# Our buck - Sick AGAIN :(



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know what is going on with him.

A couple of weeks ago he got diarrhea, my husband has been doing feed the past 2 months and said he thinks it was the new bag of feed since this happened the day after he started feeding it. One of the twin 2mo boys got it too. Cleared up, we also gave the buck pepto. He still has dried crud on his rear end but seemed to be fine.

I've been commenting on weight loss though, he looks HORRIBLE :? 

Today he is suddenly sick, can hardly walk, balance on the rear end is off. He is so skinny compared to about 2 weeks ago. 

Took his temp and it's 103.8!!!! OMG  Poor baby! he's an early April Boer buck. Hubby will be home in just a moment he can help me give him some banamine.

Eyes look fine, he's just acting really off as far as balance, and has a weak 'baa.'

He browses in the woods, could this be a sign of meningeal? Sorry spelling is off I am trying to hurry and write this so I can get back outside. 
I told hubby to pick up some ivermectin, but knowing him he won't stop he'll come straight home!

Should we give penG as well? 

Thanks for any help! We were just talking yesterday that we need to do something to get his weight back up, he's lost way too much  

Everyone else is just fine. He's the only one sick.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

At this point... with the wobbly hind end, even though his eyes look fine to you, get him some B1 and start him on Pen G....I dose at 1cc per 10lbs, this won't hurt but can help just in the case that he does progress with polio/listeria symptoms.

Get him in a warm, dry area where you will be able to easily treat him...the ivermectin is a good idea too.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

I agree with Liz...hit all avenues just in case... :hug:

so sorry he is sick...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks so much. I greatly appreciate it! I do have penG, will have hubby give that now. Everything I've read doesn't say anything about meningeal causing diarrhea or fever, so I am thinking it's got to be polio/listeria.

I've never had to give B1, how much would I need to give? I'll go pick up some up hopefully the feed store has it.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Oh also how often do I give the penG? and B1?

Feed store has Vit B1-combo, will that be okay?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

You won't be able to get the straight B1(Thiamine) without a prescription BUT you can give Fortified B Complex or B Complex which is likely available at feed stores.....Give a minimum of 12cc of the latter IM works quicker. I was giving my 35lb doeling 12 cc every 6 hours so your boy will likely need a higher dose to get the amount of Thiamine thats in the B Complex.
Give both every 6 hours for a full 24 hours then the Pen can be done 2 x a day...the B can be done every 8-12 hours if you see an improvement in symptoms, if not then you can continue with every 6 hours

If you can get the script for Thiamine...I was dosing my 50lb buck with 2.5cc every 6 hours.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks so much. We weren't able to get to the feed store before they closed  We gave him penG, and put him in a stall for the night, he seemed to feel much better, and ate his grain with anticipation instead of just picking at it which my husband said he's been doing the past few days.
He's got clean water and lots of hay. We put our doe w/twin boys in the stall next to him, plus he can see the other girls in the barn addition through the barn wall. Going to go take his temp about 8pm.

Sure hope he doesn't get worse. He has been alert, and when we get near him he wants to rub all over you, so I take those as good signs LOL

Tomorrow morning when the feed store opens we'll get more penG, B1 complex combo and ivermectin.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

:hug: Do you have any human B1 vitamins? If so, it is better than nothing right now. If you don't, maybe a run to the store is a good call.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

I checked on him about 15 minutes ago, he was laying down, got him up and he wasn't amused, took his temp it's 102.7 we've never taken his temp before today so not sure what it normally is 
He is definitely still off on the backend, and as soon as we were done he was happy so he could lay back down. Everyone wants to sleep, but he wasn't as pushy as he usually is to see if we have treats, etc.

I just called around and NOBODY has any Vit B!!!  Kmart doesn't have it, and Kroger has to order it  
The feed store opens at 7am, so I can get it in the morning. Hopefully he doesn't get any worse tonight.

The feed store said what they have is B1 combo? it's like $12.99 for 2 1/2lbs. So I am assuming it's a powder you disolve in water and then inject? I feel like such a dummy for not knowing this, but we've never had to use anything other than some oral stuff like selenium/vit e stuff.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Straight B1 human tablets were hard for me to find too....I think I ended up getting the bottle I have at Walmart, I couldn't find any at Rite Aid or even at ShopnSave. These are usually 250mg, my goats would spit them out til I crushed them and put the powder in my hand with a tiny bit of feed, they would get every last bit.

The B1 combo is one I've not heard of....oral dosing is better than nothing but injection benfits them much faster.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks Liz, I also thought maybe I can call the vet that I've had fecals done at this past year, and see if there is a way to get a prescription, worth a shot. If not, there are two other feed/horse supply stores I thought I could try 'just in case' for B Complex. If not I'll check out this B Combo. 
We live near a small town, Kroger, Kmart and there is a CVS but they close early so I didn't even call them. Closest Walmart is about 30 minutes away  
I'll check on him before I go to bed. He's not going to like me as I plan to keep him stalled...I don't want him going out into the woods with the others, and possibly getting down and not being able to get back up, worries me  It's supposed to rain in the morning, so hopefully that will keep him calm. He doesn't like to be stalled, but with not feeling well it sure didn't seem to bother him tonight. As long as he can see the others he seemed content.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Check with your vet first. They may have Thiamine in stock. When I asked my vet for some, she said "sure, anyone keeping goats should have that on hand". It's not even expensive. Hope you can fix him up, I'll ray: he gets better. Good luck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks Di I appreciate it  
He seems better this morning, he was hollering before I got through the gate, and giving me that 'are you going to let me out of prison now' look when I peeked over the stall door at him. His bleating is much stronger. I don't know that he ate any hay though, to me it doesn't look like he touched the hay in the hay feeder. But my husband put a pile of different hay in the corner, and can't tell if he spread it out a little or ate some. 
He seems to be standing better too.

One thing I forgot about is the fact he is doing a lot of scratching on his neck with his horns. I've checked to see if maybe he had lice or something, but I didn't see anything, and it's hard to get a REALLY good look because of the winter coat underneath, and that particular area has some reddish hair which makes it even harder to tell. I did check all along his back and didn't see anything, but I did see evidence of dry skin. We treated with permectrin II not too long ago when it was nice out, and I am thinking it caused dry skin. 
Is it normal for a buck to scratch and basically cut the hair with his horns? Not any bald patches, but he's definitely given himself a trim job... I treated everyone for lice, and his hair wasn't like that when we treated him.

Edited to add:
He is still fine in the stall. Not happy to be in there though. No luck with the vet, so I am heading to get the vit B1 combo and Ivermectin so we can treat them for internal/external since everyone is due for worming.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Glad he isn't worse.... get the vit B. started real soon..... I am praying... that all goes well for him..... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks Pam, we just got home. He is hollering, getting ready to take them in the backyard see if they want to graze before the rain sets in.

They had a 250mil bottle of High Level Vitamin B Complex. So would the 12cc be what I should give him? He's lost weight so at a 'minimum' I am going to say he is about 81-85lbs. I'm going to use a measurement I've relied on in the past to see if I can get an even better estimate.

Before I give him the B Complex I want to assess how he is, so while I wait for a reply I'll take him out and see what's up.

EDITED:
He doesn't look worse than yesterday, but is still off on the backend. Vit B bottle says for sheep 5mL for 100lbs, so I am assuming that would be an okay dose?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Your welcome... :hug: 


> You won't be able to get the straight B1(Thiamine) without a prescription BUT you can give Fortified B Complex or B Complex which is likely available at feed stores.....Give a minimum of 12cc of the latter IM works quicker. I was giving my 35lb doeling 12 cc every 6 hours so your boy will likely need a higher dose to get the amount of Thiamine thats in the B Complex.
> Give both every 6 hours for a full 24 hours then the Pen can be done 2 x a day...the B can be done every 8-12 hours if you see an improvement in symptoms, if not then you can continue with every 6 hours
> 
> If you can get the script for Thiamine...I was dosing my 50lb buck with 2.5cc every 6 hours.


Liz said here...you will need more than 12cc but at minimum give 12cc's ... it would be like somewhere between 24cc's (which is only 70lbs worth)and your boy is in the 80 lb range... to 30cc's ...for your boy...I am having a hard time breaking it down to the tee per lb... trying to 1/2 out the 35..isn't clicking for me...brain freeze here... :doh: It is a lot but...Liz is right.. it isn't the straight Thiamine.... it won't hurt him if he doesn't need that much......his body will burn off what it doesn't need ...through his urine... use you best judgment on the dosage....as I mentioned... it is higher than 24cc but lower than 30 cc's...I am hoping Liz can verify this......but you need to get him started on it.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks Pam I appreciate it. Wow seems like a lot! I gave him half of what I should give him, but when we do it again we'll give him more. He's much stronger, and was fighting my son didn't want to go back into the pen after the shot LOL He wanted to stay there on the back porch because I gave him some animal crackers as a reward for being a good boy. He gulped them down. 
I ended up giving in and letting them go in the woods to browse, much better than them standing around pouting. We had some rain earlier so they won't graze on the wet grass, but love to browse in the woods.

BTW, I found out the feed store changed grain! I need to find out from my husband if the grain I bought today is the same bag he got last week. If so, then they are eating different grain and this could IMO sum up a lot of the problem. Feed store apparently keeps running out of the other kind, and they can get this kind in much faster.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Your welcome...it does seem like a lot ...but by the weight of the 35 lb goat that Liz treated does make the dosage high for a heavier goat...
At least you gave him some it is better than nothing.... hope he continues to improve... :hug: 
Aww...being spoiled... hey nothing wrong with that...don't feel bad I do it too..LOL :laugh:

If he is up to moving around ...let him.... it is good for him... :thumb: :greengrin:



> BTW, I found out the feed store changed grain! I need to find out from my husband if the grain I bought today is the same bag he got last week. If so, then they are eating different grain and this could IMO sum up a lot of the problem. Feed store apparently keeps running out of the other kind, and they can get this kind in much faster.


 it is possible...... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thank You Pam, without you and Liz and the others, I think I would be so lost I'd never find my way!

I really do believe it was a feed change issue that made him sick. My husband said he can't remember if the feed bag was different last week, but he noticed the feed looked different and the day after he picked up the bag of feed last week is when we saw the diarrhea on this boy, and one of our 2mo old twins. The twin has been fine though, he didn't seem to have much of a dirty butt, but big boy had a NASTY butt. We had to take him off of grain for 2 days, and started him back slowly. 
I told my husband I noticed the different bag immediately today, and I haven't bought grain in a couple of months! He always stops on his way home from work to get it. 
I told him instead of waiting until we're out of feed to stop, he needs to get 2 bags and when they are half way done with it, buy more, so if this happens again then we can mix the grains. 
We've considered going back to the other feed store/mill - they mix their own feeds and we never ever had an issue, except the fact it's a lower % protein <15% and we're feeding 16%>. Don't get me started on his 'feeding thoughts' because we definitely don't agree <he thinks overall their weight is fine, and I think they need MORE>.

My husband went out to feed while I was cleaning up the kitchen, he's also giving him another round of penG, more B complex, and taking his temp. Hopefully his temp is fine, and hopefully with giving the B Complex he'll be back to himself in the next day or two.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Your welcome... :thumb: :hug:

If you think the particular feed created the issue... I wouldn't feed it anymore..... to be honest with you....even if the percentage of protein is higher...it isn't worth the risk.. 

:hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Pam...your calculations for doseage is right, and yes it is ALOT...I had a hard time getting even the 12cc into my kid and found that though IM was more painful to give it worked much better, I had to stick her in 2 different areas but it went where it stayed, with that amount and SQ injections, it stays under the skin to be slowly absorbed and would leak back out through the needle puncture.
Over dosing isn't an issue, they just pee out what their system doesn't need and it will cause the urine to be orange.....first time I saw my doeling pee after the initial high doses she got, it was winter with snow on the ground and believe me, it was a shock to see her turn the snow orange.
Keep up the Pen G for a minimum of 5 days...I went to 7 days with my buck and 10 days with my doeling, also give him some probiotics, scours are the bodies way of ridding it of "bad" things and if the grain is too rich, it will disrupt the gut and create an environment that "bad" bugs would thrive in, the B Complex and Pen G should help fix the issue...also, I have heard that antibiotics aren't "choosy" about the bacterias they fight...wether they are good or bad and giving the probiotics may be a waste while on the Pen G but I still gave the paste to mine.


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Sorry your little guy hasnt been well, hope hes better soon :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

He's definitely regained his strength, back to his NOISY self, but he's still off on the backend, but not enough where I am fearful of a life/death situation. We'll keep going with the meds, hopefully he makes a big improvement by Monday.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *



> Pam...your calculations for doseage is right, and yes it is ALOT...I had a hard time getting even the 12cc into my kid and found that though IM was more painful to give it worked much better, I had to stick her in 2 different areas but it went where it stayed, with that amount and SQ injections, it stays under the skin to be slowly absorbed and would leak back out through the needle puncture.
> Over dosing isn't an issue, they just pee out what their system doesn't need and it will cause the urine to be orange.....first time I saw my doeling pee after the initial high doses she got, it was winter with snow on the ground and believe me, it was a shock to see her turn the snow orange.
> Keep up the Pen G for a minimum of 5 days...I went to 7 days with my buck and 10 days with my doeling, also give him some probiotics, scours are the bodies way of ridding it of "bad" things and if the grain is too rich, it will disrupt the gut and create an environment that "bad" bugs would thrive in, the B Complex and Pen G should help fix the issue...also, I have heard that antibiotics aren't "choosy" about the bacterias they fight...wether they are good or bad and giving the probiotics may be a waste while on the Pen G but I still gave the paste to mine.


Thank you Liz... :thumb: :hug:



> He's definitely regained his strength, back to his NOISY self, but he's still off on the backend, but not enough where I am fearful of a life/death situation. We'll keep going with the meds, hopefully he makes a big improvement by Monday.


Glad he is improving that is a good sign... :hug: :thumb:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

glad to hear he is making a good recovery. I ray: that he is fully better in no time at all. You are giving him great care--he should make a full recovery :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks so much  He's still really off on the back end, but he's acting normal if that makes sense. It's not slowing him down/stopping him, he's got his appetite, and he's noisy as usual. If he hears a door open or sees you he screams like he is dying - so yep that is normal LOL

My husband will give him another round of B Complex & PenG when he gets home, then we are heading out of town for the night and part of tomorrow. I think his brother is going to make sure he gets his shot in the morning for us. Weather is supposed to be good, so no worries there.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Do you have any Selenium/Vit E paste? As far as him being normal but having the rear end weakness, I wonder if he may be Selenium deficient? If you have it, maybe try giving him some and see if it helps?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Great idea Liz..... :hi5:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick *

Thanks so much.

