# Please help!



## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

I bought a pygmy doe and was not told she was bred to a boar buck she is in labor now and I can feel only a head and a fluid filled sack next to the head is this normal??


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

there should be two feet first try to see if you can get the feet out


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Can you call me? I can PM you my number...


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

How long has she been in labor?


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Pop any sacs you feel, so you can tell what’s going on. Then feel down the head and neck, and find the front legs. If they are folded under, hook your finger under them and pull them up and forward, one at a time. One you have both legs straight and the head in centered on top of them, begin pulling. Pull down, towards the udder, not straight out.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

It could be normal, depending on how long she's been like that. I agree to try and find a foot and pull it out and down toward the hocks. 

how is she now?


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Tenacross said:


> It could be normal, depending on how long she's been like that. I agree to try and find a foot and pull it out and down toward the hocks.
> 
> how is she now?


I can only get two fingers in there I have felt around and can not find any legs. She has stopped pushing


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Tenacross said:


> It could be normal, depending on how long she's been like that. I agree to try and find a foot and pull it out and down toward the hocks.
> 
> how is she now?


I can only get two fingers in there I have felt around and can not find any legs. She has stopped pushing


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

I can only get two fingers in there I have felt around and can not find any legs. She has stopped pushing


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Kath G. said:


> How long has she been in labor?


I noticed mucus hanging out at about 7 pm Mississippi time I noticed her having contractions at around 8 I never saw her water break and it's about 10 pm now


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Do you have any lube? Sometimes you can help them dilate by running your finger around the edge of the cervix. If you have any CMPK , MFO or Calcium drench, give her 60 ccs. None of us are there to know, but you should try to get in further and see if that's really a head and if you can find a foot.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

How long has she been pushing? Do you have any local goat mentor to turn to for hands-on help?
@Jessica84 , @mariarose , @HoosierShadow ,@IHEARTGOATS , can you help?

ETA I type too slowly, thanks for answering the time frame.


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Tenacross said:


> Do you have any lube? Sometimes you can help them dilate by running your finger around the edge of the cervix. If you have any CMPK , MFO or Calcium drench, give her 60 ccs. None of us are there to know, but you should try to get in further and see if that's really a head and if you can find a foot.


I have nothing this was kinda unexpected and I know it's a head I had my finger in the kids mouth and it was suckling on it I have tried to get in as far as I can I have a feeling the legs are bent under neath all I can feel is the head back to they eye sockets I can't even feel any ears. The tip of the nose is about 1/2 inch from coming out.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Do you have any selenium? Bo-Se would be best.


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Kath G. said:


> How long has she been pushing? Do you have any local goat mentor to turn to for hands-on help?
> @Jessica84 , @mariarose , @HoosierShadow ,@IHEARTGOATS , can you help?
> 
> ETA I type too slowly, thanks for answering the time frame.


No I am new to the area and have no one here my husband is out of state


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Maybe someone can recommend a substitute for lube. Crisco or vegetable oil maybe. You need to reach in and find a foot.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

OK if you have any human lube that would do just fine; or coconut oil works well.
Olive oil if you don't have those.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You have to bring those legs forward. You'll have to go in with your hand. If you do not have lube, then use lard or olive oil, something. Youll have to go in and find the front legs and gently pull them forward, taking care to not rip the canal wall.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I forgot to say you'll have to push the chest back to leave space for the legs to come forward. Yes, coconut oil would be great. Any unused fat, really.

If you have a glove that would be good. If not make sure your fingernails are short, smooth, and clean.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

They come out well with one leg forward sometimes too. I've pulled a lot of kids with one FRONT foot/leg and a head in the proper position.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

If you can prop her back end up higher than the front gravity can help get the kid back in a bit and make room for your hand to get in there and find the leg.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Tenacross said:


> They come out well with one leg forward sometimes too.


I've had to do that, but not in a Pygmy trying to birth a Boer cross. Try hard to get both legs before you try with just one.

Slipping a noose over one hoof, and pulling steadily with the hand outside while the hand inside helps guide can be useful. Then slip the noose over the other leg.

