# I need a lot of help and preparation.



## faintinggoat (Jun 19, 2014)

The last forum I posted got one response. Maybe I posted in wrong spot. Anyway, here they are.
I'm getting two fainting goat kids and need to have some questions answered.
A. What do they eat and how much? I know hay and grains, but amounts? Anything else?
B. winter preparations? I live in south eastern mi
C. What vaccines do I need to give it? They will be my pet goats.
D. What is their height, weight, size, etc.?
E. should it be debudded?
Answers to these questions are greatly appreciated. Please answer!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Debuding is a preference thing, many like to have horns, many do not, I tend to be a if god put it there leave it there guy, but there are situations that require hornless animal, and I don't judge those who do.

There are better people to answer the other questions, bump!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

As far as horns, what can you handle? Do you have children? If the goats have horns, you must be aware of where those horns are at all times. I can tell you from experience that it really hurts and leaves bruises if a body part is in the way when a goat turns their head and the horns hit you. So you need to be honest with yourself if you can always be aware when in their area. I don't have the time to worry about being aware of horns.

As far as hay and feed, it really depends what is in your area. How much depends on how young they are when you get them.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

The problem is that the questions you are asking can't be answered...except to say "it depends".

A. What do they eat and how much? I know hay and grains, but amounts? Anything else? Depends on how old they are, how big they are, what you are doing with them, etc. 
B. winter preparations? I live in south eastern mi Depends on what you have available now, how much snow, rain, heat you get, etc.
C. What vaccines do I need to give it? They will be my pet goats. Some people vaccinate, some don't, depends on your personal preference as well as any city regulations etc.
D. What is their height, weight, size, etc.? Depends on the bloodlines, how they were cared for, how well they were fed, etc.
E. should it be debudded? Depends on your personal preference. What type of fences you have (or will have) if you have young children at eye level to horns, etc.

Your best bet is to just read, read, and read some more.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Hay can be fed free choice, along with browse and such. Once you know how old and big the goats are we can decide how much grain would be best for them. They will also need a loose mineral mix(no blocks). Look into manna pro, sweetlix, and available cattle mixes. Have they been dewormed? If not, look into getting a fecal done and worming them appropriately. Ivermectin is a popular goat wormer....

The goats will do fine during the winter as long as the house is draft free and they have bedding of some kind to snuggle in. Goats HATE being wet, so no leaks! Keep them out of the wind and wet and they'll survive. Also consider strong doors and locks, and high fencing, if there are lots of dogs and wildlife in your area. You don't want to lose them to the neighbor's pet, or a coyote or whatnot.

If you have small children around I would disbud for their safety. Goats can cause bruises with horns, even accidentally. I personally think horns are a pain in the butt(literally!). Of course you make the final call on that one.

Good luck with your new goats!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

We figure one ton of hay per adult goat per year. That seems to work out about right. 

Fainters have a pretty big size spread between pet bred ones and meat bred ones. They will be around the same size as their parents.


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## faintinggoat (Jun 19, 2014)

What about minerals and salt licks?


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Get a loose mineral mix, blocks are too hard for them to eat. You want a mineral high in copper...Good mixes are manna pro, sweetlix, Cargill onx, and good quality cattle blends. Bad choices would be Purina(too much Salt, not enough copper) and sheep mixes.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Depending on where you are, you may also need to copper bolus and give a Selenium supplement.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You also want to keep up with cocci prevention and deworming. Keep a good eye on weight, condition, appetite etc. 
Also, you may choose to do CD&T vaccine. I do mine at 1 month and 2 months, then once yearly.


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

Fresh hay, fresh CLEAN water , loose minerals are a good place to start - then you can give more info and pix and we can help more-


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Since they will probably be around 3 months old (typical weaning age) when you get them, I would start them out at 2 1/2 to 3 lbs of good alfalfa hay. The next day check their pen when you feed again and if there is wasted hay cut them down a bit. If they are hollowed out in front of their hip bones increase the hay a bit. As far as how much grain goes, for 2 kids I would start them out at 1/4 lb of a good goat grower pellet for both kids. When they clean that up, increase by 1/4 lb. Keep doing that until you have them slowly worked up to a lb each.

The rule of thumb when building/buying shelter is to allow 10 to 15 square feet for each animal. If you are planning to feed inside, you also need to take feeders, water tubs, and mineral feeders into consideration so when they are added the goats still have enough room. By the time winter gets here they will have some age and size on them so you will mainly need to minimize drafts, face your shed/shelter away from incoming storms, use barn lime/sweet pdz to control ammonia, and keep it bedded about fetlock deep so they will stay warm. Do not keep them shut up for long periods of time. Sunlight and fresh air go a long ways towards killing bacteria and keeping them healthy. Used carpet makes good insulation when tacked/nailed up on the inside of the shed/shelter. I do not clean out sheds during the winter time. I allow the manure pack to build up because as it decomposes it puts off heat which helps keep my girls warm.

