# Estimating Adult size



## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

Aloha
I am not actually new to goats, but my prior experience with them was casually with adults that were mostly kept as companion animals for horses, and helping an overwhelmed meat goat farm to raise occasional kids that needed hand raising. In the former, always adults... And the latter once they were weaned they went back out to pasture to grow up and eventually get invited to someone's dinner. 
A little over a year ago, some of my "adventure buddies" were starting a hiking tour business and I got the bright idea of using pack goats on it, since some of the terrain can be challenging on its own, let alone with all the gear for certain things. And I just happened upon a rescue situation which ended up with me bottle raising a little orphan doeling from a rather barbaric situation: the Dam died giving birth to the twin, and the family didn't want to bottle raise so they were going to toss her to their hunting dogs...my friend, their neighbor, heard about it and I ran down and got her. And after some vet assistance (she had some trouble having not gotten colostrum and having a secondary infection, being super weak and needing several days of tube feedings) and slow start I was bottle raising my now Mascot "Moesha:the Blaque Unicorm"

It's been one of the most rewarding and frustrating (at times) experiences I've ever had, and there have been so many misadventures already. Moesha decided he definitely takes after me by being a magnet (in no small way) for all manner of peculiar happenings. It's never a dull moment when the clearly magical black unicorn-goat is around. 

In all my research on packing, I understand that taller and larger goats are preferred, but this isn't the direction Moesha is taking. I feel like she may have been stunted by her illnesses as a baby, but I also suspect she wasn't going to be a large goat to begin with as her mother, I am told, was a small feral (mostly Spanish) goat from off our mountains. Her sire was most likely a large Boer (you can see the boer influence in her, she is "STURDY" and thicker bodied than the goats that came from the dairy, stockier, and has long banana/airplane ears. She is just on the short side... At about a year old she is around the size of a big Adult Labrador (which she often gets mistaken for initially by other hikers)

:whatgoat:
Anyway, my main question, because this is something just outside of my experience, is just how much do goats grow between yearling stage and maturity? 

I'm not at all concerned with her ability to pack or her enthusiasm (she LOVES hiking!) and because the kind of distances and amounts of gear she needs to carry is pretty modest. But she has out grown her initial training dog packs and I was thinking of what sizes she will need in the future. 

I am also curious how my others will turn out. Because they come from such different backgrounds. The Sable Wether (Ziggy-Olaf) I originally bought from the dairy to be her hiking companion has a growth spurt about 2 months ago and is now EASILY twice Moesha's size. Unfortunately, I dont think hiking will be in his future as he is somewhat "special needs" (I think they may have "baked his noodle" when he was being disbudded, because he is just kind of "not all there" and his lack of basic coordination, while extremely comical, is probably not well suited to razor thin ridges with 3000 foot vertical drops.) and the Alpine Doeling I got to replace him (Burlesque), while being the daughter of the largest milk goat at the dairy, is EXTREMELY refined and feminine, almost exaggeratedly so, and seems to be significantly smaller than the Sable was. I know they are different breeds, and wethers get larger, but I am suspecting she may stay on smaller side just by how feminine and refined she is (but maybe she will have a late growth kick? she is about 3 months younger than Moesha and Ziggy.)

I also have a 2 year old Nubian Ibex/Feral goat hybrid that I also rescued, who is very petite and looks like a small deer... (And due to give birth ANY TIME NOW... Feels like she's been pregnant forever) and she is half way between Moesha and Burlesque in the size zone, I am thinking she is going to stay very small. 

Anyway this is my first time with goats in their adolescent stages, so I am just curious how much more development there is to expect. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and ideas.


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## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

This photo doesn't really capture the size difference between these two (who have the same birthday btw. Both are yearlings)


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## cdorsett (Mar 8, 2015)

Which one is the sable


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## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

The Sable (Ziggy) is the 170lb (about 34" at the wither)Sundgau yearling.
Moesha is like HALF his size, about 25" at the shoulder and around 90lbs


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## wyomingtrapper (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm not really but a novice at this, but just with my experience with my goats in the mountains, I think disposition and work ethic will trump size. Longer legged goats can probably cover more distance without tiring than short legged goats, because with a longer stride they cover more distance per step. That being said, I expect some can share experiences with a short goat that could out pace the long legged ones. Naturally, bigger should be able to carry more, but like people, relative strength and endurance varies from animal to animal.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

I've no personal experience mountain packing, but from my observations of my goats.