Well one of our does is sick now, same symptoms! She has some diarrhea, and a fever and has the same weakness issue in the back end.

I am so confused on what is going on. We've never had this problem. But I'm still thinking it could be from the feed change.

I wonder if we should stop all grain on these two, give hay and maybe get them some alfalfa pellets and some BOSS or equimax <like calf manna> and give them a few handfulls a day of one of these go go with the hay? It's a grass mix, so they'd need extra nutrition.
Need to get them wormed, but I noticed the bucks eyelids were fine the other day, they were pink. Haven't checked the doe's eyelids yet.

I gave my husband the selenium/vit e gel to give to them just now, he gave the doe banamine for the fever, and Vit B shots, I don't know if we have enough penG to give her? Didn't seem to make a difference with the buck?

Tomorrow I can call and try to find a vet, fingers crossed I can find someone that actually knows about goats. I am afraid to bring someone out that just goes on the internet to search for possible causes vs. someone who has hands on experience with goats. That's my biggest worry about bringing in a vet right now.

So frustrating


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *

You may be feeding too much grain and not enough Hay....I would definitely stop the grain on that Doe as well....

If the Doe is also doing the same as the buck start treatment on her as well...like Liz mentioned....

Seems it may be the grain.....


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *



toth boer goats said:


> You may be feeding too much grain and not enough Hay....I would definitely stop the grain on that Doe as well....
> 
> If the Doe is also doing the same as the buck start treatment on her as well...like Liz mentioned....
> 
> Seems it may be the grain.....


Thanks Pam, I think it's the grain for sure. Feed store is closed today so tomorrow I am going to call and find out WHEN they changed feeds.

They do have plenty of hay in the barn, and I think tomorrow if it's not raining we're going to take another roll of grass hay and put it behind the barn, cover it so they have access to it as well.

My husband doesn't give them much grain, in fact I have complained they don't get enough 

We plan on going back to the grain at the feed mill, I never want to go through this again 

They are going to need some supplements though, since it's just grass hay. Think I should get some alfalfa pellets and work it into their diet? The buck needs the weight, he's lost a lot since he can down sick, and the doe has always had a thin build <she favors the nubian over boer>, still I don't want her to lose any weight. She looked so miserable, poor sweet baby


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *



> They are going to need some supplements though, since it's just grass hay. Think I should get some alfalfa pellets and work it into their diet? The buck needs the weight, he's lost a lot since he can down sick, and the doe has always had a thin build <she favors the nubian over boer>, still I don't want her to lose any weight. She looked so miserable, poor sweet baby


 Yes... I would if you can't get Alfalfa hay ... Alfalfa pellets would be a good supplement ..... Do it gradually..............Of course... Alfalfa Hay... I feel is better...but.... if you can't get any ...the pellets are the next best thing...

If you had them on a good grain prior .........before you switched and it was doing them good.... I'd go back to that..... gradually...as well....

I am sorry ...you are dealing with this....over the holidays....  :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *



toth boer goats said:


> > They are going to need some supplements though, since it's just grass hay. Think I should get some alfalfa pellets and work it into their diet? The buck needs the weight, he's lost a lot since he can down sick, and the doe has always had a thin build <she favors the nubian over boer>, still I don't want her to lose any weight. She looked so miserable, poor sweet baby
> 
> 
> Yes... I would if you can't get Alfalfa hay ... Alfalfa pellets would be a good supplement ..... Do it gradually..............Of course... Alfalfa Hay... I feel is better...but.... if you can't get any ...the pellets are the next best thing...
> ...


Thanks Pam, I will see if I can find any alfalfa hay if not I will pick up the pellets.

We'd been feeding grain from this feed store since around early August? It's been a while since we switched. It seemed like a really good feed, they loved it. But when my husband stopped and got a bag about 2 weeks ago then suddenly things just seemed to go downhill 

He said the doe that is sick isn't walking like the buck, but he started out the same way - fever and diarrhea. 
I had been busy in the house and noticed she was standing near the back deck next to the fence, hunched, and head very low - sometimes she seems to nap on her feet but she NEVER looks like this, so that's what alerted me. I didn't actually see her walk until after he'd given her the shots <B & Banamine>, he said the shots made her walk sore.
He said he put her in the stall with the buck <they are somewhat buddies, get along great>, and they were eating hay and drinking water just fine.

Fingers crossed that this passes and she doesn't get any worse.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *

Your welcome... :thumbup:

I recommend getting a fecal done.... there may be something going on there....as well....What color is the scours?

How high is the fever?

Put her inside a warm place....plenty of bedding.. if you have a heat lamp set one up for her..if you don't... put a sweater on her......

Giving her vit B complex or thiamine won't hurt...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick & now a doe too *

The doe is back to her self, but the buck is worse  He's basically dragging his hind leg, and this is the worst he has been. 
I found out my husband was only giving him 20cc's IM.

He is fighting it though, keeping up with the girls, chewing cud. He hasn't had any grain since Monday, and ate some alfalfa pellets last night, not much, then this morning not much at all. He's eating a lot of hay - it has clover in it.

Thinking I am going to get a bale of alfalfa for him today.

Trying to upload a video, I'll share it as soon as it's finished.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

Glad the Doe is doing good.... :hug: :thumb:

He needs the high doses like Liz mentioned...so keep them up...

Another thing ...that still stands out in my mind is .....meningeal worm..

His appetite isn't good...get a temp on him to make sure ...something else isn't going on there...

Alfalfa would be good for him ...start him on it gradually though....

A video would be good to see ...so we can try to determine how he is doing.... :hug:


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

I tried to read through this, did I miss anything on worming him? I would consider treating for bacterial scours, parasites, and cocci all at the same time or get a fecal done right away.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

Sorry for taking so long, my daughter had an appt, and we went to get some stuff for Big Bang.
We picked him up a bale of good alfalfa hay, and we also got 3 bags of the grain from the feed mill we used to use so we can get everyone switched over to that <we'll give the alfalfa pellets to the girls since Big Bang doesn't like them>.

We got the wormer today, my husband is going to worm them now - Ivermectin injectible, as well as give him another round of B injection.

Here is a link to the video from earlier, this is the worst he's ever looked  
We had to put him in a pen with a doe and her kids after I took the video because he wanted to go back out into the woods and I was afraid he'd fall in the creek trying to jump over it.


__
https://flic.kr/p/6589284309

Needless to say I was freaked out by how bad he is today  He's bleating just fine, doesn't sound as weak, and he's letting us know it's feeding time!


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

It says I need a user name and password to access it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

Can't seem to access the video.... 

Worming him... may be a good idea... I did mention earlier about the possibility of the meningeal worm.... He may or may not have it but... if he is only getting worse.... we might as well try another avenue.... as well .....How are his gums though...are they still a good pink color? :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - getting worse *

Sorry about that, when I uploaded it was private, and forgot to change it to public, you should be able to see it now.
Good thing is he seemed a little better on his feet this evening, not much, but a little. 
This all started after that one bag of grain my husband bought from the feed store  He said he noticed it had more pellets in it than it normally did.

He is finishing up worming everyone. He mixed the feed we used to give from the feed mill with the 1/2 bag we have left from last week, and gave him a handful of that, plus he'll have his alfalfa hay as soon as they are finished.

The doe seems to be back to her normal self, thank goodness. The other girls so far have seemed unaffected, fingers crossed.

Edited to add, that what you might see on his rear end is some dried diarrhea, I've not wanted to stress him out washing it off and it's not bothering him, so I figure it can come off on it's own. He's dirty, I think he fell in the woods before I took the video  He looks so skinny though, it amazes me how awful they can look in such a short time when they are sick


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Just watched the video and meningeal worm came to mind but I am not sure about the fever and diarrhea with that. I think they are more likely to run a fever with listeriosis than polio, and both of those would cause neurological issues...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Thanks Carissa. His temp is normal has been since my first post.


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

How long was he on the Pen G? For listeriosis you have to be very aggressive with it. Here is a link with some good info and dosages: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... iosis.html

Here is a link with some info and dosages to treat meningeal worm...
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... lworm.html

I would also take in a fecal as sometimes a high parasite load can cause them to have polio and since they started with scouring that would be a place to start and rule some things out...


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Do his eyes dance at all?? All 3 of mine that had polio there eyes danced when you looked at them. Sometimes you had to watch awhile before you'd notice it but they all did it.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



Bit of Everything said:


> Do his eyes dance at all?? All 3 of mine that had polio there eyes danced when you looked at them. Sometimes you had to watch awhile before you'd notice it but they all did it.


I didn't notice it, maybe I wasn't looking long enough. When I go out to give him more Vit B I'll observe him more. With everything being quiet in the barn, maybe I'll notice something different.

Sunny Daze - THANK YOU for that info! I hope it's not Listeriosis, hope it's polio <something we can treat>. 
I do think this has to be feed related. Everyone was fine, then all of a sudden with that one bag of feed my husband picked up, 2 goats got diarrhea <the little one who had it is doing just fine>, Then when I picked up another bag on Thurs - the doe got it over the weekend, and is over her bought as well and is back to normal.

We are not sure if he was actually running a high fever though. From what I've read on many sites a goats temp can be normal up until 103.5? 
His normal temp seems to be between 102.5-103.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Bless his heart--Bless your heart! This must be hard for you.

When I watch this I get two main things--he is definately neurologic, he "knuckles" that back foot in a big way.

Also--to me the left side is VERY rotund; compared to the right side-it seems. Could this be a symptom of something?

Have you been able to take a fecal to a veterinarian?? Honestly I would do that right away. Especially due to him not being on the road to recovery with the current treatment. I think the treatment for the polio/listeriosis is working-helping him so don't stop it but my thought is--you must find out why he developed those symptoms. It may have been grain; or even something he happened upon and ate out in the woods-those things you can't help but can treat him for. If he has a type of parasite you will need to treat him for that along w/the current treatment to fully recover. :hug:

I am so sorry you are dealing with this-I wish I could tell more :shrug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



Burns Branch Boers said:


> Bless his heart--Bless your heart! This must be hard for you.
> 
> When I watch this I get two main things--he is definately neurologic, he "knuckles" that back foot in a big way.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much, I appreciate it. Yeah the way he is walking, it's so bizarre  I've never seen this before. 
We're pretty certain it is grain related. I need to see if my husband has the receipt for the bag of grain he bought so I know exactly when it was they started that particular bag that we think made him sick.

We wormed today with Ivermectin injectible. The only thing I can think of other than this is Cocci, but I have no experience with it so I need to read over the symptoms for it.

I am 100% sure this has stemmed from the grain issue though.

I have to say I am so glad we picked up grain from the feed mill today, fingers crossed!


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Polio/listerosis is basically the same thing. Babies get the polio and adults get the listerosis from my understanding. He's eyes might not dance they don't all have the same symptoms.

Hope you figure out the cause and he makes a full recovery. It is possible to get them over liserosis but it's a lot of hard work. I saved 1 of the 3 that got it here on my place. We gave everyone else a dose of penicillin as a precaution and after doing that no one else got sick.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

yes, moldy grain or moldy conditions where the grain was manufactured could have caused this I agree. You may not even be able to see the mold in some instances if it was mixed in with the grain in the plant. Do you still have the feed tag? I would research the lot # or the manufactures name on-line to see if there are any similar occurances--usually there are more than 1 victim in cases such as this.

Be careful w/just going ahead and de-worming him. He is weak right now and if this is caused by a high worm load it could cause him to drop even lower (like if you worm a goat w/a high wormload and they become anemic). Also not all worms respond to Ivermectin (some need a white dewormer based on the type). But Ivermectin is the best broad spectrum dewormer and what I regularly use when needed. I think you are dosing him w/b complex so that will help alot.

What about giving him vitamins like liquitinic or red cell? These won't cure him but might keep his energy up.

I forgot to add to my last post--is he ruminating?? Can you hear rumen sounds? That concerns me due to how his side pooched out. If he is not rumenating the others maybe able to instruct you better w/what you can do.

Also from what I have read/learned his temp is normal & seems to me he has a good temp--not low or "weak" so that is a big plus (also a sign that his rumen may be chugging along ok)

Please don't take offense to my suggestions--I am just thinking and bouncing ideas off :greengrin: (I work for a vet so it is in my nature to be "diagnostic" lol!!)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

I did ask earlier... how his gum color is ...I wanted to know this before you wormed.. in case he was anemic....

Here is a Link to the meningeal worm...they say use Ivomec Plus is best to use not the Ivomec and in high doses for several days... 
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... lworm.html

I at this point am concerned... now that I see the video...I recommend... that you should seek a vets opinion .... it could be many things...and time is crucial....

Some Diseases that look similar to meningeal worm infection include:
polio
listeriosis
CAE
scrapie
rabies
trauma
copper deficiency
vitamin E/selenium deficiency
spinal cord or brain abscesses

His Rumen seems to be working.. I seen him regurgitate in the video..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Thanks for all the help, I am going to try and find a vet that knows something about goats. I noticed a new clinic in the nearby town, fingers crossed that they know something about goats! Most everyone I know around here specialize in horses or dogs/cats, and IMO I need a knowledgeable vet to help figure this one out.

I still lean towards this being feed related.

I need to find the receipt <it's in my husbands car>
Pretty sure he bought the feed on the 13th though, and the buck and 1 buck kid had diarrhea on the 14th <very next day>. 
He had it pretty bad, it was nasty, a couple of treatments of pepto and a couple of days of no grain for him and he was fine. We never stopped graining the buck kid and he's been fine, didn't have a whole lot of diarrhea.
I am guessing the lameness started that weekend, it was very minor. We really though he'd stepped on something and hurt his foot, but there were no marks, no cuts, no hoof rot/hoof scald/etc. his foot looked fine. 
I was noticing the weight loss, and was already commenting on my husband that we needed to get some weight on him that he was losing.

12/21 Then last Wed, exactly a week after getting that bag of feed, and he was already back on that feed after the diarrhea, he got really bad, but not as bad as what you saw in the video, he walked like a drunk, and seemed really 'down,' but not really depressed if that makes sense.

That afternoon he got banamine and penG perked right up, but still not walking right

12/22 Next day I picked up another bag of feed this is the one that I noticed was not our normal brand <and still don't know if the one my husband bought on the 13th was normal or a different brand?>
Also started him on the B Complex, except my husband was only giving him 20cc's as he thought it was too much to give him more <after me telling him to GIVE MORE!>.

