# Too soon to be bred????



## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

Finally got some dates in regards to my goats!

Two does, one (unnamed yet) delivered triplets 3 weeks early around March 1, the other (Queenie) delivered twins on March 21. 

The unnamed was bred on May 12 for sure, and possibly several times after that, so is there really a possibility she is pregnant?

Queenie they aren't positive of a date, but she was also in the pen with the buck, and he was seen mounting her several times. She is still nursing the kids.

This seems awful close together to me. Going off the May 12th date, she should be far enough along for BioPryn to pick up a pregnancy, and I've already ordered vials from them. Should I test for pregnancy, and if she is, do I let her have the kid(s) or ????


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally would never have my does bred so soon after delivery....the one that delivered the triplets, did they survive and if not, was she dried off or milked?
Accidents happen and if they are pregnant, which they likely are...depending on their condition at this point, if you feel that they can be healthy and support a second pregnancy as well as lactation this year, then let them...if not, I'd see if a vet would be willing to give them Lutaluyse.

The doe with the kids still nursing will need to be separated from them and dried off 2 months before she delivers the next..but because they are old enough now to be weaned and this pregnancy is so close to the last..I'd dry her off once you know for sure she is preggy.


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

liz said:


> I personally would never have my does bred so soon after delivery....the one that delivered the triplets, did they survive and if not, was she dried off or milked?
> Accidents happen and if they are pregnant, which they likely are...depending on their condition at this point, if you feel that they can be healthy and support a second pregnancy as well as lactation this year, then let them...if not, I'd see if a vet would be willing to give them Lutaluyse.
> 
> The doe with the kids still nursing will need to be separated from them and dried off 2 months before she delivers the next..but because they are old enough now to be weaned and this pregnancy is so close to the last..I'd dry her off once you know for sure she is preggy.


The triplets were 3 weeks early and did not survive. The previous owner said they think one of the kids died in utero and that's what triggered the early labor/delivery, but he isn't positive. She was milked by their neighbor until about 3 weeks ago. Now that I've touched her udder, I don't feel milk like I do with the other one. I wouldn't have a clue how to know if she could support a pregnancy right now? I know I can feed her properly for it, but how do I know if she's healthy enough? She looks healthy, eyes are bright, mouth seems OK, she's active and friendly, though she seems a bit thin to me (they both have like "hollows" under the top of their hip bones?).

I have someone coming around the 1st of July to teach me to trim hooves and she will do blood draws for me to send off for CAE and pregnancy testing. I think BioTracking shipped my vials and needles today, so assuming the May 12 breeding took, I will know she's pregnant around 2 months, is that too far along for the Lut? I still have to find a vet. "The Goat Lady" said I will find vets that will treat goats, but that none in the area are very knowledgeable about them. There is a vet that works with my husband, I doubt he treats goats, but he might be willing to do the shot if I could show him documentation of dosage and such.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Going by the looks of them in the pic you had posted...they both could use some more meat on their bones....good hay and a good grain mix as well as the browse will help with that...as well as having a fecal run to be sure it's not parasites causing the thin look of them. The kids are old enough to be weaned as it really looks as though their mom is putting alot into the milk supply.
Lute is given IM at a 2cc dose, if given 11 days after breeding it will cause the doe to reabsorb the embryo....if given later it will cause her to abort and she will go into labor and deliver an unviable fetus.
There is controversy over doing this but if the does health is questionable, it's sometimes best to abort and allow her to be healthy enough for a pregnancy first.


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

Bumping this up with some pics for opinions. We've finally named our goats, LOL, so we have Star (her triplets were born premature in early March and died), Dancer (twins born March 21, Blitzen is a doeling, Comet is a wether)

I finally put Dancer on the stanchion today and tried to milk her. First I tried with a homemade milker, I did Mason jars like the Henry milker, but I attached a human breast pump to it, so it wasn't constant suction, it had pulsations like a normal milker would. Anyway, I don't think the suction was strong enough (darn it, I thought I'd had a brilliant idea!), so then we brought the laptop out and read, read, read about let-down and FINALLY figured it out. Thank goodness for a patient doe who loves her shredded alfalfa hay  Once I figured out how to squeeze "hard" enough to prevent the milk from going backwards, we got it! I milked about a cup total from both sides. (Mid-afternoon, babies still nurse)

While I had her on the stanchion, I noticed she is REALLY filling out. Now, I've been trying to feed them well, but I can almost guarantee I'm not overfeeding, so I'm really starting to think maybe she is pregnant again. First 2 pics are when I got her around June 2, the last two are from today. Does she look pregnant?

June 2nd-ish:

















Today, July 8:

















In this thread, she's the doe on the left (darker underneath) with the kids, see how gaunt/thin her hip area was?

Thoughts? I'm still trying to find someone to draw blood for me to send off for a pregnancy test on both of them. The other doe is larger than she was when I got them, but she isn't as "fat" or round as Dancer is.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

They may be pregnant but wether they are or not they need more meat on those bones. I would be feeding her well in small amounts of grain and unlimited hay.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Also be sure they have free choice loose minerals and baking soda.


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

freedomstarfarm said:


> Also be sure they have free choice loose minerals and baking soda.


They have free choice hay and forage, free choice loose minerals and baking soda, a SweetLix 20% MeatMaker block, and the mom in milk gets 3lbs of grain per day, the other doe and the two kids get 1lb grain per day.

My grain mix is 17% alfalfa pellets, 16% goat feed, and 12% (I think) sweet feed, 50lbs of each mixed together. I add 1 cup of BOSS to the mom's grain per day and 1/2c to the other goats' grain.

I feed them grain twice a day (not double what I said above, I split it in half for each feeding), they have grass hay all the time and plenty of forage.

They look MUCH "thicker" than when i got them.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well sounds like you have them taken care of well. If you can get that pregnancy test done that would be good. IN their condition if they are pregnant I personally would dry them up now so they can put the food nutrients you are giving into themselves and the growing kids not the milk production.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

In the before pictures yes she is thin but now she looks fine. I wouldn't pull the kids just because she is thin, I would let her take care of them if she is a good mom. 

I know people who do back to back pregnancies and its not god aweful. 

if you can get a picture of her pooch I could tell more if she is pregnant or not. 

Is she still feeding kids or milking? If so you want her dried off a month before kidding.


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

She is still nursing the kids right now.

Star is my dry doe, Dancer is the mom that's still nursing.

I put a few pooch pics at Pooches


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Pooches look like open does to me


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

Still learnig all the terminology, open means not pregnant?


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Catalytic said:


> Still learnig all the terminology, open means not pregnant?


yep :thumb:


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## Catalytic (Jun 8, 2011)

COOL! I'm still going to send off the blood test, because I want to do the CAE testing anyway, but it would give me a great deal of relief to know she isn't pregnant!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

blood test is pretty accurate so that will be your best route to go to know for sure :thumb:


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