# Need help asap



## GiGismomma (Jun 7, 2012)

I have a doe that has been struggling with pregnancy toxemia. She is very near and dear to our hearts so we are doing EVERYTHING to save her. She 11 days from her due date as of today, 2-25-13. She can still stand up with a little assistance and is being fed by drenching. We felt as though her best bet was too get the babies out so we induced at 9:30 Saturday night with dexamethasone. She seemed to had started mild contractions last night around 10 and has kept herself fairly moist since then. The last of her 48 hours will be tonight at 9:30. I'm scared she is not going to deliver or that something is stuck. Please help!! I know the babies have a very rare chance of surviving and so does mom but I want to do everything I can to save her.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have a vet you can call? It sounds like a situation where you would want to be able to get the vet out if things aren't going well. I would just watch for her dilating ok. I'm not familiar with using dexamethasone to abort. I have only ever used Estrumate or Lutalyse.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

are you giving her Propylene glycol ? Calcium? If not do so now...molasses, nutra drench something to give her energy...I would put in a call to your vet...she may need help if she is too weak to eat..


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

11 days they are in my opinion very survivable. But maybe the dexamethoszone is not enough to put her in labor. She may need another dose or she may need lutalyse. Dex is a great choice because it can help mature the lungs of the premiture kids. Do you have a vet on stand by? I would ask the vet about another dose of dex. Keep drenching her. Is she off of all hay? 
What have you been drenchign her with. 
make sure she is staying hydrated. 
get some IV fluids from vet if she isn't drinking at least 2 gallons a day and run them under her skin. 
Have you given her calcium?


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Pat Coleby:



> *Pregnancy Toxemia*
> This condition usually arises shortly before kidding. It is due to the kids in utero (usually multiples) taking all the nutrients (mainly minerals) available and eventually leaving the doe insufficient to sustain life. Nature always gives priority to the kids - the mother has to manage as best she can. The initial signs of pregnancy toxemia can go unnoticed unless the goat keeper is alert; a slight unwillingness to get up in the morning or go out is often the first indication. This is followed by extreme lethargy to the point where the doe cannot rise at all. The more deficient she is, the earlier the toxemia starts.
> Goats that have been on good remineralized pastures and been properly fed through pregnancy with all their minerals and normal feed should not suffer from this complaint even when there are multiples _in utero_.
> Regrettably there are still some people who think that a pregnant goat, if dry, does not need feeding. This is not true (nor is it true of humans). CAE-positive does, or those of very advanced years, may develop pregnancy toxemia even when properly fed - although my 10-year-old-plus does never did so. Another contributory factor is lack of exercise. It is most important that pregnant does are sent out to find their feed in the paddock with other does; too much hand feeding can make them lazy.
> ...


BTW, VAM is vitamins, amino acids, and minerals.


----------



## GiGismomma (Jun 7, 2012)

I am giving her shots of calcium every few hours which seems to be helping with her strength. I have been drenching with a power punch and water mixture, baby food (her usual pellets soaked in water) and, dextrose every hour. Called the vet and he told me to give her another dose of the dexamethasone. I don't know how to check if she is dilated or not


----------



## GiGismomma (Jun 7, 2012)

She is getting propylene glycol and nipples on hay every now and again. Not much, I'm pretty much spoon feeding every ounce of nutrition she is getting. Breathing is pretty normal, a little heavier. Babies still kicking


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Be careful you don't give her acidosis with all those sugar prodects. Add some baking soda to the drench a couple times. We gave calcium Gluconate at the rate of 45 cc twice a day the first day and then one time the next day. How much have you given her? WE don't put more than 12 to 15 cc in the same location. It is possible to over due it. Did you just start giving her the calcium today? 

She is eating her pellets soaked in water or are you syringe feeding her those as well? 

I heard of someone suggesting creamed corn, I haven't tried it, but I beat that is a mess to drench. 
also, someone said they were grinding up hay and adding water and drenching with that. That also sounds like a mess. 
To add protein to a drench you can do Vanilla yogurt(not light) an egg and thin with water. And drench with that. It is a nice change from all the sugar based drenches and adds more protein to their diet. 

