# More worming and cocci questions....



## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

I’m guessing it’s been a bad year for the NE US for worm and coccidia problems this year due to the seemingly endless rain...

We had a problem with strongyles and coccidia last year when we first got our goats. We actually got them in bad condition. We got the problem mostly under control with ivermectin and corid.

This we we had fecals done about 2 months ago and same results. High in those worms and coccidia. Last month we treated with ivermectin, safeguard, and corid. Corid for a 5 day cycle off a week then another 5 day cycle. Ivermectin once...waited 2 wells and then dosed again...safeguard 3 days in a row.

We had fecals done yesterday and still very high in coccidia and we were told they look similar to strongyles and COULD be barber pole or another one with a very long name starting with O. 

This is horrifying to me as i thought we had a hold on this. A local goat owner recommended Valbazen and albon. Don’t those treat the same worms? How could they be resistant already! Is it too soon to treat them again? They are still acting normally and aren’t anemic. 

Another issue that i actually think is unrelated is that our 4 year old momma has had scours for 3 days. I know initially they seem to be related but she tested lowest in her fecals and was actually at normal levels for worms and cocci. My hypothesis is that it’s fall now and there are a lot of black cherry trees (poisonous) and other trees in out neighbors property that are blowing over that they are eating. Could this be why?

Any response would be helpful.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

injectable b complex helps them fight worms along with dewormer. corid is good for cocidia and so is this product https://horseprerace.com/toltrazuril-5-200ml/
valbazen is good but safeguard doesnt work that well
what mineral plan do you have for them?


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## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

Ok. I think we were going to just but albon and treat them again. As far as the worms we will treat will valbazen today.

We use sweetlix minerals given free choice


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Give them copper bolus, if they cannot fight off worms.
Any fishtails or discolored hair?

The fecal you describe sounds strange, They found cocci, but they look like strongyles? Is it both or strongyles?

What was the count? 

With cocci, all goats can have a low count, and don't have to be treated, depending on the count.
Low safe counts are normal. 
When was the fecal done, as in how many days after last treatment.

It sounds like you have over wormed your goats, it may of built resistance.

If the grasses are lush, it makes the feed rich, if they eat too much, it can make them scour, green. 
Limiting time out helps along with feeding some hay before letting them out.

Alternating fields, may help as well, if possible.


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## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

Thanks Toth. These are my issues...

Yes both cocci and strongyles, both were said to be too high from the vet. Apparently the printed out report with actual numbers is in the mail.

Yes gave cooper bolus about 4 months ago. We can give again No problem...but is that really all i can do at this point. I don’t see how we over worked the goats and they built up resistance. They have only been wormed for 2 complete cycles in over a year. Can i still try albazen or do you think that’s too much. I’m worried about leaving them with a high worm load.... also i was thinking of trying an herbal dewormer...there is no fish tail, all acting normally, not anemic, and coat seems fine..

The goats having issues is a group of 4 ladies that share about an acre. I can’t really rotate their pasture....also I’m worried some of the leaves getting into their pasture is actually what’s causing scours and runny nose so I’m hesitant to let them out. A vet is visiting the property on Monday so hopefully I’ll have some more answers.... my boys in a separate pasture are not experiencing and issues...

I should add that the girls share their pasture with Chinese geese. I’m wondering if that has anything to do with it


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Worming is given 10 days later. 
For really wormy goats it is 3 x 10 days apart. Not 2 weeks, as you have done, that leaves the hatching eggs time to hatch then it re-infests the goat.

They do pick up worms/cocci again if the ground has been defecated on, then they eat from it.

Cocci is species oriented.

Corid for a 5 day cycle off a week then another 5 day cycle is not necessary. 
For prevention, is it every 21 days.
How did you mix the corid and how much was given per lb?
Here is how the powder, liquid corid is mixed and the dosage for that plus premixed. Do not use thiamine or fortified vit B complex, while treating with corid, it cancels it out.

