# new goats



## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

hello everyone!

well I am very new at this whole goat subject, but my husband and I just received a pair of female angora goats. I am already in love! but..... are there things I should be looking out for? and suggestions to win over their affections? their previous owner did not handle them often one is a yearling and the other is 2 1/2. I know their feet have not been trimmed for quite sometime and am wondering how to get them tied and calmed at the same time..... also the oldest has a little runny nose and weepy eye, should I be concerned?


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Welcome to the group!
I have Angoras and only 1 out of the 3 kids I got is really super friendly. One hasn't started speaking to me again since shearing. heh. Food always wins over affections. Food and patience. 

As for trimming, I like to flip the Angoras on their backs to do their hooves. I just did all of mine the other day and I got gouged in the shoulder by a horn because I wasn't thinking and attempted to do the Angoras like I do the dairy goats (I don't tie anyone, I just trim, they're all used to me enough). Either way though, just be careful of the horns when trimming. If you have a stand that has a head hold that works really well.

For the Runny nose and eye, that could be a lot of things. Do they have a temp?

One thing I've noticed about my Angoras, they're more susceptible to parasites than my others. So keep an eye out and do a fecal on them. Many on here talk about not graining goats that aren't lactating or working...your fiber goats are working 24/7 growing you fiber so for a good fleece, they need good food.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

welcome!

time will help calm them down. just sit with them often, and bring lots of yummy treats. a way to anyone's heart is through their stomach!

I don't have a milk stand, so what I do is clip my goat's collar on to a chain link fence, their head height. that way they can't thrash their head around. with ones that hate having their hooves trimmed, I get my bf to stand and press their bodies up against the fence so they can't thrash.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to Goat Spot!!

All good advice...I trim hooves on our milk stand, even my unruly girlsenjoy a bit of feed while trimming...As statd you can tie them out but dont give alot of wiggle room for the head and you can have some one hold them for you...

A for winning them over..Time and patients...I have a lamancha who you could not touch, catch beg or pull!! she was wild...after a bit of time and coaxin she now is one of the first ones at the gate for loving, comes to the table and milks like a dream..still canmake her go any where she dont want to go lol..but thats just stubboness lol...Pen them ina smaller area...go out several times a day and sit with them..rach your hand out and allow them to sniff you with out fear of you grabbing them..offer small treats like raisens or wasa crackers..soon they will warm up to you touching....when they eagerly take treats from you then grab on and love on her...keep petting and talking soft to her until you feel her relax a little..then let her go softly and continue to love on her until she walks away...then try to grab the other..never chase them...
Be sure to offer qualtiy hay, feed and loose mineral 

For theone with runny nose...Stress lowers the immune system, I would get a temp on her ASAP. Temp should be bewtween 101.5 and 103.5..If she is high you will need to start antibioitcs...I like Nuflor which is RX 3 cc per 100# sub Q once daily for five days...Or OtC choice is Tylan 200 1 cc per 25# 2 x daily for five days..Both should be given SUB Q ( under the skin) 
If temps are good, a bit of immune booster or Vet Rx could help...Probios are always a good choice as is B complex. 
Best wishes


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

oh such good suggestions!!! thank you! 

amyboogie- turning them over is a fantastic idea, our 2 year old Ethel likes to throw her horns at me.. she's kind of a grump. Lucy is doing better with being friendly and have been able to grab her each night to lead them into the barn, so I think she might be a bit more compliant.... 

nchan7- so true!!! we have found that they LOVE apples! great idea for hooking them to the fence. I think I need to invest in some collars for them.

cathy- is it OK to grab their horns when holding on to them? also is it OK to the them alfalfa hay? the previous owner strictly gave them Timothy hay because less calcium, but they don't seem to care for it. what are your thoughts on the matter? and I will check her temp today!
thank you so much again everyone! I have a feeling this is a great place to be!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

holding horns is ok. they likely won't like it. one of my does were super wild, and my bf learned from the breeder is if you need to move them, grab a horn with one hand, and tail with the other. you can move them wherever you want like that. not the best b/c it's stressful, but in a bind, it works. haha.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

I don't know if its the same for all the breeds but Angoras need to be over a year before you can safely use their horns to wrangle them by. The breeder I got mine from said that any younger and the horns weren't well seated and even thought it's unlikely, you could still cause damage.

It looks like yours are old enough but wanted to mention it for others that might read this. 

