# Critique a Nubian Doe for me please photo added



## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

I am looking at adding another Nubian doe to my herd. I found this girl on craigslist... http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/2757619690.html She is 3 years old now and according to the ad is averaging around 2000 pounds of milk this year.

The doe's pedigree http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail. ... N001448418

The buck she's bred to is named Bryrpatch Top Hat and Tails I'm not finding his pedigree on ADGA for some reason.

They sent me a photo but she is only 6 months in the photo and for some reason it wont let me resize it and add it.

I'm still learning about Nubians so I'd appreciate some feedback from those that know more about them then me. I am wanting to get some nice does to show at some adga shows.

Thanks in advance


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Critique a Nubian Doe for me please*

If you are looking for show quality yo unwed photos to evaluate. :wink:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Critique a Nubian Doe for me please*

that is you need. baby in arms not proof reading and spell check! Gosh sometimes when I reread what I write. :doh:


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Critique a Nubian Doe for me please*

Can i email you the photo they sent me and maybe you can get it to post for me??? I've tried several ways with no luck. I knew what you meant I can figure misspelled words fairly good 

Good news I finally got it to upload on here. She is about 6 month old in this photo according to the owners.

I did google and found one of her daughters, last doe on the page.... Myrtle Lane Molly http://www.secludedacresfarm.net/nubian ... bucks.html


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Critique a Nubian Doe for me please*

I can post photos but can never seam to get them bigger than 4x4. I am happy to post it for you or you can put it on your FB and post the link. That is what I have been doing sometimes. Just have to be sure your account photos are public.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Mar 18, 2011)

Here is Sire's link:
http://adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx ... N001534127

TopHat was one word. He does have some nice lines. I'm sure Tim or Becky would be able to tell you more about the different lines.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Mar 18, 2011)

She had 2600lbs last year, but only 1300 so far this year, only listed til Sept, so I would want to know if she is still in milk or was dried off early.

Looking at her eval, she is priced fairly, kids might be an improvement. I would want a picture of her uddered up. She might not have nice placements or good hand milker teats and that is why they are selling. Reading evals, means trying to read between the lines and get into the evaluators head by looking at other animals from the same herd and comparing pictures of what they like or don't.

With high SCS counts, I'd be asking if she has/had mastitis at one time.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

What would be some good questions to ask? I'll ask about the mastitis for sure don't wanna deal with that.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

how far away is she? 

Im not impressed with her junior picture but I also know goats go through weird growth spurts.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

She's about 2 1/2 hours away which isn't terrible I've driven further for an animal. 

They are going to try and take a better one of her today for me.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I dont know that I would buy the doe by looking at that picture, it could just be the way she is standing but her back looks kinda unlevel to me. However, knowing me I would go look at her anyways and see if I like her in person. I would ask about her history, when she kidded if it was easy as well as ask if she had any health problems you would want to be aware of. A picture of her udder would probably be good to see too. When looking t a Nubian you want to see the normal of length, depth, and width. You want her to look dairy and feminine as well. Hope that helps..


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm trying to understand the linear Appraisal and from what I understand she did score acceptable on her back, rump and general appearance. All her other scores were very good other then her shoulder assembly was a good plus. With a score of 83. 

She might not be good enough to show herself but maybe bred to the right bucks she'd produce me great show kids?! I don't mind if she can't show as long as it's possible to breed her to a great buck to produce excellent kids. 

What you all think???


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

I just got these photos of her today from them along with this info. I kinda like her even if she herself isn't show quality I think she could produce me some nice kids. But i'd appreciate hearing everyone else's opinions that know more then me about them. 

Tansy Last kidded February 2010, is currently Dry in preperation for this February Kidding, and has never had Mastitus. She is current on all shots and worming and will get her next shots in 2 weeks just before this kidding. Attached is a pic I took today, and just remember this is a dry pic. She does have a Huge Udder, and does now have her Milk Star. Produced 2000 # and that was with a single kid last year. Milk Production should go up even more as this was as a 1st freshener. Looks like She will definately at least have twins this year. She does have large teats, but is really easy to milk, and great on the milk stand

Thanks!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Well, she's definately super deep. Even being bred, I'm sure she won't lose all of that. She is a bit steep in the rump, but bred to the right buck that could definately be corrected. I'm not really liking her rear pasterns, a little weak especially for a 3 year old. That could be due to her being so heavy, could be a selenium deficiency, but could also be the way she is. If you go look at her, I would definately look at her feet to see how well they have been cared for as that could be a factor in her weak pasterns. She isn't striking me as being super feminine, but she does appear overweight, so freshening could help slim her up a little. Her teats look like they are probably very large when she is full, but it depends on you if you like larger teats or not.

Based on her Type Eval, at least what I get from them lol, I am by no means an expert... She is tall, a little weak in strength, a little coarse in dairyness, steep in rump angle, wide in rump width, angled in rear leg set, a little loose in fore-udder attachment, low in rear-udder height, narrow in rear-udder arch, a tad shallow in udder depth, a little weak in medial suspensory ligament, wide in teat placement, and wide in teat diamater. Her final Linear Structural traits are Acceptable in General Appearance, Very Good in Dairy Character, Very Good in Body Capacity and Very Good in Mammary System. Final score is 83. Not terrible for a 2 year old, but of course could have been better. I think she would be a good start and could produce really nice kids bred to a good buck.

