# promoting milk production



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

I need help!

I have been raising goats for 3 years now and I feel that I have a good grasp on most everything, except when it comes to my dairy. 

I am having a hard (very hard) time getting consistent good milk production from does that SHOULD be giving me such.

I have 3 does in milk with kids, that I milk in the morning (kids pulled from 8pm-6am) only and return them to their kids after. 

Doe #1-Third Freshener Alpine with twins, giving me 3/4 quart in morning (I have been milking her for 3 weeks)
Doe #2-First FreshenerF Nubian with single, giving little over 1/2 quart in morning (milking 3 weeks)
Doe #3-2nd Freshener Nubian with twins giving littler over 1/2 quart in morning (milking 2 weeks)

*They have been off pasture for a week due to rain and they all went from a full quart each down to the above amounts.

I am feeding the following...
AM feed to each doe
3 cups oats/barley soaked over night with water and ACV
Sprinkle of BOSS
handful of Alfalfa
Kelp
PM feed
same as above

I just bought shredded beet pulp, but when I added it my son said the milk tasted funny? So I stopped until I can test it on a doe to see if that was indeed the cause.

I found out recently they all have a mineral problem when I gave them their weekly minerals and they literally FOUGHT over it! I usually only give new minerals weekly (and before had to toss the old) , now I am giving 3 times a week until they are better in this area. (I use Hoegger minerals)

I am also beginning to put some ACV in their water 3 times a week since this makes them drink double the water they normally do and I was told water is key to good milk production. 

I do not copper bolus (my vet advises against it, she says too many goats have copper toxicity) although I am torn on this.The copper content in the minerals I use is high, but I am aware the copper bolus is a different type of copper. 

They get 2nd cut hay in the milk stand and 1st cut 3 times a day when off of pasture. When they are on pasture they get hay only in the morning and bed time. 

They are all wormed weekly with Molly's Herbals, however I do and will chemical worm whenever necessary. 

They are not in the best condition,(they are not in poor condition, just not at their pre-pregnancy best) but they did just kid 5weeks ago so I am putting this to dairy support. A little boney in the back and hips. 

I am not sure what else to do or to tweak. I WISH so much there was a sight that helped with feed. I have read books, studied sites and talked to locals but I get different answers each time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My LaManchas get 8 cups of grain per milking. At your point in lactation, that would be 8 cups twice a day. They need more feed.


----------



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> My LaManchas get 8 cups of grain per milking. At your point in lactation, that would be 8 cups twice a day. They need more feed.


Really? Wow I am way off!

thanks so much for your input, I will slowly add until it is up to 8 cups.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Every goat is different so you can always see if 6 cups or whatever will do it but they need feed to put milk in the pail.


----------



## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Is the hay alfalfa or grass? Goats need alfalfa for high milk production.

They sounds like they have a very low protein content feed. Oats and barley are only about 11% protein-it's best to have a grain with 16% protein. And yes, a lot more than three cups.


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

Yes, I feed 6 cups Nutrena 17% plus BOSS, a bit of calf Manna and a bit of cob to my NDs and get the same amount of milk you described from my minis.


----------



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Good for you for soaking your grains! I've always wanted to, but have not gotten that organized yet. 

If you don't want to use processed goat feed, here is a grain mix that goathiker posted on here before. It would have higher protein than what you are feeding. I believe she mixes one part of the grain mix with 2 parts alfalfa pellets. She also said to introduce the split peas slowly and carefully, as some goats will not tolerate a large amount of them. 

200 lbs whole oats
100 lbs rolled barley
50 lbs Animax (Calf Manna)
40 lbs Boss
10 lbs split peas

Even just increasing the amount of alfalfa pellets should help you out some, if you are feeding grass hay and not alfalfa hay. My single milker costs the same amount to feed as my 4 dry yearlings combined; they eat a lot!


----------



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

I was reading up on Alfalfa pellets yesterday as well. I feed a grass hay so I decided to offer the pellets free choice. here's why...

I put a sprinkle of alfalfa pellets on my goats feed and they eat around it.
I put a dish of alfalfa pellets in the barn with the gals and they fight over it, go figure! I read yesterday that you need to feed a cup of alfalfa pellets per cup of grain, still need to research this one more. 

Does anyone feed beet pulp shreds? I am experimenting with them now as well.

