# Advice on how to cure a rough coat? *pic*



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

The doe I just bought has a really rough coat. Mine also could also use a little help. Not sure what I can give them to bring back their luster. Giving hay pellets, ram and ewe pellets, lactating goat feed, (all mixed together-they love it) grass hay, and providing loose minerals, both types of salt licks, baking soda, and they are all on pasture. Not sure what could be missing in my goats.

But whatever can help mine is sure to help this new doe as well.

Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: Advice on how to cure a rough coat?*

I would get rid of the salt licks...if they use a salt lick they will probably not eat enough of the minerals. Mineral mixes usually have plently of salt in them and if they are getting the salt they need somewhere else then they won't eat the minerals.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Advice on how to cure a rough coat?*

get a fecal ...may have worms or cocci....

How are the gums/eye coloring?

treat for lice.....

copper deficency... any fish tail look..? give Copper Bolus


----------



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

*Re: Advice on how to cure a rough coat?*

Pam, what is fish tail?

Here is a photo of the coat.


----------



## shadycreekgoats (Mar 23, 2009)

Here is a link to a really helpful site about copper deficiency in goats and how to treat it. HTH 

http://u-sayranch.com/main/2010/01/reme ... ure-bolus/

By the picture, I would defiantly say a copper bolus would fix that rough coat problem. I've heard that can be one of the signs of copper deficiency.


----------



## Gumtree (Aug 15, 2009)

copper deficiency or worms........


----------



## zoomom (Feb 27, 2010)

shadycreekgoats said:


> Here is a link to a really helpful site about copper deficiency in goats and how to treat it. HTH
> 
> http://u-sayranch.com/main/2010/01/reme ... ure-bolus/


So some people feed ROOT KILLER to their goats?

Somehow that just seems wrong. :shrug:


----------



## Iwantgoats (Oct 3, 2008)

I know a guy who uses fabric softner for worm treatment and has done so for years. I wouldn't use it but he swears by it.

Edit to add: I would worm them. I had one I brought home who had a really bad coat and after worming her coat took awhile but now it looks good.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Pam, what is fish tail?


 Sorry.. it to so long to answer....at the tail end ...it has an appearance of a fish tail......kinda like a V ...the hair will be missing in between... making it look V....like (fishtail like) ...here is a post with a pic ....hopefull you can see it......in the pic ...the goat has her tail down.. but you can see the V shape there..some can have even less hair...than that... but... you can still make out the V (fishtail).....hope this helps.... :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12408&view=previous


----------



## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

So goats that are on a goat feed and get minerals still need to be given extra copper? I thought they should have enough copper in the food... No one around here sells copsure. I don't know about the copper sulfate. I guess I'll check on that when I go through town. onder: Do you just let them take what they want or do you measure it per goat?( the blue crystals)

Gina


----------



## Realfoodmama (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm curious why the coat indicates a worm problem?

And I assume you mean internal, not external parasites, yes?

I have a goat who's coat looks similar and to be honest I assumed it was normal for her, but now I am thinking it might be a symptom of worms?


----------



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Here is a photo of her tail. Hopefully it will help. 
She eats the loose minerals like crazy. Poor thing. I think she was neglected. She is boney and ribby, and has greasy, flakey skin. I feel so bad for her.

She is definatley not for the unexperienced goat person. She likes to fly. She can clear a livestock gate no problem. No climb fence, Pththh! She is so springy, she can leap up and change directions in the air. She moves more like a horse with fancy footwork. I have never seen anything like it.


----------



## Gumtree (Aug 15, 2009)

Realfoodmama said:


> I'm curious why the coat indicates a worm problem?
> 
> And I assume you mean internal, not external parasites, yes?
> 
> I have a goat who's coat looks similar and to be honest I assumed it was normal for her, but now I am thinking it might be a symptom of worms?


I can't give the technical reasons lol

but a rough coat seems to indicate worms in a lot of animals eg cats/dogs
and yes internal parasites


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

She should get a good deworming, Valbazen works great and not to costly if you get it from Jeffers. I would also see if you can collect some "goat berries" and send them into the vet, it shouldn't be to much either and they can determine if she has a cocci issue going on as well. ALSO, you probably should give her a BoSe shot and copper bolus. Unless you have recently done that. I have seen a few goats come out of winter like that and it takes some extra stuff to get them in good health. Make sure she has available baking soda, good minerals, quality hay, and fresh water and she should start looking better after a few weeks.


