# Mini Nubian conformation questions



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Hey everyone. I have two young twin does (Mini Nubians) that I’d love for a more experienced goat keeper to look at. I need some conformation-related advice. 

I DEFINITELY have a favorite and am leaning towards keeping and breeding her, but my favoritism is based mostly on personality and she-just-has-a-face-that-I-really-like. Lol. So I’d love for you guys to compare them just based on their conformation and tell me what you think. 

I will put pictures of one in one comment and pictures of the other in another comment (I’m not sure how to separate them if I try to add them here). I know very little about what makes a sturdy, healthy goat, so any advice or information is welcome!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Here are some pictures of Mika.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

And here are photos of Suki. I don’t think I’m very good at taking pictures of goats. Sorry. Lol. They don’t stand still very much.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Can you retake pictures of both so the are on level ground and the photo is level with their height. Be careful of shadows


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Goatzrule said:


> Can you retake pictures of both so the are on level ground and the photo is level with their height. Be careful of shadows


I will see what I can do! I may need so have someone hold them still. Lol


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Feira426 said:


> I will see what I can do! I may need so have someone hold them still. Lol


Get front, side, nose and from behind views if you can.

Also. Are they always that rusty color? They may need some copper.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Get front, side, nose and from behind views if you can.
> 
> Also. Are they always that rusty color? They may need some copper.


They have been this color since they were born. Their dad was solid black and their mom is brown, so I think it's just how they look - I did give all my goats copper boluses in February too.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Better pictures of the first doe.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Better pics of the second. Thanks for telling me how to get better pics for conformation! I'm pretty new to goats still and I've never done this before.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Those are great pictures. I will work on getting you a response tonight or tomorrow.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Feira426 said:


> View attachment 178805
> View attachment 178807
> View attachment 178809
> View attachment 178811
> Better pics of the second. Thanks for telling me how to get better pics for conformation! I'm pretty new to goats still and I've never done this before.


Overall i like the second better than the first.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Overall i like the second better than the first.


Oh, yay! She's my favorite - and has been since she was like half a day old, lol! Such a sweetheart and so curious and playful, right from the beginning. What do you think I should look for in a buck for her? I don't know much about what makes a sturdy healthy goat. Is there a good website you can recommend I read for conformation stuff?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Feira426 said:


> Oh, yay! She's my favorite - and has been since she was like half a day old, lol! Such a sweetheart and so curious and playful, right from the beginning. What do you think I should look for in a buck for her? I don't know much about what makes a sturdy healthy goat. Is there a good website you can recommend I read for conformation stuff?


I put up a bunch of pics i got from fb on conformation in this post.

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/trying-to-learn-more-about-conformation.212161/#post-2371213


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm no expert at conformation. But, I am a rump girl. Lol. Both of those goats have steep rumps so if it were me and I definitely wanted to keep one, I would be looking for a buck that is really super level. Make sure you look back at his dam, sire, and granddams if possible. The other thing I always look at is udder attachments when I'm looking for a buck.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

The First
Pros:
Correctness on feet and legs
Depth in barrel
Depth of chest/brisket
Width of rump
Tightness of shoulders

Cons
Steepness in rump
Narrow bodied
Her back end being higher than her front could be do to her still growing into herself

Shes a nice doe with a lot of potential


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

The second
Pros 
Width of chest
Smoothness of blending from withers to hips
Correctness on feet and legs
Depth of barrel and chest floor
Width of rump

Cons
Steepness of rump
Narrow in escutcheon
I would like to see more length of body

Overall I do agree she is the better doe. I would like to see you breed either to a wider more correct buck


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> I put up a bunch of pics i got from fb on conformation in this post.
> 
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/trying-to-learn-more-about-conformation.212161/#post-2371213


Thank you!!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Goatzrule said:


> The second
> Pros
> Width of chest
> Smoothness of blending from withers to hips
> ...


Wonderful! I appreciate this so much. So I should look for a buck with a not-steep rump and maybe taller in the front? I will have to look up what an escutcheon is, heh.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

lada823 said:


> I'm no expert at conformation. But, I am a rump girl. Lol. Both of those goats have steep rumps so if it were me and I definitely wanted to keep one, I would be looking for a buck that is really super level. Make sure you look back at his dam, sire, and granddams if possible. The other thing I always look at is udder attachments when I'm looking for a buck.


Great! Thank you so much for the advice. Thanks again to everyone else too. I really appreciate you guys so much. I'm learning tons here. This forum is wonderful.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

What do you guys think about this buckling to improve that second doe?

The third picture is his sire.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I do like his levelness across the top but would like to see more length of rump and more level. He is an improvement and a step in the right direction so I would go for it if its a good deal


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

I agree. More length would be nice. Beautiful coloring! I don't care for the rump on his sire - sorry, told you I was a rump girl.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

lada823 said:


> I agree. More length would be nice. Beautiful coloring! I don't care for the rump on his sire - sorry, told you I was a rump girl.


