# What is killing all my goats.



## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

I am at a loss. Whatever it is, they can be fine and in less than 24 hours, dead. The first one that acted off was a 2yr old Nubian. Had a fecal done and they said cocci and worms. Treated but it was too late. Next, a 3 yr old buck, no where near the first(all in that pen were treated for cocci and worms). Fine one day and the next, I go out and he can't stand. So, started with worms and cocci treatment, dead. Next was fine one day, dead the next. Never saw him ill. Then 2 6 mo. old babies. The first I hit with everything I had, wormer, cocci, Thiamine, antibiotic, electrolytes, maybe some other things, I don't remember, just tried everything. The other 6 month old was fine at nighttime feeding and dead the next day, no chance to do anything for her. Now I have another buck down, sure to be dead by tomorrow. I would take him in if my roads were passable but of course it snowed and freezing rain here last night and can't safely get there. Won't risk the safety of my 2 legged kids for a goat. I have given him B complex shot and he has been getting Valbazen and is on day 3. Didn't treat for cocci this time because I was thinking maybe this is something else? For the most part, the goats that I have lost are healthy adults that I wouldn't think would be susceptible to cocci but I don't know. The weather here has been terrible, 50's then snow, then 10's. Could this be weakening the immune system and making them more prone to cocci? Note that of all these animals, only the 2 babies were in the same pen. And the first goat's pen was at least 100 feet from the other pens. And if this isn't enough to handle, I had a doe due beginning of March who lost 2 babies yesterday. Again, a totally different pen. But I don't think this is related at all to the rest. I'm just about ready to throw in the towel. Any suggestions on what to do with the current down buck if he is stil alive when I go back to the barn?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like possible silent pneumonia. Give him Oxytetracyline (LA200, duramycin etc) 1cc per 20lbs for 5 full days straight. Also B complex. Check temps - a low temp can also indicate silent pneumonia. IF you dont have any oxytetracyline, Tylan 200 has will work. 

Changes in outside temperature as you are describing can wreak havoc on a goats system and they become much more susceptable to getting pneumonia.


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

How much B Complex? I gave him 3ml because it said 5 ml for 100 Ibs. for sheep. He is around 40 Ibs.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

3ml is a good dose for 35-50lbs, you can't OD on it
This does sound like silent pneumonia, treat as Stacey recommended. 
Im so sorry for your losses


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I too agree, as I read your post my thoughts were silnet pneumonia, also known as Interstitial Pneumonia..they canbe dead in 12 hours with hardly a symptom..I would recommend Tylan 200 (1 cc per 25# twice daily sub Q) over LA 200 but what ever you have on hand I would use to treat the rest of your herd...I would also worm every one...Dont over worm...give one dose (valbazen is 1 cc per 10#) then wait 10 days before boostering...
Be sure to follow with probiotics after doing 5-7 days antibioitc treatment
Keeping them hydrated and out of drafts is important as well..
B complex is a wonderful support vitamin
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/pneumonia06.html
Here is a quote on Silent pneumonia



> *The most most difficult to detect and quickest-to-kill type of pneumonia is Interstitial Pneumonia. Death can occur in 12 hours or less.* Example: At night the goat appears healthy, but in the morning it is down and dying. No runny nose and no fever -- . just a goat that is off-feed, may or may not occasionally cough, and standing away from the herd because fluids are building up in the lungs (not sitting or laying down, unless it is already at death's door), but may not appear to be seriously ill. The only clear diagnostic symptom is high fever and it may not be present when you discover the sick goat. High fever peaks quickly and then body temperature rapidly drops below normal, misleading the producer into diagnosing the problem as ruminal. Sub-normal body temperature is often a sign of ruminal problems. Temperatures under 100*F should be considered critical, regardless of the cause of the illness.
> 
> If high fever is present, it must be brought down quickly or the goat is going to die; fever-reducing medication and appropriate antibiotic therapy must be started immediately. If fever is not present but all other symptoms indicate pneumonia, antibiotic treatment is also essential. (This is an exception to the "no antibiotic usage if fever is not present" rule.) If the illness has progressed far enough, the goat will try to sit down, moan with discomfort, and immediately stand up --- because fluid has begun to accumulate in the lungs and abdomen and the kidneys are shutting down. A goat in this condition probably cannot be saved but the producer should try until efforts prove either successful or futile. The genetic strength of the goat plays a big role in its ability to survive. A goat that wants to live can overcome amazing obstacles. However, once the lungs fill with fluids, survival is unlikely.


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## phydough (Jun 3, 2011)

I had that kind of sharp weather change in Dec, 40's then below freezing suddenly. Then, the goats, sheep and alpacas started having problems. LA200 worked excellent.


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## HalfAChanceFarm (Dec 1, 2012)

Following

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

Ok, I'll hit everyone with it. Safe for my does that are kidding next month I guess? I am confused. The Valbazen I thought was the wormer I did 5 days in a row rather than 1 time a week for 3 weeks( I do that with the ivermect). Am I wrong on that? They were all wormed about a month ago when this all first started. I don't know why I was so focused on a worm load. I guess the fecal of the first just made me think that was what I was fighting. I was thinking the constant changes of temps were weakening the immune system and making them more susceptible to worms. Hadn't really even considered anything else. I haven't ever had anything like this occur here. But this is the first year I ever remember having these wide changes in temp here. I'm in So. IL. We don't usually have this bad a winter here.


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## 7blessings (Jun 30, 2013)

Can this be prevented somehow?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do not give Valbazen to pregnant does.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Also following...so sorry you are dealing with this!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Large changes in temp coupled with moisture is deadly for goaties. Can you describe in detail their sleeping/shelter area. If its not protecting them enough, that could be your cause. Also how bad of a ammonia smell is in there can also contribute.


