# Doing your own fecals?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm really leaning towards getting a microscope and learning to do our own felcals & teaching my kids to do them! 

What is the most inexpensive setup we can get that will work well? 
What supplies and where is the best place to get them?


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I have this microscope http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOU54O/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00 but I think one with two eye pieces would be better. These are the slides and covers I got
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OS6D9I/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00
Other than that you can make your own fecal solution and you will need tongue depressors,small plastic cups, and a strainer. You can get all of those things at Wal-Mart. I went to Fiasco Farm and followed their directions.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! I don't now anything about them haven't used a microscope in many years lol
On fiasco farm website it sayd 4x,10x and 40x. The one you listed on Amazon starts at 40x? Does that make a big difference, or does that mean you can just see better than the ones recommended on fiasco farm? 
I'll order it if it works well.


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## Straw_Hat_Kikos (Feb 27, 2013)

I run my own fecals. 

I have a scope with just one eye piece and it's fine though two may be nicer. Be sure you get a nice one, not cheap, and get the 4x, 10x, and the 40x as well at a 5x and 10x at the top. The one I use has those and more up to a 97x. Never have to use it though. You must have slides and covers. Noe you can do float fecals and that tells you what you have but not how much. You need McMaster slides to get a FEC on your goats. They are expensive though, but are the only way you get a count. If you don't have those then you are just seeing what you have not the amount. 

I also make my own solution.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I bought a $10 Stellar (old, but well made) microscope off ebay, which, IMHO, is definitely the way to go if you can find one. We already had the test tubes, slides, and cover slips. I use little medicine cups for measuring, and I don't weigh the poop; I test approx. 3 berries every time. I also use a little flashlight since the microscope has no light, just a mirror. Cheap, but it works great.
BTW, be sure you get a bottom-lit microscope. You can't see the eggs if the light comes from the top. (Ask me how I know!)


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Noe you can do float fecals and that tells you what you have but not how much. You need McMaster slides to get a FEC on your goats. They are expensive though, but are the only way you get a count. If you don't have those then you are just seeing what you have not the amount.


I've never heard that before. Could you elaborate? What is a FEC and why does it work better? And why doesn't an ordinary float work? It's always seemed to work reliably for me.


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## Straw_Hat_Kikos (Feb 27, 2013)

milkmaid said:


> I've never heard that before. Could you elaborate? What is a FEC and why does it work better? And why doesn't an ordinary float work? It's always seemed to work reliably for me.


FEC is Fecal Egg Count. When you do a float you let it sit for a bit and you get to see in your slide what kind of eggs you have in there. Most common being Barberpole, LiverFluke, Tape, Cocci, etc. You can not get a reliable count of eggs because you are using different amounts of feces, different amounts of solution, different amounts of time sitting, etc. So you will never get a good count as it will ALWAYS be different. It is the only way for Cocci though and is good as you see what they have. The McMasters slides are for determining your Barberpole egg counts. It is most commonly recommend that you worm at 2000 eggs per gram for Barberpole. Only way to tell if you have that much is with the McMasters slides. You use a certain amount of feces, solution, time, etc and it has chambers that holds the same amount of material. When you do a float there could be any amount of fecal material on that slide. So many variables that it is unreliable. McMasters takes all them out so it's the same.

Read more about it here. 
http://horsetalk.co.nz/2013/01/18/doing-a-fecal-egg-count/#.UTAvcaK-2uI
http://www.ansci.wisc.edu/extension...Pdf/Nutrition and Health/Fecal Egg counts.pdf
http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/parasit06/website/mcmaster.htm
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/goats/...atHealth/GoatParasites/TakingFecalSamples.pdf
http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/FSA-9608.pdf


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

HoosierShadow said:


> Thanks! I don't now anything about them haven't used a microscope in many years lol
> On fiasco farm website it sayd 4x,10x and 40x. The one you listed on Amazon starts at 40x? Does that make a big difference, or does that mean you can just see better than the ones recommended on fiasco farm?
> I'll order it if it works well.


I'm not sure what setting I have mine on but I've never had a problem seeing the eggs. I've actually managed to use my camera and take pictures of them through the eyepiece. I think there is a post on here somewhere with a picture.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

This is what it looks like. The picture wasn't zoomed in or anything

Http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/did-fecal-today-what-did-i-find-123190/


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Here's a good article on how to do your own fecals including the Baermann.

http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/83/83-5/Michele_Konnersman.html

and info on purchase of microscope and test kit
http://www.maggidans.com/fecal_test_kit.htm


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks, Straw Hat Kikos!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks everyone lots of great info! 
I am going to check locally for a microscope and see if I can find one on craigslist, or on sale at one of the stores perhaps? If not I"ll look on line.

