# Goat kid born premature???



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have a kid that I don't think it going to make it. It isn't weak enough to do anything and I have had to assist it with breathing.

I began to look and suspect it is premature as it was supposed to be another two weeks before birth. I thought maybe the buck got her a earlier than I knew but then noticed the following. The eyes are not open and cannot be opened by hand and the teeth are not fully through the gums although you can see them coming in.

I have a wine cork cut down to about 2/3 length holding its mouth open, otherwise it won't breathe.

Any tips? I hate to lose one but don't want to spend a fortune on a mixed breed male kid. Since the eyes are still firmly shut, how early do you say it is?

Conor


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately sounds like he isn't going to make it. If he can't breathe through his nose, that is really bad.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

*I have talked to others who agree.*

Unfortunately I don't think there is any hope for this one as everyone else I talked to agrees. The hoof material has also not developed. They said you are two weeks or more early when the eyes are not opened. He has hair but that is it.

I think the mother was bred too young and I was worried about this. The bucks broke down a couple fences and found an orgy going on in my yard when I returned home one day. Based on that date she should have given birth about Feb 9th.

He is still alive so I will keep him comfortable.

Conor


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

So very sorry. Running a humidifier might be helpful.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I think the cause was that the mother was only 4.5 months old when bred. I just looked at my records and that was the issue. A few others thankfully didn't get bred as they came into heat much later on. I suspect they were too young which I am glad.

It is a constant battle to keep the males away once they come into heat the the boys just lose their mind completely! Sometimes I wonder if it would be best to borrow or rent a stud when needed. It is sure convenient having a buck around though as they don't all come in at the same time.

Conor


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

The larger buck also got her which might have been part of the problem. The kid has no ears. The buck is part Lamancha and has the elf ears and this kid looked just like him. This made him extra cute but may have also been the problem. The other smaller buck had normal ears so this narrowed it down the culprit.

Conor


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a double hot wire on the inside of my buck pen fence - this helps keep them away from it - may work for you also. 
I would be sure to keep ludalyse (not sure of spelling) on hand. You could abort the pregnancy if something like that happened. I personally hate using the meds unless really necessary but a baby being bred is not a good deal.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

I don't know if there's any point trying to give him colostrum--especially if you have to use a stomach tube which has got to be traumatic. Maybe just an eyedropper? I'm just one of those people who hates to give up, even when it's probably best for the animal if I did. It sounds like you're being realistic.

I'm so sorry for what you guys are going through! Bucks can be impossible to contain sometimes. I have a whole collection of broken metal clips from the gate that's supposed to keep my buck in. I'd think I got the fence shored up enough & then he'd find another part to crash down. For future reference, the moderators can advise you on the use of Lute if another doe gets bred too early. It seems like accidental/unplanned breedings just come with the territory when you own a buck. That's certainly been the case with most goat people I know! Once again, please know that you have our sympathy.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If he is mouth breathing, tubing is the only way to go to give him colostrum.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Somehow he began to breath on his own and tried to move/cried out. I left him overnight to see if his eyes would open on their own and they would not. I talked with several people who have raised goats for much longer than myself and they say that the eyes being closed suggests a VERY premature baby, like 2-3 weeks as I suspected based on the suspected breeding date. It sounds like the lungs really develop in the last 10 days so am amazed he made it through the night.

One thing that has developed is the testicles. Nothing else may be developed but these are plainly quite large even for a goat born at the correct time. It seems like this is a species were breeding is setup to be a main priority from the start.

Yes, I have redone my hot wire since this all happened. I used to have like a 5-6 hot wire fence and that was it. They would go right through this. I added a woven wire fence on the backside but the problem was then that they would try to break through and ground out the hot wire on the woven wire which I have wired right into the ground.

That wire was old and pretty lousy so I redid it with the thicker 14 gage wire and also reduced it to 3 main strands with the woven wire as the ground to simplify things and hopefully keep them from grounding it out as easily. I don't think it has been tested yet but I am not always watching either. It hasn't been grounded out yet which would have never happened with the old setup.

He is still with us but I think the best thing is probably to put him down at this point.

Conor


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. Either put him down or start tubing colostrum. But you really need to get colostrum into him now.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If you want to try to save him:

Put him on a heating pad, watch a YouTube video on how to stomach tube, milk colostrum from the doe and tube him. Make sure rectal temperature is over 100 F before tubing the colostrum. 

Get Dexamethasone from a vet to help the lungs develop. Begin antibiotics to ward off pneumonia since the lungs are compromised. 

Also inject B-Complex vitamins.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

He is still with us and I am home now. I have him in a box in a warm environment. I called the vet as I thought this was worth a shot since he was still living.

Anyway, I am going to head back out and get a Manna Pro kid milk replacer or something like that from a feed store. Obviously he isn't a complete wimp to still be alive so might as well give him a chance.

The mother has no milk as she wasn't ready. Her udder is enlarged but no milk came out when I tried milking. She just wasn't old enough to be bred as I explained. Do you think this milk replacer will be OK or not? This is my first kid of the year so there will be no others to go on and I suspect my next birth will be Feb 9th.

