# COYOTES!!



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

In the 10 years we have lived here and the 7 that I have had my goats, I have never heard a coyote. Well tonite was the first nite that I have ever shut the barn door this early in the season! I heard that lonesome hair raising sound coming off the hill above my house and had to stop and listen just to make sure it wasn't the wind...well I heard it again and it was closer! My girls hit the barn FAST!! And Bootsie blocked the doorway after they were all in..I heard 3 different howls in 10 minutes and then another one across the pasture in the hollow...they were calling back and forth...really eeri sounding so even though my girls have a fenced yard I felt safer lockingthem in. And I have the 12 gauge loaded waiting by the back door. It seems I won't be getting much sleep tonite...I'll have one ear "open"


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Good luck tonight~ 

Hopefully they were after something else like an injured deer or something. 

I hear them alot here, but they always seem to be on the other mountain - or at least that is what it sounds like. 

But then again, I have 10 foot fences and 2 llamas and 2 LGD's. 

Let us know how it goes!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You'd think these critters would be full...after all the gut piles they have...archery started 3 weeks ago! I just don't like that sound! And I've heard people tell me that they kill for the joy of it...not because they're hungry...at least I know my kids are safe! Why would they be around now after all these years? :?:


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## sunshineandtulip (Nov 6, 2007)

We hear them all the time. But the electric fences and lights seem to ward them off. If I hear them early and close though I usually lock my girls up too. I wouldnt want to take the chance. I have heard them hit the electric fence before. It seems they usually go after babies too. My parents are just across the field and hear them alot too It got so bad at one time that my dad would go out with spotlight and shotgun at about 3am and start shooting usually didnt hit them but scared them off. Coyotes seem to be adapting like deer and other wild animals that are thriving in suburban areas.. I know here around St.Louis I think it was, they were having problems with deer in the yards. I read an article in our conservation talking about coyotes doing the same. I have never heard of coyotes killing just to be killing and they are actually quite shy/sly animals. You ought to look them up online. there is a season around here to kill them unless they are bothering livestock then you have the right to shoot them anyways regardless of the season...


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## debpnigerians (Oct 20, 2007)

I have a love/hate relationship with coyotes....on one hand I love the outdoors and wild country, and coyotes, wolves etc are part of that. I also hate seeing any animal abused needlessly. Coyotes kill because they're hungry....dogs will kill for the thrill and often coyotes get blamed for what dogs do. But it's exceptionally rare for a wild animal to kill for sport because a) hunting is hard work that uses up calories they need to survive, and b) it's too easy to get hurt. Hungry, hurt animals get eaten by other animals and predators know this quite well. HOWEVER.....when they come hunting in MY pasture, going after MY goats .... :veryangry: ....I'm very glad to have Emma, my GP, in my buck pen and Worf, my Lab/GP/Ahkbash roaming the whole place. (I swear that dog's half Olympic show jumper and half kangaroo!) I don't worry too awfully much with them out there. but I will be really happy when Emma's old enough to breed so she can raise herself some help!


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## sunshineandtulip (Nov 6, 2007)

One thing we have a problem with around here too is people dumping dogs and then they mix with the coyotes!! That makes for a bad problem!!


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## Pam B (Oct 15, 2007)

liz said:


> Why would they be around now after all these years? :?:


Because animal rights activist groups have made hunting and trapping them seem like mean, nasty, horrible things that only evil people would do and wearing fur coats extremely unpopular. With few people harvesting them, their population is expanding exponentially and they are moving into more highly populated areas where finding food in garbage cans and pet food dishes on the back porch is much easier than trying to catch enough mice and rabbits to survive on.


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## Pam B (Oct 15, 2007)

debpnigerians said:


> ...But it's exceptionally rare for a wild animal to kill for sport because a) hunting is hard work that uses up calories they need to survive...


I wish this were true, but it's not. I have had a family of raccoons kill my entire pen of laying hens just for the fun of chasing them. They ate very few, but left the bloody, broken carcasses of two dozen birds scattered around the pen and coop.

