# Narcissus Kidded! (problem pg 2)



## AlaskaBoers

1 doe 1 buck.

4 hours of labor- went in a pulled a buck with head back, and only one leg forward. then pulled a doe kids who cme breech. 
Narcie had NO milk. :veryangry: so I'm bottle feeding, a breeder friend bought the buck as a market project. (feel bad for him being young- but shes a good goat person and raises lots of kids.) 

the doe is having a tough time getting around. but she can stand and walk a bit. 

ugh....lots of work. pictures tommorrow.


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## Native87

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Congratulations. Can't wait to see the pics.


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## Sweet Gum Minis

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Congratulations on the new babis! Hope her milk comes in soon.


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

so a bottle feeding q:

the doe dranks about 1/2 cup, is that good enough? her temp is 101.2. I'm worried about her since she still cant stand. So shes snuggled in a sweater with a blanket on a folding chair with Narcissus laying next to it. I've fed her three times and shes taken over 2cups.


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## Mare

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

:kidred: Congrats on the new bady. Hope all goes well and she starts moving around soon on her own. Send pic's when you get a chance!


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## StaceyRosado

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

do you have any selenium gel or BoSe?

I would continue to feed her as she wants -- 2 cups is 16oz so thats not a bad amount for the first few hours.


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## SterlingAcres

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Maybe BoSe or Nutri-Drench would help?

Congrats on the new additions. I hope Narcie's milk comes in soon. :hug:


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## sweetgoats

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

I had one that had a little trouble, but she is fine now. I gave her 24 hours and all is well. I believe the problem was they were so big and not enough room in mom.

Congratulations on the babies, quick thinking to pull the babies.

As for the milk, are you giving mom Molasses water? Let her have as much as she would like. That really helps. I use about a 1/2 cup of molasses to a bucket of very warm water, (remember they can have water a lot hotter then we can, their body temp is higher then ours). I am trying to think how big the bucket it, It is not real large. Just make the molasses pretty strong, like a very dark tea.


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## toth boer goats

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Oh man that is tough....did you give any colostrum?

Everyone has great advice... :wink: :greengrin:

You say.. she has no milk? Not even a teaspoon?

Oxytocin will help drop her milk and by stimulating her udder... by bumping and milking what you can get out ...helps bring down that milk....better yet......get the kid to suckle her....even if she gets just a little at a time...if it isn't to late.... it may take a while ...but eventually ....she should start producing more each time.... you can keep bottle feeding plus... take the kid to mom ....she may be able to feed her kid....and you won't have to bottle feed for long.... stimulation and Oxytocin will help.... I pray.. it isn't to late and the doe doesn't reject the kid(s) :hug: ray:

If the kid is strong enough... to be with mom...and she excepts her...I would leave her with mom....and supplement bottle feed ....until the doe gets her milk in..... and at the same time ...the baby nurses and helps with stimulation... :wink:


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

the baby is still with narcie. she does a good job licking, and encouraging. (I dont think she could handle both babies leaving, though she didnt seem to notice when the buck left) and the baby has a "safe sot" where she has a light. I've been stimulating the udder, and rubbed some mint udder rub on it. I'll see if I can get oxytocin.

and yup, no milk at all. I gave her colostrum replacer (i hated doing it, but shes doing good now) and I have a gallon of goats milk coming this afternoon. I also had a kid who couldnt stand, after two days she picked it up, that was calypso. 

thanks everyone, I'll get some pictures- last night I went and got a dog sweater (adorable!)


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## toth boer goats

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Your welcome Katrina....

does she look bagged up or like she never formed one.....

Sorry your doe didn't have colostrum.....  that is such a bummer.... :hug: At least you got colostrum replacer into her ...it is alot better than nothing.... keep up the good work on mom....and baby ...I hope... you can get oxytocin, but I think there is a window ...that you can do that in..... If not.... keep doing what your doing... to stimulate her udder.... she should start producing some soon... for you... I am glad she is being a good momma ... feed her real good quality hay...Alfalfa would be best.... and give her grain... 
Love to see pics.... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

her udder is formed and does look bigger than yesterday. went ahead and shaved it (long and shaggy). I'm going to get a bale of Alfalfa (cha-ching) and call some breeders about the tocin.

baby is doing well, drank 2 cups this morning. didnt go to school...must take care of my goats  
still not walking, but she can stand, its just the back feet giving her a hassle now.


