# Not sure what we're doing wrong here!



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Our goats are up to date on worming <we alternate between Equimax, Quest Plus and Cydectin>. 
They get 16% medicated pellet grain and we were feeding clover hay and now feed alfalfa/grass mix horse hay.
2 of our girls we weaned about a month ago, one of them was getting skinny from having twins.
Now both are skinny. They had Equimax wormer and then last week/10 days later had Cydectin.
2 thin girls were getting 1lb. of grain a day, and we've started giving them more over the last week.

We have a doe with triplets and she seems to be maintaining herself okay, she gets 3lbs. of grain a day divided into 2 feedings.

Our buck was sick early this year, so we've had to gradually work him back up, he lost a LOT of weight when that happened, and he's been putting it back on, gained around 50lbs.

The 4-H girls are okay, but 2 of them are not filled out, and not sure what we're doing wrong with them - they get plenty of grain <basically creep fed> and they have hay 24/7, pick eyelids, and wormed with alternate wormers.
Another one is a bit 'flabby' I am unsure how we can 'muscle them up'
We were at a show last night and these goats always looked muscled, and filled out and again, I don't know what we're not doing right with them.

We don't have a lot of grass/land, but there is plenty for them to graze on especially considering we are in a drought - we have more 'green' than most people in this area.
Yet the does just lay around most of the day, as if they are waiting for hay/grain.

I feel like all we are doing is graining them and not getting a decent result.

It just gets so frustrating...I'm not sure what we should change in order to have them 'fat and happy.' The does are not thick/meaty goats, but they should have more weight on them, and the 4-H girls IMO should be filled out more, and definitely more muscle.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Our doe also got skinny after weaning. She's one of those does who pour all of her weight into her milk, and the stress of weaning affects it as well.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Not sure on the does being too thin. But alternating dewormers can can the worms to become resistant. NC State University suggests using one dewormer until it is resistant, especially with barber pole worms. Not sure if thats what happened or something else, but its something to consider.

The does with alot of muscle is genetics to some extent but they are probably being excercised. Its not as much as wethers but they're still probably getting worked. Plus, people use all kinds of supplements on them to keep that show look. Its amazing how much they feed those goats.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Are they boers or dairy goats? Certain dairy goat breeds get quite boney looking while they're in milk! (Especially sanaans and sables)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much, I appreciate it 

Woodhavenfarm- I think that is what is going on, they didn't look this rough when they had their kids. They can see their kids, they also share a fenceline, and I am sure that is probably more stressful than selling the kids and not having them here vs. hearing them cry and want their mama. Both does are excellent mama's and always concerned about their kids.

Dani I totally agree about wormers. We just started using Cydectin earlier this year. The only reason we give Equimax or Quest once or maybe twice a year depending on the goat, is to help take care of anything Cydectin may not kill. 
I can't afford to do regular fecals, I wish I could, and when I start working I plan on getting a microscope and learn to do our own.



groovyoldlady said:


> Are they boers or dairy goats? Certain dairy goat breeds get quite boney looking while they're in milk! (Especially sanaans and sables)


This could be part of it too. We don't know what the Kiko/mix doe is crossed with, could be anything. We bought her in April 2010, and it seems as though she does get thin during the summer months, especially while nursing and after weaning and she puts a lot into her kids.
She had a single this year, but she is a big baby, was weaned about 65-70lbs at 3 months old. We did let two of the triplet kids nurse on her for a week or two just once a day to help their mama out a little.

The mama with triplets is nubian/boer and does favor the nubian. We kept her daughter and that's the one that we recently weaned from her babies. She's by a boer buck, but I'm thinking she might favor more of her mama. She's just so scrawny looking  I'll have to try and get pics later this afternoon when it cools off.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I stopped weaning just for that reason, they lost so much weight. I now take them right off their mom and sell, I dont get as much money for them in the long run since they are semi small, but its better then feeding them for a month for nothing. Is it hot where you are??? When I was in 4h and did my beef steer the fair was in sept. and the heat took so much out of them. This man (with more money then he knows what to do with it) built a little house and had this guy turn it into like a walk in freezer so that they stayed cool, I have to say his sons steer looked great, but didnt do so well with out his freezer at the fair. So if its hot is there a way to keep them cool, like maybe a mister or something, or hey if your good on money a freezer lol.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is the weaning process....but as mentioned... worms can become resistant...

