# Getting into the Boer market



## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Hello all, this is my first post. After years in the horse business, my husband and I have decided to get into the Boer goat business. I hate to admit but I'm just tired of the horse scene and all that goes with it. 

Over the last couple months I've been doing a lot of research on Boer goats, pedigrees, conformation, teats (I never knew THAT would be an issue with goats!), 4H/FFA (our son recently joined both and will be showing a market whether), etc. I had planned on being good and not buying anything just yet. Well....you know how that goes. 

This morning I swung into our feed store to grab some feed since I've been trying to get there all week and now the feed room is empty. What is in a pen in front of the store but a nice Boer x doe and 2 kids about a week old.  I tried to stay strong and resist but I've learned there's no resisting goat kids. So I just asked how much for the trio thinking it would be ridiculous and I'd stick with my plan. Nope, damn price was too good to refuse on a proven doe with twins and a good milker. Damn it! Have I mentioned I haven't told the hubs yet?  Looks like I'm in the goat business! 

So, my question is what preventative medicine treatments should I do for this doe and her kids? Deworm? Vaccines? 1 kid is a doe and the other a buckling. I plan on keeping the doe to produce 50% Boers and selling the buckling. I think the timing is off to sell for a market show so I guess he'll be a cabrito. Any advice? I'm currently working out a deal to complete our little start up herd with 2 more registered does and a yearling buck.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

When I started with goats cdt vac. was the one thing that was stressed to me. I know you guys are going to shake your head at me lol, but witht the vets charging so much for a fecal I worm when I think they need it other then when I first bring them home, they will be wormed before they step out of the trailer, and after kidding. The way I look at it, and it might not be the right way but works for me, is going to a new home, and kidding are the two most stressful things and the worms can take over. The kids are to young in my book, I dont worm kids till they are about a month old if not older. 
Ohhh and congrats on being a goat owner. I just got a cook book and it say 70% of the meat consumed in the world is goat so you did good lol


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Do you know anything about her pedigree or percentage of boer? And are the kids out of a boer buck? You should post some pictures of your new babies! Would love to see them


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Unfortunately all I know is that she came from a sale with the kids on her side. She's a traditional boer and her kids seem to be as well. For all I know she may be 100% but since she came from a sale there are no papers on her. I will post pictures as soon as I take some. I didn't take any while I was there as I was trying to talk myself out of it and didn't "purchase" until I got to work and called the store owner. I was kind of hopeing someone would swoop in and get them before I called.  This is probably good though. I'm going to horse sale this weekend for some clients and would have probably come home with a new horse. Now I won't!

I did look at her teat structure and she is 1x1 with a split teat. Nice big bag too.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

How old does she look? Its pretty easy to tell by the length of her horns. What gender are the kiddos? Would be lucky if you got two does! Before you do anything, i would give her some wormer. Id suggest not using 'goat' wormer, as they dont seem as affective. WE use ivermectin.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Welcome Ponder, from up near Seattle!
Yes I would say worm that doe now & ten days later if you use Ivermec. We dont worm kids here till they're 4-5 mos but you can do them a little sooner.
Mom should get her CDT, you give the booster 21 days later.
Check for lumps under both armpits. If she has one on each side she wont need it.
And please DO post pics we'd love to see them!


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome! So wormer (ivermectin) paste or injectable? I'll check her for CDT lumps. Pictures as soon as I can.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

To be honest, we give the injectable orally, and it works well for us. Cydectin works wonders as well.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> To be honest, we give the injectable orally, and it works well for us. Cydectin works wonders as well.


Yep, same here, injectable done orally.

You can give horse wormers to goats. Someone can give you the dosage Ive never used it.
It will sound like an awful lot but goat metabolism is pretty high.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

What wormer do you use on your horses? Does it work?

I would hold off buying anything else for a couple of weeks and see how
these sale goats do. Also, since you are starting out with a small herd,
consider holding off buying a buck. They can be tougher to manage in a
fence that hasn't seen goats yet. Also you might want to learn some more
before you buy the goat that will make up 50% of the genetics of your
future kids. You can sometimes borrow or rent a buck from somebody else
or buy does already bred. 

I like your scenario of starting with a doe with kids. They should settle in
good since they are together. 

