# Is she too small?



## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

I was wondering what yall think? Is my almost 2 yr old Nigerian doe too small? She stands at 15-16 inches at the withers, here is a picture of her next to our 5 month old Mini Toggs.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Too small for what?

To breed? most people go by weight/age - over 8 months and over 40lbs.
To show? A doe is ideally between 17 and 19 inches.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Too small for breeding as well as just for being almost 2, I'm just worried about her having any complications with kidding in general. Their is a possibility that she may be bred. Our buck is also a Nigerian and he's 18 in at the withers. When I went to this farm to pick up the Mini Togg girls she had a Nigerian doe who was the same age as ours and she was way bigger in height and size altogether.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

i would breed her sounds like your buck isnt too big. if she weighs at least 30 lbs she should do ok. make sure she is well wormed first and dont be afraid to give her groceries while she is pregnant. my philosophy is that dwarfs are supposed to be dwarfs not just small.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

What is her weight?


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

She looks fine to me.  

I think some Nigerians are just smaller than others. For example a lady I got my newest doeling from had some that were the same age but would clearly not be ready for breeding this year. But, my two doelings will be right on track to be bred in December. She also had some full grown FF does that we're waay smaller than my FF doe.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

at that height, her proportions matter more than her size. Her wieght does matter, but is her rump straight vs. steep, are her hips set wide enough apart or does she have a narrow rear end with her feet close togehter. Does she have a wide and deep barrel (body) in relation to her legs....if she's wide and doesn't have an overly steep rump, is healthy and not a doe that has trouble keeping weight on, I'd breed her. I might find a buck that either comes from smaller lines or at least not one who throws large kids...but I'd get her bred. It can be hard if you wait too long to breed too


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

She is small in stature but has a good barrel on her and she is wide. She is about 40lbs. I just hope all goes well, if she is pg she'd be at 3 months now, but I'm not sure if she settled as she doesn't look pg yet. I bred her about 6 months ago and she never settled.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If she is bred you will soon find out  she looks about as wide as the girl next to her. Like what was said above I am looking more in the hip area. I have had smaller sized girls with wide hips do better then the pigs with narrow hips lol.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Goats are so tricky lol. I wish there was an easy way to tell for sure is she is indeed pg. One person I've talk to said she didn't know her doe was pg till she walked out one morning and seen two brand new kids nursing on her!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Well, a grown ND doe should be around 75 lbs, so she is a bit small. Maybe she was stunted by cocci at one point or something. She looks healthy though.  I had a ND doe that was probably 30-35 lbs that accidentally got bred when she she was a year or so. I sold her cause I didn't want to see her die, but the new owners said she kidded just fine! I was amazed, but glad she made it. Anyway, I think she could be bred fine, like others said.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

littlehooves said:


> Goats are so tricky lol. I wish there was an easy way to tell for sure is she is indeed pg. One person I've talk to said she didn't know her doe was pg till she walked out one morning and seen two brand new kids nursing on her!


Take a pic of her pooch and put on here. I have no clue how these people can tell off that lol but seem to know. I go off bags. I'll be a little pervert here soon going around feeling and looking at bags  but I think at 3 months bred they can tell by a picture.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Is she papered? She may have pygmy in her.

My Pyg, Peggy Sue, is 16 inches, too. That's the bottom end of show standard for Pygs. I bred her to a young ND mix buck who ended up being 22 inches when he was full grown, and she was ok. Had to pull her buckling, but she was a ff and only had to tug a little and he had a leg back.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

She very well could be a pyg/nigie cross. I haven't had any cocci problems here but maybe she did have it at her previous owners, I got her when she was 5 months I think. I will post some pictures of her pooch tomorrow on this thread. She is looking a little bit rounder but not really pg looking.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Wow I'm sorry, I just realized I never posted any pooch pics like I said I was gonna! Our buck was in with her in the the beginning of July to about mid July. What do yall think?


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Um....a pooch pic usually means her rear end.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

And her backside


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

She looks a little rounder then usual but not really sure what to think, can you usually tell at 3 months?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I go off bags and she looks to be maybe starting one but I'm a hands on person on telling. I have a doe that was bred in July and she has a little start to her bag.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> Take a pic of her pooch and put on here. I have no clue how these people can tell off that lol but seem to know. I go off bags. I'll be a little pervert here soon going around feeling and looking at bags  but I think at 3 months bred they can tell by a picture.


LOL you guys I have never seen so many up close pooch shots in my life these past 5 days since I joined TGS! And they all look the same to me I cannot tell either ( I have been staring at my little goat pooches to compare, they just look like healthy little pooches to me)...


