# Baby Goat with no appetite!



## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

We have a baby goat that was born on Saturday. His mother was pushing for the last few days after his birth and unfortunately passed yesterday. We are not sure why, but suspect a retained placenta since she was pushing? Afterwards, we took her baby in and started bottle feeding 4 oz every 2-4 hours, which today turned into 4.5 oz every 4 hours. I fed him around 5 times yesterday and he was always hungry, crying for more and suckling on our hands or searching for more milk. Today, I fed him at 6am and 10am, and then attempted to feed him around 2 but he didn’t want it. I waited for an hour and tried again but no luck. His feces have changed from orange to dark brown, which are longer clumped pellets. I gave him an enema with mineral oil and warm water in case he is constipated, and he passed a bit of stool after. Then I gave him an ounce of milk at 5:00pm. Should I continue the enemas? Urine output is constant but stool seems hard.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost mom. She may have had a retained dead kid.

What does the little guy weigh? What are you feeding him?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Sorry you lost mom. She may have had a retained dead kid.
> 
> What does the little guy weigh? What are you feeding him?


Thank you, she was a beautiful mixed alpine goat. She was also very big so it may have been a retained kid. I'm not sure his weight but I'll check right now. We have an alpine that we milk, and that's the milk I've been feeding him.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Sorry you lost mom. She may have had a retained dead kid.
> 
> What does the little guy weigh? What are you feeding him?


He is six pounds.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

You may have been overfeeding a little bit yesterday but it's tough to say. After a bottle, his stomach sides should be flush to his back legs or just slightly rounded, but you don't want him to have a big round ball shaped stomach after a bottle. Some folks follow volume rules for bottle feeds, various recommendations between 10-20% of body weight in ounces as goat kids really can be prone to overeating and will act hungry! At 6lbs, that would be 10-20 ounces of milks per day, broke into feedings as you had. Other folks like to let them finish when they want, within reason, and use stomach shape to judge. 

Be sure to heat it up to 100*F to aid digestion and encourage him. That's hotter than a human baby bottle. 

I would perform another very warm enema to see if he passes more.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> You may have been overfeeding a little bit yesterday but it's tough to say. After a bottle, his stomach sides should be flush to his back legs or just slightly rounded, but you don't want him to have a big round ball shaped stomach after a bottle. Some folks follow volume rules for bottle feeds, various recommendations between 10-20% of body weight in ounces as goat kids really can be prone to overeating and will act hungry! At 6lbs, that would be 10-20 ounces of milks per day, broke into feedings as you had. Other folks like to let them finish when they want, within reason, and use stomach shape to judge.
> 
> Be sure to heat it up to 100*F to aid digestion and encourage him. That's hotter than a human baby bottle.
> 
> I would perform another very warm enema to see if he passes more.


Ok, thank you for the reply! I made sure it was 100 F with a thermometer each time, and his stomach wasn't rounded whatsoever yesterday, which was weird to me. Should I try to feed again?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I would offer another bottle of 2-4 ounces and if he refused, try the enema again. Unless he has pooped more since the last enema?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> I would offer another bottle of 2-4 ounces and if he refused, try the enema again. Unless he has pooped more since the last enema?


He took 3 oz and is now sleeping. I did not have to force it down, he willingly took it and willingly stopped as well. He pooped a tad after but not anything substantial. I'm going to keep checking on him for more.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Some babies can eat more while others can't digest it fast enough. At 6 pounds I would srart him at 2.5 oz 4 times a day. After each bottle stand him up and see how his tummy looks and feels. As Salty said..flat but firm is the goal. Not too poochy and never sunken in. If he needs a little more then go to 3 oz fours times a day. Babies will guilt you into giving more..so be strong. Re weigh every 3-4 days and adjust milk as needed.
If he doesn't have a good poop,, Give another enema will help clean him out and he will be ready to eat.
I'm very sorry about his mama passing.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Some babies can eat more while others can't digest it fast enough. At 6 pounds I would srart him at 2.5 oz 4 times a day. After each bottle stand him up and see how his tummy looks and feels. As Salty said..flat but firm is the goal. Not too poochy and never sunken in. If he needs a little more then go to 3 oz fours times a day. Babies will guilt you into giving more..so be strong. Re weigh every 3-4 days and adjust milk as needed.
> If he doesn't have a good poop,, Give another enema will help clean him out and he will be ready to eat.
> I'm very sorry about his mama passing.


Ok, I'll start that routine tomorrow. I never reheat more milk, but he is smaller so it makes more sense to give less. He does not have scouts so I'm happy about that.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Some babies can eat more while others can't digest it fast enough. At 6 pounds I would srart him at 2.5 oz 4 times a day. After each bottle stand him up and see how his tummy looks and feels. As Salty said..flat but firm is the goal. Not too poochy and never sunken in. If he needs a little more then go to 3 oz fours times a day. Babies will guilt you into giving more..so be strong. Re weigh every 3-4 days and adjust milk as needed.
> If he doesn't have a good poop,, Give another enema will help clean him out and he will be ready to eat.
> I'm very sorry about his mama passing.


