# Considering LGD



## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

Considering recent events, I am considering a LGD and a friend is helping me find one. I have stupid questions concerning liability and safety of my current dogs (and human family members). 

I've been reading about training dogs to livestock, I figure I will set up a kennel in the middle of the yard and let the goats and dog get to know each other that way and allow supervised visits until they have bonded and the dog knows that goats are not squeak toys. 

My concerns are, if the pup is 8-12 months or so, will it hate me and my daughter? Will there be any tendency for him/her to guard the goats from us? 

What breeds are less prone to jumping fences and roaming? The most common around here are Gt Pyrneese and Anatoliain/Gt Pyr crosses. 

How do I teach him/her not to bark all night? I do have neighbors and would like for them to keep an eye out for us, not hate us for a barking dog. 

Will this dog try to protect the livestock from my pet dogs? I have Kelpies and poodles. They do not run out in the goat pens without us, but they have been known to sneak out with us as we go out back to feed, etc. I adore my dogs and don't want to put them at risk. 

If I should add chickens or other animals in the future, would the dog accept them or attack them?

how do I feed the dog without the goats stealing his/her food? (my old ewe loves dog food)

Wow, with all these questions and doubts, I may not be ready yet....


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I'm not a pro on this by any stretch, but I did get a Great Pyr pup at 8 weeks of age and then a month later got her older sister.

The older sister never thought I was the enemy.

Most likely the LGD will try to protect the herd from your pets dogs, mine do. I have 6 Alaskan Malamutes and an Alaskan Husky also. I lost the older sister, but she did defend the herd from the Mals. The younger sister defends the me from the Husky (who "grumbles" and speaks other Husky and Malamute type languages that sounds like growling) and would defend the herd and flock against the other dogs.

I think they all share the roaming trait. I line all my fencing with electric fence wire to keep them in their own pens.

It's their nature to bark, that is part of their job. It is almost impossible to keep them from barking, barking is how they protect the herds/flock. However, Great Pyrenees tend to bark more than the other breeds.

They have to be taught that the hens and other animals are part of their family or they will attack them. My girl takes very good care of the hens as well as the goats.

I feed all my dogs separately from each other and the other animals. I feed my Pyr in the house.


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

Thank you, lottsagoats1. 
I have had many dogs in my life, but this will be my first true LGD type thing and I want to make sure I am up to it and do it right by one if I move forward with it. I do think it may make my daughter more comfortable. I wonder I even have enough room for one, I'm on a little over an acre. That might make the roaming worse.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

After seeing what lgd can do I've chosen never to get one. I know some have them but my personal choice would be llama or donkey. Dogs really in my opinion shouldn't be with goats. My goats hate dogs. And I knew someone who had a few lgd. They had killed/eaten baby goat one day when we came to the farm. I don't trust them. Other livestock guardian animals are better choices in my opinion. Then you don't have to deal with barking at neighbors either.

Just my opinion. 

Tami


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We don't have a large place either. Our Anatolian 1/4 Pyr is totally bonded with his goats & my husband & I are really the only ones who can handle goats in his presence.
He barks quite a bit, but as already said, that's his job. It is not an annoying bark at all. If it gets loud & aggressive & banging on fence we know there is a real threat. 
You might want to check the laws in your county, ours has an LGD exemption from noise ordinances.
He has jumped fence but we raised it to about 6 feet after he got out & attacked a neighbor dog loose on our property.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

> My concerns are, if the pup is 8-12 months or so, will it hate me and my daughter? Will there be any tendency for him/her to guard the goats from us?


Just depends on the dog. Once the dog gets to know your family, they usually fit right in. Never seen a dog guard the goats from the owner.



> What breeds are less prone to jumping fences and roaming? The most common around here are Gt Pyrneese and Anatoliain/Gt Pyr crosses.


Great Pyrs are usually pretty bad about escaping and roaming. My Anatolians were better about staying put, but I did have one escape and disappear one night. Never found her. Most LGDs need very secure fencing. Tall fence and hotwire on top and bottom is ideal.



> How do I teach him/her not to bark all night? I do have neighbors and would like for them to keep an eye out for us, not hate us for a barking dog.


That's nearly, if not, impossible. If neighbors might be a problem, I wouldn't even get an LGD. Most will bark off and on all night. Some bark all night long. That's when they're awake and come alive. Others are more quiet until there is a threat, but their main defense is barking. It's really hard to train them to stay quiet.



> Will this dog try to protect the livestock from my pet dogs? I have Kelpies and poodles. They do not run out in the goat pens without us, but they have been known to sneak out with us as we go out back to feed, etc. I adore my dogs and don't want to put them at risk.


