# Definitely bee stings... What to do?



## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

I'm more of an audio engineer that a goat farmer and I have an issue. What to do for a goat with numerous bee stings on the face? It was yesterday afternoon. 

I have given water -- she drinks it willingly -- this morning and she stands for a while but she's lethargic and swollen throughout her facial area. Not sure how many stings but she was impaled on the fence and when she shook it to get loose the fence banged on the hive... a sad situation indeed! She was standing absolutely still when I found her. and I had to get the bee suit out for that rescue. Her face had swollen, in fact, it was kind of funny. 

I have been there though. I had 5 stings on the face last year and I'd prefer that not to happen again. :smile: A cold shower made me feel great... for a while. 

Thanks. I'll try and contribute what I can but clearly I'm no goat expert.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Give Benedryl, orally. Use the instructions on the bottle. Liquid is easier than the pills.
Make sure all the stingers are out. Make a paste of baking soda and water and spread other stings. 
If she does not improve, call the vet, she could be in serious trouble.

You said she was impaled? Any wound? Make sure her tetanus shot is up to date.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get Benedryl in her ASAP.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Goats Rock said:


> Give Benedryl, orally. Use the instructions on the bottle. Liquid is easier than the pills.
> Make sure all the stingers are out. Make a paste of baking soda and water and spread other stings.
> If she does not improve, call the vet, she could be in serious trouble.
> 
> You said she was impaled? Any wound? Make sure her tetanus shot is up to date.


I'll give her a child's dose of liquid Benadryl and an aspirin and do the baking soda regimen. (Pretty much my own dose.) The extent of her wounds are just rawness on her horns. She'd stuck her head through the fence and I realize now that's not the strictest use of the term but an archaic one.

I do think I might change her name to Vlad however.

Thank you very much!!!


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Get Benedryl in her ASAP.


Thanks very much. Normally my 4 hives aren't an issue.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Poor girl, I bet she didn't think it was funny at all. You need to also be addressing any injury from being impaled. If it was left untreated she could be very sick at this point. Have you checked for infection/fever? As for benadryl, that's one of those don't ever be without it medications for humans and animals. ..that stuff saves lives.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I see that she isn't actuality injured...that's a good thing.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope she will be OK.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

I sincerely appreciate all the help. We've had nothing like this happen in the two years we've had goats and bees together. It's just one of those 'goat situations' that can't be anticipated. Anyway, I took a picture and have been monitoring her since the Benedryl -- half a tab -- dose + 80 mg aspirin.

She is resting and trying to keep her head up when she lays down. (I believe that to be the Benadryl drowsiness.) She stands on occasion, but hasn't taken any more water since 1.5 hours ago. She urinated and defecated and after about 30 minutes defecated a smaller amount.

The forecast is for a cool night.

Anyway, here's a video starring Patches if you're a goat fanatic.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

You could also apply cold compresses to her face to help bring down the swelling. If cold wash cloths felt good to you, they will feel good to your goat.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Yea. She's wasn't too keen on that earlier (wife's idea) for whatever reason. I will try again later based on your suggestion since I have never done this before. Thank you.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Apply honey straight to the stings. If you have any from your hives, that is the best. Next best is fresh raw local organic honey. Honey from the store doesn't work very well, but it will do in a pinch.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Damfino said:


> You could also apply cold compresses to her face to help bring down the swelling. If cold wash cloths felt good to you, they will feel good to your goat.


What I ended up doing was offering her water with a couple of ice cubes in it. She began to feel better after drinking that and was eating again within two hours after that. When it became dusk (about 8:30pm) she was out and about a for a short time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is feeling better.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Apply honey straight to the stings. If you have any from your hives, that is the best. Next best is fresh raw local organic honey. Honey from the store doesn't work very well, but it will do in a pinch.


Hello. There have been all types of ideas thrown out there and though your method is valid, I have never tried it and to tell you the truth, it had been forgotten about.

My sister recommended toothpaste which has something to do with the acid/base relationship and I'll probably forget that one too. 

All I could do was to feel for hardened bee entrails as actually 'seeing' single stingers is nigh impossible through the fur.

Also, since stingers are 'hooked' it's maybe not even be a good idea to try and 'pull' them out because you stand a good chance of leaving part of it under the skin anyway. The important thing is to get the venom sac off without squeezing in more venom.

You can cut it with small scissors or nail clipper and the remnant will gradually be encapsulated (with pus) and pushed up/out... much like a wood splinter.

(Picture by: Rose-Lynn Fisher)


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you Karen.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

July 1 update...

