# Need goat advice!



## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Hey all!

So as you may or may not know, I’m new to goats. Just got them this year. Unfortunately for me I bought 6 before I really knew what potential they had for my future, and now really want to get into showing, appraisals, milk testing, and generally just bettering the breed. (Nigerian Dwarves, specifically.)

My issue though, like stated above, is that I bought 6 goats that aren’t fit for that, and just recently bred a pairing that isn’t exactly going towards my goal of ‘bettering the breed.’ They are more average milkers. Right now I only have one registered ND doe, and two registered bucks. The rest are Pygmys and crosses. Of course now I’m on the waiting list for a couple better doelings, but my bucks aren’t going to improve them. I’m at a loss. I’m the type of person that gets attached very easily, especially when we’ve had them all for almost a year now, so rehoming isn’t in the question. (Also, try telling that to the rest of my family...) We don’t have the room to add any more bucks either until summer where we can build a new buck pen.

So... any advice? Be honest, because I seriously don’t really know what to do! I live with my family as well, which includes my parents, who are basically paying for everything. Trying to convince them to invest in goats is a bit of a tricky situation. I feel embarrassed that I don’t have as beautiful of goats like the rest of the people on here, but I love the ones I have too much. They’re our first ones, so I’m sure it’ll get easier to rehome In the future. I’m too emotionally invested, lol!

Thanks in advance!


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> Hey all!
> 
> So as you may or may not know, I’m new to goats. Just got them this year. Unfortunately for me I bought 6 before I really knew what potential they had for my future, and now really want to get into showing, appraisals, milk testing, and generally just bettering the breed. (Nigerian Dwarves, specifically.)
> 
> ...


You can breed your doe's to your best buck you have. How


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

Have you considered either renting a buck for breeding season or bringing your does to be bred? Or even AI if your vet does it at all? You may be able to get good stud services in your area without having to buy another buck.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Rancho Draco said:


> Have you considered either renting a buck for breeding season or bringing your does to be bred? Or even AI if your vet does it at all? You may be able to get good stud services in your area without having to buy another buck.


We did consider renting at first, but there’s no bucks near us that are of high enough quality for what I’m looking for. The only ND breeder near us is the one we got our other goats from.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> We did consider renting at first, but there’s no bucks near us that are of high enough quality for what I’m looking for. The only ND breeder near us is the one we got our other goats from.


Can you post pictures of your bucks? So we can see what we have available to work with.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

First off, never be embarrassed by your goats! Most of us did not start out with high quality and show worthy animals. I'm pretty sure if I entered any of my goats in a show, they wouldn't do very well. We all have to start somewhere. 

It's very admirable that you want to breed to improve. It certainly is the harder path than just breeding for color and cuteness. Culling (selling or otherwise getting rid of) is something you are going to have to do on the path to breeding the type of goat that you want. Sometimes that is going to be hard. They may have great personalities and be hard to part with, but you should ask yourself what really would make you happiest in the long run. 

All that being said, I'm a believer in working with what you have. My advice would be don't just cull your whole herd and buy new animals. Cull enough that will get you the space to house new additions. For example: I right now have two bucks that are full brothers. They both have their flaws and I would really like to see some traits in my bucks that they do not have. Instead of just starting over and getting two new bucks, I kept a doeling out of one of them to then breed back to the other brother, and plan on keeping a buckling out of that pairing with the hopes of getting the best of both bucks in one. The brothers will then be culled and I will have both of their traits in one and space to add an entirely new buck from a herd with traits to better improve my girls. See what I mean? 

Another piece of advice I'd like to give is don't expect to improve all your goats' traits at once. Let's say hypothetically your goats have poor udder attachments, weak pasterns, poor depth, poor width, and you want to increase milk production. Don't try and attack all those problems at once. Focus on a few things at a time and then once you are producing stock that has those improvements, shift your focus to something else.

I hope that helps a bit!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you can’t buy any other buck and a breeder is too far away.
As suggested, use your best buck you have for breeding.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> Can you post pictures of your bucks? So we can see what we have available to work with.


I don’t have any good pictures, especially since now it’s winter so they’re very fluffy and hard to get a good look at. This year we bred Casper to Luna, this is probably the best photo I have of him. But, this photo is a couple months old so he has changed.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> I don’t have any good pictures, especially since now it’s winter so they’re very fluffy and hard to get a good look at. This year we bred Casper to Luna, this is probably the best photo I have of him. But, this photo is a couple months old so he has changed.
> View attachment 215936


Okay! He sure is a pretty boy! Is he registered?


