# Buck Problems



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sorry, this is a long read.

I recently posted a different thread about our new(ish) buck, who kept jumping our electric fences to get in with the does. When we'd put him in the cattle panels - that make up for his night pasture - he would jump them, too. He also had no respect for the electric fencing we had set up for him.
So yesterday, when I had a little time to spare (I was watching/taking care of four of my younger siblings while my parents and other four siblings were gone) I added two more wires to his electric paddock.
But, I completely forgot about separating "Buck" (haven't figured out a name for him yet) and Benji from the rest of the herd that night.
Usually, every morning we take most of the does (only leaving the little kids and the bucks behind) a little ways up our driveway to an electric pasture. At night we bring them back, let the kids nurse - if we weren't planning on milking the next morning - and then, since Buck simply WILL NOT stay in his pen, we lock the goat kids (and the does we don't want Buck to breed) in the lean-to at the barn.
As I said before, last night I just forgot about the locking up part.  

Of course, Midge and Annie were in heat this morning. Midge was in a raging standing heat, and I came outside just in time to see Buck mounting her. Benji did the same. I yanked Midge outside of the "chicken pasture" as we call it (this was before Buck figured out that he could jump that fence too) and immediately Buck and Benji turned on Annie, our 1 1/2 year old Alpine doe, who, like I said, was also in heat. The two bucks went crazy. It took fifteen minutes (at least) to get them both in the buck paddock (where I had sured up the electric fence the night before) but it didn't help any. Buck charged through it, not caring one bit that it was hot wire, and he resumed his act with Annie. Benji soon followed.

After that my younger sister and I hurriedly brought all of the does up the road - our driveway - and into their electric pasture. I put the three young kids (Hildy, Nebs and Geoffrey) in the lean-to, and quickly set up a little paddock for them using electric hog fencing.
I left Buck and Benji in the chicken pasture. I was relieved that Buck hadn't figured out a way to get out of that - yet.
But that relief was not to last. About an hour ago, I went outside to check on Annie (she was really shaken up by this whole ordeal) and while I was out there Buck jumped the chicken pasture fence, and went jogging up the road to the does' pasture, and in he went to Midge, who was gleefully waiting for him. I pulled him out of there as fast as I could and led him back to the barn, where I put him in a different lean-to, made originally for the cows. And can you guess what happened next? Yep, he jumped that too. I was thrilled. But, luckily, he had jumped it and gone into the cows' larger barn pasture (which is empty of cows right now because they are up front on pasture). He went straight to the far end of it, which is adjoining the does' electrified day pasture. Midge was only too pleased to see him again. (see below pic)










As of right now he still hasn't figured out a way to get over that fence to be with Midge. And Midge can't get to him because, I don't know if you can see in the picture, there are two strands of electric fence to keep her in, and she, out of all of my goats, has the highest respect for electrified fences.

Anyway, my main reason for writing this whole thing was to get y'alls advice. I surely need it!

Right now it is possible that two of my does, whom I was planning on breeding to Benji, are bred to a big 'ol Nubian buck (Buck). Midge is a Mini-Lamancha (her dam was 87 percent Lamancha/13 percent ND, and her sire was 50/50) and Annie is a purebred Alpine, and pretty small for age, like her mother was.
I witnessed them each being bred multiple times by both Buck and Benji.
So, I can either wait it out (and make sure that if they are in fact pregnant, I have a vet on standby) or I can give Lute in ten days or so. Both have risks. What do you think? And any suggestions on how I can keep Buck penned? I will have to sell him (sooner then I thought I'd have to) if I can't.

Left to right - Verity (purebred Lamancha doe, same age as Midge); Matilda, a 2 year old Nubian FF; and Midge herself.









Below: Midge right next to Vivian, a 3 year old Nubian doe (second freshener).










Annie, picture taken 1 1/2 weeks ago.










Last time I checked on Annie today she was in a hunched position, sort of like she looks in this picture (taken today). Her vulva is very swollen as well, and she looks uncomfortable.










