# Dairy goat not producing



## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

My dairy goat just kidded about 2 months ago and had a single buckling. I bottle feed after three days (so that the kid gets the colostrum in the first few days) and milk. She was producing about 1 1/2-2 gallons a day, but has recently gone down to about 1 gallon a day. She was very sick with parasites, so I know that was part of it. But I’d like to ask if y’all have any advice as to good things to feed dairy goats? I’ve heard sun flower seeds are good... we feed her about 2 guarts of 16% sweet feed twice a day. She’s a little over weight, and I am hoping to show her in the next few months. But if we go down on the feed, her production will fall even more. Ever since she’s gotten better from the parasites, her production has gone up. But I was just wondering if there is any natural and healthy way to get her back to producing what she was, while keeping her weight down.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Well parasites do reduce milk production, so she may just still be recovering from this. Which worms did she have? I would switch from a sweet feed to a balanced goat pellet, and add some alfalfa pellets (or alfalfa hay). Alfalfa pellets and oats are also a good ration. Black oil sunflower seeds are good for providing some omega fatty acids, so is flax. I give my wethers flax and the do very well on it. Does she have loose minerals? Have you gotten a fecal again to make sure she is parasite free?

You can also provide some herbal support to increase milk, nettle, red raspberry, milk thistle, dill or fennel. If you don't have access to these herbs easily or just don't want to source them -- you can also purchase this: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p885/Herb_Mix_MilkMaid_(tm)__8_oz.html


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Well parasites do reduce milk production, so she may just still be recovering from this. Which worms did she have? I would switch from a sweet feed to a balanced goat pellet, and add some alfalfa pellets (or alfalfa hay). Alfalfa pellets and oats are also a good ration. Black oil sunflower seeds are good for providing some omega fatty acids, so is flax. I give my wethers flax and the do very well on it. Does she have loose minerals? Have you gotten a fecal again to make sure she is parasite free?
> 
> You can also provide some herbal support to increase milk, nettle, red raspberry, milk thistle, dill or fennel. If you don't have access to these herbs easily or just don't want to source them -- you can also purchase this: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p885/Herb_Mix_MilkMaid_(tm)__8_oz.html


I am sorry to say I don't remember that name of the parasite... thinking it started with a p? We are missing the paper the vet sent home with us, been a busy week! 
I have been thinking about an alfalfa pellet feed. How much would you recommend? She is 148 pounds.
What do you mean loose minerals? 
And the vet wants us to drop off a fecal sample in a few days. She was very anemic when we took her to the vet, but her color is starting to improve so that tells me she is getting better.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> I am sorry to say I don't remember that name of the parasite... thinking it started with a p? We are missing the paper the vet sent home with us, been a busy week!
> I have been thinking about an alfalfa pellet feed. How much would you recommend? She is 148 pounds.
> What do you mean loose minerals?
> And the vet wants us to drop off a fecal sample in a few days. She was very anemic when we took her to the vet, but her color is starting to improve so that tells me she is getting better.


What hay is she currently getting? If she isn't on alfalfa hay I would add alfalfa pellets. Most do a 1 to 1 ratio with grain, start with 1/2 cup and build up from there.

Loose minerals -- quite possibly one of the most important parts of a goat's diet. Loose minerals (powder, granules, not a block) are , a necessity. For reference, some popular brands are Sweetlix Meat Maker 16:8, Manna Pro Goat Mineral, or Purina Wind Rain & Storm Cattle Mineral (not that all of these are my suggestions to feed, but I am listing their names so you can go look them up and see what I mean by "loose minerals")

Loose minerals are fed free choice (offered 24/7) goats self-regulate them.

Was the parasite perhaps barberpole worm? This is the most common one to cause anemia.

If so, I would definitely get another fecal done to make sure you got rid of it.

May we see photos of her? Full body, including some of her tail and face?


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> What hay is she currently getting? If she isn't on alfalfa hay I would add alfalfa pellets. Most do a 1 to 1 ratio with grain, start with 1/2 cup and build up from there.
> 
> Loose minerals -- quite possibly one of the most important parts of a goat's diet. Loose minerals (powder, granules, not a block) are , a necessity. For reference, some popular brands are Sweetlix Meat Maker 16:8, Manna Pro Goat Mineral, or Purina Wind Rain & Storm Cattle Mineral (not that all of these are my suggestions to feed, but I am listing their names so you can go look them up and see what I mean by "loose minerals")
> 
> ...