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> First off, never be embarrassed by your goats! Most of us did not start out with high quality and show worthy animals. I'm pretty sure if I entered any of my goats in a show, they wouldn't do very well. We all have to start somewhere.
> 
> It's very admirable that you want to breed to improve. It certainly is the harder path than just breeding for color and cuteness. Culling (selling or otherwise getting rid of) is something you are going to have to do on the path to breeding the type of goat that you want. Sometimes that is going to be hard. They may have great personalities and be hard to part with, but you should ask yourself what really would make you happiest in the long run.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Very good tips here.

I’ll have to wait until summer to start considering culling and making more room for bucks. When we first got into goats we just wanted to rent out a buck so we kind of put together a pretty small buck pen once we decided we wanted them. Now we have three! 🥲 Again though, I only have so much power here to make the decisions I want. It also includes convincing the rest of my family. They’ll think I’m cruel for wanting to make room for new goats.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> Okay! He sure is a pretty boy! Is he registered?


Thank you! He is. All my ND’s are registered


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> Thank you! Very good tips here.
> 
> I’ll have to wait until summer to start considering culling and making more room for bucks. When we first got into goats we just wanted to rent out a buck so we kind of put together a pretty small buck pen once we decided we wanted them. Now we have three! 🥲 Again though, I only have so much power here to make the decisions I want. It also includes convincing the rest of my family. They’ll think I’m cruel for wanting to make room for new goats.


Who payed for the bucks? If you did, then you do what you gotta do.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> Thank you! He is. All my ND’s are registered


Ohhh okay.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> Who payed for the bucks? If you did, then you do what you gotta do.


I payed for one of them, but he was our very first goat, and is now pretty much a loved pet. Not sure I can get rid of him, lol! But I’ll have to definitely suck it up and get things done if I want any progress.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> I payed for one of them, but he was our very first goat, and is now pretty much a loved pet. Not sure I can get rid of him, lol! But I’ll have to definitely suck it up and get things done if I want any progress.


Will yall be putting up anymore pastures? If so, you technically wouldn't have to sell any of them. But ad to them yes lol.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> Will yall be putting up anymore pastures? If so, you technically wouldn't have to sell any of them. But ad to them yes lol.


Once the snow is gone we’ll be making a new buck pen that’s much bigger than the one we have now. I’m just impatient! I guess I answered my own question though, huh? Just have to wait a while before I can get started with things.


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

Kaitlyn said:


> Hey all!
> 
> So as you may or may not know, I’m new to goats. Just got them this year. Unfortunately for me I bought 6 before I really knew what potential they had for my future, and now really want to get into showing, appraisals, milk testing, and generally just bettering the breed. (Nigerian Dwarves, specifically.)
> 
> ...


You can breed and sell some for pets and price them less because they are for pet buyers. Then, you can have the fancier goats for milk and buyers wanting production and conformation to breed standard.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

I am in a very similar boat as you. Got goats fours years ago for only pets - we weren't even going to breed or milk them. Last summer we bred one of our does and kept her doeling. I then decided that my plan was to just raise "backyard milkers" with very flashy colors and blue eyes. Well, now my plans are very different and I also want to better the breed, milk test, LA, get more registered goats, and so on. I as well live at home, but the goats are my goats because I pay and care for them a 100%. They only thing I don't (can't) do is drive to get more goats - thanks for doing that mom! Haha! Soon I will be able to.......though, that might be dangerous for the sake of goat math! Lol!

My current maximum pen/shelter space for does 4-6 and for bucks it's 2 maybe 3. My current herd consists of 4 does (2 pure ND, 2 ND/Pygmy mix) and 2 bucks (1 registered ND and the other is my neighbor's, it's a long story, but my buck is housed on my neighbors property). I'm pretty much already maxed out on goats and my herd is nowhere where I want it to be eventually. I really hope to get a very nice registered doeling or two this spring. I also know that I'm going to have to keep a doeling out of one of my does this spring because I won't be able to resist. So there's my problem - I need to make room by culling - eek! As of right now (I'm sure we all know how plans can change haha), I plan on rehoming my two ND/Pygmy does in the spring/summer because they are the worst quality in my herd. It's really hard for me to do that because they are two of my first goats - it does kinda help that one of them is a brat though - lol! If all goes as planned, I should be back down to 4-5 does/doelings next spring and some better quality to work with. My bucking is registered, but he's no THE best. I needed a buckling for breeding season this year and he was the best I could find. I didn't plan on keeping him for long, but now I'm reconsidering. I'll most likely keep him around for next breeding season and go from there. He is honestly maturing very, very well and he is soooo sweet so we'll see what happens!

Mellon gave you some very good advice! It really is best to focus on a flaw or two at a time and go from there.