And here is the infamous "Buck". Previous owners said that he is full Nubian (no papers though). To me he looks to have a little bit of Boer in him. Either way, he is a big boy.










Open to any and all advice! Thanks in advance!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

"Buck" is still on the other side of the fence from Midge, Annie and the other does. I am going out soon to try and put up a REAL electric fence around the buck pen.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If it were my goats, I'd "lute" them if they did not come back in heat in 3 weeks time.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

As for "Buck" - sometimes it very hard to get an older buck that was not taught to behave himself or is obsessed to the point of no respect for fences. I wouldn't keep him - he probably will figure out a way to breed everyone that catches his eye. I agree, he doesn't look full nubian to me.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

As much as I don't like lute I think I would for sure go ahead and lute the mini for sure. That is really chancing her life I would think (not a dairy pro) if you have a good relationship with your vet then he/she will also be there to help you if she doesn't breed later on. 
For buck, hot hot is the hot fence? Do you know how many joules? Is he touching the hot fence when he jumps or just clearing it. If it seems the hot fence is not bothering him I would find the hottest dang unit you can find and hook up. I got so annoyed with my goats not respecting the fence so that's what I got and nothing goes near it. Depending on how much you want to keep him any way to make something up, either that you have or start new, that is totally inclosed......I'm talking 4 sides with a roof either wood or wire/ panels on top. Me though I would probably just send down the road. I've tried to make fence jumpers behave and they still end up just ticking me off. I decided that if they make my blood boil they leave because it won't be fun any more and I'll end up selling everything off if I put up with it


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Lute in 14 days.


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

I would think goats have to be trained to hot wire just like a dog is trained to under ground fencing. I would put fence flags out to give him a visual. Walk him up to the hot wire and get him to touch it with his nose. They do not get the shock if they jump the fence. You may have to walk him up and have him touch it a few times since he is so head strong. If he won't touch it again then you should have made a point. If not get a electrical collar and when he approaches the fence within 3 feet tap him with the collar to teach him to stay back from the fence. Since he has successfully jumped it it will take a lot of patience and hard work to get the message across to him. Keep us posted.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

You have a 3 board fence with what looks like substantial posts, I would add a couple more boards and use tall extenders at the top for hot wire. Given your bucks have no respect for hot wire, I would "build" a separate buck pen with at least 8 foot high wooden fencing and maybe run a strand of hot wire along the lower portion of it to hopefully keep him off the fence. 
My buck is in full rut right now, and the girls are really "interested". I keep a field between them at all times, and my buck stays in his pen/pasture with his blow up doll/ball.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

2 things we dont allow here. People aggressive bucks or any animal that jumps fences. If the buck is something you cant live without, you can hobble him. A small collar wrapped around one of this back legs tight enough to not come off but loose enough not to chaff. Take a lead and run his collar around his neck through the hand hole. Run the lead through the collar around his back ankle then back up to the collar around his neck and snap it onto the loop on the collar. Takes a bit of adjusting to find the correct length but pretty effective at keeping a goat from jumping. Over time regardless of how loose the collar around his back foot is, it will chaff. You can switch back legs every couple of weeks or as needed. Here we use 12' horse panels lined with combo cattle panels between the bucks and the does. But we do this so the bucks dont destroy the fence trying to get to the girls.


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## Oreosmom (Nov 19, 2016)

Too bad he's misbehaving, he sure is pretty.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I know nobody likes to tether goats, but if he was my goat I would give him a long rope, a strong collar, and a big tree or hitching post and be done with it, a dog house for a shelter would be OK, that's just me I DON'T tolerate jumpers, buck stew anyone?


