# Pregnancy Toxemia help



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I posted in kidding section last night about our doe who is due in 13 days <Mar 5th>having toxemia. I could use some help getting a treatment plan in place. She is a 2yo boer doe, first pregnancy.

This is what is going on:
Temp was in the normal range the times we took it.
Has been off of feed for a couple of days now, only nibbling in hay, acts hungry but also acts like it hurts to eat 
Not drinking much at all
Not wanting to stand for very long, and her right rear leg is sore and swollen, shuffles/slow on her feet
Grinding teeth
Had to bring her in last night - she couldn't handle the cold, and she is in again tonight so we can keep a close eye on her and treat her.
Started scouring this morning

What we've done:
Started her on PenG <we have another new mom that had diarrhea yesterday, and that doe responded well>
I've made energy type things in the blender with cream corn, corn syrup, cranberry juice, thiamine, tums, baking soda, etc. alternating what I use a little bit, and drenching every few hours or so.

I was able to get to TSC today, but due to bad weather, they've had trucks no show up yet, and were out of some things I'd hoped to get. 
I did get:
Calcium Gluconate 
Amino Acid Solution

I didn't get dextrose, but do have light corn syrup

They were out of B-Complex, I only have a tiny bit of injectable thiamine. So I picked up from Walgreens: Super B-Complex and B-1 vitamins, also got Ketone strips.

I am not real sure how many B-Complex tablets I should use? These are the kind I bought:
http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/na...ary-supplement-tablets/ID=prod6091533-product

The B-1 tabs are 100mg.

I'm not real sure how I should mix all of this stuff? I don't have any air tight containers, and the biggest plastic tea container I have is a 2Qt.

Any help would be appreciated.

I couldn't find any scour halt/something similar, and totally forgot to get a new bottle of pepto 

I did read on a site that I could give her some Banamine and see if that helps make her feel better? Thoughts?

EDITED TO ADD: I did worm her yesterday. We suspect this might have been caused by an unnoticed worm issue perhaps? Eyelids have been fine tho'. I did give her a small dose of pig iron late last night, figured it couldn't hurt.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I think it's possible the diarrhea is from the milk shake. I wouldn't give anything other than probios to counter that unless it continues and gets worse. The swollen leg is a sign of hypocalcemia/ preg tox.

Wasn't this the doe you were worried about being too heavy last fall? If she were mine, I'd stick to proplyene glycol, (or Nutridrench) and calcium drenching. Will she eat a leafy green alfalfa? Does your husband's horse farm have any good alfalfa?

Here's my goto article, again.
http://kinne.net/hypocal2.htm


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Tenacross said:


> I think it's possible the diarrhea is from the milk shake. I wouldn't give anything other than probios to counter that unless it continues and gets worse. The swollen leg is a sign of hypocalcemia/ preg tox.
> 
> Wasn't this the doe you were worried about being too heavy last fall? If she were mine, I'd stick to proplyene glycol, (or Nutridrench) and calcium drenching. Will she eat a leafy green alfalfa? Does your husband's horse farm have any good alfalfa?
> 
> ...


Thanks so much & Yep, same doe  
I do have propylene glycol. I have the calcium gluconate, but I have never used it before? Any idea how much I should give? 
I don't have any alfalfa except for the guinea pigs, did offer her some of it, and she nibbled but wouldn't eat it  She is still grinding teeth.

EDITED::::: sorry I just realized you added the link, thanks! I bookmarked it a long time ago and couldn't find it!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

So would the calcium gluconate be dosed the same as CMPK? BTW, next kidding season I WILL be ordering CMPK. But for now this bottle of Calcium gluconate is all I have. I was hoping TSC had the CMPK, as it was one of the main things I wanted to get, but the shelves were very empty so either they didn't have it in stock or don't carry it.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> So would the calcium gluconate be dosed the same as CMPK?


I am not sure. I have MFO. I'm not really comfortable saying this, but I would maybe try 30cc to start with calcium gluconate.