I'm not really understanding what they told you though... on her DHIA she has had 3 lactations with her last kidding in March of 2011. She must have been dried off in August. Her production is really good, especially as a first freshener. Around here they say a Nubian is a good milker if she produces 4 lbs a day her first time... my goal is to have does who top out at least 8 lbs their first freshening. Her only kids that are registered are twins that were born in 2010. As a coming 4th freshener, I wouldn't expect her production to go up any more than what she produced this year (2011). What they are telling you isn't really making sense according to what ADGA has on her DHIA records... perhaps they are confusing her with another doe and gave you the wrong reg. name?

The higher SCS counts could be nutritional. I have been told that increasing the Zinc (immune support) can help to lower the SCS count, also does who are fed high sugary diets can also have higher SCS counts. Perhaps changing her diet could help her SCS.

I think she would be a good investment as she does have plenty of good qualities. I would definately ask about her health record (sicknesses and kidding) and look at her feet to see if they may be the problem with her pasterns. Have you asked about CAE testing? I would definately want to see a recent negative CAE. Any breeder that is truthful will let you see the test results in person. I have even had breeders give me a copy for my own records.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

I thought her rear pasterns were weak also so i enlarged the photo and it looks like she's not been trimmed correctly. Her toes are long while she has little to no heel. Is a steep rump a bad thing?? The A.i. clinic we went to the lady told us that a slightly steep rump was a good thing makes it easier for the babies to slid out. Was she wrong?? I'm still trying to learn here so please fill me in. I'm not arguing just asking questions to learn more. I have only milked 1 Nubian and she has tiny teats so I don't have a preference yet.

I emailed them back asking about the lactation's because they say 1 kid but the records say boy and girl. So I'm confused also.

Thanks for that info, we are currently mixing corn with Noble goat pellets. I'm going to get some alfalfa pellets to add to the girls when they are being milked. I forgot to get some last week since Ruby has kidded. I'm not really sure what is the best feed for dairy goats, I'm just feeding them similar to my boers.

I asked if she was healthy they said yes. The new email I sent I asked about the CAE after you suggested it. I haven't done that with my other 2 yet but need to learn more about it. We just got our first Nubian last year around Christmas so I'm desperately trying to learn all I can about them. 

Thank you ptgoats45 for all your wonderful answers and help and everyone else that has posted back to me.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

You do want some angle to the rump, but in showing they want it to be fairly level. Hers would most likely level out if you pinched her back like they do when shown, but on the move a judge would be able to tell she isn't perfectly level. I think if the rump gets too steep the doe can have trouble kidding as the kids would have more of an angle to bend to come out, some angle is good and expected, a lot is not good. I had a doe who had a very steep rump, way more than the doe you are looking at. She didn't have too many problems kidding but did get knocked down in the show ring. That same doe was bred to a really nice buck when I bought her. The kid had an almost perfectly flat rump, so definately can be fixed in her kids. If you look at goats that were shown at the higher levels, they all have some angle to the rump.

Even with your other goats not tested for CAE, you would do good to make sure you are getting a negative doe. Especially for the price they are asking. No point in paying that much for a goat you will have to heat treat/pasteurize all of the colostrum and milk from to prevent the CAE from spreading to her kids and any others you feed her milk.

I bought a doe who had almost no heels. I think it was the way she was trimmed, as she is now starting to get a little more heel and her toes are getting shorter, just in a couple of trims. If you get her, I would be careful when trimming her toes as the quick may be closer than you think. I had that problem with the doe I got and ended up trimming her a little too short the first time....


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I agree with ptgoats critique. I like her sire's pedigree though! Lots of Goldthwaite and Pruittville, and a few Kastdemur's in there as well... Nice. :thumb:


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info I'm learning lots! 

I bought her and she's in my barn. I don't think we'll show her but I hopeful the kids are nice. The lady was a very sweet older women who loved and cared for her goats. She said if we wanna sell her she'd like 1st chance at her. 

She is from a negative CAE herd she even gave me a copy of the results from biotracking. And she was nice enough to explain how exactly to pull the blood from my other does to test them. Makes perfect sense now that she explained it.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'd say you got a pretty nice doe for an excellent price. That's great you got the CAE results on her. Drawing blood isn't very hard, especially once you get the hang of it. I usually clip a little spot on their neck so I can see the vein better. Plus I think it's easier to get it cleaned with the alchohol when they are clipped. You probably could show her, just to see how she does. I think a judge would love her depth and size, but would probably dock points for being a little steep in the rump and possibly if they think her teats are too big. It never hurts to get an outside opinion from someone who can see the goat in person.

Congrats on your purchase! Can't wait to see her kids in a couple months.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Those are not very good pics of her so I can't really give much opinion on her.

But I did was to point out that the Pruitville does in her genetics are awesome looking, I have some of the same does in my goats' pedigrees, they are amazing looking, just go to their website and look at them.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Congrats!


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

ptgoats45- thanks she is an absolute sweetheart I love her personality already and she doesn't even know us all that great yet. We just came in from loving on her and my other 2 Nubians. I think her teats are smaller then they look in that photo. They look like a nice size to me will be nice to milk. Hubby just informed me that he knows how to draw blood so guess what he gets to do now. You'll see photos when they are born don't worry.

Devin- I did check out her ancestors as well as her babies daddy's and liked what I saw.

freedomstar- Thanks!


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