# Does our percentage boer doe look pregnant?



## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

We picked this gal up in late August when she was born in May 2020. Then we pick up a buck born in June 2020 and brought him home in Oct 31st. She is percentage boer and he is 50% commercial black dappling.
We planned to breed them of course, but wanted to breed them around 10 mo. Or at the full yr. Our buck crazy for her March 6th 2021. She seemed to have been running from him which she has always down if there were together for whatever reason and he went to mount her. Anyhow, he was chasing her around all day on the 6th that we believed he must of gotten her pregnant. (This would be her first time of course).
Around the 14th of March her teats had dropped from being tiny to the point that they were twice the size.
March 21st- I could feel more of what would be a bag but it was still tiny and you couldn't see it with the hair. I could now feel a soft lump around her chest on the right side and another towards the back of her rib cage on the left side.
April 2nd- The bag is twice the size (hand size) but you still can't see it through the hair. The teats are now visible when standing behind her. The lumps in her stomach are A LOT easier to find.

From what everything I have read, she definitely shouldn't be reacting this quickly. So, either she isn't pregnant or she had gotten pregnant a few months ago. Thoughts on this? Would like to get a timeline for when to give the CD&T shot along with separating her from others and so forth. Thanks in advance!
_Photos taken first in the morning when she was let out from the barn on April 2nd_


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

You would feel kids on her right side. There's a saying I heard that helps me remember which side to check for kids. Rugrats on the right, lunch on the left.  It is hard to feel for kids! There is so much rumen movement. I have felt kids during the last stages of pregnancy and seen them kicking , but in the early stages, I have never been able to feel a kid. 
From what I can see, her teats have begun lengthening, but she really doesn't have an udder yet. I've seen the teats begin to lengthen within 30-40 days after breeding, though the actual udder did not become noticeable until later. I don't see much growth on her right side yet, which would make me think that she's not really very far along. But she's also a pretty big girl from what I can see, so she might hide her kids well and surprise you!
I bet she'll have some pretty kids!


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> You would feel kids on her right side. There's a saying I heard that helps me remember which side to check for kids. Rugrats on the right, lunch on the left.  It is hard to feel for kids! There is so much rumen movement. I have felt kids during the last stages of pregnancy and seen them kicking , but in the early stages, I have never been able to feel a kid.
> From what I can see, her teats have begun lengthening, but she really doesn't have an udder yet. I've seen the teats begin to lengthen within 30-40 days after breeding, though the actual udder did not become noticeable until later. I don't see much growth on her right side yet, which would make me think that she's not really very far along. But she's also a pretty big girl from what I can see, so she might hide her kids well and surprise you!
> I bet she'll have some pretty kids!


Thank you! I have not heard of the right versus left thing before!! I'll remember that! I can feel a lump on her right side, but maybe I should try to feel for it early in the morning instead of at night! I am hoping she is only a month pregnant that way she will be older when she has them, but then again it would be summer time which I have heard is harder on kids😓


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Update: Me and my mother felt her stomach this morning and can feel 2 bumps on the right side. She is pawing the ground a lot. Pushed her head against the tree but that may have been to scratch an itch? Nibbling on her stomach a lot. Laying down more than normal but I think that might be due to her hooves needing a trim. I see her bag now but still has hair on it. Her vulva has swollen/puffy a lot. Has been jerking her head back a bit as Iif she is going to reach back to her stomach but instead she'll stop and lower it back in place- she does it repetitively. And has been keeping her eyes on me to see/ following me around. She normally goes off on her own with the other goats. She is licking and chewing + yawning but that oddly looks forced not due to tiredness. Yet, no mucus. She is still grazing so maybe I'm reading to much into it and being a helicopter mom😅 (reminder- we are both first timers)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No, she does not look pregnant to me.

When was she exposed to a buck?


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> No, she does not look pregnant to me.
> 
> When was she exposed to a buck?


On March 6th. If she doesn't look pregnant then why would her bag and teats show up? I could barely see the teats before and now I can feel the a small bag that has gotten bigger just in the past 2 days. Is it normal?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

March 6th?
Only being a month along, she won’t show any pregnancy signs yet.