I will probably just use the fiascofarm guidelines and count how many eggs vs. the expensive slides - just for now. At least get an idea if there are a lot of eggs on that particular slide, and most importantly, what kind.

I knwo there are a lot of different types of worms, I wish I knew what kind the vet had said we deal with on our property.
Our neighbor has a goat & horses, and the husband does their fecals at the farm he works at, they are the ones that told me about round worms showing up after they'd treated w/Cydectin, and had to use Ivermectin to kill the round worm.

Being able to do my own fecals would be so wonderful and so much less stress than worrying about who to do a fecal on since it's $20+ and then gas to get up to the clinic.
Right now I'd love to check all our adult does. They've all been wormed with Cydectin, but I just want to 'make sure.' They are thin, but they have twins/triplets that are taking a lot out of them.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

Haven't used one for fecals, but a few years ago I reviewed a number of readily available microscopes to make recommendations for teachers/classrooms involved in algae sampling.

Hands down winner was a digital microscope that hooked to the computer. That setup let you see the samples on the computer monitor rather than just through the eyepiece and take photos/video through the computer. A system like that would let you easily share photos online to get help identifying what you have. I think the model was 'digital blue' and at the time they were offering huge discounts to educators (including homeschool). My recollection is that it was toplit (backlit doesn't work well for algae).

Alt -- check with your local university or medical school 'surplus' store for quality used microscopes at a fraction of the price.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone! I am going to order the microscope that Chelsboers recommended! Ordering it in just a few minutes! I have amazon prime free trial, so I may pay the extra to get it next day. I have a doe that is run down w/triplets, so I'd like to make sure it's babies and nothing else is plaguing them.
We wormed w/Cydectin, but never know if there is something else. Would like that peace of mind! 

Oh, BTW, Cover glass is the same thing as slip covers right? I absolutely know NOTHING about these things LOL

So with ordering the microscope and the slides Chelsboers suggested that's all we need to get started? 

later I can order the better slides, but for now I want to keep it simple until we learn how to do this lol
my son is really excited! Would be great if later his science teacher would let him bring it in and teach how to use it. Might even talk to the livestock 4-H group about learning how to do fecals, I think it would be great!


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## PearcePastures (Oct 6, 2012)

Someone showed me this place awhile back and I saved it as a bookmark for when I do my Spring ordering of goat stuff. http://www.maggidans.com/fecal_test_kit.htm

Seems like some pretty good pricing. Now if I can just get StrawHatKikos to come up for a visit to teach me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

goodie..Love this information...learning to do my own too : ) at 12 a pop at the vet...you bet I want to learn !!!


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

We recently started doing ours too. We use little jelly jars that you can get in the canning section for mashing our berries and soaking. We use cheese cloth to strain and its strained into a clean jar. We use a rubber band to hold our cheese cloth on and then our the solution. You will also need test tubes and somethin to hold them. i bought a stand. The glass covers you place on top of your test tube for the alloted time to collect the eggs then that gets placed on your slide to go under your microscope. We make our own float solution with epson salt. We use popsicle sticks for mashing. The biggest issue I have is the straining. Who wants to clean cheese cloth full of the poo left overs?? I just havent found a good substitue. Sometimes I just toss it away. Still cheaper than the vet. We just use the fiasco farms counting method.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! I do need to get test tubes, any idea where I can get them locally? There is some styrofoam on the side porch from a carpet cleaner I bought, I'll have to bring it in and see if I can make it work for a stand.

I am going to go back to the fiasco farm site and see what all she used. I have an old strainer thingy that we don't use, I can stand using it and washing the poo out <I can wash it in the creek them put it in some bleach water when I am done then scrub it w/dishsoap lol>.
Popsicle sticks are like $.50-$1.00 at the dollar store.

It'll be Wed when we are supposed to get the Microscope, so I have a couple of days


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

happybleats said:


> goodie..Love this information...learning to do my own too : ) at 12 a pop at the vet...you bet I want to learn !!!


I could honestly deal with $12 for a fecal.
Here, the cheapest one I've found is the vet we use and they are around $20, BUT, add in gas since they are about 20-25min drive away...
The vets in town all want right about $30 per fecal.

The horse hospital nearby did one once for $12, but the guy isn't there anymore, and they act like they are going to die if they try doing a goat fecal.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

With your strainer you have to be sure the holes are super fine or you will get all kinds of mess on your sample that will float to the top and make it harder to see the eggs. I tried one I had but it didnt work. I gag when I go to clean it after the test so I just started tossing the cheese cloth. haha. I like doing the fecals myself becuase if you need an immediate answer you can get it! The test tubes I ordered on amazon for like $10 or less. I think it was 12 of them that came with my set. You could probably go to a teachers store or some type of a lab store but we dont have anything like that around here. Im actually testing tomorrow! I have a buck who is a little thin and I want to make sure its not any type of worm causing it.


