# Cou Clair - is it possible?



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

THis boy was born today and he looks cou clair to me but im told "this is not possible"

So anyone have a better understanding of color genetics then me who can explain WHY he looks cou clair when its "not possible" ???




























here are picture references of his parentage

Dam:








Dam's Sire








Dam's Dam









Sire:









Following pictures curtsy of Phoenix Rising Farm
Sire's Dam









Sire's Dam's Dam









Sire's Dam's Dam's Sire


----------



## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

I dont know much about the color genetics. BUT, that definitly looks like the most gorgeous cou clair kid I have seen in my life.
Hes like a dilute!
Could it be because of the cou blanc in his bloodline?


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

I would say its because of the Cou Blanc!

Hes super pretty though, wish I had a baby that color! Im sure he will sell fast!


----------



## logansmommy7 (Nov 11, 2009)

Do you think colors can change as they get older? I have a had a few, similar in coloring, ...but they can definitely change. He is a beauty. The doeling I have that is that color has changed to more tan-with gray colorings that show she is a chamoisee....HE IS GORGEOUS!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you guys -- I dont want to advertise as a cou clair if he isnt! So Im looking for opinions. Its so confusing because if its not possible then I want to know what he IS then haha. Maybe a genetic mutation of color :shrug:


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow...that is interesting. I don't know how that would be possible to get a cou clair...though he does look like he has the possible markings for it. The only way I would think a cou clair would be possible would be if there were more cou clairs in the pedigree...but there doesn't appear to be that many. 

I don't think there has been enough research done on goat color/pattern genetics though to even be sure of much.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I really can't say what his color pattern would be but with those pedigree pics, I'd say he has a color from each parent and grandparent! His butt looks like the color of his maternal grandsire with his front being the color of his sire!

Sorry I can't help! Maybe thats why I like B/W goats so much?


----------



## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I had a PB Nubian kid born last year that looked Cou Clair but as he grew the colors seemed to fade. Sun bleaching has a lot to do with it. So Logansmommy might be right.
If he's born like that I'd think it would be correct to label him as such. 
Just my (very novice color patterned) opinion.

Also, lovely animals in the background!


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Cool! :thumb: From my (limited) understanding of color genetics:

First, I don't think his dam gave it to him. She is chocolate, isn't she? I don't believe solid chocolate can carry the cou clair pattern.

Second, I'm pretty sure cou blanc is the same gene as cou clair, combined with another gene that modifies the color. So yes, a cou blanc can produce a cou clair if the white is "changed" to tan by that other gene. BUT...

Third, it shouldn't have carried through his black SDD (black is recessive - a black goat only carries black), so the cou blanc from his SDDS is out.

Now his sire is solid tan, and tan is a very dominant color - almost any other gene can be carried by a tan goat. Do you have a pic of his SS? I say it is certainly possible that he is cou clair, and he got it from some other ancestor of his sire not pictured here.

You could advertise him as "Cou Clair?" with a question mark.


----------



## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

I agree with KW Farms, there has not been enough research to say it 'impossible' in my opinion. I think there are only two possibilities, thats a huge moonspot, which I don't think it is because I can see a dorsal stripe on the dark part and darkening on the legs, or he is Cou Clair. I think he is a chocolate Cou Clair and I don't see any problem with you advertising him as such. Nature can always defy human statistics. lol I love it! :ROFL:


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

possible moonspot but a moonspot broken with white? have you ever seen that? I dont think so


----------



## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

Nah, I think you got a Cou Clair. Are you gonna keep him? He looks pretty nice!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

No I am getting a buck from Ashley that is out of Dorcas who is linebred on Hamlet who is Sadie's sire SO I dont really need this buck. I would keep him but having diversified genetics (Dorcas will be bred to Knight) makes it better for me.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

If you sell him as a buck...hopefully we can see his kids some day and see if he passes on cou clair.


----------



## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

NC PROMISEDLAND RAMBEAU *S E91
- google this guy - he is listed as a cou clair, but his sire & dam are not


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Just adding my 2cents.. because I can't keep my mouth shut...

