# Goats hoof knuckling over



## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Hi I’m desperate for help , my goat who is 15 has some arthritis , he is losing condition and it’s like he can’t bear weight on hoof and instead is tucking it under and standing on his ankle joint, it’s horrible to see and no doubt painful for him ,tried b1 tabs and vet put him on steroids but no change any ides please.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Aww! I'm sorry you are having trouble with your goat. 
I hope he gets better! 
Maybe Selenium deficient? 
@Damfino @toth boer goats @SalteyLove @ksalvagno @Sfgwife @goatblessings


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Diane jones said:


> Hi I'm desperate for help , my goat who is 15 has some arthritis , he is losing condition and it's like he can't bear weight on hoof and instead is tucking it under and standing on his ankle joint, it's horrible to see and no doubt painful for him ,tried b1 tabs and vet put him on steroids but no change any ides please.


Have you checked the hoof a d foot for injuries, a sharp thing poking him?


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Has he been eating OK? 
Is he overweight or underweight?
I’m really hoping he gets better!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

does he have free choice loose minerals? if so, what brand.
when is the last time he got selenium?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

It sounds like he's already seen a vet, so I assume he's been thoroughly checked out and there is nothing obviously wrong with the hoof or foot. My guess is mineral imbalance, but I'm afraid at 15 years old it may be a problem with absorption rather than availability. I noticed when my old wether got to about that age, he seemed unable to absorb or efficiently utilize the minerals I provided and he started having issues like pasterns dropping, losing huge patches of hair, flaky skin, parasites, unusual color changes, etc. I felt like it was a product of old age rather than anything I was doing wrong so I made him comfortable in his last days until he told us he was ready. 

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case with your goat. It's very hard to diagnose things online so having a vet involved seems like your best bet. However, I also want to be realistic about his age and the infirmities that often come with it. You can try splinting the foot to see if it helps him move around better.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

15 years, what a gift!  And welcome to us goat-lovers!  Hope you can help your goat!

(@Damfino, is that dear Cuzco you are describing?)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Trollmor said:


> 15 years, what a gift!  And welcome to us goat-lovers!  Hope you can help your goat!
> 
> (@Damfino, is that dear Cuzco you are describing?)


Yes, that was Cuzco. And 15 years _is_ a gift.


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

CaramelKittey said:


> Aww! I'm sorry you are having trouble with your goat.
> I hope he gets better!
> Maybe Selenium deficient?
> @Damfino @toth boer goats @SalteyLove @ksalvagno @Sfgwife @goatblessings


I have bought some selenium and vit e pastebut he didn't like taste and just spits out each time , I didn't really want to force it into his mouth any ideas , thanks for replying


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Sfgwife said:


> Have you checked the hoof a d foot for injuries, a sharp thing poking him?


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Yes I’ve checked hoof only thing I can see is hoof wall appears to be separating slightly , vet checked a while ago but said ok


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

CaramelKittey said:


> Has he been eating OK?
> Is he overweight or underweight?
> I'm really hoping he gets better!


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Underweight losing muscle mass


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> does he have free choice loose minerals? if so, what brand.
> when is the last time he got selenium?


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Trying to get selenium in him he had 4ml last mo th selenium and vit e paste


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

What about a shot of BoSe? Although, I think that has to be prescribed by a vet. I’m not sure...so that’s not much help..


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

I know there are certain minerals that deplete the amount of selenium in a goat. Just can't remember their names..
@ksalvagno ?


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> I know there are certain minerals that deplete the amount of selenium in a goat. Just can't remember their names..


Levels of Sulfur and Arsenic can affect selenium.



Diane jones said:


> I have bought some selenium and vit e pastebut he didn't like taste and just spits out each time , I didn't really want to force it into his mouth any ideas , thanks for replying


Is he getting any grain or alfalfa pellets? I like to mix gels into that. If he isn't, maybe mix it with some applesauce or crushed up alfalfa pellets and if you really think he needs it and he won't take it any other way, getting a helper to hold him and squirting it into his mouth would really be the best thing for him. He _will _forgive you.

Another thing I want to ask is do you have any Replamin or can you get Replamin instead? It has a lot more selenium in it than the selenium gel only, and many other minerals as well. If it truly is a mineral thing that would be the better way to go.


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

CaramelKittey said:


> What about a shot of BoSe? Although, I think that has to be prescribed by a vet. I'm not sure...so that's not much help..


