# Rectal Prolapse **caused by urinary calculi**



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi guys wondering if anyone has had much experience of rectal prolapse.

Yesterday i noticed Pablo my alpaca (not my goat but guess it will be pretty similar to a goat with the same thing) had a red lump hanging out of his back end, not huge just a bit smaller than a golf ball, i put it back in a few times but it kept coming out again so got the vet out who has purse stitched it back in, no idea why its happened though as he didnt appear to be constipated and had passed some muck when i brought him in prior to the vet coming.

My problem now is that he is straining all the time as though he is constipated, he is managing to pass very small amounts of muck after i thought it might be best to syringe a little warm water up his back end. Do you think he might be straining all the time because he is still very swollen so feels like he needs to pass something? 

I havent tried to ring the vet yet that saw to him yesterday as typical that its the weekend but obviously if he starts to look worse i will have to get someone out again.

He is picking at food and apart from straining he doesnt look colicy or anything, i also syringed some treacly water in to him mouth as wasnt sure how much he is drinking and thought the treacle may have a laxative affect? i am wondering whether i should keep putting small amounts of water up his back end to try and help him or is there anything else that might be better

Thanks in advance for any help


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

I'm so sorry for your situation. I recently purchased my "boys" and now I have a little female (bottle baby) that is just precious...

Have you been to a website called http://www.alpacanation.com? It has a forum similar to this one. You sign on as a member and then you can ask questions there. There is a specific post on this subject, let me see if I can get the link for you.http://www.alpacanation.com/forum/topic ... IC_ID=4948 I hope this works for you. I'm afraid it's not good news. Please, keep us informed as to how this works out for you. :hug: ray:


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Thanks for your reply Di and taking the time to look up and find links for me.

I did actually post on there yesterday but didnt get many replies :shrug: thought maybe it wasnt a very common thing in alpacas hence asking on here in case goats were more prone to it in the hope that someone may have experienced the same thing.

Since my original post he has passed a bit more muck, not a lot but at least some is getting through, also gave him his bucket feed and he was keen to eat it so he cant be feeling too bad in himself.

I was devastated yesterday when read that thread you posted the link to, doesnt look good reading that, the vet was hopeful though with catching the prolapse straight away but saying that he has never treated an alpaca for it before just sheep.

Heres a pic of Pablo then you can put a face to the name  









Hes my baby, i bred him, the one and only one i have bred, hes 6 now and such a little angel never any trouble.

Thanks again xx

Will keep updating and if anyone else has any advise i will be very grateful xx


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Oh isn't he sweet looking! Is he very tame? Mine are...they were all bottle babies for one reason or another. So, I'm very afraid of the "berserk male syndrome" thing. But, if the boys get to pushy we will have them gelded before it becomes a problem.

Are alpaca sales as slow there as they are here? The prices are really down, and sales are so slow alot of folks aren't even breeding anymore. But, I just really like the animals. Such a peaceful animal. We love them.

I really hope your boy improves, I wish I could be more help, but, I've had mine about a year now, so I know nothing!


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

I would love my three to be more friendly, Pablo is the friendliest with him being born here where as the other two werent, i can stroke him and hug him no problem when hes in but can only touch his nose when hes in the field. All three will eat from your hand when out though.

Bet yours are gorgeous, must be great them being so tame, hope you dont get the beserk problem, i got my lot castrated when they were around 3 and 4 years as they kept jumping on each other so i got sick of it ha and got them all done, if i had more boys i would get them done too as they are much more settled when 'done' i think.

I am not up to date with whats going on in this country with selling them but seems like everything else everyone starts breeding them and over population causes prices to plummet bit like the ponies in this country at the moment.
I started breeding them but decided it wasnt for me ( too hard to part with the gorgeous little things) so i sold my two females to a good home and just kept my three boys as pets. like you i just love them and like having them around.

Thanks for your support Di and if ever you need advise on your alpacas although i am no expert if i can help i will, just give me a shout xx

Oh and a 10pm check there was more poop, just a little but pleased to see hes managing to pass some, he was lying down and looked content enough but got up and was straining again, fingers crossed in morning some of the swelling inside goes down and he starts feeling better.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

I went out and hugged by boys after I read your post. :sigh: I hope he gets better soon. Did your vet suggest an anti-inflamatory like Banamine? I would think that might help. I know you can give them mineral oil to "lube" things up a little.

I was so freaked out when I first got my boys...they were so small and it started raining...they just wanted to stand out in the rain! I made them go in the barn for a couple of days, they hated it! So, after talking to the breeder I just "lightened up a bit" and let them out.

I have my little female in the "nursery" with this years doelings I kept, and two Alpine girls I just got this summer. I think she thinks she's a goat!