The MFO is pretty cheap.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e0780c-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Stick with the calcium gluconate for right now; here's the dosing for it: From Fiasco Farm: Calcium Gluconate dosage (1st dose)- 8 oz. given orally. Then, repeat 5-8 oz, three times a day until the doe is eating and symptoms are subsiding. (Since she is a Boer, I would continue to dose her at the 8 oz. amount.)
Banamine: 1cc/100 lbs. Yes, grinding teeth mean pain. The Banamine will also ease the gut pain, which may/may not be the reason behind the scours. 
For "Magic Drench"
1 C. Molasses
1 cup of corn oil (Has to be CORN oil, nothing else)
2 C. Karo Syrup
Mix and keep in the house as it will not pour if cold. 

Give 6-10 ounces as the last drench at bedtime in pregnancy toxemia to keep energy up and hold the doe for the night. Use 8-10 oz for a large doe. 

Magic is also good for sick animals who have gone off their feed.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Be warned that every ingredient in the "magic" kills the stomach flora so, that will have to dealt with if you use it. There are much better energy options.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Goathiker awesome to know.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Following


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Be warned that every ingredient in the "magic" kills the stomach flora so, that will have to dealt with if you use it. There are much better energy options.


Good to know Jill....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Let me do some digging, the calcium gluconate an ve used SQ. I think its 20cc every few hours but let me check, works better than drenching.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much! Her stomach is still not right - still has loose stool. It was firming up to dog poo last night, but noticed a looser stool at some point overnight. 

I gave her 60cc Propylene Glycol & 25cc of Calcium Gluconate injected - 3 different inj. sites. She did seem to rest a little easier last night, didn't hear as much teeth grinding - which has been a constant thing since this started. 
She was acting uncomfortable about an hour ago, so I gave her a little bit of banamine, and she is able to rest more at ease - even ate some snack crackers I put in her feeder. She's been drinking water off & on.
She needs to be exercised, but no way to do it right now, our weather has been nasty - freezing rain, rain, sleet and snow mix currently. 

She needs to have more propylene glycol, and calcium gluconate. I do feel she needs B-Complex but all I have are tablets. So I was going to crush some, and drench with probios as well. 

I do have the corn syrup, and amino acid so if anyone thinks I should dose her with some of that, please tell me how I should mix it. I am so unfamiliar with this stuff, never needed to use it before


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't think she had PT to start with, but hypocalcemia. The first thing they do with HC is refuse grain, followed by not wanting hay either, and with not eating in late gestation, that gives them PT. So continue treating for both


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Be warned that every ingredient in the "magic" kills the stomach flora so, that will have to dealt with if you use it. There are much better energy options.


Why would these ingredients cause this? I'm not doubting you, but would just like to know why or how this happens. This recipe for "Magic" is from a reputable source (Coni Ross, Boer Breeder), appears on websites and is even in a book I have. I'm puzzled as to why this recipe seems to be so recommended if these ingredients disrupt gut flora? It seems like that should be mentioned as a side effect.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok - It is NOT PT! as suggested, but I didn't want to rule anything out until I could test. I FINALLY did a ketone test, and it was between non existant & trace amount. 

Now the article is talking about CMPK usage, so I need to figure out how often I need to inject her with calcium gluconate. 

I did give her 30cc/10cc in 3 different inj. sites, I crushed up 3 thiamine tablets & 2 B-Complex tablets, added in powdered probios & water, and drenched her with that. Gave her a little more than recommended drench of propylene glycol. She didn't want to stand up, my son and I had to really work to get her up, but once she was up, she was okay, not shaky though a bit weak. My son walked her around for a while, and we kept her on her feet in front of the barn for a while - waiting for her to pee/ketone test.

She acts like she is hungry, but just can't bring herself to eat  I feel so bad for her. She has definitely lost weight  Babies seem to have dropped, and I can't really find her tail ligaments - but her ligs have played the disappear/reappear act.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Perhaps she would like a protein block to nibble and gnaw on. I put one in with all my pregnant does. They're a great source of extra energy. My girls love them. TSC has them- $12 in my Store. I got the idea from Onion Creek Ranch, who seems to think it helps ward off toxemia/ketosis.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Candice , i haven't read all the posts here , so disregard if someone mentioned it , but have you tried putting alfalfa pellets and anything else that might interest her in eating in a blender and making a slurpy of sorts ?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Erin! Sadly I can't get out right now, the roads are a bit bad - we've been having snow, freezing rain, sleet, rain, etc. all day. It's fun just getting through the slushy ice/snow from house to barn  Although, when I was there yesterday, I don't recall seeing the protein blocks - they are running very low on a lot of stuff thanks to not getting their trucks <due to weather>.

