# Sweetwaterfarms.... help my goat won’t get pregnant.



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

@Sweetwaterfarms... sent me this message in a pm.... hopefully someone can help.

My two nannies (Elly the Dwarf Nigerian and Nannybelle the Nubian) are the ones having problems. I think Elly is 3 years old and Nannybelle is four years old. I had them for about a year and a half now and during that time I've only seen them go into heat twice. That why I was so sure they were pregnant. When I got them they were supposed to be bred, but five months later no babies came, so a couple of months later we decided to recues a buck. His name is Loki and I think he's around two or three but I can't be sure. When we brought him in with the girls they went into heat but I thought it was just a false heat because the next month I saw Elly go into heat again. That was the only time I've seen them go into heat.
I thought he bred them because I didn't see them come back into heat. I left him in with the girls because he's not a mean or aggressive buck. But again... Five months and then seven months later nothing happened. So now I'm at a cross roads.

If y'all have any experience or advice on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Were they bought from the same place?


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Were they bought from the same place?


The does were.... I recused my buck from the local animal shelter.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Welcome to the forum!
Are you sure the buck has not been neutered? Here the animal shelter neuters all animals that get adopted out.


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> Are you sure the buck has not been neutered? Here the animal shelter neuters all animals that get adopted out.


Thanks I'm glad to be here. He wasn't neutered. In my area a ton of animals were abandoned and left on the streets because of hurricane Michael. The animal shelter was so overcrowded they didn't have room for him and they gave him to us.
I am worried he might have a zinc deficiency. I just order some Icelandic Kelp to help. But I don't know if he's the problem or if the girls are.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can you post pictures of the goats? Do you supplement with minerals?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> Thanks I'm glad to be here. He wasn't neutered. In my area a ton of animals were abandoned and left on the streets because of hurricane Michael. The animal shelter was so overcrowded they didn't have room for him and they gave him to us.
> I am worried he might have a zinc deficiency. I just order some Icelandic Kelp to help. But I don't know if he's the problem or if the girls are.


@Dwarf Dad has a point! If he has testicles.... he could have been burdizzo castrated... the testicles are still there with that. The cords are crushed.

How and what do you feed and supplement your goats? Ex.... feed, hay, mineral..... stuff like that. . Oops karen already asked that. Sorry. And yes pics might help as well! People here can tell a lot by pics. And pics of the bucks testicles might help too... not sure.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No even if burdizzoed the testicles would have been shriveled and the body absorbed them by now. IMO something is up with the does. If they are only cycling once maybe twice a year and then no more that is not a normal. Either they are not cycling right or they are in fact settling and then aborting. They could be cystic or have a infection, I really won’t think someone had THAT bad of luck though so I would put money on minerals. The three most important minerals for reproduction is copper, selenium, and zinc, selenium being the most common issue. Can you post pictures of your does so we can take a look if any mineral deficiency symptom pops out at us?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> No even if burdizzoed the testicles would have been shriveled and the body absorbed them by now. IMO something is up with the does. If they are only cycling once maybe twice a year and then no more that is not a normal. Either they are not cycling right or they are in fact settling and then aborting. They could be cystic or have a infection, I really won't think someone had THAT bad of luck though so I would put money on minerals. The three most important minerals for reproduction is copper, selenium, and zinc, selenium being the most common issue. Can you post pictures of your does so we can take a look if any mineral deficiency symptom pops out at us?


That is good to know on the burdizzo! I thought the beans just stayed and got a bit less plump lookin with that way. I did not realize that they shriveled. Now i know not to say that anymore. . Yay i learned a thing today! :coolmoves::bighug:Thank you darlin.


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> He wasn't neutered. In my area a ton of animals were abandoned and left on the streets because of hurricane Michael. The animal shelter was so o





Sfgwife said:


> @Dwarf Dad has a point! If he has testicles.... he could have been burdizzo castrated... the testicles are still there with that. The cords are crushed.
> 
> How and what do you feed and supplement your goats? Ex.... feed, hay, mineral..... stuff like that. . Oops karen already asked that. Sorry. And yes pics might help as well! People here can tell a lot by pics. And pics of the bucks testicles might help too... not sure.