She has continued to improve. Her facial swelling has diminished but is not fully back to form. Her ears are still swollen, almost to the limits of what the skin can contain, and she is very conscious about anyone touching them.

Appetite has improved.

A remarkable amount of drool has continued but does not impede her ability to chew any food... though the chewing process is slowed and methodically guarded.

(One thing I noticed is that when given a salt block she licked it as normal but when the next goat came along, she smelled the drool and was instantly put off. So, if anyone has any ideas about what that could be I'd a appreciate a heads up about it.)

She is gradually getting back her 'goatyness' in that since the decreasing swelling around her eyes has enabled her to become alerted to certain things, e.g., sounds and movement, her reactions to such are becoming more normal.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is getting better day by day. 
I'd keep up the benadryl. If giving her a lot of milligrams, it can make them drowsy, so giving a touch less may help.
Maybe put the block up to a level where she doesn't have to bend down for it, maybe level to her so she cannot drool on it.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Glad she is getting better day by day.
> I'd keep up the benadryl. .


Thank you and thanks for the suggestion. -Honsby


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You bet.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You may want to try and get your veterinarian to sell you some epinephrine. Your doe may be hyper sensitive to bee stings and the next time may be more serious. 
Try putting some Preperation H on her ears. (if she will let you). It really does help with itching and swelling. 

I'm glad she is on the mend, poor girl.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

July 4th Update:

TWO days ago I felt some roughness around her mouth and even though her appetite was good she continued to favor certain areas of her mouth. 

I gave her some (about 2 cups) pure barley seeds yesterday -- which she ate with noticeable vigor -- and today she is more like her old self. She came up to the fence to be 'petted' and I seized the opportunity to take a few pictures and comment on them. (She has in excess of 50 - that's FIFTY folks- areas where she was stung.) 

The first picture is like I thought. It is a stinger that has been pushed to the surface of the skin that my wife has pulled out. They become much easier to see as they become dark, almost black with time. Notice the pus?

Next there's close snaps of her nose... front and side...

and next, from under her mouth. (Her nose is towards bottom of pic).

We don't know if it will help but we've used some cocoa butter lotion (w/glycerin, soybean oil, beeswax, mineral oil, and lanolin) with high hopes that it will be of some benefit.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Goats Rock said:


> You may want to try and get your veterinarian to sell you some epinephrine. Your doe may be hyper sensitive to bee stings and the next time may be more serious.
> Try putting some Preperation H on her ears. (if she will let you). It really does help with itching and swelling.
> 
> I'm glad she is on the mend, poor girl.


Thank you and thanks for the suggestions. Hemorrhoid cream... hood'a thunk it?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Apply honey straight to the stings. If you have any from your hives, that is the best. Next best is fresh raw local organic honey. Honey from the store doesn't work very well, but it will do in a pinch.


Hello again. I revisited this thread and though your idea may be appropriate for people that don't have both hives and goats it may not be for those that do.

As a beekeeper, I know it can't be ruled out that even more bees would be attracted to the honey... and wasps... and flies... at a time when a goat should be quiet and in solitude.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, when my neighbour moves a hive out into the field, he brings in another set up. He leaves one old frame with some honey and comb left on it in the empty hive. 
One year he caught seventeen wild swarms that way.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, I agree. 

Do not put honey on the wounds, it may not be a good thing.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Update: JUL 12

The worst is over but that may just be a presumption. Things are still happening and the pictures can tell a better story than I ever could.

The predominant concern is with her ears. They have been swollen since day 1 and continue to be. In fact, one ear has swollen beyond its capacity to hold fluid and has begun to split. There is no infection at this point but we are watching that area carefully.

Another condition concerning her ears is in regard to the ear- tips which have become hardened and dried out. I pinched one tip between two fingers and she did not flinch so the presumption is that the atrophy has reached its full extent in those areas.

The other pics are just for you to see the extent of the recovery up to this point in time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is a vet involved? She may need some vet help with the ears.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Note to self. Never ever place bee hives anywhere near my animals. OMG! I am so sorry for your poor goat! What a horrific experience. I don't see where you've contacted a vet, and am kind of surprised given the condition of her ears.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Is a vet involved? She may need some vet help with the ears.


Hello Karen. Thanks. The reason this thread has been posted and followed up on is because I didn't know what to do and so this is for all goat owners rich and poor. (I honestly thought there'd be more pro help available here and because there's not much, maybe my posts could actually help them out.)