I normally start offering alfalfa pellets with their grain at least 4-6 weeks before they are due to kid, but last summer we started offering a little cracked corn. So naturally when I brought it up to my husband, he said not to add the alfalfa pellets, stay with the cracked corn. I think NOW he will finally listen to me, at least I hope so. 
We do feed a clover/grass mix hay, but not as much clover in it this year.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

With the slurpy , I'm thinking you can syringe little bits into there mount , sorta force feeding but not. Anything to have her gain strength to help fight this…even her hay , toss it into the blender…..maybe along with some yogurt for her tummy.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Keep doing what you are doing, but the point of the propylene glycol and calcium is to get her back eating so she can reverse this. If she is still not eating, that's not good. I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

Have you tried green leafy alfalfa?

At this point I would start drenching a pint of electrolyte water 3-4 times a day to keep her kidneys going. I would also make a slurry from alfalfa pellets and drench her that 3-4 times per day to keep her rumen going and (HOPEFULLY) reverse this downward spiral she is now in. 

I've seen that "hungry, but can't bring herself to eat" look before in a similar doe. My doe was only saved by IV fluids that served to flush her kidneys that were failing according to my vet who confirmed this with a blood test.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/milkfever/hypocalcemia.shtml Using calcium gluconate injection; they recommend 50ccs per dose (injected SQ).

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/help-downed-pregnant-goat-cant-get-up-175282/index5.html
First post on pg 5 has a recipe for homemade cmpk using human vitamins. The goat in that post is now a healthy mother.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much you all are awesome. Ok, I can't get out to the store today  She was drinking a little here and there, especially through the night, in fact, I was sleeping 10' away and she'd wake me up with slurping up water lol. 
Now that she is back outside, I don't know. I am getting ready to send hubby & my son out to check on her, and give her some more calcium, and I am going to put some of the guinea pig's alfalfa hay in the blender with some corn syrup, B vitamins and a little cranberry juice, blend it and then add some probios. I'll also have them offer her some warm water, and if she doesn't drink it, then she'll need to be drenched. I'll have them check her bucket for signs of drinking, but I did try to put everything where she could reach it. 

I will update again after dinner, prayers she gets better. Seems like something always goes amiss with goats I am anxious to see babies from. She is our special baby girl though, so it makes it very difficult to watch her not feel well


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

Praying she is doing better and for strength for y'all to help her get better.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

how are things going!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much for asking, she is showing signs of improvement!! 

Hubby and my son went out to drench her & give her calcium shots <I had to cook dinner>, they got her outside to walk for a couple of minutes, but it was raining and slippery so she didn't stay out long. 
They said she was eating some grain and digging a little bit in her hay.

When I went out a little while ago to feed, most of the feed I'd given her was gone, I think I gave her about 1 cup <cup I use holds about 1lb. of grain>. I put cracked corn next to it, but she clearly wants nothing to do with the corn. 
I put another 1 1/2lbs. of grain down for her and a handful of cheerios - she nibbled at the cheerios but didn't really eat any. 
She did dig through her hay a bit with interest this time, then laid back down. I put the bucket in front of her and she nibbled a little more. Not enough to keep her going, but it's a start 

She also took a good drink of water!

Before I came in I thought I saw a baby kick, so I put my hand on her belly, and made a loud kissing noise, and the baby was trying to kick! Did it again, and baby responded again! So adorable ♥

The mix I gave my husband to drench her with earlier was:
Amino Acid <I didn't know how much so I did a little less than 1/2 measured cup>
Light Corn Syrup
2 Super B-Complex tablets crushed <from Walgreens>
3 B-1 tabs
Cranberry juice <about 1/2 to 3/4 cup>
Mixed that in the blender, then added more probios


