# Tough little girl needs help!



## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Went to see the goats today and Widow has a serious dog bite on her right rear, about a
half dollar in diameter and an inch deep. The tendon has a tear, the bone is chipped and the smell is horrible, but not excessively strong. There is dead tissue, but not in any great amount. She won't put weight on it and would much rather lay down, but will walk a short ways. She's eating and drinking well, is extra friendly and just wants to lick everyone.

She's had the wound flushed with a honey/iodine mixture three times and got it stitched up, as well as 6cc of b-complex. Unfortunately, I have no antibiotics anywhere. No injectables, no oral, not even leftover pills, and with no money until Friday, she's got to make it 4 days before she can get antibiotics and a tetanus shot.

The good news? She's alert, has energy, and there's plenty of live tissue to heal. The bad news? The wound is easily 3 days old, since she chose to be a typical prey animal and hide it. She never acted like it hurt, she was just laying down everytime someone checked on her. Even I didn't suspect anything until I forced her up. I'm just feeling horrible over the whole situation. I'm keeping a tab of expenses for the dog's owner to cough up, because it's either that or his precious dog becomes crowbait. This is the same person who owned the 3 dogs responsible for the death of 1 goat and 3 calves. Obviously he hasn't gotten the hint.

So, what can I do to keep her alive until Friday? I'm not worried about her kid, she's still pregnant, but she's my concern, nothing else. She's in the shed with Addy, where it's quiet, dark and warm, with plenty of water, hay, minerals and a 10 foot outside run. She'll stay there until she's completely healed.

Hope these pics aren't too graphic, that's more blood than dirt.
Someone feeling perkier after being stitched up








She didn't cry, kick or flinch. A vet's dream, I swear.
















I knew my handmade blanket would come in handy.








Fresh blood is a good sign, right? We can put a tube in for drainage if needed.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

wow sorry. So if I'm understanding correctly this is about 3 days old? When and who stitched it up? You said there's dead tissue, was this removed before being sutured? She really needs to be seen, it looks like it's still bleeding? Do you have anyone near by you can borrow medical supplies from. Is there a vet who would hold a check until Friday?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your better off taking the stitching out IMO , the wound is infected and closing the wound up will just make it worse. She obviously has to be seen immediately , I understand you havent the funds right now , but maybe the vet will treat and expect payment later ?
Hopefully you can set something up that will allow her to get treatment ASAP.
She needs meds right now to have a fighting chance IMO. 
Good luck , I am so sorry she was attacked. I also hope the dog owner pays your vet bills .
You may want to bring this to their attention now as it might help with the payments so you can get immediate help for her.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

There was no pus or any immediate signs of infection, though the tendon is inflamed. There's no heat coming off of it, but yes, the dead tissue has been removed. There wasn't much, just a bit of muscle and fat.

My vet is closed today and tomorrow, and OSU refuses to take delayed payments. You either pay up front or you don't see the vet, and considering it cost me $90 to have a kitten euthed there, I couldn't afford the bill anyways.

Right now I have a vet tech friend taking care of her, she was stitched up about 2 hours ago (so noon cst). She did a wonderful job with her dog, so I'm confident she's in good hands, and I'm trying to get a hold of my other friend's mother, who used to run her own practice, so I can borrow some antibiotics and a tetanus shot.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, she needs medical help now.

Yes, take the sutures out, if it is infected, the sutures will not do any good anyway, but keep the infection trapped in there.

She needs to be shaved around the area's of attack and be looked over for more injuries.

Even though, she is not showing any signs of pain or illness, leaving her in this way, she will be in really big trouble and may lose her life or limb.

She needs antibiotics now, and a tetanus shot, if she hasn't had her CD&T vaccine lately.

The bad tissue, needs to be cut away to fresh good skin and her wound needs cleaning and flushed. I wouldn't of used honey in the flush, but, make a light tea color of iodine/ water and flush it daily 2x a day, until no bad smell is present, usually about 4 days or so. Also, before the flush, try to squeeze out any goo, if you can, if not, flushing it will help. if you have any today or tomorrow mastitis meds, yes the one that is inserted into the teat, you can put some of that in the wound/or wounds, after each flush. Or at minimum after the 2nd flush of each day.

If you keep her in a clean area, I wouldn't wrap it up, it is only allowing bacteria to stay there.

The dog owner is responsible for this, so, I would insist on they pay for the vet bills.
Make sure, the vet is aware of she is preggo.

I am so sorry she was hurt so bad.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im glad to hear you have some help on hand ! (friend vet tech )
Dog bites are bad , hopefully there is no infection but you mentioned a bad smell , so that would most likely mean infection and closing it up without a drain or not flushing it would be very dangerous IMO. 

