# Hi from East TN



## sistachic

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum. I am a wife, mother, grandmother and lover of animals. At the moment I have a boxer and a min pin and 5 chickens... so now I am here in search of the right goat for my family. 

The best way to describe what I want is to simply put it out there and let you people that are familiar with goats help me out please. 

I want a milk goat. After I find out what would be best for us I want to try to find one that has already had a kid and is giving milk or is preggers with one. 

The things I want in a goat is:

A good milker
A gentle soul
Not large (small to medium)
A breed that the nannies don't get horns. 
One of the quieter breeds (if there is such a thing) LOL

Thanks for any help as I dig into the forums and try to find some info on my endeavor!


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## liz

Welcome to TGS!! :wave:

A small to medium sized doe would be either a Nigerian Dwarf or a "Mini" Nubian, Saanen, Alpine , Toggenberg or La Mancha...mini meaning that they have a Nigerian dwarf as a sire.
To find a doe in milk, already trained to a stand may be hard as most don't want to part with their girls (I'm one ) However it may take some searching breeders in your area to find what you are looking for and ...you shouldn't get just one goat, they are herd animals and should have a companion of their own kind.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a specific breed where does don't have horns, naturally polled goats will pass on genetics to offspring but that is with any breed.
As far as gentle... temperment can be something bred into them, just like with dogs but how they are with you is totally dependent on how they are handled.


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## toth boer goats

Welcome, :wave: glad you are here.


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## milkmaid

Welcome from North Alabama!
What Liz said.  I just want to expand on the hornless idea.
You can have any horned kid disbudded (horn buds burned so they won't grow) at an early age, which is what most people do. It's a quick, simple, painful experience. I hate it.
There are polled (naturally hornless) goats in most popular breeds, if not all. I LOVE polled goats!
There is one little hitch with polled. There can be an issue with permanent infertility (hermaphrodism [sp?]) if both parents are naturally polled.
If one parent is horned or disbudded, there's no problem. So either make sure you are buying a goat that is definitely pregnant or has kidded before, OR, if you do decide to buy a kid, make sure that at least one parent is horned or disbudded.
Last I knew, Fields of Grace in Knoxville, TN had a couple of polled does, at least one of which has an udder to make you drool (Pecan Hollow Coco Chanell). They are a very nice farm. I'm PMing you.


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## ksalvagno

Welcome to TGS! :wave:


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Welcome to the goat spot!! I'm in TN as well. Calhoun (midway between Knoxville & Chattanooga) TN. I have a polled buck bred to most of my does for January February & March kids. I *should* have several polled doelings available for sale then and *maybe* a disbudded doe in milk. You can see our herd at www.WhisperingWillowNDG.com or on facebook at Whispering Willow Nigerian Dwarf Goats. We are also very willing to have you, your husband, kids, and grandkids over for a farm visit to meet our goats and see if you fall in love with Nigerians ;-) we have 6 children so bringing the grandkids is a serious offer lol.


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## ThreeHavens

A good milker: There are many good milking breeds, this mainly depends on what breeder you get it from. If you buy from a good breeder, you will probably get good milkers.

A gentle soul: That mainly depends on individual personality. Ask the breeder which of their does are the sweetest and they should tell you straight up. 

Not large (small to medium): Nigerian Dwarf! They are a milk breed and I love them. I breed them myself.

A breed that the nannies don't get horns: Both males and females of all goat breeds naturally get horns. They have to be polled or disbudded not to get them. You can ask your breeder if they would be willing to do this service.

One of the quieter breeds (if there is such a thing) LOL: :laugh: I wish! The first few days at their new home is always noisy, but they will settle down. Again, ask the breeder about which does are quieter. It's a personality trait.


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## sistachic

How exciting to hear from you all and thank you for the welcomes!

milkmaid, I wanted to respond but couldn't, said I had to have a 25 posts in order to send a pm, but thank you!  

WhisperingWillowDNG, I am close to you  we just moved to Niota from Athens a little over a year ago I would love to come see your goats and ask questions sometime when you have the time. 

Woodhavenfarm, thank you for taking the time to break that down for me and explaining. 

You all have been very helpful!


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowDNG, your goats are adorable, I love the buckskins!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> WhisperingWillowDNG, your goats are adorable, I love the buckskins!


