# Emergency question! I hope someone is here!



## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I have a doe who has decided to deliver today! I knew the due date was soon, but I'm thinking she's quite a bit early. She went posty this morning, and the first bubble burst about 4 o'clock. She wasn't really having what I'd call active contractions. And still isn't. She is streaming a little, but she's been doing that since about 6 o'clock this evening. I think most of what I am seeing is the first sac that burst, hanging. She pushed once, earlier, and I saw a little bit of a bubble, but then she just stopped! I don't know if I disrupted her or what, because she's generally a very easy going doe. I'm not sure if I need to just leave her alone or if I need to go in. I don't want to go in if I don't have to. Ideas??? Please???

Angie :hair:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

ooh...the baby might be stuck...I've never had it happen but if you can get him in position...or call a vet..hope everything goes good. Maybe try calling one of the experts i know sweetgoats, allison, stacey etc has their numbers on the forum


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

The bad thing is I am going to have to try to do whatever by myself... don't know if I can find someone to help.  Vet is out of the question--45 minutes away and super hard to reach.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

go in and see what you can feel... you can call me.... 619 922 8827


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

angie do you want me to call you?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

She got a hold of me. Waiting on her to call me back if she needs.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

ok... is she doing okay?


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

was she able to feel anything when she went in? Was she able to0 move the baby at all? Kidding can be so stressful! (on the owner)


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

She needs to wake hubby up and get stuff cleaned and ready to go in. Doe is only giving little pushes every once and a while. 
The funniest thing is I was sound asleep and couldn't figure out why I had set my alarm on my phone. Once I finally got the sound off I realized it was someone calling me. :doh:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

ok hope everything goes good!! *crosses fingers*


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I am up and awake if needed ..... we are just about to eat dinner so I will be up for a while! 509 499 5828


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Well, I guess you're up for a while! hope all goes okay.

Sounds like the baby is just tumbled up in there. Sometimes, I've found, if the doe doesn't want to push, once you untangle the babies, they'll got down to work.


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Ok.. I am TOTALLY confused!!! I went in with hubby holding her. She laid down... lots of crying. I DO NOT FEEL ANYTHING!!!
Nothing at all!!! I started looking at what is left and I swear it's placenta! I went in twice.  I bounced her and I don't feel anything. She is a really deep doe, and I am new at this, so I hope I'm not missing anything...


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

How far did you go in? Are you sure she didn't drop a kid somewhere?


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Question... how FAR in do I need to go??? Maybe I didn't go in far enough. I was in about 6-8 inches and I rotated my hand around, pushing while she was pushing, trying to feel something, anything. The only thing I felt at all was what felt like a wall... I'm guessing the uterine wall. No bright red blood or brown blood--just pink. And what is hanging from her is long and lumpy looking..


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

take your cell phone to the barn or bring the doe to the house


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

On a really long doe I went in up to my elbow once. What you describing does sound like placenta...

Did you feel another bubble in there? You can call me again if you want.


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

I have her isolated in a corner of the barn. She's been there since about 6. If she delivered one, it would have had to have been before I put her up. That's always possible, I guess, but good grief! I don't know where she would have had it, because she's been in the barn all day long. There are no hiding places. I hope she didn't dispose of it or something. Do they do that? If they are preterm?


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

The only thing I felt felt like a squishy wall. I angled upward and kinda curved while going in. I hope she's just not dilated well enough or something. ARGHHH... I know she will have little contractions when passing the placenta. It's possible that's what she's doing now. Ever had the placenta present first? Even then, I should feel SOMETHING at the other end, but I don't. There were some little pieces of pink, flat looking tissue that came out on the glove, too. Not sure what that is...


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

If you got your whole hand in then she's dialated enough. You could try going deeper. I know I checked a doe once, didn't feel a thing, she started pushing again, so I went in again and there was a kid.


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Hubby and I were just looking at placenta pics, since it's been a while since we've had a kid born, and what is hanging from her right now actually looks like the placenta.  It looks pretty much the same as what is in this pic... http://www.cornerstonefarm.net/graphics/kid12.jpg


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

usually, if they have kidded, they will be looking for or calling for the baby...


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

What youre describing either sounds like a prolapse, or a placenta. Did you check every corner of any area that she has been in the last fourty eight hours? Look under the bedding, any bushes in the pen. Sometimes if they have a dead kid they will hide it. We had a doe that had a dead kid in a hole they had dug out under the roots of a tree. Sometimes the placenta can by pass the kid as well. There are two horns to the uterus make sure you check both sides. I stay up late...its only ten here. You can call me if you need to. 
360 672 4184 i will continue to check this post as well.
beth


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Well in the doe I jst talked about she had placenta hanging too, or so I thought until I helped the other kid out.

