# Culling a doe :(



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so torn on this. We raise boer/boer cross goats for our kids to show in 4-H. The does we keep are also generally our pets, we love them very much.
This year we just have too many goats, and have to downsize. We'd decided last fall we'd keep some until kidding/weaning then sell.

One of those does kidded about 6 weeks ago, and had a horrible delivery. Just bad luck. Huge single buck kid with his head turned down to his shoulder, and took us forever to find it, I was able to get him out, and he is a healthy, happy boy that we adore. However.... he has parrot mouth (strike #1). He was HUGE for a small framed doe, 15lbs @ 24hr old.
Second single for this doe (strike #2), although her doe last year is nice.

She is somewhat a hard keeper (strike #3). Tends to need worming a lot more than the others.

Right now she is skin and bones, rough coat, looks wormy and is anemic. I've wormed her 3x with strong doses of Cydectin (pour on, orally), given her a copper bolus, and given her a little pig iron off and on for the anemia. I plan on worming her with a strong dose of Ivermectin paste 10 days after last Cydectin. But after that I just can't put more $$ into her. I care about her very much, and it's hard for me to say that, but I can't do it. 
Her kid will be weaned in a few weeks, and she has to go. 
I want badly for her to have a 2nd chance, but I also don't want to advertise a sickly looking goat that will need to be nursed back to a good weight, or possibly be a hard keeper for someone else.

I really don't want to take her to auction either, but that may be what we have to do.  Ironically the auction I'd be comfortable taking her to that is fairly decent was 15 minutes away and burned to the ground the same day & time she was in labor! 

Again, just so torn on what to do. I don't want to sell someone a problem goat, but I also want her to be treated humanely. If she got a 2nd chance she'd need someone that knows about goats. I think she'll breed back, or would make a good weed eater. She's friendly, comes when called, loves treats (don't come out smelling like peanut butter and not offer her something!). Just a shame she's not an easier keeper.

I know, especially meat breeders understand where I am coming from. How do you deal with these type of does?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would also treat her for coccidia. The best you can do is get her looking as good as possible. You can always be a bit picky on who buys her. Be honest.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

She would be culled if she was here  I've had 2 I fought like heck to keep alive and keep looking decent and it's just not worth it. The one died on me, was so sad, and the other one I just couldn't take the bottle jaw and prolapse and having to help raise her kids. But buck I recently lost was kinda a problem child too, not as bad as the other two but same story he died in the end. That's when I decided no more. For me I would rather something of mine be butchered then end up in a bad home and I don't fool myself I know 99% of what I take to the sale end up with their life ending but I find it more comforting knowing no one will abuse them or if they keep being a problem someone gets ticked at me and bad mouths me. I know many people don't feel the same as I do about the butchering, I'm sure your kids will for sure not feel the same but it is what it is. 
I'm not really sure what to suggest here. If you keep her till she looks decent then it's taking money away from the other ones. I defiantly feel your pain of trying to look at things as a business and still love your animals as pets.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Gosh that's hard...I think most of my comments line up with what Jessica has said. I wouldn't feel right passing on a trouble goat to anyone (even as a pet). And I hate to think of them suffering. My inclination would be to take her to the auction as soon as her kids are weaned (with a note that says meat only?). You have put in plenty of time and effort to keep/get her healthy, why waste more?

And did I read that right, 25lbs at 24 hrs old? :-o That is HUGE!!!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

No advice here, but I feel your pain. I tend to hang onto the hard keepers because i feel sorry for them. Stupid me.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

It sounds like she would be on my cull list as well. I believe it's something like 20% of your herd carries 80% of the parasites, and by culling the 20% you are breeding better genetics for parasite resistant goats. 
Hard keepers can be due to parasites, low pecking order, slow eater, bad immune system, compromised rumen, teeth and the list goes on. 
If I know they can look good, and they have just hit a rough patch, I will hang onto them because I know they can look better. But if she has always been a hard keeper and always needs wormed, I would let her go.
Or, if the genetics are there and they just look gawky and weird then I hang onto them and keep a kid or two.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

and here the first single kid would have been a strike and the second one is time to go.........unless they are awesome kids that pay for that year of feed and money in my pocket but Ive only had 1 that has done that before


