# bigger butts on market boer wethers



## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Hello Homesteaders! I have been rasing market wethers for 2 years going on 3...I have raised 3 goats so far and none of them have had a butt on them, only stocky shoulders...does anyone know of a way to get butts on them? I know it has to do with genetics, and I have my own breeding doe this year, and breeding her with an awesome buck! So, hoping they give me good kids...anyways does anyone know how to get nice butts on them? I have run them, had them pull a tire, go up a hill, and push up on a block to eat...I've tried everything and no progress! Any help will be appreciated! Thank you!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

They just might not have the genetics or you might be pushing them too hard too fast. My kids have always pushed them hard and seemed to get the opposite effect of what we were after. We are trying something different this year. Just very short little work outs and then push them the last month. For the short work outs so far it’s just been putting them on a stand at a angle and just bracing them. When they start to huff and puff the kids put them away. They have the blocks to stand on to eat and rounds of wood to play on if they choose. But we are trying to get them nice and fat and sassy before pushing them. The kids have a few more weeks before we start doing that and although my daughters wether is lacking in the butt (genetics) my sons looks a lot better then I would have though he would not being pushed. 
Anyways some things that we have tried and do:
Treadmill where you are only having them walk with their back legs at a angle. You could also use a chariot but a old used treadmill is cheaper. Do NOT let them pee on it! That did not go well and we never have tried it again after it went nuts and would have ended in a hurt goat if I wasn’t there to pick him up. 
The stand at a angle, starting out at a small angle and working up to a much steeper angle. We have never really done super steep angles but a lot of people swear by it. 
Tie them up high either from a rafter or a fence so they are basically standing straight up. Never done this never will. I’m not going to degrade others that do this but I don’t agree with it. Just my own personal opinion. 
Then there is supplements with high protein. Supplements can be tricky though and with protein if you slam them too hard with it too fast you won’t have great results. Show rite feed did a webinar during covid and has some very good videos that explains sooooo much better then I can. See if you can find them, if not I’ll see if I saved them and will send you the links. 
How long do you have till fair?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree ☝


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Jessica84 said:


> They just might not have the genetics or you might be pushing them too hard too fast. My kids have always pushed them hard and seemed to get the opposite effect of what we were after. We are trying something different this year. Just very short little work outs and then push them the last month. For the short work outs so far it’s just been putting them on a stand at a angle and just bracing them. When they start to huff and puff the kids put them away. They have the blocks to stand on to eat and rounds of wood to play on if they choose. But we are trying to get them nice and fat and sassy before pushing them. The kids have a few more weeks before we start doing that and although my daughters wether is lacking in the butt (genetics) my sons looks a lot better then I would have though he would not being pushed.
> Anyways some things that we have tried and do:
> Treadmill where you are only having them walk with their back legs at a angle. You could also use a chariot but a old used treadmill is cheaper. Do NOT let them pee on it! That did not go well and we never have tried it again after it went nuts and would have ended in a hurt goat if I wasn’t there to pick him up.
> The stand at a angle, starting out at a small angle and working up to a much steeper angle. We have never really done super steep angles but a lot of people swear by it.
> ...


My fair is in June, so i already have had fair...I have bought my goats from my 4H leader who has some pretty good genetics that have butts, just not sure why mine never have it...I have my doe that I am know breeding so she will kid out in Decemeber and I'll have babies for my June fair..if you would like to see my doe and the buck(who is my 4Hers new buck), I can put pictures out!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well of course I would LOVE to see them! 
Here is the link to those webinars. There is SO much good information. There is nothing on really building that muscle but with the ones on working with them and the supplements it dips into it a little. I like the stand the best. It’s nice and calm, your not running any pounds off them, it’s really just working on THAT spot of the animal. I will try to go out tomorrow and get a picture of some butts lol and if you help me remember (I’m getting older ) I’ll show pics of right at fair time. We will see if our plan pays off. One of my 4H kids is going with a breeders advise of working hard from the start and I have a picture of his back end and I’ll get one at fair and we can compare it all together. But good job getting a head start for next year! I will also talk to other show moms that are more competitive and see if I can pick up any more tips and tricks


