# CAE Elisa test Positive



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

SO I'm Testing my herd for CAE. IF this test was to come back positive what would you do I realize its an antibody test which means the goat has only been exposed. none of my goats a showing signs of CAE so would that just make them a carrier? What if One of my girls who is a twin comes back + but not her twin what does that mean I'm just wondering so I can be prepared for the results thanks for any input


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

IMO: if the test is Positive..with no symptoms..I would retest in 6 months before rushing to a decision...also talk the results over with your vet...: )


----------



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Wouldn't they still be positive they are 2 years old and have never left the farm so I wouldn't expect a recent exposure


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I agree I would retest. If you haven't already tested, now or before, it's only a little more to also test for CL and Johne's. If the kids are under 6 mos I'd wait on them. Again, retest before decisions are made. You can if you have a positive goat raise them on the prevention method. IE- if a positive doe comes back be there at birth and don't let them nurse off mom. For me personally I would probably not keep a positive animal.


----------



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

and what about the twin issue. And if one was due to kid before the 6 months is up would you do cae preventive measures


----------



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

what are the chances of a false positive


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

If they are twins and one tests positive and the other doesn't, I'd still retest. I know someone who had that scenario and a year later and another test somehow the one was still + and the other still -. The six month, is more for new kids. So if you are testing everyone before that you'd know if you should do preventive measures. If you suspect it for any reason, you may still want to do that, it's just a personal decision.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree ....I would not keep a positive goat...I have a friend who does...its all about what risks you are willing to take and precautions you are will to do..It can works with diligence. As for False Positives...it could happen. That is why I suggest a retest...you can retest sooner...its always been suggested waiting 6 months mostly for kid goats... I would pull her kids at birth any way because if her second test came back Negative I would still want a retest to confirm since the first was positive. ...you don't want them on her if you don't have clear assurance she is Negative..good luck I know its scary and frustrating..


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My girls tested negative for 2 years in a row. Then the third time I had them tested, they came back positive and the ELISA test was used every time. I sent blood to another lab and they came back negative. So if you get a postive test, then I would send it to another lab and have blood tested again. These were also older girls that were 7 & 8 years old at the time.


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> My girls tested negative for 2 years in a row. Then the third time I had them tested, they came back positive and the ELISA test was used every time. I sent blood to another lab and they came back negative. So if you get a postive test, then I would send it to another lab and have blood tested again. These were also older girls that were 7 & 8 years old at the time.


As I was reading this thread, I had wondered if anyone had taken the ELISA test and had it come back positive only to be negative. You answered my question.

I wonder how often it happens that people get false positives? and what would cause that? In my head I was using the Logic of a pregnancy test.. they say you can get false negatives, but if a positive comes back then well..it's positive. from hearing and reading that people can get false negatives from CAE testings, made me think that if a test was positive, then the antibodies of the disease were present in the animal.

The whole CAE thing sounds very confusing and seems very deceptive to whether the goat actually has the disease or not, unless of course the clinical signs are there. 

Based on your experience, what is your take on that?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think as in any test, you can get false negatives and positives. So many things can happen at the lab. Your sample can be contaminated depending on how you handled it.

Since getting my postive test for CAE, I now only use WADDL for testing and feel very confident in their testing results.


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I think as in any test, you can get false negatives and positives. So many things can happen at the lab. Your sample can be contaminated depending on how you handled it.
> 
> Since getting my postive test for CAE, I now only use WADDL for testing and feel very confident in their testing results.


 I've seen others using WADDL as well. Is there something different that they do that individual State Labs don't? what was the confidence builder for you?


----------



## LittleGoatGal (Jan 9, 2013)

What is ELISA?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

WADDL does use an ELISA test but it is the cELISA. The vets in my area use them and everyone I talk to uses them. My confidence comes mostly from the fact that the vets have used them for years and don't send blood samples in to the state lab for CAE.

The other thing is that I usually have my goats tested for CL and WADDL is one of the few places that I know of that tests CL using blood so I have both tests done at the same time. My state lab only tests pus for CL.

ELISA - Enzyme-Linked ImmunoSorbent Assay - a CAE test


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I dont know if Molly from fiasco farms has changed her stand of CAE testing..but for this very reason she does not test...the tests are not as reliable as people think..this is why for me a positive is only a positive if the goat either tested 3 times positive or has symptoms already...never go by the first test...


----------



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Thats good to know about WADDL I want to do CL and Johnnes testiing as well I think I'll be sending the Test to WADDL in the future


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I dont know if Molly from fiasco farms has changed her stand of CAE testing..but for this very reason she does not test...the tests are not as reliable as people think..this is why for me a positive is only a positive if the goat either tested 3 times positive or has symptoms already...never go by the first test...


the last time I read her blog,which was today, she stated that they didn't test. (don't know how often she updates) And said CAE testing was controversial subject between people who raised goats. I can see why. It's VERY deceptive and confusing. What I'd like to know is how people who claim to practice CAE prevention, can catch every single kid born before it nurses the mother? not booing on it, just curious.