I also thought it might be helpful to others if a professional or two could chime in. (Maybe someone could figure out if it's just a lack of knowledge or lack of will.)

I am not a pro but I do have medical training as a researcher and my inclination would be to lance the left ear and as long as the open wound is monitored and shows no signs of infection, prophylactic treatment would be optional.

If there's someone out there who would disagree or contribute some useful information, it would be appreciated. Calling in a 'vet' sounds suspicious to me, especially since we can all witness first hand nature taking its course.

I have witnessed some great strides in her recovery.

I apologize if the pictures offend anyone but c'est la vie.

-Harry


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Note to self. Never ever place bee hives anywhere near my animals. OMG! I am so sorry for your poor goat! What a horrific experience. I don't see where you've contacted a vet, and am kind of surprised given the condition of her ears.


It was an accident. She had stuck her head through a fence and as she tried to get out, banged the fence on the hive. She was absolutely still when I first approached her but the stinger count to date has been in excess of 50.

They are smart enough to stay away from hives. It's comes naturally to them.

I posted this thread so we could all learn. -Harry


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Poor baby. 

Did you try benadryl?


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Honsby, trust me I wasn't being critical. I truly am sorry for your goat, as I would be for you if you had been stung so badly. This is something I honestly never thought about, and we have discussed raising bees or leasing our property for someone to place their hives. So yes, your post has "educated" me regarding that. 
As far as me inquiring if you had called a vet? I am puzzled by your reaction. First off, nowhere did you post that you had medical experience until you responded to me. When I had an issue a while ago, everyone's very first comment was for me to "Call or take him to a vet". Knee jerk maybe? But I feel it's better safe than sorry. Everyone has to make their own decisions about that. 
I hope she pulls through without further damage, she sure looks sweet.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree a vet should see her.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

What needs done is to relive the hematoma and sew a line of large flat buttons down the ear to hold the layers together. One button sewn through the ear to another button all the way down the ear.

Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Honsby said:


> Calling in a 'vet' sounds suspicious to me, especially since we can all witness first hand nature taking its course.


I just read your post directed to me completely and this statement is confusing to me. Am I to understand that you have an aversion to Vets? And am I to believe that you are using your injured goat as an experiment where you withhold modern medical procedures, and electing to use some sort of holistic measures and let "nature take it's course"?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Poor baby.
> 
> Did you try benadryl?


Yes. She rested for a day and a half but she did not eat with vigor until the third day.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Honsby, trust me I wasn't being critical. I truly am sorry for your goat, as I would be for you if you had been stung so badly. This is something I honestly never thought about, and we have discussed raising bees or leasing our property for someone to place their hives. So yes, your post has "educated" me regarding that.
> As far as me inquiring if you had called a vet? I am puzzled by your reaction. First off, nowhere did you post that you had medical experience until you responded to me. When I had an issue a while ago, everyone's very first comment was for me to "Call or take him to a vet". Knee jerk maybe? But I feel it's better safe than sorry. Everyone has to make their own decisions about that.
> I hope she pulls through without further damage, she sure looks sweet.


Hello. I was responding to Karen. I know you weren't being 'critical' and I know that criticism can be good and bad so I take advice from strangers with a grain of salt just as you should take mine. I do appreciate your posts probably more than you know.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

goathiker said:


> What needs done is to relive the hematoma and sew a line of large flat buttons down the ear to hold the layers together. One button sewn through the ear to another button all the way down the ear.
> 
> Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


Thank you very much for the suggestion. Would you lance the opposite ear?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> As far as me inquiring if you had called a vet? I am puzzled by your reaction. First off, nowhere did you post that you had medical experience until you responded to me. When I had an issue a while ago, everyone's very first comment was for me to "Call or take him to a vet". Knee jerk maybe? But I feel it's better safe than sorry. Everyone has to make their own decisions about that.
> I hope she pulls through without further damage, she sure looks sweet.


Hello. I wasn't responding to you directly was I? I understand your thoughts and they're appreciated. It's not my intent to be combative in this forum.

My gut reaction to involving a vet? I'd rather involve someone that has spent decades raising goats and I'm going over there tomorrow to discuss this in person.

As I stated before, this is a learning experience for us all and for the person that recommended stitches... thank you for the suggestion.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> I do agree a vet should see her.


Hello. Thank you for the suggestion. Before I call in a stranger I will first go and see my friend who has spent decades raising goats.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Honsby said:


> Hello. I wasn't responding to you directly was I? I understand your thoughts and they're appreciated. It's not my intent to be combative in this forum.
> 
> My gut reaction to involving a vet? I'd rather involve someone that has spent decades raising goats and I'm going over there tomorrow to discuss this in person.
> 
> ...


