# Inducing



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok so anyone that has induced, can you please tell me how you do it <when do you give the shots>, your pros/cons, and any helpful information, I would greatly appreciate it.

Our doe who is due in 9 days that is showing signs of Pregnancy Toxemia and/or Hypocalcemia isn't getting worse, but isn't getting better as she can barely stand up, and can't stay up for more than a few minutes at a time. 
So, I'm going to get the stuff tomorrow so we can induce.

I've had people tell me to give both shots at the same time. I've had some others & vet office tell me to give them separate - dex first so the babies lungs can mature, and can slowly start the labor process, then give the lute 1-2 days later.

I admit, I am a nervous, tired wreck right now. I don't like to mess with nature, but I feel if we let her go naturally, it won't end well.
My biggest worry is that the kids won't be positioned right, and have to be pulled, or will have to have a C-section to get them out.

Thanks for any help!


----------



## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

I would give the dex first and if you can wait 48 hours it will increase the chance that the baby(s) will make it too.


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

We induced a very sick doe to kid 11 days early last year... and she did fine. I think we only gave Lute? We probably gave dex. too but I don't remember. It took her over 24 hours to pass the afterbirth... so we ended up giving Oxytocin. She passed it soon after that. She had triplets and all 3 were alive and well at birth. We lost one the next day to FKS. 

We have induced does several times in the past... and we usually get babies 30 hours after the in injection of lute. 

If you do decide to give dex. I'm not sure when the right time to give it is. I think I've heard that you give it the same time as the lute... :shrug:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I had to induce a few ketotic does way back when, and we did dex first (1cc per 20lbs), then lute 6-12hrs later, OR we did them both at the same time. When they babies were born they got a 1/2cc of dex orally as well. 
You will most likely have to check her for dilation every few hours and pull the babies, because sometimes when they are down and barely moving for a while, the uterus loses it's tone, so it doesn't contract so well, stalling labor and further exhausting the doe.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for the input I appreciate it. She can barely get up now and I'm not sure I will be able to get her up much today, she's very weak on her rear end. Biggest issue is getting her to her feet, I am worried she's going to hurt herself or her babies.

Someone had suggested to me on FB, that it usually happens within 30 something hours after giving the lute? So I'm kind of thinking if we give the dex early today, then we can give the lute late tonight, and 'maybe' get a day time kidding? I know nothing is guaranteed, but I'd really like for this to happen if at all possible during the day/time my husband is home in case I need help. We do have a friend <our kids show together>, and they are willing to come help, lots of experience kidding and getting kids out.

I do have access to Oxytocin in the event she doesn't expel placenta.

I am so stressed over this, have had a headache since about 7pm <3:30am>. I got a little sleep, but not much. So worried about this doe, seems something always happens to the one we really anticipate each year <lost twins from a doe last year, went into labor 5 days early/tangled kids, it was a mess>.

Thankfully, her rear end is very loose, ligs basically gone. Only thing is, her udder is big but very soft. So, we'll also make sure we have Oxytocin on hand in the event we need to get her to drop her milk. If anything at all, we at least need her to give us colostrum for these babies.


----------



## NWIndianaBoers (Mar 18, 2013)

As someone who induces often because of my work schedule and the fact that i don't trust nature to handle things all on its own i would suggest giving the shots 11pm on Thursday night for Saturday babies. Generally kids are 32-40 hrs after the shots so should be 7am-3pm. Anything before 30hrs means the doe was naturally kidding then anyways and shots didn't matter. This is giving both shots at the same time and at a dose of 2-3 lute and 5-8dex depending on duce of doe.i helped out a local 4her this year that had 2 does goes ketotic on them and i allowed them to bring them to me. Both took longer when induced. One was about 42hrs and the other was the longest I've ever had one take and that was 54hrs. I had checked her twice to confirm she wasn't open and just unable to pay but she wasn't. After i saw the amber i checked both and assisted both since they were down on energy and its easier to get kids coming right before the have a body part sticking out and that doe pushing against you trying to get it back in. I'm not sure if the ketosis pushed back the kids compared to normal inducing or what just sharing my experience so you don't panic if they don't come right away.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for that info! Ok, I'd like to give her the shot tonight, if at all possible Friday babies would be good - weather will be cold  At this point, in case things turn bad, I really don't want my kids here. Thankfully I am home all of the time. If she does happen to take longer, then maybe it would be on Saturday, and if we need a vet's assistance, and have to take her in for some reason, then the clinic might possibly be open vs. being closed on Sunday. 
Sound like a good plan?