He went all night without milk and I just tried feeding him, but spotted no poops! He didn't take the milk but sat back down and started crying. I gave him 5ccs mineral oil and water as an enema at 6:40, but nothing has passed. Not even water or oil. Should I do another 5ccs? He wanted to drink right after I gave the enema but I think it's wise to not give him any more milk. His tummy still seems like I just fed him...


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

And should I give him some milk if magnesia? 
he stands up and pushes, I can tell because he’s just so still but his belly is contracting. However, nothing comes out


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

I feel a hard ball where I’m pressing, but I’m not sure what that is. And this is his stance


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

When I do an enema. I use oil and warm water..i gently fill baby up until a little enema squirts back out. Massage tummy and let baby walk around. If he pushes enema out with no poop..i put more enema fluid in. Usually produces a good amount of poop with minutes but can take 30-40 minutes when really plugged up. Keep trying..he needs that poop out.
MoM is 1/4cc per pound..wont hurt to give


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> When I do an enema. I use oil and warm water..i gently fill baby up until a little enema squirts back out. Massage tummy and let baby walk around. If he pushes enema out with no poop..i put more enema fluid in. Usually produces a good amount of poop with minutes but can take 30-40 minutes when really plugged up. Keep trying..he needs that poop out.
> MoM is 1/4cc per pound..wont hurt to give


I gave him his second enema and a good bit squirted out after. Can no longer feel that hardened ball, and I think the first enema softened it considerably over the last hour. 
Just fed him 2.5 oz. He's content now, no longer crying or straining. Will keep checking, I think he'll be ok but it's hard to tell!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh good!! He may need enemas for a few days until he poops well on his own. Be sure to put a pinch of baking soda in his first bottle of the day. 

Best wishes


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yep definitely don't be afraid to use more than 5cc of liquid during the enema. When I've had to do them for a bottle baby, I would put in 5-10 cc, then make them walk around for a few minutes, if no action, put another 5-10cc, and repeat several times. I use very very warm water with canola oil.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice given.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Yep definitely don't be afraid to use more than 5cc of liquid during the enema. When I've had to do them for a bottle baby, I would put in 5-10 cc, then make them walk around for a few minutes, if no action, put another 5-10cc, and repeat several times. I use very very warm water with canola oil.


Over the last two days, he's extremely hungry so I've been feeding him 2.5-3oz every 4 hours, checking his tummy. Overnight, he's in a bin so I can tell where his poop goes...but it hasn't gone? I can't see any stool at all and it's been 24 hours since the last enema. He is not pacing anymore. I think I'm going to do more enemas just in case.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I also massage the rumen - left side to try to get things moving. Walk him as much as you can. keep an eye on his temp to make sure his rumen is not shutting down. You want at least 101 before feeding.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Tasnigoat2 said:


> Over the last two days, he's extremely hungry so I've been feeding him 2.5-3oz every 4 hours, checking his tummy. Overnight, he's in a bin so I can tell where his poop goes...but it hasn't gone? I can't see any stool at all and it's been 24 hours since the last enema. He is not pacing anymore. I think I'm going to do more enemas just in case.


It sounds to me like he's not getting enough to eat. He won't poop if he's undernourished. 3 oz. every 4 hours is only 18 oz. in 24 hours. A 6 lb. kid usually eats a lot more than that, especially now that he's almost a week old. I don't raise bottle babies, but from what I remember of the few I've had, kids that age are usually finishing a 16 oz. bottle at each meal, and I feed them 3 meals/day. Healthy growing babies drink a LOT of milk so I really think the lack of poop that started as constipation may now be due to not enough milk. Too little milk can also cause dehydration which in turn causes constipation.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Damfino said:


> It sounds to me like he's not getting enough to eat. He won't poop if he's undernourished. 3 oz. every 4 hours is only 18 oz. in 24 hours. A 6 lb. kid usually eats a lot more than that, especially now that he's almost a week old. I don't raise bottle babies, but from what I remember of the few I've had, kids that age are usually finishing a 16 oz. bottle at each meal, and I feed them 3 meals/day. Healthy growing babies drink a LOT of milk so I really think the lack of poop that started as constipation may now be due to not enough milk. Too little milk can also cause dehydration which in turn causes constipation.