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

CAjerseychick said:


> LOL you guys I have never seen so many up close pooch shots in my life these past 5 days since I joined TGS! And they all look the same to me I cannot tell either ( I have been staring at my little goat pooches to compare, they just look like healthy little pooches to me)...


I can't tell the difference either! :laugh:


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> I go off bags and she looks to be maybe starting one but I'm a hands on person on telling. I have a doe that was bred in July and she has a little start to her bag.


I'm not sure it's still pretty taught her bag, can you tell if she's starting a bag because it would feel softer and a little squishy?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That's how I am!!!! I even spent like a hour straight reading on what to look for. They say if the point points down bred but I have some I know are not bred that point down. I can tell when they are really far along by the pooch but still that bag told me way before that especially in ff.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I know, I really can't ever tell the difference at all! :shrug: Sometimes I think it's like how some people do the diving rod thing to find water-just works for some people and not others.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

OK Jessica84 I am rereading the Pooch pics sticky too to see what that means "points down"... Hmmmmm....


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

SO it appears the whole anus/ vulva section slides straight down alittle vs being up under the tail more?
Then I am in trouble, my little gals' are straight down and kinda elongated little vulvas.... (nigerians, 1/4 togg)....


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Not in trouble your gonna have kids  just make sure your there with her. 
But I give up on the pooch because I will go out with ones I know are bred and ones I know are open and its just all mixed up. If I didn't know better I would say some are bred that I know are open and that some of my bred does are open. I agree I think some people have the gift and others just don't. If you put a cow in front of me I could tell you but not these goats lol


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Shh, dont tell the folks that use it, but I kind of wonder if that method even works....


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Byccombe said:


> Shh, dont tell the folks that use it, but I kind of wonder if that method even works....


Lol I know!!! I have been at trying to figure this out for a year now and I hate to think I'm just that slow lol


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Me too.


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## Casa_la_Palma (Oct 15, 2013)

hallsthirdacrefarm said:


> at that height, her proportions matter more than her size. Her wieght does matter, but is her rump straight vs. steep, are her hips set wide enough apart or does she have a narrow rear end with her feet close togehter. Does she have a wide and deep barrel (body) in relation to her legs....if she's wide and doesn't have an overly steep rump, is healthy and not a doe that has trouble keeping weight on, I'd breed her. I might find a buck that either comes from smaller lines or at least not one who throws large kids...but I'd get her bred. It can be hard if you wait too long to breed too


Could someone explain further what is meant here by a straight vs. steep rump? Learning here, Thanks :help:


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Just remember, flatter is better- more correct, anatomically.


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## Casa_la_Palma (Oct 15, 2013)

Wonderful,Thank You Texaslass!!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

You're welcome!


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## awshucksgoatfarmvt (May 11, 2012)

I don't believe I will ever find a buck small enough when the time comes for my two smaller does. Both are eight months usually with till they are a year half before breeding. 
Kandu is 12 inches to the withers and 13 inches long and 11 lb.
Me Too is 14 inches and just over 16 inches long and 16 lb. 
They are not related in any way. 
When the time comes I would love to breed them to a very mini nubian if the vet feels it is ok for them


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I've been told that the doe determines the size of the kids, so I wouldn't give up hope! 
I would NOT recommend it, but I did hear of a nigerian doe being bred to a boer once and having tiny little mini boers without a problem, but I think that was a bit of a miracle.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

awshucksgoatfarmvt said:


> I don't believe I will ever find a buck small enough when the time comes for my two smaller does. Both are eight months usually with till they are a year half before breeding.
> Kandu is 12 inches to the withers and 13 inches long and 11 lb.
> Me Too is 14 inches and just over 16 inches long and 16 lb.
> They are not related in any way.
> When the time comes I would love to breed them to a very mini nubian if the vet feels it is ok for them


How old are those does? They seem like they are very light weight - too light.


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## awshucksgoatfarmvt (May 11, 2012)

Good Morning
Kandu my smallest of one of five kids the first two are now normal size. The 3rd and fifth ones did not make. I could put two of Kandu in the plan of my hand when she was born. For a fleeting moment I was doing to let her go but she looked up at me ...............dam those eyes and Maaaaaaaa. And went from there, 
The other little one the mom would have nothing to do with. Vet said she looked fine and everything sounded good one the inside. He mom is abut 22 lb and the dad around 28. Kandu's mom is around 35 and so is the dad. 
The mom is and dad are unregistered pygmy and ND


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## woodranch (Aug 27, 2012)

My 17" girl bred herself at a year and a half old. Bred herself meaning she broke into the boy pen cause she was small enough to squeeze through. LOL She delivered twins, but I did have to help pull the second cause it was breech. As long as you are with her during kidding, she should be just fine.


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