Well, keep me informed of how this goes, I'm praying for him. ray:


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Your little ones sound so adorable and to be able to go out and hug them thats so great 

I think the vet gave him an anti-inflamatory but will ask tomorrow, Monday at last so should get hold of the right vet ok. Hes still straining but there is small amounts coming out, i let him out today on a grassy paddock as thought that may get things moving a bit better, i think it is just because he is swollen hes uncomfortable, apart from the straining he doesnt seem to be in any pain.

I wont let my boys out in a paddock unless it has a shelter in it lol, we get a lot of rain and they like to get inside when its wet, think i have made them soft. Pablo use to wear a little wax dog jacket when he was small as i was terrified he would catch a chill.

Bet thats lovely to see, your little girl and the goats, they all sound so cute


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

elaine....I have no experience with alpaca's but I do have to say that your guy is really cute! I hope that he can recover from this too.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

^ Ditto, I hope he gets well soon, and just wanted to say that he is really adorable!!


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Oh my! He is so cute! I know nothing about alpacas but I had a raccoon baby prolapse (like 3-4 inches) this year and the vet did the purse-string sutures as well. He strained off and on until the sutures came out. I think it was the sensation of the sutures that caused him to strain. Like he felt that there was something he needed to pass. Once the sutures were out he was fine with no relapse. The sutures were only in for 2-3 days if I remember correctly. I hope your guys is feeling better soon.


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Aww thanks guys and thanks Winky for sharing you experience, i would love a raccoon!! so pleased he made such a good recovery 

Well this morning there was no muck to be seen and Pablo looked even more uncomfortable, he was occasionally laying flat out on his side which i never see him doing and when he was up he was still constantly straining, grinding his teeth even and wouldnt even touch any breakfast, not good, i rang the vet at 9.30 but he couldnt come till 3pm!! so you can imagine how worried all day i was. While waiting i googled a few more things about straining and saw quite a few things that pointed towards not peeing, i had seen some pee but not a lot but thought that was just because he wasnt drinking much.

When the vet arrived i mentioned this too him and it had crossed his mind too as whether he was passing much urine. After investigating the back end again he said he could see no reason why he would be straining so much (and he managed to remove a fair bit of muck that had gathered) as his muck was soft and there was plenty room for the muck to pass out. So he investigated the other 'bit' nothing to be seen obviously but he was tender round his abdomen, so decided to give him steroids to take any inflammation down and some diazopan (sp?) to relax everything as we are wondering if he has kidney stones and this is the problem. Since then Pablo does seem much better and can pass his muck ok and he actually had a small pee :leap: hes stopped laying on his side and doesnt seem to be straining quite as much and is picking at his haylage.

I am ringing the vet at 8.30 in morning and we are going to decide what the next step is, we are praying he can pass any obstruction, if there is no improvement we are going to take him to another vet practice about 40 miles away which are more up on alpaca problems, nothing easy though cos if he goes his two friends will have to go as he will pine without them, they wont be able to share the same stable as him though because they pick on him when hes in :roll: so i keep them so they can see each other through a grill in an adjoining stable.

My next question is going to be has anyone had any trouble with their male goats and urinary caluli!! Heard about something marvelous called Chanca Piedra (suppose to break up any stones) so will be trying to get some of that tomorrow, from where i dont know hoping a local health shop will have some.

Thanks again for your replies and support xxx


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Hi again, I'm so glad you are able to get him adequate vet care. I am really hoping he gets better for you. It sounds like you really care alot for this boy and I'm sure he knows you are trying to help him.


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Rectal Prolapse*

Hi Di,

this morning Pablo wasnt too bad :leap: there was a puddle on the floor and a bit of muck so rang vet and we have decided as he is managing to pee a little to keep him on a mild dose of ACP (Ace you maybe refer to it as) for a few days, this is keeping him relaxed enough to be able to pee it seems and more comfortable. He doesnt look in discomfort like yesterday and he is picking at his haylage etc. Theres been four little puddles altogether today so very happy, hes still standing in a straining position but not all the time like yesterday. I have also ordered some Chanca Piedra (herbal product to help dissolve kidney stones) not sure how good it is but no harm in trying i thought, hoping it will be here tomorrow.

so just praying he is on the road to recovery, not looking forward to when the prolapse stitch will have to come out though but thats a week away so will try forget about it for now.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

ray: I am praying that your little bottle baby makes a full and happy recovery. I know how those little bottle babies can steal your heart!! I too have one and I remember one day this summer-he was sick w/diarreah--my day was miserable I worried about him so! 

I will check your posts to be sure that he does well! He is SUPER cute!


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Elaine I just looked at your website--what gorgeous horses! Wow they appear to have such spirit! Breathaking just in the pictures I can't imagine what they would be like in person!


