# Horns recently banded now Shivering



## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I am hoping for some advice. I have a goat that is acting sick right now. Her temp is 101.5, but she got wet in rain today and is shivering.

Her horns were recently banded because she severely injured my dog, and the horns are in the process of falling off so she is uncomfortable.

I have been giving her kids tylenol for the pain, but I also have antibiotics. She has also lost weight and isn't eating much grain or hay.

Should I give her penicillin, if so, how many ml's for the injection? What else can I do to help her? Please help me ASAP, she is not looking good.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

id dry her off real good with a towel.. and warm her up.. Maybe give some vit B complex and see what happens..I wouldn't give antibiotics just yet..
Prayers sent for your girl! Best of luck!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Poor girl, Temp is good but keep a watch for it to drop..she is at the low end of normal....How do the horn beds look? any infection? I would give her Adult aspirin instead of Tylenol, which is not good for goat...
Pen G is an option if her horn bed doesn't look good...1 cc per 20# daily for 5-7 days..Sub Q ..be sure to draw back on the plunger ..if you see blood, re adjust and try again..do not inject in vein..
I would also give her B complex for appitite and energy...offer green leaves to help her "want" to eat..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

For better relief for pain,,,Banamine is a good short term choice...she can have 1 cc per 100# once a day for three days..this might help her over this hump...it is RX so you need to ask your vet for it..


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks everybody! I just gave her different hay and she is pigging out. 

Also, she is a small goat, about 40 pounds, I am not giving tyloernol, it's baby as[prin


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad she is eating...Im sure her head hurts..baby aspirin is fine : ) tylanol and Ibuprofen should be not be used in goats


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I just checked on her, and I think what happened is my genius husband insisted we let her out with the rest of the goats this morning because she seemed sad, she is not the friendliest goat and likes to head butt the others. When Iheard her screaming I went running and she was fighting with one of the others, and I think she was just in shock from the pain she incurred while fighting and that might be why she was shaking? ?

She is no logner shaking and is loving the new bale of hay. lol. This is the first time we have ever banded a goats horns so we are really unsure about what to expect, but one of her horns is already crooked so I am hoping it falls off ASAP.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..that would certainly cause pain! : ) glad she is settled down...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Keep any head butting from happening, that has to hurt.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Just an update about Francine! She is doing MUCH better this morning. One horn fell off and the other will be in a day or two. She is also putting weight back on!  Thanks everyone for the help!


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Glad she is doing better. Can I ask how long it took for her horns to fall off?


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Absolutely, her horns took 1 week to come off, but I need to add in that her horns weren't too large. She is a very small goat, less than 50 pounds. You need to make sure to use at minimum 2 bands, and I advise you cut a groove on each side of the horns so that the bands stay in place. Don't cut too deep, and use asprin before you put the bands on because once they realize the discomfort, they will scream for a day or two.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is better


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Glad she's ok... do you have a pic of what newly done banded horns look like? I am curious


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

My last doe that i banded horns on shivered and did a lot of teeth grinding just before they came off. I felt awful for her but it has been a very wise choice for her and everyone, including her, is much happier now that those horns are off.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I will post a pic of what it looks like after the second horn comes off. I am hoping that happens tonight!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Do you think banding an adult goats horns would work as fast/at all? I have stronger stuff than aspirin, so I should be able to get it done cleanly with out her feeling it. She is deadly with her horns and I don't plan to show her. I'd like to take her horns off.
I'll be waiting for a picture


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

^^ I'd like to add, I know how to do it, but have never heard of it being done on an adult. So I was just wondering since you had success


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## dezak91 (Feb 22, 2013)

Little bits, we had to band an adults horns because she was wicked with them. Her horns were about 1 inch or slightly more in diameter. Do this when the flies are dormant and once the horns fall off then pack the sinus cavity with some swat and within about 2-3 days the cavity will close. We have never had anyone shiver or act in pain at all after banding the horns. Some get a little spooky when the horn starts to fall off, especially if it is hanging on by a thread, until it falls off. I have no problem banding scurs, in fact I have one that needs to be done now.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Dezak91, How long did it take her horns to fall off? This doe is the wicked witch of the west with her horns!

Was your doe nicer after she no longer had horns?


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## dezak91 (Feb 22, 2013)

I want to say with her it was 3 or 4 weeks and once they were off she lost her status and is the lowest of the adult goats on the pecking order. She is a much more pleasant goat. Just make sure you put a LOT of bands on over each other so there is more constriction. There is no doubt they can feel the bands but I really don't think there is pain. None of ours have ever exhibited any signs of pain so I will continue to band horns. They sure look prettier without those ugly scurs.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I completely agree with you on this. I am still waiting for the horn to come off, but after it does I have 1 other "mean" doe who I will be doing this to. Sometimes it just has to happen!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Just wondering if you ever got any pics of the horn after it fell off.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I was wondering too....


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Glad to hear Francine is doing better  
What a relief this must be for you !


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Did you mean a photo of the horns that fell off, or what her head looks like after they fell off?


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

I am going to be doing a couple boys soon and am looking for all the info I can get. Pics of her head after would be great. Do you have any in progress pictures??


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## ms_sl_lee (Feb 8, 2013)

I'd sure like to know too. I have a 7 month old Billy that has torn two jean dresses on me already. He is a Nigerian Dwarf but still it hurts. I've got all these little bruises on my legs. He's small enough I can grab him by a horn and I've tried dropping to the ground when he butts me. Didn't work, he still butts. Will dehorning help stop him and what dangers are there to banding them?