I have never tried calf mana since it is incredibly expensive.

What is the benefits of split pea? I may look into this as well.



I really REALLY appreciate all the feed back!


----------



## jaimn (May 16, 2015)

smilesx4 said:


> I was reading up on Alfalfa pellets yesterday as well. I feed a grass hay so I decided to offer the pellets free choice. here's why...
> 
> I put a sprinkle of alfalfa pellets on my goats feed and they eat around it.
> I put a dish of alfalfa pellets in the barn with the gals and they fight over it, go figure! I read yesterday that you need to feed a cup of alfalfa pellets per cup of grain, still need to research this one more.
> ...


The folks on here are great!! 

I mix alfalfa pellets, BOSS, goat chow, and all purpose grain together. I started adding beet pulp for my dairy girl, but just have one grain bin for all the goats, so all the mamas get the same grain. At first I added the beet pulp pellets dry, but the girls had a hard time getting through their grain. A friend said to soak the pellets; it is helpful to add water on hot days, and I found it also helps the girls eat better. Now I have a problem with a spoiled Oberhasli that will eat half of it, then won't eat unless I hand feed her (that took me two feedings to figure out!!). I started adding water to all the grain, plus the already-soaked beet pellets. It seems to me that sprinkling down the grain helps digestion. I let the girls eat all they can, and if they finish it I will add more until they are satisfied. 
I think of goathiker's mix after I've already purchased the other grain. I need to get the horse before the cart. It seems like it would be easy to take a cup of split peas to the barn to throw in some per feeding to get them used to it..... I've just got to remember to take it out there...!!


----------



## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Alfalfa for me has been the big milk producer. When my girls were on pasture they didn't produce worth a darn, but add in a good dose of alfalfa and the milk bucket went from half full to overflowing. Up the alfalfa a LOT for a week and see if you get more milk, my bet is you will. Now I give alfalfa hay morning and night all year.


----------



## ColleenMT (Dec 8, 2014)

I was just about ready to throw in the towel on my ND girls for lack of production. I had nailed down a couple of Nubians thinking I needed bigger goats. The gal I got my girls from said they were producing a quart per milking. Lately, I've been lucky to get a third of a quart which isn't even worth going out to milk. I asked the Nubian lady about what she feeds and she recommended alfalfa. I have always fed my goats grass hay free choice and 16% protein goat feed to my milkers on the milk stand. I am going to hold off on changing my goat breed for now. I just changed out my grass hay for 50/50 alfalfa grass and put out alfalfa pellets for them to munch on. I am hoping this will work. My milk has just gone down hill since I got my goats...It must be something I am doing. Maybe someday I will figure this all out!


----------



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

smilesx4 said:


> I was reading up on Alfalfa pellets yesterday as well. I feed a grass hay so I decided to offer the pellets free choice. here's why...
> 
> I put a sprinkle of alfalfa pellets on my goats feed and they eat around it.
> I put a dish of alfalfa pellets in the barn with the gals and they fight over it, go figure! I read yesterday that you need to feed a cup of alfalfa pellets per cup of grain, still need to research this one more.
> ...


Split peas will up the protein content. I'm guessing if they are soaked with the other grain, they will also become even more digestible.

Your goats eat around the pellets because they like the grain better  Mine do the same sometimes. You can offer them in 2 separate bowls if you like; first the grain, then the pellets. I used to do that with a particularly picky goat. She gobbled up both that way!

But if they are getting alfalfa pellets free choice, then no need for them on the stand. Free choice might get expensive though, and less dominant goats might not get their share. I think you do need to work up to free choice alfalfa pellets, like any other feed change.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

What brand are the alfalfa pellets? Reason I ask is because mine will not touch Standlee alfalfa pellets, they will only eat the Haystack brand..., however I have switched back to Chaffhaye a few weeks ago, and noticed a production improvement... I also would up their feed.... I also used the grain recipe above...


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The peas are high protein, they also contain iron, vitamin C, vitamin D, and starch based carbs that help prevent Ketosis. 

The price of Animax evens out a bit as by mixing it this way you get 720 lbs of grain mix out of one bag. At the prices I pay for the grain and and hour of time to mix it into steel garbage cans, I pay $10.06 per bag for the mix.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Curious question Jill, can you use whole barely instead of rolled?