Oh wow...I did 4 oz before and continued this because there were no scours. Someone kindly advised me to lower that amount to 2.5 oz so I've been doing about 3 oz now. You may be right, but I'm a bit confused as to what to do. I'm going to start these enemas because he is digesting the milk, but it's all stuck


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How does his tummy feel after his bottle? 16 oz at this age and weight..i don't agree at all. He was constipated most likely due to over feeding to begin with. I wouldnt begin to up his milk too much just yet. Keep with the enemas until he's pooping well by himself. Sometimes they get really backed up and need time. Always feel his tummy after a bottle..flat but firm..not too poochy.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> How does his tummy feel after his bottle? 16 oz at this age and weight..i don't agree at all. He was constipated most likely due to over feeding to begin with. I wouldnt begin to up his kilk too much just yet. Keep with the enemas until he's pooping well by himself. Sometimes they get really backed up and need time. Always feel his tummy after a bottle..flat but firm..not too poochy.


I'm been following the flat with firm method. 2.5-3 oz seems perfect. He did have to switch abruptly between his mother's milk and another goat's milk, which may have contributed. I have bottle fed two other goats before (one was rejected and the other was given to us with scours), who are both one year and a few months now. I started both off with 4 oz but I'm not sure how much they weighed. I really hope this boy survives.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would trust your gut..you are with him..see him..touch him, so trust that. Hes had a tough start with mama dieing. Stress can do alot to those tiny tots.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you think he was feeding and pooping normally and got plenty of colostrum before his dam died?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good questions and suggestions.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

Same with SalteyLove hope you fed it colostrum it is very very important. You should consult your vet he might be able to shed some more light on the situation. Was his mom CL, CAE and CDT free.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

happybleats said:


> How does his tummy feel after his bottle? 16 oz at this age and weight..i don't agree at all. He was constipated most likely due to over feeding to begin with. I wouldnt begin to up his milk too much just yet. Keep with the enemas until he's pooping well by himself. Sometimes they get really backed up and need time. Always feel his tummy after a bottle..flat but firm..not too poochy.


Yeah, I'm definitely NOT the bottle baby expert. I've only had a few bottle kids and the youngest were a week old when I got them and over 10 lbs. each. Those little monsters were drinking almost 20 oz. per feeding when I got them. Still, 3 oz. sounds like way too little per feeding for a 6 lb. goat, and I do know that constipation and/or no poop is more often a sign of too little milk than too much. Acting constantly hungry is both good and bad. It's good that he has a healthy appetite, but it's bad if he's hungry all the time. To me that screams, "Feed me more, mom!"


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

I am on the same page as SalteyLove. Did you give it colostrum in the early stage of its life. Is the kid's mother CDT, CL and CAE free. A necropsy could shine more light in the case of any hidden diseases in the doe. Also have you contacted your vet he could be a HUGE blessing in this case.

Hope this helps and the kid feels better soon


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

Though I am no bottle baby expert. You can ask the experts of the forum.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Damfino said:


> Acting constantly hungry is both good and bad. It's good that he has a healthy appetite, but it's bad if he's hungry all the time. To me that screams, "Feed me more, mom!"


From my experience That little tummy tells the story along with pooping and activity. She started with 4 oz 4 times a day and baby got constipated so that tells me he can not digest that much milk yet. So we decrease to 10% until he is pooping well. Once pooping on his own..milk should be increased alittle at a time as he can handle it and as he gains weight. Overfeeding kills more kids than underfeeding. While 10 % sounds lean and is the least baby should be fed, its better on his system until he can poop. 
I do understand what you are saying..babieas scream hunger even when stuffed. But most will go on their happy way to play once they realize there is no more to have lol. Those who don't does need to be looked at different to see why. Are they still hungry or does his tummy hurt cause he can't poop. Its a judgment call. Per kid. But either way should be addressed carefully.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

CAE and CL should not have an effect at this young an age with these issues. CDT is a vaccination and the kid is too young to be given it. I would ask if mom had her CDT up to date and is his naval was taken care of at birth along with plenty of colostrum.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I would trust your gut..you are with him..see him..touch him, so trust that. Hes had a tough start with mama dieing. Stress can do alot to those tiny tots.


Thank you. He doesn't have any of the symptoms from a few days ago. We're going to take him to the vet in case it's something else.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Do you think he was feeding and pooping normally and got plenty of colostrum before his dam died?


Yes, I really think he did. I was not there when the mom died, but my parents tell me that he was drinking right before, while she was laying down. The moms milk had also thinned out slightly from that initial thick colostrum. However, I'm not sure about the pooping. He pooped nice, soft and orange the first day. But those turned into hard cracked brown soon aftef


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Goataddict said:


> Same with SalteyLove hope you fed it colostrum it is very very important. You should consult your vet he might be able to shed some more light on the situation. Was his mom CL, CAE and CDT free.