You are so right! I saw the name Karen (my name) and thought you were replying to my post. Sorry for the confusion. I don't believe anyone has accused you of being inhuman. You say you are new at raising goats, so people who are experienced are only trying to help you and your sweet goat. Take what you can use, and ignore the rest, that's the beauty of forums like this.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> You are so right! I saw the name Karen (my name) and thought you were replying to my post. Sorry for the confusion. I don't believe anyone has accused you of being inhuman. You say you are new at raising goats, so people who are experienced are only trying to help you and your sweet goat. Take what you can use, and ignore the rest, that's the beauty of forums like this.


Yes! Thank you very much. We haven't had anything major happen to our goats and they are generally in good health after 2 years with them. Believe me, I have gleaned a ton of useful things to know and I would thank each of you in person if I could.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Just an FYI for everyone. It was determined that an emollient preparation of 5% Boric Acid and 95% Lanolin be placed on the area of the ear split... which I did. I will post more pics in a few days.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Keep it nice folks. 
If you don't like each other please utilize the ignore function.

Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

goathiker said:


> Keep it nice folks.
> If you don't like each other please utilize the ignore function.
> 
> Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


Agreed.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

goathiker said:


> Keep it nice folks.
> If you don't like each other please utilize the ignore function.
> 
> Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


We have an ignore button? Really?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hmm, I don't think so. 

I always suggest a vet when I see a bad case of bee stings. The reaction from so many stings can be fatal. As well as cutting off air supply in the nose and throat. 
To get the swelling down as quickly as possible is crucial. I see it split the goats ear, which is a lot of pressure and pain. 

I am concerned for her.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

I'm beginning to realize that I should never have posted anything that might help anyone here. What I can't figure out is that why you all are so tight-lipped about your experiences with vets. Is it that each vet would have a different opinion? I would believe that's the case.

Anyone can PM me if you're interested in seeing how this case is resolved. I will continue to log on and be as of much help as I can.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Are we all speaking the same language here? I am so confused.



Honsby said:


> What I can't figure out is that why you all are so tight-lipped about your experiences with vets. Is it that each vet would have a different opinion? I would believe that's the case.


All my experiences with any of the Vets I've used in the past have been great. In fact my horse vet, as a personal favor came out and put my dog down for me. The last vet I used was for my buck, if you search me you'll find the thread. I had been "lucky" like you, and hadn't had anything major happen in the 2-3 years I've had my goats so I had to call around to my goat friends for their recommendation for a good vet. I went with one, took my buck there and after an exam and 3 xrays, and several $100.00 dollars, I left feeling thankful it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, and glad that I had a vet I can use if the need arises.
I literally just called my cousin's thoroughbred vet last night about an issue with my donkey. She called me back, I texted her pictures of the issue and whoila! She told me what it was, and how to treat it. What a huge gift that was!

Look, it's your goat, it's your decision if and how to treat/feed/raise/whatever your goat. But YOU came here and shared your story. If you don't want advice, then just say so.

I will only speak for myself but if one of MY animals had been stung 50 or more times, I would call a vet, period. Just because you feel different doesn't make you inhuman, right, or wrong. You have to follow your beliefs. I think I can speak for all animal lovers though, in saying we hate to see any animal suffer and hope she pulls though this okay.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Hmm, I don't think so.
> 
> I always suggest a vet when I see a bad case of bee stings. The reaction from so many stings can be fatal. As well as cutting off air supply in the nose and throat.
> To get the swelling down as quickly as possible is crucial. I see it split the goats ear, which is a lot of pressure and pain.
> ...


Hello Pam. Thanks. Did that vet have any experience with bee stings? Do you know if Diphenhydramine was the only course taken?

By the time I was able to even count those stings she was already starting to heal and eating much better. It's still a toss up. Since it's not life threatening I'm going to continue to count on people in this forum and maybe we can all learn something from it.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Are we all speaking the same language here? I am so confused.
> 
> All my experiences with any of the Vets I've used in the past have been great. In fact my horse vet, as a personal favor came out and put my dog down for me. The last vet I used was for my buck, if you search me you'll find the thread. I had been "lucky" like you, and hadn't had anything major happen in the 2-3 years I've had my goats so I had to call around to my goat friends for their recommendation for a good vet. I went with one, took my buck there and after an exam and 3 xrays, and several $100.00 dollars, I left feeling thankful it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, and glad that I had a vet I can use if the need arises.
> I literally just called my cousin's thoroughbred vet last night about an issue with my donkey. She called me back, I texted her pictures of the issue and whoila! She told me what it was, and how to treat it. What a huge gift that was!
> ...