I have Pyrs and heelers, everyone gets along. They're basically one pack. No problems at all. Depends on the individual dogs.



> If I should add chickens or other animals in the future, would the dog accept them or attack them?


It may have to be trained to accept new animals. Some are great with chickens, some are not...some are great with goats...others aren't. Just depends on the dog. Some dogs will accept any new animals you have, others might have a hard time getting used to them. I used to have an Anatolian that would kill chickens, but my Pyr couldn't care less about them. He was very accepting of all the animals.



> how do I feed the dog without the goats stealing his/her food? (my old ewe loves dog food)


I have a metal "auto" feeder, my does won't get into. A couple of my bucks on the other hand figured it out and will. That might work for you. Otherwise, you'd just have to feed the dog in a separate area everyday.

An acre may not be enough space for an LGD. They are really bred to travel over large distances. You would really need strong, secure fencing to contain the dog. They can be a real pain in the butt. I've had six over the years. Two right now that are working pretty well. One is a year and still needs training. The LGDs are prone to digging, barking, roaming, fence jumping/climbing. Personally I would not keep any if I didn't have to. Unfortunately without them, the coyotes here would move in. I used to have poultry and even a couple goats/kids getting killed nightly before I got the dogs. Now no problem with the predators, but the LGDs bring on other issues...training, fencing, feeding, etc. They can be a handful!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Buck Naked Boers said:


> After seeing what lgd can do I've chosen never to get one. I know some have them but my personal choice would be llama or donkey. Dogs really in my opinion shouldn't be with goats. My goats hate dogs. And I knew someone who had a few lgd. They had killed/eaten baby goat one day when we came to the farm. I don't trust them. Other livestock guardian animals are better choices in my opinion. Then you don't have to deal with barking at neighbors either.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Tami


Some LGDs can be problematic. Sounds like that was a poorly trained or poorly bred dog. I've had llamas and while they were good guardians, the coyotes didn't take them seriously and would come up near the pens and kill stock. Donkeys can be very dangerous around goats. So if someone wanted to give one a try, you'd want to really be cautious and make sure the donkey has the right temperament for the job. Some will injure/kill goats.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes I agree. None of the options are perfect. One of my neighbors have donkeys. They wk pretty well for him I think. 

We have coyotes in our area. No lgd here. We just make sure to have them in the barn by dusk. Have a great fence with electric on top. All has wked well for us so far. I agree with what you said. Some lga are great. We've just chosen not to have any yet.


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

Wow! Thank you for all the input. You all have given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate it!!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I will try to answer all of your questions, but it will be in a jumbled up order. 

We got our LGD in the fall of 2014 when she was 8 months old. She is an Anatolian Shepherd. We originally got her to guard our chickens, but decided to also buy a goat or two to keep her company. We got two Myotonic goats who were 3 months old at the time. We got them from the same lady we got Ayla from, so Ayla and the two goats were already acquainted.

We had around 80 chickens at the time we first got her. Ayla's previous owner had said that she was used to ducks, but not chickens. She (Ayla) was sweet but not overly friendly. But she warmed up to us pretty quickly and now is a total love bug.

Soon after we got her she started chasing our chickens. Then killing a few of them. We researched that on the internet and found out that usually they get over it when they turn 2 years old. So until she was 2 we had her tied up with a long rope during the day when we weren't there, but at night when the chickens were locked up she roamed free in the pasture. 
When she turned 2 years old something changed and she has never killed a chicken since (yes, she's scared them out of their minds a few times by running past them at 100 mph, or occasionally chasing them for a few yards but she never hurts them anymore ).

About feeding her... some of our goats learned that dog food is YUMMY and so they always try to eat it. Ayla used to be tough and would bark at them or chase them away (never hurting them though) but now for some unknown reason she doesn't, and so we either have to stand guard over her until she's done eating, or, now that it is spring, once the goats are out to pasture on the new grass in the electric paddocks we feed her. The chickens also like her food but Ayla won't tolerate them eating it like she will the goats. :?

We have introduced into the pasture chicks, full-grown chickens, many new goats, newborn goat kids, calves, cows and turkeys, and Ayla has done well with all of them. Well, actually all of them except one of our cows, Candy. 
One time, when Candy was in the goat/chicken pasture (where Ayla is) then she chased several of the goats and almost succeeded in slamming one against the fence with her head. Ayla was very mad and the whole 30 minutes to an hour that Candy stayed in that pasture - to nurse her calf - Ayla stayed near her barking her head off. Only when we removed Candy did she stop. That was many months ago. Now whenever Candy is in that pasture Ayla is always a few yards away barking at her and keeping her away from the goats. She does NOT like that cow.

