# Diabetic and having seizures



## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi! I am hoping I came to the right place for help! I take care of a herd of Nigerian dwarf goats at the local zoo. Our youngest is 3 years old. He got sick a lot as a baby and the vets quickly figured out he is diabetic. He gets insulin twice a day. His daily diet is 1 cup of high fiber grain and he shares Timothy and orchard with the rest of the herd. He usually doesn't eat all of his grain though. About a month ago, he had what looked like a mild seizure. His head was shaking for about a minute and he was lethargic the rest of the day. We checked his glucose and found it was low. Today he had his 2nd seizure (that we know of). It was more of a typical seizure but only lasted about 15-20 seconds. As soon as it stopped, he stood up and seemed completely fine. His glucose was normal this time. But I am seriously concerned he has had at least 2 seizures within a month even though he never had them before. It might help to add he is very small for his age and was, unfortunately, inbred (sister = mother). Can anybody offer any insight or advice I can take to my boss? We are very worried goat parents! 
onder:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do the goats get mineral supplements?


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

We put minerals on their grain every day. We give them baking soda to help with digestion too.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

How often is his sugar checked? Maybe check once or twice daily for a week and see how his sugar trend. Maybe he needs his insulin dose adjusted.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I would never dose with insulin without first checking blood sugar. Not even in an animal. So I would start there.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Minerals should be free choice.

Check out this article about baking soda. 
http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php/battling-bloat


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

His glucose is normally only​ checked about once a week. We don't have a big vet staff so checking his insulin, unfortunately, is not a priority when there are rare species or individual animals with bigger problems or needing their exams and the regular staff isn't allowed to draw blood. Thanks for the article Suzanne! That was a really interesting read. I will have to so it to my boss.


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## Nyjah (Mar 5, 2017)

Lgile225 said:


> His glucose is normally only checked about once a week. We don't have a big vet staff so checking his insulin, unfortunately, is not a priority when there are rare species or individual animals with bigger problems or needing their exams and the regular staff isn't allowed to draw blood. Thanks for the article Suzanne! That was a really interesting read. I will have to so it to my boss.


Can you use an over the counter glucose meter and do an ear stick? My son is diabetic and you only need a drop of blood to check glucose, not a blood draw. I have friends who use the same meter to check their cats blood sugar.

Is his insulin, long acting or short? the long acting will be less unsafe if he eats a light meal, but the short could cause immediate drops in blood sugar.

Its really wonderful you guys are taking care of the little fellow.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

If he is having decreased food intake, and receiving the same amount of insulin, then he is probably hypoglycemic. If you cannot check his sugar more frequently then offer molasses water when he is not eating as much. Sugars that are a bit high aren't as dangerous as those too low.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Right, checking via the ear should be relatively easy, thats how you do it with dogs and cats. No blood draw required. 

and I also agree that levels too high are way safer (and less likely to result in death) than numbers that are too low. When in doubt, don't give insulin. Too much insulin and too little food will cause an animal to go off feed, creating a vicious cycle of lower an lower blood sugar and seizures. Which is sounding more and more like what is happening.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I agree with Dayna.


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

This is awful but I actually didn't know there were different kinds of insulin so I have no idea if it is long or short acting. I REALLY appreciate all of the input. If there is anything else anybody can think of I would love to hear it!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Lgile225 said:


> This is awful but I actually didn't know there were different kinds of insulin so I have no idea if it is long or short acting. I REALLY appreciate all of the input. If there is anything else anybody can think of I would love to hear it!


Can you look in the fridge and see what the label says? I'm sure we can find out if its short or long acting.

Long acting in some cases can be worse.

When my cat had diabetes I had him on insulin to get him over the "emergency" situation, but once I got his numbers under control I was able to control his diabetes through diet alone. His pancreas wasn't producing much insulin but I made it work.

I found the vet diabetic food actually made his diabetes worse instead of better.

So I would address the diet, find out what the insulin is, and test his blood sugar. You might find with a different diet he might not need it.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh and veterinarians know next to nothing about animal diabetes. I'm serious. Even my friends who are vets are like... 2 hours in veterinary school (I'm sure it was more, but they said thats what it felt like). Everything they learned is old information and its up the owners to do the research and find out the best course of action. And every type of animal reacts to different types of insulin from different sources differently. My cat did really bad on one type of insulin frequently used in dogs, so we switched to some other animal based (pig?) insulin and it worked much better for him.


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

So please don't judge me but I honestly didn't know there are different kinds of insulin so I have no idea if it is long or short acting. But I really appreciate everyone's input and if anyone can think of anything else I would love to hear it!


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

Ack! My phone is being awful and didn't load anything until after I reposted that reply! I can't figure out how to delete it now lol!


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Nyjah said:


> Can you use an over the counter glucose meter and do an ear stick? My son is diabetic and you only need a drop of blood to check glucose, not a blood draw. I have friends who use the same meter to check their cats blood sugar.
> 
> Is his insulin, long acting or short? the long acting will be less unsafe if he eats a light meal, but the short could cause immediate drops in blood sugar.
> 
> Its really wonderful you guys are taking care of the little fellow.


You may need one calibrated for goats. Ours at the vet clinic have setting for dogs and a different setting for cats. But you could do a pin prick on the ear to test.

I'd question a young goat being diabetic...

How long after his insulin did he seize?


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

nicolemackenzie said:


> You may need one calibrated for goats. Ours at the vet clinic have setting for dogs and a different setting for cats. But you could do a pin prick on the ear to test.
> 
> I'd question a young goat being diabetic...
> 
> How long after his insulin did he seize?


He gets his insulin around 8:30am. His first seizure happened around 2pm and his second one was around 11am.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

If he is on a 12 hour long-lasting insulin, the 2pm seizure would coincide with the peak of the insulin, when it it easiest to go low (blood sugar). For the second, did you mean 11pm? When does he get his second dose? The peak for 12 hour long-lasting insulin is about 6 hours after it is administered, at least that's how it is for humans, and it should be similar in goats, if that is his treatment. At the peak, you have the most insulin in your system, and need to eat to keep your blood glucose high enough to be in safe levels.


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

singinggoatgirl said:


> If he is on a 12 hour long-lasting insulin, the 2pm seizure would coincide with the peak of the insulin, when it it easiest to go low (blood sugar). For the second, did you mean 11pm? When does he get his second dose? The peak for 12 hour long-lasting insulin is about 6 hours after it is administered, at least that's how it is for humans, and it should be similar in goats, if that is his treatment. At the peak, you have the most insulin in your system, and need to eat to keep your blood glucose high enough to be in safe levels.


He gets his 2nd dose around 8:30pm. And no, around 11 in the morning is when he had his 2nd seizure.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

OH, so 11am on a different day. Got it.


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## Lgile225 (Jun 6, 2017)

So update time! The poor guy had another seizure this morning at 9:07, 30 minutes after getting 1.5 units of insulin. It lasted about 20 seconds and he seemed alert afterwards. He was holding his lips different though so it looked like he had an under bite even though he doesn't. He was walking and eating his hay fine after. 

I found out after his 1st seizure, his glucose was below 20 but it was normal after the last 2 and the vets changed his pm insulin dose from 2 units to 1.5 units so he is now getting a total of 3 units daily. Plus he has been loosing weight recently but he is eating all his food.. My boss and I are both getting worried something is seriously wrong with our baby..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is tough when there really isn't enough study done on animals.


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