Hello Karen. The advice is welcome. I suppose it's the fact that I am not an 'animal lover' and that I am among strangers.

I would gladly accept a chimps heart given the fact that a chimp had to be sacrificed for me to do so. And so, would you want that for yourself or perhaps one of your children?

It's just for the sake of a friendly argument. I don't mean anything by asking. -H


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If you have Plantain growing, you can crush a bunch of the leaves in your blender and mix them and the juice with Vaseline or bag balm to spread over the stings. Plantain will pull the poison right out really fast.

Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Am I to understand that you have an aversion to Vets?


There is no aversion. I would not want a vet that didn't have any experience with what you're experiencing in this thread and seeing here before your very eyes.



Madgoat said:


> And am I to believe that you are using your injured goat as an experiment where you withhold modern medical procedures, and electing to use some sort of holistic measures and let "nature take it's course"?


Believe what you will. You can ask any Chiropractor or a practitioner of Ayurvedic medicine or any acupuncturist the same question and I am confident they would have a similar answer to mine. My answer would go something like this: There are no walls when it comes to finding answers or having a practical wisdom about something.

Like this: Just because my accountant has that 'CPA' alphabet soup after his name it doesn't mean I can't know what he knows.

After all, I did my own taxes for years before he got hold of 'em... and believe it or not Karen I even stayed out of jail. lol


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

goathiker said:


> If you have Plantain growing, you can crush a bunch of the leaves in your blender and mix them and the juice with Vaseline or bag balm to spread over the stings. Plantain will pull the poison right out really fast.
> 
> Sent from my LGL34C using Goat Forum mobile app


Thank you so much. I'm putting that in the notebook. That's good to know for next time as the venom has already dissipated. She got a rinse of chlorhexidine gluconate followed up with Mineral Oil-Hydrophil Petrolat ointment.

I've got some MEBO ointment on order but it has to come from China.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I don't know if "hot packing" would be possible, but it might be worth a try. You get a cloth as hot as you can stand and hold it on the ears until cool. It would help circulation and maybe speed healing. Years ago when I worked for a vet, we used that on abscesses and other infections. Does she have fever at all?


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Honsby said:


> It's just for the sake of a friendly argument. I don't mean anything by asking. -H


I would prefer to use the term "friendly discussion".


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Apply honey straight to the stings. If you have any from your hives, that is the best. Next best is fresh raw local organic honey. Honey from the store doesn't work very well, but it will do in a pinch.


Since she is out and active (not 100% but playing around) now might be the time for some honey on the exposed hypodermis.

This is a great suggestion... one for the notebook. Thanks.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You are welcome


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

jschies said:


> I don't know if "hot packing" would be possible, but it might be worth a try. You get a cloth as hot as you can stand and hold it on the ears until cool. It would help circulation and maybe speed healing. Years ago when I worked for a vet, we used that on abscesses and other infections. Does she have fever at all?


No fever. It's steady @ 102.5. There is no abscess or infection and I monitor her about 2 times per day. She does lay out in the hot sun with the ambient temps in the 90-100 range. I know the UV rays in the sunshine will help prevent infections and I have continued with the same course of emollient applications twice per day and (low dosage) Diphenhydramine and distilled water, with a 50 ml syringe, orally, also twice per day.

Thanks for your suggestion! Someone else might recommend treating abscesses with alternating hot/cold compresses. -Harry


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## Idahogoats (Sep 5, 2016)

Honsby said:


> I'm more of an audio engineer that a goat farmer and I have an issue. What to do for a goat with numerous bee stings on the face? It was yesterday afternoon.
> 
> I have given water -- she drinks it willingly -- this morning and she stands for a while but she's lethargic and swollen throughout her facial area. Not sure how many stings but she was impaled on the fence and when she shook it to get loose the fence banged on the hive... a sad situation indeed! She was standing absolutely still when I found her. and I had to get the bee suit out for that rescue. Her face had swollen, in fact, it was kind of funny.
> 
> ...


Try


Honsby said:


> I'm more of an audio engineer that a goat farmer and I have an issue. What to do for a goat with numerous bee stings on the face? It was yesterday afternoon.
> 
> I have given water -- she drinks it willingly -- this morning and she stands for a while but she's lethargic and swollen throughout her facial area. Not sure how many stings but she was impaled on the fence and when she shook it to get loose the fence banged on the hive... a sad situation indeed! She was standing absolutely still when I found her. and I had to get the bee suit out for that rescue. Her face had swollen, in fact, it was kind of funny.
> 
> ...