I'm very partial to buckskins lol. Lucky for me I found a few with excellent bloodlines ;-(


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> I'm very partial to buckskins lol. Lucky for me I found a few with excellent bloodlines ;-(


That was supposed the be ;-D


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG, the "maybe" disbudded doe in milk, is that one that has a kid at the moment and you may sell her and the kid? Or that you are keeping the kid and possibly selling her when the kid weens or that is preggers? What color is this "maybe" disbudded doe in milk? And if you "might" know a price you are considering, would you pm me and let me know.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> WhisperingWillowNDG, the "maybe" disbudded doe in milk, is that one that has a kid at the moment and you may sell her and the kid? Or that you are keeping the kid and possibly selling her when the kid weens or that is preggers? What color is this "maybe" disbudded doe in milk? And if you "might" know a price you are considering, would you pm me and let me know.


Lol! I make decisions about who I'm going to sell when I see the udders after they give birth. One our two does may be available for sale in milk after they kid if I determine that the doe's udder doesn't meet our standards. I won't know which does I might sell until they kids in January, February, and march. At which time I'll let you know


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## 8566

welcome to TGS ....
I can tell ..... you're a goat addict .

You're going to love the lil ones and the milk is so sweet and creamy.

Yummmmm


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> Lol! I make decisions about who I'm going to sell when I see the udders after they give birth. One our two does may be available for sale in milk after they kid if I determine that the doe's udder doesn't meet our standards. I won't know which does I might sell until they kids in January, February, and march. At which time I'll let you know


Hahahaha OK, so I have this T-shirt that says, "I smile because I have no idea what's going on" Let me change that to "I laugh because I have no idea what's going on".

So you are telling me that you judge does by their udders? I guess that kinda makes sense to me ---> a goat ignorant person <--- since men judge women by their breast LOL. I am afraid to ask what you judge the bucks by. 

OK so, it is the looks of them that you judge, not necessarily the quality and quanity of milk etc? Remember, I may be laughing but I am laughing at my ignorance so laugh with me. I am definitely learning! 



LilBleatsFarm said:


> welcome to TGS ....
> I can tell ..... you're a goat addict .
> 
> You're going to love the lil ones and the milk is so sweet and creamy.
> 
> Yummmmm


LilBleatsFarm, I don't think I'm an addict yet, LOL, if you notice the above response to quote, I have no clue LOL, just searching! I do agree that I think I will love them


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> Hahahaha OK, so I have this T-shirt that says, "I smile because I have no idea what's going on" Let me change that to "I laugh because I have no idea what's going on".
> 
> So you are telling me that you judge does by their udders? I guess that kinda makes sense to me ---> a goat ignorant person <--- since men judge women by their breast LOL. I am afraid to ask what you judge the bucks by.
> 
> OK so, it is the looks of them that you judge, not necessarily the quality and quanity of milk etc? Remember, I may be laughing but I am laughing at my ignorance so laugh with me. I am definitely learning!


Oh, the bliss of being a "goat teacher" - my new goat owner neighbors are always calling asking questions and call me "The Goat Lady" LOL  the learning curve is STEEP but it's a fun ride!!

Yes, I "Judge" does based on the shape, capacity (how much milk), attachments (how well the udder is attached to her body), the size, shape and placement of her teats, as well as her ease of kidding, whether she is capable of carrying more than one kid (she gets 2 chances to deliver twins or more - if she has kidded twice and only singles both times, then she will have to be sold), deliver them safely and take good care of them.  That seems like a LOT, doesn't it! Good thing such standards aren't applied to HUMANS 

ALL of my girls would be excellent home milkers and/or pets, but we are hoping to improve the breed by only breeding the best does to the best bucks we can find/afford. ;-) almost all the the girls are very sweet and super friendly as well (with a very few notable exceptions -- yes, Katie and Mood Swing I'm talking about YOU ), and we try to breed for good temperaments as well (I have noticed that sweet, friendly does bred to sweet friendly bucks generally give us sweet friendly kids - and the opposite can be true as well) however, even if you have a doe that's NOT so sweet or friendly, her kids can still be socialized like crazy (beginning at the moment of birth - I handle EVERY kid extensively - several times as day - so despite being raised by their mom's they are very friendly kids - and not usually jumpy and pushy as my bottle babies are).

As for bucks  they are "judged" based on their daughter's udders LOL - just can't get away from the boobs! 

