# Bovi Sera, Bo-Se, and Nutri-Drench



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

What is the best? What Bovi-Sera do? What is a MUST HAVE?


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Bo-Se is a selenium injection, usually given to does 6 weeks before kidding... it's for any goat that needs a selenium boost. Nutri Drench is a mix of vitamins and glycerol to provide a quick source of energy. I prefer to use molasses and acv, the drench can irritate their throat. It's mostly used for weak kids and moms after birth.

I'm not sure on the bovi sera, but I hope this helps some!


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Bo-Se is a selenium injection, usually given to does 6 weeks before kidding... it's for any goat that needs a selenium boost. Nutri Drench is a mix of vitamins and glycerol to provide a quick source of energy. I prefer to use molasses and acv, the drench can irritate their throat. It's mostly used for weak kids and moms after birth.
> 
> I'm not sure on the bovi sera, but I hope this helps some!


what do you do with the acv and molasses? And is that all you use?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You do need BoSe in Ohio. You have to get that from a vet. I don't keep the other 2 on hand.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Hoe much does Bo-Se normally cost?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Nutri drench doesn't hurt their throats. It's awesome stuff got goats who are weak or feeling unthrifty.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Bovi-Sera helps with boosting the immune system. It is an injectable that needs refrigerated. 
I have had some luck with it when a goat has a mild cough and runny nose (not a major runny nose). I give 10 cc sq for 2 or 3 days to an adult goat and it seems to clear up the problem. 

Some people use it, others, not. 

Molasses, helps boost a weak goat. If I have a newborn not real active, I will dip a finger in the molasses and poke it in their mouth. It gives them an energy boost. Some adult goats like it in water.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can't remember cost on the BoSe.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Bo-Se is a selenium injection, usually given to does 6 weeks before kidding... it's for any goat that needs a selenium boost. Nutri Drench is a mix of vitamins and glycerol to provide a quick source of energy. I prefer to use molasses and acv, the drench can irritate their throat. It's mostly used for weak kids and moms after birth.
> 
> I'm not sure on the bovi sera, but I hope this helps some!


I was told the same thing with nutra drench, so I do have it on hand but will only give to very weak kids threw tube feeding.
Bose I got for $30 but can't find my bottle to tell you how many ml it holds, but it's a good size lol


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Nutra Drench is WELL WORTH keeping on hand. It is the equivalent of an epi pen for metabolic crisis. If the goat is down, Nutra Drench can get them enough energy to survive while you figure out the problem and fix it. In toxemia-type cases, I think the form of energy in Nutri Drench is more bio-available than actual sugars. I made some mistakes early on, and I think Nutra Drench is the only reason my goat survived.

Bovi Sera is effective against the labeled pathogens, yet it's not an antibiotic, so it can't create antibiotic resistance. It's effective in certain programs that prohibit antibiotic use, and may be preferable in a milking doe. I think it has 21 day meat withdrawal but no milk withdrawal period. But it's not labeled for goats, and it is labeled as a risk for anaphylactic shock. I would not recommend it if you don't have epinephrine (which is rx). 10 ccs is a HUGE injection, and it leaves injection site abnormalities. Goat Serum is more expensive but made for goats. I'd still worry about anaphylaxis.

BoSe is effective and worthwhile in deficient areas, but rx-only. I have tried to over-the-counter gel and it just doesn't work as well.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I believe Nutradrench is made with prop. glycol which does burn the throat in goats.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Ok I was told to avoid using nutra drench on newborns, because it would prevent nursing. I've used it on adults with no issues...but maybe it doesn't burn, I don't know! 

If you can't get the drench, you can mix corn syrup, molasses and acv together and drench it. This will provide a quick source of energy. Some people suggested adding a pinch of loose minerals or a vitamin paste to it as well...we call it Magic Syrup around here.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

What is acv?


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Well if Nutri-drench cost $20 for a pint and I have 2 gallons of ACV All I need is Molasses and corn syrup which is pretty cheap and I can make more with it. So I will go the magic syrup way. Does anyone have a ratio?


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

top_goat said:


> What is acv?


ACV is apple cider vinegar.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Sether55 said:


> ACV is apple cider vinegar.


Of course! Thanks!

I'd read that "Braggs" is highly recommended...but it's also hard to find in my area. Is "any old cider vinegar" adequate, or should I hold out for Braggs? Does anyone know a good mail order source on Braggs?

