# Disbudding with dehorning paste



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I know some people absolutely disagree with this method, however I wanted to just post pics of the before and after pics...

So I disbudded with the paste today, my sister from FL was here to help... Here are a few pics... I will then show some in a few weeks... Before paste (shaved) with paste and then the finished product on Ellie the little girl




















Yes you need to be very careful... This is actually the second time I've used it, but the first time I waited too long for the bucklings, so it didn't work on them.. Today's went really well though..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks for the post. If it works for you that is all that matters.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

How did you restrain the kid while the past did its work


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

fivemoremiles said:


> How did you restrain the kid while the past did its work


We held the kids.


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## Kathrin (Feb 26, 2016)

Is the paste red? I'm assuming it's the Dr. Naylors? I use Dr. Larson's and it's white so I was surprised at the red and thought it was blood at first. : > I like using paste better than disbudding with an iron. I'm glad to see more folks posting about it.


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## snowhorse07 (Jul 3, 2016)

This is the first post I have come across for dehorning goats with a paste, which makes me quite happy! I have been curious if it was alright to use a paste on goats, as anything I have seen is listed for calves, I figured it was too caustic for such small sizes. At what age do you normally dehorn kids in general? We normally do not dehorn, but have gotten in to selling kids for 4h the last few years. Usually we have not had an issue, just informed interested people they would need dehorned once they got them. However, I was talking to one of the kids who bought from us this year, and she said when she had hers in to the vets they should have been dehorned long before then. and something about he was beginning to grow deep roots on the horn so they had to go deeper. I am trying to get a grasp on how to handle this for next year, and if we do begin dehorning before selling at what age to try and do them. Any further insight into either dehorning or using a paste would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
Snyder Farms


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

First of all there is a big difference between disbudding (done as young kids) and dehorning, which a vet needs to perform, such as your 4H kid.... Disbudding by the paste needs to be done within the first week, within a couple days preferably... Disbudding with an iron needs to be done within 2 weeks....


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## Kathrin (Feb 26, 2016)

Hi Snyder Farms.....I use Dr. Larson's Paste to disbud and I like it. Doing a good job is helped by asking a lot of folks for info on exactly what they do. doing it by day 3 is a big importance most folks state unless you've got a runt whose horn buds you can't even feel under the skin when you run your finger tips over their head. I used an iron for years and did a great job with it but like the paste better although it takes a bit longer. There is good info on here....ignore the folks passing around the old horror stories about how cruel it is. The iron is cruel too. With paste, and any other method, you do have to pay attention to safety. You want to avoid the paste getting anywhere you don't want it. We trim the hair, apply the appropriate size circle and thickness of paste and then hold the kid for the 25-30 minutes needed. We're careful to hold their ears out of the way because they will often shake their head and if their ears get paste on them and they shake again the paste can get into their eyes. We wash off with warm water, white vinegar/water mix (to neutralize the caustic paste residue), and then warm water again to get vinegar smell off of them. The most important thing for success is how thick a layer of paste and how big a circle of it since you will have scurs if you don't have paste covering all the places where immature horn bud cells are in that horn bud area. -Kathrin www.sovereignhillfarm.com


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It all depends on how you want to dis bud kids. For a few goats, I'm sure paste might work. I have over 100 kids and for me, the hot iron is way faster, safer and more efficient. I am a one person crew and I'd love to hold each kid for half hour! Unfortunately, that won't happen! For me, box the kid, clip, burn, tattoo and out. 10 min per kid. ( that includes the calming, carrying etc)


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## snowhorse07 (Jul 3, 2016)

Thank you all so much for your input! I really appreciate it. We only have 10 does, so either way will work. we had never done it before because wasn't necessary, so we weren't too clear. I will look into each a little more and discuss it with our vet too. Thanks again!!
Snyder farms


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## Lucy's Goats (Apr 5, 2019)

We just tried Dr. Naylors on our 3 day old Saanen buckling. He went totally lathargic after about 20 minutes of waiting. We waited the full 30 minutes, removed the tape, cleaned and neutralized the stuff. He remained almost limp but still held his head up. He has now been resting nearly 2 hours and hasn't stood up. He just lays there. Naturally, its a holiday and I can't get a hold of anybody. Any recommendations please!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get a temp on him.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, get a temp on him. Was he bouncing around prior? I never used tape (not saying that’s what went wrong) I just held them until it was time to rinse off... I never had anything like that happen...


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## Lucy's Goats (Apr 5, 2019)

Hi. Thanks for the responses. Yes, he was a bouncing white bundle of joy prior to this. Then, near the end, he appeared to go into shock. We treated him for that and he slowly came around. Today, he's his natural happy running around little buckling. I was trying to find out if this has happened with others who have used this method.

We are due for another kid next month and want to try the paste method again but, this first experience with paste makes us a bit nervous.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

It's very painful. Did you use banamine? I always give banamine to my kids a good half hour prior to using disbudding paste.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Its so much easier to just burn the buds. Acid eating slowly into ones head sounds so painful and slow. Burning is 13-15 seconds and done. But, that is only my opinion.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Lucy's Goats said:


> Hi. Thanks for the responses. Yes, he was a bouncing white bundle of joy prior to this. Then, near the end, he appeared to go into shock. We treated him for that and he slowly came around. Today, he's his natural happy running around little buckling. I was trying to find out if this has happened with others who have used this method.
> 
> We are due for another kid next month and want to try the paste method again but, this first experience with paste makes us a bit nervous.


Glad the kid is doing well! I have had something like that happen once before. Not quite that bad, only lasted about 30 minutes after I removed the paste. Other than that I have not had any issue.

IMO, paste hurts less than the iron. No way of ever being sure of that though. I have used the paste on myself. 5 times. I plan to do it 2 more times as well. I have been planning to post a thread on paste since I started using it 3 years ago(after my iron broke). It has its pros and cons. I was waiting until after this kidding season though. As was said though. Banamine before would be a good idea.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm cautious of using lidocaine. I've heard it can cause toxic reactions in goat kids. But maybe that's only if injected? Do you wipe the lidocaine off before applying paste, or do you just put the paste on top of the lidocaine?


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Damfino said:


> I'm cautious of using lidocaine. I've heard it can cause toxic reactions in goat kids. But maybe that's only if injected? Do you wipe the lidocaine off before applying paste, or do you just put the paste on top of the lidocaine?


I wipe it off. 30-60 minutes on. Wipe woth a wet cloth. Apply paste. Use vinegar after I am done, then apply again and leave it.

It may be only injected, but also, it may be there just isn't enough to cause a reaction. It is only 4% that is diluted with everything else in the cream. I also only use a small little bit(the side of a pea, rubbeed around). Never had any negative reactions to it at all and it does seem to help them be less painful. Never heard about lidocaine being toxic to be honest! My vet had used it before so I never would have thought.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I did find this. It doesn't seem topical had any effect(negative or positive) So, maybe no lidocaine from now on. Maybe a coincidence the ones I used it on just weren't as loud. 
https://academic.oup.com/jas/article-abstract/97/Supplement_3/3/5665383?redirectedFrom=fulltext


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Damfino said:


> I'm cautious of using lidocaine. I've heard it can cause toxic reactions in goat kids. But maybe that's only if injected


 I have heard this as well. I'm pretty sure in the instance I read about, it was applied topically, although I could certainly be wrong. Makes me nervous enough to never want to chance it!


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