The poor thing. She'll be screaming while all this is going on. Try hard to ignore this and focus on what your hand needs to do. You can do this.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When both legs are forward, check and make certain her head hasn't turned back, because it needs to be forward. Gently pull the legs out until they are fully extended to leave more room for the head to come out.

I've done this before. You can do this, you're doing great. Breathe.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

You got this. 

Be calm, collected and methodical.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)




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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

mariarose said:


> You have to bring those legs forward. You'll have to go in with your hand. If you do not have lube, then use lard or olive oil, something. Youll have to go in and find the front legs and gently pull them forward, taking care to not rip the canal wall.


A sac broke while I was in there and a lot of fluid came out I can feel one front foot but I just can't get my hand in far enough to get a good hold


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Helpful picture. I hope the baby takes after the Pygmy, not the Boer.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

KJF1993 said:


> I just can't get my hand in far enough to get a good hold


I understand. You are doing great. Try making a lark's head noose and use a finger to nudge the loop over that hoof.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

KJF1993 said:


> A sac broke while I was in there and a lot of fluid came out I can feel one front foot but I just can't get my hand in far enough to get a good hold


It might not seem like it, but that could be progress. Keep trying. If you can get that foot out, a dry towel will help hold on to it.


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

I keep trying but all I can get is a finger on it. It seems to be in the correct position. Could I have broke her water? When I poped that sack


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, that is what happened. It's fine.

You mean the leg is in the correct position now, lying forward along and in front of the head?


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, it was probably her water. Can you possibly get a twine around that foot and behind the ears to pull it out?


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

**two separate twines, one for hoof, and one for head. You can put some disinfectant in a jar and stuff the twines down in it for a few minutes to disinfect them.


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## KJF1993 (Jan 5, 2018)

Her vulva is 10 times more swollen than it was I don’t know if it was from me being in there?? The hoof is right by her jaw I just can’t get in far enough I keep trying to manipulate and get either my hands or the twine on it but I just can’t get a hold of it I can’t get far enough to feel ears


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Take a drink of water and clear your mind. You are doing very, very well.

Take a look at the picture that Tenacross posted. That leg must come forward because that is the only chance that baby has to make it's way out. You are going to have to use a bit of force to get in, but you must. I know you are scared. But he can't come out all hunched up like he is. You can do this. You ARE doing this.


The swollen vulva is just what happens when she's being stretched like she is.. You can do this.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I can't count how many kids I've got out alive that I thought at one point it wasn't coming out. Keep trying.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I don’t have any experience with it, but have read about hooking a finger in the eye socket and pulling it out that way. You can reach its eye, right? Might be worth a try, because it has to come out. It’s either get it out anyway possible, or lose the kid or dam, or have a c-section done.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You CAN reach that hoof to slip the noose on. You CAN, You CAN. That hoof must come forward and that leg straighten out.

You are doing this.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm going to take a nap now. I'll check back in soon. Good luck.

@Tenacross I hope I did not come across as dismissive to you. I was just intently typing. I thought what you said and posted was really helpful.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Keep working on getting the leg. The one pep talk I have to give myself is that my doe is going to DIE if I don’t get that kid out. That usually gives me more courage to get a little firmer on getting it out.
If you need to gently push the head back and see if that gives you a little more room to get that leg. Use your hand and push the head back then slide it to the side to grab the leg. You will probably only be able to hook it with a finger but once you get it hang on and gently pull. You are doing great! And you have a lot of people here for you! Don’t give up! If you need to take a minute and catch your breath and calm down


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Everything is very slippery. I don't havent used the eye socket before, but once you have the hoof pulled forward, you grab that lower jaw and pull. Out and DOWN.

You are going to have to use quite a lot of force to pull that leg forward. You can push the nose back a bit to get the hoof. And/Or push the vulva back towards her head to get that hoof. 

You are doing a great job, you can do this.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I just woke up to this thread.... How did it go?????????????????


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

There has been no word from the OP. I've been checking, terribly worried.


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## Noma’s Kids (Dec 30, 2017)

mariarose said:


> There has been no word from the OP. I've been checking, terribly worried.


Oh my gosh I hope she is ok. I've been reading the thread and am amazed at how everyone was helping and she was doing and following the thread. My prayers are with you.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

She was without even her husband. Tough spot. I don't know how it turned out, but I have a feeling it is concluded now...