Yes, we are going to schedule an appointment.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Two enemas, no poop but a small dribble of brown. Have been massaging his left side and he has been running and exploring. Now I’m questioning if he has scours the same color as the hay? Surely I’d be able to see it
Weight is 5.75- 6lb now
Making the appointment now for tomorrow, since it is closed now


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

I really can’t feel anything in his stomach, but I’m probably doing it wrong


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Here’s an image of what he looks like today, where you can see his sides


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think a vet visit is a good idea, hands on to give a good check up. The brown dribble you see maybe wash off from poop inside? Be sure to fill him up until a little enema squirts back out..always warm and always gentle. One time I had a baby so backed up I used a save a baby tubing kit, like picture posted, to insert in babies bum and slowly pushes enema fluid through that..did not distress baby at all and really helped get poop out. The vet should be able to tell you if he is impacted or not. Please keep us posted.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I think a vet visit is a good idea, hands on to give a good check up. The brown dribble you see maybe wash off from poop inside? Be sure to fill him up until a little enema squirts back out..always warm and always gentle. One time I had a baby so backed up I used a save a baby tubing kit, like picture posted, to insert in babies bum and slowly pushes enema fluid through that..did not distress baby at all and really helped get poop out. The vet should be able to tell you if he is impacted or not. Please keep us posted.
> 
> View attachment 184257


Should I wait until the vet or keep giving him enemas. He screams bloody murder sometimes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would keep trying the enemas until vet visit. Babies do not like it but it does not hurt them. They scream more about being restrained. Make sure enema is nice and warm helps..not cold or too hot.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

happybleats said:


> From my experience That little tummy tells the story along with pooping and activity. She started with 4 oz 4 times a day and baby got constipated so that tells me he can not digest that much milk yet. So we decrease to 10% until he is pooping well. Once pooping on his own..milk should be increased a little at a time as he can handle it and as he gains weight. Overfeeding kills more kids than underfeeding. While 10 % sounds lean and is the least baby should be fed, its better on his system until he can poop.
> I do understand what you are saying..babies scream hunger even when stuffed. But most will go on their happy way to play once they realize there is no more to have lol. Those who don't does need to be looked at different to see why. Are they still hungry or does his tummy hurt cause he can't poop. Its a judgment call. Per kid. But either way should be addressed carefully.


Huh... interesting. It would never occur to me that eating only 16 oz./day could be too much for a 6 lb. kid. I mean, that's only one pint of milk in 24 hours for a five-day-old and at that rate he may never start pooping because he's not getting enough to work with. My thought is that baby got constipated because he wasn't getting enough fluid through his system. Once again, my kids are dam-raised so I don't measure out their milk intake, but I know even the tiny brand new ones drink more than 1 pint/day. A few of my heavier producers overfeed during the first few days and the kids get scours, not constipation. It seems like it would take a lot more than 4 oz. to stop this little guy's digestion unless there is something else going wrong. I'm not meaning to be argumentative here, but the fact that he's now losing weight and is consuming less than half what a goat his age should normally eat concerns me. I'm glad he's seeing a vet in the morning.

Just thinking this through... if he did get constipation from being dehydrated, the problem now is that the new milk going in may not be able to get past the obstruction. In that case, yes, increasing his milk intake could very well be deadly since the milk would end up sitting in the belly and turning sour.

On the other hand, is there a reason to think he's still constipated? A baby goat that isn't getting enough milk isn't going to make much or any poop. I noticed a lack of poop with my kid that broke her pelvis last month. She didn't poop for about 48 hours after the accident because her appetite went down and she wasn't mobil. Once she did poop, it was hardly anything. It took a few days for her digestion to really kick back into gear, but she never got constipated. Not enough food + not enough activity = little or no poop.

Once again, I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative. I've never had a kid get blocked or require an enema so I may be completely out of my depth here. It just *sounds* to me like this kid is undernourished rather than overnourished and he needs more fluid going in the front end, not the back. He looks sunken in in the photos and if he's actively looking for more food, I'd be inclined to give it to him (within reason of course). I'm really glad a vet is going to see him tomorrow. It's so hard to diagnose and treat things over the internet! Hopefully he hasn't got an obstruction and his milk can be increased without worry.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I would keep trying the enemas until vet visit. Babies do not like it but it does not hurt them. They scream more about being restrained. Make sure enema is nice and warm helps..not cold or too hot.


I wasn't able to do any more enemas, and I'm really hoping he just makes it through the night. He seems and screams perfectly healthy, it's just that goats can drop very quickly in my opinion. I'm a bit scared, but at least the vet appointment is early.
The last times I did enemas, I pushed in until a bit came out and waited. Helped him run around and massaged the area as well...


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Damfino said:


> Huh... interesting. It would never occur to me that eating only 16 oz./day could be too much for a 6 lb. kid. I mean, that's only one pint of milk in 24 hours for a five-day-old and at that rate he may never start pooping because he's not getting enough to work with. My thought is that baby got constipated because he wasn't getting enough fluid through his system. Once again, my kids are dam-raised so I don't measure out their milk intake, but I know even the tiny brand new ones drink more than 1 pint/day. A few of my heavier producers overfeed during the first few days and the kids get scours, not constipation. It seems like it would take a lot more than 4 oz. to stop this little guy's digestion unless there is something else going wrong. I'm not meaning to be argumentative here, but the fact that he's now losing weight and is consuming less than half what a goat his age should normally eat concerns me. I'm glad he's seeing a vet in the morning.
> 
> Just thinking this through... if he did get constipation from being dehydrated, the problem now is that the new milk going in may not be able to get past the obstruction. In that case, yes, increasing his milk intake could very well be deadly since the milk would end up sitting in the belly and turning sour.
> 
> ...