[/quote= LilBleatsFarm], I don't think I'm an addict yet, LOL, if you notice the above response to quote, I have no clue LOL, just searching! I do agree that I think I will love them [/quote]

oh you just wait!! you haven't even met the little darlings yet!! You'll be as goat crazy as the rest of us in no time!! and you'll just LOVE how calming and peaceful they are - I have 6 (!!) children and any time I think "I can't take ONE MORE MINUTE of this craziness!!" I got sit on our porch and watch the goats browse in the field - in only a few minutes I'm right as rain again. Does WONDERS for the children as well!! I have a 3 year old that's LOUD and used to be a real handful - we got goats and she's so calm and sweet with them, LOVES "helping" feed them, and even helps with the pasture and shelter cleaning! my 2 year old is the same way 

and NO ONE can stay "down in the dumps" with BABY goats around!! :kidred::laugh::sleeping:


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> Oh, the bliss of being a "goat teacher" - my new goat owner neighbors are always calling asking questions and call me "The Goat Lady" LOL  the learning curve is STEEP but it's a fun ride!!


Ahhhh, you are really making me want a couple 

I saw a picture of your family on your WWNDG FB page and you have a beautiful family!! I also have a boxer.

Thanks for the explanations, it's fun learning!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> Ahhhh, you are really making me want a couple
> 
> I saw a picture of your family on your WWNDG FB page and you have a beautiful family!! I also have a boxer.
> 
> Thanks for the explanations, it's fun learning!


thank you! Winchester (our boxer) is a sweet boy, still taking about getting a sign that reads "property protected by Winchester" lol! You can come by anytime and meet the herd we even have a couple of kids on the ground so you can see how delightful they are.. I'll have you hooked in no time, even if you eventually decide on a different breed of goats, I'll consider it a job well done! One more happy goat owner out there changing the negative image that TV portrays don't know how goats ever got such a bad rap but times are a changin!!


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## sistachic

Haha, I love it! That would be a cool sign. My boxers name is Chaos! I could have a sign made, "Enter at your own risk but be ready for chaos"....

I'm not sure I would have a reason to be interested in any thing else, the Nigerian Dwarf sounds like it would be wonderful. I guess I need to do more research of course.

Do you work outside the home, I am guessing with 6 children that will be a no. You have the hardest job in the world. I raised 4 so I know.  

I would love to come down and meet you and see your goats at your conveninence. I work on Tuesdays and Thursdays in Athens. So any other day would be good. I go to church on Sundays, both morning and evening. I also ride a motorcycle so it would be an enjoyable ride down. Do you know Carman at Fugates? Do you live close to her? Or more out in the country?


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

I'm a stay at home mom 4 are in school but the youngest 2 are home with me and the herd. I may live near her, I'm down Bowater rd about 9 miles out of Calhoun on County Road 963. I'm almost always home ;-) but you might want to come out on a day it isn't raining (goats HATE rain lol). Not sure when this boot of rain will finally pass but we can certainly plan fir a day next week maybe Wednesday? Or if the grandkids are in school you can bring them on a weekend. or both! 

Hope to meet you soon!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Geez too many of those words were incorrect lol I'm typing on my phone and the autocorrect is annoying!


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## Brooks-of-Judah

Hi there! I'm in Tennessee, too. Just joined the forum today! I have a small herd of dairy goats (primarily Nubians, but I have one LaMancha milker), that I am slowly and meticulously building on. I agree with a lot of what's been said here. I tend to steer away from polled animals because they do tend to carry a recessive hermaphrodite gene, and any hermaphrodite is an immediate cull. Disbudding is not difficult, but imo it's a "2-man job". My husband and I usually disbud the kids at about 2 wks. We use a non-electric disbudding iron that we heat on the stove. I hold the critter steady and dh does the deed. And I have to say, disbudding doesn't really hurt. Ask me how I know! I've been "disbudded" twice, when the iron slipped and hit my arm or hand. I have the scars to prove it! But, because the hot iron cauterizes the spot where it touches, you really don't feel much pain.

Some of the things I look for in a dairy goat (doe):

1. Check for obvious faults, like more than 2 teats, hermaphrodism (look for a pea-sized nodule on the entrance to the vagina), overbite, etc.
2. Good, strong feet, strong pasterns.
3. Good attachments -- what this means is that the udder is attached snugly in the front and back, with no "pocket" in the front of the udder where you can stick your hand. If you can see roughly 1/3 the udder behind the leg and 1/3 the udder in front of the leg when you look at her from the side, that's about right.
4. For hand milking, you need large, pliable teats that you can get your hand around.
5. Deep, wide barrel, which shows she has a good capacity for eating, which translates to more milk.
6. If she's in milk, ask to taste some of her milk....why would you milk a dairy animal that has bad-tasting milk?
7. If she's not in milk, ask to look at a female relative (mother, sister, etc.) that IS in milk, so you can get an idea of what her udder looks like.