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## toth boer goats

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

Just curious...Is her udder OK ...no mastitis right?

I know about the...(cha-ching).. :shocked: but the Alfalfa... will help her more...

So happy the baby is doing well..... :greengrin:

That is the best excuse any caring and beautiful person can do.....to save a precious life.... I commend you highly Katrina.... :thumbup: :thumb:

Is her back legs bending back... the wrong way?...if so... in the mean time of waiting for the Bo-Se to kick in....if her ligaments are to stretched and weak...I make up a make shift brace ...so she can allow the ligs to tighten faster........ Also I give nutra drench 1x a day... until they get there strength back... Good luck..... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

yes, her udder is normal, just dry. no temp.

yeah her backs are bending the wrong way- but she can stand for awhile now. yay!


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## toth boer goats

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

That is good.. that her udder is OK.... just wanted to make sure.... :wink: :hug:

The baby should be OK........ :greengrin: Keep up the good work.... :hi5: :clap: :thumbup: :thumb:


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## nancy d

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

congrats on those baies! eww rear legs bending backward not a purdy sight. Did you give him any BoSe?
Mom not having milk now that one is a puzzle for sure. Never heard of it..Any clues? (when you get the time)


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded!*

yeah eww dont do that!!! lol
shes got a handle on standing now, and even took a few steps, saw the mom and tried jumping to her, instead just tipped herself and cried, mom came rushing over to comfort.  she knows what shes doing!

Narcie actually has a filled udder!!!! I went to start milking and her teats are no good  one big, bulbos teat and two little limp teats :hair:

soooo....I rubbed some vicks on her udder to relieve some pressure and help break things up. I dont think she has mastitis, no temp and the udder isnt hot. but shes on penG already since i went way in to get the kids.

well baby is hungry.... :sleeping: LOL


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Narcissus Kidded! (Problem?)*

Hi again
just got back from feeding (she can now stand on her own and get herself up!) Narcie was standing off in the corner watching and grunting when baby makes a noise. I had left the door to the stall unlocked and another doe (due friday!) walked in to see of the food was any better over here (which, it is actually). and Narcie stood there, she usually fights the other doe to back out of her pen. I thought this was odd, so I took her temp and its 104.9F !?! A little panicked i suppose, thats too high.

Shes already on penG because I almost went in to my elbow. so 4cc or penG everyday for 5 days already. but shes only one her second day....shes still passing afterbirth and looks a little uncomfortable. :worried:


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## AlaskaBoers

any thoughts please? 

I wont be able to do anything until 2pm when I get back from School. but I'm giving penG now.


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## toth boer goats

> Narcie actually has a filled udder!!!! I went to start milking and her teats are no good  one big, bulbos teat and two little limp teats :hair:


 Are you getting any milk out yet? If so....what does it look like?

If you can milk her out.... that would relieve pressure... Did you remove the plug from the end of the teats orifice...? Some take a while.. to get it out...and you have to work at it longer... Has the baby tried to suckle her.. at all.......
Get some and test for mastitis anyway.... because of her temp...

Congested Udder .... pops in my head to....



> shes still passing afterbirth and looks a little uncomfortable.


 Her afterbirth is still hanging out? with a retained placenta.... usually a small injection of oxytocin... within the normal timeframe... will get it lose.... some have used... Lutalyse.......if oxytocin doesn't do it..
Consult the vet to make sure... what should be used at this point...
This is a stupid question but.. did you make sure ...there were no more kids in there or a partially dissolved body? I know better , but I needed to ask...

If She has an infection inside..... a vet can possibly do a flush ...and clean out some of the yuck....



> her temp and its 104.9F !?! A little panicked i suppose, thats too high.


 It is high.... Doesn't sound like PenG... is doing anything for her... for high fevers and no appetite we use... Nuflor and Banimine together? Supplied by the vet....