Wow I didn't know that. They have a huge passure in the backyard with lots of grass and trees and they get what ever left overs we get from the garden. I use hay in the winter and I've been using Black oil Sunflower Seed and the occasional carrot for treats.
I just bought a new mineral block and I'm building a new feeder to give them the option between the
loose minerals or the block. They normally don't get grain unless it's cold out. But I have been giving them a little everyday to boost the nutrients in their system.
Here's the pictures of Loki


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> Wow I didn't know that. They have a huge passure in the backyard with lots of grass and trees and they get what ever left overs we get from the garden. I use hay in the winter and I've been using Black oil Sunflower Seed and the occasional carrot for treats.
> I just bought a new mineral block and I'm building a new feeder to give them the option between the
> loose minerals or the block. They normally don't get grain unless it's cold out. But I have been giving them a little everyday to boost the nutrients in their system.
> Here's the pictures of Loki
> ...


I was wrong on the burdizzo! Jessica said the testicles do shrivel and absorb into the body. Sorry i misspoke hon.

Can you get full side view pics of the ones you are talkin about not just the buck. Those will be of more help.

Do you ever give copper, BoSe or selenium/vit e gel, zinc or replamin?


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> I was wrong on the burdizzo! Jessica said the testicles do shrivel and absorb into the body. Sorry i misspoke hon.
> 
> Can you get full side view pics of the ones you are talkin about not just the buck. Those will be of more help.
> 
> Do you ever give copper, BoSe or selenium/vit e gel, zinc or replamin?


No... Here some picks of the girls... Nannybelle is a bit wet because she was standing out in the rain eating instead of going into the barn. I'll get some more photos of her when she's dry.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It takes awhile for them to leave, which is why i stopped using that way. By the time you know for sure if one side took you could possibly have a one or two testicle dude running around causing issues. With out bull calf’s, on the larger size, it took about 2-3ish months (it’s been a few years) for them to go away so 7 months they should be pretty much gone. That guy looks very healthy in that department  
ok nannybelle (LOVE the name by the way) looks like she could use some selenium. If you look at her back ankles/ pasterns they look weak. That COULD simply be genetics or if her hooves are over grown, that can cause that. I would get the loose minerals out for them. Honestly though I’m a bit bias about selenium because I have battled deficiency so I know I’m bad about jumping on the selenium need wagon so I’m going to just point that out and let someone else talk about minerals  when you get another minute though get a shot of their back sides with their tails in the picture. If they have fish tails that means copper and if they flop to the side that means they really need selenium.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Cobalt. Along with all the other minerals mentioned, Cobalt.

Florida is notorious for being deficient in cobalt and for a VERY long time could only support domesticated ruminant in small isolated areas.

You do need all the others mentioned, too, because not having other minerals will prevent cobalt from being properly absorbed. I recommend Replamin. I don't think this is the bucks problem. I think it is the does', who were supposed to be bred in the first place.

Replamin through the Summer, for all of them.

AND loose minerals. AND a cobalt block if you can find it.


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Cobalt. Along with all the other minerals mentioned, Cobalt.
> 
> Florida is notorious for being deficient in cobalt and for a VERY long time could only support domesticated ruminant in small isolated areas.
> 
> ...


Will do


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> It takes awhile for them to leave, which is why i stopped using that way. By the time you know for sure if one side took you could possibly have a one or two testicle dude running around causing issues. With out bull calf's, on the larger size, it took about 2-3ish months (it's been a few years) for them to go away so 7 months they should be pretty much gone. That guy looks very healthy in that department
> ok nannybelle (LOVE the name by the way) looks like she could use some selenium. If you look at her back ankles/ pasterns they look weak. That COULD simply be genetics or if her hooves are over grown, that can cause that. I would get the loose minerals out for them. Honestly though I'm a bit bias about selenium because I have battled deficiency so I know I'm bad about jumping on the selenium need wagon so I'm going to just point that out and let someone else talk about minerals  when you get another minute though get a shot of their back sides with their tails in the picture. If they have fish tails that means copper and if they flop to the side that means they really need selenium.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Selenium. There is selenium in the Replamin and there should be selenium in the loose mineral.


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Selenium. There is selenium in the Replamin and there should be selenium in the loose mineral.


 this is the loose minerals I have now. 
View attachment 159577


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm familiar with this. Although called a mineral mix, it is in fact a salt with some minerals. I would keep this, but find a true mineral mix that has a low level of salt.

They can't eat enough of this because of the high salt level. So you also need a mineral mix. Do you have a TSC near you?

The easiest good mineral mix to find is something called Purina Wind and Rain, Storm, and many TSCs carry it. Because this salt has a good level of cobalt, and the Replamin that I hope you will get also has a good level of cobalt, you don't have to buy a cobalt block.

Don't get me wrong, this is a good salt and I do think it will help you, but not all by itself.