Honestly the biggest reason I think he's constipated is because I haven't seen a poop since the first enema, and I have been watching him like a hawk. I can no longer feel anything hard in the area close to his intestines, and I believe he is digesting milk because he's so ravenous. He wasn't taking the bottle before the first enema, but he's more than willing now. I'm confused as to what is happening: Despite this, I know a few days worth of not pooping and drinking could be deadly as you said. Hoping he makes it though the night
And I agree. It seems like goats get way more milk with their mothers. I notice that our goats push away their kids from taking in too much. It seems like more frequent feedings in smaller quantities. I did not feed 16oz to my other kids until several weeks later. Personally, I don't think I've been over feeding him because there have been no scours, but this judgement may be wrong. I love the discussions happening here!


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

Hoping he pulls through and the vet can help you


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Damfino said:


> 16 oz./day could be too much for a 6 lb. kid. I mean, that's only one pint of milk in 24 hours


I owe you an apology!! I miss read your earlier post as 16 oz a bottle!! I guess I need to slow down and read better.
I agree dehydration or not getting enough food can cause poop issues too.but she was feeding 4 oz and still no poop. Even at 15 oz a day would be 3.6 oz a bottle. The weight loss concerns me as well.. Hopefully the vet gets hands on him can get ger some answers.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tasnigoat2 said:


> I love the discussions happening here!


I do too. I appreciate being able to talk things through..bounce ideas and even if we are not on the same page, the information we all share can help come to a conclusion or at best lead us to dig deeper to help find an answer. And Damfino gave lots to consider as well.

Keep us posted as to what the vet says.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I owe you an apology!! I miss read your earlier post as 16 oz a bottle!! I guess I need to slow down and read better.


In my first post I actually did say, "kids that age are usually finishing a 16 oz. bottle at each meal, and I feed them 3 meals/day."

When I have a bottle baby (not often), I usually feed them from a 16 oz. pop bottle. At a week old, they're easily drinking 3 bottles/day. For this little guy, I'd expect him to be drinking at least two full bottles/day (spread out through several feedings of course). Doing the math here, my mama goats usually give about 1 gallon/day and they usually raise two kids on that. This means each dam-raised kid drinks about 2 qts. of milk a day on average. I raise full-sized goats and usually the kids are born 7-10 lbs. so they're bigger than this little guy, and of course they don't start out eating 2 qts/day during the first week. However, they certainly eat more than 4 oz. per feeding. I've had to start a few newborns on a bottle if mama's milk didn't come in right away. A newborn will usually suck down 4-6 oz. at the first drink, and their intake rapidly increases after the first few hours if they're healthy.



> I agree dehydration or not getting enough food can cause poop issues too.but she was feeding 4 oz and still no poop. .


If she's only feeding 4 oz I would not expect any poop. There's not enough fluid going into him for anything to come out, and if anything does come down the line it's going to be too hard and dry for him to pass easily. If he's hungry and active then he's probably not plugged any more and I think it would be safe to increase his intake. If there's any concern about constipation, increasing the frequency of feedings would be better than increasing the amount per feeding.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have raised 100s of bottle kids over the years and for the majority of them..they always pooped just fine.The thing is no two babies are the same, not even siblings. You can have twin sister both 6 pounds each and one do fantastic on 20% body weight in milk and the other get scours or constipated..sick with undigested milk. 
So instead of feeding a set amount for all based on age..we feed based on weight and how the tummy feels. As well as taking cues from baby based on poop..appetite and activity. A lethargic baby with little or no poop or scours is a baby not digesting all her milk. Its not cut and dry. I have been working with new goat owners along time and one thing I won't assume is them recondizing symptoms a baby getting too much milk. So we start with 10% and feel the tummy and work up from there. We can always add a bottle of electrolytes between milk bottles if baby needs more fluid. Usually with in the first few weeks baby is doing great and on more milk, digesting just fine. Some babies just need more time to develop. This can be true with dam raised kids as well. I had twin boys I had to pull from mom and take out to monitor feeding. Mom had rich rich milk and boys drank then stayed lethargic and poopy. Within a week or so they were back with mom full time. Just needed things to slow down a bit.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Damfino said:


> increasing the frequency of feedings would be better than increasing the amount per feeding.


