# Raising my first wethers with horns



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm actually going to keep this thread as a "journal" of sorts. This year I've left the horn buds intact on my two (soon to be) wethers. I wanted to experience raising horned goats for myself, so I can form a well-rounded opinion on the subject. Due to show restrictions, I will probably always disbud my bucks and does, but since the wethers cannot be registered by the ADGA, I want to see if I can keep them with their horns intact.

These boys are for sale as pets, but I do expect to harvest them as pet homes for wethers can be challenging to find. 

Right now Stormy just has adorable little pokey things sticking up out of his fuzz, haha! You probably can't see them in the picture. Pinocchio is a week younger so his have not broken the skin yet. 

Right now I'm concentrating on manners. Teaching them to be mindful of where their heads are, and to ask for attention politely.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

He sure is cute!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

cutie! I love when the horns start poking out. it's sooo cute!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

They're poking out of the fuzz now! Oh so cute. I think Stormy was especially a good pick for my first horned kid, since he's such a sweetie. He's boss kid, but really he's quite well behaved. 

Probably a coincidence, but when we had a hot day he was the most comfortable, even though he's one of the fattest and darkest kids. I didn't know if that was due to his little horns or not, but I did find it interesting. Sister of the same size was hotter than he was, but lighter colored.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Horns are adorable when they start out


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm guessing you've read The Pack Goat.
You should see some of the beautiful pictures!
Personally I love the different horns. 
Lucky I was told when mine were babies to NEVER play with babies' horns. My big wethers are very gentle with me. The only danger is when they are arguing together and I'm too close to them.

I read that the horns are so important if a goat is to be in the desert or a working goat because the horns help to circulate blood and when overheated you can cool them off quickly by using a wet cool rag wrapped around the base of the horns. I tried it on a panting goat and it worked like air conditioning. She was grateful.

The book also explains a lot about color and environment.

Getting rid of horns is for human convenience.
:cart:


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Suntoo, you are correct about the horns. The first year I had goats I had purchased quite a few that had been previously disbudded, but most of them still had their horns. That summer we hit temps of 110 degrees and higher. I noticed that the disbudded does were laying in the shade with their mouths hanging open and panting, while the horned does were actually laying in the sun - no open mouths, no panting.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I've raised horned goats before, and the key is to always be aware of them. Don't put your face close to theirs, watch your hands when leading them, and don't turn your back if it's a grumpy goat! 
Most goats don't mean to hurt people, but it happens when they try to do simple things like scratch themselves and fight the collar. And you have to keep them in line, because horned goats know they have potential weapons and might wanna test them on you!
I love the look of horns, but not the risk that comes with them....
Good luck, don't get gouged!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

canyontrailgoats said:


> And you have to keep them in line, because horned goats know they have potential weapons and might wanna test them on you!


Wow! You really have been around some renegade goats, haven't you? With very few exceptions - even then only when she had newborn kids - my girls have never even offered to "test their horns" on me. Nor do I have to "keep them in line". Ok, just a bit when there is a grain bucket involved. Might I suggest trading in your goats for a calmer, tamer breed?


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

Recently, I got the idea that I know why hikers with goats carry long walking sticks...
(no....not to smack the goat)
but I noticed when I'm outside with a rake that my wethers like to help me,
:GAAH:

and I can use that long handle to simply turn their horned heads away from me!
It works so well that they don't even know anything significant just happened. LOL Keeps peace in my tiny paradise.
:rose:


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

MsScamp said:


> Wow! You really have been around some renegade goats, haven't you? With very few exceptions - even then only when she had newborn kids - my girls have never even offered to "test their horns" on me. Nor do I have to "keep them in line". Ok, just a bit when there is a grain bucket involved. Might I suggest trading in your goats for a calmer, tamer breed?


That's exactly why I sold them lol! Of course MOST horned goats are very respectful and gentle, but there are a few of the dreaded "testers" out there .
I guess I've been unlucky in that aspect...


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't blame you, and I hope I never meet any of the "testers".