12/23 PenG and B Complex shots - he was also getting some grain

12/24 PenG and B Complex Shots - again he was getting some grain

12/25 we were out of town and apparently my husband's brother never gave anything 

12/26 We came home to find 1 doe with diarrhea and a fever, the buck seemed okay, no worse and not much better. However, he didn't notice the doe was sick until after she'd been fed - kids were helping me unload the car while my husband fed them, and didn't notice anything wrong with her. I was inside, looked out the kitchen window like I always do and noticed her standing nearest to the back door, head low and not looking well. 
She was treated with Banamine and he gave her Vit B Complex just in case, but no PenG. She perked up and was eating hay - stalled with the buck.

12/27 The buck seemed a little worse after eating grain the previous day, but the doe was already back to her normal self. 
We gave them both alfalfa pellets instead of grain, but the buck wasn't very interested. They were also given Selenium E Gel.

12/28 - today - my husband gave him a shot of LA200 and Vit B Complex, after offering more alfalfa pellets, he nibbled on them, but we were worried about him getting weak with no real nutrition. So we bought him a bale of alfalfa hay, and we bought grain from the feed mill we used to always get our grain from <they mix their own never EVER had an issue with it just a long drive to get it>. My husband did mix the grain, and he gave the buck a handful of it. Put him in a stall with some alfalfa and regular grass hay. He will be due for more B Complex in about an hour. Everyone was given Ivermectin Injectible.

I have looked everywhere local and couldn't find Ivermectin Plus. I had been told that Ivermectin as long as given as a high dose should be fine for the deer worm? I do not think worms are an issue, but I could be wrong. I haven't checked gums, but eyelids all looked fine. The buck was wormed with a very good wormer by his breeder when we bought him on Sept 1st.

This is so frustrating. But I'm pretty sure this has to do with the feed, because everyone was perfectly fine until that one bag of grain, then this second bag that I instantly recognized as not being our normal feed. 
But I don't know if the bag my husband bought on the 13th was normal feed or different brand! I may call the feed store again, and tell them I WANT to know what the h*ll they sold me!
Sadly we don't have that bag, my husband threw it away 

If the others didn't have diarrhea and shown some signs of sickness, I would suspect anything and everything as being the culprit. But with the other 2 that showed the same signs, but thankfully got better.... This guy isn't a big grazer like the girls and the young twin boys either, they graze quite a bit and eat a lot of hay, and he is just so much more 'picky.'

Again I'll definitely call a vet. I just wonder if we're not giving enough B Complex that we're just prolonging it if it's polio? 
Would B1 from the vet be better ? I MIGHT be able to talk a vet into writing me a script for it. I'll also see about getting a fecal done.
I could be very wrong again, but I think that feed has made him extremely sick. Poor baby  He seems to be toughing it out, and wants to love all over you the minute you get near him.

I'll be beyond heartbroken if we can't save him


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

So sorry to hear about your sick boy. I would not think feed since everyone was not affected. In case it is feed don't give him anymore. I also think that the folding over of the hoof like that looks neurological and not feed related. If it is Polio or Listeriosis you need to use Pen G not LA-200. You need to do very high doses of the Pen G for at least 5 days straight and see if you get improvement. 1cc per every 10#'s. Banimine to reduce brain swelling and high doses of B-Complex or Thiamine. Sounds like you have done some of this but not a full treatment of any. It is not recommended to do incomplete doses of antibiotics just like that is not recommended for humans. Since the Pen G is what is necessary if this is Polio/Listeriosis use that. The LA-200 and Pen G kinda cancel each other out so don't use both together.

Polio and Listeriosis are two different things not different names for the same thing but they have very similar symptoms.

Hoping for a full recovery. ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



freedomstarfarm said:


> So sorry to hear about your sick boy. I would not think feed since everyone was not affected. In case it is feed don't give him anymore. I also think that the folding over of the hoof like that looks neurological and not feed related. If it is Polio or Listeriosis you need to use Pen G not LA-200. You need to do very high doses of the Pen G for at least 5 days straight and see if you get improvement. 1cc per every 10#'s. Banimine to reduce brain swelling and high doses of B-Complex or Thiamine. Sounds like you have done some of this but not a full treatment of any. It is not recommended to do incomplete doses of antibiotics just like that is not recommended for humans. Since the Pen G is what is necessary if this is Polio/Listeriosis use that. The LA-200 and Pen G kinda cancel each other out so don't use both together.
> 
> Polio and Listeriosis are two different things not different names for the same thing but they have very similar symptoms.
> 
> Hoping for a full recovery. ray:


Thanks Logan I appreciate it. We had two other goats who have had diarrhea and were fine after eating the new bags of grain. First bag a 2 1/2 mo old buck had diarrhea, then last bag a doe.

He's about the same tonight, he's urinating and his poo is normal, drinking and he was up eating hay when we went in, and again when we left.

For some reason I was thinking the penG for 3 days? We can certainly give it to him again.

The problem we are having now is the B Complex is seeping back out of the injection site. 
If we can get some B1 could we do smaller doses? I think he is getting really weary from all the injections


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

If you had B1 it would be a lot less. If it is polio, you need to give B1 (or high doses of B-complex) every 6 hours until syptoms are gone. For listeriosis Pen G needs to also be given every 6 hours...the dosages and all the info are on that link I posted earlier. For meningeal worm, ivomec (or plus) daily for I believe 5 days or 7...can't remember which. I think it said 1 cc per 25 lbs.

So just make sure you are being aggressive enough with which ever route you are taking. You may be giving just enough of something to keep him from getting worse very quickly but not enough to completely fix it.

I had a doe several years ago that started with a fever (can't remember if she had diarrhea at all though). I gave her an antibiotic dose as normal. She then started with the neurological signs (circling, head pressed against wall, eyes shaking). The vet suspected listeriosis or polio and said the amount of antibiotic was probably just enough to keep her from getting bad quickly. I ended up doing the whole regiment of pen G and B1 every 6 hours, lots of fluids (b/c she did eventually go down and her tongue got so swollen she couldn't eat or drink) and dex for any inflammation (along with lots of probios). She did recover although was never quite right and was sold to a pet home. She was a pin cushion for about a week poor thing...

Hope your guy pulls through! That he is up and alert is definitely a good sign but pretty much anything that causes neurological symptoms like that leg dragging needs to be hit hard! Good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

This is from Dr David Anderson who was at Ohio State University at the time when he came out with this treatment for alpacas in 2003 for Meningeal Worm:

Our current TREATMENT protocol is:

Fenbendazole (Panacur or Safeguard) at 50 mg/kg body weight orally daily for 5 days

Flunixin (Banamine) 1 mg/kg body weight subQ, twice daily for 3 days, once daily for 3 days

Vitamin E supplement 500 to 1000 units orally daily for 14 days

Omeprazole (Gastrogard) 2 to 4 mg/kg orally daily 7 to 10 days

Physical therapy.

Note:
Ivermectin or Dectomax are good for PREVENTION, not TREATMENT. Neither of these drugs enters the central nervous system which is where the worms are in CLINICAL cases.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Thanks for all the help everyone, I am so thankful I have you all!

He is not any better this morning, and can not stand  He seems content otherwise, so he doesn't seem to be completely miserable. I put his alfalfa hay down where he can reach it, cleaned and put new bedding because he was laying in his pee 

I called the only vet clinic I could think of that could possibly help and they are getting me a Bottle of B1! Also another shot can't think of what she said it was <I was outside at the time and couldn't write it down>, but it will help with any swelling. 
I'll pick up more penG so we don't run out.

Karen - I do have most of that stuff <safeguard, banamine and I have vit 3 gel caps>

Am I totally off thinking this could be polio/listeriosis instead of deer worm? If you look at the time line in my post last night at 10:53pm, It just seems that it all started with that grain.

The vet said we are probably just giving him enough to keep him going and when we slacked off when he seemed better, it could have made him worse. THey want us to try this and then if he isn't any better they want us to bring him in. 
I am so glad I found this clinic, they did some health certificates for my kids 4-H goats, but didn't think they really treated large animals. They are in a neighboring county.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

It would probably be a good idea to treat for both polio and M worm. Then you are covering all the bases. I hope he gets better for you.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



ksalvagno said:


> It would probably be a good idea to treat for both polio and M worm. Then you are covering all the bases. I hope he gets better for you.


Thanks I appreciate it. I am getting ready to go back out and check on him, make sure he can get some water. The B1 should be coming into the clinic soon so we'll leave to go get it once it comes in.

I don't think we can give him Banamine with the other shot we have to give, but we can give him a high dose of safeguard, and I can dissolve some Vit E gel caps.

I have to get the kids fed and check on him before we go, so I don't have time before I go to check the dosage on this. 
I have E Vitamin 200IU USP, any idea how many of those for a goat that weighs 82-90lbs?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Sorry he isn't better...  :hug:

But... I am happy you found a good clinic.... I really recommend taking him there for them to check him out... in case...
It could very well be Polio.....and it could be the Meningeal worm or something else as well......There are a lot of different things it could be... with him being down like that... anything can take over his body......now that he can't get up...Pneumonia can set it....and we need to determine what the diagnosis is for him...to give him the proper treatment ...to try to get him well again...... 
this is what I would personally do.... for my goat..... :hug:

Did you ever get to look into his eyes?


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



> Our current TREATMENT protocol is:
> 
> Fenbendazole (Panacur or Safeguard) at 50 mg/kg body weight orally daily for 5 days
> 
> ...


These doses in mg would be very easy to mistake for ml/cc, since we normally don't do the calculations. So be sure if you use this to calculate the milligrams into milliliters before using it. Maybe that's a no brainer, I haven't seen dosage recommendations given this way before.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



toth boer goats said:


> Sorry he isn't better...  :hug:
> 
> But... I am happy you found a good clinic.... I really recommend taking him there for them to check him out... in case...
> It could very well be Polio.....and it could be the Meningeal worm or something else as well......There are a lot of different things it could be... with him being down like that... anything can take over his body......now that he can't get up...Pneumonia can set it....and we need to determine what the diagnosis is for him...to give him the proper treatment ...to try to get him well again......
> ...


Thanks Pam I really do appreciate it. They want to try this and if it doesn't work then they want me to bring him in. I think the vet that knows about large animals is in and out today.
I worry about pneumonia  He can get up onto his knees, and scoot around the stall, so that's a relief.

I did look at his eyes, but didn't notice anything? Maybe I am missing something, but I just didn't see anything that alarmed me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*



> Thanks Pam I really do appreciate it. They want to try this and if it doesn't work then they want me to bring him in. I think the vet that knows about large animals is in and out today.
> I worry about pneumonia  He can get up onto his knees, and scoot around the stall, so that's a relief.
> 
> I did look at his eyes, but didn't notice anything? Maybe I am missing something, but I just didn't see anything that alarmed me.


 Your so welcome... :thumb:

I pray.. that it works for him....poor guy... :hug: ray:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

ray: Praying this works for you.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

I just got back from the clinic a few minutes ago. They gave me Thiamine <500mg> I think it's around 100cc bottle, and want me to give him a shot of dexamethasone. I also picked up some more penG from them since I was already there. 
My husband gets home right about 4pm <3:20pm now>, and he's due for more penG at 4:30pm, so I figure we could just wait and do everything at once, so I can keep the penG/B1 at the same time. 
They said 1cc/ml of Thiamine every 6 hours for the first 24 hours, then once a day after that. But if he is not better by Monday they want us to bring him in.

He's still getting around on his knees okay, I got some more alfalfa down for him and put it in a different spot so he had to move to get it, I will continue to move it around in an attempt to keep him moving. He's been moving around though, there are poo piles here and there.

The does are not happy that he is in there. I am alternating keeping a doe next to him in the stall. Our barn is made out of pallets, and so are the stall walls so they can see each other easily. The does are fine about it, but give me that 'why am I in prison mom" look. 
I almost feel sorry for the girls <except they can steal a little alfalfa from him, and have a hay rack full of their very own hay vs. eating with the others>, oh so tortured.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

LOL... the girls will get over it...... :wink:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Jan that is really good you pointed that out! I never have seen it dosed in mgs either. 
ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

We went out as soon as my husband got home and gave him a shot of B1/Thiamine, dexamethasone, and penG. He found his footing and although he is very weak <and VERY sore from all the shots>, he was able to stand on his own and was eating hay I had put in his hay feeder, YEAY! He moved around a little but he's still extremely weak on the backend, but you could see him flexing the leg muscles when he was standing, which he hadn't done all day. 
I was going to take video, but went back out about 20 minutes later and he was laying down nearly asleep. Of course it's feeding time and he was hollering right along with the girls. My husband is giving him a handful of feed at feeding time, no more than that.

I know he may never get back to 100%, but as long as he can get well enough to walk and be comfortable, that's all I am praying for!

We'll see how he is in a little while after things quiet down out there. Fingers crossed!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Glad he got up for a little while.... that is good for him... :hug: 
Try to get him to get up and try to get him to move around some here and there.....it keeps things moving inside.... such as his Rumen and helps so he doesn't develop pneumonia.... he is trooper and you are doing a great job with him..... Prayers and thoughts going his way..... ray:

Also...am happy he got a shot of Thiamine in him....

We can only hope... he will get back to 100%..... never give up.....it is to early to tell..... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

My husband and I went out about 20 minutes ago and gave him another round of penG and Thiamine. He was laying down, and tried to get away, poor baby! Gave him the shots, and he stood up urinated for what seemed like FOREVER, then he was nibbling on hay. He's back to looking like he did yesterday, but he seems a little stronger in the hind right, maybe a tiny bit better in the hind left, still a big change considering he couldn't get up offof his knees or use his back legs all day, and now he's able to get up and move around even if it's not steady and balance is way off.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

That sounds really promising..... :thumb: :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

We gave him his treatment a little late this morning, but he seemed a little better, after we were done he pushed the stall door open and walked into the aisle waiting for us to let him out of the barn LOL I had to bribe him to go back inside the stall. 
He's possibly a little better than he was in the video I posted on Thurs, which is a big improvement since he couldn't stand up at all for most of the day yesterday.

If for some reason he isn't a whole lot better by 4pm <24 hours after starting the every 6 hour treatment> how would you dose the B1 and the PenG? The vet said 1x a day on the B1, but if he is still not improved a great deal? I'm thinking for as sick as he was, it will take a while before he makes a good recovery. Just praying he doesn't have a lot of permanent damage where he can't live a comfortable/normal life.

Edited to add:

I have been noticing him scratching some spots on the back of his neck, hair is much shorter, but I can't see anything other than some dry skin. He also has a spot at the top of one of his shoulders that is getting like this. 
We treated them for some lice a while back and he got dry skin, hasn't totally gone away, so I think he has sensitive skin. 
Could this be a 'buck thing?' Our last buck did this too, he was HARD to get a close look at - no where near as easy to handle as this young guy. Anyway, we treated that buck for lice as he did have them, but even after they were gone, he was still doing that.

