# Toxemia doe- should I induce or C section



## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

I have a doe that is within a week of delivering that I cannot get turned around. I have done propylene glycol/Karo/ molasses, B injections, and she is going downhill. Not drinking, but eating alfalfa. She keeps trying to pee but only a dribble comes out because she isn't consuming enough water. What would be the best option at this point- inducing or c section?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Does she have enough energy to stand? Are you really good at pulling kids? If induced she may not have enough energy to push those kids out so you would need to pull the kids. If she can't pee though it might not hurt to take to the vet anyways so they can give iv fluids and with the vet actually looking at her might be able to tell you one way or another.


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, she is still standing and walking around some. No, I'm not experienced at pulling kids- this is our second kidding. We lost a doe last year to toxemia, so I recognized the signs and intervened early, but not having luck. Would a die that had a c section still be able to nurse ?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My doe nursed her kids just fine. I did need to milk her for the first couple days. But each doe is different. I would also be prepared to bottle feed.

I would contact the vet.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Going by the limited info you have given us so far, I'm leaning for inducing as the short answer. With this being Sunday, it may be difficult to get much done with the vet today. Do you have lutalyse and dexamethasone? Anyway, in addition to the propylene glycol, I would try and get some MFO or CMPK and give that to her as well. I would also get some electrolytes like "Bounceback" and drench that to her in warm water. The dextrose in the bouceback can "wake up" some animals not doing well. Basically you should get a little more proactive while you wait an appointment with the vet. Are you pretty sure on the breeding date?


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, I'm sure on the breeding date because we took her to the buck. I gave her CMPK yesterday, bounce back this morning, but headed out to do more. I don't have the induction drugs, typically my vet gets right back with me. I'm still waiting to hear back from him today. I watched a doe go down with this last year and was unable to save her or the kids because she wasn't this close to delivery. So sad. I'm not one to jump to big decisions like induction or c section, but I don't want to waste time and possibly lose this one. 
Thanks in advance for all advice!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Artdrake said:


> Yes, I'm sure on the breeding date because we took her to the buck. I gave her CMPK yesterday, bounce back this morning, but headed out to do more. I don't have the induction drugs, typically my vet gets right back with me. I'm still waiting to hear back from him today. I watched a doe go down with this last year and was unable to save her or the kids because she wasn't this close to delivery. So sad. I'm not one to jump to big decisions like induction or c section, but I don't want to waste time and possibly lose this one.
> Thanks in advance for all advice!


I understand your concern, but every case is a little different. Don't give up hope of a good outcome based on a prior bad one. The things you learned from before can make a big difference with this one. You are doing the right things. Keep doing them.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Artdrake said:


> Yes, I'm sure on the breeding date because we took her to the buck. I gave her CMPK yesterday, bounce back this morning, but headed out to do more. I don't have the induction drugs, typically my vet gets right back with me. I'm still waiting to hear back from him today. I watched a doe go down with this last year and was unable to save her or the kids because she wasn't this close to delivery. So sad. I'm not one to jump to big decisions like induction or c section, but I don't want to waste time and possibly lose this one.
> Thanks in advance for all advice!


I was in your shoes last year. I made a promise to my girls they would never go threw that again!!!! Do what you need to do for her. I also second the induce and let the vet know your not very skilled in pulling kids so she is for warned she might need to help. As for c section as someone who had 2 it hurts like heck but babies make you not notice  I've had animals that have had a bad labor and delivery but once they see their kids jump up and go. I have also had some that didn't have it that hard but lost the kids and they curled up and died.......so their love for their babies is very powerful. I agree with Karen though and have a bottle ready. Use moms milk and keep them close while you are milking. You may have to supplement a little with whole milk but you might be able to get the kids back on mom later on.