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Jessica84 said:


> Well of course I would LOVE to see them!
> Here is the link to those webinars. There is SO much good information. There is nothing on really building that muscle but with the ones on working with them and the supplements it dips into it a little. I like the stand the best. It’s nice and calm, your not running any pounds off them, it’s really just working on THAT spot of the animal. I will try to go out tomorrow and get a picture of some butts lol and if you help me remember (I’m getting older ) I’ll show pics of right at fair time. We will see if our plan pays off. One of my 4H kids is going with a breeders advise of working hard from the start and I have a picture of his back end and I’ll get one at fair and we can compare it all together. But good job getting a head start for next year! I will also talk to other show moms that are more competitive and see if I can pick up any more tips and tricks


ofc! so for the stand your sayin just put it at an inclined setting and that’s how you gain that butt on them? yes that would be awesome if you can talk to the show moms!

here is my doe(first and second photo), and then the buck(3rd and 4th), he was 6 months old in that picture. now he is a year old!


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

also for the tire pull is a car size 31 ok for pulling?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Genetics and feed are such a big part of it. My kids got into showing breeding goats, but used to do wethers as well, always % boys that were homebred. Many times they weren't 'show goats,' but had some that were pretty nice. Of course styles change and this was years ago now. However, the one year my son had a really nice wether, we did the treadmill, committed to doing it around 5 mornings a week - the boys were great, they learned they would get their breakfast on the treadmill. I think they walked for a total of about 3-5 minutes. Slow while eating to 'warm up' then after they were done eating we sped it up. Of course when they are done eating they want off of it, so we always had a halter on them (with exception of videos below lol) and they were never unsupervised.





This guy placed 4th highweight at our state fair that year (2015), my son was so thrilled, but got into breeding does/bucks after that, so we ended up getting rid of the treadmill 














So from what I have learned is, they need to have good body condition and cover BEFORE you start to work them, otherwise you are building muscle from nothing and results will mean nothing. If they don't have the rear end shape genetically, you just really aren't going to get the look you are going for. Like your doe for example, beautiful doe, but she looks like she is lacking in the rear end with no real muscle tone or shape. The buck looks pretty good from the pictures.
Once you have the cover you have to have a good feed. Now, I don't really know what wether people are going for these days with protein/fat, but I know with breeding goats 16-17% protein and 4.5-5% fat is ideal. 
There are good supplements from Purina as well. 
Check out this link:








Show Goat Feeding | Purina Animal Nutrition


Purina Animal Nutrition's expert advice on feeding strategies for goats will help your performance inside the show ring.




www.purinamills.com





Are you on Facebook? There are some really good show goat groups on there with photos, people post questions that are good to read through all of the answers to give you even more ideas. That is one thing I do love about the groups, just like this forum, lots of information out there. 

If you are breeding your own, you want to start prepping them from day 1. Make sure they are healthy, have all of their vaccinations when they need them. Do regular cocci prevention if needed and make sure no parasites internal or external that can bring them down. Around 4-6 weeks old they tend to start taking off on eating grain. Set up a creep feeder where they can have free choice feed whenever they want where adults can't get to it, and keep them growing out well. Once they are eating feed really well you can put them on a show feed. Build them up, that away once you are ready to start working them, they have cover/fat to work with


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

HoosierShadow said:


> Genetics and feed are such a big part of it. My kids got into showing breeding goats, but used to do wethers as well, always % boys that were homebred. Many times they weren't 'show goats,' but had some that were pretty nice. Of course styles change and this was years ago now. However, the one year my son had a really nice wether, we did the treadmill, committed to doing it around 5 mornings a week - the boys were great, they learned they would get their breakfast on the treadmill. I think they walked for a total of about 3-5 minutes. Slow while eating to 'warm up' then after they were done eating we sped it up. Of course when they are done eating they want off of it, so we always had a halter on them (with exception of videos below lol) and they were never unsupervised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i did take her to the fair this year and got first place with her and moved up to the bigger does to see if we get champion and i got 3rd place. i did compete with a ADGA registered doe and bet her. the judge did say that she had amazing breeding doe body style but she needs more hips on her, he did say she had a perfect rump on her.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm glad she placed well, she really is lovely! You were talking about needing more butt, and although she is nice, in that picture where she is set up she doesn't have a lot of shape back there and that is a genetic thing. We have a lovely yearling who was a hard keeper when we got her, and she has good, healthy weight now, but could also use more butt/shape back there. 
I'm in KY, and most county fairs are open shows, so you can travel around to the different fairs, many in our area have their youth market/commercial classes, then open (anyone can show) registered Boer goat show. This summer my daughter showed at 6 shows. We show against families that have National ABGA show quality animals, so it's tough competition. So again it just depends on the competition and what you are wanting to achieve. 
Something you can look into as far as showing does is working the hair. A LOT of people work hair for the shows we go to. Look into grooming conditioning sprays (like the Green Stuff or Show coat products), I know Sullivan Supply has some stuff you can use as well. Get into a good routine a couple of months before your fair of working the hair. Learn how to help shape the butt, don't give her that real slick appearance. I admit, I am lousy at shaping butts lol, but there are great youtube video to help you learn. Leaving hair on the back end and learning how to shape it could really give you an advantage in the show ring.


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

this was my market goat from this years fair which is in June(father’s day week/end) he was the heaviest goat in the whole market goat barn weighing in ar 104 pounds the judge said he did need more butt on him but he really liked his shoulders, my boy he had stocky shoulders. i didn’t like the way he turned out this year, i did wish he had a stockier butt to began wit, but what’s funny is that all of his siblings that showed with me all has butts


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

He looks nice, maybe a bit lean conditioned but hard to tell from the photo. Have you tried not putting his legs so far out behind him (if you still have him) and see if it helps? I feel like sometimes the wethers stretch out so much it takes away from their butts. Did his siblings come from same mom or just same dad? Older? bigger? We've had bucks that produce good kids with some does, and not the best with others.


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

what do you mean by lean conditioned? i have but he does look the same actually if i put his legs closer to him. i don’t have him he went to auction in June, that’s when my fair is. he had a sister but she is a breeder. all of his siblings have same dad but different moms. all the same age, mine was the biggest out of all of his siblings coming in at 104 pounds. he gained 10 pounds a week and was feed 10 pounds a day. all of his siblings went to fair actually and auction and they came in at a weight of 80-94 pounds.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

When I think of lean I think of no real fat cover, I think in his case he is stretched out in the picture and is just so big framed. He just doesn't have much leg muscle or cover back there. Different moms make a huge difference, did you see the mom? Did she have a good rear end on her? Some throw fast growers, and some slow growers. I know the slower growers are preferred for wethers. We are the opposite with our breeding goats, we want fast growing kids. When my kids did wethers ours were fast growers, I think smallest they ever showed were 2 little boys they bought just to put through our 4H sale, they weren't good show wethers, too dairy like. Our homebred were % boys and 70-110lbs. Our boys weren't any better than yours, so I am definitely not knocking him at all! It's hard when you put in the work and genetics hinder the results if that's the case. I do love the look of his front end from that angle. 
Are you sure he was eating 10lbs a day? The only time I've come close to that amount is 300lb bucks and even they could barely eat close to that a day. At 10lbs a day I'd think he would be fat, bigger bellied and have a bigger butt on him.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with everything Hoosier has said. Your boy there looks a lot like our previous wethers and working them too much before they are conditioned I do think was our biggest downfall. We had our showmanship practice the other day and looking at a few of the other goats, and getting my hands on them, I very much believe over working before ready has the opposite effect of what we are after. 
So a friend there took pictures, not the best pictures of my daughters, but here is her wether.
















