# Teeny Tiny Nigerian babies! What is the smallest YOU have had?



## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

Hi all,
Well our last babies of the year were born the other night around 1 am. Our doe Snickerdoodle (gold with a white belt) had triplets (2 Does, 1 buck), but sadly one of the does was born not breathing and we couldn't bring her round. Of the babies, the one that didn't make it was huge (comparatively speaking) weighing around 3.5 - 4 lbs at birth. The two that did make it are 1.5 lbs (doeling) and 1.75 lbs (buckling). They are so tiny that they can't suck the bottle yet so I am feeding them hourly with a dropper, putting the milk in their mouths and letting them swallow and repeating. I did get at LEAST 1.5 ounces of colostrum in each of them within the first 8 hours after birth. I know that 4 hours is ideal but there was no way to get them to drink that much that quickly.
They have both passed the meuconium and are making nice yellow poops and they are pee-ing. I have a few queations...
1. Will the sucking reflex strengthen and they will eventually get the hang of it? If so, how long does that usually take?
2. What is the smallest baby NIGERIAN goats you have ever had on your farms that successfully made it?
3. Any thoughts as to why one baby was almost 3x's the size of the other two?
(We give our does free choice mineral, replamin, supplements, and probios regularly along with their forage, alfalfa pellets, and goat feed). Could they have been from different matings? (Our doe let the buck breed her two days in a row, multiple times each day)
4. Would you call these two babies chamoisee, or ??? I'm still getting my feet under me with coat descriptions. These two were a fun surprise. They are a chocolate brown with black boots. Not much of a dorsal stripe that I can see YET. Also their bellies don't look dark. If not chamoisee, what would you describe them as? Both their parents were in the red/gold family with white.
Any suggestions or comments you have are welcome! (Sorry a few of the pics are a little dark)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How cute. 

I had a boer kid weighing a whopping, 1 1/2 lbs. We called her squishy.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

CGHomestead said:


> Hi all,
> Well our last babies of the year were born the other night around 1 am. Our doe Snickerdoodle (gold with a white belt) had triplets (2 Does, 1 buck), but sadly one of the does was born not breathing and we couldn't bring her round. Of the babies, the one that didn't make it was huge (comparatively speaking) weighing around 3.5 - 4 lbs at birth. The two that did make it are 1.5 lbs (doeling) and 1.75 lbs (buckling). They are so tiny that they can't suck the bottle yet so I am feeding them hourly with a dropper, putting the milk in their mouths and letting them swallow and repeating. I did get at LEAST 1.5 ounces of colostrum in each of them within the first 8 hours after birth. I know that 4 hours is ideal but there was no way to get them to drink that much that quickly.
> They have both passed the meuconium and are making nice yellow poops and they are pee-ing. I have a few queations...
> 1. Will the sucking reflex strengthen and they will eventually get the hang of it? If so, how long does that usually take?
> ...


Did you give them any b complex? Or bose? Or replamin or selenium/vit e gel? That might help with the sucking. B complex will give energies.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Cute! I'd give .25cc B Complex orally. I'd also tube them. They really need more nourishment to strengthen.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Smallest I've seen is this lil guy, never got his weight though here's pics at 4 days old. Unfortunately he passed shortly after. He was in quads and one was DOA and he just didn't make it after a couple weeks.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Snickerdoodle is very beautiful!

I also definitely recommend tubing , I promise it's not as scary as it sounds! And you'll be able to get them more adequate nutrition. Be sure the milk is at 100*F as they probably can't regulate temps well (even inside!)

No answers for you other than "these things happen". They seem particularly fluffy! Is that normal in your ND newborns?


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

It just happens. One can end up with a thicker cord and can hog all the nutrients. Perfect minerals and feed can’t change or prevent that.


