# Preggy Nubian Question (Pics page 5!!))



## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Hello!!!

I am normally a Pygmy addict and this is my one and only nubian. She is supposed to be due June 29th but she donesnt seem "developed" enough to be due then. THis will be her first freshening. I know that Nubians are dairy goats so she should have a HUGE udder, right?

She has an udder but its MUCH smaller than I anticiated. do nubian FFs usually fill after? or what?

























I know this one is really blurry but I thought I would post everything I had to get a better "diagnosis"









THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT!!!

CJ


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

when would her due date be?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I would say she has another 3 weeks?? But I did have a doe (nigerian) kid the other day. She had the smallest bag I have ever seen for being just a couple days away from kidding! Couldn't even believe it. It filled up VERY QUICKLY the night before she was due, just completely ballooned! Your doe doesn't seem real puggy in the back end though?? Hmmm, not sure on this one! By the way,,,beautiful girl you have!! Love those spots!


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## nhsmallfarmer (Apr 14, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

The first time I bred my Nubian, Brandy, I thought the same when it came her time to kid, her udder was way to small, about 2 weeks after she kidded she had a nice full udder.
I wouldnt worry
she is beautiful by the way


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

WOW to be due June 29tyh, she looks like my FF did when she dropped a beautiful baby. I would say keep a eye on her and you never know. ALL GOATS ARE DIFFERENT. I would say only one baby for sure. My FF got the bag after she delivered.
What does her ligs feel like? Are they loose at all? I never felt my girls because I did not realize she was that close.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*



AlaskaBoers said:


> when would her due date be?


June 29th.



sweetgoats said:


> What does her ligs feel like? Are they loose at all? I never felt my girls because I did not realize she was that close.


Hre ligaments feel deep down and a perhaps a little lax. I have been checking her ligaments twice a day everyday and I have not really felt any change for about 2 weeks. This girl is not all that friendly so catching her is a real pain but I know that if I ever want to catch her in labor, I have to check those ligaments!!!

I have another doe (pygmy) due July 8th whose bag is about the same size. She looks ready....but she isnt a FF either.

IDK this one is racking my brain!!

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

did you breed her or did you purchase her bred? Sometimes a breeder will give you the first due date and forget that there was this possible second.

But I agree with what the others said - she could easily bag up quickly before kidding or after. Not all goats are the same


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

She was bred here. I am (or was) 100% sur eof her due date but since she hasnt developed normally, I am begining to doubt my date...........these girls like to mess with me!!

LOL!
CJ


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

We also run our buck with the herd so I guess you can never be 100% sure unless you actually "set up" the breeding like people have to when they seperate their does and bucks.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

there is a chance you didnt' see a second breeding then if she didn't settle on the first.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

YEs, Stacey, I suppose your right. Its always a possibility. My mom and I are very much into our goats. We go downto the barn to feed or play 4 or 5 times a day. While its unlikely we missed her comming back into heat, there is a slight chance.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I don't doubt it. I am sure you are a good "butt checker" like I am :ROFL:

But you know the drill, watch her like a hawk till her due date passes and then :hair: till she decides to kid a few weeks later :GAAH:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

LOL! EXACTLY!!! And the fact that she is an FF and I dont know her "normals" doesnt help.

I have another pygmy doe due the 8th that is awesomely predictable. She ALWAYS kids betwee noon and 3 pm on day 148 with twins. Her ligaments are always gone about 10 hrs before kidding and the discharge is alway present about an hour from kidding. Her udder explodes over night and her face gets really fat. She always stays in the barn the day of and talks A LOT! She never has any problems kidding **knock on wood**

I wish all my girls were as predictable and easy as she is.
CJ


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

More than once I've seen my first fresheners(dairy) come in with not a lot of milk. Usually with first fresheners they tend to really come into milk about 2 weeks after kidding. FF are not near as engourged before kidding as the older does are. And every goat is different, she may get really big right before she kids.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

SO! Just a little update, no kids yet. Udder has grown a little bit. Ligs this morning were practically gone...they hardened back up again....then when we put them up for the night....practically gone aga in!!! This girl is wacky!!! :hair:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

make sure you dont' check her ligaments right after she peed or pooped as they will feel soft at that point. Wait a bit and then check again.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

As of 12:30 am, we have no ligaments and a little discharge. It was the same when I checked her this morning. Her legs look really posty but other than that, no other signs of distress. Im officially on baby watch with her............ ray:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preg Nubian-HELP please!*

