# Guardian advice



## HeavenViewRanch (Feb 21, 2015)

I live in the high desert of California and need a protector that will help with coyotes bear and mountain lion, but still be able to handle the weather extremes. They will be guarding goats, chickens and a steer. So llama vs dog vs donkey. :whatgoat:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would need multiple dogs. I wouldn't even consider llamas or donkeys against bear or lion.


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## HeavenViewRanch (Feb 21, 2015)

I don't have the money or space for multiple dogs we are on 3.5 acres the animals mainly need to warn me of bear the bear are so stinking slow here. the other day my uncle watched a bear sit in his yard for 30 minutes before it even started looking at the chickens. and there are usually 3 that come to the houses a year. main concern is coyote and occasional lion.


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## HeavenViewRanch (Feb 21, 2015)

I have 2 dogs that will warn but they aren't able to be with the animals.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

For those kinds of predators, I wouldn't have less than two Anatolian shepherds. Three would be better. I'd go with a Turkish livestock guarding breed since they do well in that kind of climate and they are usually more aggressive than Great Pyrenees. You will need good fences that will keep them in since you have a small average and you don't want them roaming onto neighbors property. If you can't do that a donkey would be your best bet but I don't know if a donkey would be enough to make a bear or cougar stay away.


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## HeavenViewRanch (Feb 21, 2015)

Aren't mountain lions smaller than coyotes though? why do i need more to fend them off?


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Multiple dogs. No llamas or donkeys. A cougar or bear is more likely to laugh at a llama or donkey than to run from it.

Any breed of Livestock Guardian Dog would work. There are varying degree of "aggressiveness" between the breeds and even some within the breed. Other things to take in to consideration are what your human load is...do you have visitors over a lot? Who takes care of your animals when you are gone? Are you in an area with lots of human traffic? How much do you expect the dog to bond to you? These questions will help you decide what breed of dog you might want as well.

For any breed of Livestock Guardian Dog, you will need to make sure you have good fencing, adequate water and shade in the summer, and shelter in the winter.

Cougars are bigger than coyotes. Bobcats are a similar size depending on the individual Bobcat or coyote.

If you can't do dogs, another option would be investing in a high powered electric fence and setting that up properly around your property.


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

HeavenViewRanch said:


> Aren't mountain lions smaller than coyotes though? why do i need more to fend them off?


Coyotes will put their tail between their legs and run from a mountain lion! 
Coyotes(depended on the type) tend to be tall but lanky, while mountain lions are very muscular and not much smaller then a coyote(if not the same size or slightly bigger, depending on type of coyote).

Mountain lions are extremely powerful, vicious, straight to the kill predators, compared to coyotes who prefer to play games and lure their prey away ( to the coyotes friends waiting in the bushes to help with the killing) with nipping, biting, false playing and things, but of course will go straight for a kill if the target is something soft and simple like small livestock or poultry.
Coyotes will hunt alone but in general they like to hunt in small groups of two or three while a mountain lion is usually a solitary hunter. Coyotes in general are opportunist hunters and prefer easy targets while a mountain lion will go after anyone and anything.

Two dogs could probably keep the coyote's at bay, but then it comes to mountain lions the dogs could just as easily be added to the menu or at least be a relatively simple to remove road block.

Mountain lions in general are stronger then a canine. Canines and mountain lions(felines) also have different hunting and fighting styles. Hence why canines in general work in groups while felines in general are solitary hunters.

If you have a desirable food source for a mountain lion, it will be more then happy to fight and kill off two dogs even if it takes a few return trips


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Very good points MoonShadow!


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm also in the high desert, and I'm getting an anatolian/pyr mix, to start. I definitely don't want to overwork one juvenile dog. The breeder I bought from lives nearby, maybe not quite as remote as I am, but she has two to three dogs in each animal pen. Her does, her bucks, and her alpacas. That is my goal.


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