Ignore the goofy standing with the woman holding him but you can get kinda a idea of that butt, and it definitely is lacking. 
But I went back threw and got pictures of our previous wethers, again not great pictures but you can see there is a huge difference between them. Our fair is the first weekend of September so about 5-6 weeks to go still with her current wether
































And just for fun here are their does they showed. They never work the does as much as the wethers, and it’s not hair on their butts, my goats always lack that nice fluffy show hair lol








I don’t breed for market goats, my kids have always just wanted the money. This year my son did sell his two wethers and bought a decent, actual wether bred wether. He has showmanship practice tomorrow and I’ll get you some good pictures of him to throw some genetics into the mix too. Both my daughters and my sons wethers have been fed the same and nothing had been done differently management wise but you will be able to see the difference in genetics


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

HoosierShadow said:


> When I think of lean I think of no real fat cover, I think in his case he is stretched out in the picture and is just so big framed. He just doesn't have much leg muscle or cover back there. Different moms make a huge difference, did you see the mom? Did she have a good rear end on her? Some throw fast growers, and some slow growers. I know the slower growers are preferred for wethers. We are the opposite with our breeding goats, we want fast growing kids. When my kids did wethers ours were fast growers, I think smallest they ever showed were 2 little boys they bought just to put through our 4H sale, they weren't good show wethers, too dairy like. Our homebred were % boys and 70-110lbs. Our boys weren't any better than yours, so I am definitely not knocking him at all! It's hard when you put in the work and genetics hinder the results if that's the case. I do love the look of his front end from that angle.
> Are you sure he was eating 10lbs a day? The only time I've come close to that amount is 300lb bucks and even they could barely eat close to that a day. At 10lbs a day I'd think he would be fat, bigger bellied and have a bigger butt on him.


i did see mom and dad. they both looked good. i think the problem was that i worked him too hard. he was eating 10 pounds a day. 5 pounds per feeding so he gained 10 pounds a week getting him up to 104 pounds. he was 110 but i didn’t cut back on feed decreasing him to 104. he does have a built frame up front which he has the stocky muscles. and no butt. i think that’s my fault bc i didn’t get any fat on him to then turn that into muscle in the rear.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jessica those are nice goats, I love your daughters wether this year very flashy and has a nice chest! He looks like he has potential in that rear end so hopefully he can put some muscle on before the show. Have you tried any supplements like Champion Drive or Fitter 35? I know the family in our county that show wethers said one of those made a huge difference in their wethers, but I can not remember which one they are using.

Wild Bug Ranch - trust me we all have struggles and I always wonder how some of these big farms and wether families pull it off. There are really big competition here, kids that are traveling all over the state competing in county fairs, state district shows, some other shows as well and everyone is starting to gear up for state fair in a few weeks. 
We went to 6 shows this summer, I had to help my daughter show some of her goats as they are open breeding shows for youth/adults, so if I wasn't helping show I was holding goats, so didn't take my camera, and my cell phone takes terrible pictures...

Here are some of my daughter's goats she is showing this year, again ignore the awful quality...

This doe went to a couple of shows, she was born March 2021. We didn't want her getting too fat as we want to breed her as soon as she comes in heat. She was a competitive 2nd placing behind a $10,000 goat each show. Last year she was a very competitive 3-6 month old doe in ABGA shows. 









This is my daughter's favorite yearling that she is showing. end of Dec 2020 born, she was shown last year as a kid and did well. She was Grand Champion at a show last week and back in May she won her ABGA class. She isn't the tallest or fanciest - but we love her. She is very fat though and needs a serious diet. She will not like us after the next/last show. As it is she only gets about 2lbs or so of feed a day (fed with another yearling).









Those 2 does are sired by same buck and he put butts on his kids. 

2mo doe on left, 4 1/2mo buck on the right, similar genetics, both from sets of quads and were bottle/bucket raised. Buck hasn't been prepped for showing and is not on a show feed, etc. We brought him to 2 shows just to get him out. With time, work and feed he'll be a decent buck. He did win his class at 2 shows and the little doe hasn't really had any competition yet, but can't compete with older/bigger goats in champion drive.