None of our does have done anything like this ever, not even when they had some lice on them. We have only had 1 young doeling that had sensitive skin and it didn't matter what you put on her, gentle shampoo, permectrin II, water, etc.

Could it be his winter coat bothering him along with the dry skin? he's really started to grow an undercoat. I don't recall our last buck doing this in the summer months, only in the winter and early spring.


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Glad he seems to be perking up a bit!!! :thumb: I would continue the B1 every 6 hours at least for another day. Honestly it is not going to do any harm and if you cut back to quickly he can relapse. I don't know what to tell you about the scratching. I think you said you already gave him an injection of ivomec so that should take care of any lice or mites...I suppose you could always dust him to be sure but it could just be dry skin.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

If you have some DE... put that on him.... As mentioned... if you gave him Ivomec ...it should take care of the lice....

Glad he is improving.... I would continue the treatments like you have been doing.... Hopefully Liz will be able to tell you... how long to continue this treatment....I wish I knew but... I haven't had this issue..... I do know... if the treatment is stopped to soon... it could be very bad...... as mentioned ....it won't hurt him...... but will do him more good...sounds like he is responding well to treatment..... there is hope .... :hug: :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Thanks  I think for now we'll just keep going every 6 hours at least through tomorrow and see what happens. Do you think giving him a shot of Banamine tomorrow would help? I know he is VERY sore on the backend from all the shots. 
We took him out for about 2 hours in the backyard to graze with the girls, he's walking about the same as he was in the video which was a HUGE improvement from yesterday since he couldn't even stand up or use his back legs.
We are giving him less than 1/2 a pound of grain from the feed mill a day divided into 2 feedings, plus he gets a flake of alfalfa and has free choice grass mix. 
Hoping he is a little stronger tomorrow, weather is going to be good again, so I'll put him out in a pen with one of the does for company.

He acts like his normal self, just can't walk very well. He was following me around the backyard trying to rub all over my leg <he thinks because I let my herd queen do it he can too LOL>. He fell down once, trying to turn too fast while one of the twin boys were trying to challenge him. They are not even 3 months old and usually all play together, and the babies just dont seem to understand their friend can't play like that right now  
He grazed here and there, but yeah, mostly just followed me around! Figured if I kept him moving it might help strengthen his hind end?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

:wink:

Banamine.. not sure if you can give it to a goat with Polio or not.. hopefully someone else will know....

Sounds like he is doing Ok with getting around ...that is a plus... and he has a good appetite... :thumbup:

Following you around is so sweet.... he loves his momma...and yes.. it does help him....to move around.... if he doesn't use it... he may lose it.... :thumb:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

I am so thankful he is better! That is such wonderful news. What a change from being "down" in the barn to following you around  Bless his little heart--he is a fighter!

I am praying he continues to improve steadily for you! Come on lil Big Bang!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Thanks so much! I wanted to get more video of him today but didn't have time to do it  He seems to be a little stronger on the hind end, but if he does make a full recovery it's going to take a while, at least that's what I think at this point. I put him and a doe out in what will eventually be his pen for the day and you'd think they were in prison, poor goaties!

He tries to run now! And OMG it's hilarious, I mean I feel awful and shouldn't laugh, but knowing how awful he was the other day, and seeing him charging with his front legs and forcing his back legs to follow, hehe...
He's a fighter, he's strong, and stubborn as ever  I'll try to get pics/video tomorrow.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

:hug: :hi5:  ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

He gobbled up his grain a little while ago, and we took him out into the pen. Of course as soon as I got him out <he was on a leash>, a doe came over to inspect him and he starts pawing at her side making gesters....LOL She's not in heat and is bred, heh....
He seems to be walking slightly better than yesterday but not a whole lot. I'll get video later unless I have to take them back inside early. We're going through a weather change and it's REALLY windy, we've had 50mph wind gusts. It's 50 right now, and the high tomorrow will only be 31!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

:thumbup:

Sounds like colder weather on the way....keep him as warm as you can.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Well he seems to have gotten a little worse from yesterday. We were starting to decrease his shots from 4 to 3 yesterday. He was due for a round about 1am and I fell asleep & forgot to set the alarm!  This morning it was very cold so I waited until it warmed up a little before getting them all out of their warm spots. I give him a little feed, and the twin boys we are weaning some in the mornings, so the others freak out thinking they are getting fed too.

He's acting fine, maybe he's just stiff from it being so cold? It's 24 out right now and the wind chill is 13. He's in his pen w/a doe, and I put tarps around the temporary shelter I had in the pen to keep the wind off of them and put up a hay feeder, so they have lots of hay.

Should we just keep him going every 6 hours in the B1, and possibly 3x a day on the penG? Or just do both every 6 hours? We've been doing the more aggressive treatment since Thursday afternoon. Maybe he needs a week of intense treatment? Or is there a possability he won't get any better?

BTW, we are actually having snow showers today! He stood out there looking at it like WTH is that???? Then he ran into the shelter, and peeked out as if it might come in there and get him. He must have realized the doe didn't go inside, and was brave and came back out...haha... he's an early April 2011 boy so he'd never seen snow before. 
It freaked our Oct twin boys out too, they hauled butt for the barn!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - video pg 3 is fixed!*

Well he seemed to shape up after being out for a few minutes. He's still dragging one foot a bit. He's definitely come a long way since Thursday though. He's stronger on the other hind leg, he tries to run and seems to be in no pain, just really annoyed that he's slowed down by his back legs lack of speed!

It was bitterly cold today in the mid to low 20s with wind chills in the teens. Didn't seem to bother him much, but he still couldn't figure out the snow when it was falling LOL

I tried to get 3 more videos today, it's hard because he is constantly following me and wanting attention. He LOVES to rub on you, and tries to get your hand on his chest so you can give him a good scratch. Of course I know this is a TERRIBLE habit for a buck!

BTW, please don't mind his icky rear end, it's all dried stuff, my DH accidentally drew blood late yesterday when giving him his B1 in the backend. 
Is there another good place other than the backend to give the B1? I think part of his issue could be that he's very sore from the shots.


__
https://flic.kr/p/6622626841


__
https://flic.kr/p/6622078265


__
https://flic.kr/p/6621888121

If you can see in the pic the place he's rubbed on the back of his neck where the hair is very short? I haven't seen anything at all just a bunch of hay pieces down in the hair. Hoping to dust him as a precaution tomorrow or Wed, I need to get more so I can do it.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I thought I posted in this but I guess it did not attach.

I give all my meds like that orally. I could never stick one that many times. Just a thought.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*



sweetgoats said:


> I thought I posted in this but I guess it did not attach.
> 
> I give all my meds like that orally. I could never stick one that many times. Just a thought.


I didn't know you could give penG orally? We can certainly try doing it orally.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

No, you should not give Pen G orally to a sick goat. The pen G will kill all the rumen bacteria and make his condition worse. The B1 I would stick with injected as well. If he is sick his rumen isn't going to absorb the b1 very well. You can give the shots in his shoulders and neck.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Not only will the PenG kill the rumen bacteria, but the acids in the rumen also destroy the pen G, rendering it ineffective. It doesn't get out where it's needed.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks we'll try the B1 in the neck/shoulders. The penG actually doesn't seem to bother him - we've been giving it to him on his back - between the shoulders. I usually give him the penG while he's eating his grain as it doesn't seem to phase him. But he doesn't like the B1 and acts like it hurts/stings after you give it.

Liz said she gave probios a little each day while her goats were on penG, what's a good dose to give him? He's picked up a tiny bit of weight, and I'm guessing he's getting closer to the 90lb. mark He'll be 9 months old on Wed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*



> No, you should not give Pen G orally to a sick goat. The pen G will kill all the rumen bacteria and make his condition worse. The B1 I would stick with injected as well. If he is sick his rumen isn't going to absorb the b1 very well. You can give the shots in his shoulders and neck.


 I have to agree here... 

I wish I knew what to tell you ...on how long to treat ect ....but I don't ...
Can you ask the vet clinic? :hug:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I don't have any suggestions for you, but you and your goat are in my thoughts. :hug: He looks like a sweet boy.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I'm sorry that you are still treating your boy... sometimes it does take a bit longer to get them to the point of showing improvement.
When I treated Penny and Hank for the listeria/polio....both had obvious nuerologic symptoms with their eyes darting and dancing, Hank was the only one that had the issue with his head going to the left over his shoulder and both would stagger as though drunk, with your boy getting the Pen G and the Thiamine( IF it is the straight 200ml/cc Thiamine) as long as he has been..... I only had the Fortified B Complex when Penny was sick and I gave that to her at a rate of 12cc every 6 hours IM for 24 hours then went to 3x a day the next day and then SQ 2x a day for the following 2 days and she recovered her symptoms, with Hank...I gave the 200ml/cc Thiamine at a rate of 2cc every 6 hours and didn't start the Pen G as soon as I should have and his symptoms worsened, it wasn't til after I gave the initial 5cc injection of Pen G that improvement was shown.... BUT with each goat here, there was no temp and no diarrhea and they showed improvement within 6 hours of beginning treatment. Penny had lasting effects from the encephalopathy with an aversion to total darkness for 2 months after but she's totally fine now and it's been 2 years. With your boy and the fact that he's been getting the standard treatments for possible polio/listeria for almost 2 weeks now and hasn't improved much....I'd say that it's time to get a vet involved, I know it's hard to say enough's enough but with this going on as long as it's been...I don't think polio/listeria is the problem :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I do agree with Liz here.... a vet needs to see him now.... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks so much Liz and Pam! The vet told us on Thurs to kind of 'x' out what we were doing before Thursday because there was no way he was getting enough medicine to make him better. They said it might have kept him from getting worse, but wasn't making him better.
I'll put a call in tomorrow and see what they say. The good news is, he seemed to be walking better today! I didn't get to spend much time outside with them inspecting today but watching from the window he did look better.

He's been on the B1 and Penicillin for 5 days now. We are going to stop the penicillin, and keep the B1 going 2x a day although the vet had told us 1x a day.

I can't think of anything else it could be that caused this except the grain, and it had made 2 others sick, but they are big hay eaters & grazers compared to him, so I'm thinking maybe they ate enough other stuff to keep from getting so sick? He doesn't get 'too much' grain, but that grain definitely wasn't their normal grain. My husband said it was more pelleted than usual. He wasn't digging into the grain like he normally does either. He was eating it but really being picky about it, then the next day he had the diarrhea.

So far everyone else has been just fine, even the ones that had the diarrhea.

I should be able to get outside in the morning to see how he is. I do notice he is a little stiff in the mornings when I take him out, but once he's out for a little while he looks more relaxed.

He's up to about a pound of grain a day too, still gets his alfalfa and always has grass hay available. He's sucking down the water too. It's just that one leg that really seems to throw him off.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

:hug: Glad he is a little better.... ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

He seems to be improving a little each day. Today he was able to stand and scratch under his neck with the bad leg, and was able to keep his balance. We stopped the penG and he'll get B1 1x a day per vet. 
He's also been able to stand on his hind legs in the stall to let me know he is dying to get out in the mornings LOL With it being so cold since New Years day, I haven't been turning him out until about 11am when it starts to warm up and when the sun is completely shining on his pen area. But with warmer weather the next few days I'll get him out early. Can't wait to get his permanent shelter built then he can stay out there 24/7.

I do have a question, how much probios should I give? And how long after giving the last dose of penG will the penG affect probios?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Glad he is even better...that is what I want to hear.... :hi5: :hug:  :clap:

I would skip a day after the last treatment... then give it to him..... :greengrin:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks Pam! He seemed a little bit better today too. His back left is still weak, but as sick as he was I figure it will take time for him to get better, not going to happen over night. He still gets his B1 shot every evening, also wormed everyone with their second round of Ivermectin Injectible. He is still itchy on his neck and so is one of our does, I don't see anything there on him, the doe is dark and has a THICK winter undercoat, so it's hard to tell with her, but just to be safe we'll definitely use some powder on them, I just need to get more first! Hopefully tomorrow if I can get to down before the feed stores close.

It's been a mild day it was 61! Well above average for us, and will be in the low 40s tonight. So, we put him and the twin boys we've been weaning in his pen for the night instead of in stalls. Praying all works out, I'll check on them through the night. They all get along and were buddies before, so hopefully the twins will adjust <during the day their mama has been in with the buck, and they've been out with the other does - their mama is quiet and we knew she wouldn't stress him out>. When we came in and I looked out the window the 3 boys were in the pen butting/playing.

I took a video of him running from the pen to our backyard to graze with everyone, I'll try to upload, not a great video, but he sure was happy to get out of that pen LOL

Now I just pray he does not relapse, we're giving him 1 1/2 - 2cc's of B1, vet told us 1cc. He is picking up weight and slowly getting a little more than 1lb. of grain a day now divided into morning & afternoon feeding. Hoping to eventually get him up to at least 2lbs. We have to figure out how to get him alfalfa hay without the twins taking it, my husband says he has an idea...hmmm...that is SCARY LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Glad he is still doing OK.... :thumb: :greengrin:

Husband has an idea ...oh dear..LOL :shocked: :laugh:

Still praying for him ... ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

He's even better today  I am so thrilled. He's still weak on his hind end, but he's almost walking normally! ray: :wink:

Yesterday we took them out into the front yard to graze, and of course all he cares about is what kind of trouble he can get in. Here's one of his 'I'm about to get into trouble' looks haha... of course what he didn't know was my husband was getting their wormer shots ready LOL










I wanted to get a video of him walking, but never got the chance, however here is a low quality, video of him and Ithma running from his pen <don't laugh I know my gate and his shelter are unattractive LOL!! They work for now!>.


__
https://flic.kr/p/6656034129

BTW, to me he looks FUNKY because his hair is growing in different directions LOL His hair down his back grows in such a manner it makes his back look crooked :slapfloor: I have to admit, I can't wait for the 'winter hair' to be a gone, one of our does gets a THICK undercoat and always looks 'shaggy' haha...

He's getting 1.25lbs of grain the past few days going to see if I can get him up to a pound and a half tomorrow! I figure every three days I'd slowly raise the amount.


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## SandStoneStable Farm (Dec 8, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I've been reading you post, but didn't have anything to add. I'm so glad your boy is looking better. I really hope he continues to show improvement! You've definitely done a great deal for him


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## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Glad hes improving 

I had a very young foal with similar symptoms but not the diarrhea or temperature, it turned out to be a selenium deficiency (white muscle didease), he too was down and couldnt stand unaided, he had been out with another foal of the same age and play fighting as they do, poor Hasan because he was deficient ended up all sore and bruised because his body wasnt functioning and repairing as it should because of the deficiency. I found him down one morning and the only way we could get him up was to lift him as his backend was so weak and wobbly, the vet diagnosed the deficiency and treated him for it but we spent well over a week lifting him to his feet and bottle feeding him, he slowly improved a was back to normal with in a month thankfully.