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Do you have any Calf Manna? It's a good source of energy, highly palatable and takes up little space in a rumen with less room due to baby crowding. Mine love it and will pick it out of the grain. I think a balanced Ca pelleted grain might be a good mix for your doe, with a little calf manna stirred in. Also, tempt her to eat with fresh foods. How about peeling an apple and seeing if she'll take those nourishing peels right out of your hand? Have you any trees she could nibble on, like the evergreens (pine, fir, spruce, etc.) but no yews (toxic)? It was eating apple tree branches in April that became the turning point in my own doe's condition 3 yrs. ago. About those protein blocks- they're hard to find in all the stores in my area. Usually they're over by the cattle minerals.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good news..!! Im glad she is showing signs of improvement!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks  

We've tried a variety of foods for her, so far nothing is very appealing. I admit, I am surprised she ate the crackers this morning, but when I put more out for her she didn't touch them  We have some kind of vine's that grow up on the trees and the goats love those leaves, but my son tried to get her to eat some and she wouldn't touch them  Normally she would go crazy over them.

Getting ready to go out and check on her, and medicate her again for the night. 

Our TSC usually has those goat/sheep protein blocks, I was actually going to get one right before the storm hit last weekend, I saw 2 of them on the floor, but got distracted with the other stuff I was getting and totally forgot. 
Hopefully the worst of the bad weather is behind us, so when I go to the store they actually are able to stock what I am looking for.

BTW, I was going to get nutri drench, and the only bottle they have looks like it's been opened :/ I meant to mention it to the girl at the register, so I may have to point that out so they can order more.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I enticed my sick goat to eat with sweet stuff: cookies, muffins, doughnuts...just a couple bites is enough to them going, and you can disguise some meds with it too! The only fruit she would eat was strawberries and bananas. I think the sugar makes em hungry...

I'm glad she's improving


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im keeping Dixie in my prayers Candice. I'm so afraid to check and see how she is doing. I hope she continues to regain her appetite and beat this. 
Your doing everything you can (( hugs ))


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

TSC carries 2 protein blocks. One is for sheep and goats, and the other is just for goats. I believe the one for sheep and goats has no copper.

There is a product called Power Punch made by Goats Prefer that is similar to Nutridrench. I was over at TSC the other day, and compared labels.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah, the block I was talking about was protein, but we offer loose minerals, although I am not a fan of the honestly... the goats do eat them well, but I plan on changing once we get through this bag <Purina Goat mineral>. Hopefully our feed store can order us something different vs. having to go elsewhere to get it.

Well, she is back to not feeling well again. Grain untouched, and didn't look like she'd done much with her hay. She's scouring again, so I think the cranberry juice & corn syrup might be the culprit, I just don't think she can handle that sweet stuff? 
So, we'll just do propylene glycol, and a drench of water/probios/b vitamins.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Good idea, give her rumen time to settle. I've used Gatorade in
The past with success to keep them hydrated. You can try that instead of the molasses for now, mixed with probios.


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## marysuire1180 (Dec 29, 2014)

I hope Dixie pulls out of her funk. Have been praying for the beautiful girl. Wal-mart has a B-Complex liquid if your in a pinch


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Yes, those are the same blocks I'm talking about. They have minerals in them, too. Are you still keeping up with the calcium? I'm not sure what all is in calcium gluconate. If it doesn't have magnesium, phosphorus, and potassium in it, too, then I think you need to try getting another product. TSC sells a product called Goats Prefer Calcium Drench that has those minerals in it. It is a CMPK type products. They had another one there the other day that was a CMPK type product, too- you have to read the labels to see if they have the minerals you're looking for in them.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Peanut is feeling better this afternoon! Looks like she ate 1/2 to 3/4 of the grain I left for her, and she ate the leaves I left for her  
My husband went out about 3pm to give her calcium shots & more b vitamins, and get her moving around. She ended up in the kids creep feeder, and was nibbling grain with the babies. 
When I came out and put her in her stall, she nibbled at her mineral, nibbled at grain <don't think she really ate any though>, and laid down to rest. Before I came inside, she was nibbling on more leaves my son got for her, and her hay. She looks like she feels better, and has a stronger voice. So I'm praying she is turning around and feeling better.