If you flip them and support them well, they pretty much lay motionless making it fairly easy.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

very interesting Amy....never knew that!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

When I raised boer goats who had horns.we some times had to grab by the horns to catch the more wild ones, they do not like it one bit lol....but its better if you dont pull them by the horns, they seem to resist a whole lot more...Once way if you have a helper is to have your helper straddle the goat and use the horns as handles to keep them still..this is not in any way challenging them..I like to stand on the left side of the goat facing back...I start on the back left leg first by touching the rump and bringing my hand down the leg..I do this even with my girls who are used to hoof trimmings..I never just grab the leg...I lift the leg and tuck my elbow in the bend of the goats back leg and cradle her hoof in my hand..this gives me more control when they fight me...I then work the other back leg in the same manner..standing in the same spot..then the left front leg is done by lifting and resting from the knee to the hoof in my arm while cradling the hoof in my hand..for the right front leg I walk to the other side and again supprt and cradle the leg..

To lay one down, you sit on your knees and rest your bottom on you legs, bring back the goat to lay in your lap...A wad of tape on the horns will at least give some protection of you are hit..but do be careful...lean far back as you bring the goat back..Unlike sheep who will lay quite, goats seem to fight more. Some farmers will lay them down on the ground and straddle them on the chest area facing back..then trim all feet..then you dont have to worry about horns..
here is a youtube video to show this method...




Although I wouldnt use those clippers lol

Alfalfa is fine to give...Not surehow it effects the fibor growth..I bet amyboogie will know...I have dairy goats and mine do well on 100% alfalfa..


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Alfalfa works. 
I mix alfalfa pellets into the grain ration for ours. The thing that effects fiber growth the most would be lack of nutrition/food or sickness. Serious illness will cause a break in the fiber that isn't good from a spinner's stand point. Lack of nutrition will cause the fiber to be dull. As a goat ages the fiber decreases in it's awesomeness anyway. And each goat creates their own fleece. Some are better than others. Just keep a watch on their fecals and make sure to keep up with vitamins/minerals and feed them appropriately. If they're healthy, they'll produce a good fiber (or as good as they are capable.)


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> very interesting Amy....never knew that!


I think it only matters in purposes of wrangling. Leading the goat by the horns if they're not fighting you probably isn't much of a problem but anything more than that and it could cause horn issues. My 3 hate having their horns messed with.

But like I said, I am not sure if it's Angora specific or not.


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

Amy- can you give me of an example of grains, minerals,etc. I just want to be sure we are giving them what they need.


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

cathy- you said you wouldn't use the clippers in the video. would you use clippers that had a straighter edge?


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Its mostly the same as any other goat but this is how we do it. We're not vastly experienced but it's what we were taught and it's working for us so far.

Free choice hay/ample hay with browse
Balanced Goat Mineral free choice ( like MannaPro Goat mineral)
Grain - 1-2 cups a day for those not pregnant or feeding young. For grain we mix Blue Seal Caprine Challenger, Dairy Pellet, BOSS, and Alfalfa pellets. 

Ours also get garden leftovers, which we're about at the end of here in Maine. We use herbal wormers and we give them Kelp and Garlic as well. 

Remember if you make food changes to make them slowly so as not to disrupt their systems too much.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> cathy- you said you wouldn't use the clippers in the video. would you use clippers that had a straighter edge?


Yes..those on the video are too curvy IMO...I like these: 
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....7&ccd=IGO045&gclid=CK2bq-LXnroCFURp7AoddwoAvw

They are perfect for my small hands...and work well even with my big bucks. I also use a carpet knife/box blade to shave the pads smooth : )


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

thank you both! very informative. OK so here is another question.. our Angoras have not been sheared for the fall is it too late? our temps have been in the low 30s at night and 50s during the day. are you tired of my questions yet?


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

If you don't shear them now, their fleece will be a mess. Its a tad chilly at night though. Where are they sleeping? Is it warm? Can you get them coats to wear at night for a few weeks until they get fluffy again?


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

thats what i was afraid of, they are mess already i cant imagine what they would be like in the spring. we have set up a little stall for them in our shed. its a few degrees warmer, it has our bales of straw in it so its a bit insulated. would fleece blankets that are fitted to them work?​


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Yup. that would work. You don't want to leave them on all winter. Just long enough for them to get enough fluff to keep them warm. 

If you're shearing with hand clippers, you might be able to leave enough fluff to work out ok. Unfortunately with electric shearing for it to work, the shears need to be on the skin so there is no way of leaving extra fluff and getting a clean cut.

Also, choose a warmer sunny day to do the shearing. 

But if you're really worried, you can just leave it til the spring and call the fleece a loss. We shear 2x a year, fall and spring to get 4-6 inch locks. That means 4-6 inches of growth will be added to what they have now.


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## JanaM (Oct 17, 2013)

Well we hand sheared the angoras.... well they aren't pretty and it was definitely an experiance I shall never forget....but it's done. 

Ethel still has a runny nose but no fever, is this a warning sign for a different illness?