You are doing the best you can I understand and I dont want to be mean , just stating what I think ....It sounds like you have the best care you can get right now , so hopefully tomorrow you can get those antibiotics and better care. Keep her warm. Good luck


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Pam I didnt see your post , sorry. 
TheMixedBag , please follow what directions you can here , its her best option right now.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor thing


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I know, I'm going to do what I can. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow since he'll be open, the vet tech didn't figure they'd do much more than flush and stitch anyway.

I think a lot of the smell is coming from the hair, which has a lot of caked blood and dirt. She was poked and prodded thoroughy with no immediate signs of infection. The stitches come out tomorrow and a drainage tube will be put in. The clippers are broken, but a lot of the hair was cut away with scissors. There are no other injuries anywhere, we checked VERY carefully.

They spoke to the neighbors about a half hour ago, they are denying the dog is theirs, which is pretty funny since he was on their porch. They were told he would be shot on sight next time, and they don't seem to care, so I guess it's just another dead stray.

The honey bit is something I was told by my goat mentor, though she said sugar works just as well. Something about it eating bacteria. We'll see how it looks in the morning when the bandaging and stitches come out.

Almost forgot, she had her tetanus and booster done in May, but she'll get the anti-toxin anyways. They're checking on her every hour or so, she's just standing in the corner pigging out right now.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I also heard about something with the sugar and honey , hope it helps her.
Yes , the vet would have flushed out the wound , cut away dead tissue and whatever else then most likely put a drain in , but with the other injuries to the tendon and the bone , the care will be more extensive. 
Good luck , and I pray for a good outcome.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Right now the tech is expecting her to be walking on it in 3 days. The bone only has a tiny chip in it, no cracks or dead portions. The tendon is the worst, with inflammation and a small tear, but it seems the bandaging is helping to relieve some of the pressure as she is trying to move the leg. She got some aspirin and the bleeding has stopped for now. She'll get some Red Cell tomorrow, her membranes are still bright pink, but I figure it can't hurt what with the blood loss.


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

It may actually be a good idea to shave the hair around the wound to keep it form holding in pus/blood and growing bacteria. It will help the wound stay cleaner and drain. If you can get to a Walmart or something similar, try to find Hibiclens (Chlorhexidine) solution, comes in blueish green bottle, and rinse with this at least a couple times a day. That is the best stuff for healing up yucky wounds. Second, absolutely don't delay in getting her started on antibiotics when you can.  Dog bites are notoriously prone to bad infection. Even just a small puncture. I too pray for good outcome for your little girl.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Poor baby! I would call the police and make a report. I would think they would enforce either them paying or putting that dog down. Thats awful. Im so sorry. I did want to mention that I would not give aspirin as thats a blood thinner especially with her currently active bleeding - or did you just say the bleedin stopped. Either way, I wouldnt give her anymore if she starts bleeding again. I wish you were near me I would run you some antibiotics and some other goodies. Do you know any other goat or cow owners? They most likely have some on hand if they have a decent size herd.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Once I can get some money, I'm buying a fresh pair of clippers and Penn-G, unless there's a better antibiotic I can get without a prescription. I am absolutely not worried about her pregnancy, I'd rather deal with a dead kid than a dead pet.

If there's one good outcome, she has become the friendliest goat on the planet. She just wants to lick and rub up on everyone.

I do know some people, but given that it's Christmas, everybody is busy, and the one person who wasn't (my mentor) is iced in, so that's no good. I believe they only gave her one pill, she wasn't bleeding badly to begin with, so she should be ok.

The cops are no help, just like when this &#*%'s dogs KILLED a goat of mine and 3 calves. They gave me permission to humanely shoot them on sight, but said that that was all they could do, since technically the goats are illegal, and they'd have to prosecute me as well, and since this guy claims he doesn't own any dogs, there's not a lot the law can do, so it looks like his 3 dogs will be shot. He can't say a word without claiming responsibility, so unless he wants a massive vet bill (I'll take her to OSU if it's on his tab), he'll either pen them up or lose them. Shame the dogs have to pay, it really is.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Just a quick update from about 10:30-while the leg is "dead" (she cannot or will not move any part below the knee), she has started trying to swing it when she moves and the smell has lessened considerably. I'm trying to convince a friend to come out with some meds and clippers tomorrow, I want her whole thigh shaved for putting in the drainage tube. The bandage will stay off after tomorrow, as in case it wasn't obvious, that's a VERY temporary wrap job. The fact that it's still on is a miracle, given every goat I've ever wrapped throws it in an hour.

I can't wait for this crappy year to end...it's been all injuries so far...


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I've heard good things about the honey and sugar too -- keep your chin up, you have done a great job for your girl in the very best way you could. The sooner the vet is out, the better, but you should be proud of yourself for the care you have given her :hug:

At this point, if the leg is truly dead (dead tissue) it may have to be removed.