How old is she?
If she is young, she might just be maturing?

Their teats may get a little bit bigger.

Does her bloodlines have a lot of good milk producers?


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> March 6th?
> Only being a month along, she won’t show any pregnancy signs yet.
> 
> How old is she?
> ...


She will be a year old next month. Ever since March 6th we have just been keeping the goats together as we are working things out in the pastures and what not... We figured if she was pregnant then it would be fine and if she wasn't yet then she could get pregnant. (Our buck isn't aggressive and never hits the does. So, we figured they would be alright in that aspect). Past week they have been separated. I honestly wish I knew more about her bloodlines. All I know is that she is a percentage boer. Her sire was a haus!! The dam just looked like normal boer goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You will have to give it time. 
About a month, month and a half
prior to kidding, they really begin an udder and start changing in the rear end. 

Hopefully she is of good size and the buck wasn’t a bigger breed than her.

If you want to get an answer sooner, get a preg teat done.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> You will have to give it time.
> About a month, month and a half
> prior to kidding, they really begin an udder and start changing in the rear end.
> 
> ...


Thanks!! I'm hoping to get her into the vet soon. A friend who raised Boers for 30 yrs said the same. About 6-8 wks prior kidding they will begin developing an udder. She is getting a bit bigger in the stomach, but may take a week of that happening for me to say for sure.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Update on Persephone:
For the passed two days she has ate less grain and won't touch the hay during the night... I have noticed that at night while in her stall she won't get up to use the restroom she will let it go on herself it seems..(when I checked on her, she will sometimes get up and I will see poop and pee where her rear end was) She will still get up at times and use the restroom while she is up. She plays and eats all day still but takes her breaks. Her stomach is bigger in the mornings even when she baring touches her food in the stall.
I have added some photos of her vulva. It is puffy and I found some small blood spots on her tail. They are cuts or anything from what I can tell. She has never had that. The pointer part of the vulva was angled downward last week, now it points straight out Her bag seems to have dropped a bit more but isn't filled or anything.
Her FAMACHA score a week ago was a 3. We wanted to wait to worm her but I checked it yesterday and now it is a 1. Maybe I messed up on that?? And the hard spot on her right side seems to be lower but that might be due to the larger stomach...








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^Sides dip inward where my hand lays
























^blood on her tail and poop around the vulva where she won't always get up at night when using the restroom








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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

If she has a heavy worm load, that could cause her to feel bad and have low energy, making her lay around more and not be excited about feed. Worms can also cause runny poop. At the earlier stages of pregnancy, I don't think she should be lethargic because of being pregnant. There is probably something else going on.
The blood is strange. It makes me wonder about a possible UTI. Can you take her temperature?
If it's been more than 30 days since you think she may have been bred, you can send blood off for a pregnancy test.
Based on your pictures, I would say she is a little copper deficient. Her fur looks kinda of coarse and wiry. That's one of the signs of copper deficiency. Keeping her copper levels up will help her body fight off worms, too. 
Since you were already thinking about taking her to a vet, that might be a good idea, just to rule out other potential issues such as a UTI, hopefully get her preg checked (though you can do the blood draw and send that off yourself), and it would be good to run a fecal to see what worms you're dealing with. You can send off a fecal sample to Meadow Mist Labs, too. The prices there are very reasonable.
If you do decide to worm her, be aware that there are some wormers you shouldn't give while the goat is pregnant. Valbazen is one I know right off the top of my head, but I think there are a couple others that can cause issues during pregnancy.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> If she has a heavy worm load, that could cause her to feel bad and have low energy, making her lay around more and not be excited about feed. Worms can also cause runny poop. At the earlier stages of pregnancy, I don't think she should be lethargic because of being pregnant. There is probably something else going on.
> The blood is strange. It makes me wonder about a possible UTI. Can you take her temperature?
> If it's been more than 30 days since you think she may have been bred, you can send blood off for a pregnancy test.
> Based on your pictures, I would say she is a little copper deficient. Her fur looks kinda of coarse and wiry. That's one of the signs of copper deficiency. Keeping her copper levels up will help her body fight off worms, too.
> ...


