# Pigment



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I asked on a FB group and thought I would ask here. I'm really curious, especially for those who live in climates like ours (KY) vs. south or areas where it's warmer and drier.

How long does it generally take for your Boer kids to get the required pigment for showing?

It's usually not an issue, kid out in Jan-Mar, my kids typically start showing in early June, by then everyone is good.
This winter they've been stuck in the barn more than years past, so not a lot of natural Vitamin D (sunshine) so far. Overall they are fine, but have one from a family that matures into dark pigment, he is still very pink. I'm a bit disappointed since my kids want to go to a show next month. They don't normally show until June, so no one is show prepped/ready/etc. So we're just randomly trying to select a few they can take so they can participate. I'm so torn on if I should register him or wait for pigment to come in.

Thought I would post a pic to show what I mean. Also thought I'd update with any changes in the future to show progress. If anyone else has a pigment picture story to share that would be great.










I seriously have anxiety issues, and this time of year I want to stress about this or that, complain about this little fault or that one. I drive myself crazy. So it helps a lot to come here and chat with you all about it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What about giving him some vitamin D. I would think his pigment could change in a month but certainly not a guarantee.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I usually see dotted area's, then the kid fills in more and more as he or she gets older.

Not seeing much of any of them, is concerning.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Our other kids have more than this, but this is definitely frustrating. This whole family has dark pigment, his sisters have more pigment. I'm sure it will come, but I'm bummed it may not come as soon as I'd like. 
I'd give him Vit D but afraid I'd hurt him. Trying to get him outside more as weather permits. In the years we've raised goats, they've never been stuck inside as much as they have this year. We had record rainfall last month, have had very cold and wet weather this year, and just this past week had snow, it melted then had snow again a couple of nights later. Thunderstorms around 4am this morning, but thankfully it's nice out right now in the low 50s with some sun and overcast skies.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, I am not sure that A&D shot will have the same effect as the sun.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Maybe I should take him to a tanning salon? lol! Think they'd let him catch some artificial rays? I could try to find some cute swim shorts, glasses, and dress him up all nice and cute. He does have a snuggly, cute face and those ears.... so adorable! haha.

On a serious side. Maybe we'll just tie him out in the sun with his butt facing the sun all day. 

Ok seriously 

We'll just leave him alone and see what happens. Hopefully he gets it sooner rather than later so I don't have to worry.

I do wish the ABGA would post more than worded descriptions on their website. I honestly am not sure what the minimum required pigment looks like. It's a bit frustrating. Pictures would be so helpful. The same with correct and acceptable bites. Pictures take out a lot of guesswork.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You could use a cheap shop light to put a florescent daylight bulb over him. I used to do this for my winter does so that their udders wouldn't sunburn when summer came.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Goathiker! I wish I could do that, we don't have electric in the part of the barn where he generally stays  He just turned 6 weeks old, so still hoping he'll get that pigment if we can get him outside in the sunlight more. I wish this wet weather would cut us some slack. I keep looking at his rear end, it's a terrible obsession lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Can you explain to us dairy folks, what are you talking about when you say that behind does not have enough pigment? (This is for those of us now and in the future that may be totally mystified!) 
Again, I am learning more new goat things!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Ah but even white dairy goats are supposed to be pigmented. Completely pink skin is a fault. There should be spots and patches of dark skin under the white fur. The lips, nose, and eye rings should be dark as well. Like below, if you look under his tail he has spotted skin.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It must be 75% pigment at minimum.

At 3 months old, they should be showing spots, even if scattered a bit here and there.

I think ABGA shows may accept them if they have spot pigmentation starting and are under the age of 6 months old.

Found this old conversation:
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/boer-buckling-green-prospect.144770/


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

The buckling above when he was 3 days old, notice the pigment/dark spots on his face:









3-12-18 He does have 'spots' on his rear end, just more pink right now. 









His dam a few months ago - she's on the right, dark pigment










Grand dam (sorry she gets nasty when she is pregnant)









Great Grand dam









I don't have one of his sire, but he has good pigment.

So for people learning about pigment - the first post of the little buck - if he stays that 'pink' it would be a breed fault with the ABGA and he couldn't be shown.