By the way how are all you doing? I'm sorry I have not posted for the past week! Hope everyone is well


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Glad you were able to get that done. Shearing can be a big task. Do you have any fleece that is usable from it? 

As for the sniffles....it might be a cold or allergies. You can get herbals or vetRX but if it continues or she gets a cough or a temp, you might want to talk to the vet about getting her on meds for pneumonia. Or if you're worried now, it never hurts to have them checked out. Pneumonia can hit them fast but the info I've read is that they usually have a temp with it. Not always though according to other members here. I'm not a vet or even experienced but this is what we do. 

We have one goat with allergies and one that had the sniffles for a couple of weeks. I watched them like a hawk for any signs though.


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## fiberchick04 (Mar 8, 2010)

AmyBoogie said:


> I don't know if its the same for all the breeds but Angoras need to be over a year before you can safely use their horns to wrangle them by. The breeder I got mine from said that any younger and the horns weren't well seated and even thought it's unlikely, you could still cause damage. It looks like yours are old enough but wanted to mention it for others that might read this. If you flip them and support them well, they pretty much lay motionless making it fairly easy.


One thing that will help the horns be more solid to where you can handle them by their horns is selenium. If your goats horns are weak and are breaking or they are wobbly, that goat may have a selenium deficiency. Angoras can be handled by the horns as babies, eureka mohair in California, along with red falcon ranch show their kids by the horns with no problems.


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## fiberchick04 (Mar 8, 2010)

happybleats said:


> When I raised boer goats who had horns.we some times had to grab by the horns to catch the more wild ones, they do not like it one bit lol....but its better if you dont pull them by the horns, they seem to resist a whole lot more...Once way if you have a helper is to have your helper straddle the goat and use the horns as handles to keep them still..this is not in any way challenging them..I like to stand on the left side of the goat facing back...I start on the back left leg first by touching the rump and bringing my hand down the leg..I do this even with my girls who are used to hoof trimmings..I never just grab the leg...I lift the leg and tuck my elbow in the bend of the goats back leg and cradle her hoof in my hand..this gives me more control when they fight me...I then work the other back leg in the same manner..standing in the same spot..then the left front leg is done by lifting and resting from the knee to the hoof in my arm while cradling the hoof in my hand..for the right front leg I walk to the other side and again supprt and cradle the leg.. To lay one down, you sit on your knees and rest your bottom on you legs, bring back the goat to lay in your lap...A wad of tape on the horns will at least give some protection of you are hit..but do be careful...lean far back as you bring the goat back..Unlike sheep who will lay quite, goats seem to fight more. Some farmers will lay them down on the ground and straddle them on the chest area facing back..then trim all feet..then you dont have to worry about horns.. here is a youtube video to show this method... Video Link:
> 
> 
> 
> Although I wouldnt use those clippers lol Alfalfa is fine to give...Not surehow it effects the fibor growth..I bet amyboogie will know...I have dairy goats and mine do well on 100% alfalfa..




I'd be careful with the alfalfa and grain use. Although amyboogie is right in that they are working on growing the fleece, alfalfa is a hot feed along with corn. Think about if you were wearing a parka 24/7 through all of the months and then you were eating a cup or two or more of hot chicken noodle soup. You'd sweat a lot and want to take your jacket off.

The sweat can affect the fiber quality and damage it. Also with alfalfa comes tiny leaves in it. That makes it extremely difficult to clean it out of the fleece.

Like amyboogie said, nutrition and health will affect the fiber quality. Preferably we are breeding for animals that stay pretty consistent with their quality as they age. In my lines I have goats that have become finer and more stylish with their age. My 7 year old cashmere doe still maintains a 14.7 micron fleece. Last year it was 14.1. My 10 year old buck before he died was still at 15 microns. So ideally we want to breed up for goats that will hold their quality throughout. Because the spinner and buyer won't care how old the goat was, they want the quality 

Amyboogie, you have great information! How long have you owned fiber goats?


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Sammy, Thank you. I haven't owned my goats for a full year yet. 
I may know a bunch about the fiber parts because I'm in the fiber biz. I've had a spinning and weaving shop since 2001 and am a spinning teacher and wrote a book on spinning. I have gathered a lot of knowledge about fleece and the animals that produce it from hanging out with/learning from shepherds and other fabulous fleece loving teachers. 
We also didn't just jump into goats but learned everything we could about them. Once I realized that I liked goats better than sheep. 

Thank you for the information about the horns. The breeder I bought mine from cautioned against it so that's what I was going by. It may be because we're in a selenium deficient area. They are really good handles and we have been supplementing with herbal selenium....I have noticed a difference in the horn growth since.


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## fiberchick04 (Mar 8, 2010)

Yep! I am happy there is anther fiber and fiber goat enthusiast here!!


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