I've had coyotes kill a bunch of my meat chickens for the same reason. I watched in horror from my bedroom window as a pack of them snatched up a chicken, shook it till it was dead, then dumped it and went after another. At that point in time we didn't keep a gun in the bedroom and by the time my husband heard my shrieking and retrieved an appropriate gun from the gun cabinet elsewhere in the house the coyotes heard me yelling and took off.

If they were killing because they were truly hungry they would eat the bird and then go after another. There are many animals that just like to chase things until they stop moving. Big cats are that way, too. It's just their instinct.


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## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

I hate coyotes. 
We have a corn field next to us and we can always hear them in that field. Needless to say we shut the barn door at night to. I keep my show goats locked in the barn at night. I have too much work, effort, love, and money in those goats to lose them to a coyote!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

> You ought to look them up online


I went to the PA Game Commissions site...and found some VERY interesting facts...one is that they are descendants of the smaller western coyotes but have migrated into Canada and bred with wolves so the ones in my area and in the eastern states are wolf/coyote crosses...they will seldom cross breed with a domestic dog. And the fact that they would rather eat roadkill than take down a small farm animal was some relief to me, but the game commission has a group that pick up roadkill deer as soon as possible so they are pretty much taking the food away. The coyotes here are trapped and hunted year round no special permits neede as long as the hunter has a fur bearers tag. The population has grown so much because the hunters have difficulty even finding these sly critters. And I also read that they will travel in packs through the summer but break into pairs come winter and WILL slaughter for the thrill of the kill. So for my peace of mind...my kids will be locked up at night, they may not like it but it's for their safety.

Also, stated on the PA site...any owner of "prey" animals such as goats sheep and fowl has the rifght to shoot to kill a predator.
Coyotes will bring down an adult deer by grasbbing it by the throat whereas a feral dog will grab it by the back legs..coyotes will eat the innards first and a dog will start on the hindquarters. So with the info I have now...I feel a bit better and not so panicky! I had a shepard/chow mix who was strictly outside(he absolutely hated being inside)..Petey was my guard dog..for me and my goats..I lost ther old guy a year ago and believe me if I could find another Petey it would put my mind at ease. He kept me alerted when something was around and chased them off too....usually just the neighbors dogs but P etey meant business!


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## jBlaze (Oct 9, 2007)

We have coyotes come into our fields. It makes me nervous. We have a huge hay field and an orchard next to us that they like to hang out in. I like to try to keep our horses in the fields next to those, and the goats up closer to the barns. The coyotes won't go into the fields where the horses are. We got llamas this year because of so much coyote noise. I noticed that some people about a mile from us with a good sized flock of sheep have a llama too now. Thank goodness we have never had any problems, and I sure hope we don't! Of course the field rodent problem from the last few years has not been an issue lately..


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I've only heard Coyotes once here. And my dogs (GSDs) ran to the field and we heard fighting, we haven't heard many Coyotes since......

Now when we lived in Tx they were a regular, once we saw a mother and her babies it was so cute!


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

We have TONS of coyotes, we get packs of 20-40 at a time, and by the time we all get out there with our guns the dogs have herded them into the game preserve next door(where the coyotes hide) We've lost tons of chickens to coyotes but thankfully no goats........


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

lPam said:


> With few people harvesting them, their population is expanding exponentially and they are moving into more highly populated areas where finding food in garbage cans and pet food dishes on the back porch is much easier than trying to catch enough mice and rabbits to survive on.


Take a look at: http://www.geocities.com/DesertCoyote_99/coyoteden.html

An interesting observation is:
"In exploited populations, coyotes have adopted a more solitary lifestyle. When they feel a decline in their numbers, a much higher percentage of females begin to breed. (In one Texas study, only 32% of the female coyotes were breeding and they were producing 4-5 pups per litter. Then a coyote control operation started and the numbers jumped to 90% and 8-9, respectively. The population actually INCREASED.) Almost all available females will be breeding, not helping their parent's pups. Territory size may get smaller to fit everyone in"

This has proven to be the case here in Canada, as well. For years we had bounties on coyotes and for years we watched their populations increase in direct sync with the culling programs. The more we killed, the more they bred. Management techniques have drifted more towards controlling coyote access to prey species through better fencing & shelter improvements. Another very successful technique was the introduction of llamas and/or donkeys into the flocks. And Pam is right... coyotes, like any species, will go for the easy meal. Garbage cans and pet foods need to be placed where predators can not gain easy access.


