# BuhBYE Cap'n Pike!



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

This handsome devil head butted me in the abdomen Monday morning. Without warning.

I know, I know, Never trust a buck. And I don't. I didn't. I was standing behind him, he knew I was there, and he jump up, twisted/twirled around, and SLAM!!!! Right in my bladder.

I peed blood for a couple hours. It was not glorious. My abdomen is black and blue. And yes, I did see my doctor yesterday for an unrelated issue and he checked me out.

I was going to put him down. For me, keeping bucks is about communication. TELL me you're going to challenge me, head butt me, etc. Give me a sign. Put a ruff up. Snort. Paw the ground. Something, anything. So we can communicate.

My friend decided to see if a change of scenery might calm him down. So far its a no go. He has does to breed but instead of doing that he's head butting trees. He's in good health, a good weight. Feet look good, eyelid color nice. On a good schedule for Cylence (we have plenty of topical parasites here).

I've had Pike for... 3-4 years, since a kid anyway. He was NOT bottle raised. He's always been gentle as a lamb with both humans and goats (even goat kids, so gentle and sweet when he plays with them). So this was quite a surprise. He's from a very nice/gentle line of bucks. Its one of the reasons I chose him as my main stud muffin.

I had to put him in a pig trap while waiting for my friend to come pick him up. NOTHING else would hold him. He was going under and over fences. I put him in a chain link dog kennel and he LIFTED IT UP from the ground and went under it. I wouldn't have belived it if I'd not seen it with my own eyes. A nigi. What a crazy dude.

Anyone else had this happen? Any ideas why it would happen? Its like he just snapped. And breeding season is winding down, he's been mounting the does less, peeing less, acting less bucky... so not the height of rut for him (we are in Hawaii our seasons are different than mainland). Also he's never been handled aggressively, no whacking or hitting. Nothing like that. After he butted me I did use the hose to keep him away from me while moving the pig trap to hold him till my friend could get here, but thats the extent of aggressive handling.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Oh my. Im so sorry you got hurt. I hope you are ok. Im glad you went to the Dr. 
I have not had that happen to me. Alot of my female friends havd warned me about their bucks when they are older than 3..usually turning 4. They change. The Bucks turn mean. Have less tolerance for being handled. They are warning me so I wont get hurt. I dont know why, but it seems to be true.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Plain and simple hormones. At around 3 to 4 years old, hormones seem to kick into overdrive. They become big jerks. Sorry you were hurt.


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

What a pity that this happened to you and wish you good health. 

We see it's time for the bucks and he wanted to become the leader in the herd. 

Personally, I refer to back so if the back starts to show strength, then I'm him to the ground like a calf at a Rodeo, buck understands my power and begging for mercy in a thin voice.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Rut? Pain? But, if there is room in the Freezer Camp, I guess you have to put bucks in there anyway, just chose with sense!


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Plain and simple hormones. At around 3 to 4 years old, hormones seem to kick into overdrive. They become big jerks. Sorry you were hurt.


Ah ha! The boys I rescued and bottle fed are getting testy and they are both turning three. Even the wether tries to butt my hand away during feeding (not the usual nudge but took a chunk out of the back of my hand). I'm glad someone brought this up. All of my boys have been new kids or very young when they came here. I need to be more aware of my surroundings.


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

Before I get beat up over testosterone I wanted to share this screenshot.


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

Strong morale, determination, self-confidence and masculinity are directly dependent on the amount of testosterone in the blood.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

He is in rut plain and simple. Bucks are a handful. Clyde is two, he has been in probably his worse rut yet. Ramming trees, destroying his pen. He is usually and normally docile. You can never ever take your eyes off a rutty buck, its their nature. I agree with Renat here, a good show of dominance may be necessary. I hate to see people cull animals for them being natural to their behavior. Sorry you are hurt, Clyde has gotten me in the knees before its very painful.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm so sorry you were hurt. I agree, bye bye buck.  Regardless of why he acted up, you certainly don't need to deal with it. 
I hope you are feeling better. :hug:


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Wow, gosh, I'm sorry you went through this, but I'm glad I learned this before my boys turn three. I figured they would wind down as they got older. I probably would have let my guard down. :hide:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m so sorry he did that to you! Yes we are to never fully trust a buck but at the same time we don’t expect sneak attacks either! What you just described was mean! 
Usually with my bucks they get too big for their britches at about 18 months old and they need to be put in their place. But I did sell a buck last year at a little over 3 because he was just terrible. Not mean but ripping everything apart, not staying where I put him. He even cringed and went threw the hot fence. He was the first one to become a terrible buck at that age but I guess reading this it’s not uncommon.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

MellonFriend said:


> Wow, gosh, I'm sorry you went through this, but I'm glad I learned this before my boys turn three. I figured they would wind down as they got older. I probably would have let my guard down. :hide:


Oh yes they do wind down and mellow... Around age 8!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh no, yep, hormones.
I am sorry you were hurt.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks everyone. He's doing "ok" in his new environment so we shall see.


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

Yes forgot to say the most important thing, you need to use the power of the back in the need for human direction, when the back gets tired he'll have no thoughts on mischief. Working for a man disciplines any animal.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Now, Martin is an extremely friendly goat, needs no discipline, only some guiding! :inlove: And lots and lots of kindness!