Yes some times feeding smaller more frequent meals works best.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

The vet wasn’t able to make room for him today. When I called yesterday it went to voicemail in the “large animals” office so our app is tomorrow at 12:15. Babe is still active, hungry, screaming, and alert. He is so gentle. I’m going to keep watching him, and go through his bedding today to actually see if there have or have not been poops. I’m really hoping it’s the former. Again, no signs that he had initially, like sitting down, getting up, feeling tired and not wanting to drink. His stomach also flattens out each time and I don’t feel anything hard...but I don’t SEE anything either. I’m going to do my best to help him make it to tomorrow. I don’t want him to crash.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Rooting for baby. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

So over all he's acting like a normal healthy active baby just not seeing poop?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I think a vet visit is a good idea, hands on to give a good check up. The brown dribble you see maybe wash off from poop inside? Be sure to fill him up until a little enema squirts back out..always warm and always gentle. One time I had a baby so backed up I used a save a baby tubing kit, like picture posted, to insert in babies bum and slowly pushes enema fluid through that..did not distress baby at all and really helped get poop out. The vet should be able to tell you if he is impacted or not. Please keep us posted.
> 
> View attachment 184257


Hello! So I'm going to do more enemas. He's so stuffed up! So do I put in enough enema until more comes out? Even if it's more than 10cc/ml? And how long should I wait for poop to give more?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> So over all he's acting like a normal healthy active baby just not seeing poop?


Yes he's acting normal. Mom noticed that he wasn't taking more than 2oz in the morning. Just went to actually check up and everything. He's rounder now, which concerns me. His intestine area is more stuffed up.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Administered first enema, poop came out!! Not enough for two days so I’m going to repeat in about 5 minutes. The color is tan brown, and a bit softened but holding shape. I have noticed that he searches for water, and drank all of the water in the pots outside. It is a hot day, but is he maybe dehydrated? He is constantly searching for milk.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yahoo for poop..keep at it! You can give an oz or so of electrolytes 2 hours between milk to help increase fluid intake. Just don't want too much that he doesn't feel the need for milk. So maybe mid day for now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tasnigoat2 said:


> So do I put in enough enema until more comes out? Even if it's more than 10cc/ml? A


Yes..i fill baby up gently until a little squirts back out. It help get that Push button going.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Yes..i fill baby up gently until a little squirts back out. It help get that Push button going.


I did the second enema and it only came back out. No poop afterwards either but he's no longer poofy. I strongly think he will make it through till the vet appointment.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hes in really good hands so i have no doubt. 

What type of enema are you using? I get good results with oil and water.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Hes in really good hands so i have no doubt.
> 
> What type of enema are you using? I get good results with oil and water.


Mineral oil and water. I have also started to mix about a tsp of the oil into his milk.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

I’m heartbroken. The vet had another emergency appointment to go to today. Appointment has moved to Monday. I’m scared for my little guy. Whenever he Is sitting down, he kind of yelps, if that makes sense. They are short cries, kind of like “mat”. It may be him calling me, but usually that’s different. He’s getting an average of 12-15 oz a day. Still not pooping right


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh wow, no other vet available?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Oh wow, no other vet available?


Called almost every other around me, either they don't take large animals or they close at 12.
The vet we were scheduled with had to euthanize an animal, last time we called he had to sedate a horse


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How frustrating. Have you tried giving Milk of Magnesia? This will help if there is toxins and hekp him poop. 1/4 cc per pound is dose. He sounds like he's not comfortable. How does his tummy feel? Is he still eating with gusto?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> How frustrating. Have you tried giving Milk of Magnesia? This will help if there is toxins and hekp him poop. 1/4 cc per pound is dose. He sounds like he's not comfortable. How does his tummy feel? Is he still eating with gusto?


I don't have it on hand, only have pepto Bismal
He does eat with gusto!! Constantly searching for food and urinates regularly


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..pepto is not the same thing. I would keep with enemas for now until he poops real good.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Ok..pepto is not the same thing. I would keep with enemas for now until he poops real good.


All of the enemas from the previous day have gone out I'm assuming, since his legs and private are soaked with mineral oil/water. Should I keep going? He's not showing previous signs of distress and is super good at taking the bottle, and has not refused since. I can't feel anything and I have a feeling he is digesting the milk because he flattens our...but there are still no signs of poop.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

I read an article that said that constipation is very rare in goats, and that it’s more likely a digestion issue that results from undernourishment or something similar. I don’t want him to be dehydrating and just not receiving enough milk. Wish the appointment was today


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..i thought you said he was acting in pain when he laid down. If he is doing good then I wouldn't do enemas. Might be time.to increase his milk a little at a time..watching tummy for fullness.

