# Goat not moving



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi there. I am asking for a friend who has no internet. She has a pregnant doe that is not wanting to walk around or move. She eats and drinks when it is brought and held for her but she doesn't want to move. She is urinating and defecating still.

This all started yesterday when friend fed her goats and went to put out fresh hay. She turned around and her doe was on the ground, eyes twitching and flailing around. She got back up and seemed fine except she's not moving. My friend brought her inside for the night and brought her out again today but she is still acting poorly. My friend has had a bad time lately with her goats, she lost two in the past two months and we really don't want to lose this goat, which was her first.

Please help us. I am including the picture my friend sent of how she is standing.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Bad news: Her rectal temp is 97.4. Friend brought her back inside and has her covered.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Could she have gotten into poison??


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Could she have gotten into poison??


I don't think so. Their fence is completely separated from anywhere poison might be.

She called a local goat owner and they said it could be goat polio? Or maybe worms because the wormer they have been using is no good apparently?


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

If that is what the local goat owner says, go for it. Polio/Listeria needs to be treated ASAP.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Hm, I am not so good at English, but it could be "foglossning" - if the delivery is coming close, the mother sort of loosens up her sceleton sections, in order to be able to get the small one out through the bone ring. Concrete softening? Oh, what CAN it be called ...

Or, of course a low rate of something important, like selenium (Se), which is a common problem here, or Calcium (Ca).

Now, eh ... 97,4 that seems to be Fahrenheit. I can only unerstand Celcius (being a Swede, haha). But if there is fever, it ought to be an infection. Uterus infection seems to be a too bad possibility, let us hope it is NOT!!!

Is there a possibility to feel over the goat to check for places that hurt? Do you live close to your friend, so you could help her post a picture?

CAE is of course also a possibility, but it usually does not include fever. How is the udder? What does it look like under the tail, clean or irritated? When is she supposed to deliver?


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> If that is what the local goat owner says, go for it. Polio/Listeria needs to be treated ASAP.


She is waiting on a call back from that lady on what they need to go buy. I searched google and it seems like B1 vitamin are key for treating.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Trollmor said:


> Hm, I am not so good at English, but it could be "foglossning" - if the delivery is coming close, the mother sort of loosens up her sceleton sections, in order to be able to get the small one out through the bone ring. Concrete softening? Oh, what CAN it be called ...
> 
> Or, of course a low rate of something important, like selenium (Se), which is a common problem here, or Calcium (Ca).
> 
> Now, eh ... 97,4 that seems to be Fahrenheit. I can only unerstand Celcius (being a Swede, haha). But if there is fever, it ought to be an infection. Uterus infection seems to be a too bad possibility, let us hope it is NOT!!!


Thank you. It is early for her to be kidding, but one of the does she lost last month had a premature twin stillbirth so we both are worried about that happening again as well.

She gives them the supplements that they need as she thought that might have been the reason for the premature delivery so I hope it is not that still.

And 97.4 is Fahrenheit, should be 101.5-103.5F so she is way below they range of normal.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Aha, BELOW, thank you! Hm, that makes me think of poison as well, or anemia. I think Borrelia can give anemia, which is reasonably easy to check by the color of the tissues in the mouth and inside the eyelids. Should be pink (if not coloured!), so if it is very light or even white, the blood is not there for some reason. Is it principally possible for her to have been bitten by a sickness-carrying insect or tic? (Ooooh, my bad English, I must restart my studies!)


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be giving her CMPK and make sure her calcium is up. She could have pregnancy toxemia too.

I would treat her for polio, listeriosis and calcium.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

I JUST read about toxemia so I asked her about the urine smell and she said it smells like goat urine not sweet in any way. 

Crap, the feed store is closed for the day. She doesn't know what to do.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

She is going to the Tractor Supply farther away. The local lady told her to get an injectable vitamin complex that has B in it and I told her to pick up a bottle of B1 pills at Walmart. She's also going to get some Pedialyte or other electrolyte drink to give her. Anything else?