As for the goat in the thread, I wish him a happy life, as long as it lasts! (grouphug) And good recovery from the damage to you!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks. I don't honestly see the point in trying hard to train and work a buck. I'm very busy running a 9 acre homestead/farm. I would just butcher him. We eat goats... so eating a buck won't bother me that much.


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

In the photo above my kids are on vacation, I have 4 kids goat riding is their business but sometimes I use goat and cart for farm needs .

My message is to use the power of the goat in the right direction, not to get horns in the stomach or head.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

LOL Martin the T-72 BattleTank Goat. Strong like Russian Bear.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

That Ram...is definitely freezer bait! In the video:up:


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

(((((hugs)))))


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

One of my Nigerians get killer goat mean during rut, but is sweet as pie the rest of the year. He bit my elbow the other day (but only got a mouthful of dirty barn jacket), and tried to head butt me when I reached in to feed him. We had a bit of a "meeting of the minds" so to speak, and he backed down after that, but.......he is worth way too much $$$$ to just ship or even sell. I can't get bloodlines like his any more, bother parents are dead. He's 8 or 9 or so.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

I've never had a problem with one at any age really.
I'm sorry you have had to deal with it.
Is he the only buck you have? I wonder if having as many as I do (I've got 8 now I think), they work off that energy on each other? Cause they are constantly pushing and mounting each other.
Good luck


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> I've never had a problem with one at any age really.
> I'm sorry you have had to deal with it.
> Is he the only buck you have? I wonder if having as many as I do (I've got 8 now I think), they work off that energy on each other? Cause they are constantly pushing and mounting each other.
> Good luck


Yes, he was my only buck. I did send him to a home that has multiple bucks so we shall see how he does.


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## downeast (Sep 21, 2016)

I was wondering if anyone here had put a hobble on their bucks? We have Kiko bucks and one Nigerian dwarf buck. My oldest buck (Louie-huge boy and is well over 100 lbs) broke in half a 4 x 4 post to get to the does. We put a hobble on him to keep him from running into things and it really helped. I hated seeing him have to walk slowly, and I would check his legs often to make sure no sores started. After about a week I was able to remove the hobble as he settled down. I did eventually sell him  but he has a terrific new home with all the does and he's the only buck.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

As a matter of fact, I never had any big troubles with bucks or rams.


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

ReNat said:


> Strong morale, determination, self-confidence and masculinity are directly dependent on the amount of testosterone in the blood.


Yes definitely. I have a Mini-Alpine 1 yo, wether 2 yo, wether 4 yo, intact buckling less than 1 yr and intact buck that is 2 yo and a successful breeder. Of course the experienced buck is my naughty boy and none of them have been aggressive with me yet. I didn't know to BOLO for behavioral changes and aggression as they reached full maturity.


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> As a matter of fact, I never had any big troubles with bucks or rams.


I see your posts to the forum often and I believe you to be an experienced member of this group so I would like to know how you discipline your goats for bad behavior. I don't like to hit animals. What do you do to discourage bad behavior? I know you prefer to put your goats to work as it burns off the excess energy which leads to mischief. I don't have a cart :shrug: what else would you suggest?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Set up an obstacle course and teach him the obstacle course. Go for long walks.


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Set up an obstacle course and teach him the obstacle course. Go for long walks.


Now that you mention it, my pet wether used to love to take walks with me until we moved to a larger place. Now when he gets out of sight of the rest of his herd he just plants his feet. He was an "only child" until we moved. What's up with that I wonder.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Treva Brodt said:


> I see your posts to the forum often and I believe you to be an experienced member of this group so I would like to know how you discipline your goats for bad behavior. I don't like to hit animals. What do you do to discourage bad behavior? I know you prefer to put your goats to work as it burns off the excess energy which leads to mischief. I don't have a cart :shrug: what else would you suggest?


I think it is @ReNat who puts his/her goats to work. I have had good fortune, first of all, purchasing very kind animals for the most time. Those who used to bully fellow goats were put into the freezer faster than quickly, leaving the kind ones to reproduce.

I remember once, when I was sitting on a wooden box inside the goat pen, stroking my goats, and one month-old buckling tryingly put his horns among my ribs. I did not even think, I just shoved him away, down from the box. I do not well remember, I THINK I grabbed his ears, at least not his horns. And yelled something unfriendly at him, like "What are you doing, son of a snake?" He never tried it again. (But he ended up in the freezer anyway, because the next winter-hay and the space indoors were setting the limits.)

One thing that goats really detest is a human, wet kiss on their dry fine goaty nose. Also some "paragraphs" can be discouraging from mischief, like when you "read the law" to a dog, nose to nose and a firm but peaceful grip around the neck, talking for some time.

Another effective method is to carry the goat. A small kid you can lift altogether, and so demonstrate how very strong you are! When he grows bigger, you must stick to half the goat, preferably the front legs off the ground, at the same time talking _friendly_ to him, this is not a punishment, but rather an unusual way of cuddling!

Hope it was helpful.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Treva Brodt said:


> Yes definitely. I have a Mini-Alpine 1 yo, wether 2 yo, wether 4 yo, intact buckling less than 1 yr and intact buck that is 2 yo and a successful breeder. Of course the experienced buck is my naughty boy and none of them have been aggressive with me yet. I didn't know to BOLO for behavioral changes and aggression as they reached full maturity.


What is BOLO?


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

Feira426 said:


> What is BOLO?


Be On the Look Out


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