We feed her Timothy hay, but are going to buy some alfalfa hay once the Timothy is gone. 
They have a salt lick in the pasture that is covered. I was actually just recently thinking we should replace it, maybe with something better. I will look into those things you mentioned. 
I don't remember the name, but we are going to do a fecal sample every 1-2 months. 
(Her name is Ila, by the way)


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> What hay is she currently getting? If she isn't on alfalfa hay I would add alfalfa pellets. Most do a 1 to 1 ratio with grain, start with 1/2 cup and build up from there.
> 
> Loose minerals -- quite possibly one of the most important parts of a goat's diet. Loose minerals (powder, granules, not a block) are , a necessity. For reference, some popular brands are Sweetlix Meat Maker 16:8, Manna Pro Goat Mineral, or Purina Wind Rain & Storm Cattle Mineral (not that all of these are my suggestions to feed, but I am listing their names so you can go look them up and see what I mean by "loose minerals")
> 
> ...


I don't know why this photo didn't upload, sorry!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

@mariarose care to chime in?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> View attachment 159583
> 
> 
> We feed her Timothy hay, but are going to buy some alfalfa hay once the Timothy is gone.
> ...


Just to be clear, loose minerals are not optional. Salt blocks are just that - salt. Goats need more than salt. They do still need salt, so salt licks are okay, and with her FAMACHA score I would be getting a cobalt salt lick for extra support. But please, I cannot stress this enough, get her a good loose mineral! If you are unsure of which to get, you are always invited to read and participate in this thread: http://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/excellent-minerals-you-know-how-i-love-me-those-minerals.194612/


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Just to be clear, loose minerals are not optional. Salt blocks are just that - salt. Goats need more than salt. They do still need salt, so salt licks are okay, and with her FAMACHA score I would be getting a cobalt salt lick for extra support. But please, I cannot stress this enough, get her a good loose mineral! If you are unsure of which to get, you are always invited to read and participate in this thread: http://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/excellent-minerals-you-know-how-i-love-me-those-minerals.194612/


The feed I use has all the minerals the goats need. I will look into the things you have mentioned like the sun flower seeds and things for milk production. Thank you!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> The feed I use has all the minerals the goats need. I will look into the things you have mentioned like the sun flower seeds and things for milk production. Thank you!


What feed has are you feeding that has enough mineral for them? I have never heard of not giving mineral. Or a feed that has enough for a goat. You could also try doing pelleted feed... the molasses and sugars in the sweet feed do nothing for her but keep her a bit chunky really.. since you said about her weight. I am not tryin be snarky just curious. Feed is usually a pound of feed for a pound of milk.. how much does she get a day. Also... her production we t down from the worms... it may increase some but you will most likely have a hard time getting it back to where it was before them sadly. Yes. It can increase but that much of a difference is hard to get back.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Why do you say Ila is overweight?

Quality loose minerals.

Whole oats, whole barley, sprouted together in the same bucket. After sprouting mix half the feeding ration volume of the sprouts with half the feeding ration volume of alfalfa pellets. This will be a fairly simple powerhouse of nutrition to provide milk without a lot of sugar to turn to fat.


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> What feed has are you feeding that has enough mineral for them? I have never heard of not giving mineral. Or a feed that has enough for a goat. You could also try doing pelleted feed... the molasses and sugars in the sweet feed do nothing for her but keep her a bit chunky really.. since you said about her weight. I am not tryin be snarky just curious. Feed is usually a pound of feed for a pound of milk.. how much does she get a day. Also... her production we t down from the worms... it may increase some but you will most likely have a hard time getting it back to where it was before them sadly. Yes. It can increase but that much of a difference is hard to get back.


We give her about 2 quarts of 16% sweet feed. Everyone on this forum thinks sweet feed is the worst thing for a goat, which I don't understand because we have been using it for years without any problem. I personally know breeders who prefer it over alfalfa feed because that is sometimes too rich for goats and can upset their stomachs. So, not to sound contradicting, just trying to understand... I've never heard of giving extra minerals! Haha


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Why do you say Ila is overweight?
> 
> Quality loose minerals.
> 
> Whole oats, whole barley, sprouted together in the same bucket. After sprouting mix half the feeding ration volume of the sprouts with half the feeding ration volume of alfalfa pellets. This will be a fairly simple powerhouse of nutrition to provide milk without a lot of sugar to turn to fat.


