# Raspberry leaves - to use or not to use pre-delivery?



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I've read it's beneficial to give the doe some raspberry leaves a week or so before they deliver. Is this a good idea?

This is our first kidding season and we have two possibly three preggos. We bought them already bred, but only have estimated delivery dates (within a1month span) the breeder had to sell her herd and we'd gotten our bottle babies from her so I had no worries. 
The earliest due date is Jan 9 for 2 does and about 2-3 weeks later for the third.

I figured I'd give CDT's right after Christmas, trim hooves and trim tail hair about then too. They're still a bit untrusting so I want to avoid over stressing them but I also want to make sure moms and babies have the best care I can give them. Maybe I should copper them too though they had it in April.

My vet is hesitant about giving me a RX for BoSe or anything else so I've been giving them selenium gel every month religiously and they're on wind rain and storm minerals free choice.

Their diet it free choice Sudan hay 24/7 , alfalfa pellets pretty much free choice though some days I don't refill the feeders the second they empty much to their dismay  and for grain they get a 6oz size yogurt cup scoop morning and night of purina all stages goat chow.

Is there anything else I should do? 
BTW they're nigerian Dwarfs all have freshened at least twice.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd go ahead and give CDT now. The raspberry leaves are fine to give too.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> I'd go ahead and give CDT now. The raspberry leaves are fine to give too.


Thanks for responding.
I know they are current with their CDT's as I helped the breeder give them also in April. Is 6-8 weeks before delivery best? I always thought it was a month? 
I'm trying to learn not question your experience so forgive me if that sounded badly put.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Since you don't know the actual due date, I'd give a month prior to the earliest due date. The other option is to just keep giving it every April.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Thank you


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

SUGGESTIONS PLEASE,
Are there any other things I should be looking for or doing? 
I've read every thread and book I can get my hands on, I've spent hours watching you tube videos but still feel VERY nervous. 
As a paramedic I've delivered many human kids ...but this will be my first caprine kid experience.... I just want things to go as well as possible.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm one who likes to give the CDT approximately 1 month before delivery, and were these mine, I'd give it to everyone around December 15.

Making them move and (safely) stretch will help position babies. Does their pasture have any trees? Something they can rear up on while trying to reach leaves?

Watch out for mold in ANYTHING. They are particularly susceptible right now.

Good job on the minerals and particularly the selenium. I personally have come to prefer the Replamin Gel Plus, to the selenium gel, but I depended on the selenium gel for years. My vets also were less than willing to hand out Bo-Se.

During the Winter, which is when my girls tend to be pregnant, I really like to offer a protein tub. But I don't come close to offering free choice Alfalfa, and your weather patterns are probably not as stressful to your girls as my weather has become.

This is the one I have mostly used
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/prairie-pride-goat-protein-pail-18-lb?rfk=1
This is the one @Jessica84 uses
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-16-protein-tub-200-lb?rfk=1
and also this one.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-general-purpose-protein-tub-125-lb?cm_vc=-10005
Here is another safe option
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/equine-choice-turnout-333-lb?cm_vc=-10005
@HoosierShadow uses one from Crystallyx (sp?) but I don't know which one.

If you decide to use a protein tub, then be certain you read the ingredients. Urea is NOT a good source of protein for a goat. Feather meal is pretty common, and while I'm not happy about it, it does no actual harm that I know of.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Thanks @mariarose!
Yes, I have a TSC protein tub thanks.
Yes, my goats have trees, wire spools and varying height benches/tables to climb and stretch on. The preggos are in with the yearlings and wethers so they're always running around and playing.
They all sleep in a barn/shed every evening because of coyotes and are let out each morning. We change the bedding daily and have decent ventilation. 
I'll look into the replemin asap but I just bought 3 tubes of the gel so I'll use it first. My vet suggested I do a once a month drench of redcell at 1cc per 10lbs but truthfully I only do it every couple of months because he raises meat market boers and I have Dwarfs with the exception of a boer wether and a ND/boer cross wether and they are doing great on this schedule.
I bought the pneumonia vaccine (in pmh was on indefinite back order) and was thinking of giving it with the CDT's do you think it's a good idea?
Thanks for your suggestions...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd give that immediately (the pneumonia vaccine)

It sounds like you have the moving/stretching thing down pat.

