# 2 does gave birth at once and I missed it- help!



## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Twins with pineapple are up and nursing fine. Rende had triplets, two dead when I got to the barn and one is alive but doesn't seem very vigorous. Rende doesn't seem to be paying anyattention to him. He has tried to nurse with my help but can't seem to find the teat. Not sure if I should interfere besides warming him up or not. Gave him some nutridrench.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Get him warm and totally dry. Take his temp..if over 100* then get him on the teat, if not then you'll need to get his temp up , putting him in a bag with his head out, submerse him in a tub of very warm water til his temp comes up, then either give him colostrum with a syringe or allow him to get it from mom.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yep, agree with Liz. You can also give a mix of Molasses or karo, black strong coffee and Whiskey(or any other hard liquor) in three equal parts. Give a couple cc's to the kid to get his temp up. 

If you have a weak kid syringe you may need to tube feed him.


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Got a tiny bit of colustrum in him. He's plenty warm, just sleepy. Mom is not interested at all. Not sure if she thinks all the kids died or whether it's because the previous owner took her other kids and bottle raised them? She has passed the placentas and is just eating hay like nothing happened. I was able to milk her to get some colostrum just fine but she doesn't seem to want him to nurse. Any ideas? He's sleeping now but has been on his feet a couple of times.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

he needs a couple ounces of colostrum -- I would syringe feed or tube feed him if he cant suck yet. Offer him a bottle to at least get him going and then you can introduce him back to mom and keep encouraging her to let him nurse (You may need to tie her up)


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## jduwall (Aug 7, 2009)

Good luck. My prayers are with you


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Got 2 1/2 oz in him but had to bring him into the house to do it. Will try to reintroduce in a little bit but I'm not feeling hopeful. What are the chances she'll take him? She ignored him completely and didn't even whine when we brought him up to the house.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Probably not real likely but I always suggest it because some does will accept later on.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would tie mom up and hold her leg if she is kicking at him. The more you can get him to drink HER milk the better chance you have. We have had to bring in one baby at night and mom did not care (soulds like yours) but she did take the baby backm. Have you put baby up to momks face and try to get to clean him? Good luck


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Tried to hobble her and she wants none of it! She won't sniff or lick him at all, it's literally like he doesn't exist. I'm wondering if it's because she was on a farm that did CAE prevention and she's birthed twice before so she is used to them being taken away. She doesn't call back even when he is squealing. Will try again in a bit but am starting to resign myself to raising a bottle baby. Not a big deal really, just a little unexpected.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Tried to hobble her and she wants none of it! She won't sniff or lick him at all, it's literally like he doesn't exist. I'm wondering if it's because she was on a farm that did CAE prevention and she's birthed twice before so she is used to them being taken away. She doesn't call back even when he is squealing. Will try again in a bit but am starting to resign myself to raising a bottle baby. Not a big deal really, just a little unexpected.


 Keep doing it ...don't give up.....it will take a while...maybe even... 1 week or so....but ....she sounds like.... she doesn't know what to do.... because of the CAE prevention....and is acting like a first timer....

Also.... make sure ...they both are in a small type stall alone.... no other goats or kids...to interfere.... in them bonding..... this is crucial ...even if ...you have to work....with the momma and baby..... by tying her...every couple of hours or so.... ..eventually... you will get to the point ...that she may not have to have her leg tied..... reward.... if she does good...no rewards... if she doesn't cooperate.... she hasn't bonded with him at all.... that is why... she isn't calling out to him....

Also... I recommend giving a shot of Bo-se.....


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Well as of this am she still doesn't want anything to do with him. I've tried hobbling her and tying her up most of the night (obviously on and off, the poor thing) but she really is just not interested in him at all. And he showed no interest in nursing - he won't poke at her though he pokes at my neck and chin like a madman when I pick him up. (I do, of course, feed him when he does).

She won't clean him though she sniffed him once or twice. 

She has a bit of retained placenta (she had passed two, the third I didn't see until this morning) and I'm hopeful that she'll get it out before the end of the day (that will be the 24 hours) but I'm going to call the vet just in case. I'm thinking of starting her on Penicillin regardless, she just doesn't look quite right to me. She's eating, but not as piggishly as normal (normally she's a big pig) and drinking, pooping and peeing, but she just looks "off" to me and she's not bellowing like she normally would.

Baby is eating, but only about an ounce at a time, just more frequently. He's pooping okay and peeing okay, so I guess this is working for him (less so for me, but if it means he survives then I'm okay with it). He is INCREDIBLY picky about milk temperature. If it's slightly too cold or slightly too hot he rejects it totally. Ugh. Of course it's my luck to have a picky kid as my first bottle baby.