I am okay with her not eating much at one time, and not wanting to be on her feet much. I know I can get her out and get her moving off/on through the day. But the not eating at all really scared me. 
We'll give her more calcium shots and some crushed thiamine tablets later this evening, and see how she is doing.

I do worry though as it's supposed to get cold tonight, around 8 degrees, high tomorrow 17, and low tomorrow night -2. I may take her blanket out and cover her tonight. Today was really nice, we got up to 45! It was only supposed to be 35. A lot of the snow has melted, but still have a way to go before it's gone. That slushy, soupy mess is going to freeze over, and worries me, as I don't want her walking on slippery ice


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Here's a video earlier of how she was standing after being on her feet for probably 20 minutes+





Right after I took the video above, I let her in her stall


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Put her blanket on, and offer hot(ish) water with molasses and a little cayenne powder. That will warm up her insides. 

Her eating is a good sign, great job with her


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

That's an unhappy goat. Head against the wall is a sure sign, but the dancing - I've never seen that. Looks like her legs feel really wierd. Which could mean toxemia - the toxins in lymph or something flow down to the legs - or mineral problems (when I watched the video, I was think magnesium - little electric zaps in her legs because the muscle nerve signals are short-firing). I noticed she's got a nice udder filling in! 

I REALLY like CMPK because the minerals all work together. I've never used calcium injection - I've needed CMPK and it worked so I didn't try anything else. 

If you have propylene glycol/nutridrench, please give her some. It shouldn't hurt, and it very well might help. Otherwise, some molasses and/or karo syrup by mouth. She's going to need her energy because it looks like she'll kid really soon.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Candice if you can't get something where you are , if I can get it here I will send it to you , just let me know.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for the offer Laura, I appreciate it! I will definitely let you know if we need anything. 

She is no longer scouring, but she is back to not wanting to eat  I don't think she's drinking much if anything either. I gave her calcium shots, and drenched her with b-complex & thiamine tabs/probios, mixed with a little water & amino acid, then gave her 65cc of propylene glycol. I walked her up/down the walk from barn to driveway about 4-5 times, letting her take breaks in between. I made her stay up for at least 45mins, then she started to do her dance and was pretty much begging me to put her back in her stall, I felt bad, but I know she needs to be on her feet.

I was out for a while, before I came inside, I got her more vine leaves, and made her get up again. She stood and munched on the leaves for a few minutes. Then I saw her belly shaking like crazy - babies were having a party! Then her back leg acted like it wanted to give out. I wonder if babies were hitting a nerve? because she wasn't like that until they started their party.

We have to run some errands, and need to stop at the dollar general store. So I will pick her up some Gatorade while I am there. I will also look for the vitamins to make the homemade oral CMPK, so I need to find that post again with recipe.

I have a few videos but will have to post them when I get back.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Come on Peanut. Just 10 more days! 

You're doing great Candice. Keep it up. :hug:


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## Hannah21 (Jun 17, 2014)

I think it takes them a while to get interested in food,as long as she's drinking and lively,she can go without food.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Recipe from In-clover:
If neither of those products are handy, you can re-create a 30 cc CMPK dose (650 mg calcium; 500mg potassium; 150 mg phosphorus; and 96 mg magnesium) in your kitchen by going to the Supplements department of any large chain-type drugstore and buying bottles of Posture D tablets (600 mg calcium, 266 mg phosphorus, 125 units Vitamin D), Citracal tablets (315mg calcium and 200 IU of Vitamin D), Potassium tablets (500 mg), and Magnesium tablets (150 mg). Crush up the amount of each pill needed to recreate one 30cc dose of CMPK above. (To assist the reader, helpful owners have calculated the following: “½ of a 600mg tablet of Posture-D, a 315mg tablet of CitraCal, a 500mg tablet of Potassium, and ½ of a 150mg tablet of Magnesium). Serve it in a little yogurt, or add water and drench it with a syringe. (Dose 30 cc 2 times a day)

I would think you just need the Posture-D, Potassium, and Magnesium since you're injecting calcium gluconate? But then you'd have to figure out the recipe proportions without the other calcium supplements.