I recommend getting a dairy goat magazine, like The Dairy Goat Journal, and maybe some brochures from the American Dairy Goat Association, to get a picture in your mind of the ideal goat. Then, if there is something wrong with an animal you're looking at, it will stand out to you.

Good luck! And enjoy the new world of goats....they're a lot of fun!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

The polled discussion is a long and ongoing one. I would love to read the proof that the polled gene Carries a recessive trait for hermaphrodism. I am a member of a Yahoo group called Polled Goat Genetics. Many members there claim they bred polled goats to polled goats and have never had a problem with hermaphrodites. *I* wouldn't breed a polled animal to another polled animal, but some do with great success. If anyone is interested in more information on polled goats, please join the group and do research. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying I'd really love to see the proof- if there is any.

That being said, my mom is looking at buying a Nubian it two next year, where are you located and do you have a website?


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## sistachic

Do wethered goats stink? Does having a wethered goat make a good partner for a milking doe?


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## ThreeHavens

sistachic said:


> Do wethered goats stink? Does having a wethered goat make a good partner for a milking doe?


Properly wethered goats do not stink. I've raised three wethers, no stink at all, and they get along with my girls beautifully. My current wether pet is as calm and chill as can be.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Properly wethered goats do not stink. I've raised three wethers, no stink at all, and they get along with my girls beautifully. My current wether pet is as calm and chill as can be.


Yup ;-) Wethers are the perfect companion for a doe (next best thing is another doe) we have 4 Wethers currently (pets for the kids) sweetest little guys


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## Bambi

Welcome!


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## Brooks-of-Judah

It's been my experience that the only goats that smell are the bucks in rut (breeding season -- around September-December)....and any other goats they rub on!

I don't have a web site, and my herd is small (one senior doe, two junior does, and a buck), but I might have a buckling or two to sell in the spring. Right now, our bloodlines are mainly Pruittville, Blissberry, and Price of the Field. I sold off 3 does last spring -- along with a bunch of bucklings -- and bought one really good doeling from superior bloodlines. So, right now, the herd is at foundation level ...and building!

I live in Lincoln County, just north of Huntsville, AL, in Tennessee.


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## sistachic

Welcome Brooks of Judah! 

I am really leaning toward getting 2 females but will also consider a wether. I would love to find someone that has a healthy mama goat with a young doeling. That would be perfect but I think I am dreaming. I love the Nigerian Dwarfs, they sound perfect.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> Welcome Brooks of Judah!
> 
> I am really leaning toward getting 2 females but will also consider a wether. I would love to find someone that has a healthy mama goat with a young doeling. That would be perfect but I think I am dreaming. I love the Nigerian Dwarfs, they sound perfect.


Not dreaming at all. Most of us sell off a young doe or two each year, and even if you can't get a doe and HER doeling, you can always get a doeling from another doe. Or get a wether and keep a doeling out of her when you breed her.

Brooks- I'll try to find you when mom gets serious (hopefully it will be next year out the following)


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> Not dreaming at all. Most of us sell off a young doe or two each year, and even if you can't get a doe and HER doeling, you can always get a doeling from another doe. Or get a wether and keep a doeling out of her when you breed her.


LOL, I suppose I didn't really explain myself very well. I was thinking it but didn't write it all out..... I meant at this time of year.

I believe food products such as milk, dairy products etc and lots of different types of food for that matter are going to continue to rise in price. I feel I need to get some milk goats to help take care of my grandbabies. I have a few chickens, hoping to start getting fresh eggs by early spring.

I guess I am a worrywart of sorts. I am trying to prepare for whatever the future holds.


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## Brooks-of-Judah

I have two grandsons that were raised on goats' milk (besides my own 4 kids, in years past), and they thrived on it! They were hardly ever sick. And once a little one gets started on goats' milk, they don't want store-bought milk. It just doesn't taste right!


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## sistachic

My husband and I don't really use much milk, if I buy a half gallon of milk at the store we end up throwing over half of it out so I hate buying it but we eat a lot of cheese. So I figure I could make a little goat cheese and we would be happy too.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> LOL, I suppose I didn't really explain myself very well. I was thinking it but didn't write it all out..... I meant at this time of year.
> 
> I believe food products such as milk, dairy products etc and lots of different types of food for that matter are going to continue to rise in price. I feel I need to get some milk goats to help take care of my grandbabies. I have a few chickens, hoping to start getting fresh eggs by early spring.
> 
> I guess I am a worrywart of sorts. I am trying to prepare for whatever the future holds.