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## Noma’s Kids (Dec 30, 2017)

mariarose said:


> She was without even her husband. Tough spot. I don't know how it turned out, but I have a feeling it is concluded now...


I saw that she was totally alone. I'm afraid.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

I was hoping to wake up to good news. She was in a tough spot all the way around...Boer/Pygmy...uhg.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

What a difficult situation! Maybe OP was able to find a vet? Or she's been so busy dealing with a healthy new baby that she hasn't posted? I hope everything's all right.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm so angry at the former owners. I wish @KJF1993 would come back. I hope she does not think we are upset with her.


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## Noma’s Kids (Dec 30, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I'm so angry at the former owners. I wish @KJF1993 would come back. I hope she does not think we are upset with her.


Her first kidding, all by herself, exhausted and whatever else has happened she may be overwhelmed. I hope she comes back too. Just needs time.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Oh dear! I would not wish this scenario on anyone.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I sure hope this had an okay ending. I read it last night, holding my breath the whole time. I was so sad for her...I know that was just terrifying.

I am glad @mariarose said it...I felt so angry at the people that let a boer goat breed that tiny thing. Why didn't they abort it.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Sometimes people don't know a goat is pregnant until it's too late to abort.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, no one was about to explode on that poor woman last night. Our focus was on trying to help. I hope she comes back. My heart breaks for that poor doe.

Last night reminded me all over again why I sold all my minis (except for 2. I still have 2). But I have no more dwarves. I'm so sorry for the doe, and the woman trying to cope.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Well, there's no reason to "explode" on anyone. It's not like the owner did anything wrong and we have no information about the circumstances of how this goat got pregnant. It may have been an accident, and most of the time these large dad/small mom crosses work out just fine. I have a friend whose Nigie does were constantly getting in with her LaMancha buck. Every year for many years she had at least one of those crosses and never once had a problem birth. It seemed like the full-sized does were more likely to have problems! So there's no one to be angry at here. Difficult births can happen to any doe. 

I just feel awful for this poor woman who had to deal with one by herself at night, and it sounds like her first time witnessing a birth. That's a very rough situation.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Damfino said:


> Sometimes people don't know a goat is pregnant until it's too late to abort.


I do understand that, but just judging by what she said last night it was information that was kept from her when she bought the doe.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Damfino said:


> Well, there's no reason to "explode" on anyone.


I only meant some of us were exploding in our heads at the former owners, but that none were wasting time saying to this poor woman, "What were they thinking???"


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Any news???? I hate to hear that the birth was difficult!!!! Poor momma goat and human!!!!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh wow, I am just now getting a chance to get on here (been fighting stomach flu). You all did an awesome job with assisting! I hope and pray that mama and baby made it. Hopefully the OP will update with the outcome. 
I've never dealt with anything smaller than a Boer/Nubian, but we've had a few tricky births over the years and only 1 doe could I not get her kids out alive (tangled mess years ago it was awful). I've had kids present head first with no way to go in and grab a foot, thankfully I was able to deliver them with just a head! In fact I had to do that with our last doe that kidded. Her buck kid thankfully wasn't too huge. We have a doe that is turning 5 and her dam delivered her head only.
I've delivered them with 1 foot out as Tenacross showed a pic of and those are usually good, normal births without any need to assist.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

She said in the start she was not told the kid would be boer. That is so very wrong! Even if the seller didn’t know the they could have aborted it, they should not have passed it onto someone without telling them.
I’m with you Mariarose! I think little nigis are the cutest things In the world! Every time I see one I want to take it home so badly but then I think about my boer bucks and all the oops I have had and I just don’t want to chance it.
I really hope this turned out well.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I had a Boer buck break out when my Nigge Doe was in almost killed her......


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Everyone who helped guide her, needs to be highly commended, thank you for your dedication. 
You all are awesome.









I hope all is OK. I am worried for her.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree, you all are awesome! I too hope everything is okay. I wish she would update us so we know what the outcome is and can support her in her efforts. Raising animals is not for the faint of heart, we all need that support in tough times.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Me too and yes we sure so.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Just found this thread. Praying that all is OK!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Wow. I hope it went ok


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Just found it too. Hoping all turned out ok.


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