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## Oreosmom (Nov 19, 2016)

spidy1 said:


> buck stew anyone? Boo spidy!! How about a spidy stew??? LOL Just teasing ya. They recently had goat meat chunks at the local WinCo. I wanted to buy some, my honey said NO!! Said I would be a traitor, and the goats would smell it on me and not love any more. Does all goat meat come in chunks? Or are there steaks? What does it taste like??
> Poor horny buck, he's just trying to do what bucks do. He can't help it. Hope you find a fix for his jumping. We broke one of our horses from jumping by tying his head down. It probably would work on a goat too! Good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Goat meat comes in any of the same cuts as cow.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

spidy1 said:


> I know nobody likes to tether goats, but if he was my goat I would give him a long rope, a strong collar, and a big tree or hitching post and be done with it, a dog house for a shelter would be OK, that's just me I DON'T tolerate jumpers, buck stew anyone?


I was thinking about this too. The 2 reasons why people don't tether is predators and getting tangled. If she can do something about predators then not getting tangled would be easy. If you feed the rope threw a old garden hose it can't tangle tight enough to cut off circulation to legs or anything. I would make sure he is in a pen by himself though so there's no chance of him getting it around another bucks neck. There was a gal that tethered her buck one night and the other one picked a fight. Found the chain around the other bucks neck and tree and it killed him


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Thank you all for the info!

I don't think I could trust Rudy (what we're calling him now) if I tethered him. He's just not the sharpest knife in the drawer and will probably kill himself. 
Yesterday, during all that frenzy, I hooked him up to a 4-5 foot lead rope to keep him out of the way. A couple minutes later, he was on the ground flailing, all tangled up. I'm afraid he'll break his neck or a leg. 

I think I am going to try again with the electric fence. I am going to make a really sturdy one with T-posts, and a lot of strands close together. Then I'll try to get him shocked.

The good news is, two of our other does came into heat today! :7up: Melody (14 month old Nubian) and Sage (16 month old Saanen). We put Sage in with Rudy, and Melody I put with Geoffrey, our not even 3 month old Nubian buckling. 
Until yesterday, Geoffrey had never mounted or chased any doe except for his mother, and his playmate, Nebs. But then yesterday - because of Rudy and Benji's escapade - he started chasing Hildy (5 month old Mini-Nubian) around everywhere and all the while blubbering like a fool. It was funny to watch, but I soon separated them because Hildy was freaking out with all the extra attention. 
Back to when I put Melody in with him: Geoffrey immediately started blubbering and sticking his tongue out again, and I witnessed him mount Melody at least 20 times during the next 10 minutes. I left them with each other for about an hour, and then as Melody was yelling like crazy, I took her out. 
I'm so excited! These were two breedings that we have actually been planning on.  I don't have a lot of hope with Melody being bred, seeing that Geoffrey is so young.

Okay. So I talked to my Mom a little about the possibility of luting, and she thinks we should wait it out. 
Honestly, I don't really want to lute. I hate the idea of aborting anything. I know that it would just be 10 days post breeding, but still I too, am leaning towards just waiting. But I have a few questions about it before I make my decision.

1) If we luted in 10-14 days, could we expect Annie and Midge to cycle again 21 days or so from the breeding date (yesterday)?
2) What are the chances that they wouldn't come back into heat because of luting?
3) Will it for sure eliminate the kid(s), not deform it/them or anything?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

To safely tie up a goat run a rope about six feet off the ground and knot a ring in It six feet from where it is tied up on each side... Oh geez I'll just show you tomorrow after the eclipse lol 

In a world of ordinary people a superman is not a king. 
He cannot rule the world. 
He is simply alone... 
Dean Koontz


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

1. They should come into a 'heat' about 24 to 48 hours after lute. That will basically be a false heat and there shouldn't be a egg there. Keep away from the buck just in case. But then they should go back into heat normally......if all goes well
2 the chance is there if becoming cystic. There was a post on here about a person that lured and the die became cystic because the egg got stuck (you would have to search for it.) I believe it was you who asked about lute before. I had used it many times. That one time I used it on over 20 does and 3 came up having issues to breed. 
3. I think the percentage of eleminating the kid is good. Years ago I luted a doeling and it didn't work but I also got it from a friend, maybe it was expired??? I'm not sure. All the other times I've used it it has worked. I don't think there is a risk of deformed kids, it's a hormone so I think it's pretty safe.
These are your goats and your call. If you want to wait it out wait it out. You have what 10ish days to decide. If you let them kid out I would just keep a eye on the mini that she doesn't get over weight or a crazy amount of grain the last month.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> I am going to make a really sturdy one with T-posts, and a lot of strands close together.