Not sure if your little boy has been treated for a selenium deficiency and obviously what you have been doing is working but perhaps wouldnt do any harm to give selenium and vit E as well.

He sounds like such a good patient bless him, hope he back to normal real soon


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

He is getting around better... that is such a blessing... :leap: he looks to be a happy camper.... :thumb: :greengrin:

I see in the video ...that he has a lump on his right side... is that hair or does he have a lump there?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks Pam! I was so worried he'd never walk again, and today he's walking pretty much normal! He still has a slight limp, but he's no longer having an issue with his back left foot other than the limp. He has spent his day playing with the twin boys - headbutting, etc. he tries to mount them LOL He's still a little weak on that part, but you can tell he is having fun with them. It was a chain mounting reaction about 20 minutes ago - little white boy was mounting his red brother, then Big Bang mounted the white boy LOL!!! I think only goat people could find this funny and non goat/animal people find it ummm....concerning? hehe :laugh:

He doesn't have any lumps on his side, could be his hair? His hair is growing in every direction, he looks awful! He does have a wide rack, and since he lost weight when he came down sick, he's sunken in more at the hips, so it rack sticks out even more, along with his silly hairdo, maybe that's what you saw? Some days before he got sick you'd think he was pregnant because he gets so wide!

I'll have to try and get some video tomorrow. The weather has been beautiful here, so it's been fun to get outside and spend more time with the goats since the rush and busy times of the holidays are now behind us.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

So good to hear that he is improving :hug:

I pray that he continues to do well for you ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*



liz said:


> So good to hear that he is improving :hug:
> 
> I pray that he continues to do well for you ray:


Thanks Liz! You and the others have been a lifesaver for him! I definitely need to get a walking video to show how much he's improved from the last video I took. 
Now to get him up to par on feeding so he can put on some more weight. I am guessing he's right about 100lbs, and just turned 9 months old, need to weigh him so we know what kind of weight progress he is making.
Amazing how quickly they go down hill!


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I am so thankfull he is better! He doesn't even look sick anymore! He looks great and looks like he feels good too. You have been through alot with him and I pray he continues to improve (he is such a sweet boy)

So I have a question--I saw you asked a question re: when you can give probios if they are taking penG--can they not get the 2 together? I got the probios granuels a while ago and anytime one of mine are on anti-biotics I give them probios during that time??? Is that bad? :shrug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks BBB! I never thought he'd get better, I was so worried about him! He's really made a big improvement especially in the last 2 days!

You can give probios while they are on penG, but I believe the penG will eventually kill the bacteria. We haven't given him anymore yet, I meant to do it today and forgot to come back in and get it!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Glad it isn't a lump.... 

Keep us updated on him...he sounds and looks like.. he is loving life.... :hi5: :thumb:



> So I have a question--I saw you asked a question re: when you can give probios if they are taking penG--can they not get the 2 together? I got the probios granuels a while ago and anytime one of mine are on anti-biotics I give them probios during that time??? Is that bad? :shrug:


 I hear one way not to give it and another... it is OK to give it at the same time.... So...I decided on my own..LOL ...I rather wait it out... then give it ...after the meds ...just in case.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Okay seriously I think he is trying to DRIVE ME NUTS!

He's a SUPER PICKY eater. OMG I have never ever had a goat so picky! He doesn't like the grain. he wastes it by tossing it back and forth in the feeder so it spills out because he doesn't like the 'crumbs' it's a medicated feed. We were using the feed mill grain when we bought him and had the same problem. He was raised on pellets.
So I told my husband maybe we should get him pellets? But he doesn't want to have to worry about 2 different feeds from 2 different feed stores. And neither of us plan to ever buy grain at the local feed store again.

What makes it so hard is the fact we have twin 3mo boys in with him so anything he doesn't eat they will eat. THEY EAT EVERYTHING LOL
So it's not like he can eat and come back to it. 
I've put the twins up for sale, but I think he wont' handle being alone very well. So I'm thinking we'll sell one and then sell the other one later on. Then put a protein block out there for them? 
I just can't do alfalfa hay, it's $9.00 a bale right now. He does eat hay, we give 2 different kinds of grass hay and make sure they always have hay. The younger 'hayburners' again eat anything, but I do see him out there eating with them.

I tell ya if it's not one thing it's another! If he doesn't eat he's never going to gain weight and grow


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Oh no....what a turd..... :doh:

He sounds like... he isn't very hungry.. if he is playing with it.... or ...he just plainly doesn't like it...try putting a feed he does like in it....have more of the stuff he likes compared to the stuff he doesn't....then... as he eats it and doesn't waste it... then... start increasing the other feed... until you get him eating ...what you want him to eat....



> What makes it so hard is the fact we have twin 3mo boys in with him so anything he doesn't eat they will eat. THEY EAT EVERYTHING LOL
> So it's not like he can eat and come back to it.


 Hmm... you would think it would be competition and it would make him eat more.... :scratch:

If you can get ...1 bale of Alfalfa.... that will help keep him warmer and help to put on weight...cause he is now probably just burning of what he eats... grass hay just doesn't have a lot of good in it......you don't have to feed a lot... just take a little bit at a time...like 2x a day.... and feed it along with the other hay.....


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

I missed this thread somehow. Sounds like you've been through an ordeal! glad he is going better :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks Pam and Maggie!

I think SUPER TURD is more like it LOL His former nickname was IDIOT BUTT LOL ---> he never learned after about a zillion times that his head can get stuck in the fence, then he'd cry like a baby as if he was soooo innocent LOL Of course we haven't had this problem since he's been sick...whew.

I have to figure out a way to get him the food he needs without the twins eating it all. There is no way to give him alfalfa with the twins in there. I put them up for sale today on craigslist, they are cute boys, very healthy and growing nicely but that doesn't mean they will sell anytime soon. 
He really needs to be in the pen alone until he's better, but I think he'll get stressed if he sees the twins outside the pen now that he's used to them being in with him, they are after all the '3 amigos.'

One thing I am thinking I might be able to pull off for now is...the way the shelter is set up I could 'possibly' lock the twins in the back section, it's plenty big for them, put hay/water, and then give the buck alfalfa and feed, and possibly just lock him into the front section and block it off so he isn't getting a draft. That away he can still see them, but they can't get to his feed? They were stalled like this in the barn, so maybe that would work? I just need to get a couple of pallets to pull it off...

Plus offer him grain 3x a day so long as he's eating plenty of hay? I don't mean a huge increase, but divide up what he is getting, and add a little more?

And one more thing....what about adding calf manna? The grain we switched back too is only 15%. I can get something very similar to calf manna, it's just a generic and sold by the lb. vs. having to buy and store a whole bag. I've used it for does and kids in the past and they loved it, I just mixed it in with their feed.

It's just one thing or another...at least my life isn't....BORING LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Your welcome... :greengrin:



> I think SUPER TURD is more like it LOL His former nickname was IDIOT BUTT LOL


 :ROFL: too funny...



> ---> he never learned after about a zillion times that his head can get stuck in the fence, then he'd cry like a baby as if he was soooo innocent LOL Of course we haven't had this problem since he's been sick...whew.


 that's where the name ...butt head comes in.... :laugh:

Try to see if ...you can put them in seperate area's yet... they can still see and touch each other through a fence......that way.. he won't be totally alone.... See if it works....



> '3 amigos.'


 LOL :greengrin:



> One thing I am thinking I might be able to pull off for now is...the way the shelter is set up I could 'possibly' lock the twins in the back section, it's plenty big for them, put hay/water, and then give the buck alfalfa and feed, and possibly just lock him into the front section and block it off so he isn't getting a draft. That away he can still see them, but they can't get to his feed?


 :thumbup:



> Plus offer him grain 3x a day so long as he's eating plenty of hay? I don't mean a huge increase, but divide up what he is getting, and add a little more?


 That may work... 



> And one more thing....what about adding calf manna?


Yes... I would... or get calf starter ....it has a higher protein...

Goats make life very interesting....


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks again Pam I always appreciate your advice, means a lot to me!
He ate nearly 1lb this morning at feeding! He was HUNGRY! But he didn't finish the last of the crumbs, but he ate a majority of it all with more anticipation.
We did give him more Probios yesterday evening, so maybe that is helping with his appetite 
He's still getting his B1.

We'll seperate them in the shelter tonight, put alfalfa in his hay feeder, and I will possibly take him out some grain before I go to bed - after he eats some alfalfa. 
Going to dust him and boys, they are first priority for dusting so we can get rid of the pests that are causing irritation/itching. And I'll sprinkle some on their bedding as well. 
It's going to be cold the next few days or so, more seaonable than the very mild weather we've been having. So I want to make sure they are all getting plenty and staying warm.

Also, Southern States has a goat and sheep block that is 24%, think this would be a good addition to keep in his shelter? If he doesn't like it I can always give it to the girls. I've bought them in the past for the girls and they LOVED them. 
I'm not sure about Mr. SUPER TURD though...too picky for his own good!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

No problem....and thank you for the compliment... you are appreciated as well.. :hi5: :wink:

Oh good... sounds great....that he ate that much...goats I think don't like the fine crumbles because it gets up their nose and it is very irritating....
B vitamins help appetite and the Probiotics are making his belly feel nice and healthy.... along with the b vitamin.....

Good idea by dusting him and the bedding ....those critters are nasty....

Yes ...feeding them well... will help keep them warm....and plenty of bedding... When I have a Goat ...that is really down and it is really cold... I put out a heat lamp for them....I know... I spoil them...but I want to make sure ..the goat doesn't get to cold....when it is sick..... The cold weather burns off what they eat.... so I illuminate that...only for the ill goats... then when they are well again ...I take the heat lamp out.... :greengrin:

I don't use any blocks so... I do not know what to tell you there....



> I'm not sure about Mr. SUPER TURD though...too picky for his own good!


 LOL :wink:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks again Pam  
It is soooo nasty out here tonight, old man winter definitely showed his ugly side! This is our coldest/nastiest night of the season. We have some snow, probably only a half inch, but all the rain we had froze, so everything is crunchy or slippery! The winds have been howling and it feels like it's in the single digits. YUCK!

I seperated the twins from the buck tonight at feeding time. They have a corner in the shelter, and the buck can come'go as he likes. He ate about 2 lbs of grain today! And we put a flake of alfalfa in the hay feeder for him, so I am sure he ate that. 
I'm hoping to get him up to 3lbs soon. I think that should be enough for him along with the alfalfa. Now I just need to find more alfalfa before we run out, I really would like to find it for less than $9.00 a bale! 
This summer we are buying alfalfa during 2nd cutting I am not waiting until my husband decides it's time to get it. He just doesnt' seem to understand the best hay and best deals come DURING THE SUMMER LOL


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Okay so we seperated last night, I went out late to feed this morning since none of the goats were stirring yet.
He finished his grain last night, but didn't eat much of the alfalfa at all! I fed this morning and he didn't eat it all, still had quite a bit left, mostly crumb stuff. I flipped the alfalfa over pulled it a part a bit hoping he'd be interested. Left the boys in since it's nasty outside, they were content with the hay I gave them after their breakfast. 
But SUPER TURD <LOL> has been walking around outside, acting like he's sooo neglected. I'm giving him about 20 minutes more before we turn the boys out. It's 17 right now but with the wind chill it feels like it's -0 -to about 4 degrees. So yeah, I am in no rush for anyone to be turned out!

He used to gobble up the alfalfa, now he won't hardly touch it. Nothing wrong with it, and it's the same bale he was eating before. If he doesn't finish it I guess I'll take it out and give it to the girls...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*



> Thanks again Pam


 HeHe.. :laugh:

Brrr.....sounds really cold.... be careful not to get hurt.... if it is slippery.. :shocked:

I know the Alfalfa prices are so high...but it is the best to help them to stay warm and to put weight on.... Hope you can find some for a bit less....

I hear ya...summer it is cheaper per ton...that is when we stack up the hay or at least fall...but we try to buy it before they raise up the price for winter..... :hi5:

Hmm...not eating much Alfalfa.... He may have a tummy ache...... get a temp ..to make sure... he doesn't have something going on there.... Is he still getting Probiotic paste and B shots? If his temp is normal ...I would stop the grain ...yeah.. I know.. but if he is getting a sour tummy... we need to back off ....and not give him as much grain when he gets back to eating the Alfalfa....... he needs Hay to keep his levels with feed intake right.... to much grain and not enough hay... can create issues.....

Are you sure... it isn't to cold for super turd...especially with the wind? :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Thanks Pam, I didn't take his temp, but he's acting just fine, in fact, since we turned the twins out, he's been harrassing them - he's quite playful with them this morning. They want to eat hay, so he goes in, chases them out and tries to play, it's quite funny watching them LOL All the twins think about is eating and all the goat who NEEDS to be eating can think about is playing...sheesh!

We didn't give him any more probiotic paste yesterday, I wasnt' sure how often he should get it, so we were going to give him a little every other day for 2 more doses. I don't think he got a B1 shot yesterday, I'll ask my husband. He was doing the dusting and stuff on the goats while I rigged up the corner for the twins to sleep in, and got them fed. 
We had been giving it daily though.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

LOL... :laugh: sounds like he is full of the dickens....and feeling good...that is wonderful...but not eating much...maybe he just isn't hungry.... :wink:

Probiotic can be given daily if you want to...but you don't have to.... I thought he had a upset tummy.. tormenting the boys...HeHe....he sounds fine... :wink: :thumb: :laugh:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Yep he's full of himself that's for sure! He ate all the grain we put out for him last night, but didn't eat much of his breakfast again today. I am not sure how much hay hey ate since my husband did hay for the boys last night while I fed the girls. I did give him the grain and I had put out 4 cups <2 1/2 cups = 1lb>. 
It's sunny but COLD, they all want to be out in the sun so I put some of the grass hay he likes around their favorite tree so they can be outside to eat. Of course he just wanted to fuss with the boys once they were turned out LOL

Just wish I could get him to eat more, he did seem to look a little 'full' this morning compared to the previous days, so I am thinking he ate plenty of hay last night.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

Maybe he prefers his grain in the evening.....try feeding him a bit more at that time and slowly increase it ....to see if he will eat it then...

If you are putting it out free choice ....that is probably why... he doesn't woof it all down... If you keep the excitement of getting his grain... he will or should eat more.....

Sun is good.... :thumbup:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - updated w/new video*

It's been a crazy day, I won't get into details... 
But I didn't spend any time in the pen today at all  However, I'll be out in the morning resuming my usual schedule.