Constipation is actually more common then that article states. Not rare at all. I think I actually read the one you are talking about. I have seen so many cases helping others I can't even count them. But yes there can be other causes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The no poop thing is puzzling. I wonder if its being missed..or perhaps cleaned up by a dog? If no poop by now baby would be sick acting.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Another thought on his tiny yelps..he maybe lonely. Is there another his size he can play with?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Ok..i thought you said he was acting in pain when he laid down. If he is doing good then I wouldn't do enemas. Might be time.to increase his milk a little at a time..watching tummy for fullness.
> 
> Constipation is actually more common then that article states. Not rare at all. I think I actually read the one you are talking about. I have seen so many cases helping others I can't even count them. But yes there can be other causes.


This may be a dumb question but when you say "tummy", do I check the width of his body looking down or his underbelly area?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> The no poop thing is puzzling. I wonder if its being missed..or perhaps cleaned up by a dog? If no poop by now baby would be sick acting.


We don't have a dog, and he has been crying loud and clear whenever I leave his proximity. I wonder the same thing...am I missing it? But there's nothing but pee in his hay/straw


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Another thought on his tiny yelps..he maybe lonely. Is there another his size he can play with?


I would say he most likely is, especially at night. I feel like he has some separation issues due to watching his mom die right in front of him. I've been actively looking for more babies. Just found a few, and am going to try to get a friend for him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Checking his tummy means to run your hands down The sides of his body from neck to hips..you want him to feel firm but fairly flat. A small pooch is ok but you don't want a sunken in. If he feels sunken in..slowly increase milk amount.

I just brought home a nigie baby who is 2 weeks old. Her poop berries are so tiny..i didn't see it in her pen but when I took her out side to walk around I was able to see her poop.

A friend wpuld make him so happy. In the mean time maybe a stuff animal? Rub it all over him to get a goat smell going.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Checking his tummy means to run your hands down The sides of his body from neck to hips..you want him to feel firm but fairly flat. A small pooch is ok but you don't want a sunken in. If he feels sunken in..slowly increase milk amount.
> 
> I just brought home a nigie baby who is 2 weeks old. Her poop berries are so tiny..i didn't see it in her pen but when I took her out side to walk around I was able to see her poop.
> 
> A friend wpuld make him so happy. In the mean time maybe a stuff animal? Rub it all over him to get a goat smell going.


I think he may be sunken in. I increased milk to around 3.5-4 oz during the latter half of today and am going to reweigh him. It's always scary to have a sick goat, especially one that hasn't pooped in 5 days. I'm always afraid that I won't have him when I wake up. All the babies I can find are about 3 weeks+. Still looking
And no berries, also didn't do any enemas today


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

This is a chart from fiasco farms. The baby, which I have named “kabeel/kabilo” is an alpine/Nubian mix. He descends from some dairy line. I’m wondering if the amount of milk has to play a role? I have never heard of 6oz on the first day x 4...


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Going to stay up tonight, as he only got 4 bottles today and I want to increase his milk to 4.5 oz. He is certainly digesting, unless I’m feeling his stomach wrong. I was going to do more enemas, but I’m honestly unsure. I still think I’m going to. I’m also going to upload some more pictures of his stance, his mineral oil soaked behind, and also his bedding. I feel like he may be trying to push out some poop, as he has moments where he just pauses, head and neck down and tail almost quivering. (another pic) Not not sure though.
Kabilo is also always hungry. He is either eating my clothes, searching for milk on my fingers, toes, face, back, really anything. Constantly on the search for more food, which really makes me think he’s hungry. He’s never full when I finish feeding him, and he cries and cries. I’m going to check his stomach more throughly now that I know how to. 
Otherwise, he is active, alert, and curious. Perfect on the bottle too


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes, he needs a larger portion based on those photos. He probably isn't getting enough to produce stool. I marked up the photo but it's hard to do on the small screen. This is the area you want filled up after a bottle. Not quite as round out as my marks portray but I think you will get the idea. 

It's tough being worried about overfeeding and also bottle kids that act starving all the time but in this case, I think you need to bottle more!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes having a goat that is not well is stressful. Good news is he acting well. 
He does look a bit sinken in. 
When increasing milk...go slow. 1/2 oz at a time..baby goats always act starved so don't let him guilt you into over feeding. Re weigh him every couple of days, they grow fast. 

Fiasco farms has been out of goat business for a long time. And imo her chart is wrong. You need to feed based on weight not age. Can you imagine feeding a 3 pound baby and a 6 pound baby the same amount?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I know y'all are saying baby goats always act starved, but mine have never acted starved unless they were not getting enough milk. I usually feed kids until they get the glaze-eyed "food coma" look and let go of the nipple themselves. I don't recommend "feeding till full" for this particular kid because he's got some issues and his intake needs to be ramped up carefully. However, I really feel like this baby is literally starving, not just acting the part. He's crying because he's constantly hungry. He won't poop until he has enough milk coming down the line to make it happen. Right now every ounce of that milk is going straight toward keeping his system running and trying to grow. There's not enough left over to make solid waste. He needs more milk.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Thank you everyone for your input! Going to slowly increase milk. Going on 4-5 oz today. I have noticed that the little guy has been coughing today, which is unusual. He also fell asleep in front of me yesterday and was still yelling. No poops yet


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Update! Increasing milk helped!!! I see poop!! :bighug:
They look more like scours than anything so 4.5oz is probably too much, but still!!