However, like Pam said, most get their pigment in by about 6 months. The problem is, ABGA more recently had passed a rule stating that all goats had to have 75%, even young kids and percentage goats. A lot of people grumble about the rule in kids under 6 months. 
The problem is, with kids in colder areas where they spend more time inside, it's harder to get that pigment early on. I'm really hoping the ABGA will revise this rule.

The reason I think I've never complained about it is because we've never considered showing before June.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the pics.

I know what you mean.
ABGA is not fair on a few things.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I wish now I had taken more 'pigment' pictures as examples of changes especially for people new to this or have never paid much attention to pigment.
In the last few days I've noticed huge changes in some of the 4-7 week old kids. Several have gone from so/so to starting to get really dark pigment, including the sisters to the buck in my original post. I've noticed his tail is starting to look a little different, so I really should get a picture once a week to show any changes, I'll try to do that tomorrow when weather is better.
Yes, I had to come on here and share the excitement of butts and tails getting darker lol.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That's about great idea. I have a white dairy buckling is could document beside the Boer buckling for a two sided view.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow...This is all completely new to me. My girls and I read through the dairy standards for their breeds (LanMancha and Nigerian) before they show each summer, but I don't ever recall anything about "pigment". The closest I can think of is the fussiness about Saanens' fur being all white. I never knew the color of the skin underneath even mattered.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I will try to get some pictures in a little since it's a little nicer outside. It would be neat to compare boer to dairy and show the differences!

I believe Boer goats are probably the only ones who are picky about pigment? But because they originate from South Africa, and it's a breed standard that originated from there. A goat with pale/white skin exposed to the sun every day could certainly contract skin cancer. I don't know the odds of that happening, but it must be enough of an issue for them to make it a cull factor.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

When I had Boers, and being mostly dairy I had them running with my dairy girls, they kidded in the late winter. They didn't get to go outside for at minimum a month, usually longer due to my outside pen set up. The pigment was always late coming in, but would usually start to darken within a few days of their being, finally, outside. They never got a ton of sun, because their outside pen was surrounded on 3 sides (east, south and north) by trees, but it was enough to get the process started. Good luck to you, I hope he tans!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree Lottsagoats, for some babies it just really takes time and good weather. This winter has been very wet which has kept ours inside more the last few months than any past winter. 
The buck kid I pictured above I think just turned 7 weeks old, I see some changes to his tail but nothing big, not sure a picture would show it, but hope to get one tomorrow since I wasn't able to today. Some of the babies have really gotten dark over the past week, then changes are really neat IMO - including his triplet sisters.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

It's been almost a month, and he's slowly changing, but not as much as I had hoped. Weather still hasn't been great either. I did clip his tail hair this evening (after photo), and we should have some sunny days, so we'll see if it helps. He's a nice young buck regardless of pigment.

So original taken on 3-15









4-10









All those new dark spots are pigment, not dirt.

He's 9 weeks old.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Not sure it is useful as the pictures weren't taken for pigment.

This doe is 12.5% Boer
3/10/17 (24hrs old) almost no pigment except for tiny dot 








12/17/17 (9 months old) Ignore the red goo, it was addressed at the time...but shows pigment well!)









So this doe while improved is far from where it would need to be


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, it is slow coming in.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Arbor Goats - that looks about right for a true low % boer IMO. I wonder what % they would consider her pigment. I know they have to have 75% whether they are % or FB, which IMO doesn't entirely make sense for % goats.

Pam - I agree, very slow coming in. I trimmed his tail hair and they spent most of the day grazing in a little pen next to the house - sunshine. To me, he looked a bit sunburned, so maybe the trim will help his pigment come in. he did have really long tail hair.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I figure I'd add some other pictures of him to share. Took these yesterday. First time he's ever been on any kind of a lead, let alone a prong collar and he was awesome! We will most likely be selling him, but if we still have him and his pigment comes in enough by show day we'll take him to the show with us.

He'll be 10 weeks on Fri, and around 55lbs.+













































He was a muddy mess lol! He was playing with a yearling on a log, and she knocked him off into the mud! Thankfully he was clean enough by evening I told my son to try and set him up so we can get some pics. I really like this guy.