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Before you deworm her PLEASE get a fecal on her to see if that is EVEN the problem. Also, what type you would be treating for.

I would say it is a Cooper def. she needs some cooper and a good mineral. 

I hate to say it but Deworming is not always the answer. I had several goats that were starting to look a little rough like that, they do NOT have a worm problem at all, but I cooper bolus them and they look GREAT. My goats get a good mineral, but sometimes they just need that extra cooper.


----------



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Where she came from they said the people had no minerals for her, so I know that has to be part of it. Supposedly, she had only water and alfalfa hay.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

These things are tricky.. Rough coats can be mineral deficiencies, internal parasites, external parasites, poor nutrition, gestationally-related.....all kinds of stuff.

Some folks say black oil sunflower seeds make a huge difference, ostensibly because they contain a lot of fat.. So, you feed BOSS and their coat improves...must be the fat, right?

Well, BOSS also contains a lot of selenium! Hmm...

Some folks say it's internal parasites, so they worm...maybe with ivermectin. After worming, the coat improves.. Must have been internal parasites, right?

Well, ivermectin also kills external parasites! Hmm..

Some folks say it's copper deficiency, so they copper bolus and the coat improves.. Must have been copper deficient, right?

Well, copper bolusing also kills barberpole worms! Hmm....

Round and round she goes.. I'd say treat for internal parasites, external parasites, mineral deficiency, and gear nutrition toward coat improvement with supplemental BOSS and make sure she's got access to high quality loose mineral, free choice (and, yeah...ditch the salt); if you're in a selenium deficient area, give Bo-Se; if the goat never had good mineral before, go ahead and copper bolus; if you suspect worms and you gotta worm anyway, do it with ivermectin to get externals too.

Sometimes you just gotta throw a bunch of ...stuff... at the wall and see what sticks.

ETA: most of my herd looks like CRAP right now, despite the fact that they have excellent mineral, are watched closely for internal parasites, etc.. Though I think I may have a little *external* parasite situation brewing, I can also look at the does who didn't get bred versus the does who did, and the difference is amazing.. I can also look at the jet-black, shiny, smooth-as-silk babies and know that MUCH of the problem stems from mama goats imparting every molecule of fat and mineral they have to ensure their babies come out healthy and hardy.


----------



## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I have one doe whose coat looks like that at the end of every winter. She isn't copper deficient and doesn't have worms or any other parasites. I used to fret about it, now she gets a spring bath, a nice short summer clip and her hair grows back all nice and glossy. It's not always something wrong. Just saying....


----------



## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

I think you should worm her with Ivermectin as cmjustO said.

Give her lots of loose minerals

Use BOSS

Feed her some grain

She should be back to lookin good in no time.


----------



## zoomom (Feb 27, 2010)

My goats looked great coming out of winter, but i noticed yesterday their coats looked a bit rough. I have wormed them twice since February (have to check barn calendar to see exact dates) and they get loose minerals -which they have been gobbling down, esp during the past month. (so maybe there is some deficiency)

Is is a pregnancy thing?

Is there anything to give them other than root killer (copper sulfate) or a copper bolus (which i am not comfortable with, since the article indicated it was made for larger animals) - Maybe some kind of liquid? 

Is is definitely copper, or maybe something else - would wheat germ oil help?

I am not giving them BOSS. I was for a while in February, but they appeared to avoid them, so i stopped. I can try again. Their tastes are changing as the pregnancy continues. (btdt - had an odd liver craving with one kid - made everyone in my family sick - since then cannot touch the stuff)

They get free choice timothy, fresh grass, Blue Seal Sunshine Plus pellets mixed with goat sweet feed (2:1), goat loose minerals and baking soda free choice - am i forgetting anything?