If you can ...get 1 fecal done.. from the skinniest Doe...I'd get a fecal for worms and cocci...remember ...stress can trigger either one...Adults can get an overload of cocci and not show signs of scouring but... do lose a lot of weight.. no matter how well fed... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone. I really feel it's not a worm issue, but could definitely be a cocci - we've never treated for cocci before just the medicated feed. We are going to do a cocci treatment, we wanted to finish their dosing of LA200 before we treat, since all we have are SMZ's, and didn't want them getting them too close together with the LA200.

I put some pictures up of them here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33344

BTW, in those pics, I forgot to add that we did shave everyone a few weeks ago, and they are dirty, if I washed them they would be white LOL

Everyone seems to be over the upper respiratory infection, and it's cooled off, the high yesterday was 90, will be around that today, but the big difference has been, low humidity, so it doesn't feel 10 degrees hotter.
Yesterday they went back/forth to the woods to browse on their own without one of us going out there and coaxing them to go out, and were grazing in the pen, clearly responding well after the heat wave.

The one doe I've been worried about actually finished her grain last night, with a little beet pulp added too. She seems to be feeling much better, but now she needs to look better.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

Back when I was first learning how to do fecals I would send samples to http://www.midamericaagresearch.net to double check my results. I usually heard back from them a couple days after they were sent and it's only $5 per sample. It might be worth it to you to send a couple samples. Maybe one of the kids and one of the does that look skinny.
If it's really hot where you live that might affect how much they are eating. Mine don't want to graze much lately and just hang out in the shade all day.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Call your counties extension office (same as 4-H) and ask for the livestock agent. Our county has a microscope we can use and our agent will teach how to do fecals if asked. Maybe you could get help there?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Dani-1995 said:


> Call your counties extension office (same as 4-H) and ask for the livestock agent. Our county has a microscope we can use and our agent will teach how to do fecals if asked. Maybe you could get help there?


I'll have to ask our livestock leader, she would probably know, thanks for that suggestion!


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a tough time with the mammas this year when they had triplets. They are still not fat, not skinny but not what I think they should be and I need to think about the cocci to be a problem. The yearlings are chubbs and getting way too fat.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm thinking cocci too Merry. I just don't see any other reason they are thin like this. Surely one of the wormers worked if they had a worm issue since I used high doses of Equimax and then did it again 10 days later with Cydectin.
I started giving the doelings <4-6mo girls> some SMZ tablets yesterday, we'll start the 2 does I am concerned about on the SMZ hopefully today as well.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I checked their eye lids again today. The 4-H girls 4 of 5 are now DARK pink instead of kinda dark! the 5th one is darker but not as much as I'd like.
The 2 does that I am concerned about aren't pale, but not as dark compared to the 4-H girls.
We are now treating the 4-H girls/2 does for cocci as a precaution. We've never treated for cocci before and with the one doe looking so awful, if we don't see an improvement after this, then I will have a fecal done and make sure it's not worms that the wormer didn't get.
Good news is that doe has regained an appetite since the heatwave ended, and is eating a little over a pound in a feeding and looking for more! So I'll start increasing it a little each day. 

I will bring the fecal up to our ag leader, but I'm going to wait until after next week - the county 'youth expo' starts I believe the 23rd, and she's been extremely busy trying to plan for that. If I don't bring it up by then, I'll bring it up at the kids next 4-H livestock club meeting. II think if they do have the equipment, then I'll bring it up that maybe the club should have a meeting on worming, cocci and fecals, and have a fecal demonstration in the class.


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