# Critique my does



## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

I actually just brought my does home yesterday, after having them tested for TB and having their health papers done! They are both registered American Alpines. The first one has less of a showy appearance, but I still like her  Give me your thoughts about the does!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

They are nice does! I will critique both when I get a chance


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

Oh and here are the links to their pedigrees: http://adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001575549 http://adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001659472 Gypsy apparently had a LA (VV+V) done previously on her.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Doe one
Pros
Strong brisket 
Deep bodied
Nice blending into the neck
Looks a little wider than the seconds doe
Uphill

Cons
Front legs aren't as straight and smooth as second doe 
Short rump
Steep rump
Short bodied


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Doe two

Pros
More smoothly blended overall
Strong brisket
Nice front end
Not a perfect rump but it is longer and more level than doe one

Cons
Not as deep and wide as first doe but she looks younger and some of that should improve with maturity.

I'm not a pro though 

They look like overall nice does


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Here ya go, first doe-
Cons:
~slightly posty rear legs
~stronger rear end/hind legs
~longer rump
~More level rump
~Thurls could be set a little farther back
~Sharper withers
~More level over the topline
~Smoother blending in the front end assembly/ shoulders/brisket
Pros
~Pretty Alpine head
~Clean well sculpted nostrils
~Long neck
~Dairy neck
~Very nice brisket
~Deep chest 
~Wide powerful chest
~Strong front pasterns
~Strong front legs
~Straight front legs
~Good width between front legs (from what I can tell)
~Good uphill stance
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~Good depth to heart girth
~Good depth to barrel
~Good body capacity
~Strong rear legs
~Strong rear pasterns
~Good width between hocks
~Strong squarely set rear legs
~Good width to rump
~Good width throughout


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Doe #1:

Pros:
-Absolutely LOVE her markings & coloring!! Plus she's good at expressions 
-Nice ear set
-Wide forehead
-Nice width in muzzle
-Long jaw
-Good depth in jaw
-Clean throat latch
-Sharp withers
-Ok shoulder assembly
-Neck blends fairly well into shoulder
-Ok brisket
-Real nice front legs
-Sturdy, strong front legs
-Good bone pattern
-Front legs placed squarely below shoulder
-Lots and lots of depth! Wow
-Great depth in heart girth
-Good depth in whole barrel
-Strong chine
-Strong topline
-Level topline
-I think she has decent body length, but it's hard to tell cause she's got so much depth
-Nice rump length
-Hocks ad pins line up
-Nice angle to hind legs
-Strong hind legs
-Overall fairly well blended
-Clean, feminine
-Uphill
-She looks like a real good maternal doe
-Nice even width in rump from hips to pins
-Good width between hocks
-Even thurls


Cons:
-Short neck
-Neck could blend more smoothly into withers
-Brisket could blend more smoothly with neck and shoulder
-Shoulders look a tad loose
-Elbows could be tighter
-Chest floor could be smoother
-Rump could be a tad less angled
-Toes out slightly in rear


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

There, you got a real nice, well done critique on her now! :lol:


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

CPK and Margaret, thanks so much for a lengthy critique on my one doe!! and yes CPK it is hard to tell from the photos, but she is short bodied. I wish she didn't have that much of a ewe neck, but I really like both of the does!!! I couldn't resist these great does for an affordable price! :stars::grin:


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I'll do the other doe tomorrow


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

2nd doe:

Pros:
-Overall appearance is more refined and dairy like
-Nice long jaw
-Good depth in jaw
-Nice ear set
-Well shaped nostrils
-Clean neck
-Good neck length
-Feminine neck
-Good brisket
-Good shoulder assembly
-Front legs well positioned under shoulder
-Nice clean front legs
-Strong front legs
-Nice bone pattern
-Good chest floor
-Tight elbows - at least tighter then doe #1
-Good depth in heart girth
-Sharp withers
-Strong chine
-Strong topline
-Ok depth of barrel
-Ok rump length
-Fairly well balanced
-Uphill
-Feminine appearance
-Well blended overall
-Even rump width
-Good width between hocks
-Looks to have good width in chest
-Nice rear arch
-Even width shoulders-to-hips

Cons:
-Throat latch could be smoother
-Neck could blend a bit more smoothly into brisket & withers
-Could have more body capacity
-Could have more body length
-Something about her hq is just "off" I'm not sure exactly what
-Steep rump
-Tail head positioned too low
-Spine curves up between hips
-Hq assembly could be stronger
-Looks to toe out slightly fore and rear

Both are very pretty girls  Bred to a good buck you could get some real nice kids!