_20% Powdered mixture: 3 ounces(10.5 tblspns) to 1 quart water
Mixed solution well. Shake well before use.
then dose it at ...
30cc per 100lbs
15cc per 50lbs
7.5 per 25 lbs
and so on
 treat individually for 5 days
_



_Mixing undiluted Corid liquid:
Mix 6 tablespoons corid to 16 oz water.... 
Or Pre mixed solution give as follows
then dose it at ...
30cc per 100lbs
15cc per 50lbs
7.5 per 25 lbs
treat individually for 5 days_


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## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

Thank you! So i share this account with my wife and all the previous posts in this thread were hers. I’m jumping in now to clear some things up. My wife is always right and i hope this doesn’t get me in trouble

So for the worming we did exactly that. Wormed once and then again in 10 days...not 2 weeks which would be 14 days. 

For the corid we did do 2 cycles and i hope that’s not bad....we mixed it and dosed the liquid corid exactly as your post says. Actually most of the things we’ve done are from your posts in the past as the goatspot has been great for these types of things.

So given we did things mostly right....besides the added 5 day corid treatment what now? We can do copper bolus but can we try valbazen? Or is this too much wormer and will it help them build up resistance?

Really our main and most immediate concern is our female with diarrhea. It’s been a week. Her temperature is 104.4 and we pulled grain and are only feeding hay, electrolytes, and probiotics. The vets only advise is to give her 40cc of pepto 3 times a day which seems extreme and wouldn’t really help her recover from whatever undiagnosed problem she is having...
Isn’t 104.4 a little high? She’s 4 years old and 65 pounds. She’s a fainting goat. Her gums are moist and her eyelids are red...


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

hmm 104.4 sounds a little high...
there's a paste for scours https://www.google.com/search?q=sco...ILA&biw=1318&bih=697#spd=11576088569530753390
im not sure if it works though, ive never used it...
lets see if a more experienced person comes along


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Lunaroso Your worry and desire to do things right come through loud and clear. I hope that I don't muddy the waters too much with my contribution.

Is it the case that Valbazen is the chemical wormer you have used in the past? And they are still high loads? If this was the case with me, I'd switch wormers now to a different family. Frankly, I'd move to Prohibit (Levamisole) every 10 days for 3 times, not 2, and then one more time 30 days later. That would be...
Initial dose
10 days later (so 11 days total)
10 days later (so 21 days total)
30 days later (so 51 days total)

I'd give Replamin Gel Plus every day for 5 days and then once time a week. This is loaded with mineral support for the immune system and also it does contain probiotics to support the gut through this.

I'd also find a way to give her 2 cloves of garlic every day. If she won't eat it on her own, I'd mash it up or blend it and put it on feed. Or even put it in a syringe and drench her.

I'd also do whatever I could do to move her off of that ground for a few weeks. I'm not saying that is possible for you. I'm saying I'd sure try.

Vitamin C, Apple Cider Vinegar in a drench also.

Banamine, if your vet will let you have it, for the fever. That is high, and more than a little, poor thing. Ask your vet to test the diarrhea for a bacterial cause, not just the parasites. I had E. Coli go through my buck herd 2 summers ago. I lost 3 out of 4 bucks before we thought to check for infection, not just focus on infestation. Only my Kiko survived.

I'm so sorry for her. And for you, too. I can only offer what I'd do.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She should be cocci free now, if the corid worked. Doing it every 21 days as a prevention is best, not 5 days after first session.  Usually adults do not need prevention, as they should fight them off if they are healthy. Sometimes they fail to be able to fight anymore, due to stress, illness, which knocks down their immunity so they are more susceptible to other things.

Wormers sometimes may stop working, so trying a different one is good to do.
But if the wormer was not given 3 x 10 days apart, the lingering worm eggs hatched out and just reloaded the goat again.

Pig scour halt is a good product when you get the initial culprit treated at the same time. It stops the tough cases. Double the label dosage and go by instructions.

