# Biter and loud mouth



## 4-Hgoats (Feb 6, 2010)

I have two 4 month old alpine wethers. One of them is a sweetheart, but occasionally is stubborn. The other, is nice and very friendly to everyone, and he is not that stubborn, except when he approaches water. But if he does not get what he wants when he wants it he bites, and anytime i get about 30 ft away from the barn, he hears me and baas his head off. I thnk the neighbors are finding this annoying also. I try to use squirt guns to stop his noise, but when i leave the barn and he figures out that i'll be too far away to come back, he starts again. As for the biting, I just give him a hard slap on the noise and tell him no bite. That seems to work for the moment, but he has a habit of biting for attention. Is there any way to solve this, or should I just get rid of him?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Do you feed them a lot of treats? What happens first when you reach the barn?

The loud calling is often a learned response to food or attention and you may be able to stop this behaviour by changing your routines around the goats. Could also be possible that he feels anxious with you leaving - calling for herdmates (one would have to hear HOW he's calling).

Biting: never had a goat that would bite me but then I don't use treats around them. How old is he, how was he raised.

Getting rid of him seems a harsh solution to a problem of which you don't now the cause, yet.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

You should definitely get rid of them immediately.

Ship them to Bob Jones, SLC, UT ;-)


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## 4-Hgoats (Feb 6, 2010)

I do not feed them alot of goat treats, although I do feed them grass clippings, which they like. When I first come to the barn I feed them grain, and they go crazy over it! I have to squirt them with a water bottle untill they stop pushing my hand with the grain cup. So I do make them step back untill I pour the grain, but they are still learning this concept. I think the one oldest goat yells because it is the head dominant goat and I bottle raise them. So he considers me and brother "mom". He also was the only male I had to choose from, and the only male born to the owners i bought him from. So maybe he just got the hyper gene! He's really not that bad, and I don't want to give him away because the two goats are attached to eachother and us. He's just so energetic. I think he just needs some more training and some more discipline and then he should be fine. I just need ideas of how to go about with the training procedure. Both goats are for 4-H (fair) shows, so they do not need to be perfect tempered pack goats. Although a perfect goat would be nice!!


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

When I first got mine I was happy to have them call out and greet me when I went out to feed them. Then I thought maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

So I just went out more often, so they could hear the door, and went and played with them rather than feed them. 

Their greetings diminished. It is kind of the same thing as desensitizing to dogs. The more they are around them, the less they are bothered. 

If they get fed every time you go out, they associate the two things. 

To break an association, you provide variety after the first action rather than always doing the same thing.

So go out and sometimes don't even greet them. Go out and just play with them. Go out and walk around the corner and disappear until they quit hollering. Just mix it up. Rather than one visit. Break it into five or six. So increase the frequency of the first event, and mix up the second.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Bob hit it on the head.


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## 4-Hgoats (Feb 6, 2010)

Yeah, I understand what your saying, but it seems like my goats will just cry even if I go in to feed my chickens across from the barn. As soon as they hear my yard gate open, they start to call out to me. I think it's just a habit that they won't be able to break. They consider me mom and can't understand why i leave them or don't feed them, or don't go see them. No matter what I do, they cry!


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

you've started a habit by feeding them grain when you go out to them. It will take time and consistency to brake that habit and it's possible that for a while the crying will get worse before it stops.

Whenever you cave in to their attempts for getting attention, you'll enforce the habit.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

In the dog world. Giving attention, treats when leaving or coming home can create anxiety. I would think that giving grain would
do the same. I think I would (and will do) Go into the pen. And clean it, ignore the goat. If possible. LOL 
Maybe pick up his feet. Clean them. Shake up the routine. 

I am learning alot from everyones questions.

As for biting. I do not know. Now I am new to this, goat problems.
So take my thoughts with a grain of salt. 

I know that I went to trim my new goats feet. NO stanchion.
So I had a friend hold him. And he tried bite me in the behind.
I will be building a stanchion soon. LOL


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## cryptobrian (Apr 26, 2012)

ryorkies said:


> In the dog world. Giving attention, treats when leaving or coming home can create anxiety. I would think that giving grain would
> do the same. I think I would (and will do) Go into the pen. And clean it, ignore the goat. If possible. LOL
> Maybe pick up his feet. Clean them. Shake up the routine.


I think you'll be well served to draw the parallels to the dog world. By giving the treats when approaching the noisy goats, you have modeled their behavior with positive reinforcement of the noise making. So, I would suspect that while you could change your routine a bit, if you still end up at some point approaching the goats and give them a treat while they make noise, are still reinforcing that behavior.

I think your suggestion of ignoring the goats is better ...but I'd take it the next step and use the same modeling that got you here in the first place to undo things by reinforcing the behavior that you do want. In other words, reward them for being quiet.


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