# Help! Doe has slight cough and threw up cud



## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

So my doe in milk hasn't been feeling well lately. She has been picking at her food, and today flat our refused to eat. This morning I gave her some kefir, and homemade electrolytes, then went off to work. I came home, armed with some antiacids, but she won't eat them. after bringing the other goats back, I noticed she had recently thrown up some cud, and has some cud smeared on the walls of her pen. 

Her temp this morning was 101, and now it's 102.1. She got up, and looks fairly alert.

All I have on hand are ivomec, B12, red cell, activated charcoal, and other items that can be found in the kitchen. the local vet is, imo, not very good.

what else can I do?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Can you check her throat to determine any possible blockage?
You'll need a flashlight & a 60cc syringe or sleeve placed sideways in her mouth so she cant amputate your fingers.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

tried checking down her throat, and she wasn't too keen on it..... I just saw into her mouth, and didn't see anything.....

I ground up some activated charcoal and tried drenching about 1 tbsp. with water and vit c tab (the fizzy ones). I'm letting her rest a little bit.

I saw her pee, and it was normal colour. there's a poop in her pen, and it also looks fairly normal, SLIGHT clumping, but nothing major.....

for some reason i'm thinking it has something to do with rumen? maybe she ate something poisonous recently? sigh....what else can I do to help? more kefir?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

More kefir might be good, is she foaming at the mouth?
A T of act charcoal isn't going to make much difference if it is toxicity you're dealing with. Id do more just in case. Tt's good she's off grain for now.
Is she one of those does who eat too fast?
Do you have C&D antioxin?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

not foaming. I found pieces of cud on the hay. 

I will give her more kefir and more charcoal. how much charcoal should I be giving her? doesn't hurt to give more vit c, would it?

no antitoxin (went to the feed store, and they didn't even have syringes with needles, or injecting iron, or minerals......)

she's a very picky eater, and eats slowly. but recently, she's been eating about half her grain and picking through it. she's not eating the BOSS....maybe b/c it's mouldy?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ok, got more kefir and more charcoal down her throat (about 1/2 cup kefir, 1/2 cup water, and 1+ tbsp. of charcoal)

gonna give her a bit of a break for now, and hit her up again in an hour or so with more.

I should milk her out too, right?

btw - she thoroughly hates me now.....


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

:hug: I have nothing helpful to add except my support!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Maybe MOM in place of the CD antitoxin, but maybe that's what the charcoal is being used for, I've just never used charcoal. You may also try rubbing her left side real good too. I pray she gets better soon....


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, milk her out. I skipped with my doe and she dried up after that.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Axykatt!!! I hope Peggy Sue gets better too!!! :hug:

ok, about to do another dosage of kefir/charcoal/water/vit C mixture, and milk her out, then a rub on her left side.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm no expert but that's what I would do...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Next time around get about 5 of those antacids down her too.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Be generous with that charcoal. When we thought a buck needed it her owner gave the whole tube + a half a cup of veggie oil.
It wasn't purdy coming out the other end but he lived.
When you massage, be vigorous.
Hope she gets better soon!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I just finished that dosage and milked and massaged. she let out a nice long pee

so for next dosage before I go to bed:
- I currently have about 1/4 cup of powdered charcoal, which would make tonight's total up to almost 3/4 cup of powdered charcoal
- 5 antiacids
- 1/2 cup of oil - I have rice bran, coconut, or olive. which would be best?

and more massaging, and trying to tell her this is for her own good while she tries to run away from me...... lol
-


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is she chewing a cud? ANy rumen sounds or movment? her temp looks good, keep an eye on it...if she does not have any rumen function go ahead and give the MOM as well..15 cc per 60# this will help push any toxins out..offer electorlytes to encourage drinking as well..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I think I would choose cocoanut oil myself. It's not quite so nasty.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

when I was milking, she looked like she was chewing cud. I heard chewing, sounded a littler harsher than usual (think she's just been eating hay), I watched her and there was swallowing, then something came back up, more chewing. I heard SOME movement, but not much. she won't drink the electrolyte water I left out for her all day, now I have regular water. 

currently don't have MOM, and the stores are now closed...... will look tmr if she doesn't change.

good thing is she's still fighting me hard, AND she looks really alert.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think she would like the taste of coconut oil better too..my goats love it..

The charcole should help her as well...the MOM will help flush it..hopefully by morning she will be feeling better...
if you fear mold..be sure to check her grain, and hay source..Thiamine or fortified B would be good


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

so, went out to give her the last dosage for the day. I think she cringed when she saw me. she wasn't happy about it, but she swallowed most of that tar-like liquid.

after I finished and looked like I work at the tar sands, I gave her a massage. she burped a few times (thank goodness!). then I brought her some hay and she started munching.

i'm sending out good vibes for her to feel like her meanie self tomorrow, and eat like a champion!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good job


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

great job...its good that they forgive us....I think it is so funny that even the most in your face friendly goat will run from me when they are sick! Mia was raised here her whole life..you cant be out there with them without her being right at my hip..pushing my hand for loving..but today she had the runs and mamma went into "DR MODE"..took both me and my son to catch her for pepto and CD Antitoxin lol..after that...she wont even look me in the eye...lol.then once they feel better..you are best friend again lol...