I personally would not routinely use Red Cell. I'd keep that as a medicine/treatment. Too much iron is a "thing". Also, I've read that some goat owners have run into trouble with selenium toxicity with routine use. 

On my farm, too much iron would be the problem, not too much selenium. But other farms have other issues.

I'm not anti-Red Cell. I just have always considered it something to be used to correct an anemia problem and then to be stopped.

Did your vet say why to routinely give Red Cell? Or could any Boer Breeders chime in here?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, one last thing about the Red Cell. There is a Red Cell for canines. It has beef liver in it. Ruminants should not be eating other ruminants (Mad Cow, Scrapies...) so check the ingredients of your Red Cell to be certain it doesn't contain ruminant "stuff". If it does, please don't finish the bottle before getting a new one. Just... don't...


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

It's the red cell for cattle/horses so it's ok. He gave it to me. We are on a well with very lime-y water and he said it would negate any problems from that.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

I don’t know your area well, but in most places in the USA, constantly pouring high concentrations of iron into a goat is a bad idea. Overdosing iron is easy and really bad. Red cell is great! IF you use it right. Treat extreme anemia with it (eyelids are white). Stop when their eyelid color is borderline good again, do not continue to treat beyond borderline. Maybe he has a problem with worms and has consistent anemia? Maybe it’s a show Boer thing? I don’t know. Most likely you don’t need it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

GoofyGoat said:


> It's the red cell for cattle/horses so it's ok.


OK, Totally Awesome!


GoofyGoat said:


> We are on a well with very lime-y water and he said it would negate any problems from that.


UHHMM???????????????????
I'm ignorant of this interaction. More experience breeders, can you educate me?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

It seemed a bit much with the feed and minerals I'm using that's why I only did it every couple months. However, being somewhat new to goat ownership and their needs it is a case of he's a vet with goats so he must be smarter than me.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm not criticizing you in the slightest. If there is a good reason for it, I want to know! Hence my call for education from the experts here.

But I also know that people who have goats don't always know goat nutrition. I know that vets don't always know goat nutrition. So I am comfortable with the possibility that vets with goats don't always know goat nutrition.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@goathiker, @ksalvagno @intrepid-dreamer @HoosierShadow @Jessica84 @toth boer goats 
I'd very much value your input on using Red Cell routinely to counteract lime-y well water. You know nutrition and/or raise Boers...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I have a problem with iron in water so can't help.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I'm not criticizing you in the slightest. If there is a good reason for it, I want to know! Hence my call for education from the experts here.
> 
> But I also know that people who have goats don't always know goat nutrition. I know that vets don't always know goat nutrition. So I am comfortable with the possibility that vets with goats don't always know goat nutrition.


Oh, I wasn't taking it as criticism at all, no worries. I'm still a newbie when it comes to goats. Since they don't come with directions I just do the best I can ...like any of us 

I just figured he knew the area being raised here and he has a very productive boer goat business. So I figured he'd know more than me.


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

High levels of calcium immobilize iron and make it unavailable. 
Calcium is what makes water limey...


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

@GoofyGoat, I didn't see your post about limey water when I wrote my last. Dumb phone didn't update apparently.

Ooooooo! I can second that! I knew a girl who got anemic, and her doctor put her on iron pills and told her to stay away from milk or calcium fortified drinks for a month so her body could absorb more iron faster.


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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

I had a bunch of issues with my goats when I moved to my new house - death, miscarriage, goat polio etc... and since I switched to rainwater or filtered water (instead of my well water high in calcium and iron) my goats are doing Much better! Just fyi

As for kidding- I am sure you will do great! It is so exciting and fun, but the nerves come with it I'm afraid! Just watch your girls closely to make sure they appear to be in good health and make sure the kids are on their feet and nursing before you leave them alone to do their goat thing


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