He's a real sweetheart too, afterward, my son turned him loose and he came over, interrupting my daughter who was training a doe kid. He came between them demanding her full attention. I really wanted his pigment to come in, take him to the show, and get a judges opinion on him! But not if he'll get knocked down for pigment...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very nice.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I've been debating on keeping him and seeing if he gets his pigment in time to show this summer, or selling him. He's such a nice kid with a great personality. Darn pigment rules. I can understand most of the rules (okay, not the crazy teat structure chart). But I still can't agree with the pigment on kids under 6 months old. 
I was trying to look for pics of past babies, and did see a picture of his dam who looked the same way at about the same age. She's fully pigmented, and was fully pigmented by June (born late Jan).


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would hold him longer and give him that chance.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thought I'd update about the buckling. Slow changes.

4-22 kind of hard to see because of the shadow

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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










4-25 today









Here is a % doe that we took to a show over the weekend. 1st judge didn't say anything, and the 2nd judge said she doesn't have quite enough pigment yet, but thankfully didn't knock her down or DQ her for it (she won her class in both shows!) she was born 1/24










I saw some yearling does at the show from big breeders, and they had very, very light - barely noticeable pigment. I didn't want to offend them in any way, but wanted so badly to ask about the pigment. The one seriously... she looked pink to me like the one in the first pic.

Oh, and don't mind the mud on that last one, the babies look like they all have war paint on, it's awful lol


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I thought I would update this thread while I have a chance and TGS is working for me again!

The buck never has gotten his full pigment which is a real shame because he is really nice! He's been shown in the area county fairs and has either won his classes or come in a game 2nd. He was Grand Champion at our state Jr. Breeding show. Heartbreaking though because we'd love to take him to our state fair ABGA show, but I'm guessing around 30% pigment?
His sisters have black pigment!

Sorry the quality stinks, I took this with my phone about 10 days ago.









One of his sisters last night:









Not the best pic as I just haven't had time to work on pics from the shows, and haven't gotten many either since I was holding goats or grabbing goats for the kids (it's been crazy!). But here's one of my nephew and the buck from a month ago:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is a shame for sure. 

It to me looks like less than a 1/4 pigment.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> That is a shame for sure.
> 
> It to me looks like less than a 1/4 pigment.


I agree  It's really heartbreaking because he's such a nice young buck. Every goat in his family has the black pigment, so strange that he doesn't have it. I even tried things to 'enhance' a tan, all it did was turn the hair around his tailhead yellow lol. I will say the boys tend to spend a lot of time in the barn, especially with the heat and their pen has a lot of shade, so that doesn't help. It's okay though, I think he'll make someone a nice breeding buck and probably with more time outside in full sun maybe as he ages he'll fill in.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is strange for sure he doesn't have much, when his Sire and Dam did.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Yep. I will say that his sire's pigment is lighter this year compared to last summer. But they spend a lot of time hanging out in the barn or in the shade. 
He'll still be a nice breeding buck for someone. Thankfully county fair judges don't knock them down for pigment. I think he'll get more, just slowly. He just turned 5 months old and is just under 120lbs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I hope he gets more in too.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Here are some quick pics of him from earlier this evening after I washed and clipped him. Love this boy. His hair is soooo soft and he's so easy to clip (a huge bonus lol). 
I couldn't get his attention to turn his head forward, he was fascinated by something lol.


















Really Mom?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He looks really nice. 

I know the feeling of when you have a good body shot and they have their head turned in a stupid position or they make a funny face, LOL.  Or when their head is perfect, but a leg is positioned all wrong.


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## MelissaDodd (Mar 2, 2018)

If you were closer to SW Missouri I would love to have him as my buck...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

MelissaDodd said:


> If you were closer to SW Missouri I would love to have him as my buck...


Thanks  We love him, and he is such a sweetheart. I adore him. He's sold pending payment/pickup, but if anything changes and your interested... 

I'm noticing more tiny pigment spots popping up on his tail today. It's still crazy how his family has great pigment, his sisters have black pigment, but he doesn't.


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