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## needs to know more (Oct 7, 2007)

I've lost a few ducks and chickens to the coyotes. After getting one of the ducks the coyotes came back to the fence every day looking for another easy meal. Never have seen them cross the electric fence. But will come right to it looking for a chicken or duck that has crossed. Right now I miss the coyotes. I would love to hear them again. I don't care if they wake me up at night or the outside dog barks all night because they are around. I want them back!!! No I truley haven't lost it. But the coyotes haven't been around since I heard the cougar. And I would much rather have the yotes than the cougars.


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

We haven't seen too many Coyotes around here...usually just when the hunters chase them out of hiding. I have never heard a Coyote howl around here either.

About a week ago a stray dog that looked like ol' yeller(but didn't have Lab ears...more like border collie type ears) came here. Stray dogs around here are very few and far between. Anyways I stepped outside and hollered at it and it just looked at me and continued to stiff the ground. Then it started moving towards the goat pens....I don't think it knew the goats were there, but I didn't really care if it knew they were there or not. So I got the BB gun and continued to yell at it and it just looked at me with a look that said "Whatever". So I shot at it and the BB landed in the dirt in front of it....so it moved to a different spot and had a look that I thought looked friendly....however I didn't want to take any chances so I shot at it again and hit it in the leg. It jumped and took off across the road and over to the neighbors. I wasn't too concerned about that...they have no livestock....I figured Winston(big Newfundland) would scare it off...the only animals I was concerned about was their cats. Anyways, I came back in the house and looked out the window and saw him clear at the end of the woods and went around the corner....needless to say we haven't seen him since....


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

I can remember when my son was just a little boy; maybe 7 or so. One night, around 2:00 a.m., he came into our room, woke us and said he couldn't sleep, "because the coyotes were screaming at his window." And I must admit, it did seem like that. They howl loud and long here. With apologies to Liz, I kinda like havin' the coyotes around. It's one of the reasons we chose a rural life. Truth be told however, I wouldn't feel so kindly towards them if they actually got on the property and started hasslin' "MY GOATS". Those 3 'fainters' wouldn't stand a chance. That said, we have high, tightly meshed fences, horses in the outer pastures and lots o' light in the yard around the goat shed.

The day I don't want to hear coyotes 'screaming at my window' is the day they stuff me in a box and drop me in a hole.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

> With apologies to Liz, I kinda like havin' the coyotes around. It's one of the reasons we chose a rural life


It's not that I don't like the sound as soulfull as it is..it's the fact that I haven't heard it before and it scared me for my goats. I too like living in the sticks but when something unfamiliar in my little part of the world comes along it gets MY hackles raised. Also, saw the afternoon news today and about 20 miles from here there was a mountain lion spotted....at least thats what the game commision had reported...they think it was someones illegal pet set free though.
I deal with bear too, they seem to skirt my property though but I have seen them up the road from me...I like having the wild critters around until they pose a threat to my goats.


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## debpnigerians (Oct 20, 2007)

God bless our good doggies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Lhamas, and donkeys...........and shotguns. :wink:


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh, I saw a big Black bear in Va, while I was headed to a show. It was really cool!


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

Cool, huh? Try having it running between the woods that isn't too far from your house!!!! It was July 3rd, 2005(I think...maybe it was just last year??) and we(Mom and I) were getting ready to go up town and watch the fireworks. A lot of people were setting off firecrackers. When Mom first seen the Bear it was walking between the two woods and she thought it was the neighbors dog, Winston. Then when a firecracker went off the Bear started running and Mom knew it wasn't a dog!! She thought it was cool, I was worried about the animals. :lol: A week or so later Mom was reading in the paper and a farmer had hit it. Creepy thing about it is....my brother was at a Boy Scout camp two years before and there was a guy saying that in two years, we will have Black Bears in Ohio...and sure enough...two years later....one showed up! :shock:


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I was in someone's yard...... not mine though lol. The people who lived here before us said that a bear ran across the front yard before... :shock:


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## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

i had never heard a coyote, and expected the 'howl'. when in arizona my son's family said the coyotes were outside. they didn't 'howl' at all, but did a lot of 'yipping'. i would not have recognized that as coyote.
sure enough, a few weeks later here i heard the 'yipping' one night. my neighbor said the next day that her son had scared one off along the brush line the day before. soooo, they can be out there and not do their howling, evidently. 
yes, i scurried my goats inside, as well. and i have covered the outside of the windows in their stall area with heavy hardware cloth so nobody decides to 'visit' them via that route.
we have bear, too, but i don't worry about them going after the goats so much as after the BOSS they might smell. then the goats could get hurt because they are in the way! i'm afraid to put bird seed out for the birds because the bear just rip feeders to shreds, even when they are put near the house.
none of those creatures scare me like a mountain lion, though. they used to live here; some say they are coming back. for my own peace of mind, even with the donks out there, i may get working on the wire along the top of my new fence. watch ME be the only thing that ever gets zapped!!!!!


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

LIZ ... trust me, the coyotes have been around here in PA, just not as noticeable until the past couple years. They're getting overpopulated which is why in PA you can hunt coyote ANYTIME - there's no specific season. However I do believe (but not 100% sure) that you must have a license. That's to hunt them though - no on the other hand, if they're comming into YOUR yard and comming after YOUR animals. etc. - then you should be able to shoot them without getting into trouble, but again - not 100% sure. Best thing is that if you have a problem with them comming after your animals, if you shoot any without a license - just keep it hush hush. :wink: 

I remember YEARS and YEARS ago a very chilling experience with coyotes. They've BEEN around. They're just very cautious not to be seen, etc. 

Last winter we would hear them almost every night here. And we heard them up until about June or July of this year, then didn't hear them anymore. Until last night - we heard them again. ALOT of them. 

My husband has hunted coyotes before. It can be difficult actually shooting them because they're very cautious. If you call them - they'll only come in and "call" so far, but once they get close (like within 100-200yards) then they won't call anymore - they become silent and slowly "stalk" the scene and check it out. They're sneaky and quiet once they get in close. They're smart, and won't take any major risks unless they're REALLY hungry. 

Anyway, we hear them all the time, yet they've NEVER once bothered us. However, they HAVE come as close to our house as the border of our yard (where the trees border the yard) which is really close to our house. That was last winter. But we have big dogs that are really good guardians, so we've never had a problem with the coyotes so far.


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## getchagoat (Oct 6, 2007)

They seem to come in spurts here. I here them alot, but haven't seen one in the daylight for a year or so. A few years ago I killed four in the backyard trying to eat my black lab over the course of week. All of them came around noon. One I'm sure one had rabbies, as he was foaming at the mouth and was tring to eat me as well. I don't know PA laws, but in Ky hunting permits are not needed when the animal is in the act of predation.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

As I had posted..The game commission here in PA has really good info on their site, the coyotes have been around here for quite awhile...just becoming more widespread...and their is no "special" required to hunt them...if ANY predatory animal is a threat to livestock, pets people...you can shoot them without repercussions. On the black bears, I haven't had any after my goats but they will go after grain...especially the sweet stuff...no intention of hurting a goat but if they are "in the way" they will kill them. I saw a mama and 2 cubs in late August just as I was backing out of my driveway...they were at the neighbors corn crib and the closer I got(in my car of course!) T he more aggressive mom became...stomping her front feet and growling/blowing at me...they are very protective of their babies...she turned them up the hill and took off. It used to be that you would have to go over the ridges here, Derry,Ligonier to even see a bear but here they are practically in my back yard...there was even 1 hit on the road close by. The fact that coyotes are as sneaky as they are is what bugs me...a bear has a distinct smell to them...sweet and musky...you smell them before you see them.


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## littledipperfarms (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh man, do I hate those coyotes. They used to "scream at my window". That aweful yapping sound like they're communicating. Although, aside from being afraid of my goats getting eaten, it is interesting. They used to chase the horses around and thought the goats would be an easy target too. They weren't afraid of our LGD but I havent heard them once since we got the llamas. Must be more intimidating... who knows.


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