The generally accepted vaccination for goats is CD&T. If you have a good goat vet in your area, talk to him/her about other vaccinations you may need to consider. 

I cannot help you with size, weight, or height because I'm not familiar with Fainters and there are too many things that can affect growth.

Disbudding is a personal choice. I do not disbud my goats. Their horns act as radiators to keep them cooler in the summer time, and I like the look of horns. Horns can cause a few problems, however. I've been raked by them a few times, had them in my pockets and caught in my t-shirt now and then, and been accidentally hit by them on occasion. If you are using cattle panels or field fence for fencing, horns also contribute to goats getting their heads stuck in the fencing. Personally, I don't think it's a big enough problem to warrant disbudding my goats. I hope this helps.


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## faintinggoat (Jun 19, 2014)

MsScamp said:


> Since they will probably be around 3 months old (typical weaning age) when you get them, I would start them out at 2 1/2 to 3 lbs of good alfalfa hay. The next day check their pen when you feed again and if there is wasted hay cut them down a bit. If they are hollowed out in front of their hip bones increase the hay a bit. As far as how much grain goes, for 2 kids I would start them out at 1/4 lb of a good goat grower pellet for both kids. When they clean that up, increase by 1/4 lb. Keep doing that until you have them slowly worked up to a lb each.
> 
> The rule of thumb when building/buying shelter is to allow 10 to 15 square feet for each animal. If you are planning to feed inside, you also need to take feeders, water tubs, and mineral feeders into consideration so when they are added the goats still have enough room. By the time winter gets here they will have some age and size on them so you will mainly need to minimize drafts, face your shed/shelter away from incoming storms, use barn lime/sweet pdz to control ammonia, and keep it bedded about fetlock deep so they will stay warm. Do not keep them shut up for long periods of time. Sunlight and fresh air go a long ways towards killing bacteria and keeping them healthy. Used carpet makes good insulation when tacked/nailed up on the inside of the shed/shelter. I do not clean out sheds during the winter time. I allow the manure pack to build up because as it decomposes it puts off heat which helps keep my girls warm.
> 
> ...


Best answer ive got! Thanks!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Just a bit of an add on about horns-

some insurance companies are causing a problem about horned goats, unless the horns hook back like a Boers do. 

I will not own a horned animal because of the problems with horns. My friend lost several goats when they got their heads caught in a fence, a hay feeder and the crook of a tree. Some suffocated and some were butted by another goat and the neck broken. I had one that I got as a horned adult who got his horns caught in a horses halter. When the horse lifted its head, the goats neck snapped. For their own safety, I will not have horns.

I also have a large scar on my right thigh. It has been there for 30 years. It came from a horned rescue Alpine/Togg doe who was sweet as pie. One day she jumped off the milk stand and suddenly zigged when she was supposed to have zagged. My upper leg got between her back and the tip of her horn. As she landed and her head jerked back, the tip of the horn went into my leg, ripping muscle and skin and hitting the femur. The scar is about 5 inches long. Just think if that had been a child.

However, if your kids are older, they would have to be banded or have the horns removed surgically.

I give CDT, 3 shots as a kid, one as a yearling and then no more until they are 5 years old.

I start giving cocci prevention when they are 14 days old, and every 3 weeks after than until they are eating the appropriate amount of medicated feed for their size. I keep them on the medicated feed until their first frost.

I de-worm as need when checked by a fecal.

My kids get free choice medicated kid grower until the first front, then they start getting regular dairy feed twice a day. Free choice grass/weed hay (all we can get in my area). I add soaked beet pulp to their grain in the winter for the extra moisture and calories. Free choice loose minerals. I add a calcium supplement to their minerals to balance out the high phosphorus hay. Fresh, cool water. 

If you have boys as pets, you will want them wethered (castrated). You will need to have them on a balanced calcium/phosphorus diet or get a grain or mineral with ammonium chloride added to keep their urinary tract healthy and free of crystals. (also called urinary calculi or UC)

Will you have does that will be bred or are they just pets? Does carrying and feeding kids require a higher level of feed than a pet wether.

For their barn, I have mine in a pen inside a barn. The door is usually always open 24/7 so they can go outside at will. I close it when it gets bitterly cold in the winter or it snows or the rain is cold. Ok, or very icy. I put a layer of dry shavings on the floor and top it with some loose straw in the winter. In the warmer months, they just have the shavings. Goats can handle very cold weather, you just need their area to be draft free. I have toys in the outside pen for them to climb on. The more active a goat is, the healthier they are. A pregnant doe will have an easier labor and delivery if she has daily exersize . Kids who are active grow faster and stronger.

You will finsd that every goat person has their own way of doing things. Read all you can for the basics and try different things. You will find a feed and a system that works best for you and your little herd.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

If they will be pets that are handled frequently and around children, hornless goats would be the safest choice. If you want horned goats then that's your decision and a possible risk you choose to keep.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

canyontrailgoats said:


> If they will be pets that are handled frequently and around children, hornless goats would be the safest choice.