If it were me I'd go in again, but try going a bit deeper.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup, sometimes the placenta by passes the kid. its rare but it does happen. Have you heard from her recently?
beth


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Since I went in twice, I think I'm going to wait a bit before going in again. She was extremely stressed over it. I think I'm going to go ahead and give her a little while to see if she is still pushing any because right now I don't see her doing anything but lying down. No heavy breathing, pushing, gritting teeth. Nothing. I saw her push once or twice when I was talking to Ashley, but since then I haven't seen anything.

Oh, and I thought of another scenario that I'm not thrilled about. We just got a Great Pyr pup about 3 weeks ago. He's about 12 weeks old, and he stays in with the goats all of the time. He's never offered to bother anyone--goats, chickens, guineas, peafowl. BUT I don't know what he would do, or what any dog would do if ... well, if the kid was dead and mom tried to hide it somewhere. He usually sleeps up under the shelf in the barn, and he was under there; she wasn't too far from where he was. He wasn't paying attention to her, so I don't know. I hope she didn't shove it under there where he could get to it. 

I moved him into the hay loft. I'll go back and check on her again shortly. Hubby went back to bed.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Do what your comfortable with, but I will say that time is of the essence now, If the placenta is passing and a kid is still in there. Once that placenta separates all the way he wont have any nutrients going to him, so he/she will try to breath on their own. Also you don't want her cervix to close with a kid still in there. Since her cervix has stayed open enough for your hand to still fit in there I would think there is still a kid in there. 

Again, feel free to call me again if you need me. I'm going to try and catch a few more Zzz's since I have a show to get ready for tomorrow. But don't feel bad waking me up.  :hug:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

She is up eating and acting like nothing is going on. Her udder's full, but beyond that, there's no signs of anything.  I'm starting to think maybe she was early or had a false pregnancy. She wasn't big at all, and I never felt movement. I'm going to bounce her again in a few... not sure exactly what I'm feeling for. And how much of the Biomycin do I give?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

1cc per 20lbs

I assume you did a checkaround for fluids on the ground (for a earlier delivery) ? I usualy can spot where the doe kidded even if I wasnt home for the kidding as when the sack is broken it really leaves a lot of fluids behind


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

if it was a false pregnancy there wouldnt be a placenta. the placenta is what nurishes the kid. there is a kid somewhere. is there a chance your LGD would of eaten it? its been known to happen before. 
beth


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

WOW 12 week old puppy and fresh blood? He is way to young to know what to do and not do. I would let him out and watch him, see if he takes you or wonders off to the baby. 

I had a doe deliver twins, the placenta and all was good until the next morning when mom was about dead. I went in and pulled another baby from her. If she still has a baby in there her cervix will not close.
Good luck Keep us posted


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

oh I hope everything is ok. :hug:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I would let the puppy out as well. see what he does. see if you can find a spot where she may have kidded. the ground will be wet with birthing fluids. 
I have seen instances where the doe stops pushing and her cervix does close with a kid still in there.
beth


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

any news on the doe or babies?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, please let us know how she is doing ray:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi all,

She's up and eating fine and drinking fine. I did find a little fluid and little pieces of pink tissue in the area where she was bedded. She's full of milk, but she passed everything. I bounced her and don't feel anything. She feels empty and looks a lot thinner than before. She is a bit depressed... calling to me like I am a baby when I go in the barn. And when I pet her or feel on her tummy, etc, she will lick me and talk to me like crazy. 

Now, after talking to Tina this morning (thanks for calling me this morning, Tina!), I think we came to the conclusion that it's a good possibility that she had premature babies and had probably had them without me knowing it. She was a little posty, not much, and was in a separate area of the barn, so we went in to town to go to the bank and get feed. We were gone about an hour, tops. When we came back, the first thing we did was clean the barn. I knew she was getting ready to have babies, so I didn't want them being born in a barn that wasn't nice and clean. So, it was me, hubby, and our 4 year old son, working together to shovel out the barn. As Tina deduced, if the babies were preemies, then it's a good possibility they were small enough that we didn't recognize them in our rush to clean the barn. We did clean every corner and quickly, so I could put down fresh pine shavings and hay.  She was trailing the string of tissue after that, and I did see her push a few times and saw what looked like a dark bubble once, but I had to step in the house to cook dinner--pizza, 20 mins, tops, and then went back out to sit with her. She was licking the ground a bit and there was a little tissue. SO! I don't know.  I'm very frustrated and upset and so is she. Poor thing. 

Her poops are a little runny today, so I'm thinking she's eaten tissue. I gave her some more NutriDrench and some ProBios. I gave her extra hugs and some browse. She was eating fine. 

