# How are you guys handling the Coronavirus chaos?



## HoosierShadow

I admit, I never thought it would get this bad, but whew. We haven't stocked up, and maybe that is a bad thing, and now especially since people are going crazy and cleaning out the stores. I usually do my grocery shopping on Friday evenings, but I am hoping to get to the store early tomorrow morning. 
The whole toilet paper thing is just crazy. I was at a Walmart store last night after going to Lowe's and there was no toilet paper - but lots of paper towels? There were 2 kinds of hand soap left. I don't normally shop at Walmart, so I'm hoping our local stores will have the stuff I need.

The Governor has recommended all schools close for at least 2 weeks. Many are just starting spring break in our area or will have spring break in another week or two, so many schools are calling off for the next 3 weeks. 
My daughters school is one of them. After tomorrow, they won't return to school until April 6th - that last week was her already scheduled spring break. The kids will have Non Traditional Instructional days (NTI) and do work each day at home. 
She is really sad because they had an Agriculture class field trip they were supposed to take today, and a school dance tomorrow. Of course it's all canceled.

Now I'm praying my spring job is not going to be at risk. I do photography for a media outlet at our local horseracing track. The track announced today it would be closed to spectators/fans/bettors from opening day (Apr 2nd through the 15th) well the last day of the meet is the 24th. There are several big races the first 2 weekends.
The man who runs the website I work for said 'yes' to credentialed media being allowed to attend, so fingers crossed. The $$ I earn for spring races helps with goat stuff/show season since I am not otherwise employed.
Of course now they are talking about possibly postponing the Kentucky Derby, and that ends my spring season at the races. Geez  

I hope nobody here gets sick, hopefully all of us and our families and friends stay safe. Hopefully we can all get back on track with our lives soon, and put this crazy madness and scary sickness behind us.


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## Damfino

Yikes! So far no one around us seems to be panicking. But then, I live in a small town and I think most of the folks around me think this is a lot of hoopla over nothing. With such a small number of people even being tested, I wouldn't be surprised if half the country already got hit with it a month ago and passed it off as any other cold or flu. I'm not sure I understand all this closing of schools--kids are apparently least at risk of getting it, and those who do seem to recover quickly with very mild symptoms. I think all this panicking is a far bigger risk than the virus itself. Now everyone who gets a sniffle is going to want to run to the nearest hospital and demand a coronavirus test. People clogging up hospitals and medical resources over non-emergencies is far more dangerous than the sickness itself. I wish the stupid media would shut up and quit creating a panic just to generate clickbait.


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## goathiker

My daughter got the last 4 pk of toilet paper at our Walmart yesterday. It was hidden high and in the back so she put my grandson on the shelf to get it. She was supposed to get hand sanitizer also but nope. Not for coronavirus, we use it during kidding and going pen to pen when we have new kids. 
I have a stash of old fashioned benzadine towelettes that will have to do. 
I learned long ago to keep groceries a month ahead so, really it's just business as usual here. 
I can't go see my 87 year old mother though as I had planned. Since brat child can bring it from school and I could take it to her all before showing any symptoms, it's just not worth the risk. 
The larger town about 15 miles away has 19 confirmed cases in the veteran's home.


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## Goats Rock

I didn't see this thread, started one in management. Feel free to move or delete mine.


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## Goats Rock

I went to Walmart (I don't like that store, but it was open, the grocery store closed early, people were being ingnorant!) the shelves were empty, every canned food and box of food, rice etc. gone. Meat section empty! Not a pint of milk left. Absolutely incredible. There are, so far, only 5 confirmed cases in Ohio, but the schools are closed for 3 weeks.


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## groovyoldlady

Goats Rock said:


> I went to Walmart (I don't like that store, but it was open, the grocery store closed early, people were being ingnorant!) the shelves were empty, every canned food and box of food, rice etc. gone. Meat section empty! Not a pint of milk left. Absolutely incredible. There are, so far, only 5 confirmed cases in Ohio, but the schools are closed for 3 weeks.


 Holy Moly! Are you serious? Here in central Maine, the TP and the hand sanitizer are gone. So are the antibacterial wipes I like to use for milking, so we'll make our own with tea tree oil and lavender. But the food sections are all normal at the stores. So Far!


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## GoofyGoat

You can use baby wipes to wash hands and teats with and make your own sanitizer.
It's not too crazy here yet but I haven't been shopping lately. I buy a month or so ahead.
Here's a recipe for hand sanitizer. Use the 90+% alcohol in the pharmacy section


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## Sfgwife

I had go to walmart yesterday for a few things that i cannot get at the grocery. No tp or paper towels, cleaning products or hand stuff here either. Ugh what a mess! Checkout lady said they are limiting tp, pt hand sanitizer for buying. ! People wearin face masks.... on their chins what is that?!?! We have enough food to last us a long while with the meat we process, eggs and milk daily, canned goods from last year, i make bread regularly anyway and the things that are in the freezers and house. I did laugh at the flour and sugar isle... very very low. And i am like people bread is not just a thing you wake up and do well lol! My mama insists on goin to town which i prefer her not to. She catches every bug there is lately. The governor has mandated anything over a hundred people gathering be canceled... yea that has worked for some things other not so much. A ton of people here are outraged over march madness basketball being canceled. It is kinda comical but we do not watch sports much. Colleges are doing online classes. It is all jist nuts. :/


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## Hillsideboers

Everything is crazy here no tp in any of the stores I was able to get some from the dollar store but when I went back an hour later they were sold out and said it would be till Wednesday before they would get more! 
I’m extremely worried about it, not about getting sick but about my job. I’m a dental assistant and with this panic people have bought so many mask that we’re in shortage. We change mask for every patient we see and we have enough to last us 3 weeks but I’m not sure what will happen after that. And now they are limiting how many gloves we can buy. It’s getting ridiculous! I’m can’t offered to not work for weeks so I’m hoping the fear and panic subside soon!


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## billiejw89

All sports, and extra school activities have been canceled here in central washington. School closures may be in our future. 
there have been no known cases in our county. I know many schools on the west side have been closed.


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## Oliveoil

I think people are going crazy about this. I live in rural Wisconsin and there are only 6 confirmed cases in the state. All the sports being canceled are ridiculous. The WIAA first restricted spectators then canceled the state tournament--when all the teams had already played sectional semi-finals and were there. I run track and we have a few indoor meets we are going to-which I'm sure will be canceled. If the season is canceled I will be pissed. I feel so bad for the athletes whose games and seasons have already been canceled. I don't really think our school will cancel unless the state mandates it. I don't think the world needs to stop because of it. Old people and people around them need to be careful, but life doesn't need to stop.


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## Damfino

Hillsideboers said:


> I'm extremely worried about it, not about getting sick but about my job. I'm a dental assistant and with this panic people have bought so many mask that we're in shortage. We change mask for every patient we see and we have enough to last us 3 weeks but I'm not sure what will happen after that. And now they are limiting how many gloves we can buy. It's getting ridiculous! I'm can't offered to not work for weeks so I'm hoping the fear and panic subside soon!


^ This sort of thing is what I feel bad about. Those of you in the medical industry are most affected when people rush out and buy up every face mask and pack of sterile gloves.

From what you guys are saying, it sounds like the entire country is going crazy except where I live! I think we have about 50 confirmed cases in Colorado since they started testing last week but no one in my area seems to be concerned about it. In fact, I'm wondering if what my husband and I came down with in mid-February was coronavirus. It was like the flu but without the nausea (fever, achiness, shortness of breath, bad chills, exhaustion, coughing). I got over it pretty quick but Phil had a bad lingering cough for a couple of weeks afterwards. It was weird because a cough always comes after a sore throat but neither of us had a sore throat so it wasn't a typical cold at all. Everyone at church was talking about the "terrible bug" that was going around in late Jan./Feb. so it makes me wonder if it already came through our area and we just didn't know. I have a feeling there are way more people out there who already have or already kicked this virus than we'll ever know about.

In the meantime, it hasn't hindered our travel plans. Phil flew to a small business retreat in Texas last weekend and now we're driving to Arizona to visit relatives. The hotels and restaurants are bustling and according to Phil the planes were full and the airports were busy. Yet folks are buying out toilet paper and canned goods like this is the apocalypse... I don't understand people.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

This whole thing is a publicity stunt, in my opinion. Just seriously unnecessary. I have spoken to a dozen of my Dr friends and NONE of them are panicking. Only one of them said to take MINOR extra precautions. It is basically the flu. Yes, certain people are at risk, AS WITH ANYTHING......but the basic population is not at risk....this is not the black plague, for goodness sakes.

Edited to say: Yes, all our Walmart's and most other big box stores, Lowe's, Home Depot and even the Dollar Stores are out of TP and Sanitizer. I had a lady at the Dollar Store yesterday tell me I better go get the last package of toilet paper. She had 2 36 packs in her basket. I said, "I'm not out of toliet paper. I am her for canned dog food to give dewormer to rescue puppies AND I am not easily panicked. This is HOW the media creates shortages." She stared at me as if I had 4 heads. Seriously folks.....


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## mariella

The reason schools are closing is because it can take anywhere from 14-45 days to show symptoms and the entire time you are contagious. Here in my small town, all schools are closed because of a teacher that came back from overseas over a month ago and he started showing symptoms a few days ago so they tested him and he has it. There are a lot of confirmed cases near me right now and over half of them never left the US. In Italy, the death rate is 30% or more right now and they just closed their borders. 

This is worse then they are telling you! It's a superbug! 
There are treatments you can take if you get it but most of them are sold out or close to it. One of the best ways to prevent and treat it is to take high levels of Vitamin C, L Leucine is a known virus killer so taking it will help treat as well.


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## Jessica84

Absolutely nuts here! I have not gone shopping for supplies since the end of November so yeah we needed a lot of things lol the hand sanitizers, Lysol, and alcohol was all gone. I picked up the last case of baby wipes. I always keep them on hand for cleaning hands or.....cough cough......when I haven’t been to the store in awhile and run out of TP lol paper towels and water bottles were gone and this poor Walmart guy came out with a pallet of TP. Me and 3 other people walked up to get some from him and then there was a mad rush of people pushing in front of me to get some. Well I ended up with my bundle of TP but I had to push back. 
What I don’t get is well 1. They were so worried about this but rub up on other people to push them out of the way for TP, and 2. All the important things were still fully stocked lol there was plenty of food and canned food, soap, laundry soap and female products. And we have only had 1 case here! And they were very responsible and knew they didn’t feel well so stayed in their house and didn’t have anyone come over after their trip. 
I saw last night that someone was turning someone in because they were sitting on a corner with a pickup and trailer full of cases of water they were selling for $15 a case. And in the picture there was a bunch of people buying it. IMO pretty stupid considering we are all on well water. 
But my sons academic pentathlon is canceled, he is absolutely crushed about that. And my daughter watches the news and sees how schools in other states are shut down and she’s upset it’s not her school lol 
But for the most part all is well this way. I have my 16 rolls of TP now and will be rationing it out to the children so I don’t have to deal with that mess again any time soon lol


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## Sfgwife

Hillsideboers said:


> Everything is crazy here no tp in any of the stores I was able to get some from the dollar store but when I went back an hour later they were sold out and said it would be till Wednesday before they would get more!
> I'm extremely worried about it, not about getting sick but about my job. I'm a dental assistant and with this panic people have bought so many mask that we're in shortage. We change mask for every patient we see and we have enough to last us 3 weeks but I'm not sure what will happen after that. And now they are limiting how many gloves we can buy. It's getting ridiculous! I'm can't offered to not work for weeks so I'm hoping the fear and panic subside soon!


I worry over our dil.... she is five months pregnant and a rn in an er. Ugh! I want to wrap her in a bubble! Our oldest her husband is a police officer so i too fret over him and his job.

A lot of businesses that are closing here are actually paying their employees while they are mandatory closed.


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## FoxRidge

I work in our local Emergency Room and everyone and their uncle is freaking out about it, the patients, not us. We are treating it like any other virus. Use common sense. Remember younger healthier people are not so much at risk but those people are vectors for the virus and a great way to bring it home to Grand parents or sickly relatives. Do not buy out the toilet paper but do plan smart with your food rations to avoid unnecessary trips to town. No need to freak out, just use common sense. It sounds like our area is hoping to set up drive up testing like some other countries have. If you think you have it do NOT go to the Hospital unless you are immuno suppressed or elderly and cover up your nose and mouth if you have to go in. Protect others as well as yourself. If you have it and you are a normal healthy person, tough it out at home. I say this KNOWING full well in a week or 2 the ER is going to get slammed by every sniffle or cough that hits the street expecting to get an instant hospitalization or cure. That's not how it works. The general public will clog up the ER so it makes it difficult for really sick people to get in. Please use common sense, do not panic and DO NOT CLOG THE LOCAL ER!! Lol seriously though. Most of us will be fine, its not something we need to bring to the hospital and spread around generously to actually sick people.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> I'm not sure I understand all this closing of schools--kids are apparently least at risk of getting it, and those who do seem to recover quickly with very mild symptoms.


I get it. Some kids live with their grand parents, who may actually die from the virus. My kids are hoping their schools shut down:lolgoat::lolgoat:
IMO people are going crazy over this! It isn't a big deal unless you have a weak immune system or are very young or old... OH NO THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE SKY IS FALLING!! said chicken little. Nope! Just an acorn falling from a tree! Now, if the acorn (corona virus) was maybe a boulder (Black Plague for instance), yes you can be worried, but this is pretty much the flu and pneumonia on steroids(rofl)


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## healthyishappy

Goats Rock said:


> I went to Walmart (I don't like that store, but it was open, the grocery store closed early, people were being ingnorant!) the shelves were empty, every canned food and box of food, rice etc. gone. Meat section empty! Not a pint of milk left. Absolutely incredible. There are, so far, only 5 confirmed cases in Ohio, but the schools are closed for 3 weeks.


Holy cow! Here there's no toilet paper but plenty of food still.


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## healthyishappy

Well it looks like we have some smart people here!
The Covid 19 is just a modified version of the Corona virus- which we all have. It's just a stronger version of the flu.
Your more likely to die from a hippo attack.
Also, a lot of the people who are dying happen to be half dead already ( medical problems) And have compromised immune systems. Also an interesting fact is that a lot of the people getting sick are by 5G as well. There are so many different viruses that have gone around that were WAY worse than this. (for example, the spanish flu).
I'm mostly worried that the government will declare a state of martial law.

Stress and fear will kill you faster than the virus itself since they compromise your immune system.



The news keeps showing all the bad about the virus. The press is all controlled. Find dependable sources that are not controlled by the "Big boys".


There's no doubt in my mind that this virus was made and let out on purpose.

Funny story. One of my neighbors friends took all his kids in to the doctor and they all tested positive for the corona virus. His friend totally FREAKED out.
Thing is... the doctors didn't tell him that everyone has the corona virus. They had corona virus, but not the Covid19 strand.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

We are really creating our own global issue... everyone’s panic and binge purchasing is causing things to go off the shelves. If everybody took a chill pill then we’d all be purchasing things at the normal ratios and everything would be fine. People are actually causing more issues by trying to prevent issues. Everybody had got to just relax. We’ve lived amongst viruses for our entire lives.

Also, why toilet paper?! Who started that?! If the end of the world comes I’m not gonna be worried about wiping I’m gonna be worried about eating!


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## toth boer goats

I don't know why there is panic on TP. Maybe they think they will get diarrhea? Or have to blow their horn?
It is crazy out there and scary to think the panic going on, we have been through so many new flu names, throughout the years and this time isn't any different. 

We are taking precautions and have the wipes with us, if we have to go to the store or other places.

We wash are hands frequently and try to stay away from large crowd events.

Just be cautious.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah here in Oregon same type of thing. What is interesting is Costco was out of TP, paper towels, kleenex, rice, dry beans. But.....paper towels? Really?? So weird. I went to Restaurant Depot and they had TP and dry beans and dry rice etc. So picked up a bit extra there.

I am like alot of you that I buy ahead of time anyway so we almost always have extra. We can food too which I think anyone who can do that should do that just to have extra.

Anyway.....Damfino I think was talking about Colorado. My daughter is going to school there. And BOY ARE THE HOSPITALS full!! I can only speak about the one she is doing clinicals at. But give this another week and I bet all the hospitals will be at capacity. They are quarantining alot of rooms..... 

It IS crazy.....totally agree! My daughters graduation next month may be cancelled too. Waiting to hear on that. Who would have thought a few months ago that this would be happening? lol.

On a side note it is March 13 and snowing like crazy at my house!! ugh! And we had like almost 60 degrees last week. Very strange!


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## Goats Rock

See how easy it is to bring down the entire global economy with a virus! Wow! 
Like all the postings stated, be cautious and use common sense. 
Oh! Wash your steering wheel! That, your cell phone and computer keyboard (and outside door knob) are the most germ ridden places!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yes goatsrock I totally agree! It was so funny, I was standing in Fred Meyer yesterday a grocery store chain here in Oregon. I just wanted to see if they had hand sanitizer. Of course they didn't have it. I then stated ummmm you know that really hand sanitizer is mostly alcohol....and on the next aisle are bottles of it. (LOL......)

Just thought that was rather funny. lol


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## bisonviewfarm

People are nuts. I didn't think the toilet paper buying craze would hit our small rural town. I seriously thought everyone was joking on FB till I went to do my monthly grocery shopping. No tp or hand sanitizer at Walmart, City Market, Walgreen or Dollar tree. Paper towels, soap, baby wipes and rubbing alcohol are also running out or completely gone. The state canceled all extracurricular activities. A convient store is shut down while they test an employee and 2 presumptive posatives in a town 45 minutes away that many locals work in so I suspect the panic will get worse


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## Goats Rock

Ok, here's a good one. Sorry, it's long!

Guy up the road made a bad choice and ended up in prison. 4 th DUI - 1st was 2 beers in the summer, buddy called with car problems, he went to get him, pulled over, DUI. 2nd wasn't drinking, swerved for a pot hole, refused the test, instant DUI, 3rd, - wife's daughter on Adderal, he picked up presc. at Walmart. caught up in a random vehicle search and cop saw the unopened bag. Because he had 2 prev. DUI'S, can't have controlled substances! So ovi with drug spec. Lost license. Year later, paid all reinstatement fees. Thought license good, drove, pulled over. Instant Felony DUI, bad lawyer, 2 yrs. prison! Moral of the story, don't plead NO CONTEST to a DUI or OVI!!!!!!!

All that to show he isn't a bad guy, just bad luck. He is currently on house arrest, has to get a job or back to prison,for breaking parole, mandatory 1 year additional. 

The job has to be in a 15 mile range, min, $10 an hour, only apply between 1-4 pm, has to have it by Monday. We are a small farming community, only jobs are fast food and motels by the interstate! Uh, corona virus hit, no jobs, no work, what in the world can he do? Can't work for family. He is married and had kids. Parole guy gave him an additional week! So, one good thing out of this whole virus mess!


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey..yes it is a virus. Yes it is like the flu...unless you have a low immune system, respiratory problems, blood pressure issues or Diabetes. Age doesnt mattter . The above is usually more prevelent in older people. 
Paper masks are no prevention to the virus. It takes a double filter ,like a painters mask. Hand sanitizers are usually rubbing alcohol & aloe vera gel..with an astringent added. 
Schools are incubators for disease, it can mutate and become worse. Restricting people in large numbers will prevent the tragedy going on in Italy. 
Yes common sense, wash hands. Cover your face when you cough or sneeze..does help. The problem is 85% dont have this ability. 
It can be just another flu...or it can become a pandemic
Be cautious. Use Vitamin C, eat well..and stay out of large crowds. Your chances of staying in better health will increase.


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## Moers kiko boars

On the funny side...why toilet paper? I have no idea, unless you plan on wrapping your face , like a hoodedmask! Wrapping your hands like gloves? I dont get that. Is kleenex gone too? Kleenex makes more sense than toilet paper...But stores allowing buyers to hoard is unacceptable also.


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## billiejw89

Looks like our govenor just closed all schools statewide!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238566423896580096


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## goathiker

They just closed ours for 2 weeks statewide, starting today.


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## BethJ

It has been a weird week for sure! I work at a university and they've extended spring break for students and are doing classes online when break is over. As a vet tech, we have to come to work but they've sent home anyone who's able to work from home. There is discussion about us staggering work schedules, etc to reduce contact with other people. It's all very strange and changing day by day. Campus is quiet which is actually very nice! Silver lining for me lol I'm just washing my hands a lot and going on as usual.. :shrug:


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## healthyishappy

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> We are really creating our own global issue... everyone's panic and binge purchasing is causing things to go off the shelves. If everybody took a chill pill then we'd all be purchasing things at the normal ratios and everything would be fine. People are actually causing more issues by trying to prevent issues. Everybody had got to just relax. We've lived amongst viruses for our entire lives.
> 
> Also, why toilet paper?! Who started that?! If the end of the world comes I'm not gonna be worried about wiping I'm gonna be worried about eating!


I was wondering the exact same thing!


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## toth boer goats

Wow, what is this world coming too. (headsmash)mg:


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## healthyishappy

LOL. It's kind of ironic. I'm more worried about the economy going down (it's going to come sometime) Or Martial law happening.


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## healthyishappy

toth boer goats said:


> Wow, what is this world coming too. (headsmash)mg:


Nobody has any common sense anymore. It's really sad.


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## bisonviewfarm

Anyone else notice people going crazy buying gas? I was talking to a lady II know that works at a convenient store they're selling 1000 gallons an hour in a pretty small town. I had to go to walmart and dollar tree today as well every check stand open and huge lines full of people with shopping carts full of food. The dollar store was trying tp put out to but people were were grabbing the boxes of single rolls.


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## toth boer goats

Not aware of gas, but I guess it is possible. 

It's like, where are they going to? Mars to get away from a beer called(Corona) Virus. :haha:


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## healthyishappy

toth boer goats said:


> Not aware of gas, but I guess it is possible.
> 
> It's like, where are they going to? Mars to get away from a beer called(Corona) Virus. :haha:


LOL! RIGHT! 
Have you heard Corona beer sales are down 32%??? 
Some people......


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## bisonviewfarm

toth boer goats said:


> Not aware of gas, but I guess it is possible.
> 
> It's like, where are they going to? Mars to get away from a beer called(Corona) Virus. :haha:


 I swear corona sales are up here I work in a liquor store and I went through a ton Friday & Saturday. Apparently that's something our town doesn't believe lol


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## Goats Rock

Our gasoline prices are down to 1.80 a gal! Barrel prices on the open market are $32.00 down from $53.00 a couple weeks ago. Good time to fill the 5 gal. cans and put Stabil in them!


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## Oliveoil

Our governor just canceled school until April 3rd. People are ridiculous! It should be up to the school boards to decide whether to cancel or not.


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## Moers kiko boars

I work in the Medical Field. Many people want to know how we can stay open???¿¿¿¿:bonk: Shouldnt we use more precautions????¿¿:hide: I Really want to say
..Well go home & drink 6 Coronas and call me in the morning. Thats how we are dealing and staying open. As long as they dont run out of limes..we're good!:heehee:
BUt being a professional wont allow it. Honestly, our poor, homeless, will be hit the hardest. If the homeless have other diseases, it may cause the virus to change and become worse. The CDC and all agencies are actually attempting to head off a worde case scenario. Schools are incubators for all types of illness. So they are trying to stop the virus from going full force without any precautions. 
As far as people buying frenzy?? Its sad to be so greedy & self centered, you hoard. It prevents others from having necessary items. I guess society has turned Narcissist. All about me.


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## CaramelKittey

Just want to put this fact in people's minds. According to WebMD "The CDC estimates that as *many* as 56,000 *people die from the flu* or *flu*-like illness *each year*." Less than 50 people have died from Coronavirus. Of course, stay safe and wash your hands, but there's no need to panic. :hug:


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## CaramelKittey

Moers kiko boars said:


> I work in the Medical Field. Many people want to know how we can stay open???¿¿¿¿:bonk: Shouldnt we use more precautions????¿¿:hide: I Really want to say
> ..Well go home & drink 6 Coronas and call me in the morning. Thats how we are dealing and staying open. As long as they dont run out of limes..we're good!:heehee:
> BUt being a professional wont allow it. Honestly, our poor, homeless, will be hit the hardest. If the homeless have other diseases, it may cause the virus to change and become worse. The CDC and all agencies are actually attempting to head off a worde case scenario. Schools are incubators for all types of illness. So they are trying to stop the virus from going full force without any precautions.
> As far as people buying frenzy?? Its sad to be so greedy & self centered, you hoard. It prevents others from having necessary items. I guess society has turned Narcissist. All about me.


I couldn't agree more! As my family came walking out of BJs, they saw a person with-I'm not kidding!-30 gallons of milk in his cart. What about the people who drive to the store last minute thinking milk will be there. The elderly that cared for all of us as kids, that need our help most! It's US adults who should be caring for them, but society thinks otherwise.


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## goathiker

Do keep in mind that the outbreak here has barely started. From China to Italy the virus became more deadly. As we start even later there's no way to predict what will happen. 
Italy is on country wide lock down. The rest of Europe is following quickly. 

Anyone who knows even a little bit about prepping knows to follow the lead of the mormon church. They dabble in very high political positions. They've canceled services worldwide and are instituting shelter in place for all members.


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## Damfino

mariella said:


> The reason schools are closing is because it can take anywhere from 14-45 days to show symptoms and the entire time you are contagious...


Ok, let's not panic. 14-45 days incubation period is not true. Studies are showing that the average is about 5 days incubation with the longest being 11 days and the shortest about 2 days. You also are not very contagious during that time. Coughing is what spits that virus out onto other people. If you're asymptomatic (and not coughing) you are not very contagious. If you are sick with _any_ kind of bug, stay home and please don't cough on people--just like if you have the flu or cold. Any other type of flu or cold can kill compromised people too if you hang out around them when you're sick so please don't do that.

I don't think the teacher got it from overseas. I think he got it from someone else in the U.S. because I think it's been here a lot longer than anyone realizes... we just didn't know it at the time. I have no way to prove that of course, but it's my opinion. For every person they test positive, I wouldn't be surprised if there were already 50-100 other cases that never got diagnosed and certainly never will be now.

I think the quarantined cruise ship gives us a pretty good idea of the real picture. Of the approximately 3500 people on board, only about 600 came down with coronavirus. That's less than a 20% infection rate. Only about half of those had symptoms. Of the ones that had symptoms, ~2% died (keeping in mind that people on cruises trend toward retirement age or older). Also keeping in mind that this is a quarantine situation where people are crowded together on one boat for an extended period of time. Those numbers do not sound like a good reason to panic. It's apparently more deadly to older folks than your average flu but not as contagious.

It's people panicking that are creating a "crisis," not the virus. If the media would stop all the hype and instead focus on scientifically-based PSA's about washing hands, staying home while sick, etc. it would go a lot further toward educating the public without creating situations where people cram together into stores so they can cough on each other while fighting over toilet paper. That's just insane.


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## Damfino

CaramelKittey said:


> I couldn't agree more! As my family came walking out of BJs, they saw a person with-I'm not kidding!-30 gallons of milk in his cart.


Dang... how big of a freezer does this guy have at home? If he's that worried about running out of milk he should get some goats or a cow!


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## goathiker

Unless he's like me right now and I need 12 gallons for stay in place for 2 weeks because I have too many bottle kids lol.
It would help if my other doe freshens with a fat single, not likely, and she can barely feed her yearly triplets lol. I normally pull one. So quads, a 3 week old reserved doeling (specially reserved for her f/f cassian test), a doe that can raise good twins but shorts the triple. 3 adults and 1 grandcritter, I need a lot of milk lol.


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## Trollmor

Interesting thread, thanks!  Here in Sweden the toilet paper is sold with restriction in our local store (a shop assistant had to stand there and tell people "Only one package per customer!") The hand desinfection is all gone, and the shops work hard to refill their shelves with rice, flour, sugar, and canned food.

And, being old and so on, our family has already two weeks ago seen to it that we have a good storage of food, not for fear of empty shelves, but to be able to avoid shops for some 6 or 8 weeks from now.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> I don't know why there is panic on TP. Maybe they think they will get diarrhea?


In some reports the Corona virus causes a bad diarrhea first, and only later other symptoms.


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## Trollmor

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> ... We've lived amongst viruses for our entire lives.


Yes, and some of them have killed a great number of humans.


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## fivemoremiles

I went to Costco yesterday. Now remember that i live in Montana and am not used to crowds. there were so many people there i was claustrophobic. the schools have not closed here. the only active case in Montana is not in Montana (it is in New York) they are from Montana. When my church canceled all meetings until further notice. i decided this was a much bigger deal than i thought. Since we are in the high risk category we have canceled our farm tours. We are also Isolating our self's just just to be safe. we tend to be loners so this was easy. we are waiting for the goats to kid then we will be set for supplies for three months. milk from the goats. eggs from the chickens. the wheat grinder and bread maker are used often already. and meat in the freezer. we are good.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Someone earlier was saying something about Kleenex. Like was there issues with Kleenex supply?? Ummm yes!! I found that out this week!!

I had gone to Costco last week and found out they were out of TP, Kleenex, paper towels (??) and things like dried beans and rice.

So this wk I while at a grocery chain store in Oregon, I found they had paper towels and Kleenex so I picked some up while grocery shopping. (They had TP too).

As I was checking out the clerk and bagger saw my Kleenex package and told me to HOLD ONTO THAT. I thought huh?? I think I murmured something like that and they said that some guy in the parking lot had tried to take someone's Kleenex out of their cart!!. LOL.

Yes! Things are crazy right now!


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## goathiker

And going to get crazier still. I just need dog food and I'm all good. At least people aren't fighting over that... Yet


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## Goats Rock

The people that are buying huge amounts of items are now trying to sell them at inflated prices on the Internet. They are as bad as looters in a hurricane! 
Well, keep your head down and your powder dry!


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## Kristendanae

The schools where I live are closed until after spring break. So for a whole month. I feel bad for parents who depend on their kids being at school while they work. Thankfully my new job is extremely flexible(I work with a teen that is autistic) and I can bring my kids with me. My husband on the other hand works at Walmart. He said yesterday it was worse than Black Friday. He has been working 15 hour days because he is in charge of grocery pickup and EVERYONE has been placing huge pickup orders. I have bought a few extra things but I can honestly say I haven't bought toilet paper. People had their carts packed down in target before all stores put a restriction on the amount you can purchase. There is no reason to get 300 rolls of toilet paper. People who are out can't get any because there is none stocked! So frustrating


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## Kristendanae

I'm not particularly scared of the virus. My family stays pretty healthy typically. I'm scared of the pandemonium that this is causing. Obviously it's going to spread regardless of wether schools are closed if everyone is out on the hunt for TP!


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## Jessica84

I think why it’s so insane is we have the last minute dooms day prepers, and then there are the people who see that things are flying off the shelf and just want a bit more to be on the safe side. So it all makes it 10X worse. I admit I would rather not use newspaper as TP so I got a extra bundle. 
But the kids school sent out a notice last night they are shutting down the schools until March 31 at least. In the next county over their Walmart’s have shut down. Tomorrow I’m going to hit tractor supply and hopefully I can just bunker down until all this madness is over. It’s not the virus I’m worried about it’s that everything will shut down. Ultimately we will be fine. I can turn the chickens loose if they run out of food, Send kids to the sale if I run out of hay, and I have enough critters we will be fed, but I like the small things that I could live without as well lol


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## toth boer goats

It is a mess anyway, I feel the media is at fault, they are not listening to the facts from the professionals. 
So they are causing a panic pandemic. 

Remember, common sense.


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## Trollmor

Buck Naked Boers said:


> ... some guy in the parking lot had tried to take someone's Kleenex out of their cart!!


:shrug:


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## toth boer goats

mg:


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## fivemoremiles

Goats Rock said:


> Our gasoline prices are down to 1.80 a gal! Barrel prices on the open market are $32.00 down from $53.00 a couple weeks ago. Good time to fill the 5 gal. cans and put Stabil in them!


The price drop in oil has little to do with the pandemic. it is a price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia.


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## groovyoldlady

I heard a rumor on Facebook that some people were having trouble getting grain for their goats. Anybody here having trouble? I was waiting to get some high protein grain just before the girls kid in a couple of weeks...


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## billiejw89

I went out to get some food that will last us if we need it. I didn't go crazy, just got a half a shopping cart full. We have chickens to provide us with eggs, and meat and the goats can provide us with milk. I just grabbed some items that would stretch if for whatever reason the stores close. It did cross my mind this morning, that the feed stores could be running low on stock as well. I really hope they have what I need when I go there tomorrow. Kidding season is in just a few days, so I'm wanting to get everything ready.
The cashier at our store said there was a surge of customers yesterday after the president made his announcement and then another surge when the news came through that schools were closing. She looked stressed out, and said they were being yelled at by some customers because they didn't have some items in stock. There was no toilet paper to be found at our store, but they are doing a great job of trying to keep the shelves stocked. I was able to get most of the things on my list. 
School is closed here starting on the 17th until April 24th. Our school is going to provide materials for the kids to continue their work from home, and we will have weekly phone/video conferences with their teachers. They are also planning on busing out breakfast and lunch for the ones that need it. I'm happy our school came up with a plan so quickly. I didn't want the kids to be in school all summer!


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## NDinKY

I am a medical professional (pharmacist) and based on the data from other countries I am very concerned. Right now our known infection rates are mirroring those of Italy 11 days ago. Right now there are reports of ER docs having to decide who lives and who dies at the door due to lack of resources/vents. If this is true it is very concerning. My parents are in the demographic most likely affected with serious/critical disease (heart patients, immunosuppressed, elderly). This virus could kill them. I'm not on service in the hospital this month but I'm fully expecting to be called up when resources are stretched.

There is no reason for panicking and the buying people are doing is ridiculous. However, I am very concerned that our health systems will be overwhelmed. I am concerned about supply chain disruptions. People need to take this seriously and isolate themselves. Ohio is doing a great job. My university has extended spring break and the remainder of the semester is online only. On Tuesday I thought this was overreacting; when the Ohio Dept of Health head came out with the numbers on Thursday the drastic measures make sense. With 2 areas of community spread with no links to each other or to travel related cases, it is likely 1% of the population is already infected and doesn't know it or is an asymptomatic carrier. That's over 100,000 people in Ohio alone. The confirmed cases have doubled overnight (yes the numbers are still low but we have not been testing so you can't have a confirmed case if you aren't testing).

This article is clear cut and has good information: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca


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## senoradirt

For your consideration: an article by Sharyl Attkisson detailing the profiles of the first 48 patients who have died from Covid-19.

https://justthenews.com/politics-po...inside-look-americas-first-coronavirus-deaths

Almost every death is a person in their 70's, 80's, or 90's with underlying health issues. The kind of people that may even get sick and die with regular flu. For me, a little perspective goes a long way!


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## healthyishappy

groovyoldlady said:


> I heard a rumor on Facebook that some people were having trouble getting grain for their goats. Anybody here having trouble? I was waiting to get some high protein grain just before the girls kid in a couple of weeks...


Not for me.


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## Goats Rock

Our tractor supply ran out of ....... Selenium blocks. Why? What part of the virus requires non livestock people to buy selenium blocks?
Astounding.....

I agree that the health care folks are going to be overwhelmed. Every sneeze, cough (hay allergies) and my heart pounds a little! I'm going to quit listening to Public radio! (I don't face book, so not reading all that nonsense!)


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## NDinKY

Our TSC was well stocked on Thursday. I picked up some extra alfalfa pellets, chicken food, goat grain, dog food, and cat food. Went to rural king last night and got another couple bags alfalfa pellets, protein tub, and dog food. Our first doe is set to kid in just over a week and I want to make sure we have enough alfalfa pellets for the girls. It’s all stuff we’ll use in the next month or so. I do need to stop back by and get CDT but am going to wait a few days to see how things evolve.


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## Goats Rock

Know what is a little concerning about all this hoarding nonsense? People are only thinking of themselves, by rights, the dog food should be empty, as should the cat food and litter. They are not, what are the pets going to eat? (If the person is house bound?) 

Livestock supplies were ok, not empty, but people were getting an extra bag of chicken feed or horse feed. Very interesting how people are reacting to this invisible, new threat. 

I wonder if people in the plague era were stockpiling and trying to avoid an invisible threat?


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## Trollmor

billiejw89 said:


> ... they were being yelled at by some customers because they didn't have some items in stock.


Of *course* the staff's fault ... :shrug::shrug:


----------



## Trollmor

NDinKY said:


> I am a medical professional (pharmacist) and based on the data from other countries I am very concerned. Right now our known infection rates are mirroring those of Italy 11 days ago. Right now there are reports of ER docs having to decide who lives and who dies at the door due to lack of resources/vents. If this is true it is very concerning. My parents are in the demographic most likely affected with serious/critical disease (heart patients, immunosuppressed, elderly). This virus could kill them. I'm not on service in the hospital this month but I'm fully expecting to be called up when resources are stretched.
> 
> There is no reason for panicking and the buying people are doing is ridiculous. However, I am very concerned that our health systems will be overwhelmed. I am concerned about supply chain disruptions. People need to take this seriously and isolate themselves. Ohio is doing a great job. My university has extended spring break and the remainder of the semester is online only. On Tuesday I thought this was overreacting; when the Ohio Dept of Health head came out with the numbers on Thursday the drastic measures make sense. With 2 areas of community spread with no links to each other or to travel related cases, it is likely 1% of the population is already infected and doesn't know it or is an asymptomatic carrier. That's over 100,000 people in Ohio alone. The confirmed cases have doubled overnight (yes the numbers are still low but we have not been testing so you can't have a confirmed case if you aren't testing).
> 
> This article is clear cut and has good information: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca


Well said!


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## Goats Rock

Trollmor, are you in a high alert area? Do many people have the corona virus where you live?


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## GoofyGoat

I just got back from a tractor supply near me. The asst manager was telling me there had been a run on dog food and they were down to only two bags of the grain I use. I bought both just because I needed both for the next week. It did sort of make me edgy though wondering if I should grab four more when the truck comes in just to stay ahead a week or two. I've got 3 in milk and three more to kid so I'm thinking i might incase it gets really crazy.


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## Trollmor

Goats Rock said:


> Trollmor, are you in a high alert area? Do many people have the corona virus where you live?


No, but in our family we have more than one risk group. The country of Sweden has almost 10 million people, next to 1000 confirmed cases, in spite of few test kits, and today the third person died from the infection.


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## NDinKY

GoofyGoat said:


> I just got back from a tractor supply near me. The asst manager was telling me there had been a run on dog food and they were down to only two bags of the grain I use. I bought both just because I needed both for the next week. It did sort of make me edgy though wondering if I should grab four more when the truck comes in just to stay ahead a week or two. I've got 3 in milk and three more to kid so I'm thinking i might incase it gets really crazy.


I'd probably pick up a couple more, just in case. Nothing crazy like a months worth, but enough to get through the next two weeks. The next 10-14 days will be very telling. I'm holding my kids out of daycare/ preschool even though they're still open (looking like they're going to be mandated to close but it's not official yet).

Fortunately for the goats, everything here is starting to green up.


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## toth boer goats

Oh man. (doh)


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Damfino said:


> Ok, let's not panic. 14-45 days incubation period is not true. Studies are showing that the average is about 5 days incubation with the longest being 11 days and the shortest about 2 days. You also are not very contagious during that time. Coughing is what spits that virus out onto other people. If you're asymptomatic (and not coughing) you are not very contagious. If you are sick with _any_ kind of bug, stay home and please don't cough on people--just like if you have the flu or cold. Any other type of flu or cold can kill compromised people too if you hang out around them when you're sick so please don't do that.
> 
> I don't think the teacher got it from overseas. I think he got it from someone else in the U.S. because I think it's been here a lot longer than anyone realizes... we just didn't know it at the time. I have no way to prove that of course, but it's my opinion. For every person they test positive, I wouldn't be surprised if there were already 50-100 other cases that never got diagnosed and certainly never will be now.
> 
> I think the quarantined cruise ship gives us a pretty good idea of the real picture. Of the approximately 3500 people on board, only about 600 came down with coronavirus. That's less than a 20% infection rate. Only about half of those had symptoms. Of the ones that had symptoms, ~2% died (keeping in mind that people on cruises trend toward retirement age or older). Also keeping in mind that this is a quarantine situation where people are crowded together on one boat for an extended period of time. Those numbers do not sound like a good reason to panic. It's apparently more deadly to older folks than your average flu but not as contagious.
> 
> It's people panicking that are creating a "crisis," not the virus. If the media would stop all the hype and instead focus on scientifically-based PSA's about washing hands, staying home while sick, etc. it would go a lot further toward educating the public without creating situations where people cram together into stores so they can cough on each other while fighting over toilet paper. That's just insane.


I couldn't agree more.

No matter what, people should stay home and take precautions when they are sick - whether it's a flu, a cold, I don't care ... but it saddens me that it's taken the media hype of some virus to have people actually care about the health of those around them and the spread of illness.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

groovyoldlady said:


> I heard a rumor on Facebook that some people were having trouble getting grain for their goats. Anybody here having trouble? I was waiting to get some high protein grain just before the girls kid in a couple of weeks...


Not sure. But that would be awful. We don't give grain, only hay, which is local. Other than that I did splurge buy on salt and minerals.


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## NDinKY

Unfortunately I do not think this is hype. I sincerely hope it is.


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## Jessica84

GoofyGoat said:


> I just got back from a tractor supply near me. The asst manager was telling me there had been a run on dog food and they were down to only two bags of the grain I use. I bought both just because I needed both for the next week. It did sort of make me edgy though wondering if I should grab four more when the truck comes in just to stay ahead a week or two. I've got 3 in milk and three more to kid so I'm thinking i might incase it gets really crazy.


I would too and I'm going to. It's not that I think the world is coming to a end, but with people acting so insane who knows when you will get some more if they run out. Or do you really want to go out and deal with crazy people on the road that got a tip there's TP in a store in town. So that's my tomorrow plan. Buy feed and maybe hit a liquor store and not have to deal with crazy people for as long as I can lol


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## senoradirt

Hoboken NJ has issued a curfew from 10pm-5am. Apparently the Corona virus is particularly infectious between those hours! And Ohio and Illinois have closed all restaurants and bars. What's next?

The first 62 deaths are mostly people in their 70's, 80's, and 90's with underlying issues. 
https://sharylattkisson.com/2020/03/new-the-first-59-u-s-coronavirus-deaths-by-state-and-age/

This is getting so out-of hand. I worry about the opportunistic martial law dictates - "for our own good". They're like punishment for are not being compliant and common-sensical (and we mostly are). For the record, I don't think common-sensical is a word but it should be.

I'm in CT and all I want to do is go to TExas and hang out with my goats. Baby goats relax me.


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## Goats Rock

I have goats at 2 farms, a mile apart with a river in the middle. Curfew won't work well for me, 100 does due to kid over the next few months, starting this week! 
Camo, canoe, and fortunately, no businesses., street lights or many houses on the road. 

Getting a bit worrisome! 

Person I know has a child on a feeding tube and very disabled. The worthless stockpiler jerks have bought all the Ensure and other high calorie liquids. The mom is so worried that auto delivery of her child's needed nutritional drinks won't come she is beside herself. 
The auto del. people are trying to insure delivery, but all their stock is gone. I wish people would stop stockpiling and just calm down, panic never solved anything!


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## HoosierShadow

It's very worrisome. I agree, the next 2 weeks will really give us an idea of how things are going to play out. I am glad most of you are ready, and my heart and prayers are with you all that work in the medical field or anything else that requires you must deal with a wide variety of people and situations.

I went grocery shopping Friday morning at 7:30am, and it looked more like a Friday afternoon. Everyone was in good spirits, I do love our small town and the store employees are always wonderful. We have a large Kroger grocery, then there is a Save-a-lot, Dollar General, Family Dollar and a Dollar Tree, that's it other than small town businesses and novelty shops. You have to go to Lexington or Frankfort for more shopping options. Lexington is our neighboring county, and there are 5 confirmed cases so far there, and then some in the counties north and northeast of Lexington, as well as in Louisville.
We at least have what we need for the time being. But I will admit, I'm a bit anxious to stock up a little better just because I feel if they do close the stores or something crazy, we won't be prepared. So I can understand somewhat, people buying up lots of non perishable food items, and things to hold them over for weeks (but TP? come one lol).

Yesterday I took the truck to our feed mill. I usually go during the week, and never remember to get my truck key from my son. So I end up taking my car and getting 6 bags at a time. 
6 bags lasts about 8-9 days. So I took the truck yesterday and bought 15 bags, and they had 2 opened bags (tears, nothing really missing) and they gave those to me! So we are set for at least 2-3 weeks. 

A big worry is if the kids will have a show season. One of the big wether families who are big in advertising/business with connections thinks it may affect the beginning of the season, but doesn't think it will affect most of the show season overall. Fingers crossed. On top of all the craziness, the postponements, cancelations, etc. it would be sad to not have the goat shows.

I'm hoping to hear tomorrow if I'll be able to work at our local horse track, although it may be a wait and see scenario. Meet starts in 2 1/2 weeks. 
I'm wondering if the track that puts on the Kentucky Derby will post their decision tomorrow on what they plan to do. Rumor has it, the derby will be run in June or September instead of the first Saturday in May. Definitely weird, 'historic' times we are living in.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Hey guys. Good evening from Oklahoma. Lets face it. Panic is fear without direction. We all have questions. We are concerned. But fear is fueled by lies, guesses, FB , and what ifs! Lets be honest. Yes it is a virus. We are doing ok. People are going crazy, but I choose not to join them. I will speak to everyone with calm reality. I dont know anyone with the corid 19 virus. I am concerned with the #s. I will be more cautiouse. And be more helpful to my family, & friends needs. Ill be happy to share any items I have to help them through this. You can get info off of you tube on how to make hand sanitizer. Ask your friends to help others. Like purchasing items online and get them delivered. Talking with authorities about your driving between 2 farms for your business will get you a permit. 
Please stop & think..We dont have to fear the unknown. We have to think our way into a new situation and come up with a positive direction. This is a temporary situation.


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## Damfino

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> No matter what, people should stay home and take precautions when they are sick - whether it's a flu, a cold, I don't care ... but it saddens me that it's taken the media hype of some virus to have people actually care about the health of those around them and the spread of illness.


I know, right!? It drives me mad when I hear outraged people who scream that they have cold/flu symptoms and they NEED the COVID-19 test to see whether they can still go to work and hang out in public. How about NO! Nobody wants your nasty virus no matter which one it is! Any one of them could kill an elderly or otherwise immune compromised person. So if you think you have a bug--ANY bug--call in sick and stay away from other people as much as possible. It's common sense and common courtesy!


----------



## lottsagoats1

Well, we just had our first confirmed case this past Thursday. Before that people were starting to freak, but since that first case, total mayhem, panic and hysteria has set in. Stores are empty of just about everything. I work security at a large hospital, so we have been busy. Lots of people coming in to be tested, many new cases. It's all people talk about. It's all over the news, newspapers, internet.....agh! STOP!!!!!!!!!! Calm down people! Geez.

I am over 60, have an immune disease along with asthma. So, I am triple risk, then add to that, I work in a hospital, hands on with people. I refuse to fall victim to the panic that is sweeping this world right now. I am worried for my 87 year old mother and 96 year old uncle. My Mom still lives at home, my uncle in a nursing home 3/4 of this country away. They are on lock down. The hospital I work for has 2 nursing homes, both in lockdown- no visitors. Patient families are freaking out and even getting violent about their visits being stopped. In a way I can't blame them I guess, but what better way to protect the loved ones who are already compromised?

Our governor just proclaimed civil emergency, so all schools are closed for 2 weeks minimum. No events with over 50 people, all school events, including sports stopped, state offices closed, including the court houses. Some businesses are closing or restricting the customers. Restaurants closing. It's funny, they never went this far over the edge for any other diseases in the past 60 years that I can remember, not even Ebola, which is way more fatal than Covid 19.

I'm just starting kidding season, so things will be busy for the next month and a half.


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## goathiker

senoradirt said:


> This is getting so out-of hand. I worry about the opportunistic martial law dictates


You do know that as soon as the president called a state of emergency he became the commander and chief and we are effectively living under martial law now?
Of course you would also know that the states are autonomous and nothing your governor or mayors are doing have anything to do with federal government.

American standard has always been able to stop these viruses before they ever got started very well. We would sit on our couches laughing about what a joke H1N1 was while people were dying in other countries. Well guess what, this one sneaked in. Guess what else, Obama outsourced all of our drug manufacturing to China. So yeah, might be a little difficult to keep up with supply for a while.

I'm sorry, I know we're not supposed to be political but, it frustrates me that people don't even know their rights or the duties of their leaders. How can we hold them accountable if no one knows what they are supposed to be doing?

Be safe and warm. Watch out for your loved ones. Spend your money on nutrients that you will eat anyway and if it comes down to beans and rice never add raccoon.


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## jschies

I don't have kids showing anymore, but here they closed the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo before the livestock auction. And then they cancelled our local fair. Livestock leaders are planning a "relief show" for sometime in the future so that those children can show and sell their project animals. We have had "relief shows" in the past due to hurricanes so there is some experience in holding them. Our fair was in the fall, but they changed it so that hurricanes wouldn't interfere and they get virus interference!!


----------



## Trollmor

Goats Rock said:


> The mom is so worried that auto delivery of her child's needed nutritional drinks won't come she is beside herself.
> The auto del. people are trying to insure delivery, but all their stock is gone. I wish people would stop stockpiling and just calm down, panic never solved anything!


How about the delivery people just rationing the drinks?


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## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> I know, right!? It drives me mad when I hear outraged people who scream that they have cold/flu symptoms and they NEED the COVID-19 test to see whether they can still go to work and hang out in public. How about NO! Nobody wants your nasty virus no matter which one it is! Any one of them could kill an elderly or otherwise immune compromised person. So if you think you have a bug--ANY bug--call in sick and stay away from other people as much as possible. It's common sense and common courtesy!


Well said, @Damfino!


----------



## Trollmor

lottsagoats1 said:


> not even Ebola, which is way more fatal than Covid 19.


Did Ebola ever reach out of the area it started in?


----------



## NDinKY

lottsagoats1 said:


> It's funny, they never went this far over the edge for any other diseases in the past 60 years that I can remember, not even Ebola, which is way more fatal than Covid 19.


Ebola is definitely more fatal if you get it, but the key is it is hard to get (handling a dead body or secretions/blood). This virus we're dealing with now is spreading undetected. Most people who get it will be ok and able to handle it on their own. 20% will need supportive care in the hospital. 5% will need intensive care including mechanical ventilation. We're ventilating early on. 1% will need ECMO, of which there are very few devices relative to the number who need them. Scale those numbers up to the population of the US (or whatever country you are in) needing them at the same time (like toilet paper but this actually saves lives) and you see the problem. People are dying of cardiac arrest 12 hrs after successful extubation/vent weaning, when everyone thinks the pt has turned the corner and will make it. Ejection fractions (percent of blood the heart squeezes out when it pumps) that were normal on admission (>60-65%) are dropping to <10% and we don't know why. This virus may be directly harming cardiac tissue.

Stay home whenever you can. Doing so will save lives. You may be ok but you may spread it to someone who won't be. Young adults are still affected. A few have died. It's been proposed that children are reservoirs as they seem to have been spared from this for whatever reason (immature immune systems, robust thymus, less likely cytokine storm, who knows). Keep your kids away from their grandparents for the near future if possible.

I know it sounds like everyone is overreacting but this is that time right before a tsunami when the water is going out prior to the massive wave hitting shore. If you are going about business as normal, going to clubs and bars, crowded areas, you're the person walking out into the now uncovered sand as the tsunami builds. Don't be that person. Be the person who runs for high ground, saving yourself, your family, and others. Just stay home.


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## NDinKY

Trollmor said:


> Did Ebola ever reach out of the area it started in?


It got to Texas but was quickly contained. Two nurses caught it iirc but survived. The original patient died. I knew one of the hospital personnel working in the ICU when that case came in.


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## toth boer goats

I hear everyone, we all have very ligament concerns.

We just have to take this day by and be careful in what we do.

It will all play out in time.

All will settle down and we will get back to a norm.
We all have ups and downs, this is a down. (console)
But we have the goat spot family and we are free to communicate our fears together, even though we are apart. 

:bighug:


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## Trollmor

Yes, @toth boer goats, let us use the internet to stay both safe and happy!


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## Jessica84

Well I did my shopping today. It wasn’t bad! For the most part it seemed everyone just stayed home. I hit TSC and they were out of some of the dog food, not what I use, and I had to go with a different cat food but for the most part fully stocked! 
Hit the grocery store since I was already out. Produce was stocked but nothing was on sale so I wasn’t paying those prices, end of the world or not! Pasta and milk were gone. And a lot of the meat. Things like preseasoned meats (expensive meat) were still stocked. 
The feed store was dead! But it’s also pouring rain so that might have played a part. 
My husband does construction on the side (he likes playing with tractors lol) and 2 people canceled on him this morning. On works at the casino and he got a noticed he’s being laid off. 
I talked to my friend that owns the sale yard and asked her how her sale went. It was a full house but not many goats came in. Prices were super good! Other then the buyers that I have already gotten deposits for kids I’m not really getting any bites on my kids. So I think I’m going to just start sending them down the road. I hate to do it since there’s some NICE doe kids left but I also hate to chance everything shutting down and not be able to move them by the time summer hits and feed is gone. I’ve been debating it but I think I’m just going to cut my losses and go with my gut. It isn’t helping we are going threw another drought year on top of this.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Question: does anyone here have or know of someone with the corona virus?


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## senoradirt

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Question: does anyone here have or know of someone with the corona virus?


not me


----------



## luvmyherd

Wow! I just finished reading all 99 posts. Talk about 1st world problems! No toilet paper or baby wipes!
I have not been on here for a while especially since I have no livestock now. (Sort of wishing we still had chickens at least.) I had a hip replacement in January so have been getting around a little slow.
It occurred to me that this may just be the place to get some common sense opinions to help get this into perspective. You all did not disappoint.
I, luckily, had plenty of TP when the craziness began. I also have lots of wipes as we use them a lot in the RV. I did declare the supply we have to be for butts only. NO picking up bugs or cat poop or wiping up spills.
There is this great stuff called cotton that can get very dirty and still wash clean. (What a concept huh?) Rags will be used instead of paper as much as practical and if the paper runs out; exclusively.) But that is pretty much how we live anyway.
Even though I do not have any meat *on the hoof* I have a pantry full of canned goat, rabbit and chicken. We also have quite a bit of vegetable soup. So I do not fear going hungry.
Worst case scenario (other than actually getting sick); our son lives in the mountains off grid
and are mostly self sustaining. (They are kinda having a good laugh.) But in case of a total melt down of organization we can pack our RV with as much as we can carry and head up there. They have plenty of milk, eggs and canned goods.
My daughter in WA is having a much harder time. School cancelled for her and her kids. No food in the stores. (A family of 5 with 2 teenagers go through a lot.) Her daughters are heavily into dance and their community center is of course closed. Their recital that we planned to attend in May is cancelled. But that is pretty minor compared to real problems.
We just got the call we have been expecting from my husband's mother's Memory Care Center. No more visitors. Since she never remembers our visits things won't change much for her but it is hard on us.


NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> does anyone here have or know of someone with the corona virus?


The closest is my daughter in WA knows some one who knows someone who's family member (an old sick man) died.
Our best to everyone and please remember to use good sense and we will come out on the other side of this.


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## HoosierShadow

Oh wow Luvmyherd, I hope you are recovering well from your replacement! I had no idea you had to have one and don't have animals anymore!

Jessica - I am the same way, I am not overpaying for the produce or meat lol.

My daughter and I decided to drive to the feed store about 40 minutes away, mostly to just get out of the house. I picked up some stuff similar to calf manna (1/2 the price/good stuff), and some blue lite. I figured we better slowly get goats started into shape IF there is a show season any time soon. It was a good drive.
On our way back we stopped at a Dollar General that is kind of out in the middle of nowhere and grabbed some odds ends - bleach, paper towels, body & hand soaps, toothpaste, and a couple of other things. They had no toilet paper, but otherwise had a decent stock on things. I really figured people would drive out there and hoard it all, so it was a nice surprise.

We were going to stop at Save a lot on the way home, but they looked packed. So... we went to our big grocery (Kroger). It was packed, but thankfully I got everything I needed. 
My new stove should be delivered tomorrow (fingers crossed!). I called before I shopped to make sure lol. I haven't had my oven since Christmas day (bottom heating element went out). So I wanted to buy things I could cook in the oven.
Ironically they had a decent stock of frozen turkey breasts (on sale), and still had some small, boneless hams left. I'll make turkey one day with sides, and ham another, and should be leftovers for lunch the next day. So I was happy to find that stuff. They didn't have any paper towels or toilet paper. It was crazy to see the shelves empty. 


















But hey... look at the right of that bottom pic - they had yogurt in stock! When I went on Friday, they were sold out of the individual yogurt cups. Of course I forgot to buy some lol.

Anyway, so now we are set, and I should hopefully not have to go back. I'm hoping for perishables and meat I can possibly have my husband stop at the store, or go to the Mexican grocery to get some of it.

I honestly feel like I am coming down sick, so I wanted to be prepared. My allergies have been flaring up off and on all winter, and right now my left sinuses are congested. I know shooting horse races Saturday in the driving, brutal & cold wind and rain on Saturday would probably do me in. Hopefully I can knock it out before it gets bad.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

mariella said:


> The reason schools are closing is because it can take anywhere from 14-45 days to show symptoms and the entire time you are contagious. Here in my small town, all schools are closed because of a teacher that came back from overseas over a month ago and he started showing symptoms a few days ago so they tested him and he has it. There are a lot of confirmed cases near me right now and over half of them never left the US. In Italy, the death rate is 30% or more right now and they just closed their borders.
> 
> This is worse then they are telling you! It's a superbug!
> There are treatments you can take if you get it but most of them are sold out or close to it. One of the best ways to prevent and treat it is to take high levels of Vitamin C, L Leucine is a known virus killer so taking it will help treat as well.


I'm not sure where you got that Italy's death rate is 30%. That is completely inacc


mariella said:


> The reason schools are closing is because it can take anywhere from 14-45 days to show symptoms and the entire time you are contagious. Here in my small town, all schools are closed because of a teacher that came back from overseas over a month ago and he started showing symptoms a few days ago so they tested him and he has it. There are a lot of confirmed cases near me right now and over half of them never left the US. In Italy, the death rate is 30% or more right now and they just closed their borders.
> 
> This is worse then they are telling you! It's a superbug!
> There are treatments you can take if you get it but most of them are sold out or close to it. One of the best ways to prevent and treat it is to take high levels of Vitamin C, L Leucine is a known virus killer so taking it will help treat as well.


I'm notsure where you got the info that Italy is at 30% death rate. That is completely inaccurate. They have reported 27,970 cases and reported 2150 deaths. They would have to have over 8k deaths for it to be 30%. We really have to get better at speeading facts. It is closer to 12.5%, which is more believable and reflects that compromised immune systems and other health problems play a huge factor in those deaths. They are also reporting that over 20k have recovered from this virus. Let's Calm down and stop creating more problems for ourselves.


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## Trollmor

Latest rumour I heard: An advertisment on one of the bigger web sites offered hand desinfection for 5 times the normal price! The police asked the site to delete the ad, which happened.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

The guy and his brother that horded 18k bottles of hand Sanitizer have been forced to donate them to local churches by the local Attorney General's office. Charges of price gouging and inciting a panic and shortages will follow. I can't imagine being the sort of person who would try to make a dollar from others panicking.


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## Sfgwife

Ugh! The governor of NC has banned eat in and bars beig open. Sooooo. I really need go to the grocery for a few things. Just normal stuff not hoarding stocking up. ;(. Pintos, limas and bread flour cause i make our bread and i would love a salad right now lol! My lil seed sprouters that i put in the hoop house wont get me far. Hahahahahaha. I am TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY dreading this nonsense! But. Paul and i are farm workin today so it will be when all the crazies get off work when i will be able to go... triple dang! Someone shoot me now please?


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## Trollmor

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> The guy and his brother that horded 18k bottles of hand Sanitizer have been forced to donate them to local churches by the local Attorney General's office. Charges of price gouging and inciting a panic and shortages will follow. I can't imagine being the sort of person who would try to make a dollar from others panicking.


Are you saying it has happened in America as well?


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## Ranger1

Trollmor said:


> Are you saying it has happened in America as well?


Are you saying Americans aren't the only stupid ones, going into such panic?


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## Hillsideboers

My dental office were I work just closed our doors for the next 3 weeks, restaurants, bars, casinos almost everything is now closed and can only do carry out. Schools are closed for 4 weeks as well. I’m stress the heck out! I’m hoping I can get paid or some kind of payment for the next 3 weeks otherwise my husband will have to pay for my feed, which he’ll do just not with a smile lol.


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## Goats Rock

Ohio has closed down most everything. Drive thru can be open,,for now. Groc stores are open, but haven't caught up with restocking yet. 
Guns and ammo are selling like crazy! My friend has a gun store at the mall. They are almost empty! Crazy times for sure!


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## toth boer goats

It is just crazy.


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## CaramelKittey

senoradirt said:


> Hoboken NJ has issued a curfew from 10pm-5am. Apparently the Corona virus is particularly infectious between those hours! And Ohio and Illinois have closed all restaurants and bars. What's next?
> 
> The first 62 deaths are mostly people in their 70's, 80's, and 90's with underlying issues.
> https://sharylattkisson.com/2020/03/new-the-first-59-u-s-coronavirus-deaths-by-state-and-age/
> 
> This is getting so out-of hand. I worry about the opportunistic martial law dictates - "for our own good". They're like punishment for are not being compliant and common-sensical (and we mostly are). For the record, I don't think common-sensical is a word but it should be.
> 
> I'm in CT and all I want to do is go to TExas and hang out with my goats. Baby goats relax me.


Yeah..NJ isn't the greatest right now ( or most times) but I never go out between 10PM- 5Am so it bothers me more than it affects me. Stores here are only letting in 50 people at a time. Ridiculous.


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## toth boer goats

:imok:


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## CecilandNellie

I donʻt feel panic! Alcohol and all sanitizers gone from shelves for days. Costco, Target, Walmart all out of ʻeverythingʻ we are supposed to have on hand. I will steal from my barn, Chlorhexidine and Iodine Scrub ought to disinfect door knobs and counters. I use a light Chlorox solution for udders so I have plenty of that on hand. We got 8 bags of grain yesterday and can survive if we run out of hay.
I made cheese this morning, I do not pasteurize - so I will stop cheesing if the virus turns up in my county.
We kidded last Thursday (actually she kidded while I was sleeping ) more due tomorrow. I feed the kids and milk the does, so I am fairly housebound anyway for a few weeks. I do worry, as someone else mentioned, about who would take care of the herd if I get sick.
Some of my family is in the Bay Area (CA) confined to their homes, I would have a hard time with that. I think those of us with animals are fortunate, we have to go outside and most likely have room to move around on our own property.


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## Crazy Little Goat

I'm not afraid of the virus.
I'm frightened by the speed with which all of our rights are being stripped away, and our collective blind willingness to comply. 
Our governor, at the last minute, pulled the plug on our primary election last night. 
Maybe all of this social distancing is the right move and maybe it's not; I wouldn't want to be the one who had to decide what to do. BUT, this feels extreme. We have a handful of cases ( the number is being vastly over reported I believe, unless no one ever recovers from this) and Dewine has shut down EVERYTHING except grocery stores, gas stations, and banks. 
I'm honestly worried that by this time next week it will be illegal to leave my property. And our whole country is going along with it without question. 
The only news is Covid-19. 
I keep thinking that this feels like a science fiction movie and we're all the cast. It's time for the credits to start rolling so we can get back to our regular programming.


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## Wcd

Crazy Little Goat said:


> I'm not afraid of the virus.
> I'm frightened by the speed with which all of our rights are being stripped away, and our collective blind willingness to comply.
> Our governor, at the last minute, pulled the plug on our primary election last night.
> Maybe all of this social distancing is the right move and maybe it's not; I wouldn't want to be the one who had to decide what to do. BUT, this feels extreme. We have a handful of cases ( the number is being vastly over reported I believe, unless no one ever recovers from this) and Dewine has shut down EVERYTHING except grocery stores, gas stations, and banks.
> I'm honestly worried that by this time next week it will be illegal to leave my property. And our whole country is going along with it without question.
> The only news is Covid-19.
> I keep thinking that this feels like a science fiction
> 
> movie and we're all the cast. It's time for the credits to start rolling so we can get back to our regular programming.


I was trying to remain mute on this one, but after reading your post , I have to chime in.
You are spot on! The frightening thing is exactly people's willingness to simply put the constitution aside.

There will be those that will seek to further their own political gain versus serving those that elected them.

just my two cents, but if you are dependent upon the Government for your survival, you have bigger problems than a virus.


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## bekscott

Goats Rock said:


> I went to Walmart (I don't like that store, but it was open, the grocery store closed early, people were being ingnorant!) the shelves were empty, every canned food and box of food, rice etc. gone. Meat section empty! Not a pint of milk left. Absolutely incredible. There are, so far, only 5 confirmed cases in Ohio, but the schools are closed for 3 weeks.


I, too, am in NE Ohio; Portage County.  Toilet paper is no where to be found; haven't figured that out yet and I was surprised when I went to a few stores today that there was food on the shelf and I was relieved by that. The only thing I wanted was whole milk for my bottle babies!! I don't care about our food supply-I just want to feed the babies! I am also a teacher and we did end school on Friday but will meet for a few days this week (just teachers and staff) in order to set up our online classrooms. All of this is so new that who knows what's to come? Every day things change. Best to everyone! I'm sooooo glad the grass is starting to grow so our animals can feed themselves. Livestock auctions are closing and I can't even imagine people not being able to buy hay! Or sell animals that they can't feed. I think I worry about animals more than people! The whole thing has the makings of a Stephen King novel..
_Coronavirus_
To staying healthy.


----------



## Wcd

bekscott said:


> I, too, am in NE Ohio; Portage County. Toilet paper is no where to be found; haven't figured that out yet and I was surprised when I went to a few stores today that there was food on the shelf and I was relieved by that. The only thing I wanted was whole milk for my bottle babies!! I don't care about our food supply-I just want to feed the babies! I am also a teacher and we did end school on Friday but will meet for a few days this week (just teachers and staff) in order to set up our online classrooms. All of this is so new that who knows what's to come? Every day things change. Best to everyone! I'm sooooo glad the grass is starting to grow so our animals can feed themselves. Livestock auctions are closing and I can't even imagine people not being able to buy hay! Or sell animals that they can't feed. I think I worry about animals more than people! The whole thing has the makings of a Stephen King novel..
> _Coronavirus_
> To staying healthy.


Hopefully it will not come to that in your area, I would guess if it comes down to it, people will make it work and people will be stronger.

good luck


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## luvmyherd

Today we checked and made sure the RV's tanks are all full (just in case).
We are over 65 so we are being cautious.
My poor granddaughter though; turns 21 on Thursday and can't go out for her first legal drink. 
Since most places still have fresh veggies I am thinking of picking up some and canning them.


HoosierShadow said:


> Oh wow Luvmyherd, I hope you are recovering well from your replacement! I had no idea you had to have one and don't have animals anymore!


Yes, we got rid of the goats several years back as we just travel too much. Then we butchered all the rabbits. This last winter the last of the chickens died. It is lonely when we are home; but nice to have the freedom when we want to just take off.
The arthritis in my hip got so bad a total replacement was the only choice. I am 6 weeks out and everything is coming along nicely. We went out and walked a mile today.


----------



## CaramelKittey

Crazy Little Goat said:


> I'm not afraid of the virus.
> I'm frightened by the speed with which all of our rights are being stripped away, and our collective blind willingness to comply.
> Our governor, at the last minute, pulled the plug on our primary election last night.
> Maybe all of this social distancing is the right move and maybe it's not; I wouldn't want to be the one who had to decide what to do. BUT, this feels extreme. We have a handful of cases ( the number is being vastly over reported I believe, unless no one ever recovers from this) and Dewine has shut down EVERYTHING except grocery stores, gas stations, and banks.
> I'm honestly worried that by this time next week it will be illegal to leave my property. And our whole country is going along with it without question.
> The only news is Covid-19.
> I keep thinking that this feels like a science fiction movie and we're all the cast. It's time for the credits to start rolling so we can get back to our regular programming.


Same here! In less than a week, our governor (Not a fan. Just thankful I glad I live in South Jersey.) set a curfew of 8PM-5AM and commanded all non-essential stores to close at 8Pm. I guess Coronavirus only spreads at these hours?? It's crazy! Our stores are only letting 50 people in at a time. This makes no sense, because people are more crammed together in the lines outside the store! 
This panic is crazy. I'm not worried about the virus at all. Even if I get the virus. I'll just stay away from people and recover like I have with every other disease. As always, if I'm sick with anything, I keep my distance from people. The only reason these viruses spread, is because there are too many people without common sense! 
I think we can all agree there is too much necessary panic, and we will all be fine.


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## SleepingDogRanch

I live in South Texas and am a college student. All of this is so ironic because last week at school I had just bought hand soap because I had ran out. By Thursday, we were told we would have Spring Break (this week) and then three weeks of online classes. I left my hand soap at school! This is my last semester in college, so I’m not sure what is going to happen after the three weeks. My brother is also a senior in high school, but so far his spring break is just extended. We don’t have any cases in our surrounding counties but one was close. Stores here are also getting picked at and emptied. What makes it worse is we are kidding! I have a bottle baby and use whole milk/half and half, so I am a little worried that when I run out of what I have I won’t be able to find stuff for her. Though, I don’t have any other reason to leave the house, so I am not worried about contracting it yet!
In some of the cases y’all have described it almost sounds like martial law. We were making jokes about that about road blocks and stuff similar to it, but it seems it is becoming closer and closer to reality.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> My poor granddaughter though; turns 21 on Thursday and can't go out for her first legal drink.


Gotta say... she isn't missing much!


----------



## Sfgwife

SleepingDogRanch said:


> I live in South Texas and am a college student. All of this is so ironic because last week at school I had just bought hand soap because I had ran out. By Thursday, we were told we would have Spring Break (this week) and then three weeks of online classes. I left my hand soap at school! This is my last semester in college, so I'm not sure what is going to happen after the three weeks. My brother is also a senior in high school, but so far his spring break is just extended. We don't have any cases in our surrounding counties but one was close. Stores here are also getting picked at and emptied. What makes it worse is we are kidding! I have a bottle baby and use whole milk/half and half, so I am a little worried that when I run out of what I have I won't be able to find stuff for her. Though, I don't have any other reason to leave the house, so I am not worried about contracting it yet!
> In some of the cases y'all have described it almost sounds like martial law. We were making jokes about that about road blocks and stuff similar to it, but it seems it is becoming closer and closer to reality.


Start looking and callin cattle dairies around you for you bottle milk. Just in case you absolutely have to have it and cannot get it from the grocery. . The kids will do fine on just whole milk. You do not need add the half n half to it.


----------



## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> Gotta say... she isn't missing much!


I quite agree!! My daughter and I are actually tickled. 
But I know she is disappointed.


----------



## luvmyherd

Goats Rock said:


> Guns and ammo are selling like crazy!


I heard a late night comedian making fun of this saying, "you can't shoot a virus." Well, that is true but if the craziness continues it may become necessary to protect your livestock and food supply.
Trust me, I am not a crazy alarmist and am just staying home. But I have seen fights breaking out; especially over the non-essential paper products.


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## Damfino

^ This reminds me of my husband and his computer programmer chat room buddies. A few weeks ago everyone was posting pictures of themselves wearing various types of face masks. Phil posted a photo of himself wearing a cowboy hat with red bandana over his face and pointing a revolver at the camera. Someone replied, "You can't shoot a virus!" and I thought, "No, but you can shoot the host!" (just kidding of course!).


----------



## NDinKY

I know these are all extreme measures being taken, but this virus is so contagious that the hospital I work in is sending all personnel that can work remotely home to work. I’ve never heard of a hospital sending clinical personnel to work from home, that’s how contagious this is. We can do most things through the electronic health record (consults, med adjustments, order verification, team communication), but it is still unheard of for us to work from home and not be rounding with the team. All learners (med, pharmacy, nursing students) have been sent home from rotations. I figure they’re wanting to keep workers from getting sick so when all of our doctors and nurses are too sick to work they’ll call us back in as salvage therapy. 

DeWine and Dr. Amy Acton are saving many lives, protecting the elderly and those in not so perfect health. Based on the data and early closings, Ohio will likely have a lower peak and flattened curve compared to Seattle, allowing greater access to care. Closure of bars and restaurants wouldn’t have had to happen if people would have just stayed home. 

This is all devastating for everyone. It stinks working from home with a 3.5 yr old and 5 yr old “helping”. My husband still has to go in to work (military, his lieutenant doesn’t quite grasp how serious this is yet) and I am worried about him being deployed if things get really bad. My kids surgery that she needs for quality of life (has ruptured her ear drum 7 times, needs a third round of PE tubes and adenoidectomy) was supposed to be next Monday but was canceled, with no rescheduling in sight. But I am grateful for the measures that are being taken as they will save lives. This is not about politics or test runs for martial law. It’s about preserving lives and mitigating damage.


----------



## senoradirt

Crazy Little Goat said:


> I'm not afraid of the virus.
> I'm frightened by the speed with which all of our rights are being stripped away, and our collective blind willingness to comply.
> Our governor, at the last minute, pulled the plug on our primary election lastht.
> Maybe all of this social distancing is the right move and maybe it's not; I wouldn't want to be the one who had to decide what to do. BUT, this feels extreme. We have a handful of cases ( the number is being vastly over reported I believe, unless no one ever recovers from this) and Dewine has shut down EVERYTHING except grocery stores, gas stations, and banks.
> I'm honestly worried that by this time next week it will be illegal to leave my property. And our whole country is going along with it without question.
> The only news is Covid-19.
> I keep thinking that this feels like a science fiction movie and we're all the cast. It's time for the credits to start rolling so we can get back to our regular programming.


In a nutshell. My worries exactly. Opportunistic people like DiBlasio (mayor of New York) closes down the gyms but justifies going himself because he "needs to be healthy." He's considering a lockdown (can't leave your house)for all of NYC. The fact is, this virus still doesn't pose a threat for the vast majority of people. 
There's no reason for curfews and lockdowns are not necessary- but they do it "for our own good."


----------



## Trollmor

Ranger1 said:


> Are you saying Americans aren't the only stupid ones, going into such panic?


I am saying that the rumour I heard was about an event in Sweden.


----------



## CaramelKittey

senoradirt said:


> In a nutshell. My worries exactly. Opportunistic people like DiBlasio (mayor of New York) closes down the gyms but justifies going himself because he "needs to be healthy." He's considering a lockdown (can't leave your house)for all of NYC. The fact is, this virus still doesn't pose a threat for the vast majority of people.
> There's no reason for curfews and lockdowns are not necessary- but they do it "for our own good."


Yes. 
There are WAY to many things the government does for no good reason, but claims it's "for our safety." 
I thought I heard somewhere..the people were supposed to have more rights than the government..but I guess our government recently 'forgot' that.


----------



## Trollmor

NDinKY said:


> I know these are all extreme measures being taken, but this virus is so contagious that the hospital I work in is sending all personnel that can work remotely home to work. I've never heard of a hospital sending clinical personnel to work from home, that's how contagious this is. We can do most things through the electronic health record (consults, med adjustments, order verification, team communication), but it is still unheard of for us to work from home and not be rounding with the team. All learners (med, pharmacy, nursing students) have been sent home from rotations. I figure they're wanting to keep workers from getting sick so when all of our doctors and nurses are too sick to work they'll call us back in as salvage therapy.
> 
> DeWine and Dr. Amy Acton are saving many lives, protecting the elderly and those in not so perfect health. Based on the data and early closings, Ohio will likely have a lower peak and flattened curve compared to Seattle, allowing greater access to care. Closure of bars and restaurants wouldn't have had to happen if people would have just stayed home.
> 
> This is all devastating for everyone. It stinks working from home with a 3.5 yr old and 5 yr old "helping". My husband still has to go in to work (military, his lieutenant doesn't quite grasp how serious this is yet) and I am worried about him being deployed if things get really bad. My kids surgery that she needs for quality of life (has ruptured her ear drum 7 times, needs a third round of PE tubes and adenoidectomy) was supposed to be next Monday but was canceled, with no rescheduling in sight. But I am grateful for the measures that are being taken as they will save lives. This is not about politics or test runs for martial law. It's about preserving lives and mitigating damage.


Very well said, @NDinKY! As for this:


NDinKY said:


> It stinks working from home with a 3.5 yr old and 5 yr old "helping".


oh my poor stomach! :funnytech:


----------



## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> "You can't shoot a virus!" and I thought, "No, but you can shoot the host!" (just kidding of course!).


Well, one of my friends certainly wished for such a solution the other day: He was buying storable food, and one woman fellow customer had brought THREE very snotty kids into the store. _An elderly fellow customer_ said:
- Those children should have stayed at home!
_The mother:_
- Oh no, I care for my kids, the corona is not dangerous to them, only to you elderly people, and you have not cared for the climate, so best you all die!
_A shop assistant:_
- At least you could blow their noses.
_The mother:_
- If this is the treatment I get here, I will not return for shopping!!!
_The shop assistant:_
- I do not believe our other customers will miss you so very much.

Afterwards, my friend and I agreed: Having three children and one more on the way, and buying machine dishwashing powder, she is such a polluter, that she does not deserve to live on this wonderful planet!

_(Let us hope that the translation machine gave me the correct words!)_


----------



## NDinKY

That’s awful Trollmor. People like that mother are the reason the government is having to lock things down. 

Fortunately snotty kids are common (mine seem like they constantly have colds) and most cases of COVID-19 don’t produce a lot of thick snot you get with the common cold. Rather it is fever, dry cough, and shortness of breath for the common symptoms.


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## Trollmor

Yes, they say it takes all sorts to make a world ...


----------



## Damfino

NDinKY said:


> I know these are all extreme measures being taken, but this virus is so contagious...


Interesting. Two weeks ago the CDC website said COVID-19 is less contagious than seasonal flu but more deadly to old people with other health problems. The cruise ship scenario seemed to bear this out. I guess the science has changed since then. I'm wondering how anyone knows whether it is more/less contagious or deadly since they don't actually know how many people had/have it. It's not like the entire population of any country has been tested for antibodies. How many people already got it and will never know they had it? A solid half will probably not show any symptoms at all, and of the ones who show symptoms, only a fraction will need to go to the hospital. That makes these positive cases impossible to count. It also severely skews the "official" numbers because the actual disease prevalence in the population will never be known. The few that are severe enough to require hospitalization are going to skew the "deadliness" percentages way up.


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## Damfino

Oh, and when I got back from Arizona to my little hometown in Colorado the toilet paper was gone from the shelves. ????

I toilet paper hoarding is not a new phenomenon (I remember Y2K, and my family was friends with a few apocalyptic hoarders back in the 1980's), but I will never understand it. When I start to run low I look for a sale on the giant bulk packages. I had bought one a couple of weeks before all the madness started so I should be set for a few months.


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## healthyishappy

Damfino said:


> Two weeks ago the CDC website said COVID-19 is less contagious than seasonal flu


Honestly, I wouldn't believe anything that came from the CDC. They have a bad history and they're in it for the money.


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## Damfino

I would kind of agree with you... but they are not _nearly_ as "in it for the money" as the news outlets. News outlets are absolutely terrible. Nothing any of them say can be trusted at all. Phil and I were scouring the CDC and other official websites for info two weeks ago because he had a plane trip to a business retreat in Austin. Other than for pure entertainment, we stayed far away from anything that came from the news if we wanted actual, factual information. News outlets exist for one reason only: To make money selling headlines and clickbait. The more hysterical they are, and the more they can work people into a tizzy, the more "relevant" they become and the more ad revenue they generate. In order to avoid being "scooped," news organizations push out headlines before stories are vetted for accuracy. The more sensational it is, the more people gobble it up and thus begins the vicious cycle.

People also love being the bearer of bad tidings. Here's a funny story from our trip to AZ this past weekend. We were with Phil's aunt and uncle who are in their 70's and enjoy watching the news. Phil and I don't have television at home so the news in particular tends to drive us mad when it's on. It was nice of Uncle Steve to leave the TV turned off most of the time we were there. However, it didn't stop his buddies from calling on the phone! Steve went to bed around 8:00 while the rest of us stayed up to watch a movie. Sometime around 10:00 the phone rang. Aunt Marianne didn't pick it up so I thought it would go to voicemail. But no! Apparently Steve had picked it up in the bedroom because a few minutes later he comes barging out in his skivvies, waving the phone in the air with an _urgent inside scoop_ from his friend in the navy! He said Trump was going to make an announcement tomorrow that the entire U.S. would be under quarantine. Of course, the friend did not elaborate on what that meant but it sure sounded dramatic! Almost gave my mother-in-law a heart attack because she and my father-in-law were supposed to fly back to MA the next day. Of course next morning we found out it was all fake news.


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## NDinKY

Two weeks ago I wasn’t concerned. In fact I went to Florida and Disney. We didn’t have the full picture at that time. Seemed like it was like the flu. Hardly any cases and they were in Washington and NY. Only 2 in the entire state of Florida. We returned to my university moving classes online and I was shocked. The situation in Italy is really what changed my mind, along with the data. These next 10 days will be very telling. Unfortunately our known cases are tracking with almost the exact same timeline as Italy, we’re just about 10 days behind. 

Just got out of a webinar update from my health system. It had over 550 attendees. Everyone is taking this extremely seriously. The absolute best thing you can do is stay home unless absolutely necessary. 

There are a lot of rumor about quarantine. Who knows if there is any credibility to them. They’ll have to keep grocery, pharmacy, gas, and essential services running.


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## Trollmor

:2c:
Panic or stay calm? I say, as long as we _do not know_ this virus, let us rather be safe than sorry, and pick up the pieces afterwards!

Exchanges going down? They had better learn, they steer too much as it is.


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## toth boer goats

Trump may be sending out $1,000 to each adult, to help out things because of the virus, within 2 weeks.


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## NDinKY

Trollmor said:


> :2c:
> Panic or stay calm? I say, as long as we _do not know_ this virus, let us rather be safe than sorry, and pick up the pieces afterwards!
> 
> Exchanges going down? They had better learn, they steer too much as it is.


Panic does nothing productive. Stay calm, keep home, limit exposure. If you get sick, keep yourself away from anyone else in your house. Don't go to the hospital unless you have severe symptoms (such as shortness of breath). Do not use antiinflammatories such as ibuprofen (Advil/Motrin) or naproxen (Aleve) based on worsening complications seen in France. For fever use acetaminophen/paracetamol (Tylenol) instead.

Stay safe, and look out for each other, especially those in the vulnerable population.


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## Goats Rock

It's kind of too bad as people are herd animals and we need to stay away from each other. I had to take someone somewhere, today (I must be the only one with a drivers license!) and someone walked towards me, we both moved away from each other at the same time! Kind of an "OH, I don't know you, You might be sick so I'll get a ways away from you!"


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## senoradirt

Damfino said:


> News outlets are absolutely terrible. Nothing any of them say can be trusted at all.


That's the nub of it. I don't trust the media, they've lied too often. I'm going to pay attention, learn what I can, apply my own common sense. I've had a very good day hanging with the does and not watching cable TV.

The CoVID cases in China are decreasing, from what we've learned- the Chinese are starting to get out and about- and by all accounts we can expect the worst to be over by May. We're going to be fine.


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> People also love being the bearer of bad tidings.


What's that about anyway. My mother-in-law could never wait to call me with any bad news that came down the pike. Her excuse was always that she wanted to make sure I did not hear it from, *somebody else.*
I am trying very hard to keep my news watching to a bare minimum and to try to eke out the truth as best I can.



Goats Rock said:


> It's kind of too bad as people are herd animals and we need to stay away from each other. I had to take someone somewhere, today (I must be the only one with a drivers license!) and someone walked towards me, we both moved away from each other at the same time! Kind of an "OH, I don't know you, You might be sick so I'll get a ways away from you!"


I noticed weeks ago that even though there was still food and people were shopping they did not even make eye contact. Walmart was eerily quiet.

I have a feeling that I will get a text or email telling me not to go to physical therapy next week. Not sure I want to go anywhere *medical* at this time.


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## NDinKY

Damfino said:


> Interesting. Two weeks ago the CDC website said COVID-19 is less contagious than seasonal flu but more deadly to old people with other health problems. The cruise ship scenario seemed to bear this out. I guess the science has changed since then. I'm wondering how anyone knows whether it is more/less contagious or deadly since they don't actually know how many people had/have it. It's not like the entire population of any country has been tested for antibodies. How many people already got it and will never know they had it? A solid half will probably not show any symptoms at all, and of the ones who show symptoms, only a fraction will need to go to the hospital. That makes these positive cases impossible to count. It also severely skews the "official" numbers because the actual disease prevalence in the population will never be known. The few that are severe enough to require hospitalization are going to skew the "deadliness" percentages way up.


You're totally right, it's hard to know how deadly this is with so many asymptomatic infections or mild infections that haven't been tested. It would be awesome if we could test everyone for antibody titers to get true numbers. As the denominator of known cases goes up with more testing, hopefully the mortality drops. The problem is this is a new virus so none of us have immunity, unlike viruses like influenza where we have vaccinations and exposure. So if 70% of the population gets this, and only 0.5% die, we're still talking millions of deaths in the US alone. That is why the extreme measures. We want to have enough vents and ECMO for everyone who needs them. We need enough PPE to keep our healthcare workers protected.

There is emerging data that even asymptomatic or mild symptoms still demonstrate damage to the lungs on X-ray. Currently the infectivity is Ro=2.3-3.5. As long as this is greater than 1 it will keep spreading. Measles is more contagious with Ro=12; fortunately we have a vaccine for that.


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## Oliveoil

Something I heard from someone, that is pure speculation. Is that this virus didn't take months to get to the U.S. It has been here for a while and already been spreading. Hospitals in our area have been full because of flu and pneumonia cases the whole winter. I don't know if this holds any truth or not, as I said pure speculation, but something to think about.


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## Damfino

NDinKY said:


> So if 70% of the population gets this, and only 0.5% die, we're still talking millions of deaths in the US alone.


I seriously doubt 70% of people will get this. I'm thinking probably more like 20% will get it. I also think less than 0.5% will die. If I'm reading all the numbers correctly, so far the WHO estimates that between 2-4% of hospitalized (serious) COVID-19 cases die. That's a better percentage than the seasonal flu, for which 10% of hospitalized cases end in death. (~400,000/year hospitalized with flu and ~40,000/year die). The big question is, what percentage of people who get this new virus will end up hospitalized? We will probably never know the answer. And do hospitalization rates go up when people are stressed from worrying about a pandemic? We'll never know the answer to that one either.

I also still think Oliveoil's theory may be right--this virus has been in the U.S. undetected for several months and we're closing the gate after the goats already left the pasture! It was first _detected_ in China in November which means it was probably floating around there for quite a while before anyone noticed. Most cases feel an awful lot like your typical cold/flu so why would anyone question it? The U.S. and China have TONS of back and forth travel all year round. If China had cases going around in October and November (and if it spreads as easily as they're now saying), then there's no way the U.S. didn't have plenty of cases going around within days or weeks of China's outbreaks. But naturally we would think it was any other cold/flu. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it makes sense to me, and wouldn't it be nice if it were the case!


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## CaramelKittey

senoradirt said:


> That's the nub of it. I don't trust the media, they've lied too often. I'm going to pay attention, learn what I can, apply my own common sense. I've had a very good day hanging with the does and not watching cable TV.
> 
> The CoVID cases in China are decreasing, from what we've learned- the Chinese are starting to get out and about- and by all accounts we can expect the worst to be over by May. We're going to be fine.


I agree. We cut the cord a while ago and stick to news sources by highly credible citizen journalists who aren't just in it for the money. 
I agree we will all be fine, and get through this like we all have whenever any virus is going around-use common sense.


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## healthyishappy

I think I could handle a few more Corona viruses if my parents keep going on these shopping sprees!


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## healthyishappy

Anybody wanna say crap?
This has gone way too far.... farther than I thought it would.
People need to realize that America is NOT great anymore. We are heading right into communism. Many things go on behind the scenes.....


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## CaramelKittey

healthyishappy said:


> Anybody wanna say crap?
> This has gone way too far.... farther than I thought it would.
> People need to realize that America is NOT great anymore. We are heading right into communism. Many things go on behind the scenes.....


Yes. There is certainly a lot of stuff happening in the government that the citizens are unaware of, for the most part. 
There are too many college students pushing for socialism (communism with a new name) because that's all they've ever been taught. Glad I was homeschooled.


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## Kristendanae

healthyishappy said:


> Anybody wanna say crap?
> This has gone way too far.... farther than I thought it would.
> People need to realize that America is NOT great anymore. We are heading right into communism. Many things go on behind the scenes.....


It's definitely scary. This is just another reason on my long list of reasons why my family and I decided to start growing and raising our own food a few years ago.


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## Kristendanae

I have to do my regular grocery shopping today and I'm beyond stressed out. The city I shop in is pretty big and on normal days it's busy and I'm assuming today will be crazy. Thankfully we bought a mega pack of toilet paper like 4-6 weeks ago and we still have a ton left. Probably enough to last another 2 months. My husband says when they get it in at Walmart it's gone within an hour or two.


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## Chris488

We stay pretty stocked up around here even in good times, usually have a few weeks worth of stuff on hand. When this landed in Washington a few weeks ago, we started bulking up our supply while at the same time not "panic buying". Mostly because I knew it wouldn't take long before people freaked out. 

Sure enough, they did, and now the store shelves are often empty around here. I went for a regular trip to Sam's Club yesterday and people are still hoarding toilet paper. Me, I just got the things I went for, in a couple instances buying two instead of one, and came home. Oh, and a trip to the liquor store for a few extra bottles of wine. 

I'm a school bus driver so I'm off till April 14th, although last night a local school superintendent didn't rule out the idea that schools could be closed even longer. 

What bothers me most about all this is it's our oldest son's senior year and I hate to see him miss out on time with his friends, his last school concert, senior trip, graduation ceremony, etc. He's taking it in stride but I also know it bugs him.


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## Goats Rock

You are lucky to be able to buy wine, PA closed all the liquor and wine stores! Poor PA! mg:

On another note, Spring break in Fla. I realize that Spring Break is an important part of college. (I had a great time at Daytona many years ago!) but, with all the states trying to contain this largely unknown threat, all those kids will be returning to their home states, bringing potential devastation with them. What right do those selfish kids (and their parents, who should know better) have to possibly infect entire communities? 

Fla. is so determined to protect their precious tourism industry that they are willing to risk the health of the entire USA. My solution is to make Fla. keep all those Spring Breakers! (I know, that isn't feasible or nice, but, we are all sacrificing so much and it could all be for naught.....). Ok, I'm off my soap box! :ahh:


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## Chris488

Goats Rock said:


> You are lucky to be able to buy wine, PA closed all the liquor and wine stores! Poor PA!


We're right on the border with PA, so I'm sure the local stores are going to be doing a great business as long as they're able to stay open.


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## lottsagoats1

Currently in my state of Maine- schools are shut down for anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month. Restaurants and bars are closed, fast foods places can only do takeout. Dentist offices are closed. Courts are closed and they are talking about letting inmates with misdemeanors free. However, things like domestic violence, OUI, assaults and some sex crimes are misdemeanors! Cops have been told not to arrest people. Yeah, great plans for public safety, well thought out by our stupid (ultra liberal) governor. Most elective surgeries and treatments are stopped to conserve supplies. The rates of Covid 19 positives are almost doubling. My place of employment, the local hospital, has set up tents to screen all patients, visitors, vendors and staff for Covid symptoms or restrictions (out of state or country visits etc) , and testing those that meet the criteria. One entire Med floor is set up for all positives that need medical assistance (mostly respiratory). All visitation has been stopped on the behavioral health/rehab floors and Emergency room, other departments are limited to 1 visitor and we have restricted visiting hours, when before they were none. No one under 18 is allowed to visit. No spending the nights for the visitors, when the rooms are set up for that. The father of the baby to be or newborn is allowed to stay, but once in the maternity wing, cannot leave except during visiting hours. 

Stores are pretty much empty of paper and sanitizing products. We have enough stuff already, so we didn't need to dash out and get anything expect my normal weekly groceries for work meals. My feed store is still open. Most veterinarians are also. Town offices are closed and the state Humane departments have put a hold on dog licensing until the worse is over. All sporting activities and events have been cancelled. A lot of small businesses have been shut down. I so feel sorry for them, their livelihood going down the drain.

I took vacation for May so I can attend the 3 day goat show for the first time in many years. Now that may be out the door. Fortunately, I bred for late kids, so by the time they are ready to go, the worst of this should be behind us.

Be safe everyone. Watch out for your elderly, littles and those with immune and other illnesses. Don't take a chance on visiting them, contact by phone or through a window. If you have to deliver much needed supplies to them, wear gloves and disinfect all that can be disinfected before dropping them off, outside their door. And most of all- don't panic and don't hoard! Other people need supplies, also. Don't be a selfish butthole. Remember, Karma returns threefold! If you were a decent human being, good things will be sent your way. If you were a selfish, mean spirited butthead, your life will be miserable.


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## Jessica84

No alcohol or gun sales allowed in California either. Good thing I’m fully stocked on guns anyways lol
I’m in Madera county and the county over is Fresno. When they shut down the schools here it was because Fresno did and we mix with Fresno so much was their reason. Well Fresno has now made it so only essential stores are open. That means grocery, gas station and I THINK fast food. It better be fast food for the truckers! Anyways it didn’t say anything about feed stores so I’m curious if they are shut down. But this also means that my county will be following as well. 
My sister in law works for a hospital and when she was at work yesterday she was notified that someone came in and tested positive. 
My daughters teacher called yesterday and told me she put together a packet of work for the kids and I can pick them up in the office. I was like awesome! That’s a great idea basically we are going to be doing a true homeschool and I asked when it was due. It’s not, it won’t be graded it’s just something for the kids to do. But then it got me thinking. Why isn’t it? Such a easy solution! Email the work, when she’s done we can fax/ scan and send it back and school goes on. I’m not sure why this annoys me so much but it really does.


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## healthyishappy

CaramelKittey said:


> Yes. There is certainly a lot of stuff happening in the government that the citizens are unaware of, for the most part.
> There are too many college students pushing for socialism (communism with a new name) because that's all they've ever been taught. Glad I was homeschooled.


Yup. Not many people stay informed.

OH I KNOW! Gosh that irritates me! Socialism IS a good concept- the problem is that it cannot work because we always have corrupted leaders. Communists have been working toward that for a LONG time. Socialism or communism, it all ends up with no freedom for the people.

I am SO glad my parents chose to homeschool me. It's been really hard for my mom but i'm eternally grateful.


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## healthyishappy

Our Walmart now is BARREN, no canned foods or hardly anything. My dad also had to stand in a 200 foot line at Costco.


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## lottsagoats1

My son, daughter in law and grandson had it in late January. My DIL works at a major cancer treatment hospital that have patients from all over the world. They were sicker than sick, but Covid 19 wasn't really thought of back then in the US. 

They are now finding that kids are also at risk with it, many are in the hospitals with respirators. While younger people may not be severely affected by this, they can easily spread it to their older relatives or neighbors. Would you want to be responsible for the death of you grandparents or parents just because you aren't afraid of it?? Italy has way more hospitals than the US for the population %. They are in lockdown. But, they are also having to decide who to treat and save and who is left to die. Elderly people, people with severe illnesses and such are refused treatment because there are no more treatment beds. They are sent home to die. Do you really want that in your state?


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## Damfino

I was talking with one of my college student friends yesterday who is currently in quarantine (she had a class project with a guy who was hanging out with a group of skiers, several of whom tested positive). We were wondering why they canceled college classes and sent everyone home. Wouldn't it have made more sense to cancel spring break and quarantine the colleges? Colleges are nice, self-contained units with their own dormitories, food service, and medical facilities that are not open to the general public. They seem like the perfect place to keep students, who are at low risk themselves but could infect others, until there's a lid on this thing. By sending them home, not only did they create a housing and financial crisis for the students, but they also dispersed them all over the country to live with older parents and grandparents who are far more at risk than the friends they would have been living with at school. I don't understand the reasoning behind some of the decisions being made.


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## Damfino

lottsagoats1 said:


> Would you want to be responsible for the death of you grandparents or parents just because you aren't afraid of it??


I think this is the wrong question. For example, my father is in the last stages of cancer and would be considered "high risk" for contracting this disease. However, everything for him is high risk at this point. If a family member accidentally made him sick and he *technically* died of COVID-19, we would all still say he died of cancer. A person in my father's position is a ticking time bomb. His number is up and whatever finally finishes him off will not be what actually killed him. I'm not sure it's very responsible to lay blame on other people for "killing" the few unfortunate folks who aren't able to withstand a virus such as this, which generally presents fairly mild symptoms. There are many viruses and bacteria that kill elderly and infirm people every year and we don't blame the carriers. Heck, an estimated 400,000 people die from preventable doctor/hospital mistakes every year in the U.S. and we don't bat an eye! I think it's important to maintain perspective.

On the other hand, I wonder how many deaths will result from a prolonged shut-down? When people lose their jobs even temporarily, it affects whether they can afford to see a doctor or fill prescriptions. How many people will no longer be able to afford co-pays or will lose insurance coverage altogether? By trying (perhaps too hard) to prevent the short-term spread of this one disease, we may inadvertently be causing a massive long-term health crisis in other ways. If the economy crashes, it will likely be worse than anything this particular virus could do to people.


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## Oliveoil

Jessica, that does seem ridiculous. My school is sending home homework too, however, this is going to count as days in school, so we don't have to make them up. I would be furious if my school didn't do anything now and then made us go to school until July. However, my school is definitely one that tries to keep the school year as on schedule and as short as possible. In good conditions, we start after Labor Day and are done before Memorial Day. But, we are definitely in the minority of schools that want to get the kids out as soon as they can. Extending the school year is something they do only as a last resort.


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## Trollmor

Jessica84 said:


> Email the work, when she's done we can fax/ scan and send it back and school goes on.


One woman on the call-in radio here said she normally works from home, and now with "everybody" starting to do the same, her connection got slow. Stupid me, I never thought of that ...


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## jschies

In southeast Texas they made a regionwide decision to shut the schools down at the same time. I am so proud that my school was able to send home each student's Chromebook along with hot spots for those without internet. Our students will go to their Google classroom to find their assignments and complete things online. I don't know how many school districts could do that. The students and teachers are able to ask and answer questions by email. I hope that will give my students a little normalcy in this weird time.


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## NDinKY

Ag supply stores are considered essential so places like tractor supply should still be open. I got a notice today that they will be modifying their hours to 8 am - 6 pm M-Sa and 9 am - 6 pm Sunday.


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## luvmyherd

Chris488 said:


> What bothers me most about all this is it's our oldest son's senior year and I hate to see him miss out on time with his friends, his last school concert, senior trip, graduation ceremony, etc. He's taking it in stride but I also know it bugs him.


We have a similar issue. My 8th grade grandson has gone to the same small, magnet school since kindergarten. Most of the kids he knows have been there that long too. We received no warning that our schools were closing; teachers found out on Friday evening. So Friday may have been his last day with his school *family* and they had no clue.

Our Walmart has started having *senior hours* early in the morning. I am not going to rush off as we do not need to but we will probably venture out next week for a few things that could run low soon.


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## luvmyherd

Oh yeah!
Without even planning it we ended up with way more wine in the cupboard than usual. Could come in handy.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

NDinKY said:


> You're totally right, it's hard to know how deadly this is with so many asymptomatic infections or mild infections that haven't been tested. It would be awesome if we could test everyone for antibody titers to get true numbers. As the denominator of known cases goes up with more testing, hopefully the mortality drops. The problem is this is a new virus so none of us have immunity, unlike viruses like influenza where we have vaccinations and exposure. So if 70% of the population gets this, and only 0.5% die, we're still talking millions of deaths in the US alone. That is why the extreme measures. We want to have enough vents and ECMO for everyone who needs them. We need enough PPE to keep our healthcare workers protected.
> 
> There is emerging data that even asymptomatic or mild symptoms still demonstrate damage to the lungs on X-ray. Currently the infectivity is Ro=2.3-3.5. As long as this is greater than 1 it will keep spreading. Measles is more contagious with Ro=12; fortunately we have a vaccine for that.


I don't like to cause fights or disagreement, but I will say I don't believe that argument, the "we have immunity to influenza but not the coronavirus" holds water.

We have immunity to most strains of the flu, but every so often (which is actually quite often, even yearly) an antigenic drift happens, where the virus itself mutates to the point where our bodies no longer have the antibodies to fight it. That is why they come out with new flu vaccines yearly, it is constantly changing.

While humans may not have immunity to this "novel" COVID-19, we do have built up immunity against human coronaviruses, which provides slight aid in fighting it... same as the flu. Things change and mutate, but all in all, we have existed amongst them forever. Coronaviruses tend to be a cause of the common cold... so chances are, if you've had a lot of colds in your life, you've probably had a coronavirus!

I'll leave it with my favorite quote to ponder on at the moment...

"Trust what you see... not what you hear."


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## NDinKY

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I don't like to cause fights or disagreement, but I will say I don't believe that argument, the "we have immunity to influenza but not the coronavirus" holds water.
> 
> We have immunity to most strains of the flu, but every so often (which is actually quite often, even yearly) an antigenic drift happens, where the virus itself mutates to the point where our bodies no longer have the antibodies to fight it. That is why they come out with new flu vaccines yearly, it is constantly changing.
> 
> While humans may not have immunity to this "novel" COVID-19, we do have built up immunity against human coronaviruses, which provides slight aid in fighting it... same as the flu. Things change and mutate, but all in all, we have existed amongst them forever. Coronaviruses tend to be a cause of the common cold... so chances are, if you've had a lot of colds in your life, you've probably had a coronavirus!
> 
> I'll leave it with my favorite quote to ponder on at the moment...
> 
> "Trust what you see... not what you hear."


I don't want to argue with anyone here, but I am concerned with those blowing this disease off or thinking it is a hoax as they will unintentionally be infecting those who are elderly or have comorbidites. People are dying. Italy's death rate has now surpassed that of Wuhan.

We all have had coronaviruses. That family is responsible for the common cold. What is special about this one is it has jumped from an animal vector so it's viral coat is not something our human white cells have seen before. It is not the same as human coronaviruses commonly running around.

I trust what I see (work in a hospital) and have read many manuscripts to stay as up to date as possible and be able to provide the best care I can for my patients when I am called in. We have daily meetings about COVID-19. It's not hit us hard yet but it is coming. I am thankful that Ohio and Kentucky have been so proactive. This area of the country will likely fare better than areas that did not take an aggressive approach.


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## Susie Bosch

we are still living our lives social distancing for us is the normal for us we just only go out to get food or feed which I still have a 2 week supply for all my animals since I buy in bulk... This was my boyfriend's field in the military, he's not to concern with it... He is keeping up with the chatter and we are prepared but not stressing about it... when he says its time to worry than ill worry... Until then I am milking my goats playing with my dogs... and getting props done for our DND games.


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## CaramelKittey

https://www.breitbart.com/health/20...rnor-issues-stay-at-home-order-for-residents/
This is just getting crazier and crazier. I'm sorry for those who live in California. Don't worry though, NJ is probably next..


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## CaramelKittey

healthyishappy said:


> Yup. Not many people stay informed.
> 
> OH I KNOW! Gosh that irritates me! Socialism IS a good concept- the problem is that it cannot work because we always have corrupted leaders. Communists have been working toward that for a LONG time. Socialism or communism, it all ends up with no freedom for the people.
> 
> I am SO glad my parents chose to homeschool me. It's been really hard for my mom but i'm eternally grateful.


Exactly. I've heard it said the difference between socialists (communists who don't know they are communists but they believe whatever the media says) and capitalists is somewhat simple: Capitalists want you equal at the starting line (the harder you work, the more you earn) and socialists want you equal at the finish line (equal no matter how hard you work.) I just can't believe people fall for the communist garbage.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

NDinKY said:


> I don't want to argue with anyone here, but I am concerned with those blowing this disease off or thinking it is a hoax as they will unintentionally be infecting those who are elderly or have comorbidites. People are dying. Italy's death rate has now surpassed that of Wuhan.
> 
> We all have had coronaviruses. That family is responsible for the common cold. What is special about this one is it has jumped from an animal vector so it's viral coat is not something our human white cells have seen before. It is not the same as human coronaviruses commonly running around.
> 
> I trust what I see (work in a hospital) and have read many manuscripts to stay as up to date as possible and be able to provide the best care I can for my patients when I am called in. We have daily meetings about COVID-19. It's not hit us hard yet but it is coming. I am thankful that Ohio and Kentucky have been so proactive. This area of the country will likely fare better than areas that did not take an aggressive approach.


It's important to take precautions, anyway. I think there's a lot of misinformation about just because you don't trust everything being put out, you are going around coughing on old people for the fun of it.

I'm a germaphobe, not about the coronavirus, about EVERYTHING!! I am pleased to see people wiping down surfaces, staying home of they're sick, and all of the above...

In fact, I think a quarantine period once or twice a year for schools and businesses is downright genius to prevent the spread of all illnesses.

Nobody is wrong here, everyone is being safe and taking precautions, everything else is just personal opinion, which everyone is welcome to have as it's not harming anyone.

I don't often get accounts from individuals working in hospitals, have you been seeing a lot of confirmed cases and hospital beds filling up? It's nice to hear firsthand information, I think everyone can appreciate that!! Thank you!!


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## NDinKY

We have not had many inpatient cases yet, most have been outpatient. Our census is actually very low, with all the elective surgeries being canceled and I think the frequent fliers are staying away too. We are bracing for an overwhelming number of patients. Youtube has some videos from ICUs in Italy, with patient after patient proned on vents. Hall beds everywhere. It is very scary. 

I’m not a germaphobe at all. We see patients with all sorts of weird/contagious diseases. This one scares me. Not for myself so much but for my parents. For my fellow healthcare workers, especially my physician and nurse colleagues on the front line. 

I hope everyone is being safe. All these college kids packing the beaches in Florida, likely spreading it around and then bringing it back to their hometowns. It’s behavior like that which caused all the mandates on closing bars/restaurants/etc. People aren’t taking it seriously or don’t think it will happen to them.


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## Jessica84

CaramelKittey said:


> https://www.breitbart.com/health/20...rnor-issues-stay-at-home-order-for-residents/
> This is just getting crazier and crazier. I'm sorry for those who live in California. Don't worry though, NJ is probably next..


Really that's not bad. And I'm a Californian  well I mean it's bad for the people who can not work not shutting down places like dine in and fitness and what not, I can't believe I'm saying this since I don't like the man, but I agree with it. The restaurants in my area they just now have it so that you call in for your orders. The feed store you call in and then drive up and honk your horn. Banks, hardware stores, gas stations and grocery stores are still open and still allowing people to get what they need like normal. 
I'm pretty much a hermit as it is so this really isn't going to effect me. I'm kinda in the middle of the freak out scale lol I don't think it's 100% no big deal, but I also don't think it's something to buy all the TP over. Although I'm sure If anyone is going to get it it's probably my family since my husband is a fire fighter and although he doesn't have to go on medical aids any more because he's a heavy equipment operator, he still has to work with the guys that do. But as far as I know there has been no cases in the county he works in. Mine now has 3. I kinda wish the news would say where those cases are though. There's a LOT of towns in this county. But I already decided I am NOT shopping in my town since it's the gateway to Yosemite and people are still traveling from all over to go there. Although I wonder if with this they will close it up.


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## Damfino

_King of the Hill_ is one of my favorite TV shows. Just watched episode 10 from season 4: "Hillenium". Seemed appropriate.


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## Trollmor

CaramelKittey said:


> Exactly. I've heard it said the difference between socialists (communists who don't know they are communists but they believe whatever the media says) and capitalists is somewhat simple: Capitalists want you equal at the starting line (the harder you work, the more you earn) and socialists want you equal at the finish line (equal no matter how hard you work.) I just can't believe people fall for the communist garbage.


I guess this is on its way to get political, but I need to say that I disagree. Capitalism means you can earn money because you already possess money. Communism is state capitalism, and just as bad. Socialism means you divide the burdens equally, so that you don't go broke just because your health goes down.

Of course hard work shall be well paid, but not according to your parents' and grandparents' wallets. Things I believe shall be tax payed are, for example, schools, science, a reliable news agency, railways, health care. And all must be transparent, so that the tax money really lands where it is aimed!!! This latter might be the most difficult part ...


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## healthyishappy

CaramelKittey said:


> Exactly. I've heard it said the difference between socialists (communists who don't know they are communists but they believe whatever the media says) and capitalists is somewhat simple: Capitalists want you equal at the starting line (the harder you work, the more you earn) and socialists want you equal at the finish line (equal no matter how hard you work.) I just can't believe people fall for the communist garbage.


That is a SUPER good definition. The only people who want socialism is the people who don't want to work. How's an economy supposed to run off people that don't want to work? That's why all those people are stuck working $7.25 an hour jobs. I can't blame them for hating it. But the only way you move up is to be smart and work super hard.


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## healthyishappy

Trollmor said:


> I guess this is on its way to get political, but I need to say that I disagree. Capitalism means you can earn money because you already possess money. Communism is state capitalism, and just as bad. Socialism means you divide the burdens equally, so that you don't go broke just because your health goes down.
> 
> Of course hard work shall be well paid, but not according to your parents' and grandparents' wallets. Things I believe shall be tax payed are, for example, schools, science, a reliable news agency, railways, health care. And all must be transparent, so that the tax money really lands where it is aimed!!! This latter might be the most difficult part ...


It doesn't necessarily mean that you earn money because you already have it. MANY of the rich people today do teach their children and give them huge sums to build a business. But I don't see what's wrong with that. If they have the financial skill then they deserve to be rich. Anybody can become rich. It just takes longer to build funds from smaller businesses to dump into a long lasting business. So many people hate rich people and think they should just give them money. But if your not willing to work, you don't get. That's the way I think it should be. With socialism the state has too much power. America HAS lasted in freedom as long as it has because the moral of the people was strong and we have a good constitution and government setup. Unfortunately that is now decaying.


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## ksalvagno

I think the frequent fliers are staying away too. 

I love it. We aren't the only ones who call people frequent fliers. I work at a hospital too. Definitely have fewer people coming in. Certainly not empty but the minor colds and flu people that get no medication anyway because it is a virus aren't coming in for every sneeze and sniffle.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

ksalvagno said:


> I think the frequent fliers are staying away too.
> 
> I love it. We aren't the only ones who call people frequent fliers. I work at a hospital too. Definitely have fewer people coming in. Certainly not empty but the minor colds and flu people that get no medication anyway because it is a virus aren't coming in for every sneeze and sniffle.


What do you do in the hospital?


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## Jessica84

Ok CarmelKitty you can go back to feeling bad for us. I am absolutely livid and this is more of a rant, but so stupid, I really dislike this state at the moment.
So back in December we no longer we allowed to register a perfectly good semi truck because of the new carb law. Whatever not much we could do about it. Wednesday they held a online auction, to make sure they complied with the 10 people rule. Anyways we bought a new truck, it’s paid for, we have $40,000 less in our account, it IS OURS! This auction is 4 hours away and thank goodness my husband has a awesome friend that flew them up. It was a fluke he decided he didn’t have anything better to do so rode over with them instead of flying home because when they got to the place is shut down. The county came in and shut them down, even though it’s not even a auction at this point but a place that hands paperwork and keys to their owners. If the auction was going on I totally would have understood, a equipment auction is not a essential business. We tried to explain that trucks are considered essential, this stupid governor even announced it this morning but because it’s there and they are not essential we can’t get it. 
So all this means, we now either have to keep paying $16 a bale for the animals, we are feeding 10 bales a day. Or we make the 6 hour trip to our place up north and bring 100 bales down at a time. So every 10 days make a 12 hour round trip. We also just got approved for a BLM lease but we don’t have a truck to take them up there. So pay a ton of money to hire someone to haul the cows or pay for something we can’t get cows to. If that happens and we still can’t get the truck In a month we will be feeding 20-30 bales depending on how the grass holds up. 
So at this point I’m no longer taking this virus well, I’m down right livid over it all. We are screwed over a half butted attempt at a lock down. 
Ok rant over


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## ksalvagno

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> What do you do in the hospital?


Registration Clerk. I register all patients for ER and Urgent Care. So I'm the first person that comes into contact with all the sick people that walk through the door.

That is horrible and ridiculous, Jessica.


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## NDinKY

ksalvagno said:


> Registration Clerk. I register all patients for ER and Urgent Care. So I'm the first person that comes into contact with all the sick people that walk through the door.


Stay safe, I hope you guys have a good stock of PPE.


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## HoosierShadow

Jessica - that is absolutely horrible! You would think they would at least allow you to get the truck! Ugh. I would be beyond livid as well. I am so sorry, I hope you guys can get it figured out soon. 
I am way behind, and meant to post yesterday about school - here the kids are working online. They are called NTI days (Non Traditional Instruction), middle/high and I think even some elementary kids get Chromebooks from the school, and can do their assignments daily. I'm so glad they set up the NTI a few years or so ago, that away the kids are able to do work through this.

The school called this afternoon and said our county is now out of school until April 20th. This is very sad. I know it's necessary, but wow  It still feels very unreal.
Some of my friends/friends daughters & my husband's niece are seniors this year, and the girls are taking it hard. I feel so bad for them as they are so active in school, and are looking forward to all of the springtime traditional memories - prom, senior trips, etc. along with clubs/music they are involved in. Very sad for them.

We've stayed home since I went to the grocery on Monday morning to grab a few things. I did go help my friend deliver some babies yesterday morning, but it was an easy delivery by the time I got there thankfully. 
I need to try and brave the grocery store tomorrow morning. Perishables, and some odds and ends. My 2 teenagers are eating us out of the house already. I'm planning to go early about the time they open and hope it's not totally chaotic, but I am sure it will be.
After that... drop groceries at home, help with goats, and I need to run to a neighboring county to Southern States to get some dewormer. I use Valbazen fairly often and that is the only place I can find it locally. I have a couple of does to deworm, and babies are due for cd/t booster on Sunday. So hopefully after that we can stay home.

So far, my husband's job is not being affected, thankfully. He works with horses, and they are of course agriculture. He also works on a private farm and only about a handful of employees. 
I however, am out of spring work, since the racetrack cancelled the April spring meet, and the Kentucky Derby was moved from May to Sept. It will hurt losing that income.
We're waiting to see if the KY Dept of Agr. changes anything for the summer show season schedule. Praying if anything they only have to post pone shows, but not cancel them. Something for the kids to look forward to, something to keep them busy. 
I worry how this is going to affect people, especially mental health. Hopefully we can overcome this and start getting some kind of normal in the near future.


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## Jessica84

Well it was actually kinda odd that later today, or course once once everyone was home, on a Friday, that I got a email from the California Cattlemen’s Association and basically it says that the meat supply chain is a huge essential need, a long email short basically if ANYTHING with this virus causes a hurdle for the “meat chain” to call CCA ASAP so they can contact the CDFA and governors office and get it resolved ASAP. So I’m calling early Monday morning! I’m not holding my breath but at least we might have someone in our corner. Newsom is already planning on us basically being on lockdown for 3 months. I have been good about keeping politics out of this, but we are talking about a man that supported everything our last Gov. has done and then the first week in office said “I’m just so confused why California has such high gas prices”. So I don’t think highly of his intelligence level


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## Goats Rock

Jessica, I feel badly for you. I hope it gets worked out. My son is up by LA. He works for a big co. and has "papers" to show that he has a critical job and can be out of his house to go to work! 

Stay safe, all of you!


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## Trollmor

Jessica84 said:


> Ok CarmelKitty you can go back to feeling bad for us. I am absolutely livid and this is more of a rant, but so stupid, I really dislike this state at the moment.
> So back in December we no longer we allowed to register a perfectly good semi truck because of the new carb law. Whatever not much we could do about it. Wednesday they held a online auction, to make sure they complied with the 10 people rule. Anyways we bought a new truck, it's paid for, we have $40,000 less in our account, it IS OURS! This auction is 4 hours away and thank goodness my husband has a awesome friend that flew them up. It was a fluke he decided he didn't have anything better to do so rode over with them instead of flying home because when they got to the place is shut down. The county came in and shut them down, even though it's not even a auction at this point but a place that hands paperwork and keys to their owners. If the auction was going on I totally would have understood, a equipment auction is not a essential business. We tried to explain that trucks are considered essential, this stupid governor even announced it this morning but because it's there and they are not essential we can't get it.
> So all this means, we now either have to keep paying $16 a bale for the animals, we are feeding 10 bales a day. Or we make the 6 hour trip to our place up north and bring 100 bales down at a time. So every 10 days make a 12 hour round trip. We also just got approved for a BLM lease but we don't have a truck to take them up there. So pay a ton of money to hire someone to haul the cows or pay for something we can't get cows to. If that happens and we still can't get the truck In a month we will be feeding 20-30 bales depending on how the grass holds up.
> So at this point I'm no longer taking this virus well, I'm down right livid over it all. We are screwed over a half butted attempt at a lock down.
> Ok rant over


I do not understand. Carb law - that must be CO2, right? What has that to do with any virus?

And, do you guys have any HVO over there?


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## Goatzrule

My college just got the notification that all the students need to go retrieve their belongings from their dorm rooms and we are going completely virtual. My college is a hands on tech school with vet programs, tractor programs, and meat processing. Makes me wonder how they will be able to teach cutting meats online. Its just not the same. 
Leaving campus for spring break was heartbreaking, In a way its our home. Our friends are our family and to separate without knowing when if ever we'll see each other again was heartbreaking. My heart goes out especially to the seniors who will never get their final moments. All of their goodbyes were shoved into 3 days. 
In the state of new york we are going down on almost complete lock down. It really is scary.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Goatzrule said:


> My college just got the notification that all the students need to go retrieve their belongings from their dorm rooms and we are going completely virtual. My college is a hands on tech school with vet programs, tractor programs, and meat processing. Makes me wonder how they will be able to teach cutting meats online. Its just not the same.
> Leaving campus for spring break was heartbreaking, In a way its our home. Our friends are our family and to separate without knowing when if ever we'll see each other again was heartbreaking. My heart goes out especially to the seniors who will never get their final moments. All of their goodbyes were shoved into 3 days.
> In the state of new york we are going down on almost complete lock down. It really is scary.


You mean for the rest of the year?


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## toth boer goats

What a mess.
Jessica, are you saying they want our animals(goats) to eat? Or is this just cattle?


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## Jessica84

Here is the email. It talks mostly about cattle because they are the California cattlemen association BUT ultimately it is all food. But this is not supposed to effect any part of livestock. From feeding to selling to getting them to the table.

https://calcattlemen.org/2020/03/19...KGKOnK5tibs30XL45gPM4tfn-0wLx61bQNAoOyOWBgZRI
Goats rock rumor has it the fire station is going to be handing those out as well. Which makes me wonder, what do they have planned?! Road blocks? 
Trollmor technically the carb law has nothing to do with the virus except bad timing, especially for us. But when California passed this law it means 1. Truckers in California had to can their trucks, and 2. No out of state trucks allowed in this state if their trucks are not carb compliant. So let's say Bob from Nevada comes with a load of TP but his truck is not compliant then Bob has to drop his load at the state line and Jim, with his compliant truck, has to go up and pick it up. Which IMO is absolutely stupid because there is no way these new trucks run clean enough to make up for the extra driving. So for me, we have a absolutely perfect truck that we can not use sitting in our front yard. And we have another perfect, California compliant truck sitting in a lot that we can't touch. This put a lot of businesses out because they could Not afford to replace every truck in their company so now we have less trucks getting us what we need.


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## Trollmor

Aha, "only" bad timing. How about HVO, then? 95 - 100% fossil free, can that be something?


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## toth boer goats

Thank you for the info. 
Very helpful.


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## Jessica84

Oh I’m sure before long they will force people to change again. We are kinda getting off topic and it was my rants fault. I don’t mind cleaner running vehicles, I just mind it when it’s at business and people’s who are in the agriculture businesses expense. Just let the “dirty” ones faze out. There is no equipment that will last forever.


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## Goats Rock

Our county has its first verified case of Covid 19. It was in all the counties around us, inevitable it would get here. Maybe now people will pay attention and quit acting like its a lark.


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## Damfino

I'm pretty sure it's been in your county for a while now. You just didn't realize it until they started testing.


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## CaramelKittey

Jessica84 said:


> Ok CarmelKitty you can go back to feeling bad for us. I am absolutely livid and this is more of a rant, but so stupid, I really dislike this state at the moment.
> So back in December we no longer we allowed to register a perfectly good semi truck because of the new carb law. Whatever not much we could do about it. Wednesday they held a online auction, to make sure they complied with the 10 people rule. Anyways we bought a new truck, it's paid for, we have $40,000 less in our account, it IS OURS! This auction is 4 hours away and thank goodness my husband has a awesome friend that flew them up. It was a fluke he decided he didn't have anything better to do so rode over with them instead of flying home because when they got to the place is shut down. The county came in and shut them down, even though it's not even a auction at this point but a place that hands paperwork and keys to their owners. If the auction was going on I totally would have understood, a equipment auction is not a essential business. We tried to explain that trucks are considered essential, this stupid governor even announced it this morning but because it's there and they are not essential we can't get it.
> So all this means, we now either have to keep paying $16 a bale for the animals, we are feeding 10 bales a day. Or we make the 6 hour trip to our place up north and bring 100 bales down at a time. So every 10 days make a 12 hour round trip. We also just got approved for a BLM lease but we don't have a truck to take them up there. So pay a ton of money to hire someone to haul the cows or pay for something we can't get cows to. If that happens and we still can't get the truck In a month we will be feeding 20-30 bales depending on how the grass holds up.
> So at this point I'm no longer taking this virus well, I'm down right livid over it all. We are screwed over a half butted attempt at a lock down.
> Ok rant over


That's awful! Now, we can both feel sorry for each other. Rumor has it NJ is going on lockdown. Most stores (Home Depot, Tractor Supply, Grocery Stores, and Gas Stations) are staying open. But schools, crowds, and colleges are all canceled. No gathering of more than 10 people. Only 50 people in one store at a time. It's silly.
Sounds like we both have bad governors.


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## CaramelKittey

healthyishappy said:


> That is a SUPER good definition. The only people who want socialism is the people who don't want to work. How's an economy supposed to run off people that don't want to work? That's why all those people are stuck working $7.25 an hour jobs. I can't blame them for hating it. But the only way you move up is to be smart and work super hard.


I totally agree! When the pilgrims came to America, they tried socialism and it didn't work because some people were taking advantage of the system. Obviously people would take advantage of the system if socialism were in America today. 
Just look at Venezuela. All their people couldn't get food, so they lowered food prices. A TON of people from neighboring countries profited off that by buying the food cheap and selling it in their Home Countries. 
Capitalism is an opportunity for people to work hard, research their work, make smart decisions with common sense, and have a desire to work and to gain skills and better themselves, then, they will benefit.
You said it perfectly! "The only people who want socialism is the people who don't want to work."


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

ok, Lets try to keep this thread on the Corona Virus, and how we and our family are handling it
i dont mind story time, but lets try to keep politics and such out of this, before something gets heated


----------



## HoosierShadow

I do have a political statement about corona virus.... Can I just say that I absolutely have 100% respect for how our Governor has been handling this? I mean seriously, his press conferences have been great, he is doing what he can for the people of our state. I haven't seen it, but he said the first 15 minutes of briefings he would talk with the kids who were watching and try to help them get through this too. Very awesome. 

I went to our grocery store this morning. I got there right at 7am when they were opening and there were about 15 people waiting outside, probably more at the other entrance I didn't pay attention to that one. Chatted with a few people. It just felt so strange, the distancing, the masks and gloves. When we went in, all carts were right in the entry way facing the store interior door, they had been thoroughly sanitized. Everyone made a run for the toilet paper and meat.
I went to toilet paper curious if there was any, as we still have some, but I'm getting concerned - we don't want to run out.
They had Viva brand paper towels, and the store brand small boxes of tissues, but also had the large box 4 packs on the bottom, so I grabbed one of those in case I can't find TP any time soon.
Went to get some meat, they were fully stocked on chicken this trip, but only odds/ends with beef. 
Limit of 3 packages of meat. So I got 2 packs of chicken and 1 beef. They had pretty much everything else I was looking for, fresh fruits/veggies, bread, snacks for the kids, Gatorade, water, some frozen stuff, coffee and coffee creamer. 
So hopefully we are good for a while now. I just hope the tomatoes don't go bad too quickly as I am trying to be good and stay home.
Everyone was in good spirits despite the stress. Everyone greeted each other, workers were busy, but were smiling and pleasant. Small town, but it's one of the bigger Kroger stores in the state.
it was just really surreal watching people walking around with masks/gloves though... I felt like I was in some weird foreign movie, as if it were not real or even happening here. Wish it wasn't real.

Hard part is my teenagers. My son is really, really close to his cousin and wanted to go spend the evening with him and his family in town. I felt so bad telling him he shouldn't go and should stay home. My daughter's best friend was supposed to have a birthday party at a bowling alley today, that got cancelled, then the girls wanted to do a sleep over, and I had to try and explain to her that we really have to do the social distancing thing. It's so hard on them right now 

Those of you with kids, how are they handling it? Going crazy at home yet?
I try to keep my kids busy with the goats, but the weather has been lousy. My son was on spring break this past week from college, and starts online classes Monday, and he said they will still have regular lab class (construction) from my understanding. Otherwise he works 2-3 days a week around his school schedule. Private mechanic shop/cattle farm, so hopefully he can continue to work since it's just him and his older cousin that work there.


----------



## momto6ls

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Yeah here in Oregon same type of thing.
> 
> Anyway.....Damfino I think was talking about Colorado. My daughter is going to school there. And BOY ARE THE HOSPITALS full!! I can only speak about the one she is doing clinicals at. But give this another week and I bet all the hospitals will be at capacity. They are quarantining alot of rooms.....


I'm surprised more people don't realize THIS is why everyone is "freaking out".

the estimates are that about 1/3 of the US (96 million) will get this. It is NOT like the flu. You will be able to tell the difference - this is _dry_ cough and _deep_ in the lungs before it turns to pneumonia. It is super contagious, and you spread it for days without knowing. Even people who never have symptoms can infect others. That's what makes it so different. 
_*
Most people will be fine.*_ I'm not saying you should freak out. But most of 96 million still leaves an estimated 4.8 million that may need hospitalization. We have _nowhere _near that capacity of hospital beds in the US. For example, my sister lives in a rural area. They have been told there are only 7 respirators in the whole valley... and there are more than 8 people in their 80s in that valley. Just sayin.

The closed schools and cancelled events are just to S L O W the spread so that as people contract the virus and need care they can get care.

The administration did a great job of slowing this for the US by stopping it at the border (travel bans). Look at Europe. They didn't pay any attention and now they are overwhelmed and cannot take care of any new emergencies - strokes, heart attacks, etc.

It has been said - young children bring things home. Then grandparents get it. My parents are in their 70s, and we are hoping for the best. But my mother is immuno compromised - she has a fairly rare form of cancer and is in a medical trial. Someone called that "almost dead already." Fair... but heartless.

let's just breathe, be careful, and try to put ourselves in the shoes of the medical folks, and those at risk. I'm a nurse so maybe it is a little easier for me to imagine the nightmare. 

i hope that helps people understand the "ridiculous." It does seem that way, but there are real concerns that have brought us to this place. I for one am glad that by doing so some will never understand what the big deal was. That will mean the effort was successful. :nod:


----------



## Trollmor

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> ok, Lets try to keep this thread on the Corona Virus, and how we and our family are handling it
> i dont mind story time, but lets try to keep politics and such out of this, before something gets heated


Go on in this thread?
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/pull-up-a-chair-and-come-on-in-d.159940/page-2426


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## Trollmor

momto6ls said:


> It has been said - young children bring things home. Then grandparents get it.


True.


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## goathiker

...


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## Goats Rock

Is this overthinking? Ok, so, "they" are talking about the entire country sheltering in place and only groc. stores and drug stores will be open. 14 days. So, if 2 people are in one house, supposedly, in 14 days they will know if they are going to be ill, right? But, what if say I come down with Covid19 today, now DH is exposed. He may not get it until the 13th day. So, he would have been inside for 27 days. What if there is a family of 5 people. Theoretically, they could have to be in for 70 days, if each one got sick, one at a time on the last day of the previous persons illness. 

Do they know if it's a one and done thing? Where you get it once and have immunity after that? (This sounded more logical when I was thinking it!)


----------



## NDinKY

momto6ls said:


> I'm surprised more people don't realize THIS is why everyone is "freaking out".
> 
> the estimates are that about 1/3 of the US (96 million) will get this. It is NOT like the flu. You will be able to tell the difference - this is _dry_ cough and _deep_ in the lungs before it turns to pneumonia. It is super contagious, and you spread it for days without knowing. Even people who never have symptoms can infect others. That's what makes it so different.
> 
> ...
> 
> let's just breathe, be careful, and try to put ourselves in the shoes of the medical folks, and those at risk. I'm a nurse so maybe it is a little easier for me to imagine the nightmare.
> 
> i hope that helps people understand the "ridiculous." It does seem that way, but there are real concerns that have brought us to this place. I for one am glad that by doing so some will never understand what the big deal was. That will mean the effort was successful. :nod:


The reports from respiratory therapists are terrifying. And it's not just old with comorbidities dying. A 39 yr old woman in Louisiana without any known comorbidities died from this infection.

Healthcare workers are disproportionately affected by this and tend to have more severe complications (higher innoculum perhaps?). Stay home and be safe for them. They're out there risking their own lives to help you.


----------



## NDinKY

Goats Rock said:


> Do they know if it's a one and done thing? Where you get it once and have immunity after that? (This sounded more logical when I was thinking it!)


That is the prevailing thought. There were some rumors about reinfection but those were not found to be true. We need people to gain immunity to this. We need a vaccine. We need antibody titers to check immunity. If someone had this in January and now has immunity, they could go back to work, help others, etc without fear of getting sick or spreading infection.


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## Kristendanae

We have actually discussed homeschooling both kids now. The state keeps changing the back to school date and with new cases everyday I don't see schools returning this school year. Both of my kids are way ahead of grade level with both math and reading so I feel like homeschool would give them a chance to explore other interest they wouldn't get a chance to do in public school. But, I guess it would be their decision. They are both social butterflies so they might not want to.
Social distancing has been hard for me. I'm an introvert and hate crowds and shop at 6 am on Sunday morning for groceries. The parking lot at kroger was 3/4 full last Saturday at 7! It's insane! Now there is a limit on meat which means I'll have to go to multiple stores. I just don't see how this is helping with keeping germs to a minimum. I can't find flour or potatos. I use a lot of both!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

HoosierShadow said:


> Those of you with kids, how are they handling it? Going crazy at home yet?


My son and Husband go fishing, because we have a lake not too far from here. They dont come in contact with anybody, so that's keeping them busy, and we get fresh fish, so that's a bonus!

my daughter on the other hand in the main caretaker of the goats. She does everything other than buy them the stuff lol! When I give advice on here, I ask her first lol! But anyways, she has ADHD, and gets hyper, and it was raining yesterday so she couldn't go outside, so she knitted for a while, got some birthday presents done for her friends, cleaned her room without me asking her to, then she turned on some music and was dancing and hyper LOL (It is a funny hyper, and all she does is laugh) . I think she is going a bit stir crazy, but today is supposed to be a nice day, so she can spend it outside and get her energy out.


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## jschies

I just went to the local Walmart and they no longer have an area on the shelves for toilet paper. They put camping equipment and garbage cans where it used to be. An employee said that it will now be in between the aisles when they have it. This is just unbelievably weird!


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## healthyishappy

CaramelKittey said:


> That's awful! Now, we can both feel sorry for each other. Rumor has it NJ is going on lockdown. Most stores (Home Depot, Tractor Supply, Grocery Stores, and Gas Stations) are staying open. But schools, crowds, and colleges are all canceled. No gathering of more than 10 people. Only 50 people in one store at a time. It's silly.
> Sounds like we both have bad governors.


Oh well, Utah will be next. We already can't have over ten people in a room. So i'm thinking..... "which of my family do we have to kick outside when they come for family dinner today...?"

Cause that's going to happen.


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## healthyishappy

CaramelKittey said:


> I totally agree! When the pilgrims came to America, they tried socialism and it didn't work because some people were taking advantage of the system. Obviously people would take advantage of the system if socialism were in America today.
> Just look at Venezuela. All their people couldn't get food, so they lowered food prices. A TON of people from neighboring countries profited off that by buying the food cheap and selling it in their Home Countries.
> Capitalism is an opportunity for people to work hard, research their work, make smart decisions with common sense, and have a desire to work and to gain skills and better themselves, then, they will benefit.
> You said it perfectly! "The only people who want socialism is the people who don't want to work."


Well said. 
Yup. I remember reading about the piligrims and what happened. Interesting story...
An economy cannot work if people don't work. Period. IMO socialism is just a new and nicer name for communism. 
Interesting story.... 
"
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little &#8230;

The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder to succeed the greater the reward but when a government takes all the reward away; no one will try or succeed."

I just love that.


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## Damfino

momto6ls said:


> I'm surprised more people don't realize THIS is why everyone is "freaking out".
> 
> the estimates are that about 1/3 of the US (96 million) will get this. It is NOT like the flu. You will be able to tell the difference - this is _dry_ cough and _deep_ in the lungs before it turns to pneumonia. It is super contagious, and you spread it for days without knowing. Even people who never have symptoms can infect others. That's what makes it so different.


Freaking out is not the right response. The fear stated one week ago that Colorado hospitals would be overwhelmed in a week did not materialize. We're ok. The symptoms you describe are EXACTLY what my husband and I and a lot of other folks experienced back in Jan/Feb. We were calling it a "weird flu" because there was no sore throat, no runny nose or sinus congestion, no nausea, but a dry cough deep in the chest. Mine was gone in a few days while my husband's cough lasted about 3 weeks. We had exhaustion and shortness of breath. I did not take our temperature but the extreme chills make me sure we had a pretty good fever. I called it "flu" because it wasn't a cold, but if it was flu it was a weird one (and maybe the nicest because there was no vomiting!). Either the flu vaccine everyone got last fall was utterly worthless, or else we had something that wasn't the flu. I believe the reason we're seeing a rise in COVID-19 cases now is because we started looking for it and getting a few tests out.

At this point I don't doubt that there are far more people who have already had COVID-19 and recovered than there are people who have been tested. People have died from it but since there were no tests it was chalked up to "seasonal flu". My sister-in-law's aunt passed away over the winter from "pneumonia" but was negative for the flu virus. She was a heavy smoker with the consequent related respiratory problems and a lot of other health issues. She got sick very suddenly and died from pneumonia within a couple of days. Did COVID-19 kill her? It's not unreasonable to think so. Would she also have likely died from seasonal flu if she'd gotten it? Probably.

As for people spreading it for days or weeks, I don't think that is a very realistic view of this pathogen. You might _technically_ be able to, but it is droplet based, so if you aren't coughing and sneezing then it's not leaving your body in any significant amount. The headline, _"YOU CAN SPREAD THIS TO HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN SHOW SYMPTOMS!!!"_ is sensationalist clickbait. If the media creates a train wreck that no one can look away from, they win. Is there sense in washing hands and avoiding people when you are ill? Yes. But there is no sense in creating blind panic and paranoia about every stranger we come in contact with. If they're not coughing and sneezing on you or living in the same household, they're probably not going to give it to you even if they have it.



> But my mother is immuno compromised - she has a fairly rare form of cancer and is in a medical trial. Someone called that "almost dead already." Fair... but heartless.


I don't think it's heartless to be realistic. My dad is in the same boat. Any virus could put him under. Is it somehow worse if he dies from this novel pathogen than if he dies of one of the more pedestrian coronaviruses, rhinoviruses, or influenza? We're all avoiding my dad when we are sick, but if he gets sick anyway we're not going to blame anyone for giving it to him. Pathogens are opportunistic in nature and in some ways are nature's mercy killers of people who are on the brink. Can they sometimes kill healthy people? Of course, but this is rare and I'm tired of headlines urging us to think that these unusual outliers are normal. We watched in horror last year as my 94-year-old grandfather died very slowly of Parkinson's disease. There was no mitigating pathogen to put him out of his misery sooner and it was torturous.

^ And I sincerely hope that no one takes this last paragraph the wrong way.


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## Damfino

I'd also like to know why everyone wants to compare the U.S. to Italy. Why Italy? We have very little in common with that country. Why not compare ourselves to the UK or Germany? They are more culturally and demographically similar to Americans than Italy. It seems to me that we are comparing ourselves to the most dramatic example rather than the most accurate one. I don't believe for one minute that Italy is "Ten days ahead of us," which is what I've been hearing for the last ten days. Ten days later we are nothing like Italy was ten days ago. 

What reason do we have to believe that this disease hit Italy before it hit us? I'm pretty sure it probably hit most westernized parts of the globe at about the same time and in similar numbers since every westernized country does so much trade with China. But why compare to Italy? Italy has one of the oldest populations on the planet and can't really be compared demographically to the much younger U.S. It also has six times higher population density, almost twice as many smokers, and there are major cultural differences that can't be ignored. For example, many Italians live in multi-generational homes while in the U.S. older folks often live in their own separate retirement communities. Italians also like to hug and kiss everyone they greet. This is absolutely NOT done in the U.S. where social distancing is already the norm in most situations, particularly among strangers. Comparing ourselves to Italy is apples and oranges so why is the media doing it if not for dramatic effect?


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## healthyishappy

Damfino said:


> We were calling it a "weird flu" because there was no sore throat, no runny nose or sinus congestion, no nausea, but a dry cough deep in the chest. Mine was gone in a few days while my husband's cough lasted about 3 weeks. We had exhaustion and shortness of breath. I did not take our temperature but the extreme chills make me sure we had a pretty good fever. I called it "flu" because it wasn't a cold, but if it was flu it was a weird one (and maybe the nicest because there was no vomiting!)


I had the same!


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## Jessica84

Heck no I’m not going crazy with kids home lol they are my free labor and I have them 24/7 now LMBO! Seriously I, for the most part, like it when my kids are home. No more stopping chores right after I get started to take them to school, no watching the clock and stopping in the middle of something to pick them up. The bickering just gets them more chores, and I have only threatened them I would put them up for adoption twice so it’s going really well! 
I do wish the school would start sending out actual work that can be graded and go for a grade. I’m not sure if they don’t want the world to know that parents can in fact teach their kids or what the deal is. Just send work home so we can send it back and grade it. I do think it comes down to money though. Every day a child goes to school the school gets money for it. I’m going to be over and beyond annoyed if they loose their summer vacation and have to go to school, which is where it’s headed IF this is all over by then. Summer is my busy time, and I’m basically a single mother then, and I can not take them to a from school during the summer. 
Toth that is the root of the whole issue! We have fed off each other’s panic. We have the ones that stocked for the end of the world, and then we have the ones that see the empty grocery store and it’s not that they think the virus is going to kill them like the first group, they just worry about not finding food. So then they go nuts buying things. 
The limiting the amount of food I kinda have mixed feelings about that. So like right now it’s only 2 packages of meat. So that will last my family 1 or 2 nights depending on how big the packages are. If I was sick and just didn’t really know it yet, the other day o thought I was sick but it was allergies, I’m not letting my family go hungry. So I go to the store and buy my meat, infect the 10 people there. The next day I need to go bask and infect 10 more people. There really is no right or wrong solution here because you have the greedy people stocking 10 freezers. 
And then we have the people who see someone with a heaping basket full and basically want to start sending death threats to them over it. I see it on my local FB page EVERY DAY! But that person would be me. Not that I’m freaking out but because that’s how I shop. I shop for myself, my husband, 2 kids and my parents. That’s 6 people. So the couple with no kids sees that as someone buying up everything because they could. I don’t like shopping, it’s a all day thing, so I have to donate a whole day to shopping. I can’t go every day or every other day. People sure are getting judgmental during this all and it’s annoying


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## Kristendanae

healthyishappy said:


> I had the same!


My stepdad swears he had it in mid January. He is in his mid 50s. He said it was like the flu but different. I think they tested him for the flu and he didn't have it. So who knows?!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

I think it’s hard to know if something is “novel.” But an important note is that we all get sick, we all die, right now we are hearing about it more because it’s being reported, and so it’s causing more fear. But yeah, we’ve probably all had coronaviruses, we’ve probably all had the flu, and this virus may have been doing it’s dirty work a long time before it was “discovered.” Perhaps the sudden discovery of it was just used to draw upon more fear. Who knows. I sure don’t. So I don’t want to say I’m educated or hold my opinion above anyone else’s. We can only go by our own views and just hope everybody stays healthy from the numerous viruses that circulate in humans.


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## jschies

Jessica, in my district we were told to only give about 90 minutes of work a day and nothing new--all review. I think the reason for that is to not add stress to parents' lives. I have already had some parents panicking because they couldn't figure something out. We start giving real assignments tomorrow. Until then we have put up educational games and programs for the students to work on.


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## Moers kiko boars

According to the CDC the carona 19 is a NEW VIrus. Started in China. Was not in USA before it started. Lets get the facts straight and stop the panic.
We do not know alot about the ability of the virus to mutate and spread. It can live on surfaces for up to 8 hours. It can be spread through touch and breath. And body fluids through coughing, sneezing. They do have tests kits being generated and sent to hospitals, clinics, Drs, and designated testing areas.
Ages previously stated were incorrect. We are seeing youth getting this virus
As any virus it does mutate as it goes through populations. Thats why flu vaccines dont work on all "strains" of flu.
If you want to help..
Wash your hands, wipe off ALL areas you touch. Stay 6 to 8 ft from another human being. Stay at home. Dont go to a Emergency Room..call the Dr or Hospital, they will inform you where to go for a Corona 19 Test if you tell them them your symptoms..and they match the requirement for the test.
Toilet paper... is not necessary for this virus. Its mainly upper respiratory..lungs, throat, sinuses. Blood stream.
So please..read the CDC or WHO information and alot of the questions will be answered.
Yes Jessica84...some areas have taken the requirements a little too far. There is no reason the person behind the glass, cant glove up,wear a mask and hand you papers & keys. Just like going to the grocery store. Sometimes we have to go over that Dept head..and allert the authorities to get this changed.


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## healthyishappy

Moers kiko boars said:


> Lets get the facts straight and stop the panic.


Nobody's panicking on here I don't think. 
How can we get the facts if we don't know that the sources we are getting them from are sincere in their approach to help? Like the CDC. I'm not saying they aren't telling the truth but we don't know...


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## NDinKY

Damfino said:


> I'd also like to know why everyone wants to compare the U.S. to Italy. Why Italy? We have very little in common with that country. Why not compare ourselves to the UK or Germany? They are more culturally and demographically similar to Americans than Italy. It seems to me that we are comparing ourselves to the most dramatic example rather than the most accurate one. I don't believe for one minute that Italy is "Ten days ahead of us," which is what I've been hearing for the last ten days. Ten days later we are nothing like Italy was ten days ago.
> 
> What reason do we have to believe that this disease hit Italy before it hit us? I'm pretty sure it probably hit most westernized parts of the globe at about the same time and in similar numbers since every westernized country does so much trade with China. But why compare to Italy? Italy has one of the oldest populations on the planet and can't really be compared demographically to the much younger U.S. It also has six times higher population density, almost twice as many smokers, and there are major cultural differences that can't be ignored. For example, many Italians live in multi-generational homes while in the U.S. older folks often live in their own separate retirement communities. Italians also like to hug and kiss everyone they greet. This is absolutely NOT done in the U.S. where social distancing is already the norm in most situations, particularly among strangers. Comparing ourselves to Italy is apples and oranges so why is the media doing it if not for dramatic effect?


Italy is glimpse at our future should we not take drastic measures and stay home. Our numbers track right on par with Italy, about 10 or so days behind when adjusted cases per 100,000 population. Yes they have more multigenerational households and have more physical contact, but the numbers don't lie. Italy had 793 people die in a 24 hour period from COVID-19. That's a lot of dead people. What we're seeing here in the US is younger people requiring hospitalization. Younger people dying. Children are more affected than previously thought.

For everyone who has had "weird flu" that wasn't flu, I hope you had it and are now immune. We know based on genetics of viral samples, there was a 6 week period in Washington state where the virus was being transmitted and no one knew (same virus genetically between cases and patients had no contact with each other.

The cases are growing logarithmically. Yes we're testing more, but mostly hospitalized patients. This virus is changing the world.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

my daughter found this awesome video. If you have the time, i believe this is fascinating!


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> ^ And I sincerely hope that no one takes this last paragraph the wrong way.


Not me!Last spring, my mother-in-law who is 95 with dementia had two heart attacks and had stents put in her heart. We were livid, she was supposed to have comfort care only. We were out of town when this went down and she had been very secretive about her plans. And, due to dementia; did not remember her plans.
Now it has been dropped solely in our laps. We had to find her a *no kill shelter.* ( I call it that as she had absolutely 0 quality of life.) They have assured us how careful they have been and I want to say, "It would be the best thing for her."


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## luvmyherd

Our son is begging us to come up to his place. We are starting to think about taking him up on it.
I am going crazy in this house. And up there there are trails and mountains to hike. Plus plenty o wild game if it comes to that.


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## Damfino

NDinKY said:


> Italy is glimpse at our future should we not take drastic measures and stay home. Our numbers track right on par with Italy, about 10 or so days behind when adjusted cases per 100,000 population.


Yeah but why is _Italy_ a glimpse at our future and not say, Germany or the UK? If we're going to compare totally different cultural types, why not compare ourselves to Japan? From the numbers I'm seeing, the numbers of cases in the U.S. aren't tracking anything like the numbers in Italy. There's not even a comparison. If we were, we should right now be in the midst of the crisis Italy was experiencing 10 days ago, which was already severe then. We didn't start locking everything down until a week ago, which means the hospitals should currently be flooded out the door with cases that were contracted before the lockdown and are now expressing themselves. If we're so much like Italy, why is that not happening? Curious minds want to know!



> We know based on genetics of viral samples, there was a 6 week period in Washington state where the virus was being transmitted and no one knew (same virus genetically between cases and patients had no contact with each other.


Now this I find very interesting! When was this 6-week period? If the patients had no contact with each other then it means the virus was spreading between loads of unsuspecting other carriers--people who likely believed they had any other cold or flu and carried on as usual. During this six weeks, were hospitals flooded with an abnormally high number of patients? If not, then I think it is a very good indication that this virus is no more deadly than any other cold/flu and, like H1N1, will be rolled into the normal cold/flu season viruses we deal with every year.

There is one change that I sincerely hope can come out of all this: Better sick leave for school kids. I talk to people every year who keep sending their kids to school when sick because they can't miss more than a certain number of days without having to attend summer school. This is completely wrong. People should not have to send sick kids to school. If kids can complete their assignments at home and demonstrate that they've done the work and learned the material, there is no reason for them to be present in class just to fill the attendance days on a chart. I hope this makes people realize that forcing social interaction on sick people is extremely unwise and completely unnecessary.


