# Selenium oral or injection



## pelaya (Dec 13, 2014)

As a new goat owner I wanted to get the real scoop on Selenium supplementation. Does the oral supplement with vitamin E work just as well as the injection that you have to get from a vet? What is the best way to goats to receive this monthly supplement?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I always gave the gel before kidding (a month out) but still had a few kids born with weak back legs. Last year I changed to the shot and still had kids born with weak back legs. Actually there was more but I had triplets coming out of my ears. So I basically decided that there really wasn't much difference in my case so I would rather shove gel down them then add another shot. Now I do still have my bottle because giving a new born a shot is much more easy then trying to shove the gel down them but even then I'm so scared I'll give them to much so I don't do the full recommended dose. From my understanding the gel is less likely to OD as well so that's another point for the gel for me 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I have the same concerns/questions, but I am probably going to order the dry product from Caprine Supply. It's given free choice.

http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/...tId=4125126:Comment:138708&xg_source=activity

http://www.caprinesupply.com/products/health/nutritional-supplements/selenium-with-vitamin-e.html


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Sodium Selenate | A Toxic Ingredient Added to Many Products - 
Listing sodium selenate as a 'nutrient' on labels of mass-market products and vitamins is nonsensical to say the least. This 'nutrient' is classified as dangerous and toxic to the environment by the Environmental Protection Agency and the European Union, yet it still proudly stands as a primary ingredient in many products. If other similar 'ingredients' were to be placed next to sodium selenate on any label, you may expect to read "mercury" or "cadmium".

Sodium selenate can actually be naturally found in many foods such as brazil nuts, mustard seeds, and fresh produce. The toxicity problem arises when the 'nutrient' is isolated and separated from the other hundreds or thousands of known and unknown factors in food like enzymes, glyconutrients, minerals, etc. The selenium found within food have actually been shown to prevent disease, while the biologically inert forms used in products have the complete opposite effect on the body.

Why the toxic form of sodium selenate is allowed to be used at all is a mystery, but there is a good reason companies and manufacturers use it - it is cheap and inexpensive. While being proudly marketed on vitamin labels, sodium selenate has been shown to cause reproductive and developmental problems in both animals and humans

- See more at: http://naturalsociety.com/108-milli...a-nutrient-can-kill-you/#sthash.RmvkGvFy.dpuf


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I have never used the oral, BoSe has always been injected here; shortly before breeding & a week or two before kidding.
Kids don't get it unless it appears they need it however my mentor gives it to all newborns regardless.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

So.....I just looked up the ingredients in BO-SE and the form of selenium it contains is selenite just like the gel and the dry product.

Now, I do sometimes give my goats a Brazil nut or two - it is easy to buy here and I only have three small goats. However, I am concerned about them getting to much selenium that way too. They love the nuts so much, I'm sure they would OD if given free choice.

So maybe I will look into what a reasonable amount of average Brazil nuts for goats would be and go from there. IDK. :shrug:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=btnews&dbid=18

BO-SE: 
DESCRIPTION BO-SE (selenium, vitamin E) is an emulsion of selenium-tocopherol for the prevention and treatment of white muscle disease (Selenium-Tocopherol Deficiency) syndrome in calves, lambs, and ewes, and as an aid in the prevention and treatment of Selenium-Tocopherol Deficiency in sows and weanling pigs. Each mL contains: 2.19 mg sodium selenite (equivalent to 1 mg selenium), 50 mg (68 USP units) vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate), 250 mg polysorbate 80, 2% benzyl alcohol (preservative), water for injection q.s. Sodium hydroxide and/or hydrochloric acid may be added to adjust pH.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

BO-SE lasts in the system for approx 21 days per dose. 

Oral Selenium lasts usually less that 24 hours per dose.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The decision to use BoSe is dependent on your local selenium levels, of which Wa state is terribly deficient & all our hay is grown here on the eastern side.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There are better sources out there. This for instance, a starting dose for your tiny girls would be like 1/4 ounce once a week. The yeast is more of a whole food type supplement. It is in the mineral pac I use and I've been very happy with it. I do still have to use Bo.Se 3 times a year but, the yeast helps between shots.

http://www.horseguard.com/product/vitamin-e-organic-selenium/


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

goathiker said:


> There are better sources out there. This for instance, a starting dose for your tiny girls would be like 1/4 ounce once a week. The yeast is more of a whole food type supplement. It is in the mineral pac I use and I've been very happy with it. I do still have to use Bo.Se 3 times a year but, the yeast helps between shots.
> 
> http://www.horseguard.com/product/vitamin-e-organic-selenium/


That looks interesting. Thanks. Did you see the study about the effectiveness of Brazil nuts in raising selenium levels? That might help bridge the gap as well.

I ran across this discussion on a health web site ( chriskresser.com.)

"The book "The Life Bridge" discusses for example the difference between selenomethionine and organic yeast bound selenium. There is a HUGE difference. HUGE. Selenomethionine has almost no antioxidant activity whereas yeast bound has profound antioxidant activity. Also there are 8 forms of vitamin E, 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols, not just one form. Ignorant researchers do not bring this up sometimes (maybe because they just dont know) and make grossly wrong generalizations. I seriously doubt tocotrienols were used in any of these studies, although they are the most biologically active forms of vitamin E.

The point is that the form supplemented with MUST be taken into account. Of course too much selenium or vitamin e in any form is not healthy. But if you are going to supplement, use a natural whole food organically bound form. It not only will actually work for you but it will not be toxic and cause harm."


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

nancy d said:


> The decision to use BoSe is dependent on your local selenium levels, of which Wa state is terribly deficient & all our hay is grown here on the eastern side.


