# Unbred, yearling doe with hard bag--CAE?



## lottieslady (Apr 22, 2013)

I am incredibly new to the goat world, but was almost an instant addict--but am probably making huge mistakes. In January, I got a Nubian doeling who hit her year mark about a month ago. I was playing with all of my goats today and went to feel her utters (trying to get her used to the idea as the plan was to breed her this fall) and they felt abnormally big and hard. I had my husband look and he said she acted like it was painful for him to touch them. Now I am worried that I purchased a goat with CAE. I haven't had her tested (this development is only a few minutes old and it is Sunday), but I am particularly concerned because false negatives are so common with CAE testing--how do I know I can trust anything but a positive. Are there other possible causes for a hard/painful bag? If is is CAE what options do I have and can she infect the rest of my goats? I really enjoy her as she is quite sweet, but I don't know if I can afford to keep a goat that I can't breed/milk. Any advice is greatly appreciated. TIA!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

First - is there any chance that this doe is bred or has kidded prior to you acquiring her? If not, I'm thinking what you are feeling is her belly. At a year old her udder should be undeveloped and up against her belly. Yes, there are other things that can cause a hard/painful udder - mastitis being one of them. I don't believe it is possible to have mastitis without having kidded at least once, but I could be wrong on that. 

2nd question - is this doe overly conditioned? If she is too fat you could be feeling fat deposits in her udder. If that is the case I would urge you to cut back on her feed because fat deposits in the udder will interfere with her milking ability. Feel along her spine with your fingertips. If you cannot feel the vertebrae in her spine she is too fat. The reference to the doe acting like it was painful could very well simply be her reluctance to have her udder handled. 

As far as CAE is concerned, it is my understanding that there are a couple of different tests for CAE and it is only one (can't think what it's called at the moment) that gives a lot of false positives. That is something you need to talk to your vet about. As for options for a CAE positive doe, I think I would wait to cross that bridge until I knew I had one. Don't borrow trouble! I hope this helps and good luck with your doe.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

A virgin doe can get mastitis actually. You could just be feeling normal gland tissue developing though. Even goats go through puberty and start developing breasts.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Can you get us a picture?


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## lottieslady (Apr 22, 2013)

Correction to my original post and indication of how new I am at this--Her udders are a normal size--very small just like my alpine doe that is the same age and also a virgin. There is no way I am mistaking her bag for her stomach--there is a significant drop and it is a little bigger than a softball. When I feel my Alpine, her bag and udders are at about the same level as her stomach but softer/more fleshy. I suppose fat is a possibility--she may be overweight as I have read this is common in does that are held over. 

I do wonder about this being puberty for her although I can't find a lot of info on that--of course, not many people get a nubian and don't bread her in the first year.

I'll try for a picture, but it may not be possible until my husband gets home.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like you have normal growth going on there...they can get a kind of fatty bag and if she is in heat she might be tender...some goat do not like their udder touched and could jump and act like you hurt them lol..we touch ours daily and often to get them used to be handled..
if you plan on testing do it at least twice...I read once that no negative is negative until you have two negatives lol..basically get it backed up...negative or positive..for your own peace of mind..you want to send the blood samples to a lab that uses the elisa test


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## lottieslady (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks happybleats. She doesn't display any other signs of CAE--I like to jump to the worst possible scenario first, then I am rarely disappointed . I will likely test before I breed both of my older does this fall. Btw--I finally have the terminology right--udders enlarged and firm, teats small. From behind she looks like a typical dry dairy goat--I just didn't realize udders could/would develop unless she was in milk or at least pregnant. But you are saying this is normal?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> udders enlarged and firm, teats small. From behind she looks like a typical dry dairy goat--I just didn't realize udders could/would develop unless she was in milk or at least pregnant


A picture would help us see what you are seeing..a virgin Udder can get a bit fatty especially if she is on the heavy side and going through hormone changes..they usually are not hard however..so when you say "firm" is that "hard" or just not squishy but pliable?


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## lottieslady (Apr 22, 2013)

Not sure this picture will help--all you can really see is that she is hairy. Centered right between her teats, she has a mass about the size of a lemon--softball was an exaggeration--I was able to get a really good feel a little while ago. I can feel a line in the mass right in the center that goes from front to back. The skin is loose around it, but I would say the mass is pretty firm like a ripe-overripe lemon as well. It is tight against her body--not sagging. As for it being painful--I didn't get that impression--she just acted annoyed that I was touching her in an unfamiliar way.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

As long as she is acting normal, no sign of pain or discomfort, no fever ect.. I would keep an eye on it to be sure it doesn't get bigger...or begin to change...


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## AnnaK (Jun 19, 2013)

I have a doeling who is a yr and a half old. She came from a cae free closed herd. My only other doe is cae negative. She has never been bred. I don't have a buck so she could not be pregnant. Her udder has slowly been growing and is about the size of a large grapefruit. When I "milk" her, I can get out little streams of clear, watery liquid. She does not have a fever and her udder is not hot or sore....just huge and rock hard....any clues??? Please help!!!


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## Toggies (Feb 23, 2016)

I have just had my 6 year old unbred doe to the vet and diagnosed with acute mastitis. She is a pet and she and her sisters have never been near a buck. So, to set the record straight, unbred does (mine is a purebred Toggenberg) can get mastitis. Do NOT procrastinate in seeking a vet's help. I am so glad I took her in today -- lots of bloody milk in her udder. I have to milk her out 3 times a day, and keep administering antiobiotics by injection for 7 days, as well as antibiotic salve in her teats for three days. This is not a condition to fool around with.


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