# So torn on what to do!



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

OMGoodness you guys, I know you will understand my frustration!

I'll try not to write a book (sorry bound to happen lol)

We have twin yearling bucks, and will possibly be breeding 10-11 does from fall through early next year, spacing them out. This is the most we've ever bred in a year as we have a small place/small setup.
I planned to confirm pregnancy and sell both bucks.

But now we're considering selling 1 buck, and bringing in a new young buck.
Reasoning is, the bucks are considered show correct, but they are not perfectly teated, while our does are clean 1x1, 2x2 and one does have a split, we're seeing a few kids with teat structures that ideally I'd like to clean up.

We breed so my kids can have babies to show in the summer, keep some, sell some. With most county fair shows cancelled or postponing until late summer/fall, we felt it was pointless to keep our January buck kids since we can't use them for breeding, so that's when we thought well... let's sell these guys and buy a new young buck that can cover a few does this fall/winter, and after we buy we can sell my daughter's yearling, and put the young buck next to my son's buck so he doesn't get lonely.
So that's been the plan.

Then we pull the bucks out this evening to trim feet, and I just start doubting myself again. Structurally and size wise, I think they are very nice bucks. They have solid pedigrees, and their sire is the type that has kids sell for $2500 and up (one sold at a sale the other day for $5500). A full sister gained a lot of show points, was flushed, then sold for over $3500.

About 2-3 weeks ago my daughters buck weighed in at 301lbs, and my son's buck weighed in at 280lbs. They are good boys.

So here's the other complicated part. We're helping host and showing at ABGA show end of July (2 open ABGA & 1 JABGA). We planned to show these guys at that show if we have room on the trailer. My kids have a couple of yearlings, January does, and possibly a mom with 2 babies they can take (or 2 moms each with 2 babies lol). We just don't know yet what we'll do on that part since the babies are 2-3 weeks old - they are show correct, but 1 mom isn't really a show goat, just going for her babies, and the other needs tail pigment (she had crazy long tail hair that I shaved off lol) - so yeah, just don't know yet on that part.

If space happens, and these were your bucks... would you...
1. Keep them both and show them, then sell 1 and buy a new young buck
2. Keep them both, show them, gamble repeat teat issue on the same does and then sell after confirmed pregnancy
3. Buy young buck, sell 1 buck, and take young buck & 1 yearling buck to the show if we find a young buck by then?
4. Are you as confused as me? (lol)
5. Other suggestions ?

If you've seen my post a while back on photo section you may have seen some of these pics.

This is my son's buck from a few weeks ago (we gave him a bath he was so clean lol)


















Lousy wide angle cell phone pic tonight - shed out a lot of the winter fluff, that's all butt. He LOVES my son (who is around 6' tall).









This is my daughters buck = he is harder to handle with these kind of halters, he gets nervous which makes him head strong. 



























This evening... 
Sorry terrible wide angle cell phone pic









But... here's a super quick video that I told my daughter I was going to post lol!!!
She is 13 and he is 300lbs+ lol. the halter is a huge improvement, the halters in the above pics give us less control with him, but this show halter we ordered from my friend at 
Bling in the Ring on Facebook works really well at controlling him.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

They are very handsome. Sorry I can't give you much of an opinion. But if your really looking for improvements then a new buck might be a better choice if he has the qualities you are looking for


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

If I were you, I would go with option 3. IMO, having twin brothers can be limiting. I think new blood could be extremely beneficial if you find something that could take you to the next level.

Both boys are fantastic! If I had to choose between the two, I’d pick your daughter’s buck to keep.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well If this was me I would sell 1 and look for a new buck. But I do know a big part of having the goats for you in general is for the kids to show them. Maybe I’m going to throw option 4 in there for you, but do you NEED to sell one before you buy another one? No judgment I need the funds of a sale before I can replace. What if you look and buy the new buck before you put one up for sale? That way if you don’t find one to replace that your super in love with the kids still have one each to show. 
From just the breeding side of things though I would defiantly go with selling one. Your basically feeding two, very large boys at that, for the new lines of 1.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I hope you find a solution you are happy with!

Obviously they are super gorgeous. For me, I just don't tolerate the teat structures that are on that ABGA chart. 

