# Scur removal options



## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I just acquired an 8.5 week ND buck with prominent scurring. His owner disbudded him and she has always done a thorough job and never gets scurs. So I couldn't believe when I saw this growth. A good half inch, it's not the thin type scurs, but quite thick and thick around the base. She seemed to think they would eventually drop off, but I doubt it.
Now this buck is a big boy, one of the largest I've seen at two months. He looks twice is age. I'm sure his maturation is fueling testosterone and thus the escalating growth.
So I am mulling over the best option to remove these. If I were to reburn, I'd have to pare down the growth. How much could I actually get down without a lot of bleeding to do the job? If I got enough off I could still get an iron around it. 
Or would it be better to try and elastrate the scurs? I have always heard to wait several months before banding. 
Thanks for all insights.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I would try the bands -- Never done it myself but if the base is as wide as you say then the iron isnt going to get it all


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I had a buck with bad scurs. I gave him a bit of happy juice, cut off the growth and re-burned him. It actually worked pretty good.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

What tool did you use to cut off the growth and how much did you pare down? "Happy juice" - a sedative or what?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I used acepromazine to sedate him but you don't need to sedate them. Cut the growth off with hoof nippers as close to the skull as possible and a Rhineharrt x30 to burn.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I got more info. It seems this buck was not disbudded until 3-4 weeks old (yikes!) and he had little horns (expectedly!) by then. The owner pared down the growth to a clean head and then disbudded. But it didn't stop the growth.
BTW, his sire was disbudded by a competent goater at under a week old and still developed nasty scurs. So it seems this line perhaps is stubborn that way.
I remember years ago I did a poor disbudding job and had a vet do a surgical removal. A clean head at first, but the buck nonetheless developed some pretty bad scurs.
So now I wonder whether another burn will do any good? I've had very hit and miss results and one time I barely started with the iron when I got profuse bleeding and had to stop.
Might a banding be a better option?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

The bands will take them off, but there is still chance that he will scur, mainly because of the "stubborn" regrowth bloodlines.
shave as you would for a burn and get the bands as close to the skull as you can, because these are scurs there isn't as much bloodflow to them as if they were full horns and they should come off in a short amount of time....trying to keep the flies off of him will likely be the hardest task.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

when disbudding buck kids lots of breeders burn more than one spot for each horn, because their horn base is so wide, you may need to burn one over the other..

I woulndt go lopping off goat horns if you dont have any experience though...I'd try the bands, worked good for me...

so band the horns, then take the disbudder and do like the olympic rings on his head to stop all horn growth


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I have a fair amount of experience disbudding and have learned to really hit the bucks thoroughly. But re-doing a buck that was initially burned at almost a month old is a daunting task. I'll get a good look at him tomorrow, try paring down the growth and see which option looks best. He's still just two months so maybe a reburn might do it?


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

ok do you have a picture?


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. This kid I've just had since yesterday and he's pretty skittish still.
Anyway, just spoke with the original owner and I got it wrong. When she disbudded this guy along with his brother, she did not pare down the horns. She told me the brother had even bigger horns and that they recently fell off! She strongly thinks she arrested any growth and that the horn I'm seeing is pretty much dead tissue. She's confident my guy's will fall off in the same fashion.
I don't think I've ever heard of a scab with horns coming off like that. I always was told you had to pare down all growth before putting the iron on to do the job. 
Any thoughts?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

A picture would help -- but if the horns are new growth under the scabs then no it wont fall off


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

What's she saying is she has seen no growth since she disbudded about 4 weeks ago. And since this guy's brother shed his scab - horns and all - just recently, she has no reason to think my guy won't follow suit.
I'm still skeptical but I'm going to give it a bit more time.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I guess that you will see --- keep us up to date.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I have done it both ways. Bands are going to take a little longer. If you can get the hoof trimmers to go through them thats an option but make sure you have an iron hot and ready to go as you will probably get at least some bleeding. I have re burned horns that were two inches before (on some alpine kids) i got the horn good and burnt and they eventually just fell off. the kids never had any problems after that.
beth


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm finally getting a good look at this buck kid, and unfortunately I think the original owner is wrong and this won't be sloughing off. It's unlike any disbudding I've done - but then I never waited 4 weeks and this is a big boy for his age. It just looks to me like a goat that hasn't been burned. There is the main horn root itself which is about a half inch vertically and then a wide base - probably at least twice the diameter of my disbudding iron - that is quite thick. Doesn't look like any scab at all.
The reason it's a worry is because I have a tentative sale on this guy but the prospective buyer doesn't want any major horn growth. Can't blame her.
I've done reburns before but not anywhere near this daunting a task. I think maybe banding is the way to go. I've never tried it though so hopefully you guys can give me some hints.
BTW, I will get a photo tomorrow before I attempt anything and see what everyone thinks. I so appreciate this forum!