Lada, what is a good example of a great rump? I'd love a picture if you have one. I'm trying to learn all I can. What makes the steep slope bad and the more level rump better?

Thanks to everyone for the help!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Feira426 said:


> Lada, what is a good example of a great rump? I'd love a picture if you have one. I'm trying to learn all I can. What makes the steep slope bad and the more level rump better?
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the help!


imagine being able to balance a plate on their rump. You want one that is flat thurl to thurl, long and flat. Ill try to find a picture


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)




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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Goatzrule said:


>


I see! So what makes a flat rump more desirable? Is it just an aesthetic preference or is it a function/health thing?


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

This fella is also available. He is first generation, and his ears stick out, but his body looks longer to me. What do you guys think? How does he compare to the moonspotted F4?


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

His escutcheon might be better too... (?)

I'm not sure.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

I think some of it is just cosmetic. They just look nicer. However, a steep rump in a doe can lead to problems kidding. Does with level rumps also have better udder attachment, which keeps their udder nice and high even after several kiddings, and they can support a larger udder without waddling. 

I really like the second dude. It depends on what your goal is. He has some alpine in him which accounts for the airplane ears (super cute in my opinion). Alpine x Nubian are fantastic crosses I think. I have a few lamancha x alpine (elf ears -- also super cute) and they are some of my favorite goats. That said, depending on his percentage, sometimes registration is an issue with buck kids. And you have to ask if you want percentage or experimental stock or if you want to stick with purebred. 

Both of those bucklings are going to improve your doe and you can go from there. Do you just have one doe or are you looking to expand? If it's just one or 2 does to start then I wouldn't want to spend a ton of money on a buck as you will have to replace him in a couple of years anyway if you are going to retain your doe kids. That's the part of the goat journey that I think is most fun - trying to improve your line each season. Then you can keep the ones who exhibit the qualities you're looking for and sell the older ones as you go on.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Its mostly functional, from kidding and udder support. I like the second buckling the best!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

The second one is supposed to be an F1 Mini Nubian so the kids should register as F2 if I understand right. I have the one sixth generation doe that I’m planning to keep. I intend to sell her mother and sister and retain her as I think she’s the best of the three purebreds I have. I also have an almost Alpine doe (with a little Kiko), and her daughter who is half Mini Nubian (and adorable, but kind of a bully). 

I was really curious to see what would happen with the Alpine/Mini Nubian mix and follow that line a bit, but because of her personality I may end up selling her and buying a really good MN doeling. I can’t have more than five adult goats here so it really limits my options. 

The second kid is $100 less than the first because he’s first gen. I really like the coat pattern on the first buckling and I think he’s super cute, but I like the second one too and if he has superior conformation I may go that route. 

Some tough decisions with these goats!! Thanks again for all the information - it really helps. I will definitely try to work toward less sloping bums for my herd. Easier kidding sold me on that one.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Feira426 said:


> The second kid is $100 less than the first because he's first gen. I really like the coat pattern on the first buckling and I think he's super cute.


Good advice I got was shop for goats like you are color blind. Unlike other species, all goat conformation guidelines have a purpose and function so they can have a long productive life.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Feira426 said:


> The second one is supposed to be an F1 Mini Nubian so the kids should register as F2 if I understand right. I have the one sixth generation doe that I'm planning to keep. I intend to sell her mother and sister and retain her as I think she's the best of the three purebreds I have. I also have an almost Alpine doe (with a little Kiko), and her daughter who is half Mini Nubian (and adorable, but kind of a bully).
> 
> I was really curious to see what would happen with the Alpine/Mini Nubian mix and follow that line a bit, but because of her personality I may end up selling her and buying a really good MN doeling. I can't have more than five adult goats here so it really limits my options.
> 
> ...


Of you are looking for a higher gen buckling than your pb does... you NEED to think about kidding. Those bucklings can throw big kids because they are mostly full sized nub. That could go nadly for the does and kidding.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Goatzrule said:


> Good advice I got was shop for goats like you are color blind. Unlike other species, all goat conformation guidelines have a purpose and function so they can have a long productive life.


That is great advice! Thank you.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Of you are looking for a higher gen buckling than your pb does... you NEED to think about kidding. Those bucklings can throw big kids because they are mostly full sized nub. That could go nadly for the does and kidding.


I will look into that, thanks. I am looking for smaller bucks and told the breeder so. My does are kinda big I think. I'd like slightly smaller goats next generation.

If he is half and half will he tend to make big babies? He is first gen. I would have thought the Nigerian half would counter the Nubian half when it came to kid size, but I know very little about such things.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Feira426 said:


> I will look into that, thanks. I am looking for smaller bucks and told the breeder so. My does are kinda big I think. I'd like slightly smaller goats next generation.
> 
> If he is half and half will he tend to make big babies? He is first gen. I would have thought the Nigerian half would counter the Nubian half when it came to kid size, but I know very little about such things.


