your girls' cons and to what you are looking for in future kids. This way you can see what might improve in the kids. If he has what a lot of your girls lack, I would keep him. That is unless another buck you have would help more.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

He definitely toes out, I didn’t really set him up for the pic from behind, that’s how he stopped. 

He’s our first buck but I actually think he’s the least nice conformation wise. Seems very meaty and not very dairy. I actually haven’t retained any of his kids yet, but when you throw all bucklings it doesn’t make me want to keep them, lol. 

MellonFriend, definitely great to be learning, I’m learning too. Feel free to pick him apart, he can take it!


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

When you guys use the term toes out, do you mean his hooves spread too much? I’m also learning.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Ashlynn said:


> I would look at the does you have and compare his pros to your girls' cons and to what you are looking for in future kids. This way you can see what might improve in the kids. If he has what a lot of your girls lack, I would keep him. That is unless another buck you have would help more.


The biggest thing my does are lacking as a herd is the nice arched eustation and the flat rump. I don't think Gimli will help much in those areas.

I've got to get my girls all shaved up too and get pictures to really evaluate them.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Ashlynn said:


> When you guys use the term toes out, do you mean his hooves spread too much? I'm also learning.


Look at where his toes are pointing in the photo from behind. They don't point straight forward, they point out instead. Some of that could be my not great trimming jobs (still learning, I apologize to my goats a lot), but it's not likely solely that.


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

NDinKY said:


> Look at where his toes are pointing in the photo from behind. They don't point straight forward, they point out instead. Some of that could be my not great trimming jobs (still learning, I apologize to my goats a lot), but it's not likely solely that.


Oh makes sense. I have a doe that does that. Her hooves grow so much faster than the rest of my herd's and I have been unable to correct it so this somewhat explains that. Thank you for explaining.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Straight legs are better, you don’t want toed out or toed in for long term soundness.


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

NDinKY said:


> He definitely toes out, I didn't really set him up for the pic from behind, that's how he stopped.
> 
> He's our first buck but I actually think he's the least nice conformation wise. Seems very meaty and not very dairy. I actually haven't retained any of his kids yet, but when you throw all bucklings it doesn't make me want to keep them, lol.
> 
> MellonFriend, definitely great to be learning, I'm learning too. Feel free to pick him apart, he can take it!


You did a pretty good job setting him up!
Yes, that's a good way to describe him, much more meaty than dairy. I wouldn't keep him based on that and feet and legs. They are a huge part of the scorecard especially in a buck.


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

I should probably post pictures of my bucks one day too. It’s so helpful to have another person say what they like and dislike about them.


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

@Ashlynn & @NDinKY I don't know if it's trimming as much as structure because he's consistently toeing out in the front and rear.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> You did a pretty good job setting him up!
> Yes, that's a good way to describe him, much more meaty than dairy. I wouldn't keep him based on that and feet and legs. They are a huge part of the scorecard especially in a buck.


Thanks! He was pretty cooperative in setting up. I tried to get another one photographed tonight and he just didn't want to cooperate. Probably because we just had some girls in heat so his mind was elsewhere.

We probably will end up putting him up for sale. I think my does are nicer than he is so that means it is time for him to find a new herd where he can improve someone's does. Makes me sad but can't keep them all.


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

NDinKY said:


> We probably will end up putting him up for sale. I think my does are nicer than he is so that means it is time for him to find a new herd where he can improve someone's does. Makes me sad but can't keep them all.


I think that's a smart decision. Ideally you want the buck's dam to be nicer than any doe in your herd at that time. There are a lot of really nice Nigerian bucks in Kentucky too.


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

@Morning Star Farm I was trying to correct it with hoof trimming previously, but after she explained the term I was saying that my doe probably just has toes that naturally splay out as hoof trimming was not working.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

There definitely are a lot of nice ND around. One problem I’m running into though is how closely related many are. I don’t know enough yet to dabble in linebreeding but it seems so many goats have Very Nice Prolific Buck in their lines. I have one of his daughters, a granddaughter, and great grandson already. I’m thinking about trying to bring in a buckling from far away, like one from Very Nice Goat Farm. I can’t afford a lot of what is available locally as they’re all big show farms.


----------



## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

I have had trouble with finding un-related goats too. I’m in Florida though. Our last buck passed away but apparently had been around before we got him. Also there are 5 herds who just about every good Nigerian has ties to in my state and it’s hard to find goats who’s parents aren’t the same from those herds or aren’t related when you want a splash of new genetics. The show farms definitely run the place and get good money for their goats. They deserve it, but sometimes it’s frustrating when you feel like the only way to improve your herd is by buying from their line because the ones doing good in rings and markets are from or related to them. I’m thinking of saving up to bring one in from Arizona from a place I’ve had my eye on.


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Ashlynn said:


> @Morning Star Farm I was trying to correct it with hoof trimming previously, but after she explained the term I was saying that my doe probably just has toes that naturally splay out as hoof trimming was not working.


Yes, tight toes can be a confirmation issue. Those would be called loose toes.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Please do not mention names of breeders, we do not need to talk down about anyone.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Please do not mention names of breeders, we do not need to talk down about anyone.


Sorry, didn't realize that was an issue. Edited to "very nice goat" instead.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thank you.

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/rules.103532/

Bashing of other websites, forums or its members is not within the friendly atmosphere we desire here and post involving this will be removed or locked upon our discretion.


----------



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

I meant it as a compliment, not bashing. Didn’t realize it came across that way.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Morning Star Farm* was knocking down a breeder and that post seems to of been removed.

*NDinKY* you didn't do anything wrong.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Don't worry, you took care of it, all is good now. Deleting it was OK. 

Yes, it did seem to be cutting down the breeder. We have to be careful. 

You can always private message someone, if you want to warn them about a breeder, nothing wrong with that.


----------