This doe in the middle is my daughters new doe we bought her in May for all the hard work she does. This doe has been very consistent, winning big classes and has been Grand Champion 2x and Reserve 4x and overall Supreme at our fair which is a big deal for my daughter. 
She 'had' an amazing coat, but this last heat wave I had my daughter rinse her in the afternoons to help cool her off and it caused her to shed her coat! She has had bald spots! Totally my fault. We thought we were done showing for the summer, but decided to try a show next month and are scrambling trying to condition her coat and brushing to encourage hair regrowth. Born Dec 2021 - our little red doe is on the right 









This doe goes to shows as a buddy for the other yearling, depending on age breakdown I sometimes show her. She isn't fancy, but is a nice doe, needs butt.










This is younger sister to that 2nd yearling and she has been to a couple of shows now and has won her class. She is super sweet and so pretty, I wish I had better pictures of her. This was before her 1st show as I hadn't clipped her yet.









Little 'runt' buck was Grand and Reserve champion at 2 shows! Not sure if we'll sell him or try to take him to the next show. 









Then there is this guy, this was last week at a show, he just needs to put on weight. He just turned 8 months old.









Needs butt...


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

HoosierShadow said:


> Jessica those are nice goats, I love your daughters wether this year very flashy and has a nice chest! He looks like he has potential in that rear end so hopefully he can put some muscle on before the show. Have you tried any supplements like Champion Drive or Fitter 35? I know the family in our county that show wethers said one of those made a huge difference in their wethers, but I can not remember which one they are using.
> 
> Wild Bug Ranch - trust me we all have struggles and I always wonder how some of these big farms and wether families pull it off. There are really big competition here, kids that are traveling all over the state competing in county fairs, state district shows, some other shows as well and everyone is starting to gear up for state fair in a few weeks.
> We went to 6 shows this summer, I had to help my daughter show some of her goats as they are open breeding shows for youth/adults, so if I wasn't helping show I was holding goats, so didn't take my camera, and my cell phone takes terrible pictures...
> ...


wow! aren’t those gorgeous animals right there! i am so jealous! your bucks/buckling a and does/doelings look amazing! 

i am gonna try the champion drive next year on my wethers. i am excited about the kids i am gonna get out of my doe and the buck!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks I appreciate it! No need to be jealous, you will get there with your determination!! I am so glad you are excited and looking forward to the kids and showing next year. We are looking forward to next summer as the National ABGA/JABGA show will be near us next year, we've always wanted to go even if we don't have national quality animals, just to go and experience it and see/meet people, see the goats and SHOPPING (lol). My daughter is excited to show in the JABGA youth show. 
This is kind of one of our bucketlist things to do with the goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree ☝


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## Leilani (Dec 9, 2020)

It could possibly a genetic thing . My boys I’ve always tried staying on the same genetic string because they have always ended up stocky and ended up with a bigger back end. My wether I’m showing this year is the first 2 . And the others are in the rest of the photos . i don’t ever really push my goat hard until about 2 months until county , what I do to gain muscle and keep my goats in shape during when I’m not pushing them hard is running them for at least 5 minutes then walking for 30.
I start tire pulling about 3 months out of my county show. You don’t wanna push them hard in the first few months with them , those first few months are more important on pushing feed and figuring out feed and gaining that fill on your goat because you want more fat and muscle because to gain muscle you need fat. So right now I’m not pushing him to hard on exercise but I’m still pushing him a little so he gains that muscle so he gains that but and stocky build to him. I recommend for a feed that fills those rough patches in your goat that feed would be motorman’s moorgrands , it will fill in the patches and fill him out , it’s a textured feed and I’ve started using it these past 2 years and it’s worked wonders for me. A supplement if needed would be 4u2win it’s really good at filling out your goat in many many ways. If you have any questions feel free to pm me!