Please please use caps on the T-posts, if you've ever seen an animal impaled on one, you'd never use them otherwise!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Madgoat said:


> Please please use caps on the T-posts, if you've ever seen an animal impaled on one, you'd never use them otherwise!


Oh no! I've never heard of that happening before! The part of the fence that is running through the woods (in the chicken pasture) is made up of T-posts and wire mesh. Also out electric pastures have many T-posts in them.

So sorry if you've lost an animal that way.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> Oh no! I've never heard of that happening before! The part of the fence that is running through the woods (in the chicken pasture) is made up of T-posts and wire mesh. Also out electric pastures have many T-posts in them.
> 
> So sorry if you've lost an animal that way.


Oh, it wasn't my horse. I don't use them in my pastures with horses, and if I do use them on my property they are on the perimeter fence line, and they have caps, not only for the protection of "my" animals but because the deer love to jump in and out of our pastures and I would die if one of them got hurt. 
I guess I am OCD when it comes to stuff like this. I will inspect my barn, my paddocks, my pastures, my trees and bushes for things that any of my animals can get hurt on.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sorry, I didn't have any time to update until now.

Last night, after a couple attempts to lock Rudy up somewhere for the night, I put him and Benji in our dog kennel, which is located in the chicken pasture (mistake number one).
Now, I have some wood pallets on the floor of the dog kennel (which we turned into the goats' mineral room a while ago), and one of those pallets was in the way of the door, but not more than an inch I think. I was still able to latch the door though, and I added a few zip ties to the bottom of it to close it more securely. I was confident that there was no way at ALL that they would get out of there (mistake number two). As you can probably tell by now, I was wrong. 
When I locked them up in there, of course Melody and Sage (the two does in heat) were hanging around, wanting to get in with the bucks.

This morning, the kennel door was wide open and both bucks were out. With Melody. And all of the other goats. Thankfully, none of the other does were in heat, but I am so mad that Rudy got to Melody! I was really looking forward to knowing that she, for sure, had had no exposure to him, and was probably bred to 'lil Geoffrey.

But now, let's see,

Midge - bred to either Benji or Rudy (I'm guessing Rudy)
Annie - same as above
Sage - same as above
Melody - bred to Rudy, Benji or Geoffrey

It will be hard to tell whose kids are whose. 

Today I put Rudy up for sale. He's just become too much for me to handle! There is one doe that I "need" - want - to breed him to (she's the main reason we got another buck, she is an amazing doe and I wanted purebred kids out of her without having to breed her to her own son) but if he sells before she comes into heat I'll just breed her to Benji (Mini-Lamancha). Either way, her kids won't be registrable because of the unregisterable bucks. (Next year I want to get reg. ones!)

Oh, and when I went out there this morning, Melody's behind was swollen and pink, and it had a little blood on it. I assumed it was just because of the many breedings.
But, I also noticed that Benji's belly was bloody too, which I ALSO assumed was because he was able to breed Melody a lot (mistake number three!). But, later today I saw that there is blood sprinkled all around the mineral area, too much for it to be Melody. I am thinking that Rudy gored poor little Benji with one of his horns when they were in the kennel together.
I tried to get a closer look at Benji's stomach, but he was stinky and not in the mood. I didn't see any cuts or anything though. It is a mystery! He is/was acting normal though, so that's good...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't blame you for putting him up for sale. You have done A LOT to try and keep him. I wonder though if the one you for sure want bred to him if you just stick in with him if that would cool his jets a bit? Is there anyone else that is still open?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi, I think Buck is beautiful, I have never luted, and people here have given some great input.