Her poop and pee have been fine and her FAMACHA score is good. I'm going to take another look at it tomorrow and maybe give her Safe Guard. We also have Ivermectin which I might give in a smaller dose than what is recommended for goats to be on the safe side. Her fur has also been coarse since we got her. I checked today and her feed has the right amount of copper needed. So, I may need to figure something else out for her. Her temp was fine a couple days ago, but I can check it again. I know it's been hot here and she still has some winter fur on her which could be a bit physically draining. 🤔 Ohh! And for the blood.. I will definitely keep my eye on it. I don't think it is a cut on her tail. I have realized that along the edges of her tail, she has red dots that are a similar color. It making me think something has been biting her?? Not sure if the dots are normal or what.
I have noticed today that there are a lot of factors that could be causing her to act the way she does. So, hopefully a vet check up will help draw some conclusions.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Dapple_boer201 said:


> Her poop and pee have been fine and her FAMACHA score is good. I'm going to take another look at it tomorrow and maybe give her Safe Guard. We also have Ivermectin which I might give in a smaller dose than what is recommended for goats to be on the safe side. Her fur has also been coarse since we got her. I checked today and her feed has the right amount of copper needed. So, I may need to figure something else out for her. Her temp was fine a couple days ago, but I can check it again. I know it's been hot here and she still has some winter fur on her which could be a bit physically draining. 🤔 Ohh! And for the blood.. I will definitely keep my eye on it. I don't think it is a cut on her tail. I have realized that along the edges of her tail, she has red dots that are a similar color. It making me think something has been biting her?? Not sure if the dots are normal or what.
> I have noticed today that there are a lot of factors that could be causing her to act the way she does. So, hopefully a vet check up will help draw some conclusions.


On the copper...even if their feed has the necessary amount in it, there may be a copper antagonist in the water, hay, etc., that prevents them from absorbing the copper in their feed. I find that my pregnant does need even more mineral supplementation, as growing their kids can really take it out of them. I supplement with copper boluses, and I have a loose mineral out all the time. 
That's great about her FAMACHA! I somehow misread your post and thought you said it was getting more pale. I'm so glad to hear that's not the case!
Have you checked her hooves? Sometimes, when my goats are a little off or less active, it's because they need some work done on their feet. Just a thought! 
Maybe fleas or lice are biting her, causing the bloody spots on her tail? Hopefully, the vet can help you get it sorted out!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Also, I have given the full recommended dose of ivermectin to my pregnant does several times, now, and haven't had a issue with it yet!


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> On the copper...even if their feed has the necessary amount in it, there may be a copper antagonist in the water, hay, etc., that prevents them from absorbing the copper in their feed. I find that my pregnant does need even more mineral supplementation, as growing their kids can really take it out of them. I supplement with copper boluses, and I have a loose mineral out all the time.
> That's great about her FAMACHA! I somehow misread your post and thought you said it was getting more pale. I'm so glad to hear that's not the case!
> Have you checked her hooves? Sometimes, when my goats are a little off or less active, it's because they need some work done on their feet. Just a thought!
> Maybe fleas or lice are biting her, causing the bloody spots on her tail? Hopefully, the vet can help you get it sorted out!


Alright awesome! I'll get the copper bolus and the Ivermectin if she needs it. We did trim their hooves last night and hopefully we will get better trimmers by this weekend to trim it better. I'll keep an eye on her the next couple of days to see if it helps.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she is past 90 days bred,you can use Ivomec. 

Do know, safeguard doesn’t work well anymore, but also must be given at larger doses for goats for it to maybe work.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> If she is past 90 days bred,you can use Ivomec.
> 
> Do know, safeguard doesn’t work well anymore, but also must be given at larger doses for goats for it to maybe work.