Since you don't know the vaccination schedule of the doe, I would give her
a CDT vacc. now and again in three weeks. I would vaccinate the kids with
CDT at like one month, two months and three months since you don't know
if the mother passed on any immunity in her colostrum.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww Welcome! You really need to get pics of your new mama and her babies  
What kind of horses do you have/do business with? 
For worming, it might depend on what you are dealing with. Equimax is good stuff where I am at in Central KY <horse country  >.
We typically deal with something similar to strongyles, in every fecal I've ever run, if there was a worm, it was a strongyle type of worm.
The vet told us to start using Cydectin, and that's what most people around here use.
Of course it didn't kill round worms, and guess what? We dealt with round worm this summer! So we wormed everyone with Equimax to take care of that issue.

If it were me I'd go with a horse wormer <except safeguard unless you think your dealing with tapeworm>.
If you give Ivermectin or Equimax pastes make sure you triple the dose. If it's a 100lb. goat then you'd treat it like a 300lb. horse.
Don't underdose, you can make the worms resistant.
Quest Plus is really great stuff too, we've used it successfully and occassionally switch off using it. If you give Quest Plus, you'd want to double the dose, so a 100lb. goat would be treated like a 200lb. horse.
But I've heard it's not safe to give Quest Plus to pregnant does. However, we gave it to one of ours, didn't think she was pregnant, and 4 months later she delivered healthy triplets.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh wow.. you are on a very steep but fun learning curve and you will learn super quick as you have come to the right place and already have an advantage of horse breeding.. 
For first time goat people.. especially the bigger breeds... start small .. start healthy with good registered stock. It's always better to pay the extra money for a good buck.- and you won't regret doing so. You have more knowledge than most beginners as you have done horses. You will also fall in love with the Boers. I think 4H is a good target and so many are always looking for 4H goats in our area.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Thank you all for the warm welcome! We raise and show American Shetland Ponies professionally. But lately, it just isn't fun any more so I've been looking for something that wasn't as stressful and didn't involve showing for someone else. I haven't shown anything for me in a long time and it wears on ya. So....when our son said he wanted to show a goat I started looking into them.

I went back by the feed store to check on the doe and kids. I got my hands on her (she's not wild, but not what I would call friendly). I don't think she's had any vaccines and she looked pale. She also developed some diarrhea which she didn't have that morning. Stress related I'm sure. He's got her on medicated feed for coccidiosis which is good and I'll admit to worrying about the kids even though they look great. Very bright and alert. This morning I stopped by again and everyone looks good. She still has diarrhea. Since she was so pale, I spoke with our vet and gave her a half dose of SQ ivermectin for now. We're worried about killing off too many worms too fast. Once I get her home, we'll run a fecal and get her on a deworming program.

Took a couple pics last night and this is the best one:


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Welcome, I think you'll find this is a GREAT bunch of people. I previously had goats, and have been able to start again. I then found this site in the spring and it's been a life saver! So again, welcome!! Some where on here is the teeth chart, I personally find it easier to use then gauging on horns (particularly if they've been de-horned). You could also check her ears for a tattoo (which may be faded) to see if you are able to track down any information on her. Just a thought.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Welcome,:wave: Aww, they are so cute.

Welcome, to the world of boers.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Way to go.
You are on the right track. Figure out the worming thing and keep her on a medicated goat feed (look for rumensin) and she will be a different goat before long. I've never heard of anyone killing one with ivermectin and a lot of people are against underdosing wormer, but since you are going to get a fecal, you will hopefully figure out how to get her cleared up. She doesn't look all that bad. That she had two babies and everybody lived is a good sign right there.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

She looks like a cross and to me not that old, If I were to guess with out looking at the teeth I would say about 2 or 3. A article I read says that when the poop sticks to the goat like hers is its a sign of needing to be wormed. By the one hoof I can see it looks like her feet need to be trimmed. Other then that, get a little more weight on her and she will look great (not that she looks all that bad right now). She looks like a good mom to me and the kids look healthy.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks! The more I thought about her and her kids, the stress they've been through in the last week, and all of the goat issues I'm not 100% comfortable with yet, the more stressed out I got. Felt better this morning when I went to check on them but then I started thinking about incubation periods.......at least there are no other goats at home at this point so if they do break with something I don't have an entire herd of goats at risk. When I finally got brave enough to tell the hubs that I started our goat herd he wasn't really impressed. But for the reasons stated above (2 twins alive, seemingly healthy at the moment, and a good milker with good/acceptable teat structure), I thought she was a good buy. Now if I can just get her home into a stall and get the right feed into her. I've always been impressed with how I can turn an unconditioned horse around so I'm eager to see how good I am at conditioning goats. Haven't checked her ears for any tattoos yet, but I will. She had no ear tags. 