If you can get Calf Manna, it's worth going a little out of your way. It's super-tasty and a lot of goats will eat it when they won't eat anything else.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok, I've rewritten this 3 times lol, I tend to write books, sorry 

I am wondering something. Could 'some' of this just possibly be her being a drama queen - ouchy ouch type? Reason I ask is because I noticed when this started that she was starting to sink in really well around her tail head, her tail head is super loose, and you can barely feel ligs. 
Babies look to have dropped as well.

I am still not sure she is drinking much, so I'll put a mark on her bucket tonight that away I can fill to that mark, and give me an idea of what she's drinking, not sure why I didn't do that before! :GAAH:
She did eat most of the leaves I left for her, dug through her hay a little bit, grain untouched today, she does nibble at mineral once in a while.

We did something a little different, and praying it doesn't backfire. I took 1/2 cup of grain, soaked it in water, and blended it until it was smooth, added a little bit of probios & thiamine tablet, and drenched her with all of that. I'm hoping it'll help her rumen, give her a little energy, but the water will help keep her hydrated.

When we go out later, I'll give her some propylene glycol, and drench her with a little warm water/Gatorade.

Here are videos I took late this morning.

First one - she'd been on her feet for about 40 minutes, I'd walked her back/forth to the house 4-5x, giving her breaks in between each time. She waddles on the front end, but is weakest on the rear end. 
BTW, it takes a lot of coaxing to get her up there, I take the halter off and let her come back by herself





This is right after the babies had a party in there, her belly was bouncing... that's when her right rear leg started doing that. It's a little better this evening, but still weak on it


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

looks like it takes everything she's got to keep moving...hopefully she will have those babies soon and feel better


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I have a feeling its the babies leaning on a nerve or two….
Man i hope the few days she has left goes by quickly for her , poor thing 
I don't know if its a good thing to have her move so much or not , its like a catch twenty two….it kills me to see her like this  
I can only imagine how hard it is for you guys ..


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Sent it too soon…..i also think that maybe the little food she is eating , will keep her going till she kids , idk…..just how i feel. Something makes me think she knows how much to eat considering the amount of exercise she is getting. Probably doesn't make a stitch of sense , but its what i thought about watching the last video. 
Candice your doing everything , its clear she is cherished by you and your family so very much. Im praying for her to get through this and kid so she can be herself again .


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

That poor girl. You can clearly see she doesn't feel good at all.  Hope that she holds on long enough to kid and then feels like a million bucks.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, I feel so bad for her, and wish I could do more, I just don't know what else I can do for her.

Laura, I definitely think babies could be hitting a nerve, especially after what I saw earlier today. She was standing fine, then they had their bouncing party, and suddenly she can barely stand on that back leg.
I don't like making her walk, but I have heard if you don't get them up and moving it can damage their legs. I make her get up for medication stuff, and make her walk a little bit at least 3x a day.

I think she has at least 2 babies in there, I don't think she has 3, but with the way she is acting, you never know - she was a triplet & her mom looked like she was carrying twins. 
Of course all of our babies this year have averaged 10lbs.

She has 9 days left <it's after midnight soo... 9 days!>. I just don't know if she can do it for 9 more days.

I'm really worried that she may get too weak to position and deliver kids. I think tomorrow I'll go ahead and put a call into our vet and see what he recommends. I'm kind of thinking, if she gets any worse, then perhaps we need to consider our options - and see about inducing later this week.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

OK ---- a local feed store has CMPK gel, he wasn't sure which kind <Durvet, Vet's Plus Inc.>, but one of those <he wasn't inside where he could check>.
I have to go to town in a little while so I will stop and either get the gel, or I will go on a human vitamin hunt.

She is about the same this morning, really having a hard time getting up. Her back legs are very weak. The good news is, she's never in the same place/same position when I go out. She does turn from side to side, or changes direction - might face front of stall or back of stall. 
She finished off the leaves I gave her last night. Once things thaw out this morning I will pick her more, but she won't eat them if they are frozen. 
It is currently 6 degrees.

I gave her more calcium a little while ago <30cc>, 70cc propylene glycol, and B-Complex tabs/thiamine tabs dissolved in some amino acid & warm water. 
So far babies are still active and seem to be doing fine.