I thought I'd give an idea of what I am dealing with. When I said he doesn't look as nice I wasn't kidding, he lost a lot of weight  Of course he has a wild winter coat that also makes him look well wild! But still...

This was 4 days before he ate the grain that made him sick. He looked great IMO


















Far left...


















This was taken on the 6th and IMO not much has changed, other than he does walk and stand much better. He still gets a little off on the hind leg, but he's not showing any signs of deteriorating again <he's been off of B1 this weekend>.










It's amazing how fast an animal can go downhill....I mean he was perfectly fine and healthy until that bag of grain. 
I'll give him more probiotics tomorrow <I have been giving them every other day>, how much more should I give? Think he should be okay without it now? 
If he doesn't show improvement in the next week or two I'll have a fecal run to rule out anything that might be ailing him, can't cocci do this? I have no experience with it....
He's eating up his nightly grain/alfalfa but not his breakfast. I may try feeding him his breakfast with the twins to see if the 'competition' gets him interested. Then keep the evening grain the same.

I still wonder what would be more beneficial....calf manna or something equal to it, <animax I think is what it's called>, a protein block he can chew on, or ? Knowing my luck he'll protest the animax LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - look how much condition he los*

That is so sad... I am sorry 

You can stop the probiotics now.... yes he should be OK.... his Rumen should be good by now....

Yes... get a fecal for cocci and worms....both can be triggered by stress and Lord knows... he has been through a lot.....



> He's eating up his nightly grain/alfalfa but not his breakfast. I may try feeding him his breakfast with the twins to see if the 'competition' gets him interested. Then keep the evening grain the same.


 :thumbup:

Not sure on the feed ....I'd give him something that he will eat....but of coarse you will have to figure out what it is.... Maybe try calf starter...it is high in protein... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - look how much condition he los*

My husband thinks he's gained some weight since I took that pic. As soon as I get a chance I'll try to get updated pictures. 
He's still being a SUPER TURD about grain. He's still not eating all of his breakfast, so I think we'll offer less in the morning, and more in the evening. He still gets his alfalfa, but last night my husband gave the twins a flake of some hay they love - he put it in the pallet wall, and instead of eating his alfalfa, he was eating the grass hay.... Figures!
Hopefully we can get him looking good soon! We bought a bag of the mineral that our girls used to get and LOVED, and he seemed to like it, so I think that will help a great deal.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - look how much condition he los*

Love to see the updated pics..that would be Awesome... if he is gaining like that... he is doing well... :thumb:

As long as he eats some grain.. that is a plus...

Not wanting the Alfalfa but grass hay ...hmm... :scratch: that is like the choice of ...a Prime rib vs a hamburger.... HAve you made sure that the Alfalfa doesn't smell moldy or off? kinda seems odd....my goats will always choose the Alfalfa before anything else... :shocked:

Glad he likes the minerals....he needs them... :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Help! Our buck is sick - look how much condition he los*

I haven't been able to get updated pics of him, because he's always following me, no matter where I am, he's a brat.

However, he seemed to be walking a little more 'off' today  He's acting his usual self, just a little too loose on the back end. We turned the girls out in the front yard, so we let him and the twins out so they could run in the big pen. He did do a lot of running and was kicking up his heels.

We did give him B1 as a precaution, and more probios. He hasn't had them in a while I can't remember when the last dose was I'll have to look.

I am going to call the vet tomorrow, see if I can get him looked at. I believe they will allow me to bring him in vs. farm visit. However, I don't know if these vets are very knowledgeable about goats, I'm hoping they are. Maybe they can figure out what is up with him. I can collect a fecal before I go, and maybe they can draw blood, but I wouldn't know what they would test for? Any ideas?

He gets about 2lbs of grain a day, and he seems to be eating hay pretty well. Could something like cocci cause this? He's gaining a little weight, but still no where near where he was before he got sick. His wild hairdo doesn't help the matter either! 
I also have trouble getting him to eat minerals, I'm going to put some more out for them tomorrow. I don't have an extra mineral feeder, so I have to put it in the corner of their feed trough.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - going to get the vet involved 1/24/12*

I called the vet. He ran through some possible ideas, and said we could bring him in if we want to have them look at him, so I called back and made an appt for tomorrow at 3:30pm. It's $36 for an exam, I figure that's probably a fair price? I think the vet might be able to get a better idea of what's going on with him if he saw him and not just going off of what I am telling him.

But this will be my husband's call too, because no way can I take him by myself. We don't have a trailer yet <planning to get one next month>, so he would have to be in the back of the SUV <OH FUN!!!>, I can see this being quite an experience....to say the least.

I meant to add that I will also be getting a fecal done, I like this clinic, so glad I found them! Their fecals are $18, and everywhere in the town nearest us is $30+.
They are only about 15 minute drive in the county north of us.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - going to get the vet involved 1/25/12*

We took him to the vet today. He is 101lbs. He's heavier than we thought he was, but probably 10-15lbs underweight, maybe more? 
The vet drew blood and is going to have his blood tested and test for CAE, they did a skin scrape and found tiny lice on him. He took several samples, and there wasn't much, but there is some there, just very hard to see. 
I brought in a sample for a fecal, and he DOES have a worm load.

The vet and I agree, we think the feed change and stress of getting sick from it caused the worm load to worsen, and it could possibly be what is wrong with him. Since we wormed with Ivermectin injectible, and repeated dose a week later, he wants us to worm with Cydectin. I'll also dust them all again.

He wants us to start with the worming, and not do anything else until we see what the blood work says, should know Mon or Tues at the latest since they have to send it off for better results on livestock.

We don't have Cydectin, so I may see if I can buy some from a friend, just enough to dose him, the two bucklings he is with, and another doe. I don't want to worm the pregnant girls until they kid, by then I hope to have our own bottle of Cydectin. 
Hopefully this will see results. My husband about had a cow with the $200 vet bill, and I won't hear the end of it for the next week! But I know we were beyond the point of needing a vet involved, and if I was going to take a fecal sample I might as well get him checked out, because the vet thinks he has a few things working against him <goat polo then the worms, then the lice, and possibly an imbalance somewhere>.

So there's my update. Fingers crossed that he will be okay! BTW, he was such a GREAT BOY at the vet, I was so happy with his behavior, sure we had to drag him through the office to get weighed <LOL>, but once there he was greeted by a young girl who got to pet him, then he dragged me back through the office to the back where he was examined LOL Thankfully he didn't smell like a buck, and he made some more friends in some kids back there


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Oh wow...I am sorry he is kinda going a bit backwards...glad you took him to the vet...and are running tests .... and treating him for the worms he has...along with the lice.... Poor dude.... Hopefully the blood test will give more answers and I pray.. it is a simple fix.... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Thanks Pam, it's good to know he has worms, but I'm frustrated at the same time since we wormed him with Ivermectin twice  The vet said that Cydectin <moxidectin> is about the only thing effective against them. I can't remember what kind of worm, I know it started with a 'T' and was along the lines of strongyles but that it wasn't grouped into any specific species.

We don't think the lice is a big problem, but could be adding to it. I'll dust them since the weather is going to get cold again soon, wish I could spray them down with permectrin II spray! As soon as the weather is nice I certainly will. But tomorrow the dust will have to be good enough for now. I'll also look into getting some vetRX, and I'll rub some of that on their itchy spots.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Sorry to hear about the vet but now you can really get him on the road to receive. 
If you have the permethrin you can apply it down his back like frontline for a dog. You don't have to drench them in it IMO. I just take a needless syringe and put it in a line down the backbone. Works well for me. 
What type of Ivermectin were you using administered how and at what dose? 
The Clydectin is not safe for the pregnant girls so do not use it on them.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*



freedomstarfarm said:


> Sorry to hear about the vet but now you can really get him on the road to receive.
> If you have the permethrin you can apply it down his back like frontline for a dog. You don't have to drench them in it IMO. I just take a needless syringe and put it in a line down the backbone. Works well for me.
> What type of Ivermectin were you using administered how and at what dose?
> The Clydectin is not safe for the pregnant girls so do not use it on them.


Thanks so much! I agree, and while my husband can complain about the bill amount, I know we did the right thing taking him in. I was suspicious of a worm load, but didn't know what kind of worm we were dealing with.

We used a generic to Ivermectin called Norimectin <spelling?>, it's the same thing as Ivermectin Injectible, My husband gave it to him by injection, and I think he said he gave 1cc. If he had told me at the time he was worming I would have told him to give him at least 1.5cc....
Everyone was wormed.

I don't have any more permectrin II, just the powder, but I can get some. I really like that stuff, it worked well with keeping the bugs off of them this past summer.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Yea you are right and in the future if you use the Ivermectin or generic equilivent dose should be stronger. Hopefully someone has the Clydectin to get him wormed well.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Gosh Candice, sorry you're buckling is still not back to par yet. Hope the ivermectin/cydectin do the trick! We went to a conference this fall and learned that wormers are becoming ineffective due to resistance. The pharmaceutical companies can't develop new wormers fast enough to combat the boogers anymore.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*



amylawrence said:


> Gosh Candice, sorry you're buckling is still not back to par yet. Hope the ivermectin/cydectin do the trick! We went to a conference this fall and learned that wormers are becoming ineffective due to resistance. The pharmaceutical companies can't develop new wormers fast enough to combat the boogers anymore.


Thanks Amy, I know it's so scary, I was thinking about that on the way home. We've been having issues with the strongle especially anything that is mostly Boer  I wish my kids could show a different breed of goat in 4-H that is more resistant to parasites.

I do believe he had a few things working against him, and it started with the stress on his system from the feed change. He was perfectly fine until that day, then it all escillated from there.

If it's not the worms then hopefully the blood test will tell us something. 
I worry about the other goats too, especially the doe we recently weaned, her kids really took a lot out of her and she is really thin. I can worm her with Cydectin or quest thankfully, but my other girls have to wait since they are pregnant, but they all seem fine. But I can't wait until they kid, as I am sure they have some of these worms, and I'm sure the ivermectin didn't do much for them either 
At the same time I wonder if it would hurt to give them a good dose of safeguard for three days. I do have a couple of tubes of safeguard....
I think my husband underdoses them too, he did the ivermectin and always wants to do the minimum dosage, and it drives me crazy. he wants to go by cattle/sheep, and I tell him he has to go by GOATS <not on the label>. I think we'd have a lesser time of it if he left the dosages to me.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

How come your vet didn't set you up with a Cydectin product to worm him with before you left? I have heard a good product to kill lice with is CyLence. I recently had some shipped to me, but haven't tried it yet.
The dose I have found for goats is 4cc/100lbs down the top line. And it looks like you should repeat in 14 days to catch hatching eggs.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*



Tenacross said:


> How come your vet didn't set you up with a Cydectin product to worm him with before you left? I have heard a good product to kill lice with is CyLence. I recently had some shipped to me, but haven't tried it yet.
> The dose I have found for goats is 4cc/100lbs down the top line. And it looks like you should repeat in 14 days to catch hatching eggs.
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5


Thanks I was thinking of Cylence today! A breeder friend had told me back in the summer she was going to use it, I'll have to try it! At this point anything that will help keep them healthy.

I don't think he had any wormers on hand, but told me we could get Cydectin at any of the local farm stores, and listed off a few places. I just don't have the $$ for it this week to be honest. This is our bill week and then the vet bill, and some other things we paid. We really didn't expect the vet bill to be so much, I figured $200 would be vet bill and meds. 
The smallest bottle of Cydectin I've seen has been $70 I believe. 
I think we'll use Quest, and when I get my payment in I'll get some Cydectin. I can worm the buck, the empty doe, twin bucklings now with Quest, then by the time the does kid in 4-6 weeks I can worm everyone with Cydectin.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Hi, I haven't read the whole thread, but just wanted to mention that Quest (moxidectin) has been associated with some rather serious side effects in horses and I don't use it for that reason. Might not apply to goats, but I suggest checking it out to be sure.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*



zebradreams07 said:


> Hi, I haven't read the whole thread, but just wanted to mention that Quest (moxidectin) has been associated with some rather serious side effects in horses and I don't use it for that reason. Might not apply to goats, but I suggest checking it out to be sure.


Thanks, I will keep that in mind. I know I've heard some things about quest plus with horses, but haven't heard anything on regular quest.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

so glad to hear he will be on the road to recovery-it is so hard to tell sometimes, so many different senarios and symptoms are all similar. You have fought a brave battle with him and you got him to a "good" point. I bet with the vet's follow up care he will be back to him self in no time!

You are a good goatie momma


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*



Burns Branch Boers said:


> so glad to hear he will be on the road to recovery-it is so hard to tell sometimes, so many different senarios and symptoms are all similar. You have fought a brave battle with him and you got him to a "good" point. I bet with the vet's follow up care he will be back to him self in no time!
> 
> You are a good goatie momma


Thanks BBB It's definitely been a tough road! We really thought if there were worms the ivermectin would have taken care of it. Now I worry about the girls! They all seem fine, but the doe we weaned a few weeks ago is so thin <her kids really wore her down>, I worry about her having a worm load too, so we'll be treating her, and her twin boys with the buck. I just am too afraid to hurt the girls who are pregnant, so I think I'll give them safeguard now, and cydectin or quest after kidding.
Hopefully we can get him back to full health, he's a good natured buck even if he is a pain in the butt! <he's a drama-king haha> he's nice looking when he's fit and healthy!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

I am still praying for him...and hope the worms issue get under control..... :hug: ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - took him to the vet today 1/26/11 UP*

Thanks Pam I appreciate it  
We got everyone wormed today. The vet called back and told me I could use Quest, so we got Quest Plus, he told me to double the dose so give him 200lbs worth of wormer. We also wormed another doe, plus we did have a little bit of the regular Quest left from last year when we used it, so my husband wormed the nearly 4mo boys with that. 
We wormed the 3 pregnant girls with 350lbs worth of Safeguard, They are each a little over 100lbs being pregnant, we'll repeat dose tomorrow and Sun.

He told us to put him on LA200 every other day for a little while. His temp was normal - for him it runs a little over 103.

His blood work came back in, and wish I had asked if they could email it to me, I may do that on Monday.
He is CAE NEGATIVE.
But he is anemic. His iron is low, his protien and magnesium <sp?> is also low. He's not absorbing the nutrients he needs, but his liver and kidney readings were normal. So we think he's not absorbing because of parasites. 
I put out 1.25lbs of grain for him, and plenty of his favorite hay. I'll go check on him in a little while to make sure he is okay, and doesn't need any more hay. If he ate all the grain, I'll put a little more out for him so he has access through the night - I typically leave 2lbs for him each not.

I wonder how long it will be before we may see improvement? I'm guessing we should see improvement in his appetite by Monday or early next week?