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks BB BOers, glad you liked the ponies too  

This morning Pablo was lying on his side not looking well at all, it was awful, he was obviously in pain. I looked under his tail and his backend was sticking right out and red hot! he was straining but nothing was coming out. I thought if i gently squeezed round it something might come out, i wasnt quite expecting how much would come out though! a couple of hard lumps came out followed by diarrhea, for half an hour i was there and it was still coming out :shocked: 

i was freezing and wrecked by this time so thought i would go back in the house for half an hour and leave him to rest while i decided what to do. went back out after the half an hour and he was up eating haylage looking much better! he even ate a carrot like he was starving! there was also more diarrhea with harder lumps in it that he passed himself since i had been in the house. he must have felt so relieved after passing so much muck!

i managed to get in touch with my vet a few hours later and told him all about what had gone on, he still thinks the problem is the bladder though, (Pabs is still peeing a little) so we are going to see what hes like tomorrow and go from there... again. he has seemed not too bad all day though since this mornings episode and still managing to pass muck ok which isnt as watery now (oh and his faecal test came back negative so pleased about that) i am just hoping now its been a blockage thats freed itself but the vet doesnt think so but you never know.

more tomorrow no doubt, thanks to anyone that listens lol xx


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh, I hope and pray he gets better! :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad he has improved some. Hope he keeps getting better.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Sorry, have company, and working wed & thurs. 

Wow, you've been through alot with this boy. Are you giving him anything for the urinary caculi? I know that can be a problem with male goats (wethers). I was wondering if alpacas have any issues with it? I put ACV in the water here. But, mostly for the goats. I only had one case of it, with a buckling, had the vet "do her thing" but, couldn't fix it and lost him.

Hang in there! Still ray: for him. :hug:


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks all for your kind words it means a lot xx :hug: 

I was really worried last night, he hadnt peed since lunch time, i had prepared myself for no pee in morning he was going straight to the vet place that knows more about alpacas.
Anyhow this morning there is a pee  and at 10am theres another  and 1pm theres another!!  also there was normal looking poos. Hes also not straining all the time either and looks quite happy.
Yes Di we have been treating him for the urinary problem, its quite serious in alpacas as there tubes are so small its very easy for crystals to get stuck, he was injected with steroids to take down any inflammation and we have kept him on Ace in the hope that if hes relaxed he will pee easier and pass any crystals, i upped his Ace dosage yesterday when noticed he hadnt peed much and keeping him on a slightly higher dose now, maybe thats why hes managed to pee more? hope so, i am so pleased his muck is back to normal today too.
Hes happily munching away on his haylage so i am really hoping hes getting over all this now ray: 
Sorry you lost you little boy Di, how sad, i think as a precaution i will be giving my alpaca boys and my two goats something now as a preventative measure thanks for that xx
Hopefully tomorrow will be posting with more good news, feel so much better today now hes looking perkier, i think hes sick of being hugged lol


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Thank you Lord! I'm so happy he's improving! 

What kind of hay are you feeding your alpacas? I think most folks feed some sort of grass hay, I started to feed the grass hay and they were a little thin, so my vet said I could feed some alfalfa. Which is what my does get and fairly easy to find here. I wish our farmers would cut their grass hay earlier, it's so coarse, I'm sure full sized horses will eat it, but I have "miniature" animals and they are very picky. Hopefully, my current "hay guy" will cut some earlier for me next year. Anyway, they also are on pasture, so they get some grass there. I'm a little worried about the boys getting alfalfa, though. But, of course now they are spoiled!


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Di, i feed a meadow hay so its a mixture of grasses, we usually feed it as haylage, do you have haylage where its baled while still damp and wrapped in black plastic? it usually has more feed value than hay and dust free, the animals all love it. Hope you get sorted with some early cut hay, nothing wrong with spoiling our little friends lol.

Pablo is now on the chanca piedra herbal treatment for any bladder trouble, he is actually peeing more now so think it is doing something, it is in tincture form so easy to administer in to the mouth with a small syringe. He is still straining though which i cant understand because if he can pee ok now why strain, he can pass muck but its a bit softer than normal and seems to stick on his backend so maybe this is whats annoying him and making him squat a lot, either that or the prolapse stitch is bothering him a little still. But hes ok in himself and is eating, i have took him off the Ace now since starting to give him the herbal treatment as wasnt sure if the two combined would harm him.

I think the three of them are sick of being inside now and long to be in the field but i darent let them out as cant keep an eye on the pee and poo situation :roll: weather been terrible lately as well, wet and cold so couldnt have the poor little man going out in that, the other two keep looking at me as though can we go out today, erm no sorry if Pabs is in you two are in lol. They usually hang round with my two pet sheep who are outside as didnt fetch them in and they keep coming to the gate to see where the boys are as well, they are ever so funny


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm happy to hear he's doing better. And that you have sheep! When I tell Alpaca people that my Alpacas hang out with my goats they "snort" a little...they all consider goats as "little worm factories", lol. And they are probably right! lol.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I am so glad to hear that Pablo is doing better, I have been worried for you and him-but finally it sounds like he is on the road to recovery!