This was part of the reason we went with a dairy breed. If anything ever happens (comet his the earth or Armageddon, our whomever our current president is destroys the country, or another country succeeds in destroying us.... The list goes on)... Then we've at least got milk, and neat if I can ever bring myself to butcher one... Milk means cheese and yogurt, candles and soap... We aren't conspiracy theorists or anything, and I'm NOT making any political statements, but becoming at last partially self sustaining is becoming very popular. The Nigerian dwarf is awesome for a small family - a decent doe will give a quart or more a day. With 6 children, we use a gallon a day if I don't moderate them (I won't have to when we aren't buying store milk anymore!).

And your are right, this time of year there aren't many does for sale (especially with kids) - but you might want to check out Little Tots Estate in Loganville GA. Rusty sometimes has a doe or two that has recently kidded for sale, you might even be able to pick up the doe and her kid ;-)


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## sistachic

I just want a pet and a diary goat, what is a decent price for something like that? I don't want a show goat, it doesn't have to be registered, I just want it healthy.


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## liz

There are quite a few breeders "out there" that take pride in the health and care of their animals, even if they aren't registered. I started my little herd with unregistered pygmy/nigerian crosses and also milked my does, my herd was tested for CAE and Cl for the first time in 2009 and all came back negative....and I started in 2000.

In all honesty, just because a goat is listed at a "pet" price, it doesn't mean that it is un healthy or not "milkable"....ANY doe can be milked but not all does will have the best capacity, udder attachments or teat size that would make milking enjoyable for you or the doe.
Best thing you could do would be to check out local ads or even Craigslist for your area, if you see something that you think would fit what you want, don't hesitate to ask for a visit...seeing the animals, their surroundings as well as meeting the breeder will give you better insight as to the health and care they recieve. You would be able to tell wether or not a goat is healthy enough to be comfortable buying it as a milker for your family, and even if the goats you choose are not from a tested herd, you can have a vet do the testing once you get them to be sure they are free of disease...it's an added cost but one that could influence the purpose of the animal.
I chose to advance my herd into registered nigerians because I enjoy the milkability they provide as well as the overall cute pets they make...Knowing their bloodlines allows me to be able to see what quality's I want to improve upon and so far, I've gotten a start with some very nice udders with my does and hope to improve certain areas of confirmation with the bucks I have... I am also a breeder who is honest when it comes to potential buyers asking about certain traits, if I feel that a kid just doesn't appear to have what I'd like to see passed on from it's parents, I'd price them with a number that I would expect to pay for a potential pet or backyard milker.


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## sistachic

Thank you liz.

To be honest, it is all confusing. It is hard to trust when I am new to this. I checked about one today and they wanted $500 for her. That is why I was asking what a fair price is. 

I know it is costly to do all the things that are needed to make sure they are healthy etc, but golly $500 seems like so much. Is it? 

I may have to try for a different breed of them.


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## liz

If you are wanting Nigerians, base price on breeding does that are being sold to make room for those kids retained by the breeder will vary according to the does age and "performance"... personally, I would not pay more than $200 for a registered doe that is more than 6 years old and has not been shown, is not proven in the milk pail or does not have quality confirmation. Too many variables can happen there...udders can get lax with age, as does the number of times you can safely freshen her...I won't breed a doe beyond 10 years old, depending on if she is healthy enough after 8 years old.
The saying that you get what you pay for is most often true with goats...... you can pay $50 for a doe in milk but you just don't know what exactly that $50 is paying for

Some are priced high because of their pedigree, and those prices reflect the goats before them that have excelled in showing, milking etc.

My goats are not milk tested, though it is something that I would love to do, I do however keep sufficient barn records of their outputs as well as take yearly pics of udders to have proof that they are proven milkers. Their genetics make them what they are and some of the goats in my herds lines are well known while others aren't.


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## Brooks-of-Judah

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> becoming at last partially self sustaining is becoming very popular.


Some weeks back, when the country of Greece was in the depths of its economic turmoil, I heard a report on the radio, and the reporter was interviewing ordinary Greek citizens. One man was in tears, because he couldn't buy milk for his children. If war comes to our shores, or there's another Great Depression, the goats keep producing kids and milk (and cheese, and meat, and . . .) Now THAT is a good list of barterable items, if hard times should come! Trade a gallon of milk for a couple gallons of gasoline, or trade a goat kid for a bike. Who knows?

sistachic, you can probably purchase a good reliable milker for a couple hundred dollars, and I recommend requesting that she be tested for CAE, CL, and Johne's Disease before you buy her. The breeder should be able to do that for you, if you're willing to put up the $20-25 to have it done. That way, you know you've got clean animals coming onto your farm.