The only thing I can add is an idea for keeping him from breeding whoever. One of my bucks, who is gorgeous, quite maneageable, normally extremely sweet, very healthy and hardy, is out of his mind in rut right now. He is climbing, jumping, bashing his way into or out of all my current fences. Right now he is in a small pen all by himself, and he is tethered inside that pen so he can't reach any of the fences. Also, no does can reach him, and no other bucks can reach him. No predators can reach him. He is not tangling himself. When a doe comes into heat that I want him to breed, then he is untethered. I don't keep him tethered for that!

I agree with everyone who says not to tether a goat. I just am at my wit's end. He is 2 now and just come into his own as the #1 buck on the farm. He did not learn this behaviour from the previous bucks, I've had him since he was 2 months old and taught him respectful behaviour. I don't do this lightly or casually. Poor guy!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I used to be so cocky about how well my bucks behaved...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Breeding apron......what about a breeding apron? If you search on here someone who has a very rare breed of goats has one for her buck so she can keep them all together all the time. But that way you can just keep them together and take it off when you want the ones bred by him come into heat........that's if you want to adjust your management. I personally would just send him down the road, there are good well behaved bucks out there but there is that option maybe if you wanted to


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> I don't blame you for putting him up for sale. You have done A LOT to try and keep him. I wonder though if the one you for sure want bred to him if you just stick in with him if that would cool his jets a bit? Is there anyone else that is still open?


I want to thank you so much for all of your input! It has helped me immensely!

Right now we have three other does we are going to breed this year. A Lamancha (16 months old) and two Nubians in milk. 
One of the Nubian does I'm probably going to breed to Geoffrey, and I'm not sure whether I want to breed Verity (Lamancha) to Geoffrey or Benji. She is due to cycle again in a week or so.

I put Rudy in with the does this morning while milking, and Rudy seemed really interested in my other open Nubian, Matilda - the one I really want bred to him. Matilda didn't like his method of flirting though (chasing her around rather aggressively and trying to mount her), but after a few minutes she stood still for him a couple times. To me she still doesn't seem in heat though. She is wagging her tail a little more than usual but at the same time keeping it down. Rudy is pacing the fence today.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

@mariarose - Thank you for the reply! Yesterday I tethered him and he lived (didn't get tangled up!).  It goes against the grain for me, but it worked well!

And as for the aprons... I actually bought two small ones a couple months ago. For Benji and Geoffrey. I really liked them until Benji started leaving his apron in different parts of the pasture. I tightened it a little, but to no avail. This morning he is in the chicken pasture with Rudy, and is wearing Geoffrey's apron (he lost his again, and I have yet to find it). I tightened it some more and will see if it stays on.

I thought about getting Rudy an apron, but 1) it takes a few weeks to ship here, and 2) they are expensive and I don't know whether or not he would keep it on! Although I think I will just go ahead and buy one for him. 
If he is sold before it gets here, or if he won't keep it on, then it was not a waste to buy because Geoffrey will eventually need a bigger one...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Jessica84 I'm not sure if you are asking me about mating aprons (because your suggestion followed one of my comments), or the OP (because you want to help the OP)

If it was to me, and ONLY if is was to me, I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to the use of mating aprons. I don't want to reiterate my stance here on someone else's thread thread though, because I've objected elsewhere and should not keep kicking a dead horse on other goat owners decisions on their own threads.

If you were suggesting that it would be easy for me to replace my buck, no, it would not. In my price range, he represents a sizeable investment that I can not easily turn my back on. Since this is the first time I've had an issue with him, and breeding season is upon me, and he is (normally) a really sweet manageable guy, AND the most expensive animal I own, I can't just chuck him. He is not dangerous, just more singleminded in the pursuit of buckdom than I've ever met. But no one should have to deal with a dangerous buck, I agree.