Our prayers are with you ... I hope you can get a vet out there :hug:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

The leg isn't truly dead in the sense that it's all dead tissue, it's just completely useless to her until it heals enough to hold weight. Right now she's just dragging and swinging it, but the tissue below and around the injury is still very much alive.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I cannot believe the Vet tech did not shave the area before she stitched it up. No vet tech should do that. How do you get a clean area with all the hair.

 Have you taken this does temp? She also needs something for pain. She needs Banamine and the vet tech should of been able to help you out. I know she is not a vet but she should be able to help. 

 Is the leg cold? Is she getting any blood to it at all? Poor thing, she needs a vet. How do you know the bone is chipped and all the other info you gave us?


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

Is there a tractor supply or some kindve similar place near you? Im willing to call them and give a card over the phone to pay for the meds she needs. See if you can arrange this somewhere local to you and ill gladly make it happen!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

She has the degree, not the job, and she wound up using scissors instead of shaving because at that point I was kinda panicked and couldn't find a pair of clippers that worked.

I've been asking everyone I can for pain meds and antibiotics, but so far nobody has even answered, and unless I pay up front, no vet will see me, as the ONLY one that would retired in '10.

As of right now she still wants to put weight on it, albeit unsuccessfully. The leg is warm but not hot, and she does react if you poke the soles of her foot. She's still bleeding off and on (so no more aspirin), so I'm guessing it's a safe assumption there's still bloodflow throughout the leg. Her temp was 100.9 last night, though I'm not sure if it's related to the sudden weather change or not. Membranes still look good and she's still eating and drinking as of this morning.

As for how I know the bone is chipped and the tendon torn? I was holding the flashlight while she was poking around pointing everything out. Once she cut away some of the dead tissue, she could push everything back far enough to show me the inflammation of the tendon and the small chip missing.

I'm going to try to get updated pics, but they may have to wait until tomorrow.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Hm, that temp is concerning, its too low. I wonder if she might be going into shock with the blood loss as she is still bleeding. I would be sure you have a heat lamp on her and keep her warm, give her some warm molasis water. I know you cant afford to take her in but do you have a credit card that you can just charge it and pay it off when your pay comes. She really should have stopped bleeding by now and with no pain meds and her temp dropping Im worried.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

There is a tractor supply nearby, there's also a place called Stillwater Milling that's cheaper and tend to have more varied meds.

I'm going to be taking her temp again this morning, if it's still low, I'm going to go ahead and assume she is in shock, and I'll try to rig up a heat lamp for her. Right now she has that blanket (double layered) and waste alfalfa hay in the shed, so that *may* be warm enough until I can get electricity to the shed.

The bleeding isn't bad, certainly nothing like in the picture, though I don't know how bad it will be when I take the stitches out.

fd123, I can't thank you enough. I have neither the credit nor responsibility for a credit card myself, though after this, I may certainly try to invest in one. If they accept this, I can send a money order back your way.
http://www.stillwatermill.com/


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

I just PM'd You my Number...Give me a call!


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

Fd123, that is the sweetest thing ever!!! 

I'm gunna thank you too just because. 
I think that just might be another Christmas miracle!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent. hope she will be OK.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

UPDATE: I just got off of the phone with the lady at the store , and she was able to take my card over the phone! So, now hopefully she can get this girl better with the meds!
Also "The Mixed Bag" you owe me nothing! > Merry (late) Christmas! Im glad i could help! BEST OF LUCK!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Frank , thank you


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

VERY WELCOME!! I saw this as an opportunity to give back to the forum for all of the helpful Info that everyone here has given to ME in MY time of need!
So, I say >>
THANK YOU to THE GOAT SPOT!!! and THANK YOU TO THE MEMBERS!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:dance::thumbup: Glad to hear that.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Well, it's not the worst update, but it is VERY bad. She's alert and hobbling around like a pro, but I couldn't get any response below her hock, no matter how hard I poked or prodded. She tore her stitches and her thigh is massively swollen. The actual injury is worse than originally thought, and if no one minds blood and gore, I'd like to post pics so I can get an idea of what the vet will say Friday. I trimmed as much hair as I dared, I was by myself since the vt had a family emergency elsewhere.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

TheMixedBag said:


> Well, it's not the worst update, but it is VERY bad. She's alert and hobbling around like a pro, but I couldn't get any response below her hock, no matter how hard I poked or prodded. She tore her stitches and her thigh is massively swollen. The actual injury is worse than originally thought, and if no one minds blood and gore, I'd like to post pics so I can get an idea of what the vet will say Friday. I trimmed as much hair as I dared, I was by myself since the vt had a family emergency elsewhere.


Go for it! Post pictures,, please!!!!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

http://s446.beta.photobucket.com/user/itasakukkun/library/

For those who would rather avoid prayers to the porcelain god. Just be glad you can't smell it. It's not overly strong, but still. Ughh.