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

We've always had horned goats. The only issues I've ever had was a goat getting stuck in the fencing, which we took care of immediately, and when two of them were playing, one caught the others collar and they were stuck together until I crossed the room and took care of them. New, safer collars took care of that issue. We've never had a goat try to use their horns or their heads against us. Ever. We never grab a goat's horns or draw any attention to them. I do not allow children to visit the goats without an adult present, just in case...their faces are lower than ours and accidents are always possible. Oh yeah, and I have had my wrist in the way when a goat was turning her head and got my arm twisted a little bit. It smarted but there was no damage done. Just be aware of their horns and enjoy their natural beauty. I always feel good knowing they have them to defend themselves if a strange dog or coyote should approach them. 

With that being said, if I had to do it over again, I might consider purchasing goats without horns just because I'd have a few less things to worry about. All the "what ifs" and possibilities can wear on ya, you know. But then again, the disbudding process bothers me. Not that any of you are wrong for doing it, I'm just a mush ball who can't take the thought of it very well. 

Now that I've probably confused you....lol! 

I will be interested to hear how you feel about this experience. I like how you are open to trying it both ways. High five.  (Our grandkids do that, so I thought it would fit here. hahaha.)


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ours are all horned, and we actually like to touch them every once in a while. and even though we touch ours (and sometimes use them to move a stubborn goat), they have never used their horns against me. the only time I've gotten hurt was when I was in the way of their head butting each other. maybe I just have nice goats?

I love when the horns are just peeping out of their heads. it's absolutely adorable! (and yes, we've played with them at this stage too).


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Suntoo said:


> I'm guessing you've read The Pack Goat.
> You should see some of the beautiful pictures!
> Personally I love the different horns.
> Lucky I was told when mine were babies to NEVER play with babies' horns. My big wethers are very gentle with me. The only danger is when they are arguing together and I'm too close to them.
> ...


I actually haven't read "The Pack Goat"; I wanted to try this because disbudding is quite hard for me to go through (even though I have someone else do it for me!) and I want to be absolutely sure I'm making the right decision for them, and for our farm.

Yep, no playing even with the heads of disbudded goats here! Don't want a butting problem. Is it okay to scratch in-between his horns? He seems to like that, and he doesn't rub me for it.

Love the hint about the cool washcloth. Thanks! Yes, everyone around me has pointed out their goats to so much better in the winter than in the summer, and I had to wonder if it was related to the lack of horns.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks all for the support and answers! I may end up never doing this again, or I may end up preferring it. We'll have to see, but I wanted to give it a good shot.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

OH! i forgot to add, and remember when i was with my goats. they LOVE getting scratched on their head right where the horns come out. i think i can sit there all day scratching at my wether's horn base.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Danielle , look how our two boys look so much alike !


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im so excited to hear what you decide about the horns 
With our conversation about it a couple of days ago , I was so happy to see your thread here


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh, and i want to clarify, when i say "play" i mean we touch and pet. we don't instigate fights with them (that's a no-no). and stop if they get too pushy with wanting a head scratch.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok,maybe I'm the oddball here..........I DO use my bucks horns to move him. It works the best and gives us more control. He is not an "in your face" goat so we have to catch him when we need to.
I also DO use my wethers horns to move him. He is friendly but when he knows you want to do something with him, he is 200 lbs of "no way!". Using his horns gives us control, and he forgives us as soon as he gets his treat 
That said, I do NOT use my Saanens horns to get her moving. This does not work for her since she will start immediately flinging her head around and then you could get poked. For her a collar and leash work better.
For me, it's individual what works.


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## Bambi (Jun 10, 2012)

We have always raised our goats with the horns on. Our goats are working goats and the horns do help them stay cooler. I always tell people, with horns comes responsibility and you have to be careful around them. I think you will like your wethers with the horns and goats are very curious and love to help do things.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> he is 200 lbs of "no way!"
> 
> :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Trickyroo said:


> Danielle , look how our two boys look so much alike !


They look almost identical! Which kid is that? One of Baby's?



