# Market of Nigerian vs Pygmy



## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

At the moment, we have both breeds. I'm wanting to just have one, so that I can better my knowledge and breeding plans. I'm leaning towards the Nigerians, but wanted to get input. Would you say there is more of a market for Nigerians or more for Pygmies?

It seems like a lot of people like the Nigerian coat colors and blue eyes, but on the other hand a lot of people like the tiny Pygmies for their size.

I'd love some input.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Nigerians and Pygmies can be the same size. Pygmies of very small size generally have kidding problems so I didn't want to get into those.

I find in my area, TN, the Nigerians are more popular then the pygmies. They like the colors and blue eyes.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

The size should actually be right about the same. The pygmy a bit stockier but not that much smaller. 

Which breed is very dependent on your area. It is also dependent on how much you are looking to sell the goats for.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Yes, the height is almost identical depending on which registry you're looking at. The pygmies tend to look bigger in my opinion because of the cobby build and thick legs. 

If you were to breed high quality registered pygmies, I think you could have a really good market. I honestly don't see very many for sale anymore...but maybe it's just like that where I live. On the other hand if you were to breed quality reg. nigerians you could also have a really good market. The coat colors for nigerians attract a lot of pet buyers...so what are you aiming for? Show/milk/pets? Who would you mainly want to sell too?

I would look around your area, see what's selling, what's not. Are you going to have to compete with other nigerian/pygmy breeders?


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the info so far  It probably would have helped if I stated my intended market LOL. I'm aiming for pets and 4-H show quality. We have a LOT of 4-H kids around here that are big into the fairs. However, I suspect most buyers would be pet homes. 

I've found very few reg Pygmies around here. The Pygmies I do see are low end quality. However, I have found a few nice Nigerians for sale and a few breeders a few hours from here.

I'm not wanting to sell the kids for big bucks. This is mostly a hobby and for tax exemption. Actually, I could easily get into showing, but have found very few shows are held around here. :tears:


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

I've found that Nigerians usually sell for much more than Pygmies, but I think either will do wonderfully for pets. If you're planning on doing something on the side though, (milk/meat) that would help you decide. ND for milk, Pygmies better for meat. Hope that helps!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

If you are selling for pets I don't think there is a better of the two breeds. Both are smaller which pet owners look for often. Pet owners also often are looking for less expensive so even a cross of the two. But again area is a key factor!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

If you are going for mainly pets then I think the nigerians would have the advantage because of their wide variety of colors/markings and easier kidding in gernal vs. pygmies. As Logan was saying you could even do a cross.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you all! Maybe I will hang onto the Pygmies for a bit longer. I can sell "Pygerians" :ROFL:


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

The good thing with pygmies though is that more people (at least in my area) tend to be more familiar with the pygmy breed over the ND breed. Once we tell the buyers how similar the breeds are in size, they are a little more open to look at ND. I don't think you will have trouble selling either breeds because they are great for both pets and 4-H, so if you like NDs more, go with them.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Since alot of Nigerian people put their comments in I thought I'd go for a different view point...

First of all, where are you located? There are TONS of NPGA members (more than what is listed on the NPGA site) and they usually have at least one show per state (or area)

Registered Pygmies, like any other breed, go for lots of $$$$ if you have the right bloodlines. I know several of the top NPGA breeders (who are also a judges) typically sells Pygmies from $700 and up. Wethers can get pricey as well. I'm talking $300 for a castrated male! :shocked: 

And as to Pygmies having more kidding troubles, they do not! It's just one thing you just have to be more careful about who you breed to who and you cant give bred does alot of grain. Pygmies have no more kidding complications than Nigerians or any other breed if you do it right. :thumb: 

I used to have a couple ND wethers... They were SOOOO hard to sell! Most 4-H programs are just now getting ND's or don't have them yet. There's only a few counties in Ohio that recognize Nigerians. And when you do show Nigerians you can't show wethers, but in the Pygmy classes you can. Wethers are always cheaper than does so alot of 4-Hers want wethers to show and have as pets and since there is no ND's, people buy Pygmy Wethers.

Another advantage of Pygmies.... Some people may just like to breed but not milk their goats, which is why Pygmies would get chosen over ND's.

And I find when people are looking to buy or sell unreg mini's people catorgize them as pygmies. Even if they are polled or blue eyed (pure pygmies can be neither). Not many people really know about nigerians yet except established breeders and goat owners. Newbies always think any small goat is a pygmy goat -- which is not true.