It is actually a good thing she didn't go into labor from the first dose. that will help get the kids lungs stronger for delivery. Some people will give a couple lower dosages of dex to build up the lungs and then a bigger dose to induce labor. 
I am asuming you have some bottle feeding products available and a tube feeding kit available. If not Iwould know where to get that stuff or go and buy it. Tube feeding kits are cheap and well worth it. Pritchard nipples for bottle feeding are great for new borns. 

Make her big hiney get up and give her exercise everytime you are out there. Exercise is very ver important. Even if it is just getting her to stand. 

what breed is she?



What breed is she?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Here is a really long article about pregnancy toxemia for you to read and print off. It has some great info. 

*PregnancyCare & Concerns* 

​


*Pregnancy Toxemia and ketosis*
By Robin Walters
Oct 28, 2002, 10:07am
Email this article
Printer friendly page​ 
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2178/toxemia.html 
Robin Walters

Pregnancy toxemia and ketosis are the result of the high carbohydrate 
(energy) demand of multiple fetuses in late pregnancy. The kids require an 
increasing amount of carbohydrates the last trimester. Does bearing twins 
have a 180% higher energy requirement than those with just a single fetus. 
Does carrying triplets have a 240% greater energy requirement. When this 
demand exceeds the supply, fat is metabolized into glucose. The metabolic 
needs of the kids are met at the expense of the dam; this is what causes the 
ketotic condition. To complicate matters, multiple fetuses produce more 
waste products, which leads to the doe becoming toxic if she does not flush 
them from her system.

Risk Factors for Pregnancy Toxemia 
Multiple fetuses 
Poor quality of ingested energy 
Dietary energy level 
Environment 
Genetic factors 
Obesity 
Lack of good body condition or high parasite load 
Confinement - lack of exercise

Toxemia and ketosis are typically seen in does that are overweight and get 
little exercise. Under weight animals that are fed a poor quality feed are 
also candidates for toxemia. Look for does at the bottom and top of the 
pecking order. These does may be getting to much or not enough feed. Does 
should be in good body condition, and not overly fat when bred. They can be 
maintained on good roughage or forage during the first 100 days of 
pregnancy. During the last trimester the doe should gain approximately 1/2 
lb. per day. The doe must intake enough carbohydrates to supply the demand 
of the growing fetuses and to keep her alive and functioning also.

I also believe that you see an increase in toxemia during extended drought 
or rainy conditions. Severe weather conditions cause the quality of the feed 
change, limits and changes the available browse, and the animals do not 
receive the vitamins and minerals that they get naturally from high quality 
feeds and browse. Extremely wet conditions, especially if following a 
prolonged drought can also cause a dramatic and quick increase in the worm 
load, and cause the doe to drop enough body condition to become a candidate 
for toxemia.

When there is a decrease of glucose levels in the doe's brain, they tend to 
lie down, become sluggish, and show a loss of appetite. They may get stiff, 
and walk with a staggering gait. Swelling (edema) of the lower limbs is not 
uncommon. Some does may also grind their teeth. Keto-acidosis is also common 
during toxemia and needs to be treated daily. As the disease progresses, the 
neurological systems become compromised due to lack of glucose. Blindness, 
stargazing, tremors, aimless walking, ataxia (uncoordinated staggering 
gait), are seen and eventually the doe becomes comatose. At this stage the 
fetuses succumb and release toxins that send the doe into endotoxic shock, 
and death. Does that survive toxemia need to be watched for dystocia, and 
lactational ketosis.

Diet should include high quality roughage and increased concentrates. At 
first sign of decreased appetite, or unwillingness to rise, managers need to 
be wary. Exercise should be offered and forced if necessary. Some type of 
high-energy supplement needs to be given to keep the doe from coming 
ketotic. The carbohydrate (energy) level of the diet needs to be increased. 
This can be accomplished by adding corn, fresh alfalfa hay, or a soybean 
supplement to the diet. Increasing the protein does not necessarily increase 
the energy level.