Trickyroo said:


> Im so excited to hear what you decide about the horns
> With our conversation about it a couple of days ago , I was so happy to see your thread here


Thanks! Wanted to give it a good try for myself, and thought it may be interesting to document the ups and downs along the way.



Bambi said:


> We have always raised our goats with the horns on. Our goats are working goats and the horns do help them stay cooler. I always tell people, with horns comes responsibility and you have to be careful around them. I think you will like your wethers with the horns and goats are very curious and love to help do things.


I do love the look. The biggest thing I had to get over was the fear of trying it, but if I didn't try it I would regret it. So far they've only needed a very few corrections for rubbing/butting me (like all the kids do) when I'm not paying attention to them. They're doing really great. Stormy loves the base of his horns scratched, but Pinocchio doesn't like being pet on the head. They're all so unique!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your right  That is Baby's buckling .


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

He is handsome!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

ThreeHavens said:


> Yep, no playing even with the heads of disbudded goats here! Don't want a butting problem. Is it okay to scratch in-between his horns? He seems to like that, and he doesn't rub me for it.


Ok, rubbing their heads must depend on the breed, because I have always rubbed, petted, and scratched my girls heads. I've never had a problem as a result of it. I also regularly scratch between their horns. Most of my girls will walk up to me and kind of 'bow' their heads to ask if I would please scratch between their horns. It's soooo cute!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I would never rub on a buck's head, they almost always take it the wrong way and try to "play" with you or get mean and try to boss you around.
Of course it depends on the individual buck, but it's best to just avoid the head area...
I see no problem scratching a doe's head, they are usually gentle. And if they get a little rough, a quick smack on the nose should deter them.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

canyontrailgoats, I think it really depends on the buck's disposition. we have a wether, and he loves having his head scratched. he does the head bow thing and begs for it. our rent-a-buck also loved having his head scratched. but he was SUPER gentle. he never posed any problems with us, and actually was the bottom of the totem pole while he was here. he was dishorned though


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I have both horned and no horns here, and I haven't had any problems whatsoever, they all get scratches, pets etc. I also have a buck with horns and I have never had a problem with him. Unfortunately his are growing into the back of his neck, so I will try to band them first if not then I will take him in to have him dehorned... So sad though, I wish the people I bought him from didn't try to disbud him, he would have been just fine, he has the best temperament.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

nchen7 said:


> canyontrailgoats, I think it really depends on the buck's disposition. we have a wether, and he loves having his head scratched. he does the head bow thing and begs for it. our rent-a-buck also loved having his head scratched. but he was SUPER gentle. he never posed any problems with us, and actually was the bottom of the totem pole while he was here. he was dishorned though


Oh, of course nchen! That's why I stated earlier that it depends on the individual buck. I just wanted to make it clear that rubbing a buck's head COULD easily trigger bad behavior, especially if they are horned. I guess the only way to find out is to try and see how they react to being rubbed there...
Hopefully I cleared things up ....


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

janeen128 said:


> I have both horned and no horns here, and I haven't had any problems whatsoever, they all get scratches, pets etc. I also have a buck with horns and I have never had a problem with him. Unfortunately his are growing into the back of his neck, so I will try to band them first if not then I will take him in to have him dehorned... So sad though, I wish the people I bought him from didn't try to disbud him, he would have been just fine, he has the best temperament.


So you mix? That's encouraging!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Oh, of course nchen! That's why I stated earlier that it depends on the individual buck. I just wanted to make it clear that rubbing a buck's head COULD easily trigger bad behavior, especially if they are horned. I guess the only way to find out is to try and see how they react to being rubbed there...
> Hopefully I cleared things up ....


I think I used the wrong words to agree with you. :laugh:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

ThreeHavens said:


> So you mix? That's encouraging!


Yes. This years kid crop I did not disbud either. I actually have some that are polled though too. Yes, it works here... They get into scuffles here and there, but no one has ever tried to use them on me or my elderly mom... I have 1 young wether, will be going to his new home next weekend, he rubs my leg not hard until I bend down to give him his pets and scratches, he has little horns.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> Unfortunately his are growing into the back of his neck, so I will try to band them first if not then I will take him in to have him dehorned... So sad though, I wish the people I bought him from didn't try to disbud him, he would have been just fine, he has the best temperament.