If she's stocky and strong, I see no reason she can't do a great job. In fact she sounds like she's got the build for it. You'd be surprised at her strength! 

She will still grow at this age. Her bone structure still has to set, and she will fill out and muscle up. The feral side will give her agility as well, which is all to the good. If she has the will to work, and can keep up, her size will not hold her back. Just load her carefully proportionate to her size and abilities.

I have a herd of dairy goats, and one odd little tiny, stocky, half feral. She's 3 years old so fully grown, and almost exactly the same size as your Moesha is now. Maybe a bit shorter, but the same weight.

If I want a goat to carry something for me, then in spite of her stubborn streak I use her rather than any of the larger goats.

Reason is she is so strong. I once discovered to my detriment that she can drag me along the ground at a fair clip. I was leading her at night and she startled at a 'killer' tree and ran, dragging me because I didn't want to let her go running away in the dark ... very unpleasant when brambles become involved by the way.

Although she is half the size of all my other goats, she is much stronger. If Miss can drag my 45 kilo weight 20 yards at a fast walk, your small stocky girl should be able to be a good packer.


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## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

Thanks guys for the input!
I am not at all concerned about Moesha's strength, endurance or work ethic. She has been the best accident... She has been hiking since she was 5 days old when she took on a 6 mile somewhat technical trail. I kept thinking I would have to just pick her up and carry her at some point but she just trucks along. That's who she has been ever since. 
When she was 3 months old she did the infamous NaPali coast hike with me carying some water and garbage we found along the trail... It's her favorite activity. She sees her little doggy pack (which she has now outgrown) and gets all excited. 

You can't tell in the photos, but you can definitely FEEL the difference between her and my other goats. The two I got from the dairy (the Sable wether and the Alpine doeling), and to a lesser extent my Ibex hybrid are like petting a greyhound, they are pretty bony and sinewy... There are definite bones jutting out everywhere. When you pet Moesha, she feels very fleshed out and muscular, like petting a Labrador. Like my ex would say "I like her; she's STURDY!"

Although she isn't quite as "sturdy" as those stocky little Pygmies I just rescued... Those are "tiny tanks".

Her ability to pack isn't an area of concern, most if the hikes we do are between 2 and 6 miles, and she so far isn't carying much more than a couple bottles of water, some snacks and a mini towel, and maybe some dry clothes on waterfall days. Her job isn't especially demanding. 

just what I am curious about is how much more "expanding" is likely for her (and the others) are likely to do. The reason I am curious is that in the pasture where I lease space there are several meat and boarded pet goats, one of the does there I bottle raised and she has just been breeding for the past few years. When I gave her back to the owner as a weanling she was a certain size, and I've seen her over the last few years acquire more and more girth and width. I remember as a yearling she jumped into my car about the size Moesha is now, and if you saw how BIG this boer goat is (in spite of her short legs) I am just wondering if Moesha is likely to fill out like that, or stay about the size of a lab. 

Mostly I am just curious what kind of size packs to invest in both now and later on. But also I am curious about BURLESQUE my super petite Alpine doe, I am wondering if there is going to be a second growth spurt on her like ZIGGY had (where he went from being just about Moesha's size to double that in about 3 weeks!) I mean ultimately they will be what they are going to be... But I've just realized I never managed the "teenager" stage before. It's kind of an adventure!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

These two black and tans are full sisters. One is a yearling and the other a 2 year old, just to give you an idea of how much more they grow.


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## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

@Goathiker
That is AWESOME! 
Thank you so much for such a great visual. I think that helps me with figuring out where Burlesque will end up, as well as Moesha! I'm glad to know there is a significant amount of size left to happen. Especially because Burlesque is smaller than I had been anticipating... Of corse on the other hand, WOW if they change that much between 1 and 2 years, Ziggy is going to be a freaking pony when he's done! (Pity he is kind of a disaster when in motion)

Btw I LOVE the Black and Tans! I am planning on breedings girls to try and get some to match my dogs!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The bucklings do grow faster the first year. They don't change quite as much. Rule of thumb is that a 50 lb. 6 month old will mature to 200 lbs.


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