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Pedialyte - is that the same as Propylen-Glycole? It coult not hurt very much.

-Ah! Now I saw the picture! Hm, to me it looks like a pushing damage, as if one of the other goats had pushed her, and she was now in pain. The hind lega are a bit apart, right? Especially the left one? Could it be that easy?


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

When you aren't sure if its polio or listerosis you would treat for both. The BComplex from TSC is fine if that's all you can get but Youll have to give something like 12cc's at a time to get the amount of B1 you need. The human pills will work but the injection is much faster. You would also need to give large amounts of PenG Procaine. 3cc every 6 hours round the clock for several days.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Trollmor said:


> Pedialyte - is that the same as Propylen-Glycole? It coult not hurt very much.
> 
> -Ah! Now I saw the picture! Hm, to me it looks like a pushing damage, as if one of the other goats had pushed her, and she was now in pain. The hind lega are a bit apart, right? Especially the left one? Could it be that easy?


Pedialyte is a rehydrating drink that's usually given to human babies and kids who are vomiting or have diarrhea to keep them hydrated.

She is the lowest in the hierarchy and the billy does beat on her quite a bit... it is a thought we talked about but she just isn't recovering any? I can post another picture of her stance if you want to see?


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

crocee said:


> When you aren't sure if its polio or listerosis you would treat for both. The BComplex from TSC is fine if that's all you can get but Youll have to give something like 12cc's at a time to get the amount of B1 you need. The human pills will work but the injection is much faster. You would also need to give large amounts of PenG Procaine. 3cc every 6 hours round the clock for several days.


Is this standard or does her size matter? She's not a very big goat.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)




----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

GoatFriend said:


> Pedialyte is a rehydrating drink that's usually given to human babies and kids who are vomiting or have diarrhea to keep them hydrated.
> 
> She is the lowest in the hierarchy and the billy does beat on her quite a bit... it is a thought we talked about but she just isn't recovering any? I can post another picture of her stance if you want to see?


Aha, rehydrating, could not hurt, of course. But this with the others using their horns on her, seems to me to fit more into that standing position - small goat, not even a year yet, as far as I can see. After having found the picture - sorry I missed it - I would say put her in a single box as soon as possible, and try to understand more exactly WHERE she has the pain. A great big bruise will heal, but if something is damaged ... not so good.

Little one, I feel like stroking her very gently - she seems to need it!

And good night for now; I really must go to bed!


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Trollmor said:


> Aha, rehydrating, could not hurt, of course. But this with the others using their horns on her, seems to me to fit more into that standing position - small goat, not even a year yet, as far as I can see. After having found the picture - sorry I missed it - I would say put her in a single box as soon as possible, and try to understand more exactly WHERE she has the pain. A great big bruise will heal, but if something is damaged ... not so good.
> 
> Little one, I feel like stroking her very gently - she seems to need it!
> 
> And good night for now; I really must go to bed!


She's at least a year. My friend bought her around March of last year and she was already pregnant but lost the baby very early on (we think due to her young age) I sure hope that is all that is wrong with her but my friend is still going to treat her for everything anyways. I hope she pulls through. This is my favorite goat.

Oh, and she is in the house for now. Trying to get her temp up and rehab her.


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

GoatFriend said:


> Is this standard or does her size matter? She's not a very big goat.


The 3cc dose is for a 50lb goat


----------



## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

Trollmor said:


> Hm, I am not so good at English,
> 
> Now, eh ... 97,4 that seems to be Fahrenheit. I can only unerstand Celcius (being a Swede, haha). But if there is fever, it ought to be an infection. Uterus infection seems to be a too bad possibility, let us hope it is NOT!!!


This link may help you:http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html

It features lots of calculators to help convert from metric to US. It also features a conversion from Celius to Fahrenheit. 97.4f=36.33c.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she is getting beat up a lot, she needs to be moved out of that pen and put with another goat that won't beat her up.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

Goodness, I've tried to post like 3 times.