----------



## MiGoat (Apr 21, 2010)

The root killer is just the easy way for us to get copper sulfate. You can get copper sulfate elsewhere to feed them too. You can mix the copper sulfate to make a 1% solution.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Copper bolus is MUCH safer than copper sulfate, as it's copper oxide. Copper oxide has practically zero bioavailability. I personally know goat people who bolus EVERYTHING with an entire 12.5g Copasure capsule once a year -- does, bucks, *and kids*. If they're big enough to swallow a capsule the size of a grown man's thumb, they get an entire Copasure bolus.

I've bolused in the past, dosing at around 1g/22lbs. I'm planning to bolus will again soon..

Still, I would **never, ever** drench with copper sulfate.

But that's just me.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

This is a very touchy subject for me, I lost a doe a year ago as well as had to treat for poisoning ASAP when I used the Acidified Copper Sulfate packaged for animal use as a drench.... bolusing scares me too so I switched minerals and am anxiously waiting to see a difference in my black goats, my 6 year old pygmy buck's haircoat is the worst I have ever seen.

Also, just wanted to add that if you do use Ivermectin to worm them and you also want to erradicate any external parasites you must inject it to have it do so...using it orally will get rid of internal but not external.


----------



## zoomom (Feb 27, 2010)

btw, i am feeding the TSC goat minerals made by Manna Pro. I have heard people talk about other brands - i noticed Golden Blend has more copper than Manna Pro, but SweetLix Meat Maker has the most. Should I switch minerals? Is one better than the other (esp while they are pregnant and eating for at least 2, and more likely 3 or more.)

Regarding external parasites. I have noticed the goats biting at their sides - but don't see any parasites when i comb thru their fur - i almost wonder if they are biting at the disturbances from the babies - it's not constant, just every now and then. And only two of them (the biggest ones) Instead of injecting (i am NOT a big fan of needles and will avoid it if i can) can Eprinex be used externally on goats? I have used it on poultry to get rid of feather mites - its the stuff they give to cows, but people on the poultry board recommended it externally - you put it on the back of the neck, like you would with Advantage on dogs/cats.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

liz said:


> This is a very touchy subject for me, I lost a doe a year ago as well as had to treat for poisoning ASAP when I used the Acidified Copper Sulfate packaged for animal use as a drench.... bolusing scares me too so I switched minerals and am anxiously waiting to see a difference in my black goats, my 6 year old pygmy buck's haircoat is the worst I have ever seen.


FWIW, people bolus *sheep* with Copsure for barberpole worms without too much trouble.. Google it...Copasure really is that "crappy" in terms of bioavailability.. lol

I'll say this, too.. I have my minerals blended according to some research done at two local universities. Before switching to their mineral, I'd done just enough research to come to the conclusion that any mineral which contained copper oxide was garbage.. So, I asked the plant manager if they used copper oxide or copper sulfate in their mineral blends.

He laughed.

Then he said "There isn't a bag of copper oxide *in this building.*" In other words, it's so crappy it's not even worth keeping.. That told me something.

Frankly, I don't actually think bolusing at 1g/22lbs does enough to address copper deficiencies.. I think the dosage should be higher..

Just me, though. 

Really, really sorry you lost your doe. 



> Also, just wanted to add that if you do use Ivermectin to worm them and you also want to erradicate any external parasites you must inject it to have it do so...using it orally will get rid of internal but not external.


I know plenty of folks who drench with ivomec injectable for lice. Mites are probably a different story...if I'm treating for mites, I inject it. Could be a dosage thing, too...we go about 1ml/25lbs of goat when we dose orally, or about 3ml/100lbs when we inject.

My earlier advice to use ivermectin injectable as a drench had more to do with the fact that I was sorta looking to a 2-birds/1-stone treatment, as my experience has been that rough coated goats with suspected lice issues treated with ivomec tend to recover their coats better than those treated with, say, doramectin injectable or even cydectin..

Just my experience, though..


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Zoomom -- if you suspect lice and want a pour on, I'd definitely recommend something like CyLence before I'd recommend a pour-on ivermectin product. Folks have used CyLence enough on goats that I trust it...no problems so far. 

I have, however, heard of and personally witnessed problems resulting from the use of pour-on dewormers in goats. I've actually *seen* goats at a couple of different locations with hide and hair slipping off their backs from other pour-on lice treatments. Not great. 