Another thing to consider is...goats aren't really cheap to keep around! It costs the exact same to own a very low quality goat and an extremely nice, registered goat. The thing is, you'll get much, much more back from the high quality goat than the low quality goat - you might not even break even with low quality goat. I know some people have the money to keep pet goats around, and that's completely fine, but I don't, I count on my goats to "give back" so I can continue to do what I love (raising goats)! Slowly and steadily I hope to really improve my herd!

As hard as it is, culling is a huge part of goat breeding, especially when you want to better the breed. In order to help better the breed, you have to only keep (and breed) the best of the best and find homes for the ones that don't make the cut.

If you can expand your buck pen, great problem solved! If not, I know this is a really tough decision, but I think it would be a good idea to rehome one of you bucks and get another. That would be a fast way to get goats of higher quality. If you aren't able to do that, I completely understand - goats really do know how to steal our hearts <3! You will still have some really nice goats with the new doelings you'll be getting in the spring! I'm really excited to see how your herd develops! I also think it's awesome that we are in the same situation and can help each other out along the way!

Good luck and I hope this helps a little bit!


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> I am in a very similar boat as you. Got goats fours years ago for only pets - we weren't even going to breed or milk them. Last summer we bred one of our does and kept her doeling. I then decided that my plan was to just raise "backyard milkers" with very flashy colors and blue eyes. Well, now my plans are very different and I also want to better the breed, milk test, LA, get more registered goats, and so on. I as well live at home, but the goats are my goats because I pay and care for them a 100%. They only thing I don't (can't) do is drive to get more goats - thanks for doing that mom! Haha! Soon I will be able to.......though, that might be dangerous for the sake of goat math! Lol!
> 
> My current maximum pen/shelter space for does 4-6 and for bucks it's 2 maybe 3. My current herd consists of 4 does (2 pure ND, 2 ND/Pygmy mix) and 2 bucks (1 registered ND and the other is my neighbor's, it's a long story, but my buck is housed on my neighbors property). I'm pretty much already maxed out on goats and my herd is nowhere where I want it to be eventually. I really hope to get a very nice registered doeling or two this spring. I also know that I'm going to have to keep a doeling out of one of my does this spring because I won't be able to resist. So there's my problem - I need to make room by culling - eek! As of right now (I'm sure we all know how plans can change haha), I plan on rehoming my two ND/Pygmy does in the spring/summer because they are the worst quality in my herd. It's really hard for me to do that because they are two of my first goats - it does kinda help that one of them is a brat though - lol! If all goes as planned, I should be back down to 4-5 does/doelings next spring and some better quality to work with. My bucking is registered, but he's no THE best. I needed a buckling for breeding season this year and he was the best I could find. I didn't plan on keeping him for long, but now I'm reconsidering. I'll most likely keep him around for next breeding season and go from there. He is honestly maturing very, very well and he is soooo sweet so we'll see what happens!
> 
> ...


Thank you, it’s so nice knowing we’re in the same boat and I’m not the only one! Lol

I think my plan now is to wait until spring, buy two doelings and a high quality buckling and expand upon the buck pen we have now. Then I’ll be able to breed the high quality I want while also improving upon my existing herd, and if anyone is interested in pets AND show/breed standard, I’ll be the luckiest goat owner ever! 😂 it really saddens me seeing all the wethers that nobody wants, that’s my biggest fear I think. Not having anywhere to put the kids I put my time, love and effort into.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Yes to all the above! My goats have to pay for themselves. I'm in a living situation with a lot of family, and so I don't have as many expenses or as heavy a work load as I would if I were running a farm by myself. But the goats are my thing. I do the milking and the maintenance care myself, maintain the fences, pay for the hay, feed, vet bills, etc. If an animal is not paying for itself, I can't keep it around. The only exception to that is my wether, Huck, but he's also a very easy keeper, so it doesn't cost much to maintain him. 
If you keep track of your income and your outgoing expenses, you can pretty easily figure out how much you're spending per goat, and whether you can actually make money, or at least have your goats paying for themselves. There are usually a few high-maintenance goats in every herd, and you're going to end up paying extra for them. Those are the ones that you have to think long and hard about whether they're worth keeping or not. Those are hard decisions to make, but worth it if you're really committed to being successful. 
The cost of buying quality goats can be intimidating. So you have to decide if you're actually going to make enough from those goats to justify the investment. Of course, if there are other family members involved and helping you cover the expenses, you will have to be respectful of their input. 
I hope this helps! I know how hard it is to get rid of the goats that you're attached to. I recently sold a yearling buck that was born here. He was the biggest sweetheart, and I absolutely hated to let him go. But when I really was looking at the numbers, it did not make financial sense to keep him around.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You can always neuter your bucks, they will not be totally non-bucky- but they won't go into rut. They will be nice pets. Most people change their minds on goats.
Starting out with a nice sweet pet, then decide to go into milk or meat- its a constant changing of ideas. The best thing is to sit down and decide what you want to do,
the steps required to get there, the cost, how many goats you can comfortably keep, etc. Then decide who you absolutely have to keep of your current herd, who are 
not quite the nicest or have the best manners (the one(s) that if you were being brutally honest with yourself, you would like to not have), etc. 