Well, that's the update. I didn't notice the puppy doing anything. He didn't have blood on him or anything, and I never saw him with anything or even attempting to go near where she was, even when there was some blood and tissue on the ground. I don't think he's done anything, but like Tina said, he always could have jumped in and helped 'clean up' if the kids were dead.  He's actually small enough right now that the goats are really bossing him around, including Boo, so I don't see him attempting to take anything away from her like that. I think he'd hide first. She was grumpy enough that she didn't want any of the other goats in with her, so I know she wouldn't have taken to kindly to him.

Angie


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

:hug: I'm so sorry, not really knowing for sure what happenened is awful  I hope she continues to do well, she will grieve and be looking for them for a few fays, just give her lots of love and some relief from the full udder. :hug:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

That would be my best bet at a conclusion as well.....premies can be small anyways and a nigie set even smaller. Do you know when her actual due date was?
beth


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am sorry that you did not get a baby but I am glad mom is doing fine.


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm not sure of her due date. She's always been a tempermental and fussy with the other does, so when I had does with kids--Feb, Mar, April, May--I took her out of the pen with the girls because she kept butting the kids, hard, and I worried she'd hurt someone. She was fine in with the boys, so I put her in there, and of course, she did come in heat after being in with them for about a month. I pulled her from their pen; I didn't want her bred yet, because she still wasn't in excellent breeding condition from where I had bought her 'run-down' in December. I wanted to make sure she had put on a decent amount of weight and was conditioned before putting that extra load on her. Well, she cycled once, and I put her back in with the boys after about a week. A month later she did come back in again, and her AND Kadabra were both in with the boys for about 3 weeks, because I wanted to make sure they both took. Well, both turned around and acted like they were in heat again, so I wasn't even sure if either of them were bred then.  Then, of course, she changed her attitude and I knew she was preg, but I swear, I'm thinking that was in mid-April. The first time she was bred, I remember counting up to July and thinking I was going to have babies in July in the awful heat we have. enough time passed after that that I'm thinking she was bred in April. I had this all written down on the calendar, by the way, on my other laptop.  Lost all of that info and had to get a new laptop. So, I'm thinking that from my calculations, she probably wasn't due until late August or mid-September. She just started bagging up last week, and she wasn't big at all. I was thinking she looked like she might have 1 kid. I'm wondering if this terrible heat we've been having took its toll on her. It's been upper 90s and heat index in the 100s on and off for a week or so now and before then it was storms and a ton of rain. The weather has been nastyyyyy... other than that, I've no clue. 

Angie


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

:hug:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks, Katrina...  I needed that :hug:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear that...that is to bad. And not knowing what happened is the hardest part. :hug: You did all you could though.


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks everyone. :hug: I started her on antibiotics. I hope LA 200 is good enough. I have some Biomycin but the bottle wasn't open yet and the LA 200 was, so I used it instead.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

LA 200 and biomycin are the same thing so yup it will work.

As to your doe and you -- work on extra TLC for both of you :hug:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for the info Stacy.  I was thinking they were similar, so that's good to know. I didn't want to break open a new bottle of the Biomycin with an already opened bottle of LA200 to use. Thanks!!!

And she's getting lots of extra love right now from all of us. She thinks I'm her baby and cries and cries after me.

Angie


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

You are very welcome Angie! :hug: 
I am just so sorry for the way this turned out. Where those babies are will probably remain a mystery. My guess is the LGD pup or when you swept up her pen it got discarded without knowing. 
I am glad to hear though that Boo is doing okay today. Other than her wanting you to be her baby. :wink: 
You thought she was bad before... Oh she will probably be worse than ever now with being clingy and wanting all your attention. At least for a while anyway. :roll: But she deserves it right now. Go give her a hug. :hug:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

When I fed everyone this morning, she was beside of me the entire time, cooing at me.  She keeps looking at me with those big eyes and talking to me. It took me twice as long to feed because I had to keep petting her.. haha! But, I started the antibiotics yesterday. I waited a bit to see if she passed anything else or not. She's eating fine and everything. The only problem is Panama; she's decided to make a run for the herd as queen while Boo is down. So she's confronting Boo constantly.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

HaHa... good for Panama! Give Boo a taste of her own medicine for a change. The only problem is Panama better watch out as when Boo is back on her feet again she will seek revenge. :veryangry:


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## Firestone Creek Farm (Jul 11, 2008)

HAHAHA! You're right about that! And Boo seems like she is feeling better already. She was pushing everyone away from the food this evening. Pan's gonna be in big trouble, I'm bettin' :shocked: :ROFL:


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