# What do you think of prong/pinch collars?



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey, 

I got to thinking about prong/pinch collars just a bit ago and wondered what people actually thought of them. They're becoming more and more popular in our area for meat goats. 

But anyway, what do you personally think about them?


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

My experience is with dogs and I can say that prong collars give a well spread out pressure distributed evenly around the neck and do not hurt dogs like some people think. They are not meant for yanking the dog around though.


----------



## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

What are they using them for on goats? They don't leave them on all the time do they? Are they just for shows? Seems odd to me. 

I keep great danes and own a couple of these collars. The one time I really needed it, it drove the dog beserk. I was lucky I had a very big man holding on to him. They worked great when not really needed. They are very good for fine control in training. You can't leave them on, the dog can't lay down flat without getting poked. 

I'm not sure what the use for them would be with goats. 

Jan


----------



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

We just bought one to train our buckling to walk on a lead. The boers can get to 300 plus pounds and are extremely strong, so that's why some use them. Our buckling used to jump in the air to try to leap away from us, choking himself in the process. Knot head didn't learn and would be gasping with his tongue hanging out but we couldn't take off the slack until we reached him to hold him (constant pull). For a little guy he's extremely strong.
The prong collar was an instant fix. He still pulled some at first, but no jumping and leaping. He quickly settled down within about two minutes. And the best part, it never choked him one time. :applaud: He soon was moving around the yard in a wide circle like a pro. There's still a few kinks but it was an 80% instant improvement. They aren't left on all the time (we don't leave any collar on). It's just when they are trained for show or shown.
To me it seems much more gentle and humane than him being choked constantly. Once he figured out what was what, it was very gentle pressure to start and stop. I love it.


----------



## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

That makes sense. Sort of the same as for dog training.

Jan


----------



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Yeah, I haven't shown yet but I saw them in the goat magazines and they looked interesting so picked one up at our feed store for $10.  I was pleasantly surprised. If I was showing one of those huge boer bucks I'd probably use a back-up collar, though, for the reason you mentioned.


----------



## OhCee (Feb 26, 2010)

Dani-1995 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I got to thinking about prong/pinch collars just a bit ago and wondered what people actually thought of them. They're becoming more and more popular in our area for meat goats.
> 
> But anyway, what do you personally think about them?


Prong collars are VERY different than pinch collars.

I have seen more dogs injured by their owners' ignorance with pinch collars, jerking them around, damaging/crushing trachea/esophagus, than any other training tool. Have a local dog trainer show you proper technique for pinch collars. It's not something that can be adequately described in words without demonstration. Quick release is key, and not over-correcting.

Prong collars are a good tool, if managed properly by the handler- but that means training. They are NOT meant for the handler to make any correction (unless you REALLY know exactly what you're doing) to whatever animal is on the other side of the lead. They are generally self-correcting collars that apply pressure to sensitive points on the neck when the animal pulls away from the lead in any direction. Don't tug/pull/jerk a prong collar.

I can see why a 250 lb buck would be a candidate for a prong collar. However, if you can downgrade to a halter after initial training, you may not get so many sneers from onlookers. Halter training is useful for larger stock. It's like power-steering for your animal, if they will mind you.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I've had big dogs all my life but never used one. Guess we always trained them from 8 weeks on that the collar and leash are good and they do fine. But I know thats not the case with some dogs even after training (had one like that too). 

I'm thinking of getting a couple just for showing. My wether will not stand still, won't walk unless he has somewhere he wants to go and absolutley will not let you touch his back feet for more than 3 seconds at a time. I talked to some people I know and they all say get a prong for the two shows (one this Friday and one easter Monday) but then try to get him broken to another lead during the summer. This is a goat that was completly wild a month ago so I'm lucky I can even get a lead on him at all. I can hold him just fine but like Perfect 7 said about the buckling, he chokes himself and that looks bad to me in the showring.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am undecided which route I should go. I was considering a pronge collar but not sure it would help. We have a doeling that would sooner be dragged than walked. Sometimes she's very good though. We use a nylon collar right now, but she's just not a consistantly good walker. So I wonder if this could help? If they show it may be in about 2 months.... My daughters doeling is like...come on lets go and she drags my daughter around ready to go LOL So they are opposites right now!


----------



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

The kind we use is a prong collar. It's nice because links can be added or removed for a good fit. It has two settings. I can hook the lead through both rings so that it doesn't tighten up, or through just one ring so that it tightens similar to a choke collar but not as tight. I have used it on the non-tighten option only. It's nice that I don't have to attempt to drag him to get him to walk or choke him. I plan to move him to a regular collar once he learns to walk. My 14-yr-old daughter can now walk him without a problem so it's much easier. I guess it also teaches them to carry their head higher to move away from the pressure. The prongs are rounded and blunt so they aren't going to break the skin and cause damage without some major pressure (I can't even imagine!)
The buckling also doesn't seem as "freaked out" about being walked now, like he's more calm and not working himself up into a frenzy. I definitely don't pull or jerk with the prong collar. Any pressure at all is from him pulling or dragging, but it's MUCH less than with the regular collar. I get to stay on my feet! :greengrin: Our wethers were started on regular collars at 3-4 weeks of age for a few minutes a day so they walk with no problems at all. Much easier.


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

HoosierShadow said:


> I am undecided which route I should go. I was considering a pronge collar but not sure it would help. We have a doeling that would sooner be dragged than walked. Sometimes she's very good though. We use a nylon collar right now, but she's just not a consistantly good walker. So I wonder if this could help? If they show it may be in about 2 months.... My daughters doeling is like...come on lets go and she drags my daughter around ready to go LOL So they are opposites right now!