It is hard to sell or get rid of goats, especially the buddies. But, no one can keep every single goat born, otherwise you will end up (like me! ) with way too many and have to
sell a bunch in order to make the hay last. (I kept too many last year kids, a few too many grand kid's pets and a few old ladies that will have a home until they pass). It's hard 
to sell a bunch, easier to sell one or 2 at a time. You will do fine- keep your end goal in mind, present your plan to the parents and go on from there! 

PS. Watch the "Goat Math". 2 or 4 goats suddenly in a few years time equals 20 or more goats!


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> I am in a very similar boat as you. Got goats fours years ago for only pets - we weren't even going to breed or milk them. Last summer we bred one of our does and kept her doeling. I then decided that my plan was to just raise "backyard milkers" with very flashy colors and blue eyes. Well, now my plans are very different and I also want to better the breed, milk test, LA, get more registered goats, and so on. I as well live at home, but the goats are my goats because I pay and care for them a 100%. They only thing I don't (can't) do is drive to get more goats - thanks for doing that mom! Haha! Soon I will be able to.......though, that might be dangerous for the sake of goat math! Lol!
> 
> My current maximum pen/shelter space for does 4-6 and for bucks it's 2 maybe 3. My current herd consists of 4 does (2 pure ND, 2 ND/Pygmy mix) and 2 bucks (1 registered ND and the other is my neighbor's, it's a long story, but my buck is housed on my neighbors property). I'm pretty much already maxed out on goats and my herd is nowhere where I want it to be eventually. I really hope to get a very nice registered doeling or two this spring. I also know that I'm going to have to keep a doeling out of one of my does this spring because I won't be able to resist. So there's my problem - I need to make room by culling - eek! As of right now (I'm sure we all know how plans can change haha), I plan on rehoming my two ND/Pygmy does in the spring/summer because they are the worst quality in my herd. It's really hard for me to do that because they are two of my first goats - it does kinda help that one of them is a brat though - lol! If all goes as planned, I should be back down to 4-5 does/doelings next spring and some better quality to work with. My bucking is registered, but he's no THE best. I needed a buckling for breeding season this year and he was the best I could find. I didn't plan on keeping him for long, but now I'm reconsidering. I'll most likely keep him around for next breeding season and go from there. He is honestly maturing very, very well and he is soooo sweet so we'll see what happens!
> 
> ...


Look at that long post........ My fingers would be dyinglol....


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

@Dandy Hill Farm hahah!!! The many times I HAVE to thank my mom LOL 😂😂😂😂 "Um, yeah mom thanks for taking me to get my 22th goat😋" LOL😂😂😂


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

@Kaitlyn Id just wait and see what happens. Myabe once you get a bigger pen you can get a really nice buck!


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> @Kaitlyn Id just wait and see what happens. Myabe once you get a bigger pen you can get a really nice buck!


That is the plan! Now just to find the right breeder...


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> That is the plan! Now just to find the right breeder...


Hopefully you can! Here, if it makes you feel better I have sone thinning to do too.

Check out my thread and you'll see!

Search-
*We are going to be downsizing this winter/coming spring*


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Lil Boogie said:


> Look at that long post........ My fingers would be dyinglol....


Lol! I honestly highly dislike writing really long things, but when it's about goats.....I have to make myself stop! 🤣


Lil Boogie said:


> @Dandy Hill Farm hahah!!! The many times I HAVE to thank my mom LOL 😂😂😂😂 "Um, yeah mom thanks for taking me to get my 22th goat😋" LOL😂😂😂


Yep, that's pretty much how it goes around here too, except, you own your mom a lot more than me! 😉😆😂


Kaitlyn said:


> That is the plan! Now just to find the right breeder...


The breeder you will be getting doelings from have some very awesome goats, maybe you can get an unrelated buckling from them as well.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Lol! I honestly highly dislike writing really long things, but when it's about goats.....I have to make myself stop! 🤣
> 
> Yep, that's pretty much how it goes around here too, except, you own your mom a lot more than me! 😉😆😂
> 
> The breeder you will be getting doelings from have some very awesome goats, maybe you can get an unrelated buckling from them as well.