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## Sfgwife

Somethin that has just bugged me the last few days.... people believing the hoopla of sewing the masks for hospitals. I totally get the whole want to help thing. I do. A local quilt shop is all in on this and ladies are very very snarky when you say anything against them on the matter. We have a rn dil whom i have BEGGED to stay home... she is six months pregnant with their first child a d works in an er. ;(. Her work is trying to work on getting her to a nonpatient tending or being around them job and she has not worked since thurs. So pray and pray hard they find different temp positions for people like this. So i told her what was goin on and asked should i make her some. She laughed and said uhhh no absolutely no mom. The handmade masks will not work. Which is what i figured but i wanted my experts opinion. A homemade mask does not have a “filtration” system like those masks do so pretty much people doing this they are just breeding more germs with the gunk on the faces, humidity inside the mask from breath and all the good stuff. They are adding in coffee filters to the masks now. Oye! I posted what dil said to me and was told by numerous people that i was a liar and just an in general nasty human that i did not want to help. Oh ohhhhhhk then. Yes hospital personnel are being asked to use a mask up to five times if possible but if that mask gets anything on it or you are in a room with a suspect case out it goes. Today i saw several posts from legitimate cdc and type places about the homemade masks not working for this.... so i posted legit true places to believe.... yup you got it...... i got bashed and told i was still nasty and lying and not wanting to help. I am just like this is unbelievable that you refuse to see facts people.


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## NDinKY

Germany and UK are tracking right along with us. We've outnumbered them on cases so far, however with UK doing nothing they're about to see sharp growth in cases/hospitalization.

Exponential growth starts very slowly, then seems to explode overnight. Many people aren't grasping this. If your doubling time is 5 days, and you're at 30,000 cases at Day 0, on day 5 you have 60,000 cases, Day 10 you have 100,000 cases, day 15 you have 200,000 cases, and 20 days later you're at 400,000 cases. If 20% of those 400,000 (80,000 people) require hospitalization, and 5% (20,000) need critical care level treatment, you can see the problem. And in another 5 days (Day 25) you have 800,000 cases with 160,000 needing hospitalization and 40,000 needing critical care. Day 30 you have 1.6 million cases. 320,000 need hospitalization. 80,000 need ICU.

I couldn't find the graphic I saw earlier today but here are some from a few days ago.


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## Damfino

I was going to try to explain why I think those graphs are deceiving but then I wondered if others had already done the work. They have: 
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...text/507-2a93506b-1d8d-4424-a170-a034c9f3dc2c

Other than our slowness in rolling out tests, I don't think the U.S. or any other westernized country is "tracking behind" any other. This virus hit every country that does business with China before China even knew they had it. It probably hit us all about the same time. No country is "tracking behind" but all are tracking differently according to factors like population density, average age of population, cultural norms, prevalence of smoking, average overall health, climate, etc. Australia was one of the first countries that I read about that was reporting this disease but we haven't heard much about them in the news since then. Why not? Why are we not all tracking behind Australia? Why is it worse in Italy, Spain, and France but not so much the other European countries right next to them? There are a lot of factors at play besides number of days and I honestly don't think we're ever going to look anything remotely like Italy no matter how this plays out because we are simply too dissimilar.


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## NDinKY

I hope you’re right and we look nothing like Italy. We’re about to find out in a week or so.


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## Damfino

Staying on track... I read yesterday that in the UK people strip-mined all the eggs, then panicked at the empty shelves and started panic-buying chickens. Of all the dumb things to do! Some farmers are no longer selling chickens to anyone they don't already know. I'm all in favor of more people becoming involved in small-time agriculture, but panic-buying livestock when you have no idea what you are doing will not end well for you or the animals. I imagine there will be problems a few months down the road when these folks start letting their unwanted chickens loose in the countryside or dumping them on people's farms. If this happens it will be a huge headache for farmers when dumped chickens start bringing diseases into their flocks.

This is something we'll have to watch for in the goat world too. I can see people scrambling to buy goats as a way to secure a milk supply for themselves during times of crisis without having any clue how to actually feed, house, and care for a dairy goat. There is a sharp learning curve, and if people aren't taking the time to educate themselves before diving into it, the animals will be the ones to suffer for it.


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## NDinKY

A couple of my coworkers have joked that they wish they’d had chickens. I’m just giving them eggs instead since we have 21 laying hens right now and can’t keep up with all the eggs. Hopefully the animal buying doesn’t happen in the US. I have a couple does who will be in milk that I’m considering selling this summer. I’ll have to really screen buyers thoroughly.


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## Damfino

Went to the grocery store today and it was PACKED! Two delivery trucks had just arrived so most items were stocked except toilet paper and kleenexes. The store seemed full of strangers and when I spoke to one of the clerks and she said a lot of folks are coming down here from Pueblo. Seriously?? We are a small community and our grocery store can't possibly supply the locals AND the out-of-towners. I feel sorry for the folks working there. I saw an old fellow in the toilet paper aisle who was asking when the next shipment would come in. He looked awfully dejected. I didn't know him, but he's from my own town of Rye so I told him if he needed to he could come over and get some TP from me to tide him over. I have plenty. He didn't end up coming so maybe there were a few rolls on the delivery truck.

I still can't stop laughing about this "King of the Hill" Y2K episode: 



Who'd have thought that 20 years later people would still be panicking over toilet paper!


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## CaramelKittey

So..NJ is starting to consider pushing school back to April 20th. Some schools have already done so. What about everybody in other states? How long are your schools closing?


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## goathiker

Our schools are already closed until 04-20 and we are in mandatory lockdown as of 10:00 this morning. Being caught out on unofficial errands is a class C misdemeanor.


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> Our schools are already closed until 04-20 and we are in mandatory lockdown as of 10:00 this morning. Being caught out on unofficial errands is a class C misteminer.


Wow! That makes the virus sound like the Black Plague...and it's nothing like it.
I thought no state could ever be crazier than NJ with the curfews. Technically, the curfews in NJ are not mandatory but recommended. 
I still don't see a reason for them at all but I don't like hearing cars on the street at night (I understand it's necessary sometimes) anyway so I can't complain.


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## goathiker

It's all in how you spin it. It's really just that they are enforcing what we had already been asked to do voluntarily, social distancing. 
It's the people's own fault, they certainly didn't have to flock to the beach in record numbers over the weekend. 
It really doesn't change anything for those of us who were already being conscientious.


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## goathiker

If this thread is to stay open it must stay on topic now. 
The subject is how are you handling coronavirus? 
State regulations fine. Other discussions belong elsewhere.


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## Goats Rock

Today is day one of Ohio's everyone is supposed to stay home. But, they have so many exceptions, that it is going to defeat the whole purpose of people trying to slow this virus down. 

I sure hope everyone on TGS stays ok!


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## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> ... if people aren't taking the time to educate themselves before diving into it, the animals will be the ones to suffer for it.


Very true. Those who do, will probably show up here, those who don't might have to answer to the Lord after they die. "What have you done to my smallest brothers and sisters?"


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## Trollmor

healthyishappy said:


> Why not make a pm then and include who you want to debate with. I'd love to hear opinions from socialist based people. Cause I don't understand why people would choose it.


Is this a good thread for that?
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/pull-up-a-chair-and-come-on-in-d.159940/page-2427


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## elvis&oliver

Whew lots of different opinions here. staying on topic...

I bought extra food for all my animals first then some for us in our home. Good time to see we can actually make bread, snacks and some people are making their own sanitizers. This is definitely a learning experience in many many ways. We have had serious illness in our families in the past which has caused me to have the discussion about animal care if anything ever happened so that’s already been covered. It has helped me be more mindful to people and send a quick text that I’m thinking about them, have a good day, hello there, that kind of thing. I’ve never been one to panic and I didn’t with all of this but I am cautious and taking things seriously and doing my part on not being around people etc. 
saying a prayer for our nation as a whole and hoping things are under control sooner then later. Taking care of my animals and family the best that I can.
Hmmm I should write family first then animals! 
That’s all I personally can do during this time of the virus pandemic. 
Much love to everyone


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Trollmor said:


> Is this a good thread for that?
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/pull-up-a-chair-and-come-on-in-d.159940/page-2427


i dont think so. That is a homesteaders chat thread. if yall MUST talk about it, a PM is the best way to go

Yesterday, was our "once a week run to town" and we went to the feed store to get some more feed and plants to start our garden. One of my daughters softball coaches pulled in and offered my husband a handshake, as a joke, and my husband just put up his elbow and they bumped elbows!:clever::heehee:

Do yalls TSC have 6 ft markers in the checkout line? I was impressed our small town is taking action, and the feed store has hand sanitizer and clorox wipes at the front, and make you wipe of the credit card thing with a wipe.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Our state (NJ) is being surprisingly lenient with the list of things we are or aren’t allowed to do. There’s a bunch of rumored information going around, but if you read the exact executive order put out, not much has changed except hours and retail stores closing.


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> It's all in how you spin it. It's really just that they are enforcing what we had already been asked to do voluntarily, social distancing.
> It's the people's own fault, they certainly didn't have to flock to the beach in record numbers over the weekend.
> It really doesn't change anything for those of us who were already being conscientious.


But are they _actually_ enforcing? Seems to me there is no possible way for the government to enforce any of these rules so if you think about it, it's all just a big show. If people want to flock to the beach, they WILL flock to the beach and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Quite honestly, I'd rather see people crowding together outdoors than in shopping centers where germs are more likely to linger on surfaces and where the ventilation is relatively poor compared to outside. Fresh air, sunlight, and exercise are good for people and bad for viruses.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Maybe everyone who flocked to the beach just knew how healthy the sun and ocean air is!! LOL!


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## HoosierShadow

CaramelKittey said:


> So..NJ is starting to consider pushing school back to April 20th. Some schools have already done so. What about everybody in other states? How long are your schools closing?


Our Governor recommended schools stay closed until 4-20, so our county called off until then. I know in Indiana school is out until May 1st. 
My son is in college, and is doing online work (Construction), however, there are glitches and it is more 'chatting/talking' online than actual work, so no class today. He said next week they will do physical lab class, which is good, because well.. your not going to learn how to do construction sitting behind a screen. They just need to practice distancing and good sanitization.
My daughter is doing all her work on her school issues Chromebook, talking with teachers and that seems to be going well. She is in 7th grade.

I was looking on line randomly last night for toilet paper specifically - out of curiosity and saw Amazon, Walmart, Dollar General were all sold out. I looked on ebay and found some humorous ads which I am sure Ebay will eventually crack down on. One was for an alternate to toilet paper - dried corn cob.  Another for 1 single sheet of toilet paper. 
In all seriousness, we should be good on that stuff for a little while longer, but it does kind of make me nervous for when I need to get more. If any comes up on Amazon or Walmart, I may end up ordering some. My niece works at a small grocery store in town, so I may even have my son check with her and see when is the best time to try and get some. Who would have ever thought we'd have to worry about finding.... toilet paper?

We have a very busy restaurant next door, we're out in the country, but it attracts people from all over the country. There is no dine in but people can do carry out, and there are normal amount of employee cars in their lot, so that is a good thing. I feel horrible for the people who have lost their jobs temporarily and permanently over this. I feel very blessed that my husband's job is not affected. My husband's nephew told my son yesterday that the farm his Dad works for gave out a letter for employment, so I think the places around here are anticipating a shelter in place order soon.

Still no confirmed cases in our county that I know of, but several in the county east of us (Lexington, KY), north of there, and north and west of us. It's only a matter of time before they announce any in our county which will certainly make people panic.

Just hanging out at home... with the goats... and you guys & those on facebook. Trying to keep my sanity.


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## toth boer goats

Had to clean up a bunch of political talk. :ahh:

Please everyone, remember the rules, politics are not allowed, they can get heated and out of control so quickly.
Keep on topic please.
I hate to lock this thread, but will be forced to, if it continues.

There is nothing wrong with privately messaging one another about things, that is what it is for.
But please, do not get out of control there either. 
Anyone who gets out of hand in private messages and offends someone, please alert us and we will take care of that member accordingly.

Thanks for understanding.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> There is nothing wrong with privately messaging one another


So, how do we find one another? Anyone willing to PM to me?


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

HoosierShadow said:


> My daughter is doing all her work on her school issues Chromebook, talking with teachers and that seems to be going well. She is in 7th grade.


LOL! Mine's in 7th too! She got her stuff yesterday and still hasn't started it! They have a little "class meeting" at 5:00 when the principle will sit down and talk with them, to kinda ease their worries, and get them pointed in the right direction. 
Now if you will excuse, me, I have to go tell her to start her work!:heehee:


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## CaramelKittey

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> LOL! Mine's in 7th too! She got her stuff yesterday and still hasn't started it! They have a little "class meeting" at 5:00 when the principle will sit down and talk with them, to kinda ease their worries, and get them pointed in the right direction.
> Now if you will excuse, me, I have to go tell her to start her work!:heehee:


:heehee::haha:
I'm glad the principle is helping the kids avoid panic!


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## luvmyherd

Everything pretty much the same here. I do feel like I want to scream from time to time.
Ventured out at 5:30AM for Walmart's *senior* hours. Was able to get enough to not have to go out for another few weeks.







They had it in the back and were passing out one TP one Paper Towel per customer.







My irises do not seem to realize anything is amiss and have gone right on blooming.


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## luvmyherd

This is not a joke. One of my son's does kidded today and they are naming her Corona!!


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> Everything pretty much the same here. I do feel like I want to scream from time to time.
> Ventured out at 5:30AM for Walmart's *senior* hours. Was able to get enough to not have to go out for another few weeks.
> View attachment 176657
> They had it in the back and were passing out one TP one Paper Towel per customer.


If they were only handing out one package of TP and one package of paper towels per customer, how did you end up with all those bags of paper towels?? (The world wants to know your secret--perhaps you should patent it.)


----------



## Sfgwife

NDinKY said:


> A couple of my coworkers have joked that they wish they'd had chickens. I'm just giving them eggs instead since we have 21 laying hens right now and can't keep up with all the eggs. Hopefully the animal buying doesn't happen in the US. I have a couple does who will be in milk that I'm considering selling this summer. I'll have to really screen buyers thoroughly.


I have seen a LOT of people lookin for layin hens right now too! Pigs and calves as well. I think they do not understand how long it takes to grow out pigs and cattle though lol. And people that normally won't buy my eggs at $3 a dozen are callin me and comin to buy eggs. They are asking to buy meat as well.

We were not doing meat birds this spring because we have plenty of rabbit and chicken in the freezer to get us til fall. But today after i had five calls for chicken paul told me to order meat chicks to grow out. They will be ready in five to six weeks once they get here in a lil over a week since they are cornish crosses. But i already have fifteen sold when they are ready. I did tell this person (we know them well already) that i wanted half the money in deposit and if they backed out because they could get their meat from the grocery they were not gettin it back. If the rest do not sell it is no biggie for us as we have freezer space. So it just saves us from a fall batch.

It is worrysome though. People buying livestock and have done zero research for shelters, care and food needs for these animals.


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## Sfgwife

goathiker said:


> Our schools are already closed until 04-20 and we are in mandatory lockdown as of 10:00 this morning. Being caught out on unofficial errands is a class C misdemeanor.


There are rumors that NC is gonna do this in the next few days. So far a lot of nonessential places are closed. Food is take out only.


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## HoosierShadow

Nice score luvmyherd! I'm glad you won't have to go out any time soon! A few weeks ago, I told my husband instead of buying 3 of the little cheap 4 packs of toilet paper that we normally get, let's get the 12 pack of double rolls. That truly saved us, but now I wish I had bought 2-3 of them since at the time there was no shortages or limits, geez. I did go back and pick up 2 6 packs after the chaos started. I think my kids have 3 or 4 double rolls in their bathroom, and I have 4 or 5, then a 6 pack and a cheap/little 4 pack. So we are okay. But, I worry about running out, so I'll be randomly on the hunt for a couple of packages. If all fails I can possibly order on Amazon from Whole foods, but 2 6 packs with delivery would be like $20, ugh. I'm so cheap...that's crazy lol. If I have to I'll go that route...

My big worry right now is my uncle in Indiana. He mentioned having trouble finding stuff, so I've asked him what he needs and am hoping I might be able to help him, though he is 3 1/2 hours away, so I'd have to send it to him. I wish I knew when the best day/time was to go to the store to look for toilet paper. My niece works at Save a Lot so I may ask her what is the best time to come look for toilet paper and hope for the best. My uncle is older, single, has some health issues (not respiratory thankfully) and I worry about him going out. It doesn't help that he doesn't live in the best area.


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## Steampunked

I'm lucky in that I can work from home full time. Er, however, my kid's school has sent her home for me to teach full time as well. My work involves a lot of meetings (held through computer) so I can't really spread it out. I'm lucky to be employed when so many friends are losing their jobs. But juggling the mini farm, the job, and teaching is already getting stressful, and my kid's already bored.


----------



## Trollmor

luvmyherd said:


> This is not a joke. One of my son's does kidded today and they are naming her Corona!!


Poor little goat ...


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## Damfino

HoosierShadow said:


> A few weeks ago, I told my husband instead of buying 3 of the little cheap 4 packs of toilet paper that we normally get, let's get the 12 pack of double rolls. That truly saved us, but now I wish I had bought 2-3 of them since at the time there was no shortages or limits, geez. I did go back and pick up 2 6 packs after the chaos started. I think my kids have 3 or 4 double rolls in their bathroom, and I have 4 or 5, then a 6 pack and a cheap/little 4 pack. So we are okay. But, I worry about running out...


With that many rolls on hand you should be good for quite a while... there's nothing wrong with the supply chain so I should think there will be plenty of paper products back on shelves before too long.



Steampunked said:


> But juggling the mini farm, the job, and teaching is already getting stressful, and my kid's already bored.


I guess it's a good time to teach the kids how to entertain themselves. I was homeschooled and grew up rural but I never lacked for things to do. If anyone in our household ever complained about boredom, my dad immediately trotted out a list of chores we could be doing (usually it involved cutting and stacking firewood) so we were never bored!  Are your kids old enough to take over a portion of your farm chores or do maintenance and repairs around your home? I remember wielding a pickaxe when I was about seven years old to dig a shallow trench around the borders of our (rather long) driveway. Then my younger brothers and I collected rocks--grapefruit size and bigger--to drop in the trench and create a driveway border. It took a couple of summers to complete but we got it done and that rock border is still there more than 30 years later. A more fun thing your kids could do is to each pick an animal to train and then put on a circus show in a few weeks. Training animals was my favorite thing to do as a kid and I never grew out of it. I started out training dogs and horses. I still like to train horses but now I train goats instead of dogs.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> This is not a joke. One of my son's does kidded today and they are naming her Corona!!


That's too cute!


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## Trollmor

Here, my closest family go on as we begun: The food we have stored will last us for about another 6 weeks, and we limit our out-going to an absolute minimum - except for forest walks with the dog!


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## Oliveoil

Lol, we won't have any worries about TP here. I have a large family, but I still have A LOT of leftover TP from teepeeing during Homecoming under my bed. So, no fear of a shortage here!


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## Damfino

Oxford finally did a study about the exact thing I've been thinking--that the models being used to scare everyone are perhaps wildly inaccurate because this virus has likely been circulating longer than anyone is acknowledging. 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/oxford-study-suggests-millions-people-221100162.html

Anecdotally, it seems like an awful lot of people with ILI (Influenza Like Illness) have tested negative for flu this year and until recently doctors shrugged them off as "just some bug" and sent patients home to wait it out.


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## CaramelKittey

That's super interesting @Damfino !
:wow:
Also, I have a question anybody can feel free to answer. 
Coronavirus is not a bacterial infection, right? So what good do anti-bacterial wipes do? :what:
I understand wiping down tables and doorknobs is a good practice so there isn't anything wrong with it other than the mass-buying of wipes adds to panic. 
I'm not great at science (I'm AWFUL at science. ) so I could be totally wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

CaramelKittey said:


> Coronavirus is not a bacterial infection, right? So what good do anti-bacterial wipes do?


My daughter got a packet from her science teacher that actually had that in it!
It said
"Hand sanitizers and anti bactera wipes work because the alcohol in it disrupts the outer membrane layer of a virus"


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## Damfino

I don't know much about anti-bacterial wipes except that many contain alcohol or some form of chlorine, which also kill most viruses in addition to most bacterias. As for anti-bacterial hand soap, I've read that it is no different from any other kind of hand soap--ALL of them are "anti-bacterial" in that, by lathering, they help force bacteria out of the cracks and fissures in your skin. The "anti-bacterial" claims are not really valid because there is nothing in those hand soaps that actually kills bacteria. Washing even with plain (clean!) water is an excellent way to rid your hands of most harmful bacterias and is generally superior to cleaning with a blob of disinfectant hand sanitizer.


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## CaramelKittey

Thank you @Damfino and @Nigerian dwarf goat 
That makes sense. I wonder how effective all-natural goat milk soap is. 
Personally, I've never been the biggest fan of hand sanitizer because it kills the good bacteria too..but I suppose so does every other soap. I'm probably wrong though!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> As for anti-bacterial hand soap, I've read that it is no different from any other kind of hand soap--ALL of them are "anti-bacterial"


I have also heard that, even on the news recently!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

CaramelKittey said:


> Personally, I've never been the biggest fan of hand sanitizer because it kills the good bacteria too..but I suppose so does every other soap.


I only use that when i dont have any soap and water around. I have also heard that, and nothing beats good ol' fashioned soap and water! 
I am sure AN goat soap would work because it has lye in it. That is something i am not worried about running out of, because i have like 10 batches of 16 in my closet that are ready!


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## CaramelKittey

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> I only use that when i dont have any soap and water around. I have also heard that, and nothing beats good ol' fashioned soap and water!
> I am sure AN goat soap would work because it has lye in it. That is something i am not worried about running out of, because i have like 10 batches of 16 in my closet that are ready!


Nice!(thumbup)
Sounds like you are ready to fight germs! :buttheads:
We have just recently started milking our goats now that we are trying to wean their babies and anything they step in becomes milk for soap. Let's just say I have a lot of milk waiting to become soap...silly goats...


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

happy soaping!


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## Damfino

CaramelKittey said:


> I wonder how effective all-natural goat milk soap is.
> Personally, I've never been the biggest fan of hand sanitizer because it kills the good bacteria too..but I suppose so does every other soap. I'm probably wrong though!


Goat milk soap is as effective on your hands as any other soap. It's the lather that helps force bacteria out of the little cracks in your skin more than the chemicals in the soap (although lye and charcoal are both very good cleansers in their own right). Most soaps designed for hand washing have fewer harsh chemicals than other types of cleansers because you are right that we don't want to sterilize our skin every single time we wash. If we need absolutely sterile hands, that's what disposable gloves are for. The hand sanitizers do kill germs, but they also strip the oils which is why your hands feel dry and chapped if you use them too often. Too much soap and water washing can do this too, but I find it happens a lot quicker with sanitizers. Sanitizers are also less effective than soap and water at removing germs. They kill the germs they contact, but dirt and little cracks in your skin prevent the sanitizer from accessing all the germs, whereas flushing with water physically removes most of the dirt and rinses out those little cracks. Soap and water followed by a dollop of hand sanitizer is the most thorough cleanse.


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## Damfino

I'm really, really irritated about the "pan-panic" fueled by lockdowns, isolation, and the threat of more lockdowns and isolation. I have never, in almost 15 years of living here, seen our little grocery store so PACKED with people every single day! Maybe the day before Thanksgiving, but that's ONE day in a year. This is EVERY day in a week! Because of the media-fueled panic over this virus, people ended up circulating a lot more than they ever would have done without the "stay at home" orders. It turns out all those strangers in our store were from Pueblo, Colorado Springs, Denver, Trinidad, etc. And it wasn't only our store. Stores in all the other little towns like Walsenburg and Westcliffe got raided and strip-mined by city people as well. I personally think the virus has already gone through our town, but if it hasn't and there really is something to fear from it, then these folks from the city are doing everything they can to spread this disease as far and wide as they possibly can. I know this wasn't the intention of the "powers that be" but they should realize the consequences of making people panic. It often has the exact opposite effect from the one intended.


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## Goats Rock

I escaped the pandemic for about half hour last eve. One of my does had a baby. Sweet little Alpine X Saanen doe kid. She was born Mon. anyway, I sat in the pen with 30 does and the baby. She is learning to run, spin, back up and jump, all at the same time. 
I'd forgotten how fun it is to just watch a new baby just be a baby. For that half hour (I never just sit and do nothing!) all that mattered was that baby and her acrobatics. Watching baby was way better than a nap, for sure! 
arty::run:


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## CaramelKittey

@Goats Rock Congrats on the new baby! Any pictures? That sounds like a great (And completely adorable! (dance)) way to escape the craze!:kid3:


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## CaramelKittey

About soap...
It makes total sense that using soap and water is the best way to wash your hands..and hand sanitizer afterwards. Thanks for explaining @Damfino 
I never thought about hand sanitizer not being able to get through the dirt in your skin to remove all the germs. It's kind of fascinating...but I suppose it isn't rocket science so I don't know why I never put that together. :heehee:

There is a certain type of soap called Castile Soap (We use Dr. Bonner's) that we used to make our own teat wash. The Teat Wash has about 10 drops of lavender oil and a few drops of tea tree oil in a spray bottle of warm water. We put about a couple tablespoons of the Castile soap in it. It's great for cleaning udders before we milk, disinfecting the stand (lavender and tea tree oil are disinfectants.) and helping US wash our hands. I love it and it smells super nice. (highfive)
Anyways..Castile soap is designed to not dry your hands out and it leaves them moisturized. Like a lotion but not as 
I-Cant-Open-The-Door-ey
I wonder how effective Castile Soap (Or all-natural teat wash) would be...I'd assume better..right? Or, at least more comfortable.


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## HoosierShadow

Congrats Goat Rocks on the new baby!!! Definitely a great way to take your mind off of things! 
We have 2 does due in May, and our January babies are turning 9 weeks old now. Their antics truly help ease the stress of modern world issues.

I went to our local grocery this morning - woke up at 7:40am, and decided I would go, so I was out the door at 7:55am lol. Thankfully they did have the cheap 4 packs of toilet paper - the only toilet paper on the shelves, so I got 3 packages of those, and the other things I needed - milk, bananas, some peppers for dinner, and a few odds/ends. We go through a lot of bananas.. I bought milk about 10 days ago, and the little bit I have left was starting to taste a little off last night. I stopped at CVS and found 2 of the larger bottles of hand soap and they had single rolls of paper towels, so I opted to get one of those in case my uncle needs anything, then I can put together a care package to send to him. I told him if I can order non perishables off of Amazon please let me know what he needs and I'd make an order and have it shipped to his house.
Same with my Dad and Step Mom in Florida, but they said they are doing good so far and only need to go pick up a loaf of bread. They are out in the middle of nowhere, and have lots of little gas stations and Dollar General stores spread throughout, and so far things aren't crazy unless you get into the cities/bigger towns.

What I find odd is.... 
All the handsoap and hand sanitizer being gone, but the body soaps being fully stocked or least they looked fully stocked when I was there? I mean...if you need soap, wouldn't body wash be just as effective? lol. Or even dish soap? I noticed they had plenty of dish soap when I slipped into the aisle just to see if any disinfectant spray had magically appeared on the shelves. 

It's a beautiful day in KY despite the craziness. It will be in the low 70s, sun is shining, and lifting moods  Unfortunately my arm is giving me a bit of a fit, very achy below my elbow so we'll see how much I can get done today - goal today is trimming all 10 babies feet and some of the mamas.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

CaramelKittey said:


> I-Cant-Open-The-Door-ey


LOL! One day my daughter was late to school, because she had just put on lotion (she gets really cracked and dry hands) and she couldnt open the door knob :heehee:
I was sitting in the car getting mad, and she finally comes out the door laughing saying she had to grab a rag to get the door open (rofl)


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## Trollmor

Somebody talked about black market. I think those people are a bit disappointed at the re-filled shelves with toilet paper ... But there are constantly small reports here (not in the public broad castings or newspapers, just friends) that hand disinfection is still stolen from hospitals. Urgh!


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## Oliveoil

Lol, Nigerian dwarf goat I know how she feels! I get very dry, cracked hands in the winter and haven't been able to open doors, etc. because of lotion.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Went to the feed store to get some stuff for a goat i am having trouble with, and saw a gallon of 70% rubbing alcohol, and decided to get it. My family goes through that stuff a lot, whether it is for giving shots to animals, getting random stains off of things, cleaning, and now I can maybe make some hand sanitizer. Idk, just thought i would share


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## Jessica84

Well I’ve decided to try and not go out as often. So I’ve been making some changes-
Saw that I only have one bottle of shampoo left so cut all my hair off. Now all I need to do is dye my hair blond and I’ll look like Britney Spears. I’m trying to use the #10 blade on my son and just shave all his off but he is currently hiding from me (little punk).
I’ve also decided to save my razors and am on strike on shaving my legs. I attempt the pits for a day. I gotta hand it to men, I don’t know how you do it! 
I’ve also taken this opportunity to not pluck my eye brows since I no long have to worry about the stuck up soccer moms at school giving me looks, so when this is done I’m going to get them threaded.
My priorities have also changed a lot! I have a kid with goofy legs, some tendon issue, so went to wrap her legs straight since the cold seems to be bothering her. Anyways usually I use paper towels or TP, because seriously who keeps the rolls of cotton around the house? No me! But I just couldn’t do it this time! So I cut up a T-shirt for padding instead. 
I went with my husband to check on his brushing job. Drove by this lot with a bunch of trees with old TP hanging from the trees. Husband wouldn’t stop so I could collect it. When I’m down to the last roll who do you think will be cut off first? 
Ok in all seriousness still not too bad this way! We now have 7 cases in our county, but that is now two families that were close. Everyone is still crazy about food and toilet paper, but gas prices are down 30% beef prices are sky high, so I’ll be playing with my ultrasound a lot here soon and move some older gals and keep the young girls. My daughter and I ordered our leather working supplies so we will be getting going on that, which I have been wanting to do for a LONG time. And best of all, Monday we go get our truck!!! So I will no longer have to hit the feed store any more and won’t have to worry about over grazing here. So honestly all in all everything is good!


----------



## luvmyherd

Thanks for a chuckle. Glad things are straightened out with your truck.
One thing came to me. I can all sorts of stuff when we have a garden. (Which we do not have this year as we were planning to be gone all summer.) But it like never occurred to me that I can buy fresh vegetables and can them when there are no canned veggies on the shelf. (We don't generally buy canned veggies at all; but since we aren't supposed to go out I figured this was a good option.)
So when we did our Senior WM run I grabbed 4 bags of green beans:
















We got a text from a friend today who is down to paper towels so we may make a mercy TP run since we scored on Tuesday.


----------



## NDinKY

Any soap will work on this virus, it disrupts the fatty (lipid) layer coating the virus. Not sure why people insist on liquid soap when bar soap is plenty good. Soap and water are actually more effective than hand sanitizer, so save the sanitizer for when you don’t have soap and water. 

We had our first kids of the season on Monday. Going to disbud tonight, not looking forward to that part (I hate it but horns are a no go for us).


----------



## CaramelKittey

NDinKY said:


> Any soap will work on this virus, it disrupts the fatty (lipid) layer coating the virus. Not sure why people insist on liquid soap when bar soap is plenty good. Soap and water are actually more effective than hand sanitizer, so save the sanitizer for when you don't have soap and water.
> 
> We had our first kids of the season on Monday. Going to disbud tonight, not looking forward to that part (I hate it but horns are a no go for us).


*Fun*
:heehee:
I hope disbudding goes well!
Congrats on the kids! Have you posted their pictures on the kidding Talley?


----------



## CaramelKittey

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/nitrile-gloves

Just saw a pack of 300 nitrile gloves on Jeffers for about $25.
Limit of 2 per person. I think Jefffers calls for a minimum order of $50.
Just wanted to let anybody searching for gloves know where you can buy them.


----------



## NDinKY

CaramelKittey said:


> *Fun*
> :heehee:
> I hope disbudding goes well!
> Congrats on the kids! Have you posted their pictures on the kidding Talley?


Thanks! Just did them both and they seemed to do very well. It's the part about goat kids I absolutely hate doing, especially the bucklings. Last year was my first year doing my own and we had some scurs. I'm hoping to not have any scurs this year. Posted their pics in the birth announcements, will have to add them to the kidding tally.


----------



## Virg

I have family that lives in Saint Petersburg fla, we have actually had to mail them toilet paper! And my son works at the walmart! The walmart in our town has been out of canned goods, milk, meat, eggs and the cereal isle wiped clean too!. I am a retired nurse and honestly can say that I am so glad not to be working in the hospital, nursing home or even a doctor's office anymore. Stuff like this is frightening enough without having to be on the front lines. My husband works at the walmart in town. I make him strip down outside and go right to the shower. I hope this is contained soon!


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## sunnystatekidz

I’m central cali there’s no toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and there’s NO WATER !!!! It’s so crazy. Every store that I’ve asked when they’ll have water says that they don’t know because THE VENDOR IS OUT. So crazy. Thankfully I have a well on my property , but the water still needs to be boiled. Definately blessed tho. It’s scary to think about ppl not having water. There’s also no canned food , or rice or dry beans and pasta. 

But there’s a bunch of produce of veggie burgers lol. 

It’s pretty scary tho , the parking lots have face masks on the ground that people didn’t properly dispose of and we have a lot of cases of the virus. In my county alone we went from 12 to 17 over night last night. But In my state there’s so many cases. No work for me til atleast May since I work for the schools which are all closed.

Wishing you all health and safety.


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## sunnystatekidz

I’m central cali there’s no toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and there’s NO WATER !!!! It’s so crazy. Every store that I’ve asked when they’ll have water says that they don’t know because THE VENDOR IS OUT. So crazy. Thankfully I have a well on my property , but the water still needs to be boiled. Definately blessed tho. It’s scary to think about ppl not having water. There’s also no canned food , or rice or dry beans and pasta. 

But there’s a bunch of produce of veggie burgers lol. 

It’s pretty scary tho , the parking lots have face masks on the ground that people didn’t properly dispose of and we have a lot of cases of the virus. In my county alone we went from 12 to 17 over night last night. But In my state there’s so many cases. No work for me til atleast May since I work for the schools which are all closed.

Wishing you all health and safety.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey..in Oklahoma here. The mayor & Governor are going back & forth on which counties can do what. The county with the most infected, get more restriction. Instead of all being more diligent in the efforts of prevention. 
We have water in convenience store . TP at drug stores. And junk food at $ stores. Main big chain stores are out of most essentials. Yes it is a freaky feeling to walk by someone wearing surgical gloves, Mask, and holding hand sanitizer, while you are shopping. I have thought about carrying around a can of Lysol..in case of uncovered mouths while coughing or sneezing..just a thought . 
Its best just to stay sane, stay clean, stay distant. Its easy just play like no one that you see has taken a shower/ bath..for a week...puuuueeewwww. its easy to stay distant. For me..try to have some fun, even in the chaos.. 
Remember...this too shall pass.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Jessica84 said:


> Saw that I only have one bottle of shampoo left so cut all my hair off.


Holy cow! That's commitment! (clap)


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## fivemoremiles

the governor just shut down Montana for two weeks. i have already been in lock down for two weeks. 
The governor couldn't have timed it better.
i had my first ewe lamb today. just 220 more ewes to go. I will not get out of the lambing barn for 3 weeks.


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## Goats Rock

If you have a garden hose, you don't need toilet paper! (Uh, right???). 
DH and I are totally not seeing any people. He has COPD and I sure don't want to give him anything. So I do chores at the other farm and at my place, he stays around the house. We live in the woods, so he target practices (flintlock rifle) and putts around. 

I keep our gate closed, so no one is tempted to come in. I think we can get by for a few weeks or longer.


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## goathiker

Day 16: I have resorted to Twilight movies. I have to wonder why they don't just keep farmed deer on their giant property. 
Grandson's hair is pretty long, may try to remember how to make corn rows tomorrow 
He's getting pretty good at polishing toenails, heating up soup, pottying dogs, and talking to himself. 
He did all his school work in 2 days and we don't get more until the 30th.

I couldn't remember the date on my first post. Schools are closed until 04-28. Normally school lets out on 06-02 so, are they going to keep them a month over?

Goat showing, yeah, that might not happen very soon. The state fairgrounds have been turned into an emergency field hospital.


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## luvmyherd

We are able to just stay home. Our son who works at a college is able to do everything online.
But my daughter's son and daughter (who live with them) both have jobs that have told them they are NOT excused. The GD is a security guard and does not have much contact with people but the GS is in retail. (YIKES!!) Their father is severely immune compromised. So like Virg's family; they are required to strip, shower and launder their clothes as soon as they get home. 
My patience is wearing thin but I will figure out ways to stay busy.


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## Virg

I am with you luvmyherd, my husband is high risk with diabetes and high blood pressure and I have several autoimmune diseases /problems. I can't stop worrying some days. But keeping busy, lots of prayers are what I do.
I hope everyone gets through this quickly and God bless those who have it!


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## NDinKY

The good news is the extreme measures in Ohio and Kentucky seem to be working, the curve is flattening. They’ve now pushed back the anticipated peak to mid May, which buys time for factories to make more PPE and vents, and scientists to work on treatments and vaccines. 

Its frustrating being stuck at home but it is working. Hospitals are filling up with COVID-19 rule outs, and what we’re seeing is based on actions taken or not taken two weeks ago.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah NDinNY that’s sorta how things are here too. It seems to be flattening. And hospitals are starting to fill up. (Doubled in past 6 days in a couple hosp systems here)but will see if the flattening holds. We are behind Washington state in timeline. We have almost 700 cases as of yesterday.


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## healthyishappy

Sorrows for all you in lockdown. SO glad Utah hasn't declared it yet (knock on wood) I just don't have time for that crap.


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## Virg

healthyishappy said:


> Sorrows for all you in lockdown. SO glad Utah hasn't declared it yet (knock on wood) I just don't have time for that crap.


Our governor here in florida JUST decided to tell people to stay home....not sure he has been paying attention. 
No lock down.


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## Oliveoil

We aren't in lockdown, but our governor declared a "safer at home" order last week and closed all non-essential businesses.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Virg: I was surprised when I heard that yesterday about Florida! That is really late for a state with that many people in large cities to not be locking down earlier. 

We locked down fairly early and I think it’s starting to show signs of paying off for our state. Will see tho. I think it’s still too early to know for sure. 

Heathyishappy: No sorrows for us!! Actually being in lockdown isn’t bad at all!! 

We are having great times on the farm. Getting stuff done around here. Not having to do anything outside our home, not having to drive anywhere for activities, that’s all actually been a blessing! A more simple life!! We are able to focus more on stuff that needs to get done on projects here. And it’s given our family more time at home. All blessings! My kids are all working on school online. All is perfectly great here! we are actually happy to be stuck at home. The benefit of having a farm is we are never bored. Lol. Always something to do or we can choose just to veg and watch tv or play a board game! So no worries!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Olive oil: that’s technically what our state is doing too. 
They’ve closed restaurants etc tho here too. Really only gas stations and grocery stores are the only place a person would need to go to right now. Pharmacy too I guess if a person gets sick. 

But not too many businesses are open I don’t think in my state. 

It helps a lot tho. Having malls closed etc.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

healthyishappy said:


> I just don't have time for that crap.


But you have time to be sick, and in the hospital? 

We got our first confirmed case yesterday. A 76 year old,  so we are in lock down, but really, it isn't all that different than what we have been doing(rofl)
Just going out when I really need to, and trying only to go out once a week. Washing hands, disinfecting the shopping cart handles with the wipe-ees that the store hands out. get in the car, germ ex my hands, the steering wheel, and the door handles, inside and outside. Plus the trunk handle. Wiping down phone every night and lunch time. ETC.

We are getting ALOT of yard work done, and when the wind settles down a bit, we are gonna burn a bunch of scrap wood, and maybe cook some hot dogs and smores:7up:

Thank you Corona Virus! I saw a bald eagle fly off of my roof to the pond! If i wasn't at home, I wouldn't have seen that! Just gotta find the good, in the bad 
also on the plus side, My favorite cow had her calf! Its a GIRL!! She is a little chocolate kinda color! SOOO CUTE!
I have one other calf in the pasture right now, because we got rid of 2 little bull calves that went with their mammas, and she is SUPER happy to have a playmate again:inlove:
i love watching them play around and have fun!
Another plus!
The mamma cow had her calf in the back pasture, which isnt split up, so i decided she would be fine if i didnt separate her for a few days. She left her calf and went to graze, and my wild BLM burro started trampling it! So, I saved the calf. If i wasnt home because of the virus, i would have had one less calf! Now the donkeys are locked up in the front of the pasture for a while!
Welp, off to do some yard work! :cow:


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## Buck Naked Boers

Nigeriandwarf: I completely agree!! Being stuck on the farm has been nothing but pure blessings to us!!

No complaints from us at all! Kids miss their friends. But they can chat with them via internet so life is great!

Congrats on your new cow!! She sounds so cute! And what a blessing to have seen the eagle! Completely agree! This virus has allowed us all to take a step back and slow down. That’s not a bad thing at all! 

Stay safe everyone and enjoy this time you have!


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## GoofyGoat

I'm SO jealous! I wish I could stay home! I would kill to be getting stuff done. I'm still working. My poor daughter has had to pick up a lot of extra chores in addition to her online college classes. She's having a rough time of it.

We only have 8 confirmed cases in our county but I'm close enough to Dallas and Tarrant county to be nervous. They're trying to get all of us retired EMS and Nurses out of retirement too. It's scary times.


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## healthyishappy

Virg said:


> Our governor here in florida JUST decided to tell people to stay home....not sure he has been paying attention.
> No lock down.


Same here. But we don't go out much anyway.


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## healthyishappy

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> But you have time to be sick, and in the hospital?


I wouldn't go to the hospital if I got it. My mom wouldn't take me there unless she thought I was going to die. And i'm grateful. I don't hang out with a lot of people when i'm out of my house anyway.


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## Damfino

Colorado has been on lockdown for 2 1/2 weeks now but since we live out on a farm my life hasn't changed other than it's harder to find stuff in our now-overrun local grocery store. I haven't been since last week so I'm hoping the crowds have finally thinned and they've had time to restock things. My elderly friends still go out constantly. It's like they feel compelled to go to the store at every opportunity and look for more things to stock up on. I've told them I can shop for them but they are determined to go out, including on frequent shopping trips to Pueblo several times a week. I guess they like to crowd into the supermarkets during senior hour and stand in long lines? I don't know... I just don't understand some people. It's like they go out MORE now that we're on lockdown! What's up with that? 

In the meantime, I've either been at home or riding at the saddle club arena. I'm trying to get my horse Dusty ready for obstacle challenges and that's been fun. I also have a coming 2-year-old who is learning to go on the longe line. I recently started building jump standards in my basement. I've got the first eight done except for a final coat of wood sealer, and today I'll start on four more. I hope to have 10 jumps by the time I'm done so I can have a full 8-jump course with a couple of oxers. I'm looking forward to jumping again. I haven't done it since the old jumps that my mom and I built in 2004 fell apart a few years ago. Dusty is 13 or 14 years old and has never jumped before, but I introduced her last summer using a couple of odds and ends at our saddle club and she seems to be ok at it. She'll never be a show jumper but I think she'll be safe and learn to enjoy it.


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## luvmyherd

Buck Naked Boers said:


> The benefit of having a farm is we are never bored. Lol. Always something to do or we can choose just to veg and watch tv or play a board game! So no worries!


*Now that is the spirit!!*
Same goes to everyone else with positive posts. I am so jealous. I really miss my livestock right now. (Not to mention the endless supply of milk and eggs.) I would love to have some animals to tend and give me something to do. We got rid of our animals because we travel so much and here we are stuck at home and no place to go. I may move out into the RV and pretend camp.
Funny, I was feeling like I had to go to Senior hour at WM every week. But I took inventory and we are good for at least 2-3 more weeks so we will wait.
My husband is keeping really busy keeping down the weeds that we do not have goats to eat. We have bees coming next week so he has been getting their hive boxes ready. Funny thing, he fixed up two and a wild swarm moved into one of them. (BONUS! A box of bees is almost $200 here right now.) So he had to dig out an old beat up box and fix it up.
I am still recovering from my hip surgery so cannot do a lot of outside work. I mean, there is more than plenty to do inside;





















I just don't want to!!! Hubby is going to get me a wheelbarrow full of compost so I can get some vegetable seeds planted. We were not planning to have a garden but now it seems prudent.
Happy to here things are going so well for most.
:ty:for being here.


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## Buck Naked Boers

luvmyherd: Totally agree! Now is the time to garden if there ever was a time! I am noticing that seed companies are starting to be out of seed stock. I know it is that time of year when that happens. But I bet that seed companies are going to be swamped with orders. I think we will be keeping our own seed from some of our veggies this year. Now is the time to start thinking about what to stock up on like winter squash and things that might last for months if needed. Always a good idea to plan for that....in case it is needed. None of us know what this fall/winter will be like? I saw on a news report yesterday online that apparently China is in some sort of an 2nd wave of the CV. So who knows what will happen this fall. 

always good to be prepared and a garden is a great way to have food and not have to go to the store! =)


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## GoofyGoat

If you're planting for seed saving make sure you go with heritage seeds or Heirloom seeds for your plants. 
Most seeds gotten at TSC or home depot/lowes like Burpee brand are modified so they might or might not sprout a second or third planting. Same thing with saving seeds from grocery store produce ...Just be careful that you're saving the right kind of seeds for a successful garden down the road.


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## luvmyherd

GoofyGoat said:


> If you're planting for seed saving make sure you go with heritage seeds or Heirloom seeds for your plants.
> Most seeds gotten at TSC or home depot/lowes like Burpee brand are modified so they might or might not sprout a second or third planting. Same thing with saving seeds from grocery store produce ...Just be careful that you're saving the right kind of seeds for a successful garden down the road.


Very true. We get our heritage seeds from a place called The Seed Bank (it is actually in an old bank.) We are able to save seeds from year to year. Sometimes, just to see what happens we have planted seeds from hybrid plants. We have gotten some very interesting things indeed.


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## Damfino

Well, turns out the stores are still very busy. It wasn't too crazy when I was in there, but they're still out (or mostly out) of staples like butter, cheese, eggs, etc. The toilet paper aisle looks like a barren wasteland. Good thing I don't need TP in the foreseeable future! The store was not crowded while I was in there, but the clerk said they're often still swamped with customers. The hardware store is staying busy. Lots of people are taking advantage of this time to do home projects.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Well, I'm back! 
Sad start, when i went outside to do yard work, i found one of my goats dead that i was nursing back to health because of a Barber Pole infestation 
We buried him, and I went back inside, cried for a while, and decided, that I cant stay in bed all day, so... 
I have a big goat that wont jump up on the milk stand because she just cant. I built her a ramp! It is pretty nice, just have to add something on there for traction so she wont slip. Though about an old truck bed mat, but its heavy. Cant go out to get shingles. I might ask my neighbor for some, because all of my roofs are metal. That took me almost all day, because lets face it, i am NOT a carpenter! All that matters is that it fits perfectly into the milk stand, like a frame 
I wanted to start milking her today, but it started raining, so Imma wait for the rain to stop
Just ate dinner, we had some rabbit from my friends kids 4- H project, collards from our garden and baked potatoes from my neighbors harvest from last year. YUM!
Now I plan on taking a shower, watchin TV, and gettin one of the kids to rub my back, because all the bending over from cutting, screwing, and measuring from building almost has me crippled!
Im tellin ya, when that virus is all said and done, my property will be ***** and span! 

I also plan on waking up early and driving 30 minuites away to the nearest HEB (texas grocery chain)to get some more groceries. GAAH! Wish me luck!


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## GoofyGoat

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Well, I'm back!
> Sad start, when i went outside to do yard work, i found one of my goats dead that i was nursing back to health because of a Barber Pole infestation
> We buried him, and I went back inside, cried for a while, and decided, that I cant stay in bed all day, so...
> I have a big goat that wont jump up on the milk stand because she just cant. I built her a ramp! It is pretty nice, just have to add something on there for traction so she wont slip. Though about an old truck bed mat, but its heavy. Cant go out to get shingles. I might ask my neighbor for some, because all of my roofs are metal. That took me almost all day, because lets face it, i am NOT a carpenter! All that matters is that it fits perfectly into the milk stand, like a frame
> I wanted to start milking her today, but it started raining, so Imma wait for the rain to stop
> Just ate dinner, we had some rabbit from my friends kids 4- H project, collards from our garden and baked potatoes from my neighbors harvest from last year. YUM!
> Now I plan on taking a shower, watchin TV, and gettin one of the kids to rub my back, because all the bending over from cutting, screwing, and measuring from building almost has me crippled!
> Im tellin ya, when that virus is all said and done, my property will be ***** and span!
> 
> I also plan on waking up early and driving 30 minuites away to the nearest HEB (texas grocery chain)to get some more groceries. GAAH! Wish me luck!


Right now HEB has free curbside pick up. Place orders online and they put it in your truck and off you go.
I placed an order yesterday to pick up tomorrow after work. The only thing I won't order is produce because I'm really picky about it. Luckily I have a farmers stand on my way home and he has most things I need. You might try that if you don't want to go in and shop


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Ya, i ordered there too. i wasnt very good at the app thing though! LOL Not super user friendly. It would work best if you needed a few items, but not a whole weeks worth!


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## GoofyGoat

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Ya, i ordered there too. i wasnt very good at the app thing though! LOL Not super user friendly. It would work best if you needed a few items, but not a whole weeks worth!


I used the website on my computer lol...I'm lousy at using apps. Too old school


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## Goats Rock

Nigerian Dwarf Goat, instead of shingles or another non slip surface for your ramp, use slats of wood for cleats, then she won't slide back. So sorry to hear your goat died. That is so hard, especially when you try everything to save them.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Goats Rock said:


> instead of shingles or another non slip surface for your ramp, use slats of wood for cleats


Ohh! Good idea! Never thought of that! :cleverdoh)

Thank you


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## bisonviewfarm

Things are starting to get less crazy here at least at the grocery stores. But it seems like no one's following the stay at home order. I work in a liquor store and I swear I'm seeing more people now than I did before the order. 4 cases out of a whole 43 people tested in our county I suspect there's a lot more out there that have it but if you don't have a 103 fever they aren't testing you.


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## HoosierShadow

Nigerian Dwarf Goat - I am so very sorry for your loss  That is heartbreaking, but sometimes no matter what we do, they just can't overcome things like that  

Other than a trip to the bank the other day I haven't been out since Monday when I went to the grocery store, and stopped by the Family dollar/Dollar tree which are side by side. Kroger Grocery was in good order, except for paper products, hand soap and stuff like beans.
I actually did find the hand soap large refills and some cleaner concentrate at Dollar tree and felt like that was a big score and only paid $3!

Today would have been the first day of my spring job... at the racetrack. It was a tough day, about the time for the first race, I went out and spent time with the goats. The weather was gorgeous. It would have been a great day for racing. I'm so bummed. This weekend will be tough, it's usually the biggest weekend of our spring race meet. I have a lot of horse racing friends and many are in media, so we all love to get together and hang out for morning workouts, go to the track kitchen to have breakfast, then eventually head up to the media center to get things ready for the afternoon races. I pre make files for each race, and fill in the blanks for each winning horse, rider, trainer and owner. Since it's on the 4th floor and a maze of hallways, we have to wait until the races are over before we can upload, so we might be there 1-2 hours after the last 'big' race of the day editing and uploading pictures (and waiting for the traffic to thin out). 

Our Governor has stated he wants schools to stay closed until May 4th. So I know my daughter won't be going back on April 20th.
The school announced yesterday that they will go to a virtual classroom type setup. My daughter is in middle school and will have class starting Monday at 9am-12pm - each of her classes will be 30 minutes long with about 30-45 minutes worth of 'homework' after that. I think it's a great idea, live video interaction with the teacher to get immediate help. 
I'm thinking at this point kids probably won't be going back until the fall semester, but I sure hope I am wrong. 

4-H has cancelled the state horse contest & shows in June, and a few other things. So far, they are saying small animal tag in for market/commercial projects have no changes. Our tag in date for my daughter's 4-H wether would be May 2nd. We haven't banded him yet because we weren't sure what would happen, but guess we better band him this weekend.... 
Our county fair is in mid June and they are still encouraging people to work on fair projects. I hope that isn't false hope. It's so hard right now - feed goats up for showing, or not... We are slowly working the bucks and a couple of yearlings up just in case.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

HoosierShadow said:


> Nigerian Dwarf Goat - I am so very sorry for your loss  That is heartbreaking, but sometimes no matter what we do, they just can't overcome things like that





Goats Rock said:


> . So sorry to hear your goat died. That is so hard, especially when you try everything to save them.


Thank yall :hug:


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Well, my daughter just informed me she didn't know it was Friday and she has until monday to finish all her homework! She hasnt done ONE BIT! I thought i had to worry about my son not getting his homework done! He has only one more class to do! 

I feel bad for my son. He turns 16 on the 15th, and i dont think he will be able to get his licence, because the thing is closed. Poor kid. A lot of his friends havent gotten theirs either 

Also feel bad for my second oldest. Her 21st b day was on the 28th, and she wasnt allowed to leave the city, so she spent her birthday studying in her apartment, and i said she is allowed to go to the pound and get a foster dog, because she has been wanting a pet since she moved into the apartment. Since she is not going back to school anytime soon, i decided it was the perfect time for her to get one.
She picked a cute dog!


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## Oliveoil

I know how your son feels! I turned 16 in March and I had an appointment the day after they started canceling appointments. At this rate, I won't get mine until summer! The only good thing about it is I don't have anywhere to go, so having a license now wouldn't be a big deal anyway.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Goofygoat: yep I most of the time order those type of seeds. Good point!!

Luvmyherd: that’s cool! Sounds like a neat seed place!

Damfino: yeah it’s a pretty interesting experience to go to the grocer store these days. They have put up plastic shields by the checkers. When your checking out you have to stand behind the shield. They put those up statewide I think at all grocery stores now. It’s really a different world. 

My question is....once they deem us as being over covid19 when will things really be safe? I mean it’s still going to be out there right? Maybe less than it had been. Then what about fall? Will it then go round 2 like it is in China right now?? I’m not panicked. Just watching all this stuff and staying busy on the farm. It’s interesting this weird world we live in now.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Nigeriandwarf:
So sorry for yr loss! That’s so sad. 

Yeah my son can’t get his permit for the same reasons. It’s pretty sad. But with how crowded the dmv is usually it’s a good thing it’s closed. Just not sure why they couldn’t take a test online? Nobody trusts people not to cheat anymore tho. It’s sad.


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## Damfino

Man! You people and your kids are lucky! I couldn't get my drivers license till I was 17 because my parents made me save up and buy my own car before I could learn to drive. They sure as heck weren't going to let me anywhere near theirs! Since I'd had a horse since I was 12 and was expected to pay for all her expenses on my own, it took me a while to save up for that first car! I made do for a while with a dirt bike which I drove without a license. My dad said as long as I wore my helmet so no one would recognize me, and as long as I didn't drive like a wild man I could ride it to the place where I kept my horse. It sure beat doing that 20-mile round trip on a mountain bike like I'd been doing since I was 12! When I finally got a car, it meant I could bring my saddle with me. That was nice!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

The second my kids turn 16, they get a job to pay for gas lol! My son and his friend started doing fencing. They have only done one job so far, but they got paid good money for it, plus they have done a little fencing around out place and the friends dads place. My 2 oldest daughters both got jobs at a restaurant, because that is really the only choice we have in our town LOL!


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## Oliveoil

Lol, I have 5 siblings. My parents WANT me to get my license so I can drive myself and siblings to sports, fairs, etc. and they don't have to drive all over the place getting 4 kids from 4 different places(that is when we can do stuff again).


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## Damfino

Lucky! My parents rarely drove me and my brothers anywhere. They ran full time businesses and gas was too expensive, so we were expected to walk or ride our bikes everywhere. My horse lived 10 miles away so I did a lot of cycling for a few years until I bought the old dirt bike. We actually really enjoyed the freedom except when it rained. And there was one very memorable snowstorm in July that I had to cycle home in. It started out rain so I got soaked through before the hail and snow started. It had been sunny and warm when I left so I was nowhere near properly dressed. It was 3 or 4 miles home and my skin matched my blue shorts by the time I got there! I believe it snowed 2 inches in about half an hour.

When I got my car I had to pay for the gas, tires, repairs, etc. The one thing my parents paid for was the insurance because it was really cheap if my car was added to their policy instead of taking out my own. I did most of the maintenance myself back then. My dad taught me how to change the oil, rotate the tires, flush the radiator, change spark plugs, replace the fuel filter, etc. I kept doing that stuff for years even after Phil and I got married, but eventually I realized it's easier to pay someone else--especially when it's a 3/4 ton diesel truck that takes almost 4 gallons of oil and whose tires I can barely lift. My arms aren't long enough to reach the oil filter from any direction. Heck, I'm not even tall enough to see under the danged hood! No wonder pack rats keep building nests in there. They know I'll never see them without a ladder!


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## Damfino

Back to the coronavirus topic...

Sadly, last week a man from our church passed away from long-standing health problems that resulted in septicemia. I believe he was in the hospital for about a week before he died and during that time his wife and family were not able to visit him because of the coronavirus protocols. As far as I know, he died alone among strangers. Of course his family can't even have a memorial for him. 

It got me thinking about my dad and how if he ends up in the hospital for any reason (and there could be a LOT of reasons at this point), none of us will probably ever seen him again. It will be like he just disappears. It's a very unsettling thought and it makes me wonder how many people in his position are going to opt to stay home and die with family rather than risk going in for treatment with the possibility of never being able to say goodbye.


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## happybleats

Nigerian Dwarf Goats..I'm very sorry you lost your goat.  ((hugs))

Damfino..very sorry about your church member. A local here also passed away with no family to support him while in the hospital. 

I do think those of us on a farm have it way better. There is plenty to do to keep us busy. My daughter is in town and bored to death.


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## toth boer goats

So very sorry


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

happybleats said:


> My daughter is in town and bored to death.


My 2 oldest are in town too, and they have NOTHING to do lol! Both are in college, so they have been studying, but there is only so much of that to do, before you go insane! My oldest is married and has her 2 cats LOL! 
My second is in a beach town for nursing school, but since people cant be responsible enough to stay 6ft apart, they had to close the beaches, so her one thing that she was doing is over with. 
I on the other hand am trying to stay busy!


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## happybleats

My daughter in town works for the PD as a 911 dispatch. She got bad allergies and was ordered to stay home and get tested lol. Shes waiting results sense can return to work.


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## Damfino

Aw, I'd missed that about the goat that died. I haven't been around much the last few days and kind of skimmed past a few posts here. Sorry you lost him, NDG!

This is a decent article about viral dose:

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-exposures-might-most-dangerous-184640808.html

It's a concept I've been trying to explain to the folks in the bighorn sheep management group who think contact with even one pathogen is too much. I am very upset that the protocol is to shoot any bighorn that is seen near domestic livestock. This happens sometimes during the rut when lone males go looking for new herds. It's nature's way of spreading genetic diversity among bighorn herds, which are normally fairly isolated and cohesive compared to some other species. But in their vigilance against pathogen spread, our wildlife managers have decided that these wandering males pose a threat to entire populations by introducing novel pathogens. However, I am of the opinion that this is one of the safest ways to introduce pathogens in a low enough dose to trigger an immune response among herd members without overwhelming their systems and creating a devastating disease event.

The article highlights why doctors, nurses, and others in the healthcare industry are at much higher risk of developing severe symptoms than most people. It also begs the question of whether "stay indoors" mandates are actually the best protocol. I know people like to bash the college students that packed out on the beaches during spring break, but they were probably safer there than indoors where ventilation is poor and a person can keep breathing the same germs over and over again. Government should be encouraging people to spend as much time outdoors as possible right now, and beaches, parks, trails, golf courses, tennis courts, etc. should stay open. Casual mingling outdoors is probably safer than sitting at home incubating your own germ factory.

(Says the lady currently sitting inside staring at her computer because a snowstorm thwarted her plan to spend the day cutting firewood!)


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Oh no lol! That stinks!


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> However, I am of the opinion that this is one of the safest ways to introduce pathogens in a low enough dose to trigger an immune response among herd members without overwhelming their systems and creating a devastating disease event.


BINGO!!!

Our governor has made it clear that we should go outdoors and exercise. (While following distancing guidelines of course.) Playgrounds are closed and I do not have a problem with that as kids just love to spread their snot around. But we go out everyday for a mile or more walk. Our Ag Dept is a little over a mile down the road. We drive there as it is not a safe nor fun walk. But they have sidewalks and trails and gardens that helps make us feel like we are in the wilderness.


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## Tanya

Here we are sitting in rainy weather. South Africa still has 14 days of lock down to go. We ran out of hand sanitizer so we make our own. Wet wipes and Dettol. Allot of people bulk boaught a week ago. Me personally I buy 3 months in advance. It is pandemonium with people not understanding or caring. We will make it through.


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## Goats Rock

I took an hour today to run to the groc store and hardware store. For some reason, 4 bulbs in the barn decided to dim and go out at the same time! (LCD bulbs). 

At the groc store, not many people. Our entire county only has 98,000 people and is the largest, land wise, in the state. So, not a lot were shopping today. But, if someone was near you, they averted their eyes, not their faces. Almost like, "if I can't see you, I won't get sick!" I was fascinated by people's reaction to others in their 10' (not 6') personal space. (Yeah, I'm weird!). They would jerk their carts and almost run the other way. 

I was glad to get out and get home. It's the first time I saw other people besides DH in 16 or so days. I think I like my goats better!


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## healthyishappy

healthyishappy said:


> I wouldn't go to the hospital if I got it. My mom wouldn't take me there unless she thought I was going to die. And i'm grateful. I don't hang out with a lot of people when i'm out of my house anyway.


I have gone to the hospital that I know of, for myself, ONCE. Technically it was just a doctors office. Because my brother popped my ear drum.


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## CaramelKittey

healthyishappy said:


> I have gone to the hospital that I know of, for myself, ONCE. Technically it was just a doctors office. Because my brother popped my ear drum.


Ouch! That's sounds bad and is a good reason to go to the hospital..
I've only been to the hospital when I was born. Never since and I sure don't plan too!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

healthyishappy said:


> Because my brother popped my ear drum.


OUCH!


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## Tanya

The fortunate thing is that being on an agricultural holding, my family and I are in isolation any way. I dont do hospitals well and avoid them like the plague. I dont want any of us in one. The last stay for me was when I had my last daughter in 2010. So here we are stocked on flu kits and cold medication. 

We must wear surgical masks when we go out. So the game is to spot the next possible Corona victim. My daughter stays home and hubby and I go out. Its scary though.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Wow damfino that is awful about yr church member. So sorry to hear that. 

Yes that would be awful to not be able to have a funeral or memorial for a family member. Wow. Can't wrap my brain around that thought. So much has changed in such a short time! It's mind boggling.

Even people who planned to get married or people like my daughter who are supposed to be graduating from college. Life is just so different now....and nobody can say for sure when it will change back to somewhat normal.

This started with two wks to slow the virus. Now it's 30 days to slow the virus.

I was surprised today when a major event cancelled for July. I'm starting to wonder ok so we are home for summer too!? I don't think so! Our country can't sustain financially for that long....

China is going round two with this virus tho which is interesting.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Damfino you are right!
We are outside when the weather is good. Less when it’s rainy. But I totally agree!

Our governor closed all parks, anything outdoor is closed by her. It’s crazy!! Not happy with our governor. 

However she can’t close our farm! Lol

We are now at about 900 cases. And number keeps going up.


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## Tanya

Buck Naked Boer it is so scary. We started with 21 days of isolation. We are going into Autumn here but the farm I am on doesnt know about isolation. I am now forced to do my 10 year okds first term work with her. 
I dont know how to teach human. My 21 year old daughter has to complete her degree online. I am not used to seeing my husband every night. He is a long dostance truck driver so I think it scares him more to be here for so long. 
Funerals here are limited to immediate family only and weddings are cancelled. We only have 1550 cases of virus in South Africa and 7 confirmed deaths the last I checked.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Wow. Yeah it’s strange this world we are living in right now. But this support group is here. Many on this forum have probably homeschooled. Both my kids were homeschooled for part of their school years. It’s actually a great option for kids to home school. They can learn a lot from being home. And you’ll have a lot of support I’m sure from the teachers!

We all are here too for support. We all are going through this....


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## Tanya

I am very glad I found this forum. At least I can speak to other humans. Conversation with hubby dries up quickly. . My animals make more sense to me. But this virus terifies me


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## healthyishappy

CaramelKittey said:


> Ouch! That's sounds bad and is a good reason to go to the hospital..
> I've only been to the hospital when I was born. Never since and I sure don't plan too!


Hurt like heck. Blood all over the place. It was definitely a good reason to go.
My mom gives us herbs. We aren't super sick ever.


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## Damfino

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Our governor closed all parks, anything outdoor is closed by her. It's crazy!! Not happy with our governor.


Our governor (Colorado) has encouraged folks to get outside as much as possible and parks and trails are staying open. I hope to take my horse down to Great Sand Dunes NP in the next couple of weeks if the weather warms up a little. I love riding bareback on the dunes and in Medano Creek. The park is still open (just not the campground or facilities) and they're currently taking no fees!! The dunes are already fairly empty this time of year, and I'm guessing they'll be darn near deserted right now.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Damfino: Wow! I wish that were the case here in Oregon. Thankfully we have space here outside. But yes going hiking would be fun!!
Not sure what our governor is thinking!

Tanya: yes this forum is a huge blessing! And we are all here to support each other through this time and beyond!!


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## toth boer goats




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## happybleats

Im getting lots of pictures and playing with old pictures making memes ..just for fun..Heres a few about the toilet paper issue..


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## GoofyGoat

Those are great @happybleats thanks for sharing!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Aww! Thanks for the laugh happybleats!


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## luvmyherd

I love your memes!! If we lose our senses of humor we are doomed.


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## happybleats

luvmyherd said:


> If we lose our senses of humor we are doomed.


Yes!! Not disrespecting those who are ill or lost love ones due to this virus..but to poke fun at those who went a bit left field. Humor keeps us sane or at least not as crazy! (thumbup)


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## jschies

I've spent the last few days watching the Incredible Dr. Pol. I don't think I have ever had a channel that showed it. He is awesome! Dish gave us some extra channels! I also watched The Dog Whisperer which I haven't seen for awhile. Trying to keep away from the news!! I wish that I had some kids still at home to home school!!


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## CaramelKittey

NJ 4-H announced today that they are canceling all events. They were originally planning to have kids record their presentations and send them to the 4-H office however they have heavily implied canceling the fair this year likely meaning no presentations.


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## CaramelKittey

healthyishappy said:


> Hurt like heck. Blood all over the place. It was definitely a good reason to go.
> My mom gives us herbs. We aren't super sick ever.


That's fantastic! We put lots of herbs in teas and we rarely get colds or fevers. It's incredible what herbs, fruits, and vegetables can do for your health.


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## Cedarwinds Farm

@happybleats @luvmyherd those mêmes are fantastic! 
My workplace is closed. So I'm on this weird, unpaid vacation, and I'm getting SO MUCH stuff done. Fences built, early spring gardening done...and hanging with my goats, for whom social distancing is not an easy concept to grasp.


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## Damfino




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## happybleats

(doh):heehee:


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## Cedarwinds Farm

Damfino said:


> View attachment 177771


The logic escapes me.


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## Goats Rock

Back in the late 1990's, everyone was convinced the end was coming with the year 2000. Computers would crash, power plants would fail, chaos would reign everywhere. People bought tons of canned goods etc. and waited..... Nothing happened. 

Now, people are scared, and hoarding. I guess having lots of stuff, mainly food and toilet paper, is some sort of comfort thing. The illness can't be controlled but your own little space can be?!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Our state added 100 more cases yesterday. Total cases 999 now. And now have 26 deaths. They aren’t expecting our state to peak til mid May I believe. We are quite a ways behind Washington state. 

I’m not scared really. But what’s going on in our world is definitely unsettling. All is ok with my family and extended family so far. And I’m very thankful for that. My mom has a genetic inherited lung condition. If she were to get this virus it would be very serious for her. 

And Damfino pointed out to us about the man who died in the church damfino belongs to. Dying without family. No service etc. 

If any of us had to go through that as thousands of people are going through right now.....we’d see this virus very differently. 

So no I don’t think we need to be scared or panicked. But it’s definitely unsettling especially to those of us with family members who have underlying health conditions. And it’s very sad about what thousands of families are going through right now 

While it hasn’t touched our families.... It’s the people who’s families have been touched that I’m sad for. Too many people are passing and passing very quickly from this virus. 

Hope you all have a great day.


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## Tanya

So on this point. Memes are a good stress relief. But as a community we must also remember those fallen with the illness, survivors and surviving families. The impact is great, but being united and understanding that going forward change is inevatible, we will be more compassionate towards all. Animal and human.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I completely agree Tanya!! Too many people are loosing loved ones right now. It’s pretty sad.


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## jschies

Just going to Walmart and viewing the way that we are living is sad.. 

We had a former church member who grew up with my son--32 years old with young children. He went on an island vacation with a group. They came back and all had a weird flu. He went to the doctor and tested negative for the flu. His wife went out of town with the kids for the weekend. He went into respiratory distress and died. That was on December 8, but I just wonder if it was already the Coronavirus. He was healthy before. 

This whole thing is just sad...


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## Sfgwife

Oh my. So. If you use ivermectin... might want to get a bottle soon. There are people using it since news reports said that it works on covid 19. Ugh! TSC has pulled it off their shelves. 

I may be in the wrong here but.... natural selection?


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## Damfino

Seriously?? When are people going to learn that self-medicating with non-approved drugs, outside the supervision of a doctor, particularly for a virus that is deadly to only a small fraction of those infected, is a really, really BAD idea!! Apparently in some areas of Iran, more people have died from quack remedies than from coronavirus. I know ivermectin is a safe drug, but all drugs can have unexpected side-effects, particularly if you have certain underlying health problems or are on some other kind of medication that could react with it. Even if ivermectin were an effective treatment, no one knows what dosage, or if it needs to be combined with something else to work, etc. This is classic panic reaction. 

People are so scared of this virus that I would not be the least surprised if the death toll is much higher than it should be due to elevated stress levels across the board. Immune systems don't respond correctly when people are worried and stressed. When all is said and done, it will be interesting to see what Sweden's outcome is. They aren't practicing the lockdown measures in place all over the rest of Europe and so far they aren't having worse outcomes from COVID-19, or a faster increase in cases or deaths.


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## Goats Rock

Tyl-200 is scarce- why? Because it says its for pneumonia!! NOT people pneumonia, but I guess desperate people do desperate things. Ivomec works on COVID 19? How could a parasite med help a virus? Wow, well, since I cannot legally use any wormer but Safeguard on the milkers, only the bucks get ivomec. Is it a specific ingredient in Ivomec?


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## Sfgwife

Damfino said:


> Seriously?? When are people going to learn that self-medicating with non-approved drugs, outside the supervision of a doctor, particularly for a virus that is deadly to only a small fraction of those infected, is a really, really BAD idea!! Apparently in some areas of Iran, more people have died from quack remedies than from coronavirus. I know ivermectin is a safe drug, but all drugs can have unexpected side-effects, particularly if you have certain underlying health problems or are on some other kind of medication that could react with it. Even if ivermectin were an effective treatment, no one knows what dosage, or if it needs to be combined with something else to work, etc. This is classic panic reaction.
> 
> People are so scared of this virus that I would not be the least surprised if the death toll is much higher than it should be due to elevated stress levels across the board. Immune systems don't respond correctly when people are worried and stressed. When all is said and done, it will be interesting to see what Sweden's outcome is. They aren't practicing the lockdown measures in place all over the rest of Europe and so far they aren't having worse outcomes from COVID-19, or a faster increase in cases or deaths.


Yep seriously. A lady gave it to her and her husband.... he is dead and she in icu. There are others doing it too. That was just the worst i saw on it. The blip i saw was from a doctor talkin about it. :/


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## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> Tyl-200 is scarce- why? Because it says its for pneumonia!! NOT people pneumonia, but I guess desperate people do desperate things. Ivomec works on COVID 19? How could a parasite med help a virus? Wow, well, since I cannot legally use any wormer but Safeguard on the milkers, only the bucks get ivomec. Is it a specific ingredient in Ivomec?


i saw a news blip a few days ago about it. I cannot remember what it was in it that took care of the virus.


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## Damfino

Sfgwife said:


> Yep seriously. A lady gave it to her and her husband.... he is dead and she in icu. There are others doing it too. That was just the worst i saw on it. The blip i saw was from a doctor talkin about it. :/


Those people drank fish tank cleaner, not ivermectin. Just because certain dangerous household products contain the same or similar chemicals as ones found in prescription drugs does NOT mean they are a safe substitute for medicine! I swear some people use their brain like it's nothing more than a paperweight for their head.


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## Damfino

Sfgwife said:


> i saw a news blip a few days ago about it. I cannot remember what it was in it that took care of the virus.


I looked it up and it sounds like so far it's only working in a petri dish. Things that kill pathogens in a petri dish may not work at all in a living body, or may only work in combination with other drugs.


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## Sfgwife

Damfino said:


> Those people drank fish tank cleaner, not ivermectin. Just because certain dangerous household products contain the same or similar chemicals as ones found in prescription drugs does NOT mean they are a safe substitute for medicine! I swear some people use their brain like it's nothing more than a paperweight for their head.


Oh dang! Maybe it was somethin about the iver in the same blip and i ASSumed.... :/. Cause i remember hearing it in the same blip. But i did see the doc talkin about it a few days ago about the petri dish trial. Before i heard about the couple. So i was not all wrong... just part. Hahahaha. But still.. ugh people never cease to amaze me.


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## HoosierShadow

I'd heard about Ivermectin Pour on as well, so it will be interesting to find out if it really works inside the human body and if it will be safe. Could you even imagine that? Crazy to me. Of course, now I am worried because we are very low on Ivermectin Pour On and use it to treat mites.

We had a nice, busy weekend here at home. Got some projects done, and a lot of procrastinating on other projects.

I talked with my Step Mom Fri night and she mentioned my Dad was having issues finding some stuff like - toilet paper. They are elderly, high risk, and live out in the middle of nowhere (ok.. a jungle lol) in Florida. She also told me they went to the local grocery and because of everything going on, couldn't get macaroni and cheese AND Ramen noodles (as an example), they could choose one or the other. Wow 

So I got up early Saturday morning and arrived at our local grocery 15 minutes before they opened. About 10 people then about 20 people, everyone spaced out very well, talking, and up beat.
Everyone rushes to the toilet paper aisle....
and...
For the first time in the times I've gone the last month it was well stocked! They were limiting it to 1 toilet paper and paper towel. Not only that, but they had disinfectant wipes, and hand soap. 
So I was able to send my Dad and step Mom a box filled with supplies to hopefully get them through another month. Sadly, shipping cost me about double what the stuff cost, but... totally worth it to ensure they have what they need vs. trying to keep going out to find it.

I went to get feed on Saturday. My daughter rode with me. It had been the first time she'd been out of the house in nearly a month. She didn't get out of the truck.
I stopped at Lowe's trying to find something to fix a hay feeder, thankfully very few people on the building/wood side of the store, but the garden center? packed! What was worse? I saw kids running around 
I had to stop in at TSC to get cd/t, t-posts and a new drench syringe and it was busy too, but thankfully saw no 'families' there.


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## Tanya

Wow. . Sometimes I dont know about human behaviour. Animals at least know when to eat what. What happened to our instincts? 
Here I have herbs for meds as a precaution. My daughters and I only see doctors when it is serious. Prescribed meds are very expensive. 
So for Destiny I only want what comes naturally for goats. 
It makes me sad that desperation leads to unnecessary pain and suffering.


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## goathiker

You guys are funny, you're all falling for it lol.
Deaths in NY are way down this week, most other large cities as well. 
Many people here complaining because the death certificate of loved ones were changed from cancer/hepatitis/bronchitis/aids/suicide/ to coronavirus, just to make it real. 

This isn't even new. China released the first SARS wave in 2002.
Then MERS 
Then H1N1 

The question you need to ask yourself is why is everyone in every country on voluntarily lockdown except the 2 most communist countries that give us information. 

I think that when we bounce back from this, nothing will ever be the same again 

I hope I can be proven wrong


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## Tanya

Goathiker that is an interesting debate.


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> Many people here complaining because the death certificate of loved ones were changed from cancer/hepatitis/bronchitis/aids/suicide/ to coronavirus, just to make it real.


This is something I've been wondering about. There is no distinction being made between people who die OF coronavirus and people who die WITH coronavirus. I know of a few folks who went to the hospital with it but are now at home recovering while others who died with coronavirus are being counted as coronavirus deaths even though they had many preexisting conditions that actually caused their demise. My sister-in-law's aunt died in February before anyone started testing. She had an undiagnosed pneumonia (tested negative for flu) that came on very suddenly and killed her very quickly. But she was a lifelong smoker with preexisting lung problems so her death was chalked up to those issues. Right now that death would doubtless be counted in the ever-mounting coronavirus death tolls being used to terrify people even though this would not really be an accurate statement. I look at my dad the same way. If he got coronavirus and died right now, I'd feel very angry that his death would be attributed to this novel disease just to get the numbers up, rather than the cancer that is actually to blame.

There is an awful lot of apocalyptic scaremongering going on right now and that, to me, is way worse than the virus. Just yesterday I read, for entertainment purposes, an article that screamed, "THE BEACHES AREN'T SAFE!!!" It then went into this long speculative discourse about how this virus, with its lipid-based outer wall, could float on the surface of water. And how wastewater dumped in the ocean has only been treated for things like E. coli, so this virus _might_ survive the sewage treatment process. And since it has been found in fecal matter (we don't know if the virus is still alive in fecal matter but it has been found there!) it _could_ be contaminating the ocean. How in a lab they measured it hanging in the air for up to three hours (so naturally it _could_ hang in the air for hours at the beach as well!). How it _can_ hang out on surfaces (like sand!). There wasn't one bit of substantiated scientific research on whether this virus can *actually* survive in salt water or sunlight, or any mention of the fact that a breeze would disperse air particles in seconds, or any other mitigating or even factual information pertaining to real life beaches. It just wanted to scare people away from the beach. It also used the words "deadly virus" a lot. As entertaining as these articles are for me, I'm not sure it's responsible to publish this nonsense to an already overly terrified populace. It's equivalent to yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.


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## Tanya

Wow.


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## healthyishappy

goathiker said:


> I think that when we bounce back from this, nothing will ever be the same again


I so agree. I sure hope we are wrong.


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## Oliveoil

I don't know enough about that to make a judgment, but Damfino would have those people with those underlying conditions died if they hadn't gotten the coronavirus. Eventually, yes. But I would think the coronavirus was the final nail in the coffin and if they hadn't gotten it they would have still been alive. Do they do the same thing for the flu? If an old smoker got the flu and died would they attribute that death to the flu or to the smoking? Yes, the smoker would die eventually but wouldn't have necessarily died as early if they hadn't gotten the flu.


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## Damfino

The word "eventually" would be an exaggeration in the cases I'm talking about. And quite honestly, at the risk of sounding heartless, I am rather hopeful that some bug takes my dad sooner than this cancer he's going through. A long, slow, torturous crawl is not a good way to meet death. I can think of a few people I would rather have seen go six months sooner from an opportunistic pathogen than from the things that eventually killed them. That's the blessing and the curse of living in an age where we can buy miracles. We can keep the pathogens at bay for so long that the folks who would have met a somewhat more merciful death a few months earlier are now strung out to the bitter end to die of the disease that made them vulnerable to those pathogens in the first place. It is difficult to strike a good balance between quantity of life and quality of life. It's also difficult to judge precisely what killed someone when they have many things going wrong at once.


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## luvmyherd

Sfgwife said:


> I may be in the wrong here but.... natural selection?


Sadly, yes. But we don't want to say that too loud.



happybleats said:


> Not disrespecting those who are ill or lost love ones due to this virus


Definitely, this is tragic for many.
But in my family we tend to go out laughing when we can. (My father cracked jokes until he quit speaking at all.)
I belong to a Dementia support group because of my mother in law. You would not believe the tragic stories that raise a round of laughter. It is a coping mechanism.


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## Tanya

My mom had lung cancer and dementia. But eventually she died of natural causes. Neither the cancer nor the dementia killed her. She went to sleep ad just slipped in her sleep. No medication no pain. No nothing. 

My dad suffered depression and anxiety. He committed suicide. No pain. No medication. No nothing. If they both lived now would their deaths have been atributed to this virus? No. We cannot speculate. Only sympathise and take precautions. 
Its bringing us to our knees. So lets be rational, put our heads down and survive. Change is going to come into our lives it is inevitable.


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## MadCatX

So been chilling myself here on the mountain. Im about 2 hours north of South Atlanta. My daughter works at a store one county over from Doughtery County (Albany Ga). If you look at Albany Ga on the map, and then Google Covid, you will get an idea of the concern we have here. 

One of my main offices is in Albany Ga. We shut down our offices and flipped our work force to work remotely. This was prior to them shutting down Atlanta. We are all under 12am curfew here. All of our parks are closed, schools cancelled. I got two HS seniors this year. 

This is very real, and life as we knew it prior to Covid is going to change much like it did after 9/11.

Thats not panic, or disbelief. It is fact. The world is working together now more then it ever has. People aren't going to be able to look at each other anymore and go to war as easily, because now we know we are all HUMAN. lol stay safe. Bonnie and Clyde say hi, they all good and been chilling.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I had heard it was Zpack....Zymectin not Ivormectin. But maybe people are using that too. Yikes. Yeah not good.


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## jschies

Zithromax Z-PAK (azithromycin) is a semi-synthetic macrolide antibiotic.
Zpacks are being used with the malaria medicine. Ivermectin is being looked at separately as a cure. 
I am paying attention to cures and treatments. My son is an EMT--he is invincible of course. And he is allergic to Z-Packs!


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## Sfgwife

jschies said:


> Zithromax Z-PAK (azithromycin) is a semi-synthetic macrolide antibiotic.
> Zpacks are being used with the malaria medicine. Ivermectin is being looked at separately as a cure.
> I am paying attention to cures and treatments. My son is an EMT--he is invincible of course. And he is allergic to Z-Packs!


The malaria meds are no joke. Paul came home with it when he went on a journey. They took the before and during meds too. But holy cow that actual he has it and take this one..... was bad. The side effects he had from all of it months and months later were nasty.


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## HoosierShadow

There are some reports out there stating that it was Ivermectin Pour On that was used in a lab test that killed the virus. It's crazy how people suddenly went crazy over Ivermectin and TSC stores had to pull all Ivermectin products from the shelves and website. 
I'm really kicking myself because when I went to TSC on Saturday I stopped at the cabinet and debated getting the 1L bottle of Ivermectin Pour On and thought nah, I'll wait until next week or so since we are paying bills this week.
That evening I saw the reports about Ivermectin flying off the shelves. Checked the website Saturday night and was going to go ahead and do order/pickup in store and forgot. Last night I checked and all ivermectin products were removed from TSC website. Ugh.
I ordered a bottle from Amazon this morning. We use it for mites, so it's definitely not something I want to be without.


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## CaramelKittey

Just thought this was an interesting graphic. Any thoughts?


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## Buck Naked Boers

Oh that’s interesting hoosiershadow. I just bought online and picked up at my tractor supply a bottle of ivermectin pour on this week.


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## Buck Naked Boers

jschies: yes! Zithromax! Sorry I was wrong!






This YouTube video was sobering today for me!


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## Tanya

So here in South Africa our municipalities have set up testing stations at our most central pharmacies. They are looking to see who is exposed and who is sick. If you display 4 out of 6 sympotoms you are confined with flu medication. If you display more you are hospitalised. 
As bad as our country is, we are tackling this head on. This desease is not interested in your race age hair color sexual orientation. 
I wish other countries could put together these mobile units.
Many mobile units actually go door to door in our dense areas.
Our rural areas now have mini hosputals set up for testing and treatment. 
I am proud of South Africa


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## Goats Rock

I finally have figured out how to keep unwanted (relatives) people from coming over to see my goats. It is not a petting zoo! I run a dairy, so I don't allow many in the barn. Especially certain relatives and their evil spawn. Now, because of Covid 19, no one is permitted to even come on the property! DH has health troubles and my goats cannot be exposed to people because the Dept. of Ag. doesn't know if Coronavirus could be in the milk if a doe actually caught it from a person! So, one good thing came from the quarantine! 

I can remain a hermit and it's finally socially acceptable!


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## Harriet_and_Hens

Debi I was going to text you today to let you know that since we're having to close our store early these days, I could come over and help you during all of your kidding madness this month.. haha I guess I'll stay away. But seriously, if you do need help do not hesitate to ask! You know I love all of your babies


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## Buck Naked Boers

Tanya yes sounds like South Africa has a good plan in place!


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## Tanya

Thank you Buck Naked. We also have the most vicious army. If you defy lock down they will be doing some knock down. But its better that way.


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## toth boer goats

It is all so crazy out there.

Pulling Ivomec is ridiculous too.

Dare we say, marshmallow bunnies cures the virus too, it would be off the shelves with that hearsay approach.


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## ksalvagno

toth boer goats said:


> Dare we say, marshmallow bunnies cures the virus too, it would be off the shelves with that hearsay approach.


I'm heading to the store now!


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## toth boer goats

:heeheehighfive)


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## Tanya

No not marshmallow bunnies! If those go. What am I going to do for midnight snacks!


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## toth boer goats

:buttheads: 

I agree.


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## Tanya

Cant they take castor oil for humans off the shelves.


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## Goats Rock

Hey, Samantha! If I run into difficulties, I will call you. "Social distancing" is no problem in the barn! The does due are pretty well spread out! Thank you!


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## HoosierShadow

LOL well could you imagine if it were Animal Crackers? Our goats would be raising hell-o! lol

It's definitely crazy out there.

Tanya, I am so glad South Africa is taking precautions and trying to keep it from spreading.

It was gorgeous here today it felt like an early summer day. My daughter had online class from 9a-12p, hour break, then we went out and fixed a fence that divides the back of our little place - it is lousy welded fence in bad shape next to old strong cattle fence (very old). Basically all on the ground and wasn't attached (ugh, hubby). So we got it fixed, attached to t-posts. My arm issue is at a max with pain in my elbow down to my wrist  I had some more big projects to work on tomorrow weather permitting, but if it's still ouchy I'll take it easy. I need to resume therapy, but worried about bringing the virus home - last thing we need is hubby not being able to go to work.

This came up on my facebook memories today from last year. This is where I would have been this past weekend. I am one of those little 'specks' on the grass by the finish line lol First weekend in April is always a big deal...but most weekends are like this if it's not raining. Missing my spring job/hangout = 'home away from home' very much.


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## Oliveoil

It was hot here. For this time of year anyway. 75 degrees and humid. We were supposed to get rain last night and places east and south were supposed to get damaging winds and hail. Gotta love those spring storms!


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## Goats Rock

I'm starting to get rather irked at my community. (County). There are more people on the roads now than ever, and people gathering on the old rail bed (aka greenway trail). The local bar has carry out only, but is allowing people to consume the beer on their patio by the river. 50-100 folks. 

We only have 98,000 in the entire county, so theoretically, we could stop the spread if, everyone would just stay home. Fraud or not, people are dying from this and I don't want to be one of them! ( I never was a good rule follower, but this is kind of serious!) 

I hope you all are safe!


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> The word "eventually" would be an exaggeration in the cases I'm talking about. And quite honestly, at the risk of sounding heartless, I am rather hopeful that some bug takes my dad sooner than this cancer he's going through. A long, slow, torturous crawl is not a good way to meet death. I can think of a few people I would rather have seen go six months sooner from an opportunistic pathogen than from the things that eventually killed them. That's the blessing and the curse of living in an age where we can buy miracles. We can keep the pathogens at bay for so long that the folks who would have met a somewhat more merciful death a few months earlier are now strung out to the bitter end to die of the disease that made them vulnerable to those pathogens in the first place. It is difficult to strike a good balance between quantity of life and quality of life. It's also difficult to judge precisely what killed someone when they have many things going wrong at once.


I just want to say that I do not think you are heartless. My mother was in bed and only able to ingest liquids for a year. When I got the call that she had died, "Thank god." were the first words out of my mouth.
Do I miss her? Yes! Am I happier for her than sad for myself? Yes.
Right now we are dealing with my husband's 95yo mother who has dementia. When the home she is in announced their extreme measures to keep the virus out I was like, why?
I am *NOT* talking about assisted living homes where relatively healthy people who just cannot take care of themselves live. I am talking about people who's quality of life is zero.
It is so much worse for her now since we cannot visit and her roommate's family pulled her out. So I can only imagine that she is lying in bed all day being woken for meals and showers. No more group activities either.
Okay, down off soapbox. (Maybe I should have posted that rant in pet peeves.)

I do take this very seriously. What gets us through is a bit of humor and the hope that the changes and challenges we all face will make us better people on the other side.

But I also agree that the media is spreading unnecessary alarm. Their job is about ratings and $$$$. There is a major network that runs ads about "truth and reality" etc. All the while there is ominous music playing as images of the virus float around in the background.


----------



## HoosierShadow

Goats Rock said:


> I'm starting to get rather irked at my community. (County). There are more people on the roads now than ever, and people gathering on the old rail bed (aka greenway trail). The local bar has carry out only, but is allowing people to consume the beer on their patio by the river. 50-100 folks.
> 
> We only have 98,000 in the entire county, so theoretically, we could stop the spread if, everyone would just stay home. Fraud or not, people are dying from this and I don't want to be one of them! ( I never was a good rule follower, but this is kind of serious!)
> 
> I hope you all are safe!


That is frustrating for sure. We live out on a busy country road in horse farm country - there is a small community of houses on this little part of the road, and beyond that in both directions - farms.
We live next door to a busy restaurant - in fact it's very popular - people come to eat there from all over the country. They are super busy through the weekends and off and on during the day. It's supposed to be phone order/carry out, curbside or drive thru only in our state. I don't know if people are going inside, or if an employee comes out to take their order, but I have seen a LOT of people sitting around outside waiting. They tend to come in small groups, and stay away from other groups from what I can see. I want to see the restaurant do well, but I wish people were not getting out of their cars. Not only to protect each other, but to protect the employees.

Expecting severe storms in the next hour or two. Tornado watch until 2am (almost 11pm right now). I need to go out and check on babies - my husband and daughter banded her 4H wether tonight. Poor sweet boy. We were told there should be summer shows, but they may be pushing them back from starting in June to July. Apparently county fairs are planning to reschedule, and our fair is in consideration of moving dates as well. With everything else being cancelled, we at least hope to get some shows in even if they start late. 
It's been tough though, knowing if we need to start getting them in show condition, do we keep babies for showing or not, etc. We need to make some good dividers for our trailer and do some work on it. But... I don't have the extra $$ for those projects right now.


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## Tanya

This virus is driving the world into a state of financial frenzy. It is scary.


----------



## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> I just want to say that I do not think you are heartless. My mother was in bed and only able to ingest liquids for a year. When I got the call that she had died, "Thank god." were the first words out of my mouth.
> Do I miss her? Yes! Am I happier for her than sad for myself? Yes.
> Right now we are dealing with my husband's 95yo mother who has dementia. When the home she is in announced their extreme measures to keep the virus out I was like, why?
> I am *NOT* talking about assisted living homes where relatively healthy people who just cannot take care of themselves live. I am talking about people who's quality of life is zero.
> It is so much worse for her now since we cannot visit and her roommate's family pulled her out. So I can only imagine that she is lying in bed all day being woken for meals and showers. No more group activities either.
> Okay, down off soapbox. (Maybe I should have posted that rant in pet peeves.)
> 
> I do take this very seriously. What gets us through is a bit of humor and the hope that the changes and challenges we all face will make us better people on the other side.
> 
> But I also agree that the media is spreading unnecessary alarm. Their job is about ratings and $$$$. There is a major network that runs ads about "truth and reality" etc. All the while there is ominous music playing as images of the virus float around in the background.


I'm sorry about your mother-in-law. There are so many tragic stories of people dying alone right now because of quarantine measures. I know its an attempt to keep folks alive, but in some ways it's almost cruel. Isolation, and worse, the thought of possibly never seeing friends or family again, can be far more terrifying than death. At what point must we consider human dignity? Or does preservation of existence supercede all other considerations of life? To me, life encompasses far more than mere existence. Every human and animal dies, but in my mind, how one meets death is more important than when one meets death. In some cases, are quarantines preserving life or are they merely preserving existence? Life and existence obviously intersect (one can't have life without existence) but on the other hand it is possible to exist without life, and is there any benefit to that? There are more ethical considerations at stake than mere length of days.

I visited my parents last weekend and we had a great time. My other siblings and their kids visited earlier in the week. Does this pose a risk to my dad? Yes it does. But my dad said he'd far rather take that risk and enjoy the end of his life than spend an indefinite amount of time in solitary confinement for fear of contracting a deadly germ from a family member. In this current climate, I am SO grateful my dad is not in an assisted care facility.


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## Tanya

I agree. Isolation of ill and aged is cruel. It is probably the fastest killer of people. 
On the other spectrum the isolation also exposes vulnerable people to abuse. This without a way to call for help. Here we have such a high rate of domestic violence and abuse. 
It is really sad.


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## Tanya

Oh yay. South Africa just announced that our lockdown is extended to 30 April 2020. I am so looking forward to another three weeks without my family.


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## CaramelKittey

Studies have shown that people in nursing homes are much happier with a companion. Even a non-human one! A study was done a few years ago where they gave a few people in various nursing homes one parakeet each to take care of. Those with parakeets were much happier and more content when they had a bird companion to love and care for.  I would hope those with family in nursing homes can at least talk through video chat, or give them something to keep them happy and occupied. If you can video chat with any family you have in nursing homes, you are great! It can’t be easy to be alone..


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## Goats Rock

Tanya, so sorry you still are isolated. Hopefully the time passes quickly for you! 
I miss my mom, she died in 2013, and DH's mom died last Sept. at age 98, plus our dads have been gone for years. But, as much as they are missed, we are fortunate that we don't have to worry about their health during these scary times. Worrying about dh is enough of a job!


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## luvmyherd

Sadly, with the dementia his mom does not remember calls nor face chats. But they seem to set of something in her brain that reminds her that she has been *abandoned*. Then he is deluged with phone calls from her demanding to know where she is and why. She cries and tells him he has kicked her to the curb. She offers us all of her money if we will take her in. (Impossible for many reasons but she is too fragile physically; we do not have the skills.) She calls to announce that she is well and has regained her memory and needs us to pick her up. She actually caused the place to be raided when she got a hold of a cell phone and called 911 to say she was being held hostage.:imok: So, for the time being we are just making due with calling to check on her but not talk to her. They did tell us that when she lost her roommate she also the the television. We are going to get one to her but are not sure the best way to do it. I think we will see if Best Buy is delivering.
Kind of funny about the money; we have control anyway. Don't know why she remembers she has money. Still, every time we visit there I feel like we are in a *no kill* shelter.
We decided that since we are stuck home we would raise some meat birds at least. But there has been a rush on chicks by people in the same situation.


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## happybleats

Our locals are doing a "Going on a bear hunt" game. Residents are putting bears in their window so parents can drive their children around and find the bears. Sort of a scavenger hunt. I thought that was a fun idea. 

If you never read the story..go grab it..its a fun entertaining book my kids and now grandkids love.


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## happybleats

Tanya..hang in there..in the very least you have us here!!


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## toth boer goats

Hang in there, we know how hard this is for many. :bighug:


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## CaramelKittey

luvmyherd said:


> Sadly, with the dementia his mom does not remember calls nor face chats. But they seem to set of something in her brain that reminds her that she has been *abandoned*. Then he is deluged with phone calls from her demanding to know where she is and why. She cries and tells him he has kicked her to the curb. She offers us all of her money if we will take her in. (Impossible for many reasons but she is too fragile physically; we do not have the skills.) She calls to announce that she is well and has regained her memory and needs us to pick her up. She actually caused the place to be raided when she got a hold of a cell phone and called 911 to say she was being held hostage.:imok: So, for the time being we are just making due with calling to check on her but not talk to her. They did tell us that when she lost her roommate she also the the television. We are going to get one to her but are not sure the best way to do it. I think we will see if Best Buy is delivering.
> Kind of funny about the money; we have control anyway. Don't know why she remembers she has money. Still, every time we visit there I feel like we are in a *no kill* shelter.
> We decided that since we are stuck home we would raise some meat birds at least. But there has been a rush on chicks by people in the same situation.


I totally understand that. Even if you can't really talk to her, I think it's great that you do your best to care for her, and willingly try your best to get her what she needs out of love. You're setting a great example as to what we need to see more of in times like these. Less hoarding, and more helping others. (thumbup)


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## Tanya

Aw you guys. :bighug:


----------



## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> Seriously?? When are people going to learn that self-medicating with non-approved drugs, outside the supervision of a doctor, particularly for a virus that is deadly to only a small fraction of those infected, is a really, really BAD idea!! Apparently in some areas of Iran, more people have died from quack remedies than from coronavirus. I know ivermectin is a safe drug, but all drugs can have unexpected side-effects, particularly if you have certain underlying health problems or are on some other kind of medication that could react with it. Even if ivermectin were an effective treatment, no one knows what dosage, or if it needs to be combined with something else to work, etc. This is classic panic reaction.


Ivermectin is killing worms, right? Not viruses.


Damfino said:


> ... it will be interesting to see what Sweden's outcome is. They aren't practicing the lockdown measures in place all over the rest of Europe and so far they aren't having worse outcomes from COVID-19, or a faster increase in cases or deaths.


I cannot prove it, but some signs are hinting that the statistics is wrong. Apparently, people above 70 years, and people needing special care, like those having Down's Syndrome, who die from the virus infection are not reported!!! 
:imok:


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## Trollmor

CaramelKittey said:


> Just thought this was an interesting graphic. Any thoughts?
> View attachment 177919


Interesting. But this Corona affects also us far away from any vote box in the USA.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> Dare we say, marshmallow bunnies cures the virus too, it would be off the shelves with that hearsay approach.


:funnytech:


----------



## Trollmor

Tanya said:


> No not marshmallow bunnies! If those go. What am I going to do for midnight snacks!


Chips with goat cheese?


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## CaramelKittey

Trollmor said:


> Interesting. But this Corona affects also us far away from any vote box in the USA.


That is true. But the timing of the Coronavirus is just so strange. Why now?


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## Trollmor

CaramelKittey said:


> Studies have shown that people in nursing homes are much happier with a companion. Even a non-human one! A study was done a few years ago where they gave a few people in various nursing homes one parakeet each to take care of. Those with parakeets were much happier and more content when they had a bird companion to love and care for.  I would hope those with family in nursing homes can at least talk through video chat, or give them something to keep them happy and occupied. If you can video chat with any family you have in nursing homes, you are great! It can't be easy to be alone..


Even a pot plant can do it, even if an animal is more effective.


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## CaramelKittey

Trollmor said:


> Even a pot plant can do it, even if an animal is more effective.


Yep! Just having anything to keep you busy. It helps a great deal.


----------



## Trollmor

Sorry for all the entries; I thought it easier for you, since the topics are a bit different.

Somebody said "We are not at war!". I disagree. This is a war, and the enemy is invisible!


----------



## Damfino

Trollmor said:


> Ivermectin is killing worms, right? Not viruses.


The chemical is also is effective against certain bacteria and viruses. In fact, I believe it's recommended as a topical for certain fungal and bacterial skin infections. However, I don't think anyone is sure whether it works against an internal virus if you ingest it.



Trollmor said:


> I cannot prove it, but some signs are hinting that the statistics is wrong. Apparently, people above 70 years, and people needing special care, like those having Down's Syndrome, who die from the virus infection are not reported!!!
> :imok:


Nobody's reports are very accurate in any country. And as I said earlier, when there are many things going wrong at once, it's hard to nail down one exact cause of death. What I find interesting is that Sweden's case load has not already grown exponentially and spiraled completely out of control. Maybe it's too early to tell, but it begs the question of whether social distancing is actually making any difference at all. Would we have nearly the exact same number of illnesses with or without all these extreme measures and mandates? It's impossible to know.

Last night our medical guru, Dr. Fauci, predicted that he expects total coronavirus deaths to be under 60,000 by August. This is WAY down from the prediction of 100,000-250,000 deaths IF we enacted quarantine measures right away. He attributes this sharp decrease to the "outstanding" job Americans are doing at social distancing. But since the prediction models they were using took social distancing into account, and since lots of people aren't doing all that great a job of social distancing, we really can't credit our response. The prediction models were wrong, plain and simple. But I doubt we'll ever hear anyone admit it.


----------



## Damfino

CaramelKittey said:


> Just thought this was an interesting graphic. Any thoughts?
> View attachment 177919


No, these aren't coincidences: they are fabrications. Reason: Flu season comes in winter and thus straddles two years. Fudge these years either direction and you will always land on an election. And, let's be honest--some of these years are "fudged" pretty bad.

For example, the swine flu happened in 2009, but you *could* stretch it to 2010 if you wanted to be a little dishonest because it did drag out that long (although it had mostly fizzled out by then). We first learned about it in spring 2009. Most of the deaths happened in Sept/Oct 2009, as did most of the panicking. Schools were in session and young people were particularly vulnerable to that strain so there were a lot of parent/school meetings going on at that time. By Jan 2010 the excitement had died down because lots of people had either already gotten sick and recovered or had received the vaccine. So I've gotta call "false" on that election year graphic.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."


----------



## Sfgwife

Damfino said:


> I'm sorry about your mother-in-law. There are so many tragic stories of people dying alone right now because of quarantine measures. I know its an attempt to keep folks alive, but in some ways it's almost cruel. Isolation, and worse, the thought of possibly never seeing friends or family again, can be far more terrifying than death. At what point must we consider human dignity? Or does preservation of existence supercede all other considerations of life? To me, life encompasses far more than mere existence. Every human and animal dies, but in my mind, how one meets death is more important than when one meets death. In some cases, are quarantines preserving life or are they merely preserving existence? Life and existence obviously intersect (one can't have life without existence) but on the other hand it is possible to exist without life, and is there any benefit to that? There are more ethical considerations at stake than mere length of days.
> 
> I visited my parents last weekend and we had a great time. My other siblings and their kids visited earlier in the week. Does this pose a risk to my dad? Yes it does. But my dad said he'd far rather take that risk and enjoy the end of his life than spend an indefinite amount of time in solitary confinement for fear of contracting a deadly germ from a family member. In this current climate, I am SO grateful my dad is not in an assisted care facility.


LOVE this! So beautifully said.


----------



## Goats Rock

Everyone is trying the social distance thing, etc. So, our county sheriff (been in office 30+ yrs) got with health dept and convinced them that the golf courses should open! Why? Because he and his lawyer cronies golf every Wed. (Along with the judges!). So, I guess social distancing is only for the commoners, elected officials are immune? (This is not meant to be political, only very irked that people are really trying to do what they are told will help prevent more deaths.)


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

Today I was working at my dining room table (I'm fortunate that my job allows me to work remotely) and I was listening to our local news cast. And they announced with great gravity that the the number of infections had reached 3922 in North Carolina. So, out of curiosity I asked Dr. Google what the population of NC was and as of 2018 it was 10,380,000. So, I did the math and found that it was 0.0003778. Converted to percentages that means that 0.04% of the population of North Carolina is infected. That is four one hundredths of one percent.


----------



## HoosierShadow

Interesting facts IheartGoats! That is a lot of people, so the numbers are good IMO. 
Googling it states Kentucky has around 4.6 million.
Currently 1,693 confirmed cases and 90 deaths, so if I'm correct that would be 0.03% confirmed cases.
Biggest confirmed cases today at 242. They said that 464 people have fully recovered. 
So... 464 + 90 = 554 with an 'end' status. Interesting, especially the confirmed fully recovered cases. 
I really hope that this social distancing pays off, but so far I don't know... especially with the increased positive cases. 

We're doing our part and trying to stay home. I did do my grocery shopping this morning. The store has a limit of 1 person per cart and have to enter on one side of the store and exit on the other (BIG store). 
Our store appears to be rebounding more this week. I think the only thing they really have limits on now are ground beef, paper products and maybe some of the cleaning supplies. Meat dept was well stocked, they actually had some dry pinto beans on the shelf. Noodles, rice, ramen noodles, etc. When I made my way to the paper aisle towards the end of my shopping trip they had a decent selection of toilet paper and paper towels, some cleaning products have returned to the shelves as well, but no bleach or hand soap. Thankfully we are set on all that kind of stuff - I did pick up toilet paper for my kids bathroom since I sent the extra paper we had to my Dad.
He told me they still can not find toilet paper where they live, so I am thankful I sent them a care package.

Ivermectin has resumed it's place on shelves. Figures since I ordered a bottle of pour on from Amazon - but at least I didn't have to leave to go get it. 

Gas is really cheap right now, as I am sure it may be in most places? It was $1.39 when I was in town today. I really should take the truck and fill it up - needs to be driven as it's not good for it to sit so much.


----------



## Damfino

Goats Rock said:


> Everyone is trying the social distance thing, etc. So, our county sheriff (been in office 30+ yrs) got with health dept and convinced them that the golf courses should open! Why? Because he and his lawyer cronies golf every Wed. (Along with the judges!). So, I guess social distancing is only for the commoners, elected officials are immune? (This is not meant to be political, only very irked that people are really trying to do what they are told will help prevent more deaths.)


I fully support golf courses being open! All forms of recreation that can be done at a social distance should be encouraged as much as possible in every state. There's no reason why people can't keep a safe distance at the golf course. Around here golfers either walk or ride with one person per cart instead of two. As long as the sheriff and his buddies aren't keeping the golf course open only for themselves but for everyone I see no problem. If I were a golfer and my course were closed, I'd be raising a ruckus too! As it is, I'm a horseback rider and I'm on the board of my local saddle club. Our club is OPEN!


----------



## Tanya

At least you are aloud to keep busy recreationally. Here EVERYTHING recreational is closed. Golf courses here are only for our wealthy so us common folk are not bothered. 
What I do miss is the botanical garden.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Yes Social Distancing is working. What we need to stop & think about is...what did I touch today? Who else touchedit?who sneezed on or near what I touched?
Outside is FANTASTIC! Just dont TOUCH anything with bare hands. Wear gloves. Being 6 feet from someone should be mandatory, even on beaches.
Viruses mutate. They are not the original strand. As it moves through the population it can change in its effect. How many times do you catch the flu? More than once. Thats the fear this virus is causing. We Dont Know ...we dont have the answers! So staying away from groups , staying a large distance apart, will help. So please. Stay distant, stay clean, and stay healthy.


----------



## CaramelKittey

Our stores around here are well-stocked, but our Home Depots only allow 50 people in a building at a time. In Walmart, you are required to wear a face mask. I believe they are making it mandatory in NJ..

@Damfino That is an interesting thought to bring up about swine flu. Of course, every election year something did happen, but you brought up an incredibly valid point of view. By the way, that was a fantastic quote. I just happen to believe about 90% of the news source I got it from.


----------



## Tanya

Did you know that all flu types are genetically called CORONA? The only things that make them sound different are the names they are given. Swine flu is because some fool ate conraminated pigs meat. Bird flu the same. The other viruses as well. But the coding for all these viruses is exactly the same albeit one cromosome - to put it in an undrstandable biological way.
The strain is just from a different animal source.
Just imagine they called this the bat virus!


----------



## Goats Rock

Im politically incorrect in what I've been calling it! My complaint about the golf course is the lack of social distancing. I figure if the sheriff and his cronies need exercise so badly, they could go in their backyard and do jumping jacks! :heehee: We don't have big towns or high rise buildings. The hospital is 4 stories high and senior citizen housing has like 8 stories in an old apartment building. That's it! Everyone has a yard.


----------



## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Did you know that all flu types are genetically called CORONA? The only things that make them sound different are the names they are given. Swine flu is because some fool ate conraminated pigs meat. Bird flu the same. The other viruses as well. But the coding for all these viruses is exactly the same albeit one cromosome - to put it in an undrstandable biological way.
> The strain is just from a different animal source.
> Just imagine they called this the bat virus!


Flu isn't genetically called corona. It's called influenza. Several common cold viruses are types of corona and other common cold viruses are rhinovirus. There are many strains of influenza. It mutates regularly and old strains eventually become extinct as new ones pop up. However, it's relatively quick and easy to make vaccines for the new strains since, as you pointed out, they are genetically similar to old ones. New flu vaccines don't need to go through testing and safety trials since everything except the targeted virus is the same.

The coronavirus requires an entirely new vaccine made from scratch since we've never made one before. Researchers are saying that the novel coronavirus does not appear to mutate nearly as quickly or change as much as influenza viruses, so vaccinating for one strain (or getting sick with it) will give protection for all the current strains, possibly for quite some time.


----------



## Damfino

CaramelKittey said:


> Our stores around here are well-stocked, but our Home Depots only allow 50 people in a building at a time. In Walmart, you are required to wear a face mask. I believe they are making it mandatory in NJ..


We went to Pueblo for shopping yesterday for the first time since February. Half the people were wearing masks. I thought about wearing my executioner's hood but refrained. Walmart was PACKED! I've never seen it so jammed except maybe certain days just before Christmas. It was stressful. Thankfully we needed only a few items. I was speaking to a friend after we got back and she said a week or two ago Walmart was limiting the number of customers at a time. I guess they gave up on that. I also think people in Colorado are weary of this farce. Hospitals are empty and some are even going bankrupt because they had to stop doing elective procedures. Doctors and nurses are being laid off. We have confirmed cases all over the state but few hospitalizations or deaths. I'm still of the opinion that Colorado's "big wave" happened back during ski season and we didn't even notice. Deaths were chalked up to seasonal flu and since no one was quarantining, and no one was panicking and stockpiling supplies for a coming emergency, there was no crisis. We're a relatively young and healthy state so it stands to reason that most folks who get/got sick are doing just fine.

I would not be surprised if the social distancing thing collapsed entirely pretty soon, regardless of what the authorities have to say. Businesses need to open. The ridiculous thing is that the other side of town from Walmart looked kind of like a ghost town. It's filled with small businesses, all of which are currently closed. People can't shop there so they all swarm to the big box stores. If you're worried about viral spread, small stores are actually a lot safer because far fewer people go into them at the same time! There was no sense in closing down the mom and pop shops.



> @Damfino That is an interesting thought to bring up about swine flu. Of course, every election year something did happen, but you brought up an incredibly valid point of view. By the way, that was a fantastic quote. I just happen to believe about 90% of the news source I got it from.


It's almost impossible for something NOT to happen every election year because election years happen every other year. Besides, what happens the year before an election still affects the following election year so it still counts as an election year. It has nothing to do with the source. The person who created the meme could completely believe in their hypothesis and they'd be correct and incorrect all at the same time. It's a very simple, watered down version of the Bible Code. It works because math, but that doesn't mean it's true or correct.


----------



## healthyishappy

Honestly I would not even be surprised if there was no coronavirus, and people literally just had the flu and were making it worse. I don't know how many people know that your thoughts are POWERFUL.

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/power-of-thought-to-heal-1.html
Obviously this link isn't about Covid 19, it's just an idea.


----------



## Damfino

Goats Rock said:


> Im politically incorrect in what I've been calling it! My complaint about the golf course is the lack of social distancing. I figure if the sheriff and his cronies need exercise so badly, they could go in their backyard and do jumping jacks! :heehee: We don't have big towns or high rise buildings. The hospital is 4 stories high and senior citizen housing has like 8 stories in an old apartment building. That's it! Everyone has a yard.


I don't know... I think people NEED some form of social interaction in addition to exercise. No one wants to do jumping jacks in their backyard (I don't!). All of those guys on the golf course are probably still further apart than they would be in their offices or in the grocery store. Plus, they're breathing fresh air rather than anything recirculated. They should be fine. I have a hard time judging golf as a "rich man's sport" when I myself ride horses. If anything is for rich people, it's owning horses! I'm personally not going to fault anyone for how they handle the current crisis. It's unprecedented. And if the sheriff needs to unwind on the golf course with his buddies, well, it's better than going off the rails and getting trigger happy. Mental health is just as important as physical health.


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## healthyishappy

Damfino said:


> I would not be surprised if the social distancing thing collapsed entirely pretty soon, regardless of what the authorities have to say. Businesses need to open. The ridiculous thing is that the other side of town from Walmart looked kind of like a ghost town. It's filled with small businesses, all of which are currently closed. People can't shop there so they all swarm to the big box stores. If you're worried about viral spread, small stores are actually a lot safer because far fewer people go into them at the same time! There was no sense in closing down the mom and pop shops.


Kinda messed up how they are shutting down small businesses but letting ones like Walmart stay open.


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## MellonFriend

Hey I am wondering if you guys who have goat kids for sale are seeing this whole thing affect your sales at all?


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## toth boer goats

MellonFriend said:


> Hey I am wondering if you guys who have goat kids for sale are seeing this whole thing affect your sales at all?


 Yes, I am seeing it.
Had buyers cancel goats who were on my waiting list.


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## ksalvagno

I had a buyer back out too.


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## Jessica84

I wasn’t having luck selling my kids, I even greatly reduced the price if someone just took all the does and that way I could just send the wethers to the sale. Nothing! So I loaded them all and took them to the sale. I usually average $150 a head, I got between $155-300 a head. The really sad part is I took down my craigslist add yesterday, I forgot to do it when I sold them, but people were calling left and right for the kids. So I kinda have mixed feelings about it. I could have gotten more for my kids but at the same time I didn’t have to deal with anyone. So you guys don’t give up just yet if you can help it. I’m not sure what the turning point was for these people calling after so long but hopefully the same happens with you guys


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## toth boer goats

It is frustrating.


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## CaramelKittey

We have been looking around to find a kitten we could save from a shelter, or one that needs re-homing, but the majority of the shelters are closed. All has to be done online..and you have to make an appointment to see the kitten/cat. It would be fine, but the processing, and applications, and waiting to hear back from the shelters takes forever..


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## Goats Rock

Around here, they just dump kittens on the side of the road. Shelter doesn't want them. Poor kitties. If I see them, I try and save them, but most are too young and well, cars and kittens- bad news.....


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## luvmyherd

Most of our cats have been dumped on us. People still have that *happy on the farm* mentality.

We actually saw some people when we went for our walk at the Dept of Ag today. Two women and a little boy with his scooter. They saw us and went way out and around looking down. I wanted to (but didn't) say, "Social distancing does not mean you cannot say 'hi' to your neighbor."

And this is the best so far for us. Our 21yo granddaughter was at the skate park, skating. There were a bunch of skaters there but just by virtue of the sport; they were always more than 6 feet apart and there were less than 10 of them.
Still, someone in the neighborhood called the police and reported them. The cops showed up and told them they had been reported and _*they*_ pointed out that they were staying more than 6 feet apart. There was a mother braiding her daughter's hair and one of the cops pointed out that they were not 6 feet apart. She pointed out that they live together and share the same toilet so probably have all the same germs.
The cops took it in stride, laughed, told them all to have a good, safe evening and left.
Big Brother much? (I mean the busybody; not the cops who were just doing their job.)


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## IHEARTGOATS

We've had an increase in inquiries about purchasing. We had someone drive all the way from TN to get a doe, and ended up buying 2. Sold my buck Valiant. I have deposits on 2 FF that are going to together with their kids after we dis-bud the kids. Have a buck kid sold.
We have people interested in does that I don't have anything for them.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> Big Brother much? (I mean the busybody; not the cops who were just doing their job.)


^ When there are stiff rules and regs, the Barney Fifes of the world crawl out of the woodwork.

Equine events all over the country have been canceled and I'm thinking "Why?" Horse safety dictates that you ride a horse length away from other horses (particularly ones that don't know each other). A horse length is around 8-10 feet. Sometimes people hang out closer than that, but not usually closer than 6 feet unless they are from the same family. So far our saddle club is still planning to run a team sorting clinic on May 15th. I sure hope if we hold it that we don't have any "Nosey Nancys" calling the sheriff on us. Don't people have better things to do?


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## 21goaties

CaramelKittey said:


> We have been looking around to find a kitten we could save from a shelter, or one that needs re-homing, but the majority of the shelters are closed. All has to be done online..and you have to make an appointment to see the kitten/cat. It would be fine, but the processing, and applications, and waiting to hear back from the shelters takes forever..


That is great!! 
Shelters need help right now. 
You can try to find a shelter here: https://www.aspca.org/adopt-pet/find-shelter
Or do an internet search for shelters near you.


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## Damfino

healthyishappy said:


> Honestly I would not even be surprised if there was no coronavirus, and people literally just had the flu and were making it worse. I don't know how many people know that your thoughts are POWERFUL.
> 
> http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/power-of-thought-to-heal-1.html
> Obviously this link isn't about Covid 19, it's just an idea.


I do believe one's outlook on life affects one's physical health for better or worse in myriad ways. It's one reason I think these lockdowns may actually be creating MORE coronavirus cases and causing a higher percentage of those cases to be serious. When people are stressed their immune systems don't work properly and they are more susceptible to disease. However, I don't think mental wellbeing is sufficient to prevent or cure all diseases. Lots of happy, well-adjusted, and positive people are killed by all manner of diseases every year.

That said, I don't think there is any evidence to support the idea that the novel coronavirus is related to the flu. It belongs to a different family of pathogens. There are billions or trillions of viruses and bacteria in the world, and influenza is actually one of the deadlier ones because it infects people so easily and mutates so rapidly. It's why we can't eradicate it no matter how hard we try! Saying that this new virus is "just the flu" is not really fair because the flu has historically caused some of the world's deadliest pandemics.

Also, there are thousands of researchers, doctors, and scientists at labs and universities all over the world who are studying the novel coronavirus. Can anyone really believe that not a single one of them would have identified it as a flu virus? If it were a flu virus, people who had it would be testing positive for flu (they're not) and we would already be well on our way to having a vaccine for it. I can't agree that it's another flu bug, and even if it were, I'm not sure it would necessarily be a very comforting thought.

The mercy with this coronavirus is that it does not seem to be affecting almost any children, whereas flu viruses do affect children, and sometimes even hit kids worse than adults. When you walk through graveyards, look at the ages of the people who died during the 1918-1919 flu pandemic. Sometimes every child in a family died that winter. That virus effectively put a stop to one of the nastiest wars in history because it sickened and killed so many soldiers there was hardly anyone left to fight. I'm kind of thankful that we're not dealing with a particularly devastating and vaccine-resistant strain of flu right now.


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## Sfgwife

Moers kiko boars said:


> Yes Social Distancing is working. What we need to stop & think about is...what did I touch today? Who else touchedit?who sneezed on or near what I touched?
> Outside is FANTASTIC! Just dont TOUCH anything with bare hands. Wear gloves. Being 6 feet from someone should be mandatory, even on beaches.
> Viruses mutate. They are not the original strand. As it moves through the population it can change in its effect. How many times do you catch the flu? More than once. Thats the fear this virus is causing. We Dont Know ...we dont have the answers! So staying away from groups , staying a large distance apart, will help. So please. Stay distant, stay clean, and stay healthy.


Strawberry farms are startin to open for pickin here.... i am not sure how i feel about that yet. I kinda need berries for jam but not sure i want to chance it. :/. Yea it is outside but like you said who was there before me.. ugh! And the berries are not a long season here.


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## Damfino

Sfgwife said:


> Strawberry farms are startin to open for pickin here.... i am not sure how i feel about that yet. I kinda need berries for jam but not sure i want to chance it. :/. Yea it is outside but like you said who was there before me.. ugh! And the berries are not a long season here.


Wash before you eat. And if you make jam you don't need to worry at all. The process kills viruses and bacteria (which is why canned goods have a long shelf life). It doesn't matter who picked over the field before you--U-Pick strawberries have still been handled by fewer people than anything in the produce section at the grocery store!


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## healthyishappy

MellonFriend said:


> Hey I am wondering if you guys who have goat kids for sale are seeing this whole thing affect your sales at all?


It's great for me. I have had over 6 calls on one goat. Finally sold him.


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## MellonFriend

Interesting that some of you are seeing an increase and others a decrease. I guess some people don't want more on their hands to deal with right now and others are wanting to get into goats because being more self sufficient looks like a good option right now.


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## ksalvagno

I think it also depends on where your area is on the corona virus curve. My area hasn't hit peak yet.


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## luvmyherd

Just popping to say


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## Tanya

Here we havent yet peaked. Our numbers are steady and widespread through all regions. We are really sticking to the lockdown very well.


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## Iluvlilly!

MellonFriend said:


> Hey I am wondering if you guys who have goat kids for sale are seeing this whole thing affect your sales at all?


Not for me!! A while ago I posted a doe for sale at 9:00pm and the next day at 3:00pm she was gone! They didnt even blink an eye at the price:coolmoves:


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## HoosierShadow

U PICK STRAWBERRIES?!?!?! I wish! We love strawberries. I would totally be up for that, but of course, not strawberry season here, I want to say June for us but not sure as it's been years since I've picked strawberries.

Goat sales... well, seems to be fairly good here from what I've heard from my friends.
We have 2 babies we're trying to sell currently, but one is for meat (sadly) as he had an umbilical infection that has left him with a hernia - a friend is going to buy him after we wean him. Bizarre though, as same issue with a doe kid, but I got her treated in time to keep the infection down, but still herniated. Have a buyer for her but he got laid off and is waiting for unemployment. I decided IF we get the stimulus check that is supposed to be coming... I'll contact vets and see about getting her fixed, unless said buyer gets his $$ before then. I'm guessing the crazy damp conditions when they were born (same day/different dams/different sires), I sprayed cords vs. dipping them, and that's the only thing I can think of causing it other than again, it was just so damp around that time with all the rain we'd been having.

I've had people asking if we have any does for sale, or any bucks. The downfall is, a lot of the buyers are not wanting to pay $$, they ware wanting cheap goats. Trying to explain that the 2 I mentioned above have issues - and are being offered at market price doesn't mean I am going to sell all our goats at market price. I had someone wanting to buy all the kids in the same picture for cheap, I'm like, no... your far from the price if/when we sell them lol.


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## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> The chemical is also is effective against certain bacteria and viruses. In fact, I believe it's recommended as a topical for certain fungal and bacterial skin infections. However, I don't think anyone is sure whether it works against an internal virus if you ingest it.


Thanks!


Damfino said:


> What I find interesting is that Sweden's case load has not already grown exponentially and spiraled completely out of control.


Well, they have actually said they do not report cases in elderly and nursing homes...


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## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> Walmart was PACKED!


I have also heard that the USA has a bad spreading of the virus. Here, people avoid close contact even outdoors.


Damfino said:


> Hospitals are empty and some are even going bankrupt


This is interesting to me! Here, the politicians decide about the finances of all tax-payed activities.


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## toth boer goats

I even dropped goat prices and they still think it is high. 
Frustrating when you have nice goats to sell and no one has any money to buy, because of the corona virus thing.


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## Ranger1

My goats are flying off the shelfs. Especially pregnant or milking does. Suppose it probably depends on the breed as well as location, since some of these people who are becoming preppers are need the dairy breeds for the milk.


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## bisonviewfarm

Interesting to see how the goat market is in different places. Here everyone wants milkers problem they don't want to pay anything for it. And they expect perfect udders for under $150 I've had my lamancha Boer cross and her 3 month old doelings for sale for a while now price is much lower than I'd usually ask. Problem is she hates the stand and will never be a milker so no one wants her.

Our towns still at 3 cases with a 134 people tested. People seem to not really care no one's following the stay at home order even if they're sick. Had a lady come in and dry cough all over the counter while I was grabbing her alchol last night so I had to quickly wipe everything down before the next customer. And the folks wearing gloves they never take off drive me nuts packing the germs from store to store.


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## CaramelKittey

I have heard the Stimulus Checks should be in everybody's bank accounts by April 19th.


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## CaramelKittey

21goaties said:


> That is great!!
> Shelters need help right now.
> You can try to find a shelter here: https://www.aspca.org/adopt-pet/find-shelter
> Or do an internet search for shelters near you.


Thank you! According to the website, cats are not available for adoption now. We are looking for orange tabbies that are somewhat close to the South Jersey area, and the ASPCA didn't have any unfortunately. We have been searching and visiting every shelter near us, and we must be checking PetFinder and Craigslist every day to find a kitten who needs a home. :haha:We think we found one we may be able to get on June 1st. Thanks for the link though!


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## 21goaties

CaramelKittey said:


> Thank you! According to the website, cats are not available for adoption now. We are looking for orange tabbies that are somewhat close to the South Jersey area, and the ASPCA didn't have any unfortunately. We have been searching and visiting every shelter near us, and we must be checking PetFinder and Craigslist every day to find a kitten who needs a home. :haha:We think we found one we may be able to get on June 1st. Thanks for the link though!


You're welcome! 
Wow, that is crazy! We have TONS of cats/kittens here that need homes.

I don't know where you are exactly, but I did a quick search and found these places if you haven't checked them already:

https://homewardboundnj.org/adopt/cats-for-adoption/
https://rescuekitty.org/adoption/adoptablepets/
https://randallsrescue.com/adoptable-cats-dogs-new-jersey/
http://beaconanimalrescue.org/adopt-cats/


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## CaramelKittey

21goaties said:


> You're welcome!
> Wow, that is crazy! We have TONS of cats/kittens here that need homes.
> 
> I don't know where you are exactly, but I did a quick search and found these places if you haven't checked them already:
> 
> https://homewardboundnj.org/adopt/cats-for-adoption/
> https://rescuekitty.org/adoption/adoptablepets/
> https://randallsrescue.com/adoptable-cats-dogs-new-jersey/
> http://beaconanimalrescue.org/adopt-cats/


Thank you! We go down to GA every year for Christmas to visit family so maybe we can adopt a kitten down there if we can't get one up here. Thanks for more links! We have tried Beacon but it is almost impossible to get in touch with them. I will definitely look at the other links! Thank you! :squish:


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## CaramelKittey

21goaties said:


> You're welcome!
> Wow, that is crazy! We have TONS of cats/kittens here that need homes.
> 
> I don't know where you are exactly, but I did a quick search and found these places if you haven't checked them already:
> 
> https://homewardboundnj.org/adopt/cats-for-adoption/





21goaties said:


> https://rescuekitty.org/adoption/adoptablepets/
> https://randallsrescue.com/adoptable-cats-dogs-new-jersey/
> http://beaconanimalrescue.org/adopt-cats/



I tried every single link and searched every cat and there weren't any orange tabby kittens..
Thank you so much for trying though! The more places and options we have the better. 
Apparently there is a high demand for orange tabbies and I have no idea why. 
Personally, I would take any kitten but my younger sister has her heart set on an orange tabby and it is a kitten for her. We are currently looking at a rescue called Cape-Atlantic Cats and they should have 2-3 orange tabbies ready for adoption by June 1st. We are trying to get on the waiting list and reserve a little kitty. We recently had some trouble with the agency because they don't tell you the names of the cats but they require a name on the application. We asked for the name of the cat but didn't get an answer so we sent in an application without a name. Even though we sent the application in first, the kitten went to somebody else. At least it should be in a happy home but it is very difficult to deal with most shelters and adoption agencies! ​


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## Tanya

If you were in South Africa I could place an Orange Tabby with you today. I am trying to home him for my sister in law. I am allergic to felines so I cant keep him. Otherwise he would be here already.


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## CaramelKittey

Tanya said:


> If you were in South Africa I could place an Orange Tabby with you today. I am trying to home him for my sister in law. I am allergic to felines so I cant keep him. Otherwise he would be here already.


Aww! Sorry you are allergic. I would definitely take him if it wasn't so expensive and hard on the kitty to travel by plane. I hope you find a fantastic home for him!


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## 21goaties

CaramelKittey said:


> I tried every single link and searched every cat and there weren't any orange tabby kittens..
> Thank you so much for trying though! The more places and options we have the better.
> Apparently there is a high demand for orange tabbies and I have no idea why.
> Personally, I would take any kitten but my younger sister has her heart set on an orange tabby and it is a kitten for her. We are currently looking at a rescue called Cape-Atlantic Cats and they should have 2-3 orange tabbies ready for adoption by June 1st. We are trying to get on the waiting list and reserve a little kitty. We recently had some trouble with the agency because they don't tell you the names of the cats but they require a name on the application. We asked for the name of the cat but didn't get an answer so we sent in an application without a name. Even though we sent the application in first, the kitten went to somebody else. At least it should be in a happy home but it is very difficult to deal with most shelters and adoption agencies! ​


Are you looking for a kitten that's still pretty young (like 2-3lbs) or one that's any age up to about a year old (when they are technically adults)? They still act like kittens until about 2 years old or so.  And of course they can be great pets at any age.
Maybe you can find more places to check here (there are thousands of results though, so you might want to narrow it down to a more specific area):
https://www.petfinder.com/animal-shelters-and-rescues/search/?location=NJ&shelter_name=&bystate=1


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## CaramelKittey

21goaties said:


> Are you looking for a kitten that's still pretty young (like 2-3lbs) or one that's any age up to about a year old (when they are technically adults)? They still act like kittens until about 2 years old or so.  And of course they can be great pets at any age.
> Maybe you can find more places to check here (there are thousands of results though, so you might want to narrow it down to a more specific area):
> https://www.petfinder.com/animal-shelters-and-rescues/search/?location=NJ&shelter_name=&bystate=1


Thank you! We checked all over Petfinder in areas within about 100 miles of our house. We are trying to avoid getting any cats out of state though. We are looking for a kitten preferably under 4-5 months old. The younger the better because we want to train it not to be scared of our loud donkey, our gentle giant dog, and our other cat who needs a companion. Our indoor cat is turning 1 year old on April 25th. :hbd:


----------



## Damfino

Trollmor said:


> I have also heard that the USA has a bad spreading of the virus.


Depends how you look at it. We lead the world in number of confirmed cases (the only number you ever hear about in the news), but when you adjust for population we're at #10 with only 72 deaths per million people. Spain leads the world with 380 deaths per million.



> This is interesting to me! Here, the politicians decide about the finances of all tax-payed activities.


In the U.S., hospitals here are only partially supported by taxpayers. We have a very strange mix of public and private funding for medical care in this country.


----------



## Damfino

Trollmor said:


> Well, they have actually said they do not report cases in elderly and nursing homes...


There is a certain amount of sense in that. People don't go to nursing homes because it's a nice place to retire. They don't go there with the expectation of being cured or of ever returning to independent living. No. People go to nursing homes to die. That's the harsh reality of it. Most who go there are already dying of a disease that no one has yet been able to cure--old age. Whether these deaths should be counted in coronavirus death tolls or not is a matter for debate and I see legitimate arguments on both sides.


----------



## luvmyherd

IHEARTGOATS said:


> Today I was working at my dining room table (I'm fortunate that my job allows me to work remotely) and I was listening to our local news cast. And they announced with great gravity that the the number of infections had reached 3922 in North Carolina. So, out of curiosity I asked Dr. Google what the population of NC was and as of 2018 it was 10,380,000. So, I did the math and found that it was 0.0003778. Converted to percentages that means that 0.04% of the population of North Carolina is infected. That is four one hundredths of one percent.


Yes, I *like* the real numbers which do not scare people enough. After reading this I checked my county of 742,500. There are 293 cases and 16 deaths. I did not need to do the exact math to know that is a pretty small percentage.
I have been waiting for some actual per capita numbers but again, not scary enough for the news. (Thanks Damfino)
This is not to say that I am taking this lightly or want everything *back to normal* too soon. I just appreciate being treated as if I am intelligent enough to handle the facts. I would like some intense broad range testing so we could get more accurate numbers on who is infected and who is already immune.


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## Damfino

Something that has irked me a lot lately are false statements about vaccines and immunity from experts who know better. I've read several articles recently that say we'll all have to remain in hiding until a vaccine is developed. They pay some lip service to people who are immune by virtue of getting sick but always follow it up with "but we don't know how long immunity lasts." It's a disgusting way to make people feel vulnerable and afraid even if they in fact have nothing to fear. Doctors who are _working on vaccines_ have been quoted making statements like this!

Either the press is getting the quotes wrong or someone is fear mongering big time in order to sell vaccines to a gullible and uneducated public. Anyone with a basic knowledge of vaccines knows that if people can be reinfected shortly after recovery from illness, the possibility of an effective vaccine is dead in the water. Vaccines are only as good as the body's ability to create antibodies.

Neither of the above statements is untrue, but when placed side-by-side it implies that natural immunity may not be possible--that only vaccination will provide long-term protection, which of course is a complete falsehood. "Experts" are perfectly capable of deceiving the public without even having to resort to outright lies. I'm not against vaccinations. In fact, I think it would be wonderful if a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine became available in the future. However, I'm not ok with scaring people into falsely believing that getting sick and recovering won't protect them but getting a vaccine will.


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## Moers kiko boars

I agree Damfino:up: with alot of what you said. It is dificult to word "caution" to all the varying degrees of intelligence and Personalities in our U.S.A. The defiance of individuals ( because of "its a conspiracy") is amazing to me. Why not err on the side of concern versus the deaths caused by stupidity or self centeredness. Yes, alot of the info is conflicting because of ratings on the channel rating T.V fiasco ..for the almighty $. Isnt it eye opening to not want to spread anything? Isnt it amazing how dis-connected families have become? Why Do WE have to Blame someone,or something, when people are dieing? Why do we have to accuse a conspiracy when our neighbors are dieing? The important thing to remember,,it can cause you to lose your life. It can be taken home to your family. Its invisible. And its deadly. One death is too many! Many people, Drs. Nurses, Police Officers, Firemen, E.M.Ts, all these are people begging us to stay home and give them a chance to sleep for a few hours. 
Reconnect with our basis of life. Our family. Our home. Our selfs. Just be! Pray for people you dont know, pray for no more deaths, pray for a cure. Be a part of the CURE..not the Problem. Regardless of what T.V. says.


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## Damfino

WARNING: Long-winded philosophical point of view, not necessarily for debate but for the purpose of pondering...



Moers kiko boars said:


> Why do we have to accuse a conspiracy when our neighbors are dieing?


The problem here is that conspiracy theories become tempting when you and your neighbors are NOT dying. It's hard to take a disease too seriously when half the people you know came down with it and all of them recovered without incident. I know only two people were bad enough to go to the hospital and both are now recovered. But when the news only tells of death tolls (not recoveries) while hospitals all around you are basically empty, you quickly become jaded and start looking for conspiracies. I personally don't think it's a conspiracy because there's no central intelligence behind what's happening. I think it's a panic fueled by media sensationalism that plays upon people's worst fears and puts death tolls front and center along with every single anomalous death that occurs to otherwise healthy young people with the message that "This could happen to YOU!"



> The important thing to remember, it can cause you to lose your life. It can be taken home to your family. Its invisible. And its deadly. One death is too many!


I'm not a fan of the "One death too many" argument for much anything. This statement is used to justify every possible curtailment of freedom in history, and it's never equally applied. It is used to justify banning everything from guns, to paint thinner, to trampolines, to pain meds, to diving boards. We claim, "One death is too many!" while conveniently overlooking that fact that the top three causes of preventable death in the U.S. are due to poor personal life choices: #1 Smoking, #2 Poor diet/physical inactivity, and #3 Alcohol. Where are the mass societal movements to protest these unnecessary deaths and where is the governmental crack-down? It's interesting to me that cigarettes, alcohol, and weed are considered "essential goods" in this time of crisis even though these things kill far and away more people than the most dire predictions of coronavirus, and that most coronavirus complications are due to smoking and drinking. Where is the outrage? Where are the calls for reform?

Here's another one for us to consider: Most auto accidents are caused by excessive speed. We have the technology to restrict all cars from being able to drive over the posted speed limit, and limits could even be temporarily lowered due to weather or traffic conditions, yet no one is proposing we install this simple technology that would save lives because... freedom. We want the ability to speed in our car even if it risks unnecessary death to ourselves and others.

And then there is the problem in which saving lives has unforeseen costs. Well-meaning women around the turn of the last century thought that one alcohol death was too many so they worked hard and brought this country Prohibition. They did not realize that their well-meaning act would empower organized crime resulting in massacres and widespread corruption among police and government officials. They didn't know people would start killing themselves and others with dangerous "bathtub gin" stirred up in their basements. They never envisioned how many decent, honest families would go into the bootlegging business to make a little profit on the side. The plan to save lives backfired and ended up costing lives and causing more problems than it fixed. Prohibition was scrapped only a couple of decades after it passed and should stand as a lesson to us all about the Law of Unintended Consequences.



> Many people, Drs. Nurses, Police Officers, Firemen, E.M.Ts, all these are people begging us to stay home and give them a chance to sleep for a few hours.
> Reconnect with our basis of life. Our family. Our home. Our selfs. Just be! Pray for people you dont know, pray for no more deaths, pray for a cure. Be a part of the CURE..not the Problem. Regardless of what T.V. says.


I'm good with this, but we must to keep in mind that doctors, nurses, police, etc. all have "essential" paying jobs. They are in a comfortable position from which to chide others to "Stay home!" What they do not consider is that many people cannot stay home much longer. They need to eat. They need to pay rent. They have utility bills. They have medical bills. Families _will_ lose their homes because of this. People without "essential" jobs cannot remain on lockdown much longer without suffering from myriad other problems that are more pressing and more dangerous than coronavirus.

Right now there are people who are unable to get "elective" cancer screenings, biopsies, radiation treatments, etc. A delay of 2-3 weeks might be ok (which is why they are considered "elective," but if we keep delaying we'll soon see a rise in many preventable deaths because people can't get the care they need now. When things eventually open up we'll have a huge backlog of people needing these "elective" procedures, creating further delays and more deaths.

It's only been one month and already suicides, domestic violence, and stress-related health problems like heart attacks are measurably on the rise. In our fervor to prevent COVID-19 deaths, we necessarily condemn others to preventable deaths caused by the lockdown. A short lockdown doesn't result in many deaths and the effort is worthwhile, but if we continue extending lockdowns the related deaths will rise. At some point the lockdown kills more people than the virus. To be fair, is even one lockdown death too many?


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Well ive gone to work and lost people. I dont call 16 hr shifts fun. I dont call telling a family their loved one has this virus fun.
I think bored people cause more damage than good. Self destruction , smoking, drinking suicide is a choice.
Theres doubts on both side, we are human , we dont know.
So its best to stay with what you do know. And if you are guessing, you are in a sence adding to the problem.
Stay home. Attempt to keep your self busy. Maybe call your friends & family on the phone. Tell them you love them..and maybe plan a fall dinner.
When this has left our life, it would be nice to think you helped others to survive and do the best they can..versus causeing the problem that may have cost them their life
This virus is real. Deaths are real. Pray for this cure to work.


----------



## Tanya

So many true words. Ultimately the one lesson this virus has taught us, we take having loved ones close to us and able to see them is a privilage. Just as the animals we love, we are social creatures. We need each other.


----------



## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> Vaccines are only as good as the body's ability to create antibodies.





Damfino said:


> However, I'm not ok with scaring people into falsely believing that getting sick and recovering won't protect them but getting a vaccine will.


_AMEN _
Not to get too far OT; these discussions of doing *good* and having it backfire brought this to mind.
When we were living on Oahu, the state of Hawaii decided it would be good for inmates not to smoke. So they made Halava Prison a non-smoking facility. It was in effect a very short time when there were so many complaints from loved ones that they reversed it. What were the loved ones complaining about? The high bribes they were having to pay the guards to get the cigarettes in!! There was no mention of firing the guards for accepting bribes; they just lifted the ban.
(I don't know what the moral is; I just always found this to be amusing.)

As to the media. When was the last time you saw a headline announcing, 
**44,000 airplanes landed safely today. Everyone on board was fine.*
*
Today we had to accept that our weed eater is officially dead. We have to have weeds gone by May 1 or face a fine. So the DH had to brave the chaos at Home Depot to get a new one.


----------



## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> _AMEN _
> Not to get too far OT; these discussions of doing *good* and having it backfire brought this to mind.
> When we were living on Oahu, the state of Hawaii decided it would be good for inmates not to smoke. So they made Halava Prison a non-smoking facility. It was in effect a very short time when there were so many complaints from loved ones that they reversed it. What were the loved ones complaining about? The high bribes they were having to pay the guards to get the cigarettes in!! There was no mention of firing the guards for accepting bribes; they just lifted the ban.
> (I don't know what the moral is; I just always found this to be amusing.)
> 
> As to the media. When was the last time you saw a headline announcing,
> **44,000 airplanes landed safely today. Everyone on board was fine.*
> *
> Today we had to accept that our weed eater is officially dead. We have to have weeds gone by May 1 or face a fine. So the DH had to brave the chaos at Home Depot to get a new one.


HA! Funny cigarette story! Human beings are something else, aren't we?

Be thankful you can get a weedeater! Folks in Michigan are staging protests because their governor decided that "non-essential" items cannot be purchased while shopping for "essential" items in big box stores like Walmart. Gardening is considered "non-essential" and people are livid. They're also not allowed to go fishing. Meanwhile in Mississippi a church service was broken up by police and attendees slapped with $500 fines even though the service was held in the parking lot and members were sitting in their cars with the windows rolled up while the pastor preached over a short-range radio station. This sort of government overreach is unacceptable and if they keep at it we're going to start seeing riots and protests. At that point, "slowing the spread" will be the least of our worries.

I like this article a lot:
https://theweek.com/articles/908468/why-cant-fishing-during-pandemic

And this right here is why I think our current quarantine measures are overkill and came too late to do any real good: 
https://chicagocitywire.com/stories...-30-of-those-tested-have-coronavirus-antibody

It will be interesting to see what happens when antibody tests become more widely available in the next couple of months. A few folks in my area tested positive in March but they were on the tail end of the sickness that flew around here in Jan/Feb.


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

Isn't Covid-19 supposed to be worse than the flu?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm


----------



## Damfino

This is another interesting article: 
https://medium.com/@tepper_jonathan/ground-zero-when-the-cure-is-worse-than-the-disease-3c513d91393d

I agree with the premise that hospitals are some of the worst "super-spreaders" in almost every country and this is why viral spread charts show almost no relationship to the extent, timing, or enforcement of quarantine measures in different areas. Experts are perplexed why areas that went into immediate heavy lockdown are still having more deaths per million than others that didn't, and why the virus is still spreading in places that are taking extreme social distancing measures. Hospitals, folks. Hospitals.

I love the part about fresh air and sunshine. Too many of our current restrictions are forcing people indoors where they are far more likely to breath and re-breathe infected air. I know I keep beating this drum, but I strongly believe that some of the more extreme quarantine measures, rather than saving lives, are actually causing case numbers to go UP.


----------



## CaramelKittey

Damfino said:


> HA! Funny cigarette story! Human beings are something else, aren't we?
> 
> Be thankful you can get a weedeater! Folks in Michigan are staging protests because their governor decided that "non-essential" items cannot be purchased while shopping for "essential" items in big box stores like Walmart. Gardening is considered "non-essential" and people are livid. They're also not allowed to go fishing. Meanwhile in Mississippi a church service was broken up by police and attendees slapped with $500 fines even though the service was held in the parking lot and members were sitting in their cars with the windows rolled up while the pastor preached over a short-range radio station. This sort of government overreach is unacceptable and if they keep at it we're going to start seeing riots and protests. At that point, "slowing the spread" will be the least of our worries.
> 
> I like this article a lot:
> https://theweek.com/articles/908468/why-cant-fishing-during-pandemic
> 
> And this right here is why I think our current quarantine measures are overkill and came too late to do any real good:
> https://chicagocitywire.com/stories...-30-of-those-tested-have-coronavirus-antibody
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happens when antibody tests become more widely available in the next couple of months. A few folks in my area tested positive in March but they were on the tail end of the sickness that flew around here in Jan/Feb.


Im pretty sure I heard that the governor of Mississippi didn't make the people pay the $500 fine. He sure is better than the NJ governor..


----------



## healthyishappy

Interesting thought:
https://www.brighteon.com/58271f5d-56a1-4820-bdf7-8766dedd4bbc


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## bisonviewfarm

Well Im kind of rethinking my I won't wear a mask choice. I mentioned the lady coughing every where. Well after 2 days of a low fever combined with cough sore throat and headache I had televisit with my doctor. That led to me driving to town to be tested in the doctors office parking lot ( she was that worried about my symptoms I couldn't go in). Very odd to have a nurse every inch covered taking samples for covid, the flu and strep while I sat in my car. Unfortunately negative for flu & strep so now I get to wait for that covid test.


----------



## Oliveoil

Well, our governor has extended the safer at home order to May 26th and schools are staying closed for the rest of the year. Disappointing, but not surprising. I really wish they would turn more authority over to local officials. In the SW corner of the state(where I am) we have hardly any cases, in my opinion not enough to keep everything shut down.


----------



## Damfino

I'm encouraged by the antibody tests that are coming out. In addition to the article I posted above in which more than twice as many people in Chicago tested positive for antibodies than are testing positive for active cases, in one county in California they are discovering that 50-80 times as many people have antibodies than are counted in their official case counts. This is fantastic news, as it means a huge number of people already had this and recovered without incident. I'm becoming more and more certain that the sickness that flew around my area in late Jan/Feb was coronavirus but we all thought it was a weird kind of flu. A few stragglers came down with it in March and April and actually tested positive, but most of us got it a month or two earlier when there were no tests and no quarantine protocols.

They're also proving now that sunlight kills this virus very quickly. It dies almost immediately on outdoor surfaces. All the scary reports about the virus living for days on various surfaces came from laboratory settings and indoor areas. This means that closing down beaches, trails, parks, playgrounds, etc. is completely misguided and the government may soon modify their rules about outdoor activities. I hope so. This harks back to the ancient wisdom that one of the best treatments for a variety of illnesses is fresh air and sunlight. Sunlight also helps our bodies manufacture Vitamin D, which boosts the immune system.

I'm so, so grateful that I live out in the country where I can go outside all day every day if I want to and I don't need to wear a mask or have an excuse at the ready. I feel very, very privileged right now.


----------



## Damfino

CaramelKittey said:


> Im pretty sure I heard that the governor of Mississippi didn't make the people pay the $500 fine. He sure is better than the NJ governor..


Yeah, the DOJ found in the church's favor and chided the police for overstepping their bounds. But it should never have gone so far in the first place. Police should know better than to behave the way they did. I think there is a scary number of people in government and law enforcement who are far too eager to pull on their jackboots and wield their truncheons at the first glimmer of opportunity.

Phil and I are watching _The Andy Griffith Show_ in the evenings and an episode last night hit a little close to home right now. Andy went on a short trip to Raleigh in the morning, leaving Barney in charge. When he came back in the afternoon the town was very peaceful and quiet--because Barney had locked up half the town, including Aunt Bee and the mayor!


----------



## Sfgwife

bisonviewfarm said:


> Interesting to see how the goat market is in different places. Here everyone wants milkers problem they don't want to pay anything for it. And they expect perfect udders for under $150 I've had my lamancha Boer cross and her 3 month old doelings for sale for a while now price is much lower than I'd usually ask. Problem is she hates the stand and will never be a milker so no one wants her.
> 
> Our towns still at 3 cases with a 134 people tested. People seem to not really care no one's following the stay at home order even if they're sick. Had a lady come in and dry cough all over the counter while I was grabbing her alchol last night so I had to quickly wipe everything down before the next customer. And the folks wearing gloves they never take off drive me nuts packing the germs from store to store.


Those first two sentences omg yes! I have seen SO many people looking for cheap, nearly free, great goat for less than xx.... it is crazy!


----------



## HoosierShadow

Bisonviewfarm - I hope and pray you feel better soon! Definitely keep us updated!

My Dad messaged me today that my uncle is not doing well. He was diagnosed with liver cancer back in the fall, they removed 2/3rd of the liver, and put in drain tubes, but the tubes kept leaking. I think they tried to replace 3x, and after a leak the last time they said there was no more they could do.
My aunt went to visit him and said he looked really bad - he has minimal days...
Dad is driving up from FL in the morning - stopping to stay here tomorrow night on his way up to IN to see his brother. 
Please, if your a praying person, say a little prayer that he has a safe trip here, and when he heads back home, and that he has a chance to spend a good day with his brother. I am so worried about the long trip alone, and the virus. My Dad is high risk (breathing issues). My step mom is unable to make the trip as she is extremely high risk. 
I'm going to find out my Dad's plans and may go with him to visit my uncle. My Dad said he is prepared - gloves when he gets out of the car, medical mask, and I told him he should take some bottled water, hand soap and towels so he can wash his hands when he has to make a stop. 
So it's been a very heartbreaking...and upsetting evening. Hard to go to bed with so much to worry about.

