# Need help ASAP... kidding problems!!! **update**



## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

I have a doe that has been in active labor for a few hours... have gone in and she doesn't feel dialated, though it does feel like there is a kid pushing on the cervix. She has been PUSHING and is getting tired but still no dialation.... have tried manual stimulation...its not working. Can Oxytosin or Lutalyse be used at this point? If so, what would be the best option? I don't want to rupture her uterus...but she needs something to dialate...any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Take Care,


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Hmm...I have never had them not diolate ....when manually doing so...so.... that is a tough one...with the drugs you are right she can rupture internally if used wrong.......can you get a hold of a vet?...she may need Caesarean section done... I am sorry ...you are dealing with this.... prayers for your Doe and Babies... :hug: ray: :hug:


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

careful with the drugs -- oxy can rupture her uterus -- how's she doing?


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Oxytocin should help soften her cervix and should strengthen her contractions BUT if you have never used it Be Very Careful. there is a right time and a wrong time to use it. If the cervix is soft just not DILATED the drug should help soften it by increasing the frequency and strength of the contractions. But if the kid is mispositioned or the doe is really just in early labor Oxy could be bad. Dex would be more to induce labor but it sounds like maybe she is starting labor already herself...I would be very careful...epinephrine should be loaded in a syringe just in case she shocks. Did you say she was a first timer? Has she has problems in previous kiddings? I like the wait and see idea...but if she is still struggling tomorrow I would have the vet out to look at her...jmo...I have given .5cc, of oxy, to a boer does, probably 175# range, before with good results. I think the recommended doseage is higher but I always figure I can give more if needed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*



> I like the wait and see idea...but if she is still struggling tomorrow I would have the vet out to look at her...jmo..


 Her Doe is pushing and in active labor now....so she can't wait til tomorrow.... that risks ..losing both the Doe and her babies...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

How is your Doe Jess? :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Has her water broke yet Jess?

I've never dealt with one that hasn't dilated....it's normally the kid putting pressure on the cervix as well as hormones that cause the dilation. 
Can you get a finger tip in and do the gentle circular massage to try and stretch her?

Prayers and thoughts are with you :hug:


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*



toth boer goats said:


> > I like the wait and see idea...but if she is still struggling tomorrow I would have the vet out to look at her...jmo..
> 
> 
> Her Doe is pushing and in active labor now....so she can't wait til tomorrow.... that risks ..losing both the Doe and her babies...


You understand JMO means Just My Opinion right??? Besides what vet is going to come to your farm at 8pm on a sunday night? and unless you happen to have Oxy in your medicine chest, you won't be getting any until tomorrow anyway...From your vet


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

I've manually dilated a does cervix before, just gently 'open' it with the tips of your fingers, it can take a while but it's worked for my does. 
I wouldnt give any drugs yet, just wait with her, see if any other breeders can come assist you if you can't get a vet on the phone for advice.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Well, things have gone from bad to worse.... we have been manually stimulating her all day, gave her CMPK in case its calcium deficiency, still zero dilation of the cervix...feels as if her uterus is actually tilted..so the baby has to make it over a hump to get out anyways. After pushing off and on all day (not hard and not consistent) she started to push hard this evening...we thought her cervix was dilating...got happy briefly until we realized that she was pushing out her uterus...then the rectal prolapse began as well.  Called as many vets as possible..can't get a hold of anyone. LUCKILY at this point she seems to have stopped pushing. I have oxtosin here as well as Lute and I have access to Dex... but I'm afraid to give her any as at this point I don't want her to push...because she's pushing out her uterus.  Hoping and PRAYING that she makes it until morning so I can get a hold of a vet...then I will give the Oxytosin...and if that causes her to expel the uterus due to not dilating at least we will have a vet here to euthanize her asap and hopefully the kids will make it.... as of now they are still moving.  Its been a rough day.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

OH JESS!!! Im so sorry!

I will pray they are ok until morning when a vet can save everyone


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Jess...she cannot expel her uterus with kids in it...they are holding it inside her, she can however have a rectal prolapse from pushing with the weight of the kids putting pressure on the tissues of the canal.

The "mess" you are seeing is from the soft tissues being swollen. I am praying that she stays stable til morning.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

hang on === I am going to call some one I know


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*



> hang on === I am going to call some one I know


 ray:

Oh I am so sorry....  Prayers sent your way...hope they all will be OK.... :hug: ray:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

rub lute on the cervix to help it dilate! Praying!