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Just a thought....why not have her processed and put meat in your own freezer? I would not sell her to anyone except for meat.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

We had a doe last year that we needed to cull for several reasons. It was a terrible feeling, but we decided to go the butcher route because I could not in good conscience pass her problems on to someone else and I could not bear the thought of her going onto one of those slaughterhouse trucks. She was a pet and a friend and I'd even spent time teaching her to do tricks. It was weird and sad to eat the meat at first, but eventually we got over it and decided that this was the happiest meat we could ever eat. She had a quick, clean end, and since we took her to a local butcher ourselves she never had to spend time on one of those awful trucks or in a crowded feedlot. So if you can get your doe healthy enough through the spring and get her past the withdrawal times on your wormers and medications, I think you should consider the possibility of butchering for your own freezer.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.

I know it is hard.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Sorry you're faced with this hard choice.

Last year was the first year I ate my own goat meat. It was hard even though they were 6 months old and not goats id bonded with ( on purpose).

But I know that they had a good life and that there're few good pet homes ( especially for a problem goat ). So this way I know they were happy, their lives ended swiftly and humanely, and they will never suffer.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Have to agree with what most others have said.
Last year I had to let Dotsie go and I absolutely loved her. She was sweet and very healthy. But, we do milk and meat. She only gave us a singleton two years in a row and though her milk was good and she was an easy milker she would only produce for about 6 months.
Our decision to butcher her for our own freezer was not that hard of a choice for us. The thought of palming her off on someone else (even if we were honest about it) or taking her to auction where we would have no idea how she was treated was just not acceptable. She was born here and we felt she had the right to die here. She had never known anywhere or anyone else.
Please believe I am speaking just for us. You will find your own path. It was _not_ easy but in our hearts was the right thing.


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## goatcreekfarm (Feb 27, 2016)

how old? skinny? not meaty? 

does anyone ever kill a goat and keep out for dog food? if there was one I didn't want to eat, cuz it's old or ugly or just can't bring myself to eat it, I'd use for dog food. and let them chew on a bone. freeze some. 


k


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

goatcreekfarm said:


> how old? skinny? not meaty?
> 
> does anyone ever kill a goat and keep out for dog food? if there was one I didn't want to eat, cuz it's old or ugly or just can't bring myself to eat it, I'd use for dog food. and let them chew on a bone. freeze some.
> 
> k


I have not honestly I can get more money for them at the sale then I would be saving on dog food but I have a good sale only a hour away and I could do my feed shopping on the way home. But if I didn't I probably would either eat it or feed to the dogs. 
We had a old OLD cow that broke her leg. She was tough so we made hamburger out of her and either seasoned the heck out of the meat and made tacos or anything to add better flavor to her or mixed with better hamburger


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Those old tough ones turn out really nice pressure canned into ready made stew meat. They turn out tender and juicy. We used to do up tough old grizzly bear that way :lol:


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Yes, we have. My son and dil have a Great Dane mix. She bought one that I absolutely could not keep and did not want to eat. She provided lots of good raw meat for Lillie plus bones to chew.
Pressure canning makes the oldest, toughest meat yummy!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You can't talk about eating grizzly bears around Californians lol  we will have to try the canning meat though. The steer we are getting ready to put in the freezer is giant and 3-4 years old and have been living on a mountain. We have gave up on gathering him and he's going in the freezer. I am really not looking forward to eating that to be honest.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

HoosierShadow said:


> Right now she is skin and bones, rough coat, looks wormy and is anemic. I've wormed her 3x with strong doses of Cydectin (pour on, orally), given her a copper bolus, and given her a little pig iron off and on for the anemia.


I dont know what pig iron is, but I would guess that the iron is not in a form that is easily asorbable.

When my doctor told me that I was anemic, he sent me to the pharmacy to get iron pills - could not keep them down. Started to look for alternatives and found that molasses is high in iron and is in a form easily asorbable by people and goats.

I changed to molasses (used organic blackstrapp molasses) and next time I went to have my iron levels check - the doctor said I was no longer anemic.