Btw, it looks like 2 holes, but one stubborn stitch stuck.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

TheMixedBag said:


> http://s446.beta.photobucket.com/user/itasakukkun/library/
> 
> For those who would rather avoid prayers to the porcelain god. Just be glad you can't smell it. It's not overly strong, but still. Ughh.
> 
> Btw, it looks like 2 holes, but one stubborn stitch stuck.


Poor baby!!!! 
Don't think it means a lot because I'm not good with wounds, but I will be surprised if it doesn't get amputated a little, and I don't mean to freak you out, I'm not good with wounds. 
It looks broken though. Your sure its not..?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im thinking it could be dislocated if not broken.
I hope you are flushing it with something to keep infection from getting worse. I just cant keep thinking of really washing that wound out and washing that whole area , hair and all. Just keeping it clean is going to give her better odds , IMO.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

As long as she is eating , IMO , she will have a fighting chance.
I dont think she knows how to lay down without causing herself horrific pain. She looks like a strong girl though....I just wish you could get her seen by a vet sooner 
I dont want to see her suffer anymore either .


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Goats are notorius for dry gangrene. Their circulation is compromised very easily, and as soon as the limb starts dying, it starts seperating at the joint and will fall off. If the limb is unresponsive and getting cold, there is nothing to be done except to amputate or have her put to sleep. You could try high doses of Penicillian, but, I really think that it's too little too late. Sorry.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Goathiker , thanks for saying what I didnt want to say , put her down 
Honey , I think its time to seriously consider it , just saying..
You put up a brave fight for her , did what you could , but I cant see her suffering anymore and you , its been tough on you as well.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

OMG.......Thats WAYYYYYY WORSE than i thought!!!! Id go KILL THAT DAMN DOG RIGHT NOW!!!!! UGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
She needs to see a vet like.. YESTERDAY!! 
GOATHIKER..>>>>... DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THIS GIRL HAS A CHANCE?? >> I have my doubts....Infections gonna kill this girl if something "MAJOR" isnt done VERY..VERY SOON......


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I think that the only chance she may have is as a three legged goat and only if the leg is removed NOW. You can see the black and green flesh in and around the wound. The swelling is the infection going down into the leg for now. It only takes one good burst of blood coming back up to make that infection reach her heart. She will never breed or kid without a hind leg. The other hind leg will become arthritic and lame from the extra work it would have to do.
Truely the best thing is to give her peace.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

TheMixedBag , you did everything you possibly could , but please listen to what Goathiker is saying , please , for the goats sake .
Put her to rest, give her peace.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I think that the only chance she may have is as a three legged goat and only if the leg is removed NOW. You can see the black and green flesh in and around the wound. The swelling is the infection going down into the leg for now. It only takes one good burst of blood coming back up to make that infection reach her heart. She will never breed or kid without a hind leg. The other hind leg will become arthritic and lame from the extra work it would have to do.
> Truely the best thing is to give her peace.


I Have NEVER heard GOATHIKER steer ANYONE in the wrong direction! So, that means as bad as i hate to "GIVE UP"....Id have to look at "The BIG picture" and do what id want someone to do for me.....
PRAYERS SENT!!! >> GOD SPEED!!!!!


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

If ages still fighting though guys, I'd want to give her a chance and see what the vet says. 
When I got my goat (for free) with coccidia and worms even mites, at 6 months, she was still fighting people told me to put her down, I fought with her and she's fine. 
I don't wanna go against you guys, it does look very bad but I think that she should Atleast let the vet check the poor girl out:/ I'd hate to see her go to the good lord this early!:/ 

(I only say that if the goat is still fighting strong!!)


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

:hug: I know she is eating right now , and thats something that would make one think there is still hope. But like was mentioned , the infection hasnt entered her bloodstream yet , and believe me , there is infection and worse. Once it gets in her bloodstream , its going straight to her heart.
:hug: im so sorry


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm so so sorry ...


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Breaks my heart. I cannot see her being able to keep that leg. Its so much worse now than that first picture. Get her to the vet ASAP and then if you have to you may have to put her down like the others have said but I personally would take her in now if there is any hope. Poor baby


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

Trickyroo said:


> :hug: I know she is eating right now , and thats something that would make one think there is still hope. But like was mentioned , the infection hasnt entered her bloodstream yet , and believe me , there is infection and worse. Once it gets in her bloodstream , its going straight to her heart.
> :hug: im so sorry


By all means if she can be saved and live a somewhat decent life, i say do whatcha thinks best and give her a chance! but...im afraid that tommorrow is gonna be a bad day...Infections like she has are "RUTHLESS" and will knock the life right outve her. Either way...i just pray that this poor girl doesnt suffer any worse than she already has and end up with the same outcome..Shes definately loved by her owner, and shes gave this girl her "ALL" > No Doubt<...but sometimes we have to find the strength to let go...The reason others are saying give her peace is because they know what the NEAR future holds if she doesnt get to a vet NOW..