Her temp is up to 98.1 and she's been given the B-complex injection. That's all there is to report right now.

ksalvagno, her buddy was the doe that died last month. My friend is hoping that once she has her baby she won't be picked on as much but if she is she plans to buy another doe to keep her company.


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Since she's pregnant you can offer her a hand full of tums (no rolaids) for the calcium. I didn't see above where she was bred or I'd have suggested the calcium before. Does who are bred can go down to calcium deficiency. CMPK is best but if you don't have or can't get it you can make a kitchen sink drench that works well. 
http://goats.wetpaint.com/page/Hypocalcemia+-+CMPK+Kitchen+Recipe


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

crocee said:


> Since she's pregnant you can offer her a hand full of tums (no rolaids) for the calcium. I didn't see above where she was bred or I'd have suggested the calcium before. Does who are bred can go down to calcium deficiency. CMPK is best but if you don't have or can't get it you can make a kitchen sink drench that works well.
> http://goats.wetpaint.com/page/Hypocalcemia+-+CMPK+Kitchen+Recipe


I told her this and she said ok. She also said the local lady is preparing a copper bolus for her.


----------



## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Can you have her check her eyelid color. To me it looks like her coat is a little rough.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

dobe627 said:


> Can you have her check her eyelid color. To me it looks like her coat is a little rough.


Yes, she did. Her eyelid color was just a shade lighter than salmon. Her coat has always looked like that since she bought her.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

She says she is now coughing a bit. Like a few coughs and then she bleats loudly and then she is quiet again for an hour or so.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

If its lighter than salmon she is anemic. Her eyelids should be dark pink. You can give pig iron orally or subq, also red cell can help. I'd also look into deworming.

With low temp and coughing I would treat for pneumonia... start pen g or la 200 asap. Pneumonia or any other respiratory infection can bring them down fast. I'd also work very hard on bringing her temp up


----------



## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm just going to throw this out there. Last year I had a doe that seemed to be acting fine. She was eating and would come running to me to get grain. A couple days later I noticed she was falling behind everyone else and as I was pouring grain I noticed another doe run up to her and knock her down. That was my clue that something was wrong. Goats headbutt each other all the time but they never knock each other down. I took a fecal sample and found out she had barberpole worms and was weak from anemia. Her eyelids were a little pale and I don't know what her temp was. I treated her by de worming her and giving her Vit. B and iron shots every day. It took some time and I had to really baby her but she came out of it. I don't know if yours has barberpole worms but her being knocked over and the way she is just standing there reminded me of mine. Good luck


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

She bought wormer today. Apparently, the wormer she has been using is garbage so she got a better kind.

She says she is not good at all. She's down now, she won't pick up her head and she is bleating loudly. She has her propped up somewhat she she isn't flat on her side. She is due for another round of injections in about an hour.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thiamine is the fastest treatment for Polio, you get it from a vet only....1 cc per 25 pounds every 12 hours for 24 hours AFTER all symptoms are gone...I would also combine Pen Q since Listeriosis carries much the same symptoms as Karen stated...good luck..I dealt with Goat polio...one you get her up and going IF ITS POLIO...you need to find the source...most common is mold in feed or hay...we no longer use auto feeders do to this..here in Texas things can get pretty humid...not a good combo...


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry...once a goat is down it is so hard to get them up and going...but it sounds like she is doing everything she can...she needs to find why she is ill so she can save the rest of her goats from what ever is the problem...Since she already lost a few...I would assume its either a contagious illness or environmental ie: poison plants, mold ect... good luck and again..Im so sorry..I know this pain first hand.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If it is listeriosis she needs HIGH doses of penicillin every 6 hours, because listeriosis infects the brain and the penicillin needs to cross the blood-brain barrier. Lost a goat to this mistake a few months ago. However, what I've read of the symptoms does not sound consistent. Polio or listeriosis would most likely present with a fever rather than hypothermia; and she would have started to lose coordination before being completely unable to move. They usually go blind as well. In any case I would absolutely get a vet out ASAP if there is anyone who can come to you. With something this serious if you're just guessing at treatment you'll probably lose the goat.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Im so sorry...once a goat is down it is so hard to get them up and going...but it sounds like she is doing everything she can...she needs to find why she is ill so she can save the rest of her goats from what ever is the problem...Since she already lost a few...I would assume its either a contagious illness or environmental ie: poison plants, mold ect... good luck and again..Im so sorry..I know this pain first hand.