Ayla quickly realizes that whatever animals we are fine with (except for cats, LOL) she shouldn't chase or hurt. Our house dog, Maizy, never goes into the pasture but Ayla has never acted aggressively towards her when she is right outside the fence.
She (Ayla) has never jumped our fence (I think it's four feet high, maybe a little more) yet. 
She doesn't bark at night unless she sees some animal, and if she does she doesn't bark for long. I would say that we have lucked out with her though. 

Good luck with your search!


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

Goat_Scout, thank you! I do really like the looks of the Anatolians the best, mostly the shorter coat since it gets hot here. 
I was just invited to meet some adult LGDs looking for homes due to a move. I'm not totally sold on the idea since I worry about my low fence (4ft) and my smaller dogs. But, if I can manage one properly and it gives my daughter peace of mind, I will seriously consider one. 
If I could retire and stay home, I wouldn't do it as I am not afraid to confront someone if needed, but my daughter deserves to feel safe in our home.


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

Ok we have a Maremma they have been in Australia for quite a few years now and have been used to guard sheep and other herd animals.In one of the southern states of Aust. They have been successful in guarding Fairy penguins who were being decimated by foxes who had learnt to get to the Penguins island nesting sight at lo tide. There has been a movie made in Aust.about how these amazing dogs were used to guard.The movie is called Oddball and is a true story. Anyway we have had these amazing dogs for many years and are onto our 4th Maremma. The first died of old age the second we had to have put down as she had bladder problems she was born with and the 3rd died from tic bite and our current dog Lulu is still with us and such a wonderful dog.We have raised all from pups and bonded them with new born kids. Like all dogs good behaviour is rewarded. I never feed the dogs with the goats and Lu eats all meals and treats in the house yard. Always supervise children around dogs. Lu not only guards livestock but us as well and we just have to be careful with visitors.Read all you can about these amazing dogs and buy from a breeder who has goats,Lu came from a goat place,teejae


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

Thought I'd better put a picture of her up,teejae


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Pretty girl!


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I have a houseful of yappy ankle biters, and my LGD are fine with them. My male never comes inside, but my girls like the occasional nap on the AC vent indoors.


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

I was just told of two 8 month old girls looking for a working home. Anatolian Shepherd/Gt Pyr crosses. They have been running with sheep and staying behind a 4 ft fence. I pick them up next week. 

I hope I do this right and they work out. 

I have a ton of questions, so I suppose I should start a new thread after searching a bit. 

You guys are the best!

One bizarrely weird question. I like to spend time with the dogs and make them safe and social (to a point). Would it be a problem to take them out once in a while for walks or anything? They are mostly for the goats, but I want them to look out for us, too, and I want to be able to take them safely to the vets, etc. So car rides are a must. I hate the idea of huge dogs I can't carry to the vet in case of emergency or something. 
Thanks!


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

I do this all the time and check fences along the way,pull down branches for the girls and sit and watch them.I some times have a doe sit with me or they come to me for attention and a pat and so does Lu,teejae


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

Thanks, teejae!
It is just weird to me having 'non-pet' dogs. I have herders and pets and even my little show terrier (AHT). I do some trials with the terriers, too. I spend a lot of time socializing dogs/pups to cars, crates, people, noises, etc. I even take them to the drive-in movies. (Yeah, I am a little off lol)
This LGD thing is so different from what I am used to and I already feel sorry for them. lol
I just want to know that when they're off the property, they're off the clock, so to speak.


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

BorderKelpie said:


> Thanks, teejae!
> It is just weird to me having 'non-pet' dogs. I have herders and pets and even my little show terrier (AHT). I do some trials with the terriers, too. I spend a lot of time socializing dogs/pups to cars, crates, people, noises, etc. I even take them to the drive-in movies. (Yeah, I am a little off lol)
> This LGD thing is so different from what I am used to and I already feel sorry for them. lol
> I just want to know that when they're off the property, they're off the clock, so to speak.


Our Maremma is now 8 months old. He is amazing with the goats and on duty in his paddock. We have taught him a word. When he hears this word he can relax. We say this to him if we have other people that need to come in the paddock. Instead of standing and barking he will lay off to the side. 
He also seems to switch off guardian mode when we take him in the car to the vets and just goes along with it but is much happier to be home in with his goats. 
Also we love taking our other dogs to the drive in movies


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