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## maggiemusher (Jul 2, 2013)

We just banded a 1 year old Nubian/Apline doe yesterday. My friend shaved the fur around the bottom of the horn, and then applied duck tape around the bottom and put 2 bands at the bottom of the duct tape on each horn. Her horns are wide at the bottom, a good inch or more. I can post pictures of what it looks like as the progress goes on. She hasn't been crying, but seems a little depressed this morning. She is eating fine, I saw her use her horns to push the 2 month old doeling out of the grain this morning, so I'm very glad we decided to do this.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

This was my experience banding the scours/horns off my doe. First off she was dehorned as a baby but apparently it was not done right and her horns started growing. When they were approx 2 inch long we decided to band. One horn fell off in about 2-3 weeks and looked good. The other just didn't seem to be working, I put another band over because it looked like the band wasn't tight. I don't remember how long into the banding but she started acting in severe pain. Screaming, rolling her head back, I thought she was dying. I put her up by herself and gave her pain meds and the horn looked like it bent and was still hanging on. She was taken to vet where the vet cut it off with a wire saw and it was BLOODY and then had to reburn the whole area (and Im talking the whole top of her head) It was very traumatic to watch and FAR worse than dehorning a young kid. She was very sensitive in her head and still is head shy. Despite all that she still grew funny looking partial horns on both.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Maggiemusher, I would love for you to start a thread with pics as the banding progresses. I am sure there are lots of others that would love to see. Starting now...go......lol......


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I will try to snap a photo today of Francine. I didn't do the procedure as best as I could have and she is probably going to have scurs later on but it's worth it. She is healthy, happy, and no longer a violent little devil. Just make sure to use more than 1 band, and its good to use a file to cut notches in the horns to hold the bands in place. When they fell off there was minimal blood, and I used BlueKote on it to help numb it and keep from infection. She did just fine and is completely back to normal. Also, make sure to give them a pain killer before you put them on because they absolutely will be uncomfortable. Since she was only 40 pounds at the time, I have her a baby asprin.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

That is a good point. I will make sure I use a pain killer before doing it. Glad she is doing god, it gives others hope when we hear a good outcome.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I'd love to see an after picture as I just picked up a buckling with scurs. They are a few inches long and flipping back into his head already


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

^^ I banded three doe kids a few months ago, their horns came off in about 21-27 days I would say. They were 5 month old kids, around 60lbs or so. I'll see if I can get a picture of the tops of their heads. The are pretty much all healed up, they just have a small scab spot still. Some of their horns came off a bit early, and the sinus was open about the size of a dime or so, so I just sort of pressed a small piece of tissue paper over the sinus so nothing fell in, the paper stayed their for long enough that the hole closed up. 
You'd never even know that the had horns, I have before pics too, so you can see, I'll post pics in a bit


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

I look forward to seeing them.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I didn't get the pics of the tops of their heads today, but I flipped through the pics on my phone and found some pics of them with the horns, then some pics after the had the bands on for about 2 weeks, and then I have a pic of the top of their head a few days after the horns came off. 
As soon as my phone gets enough power (its on the charger at the moment) I'll post those, and I'll get the current pics in the morning I promise! 
I just forgot to do it, I had some company today, sorry!  But hold on just a minute for the other pics!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok so here are the does before banding.








2 weeks with the band's








A horn








Couple days after the horns came off. The goats right horn base has a bigger scab because it came off too early, so it did bleed a bit, but not bad. The other base is what it should look like when they fall off on their own time. Then they heal up a bit more and the hair grows over, just like a disbudded kid


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Great pics! So the horns don't continue to grow back? That would be great


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

sassykat6181 said:


> Great pics! So the horns don't continue to grow back? That would be great


It depends. In my experience in younger goats if you get the bands placed properly they don't usually grow back. In older goats sometimes you will get some regrowth but it is really slow.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

What a beautiful trio of girls. Oberhaslis. Thanks for sharing the pictures. Did you notice any pain or anything different when you placed the bands on?? I think the green bands are too small for my boys horns so not sure what I am going to do about that.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Definitely going to band the new bucklings scurs. He's 7 months and they twist and curl back into his head. Going on a short trip 1/12-1/15, so i'll do it when I get back. Don't want to be worrying about him. I'll take pics during the process


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Thank you, they were triplets! 

I did a more surgical method when I placed the bands on. I shaved the horn base area, slipped a few cc' s of lidocaine under the skin 180° around the front of the horn base, on each base. And I rubbed the base for about a minute. Then I took a scalpel and made an incision 180° around the base right below the horn ridge. Then I placed the bands into the incisions so they would stay.
With the lidocaine, they don't feel a thing when you make the cut with the scalpel, or place the bands on. Give it about a minute or two for it to deaden the area, test it by pricking the needle on the skin, if they feel it, it's not kicked in yet, if they don't feel it, proceed with the scalpel.

After the whole thing is said and done, they will begin to feel it in 30-45 minutes, sometimes an hour. The biggest girls did cry a bit for the first day, and the littlest one had no problem, she took it like a champ. After the first day they all acted just fine.
They will shake their head and cry if they butt heads when the horns get loose, like a disbudded kid when they bump their heads. 

For me, I found it easier to put the bands on the kids with shorter horns, but I also did bands on an adult doe, and it was really easy to put the bands on. The band's went over the adult does horns pretty easy, they'd probably go over a wether easily, but a buck would probably be impossible to band.

I'm about to go and feed, so I'll take a pic of what the base looks like now.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Well he's 7 months and the scurs are pretty gnarly  I think it is worth a try to band them. He is the sweetest little buck and I just got him


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Here's today's pics, both are of a different doeling.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yep, I'd clip them a bit so they aren't growing into his head, then band them.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Those heads look awesome.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I am so sorry this took so long! I know you all wanted to see what her horn looked like. One of them came off clean, and the other one is deformed, but I still think she is a beautiful girl. I love her very much. When I nap outside in the summer, she naps with me on my lap. Here is a video where you can see the deformed horn, I shot it yesterday.


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