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

Cayennepepper said:


> Thats good to know about WADDL I want to do CL and Johnnes testiing as well I think I'll be sending the Test to WADDL in the future


Yes, was VERY good information.

Thank you Ksalvagno


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Molly from Fias Co Farm hasn't owned goats for a while now (at least that is my understanding). A lot of her info is timeless but without owning goats, it is hard to keep up to date on things.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow...That I did not know about Molly not owning goats any longer..Im surprised since she seemed to love her lamanchas...

catz1611: there will always be those who cheat the system so to speak...when dealing with anyone I would always encourage getting references..talk with others who has dealings with the person you are thinking about working with...there are so many truthful honest folks. I have a friend right now raising CAE positive does. she paid $500 plus for them each! as bottle babies...they come from top notch show gals..only to end up having cae..the girl provided a certificate of cae negative report for them but my friend has her goats retested to give herself satisfaction...all were not only cae positive but a few cl positive as well..but with a negative report in hand the breeder refused to make good on it..sad but true..there is a chance she pooled blood from a known negative doe...now my friend is doing the CAE preventive with the kids trying to get CAE neg herd again...A reputable breeder prides them self on a clean well cared for disease free herd..and are more concerned about a good positive reputation then a few extra dollars..so ask around..Im sure the reputable breeders far out number the cheaters : )


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

happybleats said:


> wow...That I did not know about Molly not owning goats any longer..Im surprised since she seemed to love her lamanchas...
> 
> catz1611: there will always be those who cheat the system so to speak...when dealing with anyone I would always encourage getting references..talk with others who has dealings with the person you are thinking about working with...there are so many truthful honest folks. I have a friend right now raising CAE positive does. she paid $500 plus for them each! as bottle babies...they come from top notch show gals..only to end up having cae..the girl provided a certificate of cae negative report for them but my friend has her goats retested to give herself satisfaction...all were not only cae positive but a few cl positive as well..but with a negative report in hand the breeder refused to make good on it..sad but true..there is a chance she pooled blood from a known negative doe...now my friend is doing the CAE preventive with the kids trying to get CAE neg herd again...A reputable breeder prides them self on a clean well cared for disease free herd..and are more concerned about a good positive reputation then a few extra dollars..so ask around..Im sure the reputable breeders far out number the cheaters : )


 OH WOW!!  that much money for those does only to end up with a Positive testing AND CL??? how heartbreaking for your friend.  But since you mentioned that part about the CAE, molly on her blog did say (_I cut and pasted_):

Even with tests, and practicing CAE prevention (pulling kids, separating CAE positive animals, etc.), there is no way of guaranteeing that a herd is totally "free" of CAE. You can only know if a herd has recently tested negative to the antibodies. Goats have been known to be raised in a totally "free" herd for many years and all of a sudden, as many as seven years later, "revert". Any goat can "revert" at any time.

I know there is absolutely no way to tell..but I wonder if that happened with your friends goats? Or if the breeder just didn't catch them at birth or had false negative results herself.not trying to give the breeder an out .. however your friends situation sort of illustrates the point..what a stinky situation though, for everyone involved. Do your friends Does show any clinical signs of CAE? they could just have been exposed yet resistant to the actual disease itself? (_this whole subject is highly interesting to me..as you can tell. LOL_)

I have a feeling CAE is one of those things where if the goat exhibits the clinical signs, then and only then can a person can say with certainty that it's positive..

Unfortunately I have heard the stories of dishonestly in the goat industry but thankfully, I've only run across the honest folks.  so, I'm inclined to agree with you about the good folks out numbering the bad.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes...I agree.lol...I too have only met the good guys : )


----------



## Jane (Apr 17, 2011)

Catz1611 said:


> the last time I read her blog,which was today, she stated that they didn't test. (don't know how often she updates) And said CAE testing was controversial subject between people who raised goats. I can see why. It's VERY deceptive and confusing. What I'd like to know is how people who claim to practice CAE prevention, can catch every single kid born before it nurses the mother? not booing on it, just curious.


It's called sleep deprivation and having no life. 
That is me every kidding season, as I have had several CAE positive does in my herd and I want it gone!


----------



## Cayennepepper (Feb 1, 2013)

Jane said:


> It's called sleep deprivation and having no life.
> That is me every kidding season, as I have had several CAE positive does in my herd and I want it gone!


So how do you sell the kids from the cae positive does? do you just say you use preventive measures or do you tell people that the does are positive just curios what people do since it seems that the chances are low for the kids if you raise them


----------



## Catz1611 (Feb 14, 2013)

Cayennepepper said:


> So how do you sell the kids from the cae positive does? do you just say you use preventive measures or do you tell people that the does are positive just curios what people do since it seems that the chances are low for the kids if you raise them


 Or do you wait and test them after 6 months before selling or do you sell at all?


----------