I am going to try and get him some more alfalfa next week, I might have found someone with alfalfa worth buying and not too expensive <I won't buy if it's stemy>.

I feel we got a lot accomplished this afternoon, but know it may or may not make him better.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

Keep us posted. We all learn with you.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

Thanks, a learning experience indeed it has been!

I checked on him about 30 minutes or so ago, and he ate some hay, some grain, but didn't really put a big dent in either one. His lack of appetite does concern me, but as long as he is eating something, and acting normal otherwise, it calms my nerves.
I'll have my husband check on him when he gets home from work in the morning. Fingers crossed he starts eating better and his health improves overall.

Tomorrow we are dusting everyone since it's all I have for external bugs right now. I may go ahead and order Cylence early next week.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2012)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

Don't know about the B1
Do know that Penn g is a long acting antibiotic, my vet said if I was giving it more than once every 3 days to stop, IDK


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2012)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

I used that Cylence last summer I liked it. Are you dusting with DE?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*



Sideplaner said:


> I used that Cylence last summer I liked it. Are you dusting with DE?


Thanks, I've heard a lot of good things about Cylence.
Right now I am using a poweder that has permetherin in it, the stuff you dust chickens/chicken pens/cows/etc. We've dusted twice, and going to dust again tomorrow if weather co operates <rain and possibly snow showers>. 
I need to order a few things from Jeffers, so planned to order Cylence too when I get a payment next week. 
When it's warm out, I usually spray them down really good with Permectrin II that I dilute in spray bottles, worked great for bugs, flies, ticks, etc over the summer and fall. But if Cylence works just as well, then I'd rather not have to put them through having to be sprayed down, then the kids not being able to touch them for a few days after that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

:hug: :thumbup:

Glad everyone is wormed....

103.5 temp is normal....

Oh thank God... he is CAE negative... that is so good to hear.... :hug: :hi5:

Once you get the parasites under control... I agree.. he should absorb things better... that is a plus ..that his kidneys are OK....
Once the worms are under control... he should feel better and start eating better...I agree...just make sure... you give him vit B complex and probiotics a day after the last treatment....to rebuild his Rumen....

That is a good idea to have the hay free choice hay ..it will help him keep warm.... whenever he wants to nibble... Just be careful.. not to give him to much grain....

Alfalfa is the best thing for him...he doesn't have to eat much of it ..to benefit from it.... I hope you can find some....

Time will tell...I know it has been terrible all the way....but now that he has started treatment for what is ailing him.......we should see improvement soon...

At minimum ...Dusting is smart...lice can also drain them....  :hug:


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*



Sideplaner said:


> Don't know about the B1
> Do know that Penn g is a long acting antibiotic, my vet said if I was giving it more than once every 3 days to stop, IDK


There are two types of penicillin commonly found. One is short acting and another is long acting. It will say on the lable.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

I've been following your ordeal here, but didn't have anything to add. Please know I'm praying for your boy. You've been through alot with this guy, I'm so glad he was cae-. Hang in there, sounds like he's getting better. Do you have any red cell? That helped my kids get back on track a couple of years ago when I had a bad cocci problem.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

Thanks so much Di I appreciate it! We don't have red cell  I was going to buy some yesterday but it was about $24, and didn't take that much cash with me. I was worried about not giving any, but the vet told me not to give him too much if we gave it to him. He seems about the same today, picks at his feed and eats and picks at hay, drinks water, fusses with his buddies. It's really wet out from all the rain we've had, but the sun is shining and they are all loving it, though it's windy, so it feels more like 30 than 40.

I'll give him probios when we go out to dust everyone in a little while. Hopefully the wind settles down so it doesn't make it too difficult to dust. I cleaned the stalls and the front half of the sleeping area out. I normally don't pull the bedding out of the sleeping area until spring. But it's so pretty out... I use barn lime when I clean, and I sprinkled some of the powder I dust with over the bedding. 
I don't think the lice are a big issue <the louce he found was dead>, but at this point I am going to treat them as if it were a big problem.

I'll try to get some pictures, as pretty as it is, I have the itch to get outside with the camera.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

Anemia...can cause weakness....I'd invest in the red cell...you don't have to give him very much and... it will help him rebuild his blood ....which is very critical.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

He wasn't much different at all, but I don't expect any rapid improvements. He seemed to be eating and didn't leave the feeder/hay area in his shelter when we were out there <usually he hollers at us and walks the fence until we go in, then he goes back to his feeder/hay>.
We gave him some probios, and I dusted everyone. We don't actually know if they still have any lice on them, the one the vet found was dead, so we may not have a major issue with it, but we'll see. It was cool out today high 42 with a wind chill about 10 degrees colder, but the sun felt so good everyone was enjoying it


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

:thumbup: :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

He ate his breakfast like he was starving LOL Okay well for him that means he ate faster <he's always been a slow eater>. He still left the crumbs, but even when we bought him in early Sept we were using this grain and he refused the crumbs. Still he ate the other stuff and had it gone by the time I finished feeding the girls. I don't think my husband left him as much grain as I normally leave out for him overnight, that could be why.
He's getting a clover mix ha, and we have a really green grass hay that is rich with clover, so I'll see if my husband wants to mix some of it into the grass hay we always offer them. Can't give it straight as some of the bales are too rich with clover & made one of our does sick - but mixed with other hay has worked well.

It's really windy out today, but if I get a chance I'll get some pictures and/or video of him. I want the kids to take the girls in the front yard to graze in a little while, and when the girls go up there, I let the boys out into the big pen to run around, etc.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

He sounds like.. his appetite is getting better...I am glad to hear that.... :greengrin: he is a trooper....and a survivor... I see why you love him so.... :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/27/12 Blood work came back t*

He seemed to have a better appetite today :wink: Around noon I had my kids take the does up front to graze, and let the boys out into the main pen. They were running and playing, kicking up their heels, I wish I had brought my camera out for it.
I finally did get the camera out, and of course all he wanted to do was follow me LOL
My son grabbed the rest of the animal crackers from the cabinet - and I had my daughter feed him and his buddies some and get them running/walking so I can get a little bit of video.
Might want to turn the volume down because of the static from the wind, and not the greatest quality/focusing job, heh....but better than nothing

He wants those cookies LOL

__
https://flic.kr/p/6785768447


__
https://flic.kr/p/6785891445

He got some cookies, but some is NEVER enough 

__
https://flic.kr/p/6785891445

Here are a few pics:
He was being a big lovey brat with my daughter. I dusted everyone so you can only pet him under his neck/chest









Someone needs to let him know that baby dolls aren't edible.



























I think we may keep the red buckling and possibly sell him later when we can have a wether buddy for him









The other buckling in with them is all buck haha...so he thinks. He's cute though 









After I took the video my daughter gave him a cup of grain and he ate about half or so, and then we put a flake of their favorite hay out.
When I fed him this evening I think I gave him 3 cups, and he was really digging in, acting like he had a better appetite.

My husband did worm him again today, and we gave him another dose of LA200.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

Oh wow...he is doing a lot better... that is terrific.....  :leap:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

He is looking alot better! He is such a sweet boy!!! :clap: :leap:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

Thanks  He is eating a little bit better, he was definitely wanting his breakfast this morning. I put 1lb of feed in his feeder this morning < 2 1/2 cups>, and he ate a little over half, which is fine, and better than what he'd been eating the past mornings. His buddies get to eat what he doesn't finish, so nothing is wasted 
We still put his buddies in the back of the shelter at night so he can eat what he wants of the grain and hay we put out for him. We'll start giving him a little of the greener clover hay mixed in with the other hay.

It's another pretty sunny, but breezy day, and the goats are soaking it up. He is out fussing with the boys as usual, trying to get them to play when all they think about is eating LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

HeHe... :laugh: he is really looking good....and very active.... :thumb: :clap:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

Well while I have a couple of minutes I thought I'd update. He isn't doing any worse, maybe a tad bit better. He ate most of his breakfast, left the crumbs he doesn't like and I gave him just a tad bit more than 1lb, so he probably ate about a pound.
I put a clover mix hay in with their grass hay in the feeder and some out next to their favorite tree in the sun, and they were running back and forth LOL

We're trying to sell one of the bucklings he's with, and plan to keep one so he isn't lonely as I think he'll totally freak out. 
I'd love to sell the white one, he 'thinks' he is 'Da Man!' LOL!!! He definitely needs a girlfriend.
The red buckling is so much more calmer, and he gets along great with our buck.

I've decided, we get this guy going good, I may let him breed our empty doe at some point, and sell him. The only reason we kept him honestly was my son wanted to show him in the fair this summer. We'll see what his babies are like at the end of the month, and decide if we'll keep him through fall breeding.
But first things first, getting him better.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

Glad to hear... he is a bit better...keep up the good work.... :hi5: :hug: :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 1/29 Video and pictures*

Well, not much change, he's still not walking any better  Tomorrow after I feed in the morning I'm going to tie him up so I can get a good look at his feet. He walks on the heel of one foot, I know his feet aren't too long... But it's hard to look when someone is holding him because he wiggles/moves trying to rub or chew on whoever is holding him <he's a brat>.

BTW, I kept thinking he was 11 months...he just turned 10 months old.

My husband wormed him again today with Quest Plus. I'm going to get more Quest Plus so that we can worm our girls with it as soon as each one kids. I'll also worm his buddies with it this week <We used regular Quest before>.
I really need to get on a good worming program with effective wormers, but also need to find a way to get the most accurate weights. 
We can use our house scale on smaller goats, but not the adults.

I'm really not sure what to do from here. He's eating better, still picky, but he still gets 1lb in the morning 1lb in the evening of grain. He'll eat what he wants in the morning, mostly everything except for some crumbs, and he still eats everything he is offered at night.
We're giving him more clover rich hay now <worked them up to getting more>, he loves it, and we also offer grass mix at all times.

He looks like he's putting a little weight on, but I just don't know, any ideas how long I should wait to see results? His limp has me concerned. I've been watching him and he looks like he's uncomfortable <thus why tomorrow I'll check his feet really good>. 
I don't think there is anything else the vet can do for him. He did inspect his leg when we took him and didn't notice anything unusual and he was picking it up and bending it/stretching it/etc.

Otherwise he spends his days playing with his buddies - they have so much fun chasing each other around and playing. He is definitely dominant and made sure they know he is boss. They get all excited and 'giddy' when I bring out the clover hay, and he lets them know he gets first dibs LOL He's a good boy and shares with them


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 2/6*

I use Ivomec cattle injectable down the throat and Valbezen...but with the Valbezen ...not given to preggo's.... At 1cc per 33 lbs...

He has been through a lot...he may be that way for the rest of his life....unfortunately.... because it has been so long... 
His limp may be caused by ..being slammed or playing to rough....or even getting his foot caught somewhere.... or twisted it in a hole...when running around... Also...Check between his toes... to make sure ...he hasn't picked up a rock or a stick between them.....

Be careful with the clover rich hay....it can bloat the goats... well I know fresh clover does...

We invested in one of those big... digital scales... cost a lot but... it was so worth it..... :wink:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 2/6*

Thanks Pam I was going to ask about Valbazen. We wormed him with Quest Plus the day after we took him to the vet <Fri>, then wormed him again that following Mon, then we wormed him yesterday <a week later>. The vet said to dose him 200lbs. worth of Quest Plus since he was 101lbs. He's put on a tiny bit of weight, but bothers me about his back legs. Something isn't right and nobody seems to know what else can be done for him. I am thinking he may be ruined 
This issue with walking did start about 3-4 days after the issue with the feed change. I wonder if he got weak from being sick, and jumped the creek and possibly hurt his legs or back? They jump the creek to go back in the woods, and back then they went back every day. I usually have something they can walk across - usually a pallet that doesn't have any spaces between the boards will fit just fine, but I had to remove it since we were having a lot of rain = creek rising.
I know the last time he went back there, he came back with muddy, wet back legs, and that's when I really became alarmed and I believe that's when I posted the very first video.

I didn't see anything on his feet at all when I checked today - going to check again tomorrow as I didn't have time to trim the boys feet today. There is moisture between the toes from the wet ground, but didn't notice anything that could be an issue - no rot or scald, etc.
I'll spray his feet with some soapy bleach water tomorrow when I trim so I can get a better look.

Since his worming yesterday I've noticed a HUGE appetite change. Usually his buddies are locked up, and I pour 3 cups of feed into the feeder - he eats usually about 2 cups worth. 
Then I go feed the girls real quick <which is easy since they are all eating seperate - no bullying! I only have 4 girls and 3 are getting ready to kid soon> well, then I pour in another cup, and turn the boys loose so they can have their breakfast. 
This morning he ate ALL 3 cups! OMG I couldn't believe it, and he was ready to plow me down to get to the hay I was putting in the feeder.
Evening feeding time he acted like he was starving again.

We watch how much clover hay they get, but so far everyone seems to do really well with it. I need to get a mineral feeder that I can also put some baking soda in. I give them some in the mornings with grass hay mixed in, then some in the evenings. Through the day and night they have grass hay. The pregnant girls get alfalfa pellets - but can't get the buck to eat them


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 2/6*

Thought I'd write another update real quick.
He has a very good appetite now! He has been clearing out his breakfast, and digging into the hay, and doing the same with evening grain. I had to fix their shelter a bit, and of course he followed me around grabbing at my jacket, playing with my pantleg, and generally just putting his nose in the way, heh. When I was about to leave, he started rearing and acting playfully - not in a threatning way. He's never really done that, so it did take me by surprise. He always plays with his buddies though, I love watching them.

I trimmed everyone's feet yesterday, and didn't notice anything, in fact, his feet were the best of the 3 boys. He's walking on the heel of his hind left, makes his foot spread apart, and I am not sure he'll ever get over this. But we'll see what happens. I read somewhere that it can take months for a goat to recover from so many issues. 
I also sprayed permectrin II down his neck and back, and on his shoulders. I ran out of powder, and figure it would probably be more affective to use the spray on decent days. I did treat everyone and will do it again next week.
I plan to get Cylence, but will have to order it since no one local has it.

I plan to have another fecal done too, just to make sure we've taken care of the worms. With his appetite I am sure we must have, but I won't be satisfied until we do the fecal. We'll most likely do it a week from Monday - 2 weeks after his last worming.

I'm hoping to get some video maybe tomorrow, we'll see.. depends on the cold, it's supposed to be in the upper 20s, and then around 11 tomorrow night! It would be the coldest night of the season for us, oh fun <NOT!>

I forgot to add that he seems to be putting on some weight, not much but a little. He still has a bony butt, but he's getting a bit of a belly, but it's a start.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 2/6*

Your welcome... :thumb:

Wow he has had a lot of wormer...after one week of treatment I'd get a fecal on him to see where he is at...worms and cocci in case.... be sure to give probiotics ...