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Smallest I've seen is this lil guy, never got his weight though here's pics at 4 days old. Unfortunately he passed shortly after. He was in quads and one was DOA and he just didn't make it after a couple weeks.
> 
> View attachment 161945
> View attachment 161947


That is really sad his coloring was really pretty, though. He looks like he was a pretty healthy little thing though, definitely bigger than our little beans. I was really upset about our little girl who didn't make it. We named her Aurora after the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale and buried her under a beautiful Cypress tree. She was so pretty, mostly white with brown polka dots, almost like an Appaloosa horse, with blue eyes and wattles. It was the first loss we've had on the farm. I know it happens, but you just always cross your fingers it won't happen to you.


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Snickerdoodle is very beautiful!
> 
> I also definitely recommend tubing , I promise it's not as scary as it sounds! And you'll be able to get them more adequate nutrition. Be sure the milk is at 100*F as they probably can't regulate temps well (even inside!)
> 
> No answers for you other than "these things happen". They seem particularly fluffy! Is that normal in your ND newborns?


Hey everyone,
I wanted to post an update about our little beans. They are getting stronger by the day. I have been dropper feeding them at least 1 ounce (usually 1.5 ounces) every few hours, day and night. The milk is always at least 104, but they seem to like it as high as 106. It's a real balancing act though because I usually have to reheat it halfway through because they drink so slowly, it gets too cold. So we take a break and reheat. We are still having nice yellow poopies and pee-ing (usually on me) and we (they) sleep a LOT! Sleeping means growing, right? But they are getting more sure footed. The little boy, Dorian, actually latched on the bottle for a short time at the last couple feedings (6 am and 8 am). The little girl, Winnie, hasn't gotten the hang of that yet, but has learned not to fight so hard and swallows the milk along with moving her mouth. I feel she is not far off from a latch. 
I am getting less worried about them by the day, although Dorian is definitely more advanced than Winnie and I am still very gentle and observant of her. 
Question: I have heard of "tubing" before but have never had to do it. You are right. It sounds terrifying. Number one, I'm not sure how to know I'm in the esophagus and not the windpipe. Number two, I'm so afraid it will hurt them. How do you do this safely?
Good idea about the Vitamin B complex. I have some I use for shots but I didn't know if it was safe to give this orally. Are these babies too fragile for a shot?
Thank you for complimenting mama! She really is pretty and has a cute personality too, except for the fact that she doesn't like me LOL 
I guess I would say yeah... all the babies we have had born here are "fluffy". I never had anything to compare it to so I never knew they weren't all little balls of fluff when they come out. They are sooo darn cute. As relieved as I will be to get them outta the woods and get a good night's sleep, I have to admit, I'm gonna miss having them snuggled right up beside me in the bed at night while we are sleeping. 
I'm still interested in hearing your opinions, as well as any stories about the smallest babies you've ever had born (particularly Nigerians). AND any help with color descriptions is always welcome. Thanks!


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> How cute.
> 
> I had a boer kid weighing a whopping, 1 1/2 lbs. We called her squishy.


I just realized you said Boer, which makes it all the more scary. YIKES! Those are full sized goats so their babies should be a LOT bigger than 1.5 lbs I would think!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give B complex orally for the little ones but to be most effective it should be given within 24 hours of birth and I prefer within 12 hours of birth. If I have slow kids, they get it almost immediately. It wakes their brain up and helps them get going.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Tubing:
You need a feeding tube, long orange catheter type tube, (PBS and Jeffers sell them as lamb tubes)
A dosage syringe, large and holds 3-4 oz. fluid. Has a catheter tip.
Warmed milk in the dosage syringe.

Regarding tubing, I am sure there are videos on the Internet as to how. But, measure from the mouth to just past the ribs where the stomach is, mark on the tube, warm it with hot water and slowly insert it with the neck extended. The tube should go all the way to the line. (Yep, sound way scaryer than it actually is!) listen in the tube, you shouldn't hear breathing but maybe some gurgling.

Have the dosage syringe full of milk and either gently push the plunger or let gravity (minus the plunger) drain the syringe. Be sure and remove the tube from the syringe and put your thumb over the tube sealing it when you pull it out, gently, smoothly and quickly. No milk will get in the lungs that way.

Once you do it a few times, it is easy.