You have inspired me to order ammonium chloride -which is the remedy for goats if they get UC. I would just be beside myself it they developed this and I could do nothing to help them---see mine ALWAYS get ill on sat. morning or night that way I have to fret all weekend before I can get them to a vet :laugh: 

re the hayladge you mentioned: I have seen you use that term earlier in your post and wondered about that! It sounds very cool!! 98% of the hay in the us is baled in squares or rounds. Recently I have been using a product called chaffhay. I think it is what you are describing as the hayladge. I really like it, I most likely wont ever use it as my "main source" of hay but I will definately always feed it, now that I have found it. What I got is an alfalfa mixture and my goats go bonkers for it!


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks guys, little worm factories thats funny lol, my boys love the sheep, especially with them being girls  

Yeah BB Boers good to have things on stock just in case, and why oh why do they always ail on a weekend :roll: the haylage sort of ferments because its wrapped in plastic, strange how it works but all the animals seem to prefer it to hay.

Pabs has been not so good again, hes been up and down, i have been up and down... :hair: Vet is coming back out tomorrow. Although the peeing is good its still this straining business and not being able to pass muck, he gets a build up so ends up really uncomfortable and his backend starts sticking out and looks like it will burst!! the only way he can get relieved is if i start squeezing round the 'exit' then tonnes comes out!! i have been there half an hour a few times theres been so much :shocked: afterwards he is as bright as anything and gets back to eating, he can pass small amounts of muck on his own but for some reason it keeps building up.

The vet is coming to hopefully take out the stitch thats been holding the prolapse in, but i am scared that he will prolapse again, but it could be the stitch thats bothering him :scratch: so a bit of a dilemma, and so great we are approaching christmas day and closed veterinary surgeries :hair: :GAAH: 

On a good note i got a urine sample earlier so at least that will be able to get tested to see whats going on, i didnt manage to catch it, he peed on the floor and it landed in a bit of a dip in the concrete so i managed to syringe it up and put it in a jar, good or what lol, oh while out there in pj's bath robe and wellies, bet that looked funny  

More tomorrow when vets been, hopefully good news that stitch is out and he is pooping normally, thanks again :hug:


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

:stars: :leap: :clap: as you can tell i am happy :leap: :leap: :leap:

Vet been and said Pabs was doing really well, he felt his stomach and could feel he was relaxed and not in pain like he had been in the earlier visits, he was really pleased he was peeing so much (told him about the chanca peidra but dont think he thought that was why he had recovered so well :roll: but i think it was lol).

I had been in tears this morning though because his backend looked so sore and swollen and there was something oozing out of where the stitch holes where, i thought he was prolapsing really bad and was dreading what vet would say.

The vet said it was nothing though just a little bit infected and it was pus that was in the stitch holes not his bowels  lol. So out the stitch came, hes had painkillers and anti-anflams. Since all that a couple of hours ago he is pooping normally and they are beans not clumps, i cant believe it, must have been the stitch bothering him all along.

Thanks guys for listening to me its meant a lot :hug: will of course be updating with his progress, hopefully he is almost back to normal now and can get back in his routine and get back outside through the day....... and maybe i can get some Christmas shopping done!! xxx


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

:leap: :stars: YAY!!!!! I'm so glad he's doing better!! And that last pic is absolutely ADORABLE!!!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

:stars: :wahoo: :dance: Oh I'm so happy for you and your boy! Yeah! Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi guys and thanks :leap: 

Pabs is still ok, i did put him back out on the field for a couple of days, i could see he was at the toilet spot rather a lot so was worried, brought him back in this afternoon but hes fine, everything is normal thankfully, i am just so paranoid i may miss something, so i am going to bring them in every couple of days for the night then i can be sure hes ok.

Hes had his fringe cut today too so he can see where hes going, he rather liked getting it done, just stood there while i put a few layers in it haha.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I am so glad your boy has recovered so well! You took such great care of him!! he is very cute-lol I love this picture w/the snow on his nose :laugh: 

Merry Christmas to you and I pray he continues to improve every day :snowcool: :snowbounce:


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## blue bell (Feb 7, 2012)

I have a 14 year old female goat. She is a free range pet hername is blue bell. She is not peeing. We had her at the vets twice and drained her bladder. She was given a shot of antibiotoc Friday Saturday and Sunday. She has been on ammonium chloride since Sunday. We also left the catheter in since Saturday until today. She is still not peeing. Everything I read has to do with males. We are very concerned for blue bell and getting nervous that we won't be able to help her. Does anyone have any suggestions for us to help our family member.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

that really sounds like a vet issue. did the vet say to leave the catheter in? is she drinking? are you sure she is not peeing? not peeing for days is not good! :hug:


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