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## shadycreekgoats (Mar 23, 2009)

We have done banding for some boer does I got at an auction. They were about 3-4 months old when we got them and they had pretty big horns, and a few little scurs. When you do banding the horns/scurs never grow back again. Just as a precaution, when the scurs start to get wobbly before they fall off it is best to put the goat in a area where it cannot get it scurs caught on anything. If it is wobbly and is rips it off early, there is a LOT of blood and it is a REALLY messy job. Hope that helps!! :greengrin:


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

Don't know how well you can see this, but welcome advice on how best to proceed.
Thanks!


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

to me those look more like a stunted horn that wasnt burnt long enough. I would definalty band them or if you have a rhinhart iron you can take the goat tip off and use the cattle tip. I have done that before with great success. If you decide to band try and have an iron ready when horns come off. So the first time you change the bands on them heat up the iron they very well may knock them off.
beth


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

Unfortunately, the original owner had a lot going on in her life and didn't get to this guy for about 4 weeks. She said the horns were the same size when she burned and have not grown since. 
Since he's just turning 9 weeks I might have a go at trying to pare them down and see if I can get the iron around the main root and then several figure eight burns around the base.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

Update: Checked the area today and one of the scabs is starting to separate from the skull. Keeping my fingers crossed to see how much falls off.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

interesting -- very curious and pictures would be awesome!


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## CapraKoza (Apr 7, 2009)

I have a 3 month old buckling from another farm that looks almost exactly just like that too!! and i too have been contemplating what to do- band or burn. My boy had been disbudded previously. With bucks, you have to burn the primary horn and then the accessory horn, which lies just medial and toward the nose. The burn marks should overlap 1/2 way. if that makes sense.I am VERY interested to follow this thread!


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

This person definitely burned the entire area. It's slow going but I can feel the scabs starting to peel away. I'll update with any progress.


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## helmstead (Oct 2, 2008)

Kelly at Flights of Fancy Farm bought a buck with scurs EXACTLY like that. She had an experienced disbudder reburn them, and the little genius made a video while he was doing it! Google her and email her, I'm sure she'll provide it for ya.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

Ta da!! One of the scabs came off this morning and the entire area - horn root and all - is gone! My friend who did the disbudding was right - she had affectively burned all the tissue and what was showing was dead. 
From what I can see of the other horn, part of the base is gone and I expect the same result, hopefully within a day or two.
I will get pix once that happens.
I am so glad I held off and didn't try to reburn or band. My friend was so adamant and I trusted her - with good reason. 
So I guess you CAN disbud at 4-5 weeks on a buck kid (and a big ND at that!) and do the job. I can't predict no secondary scurring, but for now looks fine.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

can you get pictures of the horns there now? I really would like to see how this looks before the scabs/horns fall off if possible.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

I too would like to see pictures when the other comes off. 
I experienced the same thing this winter. I waited on a pair of brothers and did them at 11 days old. So I burnt them extra long and wide to get everything. I had two different results. Although both scabbed over nicely, by the time they reached weaning age, only one had lost both scabs and was clean. The other still had both. I didn't see anymore growth and I was told by another goat friend that with some more time they would have fallen off too. Not so sure though. Now after reading this I guess it is possible they could have. But you may have got lucky with this buck, 4 weeks is really late for disbudding. 5-7 days is preferred for bucks I found out. Some even do it earlier. But I am glad though he doesn't have to be redone. :wink: 
Keep us posted though, I have seen pictures of this buck and he is gorgeous! Love his dam's udder!


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

The other one came off today and same result. So weird to see these scabs with half inch horns - didn't think it'd be possible at that late age.
At some point I suspect there will be some secondary growth. But I'm super pleased!
It's been pouring rain here (like it's been for the past six weeks!) so I'm hoping to get a photo tomorrow.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

The darker areas are simply dried blood.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

looks like a clean head to me - lets hope it stays that way


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Looks good. :thumbup:


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## FlightsofFancy (Oct 3, 2008)

Hey....I have been offline for a bit, but back now. Here is a link to the reburn. **WARNING! Very graphic!**





The re-burn was tramatic and it took him a very long time to recover. AND after all that he still has horn nubs (not scurs, but little nubs where the center of the horn would be) which is better than the deformed horns, but we had hoped for a cleaner head on him. My buck looked like yours when his buds fell off (after the reburn), but the horn tissue was still there. The only other option is to band the horns, but again there will probably still be horn growth.The only way to ensure a clean head, as you know, is to do it within the first week and get all the horn tissue.

I hope it works out for your kid. Keep us posted! Please feel free to contact me with any questions.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I think what might be different in this case is simply that the disbudding was done late and what came off was the original horn growth. No reburn was done and these were not scurs. 
But I agree, time will tell if scurring occurs, especially since this buck line is known for stubborn growth.


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