I am late giving her morning drench, I didn't sleep worth a darn in between checks, and am dragging my feet a bit. Hoping this coffee kicks in! 
I keep trying to remind myself not to over think things, and stop worrying about everything that can go wrong, focus and stay a bit positive. But it's so hard not to worry about her.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Sending good thoughts your way for your doe, unborn kids and YOU! Take 
care of yourself, too!


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Sounds like a great plan. :wink: Praying all goes well! :hug: :hug: Keep us posted as you're able.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think that is a good plan. I hope everything works out.


----------



## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

take care of yourself so you can help her. Good thoughts to you for a easy kidding


----------



## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

So so sorry that things are going the way they are and you're having to make these hard decisions. I do think inducing is probably the best thing for her since it seems she's getting weaker.  Poor girl! And poor you!!  Hugs and thoughts and prayers for you all! :hug:


----------



## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I hope everything goes ok. You can do this.....


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thank You all so much for your support ♥♥♥
No changes, she's still having a difficult time getting up and moving around. 

I went to the vets, got the shots, and just finished giving her the dex. I figure we'd give it to her now, see if it makes her feel any better at all? Then give her the lute this evening. 
I'm at the point, I don't care what day/time she kids, as long as everything ends well. 
So far babies still seem to be active. I saw her belly bouncing/shaking a little while ago. 

The drench is making her have loose stool again, but at this point, she has to have it...

I'm praying our feed store gets our grain in soon, going to call them after I drench her again, I want to get the CMPK so I can get her started on that.


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Positive thinking , things are going to go just fine :hug::hug::hug:


----------



## sweetlifegoats (Jan 24, 2014)

I had to induce adore two weeks ago due to ketsosis and I was a never wreck. We did Dex then 24 hour late luteyse. I had been told 24 to 30 hours but she had hers 16 hours later. She was completely down but managed to have three healthy babies and has recovered completely. So I'll hope for the same outcome for. Goat mommas can rally when they need to.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Well I wish I could come with good news but sadly, we lost Peanut ♥
I'm still in shock, and it's slowly setting in, I admit I am a mess right now, but I am more worried about my son, he is so heartbroken, please say a prayer for him ♥

She was just too sick, I was treating her around the clock, but we caught it too late. She was shivering off/on today, and I thought she was cold, so I got her warmed up --- I didn't know or realize she was actually going into shock. I've never ever dealt with an animal this sick before. This may be a bit disturbing to read...

My husband gave her the lute about 5pm. I got home from town, went out to feed, and she was fine, she was actually eating, digging through her hay, drinking water, nibbling feed - I even have some videos, but I plan on deleting them, I can't bare to watch them. Then she'd stretch a little, like mom's do late in pregnancy when , are uncomfortable. 
I had my kids go ahead and go inside as I like to stay and 'observe,' everyone make sure all is good & quiet <no coughing, etc.>.
She was eating, talking to me, etc.
I was actually about ready to go in, and noticed she had started shivering and looked just the slightest bit uncomfortable. So I covered her up with her blanket. I stepped out of the stall to watch her, and suddenly she just let out a loud groan, turned her head all the way back and was just....gone! OMG!! I was so shocked I tried to shake her but she was gone.

I did the only thing I could even think of doing... I got the kids out. There were 3 <2 does, 1 buck> all limp. By the miracle of God, I worked on the two bigger ones <little one was gone>and got them breathing and awake. Brought them inside, and called friends for help. I knew chances were slim, but had to try...
The big doe kid lived for about 40 minutes and the buck lived for probably over an hour.
Lungs were just too premature. They were both panting, and crying and alert for a while.

My kids did an awesome job helping with the babies, they are troopers. I know this has affected them deeply, and I hope they can heal.

Thank God for good goat friends ♥♥♥ If we ever have a tiny bit of an issue I will seek assistance right away. 
I am kicking myself because.... Peanut was lame on a front foot for a while. BUT, I had been treating her for hoof rot in that foot. If it hadn't been for that, I would definitely have thought something was wrong with her.

We wrapped her in plastic, and hoping she won't draw any predators to the barn tonight. We don't normally have issues with anything, and temps will be below freezing. In the morning when my husband gets home we will bury her.

Of course now is the time I start with the 'what if's' and kicking myself around, I feel like I am a pretty lousy owner tonight  . My husband said we killed her by inducing her. But I really think it was going to happen, she was just too sick. She was showing signs of shock before she ever got the shots. Again, I just didn't know what shock was, never dealt with anything like this in the 5 years we've had goats.
I'm honestly afraid to sleep, even though I need to, I don't want to relive that ever again....