I don't think any of the deaths are related but I'm definitely not an experienced goat person so I'll give a run down and see if an experienced goat keeper sees something.

She lost a young billy to bloat. Her Dad bought her a round bale of cow hay and the billy went down pretty quickly after this was introduced and I researched and found it could have been a weed in the hay or something that caused it so now she only buys horse quality hay.

Then she lost a pregnant doe when she had two still born twins. We don't know what caused the still births or the doe to die.

And now this one.

She's pretty upset. She said goats were never this hard to keep when she was younger. They had a huge herd and didn't do anything but keep them in a pasture and worm them every now and then. None of these supplements and such that she is doing now. So I don't know, it sucks though, losing these guys.


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

GoatFriend said:


> I don't think any of the deaths are related but I'm definitely not an experienced goat person so I'll give a run down and see if an experienced goat keeper sees something.
> 
> She lost a young billy to bloat. Her Dad bought her a round bale of cow hay and the billy went down pretty quickly after this was introduced and I researched and found it could have been a weed in the hay or something that caused it so now she only buys horse quality hay.
> Round bales set in fields a lot of times and can become moldy due to rain/bird droppings, sometimes chemical flyovers drift and land on the bales. It could have also been that he liked the new hay so much he gorged himself causing enterotoxemia.
> ...


I answered within the quoted area.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

crocee said:


> I answered within the quoted area.


That makes a lot of sense. Her guys are backyard pets, it is a fairly large pen but I can see how the limited foraging could cause deficiencies. I know they planned to expand in the spring but the way this is going she may not have any goats left come spring. 

I texted her to see how she was doing and no reply so she either made it and got her second dose of shots or she passed and my friend went to bed. I'm praying she's still hanging in there.


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Deficiencies become worse and worms build up because theres no break to kill them off. This is why goats are hard keepers at times. Its not so much the goats themselves but rather the conditions we create. In an ideal situation goats would be rotated every 3 to 6 months so the worms in the ground had a chance to die off due to no hosts. Small back yard farms arent able to do this with any degree of efficiency so the worms build up. We use the wormers that we have available but unless you kill most all of them off those that survive become resistant. Then we have to use a different, stronger medication and the cycle keeps repeating until we have nothing left to treat with. This is why the fecal test is so important . This tells you both if you need to worm and if its working.


----------



## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

we've had goats for 3 years now, and did perfectly fine having the males and females together and having suprise babies... but since we have upgraded our farm and seperated males and females, we've lost a new born 1 day old kid, and had a mother miscarry her babies after coming down with coccidiosis. but we seperated them so that we can be sure of due dates from now on, and also because we gave a male goat to a friend of ours (who also had males and females in the same pen) and after he was there for 3 1/2 months he not only butted the pregnant female alot, but he pushed her to a corner and repeated to butt her until he killed her. so now for my little herd is seperated. I am so sorry that you are going through this hard time. from the pictures i can tell by the way that she is standing that she is cold and doesnt feel well. are her poops solid? or diahrea?


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I would be treating for polio, hypocalcaemia, preg tox and going by the state of her coat and that she is skinny, worms. 

But i hate to say it, when they are down and bleating they are usually dying.


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry you and your friend are going through this! I hope she finds out the cause so she can eradicate the problem....
I know how frustrating it is when new to goats. I lost two young bucklings and it's horrible to see. 
Good luck and let us know what happens.


----------



## GoatFriend (Jan 26, 2013)

She didn't make it to her second round of medicine unfortunately. I am going to pass on what I learned here though. Thank you all so much!


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh, how awful, after all you and they have tried! I will read the thread later on, and see what I can learn (also about inches and stuff ...)

I do not find the weeping smiley, so I make one: :'(


----------

