# What to do?? LONG Sorry



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am not sure if this is where this questions should go, but here it is.

OK, I sell my goats to 4Hers for a discount price, that way we can grow the club, and I just want to. If it is just someone that wants to buy them and they want them for their fiber they are charged more, that is what all us 4Hers do here in Colorado for the fiber oats. ( I do not know about the other goats). Ok, I had a lady contact me ans tell me that she wanted her three kids to join the club. YEA, I was really excited. They came to my place and bought two of my goats. One wether and my champion doe. I had someone offer me $200.00 for her but I new they (the new 4Hers) really wanted her, so I held off selling her to the others. I did sell her for $125.00, and a Wether for $50.00. I would normally sell the wether for at least $100.00. They have only paid me $130.00 total out of the $175.00. They said they would pay me the rest next month. 

Ok, I saw the mom at a foot ball game and I went to talk to her and she said the Laura (the oldest) was NOT going to do it after all. Ok, that is fine no big deal at all. Lord knows I do know thing happen and sometimes you just can not do it. Well, we also GAVE them a goat, (I had a old 4Her tell me to GIVE the goat to someone that wanted to join 4H, but they HAD to be in 4H to get him, I figured they had three kids and that would be quite a expense to buy three, so I offered him to them). Well while I talked to her at the game she said that she had to bring Jackson (the free one back). He was just to mean to the others. Ok, No problem. They brought him home when we were not home.

Well, they kept telling me that they couldn't make it to one meeting after another. They will not return my calls, and the oldest one is or was the friend of my daughter. I say was because she will not even look at my daughter at all, much less talk to her. Well, someone came up to my daughter and told her that they said they were going to join 4H to get them at at he 4H price. OK, I figured I would talk to the mother myself and see what was going on. Well, now they will not even answer the phone, when I call, so last night I called and I blocked the call. yep they answered the phone. I asked for the mother (Julie), and the daughter said yep here she is, then they hung up on me. Well I called back and now they will not answer the phone. :evil: 
Well, I called back and I left a message. I told her that I just wanted to talk to her abotu the goats, and that IF they were NOT going to do 4H, they were going to have to pay me the NON 4H price of $200.00 for the doe, and the $100.00 for the wether, OR, I would just refund the money they did pay. I asked her to PLEASE call me and we can talk like adults, and lets get this worked out or I would just come get the goats, and I would give the money back.
Ok, No I did not get anything in writing. I know, I know. But I thought they were friends, and the mother was so excited to get things going. I never thought this would happen. I DID write on the bottom of the check that they still owe me money, At least I did do that.

Ok, what would you all do? Should I just go get them? I know they would take very good care for them but they know NOTHING about goats, so they would not even know if one was sick.

Thanks for letting me vent.
:twisted:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sticky situation but my first thought was - they still owe you money so in that if they don't pay you they have breached the agreement and now you either have to get the money from them for the price you stated OR you should get your goats back.

I too would want my full money for a non 4Her but not sure if you will get that at this point.

But you do deserve your full payment or the goats back


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Sadly I think this is a case of lesson learned the hard way. Most breeders around here require a note from the 4-h leader that the person is an active member of a goat club before they will give discounts. I too have let goats go without the full payment and I got lucky and they paid their balance without problems. I think you have done about all you can do and I personally do not see you getting the rest of your money. I feel for you but mostly I feel for the goats. If she were atleast in the club she could learn more about goats. People like them burn me up. Sorry you are faced with this.


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## bigoakfarm (Oct 6, 2007)

You're in a bad spot and I don't envy you. I've had sort of the same thing happen when I sold 2 wethers for the price of one to a mom who was crying to me about her two sons wanting to join 4H and show some goats but she couldn't afford to buy them both a wether at the same time and how in the world could she choose just one son to have a goat , blah, blah, blah....

6 weeks later, she was on the phone complaining that they had eaten everything in the dog pen she had put them in and she was still feeding these (2) 12 week old wethers a bottle of milk every day so they shouldn't need anything else right? She couldn't understand how in the world they were starving and sickly and it must have been my fault so she wanted me to give her some medication for them (which I did.) They had pretty bad diarhea (sp?) and I figured they were overloaded w/cocci because they had been confined to such a small area without food. I sent her home with a full week of Sulmet for each of them, Ivomec for them both and new bottles of Nutridrench and Pepto. I also sent hay and grain for a about a week - and no charge for any of this, btw. I wrote down the instructions she needed to get her through the holiday weekend - this was Memorial Day weekend and her reason for not calling the vet was the very high after hours charges. I begged her to get them to the vet 1st thing the following Tuesday morning. She never took them to the vet and they died that following weekend. The day she bought the two boys, I had sent her home with goat's milk to mix with cow's milk while she switched them over and a care sheet with all this other info already on it. There was really no excuse for her taking these goats home and starving them for 6 weeks. To top this off, she had the NERVE to call me and demand two more wethers to replace the "sick" ones she had bought. Fortunately, both goats had shown just a few days before she bought them and I still had a copy of the health certificate we had gotten for them and that show. She actually threatened to sue me for "damages" caused to her sons because their little goats had died and they were heartbroken. Can you even belive that? Needless to say, I do NOT offer a 4H discount anymore. I figure if a buyer can't afford the purchase price, they are likely to be unable to afford vet care and feed expenses too. 

I'm sorry this has happened to you but I would say you have probably lost those goats and the money owed. You can probably get it back if you take her to small claims court even with just a verbal agreement but that would probably be more trouble than it's worth for that amount of money. (not that it's pocket change - just that court is a huge hassle.

Good luck and I sure hope this turns out good for you and the goats.

Kristen


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

I am very sorry that this is happening, Lori!

We do give 4-H, multiple purchase, and repeat buyer discounts. Haven't really been in it long enough, though, so I don't have any experience with that. Anyways, our discount is around 10%. Reading these kind of stories makes me want to make sure if we do any discounts or anything that we have the buyers sign a contract thing.

When we got Flicka and Cass, they were only partially(SP?) paid for. The breeder didn't make us sign a contract or anything, but withheld the registration papers until the goat was paid in full. Did these goats have papers? If so, do you still have them or did you let the papers go with the goats?

I really don't know what else to say....other than I am very sorry and I hope you either get your goats back or they pay you the rest of the money. Prayers coming your way that everything gets resolved.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

thanks for all the info. 
Bigoakfarms, Boy I am so sorry t o hear about your ordeal also. 
The problem is, like you said about getting a letter from the 4Hleader that they are going to join 4H. I AM THE LEADER. yep, that is what is so sad. 
I guess my daughter knows of several people that they have done this to, last year it was over three horses. They were taken to court over them and I guess they have been in court several times for this, and the judge told them that if they do it again then they were going to throw them in jail because the horses were their third time that they were in court. (fraud) 
My husband told me to write a letter and have it registered and make them sign for the letter, and tell them they have one week to get us the money (in full, at a non 4H price),or the goats (I would rather have them back), or we will take them to court. My husband is a teacher where they all go to school, and I guess he had heard the same thing about them NOT paying for the animals they purchase. (Very small school). The horse situation happened to be a girl that my daughter rides with in a all girls drill team. They were "buying" three of their horses so she could be in the drill team. So they have a reputation for this. 
I just feel so bad for the kids. They are the ones in the middle and they are the ones that lose the goats or animals that they have grown to love.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like a plan. I hope you get the goats back. Let us know how it goes.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the only problem is that if the parents don't learn the kids will grow up with the same mindset. I feel bad for the kids only a little bit because I think they should learn that this is NOT the way to get animals cheep


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