I used to run multiple bucks but have been much happier the past few years just running one breeding buck, it's unneccessary for small herds like yours & mine, we have similar numbers of breeding does. I don't have any input on the show side though but I thought you had mentioned your son was becoming less passionate about it. 

I guess if it were me, I would hang on to them for the next 8-9 weeks, show them both, and ideally sell them from the show! Advertise them the week before and in any show correspondence if possible. Then purchase one new buck with teat structure genetics you need before breeding season hits for you. No need to rush to find & show the new buck.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, twin brothers, 1 needs to go, then buy a new buck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much for your opinions I appreciate it! 
I'm starting to look for a new, young buck. Shopping is so frustrating, because it's hard to tell from a picture, or what I like is just out of the budget range (lol) or.... too far away. I'm hoping we do find something in the next few weeks. 

I definitely agree, we're feeding 2 bucks for 1 genetic line. We just really thought we'd have some shows to take them to and make it worth keeping them. I was kind of hoping to see what judges would say about them both to help us decide who to keep. Summer showing is definitely a goal for us. It keeps us busy, gives us something to look forward to and something for the kids to work towards. My son says he isn't into it as much, but then he takes a big interest - especially last weekend when we went to a goat sale and he was all about inspecting and telling me bid, not to bid, etc. lol My daughter honestly doesn't know what she is shopping for, so when we bought her a new doe it was a group effort. So I do want to try and keep him involved as much as I can. I think we may end up selling 1 of his does and letting him get a new show doe that he can show later this summer/fall and use for breeding. He has a 4 month old doe and 2 week old doe. Not sure his 2yo doe will have tail pigment for the show in July (holds tail down and had super crazy long hair - I shaved it short, so we'll see lol). I'm okay if he isn't involved 100% just so long as he is involved while he is living here at home. I know he loves the goats. 

I think I am leaning towards selling Scat. I do agree, it's best to keep the calmer, easier to keep buck. He also has more build to him. 

Pam - I saw you were interested in a red buck, I inquired about him too lol! But he is out of our budget, I am just not willing to pay that much for a buck, but he is a handsome boy. My husband really wants a traditional buck. I just want a nice structured buck, but not wanting dappled - red, red paint would be okay. I honestly must be on a red goat kick, because I love his red doe kids for sale lol


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Just a idea. If your Son is getting less interested. I would sell his buck. Could you breed a couple of your does to a relly nice new buck? Example.. If you have 8 does. Breed 2 to a fantastic buck, like a big red one, breed 2 to a second fantastic buck, then let your buck have the remainig 4. Theirs a good chance 4 in fact. You could have a great buckling from the new blood. And you wouldnt have to purchase a buck. You would raise it, to your standards and safety requirements.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I hear you. I really do detest buck shopping. It’s always so frustrating. That’s why I have more then I technically need. That way I can slowly keep my eye out for the perfect one, not searching day and night, not wanting to settle or kick myself because a better deal came along. I am probably the worse buck shopper there is lol


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I agree on buck shopping being difficult! We’ve bought so many disappointments in the past (even from big, popular breeders) that it just turns my stomach thinking about it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have been disappointed as well with some buck purchases.

I know how you feel, I am buck shopping now. (doh):imok::hide:


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hey..Ive got 27 bucks on my property right now! Now 2 Breeding Bucks. But the others dont know that. And I DO NOT have any you would be interested in. My crosses are all bucks..and they are for sale. 
But one good thing about not enough money for big bucks..
You dont shop. Lol lol


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Moers - Thanks  Wow 27 bucks? Whew! We have a little over 2 acres, it's a lot of work trying to keep up with everything on a small place. 
Honestly, the original plan was to breed all but 2 does to these bucks then send the other 2 to outside bucks. That's still a possibility. I have a friend with an outstanding JR. buck that we'd definitely consider.

I think my son has agreed on selling Scat. He is a good boy, he loves my son and is best behaved for him - my husband led him today to be weighed and he was so naughty, he loves to give my husband a hard time (lol). Superior is good, but once you head back towards the barn, he'll try to drag you to get back 'home' haha. He weighs 307.6lbs and Scat weighs 285.2lbs, so they've both put on a little bit of weight since we last weighed them. 