And if you did not mean me (and you probably did not!) then forgive me and I'll bow out


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> @Jessica84 I'm not sure if you are asking me about mating aprons (because your suggestion followed one of my comments), or the OP (because you want to help the OP)
> 
> If it was to me, and ONLY if is was to me, I am deeply and fundamentally opposed to the use of mating aprons. I don't want to reiterate my stance here on someone else's thread thread though, because I've objected elsewhere and should not keep kicking a dead horse on other goat owners decisions on their own threads.
> 
> ...


I did not but that's ok lol hey you know what I won't judge anyone on if they want or don't want to keep a animal. I am personally breaking my own rule right now with a buck I just purchased. He is also the most expensive goat here......no I take that back he is the most expensive animal on this place, more so then my bulls so when he attacked me sadly instead of shipping his behind out of here he now has a hotshot next to his gate to keep me safe and also to teach him this is not going to fly :/ so totally understand


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Goat_Scout said:


> And as for the aprons... I actually bought two small ones a couple months ago. For Benji and Geoffrey. I really liked them until Benji started leaving his apron in different parts of the pasture...


I use buck aprons so I can let my boys socialize with the herd during the day. To be safe, I lock the boys up at night or when any of the girls I don't want bred are actively in heat, but the aprons prevent any "oopses" if a girl suddenly comes in during the day and I don't notice for a few hours. I think allowing the boys to mingle helps keep them gentle and sane.

However, I had trouble with mine losing their aprons for a while last year and tightening didn't help. What did help was I tied a piece of parachute cord from the apron strap to the collar so the apron couldn't slide back. They haven't lost an apron since.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Jessica84 I sure would not want to be in the position of being in danger because of a buck. I feel for you. My buck is sweet to me, but hormone crazy just now. Of course it is wise to always be aware of bucks. Is yours normally OK, or is he always adversarial?

@Damfino That sounds like a terrific use of the aprons. Using them as a precaution, but not to keep bucks in with girls who are in full heat. I completely agree about the socialization keeping things calm and balanced. I've seen this for a fact, as many months of the year our herd is all together. Thanks for the idea. And the paracord tip.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yesterday one of my last three does came into heat. As a precaution I tied up Rudy in a pen so that he couldn't get to her (she would ONLY look at him, and I wanted her bred to Geoffrey!), and Benji (who is now following Rudy's bad example and jumping the chicken pasture fence ) I put his buck apron back on since he had got it off again. He's so small that the strap to tighten the apron was pretty long, so I just tied it to his collar, hoping that maybe, just maybe it'd stay on because of that. And it did!
@Damfino, I will replace it soon with parachute cord or something similar. That sounds like a better idea. Thanks!


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## Northwoods-Farm (Sep 30, 2016)

Pack up Rudy and send him to me. He won't be jumping my fences and I've got a couple of does that wouldn't mind making his acquaintance.


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## hboothe (Mar 7, 2017)

When we had cattle years ago we said, "if a cow will jump one fence, it will jump them all" and we sold the ones who jumped fence. That may not work for you, and it is an extreme measure. I would try this: get some electric fence netting (I personally prefer the Premier 1 Supplies products to the slightly cheaper stuff I bought from Amazon when I didn't know better), I think the stuff I buy is 42 inches tall. Put the girls out in the "electric" pasture, keep the boys as far away as is reasonably possible and contain them with the electric netting (even if the netting is very close to the perimeter fence you already have in place). Then, with a bucket of feed or a dish or something to entice them, get them to approach the fence (with less drive than some hot goat coochie). Hopefully, they'll get shocked a time or two and be "cowed" by the netting from now on (always keep in energized, though, because they will get into it if it's off for an extended period of time).

You might also put the electric netting up about 1 to 3 feet inside the fixed fence to discourage jumping the netting (no "landing zone" for the boys).

If you cannot entice the boys to try the fence you can grab them and put their nose to the fence so they get shocked. Not a pleasant task (I don't like to hurt the animals) but maybe a necessary step; until they get shocked a time or two, the electric netting is just a physical barrier and it's not designed to be a physical barrier, you need the shock(s) to get them afraid to get too close to it.