My mother had the same issues - became anemic. Used blackstrap molasses. Blood tests confirmed iron levels were back to normal.

So I know that using molasses works in treating iron deficiency.

I put together a mix that I use for my goats as vitamin mineral supplement along with being a preventative. I get all of the ingredients from my local store, mostly in the bulk section or produce, except for the diatomaceous earth and molasses which I get from the feed store. The rose hips I buy online.

Ingredients:
rose hips (1 lb pkg)
flax seed
nutritional yeast
garlic (1 bag of 9)
diatomacous earth (2 to 3 cups)
molasses

I grind up all of the ingredients and mix all together till I have a consistency that is spoonable. I give this to all of my goats once a day, a spoonful at a time. I start the kids on the mix but wait till they are around a month old with a very small amount.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Pig iron is simply injectable iron.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

If I had a goat like this that I didn't really want to sell, I'd have her put down at home then processed for consumption or else just buried. Once you sell something, its future is out of your hands. It may go to someone who'll give it a good forever home ... or it may be sold and sold and sold again. If she dies on your place you at least know it was a quick ending and won't forever be wondering if she's in a good home or not. 
Sorry you have this dilemma.
camooweal


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone, sorry I hadn't had a chance to get on a post a reply sooner. I did read everyone's posts on my phone, but I prefer to type messages on my computer.

To add to the fact this doe is so thin, and not thriving/looking better, about a few days after I posted this here, I noticed a mass in front of her udder. Never noticed it before but it looks like a hernia  It feels like a hernia, sort of feels like there is some kind of rupture, but I didn't want to change hurting her in some way so I didn't want to poke/prod.

With her being extremely thin - what are the odds of selling her for meat? It's hard for us to put down an animal and bury it here (we try to do it only in emergency situation) as we don't have a lot of room for burial. If I could find someone wanting her for meat or for their animal, as long as they do it humanely.... 
I am sad about it, but I know it has to be done. We'll band her kid this weekend, he'll be 8 weeks old. Then most likely wait a few days and try to find a meat buyer.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I'm sorry  I wonder if that mass is the root of all of her issues
You have a good chance of selling her for meat. All of the used up thin dairy does that go threw the sale the butcher guy buys. You just might not get a very good price for her. But I'm like you I would rather something of mine go to some kind of use then just feed the wild animals or be placed in the ground.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh I'm sorry  I wonder if that mass is the root of all of her issues
> You have a good chance of selling her for meat. All of the used up thin dairy does that go threw the sale the butcher guy buys. You just might not get a very good price for her. But I'm like you I would rather something of mine go to some kind of use then just feed the wild animals or be placed in the ground.


Thanks, I appreciate your support on this ♥ It's been a crazy week with the goats - not complaining, I know everything will fall into place as it should be. 
A friend did give me a # for the guy that buys goats, so I am going to call him and see if he would want her. At this point anything we can get $$ wise would help pay for the other goats, and I've heard he treats them fare.

I definitely think the mass has something to do with what is going on with her. To me, it definitely feels like some kind of rupture/hernia. At first I thought it was a problem stemmed from her udder, but her udder has been fine. 
She grazes, and has a healthy appetite. I know nursing a 40+lb. kid is also taking it's toll on her. 
She is getting some grain morning and evening, has access to hay, but I won't give her anything else at this point as far as supplements/medications/etc. She's out of any withdrawal times now, so hopefully she won't need anything else.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh awesome you have someone's number! That makes it so much better then trying to find someone. What I always tell myself when I'm not overly happy with a price I get is 'it's one less mouth to feed'. When you look at it that way and how much money really goes into feeding one doe your getting more money then what is placed in your hand. Again I'm so sorry your going threw this. Livestock business really stinks at times :/


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Livestock business definitely can be hard, especially when they are like pets. She's a pain in the butt, but she is super friendly too. 
When she was a kid I remember her not being as thrifty as the others. Always wormy, and hard to put weight on. She did start to take off right before our state fair, and finished 3 of 6 in % class in the state ABGA show. But after that she just didn't grow well, no width to her and not a lot of capacity. 

I am going to give the person a call and see what they say. I agree, any kind of $$ at this point would help care for the others.


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