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## Idahogoats (Sep 5, 2016)

Idahogoats said:


> Try


Try some tea tree oil mixed with olive oil. That willnumb the area, reduce swelling and disinfect.
Good luck.
Idaho goats


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Honsby said:


> Hello Pam. Thanks. Did that vet have any experience with bee stings? Do you know if Diphenhydramine was the only course taken?
> 
> By the time I was able to even count those stings she was already starting to heal and eating much better. It's still a toss up. Since it's not life threatening I'm going to continue to count on people in this forum and maybe we can all learn something from it.


There are a few different treatments. But drawing a blank right now. 
Epinephrine can be used as well as other meds. Bee stings are treated alike in all species basically, so any vet could treat an animal. Doesn't have to be goat knowledgeable.
IV's are used in really extreme cases.

I seen a neighbors Llama get massive bee stings, told them to call a vet, they did nothing and it died. Very sad.

To each their own I guess, but I have to say I love animals, that is why I devote my time here, volunteering, to help animals and want the best of care for them if they get hurt or sick. 
If I cannot figure out treatment, I will indeed call a vet or advise others to do the same. It is good to have a vet on hand for the just in cases.

You are very lucky your goat is strong in fighting the venom. Most other animals wouldn't be that lucky.

We are not here to bash you, we are here for the animals and what we feel may be best for them. 
If members do not like the advice, that is fine, we tried. Glad the goat is OK.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Would icthammol (black drawing salve) help at this point? My husband uses it on boils and it really works.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Idahogoats said:


> Try some tea tree oil mixed with olive oil. That willnumb the area, reduce swelling and disinfect.
> Good luck.
> Idaho goats


Oh yeah! Tea Tree Oil is wonderful!


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Idahogoats said:


> Try some tea tree oil mixed with olive oil. That willnumb the area, reduce swelling and disinfect.
> Good luck.
> Idaho goats


Thanks for the suggestion. At this point I don't know if the introduction of any new elements would serve to actually be of some benefit or cause some unfavorable chemical interactions. Had you mentioned that a few days ago I probably would have tried that as I personally prefer olive oil to petrolatum.

I've elected to commit to follow some professional advice and have adopted what I feel is a so so regimen of treatment. I'll wait a few more days and re-visit the regimen plan again but the advances are slow in coming now.

Those ears have taken the brunt of this treatment process

Starting tomorrow, I plan to introduce extra zinc to the food as another hedge against infection.

I will make a note of your suggestion though, for later.

Thanks very much!

-Harry


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> You are very lucky your goat is strong in fighting the venom. Most other animals wouldn't be that lucky.


Bee venom has actually been used medically and it has been effective in treating arthritis, as an immune system stimulant, and oddly enough, it is a remarkable anti-inflammatory agent.

You know animals though. A dog can go into the street and eat the 7 day old carcass of road-kill in the street and sail smoothly through the rest of its life but if you or I would do it...


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Would icthammol (black drawing salve) help at this point? My husband uses it on boils and it really works.


Most of those stingers are out now. I find one only on the rare occasion of feeling around on her fur and usually they are just in the hair residually and not in the skin.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I really wonder if she will lose part of that cracked ear...


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

jschies said:


> I really wonder if she will lose part of that cracked ear...


Yeah me too. I couldn't have anticipated the skin would split like it did. With hindsight being better than foresight, I would have applied copious amounts of olive oil from the get go.

What was happening below the surface of the skin was the important part. The layers had become separated (two days) and it eventually exposed about 3 cm^2 of hypodermal fatty tissue. The upper part of that area just dried up and atrophied. (Someone had suggested button stitches but the damage had been done. Stitches at that point would not have achieved anything but keeping the area covered with unviable skin.) The opposite ear does show some minor signs of strain but there are no splits like what you saw.

The areas at the very tips of the ears are still hard like un-tanned leather. If she loses those areas I would consider it minimal damage considering the whole. -h


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Honsby said:


> Bee venom has actually been used medically and it has been effective in treating arthritis, as an immune system stimulant, and oddly enough, it is a remarkable anti-inflammatory agent.
> 
> You know animals though. A dog can go into the street and eat the 7 day old carcass of road-kill in the street and sail smoothly through the rest of its life but if you or I would do it...