For some reason in these pictures she doesn't look as chunky as she does in person, haha 
Thank you so much for the detailed advice!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Alpine Crazy 
I'm an Alpine girl myself. I don't have any purebreds any longer, but Alpines are in almost everyone I've got now.

Sweet feeds vary wildly in quality, perhaps that is one thing people are reacting to. I'm OK with feeding a somewhat sweet feed in the wintertime because of the extra energy in it. My goats live pretty rough. In the Summer, I steer clear, because of mold issues. I'm even more standoffish this year than in the past because although we are always humid, this year has been more like a rainforest...

My husband has PTSD pretty bad, and this actually isn't helping, because he says we smell like the jungle here. He was deep in jungle-y conflict rather than sandy conflict you see.

But some sweet feeds are just plain not great food and the molasses is used to cover it up and make the animals want to eat it.

And if you have a lot of molasses in the feed and molasses in the supplemental tubs, and molasses in this and molasses in that, It can really add up to a LOT of sugar, and make the goats sick. And sometimes people don't think about the rest of the feed regimen when they make choices.

Another problem is that sometimes people really think that concentrates can take the place of hay. And they give that because cheap feeds can be a LOT cheaper than hay, because of subsidies.

Which leads me to corn. Extremely! heavily! subsidized corn, which has very little food value unlike other grains, acts just like a sugar, and is usually the first ingredient in... sweet feeds.

I'm not saying you are doing any of this. I'm just bringing up some reasons why there is resistance to sweet feed on here. Sometimes, it's just a lot simpler to say, "Don't give a cheap sweet feed."

If you've had success with your feed, and it is in balance with the rest of your feed, then OK. I don't want you feeling unwelcome here or like we have a uniformity requirement.

Because you are very welcome, and we are uniform only in wanting to care for our animals.

But do give them a quality loose mineral, please. And an iodized salt lick. This will save you a lot of vet bills and loss of productivity.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@mariarose Thank you for taking the time to give such an informative and well written explanation. :clapping:


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

mariarose said:


> @Alpine Crazy
> I'm an Alpine girl myself. I don't have any purebreds any longer, but Alpines are in almost everyone I've got now.
> 
> Sweet feeds vary wildly in quality, perhaps that is one thing people are reacting to. I'm OK with feeding a somewhat sweet feed in the wintertime because of the extra energy in it. My goats live pretty rough. In the Summer, I steer clear, because of mold issues. I'm even more standoffish this year than in the past because although we are always humid, this year has been more like a rainforest...
> ...


Thank you so much for this! I can understand now, haha
Last night and this morning I have gone out to the barn to find a very full udder on my Ila! Very excited about that. It must have been the parasites. But I will take your advice anyways, thank you @mariarose


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> The feed I use has all the minerals the goats need. I will look into the things you have mentioned like the sun flower seeds and things for milk production. Thank you!


This statement is untrue. Feeds do not contain enough minerals for goats.

This may sound odd, but have you read any specific books on Goat Care or had any website sources? I'm only asking because there are a few mineral-biased sources out there, and I'm just very curious?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Alpine Crazy I do invite you to read this ongoing thread on mineral mixes. It is full of information not only on the importance of minerals, but perhaps as important, which products are best and what makes them best. Many links, too.
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/excellent-minerals-you-know-how-i-love-me-those-minerals.194612/


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> This statement is untrue. Feeds do not contain enough minerals for goats.
> 
> This may sound odd, but have you read any specific books on Goat Care or had any website sources? I'm only asking because there are a few mineral-biased sources out there, and I'm just very curious?


Yes, I am crazy with the goat books lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You might like this Blog, it is one of my favourites
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/
Here is the goat category
https://thriftyhomesteader.com/category/goats/


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> Yes, I am crazy with the goat books lol


Any titles you care to share?


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Any titles you care to share?