At this point... it could be from ...the retain placenta ...or mastitis.... both can give a higher temp... As Milk fever ...does not give a doe a fever....

I would maybe talk to a vet.... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers

toth boer goats said:


> Are you getting any milk out yet? If so....what does it look like?
> 
> If you can milk her out.... that would relieve pressure... Did you remove the plug from the end of the teats orifice...? Some take a while.. to get it out...and you have to work at it longer... Has the baby tried to suckle her.. at all.......
> Get some and test for mastitis anyway.... because of her temp...
> 
> Congested Udder .... pops in my head to....


no milk yet, I've been tryng to milk but i'm getting nada. I rubbed tea tree oil on her udder hoping it will de-congest. The baby hasnt tried nursing at all, just the bottle unfortunetly. When milk starts coming i'll make sure to notice what characteristics it has.



toth boer goats said:


> Her afterbirth is still hanging out? with a retained placenta.... usually a small injection of oxytocin... within the normal timeframe... will get it lose.... some have used... Lutalyse.......if oxytocin doesn't do it..
> Consult the vet to make sure... what should be used at this point...
> This is a stupid question but.. did you make sure ...there were no more kids in there or a partially dissolved body? I know better , but I needed to ask...
> 
> If She has an infection inside..... a vet can possibly do a flush ...and clean out some of the yuck....


no, she passed her afterbirth shortly after kidding, but she squats constantly to pee, and "goop" (for lack of better term ) strings out a bit. I did go inside after both kids were born and felt around to make sure no kids were left, and I didnt feel anything, also tried bouncing her and nothing. Other does i've had have had discharge for about a week after kidding.

I took her temp when I got home and it was 102.1F

Baby is still doing great, shes taken steps but one back leg is still a bit wobbly

I'll call a vet as soon as i can and ask what may be going on, I need to buy some banamine and oxytocin, seems I could have used oxy with the pig and goats now, :roll:

:hug: thank you!


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## toth boer goats

Your welcome Katrina.... :hug: 

wow...that is unusual....no milk ...not even a hint still.... :scratch: 

That is good she passed her afterbirth.... and her temp.. is normal....... that is a plus....maybe the PenG is starting to work.... keep an eye on it for a while... 

Some clean out... for about 2 weeks... so she seems OK there....

Glad baby is doing good....it will take some time...but she should improve more and more each day.... :hug: 

Seems kinda odd ...your doe had a temp like that....and now is OK....and has no hint of milk.... onder: asking a vet for there opinion....... is good to do....... just in case..... 

banamine and oxytocin... is good to have on hand .... :thumbup: 

I am praying all ....will be OK... ray:


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## Idahodreamer

Congrats on babies!  Wish I could have some idea that might help with the problems.


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## AlaskaBoers

splinted the kids legs and shes getting around good now, actually trying to nurse. I'm still massaging the udder and rubbing tea tree oil on it. her temp is still 102.1 and she laying aroung caring for the kid and eating her grain and hay good.  its coming together.

meanwhile Rose looks like she'll have trips any day!


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## toth boer goats

I am glad you splinted her legs it will help her.... as you said she is getting around better it helps to strengthen her muscles and shortens the tendon back where it belongs...

It is so sweet of Narcissus ...trying so hard to be a good momma ....hope she gets her milk in soon.... ray: :hug: 

Keep up the good work Katrina......I am rooting for the little family.... :hug: :thumb: 

Happy kidding for Rose.... hope everything goes smooth.... :kidred: :kidred: :kidred:


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## bheila

:stars: So glad to hear that they are both improving :stars:


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## AlaskaBoers

pssh. babies is still doing awesome!!!  

otherhand, I notice Narcie is getting bottle jaw?! it happend overnight as the fluid drained. I just wormed her a month ago and she seems fine, her lids are dark, temp is normal, and acting more comfortable, but the lump on her neck...eww. so I dosed her today with ivomec and I'll do this every 11 days (jack mauldin) and I'm going to keep giving penG along with Vitamin b-12. 


ughhh......


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## toth boer goats

Happy the little one is still doing well.....  .... Keep up the good work... :hug:


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