# Ammonium Chloride?



## BareCreekFarm (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello,
Last fall our breeding buck got Urinary Calculi and he also got Coccidia at the same time. During this time he was out on pasture, and was not getting any grain :shrug: . We had the vet (not a goat vet) come out to see him and they said LA200 once a day, every other day for a week and that will make him better. Well needless to say he is better now, but he has not bounced back like I want him to. What could of caused him to develop Urinary Calculi when he was out on pasture? And had anyone ever used Ammonium Chloride to prevent UC? Should I feed it free choice, mixed in his grain, or?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Probably his calcium to phosphorus ratio was off. Calcium should be a minimum of 2 to 1 to phosphorus and actually better to be a little higher. Pasture probably doesn't do that. Giving him alfalfa hay would help. It probably wouldn't hurt to give him ammonium chloride once a week or so too.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

I just recently made a thread about AC. I think that the goats don't like the taste of it so it can be mixed into the minerals.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I assume that he was also treated for the cocci?
LA-200 will not treat the cocci and I am not sure what if anything it did for the UC. If he had a bladder infection or something then it would have treated that. 
Many causes of UC one is the feed ratio; another genetics and yet another water consumption. 
Fresh new clean water al the time encourages water consumption and reduces the risk of UC. 
AC helps acidify the urine and is beneficial that way. I have yet to use so not sure amounts or ways to dose.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I have some ammonium chloride on hand for an emergency situation and I believe you drench them w/1 teaspoon mixed into some water once a day for a week? Or until they are urinating better. 

Was your buck getting baking soda? 

I just read yesterday (and I think I knew this but forgot about it) but you are not supposed to give bucks or wethers baking soda? Baking soda is a sodium bicarbonate and it acts as the reverse of the ammonium chloride. 
I have been giving my bucks and wether some baking soda--does that hurt?
I wont do it anymore I suppose, but what can you give them if they are bloated? Just a probiotic?


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

infection can also cause or at least increase risk of UC... the epithelial cells of the bladder wall shed and are available to form a nidus, what minerals crystallize around (analogous to the bit of gravel in the center of a pearl). Was La-200 the only treatment? I agree with logan that I can't think what that could have done about UC.... you could check to see if your pasture is high in oxalates... or if it has a lot of clover I think I read that it can affect the hormone balance.. or something along those lines... But a lot of it is genetics..... so it may be that he is just more prone to UC... anyway none of that was about AC :doh: but this link might be useful
http://kinne.net/urincalc.htm

Burns branch.... the idea about not giving baking soda and AC is that the baking soda is the raise the pH of the stomach while the AC is supposed to lower it... so they will probably neutralize each other... i think you could still give it in an emergency... or mineral oil.... I'd have though it depended on the type of bloat... but I need to look into it...
M.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

All my goats have free choice baking soda. Being a base it would have a reverse effect of AC on a goats system. I personally don't see my goats use the baking soda often but like to have it there for them should they need it to help their tummies or help bloat. Never had a issue with my bucks of my wether when we had him. Now if I had one that ate lots of baking soda constantly keeping his system more akaline then I might take it away from him.


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## BareCreekFarm (Nov 20, 2011)

He was on a pasture with a lot of clover, so that may have caused it. Yes, he was also treated for the Cocci with a Corid drench, and given Red Cell to build his blood back up. Peggy, I cannot belive I didn't see you post on Ammonium Chloride :doh:! They have access to fresh clean water at all time. I have never given my goats any baking soda (I had actually never even heard of doing so until recently!) Thank you for the link natural goats, that is very informative :thumbup: . 
Thanks


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2012)

My feeders get 35grams per 15lb or 10lb.per ton of DDG, They also get sodium bicarb 1/4lb. in 30lbs of DDG.
I have never had a problem with UC since I switched from corn, and don't want them too. Right now the feeders are getting 1lb ph X 2 pd 
AC is un-digestible so no feed value is given or taken away.
At 40 dollars for 50lb it is good insurance esp if you are feeding a high grain diet.
I'm not sure about the drench, since I am more on the prevention of it VS emergency side of it.
As always my buck runs with the Does year round so he is on a 3/4lb pd DDG diet and gets no AC that ration also includes Sodium Bicarb. All animals are fed free choice Cattle Grazer loose mineral with CTC by Purina.
I have never had UC in a buck only withers.
I use the Bicarb as a buffer, reduces acid levels and prevents acidosis as well as preventing bloating, which sometimes my alfalfa hay causes. I seldom feed it free choice in the winter.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

thanks it is good to know that it is ok to use a little baking soda and that it wont' hurt them :greengrin:


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