# Opinions sought



## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

We have a Saanen sire, pictured first. Our favorite doe, Nubian x Boer, pictured second.. She is athletic, smart, friendly, awesome mom and super super healthy. Third picture is her 6 day old doeling, Oreo. She is going to be bigger than mom, just look at those shoulders and now at 6 weeks she is getting those Saanen legs under her. We have 2 kiddings now from this sire resulting in 7 does and 3 bucks. Bucks have been sold, kept the does, now separated from sire. Fourth picture is buckling we are thinking of bringing in to take next step toward big, super-healthy, strongly maternal, multipurpose goats. Seeking advice from experienced breeders and those much more educated in genetics than I. Thanks in advance.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I would go 50%dairy, 50% meat as much I could on kids. That way you can get the.best of both worlds. 

I do like the savannah kid you pictured... he looks very meaty even at 4 days old. I'm not a huge kiko fan, I see them more as a brush goat than meat goat for the most part, although some are thicker. 

Your does look big framed and well rounded as a dairy and meat animal. I would keep them for a commercial herd although if you are wanting to show I would find one breed and stick to it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

what are your goals? to raise a multi-purpose herd? If so keeping with the dairy/ meat cross is good. Saanen will add height and awesome dairy genetics..your Buck looks sound..more on the leaner build which is not a big deal when crossing with meat goats..I sell most my saanen bucks to boer goat breeders who need more dairy in their herd..
Your boer /nubian cross girl favors the boer in her..nice and thick..she is very pretty  and like Dani said..she represents both sides meat and dairy...
That little doe is adorable..I know Im suppose to look past the cuteness..but Im a sucker for pretty goats..she def. will have longer legs and body than mom (I assuming the nubian/boer?)..the savanna/kiko buck looks great..nice look..should add to your kid crop nicely...
Again..depending on what your goals are, for a cross herd this is a good start...you have meat...dairy...and color : )


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## Paige (Oct 14, 2010)

Your Saanen buck will really give you some longer, taller animals, so then I would look for a nice thick meaty buck to breed to the Saanen's daughters to really fill out that frame. That should make a pretty nice dual purpose animal for ya  The kiko buck will probably not add as much meat to your dairy crosses as you might want, but I know Kikos are supposed to be super hardy animals, and easy-peasy kidders, and great moms. I have never owned one though, so I am not sure. So if that is what you are looking for, I would snatch him up. But, if you are looking to add even more meat to the dairy mixes, then I would look for a Boer/Kiko or maybe a Boer/Savanna cross. It really depends on what you are looking to do with the herd. But, either way, you should get some nice dual purpose goats! You have a nice little herd.


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks to all. Our business is located on 12 acres in the middle of a 40 acre tract. 4 years ago we harvested and sold our pines for paper wood. Under the advice of our local ranger we wanted to replant with hybrid poplars. We waited 3 years, then found out the poplars cannot compete for sunlight. In south east Tennessee, in 3 years, brush briars scrub and pines will take over. Thusly our adventure and subsequent love affair with goats began. My business actually gets a tax credit for using green methods to clear property. If any of you own your own business, you know a tax credit is a big deal! Now, I am trying to build a herd of big brush devouring bulldozers. They are a spoiled bunch. 19 does and the 1 buck. Only a few eclectic purebreds, 1 Saanen buck, 1 kiko, 1 alpine, and the rest were handpicked from established herds of crosses for size and longevity. Assuming survival of the fittest still exists, we should be building something special. The bucklings sell as fast as I put them on Craigslist. I now have enough young does to start the net generation. Thanks for the input.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if you need big then Saanen buck cross with meat are a good match..Saanen are the larges of the dairy breed...but I hear the best brush eaters are spanish goats lol..they arent very large but are hardy..low maintenance and resilient...lol..good luck with what ever you decide..sounds like you have a plan and focus : ) Maybe throw a perople friendly gelded Donkey out there for protection : )


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I am in love with his horns!


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks, we like his horns too.

We have three Spanish girls as part of the herd, and boy do they eat good!
Pix included.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

Would Love to use that buck on my 75%Saanen/ 25% Alpine crosses & my Saanen/Alpine/Boer girl!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..yep the eat good : ) cute too....and hitch hikers lol (chickens)


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Rest of the adult starter herd that this sire covers.