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## sistachic

liz said:


> The saying that you get what you pay for is most often true with goats...... you can pay $50 for a doe in milk but you just don't know what exactly that $50 is paying for


LOL I totally don't want someone else's problem kid  so I would be afraid of getting a $50 doe in milk, that would throw red flags up.

I think because I am trying to go to the big guys who have taken time and money to get where they are today because I want a healthy goat the prices took me by surprise. If they have show pedigrees etc then it is totally understandable.



Brooks-of-Judah said:


> sistachic, you can probably purchase a good reliable milker for a couple hundred dollars, and I recommend requesting that she be tested for CAE, CL, and Johne's Disease before you buy her. The breeder should be able to do that for you, if you're willing to put up the $20-25 to have it done. That way, you know you've got clean animals coming onto your farm.


Thanks Brooks, that sounds like a great idea for me to put on my list of things in my search. I figured a couple hundred dollars or three would be a fair price for a decent healthy milk goat.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Yup yup yup! You probably shouldn't pay more than 200 possibly 300 for a healthy unregistered doe (in milk), 

I *think* critter haven still has a few for sale, they have both registered and non registered Nigerians in TN. They were selling out last year, but I think they kept a couple just for milk. Google search Nigerian goat Critterhaven, you should find them no problem.

For registered does in this area, the price starts at a whopping $450 (and that's out of unproven dams - the price hours WAY up from there). Occasionally you can find a registered doe fir sale for 300 or 350, usually because a seller needs the animal moved quickly (I recently sold a yearling for $300 in order to be able to purchase our new Flat Rocks doeling). 

Also, big breeders will frequently "test out" new bucks by keeping several doelings out of him, and if his daughters don't "measure up" then they may be sold at a pet price without papers.

Hope that helps ;-)


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Also, just because we breeders cross "x" fantastic proven goat with "y"" fantastic proven goat does NOT always mean we will GET "Z"" fantastic proven kids... Genetics are tricky and sometimes a cross just does not mesh the way we hope it will, in which case the kids (or adults if the breeder waited to freshen her before making a final decision), would be sold in the manner I described above.


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## sistachic

Thanks WhisperingWillowNDG. I am learning more each day....


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> Thanks WhisperingWillowNDG. I am learning more each day....


we all are!!


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## HarleyBear

Just wanted to say thank you Whispering Willow... I loved everything I have learned on this thread.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

<blush> we all have something to learn, just giving back a part of ask that I have learned from here and elsewhere. I say Thank You for The Goat Spot, without which many of us would be completely lost ;-)


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## liz

I think we all learn something new each day, regardless of how long we've had our goats and having the input of those different learnings from each member really help make TGS what it is :hug:


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## sistachic

I have more questions,

At what age does a doe first come into heat? Is it called heat?
How often do they come in?
At what age is it ok to breed them?
How long does it take to carry babies to birth?

Thanks for being patient with me.


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## apachezgirl

Welcome sistachic  I am also new here to this site but not new to goats. I love my all kids (that's also including the human kids lol) I am partial to Alpines, Nubians, and Sannens.


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## Brooks-of-Judah

sistachic said:


> I have more questions,
> 
> At what age does a doe first come into heat? Is it called heat?
> How often do they come in?
> At what age is it ok to breed them?
> How long does it take to carry babies to birth?
> 
> Thanks for being patient with me.


Breeding season (called "the rut") is in the fall. A doe born in the spring will usually come in heat for the first time that next fall, when they are about 8-10 months old. You usually want to wait to breed a doe until she is 75 pounds or better. You can estimate the weight of a goat with a weight tape (you can get one from Hoegger's Supply), but you can make your own with a regular sewing tape-measure, by using a conversion table. Just put the tape around her girth, right behind her front legs, snug it up, and read the number off.

Some breeders prefer not to breed a doe her first year, just to get maximum growth before she starts kidding. When a doe kids, she begins giving milk, which is called "freshening."

I can't remember exactly how many days it is between heat cycles, but it's around once a month until she gets bred. Gestation is 5 months, and most goatherds dry off a doe 2 months before she kids, so her body can devote its resources to producing a healthy kid.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Some does come into "season" (heat) as early as 7Weeks, and some bucklings are able to impregnate a doeling (and/or their own mother) that early as well, it's rare, buy it does happen. So it's a very good idea to separate doe kids from buck kids at 6-7 Weeks old. 

Nigerians are year-round breeders, which means she comes into season each month (between 18-21 day cycle) until she is breed by a buck (if summer is particularly hot, she may stop cycling through the summer). Gestation is 150 days give or take 5 days, so as early as 145 days and as late as 155 is considered normal. 