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I know its not our place to push so hard as we have started to.
I wish I could give you a hug , you really need one , Im sure.
Do the right thing honey .
Im sorry for saying things you did not want to hear


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

At this point, amputation is likely not going to help. If the swelling hasn't gone down even a little bit by morning, I will euthanize. I've been considering it all day, and I think it's probably the best option. The lower leg is still warm, but not much good that will do her. She's a stong little girl and she acts like nothing's wrong, but I know it's still too little too late. Adeleine will be up for sale in the morning, I can't keep her by herself. I don't know if I'll get into goats again for a long time.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

You did everything you could for her, this is not your fault in any way. I am incredibly sorry and heartbroken for you.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

If I gave her enough aspirin/ibuprofen to take the edge off tomorrow, would it really be humane to wait for the vet on Friday? At the very least, a needle seems kinder than a bullet.

All I can say in the end is while I am horrified that I could have let this slide for so long, that dog's owner better pray I don't dump 2 carcasses on his doorstep. He WILL pay for this, I don't care how much suing him costs.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Gangrene isn't normally very painful. The lack of pain is one of the things that really worries me. She can have two Motrins at a time, every 6 hours, they work better then aspirin and cause less stomach upset. If the leg goes cold, do it. If her hoof walls fall off, do it. I'm sure that sounds harsh but, there is nothing more horrifying then having her lay down and break her leg right off. The image would stay with you for years. Afterward, she would still be hopping around perfectly happy and you'd still have to put her down. The choice is yours.
I am sorry, what a terrible thing...


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I won't push her past Friday unless the vet thinks she'll pull through. The hoof itself is still healthy, the quick did bleed when I trimmed them down today, so there is still at least blood flow. If the vet gives her a pain prescription, I'll probably start massaging it and stretching it twice a day, just to keep things from getting too stiff. She jerked her leg when I tried to straighten the pastern, but not knowing the layout of the tendons, I can't say if it's because it's just stiff and sore or if it's because it pulled the torn tendon.

I don't know how bad a sign this is, but there's no heat coming off the swelling, or any other part of the leg. It's all one uniform temperature (hers was up 2 degrees btw, so no more borderline temps). I couldn't find any actual green tissue, just alfalfa dust mixing with goop near the hole. Tomorrow I'll actually have help handling her, I can give her a full bath (half of her, anyway) and get a much closer look. Everything I did today I had to do on her time, with no one to hold her and 
nothing to safely restrain her enough for me to poke around inside.

Almost forgot-it took me forever to find the black you were talking about. It's not black, just a rust colored scabbed spot. I panicked when I first saw it, but it's definitely blood colored and the skin around it still looks good. Of course, that doesn't mean the stuff isn't hiding inside.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I was looking at pic #1 and #4 where it looks as if the tissue under the holes is black and dry. The skin is definately pulled away from the muscle tissue creating a pocket. In pic #1 you can see where the stitch holes have gone green. If it realy doesn't look like that great. Is the smell sickly sweet or rotten turkey?
Pics are misleading. I wish I could really see her.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Rotten turkey, as my friend said yesterday. What confuses me is the very noteicable difference in the strength of the smell from yesterday, where it became very obvious from over a foot away. Now it's pretty faint until you're 6-8" from the leg.

I see what you're talking about now. That's camera discoloration. It's just a crappy 3.2 megapixel phone camera that can't take a decent picture for love nor money, so it's pretty bad for judging color. Even I'm seeing green and black where I know there wasn't any.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Good good, rotten turkey is decomposing blood and tissue. Sickly sweet is very very bad. You might still be able to do something. When you wash her make sure that you run your hand up and get every bit of water that you can up out of that pocket. Don't use soap unless it's clear baby soap or glycerin. Can you get Providine-Iodine ointment or solution, Betadine? If only the solution mix with vaseline to light tea brown or sky blue depending on the type and cover the holes up. Wrap her leg lightly in a gauze bandage that will still breath. She will keep it up herself. There may be hope. Remember though that the blood in her hoof could have been pooled there. 
Make sure your vet gives her GOOD antibiotics, and trap those dogs.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

The only thing I have to flush her with is iodine. I mixed 1/2 and 1/2 iodine-water with about a half teaspoon of honey. I'm going to get betadine Friday along with peroxide to break down any hair clumps I can't catch with the scissors.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Just be careful with the peroxide, it destroys her good white blood cells and living tissue if put in a wound. You can use honey to cover the holes too. It works well.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

This is just terrible I really hope she gets better. Ive had goats with foot and leg injuries as well one even now thankfully never lost any to that hopefully neither do you. Just keep trying ill be hoping for the best!


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

Goat hiker,you are a great resource! All praises for goat hiker! Hope she's doing alright,hope that dang vet gets out to her!