I'm heading to the grocery in the morning, and hoping at least there won't be a huge crowd. Today my daughter and I actually stopped at McD's to grab lunch - first time in forever, and saw our grocery was extremely busy 
We went for a long drive - had to go to a feed store to pick up some stuff. Downfall of not being able to go in the store and handing them a list? When you ask if they have tattoo ink and they give you a harness chalk marker instead, and place the bag in your back seat. Ugh. I'll call them and see if I can return it whenever I go back. Now before bed maybe I better order that tattoo ink!

Hope all my TGS family are doing well!


----------



## goathiker

The word *goat* has many meanings. This video is especially true to our situation even though it's not new. This country has never been so divided... and I'm not young. The first president I remember is Nixon. 
We, as ranchers, homesteaders, and hobbyists, understand that a disease can't be walled out, that asymptomatic carriers exist, that viruses mutate, and that humanity is a herd. 
Keep praying, live to love, and care for one another.


----------



## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> I'm so, so grateful that I live out in the country where I can go outside all day every day if I want to and I don't need to wear a mask or have an excuse at the ready. I feel very, very privileged right now.


Same here!


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## Tanya

Bison. How long before you get the results?


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## Tanya

Mother nature us not kind. 13 tornados in Louisiana. Wow. That is hectic.


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## Goats Rock

If sunlight kills the virus, we are in trouble, I think the sun is on strike in the NE corner of the state!


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## bisonviewfarm

HoosierShadow said:


> Bisonviewfarm - I hope and pray you feel better soon! Definitely keep us updated!
> 
> My Dad messaged me today that my uncle is not doing well. He was diagnosed with liver cancer back in the fall, they removed 2/3rd of the liver, and put in drain tubes, but the tubes kept leaking. I think they tried to replace 3x, and after a leak the last time they said there was no more they could do.
> My aunt went to visit him and said he looked really bad - he has minimal days...
> Dad is driving up from FL in the morning - stopping to stay here tomorrow night on his way up to IN to see his brother.
> Please, if your a praying person, say a little prayer that he has a safe trip here, and when he heads back home, and that he has a chance to spend a good day with his brother. I am so worried about the long trip alone, and the virus. My Dad is high risk (breathing issues). My step mom is unable to make the trip as she is extremely high risk.
> I'm going to find out my Dad's plans and may go with him to visit my uncle. My Dad said he is prepared - gloves when he gets out of the car, medical mask, and I told him he should take some bottled water, hand soap and towels so he can wash his hands when he has to make a stop.
> So it's been a very heartbreaking...and upsetting evening. Hard to go to bed with so much to worry about.
> 
> I'm heading to the grocery in the morning, and hoping at least there won't be a huge crowd. Today my daughter and I actually stopped at McD's to grab lunch - first time in forever, and saw our grocery was extremely busy
> We went for a long drive - had to go to a feed store to pick up some stuff. Downfall of not being able to go in the store and handing them a list? When you ask if they have tattoo ink and they give you a harness chalk marker instead, and place the bag in your back seat. Ugh. I'll call them and see if I can return it whenever I go back. Now before bed maybe I better order that tattoo ink!
> 
> Hope all my TGS family are doing well!


Thank you and prayers for your dad and uncle.


----------



## bisonviewfarm

Tanya said:


> Bison. How long before you get the results?


Should be Monday or Tuesday. Thankful that the lab truck was late or I would have been waiting till Monday to even get tested


----------



## Goatzrule

New York is making mask wearing mandatory for being out in public. Unfortunately I do not have a mask so my weekend shopping is being put on hold. Small businesses are really going to be hurting after this :/ 
My cousin's Navy ship USNS Comfort is in NYC. Although it is supposed to only hold none infected patients just one person could bring it on and infect the entire ship. Its crazy to think that she is so close to me yet I cant go visit her.


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## CaramelKittey

Our NJ governor is treating NJ (The entire state is quarantined) like it is New York. We here in South Jersey barely have any cases but we are quarantined. North Jersey on the other hand has some cases, and the majority of the people living there are from/work in New York. Us South New Jersians are far away from New York--for the most part. North and South Jersey are two entirely different states--especially regarding landscape and Corvid-19 cases.


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## Damfino

Goatzrule said:


> New York is making mask wearing mandatory for being out in public. Unfortunately I do not have a mask so my weekend shopping is being put on hold. Small businesses are really going to be hurting after this :/
> My cousin's Navy ship USNS Comfort is in NYC. Although it is supposed to only hold none infected patients just one person could bring it on and infect the entire ship. Its crazy to think that she is so close to me yet I cant go visit her.


I don't believe any of the mask-wearing mandates specify that masks must be mass-manufactured. You can easily make one at home or just tie a bandana around your face.


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## Tanya

Making a mask is just as good. I see so many people puting bandanas.


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## Tanya

Making a mask is just as good. I see so many people puting bandanas.


----------



## toth boer goats

Yep.


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## Moers kiko boars

Bisonview, how are you feeling? Keep aware of how your breathing is. Make your self take a few slow deep breaths every hour or so. Need to inflate the lower lung. Please.


----------



## Goats Rock

I prefer red bandanas, look like an old West gun slinger.

I guess I am also fortunate, my life of semi solitude really hasn't changed much. I have always been a one man band here and never went too many places or had people over. Never have time to cultivate friendships like one is supposed to do. (I help people when I can, but don't have time for the social stuff like restaurants or bars).

Bisonview and Hoosier.... I hope all works out good for all of you. All kidding aside, it is a scary time, for sure!


----------



## alwaystj9

Tanya said:


> Mother nature us not kind. 13 tornados in Louisiana. Wow. That is hectic.


??? I am in Louisiana and I missed this?


----------



## bisonviewfarm

Moers kiko boars said:


> Bisonview, how are you feeling? Keep aware of how your breathing is. Make your self take a few slow deep breaths every hour or so. Need to inflate the lower lung. Please.


Not to bad really headache sore throat exhausted and a lovely cough but no fever today so I'll take that. I've been trying hard to remind myself of the breathing.


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## toth boer goats

Get well soon.


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## luvmyherd

Wow bisonviewfarm, we will be thinking our best possible thoughts.











HoosierShadow said:


> My Dad messaged me today that my uncle is not doing well. He was diagnosed with liver cancer back in the fall, they removed 2/3rd of the liver, and put in drain tubes, but the tubes kept leaking. I think they tried to replace 3x, and after a leak the last time they said there was no more they could do.


I am so sorry your family is having to go through this.



Damfino said:


> I'm so, so grateful that I live out in the country where I can go outside all day every day if I want to and I don't need to wear a mask or have an excuse at the ready. I feel very, very privileged right now.


Oh yeah, I actually got a little sunburn on my face the other day. I hadn't given it any thought because it was still cool. But I am up to a mile and a half and that was long enough to be a little red. Whereas I do wish we still had our livestock (and all that milk, meat and eggs) I am still very grateful that we do not live in town. Or even worse, a high rise.



Damfino said:


> Phil and I are watching _The Andy Griffith Show_ in the evenings and an episode last night hit a little close to home right now. Andy went on a short trip to Raleigh in the morning, leaving Barney in charge. When he came back in the afternoon the town was very peaceful and quiet--because Barney had locked up half the town, including Aunt Bee and the mayor!


One of my favorite scenes ever, "Aunt Bee!!??!! *OPIE!!!!!!*"*







*
Sadly, there are real police out there getting carried away in the part.

We are just getting along. We will probable go out Tuesday. We can order a TV at Best Buy and they will have it ready to load when we drive up. Then we have to drop it off at the mil's care home and let them know it is there. Then they come out and get it and hook it up for her.
After that I think we will try Trader Joe's and Safeway for a few things we are running low on. If they are crazy packed or have super long lines; we will make due with what we have.

*

*


----------



## Trollmor

Tanya said:


> Mother nature us not kind. 13 tornados in Louisiana. Wow. That is hectic.


True. I also heard it. :bighug::bighug:


----------



## Trollmor

alwaystj9 said:


> ??? I am in Louisiana and I missed this?


:funnytech: I believe they are pretty local.


----------



## luvmyherd

Well, due to us being stuck at home (right now we should be planning our trip to Washington) we decided to at least get come CornishX chicks. Also due to the shutdowns; every feed store was sold out of chicks early on.
So we did something that I have always been leery of; we ordered some. They arrived today. We got a call this AM from the Post Office saying they were there and we should come get them as they could not deliver them until afternoon. She also said she thought they needed water.

My husband went to get them and came through the door almost in tears saying, "I am NOT happy." Well, out of 25 over half were dead and others dying. I was livid. He immediately called the supplier who said they would send us the entire order again. But, it will take a week or two.
We are hoping to be able to travel to Michigan in June or July so we have a short window to get them up to size. (Of course that is contingent on us being able to travel at all this summer.)

I was also very upset at the thought of those poor babies not being handled properly. I mean, what if I had grandchildren here waiting for baby chicks and them seeing that! And I am such a sap that I immediately evicted my box turtle from his warm spot in the kitchen for the dying ones. I made some electrolyte and gave that to them in an eye dropper. I did not have much hope but I managed to save 2 out of 7.

Well, thanks for letting me rant.:imok:


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Oh man that is AWFUL. Im glad you could save 2. Yes..if you order by mail, its not that good results. Our chicks are everwhere in Okla. Tractor supply have them & several feedstores.


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## Trollmor

More than awful, @luvmyherd!!! Criminal! Poor things! So, there are 2 out of 25 alive? Well done by the post office to call you, at least! Have you named them? Poor and Thing?

Hope at least these reach grown up age! Breed?


----------



## Tanya

I am so sorry about the loss of those poor babies. Chicks become traumatised if the see siblings die. I hope the 2 that survived make it to adulthood. Poor babies.


----------



## toth boer goats

I am so sorry.


----------



## luvmyherd

Opps! I think I explained wrong. There were 7 okay (once we warmed them up) out of the 25 and they are doing well this morning.
There were 7 ailing ones that I tried to save. So far 2 of those are alive. They are weak but they made it through the night. Today I mixed the powder left in the bottom of the healthy one's feeder with water and got them to nibble that off of my finger. They are mostly sleeping but are able to stand up so I will not give up on them.

We are letting them send us another batch but if anything like that happens again we will call somebody to report them. They were not only hungry and dehydrated but stone cold.



Trollmor said:


> Hope at least these reach grown up age! Breed?


These are strictly meat birds. They grow really fast and do not breed.


----------



## jschies

Bisonviewfarm, how are you? Did you get the results yet?


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Jschies :up:..if you got to the post " So excited look what I won" thats Bisonviews post, she will text you back there..:wave:


----------



## Goats Rock

The next few weeks may be scary, everyone is saying, heck with it, let's open the world. That is when stuff will spike. 

I saw a great cartoon explaining social distancing to sale barn attendees! Showed 6' equals 1 cow or 2 calves! So, you have to keep the length of a Holstein between you and someone else!

Would that be 4 goats worth, head to tail?


----------



## Oliveoil

Well, it depends on how you look at it and how states proceed with reopening. Of course, there may(probably) be a small spike, but the question is can hospitals handle it. You can't keep the world locked down forever for fear of the virus. There are some places where the virus is hardly there, definitely not enough for people to continue staying at home and places like that should be opened. I personally think that it was a smart decision to shut everything down at first-we didn't know anything about the virus, how bad it would get, etc. There were predictions with hundreds of thousands dying from it. Except for a few hotspots this hasn't happened and places shouldn't be shut-down forever. Think of how many people and small businesses will have a hell of a time coming back from this as it is or having to close because of it.


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

Oliveoil said:


> There are some places where the virus is hardly there, definitely not enough for people to continue staying at home and places like that should be opened.


but then, those places will get a spike in numbers. I can almost guarantee that the reason our town only has 2 cases is because people arent getting tested like they should be. Simply because, there is NOWHERE to get tested closer than an hour away! Most of the places with few cases, ARE small towns. They are the LAST ones that need to get hit hard, because of the sparce medical facilities, and alot of people in small towns have a buisness. 
No way am i saying you are wrong. It is hard right now, especially on small buisnesses, but IMO if they open up, they will just have to close right back down again...

Now, am i saying that NOBODY in small towns are getting tested? Absolutely not. We have 2 cases, and for all i know, those could be the only 2 cases. But, on the way to my kids school to get HW, we pass an american legion type place, and the WHOLE parking lot was full on monday! I mean cmon! Are you serious! People need to At least TRY to maintain social distance!


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## bisonviewfarm

jschies said:


> Bisonviewfarm, how are you? Did you get the results yet?


I'm thankfully negative. Just have some kind of random crud  Forgot to post on this one.


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## GoatLover24839

I don't really go anywhere. I go to my backyard, and to my arena that is two miles away. I rarely even go to the store now. Only when I'm really low on food.


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## GoatLover24839

My goats don't know that the word "social distancing" even exists.


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## Trollmor

luvmyherd said:


> Opps! I think I explained wrong. There were 7 okay (once we warmed them up) out of the 25 and they are doing well this morning.
> There were 7 ailing ones that I tried to save. So far 2 of those are alive. They are weak but they made it through the night. Today I mixed the powder left in the bottom of the healthy one's feeder with water and got them to nibble that off of my finger. They are mostly sleeping but are able to stand up so I will not give up on them.
> 
> We are letting them send us another batch but if anything like that happens again we will call somebody to report them. They were not only hungry and dehydrated but stone cold.
> 
> These are strictly meat birds. They grow really fast and do not breed.


Aha, 9 alive so far, at least something. I guess for Cob, then, they are not well if allowed to live to adultness.


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## Trollmor

GoatLover24839 said:


> My goats don't know that the word "social distancing" even exists.
> View attachment 179371


  If there is a disease in that flock, all of them already has it!

May I show this to our new member in Lithuania? Thanks!


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## GoatLover24839

Yes.


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## luvmyherd

GoatLover24839 said:


> My goats don't know that the word "social distancing" even exists.


I absolutely LOVE it!!!!


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## HoosierShadow

That picture makes me smile! Our herd is smaller, but they are the same way especially if they suspect cookies or treats! I went out with my jacket pockets filled thinking they wouldn't be 'on to me' because no bag. WRONG. They smelled them lol. Silly critters.

I worry about things opening up too fast and people not proceeding with caution. I think if everyone worked together and tried to do things in a safe manner, then maybe we will fair 'okay.' We can't live in quarantine forever that much is for sure. Businesses need to be able to open. I agree with keeping places like schools closed. Our state has called off school until the fall. Everything is online. 
My daughter is still doing online work 4 days a week 9a-12p - Wednesdays off. She gets up early, helps with goat chores, then does her school work, has a few hours to do whatever or help me with things, and then evenings we are usually busy taking care of goats, and working on stuff outside. So at least she stays busy. My son is still working 2 jobs and working 5-6 days a week depending on weather.

Our grocery is looking a little more normal these days. They had lots of paper towels and toilet paper this morning. No hand soaps or hand sanitizers, very limited store brand frozen veggies and not very many dry beans. I was looking for stir fry veggies, and the guy over the frozen dept told me he hasn't seen those come in for a long time.









My Dad came up last Saturday and stayed the night before going to see his brother on Sunday. I had sent a care package a few weeks ago, and again this time I sent him with a big pack of toilet paper, paper towels, and large bottles of dish soap - he has enough paper products for about a year now lol. He had a very good and fast visit with his ailing brother and was back home in Florida on Monday. He was very careful when he came up, using gloves, mask, and I gave him disinfectant wipes as well. I'm still nervous, but relieved he got to see his brother. 
If all is better they are coming up to spend Memorial day weekend and hoping my uncle might hang in there for another visit, but we don't know if that is going to happen. Praying for a miracle. It's been a very hard year for my family.


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## toth boer goats

Oh wow. :bonk:


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## Goats Rock

Scary, I saw an article that said having it once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune a 2nd time! I guess I don't understand. I thought that the reason a person can get so ill is because the immune system is fighting overtime to kill the virus. Wouldn't the immune system recognize it a 2nd time? (Obviously, I am not in the health care field, they probably know this stuff).

HoosierShadow, sending good thoughts your way that things get better for your family.


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## IHEARTGOATS

Goats Rock said:


> Scary, I saw an article that said having it once doesn't necessarily mean you are immune a 2nd time! I guess I don't understand. I thought that the reason a person can get so ill is because the immune system is fighting overtime to kill the virus. Wouldn't the immune system recognize it a 2nd time? (Obviously, I am not in the health care field, they probably know this stuff).
> 
> HoosierShadow, sending good thoughts your way that things get better for your family.


If that is true then a vaccine isn't possible.
However, I don't believe that is true. It would be very unusual for a virus.
I believe they just don't have any data on the subject, so they can't really say for sure.


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## Trollmor

I guessed that the supply of toilet paper would get better. Haha to those who thought they would be able to sell at high prices! May they keep their supply in the garage until the mice find it! 

So, now I shall see if I can show the nice picture to our friend Silva in Lithuania. But it is a bit of a nuisance to have to do it at 04 in the morning, obviously due to Corona ...

So, here it is, the link, though not perfect:
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/is-this-amount-of-milk-normal.213007/page-3#post-2389107


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## Damfino

I think you're both right. There are several viruses for which a vaccine can't be made because antibodies either don't remain in the body long enough, or the antibodies are not effective, or some other reason. However, GoatsRock is onto something with the body "recognizing" an illness. The complication with this particular virus is that, since it is totally unfamiliar, some people's bodies are overreacting to it. The antibodies finish off the virus, but then they go into overdrive and continue attacking healthy tissue. A person who has had the virus before and cleared it, even if their antibodies can't prevent contracting the disease again, they would still recognize it and be less likely to overreact. So it stands to reason that subsequent infections would be unlikely to result in serious complications in most people.


----------



## Damfino

HoosierShadow said:


> If all is better they are coming up to spend Memorial day weekend and hoping my uncle might hang in there for another visit, but we don't know if that is going to happen. Praying for a miracle. It's been a very hard year for my family.


Best wishes he can hold on a bit longer. We're in the same boat with my dad, but we're not waiting. We're just visiting. My brothers and their families have been over there quite a bit and today my husband and I visited. When someone is on the brink, there's littles sense in waiting until quarantine is over if they likely won't still be around by then, virus or no virus. Best of luck to you and your family!


----------



## Trollmor

HoosierShadow said:


> That picture makes me smile! Our herd is smaller, but they are the same way especially if they suspect cookies or treats! I went out with my jacket pockets filled thinking they wouldn't be 'on to me' because no bag. WRONG. They smelled them lol. Silly critters.


No, you are silly, if you don't smell it yourself!!! All goats do, so why not you?


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Everyone, it's been a crazy year for sure. My sister in law is battling Leukemia and is getting closer to Bone Marrow transplant. On top of my Dad's brother being in liver failure, my Dad's sister's husband is battling prostate cancer, and was in a rehab type center after fighting pneumonia and being in bad shape. Apparently he is doing better, has been home for a while, and prognosis is good for fighting the cancer.



Damfino said:


> Best wishes he can hold on a bit longer. We're in the same boat with my dad, but we're not waiting. We're just visiting. My brothers and their families have been over there quite a bit and today my husband and I visited. When someone is on the brink, there's littles sense in waiting until quarantine is over if they likely won't still be around by then, virus or no virus. Best of luck to you and your family!


I am very sorry about your Dad, I know it's so tough seeing their bodies failing and nothing anyone can do for them. The hard part with this virus and quarantine is most of my family live in Indiana, I live 3 1/2 hours from my uncle, and my Dad lives in FL so about a 16 hour drive for him to go straight to his brother's house (12 hours to get here). I wish in times like these we were all closer. My Dad and Step Mom are high risk - both have COPD, but my step mom has major breathing issues and usually ends up in the hospital when she gets sick. My Dad isn't as serious, but his breathing is not great.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## luvmyherd

Wow! This thing really makes all the other problems magnified doesn't it? I am working really hard to reconcile myself to the probability of not seeing my grandchildren in Michigan this summer. They live so far up north that a winter visit is pretty much impossible.
I had also promised my sister in Arkansas a visit this year too. That is not as bad as she does not change that much from year to year.
We are having a terrible time with Rod's mom. Even though with her dementia she always accuses us of not visiting; she seems acutely aware that she is alone. A few days ago she called three times accusing us of dumping her and not caring. Hubby is getting better at handling these calls (they used to require a glass of wine) but they still hurt him. The worst thing being that there is nothing we can say to help. She forgets it all as soon as she hears it. (And then insists that there is nothing wrong with her and she should be allowed to go home.)
Well, that last tirade makes me realize how much of a toll not having our support group is taking on us.:imok:

On the upside; we got some seeds in the dirt today and moved the surviving chicks to the brooder in the barn. I miss them being in the house but they were outgrowing their bin. They seem happy to be able to run around and have an endless supply of food and water. The weather has warmed up so much that they do not require heat during the day.


----------



## Damfino

Our church had a parking lot service this morning and it was really nice to be together! The last parking lot service we had was on Good Friday and it went so well we discussed having another, but didn't do it till today. I rode my horse to church and that was a lot of fun. But instead of tying her to the hitching rail like I usually do when I ride to church, I got to actually sit with her at the edge of the parking lot. She's kind of nervous so it made her happy to have company. We're going to do parking lot church again next week. 

Colorado is one of the early states to "open up" starting tomorrow. We're getting some flack from the media but I have to hand it to our governor. He's looking at actual ICU stats and the fact of the matter is that rather than overwhelming our hospitals, we are severely underwhelming them. The number of empty beds is almost alarming because hospitals are losing money and too many doctors and nurses are underemployed. People with serious conditions like heart attacks and strokes are not going to the hospital because they fear the coronavirus and they fear dying alone. Some doctors are concerned because they are losing more patients to treatable conditions than to coronavirus. The point was to "flatten the curve" to avoid hospital overload and we accomplished that. Those who want everything to remain closed indefinitely seem to think we can stamp the virus out completely, but with it as widespread as it was from the very beginning, that was never possible. "Trace and isolate" measures are useless when so many people are already infected, and a good half of them asymptomatic. I'm glad we're moving toward reopening the economy and I have high hopes that we'll be able to resume normal activities and events by summertime without experiencing some kind of crisis. Our saddle club is still planning that team sorting clinic in May 15th and I'm looking forward to it!


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## CaramelKittey

Finally goat our Coronavirus boredom-prevention cure. If there ever is a reason to be bored on a farm..















Any name suggestions?


----------



## CaramelKittey

Damfino said:


> Our church had a parking lot service this morning and it was really nice to be together! The last parking lot service we had was on Good Friday and it went so well we discussed having another, but didn't do it till today. I rode my horse to church and that was a lot of fun. But instead of tying her to the hitching rail like I usually do when I ride to church, I got to actually sit with her at the edge of the parking lot. She's kind of nervous so it made her happy to have company. We're going to do parking lot church again next week.
> 
> Colorado is one of the early states to "open up" starting tomorrow. We're getting some flack from the media but I have to hand it to our governor. He's looking at actual ICU stats and the fact of the matter is that rather than overwhelming our hospitals, we are severely underwhelming them. The number of empty beds is almost alarming because hospitals are losing money and too many doctors and nurses are underemployed. People with serious conditions like heart attacks and strokes are not going to the hospital because they fear the coronavirus and they fear dying alone. Some doctors are concerned because they are losing more patients to treatable conditions than to coronavirus. The point was to "flatten the curve" to avoid hospital overload and we accomplished that. Those who want everything to remain closed indefinitely seem to think we can stamp the virus out completely, but with it as widespread as it was from the very beginning, that was never possible. "Trace and isolate" measures are useless when so many people are already infected, and a good half of them asymptomatic. I'm glad we're moving toward reopening the economy and I have high hopes that we'll be able to resume normal activities and events by summertime without experiencing some kind of crisis. Our saddle club is still planning that team sorting clinic in May 15th and I'm looking forward to it!


I'm glad to hear that you are still having Church during this time.
I am disappointed to hear some churches are closing. I understand safety, but having Church during Coronavirus is not difficult. You can stagger the people that come into church hourly or bihourly, and still keep them six feet apart.


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## Tanya

Car


CaramelKittey said:


> Finally goat our Coronavirus boredom-prevention cure. If there ever is a reason to be bored on a farm..
> View attachment 179665
> View attachment 179667
> 
> Any name suggestions?


Fudge


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## Tanya

Here we are on a level 4 lockdown from 1 May. We can travel and certain business can open again. We must wear masks. We have 85 deaths country wide and 4600 infections. 
We are not doing too badly


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## toth boer goats

Good to hear, stay safe.


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## luvmyherd

Had to get out today as we were running low on a number of things. Hit Walmart at 6AM and line was short and not crowded. It is the first time being out with the new one-way isles and tape and all. Most people were considerate but the employees did not seem to mind getting in the way. They finally had rice and beans and pasta but no TP. (Luckily we do not need that.)

We then went to Trader Joe's. What a difference! They were fully stocked especially with good fresh vegetables. Everyone was wearing masks and employees were pleasant and respectful of distance. Don't think we will have to go out again for quite a while.

This was my first time out in the mask my daughter made for me:









Trader Joe's cauliflower is on the left WM on the right. The TJ's was organic and cost less. Go figure.


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## toth boer goats

:bonk:mg:


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## luvmyherd

Just wanted to let you all know our new chicks arrived all healthy and happy. They were even warm.


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## CaramelKittey

luvmyherd said:


> Just wanted to let you all know our new chicks arrived all healthy and happy. They were even warm.
> View attachment 180553
> View attachment 180555


Beautiful babies! They are so cute. :inlove:I'm glad they arrived safely.


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## HoosierShadow

Awww they are adorable! They look so comfy and warm in there!


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## Tanya

That is good news.


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## goathiker

Interesting that some of you are so
close. @Damfino have you been down the rabbit hole?

What would happen if we separated our animals, made them stay out of the sun and away from natural areas (like parks and such for cities). They would get poorly right? Their natural bacteria would die off, their immune system would drop off. They are at the same time breathing in all the contaminants that their bodies are trying to throw out because they are trapped inside a mask. 
Would you actually do this to your animals? Why are we doing it to ourselves?
What's going to happen when the herd mingles again? 
By the way CDC recanted their numbers to 38,000 deaths. 
Something for thought, every dog in the world carries coronavirus (multiple). Flu shots contain dog DNA along with other DNA you don't want to know about. The early tests threw positive on everyone who had gotten a flu vaccine.

There IS a war going on, it is against an invisible enemy, but, the enemy isn't SARS.

PM if you're interested. I'll try to get back quickly.


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## goathiker

CaramelKittey said:


> Finally goat our Coronavirus boredom-prevention cure. If there ever is a reason to be bored on a farm..
> View attachment 179665
> View attachment 179667
> 
> Any name suggestions?


Eww cats


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Aww c'mon goathiker! You dont like cats? :heehee:


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> Eww cats


:heehee: Not a cat fan? We have two indoor and two outdoor.


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> Interesting that some of you are so
> close. @Damfino have you been down the rabbit hole?


Since I don't know what you're talking about, I'd say no I have not.



> What would happen if we separated our animals, made them stay out of the sun and away from natural areas (like parks and such for cities). They would get poorly right? Their natural bacteria would die off, their immune system would drop off. They are at the same time breathing in all the contaminants that their bodies are trying to throw out because they are trapped inside a mask.
> Would you actually do this to your animals? Why are we doing it to ourselves?
> What's going to happen when the herd mingles again?


But THIS! ^^^^

All the gasping and pearl-clutching over people flocking to beaches and parks to enjoy the sunshine and fresh air makes me face-palm. There's nothing so good for the immune system as a little exercise, some good ol' natural Vitamin D, and fresh, un-recycled air. I'm all for modern medicine, but it seems like too many people these days believe that ALL medical remedies have to come from a bottle. They forget that our own bodies are designed to fight for themselves if we give them the right tools.

I was thinking about our immune systems the other day because one of the biggest dangers of this particular virus is that it can trigger a cytokine storm in which the body successfully fights off the virus, but then the antibodies go overboard and start attacking the body. Once that starts, it is incredibly hard to stop. It's much harder for modern medicine to fight the human body than it is to fight the virus. The virus can't successfully kill or even seriously damage your body, but your own immune system can kill you very efficiently. It seems that weakened or compromised immune systems sometimes lose their "off" switch, which I find very interesting. Our bodies are incredibly powerful.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

I forgot to add, yesteray at walmart, i had to get a few things, and on the way back to the truck, some guy got out of his truck couging and sneezing. Without a mask!!! mg:

Im not saying that he had covid, but eww...


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## Damfino

A lot of folks have allergies this time of year. Coughing, sneezing people have always been with us in public places without masks, gloves, or regular hand washing. It's not great that people go around coughing in public at any time, but I don't expect a sea change in human behavior.


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## Damfino

I have a funny story from my vet visit the other day. The clinic does not allow customers in the building, so masked vet techs were coming outside to get people's information and take animals into the clinic. I handed my little baby goat over to Doc so he could take her inside for x-rays. About half an hour later a vet tech unlocked the door and furtively beckoned me inside the building. I fixed my masked in place and ducked covertly inside. She quickly ushered me through and locked the door behind me. The tech hurried me past the lobby and into the dispensary where I was ordered to wait "RIGHT HERE!"

About 15 minutes later, Doc came out to talk about the x-rays, but he couldn't show them to me in the lighted dispensary.

"Do you mind coming to the back?" he asked, shifty-eyed, with a guilty tone to his voice. I told him I didn't mind a bit and followed him through, but it felt like we were in a spy movie or carrying out a museum heist. We snuck stealthily through the building as if to avoid prying eyes. It was like being back in college when we would find ways to sneak into locked buildings just for the heck of it. The slight twinge of guilt. The thrill that someone would catch us doing something off-limits.

Doc and I squeezed into the small x-ray closet and he closed the door. The second we were out of sight, he whipped that mask off, took a deep breath, and said, _"I'm so over this COVID business!!"_

I couldn't help laughing. He's an older man who has had some recent health scares. I'm sure everyone is constantly on his case about keeping his mask in place at all times. Before we exited the closet he was careful to hitch his mask back into position. The whole experience was like "Pandemic Theater" and I know I wasn't the only one in the vet clinic who felt that way.

The Pandemic Theater experience was further reinforced last night when Phil and I went for take-out. A cafe employee brought our meal to the curb, but during the brief moment when the restaurant door was open, we could see that none of the employees were wearing their masks. They only put them on for show when they went out the door. I can't believe that handling your face all day long as you adjust, reposition, and take your mask off and on is really an improvement over just covering your nose and mouth with an elbow when you sneeze or cough. In fact, it seems like it might be a step backwards.


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## toth boer goats

It is scary and I hate it when people don't do their part, in protecting themselves or others. 
It is so frustrating. (headsmash)


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## Damfino

The best thing we can do to protect ourselves is to keep our bodies in good shape. Obesity is, I believe, the number one health problem in America and it is also one of the biggest risks associated with COVID-19 complications. Conscious choices we make about caring for our own bodies can make a huge difference in how "at risk" we are of dying from coronavirus. This should be a major wake-up call to get in shape and start taking care of ourselves. I'm guilty as well. I put on 15 lbs. after my horse died almost two years ago and I never lost it. I could afford to lose another 10-15 lbs. on top of that. I can chalk my body condition up to laziness and gluttony and I can blame no one but myself.

We are not helpless victims of everyone who doesn't follow all the safety protocols we think they should. If we think we can keep ourselves germ-free by dictating what everyone else does, we are deceiving ourselves. The only reason we're frustrated by other people's behavior is if we start with the false premise that we can control them. Our best bet is to keep ourselves and our immune systems healthy by exercising self discipline. Is this a 100% guarantee? No, of course not. But being healthy sure weights the odds in our favor!

And to do everyone else a favor, it's good to be courteous and stay home when sick and not cough and sneeze into the air or wipe our noses on our hands. We'll never be able to control those around us, but we sure can control ourselves!


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## luvmyherd

My husband has a chronic cough and has had for years. I have terrible seasonal allergies. But to keep from freaking people out; and getting nasty stares, we use Ricola before going out and wear our masks.
Great story about the vet. When we were at WM and I felt about to suffocate; we went out to the garden dept. It is open air and there was no one out there so we took a moment to remove our masks and breath.


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## Goats Rock

When I worked Safety for 20 years at my old company (we built and maintained chemical plants), anyone wearing a full face respirator (like a gas mask) or a paper filter (N95), had to have a full medical exam, repiratory test and chest X-ray. Then the mask had to be tested on your face, to insure no leaks, etc. (facial hair was not permitted). It was a big deal. You wore an oxygen monitor to insure you were breathing ok, while working. Long term lack of O2 is bad. 

Everyone wearing all these homemade masks etc, how much air are they getting? How well do they fit? I'm not saying don't wear them, just be aware that long term may result in more problems.


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## Sfgwife

NC is opening in “stages”. People are revolting in places about the quarantine now. Business owners are goin to jail for opening and not supposed to be. It is still crazy. But the thing i find most interesting is that now after all of the quarantining for weeks stores are not allowing customers in without a mask. Some even with gloves and masks. A local butcher shop is giving customers gloves as they walk in and not allowing you in if you do not have a mask AND you must wear it properly. We have a friend that went to WM a few days ago and she was made to go home and get a mask before returning... funny thing on that.. only ONE side of the store doors was making customers leave if they did not have a mask.... not sure what that was all about. :/.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well its quite funny how people think. The pandemic is real. A virus is a living creation that mutates with amazing accuracy. It is a fast moving invisible enemy. Just like the flu, it mutates once antibiotics attack it in one human. Enters another & changes to create a slight difference to attack victim #3. That is why getting a flu shot is honestly a 30% chance of not getting the flu. Usually by the time you get the shot, its not quite right for the mutated virus. Yes there will be more rounds to corona, covid 19. We already have 3 seperate strands. So people get ready to change..or get sick. Your choice


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah I agree Moers. It will make more rounds probably. And who knows what mutations it will be by then. 

We still haven’t opened in Oregon. Supposed to open some businesses on the 15th. But no concerts or large gatherings till September. Hum. 

I figure by then if schools are back in regular session the CV will be back in whatever form it’s in by then. And everything will shut down again. Our governor is pretty ‘shut down button”happy. She’s ready to push that button if she needs to do that again. 
And flush the Oregon economy down the drain at the same time. 

I’m fine with wearing a mask and gloves if that’s what I have to do. But I don’t think closing all businesses or most businesses is a good idea. We aren’t dumb. Let us be responsible. Wear masks and gloves or whatever we need to do to protect us and others. But support the businesses and economy in our states. 

My mom has a inherited lung condition so I know we have many people to protect in our states. But we can’t shut down long term.


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## meghank

I am one of the people lucky enough to be "essential". I work in retail, at a chain farm store. While I know should be greatful to still be working, and I am, My company has done NOTHING to protect anyone, employee or customer, they claim they are, but the only things they have done are feel good things. Claiming that we are cleaning things regularly (we're busier than we've ever been, and we were understaffed before) so we don't have time for that. They post a sign on the door saying there's a limit on how many people can be in the store (it's the same number as usual, per fire code, 549, not including employees). They have not required customers or employees to wear masks, so everybody who doesn't want to wear a mask to go to menards comes to our store. We had to fight with them to get plexiglass shields installed at the registers. (headsmash) People come in with their kids, elderly people come in just to browse and buy candy. I have had more rude, self-important customers than ever before. At this point, I don't expect people to put their projects on hold, if you need something for your project, fine, put on a mask, come in, get what you need, and leave. If you need to get out of the house, make up a project and do the same. But don't come in from 3 counties over just for birdseed and candy. Please. And be nice to me, I'm risking my life so you can get your bird seed and candy. And that is my rant.:ty: (Also, we up nort here in wisconsin and michigan here need a smiley that says "op", lol)


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## luvmyherd

Thank you for your help. My grandson works essential retail and has the same issues. They do have lines and signs but they are mostly ignored. Gum and windshield cleaner are *not* essential items folks.


----------



## Damfino

I beg to differ. Gum is _definitely_ an essential item! (Hey, if liquor and weed are essential, so are my bad habits!)


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh my :haha:


----------



## Calistar

meghank said:


> And be nice to me, I'm risking my life so you can get your bird seed and candy.


Amen sister! I work at a family-owned retail nursery and we are SWAMPED! People come here because they can't go anywhere else. People come just to get outside and act like we're a park. So many old people and pregnant women out lately, too. We've been selling vegetable starts and seeds faster than we can restock them (3 times a week on veggies!) No health insurance or hazard pay or anything like that, but we are "essential." Like you, I guess I'm glad to still have a job. I'm jealous of my friends who get to stay home and pick up new hobbies while I'm out working my butt off, and the bonuses the unemployed folks are getting is just insulting to those of us still working, but I do have a job. But good lord, so many rude crazies out lately buying plants! I'm risking my life/health and that of my senior citizen parents at home so you can buy your stupid petunias, Susan, so you can leave your attitude right at the gate! 
Also I am SO tired of customers lingering past closing and then getting rude when we ask them to leave. 
And it's been unseasonably hot lately and I'm probably going to keel over one of these days trying to work in the heat with a face mask on.

Ok I think I'm done, those were most of my grievances


----------



## HoosierShadow

Honestly, I don't see this virus going away. It is a scary virus yes, and I hope they can find a way to help prevent it and treat it, but ultimately, I think it will be like the common cold or flu - always here 

Our state is slowly starting to open things back up. People say it's too soon, but can everything stay closed forever? No. It's hurt so many small businesses I worry how many of them will be able to bounce back. Just have to take precautions.

I admit, I have yet to wear a mask when I go out. The only place I go inside is our grocery and Tractor Supply. Although I've had the unpleasant experience of Walmart & Lowe's last week and yesterday, ugh. Necessary, but I hope no more, especially the craze that goes with it. Waiting in line to go inside with police manning the door, it's so eerie.

I am picking up masks tomorrow to wear in places that require them/mandatory, and on Wed we will be attending a funeral.
I lost my uncle to liver cancer on Wed, and thank the Lord, Indiana raised restrictions on having visitation and funerals. Unfortunately, I am unable to go to the viewing as it's a 3.5 hour drive, but we'll be able to go for the funeral. My uncle was an amazing man, I can not imagine him not having a funeral, and feel so sorry for all those who were unable to have one. So we feel very fortunate for the ability to have one. 
Sadly, Wed (13th) while we are attending my uncles funeral we will also be missing another loved one - My mother who passed away on May 13th - 14 years ago. It was the day before mother's day. So strange and sad. I also can't believe it's been 14 years, it does not seem that long. I was pregnant with my youngest daughter at the time.

Anyway, I hope you all are doing well. We're doing okay here. Ready for the weather to hit some kind of normal and stay there - thankfully looking hopeful starting Thurs. These record cold nights are awful, you can even see it on the trees - some are behind, and others the leaves are really burnt. Strange year all around


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah I agree Hoosier Shadow. I think even if it isn't here forever....the scare mongers in the press will try to scare us regarding it being here still. You are right we cannot stay closed forever. Just protect yourself and others, wear masks and gloves if that is what you want to do. I do that when I go to the grocery store to protect others mainly. We live in a small town and our grocery store opens very early. Nobody in the store hardly at those hours. Works for me! =) I haven't gone into the big city to shop for quite a while. And I think shopping at our small grocerty store even though I am paying a little more for food it worth it. I also support my local community when I shop there instead of the big box stores. So I may never go back to just shopping in the big city. =) Less driving, that works for me! 

For those who live on farms....I am not sure if we are the only ones but we sure haven't been greatly impacted by this virus. I know it is affecting ALOT of jobs but other than jobs it hasn't affected our town much at all I don't think. We need to open though so that people can go back to work. Small towns are going to hurt alot. I am already seeing for sale signs on business buildings.....not a good thing at all!


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## Damfino

> And be nice to me, I'm risking my life so you can get your bird seed and candy.





> I'm risking my life/health and that of my senior citizen parents at home so you can buy your stupid petunias, Susan, so you can leave your attitude right at the gate!


I'm sorry, but I find this attitude rude and offensive. If you truly believe your job is risking your life, it's ok to quit and let someone else work it instead. If working retail is threatening your health, it's time to either find a job you can do from home or collect unemployment. The "I'm risking my life to serve you" attitude is a passive-aggressive way of shaming others for daring to creep out from under their beds for any reason you deem "non-essential." For all we know, planting petunias may be the only thing keeping "Susan" from the brink of total despair. Maybe her attitude is the product of what she's dealing with at home. Mental health is every bit as important as physical health. To some people, getting out just to relieve boredom, maintain a feeling of normalcy, buy a few "non-essentials" to brighten their day, etc. might be more important to their whole health and wellbeing than avoiding coronavirus, which is not a serious illness for the vast majority of people.

Many of us don't believe we are creating an outsized risk for ourselves or others by leaving our homes. At least, no more than we already risked ourselves and others by driving our car to the store. I risk my own life and potentially every other person's on the road each time I get behind the wheel of my truck. That's because even the most conscientious driver can cause an accident and kill someone. But that doesn't stop me or anyone else from still hitting the road every time we get the urge, even if our trip is "non-essential". Is this selfish? I guess maybe. But the alternative is for all of us to sit in our homes forever and not risk the world by venturing out for anything but the bare necessities.

I'm not excusing customers for being rude to employees. That's absolutely not ok and I'm sorry it happens. But as someone on the other side I have to stand up for myself and others like me who also "risk our lives" (pardon the drama) to keep stores in business. Some of us feel it is our social duty to help keep the economy going by spending our money on the things we always buy, even if they are not strictly "essential". My husband has a work-at-home job and hasn't missed a beat. If people like us who still have an income avoided buying all "non-essentials," it would actually hurt the businesses and employees like yourselves, who could suddenly find yourselves non-essential if your employer has to downsize. Please be grateful for the folks buying bird seed and candy. They're helping to keep the wheels of society rolling, and by venturing out they're "risking" their own lives and health every bit as much as you are.


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## Goats Rock

I had to get gasoline today. I went to the lack truck stop, Flying J. The only other station is Pilot, on the other side of the interstate. (Monopoly anyone?). 
Anyway, I had my handy dandy mask on and went in to pre pay. (No credit cards for fuel), The workers are required to wear masks. They had them on, below their noses or on their chins! Now, what good is that? That really irked me.  The masks are to keep your secretions to yourself, so if we both wear them correctly, we cut down on the chance of Covid 19 transmission.


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## Damfino

Haha! I had a similar laugh the other day at a guy standing outside the local pharmacy. He had his mask pulled down around his chin so he could puff away at a cigarette. (By the way, folks, cigarettes kill over 400,000 people in the U.S. _every year!_ Seems like some people's safety priorities are out of whack!) Anyway, I've seen this kind of thing quite a few times--mostly with people driving their cars with a mask around the chin and a cigarette dangling right above it. Seems like a fantastic way to catch your face on fire.


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## Calistar

Damfino said:


> I'm sorry, but I find this attitude rude and offensive. If you truly believe your job is risking your life, it's ok to quit and let someone else work it instead. If working retail is threatening your health, it's time to either find a job you can do from home or collect unemployment. The "I'm risking my life to serve you" attitude is a passive-aggressive way of shaming others for daring to creep out from under their beds for any reason you deem "non-essential." For all we know, planting petunias may be the only thing keeping "Susan" from the brink of total despair. Maybe her attitude is the product of what she's dealing with at home. Mental health is every bit as important as physical health. To some people, getting out just to relieve boredom, maintain a feeling of normalcy, buy a few "non-essentials" to brighten their day, etc. might be more important to their whole health and wellbeing than avoiding coronavirus, which is not a serious illness for the vast majority of people.


And I feel your dismissal of my concerns about my health and my family's health equally rude and offensive. You may not feel like COVID is a concern, and I absolutely agree that the media is playing it up into something bigger than it is. But it's not just people who are already old and at death's door who are dying from it. The fact is that we just don't know how serious this is. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to be careful. And there absolutely is a difference between having to go to the grocery store to buy your week's food and going to the nursery to buy a new petunia for that empty pot on your deck.

Yes yes, I know mods, keep it friendly, keep it fun


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## ksalvagno

And we are watching this thread even if we aren't participating. Definitely keep it friendly, keep it fun.


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## Chris488

To answer the initial question of this thread, my answer would be, "Okay, most days."

Being a home a lot isn't that much different than my normal day to day routine being a bus driver. Except now my summer vacation started in March instead of end of June. Sounds great to many I'm sure, except what good is it when you can't really go anywhere? Add to that our oldest is a senior this year and I was pretty bummed when they closed down the schools for the remainder of the year. 

Honestly, if I have to watch one more tv ad about "uncertain times" I'm gonna throat punch someone. We get it, it's a weird moment and we're all having to find ways to adapt. But when I tune in to watch tv, thats my escape, I don't need it rammed down my throat there as well. 

Around the time this all started I got out of the business of running websites, at least for a while. Just pulling that particular iron from the fire has made me so much more productive and I finished and will be publishing a book I was writing.

I was tempted to get a few more goats, but will refrain for now. I have a lot of projects to keep me busy already as well as an entire flocks worth of new poultry either already here or due to hatch soon!


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## Tanya

And to leep it light. My new found love for goats and all critters not human ( which btw I could not discover otherwise) is making sure this virus syays far away from my family. Being a free lance consultant for human resources(ironic isnt it) I am finding comfort in those that dont, cant and are unable to spread their getms, speak back and be rude.


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## Damfino

Calistar said:


> And I feel your dismissal of my concerns about my health and my family's health equally rude and offensive. You may not feel like COVID is a concern, and I absolutely agree that the media is playing it up into something bigger than it is. But it's not just people who are already old and at death's door who are dying from it. The fact is that we just don't know how serious this is. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to be careful. And there absolutely is a difference between having to go to the grocery store to buy your week's food and going to the nursery to buy a new petunia for that empty pot on your deck.


You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I.

We actually DO know quite a lot about how serious this virus is and who it affects, but it's the media's job to keep people in fear of something we will almost certainly be living with for the rest of humanity. I doubt there will ever be a vaccine for this one, but humanity will adapt and life will move on.

I am personally going to the hardware store to buy flower baskets this week. I simply can't work up enough "concern about others" to feel guilty about it. I'm sorry you think I'm endangering people's lives by going out for "non-essentials" but it's something I've done my whole life, knowing that every time I drive anywhere I am potentially endangering myself and others. I firmly believe that driving my truck 8 miles to the store is putting myself and other people in far more danger than the act of breathing in the same space, but no one has ever demanded that I should feel guilty about driving except a few environmental extremists. I'm weary of being told I should feel guilty for living. No wonder suicide rates are going through the roof during this pandemic! Stress and depression-related deaths and illnesses are surpassing coronavirus deaths in many places now, which has doctors very concerned.

On the plus side, between deaths from the virus, deaths from preventable illnesses that aren't being treated due to fear of going to hospitals (currently outnumbering coronavirus deaths in some places now), and deaths from stress and depression, at least the environmental extremists should be happy.


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## Damfino

Oh, and speaking of the environment, it IS really cool to see pictures of so many places now free of smog due to restricted human activity, and waterways that are clear for the first time in decades. That's pretty awesome. Shows what nature can do when given even a short break. There are definitely good things about shutting down human activity, not only for nature but for people as well. We all need a break sometimes.

I keep wondering if the only way to fix the economy will be to have a "Year of Jubilee" of sorts, where debts are canceled, rents and mortgages are forgiven, etc. That would be pretty cool.


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## Tanya

Damfino. A Jubilee year would be awesome. But then there must be a year where no credit is allowed to be given.


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## CaramelKittey

Have any of you seen this picture of children in Chinese schools? They are required to wear 'superwings' so they make sure they say 6ft apart. Just thought it was worth sharing.


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## toth boer goats

Wow, I do see one boy, who's face mask is getting a bit low. EEk.


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## CaramelKittey

toth boer goats said:


> Wow, I do see one boy, who's face mask is getting a bit low. EEk.


:haha:One boy on the right of the picture hasn't even put his superwings on yet. Call the principal! :heehee:


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## ksalvagno

We still need pollinators. I like to feed hummingbirds which also pollinate some things. Buying annuals that are blooming now help feed pollinators. Not to mention feeding them all summer into late fall and even till first frost. We need pollinators for most of our fruits and vegetables.

I understand the seriousness of how sick people can get. I also understand there are things you can do to build up your immune system. Each person has to decide what their risk level is.


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> I beg to differ. Gum is _definitely_ an essential item! (Hey, if liquor and weed are essential, so are my bad habits!)


I stand corrected and I am *not* being sarcastic. I very rarely chew gum and did not think about people who do. My mother actually had a very serious problem with dry mouth and needed to chew gum all the time.
In all seriousness; it is not _what_ they are buying that bothers him nearly as much as how they ignore the marks on the floor and will actually walk around the plastic barriers to get in his face. 
I really was surprised that our "dispensaries" have been kept open as essential.

The media is what is bugging me the most right now. I mean, I GET IT!!! This sappy music with images of a magnified virus floating around the screen makes me boil. But then no one ever tunes in to hear how many planes land safely each day; do they?


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## Tanya

CaramelKittey said:


> Have any of you seen this picture of children in Chinese schools? They are required to wear 'superwings' so they make sure they say 6ft apart. Just thought it was worth sharing.


Well Miss Kitty. You see. I did forget my wings at home and my dad took away my mask as punishment.
Seriously though. Do those things work?


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## luvmyherd

The school where my daughter teaches was considering hula hoops with suspenders to teach social distancing but the schools closed before they got to try it out.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> I stand corrected and I am *not* being sarcastic. I very rarely chew gum and did not think about people who do. My mother actually had a very serious problem with dry mouth and needed to chew gum all the time.


I have a bit of a dry mouth too, I think mostly from working outdoors in the sun and wind in a dry climate. Gum helps. It also cleans up the dust and grit that blows between my teeth (yeck!). I have a problem with receding gums if I brush more than once/day and I don't floss or swish ever, so I chew sugar-free gum every day instead and I actually have way better than average teeth! My dentist was impressed by the health of my gums when I was in last fall. My poor husband, who brushes, flosses, and swishes religiously did not get such a clean bill of health.



> I really was surprised that our "dispensaries" have been kept open as essential.


Keeping liquor stores and dispensaries open is essential for keeping the peace. If those hadn't stayed open, the riots would have started during the first week, and I guarantee a lot of public buildings would have burnt to the ground and politicians at all levels would have been used for target practice. There's value to keeping the peace!



> The media is what is bugging me the most right now. I mean, I GET IT!!! This sappy music with images of a magnified virus floating around the screen makes me boil.


More like _ominous_ music. This is the same media that makes many Americans firmly believe that one in five people will be mowed down in a mass shooting, so it's time to ban all guns--particularly if it's black and resembles a military weapon. These people aren't interested in telling the truth or helping people actually stay safe. They're interested in making every story into such a train wreck that people can't possibly avert their eyes from it. I believe the media is more to blame for mass shootings than anybody. "If it bleeds, it leads."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...leeds-it-leads-understanding-fear-based-media


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> Keeping liquor stores and dispensaries open is essential for keeping the peace. If those hadn't stayed open, the riots would have started during the first week, and I guarantee a lot of public buildings would have burnt to the ground and politicians at all levels would have been used for target practice. There's value to keeping the peace!


Agreed


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## Goatzrule

They are talking about doing online classes in the fall too. If thats the case i cant go back. I just barely survived the last of spring semester online i cant imagine a whole semester, no one is learning anything especially in the classes that needs to be hands on. I hope they figure something out. Although in upstate NY cases are low there are a lot of students that come from downstate and heavily impacted areas. How are you supposed to dissemble a tractor or give shots or AI online.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah some online classes don’t work well. Also some people don’t learn best visually. My son is thriving tho in a online charter school. Online charter schools are very popular for high school in Oregon. Not sure about the rest of the country. Anyone from other states can sign up too! His school wasn’t hardly affected by this virus. There are a few classes he was taking on campus. But most all that has gone online too. So it’s been working well for him.

That’s a good thing. Because our governor is well um...I won’t say. But she likes keeping our state locked down lets just say that. And I wouldn’t be surprised if every brick and mortar school won’t be able to open by fall.


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## NDinKY

I can’t wait until daycares are back open, and I’m hoping I get spots for my kids. Working from home with kids is not going well. Plus I’m back on service in the hospital come June, so that will be interesting. Our classes may mostly be online next semester, which stinks. I miss seeing my students in person, and active learning is a challenge online.


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## Jessica84

Here they are talking about starting school back up in July and then having half classes. Half the kids come in 3 days a week and the other half comes in the other 3 with Sunday off. No kids basically leave the classroom and are well spaced out. I’ve already signed my daughter up for homeschool. We are actually doing REALLY well working from home and she is loving being able to help me during the day and school work at night. 
Still not much has changed. I’m getting so annoyed with the dumb posts from our local group. Someone dared not to wear a mask. Some dared to say they are taking our rights away (which they technically are) and calls them selfish because they are not thinking about the ones with underlining health issues. Then someone else jumps on and says they are selfish and not thinking about small businesses blah blah. I miss the stupid posts about how someone passed them at the last second on the passing lane lol 
My truck broke down and when I went to pick it up the mechanic gave me a hug, no mask no nothing. Whatever. On the way home I stopped by Lowe’s and was chased down and screamed at because I didn’t have a mask. She was NOT amused when I pulled my shirt up to cover my face. I mean it’s really no different then a bandana I see others wear.
The only crap thing is I’m having issues and need to make a appointment with my OBGYN but he is old and not taking people right now. My health care provider is pretty much worthless so I guess I’ll wait it out for now. 
Other then that all is well. Still hard to find TP but I still have some so haven’t had to pull the paper towels out lol


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## Tanya

ksalvagno said:


> We still need pollinators. I like to feed hummingbirds which also pollinate some things. Buying annuals that are blooming now help feed pollinators. Not to mention feeding them all summer into late fall and even till first frost. We need pollinators for most of our fruits and vegetables.
> 
> I understand the seriousness of how sick people can get. I also understand there are things you can do to build up your immune system. Each person has to decide what their risk level is.


I agree.polinators are important. Especially now that polution has declined. They can do their world very well.


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## Tanya

ksalvagno said:


> We still need pollinators. I like to feed hummingbirds which also pollinate some things. Buying annuals that are blooming now help feed pollinators. Not to mention feeding them all summer into late fall and even till first frost. We need pollinators for most of our fruits and vegetables.
> 
> I understand the seriousness of how sick people can get. I also understand there are things you can do to build up your immune system. Each person has to decide what their risk level is.


I agree.polinators are important. Especially now that polution has declined. They can do their work very well.


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## Tanya

Ok. So getting back to the original topic. We are now 50 days into lock down. Hubby and I have discovered we actually cannot live together. ☹ he asked for a divorce. It has opened my eyes to the fact that we live past each other all the time.
My daughter and I are like a well oiled machine. Home schooling works. Taking care of the animals is our passion. She hasn't asked for a divorce yet. .
Destiny is thriving. 
Schools open again for grade 4 in July. 
That is how the virus is treating me.


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## Goats Rock

That is too bad that a divorce is looming. Wishing you the best possible outcome.


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## Tanya

Goats Rock said:


> That is too bad that a divorce is looming. Wishing you the best possible outcome.


@goatsrock. I think its more than just the confinement. I think there is another woman and the lack of freedom for him. But we will be ok and get through it.


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## Damfino

Oh Tanya, I'm so sorry.


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## Tanya

We are not the only ones. I know so many families are going through this. I am sad. But I get to keep the land, animals and my daughter.

This is the one thing that this confinement has exposed. How bad our family units are. So many unhappy people.


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## Moers kiko boars

Tanya, im sorry he chose to be ignorant. Yes its hard to get along..especially in confinement. I guess thats why the vows are..for better for worse. My pastor sumed it up 1 Sunday morning. He was tired of whinning men wanting to leave their wife ,they knew and had been with 75% of their lives, for a creature that held 5% interest. The other 20% was coming in guilt, sin, and remorse. So he called them lustful idiots.
Sorry to say I have to agree with him.
I wish you the best. It sounds like you are getting the BEST part of your marriage.


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## NDinKY

That’s rough Tanya, sorry you’re dealing with that.


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## Tanya

What is saddest for me is I did not know anything. I believed every single sign. Untill I answered his mobile while he showered. The other woman was shocked and I was shocked. And she lives two small holdings away. My 10 year old doesnt understand why we are seperating. 
Any way. Sorry to bring it up here. We are dealing with it best we can. Thanks for the ears. 
So. Who is living in the areas with losened lock down?


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## Goats Rock

Ohio is loosening lockdown. Outside patios at restaurants and bars can open today. (It's pouring down rain!) spas and hair cutting places etc. interesting to see what the next 2 weeks brings with regard to the disease progression. 

I feel so badly for all the schools cancelling their graduations, open houses, etc. My daughter cancelled all her honeymoon plans and postponed a wedding that was scheduled for (and she was counting down the days for months) May 30. 

This daggone virus sure has destroyed and disrupted most everyone's lives. (And deaths, no funerals, etc).

I guess, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Stay safe and vigilant!


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## Oliveoil

Wisconsin's supreme court struck down the governor's safer at home order saying it was beyond his power to do so. Everyone can open back up again if they want to. Honestly it a little bit of a mess. We don't have any restrictions, etc., so people and business owners are doing as they see fit.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well..they are allowing bars to open 1 person per 35ft. No more than 50 people. Weddings & finerals can resume. Weve had 6 more deaths in 24 hrs. Free carona virus testing. 160 tested + in 1 day. So I guess its ok to reopen. ??¿¿¿¿¿¿ they still want older people to stay home. 
New info shows young adults having heart attacks per carona..and young children show kawasaki disease brought on by the virus. 
Live at your own risk.


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## Goatzrule

I dont think some places should be open, yes i understand your life your choice but there are some places that are still so confined. I NH we are still on lockdown, and i wish they would open up the beach, gyms, and parks. The one way to stay healthy is going outside and staying active so why not encourage it?
The daycare I have been working at is opening up on June 1st.
Its true this lockdown is showing people how well they can live with each other. Some couples have never been home this much with each other. Some people have never been home this much in general. 
Im grateful for the livestock because it keeps us busy with projects and now that haying is starting up.


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## luvmyherd

Being over 65; hubby and I plan to stay home for quite a while after things open up. Sort of wait to see if it gets worse. The plans our gym has for reopening sound practically undoable. We won't bother with that for a long time. Our outdoor walks are best for now.
I am sorry to hear of your difficulty Tanya. My husband and I have had our troubles over the years but we have always been able to work in close quarters together. I did take a day off last week and just locked myself in my room. It really helped me feel better the next day.
I think colleges could open and those mostly-adult students would be able to follow safe guidelines. But small children rub their snot everywhere. I know people who work need to be able to send their kids somewhere safe but I see numbers soaring once young children are back in groups. (This is of course; my feeling.)


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> New info shows young adults having heart attacks per carona..and young children show kawasaki disease brought on by the virus.
> Live at your own risk.


^ These complications are _extremely_ rare, and I'm seriously doubting the Kawasaki disease link. A certain number of kids get it every year, and some who are getting it now are testing positive for COVID-19, some are testing positive for antibodies, and some are not testing positive for either one. So this could be nothing more than coincidence. I also read that it's possible that Kawasaki disease is caused (or triggered if the disease is genetic) by certain household cleaners. If the use of household cleaners goes up (which is happening all over the country and probably especially in COVID-19 positive households), the number of cases of Kawasaki disease would also go up--provided there is any validity to the household cleaners theory, which has never been proven.

Almost every single case of a younger person dying from coronavirus involves serious underlying health issues, foremost of which is obesity. Many articles talk about young people "with no underlying health issues" dying but when they show a picture, the person is nearly always overweight. I'm sorry, but obesity is an underlying health issue. My husband ran some numbers yesterday (he's a math guy and computer programmer so he's very good at numbers) and it looks like for people under 50 years old, the common flu is roughly twice as deadly as coronavirus.

If you have lots of cases of ANY disease then you will always have anomalies where it strikes people outside the vulnerable demographic, but these can't be used as a rule of thumb or to terrorize people. Every year we learn of some child or young person who dies of cancer, but does this mean we need to screen every child for cancer every year? No. While screening might save a few individuals, the practice would itself have bad health side effects, cost too much money, and cause way too much paranoia. Everyone would feel as though they were going to die of cancer at any moment and the stress and fear would cause other serious health problems. So while it's true that some young people and children can sometimes die of COVID-19, it's not fair for the media to wave these rare cases at us and say, "This could be YOU!!"


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> I think colleges could open and those mostly-adult students would be able to follow safe guidelines. But small children rub their snot everywhere. I know people who work need to be able to send their kids somewhere safe but I see numbers soaring once young children are back in groups. (This is of course; my feeling.)


Researchers are starting to think that children are not a good vector for coronavirus. They tend to be asymptomatic and it seems that kids don't really shed much virus while carrying it. They're not sure why this is, but it's very good sign. _If it's true_, it would mean that kids are something of a "dead end" for the virus and may be key to bringing herd immunity. It will be interesting to see how those studies turn out.


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## Moers kiko boars

So Damfino you must be a Phd. ,md, or medical area of research of virus, infections and invasive anamolies? Which field. Im curiouse?


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## Tanya

Here some of our country are still under level 4 and some on level 3. It doesnt matter actually. We also had a farming community get hit with swine flu. They believed it was corona. They never got treated. Now they are 7 people dead and 37 infected. Swine flu has a higher kill rate here. Its really sad.


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## goathiker

@ buck naked boers

We're free, we're free and you're still in lockdown for 3 to 5 weeks 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist lol. We are open.

Might seem like it's a bit unfair maybe but, see, Oregon did things differently than any other state I've seen. .gov closed down the cities and high population areas, like Multnomah and surrounding counties, Salem, Eugene, etc. The low density counties stayed on voluntarily lockdown as needed and all the trades stayed open. 
While the more venerable more crowded people have been in lockdown we have been keeping the state ticking over doing our normal jobs. DH's welding shop took in a years worth of orders in 1 day. He, my daughter, and her partner are working 12 to 14 hour days 5 days a week and every other Saturday. DH runs days, DD runs swing. 
Let's see, one person claimed fear and went on the fancy unemployment. One person caught CV2 and went into home quarantine. Um, that's it, nobody else got sick or had any trouble even without masks, ppe, etc. I believe that the crew is at 14 right now. Plus 2 office staff. 
I did get sick, I was really sick for a few days. I did throw a small blood clot to my brain and had 2 or 3 mini strokes. Apparently the darn thing had been hovering in my leg since my appendectomy last year just waiting for it's chance to be annoying as all gittout. Interesting sensation to get up out of bed and fall flat on your face, then your eyes are pointing different directions so you have to close one eye to find the kitchen. Reminded me of being an 80's teenager lol.

The quads are growing well, 3 on mom and 1 bottled. Frank's triplets are doing well. 2 on mom and the trampled girl on the bottle. 
She's also doing very well. She's always going to be blind in one eye but she's bouncing around and weighing at about 23 lbs. at a moon and a half, uh, 6 weeks.


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## Tanya

@goathiker you are a busy person.


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## goathiker

Busy perhaps but it sure beats sitting around feeling sorry for myself. The thing I regret is that Franky kidded when I was so out of it. That baby would never have been injured normally  
She thinks she's a dog now. She barks at the door, runs the yard with the pack, and completely believes that my Fila Brasileiro is her mother lol.


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## goathiker

Oh, and here's Teddy Kruger helping to weed the gardens.


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## goathiker

Guess why we call him Teddy Kruger lol.


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## Tanya

Lmao. I can only imagine.


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## CaramelKittey

He looks like a very helpful weeding dog. Many he can come help us too! :haha:
Is he for hire?


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## Tanya

She is in good hands. Same color same size. Same human mom. You wont need to worry about intruders. They wont just get barked at but butted too.



goathiker said:


> Busy perhaps but it sure beats sitting around feeling sorry for myself. The thing I regret is that Franky kidded when I was so out of it. That baby would never have been injured normally
> She thinks she's a dog now. She barks at the door, runs the yard with the pack, and completely believes that my Fila Brasileiro is her mother lol.
> View attachment 181465


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## ksalvagno

goathiker said:


> @ buck naked boers
> 
> We're free, we're free and you're still in lockdown for 3 to 5 weeks
> Sorry, I just couldn't resist lol. We are open.
> 
> Might seem like it's a bit unfair maybe but, see, Oregon did things differently than any other state I've seen. .gov closed down the cities and high population areas, like Multnomah and surrounding counties, Salem, Eugene, etc. The low density counties stayed on voluntarily lockdown as needed and all the trades stayed open.
> While the more venerable more crowded people have been in lockdown we have been keeping the state ticking over doing our normal jobs. DH's welding shop took in a years worth of orders in 1 day. He, my daughter, and her partner are working 12 to 14 hour days 5 days a week and every other Saturday. DH runs days, DD runs swing.
> Let's see, one person claimed fear and went on the fancy unemployment. One person caught CV2 and went into home quarantine. Um, that's it, nobody else got sick or had any trouble even without masks, ppe, etc. I believe that the crew is at 14 right now. Plus 2 office staff.
> I did get sick, I was really sick for a few days. I did throw a small blood clot to my brain and had 2 or 3 mini strokes. Apparently the darn thing had been hovering in my leg since my appendectomy last year just waiting for it's chance to be annoying as all gittout. Interesting sensation to get up out of bed and fall flat on your face, then your eyes are pointing different directions so you have to close one eye to find the kitchen. Reminded me of being an 80's teenager lol.
> 
> The quads are growing well, 3 on mom and 1 bottled. Frank's triplets are doing well. 2 on mom and the trampled girl on the bottle.
> She's also doing very well. She's always going to be blind in one eye but she's bouncing around and weighing at about 23 lbs. at a moon and a half, uh, 6 weeks.


I'm glad you are finally feeling better.


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## Tanya

Enjoying the last of the autumn sun here in South Africa. We have learnt to enjoy time outside during lockdown.


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## Tanya

And a friendly uello from the three of us.:hi:


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## Malissia

HoosierShadow said:


> I admit, I never thought it would get this bad, but whew. We haven't stocked up, and maybe that is a bad thing, and now especially since people are going crazy and cleaning out the stores. I usually do my grocery shopping on Friday evenings, but I am hoping to get to the store early tomorrow morning.
> The whole toilet paper thing is just crazy. I was at a Walmart store last night after going to Lowe's and there was no toilet paper - but lots of paper towels? There were 2 kinds of hand soap left. I don't normally shop at Walmart, so I'm hoping our local stores will have the stuff I need.
> 
> The Governor has recommended all schools close for at least 2 weeks. Many are just starting spring break in our area or will have spring break in another week or two, so many schools are calling off for the next 3 weeks.
> My daughters school is one of them. After tomorrow, they won't return to school until April 6th - that last week was her already scheduled spring break. The kids will have Non Traditional Instructional days (NTI) and do work each day at home.
> She is really sad because they had an Agriculture class field trip they were supposed to take today, and a school dance tomorrow. Of course it's all canceled.
> 
> Now I'm praying my spring job is not going to be at risk. I do photography for a media outlet at our local horseracing track. The track announced today it would be closed to spectators/fans/bettors from opening day (Apr 2nd through the 15th) well the last day of the meet is the 24th. There are several big races the first 2 weekends.
> The man who runs the website I work for said 'yes' to credentialed media being allowed to attend, so fingers crossed. The $$ I earn for spring races helps with goat stuff/show season since I am not otherwise employed.
> Of course now they are talking about possibly postponing the Kentucky Derby, and that ends my spring season at the races. Geez
> 
> I hope nobody here gets sick, hopefully all of us and our families and friends stay safe. Hopefully we can all get back on track with our lives soon, and put this crazy madness and scary sickness behind us.


It's just radiation poisoning, start buying linen clothes, that what blocks it from being absorbed to your body


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## goathiker

No, it's not sorry. I have already checked that out and 5g hasn't been implemented yet. I actually have a Geiger counter that is registering most of the time. 
There's a real virus, it just isn't what we are being told. There's a reason why it was snuck in. It will all come right in the end.


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## Tanya

Ok. So thev5G thing again. Here my husbands cousin is freaking out because he is linking 5G to Skynet and Satan and ultimately the end of the world. He babbles on about the micro chip that is sold as a vaccine for covid and that if you refuse Skynet will withold food and basic needs till you get the chip. And that 5G is a mind control gimic that will be used to implement the lockdown permanently. 
I say its a lot of hogwash. We need to kbow this virus is real, is deadly and we still need to take care of ourselves. I am a God fearing person that believes that when God comes to fetch us he wont do it this way. 
Sorry just had to rant. Thank you. So who wants some flour for tge radiation?


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

goathiker said:


> No, it's not sorry. I have already checked that out and 5g hasn't been implemented yet. I actually have a Geiger counter that is registering most of the time.
> There's a real virus, it just isn't what we are being told. There's a reason why it was snuck in. It will all come right in the end.


I actually have nothing to say about correlation of 5G and the virus so don't take this as my opinion on that, but just to make sure the correct info is out there, I do want to point out that 5G has been implemented in many places, including my hometown, where towers are up and active in front of homes, schools, and the negative effects it has on people's health, especially children's health, is absolutely noticeable. Again, nothing to say about 5G and COVID-19.


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## Goats Rock

Ok, I'm dumb, what is "5G"? Totally lost about what you are talking about!


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> So Damfino you must be a Phd. ,md, or medical area of research of virus, infections and invasive anamolies? Which field. Im curiouse?


All of the above.

(Just kidding!) Mostly I just have a BS in BS. 

I love to read, research, and learn, and although I excelled in school and in college, I hated the whole classroom thing. At one point I was sure I would end up becoming a veterinarian, but I couldn't bear the thought of _eight more years_ of school. I used to go to the library during college to research for papers and whatnot. Instead of doing the research I needed for my paper I'd spend hours and hours reading about all kinds of other topics that I found more interesting than the one I was supposed to be studying. Then I'd still end up acing the paper I didn't research. That's because in college they give you straight A's, offer you thousands of dollars in scholarships, and put you on the Dean's List if you're good at BS!

The fantastic thing about living in today's world is that we have entire libraries full of information right at our fingertips in our own homes. While it's true that many scientific research papers cost money to download, many of them are FREE! This has come in handy for my bighorn sheep research because there is so much science out there that is being misused to ban goats from bighorn territory. It's interesting when you come to a meeting and you've read more of the actual scientific research papers being referenced than any of the biologists or so-called "experts" in attendance.

This coronavirus stuff is just a diversion for me, especially in lousy weather. I do love to read the news every morning (I don't have TV, so I read all my news) and I love finding the contradictions and picking out the loaded phrases, speculative statements posing as solid research, correlations masquerading as causations, and the outright fear language that is used to twist facts into falsehoods. My husband, on the other hand, loves to crunch numbers. He is very good at reading graphs and statistics to draw conclusions. We both do this with all kinds of things, but the coronavirus has made this passtime more interesting than usual.

As for the 5G thing, I think it's a lot of nonsense. I haven't really researched that theory because it looks like BS right on the face of it. This virus is real (I'm still certain that myself and a lot of others in my area already had it). For certain demographics it's very deadly, but for the vast majority it's similar to a mild cold/flu. I think way more people had it before the "experts" even knew about it, which is why it _seems_ so contagious. It didn't spread like wildfire from a few isolated cases that occurred in late January. I believe it was all over the U.S. before anyone even started to look for it, so when they did finally start testing, it _seemed_ to be spreading unbelievably fast when in fact the tests were only showing that the virus was already well established and spreading among a wildly uncontainable number of people.

Anyway, I have my theories and opinions, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me or take me too seriously. I think all of us are entitled to our opinions and that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing about stuff. Actually, I'm pretty sad that the high classical arts of reason, debate, and rhetoric are woefully neglected in today's educational system. Critical thinking is not encouraged in our emotionally-driven sound bite society.


----------



## Damfino

On a fun note, our saddle club had its first event today! We had an all-day team sorting clinic which probably broke all the lockdown rules, but we really don't care. It was outside in the fresh air and sunlight where people ought to be if there's a virus going around. Cases just keep going down in Colorado and I don't see any risk of flare-ups. Every doctor and nurse I know is currently out of work or on severely reduced hours, which is starting to get really hard on them, so I hope we open things up SOON! All the folks at the clinic acted like prisoners released from jail and there was a giddy atmosphere.

We were a bit worried about the sheriff coming down to break it up because several horse events in other parts of the state have recently had cops shut them down, but no one interfered. In fact, by the end of the day there wasn't even one nasty post on Facebook, so now we're looking forward to starting our gymkhana season on Tuesday without hassle. It's good to have events to look forward to and to be able to see friends. Our sorting event was packed full with 10 people on the waiting list. We've never had that much interest before, so I think folks are just champing at the bit to get out and do _something!_


----------



## Tanya

Goats Rock said:


> Ok, I'm dumb, what is "5G"? Totally lost about what you are talking about!


Apparently the new network. It is apparently fastèr etc. I am not a tech fundy. As I said. My husbands cousin is going stark crazy about it.


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## Goats Rock

So 5g must be cell phone technology? We have a flip phone. Verizon is having a fit, it shouldn't be working , but it does! I'm not into high tech stuff, my vcr works just fine, the rotary phone gets all the scam calls any phone would and, my tv is the old picture tube type that I never watch! 

I brought the construction co. that I worked for for over 20 years from the dark ages into the computer age. I am decent on computers, can do all the excel, etc. but, I despise them, so I basically keep goat records on my computer, come on here and that's about it! ( no social media like Facebook, etc.)


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## Tanya

Goats Rock said:


> So 5g must be cell phone technology? We have a flip phone. Verizon is having a fit, it shouldn't be working , but it does! I'm not into high tech stuff, my vcr works just fine, the rotary phone gets all the scam calls any phone would and, my tv is the old picture tube type that I never watch!
> 
> I brought the construction co. that I worked for for over 20 years from the dark ages into the computer age. I am decent on computers, can do all the excel, etc. but, I despise them, so I basically keep goat records on my computer, come on here and that's about it! ( no social media like Facebook, etc.)


We are very similar in the above aspects. I am not fond of teck. I do work on a laptop. 
I would prefer being outside with my children and animals.


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## Damfino

Haha! I'm so with you guys! I have a laptop that I play with, but I don't own any kind of cell phone (not even a flip phone). In fact, I like phones that attach to the wall because otherwise I tend to lose them. I have no Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or other social media account. I can't text, which drives some people nuts. However, I am glad we moved on from VCR's and cassette tapes. I have a couple of favorites that never hit DVD so my husband burned them onto DVD's so they last. Tapes just wear out after too many viewings. We also have a region-free DVD player so those old favorites that never made it to DVD in the US but did in other parts of the world can play on our machine ("Return to Treasure Island" series, "Phar Lap", etc.).


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Yes. I agree. I enjoy research in my field also. I started out in computer..Bs in computer science. Then reality hit. Went into medical field 3 degrees there. Both sides in fact. Minor in psychology. What is amazing to me is the inbability for us as humans to not tell the difference in bs..and truth. So much public info..google, chrome, many public news info is all sensationalism. So much for being honest. When you actually get into the truth its sad, and doesnt make alot of money as the lies, err excuse me glamorizong the opinion of truth for the ratings. Even written documents dont always have verified facts, they make it sound much more powerful and glamorous. Kinda like generalized hypothesis based on falsified mathematical figures. If we were all exactly the same, it would work . Thats why variables create a new chain to divert the analysis on. Correct? So yes we all have opinions, as long as we dont attempt to make ours the only truth since its from speculation and hypothesis. 
I do not understand where people whom are told to stay home..accept it as stay in your house. As far as i know..no one said. Stay locked in your house??? I have acerage, Ihave livestock, I love the sun, fresh air, just feeling of freedom outside. Ive told thousands get outside, garden, weed beds, build a birdhouse, mow your lawn, go walking. NO CROWDS! So its like the toilet paper crisis..when does an upper respiratory infection cause diarrhea, unless its a reaction to meds. Geez people...get outside, wash your house...but get that fresh air..STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS!


----------



## luvmyherd

Tanya said:


> We are very similar in the above aspects. I am not fond of teck. I do work on a laptop.
> I would prefer being outside with my children and animals.


Ditto here as well. My last cell phone bill informed me that they are *making changes that may require me to get a new device*. I like my sliding phone with the QWERTY keyboard. Then there are the places that are making it nearly impossible to function without a *smart* phone. One of the new guidelines for our gym when it reopens is to check in on your phone. They just assume everybody has one. And it is nearly impossible to get around Disneyland anymore without one as well. My husband could not get in the rewards line at Home Depot because he had to use his phone to get a spot. 
Grrrrr my rant for the day.

We got the older chicks into their outdoor pen and opened up the whole brooder for the newer, younger ones. Even though it was windy; I liked the outside work. When is this weather going to make up its mind? One day I have to go out and turn off the lights and heat cuz the poor little things are lying on their sides panting. Next day they are all huddled together and need extra heat.


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## Tanya

When my two chickens were hatched I took a shoe box, a hotwater bottle and two towels. They litterally slept next to my bed at night and spent their awake hours in a feeding box in my lounge with two teddies. They are now going on 2 years old and sleep in a coal shoot (converted) in my lounge at night. I clean it daily. They also quietly each lay an egg for me by breakfast time. The coal shoot is placed outside when it is warm during the day. They will not sleep in it if it isnt in my lounge. crazy chickens.
My phone is 3 years old and I dont want to exchange it for another. My 10 year old wants a 13 000 rand phone just for games. I told her she will need to save for it.
Maybe I am just old fashioned. But technology is beyond me and I am not even old.


luvmyherd said:


> Ditto here as well. My last cell phone bill informed me that they are *making changes that may require me to get a new device*. I like my sliding phone with the QWERTY keyboard. Then there are the places that are making it nearly impossible to function without a *smart* phone. One of the new guidelines for our gym when it reopens is to check in on your phone. They just assume everybody has one. And it is nearly impossible to get around Disneyland anymore without one as well. My husband could not get in the rewards line at Home Depot because he had to use his phone to get a spot.
> Grrrrr my rant for the day.
> 
> We got the older chicks into their outdoor pen and opened up the whole brooder for the newer, younger ones. Even though it was windy; I liked the outside work. When is this weather going to make up its mind? One day I have to go out and turn off the lights and heat cuz the poor little things are lying on their sides panting. Next day they are all huddled together and need extra heat.


----------



## Tanya

Moers kiko boars said:


> Yes. I agree. I enjoy research in my field also. I started out in computer..Bs in computer science. Then reality hit. Went into medical field 3 degrees there. Both sides in fact. Minor in psychology. What is amazing to me is the inbability for us as humans to not tell the difference in bs..and truth. So much public info..google, chrome, many public news info is all sensationalism. So much for being honest. When you actually get into the truth its sad, and doesnt make alot of money as the lies, err excuse me glamorizong the opinion of truth for the ratings. Even written documents dont always have verified facts, they make it sound much more powerful and glamorous. Kinda like generalized hypothesis based on falsified mathematical figures. If we were all exactly the same, it would work . Thats why variables create a new chain to divert the analysis on. Correct? So yes we all have opinions, as long as we dont attempt to make ours the only truth since its from speculation and hypothesis.
> I do not understand where people whom are told to stay home..accept it as stay in your house. As far as i know..no one said. Stay locked in your house??? I have acerage, Ihave livestock, I love the sun, fresh air, just feeling of freedom outside. Ive told thousands get outside, garden, weed beds, build a birdhouse, mow your lawn, go walking. NO CROWDS! So its like the toilet paper crisis..when does an upper respiratory infection cause diarrhea, unless its a reaction to meds. Geez people...get outside, wash your house...but get that fresh air..STAY AWAY FROM CROWDS!


Isnt that the truth. Would you believe I am a labour lawyer? I choose to be a consultant so I can spend less time among people and more with my children and animals. Go figure.


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## Tanya

This lockdown has my head working weird. When I read your messages, I actually have a voice for each of you.
I just want my fave coffee shop to open. Just once a week I can hear actual voices instead of my heads virtual voices.


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## Moers kiko boars

Lol lol :up: I UNDERSTAND! LOL LOL
Im walking the fence on retirement. Im tired, grumpy, and look worn out. I find such peace with my goats, horse, dogs,and starting to build a chicken coop. So I guess Ill be getting a few.
This pandemic has helped me got towards the 75% sure on wanting out. The constant flow of pain, confusion, and fear do takes its toll over the years. And now this? Yeah baby...oh..and my 5 yr old cell phone is dieing a slow frustrating death. If you turn it sideways it might work, then turn it the other, it might work. And ugggg the files of info on this phone...so here come the chip changes and additional space to upgrade. I hate learning a new phone. Why dont those voices explain what to do with a new phone? Wouldnt that be nice? (headsmash)p
I would love a quiet cup of coffee, voices or not..lol lol


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> I do not understand where people whom are told to stay home..accept it as stay in your house. As far as i know..no one said. Stay locked in your house???


Actually, in many places they kinda did. Closing down parks, trails, beaches, etc. and publicly chastising (and even prosecuting in some instances!) anyone seen roaming a public outdoor area have all made people afraid to go out and enjoy fresh air and sunlight. There have been headline articles about people being ticketed for surfing, taking a scenic drive, bringing children to the park, fishing, and picnicking at lakes. People who dare to go outside can be photographed and publicly shamed on Facebook. It even happened right here in my own small town a couple of weeks ago when some nosy person called the cops on some kids playing baseball down at the park after posting photos of the "dangerous outdoor gathering" on Facebook. The cops broke it up and sent the kids home, and then of course there was a huge uproar on our community Facebook page with hostile exchanges on both sides of the issue. So yeah, the narrative is that people should stay locked in their houses... which in my opinion is a great way to make all of them more susceptible to illness than if they were encouraged to spend time in outdoor activities.

Billboards on public highways here in Colorado say "Stay at home! Save a life!" Such messages make people feel guilty for stepping foot past their own threshold--such a move might KILL someone. The not-so-subtle message being played over and over these days is that leaving your home is akin to murder. Since a significant number of people do not have the luxury of living on acreage they can enjoy all by themselves, they don't have the option of being outside if they stay at home.


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## Goatzrule

Recently my parents were talking about a study that said the people who are staying home and obeying the orders are getting the virus at a higher rate compared to those EMTs and other essential workers. Now I haven't seen the study myself but I do believe the more active you stay and the healthier you live the better chance your body has at fighting anything.
Now my friends and I have been staying somewhat busy. Bonfires and road trips just to keep busy. We just opened up the family's lakehouse in Maine which is a nice getaway. My 88-year-old Nana is flying up from Florida for the summer. Very worried about that, she is my favorite person and recently her health hasn't been the best. Her knees are going which has kept her from exercising. Some family members are back and forth about wanting to visit her to keep her safe but at this point shes 88, time isn't exactly on our side.


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## Moers kiko boars

How does stay at home equal beach time? Or play in park? It means stay on your property. How hard is that? The only time they directed anyone to stay inside their home was the ones WITH THE VIRUS! But everyone else could be outside on their property. No groups. Maybe if FB would have got it right. More people would have been enjoying their front porch,gardening, or walking in the pasture.


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## HoosierShadow

I've been MIA for a while, just been able to get on randomly the past week or so. 

Tanya - I am so very sorry for the issues with the husband - sounds like you and your daughter deserve much better. Hang in there, you guys will be fine.

Wednesday my kids and I drove up east of Indianapolis for my uncle's funeral. Thankfully, the county opened up to gatherings of 25 (at least in the funeral home), but they could allow 45 total or something like that for the funeral (25 for the viewing the night before but we were not able to attend). My brother was able to get a flight in from his job in Texas, my father drove up from FL, and we all wore masks, and tried to do social distancing but won't lie there were a few hugs involved.
Some of my Dad's side of the family I hadn't seen in years, such a sad way to have a 'reunion.' But the funeral was so well done, it was so honoring, and I am so thankful we were able to attend.
We were told because the cemetery is in Indianapolis/different county that they were still under a gathering of 10 people order. However, at the cemetery, 10 people were under the tent, and the rest of us were able to spread out, and a loud speaker allowed us to hear the graveside service.

I honestly haven't been following the daily updates. I just needed a break from the craziness. I did read that the travel ban in KY will expire on Friday and they will allow groups of 10 to gather. Retail stores and restaurants will be allowed to open. 

I know we have to be cautious, but we also have to open back up. Businesses are hurting, people are hurting and many need their jobs. I know so many who have had nothing but nightmare 'h*ll' with unemployment problems left and right. we've been blessed that it hasn't affected our household too much, but the grocery bill is higher than ever. Add in the crazy weather, and our electric bill was much higher than it was this time last year. Thankfully better temperatures are here so we can leave the heat (and air) off for the most part.

So here's something I ponder about masks... They say nose/mouth is most likely way to get it, but you can get it through your eyes?
So whose to say that mask is going to do a lot of good if it gets into your eyes? I wonder what the likelihood of getting it that way would be? 
I admit, I don't wear a mask when I go to the grocery store. I'm not the only one. I am otherwise very cautious. I carry hand sanitizer, I wash my hands, and up until Friday I was cleaning everything we brought into the house with bleach or disinfectant wipes - all grocery packages. But Saturday morning I was so exhausted, I just didn't do it - only certain things. 

So far our county has had 19 confirmed cases with 3 testing locations, and 17 are fully recovered. I'm not saying that we are safe, but I feel a little safer sure. 
Most places I go are curbside service.


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## NDinKY

Hoosier, the cloth masks don’t really protect the wearer, rather they offer protection for everyone else. Think of it like underwear and pants. If you’re standing next to someone and they pee (cough) with nothing on, it’s likely to get all over you. If you have pants (a mask) on, less is likely to get on your body, but your pants (mask) still gets soiled. But if they pee (cough) and have their pants/underwear (mask) on, they keep their contamination mostly to themselves, making it less likely to spread. 

People wearing cloth masks aren’t doing it for themselves, they’re doing it in case they have it and are presymptomatic/asymptomatic and they want to decrease the chance they give it to others. 

Now if you have a surgical mask plus face shield then that offers protection for the wearer. N95 offers aerosol protection. 

You’d think the pandemic was over with the lack of people wearing masks when I went grocery shopping on Saturday. Just because things are reopening doesn’t mean we can go back to our normal behaviors. We still need to be cautious to protect those who are vulnerable.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> How does stay at home equal beach time? Or play in park? It means stay on your property. How hard is that? The only time they directed anyone to stay inside their home was the ones WITH THE VIRUS! But everyone else could be outside on their property. No groups. Maybe if FB would have got it right. More people would have been enjoying their front porch,gardening, or walking in the pasture.


Nearly all of the problems with "outdoor activities" occurred in big cities. People in big cities can't go outside on their own property because they don't own property. They have no personal pasture to walk in, no personal plot of land to garden, and for many people the "front porch" is 5x5 feet and opens directly onto the street. So when you tell people who live in big cities to "go outside on your own property" you're essentially saying, "Let them eat cake." If you live in a city, or even if you rent an apartment in the country, the _only_ place you can go outside is on public property. If public outdoor areas are shut down, then you have no ability to go outside. The rules can state that it's ok to go out for exercise, but if parks, trails, and beaches are cordoned off, where do you exercise safely? I don't think it was ever ok to shut down outdoor public areas or ban outdoor activities.


----------



## Damfino

Goatzrule said:


> Recently my parents were talking about a study that said the people who are staying home and obeying the orders are getting the virus at a higher rate compared to those EMTs and other essential workers. Now I haven't seen the study myself but I do believe the more active you stay and the healthier you live the better chance your body has at fighting anything.
> Now my friends and I have been staying somewhat busy. Bonfires and road trips just to keep busy. We just opened up the family's lakehouse in Maine which is a nice getaway. My 88-year-old Nana is flying up from Florida for the summer. Very worried about that, she is my favorite person and recently her health hasn't been the best. Her knees are going which has kept her from exercising. Some family members are back and forth about wanting to visit her to keep her safe but at this point shes 88, time isn't exactly on our side.


I'm looking at my dad and some of my elderly friends and relatives and thinking that visiting is the right thing to do. If we wait until this virus goes away or there's a vaccine, these people will be long dead before we ever see them again. Cancer and heart disease kill way more people every year than coronavirus, and those diseases never take a break. So for us, we're visiting our ailing loved ones while we still can.


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## luvmyherd

Tanya said:


> Just once a week I can hear actual voices instead of my heads virtual voices.


You too?!? My brain just does not shut up these days.











NDinKY said:


> Hoosier, the cloth masks don't really protect the wearer, rather they offer protection for everyone else. Think of it like underwear and pants. If you're standing next to someone and they pee (cough) with nothing on, it's likely to get all over you. If you have pants (a mask) on, less is likely to get on your body, but your pants (mask) still gets soiled. But if they pee (cough) and have their pants/underwear (mask) on, they keep their contamination mostly to themselves, making it less likely to spread.


*That *is an awesome analogy!!


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## toth boer goats

:nod:


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## Moers kiko boars

The only way to help protect yourself is to never go anywhere. But lets face it..we go. .put on a mask. Protect from enjoying others spittle. Yes Hoosier its an opening into your system. So if the other carrier is wearing a mask, even a cloth covering it lessens the % of sharing the virus 50%.
Lets look at kids, they sneeze, cough, wipe the excess on their shirt. Pants, then their hands touch everything they look at. Spreading the virus. Or even sneeze, its smazing the amount of misty fluids leave your nose. The size (volume) of the mist is huge. So yes, the masks help. But thats only for people who care enough to not risk causing another harm.


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## Tanya

luvmyherd said:


> You too?!? My brain just does not shut up
> It is darned scary actually


----------



## Goatzrule

Getting outside is healthy. Even the beach or a park because like they said it can be transmitted threw water and everyone I see on the regular at the beach are already far away from each other. We are weakening our immune systems. 
And like you said Damfino, not everyone has property to get out to. Some only have a tiny apartment. We forget not everyone lives like us I guess. And its the people who arent able to get outside who seem to be having the worst time.


----------



## goathiker

I would love to see everyone turn off the TV and do some digging on this. Research is your best friend.

Something weird happened in my living room yesterday


----------



## luvmyherd

>>It is darned scary actually<<
Yes it can be scary. Especially when you try to explain it and people just go, huh?


----------



## Moers kiko boars

So goathiker..were they special delivery? A gift? Wanting popcorn & a movie?


----------



## ksalvagno

goathiker said:


> I would love to see everyone turn off the TV and do some digging on this. Research is your best friend.
> 
> Something weird happened in my living room yesterday
> View attachment 181547
> View attachment 181549


Is that the little lamb you got? How sweet!

Real research is your best friend.


----------



## Iluvlilly!

I have actually heard that if you stay home all the time your immune system goes way down and then when you do eventually go out the the real world you get Covid and everything else that's going around. Not real sure what to believe!


----------



## NDinKY

I’m keeping my kids immune systems up. They love “helping” clean the goat stalls and playing queen of the manure pile. 

Definitely a good idea to turn off the TV and read reliable sources such as peer reviewed manuscripts. There are a ton of sloppy pre-reviewed pubs out there, many have faulty methodology. 

We’re learning new things about this virus daily. Most of us will get it, but better to get it later rather than being one of the first. The hematologic effects of this virus are profound and were overlooked in the beginning when this was thought to primarily be a lung issue. Now we know it’s an oxygen carrying issue, along with clotting, but if you anticoagulate they like to bleed into their brain, looks kinda like DIC, still ARDS features, secondary pneumonia, proning on high flow nasal cannula can help avoid the vent. Multiple trials ongoing with a wide variety of agents. Some early vaccine studies look very promising. The take home point is you’re more likely to have better outcomes if you get this later so we actually have more of a clue on how to treat it. Things have changed so rapidly in how we treat these patients already.


----------



## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> I would love to see everyone turn off the TV and do some digging on this. Research is your best friend.
> 
> Something weird happened in my living room yesterday
> View attachment 181547
> View attachment 181549


Agreed! :nod:

Those are some adorable babies. Were they born on your property?


----------



## goathiker

No, we drove up to Washington to get them. I reserved the black paint, she was born on mother's day, and he threw in the little 3 day old. The older white one is my daughter's. 
They are high percentage East Frisian milk sheep. 
We also bought a Shetland ram lamb to improve the meat quality of the lamb crop. 
He can't be a house pet of course, makes rams too dangerous. 
The older ones will go outside as soon as the rain clears up. Frisian lambs are very susceptible to pneumonia.


----------



## Davi

luvmyherd said:


> We are letting them send us another batch but if anything like that happens again we will call somebody to report them. They were not only hungry and dehydrated but stone cold.


I know this is old but I wanted to let you know, the problem was probably the shipping delays. When you buy chicks like that, what they do is they hatch the chicks, then immediately ship them. They have not yet eaten or drank anything. This is because, in that stage, they are completely sterile. they can't carry any diseases or anything so they don't need to worry about transferring anything bad long distances with the chicks. Its possible because technically baby chicks dont need to eat or drink for 48 hours after hatching due to the stuff left from the yolk.

So what probably happened is it took too long for the chicks to be picked up, more then 48 hours, or the box wasn't properly kept warm and they got too cold. So I wouldn't blame the company you bought them from!


----------



## Davi

Iluvlilly! said:


> I have actually heard that if you stay home all the time your immune system goes way down and then when you do eventually go out the the real world you get Covid and everything else that's going around. Not real sure what to believe!


Thats not true at all! Your immune system wont go away unless you have some other problem. Your immune system is still working at home, just like it would be out in public. But people do get Covid when they go out, but thats just cause its so contagious and its not something your immune system knows how to fight yet.


----------



## Goatzrule

The governor put in orders that all day care workers must wear face masks while working. This is very frustrating, children especially those under need facial expressions to communicated. I dont get how this is a good idea, its already been shown that cloth face masks dont do much.


----------



## Iluvlilly!

Davi said:


> Thats not true at all! Your immune system wont go away unless you have some other problem. Your immune system is still working at home, just like it would be out in public. But people do get Covid when they go out, but thats just cause its so contagious and its not something your immune system knows how to fight yet.


Okay! Im not sure what to believe anymore:bonk:


----------



## Damfino

NDinKY said:


> Hoosier, the cloth masks don't really protect the wearer, rather they offer protection for everyone else.


I've heard this, but given the way people wear masks, I have a really hard time believing it. No one wears their masks properly. They fuss, fiddle, readjust, and (unlike underwear) they are constantly taking masks off then putting them back on. It's particularly amusing when people take their masks off to smoke (handling a cigarette that's been in their mouth), wipe their nose on their hand, sneeze, cough, or fix their makeup. In other words, people are handling their faces _constantly_, sometimes _because_ of the mask, and then touching everything else around them--the shopping cart, the door handle, the merchandise, etc. I confess I'm as guilty as anyone, and it's not intentional. But it does make me think that wearing masks isn't actually protecting anyone and may even be making contamination problems worse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if you work in the medical field, there's training on how to properly wear masks and gloves. If everyone naturally did it "right," training would not be necessary. Most people have never been trained.


----------



## NDinKY

There is definitely a correct and many incorrect ways to don and doff PPE. We had mandatory training on it. However, the main point of cloth masks is keeping those who are asymptomatic but infected from infecting others. So when they cough, speak, whatever else they do to spew droplets they keep their droplets to themselves. Now those wearing it with their nose hanging out might as well not be wearing one. Cloth masks don’t really protect the wearer, they protect everyone else. Surgical masks and N95 are a different ballgame.


----------



## Tanya

They are sooooo pretttyyyyy.
I want one. We have Dorpas. Meat sheep. They are not as cute....



goathiker said:


> No, we drove up to Washington to get them. I reserved the black paint, she was born on mother's day, and he threw in the little 3 day old. The older white one is my daughter's.
> They are high percentage East Frisian milk sheep.
> We also bought a Shetland ram lamb to improve the meat quality of the lamb crop.
> He can't be a house pet of course, makes rams too dangerous.
> The older ones will go outside as soon as the rain clears up. Frisian lambs are very susceptible to pneumonia.


----------



## Damfino

Iluvlilly! said:


> I have actually heard that if you stay home all the time your immune system goes way down and then when you do eventually go out the the real world you get Covid and everything else that's going around. Not real sure what to believe!


It's true over the long term, but not short term. Our bodies are designed to encounter pathogens and deal with them. This is why it's thought that if you raise children in a too-sterile environment, it sets them up for a lifetime of immune problems. But a healthy immune system won't crash from being isolated for a few weeks or months. What's unhealthy even in the short term is a constant intake of poor quality air. This is why getting outside is important for everyone. When people encounter something like the coronavirus and bring it to their house, staying inside where they are constantly re-breathing the same germs their body is trying to expel is a good way to get much sicker than if they are able to get outside where the germs can dissipate. The amount of viral exposure someone has is important to how sick it can make them. It's one reason we have seen more medical professionals get serious coronavirus infections than the general population. They are constantly bombarded by a high viral load.



NDinKY said:


> There is definitely a correct and many incorrect ways to don and doff PPE. We had mandatory training on it. However, the main point of cloth masks is keeping those who are asymptomatic but infected from infecting others. So when they cough, speak, whatever else they do to spew droplets they keep their droplets to themselves. Now those wearing it with their nose hanging out might as well not be wearing one. Cloth masks don't really protect the wearer, they protect everyone else. Surgical masks and N95 are a different ballgame.


Cloth masks protect everyone else IF they are not being handled constantly, which it seems like they are. I haven't seen anyone who can leave their mask alone. And after touching it (and the sneeze that's all over it) they handle all kinds of other stuff. This is why I'm doubting the theory that masks protect others. Better to sneeze in your elbow because most people don't handle their elbows. They do handle their masks. Then they handle everything in the grocery store. It's kind of gross.


----------



## NDinKY

Damfino said:


> They do handle their masks. Then they handle everything in the grocery store. It's kind of gross.


That's why handwashing and hand sanitizer use are so important. People are gross. Think about how many don't wash their hands after using the restroom.

Before I go in the store I put my phone in my purse and do not get it out until after I've finished shopping and sanitized my hands. I have my list, my contaminated pen, and hand sanitizer in an easily accessible pocket of my purse.


----------



## ksalvagno

Emotions and bad eating habits also bring down your immune system. So if you are at home feeling lonely and depressed and eating a poor diet because you are bored and depressed, you will lower your immune system. Add in poor air quality and you have a nice trifecta of lowering your immune system.


----------



## Goatzrule

I just wish we didnt have to wear the masks around kids. Adults understand why we are wearing them but an 18-month-old child is scared of the people in masks, they don't understand their facial expressions. 
The state is making it mandatory to keep each child six feet apart, how is that supposed to work with 13 kids?


----------



## Damfino

But most people I see are not using hand sanitizer. A few are, but most aren't in the habit so they fuss with their masks and then don't wash. I don't think it's intentional. It's just that it takes time and lots of practice to establish new habits and get good at them. This is why I would prefer if people did NOT wear germ-bags on their faces unless they are medical professionals who have had lots of training and practice to wear and handle masks properly. The way people are wearing them, I think they are more likely to make themselves and others sick!


----------



## Damfino

I just learned something the other day that made me super angry about one of the hospitals in Pueblo. I was speaking to a friend who is a nurse in the NICU (neonatal intensive care unit). She's getting a lot less hours because they've gone from an average of fourteen babies in the unit to just two in a week. I asked how this could be since it's not like women can cross their legs and avoid having a baby just because there's a pandemic going on! She said it's because the doctors aren't inducing labor any more. Unless it's an emergency, inducing labor is considered "elective." So now that women are waiting until they go into labor naturally, the birth problems have almost disappeared. Usually there are problems with breathing, nursing, jaundice, weak babies, etc. They bring these induced babies into the NICU for oxygen, feeding tubes, incubation, etc. and usually keep them an average of 2-3 days. The average two babies a week they've had in NICU during the lockdown have all stayed less than 24 hours and have gone home in better health than they usually ever see in NICU. 

I'm livid about this. It is medical malpractice. Doctors are apparently stressing out babies to the tune of a dozen or more every week in just one hospital. We don't even know what long-term problems they're causing, but I know from raising goats that low oxygen and difficulty feeding aren't things to mess around with. Even if most recover fully, there has to be a percentage that ends up with asthma or mental difficulty or some other long-term health problem that probably no one would ever link to induced labor. I think the nurse was pretty rattled by how much healthier babies are now that doctors are no longer inducing labor. I know it rattled me!


----------



## Goatzrule

Wow thats scary to think about. When I have kids someday I want to do it at one of those at home type facilities. Hospital birthing is just so unnatural with the bright lights and noises. What I was talking about with a friend is that the doctors at the hospital are trained if something goes wrong but they arent trained in how to do things naturally and easiest. Are we really supposed to be having babies on our backs when the most natural way is squatting? There is too much medical interference with everything it seems like


----------



## ksalvagno

Just goes to show that meddling in something that should be natural is not good.


----------



## luvmyherd

Davi said:


> So what probably happened is it took too long for the chicks to be picked up, more then 48 hours, or the box wasn't properly kept warm and they got too cold. So I wouldn't blame the company you bought them from!


After we got over our shock and anger I pretty much came to a similar conclusion. I figure they got there the day before and the PO did not call us until morning and left them in the cold building all night. Since the 2nd batch came perfect and healthy and are all still alive; we did not blame the company and were very grateful that they replaced them without question.



Damfino said:


> I just learned something the other day that made me super angry about one of the hospitals in Pueblo. I was speaking to a friend who is a nurse in the NICU (neonatal intensive care unit). She's getting a lot less hours because they've gone from an average of fourteen babies in the unit to just two in a week. I asked how this could be since it's not like women can cross their legs and avoid having a baby just because there's a pandemic going on! She said it's because the doctors aren't inducing labor any more. Unless it's an emergency, inducing labor is considered "elective." So now that women are waiting until they go into labor naturally, the birth problems have almost disappeared. Usually there are problems with breathing, nursing, jaundice, weak babies, etc. They bring these induced babies into the NICU for oxygen, feeding tubes, incubation, etc. and usually keep them an average of 2-3 days. The average two babies a week they've had in NICU during the lockdown have all stayed less than 24 hours and have gone home in better health than they usually ever see in NICU.
> 
> I'm livid about this. It is medical malpractice. Doctors are apparently stressing out babies to the tune of a dozen or more every week in just one hospital. We don't even know what long-term problems they're causing, but I know from raising goats that low oxygen and difficulty feeding aren't things to mess around with. Even if most recover fully, there has to be a percentage that ends up with asthma or mental difficulty or some other long-term health problem that probably no one would ever link to induced labor. I think the nurse was pretty rattled by how much healthier babies are now that doctors are no longer inducing labor. I know it rattled me!


In the hospital where 2 of my grandchildren were born there are signs up that warn of the dangers of induced labor. Yet they still do elective induction there. Go figger!



Goatzrule said:


> Wow thats scary to think about. When I have kids someday I want to do it at one of those at home type facilities. Hospital birthing is just so unnatural with the bright lights and noises. What I was talking about with a friend is that the doctors at the hospital are trained if something goes wrong but they arent trained in how to do things naturally and easiest. Are we really supposed to be having babies on our backs when the most natural way is squatting? There is too much medical interference with everything it seems like


I hope you get to have that experience. I have been present at the births of all 9 of my grandchildren. My younger daughter had her first in the hospital the second in a birthing center and the third at home. Though the home birth went perfectly and it was super cool to be able to tuck Mama and Baby into bed with no extra travel; I preferred the birthing center.
Behind those pretty draperies was all the medical equipment necessary for most possible emergencies and it was literally in the shadow of a hospital for an extreme emergency. As the grandmother; I liked knowing that.


----------



## Tanya

My oldest daughter is now 21 and I carried her 3 weeks over her due date. She was due 28 Nov but was born 20 Dec. No induction. She is the healthiest child I know. My youngest was a C Section because she was "too big" for natutal birth. She has weight issues, asthma and a low immune system. 
The mothers body is amazing. A baby will come when it is strong enough and ready.
Here in South Africa only emergencies result in C sections or inducing labour.
Moms are sent home untill natural labour happens.


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## Damfino

I was three weeks overdue as well, and I was breech. But the doctor gave me that extra time and I turned around at the last minute so I was able to be delivered normally. Nowadays that's completely unheard-of!


----------



## Tanya

Damfino said:


> I was three weeks overdue as well, and I was breech. But the doctor gave me that extra time and I turned around at the last minute so I was able to be delivered normally. Nowadays that's completely unheard-of!


See. Leaving baby is better unless the chord is around the neck. I am sorry I had a C section the second time round. At the moment when babies are born naturally, they let mom and baby home within 6 hours. Covid and all.


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## Goats Rock

When my mom was preg with her 5th kid, the doctor was retiring and mom was due the day after her retired, so they did the unthinkable! They INDUCED labor! The hospital lawyers were so worried that if the baby was flawed they would be sued. This was 1971!!! Not that long ago. (I am the oldest of 5, 4 brothers). Boy how times change! ( he was fine, no med. problems)


----------



## luvmyherd

We are going to attend a *social distancing* BBQ today. It is at our cousin's and they have a big back yard where folks from different households can be 6 feet apart but still communicate FtF. I really had not realized how much I miss people until we spoke with them from our car the other day.
It was our grandson's 14th birthday and we made a parade for him and drove around to his friend's and teacher's houses honking and displaying banners on our cars. I think it really helped lift his spirits after missing his 8th grade graduation (from a school he has attended since Kindergarten) and then his birthday as well.


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## Tanya

Well boys and girls. Here I am with "the virus which cannot be named" Yes the Rona.
I feel like a bus and then a 40ton truck has hit me. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh. 
I am in self quarentine with every one else. Only going to hospital if my respiration gets bad. I do not wish this on any of my enemies.


----------



## NDinKY

Tanya said:


> Well boys and girls. Here I am with "the virus which cannot be named" Yes the Rona.
> I feel like a bus and then a 40ton truck has hit me. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.
> I am in self quarentine with every one else. Only going to hospital if my respiration gets bad. I do not wish this on any of my enemies.


I'm so sorry you got it. One thing that can help is laying in the prone position (on your belly). It helps open up your lung fields. Hopefully yours resolved quickly, best wishes.


----------



## 21goaties

Tanya said:


> Well boys and girls. Here I am with "the virus which cannot be named" Yes the Rona.
> I feel like a bus and then a 40ton truck has hit me. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.
> I am in self quarentine with every one else. Only going to hospital if my respiration gets bad. I do not wish this on any of my enemies.


(pray)


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Please pay attention to your breathing. Every hour take a deep breath like a good yawn. Watch your temperature. And drink water. As much as you can. Even electrolites will help
I realize you arent a sick goat..or I would be suggestion LA200(embarrassed)
Please take care..keep us posted on your progress. So sorry


----------



## luvmyherd

I am so sorry to hear this Tanya. Hopefully you will be in the majority and recover quickly and totally.
I got a bit of a shock when my sister texted me that a friend of hers, here in California, has tested positive. This makes it so much more real.


Tanya said:


> "the virus which cannot be named"


I like your analogy; good comparison.


----------



## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Well boys and girls. Here I am with "the virus which cannot be named" Yes the Rona.
> I feel like a bus and then a 40ton truck has hit me. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.
> I am in self quarentine with every one else. Only going to hospital if my respiration gets bad. I do not wish this on any of my enemies.


Hope you feel better soon! Sleep as much as you can, and sleep on your belly if you're able.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

FYI ON 5G:

I am very close with one of the leading educators on 5G, who travels around the world educating and fighting 5G in court no less, to keep it out of our schools for children especially. 5G is real, and it is dangerous. But she herself has said that this is NOT 5G caused. Those who believe that it's one thing (5G) causing these issues definitely have some tunnel vision in my opinion. That's not to say that 5G isn't dangerous, or that it could perhaps lower someone's immune system making them more susceptible to illness - or that it could possibly be causing some of the pre-existing conditions that make COVID more severe.

And yes, it is in a sense "cell phone technology." It is what, when you are out and don't have wifi, allows you to use your smartphones. It is a microwave frequency from cell towers to your phones, and it is dangerous, just as smart phone radiation is.


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## Tanya

Thank you every one. We are waiting on my husbands test results too. If I were a goat I would be honoured to take all the goat advice that I could. 
My chest is very compacted and hurts so sleep is all I am doing. I cannot even go outside because there is a cold snap 
I will keep in touch.
Love ya all.


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## Goats Rock

Poor Tanya. Feel better soon. We are all thinking of you.


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## goathiker

Dextromethorphan, double dose of instructions. 
1/2 an aspirin once daily 
ZINC very important high dose
Vit C also important high dose
Tonic water (as in scotch and tonic) 


DON'T let them put you on a ventilator. Insist on blood oxygenation therapy, if you can. 

Get out into the sunshine and fresh air as much as possible. Keep your room well aired out.


----------



## Tanya

Thank you. I will certainly do all those things. My husband also tested positive. Chevani is negative. She is on her way to my sister in the city. Destiny will miss her most. I have made myself a nest in Destiny's holding paddok so she isnt lonely. Husband wants to stay in the bed. My brother is picking up all the medicine for us. So for 21 days I may have no contact with any one.
I am very tired though.


----------



## Tanya

Goatzrule said:


> Wow thats scary to think about. When I have kids someday I want to do it at one of those at home type facilities. Hospital birthing is just so unnatural with the bright lights and noises. What I was talking about with a friend is that the doctors at the hospital are trained if something goes wrong but they arent trained in how to do things naturally and easiest. Are we really supposed to be having babies on our backs when the most natural way is squatting? There is too much medical interference with everything it seems like


At home water birth is a very beautiful process and allows you to bond with baby in a way no other does.


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## goathiker

So is giving birth in the natural setting of the forest, doing what you normally do right up until you need to drop away.


----------



## goathiker

Tanya's, does SA make you fill out slavery contracts upon the birth of a child like the US does? Meaning, are you required to register the child with the state/country that he would be paying taxes for his right to work?


----------



## CaramelKittey

Tanya said:


> Well boys and girls. Here I am with "the virus which cannot be named" Yes the Rona.
> I feel like a bus and then a 40ton truck has hit me. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.
> I am in self quarentine with every one else. Only going to hospital if my respiration gets bad. I do not wish this on any of my enemies.


I'm so sorry to hear this. Are you able to get the Hydroxychloroquine?


----------



## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> Tanya's, does SA make you fill out slavery contracts upon the birth of a child like the US does? Meaning, are you required to register the child with the state/country that he would be paying taxes for his right to work?


This is interesting. And it's almost common knowledge now. I wonder...are there any countries that don't have this system of slavery?onder:


----------



## Tanya

CaramelKittey said:


> This is interesting. And it's almost common knowledge now. I wonder...are there any countries that don't have this system of slavery?onder:


We have to register our children within three days of birth. Their finger prints are done when they are born in hospital as well as foot prints.


----------



## Tanya

CaramelKittey said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this. Are you able to get the Hydroxychloroquine?


I am on Penicillin and strong steroids. They want me back at hospital in 7 days. I am not coughing but my chestbis tight. I am also on sinus medication and on probiotics. My imune system is not strong so it is a wait and see. But hey. I believe in positivity and care. So my back is covered at all times. I dont walk barefoot and when I have showered it is straight to bed. My bed is already booked if I get worse. I am praying it skips me. My husband is coughing. His antibiotics is stronger than mine.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Tanya said:


> I am on Penicillin and strong steroids. They want me back at hospital in 7 days. I am not coughing but my chestbis tight. I am also on sinus medication and on probiotics. My imune system is not strong so it is a wait and see. But hey. I believe in positivity and care. So my back is covered at all times. I dont walk barefoot and when I have showered it is straight to bed. My bed is already booked if I get worse. I am praying it skips me. My husband is coughing. His antibiotics is stronger than mine.


Feel better! Do you normally have a less strong immune system? I know for al ot of people, they are getting sick badly when they haven't gotten sick in years and years!


----------



## Tanya

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Feel better! Do you normally have a less strong immune system? I know for al ot of people, they are getting sick badly when they haven't gotten sick in years and years!


I had a brain tumor removed in 2001. Over the last 19 years I have developed Ostioperosis and am prone to picking up rven a little sniffle. Last year I had swine flu. I suffer from bronchiolitus during winter. But I never let this all get me down. I stay acti e and alive hence my shelter gor abandoned animals. I am a walking risk to everything.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Tanya said:


> I had a brain tumor removed in 2001. Over the last 19 years I have developed Ostioperosis and am prone to picking up rven a little sniffle. Last year I had swine flu. I suffer from bronchiolitus during winter. But I never let this all get me down. I stay acti e and alive hence my shelter gor abandoned animals. I am a walking risk to everything.


I am so sorry to hear that. I hope that you feel better very very soon!! :inlove:


----------



## luvmyherd

Oh Tanya! I hope you can just rest and rest and feel better soon.:hug:
We have a regular game night that has been cancelled for the past two months. We were really hoping to get together this month but alas; we have cancelled May and June as well. I really miss people. But I am counting our blessings.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Tanya..if you can get some vicks menthollatum. Any eucalyptus will help the brochial. You can even breathe in garlic being stewed will help.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Moers kiko boars said:


> Tanya..if you can get some vicks menthollatum. Any eucalyptus will help the brochial. You can even breathe in garlic being stewed will help.


And eat garlic too! LOL!


----------



## Goatzrule

praying for your recovery!


----------



## CaramelKittey

Tanya said:


> We have to register our children within three days of birth. Their finger prints are done when they are born in hospital as well as foot prints.


Thank you for the information. I've heard the footprints are actually taken to prove the children are linked to the soil they were born on. Have you heard this too?


----------



## CaramelKittey

Tanya said:


> I had a brain tumor removed in 2001. Over the last 19 years I have developed Ostioperosis and am prone to picking up rven a little sniffle. Last year I had swine flu. I suffer from bronchiolitus during winter. But I never let this all get me down. I stay acti e and alive hence my shelter gor abandoned animals. I am a walking risk to everything.


I am so sorry you have had to deal with all that. Please get better soon. :hug:


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

NDinKY said:


> Hoosier, the cloth masks don't really protect the wearer, rather they offer protection for everyone else. Think of it like underwear and pants. If you're standing next to someone and they pee (cough) with nothing on, it's likely to get all over you. If you have pants (a mask) on, less is likely to get on your body, but your pants (mask) still gets soiled. But if they pee (cough) and have their pants/underwear (mask) on, they keep their contamination mostly to themselves, making it less likely to spread.


Nice!! I love that!


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

Oh my goodness Tanya! I am so sorry!

I have seen some studies that keeping your cholesterol normal is important. A lot of the younger people who are dying had a rapid drop in cholesterol. Not sure if it is true it not, but worth a shot


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

My daughter has picked up watercolor out of boredom, and I am impressed! She is a very active child, so she is usually doing her paintings at night before bed, when she is winding down for the day. I took pics of the paintings around the house, but she has quite a few more, but are stowed away in her room somewhere .
The lamb and goat paintings are for her twin friends birthday. We plan on dropping them off in their mail box along with some stuff she knitted them. They show market animals for 4h























She did the whale and bear tonight. She says she messed up the little lines on the whales belly, but oh well. I think they are pretty good for a 13 year old who has never really done art before!!















She hates the deer! But it was one of her first paintings, and I like it lol!








this one is her favorite! She spent a really long time in this little bunny!!

I thought I would share since this is a product form the Covid quarantine!!


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

Can you tell who the animal lover is in the house??


----------



## Tanya

They are all beautiful. 
Hey. If God wanted me to mope about all the rocks rolled on my path, I would not be here at all today.
@nigeriandwarf those are really lovely. Its really relaxing to paint.


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## MellonFriend

Those are beautiful! I recently discovered I enjoy watercolor too. I particularly love that bunny. She's definitely got some real talent!


----------



## Tanya

Moers kiko boars said:


> Tanya..if you can get some vicks menthollatum. Any eucalyptus will help the brochial. You can even breathe in garlic being stewed will help.


I love garlic. Will try. Thank you


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat

MellonFriend said:


> Those are beautiful! I recently discovered I enjoy watercolor too. I particularly love that bunny. She's definitely got some real talent!


I have always loved the way watercolor painting look. 
She also likes the bunny! She took a while to do that one!!


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## MellonFriend

I only recently started liking using watercolor because I started using artist quality paints. I always assumed that Crayola watercolor was basically what the medium was like, but man does artist quality make a difference. If you are interested, I got a set by the company Prima in their water color confections line. I would highly recommend them!


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## Moers kiko boars

Very pretty paintings. Her blending and detail are very good. Its funny you can see her confidence increasing as she goes from the deer to the bunn . She has a real talent!


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## luvmyherd

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> She says she messed up the little lines on the whales belly, but oh well. I think they are pretty good for a 13 year old who has never really done art before!!


Well, lines in nature are never perfectly symmetrical are they? I think her paintings are wonderful. My 14yo granddaughter does similar art. I wish I had even a tiny bit of artistic ability.

Moving day for chicks. The 6 week olds will be moved to the old rabbit enclosure (totally cleaned and sanitized) so they will have indoor/outdoor access but be protected from predators. The 4 week olds will go to the kennel where there is still heat at night.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

MellonFriend said:


> I only recently started liking using watercolor because I started using artist quality paints. I always assumed that Crayola watercolor was basically what the medium was like, but man does artist quality make a difference. If you are interested, I got a set by the company Prima in their water color confections line. I would highly recommend them!


She uses simply watercolors
https://www.etsy.com/listing/806602...JVQH1fIc9lEczqRvF7-Cm9LGRw2gpfWxoCNoQQAvD_BwE

and she uses the essential foldable watercolors
https://thetotzone.com/products/fol...rz864-ixFESRTLIdo34Gd4xi7Y4yewvxoC6GAQAvD_BwE

She likes that one better because they are easier to use, instead of getting out the tubes and the mixing plate thing, she just takes that out and is set.



MellonFriend said:


> If you are interested, I got a set by the company Prima in their water color confections line. I would highly recommend them!


I will tell her about that one! Thank you for sharing!


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## CaramelKittey

Those are beautiful. Your daughter has a real eye for color choice and blending. The shading on the paintings are great! (thumbup)


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## Tanya

Any changes to your countries lockdown?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Tanya said:


> Any changes to your countries lockdown?


Things in jersey are opening up a bit. Mostly outdoors.


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## MellonFriend

Our local economy (NC) is starting the reopening process. We now have non essential businesses open with limited capacity and mandatory face masks.

Lots of sports organizations are figuring out their schemes for restarting sports. NASCAR is back and that has gone well so far.


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## Tanya

We still need travel permits. I an in isolation. I hear allot of people hear are refusing to wear masks.
Opening schools fell flat but liquor sales were a huge success.


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## toth boer goats

Very nice art.


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## Damfino

Our local restaurants are allowed to open at half capacity and all employees are required to wear masks. Sadly, one of the best and certainly the longest-standing restaurant in our community announced their permanent closure this past weekend. I'm angry about that. Everyone ate at Max's. It was a wonderful roadside diner of the sort you don't often see these days and they made great down-home food. I wonder how many other local businesses will go under in the next few months? This place could be a ghost down when all is said and done. We're going to still do take-out with the restaurants that are left until the mask thing goes away. I can't stand the idea of "zombie apocalypse" dining. We're not going to church any more for the same reason. They started indoor services again but removed half the chairs and are encouraging masks. No thanks. I'm pushing for them to hold services outside until we can meet indoors like normal people. On the plus side, our saddle club is going gangbusters right now. 

The riots have certainly turned the news away from coronavirus lately. People are going nuts in the cities I hear. This is what comes of keeping people on lockdown and destroying their jobs. Loads of people have nothing better to do than go out and create chaos right now. After all, what have they got left to lose? 

Hope you're feeling better, Tanya.


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## Tanya

Damfino said:


> Our local restaurants are allowed to open at half capacity and all employees are required to wear masks. Sadly, one of the best and certainly the longest-standing restaurant in our community announced their permanent closure this past weekend. I'm angry about that. Everyone ate at Max's. It was a wonderful roadside diner of the sort you don't often see these days and they made great down-home food. I wonder how many other local businesses will go under in the next few months? This place could be a ghost down when all is said and done. We're going to still do take-out with the restaurants that are left until the mask thing goes away. I can't stand the idea of "zombie apocalypse" dining. We're not going to church any more for the same reason. They started indoor services again but removed half the chairs and are encouraging masks. No thanks. I'm pushing for them to hold services outside until we can meet indoors like normal people. On the plus side, our saddle club is going gangbusters right now.
> 
> The riots have certainly turned the news away from coronavirus lately. People are going nuts in the cities I hear. This is what comes of keeping people on lockdown and destroying their jobs. Loads of people have nothing better to do than go out and create chaos right now. After all, what have they got left to lose?
> 
> Hope you're feeling better, Tanya.


I saw the news reports. Its sad that so many people are involved in something so pointless. The byildings being destroyed and jobs being lost in the long run are definately not worth it. But you are right. It is a distraction from the Rona.
It is very sad that a man died at the hands of the people who serve and protect.
I am getting there. I sleep allot at the moment. My chest burns terribly when I wheeze. My girls help allot though.
We can also go to church but only 50 people at a time. Being a Catholic that is almost impossible.


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## CaramelKittey

Parks have been opening up down here. Libraries are still closed. We honestly aren't sure if we will be back in school by September. There is talk of closing schools until January but we will see how that goes.

Now everybody is talking about the riots. I agree 100% @Damfino. These riots are definetely a distraction from the Coronavirus.


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## luvmyherd

Our governor seems determined to move on to *phase 3* of reopening; cases on the rise notwithstanding. I really do not know what is best but as a senior citizen I am going to stay home as much as possible until I feel safe. Luckily I do not have a job that I need to get back to. I can definitely feel for people who need to get back to work and need their children to be able to go to school.
We have not had a lot of unrest but enough that I felt uncomfortable going in to grocery shop today. We decided to wait. I am so angry at the senselessness that I can barely speak.

More than anything; I just want to get out and travel. Instead we are raising chickens and expanding our deck so we have a nice place to sit outside for the summer.


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## Tanya

This is my view from my bed. My girls decided to cheer me up with my own fishtank in my room. Destiny visited me today as well. For the most part I am alone in the main house.


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## luvmyherd

Tanya said:


> My girls decided to cheer me up with my own fishtank in my room.


That is adorable. I certainly hope you feel better soon.


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## CaramelKittey

I’m glad to hear you have Destiny and your girls to support you! Please get better soon. :hug:


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## luvmyherd

Well, I guess people have gotten their cupboards well stocked again. We went to WM at 6AM for senior hour and there were only about 20 cars in the parking lot. No lines and we were back home by 7:30.
They were by no means fully stocked but we were able to get everything we needed except creamed corn. Who'd of thought there would be a creamed corn shortage? They had lots of good fresh vegetables.

How are you doing Tanya? I think of you and yours often.(pray)


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## Damfino

Tanya would be doing a lot better if her poor baby goat hadn't been drop-kicked by some pathetic excuse for a human being yesterday. 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads...-i-have-some-serious-questions.212459/page-10


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## luvmyherd

Thank you for the link. I had no idea. What an awful thing.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes Thankyou..thats awful.!


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## HoosierShadow

I'm so sorry Tanya, I hope you feel better soon. I didn't see the thread either about her situation with the goat so I will have to check that out 

Things seem to be getting better here, but in the last week cases have nearly doubled for our county. Most someone had posted on our local county FB page were very mild symptoms and a 4mo with no symptoms. 

I was over due for the grocery, so I went today and it's almost back to normal. No salad bar, but everything else has been open/available for a few weeks at the least. No signs for limiting meats, and the fresh meat counter was fully stocked, and meats out in the coolers well stocked. The last few times I'd gone it was hard to find decent cuts of beef.
The only thing not back to normal is hand soap and sanitizer and the Lysol cleaning sprays. Toilet paper & paper towels seem to be back to normal although I think they are offering more big packs than they used to. I got a 30 roll pack of good store brand toilet paper for $10.50, I thought that was a great deal. 

Restaurants have opened back up I want to say 1/2 capacity for indoor? The busy restaurant near us has several tables set up outside - outside dining only or curbside pick up. They have been very busy the last week, which is normal.

Unfortunately, I still can not work my part time/seasonal job. The Governor refuses to let media in at the horse tracks, ugh! It's ridiculous. So I'm sure that also means no work next month when our track gets to recoup 4 or 5 days since they had to cancel the April spring meet. It's just not right  Now I'm not sure what to do about the fall races, I can guarantee media will be limited like crazy, so that means I may not get to work the KY derby unless the website decides to keep it to locals only. It honestly wouldn't hurt my feelings, but I worry more about our track racing in Oct and then a major event in November. If I can't work these jobs I need to consider getting a part time job especially since my arm and neck seem to be well enough to consider it. Nowhere near normal, but not as bad as it had been.


----------



## Tanya

NDinKY said:


> I'm so sorry you got it. One thing that can help is laying in the prone position (on your belly). It helps open up your lung fields. Hopefully yours resolved quickly, best wishes.


I am 24 days in and only now is the symptoms getting lighter. I was at hospital on Monday. They say I should come back in 10 days to be retested. My husband is still in an oxygen tent. He is a smoker. But we are getting there.


----------



## CaramelKittey

Tanya said:


> I am 24 days in and only now is the symptoms getting lighter. I was at hospital on Monday. They say I should come back in 10 days to be retested. My husband is still in an oxygen tent. He is a smoker. But we are getting there.


Please get well soon! :hug:
I'm so sorry about what happened to Destiny. Hoping you both get better with haste! :hug:


----------



## Damfino

HoosierShadow said:


> Things seem to be getting better here, but in the last week cases have nearly doubled for our county. Most someone had posted on our local county FB page were very mild symptoms and a 4mo with no symptoms.


I keep reading that _cases_ are going up dramatically everywhere, but I haven't seen any reports of hospitals being crowded or death rates climbing. If anything, hospitalizations and death rates seem to keep going down. They seem to have practically flat-lined in Colorado. Personally, I think it's because tests are much more widely available now than they were even a month ago. I'm guessing that cases were actually higher back then but only symptomatic ones were being found. I'm also guessing this virus isn't as strong in summertime, which would follow the typical pattern. If it's true that the virus is weaker (and/or immune systems are stronger) in summertime, then it would be much better for people in this hemisphere to get sick now than next winter. Folks likely have a better shot at fighting the virus off with mild or no symptoms this time of year, and it's easier to self-medicate with fresh air and sunshine, which are proven immune-boosters.


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## Goatzrule

My mom was telling how horrible it is to get tested. She called it a brain swab. Now I understand why so many with symptoms don't want to get tested.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Goatzrule said:


> My mom was telling how horrible it is to get tested. She called it a brain swab. Now I understand why so many with symptoms don't want to get tested.


When my daughter gets the flu, we have to hold her down to swab up her nose because she will literally grab the docs hand and fight against her out of instinct


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## Goats Rock

There must be a better way to test! No brain swab for me, Thankyou! (Had that type of swab done done once, it hurts!) mg:


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## toth boer goats

mg: OH my


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## Moers kiko boars

I dont blame your daughter at all!


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## happybleats

Yes..we call it the brain probe. My daughter who was 911 dispatch (now is police academy) had to be tested..she was negative.. My Dr friend has tested pos. 2 times already. Guess the once only idea is not true. While things seem to be falling back to normal around here there is still a shortage of some foods. Tomatoe products were bare shelved when I went shopping Friday. 
Damfino I think you are correct..more wide testing is giving the illusion of more cases. Im ready to have our world back. Sadly I think we will be dealing with one issue after another until elections.  
Praise God for farm life.


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## Damfino

This is why my goats hated the Mycoplasma ovipneumonia (M.ovi) tests we did a few years ago. I thought, "Gee, are they doing a brain swab??" Not very fun. 

We've had some good things come of the coronavirus fiasco this season. My saddle club has never been busier. People are flooding to our arena to compete in gymkhanas and team sorting events. Someone recently approached us to ask about putting on a cowboy mounted shooting event because it seems like every other arena in Colorado is still closed (I'm sure that's not true, but an awful lot are still not doing events). We had 80 teams at our sorting last Friday. I didn't get home until 11:00 that night. We have more members now than we've ever had since I've been living here. If this keeps up we're going to be able to afford some real improvements at our arena!


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## Damfino

happybleats said:


> My Dr friend has tested pos. 2 times already. Guess the once only idea is not true. =


Yeah well, I was talking to a physician friend of mine who said the tests are not the most accurate. I think they're getting better (at least, I hope they are!), but he told me back in early April that they were getting as many as 20% false positives where he was working.

It's also possible that people can shed the virus (likely killed viral particles) for a long time after recovering.

If people can get sick again immediately after recovering, then this an unusual type of virus for which our immune systems can't create effective antibodies and there will never be a vaccine. Them's just the facts.


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## Tanya

The test is painful. We do the brain swab and blood tests. I am negative now. Ny nose actially still hurts though and my throught still hurts too. They take a throat swab here as well. Makes you want to gag.


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## luvmyherd

I am so happy you are negative and I hope I *NEVER* have to be *brain swabbed*!
I am so grateful we got our shopping done last week. There seemed to be a lull. Now, cases are up and there is a potential for protests/riots that is keeping us at home as well.


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## luvmyherd

Well, I guess maybe I have actually moved into the 21st century! Not being a high (or barely low) tech person I did not even know what ZOOM was 4 months ago. 
Last night we did a *conference* pizza night with several friends with whom we have pizza the 3rd Friday of every month. It was actually more fun than I expected and we all got caught up. Poor Andy lives alone and barely goes out; at least I have a husband and a son around the house.


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## CaramelKittey

luvmyherd said:


> Well, I guess maybe I have actually moved into the 21st century! Not being a high (or barely low) tech person I did not even know what ZOOM was 4 months ago.
> Last night we did a *conference* pizza night with several friends with whom we have pizza the 3rd Friday of every month. It was actually more fun than I expected and we all got caught up. Poor Andy lives alone and barely goes out; at least I have a husband and a son around the house.


That's great!
We have had to use Zoom for our 4-H meetings and the technical difficulties are insane.:haha:


----------



## luvmyherd

Well, our county has had a ridiculous surge in cases. And I do not think it is entirely due to more testing. Hospitalizations are way up as well. Most everything that was opened up has been reclosed. Not sure how much good any of it is doing as there are many counties with restaurants and activities still open. So people from closed counties will be traveling to the open ones and spreading germs around.
Our local fireworks were cancelled which I do not understand at all. Most of us watch from our cars anyway. They could close the watching area and still let the show go on.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes I hear you. Its awful. My state has had more deaths lately..than when it first hit. I really dont understand why people wont wear masks. Yes I know they are a pain, hot, and uncomfortable..but they stop the spread! Why is that so hard to understand? Its ashame we cant think of others long enough to wear a mask in a store.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

It is mandatory in every single town in texas that has over 20 cases (literally every town lol!) to wear a mask.


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## luvmyherd

We have a mask mandate but it is not being enforced.


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## Moers kiko boars

I think all stores should put up a sign..
NO.SHIRT
NO.SHOES
NO.MASK
NO SERVICE! 
THANKYOU


----------



## jschies

There have been 399 deaths out of every 1 million people in the United States from Covid 19. I know several people who have been exposed, but not one who has it. I know that some people are getting really sick from this, but I sure don't know any. My husband and son are really having a hard time dealing with being told to wear masks and they aren't unreasonable people. They are educated and absolutely not trouble makers. I will be so glad when this is all over.


----------



## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> I think all stores should put up a sign..
> NO.SHIRT
> NO.SHOES
> NO.MASK
> NO SERVICE!
> THANKYOU


Our local grocery has a sign that says, "WE HAVE ARMED SECURITY." All the cashier ladies are open carrying now. They've had too many altercations and threats over toilet paper, ground beef, wearing/not wearing masks, and people complaining about cashiers and customers wearing guns. I think carrying firearms is recommended more than wearing masks these days. I guess it may help enforce social distance.

As a dedicated recreational pot state, we see signs that say "No shirt, no shoes, no problem."

Saw someone in a WWI type gas mask last month though. Cracked me up.

This is an interesting story. One of my friends just got back from Arizona because her son had a traumatic head injury and stroke and landed in Banner Hospital, which incidentally I'd seen on the news recently as being one of those reporting a full Covid ICU. Well this lady and her husband went down there to be with their daughter-in-law who was in distress because they wouldn't let her be with her husband despite him having a traumatic head injury. She was in even greater distress because they'd stuck him straight in the Covid ward even though he didn't have Covid. Policy was to assume he was positive until he tested negative, so they stuck him in with the Covid patients and disallowed an advocate despite him being unable to advocate for himself.

So his family went into protest mode, made signs and picketed the hospital. They were joined by other families that had similar stories. After being there all weekend, they were finally joined by a young woman who asked why they were protesting. When they explained, she said she was an investigator with the federal government. She'd interviewed Banner Health representatives and had been assured that they were accurately reporting Covid numbers and were allowing patient advocates. After speaking with the protesters, the investigator had words with the hospital. It's against federal law to prevent a patient from having an advocate when they can't speak for themselves. Within a few hours, the hospital changed policy and started allowing advocates. I'm not sure if they moved non-Covid patients out of the Covid ward, but hopefully they did. I can't think of a better way to spread disease than to pack all the patients without Covid into the Covid ward on assumption. Nor a better way to pad your Covid numbers. Was it an attempt to get more federal aid or something? I have no idea. And if the Covid ward is full because you've added a lot of non-Covid patients, what do the real Covid patients do? It was thoroughly messed up, but I'm glad the protesters got the attention of a federal investigator. Sounds like a pretty shady hospital. Hopefully my friend's son doesn't end up with Covid on top of his head injury.


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh my word, now that is terrible they were exposing the innocent and people who do not have covid. 

Prayers for your friends son and family.


----------



## CaramelKittey

They have now canceled the fireworks in quite a few towns/cities in NJ..


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Damfino thats an awesome story. Its good to see positive changes. Im sooo sorry for your friends heartache and im praying for the recovery of the young man.
I dont agree with that hospitals way of thinking positive corid...till proven neg. Thats just wrong!


----------



## NDinKY

Where I work, patients are all covid rule out until tested negative. That doesn’t mean they go to a special floor but it does mean we have to take covid precautions. Fortunately the tests come back pretty quickly, sometimes within a few hours. We have had surprise covid cases, coming in for nothing related. Also a lot of pneumonia and respiratory distress that are covid negative. We don’t usually see so much lung stuff in the summer, that’s usually more a winter thing, so who knows. Census is back up, not a ton of covid positive yet, we shall see what happens in the next week or so. 

Damfino, I’m sorry your friend had to go through that. There should be patient advocates at the hospital to represent the best interests of the patient. The health system is probably freaking out a bit. I wonder if he wasn’t just in the MICU vs a Covid only unit. Covid pts requiring intubation are going to be in the ICU. Most places don’t have two medical icus so if he required that level of care they might not have had a choice. Some might only have one icu and not separate out surgery/trauma, medical, and neuro. Hope he’s doing better.


----------



## Damfino

Taking Covid precautions is fine... putting all patients in a Covid ward until proven negative is not. It sounds like it took much longer than a few hours to get the lab results back, probably because it was over a weekend and maybe the lab closes? I'm not sure. Anyway, the hospital sounds very shady if they lied to a federal investigator and she had to find out the truth from family members standing on the street outside. No one should have to deal with dishonest hospital staff and policies on top of injury or sickness. 

I think the constant dishonesty is what has me wearier than anything else surrounding this Covid-19 outbreak. Colorado was one of the first states to audit our Covid-19 death tolls and ended up removing a good 20-25% of egregiously false "Covid" cases. I think the most notorious was a person who died with 3 times more alcohol in his bloodstream than is considered lethal, but they declared it a Covid death anyway. That's when our governor put his foot down. I got so weary of hearing that beaches and parks and campgrounds were unsafe, but as soon as protests started, the media finally admitted that the virus is not easily transmitted outdoors. I could go on but I won't. I just wish there were more honesty in the media. While I'm already wishing, I'd also like a pet giraffe.


----------



## ksalvagno

We know someone whose friend lost their daughter from a horse kick to the head. The death certificate said Covid-19. The parents were livid since that was not how their daughter died. How many more have really died from other causes but the hospital likes getting that $38,000 per covid death.


----------



## Sfgwife

ksalvagno said:


> We know someone whose friend lost their daughter from a horse kick to the head. The death certificate said Covid-19. The parents were livid since that was not how their daughter died. How many more have really died from other causes but the hospital likes getting that $38,000 per covid death.


Exactly! Such bull hockey! So sorry for your friends!


----------



## CaramelKittey

ksalvagno said:


> We know someone whose friend lost their daughter from a horse kick to the head. The death certificate said Covid-19. The parents were livid since that was not how their daughter died. How many more have really died from other causes but the hospital likes getting that $38,000 per covid death.


I'm so sorry to hear that. That's awful, and the hospital making money off of lying like that is just plain wicked.


----------



## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

I agree with "weary" from the dishonesty. It has all been so taxing. Not just the Covid lies and misinformation but the fact that I now find myself not sure what to even believe, in general, from what is being reported. From Sports, to Weather to the murder of George Floyd, not to mention all the protesting and riots. We had 2 separate peaceful protest here local with armed civilians guarding local memorials and NOTHING happened. The protesters were peaceful. Marched and chanted, peacefully. The armed guys guarded the WWII Memorial and the Korean War Memorial, with no problems. Both groups came together and talked about supporting each others positions. BUT THAT'S NOT NEWSWORTHY. So, I have given up on what's reported. Oh, and I wish for some River Otters......since we are making a list......


----------



## Moers kiko boars

I agree :up:..If the story is Not a Lie..Flambouyant..or causes chaos or disrupts our moral values...Its not reported.


----------



## luvmyherd

The press has become a scourge on all sides of the proverbial *isle*.
I have literally opened my news feed to see two totally conflicting headlines side by side!.
I *can* handle the truth and wish I could find it.


----------



## goathiker

The whole world is out of control. I've spent a couple weeks following videos hoping that the people beating and killing others would take their masks off. Isolate the pic and send it in. It gets to your soul after awhile.

Has anyone heard from the gal from S Africa? Last I knew her animals had been maimed and I know that farmers are being targeted there.

There's been a lot of good news as well, it's just not being reported. Over the last few months there have been literally hundreds of child predators put away. One bust in particular was over 300 adults including teachers, police, social workers, etc. More than 350 children were saved alive.

The best thing to do is just stay home and out of the violence as much as possible. Easy for most of us, not so easy for city dwellers. The disinformation is designed to tear everyone down. It's the same process that was used to destabilize the middle east years ago. I have never seen such hate in this country, not on this scale anyway, and I've been here a long time lol.

It will come right in the end. We already know that no matter what God, Light, Allah, G_D, Yeshua WINS.

That probably broke all the rules but, it needs said, and the whole stupid mess is political


----------



## jschies

Thank you for saying it!


----------



## Damfino

goathiker said:


> Has anyone heard from the gal from S Africa? Last I knew her animals had been maimed and I know that farmers are being targeted there.


That one wasn't political. It was an employee with a bad temper who took it out on a baby goat. The employee was fired and the goat had bladder surgery and is doing well now and has a new buddy. You can read the story here: 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads...-i-have-some-serious-questions.212459/page-10


----------



## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

goathiker said:


> The whole world is out of control. I've spent a couple weeks following videos hoping that the people beating and killing others would take their masks off. Isolate the pic and send it in. It gets to your soul after awhile.
> 
> Has anyone heard from the gal from S Africa? Last I knew her animals had been maimed and I know that farmers are being targeted there.
> 
> There's been a lot of good news as well, it's just not being reported. Over the last few months there have been literally hundreds of child predators put away. One bust in particular was over 300 adults including teachers, police, social workers, etc. More than 350 children were saved alive.
> 
> The best thing to do is just stay home and out of the violence as much as possible. Easy for most of us, not so easy for city dwellers. The disinformation is designed to tear everyone down. It's the same process that was used to destabilize the middle east years ago. I have never seen such hate in this country, not on this scale anyway, and I've been here a long time lol.
> 
> It will come right in the end. We already know that no matter what God, Light, Allah, G_D, Yeshua WINS.
> 
> That probably broke all the rules but, it needs said, and the whole stupid mess is political


Thank you!!


----------



## luvmyherd

Well, we have had it and are taking a trip!! *BUT* we are doing it responsibly. We will self quarantine for two weeks at home and in the RV. Then we will either be going to Michigan or Seattle depending. (In either case it will be to visit children and grandchildren and no one else.) The motor home is fully self-contained so we do not have to do anything except buy gas which can be done at the pump with a credit card and no contact. (The DH even wears gloves to pump the gas.)
This means grocery shopping for 5 weeks of food and sundry items. Started today with Trader Joe's and the Grocery Outlet. Got some looks for the amount of stuff. Tomorrow we will hit WM to get enough for our son while we are gone. Then the total isolation will start. At least we have something to look forward to.
I was pleased to see that the *Health Food Store* where we get our raw milk has decided to comply with the mask mandate. Up to now they have been stubborn.


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## luvmyherd

Well, the virus who must not be named has hit close to home. My mother-in-law has tested positive. Not too surprising as she is in a memory care home and they got their first case about 3 weeks ago. She has no symptoms so far and has been put in quarantine. We have not been able to see her since March. She is 95 and has dementia and has had two heart attacks in the past year. So there will be no curative care if it comes to that. We can only hope that if she has to die from this that it is quick and trauma free.
She has been begging for the good lord to take her home so maybe it is time.

We are still taking a trip. Michigan is out and I really never had much hope for that. But my daughter in Seattle said that we could come if we quarantine for two weeks. Or plan is to drive up the California and Oregon coasts taking our time.
But we all know about the best laid plans.....................
My daughter has been sick for 12 days and her doctor has done a Covid test. We will not know the results until Monday. I may just lose it for good if she has it. She has 3 children and the thought of the whole family getting sick is too much for me. She has kept herself isolated in her bedroom. Prayers and any good thought welcome.


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent


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## Tanya

luvmyherd said:


> Well, the virus who must not be named has hit close to home. My mother-in-law has tested positive. Not too surprising as she is in a memory care home and they got their first case about 3 weeks ago. She has no symptoms so far and has been put in quarantine. We have not been able to see her since March. She is 95 and has dementia and has had two heart attacks in the past year. So there will be no curative care if it comes to that. We can only hope that if she has to die from this that it is quick and trauma free.
> She has been begging for the good lord to take her home so maybe it is time.
> 
> We are still taking a trip. Michigan is out and I really never had much hope for that. But my daughter in Seattle said that we could come if we quarantine for two weeks. Or plan is to drive up the California and Oregon coasts taking our time.
> But we all know about the best laid plans.....................
> My daughter has been sick for 12 days and her doctor has done a Covid test. We will not know the results until Monday. I may just lose it for good if she has it. She has 3 children and the thought of the whole family getting sick is too much for me. She has kept herself isolated in her bedroom. Prayers and any good thought welcome.


Prayers to you and your family. This is not a pretty virus. I am so sorry your mother in law is possitive. May God keep her safe.


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## Goats Rock

Prayers to you all.


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## GoofyGoat

Prayers to you and yours!


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## Moers kiko boars

Oh my goodness. Im sending prayers! So sorry for the illness attacking your family members.


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## luvmyherd

Thank you all. Our daughter got her test results today and it was negative. Can't tell you what a relief that is. Do wonder how she picked up the funky virus she has since she has been home almost exclusively the whole time.

No new word on the MIL.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

So happy she is negative. Did they say why she is sick? Just a summer cold (as I suspect)? Our little 2 yr old grandson was sick a couple of months ago and his Pediatrician did so many freaking tests, all came back negative and he said, "Honestly, you get so many false positives and false negatives from the flu test and the Corona test... the only one I trust is the strep test." I just stared at him. So who and what do we trust?!?!?!? I am beyond happy you are taking your trip. I wish we could take off but this is bee season and the virus doesn't affect our industry, as we work outside in the field and are only around each other and hives. God Speed and good luck! Have fun and stay safe!


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## Oliveoil

Well I heard there was a 30% fail rate with the corona test. Meaning we shut down the country based on a test that is only right 70% of the time....that's awful


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## Tanya

I am so glad your daughter is negative. This virus is hard to recover from. It took me all of 21 days before I tested negative. My husband did not have that chance. I kept my girls and goats and animals at arms length because I won't risk their lives.
I hope your in law recovers too. :-(


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## toth boer goats

Praying for all.


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## Damfino

Viruses are funny things... I'm guessing we all come in contact with many of these cold/flu family of bugs on a regular basis, but whether you actually get sick from them or not may be highly individual. 

Skimmed two different articles today: One said Covid-19 antibodies only last 2-3 months and that this doesn't bode well for a working vaccine. The other said researchers are optimistic that an effective vaccine is on the horizon and early tests show promise. So much conflicting information floating around out there... 

Even if antibodies don't last, I'm going to guess that this virus is similar to many others of its type and that our bodies will recognize it and be better at fighting off subsequent infections without triggering an overreaction by the immune system.


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## luvmyherd

I could go crazy with all the conflicting stories/reports. I do fear that my daughter could have gotten a false negative as her symptoms have been spot on and all they can come up with is crazy virus.
On the other hand my MIL has remained symptom free and I wonder if she got a false positive. 

My daughter is staying away from her kids and husband until her symptoms are gone. Her doctor has told her she is past the point of contagion but that is another, *how do they know that?* moment as guidelines change daily. This is so hard for her as she is a real huggy, touchy person. We have been spending more than an hour a day on the phone to help with her boredness.


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## goathiker

If you do drive up the coast plan to drive straight through Lincoln county. It's a redzone. The smugglers are bringing the virus in with them. Avoid Portland, the riots are ongoing and involve a lot of fire. 
The coast is actually probably the safest route right now. The some of little towns won't sell supplies to out of towners, we're having a hard time getting grocery deliveries.


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## luvmyherd

Thanks for the heads up. We plan to travel fully stocked so all we will need is gas and possibly propane and fresh water. We are pretty good at conserving. 
We may do an about face and head east to Arkansas. My sister lives in a small town that is pretty safe. She said we could come if we do a 2-week quarantine. She has plenty of room for us to park the RV as well so we could social distance visit for the 1st week too.


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## luvmyherd

Well, Coronavirus notwithstanding, we are heading out. We are going to share a house at Clearlake with our daughter's family for the weekend This is in lieu of the Disneyland trip we had planned this month.








We will be staying in our RV and only sharing the outside deck and the fishing pier. 
Then we will be off to Arkansas to visit my sister. We do not know exactly how we will distance but we plan to see what we feel comfortable with. We're fine with staying in the RV and hanging in the yard by the pool.


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## Goatzrule

Stay safe @luvmyherd !
So i have been looking at going back to school and the restrictions put in place look miserable. A lot of my classes are cancelled and online. The campus would be shut down so we would have to stay in our dorm. Depression on campus will be at a high. I am petitioning the school to let me take a gap semester. I found an internship in South Dakota at a deer farm. Praying they accept the petition. I couldn't survive the half semester online, no way I could do a whole semester with the risk of being sent back home at anytime
Talking about what to do with my snowbird grandmother. Cant send her back to Florida so it looks like she will be staying with us until its safe. Moms going to have a hard time. Love my nana but she is a traditional housewife with strong views on how to keep a house. My mom is not that...
Any tips to keep the piece?


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## toth boer goats

(console)


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## luvmyherd

Goatzrule said:


> Any tips to keep the piece?


Well, I have been married almost 50 years and was never able to *keep the peace* with my mother in law. So no advice just well wishes. These times are especially hard.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

If I were your mom, I would let her clean until her heart's content! It would keep her out of her hair, and she is staying busy. Plus mom gets a really clean house!