YES shopping can be a pain! I definitely don't want to be disappointed. So far, I have been happy with every buck purchase we have made. Only 1 did we buy without seeing first hand, and we bought from trusted individuals. We drove 4 hours to go pick up these guys. The breeder had put up a good video of them vs. fluffed/washed/staged photos. I just saw something in them that said they would be nice bucks from the video.
I have been looking through the Facebook groups and have yet to find anything in the age group we are wanting, or price range ---- or something close enough we can go see. We won't buy without inspecting. So I admit, I have been a bit stressed out, as I'd sure love to find something we can afford that the kids could possibly take to some shows later on. I see some in OK, but I can't do the drive to go check them out  Maybe if my truck wasn't a dinasaur we'd be up for a road trip!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> I have been disappointed as well with some buck purchases.
> 
> I know how you feel, I am buck shopping now. (doh):imok::hide:


It's frustrating for sure! When we bought our current bucks, we started shopping in late January of last year, and I was fortunate after days and days of looking to find them posted in a FB group. I remember it was about 1-2am and I messaged the seller wanting info. Couldn't decide between the 2 and needed to send deposit, so we just sent deposit for both lol. The price was very reasonable for them, and we've enjoyed having them.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hey..Im in Okla. What area? Maybe I could help.you out. Let me know!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Hey..Im in Okla. What area? Maybe I could help.you out. Let me know!


Thanks for the offer! I honestly am not sure, but my kids, hubby and I decided we need to go inspect before we buy to make sure it's what the kids want - seeing how they act around people, etc. We want something that we can easily handle and hopefully not worry about it being wild -- mean.
I honestly wish I'd known we were going to look for a buck months ago, I feel it's easier to find one earlier in the year when people are selling off their fall kids. We're looking for something late fall or early winter - about the same age as the boys we have. 
I forgot to mention we currently have 10 does but may be selling 1. So 9-10 of breeding age and we'll space out kiddings like we did this year most likely some in January, some in May. We'll decide on when to breed once we hear about our state fair. Currently waiting to see if we'll even have a state fair or ABGA show. Although the state fair is fighting for it and I'm so proud of them! They said 'if Churchill Downs can hold the KY Derby on Sept 5th, then they can have a modified, traditional state fair in late August.'

IF they announce state fair is cancelled, or no ABGA show we may just breed most everything to Superior, and send 2-3 does to outside bucks. Then buy a new buck early next year like we'd planned to do. slowly trying to figure out our options.
At the same time though.. my neighbor has a few does and they want to breed to a buck vs. buy 1 this year, so I was thinking we could share a new buck (wouldn't charge them - they are dear friends like family). But... they want color. My husband wants traditional or maybe even a solid red.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I personally think it would be a good idea to plan on breeding all but those 2-3 to Superior. That way, you don’t have to stress yourself out. Your perfect buck will show his face eventually!

Maybe good compromise on color would be a paint? They’re quite popular, and you can still get your traditionals, solids, and paints even when breeding to traditional does.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have also had good luck buying bucks, well except for the one I only got 2 years of kids out of before he croaked on me. I did later on find out that the breeder was not truthful in their management and worked him once a month. So poor dude got his first real load of worms, and barberpole at that and had the scours one day and dead the next. Anyways I can’t really complain though, I’m just a nut case when I feel I HAVE to get something NOW. It’s a huge investment and bucks are so important I want to make sure I get the best I can afford. Does are easy lol I could buy does all day long  
But I do agree with salteylove though, you have a small enough herd you don’t NEED a second buck right this moment. So I say just take your time and try to enjoy shopping


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much you guys are awesome  I won't get my hopes up yet, but we found a young buck we are interested in, just waiting on some more info but it looks like we're possibly going to get him. I'll know tomorrow. If so, he'll be a fun addition! Hopefully we can breed some does to him later in the fall for spring babies. 
We don't allow our bucks to run with our does. We bring the does to the bucks so we know who is being bred and when, and we can space them out. We don't want our bucks to be alone, and Superior won't handle being alone well. So when we bring in a new buck, we'll reconfigure things - divide the buck shelter in half so the young buck can stay on the other side - with my daughters 4-H wether. Breeding season, we can move the young buck away so he isn't around Superior while he is breeding. 
So I hope this will work.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