My definite favorite is Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats, by Jerry Belanger. Lots of good info. I also have a really good book on all sorts of animals (including goats) A Veterinary Guide for Animals Owners, by C. E. Spaulding D.V.M. Also good ol' google has lots of good info, but I know not to believe everything that is said on the internet! (thumbup)


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

mariarose said:


> You might like this Blog, it is one of my favourites
> https://thriftyhomesteader.com/
> Here is the goat category
> https://thriftyhomesteader.com/category/goats/


Thanks! I'll read into that! Haha, y'all have given me lots of home work!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> My definite favorite is Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats, by Jerry Belanger. Lots of good info. I also have a really good book on all sorts of animals (including goats) A Veterinary Guide for Animals Owners, by C. E. Spaulding D.V.M. Also good ol' google has lots of good info, but I know not to believe everything that is said on the internet! (thumbup)


Haha oh how did I know it! This makes so much more sense now - Storey's. It is a very biased book, and they completely discount minerals being necessary. I would not trust the majority of the information in that book.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, I don't think it's like that... I find it very out of date on the science, and it really is centered close to home in Wisconsin, rather than all the U.S. or Globally. But to reject most of it... No, too much baby going out with the bathwater...

The really good thing about the book is it makes proper care of a dairy herd actually doable. And it gives a really good framework of knowledge that we can hang new info onto as we learn it, so that we aren't reinventing the wheel.

I liked it. But I've move on as well.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Oh, I don't think it's like that... I find it very out of date on the science, and it really is centered close to home in Wisconsin, rather than all the U.S. or Globally. But to reject most of it... No, too much baby going out with the bathwater...
> 
> The really good thing about the book is it makes proper care of a dairy herd actually doable. And it gives a really good framework of knowledge that we can hang new info onto as we learn it, so that we aren't reinventing the wheel.
> 
> I liked it. But I've move on as well.


I took great information out of it, but I sorted through a whole lot of misinformation as well. I am not discounting the whole book, it has really good parts.

And I quote:

"Most raisers supply loose minerals or mineralized salt blocks free choice and also add dairy minerals to the feed. There is some indication that this is unnecessary, expensive, and perhaps even dangerous to double up in the feed (...) goats that are well feed on plants and plant products from a variety of sources, grown on organically fertile soil, probably have little or no need for additional minerals."

This has some good points and some bad points. I assume in the area this was written for the plants aren't nutrient deficienct from the soil - that is uncommon in most areas however.


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

We have used the book for as long as we’ve had goats and have had healthy and happy little goaties  
It is, indeed, old. But there’s a lot of good stuff in there.  (we mostly use it for kidding season, though)


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, I agree. In fact, I think he got it completely backwards. He should have said to forget about the minerals in the feed, and only go with loose minerals and focus on remineralizing the pastures and pens. So he was right, and wrong, simultaneously.

But many people will talk about giving this plant product for that nutrient, as if the wiped out soil makes no difference. So, Yeah. But he was not rejecting the idea of minerals altogether. 

That's what I mean about the framework. You can learn that minerals are important, and later learn that the soils aren't adequate, and still later learn that goats need more or different minerals than sheep...

Not ideal, but an old book from an old farmer that inspires and makes it seem doable. That's how I see it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@healthyishappy @PetLover as young and upcoming goat farmers, do you have any thoughts on this?
@Suzanne_Tyler you are wise in the ways of minerals and nutrition and purebred Alpines in the Southeast, love for you to chime in, if you'd like.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Yes, I agree. In fact, I think he got it completely backwards. He should have said to forget about the minerals in the feed, and only go with loose minerals and focus on remineralizing the pastures and pens. So he was right, and wrong, simultaneously.
> 
> But many people will talk about giving this plant product for that nutrient, as if the wiped out soil makes no difference. So, Yeah. But he was not rejecting the idea of minerals altogether.
> 
> ...


I don't have a problem with the book, it's got great info for certain aspects. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt still. Or a grain of minerals


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

I am not trying to prove anyone wrong here. Just trying to understand and keep my goaties healthy and happy! Thanks for all the input!


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

Maybe it’s time to upgrade our goat library :shrug:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> Maybe it's time to upgrade our goat library :shrug:


I recommend Holistic Goat Care by Gianaclis Caldwell, Natural Goat Care by Pat Coleby (has good mineral info, but must also be taken with a grain of salt as she is from across the world and has different needs for supplementation), and Raising Goats Naturally by Deborah Niemann (second favorite).


