# pack set up???



## swbuckmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

I am looking for a saddle and pack setup for one of my goats. This goat came from Charlie Goggin's stock in Fallen Nevada. It should be a big goat. He already has shown he has the heart to be a great packer.

Right now I have one of the Owyhee aluminum saddles and deluxe panniers. After using the northwest wooden saddles I think I like them better for the larger goats. I think it looks better and fits the goat better. The Owyhee saddle works great though on one of my smaller goats. 

So my question is which panniers would be the way to go with this goat? I donâ€™t want to get something so big I feel I can pack the kitchen sink. But I want something he can pack comfortably. I think I could get something a little larger than what I am using now but I am not sure I need to get one of the largest packs made. 

Which pannier is larger the northwest basic or the Owyhee deluxe? Which has more cubic inches?

Or would you suggest I go with the double bucket Owyhee or deluxe from northwest?

Somebody convince me which one to get. I wish I had all of them sitting side by side so I could compare which one I liked better. So far the Owyhee panniers have been pretty durable it seems like I am never on a trail. It seems like I am always bush whacking through scrub oak and dead fall pine trees and they have held up with out a hitch.

I also herd Clay Zimmerman has some panniers where are his prices and sizes located.

What is the most popular saddle pannier combo people are using for large goats?


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

I like Clays panniers quality. I have some of the deluxe owyhee, and some of the large Butt head panniers they are both really similar and both really high quality. They both measure around 18 x 14 x8. I think thats as big as you would want them. I cant speak for the northwest panniers i have never owned a pair.

The panniers that Clay use's are extra heavy duty nylon fabrick. His will cost you more also. He needs the extra heavy duty material because his gear gets used so much with the goat rental bis. The last time i was at Clay's palce he showed me a saddle he got from the rendy this year that some llama packer makes. That saddle, panniers combo looked pretty sweet, but it also costs around 450$. 

Ill probabley get my next set of panniers from Rex. Just so i can have some of everybodys stuff.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi,

I have the old version of Deluxe panniers from Owyhee (bought them before Greg brought Owyhee), the basic panniers from Northwest and used the zipped panniers from Northwest for a while, as well (sold them to a friend who needed larger panniers than I).

I like the deluxe panniers for their extra straps to secure additional load resp. keep the load away from the goat and the side restraint straps (it's a lot of straps and buckles to close and open when loading or unloading).

The basic panniers from Northwest only have the flap to close them which makes them easier (faster) to close and more flexible than a zippered pannier if you have bulkier or smaller loads. You can pull the flap down if you don't have that much to transport but you have room enough for more.

As for durability I can't help you on that topic because I mostly stay on trails and don't go that much through underbrush. But I use the panniers for 4 years no without any sign of strain or damage.

As for cubic inches: as both (Owyhee and Northwest) state the measurements of the panniers on their websites you can easily calculate the cubic inches.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

I saw that you can calculate the square inches and I did. This is what I come up with.

Owyhee deluxe 18x14x8 2016 per side 4032 cubic inches total. Does this include the water bottles or not?

Double bucket 19x14x10 2660 per side and 5320 total this is huge. Probably even to big for a goat unless it is packing potato chips. Right? Maybe I am out in the dark on this. Who here uses ones these big?

The Basic from Northwest 16x16x8 2048 per side and 4096 total not bad but I would have to add my water to the inside of the pack and it might make it smaller than the Owyhee deluxe.

Delux 18x16x10 2880 and 5760 total same as the double bucket just donâ€™t know if it is going to be two big or not.

I have to look at my self I have packs that are as big as 4500 cubic inches and these packs are huge they are hard for me to carry and a goat isnâ€™t much bigger than me. 



I want a pannier to be just a bit larger than the deluxe because I have to pack every thing so tight as it is Using compression sacks. I have a pretty light weight hunting gear. If I pack for myself with the bear minimums I can have only about 40 lbs of gear. This is enough for about 3-4 days worth of gear. If I am hunting in the winter I have more weight and bulkier gear. 

How big are clays? Does anyone have a close up picture of his panniers?

Why do I always have to make everything so difficult? This is why I am not a very good online customer. I like to have a more hands on approach. 

Sorry for all the questions!


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

The double bucket panniers are only good for things like sleeping bags, clothes and sleeping pads whose load is mostly bulk and not much weight. With that much volume you max them out weight wise pretty fast.
I prefer panniers that are a little smaller and not any longer than the goat from front to back. I also don't like toploads, I'd rather have everything on the sides and enclosed so that nothing can fall off and nothing gets caught on stuff. We have had some custom panniers made to fit slightly longer loads such as tent poles and other things that can lie down inside the bottom of the panniers.


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

I think you've rented from clay so you should know what his set up is like. Here's a pic of his setup. He has some company in SLC build his panniers and top pack. I hope this helps. I'd call Clay if i was you.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Most standard panniers will hold a bucket for times when you need to potect fragile stuff.


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## Lightfoot Packgoats (Dec 12, 2008)

I've got the larger panniers from Butt-Head packgoats. I've got the regular panniers and the big ones from Northwest, I've also got double bucket panniers from Owyhee and the junior Owyhee as well.

As Carolyn pointed out, you have to watch the weight on the larger panniers, they are huge and you can easily overload the goat with them.