So I think I covered all that I intended to... Good luck in your decision :thumbup: But I think if you want mainly pets you should go for Pygmies so you don't have to worry about udder improvements and such. Pygmies are easier to judge and lower maintence.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Why not attend some county fairs and see what is there in 4H? This year I had 21 males born out of 27 kids. I thought I was doomed. Turned out the 4H kids were buying them up almost faster than I was producing them. I have Nigerians. I think most importantly is what will sell in your area. If Pygmies sell better then you want to keep your Pygmies, if Nigerians will sell better, then you may want to go that route.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Do both...if you have unregistered ND and Pygmy.....sell as pets or even backyard milkers. I have 1 cross doe I'm planning to breed for next year, her kids have always gone for pets and she's had both body types in her kids but her color being white, she's only had ND colors, never pygmy colors in her kids. And I agree with Tori....most people here don't know that ND and Pygmy are around the same size, ones just leaner built and bred for milk . I am always hearing people referring to my goats as pygmies...they class all short goats as pygmies and don't consider the fact that pygmy is a breed and not a size.

I've only recently started with registered ND, 2009 was my first registered kid and I've had goats since 2000 and from then on, I've had "Pygerian" kids that have sold as pets.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

RowdyKidz said:


> And as to Pygmies having more kidding troubles, they do not! It's just one thing you just have to be more careful about who you breed to who and you cant give bred does alot of grain. Pygmies have no more kidding complications than Nigerians or any other breed if you do it right. :thumb:


Wouldn't you say the pygmy breed as a whole has more issues with kidding vs. the nigerian dwarf breed? I personally disagree with your statement.

I used to raise pygmies when I first started out and had two that had to have c-sections...and I only had about 10 at that time and was using a very little buck. That is part of the reason I got into nigerians, was the easier kiddings. I have around 90 nigerians now and have had only two does that have had a kid positioned wrong and get stuck, but they came out after repositioning...and I've not once had to have a c-section on any of my nigerians.

I've read numerous times where someone got out of pygmies because they had to many kidding issues and went to nigerians instead.

So from my experience and from what i've read and heard, I would say for sure, you would have a higher chance of having kidding issues with a pygmy than a nigerian. With proper breeding of course you can see better bloodlines than others for ease of kidding, but I would still say I have seen and heard of more issues with kidding in pygmies vs. the nigerians.

Just my two cents.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

I actually saw someone advertising Pygerians about a month back. I thought the name was pretty catchy! It was the first time I'd heard of it.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

KW Farms said:


> RowdyKidz said:
> 
> 
> > And as to Pygmies having more kidding troubles, they do not! It's just one thing you just have to be more careful about who you breed to who and you cant give bred does alot of grain. Pygmies have no more kidding complications than Nigerians or any other breed if you do it right. :thumb:
> ...


I am sorry you had that experience but I never have and if you feed rationally and breed at appropriate ages and purchase easy kidding goats, that should not happen. Honestly, from this forum I have seen more Nigerians have c-sections and complications than anyone in the NPGA world.

I've kidded out many many does and helped assist several Nigerians but never once have my Pygmies (knock on wood) required a c-section or alot of help when giving birth. Honestly my Pygmy/Nigerian grade doe has more complications than anyone. She tends to have large breech kids.

IMO, I have noticed tremendous differences when you feed less grain to bred does. When you feed less grain you get smaller babies and easier deliveries. The more grain you give preggo does the more likely they are to have complications. Several of my Pygmy friends (and several Vets) agree with this statement. If I am careful with giving grain, I don't have many problems.

ETA -- Alot of the breeders who have gotten out of Pygmies have had registered show goats. Show goats are known for maintaining a heavy weight for show season. That is what leads to alot of kidding problems and that is why there are alot of misconceptions about Pygmies kidding abilities. When you breed you REALLY have to watch what you feed and how much. Plus the doe can't weigh too much.

The buck is also a big factor. Just because the buck is small, does NOT mean he will throw small kids! I've had small bucks throw small kids and large kids, I've also had large bucks throw large kids & small kids.

Bloodlines ARE important and knowing the kidding history and the offspring history of the parents, grandparents, and greatgrandparents are all very important to knowing what you need to do for your bred does. :thumbup:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

What nigerian kidding complications would you be referring to on here? I honestly only remember one and that was Ashley's doe. :shrug: The nigerian owners out way the pygmy owners on here too. 

When I had the pygmies that ended up having to have c-sections they were bred to a small buck and I should have added he threw low birth weight...little bitty kids. And he also frequently threw does which was nice. My does also were not fed daily grain and were not overweight though nice and healthy. Actually I might have pictures on my old computer of one that had to get a c-section...I'll try and round them up. 