That's a really important consideration! Soil is deficient here too, but where are you located pelaya? Do you know for sure that your soil/feed is deficient? If it isn't you may not have to worry about supplementation.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Jill, how do you decide how often to give BO-SE, especially since you are giving a selenium supplement? Without actually testing the goats, I don't know how I would determine this.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Interesting topic. I used to use the monthly gel then last season got BoSe...I know my goats need it. I give my does a shot a few months before kidding and my bucks once out of rut...( because its known to slow the swimmers lol and they stink HA)

One thing I did learn about BoSe is NOT TO GIVE TO PREGNANT SHEEP. They dont know why..but ewes given BoSe while pregnant die. Good to know!!!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

glndg said:


> Jill, how do you decide how often to give BO-SE, especially since you are giving a selenium supplement? Without actually testing the goats, I don't know how I would determine this.


 I know this is directed at Jill, but since day 1 we have followed my mentor's management with a few minor tweaks along the way.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

nancy d said:


> I know this is directed at Jill, but since day 1 we have followed my mentor's management with a few minor tweaks along the way.


Thanks!


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

happybleats said:


> One thing I did learn about BoSe is NOT TO GIVE TO PREGNANT SHEEP. They dont know why..but ewes given BoSe while pregnant die. Good to know!!!


Wow! :shocked::shocked::shocked:That would be terrible.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Their tails tell me...

Good


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Selenium deficient


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Selenium deficient


So, FTS, floppy tail syndrome?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

But Jill don't those pics portray copper def as well? Not disagreeing here.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

:lol: that's one way to look at it. 

I give Bo.Se 3 times a year, the same day I copper bolus. Between that they get a good mineral with chleated minerals and mineral yeasts. The tails do start bending a bit when they are due for their shots so, I think I'm giving just enough for my herd at this point.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

nancy d said:


> But Jill don't those pics portray copper def as well? Not disagreeing here.


To some extent yes, because they can't use their copper storage without Selenium to move it. True copper deficiency by it's self doesn't bend the tail though, you can see the effects from it too, on the tail as well as on the hair coat, etc.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

So you are speaking specifically of actual bent tail=selenium def vs split or fish tail which means copper def?
Those coats look pretty dog gone slick for copper def.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, the way the tip of the tail hangs in the 3 pictures. Like the tendons got really loose.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Fascinating! You mean in post 18?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, in post 18. The little gray guy is the one who got "returned" to me at midnight by being dumped in my garden. Since most of his problem is empty feed trough syndrome, I did wait a month to see if good food and minerals would bring the tail back up, it didn't so, I did give him an extra shot and an extra 1/2 dose of copper rods. I should take another picture of him now, he has a tummy :lol:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

WOW...interesting...now I need to go see my goats tails...well I will wait til morning...they are all about due for both copper and selenium..but I only give selenium once a year...?? copper three times a year.....humm...??


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Pelaya look what you have created.:slapfloor:No worries, absorb what you can.


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## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

I like using the selnium/vitamin E gel from Jeffers. The newborns take it better, and all around I like it better for multiple reasons. It works just as good, but the best part is, is it's cheaper, and you do not have to have a vet to get it from Jeffers.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I use the selenium vit e gel and give it every 3 months along with copper bolusing.. Works well here so far


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## EggieBaby (Jan 7, 2014)

So...I just gave my two does the jeffer's selenium but not copper. I'm guessing I should have done both at the same time?? 
Polly, our ND doe was just bred yesterday. Does that affect how much copper I give her and when I give it?


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## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

EggieBaby said:


> So...I just gave my two does the jeffer's selenium but not copper. I'm guessing I should have done both at the same time??
> Polly, our ND doe was just bred yesterday. Does that affect how much copper I give her and when I give it?


We give ours at different times and always have. No problems here.


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## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

I HIGHLY recommend REPLAMIN over copper bolus or selenium gel though now. I have been using it. It has all the minerals in it with one single dose. My does have improved soooo much by using it


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Depends on where you are actually. WA to KS is a huge difference and Replamin is not nearly enough in OR.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I doubt it's enough for WA either. I use manna pro minerals and still need to copper bolus every 3 months. I ordered Replamin + a long time ago, and something happened to the shipping so I canceled and just never tried re ordering that again.... I might try it one of these days..LOL


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I use Replamin Plus and still have to copper bolus and give BoSe and I'm in Ohio. I have been able to go from 3 times a year to 2 times a year giving it though.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Our poor goats...we have done so much damage to our soil that now we have to feed this stuff to our herds...Hubby always says.." In the wild...blah blah blah" And I have to explain...we are not in the wild and we, as in MAN, have destroyed even what is good in the wild. Thankfully we dont stop learning how to improve our herds health.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

pelaya said:


> As a new goat owner I wanted to get the real scoop on Selenium supplementation. Does the oral supplement with vitamin E work just as well as the injection that you have to get from a vet? What is the best way to goats to receive this monthly supplement?


First off, where exactly are you located? Do you know if your area is selenium deficient? There is a vast difference between States as to how deficient any area is. Here in Kansas it's not that big an issue. We are actually one of the States that seems to have more than enough. Talk to your vet about whether or not it is needed in your area. After that, it is pretty much a matter of preference as to whether you do oral or injection. Injection will last longer. But if you don't like giving shots, oral may work better for you, you'll just have to do it more often. Here are a couple maps showing selenium from 2 points of view...one how MUCH selenium is in any given area, the other more general:


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Humm New Mexico seems to be adequate where I'm at, however the last two yrs I have had to give selenium gel to weak kids at birth. So I wonder what's going on there. I'm in the Southeast corner of NM by Texas.


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