Rut is in the fall and is a male goats' most prolific breeding time, he will STINK up the joint whether he had does to breed or not. He will pure on himself, drink the does' pee, run around like a crazy idiot, give himself "blow jobs", he may even climb fences and or jump them to get at the does.

If you are planning on having only one or two does, I would not recommend getting your own buck. Talk to whomever you purchase your doe (s) from, usually they are willing to have the doe bred by one of their bucks for a charge (or sometimes for free) -as long as you are willing to provide proof that your doe is disease free. 

Hope that helps


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## Brooks-of-Judah

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> Nigerians are year-round breeders, which means she comes into season each month (between 18-21 day cycle) until she is breed by a buck


Now see I didn't know that! When I gave my estimate of a doe coming in heat, I was drawing only on my knowledge of the big dairy breeds.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Sometimes I wish they weren't lol. Then there would be no chance of her getting pregnant before she is old, big, and mature enough to delivery kids safely. ;-) it does come in handy though, when/if she didn't settle (get pregnant), you can keep trying all year


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Which reminds me that I think I missed a question before... How old should you breed them, although I think someone already chimed in (I'm on my phone again and will lose this message if I go back and look)... So, SOME breeders in this area will say (or have told me anyway) that it is safe and healthy to breed a doe at 7 months old to kid on the month of her first birthday. Although that may work for them, *I* wouldn't recommend it. She may kid that young with no complications, but it's likely she will be too small. I recommend breeding at 1 yr old, IF she looks big enough and had lost that baby look (almost all are old enough and mature enough at a year to deliver safely). Jmho


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillow, oh my, LOL, Now I know I don't want a boy goat.....hahaha. 

I figured it would be something like how they say for dogs, not to do it til their 2nd or 3rd cycle so they are mature enough to have puppies and I agree.

OK, just trying to figure out how to go here.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> WhisperingWillow, oh my, LOL, Now I know I don't want a boy goat.....hahaha.
> 
> I figured it would be something like how they say for dogs, not to do it til their 2nd or 3rd cycle so they are mature enough to have puppies and I agree.
> 
> OK, just trying to figure out how to go here.


Whoops! All that yucky stuff only applies to BUCKS, not Wethers! Wethers don't do any of that stuff ;-)

Wethers (I think this has been covered but anyway!) are castrated bucklings. The castration can be done at any time, but ones done between 3 and 6 months old are best in my opinion. I do our boys at 3 months old (to give the urinary tract as much time as possible to mature, this helps prevent urinary calci blockages), or (if the scrotum isn't big enough for a band at that age) sometimes add old as 5 months (usually the "balls" are plenty big at 3 months for the procedure, but one of my bucklings born in April this year had to wait until just this month cause he's so tiny) ;-) -- put the band on and he was running around as though there was nothing wrong.

There are a couple of ways to castrate, we use the banding method (a thick rubber band specifically designed for this purpose) is applied to the testicles way up high (as close to the belly as possible), the band cuts of the circulation to the testicles, they atrophy and fall off aster a few weeks. After the first couple of hours (or minutes, or sometimes only second s) the little boy doesn't feel it anymore and isn't bothered by the band.

I've never had any complications wethering our boys this way, but many say it's inhumane (usually the same people that don't like disbudding). there is a very slight risk of infection, but is easily caught and treated if you pay attention to the wether - if the site of the band begins to smell bad or look swollen, then antibiotics can be administered and he'll be a-ok. Usually the process is smooth, the band goes on, in the first week the testicles shrink in size, then get hard, then fall off and voila he's a wether and will have a much easier life than a buck.

Many of the people that dislike banding use something called an emasculator that leaves the testicles intact, but crushes the veins that deliver the sperm from the testes to the testicles. I'm told this is an almost painless method, and with zero risk of infection. Feel free to pipe in if you use this method as I freely admit this is ALL I know about it ;-)

If your doe ever delivers a boy and you choose to wether him, either of the above methods I highly recommend.

A third method is one that quite frankly curdles my stomach... The sack the contains the testicles is cut open, and the testicles are cut (or pulled) out. Obviously not the most painless option, and not without risk of infection. But I wouldn't be honest if I didn't mention it as an option. Shiver.

Wethers are awesome pets, behaving much like a doe that had never been in season. They are free from the stresses of rut, mating, and kidding and are generally much happier for it. Bucks generally live shorter lives than does due to the stress of rut, mating, and competition among other bucks. A wether will usually live at least as long as a doe, usually longer if he is healthy as there's no risk of death during kidding as they age. They are awesome companions for does and bucks, and are frequently used as therapy animals ;-)

I'm SURE I rambled on far too long about that subject!


