# Diseased goats and drinking raw



## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

I currently have a CAE positive goat that I'm milking. I've read lots about drinking raw milk from CAE pos goats and people's opinions on this and I know it varies. I wanted to know if there are other diseases (like johnes, etc) that would warrant not drinking the raw milk of a goat. 

I know this is always a touchy subject, but I am not asking about drinking raw in general (I am a firm believer in it) I am just not educated in goat diseases and their effect or lack thereof on goats milk or health concerns related to drinking diseased goats milk. 

We've always drunk our goats milk raw, but this is the first time we've ever dealt with a CAE pos goat (by dealing with a dishonest breeder) and she had not yet been tested for other diseases. I want to know if I should hold off drinking her milk until those other diseases are tested for. Thanks so much!!!


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## kc8lsk (Jan 10, 2014)

Cae is not transferable to humans so on that score your fine I don't test for the others and I drink raw so I'm probobally not much help there but I love my raw milk


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

kc8lsk said:


> Cae is not transferable to humans so on that score your fine I don't test for the others and I drink raw so I'm probobally not much help there but I love my raw milk


Lol, that is what I am doing right now. But I've been scared (reading too much online and on these forums) lately about disease! My other goats tested negative for everything g last year, but this new goat is the one I'm not sure of. She looks perfectly healthy though (although she is CAE +) but I know that doesn't necessarily mean much. I've read johnes can rear it's ugly head later in life without warning, but this girl is 5yo now. Am I being too paranoid?! I love my raw milk too, as does everyone in my family.

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## kc8lsk (Jan 10, 2014)

Well if all your others tested neg. then you can keep her milk separate and just pasturize hers or you can not worry about it and drink raw


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

kc8lsk said:


> Well if all your others tested neg. then you can keep her milk separate and just pasturize hers or you can not worry about it and drink raw


I don't mind drinking the CAE pos goat milk. I wanted know if anyone knew of anymore diseases that contaminate the milk for human consumption. I can't really find much info on this. I don't want to have to pasturize . For ME it kinda defeats the purpose of having dairy goats. Where I live raw milk is illegal which is the reason we ended up getting our own goats. Plus, she is the only goat currently in milk . Thank you so much for your reply!

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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm with K8 on this. I don't test for anything and we drink raw too. It's amazing how scary a little knowledge can be! I put my head in the sand and just don't think about it or worry about it. In other words....I'm probably not a good one to go by either. LOL


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

kccjer said:


> I'm with K8 on this. I don't test for anything and we drink raw too. It's amazing how scary a little knowledge can be! I put my head in the sand and just don't think about it or worry about it. In other words....I'm probably not a good one to go by either. LOL


Lol, yeah...the knowledge is crippling me!! I'm pregnant, so that's a controversial topic I've read too much about (drinking raw milk while pregnant). I have kids that drink raw, another issue. And now this...a goat that is diseased!! Part of me wishes I never tested lol! But I think it would be hard (and wrong ethically) to sell their babies or the goats to other people looking for disease free animals/herd. Although we are only using these goats for ourselves it's just something I have to always keep in mind. I can't keep all the babies for sure!! But right now I'm just concerned about our milk and it's safety. I'm sure people have been drinking this stuff for centuries with far less health issues than we have now, but as a mama of 6 soon to 7 I felt I had to at least do my due diligence. I am still drinking it though

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we test for CAE only, there is of course some risk in consuming any raw foods...including goats milk..but from things I read the risk is higher eating raw spinach or a cantaloup then drinking raw milk...lol...being clean cuts your risk...washing your hands, the udder and teats, keeping your buckets and jars clean and sterile...
as for diseases to watch for...the only one I can think of that humans can catch from animals are listeriosis (scary)...rabies, sore mouth and pink eye...(pregnant women should never handles a goat with pink eye or chlamydia)
Im sure there are other things but this is what I have top my head...

On a side note...when we tested our herd for the first time we had a few CAE positive...they went to a home who had no other goats and her purpose was to drink the milk... she has been very happy with her girls...they have no CAE symptoms so other than testing positive..you would never know..


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Diseases arent much worry with raw milk for the most part. Its things like e coli you would need to be worried about.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Brucelloisis is the only disease I can think of that can be spread to people through milk, and that's a really bad disease.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

Brucellosis is what comes immediately to mind.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

happybleats said:


> we test for CAE only, there is of course some risk in consuming any raw foods...including goats milk..but from things I read the risk is higher eating raw spinach or a cantaloup then drinking raw milk...lol...being clean cuts your risk...washing your hands, the udder and teats, keeping your buckets and jars clean and sterile...
> as for diseases to watch for...the only one I can think of that humans can catch from animals are listeriosis (scary)...rabies, sore mouth and pink eye...(pregnant women should never handles a goat with pink eye or chlamydia)
> Im sure there are other things but this is what I have top my head...
> 
> On a side note...when we tested our herd for the first time we had a few CAE positive...they went to a home who had no other goats and her purpose was to drink the milk... she has been very happy with her girls...they have no CAE symptoms so other than testing positive..you would never know..