I met a darling Toggenberg with a bad disbud job...it IS so awful! As he grows bigger so does the deformed horn. It curls into his neck and has needed cutting (that causes bleeding) and I think it's disgusting. Probably because he wasn't disbudded properly...
Knowing his owner, I know he has a bleak future.
Seeing how reasonable a goat can be if given some attention, disbudding just isn't for me.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

canyontrailgoats said:


> I would never rub on a buck's head, they almost always take it the wrong way and try to "play" with you or get mean and try to boss you around.


I don't rub on my bucks, period. The last thing I need is a 2-300 lb intact male with an overload of testosterone thinking I'm his buddy or a member of his harem! I'm not dumb enough to think that is a fight I can win, and I don't run or climb nearly as well as I used to. :laugh:


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

I rubbed my buck before he was castrated and while he was in rut...
do you know he STILL looked at me like I'm his only mommy! (Bless his heart.) :angelgoat:

But I know it depends on the goat, and it depends on your relationship with him too.

Most times I don't think you should ever trust hormones!
I have Parrots too...you truly never know who you can trust in hormone season!
:crazy:


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## SMB_GoatHerd (Jan 22, 2014)

My new buck loves scratched and petted. And he knows when he wants it. He doesn't mind his face petted, but hates around his horns touched. Friendly, nonetheless. All of my does are horned, and my buck too, but all of my kids are disbudded to go to fairs, and even my wether companion. I don't have a preference either way, but you really have to be careful when they're about two or three inches long and before they start to curl. My girls used them as defense weapons against me, until they curled and they're fine now...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I do "horn training" with my packers and any prospects that stay long enough to have long enough horns to do so. As we all know, nearly all goats have a favorite scratch or rub spot. I get them away from other goats, get them to a calm state and scratch their spot. As I am doing that, with my other hand, I rub, scratch and handle his horns. This way he associates the touching of his horns with the scratching of his favorite spot. I can handle Legions horns with no pulling of his head or aggressive response. He likes it now.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

That's a great idea. Stormy loves between his horns scratched so I just touch his horns now and then doing that. Pinocchio does not like them touched at all, so I'll do that, TDG.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Both boys have been doing really well. Just have to watch myself hugging them, lol! But they're both good boys, no problems to report yet.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:thumb: Just have to always watch the horns....I have an A.D.D. goat who is always flinging her head around...:lol:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Hahaha! Yes, I've read that. I don't let them stand on my lap anymore, I only let them up if they want to lay down and take a nap.  Cuties.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Glad to hear things are going well Danielle


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## Haviris (Oct 7, 2007)

I could definitely get behind any reason not to disbud! One of my least favorite things.

Although I'm curious, why can't you register them? I always registered my wethers, several went to 4H kids so they had to be dehorned. 

I like horns on some goats (bucks generally), I'm happy to have a breed now that horns are more the norm, but I plan to leave my buck's horns, and disbud my does. The only real pain I've dealt with is goats getting stuck in fences, never had one intentionally use their horns for evil, just one doe (1/2 pygmy 1/4 alpine and 1/4 nubian) that accidently bloodied a few lips because her horns happen to line up right with a child's face, never intentional but it did happen a few times.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Haviris said:


> I could definitely get behind any reason not to disbud! One of my least favorite things.
> 
> Although I'm curious, why can't you register them? I always registered my wethers, several went to 4H kids so they had to be dehorned.
> 
> I like horns on some goats (bucks generally), I'm happy to have a breed now that horns are more the norm, but I plan to leave my buck's horns, and disbud my does. The only real pain I've dealt with is goats getting stuck in fences, never had one intentionally use their horns for evil, just one doe (1/2 pygmy 1/4 alpine and 1/4 nubian) that accidently bloodied a few lips because her horns happen to line up right with a child's face, never intentional but it did happen a few times.


Do you register through the ADGA? You can't show wethers through the ADGA ... but I'm not sure if 4-H works through a different registry.