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

There is no poop on his bedding, it is just in his butt


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

Aspiration on bottle and pneumonia could be his issues? I recommend a vet visit.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If he's super hungry he may be inhaling some milk when he drinks. Keep an eye out for snotty nose. 

I don't think he's scouring from too much milk. Rather, it's quite possible he still has some cloggage going on and the only thing that can work its way past is liquid. But he really does need the liquid to help move things along. It just can't be too much at once. Frequent small feedings will be the way to go, and I'd try another enema if it seems like only liquid is coming through, especially if he seems like he's straining. Does he seem perky otherwise?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yahoo for poop. Be sure to go slow with increases. Watch his tummy. Good job.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Vet appointment was today! They did an enema with longer saline tubing, some soap, and water. Only a small chunk like we had seen before came out. They also found he had a slight fever but he’s overall ok, and an otherwise healthy and active goat.
They informed us to feed him 5oz x4 or 4oz x5, and I might go with the former. Glad to know he’s ok
The coughing has gone away completely


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

I am still searching for his friend


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Hey everyone! Kabilo is growing, but still no poops. We are at 5.5 oz every 4 hours. He’s still ravenous. I’m also going to weigh him and see how much that is.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How much does he weigh?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> How much does he weigh?


I'm going to weigh him in a bit. Just fed him for his third time today and his stomach is tight and super full. I didn't get to feed him all of it because I was afraid he was getting too big. Might have to do some more enemas tonight...
He also still has hard tiny poops, as he had tried this afternoon and managed to poop out a bit of stool. Better than nothing!!! But not all of it


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would do the enema and be cautious about feeding too much. Tummy should not be too poochy.
At this point I feel like there maybe intestinal issues. Goats poop..all the time, even on a leaner diet. My now 6 pound nigie drinks 3 oz 4 times a day. A bit more than 10%. She poops a mountain of tiny berries with ease. Your baby not pooping much is call for concern. 
How does he act? Is he active? Lethargic?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

happybleats said:


> I would do the enema and be cautious about feeding too much. Tummy should not be too poochy.
> At this point I feel like there maybe intestinal issues. Goats poop..all the time, even on a leaner diet. My now 6 pound nigie drinks 3 oz 4 times a day. A bit more than 10%. She poops a mountain of tiny berries with ease. Your baby not pooping much is call for concern.
> How does he act? Is he active? Lethargic?


Didn't do the enema because as I suspected, it was too much milk. He started scouring so I'm starting to give him some water between feedings, and lowering the milk. The vet said that more stool would show up with more food. He is extremely energetic and active.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I wouldnt give water in bottle..this can cause red urine and can be dangerous
Feed electrolytes in place of milk a few bottles then try milk again. Let's his tummy rest. Im glad he's still active and alert


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

You definitely want to be tracking weight daily to make sure he is gaining. Is he looking any less boney?


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> You definitely want to be tracking weight daily to make sure he is gaining. Is he looking any less boney?


Hi! Sorry it's been so long. He's growing, horns have come in, and poops pellets!! Haven't been able to weigh him because he won't sit still for it and I need another person to help me, but he certainly hasn't lost any weight. He is no longer sunken in and takes around 6.5 oz of milk 4 times a day. He drinks water regularly and dabbles in a bit of grain. Has started to chew on leaves. Likes to be rocked in my arms occasionally and sits on our swing outside and rocks himself to sleep:inlove:
He's such a cute baby. The vet visit really helped me to feel better about the whole situation, and I haven't had to give him any more enemas. Now to hoping that the rest of the road is healthy and happy!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Please send us some pictures. So happy to hear is going strong.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

That's great news


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good news!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Tanya said:


> Please send us some pictures. So happy to hear is going strong.





SalteyLove said:


> That's great news





happybleats said:


> Good news!!!





toth boer goats said:


> Good to hear.


Thank you everyone for your help and affirmations!
He's a month old, taking 8 oz, and has eaten all the leaves off our plants :crazy:
I will definitely take some better pictures tomorrow, but here's him in my sisters lap two weeks ago


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww, cute.


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## Boers4ever (Jun 28, 2020)

Cutie pie


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

Some more pictures for you all.
He likes to ravage the chicken feed.
Also his hair texture is a bit wavy, and it looks like his bones but it’s just his hair.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very cute! Don't let him eat chicken feed. He can get acidosis or enterotoxemia.


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## Tasnigoat2 (Apr 29, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Very cute! Don't let him eat chicken feed. He can get acidosis or enterotoxemia.


Oh yes, our chickens and goats both get the same mill feed but I pulled him off right after the picture.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww.


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