Thank you happy bleats. I try to be very careful with sanitation and hygiene with the milking girls. I wash the udder, use hand sanitizer, teat spray, try and keep my "milking parlor" as clean as possible as well as their pen.

I know there are risks with drinking raw milk and many other things but I'd rather take those risks than anything I can find nowadays in the supermarket. I really don't trust much produce or dairy available to the masses and forget about processed food! That's where my real fear lies, not with raw milk. I just want to be educated about what could be a possible risk.

This CAE girl has no symptoms either. If it weren't for the test we would not have known anything! Thank again happy bleats for the info!

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> Diseases arent much worry with raw milk for the most part. Its things like e coli you would need to be worried about.


I'm hoping that is the case! Thanks!

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Brucelloisis is the only disease I can think of that can be spread to people through milk, and that's a really bad disease.


Aaaahhhhh!!! Something new for me to research and pull my hair out about, thank you . No really thank you, I did not even know about this. I have my homework cut out for me. Symptoms, tests, prevention, etc. This one scares me and I don't even know what it is yet!

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

Hobbyfarmer said:


> Brucellosis is what comes immediately to mind.


I'm on it now, lol. Thank you!

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

Is brucellosis something people test for often? Is it along the same lines as e. Coli or listeriosis? I see that symptoms can be similar. 


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh gosh, why did I say that lol. Brucellosis is a very serious disease that the state has to be involved in, as it can infect people. It's found mostly in dairy cattle, but goats have had it too. I think there's a vaccine for it but no treatment, and you can test your livestock for it.
But don't stress, it's a pretty rare disease now days because of eradication of infected animals. I very much doubt your goat has it, to be positive


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Please remember people were drinking milk long before Louis Pasteur!


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Oh gosh, why did I say that lol. Brucellosis is a very serious disease that the state has to be involved in, as it can infect people. It's found mostly in dairy cattle, but goats have had it too. I think there's a vaccine for it but no treatment, and you can test your livestock for it.
> 
> But don't stress, it's a pretty rare disease now days because of eradication of infected animals. I very much doubt your goat has it, to be positive


Ha! Don't stress, now someone tells me, lol. I'm on the brink if testing my goats for every possible disease known to ruminants! You think since I've been drinking this milk for a couple of months I would have been infected by now?? I should be in the clear right?

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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

If you've been drinking it this long without issue then I'd think it would be safe. You can always get it tested for disease just to have peace of mind
(Which I'm thinkin you need right now!  ) .
I don't think it's too expensive to get it tested....


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

Chadwick said:


> Please remember people were drinking milk long before Louis Pasteur!


Ain't that the truth! Under ordinary circumstances I would have no doubt about drinking raw milk really. I've just really been scared by all the disease talk and this is my first time dealing with them. I've lived in places around the world where people drink raw goats milk, without the sanitary precautions we take (no waging udder, no sterilizing, no straining even) and they are healthy and have been doing it for decades if not centuries.

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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I may be wrong, but I think TB is also transferrable to humans? 

I think you should stop worrying too much. TB and Burcellosis isn't very popular. as for the other diseases, I've read there ARE links, but it's not proven, so I think you're safe (e.g. Johne's and crones are supposedly linked, but I haven't seen any article that definitively links the two). I think there's a list somewhere to show whether there's TB and Burcellosis in your area.....

hope that calms you down just a little bit.....

oh, and last thing, where I live, there's no testing for anything, and raw milk is sold in the grocery store..... no widespread milk related diseases here.....


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

canyontrailgoats said:


> If you've been drinking it this long without issue then I'd think it would be safe. You can always get it tested for disease just to have peace of mind
> 
> (Which I'm thinkin you need right now!  ) .
> 
> I don't think it's too expensive to get it tested....


I think you are absolutely right. It's probably going to give peace if mind. Part of me is scared to test! Catch 22 huh...

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> I may be wrong, but I think TB is also transferrable to humans?
> 
> I think you should stop worrying too much. TB and Burcellosis isn't very popular. as for the other diseases, I've read there ARE links, but it's not proven, so I think you're safe (e.g. Johne's and crones are supposedly linked, but I haven't seen any article that definitively links the two). I think there's a list somewhere to show whether there's TB and Burcellosis in your area.....
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yeah, I've read that as well (johnes linked to Crohn's disease) but haven't seen anything too convincing outside of correlative evidence. I also read that drinking raw milk from a doe that has johnes and shows no symptoms can help with other diseases like HIV so I'm not sure what to think.

Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking? I'm sure it's probably more rural and there is less overall intervention and meddling with the natural development of the animals. Sometimes I think we are the ones who make these tough for the animals and inadvertently for ourselves. If we'd just let things be!

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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Barbados.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> Barbados.


Aha!! Love that place. I have family that live in Bermuda and have visited Barbados a couple of times when I was younger. Lucky you!! Yeah I can see raw milk being sold in the store there But I'm sure things are a bit more "natural" over there than here when it comes to animal husbandry. What a gorgeous place to raise goats, makes me want to move...or at least visit again.