Very true! I’m trying to branch out to find the right pairing, but honestly if I can’t find anywhere else then I may just go with that and get an unrelated buckling from them. May even post some pairings here if I find some I like and ask for your guys’s opinion!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Kaitlyn said:


> Very true! I’m trying to branch out to find the right pairing, but honestly if I can’t find anywhere else then I may just go with that and get an unrelated buckling from them. May even post some pairings here if I find some I like and ask for your guys’s opinion!


Sounds like a great idea!


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

I am also adding better stock for my Nubian side of things next spring. After searching online, I found goats suitable for what I really want. When you first get goats, I think everyone doesn’t really know what they want to do and if their starter goats are perfect for that! I didn’t know much about milking goats until I milked my Nubians. Over the past few months, I have figured out ways my future Nubians can be improved and have a better idea what to look for. You just don’t know what a good milker is like until you are trying to milk your own animals. I had some family friends over, and they and their kids were able to milk Flora. That’s the type of goat I’m striving for!

I noticed some people selling Nubians act like their goats and their teats are fantastic, but the goats they have are pretty much the same or even lower quality than my first time fresheners. Remember people are trying to sell their goats and frequently embellish or are ignorant of their flaws. Keep searching until you see an all around great animal whose parents are great as well. I have a couple choices unless my first picks don’t work out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the goats supporting themselves.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Alright! Decided to check out Thunder Ridge Ranch again and found a pairing I’m interested in. Now while the dam isn’t exactly what I’m looking for, it’s the sire that I’m really impressed with. His dam has some GREAT genetics, which I’m hoping he passes on to his kids. I could always ask for more photos and if he has any proven kids that pass on those good lines.

Dam:

















Sire:









Sires Dam:


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

I see what you mean. Sire’s side looks good, but the teats on the mom-to-be are lacking. Both my first time freshener Nigerians had small teats like that (udders looked pretty much identical to the dam Moon above), but milk came out very easily from Treasure’s teats while Shamrock’s were a complete struggle to get milk from. If she passes small teats AND difficulty to milk to the kids then she isn’t worth getting a kid from. If her teats are small but milk easily, that’s acceptable to ME depending on price range with plans to improve the teats in future breedings depending on what her kids are like.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Emrcornerranch said:


> I see what you mean. Sire’s side looks good, but the teats on the mom-to-be are lacking. Both my first time freshener Nigerians had small teats like that (udders looked pretty much identical to the dam Moon above), but milk came out very easily from Treasure’s teats while Shamrock’s were a complete struggle to get milk from. If she passes small teats AND difficulty to milk to the kids then she isn’t worth getting a kid from. If her teats are small but milk easily, that’s acceptable to ME depending on price range with plans to improve the teats in future breedings depending on what her kids are like.


That’s my exact worry. I already have a doe with small teats, if I got a buckling from her I wouldn’t want him to pass on that same trait. Plus the medial isn’t exactly desirable either.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Here’s another pairing! The udders on these ones... wow. Just wow! 

dam:

















Sire:









Sires Dam:


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

Kaitlyn said:


> Here’s another pairing! The udders on these ones... wow. Just wow!
> 
> dam:
> View attachment 215986
> ...


That’s better for sure!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

I agree, the doe's udder from the first pairing is not the best. The buck has some awesome genetics though! I think even a kid out of this pair will be an improvement to your current herd.

Wow. The second pair is fantastic!! Are they also from Thunder Ridge Ranch? I know the doe is a Mossy Rock goat - love, love, her goats!!! I would definitely get on a reservation list for this pairing if possible!


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> I agree, the doe's udder from the first pairing is not the best. The buck has some awesome genetics though! I think even a kid out of this pair will be an improvement to your current herd.
> 
> Wow. The second pair is fantastic!! Are they also from Thunder Ridge Ranch? I know the doe is a Mossy Rock goat - love, love, her goats!!! I would definitely get on a reservation list for this pairing if possible!


I got on a reservation list for the second pairing! They’re from Key Hill Farm. Super excited!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Wooohooo!! That's awesome!


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Oou exciting! Stunning pairing!


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Lol! I honestly highly dislike writing really long things, but when it's about goats.....I have to make myself stop! 🤣
> 
> Yep, that's pretty much how it goes around here too, except, you own your mom a lot more than me! 😉😆😂
> 
> The breeder you will be getting doelings from have some very awesome goats, maybe you can get an unrelated buckling from them as well.


Hahhahah!!😆😆😆😆😂😂😂


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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