I get that shopping can be annoying! I was recently shopping for a buck, and NONE of the pics were good, and I was about to give up! LOL! Luckily, I found one!
Note to self: Get good pics of kids being set up correctly, instead of standing in a field with another goat blocking half of the goat you are trying to sell so you don't annoy the living crap out of some poor goat shopper! HAHA


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> I get that shopping can be annoying! I was recently shopping for a buck, and NONE of the pics were good, and I was about to give up! LOL! Luckily, I found one!
> Note to self: Get good pics of kids being set up correctly, instead of standing in a field with another goat blocking half of the goat you are trying to sell so you don't annoy the living crap out of some poor goat shopper! HAHA


Oh gosh, I totally agree! There are some I am like...what?

This is one we sold a couple of weeks ago, so proud of this guy he was super sweet, beautiful and first time on a show collar and he was so good!
This is Scat's youngest January buckling.









This is Scat's oldest son - he wasn't as interested in standing for a photo, he wanted to explore the back yard. It was getting ready to monsoon rain, so we only had about 3 minutes to grab pics!









Random in his pen - he left Sunday for his new home. Miss this silly guy.









This is Superior's only Fullblood January buck, sale pending. This is 'my' baby, this guy owns a big piece of my heart out. It's going to be hard when we say goodbye. 









So I usually try to get pics like that when I am listing one for sale. Sometimes out in the pen works, but they are usually ignoring me, eating, have photo bombers or standing funny.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Looooove that caped buck!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

All very nice bucklings! Im so glad you found a youngster. I hope all of this works out for you!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thank You! CountyLineAcres - he is such a nice buck! It broke my daughter's heart to sell him and never get to show him. She showed his brother last year (different sire), he was a neat paint, and was very competitive at the shows, so she was excited to see what this guy could do. 

We're hoping to go pick up a young buck on Saturday, fingers crossed all works out! I'm super worried about all of the protesting/riots going on and hearing about people dropping bricks from overpasses on the interstates - could just be rumor, but scary enough. We'll be driving a few hours and going through Cincinnati. 
My husband isn't on the same page because this would be our most expensive purchase. But if he is as nice as he seems in the pics/video and lives up to his pedigree he'll be a neat addition! Being a paint, and breeding him later this year to a red, paint, and a traditional w/red heat and some spots (by a dappled buck)… it's fun to think of the possibilities. My husband likes traditional colored bucks, so the idea of a paint and the price combined...lol
I should start a protest in my house 'Paint goats matter!' lol. We did that at a show years ago, kind of funny... judge placed all traditionals at the front and reds at the back. A friend made the comment 'Red goats matter!' …. good times!


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Aha! So you did listen to my suggestion of a paint! Lol jk. That’s awesome! Cannot wait to see what you bought. He is probably phenomenal knowing how nice your stock is.

Paints are my absolute favorite! I can’t get enough of them. I can’t wait until those judges finally except that a colored buck can surpass traditionals lol. They’ve improved tremendously over the years!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats on the new buck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

CountyLineAcres said:


> Aha! So you did listen to my suggestion of a paint! Lol jk. That's awesome! Cannot wait to see what you bought. He is probably phenomenal knowing how nice your stock is.
> 
> Paints are my absolute favorite! I can't get enough of them. I can't wait until those judges finally except that a colored buck can surpass traditionals lol. They've improved tremendously over the years!


Thanks I appreciate it! LOL on the paint buck part! I definitely wasn't ruling them out if they were nice. Hubby likes traditional, but I think I'm finally convincing him that this guy may be a nice step up (fingers crossed!). Should be fun breeding some of the does later this year! 
We had no plans to get into color honestly, so it's funny that we're getting into red's and paints! 
I do think there are some lovely colored bucks and does out there that can out do a traditional. I think colored goats, especially dapples/black are the new 'American Boer Goat' and nothing wrong with that - we should have our own standards for them. Just like SA has their own standards for theirs.


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