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## Damfino

Damfino said:


> I'm sorry you think I'm endangering people's lives by going out for "non-essentials" but it's something I've done my whole life, knowing that every time I drive anywhere I am potentially endangering myself and others. I firmly believe that driving my truck 8 miles to the store is putting myself and other people in far more danger than the act of breathing in the same space, but no one has ever demanded that I should feel guilty about driving except a few environmental extremists. I'm weary of being told I should feel guilty for living.


Wow... so this statement I made a couple of months ago really came back in a very serious and concrete way this afternoon. I'm currently vacationing with my in-laws in South Dakota (a vacation we planned about 9 months ago). We were coming down from Mount Rushmore and I nailed a motorcyclist head-on. I was in my lane, eyes on the road, both hands on the wheel, and only going about 35 mph around a curve. He came the other way and he wasn't speeding but it was like he didn't even see the curve. He came over the stripe and drove straight into the grill of my pickup truck. I still can't believe it happened. The motorcyclist didn't make it. I was able to hold his hand and pray for him and speak to him a little. He came to for a while and was conscious when the EMT's arrived but then he died in the ambulance before they could drive away. It was a sad day and I feel so sorry for his family. They were all there with him when it happened. They agreed it was not my fault. One of his family members was riding a few yards behind him and saw the whole thing. Crazy day... not even sure what to think of all this right now.


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## ksalvagno

OMG. I'm so sorry. How horrible. Praying for you and his family.


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## jschies

Wow.. I am so sorry.


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## Goatzrule

Wow I am so sorry that happened. Praying for you


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Wow, I am sorry... The same thing happened to my cousin, but with a semi-truck. Motorcycles are dangerous.


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## toth boer goats

I am so sorry.


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## Goats Rock

Whew! That would be a tough one. I'm sorry for all of you.


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## Damfino

Yeah, pretty rough deal. I can't feel sorry for myself because I feel sorry for the motorcyclist's family and what they're going through. My husband and I are unscathed. My truck isn't in great shape and we're working through the logistics of getting back to Colorado. I have a feeling we'll be renting a car to get home for now, but I'll know more when I talk to the guy at the body shop tomorrow. At least I'm only having to deal with how to get a dead truck home and not a dead body. 

On the plus side, other than the very low point yesterday, the rest of our trip has been wonderful. It's been great to hang out with my in-laws, and South Dakota is beautiful. I've never been here before and I definitely want to come back--next time with my packgoats.


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## Goats Rock

I don't mean to sound cold and callous, but, his insurance should cover your truck and the rental car. And, I don't mean to sound so cold and practical, but, I'm sure you are like the rest of everyone and don't have piles of money sitting all over. I would guess the police report has all the insurance info. 

That sure was a terrible day for everyone ! (Especially the guys family).


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## Damfino

It's not cold or callous to be practical. Yes, his insurance should cover everything. I spent all yesterday morning on the phone, at the body shop, at the car rental company, etc. I had to call my insurance company to get the ball rolling on a claim number so I could rent a car at the reduced rate and have something started in case the motorcyclist wasn't insured or was under-insured. Meanwhile it took some time to get ahold of the right officer at the right police department since three different agencies took statements and I had no idea which one had the official and complete report. I finally got the insurance info on the motorcyclist sometime yesterday afternoon and I'll be doing more logistical stuff later this morning after my in-laws fly out. My husband and I will be at least one extra day in S.D. to tie up loose ends, but that's ok. Like I said, at least we're not having to deal with the death of a family member or even injury to ourselves. Staying an extra day or two on vacation is not a hardship.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im worried about you emotionally. Your speaking very factually without emotion. I would suggest some counciling. Im sure you are in shock and disconnected from reality..but it will come back. Please take care of your emotions. I cant imagine that horrific situation. Take care.


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## jschies

People handle things different ways. Some people don't let their emotions show, but are fine. Damfino seems like a pretty tough person. She should be from Texas! I hope that all involved are eventually able to be at peace with what happened. I can't even imagine dealing with this.


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## Goatzrule

jschies said:


> People handle things different ways. Some people don't let their emotions show, but are fine. Damfino seems like a pretty tough person. She should be from Texas! I hope that all involved are eventually able to be at peace with what happened. I can't even imagine dealing with this.


Even the toughest people can really internalize things. They are the ones you have to worry about the most! Moers is very right. Counseling is so important, even if it was just for a little bit. Its human to not be okay after something like this. Its a big deal. I cant imagine what you are going through, I know it may take a little while. Its okay to not be okay.


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## ksalvagno

Keep in mind this is still on the internet and anyone can see it. I know I'm more private and would just be matter of fact online. Some people don't want to talk about everything on the internet but handling it in person.Damfino is a strong and common sense person who comes across to me as someone who would take care of herself. She probably just isn't interested in airing everything online.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Im worried about you emotionally. Your speaking very factually without emotion. I would suggest some counciling. Im sure you are in shock and disconnected from reality..but it will come back. Please take care of your emotions. I cant imagine that horrific situation. Take care.


Well, to be quite honest I'm not terribly emotional about this. It's sad that a man died but I don't feel responsible. He drove straight into me. If I hadn't been there I think he might still have died from driving right off the road. Had I been even the slightest bit at fault it would be different, but my conscience is clear that I was doing everything right when it happened and I had neither the time nor ability to take evasive action in that spot. There was no shoulder--just a steep bank on the outside of the curve so I couldn't swerve to avoid him even if I'd had time. I feel sad for his family but I'm not traumatized like I would be if I'd been distracted or speeding or drifting into his lane. His family even wonders if he suffered some kind of stroke or seizure just before the accident. I'm grateful that the man lived long enough that I was able to hold his hand, pray, speak his name, and hopefully say a few words of comfort. That was a blessing to me and for whatever reason the experience put me at peace with the situation. I hope my presence there was in some way a blessing to the man who died and to his family as well.



jschies said:


> People handle things different ways. Some people don't let their emotions show, but are fine. Damfino seems like a pretty tough person. She should be from Texas! I hope that all involved are eventually able to be at peace with what happened. I can't even imagine dealing with this.


Funny enough, I was born in Texas, but since my family moved to Colorado when I was five I consider myself a Coloradan with Texan roots. 

I also hope the motorcyclist's family is at peace with what happened. They seem like nice folks and I would like to meet them again one day under better circumstances. I hope they feel the same way about me.



ksalvagno said:


> Keep in mind this is still on the internet and anyone can see it. I know I'm more private and would just be matter of fact online. Some people don't want to talk about everything on the internet but handling it in person. Damfino is a strong and common sense person who comes across to me as someone who would take care of herself. She probably just isn't interested in airing everything online.


^ Truth!!


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes..I wasnt attemping to be negative or say you did anything wrong. I work around people who go through different and the same situation that have it under control...until one day it surfaces. Doesnt matter how tough you are (ex. Military, police, firefighters, drs. Etc) deal with death or actions of death do feel trauma. Just suggesting be aware of things...in case it comes up. Not everyone.is against you nor doubts you. Just an offering of insight from experince. Hope all is well with you. Ill pray for you.


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## Damfino

One of the police officers at the scene said something similar and it might definitely happen to me too so I'm prepared for the possibility, but in the meantime since I don't feel traumatized I'm not going to try to work up a bunch of emotion that isn't there. On the Spock-Kirk emotional spectrum I'm definitely well over on the Spock end. Not everyone understands this in a culture where extreme emotional responses to almost everything are expected and even encouraged, but being even-keeled in a crisis runs in my family. It doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic toward the man who died or those who loved him. It was a very sad and unexpected loss for them and they are the ones experiencing emotional trauma right now. I haven't spoken to a counselor, but I called my mom after the accident and it was good. I'd love it if I could still talk to my dad because he and I are very similar, but his cancer is so far progressed that he's not the same person he used to be and he hasn't got the energy to talk much anymore. Plus, he just had some kind of dental surgery last week and is still recovering from that.


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## Damfino

Back on the main subject of this thread, I'm home in Colorado now and bracing for the zombie apocalypse. Our governor for some reason instituted a state-wide mask order the day we left for South Dakota and now I have to face the faceless crowds with a soggy germ-bag firmly installed against my airways in all public indoor places. Last time I spent time indoors with a mask, my face and neck broke out horribly with giant pimples that quickly became infected. I'm 41. I should not still be battling acne! I'm one of those idiots who can't help but touch my face when I have a mask on (the sweat, the dripping snot, the tickling sensation!). Since I also rarely wash my hands or use sanitizer, I suppose acne can only be expected. My biggest problem is that my nose runs constantly from the warm, moist air and then I feel compelled to wipe it with my hand or even blow my nose on my shirt sleeves. So then I'm walking around with snot on my mask, hands, and sleeves all day. Does anyone have a suggestion for masks that DON'T create warm, moist air underneath?

I'm not sure I understand the mask rule being put in place NOW since Colorado's death count has only gone down since May. We've had rising cases among young people for the last few weeks, but I see that as a GOOD thing. Hospitalizations are still down. There's no shortage of supplies. So why are we still trying to stem the spread? It's not like the virus is ever going away. I'm not sure yet how my town has reacted to the mask order and I anticipate there may be some friction. I popped into Family Dollar last night on my way home for a gallon of milk. I had my mask on, but the cashier's mask was dangling around her neck and the man behind me in line had no mask and kept railing about government control and takeover. If this was just the first five minutes of being home, I'm pretty sure the next few weeks may be very interesting. 

At times like these I'm very glad I'm not on Facebook. I can only imagine the vitriol there. We have some very strong anti-maskers in our community and they were already getting close to boiling over on the virus issue before this new mask order even came into place. I just hope nothing devolves into fights, murder, suicide, and drug overdoses. The grocery store cashiers were already openly carrying firearms before the new order because of too many hostile confrontations. I feel like getting sick is the least of our worries. Turning on one another and on the authorities in rage and frustration seems the bigger danger. I smell anarchy in the air.


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## Sfgwife

Have you tried wearing a thin gator or bandana tied like on an old western? Those are easier to breathe in when it is so humid and hot out for us.


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## Damfino

Yeah, my face covering is a bandana folded over with elastics tied on each end that I can loop over my ears instead of tying it behind my head. Tying it behind my head makes it slide down and also is harder to use since I wear hats all the time. It's the constant nose running and the acne that get to me though. I started carrying pocket handkerchiefs when we lived in western NY because the air there is hot and humid and the humidity makes my nose drip. I've carried them ever since but rarely use them here in our dry Colorado climate. Now my hanky will be getting a lot of use! I'm sure it looks pretty bad with me constantly sneezing, blowing my nose, and wiping it, but I'm not sure what else to do. When I wear masks at home while I'm burning brush or cleaning dusty goat pens it's not a big deal because no one has to see me wiping my nose all the time, and I can farmer blow the big chunks into the dirt. It's a little different if I'm in Walmart, and I feel kind of disgusting. Not sure what to do about it and if the whole point is to protect others I know this definitely isn't a step in the right direction. 

I did some Googling today to see if others have this drippy nose problem and yes, it's a thing. I found some suggestions on an old blog for doctors and nurses, but none of them were very good. Most just say you have to live with it and try not to drip on the patients (oh dear!) and change your mask frequently. On the plus side, if I look sick in public, perhaps nervous people will keep a good social distance.


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## Moers kiko boars

Sometimes we use a touch of vicks under our nose under the mask. Some of us use that vicks nasal stick..before we mask up. Hope this might help.


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## Damfino

Thanks. I'll give that a try. It just better not cause any more pimples!! 

Thankfully I rarely frequent indoor public places. The problems arose when I went for my six-week shopping trip in Pueblo and had to have the mask on for several hours. 

It would be fun to buy a bunch of silly masks to match my personality. I love cosplay and I've seen some great beard masks, buck teeth masks, big red lips, etc. Maybe if I stick a maxi pad to the inside it will catch the nasal drippage.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Damfino said:


> Thanks. I'll give that a try. It just better not cause any more pimples!!
> 
> Thankfully I rarely frequent indoor public places. The problems arose when I went for my six-week shopping trip in Pueblo and had to have the mask on for several hours.
> 
> It would be fun to buy a bunch of silly masks to match my personality. I love cosplay and I've seen some great beard masks, buck teeth masks, big red lips, etc. Maybe if I stick a maxi pad to the inside it will catch the nasal drippage.


Ha ha, the other day, I saw someone with a bandana face covering - along with an entire pirate costume, which really made the bandana blend in!! Why not, right?


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## Damfino

I do have lots of pirate and cowboy costume stuff. My husband started dressing in full cowboy regalia when the mask order was in place earlier this spring for church gatherings. He plays the fiddle at church and he looked great up there with his bandit look. He even wore his six shooter! I'm sure he'll be breaking that out again this Sunday.


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## Moers kiko boars

Your going to start a new fashion! Sounds great!:cleverdance)


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## Goats Rock

Every time I wear a stupid mask, I cough! Then you feel like a criminal, coughing in public!


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## MidnightRavenFarm

Our county has 73 cases so far. Neighboring counties are much bigger so they have ten times the number of cases


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## Steampunked

I'm somewhere that has a limited number of cases due to early shut down, but just wanted to give my sympathies to Damfino - I'm 45, and still have acne. Seems unfair!

I have some nice masks, a black velvet one and a fun red tartan one.

Our rules here are fairly specific. You are allowed to leave your house for four reasons:


to shop for food and essential goods or services
to provide care, for compassionate reasons or to seek medical treatment
to exercise or for outdoor recreation
for work or study, if you can't do it from home

Non-shared households stay 1.5 meters apart, 'or the length of a kangaroo'. Masks must be worn by everyone, with two exceptions - a medical exemption, or high intensity exercise. But most joggers I now see wear their masks even so - a few of the runners I know are using it as a chance to train hard and then be able to run more efficiently when they can run maskless.

Masks unfortunately make me sneeze and cough a bit - I've worked out it's the moisture, so it will probably not be so bad in our very dry summer.


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## Damfino

The acne wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the pimples are getting seriously inflamed and infected under the mask. I've got another huge one on my chin from just a short stint in the grocery store the other day.

Sounds like y'all have it rough in Australia. I have to wonder what on earth is the point of requiring masks in open air activities or in forcing everyone to stay home. This is so unhealthy for people's bodies, mental wellbeing, and immune systems. I can understand the reasoning behind mask wearing in crowded indoor spaces, but not at all outside unless you're jammed up against other people. Keeping folks trapped indoors at home is very unhealthy and I think it's very likely to backfire. I believe that is one of the reasons NY had such a terrible outcome. The virus hit them at a cold time of year when everyone was trapped indoors by the weather and it spread among workers and family members like wildfire. The majority of cases are contracted at home from a family member, so having everyone stay home isn't going to protect them unless they can eliminate all essential workers or prevent workers from ever going home. Home, hospital, workplace, and church are probably the most likely places a person will get infected. Almost no one gets infected by brief casual contact with strangers except perhaps in a small enclosed space like an elevator, subway or other mass transportation. I can see how conventions and concerts where you're crammed up against lots of other people for extended periods of time could also be a problem. But visiting the park? Hiking on a trail? Walking down the street or riding in your car? No. I don't think they've traced even one infection to that type of activity. 

News keeps predicting "another NY" with cases surging in Texas, Florida, and California (although they don't mention California much), but the high death counts just aren't happening, and I don't believe they will. The rhetoric that NY did anything worthwhile to "stem the tide" is ridiculous. The virus ran its course and that's all. It wouldn't have mattered if they opened completely or locked down forever--the cases and deaths in New England were going to plummet no matter what. They're saying that as many as 60-70% of people in some of the NYC burrows are testing positive for antibodies. If that's true, then they won't have a second wave and there's nothing amazing anyone did to stop the spread because clearly it spread about as far as it could if that many people have antibodies! All the other states currently having surges never had a "wave" in the first place and it's hitting them now. It was bound to eventually. 

I don't believe anyone is going to escape this thing. Everyone will be exposed sooner or later no matter what they do. There may be a vaccine eventually, but it is going to take several years before it can really be declared safe and effective. In the meantime, hiding is not exactly a viable option. I'm ok with slowing the spread. I'm not ok with trying to pretend we could ever have stopped it.


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## luvmyherd

Well, that's what I get for being on the road for 4 days.
I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal damfino. On our first trip to Michigan; a biker went zooming by us darting in and out. I think I said something like, "We'll probably see him splattered on the road up ahead." And we did. Even though we were not involved it touched me deeply. I was heartbroken for the truckdriver who was terribly shaken though it was clearly not his fault. I was equally concerned for his friends who came back for him and saw him there. I still get a chill when we pass through that bridge.
I am very happy that you have a clear conscience and were able to offer comfort.


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## luvmyherd

We started our *social distancing* trip with our daughter's family at Clearlake. My grandson stole the show when he landed a 30 inch 10 pound catfish. His first unassisted catch. Then we headed on south and turned left at Bakersfield. We have taken the 40 through 4 states and will be in Mena Arkansas tomorrow. It has been interesting working hard to distance and not using public restrooms and such. We usually go out of our way to meet people. Right now we are hunkered down in a KOA while a thunder storm rages around us. (Last night on the West Texas panhandle; we thought we might wake up in OZ!!) At least it is cooling down.
Most people in most states have been wearing masks. Most businesses require them inside.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> Well, that's what I get for being on the road for 4 days.
> I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal damfino. On our first trip to Michigan; a biker went zooming by us darting in and out. I think I said something like, "We'll probably see him splattered on the road up ahead." And we did. Even though we were not involved it touched me deeply. I was heartbroken for the truckdriver who was terribly shaken though it was clearly not his fault. I was equally concerned for his friends who came back for him and saw him there. I still get a chill when we pass through that bridge.
> I am very happy that you have a clear conscience and were able to offer comfort.


Thanks. I sent a note to the family on Monday and I hope it reaches them in time for the funeral tomorrow. I just hope that no one harbors any bitterness in their hearts. Although it wasn't my fault, I'm sure there are always questions about whether I was speeding or drifting out of my lane, or if I could have swerved in time to avoid the collision. I'm sure I could not have done anything to avoid it in such short notice. If I'd panicked and swerved we absolutely would have rolled our truck and possibly been killed or seriously injured ourselves and would still not have avoided the motorcycle. I'm thankful it wasn't worse. The man didn't have a passenger with him. The wreck didn't create a chain reaction with other bikes or vehicles. His family was there and so was mine. There are still many blessings in the midst of tragedy and that is what I focus on. I hope the man's family can focus on their blessings as well and that his funeral will be a good occasion with many happy memories shared. He died doing what he loved and that is a kind of blessing in itself. As your story also illustrates, motorcycles are definitely for folks who live on the edge.


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## jschies

Back to the coronavirus. I am really upset that our kids can play football and volleyball, but we are having school online for the first 3 weeks! I want to say something to the superintendent but I am scared that I would not be diplomatic. Then they keep saying on TV that teachers don't want to go back to school. YES WE DO!!!


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## Steampunked

Damfino said:


> Sounds like y'all have it rough in Australia. I have to wonder what on earth is the point of requiring masks in open air activities or in forcing everyone to stay home. This is so unhealthy for people's bodies, mental wellbeing, and immune systems.


We don't mind that much. Research here shows that constant mask wearing and distancing drops the infection rates - we did have a brief period a time back where they loosened restrictions for a while. Two weeks later we had a giant spike in cases in my state (627 new cases!), so they have been tightened again and are going to remain that way until it's gone.

We're very close to Asia, remember, and in many parts of Asia - especially Japan - everyone wears a mask the moment they have a sniffle to stop others from catching it. So we're more used to seeing it as many of our Asian-Australians do the same thing to this day. Earlier this year we all had to wear masks because of the bushfire smoke...and we said we'd not use them again. Well, I guess we found a use.

I can say I can't really jog with a mask on, but I can't really jog without industrial strength support anyway. I do find that a peaked mask allows me to breathe more easily even if I'm exercising hard.

One thing that does crack me up is - I live in a city which is famed for it's hipster culture and coffee culture. Everyone kvetched about masks for a couple of days, and now everyone is wearing their ethically-produced, single origin masks that match all their clothes (okay, it's not that hard - everyone in Melbourne wears black ALL winter). It's kind of hilarious - we now have people stopping each other to check where they got their cool mask from.


----------



## goathiker

How many people here use the 40 year old AVID testing for their animals? Do you know that a virus stays with you forever? Once you are exposed to chicken pox or get the vaccine for it, there's a good chance that you will get shingles later. 
You can't just look at cases, the whole idea was to get "herd immunity" which is just dumb since everyone has had CV many times in their life and AVID can't tell the difference. 

I shouldn't have come here to settle, so sorry. We have reached 4000 children saved from predators yesterday. Some of the predators put away include teachers, policemen, and others that should never have been around kids. You wouldn't believe how it was right there on the net the whole time. 

Damfino, be brave and safe. I had a wreck much like that and I have never snapped over it. God has only your good in mind. 

To the rest of you RESEARCH!


----------



## Goats Rock

I had chicken pox as a kid and shingles in Nov. not fun. Then the plague in Dec. (Covid 19, before they told us about it). Now they (who are they?) claim you can get it again. I give up. I'll just live my life in my barn like I have for years and avoid bars like I have for many years. (Who has time for a hangover? ) :imok:
My wish: that the Gov't. Would be honest mg: ( honest government??? What an oxymoron) and our dictator of a governor would quit the histrionics!


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## Tanya

I have a saying. "I am tired of adulting. I just want to goat. For a short while. Just long enough to avoid the human issues in the world". 
Especially if life gets tough. I go to Destiny and Gizmos pen and spend a good 8 hours just being with them. Its so much easier.


----------



## ksalvagno

goathiker said:


> How many people here use the 40 year old AVID testing for their animals? Do you know that a virus stays with you forever? Once you are exposed to chicken pox or get the vaccine for it, there's a good chance that you will get shingles later.
> You can't just look at cases, the whole idea was to get "herd immunity" which is just dumb since everyone has had CV many times in their life and AVID can't tell the difference.
> 
> I shouldn't have come here to settle, so sorry. We have reached 4000 children saved from predators yesterday. Some of the predators put away include teachers, policemen, and others that should never have been around kids. You wouldn't believe how it was right there on the net the whole time.
> 
> Damfino, be brave and safe. I had a wreck much like that and I have never snapped over it. God has only your good in mind.
> 
> To the rest of you RESEARCH!


Great news on the predators. About time.

I would love to hear your take on the whole corona virus thing. I have been researching but it is getting harder and harder to find truth and not government "truth."


----------



## Steampunked

Coronavirus is just, well. A Coronavirus. This one is highly infectious with multiple severe side effects, many of which cause permanent damage. But there are many types of Coronavirus, and many of them are more or less harmless or just cause minor miseries. We were lucky for a long time, now we've got something that's good at replicating and has severe effects. It was bound to happen - the pandemic officer at my previous job was just waiting for one to occur because he was of the opinion it was likely soon.

I worked for the government for 10 years here, and now I work with medical vigilance, pharma and medicines - including large scale pharma companies. People are just people, even in large organisations. You can't get these guys to agree on a naming scheme for a description of an object, they're definitely not going to all agree on a conspiracy. The 'worst' would be the pharma companies, but not because there's a global conspiracy. Just because they want cash and they're greedy (IME). They'd quite happily destroy the pharma company next door if they could.

If I was in the US I'd say just look at the CDC guidelines (sorry, don't have a high degree of faith in the current governance, so I'd go direct to the source). The CDC have been world leaders historically in control and identification of infectious disease, to the point they were respected in many other countries. As long as they're still permitted to announce, whatever they say is probably correct.


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## luvmyherd

My goats were always such a source of therapy for me. Nothing sooths my nerves more than a freshly cleaned barn. I could just go out and sit in the fresh straw.

Honesty! What a concept. I would give anything to actually be told the truth without the dramatics.

We have made landfall in Arkansas and are happy just to sit and talk with my sister and her husband. We cannot help but let conversations drift to Covid and/or politics but we limit it. Our evenings are spent with a glass of wine and a few episodes of The Big Bang Theory.


----------



## Goats Rock

Big Bang was a fun show. Sounds like you are having enjoyable evenings!


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## MidnightRavenFarm

luvmyherd said:


> My goats were always such a source of therapy for me. Nothing sooths my nerves more than a freshly cleaned barn. I could just go out and sit in the fresh straw.
> 
> Honesty! What a concept. I would give anything to actually be told the truth without the dramatics.
> 
> We have made landfall in Arkansas and are happy just to sit and talk with my sister and her husband. We cannot help but let conversations drift to Covid and/or politics but we limit it. Our evenings are spent with a glass of wine and a few episodes of The Big Bang Theory.


You sharing the wine? This girl needs a glass lol


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## luvmyherd

wish I could


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## Steampunked

Well, I'm glad we went out to get hay as we're now on Stage 4 restrictions.

We can probably get hay/animal food delivered here, and they may add exemptions for people like me who are technically 'urban' but in farming land - our cities are very large and most people would have whatever they needed within 5kms (the new legal travel limit). It's just unusual edge cases like mine that it gets a bit awkward.


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## goathiker

We were lucky to fall into some hay that the goats LOVE and maintain their weight well. 
It is mixed rye grass, oat grass, pea, stinging nettles, a plethora of other weeds, and cottonwood tree fluff lol.
It's not great for allergies but it is beautiful inside the sunburned bales. $2 a bale to get it out of his way. Cut last month but horse people don't want this second cut because the protein is too high.


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## Goats Rock

Nice hay! Lucky you!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Lucky you!! We set up some portable electric fence!the goats haven’t really had a chance to use it yet, because we have to get some shade in there, either the trailer or a tent thing that may or may not work lol!


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## Steampunked

God I'd love that hay. Recently hay here has been absolutely shocking - constant long seeds meaning two vet emergency trips for ulcerated eyes. My daughter couldn't sit on the bale without getting seeds stuck in her. I really, really would love that hay!


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## Steven Beckstead

$2 a bale!?!?! We're do we get these prices???


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## toth boer goats

Wow mg:


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## MidnightRavenFarm

Does anyone have kids that are actually gonna be able to go to school soon?


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## NDinKY

People wearing masks seems to be working, at least in my area. It’s not fun to wear them, but I’m in one 10 hrs a day and haven’t keeled over yet. Worse is having to wear the face shield too. My attending and residents are wearing N95s all day with a surgical mask over top since they’re going in Covid rooms. Two weeks ago we had the highest Covid census in the hospital since this all began. Since then, hospitalized cases have decreased and now were back to mid-late June levels. Fortunately, I’m not in a hard hit area (yet), but where I did my training is getting slammed. Several of my positive patients did die from Covid, but most going to the MICU have multiple comorbidities or are morbidly obese. This virus seems to be attacking all systems. One of my pts had Covid encephalopathy, some are losing renal fxn, throwing clots, viral cardiomyopathies. It’s not just pulmonary involvement. 

The Lancet just published a paper about how healthcare workers have 3-4x the risk of contracting Covid, even when PPE is worn perfectly. Not excited about that finding...


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## jschies

One of our school districts in southeast Texas started school yesterday. Others will start next week. About half of the districts are doing in person--like the one yesterday. The other half are doing at least 3 weeks of online only.


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## Damfino

I don't have kids and if I did I'd have been homeschooling them anyway. School here starts a couple of weeks late which gives us a nice extension on saddle club activities. They may end up doing remote learning for an extra couple of weeks on top of that so we may have even more saddle club time if that happens (yay!). There are so many things in life that are way more important than school anyway and I might be showing my anti-school prejudice, but I think almost any outdoor activity is more educational than sitting in a classroom.

I heard a rumor the other day and I'll have to ask around or buy this week's paper to find out if it actually happened, but apparently there was a big brouhaha at our local grocery store last week. A lady saw a couple of customers in there without masks and decided to take the law into her own hands. She drove her car up to the doorway and parked across it so no one could leave and then she called the police to report the maskless individuals. So basically she put everyone in the store under false arrest and created something of a hostage situation. If it's true it's hilarious but also pretty scary and I hope the cops throw the book at her for being an idiot. 

Last week the sheriff did have to tell some other local to stop reporting mask-wearing rulebreakers. Apparently someone with nothing better to do was going around tattle-taling on places of business that weren't enforcing 100% compliance and was reporting them to the health department, expecting someone to come down here and start passing out fines or jail sentences I suppose. I guess they don't realize the sheriff and the health department have numerous far more important things to do right now than go after people for sneezing in aisle 3 or letting their mask droop below their nose.


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## happybleats

Damfino..have you thought of wearing a shield in place of a mask? I'm not sure if Colorado accepts that over mask..but may help your skin issue. They make them to attach to a cap too.. I grew up with acne break outs..zero fun!!


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> I don't have kids and if I did I'd have been homeschooling them anyway. School here starts a couple of weeks late which gives us a nice extension on saddle club activities. They may end up doing remote learning for an extra couple of weeks on top of that so we may have even more saddle club time if that happens (yay!). There are so many things in life that are way more important than school anyway and I might be showing my anti-school prejudice, but I think almost any outdoor activity is more educational than sitting in a classroom.


Uh, yeah! (Especially that last sentence.)

My daughter home schools but also belongs to a *homeschooling co-op*. They get public funding so are part of the district meaning they have to follow all the same rules as the public schools. She was forbidden from having any contact with her students that did not meet the *guidelines*. They are all close families with such small classes that they could easily social distance.


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## Damfino

happybleats said:


> Damfino..have you thought of wearing a shield in place of a mask? I'm not sure if Colorado accepts that over mask..but may help your skin issue. They make them to attach to a cap too.. I grew up with acne break outs..zero fun!!


Not allowed in Colorado unfortunately. I looked into it.


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## Damfino

Well, I went to the grocery store today and asked one of the cashiers if the wild story about the hostage situation was true. It was. It actually happened two Saturdays ago when we were in South Dakota, so it would have been right after the mask order went into place. Hopefully people will settle down. I was in the P.O. today and 3 of the 4 people who came in didn't have masks at all, and the worker had hers around her neck. This is the most lax I've ever seen people in the P.O. since March, so I almost wonder if the mask order either made people rebellious, or if people are just plain weary of "the new abnormal".


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## Steampunked

Kind of a nice message from an Australian paper I thought you guys might like:


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## luvmyherd

Steampunked said:


> Kind of a nice message from an Australian paper I thought you guys might like:
> 
> View attachment 186199


Sound advice. I am off to eat all the things.


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## toth boer goats

Love those. :up:


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## Goataddict

luvmyherd said:


> Sound advice. I am off to eat all the things.


Agreed


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## MidnightRavenFarm

Our county just released the upcoming school plan to be all virtual. They want each kid to do 6.5 hours every day of online learning. But where I live, WiFi isn’t an option. I have tried for three years to get the local cable company to run internet up here, but where they provide service ends half a mile down the road. They said it would cost me 5 grand to have them run access to my house. I don’t understand how the schools can expect us to to do online schooling when we have no internet access available to us


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## luvmyherd

MidnightRavenFarm said:


> Our county just released the upcoming school plan to be all virtual. They want each kid to do 6.5 hours every day of online learning. But where I live, WiFi isn't an option. I have tried for three years to get the local cable company to run internet up here, but where they provide service ends half a mile down the road. They said it would cost me 5 grand to have them run access to my house. I don't understand how the schools can expect us to to do online schooling when we have no internet access available to us


That is the question on many parent's and teacher's lips. In my daughter's district every child was given a chrome book and supposedly a hotspot if needed. There were never any instructions on how to achieve this access. She is not even sure how many of them are still in the area.
Now she is expected to do 6 hours a day. Out of her 30 students last year the most she ever got on at one time was 15. She was hard put to keep them interested for 2 hours. 
I am not professing to have the answer in any way. This is just what is happening to her. (This is y other daughter, not the one who homeschools.) She teaches 5th grade in public school.


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## jschies

The school should have a hot spot for you. I believe that money was (or will be) given to them to provide internet access and some type of computer to students who need them. Call the school until you get an answer. I hope that we can all get back to normal very soon! I have satellite internet which is not good when it rains, so last year I took one of the hot spots that we had for the kids. It worked most of the time.


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## Steampunked

While I have Internet (I'm working from home now), many people at our local schooling do not, as I'm 'in the city' and 'in the country' simultaneously. This also means I'm on severe lockdown, heh - no travel, no leaving the property save one person once a day, no going 5km from house. Our school has created specialised information packets for those students with poor connections, so they have a big pack and specific items for each day to work through. Not sure if this would help your teacher friend, but they are clearly giving support to the teachers. The school does the printing and has a helpline to resolve issues.

The school library also mails out books for the students.

They have also been very clear that teachers are not expected to maintain previous formats. My daughter tends to complete her days' schooling in about 1 1/2 - 2 hours. Other children will take longer, or less time. I am lucky. My kid is neurotypical and very good at entertaining herself - but it is hard on her. Both of her parents are working, and in my case, I am frequently in multi-hour meetings that cannot be interrupted. I say 'cannot' because my clients and superiors are getting used to seeing her head pop up 

For us, the hardest thing is PE. It's winter here, and very wet. I live on a steep slope, and everything is a foot deep in mud. It's cold, there's a tonne of leeches, and exercise outside is not remotely appealing. My family is great on academica, but we don't even HAVE a football 'to kick around' or, indeed, somewhere to do it. Once it warms up, it will be easier.


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## MidnightRavenFarm

They have 800 chrome books for the entire county for kids who don’t have one. Even if I was able to use one of them, they don’t provide hotspot unless you sit in the school parking lot. There is no way I would drive 15 miles everyday to sit in the car while my son and daughter each did 6.5 hours of online school.


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## jschies

I'm so sorry to hear that.... That is absolutely ridiculous.


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## Moers kiko boars

At one time..you could link your cell phone to a tablet and use your phones network. Would that help.any? I used to do that for my online classes.


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## Goats Rock

I have dial up- glad my kids are all grown up. Half the time our internet is down! 
Make little cubicles for each kid, then they could go to school! Little plexiglass cubes!


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## MidnightRavenFarm

Moers kiko boars said:


> At one time..you could link your cell phone to a tablet and use your phones network. Would that help.any? I used to do that for my online classes.


If they let me borrow a laptop then I'm gonna connect to my phones hotspot. But straight talk only gives u 10 gb a month. I'm not sure how long that will last


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## Moers kiko boars

Maybe that will change due to the changes of the covid19. I hope so.


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## luvmyherd

I talked to my daughter last night. She is being allowed to remote teach from her classroom. She is happy about that as she has all of her materials and class is not interrupted by dogs barking and kids/husband coming and going.

We did a *social distancing* Southern Hospitality picnic yesterday. It worked pretty well but just not as fun as being able to hug and laugh out loud and stuff. Still, it was just good to socialize a bit. And I did *eat all the things* and felt like I might burst.









Cases in our county are so bad that we may not go home. My son-in-law has multiple medical problems and has lots of appointments. They are now requiring a Covid test before all scheduled procedures. At least they have been negative; so that is one up-side.


----------



## luvmyherd

Oh! We got a goat fix last night. The little girl my sister takes care of wanted us to meet Oreo. Her precious little pet Pygmy. His hooves were badly overgrown so Rod trimmed them for her and educated the mom on how to keep them up.:cowboy:


----------



## Moers kiko boars




----------



## Moers kiko boars




----------



## luvmyherd

Moers kiko boars said:


> View attachment 186393











That is so true. Happened to me!


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> View attachment 186395


HAHAHAHA!!! Very funny sign.

Too bad I'm guilty on every single front (even guilty of #2 once or twice).

As for #3: Not possible. Nothing can be both "tight" and "comfortable" at the same time (one reason I eschew bras). It's like saying your tinder needs to be both dry and damp. One of my husband's favorite sayings is, "Nothing's right when your underwear's tight!"


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## toth boer goats

:haha:


----------



## Tanya

MidnightRavenFarm said:


> Does anyone have kids that are actually gonna be able to go to school soon?


My daughter returns on Tuesday


----------



## Tanya

Ok. So I got through this danged virus. But it just does not let go. I started with the symptoms again today. Headache, fever, coughing. Had to be tested again. Then my doctor raised an interesting point. Once you had the viris it just dont leave the body and you are likely to test positive the srcond, third, fourth time. So I got broad spec antibiotics, flu meds and fever meds. Ugh and self isolation again. This is frikin crazy


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Why antibiotics for a virus??


----------



## Tanya

Its all our doctors are goving if one symptom is an inflamed throat and sore ears. Its really precautions because nothings gets rid of this thing yet. I am beyond annoyed and really so over this


----------



## Tanya

As my doc explained. With this second set of symptoms my imune system is down from my last experience. So bad bacteria caused an infection so the new symptoms include a throat infection and a high allergy level.


----------



## Damfino

Sorry you're still sick?  Are you sure it's the same bug? Did you test positive again? Or is this a case of having residual effects from the first bout? 

I read the other day that the U.S. has had 5 million people test positive (that's about one in 70 people) but it is generally accepted that at least 10 times that many people have had it but weren't tested (this has generally been borne out by antibody tests). This means about 1 in 7 Americans has already had the virus. The fact that so many people have few or no symptoms is being pegged to T cells, which may recognize this coronavirus because of past experience with other related coronaviruses. 

The fact that our case count is way up but our death rate is way down is very good news. There has been a lot of fear mongering about the "new wave" of cases being a harbinger of doom, and while some areas did see a small spike in deaths, it has been nowhere close to what was happening back in March and April. We can't begin to know how many cases occurred early in the year because tests were scarce and reserved for those with severe symptoms. 

I have high hopes that like other common cold viruses, once people have had this one, even if their immunity eventually wears off, their T cells will remember it and be much better at fighting it off in subsequent encounters and symptoms will be fewer, shorter-lived, and far less serious.


----------



## Tanya

These are risidual effects. South Africa is reaching its peak . They did a test today. My doc expects a pos result. He thinks its because i have a compromisd immune system. I dont think this will be as bad as my forst experience. I am just so annoyed


----------



## luvmyherd

I do hope that you do not get as sick as before. We will be thinking positive thoughts for you.


----------



## toth boer goats

:hug:


----------



## MidnightRavenFarm

My daughter has been showing symptoms so she got tested today. It will be two days before we get the results. She looks so miserable. I wish I could take her place


----------



## Goataddict

So sorry.(console)

Sending prayers (pray)

Hope she gets better.


----------



## Tanya

Midnight. Healing prayers


----------



## MidnightRavenFarm

Her temp is 102.4. She wants to go spend time with the new baby goats but she doesn’t have the energy. I feel so bad for her


----------



## Tanya

Oh midnight. Lots of fluids. Lukecwarm tea. Not hot and not cold. Throat lozinges. And I found to break the fever a cool bath and asperines. 
Sending healing hugs.


----------



## MidnightRavenFarm

Tanya said:


> Oh midnight. Lots of fluids. Lukecwarm tea. Not hot and not cold. Throat lozinges. And I found to break the fever a cool bath and asperines.
> Sending healing hugs.


Thank you so much


----------



## Steampunked

My city went into extremely tight lockdown (one of the strictest in the world outside of Wuhan - we're not nailing people into houses though!) about a week and a half ago and now our community transmission cases are showing the very first signs of starting to drop. We have 9,293 cases in our country, and many were due to a bad outbreak in my city. We are trying to crush it to avoid it getting into areas such as Indigenous communities or other places without access to effective hospital treatment.

Hoping this is a sign of more good to come.

Not sure if anyone cares, but if you're curious this is our lockdown right now:

* Remain within 2.5 kms of your house (A total of 5kms diameter)
* You can leave your house for 1 hr for exercise as long as it's within your house zone.
* You must be masked unless there is a medical exemption or you're under 10 years old.
* There is of course no school, everyone who can work from home is (we're a giant nation of mostly white collar, so it's not so bad). People who can't work from home are wearing masks and being provided, mostly, with sanitiser etc.
* Anyone who has COVID must stay in their house - or hospital room.
* Free testing/treatment for COVID with a very fast turnaround. Not that weird since there's free testing/treatment for a lot of stuff here. COVID is just one more.
* Curfew of 8:00pm to 5:00am, almost no exceptions.

Any delivery group is counting their lucky stars and rolling in cash right now! A sudden thriving industry has sprung up around mailing out restaurant meals. Lots of people are giving food for free - a local bakery is providing bread for the hungry.

My work has said they expect a total of 50% of usual productivity as staff will be stressed. They have noted that parents like me are not expected to act 'normally' as we are teaching and people are to give parents or carers some slack if people are forgetful or stressed.


----------



## Tanya

Steampunked said:


> My city went into extremely tight lockdown (one of the strictest in the world outside of Wuhan - we're not nailing people into houses though!) about a week and a half ago and now our community transmission cases are showing the very first signs of starting to drop. We have 9,293 cases in our country, and many were due to a bad outbreak in my city. We are trying to crush it to avoid it getting into areas such as Indigenous communities or other places without access to effective hospital treatment.
> 
> Hoping this is a sign of more good to come.
> 
> Not sure if anyone cares, but if you're curious this is our lockdown right now:
> 
> * Remain within 2.5 kms of your house (A total of 5kms diameter)
> * You can leave your house for 1 hr for exercise as long as it's within your house zone.
> * You must be masked unless there is a medical exemption or you're under 10 years old.
> * There is of course no school, everyone who can work from home is (we're a giant nation of mostly white collar, so it's not so bad). People who can't work from home are wearing masks and being provided, mostly, with sanitiser etc.
> * Anyone who has COVID must stay in their house - or hospital room.
> * Free testing/treatment for COVID with a very fast turnaround. Not that weird since there's free testing/treatment for a lot of stuff here. COVID is just one more.
> * Curfew of 8:00pm to 5:00am, almost no exceptions.
> 
> Any delivery group is counting their lucky stars and rolling in cash right now! A sudden thriving industry has sprung up around mailing out restaurant meals. Lots of people are giving food for free - a local bakery is providing bread for the hungry.
> 
> My work has said they expect a total of 50% of usual productivity as staff will be stressed. They have noted that parents like me are not expected to act 'normally' as we are teaching and people are to give parents or carers some slack if people are forgetful or stressed.


Wow. We have been in that lockdown since March. Similar rules. Excersize is permitted a bit more but within the radius. You should see a drop. But once the lockdown loosens you might see it rise again. I dont think this virus will go away completely. Good luck.


----------



## Steampunked

Tanya said:


> Wow. We have been in that lockdown since March. Similar rules. Excersize is permitted a bit more but within the radius. You should see a drop. But once the lockdown loosens you might see it rise again. I dont think this virus will go away completely. Good luck.


Thanks! I'm definitely hoping so. Our area went into fast lockdown early which controlled, but then they opened schools up, and well. A tonne of people died. So now we're returning to sanity and hoping we all get through.

It's been really nice to see a community spirit blossom - lots of free giveaways. A refugee who couldn't access citizen payments is being supported locally. I'm really blessed in my community.


----------



## luvmyherd

We got to have our first visit with my mother-in-law today. She has dementia and is in a home. They had a nice table and chairs set up outside. It really drove home about what dementia is like. She had no idea she had not seen us for six months and just went right into her routine of asking why she is there, how long she has to stay and where her dog is.
She actually tested positive and was quarantined for weeks but never developed any symptoms.
I miss being in Arkansas where we could eat safely in (certain) restaurants and have small meetings. Things are not improving much here and cases continue to rise.


----------



## Tanya

I am so sorry that everything there is so uncertain. I am glad your mother in law is in good health even though her dementia has not gotten worse. 
Here we in level 1. And our cases are diminishing. Remember you are in a different season to us. Be careful with yourselves.
Sending blessings


----------



## senoradirt

California is a place where mask compliance is very high, yet cases continue to rise. Not that cases matter much- because this "dangerous" virus has a survival rate of way up in the 90's% for most everyone. If this was a goat disease and survival rates were that high we wouldn't even bother to vaccine. As it is, we've been led to believe getting Covid is next to getting pancreatic cancer. It's not. And the mask, which doesn't work, is a talisman of our fear. I'm sick of it. Mandating mask wearing is a very dangerous precendent-shutting us down... dangerous...all of this is bad.

That is all.


----------



## toth boer goats

I do agree.

It has been known, many people who have died, didn't die of corona, they died from something totally different. This is to get the numbers a lot higher for corona cases, than it actually is and to scare people. 

Masks are known to be bad, as we adjust them a lot and most masks do not even block out anything.
Some have passed out from not getting enough oxygen, wearing them.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

toth boer goats said:


> I do agree.
> 
> It has been known, many people who have died, didn't die of corona, they died from something totally different. This is to get the numbers a lot higher for corona cases, than it actually is and to scare people.
> 
> Masks are known to be bad, as we adjust them a lot and most masks do not even block out anything.
> Some have passed out from not getting enough oxygen, wearing them.


I may be old school in my beliefs, but humans have survived some nasty things for quite a while and we've never experienced this level of medical dictation. Our bodies are made to fight illness. I don't mind when modern medicine works WITH our bodies to give us a little more power, but the mask thing goes against how humans were made to function. We breathe out toxins so we do not breathe them back in. A mask recycles them, and they go back into our lungs.

Does anyone here get canker sores/mouth ulcers? When trying to wear a mask, they got out of hand. This just went as an example that our body is not meant to re-breathe our air so directly.

But you know what, the masks aren't even my main beef. My problem is the bacteria.

I don't like hand sanitizer. I've never used it. After research on how it creates superbugs and lowers our immunity, I wasn't a fan. The chemicals in these sanitizers make bacteria stronger - forget about viruses. My problem is bacteria. Of course an essential oil + mild alcohol sanitizer that's all-natural has always been my go-to, as these do not have the hidden chemicals that most products do.

I truly believe that the over-sanitization of things for viruses has lead to stronger bacteria. From shopping carts to hospitals, everything gets wiped down with a sanitizer.

Since this started, I've never seen bacteria be stronger.

A family friend who underwent a surgery ended up in the ICU for a bacterial secondary infection.

My dog had a procedure done at a vet office where everything is over-sanitized as well, and he ended up with one of the strongest staph infections I've ever seen.

Now, medical facilities have always been very sanitized, which is partially why secondary infections happen from hospitalization. However, it's been heavily ramped up, and people are suffering from it.

Nobody is thinking about the bacteria through all of this. That's what I'm worried about.

Get outside, breathe in fresh air, smell the roses, eat fresh organic foods. Smile.


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## MellonFriend

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Get outside, breathe in fresh air, smell the roses, eat fresh organic foods. Smile.


And pet your goats! They would enjoy a snack of those roses too while your at it.:lolgoat:


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## luvmyherd

It sounds to me like we are all suffering Covid fatigue. I know I am.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes..everyone has opinions..some are of sound medical research..some are of rebellion....some are of wanting to sound more authoritative & smart...but the mask is a requirement right now. Instead of it being all about me...maybe it can be.. so this is to help others. Not everyone is healthy. Not everyone has not had the covid..and in fear of a repeat. Others are just senseless boredom if you feel masks don't work. Then please go volunteer at a hospital and help those that are in need. I'm sure the medical, hospital staff would appreciate your support.


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## Sfgwife

I am over it now. Esp with the “protests” that are happening for other reasons. People can go “protest” all day long and be all against each other with and without masks and not a word is said about covid. But you want to have a funeral or wedding or heck a kids birthday party... nope cannot do. Or even the kids cannot go to school but they can still play sports. It just makes no sense. 

In NC bars cannot be open. But other small businesses can and do not even get me started on big box stores. But back to the bars.... some have even put in kitchens when everything but walmart, lowes, hd... etc were shut down and are still told no they cannot open under the restaurant rules. But. You can go sit in any other restaurant that serves booze and drink all day long... up until the alcohol curfew that has been put in place. So learn me how this kind of nonsense even works? :/. 

It is the two sided rules that is pissin me off.


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## Damfino

I'm barely affected by anything Covid-related and nevertheless I'm completely over it. I HATE the stupid mask thing. In my opinion it's saving exactly NO ONE and it's making the entire world look like a horribly creepy zombie apocalypse movie. I can see exactly why people are rioting, burning, looting, and generally going nuts right now. The temptation to join the general destruction is quite alluring to those who have nothing to lose and for whom the world is no longer an appealing place to live. I'm ready to stop seeing people until I can actually look at their faces again. I guess this is one reason I rarely go anywhere "public" these days, which is a real shame because normally I love people. But as long as we all have to wear masks, I'm sick of people. No one wants to talk to anyone and we can't hear one another even if we try. No one wants to sit near others or make eye contact any more. It's creepy enough to drive some of us insane. If Covid were an actual deadly disease it would feel worth it, but it doesn't feel worth it for a glorified cold/flu bug that me and everyone I know already had last winter.

What gets me really riled up is the _intentional_ fear-mongering. The town of Salida was going to roll out mass antibody testing last spring, but then the authorities turned around and declined the tests because they were afraid that if a lot of people tested positive for antibodies it would give them a "false sense of security". Instead they wanted people to stay terrified and avoid each other. WHY??? Are they really THAT concerned that people will turn right around and get sick again? If that really and truly is a concern, then they need to STOP holding out FALSE HOPE that anyone will ever develop a working vaccine. This entire charade is JUST PLAIN CRUEL!!!

Half the people I know aren't wearing masks any more despite mandates to do so. They're just sick of the pandemic theater. I'm a "good little sheeple" and I wear my mask (most of the time). It has boogers, dirt, motor oil, and a bloodstain on it. I've never washed it in about 3 months and I don't plan to. If I take it out of my truck for any reason, I always forget to put it back in so it has to stay. If this "pandemic theater" lasts for three years, that mask won't be washed for three years. Oh well. If it grosses everyone out I don't care. I don't care about much anything regarding Covid any more. I'm just over it. Since my grandmother died on January 1st, I've had more people die around me in 2020 than in all the years leading up to this combined. And NOT ONE died of Covid-19 so at this point the entire farce is feeling more and more like "fake news". If I knew even one person who died of this disease I could maybe have slightly more faith in the narrative, but as it is all I know is a string of people who got it and recovered. It's REALLY bad when you almost wish you knew someone who died or was even seriously ill just so you could believe that the insanity we're going through is worth it. /rant

Speaking of death, we buried my dad last Saturday. It's why I haven't been around here much lately. He went downhill fast around his 66th birthday and died a week later. He had a way more deadly disease than coronavirus. It's called cancer. Some suggested last spring that we hunker down and not get together with family until "this all blows over" in the fall. Well, it never blew over and if we'd followed that advice we would never have seen my dad again and we'd have missed some very special times. My dad was surrounded by friends and family and had a lot of good memories from his last days. He had a very nice funeral and we saw lots of old friends from way back.

Phil and I are on our way to Utah for our annual "goat vacation" but we had time to stop in Salida today on our way out of town. We had lunch with my mom and visited my dad's grave. We're sure going to miss him. He was a great guy.

Here is the slideshow I put together for my dad's funeral:


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## jschies

Damfino, I am so sorry about your dad. I'm glad that your family was able to spend time with him. 

Here in Texas, the restaurants can open at 75%, but bars are still closed. So is this science or morality police?


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## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry for your loss, Damfino. I agree with you about the whole corona virus thing.


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## happybleats

Damfino..very sorry yoi lost your dad..having that time with him was pricless. ((Hugs))


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## MellonFriend

I didn't even know him, but I cried watching your slide show. He seemed like he had great fun and love in his lifetime. My deepest condolences to you.


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## Sfgwife

So so sorry about your dad! That IS a crazy hard one to do for sure! I remember you saying to heck with rona and loving him til his time came. Good for you!


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## Tanya

@jschies alcohol creates more casualties and less beds in hospital


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## toth boer goats

I am so very sorry for your loss. 

Very heartbreaking and sad, corona virus stuff has stopped a lot of precious time with him. Glad you did ignore the warnings and have that time.

I agree with everything you said. :hug:


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## Tanya

@Damfino I am so sorry about your dad.


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## IHEARTGOATS

@Damfino I'm sorry about your dad.
I feel much the same way you do about corona.
So, over it.
At first for safety we tried to not get together with our folks. My FIL is 91, MIL 88, Dad 78, Mom 75. Finally, they decided they had had enough. Decided we were all tired of hiding.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino, I'm sorry about your dad

I didn't go back to school, but most of my school went back in August. Technically they should be shut down already. Got their first confirmed case the 3rd day, 3 other people went home the 4th day not feeling well, about 2 weeks later a girl got in a wreck, went to the hospital and tested positive,then her friend tested positive the day after that, and my friend had corona symptoms, but didnt get tested, and went back the day after her last fever, even though school rules are you have to wait 24 hours after your last fever. That stuff bothers me SO much. FREE TESTING PEOPLE!!! I know it hurts and it's scary to get tested, but golly, one girls excuse was its too expensive... What?? 0.00$ is too expensive? 2 other kids in my class just went to the national show in Dallas, and are going back Monday. Really?

If I ran the school, if you are gone one day, you dont come back until I get a negative test. It's selfish. Some kids live with their grandparents and HAVE to go back to school because they simply can't learn online. Which is Understandable. But do you know how bad those kids would feel if they brought it home and one of their grandparents happened to not make it? I know death rates are lower because we simply know how to treat it now, but man... Some people only care about themselves and it shows. If y'all can't tell, I really dislike most of the people at my school lol. I can't wait to get outta there

On the other hand, I'm failing my first class lol... Social studies, but most of my class is failing that class because she's a really bad teacher. They hired a bunch of new teachers this year actually, and 3 of them have already been reported to the principle for not doing their job, so everybody is failing classes.

I haven't been able to get here much lately, which stinks. Online school really makes you tired of looking at a screen all day. But it's better than having to be around the kids in my class. Keep in mind, I'm a very social person but the kids in my class make we wanna scream lol. Either they are the stereotypical really mean popular, girls, or the boys who's only personality trait is playing video games. My friend is a year above me and shows cows, so all we talk about is goats and cows stuff lol

So... As you can tell I had a lot of catching up to do!! Lol. I hope y'all are staying safe and getting a lot of warm goatie snuggles during the fall!! I love fall in Texas sooo much, especially at the crack of dawn. It's so perfect.


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## Damfino

Thanks for the condolences everyone. My dad was an awesome guy. He loved life and lived every minute to the fullest. Whenever anybody asked him how he was doing he'd say he was "deliriously happy". And that's actually how he was.  

In 2010 the doctors gave him 2-5 years to live and he made it 10 years. We're so grateful for all those extra years and we made the most of them. I'm especially glad now that no one paid any attention to "quarantine" regulations and we spent these last few months still getting together quite regularly. He saw all of his kids and grandkids a lot. When you're dealing with terminal cancer, coronavirus seems pretty feeble by comparison. I feel bad for all those folks out there who stopped seeing friends and family and then died anyway--alone and with no love or happy times to ease their passing.


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## GoofyGoat

I'm so very sorry you lost your dad damfino, it sounds like he was an exceptional person. It's great y'all got to be together till the end. 
Enjoy your goat vacation


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## Lindan

I'm not dealing well. 
I think covid fatigue is hitting alot of people hard... 
The longer something sticks around, the harder it gets to take it seriously, people get numbed to it and as long as its not affecting them DIRECTLY, the less they belive that its a threat.

I have asthma, I have a cousin who was in hospital on a ventilator this spring, even though she is young and healthy, and barely made it out alive, I have been told of the fight to get even one breath in, still feeling like she was never going to get enough air... 
I hear all the time of people fighting to keep going after the get better, fighting the long term effects of having this illness... And I remember vividly; having bad astma attacks...

There's a big difference between cloth masks and medical grade masks, the medical masks are literally 3 times more effective, and you use them one day, and throw them away... They cost the equivalent of 75cents a piece here.

Fear is a great motivation to minimize things internally and the refuse to acknowledge that something can be a threat to you personally... That would be admitting that you might die...

I am afraid, I am terrified, and I wear a mask everytime I leave the house, I sanitizer my hands and surfaces that are in contact with the outside world. 

I am not going to minimise something that has killed close to a million people worldwide in less than a year, and everytime I start to let myself get pulled into that thinking, I look at the numbers from the different health ministries and the WHO, and I remember all those human beings who have lost their lives, and I refuse to let myself be selfish enough to say "it's not that bad", and I refuse to let a minor inconvenience like putting on a mask stop me from doing my part.

If people reacted this way back when washing your hands before surgery, was a new thing, in the 17/18 hundreds I wonder how many would have kept dying for small inconsequential procedures.


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## senoradirt

Lindan said:


> I'm not dealing well.
> I think covid fatigue is hitting alot of people hard...
> The longer something sticks around, the harder it gets to take it seriously, people get numbed to it and as long as its not affecting them DIRECTLY, the less they belive that its a threat.
> 
> I have asthma, I have a cousin who was in hospital on a ventilator this spring, even though she is young and healthy, and barely made it out alive, I have been told of the fight to get even one breath in, still feeling like she was never going to get enough air...
> I hear all the time of people fighting to keep going after the get better, fighting the long term effects of having this illness... And I remember vividly; having bad astma attacks...
> 
> There's a big difference between cloth masks and medical grade masks, the medical masks are literally 3 times more effective, and you use them one day, and throw them away... They cost the equivalent of 75cents a piece here.
> 
> Fear is a great motivation to minimize things internally and the refuse to acknowledge that something can be a threat to you personally... That would be admitting that you might die...
> 
> I am afraid, I am terrified, and I wear a mask everytime I leave the house, I sanitizer my hands and surfaces that are in contact with the outside world.
> 
> I am not going to minimise something that has killed close to a million people worldwide in less than a year, and everytime I start to let myself get pulled into that thinking, I look at the numbers from the different health ministries and the WHO, and I remember all those human beings who have lost their lives, and I refuse to let myself be selfish enough to say "it's not that bad", and I refuse to let a minor inconvenience like putting on a mask stop me from doing my part.
> 
> If people reacted this way back when washing your hands before surgery, was a new thing, in the 17/18 hundreds I wonder how many would have kept dying for small inconsequential procedures.


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## senoradirt

I wish you weren't so afraid. That's no way to live. However, as a human race, we have had to deal with viruses throughout our existence and the fact that we can get sick is part of being alive. And a person with a health problem doesn't mean we need to sentence the huge majority of us to a life that keeps us locked up, away from gatherings and church, and denies us fresh air (especially when wearing masks don't work and as you said, cloth masks especially do not work). The truth is, there is a huge probability that almost nobody will die from the Covid virus alone. Most of us don't even develop symptoms.








Keeping the virus out of a mask is like keeping a mosquito out through a chain link fence.

I don't believe this will make any difference to those who believe in Corona porn. People will believe what they believe. But don't make it harder for the rest of us who can think for ourselves.


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## Damfino

> But do you know how bad those kids would feel if they brought it home and one of their grandparents happened to not make it?


Ok, I'm SO tired of hearing people say this! NO ONE should feel guilty because someone caught an illness from them unless they gave it to that person on purpose. If you intentionally become infected and then cough in someone's face then sure, you're a bad person. But unintentionally (and perhaps even unknowingly) getting sick and spreading it naturally to someone else is not akin to murder. I would NEVER accuse some parent of killing their child if that parent caught the flu at work and spread it to their family and one of their children died. Because guess what... if you're under 40 years old you are statistically at greater risk of dying from the regular old boring flu than from Covid. Therefore we are putting kids at greater risk when we send them to school during flu season than we are of sending them to school during this Covid outbreak. Yet no one heaps guilt on people for not masking their children and forcing social distancing during flu season. We don't test kids for flu every time they enter or leave school. Why not?? Because we accept that life has certain very minimal risks. The greatest cause of accidental death in children is car accidents which means that transporting kids to and from school could actually kill them. Kids at school can also be shot, knifed, and bullied into suicide while there. But do we as a society heap guilt on parents for sending their kids to a place where these bad things, however rare, could still potentially happen to them? NO!

I'm tired of hearing "stay safe." We're not safe. From the moment we're born into this world we're at risk of dying somewhere along the way. I ride horses and that's a very risky activity. I teach riding lessons which means I'm putting other people's children at risk every time I put them on a horse. But does that make me a bad person? I certainly hope not! We weigh risks vs. benefits and we make decisions accordingly.

Hannibal Smith of the A-Team once said, "A life without danger is like a house of ill repute without the naked ladies."

It's one of my favorite quotes.

At this point we've seen the risks of Covid-19 and we've discovered that it's not nearly as dangerous as it was projected to be when it first arrived on the scene. This is FANTASTIC news and we should be loosening our behavior accordingly, not doubling down on restrictions based on fears that turned out to be thankfully unfounded. If the death toll were as high as initially believed then there would be no need for quarantines, mask mandates, or social distancing orders. People would hunker down on their own without being told because fear would guide their behavior far better than government ever could. Testing wouldn't be needed because the effects of the disease would be obvious to everyone. No one needed tests to know that the Spanish flu epidemic was really bad and that it tended to target young people. The fact that we generally can't even tell if Covid is hitting our communities without testing for it tells me it's not nearly as serious as we keep being told (unless you are already so old and infirm that you are in a nursing home). For many people, the fear of coronavirus is far worse than the disease itself. In fact, some rural areas are now reporting 2-5 times as many suicides than normal due to fear and severe economic hardship brought on by this country's pandemic response. One of our counties here in Colorado has had only one Covid death this year and nine suicides. The latest one left a note that specifically named coronavirus stress, and it's strongly suspected in influencing many of the other eight suicides. I'm convinced that this year's riots, protests, arsons, and unusually high murder rates are a direct result of pandemic stress. Folks, if the stress caused by our collective response to a disease is worse than the disease itself, it's time to examine our methods.


----------



## senoradirt

Damfino said:


> Ok, I'm SO tired of hearing people say this! NO ONE should feel guilty because someone caught an illness from them unless they gave it to that person on purpose. If you intentionally become infected and then cough in someone's face then sure, you're a bad person. But unintentionally (and perhaps even unknowingly) getting sick and spreading it naturally to someone else is not akin to murder. I would NEVER accuse some parent of killing their child if that parent caught the flu at work and spread it to their family and one of their children died. Because guess what... if you're under 40 years old you are statistically at greater risk of dying from the regular old boring flu than from Covid. Therefore we are putting kids at greater risk when we send them to school during flu season than we are of sending them to school during this Covid outbreak. Yet no one heaps guilt on people for not masking their children and forcing social distancing during flu season. We don't test kids for flu every time they enter or leave school. Why not?? Because we accept that life has certain very minimal risks. The greatest cause of accidental death in children is car accidents which means that transporting kids to and from school could actually kill them. Kids at school can also be shot, knifed, and bullied into suicide while there. But do we as a society heap guilt on parents for sending their kids to a place where these bad things, however rare, could still potentially happen to them? NO!
> Well well well said
> I'm tired of hearing "stay safe." We're not safe. From the moment we're born into this world we're at risk of dying somewhere along the way. I ride horses and that's a very risky activity. I teach riding lessons which means I'm putting other people's children at risk every time I put them on a horse. But does that make me a bad person? I certainly hope not! We weigh risks vs. benefits and we make decisions accordingly.
> 
> Hannibal Smith of the A-Team once said, "A life without danger is like a house of ill repute without the naked ladies."
> 
> It's one of my favorite quotes.
> 
> At this point we've seen the risks of Covid-19 and we've discovered that it's not nearly as dangerous as it was projected to be when it first arrived on the scene. This is FANTASTIC news and we should be loosening our behavior accordingly, not doubling down on restrictions based on fears that turned out to be thankfully unfounded. If the death toll were as high as initially believed then there would be no need for quarantines, mask mandates, or social distancing orders. People would hunker down on their own without being told because fear would guide their behavior far better than government ever could. Testing wouldn't be needed because the effects of the disease would be obvious to everyone. No one needed tests to know that the Spanish flu epidemic was really bad and that it tended to target young people. The fact that we generally can't even tell if Covid is hitting our communities without testing for it tells me it's not nearly as serious as we keep being told (unless you are already so old and infirm that you are in a nursing home). For many people, the fear of coronavirus is far worse than the disease itself. In fact, some rural areas are now reporting 2-5 times as many suicides than normal due to fear and severe economic hardship brought on by this country's pandemic response. One of our counties here in Colorado has had only one Covid death this year and nine suicides. The latest one left a note that specifically named coronavirus stress, and it's strongly suspected in influencing many of the other eight suicides. I'm convinced that this year's riots, protests, arsons, and unusually high murder rates are a direct result of pandemic stress. Folks, if the stress caused by our collective response to a disease is worse than the disease itself, it's time to examine our methods.


----------



## Tanya

I agree with Damfino. I have been sick twice now with Covid. My husband died and I survived. My children have both been exposed and neither have been ill. 
My dad, who killed himself last year used to say,
"There are three things guarenteed. 1. You are born. 2. You pay taxes. 3. You die". 
How you live is important. Living in fear will kill you eventually.


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## senoradirt

Well said Damfino


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## happybleats

I'm with Damfino..well put. The existence of the covid had done more harm than the virus itself. 
Such a sad time we live in..

@Damfino i think I would have enjoyed visiting with your dad!! What an amazing person he must have been.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Damfino, I'm sorry about your dad
> 
> I didn't go back to school, but most of my school went back in August. Technically they should be shut down already. Got their first confirmed case the 3rd day, 3 other people went home the 4th day not feeling well, about 2 weeks later a girl got in a wreck, went to the hospital and tested positive,then her friend tested positive the day after that, and my friend had corona symptoms, but didnt get tested, and went back the day after her last fever, even though school rules are you have to wait 24 hours after your last fever. That stuff bothers me SO much. FREE TESTING PEOPLE!!! I know it hurts and it's scary to get tested, but golly, one girls excuse was its too expensive... What?? 0.00$ is too expensive? 2 other kids in my class just went to the national show in Dallas, and are going back Monday. Really?
> 
> If I ran the school, if you are gone one day, you dont come back until I get a negative test. It's selfish. Some kids live with their grandparents and HAVE to go back to school because they simply can't learn online. Which is Understandable. But do you know how bad those kids would feel if they brought it home and one of their grandparents happened to not make it? I know death rates are lower because we simply know how to treat it now, but man... Some people only care about themselves and it shows. If y'all can't tell, I really dislike most of the people at my school lol. I can't wait to get outta there
> 
> On the other hand, I'm failing my first class lol... Social studies, but most of my class is failing that class because she's a really bad teacher. They hired a bunch of new teachers this year actually, and 3 of them have already been reported to the principle for not doing their job, so everybody is failing classes.
> 
> I haven't been able to get here much lately, which stinks. Online school really makes you tired of looking at a screen all day. But it's better than having to be around the kids in my class. Keep in mind, I'm a very social person but the kids in my class make we wanna scream lol. Either they are the stereotypical really mean popular, girls, or the boys who's only personality trait is playing video games. My friend is a year above me and shows cows, so all we talk about is goats and cows stuff lol
> 
> So... As you can tell I had a lot of catching up to do!! Lol. I hope y'all are staying safe and getting a lot of warm goatie snuggles during the fall!! I love fall in Texas sooo much, especially at the crack of dawn. It's so perfect.


Death rates are not lower because we know how to treat it now. Death rates have always been low, the numbers were just well buried on the CDC website and tailored at the beginning (which the CDC even admitted to, as a "mistake.")

So sorry to hear about your classes. Learning is different for everyone. Unfortunately, public and most other school systems do not allow for that. I know many friends who are switching their children to homeschool during this time. Don't be afraid to go down the education path that YOU need! Hugs!!


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## Iluvlilly!

I feel bad for all the kids that have to go to school or do it virtual.(grouphug)
I am homeschooled so this virus doesn't effect me at all (in that way at least) I do it all (except for Spanish) in text books and write it all out, I think i learn better that way!
This Covid thing is getting to be interesting, you hear so much stuff from the news and all that, all's I want is the truth but no no the news has to scare everybody and all that.
Just my little rant!


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## Moers kiko boars

Well I don't know about your part of the world..but my part is putting masks on 5 yes old & up. Our covid numbers are increasing daily. Teachers are wearing masks and are afraid to go to work. I've always worked with the public..and it always amazes me how easy it is to believe in rumors. No hard facts..nonmedical training ..just make it up. Right..isn't that called mob mentality? 
Wearing a mask is as simple as covering your face when you sneeze or cough. Let's face it..most of you.dont work..and your complaining about having consideration to another person...for possibly an hour? So..by not wearing a mask in public..your saying it's ok to sneeze in my.face, cough in my face,wipe your hands on me..because this virus doesn't exist..because I say so..or a kid show person said something? 
Sorry I disagree. 
If Im going to quarantine my new goats from my main herd..or distance a sick goat from my main herd. I'm going to wear a mask. If I'm going to watch my individual goat for signs of illness so I can treat for the change. I'm going to wear a mask, use social distance and wash my hands. EVEN GOATS DISTANCE themselves from the herd...if they are sick. Geeeez...take some info from your herd. 
So regardless of your mental opinion..stay safe. If you.dont care about yourself...maybe wear protection for the people who are at risk. They appreciate it.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Well i guess thats just how i think. I would blame myself for bringing it home wether it was really my fault or not.


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## toth boer goats

We sadly have different opinions.

Please everyone, don't let this get out of control, with discussing this subject.
We need to be civil and not mean or angry.
I see why, we may disagree, it is very stressful, all the way around, no matter how you look at it.

If we can keep this friendly, I will keep this thread open.
So do not type something which will start conflict.

I see people so scared, they are wearing a mask in their vehicles, when they are alone. Or walking down the street. A bit over kill perhaps?

Under normal situations, with social distancing, we are not up in your face, coughing, sneezing etc, trying to get you sick.
The weird thing is, I have seen on facebook a person yelling at another person, who is not wearing a mask, but who was indeed social distancing, the instigator, then works their way over to this person in anger, getting up in that persons face, who is not wearing a mask, get out of control and the mask, which the instigator was wearing, drops down, which now, exposed themselves, if indeed that person they approached has it.
Makes no sense.


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## luvmyherd

Thanks for that tgb. I would hate to see this thread lost as I have gotten more truth from it than just about anywhere else. Something I learned decades ago; *take what you like and leave the rest*.



Iluvlilly! said:


> all's I want is the truth


In spades and double!! I hate entertainment *news* whether it is dealing with Covid or taxes or the dangers of thinking for yourself or the refusal to say how many people arrived home safely today. That and almost *ALL* advertising!
I have really been missing my goats as this staying home drags on. We do plan to make it to Seattle to see the grandkids but we will follow recommended protocols for us and them. We had planned to go sooner but smoke and family problems interfered.


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## Jessica84

I guess I am in the middle of the whole extreme scale way of thinking on this one. I’m not going to scream at people for not wearing a mask lol forcing people to wear a mask is very much against our rights and I totally detest that probably the most but I do wear one when I go out in public and I keep my distance. When masks started becoming mandatory a lot of people I guess seem to only be able to focus on one thing at a time and the distance thing seems to be forgotten and that drives me nuts. 
Now this is my own view and I am not trying to change anyone’s way of viewing AT ALL! I really dont think it is as bad as they say it is BUT I sure am not going to risk myself or my family to find out if I am right or not because I do think there is a lot of unknowns. Yes I see that example of driving down the road and getting in a accident used a lot and there is a lot of truth to it but I also do things to try and prevent that accident. I don’t speed, pass on a double yellow, tailgate, and so on. And I don’t because I absolutely would feel terrible if I was behind the wheel and killed one of my family members and it would be 10X worse if I could have prevented it. My parents are very much the perfect people for this to kill by what they are claiming. So I would much rather not be the cause of them croaking. 
Another thing that a lot of people don’t think about and I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but it is something that will happen, is being under quarantine. I and my family can NOT be placed on quarantine right now! The sheriffs are not going to go to the feed store for me when they force me not to leave my property (again going against our rights), there will be no feeding my animals, no checking on our cattle at rentals, no gathering cows out of this fire or getting vet supplies for them and we are on a time line to get them out before they are burned worse or the snow falls or whatever is still alive will for sure be dead. Also no work for my husband and if he tests positive no work for his coworkers. If my kids test positive and go to the hospital I also can not go see them, they will try to stop me, I’ll go postal, end up in jail and well I’ll just grumble and just keep my mask on, keep my distance from others avoid shopping at the town that the daily numbers are high and go to the town that I hate going to and get my groceries.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

Tanya said:


> @jschies alcohol creates more casualties and less beds in hospital


How?

Maybe @jschies should have added all our liquor stores have been open and NEVER closed.....they were considered essential. Bars were closed because they are purposely trying and succeeding to hurt our economy.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

Tanya said:


> I agree with Damfino. I have been sick twice now with Covid. My husband died and I survived. My children have both been exposed and neither have been ill.
> My dad, who killed himself last year used to say,
> "There are three things guarenteed. 1. You are born. 2. You pay taxes. 3. You die".
> How you live is important. Living in fear will kill you eventually.


I'm sorry.....your husband died of COVID?


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## Damfino

I guess what I can't stand about the mask-wearing is that it alienates people from one another. We can't communicate properly or smile at each other and despite what I keep being told, I don't actually believe it's making anyone safer. I especially think it's nonsense for those of us who already had Covid, which is MANY, MANY people at this point. So when do we get to stop wearing masks? Never?? Because right now they don't let you stop wearing a mask if you had Covid and recovered, so there's no reason for them to let you stop wearing one if you are vaccinated either. Because those two things are EXACTLY THE SAME THING!! If getting sick and recovering can't protect us, then neither can a vaccine. How can people possibly not understand this very simple concept??

I think masks make most people LESS safe because no one seems capable of wearing them properly (including myself). They also force people to lean in closer and raise their voices in order to communicate. I've never stood so close to others in order to have a conversation as I have since the mask mandate came into play. They also give people a false sense of security so they can feel like it's not necessary to stay home when sick. After all, they're protecting everyone by wearing a mask!

And then there's the problem with which type of mask. A bunch of folks are still wearing the kind with the vents on them which apparently are a big no-no. And now there's been a study that found that neck gaiters, which are probably the most common type of mask worn in my area, actually spread particles further and in smaller aerosols than regular breathing, making gaiter-wearers more likely to spread germs than those who wear no mask at all. Oops. Stuff like this makes the "wear a mask to save others" argument seem pretty hollow to me. If it makes some people feel better to wear a mask because they truly believe it will save others, great. But personally I think everyone's masks are gross, problematic, and making all of us _less_ safe so it doesn't hurt my conscience to not wear one. I'm grossed out by my own filthy mask but after I forgot it at home a couple of times and had to borrow other people's in order to get into the grocery store I decided that wearing someone else's mask is still grosser than wearing my own no matter how dirty mine is compared to theirs. I'm not too worried about getting Covid again, but I really don't want mono! So my mask now lives in the console of my truck and doesn't get to leave except when it's on my face.

Finally, the best scenario is for case numbers to increase while death rates drop. Since we are currently on that trajectory (and have been all summer) I think we're on a good path. So why are masks so all-important now when the danger is tapering off, but they weren't necessary last spring when the danger was at its peak? And why is it that the states with the strictest mandates are faring no better (and often faring worse!) than states without all the mandates? If mask-wearing and social distancing were so effective, then California should be doing fantastically (and New York should have done really well too) but we all know how that turned out. It's not that I'm selfish when I say I hate mask mandates. If I truly believed it would help others then I'd be happy to do it. However, I remain completely unconvinced that it's remotely effective in its application to the general public. It's a placebo and I hate being forced to contribute to something I fully believe is nothing more than a stressful, fear-inducing theater production.


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## HoosierShadow

I haven't posted here in ages. I feel the same way as Jessica (although I admit... I have a lead foot at times!). We aren't around anyone really that is high risk, but that doesn't mean we don't mask up and take precautions. I worry about the virus, but I'm tired of being told to be afraid and stop living which is basically what the Government has had us do since March.

My husband, my daughter and I went for a quick trip to the orchard last weekend so my husband could get some local honey, we also stopped by our local grocery to grab a few things.
That is the first time my husband has stepped foot into our grocery store (or any grocery) since the end of February! he's been to Lowe's and TSC 2x each this year. Work. Home. Work. Home.
My daughter and I have ventured out a little more here and there but not much. We are under mandatory mask law here.

A couple of weeks ago I finally...FINALLY... got to go to a horse event. The BIG yearling horse sale. They have an app called Virtual Badge that you have to apply for a credential, so I applied for media since I was supposed to work the sale. I also had to go to the track and get tested for the virus, then upload my results and submit so I could get approved.
I was told afterward that I could only go in the sales pavilion for random horses, not stay in there. Well... there goes my job for that sale, because I NEED to stay in there and get pretty much every horse - I never know who I need until after the sale is over. 
So I just opted to stand outside and get something of every horse coming/going from the sales ring, and while I lost out on the job front, I still have my private sales photo sales, and I enjoyed it very much. Later when those horses race, those pictures can be of use.
Honestly, I think it's silly I could not be inside.
The most frustrating part of the sale is finding out that owners and buyers were not made to take the test, and while it was said masks are mandatory, I'd say maybe 50-60% of people at most were wearing masks or social distancing. It's frustrating, because most of the non mask wearing people were owners/buyers, but yet us 'little people' had to be tested? It makes no sense 

The track's fall race meet starts this coming Friday. I didn't even find out if I was going to be able to work it until yesterday! Ugh. Not much time to prep for that, and still don't know some of the details. I do know they are doing the same Virtual Badge app, and I need to go tomorrow or Tues if I want to take the opportunity of getting virus tested on site, so... I'll do that tomorrow. I do think they will possibly enforce the mask issue more for the races. 
Only limited media is allowed, and no General admission, only season boxholders and club members will be allowed to attend the races outside of owners/trainers/jockeys/grooms.
I'm looking forward to going, but at the same time I know it won't be the same 
There is a major racing championship in November at the track (moves around each year), and we at least have our team for that including my kids as helpers. We're all looking forward to that.

My daughter is doing virtual schooling and so far so good. It's been about a month and a half now. Tomorrow, in school finally gets to start, and I'm hoping and praying it goes smoothly for all those returning. My daughter will stay on virtual until winter break, then we have the option to go to in school. My daughter is definitely starting to feel sad about not going back 

My son is in college/trade school and goes 4 days a week, so basically his schooling is not affected.

Sorry to write a book!


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## Tanya

@MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm yes my husband is a smoker. He and I got sick the same time. We went into quarentine. 3 days in he developed ashthma problems. 5 days in he was on a ventilator. 7 days in he died.
Alcohol here is abused terribly. Once they re opened its use we had 70% casualty and icu cases due to alcohol. Mostly MVA and assault. Smoking is not so bad. But alcohol here is a pure evil. Especially with gender based violence. Our country is in the top ten for this.


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## senoradirt

Who is coughing in anyone's face? Really? I hardly see anyone walk right up to another person to cough or sneeze in their face (I have had my goats sneeze in my face. It's very rude of them but I've survived so far). Most people I pass in the grocery store seem willing to let me pass unmolested but I'll look out in case someone lunges in my direction with a crazy look in their eye.

Panic porn has taken over this country to the extent that we have these really ridiculous...opinions- opinions and statements and FEELINGS that are sadly un-tethered to facts.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

senoradirt said:


> Who is coughing in anyone's face? Really? I hardly see anyone walk right up to another person to cough or sneeze in their face (I have had my goats sneeze in my face. It's very rude of them but I've survived so far). Most people I pass in the grocery store seem willing to let me pass unmolested but I'll look out in case someone lunges in my direction with a crazy look in their eye.
> 
> Panic porn has taken over this country to the extent that we have these really ridiculous...opinions- opinions and statements and FEELINGS that are sadly un-tethered to facts.


But goat burps are much ruder than the sneezes! You think you're getting a cuddle and then they let one loose!! And mine have garlic breath.


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## Tanya

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> But goat burps are much ruder than the sneezes! You think you're getting a cuddle and then they let one loose!! And mine have garlic breath.


I know right! And the garlic ones come pared with an onion smell or even that just chewed cud smell that is so aromatic.... . Destiny loves those. Especially when she cuddles with Chevani. Its her way of sayin " I love you mom"


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## toth boer goats

Yeah, but it really reeks. :imok:


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## Tanya

toth boer goats said:


> Yeah, but it really reeks. :imok:


Aw but you gotta love them. Its like your barn cat bringing you a headless mouse which you must graciously accept as a gift or he will go all pet semetary on you. You know.


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## senoradirt

Nothing quite like a pungent goat burp! I don't think any self-respecting virus would last long in such an emission


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## Tanya

senoradirt said:


> Nothing quite like a pungent goat burp! I don't think any self-respecting virus would last long in such an emission


Of course. It just makes your day


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## toth boer goats

:crazy::haha: Yeah, I love the goats no matter how they smell, LOL.


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## Moers kiko boars

What is hilarious to me..is when the boys cough and expel gas at the same time. Talk about pungent! Whew..PePee La Pue!:2c: ..


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

Tanya said:


> @MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm yes my husband is a smoker. He and I got sick the same time. We went into quarentine. 3 days in he developed ashthma problems. 5 days in he was on a ventilator. 7 days in he died.
> Alcohol here is abused terribly. Once they re opened its use we had 70% casualty and icu cases due to alcohol. Mostly MVA and assault. Smoking is not so bad. But alcohol here is a pure evil. Especially with gender based violence. Our country is in the top ten for this.


I am sorry to hear about your husband. I will pray for peace and healing for you.

I disagree with you about the bars though. Restaurants serve alcohol and liquor stores have remained open. Texas needs to be reopwnwd completely. My family has 9 nurses in it and the consensus is that masks do not work. Just our opinion.


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## Tanya

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> I am sorry to hear about your husband. I will pray for peace and healing for you.
> 
> I disagree with you about the bars though. Restaurants serve alcohol and liquor stores have remained open. Texas needs to be reopwnwd completely. My family has 9 nurses in it and the consensus is that masks do not work. Just our opinion.


I agree about masks not working. Sanitizing your hands the whole day is also not healthy. I was wearing a mask when I got sick the second time. The first time we got sick, we got it from a worker who jad gone to collect the animal feed.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

Tanya said:


> I agree about masks not working. Sanitizing your hands the whole day is also not healthy. I was wearing a mask when I got sick the second time. The first time we got sick, we got it from a worker who jad gone to collect the animal feed.


I forgot you are in South Africa. I can understand your statement better now about alcohol.....I am so very over this pandemic, uuuuugggghhhhh


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## Tanya

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> I forgot you are in South Africa. I can understand your statement better now about alcohol.....I am so very over this pandemic, uuuuugggghhhhh


Yeah South Africans just cannot handle their liquor. I cant drink and never attempted to either.


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## Aozora

Something else to think about around COVID-19. My husband has severe asthma and a heart murmur. He was sick back in early March, so sick he went to his pulmonologist. Of course then they wouldn't test for COVID unless you had been out of the country or in direct contact with someone who had it, but we do know it wasn't flu since his flu test came back negative. They asked him at the time when he had had pneumonia, and he answered "???" because as far as he knew he hadn't but they saw the damage in both lungs.

Last week he went for a yearly checkup with his cardiologist. He mentioned the mystery illness and they wanted him tested by a specialist. Guess what, new heart damage. It doesn't seem severe, but now he's going to need to be tested by a specialist every 3 months.

When it became common knowledge that losing sense of smell is a symptom, we both recalled losing our sense of smell to that mystery illness. So it's likely we had coronavirus. And now he has even more damage to his already weak heart and lungs.

What does this disease mean in the long term? We don't know yet. But if it can damage hearts and lungs the way it did to him, we are going to see a LOT of long-term issues and a lot of people dying down the road as a result of this pandemic that some people are treating lightly because the (immediate) death rate isn't that high.

And if it turns out you can catch different variants/mutations of it like we're starting to see stories about, I'm scared. My husband survived this round, with damage. What about the next one? We're doing what we can to protect ourselves, (wearing masks 24/7, not going out except for groceries/animal feed) but we're both essential workers and we can't just quit our jobs. We will be exposed again.


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## Jessica84

Damfino said:


> I guess what I can't stand about the mask-wearing is that it alienates people from one another. We can't communicate properly or smile at each other and despite what I keep being told, I don't actually believe it's making anyone safer. I especially think it's nonsense for those of us who already had Covid, which is MANY, MANY people at this point. So when do we get to stop wearing masks? Never?? Because right now they don't let you stop wearing a mask if you had Covid and recovered, so there's no reason for them to let you stop wearing one if you are vaccinated either. Because those two things are EXACTLY THE SAME THING!! If getting sick and recovering can't protect us, then neither can a vaccine. How can people possibly not understand this very simple concept??
> 
> I think masks make most people LESS safe because no one seems capable of wearing them properly (including myself). They also force people to lean in closer and raise their voices in order to communicate. I've never stood so close to others in order to have a conversation as I have since the mask mandate came into play. They also give people a false sense of security so they can feel like it's not necessary to stay home when sick. After all, they're protecting everyone by wearing a mask!
> 
> And then there's the problem with which type of mask. A bunch of folks are still wearing the kind with the vents on them which apparently are a big no-no. And now there's been a study that found that neck gaiters, which are probably the most common type of mask worn in my area, actually spread particles further and in smaller aerosols than regular breathing, making gaiter-wearers more likely to spread germs than those who wear no mask at all. Oops. Stuff like this makes the "wear a mask to save others" argument seem pretty hollow to me. If it makes some people feel better to wear a mask because they truly believe it will save others, great. But personally I think everyone's masks are gross, problematic, and making all of us _less_ safe so it doesn't hurt my conscience to not wear one. I'm grossed out by my own filthy mask but after I forgot it at home a couple of times and had to borrow other people's in order to get into the grocery store I decided that wearing someone else's mask is still grosser than wearing my own no matter how dirty mine is compared to theirs. I'm not too worried about getting Covid again, but I really don't want mono! So my mask now lives in the console of my truck and doesn't get to leave except when it's on my face.
> 
> Finally, the best scenario is for case numbers to increase while death rates drop. Since we are currently on that trajectory (and have been all summer) I think we're on a good path. So why are masks so all-important now when the danger is tapering off, but they weren't necessary last spring when the danger was at its peak? And why is it that the states with the strictest mandates are faring no better (and often faring worse!) than states without all the mandates? If mask-wearing and social distancing were so effective, then California should be doing fantastically (and New York should have done really well too) but we all know how that turned out. It's not that I'm selfish when I say I hate mask mandates. If I truly believed it would help others then I'd be happy to do it. However, I remain completely unconvinced that it's remotely effective in its application to the general public. It's a placebo and I hate being forced to contribute to something I fully believe is nothing more than a stressful, fear-inducing theater production.


Sorry I can't pick and choose different parts but I am not fully disagreeing with you on anything really. I know I really do have a lot of mixed feelings on this topic and I do see both sides. I'm really not sure what is the right answer here other then maybe letting different business pick and choose if they are pro mask or not and people respect that choice. That way the people who are die hard pro masks can go where they feel safe. 
I also do fully agree with you on the not wearing the mask correctly and always touching it. I have to remind myself very often not to touch the dang thing when it's touching my long bottom eyelashes lol my daughter is flat out impossible on getting threw to her on the whole don't touch your mask. So when I go to the city she just doesn't go. Really I don't know, I just know I'm doing what I feel is right to do for me and mine and that's all we can do. I do have to say though when I shop I make the best of it, I hit all the stores I need to go to so I don't have to deal with people again for a long time (I'm really not a people person lol) and my throat does hurt when I wear that mask all day long. It I'm 36, not super young but not old and in bad health, as much as I hate being sick I would rather be sick and make it then chance my parent. 
Actually the more I think about the stores and what not being in charge of the masks the more it makes sense. That is basically what the schools around here are doing. If you feel comfortable enough to send your kids back to school then it will be open next month for them if not then they can keep doing the zoom meetings. Although I'm sure the masks are going to be required, but it would still give people back their right to decide what they want to do.


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## Damfino

I'm quite sure everyone will be exposed again... and again... and again. This virus will never go away and there was never a way to stop it. I'm confident that most people will produce good antibodies that prevent them from reinfection for at least a year or two afterwards, and that even after antibodies fade away, our T cells will remember the virus for the rest of our lives and be ready to produce appropriate antibodies immediately, making reinfections mild for most people. I would not be surprised if many of the asymptomatic cases they're finding now are actually second infections. They might even be nature's equivalent to a booster shot. 

Most people's bodies are reacting properly, but for those with compromised immune systems, their body's overreaction to a novel virus seems to be what's killing or permanently damaging them more than the virus itself. With any novel virus that spreads this far and wide, no matter how mild it is there will always be a subset of people who react poorly and die or have permanent damage. This is sad but not unexpected. The same thing can be said for how people react to flu and a lot of other bugs, and heck even to normally harmless things like strawberries and peanuts. For some reason there is a subset of people who experience extreme reactions to things that are not dangerous to almost anyone else. We feel bad for these folks, but we don't ban every single thing that might cause someone to have a bad or even fatal reaction. 

I'm just rather appalled that we've tried to "stop the spread" all summer and now into fall when we should have actually been encouraging a bit MORE spread so that we would have fewer infections this winter when people will be forced indoors where there is higher viral load. Summer/fall infections are bound to be generally milder since it's easier to access fresh air and sunlight. This would have been a good opportunity to encourage a bit more herd immunity before the cold/flu season hits.


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## Damfino

Covid-19 deaths just reached 1 million worldwide and we act like this is big news and could have been prevented if only we'd shut down everything and required universal testing, contact tracing, and mask-wearing sooner. But to give a bit of perspective, mosquitos kill over 1 million people EVERY year. Yet despite knowing ahead of time that more than a million people will die _every single year_, no country has ever required businesses to shut down, for people to remain indoors during mosquito season, and for everyone to wear full-body mosquito netting. Why not? These measures would be so simple and would save so many lives, yet no one has ever required them. I have to ask why not when we always know in advance that that these deaths WILL occur every year if we don't take proactive measures. For those who are in favor of shut-downs, social distancing, quarantines, and masks, where have they been all these years during the very predictable annual mosquito plague?


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## Tanya

@Damfino My doctor would agree with you. Mine and my daughters have built a natural immunity to this virus. We have even given blood to check the level of immunity. But they forget that the Spanish flu killed more people worldwide back in the day. 
Our species has outlived many catastrophical viruses and natural events.


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## senoradirt

I'm just rather appalled that we've tried to "stop the spread" all summer and now into fall when we should have actually been encouraging a bit MORE spread so that we would have fewer infections this winter when people will be forced indoors where there is higher viral load.

Above a quote from Damfino. I'm not good at this replying yet.

Yes, herd immunity. The age-old system for defeating illnesses -sometimes called "umbrella immunity" (if you listen to FAuci, and please don't listen to Fauci). Used by Sweden who never shut down anything in their country for Covid. Schools never shut down. Businesses, restaurants, open. And it's the country where the Covid pandemic is virtually over, but nobody knows this thanks to the media. They're GOOD.

With herd immunity, the virus gets passed on, constantly being degraded as it goes (Covid becomes less & less dangerous, because viruses are programmed to "live" and therefore if it kills the patient it won't survive) and it's transferred to people who have the strongest immunity (those with weakest immune systems are always hit first). Virus dies out.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

My question from the very beginning has been why are we not finding thousands of dead homeless folks, if this virus is that deadly?!?!? They are the most at risk from lack of medical care and lack of ability to sanitize and clean. If this had been the black plague, where people were actually dying in the street..... well, that woukd have been one thing but the numbers for COVID were and still are NOT anything to panic over. Certainly not closing our economy down. We have had so many small businesses close over COVID. Please know this, also, our household has a kidney transplant patient (our 38 yr old son) and a 62 yr old (my husband) in it. Our son has been extremely careful, as have all of us, when going out. But to blame non mask wearers, (ME), or say masks are a solution just doesn't make sense. If yiu believe in them, wear them. If you have a comprised immune system, STAY HOME. The risk with an already compromised immune system is too great. Call neighbors, friends and family to help run errands. I am happy to do those things for our older, less healthy family and friends.


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## MidnightRavenFarm

I am waiting for my daughter to see a specialist to see if she has lupus. She has a lot of the symptoms and Initial labs kind of point in that direction. So I have decided to keep her home this semester just in case her immune system is compromised. We only leave the house to get groceries and feed and always wear mask and sanitize our hands after we go into every store. But I’m so paranoid it’s not enough.


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## Goats Rock

I got scolded (blush) at the grocery store the other day. I only go at 9:30 on Sun. eves. (they close at 10). I get my stuff and get out. I dutifully wear a stupid mask. I'm the only one in the store. Some moronic incorrectly mask wearing pubescent employee had the audacity to tell me I was going the wrong way down an aisle.:ahh: I was literally the only shopper in the entire store!

Now this clown was wearing his filthy (used to be white, now grey, looked like dirty underpants) mask below his nose. I just looked at him, said sorry. I was shopping, never looked down to see the one way only signs decalled to the floor. Sheesh. I generally only look for whatever item I need, if its not eye level, I don't see it! 

I hate this stupid covid nonsense.


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## cristina-sorina

Goats Rock said:


> I got scolded (blush) at the grocery store the other day. I only go at 9:30 on Sun. eves. (they close at 10). I get my stuff and get out. I dutifully wear a stupid mask. I'm the only one in the store. Some moronic incorrectly mask wearing pubescent employee had the audacity to tell me I was going the wrong way down an aisle.:ahh: I was literally the only shopper in the entire store!
> 
> Now this clown was wearing his filthy (used to be white, now grey, looked like dirty underpants) mask below his nose. I just looked at him, said sorry. I was shopping, never looked down to see the one way only signs decalled to the floor. Sheesh. I generally only look for whatever item I need, if its not eye level, I don't see it!
> 
> I hate this stupid covid nonsense.


THIS is SO annoying! I understand your frustration. Im sure COVID got the message that if you follow the little arrows on the store floor you are safe and it shouldn't infect you? (I'm being sarcastic).

It kills me at our grocercy store how they changed the main entrance to one entrance and one exit...how does this make sense?? How does directing the flow of people stop viral spread? What study has proven this even works?


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## luvmyherd

Oh boy! The media. We saw a teaser for the news last night that hinted that more panic buying has already started. I turned to my husband and said, "One stupid teaser like that is all they need to set off another TP and canned food run." He was like, "I had the same thought exactly."
We need truth and facts; not entertainment!!
As far as taking a stand goes; I really can't because I cannot find enough facts. And I don't want to spend hours researching. I just want to be told the truth. Or, if the truth is not really out there because they do not know enough yet; admit it.
I have argued that people get sick and die. I get reamed out for that. Somehow/somewhere we have decided that we can beat (or improve) nature. History shows us that we can't. That being said I am not anti-science and medicine. I just feel we have to have a realistic balance.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

I have been very fortunate because only one person has said anything to me and it was in Sam's Club and he said, "Nice mask". I wasn't wearing one. I stopped and looked him straight in the eyes and said, "It is not my job to make you feel good. Go talk to your wife about that." He didn't respond, which was good for both us. If anyone asks me nicely to wear a mask, I usually just respond with, "You know, I don't need to spend my money here after all." We both get our way. I leave and spend my dollars elsewhere and they don't have to deal with me.


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## Damfino

I'd have said, "Thanks! I work really hard at the 'au naturale' look. I'm so happy you noticed!" 

I'm currently vacationing in Utah and have hardly seen a mask all week except on a few Asian tourists, and the restaurants here are operating at full capacity. It's nice to feel like I'm living on a normal planet again, and it's really nice to be in a place where small businesses aren't being crippled by half-capacity mandates. They operate on such a narrow margin as it is that they can't afford these prolonged restrictions. It's like all these rules are made only for big box stores and nationwide chains that have huge bottom lines. 

I'm not particularly looking forward to being back in Colorado right now, which is an unprecedented feeling for me. Normally I love being home as much as I love traveling, and I love Colorado more than any state we ever visit. But at the moment I find my home state a little depressing.


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## NDinKY

I know some people don’t believe masks are effective but if you look at the numbers (cases per 100,000; Ro) comparing areas which mandated masks earlier on vs those that didn’t (Florida) it is telling. Florida had a defined peak with many people getting sick at once. Ohio has not had that, rather the curve has flattened. Are people in Ohio still getting sick? Yes, they are. But the difference is each person sick is only getting one other person sick on average (Ro has been ~1 for the past several months). This will take longer but with proper precautions most businesses can stay open and people can do most normal things wearing a mask and trying to keep distance. The states that didn’t mandate masks until later saw Ro much higher, demonstrating exponential spread. To visualize this data there is a website called worldometers.com that lets you graph everything. For some states it even breaks it down by county. 

I see our local numbers daily, and we get reports daily on actual numbers admitted to our hospital. There is a local organization that tracks the 14 county rates, hospital admissions, ICU admissions, and bed availability. Now when the university opened, the students were packing bars and lots of parties. Covid is ripping through them like crazy, which might be overall a benefit. Instead of sending them home to infect their parents, grandparents, etc, they’re quarantining on campus. Hopefully those 18-24 yr olds will gain immunity with minimal overall risk. 

Bars vs liquor stores are very different. Liquor store are considered essential because alcoholics can literally die from withdrawal (it’s one of the few substances that will try to kill you if you stop suddenly; opiates won’t kill you but you’ll feel like you’re dying). So we cannot suddenly cut alcoholics off, but they can drink at home, away from others. Bars and nightclubs are not essential to keep someone from dying. There is no way to socially distance in either of those settings, and chances are you’re not able to wear a mask as you’re drinking the whole time. I do feel bad for those business owners, but there is no way those places can minimize spread. 

I don’t live in fear over this virus. I wear my mask, and my face shield when interacting with patients. In my office area there is no way to socially distance. I work closely with people who examine positive patients regularly. To my knowledge, I haven’t gotten it. My kids have been in daycare/kindergarten full time since they opened back up. There haven’t been any cases. I think this success is due to masks. At work, most people have surgical masks, so that may be why masks seem to be quite effective, even with a whole team crammed in an elevator. 

We do avoid eating out, but will get carry out to support our local restaurants. You couldn’t pay me to go hang out in a bar though. No problems grocery shopping, or doing other normal things, but we don’t bring our kids to the store since this began. I’m more concerned about my parents getting this than me, but they’re taking precautions. We will all get this virus eventually. I’d just much rather get it later when we better know how to treat it (which we are already doing so much better treating compared to the beginning) and after being vaccinated (once we have appropriately studied ones, which is another whole can of worms). 

And Damfino and Tanya, I’m very sorry for your losses.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

Haha! You couldn't pay me to hang out in a bar BEFORE the virus! 
I grew up with 2 alcoholic parents and 3 of us 5 of their children were drunks. I understand alcoholism FAR TOO well and I chose to drink in moderation and not let it control me. But that is a conversation for another day......nothing about alcohol is essential.


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## Tanya

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> Haha! You couldn't pay me to hang out in a bar BEFORE the virus!
> I grew up with 2 alcoholic parents and 3 of us 5 of their children were drunks. I understand alcoholism FAR TOO well and I chose to drink in moderation and not let it control me. But that is a conversation for another day......nothing about alcohol is essential.


Exactly my point. My husband was a heavy drinker. Before lockdown I would watch him get intoxicated to the point of embarresment and beyond. Both my girls grew up with that. My brother and uncle are both alcoholics snd it is aweful. I am proud to say that drinking coffee and fruit juice is as far as I go. Its a very ugly thing that leads to very ugly endings.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm

MidnightRavenFarm said:


> I am waiting for my daughter to see a specialist to see if she has lupus. She has a lot of the symptoms and Initial labs kind of point in that direction. So I have decided to keep her home this semester just in case her immune system is compromised. We only leave the house to get groceries and feed and always wear mask and sanitize our hands after we go into every store. But I'm so paranoid it's not enough.


That is so hard. I am sorry about your daughter. I will pray for you guys. I hate that situation, of not feeling effective. My daughter has been a major clean freak all her life. When this all began, we were visiting thwm in SC and we went into Kroger. I wasn't wearing gloves and she grabbed my hands and used wipes on them. She said, "I can tell you have never been a germaphobe. Thank God you have me!"


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## MidnightRavenFarm

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> That is so hard. I am sorry about your daughter. I will pray for you guys. I hate that situation, of not feeling effective. My daughter has been a major clean freak all her life. When this all began, we were visiting thwm in SC and we went into Kroger. I wasn't wearing gloves and she grabbed my hands and used wipes on them. She said, "I can tell you have never been a germaphobe. Thank God you have me!"


Thank you.  initially they were considering leukemia but it wasn't that thank you god. I feel like we can handle anything that comes our way besides the big C word


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## Tanya

MidnightRavenFarm said:


> Thank you.  initially they were considering leukemia but it wasn't that thank you god. I feel like we can handle anything that comes our way besides the big C word


I really pray that it isnt anything serious at all


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## Moers kiko boars

Prayers sent to you @MidnightRavenFarm and your daughter. Once the lab results are back..please let us know how you both are doing. Some type of name on the situation makes it easier to work with. Take care.


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## MidnightRavenFarm

Moers kiko boars said:


> Prayers sent to you @MidnightRavenFarm and your daughter. Once the lab results are back..please let us know how you both are doing. Some type of name on the situation makes it easier to work with. Take care.


Thank you so much


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## luvmyherd

Well, I just came back from San Francisco. They were, I think, the first here to lock down. Virtually everyone we saw was wearing a mask. The hotel we stayed at took extra time cleaning the rooms and all wore masks and gloves.
I am not making a statement; just my observation.
San Francisco county has about 1/2 the total cases as my county where mask wearing and other precautions have gotten more and more lackluster. (?)
In spite of the smoke it was a great getaway. It was wonderful to see the ocean after nearly a year.


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.

It is scary hearing the President and first Lady have corona now, prayers for them.


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## Moers kiko boars

(pray) :uppray)(pray)(pray)


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## luvmyherd

This virus surely does not discriminate. As Tanya said when she was sick, "I would not wish this on my worst enemy." May the doctors do everything they can.


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## healthyishappy

If y'all haven't realized what a smoke screen this whole mess is yet then I worry about your mental health.


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## ksalvagno

healthyishappy said:


> If y'all haven't realized what a smoke screen this whole mess is yet then I worry about your mental health.


Keep it friendly, keep it fun. No personal attacks.


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## Iluvlilly!

healthyishappy said:


> If y'all haven't realized what a smoke screen this whole mess is yet then I worry about your mental health.


Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and nobody should judge other peoples opinions unless asked to.


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## Goats Rock

I hate that everytime I get a scratchy throat I feel like "is this IT?" Am I gonna die? Yeah, I know it sounds dumb, but I'm getting some age on me, and have hay allergies, which always cause me to get a dry throat when the barn is sort of closed up- I still have a panicky feeling! What if it is COVID19? The sore throat goes away after chores, but every day it's the same nonsense. 
DH has lung trouble, so I'm so careful not to get near him if I even sniffle. (I pretty much live in the barn or an old camper I have if I get a cold.) 

When will I learn? I'm tired of scary times!


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## Boers4ever

I'm with ya @Goats Rock. A few months ago I woke up with a sore throat. I actually thought I had Covid. It went away after a couple days though. 
This has been a rough year for my family. My Step-grandad was in the nursing home and he got it. He was in ICU for several weeks. He was 90. Well he got over it and went back into the nursing home and then caught it again. He didn't make it this time. My poor grandma hadn't seen him since February. I also lost 2 uncles. They did not have COVID though. And my mom's mother died in February. 
2020 is a rough year. Whew.


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## Moers kiko boars

Wow @Boers4ever ..I am so sorry for your losses. That's a rough year sending prayers of strength and comfort to you & yours!(pray)


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## Tanya

@Boers4ever I am so sorry for all the loss you have suffered.


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## MidnightRavenFarm

@Boers4ever I'm so sorry hun.


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## ksalvagno

Boers4ever, I'm so sorry for your losses.


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## Boers4ever

Thanks everyone. The prayers are much appreciated!


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## toth boer goats

Iluvlilly! said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and nobody should judge other peoples opinions unless asked to.


 You were already warned by one moderator to keep it friendly keep it fun. And now me after the 2nd comment.
Please do not be rude.

If by chance you were offended by my comment about the president and first lady.
I was just suggesting, no one is safe from the virus, if the president gets it. And I do not wish it upon an enemy or anyone, no matter who it is.

Prayers are needed for all who come down with it, no matter who they are.

If it wasn't my comment, which triggered your response, then I am sorry I was wrong.

Being mean is not the way to go here on TGS.


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## Iluvlilly!

toth boer goats said:


> You were already warned by one moderator to keep it friendly keep it fun. And now me after the 2nd comment.
> Please do not be rude.
> 
> If by chance you were offended by my comment about the president and first lady.
> I was just suggesting, no one is safe from the virus, if the president gets it. And I do not wish it upon an enemy or anyone, no matter who it is.
> 
> Prayers are needed for all who come down with it, no matter who they are.
> 
> If it wasn't my comment, which triggered your response, then I am sorry I was wrong.
> 
> Being mean is not the way to go here on TGS.


Uhh Karen warned somebody else, not me..... 
In no way was I trying to be rude I am so sorry if I did something wrong, I love TGS and I would never want to be rude to anybody........


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## toth boer goats

ops2::up:

I had been editing posts on this thread, was a lot of reading through, because of political reasons and things which will cause conflict.
According to the rules.

:bonk:Stupid me, I wasn't paying attention to who wrote it apparently, and now see you said nothing wrong there, my apologies.
:imsorrylease forgive me. :hug:


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## Iluvlilly!

:up:Hey no problem!! You are definitely forgiven And thanks for keeping this site safe and fun I know we all appreciate it so much:ty::squish:


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## Tanya

I was watching the international news this morning. I really hope President Trump has not been booked out too early. I could see how he was battling. Breathing becomes very difficult. Lets hope that the elections hasn't caused him distress unnecessarily 
And here on the home front Gizmo got onto my dinning room table and destroyed my lounge. So I think he has the Covid blues. He is more a house goat than Destiny.(doh)
I still battle to breath normally even though I have been medically cleared. If I get a wiff of the smell of amonia and sanitizer I lose my breath.
So that is how I am handling the virus.....


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## luvmyherd

I hope you are soon 100%. I am so very sorry you got this disease but the knowledge I have gained from you is beyond value.
It is impossible to know what is going on in the White House due to conflicting reports. But I fear a dreadful relapse could be in our future. He is getting care unequal to just about anyone on the planet; but getting him to follow doctors orders is another thing.


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## Tanya

This virus is a bane for the world. But we are a strong species. Yes those of us that survive its onslaught have to adjust to the actermath but remember this is what builds our immunity. I had swine flue last year bird flu the year before. I have survived cancer of the brain, the death of my husband and my beloved chi ken. But gere is the lining on my dark cloud. Both my girls are here with me. My Destiny survived a crippling attach. Gizmo gives me the giggles daily. I still bleed red blood and I still rescue animals. God is great.


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## momto6ls

Moers kiko boars said:


> Then please go volunteer at a hospital and help those that are in need. I'm sure the medical, hospital staff would appreciate your support.


(console)
I hate to put a damper on things... but they won't let you in the hospital unless you are sick. I'm pretty sure the hospital staff would_ appreciate_ your support, but they can't have it. The hospital policies won't allow it.

That's how stupid this whole thing is... the people making the rules are not the people who have a sliver of an idea about epidemiology. :shrug:

The more information, research, stats I read, the more angry I get. As a nurse, I was all about not overwhelming the medical community. We did a great job. Saved lives. But now we are losing more lives from the consequences of the shutdown that was supposed to last 2 weeks...7 months ago.

I was actually in traffic on the freeway that completely stopped... because someone jumped off the overpass into traffic.  I hope the insanity stops soon.


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## momto6ls

luvmyherd said:


> We need truth and facts; not entertainment!!
> As far as taking a stand goes; I really can't because I cannot find enough facts. And I don't want to spend hours researching. I just want to be told the truth. Or, if the truth is not really out there because they do not know enough yet; admit it.
> I have argued that people get sick and die. I get reamed out for that. Somehow/somewhere we have decided that we can beat (or improve) nature. History shows us that we can't. That being said I am not anti-science and medicine. I just feel we have to have a realistic balance.


I'll just share what I did to find facts. I went to the CDC website. (embarrassed) That took some doing because I don't _trust the CDC_. But I went to the area where they give info for medical professionals. They are more likely to tell them the truth. What I found was amazing! Even THEY want to decrease the quarantine time.

Here's the scoop. There were several research studies that showed in normal people after 10 days of infection the virus is not strong enough to replicate. That means they are no longer contagious even if they still have symptoms! People are most contagious 2 days BEFORE symptoms. My husband is on day 21. I have been sleeping next to him the whole time. I never got it. I DON'T HAVE TO BE IN QUARANTINE ANYMORE. :coolmoves:
My mother has cancer. My son has asthma. As a nurse I act by medical information, not by news cycles or ridiculous mandates from politicians.

information is out there. You just have to know where to look.


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## MellonFriend

Tanya said:


> This virus is a bane for the world. But we are a strong species. Yes those of us that survive its onslaught have to adjust to the actermath but remember this is what builds our immunity. I had swine flue last year bird flu the year before. I have survived cancer of the brain, the death of my husband and my beloved chi ken. But gere is the lining on my dark cloud. Both my girls are here with me. My Destiny survived a crippling attach. Gizmo gives me the giggles daily. I still bleed red blood and I still rescue animals. God is great.


I am in tears. What a beautiful thing to say.


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## Tanya

@MellonFriend it is the truth and I try stay positive. I hope it inspires every one else.


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## luvmyherd

Thank you momto6ls. I admitted I did not want to work that hard. I am glad you did. I just wish the information was available to everyone without all the *reality* TV drama.

We are finally heading to WA tomorrow after many setbacks. (Smoke, family drama/health etc.) We have not isolated for 2 weeks like we did before going to AR. But the circumstances are different and we will be staying in a separate house so we should be able to distance safely until we all feel comfortable. It will just feel so good to get away and the kids (even the surely 17yo) are looking forward to it.


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## Moers kiko boars

Please be safe and enjoy your travels! I bet the scenery as you drive is nice.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Tanya

@luvmyherd please travel safely. Be well. And enjoy the change


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## Boers4ever

Well everyone prayers for my family would be lovely right now. We were all tested and it came back positive. Cold like symptoms. We are quarantined for 14 days. I had a big show on Saturday too!


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## Moers kiko boars

Oh my. Please be safe. Sending prayers. (pray). Please keep us informed how.you are..and take care.


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## Tanya

Boers4ever said:


> Well everyone prayers for my family would be lovely right now. We were all tested and it came back positive. Cold like symptoms. We are quarantined for 14 days. I had a big show on Saturday too!


Praying for your whole family


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## Boers4ever

Thanks guys


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## toth boer goats

(pray):bighug:


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## ksalvagno

Prayers for your family.


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## luvmyherd

Thank you everyone. We could not bring the motor home as my daughter has no place to park it. Luckily she has a good friend just a couple of miles away who is not living in her house right now and was thrilled to have someone staying here. 
We had to use public restrooms but the rest stops were all cleaner than I have ever seen them before. The doors were propped open and the toilets self flushing so we could literally use them without touching anything. We carried our own food so we would not have to risk restaurants. 
With the kids all distance learning it is good that we have a place to go so we are not a distraction to their school work. We spend evenings there but still kind of keep our distance for now. I am pretty sure none of us are infected (they have been tested recently) and I am sure we will sigh and share space in a few days. It is just that they live in what was one of the first super hot spots so they have been practicing distancing with an abundance of caution for a really long time. I am sure they are more afraid of infecting us (the old people) than of us infecting them.

Boers4ever, I am so sorry and hope you are all among the majority with minor symptoms and a speedy recovery.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

boers4ever prayers! Hopefully yall are starting to feel better? 

Well, its official! Our school is making the online kids go back on November 3rd... A lot of the online kids either switched schools to one that is still online, or they went completely homeschool. I am going to try the in-person school thing but i can already tell it isnt going to last. I will probably end up switching schools within a week or so lol. When we watch the recordings the teachers give us, all of the kids are talking, yelling over the teacher, its ridiculous. And the teachers have gotten extremely lazy this year as well. 

Also, to me it is completely unfair that the teachers quit online because at the beginning of the year, they were given a choice: have the school hire someone and pay them to make the curriculum and help the online kids, or the teachers get a bonus and make their own curriculum and teach us. Now they are sending us back because the teachers say it is "too much work"... WHAT? Lol i know this sounds really snotty of me, but I would just tell the teachers what they tell the online kids when we need help with something: "suck it up and figure it out" (and yes, i was told that by a teacher because I had a question about a project) 
unless their bonus is being taken away, it doesnt seem right, and I'm sure the teachers knew what they were doing from the start.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

All I can say now, is please, wear your mask, wash your hands, social distance, and please, vote. At least the top 3. Please, for the sake of our country, economy, and our world.


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## Ranger1

I think as far as specifics about this virus, it hasn’t been around long enough for anyone to know much about it, so they should just give up trying and admit they don’t know how long the incubation period is, or if it transmits on surfaces, etc.


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## happybleats

In our area..mask wearing has lapsed some. But one thing I have seen are most the people in our area getting sick are mask wearers and those using hand sanitizer all the time. 
My husband feels mask wearing is becoming so common..and a big business..he feels we will be just like China..everyone wearing masks even when the threat is over. 
I hate that we are made to be afraid. I do not wear a mask. I won't wear one except to vote because I would not be allowed in other wise. I hold it on and remove it as soon as I'm out of there. Like many of you..im tired of all this imposed fear. Im ready for life to return to normal.


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## Damfino

> All I can say now, is please, wear your mask, wash your hands, social distance, and please, vote. At least the top 3. Please, for the sake of our country, economy, and our world.


I won't be social distancing. My husband and I are flying to Texas for my grandfather's funeral this week. Yes, _another_ person in my family died recently but once again not of COVID. I'll be staying there with my mom for a couple of weeks to help my granddad's widow who is getting her hip replaced on Nov. 4th. Then I'll be back home in time to host a big Thanksgiving as usual. Because right now, with all the deaths my family has experienced this year, we're just not going to stay isolated even if it is against the law. In Colorado we're not allowed to have gatherings of more than 10 people from 2 households any more--even in our own homes. I cannot and will not accept that.

I recently saw a sign in a shop window that said, "We isolate now so when we gather again no one will be missing." Well, my family is missing a lot of folks this year without help from the virus so if we "isolate now" it means accepting the fact that we'll never see them again this side of heaven. I'm not ok with that! Loneliness is worse than death. A friend of mine just lost her mother to loneliness in a nursing home. The virus didn't kill her--the quarantine did. My take: "We gather now so that when some go missing no one will be isolated."


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Question: I had a big long educational post, and its down to my last sentence. If someone deleted that post, then i expect the post that i confronted to be deleted too. It was pretty much just showing my opinion, and i quoted post from another members opinion.


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## Damfino

It's only because we mentioned politics. I debated the articles you posted because I thought they were inaccurate "fluff journalism" pieces so my post got shortened as well. The bottom line is, there is not and never has been a way to both contain the virus _and_ keep the economy intact. If there was a way, some nation would have discovered it by now. However, not one country has escaped this pandemic unscathed or even just slightly bruised. The good news is that treatments have come a long way since last spring.


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## happybleats

A personal friend and Dr was positive for covid some time early on. She and her first covid patient have done a small experiment. Each have done in 3 separate times so far, blood work to check their antibodies. Hers went from 9 to 90 to over 200(can't remember her exact number) antibodies are growing in number! Her first patient also had elevated antibodies. sure does give us pause. 

And Damfino..im with you. I am so over this mask wearing social distancing stuff.


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## Damfino

I would be willing to guess that a doctor's antibody count may go up for a long time after illness because their profession gives them constant exposure. The same cannot be said for everyone of course, so I would guess that for most people, if they are not regularly re-exposed, their antibody counts will eventually go down. This is normal and expected, but our bodies are designed to remember viruses to which we have been exposed and are able to launch an antibody response if exposed again. Even if reinfected, subsequent infections are usually much milder than the first--if they are symptomatic at all. I would not be surprised if many asymptomatic cases being discovered by current widespread testing are actually second infections happening in people who got sick last winter. There is no way to know this of course, but it's a plausible possibility. Some viruses do get worse with subsequent reinfections, but this is pretty rare and I don't believe it happens with any others in the family of coronaviruses except in isolated cases (there will always be outliers!).


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## Damfino

I would also like to say to Nigerian dwarf goat that when I referred to your posted articles as "inaccurate fluff journalism" I do not by any means see that as a reflection on you! It is almost impossible to find any media these days that is NOT fluff. Almost every article is packed to the gills with "facts" that are cherry picked to reflect the author's preconceived opinion. It's something we are all guilty of, but it seems to me that professional journalists should be held to a higher standard. I applaud you for taking an interest in politics and world news. I don't know how old you are, but I gather that you are still school age. We all have to learn how to read between the lines and watch out for buzzwords and catchphrases that seem informative but fall apart when critically analyzed. Sometimes I find it helpful to look for a scientific paper to shed light on any statistical numbers that have been presented, or I'll read an article from an opposing viewpoint to try to get a more complete picture. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle and never nearly as sensational as the headlines.


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## Boers4ever

Hello everyone! Quarantine for us is OVER yay!! Our symptoms never got really bad and I only ran fever for about an hour. It was the quarantine that nearly killed me! I mean I’m not the most social person, but I did miss my friends!


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## toth boer goats

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Question: I had a big long educational post, and its down to my last sentence. If someone deleted that post, then i expect the post that i confronted to be deleted too. It was pretty much just showing my opinion, and i quoted post from another members opinion.


 Damifino is correct in saying, expressing political views was deleted.

Politics can easily gets out of control, that is why we have rules on it.


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## Goats Rock

They recently opened the school for 4 days a week for in person learning. Closed on Wed for cleaning. One child was ill in 2nd grade. Turns out he had worn the same mask for weeks and was breathing in yuk from the mold etc on the mask! He is fine, but now the kids have to wear different colors to insure they are changing masks daily! 
If they wear paper ones, a small magic marker dot on them helps the teacher. Wow, this thing is never ending! 

Our biggest challenges back in grammar school were if the cute boy liked us or not or who was best friends with who on any given day!


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## Damfino

Boers4ever said:


> Hello everyone! Quarantine for us is OVER yay!! Our symptoms never got really bad and I only ran fever for about an hour. It was the quarantine that nearly killed me! I mean I'm not the most social person, but I did miss my friends!


Glad you're doing well. I missed that you were sick (I was AFK for a couple of weeks and didn't read back through everything I missed).

This article seems fairly on-topic. I'm glad someone is finally talking about the isolation problem! 
https://news.yahoo.com/hidden-covid-19-health-crisis-154512496.html


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## happybleats

Have you seen the rules for Thanksgiving in California?  I almost laughed out loud. So ridiculous. Sorry if that offends anyone. I am just so tired of it all. I can understand someone wanting to be cautious but this is just over the top.


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## Oliveoil

What are the rules?


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## happybleats

This was posted on FB. I should say I have not verified the source. I sure hope its a hoax, but if not....?


California's Rules For Your Thanksgiving Gathering

1. No more than 3 households, including your own. If you have 3 married kids, only two of them are allowed to come.
2. Make a list of all attendees and their contact information in case the government wants it.
3. May not be indoors.
4. Your guests may go inside briefly to use the bathroom as long as you sanitize it frequently.
5. Any shade structure must be open on at least 3 sides.
6. Your chairs must be at least 6' apart.
7. You must provide a hand washing or sanitizing station for your guests.
8. You should only use single serving food. (No turkey or bowls of mash potatoes or cranberry salad.)
9. If you must serve out of one dish, your guests may not help themselves.
10. The designated person who is allowed to serve you must wash or sanitize their hands frequently and wear a face covering.
11. Everyone must wear a face covering at all times, except briefly while you eat (but you must sit 6' apart while you eat), or if you need to use an inhaler or for other urgent medical needs.
12. Keep the gathering to 2 hours or less.
13. You should not sing or chant. Physical exertion is warned against.

You think I'm joking? Nope. This came directly from the California Department of Health website.


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## AndersonRanch

It’s true. And we can have 30 at a funeral so the joke is we all are having funerals for our pet turkeys lol


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## luvmyherd

Well, they are not mandates nor rules; they are guidelines. Yes, they sound extreme but are actually loosened.


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## healthyishappy

Iluvlilly! said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and nobody should judge other peoples opinions unless asked to.


Yes, but you aren't entitled to your own facts. And the facts say contrary to what the media says....
If anyone would like to debate me, the CDC itself posted on their site that a huge percentage of the claimed covid deaths were cause from different things. Look it up.


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## Moers kiko boars

Can you Name 1 good thing about Covid or its rules? Just for fun....
Mask = save $$$$$ on makeup & botox...
Hides your wrinkles(rofl)


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## Iluvlilly!

Moers kiko boars said:


> Can you Name 1 good thing about Covid or its rules? Just for fun....
> Mask = save $$$$$ on makeup & botox...
> Hides your wrinkles(rofl)


:heehee::clever:


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## cristina-sorina

Moers kiko boars said:


> Can you Name 1 good thing about Covid or its rules? Just for fun....
> Mask = save $$$$$ on makeup & botox...
> Hides your wrinkles(rofl)


I got to spend several months at home and enjoy my family. First time I've ever been off like that and without being on maternity leave. Loved the quality time we spent together as a family.

I agree on the makeup savings lol


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## Goats Rock

Good thing about the Covid- I don't have to make up excuses to avoid unwanted visitors to the goat barn. Social distancing, goats are sensitive to Covid, etc. (are they? The State says so!).

Why do people just assume that a working dairy is also a petting zoo? Rarely can I let anyone in to pet the goats. Too many biosecurity risks and disease risks in a normal year. This year is crazy!


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## Wcd

Goats Rock said:


> Good thing about the Covid- I don't have to make up excuses to avoid unwanted visitors to the goat barn. Social distancing, goats are sensitive to Covid, etc. (are they? The State says so!).
> 
> Why do people just assume that a working dairy is also a petting zoo? Rarely can I let anyone in to pet the goats. Too many biosecurity risks and disease risks in a normal year. This year is crazy!


Exactly!!! Why do people assume their wants desires are more important, than keeping your livestock safe? And if you tell people no they can not pet the big fluffy white dog, you are an *****.

occasionally we will let our gang up around the house, mainly when I need to clean out the barn, clear up downed trees. People will stop and want to pet them etc.

Because of my profession we are very cautious of people we do not know which goes for the livestock as well.


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## Sfgwife

AndersonRanch said:


> It's true. And we can have 30 at a funeral so the joke is we all are having funerals for our pet turkeys lol


You can have more for a protest...... hahahhaaha!

And. I am so on the fence about the norm big fifty people at our home for turkey day. :/. I think of my mama and our four month old grandson in this mess. It is SO hard. THEN! We already have bb turks in the freezer for sale and all 15 of the heritages we had fs are sold... those are still on the hoof yet. I SO pray those dang turks in my freezer sell!!! We have 75 meat gird that will need go in the freezer soon after turkey day. And i am stressin! I jave asked two friends that jave farm stands and failed turkey growin this year if they minded lettin their customers know that i have them for sale. They are wonderful freinds and said no prob. So hopefully word of mouth will send so e peoople my way.


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## cristina-sorina

Oh gosh, one more positive came to mind. So we've always homeschooled our kids. I cannot tell you the number of times pre-COVID I've had to explain what we do, why we do it, explain that my kids are, in fact, socialized....it was endless questions and many times you feel judged (not that it really bothered me, I knew we were doing the right thing for our family).

Ever since COVID I'm not the oddball anymore! Nobody bats an eye when you say you homeschool. Not only that but people actually are asking me for advice. It's almost like some facets of my life are currently existing in an alternate universe lol


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## cristina-sorina

Sfgwife said:


> You can have more for a protest...... hahahhaaha!
> 
> And. I am so on the fence about the norm big fifty people at our home for turkey day. :/. I think of my mama and our four month old grandson in this mess. It is SO hard. THEN! We already have bb turks in the freezer for sale and all 15 of the heritages we had fs are sold... those are still on the hoof yet. I SO pray those dang turks in my freezer sell!!! We have 75 meat gird that will need go in the freezer soon after turkey day. And i am stressin! I jave asked two friends that jave farm stands and failed turkey growin this year if they minded lettin their customers know that i have them for sale. They are wonderful freinds and said no prob. So hopefully word of mouth will send so e peoople my way.


I wish you were closer, I'd take some birds off your hands! Prayers for quick turkey sales and lots of freezer space!


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## Moers kiko boars

:up: ME 2...ever since reading her bird sale info...I've been hungry for Turkey!


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## healthyishappy

Moers kiko boars said:


> Can you Name 1 good thing about Covid or its rules? Just for fun....
> Mask = save $$$$$ on makeup & botox...
> Hides your wrinkles(rofl)


Oh ya. Theme parks are great right now since nobody goes.


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## luvmyherd

Moers kiko boars said:


> Can you Name 1 good thing about Covid or its rules? Just for fun....
> Mask = save $$$$$ on makeup & botox...
> Hides your wrinkles(rofl)


Oh yeah! I think about putting on makeup and laugh at myself. I don't even worry too much about my hair.
BIG PLUS..... When we bought wine the other day; the cashier was not sure we were 21!! We are more than half way through our 60's.(rofl)


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## Damfino

I've never understood why anyone wears makeup. Or hauls a ton of junk everywhere they go (I refer to purses). I'm saying this as a woman... women are WEIRD! 

Good things about COVID - Cheap plane tickets, cheap hotels, a down economy means cheap gas prices. In other words, travel is cheap right now!!


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## Damfino

So I came down to Texas for my grandfather's funeral that took place last Friday. My cousin is a total anti-masker and since he's also a lawyer and a fast talker he has all the arguments and can make anyone stand down. He's a very happy-go-lucky person with a beguiling and infectious smile and you know from the moment you meet him that you're absolutely NOT going to tell him what to do or ruin his day because he just doesn't care what anyone thinks. My aunt is a total mask freak and wears hers constantly and is irritated by anyone who doesn't wear a mask or who wears one improperly. Luckily both are pleasant to be around and are civil toward each other, but it was rather funny riding with both of them in the same car for an hour and a half all the way from Granbury to Dallas. Only a few barbs were exchanged, but I could feel my aunt's irritation at my cousin boiling just under her skin, and I could also feel the tension radiating from my cousin as he wrestled the puckish temptation to needle my aunt.


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## luvmyherd

>>>travel is cheap right now!!<<<
Yep! We came in way under budget on our trip to Arkansas.

We braved Costco yesterday. It was the first time we have done a *big box* store and it was really crowded. Everyone was masked and pretty polite and my first thought was, "If we can do this; why can't we go to Disneyland?!?"


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## toth boer goats

:nod::up:


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## Goats Rock

Our Sams club (40 miles away) is out of all the paper products again! Toilet paper, paper towels etc. Why? Seems silly as you cannot resell them. (at least Amazon has that decency to prevent over prices TP).


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## luvmyherd

Yep, there was no TP at Costco yesterday. Amazing how a few *Will there be another run on paper products?" headlines can be a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

We are having a real downside Covid moment. Our son-in-law has been in serious health since last December when he had a quadruple bypass. He balks at going to the hospital when he needs to because he has to go alone. She finally had to call an ambulance last night as his oxygen levels were so low. He is in intensive care right now and could very possibly die with no family allowed in. He is only 52.
We talked to our daughter this morning and are balancing between heading back to CA immediately or waiting for more information. He has so many close calls that there is no way we can always be there for her; but we try. She has two adult children and a 14yo to help support her but they are struggling too.


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## Moers kiko boars

Oh. I'm so sorry for your situation. Thay would be a tough situation. I hope he pulls through and starts doing better. Sending prayers(pray)


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## goathiker

Yeah, it's a bit more than that if you're in Seattle. 
The anarchist groups are not going to be easy to suppress. The anarchists don't vote, don't believe in government or God, and aren't backing down. 
The national guard is on standby 

We actually don't know the numbers of people that they are going to be able to round up but they plan to riot no matter who is elected. 
If you want out l would guess you're already too late if it gets bad. They plan to start early tomorrow trying to create autonomous neighborhoods. 

I'm so sorry about your son in law. I'm happy to hear that he was able to get into a hospital. 
Here in Oregon the hospitals are shut down and many medical people laid off. 
You can't even get an allergy shot.


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## GoofyGoat

@luvmyherd I'm so sorry that your son in law is in intensive care. When I had my accident in May I had to spend 15 days in the hospital and endure 2 surgeries and the hardest part was not being able to see family or the talk to anyone even hospital staff. They would come in for the shortest amount of time possible, covered in those paper scrubs, masked and gloved and barely talk to you...it was horrible and even though I tested negative for covid twice they acted like I had leprsey or something....I truely feel for him. Prayers sent to you and your family for a good outcome and his health improving quickly!


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## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry about your son in law. 

Stay safe everyone. I think we are going to be in for a bad ride.


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## happybleats

@luvmyherd im so sorry. How scary for your son in law and family. Imo if he's going to pass away..what is the harm your daughter being there with him? I think its so cruel to deny families being there. Im so so sorry. ((Hugs))


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.


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## luvmyherd

Thank you all. He is showing some improvement so we are hopeful. My daughter spent the day working so as not to curl up into a ball and cry.
So many of his problems this past year have been exacerbated by incompetent medical staff. So frustrating.
I can see no reason for a wife and kids not to be allowed to mask and gown for a visit.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Goats Rock

Nothing much anyone can say that will help, but sending good thoughts and prayers for your family and son in law.


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## Sfgwife

Right now i am O. V. E. R. the ronas!!! Our middle son lives in vermont. His wife is a nasty evil piece of work. Yes i know it is his decision to stay so no blasting me for my tirade please. We are truly hoping this is his last straw with her as ugly s that may sound. Even then it will open up another can of worms too boot. So there is no winning here except that if he left he would be getting out of a bad situation that can quickly ruin his life at this point. But right now i NEED to get to our son amd i cannot. There is no way my back will let me drive or ride 19 hours and then plane is out too because for any travel to and fro i must quarantine there and when coming back here. Plus i have my elderly mama and baby g to think of as well. Yes us too but those are the super important ones. But dangit all!


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## GoofyGoat

Sfgwife said:


> Right now i am O. V. E. R. the ronas!!! Our middle son lives in vermont. His wife is a nasty evil piece of work. Yes i know it is his decision to stay so no blasting me for my tirade please. We are truly hoping this is his last straw with her as ugly s that may sound. Even then it will open up another can of worms too boot. So there is no winning here except that if he left he would be getting out of a bad situation that can quickly ruin his life at this point. But right now i NEED to get to our son amd i cannot. There is no way my back will let me drive or ride 19 hours and by plane i must quarantine there and when coming back here. Plus i have my elderly mama and baby g to think of as well. Yes us too but those are the super important ones. But dangit all!


Oh geez! The wicked witch is at it again along with her evil momma no doubt. I'm so so sorry! I'll be praying for you, J, and the boys! I wish there was a easy solution. The only thing I can think of is a charter plane though that would cost a fortune. Whatever's going on, I hope it turns out ok.
Hang in there!


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## Goats Rock

Ohio is talking about locking everything down again. But, our county has only had 46 corona deaths total since this plague started.. (sorry for all the families, but they blame corona on a death even if the person had many other problems). I think by now everyone knows the social distancing thing, etc. 
Why are the powers that be grandstanding all the time? Shutting down everything only hurts everyone. I don't see it helping anything. I sincerely hope that any vaccine they come up with is safe and helps to reign in this daggone plague! I feel so badly for those businesses that went under and will go under if we are locked down again. 
(so glad I live away from towns and basically live in my barn, anyway!)


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## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> Ohio is talking about locking everything down again. But, our county has only had 46 corona deaths total since this plague started.. (sorry for all the families, but they blame corona on a death even if the person had many other problems). I think by now everyone knows the social distancing thing, etc.
> Why are the powers that be grandstanding all the time? Shutting down everything only hurts everyone. I don't see it helping anything. I sincerely hope that any vaccine they come up with is safe and helps to reign in this daggone plague! I feel so badly for those businesses that went under and will go under if we are locked down again.
> (so glad I live away from towns and basically live in my barn, anyway!)


Our nc gov is like this. I DO understand caution but goodness so so many people have lost their lives and businesses from it. My peeve with locking down again.... people will not do it because of how he has handled it so far and so many have lost from so much of it. People are afraid if he closes nc again he will not open it until this is all gone.... and i just do not see THAT happening for a very long time if ever.

And then there is this.... if big box stores can be open and considered safe why can small ones not be? Small businesses actually do better in the distancing things than the big box stores do simply by the low volume of people in them. People going to big box stores are crammed in like sardines lots of times while small businesses rarely have big crowds.

Then you have some schools open and most others closed but most schools are doing sports practices even if they are closed. That makes no sense to me at all.

We are in the disagreement for vaxxing for this period. It is a virus and so many people have been positive on tests gotten better then neg and then positive again for it. Tptb cannot guarantee the vaccine will work... some because of the speed of trials, then the getting this mess more than once and the testing was only a few months there can be no data on what it will do to people later on like years later. We just do not trust it and trust the testing process and time frame it has all been done in.


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## GoofyGoat

I’m not an anti vax’er but I’m a cautious one. I agree, anything fast tracked like this makes me very wary...remember phen-fen and other “miracle” drugs that were pushed through too quick...it wound up the cure was worse than the problem. To me, it’s going to be a wait and see before I’ll get it.


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## Moers kiko boars

Anymore..unless your a lawyer..you might want to wait about 10 years or so. That seems to be the TRUE trial tests. Its amazing to see so many drugs turn lethal on late night T.V. adds. :heehee:
You cant even buy a safe weed spray ..


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## luvmyherd

I can remember Hexachlorophene; an antibacterial that was used for acne, dandruff and extensively in newborn nurseries. Until they discovered it caused brain damage and death. It became prescription only and eventually was removed completely in most countries. 
I know I will wait first to see if a vaccine actually makes a difference and then weigh the risks against the benefits.

Right now we are comfortably in WA with my daughter's family. We have been here over two weeks so feel pretty safe. BUT... we need to go home. Right now we are asked to do a two week quarantine when we go home. We will need to grocery shop and my other daughter will have a fit if she cannot come over. (She has been through terrible stress and needs her mommy.) Seriously!

I will not pretend to know anything that I do not. I am as much in the dark as the next person. I do know that I will follow my gut and protect myself and the DH to the best of our ability. Casinos and bars may open but I find them non-essential in my life so do not care. I will not be attending large social gatherings and I will wear a mask when out to do essential business.
I wish everyone strength and health as we navigate this difficult time.


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## Tanya

South Africa is lifting completely on 15 December. Back to normal. Hopefully work will pick up by then.


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## luvmyherd

I heard the other day that all of Africa has had better results at handling this than other continents and countries. I hope you are all safe with your opening as we brace for more lock downs.


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## Tanya

@luvmyherd yeah. Our numbers are low compared to the european countries. We are also opening all our borders to the world as long as there is a health certificate attached from the embasy of origin. 
I only see that we gonna get a real bad second wave hitting us.
I must say, because TB is a predominant illness here, our hospitals could handle this well enough. 
I have just recovered from a second Rona infwction and I am certain I have built up some serious anti bodies.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707

Tanya said:


> South Africa is lifting completely on 15 December. Back to normal. Hopefully work will pick up by then.


Is the vaccine development going to reach south africa at the same rate as the US? Will you guys get it soon?


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## Moers kiko boars

Well Oklahoma is being hammered by Covid. Our numbers are high, and the hospitals are opening "special wards" due to the increase of patients. Our daily death toll is still announced. Its not slowing down here.


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## Tanya

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Is the vaccine development going to reach south africa at the same rate as the US? Will you guys get it soon?


You know. I wish I knew. We hear about a vaccine and its development but dont know how far it is or if it works. Here it is carry on slowly.


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## Sfgwife

Hahaha today on the news they were talking about the NC gov inauguration party thinger. How much do we want to bet that HE has a huge gathering of plenty more than 25 people outside and 10 inside..... if so.... how does he expect the people of nc to follow his dictatorship when he is breaking them. But i am sure it will be said that they were socially distant or some such bs. Last week or the week before he cut the acceptable gathering numbers back these numners again because of the rise in positive covid tests. It will be interesting what excuses he and his party come up with for not following his very own rules. Kinda like every day people are not allowed funerals and such but big time people can have as many as they want and half those unmasked.


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## GoofyGoat

Sfgwife said:


> Hahaha today on the news they were talking about the NC gov inauguration party thinger. How much do we want to bet that HE has a huge gathering of plenty more than 25 people outside and 10 inside..... if so.... how does he expect the people of nc to follow his dictatorship when he is breaking them. But i am sure it will be said that they were socially distant or some such bs. Last week or the week before he cut the acceptable gathering numbers back these numners again because of the rise in positive covid tests. It will be interesting what excuses he and his party come up with for not following his very own rules. Kinda like every day people are not allowed funerals and such but big time people can have as many as they want and half those unmasked.


They're all Hippocrates and liars..do you really expect them to follow the rules they set for us low life minions...Ha...do as I say and not as I do! Jerks!


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## Tanya

Its really sad that leaders change rules to suite themselves without think of the consequences to others


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## luvmyherd

It was just revealed that our governor attended a birthday party on the 6th. Not a good example to set. At least he admitted he was wrong.


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## Tanya

This is how I am handling the virus. With my Bambi. :heehee:


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## Moers kiko boars

Awwwww so preciouse. Yes I do my " SOCIAL DISTANCE" by staying about 25.miles from town...lol lol The goats, horse, dogs & me dont mind at all. In fact I kinda like it!:heehee:


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## HoosierShadow

Our Governor is shutting things back down little by little starting today. Apparently no dine in options so all bars/restaurants are carry out only, or maybe outside dinning? I honestly haven't read through the details, but we also don't do any kind of dine in, we always bring it home with the exception of eating at a nearby restaurant out on the picnic table last month.

I worked the horse race meet in Oct, and didn't hear of any issues. Although I do know one media person that had it prior to attending the end of the meet, and she had no symptoms so when she tested positive she was surprised and said nobody around her - roommates, etc. got it, so she still doesn't know where she got it.
Major horse racing 2 day event a couple of weeks ago, I worked 9 days straight, wasn't in close proximity with many people, but there were still a lot of people there and thousands for the actual races, and so far I've only heard of 1 employee positive. We had 22-23 people there on our team and so far so good. My daughter and I are getting our last post race test done in an hour.

I guess the toilet paper and paper towel craze is starting yet again. I went shopping Wed of last week and there was lots of toilet paper, big packs, small packs, large displays in the middle of the wide aisle with the big packs. I went this Wed? Barely anything on the shelves! Ugh. 
Funny thing is, go around the corner and napkins were completely stocked lol 
I have to go back either tomorrow morning or Sun morning to get a turkey. I don't have freezer space so it has to go in the bottom of the fridge.
We'll have some inlaws over for Thanksgiving, but we are around these same inlaws regularly - my son works with their sons, and the boys are always here or there. Otherwise it'll be a quiet Turkey day here at home, unless we're working on the new barn!

I may also be starting a job next week, part time at our grocery. Fingers crossed it works out and I don't bring the virus home that way, but really need the income.


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## luvmyherd

Well we are home. We made it with only stops for gas and to pee. We just ate one the road. Cold cuts, cheese, fruit, banana bread and lots of coffee. (It is a 15 hour drive.) We got our shopping done so we will hunker down and stay home as we see what unfolds around us. They are rationing TP again. I did not really need it but bought a pack (not 10) as we do not know how long it will last this time.


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## Tanya

Please stay safe. This thing is going to hang around for a while.


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## Goats Rock

Ohio has some curfew from 10 pm - 5 am. Since I do my chores mostly at night and at 2 different farms about a mile apart, I will be out after curfew! :ahh: OH NO! I may become public enemy #1 again. (like during the buck rag fiasco) Well, I certainly hope that the cops have more important things to do than arrest people for driving after 10 pm!


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## Tanya

Goats Rock said:


> Ohio has some curfew from 10 pm - 5 am. Since I do my chores mostly at night and at 2 different farms about a mile apart, I will be out after curfew! :ahh: OH NO! I may become public enemy #1 again. (like during the buck rag fiasco) Well, I certainly hope that the cops have more important things to do than arrest people for driving after 10 pm!


Take the dirt roads that they are not on. Or start at the furtherest farm.


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## Damfino

A couple of funny mask-related stories: 

The first one happened to my husband when he was flying back from my granddad's funeral. He was en route from Dallas to Denver when halfway through the flight, the head steward came and shook him out of his nap. 

"Sir! Sir! Your mask is not compliant!" 

Phil stirred groggily, not comprehending the problem. 

The steward managed to wake Phil up and once again told him his mask was not compliant. Phil said, "Ok." But it was unclear in what way his mask was not compliant or what he was supposed to do about it. 

Then the steward said, "Let me get you a compliant mask!" and bustled off. 

He returned a few minutes later and handed Phil a disposable paper mask--with one ear loop! Phil looked at it and said, "Uh... what am I supposed to do with this?" 

The steward was embarrassed and had to go back and get a different mask which Phil was happy to wear if it made the steward happy, but my husband was disappointed that the compliant mask didn't have goats on it like his homemade one.


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## Damfino

Second story...

A friend of mine is a radiographer in an urgent care center and they've been wearing their homemade (or purchased) cloth masks all year. Recently a memo went round the office saying that cloth masks weren't good enough--they need to be wearing disposable paper medical masks. So the office ordered a whole bunch of paper masks and soon the big boxes with Chinese lettering arrived at the office.

But there was one phrase written in English: *NOT MEDICAL GRADE*


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## Tanya

:funnytech::heehee::imok:


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## toth boer goats

Oh wow. :bonk:


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## Goats Rock

Amazing (said with utmost sarcasm) that all the Covid 19 "protective" masks are made in China! Where this darn thing is to have originated. Isn't that a bit like the fox guarding the hen house? 

Anyone else feel like the evil villain when you put on your mask, go into the grocery store and suddenly have to cough? Or worse, sneeze? (blush)


----------



## R.Williamson

Goats Rock said:


> Amazing (said with utmost sarcasm) that all the Covid 19 "protective" masks are made in China! Where this darn thing is to have originated. Isn't that a bit like the fox guarding the hen house?
> 
> Anyone else feel like the evil villain when you put on your mask, go into the grocery store and suddenly have to cough? Or worse, sneeze? (blush)


lol I am the evil villian for having it situated on my chin and not covering squat. I figure I am wearing a face mask ,technically on my face, and I can breathe. THen again, I am in SC and most are like "Whatever" about the whole thing. All these masks they are encouraging don't do squat really for dust particles so I imagine a virus will have no trouble going through.


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## Goats Rock

I saw a news clip about the masks, the person was from the UK- some University- I think. Anyway- she blowed (blew?) cigarette smoke through a variety of masks. Then said that the virus particles were way smaller than the smoke was. Most of the current face wear did pretty much next to nothing to keep the smoke in. The only good ones were the true N95 respirators worn by firemen and front line workers. 

Then she made another good comment- if there are evil Covid 19 particles hanging in the air and you keep handling the outside of the mask, you may contaminate your hands. She said treat the mask as if it were covered in poop! So, Basically- wearing any mask we can purchase may be more of a feel good measure and a reminder to cover your face when you cough, than a real Covid deterrent.. I guess.......


----------



## luvmyherd

Goats Rock said:


> Amazing (said with utmost sarcasm) that all the Covid 19 "protective" masks are made in China! Where this darn thing is to have originated. Isn't that a bit like the fox guarding the hen house?
> 
> Anyone else feel like the evil villain when you put on your mask, go into the grocery store and suddenly have to cough? Or worse, sneeze? (blush)


Happens to me all of the time. I have seasonal allergies!


----------



## Damfino

Goats Rock said:


> Then she made another good comment- if there are evil Covid 19 particles hanging in the air and you keep handling the outside of the mask, you may contaminate your hands. She said treat the mask as if it were covered in poop!


I can't seem to wrap my head around this concept. I constantly find myself wiping my nose on my mask (which never gets washed and I've been wearing it since May). I've dropped it on the ground several times and once on a bathroom floor. I regularly look down to find my mask wrapped around a shopping cart handle because it's in my hand and somewhere in the parking lot I'll grab a loose cart and forget to take the mask out of my hand first (I've always done the same thing with shopping lists too). I keep opening door handles with it because I forget it's still in my hand and not on my face. The other day I caught myself carrying it around in my mouth because my hands were full! I'm just too absent-minded and not nearly germophobic enough to safely wear a mask. I'm sure if I wore one all the time I'd form better habits, but since I only go out maybe once a week I can't seem to get a handle on it. I should probably put a strap on it so I can hang it around my neck when not in use, but I keep forgetting that too. Oh well. Hopefully, like a toddler licking banister rails, all this carelessness is bolstering up my immune system.


----------



## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> Ohio has some curfew from 10 pm - 5 am. Since I do my chores mostly at night and at 2 different farms about a mile apart, I will be out after curfew! :ahh: OH NO! I may become public enemy #1 again. (like during the buck rag fiasco) Well, I certainly hope that the cops have more important things to do than arrest people for driving after 10 pm!


Most time for curfews you do have a legit reason to be out amd police will not bother you after the initial why are you out past curfew. .


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## lottsagoats1

Well, up until last night I'd say things were fine. Nothing had changed for me, except having to wear a mask while shopping. I never lost work because my 2 off the farm jobs are considered essential ( Hospital Security and Animal Control Officer). However, last night I found out that I had been directly exposed to a person who had an active case of covid, a coworker. I followed him at all duty stations so we shared the same telephone, mouse, keyboard, desk and sometimes, radio mic. He is young and is severely sick. Then today, another coworker is out with it, again, really sick and we work together 2 nights a week, sharing the same equipment at various duty stations. A good % of the time wearing no masks because we were not in direct contact with patients or other staff and were behind a solid Plexiglas wall or in an office with a closed door. I have difficulty breathing when wearing a mask, so I only wear it when I am not in direct contact with patients or non-security staff.

I had planned on going out of state for T day with my family, but given that my mother is 87 (almost 88), my younger brother is 62 and my daughter in law works with cancer patients, I decided to cancel for their benefit.

So now I sit and wait for 2 weeks to see if covid 19 sets up housekeeping in my asthmatic lungs. I need to go shopping tomorrow and stock up on garlic. If I am not sick by T day, I may sign up for a partial shift to get the overtime. Or, maybe not. LOL


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## goathiker

Frontline doctors are prescribing the preventives and vitamins that they have had excellent success with. They are doing online appointments for any state.


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## Damfino

lottsagoats1 said:


> Well, up until last night I'd say things were fine. Nothing had changed for me, except having to wear a mask while shopping. I never lost work because my 2 off the farm jobs are considered essential ( Hospital Security and Animal Control Officer). However, last night I found out that I had been directly exposed to a person who had an active case of covid, a coworker. I followed him at all duty stations so we shared the same telephone, mouse, keyboard, desk and sometimes, radio mic. He is young and is severely sick. Then today, another coworker is out with it, again, really sick and we work together 2 nights a week, sharing the same equipment at various duty stations. A good % of the time wearing no masks because we were not in direct contact with patients or other staff and were behind a solid Plexiglas wall or in an office with a closed door. I have difficulty breathing when wearing a mask, so I only wear it when I am not in direct contact with patients or non-security staff.
> 
> I had planned on going out of state for T day with my family, but given that my mother is 87 (almost 88), my younger brother is 62 and my daughter in law works with cancer patients, I decided to cancel for their benefit.
> 
> So now I sit and wait for 2 weeks to see if covid 19 sets up housekeeping in my asthmatic lungs. I need to go shopping tomorrow and stock up on garlic. If I am not sick by T day, I may sign up for a partial shift to get the overtime. Or, maybe not. LOL


Good luck. Viral load is definitely an issue when working in close confines with other people.


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## luvmyherd

I am sorry lottsagoats. My son-in-law is a banker and has been exposed numerous times. Fortunately for him and the family; he has never tested positive. I wish the best for you.
Our Thanksgiving will be small and somewhat lonely. We will have 6-8 and it looks like fair enough weather to keep windows open or even use our new deck that got very little use this summer.
(I say lonely because we used to have 15-25!)