I need a little help!
Splash had a single boy at 1:50 this afternoon. He is beautiful. I am concerned because it is 4:15 and the little boy has not been able to stand yet. Not even close. I gave him some artificial colostrom at 3:40 and then 10 minutes later mom laid down and I put him to her udder and he sucked for a good minute. Mom is very testy and will not allow me to milk her without a huge fight and I have no help right now to do it. I feel comfortable that he has enough nourishment right now, but concerned because he is not standing. He will try for a few seconds, give up, then lay down to rest. I set him up on all fours and his back legs straighten and then buckle.
Does anyone know how long Nubian/Pygmy cross kids take to stand? Pygmys stand within 45 minutes to an hour. Is this normal for this breed?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

He should have been up looking for that teat just like any newborn kid would do...it's great that he did eat but check his legs out and make sure they feel normal, I've not ever had a need to use it but a selenium gel might be in order for the little guy. Congrats on his birth and I hope you can get a pic for us.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I think this boy is very over cooked (but then again I dont know nubians) His testicles have already dreopped and his horns are more deleloped than usual. His teeth are also pink? Any ideas? Almost as if they are blood shot. The muscles in his legs are shaking a little. He responds to pain and touch in all 4 feet and along the back so I dont think its a nuerological problem. Is it possible that his muscles are not yet developed wnough for his weight? We gave him nutridrench at 6:00 (which has selenium in it) and we will be nursing out mom tonight (more people) and bottle feeding him. What else can I try to give him to get him to stand/walk??


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I also have a webcam if anyone needs to see what he does when I try to stand him up.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Here's a few pics:










































Here are the teeth:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

yes he needs selenium ASAP that kid is just fine besides needing nurishment and a little mineral help. Try getting some BoSe

some kids are just born with horns ready to be burned - that doesn't make him overcooked. As to his testicles being dropped --- pretty normal too


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

He's certainly smaller than what I thot a newborn kinder would be!! He looks healthy and adorable too, I've had little guys born with buds and dropped testicles so I think he's right on time...but do try and get some selenium into him and work with him, supporting him as he stands it will help build up strength and the selenium could cure what is wrong.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I dont have any selenium past....is there anything else I can give him? that has selenium?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

if you have loose minerals you can place some of that on his tongue a couple times to help him absorb it. Not the best but it might work.

I wish I knew some other options but off top my head I don't


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

If I get it and give it to him tomorrow, will it still work?

Thank you!!


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

does tractor supply have selenium paaste??


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I found a selenium tablet (for people) 200mc. Can he have this and how much?

Chelsi


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I don't think they carry it..is there a vet nearby that you may be able to get some from? Or even another breeder you can contact to see if they would have any? I do know that you can get it thru Jeffers but you don't want to wait that long to get it into the little guy.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

They have the tablets at walgreens


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

i've never had a kid stay down that long. though i have had one stay down for about 3 hours..

i dont see why you couldn't give a selenium tablet to him.. i'd crush it and put a little under the tounge at a time

he is perty!


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Ok, so you think I shouldn't syringe it to him? Thank you so much for your reply!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

i think it may absorb faster under the tounge


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

OK! I gave him a quarter tablet (for now) per my dads suggestion. I mixed it with a tiny amount of water to make a paste-ish thing and put it under his tongue. How ofter do you think I should give it?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

He seems a bit better today,. He has been able to get up on all fours for a second or 2 before he collapses. I gave him some more selenium, I hope this works! ray: for him!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

oh thats really good.

so how are you feeding him? still holding mom?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

CJ...I wouldn't have known the doseage because I never had the situation you have now...I'm glad he's doing better for you and I hope he continues ro do well. And WOW...8 pounds...he doesn't look as though he'd be but 5!!


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Truthfully, I havent weighed him yet. The 8 lb was just an estimate compared to my 10 lb toy poodle.

His mom is psycho and very very unfriendly. We were able to get about 8 oz of colostrum for him which he has already had. My mom had to go take pictures for her work and when she comes back we will have to tackle her again to milk out some more. He is on milk replacer (I know, I know) until my mom gets home. It took 3 of us to get the colostrum and she still was able to flip around. We have a milking stand but she kicks at us when we touch her udder (its not painful or anything she just isnt tame) so when we got the colostrum, we had to lay her on her side and I had to sit on her front end and my sister had to sit on her rear legs while my mom got the milk.

Any suggestion to stop the kicking on the stand? I was thinking about tieing her legs to each side but I dont want to hurt her.

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

what you can do is put her on the milking stand and have someone hold her legs up in the air. Hold it by the area above the hocks not near her hooves. YOu can even squeeze that tendon (they hate that and usually don't kick after that, it doesn't hurt them though so don't worry). I do this all the time to let Kitten nurse off any of the other moms as they throw a fit if she tries to nurse.