Okay, I do think I read something about how Safe Guard has to be given 3 times in a row for it work, but most prefer Ivermectin and Cydectin from what I read.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Update: which I know some people maybe tired of by now😅
Persephone had a pretty active day today. I think the hoof trimming did a lot for her and the weather cooled off from the rain. Her sides are bigger... The right side is about half an inch lower?? Not sure why she is lopsided. She just peed and a clear thin strand of mucus about 3 inches long came out. Now she is laying down and about every 5 minutes while breathing she will let out a very small, short and quite whiney noise and is taking somewhat deep breaths. She keeps getting up to drink more apple cider vinegar water. She seems a bit uncomfortable.. short and a kind of deep breaths then stops and moves around. and getting up to stretch- raised but and shoulder's/neck and lowering her stomach. Still nibbling on her stomach like she has been, yawning along with licking and chewing. Rubbing her head A LOT on the wood when laying down. As if she can't get a good enough scratch. And when she is up she presses it hard against the wood. Her poop is now more solid and soft. Almost the size of a dog's but sometimes it is still the normal poop for goats. Ohhh and she is gassy!!! Burping and farting like a trucker.Skin where ligaments are, VERY squishy and moveable, relaxed.I feel something like a pencil (ligaments) but when I run my fingers down it ends up being the ridge of a bone. Side Note her fur feels a lot softer than normal! 🤣 It has bit of a coarse feeling but is not like what it is in winter.
If she isn't pregnant are any of these signs/symptoms for something wrong?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

The stretching, unusual poop, and biting her sides sounds like possible parasites or intestinal discomfort. Could also be pregnancy related, but she just doesn't look far enough along to be that uncomfortable. 
Have you changed her diet at all? Is she getting lots of fresh spring grass? I had thought from your previous pictures that her poop must be a little soft, because it shouldn't really stick to their skin and leave them looking messy when it's normal. 
It would be good to get a fecal done to check for coccidia and parasites. Have you checked her for external parasites such as mites and and lice? Those can cause a goat to scratch and bite themselves a lot.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> The stretching, unusual poop, and biting her sides sounds like possible parasites or intestinal discomfort. Could also be pregnancy related, but she just doesn't look far enough along to be that uncomfortable.
> Have you changed her diet at all? Is she getting lots of fresh spring grass? I had thought from your previous pictures that her poop must be a little soft, because it shouldn't really stick to their skin and leave them looking messy when it's normal.
> It would be good to get a fecal done to check for coccidia and parasites. Have you checked her for external parasites such as mites and and lice? Those can cause a goat to scratch and bite themselves a lot.


She is bigger in videos and in person, but not as big as I have seen other pregnant goats. I have looked for lice and mites but couldn't seem to find anything. I plan to deworm her Saturday if needed, but a couple days ago she was good. I am hoping to get her in to the vet on Monday. We did change her grain for 3 days (it was something she did have before). Her poop was still fine. We have adjusted her back to her normal medicated goat feed.
The feed states, "Plus, it's enhanced with ammonium chloride for urinary tract protection, and medicated with Deccox to help prevent coccidiosis".
Could the strand of mucus be from her coming into heat? She isn't interested in the buck and he isn't interested in her, but I know that it might take time for them to get "adjusted" for it.
Also... Anything I could give her now to aid any discomfort?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Dapple_boer201 said:


> She is bigger in videos and in person, but not as big as I have seen other pregnant goats. I have looked for lice and mites but couldn't seem to find anything. I plan to deworm her Saturday if needed, but a couple days ago she was good. I am hoping to get her in to the vet on Monday. We did change her grain for 3 days (it was something she did have before). Her poop was still fine. We have adjusted her back to her normal medicated goat feed.
> The feed states, "Plus, it's enhanced with ammonium chloride for urinary tract protection, and medicated with Deccox to help prevent coccidiosis".
> Could the strand of mucus be from her coming into heat? She isn't interested in the buck and he isn't interested in her, but I know that it might take time for them to get "adjusted" for it.


The mucus could be from her coming into heat, but one of mine also has a bit of mucus from time to time while pregnant, so it's very hard to tell without knowing whether she's preggo or not!

I have never used a medicated feed, so I'm not sure how effective they are. I know that some folks on here use medicated feed AND do coccidia prevention on their kids, so I don't think the feed alone will do the trick if the goat has a heavy load of coccidia. I know that coccidia, and worms, can cause a lot of the symptoms you're mentioning. So a fecal would be good, to make sure you're targeting whatever is causing the issues.