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## groovyoldlady

lottsagoats1 said:


> Well, up until last night I'd say things were fine. Nothing had changed for me, except having to wear a mask while shopping. I never lost work because my 2 off the farm jobs are considered essential ( Hospital Security and Animal Control Officer). However, last night I found out that I had been directly exposed to a person who had an active case of covid, a coworker. I followed him at all duty stations so we shared the same telephone, mouse, keyboard, desk and sometimes, radio mic. He is young and is severely sick. Then today, another coworker is out with it, again, really sick and we work together 2 nights a week, sharing the same equipment at various duty stations. A good % of the time wearing no masks because we were not in direct contact with patients or other staff and were behind a solid Plexiglas wall or in an office with a closed door. I have difficulty breathing when wearing a mask, so I only wear it when I am not in direct contact with patients or non-security staff.
> 
> I had planned on going out of state for T day with my family, but given that my mother is 87 (almost 88), my younger brother is 62 and my daughter in law works with cancer patients, I decided to cancel for their benefit.
> 
> So now I sit and wait for 2 weeks to see if covid 19 sets up housekeeping in my asthmatic lungs. I need to go shopping tomorrow and stock up on garlic. If I am not sick by T day, I may sign up for a partial shift to get the overtime. Or, maybe not. LOL


((((((Hugs)))))) Praying you don't get it and that if you do, it's a mild case.


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## happybleats

@lottsagoats1 ...zinc and vit c...prayers you stay well.


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## Goats Rock

Sending good thoughts and prayers that you are spared. We cancelled T day this year. Usually, we are worried about the old folks,etc. Guess what! We are the old folks! Boy, that hit me like a ton of bricks. DH is in his 70's and I am a decade plus younger. So, his bad lungs and my goats have decided, no family this year. 
That is ok, we are not near anyone but my son and his family, and they are ok with us not attending a dinner. Sure will be a strange holiday season this year.....


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Damfino

Vitamin D is beneficial as well. 

I'm looking at the huge number of cases going round right now, knowing they probably haven't detected 1/10th of them and I'm thinking this is perfect timing for the vaccine. Two-thirds of people infected is considered herd immunity. By my reckoning, we're fast approaching 1/3 of the US infected. That means we're about halfway to herd immunity, or will be by Christmas. By next spring we should have reached herd immunity--right in time for them to ship the vaccine. They'll roll it out just as cases are going down anyway, but they'll congratulate themselves for a job well done at getting the virus under control thanks to the new vaccine! 

The ones a vaccine is most likely to benefit are the few countries (and states like Hawaii) where cases never spiked to any significant degree. Without a vaccine, those folks will eventually experience a big wave just like everyone else (although I think in warmer climates it's less likely to be a problem). Anyway, I do think the timing is rather funny. 

I'm still very irritated by the narrative that says, "Just because you've been sick doesn't mean you're immune! You could catch it again!" Rand Paul got in hot water a week or two ago for claiming to be immune. Yet at the very same time the headlines are reading, "New vaccine is 94% effective!" For people to believe both of these things simultaneously makes me weep for the stupidity of humankind. If getting sick leaves you vulnerable, then the vaccine will be ineffective. If the vaccine is effective, then it means natural infection gives people solid, long-lasting antibodies. It's quite possible we'll end up in a gray area somewhere in the middle where infection and the vaccine both give so-so immunity because antibodies don't last, or the virus mutates too much and too quickly to offer long-term protection, but I get tired of the lie that natural infection leaves people vulnerable to reinfection but a man-made vaccine will produce strong, lasting antibodies.


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## ksalvagno

T cells are what remembers long term as your immunity. Antibodies are only around while you are sick. That is why antibodies are "disappearing" in 3-5 months. But test for antibodies, not T cells so we can keep people scared. 

Totally agree with you Damfino.


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## cristina-sorina

Damfino said:


> Vitamin D is beneficial as well.
> 
> I'm looking at the huge number of cases going round right now, knowing they probably haven't detected 1/10th of them and I'm thinking this is perfect timing for the vaccine. Two-thirds of people infected is considered herd immunity. By my reckoning, we're fast approaching 1/3 of the US infected. That means we're about halfway to herd immunity, or will be by Christmas. By next spring we should have reached herd immunity--right in time for them to ship the vaccine. They'll roll it out just as cases are going down anyway, but they'll congratulate themselves for a job well done at getting the virus under control thanks to the new vaccine!
> 
> The ones a vaccine is most likely to benefit are the few countries (and states like Hawaii) where cases never spiked to any significant degree. Without a vaccine, those folks will eventually experience a big wave just like everyone else (although I think in warmer climates it's less likely to be a problem). Anyway, I do think the timing is rather funny.
> 
> I'm still very irritated by the narrative that says, "Just because you've been sick doesn't mean you're immune! You could catch it again!" Rand Paul got in hot water a week or two ago for claiming to be immune. Yet at the very same time the headlines are reading, "New vaccine is 94% effective!" For people to believe both of these things simultaneously makes me weep for the stupidity of humankind. If getting sick leaves you vulnerable, then the vaccine will be ineffective. If the vaccine is effective, then it means natural infection gives people solid, long-lasting antibodies. It's quite possible we'll end up in a gray area somewhere in the middle where infection and the vaccine both give so-so immunity because antibodies don't last, or the virus mutates too much and too quickly to offer long-term protection, but I get tired of the lie that natural infection leaves people vulnerable to reinfection but a man-made vaccine will produce strong, lasting antibodies.


I've been saying this since they started spewing that nonsense! It's not possible to have NO immunity but have an effective vaccine! I'm SO glad to hear others have some common sense as well!!

Also ksalvagno, I agree!


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## Goats Rock

How come only goat people are the ones with common sense?


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes..some very deffinate cookies..especially with no education or actual work in medical. Amazing how really careless some people are. Stay safe...and be considerate of others...your lungs may be just fine..but the person next to you might not. 
Stay safe for Thanksgiving. Hopefully the vaccine will help some.


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## luvmyherd

I think that just living and working with the land and paying attention to our animals needs gives us an understanding that others don't have.
I have often been around highly educated people who think I am some sort of genius for simply talking common sense.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!


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## Tanya

To all. Happy Thanks Giving. SA doesnt celebrate it but I know it is an important holiday to you. I hope every one is safe and that every one is with a loved one.


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## Damfino

Ugh... I can't help but be rather upset about how all this is going down. I was in Texas in early November helping my grandfather's widow, Dominique, after her hip replacement. She was supposed to have that hip replaced back in April but because of Covid it was postponed. In April Dominique could still walk with a cane, but by the time she finally got the surgery in November she was confined to a wheelchair. This means her recovery has been much more difficult than it would have been had she had this "elective" surgery back when she was supposed to.

The thing that's making me angry now is that back in April Texas had very few cases of Covid, yet the entire country shut down in a panic because of what was happening in New York and other northeastern states. So although it was totally unnecessary to shut anything down in Texas, they did anyway. This is the downside to living in the age of information where problems occurring thousands of miles away feel like they are impacting every state equally at the same time. People ended up acting according to what was going on "over there" even if it wasn't appropriate for their own situation. 

So Dominique finally got her hip replaced six months too late and now Texas is finally experiencing the Covid surge that they locked down for last spring. Dominique and all of her caretakers and friends came down with Covid a week and a half ago. Some are recovering but Dominique is not. She's in a terrible state to get Covid. Muscle atrophy from the months she spent in a wheelchair have meant that she's been a lot less mobile than a person with a new hip replacement should be so she's quite susceptible to illness, and to pneumonia in particular.

Dominique went for a routine post-op exam on November 18th and tested positive for Flu A and B but not Covid. Then two days later she had a low blood pressure emergency and had to be rushed to the hospital. That time she also tested positive for Covid, so she's been battling all three viruses at once! That was nearly two weeks ago and she's finally starting to improve a little bit (I think), but the thing that makes me upset about all of this is that if she'd had the surgery back in April when she was supposed to, she would be in a much better position to battle Covid now. Texas had no reason to lock down last spring. Their hospitals and Covid wards were empty. Now that they're actually experiencing a surge that would justify eliminating elective procedures, they can't logistically do it. There's already such a backlog of people whose "elective" surgeries became necessary in the last six months that they won't be able to shut down again without causing a lot of extra deaths and harm.

Lockdowns were never a panacea that would stop the virus in its tracks and make everything safe if we just suffered through it for a few weeks. No! Lockdowns are an emergency measure to use if and when your specific situation requires it to keep hospitals from overcrowding and avoid depleting resources. Right now many hospitals in Texas are full so postponing certain medical procedures is probably a great idea for a short while, but since the state already played its lockdown card when there was no danger, the logistics of imposing one again have become complicated. People need to play their cards right instead of panicking and responding incorrectly based on what is happening somewhere else in the world. 

To be fair, some hospitals like the one where Dominique got her hip replaced are ONLY for orthopedic procedures so it never made sense to stop them from conducting surgeries at all. It's not like they were using up hospital resources that would otherwise be used for a Covid crisis. Instead they just laid off the doctors and nurses for many months until those non-emergency services could legally be resumed. So the state basically turned Dominique into a "high-risk" Covid patient when normally she would not have been. It's so messed up...


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## Damfino

Oh, and what the heck is up with everyone blaming "pandemic fatigue" for the current virus surge? It's not fatigue. It's colder weather, shorter days, and in my opinion, universal mask-wearing. We've been told over and over that we'll be safe if we all just wear a mask, but people are not wearing masks correctly _at all_. Probably 3/4 of the people out there are handling their masks _constantly_. And because they are wearing masks, they feel safe going out in public when they're sick, and they feel safe going to crowded places where they might not feel comfortable gathering if they hadn't been told that their mask will keep them safe. Just the other day I was told that one of our friends is in quarantine because of Covid, but the very next day I saw him waiting in line at the post office with his mask pulled up over his face. I'm sure he believes that as long as he and everyone is masked, it's fine for him to go out while infected. I know he's not the only person who feels that way. The over-emphasis on masks is backfiring by making sick people feel like they won't infect anyone, and making well people feel like they can't be infected.

More people are wearing masks now than they have been since the pandemic started, but infections are going wild. Just saw a headline this morning: "We need universal mask mandates to stop the virus!" Sorry, but you'll never "stop" the virus. It's here and it's going to stay here. Furthermore, what's the use of mandating something that's already universally practiced everywhere? I've hardly seen a stranger's face in the last two months. Basically ever since school started in September, people have been very, very good at masking up all the time in public. Making it a rule for everyone to do what they're already doing won't help! All this finger-wagging at the very few states that didn't impose a mandate are ridiculous. Private businesses already imposed mask mandates ages ago and that holds a lot more weight than government rules. No one cares what the government says about masks, but we all want to get into Walmart.

Something I noticed about my mask lately is that it's constantly WET! In summer it was only wet when I was inside buildings but it would dry out as soon as I was in the parking lot. Now it's wet all the time and it never dries out until the next day. I never thought about this before, but it must be because it's cold out now. It only used to stay wet inside air conditioned buildings but would dry out in the hot summer air as soon as I stepped outside so it would be dry by the time I got into the next store. Now that it's cold outside my mask no longer dries between uses. I wonder if perpetually wet masks might be contributing to viral transmission problems.


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## ksalvagno

I agree with you totally, Damfino. It is flu season. This is the time when viruses surge anyway. IF a lockdown would actually work, then it should have worked from the spring lockdown. But of course that isn't how viruses work. So here we are.


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## toth boer goats

:nod:


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## happybleats

yup. I too agree....this is getting out of hand


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## luvmyherd

I am sorry to hear about your grandfather's widow. I too had to postpone my hip replacement last year. Not because of Covid but other family priorities. Luckily I had not gotten that bad and with physical therapy and exercise before and after; I recovered well and quickly. But I did not understand why my post op physical therapy had to be over the phone. The part of the building where I had PT was well away from the rest of the clinics with a separate entrance. I feel there was very little chance of infection at that time.
My husband needs to see his doctor for a physical and some medication follow up. Needless to say, when he got them on the phone he was told they are *way behind*. Again, his clinic is not part of a hospital and there was really no reason to shut it down at all. A few general precautions and I think most people would have been fine seeing their doctors this past 9 months.
I understand your frustration.


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## cristina-sorina

I agree with you @Damfino, it's sad, to say the least.

I work in surgery at a community hospital, we do many, many elective procedures, they're what keeps the hospital financially healthy. We were especially hit hard in March, April and May when Ohio stopped all elective surgeries. They did it at the time to conserve PPE (we do use ALOT of PPE in surgery from Sugical gowns, multiple sterile and non sterile gloves, eye protection etc). Now, however, the PPE situation is just fine, we've caught up to the demand. Now the fear is that COVID patients will take up a large portion of hospital beds, this is a problem if the elective surgical patients need an overnight stay, or they develop an unexpected complication requiring a regular bed or an ICU bed. So far thank God we've been okay on the COVID front, we've had patients requiring hospitalization but not enough to stretch the capacity of the hospital to the maximum.

Its so sad that we've seen people's cancers have advanced to worse stages, more people have become immobile like Dominique, not to mention people delaying their care despite hospitals and ORs being open. People are cancelling surgery from the sheer terror they've been fed by the news since March. It's hard to even sum up in words the frustration everyone feels the entire situation.


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## Tanya

So last night president Ramaphosa had what we call a televised meeting with his South African family. We are back in a bit of a tighter lock down. Christmas and new year midnight celebrations are now cancelled. Only allowed to party till 10 pm so we can all be home by 11 pm. 
Alcohol can only be sold monday to thursday 9 am to 4 pm. 
Masks are compulsory.
Only 250 people allowed to gather outside and 100 inside. Beaches are closed from today to 7 January 2021.
Apparently we are now in our second wave. Ugh. Flu is flu. Its gonna clean off the planet and us humans will always defy mother nature.


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## Goats Rock

Ohio is still having some stupid curfew from 10pm-5am. Everyone is ignoring it. "They" have cried "Wolf" too many times. And, they may fine people, but heck, the jails don't want new people, too afraid of wiping out all the inmates, so pretty much anything but murder is getting probation! (oh, dui gets you jail time, but drugs and OD's do not) 

What a strange time we live in! I'll just keep to my social isolation with my goats!


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## Damfino

I called Dominique yesterday and she sounds much, much stronger this week and her cough is a lot better, although it recently developed into bronchitis so it may hang on for a while. Still, bronchitis is a much, much better development than pneumonia even if it can be more persistent. She's also able to get herself up and about now and is walking more each day. She uses her walker but the wheelchair is gone now (yay!). All of Dominique's caretakers and several of her friends and our other relatives (aunt, uncle, cousins) were down with Covid for a while but they are all doing much better or are recovered. My aunt is the one having the most lingering symptoms I think, but she's also doing better than she was. 

Bad news yesterday though. My husband's Uncle Steve had to be rushed to the hospital in an ambulance yesterday morning. He'd been a little "off" all week before he crashed. It turns out he has Covid, and since he's been battling a bunch of other nasty health problems for the last year or more he's definitely a high risk case. They got him on convalescent plasma today I believe, so that should hopefully help. His wife, Marianne, tested positive but is currently asymptomatic. We were hoping they could dodge the Covid bullet because of their age and Steve's health problems. I know they've been super careful (probably more than most people--Marianne is a retired nurse so she knows how to do everything "right"), but it's hard to completely insulate yourself from any kind of pandemic. 

I was at a game night last night and out of ten ladies there, four of them have had Covid. Hopefully this is a good sign that we're nearing saturation around here and the virus will have to start slowing down as there are fewer people it can infect. I also hope the vaccine is as good as they're saying it is. I don't plan to get it myself. I'd like to see it tried out for a few years first because I'm just not the altruistic "guinea pig" type. However, I hope it proves safe and effective. If the vaccine is effective then it means that natural immunity should also be effective and between both of those ways of obtaining immunity, the human population should be in a much better place next year.


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## ksalvagno

Great to hear about Dominique. Hopefully she will keep progressing. I hope your uncle and aunt will also be fine.


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## Tanya

The Spanish flu took allot of people back then too. Just like now. Lets hope that as always we bounce back.
I really pray that every one that has this illness comes through it to fight another day. It sure is hell.


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## Tanya

Oh boy. Nurse Sandra Lindsey. That is one hell of a long needle. I have a huge fear of needles. I think I will pass on the vaccine. Thanks


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## goathiker

Yeah, nobody is going to inject MRC-5 into my body without me giving them bruises.


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## Moers kiko boars

Why would you allow a non tested vaccine into your system? With most drugs of any type they are tested at least a year. Prior to human trials. I just wonder if a large group of lawyers will be getting alot of business if this vaccine causes multiple side effects.


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## toth boer goats

I am not getting
The shot either. 
Same with my goats, if it is too new without any time which goes by to see the results and any issues it may bring, I will not do it.


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## goathiker

Moers kiko boars said:


> I just wonder if a large group of lawyers will be getting alot of business if this vaccine causes multiple side effects.


No, Obama set it up so that vaccine companies are liability free and they can't be held responsible for vaccine injuries of any kind.


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## Damfino

Obama didn't do that. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program did that in the 1980's to combat the rise in lawsuits over vaccines that were happening in the 1970's. Lawsuits (many of them frivolous) were making vaccines too costly and this was deemed a danger to public health, so Congress passed the NVICP so that people who are injured by vaccines qualify for a no-fault compensatory payout from the government. Obama made it easier for people to access government compensation for shoulder injuries caused by incorrectly administered vaccines. As a result, the number of shoulder injury claims jumped tremendously in the following years. The Trump administration has sought to tighten the regulations back up in order to discourage bogus claims. 

As far as I know, the Trump administration has specifically shielded COVID-19 vaccination manufacturers from liability with an extra layer of protection beyond what was provided by the NVICP. It's easy to get political, but in the case of vaccines, liability protection has been upheld by both parties going back decades. 

I'm on the fence on this one. On the one hand, insulating manufacturers from lawsuits caused by their products only encourages sloppiness. On the other hand, we live in a lawsuit-happy culture where people happily fabricate injury and illness in order to get big payouts, and this harms everyone to whom the company must pass on their legal costs. Vaccines are a collective good even if they sometimes injure a small number of people. Allowing these few individuals to extract exorbitant amounts of money for legitimate injury can cause harm to the rest who don't have bad reactions, so I can see why Congress set up a fund for limited "no fault" payouts. It's not an easy problem to solve.


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## goathiker

I understood that Obama reuped it, no worries I've studied so much the last several months that things are getting mixed up lol.
Regardless, Robert Kennedy jr. has done a lot of work on the vaccine injuries and has won some good points in his cases. 

The CDC has quietly put HCQ back in as an early cure, so therapeutics are finally being looked at.


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## AndersonRanch

Yeah they are already working on keith to take the vaccine. He asked me what I thought and I said your choice but no way in heck would I do it! He was concerned with being around so many people, but I pointed out that it’s winter, he doesn’t go on medical aids any more and during the winter he has a lot of projects lines up where it’s mechanics and putting fire lines in. He’s really not around a lot of people. Give it the 6 months and see what happens with the vaccine by then, and then think it over. 
I’m not getting it though. I’m sure at some point it’s going to be mandatory for kids to go to school. I have no idea what I will do then. I have a feeling I will have 2 kids in homeschool if that happens which will definitely hinder my son and his education:/


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## NDinKY

I want the vaccine so bad. Gimmie Pfizer’s in one arm, and Moderna’s in the other! I’ve seen too many formerly healthy middle age people have severe covid/die. 

I’m hopefully going to be eligible for the Moderna vaccine next week. The risk from the vaccine is far less than the risk of sequelae from contracting covid. 

Now I will probably hold off on vaccinating my kids until there is more data available in pediatrics as the kids seem to overall do well if they get covid. My husband and I, my parents, and all adult family members are wanting it.


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## happybleats

There is no way my family or I will take the vaccine. My sister and brother in law both had covid and while for my sister it was rough..both came through..my daughter who is a police officer has covid right now. She said 4 day was rough but shes better now. I think we all will know more and more people who had covid and soon this craziness will be over.


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## toth boer goats

No politics please guys.


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## Tanya

Ugh. My sister has been diagnosed with the virus today. So guess who is getting tested again..... aaaagggghhhhh


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## Damfino

Uncle Steve is out of the hospital and back home. We're sure happy about that!


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## Tanya

@Damfino so glad to hear


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## toth boer goats

Sorry to hear that Tanya stay safe.


Good to hear Damfino.


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## Tanya

@toth boer goats and if I get tested again it will be the third time. If I am positive I am going to put up my tent in the middle of no where and live wild. I feel for my sister. She has a compromised imune system. I pray she can hold off on being hospitilized.
Damfino, are you guys going to be together for Christmas?


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## Tanya

Ah and now on our news channel is saying thay South Africa has a new variance of the virus. Spreads faster and hits harder.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> @toth boer goats and if I get tested again it will be the third time. If I am positive I am going to put up my tent in the middle of no where and live wild. I feel for my sister. She has a compromised imune system. I pray she can hold off on being hospitilized.
> Damfino, are you guys going to be together for Christmas?


I hope your sister does ok.

Phil and I rarely go anywhere or have anyone over for Christmas unless it's just a meal with local friends. We've always preferred to keep Christmas low key and make a big deal of the other holidays instead, although my in-laws did stay with us over Christmas two years ago. Unfortunately I got wretchedly sick that year with a very nasty cold, was coughing up a lung and lost my voice completely so I didn't have much fun that year. Thankfully no one else caught it!


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## Moers kiko boars

Oh @Tanya I do hope you DO NOT have it. Im sorry about your Sister. So far 10 of my family have tested + for covid. So Christmas is way up in the air. Just have to wait & see.


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## Goats Rock

Its sure a tough decision.


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## Tanya

We are waiting for my test results. But I know it will be positive. I am hoping that every one else is ok.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Damfino

As much as I might agree (and also disagree on some points), I'm pretty sure this video is _definitely_ not allowed. It's purely political.


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## Damfino

I'm irritated that the Chamber canceled the local Christmas parade last week. Our town doesn't do Christmas parades, but this year the Chamber of Commerce decided sometime around Thanksgiving that we should do one because so many other parades and events have been canceled. I was so excited! They decided it would be perfectly fine to do a parade as long as everyone watched from their cars. I thought it was a wonderful idea and we were all set to go out with our goat carriage decked out in lights, and me in my elf suit and my husband dressed up as Santa. But then a week before the event the Chamber called it off. Apparently some higher-ups decided that they were too afraid of media backlash in case anyone got out of their cars to visit during the parade. They were just sure that someone would take a picture and post it on Facebook and maybe send it to the health department and accuse the Chamber of hosting a "super spreader" event while Pueblo County is under red level restrictions.

Honestly! Some of this stuff has gotten so mind-numbingly ridiculous it's hard to even know how to respond. The event would be outside so even if a few people did get out of their cars, it's not like they're hanging around in a crowded indoor space like, say, a grocery store or Walmart--which are still totally acceptable places for lots of people to congregate of course. The health department would not have cared. The only people who might have complained would be a few sourpusses on Facebook, and as far as I'm concerned the Chamber shouldn't be concerned about busybodies on the internet. If everyone would just mind their own business and quit trying to micromanage everyone else, the world would be a much happier place! There's no way an outdoor Christmas parade was ever going to make anybody sick. It's sad to me that so many people are afraid of what others may think or say.

I'm glad our saddle club took the "shove it!" approach last summer. When everyone else was canceling horse shows, gymkhanas, team sorting events, etc., our club was adding events right and left. We decided we didn't care if anyone complained, and if the health department showed up we were going to inform them that this was a political protest and that furthermore it was on private property. Thankfully no one showed up to bother us, and no one even complained on Facebook. Sometimes I think we spend way too much time worrying about what other people think only to discover that they aren't thinking about us at all. I doubt the Chamber would have gotten any complaints about the parade, but they backed down from the fear that someone _could_ compain and to me that's just kind of sad.


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## Goats Rock

The county seat in our county (small county seat) got around the parade problem as the State and local health departments said, "NO PARADES DUE TO (what else) COVID 19"! So, they had a procession. Those cannot be stopped, Constitutional rights,etc! So now, every town is having "Processions"! 

Now the Health Dept. is crying foul and wants the organizers fined, plus anyone that participated. The different fire departments, Sheriff Dept., etc. were all part of that "procession", even a few local beauty queens and county fair princesses, etc. were in the "procession" as well as a judge in a car thanking the voters for electing him! 
I guess I just find it pretty comical. The little local dictators are so mad they were flummoxed!


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes Our Christmas parade was done in reverse. The parade participants were on the side of the street. 1 lane was open for people to drive through. The police made sure the cars kept moveing. They didnt care if you stopped for a picture..but you couldnt get out. I thought it was a great idea! All the parade participants stayed 6 ft apart. It went well. No wrecks...lol
To me...Facebook is a way for immature individuals to be rude, condescending, and lie without anyone to seeing them. Like Cowards. Sorry..but I dont do cowards. I dont do Facebook. 
Yes..its hard to keep everyone happy in a serious situation with false information and stupidity abounds. So the rules are only there for protection...if thet are not followed..then dont complain about the consequences. Some are more mature and can help others. The others are on Facebook. I honestly believe...if something else would work...they would try it. Look at this crazy idea for a new vaccine. ?? ??


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## luvmyherd

I have seen a lot of ads for *reverse* parades in our area. Seems to be going well and definitely helping with the stress and depression so many of us are dealing with.
I saw a story that made me cry. A family decorated their porch and has places for Santa pictures. The people sit outside and Mr. and Mrs. Clause are inside behind a plate glass window. Such thoughtfulness!
Things have not changed much except I got a summons for jury duty! I hope being 67 is enough to get excused. If I can't shop; I am not exposing myself to downtown!!!


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## Tanya

@luvmyherd that is such a beautiful thought. People are getting creative.

Well for the first time this year I tested negative for the virus that shall not be named. I have been tested for anti bodies. I have a full load.


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## goathiker

Research Topics (please)

Animal studies on SARS vaccines aka covid (this isn't new)

Faust's report on mask use during the swine flu outbreak. 

The result of Bill Gates polio vaccine program in Africa. (true results)

What RNA vaccines actually are. 

Patents for coronavirus and luciferian. 

Old studies on adrenolutin. The old books are very good. 

Use duck duck go, G00gle is heavily censored, bing a bit less so.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> @luvmyherd that is such a beautiful thought. People are getting creative.
> 
> Well for the first time this year I tested negative for the virus that shall not be named. I have been tested for anti bodies. I have a full load.


If you'd tested positive it would be a sign that either the tests are extremely faulty, or your immune system is severely compromised, or the vaccine they're touting as 95% effective is actually a giant dud. I'm glad you're negative. I had a feeling you would be.


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## Tanya

@Damfino you dont know how exited I am. Going through this thing twice was aweful. And now my sister has it. The doc wants me to donate blood so that they can harvest the antibodies. I hate needles and Ibam so fobic of blood clinics. And having a rare blood group makes it even more daunting for me. 
To every one else out there be careful and stay safe. Its getting ugly


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## Damfino

It would be great if you could help out your sister with antibodies. Of course, if your blood types are different it might be a no-go. My Uncle Steve was out of the hospital one day after getting convalescent plasma, and so was friend's brother who got it this past summer. In fact, the friend's brother was the first in our county to receive convalescent plasma and he improved immediately and was able to leave the hospital next day. They've been using this therapy effectively for about 100 years now. 

I was rather excited to recently read about Katalin Karikó, a woman from Hungary who moved to the U.S. in the 1980's and has been working on mRNA vaccines since then. I enjoy reading about successful women in STEM fields because they are very underrepresented, and so often it's the men who get the praise even if the women did all the work. It would be neat if these types of vaccines could be proven effective and safe. I will wait a good many years before I'm brave enough to try one myself, but I'm not going to poo-poo it just on principle. I'm not against vaccinations in general, nor am I against breakthroughs in medical science. However, until I'm old enough (and/or fat enough) to be in a "high risk" category for Covid, the vaccine seems both unnecessary and a little too experimental for my tastes. Also, I'm reasonably certain (given the apparent effectiveness of the vaccine) that natural immunity is also excellent protection.


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## Tanya

@Damfino I am A+ and my sister is AB. So is my brother. I asked if I can help her this way and they actually dont know. So I approached my oncologist to see ifvthey can find out. My sister matched Chevani when she needed a marrow transplant. Maybe Vani also has anti bodies she can share with my sister. 
Believe me, I will do anything for my kids and my sister.


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## luvmyherd

My daughter and I do an annual Christmas shopping trip. This year we had a plan just before our latest lock down. We were going to go early before the stores got crowded and then have lunch at someplace with outdoor seating.
We almost cancelled altogether but decide to go this AM really early. All we did was Walmart and there were almost no people. Then we drove through the Downtown area to see decorations and got ElPollo Loco at the drive-through. Not as much fun as usual but I felt pretty safe.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> @Damfino I am A+ and my sister is AB. So is my brother. I asked if I can help her this way and they actually dont know. So I approached my oncologist to see ifvthey can find out. My sister matched Chevani when she needed a marrow transplant. Maybe Vani also has anti bodies she can share with my sister.
> Believe me, I will do anything for my kids and my sister.


If I remember my high school biology correctly, I believe your sister is a universal receiver, meaning she can take blood from any other blood type. Type O is the universal donor and type AB is the universal receiver.


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## Tanya

@Damfino that is correct. Only God will make me understand Genetics one day. But all I pray for now is that somewhere in this my sister gets something that can keep her safe. I got the message from her fiance that she was admitted this morning.


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## Tanya

Ok. So we are sitting with 1400 new virus cases a day being reported uncle Ramaphosa wants to talk to us again tonight. So here I am hoping we dont go back to level 3 lockdown again. It will kill what is left of our economy. And with the virus that shall not be named mutating what chance do we all have to NOT contract this thing?
Just an extra update note, my sister has been sent home with two inhalors and an oxygen tank. Also 2 antibiotics and basic flu medication.


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## Moers kiko boars

Oh @Tanya ..I hope your own resistance has built up and your chance of catching the mutated virus is less. Some viruses work that way. 
And your Sister, I hope she recovers completely. Sending you prayers.


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## Tanya

Thank you @Moers kiko boars . She is a fighter. She keeps fighting with me....
Well. I sure hope so too. The new strain seems faster and deadlier. But I know I must be resistant by now.... after 2 battles with the giant I am still standing.
I kniw this sounds really stupid but I found wating allot of fresh frit and veggies worked wonders.


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## Tanya

And level 3 here we come. 9pm curfew. For nect 24 days. No public gatherings except funerals. Compulsory masks to be worn or face jail time. Restuarants are not allowed to sell alcohol. Alcohol not for sale any longer. Only businesses allowed to stay open.... 
At least we dont need hall passes any more.


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## toth boer goats

Wow


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## Goats Rock

I keep wondering what the alcohol deal is all about. Why are they cancelling booze? They tried that around her and the drunks almost had a rebellion. (not permitting the liquor store to be open). I don't care one way or another- was just curious.....


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## Tanya

Our health care is predominantly dominated by alcohol related violence and MVA due to inebriation. With no alcohol the strain that is already on the system lessens and there are beds for really sick patients. We have limited medical facilities and beds. If you dont have a medical aid you are forced to government hospitals. At best the govt hospitals cannot even cope under normal circumstances. We also have health care practitioners who actually do not care. They will let a baby die because the mother screamed too loudly during child birth. Or they will let a heart attach victim die in a hall way because they are on tea or lunch break. 
Those that do care enough get ostracized and worked out by the majority due to fear of being made to look bad.
So cutting the sale of alcohol opens much needed beds and equipment.


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## Damfino

Cutting alcohol is also supposed to cut down on risky alcohol-related behavior such as partying and otherwise fraternizing too closely with strangers in crowded spaces, not observing hygiene, not wearing a mask, etc. 

Best wishes for your sister, Tanya! 

My friends and relatives who were down with COVID are either recovered or at least over the hump, although I still worry about Uncle Steve because he was in no fit state to tackle any virus, let alone a novel one. He's still home, but I can see him having a turn for the worse any time due to his other conditions. The one good thing about all the problems he had last year is that he lost a lot of weight (too much really). He was never into the obese category, but any extra weight sure seems to add complications with COVID so we're grateful he wasn't carrying surplus pounds when it hit him.


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## Tanya

@Damfino you are right. We call it super spreader situations.
I really hope your uncle Makes it over the hump too.


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## cristina-sorina

I cannot believe that alcoholics going into DT'S aren't a concern for the healthcare system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning drinking, but It's the only addiction that can actually kill you if you don't get a drink within 2-3 days.


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## Tanya

@cristina-sorina I agree. But to be honest. There are far less of those types of casualties right now. Alcoholism is self inflicted. But it is a debate for another day


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## NDinKY

I got the Moderna vaccine today, have never been so excited to get a shot before. So far no side effects except a little soreness like the flu vaccine. Tomorrow might be a different story though. 

DTs are definitely a concern and why liquor stores were considered essential here. However if accidents and fights due to alcohol are the greater burden on healthcare, then I guess it makes sense to close those establishments.


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## goathiker

Cool, um did you read the insert?

Any young person who intends to take this shot should definitely talk with a qualified doctor, especially if they plan to have children.


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## NDinKY

goathiker said:


> Cool, um did you read the insert?
> 
> Any young person who intends to take this shot should definitely talk with a qualified doctor, especially if they plan to have children.


Sure did. Since this is not an FDA approved vaccine and is only available through EUA, they had to provide informed consent for everyone getting it. They also had a monitoring station (complete with crash cart) set up for afterwards.

I've treated too many patients with severe consequences of Covid (the number of pulmonary embolisms and strokes are astounding, to the point where we are prophylactically anticoagulating anyone with risk factors) that for me personally, the benefit of the vaccine greatly outweighs the risks.


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## Tanya

Covid Medical kit Required at home:

1. Paracetamol
2. Betadine for mouthwash and gargle
3. Vitamin C and D3 
5. B complex 
6. Vapour+ capsules for steam
7. Oximeter 
8. Oxygen cylinder (for emergency only)
9.Breathing Exercises

Covid Three stages:

1. Covid only in nose - recovery time is half a day. (Steam inhaling), vitamin C. Usually no fever. Asymptomatic.

2. Covid in throat - sore throat, recovery time 1 day (hot water gargle, warm water to drink, if temp then paracetamol. Vitamin C, Bcomplex. If severe than antibiotic.

3. Covid in lungs- coughing and breathlessness 4 to 5 days. (Vitamin C, B complex, hot water gargle, oximeter, paracetamol, cylinder if severe, lot of liquid required, deep breathing exercise.

Stage when to approach hospital:
Monitor the oxygen level. If it goes near 43 (normal 98-100) then you need oxygen cylinder. If available at home, then no hospital else admit.

*Stay healthy, Stay Safe!*
Please fwd to your contacts.
You never know who it may help. 
Tata Group has started good initiative, they are providing free doctors consultation online through chats. This facility is started for you so that you need not to go out for doctors and you will be safe at home.

Below is the link, I request everyone to take benefit of this facility.
https://www.tatahealth.com/online-doctor-consultation/general-physician. Advice from inside isolation hospitals, we can do at home
Medicines that are taken in isolation hospitals
1. Vitamin C-1000
2. Vitamin E (E)
3. From (10 to 11) hours, sitting in the sunshine for 15-20 minutes.
4. Egg meal once ..
5. We take a rest / sleep a minimum of 7-8 hours
6. We drink 1.5 liters of water daily
7. All meals should be warm (not cold).
And that's all we do in the hospital to strengthen the immune system

Note that the pH of coronavirus varies from 5.5 to 8.5

Therefore, all we have to do to eliminate the virus is to consume more alkaline foods above the acidity level of the virus.
Such as :
Bananas 
Green lemon - 9.9 pH
Yellow Lemon - 8.2 pH
Avocado - 15.6 pH
* Garlic - 13.2 pH
* Mango - 8.7 pH
* Tangerine - 8.5 pH
* Pineapple - 12.7 pH
* Watercress - 22.7 pH
* Oranges - 9.2 pH

How to know that you are infected with corona virus?

1. Itchy throat
2. Dry throat
3. Dry cough
4. High temperature
5. Shortness of breath
6. Loss of smell ....
And lemon with warm water eliminates the virus at the beginning before reaching the lungs ...
Do not keep this information to yourself. Provide it to all your family and friends.


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## Damfino

When I got sick last February there was no itchy throat at all. It was a 100% lung thing, and it was the same for my husband. That's what made us call it the "weird flu" at the time. There was zero sore throat and zero congestion. For a couple of days before I felt sick I had this occasional tiny weird dry cough and I couldn't figure out where the heck it was coming from because it sure as heck wasn't my throat! I'd never had a "lung" cough except briefly after inhaling super-cold air, but I wasn't inhaling super-cold air! 

About two days later I crashed hard after a morning walk. I was planning to eat lunch but I was so exhausted I just collapsed in a chair by the woodstove and sat huddled there for several hours. I was freezing cold from the inside out and couldn't warm up no matter how hot I stoked the stove or no matter how close I sat to it, so I just shivered all afternoon. My husband felt the same but he had his work over Zoom so he wrapped himself in three blankets and had a space heater blasting on him all day. 

We could barely drag ourselves around to do chores that evening and I had to stop and rest (catch my breath!) a couple times when hauling hay up the hill to the boys' pen. I fell asleep at 8:30 that night and slept until 8:30 the next morning (full 12 hours!) and I never woke up. I was just as cold and tired next morning as I'd been the day before. I got through chores and then sat in my chair by the woodstove all morning. I fell asleep for 2-3 hours in the afternoon and when I woke up I was suddenly fine. I still had the little weird cough (it lingered for a few days for me and two more weeks for my husband) but I had energy again. While I was sick, I had to lean on the bannister and catch my breath (and even sit down once!) after I climbed the stairs. 

Afterwards I was elated because this was the first time I'd ever been sick without developing bronchitis! For me, the worst symptom of cold/flu is that it never fails to settle in my upper chest and then I have this body-wrenching cough that lasts for 2-4 weeks and I lose my voice, etc. This sickness was over in about 30 hours, 15 of which I was asleep. About a week later I had an odd thing happen which I didn't know what to think of until I read about it a few months later. My feet started itching and I had all these little red spots as though I'd gotten into poison ivy. It was winter so I hadn't been barefoot and we don't have poison ivy in our area anyway. It cleared up in a few days and I didn't know what to think of it until I found out that it can be a weird little side-effect of COVID-19. "COVID toes" are more common in children (often the only symptom), and they can be a very rare side effect of flu, but since COVID is more closely a circulatory ailment than a respiratory one, it's a lot more common with the novel coronavirus. Apparently it's an after-effect of reduced oxygen to the extremities. My 9-year-old nephew had a rash on his toes and fingers last March with no other illness other than feeling "off" a week or so before, and this is apparently very common in COVID+ children.

By now it seems like almost everyone I know has either had COVID or is recovering. It's nice to see so many on "the other side". Phil's aunt and uncle are still in the worst shape but apparently they're starting to breathe a little easier lately.


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## Goats Rock

They kept everyone in a panic over Covid 19. Then when people started getting tired of the drama and nonsense and lies, they have come out with a stronger corona virus. Why can't "they" just be truthful instead of all the theatrics and lies? Quit crying wolf, over and over...
Yes, it exists, yes it is contagious, yes, it kills. But, do we live in our basements the rest of our life? I am tired of all the bologna! Use common sense, don't go in public if you are ill, etc.


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## ksalvagno

Goats Rock said:


> They kept everyone in a panic over Covid 19. Then when people started getting tired of the drama and nonsense and lies, they have come out with a stronger corona virus. Why can't "they" just be truthful instead of all the theatrics and lies? Quit crying wolf, over and over...
> Yes, it exists, yes it is contagious, yes, it kills. But, do we live in our basements the rest of our life? I am tired of all the bologna! Use common sense, don't go in public if you are ill, etc.


Agree. Tired of it all. Sad how many lives this is destroying with shutdowns and curfews.


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## Tanya

Its simple logic. The contageous desease act here SA says stay at home and get better to pre ent further spread. Duh.


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## Goats Rock

Everyone stayed home, wore masks, etc and still the numbers increased. So, now a lot of people are totally ignoring all the mandates. I'm not sure what the answer is. But honesty on the part of govt. officials would be a start!


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## Moers kiko boars

Well we All know :up:THATS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!:haha::haha::haha:


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## Goats Rock

I know....... Hey, I can dream! :up::imok:


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## Moers kiko boars

Dream away ! I wish for honesty also. Just the plain ol truth works wonders. But all the drama, :cow:, and rambeling fake self know it alls...destroy any chance of reality. So dont believe all you read
.go to the source. That helps.


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## Tanya

Omw! Just saw on our news. There are pharmacies dispensing IVERMECTIN/IVERMOL as a COVID drug. How is an animal dewormer used for this? Really?????


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## Goats Rock

They had a run on ivomec at the Tractor Supply. Ridiculous!


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## luvmyherd

With cases soaring in our area, and hospitals full; we are staying in as much as possible. We would do that even if there was no stay-at-home order.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Omw! Just saw on our news. There are pharmacies dispensing IVERMECTIN/IVERMOL as a COVID drug. How is an animal dewormer used for this? Really?????


Ivermectin has shown good results in both prevention and treatment of Covid-19. I believe they first discovered that as early as April or May. I'm not sure why it works but it seems to produce decent outcomes. I'm honestly not sure why it hasn't been used more broadly since it's a relatively safe drug. I believe it's used more often as a treatment in second and third world countries than the rest--probably because it's cheap and readily available. There haven't been a lot of studies on it though so I guess that's why it's not being used in richer nations.


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## Damfino

I'm happy to report that Phil's aunt and uncle are over the hump. Steve was the one we were quite worried about, but he seems to be doing well now. Still a little tired but no longer in danger. 

My aunt and uncle down in Texas got Covid in late November and my aunt came down with it pretty bad. My cousin Travis and his family came up to Colorado for a ski trip around New Years and my husband, Phil, asked Travis how his mom was doing. 

"Oh, not good at all," he said. "She really got slammed and is having a hard time getting over it." 

"So she's still got symptoms?" Phil asked. 

"Oh, you mean Covid?" Travis replied. "Oh no, she's over that! I was talking about the election!" 

My aunt and uncle are very active in the Republican party down in Texas and were delegates and everything. They'd been working for the last two years to get Trump re-elected so they were quite devastated when he lost (especially my aunt). Phil about died laughing when he realized Travis was talking about the election and not Covid!


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## happybleats

"Oh, you mean Covid?" Travis replied. "Oh no, she's over that! I was talking about the election!""

Lol..too funny.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well they havent tested any of the covid vaccines in any true studies like any and all other medicines. Its a guessing game right now. So the side effects aren't made public. The information of the vaccine is not released. And no one knows if it will work or for how long. Right now the side effects are as bad as the virus. So please be cautious..and get your facts from medical or pharmacologic studies. Not the internet.


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## Goats Rock

My daughter just told me she is pregnant (she'll be a FF). Since she is 35, the doctor ordered all sorts of tests, etc. Praying all is well and not asking any prying questions! But, I am concerned about her getting the vaccine. She is a public school teacher..... Praying (pray) it all works out well, for everyone. I guess she is due to kid in July......:haha: (She is not a goat person- glad she doesn't know this is here!) :heehee:


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## Moers kiko boars

Congratulations Gran goats rock! I will keep her in my.prayers!


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## NDinKY

Moers kiko boars said:


> Well they havent tested any of the covid vaccines in any true studies like any and all other medicines. Its a guessing game right now. So the side effects aren't made public. The information of the vaccine is not released. And no one knows if it will work or for how long. Right now the side effects are as bad as the virus. So please be cautious..and get your facts from medical or pharmacologic studies. Not the internet.


Here is the publication for the COVE trial, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, a very reputable journal. This study was well designed and robust.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

At this point there have been millions of doses administered and very few serious adverse events documented. Mine was no worse than the flu shot, with my arm sore for two days. I did get a small lump on day 7 along with some soreness but that's already going away. I hear the booster shot is a doozy, where you get more of the side effects (fever, feeling terrible for a day or two). Mine isn't until the end of the month.

When my vaccine was administered, they gave me a fact sheet like any other vaccine, disclosing known side effects. There was nothing shady. And informed consent that it was an EUA and not FDA approved.


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## Goats Rock

So, basically, you have to plan that second shot in order to not cause problems with your farm! Since I do most everything alone, I'll have to make sure my son is available to help out if the second shot knocks me for a loop. (not that they are even offering it to the general public around here- it will be months before we see it). Then I need to weigh all sides...... I'm so confused! 
(headsmash):ahh::imok: I'm just glad *I'm* not pregnant!!!!!!! I did my part in that dept. (4 kids, all grown)


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## NDinKY

You do have to be ready for the second shot. I plan on being out of commission for two days; hopefully it is not that bad. Apparently the younger people with more robust immune systems have more side effects. My husband got his vaccine today so we're about 10 days apart for the booster so can trade off duties.

I just saw this article in the Lancet published today about the after effects of Covid in hospitalized patients 6 months out: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32656-8/fulltext

I know there are a lot of reports about healthcare workers refusing the vaccine but at my center they've administered over 6,000 vaccines so far. I'm thinking it's because we're all seeing the badness of this disease, it's not an abstract thing.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well the death ratio is rising. Be aware.of the.heart attacks and seizures that have increased. Please be aware it is untested.


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## lottsagoats1

I work at a hospital, security officer, and have to wrestle with uncooperative patients (usually drugged out or mental health patients) who test positive for CV19. We now have to wear goggles along with the masks. They just started with the vaccinations, voluntary at this point as I am not sure they can make experimental drug/vaccine mandatory. I am NOT getting it. I don't trust it. They can't prove it really works, as it was tested on a tiny group of people. Even the label says it "may" work to prevent covid. It was pushed through way too quickly.


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## ksalvagno

Moers kiko boars said:


> Well the death ratio is rising. Be aware.of the.heart attacks and seizures that have increased. Please be aware it is untested.


I'm assuming you are talking about the vaccine? I heard the same thing.


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## jschies

My son, who is an EMT got the shot. I know this is not supposed to happen, but he and his wife tested positive a few days later. She just lost her sense of taste, but got tested because she was going to be around my parents. He had fever for 3 or 4 days. He assumed the fever was from the shot, then decided to be tested the day after she tested positive. They don't know who they got it from. Weird coincidence!


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## Damfino

It takes several weeks for any vaccination to become effective and with Covid so prevalent right now there will be a lot of folks who obtain natural immunity before their vaccination has a chance to kick in. At this point there's not much use in speculating over where they got infected. There's so much Covid going round at the moment that it could come from just about any source. 

I'm finding it interesting that in our area, only a few people seem to be getting sick. Tons of folks are in quarantine from being exposed because Pueblo county was a hot spot all through November and December. However, only a few have come down with Covid this fall. Last January tons of people in our community were down with a very nasty "flu". My husband and I got it in February and we have no idea where we picked it up since we weren't going out too much around that time. Then in March when everyone was panicking over this new coronavirus, a few of the folks who caught the tail end of the sickness that had already passed through our local schools and churches went in to get tested. They tested positive and they had no idea where they got it because it was assumed that they were among the first positive tests in our area. Nevermind that tests weren't available earlier in the year! At the time I suspected that they were among the last in our community to be hit by the "first wave." The general lack of illness that's happening right now despite lots of exposure seems to be bearing that out. 

A lot of the little ski towns in Colorado are experiencing the same thing. I'm quite certain that they were among the first and worst hit in Colorado last year since there is so much international tourism in those places. Their nursing homes took a hard hit last spring but not so much now. It's the big cities in Colorado that got the bigger "wave" this winter but our small towns seem to be getting spared, which would point to a certain baseline of immunity in those places.


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## luvmyherd

Goats Rock said:


> (she'll be a FF)


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## HoosierShadow

I have been out of the loop as far as news, Covid, etc. I am worried about the safety of the vaccine, but know 2 people so far that have had both their shots and so far so good as far as I know. 

I started working in the local grocery (biggest store they have in our state), and scares me to get Covid, but really needed to be working to pay for these 4 footed brats and the improvements we're trying to make. All I can do is wear my mask, wash my hands, and use sanitizer religiously and try to avoid people. BUT...OMG you'd think there was no virus and people are just wearing masks for the heck of it, then there are those randoms who come in gloved up, wiping everything down and try to keep their distance. I keep my distance but it's hard to do if someone is speaking and you can't hear/understand them or vice versa, especially the older people. I have to say, I feel so sad for the older people who come in and worry if they will get the virus and how it will affect them, it's so heartbreaking to feel that way when you look at someone.
I wonder if I've come in contact with Covid even if I haven't gotten it. We share devices at work, carts (I fill online orders and honestly love it even though it's exhausting lol), then if you are filling refrigerated or freezer orders your constantly opening doors. I think someone at night may wipe down the doors, but have never seen it. We keep sanitizer in our carts so again, I use it quite often.

I've been trying to call the county clerk to get some info for my son (painted his car and painted over his license plate and it's partially legible lol), and finally today got message that said they've been closed since Wed due to Covid positive.
We're waiting for Thursday to see if in person school will get to start next week, if so, my daughter will be returning to class 2 days a week - she has been doing virtual since March 2020, and we wanted to wait and see how the fall went before letting her go back. It scares me so much, but I know how badly she needs a sense of normal back in her life. She's very isolated. Thankfully the goats are keeping her busy. I want her to change masks through the day, lots of hand washing and sanitizer and lots of praying!


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## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> My daughter just told me she is pregnant (she'll be a FF). Since she is 35, the doctor ordered all sorts of tests, etc. Praying all is well and not asking any prying questions! But, I am concerned about her getting the vaccine. She is a public school teacher..... Praying (pray) it all works out well, for everyone. I guess she is due to kid in July......:haha: (She is not a goat person- glad she doesn't know this is here!) :heehee:


Congrats! And are you a ff grams too? It is a slippery slope lol! We have two in vermont that we never get to see and now a nasty divorce w them so we will really never get to see the kids. But we have a six month old here. His dam and sire are police officer and nurse... so lil g comes here a few days a week. It is like being a ff grams and it is absolutely WONDERFUL!


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## Goats Rock

I have 4 other grandmonsters. (3 boys and a girl) One is 16, he used to be in goat 4-H until his dad moved him to PA. (daughter moved to NC) his brother is 13, then up the road are 2, 12 and 10. So this will be #5. Wow, now I do feel old!

Sfgwife- your little guy is 6 months already??? Wow!


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## Goats Rock

I was reading the Obituaries, yeah, pretty morbid, but, we live in a small population county (under 100,000, but the largest county, land wise in the state) so, unfortunately, I know alot of the folks that are in the obits, classmates (Yikes!) and their parents who are in their 80's.

Anyway, due to good old Covid19 and all the social distancing stuff, probably 75% are going to have a memorial service "later". That means, when Spring or Covid goes away or whatever, all these well meaning mourners are going to have outside memorial picnics etc. And then they will release helium balloons or those darn kite things with the little candle and the little wire brace in them. All will eventually fall in someones hay field. Then livestock, especially goats, may eat them in the hay next summer. 

I am sending a letter to all the funeral homes and our local tv networks (ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX) asking them to suggest people plant trees or put names on park benches, etc. to honor the lost loved one, and to please not release balloons. 

It sounds pretty trivial until you lose a best goat due to a perforated intestine from the string on the balloon tying the guts in a knot.


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## luvmyherd

Ditto on the balloons! We found two Mylar balloons in the middle of nowhere while hiking in Death Valley. They can end up anywhere!


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## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> I have 4 other grandmonsters. (3 boys and a girl) One is 16, he used to be in goat 4-H until his dad moved him to PA. (daughter moved to NC) his brother is 13, then up the road are 2, 12 and 10. So this will be #5. Wow, now I do feel old!
> 
> Sfgwife- your little guy is 6 months already??? Wow!


He is! It has flown by it seems! He got a tooth last wed and boy the drewl today! I say by fri the second will be peekin out from under that skin.


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## Moers kiko boars

Awww what a cutie. They grow up so fast. Very nice pictures!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Goats Rock said:


> Everyone stayed home, wore masks, etc and still the numbers increased.


With all due respect, im going to have to disagree. Lets take Australia for example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c198b2-1cb7-11eb-ad53-4c1fda49907d_story.html

They did everything right while under a democratically run nation. 20 people infected today, and they haven't even hit 1,000 deaths. Just so you know, Texas, has 30,760 as of January 12, 2021 at 9:32 p.m.
Update* its 10:00 when i finished writing this: We are at 31,017

I cant believe I'm saying 1000 deaths like its not a lot, but compared to the US and England, they don't even compete. 
The thing is, enough people didn't social distance, enough people didn't wear their mask. Enough people didn't follow official guidelines. Why? Beats me. Well, I know why, but I'd get this post deleted if i said it. We wouldn't be in this mess still if people wouldn't let their egos and personal opinions get in the way.

Its bad in the south. Especially in Texas. But I've been feeling bold lately and have been carrying disposables in my purse. When I see someone with out one I'll stop them, pull it out and say something like "hey I think you forgot something . Good thing i have extras huh" Its fun to see the dumbfounded look on their face.

I'm really tired of this... *REALLY *tired. I should be having the best years of my life in my teens. Out with friends, having fun right? But no, im stuck inside, trying to protect the elderly, but when I go out, the elderly are the ones refusing to wear a mask and throwing fits like toddlers. Completely selfish and a total disregard for human life. Grow up.

Anyways, I'm not sure if I've said anything about my dads friend but I'm pretty sure i have. 
Recap:
He had a massive heart attack about 2 years ago, was pronounced dead, they brought him back to life, got surgery, now has 20% of his heart left. That's it. 
He got Covid. Its looking real bad. He went to, I believe, Missouri because he got a puppy. Shoulda gotten it flown to him, but he's impulsive and a man, so they don't listen. Came back, tried to get into work, but at my dads work you have to get tested every time you enter the plant. he had it. I haven't asked how he's doing for about a week, but last time I checked, terrible.

Also more school ranting :/
Recap:
my usual school had an online program from August to November
Teachers got tired of it, made us go back
I went back for 3 days, and several panic attacks (not at school I would NEVER show emotion there lol) and intense arguments with kids who wouldn't wear their masks later, I switched to another school who had an online program
Was going very well, all A's one B, and they decide to shut their online program down... And wanted us to come back after winter break... After the holidays... While Covid cases are rising...
No thanks
first day back, 6 kids were infected from elementary-highschool. For a 1-A school, that's a lot. Second day back, a dozen. in a few days, the kids who went sick are gonna have more kids infected, and it will double again.

Now I'm finally on a homeschool program, with one of my friends from the original school. We help each other and stuff, and the work is very laid back and chill. Only thing is that I pretty much have had to start over all of my classes each time i switched schools. Don't ask me why. you would think they had my records... 
anyways, that's stressful, but I've done it twice already, i can get it done QUICK the 3rd time. Hopefully.

I think im finally at a school for the rest of the year. So that's nice. Hopefully by they beginning of next year I can go back to normal school and hang out with my friends and make new ones.

I'm tired...


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

aww sfgwife, your grand baby is growin up soo quick! Omg, wasnt he born like yesterday lol  Too cute.


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## Goats Rock

Boy is he a cutie!


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## Tanya

Sister has recovered somewhat. She got the vaccine. :-( Not doing her any better. She is still very ill. But should make it.

I wish you all well.


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## Damfino

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> I cant believe I'm saying 1000 deaths like its not a lot...


It's not a lot. In fact, it's hardly any. To be fair, 30,000 deaths in a population of almost 30 million is also not a lot. It's important to keep things in perspective.



Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> The thing is, enough people didn't social distance, enough people didn't wear their mask. Enough people didn't follow official guidelines. Why? Beats me. Well, I know why, but I'd get this post deleted if i said it.


It has little to do with politics so don't worry about getting censored.  It's everything to do with culture and reality. It wouldn't matter who was in charge of the politics in this country because the outcome would have been the same. We are not a borderless island nation (or even island continent) that can be effectively closed off from the world. We also don't have a homogenous, unified culture that can be easily or effectively controlled. We have far and away more huge mega-cities than Australia, which are what fuels pandemics. Even the most locked-down cities and states in America (and in Europe) have gotten slammed by Covid because the practical reality of keeping people separated is beyond enforceability. If everything worked as well everywhere as it did in Australia, then Europe and certain states in the U.S. would have many success stories, but those places have gotten slammed too. Climate is also a huge factor that few people take into consideration. Australia's hot, arid climate works to their advantage with a virus like this. There's no one-size-fits-all approach that works for every situation. Sometimes saying, "This will work!" and then seeing the reality that it doesn't can be the most frustrating situation of all because it leads to despair.

I don't know about Australia, but in the U.S. the virus was everywhere before China even announced it in December. Labs have started testing blood samples taken in 2019 to see how far back they can find Covid antibodies. They've been shocked (not sure why) to discover Covid antibodies present in blood from a dozen different states taken in September 2019. That means it was already widespread all over the U.S. for months before anyone knew about it.



Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> I should be having the best years of my life in my teens. Out with friends, having fun right? But no, im stuck inside, trying to protect the elderly, but when I go out, the elderly are the ones refusing to wear a mask and throwing fits like toddlers.


The best years of your life are not usually your teens.  Thank goodness, because if that were the case we'd have nothing to look forward to after 20! I like to believe that the best years of my life are always the ones I'm living right now. My brother once wrote a song that said, "The grass is always greener on my side of the fence." I really like that attitude.

Don't worry about the elderly who aren't worrying about themselves. It's not your job to save them, nor your place to judge them. The sooner you realize you can't control other people, the happier you'll be in life (and this applies to all things, not just Covid). I have some elderly friends who regularly flout Covid rules, but I have to realize that they are in their last years. They want their time to count. They would rather risk dying of Covid having spent their last days with friends and family than to spend months withering away in isolation. It's ok. Everyone has to make those decisions for themselves and it's not my job to judge them or worry about them.

It's kind of like your dad's friend who went out and got the puppy. It was his risk to take. Was it worth it? Only he can be the judge of that. If he'd died in a car accident on the trip, no one would have said driving was an unnecessary risk even though it obviously was. It's just that driving is a risk we take for granted because we're so used to it and we no longer blame the risk as people did in the 1920's when cars were new. Hopefully he once more survives his dance with the Reaper, but if not hopefully he's at peace with the life he lived and the decisions he made.


----------



## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Sister has recovered somewhat. She got the vaccine. :-( Not doing her any better. She is still very ill. But should make it.
> 
> I wish you all well.


Well, the vaccine isn't going to help her recover. It might in fact make her feel worse. It's not usually considered good protocol to vaccinate someone who has an active infection or is still recovering. I hope she feels better soon.

I talked to Phil's aunt and uncle yesterday. They're Covid-free now and are basking in the glow of their newly acquired antibodies. Hopefully your sister will be in the same place soon.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey @Nigerian dwarf goat ! I dont blame you for being upset. I agree people need to be less SELF centered long enough to put on a mask and have manners. There are always going to be those that think they are above all guidelines. But by useing your brain and keep your family & friends close. Being able to talk about your frustrations ..wont fix Covid..but it will help you and others get closer. Thats one thing that is helping people stop living for the money..and start realizing how precious family is. We are actually returning to being human..instead of taking everything & everyone for granted. 
We arent just brains without hopes & dreams. So keep working with those close to you. And enjoy making memories. Sorry but school sucked even when we were packed in like sardines.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> It's not a lot. In fact, it's hardly any. To be fair, 30,000 deaths in a population of almost 30 million is also not a lot. It's important to keep things in perspective.


Again, I am going to have to disagree. These are humans lives we are talking about. 1000 families with an empty chair at dinner. Even worse, 30,000 deaths that could have been prevented. Yeah, a lot may have been old or had underlying conditions, but covid shortened their life. And the so many people with full lives ahead of them. The families of those 30,000 who are still grieving and hurting.



Damfino said:


> It has little to do with politics so don't worry about getting censored.  It's everything to do with culture and reality.


Yes culture has a lot to do with it, but usually people without masks are flaunting a certain someones merch. At least they are in Texas.



Damfino said:


> The best years of your life are not usually your teens.  Thank goodness, because if that were the case we'd have nothing to look forward to after 20!


Well then id definitely love to be spending these years of my life out of the house, and preferably not in a global pandemic lol :ahh:



Damfino said:


> Australia's hot, arid climate works to their advantage with a virus like this. There's no one-size-fits-all approach that works for every situation.


Texas, alond with the rest of the south, has hot, arid climate didnt seem to help... Hitting over 100* didnt seem to do anything at all, but spread it because people just cant give up summer activities.



Damfino said:


> We have far and away more huge mega-cities than Australia, which are what fuels pandemics.


Sydney Australia has 5.23 million people- 5041 cases. 
LA, which i would consider a mega city-3.967 million people -2.82 MILLION cases... 
La has a smaller population than Sydney...



Damfino said:


> "This will work!" and then seeing the reality that it doesn't can be the most frustrating situation of all because it leads to despair.


Ok, but the reality is that it did work. And I used Australia as an example, but many other countries like New Zealand, Iceland, Singapore etc. All democratically run, had similar systems work too. Yeah, smaller countries, but i think we could learn a little something. And with how things are going here, it could literally save lives. It really wont hurt to try at this point...



Damfino said:


> I don't know about Australia, but in the U.S. the virus was everywhere before China even announced it in December. Labs have started testing blood samples taken in 2019 to see how far back they can find Covid antibodies. They've been shocked (not sure why) to discover Covid antibodies present in blood from a dozen different states taken in September 2019. That means it was already widespread all over the U.S. for months before anyone knew about it.


I definitely had it from like December and caught it like 3 other times from school by February.:imok: everybody but my dad got whatever was going around.


----------



## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Hey @Nigerian dwarf goat ! I dont blame you for being upset. I agree people need to be less SELF centered long enough to put on a mask and have manners. There are always going to be those that think they are above all guidelines. But by useing your brain and keep your family & friends close. Being able to talk about your frustrations ..wont fix Covid..but it will help you and others get closer. Thats one thing that is helping people stop living for the money..and start realizing how precious family is. We are actually returning to being human..instead of taking everything & everyone for granted.
> We arent just brains without hopes & dreams. So keep working with those close to you. And enjoy making memories. Sorry but school sucked even when we were packed in like sardines.


What's the point of being upset? It mostly just hurts yourself and doesn't change anything. Scolding other people and nagging them to wear masks will only make them dig in their heels and make them LESS inclined to actually do it. All we can do is be a good example to others. If you believe in mask-wearing, be a good mask wearer. Don't judge other people for not believing the same as you and for not following the "rules."

I don't believe in mask wearing. I don't think enough people do it properly, and I think many are actually making themselves sick from their own masks. But if it makes people feel better, and if it makes them feel like they're doing something to fight the virus, that's actually a good thing. Placebo medicine is actually very powerful for the psyche. It gives people a mental ability to feel like they have control. The problem is when they extend that control to other people.

Now me personally, I wear my mask every time I'm in public even though I actually believe it's unhealthy. I do it purely to make other people feel better--not because I believe in it. That is exactly the opposite of a selfish act. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a self-sacrificing act since I believe my mask increases my odds of getting sick (mostly because I'm an absolutely _dreadful_ mask wearer who can't keep my hands off it for 2 seconds among other things).


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## Damfino

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> I definitely had it from like December and caught it like 3 other times from school by February.:imok: everybody but my dad got whatever was going around.


If you got Covid four times in a row between December and February, then the vaccine is never going to work. Vaccination relies on the body's ability to produce antibodies that have some staying power. Fortunately it looks like Covid antibodies are pretty darn good! This is good news for natural immunity _and_ for the vaccine!


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## Goats Rock

Most people I see, in the rare occasion I go out in public, wear chin diapers.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> If you got Covid four times in a row between December and February, then the vaccine is never going to work


its free, so its worth a "shot" heheheh (rofl) i think im funny haha
And I was also sharing food with friends, nothing was being sanitized etc. I got a fever with the first time. The rest, I just had a stuffy nose and post nasal drip. so it may have just been once with either lingering symptoms, or even just colds. 
My friend was tested in I believe February while she had the exact same thing, because she was having trouble breathing and her mom took her to an urgent care (that kid is always sick though) and surprisingly, she was negative.:shrug: But COVID test have come a long way...

Also, i recall in the very end of February through march 2nd, the county show was held. EVERYBODY had a respiratory infection! My other friends gramma had a "nasty case of bronchitis" 
Really is crazy.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> I don't believe in mask wearing.


... I'm curious. When a surgeon wears a mask in a surgery because the room needs to be completely sterile, you are saying that doesn't work? You are saying that the room would still be completely sterile if that surgeon didn't have a mask on? You dont think that they stop bacteria going in or out out? 
The only reason they wouldn't work is because you aren't washing your reusable one often. Most people have decent hygiene..
And the only way you would get more sick is if you already had something you are breathing in and out that would make you more sick. And by then you should know and quarantine yourself.

And if you are constantly touching it, just wash your hands more often. Or simply ignore the urge to mess with it, the same way you ignore the urge to scratch a bug bite. Soon, you forget about it. I know its hard. My ADHD challenges me every day haha, but lately I've been forgetting I'm even wearing it when I get in the car. 
You cant deny the scientific proof that masks work.



Damfino said:


> I don't think enough people do it properly,


Then they arent wearing their mask. So it isnt going to work. It isnt rocket science. 2 loops behind the ears, over the breathing holes. Done.



Damfino said:


> I think many are actually making themselves sick from their own masks.


I havent gotten sick since the mask mandate, but that might just be me. I usually get the flu or strep once a year and at least 2 colds. So far... nothing

Im really not trying to pick fights, i just dont understand how scientific facts are being purposely ignored. 
Anyways, i like to hear others opinions, and im also very opinionated, so maybe we will just have to agree to disagree.


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## Damfino

So, I was going to reply to you but then looked at the clock and realized I had to be at a saddle club meeting.



Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Again, I am going to have to disagree. These are humans lives we are talking about. 1000 families with an empty chair at dinner. Even worse, 30,000 deaths that could have been prevented. Yeah, a lot may have been old or had underlying conditions, but covid shortened their life. And the so many people with full lives ahead of them. The families of those 30,000 who are still grieving and hurting.


I understand. For individuals, it's hard to lose friends and family. It's something we all experience because every single human being on the planet dies. Most of us will, before the end of our lives, lose most of the people we love. But when you take numbers as a whole, you're not dealing with individual cases any more. It's sad on an individual basis that so many children die in swimming pools every year, but if you let sentiment run the day you'd end up banning all swimming pools outright in order to save the children. Nevermind that most children survive growing up in a world with swimming pools. Every single thing we do in life is a balance of risks. I'd say the 1/1000 odds of dying from Covid is not high enough to make me feel alarmed. The odds of dying in a car crash are actually 10 times that high--about 1/100--but it hasn't stopped me driving. The odds of dying of cancer: 1/7. The odds of dying of heart disease: 1/6. Covid looks pretty feeble compared to any of those other causes of death. The only reason people are alarmed is because it's new and because it's striking many people at once (also because it's new).



> Well then id definitely love to be spending these years of my life out of the house, and preferably not in a global pandemic lol :ahh:


And I think that you should be out of the house. There's no reason for you to be stuck at home. Get out. Do things. It actually IS ok! At your age, the odds of dying from flu are actually higher than the odds of dying from Covid. (Older people--different story.) Yet you don't stop doing things with friends for fear of catching flu. Why? Because it's a boring old risk that we're all used to taking.



> Texas, alond with the rest of the south, has hot, arid climate didnt seem to help... Hitting over 100* didnt seem to do anything at all, but spread it because people just cant give up summer activities.


Texas is hot, but it's definitely not arid! I believe Houston got hit hardest in your state and really drove up the death numbers. Houston is probably the most humid place I've ever been. I've wondered all along whether Colorado's dry climate has helped us avoid a bad Covid outbreak. It probably also helps that we are the slimmest state in the U.S. and generally a younger demographic. Old age and obesity are major drivers of Covid deaths.



> Sydney Australia has 5.23 million people- 5041 cases.
> LA, which i would consider a mega city-3.967 million people -2.82 MILLION cases...
> La has a smaller population than Sydney...


It's a very good point, but WHY didn't the exact same measures work in L.A. that worked in Sydney? California has some of the strictest lockdown rules in America and you can't blame L.A.'s politics like you can in Texas. There are other forces at work here that are perhaps beyond anyone's ability to control. I know we humans like to believe we can control things, but I'm convinced that a lot of things also come down to luck. When we have good luck we like to pat ourselves on the back for being amazing, but when we have bad luck we do our best to find somebody to blame. Yes, there are definitely some things we can control, but there are also some that we can't. Controlling people is one of the trickier ones in a country like the U.S. which is driven by an individualism ingrained in our culture. We can scold people all we like about it, but scolding people rarely ever changed anyone.



> Ok, but the reality is that it did work. And I used Australia as an example, but many other countries like New Zealand, Iceland, Singapore etc. All democratically run, had similar systems work too. Yeah, smaller countries, but i think we could learn a little something. And with how things are going here, it could literally save lives. It really won't hurt to try at this point...


Hurt to try... what exactly? What hasn't been tried? And then you'll need convince me that whatever we're going to try won't hurt anyone.


----------



## Damfino

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> ... I'm curious. When a surgeon wears a mask in a surgery because the room needs to be completely sterile, you are saying that doesn't work? You are saying that the room would still be completely sterile if that surgeon didn't have a mask on? You dont think that they stop bacteria going in or out out?


In this case I think masks can work very well, but the surgeon is trained. All healthcare workers actually take mandatory classes on how to properly use and handle their masks. And then they have to practice day in, day out. And if you've been in a hospital you soon realize that even fully trained professionals aren't always very good at it. There's a reason why ~250,000 people/year die from entirely preventable hospital mistakes, and one of the big ones is hygiene. When done _properly_ mask wearing is very helpful. When done improperly it can actually make things worse than having no mask at all. Most of the "unwashed masses" appear to be doing it improperly--even those who have good intentions!



> The only reason they wouldn't work is because you aren't washing your reusable one often. Most people have decent hygiene..


I don't have good mask hygiene. Just call me "Pigpen". 



> And the only way you would get more sick is if you already had something you are breathing in and out that would make you more sick. And by then you should know and quarantine yourself.


The purpose of a mask is to filter stuff out. If it's doing its job, it will have virus particles on the outside. Then you handle it and you get those particles on your hands. And then you get them on your face when you take your mask on and off. And whatever you wiped from the grocery cart onto your hands ends up on your mask when you adjust it or have to scratch your nose. Then you wear those germs around on your face for a nice long time so you can breathe it in for extended periods in a nice moist environment where germs particularly thrive.



> And if you are constantly touching it, just wash your hands more often. Or simply ignore the urge to mess with it, the same way you ignore the urge to scratch a bug bite. Soon, you forget about it. I know its hard. My ADHD challenges me every day haha, but lately I've been forgetting I'm even wearing it when I get in the car.


I've been a fidgeter and nail biter for 42 years. Heck, I still pick at my underwear. I should've been a baseball player!



> You cant deny the scientific proof that masks work.


No, but I can deny that the scientific studies are based in reality. They're based completely on ideal situations and make the erroneous assumption that everyone is masking correctly when in real life, nothing could be further from the truth. You know how many masks I see wrapped around grocery cart handles on the way to the store?? People take them out, grab a cart with their mask still in their hand, then put it on just before they walk into the store. I have yet to see one scientific study that accounts for practical mask handling rather than the purely theoretical ideal we're supposed to aspire to. They need to start taking into account _actual human behavior_ rather than some ideal that doesn't exist in the real world.


----------



## Tanya

Ok. So lets do this. Here in SA we have 30 000 deaths and a couple hundred active cases and over a million recoveries.
The new approach here is..... wait for it ..... dont stay indoors without proper ventilation. Do not use air conditioners.... open windows and doors.
Try spend 1 third of your day outside... but not in public.
In public wear your masks and sanitize and social distance. Do not go into over crowded areas like clubs, pubs, restuarants and shops.... unless you REALLY have to.

So now is my question. I live ver isolated on a rescue. I have 3 families here that work for the rescue. We have our groceries delivered. I had the virus 2 times. My husband is a fatality. And yet non of those other families got it. We have a clinic visit us 1 a week for safety....


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## AndersonRanch

So super interesting thing I saw on the news. So most people will wear a mask even for a few minutes, take it off when they are out of the store or whatever, lay that mask down in their car and put back on at the next stop. BUT what we are not seeing is we are filling all those microscopic holes with our germs, then dander, dust, all that fun stuff floating around in our car is getting on that mask. When we go to the next store what is happening? We are actually pushing all that crap out. If that person is positive they are pushing that crap out out and the mask thing is basically doing Jack. I don’t know a single surgeon that puts on and removes their mask. So just because someone is wearing a mask doesn’t mean they are protecting you. I really wish people understood this and we would put more importance on the 6’ distance. I’m not saying do away with the masks but don’t Count on the fact that just because everyone has a mask on you are safe.
On the vaccine front keith was going to get his vaccine. One of his co workers tested positive so he took that as a sign. He signed up to be on the list, a friend of mine got the first dose and she said she was good. The day before she was due for her second dose her co-worker flat lined and is now in the ICU. She went ahead and got the second dose and 12 hours later she was sick as a dog. Fever and racing heart. By morning she just felt like she stayed up all night. 3 days later she feels fine. Her other co-worker decided to bypass the two vaccines that are out and wait for a third one that is not out yet but is supposed to have less side effects and doesn’t change the cells in your body. She looked into it and sent keith all the info so he took his name off the list and is waiting for the Johnson and Johnson one. I personally am saying nope to them all for now and probably for a long long time lol


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm

Tanya said:


> Ok. So lets do this. Here in SA we have 30 000 deaths and a couple hundred active cases and over a million recoveries.
> The new approach here is..... wait for it ..... dont stay indoors without proper ventilation. Do not use air conditioners.... open windows and doors.
> Try spend 1 third of your day outside... but not in public.
> In public wear your masks and sanitize and social distance. Do not go into over crowded areas like clubs, pubs, restuarants and shops.... unless you REALLY have to.
> 
> So now is my question. I live ver isolated on a rescue. I have 3 families here that work for the rescue. We have our groceries delivered. I had the virus 2 times. My husband is a fatality. And yet non of those other families got it. We have a clinic visit us 1 a week for safety....


@Tanya I'm so sorry to hear about your husband!
It is interesting that you mention fresh air as part of the measures SA is taking. I read about the Spanish flu pandemic that happened during WWI, and apparently, fresh air was something that was widely used to control the spread and to speed recovery. Open air clinics were set up for convalescents.
To my knowledge, no-one in the US is trying this (except me...I HAVE to be outside a lot of the time), but since I believe I read a study that indicates the Covid-19 virus can not survive well in an open air environment, especially sunshine, it seems like a common sense approach to me.


----------



## Tanya

@Caileigh Jane Smith the first time we got sick, we stayed closed up and them my h7sband got worse. The second time I got sick I refused to stay inside. I went outside sat in the sun. Spent time with my rescues and tool the medicine given me. I got better quicker and I did not make any one else sick.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm

Tanya said:


> @Caileigh Jane Smith the first time we got sick, we stayed closed up and them my h7sband got worse. The second time I got sick I refused to stay inside. I went outside sat in the sun. Spent time with my rescues and tool the medicine given me. I got better quicker and I did not make any one else sick.


I'm glad you were able to get better so quickly! That vitamin D from the sun shine does all kinds of good things! I always feel happier when I'm outside. So I figured that probably helps me feel better when I'm sick, too. I will go outside unless I'm so sick I can't leave my bed.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Damfino said:


> Heck, I still pick at my underwear


Im guilty as well (rofl)



Damfino said:


> People take them out, grab a cart with their mask still in their hand, then put it on just before they walk into the store.


Here, shopping cars are luckily being sanitized



AndersonRanch said:


> I really wish people understood this and we would put more importance on the 6' distance.


THIS! Yes! I believe mask work very well along with social distancing. but with a proper mask, you shouldn't be able to blow out a candle an inch from your face. Shouldn't even phase the flame.



AndersonRanch said:


> She went ahead and got the second dose and 12 hours later she was sick as a dog. Fever and racing heart.


I always have horrible reactions to shots. My tetanus shot last year was my worst ever. I got a 105 fever and was throwing up everything i ate. Lasted about 28 hours, and i suddenly snapped out of it and was fine. Its crazy how your body can react. 
After this years flu shot, I felt light headed. Very mild reaction for me. gone in about 12 hours. My arm was also sore for 2 ish days, which happens to me every time i get shots. I think I'm realizing my body isn't as strong as i think hahah 
i am going to have to find the stats, but from the 1 million people who have gotten at least 1 dose of the vaccine, 21 have had severe reactions, and most were reversed by either Benadryl or an epi-pen. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...vaccine-reported-overall-remain-rare-n1253007

My sister, who just graduated nursing school in December will be starting her first hospital job in February i think. She is going into ER. She should be getting the vaccine soon. I will update yall on how it goes for her


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## Goats Rock

A point about surgeons' masks, they are not the same ones that are sold to the public. We are getting junk from China- read the boxes, etc. Or fabric ones that look like fruit of the loom underpants cast offs...... I used to buy all the safety stuff for our company that worked in chemical plants. Those N95 masks and respirators were the real thing. KN95 are not the same...


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## goathiker

So I'm guessing that you all haven't figured out that once the hospitals were paid bonuses for covid patients they diagnosed every loss as a covid death? Even the CDC estimates the actual death rate as 6% of those reported.


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## Oliveoil

Yup, the numbers are an absolute joke lol.


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## Moers kiko boars

How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.


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## MellonFriend

Moers kiko boars said:


> How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.


I wondered this as well, but do we actually have scientific evidence that it _is_ mutating?

I mean, a new flu vaccine get produced every year. Is it like that?


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes a virus can mutate to survive. Thats why their are more than 1 type of flu. CDC has reported of 8 different strains of Covid so far.


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> So I'm guessing that you all haven't figured out that once the hospitals were paid bonuses for covid patients they diagnosed every loss as a covid death? Even the CDC estimates the actual death rate as 6% of those reported.


Well, yes and no. The CDC reports that ~6% of reported deaths were purely from Covid with no other underlying or exacerbating conditions. That doesn't mean only 6% of reported deaths are real. It just means that certain health conditions put people at risk of dying from Covid. I definitely think the death count is greatly inflated and many of the people who died of Covid this year would have died anyway from their other conditions and it would have been chalked up to pneumonia, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, flu-like illness, or one of the other big-time killers of people who are elderly and/or have serious health problems. Some "Covid" deaths would even be attributed to car wrecks or alcohol poisoning in any other year. 

On the other hand, there are a lot of folks who have died from Covid who would otherwise have been kicking around for quite a few more years as long as their underlying health conditions were being managed.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> How can they say a person dies of a certain virus. When they don't know what all the virus is? Its like the flu. .it keeps changing. So why do they think a vaccine will work? There are multiple strains already. Its like Cancer...a 3trillion a year income for pharmaceutical companies.


I'm not sure I understand. They DO know what the virus is. It's been identified for over a year now. Even if it mutates, it's still the same virus. A fruit fly that mutates is still a fruit fly. A vaccine's effectiveness depends on how stable the virus is. Some viruses mutate significantly to the point where vaccines are basically worthless (cold viruses for example). Some are stable enough to get semi-decent vaccines (flu). The Covid virus appears to be a lot more stable than either cold or flu viruses. It apparently mutates more slowly and less dramatically, which makes it a better candidate for vaccination. Hopefully this continues to hold true.


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## lottsagoats1

Most people don't actually die from Covid, they die from the damage done by the virus. The death certificates give several lines for cause of death and underlying issues. Usually those who have covid and die do so from respiratory issues. That would be listed at the cause of death. If their kidneys failed also, that would be 2nd and so on. Covid is listed as the underlying cause. I see enough of these, as I am one of the ones who bring the bodies to the morgue and then release them to the funeral homes.

My son, daughter in law and grandson had Covid early on, January 2020, as my DIL is head of the pharmacy in a huge Boston hospital that gets patients from all over the world. She got the first shot and was fine, except for a sore shoulder. She just had her 2nd dose this past week and got so sick from it that they were going to admit her. She is ok now, but said that the vaccine made her way sicker than Covid did.

My state got their first shipment of the vaccine just before Christmas. They vaccinated the healthcare workers, including public safety officers, and my department (Hospital Security). I refuse to take it as there is no proof it actually works and I don't believe it is safe. I will trust my own immune system to keep me healthy. I have been exposed numerous times to cv19 patients in the past 13 months or so and have not gotten so much as a sniffle. A lot of homeless and mental health patients have come here and been positive. The MH patients and drug abusing patients are the ones we seem to mostly go "hands on" with. Masks get ripped off, we get spit on, coughed at, you name it. Out of 59 officers, only 5 have gotten CV19, and most of those were from outside the hospital exposure.

Nope, no shots for me.


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## lottsagoats1

From what I have heard here at the hospital, the mutant CV19 viruses are less dangerous that the original.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes its a virus..but the mutation values change do to the receptors on the synapses of the cell . It flows through the system attacking randomley. It adhears at varying layers of cell structure
It is confusing to actually identify all the markers required to create a full vaccine to control all the receptor sites. 
So in laymans terms...they dont know.what it is. No set pattern. As it mutates it can increase in abilities or decrease due to certain variation in the human resistance. We all differ to degree.


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## Damfino

I'm sorry. I must be terribly obtuse because I still don't understand what you're getting at. Are you trying to say that this virus is indistinguishable from other viruses? Or that the virus has no identifiable features? You said yourself a few posts back that there are eight identified strains (actually, it's a lot more by now as there were already eight identified strains before last summer). If no one knows what it is or can identify that someone died from it, then how can they possibly identify varying strains of it? I don't understand what you're trying to get at or what conclusions we're supposed to draw from these apparently contradictory statements. 

As for the practical application, do you think vaccines are useless against this virus because it defies identification? Or that natural immunity is useless because our bodies can't keep up with the various mutations? Once again, what are you actually getting at? I'm sorry, but I sometimes find you difficult to understand.


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## Moers kiko boars

reading & verbalizing opinions about this viris are changeing dailey. K? Yes and with 8 identifiable strains it show mutation if that degree in such a short span of time. How many mutarions can a virus go through.in just 1 human? Hundreds.
Vaccine are good against the strain their markers are targeted to. Through antibodies is where we have resistance to the virus. As we adjust the positive abilities of the vacine to kill, retard, dissolve the virus..the virus can re adjust to survive.
So much is going on with the research of this new virus...many ideals and opinions change. Your not obtuse...you arent in medical research. It changes as we learn more if the capabilities of this. So...with actual experience..we can reseach , study, and learn to improve on the vaccine ther have thrown together to apease the population.


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## Damfino

You're very hard to understand. I think the phone or whatever it is you're using to type is getting in the way of proper communication more than anything else. Between run-on sentences, sentence fragments, and misspellings it's often hard to get your actual meaning.

There were already eight different identified strains (or perhaps a better word would be "variants") of Covid-19 in May of last year. There have to be thousands more than that by now! But these mutations don't make the virus something other than Covid-19. I may not be in medical research myself, but according to the folks who _are_ studying this virus, the various mutations are genetically still quite similar to one another. Are these folks lying to us? If so, what is their purpose? To keep people from panicking in the face of almost certain death and debilitation if this virus is capable of out-mutating all attempts at vaccination or natural immunity?

I personally don't think so. Just because a virus mutates doesn't make it a game of whack-a-mole. I have confidence that our immune systems are designed to deal with the long-standing fact of viral mutation. Viral mutations are nothing new. They've been happening since the dawn of time and yet mankind marches on. Vaccines are a new phenomenon in the course of human history that train the immune system to fight a virus without having to actually be sick from it. mRNA vaccines are themselves new in the field of vaccines and I find them rather fascinating. They've been in development for over 30 years but never tested until now. I'm not planning to get one myself for a very long time (if ever) for a variety of reasons. However, I hope that these are good vaccines and that they will improve in time and be applicable to other types of diseases.

You say the vaccine was thrown together to appease the population... are you saying that the vaccine is nothing better than a bit of magic "sugar water"? If so, then it won't take more than a few short months for people to find out it was a scam. If the vaccine doesn't work, then a significant percentage of the folks who got it are going to find themselves coming down with Covid within the next year. That would be an unfortunate situation for many reasons, not least of which is the complete erosion of people's faith in medical and scientific integrity.


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## Iluvlilly!

I feel this is a mess. What's the point in talking about depressing (kinda) things. Life is to short to be sad and try to figure this all out. Its totally fine if that's what you want to do, but maybe try and keep it a little more cheerful? This is just my personal opinion.


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## NDinKY

The spike on the virus is what the vaccines are promoting our immune systems to recognize. As long as the spike protein doesn’t mutate to a point where our immune system no longer recognizes it, the vaccine should remain effective. 

The newer variants do have some mutations in the spike protein, but not to the point where our immune systems won’t recognize the virus. That spike protein is what binds to the ACE2 receptor to enter the body, so if it mutates to have less binding then there will be less uptake. 

Recent studies are showing robust immune response from natural infection in most people. One I read today was saying there was still immunity in most of the study sample at 7 months out. Some people do get reinfected but it is not common. This is great news. 

As for dying from Covid being labeled in those with multiple comorbidities, if this virus trashes your lungs and causes you to have stroke/pulmonary embolisms, and brings death sooner than if you hadn’t gotten the virus, then you died from covid. I don’t see how that is confusing. Now the labeling of someone dying from trauma but happened to be covid positive doesn’t make sense.


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## Moers kiko boars

Lets make this very simple.
If your goat has worms. You have 1 wormer you can use. Because we never had this new worm before. So...the vets say 1 wormer will destroy all the worms in every goat. Because the vet says so.
You try it on your goats. It works on one..but the rest still have worms. So you try it again. Does it work? Why or why not?
Same scenario as the covid 19..and the vaccine. Do you understand now?


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## Damfino

Iluvlilly! said:


> I feel this is a mess. What's the point in talking about depressing (kinda) things. Life is to short to be sad and try to figure this all out. Its totally fine if that's what you want to do, but maybe try and keep it a little more cheerful? This is just my personal opinion.


Sorry if it's not cheerful. I personally enjoy discussion and debate. I find it mentally stimulating and I nearly always learn something. Hopefully no one thinks we're being uncivilized toward one another. Disagreement can be healthy as long as we don't let our emotions get involved.

This video is on-point and even though I'm not personally planning to get vaccinated, it still made me laugh...


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Lets make this very simple.
> If your goat has worms. You have 1 wormer you can use. Because we never had this new worm before. So...the vets say 1 wormer will destroy all the worms in every goat. Because the vet says so.
> You try it on your goats. It works on one..but the rest still have worms. So you try it again. Does it work? Why or why not?
> Same scenario as the covid 19..and the vaccine. Do you understand now?


Well... I thought I understood this particular point already. Your analogy appears to be treading ground we already covered: namely that you do not believe the vaccine will work. If that's the case then vaccine failure will become obvious over the next several months.

Is there some other part of your analogy I'm supposed to be picking up on here?

_You try it on your goats. It works on one..but the rest still have worms. So you try it again. Does it work? Why or why not?_

If I followed the correct protocol and observed a 95% failure rate after the first try, then I would not expect it to work any better on a second attempt. Why not? Because doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity.

The problem here is that the vaccine is as yet untried. We are in the pre-dose stage where the vet has only told us this will work. In the case of Covid vaccines, it's going to take a good year before we have solid reason to believe it works. If it works as poorly as the wormer in your analogy then we can look back, observe the total failure, and not bother trying it again. That would be a major tragedy and setback for the scientific and medical communities as their reputations are completely on the line here!

My question is WHY do you believe the vaccine is a failure? My opinion is that we just don't know. The trials appear promising, but there has not been enough time to see if the vaccines will offer long-term protection or cause unexpected side effects that may not be observed for years down the road. I am optimistic that the vaccine will do a good job protecting against Covid. My concern lies with possible long-term side effects, particularly since this is an entirely new class of vaccines. Vaccination, like all medical procedures, requires one to weigh risks against benefits. For me personally I see little benefit to being vaccinated. Covid presents minimal risk to someone like me and I'm still young enough to be concerned about possible long-term side effects from the vaccine. On the other hand, if I were already quite old or in a high risk demographic, the potential long-term risks associated with taking an untested vaccine would pale in comparison to catching Covid. It's all about the trade-offs.


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## jschies

I hope that there are no lasting side effects.. My 25 year old EMT son received the first dose, ran fever for several days, was tested for COVID 3 days later and was positive. He really thinks that the fever was just a side effect and he didn't really have it. His wife did have it at the same time. She had no other symptoms, but couldn't taste toothpaste and decided that she better get tested since we were going to be with older people. She didn't want to spread it. I hope that my son is wrong since the second vaccine's side effects are supposed to be worse! I think he gets it next week. My parents are signed up to get vaccinated at the end of January and then again in February. So I guess that those 3 people are the guinea pigs in my family.

This all needs to be over soon. It is terrible for our children in school. At my school we have parents keeping their kids home for a day or two because it was more convenient for them. One kept his son home so they could use his computer to search for video game cheat codes!! We blocked Youtube on his computer after that. Some of the kids that do have to stay home can't get good internet even with the equipment we provided to them. The high school kids of my coworkers are scared of getting sick.... There are just so many bad things about this for children, and they have discovered that the students are 3 months behind... I wonder why...


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## Damfino

Your son wouldn't be able to test positive from the vaccine. It doesn't contain any live virus. However, he could certainly get sick with Covid about the same time he received the vaccine and then he would test positive. He could very well be experiencing his symptoms from being sick as opposed to having them from the vaccine. 

It is crazy how all this is affecting school. Because of the remote area where I grew up, about half the kids in my hometown were homeschooled (there was no local school after 6th grade), so growing up I generally took it for granted that it's the parents' job to educate their children rather than the government's. I've often wondered how such an all-important task came to be so completely entrusted to the government (of all things!). I kind of hope that the current crisis leads to more creative and family-oriented methods of education. I know this won't work for everyone, but if more families can shoulder the burden of overseeing their children's education, or at least start being more closely involved rather than trusting it all to the government, I think it could be a positive change. Clearly, as you point out, some families just don't care about their kids' education. That's a real pity.


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## jschies

Yes, some just don't care. There are others that do care and are really struggling when the kids have to be home. I can't imagine trying to help several early elementary kids get their work done!! The teachers try the best that we can, but it just isn't the same as being with our students.

I do think that my son had the virus when he got the shot. I'm hoping that the second shot doesn't affect him too much.


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## luvmyherd

Both of my daughters are teachers. They are putting in much longer hours than they were before distance learning. I will say that it is improving as more teachers and students get accustomed to it. They both do some of their teaching from their classrooms which they like better than being at home.
My grandson is actually doing remote band and sometimes when my daughter is teaching he is having band and his baritone can be heard throughout the house.


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## MellonFriend

How's it going @Tanya? I noticed that you haven't posted in a little while and I wanted to make sure everything's okay.


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## Boers4ever

Yes @Tanya how are you?


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## Tanya

@Boers4ever and @MadHouse It has been such a crazy time. Gizmo went down on Friday, Destiny followed suit on Saturday. The vet ran tests and found both to have Polio. Today they are doing better, so I am sorry I haven't been online. I will pop in as soon as I have a chance. I must say thank you to this group as I did allot of reading about polio and my vet has been amazing. Both my babies are camped out in Chevani's room, and getting only hay.


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## MadHouse

Tanya said:


> @Boers4ever and @MadHouse It has been such a crazy time. Gizmo went down on Friday, Destiny followed suit on Saturday. The vet ran tests and found both to have Polio. Today they are doing better, so I am sorry I haven't been online. I will pop in as soon as I have a chance. I must say thank you to this group as I did allot of reading about polio and my vet has been amazing. Both my babies are camped out in Chevani's room, and getting only hay.


Sending prayers to you and your two babies!


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## Moers kiko boars

@Tanya So sorry for your little guys being so sick. Im glad your vet is good and is working with you! Hope they recover soon. Glad to know you are well and doing ok. Please keep us informed !


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## Goats Rock

Best wishes to you. Sending good thoughts and prayers the goaties recover quickly!


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## Damfino

Sorry your goats are sick, Tanya!


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## Boers4ever

Wow Tanya so sorry! Sounds like they’re getting good care. Hang in there!


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## GoofyGoat

@Tanya oh no, I'm so sorry they're both down. You've really had a rough bout with things lately. You're a very strong person, so I'm sure that your two babies are receiving the best of care. Take care of your self too...lots of vitamins. Sending prayers and hugs to you, gizmo and destiny!


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.


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## NDinKY

Got my second dose of Moderna yesterday afternoon and it’s kicking my butt. Like the flu without respiratory symptoms for me. Fever up to 101.8, hopefully the symptoms will go away tomorrow. The good news is my body is ready to fight the rona now.


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## NDinKY

NDinKY said:


> Got my second dose of Moderna yesterday afternoon and it's kicking my butt. Like the flu without respiratory symptoms for me. Fever up to 101.8, hopefully the symptoms will go away tomorrow. The good news is my body is ready to fight the rona now.


And today I feel normal. Just wanted to share my personal experience for anyone on the fence about being vaccinated.

Based on my colleagues and students experiences, if you haven't had covid you react to the second shot, if you have you react to the first, which makes sense since those who have had it have their immune system primed to react. Reactions are all over the place, some get flu like (mine), some upper respiratory stuff, and some GI stuff. I also had a decent headache. My time feeling bad was less than 24 hrs. Based on reports of Covid, I'll take my 24 hrs of feeling bad over covid any day!


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## Damfino

Interesting! And it makes total sense. I guess that's why my cousin Tabitha was down for 4 days straight after her first vaccination shot recently. She's a nurse and she didn't think she'd had Covid, but since every other person in her family went down with it she probably had it too and didn't know it. One of her sisters was also asymptomatic and only knew she had it because she's a flight attendant and had to get tested all the time. I guess for those two, the vaccination turned out to be worse than the illness.


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## NDinKY

Yeah, I got to see some of my students in person on Wednesday and was asking how many had gotten the vaccine and which they reacted to. It was consistent that for those who reacted to the first they’d had covid previously. 

If nothing else, this will generate a whole ton of fascinating data on vaccines. Hopefully these vaccines can handle the mutations. J&Js vaccine looks very promising, especially for getting it to 3rd world countries since it doesn’t need to be frozen.


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## Goats Rock

Maybe this should have it's own topic, but- there is a loan out there from the Federal Gov't. Its thru the US Small Business Administration- Disaster Loan Assistance. If you have small business impacted negatively by Covid 19, you can get a low interest loan for 30 years. Up to $25,000 doesn't require collateral! You keep all receipts for 3 years. 

Now, I am not a fan of gov't interference- but, with no income and a bunch of hungry goats, no
market for months last year for my milk- I am pretty much destitute. I applied for the loan and got it! ( I sold milk to a cheese maker, wineries were closed, he had too much cheese- didn't need my milk until suddenly, my kids were 6 weeks old, on moms and he wanted milk.. Couldn't wean, when I had the kids off, my milk was low and income was negligable.). 

You have to have a legitimate business, show loss, have 2019 tax return, and a few other documents. Not sure if this will help anyone, but it won't hurt to apply. 

I'm sure some won't agree with my decision, but this helps pay the hay guy, (our field yields were way down) feed goats until milk sales start in May, etc.


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## Damfino

Glad you were able to take advantage of the help! This is what government assistance is for--to help small businesses and ordinary citizens. It makes me furious when huge corporations, universities, giant nonprofits, and other undeserving rich folks take advantage of programs designed for small businesses. It makes me happy when the "little guy" is able to get something back from all the taxes they've paid into the system. We pay the government oodles of money every year and heaven knows they squander and misspend most of it. I'd much rather see the money back in the pockets of ordinary citizens where it can actually do some good!


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## Goat Whisperer

Our ADGA National show is going to look very different gthis year! Masks need to be worn 24/7, even while sleeping, temp checks daily, not allowed to watch the show ringside unless you are showing that breed (you can watch the livestream on your phone, from your pens). No spectators allowed, wine & cheese is canceled, and they are allowing early release. NO mandatory milk out. 
If anyone is interested in reading through the rules, there is a 6 page PDF in the link https://nationalshow.adga.org/covid...SfeV5lfYYprBS8JCft2jdKwgoQFXncMUXVCMu-uoptYIY

I'm so thankful that National show is still a go! So excited, even though nothing is "normal"


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## luvmyherd

Goats Rock said:


> Now, I am not a fan of gov't interference


These are not normal times. I am glad you were able to get help.


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## NDinKY

So glad you got the loan @Goats Rock , your business is the type the loans were intended for.

Bummer about the ADGA national show, I was hoping to go and watch this year since I think it is in Louisville.


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## Goat Whisperer

NDinKY said:


> So glad you got the loan @Goats Rock , your business is the type the loans were intended for.
> 
> Bummer about the ADGA national show, I was hoping to go and watch this year since I think it is in Louisville.


It is, but given the circumstances I'm very thankful the show is still a go. Now to practice sleeping with a mask on (rofl) I'm hoping our breed(s) will show earlier in the week, so we can leave and go home early! I love watching the National show. I was really looking forward to watching some of the breed judging in person, but since I'm not showing those breeds I'll just have to watch the livestream.


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## NDinKY

Goat Whisperer said:


> It is, but given the circumstances I'm very thankful the show is still a go. Now to practice sleeping with a mask on (rofl) I'm hoping our breed(s) will show earlier in the week, so we can leave and go home early! I love watching the National show. I was really looking forward to watching some of the breed judging in person, but since I'm not showing those breeds I'll just have to watch the livestream.


Lol, sleeping with masks on! Do you camp next to your goats? Any idea if spectators can livestream? We're wanting to get into showing soon, but want to see some shows first.


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## Goat Whisperer

NDinKY said:


> Lol, sleeping with masks on! Do you camp next to your goats? Any idea if spectators can livestream? We're wanting to get into showing soon, but want to see some shows first.


Oh yeah, I always stay with my goats. I just don't trust people  AND my goats get upset if I'm not with them. They are calmest if I sleep next to them.

In the years past, the National show has always had a livestream. I think it's a $15-$20 fee, it is so worth it! The National Show is a massive show, your typical spring and fall shows don't have as many goats entered and are more relaxed. You should definitely watch though, you get to see so many beautiful animals! I hardly get anything done when Nationals is going on, I'm glued to the livestream!


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## NDinKY

Awesome, I’ll definitely try to watch! I want to observe before jumping into showing.


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## Goats Rock

Regarding the ADGA show- do you have to stay the entire time, if you show? I think they are really overreacting about no spectators. Ky and Oh have some really dictatorial governors. Everyone knows the risks, use common sense and everyone should be able to make their own decisions whether to go or watch or whatever.


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## Goat Whisperer

Goats Rock said:


> Regarding the ADGA show- do you have to stay the entire time, if you show? I think they are really overreacting about no spectators. Ky and Oh have some really dictatorial governors. Everyone knows the risks, use common sense and everyone should be able to make their own decisions whether to go or watch or whatever.


As long as you state that you plan to leave early, it looks like they are Ok with early release this year! I can see why they want to limit possible exposure by not allowing spectators, just one less thing for them to worry about. Personally, I think sleeping with a mask on is going to be difficult and very much a hazard. You already have to social distance, it's not like everyone's cots are piled on top of each other! Lol If those are the rules though, I'll follow them. They've already said, violators may be subject board action. I don't want a 3-year ban from ADGA I know those who are running the show are going to deal with a lot of flack, I am not going to add to their stress! We do have hotel reservations, I'll stay with the goats overnight while the others stay in the hotel.

They aren't allowing fans either, which at first freaked me out! Can't have overheated goats! But the facilities are climate controlled, so hopefully it won't be too bad.


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## NDinKY

You might want to buy some disposable surgical masks then to sleep in. They’re no where near as awkward to breathe in, so hopefully that would be more comfortable.


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## Moers kiko boars

@ Goat Whisperer Theres is a mask gator. Its plastic, shaped like a tortise shell with large holes. It holds the mask away from your face. That might help to sleep in your mask.


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## Damfino

Well, I learned a new word today: Coronaphobia

It's when people's anxiety over Covid gets so bad that they literally make themselves ill from stress. They allow themselves to worry and become paranoid over every possible risk of exposure to themselves or loves ones, and they get so worked up scrutinizing themselves for possible symptoms that they actually give themselves high blood pressure, shortness of breath, heart palpitations, and other things that actually _do_ feel like Covid symptoms. Apparently this it's becoming more and more common for people to go to the doctor with "Covid-like" symptoms only to discover that they've given themselves these symptoms through constant anxiety!

Aside from that, I can only believe that heightened and prolonged fear and stress has led to much poorer outcomes for a lot of people who actually do come down with Covid. Stress is also well known to directly cause heart disease, which is the number one killer in the U.S. (~655,000/year every year). Yikes! Seems like a prolonged fear of Covid could actually cause people to develop a much deadlier disease than Covid itself!

I can't help but think that many people would be much better off if they weren't so frightened. As goat owners we are all too familiar with the many chronic illnesses and increased susceptibility to disease and infection that is brought on by prolonged stress. Doctors have known about the link between stress and increased risk of illness for ages. Yet no one seems to think it's a good idea to keep societal stress levels low? I still stand by what I said near the beginning of this thread that people should have been encouraged to largely go about their normal business with no shutdowns or school closures, but there should have been regular, common sense PSA's about extra hygiene, with sound information about who is most at-risk and steps they can take to help mitigate these risks (acknowledging that nothing in life is completely without risk and this is actually ok). Instead, alarm bells were constantly sounding about how virtually _everyone_ is at severe risk and we need to do this, that, and the other thing to _eliminate_ all risk!!! That kind of constant hyperbole is not helpful. It might make people more cautious at first, but keep at it and eventually they become either paranoid or indifferent.


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## Tanya

Here, the vaccines are single dose. so far only hospital workers have gotten it. I refuse to take it. My body has built its own anti-bodies. I gave a pint of my blood for them to look at. But that is it. I had it 3 times to varying degrees...


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## Tanya

This is how Gizmo and I are dealing with the slogs of the virus that is not to be named. Enjoying the sunset in the quiet of the late afternoon. And my barefeet are warm cause he decided to become my slippers...


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## IHEARTGOATS

Goat Whisperer said:


> As long as you state that you plan to leave early, it looks like they are Ok with early release this year! I can see why they want to limit possible exposure by not allowing spectators, just one less thing for them to worry about. Personally, I think sleeping with a mask on is going to be difficult and very much a hazard. You already have to social distance, it's not like everyone's cots are piled on top of each other! Lol If those are the rules though, I'll follow them. They've already said, violators may be subject board action. I don't want a 3-year ban from ADGA I know those who are running the show are going to deal with a lot of flack, I am not going to add to their stress! We do have hotel reservations, I'll stay with the goats overnight while the others stay in the hotel.
> 
> They aren't allowing fans either, which at first freaked me out! Can't have overheated goats! But the facilities are climate controlled, so hopefully it won't be too bad.


I think Nigerians are last, so it's still going to be a long week.
Why don't you get you one of those cots that has the tent over you. I don't think anyone could see you don't have a mask on.


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## luvmyherd

Well, anybody else find it hard to believe a year has gone by since this thread was started? I went back and skimmed a lot of the old posts. It is interesting to see how some of the predictions and worries have materialized and some have gone another way. The ones that really stand out are how we were told the lockdowns would be 3 weeks or so.
My daughters are still teaching remotely with a possibility of students in the classroom next month. We are still shopping only once a month. At least most of the shelves are fully stocked now.
I am glad we took our trips to Arkansas and Washington last year. We followed all of the guidelines and then some and nobody got infected. (We haven't had the flu or even a cold all year either.) Our biggest hope is for things to be enough better so we can visit our grandchildren in Michigan by the end of summer.
We figure we will be staying home for spring and on into summer probably so we are planting a garden and thinking of chicks again and possibly some turkey poults. 
We have only been able to visit Rod's mom 3 times. We are close to entering our Red tier so we should be able to see her with and appointment soon.
We are over 65 and can get an appointment for a vaccine but are not in a big hurry. We are waiting for more evidence as it is rolled out.


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## Damfino

Seems like a pretty long year to me. Lost over a dozen friends and family members in the last year (approximately 1/month), but not to Covid. Me and almost everyone I know had the virus at some point. The ones who were sick last winter/spring did not get sick during the recent "wave" and the ones who weren't sick last winter got sick this winter. That tells me that natural immunity is generally pretty good and lasts at least a year, which is certainly promising.

Looking back, I now think the April "wave" was directly caused by the lockdown that happened in March. I believe the "lockdown" was the biggest single "super-spreader" event in all of 2020. Instead of locking down as intended, people panicked and spread out all over the countryside in order to buy out the last toilet paper and ground beef. Our little country store was inundated with strangers from mid-March to mid-April, and every other little town saw the same thing. City people fled to the country to buy out our supplies and even vacation away from home in a less crowded area. When small stores in the cities were forced to close, everyone packed into big box stores. For six weeks after "lockdown", every store was jammed with people like it was Black Friday. Our grocery store clerks had to arm themselves to break up fights and prevent threats, thefts, and harassment.

Some long standing local businesses went under, but others are doing ok. Our saddle club is poised for another very busy summer. I know a few people who've had the vaccine but most don't want it. When Biden's mask mandate on federal property went into effect, lots of people stopped wearing masks in the post office. Another "Law of Unintended Consequences" I suppose. Red necks don't like being ordered around so they get rebellious. Mask use was almost universal in the fall, but it started going by the wayside when we all noticed it wasn't doing any good and case numbers were going nuts AFTER we all donned masks. Now it's kind of back to the way it was last summer before the mandate--some wear them, some don't, and no one enforces (at least not where I live). Cases and deaths keep dropping. Turns out Colorado fared very well compared to most states. 2020 was a crazy year for sure, but hopefully things will be a bit more normal in 2021.


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## Tanya

Yeah. Its been a very long and difficult year.


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## Damfino

Something I never commented on but that has struck me as rather absurd during this past year has been the porta-potty phenomenon. Sanitization rules for public restrooms are so stringent that many establishments can't follow them without hiring another worker who does nothing except clean bathrooms all day. So rather than go to this trouble and expense, they shut down the restrooms. This got me in trouble on the way back from South Dakota. I stopped at three different places before I found an open restroom, and the line was 10 people long! I was so desperate by then that I came about an inch from running outside and squatting behind the building! I found out later that a lot of people were starting to relieve themselves behind gas stations and it was creating an entirely new kind of public safety hazard. So gas stations started installing porta-potties last fall. Outhouses apparently don't fall under the same stringent sanitation rules as indoor facilities. I remain rather astounded that no one in charge saw this coming. I had to use an icky gas station porta-potty recently and it reminded me of how silly and arbitrary some of these rules have been. I sometimes forget about the craziness because I live a fairly insulated life in a community that abandoned most of the rules months ago. My occasional forays into the "real world" sometimes result in a bit of a shock. ("Why am I using a filthy, frozen outdoor toilet standing right beside the gas pumps when I know for a fact that there is a perfectly serviceable toilet with soap and running water and a little bit of privacy right inside the building?!?")


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## Goatzrule

I have seen that same problem. I travel to and from home often during the pandemic and a lot of the rules they implemented is only causing worse issues.


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## happybleats

Can I open my eyes now? 🙈 I'm so ready for this to be over. I'm so sick of this ridiculous covid junk. Like you Damfino..im pretty isolated out here and only am reminded when I have to go to town but I get to fly out to Alaska see my daughter and grand kids next month. I'm told I have to have a current covid test and wear a mask the whole flight ugh. I can't breath well due to unrelated illness so this will be a long hard flight. Thankfully they are not making a vaccine mandatory to fly or I never get to see my grandkids!!


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## Damfino

Goatzrule said:


> I have seen that same problem. I travel to and from home often during the pandemic and a lot of the rules they implemented is only causing worse issues.


I know, right? Because using an outdoor toilet that gets serviced once a week by waste management is sooooo much more sanitary than using an indoor toilet that gets cleaned once or twice a day! /sarcasm

Seriously, the people who come up with these rules never seem to anticipate the first thing about actual, real life human behavior. It was funny looking back over this thread a few weeks ago because in early days I thought wearing masks might be a good idea. Then I saw people actually wearing masks and my first thought was, "Oh my goodness... all of these people are going to infect themselves."

Sure enough, mask use goes up and cases not only refuse to go down, they just keep going UP! I'm convinced that unless people take personal ownership of wearing a mask properly, they're just making the problem worse. Mask wearing should only be suggested for those with the ability to wear and handle their mask correctly.

@happybleats
Have a nice trip to see your grandkids! I've never been to Alaska but I hear it's beautiful!


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## luvmyherd

I so agree with the need for masks to be proper and to be worn properly. We went to a Disney Resort event and they were adamant about people wearing masks properly. However, they were selling cute Disney themed masks that were thin and useless. As a decoration they were fine but only over a proper mask. (It has been over 2 weeks and no one in our party got sick.)
Now we are planning a Hawaii trip in July with our daughter's family. We agreed to go before we read the travel rules. (dumb) As of right now we have to have a negative test just before. There is a whole schedule we have to set up for reminders. Who knows what it will be by July. Just one of the ways this thing is still in our lives as we try to do more normal things.








I am not even complaining really. I know an isolated place like Hawaii has to take extreme precautions. I just wish we did not have to go until it is all over. (Sadly, our SIL's health is failing and we are getting him there to see his son and grandchildren.)


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## Tanya

I feel you. Masks here must be double material. We may not wear buffs or paper masks either. I don't go out much, but when I do, I forget to put on my mask. my daughter reminds me continuosly.... ugh... what an erritation.


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## Goats Rock

In our county of 100,000 people- 168 have died they claim from Covid. I think those are pretty good odds. Yet the Health dept.
is screaming about the high numbers. 93% were in nursing homes the first few months of 2020. Masks? I have one, somewhere-
not seeing that it does anyone much good. They want everyone to get the "shots" but neglect to tell you where and when! I am 
so over the nonsense!


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## Moers kiko boars

What I just really love about the vaccine, people who are vaccinated think they are immune. Wrong. Sorry. They have 1 strain they have resistance to, there is only 15 more strains out their. This is such a side show circus. Look at India. Its going to be really interesting in a year. Lets see where the pooulation of Michigan is then.


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## jschies

We have a few school districts here that stopped requiring masks as of March 10th. Six weeks later, the numbers are still going down, not up. I keep hoping that my school district will notice and let us stop wearing them. We don't have to wear masks anywhere else anymore!


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## Cedarwinds Farm

I have to say, one thing I really appreciate about the vaccine coming out is that people are less frightened, now. Whether it's really effective or not, at least people aren't living in fear, and I'm with the guy who said 'we have nothing to fear but fear, itself.'
I quit wearing a mask. So has almost everyone else in my area. I try not to go places if I'm sick, anyway, and I don't cough or sneeze on people, always wash my hands after blowing my nose, etc., so I figured I wasn't too likely to spread Covid to anyone and I really did not think the cotton bandana I was wearing would protect me from germs. I have had fewer sinus issues and my sensitive skin is much happier, now, after 'unmasking'. Wearing a mask was fairly uncomfortable for me, though I'm certain not as bad for me as for some others.
It may have been weirdly fun and surreal to go to the store on rainy days looking like an old west movie outlaw in my big hat, waterproof duster, and with a bandana covering my face...but yeah...
I have more interactions with people when they can see my face. One of my first times shopping without a mask, I talked to SO MANY people just standing in the check out lane, etc., and realized how scarily easy it had been to almost dehumanize people and sort of just ignore them when we'd all had our faces covered. I don't go out of my way to talk to people in the grocery store, but smiling and then saying a few words to the people around me just comes naturally when I can see their faces and they can see mine.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> What I just really love about the vaccine, people who are vaccinated think they are immune. Wrong. Sorry. They have 1 strain they have resistance to, there is only 15 more strains out their. This is such a side show circus. Look at India. Its going to be really interesting in a year. Lets see where the pooulation of Michigan is then.


There are way more than 15 strains out there, but nearly all of them have a very similar spike protein which the mRNA vaccines are programmed to target. So in theory it should work against every strain of Covid that has the spike protein. To the few strains that have a different style of spike, the vaccines aren't going to work as well, but those strains are not yet common. I'm not interested in getting vaccinated myself at this time, but it will be fascinating to see how it works out over the coming years. I'm pretty sure they're going to improve it quite a bit so the side effects aren't so rough, and I'm hoping nothing nasty comes down the pipeline from it in the next 5-10 years, but that all remains to be seen. I'm optimistic but also deeply suspicious (because that's how I am about most things!).


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## Damfino

Coronavirus comedy of the day: Someone sent me an absolutely bizarre video the other day. This lady on YouTube was hysterical about supposed side effects she'd observed in women who were hanging out around vaccinated people. She said vaccinated people were affecting the hormones of women around them and causing unusual periods, miscarriages, and periods starting up again in post-menopausal women. So basically unvaccinated me will end up with hormone problems from hanging out around my vaccinated friends and relatives. What??

First of all, I'm not sure what anyone is supposed to actually _do_ with that information. Cower in our closets for the rest of our miserable lives because vaccinated people might zap us with their zombie rays? I'm sick and tired of people on every side telling me to hide in fearful isolation from absolutely everything!

Second of all, I don't doubt this lady's observations. What I seriously doubt are her conclusions. She's correlated hormone problems to the wrong thing. We've had a whole year now of heightened stress and fearfulness. Stress is very well documented as a cause of multiple physical problems, but those problems take time to manifest. This is exactly the right timing for stress-induced hormone trouble to begin surfacing all over the place. It also coincidentally happens to be when people are just starting to get vaccinated. It's actually too soon to see the problems she's reporting because right now there still aren't _that_ many people vaccinated, and all of them are very, very recent. So like I said, I don't doubt this lady's observations, but I think she pegged the wrong cause.

I believe over the next few years we're going to see a LOT of extra health problems cropping up throughout the population because of the long-term stress people were under in 2020. No doubt some people will attribute these widespread health problems to the vaccine but I think they will be missing the elephant in the room. The vaccine fear mongering is no different from the folks on the other side telling us we all urgently need to be vaccinated immediately or we'll doom the planet to certain destruction from everlasting Covid monsters. BOTH sides need to get a grip. There is sound reason for caution concerning any new medical breakthrough, just as there is sound reason for caution about a pandemic, but there's no reason at all to spread panic about either one. Keep calm, watch what happens, and decide what is best for you and your situation. There's just no reason for everyone to try to force others to see eye to eye.


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## luvmyherd

I absolutely love that you have very strong opinions and are more than happy to let others have theirs.
Of all the crazy things; we may end up getting the vaccine because we are going to Hawaii in July. The timing is not our own; our SIL's health is failing and we are getting him there to see his son and grandchildren.
We still haven't decided for sure. We have waited to see how the rollout went. Not that great but it will take years to actually know. We are almost 70 so we are at higher risk of serious symptoms from Covid. We do know that this "vaccine" will not make us immune but hopefully reduce symptoms. So we will most likely still need to isolate before the flight so we do not get a positive test. That may change by July so we shall see.


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## Damfino

luvmyherd said:


> I absolutely love that you have very strong opinions and are more than happy to let others have theirs.
> Of all the crazy things; we may end up getting the vaccine because we are going to Hawaii in July. The timing is not our own; our SIL's health is failing and we are getting him there to see his son and grandchildren.
> We still haven't decided for sure. We have waited to see how the rollout went. Not that great but it will take years to actually know. We are almost 70 so we are at higher risk of serious symptoms from Covid. We do know that this "vaccine" will not make us immune but hopefully reduce symptoms. So we will most likely still need to isolate before the flight so we do not get a positive test. That may change by July so we shall see.


If you are in good health then the odds are in your favor that the vaccine will make you immune, and that's a wonderful thing. Ironically, people in poor health are less likely to benefit from a vaccine because their bodies aren't as capable of producing effective antibodies. Still, some protection is better than none at all, and we can't know ahead of time which people will produce antibodies and which won't. Most will to at least some extent. I hope you make it to Hawaii and can have a nice visit with family.


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## toth boer goats

The vaccine has too many flaws and not FDA approved.


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## Tanya

Vaccines dont make you immune but help you build up anti bodies against a virus.


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## Damfino

For all practical purposes, effective antibodies = immunity. It's how we were able to eventually eliminate smallpox. The vaccine caused people to create effective antibodies which rendered them immune to the disease so it could no longer spread.


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## luvmyherd

Here's a kicker! We went to the Dr for routine checkups.The protocols were strict with masks and temperatures etc. When the Dr came in he was masked and shielded.
Well, he needed to look down my throat so my mask had to come off. Then his shield, then his mask so the DH took off his mask. The rest of the appointment was maskless and nobody seemed the least bit worried. The Dr seemed unperturbed when we said we had been to Disneyland and were going to Hawaii. Our lack of vaccinations was not even mentioned. It was kind of a don't ask don't tell but it reinforced some of my opinions.
Then, the lady doing my mammo asked about my vaccine status. When I told her no the 3rd time I hinted that I might be planning to. She said she didn't care about that but a recent vaccine can cause a false positive.

(Also, no breast cancer, no diabetes, the lump on my throat is nothing to worry about.)


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## happybleats

Glad your test were all good iluvlilly!!
I'm flying to Alaska with my hubs to see my daughter, SIL and grandkids got to wear mask while at the airport and on the flight. I'm a no mask wearer. I hate them. Find the hard to breath..irritating to listen to someone talk through one. I had to see my eye dr and it was ridiculous..listening to everyone's muffled voices. I'm ok if you want to wear one, I'm ok if you want the vaccine....what I'm tired of is being made to wear masks or made to feel guilty I'd you don't get the vaccine. I don't trust the government and I don't trust the vaccine. I won't do it. But I will wear my dumb mask so I can see my kids. Okie dokie..rant over. 😁


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## Tanya

Yay om all the negatives


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## luvmyherd

happybleats said:


> Glad your test were all good iluvlilly!!
> I'm flying to Alaska with my hubs to see my daughter, SIL and grandkids got to wear mask while at the airport and on the flight. I'm a no mask wearer. I hate them. Find the hard to breath..irritating to listen to someone talk through one. I had to see my eye dr and it was ridiculous..listening to everyone's muffled voices. I'm ok if you want to wear one, I'm ok if you want the vaccine....what I'm tired of is being made to wear masks or made to feel guilty I'd you don't get the vaccine. I don't trust the government and I don't trust the vaccine. I won't do it. But I will wear my dumb mask so I can see my kids. Okie dokie..rant over. 😁


I am so with you. If you don't wear a mask; please stay 6 feet back. That is just respectful unless you know the other person doesn't care. Get the vax if you want; do not if you don't. But don't judge me unless I am actually endangering you.


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## happybleats

Yes. I think there needs to be respectful ess for both sides of this. I'm responsible when in public. I note the 6 feet marks at the grocery store...I let others go through a door first and such..im not afraid of covid.. I just want to respect that others maybe more vulnerable to it. My sister had it and ended up in the hospital..alone! it scared her lungs..my daughter had it and it only lasted 4 days and she was over it. You just never know how it will effect others..so yes...be respectful to that.


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## Tanya

Happybleats. I agree with you. Its just getting others to think the same way.


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## Tanya

AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH what have I done to deserve this????? 5th time. Yes you read right. The 5th time.... and I have antibodies... and its frikin killing me..... Aaaagggghhhhh


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## Iluvlilly!

oh no I'm so sorry to hear that @Tanya  Hope you get better soon🤗


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## Tanya

Iluvlilly! said:


> oh no I'm so sorry to hear that @Tanya  Hope you get better soon🤗


Oh I intend on it. Vit C just like my goaties...


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## ksalvagno

I hope you get better soon. Hope you do tons of vitamin C.


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## luvmyherd

I am sorry Tanya. May you be100% soon.
We are visiting our son in Ft. Bragg. The infection rate is very low here. Still, people walking on the beach and around town are careful. They are either masked or walk out and around when passing others. I feel pretty comfortable here.


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## Boers4ever

Hey @Tanya take Vit D3. It helps to boost the immune system and will help you get over it and not catch it again. So sorry your going through this again. That stinks.


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## Tanya

Thank ýou.


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## Moers kiko boars

Ok @Tanya ...lets get you OVER this covid 💩! You are too important to keep getting this. Can I suggest Turmeric also? Along with what others have suggested. Garlic pills always help clean up the blood. Please take care of yourself. Sending prayers.


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## Tanya

Ok. So here is my 2x daily smoothy.... every herb under the sun. Garlic and ginger. Vit c, d, b and A and penicilin. Omega 3. Kale and spinnache


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## goathiker

Add elderberry syrup. Oh, and every cold sniffle, or allergy you have is getting diagnosed as covid to bump the numbers. The snap testing they use doesn't work because of the cycles they run. Even the creator of the test says it was never developed for the use they are putting it to.

Segregation has started here. This is a really bad direction for the country to go, but I guess there always has to be someone who just isn't as good as the others...


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## Tanya

I will source alderberry syryp. I have colds and flu meds in there too. I must say here in South Africa the testing is spicific. We are not really just saying everything is covid. 
I am sure though that this is just another strain again. Afterall. Our borders are not closed.


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## goathiker

So sorry I completely forgot you were over there. You're in the line of fire so to speak. 
So much bad information from everywhere. American news is showing supposed huge outbreaks and deaths in India and yet my several friends in that area are showing completely different things. They say that nothing is happening. They are people I've known for a long time, they have no reason to lie. 

There's reasons why a virus would mutate quickly in SA, I can't bring them up here though.


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## Tanya

I know @goathiker


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## Tanya

From A Doctors' group RSA

The virus is back, this time with more energy, tactics and camouflage.
We don't cough, No fever, it's joint pain, weakness,
Loss of appetite and Covid pneumonia!
Of course, the death rate is higher, it takes less time to get to the extreme. Sometimes no symptoms ... let's be careful ...
The strain is not domiciled in our nasopharyngeal region!
It directly affects the lungs, which means window periods are shortened.
I have seen a number of patients without fever, but an x-ray report shows moderate chest pneumonia!
The nasal swab is often negative for COVID19!

There are more and more false pharyngeal nasal tests COVID19) ... which means that the virus spreads directly to the lungs causing acute respiratory distress due to viral pneumonia! This explains why it has become acute and more fatal !!!

Be careful, avoid crowded places, wear a face mask, wash your hands often.

WAVE more deadly than the first. So we have to be very careful and take every precaution.
Please become an alert communicator among friends and family ...


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## Goats Rock

They have the fully vaccinated vs the unvaccinated. The problem is, if you don't have a doctor (I don't), it is difficult to find anywhere to get the stupid 
vaccine, even if you want it. They are now saying that you don't need a mask if fully vaccinated, but have to show proof of your status. So, basically,
if you wear a mask, you are a "bad guy" because you have not been vaccinated, but if you don't wear one and cant show proof that you are vaccinated, 
then you are a bio-hazard! AGGGHHHH!


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## ksalvagno

Many stores in Ohio will not be asking to see proof of vaccine. HIPPA laws are still in effect. At least in the Columbus area.


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## goathiker

No,they can't legally ask if you're vaccinated. Most stores here don't care anymore and those that do with just not get my money. 
There's stores that won't let vaccinated people in as well. The salons can't wax vaccinated people and won't even try anymore. 

Most people here are in full on rebellion lol. It's good to see that the California transplants haven't taken over completely.


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## Tanya

Ugh! I now have to be vaccinated because I am only 1 of 7 people who has had this more than three times and shown anti bodies and recovered..
Bladiblabla.
I hate needles... _she says in the smallest goat voice she can muster_ isnt there a version of the vaccine in pill form? 😓🐐


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## FizzyGoats

I’m neither for nor against the vaccine. I thinks it’s a medical decision and therefore a personal choice. What terrifies me is the social pressure to get it and the villainization of those who prefer to remain unvaccinated. I can see the logic of getting vaccinated. I can see the logic of not wanting it and not receiving it. What I can’t understand is why I can only find a handful of people who think they way I do. I feel like I’m insane or the world is. Neither option is particularly appealing.


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## Goats Rock

FizzyGoats, I agree with you. Both decisions are scary- too much disinformation and outright lies out there!


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## Moers kiko boars

I agree. It amazes me how all other vaccines are tested for years. Go through 4 phases to complete the "safety" for humans requirements. Yet a billionaire, and multibillion companies can whip up a concoction in less than 6 months.
And Oui la...its a miracle cure. With all the conflicting information in medical journals and studies. There is a definate difference in the "News" and medical results. 
Whatever you choose, please be respectful and be cautiouse around others. At least keep some distance. Keep washing your hands as the least you can do to prevent spread.


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## Goats Rock

I'll just continue to stay in the barn! Kid 103 was just born- With all the bottles and stupid moms this year, I couldn't be social if I wanted to! ha ha.
I just realized that we had 90 born since April 4. Yep, no problems with social distancing here!


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## toth boer goats

Get better soon.


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## FizzyGoats

Well I feel a bit less insane now. 

I don’t know how you handle so many babies @Goats Rock. You must just live with them now. 

@Moers kiko boars the funny thing is, people used to think I was a germaphobe before all this. I washed my hands a lot. I cleaned off handles of grocery carts, opened/closed doors so much without using my hands so that my kids dubbed my methods the “butt shut” and the “tush push.” I’ve always wanted strangers to stay six feet away (not for germ reasons, I just have a big bubble of personal space). But now it’s the norm and so much more. I’m respectful, like you, either way. If someone wants to wear a hazmat suit around town, I’m not going to judge. You have to do what feels right to you. And what might be right for one could be wrong for another. And we don’t have to judge or dislike each other or think the other is uninformed or ignorant just because we don’t share the same personal wrongs and rights. It all makes me a bit sad to see yet another division between people deepening to an “us vs them” mentality.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Ugh! I now have to be vaccinated because I am only 1 of 7 people who has had this more than three times and shown anti bodies and recovered..
> Bladiblabla.
> I hate needles... _she says in the smallest goat voice she can muster_ isnt there a version of the vaccine in pill form? 😓🐐


It's bizarre that you keep coming down with Covid. If you're one of only 7 known repetitive cases then it's clearly a pretty uncommon thing even in your country where it sounds like there are loads of variants. I hope the vaccine helps!

On a different but also somewhat related note, I read an interesting study several months ago about a man who came down with Covid sometime last year in March or April. He had an autoimmune disorder so treatments were not very effective. Nevertheless, treatments kept him alive for several months during which his symptoms would subside and then come back. He eventually died sometime in the fall, but during the time when he was alive, the virus went through many drastic mutations in his body. Some of them were similar to the variations coming out of South Africa and the UK. I wonder how often it happens where a single person with an immune disorder has the virus for a long time, giving it a chance to mutate over and over?

Modern medicine brings with it many amazing, life-saving miracles, but the other side is that it also brings with it a certain danger in which viruses (and bacteria) can become more deadly and resistant to treatments because of our ability to keep people alive beyond their natural capacity. I think about this with all the wonderful antibiotics which at one time were able to work miracles. But over time they have become less effective to the point where entire classes of antibiotics no longer work on things they once cured. New and stronger antibiotics have to be used as pathogens adapt. It's a fascinating process. I sometimes wonder where it all will lead.


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## Damfino

FizzyGoats said:


> I’m neither for nor against the vaccine. I thinks it’s a medical decision and therefore a personal choice. What terrifies me is the social pressure to get it and the villainization of those who prefer to remain unvaccinated. I can see the logic of getting vaccinated. I can see the logic of not wanting it and not receiving it. What I can’t understand is why I can only find a handful of people who think they way I do. I feel like I’m insane or the world is. Neither option is particularly appealing.


The over-pressuring to get the vaccine is one of the top things that makes me suspicious of it. I don't like high-pressure salesmanship, sermonizing, or guilt trips. I feel the same way you do about it. These are personal decisions and there are very good reasons to get vaccinated and very good reasons to be cautious about it.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@FizzyGoats. I agree! What works for 1,,,may not work for another. Im glad you were always sanitary. Thats awesome. Ive always been careful to keep my distance. And to stay away from croupy kids and adults that dont cover their face when they cough or sneeze. I like @Goats Rock ideas also. I pretty much stay with my bottle baby & with my other goats. I would rather sit back and allow others to be guinea pigs for Pharma.


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## luvmyherd

I have been biting my tongue for quite a while now. PLEASE stop insulting people from California.


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## AndersonRanch

luvmyherd said:


> I have been biting my tongue for quite a while now. PLEASE stop insulting people from California.


Thank you! And I agree!
I’m really not huge on conspiracy theories but I don’t get the whole pushing for the vaccine and honestly has me stepping back and trying to figure out why. Here if you get the vaccine you get a free beer and dinner. There are other places that are offering to pay for part of their collage. It’s just all kinda odd to me. If I don’t want the vaccine why do they care if I want to risk it or not? Enough people have had the vaccine now that it shouldn’t totally swamp hospitals. So nope I will not take it just yet and probably won’t for a few years. They are now pushing kids to take it and that one is sad because as of right now kids are exempt from needing the vaccine to go on a plane. My son if he wins his next competition in state gets to go to regionals and would be flying there but not if he needs the vaccine. I will NOT allow it. Which mean I would either have to drive him across the country or he misses out on it. I’m really hoping this all happens before the start making kids get it. 
Funny story though, it’s rodeo season, the one rodeo in our area is THE rodeo and has always been the busy one. They said you could only come if you are vaccinated. There was a lot of empty seats and they flat out said it wasn’t even worth having. The one in my town has always been just this little thing but they had no rules about coming. That place was packed! I thought that was great. A lot of people that have even gotten the vaccine do not like the idea that they are putting restrictions on if you can attend something or not, and yes this is even in California


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## Tanya

See. I dont think a quick fix will help any one. Yes I keep coming down with it. But I luve very issolated. Even my staff here at the sanctuary home echool like I do order food to be delivered at the gate for humans andcanimals and only o e person dealscwith any deliveries of animals that come in. And even then its over a crate that is 6 foot long. Everything is done online. Even my vet looks like a hazmat scientist when he comes.
I dont think I have covid. I think I have flu that just stays. My imune system is compromised in general and no vaccine can fix that. So no. No matter what. I am no guinea pig for no govèrnment.


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## FizzyGoats

Yep, the relentless pressure to get it concerns me. It just feels off. Like something out of the start of a bad dystopian novel. I know many people who have received the vaccine and are all for it and I totally support their decision, so far that support for me wanting to wait has rarely been mutual. So if you’re reading this and have gotten it or are going to be vaccinated, I’m not against that at all. Do what your gut says is right. 

My brother who is in the Army was strong armed into it, and he’s way more suspicious of it than I am. Basically, he couldn’t go on leave if he didn’t get it and could only come to work on certain days, and the higher ups said it’d be too difficult to evaluate any soldier for promotion if they couldn’t be at work everyday, and he’s up for promotion soon. 

@AndersonRanch I hope your son is able to go to regionals. These are the rules that really get under my skin. There is no way to know how this will affect young people in the long run, so wanting to take a cautious approach seems reasonable. How are we getting so railroaded? Im befuddled. Absolutely befuddled.


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## happybleats

I just flew from Texas to Alaska and back and although vaccinations were not required..masks were. Ugh. I complied because I wanted to see my grandbabies. All through the airport announcements were made continuously about wearing a mask..cover mouth and nose..what types of masks were acceptable..and vaccinated or not..masks must be worn. So
at this time @AndersonRanch vaccines are not required to fly 😉 let's hope that sticks.



Goats Rock said:


> I'll just continue to stay in the barn! Kid 103 was just born- With all the bottles and stupid moms this year, I couldn't be social if I wanted to! ha ha.
> I just realized that we had 90 born since April 4. Yep, no problems with social distancing here!


Yes..we all need more goats (and some Alpacas lol) to keep us on farm!!. That's a good selling point for hubs lol


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## Moers kiko boars

@luvmyherd ..Anything I said was USA wide. Iwas not implying California at all. Sorry if you thought I was. I have a WONDERFUL friend on Cali. Ohhh and I own a Califirnia gal ( no bikini) and Chickasaw....both from Cali


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## Damfino

Colorado lifted its mask mandate last Thursday and all the local stores immediately ripped down their signs. I had to get groceries that day and I was getting checked out by a new high school age employee wearing the typical dour teenage scowl on his face: "Here I am bagging groceries when I could be texting and making TicToc videos!"

I, on the other hand, am an incurable smiler. I tend to beam at everyone wherever I go and this mask thing has seriously cramped my style! The kid scanned the last of my groceries and looked up to see me grinning at him. 

"I just love this!" I said.

He stared blankly at me for a moment and then slowly a smile crept over his face. He may not realize it, but he has a wide, toothy, beautiful smile that lights up a room. I loved that little exchange and I hope he enjoyed it as much as I did. Maybe it will encourage him to look up and beam at the customers a bit more. It's high time we rediscover our lovely smiles! The world can always use more happy people--especially teenagers!


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## FizzyGoats

Damfino said:


> He stared blankly at me for a moment and then slowly a smile crept over his face. He may not realize it, but he has a wide, toothy, beautiful smile that lights up a room. I loved that little exchange and I hope he enjoyed it as much as I did. Maybe it will encourage him to look up and beam at the customers a bit more. It's high time we rediscover our lovely smiles! The world can always use more happy people--especially teenagers!


You write like an actual writer.  Felt like I was there in the moment.


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## toth boer goats

There are too many bad things being said of the after effects of the vaccines and maybe what it does to our bodies in the future.
It has been known to give people tremors or kill people.
Some say it sterilizes, population control. And even someday will control our minds. 
Doesn’t sound good.

Not sure what is fact but that is what is circulating. Pretty terrifying, plus now they are paying people to get them.
Now trying to make it mandatory.
Which is ridiculous. A big red flag!!!!

The testing of it isn’t much better, it may have wormy micronizims(spelling) things in it and the masks. Which can cause issues in the future.
Scary stuff.


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## happybleats

Pam I think you are right when you say we don't know enough! We don't know what is true and what is hype or scare hype. It needs more study...and way more time to see the effects of it. And yes, huge red flag the way they are pushing it on us.


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## luvmyherd

Moers kiko boars:
I was very tired when I posted yesterday. When I was in bed I got to thinking that the person who posted above me might think I meant them specifically. I did not. I am sorry for any confusion.
There have been, however, a number of posts on this thread criticizing California and Californians. I was just hoping that in general, people could not be so specific about a place many of us here call home.









As to the topic at hand. The pressure to get the vaccine is probably the main reason we still have not gotten it. A blanket "it is safe and effective; trust us" is not enough. The FDA has approved many things that were later recalled. How about some honest numbers and facts and less advertising and ridicule. Even without conspiracy theories (true or not) there are plenty of scientific reasons to be doubtful.
Something that really gets my 🐐 is; if a celebrity is against the vac they tell us *not* to listen to them as they are not doctors nor scientists. But when a celebrity gets the vac it becomes an endorsement and we_ *should *_listen to them.









That being said, we have looked at it from all sides we are getting it. Mainly because of our age and the fact that the virus could cause us much more damage than the vaccine. We actually consulted with a Naturopath who is mostly anti-vax and she agreed with us.
It needs to remain optional but I do hope that people will respect the decisions and the space of others. I had a lady in a public restroom (where masked were required and she was maskless) mutter "mask" at me under her breath. I found that totally uncalled for. Just stay 6 feet away from me and I will not say a word.


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## toth boer goats

California does have it’s bad reputation, but believe me, there are many good people still here fighting the fight.
Cannot go into politics but, California people know what I am talking about.


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## Tanya

Allot of scary things are being said . For and Against.


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## Goats Rock

In Ohio, if you get the vaccine, you can get entered into a $1 million dollar lottery! Guaranteed winner, only those that enter will be drawn. 
Why are they pushing so hard? DH got his 2 shots, he is over 70 and has emphysema, so for him, Covid would kill him. So far, my 
lungs seem to work, so I am still on the fence with the shots.


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## Tanya

I have to say. My chest feels worse than the first time I had it. This is exactly how my husband and sister discribed feeling.


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## luvmyherd

Tanya, I am really sorry you feel so poorly.


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## FizzyGoats

I hope you get feeling better, Tanya. You have a lot to deal with all at once.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im still wondering who got the Bill Gates covid 19 vaccines with the computer chip.in them? That was rapidly hushed, but the vaccines are almost mandatory. Just wondering what big pharma co. Is making all the profit from? Whos making Gates richer? And humans easier to track?


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## ksalvagno

As far as I know, Gates is with Pfizer and Fauci is with Moderna. Both stand to make millions.


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## Damfino

Who needs vaccines with chips in them when everyone on the planet has a cell phone? As far as tracking goes, it's already game over. 

Besides, it would be way too easy to find a chip installed via vaccine--people would be scanning themselves, finding chips, and suing right and left. Much too obvious and much too risky to install chips against people's will and without their knowledge. You have to make people willingly opt into tracking, which is why cell phones are so brilliant. I don't own a cell phone but I do have a computer, a landline, a credit card, and an email address so I'm not exactly flying under the radar. My movements are tracked every time I swipe my credit card somewhere, and I fully believe that the government collects data on my phone calls, emails, and bank transactions. No one needs a tracking chip, especially if they have a cell phone. It would be unnecessary redundancy.

That said, I gotta love how Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson have had major class action lawsuits against them in recent years. I'm sure they learned their lesson and now have the public's best interests at heart rather than their bottom line! Seeing them pay out billions of dollars in damages really instills confidence in their products! /sarcasm


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## HoosierShadow

Our state mask mandate ends on June 11th. But many places are easing mask mandates for vaccinated people. Ummm... how do they know people are not vaccinated are they going to card everyone who doesn't wear a mask? I mean seriously....
I have not been vaccinated and am still on the fence about it. I worry about getting the virus, but I also worry how the vaccine will affect me. I talked to our family doctor about this this the other day when my daughter had an appt and my daughter mentioned wanting to get the shots. The doctor said the research on the vaccine has been around for years, but it had to be tweaked for this strain, so it's not like they had to start from scratch. She also said that it is our choice and while most people in the office received theirs, she is not rushing to get her kids their shots any time soon, but that the rumors about sterilization are not accurate. I have friends that see fertility specialists trying to have kids and their doctors encouraged them to have the vaccines. So our not getting it yet isn't about politics, but just making sure it's really safe and effective.

At my part time job, I am working very little at the moment, only a couple of days a week and they are giving employees $100 if they show proof of getting the vaccine. In order for us to work maskless we have to show the shot record to human resources. They are not buying me off so quickly....
I will say going to a goat event this past weekend and it being a normal atmosphere was very nice and much needed. I was also at another event a few weeks ago with something like 50,000 people and none of the spectators in the stands were wearing masks....


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## AndersonRanch

Lol if I wanted to be on the run for whatever reason it’s not that hard to toss a cell phone, cut up a credit card and not log onto a computer. Heck come summer time and that’s kinda how I live anyways. But I probably couldn’t survive chopping my arm off at the shoulder without going to the hospital and being found. As for scanning yourself even with the animal chips you can’t get one brand chip and scan it with another brands scanner so IF this was happening I highly doubt they would have a scanner out for the public to see if it’s for real or not. I’m not saying I totally buy into it or anything but at if they came out tomorrow and admitted they have done so it wouldn’t shock me either. 
Another thing that bothers me about Gates being up in all this is he openly says how he thinks the world is over populated and we need to do something about it. Now comes this vaccine that he has his fingers in and fertility issues is one of the rumors of a side effect. 
Like I said I’m not a huge conspiracy theory person but with all this pushing I am definitely sitting back wondering why. Now don’t get me wrong if I wasn’t a border line hermit and I thought I was really at risk of not having a chance of surviving this I would probably take the vaccine. Whatever plan they have probably wouldn’t matter if I was dead. But I think I’m fairly healthy, I don’t go out and about much, I don’t work with the public so I’m going to sit back and see how this all unfolds for a few years.


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## Damfino

HoosierShadow said:


> Our state mask mandate ends on June 11th. But many places are easing mask mandates for vaccinated people. Ummm... how do they know people are not vaccinated are they going to card everyone who doesn't wear a mask? I mean seriously....


They don't know and they're not carding anyone. So far it's all on the honor system. Colorado lifted the mask mandate a week ago and most people aren't wearing them. Truth be told, it's not really that much different. The people who didn't buy into the whole mask thing never wore them properly to begin with so they might as well have not been wearing them at all anyway. The whole thing was more about keeping up appearances than actually keeping anyone safe. 



> I have not been vaccinated and am still on the fence about it... So our not getting it yet isn't about politics, but just making sure it's really safe and effective.


A lot of people are in the same boat and it's ok. It's not political for me either. I have high hopes that the vaccine is safe and effective, but I also have some pretty deep-seated suspicion. I'm in a demographic that is very low-risk for serious Covid so I don't consider vaccination all that important in my case. However, if I were considerably older and/or had other risk factors such as diabetes, obesity, heart or respiratory problems, etc. I would take a chance on the vaccine rather than take a chance with the virus. It's all about weighing risks vs. benefits in your particular case and not letting anyone else make you feel bad about the choice you make. The constant shaming we've had over the past year has irritated me more than any other aspect of this pandemic. We've been shamed for leaving our homes, visiting friends and relatives, traveling, going to church, not going to church, holding outdoor events, canceling outdoor events, wearing masks, not wearing masks, and now for being vaccinated or for not being vaccinated! I'm sick and tired of all the shame being thrown around! I think everyone needs to leave each other alone about our respective choices and realize that every choice in life comes with inherent risks that need to be weighed against the benefits, and it is not the same for everybody.


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## Damfino

AndersonRanch said:


> Lol if I wanted to be on the run for whatever reason it’s not that hard to toss a cell phone, cut up a credit card and not log onto a computer. Heck come summer time and that’s kinda how I live anyways. But I probably couldn’t survive chopping my arm off at the shoulder without going to the hospital and being found. As for scanning yourself even with the animal chips you can’t get one brand chip and scan it with another brands scanner so IF this was happening I highly doubt they would have a scanner out for the public to see if it’s for real or not.


For most people these days it's almost impossible to toss their cell phone or do away with credit cards and computers. You can't participate meaningfully in the economy without those things and that's all the government cares about. The government isn't really interested in the few hermits who can actually pull off anonymity. If the government wants to find you, they'll do it regardless of if you're in "the system" or not and they won't need to scan a chip to do it. As far as scanning for chips, you don't need a specific scanner just to find that it's there. There's technology out there that will pick up _any_ radio frequency or electronic signal. It doesn't have to actually _read_ it in order to detect it. With all the millions of vaccines out there, can anyone honestly believe that someone wouldn't have figured out how to locate implanted chips by now? There are way too many curious nerds out there, enough of whom have a deep-seated mistrust of the government, that any chips in vaccines would have been outed within weeks and we'd all be talking about the scandal and wondering what the point was, what with 99.9% of everyone already willingly opted into cell phones. There's already WAY more cell phone "uptake" in this country than there ever will be for vaccine uptake so if the government wants to track the population, chipping people would be a huge step backwards compared to what's already in place.


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## goathiker

Yep, you're right. All they have to do is inject a micro bot. The bot would build a reciever out of easily obtainable mineral cells and then they could use blue tooth technology to control everyone. 
Technology is insane now days and non of it is made of trackable material.


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## FizzyGoats

So I won’t even go into nanotechnology because it’s an overwhelmingly fascinating and terrifying facet to technology. Things can be preprogrammed to act certain ways, have a primary function basically, or be made to learn as they go, and it is flat out sci-fi come to life. I watched a documentary on the probabilities of how human existence will come to an end (because I find these hypotheses interesting) and up there with bio-weapons and nukes and such was nanotechnology. That’s what made me start researching it. If used properly, it could do amazing things. And like anything else, if used improperly, it is a magnificent method of chaos and destruction. 

Anyway, what I wanted to respond to was that they’ve been studying this vaccine for years and didn’t have to start from scratch. That’s true. Sort of. Vaccines go through different stages of testing, usually taking months if not years at each of the five or so stages. The lab research is only the beginning of the process and this is all they had done and had to tweak it. And any “tweak” should mandate another round in that stage. And a doctor saying it doesn’t cause infertility is speculating, same as one who would say it does. We don’t know yet. It’s a gamble. Stack the odds in your favor the best you can, then take it or leave it after making your best choice. Professionals can give their theory and opinion given what they know of the vaccine, but until more time passes and more research is done, we honestly don’t know. So anyone who says with certainty that it’s safe or that it is unsafe, is not getting their certainty from a place where I can share it. It’s experimental and should be treated as such. And it’s not. It’s pushed. And not pushed as in, hey we think this could be the miracle we’ve been waiting for so here’s the risk and benefit we see so please volunteer to be a part of this very large study, no it’s pushed like it’s a proven prevention and those who can’t see that are silly science-deniers and conspiracy theorists. The rewards for getting it, the refusal to admit it is experimental, the denouncing of those who question its efficacy, safety, and frankly the need for it in low risk groups, and the social pressure applied concerns me greatly. Being low risk myself, I’m not in any hurry to get vaccinated.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Yah well, I only believe what Zuckerberg has fact-checked.


----------



## goathiker




----------



## ksalvagno

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Yah well, I only believe what Zuckerberg has fact-checked.


----------



## Damfino

goathiker said:


> Yep, you're right. All they have to do is inject a micro bot. The bot would build a reciever out of easily obtainable mineral cells and then they could use blue tooth technology to control everyone.
> Technology is insane now days and non of it is made of trackable material.


This is quite frankly ridiculous. You claim in one sentence that bluetooth technology can control it but then you say it's not trackable. If it's not trackable then bluetooth can't detect it in order to control it. If it IS trackable by a technology as wimpy as bluetooth then it can't be successfully hidden. Any technology that can be tracked by one entity can be cracked by another. This is the basic truth to ALL software. 

And my question is, if bluetooth somehow "controls" people, what exactly is it making them do? Since the demographic with the highest percentage of vaccine acceptance and uptake are the extremely elderly, I have to wonder why the government (or Bill Gates or Pfizer or whoever) wants to track and control nursing home residents? If the government wanted to sneak nanotech into people's bodies for some absurd reason (absurd because every other form of tracking is already here and universally accepted), they'd do it through something less obvious than using a brand new vaccine that half of everyone is suspicious of. The people the government probably wants to track and control most are the ones least likely to ever take the vaccine, so their nefarious "plan" has already backfired spectacularly. If "they" are smart enough to come up with nanotech that controls everyone but cannot be detected, then "they" are smart enough to have foreseen this vaccine resistance. Which means "they" are probably using less obvious vectors like mosquitos or hand sanitizer or vitamins. DUN-DUN-DUN!


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## ksalvagno

The patent for these shots is for gene therapy not vaccine. There are no successful animal studies published. Where are the long term studies on this technology and how it will affect us long term? We don't even know if it affects our immune system to make us vulnerable to other viruses and diseases. We don't even know how it will affect people next flu season.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I have to wonder why the government (or Bill Gates or Pfizer or whoever) wants to track and control nursing home residents?


The easy answer would be that older people are statistically more likely to vote conservative (Repubican).


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## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> The easy answer would be that older people are statistically more likely to vote conservative (Repubican).


In which case a much easier solution would have been to make sure the elderly population did NOT get access to vaccines because then a lot of them would probably die from Covid in the next few years--a much more final solution than thinking you can somehow control their vote through implanted nanotech! If it's all about turning Republicans into Democrats, then the experiment is a failure because Republicans are statistically far less likely to get the vaccine than Democrats. However, I know a few Republicans (including my mother) that have been vaccinated. If they turn liberal and vote Democrat in the next election cycle I'll humbly apologize and eat my words. Now, if Democrats suddenly start voting Republican then we need to worry that the Republicans are the ones behind this nefarious mind control plan and that's why so many Republican voters are rejecting the vaccine.

Seriously, if someone wants to tamper with election results, there are far easier, cheaper, and more reliable ways to go about it than implanting people with mind control tech! 