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> I am not trying to prove anyone wrong here. Just trying to understand and keep my goaties healthy and happy! Thanks for all the input!


Of course not! Everyone here works towards one goal -- optimal goat health. We educate others, share thoughts, and learn something new every day. It's all good. :hug:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Now, I don't care for Pat Coleby's book enough to recommend it. I can recommend the other 2.

More than them though, if you are serious about a revamping, is an excellent Vet school textbook. I'll find it and put a link here in the message. Honestly, I'd own it myself, except I can read it any time I want to at the vet's office. Here it is.
https://www.amazon.com/Sheep-Goat-M...0087K6PJA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 E-book or Hardcover.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Now, I don't care for Pat Coleby's book enough to recommend it. I can recommend the other 2.
> 
> More than them though, if you are serious about a revamping, is an excellent Vet school textbook. I'll find it and put a link here in the message. Honestly, I'd own it myself, except I can read it any time I want to at the vet's office. I'll edit this later with the link. So check back.


I find Pat's provides an interesting point of view. Not necessarily one I listen to, but I recommend it because it provides interesting info just to read and add to a point of view.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Following. All good info here


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I find Pat's provides an interesting point of view. Not necessarily one I listen to, but I recommend it because it provides interesting info just to read and add to a point of view.


Yeah, I just wouldn't suggest someone buy it. Interlibrary Loan is a thing.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Yeah, I just wouldn't suggest someone buy it. Interlibrary Loan is a thing.


Hah yes, if you don't want to waste your money for an extra point of view that's less helpful I get that.

I bought Storey's when I was consulting with someone who had all kinds of misinformation and said Storey's was her husbands only book of reference.

I don't find buying any book a waste, but if you can get it on loan that's a plus.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I bought Storey's when I was consulting with someone who had all kinds of misinformation and said Storey's was her husbands only book of reference.


Well, that's for work...


NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I don't find buying any book a waste,


I sure do, many of them.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

mariarose said:


> @healthyishappy @PetLover as young and upcoming goat farmers, do you have any thoughts on this?
> @Suzanne_Tyler you are wise in the ways of minerals and nutrition and purebred Alpines in the Southeast, love for you to chime in, if you'd like.


Thoughts about what?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

healthyishappy said:


> Thoughts about what?


The thread, and what immediately preceded my mentioning you.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Hmmm.....
I think that loose minerals are definitely needed. Feed cannot contain enough minerals. I think that a lot of goat books are not true. As in the ones I have!


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

It's the same with horses and training and probably anything to do with animals. There is good info and bad info. Some works for others what might not work for another. I for one am as thankful to learn the bad as much as the good! That way I can learn from it and try not to go that way with training feed or whatever it is I'm doing. 
@Alpine Crazy i hope you figure out a good feed regimens and all goes well


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## PetLover (Apr 26, 2019)

mariarose said:


> @healthyishappy @PetLover as young and upcoming goat farmers, do you have any thoughts on this?


I think loose minerals is a must! Just like water is a must for us humans That is just my opinion!


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

Alright so everyone has said loose minerals... I haven’t been out the past few days so I haven’t had the chance to buy them but what do y’all use? I know you have given me ideas but any specific things that work for you?


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## PetLover (Apr 26, 2019)

Alpine Crazy said:


> Alright so everyone has said loose minerals... I haven't been out the past few days so I haven't had the chance to buy them but what do y'all use? I know you have given me ideas but any specific things that work for you?


I really like this one!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ideas for what we use and why are why I invited you to read the mineral thread.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Alpine Crazy said:


> Alright so everyone has said loose minerals... I haven't been out the past few days so I haven't had the chance to buy them but what do y'all use? I know you have given me ideas but any specific things that work for you?


I highly suggest reading the thread @mariarose suggested.
I use purina wind and rain and sweetlix.
Cargills right now onyx and coop supreme goat mineral are also used by others and are good minerals.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

The thread linked many times for you has probably all the info you’d need, and if not you can participate in it by asking your own questions 

Purina Wind Rain & Storm is a pretty good mineral and easy to find, TSC should carry it. Manna Pro goat mineral is very popular and can be easily found, however it is low in many things and most goats still experience deficiencies on it unless additionally supplemented.