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Leilani said:


> It could possibly a genetic thing . My boys I’ve always tried staying on the same genetic string because they have always ended up stocky and ended up with a bigger back end. My wether I’m showing this year is the first 2 . And the others are in the rest of the photos . i don’t ever really push my goat hard until about 2 months until county , what I do to gain muscle and keep my goats in shape during when I’m not pushing them hard is running them for at least 5 minutes then walking for 30.
> I start tire pulling about 3 months out of my county show. You don’t wanna push them hard in the first few months with them , those first few months are more important on pushing feed and figuring out feed and gaining that fill on your goat because you want more fat and muscle because to gain muscle you need fat. So right now I’m not pushing him to hard on exercise but I’m still pushing him a little so he gains that muscle so he gains that but and stocky build to him. I recommend for a feed that fills those rough patches in your goat that feed would be motorman’s moorgrands , it will fill in the patches and fill him out , it’s a textured feed and I’ve started using it these past 2 years and it’s worked wonders for me. A supplement if needed would be 4u2win it’s really good at filling out your goat in many many ways. If you have any questions feel free to pm me!
> View attachment 236799
> View attachment 236800
> ...


first off beautiful goats!!!
and second, so i’ll have babies on the ground December but they will be ready to start training in January. My show is June(fathers day week/end). so what your saying if first 2 months halter train him and run him for 5 minutes and walk for 30 minutes and then thw last 3 months have him pull a tire.


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## Leilani (Dec 9, 2020)

Wild Bug Ranch said:


> first off beautiful goats!!!
> and second, so i’ll have babies on the ground December but they will be ready to start training in January. My show is June(fathers day week/end). so what your saying if first 2 months halter train him and run him for 5 minutes and walk for 30 minutes and then thw last 3 months have him pull a tire.


Ok so what I do for about 3 months is straight feeding and walking/running , then around when I hit majors and or near county I have them pull a tire to start gaining that muscle and popping their muscles more and getting them to get bulky


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## Leilani (Dec 9, 2020)

But make sure you don’t kill to much fat , you still want them to have cover . Never think your goat is fat unless he just look super bloated


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Leilani said:


> But make sure you don’t kill to much fat , you still want them to have cover . Never think your goat is fat unless he just look super bloated


ok this makes more sense now. 
i feed lamb slam, goat dominator and goat balancer along with this year im going to start a new supplement that i have never tried before it’s called Purina Fitter 35 or i’m going to try Purina Champion Drive. 

since from January to June i’ll have about 5 months so from January-April i’ll feed, walk him for 30 minutes and run for 5 minutes and build fat so i’ll do that every other day, and then from Mid-April to Fair time i’ll have him pull a tire along with feeding of course lol


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## Leilani (Dec 9, 2020)

Wild Bug Ranch said:


> ok this makes more sense now.
> i feed lamb slam, goat dominator and goat balancer along with this year im going to start a new supplement that i have never tried before it’s called Purina Fitter 35 or i’m going to try Purina Champion Drive.
> 
> since from January to June i’ll have about 5 months so from January-April i’ll feed, walk him for 30 minutes and run for 5 minutes and build fat so i’ll do that every other day, and then from Mid-April to Fair time i’ll have him pull a tire along with feeding of course lol


Careful with fitter 35 that is more of a fat killer , if ur going with purina I recommend champion drive


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

Leilani said:


> Careful with fitter 35 that is more of a fat killer , if ur going with purina I recommend champion drive


ok good to know thank you!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

One of the kids in my group use the fitter and she started him on it and it did NOT do that goat justice! 
I was blown away that there was someone on here enough in my area they are feeding associated feed lol we always did the lamb slam and dominator but when we got our sons wether the breeder told us he feeds shoemaker supreme goat. So we have been feeding both of the wethers that and I can tell a huge difference in gain and cover. I am very pleased with the feed. So might be something to try and see if you like it. 
Another breeder uses dominator and adds supreme doe in for the extra fat. They always do decent so that’s another option for you to look into


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice 👍


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## FarmGirlLover (Dec 15, 2021)

I saw this thread and i had to respond. I know someone who makes their goats walk backwards on the tread mill and they say it definitely builds the butt muscles. haven't tried it yet though.


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 19, 2021)

FarmGirlLover said:


> I saw this thread and i had to respond. I know someone who makes their goats walk backwards on the tread mill and they say it definitely builds the butt muscles. haven't tried it yet though.


ok good to know thank you!


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