I have researched a LOT into the cou clair genetics, and cou clair is a dominant gene, so it is expressed, and therefore the dam or the sire would have to carry it. The sire's dam's dam is black for sure. Black is recessive, so both sire and dam need to pass on the recessive gene for the goat to be black. 
The sire's sire carried tan and recessive black

Ram-Beau's dam is a peacock, which is a combo of both Buckskin and Couclair, since both are dominant, both are expressed in a weird way resulting in peacock.
"We've always thought Lizzie carried the "peacock" gene, and the birth of Ram-Beau confirms it. Although he appears to be a cou blanc, he is technically a cou clair, but only has slight gold coloring on the back of his ears. His body color is pure white."

Here is another picture of what a "peacock" can look like:


----------



## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Hee hee hee.... love this topic!

Have to add that as I'm reading Ashley/RunAround's post... my mind is wandering to one of those bumper stickers about "Honor Students" :ROFL:



> "My friend Ashley is Smarter than your Honor Student"


PS. Anyone have a pic of RamBeau's momma?


----------



## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

In the Ram-Beau example, the breeder commented that the dam apparently carried the peacock gene. Another website listed her as a pale gold chamoisee. I couldn't find pics of her sire or dam yet to see their coloring (thinking one of them must express it??). 

Genetics are complicated that's for sure, but very interesting. It will be interesting to see what Stacey finds out


----------



## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

http://promisedlandfarm.net/Lizzie.htm


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Here is Ram-Beau...









Here is his dam...









Can't find a sire photo.


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Bellafire Farm said:


> Hee hee hee.... love this topic!
> 
> Have to add that as I'm reading Ashley/RunAround's post... my mind is wandering to one of those bumper stickers about "Honor Students" :ROFL:
> 
> ...


LOL I'm sorry!!! Really!

The picture of the kid I posted is a Ram-Beau son I own, fyi.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Ashley...thank you for your imput...that is really interesting. So it's like blue eyes...one parent has to have it to pass it on? Do you have any idea what this little buckling is?


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Once I get the papers I can let you know what he is called, but I think it's just going to be listed as Cou Clair/Buckskin.

It's like blue eyes, but yet not. You would need a cou clair(or peacock) to get a cou clair, thats where it's the same. But with blue eyes you either have blue eyes or you don't because brown is recessive and blue is dominant. But with colors we have problems with two dominant colors mixing. Then it all goes to hell in a handbasket. :help:


----------



## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

Does anyone have a chart or some reading about how this all works. I have read some about it but it didn't give all the possibilities. I just got a cou clair buckling out of a chamoisee sire and two tone chamoisee dam. I read that chamoisee and chamoisee produce more chamoisee, but maybe the two tone makes a difference?


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

nigerians and alpines color genetic names are a bit confusing because a two tone chamoisee in alpine is a cou clair in a nigerian dwarf


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

The two tone was a chammy/cou clair or cou blanc which gave her the two tones and the cou clair buckling.


----------



## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

@ Ashley.... LOL! Love it - all in fun :greengrin:


----------



## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

aaah! It is confusing. I think I understand about the two tone chammy carrying the cou clair gene, though! So in Nigerian there are both the cou clair as in Alpine cou clair and also the two tone chammy cou clair, but both are cou clair. Or no?


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yeah, cou blanc and cou clair are just called cou clair. Although standard breed judges that only judge nigerians once and a while will call the kids by the other color, so it's helpful to know when it's their kid your mentioning. lol

Anyways, back to Stacey's buck kid... sampson probably carries buckskin, so he gave buckskin to the kid and maybe it's a sort of a chocolate/black buckskin the kid is showing.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh to make it more interesting his head is red his shoulders are gold and his hind quarters are chocolate 

a reverse buckskin you say? thats odd - isnt a reverse buckskin cou clair? now my head hurts


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Looks like a giant moonspot to me....but I'm certainly not a color expert. Took me forever to get really good at horse colors..I'm still struggling with the goats.


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Saanens N Alpines said:


> aaah! It is confusing.


That's it in a nutshell. I thought i'd get a bunch of black babies, since two of my does were black, and I ended up with a rainbow of baby colors. After reading this thread I am not even going to try understanding color genetics.


----------



## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

Ashley, I have never heard of peacock. lol But I like the idea!


----------



## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Is it possible that his color is diluted because of the moonspot gene his grandma, Tattiana, carries?


----------



## shadybrook (Oct 8, 2014)

Cou Clair Nigerian Dwarf Buckling


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Cute!


----------



## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

Aww. He's adorable. Love the coloring❤


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------