Leon is only coming 2 in February, so his weight should still be kept very, very low, about 12% I'd say. So beware of overloading him too early and either hurting him or making him feel defeated before he is mentally or physicaly mature.

Since I've got nearly all the panniers, I have to say, I use them all. They are all made of durable cordura fabric and many of them have taken a heck of a beating on various trips and still work and look great.

Some folks don't like the straps on the Butt-Head panniers, but I'm used to them and find them handy when I need to cinch up a less bulky load. 

I was kind of nervous about getting zippers but so far, the zipper topped panniers are also holding up. The standard Northeset panniers with just the flap are still holding up perfectly after 8 years of use and I like their ease, though I need to order another top strap, I've lost mine recently... 

The big ones are great for that bulky stuff, especially in colder weather when everything is bulky and you need the space. The goat has to learn how big he is regardless and stuff piled high on top does lead to more problems for my goats than the wide loads seem to.

The big ones I have from Northwest and Owyhee only go on full grown goats and things like sleeping bags, clothes bags, etc, go in very easily. 

I can lay mine all out, fill 'em up with something and send you pics if you like. Or model them on goats, would that help? It would have to be a nice day when I have time, but it might be good to have in the files of this forum for others. 

Would that be ok with everyone? Would anyone else be interested in a photo shoot with several different types of gear? It would also give folks an idea of the size as I could put them on say, Laz, Arie (a nice sized doe) and then Mike, who is still not full grown but as large as most full grown packers.

I could have them model the different saddles without the panniers so folks could see how they fit different sized and shaped goats.

Charlie Goggin
Lightfoot Packgoats


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I like all my stuff stowed in zipper panniers. I got tired of losing stuff and having to go back and get it when a goat would scrape it off.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

Charlie I would like that! I think people new to pack goats would like to see it as well.

As for Leon. It is hard to think he is only 2 in feb because he is a monster. He will only pack his recommended weight. I donâ€™t want to ruin him. I also didnâ€™t want to feed a goat that didnâ€™t have any potential. That is why he was tested. He showed his potential on my hunting trip and I am glad I purchased him from you. The more he packed the more he impressed me. 

As for this summer I am going to get a new northwest saddle for him. Donâ€™t know what kind of panniers to get yet. I will split up my gear on all of my goats which should equal around 10-20 lbs for each goat. Leon should be able to handle this with ease. Every one should be able to keep up including my self as I will be carrying the same. Next fall when I do a pack trip I will rent a goat from clay to help out with my friends gear.


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## Lightfoot Packgoats (Dec 12, 2008)

If you get a Northwest saddle for Leon, go ahead and get him the adjustable saddle. These are really nice saddles and the neat thing is it will fit him forever, no matter how he grows or changes and will also fit a different goat just as well if you adjust it for a different goat. I love mine.

Ask Rex to rig it the way he did for me, with a V shaped pony breast collar and the cool breeching, Leon will need these changes because of his build. It does make the saddle a bit heavier (Rex complained about the weight to me, he is such a dear man) but I think it is worth it in the way this saddle stays put and is comfy for the goat. That V shaped breast collar is terrific on a hard hill and the breeching really fits and is super adjustable for any goat at all. It goes up, down, in, out and any way for a longer, taller, shorter, wider or leaner goat. I can put Gully's saddle on my does and that thing can still fit them perfect.

I'll send pics of how this thing is rigged. 

He is currently making me another one like Gulliver's, I liked it so well I figured two is better than one! 

Charlie Goggin
Lightfoot Packgoats


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## Rod Meyer (Jun 1, 2009)

Charlie, it would be cool if you could post some pictures of your goats with tack.

I just got started on the packgoat thing but I intend to use them for packing. Lots of good information on panniers. What about pack saddles? what do you all like?

Rod


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## Sophie (May 31, 2009)

I personally prefer butt head equipment. They have Lg. and Sm. Panniers so you can choose the what size fits your goat best. But what I like best is that everything is hand made, and they really put a lot of care into their products. Though if you are going to order I would suggest ordering a head of time because sometimes you have to wait for a little while to get your stuff. But in my opinion it is well worth the wait.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

The only saddles I've tried are the Owyhee aluminum saddles. A friend let me try his, they worked great, so I bought 3. The things I like about them are their lighter weight than wooden saddles, and their strength. Except for the plastic buckles they seem indestructible. The pads are built in, and can't slip out of place. They may not be as thick as removable pads, but I haven't seen any signs of my goats suffering any pain or sore spots. The one thing I don't like about them is that the pads are two separate pads, open at the top. This lets debris like twigs and leaves that fall on the goat work their way down under the pad. They would be a lot better if they were just a single pad that's closed at the top. But being attached to the saddle is good, as far as i'm concerned.

As for panniers, I have the Owhyee deluxe panniers. They work fine and have held up thru some really rough treatment. I was worried about the zippers, but so far haven't had any problems with them. The zippers are really good for keeping bugs and goats out of the panniers too.

Here are the boys packing in last fall's elk camp for me. We are 8 miles in at this point, 9 stream crossings, and I'm whooped. But the boys are going strong.










For day hikes I use some canvas tote bags I found at Walmart for $10 each. They are big enough for water bottles, jackets, lunch, and such. Here's a pic of Pinto, sporting the Walmart tote bags and his Owyhee saddle. (He's so cool!).


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