CyLence works, though, and it's generally cheaper than those products. About $20/pint from Jeffers, I think, and you only use a few ML at a time.


----------



## MrKamir (Nov 2, 2009)

We bought a buck around January this year and when we brought him home we noticed his coat was a little rough. Lady who sold him to us swore she wormed her goats often. We should of gone with our gut feeling and wormed him before we let him in the pen with our other buck. With it being winter, we weren't too worried about worms. Two months later, our investment died. We noticed our other buck was getting a rough coat when that happened and we decided to worm the whole herd. Now the our buck has slicked down and looks great. Now we are more careful about new buys.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

We've bought in a total of 5 since we started with our initial 3 does several years ago. 

Of the 5, three have been troublesome. :/

It's probably best if "new hires" get quarantined with a low-value sentinel wether, vaccinated, dewormed, deloused, de-mited, and blood-tested for CAE/CL/Johne's, etc. And then if the sentinel is still OK after a few months, the new goat is probably OK too.

I know, I know...not very practical. lol


----------



## Plumbago (Jan 21, 2008)

Goats whose coats are staring or look rough and fluffy are nearly always short on copper. 
If examin closely a little curl can be seen at the end. I would say my the photos that this is your problem - add seaweed meal, sunflower seeds and copper....
Dark coloured goats are known to need more copper than light coloured coats, another sure sign in black coloured animals, a red to rusty sheen on the coat is due to a lack of copper.
Cod Liver oil does have copper in it, maybe a dose of that once a week. That would be safe and quick -- I have done this and it does cause the loose stools but soon corrects itself.
Copper sulphate should only be fed to animals never copper carbonate as it is nearly twice as strong as copper sulphate.
Be careful with copper sulphate as it can be toxic and should only be given at a rate of 3grams between 40 goats per DAY. I personally mix it in the water that soaks whole barley and then mixed as a grain feed with oaten chaff, lucern chaff, sunflower seeds, pellets etc and fed out. 
Copper is safe if it is fed in conjunction with DOLOMITE mixed in the feed.
Feeding seaweed meal ad lib or in their mix will help as seaweed meal contain all minerals in natural form.


----------



## Plumbago (Jan 21, 2008)

Reading back on this .. I would never drench with copper ... shivering at the thought -- for the last five years my goats get the copper as mentioned in last posting ...they are a picture of health --have no problems healthwise..
Whole barley soaked overnight in a bucket of water, added the copper powder - and apple cider vinegar.
Next day when the water has been absorbed into the barley - a portion is added to Oaten chaff, lucerne chaff, pellets, sunflower seeds, bran, crushed maize, seaweed meal, and dolomite and sometimes (not always) chopped apple and carrots. This is fed out individually to each goat. 
The barley that had been soaked in the water keeps for nearly a week and I just use it when making up the mix.


----------



## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

Here we use BOSS and have no problem, at times aloe vera juice in water or min shot has worked for others that I know. I also have used and do synergize down the back and that has brought back some great coats if it is a bug issue. Hope that helps...


----------



## zoomom (Feb 27, 2010)

Plumbago said:


> Goats whose coats are staring or look rough and fluffy are nearly always short on copper.
> If examin closely a little curl can be seen at the end. I would say my the photos that this is your problem - add seaweed meal, sunflower seeds and copper....
> Dark coloured goats are known to need more copper than light coloured coats, another sure sign in black coloured animals, a red to rusty sheen on the coat is due to a lack of copper.
> Cod Liver oil does have copper in it, maybe a dose of that once a week. That would be safe and quick -- I have done this and it does cause the loose stools but soon corrects itself.
> ...


Where do i get the seaweed meal and dolomite? (don't think i've seen it at TSC) Where do I get the copper sulfate (or are you talking about the root killer crystals)? I only have 3 goats, and 3 gm per 40 goats per day would be hard to cut down. I noticed at the fish store tonight they had a 1.25% solution of copper sulfate for the marine aquariums. Maybe I could use that? There must be something commercially made for this if copper deficiency is such a big problem for goats.

Getting back to my earlier question - is Manna Pro Goat Minerals okay, or should i switch to another brand - SweetLix Meat Maker (which has highest copper out of the three) or Golden Blend?


