# Pooch test pros needed



## Smithc43 (Mar 13, 2019)

Hi, I am hoping for some pooch test experts to take a look at 2 of my ND does and offer their opinion. We have only had them for 2 weeks and have limited information regarding their exposure to bucks. We know one was exposed to a buck pretty routinely up until the last week of January. The other doe, we know nothing about other than she has never kidded before. Below are the pics for each with the background I have.

Also, want to add that my vet is supposed to be coming out to ultrasound. However, he broke his femur (ouch), and the office is struggling to get the back up vet scheduled. So...hoping you guys can help me out int he mean time, as I am worried these does may kid before I can even get the vet out to confirm pregnancies.

Doe 1: 1.5 year old. Never kidded. Unknown exposure to a buck. Doesn't seem to be developing an udder, but looks like she has a bowling ball stuffed in her right side. Her mother is Doe 2 (below) who is apparently a pro at hiding pregnancies. Ligaments still present.
























Doe 2: Approx. 9 year old. Has kidded. No udder development, but is known for hiding pregnancies very well. Was housed with a buck until the last week of January, per previous owner. Ligaments still present.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

First one looks pregnant. Second one doesn't. But pooch test is no guarantee we are right. Ultrasound or blood test will give you better results.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I think both are pregnant but not going to deliver tomorrow on you. Are you sure you don't feel a small handful of udder development under all the fluffy fur on the younger?


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## Smithc43 (Mar 13, 2019)

Hi and thank you guys for the inputs. My vet has cancelled on me 3 times to come out and ultrasound....:waiting:

I've been watching the girls closely and I'm pretty convinced they are pregnant. Below is a pic from doe 1 (Blossom) from today. The past few days her vulva has been slightly open, and to me seems puffier. She does seem to be getting a bag, although just a little handful so far. Her ligaments have always felt loose compared to the others so at a loss there. Wondering.... is the slight openess normal? Is this a sign we're close to babies?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes she is pregnant. Impossible to say if she is close though. I would guess at least 4 more weeks based on her udder but that is really just a guess. 

I am not criticising and just trying to help so please don't be offended but the goats looks somewhat mineral deficient - do you offer them loose minerals? Any other mineral supplements?


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## Smithc43 (Mar 13, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Yes she is pregnant. Impossible to say if she is close though. I would guess at least 4 more weeks based on her udder but that is really just a guess.
> 
> I am not criticising and just trying to help so please don't be offended but the goats looks somewhat mineral deficient - do you offer them loose minerals? Any other mineral supplements?


Oh trust me, I know they are. We have only had them 3 weeks so been trying to catch them up nutritionally. Prior owner kept them with sheep so highly doubt they've been getting the copper they need. Which is also why I'm so concerned with pregnancies. They have manna pro free choice as well as a Redmond selenium block. Don't know the block is necessary but the husband picked it up trying to be helpful. I also copped bolused about 2 weeks ago. FAMACHA was pretty bad so they've had 2 rounds of ivermectin injectable given orally 10 days apart. Hopefully getting fecal results back tomorrow to ensure worm load is down. Any other supplement boosts you would suggest at this point? I have selenium gel and nutria drench but haven't given yet. Trying to find some Diamond V and kelp meal but not finding much locally. Any suggestions on helping them out before giving birth would be great. I'm a bit worried, as the prior owner said she had some stillborns recently in her herd.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How many grams of copper did you give them?

I would go ahead and give them the Selenium/Vit E oral gel and repeat in 2 weeks based on what you know. You are extremely unlikely to overdose them with that. Have they been hitting your loose minerals hard since you've owned them? 

I would not use the Nutradrench.


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## Smithc43 (Mar 13, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> How many grams of copper did you give them?
> 
> I would go ahead and give them the Selenium/Vit E oral gel and repeat in 2 weeks based on what you know. You are extremely unlikely to overdose them with that. Have they been hitting your loose minerals hard since you've owned them?
> 
> I would not use the Nutradrench.


I used the 1g per 22lb dosage for the bolus. How long does it take to start seeing results? They have started to ease up on the minerals but were absolutely hitting hard until very recently. I'll plan on giving selenium gel tomorrow. Diet wise I've been giving half cup quality grain and 1 cup alfalfa pellets twice daily. They also have free choice grass hay. Prior owner had them on hay and pasture-no alfalfa.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

You're doing a great job! Gotta wait for a whole new hair coat to grow in to see the copper results so it will be a couple months and probably you won't see the really good results until after a few doses.


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## Smithc43 (Mar 13, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> You're doing a great job! Gotta wait for a whole new hair coat to grow in to see the copper results so it will be a couple months and probably you won't see the really good results until after a few doses.


Thanks! How often do you suggest doing a bolus? I'm not in an extremely deficient area, based on the maps. The copper deficiency/toxicity stuff seems like it can be a fine line of just right and too much so trying to tread carefully.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If they don't have silky soft coats darker in color in 3 months then repeat. You'll have to do it more frequently to get them over the deficiency then likely only twice per year after depending on what you observe.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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