If she's shedding her winter fur, that may cause her to be more itchy, too.

I have found that keeping my goats' copper levels up greatly reduces the amount of issues I have with external parasites. So if you give her a copper bolus, that might help her if she's dealing with some minor lice or mites.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> The mucus could be from her coming into heat, but one of mine also has a bit of mucus from time to time while pregnant, so it's very hard to tell without knowing whether she's preggo or not!
> I have never used a medicated feed, so I'm not sure how effective they are. I know that some folks on here use medicated feed AND do coccidia prevention on their kids, so I don't think the feed alone will do the trick if the goat has a heavy load of coccidia. I know that coccidia, and worms, can cause a lot of the symptoms you're mentioning. So a fecal would be good, to make sure you're targeting whatever is causing the issues.
> 
> If she's shedding her winter fur, that may cause her to be more itchy, too.
> ...


I purchased some copper bolus yesterday from the goat shop. Not sure on an arrival date. She is shedding her winter fur still. She had lost a lot of the fuzzy type in late Feb but now it is the hair. Today her fur feels more normal. I'm not sure how beneficial the feed is that they are getting, but the vet gave an ok on it when she saw her last. So, we have just used it ever since.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Dapple_boer201 said:


> I purchased some copper bolus yesterday from the goat shop. Not sure on an arrival date. She is shedding her winter fur still. She had lost a lot of the fuzzy type in late Feb but now it is the hair. Today her fur feels more normal. I'm not sure how beneficial the feed is that they are getting, but the vet gave an ok on it when she saw her last. So, we have just used it ever since.


Sounds good!
It will be fun if she pops out some cute, dappled babies and surprises us all!


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Sounds good!
> It will be fun if she pops out some cute, dappled babies and surprises us all!


Definitely!! But of course my main priority will be her health 💕 I have felt around her tail again and on both sides her tail it goes straight down the length of my thumb. I feel nothing there 🤦‍♀️ Wish I had felt for them more when I first got her.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Dapple_boer201 said:


> Definitely!! But of course my main priority will be her health 💕 I have felt around her tail again and on both sides her tail it goes straight down the length of my thumb. I feel nothing there 🤦‍♀️ Wish I had felt for them more when I first got her.


I am no good at feeling for ligs. By the time I can confidently say that they're gone, there are usually enough other signs to indicate labor.


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## JML Farms (Jan 1, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Rugrats on the right, lunch on the left.


I've been repeating this in my head ever since I read it!!!! Love it!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

JML Farms said:


> I've been repeating this in my head ever since I read it!!!! Love it!


It's catchy, isn't it? I repeated it to myself a few minutes ago, as I was just feeling the side of my doe who's due in about 10 days, to see if I could locate any baby kicks.


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

For anyone reading this discussion post I would like to give an update. Persephone was pregnant. She gave birth today, June 6th 2021 around 10:30am. (I have another discussion post talking about some weird colored discharge that happened about a month ago then a couple weeks ago. If y'all want to read it). For the past week I have been able to see the baby kicking and had taking a video it. It was very noticeable!
Anyhow, some photos below of how big her and her udder had gotten. She has poor udder attachment. Photos all within the past few days






















Lost a plug yesterday.

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Last night's udder. I noticed a change in it yesterday but it wasn't like a whole lot of a difference. It did fill quite a lot a couple weeks ago.

Now baby buckling pictures!






















We finally got our kid!! 🥳 Happy Birthday to him!!!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Yay! Thanks for the update! The kid is so cute!


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Yay! Thanks for the update! The kid is so cute!


%

Thank you! I should add that he is 14 inches tall and 9.2 lbs!! His mom is currently 24 inches at her shoulders and 26 at her rump. She is 13 months old.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Holy cow! That's a big boy!


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## Dapple_boer201 (Apr 3, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Holy cow! That's a big boy!


Haha we were thinking the same thing but figured it was normal for Boers lol


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I mean yes, it is normal. I've never raised Boers, but my dairy goats have birthed some large kids, too. But in proportion to the mom, that seems big. The single kids get to soak up all the extra nutrients, though, so they can get bigger.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very cute.


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