Then as she gets better and better you can continue to hold her legs but try to let them down on the stand so that she gets use ot being milked and not kicking.

Also milk into something small and when you get a couple squirts or so dump it into a bigger bucket. This way if she does kick you don't loose it all.

I had one lay down on me and that was tough! Ashely showed me how she uses twine and brings it up and around the front legs of the doe (under her chest) and then ties it to the top of the head piece on the stand. This way if she tries to lay down it pushes up into her chest and under her arm pits which of course she doesnt like so she would stand back up right away. So as long as she stood nicely she didn't feel the twine but if she tried to lay down she would. Worked like a charm. Aspen now stands nicely for me on the milking stand :stars:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Thank you so much Stacey! I will DEFINANTLY try your tips when we get her on the stand. I also didnt think of dupping it into a bucket or something! Great idea!! Thank you!

I feel so bad for her because she didnt do anything wrong but I cant leave him down with her because he will never eat and will probably be beat up or stepped on by my donkey because he cant stand up or walk. Im hoping that once he starts standing and walking, she will take him back.

CJ


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Well, some GREAT news!

I took him outside in the grass to go potty and I set him on all 4's and let go and he stood!!! he stood for a good 30 seconds then fell. Well.....he got himself back up again!!! All by himself!!! He was getting up and standing for a minute then he would fall then get back up again! HE did this like 4 or 5 times!!! I am sooo happy!! I think one more dose of selenium is really going to help! I am going to wait until later tonight to do tghat though!! YEAH!!!! Thank you guys so much!!

I am going to try to capture a video of him when I take him out again and I will attempt to post it on here so everyone can see!!!

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

so awesome!!! :leap:

one thing to now add to your med kit is the selenium vitamine E gel from jeffers. It is labled for goats and would save you the trouble of wondering how much is to much.

I woudl only give him one more dose and then see how he does from there. he is going to need to build his strength and that is something that he has to do on his own.

Good work for figuring out what to use.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Well, he seems to be getting stronger by the minute! Wew did another 1/4 tablet of selenium and were able to milk out mom thanks to Stacey's great advice. We got 12 oz from her! Not sure if thats good or bad. I probably could have gotten more but I didnt want to milk her out to much (if there is such a thing.....)

He stood and walked a good amount of time and length. I will keep you updated!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Thats great CJ :leap: Keep her milked totally out twice a day if you can or even try and giver her the baby back she may take him and as long as he keeps improving with standing he'll do well, unless of course you want him as a bottle baby, then milking 2x a day will give you the milk to feed him and you won't need the replacer...do you grain her when she's on the stand? If so, then take it away when she acts up...it helped with my doe...who is now willing to be milked then get her grain afterwards.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I actually did give her grain when she was on the stand and she was actually pretty easy! She got a little fussy towards the end of the grain but we put more in and she was fine!

I am planning on givieng him back to her when he is able to stand really well. I would have given him back today but I have a donkey and other goats that could possibly step on him. My last mom decided to tear apart my birthing pen gate so I cant even put them in there.

Mom is very attentive when we brign him down for supervised visits so I dont think she will have a problem with taking him back.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

oh this is just wonderful news. I would keep milking her as you can since she is a nubian and it will help to tame her down too.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

The little boy is doing very very well. He is getting stronger by the minutes and we actually took him down to the barn to stay with mom in our birthing pen all day today. We have been going down to the barn to check on him every couple of hours. He has been nuring off her!!! YEAH!!!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

:leap: :stars:

way to go! you did a great job :hi5:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Thanks! I couldnt have done it without all of you guys!!

We have decided to leave him in the barn with her for the night. :shrug: a little nervouse but he is doing so well and Splash is being a really good mom for her first time.

Which means I dont have to get up through the night!!! YAH! :stars: (secretly...I probably will to go check on him......)

I am so glad we were able to get him back on her, it really is whats best for him.....

Thank you all so very very much for your help!

CJ


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

That is SOO awesome!! I am so glad he is doing so well. And what a CUTIE he is, to cute for his own good!

You did an awesome job with him.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Oh my! I just got caught up on this topic, I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this! And your poor little guy! So happy everybody is giving you such good advice. I've heard vitamin e is given with selenium to make it absorb better? Is this "floppy kid syndrome"? I got some Bo-Se from the Vet, for emergencies. I think I did see Selenium gel at TSC. Hang in there cj, sounds like you've done a great job. :hug: He's so pretty!