104.4 temp is high, she sounds to have pneumonia now from her battle, which lowered her immune system.
Retake her temp and make sure it is still high, if it is, start antibiotics. 
Biomycin, Nuflor, LA 200. Be careful what you use it on, preggo's LA200 and Biomycin is not safe.

If she has been in the hot direct sun or running from you, allow her to cool and calm down before retaking temp. 
Be sure to repopulate her rumen with fortified vit B complex and probiotics at least a couple of hours after any treatment is given. Except when giving corid thiamine, as I indicated prior.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm jumping on on this too and giving you praise for trying to get your goats healthy. Worms are super frustrating, and this year has been crazy for so many especially due to unusually wet seasons/year.

If the vet said cocci looks like strongyles, I would suggest a different vets opinion. I am no vet, but I can tell the difference on a microscope between cocci and a strongyle. 

Ivermectin can be just as useless as safeguard for a variety of those type of worms. However, I'm curious what kind of Ivermectin did you use, what is the goats weights and dosage you gave?
Ivermectin is needed in high dosages to be effective. 

Valbazen is good for a lot of stomach worms but wanted to added locally it is not effective for tapeworm (which has been our issue this summer with young goats).
When I've used Valbazen I used it 3 days in a row, then treated again in 10 days for 3 days in a row, but again I was hoping to hit tapeworm - IT DID take care of the strongyle issue we had last year with some wethers. They acted sick when they were cleaning out, one scoured, but within a day or two they started to bounce back and were fine. 
ALWAYS retreat, and if it's a bad worm load, I highly recommend a 3 dose regimen - so 3x every 10 days as Pam said above. MAKE SURE you give correct dosage, don't under dose. I always give a little more just in case they spill a drop of it. NOT SAFE FOR PREGNANT DOES!!!

Otherwise.... my go to dewormer is Moxidectin. You can get this in a few forms - Cydectin Pour On given orally, Cydectin sheep drench (given 2x the sheep dosage), or Quest/Quest Plus horse dewormers given 3x a horse dose. We use the pour on orally for our adults , and Quest Plus for our young goats (the 'Plus' part kills tapes!). 

I highly recommend red cell or magic cell for the ones who are having an issue. Make sure they are eating well. Spectogard or Pepto for the scouring. B-Complex when not treating for cocci.

If cocci persists you can try using Di-Methox AND Corid at the same time. We had a cocci issue early this summer when our young goats got stressed from a show, and vet recommended it and it worked very well!

Sorry to write a book, but just wanted to put my $.02 in and hope it might help you (or someone else reading this). 

Good Luck!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Like the book, very informative.


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## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

We can't thank you guys enough!!!!

We went with the Valbezen since we never used it before and it seemed like it would work well for strongyles. We finished the 3 days of treatment using twice the dose on the label as recommended by toth. We will make sure to treat again in ten days exactly.

Vet came yesterday and since her fever was still a little high we got her an antibiotic. I believe it was called exceeds. I'm most definitely spelling that wrong. The vet also did blood work and found nothing wrong. She did say that the electrolytes were imbalanced and was consistent with a bacterial infection.

We used the the scour hault and wow did that work wonders. We are on day 3 of using it and i think we will only give her one dose today. Her poop looks completely normal again! We also have her B complex and electrolytes ( she loves to just lick the electrolyte powder out of our hands instead of putting it in the water).

I think we are just about out of the woods. We are thinking bacterial infection so the antibiotics should handle that, scouring is under control and we didn't let her get dehydrated and nourished her along the way so i think we are good there, worms are treated and we will do another fecal later to see what levels she's at.

Poor momma has been locked up in the barn and today she gets let out into the world again. I think we will give her some red cell since she was slightly anemic and it's about time to give everyone a copper bolus anyway so she will get that as well.

Now she just needs a bath! P.S. her name is "momma" but she's not pregnant haha.

I can't thank you guys enough. I think she's gonna be just fine!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

:run:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is doing better.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great to hear, keep up the good work.


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