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## Pixie13 (Mar 2, 2013)

Doing our own fecals have really helped us keep our herd in check. It is relatively cheap to get started too. I think we spent around $74.00 on a microscope. You can even get them cheaper than that. We also bought all of our test tubes, slides ect. from a place call American Science and Surplus online. I spent $22.00 there; a real bargin on glassware, tubestands ect. It saves money in the long run, plus it is very interesting and you learn so much!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

kristinatucker said:


> With your strainer you have to be sure the holes are super fine or you will get all kinds of mess on your sample that will float to the top and make it harder to see the eggs. I tried one I had but it didnt work. I gag when I go to clean it after the test so I just started tossing the cheese cloth. haha. I like doing the fecals myself becuase if you need an immediate answer you can get it! The test tubes I ordered on amazon for like $10 or less. I think it was 12 of them that came with my set. You could probably go to a teachers store or some type of a lab store but we dont have anything like that around here. Im actually testing tomorrow! I have a buck who is a little thin and I want to make sure its not any type of worm causing it.


Thanks! I wonder if a pharmacy would have anything I could use? I think I did see test tubes at our feed store. Wondering if I could use a blood collection type tube?

Yeah that's why I said I'd probably just buy cheese cloth, figured the holes might be too big. Not like I'd have to use huge pieces of cheese cloth lol
Of course I have never ever bought cheese cloth before - never needed it, so I'll have fun searching for it.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

"Cover glass is the same thing as slip covers right?"

yes


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks!

We should get everything today! I am going to go get the other things I need from the store sometime today so I can hopefully try to get it set up for at least 1 fecal tonight. 

Amazing....I think only goat people can be so excited about the possability of inspecting poo up close & personal lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

The blood test tubes should work- just make sure you have the right ratio of poop to the epson salt solution. 
When you actually see the first "egg" you will recognize it easily the next time you see one! (I did my very first
fecal last Sunday! I found some eggs, no idea what kind- but I found them!)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! I ordered the ones that were recommended on fiasco farm's site.

How do I get the right ratio of poop and epsom salt? I don't have a gram scale, I was hoping to find one.

I've read some people say 3 poop pellets from a standard size goat? If so, what about the babies?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

My gram scale weighed out 5 adult Alpine doe berries as 3 grams. (My dh thinks I am totally crazy now! lol)
Kid berries are about 8 or 10. Then I added the 25 ml of flotation solution. (super saturated epson salts). 
After mushing it good, I strained it with a tea ball! It kept most of the debris out. 

One mistake that I made was that I had the berries in pill bottles, Something came up and I had to run
an errand - so I put them in the fridge. (2 hrs. or so). The berries got a real tough skin on them- hard to 
mash up and that caused more clumps than I thought should be in the solution. So, next time I use fresh or
won't do it. (I used to do fecals for a vet, but that has been years, took awhile to find the eggs!)


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't know if this has been mentioned but if you tubes are rounded on the bottom you can put them in a small cup of rice to hold them upright. As far as collection, I watch them with a ziplock back in hand and collect as it comes out. I write the name with a sharpie and if I don't check the sample right away I put it in the refrigerator until I can (usually not more than a couple hours).


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Goats Rock said:


> My gram scale weighed out 5 adult Alpine doe berries as 3 grams. (My dh thinks I am totally crazy now! lol)
> Kid berries are about 8 or 10. Then I added the 25 ml of flotation solution. (super saturated epson salts).
> After mushing it good, I strained it with a tea ball! It kept most of the debris out.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll use those amounts of poo when we start doing this!

I forgot to make the float solution last night, so it might be tomorrow before I can do this  Unless I can do it sooner? The fiasco farm site says to add epsom salt every now and then and shake for 24hrs. until a layer of salt is on the bottom.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It takes about 24 hrs. to make the solution- I kept adding epson salts to a 1 qt. mason jar - just under 3/4 full with water. next time I'll fill it just over a half with water. Then keep adding a bunch of epson salts until it sits on the bottom. I shook the jar everytime I went into the kitchen! Strain it with a milk strainer, or coffee strainer. (the Mr. Coffee paper strainer thing)! 

I made a sugar solution, too. I read somewhere that cocci oocytes can be seen better in a saturated sugar solution. Made the same way, but started out with boiling water. What a sticky mess! I haven't had a chance to try the sugar stuff yet.


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