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I didn't know she kidded!!! Congratulations and he is downright adorable!!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

oh and I need more pictures of the adorable fellow!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

CJ...Thats great that he is doing so well...and even better that Splash is being such a great mommy!! :leap:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

HAPPY ENDING!!! :wahoo:

He is now down with his mom 24/7 he is super fat and heavy and nursing everytime we go down to the barn. He is still a little "new" on those legs but I think he will continue to improve. Splash is still very very attentive and talks/calls to him constantly. I am soooo happy!!

I will deffinantly get more pictures tomorrow! I wish he was female!! We would have kept him.......

This is why I LOVE goatspot, while you have certain problems that you get 500 different answer to, there are those problems that the years and years of experiences combined lead to one right answer, speeding up treatment and recovery.
You guys are great!!!

I do have a question though: Do you wether nubian/pygmy's at 5 weeks like normal? or sooner?

I have 2 more to kid this month.......hopefully I will not have this problem ever again.
CJ


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I would imagine that being a bit bigger than a pygmy he will be easier to get a hold of earlier but I personally don't band until they are 6-7 weeks old.

Maybe since you've had this issue with this little guy, it might be best to give the next kids a dose of selenium when they arrive, if Splash was selenium deficient the other 2 may be as well...just a thought :greengrin:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I was thinking the same thing Liz. Considering one of the 2 to kid has given me 2 sets of kids since we have had her....both sets were QUADS! :roll: I DONT need 4 little babies unable to walk and nurse!

Atleast we now know that you can use people selenium tablets if you dont have the gel......I swear everything I do with these guys turns into a learning experience!!!I wonder if the size of the goat has anything to do with the defficiency, you know what I mean? I have never had this problem with my pygmys but my one and only large breed nubian has an issue?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I don't know...maybe the "smaller" mommies don't need as much or they are just more efficient with their "use" :shrug: I've not had an issue yet here with it ...I feed a pre mixed grain that has selenium in it and their minerals have it as well....the only issue I had with a kids legs came about with a teeny triplet doe AFTER she went to her new home and had been there for 5 weeks, we figured it was a birth defect of sorts. Well you have what you need just in case you end up in the same boat....and had very good results too so thats a plus for those new babies to be...they have a "grammy" that knows what to do if they need help :hug:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

OH MAN!!! Grammy at 18! *faints* :help:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

did you recently get her? like just before she was bred? IF her condition was less then ideal when you got her then you bred her she probably didn't have enough stores of selenium to pass it onto her kid properly.

IT doesn't hurt to give the moms a dose of selenium and the kids some when they are born. I plan to do this every year now after dealing with tube feeding kids for a week!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*



> OH MAN!!! Grammy at 18! *faints* :help:


 :ROFL: You think "goat mama" is better??


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Yes, she was bred about a month after we got her. Mabe a little less. The people we got her from kept her and 2 other nubians and a donkey jack in a dirt pasture with very little forage. THey would feed them oats everyday but very little grain and no mineral block.

Here, they have 3 acres of grass pasture with logs and trees etc PLUS when the forage gets low (or we just feel like having goats and donkeys and chickens on our back porch), we let them on another 3 acres where the house is with even more variety of farage.

We used to have free mineral block but stopped for 2 reasons. 1. they seemed to be getting enough from our pastures and 2. my donkey eats the entire block in less than a day :roll:

I really think the difference in care/ keeping really has an effect on the health of the goats and there babies. I need to figure out a way to have the mineral block but keep my mini donkey AND one ewe out of it.... Any ideas??


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

LOL! A little better....... :thumbup:

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

well it goes to show you that your management is working.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

DANG IT!!! I forgot the pictures!!! :angry: I am so sorry!!! I got a little busy with staff meetings and work and blah blah blah. I will attempt to get some tomorrow!! Ill also have other pics of my 2 girls that are supposed to be due....Im beginging to doubt that they are due..... ANYWAYS!!! I will get some of the baby when I get theirs.

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

I dont know guys.... should we string her up by her toes? :wink:

Tis ok CJ whenever you get the chance. I need babies to oo over :drool:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: Preggy Nubian Question*

Here are the pictures!!!! I had a video but my silly donkey decided to keep stepping in front of my camera!!! :doh:

HE DOESNT STOP EATING! LOL!









Hummm....I think Ill eat that rock!









The grass is always greener!









He was watching the dog









Here are a few pics of Twins news kids born the same day as Splahs's









Male eating a stick









Female


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

ADORABLE!!! New babies are always so sweet....congrats on the twins AND the little guy that amazed us all!! :stars:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

so sweet! all three are just to adorable for words.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Awwwwwwwwwwww


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