I'm about to order a vial of CDT vaccine but what about CL?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I would have her blood tested for CAE, CL, and JOHNES. Those are the scariest contagious diseases. I would test them and watch them for a while before you add more goats. :thumb:


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Very cute! That momma looks about a year and a half old to me. Just a baby herself. By looking at the kid's faces, id say theyre easily 50% crossbred. Very cute though, and i think if the momma put on some weight, she'd make a pretty little doe.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Welcome to TGS :grouphug:. 

You probably have most of the basic equipment and knowledge from your horse experience. 

The general rule is not to under dose. Can create resistant parasites.

Orally dosing with inject-able de-wormers is fine, until it is not. There are stories/rumors of animals dropping dead in there tracks afterwards. I have no personnel evidence of this occurring. That being said I have been dosing everything orally. But, I search on this site to see what has worked for others or I ask.

CD-T has been mentioned. I learned, on this forum, to use Colorado Serum brand. It doesn't leave lumps, if you do it right. That has been my experience so far. 

A lot of information on this site and friendly people with great advice. 

Clean this goat up and get her going good. Raise those kids off. This should get your feet wet. 

:kidblack::kidblack::kidblack:


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I would look into treating for coccidiosis with our younger two. And a wormer for the doe. Or do fecals. 
We use quest Plus for horses or equimax for horses. it works well. It is more expensive per dose, but if you just have a couple goats it is cheaper than buying a bottle for cattle. Both of these wormers also contain praziquental, it is a good wormer for tapworms. The product Quest for horses(not the plus) does not treat tapeworms. 

I use it at 2 x the dosage for a horse. Do not under estimate the weight of your goats. Weigh your goats if you can. 

Normally, for young kids we just treat for coccidiosis until they are 2 or 3 months old. 

Since you don't know their history, I would give them a CD&T vaccination know and again in 3 weeks, according the label on the bottle.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

We picked up the doe and her kids this afternoon. Her stool has firmed up and everyone appears to be doing well. I sat in their stall for about half an hour today just watching everyone. The doeling seems to be in better condition than the buckling and I noticed the doe would kick the buckling off the teat if he was alone. If he was with his sister, she would allow it. I watched him try to nurse several times before I finally went in and restrained the doe. Once restrained, she would allow him to nurse as long as I held her. The doe is thin so I'm interested to see if she builds mass with better care.

Vaccines, dewormers, and some other goat supplies have been ordered and should arrive tomorrow. They are on a feed that contains meds for coccidia and I'll treat them for coccidia as soon as my supplies arrive.

One question I do have is based on breed standards and market show wethers. The breed standards state that there must be at least 50% pigmentation on the underside of the tail for show purposes. The doe has no pigmentation nor do her kids.  But does that apply to 4H/FFA wethers as well? Depending on how this buckling matures in the next couple of months, he'll be the right age for our son's first 4H wether for the county fair.









Buckling









Doeling


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh and based on her teeth, she's a yearling.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Poor gal is somewhat underconditioned right now, having been bred too young; possible worm load.
So glad you have her, Im sure you'll have her in good condition soon.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I sort of doubt pigment is a concern for 4H market wethers. Others will probably comment.
There are rules some places about horns though. Might want to check into that.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Pigment does not matter for market wethers. Your kids are having a little bit of a hard time, because it doesn't appear the doe is in good enough condition to be producing enoough milk for both of them. Yearling boers can have a hard time anyway and with her being underconition that isn't helping her any. Just keep slowly increasing the quality of her feed and amount and get the kids on creep feed as soon as possible, build a little corner or area that they can only go into to get feed when ever they want. That will help them a lot.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Find out if your vet will sell you three dosages of BoSe for them. The kids look like they could use some.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

What is BoSe? The doe is already looking better to me and the kids are doing well for what they've been through. The little buckling has a little bit of a clear runny nose, but no coughing, sneezing, or difficulty breathing. They are getting a handful of hay as needed and a 2lb scoop of goat feed as needed as well. They eat but don't finish either in a 24 hour period. They also have access to a mineral block. I have Vit. B 12, as well as Di-Methox 40%, Quest Plus, and Covexin-8 on its way that should hopefully arrive today. Should I deworm for coccidia first or other parasites? I'm afraid to do both at the same time.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