I have to disagree with this statement to a fairly large degree. I do not raise my goats to be pets, but that doesn't mean that I don't have a number of girls who did not get/ignored that memo - especially the bottle babies. My girls have never, ever deliberately or intentionally hit me with their horns. In fact, they are very good about not hitting me the vast majority of the time. The only time I have ever been raked or hit by their horns is when I didn't notice the mineral feeders were empty and was refilling them, and the first day or two of resuming feeding grain and couldn't lock them out of the pen. In both cases, all I have to do is smack them on their little pointed head with the mineral scoop or smack them across the chest with a dowel and they back off. I have lost one doe due to having her head stuck in the fence and being broadsided by another doe. I can also see where adding children into the mix would change things, but I know too many people that have children and raise horned cattle with no problems to believe it can't be done with goats. Granted, I don't have children so maybe I would feel differently if I did. A disbudded goat can get spooked, hit you and do as much damage as a horned goat - it is up to the owner to respect their horns and always be aware of them. Sorry, Canyontrail, I'm not singling you out - I'm just getting a little tired of the bs about why it's ok, even recommended, to disbud goats.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

faintinggoat said:


> Best answer ive got! Thanks!


Not a problem!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Horns are a personal choice. Everyone must at some time make that choice. Nobody needs preached to about it or have people dissing him for his choice. I have my goats disbuded by my vet, I have the beginning of MS and am not always too steady on my feet. I often use my pack boy, Bean, as a help to keep my balance by holding on to the top strap on his saddle. My DH was partially crippled several years ago and has had a long recovery. He is now training his goat, Onyx, the same way. We feel horns would be too much to deal with but, we still want to go out and hike as far as we can. This is our choice at this time in our life. We have had horned goats in the past with no issues. My older team who all, except Jeter, passed over the last 4 years were mostly horned. 
I feel I give value for value to my boys. For the act of being disbudded and later nipped, they get to live a long happy life. They get to explore and hike the forest, mountains, and beach as a herd with their people. 
My girls are milk goats and are kept through old age. They also get value as spoiled pets. 

I am not pointing fingers at anyone, and wouldn't, and I feel everyone should have their opinion. I think the OP would like his tidbits of help with out this turning into the horns verses non-horns war though.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Jill, your statement about why you disbud your goats is something I can understand and totally respect. If your statement about dissing someone's choice was aimed at me, it was not my intent to disrespect anyone's choice. It's a free world and anyone can choose to do whatever they like at any time, but base that decision on facts. I also agree 100% that anyone who chooses to own goats will have to decide how to handle horns. I simply have a problem with people skewing things instead of presenting simple facts, and holding up one example of what _can_ happen if you choose to leave your goats horns on. That is one-sided, unfair and, to my mind, propaganda. In all fairness, I absolutely detest de-horning and disbudding, so my view point on the subject is admittedly skewed, as well. At least I'm honest enough to admit it. Again, it was not my intent to disrespect anyone, and I sincerely apologize for that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No no, not pointing at anyone and certainly not at you. We that know you do know your choice and understand why. 

I just didn't want to see a 4 page argument about horns start over simple question from a beginner who doesn't know what a red flag the word "horns" can be. 

Somewhere on here there's a long discussion about this that never disintegrated into argument. I will try to find it and post a link for the OP.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I understand your pov msScamp, personally I dislike them because of all the scars and bruises that appeared on my body! Mostly by accident too...to each his own, horned or not they're still goats 

Faintinggoats, good luck with whatever you decide and make sure to post pics when you bring your new goaties home!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am finding so far it is not only individual people's choices but also individual goats too. I like horns....but just banded my saanen because she is so flighty (not afraid flighty, just dumb flighty  ) I currently have horned and disbudded goats, along with a dehorned goat.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

So, there are as many reasons to disbud as there are not to! What are you and your goats relationship, limitations, and needs going to look like, that seems to be the common factors in the reasons why and also why not. 

I work with everything from chainsaws to 3hp metal lathes/wood lathes so I am very used to keeping myself out of the dangerous areas, and I like to believe I am tough! So it doesn't bother me, and I want my son to learn to respect danger and know how to control his actions around it. Plus angoras have very swept back horns, that are far less likely to impale than some others!

So consider your breed of goat, and your limitations and make a well informed decision based on the needs of you and your family, other animals, as well as your goats!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Agreed Chadwick


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Love that new avatar canyontrail who is it?


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

She's Bitsy! My fat, lazy, extremely affectionate and annoying nubian/boer doe, who I'm angry with because she didn't have kids this year(apparently she not attracted to "short men" ie dwarf bucks!)

I was TRYING to take pics of the new baby, but she kept eating my kindle screen. So I let her smile in the camera for me, and be the center of attention. Again.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

She's a cutie!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks, she's definitely a special one


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