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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Q disease is zoonotic and can pass thru milk.
If there is a CL abscess in the udder and it bursts, the bacteria can make humans sick.
TB can be spread thru the milk
Listeria is reported to in some bulletins, but not in others, so I am not sure.
Brucellosis can be.

Some people with HIV/Aids swear that drinking raw milk from CAE+ does helps them fight their disease.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

lanafana said:


> Aha!! Love that place. I have family that live in Bermuda and have visited Barbados a couple of times when I was younger. Lucky you!! Yeah I can see raw milk being sold in the store there But I'm sure things are a bit more "natural" over there than here when it comes to animal husbandry. What a gorgeous place to raise goats, makes me want to move...or at least visit again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


it's not as natural as you think.......


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

lottsagoats said:


> Q disease is zoonotic and can pass thru milk.
> If there is a CL abscess in the udder and it bursts, the bacteria can make humans sick.
> TB can be spread thru the milk
> Listeria is reported to in some bulletins, but not in others, so I am not sure.
> ...


Lottsagoats thank you! More to think about, huh?

There's no way to know about a cl abcess IN the udder until it's too late or would there be other signs?

Don't know about Q disease and didn't think about TB!

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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> it's not as natural as you think.......


Really?? I guess the nostalgia of being there decades ago and from what I vaguely remember. Misconception I guess, but still beautiful....yes? I guess times change everywhere.

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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

yea, feed stores are full of pre-mixed feed, vets just tell ppl to worm every 6-8 weeks no matter what, no cocci treatment, just tie them out, or let everyone breed with everyone.......... and I'm a freak b/c I care about my animals......

it's nice and pretty, but like everywhere, there are flaws.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> yea, feed stores are full of pre-mixed feed, vets just tell ppl to worm every 6-8 weeks no matter what, no cocci treatment, just tie them out, or let everyone breed with everyone.......... and I'm a freak b/c I care about my animals......
> 
> it's nice and pretty, but like everywhere, there are flaws.


Yea, that's tough. It's a shame that we've lost touch with how to live naturally on so many levels 

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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

i know! and it gets harder and harder to go back. but.....fight the good fight!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

All 50 states are Brucellosis free. The only 2 states that have TB is one herd in CA and some small areas in MI.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

goathiker said:


> All 50 states are Brucellosis free. The only 2 states that have TB is one herd in CA and some small areas in MI.


I love you right now goathiker!! Now that is some good info. One less thing to stress about.

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think someone said this already but I will say it again...: ) don't worry so much...keep your milking clean and enjoy..Raw goats milk is good food...I would feed it to a new born baby before feeding Formula! There are far worse in the grocery store than in your bucket! GMO, Hydrogenated oils, process foods, scary meat!! ..the list is long...take me forever to get groceries since I read everything..!! But we are healthier for the effort!


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I think someone said this already but I will say it again...: ) don't worry so much...keep your milking clean and enjoy..Raw goats milk is good food...I would feed it to a new born baby before feeding Formula! There are far worse in the grocery store than in your bucket! GMO, Hydrogenated oils, process foods, scary meat!! ..the list is long...take me forever to get groceries since I read everything..!! But we are healthier for the effort!


Thanks happybleats, I needed to hear it again....and again. I totally agree with you about what horrible, empty food we are presented with these days. At one point I really felt like I was poisoning myself and my family with store bought food and just couldn't bear it any longer. This started my move towards self sufficiency and homesteading. I felt I had no other choice, you can barely trust things labeled organic these days. And you walk out of a health food store with two small shopping bags, barely filled, but spent at least $100! So, we got chickens, dairy goats, and started to grow our own food. And there's no turning back for me now! And you are right...not only are we healthier for the effort physically, but mentally and emotionally as well (especially if you have kiddos). Thanks again.

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

agreed...we raise our own meat, egg and milk..and trying to grow our own produce..hoping it will be better this year lol ( no green thumbs here) our wacky Texas weather doesn't make it easy either..every bit helps...and if we do the best we can..then we are doing good!


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

happybleats said:


> agreed...we raise our own meat, egg and milk..and trying to grow our own produce..hoping it will be better this year lol ( no green thumbs here) our wacky Texas weather doesn't make it easy either..every bit helps...and if we do the best we can..then we are doing good!


Ditto that! I hope you have a bountiful harvest this year!

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## eqstrnathlete (Mar 16, 2013)

We drank raw CAE + milk for years, until I moved into a neg herd.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

eqstrnathlete said:


> We drank raw CAE + milk for years, until I moved into a neg herd.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Yea, I'm hearing that this is quite normal and okay, which makes me feel much better. Our CAE girl is our best milker so I would be crushed if we couldn't drink her milk! I'm just praying CAE is the only disease she has.

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lanafana said:


> Ditto that! I hope you have a bountiful harvest this year!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Thank you!!

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