# Ankle twist



## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

My goat Pinto has developed an problem. When he's walking on soft terrain, his left rear foot twists as he walks. His heel twists out, his toes go inward, and he puts all his weight on the outside toe. He's not putting his weight on the inside toe. When he's on a hard surface, or when he's running, the problem isn't apparent. I've tried all kinds of hoof trimming things (got, and watched the NWPG video), but it's not improving. I think I have the hooves pretty parallel with the hairline and they seem pretty flat. His left foot looks just like his right, which works fine. Attached are some pics. Any knowledge, wisdom, guidance, or suggestions would be appreciated.














































In this picture the inside toe is on the left. It seems to be lower and not aligned as vertical as the outside toe. But the right foot looks the same, and doesn't twist.


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

Somewhere in the archives of this forum are photos and advice for me when I wrote in about Noggin's hoof problem. I think the topic was "hoof deformity" or something like that. Noggin's back right hoof looks a lot like your guy's. I just keep on it with trimming and trimming, at least twice as often as the other goats. Rex looked at it last summer at the Wyoming rendy and said he has long toes.


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

I have corrected issues like this on my goats and on client's animals. All that heel bulb is part of the problem. If you trim the INSIDE part where the heel bulbs are rubbing so that they can expand back to an EVEN pair, you will have less issue with leaning to or favoring one side. 

I don't know if I can explain in words (I'm not eloquent at all) but I am trimming a clients goats tomorrow. Even if she does not big bulbs in her herd, I will place my shears and take pics to illustrate what to do. It really does work and you can typically fix the issue in a trim or two. 

I will not be home to post until Wednesday, but I will get to it if someone doesn't get to it before me.


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

Ok here it goes....
When trimming the bulbs, remember that in order for the goat to be standing properly, expansion will need to take place. This means that you may have to trim a bit then let the goat walk on the hoof to redistribute its weight. Check the hoof after a bit to see if the problem is starting to fix itself. You are unlikely to see an IMMEDIATE weight shift as soon as you put the hoof down. (its kinda like taking off a pair of tight fitting shoes after wearing them all day. Your feet and legs need to readjust).

The pics are not perfect and the example goat was not too bulbous. It was uneven just like your goats hooves but the "before" picture was blurry.

Just FYI this is a Nigerian Dwarf's hooves. She is in a stall most of the time and tends to get twists on both back feet and really broken pasterns. After a trim she is comformationally correct for about four weeks. Then she drops and twists again.

See Pic comments for details.
[attachment=4:18sv8pag]2011-08-09 11.58.23.jpg[/attachment:18sv8pag]
[attachment=3:18sv8pag]2011-08-09 11.59.38.jpg[/attachment:18sv8pag]
[attachment=2:18sv8pag]2011-08-09 12.00.03.jpg[/attachment:18sv8pag]
[attachment=1:18sv8pag]2011-08-09 12.00.32.jpg[/attachment:18sv8pag]
[attachment=0:18sv8pag]2011-08-09 12.02.52.jpg[/attachment:18sv8pag]

Five pic maxxxx more to come...


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

....Continued from previous post

[attachment=2:3pv3ykgn]2011-08-09 12.03.09.jpg[/attachment:3pv3ykgn]
[attachment=1:3pv3ykgn]2011-08-09 12.08.19.jpg[/attachment:3pv3ykgn]
[attachment=0:3pv3ykgn]2011-08-09 12.08.35.jpg[/attachment:3pv3ykgn]

Although there are many things not said here, it should give you a good base to work with. Good luck Jeff.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks Jessica!!! Let me see if I have this right... the problem is that the hoof pivots around on the heels. And I should level each heel with its toe? It also looks like you took some off the inside of one of the hooves. Was that the dominant hoof?

If it's just a matter of trimming some heel, and trying to get them level with the rest of the toe, I may be able to handle it. Otherwise you may need to come out here to The-middle-of-nowhere, New Mexico and show me how to do it.  It's great packgoat country.

Here's Pinto. He's a good guy, and really loves to hike.


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

Jeff,
Close. The problem is NOT that the foot is pivoting on the heels (i'm not even sure it can), the problem is that the FAT heel bulbs will PUSH the not so fat hoof clove to the side. It will act like a fatman flying coach on Southwest. The fat guy (or heel bulb) will take up the seating room for two people. The skinny guy squeezes in the best he can so that he can make it home for Thanksgiving, but by the end of the flight.....he needs a chiropracter. Same with the two heels. One fat heel is going to squish the other and needs to be corrected. This unbalance is what is causing the twist.

This can sound so confusing.....Again, I'm sorry I'm not as eloquent as some other folks. I can't articulate exactly what I am thinking well sometimes. 

If you look at the second picture I posted. The one where I am trimming High and Inside the heels, THAT IS THE CUT THAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE. This is the cut that puts that "fat man" on Jenny Craig so that both Heels can sit nicely together and not have one taking up more space than the other. 

It really has little to do with the Heel to toe balance, its all about thinning out that fat heel. make sure the heels are equal widths. 

I could write volumes about tubuels, expansion, pressure and digital cusion health to explain proper hoof function (in fact I think I'm a bit obsessed with goat feet), but the bottom line is.....if you have difficulty trimming down the fat bulb, you buy that plane ticket and I'm there!!!!!


As it goes, You Buy, I Fly!


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

You explained that really well I think Jessica.  The photos are good too.
I have the same problem with kids all the time, but as I am used to it I just trim the bigger side down and 'flatten' it out as soon as I see it starting to unbalance, so the problem doesn't get big. We also have a doe with splayed toes who gets a twist in her ankle very quickly if we don't trim them often.
In your second pic jross, you can see the lower half is thicker at the base - sort of more a pear-shape. One clip of it in between the two halves, along the line from the toe, to thin it out and another clip on the base of the heel to lower it to the same height, and it should be about right.  
Cheers,
Cazz


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks Cazz (and again to Jessica). I did as you said, and I think the problem is a lot less. We will be going for a hike this weekend, and I'll see how it goes. 

It was getting pretty bad, so I maybe it's going to take some time to get it totally fixed. But at least now I know what to work on.


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

Damn, there goes my trip to New Mexico.
:roll:


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Pinto is walking very nicely today.

You find a way to get here, and I'll find a place for you (and goats, if you want) to stay. Winter is a good time to come. Be in shape because the place is spectacular, but it's 5000-10,000 ft, and steep.


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

I am traveling to Nevada this winter. Maybe a detour is in the cards.

Do you still have Petey? He was my screen saver for months. I fell like I know your dog. Moose too. Your pics have the nicest hues of blue in them.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks, Jessica. I had no idea you had Petie's pic. The reason the pics have nice blues is because that's actually the color of the sky here.

Petie died last summer. He was 14, going on 15, and declining pretty fast. He didn't survive surgery to remove a big lipoma. He was one of the best friends I've ever had.

We found a new hiking buddy, Jessie, at the dog pound last winter. She's about 2 yrs old and full of energy and enthusiasm. She's a pretty little "blue heeler", and takes her responsibilities as camp and home security, goat herder, and hiking buddy very seriously.


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## gina (Jul 28, 2013)

Boy am I glad I found this. Aspen was starting this twist on the inside of his right rear hoof, I noticed the high and fat heel on the outside toe. I trimed the heel down and some off the inside, but after seeing this, I will be taking more off.

Thanks this is great.


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