If the vaccine rollout is nothing more than a thinly veiled plot to microchip the populace, they would NOT have started with a "protect the elderly" slogan. Covid would have been hyped as seriously deadly for children and the vaccine would have been rolled out to them first and their parents and grandparents would have easily followed suit. Doing it from oldest to youngest is guaranteed to make for a botched job, which tells me that the "powers that be" are either too stupid to create the required nanotech in the first place (let alone control it!); or the vaccine is actually nothing more than what we've been told--a new type of inoculation for a new and somewhat deadly strain of coronavirus. There are enough reasons to be cautious about any new medical breakthrough without adding in a bunch of ridiculous zombie apocalypse conspiracy theories. 

But if my mother ends up like this, I'll for sure let you guys know!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> In which case a much easier solution would have been to make sure the elderly population did NOT get access to vaccines because then a lot of them would probably die from Covid in the next few years--a much more final solution than thinking you can somehow control their vote through implanted nanotech!


I think they ran that trial in New York.  I'll add extra just in case.   



Damfino said:


> If it's all about turning Republicans into Democrats, then the experiment is a failure because Republicans are statistically far less likely to get the vaccine than Democrats.


Perhaps, but you don't need to control 100% of the population. If you could swing say 5% of the vote, you would be hard to beat in an election.  



Damfino said:


> If the vaccine rollout is nothing more than a thinly veiled plot to microchip the populace, they would NOT have started with a "protect the elderly" slogan. Covid would have been hyped as seriously deadly for children and the vaccine would have been rolled out to them first and their parents and grandparents would have easily followed suit.


You need to be a little more devious. Role out the vaccine to older people to show that it is safe and wonderful. Then add the microchips for the younger people.  And again   

Just to make sure: I do not believe in microchips or nanobots in the vaccine. I would have to be convinced that such technology exists, and I do not think it exists now. So, I'm just playing devil's advocate and having a little fun.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Just to make sure my post didn’t spark this, I don’t think there’s nanotechnology in the vaccines. The technology is in its infancy and would not be reliable or fiscally feasible enough to do a mass rollout as far as I’m concerned. I just saw it mentioned and I’m a dork who is interested in that stuff so I commented. 

I do think there are ulterior motives to the vaccine, greed and power come to mind, and I won’t discount more nefarious motives either. I just have no clue what those would be. For me, it’s just untested and a risk. If the benefit is great enough for you, go for it. If not, don’t. I really don’t like the pressure and scare tactics of it. For now I’ve made my choice to not get the shot. If things change, my mind might too. 

I’m just not appreciating be treated like a leper because I don’t have it. If you’re worried, get vaccinated and then I’m no threat to you. If you’re worried, wear a mask, then again, I’m no threat to you. If you’re worried your mask and vaccine aren’t protection enough for you, then why should I bother with either?

I try to be respectful. I keep my distance. But the judgment and evil eyes aren’t needed. And canceling events and school and church and so on, or only letting the vaccinated attend, I mean come on, that’s just not ok. We are reasonable people. I hold out hope for a reasonable resolution.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I think they ran that trial in New York.  I'll add extra just in case.


Old people in NYS vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Oops. 



> Perhaps, but you don't need to control 100% of the population. If you could swing say 5% of the vote, you would be hard to beat in an election.


The problem with elections is that there are zero good people to vote for on either mainstream ticket, so swinging the vote right or left makes no difference. Both parties are two sides to the same coin. There's actually a lot less power in voting than we've been led to believe, which is why such a huge percentage of the population doesn't even bother. The only reason I vote is so I am entitled to complain about whoever gets in office. As a staunch third party voter for the last 20 years, I have zero illusions that my choice will ever win. 



> You need to be a little more devious. Role out the vaccine to older people to show that it is safe and wonderful. Then add the microchips for the younger people.  And again


So stick it in something hardly anyone is suspicious of--like the standard Polio and MMR vaccines that every kid gets. Why put it in a new experimental vaccine with all kinds of conspiracy theories painted all over it? 



> Just to make sure: I do not believe in microchips or nanobots in the vaccine. I would have to be convinced that such technology exists, and I do not think it exists now. So, I'm just playing devil's advocate and having a little fun.


I agree that the tech is not actually out there yet, and I also think this discussion is all in good fun. No doubt our posts will get deleted later for being too "political" but oh well. One thing I don't like to see is stigma being cast on people, whether it's for masking/not masking or vaccinating/not vaccinating. And what I see in the vaccine conspiracy theories is a stigmatization of people who get vaccinated as if they're idiots who have been duped by the system and will never have free will again. It's a sad, sorry thing to make vulnerable people afraid. We've been told by some people to be terrified of Covid, and now we're being told by others to be terrified of the vaccination for Covid. More than anything, I'm just tired of everyone screaming at us to be terrified of everything. I'm not the least bit worried for my friends and family who are vaccinated. Nor am I worried for my friends and family who aren't. They can all do what they like with my blessing.


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## Goats Rock

I leave my cell in a spot in my barn- no signal there- boy, if I am being tracked, they are bored! Bottle feed the brats, water, hay, grain, deliver kids, clean up the goo,
water the herd again (continually.....) more hay, sweep, then go to other farm and do it all again. Sleep a few hours and start all over. Yep, if I was watching me, I'd
be bored to tears......  🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐 (or ready to lock me up for being a lunatic!)


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## AndersonRanch

Mike at Capra vista, I’m with ya, I don’t really fully believe they are putting chips in people but also wouldn’t totally be 100% shocked if 20-30 years from now it came out that there really was chips being planted. Lol and I thought the same thing with the older people. I do think they probably have a way to do so, look at how far technology has come and what we have come up with, and that is just the stuff that the public knows about. What is out there that we don’t know? 
But back to argumentative fun  no I don’t think think they want to know what hermits or even the average Joe is doing, but I do think, if we are getting chips, that it’s probably with the idea of wanting to keep track of people of interest. Radicals, terrorist, whatever. And who knows when a average Joe will become a person of interest. Look at our every day wack jobs. People that seem normal and like upstanding citizens and they have meth labs in the basement, kidnappers and so on. We had one family that was the most outstanding citizens, volunteers for 4H, went to church every Sunday, the dad was a correctional officer and as soon as those kids hit 18 and got out of the house it came out that it was a sexually abusive household. I’m not saying that is exactly the type of people they would want to track I’m just using that as a example of how people are not always what they seem. 
I really wouldn’t doubt it if fertility was part of the ulterior motive and I would dang sure put money on the fact greed is the #1 thing behind all of this. But no one knows for sure, we are not in the “in group” (as far as I know, at least I’m not lol) but it seems we can all agree that it is so strange it’s being pushed so hard, for whatever reason. And no I would not bash anyone who gets the vaccine. That is their choice their life. I can’t say that if I worked at say a hospital, I wouldn’t get it. I don’t plan on having kids, I really don’t plan on going on the run, even though I don’t want to be tracked because the way this world is going who knows maybe I just might need to go in hiding lol, but ultimately I wouldn’t want to die so I would think a lot harder about the vaccine.


----------



## Damfino

Try not paying taxes and see how long you can stay in hiding! The U.S. government doesn't need tracking implants to find its own citizens. Never has.

If people were actually worried about their government and huge corporations tracking them they would've ditched their technology en masse years ago. But they won't and at this point most cant. Sadly, I think a majority of people these days would in fact rather cut off their arm than ditch all modern technology. As for the "Powers That Be," why should they put feeble scanning chips into 70% of the population when 99% of the population already pays good money to carry a full-fledged powerful tracking and monitoring device around with them everywhere? Chipping would be an expensive step backwards! The Beast is here and it never had to force its way in through some sneaky back entrance. We welcomed it into our homes and embraced it like a long lost lover.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Old people in NYS vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Oops.


Is that true? I had no idea. 


Damfino said:


> The problem with elections is that there are zero good people to vote for on either mainstream ticket,


Certainly true for your last two elections - from a foreign perspective.


Damfino said:


> so swinging the vote right or left makes no difference.


Makes a big difference to the people in power.


Damfino said:


> The only reason I vote is so I am entitled to complain about whoever gets in office.


Personally I do not buy that argument. If an elected official does something I don't like, especially something unrelated to their platform, then I feel entitled to complain. 


Damfino said:


> So stick it in something hardly anyone is suspicious of--like the standard Polio and MMR vaccines that every kid gets. Why put it in a new experimental vaccine with all kinds of conspiracy theories painted all over it?


It would take too long to get the thing (whatever the thing may be) into enough of the population.


Damfino said:


> More than anything, I'm just tired of everyone screaming at us to be terrified of everything. I'm not the least bit worried for my friends and family who are vaccinated. Nor am I worried for my friends and family who aren't. They can all do what they like with my blessing.


Could not agree more. It seems with social media we are quick to judge and quick to pile on. Anonymity has made us more inconsiderate and rude on line and I think that has spilled over into real life.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Goats Rock said:


> I leave my cell in a spot in my barn- no signal there- boy, if I am being tracked, they are bored! Bottle feed the brats, water, hay, grain, deliver kids, clean up the goo,
> water the herd again (continually.....) more hay, sweep, then go to other farm and do it all again. Sleep a few hours and start all over. Yep, if I was watching me, I'd
> be bored to tears......  🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐 (or ready to lock me up for being a lunatic!)


I don't think anyone is tracking or watching you in that sense. But what if "they" are recording and storing everything. Lets say there was a meeting held 2 years ago by one of "their" political enemies. "They" could potentially find out who was at the meeting by finding who was at that location at that time. 
We used to assume a certain amount of privacy. Much of that is no more.


----------



## toth boer goats

I do agree.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I don't think anyone is tracking or watching you in that sense. But what if "they" are recording and storing everything. Lets say there was a meeting held 2 years ago by one of "their" political enemies. "They" could potentially find out who was at the meeting by finding who was at that location at that time.
> We used to assume a certain amount of privacy. Much of that is no more.


^ This! 

Everyone is so worried about microchipping (yes, I live in a very conservative area and I attend church where conspiracy theories abound), but a microchip hasn't got nearly the technological capabilities of the phones that people can't seem to part with even for the length of a 2-hour church service! We theorize that we could ditch our technology any time if the government got "too scary" but the reality of actually breaking ourselves away from all technology that could potentially track us (which is in fact most of it) is much easier said than done. Almost every person I meet is astounded that I still don't own a cell phone, that I'm not on social media, and that my computer camera is covered. And yet I think of myself as highly tracked because I have a social security number, a known street address, a landline phone, registered vehicles, a credit card, a bank account, and a computer with internet capabilities and a search/purchase history. I've known a handful of people in my lifetime that managed to avoid all of those things, but they're becoming fewer and further between with each passing year. And they _definitely_ aren't the ones a vaccination would finally "catch"!


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Personally I do not buy that argument. If an elected official does something I don't like, especially something unrelated to their platform, then I feel entitled to complain.


My point wasn't that you can't complain about the people you vote for (you certainly can and more people definitely should!). My point was that if I didn't vote at all I wouldn't be entitled to complain.


----------



## Damfino

I think the reason the vaccine is being pushed so hard is because of sunk cost, fear, and the moral superiority of being proved "right". Loads of time and money have been poured into research and development for these vaccines. If people don't get them, that time, effort, and money will be wasted. It would be a black mark on the medical research industry if they delivered a vaccine that most people rejected. It would affect not just their reputations but their future funding. 

There's also the sunk cost of a year of economic shutdowns and political turmoil. If few people take the vaccine, it means people didn't take the disease seriously, which means all of last year's crisis was for nothing. A lack of vaccine uptake validates the idea that lockdowns, masks, quarantines, etc. were unnecessary. The government and medical experts can't afford to lose face that way. They have to continue proclaiming the urgency of the crisis that necessitated last year's actions, so urgently pushing vaccination is the logical next step. If they aren't urgent about the vaccine it would mean they don't believe the crisis was very serious after all. It would be an open admission of error and overreaction. They can't let that happen because there's too much at stake. 

There's also the fact of fear. This virus has been pedaled as the next worst disease to black death and many people are legitimately scared of it. They are terrified of resurging cases so they feel a legitimate need to push the vaccine as hard as possible on every person they know. They won't feel safe until every person around them is vaccinated.

So no, I don't believe that the over-the-top pushing of the vaccine is a product of its nefarious contents. It's not designed to track people or intentionally induce infertility or give you cancer or whatever. The high-pressure car salesman tactics come straight from something harder to control than any virus, and that is ingrained human nature. In the unlikely event the vaccine ends up causing long term health problems or infertility, it would be a flaw in the vaccine that was undiscovered until widespread and long term use--not an intentional outcome.


----------



## happybleats

I'm less concerned about their motives and more concerned of my freedom to choose being vaccinated or not. Maybe that is a naive thought..but once my right to choose a vaccine or not is infringed on..it doesn't matter why...they will demand it. The forced mask mandate shows they already have us by the neckline. Wear a mask or don't shop here..wear a mask or no dr appointment or no flying and so forth. Sure they lifted the mask madate in many areas now..but when It was in place...people complied because they needed to shop, fly or see that Dr. So what will we do when you won't be able to do these things without proof of vaccine? A mask is not floating in my viens, possibly causing irreversible damage....a vaccine would be.. That is my concern right now. Now to be fair..I don't listen to news...im not highly active on FB and I don't read political posts or clips. So maybe this is not even a real thing to be concerned about and I'm speaking without updated truths 🤔


----------



## Tanya

Nanotechnology.... spying and politics... yay... and all for a virus....


----------



## luvmyherd

This has been an interesting Saturday morning read. We were sitting around with my daughter and her husband discussing the pros and cons of getting the vaccine. It was all very reasonable and based on the information that we have. Suddenly my son-in-law comes out with, "the vaccine can be programmed and they are going to kill everybody in two years." I was like HUH!!??!!?? But apparently, he heard it and believes it.

The final upshot with our family has been...my husband and I are almost 70 and felt that if it keeps us from getting seriously ill as they claim; then it is worth it for us. Our 46yo son is not getting it. Our 48yo daughter is a school teacher heading back to classrooms full of children and is obese so she feels a need for it. Her adult son is getting it but her adult daughter is not. Our middle son has so many problems from all the vaxxes he got in the Marines that he is a firm no. Our younger daughter and her husband who are essentially non-vaxxers have decided that over all it is worth it. She is a teacher and he is a banker so they are exposed all the time. They are not letting their children get it. The conspiracy believing SIL is so immune compromised that it would be harmful to him anyway so he is a no. 

I only wrote all of this out to demonstrate how a very close family with very similar views and values; each came to our own decision without judgement nor ridicule of anyone.



FizzyGoats said:


> For now I’ve made my choice to not get the shot. If things change, my mind might too.


Exactly. We were a firm no at first. Then we talked with people we trust and learned as much as we could. We could have gotten it right at the beginning at our age but waited. We actually made and cancelled two appointments before we finally went in yesterday for our first shot. (And I still do not know for sure how I feel about it.)
Our main concern for ourselves is to be sure we are doing for the right reasons and not because we feel pressured by advertising and peer pressure. YES! Peer pressure at our age.


----------



## Damfino

My family is the same--some got vaccinated, some are still on the fence, and some won't. We're not giving each other grief over it. Hopefully everyone will stay chill.


----------



## AndersonRanch

happybleats said:


> I'm less concerned about their motives and more concerned of my freedom to choose being vaccinated or not. Maybe that is a naive thought..but once my right to choose a vaccine or not is infringed on..it doesn't matter why...they will demand it. The forced mask mandate shows they already have us by the neckline. Wear a mask or don't shop here..wear a mask or no dr appointment or no flying and so forth. Sure they lifted the mask madate in many areas now..but when It was in place...people complied because they needed to shop, fly or see that Dr. So what will we do when you won't be able to do these things without proof of vaccine? A mask is not floating in my viens, possibly causing irreversible damage....a vaccine would be.. That is my concern right now. Now to be fair..I don't listen to news...im not highly active on FB and I don't read political posts or clips. So maybe this is not even a real thing to be concerned about and I'm speaking without updated truths


Not naive at all! You are absolutely right! And it really was super scary how fast everyone gave up their right with the mask. No matter if it was needed or not. I’m not starting that debate in any way. It really makes one think what madness is next.
And I’m with you, I have stopped watching the news. All it does is upsets me and puts me in a bad mood and stew and I have enough personal issues and things to keep me busy lol


----------



## AndersonRanch

luvmyherd said:


> This has been an interesting Saturday morning read. We were sitting around with my daughter and her husband discussing the pros and cons of getting the vaccine. It was all very reasonable and based on the information that we have. Suddenly my son-in-law comes out with, "the vaccine can be programmed and they are going to kill everybody in two years." I was like HUH!!??!!?? But apparently, he heard it and believes it.
> 
> The final upshot with our family has been...my husband and I are almost 70 and felt that if it keeps us from getting seriously ill as they claim; then it is worth it for us. Our 46yo son is not getting it. Our 48yo daughter is a school teacher heading back to classrooms full of children and is obese so she feels a need for it. Her adult son is getting it but her adult daughter is not. Our middle son has so many problems from all the vaxxes he got in the Marines that he is a firm no. Our younger daughter and her husband who are essentially non-vaxxers have decided that over all it is worth it. She is a teacher and he is a banker so they are exposed all the time. They are not letting their children get it. The conspiracy believing SIL is so immune compromised that it would be harmful to him anyway so he is a no.
> 
> I only wrote all of this out to demonstrate how a very close family with very similar views and values; each came to our own decision without judgement nor ridicule of anyone.
> 
> 
> Exactly. We were a firm no at first. Then we talked with people we trust and learned as much as we could. We could have gotten it right at the beginning at our age but waited. We actually made and cancelled two appointments before we finally went in yesterday for our first shot. (And I still do not know for sure how I feel about it.)
> Our main concern for ourselves is to be sure we are doing for the right reasons and not because we feel pressured by advertising and peer pressure. YES! Peer pressure at our age.


Hey that is another spin on it though that you SIL has lol the world is over populated, take out the ones we could live without and less crowded. Heck though if Gates has his hands in it though I’m doomed because I bet he would go for cattle ranchers first lol


----------



## Moers kiko boars

After all the B.S. and lies on T.v. by "news" and National Enquier..( there is no difference). I dont belive 3/4 of the on line info for instant Gurus, to bless us with their misguided info. I just sit back and laugh at all the know it alls argue. Lol lol 
The Truth is all I want. And I know the only Book that has it. ...oh...and zuckerberg isnt in it...lol lol


----------



## AndersonRanch

Moers kiko boars said:


> After all the B.S. and lies on T.v. by "news" and National Enquier..( there is no difference). I dont belive 3/4 of the on line info for instant Gurus, to bless us with their misguided info. I just sit back and laugh at all the know it alls argue. Lol lol
> The Truth is all I want. And I know the only Book that has it. ...oh...and zuckerberg isnt in it...lol lol


Exactly! I remember as a kid watching my grandma yelling at the tv saying “curse curse that’s a lie” along with other things and thinking WOW! My grandma is nuts. When I found myself doing the same thing I’m like nope I need a break lol I have the weather on my phone.....although I could live without it lol and my husband and his friends to keep my updated on fires and that’s pretty much all I care about that’s news worthy anyway.


----------



## FizzyGoats

luvmyherd said:


> ...
> 
> I only wrote all of this out to demonstrate how a very close family with very similar views and values; each came to our own decision without judgement nor ridicule of anyone.


That’s awesome. I wish I could say the same. Some of my family got the shots, some didn’t and there’s judgment on both sides. Not from everyone, but from enough for it to be pretty annoying. 

And it’s so frustrating to make the right choice for you but still feel the need to second guess it because you have to make sure you’re not doing it because of social pressure, especially when you thought you were past that phase of life. I’m glad you were able to wade through the madness and find what’s best for you to do. 




AndersonRanch said:


> Exactly! I remember as a kid watching my grandma yelling at the tv saying “curse curse that’s a lie” along with other things and thinking WOW! My grandma is nuts. When I found myself doing the same thing I’m like nope I need a break lol I have the weather on my phone.....although I could live without it lol and my husband and his friends to keep my updated on fires and that’s pretty much all I care about that’s news worthy anyway.


So I also don’t watch the news either because it ruins an otherwise lovely day. I tend to read news instead. Don’t know why that works better for me, but it does. And I had to laugh at this. There are so many times I have to check myself because I do something my mom does and I think oh no, I’m turning into my crazy mom.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Personally I do not buy that argument. If an elected official does something I don't like, especially something unrelated to their platform, then I feel entitled to complain.





Damfino said:


> My point wasn't that you can't complain about the people you vote for (you certainly can and more people definitely should!). My point was that if I didn't vote at all I wouldn't be entitled to complain.


Sorry, I should really proof read before hitting send before 5:00 AM. I was trying to say that even if you do NOT vote you can complain as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> After all the B.S. and lies on T.v. by "news" and National Enquier..( there is no difference). I dont belive 3/4 of the on line info for instant Gurus, to bless us with their misguided info. I just sit back and laugh at all the know it alls argue. Lol lol
> The Truth is all I want. And I know the only Book that has it. ...oh...and zuckerberg isnt in it...lol lol


One of my favorite posters (credit to Despair.com):


----------



## Damfino

FizzyGoats said:


> So I also don’t watch the news either because it ruins an otherwise lovely day. I tend to read news instead. Don’t know why that works better for me, but it does.


I'm the same. I haven't had television since I left my parents' home at 18 years old. Strange to think that was almost 24 years ago. I can't say I've missed TV at all in that time! Some of my relatives have the news streaming constantly and it drives me nuts when I visit. I've sometimes asked if we can please turn it off because having those frenzied, urgent voices in the background puts me on edge. Watching news is nothing like reading news. There's emotion conveyed on screen that primes you to be fearful, outraged, and in a state of fight-or-flight. Emotion is also conveyed in writing but it's easier to to consciously detect and filter. Also, it's much easier to fact-check something that's written out in front of you. When you watch it on TV, a statement comes and goes and it's hard to remember to go back and check it against other sources. I like that studies referenced in a written news article can quite often be looked up and read in their entirety. It's amazing how often "facts" are cherry-picked from certain sources, and insignificant details are made to seem important when taken outside of their original context. I love that so many scientific studies are now published online, and often for free. Even the paid ones are not very expensive. But yeah, I definitely prefer to read my news, and on controversial topics I like to look at articles from several different sources with different political angles.


----------



## Damfino

AndersonRanch said:


> And it really was super scary how fast everyone gave up their right with the mask. No matter if it was needed or not. I’m not starting that debate in any way. It really makes one think what madness is next.


C.S. Lewis summed it up very neatly long before 2020: 

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> One of my favorite posters (credit to Despair.com):
> 
> View attachment 208608


Brilliant! I will do my utmost to remember that. (alas, I know I won't)


----------



## Damfino

Just download the image to your computer. Whenever you have time go look at despair.com. It's got some awesome "demotivators" in its archives!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Just download the image to your computer. Whenever you have time go look at despair.com. It's got some awesome "demotivators" in its archives!


Thanks for that. Some of those are very funny - for my sense of humour.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Thanks for that. Some of those are very funny - for my sense of humour.


People who don't think Despair.com posters are funny don't have a sense of humor.  
My favorites are almost all in the retired section though. 

In other news, I read a few weeks ago that a certain private school in Florida bought the "vaccinated people are zapping unvaccinated people with their zombie rays" narrative and aren't allowing any of their teachers to get vaccinated. First of all, how would they know in order to enforce such a rule? And second of all, what are these people going to do to protect themselves from the terrifying vaccinated masses outside their school? Perhaps they'll promote masking and social distancing! Oh wait...


----------



## luvmyherd

This thread has segued to the media several times this year. I always put in








by asking when the last time was that a headline read "Forty-Five Thousand Flights Landed Safely Today."?
We no longer get news; we get entertainment. They are allowed to advertise medicines the same as McDonald's drinks. Sometimes I cannot even figure out what product is being advertised.
There is truth out there but it takes a lot of time and research and we should not have to do that. Just tell me the truth!!!


----------



## Tanya

And tonight we had a family meeting. The third wave is apon us and our president is upset with us because our people are not adhering to the protocols. In 14 days our infections went from 3000 a day to 7000 a day... 
I am curios to see if he will move us to level 2 from level 1....


----------



## ksalvagno

Good luck. I hope all of you stay healthy.


----------



## Tanya

And we are back to level 3. 🤦‍♀️ back to 50 people in a venue and 100 outside. Be in bed by 9 pm and up at 4 am. Alcohol from 10 am to 6 pm monday to thursday. No drinking in pablic spaces. Whoo hoo. Here we go.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## happybleats

Wow...stay safe Tanya!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Oh @Tanya Please stay safe & healthy. You and your family! Please keep us informed.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@Tanya How are you? Are you staying safe? I hope you and your family & business are safe. I havent had an update.


----------



## Tanya

With carona I am battling an everlaating chest infection. But its ok. Asthma pumps are wonders. My girls are here safe with me. And my rescue is safe. I heard on Saturday the boogers managed to finally burn the grounds down and the owner vacated unwillingly. So I dont know where her horses are or the other dogs and where they have gone.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Thankyou for answering. I can not imagine what you are going through. Im grateful your family is safe. 
Hopefully the animals were just scared and ran off. Hopefully a kind person will find them. 
Please take care of your lungs and get over this dog gone virus


----------



## luvmyherd

Wow Tanya! I hope that at least you are able to get some rest. Your body must be near the breaking point.

The biggest Covid thing for us right now is our trip to Hawaii. (Sounds like a 1st world problem to me.) LOL! If their vax rate hits 60%; we will not have to be tested before flying. Not a huge deal but we could really use one less headache. It can turn into quite a hassle and if the paper work isn't perfect you can still end up quarantined.
They seem to be hovering between 52-56%. With two weeks to go we may be cutting it close.
We are all opened up now but we are still being cautious. I am experiencing a lot of the post-Covid symptoms like anxiety around indoor crowds and noise. Trader Joe's was so loud the other day I almost had to leave. I am sure it will pass with time.


----------



## Tanya

@luvmyherd I feel you. Good luck going to your destination without any hassle.

I wish we could move freely here. I have to get tested every 3 months now. What a headache. And our vaccine rate is under 30%


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Tanya said:


> And our vaccine rate is under 30%


Curious, is the low vax rate due to lack of supply, vaccine hesitancy or problimatic vaccine deployment?


----------



## Tanya

All of the above


----------



## Goats Rock

The expiration date had arrived for a bunch of the vaccines- so instead of tossing them, they changed the expiration date!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Goats Rock said:


> The expiration date had arrived for a bunch of the vaccines- so instead of tossing them, they changed the expiration date!


Maybe they have adopted my system for food safety. 
If it ain't too fuzzy it ain't bad yet and if you can scrape the fuzz off then it is no longer too fuzzy.


----------



## Tanya

I wish it was asbeasy as that. And lo and behold... we use sea freight and not air freight.... whoo hoo... everything chinese.... only sea freight.... ugh....


----------



## Tanya

And the virus that shall not be named just claimed Nikita's 22 year old ex-boyfriend. He contracted the virus at the hospital treating him for stitches. He was only sick for 3 days.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Got to love hospitals. Great places to get sick. But when you need them, it’s worth the risk. Glad to hear he got over it so quickly. Now if you could just be fortunate enough to kick that nasty virus. I hope you’re feeling better and taking care of yourself.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@Tanya how are you doing? Have you kicked that C19s bottom? I do hope you are better. Youve been through alot, and with Stress the resistance goes down. Might want to double up on Vit C and get some garlic pills for yourself. That at least helps build some immunity properties in your system.


----------



## Tanya

@Moers kiko boars oh yes. Much vit c and garlic and ginger.... we are getting therr


----------



## Tanya

And we are now back to lockdown level 4. We are looking at 20 000 infections a day and as of today approx 400 deaths a day. 🤦‍♀️


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Those are frightening numbers. Be safe, sending prayers!


----------



## toth boer goats

The epidemic is not as bad as the numbers being thrown out there. 

If someone dies or becomes ill they blame it on COVID to spike numbers.
This is to scare you into getting the deadly vaccine.


----------



## Lil Boogie

Im just doin lol


----------



## Tanya

We still have the freedom of choice regarding the vaccine. So we just don't care about the scare tactics. I have had this thing 5 times now and am still here. So I am not scared


----------



## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> The epidemic is not as bad as the numbers being thrown out there.
> 
> If someone dies or becomes ill they blame it on COVID to spike numbers.
> This is to scare you into getting the deadly vaccine.


I don't deny the inflated numbers, but _why_ is the vaccine deadly? 

I'd like to have anyone offer actual PROOF that the vaccine has directly killed a significant percentage of the population who has received it. Otherwise you're just fear mongering and you're no different from all the folks telling us we need to hide in our closets with three masks until every last member of the human race is fully vaccinated. I'm tired of hearing from one side that every person I know who ISN'T vaccinated is going to die, and hearing the exact same thing from the other side telling me that every person I know who IS vaccinated is going to die. Has everybody on the planet lost their brains and succumbed to abject panic?? Seriously people. Get a grip! 

I recently told a lady at church that I wasn't going to disclose my vaccination status one way or the other to anyone because a few folks I know will treat me like a leper if I'm NOT vaccinated, and way too many of my other friends will treat me like a leper if I AM vaccinated. I'm sick of this garbage. Whatever happened to live and let live?


----------



## toth boer goats

Orange County woman's death after 2nd dose of Moderna vaccine spurs concern from family


The Orange County Coroner's office is investigating the death of a woman who died just days after she received her second dose of the Moderna vaccine.




abc7.com













23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials


Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, sai…




nypost.com













55 People Died in US After Receiving COVID-19 Vaccines: Reporting System - CatholicCitizens.org


By Zachary Stieber, Epoch Times, January 16, 2021 Fifty-five people in the United States have died after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to reports submitted to a federal system. Deaths […]




catholiccitizens.org













Mayo Clinic dermatologist details possible skin issues from COVID-19 and vaccines


From loss of smell to brain fog, COVID-19 has caused a variety of symptoms in the people who get infected.




www.actionnewsjax.com













Fact Check: Have 966 People Died After Receiving the COVID Vaccine?


The U.S. COVID vaccine rollout has seen over 90 million people receive at least one dose of a jab, according to CDC data as of March 7.




www.newsweek.com





Here are a few links.

Sorry you can’t see the dangers in it especially not being FDA approved.


----------



## luvmyherd

I hope you are able to stay safe and healthy Tanya.
I do not want to make light of people's serious problems. We have had a number of our own the past few years.
But there are headlines everywhere announcing that Hawaii will lift its Covid test requirement......... July 8!!
We fly out July 6!!!!! GRRR!


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## Tanya

Ok. So I have had this thing 5 times. I was one of the first to have the delta variant. Its much worse than the first strain.
My sister had it some time back. She survived. As a teacher she has gotten the vaccine.
I am sorry but I have built up my own emunity to this thing and wont get vaccinated.
I am ignoring both camps and judging for myself. I really wish that all the rumor mills would stop. Its so destructive.
Iluvlilly, I am so sorry.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Whatever happened to live and let live?


I died.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I died.


Sorry, sorry. that was supposed to say "It died"


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I'd like to have anyone offer actual PROOF that the vaccine has directly killed a significant percentage of the population who has received it. Otherwise you're just fear mongering and you're no different from all the folks telling us we need to hide in our closets with three masks until every last member of the human race is fully vaccinated. I'm tired of hearing from one side that every person I know who ISN'T vaccinated is going to die, and hearing the exact same thing from the other side telling me that every person I know who IS vaccinated is going to die. Has everybody on the planet lost their brains and succumbed to abject panic?? Seriously people. Get a grip!


I agree with most of what you say. It would be nice if people dialed down the rhetoric. 

Here is an interesting graph from VAERS
VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System put in place in 1990. It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only 1% of vaccine injuries. 









Mortality - OpenVAERS







www.openvaers.com





The graph shows over 6000 reported post vaccine deaths this year and we are only part way through the year. Previous years average around 300 to 400. However as you will no doubt notice, there is no mention of the number of vaccine doses.


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## Iluvlilly!

Tanya said:


> Iluvlilly, I am so sorry.


I think you meant to say sorry to somebody else?


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## FizzyGoats

This may sound strange to some, but it bothers me this is called a vaccine. It should be called gene therapy IMO. Proper education should be given before deciding for or against it. 

My science background is far in the distance behind me but my grasp of all this from what I learned years ago and what I’ve learned recently leads me to this theory. Now this is a dumbed down version because I am a dumbed down scientist (and even that was log ago). Anyway, wether it’s the gene injection or mRNA, the function is basically the same, so I won’t split hairs on that. Unlike most vaccines, it’s not putting an inert or weakened virus in to build antibodies, but instead injecting a code of sorts. This new code helps create virus protein spikes in our cells so our lymphatic system can attack this intruder aggressively, training it to take out the COVID virus. Sounds good, learning to recognize and eliminate anything with this spike protein. 

And it could be wonderful, someday. I don’t think we’re there yet. Just based on limited microbiology experience, there are possible issues with this injection that worry me. One of the most disturbing to me is that this injection enables spikes to enter places in our body that the virus would never go (it mainly attacks the nose, throat, and lungs). Because this new code is in our blood vessels as a free traveler for a bit, there’s chances it can get into forbidden zones, like the cerebral vascular systems, use those cell walls and put spikes out there. And yep, our lymphocytes will attack, but our lymphocytes have a tough job and can be ruthless and sometimes there’s collateral damage, often to the host cells and surrounding cells. Not a great place for collateral damage. So not only does it go into the cell wall and make this spike protein (which is what it should do, we just simply don’t know how to keep it where the virus would also naturally be so it could be running a bit amuck), but a second disturbing point is that these spike proteins have long been theorized to activate platelets at a mere touch. So these spikes now trapped in our blood stream (closed plumbing system pretty much) could bump platelets floating along and activate them. So along with lymphocytes attacking cells in vessels where the virus never would have naturally gone, we could also have platelets clogging up pathways that need to stay clear.

There’s more about it that bothers me. These, from my admittedly limited microbiology knowledge cache, most concern me. And the lack of proper clinical trials, studies, and transparency. Then you add in the pressure to get it and everything just keeps me taking one more step back from this vaccine.


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## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> Orange County woman's death after 2nd dose of Moderna vaccine spurs concern from family
> 
> 
> The Orange County Coroner's office is investigating the death of a woman who died just days after she received her second dose of the Moderna vaccine.
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> abc7.com
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> 23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials
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> Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, sai…
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> nypost.com
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> 55 People Died in US After Receiving COVID-19 Vaccines: Reporting System - CatholicCitizens.org
> 
> 
> By Zachary Stieber, Epoch Times, January 16, 2021 Fifty-five people in the United States have died after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to reports submitted to a federal system. Deaths […]
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> catholiccitizens.org
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> Mayo Clinic dermatologist details possible skin issues from COVID-19 and vaccines
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> From loss of smell to brain fog, COVID-19 has caused a variety of symptoms in the people who get infected.
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> www.actionnewsjax.com
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> Fact Check: Have 966 People Died After Receiving the COVID Vaccine?
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> The U.S. COVID vaccine rollout has seen over 90 million people receive at least one dose of a jab, according to CDC data as of March 7.
> 
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> www.newsweek.com
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> Here are a few links.
> 
> Sorry you can’t see the dangers in it especially not being FDA approved.


I want to see proof that a _significant percentage_ of vaccinated people have died. Compared to the MILLIONS of people who have received the vaccine, this number of deaths is paltry. It's even paltry compared to the thousands who have died from Covid. Since elderly people have the highest vaccine uptake by far, it stands to reason that quite a few will die shortly after being vaccinated no matter what. 

I am quite certain that creating a vaccine that immediately kills people would be Big Pharma's worst nightmare. They need these people to stay alive so they can keep getting vaccinated year after year, not to mention buying all the other drugs they use. Businesses don't survive if they kill their customers! It's possible that there are unknown side effects that could surface in the next ten years of so, but I have serious doubts that any of the Covid vaccines are deadly right out of the starting gate. Pharmaceutical companies are way too greedy to take such a short-sighted view!

As for FDA approval, I'm not sure why anyone cares about that. I personally put very little stock in government reliability to look after our best interests and keep us safe. The vaccines will be FDA approved before this year is out. Will that magically convince you that they are no longer "deadly"? Somehow I doubt it, so why bring it up? The FDA is in the pocket of Big Pharma anyway so official approval is just a formality at this point.


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## Tanya

Iluvlilly! said:


> I think you meant to say sorry to somebody else?


You are right.... sorry to luvmyherd.....because you still have to do that doggone test


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## Tanya

There will always be a debate about getting or not getting any vaccines for any illness. Here, if a parent wants to place a child in first grade, they must provide evidence of vaccination. If parents have not vaccinated the child cannot attend school. My girls were both only vaccinated against smallpox, chicken pox, measles and german measlhes. Just as I was. They are really srrong gened. I dont think that it should be forced on us and I dont believe that humans should be forced to do something they don't want to.

I am tired of being nailed with needles. Its been a very long road for me with that and I personally wont get the vaccine. But I wont become the one to force my opinion onto other people.


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## FizzyGoats

Tanya, you do what’s right for you and I hope your body gets back on track. You’re in my thoughts often. 

On the subject of Big Pharma trying actively kill people, I agree that’s not their intent. I do think they are acting hastily to get a big money grab and don’t know enough to call this safe but will hide behind any numbers they can, no matter how skewed to defend their profitable position. I also don’t believe COVID is normally life threatening for those in otherwise good health. 

Pushing an untested vaccine that works differently in the body than what we’re used to and claiming it to be safe for children is not only negligent but also reprehensible in my opinion. We know nothing long term but we do know healthy children have a good chance of getting over COVID, especially if given proper supportive care. I hope with everything in me it is safe. But until I see simple things addressed, like how on earth did they address the matter of these spike proteins traveling to places the virus wouldn’t take them, and how are they negating the unintentional platelet activation. 

These aren’t hard questions if you’re the minds behind this treatment, and these and more have been asked people a lot smarter than I am, but haven’t yet been answered or addressed because they say the number of problems is insignificant. But that too is debatable because a lot of symptoms of problems that could arise from these concerns could be classified as any number of things and easily dismissed as not a side effect of the vaccine. It’s not an answer to say, it hasn’t come up much. It could have. Are they digging into tremors, jerking movements, people clotting or bleeding too much but not dying from the symptoms. People reporting splitting headaches. Limb, abdomen, joint pain. Are we getting them scanned, are we checking for anomalous inflammation? No. It would be an enormous cost and dang near cripple our medical system. Which is why this should have been done in long term clinical trials, so all this could be addressed. We could see there is or isn’t a significant risk of x side effects and then decide, approving trial inoculations for those most at risk in the meantime. The lack of honesty is frustrating though not unexpected and it makes it impossible for someone like me to see what is really happening and make a decision based on fact because “facts” seem as easily manipulated as fiction now and there’s so much yelling from both sides that I have to focus on what I can understand and what makes sense to me. 

I guess that’s what we all do, no matter what side of the decision you lean to, hold on to what you can make sense of and make the best choice you can. 

I hope it ends up that my concerns are unfounded and in ten years I’ll laugh at what a worrywart I was.


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## Moers kiko boars

Just ask yourself this question? Does big pharma care if you live or die? 
They cant cure the common cold.
Flu shots only stop the strain of flu they were made for. Not the newer version. 
Cancer is a 3 trillion dollar industry a year
If you are concerned about what you eat...why arent you concerned about whats in the medicine you take?
How many billions of dollars do lawyers make off of Big Pharmas drug mistakes?
Whats your life worth?


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## ksalvagno

The fact that these shots are untested, computer guess DNA sequence for a virus that has never been isolated and has killed more people in these few months than 15 years worth of other vaccine deaths says a lot. No it isn't killing half the vaccinated but we don't know how many deaths it has truly caused since there are elderly that are dying within days to a couple weeks after the vaccine and those are being called "natural" deaths. We also don't know how many it will kill in the future since there are no long term studies on what other effects it has.

We also don't know how many people truly died from covid since hospitals just started putting covid on all death certificates and the PCR test was never made to be a diagnostic tool. Not to mention that the replication number of the PCR test is too high.


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## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I agree with most of what you say. It would be nice if people dialed down the rhetoric.
> 
> Here is an interesting graph from VAERS
> VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System put in place in 1990. It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only 1% of vaccine injuries.
> 
> 
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> Mortality - OpenVAERS
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> www.openvaers.com
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> 
> The graph shows over 6000 reported post vaccine deaths this year and we are only part way through the year. Previous years average around 300 to 400. However as you will no doubt notice, there is no mention of the number of vaccine doses.


Numbers like this are a relief because they demonstrate very clearly that the vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. That's a miniscule percentage of deaths compared to the number vaccinated. Driving to the clinic for vaccination carries a much higher risk than having an adverse reaction. Everyone on my husband's side of the family has been vaccinated for quite some time. My mother and several of my friends and family members were also vaccinated several months ago. One lady from our church was suffering from long Covid symptoms for several months until she got the vaccine, at which point her symptoms went away. Was it coincidence? Placebo effect? Or did the vaccine somehow help kick her immune system into gear? We'll probably never know but in any case I'm quite happy for her. 

Some elderly friends of ours ended up getting Covid in early May after a bunch of their friends and family had been encouraging them to get vaccinated. They were staunchly opposed until they got Covid. Then the husband ended up in the hospital three different times, and recovery has been long and slow. Now they're planning to get vaccinated as soon as their doctor recommends it, which is about 3 months after recovery. Naturally they got a bit of flack from their kids and grandkids who were all vaccinated back in March. When you're in your 80's, fearing a vaccine more than Covid seems a little ridiculous. 

As for me, I'm in the ambivalent camp. I'm not worried about Covid and I'm not worried about any of the folks I know who got the vaccine. Life is full of risks that we take every single day. Covid and vaccination both seem extremely low-risk compared to many of the other things I do like driving cars and riding horses. Most people take bigger risks all the time, so why all the hysteria?


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## Damfino

_Just ask yourself this question? Does big pharma care if you live or die?_
Not personally, but as a collective, absolutely! They want us to live way too long so they can sell us more drugs. 

_They can't cure the common cold_.
But they might be able to soon. The mRNA vaccine is actually a step in that direction. They've been working on it for decades now. 

_Flu shots only stop the strain of flu they were made for. Not the newer version._
And mRNA vaccines may actually spell an end to this fact that has frustrated scientists for years. 

_Cancer is a 3 trillion dollar industry a year_
Don't I know it! My dad just died of cancer after 10 years and it wasn't cheap keeping him alive that long. Without treatment he probably would have lasted only a year or two after diagnosis. Would that have been better? That's up to the individual to decide. 

_If you are concerned about what you eat... _
Not really... I drink a ton of Dr. Pepper. That should tell you something. _ 

why arent you concerned about whats in the medicine you take?_
Does not apply. I hardly ever take any kind of medicine. 

_How many billions of dollars do lawyers make off of Big Pharmas drug mistakes?_
Lawyers make way too much off of everything in our society. 

_Whats your life worth?_
Not much actually. You're talking to someone who enjoys horseback riding, cliff diving, snowmobiling, and swimming in wild rivers. One of the highlights of my life was driving in a demolition derby. My Covid mask went into my truck in May 2020 and to this day it has still never been washed. Apparently my life is not worth much at all. Which is probably why I'm so ambivalent about vaccination.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

FizzyGoats said:


> On the subject of Big Pharma trying actively kill people, I agree that’s not their intent. I do think they are acting hastily to get a big money grab and don’t know enough to call this safe but will hide behind any numbers they can, no matter how skewed to defend their profitable position.


Have drug companies skewed data to get their product out? I have no idea. As a cynic, I would not be surprised, but I doubt there is evidence at this point. I just want to make the obvious point that making a profit, in and of itself, is what all companies are about. It is what most of us try to do all the time. We go to work to make a profit. We invest to make a profit. Doing something for profit shouldn't influence the value of the something. 
Responsibility should also (or predominately) rest on governments and their medical oversight systems for allowing the use of the vaccines. They are the ones who have decided that what the drug companies have done in developing and testing is good enough under the circumstances.



FizzyGoats said:


> I also don’t believe COVID is normally life threatening for those in otherwise good health.


I agree with that. In my expert medical opinion ( I have absolutely no medical expertise) we should have concentrated on isolating the vulnerable population - the elderly, the sick, those with comorbidities - right from the start. Let the younger, healthy people go about their normal lives. They would have spread the virus though the younger population with relatively minor consequences. Most would now have natural immunity and probably not be susceptible to the new variants. But that is just my speculation.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> When you're in your 80's, fearing a vaccine more than Covid seems a little ridiculous.


Perhaps, but getting vaccines also seems to be more of a risk for elderly people.


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## toth boer goats

We can only warn people of the risk, whether they heed that warning is up to them. It is suppose to be their choice.

I really do not feel it is safe, too many health issues and death. 
I don’t think I need anymore proof. 
When any vaccine takes 1 life IMO is too many.

I also know many years ago FDA approval meant something and was it was safe for the most part.

Now a days, they don’t care about people, which is truly sad. 

I know with any vaccine, there is some loss, FDA isn’t up to what they once were. So I do agree with that part. 
The warnings on some products are much worse than the remedy.


Our children, grandchildren and family are important to all of us and for these people to just say, throw this vaccine on everyone and possibly lose a loved one, is just not worth it. 

For bosses to say to their employees, you have to get the vaccination or lose your job or we will pay you to get the vaccine is pushing it onto people who should have the right to choose whether or not they want it. 
This is wrong in itself.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Moers kiko boars said:


> Just ask yourself this question? Does big pharma care if you live or die?


I don't think the "big pharma" as a industry is capable of emotion any more than other industries. But that is just being pedantic. As* Damfino *points out, it is in their best interest to not kill off their customer. But lets go with the implied "big pharm does NOT care about my welfare". What does that have to do with the value or efficacy of one of the products. Even if "they" cared a great deal, that would not garentee that a product does not turn our to be dangerous.
Again, big pharma does not work in a vacuum. I think most responsibility is in the hands of governments who are the gate keepers.



Moers kiko boars said:


> If you are concerned about what you eat...why arent you concerned about whats in the medicine you take?


I am concerned. But my ability to determine what is in things which I consume (food or meds or ...) is limited to say the least,
What is in broccoli? How much of each component should I consume? What are the interactions of these components with what is in other things I consume? Where do the answers come from and can I trust the source. Ultimately we just run around believing some things and not believing other things.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

toth boer goats said:


> We can only warn people of the risk, whether they heed that warning is up to them. It is suppose to be their choice.


It is hard to make informed decisions when information is, at best incomplete, or worse, manipulated, skewed and politicized.



toth boer goats said:


> When any vaccine takes 1 life IMO is too many.


Don't you have to weigh the probable outcome of both taking and not taking the vaccine?


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## toth boer goats

Think of this, if the FDA doesn’t have their approval on the vaccine, doesn’t that tell you something?


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## Damfino

The vaccine DOES have FDA approval. Otherwise it wouldn't be available at all. It was approved under emergency use authorization because the government believed that the risk of Covid was far worse than the risk of the vaccine. Full approval will happen later this year. When that happens will it make you feel better?


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## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> What is in broccoli?


Poison! Don't ever touch the stuff! If George Bush Sr. was right about one thing, he was right about broccoli!


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Don't you have to way the probable outcome of both taking and not taking the vaccine?


That should be "weigh"! (Can you edit post??)


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Poison! Don't ever touch the stuff! If George Bush Sr. was right about one thing, he was right about broccoli!


Oh, come on.
A nice broccoli wrapped in kale? What's not to love?


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## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> That should be "weigh"! (Can you edit post??)


Hover over the three little dots at the top right corner of your post and click "Edit".


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Hover over the three little dots at the top right corner of your post and click "Edit".


Big thanks for that!


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## Moers kiko boars

Keep guessing @Damfino ... 🥰


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Keep guessing @Damfino ... 🥰


I think that's supposed to be a burn, but unfortunately I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to so it went over my head.


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## toth boer goats

Emergency isn’t the same, testing takes much longer for a true FDA approval and no, I will not have more confidence with their FDA so called approval.

Too many test subjects out there and a lot of bad outcomes because of it. 

We have our differences and that is ok, so I will leave it at that.


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## Moers kiko boars

No burn! Just haveing fun with you. Thats why it was a smiley face with hearts.


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## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> We can only warn people of the risk, whether they heed that warning is up to them. It is suppose to be their choice.
> 
> I really do not feel it is safe, too many health issues and death.
> I don’t think I need anymore proof.
> When any vaccine takes 1 life IMO is too many.
> 
> I also know many years ago FDA approval meant something and was it was safe for the most part.
> 
> Now a days, they don’t care about people, which is truly sad.
> 
> I know with any vaccine, there is some loss, FDA isn’t up to what they once were. So I do agree with that part.
> The warnings on some products are much worse than the remedy.
> 
> Our children, grandchildren and family are important to all of us and for these people to just say, throw this vaccine on everyone and possibly lose a loved one, is just not worth it.


It's funny how this exact same argument is used FOR vaccination: That "even one death is too many" and that exposing family members to a deadly virus is not worth it, etc. etc. As someone who doesn't have any particular opinion on virus vs. vaccination, I find it rather amusing. It's also why I refuse to tell anyone whether I've been vaccinated or not--I don't like the judgement coming from both sides. 

As for the FDA--I don't think there was ever a time when it was better. Since its inception there have been drugs approved by the FDA that have later been recalled--sometimes for major and obvious problems that were covered up because money. Big Pharma has existed even longer than the FDA, and the two have always been joined at the hip. So I'm with you that FDA approval doesn't mean much which is why I would never say that lack of FDA approval is a reason not to trust the vaccine. FDA approval is totally irrelevant if you don't trust the FDA. But unlike you, I see the extremely low number of post-vaccination deaths and permanent injury compared to the millions vaccinated as reassuring. Nothing in life is 100% safe and that's ok. I don't subscribe to the "one death is too many" argument. It's used on everything from viruses to vaccines, swimming pools, trampolines, household chemicals, and most often guns. It's not about one death being too many. It's about weighing opposing risks.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> No burn! Just haveing fun with you. Thats why it was a smiley face with hearts.


Sorry... the hearts and smileys don't show up on my computer and the joke went over my head in any case. 

But please do keep having fun... I enjoy making the world laugh even if it is at my expense (and no, I am not being sarcastic!).


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## AndersonRanch

I have not seen a single person judge another for getting the vaccine. Show concern? Absolutely! But not speak to, stay away from or any other judgmental crap no I have not seen. Can’t say the same for the other side. And when I say that no I do not mean everyone who has had the vaccine is judgmental about “doing your part to save the world and stop being so self centered” but enough that it is clearly one sided. I do NOT want the vaccine. I will NOT get the vaccine. The way I look at it is there is a huge difference between being a little more cautious about germs, which I never have been but now am lol and injecting a risk into my body. But that is me.
I also don’t think anyone has ever not seen even 1 death not being significant, it is the way it was handled that I have seen people have a issue with.


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## toth boer goats

1 life is precious is all I am saying, not saying people don’t die from vaccines or other RX etc, I know it happens.
You took it wrong on what I was trying to say there.

We are like goats butting heads, each wants to win the argument.
No one is wrong on how they feel, so there is no need to push it any farther. 


I am not going to keep up argument.
As I mentioned before, I will leave it there.


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## gabriella2000

toth boer goats said:


> The epidemic is not as bad as the numbers being thrown out there.
> 
> If someone dies or becomes ill they blame it on COVID to spike numbers.
> This is to scare you into getting the deadly vaccine.



Yes so true !


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## Damfino

AndersonRanch said:


> I have not seen a single person judge another for getting the vaccine. Show concern? Absolutely! But not speak to, stay away from or any other judgmental crap no I have not seen.


Wish I could say the same... 
I was kind of mad when a lady in our church recoiled from my mother and pulled her handshake away when she said she'd just been vaccinated. And then there's this other lady who kept sending me scare-mongering videos about how vaccinated people are dangerous to the health of everyone around them and should be avoided. She's a weird one anyway so maybe I should tell her I'm vaccinated just to make her stay away from me (but that would violate my anti-disclosure policy). A few others treat vaccinated people with suspicion and ugly side-eyes. It's all a little unnerving. Years ago I thought liberals were the only ones who got too emotional and overreacted to everything. Unfortunately conservatives keep proving that they can be just as stupid. They're all nuts!


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## goathiker

🤷 Vaccines can be leaky. Why do you think that you can't take your newly vaccinated baby to see their grandparents for at least 3 weeks? 
Since there's no data studies, nobody knows. 

It is funny to me that someone who would ridicule another person for their choice of words, when you couldn't possibly know that they spent some time in Australia as a young teen, would advocate for tolerance. 

Here we have a flippant remark that seriously hurt my feelings and a lot of scared people who have no idea what is really going on because we aren't really being told anything. Maybe, sometimes, tolerance needs to go both ways.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I was kind of mad when a lady in our church recoiled from my mother and pulled her handshake away when she said she'd just been vaccinated. And then there's this other lady who kept sending me scare-mongering videos about how vaccinated people are dangerous to the health of everyone around them and should be avoided.


Wow. That is strange. I know I lead a sheltered life, but I'm surprised I have not head about some people thinking that vaccinated people are dangerous. What is the danger? Nanobots?



Damfino said:


> Years ago I thought liberals were the only ones who got too emotional and overreacted to everything. Unfortunately conservatives keep proving that they can be just as stupid. They're all nuts!


There is no doubt that there are "nuts" in all camps. But they are usually a tiny proportion of a given group. To say "they are all nuts" seems like an emotional overreaction.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

goathiker said:


> Vaccines can be leaky.


Please explain.


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## FizzyGoats

For sure. I think most of us in this thread (if not all) can agree that tolerance needs to go both ways. 

And also, both sides have their radicals. Both sides can take equally distributing stances to those looking across the dividing line. 

Now I’m just surmising with this type of vaccine (still think it’s misnamed) it shouldn’t be harmful to anyone around those who recently received it as it’s not a weakened or inert form of the virus. But who knows? It’s so new. And I’m not an expert, my little brain just can’t see the physiology of how the transfer would happen.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

FizzyGoats said:


> tolerance needs to go both ways.


No question that tolerance is usually a virtue and should be practiced more by many of us. Tolerance does not mean we should accept what everyone says at face value. Tolerance does not mean you should not put forth countering ideas.


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## Damfino

A few years back when I first learned about vaccine shedding, I read that only vaccines with live virus/bacteria can shed/leak. I don't believe that has changed. The Covid vaccine doesn't contain any live virus.


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## ksalvagno

But we honestly have no idea what this spike protein does or doesn't do. It is a computer generated sequence and similar to other proteins in our body since coronavirus has never been isolated. The next 2-5 years ought to be interesting.


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## Tanya

I believe the only way any one will know what is going on when there is a herd immunity. The first 10 naturally immune humans will show the true virus


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Interesting interview:









The MARTINZ Critical Review - Ep#75 - The overwhelming safety risks of experimental mRNA vaccines vs the safe and effective early treatment of Covid-19 - with Dr Peter McCullough, MD by The MARTINZ Critical Review


Greetings Listeners! In today’s program we continue our series on the conservation of humanity, exploring the wuhan flu covid-19 pandemic and specifically exploring the mRNA vaccines, dissecting what they really are, their potential risks and side effects, and whether they provide any benefits...




anchor.fm


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## Moers kiko boars

Well we are getting ready to go through another surge. The Delta Covid 19..is also B1916..is higher in potency,more lethal. It doesnt matter if you are vacinnated for covid 19 or not. It has entered the U.S. 
Please be cautious, treat others with respect & distance. 
Im retired medical, so please take care of yourself. Whatever your opinions, choices, or lack of, please be safe.


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## Tanya

Moers kiko boars said:


> Well we are getting ready to go through another surge. The Delta Covid 19..is also B1916..is higher in potency,more lethal. It doesnt matter if you are vacinnated for covid 19 or not. It has entered the U.S.
> Please be cautious, treat others with respect & distance.
> Im retired medical, so please take care of yourself. Whatever your opinions, choices, or lack of, please be safe.


This has hit us as a third wave. It is indiscriminate and it takes all spectrums. Its more aggressive and works much quicker. Be safe


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## Goats Rock

Whatever ones views are on the shots- pro or con, I don't think anyone has the right to force anyone else to get a shot or not. 
But, everyone does have the right to be safe from catching Covid 19 and all its varieties. So, if one is sick or feeling "off", they shouldn't
go out in public and if you are in public, don't be in groups face to face- Use common sense, wash hands etc. 

DH got the shot and has been fine. DIL got one and so sick, they recommend her be cautious about the 2nd. I still stay socially isolated with my 
goats, so we will see what the future brings.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Goats Rock said:


> they recommend her be cautious about the 2nd.


What would that even mean? It seems there are only two options. Get the second shot or .... don't. 

I don't understand the recommendation "they" gave her.


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## AndersonRanch

The second shot hits so much harder then the first one so “they” are concerned that with her showing a reaction with the first shot the second one is going to be, well to be frank hell since it’s already harsh. My friend, brother and sister in law all are vaccinated. Brother and sister were fine for the first shot and sick for 12 hours later for 24 hours. My friend just felt tired after the first shot but we like a constant flu like symptoms and increased heart rate for almost 3 days after


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## FizzyGoats

My understanding of the theory on why the second shot is worse for some is because the protein spikes that are “coded” in to our cells teach our immune system to react quickly and aggressively (beautiful in theory and what it’s supposed to do) but it can go to the side of over-activating our lymphocytes which can cause severe and painful symptoms. And every time a protein spike like that pops up (which with the vaccine can potentially happen anywhere our blood goes - brain, heart, etc - unlike the virus - mainly stays in the nose, throat, and lungs- at least this wave of it…not sure about the one coming) our immune system (which has a long memory) is going to react faster and stronger each time. So if boosters are needed later, yearly, biannually, whatever, I feel really bad for the people who have had bad reactions to the initial shots. If the theories are right, they will feel worse after each one. 

Hopefully the medical community will come out with a standard for a supportive care routine that really works for those who want the shot but are suffering through harsh symptom. 

I’m not in a high risk group, I don’t see the science satisfactorily worked out (my opinion), so I’ll steer clear for now. But I feel bad for those who either are high risk or jut feel better getting vaccinated and are having to endure some really miserable effects.


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## luvmyherd

My reaction to both shots was about the same. Sore arm and slight fever and tired for a few days.
As a nearly 70yo who intends to travel a lot this summer; I felt it was the right choice. (Unless the new strain ruins another summer.)


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## FizzyGoats

Oh gosh, I hope another summer is not locked down. I never leave my house, so it doesn’t affect me much.  But I’m glad you did well with the shots and I hope you get to travel!


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## Tanya

And here the Europian Union has introduced its COVID digital certificate. Cannot travel without it. Either you are tested negative, been vaccinated or recovered and have proof of recovery. Either way you must be tested. And its easier to get the certificate if you are vaccinated. And they only accept three vaccine types and no other.


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## FizzyGoats

Oh wow. That’s heavy handed to say the least. What test are they using to see if one “tests negative?” And what is proof of recovery?
That just makes my chest tighten. I have no problem with people choosing to get vaccinated or to remain unvaccinated. I have a real problem when people are strong armed into a decision.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

AndersonRanch said:


> The second shot hits so much harder then the first one so “they” are concerned that with her showing a reaction with the first shot the second one is going to be, well to be frank hell since it’s already harsh. My friend, brother and sister in law all are vaccinated. Brother and sister were fine for the first shot and sick for 12 hours later for 24 hours. My friend just felt tired after the first shot but we like a constant flu like symptoms and increased heart rate for almost 3 days after


Oh, I understand that the second shot often causes more severe reactions than the first. I just don't understand the advice to be "cautious". I can be cautious when I go downtown at night by being more aware of other people, by not going into dark alleys, by not engaging in contentious conversations with strangers, etc. But how can one be cautious when getting a jab? Carefully watch the needle go? Ask them to inject you very slowly? Wear a leather jacket? I just think it was a completely pointless, unhelpful, meaningless recommendation from the healthcare worker. Maybe just tell her to be prepared to get even more sick next time.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Tanya said:


> And here the Europian Union has introduced its COVID digital certificate. Cannot travel without it. Either you are tested negative, been vaccinated or recovered and have proof of recovery. Either way you must be tested. And its easier to get the certificate if you are vaccinated. And they only accept three vaccine types and no other.


Sorry, but I'm confused. You are in South Africa, right? How is the EU introducing anything? Or do you mean you need the certificate to travel to EU countries? Or is South Africa just adopting EU recommendations?

I any case, the COVID restrictions and responses applied by governments are becoming more frightening.


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## Damfino

From what I've heard (and this includes a lot of anecdotal evidence from vaccinated friends/family) whether the first or second shot hits you harder usually depends on whether you had Covid or not. If you had Covid, the first shot causes a reaction because your body is already primed to fight the virus. The booster ends up not causing much of an effect. I guess the body knocks it down quickly and quietly without overreacting with a bunch of symptoms. A lot of doctors have questioned the value of giving the additional booster shot to people who had Covid since their first vaccine was essentially their booster. 

If you haven't had Covid, it's the second shot that usually gives trouble since the body is primed to fight the threat but is not yet efficient at it. That's my very basic understanding anyway. 

It will be interesting to see whether boosters given a year later cause more, less, or similar reactions to the first round of shots. Most of the folks I know who got vaccinated had pretty mild reactions, but still more than what one should expect from a "perfected" vaccine. The first model of anything is almost never the best and I expect that over the next few years these vaccines will be improved to the point where they won't be any worse than a typical flu or tetanus shot. Sore arm and maybe a bit of fatigue but not bad enough to make someone miss work or stay in bed. I wouldn't be surprised if they're "overdosing" these first generation vaccines a bit and they could probably achieve sufficient immunity with a lower viral dose.


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## Damfino

To clarify a bit on what I said earlier, I was miffed at the lady who recoiled from my vaccinated mom, not because of her perception of danger (she's entitled to her beliefs) but because of her hypocrisy. I live in a place where people aren't scared of the virus. Many of us got it in late winter/early spring 2020 and we recovered. The social distancing rules, mask mandates, limits on gathering sizes, etc. were mocked and largely ignored. It was widely believed that people who were afraid of the virus needed to keep themselves safe rather than depend on society to bend over backwards to try to protect them. If you don't want to get Covid, stay home. If you think masks work, wear one. But don't expect everyone else who already had the virus or weren't afraid of getting it to cater to your fears. That was the attitude that everyone, including this lady held. 

But now that some are afraid of vaccinated people, they don't want to follow their own protocols. Rather than stay home, wear a mask, wear gloves, etc. they want and expect people around them to conform to their anti-vaccine beliefs. If the woman is afraid of vaccinated people, she should not attend social gatherings like church anymore because lots of people there are vaccinated. She can't expect _them_ to stay home, maintain social distance, wear a mask, etc. to keep _her_ safe from their vaccination! That's just hypocrisy. 

In the end I think it's important to remember that people will always act like people. We can't _expect_ anyone around us to keep us safe even if we believe it would be polite for them to do so. Over the past year I've seen angry outbursts over improper mask wearing, people standing closer than six feet, people gathering outside in a crowd larger than ten, people daring to sneeze or cough in public, people not making their children follow protocols, people not sanitizing enough or properly, etc. All of this is based on an unreasonable expectation for people (collective) to keep individuals "safe" in a world where people do not all share the same values or have the same experiences. When I go out, I don't expect anyone else to keep me safe. I fully expect to see masks around necks, people jostling me, people coughing and sneezing into the air, people going about in public while obviously sick, people wiping their nose and then touching everything, children running amok, etc. It's just human behavior. You either have to embrace it and laugh at it or hide from it because you can't scold it out of existence.


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## Tanya

Mike. It was on the France24 news channel. Its only traveling to EU destinations from outer lying countries etc


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## luvmyherd

Well, we are all about at our wit's end. We made an appointment for our Covid test 72 hours out. After all 7 of us had probed our brains; the lady said that because of the Holiday weekend the results would not be ready in time!
After a few moments of panic we gathered our senses and my daughter started making calls. If we waited until flight day it would cost $250 EACH!! We could drive to Oakland (over an hour away) at 8 this AM and get it for $90; so that is what we did.
The lady was very sweet and told us not to worry, they would get us to Hawaii!!
So, most of the stress is over (unless somebody is positive). I just can't believe that in just 2 more days; vaccinated people will not have to go through this at all!!!


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## luvmyherd

Well, we all tested negative!! And the results have been uploaded. Biggest hurdles are past. We are leaving this evening to spend the night in San Francisco and if all goes well we should be smelling the white ginger at the Honolulu Airport about this time tomorrow


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## Tanya

Luvmyherd oh I wish I were you. Its fun to go on holiday.
And when are you going to get your herd back?


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## luvmyherd

It is sad about our livestock. We were walking in the pasture yesterday and everyone was talking about much we miss the goats and other animals. But the reality is; we just travel too much to properly care for them.
Covid has kept us home for most of the past year+ but that has just given us the itch to hit the road! Maybe in a few years we we will want to settle down again.


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## Tanya

Livestock will always be in your blood. I know how you feel about going on holiday and travelling. We dont travel much either due to the rescue. I know you will settle and we look forward to see your new herd.


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## luvmyherd

That is so sweet. Yes! It is in our blood.
Just chilling' on our lanai with the ocean view right now. Everything has gone so well it is almost scary.


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## luvmyherd

Here on Oahu many restrictions have been lifted but for the most part; people are staying masked inside and often outside when it is crowded. We feel pretty comfortable as people coming in are either fully vaxxed or have tested negative.
I did not even know that the program my daughter put us in (that caused us major headaches) was voluntary. It saved us from even bigger headaches!! Our prescreening tests gave us a fastpass and we walked off the plane past a line that stretched through the airport and would have taken hours!!! (I bought her a special thank you gift yesterday.)
This trip can so far be rated a success in spite of a few bumps. (Like the toilet in the condo is not working and we can't call for repairs as we are slightly over the number of people who are supposed to be staying here.) I only look forward to going home because in 2 weeks we will be off to AR to see my sister and then on to MI to see the grandchildren we have not seen for 2 years due to this stinking virus/plague.


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## toth boer goats




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## Tanya

A toilet is a small inconvenience. Glad you were able to get past the que.

Here our level 4 lockdown is extended by another 24 days.


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## luvmyherd

I am sorry to hear that Tanya. I read that California has renewed mask requirements at the capital due to new cases. That pesky Delta variant! Like most of the world; I am so ready to be done with this😠


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## Tanya

Well. The girls and I are pretty much happy. Its quiet and less starving abandoned animals. So I am happy. 
I am am so done too. I cant remember what normal is any more


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## luvmyherd

Yes, the toilet situation is a mere inconvenience. But don't tell the younger ones that. You would think we were asking them to dig a latrine on the beach. All it takes is tossing in a bucket of water to make sure everything goes down.
Hopefully we will all have some _normal_ soon.


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## Boers4ever

Well guys I went to church camp last week. Turns out a friend that I went with came in contact with the virus. Then we all came home and went to church. Without knowing it we spread it to her family and most of the church members. So please pray for all of us. I haven’t been to the dr yet and haven’t ran bad fever. So hopefully I won’t have to go. But several people in our church is sick too and they were tested positive. So I know I have it. 
On the more comical side, my mom walked in on me laying on my bed watching Netflix on my phone and drinking lemon water. I looked at her and said: “mom I know what I want to be after I graduate” she said “what?” I said “a hermit!!”
Another comical story that happened today: my mom gave me a thermometer. I sat it on my desk, and then I saw the GOAT thermometer on my desk. So I gave my mother a big ol grin, held it up, and said “better put this one the the goat box, before I get them confused!!” She walked out of my room gagging.


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## Tanya

Oh man. Here is praying you are going to walk through this with no problems.


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## goathiker

DH hires a lot of older people in the shop. 2 have lost the use of their knee on whichever side they have the most inflammation from age. One, a young excon, his wife delivered their baby at 21 weeks. 3 out of 9 employees gone, these happened directly after the first dose of vaccine. 
My mom's been having horrible nightmares and bad sleep. We think that the vaccine is reactive to her Parkinson's medication. 
I don't know, but in my world the fragile people are having trouble. 

I do feel bad for the young excon. He had turned everything around, and now he's going to be in debt the rest of his life.


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## ksalvagno

Lots of vitamin C. Vitamin D. Zinc. Quercetin. That is what you should be taking. 

That is a shame that so many have been permanently affected from the vaccine.


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## goathiker

I honestly don't know what vaccine the workers got. The modena vaccine seems to be the less harmful, the Johnson vaccine has been outlawed here.


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## ksalvagno

The Covid shots appear worse than the virus and no way to be compensated if you are permanently injured from it.


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## toth boer goats

It is awful.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

In many discussions about mask wearing, one argument is: If masks were useless why do they wear them in operating rooms? Would you want them to operate on you without wearing masks?

Well ..... maybe.

*Disposable surgical face masks for preventing surgical wound infection in clean surgery *

*Main results: * 
We included three trials, involving a total of 2106 participants. There was no statistically significant difference in infection rates between the masked and unmasked group in any of the trials. 

*Authors' conclusions: * 
From the limited results it is unclear whether the wearing of surgical face masks by members of the surgical team has any impact on surgical wound infection rates for patients undergoing clean surgery.


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## ksalvagno

The surgical masks are for stopping spit and snot from going into open incisions. There is no proof that it stops bacteria and virus.


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## Moers kiko boars

Every bit of cleanliness in ,around, and upon the patient in surgery helps diminish infection. Read some medical history if you want a eye opening education. See how.much you can stomach. 
As far as the vaccine is concerned. The human population just became the largest petre dish test in history. Thats why there is no financial compensation. Its AT YOUR OWN RISK! They CDC, WHO, AMA and all the other fine organizations DO NOT know the outcome. The rest is hype. Herd immunity or herd control¿ or fear to implement mob mentality. Its all Unknown.


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## Damfino

Masks as worn in operating rooms are a completely different beast than masks as worn by the public. For one thing, medical personnel have specific training in proper mask use, which tells us that proper mask use does not come naturally to people and is not normally practiced. For another thing, masks in operating rooms are supposed to be sterile and untouched, which is a far cry from the filthy rags people shove in and out of their purses and pockets, pull out from under the car seat, drop on the floor, and constantly handle by the face instead of only ever touching the ear loops. If a person can use and wear a mask properly and responsibly, I think masks can be very useful. On the other hand, if they use and wear them the way me and most of the people I see use them, then we're all in big trouble.


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## Damfino

Boers4ever said:


> Well guys I went to church camp last week. Turns out a friend that I went with came in contact with the virus. Then we all came home and went to church. Without knowing it we spread it to her family and most of the church members. So please pray for all of us. I haven’t been to the dr yet and haven’t ran bad fever. So hopefully I won’t have to go. But several people in our church is sick too and they were tested positive. So I know I have it.
> On the more comical side, my mom walked in on me laying on my bed watching Netflix on my phone and drinking lemon water. I looked at her and said: “mom I know what I want to be after I graduate” she said “what?” I said “a hermit!!”
> Another comical story that happened today: my mom gave me a thermometer. I sat it on my desk, and then I saw the GOAT thermometer on my desk. So I gave my mother a big ol grin, held it up, and said “better put this one the the goat box, before I get them confused!!” She walked out of my room gagging.


I hope you guys feel better soon, and in the meantime watch out for those goat thermometers!


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> DH hires a lot of older people in the shop. 2 have lost the use of their knee on whichever side they have the most inflammation from age. One, a young excon, his wife delivered their baby at 21 weeks. 3 out of 9 employees gone, these happened directly after the first dose of vaccine.
> My mom's been having horrible nightmares and bad sleep. We think that the vaccine is reactive to her Parkinson's medication.
> I don't know, but in my world the fragile people are having trouble.
> 
> I do feel bad for the young excon. He had turned everything around, and now he's going to be in debt the rest of his life.


That's too bad. It will be interesting to see what comes down the pipeline not only from the vaccine but also from Covid. My older friends who came down with it in April are now moving to a lower elevation. They have severe enough long-term effects that they can't handle the altitude now. The virus really took it out of them and they wish they'd gotten the vaccine instead of the illness. I know several others who are elderly who are having bad long-term effects from their bouts with Covid, but of course they were in poor health already so it's no surprise. None of the healthy people I know who got Covid are suffering long-term problems from it. So far no one I know who got vaccinated is having problems either though so I can't say the vaccine is worse than the disease. Actually, in my personal observation it looks like the disease is definitely worse than the vaccine, but of course the long-term safety of the vaccine can't be proven for another decade or so and there is worrisome evidence that some people are having a bad time with it now (I just don't know any personally).


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> I honestly don't know what vaccine the workers got. The modena vaccine seems to be the less harmful, the Johnson vaccine has been outlawed here.


The J&J vaccine was only banned for a short time in April. As far as I can tell, Oregon re-approved it after about a 10-day suspension. It causes blood clots in some women but they decided that since birth control pills cause an even higher incidence of blood clots and they are still approved, this side effect wasn't enough to justify banning the vaccine unless they also want to ban birth control pills (and that sure ain't gonna happen!).


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## DDFN

Trying to get caught up on threads. Hope everyone is doing ok after the start of this pandemic. There are so many things say for both sides if the vaccines but when my mother went to get hers the lady infront had a reaction to it. They had to call an ambulance and rush the lady to the hospital. Mom still went ahead with hers since she is high risk and the doctor reassured her that reaction was rare. 

I wish things were different and oh how times have changed. I use my time more wisely and spend as much time with my parents as I can since they are getting older these days. 

Stay safe and healthy to you all. For those sick best wishes fora speedy recovery.


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## alwaystj9

We are beginning to lock back down at work.
I was out on the town with my daughter and her guy yesterday and saw about 30% masked patrons but all the store & restaurant personnel were masked.
First time I went to the mall in almost 3 years. I have not missed it.
The worst part was getting home and discovering that I had worn my tshirt inside out all day and no one told me.
I am not particularly vain but I try to keep myself at least neat.


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## FizzyGoats

If it makes you feel any better, I once wore my slight v-neck t-shirt backward all day once. I swear some days my mind is broken. Maybe they thought you were starting a new fashion trend.


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## EJskeleton

😂 that’s okay. I’ve seen someone once wear a T-shirt backwards and inside out. At least it wasn’t your pants that were inside out. I’ve made that mistake countless of times. 😬😖


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## NigerianNewbie

Many years ago, received a late night phone, hurriedly got everything needing to be done taken care and left home. Several hours later I was asked to look down at my shoes. Both feet were wearing a black shoe, socks matched..... Checked the bottoms and nope, hadn't stepped in anything..... Then, noticed the differences in the soles! OMG one foot had on a black hiking type boot and the other foot sported a black reebok tennis shoe.


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## Damfino

EJskeleton said:


> 😂 that’s okay. I’ve seen someone once wear a T-shirt backwards and inside out. At least it wasn’t your pants that were inside out. I’ve made that mistake countless of times. 😬😖


The backwards and inside-out t-shirt? That would be me. But how the heck do you wear pants inside-out and not notice when you go to button them and pull up the zipper?


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## EJskeleton

Damfino said:


> The backwards and inside-out t-shirt? That would be me. But how the heck do you wear pants inside-out and not notice when you go to button them and pull up the zipper?


😂 yeah... I meant by pants that don’t have zippers, not jeans. I hate wearing pants that have zippers.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Masks as worn in operating rooms are a completely different beast than masks as worn by the public. For one thing, medical personnel have specific training in proper mask use, which tells us that proper mask use does not come naturally to people and is not normally practiced. For another thing, masks in operating rooms are supposed to be sterile and untouched, which is a far cry from the filthy rags people shove in and out of their purses and pockets, pull out from under the car seat, drop on the floor, and constantly handle by the face instead of only ever touching the ear loops. If a person can use and wear a mask properly and responsibly, I think masks can be very useful. On the other hand, if they use and wear them the way me and most of the people I see use them, then we're all in big trouble.


Absolutely.
I love seeing the people who wear their masks UNDER their nose, just covering their mouth. What is the point of that?
The fact that there are no mask standards, makes me wonder about the point of the whole exercise. As long as you wear a mask. It does not matter what it is made of or how well it fits.
At the clinic, where I go for blood tests, the staff makes everyone wear the "surgical" masks before they come in. So draw your own conclusions about the value of wearing "homemade" masks.


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## Tanya

Here masks are compulsory. If you wear your mask incorrectly you can recieve a fine.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Tanya said:


> Here masks are compulsory. If you wear your mask incorrectly you can recieve a fine.


It would be interesting to see how the law is written (in layman's terms) and whether there is a law as to what constitutes a proper mask. I don't actually know if we (in Canada) have such laws. We must.


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## Tindi

I still see people wearing bandanas and wearing masks below their nose lol what’s the point.


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## Damfino

Tanya said:


> Here masks are compulsory. If you wear your mask incorrectly you can recieve a fine.


The problem with keeping a mask on your face properly for long hours at a time is that you have to reach up and readjust it, and for most folks that involves grabbing it by the soggy wet front and shoving it up their face several times an hour. 

This is where the pee analogy breaks down. If people were peeing their pants and then walking around dripping everywhere and constantly picking at those soggy wedgies before handling all the things everyone else is handling, it kind of makes "splash prevention" moot. People who wear masks need to have a personal, vested interest in wearing them properly. Otherwise their poor mask hygiene and improper wearing and handling techniques put them at higher risk than if they wore no mask at all (just my opinion).


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## Damfino

EJskeleton said:


> 😂 yeah... I meant by pants that don’t have zippers, not jeans. I hate wearing pants that have zippers.


Ah. Except for pajamas, I don't even own a pair of pants without zippers! I refuse to wear any kind of stretch pants in public (I was a '90's kid--we made fun of '80's stretch styles). Funny how we all have our preferences!


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> The problem with keeping a mask on your face properly for long hours at a time is that you have to reach up and readjust it, and for most folks that involves grabbing it by the soggy wet front and shoving it up their face several times an hour.


If you have any kind of stubble on your face, then the mask will work its way down very quickly when you talk or otherwise move your mouth. Several times an hour becomes many times a minute.


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## Tindi

Sometimes the masks creep down because the mask doesn’t fit properly and they need a larger size.


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## luvmyherd

We are still wearing masks inside as a personal choice. There is just too much unknown right now. Luckily I do not go out very often.
I did have a hard time in Hawaii. Between sunscreen and masks my face was really itching by the time we left. The residents were very compliant and I wondered how they could stand it for so long.
I know that in California; even where there are mask mandates, it is not enforced.


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## DDFN

Has anyone seen that they are now working towards requiring vaccines for federal workers? They just had an announcement telling people masks are being required again and they are working to force vaccinations. I have a big concern for people that can not and should not be vaccinated for allergic reaction issues. Nothing should be forced and I feel it's illegal to imply it will be required. If something goes wrong they can't sue or have the medical care covered. They are now offering money to be vaccinated too.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well here in Tulsa Okla. St Francis hospital lost its legal right to mandate employees to be vaccinated. Its a H.I.P.P.A. violation.


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## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> Well here in Tulsa Okla. St Francis hospital lost its legal right to mandate employees to be vaccinated. Its a H.I.P.P.A. violation.


Did someone sue them over it?


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## Moers kiko boars

It was taken to court. I dont know if it was an individual or a group.


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## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> It was taken to court. I dont know if it was an individual or a group.


Well at least that is good to hear.

Yeah last year some places around here refused to tell anyone who had it and it got to be a big hippa thing, but then when people were exposed they stopped having them QT. My aunt worked in Labor and Delivery and when her husband had covid they refused to let her QT. Therefore all those delivering and new born babies were exposed. She even had contacted HR at the hospital and it was a sorry you still have to come in.


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## toth boer goats

Fight back, if you do not want to be vaccinated don’t let them. 

The more who join in the fight, the more the chance you would win.

It should not be forced with bribery or by demand.


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## Tanya

Here we are already speaking of it being compulsory to be vaccinated so you can be employed. And they will fire you if tou refuse.


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## DDFN

Tanya said:


> Here we are already speaking of it being compulsory to be vaccinated so you can be employed. And they will fire you if tou refuse.


Can I ask what state or country you are in?


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## Tanya

DDFN said:


> Can I ask what state or country you are in?


I live in South Africa


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## DDFN

Tanya said:


> I live in South Africa


Ok, can that be legal there? Everything lately is surprising me. 

Can I ask how long you have lived there? We have some distance family from around Cameroon and a few friends from college from the Ivory Coast. Just not any down in South Africa. Did covid hit your area hard?


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## Tanya

DDFN said:


> Ok, can that be legal there? Everything lately is surprising me.
> 
> Can I ask how long you have lived there? We have some distance family from around Cameroon and a few friends from college from the Ivory Coast. Just not any down in South Africa. Did covid hit your area hard?


I have live here all my life. According to our constitution no it is not legal. But we want to follow in the footsteps of the EU only worse. In the beginning it was tame but this variant is terrible. Personally I had this thing 5 times. I am only now recovering. I am continuously ill and in quarentene. The only good thing. I can sell my anti bodies. I hate needles and am not allowed to give blood due to the fact that I had cancer


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> I have live here all my life. According to our constitution no it is not legal. But we want to follow in the footsteps of the EU only worse. In the beginning it was tame but this variant is terrible. Personally I had this thing 5 times. I am only now recovering. I am continuously ill and in quarentene. The only good thing. I can sell my anti bodies. I hate needles and am not allowed to give blood due to the fact that I had cancer


Oh my 5 times! Glad your recovering but sorry your still ill. How long do you all have to QT? Over here they only allow 10 days off of work but it requires a positive test to have those 10 days. Then again I am a teacher, other places may be different. 

I had one friend that had it. They did the antibodies thing but was told they did not know how long before they could donate blood again. They wouldn't take blood donations from covid patient's. Hoping this means you also recovered from cancer too and not still dealing with it. 

Hope your health continues to improve and take care!


----------



## AndersonRanch

DDFN said:


> Has anyone seen that they are now working towards requiring vaccines for federal workers? They just had an announcement telling people masks are being required again and they are working to force vaccinations. I have a big concern for people that can not and should not be vaccinated for allergic reaction issues. Nothing should be forced and I feel it's illegal to imply it will be required. If something goes wrong they can't sue or have the medical care covered. They are now offering money to be vaccinated too.


California is attempting that with healthcare workers and state employees. They either show proof of being vaccinated or get tested weekly and wear a mask. At first I was slightly annoyed by this being when my husband was tested he had bad nose bleeds for 2 weeks after, so he would have constant nose bleeds. Then I started thinking how stupid that really is. He just got off a fire that he was gone for 2 weeks on. Most of those two weeks he stayed out on the fire and didn’t even come in to sleep since any hotel was 4 hours away. So when they start this what are they going to do? Pull him off the fire? Which means that 4 dozers are shut down because he’s not there? Send some tester person to hike threw the woods and fire to go test him? What is their stupid plan here? It will be kinda entertaining to see how they handle this with the firefighters in the middle of summer and most of the state burning. He is not the only one that has not had the vaccine, most of the firefighters that do not go on medical aids are not vaccinated because the risk of catching it is fairly slim. Although that man has been up close and personal with 2 people that did end up with it and has yet to get it.


----------



## Sfgwife

Moers kiko boars said:


> Well here in Tulsa Okla. St Francis hospital lost its legal right to mandate employees to be vaccinated. Its a H.I.P.P.A. violation.


Our “wonderful” governor this week.... said in his briefing that employers need to be requiring vax proof from their employees and if they did not complythey would need require weekly testing...... yea the people of NC will not be doing that easily lol! Paul and i were talkin a few nights ago and said that within the next two weeks the gov will TRY to shut it all down again. That too will not go over well at all.


----------



## DDFN

AndersonRanch said:


> California is attempting that with healthcare workers and state employees. They either show proof of being vaccinated or get tested weekly and wear a mask. At first I was slightly annoyed by this being when my husband was tested he had bad nose bleeds for 2 weeks after, so he would have constant nose bleeds. Then I started thinking how stupid that really is. He just got off a fire that he was gone for 2 weeks on. Most of those two weeks he stayed out on the fire and didn’t even come in to sleep since any hotel was 4 hours away. So when they start this what are they going to do? Pull him off the fire? Which means that 4 dozers are shut down because he’s not there? Send some tester person to hike threw the woods and fire to go test him? What is their stupid plan here? It will be kinda entertaining to see how they handle this with the firefighters in the middle of summer and most of the state burning. He is not the only one that has not had the vaccine, most of the firefighters that do not go on medical aids are not vaccinated because the risk of catching it is fairly slim. Although that man has been up close and personal with 2 people that did end up with it and has yet to get it.


Oh my! First off hats off to him for being a fire fighter, let alone one out doing the hard work of those wild life fire fighting. Is that his normal calls? Those men and women are true heros!

I do wonder how they plan to do that testing. I saw on the news one California school is going to require both vaccinated and unvaccinated staff, teachers and students to be tested weekly. To the point one parent was sharing they pulled they children from the public school changing to home schooling now. 

I hope they can get the fires under control soon.


----------



## DDFN

Sfgwife said:


> Our “wonderful” governor this week.... said in his briefing that employers need to be requiring vax proof from their employees and if they did not complythey would need require weekly testing...... yea the people of NC will not be doing that easily lol! Paul and i were talkin a few nights ago and said that within the next two weeks the gov will TRY to shut it all down again. That too will not go over well at all.


So what will they do and require for those that can not take the vaccine I wonder? Also we are still a free country and non-military so it seems illegal to even mention requiring it. Still waiting for the future tv ads about class action law suits for the vaccine, but everyone here has to sign a form basically saying you will not sue anyone from taking the shot.


----------



## AndersonRanch

He and other fire fighters are tough that’s for sure. I like to think I’m fairly tough but just going out there doing normal chores in the summer almost kills me, I can’t imagine cutting line and dealing with the heat of the fires. 
Yes he is now a HFEO (heavy fire equipment operator) so he doesn’t do medical aids any more. He strictly does operating, mechanical stuff and any little projects they have going on. I think his last project was putting line in on a high risk mountain so it’s already there if a fire breaks. 
I sure hope they don’t try to make it mandatory for school. My son needs to go to school, he will not thrive on homeschool. So fingers crossed that doesn’t happen. My daughter is the total opposite and has done great on homeschool so I just have to get my 15 year old son threw this and then he can make his own choices.


----------



## Damfino

Since it's only paper and there's no central database (and much too late to retroactively make one now), anyone can get proof of vaccination, but it doesn't mean they actually got vaccinated. That's the irony of all this--it will just make for a thriving black market in phony vaccination cards.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> Since it's only paper and there's no central database (and much too late to retroactively make one now), anyone can get proof of vaccination, but it doesn't mean they actually got vaccinated. That's the irony of all this--it will just make for a thriving black market in phony vaccination cards.


With this comment about black market vaccine cards and your avatar picture I just giggled a bit thinking if anyone starts this service it may be you! Lol


----------



## DDFN

AndersonRanch said:


> He and other fire fighters are tough that’s for sure. I like to think I’m fairly tough but just going out there doing normal chores in the summer almost kills me, I can’t imagine cutting line and dealing with the heat of the fires.
> Yes he is now a HFEO (heavy fire equipment operator) so he doesn’t do medical aids any more. He strictly does operating, mechanical stuff and any little projects they have going on. I think his last project was putting line in on a high risk mountain so it’s already there if a fire breaks.
> I sure hope they don’t try to make it mandatory for school. My son needs to go to school, he will not thrive on homeschool. So fingers crossed that doesn’t happen. My daughter is the total opposite and has done great on homeschool so I just have to get my 15 year old son threw this and then he can make his own choices.


I hope they don't either. I am a teacher but worry about long term side effects in the youth. Even saw were some children died from inflamed heart after injection. 

Good for your husband! Fire fighters are a different breed of people but even the best will get stressed at all the medical calls. Have either of you came crossed the Fire Dept Chronicles on YouTube? That guy is a fire fighter and has some funny true things about the daily work life. I worked pathology in a hospital in my past careers and the things those first responders, fire fighters and emts have to see on medical calls can be shocking at times. Glad there are those willing to do it but having to see death and severe injuries multiple times a day is not something I would want for a profession. 

One of the main reasons I left vet tech work was how much it was harden my heart to animals injuries and death.

Hoping your husband and his coworkers stay safe and the children as well at school.


----------



## Damfino

DDFN said:


> With this comment about black market vaccine cards and your avatar picture I just giggled a bit thinking if anyone starts this service it may be you! Lol


No need. Plenty of services already out there! For myself, I have access to a filled-out vaccination card and it would be ridiculously easy to copy it and substitute my name. But I wouldn't stick my neck out to do it for other folks.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> No need. Plenty of services already out there! For myself, I have access to a filled-out vaccination card and it would be ridiculously easy to copy it and substitute my name. But I wouldn't stick my neck out to do it for other folks.


Damfino is just the relay person lol. Jk. The image of people passing a basket of fresh produce to get the contact number of people doing it. Ok sorry will stop being silly now. 
It's one of those weekends over here.


----------



## luvmyherd

There was a bar busted in a small town near us way back in March I believe. (Have a beer; get a vaccine card.) Unfortunately for him; that led to an illegal weapons bust as well.👀


----------



## DDFN

luvmyherd said:


> There was a bar busted in a small town near us way back in March I believe. (Have a beer; get a vaccine card.) Unfortunately for him; that led to an illegal weapons bust as well.👀


Your not kidding? Oh my. Why have things gotten so crazy. Makes you wonder what all else they were doing from there. 

Never thought people would actually be getting fake cards.


----------



## Damfino

Prohibition didn't work in this country in the 1920's. The War on Drugs has been a dismal failure for decades with more people dying of drugs now than ever were when "War" started. Gun bans have never done a thing to keep guns away from criminals. Music, movies, video games, etc. are pirated all over the place. Why would fake vaccination cards be any different? If people don't want to be vaccinated but the government/business require them to do so, they create a demand that can easily be supplied by the black market. Some sellers will get busted, but buyers and people who print their own but aren't dealers can't really be caught.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> Prohibition didn't work in this country in the 1920's. The War on Drugs has been a dismal failure for decades with more people dying of drugs now than ever were when "War" started. Gun bans have never done a thing to keep guns away from criminals. Music, movies, video games, etc. are pirated all over the place. Why would fake vaccination cards be any different? If people don't want to be vaccinated but the government/business require them to do so, they create a demand that can easily be supplied by the black market. Some sellers will get busted, but buyers and people who print their own but aren't dealers can't really be caught.


I mean it makes sense just didn't realize people had actually started doing that. True about the rest.


----------



## luvmyherd

I know I say this a lot but I am old! In my life I have seen wars on
Poverty
Inflation
Crime
Drugs
Various diseases
Terrorism
Yeah! We no longer have any of those things. (snark intended)
Create a demand and a market soon follows.


----------



## Tanya

Its exactly like when they ban cigarettes and alcohol during lock down level 5 and 4 here. Suddenly we were paying hundreds of rands for a carton of cigarettes and hundreds of rands for alcohol. You were locked up as smugglers and had that stamp if you plead guilty. So 50% of our country are smugglers and have criminal records... 🤦‍♀️


----------



## Goats Rock

As soon as people are told they have to do something or are not permitted to, they will do the opposite. (I am guilty of that!)


----------



## Tanya

And laat night Chevani tested positive..... aaaaaggggghhghh


----------



## Tanya

Decided to watch Contagion again. Just because I am very frustrated


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Im so sorry. Contagion is a good movie.


----------



## Tanya

Yeah but she has no symptoms. I think we are going to become vegetsrian hermits


----------



## luvmyherd

Sorry she tested positive. Hopefully she will remain symptom free.
Traveling across the Country it is interesting to see the variety in CDC compliance (and lack thereof.)
We are visiting family so even though we are fully vaccinated; we are being extra careful.


----------



## DDFN

So sorry she tested positive. We are already having issues with positive cases and exposure around here again. Person a and b both exposed to a positive person same distance and interactions. Person a is not QT but person b is, pending their work positions. . . Each person is told a different thing.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## luvmyherd

Well, we went to great lengths to avoid SD (specifically Sturgis.) I am fine with people who do not vaccinate; I just want them to stay away from me. Many people have a really bad attitude. Like coming up behind you in line and breathing down your neck!


----------



## DDFN

Ok so apparently people are now trying to use ivermectin to treat covid. It's getting about impossible to find injectable now. Remind me the paste dosage incase I have to start using my horse paste instead.

Feel like Darwin would say "hay you out if the gene pool". At least they will be worked now! 

Am I crazy or is this idea just over the top?


----------



## happybleats

DDFN said:


> Remind me the paste dosage incase I have to start using my horse paste instead.


3 times the weight. So if goat is 100 pounds. Treat as if 300 pounds.

I know people using ivomec on their wrist once a month. Niether have contracted covid even though family around them have...soooo??


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> 3 times the weight. So if goat is 100 pounds. Treat as if 300 pounds.
> 
> I know people using ivomec on their wrist once a month. Niether have contracted covid even though family around them have...soooo??


Seriously ? I haven't heard of it. Are they using pour on or injectable? Places still have pour on but I always used injectable orally. 

Thanks for paste dose


----------



## happybleats

I think they use injectable since they run cattle and keep it on hand but not positive.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> I think they use injectable since they run cattle and keep it on hand but not positive.


Interesting. I end up with it on my skin dosing my girls lol guess I am protected


----------



## happybleats

Doesn't hurt any way lol.


----------



## jschies

Doctors are prescribing ivermectin tablets to people with Covid here.


----------



## DDFN

jschies said:


> Doctors are prescribing ivermectin tablets to people with Covid here.


Is there any research on this? Just curious how a wormer helps covid. Guess that explains why I can't hardly find it anymore. It's time to dose the girls with ivermectin this weekend.


----------



## jschies

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf


----------



## jschies

The link that I just posted was for prevention and outpatient treatment. Here is the protocol they are recommending for patients in the hospital.


https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FLCCC-Alliance-MATHplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf


----------



## DDFN

Ok thanks . Now I feel silly for my Darwin gene pool comment, but I had not heard of it being used yet. 

I was getting frustrated that my favorite goat chemical wormer was going to be placed as a prescription only like they recently did with penicillin. Well hope it works for then but hope we still have it available for our farm needs.


----------



## jschies

I am a teacher. We have been in school for 1 1/2 weeks with dividers, Lysol between classes, and lots of hand washing and hand sanitizer--no masks unless you want to wear it.  The very first day a parent emailed me and said that she was sorry to tell me that her son tested positive that night. I was a little worried but my husband has probably had it twice and I have been exposed by other people and I have not come down with it. One other child tested positive in my class--no one else. I think we will be fine. And no... I am not taking ivermectin at this time, but I have a bottle in the cabinet!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

This is from a friend of mine in Florida. Just wanted to share with you


----------



## jschies

I wonder if they are allowing the doctors to use Ivermectin in that part of Florida.


----------



## DDFN

jschies said:


> I am a teacher. We have been in school for 1 1/2 weeks with dividers, Lysol between classes, and lots of hand washing and hand sanitizer--no masks unless you want to wear it. The very first day a parent emailed me and said that she was sorry to tell me that her son tested positive that night. I was a little worried but my husband has probably had it twice and I have been exposed by other people and I have not come down with it. One other child tested positive in my class--no one else. I think we will be fine. And no... I am not taking ivermectin at this time, but I have a bottle in the cabinet!


I am a teacher too! We are not allowed to require masks any more. Even the most of adults are going maskless. I am still masking myself because the likely hood if I get it I would be more then likely asymptomatic since I am type o blood. Two weeks in and there has already been covid issues. It's very stressful and very disheartening. 

We do not have dividers but do have cleaning supplies to clean tables between classes. 

Please everyone stay safe!


----------



## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> This is from a friend of mine in Florida. Just wanted to share with you
> View attachment 211659


Wonder if this is the same area that the 3 teachers and a teaching assistant all died within 24 hours? Had a friend tell me that last week.

Keep up the vitamin d, c, zinc and elderberry folks!


----------



## DDFN

jschies said:


> I wonder if they are allowing the doctors to use Ivermectin in that part of Florida.


Still curious who thought let's try using ivermectin in the first place, not something I would of thought it could of been used for.


----------



## ksalvagno

Moers kiko boars said:


> This is from a friend of mine in Florida. Just wanted to share with you
> View attachment 211659


I wonder what the source of this is. Hard to believe anything. D.C. is not happy that DeSantis is not on board with their version of the C flu.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

ksalvagno said:


> Hard to believe anything.


That should be on a t-shirt or something. 

Seems everything coming from media, government is agenda driven. Anything not approved is censored or cancelled.


----------



## Tanya

Well. If memory serves it was India thaf first started with the ivermectin. But. I must say. Those ppl here using it can only sing its praises. 
Me. I just wash hands etc. But I recently had a friend from here send me a lovely message and I have chosen to follow it. And I am happy. 
The specialist has told me the reason I cannot get rid of this darned thing is because it is as stubborn às I am and that my antibodies are so adamant that they are holding it hostage. But I am starting to recover at last. My little one too. She is sick no more....


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> Well. If memory serves it was India thaf first started with the ivermectin. But. I must say. Those ppl here using it can only sing its praises.
> Me. I just wash hands etc. But I recently had a friend from here send me a lovely message and I have chosen to follow it. And I am happy.
> The specialist has told me the reason I cannot get rid of this darned thing is because it is as stubborn às I am and that my antibodies are so adamant that they are holding it hostage. But I am starting to recover at last. My little one too. She is sick no more....


Do you happen to know your blood type? I had seen that those with type a have a harder time but type o can be more resistant to it making recovery easier. 

We have been seeing so many false negatives here they think they received a bad batch of rapid tests or that they don't pick up the delta like the others. Friend in medical field saw so many rapids neg and the pcr come back positive.

Glad you are starting to feel better. Hang in there


----------



## Goatastic43

@Tanya praying for your recovery!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Wonderful about your little one! Now its your turn! Get well my friend! You have too much to offer this world to not Live in it!


----------



## Tanya

DDFN said:


> Do you happen to know your blood type? I had seen that those with type a have a harder time but type o can be more resistant to it making recovery easier.
> 
> We have been seeing so many false negatives here they think they received a bad batch of rapid tests or that they don't pick up the delta like the others. Friend in medical field saw so many rapids neg and the pcr come back positive.
> 
> Glad you are starting to feel better. Hang in there


I am A+ and my little one O-.... So yeah could just be that.....


----------



## Tanya

Goatastic43 said:


> @Tanya praying for your recovery!


Thank you....


----------



## Tanya

Moers kiko boars said:


> Wonderful about your little one! Now its your turn! Get well my friend! You have too much to offer this world to not Live in it!


I think mayyyybbbbereee just maybe this world is saying... "no more.... no more......."


----------



## FizzyGoats

I’m glad your daughter is feeling better. I hope you are right behind her. 

@DDFN, what an interesting observation on the blood types. 

I had my first COVID related dream last night. I dreamt I was coughing up mucous that had these slimy little white bugs that resembled crawfish in it and everyone was telling me that’s how you know for sure it’s COVID. Seemed perfectly reasonable and downright scientific in dreamland, lol.


----------



## luvmyherd

FizzyGoats said:


> I’m glad your daughter is feeling better. I hope you are right behind her.
> 
> @DDFN, what an interesting observation on the blood types.
> 
> I had my first COVID related dream last night. I dreamt I was coughing up mucous that had these slimy little white bugs that resembled crawfish in it and everyone was telling me that’s how you know for sure it’s COVID. Seemed perfectly reasonable and downright scientific in dreamland, lol.


That is great though disturbing. My Covid dreams always center around me being somewhere (usually a hospital) and either I or everyone else are not wearing masks.


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> I am A+ and my little one O-.... So yeah could just be that.....


That could be it. Do you happen to have vitamin c, d and elderberry available for use? That also helps recover and possibly preventative too


----------



## DDFN

FizzyGoats said:


> I’m glad your daughter is feeling better. I hope you are right behind her.
> 
> @DDFN, what an interesting observation on the blood types.
> 
> I had my first COVID related dream last night. I dreamt I was coughing up mucous that had these slimy little white bugs that resembled crawfish in it and everyone was telling me that’s how you know for sure it’s COVID. Seemed perfectly reasonable and downright scientific in dreamland, lol.


I had read some science articles on it before and interesting all my coworkers still not sick are all type o too. We end up the work horses of the pandemic.


----------



## DDFN

FizzyGoats said:


> I’m glad your daughter is feeling better. I hope you are right behind her.
> 
> @DDFN, what an interesting observation on the blood types.
> 
> I had my first COVID related dream last night. I dreamt I was coughing up mucous that had these slimy little white bugs that resembled crawfish in it and everyone was telling me that’s how you know for sure it’s COVID. Seemed perfectly reasonable and downright scientific in dreamland, lol.


Wish I remember what science journal it was in. I plan to go next week for antibody testing. Hoping I have some to give me a fighting chance this school year. 
Ps I will keep my eyes out for the crawfish


----------



## Tanya

Ok. So I was sent this today.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Thanks for sending my morning smile. Okay, I admit I did laugh out loud.


----------



## Tanya

I am glad I could make you smile


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## happybleats

Well the covid hit our home. Hubs work place has several people down an out. We didn't test personally but sadly before we felt sick my grandson stayed with us. He of course got sick,, then his dad. His dad had to test for work and was positive. So We assume we all have it. My daughter had covid last year and hasn't felt sick this time at all. As a police officer..she is mandated to stay home..which is good..her boys needed her to take care of them. My grandson was sick for 2 days, my 15 year old for 4 days..my 18 year old never got more than a stuffy nose. She hardly ever gets sick. I'm on day 6 I think and hubs has been sick for 10 days, really hit hard the last 4 days for him. So..we should all be feeling better soon I think. So guess we can check that off the chart...


----------



## Moers kiko boars

So glad it was only the covid19. My friends with Delta, 1 vaccinated 1 not, have been in bed for 6 weeks. Just beginning to be able to eat. So glad you are doing ok. Take care.


----------



## Goatastic43

Hope you and your family feel well soon @happybleats! If you don’t mind me asking, are you taking vitamin c, d and zinc?


----------



## happybleats

Thank you,, Yes..all the above..except when I was throwing up 🤢 but I have taking them for about a year daily before this hit. 

Funny note: hubs asked our son to grab a new thermometer....so after checking his temp asked me...where can I put this that will be safe from you using it on the goats 😅 ugh..can't laugh..makes me cough..but all I can say was..no where is safe lol


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> Ok. So I was sent this today.
> View attachment 211932


That just made my day and gave me a good giggle.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Thank you,, Yes..all the above..except when I was throwing up 🤢 but I have taking them for about a year daily before this hit.
> 
> Funny note: hubs asked our son to grab a new thermometer....so after checking his temp asked me...where can I put this that will be safe from you using it on the goats 😅 ugh..can't laugh..makes me cough..but all I can say was..no where is safe lol


So sorry you all got hit with it. Hoping for a speedy recovery! 

Lol yes where to put that thermometer. . . You should of told him it was already a go at one


----------



## toth boer goats

Get well soon.


----------



## goathiker

DH just tested positive. Of course he's in Nome, AK. One of the jobsite inspectors brought it to the work camp. 
Guess he gets to quarantine in a flea bag hotel.


----------



## ksalvagno

Geez. How awful. Will be praying for everyone.


----------



## Tanya

@happybleats oh no... aaaarrrggghhhh. Lots of fresh air and vit c and fluids...


----------



## FizzyGoats

@happybleats I hope you and your crew recovery quickly! And maybe your family should hide the thermometer from you. 

@goathiker That just sucks. Is he feeling okay and being quarantined for good measure? Or is he sick? Either way, being stuck in a crappy hotel far from home is terrible.


----------



## alwaystj9

We're going through like, a 4th wave of the virus at work. This past week one guy whose whole family had it except him got sick and another went out with a second case despite having gotten sick during the first wave.


----------



## Tanya

You can get this thing multiple times. I have had it 5 times. It drives me insane. I am really praying for every one who is sick and recovering.


----------



## AndersonRanch

This was sent to my sister when she got it from a friend who’s husband ended up in the hospital. Friend did the prevention protocol and didn’t end up with it even taking care of her husband. For the ivermectin she just put a little horse wormer on a cracker and ate it. My sister had found online the correct dose but can’t find it again. Anyways just thought I would share and this is straight from the hospital when he was sent home


----------



## toth boer goats

Sending positive thoughts, hope everything stays safe and gets well soon.


----------



## goathiker

After a day of agonizing and pleading we have managed to get my husband, son in law, and Jose' a charter flight to Anchorage where they will be put into an outpatient facility with a real doctor. 
That's a big step up from the little island in the Bering sea they were working on or staying in Nome with a doctor but, no quarantine facilities. 

To make this even more fun, the inspector that gave it to them had been vaccinated. Since he didn't know that he was carrying the virus he has infected in excess of 30 people including his entire family.


----------



## FizzyGoats

AndersonRanch said:


> This was sent to my sister when she got it from a friend who’s husband ended up in the hospital. Friend did the prevention protocol and didn’t end up with it even taking care of her husband. For the ivermectin she just put a little horse wormer on a cracker and ate it. My sister had found online the correct dose but can’t find it again. Anyways just thought I would share and this is straight from the hospital when he was sent home
> View attachment 212017
> View attachment 212018
> View attachment 212019


That is really interesting. Thanks for sharing. 



goathiker said:


> After a day of agonizing and pleading we have managed to get my husband, son in law, and Jose' a charter flight to Anchorage where they will be put into an outpatient facility with a real doctor.
> That's a big step up from the little island in the Bering sea they were working on or staying in Nome with a doctor but, no quarantine facilities.
> 
> To make this even more fun, the inspector that gave it to them had been vaccinated. Since he didn't know that he was carrying the virus he has infected in excess of 30 people including his entire family.


Oh no. What a cluster flub. That’s terrible. 
I’m glad you were able to get them to a place with a real doctor. Hope they’re doing ok.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Yes people dont understand, once vaccinated they carry the disease, and can spread it. They exhale the virus. And vacinnation does Not mean immune. You can still get it.


----------



## ksalvagno

Great news that they can get off the island. I sure hope they get the proper care they need and get well quickly.


----------



## Calistar

I don't want to start a debate, and I'm not looking for the "right" answer or looking to pass judgment- I'm just really curious. Is there anyone here who chose not to get vaccinated and then ended up getting Covid? Did it make you wish you'd gotten vaccinated or would you still rather have taken your chances?

I'm so sorry for all of you who are dealing with the effects of it right now. Sending well-wishes for everyone and their families!


----------



## Kass

I have not gotten covid yet. My sister and her family got sick a while back and she thinks it was covid. They were sick for a couple days but everyone is a-ok now and they stand by their choice to not vaccinate. 

Sent from my SM-A115U using Goat Forum mobile app


----------



## DDFN

So glad they were able to get off the island and to a real medical center. Hoping everyone effected gets better. 

Honestly (please don't think I am a bad person) but I think the reason it is getting worse again is because so many of the vaccinated think it is fine to run around maskless. When what we are truly seeing is those vaccinated are now instead more likely to be asymptomatic or present as a sinus infection. They are not social distancing and not wearing masks because they seem to think they can't spread it. We had a fully vaccinated family member die this week from covid after an extended hospital stay. 

Everyone keeps putting out all these numbers of how many unvaccinated are in the hospital but not showing how many vaccinated are still dying from it. Most unvaccinated people I know still have not had it yet because they are still social distancing and or using masks. 

A local school district is now sueing the governor for not mandating masks and letting parents opt the students out.


----------



## jschies

Both my sons and their wives have had it. One son is vaccinated and they got sick the day after he was vaccinated. He stands by his decision to get the vaccine because he is a paramedic. but he hasn't talked his wife into getting it. The others stand by their decisions not to. My husband and I may have had Covid--we didn't get tested. We're not vaccinated.


----------



## toth boer goats

The part which makes no sense is, people who are vaccinated still get COVID, some, just as bad as those who are not. 
My thinking is, why in the world would I get vaccinated, if I am still at risk getting it.
Plus putting something in my body in which is questionable, which I cannot trust, which is being forced on us. Big red flag IMO. 

I am not bashing those who did get the vaccine, but heed warning to it as I do not trust it.


----------



## DDFN

toth boer goats said:


> The part which makes no sense is, people who are vaccinated still get COVID, some, just as bad as those who are not.
> My thinking is, why in the world would I get vaccinated, if I am still at risk getting it.
> Plus putting something in my body in which is questionable, which I cannot trust, which is being forced on us. Big red flag IMO.
> 
> I am not bashing those who did get the vaccine, but heed warning to it as I do not trust it.


I understand completely. I honestly think they are fudging the numbers with as many seriously sick vaccinated people i have seen yet the numbers do not add up. 

I have also seen many vaccinated people having serious autoimmune responses that have left them either disabled or is suck poor health they can not live a normal life. This is concerning as their complaints appear to never get shared with the data on vaccine responses either.


----------



## toth boer goats

I do agree with you.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Unfortunately Fake News is still alive and well. I agree with you both. Its so sad, that those people are really carriers now, less safe than before.


----------



## happybleats

I have covid. Tested. Got real bad and was taken to the hospital. Pneumonia topped that off. Oxygen dropped dangerously. I did realize how sick until I rather lay there and die. Been in hospital for 2 days. I feel stronger..ready to go home. Strange how everyone else recovered quickly but me. Any well...I still would not vaccinate.


----------



## Tanya

@happybleats. I am glad you recovered


----------



## happybleats

Thank you. Have long road. But better than I was


----------



## ksalvagno

Happy to hear you are improving.


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh Cathy, that must of been scary.
So glad your ok now. Hugs


----------



## FizzyGoats

@happybleats I’m sorry you got so sick. That had to be terrible. So glad you are on the mend. Take care of yourself!


----------



## Goatastic43

Glad you get to go home and are improving! :hugs:


----------



## happybleats

They still won't send me home. Getting frustrated. I'm tired of being pricked and given shots..I just want to go home and recover. And eat real food


----------



## Tanya

happybleats said:


> They still won't send me home. Getting frustrated. I'm tired of being pricked and given shots..I just want to go home and recover. And eat real food


Patience is needed. Vampires are all over you there. I really hope you go home soon.


----------



## ksalvagno

happybleats said:


> They still won't send me home. Getting frustrated. I'm tired of being pricked and given shots..I just want to go home and recover. And eat real food


Don't blame you. I hope you get to go home soon.


----------



## goathiker

Yep, stay where you're at and let them take care of you. If you get up too soon you'll have permanent problems for the rest of your life. 

I see a lot of people who read too much Facebook lol. Might be a good idea to find out how viruses actually work and the difference between the 3 vaccines. 

I doubt anyone who was only sick for a couple days has had covid. It's debilitating and extremely painful. 

The reason we have a problem is because the South African variant is spreading over America. It is 4 times more contagious than the original. The vaccine is still 66% effective against this one. 
The British variant is beginning to spread through Texas, Arizona, etc. This one may be smarter than the vaccine. 
Just like flu, it's going to be different every season and it will never go away.


----------



## Tanya

It is extremely deabilitating. Leaving the hospital roo soon may lead to missing a long term problem... trust me...


----------



## Moers kiko boars

So glad you are feeling better. You can refuse the testing. Thet have to get permission from your Dr. If you tell the Dr. No more. He has to do as you ask. Or realease you.


----------



## goathiker

DH is very ill and will be starting monoclonal antibody therapy today. I was pretty worried after talking to him last night. 
Jose' is also ill but, the son- in-law has managed to avoid it so far.


----------



## gabriella2000

toth boer goats said:


> The part which makes no sense is, people who are vaccinated still get COVID, some, just as bad as those who are not.
> My thinking is, why in the world would I get vaccinated, if I am still at risk getting it.
> Plus putting something in my body in which is questionable, which I cannot trust, which is being forced on us. Big red flag IMO.
> 
> I am not bashing those who did get the vaccine, but heed warning to it as I do not trust it.


 YES. I heard we are goning to see side effect in about 6 months.If you are interested the EPOCH TIMES has news from around the world that is trust worthy.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> They still won't send me home. Getting frustrated. I'm tired of being pricked and given shots..I just want to go home and recover. And eat real food


Hang in there and be thankful to have a bed and let them care for you. You don't want to leave too soon and still have oxygen issues. We are all thinking of you.


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> DH is very ill and will be starting monoclonal antibody therapy today. I was pretty worried after talking to him last night.
> Jose' is also ill but, the son- in-law has managed to avoid it so far.


Hoping he does ok and can get the monoclonal antibody therapy.


----------



## DDFN

gabriella2000 said:


> YES. I heard we are goning to see side effect in about 6 months.If you are interested the EPOCH TIMES has news from around the world that is trust worthy.


I think we already have side effects but they keep hiding it from clear view.


----------



## ksalvagno

goathiker said:


> DH is very ill and will be starting monoclonal antibody therapy today. I was pretty worried after talking to him last night.
> Jose' is also ill but, the son- in-law has managed to avoid it so far.


That is awful. I hope the treatment works quickly for him.


----------



## Tanya

We are praying for you all. This is no joke. Just focus on healing.


----------



## toth boer goats

Get well soon, but don’t rush it. Hugs


----------



## goathiker

DH still very sick tonight. He couldn't stay on the phone long. Still worried. 
The outbreak up there is bad. The day he was brought in there was 4 already, his 2 coworkers and him from Shishmaref, and 28 from the north slope. 
Sure wish I could be up there to get him what he needs.


----------



## goathiker

Thank you Tanya, sometimes it feels like I'm all alone since I take the night shift by choice.


----------



## Tanya

You are never alone


----------



## FizzyGoats

That is tough to be separated when you know he’s sick. I’m really sorry. I hope he recovers quickly. And I hope you can see him again soon.


----------



## ksalvagno

goathiker said:


> DH still very sick tonight. He couldn't stay on the phone long. Still worried.
> The outbreak up there is bad. The day he was brought in there was 4 already, his 2 coworkers and him from Shishmaref, and 28 from the north slope.
> Sure wish I could be up there to get him what he needs.


I will be praying for him.


----------



## GoofyGoat

@happybleats and @goathiker prayers and best wishes for you both and your families.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent for all. 🙏


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@goathiker ..You are doing what DH needs you to do. Stay healthy. You are in his heart & on his mind. It would really upset him if you came. He would worry about you! You are Not alone, GOD never leaves you. Now is when he is asking you to come closer to him. Your human friends are hear, waiting to know how you and DH & all others are. Please stay healthy. Sending you and DH prayers.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@happybleats ...Continue getting better. So glad you are doing well. ( wantimg to leave) Sending you prayers..thinking of you.


----------



## luvmyherd

This is really hitting too close to home. I just found out that my cousin's ex died from Covid. My sister's neighbor just got home from the hospital. (Thank goodness, he has 9 children!)
Wishing all the best for a complete recovery for you and yours.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

My Sons youngest, just brought.Covid home from school. So now all 6 of his family is quarantined. He has 2 teenage sons and 2 younger daughters. His work gave him a laptop, he will work from home. His wife works for the school, she is at home. So far, only 1 child is sick and feeling rough. We will see how it goes. They are all under Drs care, but will remain at home, out in the country. Thank God!


----------



## FizzyGoats

Oh no. I hope they all pull through without getting too sick! Thank goodness they are together and out in the country. I think it would be an extra dose of misery to be stuck in quarantine in a noisy city or a place with people you don’t know/like.


----------



## Goatastic43

Well, my Dad got diagnosed with COVID yesterday. He’s been sick for about 6 days, but just got tested yesterday. Thankfully he isn’t to bad. Has a minor cough and a little bit of a fever. He was also diagnosed with strep throat, but his throat isn’t bothering him. Other than that he just feels crappie and achy. Please be praying for him and our family! I am praying for all of you who are dealing with this too! Get well soon!


----------



## DDFN

Praying for everyone. So sorry so many of you and your families are being impacted right now. I am still at a loss for words to how bad this year has gotten already. 

We are scared at work and they can not force anyone to wear a mask. They apparently can't even force anyone to isolate when exposed or when positive. A friend texted that Knox county schools had a protest today wanting masks. Even if they so we still don't fit into their rules and follow the state's rules. 

Just hoping we all make it through this horrible pandemic.


----------



## Tanya

This new strain is indiscriminant. I am praying for every one.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers for all.


----------



## Goats Rock

My daughter in law's brother in Fla. died of Covid, they said. (He was a fetal alcohol syndrome baby) but physically healthy (was able to work some) and 
about 30 yrs. old. He lived with a grandmother and 2 elderly Aunts. All have it. Plus her sister and 2 kids. They are all in Fla. What a scary time it is for everyone. 
Goathiker, praying for your DH, you and all who are going thru all this terribleness.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## happybleats

Day 6. Starting to feel better. 
Prayers for your hubby Jill. And all who are ill. This has kicked my butt


----------



## ksalvagno

Glad you are doing better.


----------



## goathiker

So happy that you're recovering Cathy. Hopefully the physicians have a better handle on it this time around. 

DH, Don for those helping with prayer has been taken to the Anchorage hospital by ambulance. I have not been able to talk to him yet for more than a minute. He sounds really weak. 
More coming when I know more.


----------



## DDFN

Praying for every one. 

And today work announced our inservice next week is a team building exercise day off site . . . We are already trying to figure out how this will work with not many wearing masks and how do you social distance? I haven't eaten out since the pandemic started let alone eaten lunch near anyone but close household family members or at work I eat alone in my closet. Just don't feel like it's the right time for this inservice.


----------



## goathiker

I think that anyone who has or is actually been close to this virus would change their mind on gathering together. I had to wait 8 months to get the vaccine so that my natural antibodies would be gone and not over react to the intrusion. I did wait longer but I wanted my weight up to at least 98 before chancing it. I've been too thin my whole life and lost 35 lbs during the course of the disease.

DH is very weak, they are going to admit him. I will have to search for him in the morning through the switchboard.
He didn't get very good care in the covid shelter unfortunately. Every high calorie meal he was given contained either peanuts or chocolate, both of which he's allergic to. I'm not sure that he's eaten much for days.
He did manage some cottage cheese today and he will be cared for better in the hospital.
Keep praying my friends,


----------



## FizzyGoats

Oh no. I hope he is getting proper care now. That is terrible. And to have such limited communication must be driving you insane while you wait and worry. I really hope he recovers quickly and fully.


----------



## toth boer goats

🙏


----------



## happybleats

Continued prayers Jill. My daughter is sick again..but its been December since the last time. As a police officer she's exposed all the time but has a strong immunity. She said this time around she feels like dog water lol...what ever that feels like.
Her new husband and 7 year old child recovered well and her visiting MIL is recovering. Maureena is a Good care taker. 

Love and blessing everyone!! Stay healthy


----------



## FizzyGoats

I just found out my brother and his wife have it. He was sick for almost two weeks but was too stubborn to take care of himself. He was still out taking care of his animals. I was around them a few times before and while they were sick but I am fine so far. My brother is actually the third person I’ve been around who had it that I didn’t realize had it at the time. When his wife started getting sick, she insisted they get tested, and yep, they have it. He’s recovering pretty well now. He was past the worst of it by the time she got sick. His wife is feeling like crud but considering how bad others get, she’s doing well. 

I hope all of you who have it and all your loved ones who have it are recovering.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Sending prayers!


----------



## goathiker

Don says to thank you all for the prayers.
He is on oxygen and being treated for covid pneumonia and viral pneumonia. He did sound better today. 
They are working hard trying to keep him off of a ventilator, for more reasons than 1. The hospital is full to capacity. There are no ICU beds or rooms available. He and 30 other covid patients are in the emergency room. They are treating people in their cars in the parking lot for other emergency needs.
This Delta variant is 5 times more contagious than the original covid and 60% of their patients are teenagers and young adults
Texas has yet another variant starting the one from England. This one may be smarter than our approved vaccine.


----------



## ksalvagno

Very happy to hear he is doing better. Continued prayers for his full recovery.


----------



## luvmyherd

May Don continue to improve. I am so sorry he is so far away.


----------



## happybleats

Good to hear Don is feeling some better
Honestly I'm glad I'm in small town equipped for this. FIMA Sent in several covid experts. I'm grateful to stay close to home.


----------



## toth boer goats

So good to hear he is improving, sending prayers to all who need it.


----------



## DDFN

Glad he is doing better and getting the treatment he needs. Still praying for you all!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Please be prepared for it to take awhile before he feels himself again. My friends in Florida had the Delta covid, 6 weeks in bed. She went to ICU..stayed 24hrs and left. They were taking unnecessary tests, she got sick of it and left. Shes medical also. After 6 weeks. & 12lb weight loss, she is slowly returning to health. Their is Not a vaccine for Delta. Their is only 1 vaccine for the first covid 19 surge. At present their are 15 varients the vaccine is useless against. 
Im glad DH is improveing. Im thankful you can speak with him. Sending prayers for you & all in the hospitsl where he is.


----------



## Tanya

This is my uncle. 4 months after covid delta got him. 7 foot tall and used to weigh a hefty 180 kilograms. He now weighs a mere 75 kilograms and has 32% oxygen capacity in both lungs with a heart desease caused by covid. This was taken 3 days ago. Today, he could not get out of bed. To any one and every one who has it I pray every day 4 times a day that you recover. This is where I was at 6 weeks ago. Its hard. But with love and support we can gwt past it....


----------



## FizzyGoats

Calistar said:


> I don't want to start a debate, and I'm not looking for the "right" answer or looking to pass judgment- I'm just really curious. Is there anyone here who chose not to get vaccinated and then ended up getting Covid? Did it make you wish you'd gotten vaccinated or would you still rather have taken your chances?
> 
> I'm so sorry for all of you who are dealing with the effects of it right now. Sending well-wishes for everyone and their families!


@Calistar I was thinking of you today when I talked to my brother and asked him and his wife this question. Even though they have it, they are still glad they didn’t get vaccinated and are actually kind of relieved they got it naturally and let their bodies build their immunity and resistance. His wife had one really bad day and is already on the mend (not fully recovered but still working full time from home). He was sick for weeks and lost 10 lbs (and he was already fit and trim). She went to the doctor and received supportive care right away (the first day she felt off) and he didn’t. They are pretty sure that their kids (15, 13) gave it to them. The kids both had what the parents thought were bad allergies and some chest congestion for a day or two. In hindsight, they now think the kids had COVID but don’t know for sure. 

Anyway, just thought I’d add what they said to the pot. Neither had to be hospitalized and they are both in otherwise very good health. 

It seems to hit people with varying severity. My mom got vaccinated. She is older and also under the physical strain of recovering from a broken knee cap and concussion. And of course, she is glad she has the vaccine. 

I think my brother and his family remaining unvaccinated was a good choice for them. I think my mom choosing to get vaccinated was a good choice for her. It’s all a risk/benefit analysis and I wish I had the key to it.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Tanya said:


> View attachment 212364
> 
> This is my uncle. 4 months after covid delta got him. 7 foot tall and used to weigh a hefty 180 kilograms. He now weighs a mere 75 kilograms and has 32% oxygen capacity in both lungs with a heart desease caused by covid. This was taken 3 days ago. Today, he could not get out of bed. To any one and every one who has it I pray every day 4 times a day that you recover. This is where I was at 6 weeks ago. Its hard. But with love and support we can gwt past it....


Oh my gosh. That is so sad. I pray for him, for you, and everyone out there dealing with this.


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> View attachment 212364
> 
> This is my uncle. 4 months after covid delta got him. 7 foot tall and used to weigh a hefty 180 kilograms. He now weighs a mere 75 kilograms and has 32% oxygen capacity in both lungs with a heart desease caused by covid. This was taken 3 days ago. Today, he could not get out of bed. To any one and every one who has it I pray every day 4 times a day that you recover. This is where I was at 6 weeks ago. Its hard. But with love and support we can gwt past it....


Praying for him too and your family. 

Hang in there everyone!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

I just received this. Thought I would share the info with you.


----------



## jschies

That makes sense. Where did that come from?


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Ah, but the good news is that we you are all safe now. FDA has approved the Pfizer Covid vax.

*“The FDA’s approval of this vaccine is a milestone as we continue to battle the COVID-19 pandemic. While this and other vaccines have met the FDA’s rigorous, scientific standards for emergency use authorization, as the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine, the public can be very confident that this vaccine meets the high standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality the FDA requires of an approved product,” said Acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock, M.D. “While millions of people have already safely received COVID-19 vaccines, we recognize that for some, the FDA approval of a vaccine may now instill additional confidence to get vaccinated. Today’s milestone puts us one step closer to altering the course of this pandemic in the U.S.” *


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Dont cha just love the "fake news"? 😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣

@jschies ..NCB.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## Moers kiko boars

@goathiker ..how are you today? How is DH?


----------



## happybleats

Oh Tanya. Prayers for your bil. All I can say is push!!! If we don't push to recover we will die. Maybe not death..but the life we know. I'm day 8 in hospital. Feeling better. Hope to go home soon...but im not unreasonable to think recovery will be long. I will push through. I have kids and dreams still to live and that is my focus.


----------



## Tanya

Every one of us need prayers now. So many of us have some one that has been touched by this aweful thing. To those in medical care. Stay positive. For those of us with family far away in hospital care we keep praying. Please get better soon.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Oh Tanya. Prayers for your bil. All I can say is push!!! If we don't push to recover we will die. Maybe not death..but the life we know. I'm day 8 in hospital. Feeling better. Hope to go home soon...but im not unreasonable to think recovery will be long. I will push through. I have kids and dreams still to live and that is my focus.


Glad you are starting to feel better. They will let you go when the timing is right. Praying for you still and hang in there.


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> Every one of us need prayers now. So many of us have some one that has been touched by this aweful thing. To those in medical care. Stay positive. For those of us with family far away in hospital care we keep praying. Please get better soon.


Praying for you all! This had been hard times and I fear it is still only the beginning.


----------



## goathiker

Moers kiko boars said:


> @goathiker ..how are you today? How is DH?


I am fine, just a mild lingering cough. DH isn't communicating much, l know from experience that he's a horrible patient and wallows in his misery. 


DDFN said:


> Praying for you all! This had been hard times and I fear it is still only the beginning.


I talked to my sister yesterday who works at a fairly large hospital. The next round is already started from the states near Mexico. It is completely immune to the vaccine we have. It's getting smarter really quickly.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Keeping you in my prayers. Thinking of you and DH alot. Keep me posted.please!


----------



## happybleats

goathiker said:


> DH isn't communicating much, l know from experience that he's a horrible patient and wallows in his misery.


It's hard communicating when you feel so bad. My family's panicked and called the hospital if they didn't hear from me..actually I was so miserable I was thinking only of sleeping through it. So I started picking one person who told everyone else. Thank fully my dr is personal friend so she stepped in.


----------



## FizzyGoats

How are you feeling now @happybleats?


----------



## happybleats

I'm feeling so much stronger. Can't decide if it's been 8 or 9 days in here but they are working hard to get me home thank you for asking


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> I am fine, just a mild lingering cough. DH isn't communicating much, l know from experience that he's a horrible patient and wallows in his misery.
> 
> I talked to my sister yesterday who works at a fairly large hospital. The next round is already started from the states near Mexico. It is completely immune to the vaccine we have. It's getting smarter really quickly.


It's just so scary to think about this with so many places not having any covid protocols on place any more.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> I'm feeling so much stronger. Can't decide if it's been 8 or 9 days in here but they are working hard to get me home thank you for asking


Glad you are feeling stronger!


----------



## goathiker

DDFN said:


> It's just so scary to think about this with so many places not having any covid protocols on place any more.


These guys might be luckier than the rest of us. I'm guessing that maybe they have an immune system stronger than a newborn with AIDS. 'Cause, I'm pretty sure that's where the rest of us are at right now.


----------



## toth boer goats

So glad you are feeling better.


----------



## Goatastic43

Glad you doing better @happybleats! How you can get out of the hospital soon!


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> These guys might be luckier than the rest of us. I'm guessing that maybe they have an immune system stronger than a newborn with AIDS. 'Cause, I'm pretty sure that's where the rest of us are at right now.


I hope they have great immune systems after dealing with it once I hope they don't have to go through it again.

Just talked to a co-worker and they had a family member die this morning from covid and two other family members now with it. They are upset they can not be with them to help out. It's sad and bad.


----------



## happybleats

Looks like maybe Wednesday....hopeful but not positive. 
Believe it or not..im obedient 😅 I do what they say. Mostly. But 9 days seems like forever


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Looks like maybe Wednesday....hopeful but not positive.
> Believe it or not..im obedient 😅 I do what they say. Mostly. But 9 days seems like forever


Lol mostly obedient! We completely understand. Hang in there and try to behave until released on covid bail.


----------



## Calistar

FizzyGoats said:


> @Calistar I was thinking of you today when I talked to my brother and asked him and his wife this question. Even though they have it, they are still glad they didn’t get vaccinated and are actually kind of relieved they got it naturally and let their bodies build their immunity and resistance. His wife had one really bad day and is already on the mend (not fully recovered but still working full time from home). He was sick for weeks and lost 10 lbs (and he was already fit and trim). She went to the doctor and received supportive care right away (the first day she felt off) and he didn’t. They are pretty sure that their kids (15, 13) gave it to them. The kids both had what the parents thought were bad allergies and some chest congestion for a day or two. In hindsight, they now think the kids had COVID but don’t know for sure.
> 
> Anyway, just thought I’d add what they said to the pot. Neither had to be hospitalized and they are both in otherwise very good health.
> 
> It seems to hit people with varying severity. My mom got vaccinated. She is older and also under the physical strain of recovering from a broken knee cap and concussion. And of course, she is glad she has the vaccine.
> 
> I think my brother and his family remaining unvaccinated was a good choice for them. I think my mom choosing to get vaccinated was a good choice for her. It’s all a risk/benefit analysis and I wish I had the key to it.


Thanks for the input, Fizzy! (And everyone else who has weighed in.) Obviously everyone is so all over the board on the matter, but it's really interesting to hear the vaccine opinions of the people who have actually had COVID. My friend's fiancee's dad died from it, but he had preexisting conditions that made him vulnerable. He and his family were against the vaccine, but after his death, most of his family got vaccinated. But not all of them. It's just really interesting to see how and if people's opinions change. I'm all for doing whatever makes YOU feel safe, whether that means getting the vaccine or not.

Im so sorry to all of you who have been affected and I hope for full recoveries for you and your loved ones!


----------



## happybleats

6 new covid patients admitted last few days. Said this Delta version making its way through. I sure hope I can go home tomorrow. 
I tell you. This covid team needs our prayers. Their work is heavy and they do it (at least here) with just care and grace.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Good reminder. The care takers are often under appreciated. 

I hope you get to go home soon!

@goathiker, I hope DH is in contact with you and doing better. And I hope you are feeling better too.


----------



## GoofyGoat

@happybleats and @goathiker prayers and positive thoughts headed your way!


----------



## toth boer goats

🙏


----------



## happybleats

Well another day here and I'm learning to be ok with it. Yah..its hard..it sticks..another IV..but the gal in the bed next to me may not go home. The man they incubated down the hall may not go home. I will go home. This stay here has opened my eyes to the real struggle many don't see..from the sick..to those caring for us. The struggle is real and the need for prayer is so real.


----------



## Damfino

I have been so busy lately that I haven't spent much time at TGS. I'm calling this my "summer of the horse." Goat things have kind of taken a back burner recently, but I've been trying to check in and at least keep up with what's going on even if I don't have time to respond. I'm sorry to hear about those who are sick. I hope you and your loved ones all recover fully. 

Sounds like this Delta variant is pretty nasty compared to what hit us last year. The vaccine's performance is disappointing. It seems to help but hasn't turned out to be the big miracle it was proclaimed to be. Even highly vaccinated Israel is having a big surge of cases and deaths lately, and now they're promoting booster shots every 6 months which is not a feasible long term plan.

So far we're staying fairly insulated here. One older lady in my saddle club came down with Delta in early August and was intubated in the hospital last I heard, which was about a week and a half ago. Her husband died from Covid two weeks before that. I don't really know them but I'd been team sorting with her and her daughter all summer. The daughter (who is about my age) is the one who told me about it. I'll probably get an update this Friday when we sort again. I'm concerned that another acquaintance in my saddle club may end up in a bad way. I saw her at a murder mystery ride about a week ago and she was coughing and sounded short of breath. She said it was a "summer cold" but since Covid is the most prevalent virus going around right now that's probably what she had. She's a heavy woman and getting older so she's definitely higher risk. 

A friend of mine will probably lose her job over the vaccine. She's a radiographer and the hospital is requiring vaccination. Several other workers in that hospital are trying to file a lawsuit but I doubt it will go anywhere. There's too much court precedent for hospitals being allowed to require vaccination. On the plus side, she can probably get a job almost anywhere else right now. Every business everywhere has a large "HELP WANTED" sign in the window. Other jobs may not pay as well, but I'm sure she will be able to find something she enjoys and that doesn't care about their employees' vaccination status. 

We also lost another relative two weeks ago. My husband's favorite uncle (heck, everyone's favorite uncle!) passed away after battling several different health problems for a long time. We'll sure be missing him. I'm glad he waited until this year so we could have a proper funeral. He was a great guy. 

Feel better soon everyone!


----------



## luvmyherd

So nice to hear your logical posting🦉 damfino
I am in Arkansas and my grand niece is getting married Friday. I admit to being a little concerned; being fully vaccinated notwithstanding. I know there will be anti-vaxxers/maskers there. And this is a super hot spot right now.
We plan to stay distanced as much as possible and will carry masks in case we feel really uncomfortable. I know my niece wants to be safe but does not want to exclude family.
(I know when they planned this and _set the date_ they believed we would be past this point.)


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@happybleats ..sending you prayers. Yes unfortunately, it is a very real situation. The public has been mislead, and the truth has not been allowed or processed. Take care, and keep positive. Ask your Dr when you can go home. Tell them when you feel ready to go.home. They get very busy, and need to be reminded of the few that are wanting to go home. Your in my thoughts & prayers.


----------



## toth boer goats

🙏


----------



## happybleats

Just heard my 15 year old son did all the goats hooves today. So nice to know everything is being handled ...


----------



## FizzyGoats

What a good kid. I’m glad your family is helping so you can take care of yourself and recover.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Well another day here and I'm learning to be ok with it. Yah..its hard..it sticks..another IV..but the gal in the bed next to me may not go home. The man they incubated down the hall may not go home. I will go home. This stay here has opened my eyes to the real struggle many don't see..from the sick..to those caring for us. The struggle is real and the need for prayer is so real.


Glad you will be one of the "lucky" ones that gets to make it home. My cousins dad wasn't one. Was told today a teacher and a bus driver in the county that our school is located ( we are unusual and not part of the county district) died today but they are under playing the numbers of school related deaths. We had a staff member last year die of a Heart attack but some people think possibly covid related. Praying for everyone at your hospital too. Hang in there.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> I have been so busy lately that I haven't spent much time at TGS. I'm calling this my "summer of the horse." Goat things have kind of taken a back burner recently, but I've been trying to check in and at least keep up with what's going on even if I don't have time to respond. I'm sorry to hear about those who are sick. I hope you and your loved ones all recover fully.
> 
> Sounds like this Delta variant is pretty nasty compared to what hit us last year. The vaccine's performance is disappointing. It seems to help but hasn't turned out to be the big miracle it was proclaimed to be. Even highly vaccinated Israel is having a big surge of cases and deaths lately, and now they're promoting booster shots every 6 months which is not a feasible long term plan.
> 
> So far we're staying fairly insulated here. One older lady in my saddle club came down with Delta in early August and was intubated in the hospital last I heard, which was about a week and a half ago. Her husband died from Covid two weeks before that. I don't really know them but I'd been team sorting with her and her daughter all summer. The daughter (who is about my age) is the one who told me about it. I'll probably get an update this Friday when we sort again. I'm concerned that another acquaintance in my saddle club may end up in a bad way. I saw her at a murder mystery ride about a week ago and she was coughing and sounded short of breath. She said it was a "summer cold" but since Covid is the most prevalent virus going around right now that's probably what she had. She's a heavy woman and getting older so she's definitely higher risk.
> 
> A friend of mine will probably lose her job over the vaccine. She's a radiographer and the hospital is requiring vaccination. Several other workers in that hospital are trying to file a lawsuit but I doubt it will go anywhere. There's too much court precedent for hospitals being allowed to require vaccination. On the plus side, she can probably get a job almost anywhere else right now. Every business everywhere has a large "HELP WANTED" sign in the window. Other jobs may not pay as well, but I'm sure she will be able to find something she enjoys and that doesn't care about their employees' vaccination status.
> 
> We also lost another relative two weeks ago. My husband's favorite uncle (heck, everyone's favorite uncle!) passed away after battling several different health problems for a long time. We'll sure be missing him. I'm glad he waited until this year so we could have a proper funeral. He was a great guy.
> 
> Feel better soon everyone!


Every where is hiring. Took the cat by the local vet clinic today to have some tests ran and when I mentioned I had vet teched when I was younger they offered me a job. It was insane. I jokingly told them if the teaching industry shuts down and goes automated then I may take them up in it . I hate to hear about your riding club member. Hoping and praying they can make it through it as well.


----------



## goathiker

DH coded night before last. He pinched off his oxygen tube in his sleep. They got him back and he seems better today, but jeese I can't be there to really see what's happening. 
This just sucks in so many ways.


----------



## Tanya

Oh no... i am glad he is ok


----------



## goathiker

He did seem to be okay tonight. He did accuse me of being a gold digger, not that he's ever had any money. I apparently also don't care about him, even though I've been talking to his nurses every day. I know that he's very ill but it still hurts.


----------



## luvmyherd

I am so sorry for all of your pain. It is obvious that you care very much. Very sick people say all kinds of things. We are here for you.


----------



## goathiker

Lol, we've been married 37 years. I've seen, done, gotten through the words many times before. 

Getting the bedroom ready to rearrange. I guess he will be on oxygen for quite awhile. 
I need to make room for that and still keep the dog crate up.


----------



## Tanya

Oh this is the bad stage @goathiker . The barage of medication, discomfort and being confined puts them in a place that they dont even remember. He does love you. And he knows he has an Angel in you. Prayers and blessings.


----------



## ksalvagno

Oh no. I'm glad he is ok. So sorry he isn't being nice with his words. It isn't fair to you. Bad enough you can't be right there and have to rely on the nurses. Continuing to pray for you guys.


----------



## happybleats

How scary Jill. Just keep in mind the meds they keep us on is alot for our body to process. Especially those who never take meds. I felt alone and isolated and scared..im Sure Don does too. 
They took me off the oxygen vapor thing today and put regular oxygen on. Weening me to a home amount which I will have to have a while. This truly does stink but it too will pass. 
Prayers for Don and you Jill. Strength and God speed. 
My room mate is not fairing well but her husband from what I heard is doing some better. 
What a mess this all is.


----------



## Tanya




----------



## Moers kiko boars

@goathiker ..His remarks are from not feeling good. Part of loving someone is saying bad things to them. 
You are the only person that he knows when he is in pain, and missing you terribly, he can say that to. Please know he loves you, wants you to be safe. We are here for you to vent to. He only has you
Sending you.prayers ,and Don also.


----------



## happybleats

Got my walking papers!! I'm going home..finally.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

YAY! 🥂🍻🍾🍹👏👏👏👏👏👏


----------



## ksalvagno

happybleats said:


> Got my walking papers!! I'm going home..finally.


Great news! Praying for continued recovery.


----------



## Tanya

Oh please take care of your liungs. And no heavy lifting for you... so happy you get out of there


----------



## NigerianNewbie

Great news that you are being discharged from the hospital. Welcome Home! ✨💥


----------



## happybleats

I'm home!!! Oh my it feels so good. Thank you all for well wishes and prayers.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Ok..We can do the Happy @happybleats is Home Dance!


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> I'm home!!! Oh my it feels so good. Thank you all for well wishes and prayers.


So glad you got home! Still rest up and hoping for full recovery!


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> Lol, we've been married 37 years. I've seen, done, gotten through the words many times before.
> 
> Getting the bedroom ready to rearrange. I guess he will be on oxygen for quite awhile.
> I need to make room for that and still keep the dog crate up.


Sorry he has been rude but between him feeling bad and we all know how men are when sick. Let it roll off like water and be happy he is still around to complain. 

Praying for kind words and healing. 
Hang in there .


----------



## goathiker

Waiting for DH's CT scan tonight 
His lungs are having trouble learning to breathe again. They are going to look for blood clotting. 

He's doing much better mentally. The nurses have been counseling when they can. 

I must say, if he had to end up in the middle of a huge outbreak, he landed in a very good hospital.


----------



## Damfino

Glad you're home Happybleats! 

I hope Don improves very soon, Goathiker

There was a lot of good news at team sorting tonight. The lady's mom who was in the hospital on a ventilator for two weeks suddenly improved dramatically, got off the ventilator, and today she left the hospital and is in a rehab center. She lost a ton of weight but is feeling pretty good considering what she went through. 

The heavyset lady who was coughing and short of breath two weeks ago was at team sorting tonight and is still coughing some and her voice is rough, but she is no longer short of breath and she looks a whole lot better. When I saw her two weeks ago she looked pretty drained just from normal activity. Her color was "off" and she was panting a lot despite not doing much at the murder mystery ride. Tonight she was racing around on her horse with her normal high energy and good color.


----------



## FizzyGoats

It sounds like good news all around! 

@happybleats I’m so glad you are home! Take it easy and don’t do too much right away because I know you’ll be tempted. 

@goathiker How are you feeling now? And I’m glad Don is in a good hospital. Thank goodness for small favors. I hope all goes well with the scan. 

@Damfino, that’s great news about the mom and other lady. There are so many times when it is not a good ending to all this, so it is great to hear about the good ones. 

You’d never know my brother and his wife (and their kids) were sick. I can’t believe how quickly they bounced back. I’m definitely grateful they are all doing well. I was worried about my brother because he just refused to ask for help with his cattle, horses, and land. He’s a control freak when it comes to those and I thought he’d work himself to death, but thankfully he feels 100% better now. And his wife never got super sick and took care of herself better, so she recovered quicker than he did.


----------



## GoofyGoat

@happybleats Thank god you’re well enough to be home! I’m sure it’s quite a relief!
@goathiker oh my I’m so sorry that had to be terrifying, so glad he’s doing better. Coming in touch with ones own mortality is very hard on someone mentally. Don’t take his words to heart. He’s scared and being unable to see you weighs heavily on his mind. Hang in there! Prayers for you both!


----------



## happybleats

Thank you all. Its been difficult being am incharge get her done person now reduced to needing help to walk 🙄 I know this weakness is due to laying in a hospital bed way too long and will pass. Breathing is of course a challenge. Keeping oxygen level up. I have a home unit and instructions to strengthen my lungs...so we will be fine. Road looks fun. But there is a road!!


----------



## toth boer goats

Glad you are home. YAY 😁 

Prayers for all who need it.


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Thank you all. Its been difficult being am incharge get her done person now reduced to needing help to walk 🙄 I know this weakness is due to laying in a hospital bed way too long and will pass. Breathing is of course a challenge. Keeping oxygen level up. I have a home unit and instructions to strengthen my lungs...so we will be fine. Road looks fun. But there is a road!!


Just don't try to over do it. Watch your oxygen and do your best to hang in there. 

It's getting crazy around here. Children are starting to die from different schools across the state and I am amazed at how many are being kept hush hush. Not sure how it's not public news. So far 23 school children I have been either told about or seen articles on but not readily seen unless searching for them. A friends family member goes to one school were two died and one is on a ventilator. 

Please everyone be safe and hang in there.


----------



## happybleats

This is a sad day we live in for sure


----------



## luvmyherd

All I have asked for from the beginning is to be told the truth. What a concept huh?


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

And some people wonder why there are so many people who don't believe everything they hear from media or government.


----------



## AndersonRanch

Tested positive yesterday. The night before I had body aches and chills and a congested head so took the test. Then took a nap, sweated about 20 pounds of fluid and felt better. Last night same thing, the chills then super hot and woke up feeling fine except for a congested head and runny nose and I think a low grade fever (can’t find a thermometer that hasn’t been in a goat or dogs butt lol) 
Tested the kids and they are negative and totally healthy. Tested my husband and also negative but can’t smell anything. So they get to sell their fair animals while I sit at home (cry).


----------



## ksalvagno

So sorry you have it and will miss out. Hope you get better quickly.


----------



## FizzyGoats

I hope you get well very soon. Take care of yourself. I’m glad your kids don’t have it. Hopefully they stay healthy.


----------



## DDFN

AndersonRanch said:


> Tested positive yesterday. The night before I had body aches and chills and a congested head so took the test. Then took a nap, sweated about 20 pounds of fluid and felt better. Last night same thing, the chills then super hot and woke up feeling fine except for a congested head and runny nose and I think a low grade fever (can’t find a thermometer that hasn’t been in a goat or dogs butt lol)
> Tested the kids and they are negative and totally healthy. Tested my husband and also negative but can’t smell anything. So they get to sell their fair animals while I sit at home (cry).


So sorry. Glad the kids are negative and healthy. Hang in there and rest up.


----------



## MellonFriend

@happybleats, I'm so glad you are better! TGS isn't the same without you! 🤗

@AndersonRanch, that sure is a bummer, but at least the rest of your family is negative. I hope you feel better soon!


----------



## AndersonRanch

I’m actually not near as bad as other people that have or have had it.
Today really just felt like a bad cold. I’m feeling a little worse right now but took my aspirin and going to just go to bed. But totally baffled how I have it and no one else, I have even been super cautious this last month to not screw anything up from the kids being able to show and sell this year.


----------



## Tanya

AndersonRanch said:


> I’m actually not near as bad as other people that have or have had it.
> Today really just felt like a bad cold. I’m feeling a little worse right now but took my aspirin and going to just go to bed. But totally baffled how I have it and no one else, I have even been super cautious this last month to not screw anything up from the kids being able to show and sell this year.


I am sorry yiu are ill. Aspirine helps for body ache. To avoid the cough catching you get something to dry up those sinuses. This thing goes from sinus straight to lung. Hope you feel better soon. Oh and lots of sleep and honey tea.


----------



## goathiker

Yes, be proactive to keep it from traveling to your lungs. Tussin extra strength worked well for me when I had it.


----------



## alwaystj9

Robitussin DM, tylenol pm, books on tape...I have a steamer that I used, too.
Wishing all of you well, virtual, non-contagious hugs from Louisiana!


----------



## happybleats

Boy. My lungs hurt. But I'm getting stronger. My whole house hold was sick. Hubs was pretty bad but slept alot. My kids recovered quickly. I was recovering well then crashed. So weird how this virus works. My dr said you take a man made virus and expect it to act normal. Not happening..she said it's all a race to figure the next stage to help patients get back on their feet quickly. She said it's ever changing. 
I found out that my main nurse who is from Haiti, lost her brother right before coming to our hospital in an earthquake in Haiti. And she never showed her pain. Staff just found out. I'm so sad for her. She was my guardian angel. These people are brought in by FIMA I think to come into heavy covid areas and take that wing. They are amazing. I have heard them pray over patients, motivate them to fight..all along giving the care to keep us going. They deserve our gratitude for sure and need our prayers!!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Hey there @AndersonRanch ..so glad you are on here. Ive been worried about you. Staying down to recover is hard for you. Im glad you are taking meds. 
@goathiker ..Glad to hear DH is better. I know this is hard on you. Pleas take care, so DH can come home soon.
@happybleats .So Thankful you are home. Take it easy. The more you do as the Dr says....the sooner you will be back and all over those goats.! 

Im sick & tired of the Lies and Fake News. Please each of you take care and dont take chances. Stay safe & healthy. Praying for all of you & your families!


----------



## AndersonRanch

goathiker said:


> Yes, be proactive to keep it from traveling to your lungs. Tussin extra strength worked well for me when I had it.


Ok I’ll pick some up today. I’ve just been taking allergy pills and DayQuil which just kinda helps with the sore throat, and isn’t even that bad. My sister said to sleep on my stomach but as much as I tried last night I just couldn’t. My son is coughing today so we stayed home from the awards. My husband is getting Gypsy and our tack and coming home. I think what is bothering me the most is the aches in my knees back and finger joints. But today I plan on sleeping the day away once I get everything watered. I found every bucket I own yesterday and filled up for the chickens just in case I go down hill.


