# Curious about Goats



## Ellie L. F. (Nov 18, 2018)

Hullo from Colorado!

I'm a hopeful future goat Mom! This summer my husband and I are building a house, and for the first time in my adult life I'll have a yard of my own! At first we considered getting a dog, but as lovely as dogs are, I don't want one???
I know weird right? I think a part of it is that I'm afraid of most dogs bigger than a purse. There are lots of nice ones, but I've encountered plenty of "scary" dogs that have sort of ruined dogs for me. I considered getting a small dog, but then my mother in law mentioned that her niece kept pygmy goats. Her niece is high on the autism spectrum and having gentle goats to care for has really benefited her. I looked up miniature goat breeds and fell in love. 

Having kept a number of rescue ferrets, rabbits, snakes and volunteered for several animals shelters, I'm fully aware that taking on any animal is a big responsibility and is for life. I am not the kind of person to get a cute kid only to neglect it as it gets older. I also looked up to see if our town had any good goat vets. And according to the goat owners in our area, we have three! I checked to see if it would be legal, according to the city map we are on multi-use land. There's a ranch nearby that breeds Nigerian Dwarfs, and I've met a few other goat owners who have gotten their Nigerian Dwarfs from them and recommend them. 

My plan is to get a pair of wethers. We have lots of little hikes nearby to take them on (on a leash! and with a dog whistle and mace). I already have names picked out from some of my favorite books. I've been making plans for their shelter and their enclosure. I'm in contact with the local "goat" lady who is happy to teach me about keeping goats and is full of advice. 

That being said I'm always happy to hear more advice.

One question I'd like to put out there: Is it necessary to have them dis-budded as kids? I don't have any children to worry about and I like the way their horns look. Can't I just put something on the horns if I'm concerned about them hurting each other?:what:

Thanks a bunch! Ell


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

In all likelihood the breeder will have already made this decision for you. Disbudding is done at just a few days old.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Hello fellow Coloradan! I love horns and I leave horns on my wethers. So no, I don't think it's necessary to disbud. BUT, it is important that you teach your goats good horn manners so they are never tempted to butt, poke, or snag people. Two horned goats are unlikely to hurt each other even when they play very rough. If you decide you want horns, be prepared to stick with that decision. I've heard people say, "Well, if they are bad with their horns we'll just band them later." But banding horns is very hard on goats and could cause them to become permanently shy. You'll also have to keep horns in mind when building fences, feeders, gates, shelters, etc. Horned goats can require somewhat different management than dehorned ones since they may learn how to use their horns to open latches, destroy things, etc. 

In the end, it's up to your personal preference and what you feel you can manage. When we go out in public I sometimes wrap my boys' horns using tennis balls and vetwrap so they can't accidentally poke a careless kid in the face or snag someone's jewelry or belt loops. Our goats are careful, but some people are not! Nigerian Dwarfs are very cute, and you're making a good decision to get wethers. The world needs more good homes for wethers. And I'm 100% with you on the "goats are better than dogs" thing. I have two big dogs myself, but their only purpose is to guard my precious goats!


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

It’s not something we do no matter gender or if it can procteate or not. With the exception of one buck, we have never had issues. Yes, they will butt each other. It’s in their nature. But we prefer to keep them intact up above for a few reasons.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

I have a NigiXpygmy Buck. Fully intact and with horns. Personally Im fine with them understanding its his primary weapon. He's hooked me before..gored me and such...its is AMAZING how much power a 45-50lb Buck has so be very very careful. That said, proper training, respect and time...its not that bad, you can teach them. I am going to tennisball Clyde geught, I let his horns grow and now they are like spears. So some hot pink tennis balls with green duct tape is what he's getting. 

I would say stick to Wethers or Does. Bonnie is a pygmy and she is just a doll, does her thing...just chills. Possum peen is totally different animal...esp in RUT...Lort.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

First, I agree, I like goats Better than dogs. Not saying dogs are bad (I have 3 myself) but it just... Well... GOATS!! Lol! I don't know why I like them better I just do! 

Second: be sure to have a draft free shelter for your goaties. They a sturdy, well built structure to block wind, rain ( goats HATE to get wet!), sun and just general weather.

I don't care if my goats have horns or not. If you want horns then keep the horns, but stick to the decision that you make!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with what Has been said already.

I believe in keeping the horns, it is their radiator, which helps keep them cool in the summer and warmer in the winter.

Some do remove them, for different reasons, to each their own.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Welcome to the forum! We disbud because it is a little safer for the dogs and cats. We also did not want them getting hung in the fence.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

for me, disbuding-dehorning is a big NO, I will not have a dehorned goat no exceptions, all my dairy goats, meet goats all goats of mine WILL have there horns, OK dont get me started, this can be a hot topic.
I'm SOOOOOOOOO glad you want goats!!!!!!!! wethers are SOOOO much FUN!!!! does can be a blast two, not bucks for someone with limited experience. what are the names you have picked?