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

I asked my vet if it could be selenium deficiency but she said it would be in front legs and neck too and it’s just rear legs that are weak but thank you


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Damfino said:


> It sounds like he's already seen a vet, so I assume he's been thoroughly checked out and there is nothing obviously wrong with the hoof or foot. My guess is mineral imbalance, but I'm afraid at 15 years old it may be a problem with absorption rather than availability. I noticed when my old wether got to about that age, he seemed unable to absorb or efficiently utilize the minerals I provided and he started having issues like pasterns dropping, losing huge patches of hair, flaky skin, parasites, unusual color changes, etc. I felt like it was a product of old age rather than anything I was doing wrong so I made him comfortable in his last days until he told us he was ready.
> 
> Now, I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case with your goat. It's very hard to diagnose things online so having a vet involved seems like your best bet. However, I also want to be realistic about his age and the infirmities that often come with it. You can try splinting the foot to see if it helps him move around better.


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Thank you , you may well be right


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Diane jones said:


> I asked my vet if it could be selenium deficiency but she said it would be in front legs and neck too and it's just rear legs that are weak but thank you


Selenium def often starts in back legs..my buck began walking with his hoof slipping forward..very weak "back ankle" area. Took a few rounds of BoSe to get him back on his hoof correctly.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

One thing Ive found to feed goats something they dont like. Like your selenium / vit e gel. 
Take a Tsp of peanut butter
Small amount of black sunflower seeds
Black strap molasses
Oatmeal
Mix together in a small bowl. Roll it into a cookie ball. Push your finger in it to hollow it out. Put your sel/vite gel in the hole. Gently push the mix over the hole & roll in more oatmeal. All.my goats beg for these goat cookies. They dont care whats inside. They just love the cookie. Hope this helps with your buck!


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Selenium def often starts in back legs..my buck began walking with his hoof slipping forward..very weak "back ankle" area. Took a few rounds of BoSe to get him back on his hoof correctly.


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

My vet doesn’t want to visit except for real emergencies , so I can’t get BoSe , trying to at least get some vit e selenium paste in to him in small quantities but worried about overdosing,also giving some minerals , do,you know if you would normally see this knuckling over with arthritis . thanks for your help . Also the vet has suggested taking him off the steroid and trying horse Bute which she can post out but don’t know much about that as have never used before.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Dont be worried about OD'ing him. That paste is EXTREMELY safe! If i were you, i would be giving 5 cc every/every other day


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Diane jones said:


> Also the vet has suggested taking him off the steroid and trying horse Bute which she can post out but don't know much about that as have never used before.


I have used Bute in goats before to help with arthritis and muscle pain. I give according to weight. Our old wether was about 200 lbs. so I gave 1/5 of a horse dose or up to 1/4 of a horse dose sometimes. Bute can temporarily relieve symptoms but it is not a long-term solution as it is hard on the stomach and can cause ulcers. Have you tried splinting the foot at all?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Damfino said:


> ... I gave 1/5 of a horse dose or up to 1/4 of a horse dose sometimes.


According to weight, or in "absolute figures"?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm not sure what you mean. I read the label on the Bute and it tells you how many mg per 1000 lbs. I've always gotten Bute either in a tablet or powder form. With tablets it's usually one pill per 500 lbs. so I cut it in half for a 200 lb. goat. With the powder it depends on the size of the scoop. Either way, I have to kind of estimate an approximate amount.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Damfino said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. I read the label on the Bute and it tells you *how many mg per 1000 lbs*. I've always gotten Bute either in a tablet or powder form. With tablets it's usually one pill per 500 lbs. so I cut it in half for a 200 lb. goat. With the powder it depends on the size of the scoop. Either way, I have to kind of estimate an approximate amount.


That is what I meant. Thanks!


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Dont be worried about OD'ing him. That paste is EXTREMELY safe! If i were you, i would be giving 5 cc every/every other day


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

From what I,ve read it should only be 4cc once monthly .?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I dont like bute for goats. As Damfino stated..its hard on their stomach. Might ask your vet about Meloxicam for long term pain relief. 

I would do at least a 3-5 day running start of the selenium vit E gel. Give an extra vit E gel cap with each dose..then go monthly 
Giving a few days of Cod liver oil will help those tendons as well. Give once a day 3 days in a row or you can get vit A and D injectable. 

I remember when my buck did this it took a bit to strengthen.


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

happybleats said:


> I dont like bute for goats. As Damfino stated..its hard on their stomach. Might ask your vet about Meloxicam for long term pain relief.
> 
> I would do at least a 3-5 day running start of the selenium vit E gel. Give an extra vit E gel cap with each dose..then go monthly
> Giving a few days of Cod liver oil will help those tendons as well. Give once a day 3 days in a row or you can get vit A and D injectable.
> ...