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

Just got back in and she let everything I tried to give her she let fall right out of her mouth. She holds it in and won't swallow. I called the vet and he agreed, there really aren't any good options. I think we are going to take her for a c section tomorrow with the hope of saving her and babies. He really wanted me to wait to be sure the babies lungs are developed, but I think she will be too weak to wait much longer. She stopped eating what little alfalfa she had been eating and is not drinking. She is due Friday or Saturday. I took 5 in to be bred and the first ones are due Thursday- I checked my texts. He said within 4-5 days there is a pretty good chance the babies can make it. Uugh!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree 100% ....I don't care if one of my does was a month out and came down with pt. If treatment wasn't working I would abort the kids. The way I look at it is I have more time money and love invested in that doe then unborn kids. But I really think your kids will be fine. I have had them born 2 weeks early.....want fun at all but they lived. Crossroad had kids 10 days early and came out OK. I also have a doe that will go 7-8 days before actual due date and they do fine without having me to step in. But with her not drinking I would stress to the vet for some fluids. It will help a lot in the c section and recovery. Good luck


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think you are right in taking her in for the C section now. You don't want her in bad shape by the time you do that. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

She must have known I was taking her in for a csection tomorrow- she just delivered QUADS! So far all are doing ok, a couple are a little weaker, but I believe all got colostrum. She is such an awesome mom- constantly checking on them. She drank a ton and nibbled on some food. How should I treat her now?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow that is wonderful! Congratulations! I would probably give her some CMPK and B Complex. Maybe some electrolytes. 

Keep a good eye on the weak kids and be prepared to bottle feed.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Awesome!!!! Just having those kids out is going to help her the most but I agree with Karen....maybe just start dropping the amount of doses. Big time congrats!!! Now rub your good luck off on me because if my doe doesn't kid or change tomorrow I'm inducing her


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## Justice-Kidds (May 2, 2013)

Put some molasses in warm water for her to drink
Good job, quads!!
Pictures please when u can


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow! Good job. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

Here are the babies! I was excited with triplets last year! Can't believe she had quads! So much fluid gushed out of her, it was unbelievable.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very nice!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Was she just in a long light labor and didnt wanna get up you think?


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

It would have had to be ever so slight. She was actually walking around quite a bit throughout the day, just not eating or drinking. So far all it well. I gave her a shot of oxytocin and a steroid. She still isn't eating as much as I had hoped, but I caught her chewing her cud, so that's good! Babies are all doing well so far- hope it stays that way!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so happy for you and her :wahoo::stars:. Congratulations. that is why she was not eating, they tend not to eat before they deliver.

I would make sure you keep giving her as much Molasses water as she wants and hot. remember their body temp is higher then ours so they drink it a lot warmer then we do. Make it as strong as she would like it, I had some that wanted it realy strong and dark and others a bit lighters. The more she drinks the more it will help with her milk. Make sure all thos babies are getting enough. 

They are beautiful. Did I miss does or bucks?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I was also going to tell you, I would try giving her tums or Rolaids for the extra calcium. Have you ever gotten that cmpk on you? I got some on a finger I guess then I touched my face. It burned so bad and welted. I guess it is pretty harsh on the goats as well. I do use it when I need but I use tums or rolaids first if I can. just my :2cents:


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Yay!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Good job Mama Doe & Artdrake!:stars:


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

That is wonderful! Congratulations! :thumbup:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A big congrats  :wahoo:


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## mountainminilynn (Jan 14, 2014)

Congratulations! I hope everyone keeps getting stronger


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

This morning momma had a fever of 105! I gave her LA 200 and Banamine, b1& b12, Probios. and tonight she is still fever free and back to eating hay & just a little bit of grain. I wish she would get going on food- she's so thin. The littlest one doesn't seem to be eating as much. I just gave him a little Nutridrench for a little boost. She is the most amazing mother. I swear she knows which ones have eaten and which ones haven't. She ever so patiently smells and directs them one by one. I love to watch her. Other good news- today we had triplets and I had to assist and I DID IT! First time! What a feeling. . All of them are doing well, boy they are a loud bunch!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

COngrats!! She looks like a very proud mom..be sure to follow through with the antibiotics...at least 5 days...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Congrats on the new kids. Hope that other little one does ok for you. Don't be slow to intervene.


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## Bayouslug (Mar 22, 2012)

Wow, How nerve wracking!! So glad everything turned out good!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is better now.


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