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## SleepingDogRanch (Aug 10, 2018)

Wethers are a good choice. My first, official, goat was Cameron a wether who was in my life for 13 years and he was such a good goat!


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## Mmhyronimus (Sep 8, 2017)

I have both dehorned and horned goats. I honestly prefer the horns. Not only are they, as Toth Boer goats pointed out, radiators, but they also make great handles. I know, not a great way to put it, but they make it a lot easier to hold on to when giving shots. Especially if you have some ham-handed people helping with them like I do. 
Most of my dairies are dehorned but only because I bought them already dehorned. 

Wethers and does are a good place to start. As some people have said, bucks can be a little challenging when in rut. Welcome to the site!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

I got butted in the head today (my fault for bending down in the hay though), but I think goats should have their horns. It's an essential part of being a goat! We only have 1 goat without them and he was disbudded as a kid before he came here.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Mmhyronimus said:


> they also make great handles. I know, not a great way to put it, but they make it a lot easier to hold on to when giving shots.


:up:

Imagine running around with both arms around a goats neck WHILE trying to give a shot. Horns are much easier to hang on to.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Hi, welcome. 
It is a personal decision, I have Nigerian Dwarfs and I absolutely love the breed. Wethers are so sweet and loving, it's a great choice to start. I respect the fact that you're doing the research you need to be a good goat mom. I have mostly horned however, I did disbud our triplets that were just born for two reasons, first they're dairy and to show it's required. I'm not sure if we will show the does,but since the window for disbudding is so short I went ahead and had our vet do it. Second is we want to retain the buckling for future breeding, a powerful buck in rut with horns is not something I feel I can personally handle. I'm getting older and not as quick as I used to be. 
If I was only getting goats as pets, I'd chose horned wethers that I bottle fed because you bond really well bottle feeding and they get used to you being herd queen so you have less issues and like others have said it is their way of cooling off in hot weather.
Good luck with your new goats and again, Welcome we will look forward to pictures once you get your new fur babies


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

21goaties said:


> :up:
> 
> Imagine running around with both arms around a goats neck WHILE trying to give a shot. Horns are much easier to hang on to.


:nod: I third the built-in handle situation. They have been the only reason I was able to get ahold of a few goats.


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## Ellie L. F. (Nov 18, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> for me, disbuding-dehorning is a big NO, I will not have a dehorned goat no exceptions, all my dairy goats, meet goats all goats of mine WILL have there horns, OK dont get me started, this can be a hot topic.
> I'm SOOOOOOOOO glad you want goats!!!!!!!! wethers are SOOOO much FUN!!!! does can be a blast two, not bucks for someone with limited experience. what are the names you have picked?


I'd like to talk to the breeders and ask if they will let me keep their horns. I think it makes them look....goaty!

As for names We were thinking Aberforth for one:
Aberforth is Dumbledor's brother in the Harry Potter books. An old Crotchety wizard who loves goats (a little too much). His Patronus is a goat.

And Either Bartelby or Bombadil for the other: 
Bartleby a comic book character from Jeff Smith's Novel "Bone", who's name I presume comes from "Bartleby the Scrivener" by Herman Melville.
Bombadil is a Tolkien character. I'm rather fond of both names but my Husband thinks Bartelby sounds cuter.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Well I guess I'm gonna be the ONLY one here to go with No Horns. 
I'm fond of Dairy so we don't have horns or keep wethers.
Colo. Doesn't get that warm so the radiator point is moot in my opinion.
Having had meat goats with horns I know I don't like how they manage to always find a new place to stick their head through and get stuck because of the horns. 
The horn walking is great, but mine are trained to go where I shush them. 
Just my opinion.


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## Ellie L. F. (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks everyone for being so warm and welcoming! I appreciate your words of wisdom. My town is small and I think I request the breeders not to disbud the kids if I ask. It's that kind of town. I'll be sure to share pics of these guys, and my progress building their enclosure and shelter. 

Looking forward to more goat talk with yall! Thanks! (woot)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Where in Colorado are you located? I'm in Rye, which is south of Pueblo.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

Aberforth is a must!! I won’t share that our next little buck might be named Sirius. 

I am torn on the other two. Bartleby is really cute BUT I am a big Tolkien fan so that dedication leans me towards Bombadil.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

LOL,
talking about a good example of horns vs no horns.
Years ago, when I was starting out, we would go to a breeder who had a scale for others to use for weights on wethers being sold. 