Good to know, thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Around here most kids just need a scrapie tag for 4H. If there are sanctioned dairy shows, it is through ADGA. All reqire disbudded dairy goats though. I think they don't have to be disbudder if it is an open meat market class for 4H. But you would have to find out for your area. You can register a goat with horns, just can't show with ADGA or AGS.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Gotcha. I wasn't sure how that worked, I haven't had any 4-H buyers yet.

I have to say that at the moment I'm very happy with how respectful they've been. I thought it would be a massive battle, but they're only as silly and persistent as any buckling or wether. :laugh: We had them banded a few nights ago.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im so interested in seeing how this turns out for you Danielle


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

So am I, Laura, haha!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Stormy's horns. He is six weeks old.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

At six weeks they grow that much ? Holy poo :-o


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Yes, ma'am! Of course he's always been a big boy. Pinocchio is 5 weeks and his are half that size, lol! One more thing I'm looking forward to is the state of the horns is supposed to be indicative of health and nutrition. I should be kind of able to tell if they need more copper, etc.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Pinocchio's the dark chocolate kid sleeping next to Xena, up front. You can kind of see his poking through.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

so darn cute!!!


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## rollinghillsfarm (Sep 21, 2012)

In my 2014 kids so far, the boys are naturally polled and the girls are getting horns. Go figure.

I also have both polled and horned goats and everyone lives together. Never any problems.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow , such a difference in horn growth ! Love that play gym you have D !


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

rollinghillsfarm said:


> In my 2014 kids so far, the boys are naturally polled and the girls are getting horns. Go figure.
> 
> I also have both polled and horned goats and everyone lives together. Never any problems.


Very glad to hear!



Trickyroo said:


> Wow , such a difference in horn growth ! Love that play gym you have D !


Yes, it is! All of Ginger's kids were smaller at birth, plus they were triplets instead of twins, and out of a first freshener instead of a third freshener. I think those are all factors.

My dad build that play gym. The kids LIVE on it.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I was admiring it when I was there to pick up my babies 
Your Dad did a wonderful job !


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## rollinghillsfarm (Sep 21, 2012)

I think with 4H it's considered a safety issue, all those kids around all those horns and some kids not as good at handling animals as others. I'm just askin', but why disbud does? I have a bunch of does with horns and they're the same as the bucks - fine together with the polled ones and no issues when I handle them. No issues milking, either, although I don't have milk goats; just one Spanish doe who always singles so I feel free to help myself. (I keep her because her babies are spectacular. She's ready to deliver now and I bred her to my very robust Cashmere buck - I can't wait to see what the kid looks like!)


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

rollinghillsfarm said:


> I think with 4H it's considered a safety issue, all those kids around all those horns and some kids not as good at handling animals as others. I'm just askin', but why disbud does? I have a bunch of does with horns and they're the same as the bucks - fine together with the polled ones and no issues when I handle them. No issues milking, either, although I don't have milk goats; just one Spanish doe who always singles so I feel free to help myself. (I keep her because her babies are spectacular. She's ready to deliver now and I bred her to my very robust Cashmere buck - I can't wait to see what the kid looks like!)


Most of my buyers register and show through ADGA - in order to be shown through ADGA, the does must be disbudded. So my registered/breeding quality doelings and bucklings will probably still be disbudded as those are the homes most readily available to them. Plus, even if I keep them and don't show them, someday something may happen and I may have to downsize my herd ... if that was to occur I'd want my registered stock to be able to find homes as easily as possible.

My wethers are marketed as pets, but it can be difficult to find them all homes. As such most of them stay here their whole lives and are harvested around 8 months to a year. That's why I want to keep them horned - I want their lives to be as easy and happy as possible.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Horns are dangerous to everyone. The goat in terms of getting its head stuck somewhere (fences/feeders). To other goats. A goat knows when it has horns and will use them on lesser ranked animals and even kids. This is not to say all goats will but it more likely to happen then not. People in general. Most goats would not use them on people. But a quick twist of the head, a spook or any number of reasons and you or a someone else could get a good poke. Then there is just the common stuff like not fitting into a head gate on a stanchion.