 Yes , I am aware of bee sting therapy for arthritis, it is a controlled environment and not overly done, to prevent major reactions.

Eww, road kill.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

After more research the petrolatum may not be the best course of action with those ears. If toxins were present and trying to exit the skin, the petrolatum would have prevented that. Considering a switch. Thoughts?

Also added zinc to the drinking water. Five 50 mg tabs to three gallons.

For anyone who would want to view the extent of ear damage to date see this link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzehAfvT64DnR2JqWDRvY1JPams?usp=sharing


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Some other suggestions:

Aloe vera, fresh or from a bottle, true aloe vera.

Baking soda paste for pain, itching, irritation.

Witch hazel or apple cider with a cotton ball to itchy or swollen spots, to relieve irritation and itching.

A teaspoon of epsom salts dissolved into 2 cups of warm water, may help draw out infection, soak the ears if possible, but be sure it doesn't get into her eyes.

Cold compresses for swelling.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Some other suggestions:
> 
> Aloe vera, fresh or from a bottle, true aloe vera.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions.

What about olive oil, honey, turpentine, and Vitamin E? The few drops of turpentine is to repel flies, etc.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

By all rights this goat should be dead. The final count of stings was approximately 100 with 20-25 in each ear.

I appreciate the help you all offered.

Today the lower 1/3 part of her right ear separated totally and the left ear is looking like it will separate soon.

She's head butting and jumping around so it really can't be determined the extent of pain she's having. Yesterday I ended the zinc regimen and started 15 gm of ascorbic acid to their three gallon bucket.

Here is a link to some hi-rez photos of her ears as of the 17th. Just an FYI for those that can stomach it. -Harry

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzehAfvT64DnS3dOZHRVSUV0eVU?usp=sharing


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Wow. I can't imagine how she must have felt that first week! Is she acting "normal" now with the head butting and jumping around?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

jschies said:


> Wow. I can't imagine how she must have felt that first week! Is she acting "normal" now with the head butting and jumping around?


Very few could imagine it. The most stings I have been able to manage so far is 7.

She started her 'goatieness' about a week after having been stung but she's about 80%, i.e., eating with some vigor, jumping off the deck rail, browsing, play head butting, coming to be petted, etc. I wish I was as active as she is.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Does her ears stink bad at all?

It looks very painful.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow, just read through this post...that is an amazingly strong will goat!! Honey would be my choice of salve ....but then you worry about flies and ants loving it too. witch hazel with Lavender ess. oil works well ...I was so happy to read she is doing so well...amazing


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Does her ears stink bad at all?
> 
> It looks very painful.


No stink at all. The ointment being used has some medicinal aroma to it. She's getting aspirin in the water bucket. The worst is over but it will be a while before she trusts me enough to get within 3 feet of her.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

happybleats said:


> wow, just read through this post...that is an amazingly strong will goat!! Honey would be my choice of salve ....but then you worry about flies and ants loving it too. witch hazel with Lavender ess. oil works well ...I was so happy to read she is doing so well...amazing


She was bred for the rodeo. You know, where the young pokes practice their ropin' and a tyin'. I was also told that she was bred for that extra pound or three of meat.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Silver Sol?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Silver Sol?


You know what they say about great minds...

There is no 'Silver SOl' per se but yesterday her ear wounds were cleansed with a solution of distilled water / colloidal silver soap. (The soap was swished around in the water until foamy and just that was used with a sponge.)

That was followed up with the 5% Boric Acid / 95% lanolin emollient preparation and left unwrapped.

She will be fine in a few days and besides the obvious disfigurement and scars, she's ready for the camera... as soon as I find it.

-Harry


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Update: Yesterday 7/20

She remained elusive and wily so we just let her be until the 20th.

We managed to catch her by the collar at her food bowl and were able to cleanse the wounds and provide some treatment.

700 mg of Aspirin had been placed in the water bucket for the last two days.










This link is to some Hi Rez pics of her current state and what the treatment looks like.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzehAfvT64DnZThUdmVwUEttS0k


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Honsby said:


> You know what they say about great minds...
> 
> There is no 'Silver SOl' per se but yesterday her ear wounds were cleansed with a solution of distilled water / colloidal silver soap. (The soap was swished around in the water until foamy and just that was used with a sponge.)
> 
> ...


I hear what you're putting down....


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> A teaspoon of epsom salts dissolved into 2 cups of warm water, may help draw out infection, soak the ears if possible, but be sure it doesn't get into her eyes.