I'm really getting a crash course, this has been a horrible year. First we had the young nubian FF give birth to a baby that was found dead (not sure if it was stillborn or got too cold before we found it - even though the span of her not being in labor at all and me going to the barn because I felt something "off" was an hour). Then the Nigi doe required help (luckily two beautiful bucks were born and are doing fine now), then the Mini-Alpine and the 3rd Freshener Nubian gave birth at the same time, two of the Nubian's kids were dead when I got there (one had a broken neck, not sure about the other one) and the third was rejected by momma and is in an exercise pen with a stuffed Spongebob in my house.

So, for our kidding season so far we have 5 live kids out of 8 born. 4 of them are bucks. I was definitely hoping for more does and obviously more alive. Something must be wrong with what I'm doing, that's the only thing I can think of. 

Sorry, that was a total vent/whine, but I feel just awful. I checked those ladies RELIGIOUSLY and have been watching them like a hawk since before the first and the one time I was late getting down there is when this all happened.


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

Sounds like a rough year! I am so sorry for you. I do not know where you are but a lot of people around here are having difficulties this year. Most of the old timers suspect it was the dry fall we had. Not as much nutrition in the foarge at the end of the season and not as much in the hay we have now. It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong, just things happen. :hug: 

I hope things go better and so happy for the babies you have.  

I am still waiting for mine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Is she able to kick him when he is trying to nurse discouraging him and making him afraid? If she is... or if she isn't holding still she will have to be tied tighter so she cannot move around....

When you try him on momma's teat tickle the top area of his tail head on the back to stimulate him to feed.....it is what his momma is suppose to do....

Good idea to call a vet on the retained placenta.... :hug:

Take her temp and see what it is.... before treatment...

It wouldn't hurt to give her something for milk fever....just in case...

If the baby has a full tummy....and isn't yelling out hungry...he should be OK.... just watch him... being picky is a pain....for sure....but whatever it takes to get him through....right...

Sorry you are having a bad year....Prayers sent your way for it to start getting better.... :hug: ray: 


> Sorry, that was a total vent/whine, but I feel just awful


 It is OK to vent... that is what we are here for.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree, it sounds like a rough year, I am so sorry for your loses. I'm sure your doing a fine job, and things happen that we just can not control  It sounds like your little bottle baby is hanging in there, and how funny that he is already a picky eater! I'm just picturing a little sweetie snuggled up with........spongebob. Spongebob the babysitter? hehe....

Lots of thoughts and prayers going out to you, and your goaties. I know I would be feeling so awful too if it was happening here, so my heart is with you.


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

I had her tied about as well as I could tie her, she's a big doe and she even ripped apart the milking stand when I tried that. I'm here all alone which doesn't help and she just butted him last time, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be a no go. She's a difficult and headstrong doe even not-pregnant (though I love her dearly, she's a needy pushy girl) so maybe it's best that he doesn't learn from her.

Spongebob has been lovingly donated by my son to help keep the babe company as he's all alone up here. Spongebob is currently in the dryer after being pooped on by said babe.

He's drinking about 3 oz every 4 hours via actually sucking. I'm not sure how much he's getting while I'm trickling it in trying to get him to suck. Either way, I'm not convinced it's enough though he's pooping and peeing just fine - he's moved on to yellow poops not just black meconium.

*PSA* Do not just throw things with even the yellow poop in the washing machine. You will have to clean said washing machine with a scrub brush because it does NOT wash out. Ugh, the stuff is everywhere!

I'm really worried about him and Rende both. His poop is a little smelly but it looks normal. Could he have gotten too much rich colostrum at once?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

What breed is he again? About how much does he weigh? It sound to me like he is fine and you are doing everything right.


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

He's a mini-Nubian (1/2 Nubian, 1/2 Nigerian) and he weighs 6.8 lbs. I'm actually a bit surprised by his weight, as she is a BIG doe, and I would have expected him to weigh more, but he was one of 3 and the smallest out of them.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Sounds like you are feeding him just right then


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the yellow poop is normal 

Have you tried a bottle? what kind of nipples do you have? I like the pritchard nipples


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

I have been giving him bottles. At first I tried a regular baby nipple but he was REALLY fighting me. I had bought pritchards but I'll be darned if I can find them. Today I bought these "control flow" larger nipples at TSC as well as the black ones that are for lambs. I tried the control flow one (it's very soft, and I snipped the end so it wasn't quite so controlled) and it seemed to work ok, but I still have to force him to eat.