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Results thus far


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I am jealous of all the babies I cannot wait until we can have oodles of babies!

Love the chicken hitch hikers!


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Ember said:


> I am jealous of all the babies I cannot wait until we can have oodles of babies!
> 
> Love the chicken hitch hikers!


Yeah, I don't quite understand the red Spanish doe and her relationship with chickens. We have three adult rhode island red laying hens, they still climb on her back every once in a while. Last spring I brought these Orpington chicks in and they immediately got on her back. Now we have 11 barred rock chicks from 4H, and they follow her around, almost sizing her up till they are strong enough to get on her themselves. She has two adult daughters still in our herd, kidded for us with 3 doelings and 2 bucklings so far, but she is the only member of the 20 head that allows these hitch hikers. I don't get it!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

makes for cute photo ops lol


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## Spanish (Feb 13, 2013)

Your goat herd seems like a nice group.congrad. on your kidding and just love the chicks on the back. and enjoyed the girl in the wheel barrel with all the kids. It's nice to see children enjoying goats.

Important consideration in a selective breeding program are, multiple births, at least twice a year kidding, rapid growth, good conformation, sound feet, legs, and mouth. Breed of dam has been shown to affect body weight, growth from birth through the post-weaning period and carcass traits for the progeny of Boer sires and dairy breed sires. Introduction of milk production genes will effect the survivability adaptation and growth weight, you'll gain in height, and milk production in the does. If continued breeding with dairy you will be building up the dairy percentage.

Breeding production systems consist of: animal genotypes,the physical environment,fixed resources and management factors, economic and social considerations. 

Lifetime Doe productivity= fertility level, prolificacy, milk production, genetic merit in growth, seasonality in fertility and health.



Spanish Goat are larger than angora,have less hair, or may have cashmere hair and come in a variety of color. Spanish goats are very hardy and take minimum of management, and labor. Their unique feature is their reproductive physiology.Unlike dairy goats, which breed only in the fall to winter months, Spanish goats are polyestrous { breed throughout the year} which allows for year around kidding. Spanish cross with Boar will put more meat and carcass value, but you don't want to cross more than once . If crossing more than once you will lose the hardness of the Spanish and the weaker genes from Boar will become apparent weaker hooves, health issues. Spanish/Kiko is a complimentary, Both are hardy, both have good parasite resistance. Again crossing more then once you will loose some genes from the Spanish or Kiko. Better to breed back to the main breed to get your percentage back up. 

Boar goats are also polyestrous breeders Boar goats are highly versatile in their ability to adapt to various production systems. Boars need much more attention in their management : feet, worming , feed requirements. 

The Kiko Goat are also polyestrous breeders. Kikos are versatile and adaptable, much like the Spanish in their management care. They have a better parasite resistance then the boar, hooves need less trimming, great mothering skills, and Kikos basically can take care of themselves if given plenty of acreage and variety of plants to eat. Kiko exhibited greater performance levels and efficiencies compared with the Boer for doe-kid performance.Kiko dams tend to wean a higher kid crop percentage and wean higher litter weights per doe exposed compared with Boer dams.


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

Spanish said:


> Your goat herd seems like a nice group.congrad. on your kidding and just love the chicks on the back. and enjoyed the girl in the wheel barrel with all the kids. It's nice to see children enjoying goats.
> 
> Important consideration in a selective breeding program are, multiple births, at least twice a year kidding, rapid growth, good conformation, sound feet, legs, and mouth. Breed of dam has been shown to affect body weight, growth from birth through the post-weaning period and carcass traits for the progeny of Boer sires and dairy breed sires. Introduction of milk production genes will effect the survivability adaptation and growth weight, you'll gain in height, and milk production in the does. If continued breeding with dairy you will be building up the dairy percentage.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is exactly the type and quality of information I was looking for. Thank you so much for taking the time to share. I felt, by reading your short bio that you would be a valuable resource. We love our herd sire. He is huge and very intimidating. Me and my boys were at the farm late one evening this past fall and witnessed him charge, attack and kill an adult fox. In 3 years we have never lost an animal to predation. We do not live on our farm, the acreage actually surrounds my business. So, it must be the big Saanen buck. We don't have a LGD or donkey. With humans he is nothing but a lover. He seems hardier than most pure bred animals, and is a prolific breeder. These are the reasons we chose to make him the basis of our herd. Thanks again.
Russell Hammonds


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