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

I really hope she beats all odds and pulls through this. She deserves too. She has really fought hard.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh and yes, if she seems okay and you can make her comfortable through today then I would hold off for sure till Friday. IF you have to put her down I would do it peacefully as she has been through enough.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

It's completely up to you if you want to do this. 

BUT, my mom doesn't believe in medicine (I've never had shots like everyone else if that tells you anything) 
She got 3 brown recluse bites and she asked her doctor friend and he told her its going to affect her nerves Esspecially cause it was infected. 
Well she put manuca honey on it and it was better in a week. 
Then my cousins had merca (staff infections) and we put manuca honey on it and it was better in a week and a half so just letting you know, that stuff works REAL good. 


**to me sounds like she's not better but not worse**


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I got her an appointment for tomorrow morning, though I have to bring her in. I spoke to his tech, and she seems optimistic, but reccomends euthanasia over amputation, if it's required. She'll get a prescription for Baytril and Banamine, as well as an x-ray. They'll give me some betadine for her. 

I'm about to head out now to check on her, I'll update when I get back.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

Ive kinda gained some hope after reading the conversation between you and GoatHiker! It might not be as bad as it looked on the pics!! I sure hope that she pulls through! I can assure you that ive been praying for you and your girl...Ive been waiting for your update on how shes doing today...God Bless you for all youve done and are continueing to do for this precious girl!


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

fd123 said:


> Ive kinda gained some hope after reading the conversation between you and GoatHiker! It might not be as bad as it looked on the pics!! I sure hope that she pulls through! I can assure you that ive been praying for you and your girl...Ive been waiting for your update on how shes doing today...God Bless you for all youve done and are continueing to do for this precious girl!


I totally agree with you!!

I'm dying for this update also!! Really hope she's doing better!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I cant wait to hear her update


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry this is happening to Widow, bless her heart. I've always loved her, your updates, pics, etc. I hope and pray she makes it. I understand the rough times, we just lost premature babies yesterday and mama won't expell or attempt to push out placenta  One more thing to try or off to the vet we go too...

Prayers for Widow ♥


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Update is GOOD! Swelling in the lower thigh is down, though not the knee. Smell is weaker,energy is higher (stood and walked for HOURS while I was out there), lower leg is warm and mobile with good blood flow, drainage is slowing down, and she tried to kick me when I gave her her shots!

The bad news? There's a second hole. I flushed her myself today, and it all drained out from a spot just inside and to the left of her hock, but I couldn't loosen up the hair or hold her still enough to cut at it with the scissors. The vet can shave her, and quite frankly, I'm more comfortable with him doing it. I'm too scared of cuttinng good skin or worse. I sprayed weakened iodine around the injuries, NOT in them to at least try and keep things cleaner, but so far she's looking like she may pull through after all, though it depends entirely on what the vet says.

Linking again, please ignore Addy's "injury". She's NOT lame or limping, she's imitating Widow. I'm convinced she's just jealous. She does have a problem, though lord knows what. I've never seen so much discharge 5 weeks out.
http://s446.beta.photobucket.com/user/itasakukkun/library/


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Good, she looks better and much cleaner. The hole at the bottom isn't a bad thing, that just means that the wound is draining instead of pus building up inside the skin. Her body is overcoming it. Hopefully tomorrow will go well.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

This is GREAT NEWS! Your hard work and dedication has def paid off!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww I'm glad to hear it, I hope and pray she keeps improving. Sounds like your doing great with her. I hope the vet visit goes very well.

The other doe that has all that discharge, you said she has 5 weeks, are you positive on the due date? Just wondering because that seems to be a LOT of discharge for 5 weeks out.
I guess I am leary after just having a doe go into premature labor and abort her kids. She had a lot of discharge for several weeks <not due until 1/17>. So keep a close eye on her, and check her ligs <udder won't tell you anything, ligs will>.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

So happy to hear things are looking up for this poor girl 
My fingers and toes are crossed and im praying for good
news tomorrow. :hug:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm not positive on the due date, I just know her back end was covered in pee and her hair was messy on 9/5 I believe, but she's been with a buck since early August, just without any indications of heat. Her ligs are softer than an open doe's (or at least Widow's), but not near soft enough to make me think labor is coming soon. Her udder will never be an indicator, it was smaller than a baseball as a ff...as it is, she acts fine, no hunching, stretching, stargazing, digging, flagging or restlessness, just buckets of discharge.

Widow has zeo discharge, zero udder, rock hard ligs and one HYPER kid. This mess doesn't seem to have phased her one bit.

There is one odd thing-both does seem pretty hollow in their flanks. No idea why,, they have loads of hay.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

When was the vet visit ? I hope things went well 
Gosh that goat went through so much , i hope she pulls through , the owner went through heck trying to save her.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

Trickyroo said:


> When was the vet visit ? I hope things went well
> Gosh that goat went through so much , i hope she pulls through , the owner went through heck trying to save her.