He has the sucking instinct he's just not getting this whole bottle thing yet...talk about stressful.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

stop syringe feeding him and then wait till he is real hungry -- then pry his mouth open and put the nipple in it. I also suggest putting something sweet on the nipple like molasses or karo to encourage sucking. 

I had kids who were great bottle babies but I always had to pry their mouth open it was like "ok mom I want it now open my mouth for me" :doh:


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

How long would you wait? 

He's not really crying out in hunger...he's spending a lot of his time sleeping, though he does get up and toddle about periodically and I make a point of getting him up. I think he needs stimulation, so I'm trying to be a good goat mama. 

I have gotten him to sort of successfully take the bottle, but it's a painful process for both of us still. Heck, I didn't even have this much trouble nursing my own kids! He just doesn't seem to want a lot in one sitting, and I've been reading 4-6 oz? Maybe that's for bigger goats because I'm lucky to get 2-3.


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Oh, and I gave Rende the Oxytocin. Have to go check her in a little bit. Anything in particular I should be watching for?

The vet doesn't make house calls anymore and they didn't even know who did anymore...lovely. She said that maybe the herd health place would, but that's iffy since it's just one goat. I'm wondering what all the farmers do around here? I live in a rural area full of small dairy farms. I guess they go without vet care?


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

*Re: 2 does gave birth at once and I missed it-all progressin*

Okay, I had to milk out Piney a little - poor thing, she was so swollen that she wasn't letting HER babies nurse and I didn't notice because I was too busy dealing with Rende's baby. I took a quart 1/2 off of her and she still had a ton of milk left, her udder is HUGE.

Rende is finally pushing out the placenta, it's touching the ground now where it was about a foot off the ground before. I'm starting her on antibiotics because she still doesn't look quite right but she might be a tad depressed as well.

Tabasco (indoor kid) is doing well, I realized that I was trying to feed him too much. I've been reading all the sites and most of them say 4-6 oz 4x a day, not every 4 hours, which my addled, exhausted brain confused. So poor thing, I've been force feeding him more than he needed - since that's bad for him too, I'm stopping that. :doh:

I finally figured out that the black lamb nipples from TSC are what he likes the most. Of course, those are a total PITA to get on the bottles. Anyone have any tips for getting those on without shooting them up over the counter or swearing in multiple languages while trying to do it?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: 2 does gave birth at once and I missed it-all progressin*



fruittartcaprines said:


> Anyone have any tips for getting those on without shooting them up over the counter or swearing in multiple languages while trying to do it?


that gave me a good chuckle

Try boil it to soften it


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## fruittartcaprines (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks Stacey! Man are those a pain  And of COURSE they are the only ones he likes.

He's doing well, he's finally started to eat on a 4 hour basis and more at one time - close to 4-5 oz per feeding before I stop him. 

I'm bummed, Rende isn't giving much milk, and with her lack of maternal instinct and problems with mastitis in the past, I'm not sure I'll want to breed her again. She's going to have to end up as a very large and noisy pet if I can't figure out what to do with her. I don't know why she's not giving much milk - she gave a ton last year even with only one side functional. Her udder is huge, not hot, and she doesn't seem to be in pain. Maybe I'll try a hot compress. She's only giving about a cup of milk, which seems like very little for her. Luckily she's perking up, but she's still not herself.

:hair: 

Ahh well, I'm grateful for the little ones that I have. A friend of mine did warn me that Nubians were the most difficult to keep alive after birth and now I believe it!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like a congested udder - you need to do hot compresses and vigorous massaging. I hear peppermint oil helps too but dont know that for a fact


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

What Stacey said. If her udder is huge you need to get the milk out so she doesn't get mastitis. I find that the fuller they are the harder it is to get them going. Once you get the milk flowing you should be able to milk her out.

Jan


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## Hidden Waters Farm (Oct 3, 2010)

We used those black nipples for one of our Nubian bucklings due to preference on a larger nipple. (We normally use Pritchard teats) the only way they were easy to get on was once they were used enough to stretch them. When his nipple finally had its last use we tried to use a new one of the same kind and he rejected it. So I had to sit and stretch the new one with my fingers for about and hour until it was supple like the other one before he would use it. I never thought of boiling it!

It looks like you are doing the best you can in the situation! It would be nice if the doe would assume responsibility though


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Everyone has great advice.... :thumb: good luck with her...I am praying... that all goes well.... :hug: ray:


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