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

Most of my goats are in a 30 x 50 pole barn. I had "doggie doors" cut in the side of it and they have pens inside. I had a few in a hog farrowing hut they shared with a mini donkey. Also had 2 bucks in a dog igloo. The barn is not heated but I live in the woods so it is not as cold in there even with the holes cut which do not have the plastic door covering that you would put on real dog doors. I was afraid they wouldn't leave that alone or wouldn't go in if the door was covered with something. We don't usually have winters like this. It was in the 50's last week. Then this week we had snow and ice and today it is 12 during the day, with the sun shining. I have a pen of yearling and under that do not have outdoor access. I take them out on good days to the yard. That is part of the reason I was thinking maybe cocci because they are in close quarters this year for warmth. I don't notice any ammonia smell in the barn. I do take the top layer and push it out the door when I can. The first doe lost was in the farrowing hut. I moved those in the barn. I lost 2 bucks in the dog igloo, which I also take apart and clean out when it's warm. The younger ones were in the barn the whole time. I have a stallion who lives at the south end of the barn and there is a 10 x 10 opening(no door) at that end. This barn was originally built for my horses. Water does freeze in the barn but usually not solid. So if I treat everyone, this will just fix them if they are going to get it? So if we have this weather again, I would need to re-treat? It has been doing this high/low thing pretty much all winter. Never seen a winter like this one. The pregnant does got Safegaurd last month. And the babies got Prohibit about 2 weeks ago. I also have ivermect and the Valbazen. I have been trying to learn fecals and honestly, I haven't been able to see anything in them so maybe pneumonia is why. The boy from last night died. He was a 2year old mini Nubian. All the goats lost have been either Nubian or 1 Nigerian dwarf. I haven't lost any boer YET. From what I am getting in the info., if they are showing signs, it's probably already to late? I gave him a shot IM. But I see someone said SQ. So should I give all the others SQ? I have 20G 1/2" needles and 22G 1' needles. Either would work I guess but I think I would use the 20G for SQ? Going out to hit the yearlings and Nubians in a minute. The boer will have ot wait until I have help later tonight. I don't think I can hold and inject and not get hurt with some of those big girls.


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

BTW, should I give them all the B also if they are as of now not showing any sings of illness? Heading out with the first fist full of shots. I had 30 goats at the beginning of this. I'm now down to 24. Gonna be a long week of shots. I hope this works.


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

Jut read through the Tenn. Goat page that one of you added. I have Naxcel in the freezer. Should I save it for anyone else that might get bad? Don't have enough to give every goat for 5 days. But I do have LA200 and Oxy whatever( not in front of me and I know I can't spell it. So I am starting with LA200 for now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes I would save the Naxxel for anyone who you think is def. ill...for all others, The La 200 along with B complex if you choose...B complex is always a great support...

Im sure you know but LA 200 stings ALOT...give sub Q ...

Best wishes


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

Yeah, I am thinking this is definitely a team sport. Just gave it to one and she acted like I tried to kill her. Jumped, yelled, fell over, etc. Scared me to death. She is acting fine now but I am not doing any others until I have someone to hold them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes it stings bad..you can grab Byomycin which is the same med without the sting or Tylan 200, which has a less bite to it...

I do sub q where the neck meets the body....they seem to handle stingy meds easier there..but five-seven days of that..YIKES!!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So hoping this works and your losses stop  Glad you are waiting for help, no need to break your back doing shots!


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## leesharennea (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks for directing me to your post. It does sound VERY similar. And we live in Southern IL also. We are treating with antibiotics from the vet. He just gave us one dose though, not something for 5 days. Maybe I should check back with him.


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## phydough (Jun 3, 2011)

Immediately after the shot, I hold onto them and rub with a quick motion and a little pressure where i gave the shot. I read somewhere that it helped. I don't know if it's a distraction or it actually does, but mine aren't hitting the ground crying now.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Stacie1205 said:


> Jut read through the Tenn. Goat page that one of you added. I have Naxcel in the freezer. Should I save it for anyone else that might get bad? Don't have enough to give every goat for 5 days. But I do have LA200 and Oxy whatever( not in front of me and I know I can't spell it. So I am starting with LA200 for now.


Are you aware that Naxcel does nothing for pneumonia when given according to the dosage on the label? I've used Naxcel on 2 different does according to the label and it was useless. One doe died, the other one I had to retreat with Draxxin to knock out the pneumonia. I'm a bit confused on what dosage to give, though. This one says 5-6 cc's for a 100 lb goat IM.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/medicine-uses-dosages-sue-rieth-101081/

And http://tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/pneumonia06.html says 3-4 cc's for a 100 lb goat.


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

leesharennea said:


> Thanks for directing me to your post. It does sound VERY similar. And we live in Southern IL also. We are treating with antibiotics from the vet. He just gave us one dose though, not something for 5 days. Maybe I should check back with him.


Wow, I didn't realize you were actually in my area. That just leads me to believe we are on the right track here because the only thing that our 2 herds would have in common is the climate we are in. Just to much of a coincidence that we are having the same issues. Which antibiotic did the vet recommend for your goats?


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## leesharennea (Feb 6, 2014)

Stacie1205 said:


> Wow, I didn't realize you were actually in my area. That just leads me to believe we are on the right track here because the only thing that our 2 herds would have in common is the climate we are in. Just to much of a coincidence that we are having the same issues. Which antibiotic did the vet recommend for your goats?


He gave us Noromycin LA300 at a dose of 1.5ml/50lbs. From my research it appears to be the same type of drug as LA200, just a higher concentration. I just hope it works. This winter is just ridiculous!


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