As for registration. The dont have to be dis budded to be registered. They do however have to be dis budded to show. If you cant show then there is really no reason to register that animal unless they are such a nice animal with a great pedigree that you can sell the kids. But in turn those kids have to be dis budded or you are not going to find the right kinda buyer for them.

So a few minutes of bad pain followed by a few hours to a day of lingering pain is well worth it to dis bud.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I definitely know the reasons to disbud - I don't want to have a debate about that on here, I just wanted to experience both sides since I know both sides have some very valid points.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Wasnt looking to debate, just throwing up gang signs... errr the cons  hehe


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Hahaha!


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

I prefer my goats to have horns. Only a few times has someone caught the bad side of a horn... in the face. The issue was with the young ones when their horns point straight up and are *sharp!* You just have to be mindful of their range of motion and keep control of the situation. The few times were my husband who is the least experience in handling the young ones. The older ones don't use theri horns on any human on purpose. I've caught a few close calls from only one goat who *insists* on being pet first and NOW. She gets pushed, water squirted, or ear pinched until she's more polite. My whole family has been injured more often by our dog's nails (which are trimmed and tidy)!

I DO have one rescued Nubian that's hornless and from sheer strength and determination she's now #2 in rank in a herd of 7. I attribute that to her being nearly 50% taller than everyone else LOL! The rest of my herd are pygmy or ND.


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## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

All my goats have horns. My buck is pretty pushy and it's easy for him to hurt me if I'm not careful. Not only are the horns pointy, but the front edges are sharp over the length of them. Him rubbing you with them on the shins really hurts. 

Once when he was a fairly young kid and before I knew better my three year old daughter was alone with him for a second in the barn and started crying. He didn't do any real damage thankfully. I thought he butted her and she really couldn't explain what he did at the time but sort of demonstrated a scraping injury on her thigh. After getting to know him a little better I know what he did: he gets really low and hooks his head up. This is not an accident, he is trying to snag you with the horn by throwing his head up. I've seen him do it to the other goats too. He rarely butts. I've learned that I just need to ignore him and everyone will be ok. And feed him first. 

When I keep him separate he gets very territorial. I was coming in his pasture a lot to build him a little rain hut, and he was up on his hind legs a lot and coming down and really ramming me. When he was with the does, he sort of fake-rams but never follows through. But being alone does weird hints to him and he was out for blood. I was hammering on the roof and had to whack him with the hammer to keep hi a way from me. It knocked him on the horn and that was enough for him to keep his distance. 

He was my first. I wish he was dis budded but he has good genetics and meat goats just aren't available without horns. The does are fairly harmless but occasionally hook also.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Yep, know there are pros and cons for sure! I did so much reading before trying it, my head spun, lol! Gladly ours are wethers, and minis. They're really sweet guys too, love them to bits.


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## Haviris (Oct 7, 2007)

ThreeHavens said:


> Do you register through the ADGA? You can't show wethers through the ADGA ... but I'm not sure if 4-H works through a different registry.
> 
> Good to know, thanks!


All were AGS, most (maybe all, can't remember for sure, I preferred AGS) were also ADGA, and some were also NDGA. I don't think the 4H shows go through a specific registry, but they can't have horns.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Horns are still growing slowly, but surely. Still haven't, thankfully, caused us any issues. I got poked a bit while trying to teach one to take the bottle, but I knew where they were and it wasn't a big deal, haha!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

sooo adorable with those horns!!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Thank you! They give me insight to their mineral needs as well. Stormy's good but Pinocchio seems like he needs a bit more copper. Very interesting. I do like that Pinocchio's curve back a bit more than Stormy's do. I'd imagine that tends to be safer.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> :thumb: Just have to always watch the horns....I have an A.D.D. goat who is always flinging her head around...:lol:


LOL!!
I have a ticklish doe who does the same!
(Surprised she didn't break my jaw once ... and that was just the top of her head ... no horns involved!) 
:hammer:


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

*(Sorry...off topic)*



rollinghillsfarm said:


> No issues milking, either, although I don't have milk goats; just one Spanish doe who always singles so I feel free to help myself. (I keep her because her babies are spectacular. She's ready to deliver now and I bred her to my very robust Cashmere buck - I can't wait to see what the kid looks like!)