Thanks!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Sorry I had the ingredients mixed up! Magic is 1 part molasses, 1 part corn oil and 2 parts karo syrup. Acv can be added to this as well..warm slightly and feed 20ccs 3x a day, or as needed (for adult goats). Then you'll want Bose, because Ohio is apparently selenium-deficient.

Top goat, any raw acv will do..as long as it contains the "mother" (whatever it's called )


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I've given nutri drench to newborns it's amazing stuff. I now have goat aid an it's not as good in my opinion.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

What is the dosages of Bo-Se to pregnant does 6 weeks before kidding, and new borns.
Do I give the new moms more after they kid.
Also, do I give Bo-Se to the kid the day of its birth? 
Thanks


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## SerenitySquare (Jun 28, 2014)

Check around for the Braggs you would be surprised how popular it is getting. I have seen it even in Walmarts and of course most health food stores carry it. Also if you have a mennonite or Amish community near by thier stores always have it. 
Heinz makes one too with the mother if you cannot find Braggs.


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## Brink4 (Apr 29, 2013)

Nutridrench-I personally love to use it when they need a pick me up. My goats gobble it down with no issues. I keep it on hand.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Sether55 said:


> What is the dosages of Bo-Se to pregnant does 6 weeks before kidding, and new borns.
> Do I give the new moms more after they kid.
> Also, do I give Bo-Se to the kid the day of its birth?
> Thanks


BoSe is 1cc per 40lbs

Also only give if you know you are in a selenium deficient area. Selenium toxicity can not be reversed and will cause death.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

StaceyRosado said:


> BoSe is 1cc per 40lbs
> 
> Also only give if you know you are in a selenium deficient area. Selenium toxicity can not be reversed and will cause death.


My county has .452 selenium.
What do you do for a kid though who weighs 6 lbs? When do you give it (the day of birth???) and when do you give it again? Do you give it to your doe the day she kids?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need it. Give 1/4 to 1/2 cc. I give mine the day after birth unless I see a need to give it day of birth. I give the doe a shot 4 weeks prior to kidding.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Ok thanks1 I was mistaken it is 0.100 and 0.425 selenium.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

My biggest doe is 190 so she needs about 4.75cc. So when getting some I will round up to 5. Should i just say 5cc for each goat? Then I will have extra after Im done.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

BoSe is rx, so you should follow your vet's recommendations. But ask your vet about doing smaller doses more often. It impacts copper absorption, so it you copper bolus more than twice a year (or whatever frequency your vet recommends), it *might* make sense to do BoSe on the same schedule.

I give 1/2 cc to newborns, but that's why my vet recommends for my area. If your vet didn't give instructions with the rx, it's okay to call them back and ask. I give it first day if the kid has any issues.

Magic (the molasses corn syrup blend) is cheap and easy and sounds more natural than nutridrench. But propylene glycol, as gnarly as it sounds, is different from sugars - it's a form that can be absorbed in certain cases where sugars can't be absorbed well. If the goat is down, like in ketosis, I would rather have nutridrench on hand. Plus, you can keep it in the barn and just squirt it in before you run to get emergency supplies or call the vet.

I have given nutridrench to newborns who don't seem to have the energy to get started, and they nurse just fine. Don't underestimate the piggy power of a baby goat. If they find out milk is in those dangly things, they will drink it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get a bottle of it from the vet. Selenium is one of those that you don't want to round up.


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## RaineyDayFarms (Oct 10, 2013)

Not to derail the thread. How do you find if your area is deficient? 
I got a bottle of BoSe from work just in case. I thought it would be a good thing to have on hand. My manager let me have it at cost, so it was about 18.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

BoSe can be given orally to newborns within their first 12 hours of birth.
1/4cc for Nigerians ( smaller breeds ) and 1/2cc for Alpines ( bigger breeds )


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

I talked to my vet and he gave me Bo-Se. I am not going to round up, it will be exact but do you guys think it's ok to give it to them 7 weeks before? (in case they kid earlier than expected)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sure. That is fine. The BoSe is really for the mom. It doesn't transfer to the kids well. I still have to do BoSe when they are born.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

RaineyDayFarms said:


> Not to derail the thread. How do you find if your area is deficient?


You can look it up on the internet. Personally, I think a goat herder should let their goats tell them if they are deficient. If you are having difficult births, does not pushing out multiples, placentas not being expelled in a timely fashion, weak newborns who won't suck, or have wobbly/crooked legs and are generally sluggish, then you should be supplementing selenium.

If your does kid easily, without complications, and your newborns jump right up and bounce off walls, fill their bellies and sleep like they are supposed to, then I wouldn't fix what isn't broken. Despite what you read.