This breeder dehorned everything mind you. 
When we took our wethers over to her to get a weight. What did they grab first, when trying to get the goat to move over to the area? The horns. 
I thought to myself, now why in the world would they have no horned goats, yet that is the first place they grabbed, I thought it was immunizing. 
:crazy::hahadoh)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

^ It was very "immunizing" eh? :heehee:


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

immunizations are key lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I would ask the breeders to wait as long as possible to wether them. They could have very long lives and letting them get older before taking away the testes improves their long term health.

I know, not the extremity you were asking about.


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## lamancha1234 (Feb 1, 2019)

In my Experience I am 100% Against D-horned goats i lost 4 babies a week a part from one another due to a women's stupidity of D-horning my goats she did it to long and to hard she dug it really deep in there heads. 

My 95-lb 8 1/2 month old Lamancha doe has a nice set of horns and she is really sweet she don't use them to head butt me or use them on me even when she is near my leg she will walk side ways to keep from poking me i know it sounds funny but she does what she can not to poke my leg. 

there is a lot of breeders who don't like D-horned goats and there are some that do but it is the owners discretion if they want them or not. 

You can maybe catch the breeder before they D-horned there babies and see if they will keep your goats that you want D-horned as that is what you want. The breeder May ask for a fee for you to pay so if they do keep them horned so you don't back out on the 2 goats you want and they don't get stuck with goats that are horned. 

I also would say Look at the goats Personality of the parent's Mainly the father he will show you how his children's personality will turn out to be.


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## Megpie (Mar 21, 2018)

I will say it is much easier to grab a horned goat then ones with no horns...especially when its time to deworm.


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## MtnRidgeFarm (Dec 6, 2017)

wifeof1 said:


> Well I guess I'm gonna be the ONLY one here to go with No Horns.
> I'm fond of Dairy so we don't have horns or keep wethers.
> Colo. Doesn't get that warm so the radiator point is moot in my opinion.
> Having had meat goats with horns I know I don't like how they manage to always find a new place to stick their head through and get stuck because of the horns.
> ...


Not true!  We have dairy goats and also go hornless. That's not to say that I'm against horns as a whole but I think it depends on the type of goat you have (meat goats vs. dairy vs. fiber) as their horns all grow in differently. For having goats as pets, you're obviously not going to be showing them, but in the dairy world, your show goat can not have horns as a rule. I agree with the first reply here that said that when you go to buy kids, the decision will already be made for you.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm going to insert a caveat here about grabbing goats by the horns to restrain them. Yes, you can do it, but you have to be very careful. I've known too many people to get hurt that way. Goats do NOT like to be grabbed by the horns and will often shake you off quite violently. It can make them aggressive and/or head shy. When I need to medicate, I prefer to use a stanchion if I can, or I'll restrain the goat's head with a halter. I may slip an arm _behind_ the horns to immobilize him, but I never try to restrain the goat by hanging onto his horns directly. If I have to medicate a horned goat, I always wear eye protection and I'm cautious about where I put my face. I don't want to end up crawling around on the floor in search of my teeth!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think there are reasons for each option. We need to decide, not what is best for everyone, or best overall, but what is best for ourselves.

And yes, @lamancha1234, that does mean learning to do procedures well and appropriately. I'm sorry you lost your kids to disbudding gone wrong, but many people have learned to do it extremely well.

BTW, I have both horned and not horned in my herd and I can certainly see the pros and cons to each.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

To disbud or not .....

I agree that it is a personal decision. And personally I like horns on my pet goats. But I do understand the need to disbud for others.

Just know that you CANNOT accidentally get poked in the eye by a hornless goat.

With horned goats you...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I never have any issues grabbing horns, but this is on Doe's.
It should not be practiced on bucks, as they can get angry from it or over power you. 
Does are different IMO and they can be strong, but I have my pro caught by the horns does who know when I have them by the horns, they are caught and won't fight it, LOL. 

With horns yes, you have to be careful around them, they don't mean to hurt you but, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can get hit.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> I never have any issues grabbing horns, but this is on Doe's.
> It should not be practiced on bucks, as they can get angry from it or over power you.


I don't have much experience with horned does, but from what I've seen, wethers have a similar attitude toward their horns as bucks. They can become quite defensive or aggressive if you grab them. Wethers are not as strong as bucks, but a mature one can still overpower you if they think your horn grab is a challenge. And once an animal knows he can overpower you, it's game over.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I have my pro caught by the horns does who know when I have them by the horns, they are caught and won't fight it, LOL.
> 
> With horns yes, you have to be careful around them, they don't mean to hurt you but, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you can get hit.


