# Dilemma. ...need opinions please



## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Kind of a long story. .....

Had a mom and her 17 year old daughter come out this last spring and pick out a doeling. They have no experience with goats. I showed them wether style kids and traditional breeding style kids and they chose a very nice little wether style doe. At weaning she was sent to their their place 3 hours away. 

First communication they told me they could not contain her. They had put her in a stall by herself next to a pen with 2 aged does they bought from somewhere else. The little doe was terrified. 

Next communication 2 months later, they couldn't get the doe to walk in a collar. They said she would freak out every time they put the collar on so they would put her away so as not to stress her. 

Then they bring her to a jackpot. She did ok in the ring, but was very head shy and pulled down hard making herself look terrible. She placed 3rd out of 3 against 2 does that where double her size. They were disappointed. 

Next communication a month later, the doe is having "seizures" when we try to walk her. I ask what she means by seizure and she basically described a child like fit. Throwing herself on the ground, choking herself, screaming, etc. Their solution, put her away and don't stress her. :/ Are you seeing the pattern? And let me clarify, all along I'd been coaching them to work her through the fit and put her away when she was being good. I assured her it was not a seizure. 

Next communication, took her to a 3 day jackpot. Day before show they went in the pen and grabbed her head. She immediately dropped to the ground and quivered into the corner. They called me crying, saying she had another seizure and they thought she was going to die and was not showable.

I had another kid there at the show with a doe they were leasing. I told her look at it and that I would trade her straight across. She didn't like the other doe as well so asked to send the one she had back and come pick out another one the follow week. So she put the doe on the trailer back to my place. 

A few days later she called and said she didn't want another goat, she wanted her money back. So naively she tricked me to take the goat back. I told her I would not do that and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the doe. So then she asked if I'd sell it for her. I reluctantly agreed for a fee and repayment for feeding her. 

She's now been here since June and the lady has turned down 2 offers that were $200 under her asking price. I've trained the doe properly and she shows great. Still a bit head shy, but there are no fits. I'm getting real tired of the whole ordeal. I like the doe a lot and wouldn't mind keeping her. However, I'm stubborn and feel like there is a principal involved. 

So.....what would you all do? Here's a few pics of "Seizure".


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)




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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would just give her some money back. Subtract out training, care and feed fees. Not to mention transportation fee and minus any non-refundable deposit.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ugh....so sorry you are dealing with ignorant people....I feel bad for the doeling for having to go through all of that. Maybe have them see how well she does for you and tell them that the longer she stays the more her cost adds up so even if they get their "asking" price, she'll be more expensive anyway.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

What a shame you have to go through this, I am sorry. If you want to keep her, I'd probably go by what you sold her for, and subtract care and training expenses. That or take the highest offer, if they don't like it, then they should have sold the goat themselves.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Poor girl, it seems like they were being too rough with her and she is deathly afraid of them. So sad. 
I wonder if they used the spike collar on her?

They needed to take the sale with $200 less of what they paid for her, the reasoning is, they abused this doe, and with the training help you put into her after the sell and after she was returned, with all expenses, adds up. They should have no rights to goats. Those pics prove there is nothing wrong with her with your training. They apparently, did not listen to your good advice.

I would tell them, they will take the money you get or leave it, I wouldn't mess around with them. End it, it is your terms, because you have been given that right by them to do so. They have to realize the work and everything you have done, must not go unrewarded. Sorry for the vent, but people like that irritate me and I will not be slapped in the face like that.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree, offer to buy her back, for less because of feeding, hauling, etc. Or have them come back and you can show them that she leads just fine now and does not have seizures, if they still don't want her, just buy her back.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

What a nasty situation, kudos to you for standing your ground! Just from reading this, this lady sounds like she's "one of those types" and has had experience with playing the victim card.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I would offer her 2/3 of what she paid for the goat. Tell her the other 1/3 was eaten up by feed and training. Then keep the doe. That's what I would do if I were you.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with Pam, she sounds very abused and with the 'seizures' I bet they were chocking her out! I also agree with buying the goat minus feed. I know that's not what you want BUT I can see you feeding this goat for months and they just come in and take her and probably leave you out on paying back. Chalk it up to lesson learned, people are crooked jerks and just be done with them......I'm in one of those situations myself and I know it's not right, and it's not what one wants but is worth it in the long run to NEVER deal with them again.


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## Mike_CHS (Mar 25, 2015)

This is one of those situations that reminds me to get all terms and conditions in writing. Both the sale and the return. Sorry you are having to go through all of this.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

She looks like a nice doe. I cracked up when you referred to her as "Seizure". I know it's not funny though...


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I contacted the lady yesterday and told her this needs to end. She needs to pick out another doe as agreed before I took back the other. She said no. They have found another breeder with the "type" of boer goats they prefer and bought all they want. She basically said that they have decided they don't like my goats and just want their money back. I'm so furious that she was not honest with me in the first place. I would have told her to sell the goat herself.

Grr! Why does she think it's my problem that she didn't know what "type" she liked. 

I begrudgingly offered to give her 60% of her money back because of all the work and feed I've put into her. She declined stating that I shouldn't get paid for taking care of my own goat! Unreal! Where do people get off? I'm going to give her 7 days to pick up the goat or relinquish all rights to her. Possession is nine tenths of the law. Right?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Make sure you do that in writing.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Yup, sending a certified letter.


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## Shepherd Sue (Sep 15, 2011)

Send a letter with signature required so she can't say she never got it. Give her 10 days from the date of signature to pick up either goat or the 60% fees. In the letter state price per day of board while attempting to sell her goat. Price for retraining and such. State if not picked up by the end of that time period the goat will be yours. Also mention in the letter the two offers she turned down. This should cover your butt.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

Wow, this lady is unreal! She obviously doesn't understand how livestock sales work, if she did she would realize you went above and beyond what the normal breeder would have done. I agree with sending a cert. letter that way she can't go back and say that you've stolen her and won't return her.


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

You are NOT feeding your own goat if she is still the owner of it! And she IS still the owner, at least until everything is settled. She bought it - it's hers.

Wow, what a special little snowflake she is . . .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Shepherd Sue said:


> Send a letter with signature required so she can't say she never got it. Give her 10 days from the date of signature to pick up either goat or the 60% fees. In the letter state price per day of board while attempting to sell her goat. Price for retraining and such. State if not picked up by the end of that time period the goat will be yours. Also mention in the letter the two offers she turned down. This should cover your butt.


 Good advice.
Yes, write down all that you have done and price column all, feed, training ect, from the date you took her in. Retraining a goat who was mistreated takes some work to get her unafraid and comfortable again. The goat also had to be trained to stand properly on a lead because of their roughness and you had to correct that big error. IMO they should not have any goats.

Print out and keep all emails, keep anything that was mentioned in a PM of all your efforts and what she said.

I see nothing wrong with that Doe, she is nice. It is because they are being to greedy and not totally getting their way, so are cutting her down for it, because they had no patient and treated her roughly IMO.

She to me abandoned that goat and by law that alone is not legal to do.
You have to now feed and care for her without any help from the buyer. Find out the law in your state, I believe she may be breaking that. You have tried all effort in trying to resolve the issue and she has put it all on you, even taking her in to try to sell her for them and now being told, that is not enough, with the minus of your cost in care ect. and not wanting her back at all. She wants you to get nothing for training and care for her, just full price she paid on that purchase date. Not right or fair.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Thank you all for the thoughts and support. She has opted to take the cash offer and move on. Whew. So glad that's over!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is good.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So, glad it worked out. :sadhappy:


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