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You could with a younger herd than mine. It's harder to chew for my elderlies.


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I think I like that recipe better than another I saw online. I'm going to take the plunge and make my own.


----------



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

CrazyDogLady said:


> I think I like that recipe better than another I saw online. I'm going to take the plunge and make my own.


My goats will not eat the dairy mill mixed grain that is covered in molasses, this surprised me since my gals love molasses. I also like mixing because I can tweak here and there depending on what each doe needs.

Janeen, I am not sure I will have to check. That is a good point! My alpine loves them but my nubians will not eat them. I think I am going to do what lilaalil suggested and use two bowls on the stand to see if that helps.

silly question, are you getting the peas from the feed mill? I think I will wait before adding any split peas. Let me gals get adjusted.

thanks again everyone!!!


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree that they need way more feed...and I would copper bolus.


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I did try the beet shreds with my goats, and they were not a hit. Evidently they would rather starve than eat beets. They didn't eat one mouthful of their grain when I mixed in beet shreds. My husband, another beet hater, laughed at me and said he understood.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I have to soak beet pulp pellets, then they go nuts...


----------



## ColleenMT (Dec 8, 2014)

Well, the alfalfa pellets were not a fav with my girls. I did a cup of alfalfa pellets for each cup of 17% protein goat feed and she just ate around the pellets. I even tried only giving her the pellets this morning while I milked and she wanted nothing to do with it. But, the alfalfa hay has been a big hit and I can already see a difference in my milkers' weight and the production is going up everyday!!! I can also see a difference in the butterfat content! YAY!!!! I'm going to try to feed a smaller amount of alfalfa pellets with the girls all together and see if the competition encourages them to eat them. Otherwise, I know the horses will! Thanks so much for the help!!! I can't believe it took me this long to figure this out! UGH!


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

You need more alfalfa in their diet for the calcium they are losing in the milk.

More grain. Way more grain (raised slowly)

grass and browse will produce more milk than hay because of the moisture content. 

I feed beet pulp. I have used both the shreds and the pellets, always soaked. I have never noticed a change in the taste of their milk when I start feeding it in the fall. I have, however, kept feeding it now to full time/year round. BP is not a great source of protein for production, but it is a great source of calories to help maintain condition.

Copper boluses (copper rods) are absorbed very slowly in the stomach and almost never causes a toxic buildup. Copper sulfate is the main cause of copper toxicity as it goes right into the system. Most Vets know very little about nutrition. They only get about a weeks worth of nutrition study during their entire schooling. They barely touch on the subject.


----------



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

lottsagoats1 said:


> You need more alfalfa in their diet for the calcium they are losing in the milk.
> 
> More grain. Way more grain (raised slowly)
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your extremely informative post! I am so glad you cleared up my confusion on bolusing. I have never done it, but will give it a try this weekend. I have the pills and the bolusing thingy and I am nervous since I have never seen it done! How far do I put the gun down their throat? It is so long! 

I took someones advice this morning and put the alfalfa pellets in a bowl next to their grain on the milk stand and two ignored them, but the other two moms chowed down! So I will continue that.

I am up to 4 cups of grain now and already have seen an increase in milk. Thanks so much to everyone that helped me with this, I just love this forum and I am so appreciative of all the help I have gotten here!

I am glad you have not noticed a taste change with the pulp and the benefits. I have a couple of goats that need some help in the conditioning area.


----------



## jaimn (May 16, 2015)

For copper boluses, I make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They get fold-overs with the copper inside (well mixed into pb). No fights just adoration for treats. However, I do have some goats that won't eat pb&j so I have to get creative with flavors, like add more jelly or use flour instead of bread.


----------



## smilesx4 (Jan 9, 2014)

jaimn said:


> For copper boluses, I make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They get fold-overs with the copper inside (well mixed into pb). No fights just adoration for treats. However, I do have some goats that won't eat pb&j so I have to get creative with flavors, like add more jelly or use flour instead of bread.


This is interesting. I was told by many that you must bolus and get the capsule in their stomach in order for it to work correctly. That if they "eat" it you will not get the same results.

Then later I talked to a vet and they confirmed what you said. Just put it in banana and let them eat it. Or put it in liquid and drench them.

I am still not sure what is the correct answer, but I would rather do it your way, less stress on me!!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is fine to do it that way.


----------