High Energy Supplements 
Propylene Glycol 
Nutri-drench 
Dextrose 
TKM Solution 
Magic (1 part Molasses, 2 parts Kayro, 1 part Corn Oil) 
Glucose IV 
If the kids are within 7 days of due date, and the doe does not respond 
immediately to treatment, giving 20-25mg dexamethasone can induce labor. 
Labor will begin within 48 hours. Dexamethasone is preferred over hormonal 
induction of parturition because of its beneficial stimulus to appetite. 
Also, dexamethasone may also prepare the lungs of marginally immature kids 
increasing their chances of survival during labor or cesarean. Valuable does 
that fail to respond within 24 hours should have a cesarean immediately. 
Even with surgery and fluids, prognosis is poor for the survival of both the 
doe and kids. If valuable does don't respond to treatment early termination 
of the pregnancy should be considered.

The key to treating toxemia is catching the subtle symptoms promptly. Fist 
concern is to hydrate the doe and get enough sugars to the brain to get if 
functioning properly. We have been successful treating does with the 
following mixture:

TKM Solution 
3- 500ml bottles Dextrose 
3- 500ml bottles of Amino Acid Solution (not concentrate) 
1 - 500ml bottle Calcium Glutenate 23% 
(This can be mixed up ahead of time & stored in a cool dry place) 
The goat also needs to receive the following - they need to be added when 
you get ready to administer the dose: 
Fortified B Complex - 5ml daily 
Thiamine - daily 
Vitamin C & E Supplements - daily 
Probiotics - I give a double calf dose every time I treat. If this doesn't 
stimulate their appetite, add 1 teaspoon of baking soda daily (add after you 
have mixed everything together!) 
I prefer the Loveland Industries Calf Pak for probiotics. When choosing 
probiotics make sure you purchase one that contains viable (live) 
probiotics. Be careful in handling probiotics; don't leave out in extreme 
heat or cold. The refrigerator is a good place to store them. For the 
Vitamins I have had a lot of success using Capra Products Capra-Tech 100 to 
provide the C & E, and the Capra Cool for the thiamin & additional 
probiotics. This seems like a remarkable amount of probiotics, but you are 
fighting a metabolic disorder that is on going. You will not cure it, but 
you can add support to enable the doe to live through pregnancy and 
hopefully deliver live kids. We give 20-60cc magic twice daily at first 
signs of toxemia. If the doe is completely off feed or becoming lethargic we 
give a loading dose of 4-8oz. of the TK Solution. It is then repeated every 
hour (2-4oz.) until the doe is standing, drinking, and urinating. We have 
also found it helpful to give an equal amount of water (drench if necessary) 
at every treatment. Once these does quit moving, they don't get up and 
drink, as they should.

Be cautious given electrolytes or products that are high in sodium or 
potassium. Although in a pinch they will work to hydrate the animal, you 
don't want to give long term anything that has a lot of potassium in it. 
That is why we use the dextrose instead of oral electrolytes. You need to 
make sure that the doe urinates, giving a mild diuretic such as cranberry 
juice may also be helpful. The does need to flush the toxins from their 
system.

When the doe starts to respond we start decreasing the treatment intervals. 
Treatment is dropped to 3-4 times a day, and if the doe is back on her feed 
and eating well, we just give the magic mixture two to three times daily. We 
have treated does successfully with 100-500ml of the TKM solution given 
daily. Amount needed varies with each individual doe. The doe may scour the 
first couple of days & Pepto-Bismol or Kaopectate can be given to relieve 
the dietary scours. Don't be terribly concerned if the doe scours it is 
caused by the drastic dietary changes and will clear up as the doe continues 
to eat.

Propylene glycol can be given orally at the rate of 4 ounces, 4 times daily. 
Nutri-drench can be substituted for propylene glycol, and is easier to dose 
orally - it doesn't taste quite as offensive to the doe. Intravenous glucose 
(25-50 grams - in a 5 or 10% solution), and B Vitamins, can also be given. 
If probiotics are not available give baking soda orally to prevent acidosis 
these need to be given at least once a day. Dextrose (50%) can be given IV 
in a single 60-100ml dose, followed by a 5% dextrose solution in an 
electrolyte drip.