I looked at this again. You don't know that I'm also a hobby hydroculturalist and I see MgSO4 (Epsom Salts) as an extremely potent growth aid for certain organisms especially yeasts and bacterias.

I might not want to put that directly 'on' a wound but putting some in their water is another thing altogether. 1/4 tsp in 3 gallons would do it I believe.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Tails up!

The time has come to finish out what has been an unusual situation.

As you might remember, Patches was stung by over a 100 bees when she got herself caught in a fence panel and banged the fencing on the hive trying to get out.

When I got to her she was still standing but absolutely still.

The treatment started right away with Benadryl tabs mixed with ice water and when she later refused the liquid cherry flavor I used a 40ml syringe.

Her ears began to swell but she began eating again within days. *(In hindsight: Continual cold compresses would have been the best choice to make, I believe.)*

The swelling burst the outer skin of both ears and the very tips showed signs of atrophy, first hardening at the very tips then splitting in the areas where the blood circulation was minimal. About 1/3 of each ear fell away after a few weeks.

Within a few days, as the swelling diminished, stingers that had not fallen out had begun to harden making it easier to locate and remove them. Jostling stingers around only serves to make them inject MORE venom especially when fresh. Eventually those stingers below the flesh line were encapsulated with pus and ejected naturally. *(In hindsight: Trying to locate and remove 100 stingers in fur is nigh impossible and the decision to wait a few days was a good one, I believe. ) 
*
Ongoing applications of 95% lanolin and 5% boric acid were established, as well as amendments to the water supply, e.g., zinc tablets and ascorbic acid (to remove chlorine). (Other poultices were used... Olive Oil and other commercially prepared products. ) Collodial Silver would have been used but I didn't think about it until later as things were beginning to look good. *(In hindsight: Get a prescription for some Collodial Silver to have on hand.)*

A preparation that worked exceptionally well, although I wasn't able to order it for two-three weeks, was MEBO. It's a natural moisturizing product from China that contains, among other things, worms. No kidding! It made perfect sense to me once I used it but you don't have to take my word for it. Whatever a worm does to keep itself slick in dry ground works above ground too. lol

*The pictures:
*
There is one spot still on her left ear that hasn't fully scarred over. That area will be monitored for carcinoma but the immediate surrounding dome has been healing slowly which is presumably due to lack of circulation in that area.

The margins on the right ear seem to be healed nicely.

There is a mass of something that I can't make out. Perhaps someone has an idea about what that could be?

*Final thoughts:*

I'm not going to say that you should have you goats undergo bee sting therapy but I actually believe Patches is stronger than ever. Though not as aloof as she once was, she hasn't lost her friendliness or knack for how to get attention.

Her eyes sparkle and she is very alert, with an erect tail again.

Thanks for your help & friendship. -Harry


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## Idahogoats (Sep 5, 2016)

Poor baby. Did you ever try any tea tree oil or Solumel which you mix with water and spray on her stings? That will help disinfect and draw out the poison.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You did good.

Thanks for the update.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is healing well.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Glad she's doing well


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

WOW! What a wonderful job you did! I know it was a touch and go, and emotions were running high, however you rose above all that, asked for advice, and used what made sense to you. And, it worked out great for your goat. I am printing our your last post, just in case I have to deal with bee stings. Thanks for the update!


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Idahogoats said:


> Poor baby. Did you ever try any tea tree oil or Solumel which you mix with water and spray on her stings? That will help disinfect and draw out the poison.


No. By the time that suggestion was made we had a regimen in place. It's definitely a good suggestion and will be noted in the treatment diary.


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## kathy_ (Mar 10, 2017)

I can't be so nice, I believe had someone from the ASPCA seen your goat in that condition they would have took your goat from you and took it to the nearest vet. I don't think you used any suggestions offered to you on this post, it seems to me you needed to prove to someone how smart you are yet your poor goat suffered tremendously and will be scarred for life. Now that I have said my piece I have one question, do you know what karma means?


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Pam, Karen and Suzanne. I appreciate your contributions too and hope this thread will help someone else.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

kathy_ said:


> I can't be so nice, I believe had someone from the ASPCA seen your goat in that condition they would have took your goat from you and took it to the nearest vet. I don't think you used any suggestions offered to you on this post, it seems to me you needed to prove to someone how smart you are yet your poor goat suffered tremendously and will be scarred for life. Now that I have said my piece I have one question, do you know what karma means?


Hmmm Karma... that's something you dip apples in for the Fall celebration isn't it?


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## kathy_ (Mar 10, 2017)

That's it.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Thanks for the update!


No problemo. It's time to move on.


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