We have one more doe left to kid, and I am just ready for it to be over. I may need anxiety pills I feel so terrified  She is due 2 weeks from today. I keep trying to tell myself to hang in there, but honestly I don't know where to start healing...I keep thinking about my son 

Thanks for all of the help and support. I tried to listen to advice, and make do with everything I could get. I now know that pain of loss from pregnancy toxemia, and the horror so many people and their goats go through.


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm so sorry you lost her and her babies. Don't blame yourself. Those babies had to come out. I think inducing was the right call. Sometimes everything we do just isn't enough.


----------



## SerenitySquare (Jun 28, 2014)

I am so sorry and will say prayers for your whole family.
Thank you for sharing this with us I know it must have been hard for you.
You did an amazing job, sometimes no matter what we do we just cannot save them. I was a vet tech for many years and was always surprised how fast an animal could go inspite of all that was done for it.
Please shae with your son how much all of us are saddened as well. Sometimes it helps to know others are sharing your loss as well.
Please take care of yourself.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much, I appreciate it ♥ I am exhausted, and need to sleep <almost 1am here>, but can't seem to bring myself to do it yet. I keep worrying about predators since we have 3 moms/6 babies who aren't locked inside the barn. It's just below freezing so hopefully that will help. I can't help but feel paranoid right now 

I hope my son will overcome this loss. I keep thinking about him and my heart hurts wishing I could take away the pain of his loss ♥

We have not had any luck with fullblood boers. Except for Peanut's mom, who is our hardest keeper, no matter how much weight she has during pregnancy, when her kids are 3 weeks old, she looks like a walking skeleton. Peanut was our easiest keeper, but she was overweight. We did try to get the weight off, but in the end I think having triplets, and being a bigger girl really worked against her 

Peanut's yearling sister is the one due in 2 weeks, I pray that everything goes smoothly with her. She is also my son's doe. I will honestly be a wreck until she kids.

On top of treating Peanut for the past week, I have just been under so much stress... The last week and a half have really been overwhelming.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh no. I am so so so sorry. SO SORRY. I came on here hoping to follow this thread.

I have no words for you other than cyber hugs and prayers.

Like others have said. Please take care of yourself.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If it helps at all, there's no way inducing her was related - as others have said it takes 30+ hours for the drugs to kick in, if you just gave them today they weren't even metabolized yet.


----------



## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I am so sorry. You did an AMAZING job for her! She was lucky to have you and you did WAY more than almost anyone would.

Sending healing prayers for your son. I know it's sad for him now, but this is part of farming. He suffers today, but he gets this whole world of farming that most kids don't experience. He will get through this, and so will you. And the fact that you don't believe that right now - shows how much love Peanut brought into your lives. The incredible love you gave to her. The love you felt from her.

It's hard to share hard life with kids, but they learned about trying despite bad odds. It's not love to shelter them from failure. Love is letting them experience failure, and helping them learn that you keep trying. It's a powerful experience for kids to learn that you try against the steepest odds for God's creatures, even though your heart will break, you know you gave it your all, and then you respect if God has a different plan.



HoosierShadow said:


> I even have some videos, but I plan on deleting them, I can't bare to watch them.


 Don't delete the videos for at least a month. I lost a girl, was heartbroken - one of my favorite pics is her "photobombing" a lovely shot of the whole herd, except she's peeing in the middle of the shot. You can see the stream of urine, for goodness sake! I love that picture. You don't know now what will hold your happy memories of Peanut. Give it time before you delete, please?

My baby is in goat heaven now, where grass is always lush and people always have time to scratch her head. I miss her. But she's free.

You did NOT kill Peanut by inducing. If she was that bad, inducing was the ONLY thing to do.

Don't worry about predators. Simply dying doesn't give off strong scents that attract predators. Your others will be fine for tonight.

Sleep. Your human kids and your goat babies need you to recharge. Your other girl is fine, right? It's scary to lose one and think about the others, but Peanut just had a different destiny.

I'm so sad for your loss. But it was a loss, not a failure. You gave her great care, and sometimes - heck, people die at Mayo hospitals. Sometimes the best care doesn't protect us from loss, it just lets us suffer loss with the knowledge we tried our best, and our babies went out knowing we loved them.

Big hug. Hug your babies and let them know that it's okay to hurt. It's okay to be mad and sad. It's okay to ask if you can learn something useful from what happened. But it's not okay to beat yourself up. You still have to get up and feed the other goats. You have to take care of yourself physically and emotionally so you can be good for the ones you have left.