I totally forgot the vet was today, now I'm scared!!


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Any news? Praying for widow.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Any news?


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Vet gave her the all clear! She's drugged up right now and a bit loopy, but she'll recover at least a little use of her leg. He said she should deliver just fine, and so long as I help hold her up, she can continue breeding. He wants me to continue the Penn-G for another 4 days, then every other day until the swelling is completely gone. He also wants me to keep her on 1cc of Banamine every day until the swelling goes down.

Adeleine's exam was less fortunate. She's competely empty and all the discharge is just her clearing out. At least she gets her year off, and she's perfectly healthy otherwise. He said that a kid *may* be hiding, but the ultrasound showed nothing.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

YAY! I've been following but haven't commented - so glad that Widow is going to be ok! 

Sorry about Addy though.


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## LJH (Aug 27, 2012)

*You* *saved her life, you are an awesome goat mommy! *

I almost couldn't read this thread after the first few posts, it sounded so grim for a while but your latest news made my day. Happy tears for you both!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Sounds like your other doe maybe had a false pregnancy ... but that news about Widow is heartwarming.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh thank god. 

Make me wanna cry hearing that shell be good


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah!  Glad she will be OK 

But sorry about the Adeleine.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

AWESOME NEWS !! Im happy for the both of you 
That is very sad for Addy though , but for Widow to be able to have use of that leg is simply amazing to say the least ! 
Are you going to be able to be with her till she kids , being you will have to hold her up so she can deliver ? I cant wait to see this baby , are you going to keep him/her ? Should be called miracle either 
way , lolol.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

That's if she's bred, which right now I just don't think she is. It's confusing me because she has had the typical discharge of a pregnant doe, but I bounced her today and she felt open. She didn't get ultrasounded, the vet didn't want to push her too much, so right now I'm considering both does as open, though if she did abort, it's the cleanest I've ever seen. No discharge, no distress, no nothing, aside from what her leg is causing.

And now that I have a minute, I can properly update. He cut a large portion of skin off, so the hole is about 5". The muscle underneath is hardened, but directly under the hard layer is healthy muscle tissue, just not much left. The total damaged area extends from about an inch above the hole to about 3" below it, and roughly 2" to the right. He said the swelling will go down with the banamine, he didn't find much infection, so he didn't see a need for stronger antibiotics. He wants her on a 7 day course of 6cc a day, tapering off to every other day for another week or two. Since she's up to date on her tetanus vaccine, he said not to worry about any problems from that. He's very optimistic about her recovery chances, though no matter what she'll always have a bad limp and disfigurement. Pasturing is out of the question, so what I'll do is build a smaller pen and let her be a babysitter for kids.

I updated the photo album, but be forewarned. A LOT of muscle tissue is visible, so you may not want to look if you have a weak stomach. You can use the last link I posted, it'll show the new pictures.

As for Adeleine, I'm thinking it was false as well. She never got bigger, and her udder is maybe only a quarter of what it was with her first kid.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

TheMixedBag said:


> That's if she's bred, which right now I just don't think she is. It's confusing me because she has had the typical discharge of a pregnant doe, but I bounced her today and she felt open. She didn't get ultrasounded, the vet didn't want to push her too much, so right now I'm considering both does as open, though if she did abort, it's the cleanest I've ever seen. No discharge, no distress, no nothing, aside from what her leg is causing.
> 
> And now that I have a minute, I can properly update. He cut a large portion of skin off, so the hole is about 5". The muscle underneath is hardened, but directly under the hard layer is healthy muscle tissue, just not much left. The total damaged area extends from about an inch above the hole to about 3" below it, and roughly 2" to the right. He said the swelling will go down with the banamine, he didn't find much infection, so he didn't see a need for stronger antibiotics. He wants her on a 7 day course of 6cc a day, tapering off to every other day for another week or two. Since she's up to date on her tetanus vaccine, he said not to worry about any problems from that. He's very optimistic about her recovery chances, though no matter what she'll always have a bad limp and disfigurement. Pasturing is out of the question, so what I'll do is build a smaller pen and let her be a babysitter for kids.
> 
> ...