Pygmies obviously need to be in good show weight for shows, but are they supposed to be overweight? Or at a healthy/normal weight for a pygmy? An overweight doe of any breed will likely have a higher chance of complications obviously, but since the pygmy is supposed to be short, cobby with a heavy frame... wouldn't that lead to more kidding issues or an increased chance of having an issue? If overweight pygmies are winning in shows then wouldn't this be how the breed is supposed to look? Why aren't pygmies in ideal weight winning that are not overweight? This would mean that the pygmy is built to be thick and over weight for their frame? 

I'm happy to see you have a good line of pygmies that don't have any issues. And I agree with any breed.. kidding issues can come from certain bloodlines within the breed. I also just want to be clear that I have nothing against pygmy goats or any other breed. Just from my experience and little research done on the matter, from word of mouth, or whatever...I still believe that the pygmy breed has more kidding complications overall than some of the other breeds and I would have to say that it's primarily because of their build. 

Maybe I am misinformed or don't have enough experience with the breed...but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. :thumb:


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## megan (Aug 25, 2011)

I have ND's and LOVE them and don't know anything about Pygmy's so I'm obviously biased :wink: However I do know that in my location (central coast of Cali) there aren't many as many showing opportunities for Pygmys. And our local 4-H club doesn't have a group for them. This is obviously very geography related. For a quick self poll I would go to craigslist and do a search for both breeds and see what comes up.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

I started with pygmys(22 goats ago) I love mine and thankfully have not had any kidding problems. However I really researched my breeders. I do know people who have had problems kidding though. I just got 2 nigerians. But they are whethers.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Alot of the Pygmy people do live in California. I also know alot of them are out of 4-H and thats why theres not alot of pygmies at most county fairs. Most breeders cannot show at 4-H shows or fair shows (most are adults) and choose not to because most fair shows aren't sanchioned and it doesn't count for an NPGA win.

Alot of Pygmy people are also judges and go around and judge county fairs. :thumb:


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## Red Mare (Aug 17, 2011)

We don't really have a whole bunch of reg Pygmy's down here in south florida. (That I can find at least!)
My ND's sell really well, (least my babies do, as well as my bred does when priced accordingly) and I have never had a problem selling goats I really want to sell. 

As far as C-sections- I had to do one on one of my does this year, but she was a complicated case from start to finish. (Late prolapse, etc.) 
We most likely could have gotten the kid out, but we were hoping to save the kid as well as the doe. Sadly her second buck (the one that was twisted up) didn't make it. 
She was the first out of the 20 + kiddings I have done here though, and out of 40+ that I have done for friends and family here locally. 

No experience with the Pygmy folks though- I think they are freaking adorable! But most of the folks that talk to me want milkers from show lines, so that is what I am getting/keeping. My eventual goal is to have only does that are from MCH parents, or are so themselves as I start to show. That may take awhile though!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I breed Nigerians, for about 5 years now. I have had 2 c-sections, one was before I learned about proper feeding, and one idk what happened there. I've had 2 does deliver on their own with no complications (thank you Lord), but, mostly I'm there at delivery. I believe I've had two or three other situations that would have resulted in the death of both does and kids if not for my intervention. I had two kids delivering at one time (head of one, feet of another presenting), one kid was waded up in a ball (?) and blocking the way out for the last 2 (litter of 5), and this year Bambi had the first kid transverse! Had to dialate her manually, and find head, pulled large kid out by her head! Thought I was delivering a dead kid, but when she took that breath I was so happy! The others literally shot out in another few minutes.

So, Nigerians are not "fool proof" by any means. I'm sure if you look back you'll find many instances of problem deliveries. Luckily (?), I've learned enough now that I feel more confidence when "going in", especially since Bambi's delivery. 

I've also heard that Pygmies have more birthing problems. I almost think that some of the issues I've had were because of the high numbers of multiples in the Niggy's. Maybe it's easier to get "tangled" up when you have alot of kids in there. I had a "teenager" get bred accidentally at 6 mos. and deliver twins perfectly. 

Well, I'm off topic, and very wordy, so I'll go now. Sorry, love this site!


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## nigerianmeadows (Dec 12, 2010)

I have had both, and liked both. Both can have kidding problems, and I think saying one has more than another without true statistics is creating wives tales.

As for one breed over the other, something to keep in mind is what people will most likely find the most value in the future, rather than just today. While pygmy's are good as pets and as meat goats, most people will tend toward using boers if they have room for a meat goat, and as incomes become less dependable, pet purchases are going to decline. In this regard, we moved to keeping nigerians, breeding for heavy, long-term milk production and longer teats. These tend to be near height limits to get the production, but still make excellent pets for as long as that market lasts. I see a huge tendency for people to want back-yard, urban milk goats, and nigerians fit the bill to a "T". They take small spaces exceptionally well, and are made for dairy, and people can keep 2 without hurting their budget too much. Keeping both for now seems like a good idea as you can watch the market trends closely for a while before deciding.


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