Sweetlix Meat Maker 16:8 (unmedicated) is easily found, Jeffers pet sells it. In my opinion it may be one of the best minerals out there, and I recommend it above all else.

A popular mineral on this forum is Cargill’s Right Now Onyx, however this and another AMAZING mineral which is Co-op Supreme are both difficult to find.

I would try for Sweetlix.

Locally, however, there may be a diamond in the rough brand that a feed store or co-op sells that’s a good mineral — any questions on brands simply post the ingredients list and guaranteed analysis to Maria’s thread and many people will chime in to tell you if it’s good or not.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Note that if you choose to use the manna pro mineral you will have to supplement a LOT.
Mannapro is a last resort mineral in my opinion. All the other mentioned minerals are cheaper than manna pro and more balanced.
I seem to have quite an opinion of manna pro and have evidence to back up my beliefs.
I used it for over 6 months and it did nothing for my goats, turned to PWR and my goats are looking WAY better! Plus many people who come on this forum with mineral deficient goats lots of times are using manna pro.
I agree with @NigerianDwarfOwner707.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

healthyishappy said:


> Note that if you choose to use the manna pro mineral you will have to supplement a LOT.
> I agree with @NigerianDwarfOwner707.


Yep, additional supplementation is needed, but if Manna Pro is your only available option we can make it work.


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Ideas for what we use and why are why I invited you to read the mineral thread.


For some reason I can't find the link to your thread, could you please send it to me? I'd appreciate it


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> The thread linked many times for you has probably all the info you'd need, and if not you can participate in it by asking your own questions
> 
> Purina Wind Rain & Storm is a pretty good mineral and easy to find, TSC should carry it. Manna Pro goat mineral is very popular and can be easily found, however it is low in many things and most goats still experience deficiencies on it unless additionally supplemented.
> 
> ...


For some reason the link has disappeared but thank you for all this info


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Alpine Crazy said:


> For some reason I can't find the link to your thread, could you please send it to me? I'd appreciate it


http://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/excellent-minerals-you-know-how-i-love-me-those-minerals.194612/


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Alpine Crazy said:


> For some reason the link has disappeared but thank you for all this info


Looks like the link is working for ya!


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

healthyishappy said:


> Looks like the link is working for ya!


 Yup  I am officially part of the thread, thanks!


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Alpine Crazy said:


> Yup  I am officially part of the thread, thanks!


I'm glad!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

There is not a commercial feed available that provides 100% of the vitamins and minerals an animal needs, the federal government prohibits it. A lot of the minerals are poisonous if taken in large amounts, so feeds and minerals do not contain a full daily amount. Even with the loose minerals AND feed, it still usually does not provide 100% of the RDA of certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins, but it comes much closer than no loose minerals at all.


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

lottsagoats1 said:


> There is not a commercial feed available that provides 100% of the vitamins and minerals an animal needs, the federal government prohibits it. A lot of the minerals are poisonous if taken in large amounts, so feeds and minerals do not contain a full daily amount. Even with the loose minerals AND feed, it still usually does not provide 100% of the RDA of certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins, but it comes much closer than no loose minerals at all.


Oh wow that makes a lot more sense now, thanks!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Selenium and copper are two such minerals that commercial feed can only put a little of in the feed. Some places have a lot of selenium in their soil and the animals get it from the hay etc. Some species can't tolerate a lot of copper, so, to be safe for the entire marketing area, they put in the minimum. Nutrition and minerals sure can be confusing! 

I'm lucky, my hay is so poor that I know they need additional minerals! And our water is hard so copper bolus's are a must! No guessing at all! So, I follow all the helpful suggestions posted here on minerals, etc.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goats Rock said:


> I'm lucky, my hay is so poor that I know they need additional minerals! And our water is hard so copper bolus's are a must! No guessing at all!


The blessing of paucity!


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

This is the feed I've been feeding. Plus I got some minerals from our local farm co-op. I also added alfalfa pellets and Timothy hay to her diet. What do y'all think?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I prefer this one
https://www.southernstates.com/cata...gory=horse-livestock+livestock+livestock-feed to the Top Choice Goat Mineral. If your store carries it, perhaps choose that one next time and see how you like it?

