# Nothing to compare to.... (Lung Worm?)



## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

I have never had a packgoat. so have nothing to compare Sully with. Maybe this is normal?
As I have mentioned before. Sully getting winded and coughing.
I wormed him on June 23rd. With Ivermec. Maybe I am just expecting too much too soon. Or maybe he has just had too easy of a life. And just needs more excersize. 

but I took him out today. and the huffing and puffing. 
Coughing. and the snuffling (sounds like a pig in a trough)
is still there. 

I will be giving him his second dose of wormer this wed.
Am I expecting too much too soon?
Should I just stop feeling sorry for him and take him out on walks
anyhow? He does not stop and lay down. Just makes me feel
sorry for him. 

I have been in contact with the last two owners. Asking them about
pnemonia when he was young, irrigated property.
The one owner said that the heat bothered him. So that is why she sold him to people that lived in a higher elevation.
They never packed him. 
I live even higher. 4100 feet. 

If time or excersize does not cure the problem. He will never make a pack goat. And I am attached already.

I am just feeling really frustrated today.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Hello,

I'd suggest you start a detailled exercise regimen for him like you would do to condition a horse.

First week: walk 30 minutes daily
Second week: walk 45 minutes daily
Third week: walk 1 hour daily

start a diary, note what you observe during the walks. Write down breathing frequency before the walk, righ after the walk and 15 minutes later. Same with pulse. See if he improves.

Have a vet listen to his lungs and his heart. Goats have way smaller lung capacity than horses and any scar tissue or constriction in the lungs can cause them to get winded. Have him checked for anaemia which can also cause trouble with breathing and if necessary treat him for it.

Pat Coleby suggests high dose vitamin E over several weeks to mend damage to lung tissue.

After the first three weeks you should see improvement.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Should this be a fairly brisk walk?
Take the pulse at the juggler, right?

I am so happy to hear there is still hope.
Thank you, R


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

walk in the same style/speed you would at a hike. If you see he can take the normal speed you can add periods of brisker walking but for now I would go with a rather low base-line and develop his stamina from that.

No sense in pushing him to his limits every time.

About pulse taking: I'll have to check today if you can feel a goats pulse beneath the jaw like in horses - bear with me.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Thanks. I just looked and my phone has a stop watch on it.

so that may help with the pulse counting.

R.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Hello,

it seems, I have dead goats. I found the vein at the underside of the jaw but couldn't get a pulse long enough to get a count. The goats wouldn't keep still, too.

What you can try, if you have a watch, etc. with an alarm function (so you don't have to keep an eye on it) is counting the pulse you can see at the jugular. But easiest should be to invest a little money in a stethoskop (here in Germany you get simple ones for less than 5 USD) and listen to the heart (each beat - one pulse).


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

First have him checked for lungworms. This is a separate test and sometimes gets skipped. Ivermectin doesn't work well for them. High doese of fenbendazole, brand name Panacur or Safequard work but they need to have repeated doses.

I had one goat that for 13 years coughed for the first 10 minutes of the hikes. Even when he was in superb condition. TUrns out he had allergies. You might try a benedryl right before you hike and see if that has any effect. Sonny never coughed at 8,000 feet or above.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Diego coughs once or twice at the start then is fine the rest of the time.

He sounds like me in the morning just getting cleared out.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Dead goats/no pulse. ha ha. 
I have a stethscope. Just need to learn to use it. LOL

I wormed him with Ivermec because I thought that was
one of the remedys for Lungworms. I gave him enough Ivermec for a 500 lb goat. Then A good friend of mine who raises saanen show
goats gave me some wormer she buys. Can not remember the name of it. I am suppose to give it too him tomorrow.

I have a tube of panacur. But I have not given it to him.

Yesterdays walk is when he was coughing. today he only coughed
once. But panted the whole time. But none of that nose snuffling.
there is alot of pollen from the buck brushe. Cars are yellow with it.

I forgot to take his pulse.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*



ryorkies said:


> I have a stethscope. Just need to learn to use it. LOL


It's quite easy once you found the heart. I remember my training as homoepathic practioner, how often did we have "dead horses" standing in front of us until we were able to find the heart:

Left side (goats left side  ), slightly hidden under the ellbow joint

If your stethoskop has a membrane of some sort at the listening tube, see if you can remove that. The crackling of the hair against this membrane can muffle smaller sounds.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

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> But panted the whole time.


Goats are like dogs... but completely different. I am sure they pant to cool themselves. The saddle blankets have never been wet from sweat.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

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Hello,

yes, goats can't sweat and have to pant to cool themselves down.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Well he starts panting less than 10 minutes into the walk.
But is panting the same 30 and 40 minutes into the walk.

It was a rather warm day today. I gave him another dose of wormer.

Wish I knew the name of the wormer. I know it covers tape worm.

Should I worm again in 2 weeks. 
I have ivermec or panacur.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Hello,

I'm no friend of filling the goats up with chemicals unless there's a need to - so I'd speak against worming him again in 2 weeks unless you have proof that he is - still - overloaded with worms.

Do you know how to do fecal exams? Or have a lab at hand that can do them? Before worming next I'd have the droppings checked if there are still worms. Maybe your goat carries worms that are resistant against the wormer.