Ok, Margaret! Your turn http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

Thanks again! What does hq mean? They are both bred to different bucks, the first doe is bred to Cherry Glen Gentry Google, and the second doe to Delta- Rho Spart's Sweetwilliam.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Wait, really?
Google is the buck I'm getting this month and I own several Willie kids! They're from Sweet Flowers, right? 
Are you from Virginia?


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Both of those bucks are very nice, you should get nice kids from them. 
If you picked them up on Tuesday I was at the farm breeding a doe that day. I believe I saw you when you pulled out, we were there around 3:00.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Dairy_goat said:


> Thanks again! What does hq mean?


Sorry, it's short for Hindquarter


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Hey, our goats are related, through the grapevine  I like them both, main area's to fix when breeding is use a buck that is taller in the hindquarters, and longer bodied for the 1st doe. For the 2nd doe, I would look for a bit more uphill buck, longer bodied, and a more level rump. 
Nice looking girls overall, love the colors too


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

Margaret- I guess its a small world! lol  My family was picking up two does from Sweet Flowers farm! I think I saw people breeding a doe to Google when I left!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Google is a REALLY long buck! Willie not as much, he's taller. I'm good friends with their breeder and she has gotten some nice kids from both bucks.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Yep, that was me!
The first one is Gypsy, right? I own her half sister!


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

Yes- the first doe is Gypsy. That is so cool! Half sibling from the dam or sire?


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

The have the same sire
Looking over the pedigrees, let's just say your does are very closely related to mine!
The 2 y/o is my doe Poppy's granddaughter! You are very lucky to have her, Plumeria's dam Nasturtium is the only surviving purebred daughter out of Poppy and Poppy will be 9 in the spring. I'm desperately hoping to get a doe kid from her while she is still producing kids. Nasturtium was born before I bought Poppy.
This is Poppy-







I have actually had many of Gyspy's half sisters, I only have one left now. Sweet Flowers used her sire Alex for several years and so did I and Gypsy was one of the few kids from him that actually turned out quite nicely.
I have used Wille on a few does too, and one of my herdsires is his son. And Google will be my third herdsire when I get a chance to pick him up!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Plumeria

Cons
~short bodied
~Short rump
~rather steep rump
~Could use more depth to barrel but that should come with age, she's only an FF
~Neck could be a tad leaner and smoother in the throat junction
~Very slight toe out in front
~Stronger set to the rear legs would be nice, can't quite figure out what's wrong with them though.

Pros
~Very feminine looking throughout
~Good dairy character
~Long neck
~smoothly blended front end 
~Good brisket
~strong front legs
~very pretty head
~head is feminine and dairy yet strong 
~broad jaw
~Well sculpted nostrils
~not ewe necked like Gypsy is
~Sharp withers
~strong topline
~Level topline
~strong chine
~Good anuglarity to the rear legs
~Uphill
~Strong front pasterns
~Strong rear pasterns 
~Good width throughout
~Nice wide rump
~nice arch to escutcheon
~Well blended
~Ears set well
~Nice set to rear legs
~good width between hocks


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

Poppy is a nice doe! How old can they get until you need to stop breeding them? I am just curious as I have some older does. I am just starting up my herd, so I think I am going to keep all the doelings from my three Alpines, at least temporarily so I can show them  We might cross roads somewhere this year because I plan to show quite a bit through ADGA!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Thank you! It depends on the doe, but around 12 with a good healthy doe. I have a 10 year old that is still going strong
I would keep some doelings out of your Sweet Flowers does, the bucks they are bred to are really nice
Right now the plans for 2016 for us are the NCDGBA Spring show in Rocky Mt over Memorial Day weekend, possibly the Evin Evans Spring show in Shelby, either the NC Mt State Fair in September or the Dixie Classic in October, Nationals in July and The NC State Fair in October.


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## Dairy_goat (Apr 11, 2015)

I know I have gone completely off topic, but I think I will be doing shows in Virginia. I might make it down to NC next year to show! I just don't think I can wait 3 more months for my does to kid and come into milk! :hair:


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

I think the prob with#2 hq is the angle of photo and she is standing on a slight slope... So she leaning in to her stance making her appear a bit posty, and kinda flat on rear leg angulation. 
Pretty does I love there heads. I know there are no points there but I am always drawn to head first. 
We have a short body doe that we bred to a very long tall buck and she had a nice long beautiful doe kid


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