Since you have electric fences already, I'm sure you know to ground the fence charger well. However, I mention it here in case anyone comes along later, reads this, and tries electric fencing for the first time and doesn't know to ground the charger well.

I got my chargers from Amazon. They are Parmak brand, if I spelled that correctly. They have a 6 volt battery in them and a solar charge panel on top. Made in USA. They work very well. FYI.

HTH
YMMV
EIEIO

--HC


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

:update:

Four of our five does who were in heat August 19-23 didn't come back into heat when they were "supposed" to. Unfortunately though one of those was Midge (my Mini-Lamancha). :-/ 
The LSU vet is scheduled to come over here next week for calf dehornings and castrations, and so we will also have her perform Ultrasounds on all four of the goats who are supposedly bred. 

Verity, my Lamancha, was the one that came back into heat. I again bred her to Geoffrey but I don't mind if she doesn't take this time either. We already probably have four FF does due in January, and I'll have my hands full training them!

When the dates for the does to come into heat rolled around, I kept Rudy tied/locked up, but other than that he has been in with the does full-time since late August. And he hasn't jumped the fence since. I am pretty happy with him now. 

I have a few more questions. 1) Like it is with cows, if a doe is in with a buck all the time, will that doe react differently when she is in heat? I mean differently than if she was not in with a buck?
2) Vivian, our milk doe, decided about two weeks ago that she wanted to dry herself off (I think that was it, she barely gave me half a cup of milk after 24 hours' separation from her doeling ). So I haven't milked her for 2+ weeks. When would it be OK to let her kid in with her? When her udder is completely empty? 

Thanks!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The only difference I see with mine is less girls fighting and screaming (but I think that's because their not humping each other)but the buck makes it totally noticeable when one is in heat.......is that what your asking thinking maybe you missed a heat? 
2. I would wait till she is totally dried up. With mine they don't go back with moms till they are about 10-11 months old, that's weaning at 3 months then keeping them away while the buck is with the moms. Usually this works out there is no more going back to mom although last year a doe lost her kids and her doeling from the year before went back nursing. First time I ever had that happen and I probably would have blamed the doeling for the loss of kids except I turned the doelings out later then normal last year because I had a lack of shelter in the pen I was keeping the does


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yes, that was what I was asking. Because Rudy has been in with everyone including my two older Nubian does (one who is the doe drying up) since late August, and the whole time they've been together I haven't seen any mounting. Granted, that could be because neither of them have gone into heat (or maybe they had overnight heats) but I've seen white mucus on both girls' rear ends once each. And Rudy and Vivian (doe drying up) have taken to each other and can constantly be seen grazing side by side, especially on one particular day a week or two ago (the day she had mucus I think)...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Where they in with the buck when they had this mucus? That's what I look for on signs of being bred if I have hear someone being bred at night or I have to go someplace for the day. I only see very little mucus if that on does that just simply come into heat without being bred. Usually not enough to really get their hair on their tail clumped together.
I'm not sure what's up with those two hanging together. There's a lot of hormones going around and maybe they just want away from it all ??? Or maybe another goat put them in their place possibly even the buck. Honestly who knows goats do strange things!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yes, they were in with the buck when I saw that they had mucus. Matilda just had a little but Vivian had more, and it was on her tail as well. I think that was the first day I really saw them (Vivian & Rudy) start hanging out together. 
And of course I didn't write down either of those days that they had mucus. So it will be a waiting game.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Gotta love bucks... one of my boys last year enjoyed scaling any and all fences. The only thing that worked was housing him with "his" girls until he found a new home. Unfortunately he still jumped in with the other buck's girls when they came into heat as well. DNA verified he basically bred everything... So now I have a whole muttly crew... but my does were all standards, and they I had wanted them all bred, just not to bucks I ended up with. 

The new owners of my problem child, ended up putting him on a dog line, because like here, he scaled everything he got his sights on. I've been keeping a strict eye on his kids, and so far no one has show his propensity to jump.


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