Also if her uterus comes out or there is lots of swelling pour LOTS of sugar on all her parts, it will help reduce swelling and make it easier to push her uterus back in if needed.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

what is the doe's due date?


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Jess call me -- 619 922 8827


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

ray: :grouphug:


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

ray: for a good outcome and :hug: to you Jess!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

ray:


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Well, I've been up off and on all night... the vet will be on his way but he is about 2 hours out. Luckily (and I use that term loosely) she gave up trying to deliver last night and has been resting peacefully and eating up a storm... I say this as a positive because she was pushing so hard that she was giving herself a vaginal prolapse and a rectal prolapse...with this big ball of tissue trying to come out...has a kid behind it? NOT an afterbirth....don't know what it is but I didn't want it to come out when I don't have a vet here to take her out of her misery should she start bleeding out.  In the 7 years of raising fainters....I've never seen anything like this. Her vaginal canal feels very strange too :shocked: ... you go in...but you can feel kids kicking at you from underneath your hand????? Don't know...just waiting for the vet and hoping we still have live kids in there....her water never broke so at least they aren't dry. :shrug:

She is early at this point...her due date is the 20th. She is a first freshener and is already sold to a loving pet home without papers.....now lets just hope we can keep her alive long enough to get there. :sigh:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

:hug: :grouphug: ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Praying for her...I feel so bad... that this is happening...  :hug: ray:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Praying, please keep us posted.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

vet just called and said he won't come out unless I need to euthanize her.  He said if I've tried to manually stimulate her already and shes not opening there is nothing he can do....then he added oh wouldn't give oxytosin because you're going to blow her uterus. Well, HOW THE HECK AM I SUPPOSED TO GET THESE KIDS OUT THEN??????????????????????????????????????? 
:hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: 
:hair: :hair: :hair: :help:

In the meantime...she is out grazing and acting like nothing is wrong???? Eating, drinking and basically seems quite content. What do I do?


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

I guess I'll just load her up on CMPK and yogurt....maybe the extra calcium will help and I'll go from there as its needed.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Try putting Lute on a glove and massaging it into her cervix.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

If she hits 150 on the 20th, then she can deliver at this point. The way you are saying that she is being normal now, and the kids are moving, then she very well likely has multiples in there and she's just not "ready"...how does her udder look? I'm betting that the "extra" kid in there was putting too much pressure on the cervix...making her feel as though she needed to push. IF the prolapse gets bigger before she delivers, plain white sugar poured on it will help shrink the tissues.
I am praying that this is the case for your doe and that she can go into true labor on her own.... she should deliver with no further problems prolapsing but there is chance that she could push out her uterus once the last kid is born..not common in goats, more so with cattle but the chance is there.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*



liz said:


> If she hits 150 on the 20th, then she can deliver at this point. The way you are saying that she is being normal now, and the kids are moving, then she very well likely has multiples in there and she's just not "ready"...how does her udder look? I'm betting that the "extra" kid in there was putting too much pressure on the cervix...making her feel as though she needed to push. IF the prolapse gets bigger before she delivers, plain white sugar poured on it will help shrink the tissues.
> I am praying that this is the case for your doe and that she can go into true labor on her own.... she should deliver with no further problems prolapsing but there is chance that she could push out her uterus once the last kid is born..not common in goats, more so with cattle but the chance is there.


Her udder is NOT full...she is bagged but its definitely not strutted. Thats one of the things that was throwing me off. She is early and her udder is not "ready" but she was definitely in full, contracting hard, pushing labor yesterday...with zero dilation. You could feel a kid at the cervix.... but it did not feel like a hoof, harder and flatter...more like a chest or a butt. She didn't have a prolapse until she started pushing real hard without dilating...so it was as if she was just trying to push her uterus right out because the babies wouldn't come out any other way. There was definitely a "mass" of some sort..... then she started to prolapse rectally as well...but we stopped messing with her at that point and called the vet....came back and though she was VERY swollen all prolapses (it was minor) were back in and her labor had stopped....completely. She hasn't had a contraction that I've seen since??? So maybe that is what the issue is Liz? Maybe she's not in actual labor? I've never seen anything like this so I've just been a big stress case. :hair:


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*



liz said:


> If she hits 150 on the 20th, then she can deliver at this point. The way you are saying that she is being normal now, and the kids are moving, then she very well likely has multiples in there and she's just not "ready"...how does her udder look? I'm betting that the "extra" kid in there was putting too much pressure on the cervix...making her feel as though she needed to push. IF the prolapse gets bigger before she delivers, plain white sugar poured on it will help shrink the tissues.
> I am praying that this is the case for your doe and that she can go into true labor on her own.... she should deliver with no further problems prolapsing but there is chance that she could push out her uterus once the last kid is born..not common in goats, more so with cattle but the chance is there.