I don't think it would work well for an animal that would rather be dragged. If it is dragging you, that is another thing. My dog walks nicely on lead in the backyard, or in a training building, but get her in sight of a moving car and all bets are off. I use the prong collar on her when we walk near the road, and she has finally stopped lunging at the cars. I got tired of getting dragged off my feet.

Does your 'dragger' flop down on the ground rather than walk? I have one that is that stubborn, its kind of funny (If I really have to go somewhere I just scoop her up, yet another reason I like the mini goats)


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I think prong collars are great for the larger goats that need something a little tougher, but I wouldn't use them on dairy goats whose skin is supposed to be very soft and thin. I showed boer goats for a gal and she uses them on a few of her huge boer does during showing. They work pretty well for that. I do think that the handler needs to know how to use them though and a prong collar really isn't suited for all goats. 

I don't have any experience with pinch collars though?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I seen one idiot at a boer show... that had one on her show Doe...in my opinion... the Doe wasn't misbehaving what -so -ever ..I think this girl ..was just having a bad day and taking it out on this poor Doe...  this girl was yanking her all over the place being really mean..... she and her goat where kicked out of the show by the judge...because he seen how she was treating her in the ring... after she was booted out...she yanked and pulled even harder and the poor doe.. was screaming and very stressed......we yelled at her to knock it off and asked her if we could use the collar on her... :doh: This girl... is most likely one... that didn't know how to properly use it in the 1st place..... it made me sick to watch and the Doe should of won good placing... as she was a real pretty Doe...  


I also bought a buck... that was showed by the previous owner that used one of those collars ... everytime... I just wanted to take off a simple rope... he would freak out and start backing up.... he is getting better about it now... but I believe... that he was mistreated with this type of collar....I personally don't like them...I learned from others using them ......and..don't want to hurt my animals...  Just my opinion...


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

That is awful Pam! I would be so pissed off if I saw someone treating their goat like that.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That is awful Pam! I would be so pissed off if I saw someone treating their goat like that.


 I know...I wasn't having happy thoughts....and it saddened me so much... to have even witnessed it... let alone... children that had to be force as well....


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Makes me wonder how they treat their goats when no one is around.  Poor things.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I know...it must be torture living with them......


----------



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

That's horrible. She sounds like a spoiled brat who was more into winning pretty ribbons than loving, and loving to show, her animals. I'm glad she got booted and hope they ban her permanently.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I know...me too....she shouldn't even be able to own a goat ....  :hug:


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

the reason one would use a prong collar is that it puts more pressure on the goat when applied. pressure is force over area. if you lean on a needle with all your weight it hurts a lot more than leaning on a wall with all your might. that is why I use a rope halter rather than webbing. same theory but less extreme. 
I also don't use a collar because, if you think about it that is where the pulling power is. if you use a halter or the collar up by the chin then you have more leverage. you could just use a thin rope or braided leather...... same principle. I definitely see that with a goat that large you might need the little bit extra that the prongs give you. just remember to be fair and to take the pressure off when they do what you ask them to. otherwise they will just get insensitive and angry/unhappy.

just be fair and don't abuse the power you have

Miranda


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I got my prong today. So far it works great! I'm one who does NOT like an animal to be abused so of course mine are treated fairly. My wether sets up and stands still now and walks when asked. He's learned that if he does like he's supposed to then less pressure is on collar. He still acts up sometimes, but its a goat- I expect it! 

Prong collars IMO have there place. If you get easily frustrated with things then don't use one because it does take patience. They work well for showing and practice for showing but for everyday things (hoof trimming, baths.. things like that) a dog collar and lead works.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

That poor doe! People like that should not own an animal! I can not stad for someone to be mean to an animal... makes me want to do the samething to them!


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

I also know alot of people with long-haired dogs use the prong collar b/c it doesn't get tangled like the pinch collar. The thing I like about it is that I don't have to pull on it. The misuse of it is what gives it a bad name. You should not be yanking the animal around on the prong, which is why I wouldn't think it would work on an animal that won't move, b/c you would have to pull. I don't think it would be a problem with dairy goats - if you can use them on dogs, you should be able to use them on goats, provided you aren't yanking them around all over the place. They are not allowed to be used during shows either - they are supposed to be a training tool, once your animal is ready for the ring, they should be trained. 

I will say that even in the dog training club I am in, there are many hot debates about which collars we will and won't allow in our training building - and it differs depending on whether the person is a member who is skilled with training dogs or whether they are a member of the general public who comes to us for help. And it also depends on the training director for that year - some of them have banned prong collars and we have to go along with that, we had one person running for the position who wanted to ban all training type collars - she wanted buckle collars or halti's only, she thought regular choke chains were cruel. (she lost by the way, no one wanted to go down that road)


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I have never trained a goat but will be starting soon. The adults I have have buckle collars. Animal cruelty is a crime and that is horrible. If anyone in NJ sees issues like this let me know. My dog training company has helped in prosecuting dog trainers that use cruel methods with the State Corporal that prosecutes animal cruelty and a formal complaint could be filed. My experience again is with dogs. Pznlvy is right about goat that wont come a prong collar would not help and quite possibly make the situation worse. 
With dogs halters are for pulling not stoping pulling. Halters are used to stimulate a dogs reflex to pull or resist pressure. That is why many people have issues (ie... my dog pulls me and I got a halter and now he pulls me even more) of course he does. Where are halters used correctly well...... on sled dogs, packing dogs or a very well behaved dog. I don't know if one would elicit the same reflex response with a goat but I would guess so.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That poor doe! People like that should not own an animal! I can not stad for someone to be mean to an animal... makes me want to do the samething to them!


 I agree..  :hug:


----------

