# Is my goat polled?



## pineyriverfarm (Dec 28, 2011)

My doe had her first batch of kids on September 14, 2012. She had 2 bucklings and a doeling. The two boys had obvious horn buds and we disbudded them. I couldn't feel any bumps on the doe so left her alone. We had shaved all three of them at that time. It is now October 3rd and a day or so ago we noticed that the doe had two brown areas where the horns should be. I still cannot feel a central bump. Would she be developing horns at this late stage? Do polled goats have any vestigial tissue that would appear at the site, or should there be no difference at the site where horns usually grow?


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Sounds to me like she very well could be polled. I dont know alot about polled goats. Is either one or the parents polled?


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## pineyriverfarm (Dec 28, 2011)

No, neither parent is polled.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is my understanding that at least one parent has to be polled to have polled. Was the doe tiny? Sometimes it can take longer for does to show their buds than the bucks. I had a tiny doe that was only about a pound when born that didn't show horn buds until she was over 3 weeks old.


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

If both parents are horned (or disbudded), then you can't get a polled kid, at least one parent needs to be polled.

Doelings, do usually grow horns slower then bucklings, do you have any pictures of her?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Is it possible that either parent is polled and was mistakenly disbudded? I had that happen with a registered ND buck...he was disbudded when I got him at 10 weeks old BUT he ended up sireing polled kids AND his dam was polled.

Wether the doeling is tiny or not, at almost 3 weeks old, there should be horn bumps. Even polled goats get bumps, just not points..... if the skin over her horn area slides over the skull easily, she's polled, if it sticks in those areas, she'll develop horns.


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## pineyriverfarm (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the great answers. I know my buck is not polled because he has scurs, but my doe was dehorned when I got her so I guess I don't know for sure. She is listed as disbudded on her papers. The doeling was not especially small when she was born. I guess I should just wait a little longer and see what develops. She won't be 3 weeks old until October 5th.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Usually I found that when I have kids born that if there is one horned and one polled it is easy to tell the difference by the growth pattern of the hair on the horn buds.


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## Goateegoat (Dec 23, 2012)

*is my doe polled and sterile?*

Ok goat people I need help with this. I bought a doe as a kid. The breeder said she was disbudded and the papers state that. I tried to bred her as a dry yearling, NO kids. I am trying to bred her again this year and so far I don't think she has settled. Both times she has been penned with the buck from early September to present. (last year til December) I know the buck is good. She will wag and run from the buck but she has never had any discharge and no swelling or pinkness in that area. The breeder asked a friend of mine last summer if this doe "ever cycled"? Am I sensing a red flag here? I have inspected her head and where the horns would be the fur looks to be like a "cowlick" as one person called it. Am I spinning my wheels on this goat? I have a small herd and limited space and in my book spend a lot of money for this goat. I am thinking about getting her ultra sounded in a couple of weeks. Some people have told me that a polled doe can be sterile. Is this true?


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

No idea but very interesting as I have one polled doeling....


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## sarahsbounty (Oct 6, 2013)

Following! I'm interested too. Liz are you out there??


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Any goat can be sterile, polled or horned, buck or doe.,

I have a polled doe who is turning 9 in May and she's definitely not sterile...she's had a total of 15 kids in her breeding life 

I do have experience with a horned "doe" being sterile...she certainly looked like a doe except that her horns had a wider base than my other does, her teats were tiny and when I held her for my pygmy buck to breed her, he couldn't penetrate...upon inspection of her parts, when I inserted my clean, lubed pinky tip into her vagina, I hit a wall...she had no cervix or even a vaginal canal. This doe is in a pet home and a very happy 10 years old.
You may want to inspect your doe as I did mine, and if she is all girl, you can get your vet involved and try Lute injections to bring on heat.


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## Riggers (Dec 11, 2013)

Goateegoat said:


> Ok goat people I need help with this. I bought a doe as a kid. The breeder said she was disbudded and the papers state that. I tried to bred her as a dry yearling, NO kids. I am trying to bred her again this year and so far I don't think she has settled. Both times she has been penned with the buck from early September to present. (last year til December) I know the buck is good. She will wag and run from the buck but she has never had any discharge and no swelling or pinkness in that area. The breeder asked a friend of mine last summer if this doe "ever cycled"? Am I sensing a red flag here? I have inspected her head and where the horns would be the fur looks to be like a "cowlick" as one person called it. Am I spinning my wheels on this goat? I have a small herd and limited space and in my book spend a lot of money for this goat. I am thinking about getting her ultra sounded in a couple of weeks. Some people have told me that a polled doe can be sterile. Is this true?


I thought I'd share this page I read before...

http://lzrdslomah.com/polled-genetics.php


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## cybercat (Oct 18, 2007)

Being sterile has nothing to do with being polled. Any doe can be sterile. In cows we call them freemartians. These are twins born and doe is sterile. Happens alot.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Riggers (Dec 11, 2013)

Actually from what I read it does have a correlation...