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG, I enjoy reading your stuff, thank you for taking time to explain these things. 

Actually a wether sounds cool and not only that, making them a wether by banding sounds simple enough. I was concerned about that if I ended up with a buck baby.


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## sistachic

I need five more post to pm!


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## sistachic

I need four more post to pm!


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## sistachic

Sorry everyone, but I need 3 more post to pm.


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## sistachic

2!


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## sistachic

ONE!!!! Guess you can tell I need to pm someone! 



:fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

sistachic said:


> ONE!!!! Guess you can tell I need to pm someone!
> 
> :fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:


Lol :-D glad you are official now!


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## sistachic

Me too because I sent you a pm LOL.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

You are too funny!


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## cybercat

Welcome to the forum. My advise do not cut corners on quality of a milker. It can cost way more to feed a poor quality doe as a well breed one. If you have to take doe to the vet once for something that good breeding and quality care could have prevent then you wasted your money.


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## KarmakeeFarm

I have had goat of all types-except Togg and Obers-as they are not pletiful in these parts-In my humble opion Sannens and La Machas are the best tempered-Alpines are bossy and loud-Nubian are loud and demanding :] Nigis are hard to prepapre a fence for but I think the butterfat in the milk and those itty bitty adorable kids are worth the effort!


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## Brooks-of-Judah

I've had Alpines, LaManchas, and Nubians. Nubians are my favorite, as they seem to be the hardiest, the least trouble. Plus, I just like their personality. Nubian bottle-babies (raised on a bottle) think they're human, and they just follow me around, wanting to know what I'm doin'! I have a LaMancha right now that's LOUD. Any time I step out the door, she hollers at me! It's been about 18 years since I've had Alpines, but IIRC, they're pretty calm and a little aloof, compared to my Nubians.


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## sistachic

I have been so busy I haven't been back here til tonight, had in laws visit from Florida, then revival afterward for a few nights and the church I attend is moving to a new building so it has been a little hectic in my life. I haven't given up the idea of getting some goats but just had to put it on the back burner for a little while. 

I saw the cutest little Nubian doe today, one of the neighbors got it, I felt bad for it though because it is alone. The neighbors children were playing with it and picking it up and it wasn't trying to run from them, was very gentle. I read that the Nubians can have problems with their ears?

Right now I sure am partial to those adorable Nigerian Dwarfs but a Nubian isn't out of the question. Gosh, I need a few of each LOL.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Good to "see" you again! My mom is VERY partial to Nubian, trying to get me interested in a doe or two to breed mini nubians lol. I said NOPE I'll stick with my Dwarfs  

I LOVE those ears! And mini nubians are ADORABLE (especially when they keep the Nubi floppy ears lol

How are your chickens doing?


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## sistachic

WhisperingWillowNDG said:


> Good to "see" you again! My mom is VERY partial to Nubian, trying to get me interested in a doe or two to breed mini nubians lol. I said NOPE I'll stick with my Dwarfs
> 
> I LOVE those ears! And mini nubians are ADORABLE (especially when they keep the Nubi floppy ears lol
> 
> How are your chickens doing?


Hmmm a mini nubian, that sounds fantastic LOL. The ears are so cute. From what I have been reading, mixes are really great but of course I am sure that depends on what the mixes are made up of.

My chickens are great LOL, my mother in law (who I would compare to Lisa on Green Acres as far as citified, dahling) got a kick out of me and my chickens. Me because I was picking them up and talking to them and them cooing at me. I have one particular one that "purrs" every time I pick her up, so sweet and the rooster that loves for me to pick him up and pet him, both of them are EE's. I am a mess I tell ya, my husband just shakes his head at me. 

I told my mother in law I was getting some goats and she said she doesn't know what to think of me. When I first got the chickens I emailed her and told her, she said I had gone too far, (she was teasing....well sorta) so I told her I hadn't gone too far, that a cow was next. :dance: So when she was here on her visit I mentioned the goats and I think she was just relieved that I wasn't getting a cow, hahahaha. But, after she saw me with my chickens, I think she understood a little more, those chickens are like therapy. TeeHee!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Yes indeed, can't remember how I managed my life without my goats! 6 children can drive a woman out of her head! 

People (family) frequently ask how I manage the kids, my hubby, the house, AND the goats. My reply is always "I don't know how I'd do all the other things WITHOUT the goats to keep me calm." MUCH cheaper (and more effective I imagine) than "therapy"


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