Can you do your walks at another time of day to check if his panting is heat related? Althoug, starting to pant after 10 min. is rather unusual for a goat that is at least a bit in shape.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

The second dose of wormer is called valbazenn.
It is also for lung worms.

Today it was cloudy. so a bit cooler. He took a bit
longer to start panting. since it was a cooler day.
I walked longer. An hour. But all skid roads. No cross country
stuff. Panting, But maybe wishful thinking. but seemed less to me.

NO coughing. No sneezing. 
Yesterday. He did not munch much. Today he stopped and
nibbled often.

On days I do not work I could walk him in the morning.

We(hubby and I) install carpet. Yep, I do it all. Tackstrip, pad, stretch, seams, trim out. Haul around the carpet. It is very physical.
Last thing I feel like doing is going for a 1 hour walk when I get
home. LOL but am doing it because I know I need to condition
Sully. Hey. I do get a benefit from the extra excersize too. LOL

Contractor jobs are feast or famine. Right now we have lots of 
work. A month ago. NOThing. So days I do not work. I can
walk earlier.

I read some where that if lung worms had damaged the lungs.
Give him vitamin E.

Yes, I could probably take a fecal into my vet. He is a small
animal vet. But worms are worms when it comes to inspecting
Scat.

I have not had Sully that long. and when I brought him here
it was very stressful for him. I know stress can be a contributing
factor to increasing the worm population in a digestive system.

As I said. Maybe wishful thinking. But I think I am seeing improvement. (fingers crost)


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Hello,

I can only emphasize that you start a diary, at least take down his vitals whenever you hike with him. It takes only a few minutes and you will have in "black and white" what you now only guess and hope.

BTW - it took me about 6 weeks when I started with my boys to get them in shape and we walked every day (I was unemployed at that time). I now make it a habit to let them not get out of shape that much but before a day hike I would again have to work out - me and the goats. Having them clearing brush all summer long helps - all the climbing up and down steep pastures, standing up in the trees and bushes and the moving between pastures keeps them at a decent level of stamina.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

I will figure out the pulse thing when I have a day off.
It seems right now I am lucky to just walk. In a way.
my diary is right here. LOL Hope you do not mind.
But if I leave it here. I can get imput.

Today. the weather was muggy but cooler. Overcast.
(mosquitos love it)
He hardly panted at all. but did cough a couple of times.
Made that snuffleluffgous sound a couple of times.

I started out at a pretty brisk walk. But slowed it down 
after the cough.

Also. The last to entries were walks from the neighbors 
property. They are not happy over there. so could
of been stressed all day.

Today I left them in their pen. And they were alot happier.

Sully likes to make me drag him when leading. 
Well I found a solution that helps me not work so hard.
My dog likes to drag me. so I loop Sullys lead into the dog
lead. And the dog (Buddy) drags Sully. Sully is not
afraid of Buddy. So dragging his feet while being lead
is not because of Buddy. Today I lead Sully myself, and he is
is much easier to lead now. 
Thank you, Buddy!

Thanks for all your help, R


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Valbazen is a good wormer for that. A lot of worms haven't built up any resistance to it since it isn't used as often as some of the others.
If you don't have a lab to do a fecal for you I'd go ahead and give him the second dose. It is really important to get lab work done but sometimes people just don't have a vet around to do it. More important to get the worms cleared up, especially since you seem to be seeing improvement..

Goats don't sweat. they dissapate heat by panting. Another overlooked way they cool off is thru their ears. Why do you think those Nubians and Boers have such big ears?


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

Today my friend with the saanens, she shows them.
She gave me some Bo-CE, Vitamin A/D, and a vaccination
Which I think was tetnus and somthing else.

I do not know when he was last vaccinated. .

She has been doing goat for 20 years. Just not pack goats.

maybe this will help him along.

He has had two doses of wormer. Ivermec, and Valbenzen.

Coughed yesterday on the walk. But breathing seemed
more stable.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

I'd wait a week and give him another round of valbazen. This seemslike a lot but lungworms are stubborn buggers and if he's had them long they may not all be gone.

I normally don't recommend this much wormer but if you have no access to a vet, it's better to treat than let them be sick.


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## Perry (May 8, 2009)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*

One of our goats had lungworm (per lab tests). After treating him, it still took quite a while (months) for him to fully regain his lung capacity/stamina.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Nothing to compare to....*



Perry said:


> One of our goats had lungworm (per lab tests). After treating him, it still took quite a while (months) for him to fully regain his lung capacity/stamina.


Thank you,
I needed that. Yesterday he was mopy.
It was the day after the vaccination. So I attributed it
to that.

He must have had them when I got him. And the 
trip here caused him to stress and let the worms
take over.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

I do believe he is better...
I been going on 1 to 2 hour walks.
While he does pant. I get maybe only
1 or 2 coughs near the end. 
The temp has been 85 to 89 degrees.
But with a light wind. Nice for keeping the
skeeters off. LOL

Maybe if this keeps up next week. I will
add the pack saddle. And I guess I may
as well add a pack to myself also.

I would love to through a dog pack on the
nigerian. LOL

R.


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