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry Cathy I just had to laugh you horrible goatie mom.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know right...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ok, so this morning, she wasn't any better or worse.....

I gave her more tums and vit c pill with more charcoal. I also gave 3 cc's of ivomec orally (she's about 85lbs or so), and 4cc's of B12 SQ. have her belly a really nice rub, left her with some goodies (veggie scraps, raisins and banana....all of which she didn't eat when I was there). took her temp, and she's at 101.3. 

after dealing with the other goats, I came back and she had passed that oil slurry I gave her last night (it was disgusting). cleaned that up, said a little prayer and left to go to work.

today, i'll be looking for some human vit B (should I get complex or thiamine?) and MOM. what else should I look for at the store? 

apparently b/c it's getting to be the Christmas season, the port is holding shipments in for longer than usual, which is likely why there's nothing at the feed store. sigh.....


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh, I haven't noticed anymore coughing....


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Prayers she recovers quickly ! Poor baby


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks Laura. sucks having a sick animal. at least people can talk!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

nchen7 said:


> thanks Laura. sucks having a sick animal. at least people can talk!


I know ! Im so sorry  Wish she would give you more of a hint of what the heck is wrong .


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

How are you giving the kefir ? I never heard of giving that .


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

nchen7 said:


> ok, so this morning, she wasn't any better or worse..... I gave her more tums and vit c pill with more charcoal. I also gave 3 cc's of ivomec orally (she's about 85lbs or so), and 4cc's of B12 SQ. have her belly a really nice rub, left her with some goodies (veggie scraps, raisins and banana....all of which she didn't eat when I was there). took her temp, and she's at 101.3. after dealing with the other goats, I came back and she had passed that oil slurry I gave her last night (it was disgusting). cleaned that up, said a little prayer and left to go to work. today, i'll be looking for some human vit B (should I get complex or thiamine?) and MOM. what else should I look for at the store? apparently b/c it's getting to be the Christmas season, the port is holding shipments in for longer than usual, which is likely why there's nothing at the feed store. sigh.....


Yikes, so sorry you are going through this. If you can get something that has Thiamine in the B complex, then that is what I would get, so all your basis are covered. I'm not in the expert realm by any means but I've learned a lot from reading about it... Praying she gets better soon


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> How are you giving the kefir ? I never heard of giving that .


yes, i gave kefir yesterday, not today since i gave wormer. i'll give kefir later today.

it's just a yogurt type thing...but easier to do as long as your have the kefir grains. to me, it's a little strong to have by itself, but great in smoothies. it has more of the good bacteria in it. i dunno, it was the only probiotic thingy i have i home, so she got some...


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh Im sure its great to give ! I was just curious how you did it 
Thanks for explaining it for me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

B complex with high levels of Thiamine would be great or do both the complex and an extra thiamine....
it has got to be frustrating not to be able to get what you need...
Keep up the kiefer
MOM should help if she has toxcity building..15 cc per 60# every 4 hours...her poop will soften as the MOM flushes the toxins out...be sure to keep her hydrated during this process...once she is eating again you stop MOM...you can then use pepto if she is very runny...or if its just ploppy, let it be...

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have on hand or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks Cathy. I was JUST about to ask you dosage of MOM. I found some in the store.

I wasn't sure if it's worms or toxins, or maybe both, so I gave her ivomec this morning. sigh. I have MOM on hand now, and 120 B100 pills. I read from goathiker that I need to give her 12 pills. 

i'm supposed to get an update from the bf, but I haven't heard from him yet.....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Grind the pills up and add enough water to drench or mix it with her keifer : )


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

that's the plan!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

How is your doe today nychen7?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Yes , how is she ?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

So I think she's a LITTLE better. I gave her MOM last night and MOM this morning. Also some more antacids, vit C, kefir. She was nibbling on hay (ate more than before). Then I remembered goathiker saying beer starts rumen function (I think her rumen stopped working). So got a double stout, and gave her half the bottle. She started eating more!!

So this evening, I'm not sure what to give. Should I give her more MOM, beer, vit 9, antacids, kefir, any combination?

She doesn't want to drink either, so I'm drenching when I give her stuff. But now she's a bit stronger and can buck me off!

What to do????


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I would say if she is chewing her cud, then you wouldn't have to give MOM or the beer. If she isn't then most likely just the beer. I would also drench her with electrolytes, probiotics (kefir in your case) if she isn't drinking yet. You might want to wait for Happybleats or Goathiker to confirm


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks! I'll give her some more beer and the kefir/vit c/antacids. Wouldn't hurt, right?

And....try to get more liquids in her.....


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

nchen7 said:


> Thanks! I'll give her some more beer and the kefir/vit c/antacids. Wouldn't hurt, right? And....try to get more liquids in her.....