Yep. We have goats like that (they know once they're caught they're caught), some that don't care if you grab their horn, and then the ones that fight like a mad bull. So yes what @Damfino said is true. It's a good thing we don't halter train or walk our goats because most of them are head shy due to all the horn grabbing.

And plus our wethers horns are so big they won't fit into a stanchion. Basically it's just hang on. Yes we have had every disaster you are thinking of right now happen. Just be careful to let go if it gets too crazy so they don't break your wrist. If it's a small goat you can straddle it (don't put your weight on them) but if it's a huge goat (like our wethers) and not trained to stand still or you don't have a stanchion that will fit them then it's. . .interesting. Especially once they figure out that you are going to stab them with a needle.

What has happened with ours is that they know you are going to grab their horn, but they make you give them a treat before they will let you. Then depending on the goat they will fight, stand still, etc.

So basically every time we "check" the goats it is quite the adventure.


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

I have both horned and horless goats. Yes you must be more aware and safety orientated aroind those with hones. My husband and laugh when people ask why some are and some are not*the ones that have horns were iusually born here. We both figue they sre born with hornes for a reason


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

21goaties said:


> Yep. We have goats like that (they know once they're caught they're caught), some that don't care if you grab their horn, and then the ones that fight like a mad bull. So yes what @Damfino said is true. It's a good thing we don't halter train or walk our goats because most of them are head shy due to all the horn grabbing.
> 
> And plus our wethers horns are so big they won't fit into a stanchion. Basically it's just hang on. Yes we have had every disaster you are thinking of right now happen. Just be careful to let go if it gets too crazy so they don't break your wrist. If it's a small goat you can straddle it (don't put your weight on them) but if it's a huge goat (like our wethers) and not trained to stand still or you don't have a stanchion that will fit them then it's. . .interesting. Especially once they figure out that you are going to stab them with a needle.
> 
> ...


^ Exactly why we don't grab our pet or working goats by the horns! I don't want those large, dangerous weapons flailing around when I'm trying to love or work with my boys. I got a stanchion with a headpiece that opens up completely so it works with horned goats, and halters are my best friend sometimes. If you control the head, you control the horns without having to grab them.


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## CecilandNellie (Aug 17, 2014)

I have always bought dehorned and tried to dehorn my kids that I keep. The guy who buys my kids wants horns on, handles, so I leave them for him. Last year my most beautiful doe kid did not get burned, I did not think I would keep her but she is so pretty - she stayed. The handles are great, she has been stuck in the fence once. She is due March 3, so I will get to test how these beautiful horns work in the stanchion. Her mother and all her sibs (2 seasons) are polled, so she must be my wonder goat. Axel, sheʻs called. Sibs - Primrose, Sylvester, Maxine, Maeve, and Maude. She is bred to Finch (named because his mother is Scout and Atticus is just too common). I select names from literature and my grandparents families!!


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## Ellie L. F. (Nov 18, 2018)

Damfino said:


> Where in Colorado are you located? I'm in Rye, which is south of Pueblo.


Sorry for the late reply, I'm not able to get on the internet often. 
I'm in Gunnison. a 4 hour drive into the mountains southwest from Denver.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Oh, I know exactly where Gunnison is! I grew up in Lake City. Spent some of the best years of my life there. Gunnison was our "big town" where we bought groceries once a month, went to the dentist, and learned about traffic lights and Wal-Mart.


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## Ellie L. F. (Nov 18, 2018)

Damfino said:


> Oh, I know exactly where Gunnison is! I grew up in Lake City. Spent some of the best years of my life there. Gunnison was our "big town" where we bought groceries once a month, went to the dentist, and learned about traffic lights and Wal-Mart.


Oh Cool! I love Lake City! You're probably aware how cold it gets here then. I wonder if I'll have to get the Nigies a coat?


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

I find it convenient to take my goats by the horns and push them aside if the goats get in my way, or when I cut their hooves. My kids like horns, too.









Goats with horns look to my option more aesthetically pleasing, although you can try to make an effort and make a hornless goat beautiful, Apaches.









Look how beautiful these dwarf goats, with the help of the clicker training and a little time to train, they become obedient.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Ellie L. F. said:


> Oh Cool! I love Lake City! You're probably aware how cold it gets here then. I wonder if I'll have to get the Nigies a coat?


Yep, Gunnison was always about 10* colder than Lake City. We'd stop there for breakfast on the way to ski at Crested Butte. We'd leave at 6:00 in the morning in -20* weather and we'd stop in Gunnison for breakfast and it would be closer to -30* just before the sun came up. Thankfully the sun did come up and warm things a lot earlier in Gunnison than in Lake City. Lake City's in a pretty narrow valley and the sun doesn't peek over the mountains there until 9-9:30 a.m. in midwinter.

My parents and brothers live just over the mountain from you in Salida.


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