# Verify good milk line?



## smcinrox (Feb 1, 2014)

Hello,
My wife and I are looking to get a couple of goats for milk. I have read it is very important to verify the goat you buy is from good milking lines.Can anyone tell me how to verify a goat is from good milking lines? 
Thanks,
Sam


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You'd want to look for any star milkers in the pedigree (does that have earned their production awards). You'd also want to ask to see some of the does in the goats bloodline (dam, granddam on both sides, etc) if they have any to show you.
As well as looking for bucks with awards as well.

What breed are you looking into?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Go on the adgagenetics.org site, lookup the goat in question, look at the goats dam, granddam, etc on both side and click on USDA Data on the left hand side, it will open a new page and will show milk records on those goats if they have been on DHIR milk test. It will show in lbs how much milk the goat produced during their lactation and on each individual test day.


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## smcinrox (Feb 1, 2014)

Little-bits-N-pieces,
I'm looking for 2 Alpine does. You say to look for goats with production awards. Is this something the owner provides. What does an official award look like. I'm confused on how this is all regulated.


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## smcinrox (Feb 1, 2014)

ptgoats45,
The adgagenetics.org site sounds like a good resource. For a goat to be found on this site, I assume it has to be registered. Is this correct. I guess what I'm asking is if I were to find a non registered Alpine, would there be any way to check out it's milk line?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

If the does are registered it will show the awards on the papers.

For example: Sweet-Dreams TheLightOfTheMoon 1*M
Means she is a 1st generation star milker. She earned over 18 points on her test and was awarded her star at a one day milking competition.

If there are any goats on the papers with any number and a *M it means that doe was a star milker.

For Alpines, Sodium Oaks, Clovertop's, Hoach's, Brant's, Willow Run, Nixon, Hill n Holler, Chataeu Deville, Redwood Hills, Emporer, Sand-Dance, Thunderhead, Semperviren, Cherry Glen, Pearl Valley, Iron Rod, Tempo Aquila, Shining Moon, Granite-Oaks, Tim-Tam, Tangleroot, Serendipity, Heaven-Sent-Farms, Tenmile, Sandstorms, and Sweet-Dreams to name a few, are all very good milking lines.


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> If the does are registered it will show the awards on the papers.
> 
> For example: Sweet-Dreams TheLightOfTheMoon 1*M
> Means she is a 1st generation star milker. She earned over 18 points on her test and was awarded her star at a one day milking competition.
> ...


If the does are on a monthly test (DHIA) they earn their stars a slightly different way, but you will be able to see their montly milk weights on the adgagenetics website.

You might also look for bucks around who are producing high milking daughters. What state/region are you in?


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

Interesting... What does it mean on the papers if it says: ++*B or +*B or has a number in front of the *M, like 6?



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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

That is for bucks only, and obviously bucks don't produce milk, LOL.  :laugh: That means their offspring have done well at shows, LAed well, and possibly gotten their Stars. If I'm wrong, anyone please correct me!

For example, two of my does are sired by *B Hull's WREC Journeys End. He is sired by GCH +*B Willow Run Elvis Costello, who earned his + with lots of good kids. Because Journeys End is out of a GCH doe, and a buck with his Star, he is automatically a Star buck. He can earn his + by his kids doing well. Does that make any sense?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Even a good pedigree can hide a bad milker. If she is in milk now, ask to see her milked out twice in a one day. This will give you a idea of her current milking ability. But unless you have a idea for what you are going to do with the milk, a high production doe maybe to much milk for your needs.


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

farmchick897 said:


> Interesting... What does it mean on the papers if it says: ++*B or +*B or has a number in front of the *M, like 6?


Ready for the long explanation 

*B = Good parents. Mom was a *M (in both Fat and lbs of milk) and Dad was either a *B himself or a +B

+B = There are several ways to get at + on a buck but it is a reflection of their offspring. So if you have three *M daughters or if you have 2 daughters and one +B son. The first plus and the second plus are earned two different ways but they can be multiple combinations of good sons and good daughters.

*M = on a one day test - earning 18 points a particular combination of lbs of milk, milk fat, days in milk, etc. On the 305 test (where the goat is tested monthly) they need to earn a certain quantity of milk over the year. For example, for a standard size goat that freshened on her 2nd birthday it is 1500 lbs over her time on test.

The number in front of the *M is how many generations there are with a consistent *M. So a 1*M is the first doe in her immediate family to earn her *M. If her daughter then earns her *M she is a 2*M, her granddaughter will be a 3*M and so on and so forth.

And in case you this is the next question to come up:

CH = three show wins under specific conditions.

GCH = a *M who also earned her CH title

SG = Being in the 85% of type and production for her breed

SGCH = earning her CH title and also earning her SG award.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks, even more complicated trying to understand all the numbers on a cow registration. 
I do have to add. The doe I had with all the 6*M and +*B in her pedigree also is the doe who had horrible tasting milk and came up positive for CAE. So I would taste the milk on a doe when buying before I ever looked at the production aspect. 


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## smcinrox (Feb 1, 2014)

Thank you to everyone who replied. This is good information to help us in our search for our first goat.


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

I would like to add that rather than relying solely on the DHIR records in order to establish that there is milk there you also need to click PRODUCTION on the ADGA GENETICS link.

If a doe or her relatives in the pedigree truly have milk then they will have a PTAM (Predicted transmitting ability for milk) that is positive like +100. If the doe and her relative are below breed average then the PTA might be something like -100.

Because of the bell shaped curve is is possible for a doe to milk a lot but come from non milky lines and then any kid she throws be a low milker.

The PTA's are based on the animals DHIR scores as well as the production of all the relatives. I find if I am looking for milk the PTA is a much better indicator that milk "Runs in the family" than an individual DHIR record.

Also a doe only has to produce around 1500 lbs to get her *M.

So while a doe being a *M tells you she produced at least 1500 lbs for saanens for instance the breed average is 2500 lbs so a *M knowing nothing else does not tell you if a doe milks above or below her breed average.


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