# Milking Dilemma - should I let her kids back overnight?



## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

I have a doe who freshened for the 2nd time just over 5 weeks ago with quads. She's been with me since Feb of this year so it's my first time milking her, I don't think she was milked previously. She's had a bit of a learning curve but so far has done ok.

I've been milking her in the morning without separating the kids overnight, so not getting much milk. I just wanted to get her used to the routine, and with 4 mouths to feed I wanted to be sure the kids had first dibs. She's averaging just under half a pound per milking once a day in the morning.

Two nights ago, after their 5 week weigh in showed a nice steady gain, I started separating the kids at night. Of course she was unsettled the next morning with 4 kids screaming for breakfast, but came to the barn and gave me about a pound of milk. All seemed fine the rest of that day.

Last night I put the kids away again, but this morning she would not come out of the shelter for milking. I had to go put a leash on her and bribe her with her most favourite treat. She was very unsettled on the stand, didn't touch her grain, and kept trying to sit down just like the old days. And she gave me less than half a pound. I'd say she was just holding back, but her udder was noticeably smaller and softer than the previous morning. 

Since I put her back with her kids, I've been watching her as there's been a fair bit of crying. She often won't let them nurse (though sometimes does), and they cry a lot for her and try to nurse, acting hungry. Sometimes they cry and she doesn't answer back even though she's just around the corner. She's also standing around a lot looking mopey/grumpy, and I swear she's giving me dirty looks. 

Her temp is normal, she's eating and drinking fine, and accepts my peace offerings, ie treats. But I'm a bit worried that I've stressed her out and her milk is starting to dry up because a) she gave me so little this morning out of a soft udder after being separated from her 4 kids for 12 hours and b) the kids are crying and acting hungry at times, where they never have before. 

Should I keep her with her kids at night and forget about trying to get more than a token amount of milk from her until they're weaned? Or should I call her bluff (assuming that's what it is???) and continue separating them at night? I'd rather go without milk if it means she's stressed and the kids won't get enough, but I've never had a doe do this before so I'm not sure what to do???


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm very inexperienced, but my intuition on this one is that maybe four hungry kids unleashed on her in the morning might have hurt her teats?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would wait to separate until at least 8 weeks old. Put her on the stand to get the token amount.


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

I only milk once a day (at night) but this is what I do...

After a week old I separate the kids in the morning. This works out because they can start creep feeding on their own. I provide grain, hay and fresh water for them. They can see their mothers through a no climb horse fence and their hay is side by side, but divided through the fence so it seems like they're eating together. I start milking the does when I separate so I get more than just a little milk. After I milk I turn the does out with the kids for the evening/night. I haven't ever had a problem with the kids not getting enough milk. In fact, I think it increases the does milk production and also gets the kids going on grain and hay faster. If shes got quads you might not want to separate for 8 hours, maybe wait just 4?

I've had finicky does that are upset when separated from their kids/herd, but I hooked up a makeshift sling to hold her up and hobbles to know she won't get away with not letting me milk her. She fussed for a whole season, but this year there was quite a bit of improvement (no sling or hobbles).

Some ideas to get your doe to settle down... bring the kids in the milk room with her, or bring a doe friend that is calm. Also look into mastitis and make sure she doesn't have that before assuming its a behavioral problem.

Keep at it, experiment with it and what works for you. Even if it seems unconventional to others. If it works for you and your goats, go for it!


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't think I'd be milking a doe that is feeding quads. I think it's good to put her through the routine in the morning just to get her used to it, but I wouldn't be separating them at this point. She's having to make a lot of milk to feed four babies, and they need everything they can get from her. I'd wait until you wean them to seriously milk her, but I like that you are putting her through the motions in the morning to get used to the routine.


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

OK I decided to put them all back together at night and just continue my token morning milking until they go to their new homes. 

I really don't think she had any physical issues (mastitis, teat injuries), nor is she normally anxious on the stand. it was more that she seemed stressed about the separation overnight and I was worried her milk supply and attachment to them would suffer as a result. 

The kids are all growing at a terrific rate, so obviously she has loads of milk for them. Usually I will start milking at 1-3 weeks but all depends on how many kids, their birth weights, their rate of growth, overall health of mom and babes, etc. This group seemed ready in terms of weight gain, but apparently mom is not.

I have a ND doe who has freshened twice with me, triplets each time. First time I didn't start milking until about 8 weeks just because I was super busy that year. This time I started at 3 days but didn't separate until 2 weeks, and only after their weight checks were pushing them into the chubby-pie zone. This year's kids have grown even faster than last year's and she still gives me over 2 lbs a day while continuing to nurse her doeling without being separated at night. Mind you, she has an excellent appetite lol! I do think the decision on if and when to separate is dependent on the individual doe, as well as how her kids are doing of course. 

But this mom seems like she needs to be with her little ones a while longer and she's back to her normal self now that I'm keeping them together overnight again. I guess she and Ms. Super Producer will just have to balance each other out for a while.


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