Keto-acidocis is precipitated by metabolism of fat. When the doe is not 
consuming an adequate amount of carbohydrate, that she metabolizes fat to 
make glucose. The byproduct of this is ketones, which must be secreted by 
the kidneys. The doe must have a fluid intake to allow this to happen. That 
is why plain water is given, drenched, or tubed, along with the 50% glucose, 
and other support therapy. When enough glucose is present, fat is not 
metabolized, and the body has time to get rid of it. As this happens, the 
doe will become more alert, and start to eat and drink on her own. This is a 
vicious cycle, and difficult to break. If caught early, and treated 
conscientiously, the cycle can be broken. The doe must be monitored 
carefully until the kids are born, condition can change quickly and needs to 
be responded in a timely fashion.

Does that have prolonged battles with toxemia and/or ketosis sometimes have 
difficulty kidding. Dystocia is common due to the lack of exercise. The 
uterus tends to loose muscle tone and often the kids must be pulled. The 
does lack condition or energy to birth them unassisted. After kidding I feel 
it is very important to leave the kids with the doe, even if you have to 
supplement them. The kids will stimulate the doe's will to live. Continue 
treatment three to four days after kidding to prevent a relapse.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Here is a great link about tube feeding. 
http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb1998/eb1998.pdf


----------



## GiGismomma (Jun 7, 2012)

She is a boer. She is getting 10 cc of calcium in two different places every 4-6 hours. We are syringing the baby food. Where can I get the tube feeding kit?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

any farm store will carry it. I would for sure have one on hand with premies on the way.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im right there with 20kidsonhill.....nothing to add really ..: ) Just you are doing great...: )


----------



## GiGismomma (Jun 7, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:


> 11 days they are in my opinion very survivable. But maybe the dexamethoszone is not enough to put her in labor. She may need another dose or she may need lutalyse. Dex is a great choice because it can help mature the lungs of the premiture kids. Do you have a vet on stand by? I would ask the vet about another dose of dex. Keep drenching her. Is she off of all hay?
> What have you been drenchign her with.
> make sure she is staying hydrated.
> get some IV fluids from vet if she isn't drinking at least 2 gallons a day and run them under her skin.
> Have you given her calcium?


Have you ever had any this early? The vet flat out told me that they are too premature and that ill have to work extremely hard if i want them to have a chance.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't think I have had any right at that time. our vet told us anything with in 10 days stands a chance. I have followed some others stories and they have saved them this young. It is a lot of work. I wouldn't expect for them to just stand up and start nursing. I would think if you can get a suck reflex that would be really really good. But I would be prepared to tube feed them. If they can sit up and hold their heads up they will have a chance. Let me ask a couple other people that I know.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

be sure not to let the babies lay flat on their side...its important they upright...use rolled up towels to pop them up..being prepared is 1/2 the battle....you may need to warm them up so have heating pad ready...blow dryer to dry them and warm them up....a draft free place to sleep...Mom will still need a lot of help after too...you will have a long road..but I have a feeling if any one can do it..you can : )


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am praying for your doe and her babies! We had babies that were 3 weeks premature and one lived for 12 hours, so @ 10 days, and the steroid shot, and closer to kidding date, hopefully your little ones will stand a chance! 

I have no real experience, but I'd say, have heating pads, and blow dryers ready and extra hands to help. 

Please keep us updated! Prayers going your way!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I think the doe has been taken in for a c-section.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

dunno whats happening with this doe, wish i had seen it earlier. the thing with dex is that it wont induce labour unless the kids are full term. my guess here is that these kids arent ready hence the dex hasnt worked. lute on the other hand will induce/abort regardless of the viability of the kids. generally a combination of lute and dex (to.mature lungs) is used, or lute only. with a doe this sick with preg tox i would say use the lute regardless of whether the kids are too early, its important to save the doe. 

i also want to say that the extract from pat colby has some very misleading information. pregnancy toxaemia is not a mieral deficiency. it is the build up of a toxic compound in the goats system called ketones. i have written about it on this forum before so if you search.my.name and pregnancy toxaemia you should find it. 

i really hope this doe is doing ok.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

She survived and had triplets that are also alive after having a c-section.


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

that is great to hear!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have goose bumps!!!! Such good news : ) congrats...


----------



## Wlschwallenberg (Jan 4, 2013)

Amazing! Such great news!


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

brilliant


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good to hear.


----------