Here is the Purina that may be easy for you to find.








https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-wind-rain-storm-all-season-75-complete?cm_vc=-10005
If you tell us what you have around you, we can help you choose. Like if you have a Southern States, there are a couple cattle minerals there that are good. Another one that I personally really like is Cargill's Onyx. I'm not sure if you have a store that carries Nutrena products, but if you do, go in and ask for Cargill's Right Now Onyx. Sweetlix MeatMaker is another truly good one.

Here is the Guaranteed Analysis of the Purina Wind and Rain, Storm.
*Guaranteed Analysis*
*MINERAL / VITAMIN LEVEL*
Calcium (Ca), min.................. 14.00% 
Ca, max................................ 16.00% 
Phosphorus (P), min..................7.50% 
Salt (NaCl), min..................... 19.00% 
Salt (NaCl), max.................... 21.00% 
Magnesium (Mg), min................1.00%
Potassium (K), min ...................1.00% 
Zinc (Zn), min....................3,600 PPM 
Manganese (Mn), min..........3,600 PPM
Copper (Cu), min ...............1,200 PPM 
Cobalt (Co), min.....................12 PPM 
Iodine (I), min........................60 PPM 
Selenium (Se), min..................27 PPM 
Vitamin A, min...............300,000 IU/LB 
Vitamin D, min................30,000 IU/LB 
Vitamin E, min.....................300 IU/LB

There are really good mineral threads here at TGS, too.
@Jessica84 @healthyishappy Do you have any other ideas? I know both of you like the above mineral... @NigerianDwarfOwner707 I know you use that salt. Comments?


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I agree it may not be just him, but I dont like the cerconference/size of his nuts, at 2 or 3 he should be alot bigger around... (my buck at 3 months)







granted Nubians have long legs, udders and nuts to mach, but they dont look big and plump to me, they dont fill the scrotum like they should, it look very loose (around the lower half, not upper), like they have shriveled some, maybe he just needs lots of groceries to plump out? I have never had a buck with nuts that where not big and full


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

All 3 are needing groceries, I agree.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Kinda like this? . This is my mini nubian at four and a half months. My grown bucks are similar to slick's beans just bigger. They are not quite as plump around as yours but they hang down more than your guys do. That might be why they look different to you? Also @Sweetwaterfarms your guy looks like he also needs selenium as well. Lookin closer at the pic for his beans i see his pasterns seem low in the pic.

Sometimes i chuckle at the conversations we have on here.... just cause a "normal" person would come in thinkin we were allllll nuts in here. Hahahaha.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I took into consideration the need for selenium (and everything, really) in my strong recommendation for Replamin. I'm trying to keep this simple and not overwhelm.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Sfgwife Your knowledge can be... formidable. As are your boys' balls. I'm learning to lead gently. I mess up sometimes, but I'm getting better, I think. :shrug:


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I took into consideration the need for selenium (and everything, really) in my strong recommendation for Replamin. I'm trying to keep this simple and not overwhelm.


I'm purchasing some Replamin for them. And Thank you for the recommendations of what to buy.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> I'm purchasing some Replamin for them. And Thank you for the recommendations of what to buy.


If EVER you have mineral questions maria is the one to go to. She loves her some mineral. . When my bucks came they looks scraggly bad... i read and read and asked questions. She helped me SO much with mineral! To look at my boys now you would not think them the same boys that came here last fall.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

mariarose said:


> @Sfgwife Your knowledge can be... formidable. As are your boys' balls. I'm learning to lead gently. I mess up sometimes, but I'm getting better, I think. :shrug:


I don't mean to be scary. . Maybe i need take a page out of you book and learn to be more gentle? Or.. learn to use this filter in my brain to mouth that seems to be gone awry?


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

A couple a months ago I did see Elly loose hair on her nose. I thought it was just because she would rub her face up against the fence. So I tide her up in the woods (so we could clear the brush back there) and she seemed fine after that. Her hair grew back so I never really thought about it. Was that a copper deficiency?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It was more likely to be a zinc deficiency that was helped by the minerals being brought up from the earth in a very bio available form by the shrubs and brush.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sfgwife said:


> I don't mean to be scary. . Maybe i need take a page out of you book and learn to be more gentle? Or.. learn to use this filter in my brain to mouth that seems to be gone awry?


No. I need you just the way you are!


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

I do plan on buying a buck in the near future from my neighbor (who is a reputable goat breeder) because Loki has hard time mounting my Nubian. But I really want him for my Nigerians. I just bought a doe who's in milk. This was her second freshening. She's been in milk for about nine days and we love her. I'm worried she'll be like the others and won't get pregnant. But I am hopeful.
Thank you guys for the advice. 
It's REALLY appreciated.:ty:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, before you breed, get them in better shape. They'll settle (become pregnant) and carry to term better if they have a little bit more meat on them and a little bit more minerals in them.


