# Bucks will be Bucks. Or Wethers will be buck??



## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

So apparently my bucklings that were supposed to be wethered did not get wethered. No they remained BUCKS. How is it even possible that a VET can perform banding and FAIL with not one... but TWO! 
Not that I don't want to strangle the vet, I do. Even better. Pretty positive my 2 does and my 9 month old doeling are bred. So regardless of who bred who, there is for sure inbreeding going on. Both bucks and Jr doe have the same father. One buck is the does sister... 

Here's the question. WHAT DO I DO? 

I have no clue how far along they are. Doeling is pretty wide and all look bred via pooch test too me. How late can they be too lute them? Not concerned about the adult does but not sure about my baby. That being said I also have no idea when to do vaccines, selenium supplement, pregnancy herbs, etc if they go through with the pregnancies...


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Sorry!

Our does usually grow to 80% of adult size by a year. If your girl is well-grown, she might be able to handle it. We had younger does accidentally bred; gave cmpk when we saw them bagging up (the first one bagged up and we realized they were preggo!). My thinking was, growing and gestating both pull a lot of minerals, so cmpk would restore the big ones. 

BUT, if you can't use 'em or sell 'em, if you don't want to eat 'em, you might look into ultrasound (ask your vet for a discount) to try to guess how far along and whether you can terminate.

If you let them carry 'em, guess stages by signs, and do prenatal care by best-guess.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

wow thats terrible. First off Id get every penny back from the vet. Second Id let him know that if anything goes wrong with the kiddings, he will be out there at the drop of a hat and doing it for free. Incompetence in a vet is a dangerous thing.

OR let him know he will be doing it surgically now and doing it for free. If he refuses, good time for a small court claims.

Now are you sure they are actually breeding or just going through the motions?


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

I will be pulling blood and sending it too biotracking asap. As soon as I know they really are bred I will hash it out with the 'vet'. The doe is pretty close to her mother's size but I'm still worried about her. 

As for resulting babies. All are registered but I doubt I can register inbred goats?? Either way I'll probably try to sale resulting babies as pets only... 

What is cmpk?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

So...what exactly makes you think they're intact? Generally pretty easy to tell a buck from a wether (though someone on Facebook was asking the other day how you tell whether babies are boys or girls :eyeroll


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## Woody_Glen_Farm (Feb 23, 2014)

If your vet used a burdizzo to neuter them, they would still have scrotum but much smaller than intact bucks! When a burdizzo is used, the tubes that carry the semen are crushed permanently and can't carry semen but they will still have scrotum but they will stop growing. Sometimes people believe their neutered bucks are intact because they see the balls and the mounting behavior. Could that be what's happening here? If you look up pics of intact balls on bucks you can see how BIG they are. Do your bucks balls look that big?


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Get the vials and draw blood for biotracking. The. You will know who is preggo. Any other boys on the property who could have done a sneaky through the fence breeding? Or have anyone who could have accidentally let a buck into the girls' area and then put him back?

When they were banded, are you 100% sure both testicles were descended on both boys? If one or both had an undescended testicle, that could explain pregnancy. Post pics of both boys please, because I'd like to see them. Does one or both look more bucklike than wether?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

You can register inbred goats. When inbreeding results in great kids, we call it linebreeding. Inbreeding doesn't usually produce seriously defective kids; it just provides a chance for genes to become homozygous (it's the only gene the goat has, so its the only one he/she can give to kids). That's good if they're good traits, bad if they're bad traits. A lot of bad traits are recessive; you don't know they're there until you get a goat who's homozygous for them.

CMPK is calcium, magnesium potassium and phosphorous. It's an oral gel (or an injectable) supplement.

Lots of farms breed their girls at 7 months to kid at 12 months. If the kids have the growth and health, they can do fine. Lots of other farms wait 'til the girls are 2 years. 2 years is pretty safe. 1 year is safe if the doe is physically ready and the buck doesn't throw big kids.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice by all. Can't say it any better.

Good luck. Keep us updated.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

^^^How much cmpk did you give your goat? I've been thinking about getting some to have on hand for kidding but I couldn't tell if the tube had directions for goats.


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

There is no other goats within miles of me. Will probably pull blood tomorrow so I can know for sure.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

That's so awful. If I were that vet, I'd be so embarrassed I'd offer to fix both your boys for free and make sure I was available when your young doe goes into labor.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

LadySecret said:


> That's so awful. If I were that vet, I'd be so embarrassed I'd offer to fix both your boys for free and make sure I was available when your young doe goes into labor.


I agree! BUT, if the vet doesn't take responsibility, I wouldn't go after him/her if he/she is the only goat vet available. Lots of hassle and expense, but a lot of meds and emergency services are only available from a vet. I'd be darn sure to have another vet lined up before I messed up the relationship with the first one (even in such a clear-cut case of vet incompetence).


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

CMPK dose - a tube is for a cow, which is about 1000-1800 lbs. Figuring a goat is about 1/10th of a cow, I try to give about an inch of the tube. I didn't even have a caulk gun for it last year, so I put a probios tube inside to push it! (I use C.M.P.K. Gel, 300 g tube).

It tastes like crap, so they spit out what they can.  

If you want to give a precise dose, it works out to 17 to 30 mL per 100 lbs. and the cow instructions are to give that 12 hours before kidding and 12 hours after kidding. For the oral liquid, the dose would be about 1/10th of the cow dose per 100 lbs of goat.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

^^^Thanks!


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