I cannot leave for about another hour but will check back here right before I go to see if anyone suggests anything else.

Conor


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I know colostrum is important. Do you think he is a lost cause without it?

Conor


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## Luckthebuck234 (Jul 15, 2015)

He does need it ASAP, or he will not make it. As much as I hate powdered milk, they do make a powdered colostrum that would at least help until she has milk. You should be able to find it at Tractor Supply or any other feed store, near you. I would try milking her once more before giving him that, if she still has no milk definitely get him some powdered colostrum. It is very important and I would say he is a lost cause without it.


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## Luckthebuck234 (Jul 15, 2015)

Also, if you have a friend who has goats that have had kids recently you may be able to get some colostrum from them...I know its a long shot but just thought I would throw that in there


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I found a local feed store with powdered colostrum on hand and am heading there now. I know this may not be ideal compared to the real thing but time of important now as it has been approximately 24 hours at this point since birth and he has had no food. I didn't think he would last through last night so kinda gave up until he was still kicking today. I am headed out now.

I just checked and he is still with us and resting so am going to give this a shot. I am sure I will have other questions about taking care of one like this.

Conor


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would not give him milk replacer, it is hard even on healthy kids. I don't think he would be able to digest it. Just give plain cows milk the more natural the better like organic pasteurized.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Rooting for him! Were you able to get the dex?


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Not yet. I got a Manna Pro colostrum replacement for now and got 6.5 3cc syringes worth of the stuff in him before he lost interest. He seemed to want it at first and then not. That is about 2/3 of a fluid ounce which doesn't seem like a lot. I didn't want to force it and figure he will want more later so would rather do several smaller feedings than one that was too large. How can you tell if he is being overfed or underfed? The package says between 1/4 and 1/2 cup for goat kids but I am sure there are a few where this doesn't apply.

So you are saying that organic cow's milk is better than milk replacer? How about the powdered colostrum?

Also, they have goat milk at Wal-Mart in cans as well as cartons. I am sure it is pasturized but why not use this instead?

I didn't get any of the medicines yet. I figure I will see if he makes it through the night and pick this stuff up tomorrow at a vet. Would a farm and feed store have it as well? They have many vaccines and wormers so maybe they will.

I am sure most places are closed and I wasn't planning to run back out. Basically Wal-Mart and grocery stores are open at this time of night and that is it. If a different milk is important, I can go get that.

Conor


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Goat milk would be better in my personal opinion. Check his mom again--you know they have those waxy plugs on their teats & sometimes they don't come off on their own--I've never had this, but I THINK they're easy to remove.

It almost sounded like you weren't needing the tube to feed him? That would be nice. Sounds like he really is a fighter with a will to live, & it sounds like you've decided this is worth it for both of you. I wish you all the best & would love to hear how things go. I hope he makes it! Even if he has some disabilities--there are all sorts of stories about blind or disabled goats leading very happy (& cute) lives. Good luck!


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

On feeding--generally tummy should be rounder & kind of firm after a good feeding, but maybe it's different with premies? You can check for dehydration by pulling up a little skin & seeing if it goes down again (good) or stays up/goes back in place slowly (dehydrated, needs more.) Short frequent feedings & following his cues seems good, as I'm sure he tires easily.

Someone please correct me quickly if I'm wrong, but I believe the baby has to be in kind of an upright position with head up for the milk to go into the right stomach? He doesn't need to be in a standing position, just not lying on his side. I bet you could use rolled up towels to position him with his legs under him, & then put a somewhat larger pillow under his head to elevate it a bit if it's too awkward holding him & his head & the syringe. I've not had to do it with one in such condition. Wishing you both the best outcome!


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## Luckthebuck234 (Jul 15, 2015)

I like to have them standing(just in case) with head up but I don't think standing is crucial. Just as long as head is up and there not laying on their back or to the side(kind of confusing to explain, I know)
I hope he keeps hanging in there!


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Unfortunately he didn't make it through the night. He was just SO tired and yes, I had to hold his head as you explained. He was never close to being able to stand up. I guess he was just way too early. I figured he was a lost cause at first and then had hope when he managed to survive. Everyone I talked to was amazed he had survived if his eyes weren't even open. They said that they were surprised he even had fur at this point.

I checked the mother again and her udder is developed but not fully like you expect when they give birth. Picture an udder where it is just starting to fill out like a month or so before birth. That is what she looked like.

I think he would have developed fine had the mother been more ready. Unfortunately this small and young female was bred by my largest buck who is pushing 300lbs. The kid was of decent size and I wouldn't have known he was a premie based on size alone. He probably just grew to a size that her body could no longer support so she gave birth.

I think I will look into that birth control drug for next breeding season to avoid this in case some of the females get bred too early.

Conor


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There is no birth control drug. Lutalyse is an aborting drug. I'm sorry he didn't make it.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I see. How long after a breeding should this drug be given? Immediately or days later?

Conor


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

14 days after breeding occurred.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Oh no--how sad! I'm sure he felt comforted by your care & attention.:rose:


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