BoSe is actually a low dose of selenium. 1mg/ml. There are dietary ways to supplement as well as pastes, etc. You need to figure out what works for you and your management. I know that I need to supplement and my kiddings have gone much better since I've started supplementing. But I'm still working out the best system. I follow a dairy goat list and there is a lady who gives her does 6cc of BoSe twice during pregnancy. That is what she has found to be her proper dose of BoSe. I'm scared to do that BTW. She now feeds a feed that has 0.9 ppm selenium to her does and doesn't use BoSe. She says if you are getting close to too much selenium, the goats will get teary eyed and go off feed temporarily. I only mention this to show that some experienced breeders have really pushed the envelope in order to address their selenium deficiencies. She lives in a very wet part of western Canada.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

^^ but why would you want to wait until there are difficult births and weak unhealthy newborns? I think I'd rather prevent those situations, instead of having to fix the problem later on. Internet selenium maps are pretty accurate when it comes to selenium levels...

That's how I feel about it anyways..


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

canyontrailgoats said:


> ^^ but why would you want to wait until there are difficult births and weak unhealthy newborns? I think I'd rather prevent those situations, instead of having to fix the problem later on. Internet selenium maps are pretty accurate when it comes to selenium levels...
> 
> That's how I feel about it anyways..


I think because.there.is such a fine line on enough and too much selenium.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

canyontrailgoats said:


> ^^ but why would you want to wait until there are difficult births and weak unhealthy newborns? I think I'd rather prevent those situations, instead of having to fix the problem later on. Internet selenium maps are pretty accurate when it comes to selenium levels...
> That's how I feel about it anyways..


I see what you are saying and I don't totally disagree. If you are a new breeder and have a strong hunch you are in a deficient area, than it makes sense to do something, but,

It would depend on the situation. *If* , for example, you bought some goats from your neighbor, who had beautiful awesome goats, and they said "we give 4cc of BoSe before they are bred and 30 days before they kid", then it would make sense to do the same. At least to start out. But if you have raised goats for years and never had any problems, don't even know what BoSe is, then why would you care what some government agency says about selenium in your area or what you read on The Goat Spot? Ask most breeders in Texas about selenium and they really won't have any idea what to say about it, other than "be careful, I heard BoSe can abort them".

Likewise, someone who gives 3cc of Bose twice a year might still have problems and need to give more. Is the map going to tell you your dose or management of selenium? The problem is 1. relying on the map when selenium can vary in the same county. and 2. relying on what works for someone who lives in a different area with different management.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Ah, ok I think I get what you mean. It makes more sense now...


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Tenacross said:


> It would depend on the situation. *If* , for example, you bought some goats from your neighbor, who had beautiful awesome goats, and they said "we give 4cc of BoSe before they are bred and 30 days before they kid", then it would make sense to do the same. At least to start out.
> 
> Likewise, someone who gives 3cc of Bose twice a year might still have problems and need to give more. Is the map going to tell you your dose or management of selenium? The problem is 1. relying on the map when selenium can vary in the same county. and 2. relying on what works for someone who lives in a different area with different management.


I think newbies should buy the management system as much as the goat. The breeder selected the goats to keep and breed because those goats worked well in their system.

But your vet should be telling you the correct amount of BoSe to use* for your location*. That's why it's a prescription item - so it's dispensed with expert advice on the proper way to use it.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

harleybarley said:


> But your vet should be telling you the correct amount of BoSe to use* for your location*. That's why it's a prescription item - so it's dispensed with expert advice on the proper way to use it.


You would think your vet should be able to give you a dose to start out with. It would likely be on the conservative side and that would probably be a good thing. As for, "for your location", unless the vet raises goats, that is going to be "hit or miss".


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Everything is hit and miss when it comes to vets, unless they happen to raise goats like Tenacross said.


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

I think that if you're in doubt, you should contact your agricultural extension office. They usually have detailed information about your specific area (more than most vets) and any mineral deficiencies.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

And that only works if the goats are living off the actual land and not getting hay from anywhere else. You will need to know the mineral content of the location where it's grown


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

That's true, too.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

As far as evaluating your own forage/grazing, I would think nothing would be as beneficial as a soil test. contact your ag agent for forms, bags, etc. Soil tests aren't that expensive, depending on what you ask for. 

As far as hay, I would think asking the farmer who grew it for information (does he test? How did his fields fare with specific focus on selenium...) Just a thought.


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