You cannot look at a small buck and automatically think smaller kids. An f1 will likely grow into a big buck... almost nub sized buck. It does not always work that way but most often it does. Always ask what weight kids does his sire throw. But even then that is not an exact what this buck may throw.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Something that you didn't mention is why you are breeding them? If you are just looking at pets, then it's not as important. But if you are looking to sell them as milkers you need to evaluate udders from the dams and sires. Udders makes or breaks a milk goat as well as production.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

You don't want cow level rumps. Even ADGA says that. You want "nearly level". The slightest angle. Cow straight will give kidding problems. My steep rumped doe actually has the easiest births. The steepness affects the udder, however her udder is very nice regardless. 

In my experience, the 50/50 F1 bucks do not get as big as Nubians. A higher gen is usually 50-60% Nubian and they aren't near full size Nubian. A 75%/25% Nubian F1 will be much larger.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

This is my steep rumped doe. She's also a 50/50 F1 who isn't any bigger than my F5 doe. She slips her kids out like butter. No issues ever.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Something that you didn't mention is why you are breeding them? If you are just looking at pets, then it's not as important. But if you are looking to sell them as milkers you need to evaluate udders from the dams and sires. Udders makes or breaks a milk goat as well as production.


Looking to sell milkers and improve my herd. I sold one wether as a pet, got promises of "I'll take great care of him," and "I'll send pics" and "if I ever can't keep him I'll sell him back to you" and then heard he escaped the yard the evening she got him home and never heard another word. I'm hoping if I breed more desirable milk goats I will be able to find better homes for the kids.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Really take a look at the udders and genetics on the buck's dam and sire. This will help you with production. Unfortunately most mini wethers do go to pet homes. Sometimes you can find a 4-H family - but classes for these guys are few and far between. Not much else to do with them besides meat.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Really take a look at the udders and genetics on the buck's dam and sire. This will help you with production. Unfortunately most mini wethers do go to pet homes. Sometimes you can find a 4-H family - but classes for these guys are few and far between. Not much else to do with them besides meat.


I'm a total amateur at judging udders but these udders in his sire's line look pretty great to me! What do you think?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Im not a mini person, but I've heard Kessel Run has some nice animals. Doe looks like she has nice capacity and decent sized teats! Good luck with your little man!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Well I went and looked at the two little bucklings in person today. The first generation guy I was leaning towards is quite nice, but I REALLY like his half brother.

What do you all think?

He has a nice escutcheon too but I didn't get a good picture of that.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Really hard to tell without him being set up. Looks like a pretty level topline, but In the pic he looks posty, and I can't tell if he toes out or is over at the knee - just can't say without him being properly set up - he also looks like he has a messy butt - maybe scours? He does look like a big kid and in overall good condition.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Really hard to tell without him being set up. Looks like a pretty level topline, but In the pic he looks posty, and I can't tell if he toes out or is over at the knee - just can't say without him being properly set up - he also looks like he has a messy butt - maybe scours? He does look like a big kid and in overall good condition.


The breeder said he'd just gotten over a case of scours.

Let me see if I have any better pictures from the side.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Just looking back through some of my old threads to refresh my memory (you all gave me such fantastic advice), and thought I'd post a little update here!

I purchased the third buckling. He didn't have quite the length of body of his brother, and is definitely a little postier, but he has a FANTASTIC personality and excellent milk lines and I decided those were slightly more important to me at the moment - I can work on length and legs more in the future. But right now I mostly want sweet, gentle goats with lots of milk!!

I grabbed a quick picture of him today while I was photographing my Alpine mix. Nothing fancy, but thought I'd put it up here anyway in case anyone felt like looking. He definitely has a shorter body than his brother but I feel like his topline/rump and escutcheon will improve Suki quite a bit, and I'm so excited about his milk lines and sweet personality. And he has THE CUTEST FACE!! I'll have to get out there soon and get some good pictures. If I'm lucky I won't get peed on, lol. He keeps getting me when he comes over for pets and then decides it's time to pee on his face. Boys.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Got a couple of decent pictures of the little guy just now. I love his cute face!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

One more just for kicks.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Aww, he's adorable! What's his name?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Those airplane ears crack me up! What a cutie


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I love the whole look. Sticking out his tongue and his little face.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

I just love him!! 

We were absolutely assaulted by Murphy’s law the day we brought him home, so we call him Murphy, lol. Hit a T-post that was lying in the middle of the road and put a hole in our gas tank three hours from home. It was a Sunday afternoon, and ALL the local car repair and vehicle rental places were closed. And it was during the early Covid lockdowns, so the tow company couldn’t allow riders in the tow trucks. 

We were stranded in a small town three hours from home with a crying buckling and two children. Lucky for me my dad drove all the way out to get us and give us all a ride home. He dropped us off at our house around midnight. What an ordeal. 

Never again will I drive that far from home on a Sunday!! I didn’t realize almost all repair places and rental shops were closed on Sundays. 

So yeah, his name is Murphy, lol.


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