# After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic heavy



## jglfainters (Jan 10, 2011)

She had 2 beautiful kids this year. So, the story is that in 2009 Fira went into labor early. It was my first real kidding season and my first difficult birth. Fira was having contractions all day. I had a bad feeling about how things were going but I didn't trust myself since it was my first season. She pushed for way too long with absolutely nothing happening. I tried to go in but I couldn't really figure out what I was dealing with and couldn't get a hold of anything.

We called the vet out and he didn't make it out until later that afternoon. By then, Fira had actually given up and quit pushing. The vet was able to go in with me holding her and after much effort and poor Fira in quite a lot of pain, he pulled out a malformed baby. Then pulled another stillborn baby.

Both babies were very very tiny. The vet (who doesn't like the smaller breeds of goats anyway) told me that Fira was too small inside to kid properly and that I should never breed her because she would not be able to have normal babies and kid without assistance. He said she was plenty big enough but that her uterus/canal/pelvis was way too small.

Fira had a tough recovery after the awful delivery and needless to say I was totally traumatized after the vets rough handling of Fira and the situation. I was super bummed as Fira was one of my favorite does and I really wanted kids from her.

After talking to some experienced goat friends, pretty much everyone told me to give her one more chance. That the malformed/mummified baby was probably what had caused all the problems and that she might be fine kidding despite what the vet had said.

So, we decided to breed Fira this year and that it would be her make it or break it year. I have been soooooo stressed waiting for her to kid, thinking of all the scenarios that could happen and how to handle them.

Well, Fira kidded early this morning when I wasn't even there and apparently had no problems. The kids look healthy and Fira is in good spirits and being a great mom. I couldn't be happier!!

Without further ado...

Zanna - White with black, speckled ear, brown eyes, and a lot smaller than brother, and very very furry! 

































and Drake - white with black, blue/marbled eyes for now, good coat

















babies together


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

All four kids are adorable! I am glad that you gave Fria a second chance and had such wonderful results! :stars:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Gorgeous kids, all of them, and great pics too! Good for Fira!

Jan


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

It took me minute to get that... I was like, "Four! There are only two!" Then I realized you meant the human kids. I had a "face-desk" moment.

I'm glad you gave her a second chance. We rely on vets and expect them to know what they are talking about....but in many cases the best they can do is to hazard guesses. In worse scenarios, they are completely ignorant. It is always a good idea to seek a second opinion, especially from goat-knowledgeable breeders who have a lot of experience. They are generally ten times more able to help you with a million different things than a vet simply because vets honestly don't have enough goat experience because they haven't had many goat clients up until recently as they have gotten more popular. Often times goat owners are left to fend for themselves.

Just look at the off label use of so many products intended for other livestock. We use Ivomec injectable, debate on wether to inject or give it orally and there are several opinions on dosages. We use Sulmet for cocci which is certainly not meant for goats and has to have an off label dosages, we alter dosages and use horse wormer, alter amounts and use copper boluses for cattle,etc. That just tells you that there are simply not enough goat specific products for a myriad of issues they have or can have all of the time because the veterinary community just hasn't put much effort into it. And I honestly believe you can't just use the sheep products, because goats are not sheep. And too many vets assume they are close enough that you can just treat them exactly the same, sometimes to disastrous results.

I'm dealing with a similar issue this year. I was given a beautiful doe this fall when I purchased a doeling from a farm. The doe had severaly crooked legs and was born and raised on the farm. Her family did not, so I wondered if it was a fluke. But the breeders told me her first kids had died of white muscle disease and I automatically suspected that their goats had a selenium deficiency (can also cause weak, crooked legs.) Their vet told them the kids had white muscle and one contracted aspiration pnuemonia because of it. She then told them they should never breed the goat again, because they gave her a BoSe shot once a year and the kids had gotten some at birth. Therefore she deduced that none of them should have been deficient, so there must be something wrong with the doe's reproductive organs and she wasn't able to provide the kids with the proper nutrients in utero. Now the second kid lived to be over two months old when it died and was healthy acting up til that point. I honestly believe that their vet is a moron and that the doe was deficient regardless of the BoSe because of her diet and supplementation. Her legs have straightened quite a bit since I've had her (although they will always be crooked as she was allowed to grow up with the deficiency) and I honestly think she'll give me healthy kids....other breeder's agree as did a vet I talked to who basically said the other vet was insane.


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

The babies are adorable! So glad you got some nice kids after the experience last year.


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## DebMc (Dec 11, 2009)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Congrats! :balloons: Beautiful kids! I  that first pic of Zanna, and the one where she's resting on your daughter's lap. Your two-legged kids are pretty cute, too. :wink:

Deb Mc


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Wow! Beautiful.. what a great story! I'm so glad she did SO well!


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

I love the pic of your daughter kissing the doeling.  Congrats!!! Their wonderful!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Awww congrats! :stars: Yay Fira! They are beautiful - all four! :greengrin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Aww...how adorable a huge congrats... :thumb: :hi5:


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

The vet didn't show up for hours later? Really? Are you going to use him again?

When Bailey had trouble, my vet, who had just gotten home from the airport from a cross-country trip said he could come to me, or I could come to him. I decided to go to him since he lived close to the vet hospital. He was obviously exhausted, but did his best to save her and the baby. Took him a long time to turn the baby and afterward he tried for at least 10-15 minutes to revive the kid. Unfortunately he couldn't save him but Bailey survived and is my best milker right now.

This vet is the 'goat vet' in the area and he always seemed abrupt (or shy, not sure which) but I realized how dedicated he was when he worked so hard on my girl and her kid. I would definitely use him again. He told me that he was very sorry, that the kid was just too big, but that if I wanted to breed her again it would probably be fine b/c she was likely to have multiples and they would be smaller. I think if my vet had been so abrupt after I lost my first kid I would not want to use him again. Esp if he didn't like the smaller breeds - they are getting more popular b/c people who don't have a huge farm want livestock so he should get with the times. JMO of course.


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## Oakmarsh Nigerians (Mar 12, 2011)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Too cute, all of the kids! Congrats!


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## jglfainters (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

Thanks for the stories and support! It's been strange getting used to the fact that I have to rely on myself more than my vet!

The vet that we used for Fira back in '09 was a country vet. We lived in a small agricultural town at the time and they were the only vet so I didn't have much choice. We've moved to the city recently and now we are on the hunt for a good vet. I have a great vet that deals with dystocia's in goats. I haven't had to use them as our kiddings went so well this year but I had them "on call" just in case. I'm not sure how much regular vet work they do for goats though. They are mostly a horse vet.

Other than them, I met one other vet that was out working on the horses and llamas at the ranch where my goats are currently residing. She seemed okay. She said she enjoys working with goats, but she did mention that she doesn't understand why people would want to breed goats with "genetic issues" like fainters :roll:

I'm still hoping to find a vet that is great with goats and also likes my goats in particular.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: After the vet told me I should never breed Fira...pic he*

What cuties! Congrats on a good delivery! :wink:


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