----------



## Tanya

Prayers for each and every one of you. The aches and pains are all very real. The sore chest is real. The sinuses are real. There is no antibiotic that can clear this one up.


----------



## Goats Rock

Prayers for you all and I hope you all recover quickly and goathiker, special prayers for you and your hubby.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers for all.


----------



## DDFN

AndersonRanch said:


> Ok I’ll pick some up today. I’ve just been taking allergy pills and DayQuil which just kinda helps with the sore throat, and isn’t even that bad. My sister said to sleep on my stomach but as much as I tried last night I just couldn’t. My son is coughing today so we stayed home from the awards. My husband is getting Gypsy and our tack and coming home. I think what is bothering me the most is the aches in my knees back and finger joints. But today I plan on sleeping the day away once I get everything watered. I found every bucket I own yesterday and filled up for the chickens just in case I go down hill.


Just don't sleep on your back. Sleep on your side and put something behind your back to keep from rolling over during your sleep. If you do sleep in stomach wake up and move about every 3 to 4 hours. One medical friend told me tongues can swell a bit which is why they rotate those in the hospital often.

Hoping fast recovery for all!


----------



## Sfgwife

AndersonRanch said:


> I’m actually not near as bad as other people that have or have had it.
> Today really just felt like a bad cold. I’m feeling a little worse right now but took my aspirin and going to just go to bed. But totally baffled how I have it and no one else, I have even been super cautious this last month to not screw anything up from the kids being able to show and sell this year.



Our oldest son never got it and he was in the house and bed and houmagandy with dil. Dil and baby got it. Paul and I did too.

I will say. Day 5-8 were the worst for Paul and I. Then just the exhaustion for a weekish after all symptoms were gone sucked.


----------



## AndersonRanch

I know and I have been a huge back sleeper the last few months with my back giving me issues. But the good thing is I’m so tired when I sleep I crash on my sore eventually and don’t move. So far I’m able to stay fairly active during the day. I get everything done and when I start feeling really bad or achy I just go to bed for a hour or so. It’s mostly the achy that is bothering me.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## luvmyherd

I just want to say that I feel for everyone here who is being affected by this relentless virus and hope for full recoveries for you and your loved ones.
My niece's wedding observed no protocols at all with lots of hugging and dancing.
We are fully vaccinated but still kept our distance and stayed either outside or near the doors. We will be waiting to hear if anyone who was there ends up sick.


----------



## Goats Rock

We went to an outdoor wedding-a real farm wedding! Complete with a tractor, in the 2nd cut hayfield! Big tent, 250 people. We sat on the Southern end with 
a really brisk (20 mph) wind from the South. DH has had the shot. But, I don't do crowds in a good year, so, we went outside the tent to get the food, 
stayed for a short time, congratulated the bride and groom(his dad has helped us with our farm machinery, we owe him so much) and left. 

Now I am going to worry for 2 weeks about the stupid covid. (we never got closer than 10 feet from anyone,
kept wind to our backs, etc!, can you say "paranoid")?


----------



## happybleats

Good for you going!!.what better way to celebrate in open air.. much safer really!!
even after getting covid and it kicking my butt..I will not stop living life. I will not stop Enjoying family and social events. I will however, continue to respect others rights for safety. Covid has stollen so much from us already. Love ones, our sense of safe...I won't let it steal my happy times. I won't live in fear, rather live ready to fight when needed. Living life is the best medicine. Of course we need to do our part in slowing the spread and such. But don't stop living!

Ps. I sure don't mean to sound condescending. The past 3 years have been one health battle after another. Life has thrown me under the bus it seems but I keep coming up swinging. I don't plan to stop now!!


----------



## luvmyherd

[QUOTE="Goats Rock, post: 2552245, member: 6

Now I am going to worry for 2 weeks about the stupid covid. (we never got closer than 10 feet from anyone,
kept wind to our backs, etc!, can you say "paranoid")?
[/QUOTE]

I do not think it is paranoid at all to be concerned. I am not very worried about us but I worry about the other people if it turns out they were exposed. But on the other hand; they made their choices and we made ours.
We waited until the line was gone before we went up for food. The caterers were professionals so here's hoping they were cautious. The venue was a huge barn open at each end so good air flow.


----------



## DDFN

Goats Rock said:


> We went to an outdoor wedding-a real farm wedding! Complete with a tractor, in the 2nd cut hayfield! Big tent, 250 people. We sat on the Southern end with
> a really brisk (20 mph) wind from the South. DH has had the shot. But, I don't do crowds in a good year, so, we went outside the tent to get the food,
> stayed for a short time, congratulated the bride and groom(his dad has helped us with our farm machinery, we owe him so much) and left.
> 
> Now I am going to worry for 2 weeks about the stupid covid. (we never got closer than 10 feet from anyone,
> kept wind to our backs, etc!, can you say "paranoid")?


I am constantly paranoid this days. You never know if a student is allergies or covid these days. We have a horse show Saturday if we don't get rained/stormed out and we still use precautions when attending. 

Glad you got to enjoy the wedding even if paranoid


----------



## DDFN

happybleats said:


> Good for you going!!.what better way to celebrate in open air.. much safer really!!
> even after getting covid and it kicking my butt..I will not stop living life. I will not stop Enjoying family and social events. I will however, continue to respect others rights for safety. Covid has stollen so much from us already. Love ones, our sense of safe...I won't let it steal my happy times. I won't live in fear, rather live ready to fight when needed. Living life is the best medicine. Of course we need to do our part in slowing the spread and such. But don't stop living!
> 
> Ps. I sure don't mean to sound condescending. The past 3 years have been one health battle after another. Life has thrown me under the bus it seems but I keep coming up swinging. I don't plan to stop now!!


It's do hard to live a life these days. Lost one of the old hay guys to covid last year and a farrier before that. Every where you look there is bad news being shared. It's just trying to live what you can for now.

Hang in there!


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## goathiker

Don's been moved to intensive care and is on life support. He may have aspiration pneumonia. I'll know more tomorrow.


----------



## happybleats

Prayers Jill!!!


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> Don's been moved to intensive care and is on life support. He may have aspiration pneumonia. I'll know more tomorrow.


Oh no praying extra hard for you all now!


----------



## ksalvagno

Praying for you and Don.


----------



## Tanya

goathiker said:


> Don's been moved to intensive care and is on life support. He may have aspiration pneumonia. I'll know more tomorrow.


Oh no. Here is praying for Don.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Sending prayers and positive thoughts for Don. And for you.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Sending prayers you & DH. Thinking of you.


----------



## BarnOwl

I haven’t been able to go back and read all the posts yet. So sorry to hear from all who are sick. Praying for recoveries. My 6 year old just had his first day back in school after testing positive. We were blessed that he had very mild symptoms and also that my husband and I (vaccinated) have tested negative. We had several days of close contact with him before we knew he was positive. My MIL with some serious health conditions tested positive which is scary…but is vaccinated and asymptomatic with 4 days left to go in quarantine. The vaccines seem to have been effective for us so far…though I know some friends of friends who have had breakthrough cases (none hospitalized).


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent. 🙏


----------



## Goats Rock

Praying for Don.


----------



## goathiker

They let Don come off the sedative enough to evaluate him. He was able to follow directions and I was able to talk to him on speaker phone. 
He couldn't talk back but it was something anyway. They say that he's stable and doing well.


----------



## luvmyherd

These are the times when words feel futile. Keeping the best possible thoughts for you and Don.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Prayers Work! Keep the Faith!


----------



## Damfino

goathiker said:


> They let Don come off the sedative enough to evaluate him. He was able to follow directions and I was able to talk to him on speaker phone.
> He couldn't talk back but it was something anyway. They say that he's stable and doing well.


I'm so sorry to hear about Don, but I'm glad he's stable. I hope he improves dramatically over the next few days.


----------



## Tanya

@goathiker . All our prayers to you and your families


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers continue.


----------



## goathiker

They are very slowly starting to weaning Don off the ventilator. 
No news is good news right now. With 3 ICU patients per nurse it's very difficult to get them on the phone. 
They will call if something happens.


----------



## goathiker

I have been able to get a hold of the night nurse each night.


----------



## Tanya

Well. Lets pray Don is going to do well.


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> They let Don come off the sedative enough to evaluate him. He was able to follow directions and I was able to talk to him on speaker phone.
> He couldn't talk back but it was something anyway. They say that he's stable and doing well.


Still praying for you and especially Don! I completely understand the bot being able to talk and when he can do not get stressed if it is just a few words. When my father's friend was in the ICU with covid he manages to text every other day but when he finally got to calling it was about 5 words limit before he was too exhausted to say more. So don't let that scare you as dad's friend made a full recovery and even now has gone back to work 2 days a week. 

Praying for everyone still.


----------



## luvmyherd

Thank you for the update. Many people are praying and holding positive thoughts for you and your family.🧡


----------



## BarnOwl

goathiker said:


> They are very slowly starting to weaning Don off the ventilator.
> No news is good news right now. With 3 ICU patients per nurse it's very difficult to get them on the phone.
> They will call if something happens.


Thinking and praying for you and Don!


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers for Don and any who needs them.


----------



## ksalvagno

Wonderful to hear there is improvement for Don. Continued prayers.


----------



## happybleats

Continued prayers Jill!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Praying for you both.


----------



## goathiker

Thank you for the prayers, I do really appreciate the support. No change tonight. 

Because of many overdose symptoms and a few deaths, all ivermectin has been pulled from the shelves in Oregon. Yet another resource we lost to the stupidity of people.


----------



## Goats Rock

Are people permitted to mail you ivomectrin from other states? Or can you order it from PBS or Jeffers? I say, if people are that stupid, why punish the rest of the 
population? (sorry, I am so sick of people taking away our rights due to their own stupidity).


----------



## AndersonRanch

I’m happy to hear he is doing better. I am now officially done with mine and although mine was mild it still sucked. I’m 36 and super active and healthy (other then my addiction of Mountain Dew) and I feel like it has tried to suck the life out of me. It takes me all day to get one thing Accomplished because I feel like a 90 year old chain smoker. 
Keith who is WAY more active and healthier then I am is back at work and he is feeling the toll on his lungs also and he really didn’t have any symptoms. He had a little cough which we thought was just because he was on a fire for almost 2 months and then lost his taste and smell and that was it. So when he gets done and they send him home please tell him to take it easy. It is a very odd feeling to go from feeling fine one minute and a little work and your air is gone.


----------



## happybleats

Glad your through it @AndersonRanch. It's recommended not to push ourselves but it's hard when you are a "doer". But do try to pace yourself. I did lite house keeping today and can't even count how many times I had to stop to breath. Very frustrating when your brain is ready to go but the body isn't. 🙃


----------



## Moers kiko boars

So Grateful Both you guys are over it! Yes its awful that your energy level is down. But that gives all the rest of us a chance to catch up! 🤪🤣🥰


----------



## AndersonRanch

Ok that is good to know because I wasn’t sure if I should rest my lungs or kinda work them out, obviously not to the point of passing out and there isn’t much working out before that point  but I wasn’t sure. I’ll take it a little more easier on myself. It is hard not to do nothing but it’s like the mind is willing and the body is not.
Gosh Moers Kiko boars anyone could out do me right now! My friend asks if I could work tomorrow and it’s not like it’s hard but I told her there is no possible way I am chancing it. That’s all I need is for a cranky cow to come at me and I can’t run 🤦🏻‍♀️


----------



## DDFN

Definitely take it easy and slow to recover.

Glad everyone seems to be on the mend now

Horrible about the ivermectin. They better not pull it from everywhere. They already make it too hard to get things we need now any way.


----------



## Tanya

When your lungs start hurting you gotta stop. This is not the normal flu. If you work the lungs too much it causes damage. I am so glad that you guys are getting there.


----------



## goathiker

Yeah, and sometimes you don't get your lung function back. I'm still fighting that just less than a year later even though I never had to be hospitalized.


----------



## Tanya

@goathiker I second that


----------



## goathiker

The ICU nurse called late tonight because Don wanted to hear my voice. I couldn't talk long before he got tired. 
He's on a different sedative now that leaves him somewhat awake. 
The hospital he's in has over 2000 covid patients and the staff is working their butts off. I'm trying really hard to not take their time.


----------



## GoofyGoat

@AndersonRanch, I’m so glad you and @happybleats are doing better! Take it slow and easy building back up to your previous workloads. There’s no reason to do more harm than good. It’s a horrible feeling to not be who you were a few months ago, but take joy in that you are still here and with the things most important to you. 
@goathiker, I pray Don keeps improving and gaining strength!


----------



## ksalvagno

I hope everyone fully recovers!


----------



## toth boer goats

Glad to hear you guys are doing better. 
Prayers for Don.

About the Ivomec online, I know they said not available or cannot be sold in California.
Go to the site and see what it says.


----------



## goathiker

Seems to be unavailable for purchase online. I'm not worried about it. I don't use it that often anyway.


----------



## goathiker

Don was had his tube out this morning and was reintubed this evening. He just can't breathe well. They are going to reevaluate in two days and decide whether or not to trach him.
His quality of life would improve significantly with the trach because he would be able to come off the sedative and interact with people.
He's still stable, he is still running a fever occasionally, his odds are about 
50/50.

My mother in law is driving me insane trying to force me to go up there, spend all of my nonexistent savings on hotels and expensive food, and sit there while the hospital is in lockdown. I'm not fully vaccinated yet, Don would never want me in the middle of an outbreak.


----------



## Tanya

Goathiker he is in good hands at the moment. This virus makes unexpected changes so hospitals cannot just anticipate they play a wait and see game. I really hope Don can recoup some with the trach in....


----------



## Goats Rock

Goathiker, It seems to me you are doing the best thing for both of you by not being up there, You cannot go into the hospital to see him, you would still be a telephone call away regardless of your location. Why spend money to sit in a motel room and do nothing but worry? One can do that at home, and it doesn't cost any money! 

Of course the Mother in law is worried, so she probably does not realize how unreasonable she is being. 
(Or maybe she does??!)


----------



## ksalvagno

Can you even go in to the hospital? Covid patients in our hospitals aren't even allowed 1 visitor. You are better off at home. You need to stay healthy for when Don comes home. Continued prayers.


----------



## happybleats

I wasn't allowed any visitors at all. The second day my sweet nurse did sneak my husband in to see that I was ok. But after that it was lock down. They had special equipment set up on the covid floor that pushed air out side and not recirculating to other floors..so it's very isolated.
Jill..MIL is just worried but you hold your ground. You won't be allowed in any way. ((HUGS)) I know your worried too but you are doing the best thing for him...keeping the home front up. I know I rested better knowing everything was running well here.
Continued prayers for Don!! My hospital room mate got to go home and her husband will soon. They were is really bad shape..that is so encouraging


----------



## luvmyherd

Mothers-in-law...AHRRRG!!
Stand your ground and do what you feel is best.
I cannot even imagine what you are going through. Stay strong.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Maybe explain to your mother-in law that you would not be able to be or see him anyway. And not being vacinated, you are safer . Being vacinated does not mean you are immune, it just means your immune defense has been comprimised. 
You are being smart and preparing for Don to come home. His peace of mind with you being home, waiting for him, gives him will to survive. 
If she wants to go. She can find out its a lonely hotel room that costs alot of money to sit in 24 hrs a day.


----------



## Goatastic43

Glad everyone seems to be doing better! Keeping your DH in prayer @goathiker!

Today is our last day of quarantine! Yay!  It’s been quite a roller coaster, but the Lord pulled us through! As I mentioned before, my dad got if first. He had it BAD, was in bed for ten days. He when to the ER once. Thankfully it never got his lungs, but he just felt completely miserable. Long story short we all ended up getting it. Thankfully not as bad as my dad though, just kinda felt like a bad cold. Hallelujah it’s all over now! Thanks for praying for my dad!


----------



## happybleats

Good to hear!!


----------



## AndersonRanch

My uncle did a whole guilt trip thing to my mom when he had it. So she went to visit him, If she wasn’t in the hotel she was with him and all he did was sleep, and this was past the contagious stage. Your doing just fine keeping everything going at home. Don’t let her drive you too crazy, mother in laws don’t think anyone can take care of their sons like they can. And hey if you ever feel like your not being a good DIL just remind yourself your not as bad as me because I flat out refuse to speak to mind 
Goatastic43 Good to hear you and your family is doing better. I’m sorry it knocked your dad down so badly. Keep a eye on your lungs though. I really didn’t feel any toll on mine until I was basically over it. I think I’m doing better every day but it’s still not 100% then again my air is so filled with smoke maybe I am 100% now and it’s just the smoke killing me, although it honestly has never bothered me in the past


----------



## Tanya

❤❤❤❤❤


----------



## happybleats

I lost a distant cousin last week. He was young. Mid 30s. Left behind a wife and two little girls. I sadly did not know him personally as he lived in Nebraska but we were all praying for him. In the end blood clots got him. Please keep his family in your thoughts.


----------



## Goatastic43

Oh I’m so sorry. That’s awful.  Covid is an evil beast.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Sending prayers! Please stay safe!


----------



## Tanya

I am so sorry @happybleats


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.


----------



## goathiker

So sorry Cathy 😪
They never called about putting in the trach. I think that I need to face that Don will probably not come home. 
His bills are coming in now. He left me so completely in debt that I'll probably be homeless soon. 
Guess it's my turn.


----------



## ksalvagno

I'm sorry he is not turning around faster.


----------



## Tanya

@goathiker

Please dont be despondent. I am sure things will become beter. My heart goes out to you. This is such a difficult situation.


----------



## FizzyGoats

What a terrifying and sad thought. I really hope he pulls through and that you and all your animals will be okay as well. I’m so sorry you’re going through such a horrible time.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

You and Don are in my prayers. You are Never alone. Lean on him now. Please keep your chin up. Live in the right now. We dont know the future.


----------



## happybleats

@goathiker I'm so sorry Don's not improving yet but don't loose hope!! He can still rally! 
my hospital bill is coming in slowly now too. I will apply for assistance through the hospital which should cut quite a bit off then I'll make monthly payme to as we can afford. Hang in there friend!


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> So sorry Cathy 😪
> They never called about putting in the trach. I think that I need to face that Don will probably not come home.
> His bills are coming in now. He left me so completely in debt that I'll probably be homeless soon.
> Guess it's my turn.


Praying extra hard for you all. Maybe call places about covid relieve aid. There should be some one to help out with bills since its covid related. Hoping they can get him trach soon.


----------



## toth boer goats

Hang in there. 
He is still with us, have faith and never give up. Prayers are sent by many.


----------



## AndersonRanch

Goathiker I am so sorry your world is crashing down around you. You are one of the strongest people I know. Keep being strong and don’t give up hope! 
I remember hearing something on the news. You will have to look into it but if I remember correctly there is a CARES act that will help with bills for those that do not have health insurance. 
When my dad had to go to the ER years ago and they didn’t have any health insurance one of my moms friends told her to call the hospital and talk to them about lowering the bill. They give health insurance companies a huge break in the bill, so ask for that discount. I don’t think they fully discounted it for my parents but they did lower it some. Hospitals add So much on that they can cut it down. I have insurance but they still send me a copy of the bill they are going to submit to the insurance company. When Joshua broke his arm they charged $30 for two IBprofen pills. So I would call, be firm and see what they can do for you.


----------



## luvmyherd

I am so sorry to hear this news. We will all be thinking of you and remembering you and yours in our prayers.


----------



## jschies

Know that people all over the world are praying for you and your family.


----------



## Tanya

Try these places. We are all praying some one can help


----------



## goathiker

The Cares act expired long ago and the US doesn't help people like me lol. Nice thought but the whole country is out of money.


----------



## Damfino

I'm so sorry to hear about Don. I hope he makes a turnaround real soon.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## jschies

Does anyone know how Goathiker is?


----------



## DDFN

Not since about 4 days ago. Still praying for her and family.


----------



## luvmyherd

Same here.


----------



## happybleats

Ditto. In my thoughts and prayers


----------



## toth boer goats

We are praying for you and your family Goathiker. Hope you are ok. 🙏


----------



## Sfgwife

@goathiker praying things are going uphill for you and your Don!


----------



## Tanya

🙏


----------



## GoofyGoat

We’re thinking of you! and pray things are better. Hang in there!


----------



## goathiker

Don passed at 5:00 this evening without ever waking up. He will be sorely missed.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm

goathiker said:


> Don passed at 5:00 this evening without ever waking up. He will be sorely missed.


I am so sorry!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Praying for you. Im sorry for your loss.


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> Don passed at 5:00 this evening without ever waking up. He will be sorely missed.


We are all so sorry for your loss. There are no words we can say to be enough, but know each and every one of us here are praying for your comfort in this difficult time. We love you and wish we could make everything better if only we could. This pandemic has sucked and it has taken more than its fair share. 

If there is anything you need let us know. We may not have much but think the world of you.


----------



## K.B.

goathiker said:


> Don passed at 5:00 this evening without ever waking up. He will be sorely missed.


Omg I'm so sorry


----------



## Goatastic43

Oh goathiker I’m so sorry! Praying for you and your family!


----------



## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry. Is there anything we can do for you?


----------



## luvmyherd

There just are no words. Most everyone has expressed it as well as I could.


----------



## Tanya

@goathiker

Your loss is so emmense and so painful. There are no words. We are all praying for you.


----------



## AndersonRanch

Oh Jill I can not put into words how sorry I am. If you need anything please let us know.


----------



## GoofyGoat

I’m so so sorry! praying for you and your family. If there’s anything I can do please reach out. We’re here for you! ((HUG))


----------



## BarnOwl

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I'm praying that you are surrounded by people that you love and care about.


----------



## littleheathens




----------



## Damfino

I'm so sorry to hear about Don.


----------



## littleheathens

Jill, I've always admired your presence, knowledge and wit on TGS. The way Don contracted the virus and endured treatment alone just stinks. I hope you know and feel that anything your MIL or the hospital said or did (or anyone else), you did your best- giving the hospital staff needed time to care for their patients and caring for your self and your farm (?) was the right thing to do and Don, as you said, would want the same. 

The gold digger comments, well, it's a little funny to me because it's ludicrous (given what you've shared). When my grandmother passed away one of her last comments was something about 6 yards of black spaghetti. Don't take it personally; it's nonsensical.

When our hearts break, a little light is let in. I hope you can see the light some day soon.


----------



## happybleats

Oh Jill. My heart sunk when I read Don passed away. I'm so deeply sorry. There are no words. ((Hugs)). 😔


----------



## FizzyGoats

I’m so sorry Don passed. I can’t even imagine what you are enduring right now. Prayers are with you.


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh no, I am truly sorry.


----------



## Goats Rock

So very sorry for your loss.


----------



## alwaystj9

I am sorry for your loss, long distance hugs and prayers to you and your families.
If there's anything I can do from Louisiana, let me know.


----------



## Tanya

Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep. 

I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glint on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain. 

When you wake in the morning hush,
I am the swift, uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am the soft starlight at night. 

Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.
(Do not stand at my grave and cry.
I am not there, I did not die!)


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@Tanya just Beautiful! Thankyou


----------



## Tanya

I know this was written in the 1930's. I wish I could remember the authir. I know ber second name was Elizabeth. My grandfather quoted her poem every time we buried a family member. It was read at his funeral. It really is beautiful and reminds us we are still around in different ways


----------



## FizzyGoats

That is truly beautiful @Tanya. 

@goathiker We’re here if you want to talk, scream, rant, cry or even if you’d rather talk about anything but your loss. I wish we could do something to help. My heart breaks for you. 

My son and I recently tested positive for COVID. His work sent him home sick and asked him to get tested, and I’d been sick (was the one who got him sick), so I got tested too and we both tested positive. Luckily, we’re just feeling a bit miserable but nothing serious, no medical intervention needed. I have fibromyalgia and really thought I was in a flare up until the cough started and my son got it. Maybe wearing a hoodie while mucking stalls in 80 F weather should have been a hint. I’m taking lots of breaks between chores and just doing what needs to be done and putting off what I can.


----------



## MellonFriend

@goathiker, I'm so sorry to hear that your husband passed. May he rest in peace. ✝



FizzyGoats said:


> My son and I recently tested positive for COVID. His work sent him home sick and asked him to get tested, and I’d been sick (was the one who got him sick), so I got tested too and we both tested positive. Luckily, we’re just feeling a bit miserable but nothing serious, no medical intervention needed. I have fibromyalgia and really thought I was in a flare up until the cough started and my son got it. Maybe wearing a hoodie while mucking stalls in 80 F weather should have been a hint. I’m taking lots of breaks between chores and just doing what needs to be done and putting off what I can.


I hope you feel better soon Fizzy!


----------



## BarnOwl

FizzyGoats said:


> That is truly beautiful @Tanya.
> 
> @goathiker We’re here if you want to talk, scream, rant, cry or even if you’d rather talk about anything but your loss. I wish we could do something to help. My heart breaks for you.
> 
> My son and I recently tested positive for COVID. His work sent him home sick and asked him to get tested, and I’d been sick (was the one who got him sick), so I got tested too and we both tested positive. Luckily, we’re just feeling a bit miserable but nothing serious, no medical intervention needed. I have fibromyalgia and really thought I was in a flare up until the cough started and my son got it. Maybe wearing a hoodie while mucking stalls in 80 F weather should have been a hint. I’m taking lots of breaks between chores and just doing what needs to be done and putting off what I can.


I hope you feel better soon.  Take it easy if you can!


----------



## Goatastic43

@FizzyGoats hope you recover quickly! Get lots of rest! (Sorry if I sound like a mother hen lol)


----------



## DDFN

FizzyGoats said:


> That is truly beautiful @Tanya.
> 
> @goathiker We’re here if you want to talk, scream, rant, cry or even if you’d rather talk about anything but your loss. I wish we could do something to help. My heart breaks for you.
> 
> My son and I recently tested positive for COVID. His work sent him home sick and asked him to get tested, and I’d been sick (was the one who got him sick), so I got tested too and we both tested positive. Luckily, we’re just feeling a bit miserable but nothing serious, no medical intervention needed. I have fibromyalgia and really thought I was in a flare up until the cough started and my son got it. Maybe wearing a hoodie while mucking stalls in 80 F weather should have been a hint. I’m taking lots of breaks between chores and just doing what needs to be done and putting off what I can.


Oh no so sorry. Take it easy and rest up. Hope you both are back to normal in no time flat.


----------



## Tanya

They are starting to make it compulsory to get the vaccine here. Without it you may lose your job. ☹


----------



## goathiker

Most of the paperwork is finally done. I can't find one of his creditors, maybe not much I can do about that right now. 
Please think before you go paperless billing in a non community state, it's been a headache and a half. 

Things are moving along. The not living with me family is finally leaving me alone to process. The living with me family tries to ignore I exist like always. 

Still have to figure out what I'm going to do. I'm not really happy here in this situation.


----------



## Tanya

goathiker said:


> Most of the paperwork is finally done. I can't find one of his creditors, maybe not much I can do about that right now.
> Please think before you go paperless billing in a non community state, it's been a headache and a half.
> 
> Things are moving along. The not living with me family is finally leaving me alone to process. The living with me family tries to ignore I exist like always.
> 
> Still have to figure out what I'm going to do. I'm not really happy here in this situation.


@goathiker 

Its has been a year since mine passed and like you everything was done without paper. We are still struggling.

My heart breaks to hear that humans are so cruel. When you need your tribe the most they are deserting you. I am so sorry. I really hope that one of them wakes up and realises life is far too short.


----------



## goathiker

My sister already has a tent child, I wonder if she would be okay with a tent sister too lol.


----------



## Tanya

goathiker said:


> My sister already has a tent child, I wonder if she would be okay with a tent sister too lol.


If she loves you she would love a tent sister


----------



## Tanya




----------



## luvmyherd

I am sorry that our lives can be so consumed with technicalities. I remember a man showing up and talking so matter-of-factly to my mom after my father died. I wanted to yell "have a heart man!"
I sincerely hope things work out with the family and the paperwork.


----------



## FizzyGoats

goathiker said:


> My sister already has a tent child, I wonder if she would be okay with a tent sister too lol.


I bet she would. 

The paperwork and technicalities suck. So do the people who suddenly avoid you simply because they don’t know what to say or because they just want sunshine and rainbows in their life. You have so much to do and figure out and an unbelievable amount of stress that it’s hard to even find a way to grieve and process, especially when you don’t have supportive people who are there for you when you need them. I hope you find a way through all this. Right now, it just must be overwhelming.


----------



## toth boer goats

I pray things work out for the better soon. I am truly sorry you have to go through all this.


----------



## Goats Rock

I'm sorry you have so much to deal with!


----------



## littleheathens

@goathiker What are you considering/what are your options? Maybe we can help you decide. It's a great time for a radical change- easier to do and justify.

What did Don do? You mentioned a shop and working on an island in AK...I've been thinking about him, and you, a lot.


----------



## goathiker

Don was the production supervisor in a welding shop he had worked in for many years.
He had been promoted to a job in management he would have started when he was back.
He was supervising a warranty job.

Little traveler has made his way back home. Don bought this little dog for me when I had to stay in Portland and do federal jury duty 20 years ago. He has accompanied both of us on every trip. He's traveled 1000's of miles and managed to make it home one last time.


----------



## Tanya

Oh @goathiker 
My heart breaks for you.


----------



## DDFN

goathiker said:


> View attachment 213947
> Don was the production supervisor in a welding shop he had worked in for many years.
> He had been promoted to a job in management he would have started when he was back.
> He was supervising a warranty job.
> 
> Little traveler has made his way back home. Don bought this little dog for me when I had to stay in Portland and do federal jury duty 20 years ago. He has accompanied both of us on every trip. He's traveled 1000's of miles and managed to make it home one last time.


So sorry. Glad little traveler was able to make it back to you to hold on too. If you need us we are here for you.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Oh gosh, I’m all choked up right now. It’s very touching and so heart breaking that the little dog made it back to you from its final journey. Thank you for sharing that with us. You are constantly in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## happybleats

What a sweet memory to hold. I have no words for your heart ache. Keeping you in my thoughts and sending prayers of comfort.


----------



## ksalvagno

Great memory. I can't even imagine what you are going through.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

I am so sorry. What a tragedy. My son was a self empployed welder for years before he got a really nice job for OGE. He had to carry insurance on himself . Did Don not have to? I do hope their is some monetary compensation to help you. Ive been praying for you. If any of us can help in any way...please just let us know.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## luvmyherd

Oh no! Your story of your Little Traveler made me cry all over again. So happy he found his way back home.


----------



## littleheathens

goathiker said:


> My sister already has a tent child, I wonder if she would be okay with a tent sister too lol.


Do you like Wisconsin? You can come here.


----------



## goathiker

I have never been further east than Idaho and Nevada lol. My youngest son is living in Minnesota though.


----------



## K.B.

goathiker said:


> I have never been further east than Idaho and Nevada lol. My youngest son is living in Minnesota though.


Woo hoo Minnesota  where?


----------



## Tanya

In South Africa, because adults are slow to vaccinate, the President has decreed that children between 12 and 17 can get the vaccination without their parents consent. All this to stay off the UK's red list... ugh


----------



## littleheathens




----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> In South Africa, because adults are slow to vaccinate, the President has decreed that children between 12 and 17 can get the vaccination without their parents consent. All this to stay off the UK's red list... ugh


That's shocking and sad. But when will they make a new vaccine that may actually work? I have seen more fully vaccinated people sick than unvaccinated around here.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

I've been reading a bit about the vax mandate in the U.S. I cannot find a date for implementation. 
I did read that up to 50% of Chicago police could be out of a job. But then Chicago is so low on crime that they probably have way too many police anyway.


----------



## happybleats

A friend in California said they madated vaccines for children 12 and older before attending school. 😡 she said where she is they have parents protesting but honestly to change this parents are going to have to hit them where it hurts...their wallet..pull your kids...no kids..no government money. We have to stand up and fight or we will fall and have no rights at all. 
Police are walking off jobs, medical personnel are walking off the job (I say kudos for them!!) ...what will they do when there's no one to protect them or care for them.


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## Jessica84

Yep our governor came out about a month ago and said it was going to be mandated for children. Today is the day for the protest which is simply do not send your kid to school. My som is currently sleeping instead of being dropped off right now lol the schools does get part of their funding by attendance so in a small way it is hurting them but to be honest I don’t care one way or another if it’s hurting the school. I myself am hoping at the end of the day all the bozos in charge of this going threw can look and see that X kids missed school today. That means we are willing to take our children totally out of public school and the state misses out on all that funding. It also means that if not enough kids are attending a small school it will be shut down. It’s very sad but this is our children. They are also trying to get the religious beliefs of no vaccinations thrown out with this as well. 
So many people are walking out! I don’t watch the news very often any more so most of what I see is off of fakebook but my kids talked me into getting a tick tock account to make cute videos of the animals. Anyways all the videos that are showing soldiers, cops, and nurses walking is unreal! I guess some businesses if they have over I think it’s 100 employees they have to start mandating it as well. So the owners who are against forcing their employees are letting people go. One guy posted he has started with the vaccinated for get down to under what he needs.


----------



## Goatastic43

The ridiculous thing is most of the government officials are all for abortion () which logo is “My body my choice” and yet the same leaders force vaccines on people. It’s so hypocritical and sad!


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## Tanya

All governments are behaving unethically.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

New COVID-19 “circuit breaker” restrictions for Northern B.C.

_"Expanded restrictions will primarily impact indoor gatherings and will be in effect until at least November 19. "_
(Expanded restrictions -- that just made me laugh)

_Restaurants will continue with in-person dining with the use of the B.C. Vaccine Card but serving of alcohol will be limited to 10 p.m. _

Can someone please explain how cutting off alcohol sales in restaurants at 10PM, (but continued food sales are okay) will help to fight a virus?


----------



## DDFN

And what are they doing for those that can't medically have the vaccine? You know the ones that have made it all the way through the pandemic without getting sick or exposed? Yet if those get vaccinated and die or have life long complications from the vaccine they can't sue anyone? What happened to the video evdience they said originally it would never be required. I don't like the way things look like they may be going. You know?!?!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

I'm sure it is all for our own benefit. And for the children. I'm sure it will all be explained so we all understand. Just like masks.....


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## Moers kiko boars

@Mike at Capra Vista ...You so Funny😁🤣🤪😂


----------



## Jessica84

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I'm sure it is all for our own benefit. And for the children. I'm sure it will all be explained so we all understand. Just like masks.....


And THAT right there is the reason I am anti THIS vaccine! Let’s see they chant no masks it won’t do anything it’s worse for you (I do believe that) to masks are going to save us all! To get the vaccine and you won’t have to wear a mask to oh but you can be a super spreader and even though the vaccine will keep you from getting it you can still spread it. Then oh yeah you have to come in what every 6 months to get a booster, and then ha! It doesn’t even really do much you will still get it just not as bad as you would without it. What a joke! I wish they would shut up and just do the research on it! Because I’m looking at them flopping around with different info and on the side I see my fully vaccinated friend end up with covid and was WAY sicker then I was, and she is much younger and healthier then I am. I’m seeing people claim 80 year old grandma now gets periods again (which I would a livid 80 year old), how boys under 30 are having heart issues with one vaccine. Little girls are going to the ER because they are having heavy periods that lasts for over a month and are anemic. People that have muscle tremors and the list goes on. So no way am I going to take it. And the sad truth is POSSIBLE some of these stories are crap, but how would I know since there is no studies being shared and they can’t even decide if a mask is worth wearing or not. So yeah I’m going to play it safe and no needle is come at me or my kids!


----------



## FizzyGoats

Recommending it for children is what really makes me take a stand against it. They are the lowest risk group while there is evidence for increased myocarditis in vaccinated young males. So the risk of the vaccine in children is higher than the risk of having serious complications from covid. There should be strong recommendations against giving healthy young people this vaccine. Not to mention there is no way to determine if there are long term effects. We should be horribly ashamed if we start sacrificing our children for the sake of the elderly.


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## DDFN

It's going to take every single person to complain or sue before they stop the madness they are doing. It's turning into a dictator ship if they start mandates to all. It's just sad.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

dictator ship: (with apologies)











*USS Dictator (1864-1883)*


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## Tanya

So what does revelations say? Dragon with 9 heads and 10 extensions?


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## goathiker

If you want to understand revelations you need to read Elijah.

There's a 99% chance that had my husband been vaccinated he would have come back home. 
There's been vaccine mandates for more than 30 years. Everyone complained about them as well. In the end the complainers never had a footing..it is rather interesting that because of the mandate very few died from flu last year.

I have to laugh at the microchip theory. They don't need it and would never put out the extra money. There's a small island off of Australia that has a whole team recording every one of your phones. They know exactly where you are. Why would they duplicate the system?


----------



## Tanya

I am not a bible basher nor looking at putting this in the bible...

Here is South Africa children are mandated to be vaccinated up to the age of 12. We also have people who do not want this for their children.

I must say I have never gotten flu vaccines but with my "normal health" deteriorating the way it has I was vulnerable.

Your Don was special to you.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

goathiker said:


> I have to laugh at the microchip theory. They don't need it and would never put out the extra money. There's a small island off of Australia that has a whole team recording every one of your phones. They know exactly where you are. Why would they duplicate the system?


I was going to just say that, since I lead a very sheltered life, the only place I have heard about the microchip theory is here on this thread.
BUT
I did a little bit of Googling DuckDuckGoing to try to understand the basic "theory" and came across a survey from July 2021 asking:
How likely is it that "The U.S. government is using the COVID-19 vaccine to microchip the population", is true?
15% of Americans said this was "probably true" while another 5% said it was "definitely true" and 14% were unsure.
This was fairly consistent across various nonpolitical demographics, though college grads believed it at half the rate of those without a degree.
So, 20% of Americans think there are microchips in vaccine. Wow. I wonder if it is the same here in Canada.

Then I gave up reading.
I still don't know how that is supposed to work. Microchips are very small but still giant relative to the injection needle. The vaccine vials contain several dosses. How many microchips are in the vials? Hundreds?


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## Moers kiko boars

Read about companies in Ohio ,that went cashless. All vending machines have scanners where you swipe your back of the hand, where the implant is.
In Florida the microchip has all the medical records and they are discussing implanting that in humans. They already are doing it in Animals.
Bill Gates and his wife had an Interview on TV about implanting their microchip in the vaccine. He was very proud of it. I believe he is working with Pfizer.

@Tanya ..the Revalations verse you are refereing to are the contries that join to follow the AntiChrist.


----------



## BarnOwl

Well, I work in healthcare and was fortunate enough to get the vaccine when it was first approved last December. I was slightly worried about side-effects but was willing to be a "guinea pig" for the people who were more scared than me. I was concerned about bringing home the virus to my husband and young kids, my eldery relatives who were more at risk, and people in my community that I might encounter.

To me the risk of Covid (not just to me but the risk of spreading it to others I care about) seems higher than the risk of vaccination. Of the dozens of people I know who are vaccinated, none have had serious adverse reactions. But I do know people who have died of Covid. I am blessed that none of those people have been in my immediate circle of friends and family, but I fear it is only a matter of time if things don't change. So far, my husband and I have had multiple Covid exposures--most of them causal, some in masked situations, some non-masked, and so far we have seemingly remained Covid-free.

Sadly, my 6-year-old was not so lucky and caught Covid in September in his first two weeks of kindergarten. I was worried sick, but thankfully his case was about as mild as a mom could wish for--about 4 days of 99-101 degree fever and a sore throat. We had him stay in his room as much as possible and we wore masks in his presence once we knew he was positive. My husband and I (both vaxxed) never had any symptoms and tested negative. My in-laws were the only others exposed to my knowledge, and they are both over age 65, have significant health problems, and are both vaxxed; my MIL, who has been hospitalized in the past with breathing problems, tested positive. Even though she was asymptomatic she was able to get the antibody treatment because of her age and health history. She remained symptom-free. We are incrediably thankful that she is okay and humbled by the experience. I have known of people (not personally) who have had breakthrough cases after vaccination, though they did not require hospital care.

I will evaluate the situation when the time comes, but for the sake of people in my community who are elderly or immune-compromised, I will probably get my 6- and 4-year-olds vaccinated if it is approved. As a healthcare worker, I was allowed to get my booster, and did so last week--along with my flu shot.

I have two young children, a small "farm," a job, and insurance I don't particularly trust--I really can't afford to get sick. The husband and I have kids and animals that depend on us and no one to help if we're down, so I'll do what I can to stay healthy. I pray everyday for my community, church, schools, and neighbors--that we stick together and keep looking out for each other. I get disheartened when I spend too much time online or on certain social media sites. When I start feeling angry or frusterated, I am thankful that I can come here to TGS and talk about goats with friendly people, go outside and feed treats to happy chickens or pigs, or scratch the goats, or take my dogs on a stroll through the woods.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Moers kiko boars said:


> Read about companies in Ohio ,that went cashless. All vending machines have scanners where you swipe your back of the hand, where the implant is.
> In Florida the microchip has all the medical records and they are discussing implanting that in humans. They already are doing it in Animals.


Sure, but none of that counters anything I've said. You still have to create invisibly small microchips that float around in the clear vaccine liquid in a vial that contains several doses. The microchips they put in animals and people are way, way too bit to use unnoticed. Also, they are passive microchips. You need a nearby scanner to read them. You cannot fine a lost dog with a microchip, but once found by someone, he can be identified with a scanner.
If you want a chip to also send out info, you need a power source and a way to collect data and a way to send data. All that adds a lot to the size of the implant.
Think about putting a chip in the back if the hand if the people in Ohio without the person noticing. And also unnoticed by the person putting it in.



Moers kiko boars said:


> Bill Gates and his wife had an Interview on TV about implanting their microchip in the vaccine. He was very proud of it. I believe he is working with Pfizer.


This would be interesting to watch. Do you have a link?


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## toth boer goats

It is said the vaccine weakens your immunity, causing you to get COVID anyway.
Vaccine or not, you can still get it. 
Why subject your body to something which does not protect you in the first place and why would you have to receive multiples shots, why?

Most people who do not get the vaccine have a stronger immune system to fight off the virus. 
Unless they have another underlining illness already, so they cannot fight. 

Many cases of deaths, we have been lied to, most doctors are paid to say someone died from COVID when it was something totally different. To scare us into getting the jab. 

Many who have had COVID who survive, build an immunity against the virus. 

Masks weaken our immune system as well. Our bodies take in many bacteria etc daily which helps our bodies fight against these things.
Masking up stops that cycle creating a bad situation. 
Natural immunity is best for our bodies.

Seems pointless getting the vaccine. Many young kids having heart issues. Other people having seizures, death. 

A vaccine being pushed and forced onto us and with the president raising his voice at us, seems to me very unnerving in itself and raises a big red flag.

We should be able to choose, like all the past vaccines, not it being pushed and forced onto us. We should be able to choose. 

Many people are fighting back and standing up, walking off the jobs and protesting or suing against the mandate. 
Airline workers won recently and were asked to return. 
If the whole staff leaves, they have no business and will not be able to hire new workers with the rule. 

Stand your ground, if you do not want the jab.


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## DDFN

Some individuals have actually died from the vaccine 3 days after the second shot, others from the first shot, some have life long disabilities now from the vaccine. Some people have actual medical reasons why they are not getting the shots and have been advised it was not in their best interests. If those individuals are forced to be vaccinated to continue working who will pay for their life long medical treatment for adverse reactions and side effects? Who will pay for the medical bills and funeral costs from those forced vaccinations? I am all for those that can get it then getting the shot but not everyone can. My father can hardly close his hands and many days he feels like he can't do anything from the pain, swelling and limited use of his hands. He has no strength left in them now either all after his vaccinations. I know several people that went anaphylactic and had to be rushed by ambulance to the local hospitals. 

Yes the virus is horrible, no there is not chips in the vaccine, if you can medical get vaccinated then it is a great idea to help increase the survival rate, but it should not be mandated. We currently still have freedom of speech and I don't mind sharing my opinions. Yes people can track our phones and listen if they want to but I have always been a believer don't say anything you wouldn't say to a person's face. 

I am sorry loved ones have passed and my heart goes out to all impacted by this virus, but loved ones that were fully vaccinated still died. I have a family member fully vaccinated that died. 

What they need to do is make a better vaccine as this one has already been out smarter by the virus and the mutations are different than the initial design. Every where you go in medical offices and shops around here you see the signs even if fully vaccinated masks required. But schools do not allow it. Teachers can't mention the word mask to students this year when last year we had to remind them every few minutes to pull them up over their noses. 

I just feel in my personal opinion if there is a vaccination mandated for covid more people will die and the long terms effects may harm our future (children young adults ) more than the world may know at this time.

What would be smart is to actually contact trace or notify people when they have been exposed. Allow paused time off from work for those exposed or sick. There for the longest around here it was come into work until your showing symptoms or with symptoms come in until test results come back or go home 10 days max then come back no matter how you feel. I have heard it all from various family members. Some worked medical and had to still work when their household had a positive member and their HR department wouldn't let them QT or even wait for test results. 


Sorry long post and hope I didn't offend anyone. I love you all dearly but just feel that people should have a choice. But everyone is not the same and not everyone can medically vaccinate without risking life and well being.

Love you all! 

If I go MIA know the government picked me up for my opinion and freedom of speech.

Maybe I should make a tinfoil hat or full outfit now lol


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## toth boer goats

OK, thread was reported, someone is upset about where things are going in this thread conversation.

We need to be careful of what we write, people have feelings and we need to respect others.

There is so much speculation out there on covid and the vaccine, we don't know what is true and what is not and it can get very confusing and upsetting.
This crisis is horrible no matter how we feel about the vaccine.

I had to delete a couple of things, to make it more friendly.
Please read and re-read what you wrote before posting to make sure it doesn't hurt others. 

I really hate to lock this thread, so be careful.


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## Jessica84

Toth you are 100% right because a good friend of my parents actually went to court to change the husbands fathers cause of death to the actual stroke he had not covid.


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## Tanya

@Moers kiko boars 
So lets count the countries so far that have jumped on the bandwagon about firing people without the vaccine, or kids being vaccinated without parental consent, or even the vaccine passport?


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## Goats Rock

The whole thing and all the misinformation is scary. I just hope we can get it all behind us at some point. 
Life is confusing enough without all this mess going on! 

All I know is that my employees don't care if I get vaccinated or not- they only want production, when they demand it. 
Who are my employers? GOATS! 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐, etc. They are the only ones that I have to answer to!


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## DDFN

I was trying to keep checking threads to chat about (been a stressful day). And it was saying down for maintenance so I thought my tin foil wasn't working now.


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## Moers kiko boars




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## Goats Rock

I'll pass on the chipping! Thank you.....


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## FizzyGoats

I’m likely to irritate people on both sides of the argument. I’ve already gone into details (way earlier in the thread) on the actual immune response and the body’s reaction to the shot, and the major negative I see is that the vaccine can facilitate an inflammatory response in dangerous places (heart and brain for example) where the virus does not naturally go. I also still find the immense pressure to get what equates to an experimental medical intervention to be bizarre but haven’t figured that one out yet. 

Research is difficult because it so politicized and so called experts aren’t and it seems to go in circles. From what I’ve gathered, the vaccine lowers the likelihood of death from for those in a high risk group. So it has its value and place and certain people should absolutely consider getting the vaccine. I can’t only recognize its strengths though, it also has its limitations and risks, one being you can still get and spread the virus and often unwittingly if you show no symptoms. At least if you have symptoms, you stay home. Allowing an inflammatory response in dangerous places and posing a higher risk than the virus does to the young and healthy are two other notable risks. 

Mandating a vaccine for children should be held to certain criteria, one is that the risks of contracting the virus should largely outweigh risks associated with the vaccine. That isn’t the case for this vaccination. Myocarditis is higher in young vaccinated males than unvaccinated. Other complications are popping up but I haven’t found enough trustworthy sources to form a solid conclusion. There is no way to know the long term effects. I would advise anyone thinking it’s good for their children to do a lot of research (I find it helpful to look at data/studies from multiple countries, and attempt to find places where it’s not as politicized). And I would ask that you do not do it for fear of them infecting others. Those who are at high risk should consider the vaccine and take extra precautions to protect themselves. We should resist vaccinating our (very low risk) children with something we know so little about as a means to shield the (high risk) elderly.


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## Kass

I now have covid. I'm actually very surprised it took this long considering the amount of places if been without a mask. Long story short I got it from a friend thinking it was a cold until she tested positive. Waiting for my results but have every symptom she had. Quarantining with her and her sister, we all have it, to keep my family from getting it. Definitely not fun at all, but no worse than a really bad flu/cold. 

Sent from my SM-A115U using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Tanya

I hope you feel better soon Kass


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## happybleats

I get well soon Kass!!


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## DDFN

Get well soon and best wishes!


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## ksalvagno

Get well soon!


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## Kass

Thank you all! I'm praying for all of your families as well! 

Sent from my SM-A115U using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Moers kiko boars

Sending prayers to you and your friends. Please pay attention to your lungs. Its so important to move a little each & everyday to keep you oxygen level up. Take care, please keep us posted.


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent, get well soon.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

FizzyGoats said:


> Research is difficult because it so politicized


That is the key and the real problem.
For years now I have lived by the motto: it is political until shown otherwise. So, thinking a situation has to do with politics (including money and power) is my starting point.



FizzyGoats said:


> risks of contracting the virus should largely outweigh risks associated with the vaccine.


I don't think logical thinking is appropriate. (and it is probably racist)


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Kass, hope you and your friends have a quick recovery.



Kass said:


> a friend thinking it was a cold


I thought these days everyone assumes everything is Covid.


----------



## littleheathens

Moers kiko boars said:


> Sending prayers to you and your friends. Please pay attention to your lungs. Its so important to move a little each & everyday to keep you oxygen level up. Take care, please keep us posted.


YES! When I had bronchitis, the nurse said, no matter how tired, try to walk around 15 minutes each day (preferably outdoors) or take some really deep breaths (think sun salutations, if that means anything to you) to prevent pneumonia from setting in.


----------



## Kass

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Kass, hope you and your friends have a quick recovery.
> 
> 
> I thought these days everyone assumes everything is Covid.


Her sister had it and we thought it was a cold because she was down for a few days but is feeling better. She gave it to my friend and my friend gave it to me before we thought to test. It was unbelievable because none of us wear masks except to school and we thought we would have gotten it already if we were going to. Now the 3 of us are quarantined. 

Sent from my SM-A115U using Goat Forum mobile app


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## littleheathens

goathiker said:


> it is rather interesting that because of the mandate very few died from flu last year.


It is more likely that everyone's heightened care, social distancing, closed/restricted entertainment, decreased travel, masking, and improved hygiene made the flu less severe. It's self deprecating to cough, sniffle, or touch your face in public...we are SO careful.


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## goathiker

Yeah, that was all part of the mandates. Stores won't let you in with a cough or the sniffles here. You are out of luck lol.


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## Goats Rock

Everytime I go into a store, if they have Air conditioning- I get congested and have to clear my throat. Then I feel like a leper! Everyone looks at you- 
(which is why I only go to the groc. store half hour before it closes- no one is there!).


----------



## Sfgwife

Goats Rock said:


> Everytime I go into a store, if they have Air conditioning- I get congested and have to clear my throat. Then I feel like a leper! Everyone looks at you-
> (which is why I only go to the groc. store half hour before it closes- no one is there!).


Lol omg yes! And the seasonal allergies right now....


----------



## luvmyherd

My daughter was actually pulled from her classroom today because her partner teacher tested positive. My daughter is pretty high risk for complications but thankfully tested negative.
She is vaccinated but I guess we will never know if that helped or not.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Oh boy, oh boy! Canada now has a federal vaccine passport. Apparently not yet available in here B.C. where we have our own provincial passport.
Like income tax, the passport is just temporary and will not be expanded to include other things.
I wonder how long before someone hacks/fakes the passports.
This is great. It's for the children.


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## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Oh boy, oh boy! Canada now has a federal vaccine passport. Apparently not yet available in here B.C. where we have our own provincial passport.
> Like income tax, the passport is just temporary and will not be expanded to include other things.
> I wonder how long before someone hacks/fakes the passports.
> This is great. It's for the children.


I am at a loss for words.


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## luvmyherd

This thing seems to permeate every bit of our lives. Our 50th anniversary is next week. We have been telling people to save the date for six years. Last year at this time we thought it would all be behind us. Well, best laid plans and all that.
We tossed it around all year. We finally settled on a compromise between the full on blow out (we had originally planned Disneyland!) and just family.
We are having it at Rod's mom's house where there is plenty of room for social distancing. I am ordering food from a local Mexican restaurant and some from an Asian. I am going to make Kalua pig and rice and a few other Polynesian dishes. Trying to avoid things that require a lot of touching. (Cupcakes instead of having to cut a cake, individual candy and nut cups instead of bowls etc.)
Anyway, all of that to say that we and most of our friends and family are vaccinated but we will not demand it. I trust those who are not to be responsible. The fly in the ointment was our two unvaxxed sons who live with us got sick. Even though we were all sure it was not Covid; we had them get tested. Negative so no problem but I could not in good conscious invite people in if I thought there was a chance any of us had been exposed.
Just another rant on how this thing affects us in so many ways.


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## Goats Rock

Happy 50th! What a great accomplishment! I'm so sorry that you are not having the celebration that you deserve.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

luvmyherd said:


> We are having it at Rod's mom's house where there is plenty of room for social distancing.


I don't seem to be able to find the date and address.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Goats Rock said:


> Happy 50th! What a great accomplishment! I'm so sorry that you are not having the celebration that you deserve.


Ditto!!!!!


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## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I don't seem to be able to find the date and address.


Ok Mike are you picking me up on the way to her secret event lol

On a serious note sounds like a good way to still celebrate and social distance at the same time! That pig sounds yummy too!


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## luvmyherd

Thanks for some laughs guys! Part of the original plans involved inviting people here but we are holding it down to 20-25.
BTW we are in Central California and have friends (who we met over 10 years ago on a different site) from Yakima who are making it and staying a few days. Just that takes away some of the disappointment.


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## littleheathens

Can I just put this here?....https://nomoresilence.world/


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## Moers kiko boars

Congrats on 50 years! Hope you have an outstanding day. Take pictures for us to uuuuu & ahhhhh over. Especially the food🤣😂🤪


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## Wcd

littleheathens said:


> Can I just put this here?....https://nomoresilence.world/


Seems like there is a lot of information not getting out there? Glad our Governor has become reacquainted with the 10th Amendment.


----------



## Goats Rock

This Ivomec / Covid thing is really starting to irk me. I found a bottle of Ivomec injectable at TSC the other day- the price is over inflated, but my one group of bucks
has horrible skin- mites for sure. So, since Ive battled that before, I know injectable Ivomec works well. In order to get the bottle, I had to state that it was for livestock,
(I shop at that TSC alot- spend thousands there every year, am tax exempt, smell like a barn, usually. I am NO CITY person, they know this) sign a paper stating that if 
a human injest or injects it, they will not hold TSC liable. What??? Incredible. All I wanted was to give my stupid buck a shot- 
In my opinion, if someone is stupid enough to inject livestock medications and suffer bad consequences, that is on them. I say, quit listening to all the nonsense on social media and 
do real research!


----------



## Wcd

Goats Rock said:


> This Ivomec / Covid thing is really starting to irk me. I found a bottle of Ivomec injectable at TSC the other day- the price is over inflated, but my one group of bucks
> has horrible skin- mites for sure. So, since Ive battled that before, I know injectable Ivomec works well. In order to get the bottle, I had to state that it was for livestock,
> (I shop at that TSC alot- spend thousands there every year, am tax exempt, smell like a barn, usually. I am NO CITY person, they know this) sign a paper stating that if
> a human injest or injects it, they will not hold TSC liable. What??? Incredible. All I wanted was to give my stupid buck a shot-
> In my opinion, if someone is stupid enough to inject livestock medications and suffer bad consequences, that is on them. I say, quit listening to all the nonsense on social media and
> do real research!


Not being sarcastic but if its me ok thanks I will take my business elsewhere.

On your second point that is really a stretch independent , critical thought, reasoning, have gone the way of the library book.


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## toth boer goats

It is a pain, but they have to cover themselves in case. 
You wouldn’t believe how many people who are not smart and will try it.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

*Scientists mystified, wary, as Africa avoids COVID-19 disaster*








 Scientists mystified, wary, as Africa avoids COVID-19 disaster


When COVID-19 first emerged, health officials feared the pandemic would sweep across Africa, killing millions. Although it's still unclear what COVID-19's ultimate toll will be, that catastrophic scenario has yet to materialize in much of the continent.




www.ctvnews.ca





I seems a lot of African counties are doing better without a lot of injections than many "western" countries that are well inoculated.


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## Tanya

South Africa has seen a drop in cases and deaths too. We are hoping to see it drop more in 2022


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## luvmyherd

It is really confusing as we have a fairly high vaccination rate but cases are on the rise again. A county north of us is going back into lockdown. It is so hard to know what to think and who to believe.
We can only visit my MIL outside and it is getting too cold for that. I know the home is trying to protect themselves but I know they could find a way for us to go inside and not threaten others. With all of the breakthrough cases; being vaccinated doesn't really help.


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## Goats Rock

My neighbors (farm neighbors, 3 miles away) the elderly parents in their 80's, daughter and son in 60's all had the double dose of vaccine. All got Covid after the 
mother fell and broke her hip- they kept her home- but, somehow- from the hospital they guess, they all got Covid- What a fiasco for them. They are recovering-
but- the vaccine, it didn't work? I don't know.....


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## Moers kiko boars

My mother..94 years old. DR told her No Vaccine..it would kill her. I agree 100 %.


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## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> My mother..94 years old. DR told her No Vaccine..it would kill her. I agree 100 %.


It very well could. My dad can hardly close his hands since he had his shots. I have seen so many with issues but not much mentioned on the news.


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## luvmyherd

My MIL has tested positive twice (once before and once after her vaccine) but never had any symptoms. The vaccine never seemed to cause her any trouble either. She is 96.
Maybe she had some weird immunity already. Who knows!?!


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## Tanya

Ok, so. You know how I have been struggling with this thing.... just cant get it out of my system. My Dr. decided it was time to try something else. I was given the Johnsons and Johnsons vaccine in September. Guess what? I have two negative results and my symptoms are lessening slowly but surely..... So, tell me how that works???


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## littleheathens

That's so interesting Tanya, maybe coincidence, too. There is a movement to screen for covid before vaccinating because there are many instances of people getting vaccinated while infected that result in severe adverse reactions (paralysis, blood clots in brain, etc). That's a pretty risky suggestion for a doctor to make. BUT, I'm not sure the doctors (or victims) saying that those people wouldn't have had severe reactions if they didn't have covid at vax time, don't really know that either. There's a whole movement though, to catch the asymptomatic cases- #screenbeforevaccine. Did you know about this risk before the jab?

I'm so glad you are feeling better!


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## happybleats

There are certainly more questions than answers when it comes to how the vaccines will effect those who get it. Imo too many questions that really need answers before they start jabbing everyone. We have zero idea of the long term effect. One dr suggested in one if his patience who was healthy before being vaccinated is now suffering from auto immunity disease. Others say they have no symtoms after the vaccine. Tanya, Im glad your feeling better. I have no answer to why the vaccine would support your health when for so many it's quite the opposite. ((Hugs))


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## Moers kiko boars

The humans became the largest research study of all medical history. PETA , Human Society, and several other groups protect the animals. No organization protects the human race. Only profits from it. Think about it. 🤷‍♀️


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## toth boer goats

Scary stuff, vaccine mandates are just that, mandates. They cannot be enforced, as it is not considered a law.


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## littleheathens

No organization protects the human race. Only profits from it. Think about it. 🤷‍♀️

I'm so tired of thinking about it!! There are lots of groups trying to be heard and protect choice, but they are being silenced and/or classified as misinformation.

For a long time I was feeling lonely in our viewpoints (over 80% of my county is vaxed, with little kids and the rollouts in schools it's probably close to 90% now). One day, a couple of months ago, I wondered what my TGS buddies thought and started poking around-- I'm so glad I found you all talking about this here! Whew!


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## Mike at Capra Vista

toth boer goats said:


> Scary stuff, vaccine mandates are just that, mandates. They cannot be enforced, as it is not considered a law.


Yes, but if laws around the mandate make ignoring the mandate near impossible, than there is not much difference. It is fine to say I will not get arrested for not having the vax, but if I can get arrested for going outside or to a theatre or to a demonstration, or I can loose my job if not vaxed,then I would say it is pretty much the law.


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## Boers4ever

My parents got the vax and I have no problem with that. It’s their choice. I myself have mixed feelings about it. They got it since we have had many family members and friends die over the last year from the virus that are the same age as them. Our family doc talked to them about it and was totally for it. And I can definitely see why they got it. But I’m just going to lay low for awhile and see what happens. People my age doesn’t seem to be coming down with it. Not around here anyways.


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## toth boer goats

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Yes, but if laws around the mandate make ignoring the mandate near impossible, than there is not much difference. It is fine to say I will not get arrested for not having the vax, but if I can get arrested for going outside or to a theatre or to a demonstration, or I can loose my job if not vaxed,then I would say it is pretty much the law.


 I know how you feel.
However, when a full staff joins together and walks off the job leaving the business with no workers so they are not making money for their business, and all of a sudden, they tell all the employees come back we won’t enforce it, that is fighting back against the mandate.
When governors are saying no, to the mandate, we are winning.

Some states are suing to override this mandate.
We need to stand up and fight like others. We will win. Our bodies, our choice.


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## Sfgwife

toth boer goats said:


> I know how you feel.
> However, when a full staff joins together and walks off the job leaving the business with no workers so they are not making money for their business, and all of a sudden, they tell all the employees come back we won’t enforce it, that is fighting back against the mandate.
> When governors are saying no, to the mandate, we are winning.
> 
> Some states are suing to override this mandate.
> We need to stand up and fight like others. We will win. Our bodies, our choice.



AMEN!


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## goathiker

Tanya said:


> Ok, so. You know how I have been struggling with this thing.... just cant get it out of my system. My Dr. decided it was time to try something else. I was given the Johnsons and Johnsons vaccine in September. Guess what? I have two negative results and my symptoms are lessening slowly but surely..... So, tell me how that works???


Because for 20% of long timers the vaccine will cure the symptoms that aren't permanent. 
The Johnson's isn't long lasting though so, it's not a permanent solution. 
My DH requested that I get my shots just before he was on the ventilator and my lung capacity and balance have completely come back.


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## Tanya

I knew the risks. I just couldnt do this any more. At least now I can be outside with my animals and not feel like abtrain hit me while trying to get down two stairs.


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## FizzyGoats

I’m so glad you are feeling better! 

It is a good choice for some people. A bad one for others. It’s the choice part being slowly taken away that worries me.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im vax free..have had a mild case of covid! Im thankful my goats keep me outside & healthy. Im doing phyisical labor every day. Im not around other human disease bags. I do vitamins and I eat healthy, that includes meat. I drink water and enjoy my freedom from tyrrany and Fake News. 
Its a choice. It just depends how strong & healthy you are. But its always a choice.


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## brigieboo

toth boer goats said:


> I know how you feel.
> However, when a full staff joins together and walks off the job leaving the business with no workers so they are not making money for their business, and all of a sudden, they tell all the employees come back we won’t enforce it, that is fighting back against the mandate.
> When governors are saying no, to the mandate, we are winning.
> 
> Some states are suing to override this mandate.
> We need to stand up and fight like others. We will win. Our bodies, our choice.


My brother is a CNA at a hospital. They said you get the vax or you need weekly testing and you have to pay a monthly fine. A looot of nurses and doctors said they would quit and the hospital ended up lowering the fine so it's not that much, and decided the weekly testing would be honor system so it's basically you get tested if you wanted to. My brother said he was talking to a surgeon and the surgeon said he wasn't getting the vax no matter what because of all the finger amputations he's had to do from blood clots as a result of the vaccine. .....kinda scary.

Haha you're right, but "my body my choice" doesn't seem to work anymore......weird how it only applies to some things 🙄


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## luvmyherd

There is so much here. I will start by saying that I have always been against vaccine mandates. My daughters and I have long fought (and lost) the requirement for routine vaccines for children on the west coast.
I also feel that this case is extreme. My wish is that those who choose not to vax will take precautions to help prevent the spread. Either staying away from others or masking up.
After studying everything we could; most of us have chosen the jab. But we hold no malice against those who have not. But when our son who lives here got a really bad cold; we insisted on two tests. They were both negative.
None of us has had any serious short term side effects.


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## toth boer goats

I hear ya.


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## Tanya

Oh Crikey. SOUTH AFRICA have a new varient which will get a greek name soon..... and there goes our lockdown freedome... and I start a new job next week.... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH


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## happybleats

Yikes Tanya. How many strains has Africa had?


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## DDFN

Tanya said:


> Oh Crikey. SOUTH AFRICA have a new varient which will get a greek name soon..... and there goes our lockdown freedome... and I start a new job next week.... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH


What? We are running out of names for the different varients. Ok I am done with all this covid stuff. Just wake me up when it's over.

Ps hang in there and good luck with the new job. How will the lockdown affect the new job?


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## Tanya

To be honest I have lost count already.

I dont know how it affects my new job... 😢 will probably hear in the next few days


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## DDFN

They should use the hurricane naming process. Start at a go through the alphabet and restart once to z. It's sad.


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## luvmyherd

Oh Tanya I am sorry. I know you have been through so much already. 
I can't help wondering what would have happened if we had just let this thing run its course. Might have been way worse but I still wonder. Like everyone else I am just so ready to be done but have to keep myself from getting careless. I do not want to end up in the hospital. Or even get really sick.


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## ksalvagno

This is a virus. All viruses mutate. This is never going away and a "vaccine" is never going to get rid of it. Otherwise the flu would have gone away long time ago.


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## DDFN

ksalvagno said:


> This is a virus. All viruses mutate. This is never going away and a "vaccine" is never going to get rid of it. Otherwise the flu would have gone away long time ago.


I tried sharing this opinion locally and was shunned. I worked in a pathology lab many years ago. So many more people locally are talking about having break through cases and I tried explaining the mutations and how if they really wanted the vaccine to work they needed to redesign it for the mutated strains but it would be hard to keep them all at bay. They looked at me like I was an uneducated person and didn't seem to believe in mutations. I gave up trying to explain at that point. They didn't even understand that there are multiple types of flu vaccines for this reason.


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## ksalvagno

Why do people think they need the flu shot every year? Because of new strains. It shouldn't but it stuns me that people don't understand that.


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## DDFN

ksalvagno said:


> Why do people think they need the flu shot every year? Because of new strains. It shouldn't but it stuns me that people don't understand that.


Or when they end up getting one of the A type vaccines when it's the B running around and vice versa. Then complain when they still get the flu when it was the wrong vaccine they took.


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## Moers kiko boars

Thankyou...EXACTLEY! Im retired medical. I told many of my patients this. If we cant CURE the common cold, how in the world can we cure a virus? We can suppress it. Thats all. Big Pharma loves the ignorance of the general public. They feed off of them. Thats why they are the largest lobbyists in the government. Big money!


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## toth boer goats




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## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> Thankyou...EXACTLEY! Im retired medical. I told many of my patients this. If we cant CURE the common cold, how in the world can we cure a virus? We can suppress it. Thats all. Big Pharma loves the ignorance of the general public. They feed off of them. Thats why they are the largest lobbyists in the government. Big money!


Exactly. I wished more people around here thought like you and we may have a fighting chance in this world.


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## Tanya

Moers kiko boars said:


> Thankyou...EXACTLEY! Im retired medical. I told many of my patients this. If we cant CURE the common cold, how in the world can we cure a virus? We can suppress it. Thats all. Big Pharma loves the ignorance of the general public. They feed off of them. Thats why they are the largest lobbyists in the government. Big money!


I agree.


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## luvmyherd

Ditto! We do not get flu shots because it is a crap shoot. As a substitute teacher I got lots of work for teachers who were sick from the shot. I also had a science teacher say she couldn't understand why anyone would get a flu shot.
What really drives me crazy is when they admit that they have the wrong strain but tell us we should get it anyway🤪


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## Goats Rock

The common cold is a coronavirus. It just so happens that the Covid19 coronavirus is more serious than what is seen as the common cold
that everyone gets as soon as the weather gets colder and more people stay inside, or go to Walmart. (why do sick people go there? Stay home if you
have a cough are ill!) 

They can't cure a cold, it is continually changing- ie. mutating. If is didn't, change or mutate, there would be no common cold. I think the word "mutate"
is what bothers people- they think of Teenage mutant ninja turtles, mutant monsters, etc. It only means 'change'. 

If you think about it, that is what has happened to all the worms (parasites) livestock gets. They have mutated to become immune to the various wormers
that are used. They simply got used to the poison- the weak ones died and the strong got stronger!


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## Damfino

Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, and rabies are all viruses and the vaccines for them are extremely effective and haven't had to be changed constantly to keep up with mutations. The smallpox virus was eliminated through vaccines. Saying "It's a virus so it will mutate," is not exactly accurate. Some viruses are quite stable and others are not. "Experts" stated early on that the Covid virus is relatively stable (certainly more stable than the flu), which made vaccination a strong possibility. Unfortunately it is less stable than originally purported so the vaccines (and prior infection) are less effective than originally hoped. I have been very irritated by the narrative that infection can't provide immunity but vaccination can. If reinfection was a strong possibility from the outset, it didn't bode well for the vaccines. I'm not impressed by vaccines that have to be boosted every six months to be effective. 

Tanya, I'm not surprised that your "long Covid" symptoms improved after vaccination. A lot of people have had that experience (including one of my own friends), and it's wonderful. I'm very happy for you! I hope this is exactly the "kick in the pants" your immune system needed. I may not personally be all that impressed with the vaccines' performance (perhaps because they were so over-hyped), but I'm very glad they are helping a lot of people avoid serious illness and recover from long-term symptoms. I just wish the issue weren't so political on both sides. I still fully support those who choose to take the vaccine and those who choose not to.


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## Moers kiko boars

Ever heard of Shingles?😁😂


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Ever heard of Shingles?😁😂


Everyone has. Why is it funny and what does shingles have to do with anything?


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## DDFN

And today I had to take the battery off the charger for my father after seeing him try several times . I pushed with one thumb and the battery popped off the charger. Ever since his vaccines he has little use of his hands. Not much strength and can not close/grab things like before.


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## jschies

What about shingles...? Last year a lady from church was asking my thoughts about getting vaccinated. She wasn't sure because she got the shingles vaccine and has had shingles every 6 weeks since getting it. She had never had them before. I haven't heard anyone else say that about the shingles vaccine. I don't think she will every trust vaccines again. Have you heard stories like that Moers?


Moers kiko boars said:


> Ever heard of Shingles?😁😂


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## Cedarwinds Farm

I honestly don't care if people get vaccinated or not. I do object to pro-vax folks getting all self righteous about it. Same goes for those who are anti-vax. 
This is a screenshot of a CDC ad that popped up on my FB awhile ago. Thought it was insightful.


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## Tanya

Cedarwinds Farm said:


> I honestly don't care if people get vaccinated or not. I do object to pro-vax folks getting all self righteous about it. Same goes for those who are anti-vax.
> This is a screenshot of a CDC ad that popped up on my FB awhile ago. Thought it was insightful.
> View attachment 216235


I agree about how people try force their opinions on others being a pain. Its not right. God gave us the mental capacity for self choice and it should be respected. 
I only took the vaccine as a last measure before ending up in a wheel chair or worse bed ridden. It wasnt the perfect answer but it was the better answer. We are all here in my family divided but not one person is judged. I am no longer hacking, but just barking. My runny nose no longer needs long distance sneakers so I bought it Tommy's for short distance runs. I can sort of taste things now....


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## Goats Rock

Regarding Shingles- once you have the actual shingles, you are good, right? So no vaccine needed? 
It is a miserable disease- I had it 2 years ago- so I should be good for life- I hope! (Why do they call it shingles? 
it looks nothing like shingles on a roof!)


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## Mike at Capra Vista

*U.S. FDA says Merck COVID pill effective, experts will review safety*
Drug would be the first that U.S. patients could take at home to ease symptoms and speed recovery


Federal health regulators say an experimental COVID-19 pill from Merck is effective against the virus, but they will seek input from outside experts on risks of birth defects and other potential problems during pregnancy.

The Food and Drug Administration posted its analysis of the pill ahead of a public meeting next week where academic and other experts will weigh in on its safety and effectiveness. The agency isn’t required to follow the group’s advice.

The FDA scientists said their review identified several potential risks, including possible toxicity to developing fetuses and birth defects that were identified in studies of the pill in animals.

Additionally, the FDA flagged a concern that Merck’s drug led to small changes in the coronavirus’ signature spike protein, which it uses to penetrate human cells. Theoretically, FDA cautioned, those changes could lead to dangerous new variants. 

Merck’s drug uses a novel approach to fight COVID-19: it inserts tiny mutations into the coronavirus’ genetic code to stop the virus from reproducing. 

Among more than 1,400 adults in a company study, molnupiravir reduced the combined risk of hospitalization and death by 30%, less than the 50% initially reported based on incomplete results.

Nearly 7% of patients who received Merck’s drug within five days of COVID-19 symptoms ended up in the hospital and one died. That compared to 10% of patients hospitalized who were taking the placebo and nine deaths.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Tanya said:


> Oh Crikey. SOUTH AFRICA have a new varient which will get a greek name soon..... and there goes our lockdown freedome... and I start a new job next week.... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH


"The new variant, deemed *Omicron*, first emerged in South Africa and coincided with a steep rise in the number of COVID-19 cases in that region in recent weeks, according to the World Health Organization. "

"Canada has banned visitors from southern Africa after the discovery of a new variant of concern in the region. "

Hope all goes well for you, Tanya.


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## Tanya

Yeah. The UK and Germany have banned us too


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## Mike at Capra Vista

So I had to look this up.....

Omicron (uppercase: Ο, lowercase: ο) is the 15th letter of the Greek alphabet. It literally means 'small o' (micron meaning 'small' )

Omega (uppercase: Ω, lowercase: ω) is the last (24th) letter in the Greek alphabet. It literally means "great O" (mega meaning "great")


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## Buck Naked Boers

I agree with you Tanya. We don’t judge others in our home/extended family either. If you get the jab great for you and if not great for you. Who should care? It’s a free world we live in. Or it’s supposed to be.


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## Moers kiko boars

A little lesson on Shingles. This wonderful little problem is from when you were a child,exposed to Chicken pox
Wether you were vaccinated or not, it hides in your kidneys, useing you as a host. Then due to stress, or chemical changes in the human bio system it comes out once again as shingles..
Its a mutated form of chicken pox that has survived every vaccine & medication you have recieved. 
Vaccine only feeds it. Just some fyi!


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## alwaystj9

The shingles vaccine did make me feel really bad for about 36 hours but no other after effects since...
I got it because I only had about 12 chicken pox when I had that as a kid (no vaccine available then) so I doubted that was a bad enough case to give me immunity. I have also transported 2 shingles cases to the ER from work and saw how much pain and misery they were in. One was a friend and she still has occasional flare ups.
I get every vaccine I can get. Whatever I can do to stay healthier. I was a single mom of 3 and there was no one else to take care of things.
I was also an EMT basic for 25 years, some with the local FD and mostly at work on emergency teams.
I have had covid 2X followed by both shots and a booster last month.
The first Covid I almost called 911 for myself. I was rolling on the floor holding my sides praying that God would stop me from coughing. 
I gave up coffee for months because it tasted like weird butterscotch. I also finally quit smoking.
Got over that, then got it again 3 months later but not as bad.
But it turned into bronchitis and since I have to wear an air pack at work, didn't go back to work for about 45 days.
I got the shots because I don't ever want this again. Or at least I want it as mild as possible. And I got a booster and a flu shot.
Each shot made me sick as heck for about 24 hours, like a mini case of covid but no other aftereffects.
I am also the meanest, horriblest sick person ever so I am trying to spare others.
No judging, just saying what my experience was/is.


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## DDFN

Moers kiko boars said:


> A little lesson on Shingles. This wonderful little problem is from when you were a child,exposed to Chicken pox
> Wether you were vaccinated or not, it hides in your kidneys, useing you as a host. Then due to stress, or chemical changes in the human bio system it comes out once again as shingles..
> Its a mutated form of chicken pox that has survived every vaccine & medication you have recieved.
> Vaccine only feeds it. Just some fyi!


Just to add also if someone had chicken poxs already then is exposed to another case of chicken poxs later in life you can get shingles from that exposure.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> A little lesson on Shingles. This wonderful little problem is from when you were a child,exposed to Chicken pox
> Wether you were vaccinated or not, it hides in your kidneys, useing you as a host. Then due to stress, or chemical changes in the human bio system it comes out once again as shingles..
> Its a mutated form of chicken pox that has survived every vaccine & medication you have recieved.
> Vaccine only feeds it. Just some fyi!


Yes, I already know how shingles works, but I don't understand your point. I have serious doubts about the validity of your claims about the vaccines against chickenpox and shingles. The chickenpox vaccine is still fairly new--new enough that the kids who got it won't experience shingles for decades, (and hopefully they never will). Those of us who went through chickenpox as kids will of course be at risk of developing shingles later on. Hopefully the shingles vaccine is pretty good because after watching my dad and a few other folks go through shingles, I will probably get the vaccine someday when I'm old enough. I had chicken pox as a kid of course (who didn't?). My dad sure wished he'd known about the shingles vaccine! He came down with shingles in 2017 and never completely got over it till the day he died (which was 3 years later).


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm

Damfino said:


> Yes, I already know how shingles works, but I don't understand your point. I have serious doubts about the validity of your claims about the vaccines against chickenpox and shingles. The chickenpox vaccine is still fairly new--new enough that the kids who got it won't experience shingles for decade, (and hopefully they never will). Those of us who went through chickenpox as kids will of course be at risk of developing shingles later on. Hopefully the shingles vaccine is pretty good because after watching my dad and a few other folks go through shingles, I will probably get the vaccine someday when I'm old enough. I had chicken pox as a kid of course (who didn't?). My dad sure wished he'd known about the shingles vaccine! He came down with shingles in 2017 and never completely got over it till the day he died (which was 3 years later).


Just anecdotal evidence: my cousin, who I'm fairly sure was vaccinated for chicken pox, got shingles in her 20s. So it can happen.
I also got chicken pox this year, and it was not fun. So that's one vaccine I do recommend for adults who haven't been vaxxed or gotten it as kids.


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## Damfino

I know a lady who had chickenpox as a kid who developed shingles in her 30's (this happened like 20 years ago before vaccines for either one were available), but that's pretty rare. I'm sure the same thing can happen to anyone whether they experienced chickenpox or got the vaccine for it, but it's not a normal phenomenon.


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## toth boer goats

Yep, shingles can happen, but yes is rare.


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## Boers4ever

My brother was fully vaccinated for chickenpox and he got it. But he never got the shingles vax and ending up getting it in his mid 20s. Weird.


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## toth boer goats

That is weird.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Omicron variant

According to S. African doctor, the symptoms are unusual but mild. Mostly just feeling tired.
In S. Africa, cases have gone up from about 550 a day to almost 4,000 a day over the last week.

Outside southern Africa, Omicron has now been detected in the UK, Israel, the Netherlands, Hong Kong and Belgium.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## goathiker

Regarding the chicken pox vaccine, my son got his more than 20 years ago so, it's not that new. 
I've had chicken pox, very mildly, 4 times as a child. I have never had any other problems with shingles. I think it's because I've actually had my small pox vaccine lol. The old vaccines were better. 
Except polio. Polio fought back and became more virulent. My mother was working in a los angels hospital during the 50s and it was so hard on her my dad made her quit.
A decade before that was the tuberculosis outbreak. She spent several years living on a private island with her parents. 
There's more but, at 89 none of this is new to her, and while she has not been a practicing RN since the late 70's she still knows what she's looking at and I follow her advice. 
Now we have a new baby coming into the mess. A miracle child from an almost completely sterile father and it will be my responsibility to keep this precious grandbaby safe. 

I think that we're going to have to sell this house. I don't know what will happen from there. We're kinda looking at Iowa or Nebraska. Who knows? 
Whatever happens, I'll be alright one way or another.


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## ksalvagno

Glad you are doing ok and congratulations on a new grandbaby! I think you would be better off one of those states.


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## Tanya

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Omicron variant
> 
> According to S. African doctor, the symptoms are unusual but mild. Mostly just feeling tired.
> In S. Africa, cases have gone up from about 550 a day to almost 4,000 a day over the last week.
> 
> Outside southern Africa, Omicron has now been detected in the UK, Israel, the Netherlands, Hong Kong and Belgium.


Which doctor? 4000? Thats news to us? And it was found that non of the patients in those countries with the new variant actually travelled outside of their own countries.
Our gov is fighting the travel bans because the variant was actually found in Scotland before it was found in South Africa


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## Mike at Capra Vista

*South African doctor who raised alarm about omicron variant says symptoms are ‘unusual but mild’ *
 By Peta Thornycroft  in Johannesburg and  Will Brown  in Nairobi 27 November 2021 • 2:47pm 

Dr Angelique Coetzee noticed otherwise healthy patients showing unusual symptoms and worries how the new variant might hurt the elderly

The first South African doctor to alert the authorities about patients with the omicron variant has told The Telegraph that the symptoms of the new variant are unusual but mild.

Dr Angelique Coetzee said she was first alerted to the possibility of a new variant when patients in her busy private practice in the capital Pretoria started to come in earlier this month with Covid-19 symptoms that did not make immediate sense.

They included young people of different backgrounds and ethnicities with intense fatigue and a six-year-old child with a very high pulse rate, she said. None suffered from a loss of taste or smell.

“Their symptoms were so different and so mild from those I had treated before,” said Dr Coetzee, a GP for 33 years who chairs the South African Medical Association alongside running her practice.

On November 18, when four family members all tested positive for Covid-19 with complete exhaustion, she informed the country’s vaccine advisory committee.

She said, in total, about two dozen of her patients have tested positive for Covid-19 with symptoms of the new variant. They were mostly healthy men who turned up “feeling so tired”. About half of them were unvaccinated.

“We had one very interesting case, a kid, about six years old, with a temperature and a very high pulse rate, and I wondered if I should admit her. But when I followed up two days later, she was so much better,” Dr Coetzee says.

Dr Coetzee, who was briefing other African medical associations on Saturday, made clear her patients were all healthy and she was worried the new variant could still hit older people – with co-morbidities such as diabetes or heart disease – much harder.

“What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said.

South African demographics are very different from those in the UK. Only about six per cent of the population are over the age of 65. This means that older individuals who are more vulnerable to the virus may take some time to present.

*Two cases of omicron in UK*

The B.1.1.529 variant, now called omicron, was first identified in Botswana on November 11. It has now been detected in the UK as well as South Africa, Israel, the Netherlands, Hong Kong and Belgium.

It is the most mutated form of Covid-19 discovered thus far, with 32 mutations to the spike protein. Scientists are concerned that the mutations may allow it to evade existing vaccines and spread quickly.

Two cases of omicron have now been found in the UK, with two people in Essex and Nottinghamshire testing positive for the new variant. 

UK officials are busy scouring testing databases for any further sign of the omicron variant, not least because there were many South Africans in the Twickenham area of south-west London for the England and South Africa match last Saturday.

South African scientists say omicron is behind an explosion of cases in the country’s Gauteng province, which is home to the country’s commercial capital Johannesburg and Pretoria. Cases have rocketed up from about 550 a day last week to almost 4,000 a day currently.

The UK, US, the EU and Israel have all suspended travel to and from South Africa and the five surrounding countries: Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, and Zimbabwe. The UK Government added Angola, Malawi, Mozambique and Zambia to the travel red list on Sunday. 

The Western travel ban has provoked anger among South Africans, with many claiming that they are being punished for having outstanding research institutions and being transparent about their findings.


----------



## Tanya

🤦‍♀️


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Travel bans don't do much except maybe slow the spread a bit. There are so many travel exceptions and exemptions. It is like keeping rain out by closing a screen door.

Omicron is already all over Canada.


----------



## DDFN

And let's welcome omicron to California. They just announced on the radio on my drive home the first identified omicron case today in California.


----------



## luvmyherd

Yep! I heard that. Think I will be getting my booster in a few weeks.


----------



## DDFN

luvmyherd said:


> Yep! I heard that. Think I will be getting my booster in a few weeks.


Best wishes and be safe. I think they said it. Was southern California but it may make it north faster than traveling east . You never know these days .


----------



## Tanya

🤦‍♀️


----------



## toth boer goats

I won’t get a vaccine at all for it, not worth it. 
Especially if people who already had the vaccine ends up getting each variant they come up with.


----------



## Tanya




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## Damfino

I heard a funny one recently from a highly vaccine-resistant older lady I know: 
"I don't care if I _die_ of Covid--I'm not getting the vaccine!" 

I puzzled over that one. Dead is dead, so if you don't care about dying of Covid, why would you care about dying of the vaccine? 

She ended up getting vaccinated recently anyway. My husband is playing music in several nursing homes this Christmas season and she really wants to accompany him (she basically lives for music), but nursing homes are requiring all visitors to be vaccinated (understandable considering the vulnerability of the population). She particularly didn't want to miss playing music at the veterans' nursing home, so she took one for the vets and got her shot. I guess she figured if they could risk their lives for their country she could risk her life to make them happy in their twilight years. So far she has not suffered any ill-effects from the vaccine.


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## Moers kiko boars

Thats supposed to be the Great part of being American. To refuse a mandate. Freedom ! All people are doing is giving the Gov. Complete control. I guess people dont understand the difference in a mandate and a law? If your vaccinated why get boosters? Why are vacinated getting sick? Which strain are you vacinnated for? Where does the vaccine harbor in your body? What is it doing to those organs?
Just some questions to ask your Dr.


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## FizzyGoats

Damfino said:


> My husband is playing music in several nursing homes this Christmas season and she really wants to accompany him (she basically lives for music), but nursing homes are requiring all visitors to be vaccinated (understandable considering the vulnerability of the population).


I wanted to pop in to say I love that your husband goes to nursing homes and plays music for the holidays. That’s really sweet.


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## luvmyherd

Damfino said:


> I heard a funny one recently from a highly vaccine-resistant older lady I know:
> "I don't care if I _die_ of Covid--I'm not getting the vaccine!"
> 
> I puzzled over that one. Dead is dead, so if you don't care about dying of Covid, why would you care about dying of the vaccine?
> 
> She ended up getting vaccinated recently anyway. My husband is playing music in several nursing homes this Christmas season and she really wants to accompany him (she basically lives for music), but nursing homes are requiring all visitors to be vaccinated (understandable considering the vulnerability of the population). She particularly didn't want to miss playing music at the veterans' nursing home, so she took one for the vets and got her shot. I guess she figured if they could risk their lives for their country she could risk her life to make them happy in their twilight years. So far she has not suffered any ill-effects from the vaccine.


Leave it to you to be the voice of reason.
As stated before; I do not approve of mandates. But we need to feel we can make our decisions free from ridicule. That is why I come here.


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## luvmyherd

FizzyGoats said:


> I wanted to pop in to say I love that your husband goes to nursing homes and plays music for the holidays. That’s really sweet.


So true. My father so wanted to be a professional musician. He ended up a school teacher (you know, to pay the bills). In his retirement he spent much of his time bringing music to people in need.


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## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> Thats supposed to be the Great part of being American. To refuse a mandate. Freedom ! All people are doingnimm is giving Gov. Complete control. I guess people dont understand the difference in a mandate and a law? If your vaccinated why get boosters? Why are vacinated getting sick? Which strain are you vacinnated for? Where does the vaccine harbor in your body? What is it doing to those organs?
> Just some questions to ask your Dr.


I am very much opposed to government-imposed mandates on free citizens (in other words, those who don't work for the government or military--I do not consider them "free" since they chose to sign a contract with "the devil" and if they don't like the government's requirements they don't have to work for it), but I have no problem with private businesses setting the parameters of what they require for their employees and customers. If a private hospital, nursing home, restaurant, or any other private business decides to require vaccination for its employees and even customers, it's their right to decide who gets to be on their property. I believe strongly in the "right to refuse service" (which unfortunately is not well-respected in this country). I don't believe the government has any right to force private citizens to get vaccinated or force private businesses to require vaccination for their employees or customers. I think all should be free to choose.


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## Damfino

FizzyGoats said:


> I wanted to pop in to say I love that your husband goes to nursing homes and plays music for the holidays. That’s really sweet.


I usually accompany him but I refuse to disclose my vaccination status, so no nursing home visits for me this year.


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## goathiker

@Tanya 
Just let the theories go. The American government has decided that the omicron and other variables are incubated in untreated HIV patients. They should be able to get the proper drugs out with some pushing from citizens.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Interesting Jill that they think that now about omnicron. I hadn’t heard that. 

Theories aside…

I honestly don’t think our government(state or federal) has any idea how to stop the virus. It’s a virus for goodness sake! 

This guy who presented last month In our county commissioner mtg really had no good answer to our commissioner’s questions after his presentation.

We at our house love our county commissioner, Tootie Smith. Listen to what she says at 9:46 after the presentation about the vaccination rate in Oregon. It’s worth listening to. I’m glad questions are being asked like this. 






It’s about time someone starts asking questions like this.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Second lady asks:
... those that have not received the booster are the ones getting sick...?

Reply:
... that's an area of concern. Our data doesn't point to that exactly but ...


I would want to know: What does the data point to, exactly.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Lol. Good question!!


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## goathiker

People with compromised immune systems don't build immunity and harbor disease 🤦‍♀️ it isn't that difficult to figure out. 
I don't trust government officials that don't even say the pledge of allegiance correctly.


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## Damfino

I thought immune compromised people harbor disease because they don't build immunity. I believe it has been documented any number of times in immunocompromised individuals. For example, there was a man last year who was positive for Covid from April until he finally died in August, and during that time the coronavirus went through many mutations in order to survive all the ways medicine tried to save him. Without help from his own immune system to actually eradicate the virus, it simply gave the virus all the time it needed to become more efficient at evading treatments. There's a vast gray area between people so immunocompromised that they die right away and those whose robust immune systems efficiently clear the virus. It's these lingering in-between cases that give the virus its best chance to learn how to fight our modern medical defences.


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## Goats Rock

I just stay in my barn! Too busy to go anywhere- and now, I am afraid, after many years of being a hermit, actually, too busy to do any traveling- I probably would get a
common cold. I'm healthy- but since I'm never really around people, I probably am not resistant. I don't know....


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## DDFN

Damfino said:


> I thought immune compromised people harbor disease because they don't build immunity. I believe it has been documented any number of times in immunocompromised individuals. For example, there was a man last year who was positive for Covid from April until he finally died in August, and during that time the coronavirus went through many mutations in order to survive all the ways medicine tried to save him. Without help from his own immune system to actually eradicate the virus, it simply gave the virus all the time it needed to become more efficient at evading treatments. There's a vast gray area between people so immunocompromised that they die right away and those whose robust immune systems efficiently clear the virus. It's these lingering in-between cases that give the virus its best chance to learn how to fight our modern medical defences.


I remember that case ended up having I think it was 20 or 20 plus mutations of covid when he died. Very sad.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Our commissioner Tootie smith is a great person! She’s human too. Just like me and other imperfect humans. That’s what make people personable. We like her. I appreciate what she had to say! Just my perspective. don’t expect people to agree. As most of my state probably doesn’t agree with my perspective.no worries!

Goats rock:
I’m slot the same way. Very busy on the farm. I agree with you. I don’t go out tons. But enough I guess to run errands.


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## Tanya

@Goats Rock 

I dont know. Remember when the English landed amongst the Indians Small Pox anyalated many tribes. Because their bodies were not exposed. I would be careful


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## Mike at Capra Vista

This story just struck my funny bone....

A 50-year-old medical worker tried to pass off a silicone arm as his own at a COVID-19 vaccination clinic in northern Italy, in an attempt to get a vaccine certificate without actually getting inoculated.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> This story just struck my funny bone....
> 
> A 50-year-old medical worker tried to pass off a silicone arm as his own at a COVID-19 vaccination clinic in northern Italy, in an attempt to get a vaccine certificate without actually getting inoculated.


Wait what? Humm for those normal individuals exposed to all the radiation in our area it's just normal to have 3 arms. . . . Nope not even here. Did he actually think he could pass it as his own and did he wear really big clothes to hide his other arm?


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## toth boer goats

Oh wow 😮😆


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Latest about Omicron:

Pretty much spread everywhere.
Very transmissible - cases doubling every 2 days or so.
Shorter incubation period.
Expected to be dominant variant in a matter of weeks.
Symptoms very minor and different - so far.
Majority of omicron hospitalizations are incidental. That is, patient went to hospital for other reason and routine testing showed omicron.


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## littleheathens

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Latest about Omicron:
> 
> Pretty much spread everywhere.
> Very transmissible - cases doubling every 2 days or so.
> Shorter incubation period.
> Expected to be dominant variant in a matter of weeks.
> Symptoms very minor and different - so far.
> Majority of omicron hospitalizations are incidental. That is, patient went to hospital for other reason and routine testing showed omicron.


YAY! i like that synopsis! 

I'd like to add, this strain was actually discovered in the summer, just not sequenced or named or something...so, @Tanya, it's not your fault. ;-) 

Recently I came out of the closet about my family's unvaccinated status on a 500+ person permaculture list I moderate. We spent a couple of weeks in Belize in November, where people were so nice and welcoming to us, then we came back to this stupid, progressive county I live in and all the strict rules. I wanted those nice Belizeans back as my friends! Someone poked the bear on the email list and I leaped. Rather than a torrent of arguments, spewing propaganda, etc, as I expected, all that surfaced was one person saying I was careless to not believe in infectious disease and proven preventions. All the other responses were detailed, and varying scientific explanations on why not to vaccinate! Then I got several personal emails in support and discovered IRL support groups, lists, made new friends-- it's been GREAT. My kids are healing from all the losses they've suffered for being ostracized and treated as though they are stupid, selfish or toxic children. It feels so good to not be silent!


----------



## happybleats

Any other Covid survivors loosing a ton of hair? Both my sons, a family friend, my daughter and myself so far that we know of..loosing hair at a very rapid rate. I have always had super thick hair and now it's so thin can see my scalp! I guess high temps or prolong illness can cause temporary rapid hair shedding, faster than regrowth and can take 6 to 9 months to stop!! I will beed to buy wig by then!


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## Jessica84

OMG! My sister said that her hair was falling out awhile ago and she just found out it’s because of covid. I told her that really sucks I’m all good here. I am NOT telling her I jinxed myself but it is very sad when I take a shower and have to clean out all the hair I am loosing  I don’t have super thick hair so I’m a bit nervous about it all! I did pick up some hair skin and nail pills though and am hoping that helps. I used to take it very religiously a long time ago and it did help with thicker hair so I’m hoping it helps now


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## DDFN

They may end up losing teeth too. I heard around here not only loss of hair but teeth as well.


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## Damfino

Since Covid is more closely a cardiovascular disease than a respiratory one, things like hair loss (and tooth loss) make sense because those little blood vessels and capillaries aren't getting proper blood flow. 

The highly virulent but (so far) mild sickness associated with the Omicron variant is a hopeful sign that this is becoming endemic. It's something a lot of people predicted early on and I very much hope it turns out to be the case. Vaccination might be a decent stop-gap measure to protect the more vulnerable among us until the virus evolves into something more benign, but unfortunately the vaccines aren't effective enough to serve as any kind of long-term salvation for the planet that they've been touted as.


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## Jessica84

DDFN said:


> They may end up losing teeth too. I heard around here not only loss of hair but teeth as well.


Oh please don’t say that! I already need a long list of dental work needed I don’t need more issues when it comes to teeth


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## DDFN

Jessica84 said:


> Oh please don’t say that! I already need a long list of dental work needed I don’t need more issues when it comes to teeth


Sorry, one of my coworker adult children already lost some and the dentist said they have been seeing many post covid adults with damaged teeth.


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## happybleats

DDFN said:


> Sorry, one of my coworker adult children already lost some and the dentist said they have been seeing many post covid adults with damaged teeth.



Oh great. Bald and toothless....I'll be a dream boat 🙄


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## DDFN

Well it doesn't happen to everyone. Fingers crossed. There may be a covid choir singing "All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth" but hopefully you won't be in the choir.


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## toth boer goats

Oh my, well this is unnerving, losing hair and teeth, so unfair to go through that too.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

A couple of things I found about hair loss:

There’s no evidence yet that the novel coronavirus itself directly causes hair loss. Instead, doctors believe that the physical and emotional stress that accompanies a case of COVID-19 can lead to a reversible hair loss condition called telogen effluvium.

Hair loss ranked 21 on a list of 101 reported COVID-19 symptoms in one survey. "To put this into perspective, hair loss was reported more frequently than nausea or vomiting, tachycardia (a fast heart rate) and sore throat," Lambert says. The hair loss usually occurs weeks or months after a person has had the virus.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Here are a few speculations about the cause of tooth loss I came across:

Dentists have seen a surge in patients with cracked or damaged teeth over the course of the pandemic, a phenomenon some believe may be related to an increase in jaw clenching and grinding *due to stress*.

According to Li, the coronavirus causes serious damage when binding to the ACE2 protein, which is located in most parts of the body, including the mouth. Therefore, it could be possible that the virus has *damaged blood vessels in the mouth *that keep teeth alive, Li says. This can cause teeth to fall out without any blood or pain, which is what most long-haulers are reporting.

"If a COVID long-hauler's reaction is in the mouth, it's a defense mechanism against the virus. Gum disease is very sensitive to *hyper-inflammatory reactions*, and COVID long-haulers certainly fall into that category," he said. According to Medline Plus, inflammation can spread to the "ligaments and bone that support the teeth," resulting in a loss of support for the teeth, which causes teeth to become loose and eventually fall out—meaning months after a viral infection.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Then I listened to an interview with a guy who wrote Who’s the Real Anthony Fauci?

It was, well, disturbing.

Here is just one quote:
“Tony Fauci was able to choose, to designate, four of his high-level employees who each get individual patent shares,” Kennedy explained. “They will collect $150,000 a year for life if the Moderna vaccine is approved, which it has been.”3 Fauci’s agency, the NIAID, in particular, no longer looks out for public health — and Fauci doesn’t either; his priority is pharmaceutical promotion.


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## alwaystj9

I'm not losing hair and teeth (yet) but I have an unquenchable sweet tooth now. 
I was always one for salty snacks, couldn't even eat a whole candy bar. Now I am a chocoholic and put sugar in my coffee.


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## Goats Rock

I have dentures! Root canals never worked.. I had perfect white teeth, until my last child, 30 years ago. Apparently, he sucked all my calcium out! 
And, I ate ice cubes! So, cracked enamel, soft teeth resulted in numerous root canals that didn't work. So, I said pull em- bad move! Anyway- if I
I am unfortunate enough to catch Covid, at least I won't have to worry about the tooth loss! Hair loss- I'll try goat remedies! (or not....)


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## happybleats

@Mike at Capra Vista ..thank you for that info. Never shocks me when I hear money over people's health. Sickening.




alwaystj9 said:


> I'm not losing hair and teeth (yet) but I have an unquenchable sweet tooth now.
> I was always one for salty snacks, couldn't even eat a whole candy bar. Now I am a chocoholic and put sugar in my coffee.


I had covid in August and my hair started falling more rapid a few months after. No tooth loss yet🤞 but I too went from a Salty snacker to wanting sweets. With diabetes I can't do much about it lol


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Anyone not see this coming?

"Hot on the heels of selling three doses of the COVID-19 vaccine to basically every government on the planet, Pfizer's CEO is doubling down to announce the need for a fourth dose. "

Btw, I'm starting to really dislike the inappropriate overuse of the phrase "doubling down".


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

happybleats said:


> @Mike at Capra Vista ..thank you for that info. Never shocks me when I hear money over people's health. Sickening.


No, does not shock me either, which tells us something about the human condition.

As an aside, I wonder how many of us would make similar decisions under similar conditions. How many of us would risk the health of the public for $150,000 per year when there is no risk of repercussions? I do not know where I would stand if such an offer was truly in front of me.


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## Damfino

The thing that really irks me about all this is that it's becoming increasingly obvious that the first generation vaccines leave something to be desired. Even if they are largely safe, and even if they are somewhat effective, they aren't nearly effective _enough _and there is clearly a lot more work to be done. But instead of assuring us that they are working hard to improve the vaccines, they just keep telling everyone to get re-boosted again and again. Why? Because maybe it will work better this time? Look, if it doesn't work well the first 2-3 times, it's never going to work well a 4th, 5th or 6th time. Get back in the lab and make it better or even go back to the drawing board if you need to, but quit doubling down on boosters and quit acting like your mediocre vaccine has already reached the pinnacle of perfection! Sheesh!


----------



## littleheathens

I totally agree. People aren't seeing the forest through the trees. 

They've also invested everything in these vaccines and not nearly enough in treatments. We should have better, safer, more effective treatments by now! Instead any nontraditional or non-vaccine dependent drugs are removed from doctors' toolboxes, deemed dangerous or misinformation.

With homeschooling, i always said I could feed my kids better, teach them better, and socialize them better than our public schools. Until I found a school I thought could do as good, they stayed home. These shots are not safe enough, effective enough, nor tested enough. Not gonna do it. 

For the hair and teeth, you herbal wizards, do you have anything you wish you had taken or done differently to prevent loss? I know friends that really like the supplement blends Bone Strength and Blood Builder.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

I’m not a medical person….but….isn’t 
Covid is a coronavirus like a cousin to the common cold? Or that’s what I understand. Maybe I’m wrong. I realize it’s wayyyy worse than the common cold. I understand that. But until now they’ve never made a vaccine for a coronavirus have they??
So it seems like a a futile attempt to me. But I’m not a medical person. =)


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## ksalvagno

Coronavirus has never been isolated to make a vaccine. Not even for "covid."


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Yes Karen I agree! The vaccine they are trying to make doesn’t appear to be working too well. I know people who are or have been sick with Covid post vaccine.


----------



## littleheathens

Right. But these old white guys have tried so long- since the 70's- to do this and there was SO much money at stake... Operation Warped Speed rushed the process and trials. 
An interview with an outspoken and highly censored physician explains his experience with this (and other) shots/vaccines- "This Interview Could Save Your Life" Part Two: The Dangers of the Injections | Episode #20

Straight from a .gov site: *Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States*


----------



## happybleats

My SIL has covid right now and he was vaccinated. He and my daughter got pretty sick. They did the antibody infusion to help them recover faster. Both lost taste and smell. Several hours after the antibody treatment my daughter said her taste started to return and she actually wanted to eat something.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

I just read that in the Waterloo, Ontario, Canada area, 86 stillbirths have occurred from January to July this year and all to fully vaxxed mothers.

The normal rate is roughly one stillbirth every two months. 

I'll be the first to point out that a correlation does not prove causation. But this, if true, is certainly cause for concern and further investigation.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Wow Cathy sorry to hear they are sick. that sounds like a good treatment. I hope your daughter and son in law recover quickly!

Mike that’s awful if it’s proved to be true I can’t imagine people will allow all this to continue. They are lying about side effects if that’s true.


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## happybleats

That is scary @Mike at Capra Vista . Definitely need more study!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Then ....

Vancouver Coastal Health dismissed disinformation suggesting a spike in stillbirths among mothers who have received the COVID-19 vaccine.

"There is no truth to this claim and the individuals spreading this false information have no affiliation to either LGH or VCH. There has been no notable change to the incidence of stillbirths in the VCH region throughout the COVID-19 pandemic," the health authority said.

Several scientific studies have shown that COVID-19 vaccines do not increase the risk of stillbirths or miscarriage.


The truth seems very illusive these days.

.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Well at some point if this IS happening, people, in this case moms, will stand up against false reports and say this happened to me! If it’s happening people should stand up against the rhetoric. At some point enough will be enough and people will start pushing back against the false reporting….


----------



## Moers kiko boars

And now they want to vaccinate your children? Hmmmmmmm.


----------



## happybleats

Of course they will say it's not true,, even if it is. Either way, true or not..more study on long term effects is needed. People do need to demand it.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Just to round out the information .....

A new study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found that pregnant individuals with COVID-19 had a higher risk of stillbirth compared to those without COVID-19.

A new study found that the risk of stillbirth is higher among pregnant people with COVID-19 than pregnant people without COVID-19.
COVID-19 during pregnancy also increases the risk of preterm birth and pregnancy complications.
There have been no safety concerns associated with COVID-19 vaccination during pregnancy, and experts say the benefit of getting vaccinated outweighs the risks.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Moers: I think that’s crazy. I agree. 
Cathy: I agree more studies need to be done. But would they report the results if they didn’t agree with their narrative? I hope so….
Mike: interesting info. Hope they are being truthful tho. I don’t have a lot of faith these days in the CDC or the NIH or the WHO….that’s probably just me tho. And that’s ok!


----------



## Jessica84

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Moers: I think that’s crazy. I agree.
> Cathy: I agree more studies need to be done. But would they report the results if they didn’t agree with their narrative? I hope so….
> Mike: interesting info. Hope they are being truthful tho. I don’t have a lot of faith these days in the CDC or the NIH or the WHO….that’s probably just me tho. And that’s ok!


I don’t any more either. There’s been too much back and forth and changing their mind on what is what.
On a good note, for me anyways, seems our California governor is back peddling a little on the vaccine mandate for the kids. He will never admit that he was wrong in trying to make the mandate but admitted that personal belief exemption gives plenty of latitude for families to choose. So fingers crossed on that! I’m sure it will end up being the same for the unvaccinated kids as it is for state employees and have to be tested weekly. Not like my husband has been tested once though lol but as much as I am not a fan of weekly testing I’ll take that over being forced to vaccinate my kid or have to jerk him out. So I’ll respect that if that’s what they do


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

I really need to climb out of this rabbit hole ....


Reporter describes the ritual humiliation of German schoolchildren who are asked to go to the front of the class and state their vaccination status every day - only those who are vaccinated are applauded (and homeschooling is illegal in Germany)

Children in Germany are put through the ritual humiliation of going to the front of their classroom and stating their vaccination status.

The vaccinated are applauded.

The unvaccinated have to explain why they haven’t taken the jab.

.


----------



## Goats Rock

I'm still on the fence~ do I get the jab or not. Aghhh~


----------



## ksalvagno

Since getting the jab, my uncle has had 2 stents, a heart valve replacement and a stroke. My friend's liver enzymes have gone above normal from blood work. My friend's daughter is having much heavier periods and much more pain. My mom's blood pressure went up enough that her meds had to be adjusted. Another friend with arthritis who had pain under control is now in severe pain and finding no relief. So not everyone is lucky to have no adverse advents.


----------



## Dandy Hill Farm

I personally and honestly see absolutely no good reason why anyone should get the vaccine. So many people that have gotten "the jab" are having tons of health problems (as mentioned), but of course the that info isn't on the mainstream media. Vaccinated people are also still getting covid and sadly, some have even died from the vaccine it's self and not the actual virus. I see no reason why we should be injecting our healthy bodies with something that isn't safe and is causing lots of side affects. Now a days, the government doesn't really seem to care about any one's health, IMHO, they just want more and more control which is so sad to me. Again, this all just my opinion, but my family is not at all for this "vaccine". Funfact: Did you know they keep changing the definitions of vaccine and vaccinated? The CDC Suddenly Changes the Definition of ‘Vaccine’ and ‘Vaccination’ | Citizens Journal


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I really need to climb out of this rabbit hole ....
> 
> 
> Reporter describes the ritual humiliation of German schoolchildren who are asked to go to the front of the class and state their vaccination status every day - only those who are vaccinated are applauded (and homeschooling is illegal in Germany)
> 
> Children in Germany are put through the ritual humiliation of going to the front of their classroom and stating their vaccination status.
> 
> The vaccinated are applauded.
> 
> The unvaccinated have to explain why they haven’t taken the jab.
> 
> .


Wow Mike! That’s just crazy. And that’s not ok. I can’t believe with Germany’s history that the Germans aren’t pushing back yet on this stuff. They must forget their country’s past….which is incredibly sad!


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Jessica84 said:


> I don’t any more either. There’s been too much back and forth and changing their mind on what is what.
> On a good note, for me anyways, seems our California governor is back peddling a little on the vaccine mandate for the kids. He will never admit that he was wrong in trying to make the mandate but admitted that personal belief exemption gives plenty of latitude for families to choose. So fingers crossed on that! I’m sure it will end up being the same for the unvaccinated kids as it is for state employees and have to be tested weekly. Not like my husband has been tested once though lol but as much as I am not a fan of weekly testing I’ll take that over being forced to vaccinate my kid or have to jerk him out. So I’ll respect that if that’s what they do



You’re right jessica. That seems like some progress in California regarding vaccine mandates. Oregon I don’t think is far behind California I think your governor is our governor browns idol. She’s got very low approval ratings from most in our state. I’m looking forward to the governor race in the near future!


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## Buck Naked Boers

ksalvagno said:


> Since getting the jab, my uncle has had 2 stents, a heart valve replacement and a stroke. My friend's liver enzymes have gone above normal from blood work. My friend's daughter is having much heavier periods and much more pain. My mom's blood pressure went up enough that her meds had to be adjusted. Another friend with arthritis who had pain under control is now in severe pain and finding no relief. So not everyone is lucky to have no adverse advents.


Karen, that’s awful!! So many people going through health issues connected to the vaccine!
I have a friend who’s husband is a pharmacist. He stated recently that he will not ever get the vaccine. He called it poison. He’s been a pharmacist for a long time…..


----------



## Tanya

German history only shows decades of decradation of humns. If you are not this way then you dont belong. It is their mentality it is sad. But judging is not for us to do.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Wow Mike! That’s just crazy. And that’s not ok. I can’t believe with Germany’s history that the Germans aren’t pushing back yet on this stuff. They must forget their country’s past….which is incredibly sad!


To be fair, it was not clear whether this was country wide or just one school, but this kind of shaming is reprehensible regardless. You are not the only one to make the comparison to Germany's past.


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## Damfino

Kids have no control over what their parents decide for them so there's no point in adults shaming them over whether or not they are vaccinated. But I'm curious if they're actually being shamed, or shame is simply the assumption? Because whether or not they are ashamed depends on how they are being treated, not on whether they are being separated. People can be separated out for different treatment without that treatment being shameful or bad, and we need to get over the "perpetual victimhood" idea that being treated differently always carries some connotation of inequality or shame. I treat my wethers differently than I treat my does because they have different health needs--not because I think they are unequal or undeserving. There's nothing inherently wrong with going to the front of a classroom unless the teacher makes the kids feel ashamed in the process. It could just as easily become a point of pride in some classrooms, which is a different moral issue in itself. I guess it all goes back to the ancient fact that human beings are flawed and we'll turn anything into a cause for shame or pride. Walking the humble tightrope between is extremely difficult, particularly in a day and age where all activity is sensationalized even if its intention (or even its actual implementation!) is in fact benign.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I agree with what you said damfino. 

Maybe there is shaming going on to those who are vaccinated as well but I haven’t seen that at all. The shaming seems very one sided towards the unvaccinated, in the media and in our world in general. At least where I live that’s how it is…

A member of my family was questioned publicly if they were vaccinated then publicly shamed in front of others for not being vaccinated (professional work place). I have only seen the shaming or putting down or whatever we want to call it…done to those who are not vaccinated. 

We live in a free society as of today, and we should have the ability to choose regarding vaccination. Then,once we’ve chosen, we should not be questioned or challenged in anyway in our decision. But that’s not happening.


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## Damfino

I haven't seen "shaming" of anyone over their vaccination status one way or the other, but I sure have seen a lot of fear and fear-mongering over the vaccine, in some cases to an almost obscene level. We had people in our church who were treating vaccinated people like lepers and sending round propaganda to that effect. I've also seen some pomposity from people maintaining a "vaccine-free" status. It's almost an attitude of, "Well *I* haven't been duped!" (Which is indistinguishable from calling vaccinated people gullible morons.) Is that shaming? I'm not sure, but it certainly has become a point of pride for some folks. 

It's all a little ridiculous if you ask me. I think there is a lot to be cautious about on both sides of the vaccination issue and no room for judgment on either side. This is why I have taken a "prefer not to say" stance on the issue. I know too many judgemental people on both sides.


----------



## happybleats

I think, simply put..while imo, there is still not enough study on the vaccine, it's effectiveness and safety, it is still each of our own right to choose. Vax or don't. It's up to each of us. To make a big deal of either just fuels the issue over the line of ridiculous.


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## Jessica84

happybleats said:


> I think, simply put..while imo, there is still not enough study on the vaccine, it's effectiveness and safety, it is still each of our own right to choose. Vax or don't. It's up to each of us. To make a big deal of either just fuels the issue over the line of ridiculous.


BINGO!!!! We all do what we thing is right for us and ours. This whole situation is kinda danger if you do and danged if you don’t. My brother, sister in law, and one of my best friends are vaccinated. Their choice. They chose it because they thought it was best for them and their family. My brother and sister in law were kinda pushy about trying to get the rest of the family vaccinated but other then that we all were fairly respectful of each other. I don’t trust the vaccine one bit but I would never shame anyone for getting it


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## Buck Naked Boers

Completely agree damfino, Cathy and Jessica. 

Damfino you may not be experiencing shaming. My family member was shamed tho as stated above. The person who shamed my family member was a superior and did so in front of several people. Really going after my family member verbally. That’s not ok. Then the superior said they were making it their ‘mission’ to make sure as many people got vaccinated as possible.
Like Cathy said it’s up to each of us to choose. And we should respect all peoples choices….
My family does that. We don’t care if people are vaccinated. That’s their choice. And those who choose not to vaccinate have a right to do that too. 
We all agree here on this subject matter which is refreshing.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## FizzyGoats

So I too have been in the “it’s your choice” camp for quite some time. I don’t think many (if any) here agree with shaming no matter which side of the issue you lean toward. I think people in general feel that way but then I get on social media or see ads on tv and see that shaming is still used as a tried and true method. Do you ever have moments where you wonder if you’ve over estimated humanity? I have those. Then I’ll see a kind or selfless act and wonder if I underestimate goodness. 

I’m just catching up here and a few pages back there were some posts talking about COVID survivors losing hair and teeth. Yikes. I haven’t lost any teeth or extra hair that I know of (I shed like a dog though, so it might be hard to tell). My son who also had it hasn’t lost teeth or hair either. I wonder if it’s connected to how severe the illness was. We were both useless a few days, very slow for a few more, then functioning at about 1/2 speed to round out the week. So we weren’t off our feet for more than a few days. I’m curious, for those who have had it or know someone who did, how long were you down and did you have any of the hair/teeth loss?


----------



## littleheathens

I'm so glad to see many of you are not experiencing shaming. It's really bad in my ("progressive") community, but it's the more often passive, discriminatory kind. We've been uninvited to friends' parties for not being vaccinated, friends' told us they won't go on traditional trips our families have done together for years- that sort. They say their kids can't socialize indoors with my kids and they've stopped communicating with us. What's f'ed up is they say this so candidly and easily, as though they aren't saying anything at all unusual or hurtful. There's also verbal ridiculing by all sorts- it's a constant barrage. My medical freedom support groups help A LOT.


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## happybleats

FizzyGoats said:


> I’m curious, for those who have had it or know someone who did, how long were you down and did you have any of the hair/teeth loss?


I had covid bad enough for a 14 day stay in the hospital. My hair is so thin it can't hardly be styled to anything nice. My 33 yr old son had it pretty bad too and is now loosing hair. And a family friend..same. but we have out teeth so far 😬.


----------



## happybleats

littleheathens said:


> I'm so glad to see many of you are not experiencing shaming. It's really bad in my ("progressive") community, but it's the more often passive,


I'm sorry you're experiencing this. The fear being pushed has people acting uncharacteristic. Hold your ground and know this too will pass and friends will wake up. And hold dear the ones that stick by your side and support your choice.


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## Jessica84

I spent 1 day in bed and forced it. Even then that day and every day I did my absolutely need to do chores. It was like a really bad cold that just wouldn’t go away for probably 10 days. I was weak and easily out of breath for quite awhile after, but the weakness very possibly might have been from not doing much for 10 days.
Loosing hair. Just came out of the blue months later. At first I thought it was because my hair was getting long. When it gets long it does thin out but this has been the fastest it has ever thinned out. I think I’m going to cut my hair and see if that helps though.


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## toth boer goats

Amen to that. 🙏


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## happybleats

May seem strange to say..but I find comfort in knowing I'm not alone in the hair loss issue. Means it's not forever and will stop falling out and grow back. My hair normally is so thick and full.


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## littleheathens

Thanks for your kindness, @happybleats! We get support in so many ways these days. 

The guy that cuts my boys hair said recently there are 3 times hair undergoes a lot of change- i think they were pregnancy, chemotherapy/illness, and puberty. And afterwards, it might grow back in a totally different texture, too. He has (very cute) curly hair and he said it was straight before he had a major surgery a few years ago. My friend with breast cancer/chemo went from straight to really curly also. Embrace hat season and look forward to whatever grows in!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Littleheathens: I’m wondering if we live in the same state. Lol. 
People can be so rude. I’m so sorry to hear you’ve gone through this. It’s great others aren’t experiencing this here but for those of us who have experienced it, it’s pretty sad. 

I’m not quite as optimistic as Cathy is. Although I do agree with her about holding our ground etc. My ‘progressive’ state has a agenda it seems like often. I’m hopeful we will return to normalcy but we still are required to wear masks (one of the few states left to do this) indoors. I only do that where required. And we all wonder when we will be like other states. 

Cathy I didn’t know you were in the Hosp! Wow I’m so glad you are recovering!! We just had a friend who was in Hosp go home.


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## Buck Naked Boers

On a side note….menopause appears to also thin your hair so beware those of you younger folk! Lol


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## Jessica84

Buck Naked Boers said:


> On a side note….menopause appears to also thin your hair so beware those of you younger folk! Lol


I might have hypothyroidism and that causes hair loss too. Which would make sense why my hair would fall out before but this is BAD lol I’m not bald or anything and if you had never met my you would think it was normal but it’s not for me. 
This is my hair brush that I cleaned out yesterday evening. That’s not counting what I pull out after a shower







so just to give a little idea of what is going on. I’ll save you from the shower hair lol


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## littleheathens

Tami- it's interesting times, for sure.

Some of my medical freedom/free-thinking friends tell me they'll keep my hopefulness in check so as to avoid chronic disappointment. It's an act of kindness!


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## FizzyGoats

My hair comes out a lot. It always has. I clean my brush and it looks like that after a brushing and I have long but not super thick hair, average I guess. I’ll be keeping an eye out now though. I seriously shed hair everywhere I go. 

I’m really sorry that harassment and shaming has gotten so bad. It’s not where I live but I believe it.
My daughter who decided not to get the vaccine had a nurse attempt to shame her at the hospital after having her baby (as if dealing with a newborn who needs multiple heart surgeries isn’t enough), but my daughter stood her ground as politely as possible and the nurse eventually dropped it. My son in law had to get the vax because he’s in the military and wasn’t going to risk losing his job and insurance when his family was in such a vulnerable position. 

My husband also had to get it to keep his job (they are contracted by the military). I went to get the Tdap and flu shot (recommended by my grandson’s cardiologist for anyone coming to see him) and our insurance is still through the military so I went on base to get it and they didn’t say a word about me not having the COVID vaccination. I really thought they would. 

I keep thinking this will blow over, but I’ve been saying this for quite a while now and here we all are still stuck in the same storm. It will blow over, right?


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## Damfino

I have one of these so in case my hair ever falls out I'm all set!


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## Dandy Hill Farm

Damfino said:


> I have one of these so in case my hair ever falls out I'm all set!
> View attachment 217440


Oh sure you do.......I need proof of that! 😜🤣


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## Calistar

FizzyGoats said:


> My son in law had to get the vax because he’s in the military and wasn’t going to risk losing his job and insurance when his family was in such a vulnerable position.


I sell milk and eggs weekly to a woman with 2 little girls. Her husband is military. Two weeks ago when she came for her weekly pickup, she informed me that they were suddenly going to be moving before Christmas, from California all the way to Tennessee. Her husband was being required to get the shot or be dishonorably discharged. After 14 years of service and not a spot on his record. So he's standing his ground, and they're getting out. I don't care what your stance is on the vaccine- that kind of coercion is wrong. I'm sad that it came to that, but with the way this state in particular is headed, it may be for the best that they're getting out.


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## Damfino

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Oh sure you do.......I need proof of that! 😜🤣


Oh, if you saw my costume closet the clown wig wouldn't even look all that outrageous. When we moved into our current house, I had a huge closet for the first time in my life. I use some of it to hang my t-shirts, but the rest belongs to my rather expansive costume collection, one whole box of which is dedicated to wigs. When someone invites you to an '80's party, or a hippie party, or a gangster party, or a Chinese party, it's important to have something to wear:


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## Dandy Hill Farm

Damfino said:


> Oh, if you saw my costume closet the clown wig wouldn't even look all that outrageous. When we moved into our current house, I had a huge closet for the first time in my life. I use some of it to hang my t-shirts, but the rest belongs to my rather expansive costume collection, one whole box of which is dedicated to wigs. When someone invites you to an '80's party, or a hippie party, or a gangster party, or a Chinese party, it's important to have something to wear:
> View attachment 217481
> View attachment 217482
> 
> 
> View attachment 217483
> View attachment 217484


Okay, I believe you now! You could totally pull off that clown wig too! 😁


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## FizzyGoats

Calistar said:


> I sell milk and eggs weekly to a woman with 2 little girls. Her husband is military. Two weeks ago when she came for her weekly pickup, she informed me that they were suddenly going to be moving before Christmas, from California all the way to Tennessee. Her husband was being required to get the shot or be dishonorably discharged. After 14 years of service and not a spot on his record. So he's standing his ground, and they're getting out. I don't care what your stance is on the vaccine- that kind of coercion is wrong. I'm sad that it came to that, but with the way this state in particular is headed, it may be for the best that they're getting out.


That’s just not right. My son in law wasn’t in a great position to take a stand with his newborn needing so much medical intervention, otherwise, he probably would have gotten out. I do have to say, the military has been great to them through all the surgeries and long hospital stays, letting him have all the time he needs with his family. But the strong arming people into a decision they wouldn’t otherwise make is so infuriating and depressing. 

On the pulse side, your clients are moving to a great state. Though I am biased. I used to live in Colorado (still love it, still miss the mountains) but have lived in Tennessee for a while now and never want to leave. I really enjoy it here. You just have to learn to put up with some really wild weather. 



Damfino said:


> Oh, if you saw my costume closet the clown wig wouldn't even look all that outrageous. When we moved into our current house, I had a huge closet for the first time in my life. I use some of it to hang my t-shirts, but the rest belongs to my rather expansive costume collection, one whole box of which is dedicated to wigs. When someone invites you to an '80's party, or a hippie party, or a gangster party, or a Chinese party, it's important to have something to wear:
> View attachment 217481
> View attachment 217482
> 
> 
> View attachment 217483
> View attachment 217484


🤣 If my hair starts coming out, I may be calling on you for some wig advice. I’m leaning toward clown.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Jessica:wow not good huh? I hope that hair loss stops. Yikes!

Littleheathens:that’s kind of them….

Fizzygoats:I don’t know in my state if this will ever blow over. They were talking about voting for permanent mandates, I think that idea was shut down…
Well I just went and looked it up and as of last wk apparently they are ‘making a plan’. Crazy!! I don’t think this is going to ‘blow over’ in my state. Our governor is on her way out tho next year so perhaps someone more sane will be our next governor. One can hope. 









Oregon is set to enforce permanent mask mandate for residents


The Oregon Health Authority Rules Advisory Committee met on Thursday to draft a set of rules that would make the state indoor mask mandate permanent




www.google.com





There is a silver lining tho. I think some merchants are starting to push back. Also stores probably don’t want to be ‘mask police’ making sure everyone has one on. Who has the staff for that?

Oh also about your comment about Tennessee’s weather..I lived there when I was younger and I still remember the snakes and flash flood!

Calistar:wow thanks for sharing that story of that family. That’s just wrong! A family member of mine moved to Tennessee too with their family for the same reason from another state. Our rights are being taken away. It’s not right.


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## Damfino

Calistar said:


> I sell milk and eggs weekly to a woman with 2 little girls. Her husband is military. Two weeks ago when she came for her weekly pickup, she informed me that they were suddenly going to be moving before Christmas, from California all the way to Tennessee. Her husband was being required to get the shot or be dishonorably discharged. After 14 years of service and not a spot on his record. So he's standing his ground, and they're getting out. I don't care what your stance is on the vaccine- that kind of coercion is wrong.


To be fair, coercion is standard practice in every military in the world, including ours, and has been since the first military began. On the subject of military vaccine mandates in this country, take a look back to the Revolution. George Washington forced his military to take the smallpox vaccine, which at that point in time was still extremely experimental. The military has a long tradition of forcing its members to take any and all vaccines, take experimental and/or highly dangerous drugs, endure experimental procedures, etc. Soldiers have no rights. They are property of the government to be used and disposed of at will, even to the point of death if the government feels their lives are required. Does that offend civilian sensibilities? Perhaps, but that is the harsh reality of military service. Soldiers are not free citizens and they never have been in any country in the history of the world, so let's not kid ourselves that the recent vaccine mandate is something new or outrageous.


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## Calistar

Accepting something unjust simply because that's how it's always been done is a very dangerous way of thinking.


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## K.B.

Calistar said:


> Accepting something unjust simply because that's how it's always been done is a very dangerous way of thinking.


Agree!


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## Calistar

@FizzyGoats , I have never heard anything bad about Tennessee! Well, except for @Buck Naked Boers 's comment just now about snakes and flash floods 😆 I've lived in California all my life, and all my family is here, but I am starting to keep an ear to the ground. I know very little about Tennessee, but it seems nice and it would be the first state I'd look into if it came to it.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im retired medical studied Physical Therapy, Natural Medicine, and have several medical degrees, certifications,licences ya da ya da. 
Anything I say for education purposes only. No Shameing. My degrees and information is not from the internet, its from medical journals and studies through several universities, medical researchers,and pharmaceutical co workers. 
I dont trust the internet, 90% is a joke. So if I have said anything that you took as shameing, I apologize. I attempt to understand the ridiculous info printed on the internet to get a journalist award or promotion. And then watch it snowball with devastating health results. Our Government rules with fear, and relies on the public being uninformed and unable to recieve current , stable information. The stats Ive seen on several sites are false & alarming. 
Yes hairloss, loss of teeth, fingernail and toenail thinning. Anything that requires the least amount of blood will be reduced. It should return as your immunity improves. It works like waves through our bodies. 
I will caution and ask all of you to research any vacination before you take it. There are warnings on all medications. The attitude..It wont happen to me, is now gone. Be careful, be safe, and dont believe commercials, internet, do your own research..you are worth it. So are your children, thats the next group.


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## Damfino

Calistar said:


> Accepting something unjust simply because that's how it's always been done is a very dangerous way of thinking.


Is it really "unjust" though? The principle of any military is that young men are the most disposable part of any population, and also the most capable, willing, and ready to fight and die in the purpose of defense. In the name of national security, they are necessarily made to do things that no human being should ever be asked or required to do. They are not given a choice about whether or not to obey any given command because in times of war this would compromise the safety of their comrades in arms, the success of their mission, and ultimately the security of their nation. Is that "unjust"? In a civilian sense, absolutely. But is it nevertheless right? I don't know. 

George Washington required smallpox inoculation because the biggest threat to his army was not the British--it was disease. The entire success of his military plan hinged on having an army fit to fight. If one believes that Covid is a dire and immediate threat to the health of our military, then vaccination is a very small price to pay to maintain their readiness to fight. Ultimately it comes down to what the ruling government believes about the seriousness of the virus and the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines. If they believe the virus is serious and the vaccines are effective, then it would be morally irresponsible for the government NOT to require vaccination of soldiers. All actions stem from the fundamental beliefs we hold about the world, and if someone else's beliefs are different from yours, expect them to take different actions than you would take and know that for them it is in fact a moral and just decision.


----------



## DDFN

Calistar said:


> @FizzyGoats , I have never heard anything bad about Tennessee! Well, except for @Buck Naked Boers 's comment just now about snakes and flash floods 😆 I've lived in California all my life, and all my family is here, but I am starting to keep an ear to the ground. I know very little about Tennessee, but it seems nice and it would be the first state I'd look into if it came to it.


Now it depends on what part and area of Tennessee but yes we have flash floods often. We just have ourselves trained to know how to read the creeks and weather if your a native. And most of the snakes don't bother you. Just watch out for them, but we do have two types of scorpions most people don't realize we have. They don't normally get bigger than 3 inches in length though. 

Problem right now is everyone is moving to Tennessee. And I mean everyone! Houses that should be cheap are sky high. This is also why and how my friend just got tricked our of her lease to own mortgage. Her mother decided to sale it when there was an agreement and she broke the agreement. How can people do this to their own flesh and blood just to make a quick buck.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Is it really "unjust" though? The principle of any military is that young men are the most disposable part of any population, and also the most capable, willing, and ready to fight and die in the purpose of defense. In the name of national security, they are necessarily made to do things that no human being should ever be asked or required to do. They are not given a choice about whether or not to obey any given command because in times of war this would compromise the safety of their comrades in arms, the success of their mission, and ultimately the security of their nation. Is that "unjust"? In a civilian sense, absolutely. But is it nevertheless right? I don't know.
> 
> George Washington required smallpox inoculation because the biggest threat to his army was not the British--it was disease. The entire success of his military plan hinged on having an army fit to fight. If one believes that Covid is a dire and immediate threat to the health of our military, then vaccination is a very small price to pay to maintain their readiness to fight. Ultimately it comes down to what the ruling government believes about the seriousness of the virus and the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines. If they believe the virus is serious and the vaccines are effective, then it would be morally irresponsible for the government NOT to require vaccination of soldiers. All actions stem from the fundamental beliefs we hold about the world, and if someone else's beliefs are different from yours, expect them to take different actions than you would take and know that for them it is in fact a moral and just decision.


I know nothing about the US laws, much less the military laws. And I don't know what is signed when one enlist. Sure, kick out anyone not wanting the jab. But labling it a dishonourable discharge seems harsh. Though I do not know what the options actually are.


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## Damfino

The military IS harsh. It always has been and that's how it has to be if is to be functional. It bothers civilians because we have forgotten what the military is for. In most ways our current military is much, much softer now than at any previous point in this country's history. Is that a good thing? I don't know. Some would say it's good. Others would say our military has become weak and ineffective due to pressure from civilians who, unfamiliar with the rigors of war, want to give soldiers more rights and options than they should have if we were more serious about winning wars than about social justice. If our government has the right to send its soldiers to their deaths, then it has the right to dictate their lives leading up to those deaths. Is it nice? No. It's the business of war. It was never supposed to be nice.


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## Mike at Capra Vista

B.C. announced new public health orders on gatherings that take effect Monday.

As of Dec. 20, organizers of indoor public events of all sizes are required to use the B.C. vaccine card to verify immunization for all participants. Private New Year’s Eve parties of all sizes are not allowed, as they have been shown to be “super-spreader” events. New Year’s Eve events must be seated only, with no mingling or dancing.

Also off until at least Jan. 31 are sports tournaments, after a rugby tournament on Vancouver Island led to much of the early spread of Omicron in B.C. and at universities around the country. Larger sports and entertainment events with more than 1,000 people will be limited to half capacity from Dec. 20 to Jan. 31.

For personal gatherings over the holiday season, the limit is one household plus up to 10 people, or two households, with everyone having proof of vaccination. Families with one or more unvaccinated members are not to gather outside their households.
------------------------------------------------------------

...and so it continues. I have fond memories of "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "herd immunity".

More vaccinations, more boosters, more restrictions, more masks,....


.


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## toth boer goats

Military men and women who stand up to this mandate, which isn’t law, are true hero’s. 
Some Generals have pushed back in some of the branches to st

Sadly some are forced to quit, so they are not forced to get the jab.

Times-have changed, we the people need to fight. Military included.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> B.C. announced new public health orders on gatherings that take effect Monday.
> 
> As of Dec. 20, organizers of indoor public events of all sizes are required to use the B.C. vaccine card to verify immunization for all participants. Private New Year’s Eve parties of all sizes are not allowed, as they have been shown to be “super-spreader” events. New Year’s Eve events must be seated only, with no mingling or dancing.
> 
> Also off until at least Jan. 31 are sports tournaments, after a rugby tournament on Vancouver Island led to much of the early spread of Omicron in B.C. and at universities around the country. Larger sports and entertainment events with more than 1,000 people will be limited to half capacity from Dec. 20 to Jan. 31.
> 
> For personal gatherings over the holiday season, the limit is one household plus up to 10 people, or two households, with everyone having proof of vaccination. Families with one or more unvaccinated members are not to gather outside their households.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...and so it continues. I have fond memories of "two weeks to flatten the curve" and "herd immunity".
> 
> More vaccinations, more boosters, more restrictions, more masks,....
> 
> 
> .


I agree…..our governments have lost their minds.


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## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> B.C. announced new public health orders on gatherings that take effect Monday.
> 
> As of Dec. 20, organizers of indoor public events of all sizes are required to use the B.C. vaccine card to verify immunization for all participants. Private New Year’s Eve parties of all sizes are not allowed, as they have been shown to be “super-spreader” events. New Year’s Eve events must be seated only, with no mingling or dancing.
> 
> For personal gatherings over the holiday season, the limit is one household plus up to 10 people, or two households, with everyone having proof of vaccination. Families with one or more unvaccinated members are not to gather outside their households.


HA! Good luck with that! Government can _say_ whatever it wants. Whether they can actually enforce it on a population who refuses to listen is an entirely different matter. Our government "mandated" all kinds of things last year. Did anyone bother to listen? Certainly not in my neck of the woods! Since government had no interest in enforcing its mandates, there were no consequences for non-compliance either. Which begs the question, why bother with a mandate in the first place if you're not going to enforce it? 

I really like what our Colorado governor said recently when asked whether our state would go back to masks, curfews, distancing rules, etc. He scoffed at the idea and said if people want vaccinations, they've been available for a year, and if you're not vaccinated by now and die of Covid it's "your own darned fault!" I love that! Our governor knows that all the mandates last year were largely useless, largely ignored, and completely unenforced. It was pandemic theater and he's not willing to keep play-acting any longer. If cities or counties want to enact mandates he's not going to stop them, which is fine with me. I'm a huge fan of locals deciding what's best for themselves without federal or state governments butting in and telling them what they can and can't do. It's where I've been very much against the "mandates against mandates" that some of the posturing big-government Republican governors have been doing in some of their states. Let the locals decide!


----------



## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> Military men and women who stand up to this mandate, which isn’t law, are true hero’s.
> Some Generals have pushed back in some of the branches to st
> 
> Sadly some are forced to quit, so they are not forced to get the jab.
> 
> Times-have changed, we the people need to fight. Military included.


Why do we care whether something is called a mandate or a law? It's semantics. It's as silly as the argument that the vaccine only had emergency approval. Then it got full approval and of course that didn't change anyone's opinion. The "emergency approval" argument was just a red herring, as is the mandate vs. law argument. Changing it from a mandate to a law isn't going to change anyone's opinion or actions so why harp on that point? 

The government told its military to do something and they have to do it or get kicked out. That is how the military works. I hardly call it "heroic" when someone stands up against an order whose stakes are this low. Standing for or against vaccines is not "heroic". It's just a personal decision. Those have consequences. Make your choice and stand on it, but don't expect anyone to applaud or affirm or accommodate your decision. I fail to see where "heroism" comes into it at all. If the government wants to send these men to die in an illegal, unethical, or ill-conceived war it has every right to do so. We call these men cowards if they desert in the face of enemy fire, but we call them heroes if they desert in the face of a vaccine that almost certainly won't harm them. What?? 

My husband's co-worker who is in the air force endured rounds and rounds of heroine injections administered by the U.S. government in order to keep him alert for days so he could complete missions without sleep. How does a piffling little vaccine mandate even compare to forcibly drugging someone? This type of treatment didn't go away in the 60's. It's still happening. So tell me why we are surprised or outraged at vaccine mandates again?


----------



## Goats Rock

My daughter (had a baby in July, just went back to work as a teacher) called all upset. She thought she had Covid and was 
wearing a mask and nursing her beloved baby and crying that her first Christmas with the baby
would be only her husband and no other family. I said not to borrow trouble, get a covid test and then figure out what to do. (she had the "shots")
Yay- she is negative for Covid! What a crazy world we live in to be happy to "only" have a cold or the Flu! Wow!


----------



## Jessica84

Calistar said:


> I sell milk and eggs weekly to a woman with 2 little girls. Her husband is military. Two weeks ago when she came for her weekly pickup, she informed me that they were suddenly going to be moving before Christmas, from California all the way to Tennessee. Her husband was being required to get the shot or be dishonorably discharged. After 14 years of service and not a spot on his record. So he's standing his ground, and they're getting out. I don't care what your stance is on the vaccine- that kind of coercion is wrong. I'm sad that it came to that, but with the way this state in particular is headed, it may be for the best that they're getting out.


As a fellow Californian this makes me sad. So many good people are leaving this state. As someone who has never imagined leaving the reality is becoming seriously sad. 
So I took my daughter shopping yesterday. We are under a mask mandate again. Went to Walmart, searched the whole truck and couldn’t find a dang mask! Figured it was a wasted trip but went to go in anyways. Lady at the door gave me and my daughter a mask. I do believe if I am in someone’s store and they require a mask you either put one on or don’t shop there. I mean if I had a business there are things I wouldn’t want in my store so I respect that. Anyways so everyone had a mask on. Loaded up my stuff and went to a western clothing store. Can’t find my dang mask! And a sign on the door saying masks are required. I’m like well crap let’s get yelled at! Nope. Not a single customer was wearing a mask and half the employees had them down on chin. I’m thinking people are done with this crap. Especially since I heard San Francisco is exempt from the mandate. I don’t watch the news any more so can’t say this is 100% but sure wouldn’t doubt it! Nothing this governor does makes sense to me! Only essential businesses unless your cutting elected officials hair. Everything is closed unless it’s the governors wine companies. Things like that


----------



## luvmyherd

It is the hypocrisy that bugs me more than anything else Jessica. And I firmly believe this virus needs to be taken seriously and use the layers of protection I can to keep from getting it. But why work so hard when the ones making the rules go to birthday parties etc?
As to the _vaccine_; I looked at a lot of info before making my choice and got it mainly because of my age and how much we travel. My granddaughter has refused because she is of childbearing age and they just do not know enough. I told her I don't blame her. She was never vaccinated as a child and neither were my other grandchildren. Believe me; if I was pregnant I would not even consider it. But I would also be extra careful. I put the vaccine in quotes because I realized from the beginning that it was not really immunity but rather for a lessening of symptoms. That's why it is still spreading and why we avoid crowds and mask up.
The military has rules about following orders. That can be anything from digging holes in the rain to killing humans to getting a shot. Lots of shots as a matter of fact! They are many people close together traveling and mixing with others from all over the world. (My sons both had lasting effects from immunizations received in the Marines but that is not what caused their PTSD.)
I think I am caught up now. That nice long break from reality in the desert was so nice🏜 No signals!


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## DDFN

So did anyone else see the YouTube video on Australian covid camps? Saw one last night of a woman sharing her experience of being forced into a covid camp by police for just being involved in contact tracing. She ended up with 2 negative covid tests and they still forced her to stay for 14 days. If she left her camp (little tiny box of a cabin) then she would be fined 5,000 dollars. What? And meanwhile over here you can't talk about masks with students and can't comment on anyone coughing without being possibly sued. Wow .


----------



## ksalvagno

Yes, I saw that. I also saw a video where a German gentleman was outside their parliament building showing people the death numbers in 2018 compared to 2020. Very interesting.


----------



## DDFN

Well I didn't see that one. Wow what is happening these days? They just cancelled the middle school robotics competition and now waiting to see if they cancel our high school one now.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Irish Minister Threatens ‘Several Years’ of Lockdowns with Only ‘Periods of Freedom’

Ireland’s Deputy Prime Minister, Leo Varadkar has warned of a “long war” with the coronavirus, during which the government may allow only “periods of freedom” for the people.


----------



## ksalvagno

Just as bad as Australia, Austria and Germany. Just read that H3N2 flu virus has mutated and this year's flu shot won't work on the mutation.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Wow! Thanks for sharing all this info DDFN, ksalvagno, mike at Capra vista.


----------



## DDFN

Welcome. It's a sad time we live in right now.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Wow. Just wow. Things are getting crazy. 

I’d like to make one little point on the military and soldiers. Even the UCMJ people (i.e. soldiers) and property are discussed separately, meaning they are not one and the same. Calling a human being property implies slavery and thanks to the 13th amendment, that’s a no-go. They are not property of the government but are contracted employees and that contract is really strict. And they get lots of injections. My husband and I were laughing because we just got a copy of our shot records and his is pages and pages, it’s like a novella, and mine takes up half a page. I grew up in a military family, my dad served, my brothers joined, my husband is retired military so I have lived that life. If the military says you’re getting this shot, you get it or get out. It’s the dishonorable discharge that irks me. In my opinion, that’s harsh. Granted, that is just my opinion. 

Now back to regularly scheduled program. @DDFN I had no idea COVID camps even existed. That’s insane. I keep thinking things will even out, people won’t have to necessarily agree but will find a middle ground and both sides will be reasonable. I don’t consider myself overly optimistic but I may have to reconsider.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

I've been hesitating posting this. I'm not a fan of Rebel News but sometimes they have things not seen elsewhere.

Judging by her list of degrees, it seems Jessica Rose often IS the sharpest knife in the drawer. Here is a short interview about her findings from looking into the VAERS database. Some unsettling things.









Dr. Jessica Rose on adverse vaccine reactions from myocarditis to women's reproductive health


Dr. Rose has a Post Doctorate in both Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, a PhD in Computational Biology and a Masters in Immunology, as well as a BSc in Applied Mathematics.




www.rebelnews.com


----------



## DDFN

Fizzygoats I didn't either until I happened across it on YouTube. 

Mike am I the only one worried I will get flagged by the government if I click a rebelsnews website. They may come and haul me off to a camp.


----------



## ksalvagno

I'm sure there are plenty of websites that will flag you. Won't have to worry about CNN.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

DDFN said:


> Mike am I the only one worried I will get flagged by the government if I click a rebelsnews website. They may come and haul me off to a camp.


I'm here to confirm that I have not been hauled away (yet). But I do live in a different country.


----------



## littleheathens

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I've been hesitating posting this. I'm not a fan of Rebel News but sometimes they have things not seen elsewhere.
> 
> Judging by her list of degrees, it seems Jessica Rose often IS the sharpest knife in the drawer. Here is a short interview about her findings from looking into the VAERS database. Some unsettling things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Jessica Rose on adverse vaccine reactions from myocarditis to women's reproductive health
> 
> 
> Dr. Rose has a Post Doctorate in both Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, a PhD in Computational Biology and a Masters in Immunology, as well as a BSc in Applied Mathematics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rebelnews.com


That's an excellent interview! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Thankyou @Mike at Capra Vista ..for bringing in that link. I agree 100%. Its amazing how fear tactics can scare & endanger so many lives. The false power of control has been attempted for centuries. You would think 
As humans, we would learn frm dictators like Hitler, wouldnt you.


----------



## littleheathens

Pfizer, BioNtech and Moderna are making _*$93,500,000 per day*_ in 2021. There are 5 new billionaires from these bigpharma monopolies this year, with over $35,000,000,000 in wealth between them. Hitler couldn't touch that sort of power.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

An Irish grandmother who violated the nation’s mask mandate is to spend Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to a year in prison.

Margaret Buttimer, a 66-year-old grandmother, will spend this Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to one year in prison for violating Ireland’s mask mandate, with six months of the sentence being suspended.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I'm here to confirm that I have not been hauled away (yet). But I do live in a different country.


They tried to come for you but the road was flooded and the helicopters are not in the budget just yet


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> An Irish grandmother who violated the nation’s mask mandate is to spend Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to a year in prison.
> 
> Margaret Buttimer, a 66-year-old grandmother, will spend this Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to one year in prison for violating Ireland’s mask mandate, with six months of the sentence being suspended.


Check please! This world has lost their ever crazy minds at this point.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

DDFN said:


> They tried to come for you but the road was flooded and the helicopters are not in the budget just yet


That's quite possible. It's funny you mention helicopter ...

From a couple of days ago:
*Cracks now found in 21 of the Canadian military’s 23 Cyclone helicopters*

So it is not that we don't have helicopters, it is more that they are for display purposes only.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> That's quite possible. It's funny you mention helicopter ...
> 
> From a couple of days ago:
> *Cracks now found in 21 of the Canadian military’s 23 Cyclone helicopters*
> 
> So it is not that we don't have helicopters, it is more that they are for display purposes only.


Oh dear well I didn't mean to be right about it lol. Display purposes.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I've been hesitating posting this. I'm not a fan of Rebel News but sometimes they have things not seen elsewhere.
> 
> Judging by her list of degrees, it seems Jessica Rose often IS the sharpest knife in the drawer. Here is a short interview about her findings from looking into the VAERS database. Some unsettling things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Jessica Rose on adverse vaccine reactions from myocarditis to women's reproductive health
> 
> 
> Dr. Rose has a Post Doctorate in both Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, a PhD in Computational Biology and a Masters in Immunology, as well as a BSc in Applied Mathematics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rebelnews.com


Good interview, but I really, really wish these videos didn't have the sensational, all-caps wording at the top. The ridiculous hyperbole makes them just as bad as any other "news" media and it makes them a heck of a lot less believable. 

You know what also makes it less believable is Jessica Rose's non-professional demeanor. Professionals don't use words like "crap" or other crude words or colloquialisms when they want people to take them seriously. Sloppy, amateurish behavior like this can only hurt the message. If you really think your message is important, you should act like it's important and treat your audience like they are intelligent. It should never come across as though you're talking to a friend in a bar! You can know everything in the world about a topic, but if you sound like an idiot no one who matters will ever take you seriously.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> An Irish grandmother who violated the nation’s mask mandate is to spend Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to a year in prison.
> 
> Margaret Buttimer, a 66-year-old grandmother, will spend this Christmas behind bars after being sentenced to one year in prison for violating Ireland’s mask mandate, with six months of the sentence being suspended.


The story sounds sensational at first blush, but after investigating the details I can't help but think this lady deserves exactly what she got. She had already violated mask policy on like eight different occasions but continued to disregard the rules time after time, warning after warning. The manager of the business where she was arrested in the latest incident had asked her to leave or mask up no less than 15 times. If the manager of a business tells you to leave, YOU LEAVE! It's THEIR property, THEIR rules, THEIR right to kick you out. She was basically begging to get arrested and after many, many tries she finally did. The judge felt bad but he was at a loss what else to do at that point. 

Everyone here knows that I hate mask mandates with a passion, I am not convinced that masks do more than make some people feel better about mingling in crowds, and I have no use for draconian governmental laws. However, I am in the minority in that stance. Most governments have, at one point or another during this pandemic, decided that masks work for the "greater good" and have implemented rules on their use. Many private businesses have implemented mask rules even where the government has not. That is their right, and it is the government's job to protect private property. If this lady insists on repeatedly violating rules, the government has to eventually enforce the rules or remove them. If a private business has a rule and wants to throw someone out for violating it, the government either has to back up the business or make a rule against businesses having rules. So while I might disagree with the rule, I also disagree with this grandmother's repeated, knowing, and deliberate violation of it. She was begging for trouble and she eventually got exactly what she wanted.