Is a Spanish doe the same as La Mancha?
I'd love to see your Cashmere cross.


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## alikat72 (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm having the opposite experiment as you right now. I just bought my first disbudded doeling, 3/4 nubian. It is strange for me to see her so big and no horns.

I remember my vet mentioning something about "tipping" horns around 3 to 4 months of age. Just nipping off the very tip of each horn and then as an adult they shouldn't be so pointy at the end. I've not tried it or been around any that had it done that I'm aware of.

I think they are so cute when they are little and the horns are just coming in.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

No they are not the same BUT Lamanchas are the result of a short eared spanish goat breed to something... I dont quite remember the details.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Stormy demanding dinner, haha! Little dagger-heads now. :lol: They're doing really well. I just have to be careful carrying them now - I put a hand behind their heads so they can't spear me, haha!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Cute!!;-)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Silly little man.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

soooo cute! those horns are looking adorable!


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

alikat72 said:


> I remember my vet mentioning something about "tipping" horns around 3 to 4 months of age. Just nipping off the very tip of each horn and then as an adult they shouldn't be so pointy at the end. I've not tried it or been around any that had it done that I'm aware of.


I trim the tips of mine. I start trimming at two months old just taking a tiny bit(1/4th inch) at a time every few months. It allows the tips to get blunt and doing it slowly prevents bleeding. I stop once I'm happy with how rounded they are.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

The horns are now proper little horns! They are sturdy and firm - that made me happy because I'm trying hard to meet their nutritional needs. Mom and I were just saying we're actually glad they have horns because the bucks are coming into rut and when they try to mount the smaller wethers, the wethers are able to toss their heads as a "creep deterrent", haha!

We moved pastures today and the wethers are not lead trained, so we carried them. Only problem with the horns thus far is if you are holding a collar close to them and they decide to toss their head, it can bop your hand. So we'll be sure if and when we do lead them, we have a leash so that our hands are kept away from the horns.

So far, so good.  I'm very pleased.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad it is going well for you.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Awesome!! we're going to have to have pictures..... hehe


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'll try to take some tomorrow if I remember to bring my phone!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Finally, here are some pictures of Stormy (brown), and Pinocchio (dark chocolate).

I just finished giving them their first hoof trim. They led very nicely, and I clipped them to the fence and trimmed them that way. Horns were no problem (yet, haha!) and are still quite cute.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They are adorable!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

They're a pair of cuties.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

they're so cute! I really do like the look of horns. and, I made use of them when I needed to man handle my goats for whatever reason (like drenching). they make good little handles.


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## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

Hey three, you may want to get halters on any bucks you keep with horns. All my goats are horned and as my buck has gotten horny (tee hee) he's been really tough. He's two now and I really like his genetics, so I put up with a lot from him. Recently I noticed his weaver halter was looking too small (his head is starting to look amazing. It's huge!) I took it off to let his nose heal up and it has been a major pita to move him around. If he doesn't want to go somewhere it's like a mr. Universe competition with me holding the horns and him digging in and pushing me back ( I weight about 240). I can't wait til my Sopris halters get here. He's putty in my hands with a halter.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You should never leave a halter on an animal all the time. Not only getting it stuck on something but the rubbing on the face can lead to serious sores.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Baphomet said:


> Hey three, you may want to get halters on any bucks you keep with horns. All my goats are horned and as my buck has gotten horny (tee hee) he's been really tough. He's two now and I really like his genetics, so I put up with a lot from him. Recently I noticed his weaver halter was looking too small (his head is starting to look amazing. It's huge!) I took it off to let his nose heal up and it has been a major pita to move him around. If he doesn't want to go somewhere it's like a mr. Universe competition with me holding the horns and him digging in and pushing me back ( I weight about 240). I can't wait til my Sopris halters get here. He's putty in my hands with a halter.