Nope, I don't think it would hurt...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Did all of the above. Sigh. Hate having a sick animal...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if she is still not chewing a cud..continue the MOM ..beer wont hurt either..the MOM will flush the toxins and the beer will help kick start the rumen..sounds like she is trying to get better..is there anything she can eat that would send her back to not eating..a plant upsetting her rumen? 
Keep her hydrated as well...

Best wishes..I know having a sick goat can be frustrating....you just want them better NOW ... Hugs


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

nchen7 said:


> Did all of the above. Sigh. Hate having a sick animal...


You are doing a good job..... Praying she makes a full recovery soon


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your doing a great job :hug: Keep us posted .


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

thank you all!

she hasn't given up yet, so nor will I. I gave her MOM again just now.

all she has in her pen is hay (doesn't smell moldy), and some of her favourite greens to help entice her to eat. I haven't given any grains at all for a few days now.

I just can't understand why she's not drinking tho. I've made a few types of electrolytes, and she doesn't want to be a part of any of them! sigh......

she's bright eyed and bucking me off her, which i'll take as a good sign.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she's chewing cud this morning!

ok, now what do I do? still give her MOM or stop that and give her the rest of the other items and see if she eats? or give her one more dose of MOM along with everything else???


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

:clap: I wouldn't stop just yet , you don't want a rebound. JMO though.
Has she started to drink yet ? Not sure if you did this already , but maybe add a little molasses to water and offer it to her ?
I would also have just plain water available at all times.
Great Job nchen7


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if sheis chewing a cud you can stop MOM... means her rumen is back in action...do continue the kiefer a few more days and keep a close watch on her...hopefully she isnt getting something in graze causeing this shut down.. And I agree be sure to always have fresh water at all times so she can choose what she wants to drink..: ) you can also give 1/4 ACV in a gallon on water, seeif she will drink that..

great job!!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

well, I gave her a MOM this morning, then she didn't want to eat again. haven't checked her yet. I have tried various types of water (plain, ACV, molasses), and nothing yet. i'll try in a bit...I put her out with the other goats today, give a little break from her pen and she wan kind of happy being outside in the fresh air.

will keep you updated!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh, how often should I be giving kefir? i'm also still giving vit B complex (the pills) and tums. should I keep going with those as well twice a day until she's fully back?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give the kefir twice a day. Yes, I would do it all twice a day until she is back. I hope she gets better for you quickly.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Beingout with her goat buddies should cheer her up some...I would do kiefer with the b's twice a day until you feel she is out of the woods...if you dont see her chewing a cud by bed time...then dose her MOM again.. but wait as long as you can..see what her body can do..


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

perfect. thanks everyone!


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

We are still rooting for you guys! Peggy Sue sends Buttercup her sympathies.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sounds like she's mending, slower then what you would like, but still improving... Come on Buttercup, feel 100% soon You are a great goat mommy, hang in there!!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Peggy Sue is awesome!

Buttercup ate!!!!! I gave her the kefir, b complex and vit c slurry. She wasn't impressed. I think she's on the mend!

Now, new thing - I milked her today, and her milk is yellow pastel colour! I'm wondering if the oral vit B complex (12 pills of B100) is making her milk yellow? It turns pee yellow. Milk doesn't smell or feel clumpy, udder is normal. Has anyone had this happen to them before??


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Hmmm, I'm willing to bet it's the vitamins, but I think they usually pee what they don't need out... Hopefully someone else will chime in...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet it is the vitamins too.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Yes, that's what I figured too, but highly distressing when u go to milk expecting nice creamy milk....and something yellow comes out!

Thanks for the reassurance!


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## Meg1614 (Oct 28, 2013)

If she is still no drinking much you can always try Gatorade also it won't hurt her and some time they prefer the sweetness of the Gatorade. Side note have you checked her eyelids to make sure she's not anemic?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...its most likely the vitamines..oral will go to the milk more than injected : ) 

so so glad she is feeling better!! great job!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats great hear ! Im so glad she is recovering  
What a stressful time for you  
You did a awesome job ! Your the best goat mommy too


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the love and support!

I'll try to get more liquids in her. she doesn't seem too dehydrated (did the skin test this morning). she's with her goatie friends, and Missy is competing with her for food, which is making her eat more! yay!!! we're not quite out of the woods, but getting there!


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Aw I didn't see your doe was unwell. 

Glad to hear she's doing better though. I hope she keeps getting better


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks ciwheeles!

she did poop out some pellets too! aah....now to get her to drink!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good job!!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, great job!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

So how is Buttercup??


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she's good! back to normal!!!! this morning she was maaa maa MAAAA -ing at me to feed her. she was HUNGRY. so I started small by giving some hot oatmeal with a bit of flax in it. SO relieved that she's back to her POA self! love that goat! thanks for asking Janeen!!!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good!! Glad to hear that!!! Great job...


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Yay! Glad to hear she's doing better!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats great to hear


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