EDITED TO ADD:

A couple more videos from yesterday morning. 
Again this is before her back right leg became very weak <I definitely think a baby is on a nerve now if not before>
The walkway wasn't as slippery as it seems, just a few places, now it's way too slippery to consider bringing her out on 





She wanted to come over to me so bad


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Poor girl, how many more days till its safe to induce?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Dayna said:


> Poor girl, how many more days till its safe to induce?


She has 9 days left, and I was told anything under 10 days. I'm considering getting the meds to induce.

She did surprise me earlier, I got everyone out of the barn so I could clean <it's nice out 28, but sunny>, when I came in she was standing and talking to me in a quiet voice. I opened her door, and went to go get vine leaves. She stood by the door for a few minutes, then waddled the short distance to the last stall and laid down. Nibbled some leaves, but was shivering  Back door was open - shady side. So I cleaned a couple of stalls, put the old bedding in front of the barn, laid her blanket on top of it and persuaded to get her up and out onto the blanket. She is laying out there, hasn't made an effort to get up, has nibbled at her leaves, looks like she is enjoying the sunshine, but still very, very miserable


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

poor girl..you are doing a wonderful job with her..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok, so I've called the vet and they are going to give me the meds so we can induce. I'll be picking up dex & lute tomorrow. 

Thankfully she's not any worse tonight. She did get up and move around a couple of times, and she does switch sides when she is laying down. It's very hard getting her up, I am so afraid we're going to hurt her, but she needs to be able to get up.

Drenching her with creamed corn/propylene glycol/calcium gluconate/b vitamins/amino acid, a little bit of Gatorade and probios. She's still eating her leaves, but doesn't really want anything else.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm following along in hopes that everything goes okay. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. I can't wait to see those kids, I sure hope they are healthy and come out running.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good luck. I sure hope it all goes well for you.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Have any popcorn? it seemed to stimulate the appetite when my goats were ill. Just a random suggestion  Anyways good luck, I hope tomorrow brings you a healthier goat!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im praying along with everyone else here . Im thinking if she eats those leaves , then have a supply for her like your doing , its something.
Im worried too about hurting her getting her to get up and walk. But like we said , its a damned if your do , damned if your don't kinda thing  
It just scares me that damage may be irreversible if she exerts herself too much.
What does your vet say to do ? Im just curious. Poor poor baby 

Candice , you've got to know your doing a amazing job with all your goats , don't ever think otherwise. Give yourself a pat on the back , you deserve it


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

She's cute!

Please give her the cmpk before/when you induce. And electrolytes. Gatorade or whatever. She's struggling to do her job now, and birth is a bigger job. Lots of muscle work and nerve signaling. And probiotics. If she's still picky about food - she feels crappy. Probiotics are my first medicine for a goat with a sick tummy, although Diarsanyl did a great job the one time I used it. Goats shouldn't be unwilling to be huge piggy goats for more than a couple days!

If you and your vet agree that inducing is a good idea, then that's that. And if she's ketotic, the babies are causing that. If a nerve is getting pinched, the babies are doing that. Getting the babies out will stop all that. I've never induced.

Strange note on the video: It looks like her berries aren't normal. Is there any mucus in them? It looks like they're sort of connected, not falling like separate berries. If they're a little mucus-y, that can indicate GI distress (the mucus serves to "cushion" the GI tract).

Anyway, you're doing great. Good luck!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone ♥ She is getting worse as far as not being able to walk. It's literately 1 step, stop for a while, debate moving, take another step. If I don't make her stay up for a few minutes, she won't. 

I will get CMPK when I go out for the meds, just praying the vet doesn't over charge me for it.
She gets probios in at least 2-3 of her drenches.
Her poo was still a bit mucusy in the video from having scours. She has regular poo now, thank goodness. 

It's 3:22am, I'm getting ready to get her up and drench her again. Then I'll drench her after the kids get on the bus at 7am.

I'll talk to the vet when I go in, it was a girl from the office that called me. 

I don't want to have to induce, but I just don't see any other way of doing it. I feel, she is going to lose function of her back end, and possibly have permanent damage from not getting up. Plus, if we can save these kids.... I still feel baby movement, gives me hope ♥


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I just got up to check this thread. I will go back to sleep and check again in a couple hours. You are doing an amazing job.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wouldn't hesitate to induce at this point. Kids are in the viable range and mom's health is ultimately more important.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I agree with Karen.