----------



## littleheathens

Damfino said:


> Good interview, but I really, really wish these videos didn't have the sensational, all-caps wording at the top. The ridiculous hyperbole makes them just as bad as any other "news" media and it makes them a heck of a lot less believable.
> 
> You know what also makes it less believable is Jessica Rose's non-professional demeanor. Professionals don't use words like "crap" or other crude words or colloquialisms when they want people to take them seriously. Sloppy, amateurish behavior like this can only hurt the message. If you really think your message is important, you should act like it's important and treat your audience like they are intelligent. It should never come across as though you're talking to a friend in a bar! You can know everything in the world about a topic, but if you sound like an idiot no one who matters will ever take you seriously.


I think your points are all true. A cleaner presentation would be more widely accepted and be more credible. I can watch the interview and see past all the distractions (I don't even recall the all caps!) though because I found Dr Rose so compelling. I did try afterwards to find other articles or interviews by her.

It's important to remember that most of these messages have been scrubbed from the internet, censored. The few left standing are not the well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media that we are accustomed to seeing. Kudos to anyone willing to take on risk or wrath and speak their mind in this dreadful media climate.


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> It's important to remember that most of these messages have been scrubbed from the internet, censored. The few left standing are not the well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media that we are accustomed to seeing. Kudos to anyone willing to take on risk or wrath and speak their mind in this dreadful media climate.


Stuff doesn't get scrubbed from the internet, just from mainstream platforms. People who create controversial content have to pick the right platforms or they're going to get taken down. I should think everyone knows that by now. 

As far as being under-funded, it costs exactly nothing to speak and act professionally on camera. Why undermine your own message for no reason? Makes no sense to me and it makes me kind of sad.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

I was avoiding reading this thread for two reasons, 1. I hate controversy and 2. I despise even the word Covid and everything to do with it. 

Yesterday, my sweet father-in-law died after a bout of it. He was 91. It kicked my mother-in-law's dementia into full gear and although she is totally recovered from the Covid, she has forgotten how to swallow. I watched my husband and his two brothers have a zoom meeting with each of them. My father-in-law wouldn't wake up and my mother-in-law didn't know them. Watching three grown men yell, "Daddy," or "Mama," and "I love you" and begging for any kind of recognition was absolutely unreal.

We have been taking prophylactics for awhile now. They were prescribed by a doctor, two doctors actually. We take hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Hydroxycholoquine was the first one recommended and now they recommended ivermectin. We do both just to be extra cautious. We found one doctor here: Home - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance . He's an urgent care doctor. The other doctor was from the Medici app. 

When we found out that my in-laws had Covid we were extra concerned because we were there just prior to that. I sat literally skin to skin on a tiny loveseat with my mother-in-law. Our faces were barely 8" from each other as we sat and talked. Neither my husband or myself came down with it. Both of his brothers did. All four of them used the protocol prescribed to them by one of the Home - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance doctors. I wish my in-laws had received monoclonal antibodies, but they didn't want to leave the house. 

God was so merciful to my father-in-law. They removed his O2 (he had refused a vent) and he went peacefully in less than 2 hours. He is truly home now and he was ready to go. My husband spoke to him on Saturday and he told him he was ready and that he was going to a better place. He sure is right about that. 

I posted the link to the website in case anyone is interested in getting prophylactic treatment or if anyone just wants a treatment protocol on hand should you get sick. The link has many doctors listed and what states they can treat in. Some accept insurance. On the Medici app there are doctors that accept donations or will give free care to those that need it. The Medici app has a longer wait time though. 

I wish you all well. May God have mercy on us.


----------



## happybleats

Chanceosunshine said:


> posted the link to the website in case anyone is interested in getting prophylactic treatment or if anyone just wants a treatment protocol on hand should you get sick.


A friend in California went through them and had everything she needed when she and hers got sick. Her BIL has COPD and is elderly. They were very concerned for him. Both he and his wife had the antibody treatment and was Feeling better in a day..Definitely having protocol ready helped them get better quicker.
Very sorry for rhe loss of your FIL. Hes in good hands now.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Chsnceosunshine: I’m so sorry for your loss. We too have lost family by covid. It’s unbelievable what families are going through. 

Some of my family are taking prophylactic treatment too. I have started it too. That’s good you shared the link for help getting meds if people need them. 

I’m definitely not on the mask mandate bandwagon. I don’t think they help much if any in protecting people from this virus. The govt thinks they are the expert on the Covid. And yet even with vaccines and boosters people are still getting it. I have family and know others who were fully vaccinated and yet they still got sick. The govt keeps pushing all of us to get shots and more shots. But it doesn’t make sense to me. Nobody really seems to know much about the virus. Our state is still mask mandated. I wouldn’t be surprised if we are put in lockdown of sorts again in the near future. It’s crazy….


----------



## littleheathens

Damfino said:


> Stuff doesn't get scrubbed from the internet, just from mainstream platforms. People who create controversial content have to pick the right platforms or they're going to get taken down. I should think everyone knows that by now.
> 
> As far as being under-funded, it costs exactly nothing to speak and act professionally on camera. Why undermine your own message for no reason? Makes no sense to me and it makes me kind of sad.


Well, that I disagree with. I know many sites- mainstream, social media, personal sites, etc, as well as personal comments, that have been removed. Censorship has been ubiquitous the last couple of years, though it is less rampant now.

You took my words out of context. I said "The few left standing are not the well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media that we are accustomed to seeing." That is 100% true. The well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media is not interviewing the likes of Dr Rose. Semantics matter. In the case of this interview, I am able to look past the journalist's disadvantages and see the message- I'm trying to give the underdog a leg to stand on.


----------



## littleheathens

I've shared several links, forgive me if this is a repeat. Along with the FLCCC, another tool in your box.

This is a tutorial on making an effective, ages old home remedy from citrus. I read through lots of comments and learned even more. I'm not worried about the virus for my own household but I'll make this and keep it on hand any time there is a bug circulating. Sometimes I fill a jar with slices of lemon and ginger and pour honey over it and eat/drink all of it. This is a more potent iteration.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

LH: yes I agree. So much we can do to improve our health/immune system. Thanks for sharing that link. 

Something else people don’t talk about much is intermittent fasting. I’ve been doing this since having had cancer in 2017. Eating more healthy. Also trying to stay away from processed foods and sugar using more natural forms of sugar. Makes a difference. 

Something my health teacher taught me and others in college…after eating sugar your immune system is compromised for 2 hrs approx. that has been seared into my brain since college. Makes sense. So dialing back on sugar is a good thing. Diabetes is out of control in this country.


----------



## toth boer goats

Chanceosunshine, I am so sorry for your loss, how devastating.


----------



## Damfino

Chanceosunshine said:


> Yesterday, my sweet father-in-law died after a bout of it. He was 91. It kicked my mother-in-law's dementia into full gear and although she is totally recovered from the Covid, she has forgotten how to swallow. I watched my husband and his two brothers have a zoom meeting with each of them. My father-in-law wouldn't wake up and my mother-in-law didn't know them. Watching three grown men yell, "Daddy," or "Mama," and "I love you" and begging for any kind of recognition was absolutely unreal.


I'm sorry for your loss, but congratulations to your father-in-law for making it to 91. That is a very respectable age for anyone to live. I'm sorry for what you're going through with your mother-in-law's dementia. That's a very difficult and heartbreaking problem to deal with.


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> Well, that I disagree with. I know many sites- mainstream, social media, personal sites, etc, as well as personal comments, that have been removed. Censorship has been ubiquitous the last couple of years, though it is less rampant now.


All mainstream and social media sites, as well as the personal comments made on all of them are heavily policed and censored. The rest of the internet not so much. It really depends on where you go and whether you know how to find it. If you post something controversial and you want it to stay up, you definitely shouldn't be posting it to Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, or any Google hosted site. But there are countless other services you can use that aren't supported by any of these big names and they are unpoliced and uncensored. However, they also don't get nearly as much traffic. That much is definitely true. 



littleheathens said:


> You took my words out of context. I said "The few left standing are not the well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media that we are accustomed to seeing." That is 100% true. The well-funded, well-polished, mainstream media is not interviewing the likes of Dr Rose. Semantics matter. In the case of this interview, I am able to look past the journalist's disadvantages and see the message- I'm trying to give the underdog a leg to stand on.


I apologize. That was not my intent. I think you might have misunderstood me as well. I was not criticizing the quality of the video at all or the fact that it's not on "mainstream media". I'm fine with all that (although I still think using huge fonts, all caps, and blazing colors is amateurish and smacks of "fake news"--one major reason I never, ever watch news on television). I was actually criticizing Dr. Rose herself. It wouldn't have mattered who interviewed her--she comes across like a freshman college student. As someone who supposedly has multiple degrees, she should know how to maintain professionalism in her demeanor and delivery. The message is lost if the messenger looks and sounds like someone you met in the Walmart parking lot. As someone who has ostensibly defended several theses in front of professional colleagues and superiors, she should know how to deliver a professional address. Unfortunately I would be embarrassed to send this interview to anyone no matter what platform it's on. That just makes me sad. 

Non-mainstream media is good. I prefer news from non-mainstream sources and it makes me happy when videos are hosted anywhere but YouTube. (I mean, you're conversing with someone who doesn't even own a cell phone in large part because of the "big brother" factor--how much more "conspiracy theorist" can you get?) However, my heart sinks when professionals don't appear to take their audience or even their own message seriously. 

(Why? WHY?? Speaking like a professional is so easy and it costs nothing!!!)


----------



## Moers kiko boars

@Chanceosunshine ..Im so sorry for your loss. My heart breaks for you. Yes the mask mandates have helped reduce the cold & flu virus. Thats one good thing. And it helps people remember to have manners and keep some distance. 
Thankyou @littleheathens for the video. We do need to share more credible information that works. 
Its almost Christmas. Remember why we have it. May God Bless each of you and your families!


----------



## toth boer goats

☝


----------



## Goats Rock

I have family coming in for Christmas- I have spent the last week trying to find home covid tests. None anywhere. If they are so worried about spreading
this thing over Christmas, why the heck don't they have enough tests for everyone? I am so frustrated. No pharmacies anywhere- the Health Dept is closed for 
a week. Grrrrr

Chancosunshine- so very sorry for your family's loss. That is heartbreaking.....


----------



## luvmyherd

We tried to find Covid tests for our anniversary party and could not find any at that time either. I keep hearing that they are going to make them available and cheaper or free but have not seen it. My son-in-law was exposed. His home test was negative but for work he needs one that is sent to a lab. They are so back logged it is taking over a week. He is vaccinated so we are sure hoping that is helping him.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Biden a few days ago just released half a billion (yep he said billion with a ‘b’)of Covid tests that he said can ship free to our homes. Yea. Ugh. Hopefully he knows or someone will tell him that nothing is actually free. Someone is paying for it. 
I’m wondering where they are getting the money for all this? Probably just printing more money. Oh! I know! Or raising our taxes….disguising it as free. In any case, he advertised it as free….


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

luvmyherd said:


> We tried to find Covid tests for our anniversary party


There must be better entertainment you can find for a party.


----------



## FizzyGoats

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> There must be better entertainment you can find for a party.


🤣


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Biden a few days ago just released half a billion (yep he said billion with a ‘b’)of Covid tests that he said can ship free to our homes. Yea. Ugh. Hopefully he knows or someone will tell him that nothing is actually free. Someone is paying for it.
> I’m wondering where they are getting the money for all this? Probably just printing more money. Oh! I know! Or raising our taxes….disguising it as free. In any case, he advertised it as free….


Yesterday's ABC interview:

Biden - ...rapid tests will start going out in the beginning of January...


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen said Monday:

".....you wear a three-ply surgical mask. Don’t wear a cloth mask. Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There’s no place for them in light of Omicron.”


----------



## littleheathens

I have learned in the last couple of days that 3 family friends in my area, all of whom have the whole house jabbed, got covid last week. So, out 11 people, 6 of them tested positive with symptoms.

One of them said "the vaccines are working!" because the others in the house didn't get it. Meanwhile, my family of 5 (no jabs) was in close contact with my hyper nephew (swimming, shouting, car pooling, snuggling, wrestling) over Thanksgiving weekend and he was sick/positive by Sunday. We all tested negative multiple times afterward, none of us sick.

We don't need vaccines now; we need bigpharma and gov't to spend a tiny fraction of mrna shot expenditures on researching and providing treatments.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Surgical masks are not tight on a persons face. Not on my face anyway. My cloth mask is more than 1 ply. I bet if masks work that my cloth mask is doing a better job than one of those loose fitting surgical masks. Lol. But there are a million opinions on all this. Lol


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> This is a tutorial on making an effective, ages old home remedy from citrus. I read through lots of comments and learned even more. I'm not worried about the virus for my own household but I'll make this and keep it on hand any time there is a bug circulating. Sometimes I fill a jar with slices of lemon and ginger and pour honey over it and eat/drink all of it. This is a more potent iteration.


Ok, so I just watched this and while I'm sure boiled-down citrus water is healthy and good for your immune system, it is NOT hydroxychloroquine. To say so is false, misleading, and downright dishonest. Hydroxychloroquine is a synthetic drug and you can't manufacture it in your kitchen. "Mama Natural" must have grown up watching Philo's "Secrets of the Universe" on U62...


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> We don't need vaccines; we need bigpharma and gov't to spend a tiny fraction of mrna shot expenditures on researching and providing treatments.


Is there anything wrong with having both vaccines and treatments? I personally think vaccines are one of the best things ever invented for the good of humanity. However, they do need to be effective and safer than the disease. I have a high level of confidence that the Covid vaccines are safer than the disease for elderly, obese, and immunocompromised people. I'm not convinced that they're safer for everyone else since the disease is mostly mild in young healthy populations. The downside is that even if these vaccines are safe, I don't think this first generation is all that effective. I don't know if it ever will be. Coronaviruses have eluded vaccination for generations and they have become endemic as part of what causes a common cold, which is seldom considered serious for any part of the population. I'd be willing to bet that many of our "familiar" coronaviruses were once scourges of humanity that eventually tamed down to the point where people and virus can live together successfully. It looks like Covid is mutating to do just that. 

Vaccines are good. Treatments are good. They don't have to be at odds with one another. One of my in-laws' favorite sayings is, "Better living through chemistry!"


----------



## toth boer goats

The covid vaccine is very dangerous, as well as the test swabs etc.
Too many deaths and health issues are associated with the jab. 
Covid deaths are far less than shown and being hidden by the media.


I will not do any of them. 
I pray others wake up. 
Why are they pushing this on us so hard? This isn’t right. 

Please don’t get offended. 
It is just how I feel, we have rights, this is a mandate, not a law.


----------



## littleheathens

thanks for the conversation, everyone! i think we're all getting something out of it.


----------



## littleheathens

Damfino said:


> Is there anything wrong with having both vaccines and treatments? I personally think vaccines are one of the best things ever invented for the good of humanity. However, they do need to be effective and safer than the disease. I have a high level of confidence that the Covid vaccines are safer than the disease for elderly, obese, and immunocompromised people. I'm not convinced that they're safer for everyone else since the disease is mostly mild in young healthy populations. The downside is that even if these vaccines are safe, I don't think this first generation is all that effective. I don't know if it ever will be. Coronaviruses have eluded vaccination for generations and they have become endemic as part of what causes a common cold, which is seldom considered serious for any part of the population. I'd be willing to bet that many of our "familiar" coronaviruses were once scourges of humanity that eventually tamed down to the point where people and virus can live together successfully. It looks like Covid is mutating to do just that.
> 
> Vaccines are good. Treatments are good. They don't have to be at odds with one another. One of my in-laws' favorite sayings is, "Better living through chemistry!"


@Damfino. It looks like you are implying that I said it's one or the other, that vaccines are bad. I did not mean we don't need vaccines at all, I should have said we don't need vaccine mandates. (Though I strongly believe a good treatment would serve humanity better than vaccines). They need to invest resources in effective treatments because we should have them by now.

We can all read and decipher truths and meanings for ourselves, without nit picking or losing the point of one's message. When I see something like "Make Hydroxychloroquine at Home" I read that as a sort of euphamism, like saying "Make your own Tylenol." Of course, when the post is by Mama Natural, she's probably not manufacturing pharmaceuticals in a youtube tutorial. I think she was smart to use that word so that people searching for something similar may find it; obviously you are not her target audience and it's questionable if you should have even watched the video if you had a problem with the title. I appreciate the knowledge and experience passed down through generations via simple home remedies, and do not oversimplify them, as in the case of "boiled down citrus water."

I'm not doing any more nit picking with you; I'm fine being on different wavelengths.


----------



## Damfino

I agree that we don't need vaccine mandates. I'm not in favor of vaccine laws or mandates at all in the case of Covid for quite a few reasons.

Like you, I also appreciate the knowledge and experience passed down through generations via simple home remedies. There are many good ones out there that are being overlooked now that we have more modern drugs (which I also greatly appreciate because let's face it--while many home remedies are excellent and effective, an awful lot of them just aren't!). 

You cannot tell me I shouldn't watch a video just because I'm not the "target audience". I don't know whether I'm the target audience until after I've watched it, and I often learn something whether I'm the target audience or not. I try my best not to get into a rut where I only listen to things from a point of view I already agree with. That is an incredibly narrow-minded and even dangerous way to live! When you post something to a public forum you must be open to the fact that some of the public will disagree with you, and that's ok. In fact, it's healthy! 

Nevertheless, I do take issue with anyone claiming they can manufacture synthetic drugs in their kitchen with all-natural products. That is ridiculous and it is false advertising. If "Mama Natural" wants to claim she's making something "as good or better" than hydroxychloroquine then she would be honest (or at least honest in her opinion). There's nothing wrong with subjectively claiming that your home remedy is better than a chemical one. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't, but at least you're not making false claims about the contents of the product itself. Claims of effectiveness are always subjective. Claims of product contents are not. That is a massive difference that needs to be respected no matter what "wavelength" anyone is on! This is not about whether or not a home remedy has value--it's about ethical communication and honesty. 

We need to make sure we are not guilty of the same crime we accuse "mainstream media" of committing--namely, lying to the public to pursue an agenda or for personal gain. I fear there is a lot of that on all sides of every Covid debate, and too many people are not looking critically at the media (mainstream or otherwise) that they consume.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> There must be better entertainment you can find for a party.


Anyone else normally find themselves here just for Mike's comments. . . Me, me little ole me. We need this laughs.


----------



## DDFN

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Biden a few days ago just released half a billion (yep he said billion with a ‘b’)of Covid tests that he said can ship free to our homes. Yea. Ugh. Hopefully he knows or someone will tell him that nothing is actually free. Someone is paying for it.
> I’m wondering where they are getting the money for all this? Probably just printing more money. Oh! I know! Or raising our taxes….disguising it as free. In any case, he advertised it as free….


Really wish this inflation would get under control. Taxes increasing and heard mortgage taxes would be going up again, but our income is not! Everything is costing us more and it's getting tough.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> CNN medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen said Monday:
> 
> ".....you wear a three-ply surgical mask. Don’t wear a cloth mask. Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There’s no place for them in light of Omicron.”


One of the things I find funny is my home made cloth masks (with built in washable filters) are much better quality than any surgical or store bought mask. I gave some for the riding students as a gift last year at camp. One of the mother's begged me to sale them because they couldn't find any near that quality. Didn't sale any but offered to make them if she provided materials.


----------



## Lil Boogie

toth boer goats said:


> The covid vaccine is very dangerous, as well as the test swabs etc.
> Too many deaths and health issues are associated with the jab.
> Covid deaths are far less than shown and being hidden by the media.
> 
> 
> I will not do any of them.
> I pray others wake up.
> Why are they pushing this on us so hard? This isn’t right.
> 
> Please don’t get offended.
> It is just how I feel, we have rights, this is a mandate, not a law.


AMEN TO THAT TOTH!!!😍😍😍😍😍😍. Me nor my family have or WILL get the vac. Its so, sooo dangerous!! And people are SO blind, they cannot see it....


----------



## ksalvagno

Dr Peter McCullough has had a treatment protocol out for all stages of illness for a while now. Why doctors and hospitals aren't even trying it is beyond me. He actually currently treats Covid patients and has done so through this entire time.


----------



## Dandy Hill Farm

toth boer goats said:


> The covid vaccine is very dangerous, as well as the test swabs etc.
> Too many deaths and health issues are associated with the jab.
> Covid deaths are far less than shown and being hidden by the media.
> 
> 
> I will not do any of them.
> I pray others wake up.
> Why are they pushing this on us so hard? This isn’t right.
> 
> Please don’t get offended.
> It is just how I feel, we have rights, this is a mandate, not a law.


Spot on, Pam!!! Everything you said is so very TRUE!!!


----------



## Goatastic43

It’s all about the  to big farma. If they really cared they’d be working on treatments not jab or die mentality.

@toth boer goats, I’ve never heard of the test swab being dangerous. I’ve had it done before, yes it hurts but, it’s just a glorified cotton swab right?

Mandates for it are stupid. My aunt and mom are nurses and they are trying to push a mandate to get the jab or leave there jobs. My mom is immune and my aunt is extremely reactive to vaccines. Thankfully, they accepted their request to not get if for now, but still… they were heros a year ago and now they are being treated terrible…

I wouldn’t say the vaccine is always deadly. I’m glad my grandma (who is 83) got it, but first graders at school shouldn’t have too. They isn’t enough research on it and young adults almost never experience any major symptoms.

My dad almost died from Covid, but none of us want or need the vaccine. 

Like I said, it’s all about the money!!


----------



## Damfino

Yeah. 

This is _exactly_ why I refuse to reveal my vaccination status to anyone. One half tells me I'm a selfish, horrible, inhuman jerk who doesn't belong in public if I don't get vaccinated, and the other side says I'm a blind, stupid, oblivious fool if I do get vaccinated. Both sides also keep telling me I'll suffer serious health consequences if I made the wrong choice. 

Somehow I doubt either side is correct. 

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that either Covid or the vaccine is horribly dangerous to the majority of people. I have seen plenty of evidence that Covid is dangerous to some people and that the vaccine is dangerous to a smaller but not completely insignificant number, and both of these risks may change significantly as time goes on. All things in life carry risks. We have to weigh those risks and decide for ourselves which risk we'll take. A risk-free option does not exist. And then we have to respect the fact that others will view the risks differently and make a different choice than we do. It is never our job to condemn them for it--not by calling them selfish, nor by calling them blind, nor any other insulting, inaccurate term. People aren't selfish or immoral for refusing the vaccine any more than they are blind or stupid for taking it. The amount of misinformation being tossed about on _both_ sides of this debate is absolutely appalling.


----------



## Lil Boogie

Goatastic43 said:


> My dad almost died from Covid, but none of us want or need the vaccine.


Its a VERY smart idea not to get it anyway! Because people LITERALLY GET COVID ANYWAY!!!!! I can understand older people but ya know even they still come down with it..... Im happy your dad is okay❤.


----------



## Lil Boogie

People think the Vac "helps keep us safe!" No it doesn't!!! People in my area are starting to realize that the vac DOES NOT WORK and is killing more people here then not! Why are people si blind to thses things???


----------



## Goatastic43

I don’t think your stupid if you get the vac or if you don’t get the vac. 

Everyone is trying to do what they feel is right for themselves. To call someone stupid because they are doing what they feel is best for their well being is wrong. 

What is stupid is when people start dividing themselves based on a vaccine.


----------



## Calistar

Goatastic43 said:


> What is stupid is when people start dividing themselves based on a vaccine.


Yes!!! The most alarming thing about all of this is how completely it's divided people! Within the country, within communities, even within families! People are afraid of their neighbors, people they used to chat with on the street or invite over for a weekend bbq. I know it's a pretty extreme parallel and I'm not implying that it's where we're headed, but I can't help but recall Nazi Germany when I think of how Covid and the vaccine issue has turned people against each other so quickly.

Everyone needs to do what makes them feel safe- that's been my stance all along. If you feel safer getting the vaccine, by all means go for it! If you feel safer not getting it, don't! You shouldn't be condemned for your choice either way.


----------



## ksalvagno

Remember to keep it friendly, keep it fun. Respect other people's opinions. No name calling or putting others down. No personal attacks. This is just a reminder for everyone.


----------



## happybleats

Calistar said:


> Within the country, within communities, even within families! People are afraid of their neighbors, people they used to chat with on the street or invite over for a weekend bbq.


Right there is the biggest effect being Vax or not has on us all. It's splitting people apart. We can debate this matter of getting the jab or not until Jesus returns and we still won't agree. We don't need to change another's mind, just mind our selves. Offer factual information and allow each to decide. Letting this vitus or the vaccines to build a wall between us and love one's or dear friends is allowing it to win no matter your stand. Allowing fear to push others away leaves one alone and isolated, depressed. We need to live our lives in spite of the covid. My daughter and her family flew down from Alaska for Thanksgiving holiday and all got covid. It was not fun but everyone pitched in to take care if them so when their flight home came they were well. A friend and her husband got covid and were so sick they couldn't even make it to the restroom without help. Her sister came and took care of them. She in turn got covid and ended up inbthe hospital. My point is, fear of covid didn't have them hiding. Love had them active in helping the sick even at the expense of getting sick. Be the difference. 
To add a bit of humor..pictured is rhe Christmas Ornament my daughter made for their tree this year.. on the other side it says 2021.


----------



## littleheathens

The divisiveness is so painful. My siblings and parents pretty much vanished from our lives (my sister is a GP/MD).

We've been uninvited to many gatherings because we aren't vaccinated, and probably excluded from more than we know. It's disappointing that our friends are behaving in such a judgmental way, being bullies really, so candidly and easily, as though it's nothing. My teenage son likens it to racism, saying it doesn't compare to what people of color experience but he understands their struggle more intimately now.

It's so nice to hear the people that are still kind and loving to the sick, especially to family and neighbors. I love hearing those stories!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Alberta’s Opposition says the governing United Conservative Party showed hypocrisy by going ahead with a Christmas party a few hours after the health minister strongly encouraged workplaces to cancel holiday gatherings.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

(Bloomberg) -- South Africans contracting Covid-19 in the current fourth wave of infections are 80% less likely to be hospitalized if they catch the *omicron* variant, compared with other strains, according to a study released by the National Institute for Communicable Diseases.
-------------------------------------------------------------
That seems like good news to me.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Goatastic43 said:


> I don’t think your stupid if you get the vac or if you don’t get the vac.
> 
> Everyone is trying to do what they feel is right for themselves. To call someone stupid because they are doing what they feel is best for their well being is wrong.
> 
> What is stupid is when people start dividing themselves based on a vaccine.


Yep that’s what living in a free country is all about. Free choice. Completely agree!

We should just love and support everyone. But that’s definitely not happening in our state. Our family tries to rise above the negative divisive rhetoric and just be kind. Hopefully we will be a positive part of someone’s day.


----------



## Calistar

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Alberta’s Opposition says the governing United Conservative Party showed hypocrisy by going ahead with a Christmas party a few hours after the health minister strongly encouraged workplaces to cancel holiday gatherings.


Thank goodness we don't have any of that blatant hypocrisy with our beloved leaders here in the US! Oh wait.... 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

The more I read (and watch), the more I don't know. 
I wish there was a way to burn the politics off of scientific issues. Like with a flame thrower or something.
Caution: Capital letters used in the header image.






__





Dr. Robert Malone: COVID Shots May Permanently Damage Brain, Heart, Reproductive System, Immunity - Rumble






rumble.com


----------



## happybleats

So scary.


----------



## Damfino

happybleats said:


> Offer factual information and allow each to decide. Letting this vitus or the vaccines to build a wall between us and love one's or dear friends is allowing it to win no matter your stand.


I agreed with your entire post except for the "offer factual information" part. As far as I can tell there has been very little factual information shared in most of the links on this thread. The mainstream media certainly hasn't been disseminating factual information since the beginning of this crisis, but that doesn't make all other sources true. Two opposing things can't both be true, but they can both be lies! 

Personal anecdotes, observations, and opinions are great--those are yours and they belong to you. But sharing "factual information" from outside sources is always risky. A lot of stuff is interesting and can help mold our opinions, but we'd better not be claiming it as fact when we have no way to prove it.


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> The divisiveness is so painful. My siblings and parents pretty much vanished from our lives (my sister is a GP/MD).
> 
> We've been uninvited to many gatherings because we aren't vaccinated, and probably excluded from more than we know. It's disappointing that our friends are behaving in such a judgmental way, being bullies really, so candidly and easily, as though it's nothing. My teenage son likens it to racism, saying it doesn't compare to what people of color experience but he understands their struggle more intimately now.
> 
> It's so nice to hear the people that are still kind and loving to the sick, especially to family and neighbors. I love hearing those stories!


I'm sorry this is happening to you. If the vaccine is as wonderful and effective as we've been told, then no vaccinated person should be afraid of unvaccinated people. That just makes no sense! 

My "I refuse to disclose" stance seems to be working very well for me. It makes it easy for me to be whatever other people want to believe. I don't even have to outright lie (although I have no qualms about that given the ridiculousness of the situation). I just have to figure out where they stand and then pretend like I agree with them. At that point they just draw their own conclusions and I'm fine with that. If we start needing vaccination cards to go places I'll have one, but those who know me well will probably question whether it's authentic.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Alberta’s Opposition says the governing United Conservative Party showed hypocrisy by going ahead with a Christmas party a few hours after the health minister strongly encouraged workplaces to cancel holiday gatherings.


Don't you love the "rules for thee and not for me" attitude our authorities and media pundits have displayed throughout this crisis?


----------



## Goats Rock

I am still confused......(story of my life!)


----------



## luvmyherd

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> There must be better entertainment you can find for a party.


Touche!
Ya know, contests to see who could get the probe the farthest up their nose. 
A prize for the fastest results.
Extra dessert if you don't sneeze.
Things like that.

I did make party favors out of little bottles of hand sanitizer.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

My family is having a Covid New Year. Of the 13 of us, we are down to two who haven't shown symptoms yet.

I've been taking preventatives for a couple months now. I was certain that my allergies were just really bad. Now my kids are teasing me that I'm allergic to Covid. My poor daughter-in-law, who is breastfeeding, couldn't take the preventatives and was sick as a dog. She even wrote my son a note of what she wanted for him and the kids if she died, poor thing.

IF the preventatives are what have kept me from getting full on sick, they are well worth it. If the vaccine only lessens symptoms, the preventive seem to have done the same thing for me and I didn't risk negative vaccine outcomes, neither short or long term.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Sorry your family has been hit by Covid. It’s going around definitely in our part of the US and I think it will just be part of the American life moving forward unfortunately. Preventatives are a very good thing for people to have. I completely agree with what you said about them. 

I hope your family gets well soon!


----------



## Chanceosunshine

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Sorry your family has been hit by Covid. It’s going around definitely in our part of the US and I think it will just be part of the American life moving forward unfortunately. Preventatives are a very good thing for people to have. I completely agree with what you said about them.
> 
> I hope your family gets well soon!


Thank you, @Buck Naked Boers. I think it will be part of life from here on out too.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

luvmyherd said:


> Touche!
> Ya know, contests to see who could get the probe the farthest up their nose.
> A prize for the fastest results.
> Extra dessert if you don't sneeze.
> Things like that.
> 
> I did make party favors out of little bottles of hand sanitizer.


I stand corrected. There is a lot of fun to be had with test kits. You sure know how to through a party.
Fun for all!!


----------



## littleheathens

Chanceosunshine said:


> My family is having a Covid New Year. Of the 13 of us, we are down to two who haven't shown symptoms yet.
> 
> I've been taking preventatives for a couple months now. I was certain that my allergies were just really bad. Now my kids are teasing me that I'm allergic to Covid. My poor daughter-in-law, who is breastfeeding, couldn't take the preventatives and was sick as a dog. She even wrote my son a note of what she wanted for him and the kids if she died, poor thing.
> 
> IF the preventatives are what have kept me from getting full on sick, they are well worth it. If the vaccine only lessens symptoms, the preventive seem to have done the same thing for me and I didn't risk negative vaccine outcomes, neither short or long term.


What preventatives are you using? It's rampant here, too, for the vax'd and not. 

Best to you all for a good recovery! Yay for natural immunity! You won't have to worry for a while!


----------



## Chanceosunshine

littleheathens said:


> What preventatives are you using? It's rampant here, too, for the vax'd and not.
> 
> Best to you all for a good recovery! Yay for natural immunity! You won't have to worry for a while!


We were using hydroxychloroquine. It’s a once a week dosing schedule. We’re also using supplements- quercitin, vitamins D and C, & NAC (acetylcysteine). 
Another think that is recommended is a diluted provodone iodine solution (8oz water to 1.5 TBSP 10% provodone iodine) in a nasal aspirator. We would use that after being in crowds or when my husband came home from work. The purpose is to knock down the viral load so that if you get sick you don’t get as sick.

I will be very happy to have the natural immunity for sure.


----------



## Tanya

We all bleed the same. We all sneeze the same. We all breath the same. Soon we will be selling oxyginated air in a bottle to those that are vaccinated. Why? Because nuclear war will destroy the planet before an unvaccinated person will.


----------



## DDFN

Tanya said:


> We all bleed the same. We all sneeze the same. We all breath the same. Soon we will be selling oxyginated air in a bottle to those that are vaccinated. Why? Because nuclear war will destroy the planet before an unvaccinated person will.


I could be wrong but I think they already were selling canned oxygen for athletes. 

Well where I live glows in the dark lol it's local joke because we have the oak ridge atomic waste from making the bombs. Around here yellow cake doesn't mean food.

I wish we could go back before covid started and have the whole world playing nice. Can't we all just get along and be friends? I always hope for world peace and instead ended up with world wide pandemic.


----------



## luvmyherd

Sounds like this is a theme now. Just got a call from my daughter. Her daughter's boyfriend is in the hospital. He went to Hospital for something else but tested positive. So that pretty much means she has it too and could affect them all. We were supposed to spend NYE with the family, but they got exposed during the week, so we cancelled. I am so happy as I just really do not want to get even mildly sick.
My daughter and her son are supposed to return to school tomorrow and have not been able to get tested. According to the CDC they do not have to be tested because they are vaxxed. We will see how that works out.
Our household is lying low and masking up.


----------



## Jessica84

Soooo husbands weekly testing starts this week. Which is fine, but here we go again with that whole half way crap again. He will get tested friday morning. He comes home Friday night. They won’t get the results until Monday some time and he’s back to work on Tuesday. When I first got covid I tested negative. I think it was 2 days later I took another test and was finally testing positive. So how is the way they plan to do it make any sense?! 
My niece does spots at school. The morning of practice or a game the girls have to go in for a test. A few hours later they have the results. Anyone of them tests negative and they ALL go home and the game or practice is off. Now THAT makes sense to me!


----------



## HoosierShadow

Well... I may be having a reaction or complications thanks to the 2nd shot. Something told me not to get vaccinated and now I wish I had listened to my gut feeling.
I got my 2nd shot a week before Thanksgiving and since about 8 or 9 days after the shot I have not felt myself. I've had some crazy and weird symptoms, started with shortness of breath when wearing a mask at work then next day fluttering in my chest - weirdest thing is I couldn't pinpoint where the fluttering was coming from. Then anxious/nervous feeling in my chest, headaches and feeling like crud - she temporarily diagnosed me with anxiety. They've done bloodwork, checked my heart, I've done a week long heart monitor, she had me setup an appt with a GI doctor 2 weeks ago - which I can't even get in until Feb! ugh. I even ended up in the ER a few weeks ago on a Sunday to get checked out after having an apparent anxiety attack. They did even more bloodwork, monitoring, etc.
So far everything has been normal although doctor says my pulse is a little high when I come to her office, but ER said my pulse was fine when I was being monitored and that was by far the worst I've felt.
Liver enzymes on one of four panels slightly elevated.
I had bloodwork prior to the vaccine shots in late Oct and eveyrthing was normal. 

So in the last couple of weeks I notice changes in my symptoms which definitely makes me think this has to be in my stomach. The fluttering or anxious feeling either turns into heartburn or I'll feel like I need to burp but is not an easy task, takes a few minutes and some concentrating, might be followed with a ting of gas feeling in my belly then the fluttering and anxious feeling usually subside.
I have had heartburn a lot despite being on antacid 2x a day, and I know if I miss a pill. If I don't get heartburn I might just feel full or after I eat feel fuller than I feel I should be feeling. It's hard to explain all the symptoms but I just feel 'off.' 
I was doing pretty good the last few days as I've been on vacation since Saturday, but last night I had that flutteirng/spasming feeling, had that urge to finally burp, and was eventually able to fall asleep. This morning woke up with a headache that has lingered all day. Almost feels like a sinus/allergy headache, but same kind of headache I've been getting off and on through all of this.
Thankfully, other than when I get heartburn or headache I'm not in any pain, just uncomfortable. Since I've worked less and now been on vacation I don't feel the anxiety attack type feelings. I stay active around the house. 

I'm hoping the ct scan might give some kind of answer as to what is going on. There has to be answers somewhere, right? I try to hope for the best and not stress myself out worrying about bad stuff. 

I wonder if maybe I'd come in contact and got the virus even though I tested negative? or if the vaccine just messed with an underlying issue? or ? But the timing is very ironic and the ER doctor and nurses agreed that they believe the vaccine is the cause. It's just all very crazy.


----------



## ksalvagno

Try digestive enzymes. Normally you'd take one pill before each meal. I'd suggest taking at least 2 pills before each meal.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

My husband tested positive and will be off of work for ten days, one of his employees is vaccinated and just got his third booster a few weeks ago and tested positive but only has to be off for five days. His employee is half his age and his symptoms are worse than my husband's. His employee also lost work after getting his booster because it made him sick. 

At my husband's work, if you are unvaxxed and just exposed to covid you have to quarantine (exposed means you were within 6' of someone positive for at least 15 minutes). If you are vaxxed and you are exposed, even if you are married to someone who is positive for covid, you don't have to quarantine and you can go to work.

He works for a large Canadian company.

The benefit of getting vaccinated seems to be that you won't be a social pariah anymore. You can still get sick and you're allowed to spread it, but at least you won't be one of the unvaxxed.

We have 7 adults in our little "commune" (3 households all close to each other on 50 acres), five of us tested positive on home tests. My son was told he would have to do a PCR test to be paid to be off of work. My husband also had to do a PCR test for his employer. My husband's test came back positive, my son's PCR test came back negative even though his home test said positive and he's very sick...he clearly has it too. 

For the most part the vaccines don't work, they also cause vaccine injuries, and the tests aren't accurate. But you should trust the science.


----------



## Damfino

HoosierShadow said:


> Well... I may be having a reaction or complications thanks to the 2nd shot. Something told me not to get vaccinated and now I wish I had listened to my gut feeling.
> I got my 2nd shot a week before Thanksgiving and since about 8 or 9 days after the shot I have not felt myself. I've had some crazy and weird symptoms, started with shortness of breath when wearing a mask at work then next day fluttering in my chest - weirdest thing is I couldn't pinpoint where the fluttering was coming from. Then anxious/nervous feeling in my chest, headaches and feeling like crud - she temporarily diagnosed me with anxiety. They've done bloodwork, checked my heart, I've done a week long heart monitor, she had me setup an appt with a GI doctor 2 weeks ago - which I can't even get in until Feb! ugh. I even ended up in the ER a few weeks ago on a Sunday to get checked out after having an apparent anxiety attack. They did even more bloodwork, monitoring, etc.
> So far everything has been normal although doctor says my pulse is a little high when I come to her office, but ER said my pulse was fine when I was being monitored and that was by far the worst I've felt.
> Liver enzymes on one of four panels slightly elevated.
> I had bloodwork prior to the vaccine shots in late Oct and eveyrthing was normal.
> 
> So in the last couple of weeks I notice changes in my symptoms which definitely makes me think this has to be in my stomach. The fluttering or anxious feeling either turns into heartburn or I'll feel like I need to burp but is not an easy task, takes a few minutes and some concentrating, might be followed with a ting of gas feeling in my belly then the fluttering and anxious feeling usually subside.
> I have had heartburn a lot despite being on antacid 2x a day, and I know if I miss a pill. If I don't get heartburn I might just feel full or after I eat feel fuller than I feel I should be feeling. It's hard to explain all the symptoms but I just feel 'off.'
> I was doing pretty good the last few days as I've been on vacation since Saturday, but last night I had that flutteirng/spasming feeling, had that urge to finally burp, and was eventually able to fall asleep. This morning woke up with a headache that has lingered all day. Almost feels like a sinus/allergy headache, but same kind of headache I've been getting off and on through all of this.
> Thankfully, other than when I get heartburn or headache I'm not in any pain, just uncomfortable. Since I've worked less and now been on vacation I don't feel the anxiety attack type feelings. I stay active around the house.
> 
> I'm hoping the ct scan might give some kind of answer as to what is going on. There has to be answers somewhere, right? I try to hope for the best and not stress myself out worrying about bad stuff.
> 
> I wonder if maybe I'd come in contact and got the virus even though I tested negative? or if the vaccine just messed with an underlying issue? or ? But the timing is very ironic and the ER doctor and nurses agreed that they believe the vaccine is the cause. It's just all very crazy.


Your experience is exactly why government should not yet be mandating these brand new vaccines to the general public. There are still too many unknowns about possible side-effects. Hopefully your problem will resolve itself before long.

In my opinion there needs to be a good 5-10 years of clinical trials before a new vaccine can truly be deemed safe and effective enough to be added to mandates, and even then I think mandates should be fairly limited in scope. (Actually, I don't believe in mandates at all, but much like Social Security and other public ills, we let that genie out of the bottle decades ago so there's no point fighting it now.) I think the vaccines are largely safe, but not quite safe enough. I think they are somewhat effective but not nearly effective enough.

And even IF the vaccines were 100% proven to be completely safe and effective, there has not been nearly enough time to establish any kind of public trust in this assertion. Coercing frightened people into doing things against their will only creates resistance, rebellion, friction, stress, anger, and other problems that in this case are probably worse than the virus. Stress is very bad for health, and someone who is stressed out and frightened by the vaccine is going to attribute any and all subsequent health problems to vaccination, whether that's true or not. This completely muddies the waters between real vs. imagined vs. unrelated health problems. Some very real adverse reactions will be dismissed by doctors and scientists as "unrelated" because they already believe the vaccines are safe. On the other hand, people who already believe the vaccines are dangerous are going to see nothing but vaccine-related health problems everywhere they look. Rushing a vaccine through and then adding on mandates before it's thoroughly understood by both scientists and the public has many dangerous consequences, not least of which is the undermining of public faith in the honesty and integrity of scientific institutions.


----------



## Damfino

Tanya said:


> We all bleed the same. We all sneeze the same. We all breath the same. Soon we will be selling oxyginated air in a bottle to those that are vaccinated. Why? Because nuclear war will destroy the planet before an unvaccinated person will.


If it comes to nuclear war, humanity will no longer be concerned about piffling trifles like Covid-19 or one's vaccination status. Nuclear war doesn't care whether you're vaccinated or not, and we'd ALL be needing that bottled oxygen! Hopefully we're not too near the brink of such extreme hostility.


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## Cedarwinds Farm

Damfino said:


> Your experience is exactly why government should not yet be mandating these brand new vaccines to the general public. There are still too many unknowns about possible side-effects. Hopefully your problem will resolve itself before long.
> 
> In my opinion there needs to be a good 5-10 years of clinical trials before a new vaccine can truly be deemed safe and effective enough to be added to mandates, and even then I think mandates should be fairly limited in scope. (Actually, I don't believe in mandates at all, but much like Social Security and other public ills, we let that genie out of the bottle decades ago so there's no point fighting it now.) I think the vaccines are largely safe, but not quite safe enough. I think they are somewhat effective but not nearly effective enough.
> 
> And even IF the vaccines were 100% proven to be completely safe and effective, there has not been nearly enough time to establish any kind of public trust in this assertion. Coercing frightened people into doing things against their will only creates resistance, rebellion, friction, stress, anger, and other problems that in this case are probably worse than the virus. Stress is very bad for health, and someone who is stressed out and frightened by the vaccine is going to attribute any and all subsequent health problems to vaccination, whether that's true or not. This completely muddies the waters between real vs. imagined vs. unrelated health problems. Some very real adverse reactions will be dismissed by doctors and scientists as "unrelated" because they already believe the vaccines are safe. On the other hand, people who already believe the vaccines are dangerous are going to see nothing but vaccine-related health problems everywhere they look. Rushing a vaccine through and then adding on mandates before it's thoroughly understood by both scientists and the public has many dangerous consequences, not least of which is the undermining of public faith in the honesty and integrity of scientific institutions.


Yep!


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## littleheathens

@HoosierShadow 
I'm so sorry you are experiencing a vaccine reaction. Have you reported to VAERS? There are over 20,000 deaths and nearly a million other serious reactions recorded from these vaccines (the most previous # of deaths was swine flu, which ceased production when they approached 50 because "do no harm..." used to mean something). 

I know a couple of people with severe reactions. One got a lot of support from facebook groups and is slowly improving without much medical intervention, as far as I know. I've also seen, as I read through testimonials on Home - No More Silence - Telling Our Stories (I try to read/watch every story, to "listen," but haven't been able to keep up), sometimes people share solutions, diagnoses, or treatments that have helped them. Your symptoms sound right in line with many others sharing their stories there. I'm glad it's not worse for you! And I hope you recover fully. And keep documentation.


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## Goats Rock

My daughter and spouse were here over Christmas- they left early the morning of the 27th. She is vaccinated, spouse (Dean) isn't. New Years eve Dean started feeling ill.
(they live 10 hrs away) Took 2 home Covid tests, both neg. Jan 2 the test came back positive. 

So, should DH and I start panicking? 🥴 He has lung problems. It was 4 days from the 
last time we were near them until the first symptoms. DH is not amused about the entire thing. (to say he is mad would be an understatement...) 

What do you all think?  I'm of the wait and see what happens, don't go anywhere or be by anyone for another few days......It's been 10-1/2 days since we saw them and
I never got closer than a room from Dean. He never coughed, etc.


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## ksalvagno

No. Do you both take vitamin D and vitamin C?


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## DDFN

Hoosier Shadow. So sorry that happened to you . My dad had reactions and we know so many others that have had reactions too. 

Do you have any autoimmune issues you know of? If not maybe the doctors could check you for some. Most of the individuals with reactions have been having underlying autoimmune conditions. Alot of people are afraid to report issues and most medical professionals try to blow off the reactions and push more boosters. 

Please hang in there. A local restaurant had to close because all the employees ended up with covid (my friend has a friend working there).


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## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> @HoosierShadow
> I'm so sorry you are experiencing a vaccine reaction. Have you reported to VAERS? There are over 20,000 deaths and nearly a million other serious reactions recorded from these vaccines (the most previous # of deaths was swine flu, which ceased production when they approached 50 because "do no harm..." used to mean something).


Only 20,000 deaths? Is that really it? Man... the vaccines are way safer than I realized. With over 200 million people vaccinated in the U.S., that means the chance of death is less than 1/10,000. That's a pretty darn good track record for any vaccine. A million other non-death reactions means there's half a percent chance of having an adverse reaction. I think that's pretty standard for any vaccine, including all the ones we got as children. However, I'll still be interested to see what (if any) long-term effects crop up.


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## Goats Rock

ksalvagno- I take a women's 1 a day multivitamin. DH takes the Men's 1 a day, and zinc and vit C. (he had both shots). too soon for booster...


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## ksalvagno

Vitamin D at 5000 IU per day is really good to take for us here in Ohio. Also has been shown that you are more susceptible to Covid with a vitamin D deficiency.


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## DDFN

One thing if taking vitamin d remember it will increase your calcium levels (it makes you absorb calcium better). I would suggest having your levels testing periodically. I had to lower my vitamin d intake for this exact reason.


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## Moers kiko boars

Most places are only doing quarantine of people for 10 days now. So, unless you are running a temp. I would say you were safe from that exposure.


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## littleheathens

VAERS is CDC's reporting system. CDC estimates that their reported and published numbers represent 1/100th of the actual adverse reaction cases...though its suspect if covid vaccine adverse reactions would follow historical trends IMO. 2,000,000 deaths seems too high though. I'm seeing logical people use 10x reported as closer to the actual numbers, so 200,000 deaths. We'll never know. Still, 20,000 (mostly healthy) lives lost is A LOT, especially when the next closest vaccine was stopped before 50.

It's pretty coincidental-weird that this week US reaches 1,000,000 positive cases daily, AND 1,000,000 VAERS cases.

@Damfino


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## littleheathens

We have a natural health clinic nearby that I've had great experiences with. This is what they sent in their newsletter in Sept 2021:
*What is my main treatment to be ready for Covid?*

*Vitamin D - 5,000IU’s per day

*Vitamin C - 1000mgs per day

*Zinc - 25-50mgs per day (with food to prevent nausea)

*Melatonin - 3-5mgs per day (before bed)

*Some type of immune system formula with some of the following “goodies.”

Elderberry, mushrooms, vitamin A, colostrum, astragalus, etc. (examples include - immuno-tone (designs for health), vira-cid (orthomolecular), wellness-formula (Source Naturals))


*What is my main treatment for the onset of Covid (start immediately)?*

Vitamin D - take 10,000IU’s per day for 3 days, then back to 5,000IU’s per day

Vitamin C - take at least 2000-3000mgs per day

Zinc - 50-100mgs per day

Melatonin - 3-5mgs per day

Some type of immune wellness formula (see above) 2 capsules, 3 times daily

Add: NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) 2000-2500mgs per day (especially if any lung involvement)

Colloidal silver (silvercillin, sovereign silver, argentyn 23) - 1 tsp (or 3-4 droppers) 5-6x daily

Fish oil - 1-2 capsules, 2-3 times daily (or aspirin) to decrease inflammation and prevent clotting
Prescription: Ivermectin - .2-.4mgs/kg, 1 time daily x 6 days (best started immediately)

Possibly antibiotics and nebulized steroids, depending on severity
------------------
If you are unfamiliar with immune system goodies referenced, try finding an elderberry tincture or astragalus tincture. We buy bags from Frontier of organic, dried, sliced astragalus or dried elderberries and steep it in vodka for tincture. It's as easy as can be. If you don't want to do that, I've put little bowls of shredded or chopped/dried astragalus root out and everyone in my house nibbles on them. Fresh and raw garlic, as any goat can tell you, is mighty effective, too! 
@Goats Rock


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## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> VAERS is CDC's reporting system. CDC estimates that their reported and published numbers represent 1/100th of the actual adverse reaction cases...though its suspect if covid vaccine adverse reactions would follow historical trends IMO. 2,000,000 deaths seems too high though. I'm seeing logical people use 10x reported as closer to the actual numbers, so 200,000 deaths. We'll never know. Still, 20,000 (mostly healthy) lives lost is A LOT, especially when the next closest vaccine was stopped before 50.
> 
> It's pretty coincidental-weird that this week US reaches 1,000,000 positive cases daily, AND 1,000,000 VAERS cases.
> 
> @Damfino


You're right--there's no possible way 2 million people have died from Covid vaccines. If it had a 1% fatality rate it would never have got past the testing phase. One major reason the swine flu vaccine was stopped was because the swine flu burnt itself out before the vaccine could even be distributed. There virus mutated, other strains took over by the next flu season, and the vaccine quickly became worthless. I remember that being the case. The vaccine was just too late on the scene. We also have to remember that not nearly as many doses were given of the swine flu vaccine. Denominators are very important. If it's 50 deaths out of 10,000 vaccines administered, that is obviously way too high a death rate. We also have to factor in the seriousness of the disease. Covid is more serious than flu for large portions of the population. Those who are at higher risk from Covid may be wise to get the vaccine. It's a balance of risks. Children are at very low risk from Covid so pushing vaccines on them seems completely nonsensical, On the other hand, encouraging them for older, heavy, or otherwise immune compromised people may be exactly the right thing to do. Is the vaccine risky? Perhaps. But for a lot of people, getting Covid is far riskier.


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## littleheathens

Denominators are important only if you are evaluating percentages, which is all "public health" cares about. If evaluating individuals' health, it is more important to know that no other vaccine came close to killing so many people. If these vaccines were stopped before they killed 50 people, like swine flu, no matter how many doses were administered, that would be 19,950 fewer deaths. That's an old number, surely higher now, plus the one million unheard and severely injured that have lost jobs (ironically=mandates), are paralyzed, have GBS, tremor so badly they cannot walk, etc, etc, etc. -whose lives, they often feel, are ruined.


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## Damfino

Public health only looks at percentages because percentages are the only thing that actually matters to public health. In raw numbers, a LOT of people have died or been severely affected by every single vaccine ever produced throughout history, but how does that compare to the numbers these vaccines have saved? How many kids have died or been paralyzed from the polio vaccine in the decades since it was introduced? In raw numbers, tons! But how many lives did those polio vaccines save from death and paralysis from the disease? Tons more! For public health, we MUST look at percentages and denominators. 

If the Covid vaccine hadn't come on the scene, 20,000 people might still be alive, but that's a pretty big assumption. How many of those would have died if they'd gotten Covid instead? Probably quite a few. And how many others, whom the vaccine did not adversely affect and for whom the vaccine helped protect them from Covid, would have died without the vaccine? Probably a whole lot more than 20,000! Once again, it's a balance of risks. It's sad that a few people die in car accidents every year _because_ they were wearing seat belts (yes, it happens!). But this not an argument against seat belts. How many people did seat belts save? 

I'm not saying the Covid vaccine is great. I think it has a long way to go, particularly in effectiveness. But a 0.01% fatality rate is still excellent compared to other vaccines we are long familiar with. Covid has a much, much higher fatality rate than 0.01%, making the vaccine definitively safer than catching Covid for a very large percentage of the U.S. population. The fact that we're seeing so many deaths associated with the vaccine this year is because of the absolutely _enormous_ number of people being vaccinated at once. A vaccine rollout this huge has never happened in the history of mankind. We have to expect that there will be huge numbers of adverse reactions to go with that, because unfortunately there's not a single medical invention on the planet that doesn't adversely affect some small percentage of the population who uses it. Unfortunately, there's simply no avoiding it. 

Of all things, my grandmother almost died from a single aspirin tablet. It lodged in a fold of her stomach where it couldn't dissolve and it burned a hole right through. Good argument for banning aspirin? I think not.


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## toth boer goats

The vaccine has killed or harmed many people. More people have died from the vaccine, than by getting actual Covid.


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## Damfino

I don't believe that at all. In fact, In fact, _I disagree with it in the strongest possible terms._


toth boer goats said:


> The vaccine has killed or harmed many people.


Possibly. But then, so has every other kind of medication, vaccination, and modern invention such as cars, guns, flat screen televisions, trampolines, and 1000 other things that most of us consider nice things to have and that we definitely don't want banned.



toth boer goats said:


> More people have died from the vaccine, than by getting actual Covid.


There is not one shred of credible evidence that the vaccine has killed more people than Covid. Even personal, anecdotal observation annihilates that statement. I consider myself cautiously skeptical of the Covid vaccine for several reasons, but that doesn't mean the risk of getting Covid is so low as to be no real threat to anyone.


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## Jessica84

Lol comparing apples to oranges really makes no sense. I mean I could say the vaccine has harmed and killed more people then a yellow belly sap sucker has, but doing so doesn’t chance any facts. But if you want to compare your missing a big one to compare. No one is trying to force us to drive a car, buy a gun or jump on a trampoline. That is not the case with the vaccine as we all well know. Those things also come with a long list of proven warnings. I know if I pick up my gun what the chances are or me or someone else getting hurt is. They are keeping those things in the dark with the vaccine. 
And really with so much in the dark, as well as unknown with side effects who knows if it has caused more deaths then covid? And that’s not taking into account those that have died of heart attacks or anything else and was labeled as passing from covid. 
The vaccine might be safer then a lot of us are thinking it is, but who knows! Again this whole deal is such a half attempt at anything and they won’t take any side effects serious and share with the world


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## DDFN

Well One of the biggest problems is they are trying to hide the actually information and the only true information that is released is from people sharing first hand situations or that of family members. It is a crazy time that we are living in and I wish we had more control of true data being released to the public.


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## Moers kiko boars

I think.a past president said it best. FAKE NEWS! The public is kept in the confused state. Because if we ever joined forces, the public would take over the failing money hungry government. Just as we did in the past. They are depending on people stirring the pot to attempt to sound intelligent...but.lets face it. Technically tons is not a proven number. 
And thats why the Fake News Wins..it plays on the individuals weakness to sound like they might know something a regular person wouldnt. They dont. The real Covid numbers wont do anyone any good. You would make the choice you make for whatever reason. You take risks either way you go. If you choose the vaccine, dont complain about the side effects. Your choice. If you choose to stay Vac free...dont complain about getting the covid. Its really simple. Your Choice. No one is Stupid, ludicrous, or any other big word you look up in the dictionary. We all make our choice. We prefer our choice. Thats all that matters. We HAVE A CHOICE! Thank GOD!


----------



## Damfino

Jessica84 said:


> But if you want to compare your missing a big one to compare. No one is trying to force us to drive a car, buy a gun or jump on a trampoline. That is not the case with the vaccine as we all well know.


Absolutely true, which is why I am staunchly opposed to forcing people to vaccinate. But then, I am also staunchly opposed to most, if not all, federal laws (yes, I know what I just said and it's not very patriotic). I believe Social Security is a far greater evil than any vaccination, and yet our federal government forces every citizen to be a part of this system. We conform despite the fact that it is extremely dangerous to individual liberty. We might be angry that the government is trying to force people to vaccinate, but we should never be surprised by it. Federally mandated vaccines have been around for more than 100 years, including for vaccines that were quite new at the time and had lots of side-effects. After 100 years of curtailing individual freedom for the "public good," why should the government expect pushback now? And why should we be surprised at a loss of liberty that we never had to begin with? 



Jessica84 said:


> And really with so much in the dark, as well as unknown with side effects who knows if it has caused more deaths then covid? And that’s not taking into account those that have died of heart attacks or anything else and was labeled as passing from covid.


Well, I know that Covid has caused more deaths than the vaccine. At this point, that much is irrefutable. We can see Covid deaths happening right in front of us in our communities--not many in my own community, but they're there. Not so easy to count vaccination deaths since I personally don't know of anyone in my community who has died (or even suffered an ill effect so far) from the vaccine. Covid deaths are certainly being overcounted for reasons of profit, but we did have more than half a million more deaths in 2020 than were expected. They had to come from somewhere, and it wasn't all just random heart attacks unrelated to Covid. (Covid does cause heart attacks by the way.) 



Jessica84 said:


> The vaccine might be safer then a lot of us are thinking it is, but who knows! Again this whole deal is such a half attempt at anything and they won’t take any side effects serious and share with the world


There is definitely an agenda within mainstream media to downplay vaccine deaths and side-effects while over-dramatizing Covid deaths. I'm never going to deny that. But reacting by slingshotting to the opposite extreme and saying that the vaccine is lethal and Covid deaths aren't real is not a reasonable or logical response. The fact that there are Covid alarmists in mainstream media does not make vaccine alarmists in non-mainstream media credible. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Two opposing things can't both be true, but both can be false.


----------



## Damfino

DDFN said:


> Well One of the biggest problems is they are trying to hide the actually information and the only true information that is released is from people sharing first hand situations or that of family members. It is a crazy time that we are living in and I wish we had more control of true data being released to the public.


My first-hand experience is that although Covid is not particularly deadly or dangerous to most people, it's still more deadly and dangerous than the vaccine (so far). Many of the people I know are vaccinated by now. Many people I know also had Covid sometime in the last two years (some of them twice now). All recovered but had worse effects from Covid than any one had from the vaccine. Some would have died if not for hospitals and modern medicine (which, like the vaccines, also carries dangerous and deadly side-effects but is sometimes necessary to preserve life). I know one person who had long-term side-effects from Covid and was able to recover after they were vaccinated. Why? Who knows, but that's how it worked out for them and I'm happy that it did. 

The problem with data is always who is in control of it, and that actually includes ourselves. I must ask myself, if I had all the true data, would my own biases prevent me from believing it or interpreting it correctly? If I didn't like the data I saw, would I still be willing to share it honestly with others, perhaps having to admit I was wrong in the process? Truth is a very tricky thing, and our own prejudices often cloud how we interpret it. I don't think most people lie intentionally. But our perspective can warp the truth to the point where it is a lie, and since we believe it, we firmly believe we are telling the truth and all other information becomes lies. It's a very human tendency which unfortunately is amplified by the speed with which information is spread these days.


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## littleheathens

There's no such thing as "public health" with 45% of Americans obese. It's all moot, an impossible dream. You can't inject health. 

BUT GOOD NEWS! A WIN FOR TRANSPARENCY! This is HUGE because all scientists will actually be able to review and analyze the data within the next year!!! The FDA had requested releasing vaccine data at the rate of 500 pages a month, which would take almost 76 years. A federal judge told them to hire more people and get it done at the rate of 55,000 a month. 








‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs


Score one for transparency.




www.reuters.com





And this is about the dumbest waste of time and bread imaginable. Makes the derogatory term "sheeple" so much more apropos. Sheep, Goats Dip Into COVID Vaccine Debate With Giant Syringe Formation


----------



## Damfino

Moers kiko boars said:


> I think.a past president said it best. FAKE NEWS! The public is kept in the confused state. Because if we ever joined forces, the public would take over the failing money hungry government. Just as we did in the past.


News has frequently been fake since the days of town criers, and the public has usually been in a confused state since time began. If a confused public joins forces and topples the government, I seriously doubt they will replace it with a better system. Why? Because humans are corrupt by nature and the slave that makes himself king is usually a worse oppressor than the king he deposed. That's my rather cynical view of world politics and human nature. 



Moers kiko boars said:


> They are depending on people stirring the pot to attempt to sound intelligent...but.lets face it. Technically tons is not a proven number.


I often wonder who "They" are and if They really have as much control as some people think, or if They are as confused as anyone. What if the reality is that no one is actually in charge of anything, and that's why we're in the muddled state we're in? 



Moers kiko boars said:


> And thats why the Fake News Wins..it plays on the individuals weakness to sound like they might know something a regular person wouldnt. They dont. The real Covid numbers wont do anyone any good. You would make the choice you make for whatever reason. You take risks either way you go. If you choose the vaccine, dont complain about the side effects. Your choice. If you choose to stay Vac free...dont complain about getting the covid. Its really simple. Your Choice. No one is Stupid, ludicrous, or any other big word you look up in the dictionary. We all make our choice. We prefer our choice. Thats all that matters. We HAVE A CHOICE! Thank GOD!


Fake news always wins. It's far more sensational, salacious, and titillating than the hum-drum truth we find hidden somewhere between polar extremes. Fake news gets us excited and worked up and makes our blood boil so we can feel truly angry, outraged, and alive! 

I agree 110% with your statement though. "You pays your money and you makes your choice." Everything in life is a gamble and nothing is guaranteed. 

As for whether we still have choices, well... I'm a cynic. I see an appalling tendency for U.S. citizens to worship an illusion of freedom we never actually had.


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## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> There's no such thing as "public health" with 45% of Americans obese. It's all moot, an impossible dream. You can't inject health.


Ain't that the truth! 



littleheathens said:


> BUT GOOD NEWS! A WIN FOR TRANSPARENCY! This is HUGE because all scientists will actually be able to review and analyze the data within the next year!!! The FDA had requested releasing vaccine data at the rate of 500 pages a month, which would take almost 76 years. A federal judge told them to hire more people and get it done at the rate of 55,000 a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs
> 
> 
> Score one for transparency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com


I heard about this case and I've been wondering if the judge would force the FDA to speed things up. Good for Judge Pittman! 



littleheathens said:


> And this is about the dumbest waste of time and bread imaginable. Makes the derogatory term "sheeple" so much more apropos. Sheep, Goats Dip Into COVID Vaccine Debate With Giant Syringe Formation


Oh, I don't know. It made me chuckle, and inducing laughter is never, ever a waste of time or resources.


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## DDFN

Damfino said:


> My first-hand experience is that although Covid is not particularly deadly or dangerous to most people, it's still more deadly and dangerous than the vaccine (so far). Many of the people I know are vaccinated by now. Many people I know also had Covid sometime in the last two years (some of them twice now). All recovered but had worse effects from Covid than any one had from the vaccine. Some would have died if not for hospitals and modern medicine (which, like the vaccines, also carries dangerous and deadly side-effects but is sometimes necessary to preserve life). I know one person who had long-term side-effects from Covid and was able to recover after they were vaccinated. Why? Who knows, but that's how it worked out for them and I'm happy that it did.
> 
> The problem with data is always who is in control of it, and that actually includes ourselves. I must ask myself, if I had all the true data, would my own biases prevent me from believing it or interpreting it correctly? If I didn't like the data I saw, would I still be willing to share it honestly with others, perhaps having to admit I was wrong in the process? Truth is a very tricky thing, and our own prejudices often cloud how we interpret it. I don't think most people lie intentionally. But our perspective can warp the truth to the point where it is a lie, and since we believe it, we firmly believe we are telling the truth and all other information becomes lies. It's a very human tendency which unfortunately is amplified by the speed with which information is spread these days.


I used to work in a pathology lab for a few years and it's amazing how data is restricted. I was also an astrophysics researcher for 3 years during college. I am one that likes to view every aspect of a situation and listen to all sides and not use my personal feelings to influence my decisions. Basically I disproved one of my own theories in college. You have to be open minded to everything and can not let personal feelings alter the data. That being said I have my own personal feelings but listen to all the known accurate information, but limited trust on there not being accurate evidence based data puts everything in a large gray area. 

I still lean to the genetics and blood types playing a large role in the individuals ability to respond to the virus and even the vaccine..


----------



## Damfino

I like to disprove my own theories too! I agree that there is no good reason to trust that we have accurate information regarding anything related to Covid--not from EITHER side of the debate! I also agree that genetics plays a heavy role in health outcomes of all kinds--whether with a virus, a vaccine, or a medication. That has been true long before Covid and it will continue to be true when Covid is ancient history.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

DDFN said:


> I still lean to the genetics and blood types playing a large role in the individuals ability to respond to the virus and even the vaccine..


There are 14 of us on our farm. Three of us are A+ blood types. We are the ones that got sick first. Our spouses got sick approximately three days later, they’re O+ blood type.

Today my husband’s boss tested positive. He is triple vaxxed and this is the second time he’s had Covid.


----------



## toth boer goats

We are being asked each time to get another jab and another jab for this and that variant, but look at it this way.
Why are those vaccinated still coming down with Covid?
Vaccines are suppose to protect
us from getting whatever we are being vaccinated for or at least lesson the blow severely. 
However, the Covid vaccine is not doing what it is intended to do.
Like others before it. A big difference.

Getting the Covid vaccine, lessons our immunity to Covid and we get it anyway. Doesn’t make sense. 

I believe you should have a choice, but when a vaccine is being forced on us with many deaths and injuries from it, that is not something I recommend.


----------



## toth boer goats

Damfino said:


> I don't believe that at all. In fact, I'm just going to say it--it is an absolutely _ludicrous_ assertion.
> 
> 
> Possibly. But then, so has every other kind of medication, vaccination, and modern invention such as cars, guns, flat screen televisions, trampolines, and 1000 other things that most of us consider nice things to have and that we definitely don't want banned.
> 
> 
> 
> That is an absolutely ludicrous assertion. There is not one shred of credible evidence that the vaccine has killed more people than Covid. Even personal, anecdotal observation annihilates that statement. I consider myself cautiously skeptical of the Covid vaccine for several reasons, but that doesn't mean the risk of getting Covid is so low as to be no real threat to anyone.


This is not friendly or acceptable to attack in such a way.

The vaccine has not been tested before being unleashed to the public. 
The side effects are not safe and shouldn’t be forced on anyone. 
The vaccine doesn’t do what it is suppose to do, by protecting us against Covid. 

Many lives have been effected by the lies of it being safe, it is not. 
It cuts down the immunity needed to help our bodies fight against Covid.
This is just my opinion. 

We can agree to disagree.


----------



## littleheathens

I agree, Pam. Just like in mainstream media, we must keep our eyes open to see the forest through the trees on this forum. And aggressive/insulting language like damfino's is entirely inappropriate and unnecessary in order to express her opinion.

CDC, Pfizer- all of them- acknowledged many months ago (before OMG-ICRON) that the vaccine lessens symptoms and doesn't prevent transmission. It's like wearing a life jacket- it protects you, not anyone else.

If the rebuttal to this is "but hospitals are overwhelmed and it's all unvaccinated people filling the beds and dying," or like the president says, "it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated." That's just propaganda and NOT scientific. There are numerous high level health experts saying that simply isn't what is happening in the hospitals. I have a friend that worked for Epic Systems (until he was fired for not getting vaccinated, he managed 500 people and his manager was the VP), an ENORMOUS healthcare software company near me. He shared a story with me about how their clients were clueless as to how to report the information media and gov't expected of them so they fudged their way through it. They were busy helping sick people and NOT hiring statisticians to create consumable data. He also worked directly with CDC in the early days, because they, too, did not know how to gather, record or share data. All those numbers- xxx died today, xxxx beds available, xxx % positive is all hogwash. It is still hogwash. None of these clinics and hospitals in "hotspots" around the country could even keep track of how many tests they administered in a day. He also said this:
"I remember asking our support lead for Admission/Discharge/Transfer product (basically the team that lives and breathes info around hospital beds) if the number looked high.
He told me that many hospitals run at 97% capacity anyway so it didn't surprise him when he saw the number near 100%."

Makes sense, right? Hospitals make a TON of money...I know a lot of women who went in to give birth and had to wait for a bed to open up, waiting rooms are always full. We wait. I've been writhing in pain and vomiting, waiting for a bed. They don't make money and operate on the idea that they should have 20-30%, even 10% unused space or equipment. That's a sinking ship, economically. A full hospital makes money and functions; it's totally normal.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> I like to disprove my own theories too! I agree that there is no good reason to trust that we have accurate information regarding anything related to Covid--not from EITHER side of the debate! I also agree that genetics plays a heavy role in health outcomes of all kinds--whether with a virus, a vaccine, or a medication. That has been true long before Covid and it will continue to be true when Covid is ancient history.


I feel we could of been great friends in college. Lol some of the other students in the department thought I was a failure for disproving mt own stuff. I wohld alwaus tell them no, I would of been a failure if I had not listened to the data or if I had given up after disproving it. Which I did neither and even presented on why I was so wrong. 

All the data I have seen on covid shows that type A get sick easier or worse than blood type O. But if I remember one of the articles I read type O blood was having more serious reactions to the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.


----------



## DDFN

Chanceosunshine said:


> There are 14 of us on our farm. Three of us are A+ blood types. We are the ones that got sick first. Our spouses got sick approximately three days later, they’re O+ blood type.
> 
> Today my husband’s boss tested positive. He is triple vaxxed and this is the second time he’s had Covid.


Everything I have seen suggests that type A gets covid easier /worse than type O. But curious did your family members with type O get less sick or recover faster?

I had a friend last year that had covid at least 5 times, they were type A. I have also seen friends and coworkers fully vaccinated even with additional boosters that keep getting covid. 

Knock on wood I have worked non stop through this pandemic as a teacher and have type O and have not once got covid even when exposed to a positive case. I have done the blood tests to verify this as I do not trust the rapid test results. Have a friend that's in a medical office run tests on her patients and had to use 2 snap tests one showed negative and went to get another one because they were shocked it showed neg. Got another one from a previous batch shipment it showed positive (same sample). They sent off the pcr and it came back positive too. They noticed too many of the new tests still showing negative results when they were about 85% sure the people had covid.

I still don't understand why they let covid positive people still work if they have been vaccinated when we all known they can still spread it and they don't even require them to wear masks!

Also another friend works for a big medical company (will not say name) and they are still forcing all covid positive staff to work while sick. So go to the hospital for routine surgeries or having a baby and be exposed to covid!

My aunt was forced to work LandD when her husband was sick with covid and they loved in the same house and she had to care for him. HR told her she had to work until she tested positive.


----------



## DDFN

toth boer goats said:


> We are being asked each time to get another jab and another jab for this and that variant, but look at it this way.
> Why are those vaccinated still coming down with Covid?
> Vaccines are suppose to protect
> us from getting whatever we are being vaccinated for or at least lesson the blow severely.
> However, the Covid vaccine is not doing what it is intended to do.
> Like others before it. A big difference.
> 
> Getting the Covid vaccine, lessons our immunity to Covid and we get it anyway. Doesn’t make sense.
> 
> I believe you should have a choice, but when a vaccine is being forced on us with many deaths and injuries from it, that is not something I recommend.


Vaccines are suppose to protect us but one thing I said from the beginning is they need to keep adjusting the vaccine for the New strains. The vaccines they keep giving as boosters are not going to work against the new mutations. My sister was a nurse before she had to quit for disability and she does nothing but argue with me about how all the unvaccinated are the problem. 

Mind you I am an unvaccinated because of health issues it was not in my best interest to take the shots. My dad did and has suffered ever since having them. My dad and myself are very much alike in our medical issues. So my sister basically puts me down calling me a part of the problem when I am the only one working out of my family (excluding the husband, long story but we don't count his income for taking care of stuff). If I was to have a bad reaction to the shots and could not work many people and animal would be impacted etc including my sister. 

It's complicated here.


----------



## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> This is not friendly or acceptable to attack in such a way.
> 
> The vaccine has not been tested before being unleashed to the public.
> The side effects are not safe and shouldn’t be forced on anyone.
> The vaccine doesn’t do what it is suppose to do, by protecting us against Covid.
> 
> Many lives have been effected by the lies of it being safe, it is not.
> It cuts down the immunity needed to help our bodies fight against Covid.
> This is just my opinion.
> 
> We can agree to disagree.


I apologize for sounding confrontational. I did not mean to offend--I only meant to disagree in very strong terms. 

My tone might have been out of line, but you presented a controversial opinion as though it were settled fact, and that also is not ok. In this case the statement was also quite offensive and hurtful toward those who have lost loved ones to Covid, and toward those who are vaccinated and have encouraged others to be vaccinated in good faith. What you said was not friendly either, and I hope you understand that. Nevertheless, I apologize for my tone. 

I like the qualifier you added this time: "This is just my opinion." 
It wasn't there last time and that got my hackles up. 

We all have opinions and those opinions don't all have to agree. However, we should do our best to make it clear that our point of view is philosophical--not scientific--unless we can actually bring clear and established science to the table, which I don't think is possible in this particular case.


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> He told me that many hospitals run at 97% capacity anyway so it didn't surprise him when he saw the number near 100%."
> 
> Makes sense, right? Hospitals make a TON of money...I know a lot of women who went in to give birth and had to wait for a bed to open up, waiting rooms are always full. We wait. I've been writhing in pain and vomiting, waiting for a bed. They don't make money and operate on the idea that they should have 20-30%, even 10% unused space or equipment. That's a sinking ship, economically. A full hospital makes money and functions; it's totally normal.


This is absolutely correct and it's something I've been bothered by in media coverage of the pandemic. It's like the media expects hospitals and morgues to have loads of extra capacity just sitting around waiting for a crisis to occur. Yeah right! In a typical hospital, just one bus accident or car pileup is going to have them scrambling to find beds and enough doctors, nurses, etc. to take care of the overflow. Having excess patients for two or three weeks in a row is really going to mess things up, but it doesn't mean that people are necessarily dying like flies. It just means the hospital's narrow margin was exceeded. 

It's the same with morgues. The media loves it when a morgue or hospital has to hire a freezer truck to stack bodies in, but even having a handful of extra bodies to deal with is going to require a freezer truck. It's not like morgues operate with 50 empty bays all the time. If you only have 3 extra bays on average, having 5 extra bodies come in one day is going to require a freezer truck for the two you didn't have room for. If you have a week or two of excess deaths, even if it's only a small bump, the backlog piles up in a hurry. Combine that with even a small staffing shortage from a handful of employees getting sick, the backlog piles up even more.


----------



## toth boer goats

Damfino said:


> I apologize for sounding confrontational. I did not mean to offend--I only meant to disagree in very strong terms.
> 
> My tone might have been out of line, but you presented a controversial opinion as though it were settled fact, and that also is not ok. In this case the statement was also quite offensive and hurtful toward those who have lost loved ones to Covid, and toward those who are vaccinated and have encouraged others to be vaccinated in good faith. What you said was not friendly either, and I hope you understand that. Nevertheless, I apologize for my tone.
> 
> I like the qualifier you added this time: "This is just my opinion."
> It wasn't there last time and that got my hackles up.
> 
> We all have opinions and those opinions don't all have to agree. However, we should do our best to make it clear that our point of view is philosophical--not scientific--unless we can actually bring clear and established science to the table, which I don't think is possible in this particular case.


 This is what I found on the subject, everyone can read from it and decide for themselves.
We all have our own minds and can check out things for ourselves. 
Always investigate for yourselves before you decide.








Pandemic of the Vaccinated – Latest PHE Report reveals the vaccinated account for 70% of Covid-19 deaths since February


BY DAILY EXPOSE ON SEPTEMBER 5, 2021 • Listen Now Because of the threats now being made to give an experimental Covid-19 injection to children against the advice of the JCVI, and the confirmation …




rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> This is absolutely correct and it's something I've been bothered by in media coverage of the pandemic. It's like the media expects hospitals and morgues to have loads of extra capacity just sitting around waiting for a crisis to occur. Yeah right! In a typical hospital, just one bus accident or car pileup is going to have them scrambling to find beds and enough doctors, nurses, etc. to take care of the overflow. Having excess patients for two or three weeks in a row is really going to mess things up, but it doesn't mean that people are necessarily dying like flies. It just means the hospital's narrow margin was exceeded.
> 
> It's the same with morgues. The media loves it when a morgue or hospital has to hire a freezer truck to stack bodies in, but even having a handful of extra bodies to deal with is going to require a freezer truck. It's not like morgues operate with 50 empty bays all the time. If you only have 3 extra bays on average, having 5 extra bodies come in one day is going to require a freezer truck for the two you didn't have room for. If you have a week or two of excess deaths, even if it's only a small bump, the backlog piles up in a hurry. Combine that with even a small staffing shortage from a handful of employees getting sick, the backlog piles up even more.


The pathology lab I worked for we had multiple hospitals we handled. Some had 12 bay morgue and others less than that. I know back then if they needed an autopsy from an individual that died outside of the hospital in most cases they were sent to the funeral home and held there until the autopsy could be arranged and transportation covered to and from. 

One of the biggest things in the beginning was the restrictions on funerals the funeral homes got backed up then the hospitals so yes there was a large void that would of had to been filled for holding bodies. 

Does anyone else remember I think it was new York that made a mass grave disposal the first year of the pandemic? Do I remember this wrong?


----------



## Goats Rock

So, will A- be less likely to get Covid over A+?


----------



## DDFN

Goats Rock said:


> So, will A- be less likely to get Covid over A+?


Yes the negative RH factors were less likely than positive. So A+ more likely to get sick and more likely to die from covid than A-. O was the more resistant blood type and thises that did get sick recovered faster etc.

Here is one of the articles if you are into reading medical research.









Relationship between blood type and outcomes following COVID-19 infection


Since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, a concentrated research effort has been undertaken to elucidate risk factors underlying viral infection, severe illness, and death. Recent studies have investigated the association between blood type and COVID-19 ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## Damfino

DDFN said:


> Yes the negative RH factors were less likely than positive. So A+ more likely to get sick and more likely to die from covid than A-. O was the more resistant blood type and thises that did get sick recovered faster etc.
> 
> Here is one of the articles if you are into reading medical research.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relationship between blood type and outcomes following COVID-19 infection
> 
> 
> Since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, a concentrated research effort has been undertaken to elucidate risk factors underlying viral infection, severe illness, and death. Recent studies have investigated the association between blood type and COVID-19 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


I read with interest last year about blood types affecting Covid outcomes. I think I even read that exact article you linked. I'm sure blood type has an affect, but I wonder how much? It's quite clearly less important than age, health, and weight or we'd see a larger spectrum of people dying in all age, health, and weight groups whose only common trait was blood type. But it does certainly make one wonder if different treatments are more or less effective for people of different blood types. Sex plays strongly into outcomes as well. It seems women are more likely to get sick with Covid but men are more likely to die from it. I wonder how much difference there is between male and female responses to the vaccine as well. So many of our medications are only tested on men because women's bodies are more complex due to hormone fluctuations and the possibility of pregnancy. That has slowly been changing in the last 20-30 years, but testing is still heavily weighted toward men. 

Our bodies are quite intriguing and no matter how much we learn about them, the stuff we know will never be as much as the stuff we don't know.


----------



## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> This is what I found on the subject, everyone can read from it and decide for themselves.
> We all have our own minds and can check out things for ourselves.
> Always investigate for yourselves before you decide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pandemic of the Vaccinated – Latest PHE Report reveals the vaccinated account for 70% of Covid-19 deaths since February
> 
> 
> BY DAILY EXPOSE ON SEPTEMBER 5, 2021 • Listen Now Because of the threats now being made to give an experimental Covid-19 injection to children against the advice of the JCVI, and the confirmation …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com


I read that article when it came out and I'm not a mathematician, but it struck me at first blush that around 90% of adults in the UK were fully vaccinated at the time of its publishing. Of the elderly group most commonly represented in hospital statistics, 95% were fully vaccinated. This leaves precious few unvaccinated people left to get sick or die. If the vaccine didn't work at all, I'd expect 95% of hospitalizations and deaths to be among vaccinated people because that would reflect the same percentage of the country's population. If the vaccinated account for only 70% of the deaths, that would indicate that the vaccine is doing some good, though arguably not nearly enough. Let's say 100% of a population is vaccinated and some still die of Covid. Even if that number is only 10 people out of 100 million, the statistics would show that 100% of Covid deaths were among the vaccinated. If I'm reading that study correctly, that is the fatal flaw in their numbers.


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> I read with interest last year about blood types affecting Covid outcomes. I think I even read that exact article you linked. I'm sure blood type has an affect, but I wonder how much? It's quite clearly less important than age, health, and weight or we'd see a larger spectrum of people dying in all age, health, and weight groups whose only common trait was blood type. But it does certainly make one wonder if different treatments are more or less effective for people of different blood types. Sex plays strongly into outcomes as well. It seems women are more likely to get sick with Covid but men are more likely to die from it. I wonder how much difference there is between male and female responses to the vaccine as well. So many of our medications are only tested on men because women's bodies are more complex due to hormone fluctuations and the possibility of pregnancy. That has slowly been changing in the last 20-30 years, but testing is still heavily weighted toward men.
> 
> Our bodies are quite intriguing and no matter how much we learn about them, the stuff we know will never be as much as the stuff we don't know.


I have heard friends still in the medical field talking about more clotting issues in females than males but haven't seen publish data yet.


----------



## littleheathens

The Highwire has a segment called Jaxen Report that dives deep into current data/studies and does a really nice job picking them apart. I find it fascinating! Last week they talked about, among many other studies, the myocarditis risk (much higher in boys about 12-30) and the 5-10x difference in numbers between big pharma's and reality. There's likely similar reports on the clotting in women- I would think somewhere in their archives this is addressed. I'd be curious to see if there's anything about blood type too.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

DDFN said:


> Everything I have seen suggests that type A gets covid easier /worse than type O. But curious did your family members with type O get less sick or recover faster?


I would say that, yes, the O+ seemed to get milder cases than we A+s and are recovering faster. Symptoms were all over the place though. Both of my A+ daughters-in-law had stomach issues, I did not. Myself and one daughter-in-law have lost our tastes and smell. Half of us got coughs.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

Joe Rogan has a full interview with Dr. Robert Malone. @Mike at Capra Vista posted a short video of him at some point in this thread. He is a credible medical expert. He also had a hand in the creation of mRNA vaccines. It is well worth listening to, as is Rogan's interview with Dr. McCullough. 

Something that Dr. Malone mentioned is that hospitals get paid for patients with positive covid tests, thousands per, and they also get paid for covid deaths, also thousands per. 

When my father-in-law was in the hospital, it became clear that they had no intention of actually helping him get better. They offered him a vent and he turned it down. Aside from that nothing was done for him. My husband asked twice to speak to his doctor and no phone call was ever made...until they removed him from the oxygen and then suddenly TWO doctors found the time to call my husband. 

My poor mother-in-law quit eating. They said they would put a tube in to feed her. Then they said they couldn't because she fought it, so they said they'd put a line into her stomach. Two days went by, and they said they couldn't put the tube in her stomach because she has covid. So they said they put a bigger IV in to deliver more nutrients. Again days went by and nothing. After 9 or 10 days they finally put the tube in her stomach. I guess they couldn't just allow her to starve to death any longer. My mother-in-law is all of 100lbs to begin with. 

Why should they save people when death is incentivized? I know they allowed my father-in-law to die and I believe they were waiting for my mother-in-law to die. They see death all the time, I don't think this is a problem for them to watch anymore.

Another thing that Dr. Malone mentioned is that if someone comes in and he's been in a car accident. If he is swabbed and is positive for covid and then dies, he will be counted as a covid death. And why not?? He's got covid and the hospital gets a covid kickback. Is it any wonder why we have such high covid death rates?


----------



## Chanceosunshine

littleheathens said:


> The Highwire has a segment called Jaxen Report that dives deep into current data/studies and does a really nice job picking them apart. I find it fascinating! Last week they talked about, among many other studies, the myocarditis risk (much higher in boys about 12-30) and the 5-10x difference in numbers between big pharma's and reality. There's likely similar reports on the clotting in women- I would think somewhere in their archives this is addressed. I'd be curious to see if there's anything about blood type too.


I just referenced Dr. Malone in another post. He speaks on the myocarditis risk in the podcast with Joe Rogan. He also mentions that the vaccines are in a lipid form so the vaccine can enter the system. *They are finding that the lipid is going into girls ovaries and causing menses problems. They have cases of older women who are beginning to bleed and younger women who are ceasing menstruation.

*I have brain fog and I can not do Dr. Malone's words justice. I have worded this to the best of my ability at the moment. I highly suggest listening to him.









Before your child is injected, watch Dr. Robert Malone’s statement on child COVID vaccinations


Full Text of Malone Statement My name is Robert Malone, and I am speaking to you as a parent, grandparent, physician and scientist. I don’t usually read from a




globalcovidsummit.org


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Chanceosunshine said:


> Something that Dr. Malone mentioned is that hospitals get paid for patients with positive covid tests, thousands per, and they also get paid for covid deaths, also thousands per.


Coincidentally, I just came across this article:

*Massachusetts will change how it reports COVID-19 hospitalizations next week*

Massachusetts will soon differentiate between whether residents were admitted to the hospital “for” COVID-19 or “with” COVID-19 in the state’s reporting data.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After two years, someone thinks it is important to distinguish between patients suffering from COVID symptoms and those hospitalized for other reasons who test positive.

I've read reports of victims of gun shots being reported as COVID deaths.

Early on I noticed that people who tested positive had only two possible outcomes. They got better or they died, resulting in another COVID death. It was not possible to die of something else once a person was deemed positive.

And some people wonder why some people don't trust the numbers.


----------



## DDFN

Chanceosunshine said:


> I would say that, yes, the O+ seemed to get milder cases than we A+s and are recovering faster. Symptoms were all over the place though. Both of my A+ daughters-in-law had stomach issues, I did not. Myself and one daughter-in-law have lost our tastes and smell. Half of us got coughs.


Ok that sounds pretty much like what i heard locally and have been reading. Sorry you all got it.


----------



## DDFN

Chanceosunshine said:


> Joe Rogan has a full interview with Dr. Robert Malone. @Mike at Capra Vista posted a short video of him at some point in this thread. He is a credible medical expert. He also had a hand in the creation of mRNA vaccines. It is well worth listening to, as is Rogan's interview with Dr. McCullough.
> 
> Something that Dr. Malone mentioned is that hospitals get paid for patients with positive covid tests, thousands per, and they also get paid for covid deaths, also thousands per.
> 
> When my father-in-law was in the hospital, it became clear that they had no intention of actually helping him get better. They offered him a vent and he turned it down. Aside from that nothing was done for him. My husband asked twice to speak to his doctor and no phone call was ever made...until they removed him from the oxygen and then suddenly TWO doctors found the time to call my husband.
> 
> My poor mother-in-law quit eating. They said they would put a tube in to feed her. Then they said they couldn't because she fought it, so they said they'd put a line into her stomach. Two days went by, and they said they couldn't put the tube in her stomach because she has covid. So they said they put a bigger IV in to deliver more nutrients. Again days went by and nothing. After 9 or 10 days they finally put the tube in her stomach. I guess they couldn't just allow her to starve to death any longer. My mother-in-law is all of 100lbs to begin with.
> 
> Why should they save people when death is incentivized? I know they allowed my father-in-law to die and I believe they were waiting for my mother-in-law to die. They see death all the time, I don't think this is a problem for them to watch anymore.
> 
> Another thing that Dr. Malone mentioned is that if someone comes in and he's been in a car accident. If he is swabbed and is positive for covid and then dies, he will be counted as a covid death. And why not?? He's got covid and the hospital gets a covid kickback. Is it any wonder why we have such high covid death rates?


When covid first started an uncle if mine life long smoker was having issues breathing. He had to go into the hospital and they would not let his son or anyone see him or stay with him. They forced him to take multiple covid tests and it kept coming back neg. He kept telling them he was a heavy smoker and they ignore this fact. When they finally decided to check out the chance of cancer he was found out to be near death from lung cancer. He died from lung cancer and they tried to still label it covid . No one but his wife and son got to attend a funeral for him. Sad.


----------



## Damfino

Chanceosunshine said:


> I just referenced Dr. Malone in another post. He speaks on the myocarditis risk in the podcast with Joe Rogan. He also mentions that the vaccines are in a lipid form so the vaccine can enter the system. *They are finding that the lipid is going into girls ovaries and causing menses problems. They have cases of older women who are beginning to bleed and younger women who are ceasing menstruation.
> 
> *I have brain fog and I can not do Dr. Malone's words justice. I have worded this to the best of my ability at the moment. I highly suggest listening to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before your child is injected, watch Dr. Robert Malone’s statement on child COVID vaccinations
> 
> 
> Full Text of Malone Statement My name is Robert Malone, and I am speaking to you as a parent, grandparent, physician and scientist. I don’t usually read from a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalcovidsummit.org


I read the transcript and I agree with some things but I have a very hard time getting past this part: 



> Before you inject your child - a decision that is irreversible - I wanted to let you know the scientific facts about this genetic vaccine, *which is based on the mRNA vaccine technology I created*:
> 
> There are three issues parents need to understand:
> 
> The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins. These proteins often cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs...


The first thing that strikes me here is Dr. Malone's puffed-up claim to creating mRNA vaccine technology. This technology was not created or invented by one person. Many people have had a hand in its creation over the last 30-odd years, some far more than Dr. Malone from what I can tell. I've even personally met one of the men who worked on mRNA technology for a couple of decades. mRNA vaccines are not a one-man show, so when someone lays claim to being THE inventor, I suddenly find myself skeptical. 

His next sentence also does him no credit simply because he provides no proof or even evidence of his claims. He claims that the spike proteins created by the body are "toxic" without any qualifying proof and goes on to say that these proteins "often cause permanent damage" also without offering any qualifying proof or even evidence. He doesn't relay this as his opinion or theory. If he did that I would have a lot more reason to listen to his words as he is obviously a man of learning with a long history of research in mRNA technology. I would love to be able to find him credible. But rather than offer us what he believes is a sound theory based on his years of research, he does exactly what the dishonest mainstream media does--he offers "facts" without substantiation! He tells us something and expects us to believe it without linking to one single substantiating report. 

I am fine with Dr. Malone's next two points. In fact, I 100% agree with them! (But not because of Dr. Malone.) In both points he is offering his expert opinion without injecting any unsubstantiated "facts" that we are simply expected to swallow without question. 

As usual, I would love to believe this guy, but he undermines his own message by doing exactly the same thing I detest mainstream media for doing. He expects me to believe a certain statement is fact without offering one shred of evidence that those facts are correct. I consider myself an equal opportunity skeptic. Therefore I expect those whose theories I agree with to adhere to the same standards I expect from those I disagree with. I honestly don't consider my standards all that high. I wish these people would do better. They'd certainly be more likely to persuade folks like me who feel sidelined by ALL of the narratives.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Coincidentally, I just came across this article:
> 
> *Massachusetts will change how it reports COVID-19 hospitalizations next week*
> 
> Massachusetts will soon differentiate between whether residents were admitted to the hospital “for” COVID-19 or “with” COVID-19 in the state’s reporting data.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> After two years, someone thinks it is important to distinguish between patients suffering from COVID symptoms and those hospitalized for other reasons who test positive.
> 
> I've read reports of victims of gun shots being reported as COVID deaths.
> 
> Early on I noticed that people who tested positive had only two possible outcomes. They got better or they died, resulting in another COVID death. It was not possible to die of something else once a person was deemed positive.
> 
> And some people wonder why some people don't trust the numbers.


I live in Colorado and our governor was one of the first (if not _the_ first) in the country to call for accountability in counting Covid numbers after it was widely reported in early 2020 that a Colorado man who died of alcohol poisoning was listed as a Covid death. Shortly afterwards, Colorado hospitals were required to differentiate between those who died with Covid as opposed to those who died primarily _from_ Covid. I'm sure there is still a lot of corruption and fraud in the reporting, but at least the problem was acknowledged and addressed here from the beginning. 

There is no gain to be had from paying hospitals extra for Covid patients and deaths. This opens the door to widespread fraud and abuse. It should never have been done. The only reason for hospitals to exist is to treat sick people. Whether they're sick from Covid, flu, cancer, salmonella, ebola, or rabies shouldn't matter one bit to how much the patient (or their body) is worth.


----------



## Chanceosunshine

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Coincidentally, I just came across this article:
> 
> *Massachusetts will change how it reports COVID-19 hospitalizations next week*
> 
> Massachusetts will soon differentiate between whether residents were admitted to the hospital “for” COVID-19 or “with” COVID-19 in the state’s reporting data.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> After two years, someone thinks it is important to distinguish between patients suffering from COVID symptoms and those hospitalized for other reasons who test positive.
> 
> I've read reports of victims of gun shots being reported as COVID deaths.
> 
> Early on I noticed that people who tested positive had only two possible outcomes. They got better or they died, resulting in another COVID death. It was not possible to die of something else once a person was deemed positive.
> 
> And some people wonder why some people don't trust the numbers.


Fatal gun shot wounds were the other example he gave as being reported as Covid deaths. Again, if hospitals get money for people who die of Covid why wouldn't they list them that way?


----------



## Chanceosunshine

Damfino said:


> I read the transcript and I agree with some things but I have a very hard time getting past this part:
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing that strikes me here is Dr. Malone's puffed-up claim to creating mRNA vaccine technology. This technology was not created or invented by one person. Many people have had a hand in its creation over the last 30-odd years, some far more than Dr. Malone from what I can tell. I've even personally met one of the men who worked on mRNA technology for a couple of decades. mRNA vaccines are not a one-man show, so when someone lays claim to being THE inventor, I suddenly find myself skeptical.
> 
> His next sentence also does him no credit simply because he provides no proof or even evidence of his claims. He claims that the spike proteins created by the body are "toxic" without any qualifying proof and goes on to say that these proteins "often cause permanent damage" also without offering any qualifying proof or even evidence. He doesn't relay this as his opinion or theory. If he did that I would have a lot more reason to listen to his words as he is obviously a man of learning with a long history of research in mRNA technology. I would love to be able to find him credible. But rather than offer us what he believes is a sound theory based on his years of research, he does exactly what the dishonest mainstream media does--he offers "facts" without substantiation! He tells us something and expects us to believe it without linking to one single substantiating report.
> 
> I am fine with Dr. Malone's next two points. In fact, I 100% agree with them! (But not because of Dr. Malone.) In both points he is offering his expert opinion without injecting any unsubstantiated "facts" that we are simply expected to swallow without question.
> 
> As usual, I would love to believe this guy, but he undermines his own message by doing exactly the same thing I detest mainstream media for doing. He expects me to believe a certain statement is fact without offering one shred of evidence that those facts are correct. I consider myself an equal opportunity skeptic. Therefore I expect those whose theories I agree with to adhere to the same standards I expect from those I disagree with. I honestly don't consider my standards all that high. I wish these people would do better. They'd certainly be more likely to persuade folks like me who feel sidelined by ALL of the narratives.


He claims to own patents to such technology. If that is true it wound't be a puffed up claim. I would suspect you'd have to put a little more research into verifying them than just reading the transcript and declaring you don't find him credible.

Just a brief search turns up patents and other articles...as well as hit pieces but there's no surprise there. He clearly worked on mRNA and he's listed as "an" inventor of it. 








The tangled history of mRNA vaccines


Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.




www.nature.com





I think the biggest point in him mentioning his deep history with the vaccines is to make it clear that he is not an "anti-vaxxer".


----------



## Damfino

Chanceosunshine said:


> He claims to own patents to such technology. If that is true it wound't be a puffed up claim. I would suspect you'd have to put a little more research into verifying them than just reading the transcript and declaring you don't find him credible.
> 
> Just a brief search turns up patents and other articles...as well as hit pieces but there's no surprise there. He clearly worked on mRNA and he's listed as "an" inventor of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tangled history of mRNA vaccines
> 
> 
> Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest point in him mentioning his deep history with the vaccines is to make it clear that he is not an "anti-vaxxer".


He can claim whatever he wants, but I know he's not THE inventor of mRNA technology. There are way too many people involved for any one of them to make such a declaration. If Dr. Malone owns the patents to mRNA technology, then why did he sell them? Or if he didn't sell them, then why isn't he suing everyone who stole his tech? 

This still doesn't negate the fact that he expects his audience to believe his statements that the vaccine is toxic and harmful without providing one shred of supporting evidence. You want me to believe this guy, but I don't understand WHY I should believe him. I have zero reason to believe him. As far as I know, he's just some guy on the internet who is no different than Dr. Fauci who also likes to make factual claims in public without providing evidence. Call me "Ye of little faith" if you wish, but when it comes to news media (mainstream or otherwise) I'm a full-fledged Doubting Thomas.


----------



## Damfino

In other news, my brother and his family all came down with Covid last week. My sister-in-law got it first, and then the kids, and now my brother. My brother is just now getting bad as the others are getting better. My sister-in-law was able to get a prescription for ivermectin from their doctor and she says it made a huge difference after she started taking it. I don't know if the kids took it. I don't think they were very sick (they're all under 13 so not likely to get hit hard in any case). We'll see if ivermectin also helps my brother. I'm glad their doctor was willing to prescribe it. They live in Salida where alternative medicine is very popular (as it is in many of our little mountain towns). I think it's sad that many doctors and researchers in the U.S. won't even entertain the possibility that something like ivermectin or other drugs could work. There's no reason to dismiss things out of hand just because the "wrong side" was promoting it.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I read the transcript and I agree with some things but I have a very hard time getting past this part:
> 
> 
> 
> The first thing that strikes me here is Dr. Malone's puffed-up claim to creating mRNA vaccine technology. This technology was not created or invented by one person. Many people have had a hand in its creation over the last 30-odd years, some far more than Dr. Malone from what I can tell. I've even personally met one of the men who worked on mRNA technology for a couple of decades. mRNA vaccines are not a one-man show, so when someone lays claim to being THE inventor, I suddenly find myself skeptical.
> 
> His next sentence also does him no credit simply because he provides no proof or even evidence of his claims. He claims that the spike proteins created by the body are "toxic" without any qualifying proof and goes on to say that these proteins "often cause permanent damage" also without offering any qualifying proof or even evidence. He doesn't relay this as his opinion or theory. If he did that I would have a lot more reason to listen to his words as he is obviously a man of learning with a long history of research in mRNA technology. I would love to be able to find him credible. But rather than offer us what he believes is a sound theory based on his years of research, he does exactly what the dishonest mainstream media does--he offers "facts" without substantiation! He tells us something and expects us to believe it without linking to one single substantiating report.
> 
> I am fine with Dr. Malone's next two points. In fact, I 100% agree with them! (But not because of Dr. Malone.) In both points he is offering his expert opinion without injecting any unsubstantiated "facts" that we are simply expected to swallow without question.
> 
> As usual, I would love to believe this guy, but he undermines his own message by doing exactly the same thing I detest mainstream media for doing. He expects me to believe a certain statement is fact without offering one shred of evidence that those facts are correct. I consider myself an equal opportunity skeptic. Therefore I expect those whose theories I agree with to adhere to the same standards I expect from those I disagree with. I honestly don't consider my standards all that high. I wish these people would do better. They'd certainly be more likely to persuade folks like me who feel sidelined by ALL of the narratives.


Fair points, but ask yourself this: Who do you think is more qualified to discuss mRNA vax?


----------



## Chanceosunshine

Damfino said:


> He can claim whatever he wants, but I know he's not THE inventor of mRNA technology. There are way too many people involved for any one of them to make such a declaration. If Dr. Malone owns the patents to mRNA technology, then why did he sell them? Or if he didn't sell them, then why isn't he suing everyone who stole his tech?
> 
> This still doesn't negate the fact that he expects his audience to believe his statements that the vaccine is toxic and harmful without providing one shred of supporting evidence. You want me to believe this guy, but I don't understand WHY I should believe him. I have zero reason to believe him. As far as I know, he's just some guy on the internet who is no different than Dr. Fauci who also likes to make factual claims in public without providing evidence. Call me "Ye of little faith" if you wish, but when it comes to news media (mainstream or otherwise) I'm a full-fledged Doubting Thomas.


I don’t care if you believe him or not. I don’t quite understand why all your posts on this topic seem to come across as condescending and caustic.

I hope your brother will get better soon.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Fair points, but ask yourself this: Who do you think is more qualified to discuss mRNA vax?


I believe there are probably quite a few people who are very well qualified to discuss mRNA technology, including Dr. Malone. The problem is that they don't all agree. 😉


----------



## Damfino

Chanceosunshine said:


> I don’t care if you believe him or not. I don’t quite understand why all your posts on this topic seem to come across as condescending and caustic.
> 
> I hope your brother will get better soon.


I apologize if I come across as caustic and condescending. It's probably due to some defensiveness because of the overwhelming hostility toward the vaccine. I feel like anyone who is even slightly curious if the vaccines _could_ work, or who _wants_ them to work, or heaven forbid actually believes they _do_ work is a pariah here. Having faith in the vaccines makes you an idiot, a sheep, a puppet, a tool of the establishment. You've been duped by the media, cowed by the government, and used as an experiment for Big Pharma. Your health will suffer and you'll probably even die! That is vibe I get from this thread and it makes me a bit reactionary and even gives me the urge to play devil's advocate. I don't think you guys even realize how bad you make vaccine advocates feel. It's almost like you're silently accusing people of killing grandma if they encourage her to get vaccinated. 😕


----------



## Jessica84

Ok things are starting to get a little heated so I’m going to step in and say let’s drop the vaccine talk for a bit
-Admin-


----------



## littleheathens

I think it's important to have this space for discussing, but it's unacceptable to be calling people's assertions ludicrous or picking apart each post or word just to be a contrarian (as you say you are inclined to do). A discussion should be a sharing of information and ideas, and hopefully on TGS, in a supportive or understanding way. Nobody is calling anyone a "tool" or "idiot"- far from it. 

I've seen several instance of @Damfino misrepresenting words. Malone said (as I remember, without watching again) 'this mrna vaccine that I invented.' In your response you capitalize and say he shouldn't say he's "THE inventor." He did not. These are such trivial points, but they seem to really get your goat. ;-) (Smiley face for the goat reference, not for getting yours). I'm sure that is not anybody's intent. There are always sources for any of us to find further information, a presentation style we like better, misspoken words, or a word left out, typos, imperfectly presented ideas, and we can AND SHOULD each process that appropriately and kindly. I saw someone recently use the word "hibiscus" instead of "hibiclens." Funny, and in retrospect that's one I probably should have pointed out.

We can see your defensiveness and position as devil's advocate but perhaps rather than being tempted to reducing it to an attack on words of those speaking their peace (piece? which is it? both!?), you could share a study, an opinion or an anecdote, to support an idea you want to present. I also see that the punchline is often missed- the main point many here are repeatedly making is against mandates/lack of transparency/censorship/ and pro medical freedom. It's the unvaccinated minority that is being marginalized, segregated, and judged and this is one of the places we've found to share our views. There are few, if any, posts here that are "anti-vaccine;" that's a dangerous judgement to make and one we see often in our world. Over and over, TGS members are stating that they don't care what others do. I don't think sharing our views and seeking support should be squelched (again).


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Was reading a few posts to get a bit caught up. Everyone should know what their vit d level is. If you don’t know you really should request this test.

Low vit d puts people at risk regarding strong immune system to fight against covid

I haven’t read all posts…..but I think maybe admins should just merely talk to the offenders who are causing the issues here instead of shutting down the thread. 

I agree with littleheathens we have very few supportive places to talk for those of us from the NW and other areas who are not vaccinated. It’s great to have a place like this to talk. 

I don’t think we should shut down this thread regarding talk about the vaccines. 

Our world isn’t changing. It seems to only keep pushing ‘the get vaccinated or else’ thought. Australia now is requiring vaccine or you can’t serve in a church office. It’s ridiculous. We just found this out over the weekend from people in Australia. 

So I think we need a place to talk. If people can’t be civil….that’s where admin need to step in talking to the people off thread. 

Just my thoughts. Hope all have a great day today.


----------



## Damfino

I'm happy to move away from the vaccine subject for now.  

Here is a small but interesting study about T cells, which I don't believe have been talked about nearly enough in most discussions about immunity, which seem to largely revolve around antibodies. If offers up a theory as to why children are less affected by Covid. In 2020 there was some speculation as well as a few limited studies which suggested that T-cells primed by previous "common cold" coronaviruses could offer protection against Covid-19. Then there was silence on the issue for a long time before this new study was published today. I found it interesting to read. 









Cross-reactive memory T cells associate with protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in COVID-19 contacts - Nature Communications


While cross-reactive immunity between human coronavirus and SARS-CoV-2 may contribute to host protection, validating evidences are still scarce. Here the authors assess a cohort of 52 donors with immediate-early contact with SARS-CoV-2 to correlate higher frequency of cross-reactive T cells with...




www.nature.com


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Littleheathens:Thank you for sharing this link!





__





No More Silence - Telling Our Stories


No More Silence - We Want To Be Heard. Telling Our Stories, In Our Own Words. We are a fast-growing group who have been affected in many different ways by the Covid-19 Vaccine




nomoresilence.world





Wow. I don’t know what else to say. So incredibly sad what many people are experiencing. 

Chanceosunshine:
So sorry your whole family got sick. Glad you guys are recovering.


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> I think it's important to have this space for discussing, but it's unacceptable to be calling people's assertions ludicrous or picking apart each post or word just to be a contrarian (as you say you are inclined to do). A discussion should be a sharing of information and ideas, and hopefully on TGS, in a supportive or understanding way. Nobody is calling anyone a "tool" or "idiot"- far from it.
> 
> I've seen several instance of @Damfino misrepresenting words. Malone said (as I remember, without watching again) 'this mrna vaccine that I invented.' In your response you capitalize and say he shouldn't say he's "THE inventor." He did not. These are such trivial points, but they seem to really get your goat. ;-) (Smiley face for the goat reference, not for getting yours). I'm sure that is not anybody's intent. There are always sources for any of us to find further information, a presentation style we like better, misspoken words, or a word left out, typos, imperfectly presented ideas, and we can AND SHOULD each process that appropriately and kindly. I saw someone recently use the word "hibiscus" instead of "hibiclens." Funny, and in retrospect that's one I probably should have pointed out.
> 
> We can see your defensiveness and position as devil's advocate but perhaps rather than being tempted to reducing it to an attack on words of those speaking their peace (piece? which is it? both!?), you could share a study, an opinion or an anecdote, to support an idea you want to present. I also see that the punchline is often missed- the main point many here are repeatedly making is against mandates/lack of transparency/censorship/ and pro medical freedom. It's the unvaccinated minority that is being marginalized, segregated, and judged and this is one of the places we've found to share our views. There are few, if any, posts here that are "anti-vaccine;" that's a dangerous judgement to make and one we see often in our world. Over and over, TGS members are stating that they don't care what others do. I don't think sharing our views and seeking support should be squelched (again).


I apologize once again for coming off as caustic. I don't intend to misrepresent anyones words. Some things that seem trivial to others are important to me. I know I personally have a media trust problem. I tend to be skeptical of practically everything, and one of my more amusing pastimes is to read news for entertainment. The thing I enjoy about it is picking it apart and figuring out where someone didn't do their homework, or is taking for granted that I didn't do mine. I don't have a problem with any person on these forums, but I do have a problem with many of the links posted here. My frustration is with the media--ALL of it. I feel it is lazy, inadequate, patronizing, alarmist, and takes its various audiences for granted.

I rarely post links because too few of them live up to my own "smell test" even when I agree with their conclusions


----------



## happybleats

I agree we need a place to vent, share and discuss important world events. This is not just a goat forum but a family of goat farmers. Jessica didn't say we are shutting this thread down..she just asks to cool the jets a bit from vaccine talk. We do need to be civil and refrain from name calling. We should be able to discuss on opposite sides without fear of ridicule. The group motto is "keep it friendly" 
Let's not allow our passion for one side or the other to drive a wedge between members. I for one appreciate coming here and reading everyone's points a view. I enjoy gentle arguments bringing point to a head. We can do that and not attack a person's standing. 
And I think I may have been the one to say Hibiscus LOL. 😁


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Cathy sorry I misunderstood what Jessica was saying. But I’m not wanting to stop talking about issues surrounding the vaccine. So I guess that’s what I was trying to say. I agree with what you said. We need this thread to be able to talk about what’s going on in our world. 
And vaccine talk is very much a part of that. 

All need to refrain from being critical. We are all ‘adopted goat farmer family’ here. Or that’s how I see everyone here. We are family. So love and respect should be front and center in all that is said. 

‍tami


----------



## toth boer goats

Members who were out of line have already been warned and given a strike for inappropriate behavior.

We all have our own opinions and beliefs, however, we should not attack others to hurt them.

There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss Covid. Think of how you are presenting your thoughts before you post. Read and reread. Keep it friendly.

There is info behind the scenes which the media doesn’t tell us, we just have to do our own research to try to help us with the truth.
Duck duck go is a better search engine, less truth blocked than google.

Covid is a difficult subject in all aspects and when the media etc lie to us about numbers and the truth about the dangers of the vaccine, or true numbers of true cases, who actually died from Covid itself, makes things pretty stressful.

Think about this, when we are being forced to get the jab, something is not right.

We really need to keep this thread alive for our sanity.

Worse case scenario for members getting out of control, can be temporally banning for those who will not head warning.


----------



## Jessica84

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Cathy sorry I misunderstood what Jessica was saying. But I’m not wanting to stop talking about issues surrounding the vaccine. So I guess that’s what I was trying to say. I agree with what you said. We need this thread to be able to talk about what’s going on in our world.
> And vaccine talk is very much a part of that.
> 
> All need to refrain from being critical. We are all ‘adopted goat farmer family’ here. Or that’s how I see everyone here. We are family. So love and respect should be front and center in all that is said.
> 
> ‍tami


No I’m with the others this is a great topic and a lot of good information (like the vitamin D you just posted) I don’t think it should be shut down. And you are right we all are kinda like family and are friends and sometimes we can forget that.


----------



## DDFN

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Was reading a few posts to get a bit caught up. Everyone should know what their vit d level is. If you don’t know you really should request this test.
> 
> Low vit d puts people at risk regarding strong immune system to fight against covid
> 
> I haven’t read all posts…..but I think maybe admins should just merely talk to the offenders who are causing the issues here instead of shutting down the thread.
> 
> I agree with littleheathens we have very few supportive places to talk for those of us from the NW and other areas who are not vaccinated. It’s great to have a place like this to talk.
> 
> I don’t think we should shut down this thread regarding talk about the vaccines.
> 
> Our world isn’t changing. It seems to only keep pushing ‘the get vaccinated or else’ thought. Australia now is requiring vaccine or you can’t serve in a church office. It’s ridiculous. We just found this out over the weekend from people in Australia.
> 
> So I think we need a place to talk. If people can’t be civil….that’s where admin need to step in talking to the people off thread.
> 
> Just my thoughts. Hope all have a great day today.


Highly agree knowing ones vitamin d and calcium levels before or during taking vitamin d supplements.

No one wants to end up hypercalcium.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I'm happy to move away from the vaccine subject for now.
> 
> Here is a small but interesting study about T cells, which I don't believe have been talked about nearly enough in most discussions about immunity, which seem to largely revolve around antibodies. If offers up a theory as to why children are less affected by Covid. In 2020 there was some speculation as well as a few limited studies which suggested that T-cells primed by previous "common cold" coronaviruses could offer protection against Covid-19. Then there was silence on the issue for a long time before this new study was published today. I found it interesting to read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cross-reactive memory T cells associate with protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in COVID-19 contacts - Nature Communications
> 
> 
> While cross-reactive immunity between human coronavirus and SARS-CoV-2 may contribute to host protection, validating evidences are still scarce. Here the authors assess a cohort of 52 donors with immediate-early contact with SARS-CoV-2 to correlate higher frequency of cross-reactive T cells with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nature.com


I'll be the first to admit that the article is WAY over my head, but after quick scan, I found nothing related to children and COVID.
If you don't mind, could you explain? I usually find your points well written and easy to understand.


----------



## ksalvagno

Everyone has a right to their opinion. Whether you like that opinion or not, be respectful. Read and reread your post to be sure how you are coming across.


----------



## Damfino

I'm not trying to make this place a dumpster fire. I definitely don't want to see or contribute to that and I apologize if I offended people. However, I equally do not want to see this thread become an echo chamber of anti-Covid vax sentiment, which it seems to be in constant danger of doing. Echo chambers are ultimately far more insidiously dangerous than Covid, or vaccines, or even dumpster fires. I'm not anti-Covid vax and I hope very desperately that the vaccines prove to be safe, not just in the short-term but also in the long-term. Otherwise, with billions of people around the world getting the vaccine, it will be devastating for the entire planet if it results in widespread harm. Time will ultimately tell who is right and who is dead. (Any _Princess Bride_ fans out there?). 

Despite my growing inclination to believe the vaccines are safe, I would have liked to see it proven through several years worth of clinical trials before widespread rollout. Emergency authorization could have been given for high-risk groups, but all others should have had to wait or enroll in a clinical trial to get the shot. If Covid-19 were a much deadlier virus with few decent treatments, I would understand cutting corners and shortening timelines as much as possible. But that is not the case so I don't think fast-tracking approval times or bringing in mandates is remotely appropriate for this situation. I would have liked to see a lot more caution in the rollout and more nuance to the narrative than, "No, take it! It's safe! It really is! We're experts and we know these things! You have our word!" 

High-pressure tactics don't inspire trust. I'm a "wait and see" kind of person. I don't want to jump on any pro-vax or anti-vax bandwagon just because somebody tells me to believe them.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I'll be the first to admit that the article is WAY over my head, but after quick scan, I found nothing related to children and COVID.
> If you don't mind, could you explain? I usually find your points well written and easy to understand.


Well, I'm glad someone finds me lucid if nothing else! 

From the article: 
_"Previous work has suggested a higher prevalence of endemic coronaviruses infections in younger individuals11 and reduced prevalence of huCoV-specific T cells in older adults12." _

In plain terms, kids get sick a lot and therefore have a higher level of active human coronavirus T-cells. It seems these active T-cells have a tendency to fade during adulthood as the frequency of illness wanes. 

This particular study did not include children, but the way I read it, adults who had active human coronavirus memory T-cells associated with common colds avoided infection from SARS-Cov-2 after close exposure. The upshot here is that the mRNA vaccines were built to target the spike protein associated with Covid-19. The spike protein mutated and is therefore dodging vaccine protection. However, memory T-cells don't just target a single feature of a foreign pathogen. They target other features as well, which means they may recognize a new Covid mutation because of its similarities to various features of familiar coronaviruses. The takeaway for researchers is that if mRNA technology is to be useful across various mutations, it has to target more features than just the spike protein. 

This is the kind of stuff that flies in the face of the narrative that vaccination is more effective than natural immunity. I'm tired of hearing from the pro-vax crowd that natural immunity offers little or no value compared to vaccination. I agree that vaccination is probably statistically safer than acquiring immunity through disease, but no one should be downplaying the miraculous workings of our natural immune systems either. There is a lot to be learned from them! Scientists have a tendency to put themselves on a pedestal that only God should occupy. We live in a fallen and corrupt world and medical advances are a wonderful way to counter the deficiencies of nature, but it needs to be done with humility in the face of thousands of years of Intelligent Design and Evolution. We vaccinate to help the immune system--not to replace it.


----------



## DDFN

Any one seen the new label of flurona? Yup people getting both the flu and covid at the same time is now the big thing around here.

Oh the names of things flurona?!?!?!


----------



## Goats Rock

Double whammy! I think I will just stay in my barn- avoid everyone! I hate getting sick!


----------



## DDFN

Goats Rock said:


> Double whammy! I think I will just stay in my barn- avoid everyone! I hate getting sick!


I second that. Too bad I can't work from home the goats would love it! Our robotics competition got cancelled today. No out of state travel and no off campus trips in state. So looking for virtual challenges or virtual events now.


----------



## Damfino

Now HERE is a media piece I can actually get behind! 


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ice-cream-help-covid-19-181000131.html


----------



## ksalvagno

That is funny! Ice cream, the cure all.


----------



## DDFN

Ice cream and chicken noodle soup right? Just not mixed together! Lol


----------



## MellonFriend

Damfino said:


> Now HERE is a media piece I can actually get behind!
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ice-cream-help-covid-19-181000131.html


Oh no! Now people are bound to start panic-buying ice-cream! We'll be required a prescription for all frozen dairy products before we know it! 🤣🍧


----------



## Dandy Hill Farm

MellonFriend said:


> Oh no! Now people are bound to start panic-buying ice-cream! We'll be required a prescription for all frozen dairy products before we know it! 🤣🍧


If that really does happen, then the world would definitely be coming to an end! Don't think anybody would be able to live without getting ice cream in the afterhours or when all the doctors are closed! 🤣

Guess what though? Us dairy goat peeps are lucky duckies 'cause we can make our own ice cream when ever we want. 😎 Better not tell anyone about that though...they'd all be knocking on our doors. Or....we could make a killing selling black-market ice cream when the docs are out..... 🤔 🤣


----------



## Damfino

Bootleg ice cream... hmm... I kind of like this idea. We could make a killing! 
I can run the Pueblo and Trinidad operations with my Italian and Mexican mafia connections. Who wants Chicago? New York? Miami? L.A.? I think a fleet of armor-plated freezer trucks is in order!


----------



## Goatastic43

Forget about Farm Life Coffee Co. the future is in Farm Life ICE CREAM CO.! 🤣


----------



## DDFN

Goatastic43 said:


> Forget about Farm Life Coffee Co. the future is in Farm Life ICE CREAM CO.! 🤣


Ok another video idea to add to the parody lost now Lol. 

Better keep this on the DL. Or they will start taking everyone goats or charging us a goat tax for having access to ice cream queens!


----------



## DDFN

Damfino said:


> Bootleg ice cream... hmm... I kind of like this idea. We could make a killing!
> I can run the Pueblo and Trinidad operations with my Italian and Mexican mafia connections. Who wants Chicago? New York? Miami? L.A.? I think a fleet of armor-plated freezer trucks is in order!


The secret is out on your connections now! Lol. Well Tennessee shouldn't need to bootleg it. If they can't stop the on going drug problem in the state they can't stop home made ice cream! 

Do you need someone to ride shotgun? Lol


----------



## Jessica84

The sad thing is though you loose your taste so you can’t even enjoy the doctors orders! But I will say I still enjoyed my big sticks when I had it. I’m also a huge soda person so putting them in the freezer where they were a degree under freezing was nice too. But I didn’t go with the real deal ice cream because I had so much crud I was coughing up I didn’t want to add to it.


----------



## toth boer goats

😫☝


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I'll be the first to admit that the article is WAY over my head, but after quick scan, I found nothing related to children and COVID.
> If you don't mind, could you explain? I usually find your points well written and easy to understand.


I have a follow-up reply. I read an article this morning that pretty well breaks down the raw study and explains it in layman's terms (because yes, trying to glean information directly from research papers can be quite difficult). It says what I was trying to say but in better terms and with more detail. 









T-cells from common colds could help scientists make the "Holy Grail": A variant-proof COVID vaccine


T-cells generated as part of the body's natural immune response to the common cold may help protect against serious illness from COVID-19.




www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> Well, I'm glad someone finds me lucid if nothing else!


I doubt there are many who would find your writing unlucid (nonlucid? maybe illucid?)




Damfino said:


> From the article:
> _"Previous work has suggested a higher prevalence of endemic coronaviruses infections in younger individuals11 and reduced prevalence of huCoV-specific T cells in older adults12." _
> 
> In plain terms, kids get sick a lot and therefore have a higher level of active human coronavirus T-cells. It seems these active T-cells have a tendency to fade during adulthood as the frequency of illness wanes.
> 
> This particular study did not include children, but the way I read it, adults who had active human coronavirus memory T-cells associated with common colds avoided infection from SARS-Cov-2 after close exposure. The upshot here is that the mRNA vaccines were built to target the spike protein associated with Covid-19. The spike protein mutated and is therefore dodging vaccine protection. However, memory T-cells don't just target a single feature of a foreign pathogen. They target other features as well, which means they may recognize a new Covid mutation because of its similarities to various features of familiar coronaviruses. The takeaway for researchers is that if mRNA technology is to be useful across various mutations, it has to target more features than just the spike protein.


I knew you could 'splain it to me. Thanks for that. It is making sense now.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I have a follow-up reply. I read an article this morning that pretty well breaks down the raw study and explains it in layman's terms (because yes, trying to glean information directly from research papers can be quite difficult). It says what I was trying to say but in better terms and with more detail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-cells from common colds could help scientists make the "Holy Grail": A variant-proof COVID vaccine
> 
> 
> T-cells generated as part of the body's natural immune response to the common cold may help protect against serious illness from COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com


Thanks for that too.


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

DDFN: flurona? Never heard of that. The name is funny but I bet that they sure get sick with both!! Not good. 

A lot seems to be getting shut down again here it seems due to omicron. Or it seems to be headed that direction to shut down. Hopefully it won’t last and we can get on with our lives again!

Thing is if they are eating ice cream that’s a immune suppressant because of the sugar. My college heath teacher taught me that. For approx 2hrs after eating sugar your immune system is lowered. So if your exposed to anything you’d be more apt to get whatever your exposed to. On the switch side if you fast that boosts your immune system. Pretty interesting how our bodies work!

Nobody thinks your unlucid damfino 

Hope you all have a wonderful day! We’ve been having some decent days without rain so I’m moving the burn pile to the flower beds. Getting a head start on spring!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

From DC Mayor:

Remember that starting Saturday you will need these three things before heading out: 
1. Proof of Vaccination (12 years +) 
2. Proof of Vaccination and Photo ID (18 years +) 
3. Mask 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if there will be much blow-back. What happened to hand washing and "social" distancing?


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

Wow mike that’s crazy! I hadn’t heard that!! It’s starting in the US!?


----------



## Damfino

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Thing is if they are eating ice cream that’s a immune suppressant because of the sugar. My college heath teacher taught me that. For approx 2hrs after eating sugar your immune system is lowered. So if your exposed to anything you’d be more apt to get whatever your exposed to. On the switch side if you fast that boosts your immune system. Pretty interesting how our bodies work!


On the other hand, eating ice cream releases endorphins, which everyone knows are super-power-immune boosters.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> From DC Mayor:
> 
> Remember that starting Saturday you will need these three things before heading out:
> 1. Proof of Vaccination (12 years +)
> 2. Proof of Vaccination and Photo ID (18 years +)
> 3. Mask
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I wonder if there will be much blow-back. What happened to hand washing and "social" distancing?


Since "proof" consists of a piece of paper that anyone can easily make on a home printer and a piece of cardstock, I wonder how many of those "vaccinated" people are _actually_ vaccinated? 

Every time someone claims that vaccine mandates boost compliance, my skeptical side says, "Yeah... you only _think_ they complied."


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Now you are going too far. Thinking that some people might cheat the system. Come on now....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Nurse in Italy arrested over fake Covid vaccines scam*

At least 50 people reportedly paid the suspect to obtain a vaccination pass without receiving the jab

A nurse has been arrested in Italy over a Covid-19 vaccine scam that saw at least 50 people pay to receive a vaccination pass without being jabbed, police in Italy have said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COVID news -- it just keeps getting more bizarre.


----------



## DDFN

Buck Naked Boers said:


> DDFN: flurona? Never heard of that. The name is funny but I bet that they sure get sick with both!! Not good.
> 
> A lot seems to be getting shut down again here it seems due to omicron. Or it seems to be headed that direction to shut down. Hopefully it won’t last and we can get on with our lives again!
> 
> Thing is if they are eating ice cream that’s a immune suppressant because of the sugar. My college heath teacher taught me that. For approx 2hrs after eating sugar your immune system is lowered. So if your exposed to anything you’d be more apt to get whatever your exposed to. On the switch side if you fast that boosts your immune system. Pretty interesting how our bodies work!
> 
> Nobody thinks your unlucid damfino
> 
> Hope you all have a wonderful day! We’ve been having some decent days without rain so I’m moving the burn pile to the flower beds. Getting a head start on spring!


Yeah funny name and I didn't even come up with it. One of my students asked me about it the first day the name was released and I was like well here we go again. Trying explaining that it's two separate things and not a new mutation of covid.

Side note amazing how this part of Tennessee seems like a free for all! Have symptoms? No worries, just keep going day by day like nothing is different. No mask required and no testing required. . .wait what really? Yup. 

Sending smoke signals wouldn't even help at this point.


----------



## littleheathens

DDFN said:


> Yeah funny name and I didn't even come up with it. One of my students asked me about it the first day the name was released and I was like well here we go again. Trying explaining that it's two separate things and not a new mutation of covid.
> 
> Side note amazing how this part of Tennessee seems like a free for all! Have symptoms? No worries, just keep going day by day like nothing is different. No mask required and no testing required. . .wait what really? Yup.
> 
> Sending smoke signals wouldn't even help at this point.


I'm so envious! We try to find all the restaurants, activities, weekends, etc, we can to get away from our county. It's so stifling and terrible for the economy. 

This came my way today, https://brownstone.org/articles/ehud-qimrons-powerful-letter-to-the-israeli-ministry-of-health/\ along with a similar toned article on Unherd Has the Great Barrington Declaration been vindicated? Our Supreme Court is about to rule on the OSHA mandates...IDK but I feel like we're on the cusp of change. Not Canada though. Emigrate much, Mike?


----------



## Damfino

littleheathens said:


> I'm so envious! We try to find all the restaurants, activities, weekends, etc, we can to get away from our county. It's so stifling and terrible for the economy.
> 
> This came my way today, https://brownstone.org/articles/ehud-qimrons-powerful-letter-to-the-israeli-ministry-of-health/\ along with a similar toned article on Unherd Has the Great Barrington Declaration been vindicated? Our Supreme Court is about to rule on the OSHA mandates...IDK but I feel like we're on the cusp of change. Not Canada though. Emigrate much, Mike?


Excellent links!


----------



## DDFN

littleheathens said:


> I'm so envious! We try to find all the restaurants, activities, weekends, etc, we can to get away from our county. It's so stifling and terrible for the economy.
> 
> This came my way today, https://brownstone.org/articles/ehud-qimrons-powerful-letter-to-the-israeli-ministry-of-health/\ along with a similar toned article on Unherd Has the Great Barrington Declaration been vindicated? Our Supreme Court is about to rule on the OSHA mandates...IDK but I feel like we're on the cusp of change. Not Canada though. Emigrate much, Mike?


Well information is being withheld from certain individuals in certain fields aka teachers. This popped up today and I can so relate.

Hope it's ok to share a YouTube video link here.


----------



## Jessica84

It’s super weird here! In my area, my small wonderful town lol it’s almost like it’s normal. We do have a mask mandate in the state but no one is enforcing it here. Except the school and the post office. But the few times I go into the city and you don’t dare get close to a business without that mask! 
It’s kinda interesting, and sad, don’t get me wrong, on what is going on at the school. So we have a very small community and not very many kids that are in the district for the high school. So they let out of district kids in and the majority of those kids are from the city. Covid is going threw that school like crazy! I got a email Monday morning that my son had been exposed twice, once from a teacher and once from a student, and he will need to be tested. They have so many kids that have been exposed they have not even gotten to my son yet because there are so many kids that need to be tested. Now he’s not showing a single symptom, not even a occasional dry cough, but for all they know he is like my husband with very little signs and is spreading it. But my son said so many kids are being sent home because they have tested positive. I would not be surprised if we go back to distant learning again.
On my daughters side, home schooled and only goes once a week for what they call enrichment classes, basically getting some social skills. Last year they were maxed out from the beginning on students. The beginning of this year hardly any kids, she went this week and 8 new kids, just that showed up for the “fun” day not counting how many went to homeschool and just didn’t attend. So it’s going to be quite interesting to see how this all plays out. The only bad thing is with more kids comes more covid germs and in that school if someone tests positive everyone is out for 10 days. Doesn’t matter if they wear a mask or not. No testing to confirm they are negative. 
I’ll tell you I absolutely feel for the parents that both have to work. The whole unknown and having to take 10 days off at a drop of a hat has got to be rough! I am definitely feeling blessed being a stay at home mom right now!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Oh great, an unvax tax in Canada.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Quebec to force unvaccinated to pay 'significant' financial penalty *
Adult Quebecers who refuse to be vaccinated against COVID-19 will be forced to pay a “significant” financial penalty, Premier Francois Legault said Tuesday, one day after the sudden resignation of the province’s public health director.

The penalty would be the first of its kind in Canada and would apply to unvaccinated residents who don’t have a medical exemption, Legault told reporters in Montreal. The “health contribution” is necessary, he said, because about 10 per cent of adult Quebecers aren’t vaccinated, but they represent about half of all patients in intensive care.

Last week, Quebec announced it would expand the vaccine passport system by requiring proof of vaccination to enter liquor and cannabis stores. Health Minister Christian Dube has said he was mulling extending the passport further, to shopping malls and personal care salons. 

In Austria, residents aged 14 and over could start facing fines of up to $5,147 if they aren’t vaccinated against COVID-19 by March 15. In Greece, those over 60 have until Jan. 16 to get a first dose of vaccine or be fined $143 a month, while in Italy, residents 50 and older are required to be vaccinated or could face fines of up to $2,287.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we should just stop playing around. Enough with the incentives and coersion. Let's just go door to door and force vax everyone and be done with it.


----------



## Damfino

^ That stuff is crazy. Especially for a disease that most people do recover from, and that already appears to be evolving on its own into something more closely resembling a common cold, and for which vaccination is becoming less and less effective. Even Portugal, which has over 99% vaccination rate, is currently recording its highest number of cases since the pandemic began. Thankfully those folks are largely staying out of hospitals, but at this point there's not one first world country whose vaccination rate is so low that the unvaccinated are liable to create a burden on hospitals. This is not a national emergency anywhere. I suspect these overbearing governments may end up with a lot of civil unrest and riots on their hands. You can only push people so far before they push back. They should reserve this kind of strong-arming for a true emergency.


----------



## happybleats

That's totally nuts!!!


----------



## Moers kiko boars

Im suprised if the Cannibus users dont freak out about this Canadian law! Lol lol its taken years for them to get it legally, and now...another government block..! 
Covid is here to stay. Wether you are vaxed or not. Its just ashame the same rules dont apply for Every type of Vaccine is required..We would all be standing in lines getting several injections, like in the military intro.


----------



## littleheathens

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Oh great, an unvax tax in Canada.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Quebec to force unvaccinated to pay 'significant' financial penalty *
> Adult Quebecers who refuse to be vaccinated against COVID-19 will be forced to pay a “significant” financial penalty, Premier Francois Legault said Tuesday, one day after the sudden resignation of the province’s public health director.
> 
> The penalty would be the first of its kind in Canada and would apply to unvaccinated residents who don’t have a medical exemption, Legault told reporters in Montreal. The “health contribution” is necessary, he said, because about 10 per cent of adult Quebecers aren’t vaccinated, but they represent about half of all patients in intensive care.
> 
> Last week, Quebec announced it would expand the vaccine passport system by requiring proof of vaccination to enter liquor and cannabis stores. Health Minister Christian Dube has said he was mulling extending the passport further, to shopping malls and personal care salons.
> 
> In Austria, residents aged 14 and over could start facing fines of up to $5,147 if they aren’t vaccinated against COVID-19 by March 15. In Greece, those over 60 have until Jan. 16 to get a first dose of vaccine or be fined $143 a month, while in Italy, residents 50 and older are required to be vaccinated or could face fines of up to $2,287.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I think we should just stop playing around. Enough with the incentives and coersion. Let's just go door to door and force vax everyone and be done with it.


Any suggestions on what to do to help you? Solutions? I'm sorry, Canadians. 

With the Supreme Court knocking down the OSHA mandated vaccinations (YAY!) and another federal judge requiring trial data be released to the public in 8 months instead of the FDA's requested 76 years, I think we're making progress here. But, man, is it painful. 

My kids are pining to go to Canada on a trip- we'd LOVE it but it's a pipe dream now.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Last week, Quebec announced it would expand the vaccine passport system by requiring proof of vaccination to enter liquor and cannabis stores.





Moers kiko boars said:


> Im suprised if the Cannibus users dont freak out about this Canadian law! Lol lol its taken years for them to get it legally, and now...another government block..!


And this just in: Cannabis may help prevent Covid! 


https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jnatprod.1c00946



The overview:








Researchers say cannabis compounds might prevent COVID-19 infection


Researchers in Oregon say that compounds found in cannabis could possibly prevent the virus that causes COVID-19 from entering healthy human cells.




www.thedenverchannel.com


----------



## littleheathens

We can have our weed and ice cream too! Gosh, this is so much easier than quarantines and intubation.

@Mike at Capra Vista...saw this today Researchers say cannabis compounds might prevent COVID-19 infection

I'm all about any Medical Freedom wins. If your truckers have the power, that may be the beginning of a landslide. Was this union-related, or just common sense?


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

littleheathens said:


> Any suggestions on what to do to help you? Solutions? I'm sorry, Canadians.
> 
> With the Supreme Court knocking down the OSHA mandated vaccinations (YAY!) and another federal judge requiring trial data be released to the public in 8 months instead of the FDA's requested 76 years, I think we're making progress here. But, man, is it painful.
> 
> My kids are pining to go to Canada on a trip- we'd LOVE it but it's a pipe dream now.


Well don't tar all of Canada with one brush. The proposed unvax tax is in Quebec where they also have a COVID Curfew from 10pm to 5am. Quebec often does things a bit ... um ... different.

Besides, you guys still have many entertaining things happening politically to which we don't know the outcome. So I'm not ready to move to the States just yet. Not that I could anyway.


----------



## Damfino

I'm really happy that the Supreme Court ruled the way they did. I'm ok with vaccination mandates for staff at federally funded hospitals, but the private employee mandate was a bridge too far. I like what the court said here: 
_
"Although COVID-19 is a risk that occurs in many workplaces, it is not an occupational hazard in most," the court wrote. "COVID-19 can and does spread at home, in schools, during sporting events, and everywhere else that people gather. That kind of universal risk is no different from the day-to-day dangers that all face from crime, air pollution, or any number of communicable diseases."_

Also, 

_Benjamin M. Flowers, solicitor general for the state of Ohio, argued on behalf of the group that the administration’s industry-wide application is too broad, exceeding its authority to regulate activities limited to those present while employees are on the job.

“It's not truly intended to regulate a workplace danger; it's a danger that we all face simply as a matter of waking up in the morning,” Flowers argued._

He's right--Covid is not a special workplace danger, so there's no reason why OSHA should have the authority to mandate vaccines specifically for workers. I can see why the hospital mandate was allowed to stand, given patient vulnerability and the fact that diseases are far more prevalent in a hospital setting than in the general public. I don't love that it went into effect for a vaccine so new, but at least I can appreciate the reasoning.


----------



## DDFN

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Well don't tar all of Canada with one brush. The proposed unvax tax is in Quebec where they also have a COVID Curfew from 10pm to 5am. Quebec often does things a bit ... um ... different.
> 
> Besides, you guys still have many entertaining things happening politically to which we don't know the outcome. So I'm not ready to move to the States just yet. Not that I could anyway.


Even when the political outcomes happen we still won't know the outcomes lol don't get me started on politics I am not actually supposed to share my opinions.

We won't take you either. But humm you think that area would know covid doesn't know the time of day to stay inactive from 5 am until 10 pm.

My mother told me she saw on the news that the state of Tennessee is 32 or 33 % with covid. So about 33% of the state's population currently has active covid! That's not counting all the sick that are not labelled as covid because apparently if you don't test for it then it isn't covid lol


----------



## Buck Naked Boers

I agree littleheathens progress is being made. The Supreme Court knock down of the mandate was a great thing!!

DDFN our state has high Covid rates too I’m sure. It’s everywhere. Doesn’t really matter if they are strict or not about masks etc. I heard from a friend that it’s supposed to peak in our state next wk. Not sure how they happen to know that? But a lot of people are getting it here. 

By the way….is omicron the last variant? I sure haven’t heard of any other variants that are heading to the US? Have you guys heard anything? Maybe it’s because I’m busy on the farm but it seems like Covid might be going away. Is that possible? Shhh don’t tell anyone!!


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

*B.C. shortens wait between second, third vaccine doses for pregnant people*

As of Jan. 13, pregnant people living in B.C. can now access a booster shot only eight weeks after their second vaccine dose and at any stage in their pregnancy, but it took a few weeks for the policy to come into effect.

Marie Tarrant, a professor at the University of British Columbia school of nursing who studies maternal and childhood vaccines, agreed being fully vaccinated with a booster shot would benefit a pregnant person and their fetus – the more antibodies in either immune system, the better. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Health experts say the new Omicron wave has crested or may be cresting soon. 
Though they also say it may just be a glitch in the data due to insufficient testing.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

More silliness.

An 84-year-old Indian man allegedly received 11 or 12 doses of COVID vaccines over the past year by using multiple identification cards assigned to him. He has threatened to commit suicide if prosecuted for misleading the Indian Health Service.

So, it seems that some people don't want the jab at all, but others cannot get enough.


----------



## toth boer goats

Covid vaccine being forced on us is
not right.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista

Pfizer CEO and chairman Albert Bourla:

“We know that the two doses of the vaccine offer very limited protection, if any,” 
“The three doses with a booster, they offer reasonable protection against hospitalization and deaths – against deaths, I think, very good, and less protection against infection,”



We have been hearing that the vax effectiveness goes down rapidly over time, hence we need boosters.
There have now been several studies that show if you are double vaxed (no booster) the effectiveness is actually negative against Omicron after about 4 months. That is 4 or more months after your 2nd shot you are more likely to get Omicron than a person with no shot.

I didn't see anything about the severity for those infected with or without shots.


----------



## Damfino

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> There have now been several studies that show if you are double vaxed (no booster) the effectiveness is actually negative against Omicron after about 4 months. That is 4 or more months after your 2nd shot you are more likely to get Omicron than a person with no shot.


I'd be interested to see those studies.


----------



## happybleats

Currently have my sister, my daughter, my daughter fiance who is type1 diabetic, my other daughters husband,, several of her co workers,, two family friends and my other daughters mother in law along with several members of our church down with covid. 
All have said the first day or two was hard but quickly they all began to feel better. Even My future SIL who we were a bit worried about with his health was only down one day!! Not that day two was great..but he was up eating. Im guessing This new variant is less critical than the others. I'm not saying it's easy....or for some cant be serious as any illness can,, but people do not seem to be as serious as the other variants. I'm praying it's loosing steam 🤞


----------



## HoosierShadow

This past week has been crazy. Firstly, I am feeling better thankfully. I did see a lung doctor yesterday because a ct scan I had last week of my stomach showed a small nodule on the bottom of my left lung. He isn't concerned about it and said I probably came in contact with a virus at some point that caused it, said it was common.
ct scan didn't show top of lungs, but he said a lot of issues tend to start in the bottom, however if I had a blood clot or scaring they would be at the top and wants me to have another ct scan. However, he believes I have acid reflux. I definitely think he is right as I've suspected this for the last few weeks. 

My son is sick as of yesterday and I am worried he probably has Covid or the flu. Fever, cough, sore throat, body aches, etc. I don't know of anywhere he can really get tested this weekend, and appts for places I do know of are booked until Wed. There is a place he could go tomorrow but some of those drive through spots say they have testing then you get there and there is no one there. Ugh.

Work has been a nightmare. I returned from a week off on Sunday to pure chaos. I work part time at a grocery in the online pickup dept - I pick online orders. We had a winter storm hit late last week along with Covid cases soaring, so orders were coming in at high volumes - staff couldn't keep up. When I came in on Sunday morning we had 80 orders that had rolled over from Saturday, and around 200 orders just for Sunday. That is insane! We don't have the staff or capacity for that. We had people out with Covid including our dept manager, someone quit, another person I am not sure if they are on vacation or quit? We are officially terribly understaffed. We begged management to have the orders capped off and cancel orders, but they said they couldn't do that - apparently the only one who has the call on that is the President/CEO of the company and that this was happening at many of the stores. 
Monday I never touched a single order for that day, I was still picking from Sunday. Our area, fridge & freezer were overfilled with orders, many no doubt were not going to get picked up but hadn't been cancelled. Customers waiting for HOURS in line to pick up their orders, people complaining and so upset. I feel so bad for the customers, especially the ones who are sick and the regular customers. Wed they did finally cap things off and we got caught up and were starting to empty out the cancelled and old orders. 
Our area should be 'empty' when I get to work in the mornings, so it's been overwhelming coming in to see it so full - finding places to put orders, just finding room to bring our carts in so we can put the orders where they go and restock with totes for the next cart. 
I don't pick a person's whole order on one cart. They might have 2 totes for a refrigerated cart, I might have 1 of those and someone else have the other one. 
Today I was picking orders from yesterday afternoon and there were still soooo many orders left to pick. One full time person called in, fed up and needed a break before they quit - I don't blame them. I just don't see how this could be good for business? So much waste! Deli meats/cheese, meats and produce especially. Ugh. 
They need to get some control over this and start capping the orders. 

There is a chance for snow this weekend and I told them if there is even a dusting don't plan on me being there. That's how fed up I am right now  Thankfully I am off work tomorrow. Let's see if they get their act together Sunday...
On top of that there are shortages happening again - chicken being the worst and ground beef are the big ones and not a single cough drop in the store today which apparently has never happened before. But hey, plenty of toilet paper and paper towels!


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## Jessica84

Thank goodness for the TP!!! Gosh I wish I could come back and see what my great great great grandkids thought of all that lol 
I’m sorry things are tough at work though. That sure makes for long days at work 
Sooooo the funnyness of how the schools handle this is so baffling I have to laugh. Still no test done on my son that I got a email about on monday Being exposed. I wonder if 3 weeks from now when they get to his name if they will still call him in. 
My daughter was exposed on Tuesday. So no testing just simply do not come to school for 5 days after being exposed. She only goes to school on tuesdays so I said oh! Only 5 days (last time it was 10) so she can go to school on Tuesday. They said no not this next Tuesday but she can come the next Tuesday. Hmmmmmmmm now I’m just the mommy teacher, I didn’t get my degree or anything but something just isn’t adding up on that math lol 
So in a nut shell, son might have covid but he stays at school because they haven’t gotten around to him (again no symptoms). Daughter was exposed has to stay home for 5 days but 5 days really means at least 7 days lol I give up! 
Also heard today threw the grapevine since I don’t watch the news any more, our governor is planning on starting this thing where they send each family 1 mask and 1 test per month. Not one per person, 1 each person family. I laughed over that! Maybe the whole family shares 1 for the month? That can’t be a good plan to stop this lol


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## Damfino

@happybleats
Yeah, the latest version is basically a bad cold. Glad your family is getting over it. I'm pretty sure it's what my husband and I have right now. He's almost over it. I caught it from him so I'm a few days behind.

@HoosierShadow
That's insane. I hope things settle down soon or your grocery store isn't going to have any more employees and I won't blame them for quitting! Reminds me of that "I Love Lucy" episode:





@Jessica84
That is hilarious. These confusing, conflicting, ever-changing rules are why most people are throwing up their hands and saying, "Why bother?" Who can believe public health guidance or the so-called "experts" when none of them agree, the message keeps changing, and the message rarely makes sense in the real world anyway? Precious little of it has made sense from the beginning. I love that they want to send one mask and one test to each family per month. Now THERE'S a helpful public health strategy! Yessiree-bob! That'll show that Covid who's boss! The virus will be crawling on the floor looking for its teeth and your family will be SAFE with that mask and that Covid test!


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## Mike at Capra Vista

Damfino said:


> I'd be interested to see those studies.


Here is one article:








As Three More Studies Show Negative Vaccine Effectiveness, When Will Health Authorities Face Up to What the Data is Telling Us?


The last two weeks have brought three new studies finding negative efficacy for two vaccine doses, meaning the vaccinated are




dailysceptic.org





And one more:








Ontario Study: Double Jabs Give Negative Vaccine Efficacy Against Omicron, 95 Percent of Cases Fully Vaccinated - Vision Times


In Ontario, only 5.1 percent of Omicron positives and 33.1 percent of Delta positives were in the unvaccinated between Nov. 22 and Dec. 19, found a new study.




www.visiontimes.com


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## Damfino

This will be interesting to watch as time goes on, but right now it's impossible to draw any conclusions. It looks like there's a lot of buzz around a preprint of a study out of Denmark that appears to show that vaccinated people are more likely to be infected with Omicron than unvaccinated people. But right now it looks like there's a lot of information missing. My brain is extremely foggy today because I took Nyquil last night and it left me with a terrible hangover, so it will be easier to look into these articles later when my head is clear. 

One of the things that I don't see being taken into account is whether the unvaccinated had a previous Covid infection. I would readily believe that vaccinated individuals are more susceptible to Omicron than unvaccinated but previously infected people, but I would be skeptical of the claim that vaccinated individuals are more susceptible than naive ones. My guess is that they would either have similar susceptibility or that the vaccinated would have a slight advantage. I'm not seeing any differentiation here between unvaccinated recovered and unvaccinated naive and I think it's a very important one.


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## HoosierShadow

I am sure work is insane today and feel bad for my coworkers who are trying their best to take care of customers. My daughter and I were running errounds in another county - getting goat feed, dog food and a few grocery items/medicine because unfortunately Covid has hit our house - my son tested positive a little while ago. He has not felt well since Thurs afternoon, started with bad back ache, he thought he'd injured his back throwing hay bales off a wagon (works at a feed company). Then I guess overnight he started feeling really bad, running a fever, etc. I had no idea he felt so bad until I got home from work yesterday. He has all the symptoms except he still says he has taste & smell.
There are no appointments near us that I could find for testing until mid week, so by chance when I stopped in the pharmacy to check on a prescription and they happened to have some at home tests so I bought one. They were $10 each so I figured I'd try one out on him to see how doable they are. It was very easy and sadly, didn't even have to wait 15 minutes, he is so positive apparently that it had a positive result in 4 minutes.
So, I've contacted work to let them know that I have to quarantine. I'm not sure if I could technically work if I tested each morning before I go in, but I cannot do that @ $10 a test  The schools here have a program 'test to stay,' where the kids can be tested on site and if they are negative they can go about their school day, BUT, they can not ride the bus to/from school for the quarantine time. I kind of wish they did that for us at work since we are having so many shortages on staff. We just had someone come back yesterday that had to quarantine but never got sick.


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## Moers kiko boars

@HoosierShadow ..I think quarantine should be on an individual basis. Going by your recent Health concerns, no Job is worth your life. Life & Health is precious. Please put your health, peace of mind, first. 💝


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## toth boer goats

Locked thread, no further comments.
It has gotten to the point of unfairness to those who try to comment and way off topic.


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