Sounds like maybe it might be best to just Wait and See. I wouldn't worry unless you see her start leaking, then the kids need to come out ASAP. Actually Anyone would be worried if it was their goat, me included. Sometimes you just have to step back and let them do things their way. Maybe start her on an antibiotic? Just in case she is torn or some foreign material was introduced into the cervix/birth canal area. Good Luck with her.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

sorry just read your last post...If you think you felt some part of a kid but didn't think it was a head/hoof, meaning possible breach, It Is A Very Good thing that she is up and moving around. She is still early and possibly can reposition the kid/kids in the next few days.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

I can imagine just how stressed AND scared you are Jess :hug:

If her udder isn't ready and she stopped "just like that"...and her water didn't break and you can still feel kid movement,,,it's entirely possible that she's just not ready. IF you feel comfortable with leaving her alone as long as she's being her normal self...eating drinking etc, then I'd say wait and see, if you truly feel that letting her alone will be more heartache and suffering, then I'd try and find a different vet that will actually hear what you are telling him.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

()relics - good point, could it have been the butt of a kid coming breech?


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Hey Jess -- I wanted to talk to you last night, I called one of my good friends who is a "Goat WHisperer" and she confirms what Liz is saying -- good chance she's not ready to kid, esp since there was no fluid, no milk and early also. I've had goats go down and push but aren't in labor -- esp if they have a tummy full of babies and the pressure on their backside is making them feel like they should be pushing. Then if you go in and and try to get her dilate,it will make the pressure even stronger. Just keep an eye on her and wait for her to tell you when! Hope all is going okay though....


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Jess, I will be praying that se was just not feeling well (full of babies) and that she was just trying to move them around.

I pray that that all is well and you will have happy healthy babies when they are done baking. lol


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Praying your doe and kids are OK - and for your peace of mind!

Blessings to you...


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

any news, Jess?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Need help ASAP...doe having kidding problems!!!*

Jess...please update, I hope she is still doing well :hug:


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Sapphire is in true labor now. She is on Day 148, udder is full and tight, ligs are gone and she has some dried looking flesh coming out....thinking thats a bad sign.  Babies are not moving...really hoping its because they are getting readay to come out and not because they are dead. This delivery has been a nightmare...just want to get it over with at this point and hope I don't lose the doe. :tears:


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Oh, I pray that all goes well. I hear that you can't feel the kids moving when the doe is in labor so that could be it, like you said. Bless you and this delivery.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

:grouphug: :hug: ray: 

If you need any help feel free to call me. 978-870-3769. :hug:


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## Jamieluvshernigis (Dec 13, 2010)

Sending prayers your way!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: I am praying.... ray:


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your support.... I keep checking on her...she's not in active labor yet just has all the signs that she's ready. Still want to know what the heck the dried fleshy goo is though????


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure what that would be.. :scratch: ....praying... it isn't something serious.... and things go smoothly... :hug: ray:


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: Need help ASAP... kidding problems!!! **kids are here!!!*

My friends doe had that, it was a baby that never developed or something like that, I guess it just developed some fleshy stuff like what you are saying and that was it....she had 3 healthy babies though. Hope thats you girls case!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I hope and pray things go smoothly for your doe and you can breathe a sigh of happy relief when it's over!


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Twins so far...think she's done but haven't checked yet!


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

What a relief! That is fantastic! Hope she recovers totally. I missed some of the in between posts, and have been wondering what happened. This seems like the best possible news!

Jan


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

AWWWWW SUPER CUTE!!!
CONGRATS


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm so glad that all is well!!! Cute babies!


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Whew! Thank Goodness!!!
Cutttee babies!
Hope everything else goes well!


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

:clap: :leap:  :applaud:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Alright..  ..congrats...they are real cuties.... :thumb: :greengrin: :leap:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww Congrats!!!!! They are adorable! And my 4yo was just standing here looking at pics with me and she said 'I want to buy that baby' LOL!!!! hehe!!!


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

Oh, what a relief! And what cute babies! Congratulations!


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