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## Dorioakes (Nov 13, 2013)

Riggers said:


> Actually from what I read it does have a correlation...


Cite your source.

The oposite has proved true in my experience. I have had many horned goats that were steril. 
And According to a number of studies Polledness increases productivity. http://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(80)83136-5/abstract
Dori


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## Riggers (Dec 11, 2013)

http://lzrdslomah.com/polled-genetics.php


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Riggers said:


> Actually from what I read it does have a correlation...


I have 2 does that are polled and 1 buck, and none are sterile.


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## Riggers (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm not saying that if you have polled goats you will have sterility, I'm just saying that genetically speaking there is a reason why people hear that rumor. There is a correlation. Sterility, as with all things, is generally genetic in nature and as such can be traced. There seems to be a connection between sterility in goats and polled goats. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean horns can cause so many such bad things, sterility I think is less bad than having to disbud them. And as such would lessen the risk I cook my poor babies brains or burn myself or them in some off location or the risk of infection, tetanus, etc.. which seems can happen during disbudding. So all in all I'd much rather have a random sterile goat (albeit it seems the odds are VERY low) than have to go through the rest of the hubbub.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

From what I read there is a single study that shows correlation between polled and sterile goats, and there's some question as to its validity.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Riggers said:


> I'm not saying that if you have polled goats you will have sterility, I'm just saying that genetically speaking there is a reason why people hear that rumor. There is a correlation. Sterility, as with all things, is generally genetic in nature and as such can be traced. There seems to be a connection between sterility in goats and polled goats. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean horns can cause so many such bad things, sterility I think is less bad than having to disbud them. And as such would lessen the risk I cook my poor babies brains or burn myself or them in some off location or the risk of infection, tetanus, etc.. which seems can happen during disbudding. So all in all I'd much rather have a random sterile goat (albeit it seems the odds are VERY low) than have to go through the rest of the hubbub.


I will just agree to disagree on this. I don't see how there are many polled goats around if this was the case. I know of un polled goats that are unable to breed as well, so I honestly do not believe there is a case here. I'm honestly looking for more polled goats.


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## Riggers (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm not suggesting you should not look for polled goats. I am as well looking for polled goats. I am just saying what the source said, and others here have said it as well. It was a post here that led me to go looking for more information on that. It may be based on faulty evidence, I'm not sure.... I just know what I read. As someone else said it was just one study that I found, and I don't know the validity of the study parameters.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm not suggesting that you are telling me not to look for polled goats, but I'm just saying polled and un polled goats some are sterile and some are not, meaning I seriously doubt the validity of the study, because if that were the case there would be no more polled goats.....therefore IMO this is a rather pointless debate;-)


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

My slim understanding is it is the breeding of polled to polled that increases the chance of sterility and hermies ... Just what I read some wear


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

There is a source that did a study on polled goats, claiming there is a higher probability of getting hermaphrodites from polled individuals and breeding polled to polled. Is that study accurate? Well...many are skeptical. I'd like to know if the same study was done on horned hermaphrodites and how many different breeds were used, how many different bloodlines, etc. I do believe that there are some bloodlines that have a higher probability of having hermaphrodites and I'm not so sure it has anything to do with being polled. It's a controversial topic because many have been breeding polled to polled for years and generations without getting a hermaphrodite and then others are getting hermaphrodites from their horned goats so...


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## cybercat (Oct 18, 2007)

OK for those interested in the truth look up Polled Goats on Yahoo groups or Face Book.

The truth is polled is dominate gene. Polled breeding do have more kids. Horned is a recessive gene. False rumor hermies come from polled breeding. Truth is they are more common in horned to horn breeding. Sterile goats and hermie goats are found in all types of breedings of goats. They are a fact of nature and my theory is a mutant gene that pops up sometimes.

The fact is when something pops up like sterility people look for a main cause. Sometimes there is not one. Stuff happens. But someone somewhere started a rumor that said it was polled to polled breeding that caused it. There is no truth to this at all. Makes me wonder if it was not the people that make the irons for dehorning that started to sell more product. It has happened before and will happen again. Do your own research and talk with breeders of polled animals. Learn the real truth.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm very much into breeding for polled, I have bred polled to polled and have not yet had any issues as far as reproductive health and even a "surprise" as I've had horned kids result from a polled/polled breeding 

It's a conscientous effort of those who breed polled goats to note when an abnormality happens so it can be proved or disproved that it was result of a polled breeding


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Well I think it's like a lot of things.... Not enough resources or reason to do a large costly well rounded non biased effective study To prove one way or another, and the only thing we can say for sure is personal experience and observation which is worth it's weight in gold!!!
And luckily we can share our knowledge or lack there of here- with our goatie friends


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I believe the study came up with something like a 1/8 chance of hermaphrodite with at least one polled parent, so even if it were true there would be plenty of polled, fertile goats. They did compare to horned goats but I believe the complaints about the study were that they used a small population with fairly close bloodlines.


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