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Sorry do you mean 3-5cc per day or per month


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sorry

Regular dose on tube for 3-5 days in a row..then monthly


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## Cottonwod Boer Goats (Mar 19, 2020)

I had a senior doe a couple years ago that would graze on her knees she had hidden hoof rot. Since then I have had to pamper her hooves every 2 months and there almost back to normal. He might just need *a lot* of slow and patient care. I hope that he gets well soon.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

I read last night that Molybdenum depletes the amount of selenium in a goat. Molybdenum is found in alfalfa hay. What kind of hay does he get?
I hope he gets better!


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

CaramelKittey said:


> I read last night that Molybdenum depletes the amount of selenium in a goat. Molybdenum is found in alfalfa hay. What kind of hay does he get?
> I hope he gets better!


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Ordinary grass hay because I wasn’t sure about laminitis and heard alfalfa was bad for that, It is so hard from photos online to tell what it is


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> One thing Ive found to feed goats something they dont like. Like your selenium / vit e gel.
> Take a Tsp of peanut butter
> Small amount of black sunflower seeds
> Black strap molasses
> ...


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Thank you everyone for your replies, I just wish I could find out what is causing this I have given about 5cc of selenium paste plus extra vit e capsules but no improvement, I have seen pictures of goats with white muscle disease and it does look like it could be , he does have some splitting of outside walls of hoof not much but hooves are not hot too touch so didn’t think could be laminitis , he didn’t like you to touch his legs but that may be more nervousness than anything


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

Diane jones said:


> Hi I'm desperate for help , my goat who is 15 has some arthritis , he is losing condition and it's like he can't bear weight on hoof and instead is tucking it under and standing on his ankle joint, it's horrible to see and no doubt painful for him ,tried b1 tabs and vet put him on steroids but no change any ides please.


Okay..deep breath...I have a couple of 15 yo goats with arthritis and other age related stuff..so lets go..
1. I use a mineral supplement called Replamin... it is in a tube so you can squirt out 2-5 cc (depending on goat weight approx) and feed directly OR..make a "sandwich" with it between saltines, ritz crackers (tostitos scoops are the favorite here) and feed it to your goat. This will help with any sort of mineral issue. I give them a dose about every 2 weeks. If you have given your goat a copper bolus, you might want to skip the Replamin and just use some Vitamine B paste instead.

2. I also give them B5/B12 the same way...you can get this in a tube as well..they get that once a week...sometimes more often in the winter.

Now, for the arthritis...I have been giving my two (who started out literally hopping on three legs when in real pain) a banamine (AKA Prohibit) injection once a month as needed. It is a drug that helps with inflammation, you need to get it from a Vet, and it is hard on the liver, so must be used sparingly and only when absolutely necessary. But it works quickly and well. 
But what I use all the time every day, that has not cured the problem but enabled them both to walk and get around on all fours is a combination of Glucosamine Powder and MSM powder. Holistic Horse makes a special formulation for goats and I give each goat (again, on a cracker or mixed with food), based on weight about 1/4 tsp of MSM and 1 tsp of Glucosamine. You may need to adjust this based on goat weight..BUT...again you need to balance this with mineral needs as these meds can lessen some mineral absorption...that's why I supplement with the Replamin paste. I do not copper bolus my goats...if you do then take that into consideration as well if supplementing with Replamin.

All these pastes and powders are tasty..and can be fed directly, but there is always one goat that turns up a nose at everything..so Tostito Scoops filled with meds are my go to solution.

If you have a vet that already ruled out foot or joint injury, then you might want to give this a try. My girls both get up stiff and achy and limping in the morning, but the MSM Glucosamine has helped a lot..It does take some time to take hold..usually 4-6 weeks, so you might want to see if your vet will show you how to use the banamine injection to start with.

It's hard to see our friends in pain...


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## Diane jones (Mar 25, 2020)

Hi thanks so much for taking the time to answer, " I am in England can’t get replamin , can try the vitamins though,have you seen any of your goats knuckle over like that with arthritis , I have tried copper, both his legs are very weak now due to muscles wasting , I wonder if it can be turned around now, the shame is is he is otherwise bright and front legs seem strong


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## Ruffee (Nov 30, 2017)

Diane jones said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies, I just wish I could find out what is causing this I have given about 5cc of selenium paste plus extra vit e capsules but no improvement, I have seen pictures of goats with white muscle disease and it does look like it could be , he does have some splitting of outside walls of hoof not much but hooves are not hot too touch so didn't think could be laminitis , he didn't like you to touch his legs but that may be more nervousness than anything


I had one born with his hoof bent under. We used pvc pipe cut in half the length from just below knee to end of hoof. Wrapped batting around leg and put pvc on and taped in 3 places. He was running and jumping everywhere.


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