If someone else can explain better, please do. I know how to tube, it's hard to describe!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

In this case I disagree with tubing. Go to petco or whatever and grab the little cat bottle with a bunch of nipples in the wrap. There is a raccoon nipple that is a very soft, very small version of a goat nipple. I've used this to get premies and dummies going many times. 
A one pound goat needs one ounce per feeding. 3 or4 ounces might kill them.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The smallest kid I ever had laying next to the weakest. The year I had Campylobactor in my herd. The white guy was 4 lbs. He lived and was bought for a herd sire. The little girl never ended up weighted but I'd guess 1.5 lbs? She was sold to a veal farm at breeding age. They are full size LaMancha goats.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

:bonk: :imsorry: I am sorry, I didn't mean to give the baby 4 oz. I meant that the Dosage syringe that has the catheter tip is a 3 or 4 oz. syringe. I was not clear when I said full. (I mean have the syringe ready with milk.) Darn, I better just not answer, I'd feel terrible if I were the cause of a mishap or worse.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No, your fine, I just wanted to clarify. The instruction is helpful and may be needed. 

These babies really need vit B and selenium E paste though. They need the resources their dam didn't have.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

CGHomestead said:


> That is really sad his coloring was really pretty, though. He looks like he was a pretty healthy little thing though, definitely bigger than our little beans. I was really upset about our little girl who didn't make it. We named her Aurora after the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale and buried her under a beautiful Cypress tree. She was so pretty, mostly white with brown polka dots, almost like an Appaloosa horse, with blue eyes and wattles. It was the first loss we've had on the farm. I know it happens, but you just always cross your fingers it won't happen to you.


Thank you! His coloring was gorgeous. He was pretty weak and I always thought I could tell something wasn't right with him.

Funny, the mama goat in the picture is named Aurora.

His two brothers are thriving and just as beautiful in color!!


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to post a quick update. The babies are 3 and a half days old and getting stronger every day. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply with help and suggestions. We gave the babies .25 ml of B complex in their bottle this morning. They have both successfully latched onto the bottle a few times. Dorian, the buckling has latched at almost every feeding since yesterday afternoon and his sister, Winnie, usually gets a latch for at least a few seconds before having to "come up for air." They consistently drink between 1.5 and 2 ounces, and once Dorian even drank 2.5 ounces! In the past 3 days they have both gained weight. Winnie has gone from 1 lb 8 oz to 1 lb 12 oz (a gain of 4 oz!!!) and Dorian has gone from 1 lb 12 oz to 2 LBS (a gain of 6 oz)!!! They are getting more mobile and like to play around on the bed, and try to climb the pillows. They still sleep with me because I feed them every 3-4 hours through the night. Thank you for all the guidance regarding tubing, but thankfully I don't think we are going to have to do that. 
Here are some pics. 
P.S. Is there a pattern name for chocolate goats with black boots, but no other black markings or stripes on the back, face, or belly?


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Thank you! His coloring was gorgeous. He was pretty weak and I always thought I could tell something wasn't right with him.
> 
> Funny, the mama goat in the picture is named Aurora.
> 
> ...


So cute. The one on the left reminds me a lot of the mama of these babies, Snickerdoodle!


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

Thank you very much for taking the time to describe the process. It does sound scary, but I remember how scary it was the first time i had to give one of our first girls a shot. Now it's not that bad at all, at least for me. Luckily for me, "cookies" and carrots help reduce the duration of a goat grudge! LOL


Goats Rock said:


> Tubing:
> You need a feeding tube, long orange catheter type tube, (PBS and Jeffers sell them as lamb tubes)
> A dosage syringe, large and holds 3-4 oz. fluid. Has a catheter tip.
> Warmed milk in the dosage syringe.
> ...