BoSe is vitamin E & Selenium, Vet Rx.
His left eye looks a little off, is it runny or crusty? If so, eye ointment or even a couple drops of Pen or La200 in it for a few days. (no needle of course)
A handul of hay isnt much, unless you're going out a half dozen times a day with some.
I'd cut back on the grain; adjust it to what they will eat in about a 20 minute span.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

when you say a handful of hay, are you saying you are giving mom and the kids a handful? She should be eating around 4 or 5 lbs of hay a day. If a bale of hay weighs 45 lbs, then she should be getting a small bale of hay every 8 or 9 days. Most small bales have 8 to 10 slabs or wedges in them, so she should be getting about a wedge/slab of hay a day. 
We give our yearlings around 1 to 1/2 lbs of grain, twice a day, when they are nursing their kids. 
If you don't want to worm and treat for coccidiosis at the same time, then worm them first, wait 24 hours and then do the 5 days of coccidiosis treatments. But honestly we worm and start cocci treatment on the same day and it has never been a problem.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Goats can't get enough from a mineral block. You give them free choice loose minerals.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

We're in TX so our hay bales weigh up to 70lbs of coastal grass. When I say handful, it's probably 1/4 of a flake. She doesn't finish it between feedings. I'll have to find a feed dealer that supplies loose minerals. She's getting 2lbs a day and doesn't finish what's provided. I'm sure her appetite isn't the best but that'll change following some B12. B12 is great for poor eaters. The reason I'm concerned about doing both dewormer and coccidia treatment on the same day is that a large parasite kill can cause hemorrhage (at least in horses). It can be deadly and since I'm not sure of her history and she's thin, I didn't want to overtax her system.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

If it were me? And take this with a grain of salt since I'm new to goats but not new to animal husbandry, I'd not do them at the same time.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

My mineral mix is 2 parts mineral with 1500 copper (cant remember the letters beside it lol) with 1 part DE an 1 part salt. I throw in a small handfull of bakin soda. I do my like cows the more salt you add the less mineral they eat the less salt you add the more mineral they eat. By addin less salt they will eat more of the mixture to get the amount of salt they are wanting. Add more salt they eat less of the mixture cause they get the salt they need faster. (if that makes sense at all) I know it works on cattle an it seems to work on goats. So loose is the key. I also offer my goats a 20% protein block. Its very soft crumbles in your hands. They eat one of these every 2 to 3 weeks I have 14 goats eatin on it.

Whatever you do dont buy feed that says for sheep an goats. Or your mineral that says the samething.

(that might have already been mentioned but its something very important to keep in mind)


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Ponder said:


> We're in TX so our hay bales weigh up to 70lbs of coastal grass. When I say handful, it's probably 1/4 of a flake. She doesn't finish it between feedings. I'll have to find a feed dealer that supplies loose minerals. She's getting 2lbs a day and doesn't finish what's provided. I'm sure her appetite isn't the best but that'll change following some B12. B12 is great for poor eaters. The reason I'm concerned about doing both dewormer and coccidia treatment on the same day is that a large parasite kill can cause hemorrhage (at least in horses). It can be deadly and since I'm not sure of her history and she's thin, I didn't want to overtax her system.


If you are concerned about bleedout, giving her a really strong wormer such as quest Plus right away, will end up being the problem and not The sulfa-di and quest at the same time. Coccidiosis don't work that way, so you wouldn't get bleedout from it. However, Quest plus is a very strong wormer, and I have had bleedout from using such a strong wormer. Not sure if you have Safegaurd, but perhaps you would be better off to worm the doe and kids 3 to 5 days in a row with safegaurd and the sulfa-dimethoxine at the same time, and then wait 10 days and worm with a stronger wormer like Quest plus.

Sounds like you know a lot about the care. and I am sure she will start doing better.


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## Ponder (Sep 26, 2012)

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice you've all given me! Mom and babies are doing great and they ate ALL of their morning grain today.  Vet supplies came in and I gave everyone a dose of Probios and dewormed the doe with the Quest plus. Should I deworm the kids or just treat them for coccidia? Will start that tomorrow with a dose of B12 for everyone.


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