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## Sweetwaterfarms (Jul 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Well, before you breed, get them in better shape. They'll settle (become pregnant) and carry to term better if they have a little bit more meat on them and a little bit more minerals in them.


Will do


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> I do plan on buying a buck in the near future from my neighbor (who is a reputable goat breeder) because Loki has hard time mounting my Nubian. But I really want him for my Nigerians. I just bought a doe who's in milk. This was her second freshening. She's been in milk for about nine days and we love her. I'm worried she'll be like the others and won't get pregnant. But I am hopeful.
> Thank you guys for the advice.
> It's REALLY appreciated.:ty:


Ask as many questions and as often as you need! There is NO dumb question here.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Sweetwaterfarms said:


> I do plan on buying a buck in the near future from my neighbor (who is a reputable goat breeder) because Loki has hard time mounting my Nubian. But I really want him for my Nigerians. I just bought a doe who's in milk. This was her second freshening. She's been in milk for about nine days and we love her. I'm worried she'll be like the others and won't get pregnant. But I am hopeful.
> Thank you guys for the advice.
> It's REALLY appreciated.:ty:


Some people help the smaller bucks by digging a hole for the doe, or building a small platform for the buck. Then helping the animals to use the appliance.


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## Crazy Little Goat (Dec 30, 2017)

I have one doe that won't breed, as well. She never scores low on the famacha scale, best feet of my herd, and up to date on copper bolus. Not fat or scrawny either.

Thoughts?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

A couple of ideas spring to mind...

She might need more cobalt. A blue cobalt salt block can help if this is a problem.

She might be a freemartin. Was she a twin, and was her twin a male? If she is a freemartin (happens sometimes when the doeling is exposed to male hormones in utero) then she is sterile.

She might actually be an intersex goat without a uterus and complete vagina and with interior testes. This is often called a hermaphrodite, but it isn't really. True hermaphrodites are very rare, but intersex goats aren't that rare. intersex goats can't ever breed. They don't have the equipment.

Can we get another picture, this time a close up of her vulva area, and tell us if her teats are especially tiny?


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## Crazy Little Goat (Dec 30, 2017)

I don't think her teats are abnormally small for a virgin. Here's a couple pictures of her hooha though.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nothing stands out in that. Not to me anyway.

Do you have access to a cobalt block?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Is this a new doe to you? Have you every observed her in heat? Has she ever been interested in your buck? Any history of pinkeye? Low selenium levels can cause breeding issues, also cystic ovaries. You may want to consult a vet on this one, many things can cause a doe not to get pregnant. There are many kiddings with a buck and doe - free martins in general are a concern in cows, not goats. This would not be my first thought with her.


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## Crazy Little Goat (Dec 30, 2017)

goatblessings said:


> Is this a new doe to you? Have you every observed her in heat? Has she ever been interested in your buck? Any history of pinkeye? Low selenium levels can cause breeding issues, also cystic ovaries. You may want to consult a vet on this one, many things can cause a doe not to get pregnant. There are many kiddings with a buck and doe - free martins in general are a concern in cows, not goats. This would not be my first thought with her.


I bought her in the fall of 17 when she was a few months old. So, not new. I know I have selenium deficiency issues, so I added selenium to my feed the last time we ground, and I have a block out for them, which they don't even look at. I have seen the buck mount her and chase her around. I will add that this doe tends to mount the other does when they are heat. I thought that was fairly normal though.

I contacted the breeder and she has agreed to the doe back and give me a weanling this year, if she has any, but my husband thinks that is a bad deal for me.


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## Crazy Little Goat (Dec 30, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Nothing stands out in that. Not to me anyway.
> 
> Do you have access to a cobalt block?


No, I don't have a cobalt block. I've looked around for them, but they are kinda hard to find without ordering. I might give it a try though.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Tractor Supply can get them, (cobalt blocks) just be persistent. Ask if any stores in the area have them and would they bring them to your store.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

My does mount each other when in heat. Thats a pretty common thing. You may need to put her & the buck in a small corral ,fenced area..so you can make sure the connection is made. Sometimes it can look like it is done. When it has not been compleeted. 
Some people tie the doe to a post with a leash so the job can be compleeted. They are close by so no problems.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod:


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I had problems with Letty not getting prego for a wile, then I discovered she was two tall for my buck to reach, I made him a platform to stand on and wola, got kids!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I second the idea of penning her with the buck - for a good 30 days if he is gentle enough with her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep:up:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Have you decided on taking the breeder's trade offer @Sweetwaterfarms ?


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