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## burtfarms (Apr 4, 2013)

thoughts and prayers are with you and Peanut. Big hugs to you and your family for all that you have done, I hope and pray for a safe delivery and that she will come out of this ok.:hugs:


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## kramsay (Mar 7, 2013)

Praying for your family and Peanut!


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I agree with what harleybarley said. I wouldn't induce until you've given her the CMPK. All the minerals in it do work together, in balance. It saved my doe.

I am so hoping that everything gets better. Has your vet said anything about her condition?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

You're treating the heck out of her, she's getting worse, you're in the safe time range to induce - and you've consulted a vet who agrees to induce. I've never induced, but I would in that circumstance. I would just really like to get those minerals on board first. But you're doing a great job, if that doesn't agree with your instincts, ignore me. 

CMPK is not rx, except that I think it's off-label, so vet approval is proper. You can get the actual stuff at many farm stores in the cow section for about $5. There's also M.F.O. same basic stuff but liquid (not as bad tasting). The magnesium is supposed to balance the calcium and protect the muscles, especially the heart, from a calcium overdose creating a Ca:Mg imbalance, and Potassium is an electrolyte. I've used milk of magnesia with tums (although MoM is a laxative) for udder edema with success, too, although magnesium vitamins are better because they aren't a laxative. With CMPK, you give a goat dose - whatever the cow dose is, it's for a 1000-2000 lb animal. Since you're giving calcium gluconate, use the lower dose. Divide 2000 lbs by Peanut's approximate weight, say she's 200 - she's 1/10th of a cow (2000/200), so she'd get 1/10th of a cow dose. For the caulk tube stuff, the dose is 15-30 ccs (use 15cc) per 100 lbs. For M.F.O. it's 25-50 mL per 100 lbs.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sending good thoughts!!!! and Prayers!!!


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

Prayers - good wishes


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, well, we've started the process to induce her. Gave her Dex at 1pm <1 1/2 hours ago>, and will give Lute later this afternoon. 
I tried to locate CMPK near the vet's office, but no success. I know the feed store in town has it, so I am going to pick it up. Just waiting now for our feed store to call us. Our feed hasn't come in and they are supposed to be checking to find out why/when to expect it. Praying today. Otherwise I have to get a bag of very similar feed from TSC... I don't want to have to do that. Thankfully we feed something pretty much identical to Noble Goat pellets.
Just something else to stress over  Don't get me started on our hay/bedding shortage. This darn weather  Thankfully, we can go get square bales any time we need them, but we really need a roll bale to put in the girls shelter in the main pen. Thankfully the weather will improve starting this weekend.

BTW, I meant to ask, I've seen people mention that TSC carries CMPK, but I can't find it on their website at all?


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

They have a product called "Calcium Drench" by goats prefer. It is not called CMPK, but I read the label and it contains all the minerals except for phosphorus. I have also seen something made by Durvet that has a name similar to CMPK, but is different. A good thing to do is to write down the minerals you need, so you can check product labels.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I keep checking back, any updates?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm so sorry you lost Peanut. My prayers are with you. I'm posting a link here in case anyone else comes here to check like I did.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f197/inducing-176039/


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am sad to report, it is not good, and Peanut is no longer with us  I am beyond heartbroken ♥ I posted about it just a short while ago in the kidding section topic 'Inducing' I am sorry I should have also posted here. 

Please pray for my kids, especially my son, he loved her dearly, and even though he says he is okay, I know he's crushed. The shivering I had been observing wasn't from her being cold, it was septic shock  I just didn't know... never had an animal so sick before. 

She was and always will be our baby girl, I honestly don't know how I am going to go to the barn in the coming days and not see her there.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I am so sorry. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I am so sorry!!! :sad:


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## sweetlifegoats (Jan 24, 2014)

So so sorry for your loss. You did such a good job trying to save her. I wish you and your kids the best. Hugs and prayers.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh my, I am so terribly sorry for you and your family. Just remember that you tried so hard, and Peanut knew that.


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## marysuire1180 (Dec 29, 2014)

Omg i just seen this my phone took a burp im so sorry for your loss


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