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

CGHomestead said:


> Hi everyone,
> I just wanted to post a quick update. The babies are 3 and a half days old and getting stronger every day. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply with help and suggestions. We gave the babies .25 ml of B complex in their bottle this morning. They have both successfully latched onto the bottle a few times. Dorian, the buckling has latched at almost every feeding since yesterday afternoon and his sister, Winnie, usually gets a latch for at least a few seconds before having to "come up for air." They consistently drink between 1.5 and 2 ounces, and once Dorian even drank 2.5 ounces! In the past 3 days they have both gained weight. Winnie has gone from 1 lb 8 oz to 1 lb 12 oz (a gain of 4 oz!!!) and Dorian has gone from 1 lb 12 oz to 2 LBS (a gain of 6 oz)!!! They are getting more mobile and like to play around on the bed, and try to climb the pillows. They still sleep with me because I feed them every 3-4 hours through the night. Thank you for all the guidance regarding tubing, but thankfully I don't think we are going to have to do that.
> Here are some pics.
> P.S. Is there a pattern name for chocolate goats with black boots, but no other black markings or stripes on the back, face, or belly?


No idea on the coloring.
I really hate this word, it is so misused, cute. But those kids are CUTE!
It looks like your little buckling is working on his "rut attitude" already.


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## Andrewjoseph (Mar 25, 2018)

Question: I have heard of "tubing" before but have never had to do it. You are right. It sounds terrifying. Number one, I'm not sure how to know I'm in the esophagus and not the windpipe. Number two, I'm so afraid it will hurt them. How do you do this safely?

The dropper is dangerous with a very weal/small goat that cant protect its airway. Even though its a dropper they can let a few drops of colostrum into their lungs. This is probably deadly for a sick newborn. This is the main reason the dropper is ill advised. 

The tube feeding is much easier, and after one time it will be very easy.
there are a couple of good descriptions of how to do this safely, but Univ. of Iowa article stated that the safest way to check if you are in the stomach and not the trachea is that you insert the tube with the plunger connected to the syringe. When you are at the desired depth, pull back on plunger. If it easily pulls back you are in the trachea/upper airway. This material is hard and inflexible. If the plunger stops and it can not be pulled back after a cc or so, this the the stomach. This area is very soft and easily suctions to the catheter and no air can come back. You could also suck out stomach contents, which would also confirm placement at the same time. 

If the goat is crying and making noise, great, because this also confirms that you are not in the trachea. It could not cry out and make noise if it were. 

The tube gets cleaned out with very diluted bleach solution and soaked. It does not need to be perfectly sterile because the stomach is not a sterile area. You can get more colostrum in quicker and safely with the tube.


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## momto6ls (Aug 15, 2014)

OH MY GOSH! They are adorable! I have standard Nubians. I can't imagine having such "little beans". And you are amazing keeping them fed around the clock. Done that a few times and I know how hard it is. I hope you are keeping mama in the loop. She worked hard to get those babies here and deserves to see how well they are doing. 

:goodjob:


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## CGHomestead (Aug 6, 2019)

momto6ls said:


> OH MY GOSH! They are adorable! I have standard Nubians. I can't imagine having such "little beans". And you are amazing keeping them fed around the clock. Done that a few times and I know how hard it is. I hope you are keeping mama in the loop. She worked hard to get those babies here and deserves to see how well they are doing.
> 
> :goodjob:


Thanks for the encouragement! I have really great news! The babies were 1 week old on Wednesday, and they have both made great weight gains. Little Winnie went from 1.5 lbs at birth to 2.5 lbs at one week and Dorian went from 1.75 lbs to 3 lbs 3 oz! They are both expert latchers at bottle time and they love to bounce and hop and climb. They are ALMOST sleeping through the night and when they do, they get to move outside to the regular baby goat nursery! Thank you to everyone for the great advice and instructions. I still need help with their coloring though if anyone wants to weigh in. Chocolate and white with black boots... Any ideas?


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

CGHomestead said:


> I still need help with their coloring though if anyone wants to weigh in. Chocolate and white with black boots... Any ideas?


I say they're some type of Chamoisee because of the black on the tip of their noses. In my experience it's easier to tell the coloring the older and bigger they get.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

This might be helpful to figure out the coloring. http://www.nigeriandwarfcolors.com/


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