----------



## Plumbago (Jan 21, 2008)

I am in Aussie -- copper sulfate we get from animal feed stores (livestock) -- blue crystal type powder ...if you can't get it, maybe a chemist will order it in or do a search online --- must be able to buy it, make sure you are buying the right product ... another thought - over here we get blocks to put in water troughs to kill the algae they are high in copper so that may help as well. 
I really think I would put the copper in the water and feed to them added in their mix to get their coats and health back, the apple cider vinegar will do no harm either - corrects the PH balance in their bodies and they say natural long term worming additive.
Three goats - should get 5grams of copper in total, per head each week, so for the 3, equals 15 grams of copper mixed in water & add to feed each week - :Seaweed meal well same from livestock feed stores...search internet for suppliers in yr neck of the woods.
Hope this helps....I have seen it advertised in american sites --- so must be available.
Good luck,, :hi5:


----------



## zoomom (Feb 27, 2010)

I am reluctant to start assuming they are deficient in copper without any type of analysis, b/c during my research I found out you can have copper toxicity also. Their coats just started looking a bit rough, and if they ARE deficient in copper (or something else) I am thinking maybe i should change mineral mixes and see if that helps.

I was also thinking that if it is a copper deficiency, if i fed them food naturally high in copper, it couldn't hurt. I found this online










I gave them the BOSS today, and two of them ate them (reluctantly, but they realized i wasn't giving them any of their favorite grain so they might as well eat the BOSS), the other one just gave me a 'look' and walked away. I will keep trying, and also give them some of the soaked barley. Can i give them sesame seeds? Or maybe sesame oil?

I just found this post http://thegoatspot.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=11708

I would consider bolusing with marshmallows - I already know they love them b/c my 2 yo niece was feeding them to the goats while everyone was busy roasting them last weekend :laugh:


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

WHOA. Hold up a minute, Plumbago...you're about to kill someone's goats.

If 40 head get 3g/day, then 3 head would get 0.075 that amount... That's 0.225g. Multiply that out by a week and you get 1.575g per week.

You're too high by a factor of **10**.



zoomom said:


> There must be something commercially made for this if copper deficiency is such a big problem for goats.


They don't make much of anything for goats, specifically, but there is a product designed to correct copper deficiency in cattle -- Copasure copper boluses.

I'd go that route before going with copper sulfate.. Like I said, I know someone who had "copper deficient" goats and was treating with copper sulfate in the water.. It dragged on and on until finally she had one tested and it was NEAR TOXIC on blood copper levels.

Copper isn't to be screwed around with.. If you want to do something for a very acute copper deficiency, copper bolus.

Something else I haven't seen mentioned here is Red Cell.. I've heard of a lot of goats improving pretty quickly after a week's worth of Red Cell dosed at about 15ml/day.. Might be worth a shot, and -- in my opinion -- it's safer than dosing with copper sulfate.


----------



## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

Copper sulfate goes into the goats system very quickly, too quickly in my opinion and that is what makes it unsafe if the dose is not right on. Copper bolusing is safer and releases slowly.


----------



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

A little birdy told me that she feeds her show goats black oil sunflower seeds in their feed. And after seeing zoomom's post, I can see part of why her goats look so nice. I am trying that, as well as giving minerals. Not sure the ratio yet, as I am still experimenting. But the goats seem to like them pretty good.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Black oil sunflower seeds are about 50% fat....it's kinda like giving your dog bacon grease. lol

One thing to keep in mind with BOSS is that they're way, way off in their Ca ratio.. I did some calculations by weight once, a long time ago, and figured out that it wouldn't take much of it to throw a properly balanced goat feed off significantly. I'll have to revisit that at some point...

Anyway, I'd advise caution in feeding BOSS to males...especially young males or wethers. Not such a problem in does, of course.. Our does are getting about a handful of boss to a pound of grain.. Haven't noticed a whole lot of difference so far -- some, just not OMGWOW! lol -- but then again, I wasn't expecting miracles or anything.


----------



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

LOL. Okay, still learning the lingo after all this time. BOSS = Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. I wish people would be more open about the lingo sometimes. I still feel like such a noob.


----------