The collars are actually working pretty well for us! We use a collar and a lead at this time and they're learning well.   Thanks for the suggestion, though!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

How do the horns look to you guys - healthy?


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## Rhandi74 (Dec 6, 2013)

Wow... I just read this whole thread. I have polled and horned goats in my herd and have never had a problem until now. My polled goats have always been the bosses. My smallest doe was herd queen forever and she is polled. She learned at a young age that her teeth are great at getting her way with the other goats, she never uses them on people. My problem now is a 3 month old doeling and she recently started using her horns on me. I believe she is playing but this is not ok and I have never had this problem before. I do believe she will be a wild one for sure. I am working on trying to teach her that that it is unacceptable, she has only just started this behavior so I was not working with her previously.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Danielle, the horns look really healthy. they may flake as they grow ( found mine did), but they smooth out.

Baphomet, try one hand on a horn and one on the tail. that's how the breeder of my goats man handles her goats. hers are mostly wild (lots of goats on lots of pasture)


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## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

Yeah, there's no way I would try that at this point. He is in rut, and frankly I am just staying the hell away from him. I had no idea he was capable of such dangerous behavior. Can't wait until he has bred everyone and he just goes back to being a normal *******, rather than this freakish, oversexed monster. I've had him since he was five months and it's amazing the change that has happened this breeding season. I'm sure you all have seen this before...


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

My bucks have high energy during rut too - thankfully no dangerous behavior. I think they're too busy butting each other and trying to pee on me! :lol: Plus I specifically chose very calm bucks (except for my home-bred buck, who is lovely but high strung, haha!)


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

sounds like my guys except you forgot the mounting each other too.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

No issues to report. Both boys were total darlings with Stacey's visiting toddler, Liam. We watched the horns to be careful, but they followed him around, gave him kisses, and let him throw his arms around their necks in an unexpected hug. (When I saw him hugging them I put my hands over the horns, to be safe). I'm very pleased with these boys. They are for sale, if anyone knows of someone looking for super nice pet quality wethers.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Awe!!! If I was closer it would be very tempting however, I have 4 bucks and a little wether already, most of them are up for sale.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

They're cuties.  I know what you mean, we're pretty full up too! I was very proud of how they behaved with Liam.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Aww , sweet picture Danielle  Wow Liam has grown ! Such a cutie 
Your wethers are just adorable


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Little boys are going to their new home today. :') Very bittersweet as despite my best efforts I am quite attached. They're special boys. This home is super nice and they are excited to have them.

I trimmed their hooves today. They were a little grumpy about it (might have had something to do with being stuck in the snow, lol!) but my mom fed them treats during it and they decided it wasn't so bad.  She kept a hand behind their head to protect my caboose from their horns, lol!

Overall I can see that the horns are something extra to think about - you have to watch while handling them that you are aware of where they are. But I have had no problems with aggression, fencing, or any kind of injury to goat or man. I would recommend if the goats are around small children, to put tennis balls on the top of their horns and teach the children to respect and watch the horns.

I plan to keep the horns on my wethers in the future.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Cool! I've never had a problem with horned goats... I think they actually look cool on some goats


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats great news Danielle !  Yeah , how could you not get attached to them  But knowing they are off to a awesome home , its a wonderful feeling 

Yep , i agree , goats with horns must be managed with care at all times. I know it , i have two  Gotta watch out when hugging them or you get a horn in the cheek ! What i find funny watching them is one of mine , Asialee , scratches her shoulders with her horns , lol..She's a master at getting all those itchy spots with them , lol. 
And , i don't believe how sharp those horns are ! I don't ever underestimate them , even for a minute ! I have never seen any aggression to anyone either. I think the goats that don't have horns , are careful around those that do . at least from what i have seen.
I love how my wether Hershey looks with his horns , so very handsome  And Asialee , she looks very regal , and given the fact that she is my herd matriarch's doeling , she wears her horns very well


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

They are sharp! I didn't tip them and I may next year. Someone said that's when you take just a tiny, tiny tip off of it and it keeps it blunt. I'll have to go back and re-read ... don't want any bleeding!


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