----------



## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I am so sorry for what has happened. I would have done the same things you did. I've never seen a goat in shock or had a case of toxemia so I can't offer any insight there. I think you did a great job for her and the fact that a loss hurts so much shows you are a great goat owner. I will be thinking about you and your family all day.....:hug:


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry. You really did all you could.


----------



## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

After reading through both topics, you did what all of us would've, you tried. Unfortunately that is a part of life and farming that sinks. You did what you could and you tried to save the kids after she passed. You are an amazing person. Get some sleep and quit stressing, you did what you could. Your son will get over the heartbreak eventually, if will take time, but he will get through it.


----------



## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

This is a very difficult time - it hurts to lose one because we do care so much - they bring such joy into our lives - unfortunately death is also part of farming - you are teaching your children that life is worth fighting for- sending you warm wishes for a nice easy delivery with your next doe -


----------



## kramsay (Mar 7, 2013)

I am so sorry for you loss. You did everything you could do, and comforted her until the end, your an amazing goat mom! We will be praying for you and your son, well your whole family, and your herd. ray:ray::hug:


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Oh Candice I'm so so sorry. :tear: I am shocked at the news and heartbroken with you. I know how much it hurts to lose a doe like that. You did everything right and tried so hard. You absolutely did *not* kill her with those shots. 

Sending prayers for your son, and you, and your whole family. :hug: ray:


----------



## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I am sending prayers ... I am so sorry for your loss... I can't say anymore than what has been said but please no we are here for you.


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I just can't beleive it , I'm so very sorry , my heart is broken , completely broken along with yours. Dear God what a tragedy !
Candice , you did everything , went above and beyond to help her , please know that ! I don't think no one could've prevented what happened , she had more problems inside then what anyone could've know. You can only deal with whats in front of you honey , what is visible , and you did. Im crying as I'm typing this , its way beyond what i thought i would read this morning. Im so very sorry for your family. Peanut was cherished and loved and will never be forgotten. Many hugs to your kids , i pray they can come to terms with this quickly and the heartbreak eases with time . Candice , you did everything honey , :hug::hug::hug::hug:


----------



## Goatlover14 (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm so sorry for your loss. You did everything you could, and I know it's still hard. All you can do now and grieve and take care of yourself and the rest of your family, including your other goats. It wasn't your fault, and Peanut passed in loving hands. Sending prayers to you and your family!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh Candice...I am so sorry!! ((HUGS)) and prayers sending your way!!!


----------



## Tapestry (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm so sorry all of you are having to go through this. You fought for her for so long, you have to know you did everything you could. If only they could tell us what they are feeling, what makes them feel better, but they can't. You did your best, it just wasn't meant to be. I wish I could give everyone hugs or help in some way. We may not be there, but you aren't alone.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Sorry for your loss. :hug: Sending prayers.


----------



## Hannah21 (Jun 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry..her body wouldn't have been able to push the kids or either way at this point.Learning something like this makes you a better owner.


----------



## burtfarms (Apr 4, 2013)

thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. you did everything you could. I went through something similar in Oct. with our lilly. she knew you loved her and did the best for her. I know the what if's are a hard thing to sort through. it took me awhile. but I agree with others to be strong and not second guess. *Hugs* we are always here for you::sad:


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry Candice :hug: and one for your kids too :hug:


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh no!!  I just read all of this and I'm so dang sorry. You guys did NOT kill her!! She was well on her way of ending up there and you did the only thing you could I give her a chance. I've had and lost does with PT and they go down and pass so very fast it's mind blowing. 
I'm also proud of you for trying to save those kids. It's a hard thing to do when your heart just broke to a million pieces but you did it and you did it fast. I really can't tell you enough how sorry I am for all of your family especially your son


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone ♥ We're doing okay, trying to heal and attempting to try and get back to some kind of normal, whatever that may be. My son is doing better, he still has trouble going in the barn, and I admit, I do too  I haven't been in her stall since I cleaned it out and put down a thick layer of Lime. I need to sweep it out, but just can't bring myself to in there yet 
Today was a better day though, so hopefully things will start to look up. I'm still so worried a bit paranoid about her sister Luna who is due in 11 days. She's been doing okay, although I think she is depressed, she misses her big sister and it's heartbreaking ♥ 

As soon as I feel up to it, I will definitely make her a page on the Rainbow Bridge section. She meant so much to us ♥ She'll never be forgotten, our beautiful baby girl ♥


----------