Textured sweet feed can have mold problems (mold can kill, so it is kinda serious) so be really vigilant about keeping that bag all sealed up when you aren't actually into it, and look at it closely as you move toward the bottom of the bag.

Everything is molding here for me, so it's a good thing for most of us to watch for, imo.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I prefer this one
> https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/product/p-9961-southern-states-traditions-weathershed-21-beef-mineral-50-lb?category=horse-livestock+livestock+livestock-feed to the Top Choice Goat Mineral. If your store carries it, perhaps choose that one next time and see how you like it?
> 
> Textured sweet feed can have mold problems (mold can kill, so it is kinda serious) so be really vigilant about keeping that bag all sealed up when you aren't actually into it, and look at it closely as you move toward the bottom of the bag.
> ...


Honestly Manna Pro with iodized salt and Replamin in my opinion would be better than the southern states top choice goat mineral. That's how much I dislike that mineral. I have a friend who used it and had severe copper deficiencies and zinc issues and it didn't resolve until she added TruCare4.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I prefer this one
> https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/product/p-9961-southern-states-traditions-weathershed-21-beef-mineral-50-lb?category=horse-livestock+livestock+livestock-feed to the Top Choice Goat Mineral. If your store carries it, perhaps choose that one next time and see how you like it?
> 
> Textured sweet feed can have mold problems (mold can kill, so it is kinda serious) so be really vigilant about keeping that bag all sealed up when you aren't actually into it, and look at it closely as you move toward the bottom of the bag.
> ...


Honestly for now it's probably cool until she can get another, as she already needs to do some catch up on deficiencies with copper bolusing and even Replamin to get the over a hump of being in a without-minerals state.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Honestly for now it's probably cool until she can get another,


Yes, I know. That's why I said she might like to check it out after this bag...


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Honestly for now it's probably cool until she can get another, as she already needs to do some catch up on deficiencies with copper bolusing and even Replamin to get the over a hump of being in a without-minerals state.


She did have minerals. There are all sorts of minerals in the sweet feed. But ever since I put her on this new diet she has been producing a lot of milk! She produces about 1 1/2 gallon a day! I'm having fun making cheese 
But besides the milk production everyone seems healthy, which is of course most important.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Alpine Crazy said:


> There are all sorts of minerals in the sweet feed.


Yes, we understand. But by law they can't have enough minerals in the bagged feed, because of toxicity issues. Bagged feed goes all over the place, you see. And the level of copper that is needed for me would kill a goat that is elsewhere. So bagged feed only has a little bit of each mineral.

So when we talk between ourselves, we talk like it doesn't have added minerals, because it doesn't have enough to really consider. It's just an "understood shorthand" really.

I'm so glad you are happy. That level of copper is quite low in that mineral, so be sure you keep watching for those signs. And keep looking out for mold in the sweet feed, OK?


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## Alpine Crazy (Jul 14, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Yes, we understand. But by law they can't have enough minerals in the bagged feed, because of toxicity issues. Bagged feed goes all over the place, you see. And the level of copper that is needed for me would kill a goat that is elsewhere. So bagged feed only has a little bit of each mineral.
> 
> So when we talk between ourselves, we talk like it doesn't have added minerals, because it doesn't have enough to really consider. It's just an "understood shorthand" really.
> 
> I'm so glad you are happy. That level of copper is quite low in that mineral, so be sure you keep watching for those signs. And keep looking out for mold in the sweet feed, OK?


OK! Thank you!


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Alpine Crazy said:


> The feed I use has all the minerals the goats need. I will look into the things you have mentioned like the sun flower seeds and things for milk production. Thank you!


I wouldn't trust that! I'd leave loose minerals out just in case. If the feed really does have everything they'll go through the minerals super slowly.

If not you'll be glad you got the minerals.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Yes on this forum when we refer to minerals we mean loose mineral mixes. Everything else seems obsolete as it contains very sparse amounts. So she didn’t have minerals, she had feed. Just clarifying.

And really do watch the sweet feed mold can sneak past you and suddenly the next day you notice it. Just like chaffhaye, darn stuff.

If you switched to a pellet feed ration you may notice your milk production goes up EVEN higher. Milk is also been said to taste better w/out sweet feed. Just a thought.


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