It's not exactly pretty, lol but I am so happy thT she will be good 
And who knows, she probably will teach those kids to stay away from dogs or to head but them as much as possible!! Lol 
What is going to happen with those nasty dogs,?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

TheMixedBag , You are amazingly lucky and so is Widow !
I am overwhelmed that Widow has pulled through this !
You said you knew her well and said she is a fighter and you stuck by 
her even though the odds were totally against her.
She is one heckuva fighter and she deserves only the best , that's why she has you  

That's one amazing doe !!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

That is great about Widow! I hope and pray she makes a great recovery. No worries about a limp, our buck had a limp/weak hind leg when he was extremely ill a year ago, and he got around just fine and was able to breed. The man who bought him wasn't real concerned with the limp, thankfully. 
Hopefully when she's healed and ready she'll be bred and have her own babies. Probably a really good thing she's not bred while going through this, as this is stressful enough for her. 
Hopefully everything will look up from here  <For us too! It's been a crummy goat week  >.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Oh, she's a trooper alright. Loaded herself into the car, unloaded herself, stood like an angel for the vet, attempted to unwrap their new sign, visited with some people from my dad's nursing home, came home and made flushing and shots an absolute rodeo. I had to sit on her to give the last shot, she was having none of it. 

I must say, her name was picked well (named after Marvel's Black Widow, aka Natasha Romanov). At this point, I don't think anything can phase her. Either that or 42 is her lucky number (her birth # tag is 42, which the nerd in me has to mention, since it's part of Hitchhiker's Guide and Doctor Who).

I do have to say it is a HUGE relief that neither of them are bred. I just couldn't bear to think of what would happen if she had a difficult labor. Addy is still dropping big clumps of pink-tinged amber fluid with white mucous strings in it, she'll probably keep it up for a few more days, but if it hasn't cleared up in a week, I'll probably bring her back in to the vet.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

yay Widow!!! Im so happy to hear all your hard work paid off! I love your idea of making her the babysitter for the kids! Perfect! So sorry about the other does loss or whatever may have happened there. Glad you get to keep both your girls!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Widow looks to be aborting today. She was pretty uncomfortable and had a big long string of white mucous, maybe about 8". No blood or obvious distress, she's up and eating now that she's had her shots. I'm still debating calling into work to keep an eye on her, but she may be capable of handling it herself since she's only 3 months along.

In other news, the swelling continues to go down, the smell is nearly gone and she is actively lifing and lowering it and putting weight on it to pee.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I suspect the dog chasing them might have something to do with the abortions. Who knows, if the other aborted quickly, the dogs may have eaten the evidence.
Glad to hear that her leg will be alright. She may heal up just fine.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Oh, no doubt. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long for her to abort, unless it was just the mucous plug, which I highly doubt. There was no more discharge at all when I left, and she was still comfortably plowing through hay. Ligs are still pretty hard, so maybe she's just getting ready to abort?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I cant help you there hon , but if you can possibly do it , maybe stay with her and keep an eye on here ...


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Well, I'm officially confused. No more discharge aside from the string yesterday, no evidence of an abortion, ligs are softening, but she seems just fine.

Another milestone today, she's starting to lay down straight, with her leg tucked up rather than stretched out, and she does this before I give her Banamine. I also watched her hop over a hay bale. The smell is almost gone, and she's lifting and lowering her leg by herself. She also gives me crap every time I flush her leg and give her shots, so everything points to her making a nearly full recovery.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Awesome :clap:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Ok, time for an update because I don't know if it's good or not, and I'd like additional treatment suggestions.

Now that the hole is about 5", I can easily see inside and see just how much has been lost. I can clearly see straight through to the layer of fat on the far inside of her hock, so she has lost the lower half of 2 large main muscles, the actual names of which I can't remember, let alone spell. The gluteal muscle on the outer thigh is missing a huge chunk, and there is only a small layer of muscle over the bone and joint, a bit less than an inch thick. The muscle loss continues for another inch or so down into the hock before you see muscle covering the uppermost portion of the joint. Along what I assume is the muscle covering ligaments a line of what looks like pus has started to form, despite 7 days of
antibiotics and weak iodine flushes. Her overall temperature and the local temp
of her leg is normal, and she can lift her lower leg up as well as her whole leg. Her attitude is still good, eating and drinking as normal, laying down with her leg tucked up instead of stretched out and using it for balance very occasionally. The smell has also changed, less rancid turkey and more odd funk, but absolutely NOT any kind of sweet. Discharge continues, albeit with next to no blood and a lot less plasma related stuff. Swelling is way down as well. I'm scheduling an appointment tomorrow, hopefully for Friday again, to make sure she's progressing as best she can.

As for treatment options, she's got 2 more days of banamine, when can it safely be started again? She's on 6cc pen-g every other day for the next 14 days, can I mix a small amount with water or use it straight as a flush? It's becoming a nightmare keeping that thing clean since my only available bedding is waste hay, and it occured to me that if it would even work, it might help keep bacteria levels down at the source along with the regular shots. I was also thinking she *might* be able to benefit from something like Vetericyn spray, or Wonderdust. Just something topical to help her heal faster. It would wind up.being used directly on muscle tissue though, so maybe not. 

ANY other advice or suggestions are welcome right now, I'm starting to get worried again.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Can you get Today? It can be used directly on a wound like that with out any danger. It doesn't even sting.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Yeah, it's pretty cheap here, how many tubes a day and for how long?


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