Hmm...if he fell wrong sometime around when it all began.....he may of thrown his back off or cracked it.....I wonder if they have goat chiropractors....to check him out.... Even getting an xray of his spine may let you know what if anything may of happened if it wasn't polio....

Glad he is eating better.. good to hear :thumb: :hi5: 

Good that you are watching the amount of clover hay...

I have noticed that some of my goats won't eat the Alfalfa pellets but they love the Alfalfa hay....kinda weird....

I like the permectrin II better than Cylence ..the permectrin seems to not work for the goats anymore....



> I'm hoping to get some video maybe tomorrow, we'll see.. depends on the cold, it's supposed to be in the upper 20s, and then around 11 tomorrow night! It would be the coldest night of the season for us, oh fun <NOT!>


 :wink: :thumbup:

Glad he is putting on weight that is good to hear as well..... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck is sick - Update 2/6*

Thanks Pam, yep I agree he has had a lot of wormer  Hopefully this will take care of his issue, but I'll definitely have the fecal done and pray he doesn't need anything else as far as wormers go.

Here's something that was totally left out of all of this, and OMG I can't believe I never included it, but we really figured it was goat polio/worms only --- the feed DID do something to him that much we're positive, especially since he was not the only one affected, he was just the only one to get extremely sick.
Okay, so this started on the 14th of Dec. That very same evening, the buck was feeling good, and was wanting to breed a doe. My husband knew I wanted to breed this doe for fall kids, but he is an 'act before he thinks' person.. it's frustrating, sometimes I feel like I have 4 kids not 3.
So he went out without telling me and held the doe so the buck could reach and breed her. He told me that the buck fell backwards, but didn't fall on anything, or fall hard from what he said.
I just wonder if he injured himself, and on top of jumping back/forth over the small creek that this did hurt him somehow, along with the stress of the grain change, then the worm load.

So now I am really contemplating injury. It just seems like one thing after another. But the limping did start that weekend, and this happened on a Wed.
I'll call the vet on Monday and see what they charge to do an x-ray.
BTW, the vet did inspect his leg when we took him, he stretched it forward/backward, bent it, put pressure on it, did some pressing on his hips, back, etc, and he didnt' act like anything was bothering him.

His appetite is much better now, he's eating all his grain, occassionally leaving some of the crumbs. I feed him before I feed his buddies, and the last couple of days he's been eagerly awaiting me to pour their food so he can have some LOL Thankfully they are SUPER FAST eaters so they can get their food.

He seems to be walking a little better, but his back and his legs just aren't right.

Here's a silly video of him taken with my kids camera earlier today. He couldn't understand why I was on the outside of the pen and not inside LOL 
It's nothing great, but the only one I had of him actually walking away a bit. I was getting video of the 'before' on the shelter since we'll be finishing it soon<it's very snug inside despite being tarps, some OSB and pallets LOL>.

__
https://flic.kr/p/6859787117

He's never seen this little camera before so he was very curious <he tried to eat it in the video LOL>









His wild winter coat doesn't help his appearance LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Your welcome... :greengrin:

He is so cute..... 

Injuries can happen .... he may of hurt himself just enough at that time... that he didn't really have an issue...but may of twisted it later...somewhere... just enough to cause further injury..... Could be wrong...but an x-ray may help determine this or not....one way or another... If he has any inflammation on the spine..that may make it to where.. he is having an issue....

It is good he still has good appetite... :wink:

From the video... he looks good and is walking a lot better than he did ...when it all started....

He is cute and is wanting to get to you real bad ...from the other side of the fence.. LOL.... :laugh:

The shelter looks great~!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Thanks Pam! I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see what they'd charge to do an xray. 
He is really sweet in a buck kind of way LOL  I can't get any kind of pictures or video of him in the pen, because he is all over me, you'd think he was a lost puppy LOL 
Thanks for the comments on the shelter, it does it's job for now, and is plenty big for all 3 boys. Hoping to get it finished and take the tarps down soon.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Good luck...hope the answer is there for you....and again ...you are always welcome...keep us updated.... and yes... he looks like a real sweet boy.... :hug: ray:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Gosh he is such a beautiful boy! I hope he can make a full recovery for you. You are working so hard at it too--doing all the right things. :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Thanks  He's such a brat, LOL He's still eating up his grain, and was licking up the crumbs happily  He has such a WILD winter coat it makes him look so rugged, heh. I can definitely feel a difference on him, hopefully another few weeks he'll be looking good weight wise. 
Praying that an x-ray won't cost too much, as here we are again - wanting to get the barn done LOL But I also need to get a copy of his blood work and CAE negative papers, I forgot all about getting a copy of it!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Yes... get those copies.... I too ...hope the xrays aren't going to cost that much.... :hug:

That is super... he is licking up the crumbs as well...LOL  :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck - 2/11 Update, pic and video*

Okay so I wanted to revive this thread.
Big Bang is still doing well, but vet thinks permanent damage from being down and down for so long. He's happy and content driving me crazy LOL 
He is turned out every day with the girls, doesn't harrass them, and does great, and you can tell he's happy to be out with the herd again.

My issue now is still getting the weight on him. He's filling out over the ribs, and shoulders, but it's really slow going over the hind end.

He's getting a little over 3lbs of grain a day divided into morning/evening feedings, 15% medicated. Sometimes he finishes it off, sometimes he doesn't. Since the grass and browse started coming up he was only eating about half, and I think he was trying to just be picky.
So... now he eats with the girls, I pour a good ration for everyone, then get the others out except one doe that has twins and needs the extra grain. 
I feed them together and so far they have been cleaning it up.
I think this helped motivate them to eat and not 'pick' hehe...

Anyway, I was just curious....is there anything I could possibly add to their grain that a 'picky' goat might like that could help bulk him <and the doe> up? I've given Beet pulp before I can certainly get more, but not sure I was feeding enough of it before. They love it dry & mixed in their grain. 
I'll be buying BOSS soon for 4-H kids and a generic to calf manna, wonder if I should mix a little bit in as well?

Here's the brat from about 8pm tonight...

Gotta rub on the stump









Giving my son a funny look as if to say 'what is wrong with you?' lol while he was dancing around him being a goof..









He follows me everywhere, I circle a tree, he's right behind me, if I run, he chases me LOL It's hard to get pictures...so I hid behind the hay feeder and waited...sure enough he came looking!









I see you!









Yes, he knows that clip has something to do with opening the gate! My kids were playing in the backyard and he felt left out!









You can see in the last pic how his hind end is still lacking.

BTW, we did worm him again about a week ago with Quest Plus, and we're currently spraying him once a week to a week and a half with permectrin spray.

Sorry this is so long <as always>, but would love any ideas that won't kill my finances to help give him a little more of a boost in the weight dept.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Our buck - update 3/28 with a question *

HeHe...he is looking good and so cute...love his reactions to things and he is so smart...with the gate.... :laugh:

He may or may not fill... in the rear.....he has been through quite a lot....

I find sometimes... my bucks are picky too...my Doe's will eat just about anything...LOL well almost.... :wink:

Yes ...competition helps when feeding.....

Beat pulp is a good one to feed...just don't give to much.... sounds like all the other stuff you are or were feeding is good too..... :thumbup:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Our buck - update 3/28 with a question *

I've been reading about this boys trials...it was just a little over a month since he was almost at "deaths door" right? I'd give him time. And the great food you are already providing. I'm happy he's recovered. He has such a cute look on his face! You did good!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Our buck - update 3/28 with a question *

Well.... Big Bang is sick again. He is usually up and hollering wanting his breakfast and out of his pen. This morning he was laying in his house, and made no attempt to get up when I was in the shed to get feed -which he is usually screaming bloody murder at that point.
When I came out to feed him since I feed him first he didn't get up.
So I got him up and he was really shaky on his hind end.
He had eaten most of the grain I gave him last night, but hadn't touched his hay.
When I got him up I got him motivated to drink some water.

His temp is normal 102.5 I gave him banamine, Thiamine and probios. I've seen him poop, but haven't seen him pee, so I am worried, but he could have done it while I wasn't looking as I had to get the others fed, and get barn chores done.
He's been getting up to drink water, but otherwise is quiet in his shelter and I put our pregnant doe in with him as a buddy - she's just been laying around the barn since she's due in 11 days and it's been very hot and humid.

We DID switch grain again, this time to a reputable feed mill that has a better quality feed and it's pelleted.
He's been doing just fine on it, picking through and eating it. Last night was their first night eating it without the old feed since we ran out of the other.
So I am sure it's probably just thrown his stomach off.

Biggest problem with him is he won't graze and doesn't particularly want hay, he just wants grain! It's frustrating. The girls eat hay, browse, and graze but they have kids wearing them down, he has no excuses. He NEEDS to eat, and put weight on. I keep telling my husband we probably need to sell him once we get him better. He's a sweetie, but too darned picky. I don't think I'll ever EVER buy another buck that was raised as a show goat. The last buck we had wasn't picky at all and super easy to feed and graze, in fact he was the best grazer.

Hopefully he'll get over his current episode. I'll give him more thiamine in a little while. His eyes are fine, he's alert. Last time I went out to check on him, he got up and came over to rub on me. Such a brat


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## BareCreekFarm (Nov 20, 2011)

I am sorry to hear you are going through this again  I hope he pulls through this! You are really doing a good job keeping him going :thumb: Hope he gets better soon :hi5:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Oh poor boy  He REALLY is not an easy keeper hu? Do you know anything about his bloodlines? He did get so sick and that was most likely something that could have happened to any goat-but he does seem not so hardy at times and hard for you to maintain. 

My Mojo is not a very hardy goat either-he needs alot of TLC. But he does eat well and as he grows bigger he gets better and more sturdy with age. He is just mainly a drama queen er...king? LOL! But...having that other black traditional buck--Joker has really made me see the difference between a rock solid buck and a less hardy one. Joker plows through everything (is very sweet and as gentle as a kitten) but nothing bothers him-nothing gets him down. I need a herd and babies like that!

Thankfully all of Big Bangs Babies seem rock solid for you--you have not had any problems with them. 

I really hope he is alright (maybe just taking it easy?) He is such a sweet boy and so pretty! You will have to keep us posted. I think it would break MY heart if you sold him LOL! I love to see his pictures.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Ahh I am sorry to hear he is not feeling well again. Poor guy has had it rough. Hoping he pulls through quickly.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much, it was really frustrating finding him so sick again yesterday  He did seem better by the afternoon, but had a really 'lame' voice. He was out walking around looking for someone to pester, but wasn't grazing/browsing. He did eat some leaves my daughter offered him , but not with the same 'piggy' excitement when given something vs. having to get it himself.
I don't think he ate much of anything last night, but did tear through a little hay.
He's drinking plenty of water, I did put down some grain for him this morning, not much, but he just kind of picked at it. I gave him more hay as well and he's inside eating it. 
I didn't give him another shot today, but I will, I think I caught it in time before it affected him like it did last time. 

He is just super picky, and I think it's because he was raised on grain and not grass/browse. He was raised to be a show buck. 
So he just waits around all day for his grain.

He's underweight though and I don't know what to do for him. My husband thinks we need to cut the grain out of his diet and make him learn to graze, and browse. But I think we just need to cut him down to one feeding a day - at night - when he is in his pen. Right now his feed is divided into two feedings. I'll just continue to feed the others twice a day and cut him back, try to get him to graze better during the day. I'm sure he'll lose weight, but we have to do something different.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

You just need to get a mule! lol. Copy Cat was raised as a show buck too. He would not graze until we had sold his companion and put the mule in with him. She was his only companion so he would have to go down in the field with her and started be graze a lot more. He is still super picky with our feed and doesn't look as muscled up, but too bad thats all he is getting! When we first got him he was not eating our grain and I e-mailed the breeder... he was getting a bit of this mixed with some of that etc etc, so was pretty spoiled. Some our does were raised as show does only, they caught on pretty quick that I wasn't going to feed them hay and grain in the barn all day and if they wanted to eat they better get their butts out in the field! I don't put hay out in the barn for them when we have plenty of grass unless the weather is bad, otherwise they all just lay around in the barn all day like fat hogs. I guess I am just mean like that! 
Glad he at least seems like he is feeling a bit better today. Being a young buck, he probably still should have at least a small amount of grain. Giving him the feed at night is probably a good idea, or least his large portion at night and maybe a tiny handful in the am so he thinks he got something.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh no....sorry to hear that...  :hug:

Keep an eye on his temp after giving him banamine..it will drop a temp more...

Give him the Ammonium chloride in case..... you think it is stones...

He needs roughage.... it is odd.. he won't graze.....the banamine should of stimulated appetite.... :scratch:



> I don't think I'll ever EVER buy another buck that was raised as a show goat.


 I have show animals but... they all eat whatever I feed them.... so it is just something wrong with the buck you have..... something isn't right with him... Goats live to eat...


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, our bucks too --all penned and raised as show goats-Mojo has never known any different. Mine eat like hoggs--grain, BOSS, calf manna, hay and browse/graze when we do turn them out. 

Poor boy-would a vit. b injection stimulate appetite? I also worry, like Pam, that something is going on deeper than he is just "picky" but he also sounds like a "laid back eater" too.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, yeah I think it goes deeper. I think he has a serious mental issue!! LOL sorry...but really I do. 

He does get turned out with the girls every day, he's very laid back, and doesn't bother them at all. He thinks he is too good to be a stinky, breeding buck lol

He's always been this way since we got him. Where he was at before, they had beautiful, well cared for goats, but there was no place to graze in the pen he was in. 
I haven't given him any medication since yesterday and he seems to be a bit better. I kept him in the pen for most of the day, but let him out and he went into the woods to browse with the girls. He's a bit sluggish, but at least he's trying to get back to what I call 'Big Bang normal.'

We're going out in a few minutes so the kids can work with their doelings, and I'll give him another look over, and see how he is doing.
I think I do need to change his feeding routine, and see if that helps motivate him. Maybe if he realizes he's not getting the grain he was getting it will make him hungry enough to graze and eat the hay I offer.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

When Beep was younger all she would eat was grain and like yours she would wait around all day for that grain. So When she turned eight months old I had enough and stopped feeding her grain all together for six months. It was hard at first she would cry all day and got dreadfully thin but eventually she got tired of being hungry and decided grass and hay wasn't all that bad after all. After that I have had no problems with her eating her hay even though I am feeding grain again. Though I think BBB and Pam may be right perhaps there is something wrong that no one can see that is going on internally. I wish you the best though. He seems like he really doesn't keep very good. Maybe it is best for you to sell him...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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