# Trollmor is back. Maybe.



## Trollmor

I am not sure, if my health status or my family problems will allow me to visit the goat spot too often, but I do think of you now and then.

And of my goats, saved in happy memory. And of my brother's goats, tortured to death, still remembered with happiness. And with sorrow.

If you don't see me, it is probably because I simply have no strength and/or time for surfing on the net.


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## ksalvagno

Sorry you are having so many problems in your life.


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## MadCatX

Hey since you checked in and I dont know you - welcome back - and we'll keep you in our thoughts and prayers.


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## Trollmor

Lots of thanks, both of you! Moral support is always good. Yes, MadCatX, I have been absent for a long time, probably you signed in during my absence. Nice to meet you now!


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## elvis&oliver

:getwell: Prayers and healing thoughts sent your way and welcome back I hope if you can check in the goat pictures and stories make you feel better too.


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## MadCatX

Well awesome - keep your head up and post away as you feel better


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## toth boer goats

Trollmor, I was wondering what happen with you, as to why you were not on TGS.
I am so sad to see you are going through hard times. 
Prayers are with you my Goat spot friend.


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## Trollmor

Thank you, all of you! I am having problems finding my way on this forum, was planning to send a personal message, but it seems I have forgotten how to do this. Can anyone teach me?

toth boer goats: I left the goat spot when it got full with commercials. Now it seems to have "recovered"! 

NB: the mail address [email protected] is "dead". I have lost access to it.


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## toth boer goats

Pick a member and click on their pic, from there, it opens up a new window, click on "Start a Conversation".
This opens up a place to write a message.
On the bottom area, you can make it private between the two of you or, have it open for anyone to respond too.

I agree for some time, we had bad ad issues, so glad it is better now.


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## Trollmor

Yes, the ads are now bearable, thank you!


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## toth boer goats




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## Trollmor

Happy Christmas to all! Today, the 24th of December, is the big feast here. In my youth it was called the Dipping Day, for it was the day when we dipped a specially, very tasty bread in the water in which the Christmas Ham had been boiling. Many extra good spices, and you dip your slice very quickly into the water. Eat while warm, with ham, mustard, boiled potatoes, sour herring, meat balls and whatever you find tasty! Candles on the table, the whole family collected. After that, you read the Christmas Epistle (in Isaiah), and the Gospel (St Luke). Candles here also, whereafter it is time for the presents.

In my country, the Christmas Day is more a day of rest. Eat some ham-on-bread when you get hungry, read your Christmas Books, perhaps get out skiing.

So, to all of you, from all of me, a Very Merry Christmas!!


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## ksalvagno

Merry Christmas to you!


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## SandyNubians

Merry Christmas to you as well! I really think I should have eaten breakfast cause now my mouth is watering! Hope you, and everyone else has a wonderful Christmas!


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## Dwarf Dad

Thank you and Merry Christmas to you as well.


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## Trollmor

SandyNubians said:


> Merry Christmas to you as well! I really think I should have eaten breakfast cause now my mouth is watering! Hope you, and everyone else has a wonderful Christmas!


Hihi, nice to hear! Hope you got your breakfast!


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## NigerianNewbie

Merry Christmas to you. Have a pan of biscuits in the oven to take to lunch my son is cooking. There will be ham. I will think of you and your traditions when I break apart the biscuit and stuff a thick slice inside. (highfive)


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## mariarose

Merry Christmas. We had our Christmas Dinner yesterday (Christmas Eve). because of child visitation legalities.
We had Duck (stewed with fruit and onion), Spinach Salad, Home made bread (in my bread machine), and Wild Rice cooked with Mushrooms.

The duck was one of ours.

The dipping bread sounds delicious.

Christmas Breakfast is just going to be a big mass of vegetables to try to counteract the bad but yummy stuff I've had lately...


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## groovyoldlady

Merry Christmas, Trollmor! So glad you are here! may the new year bring you blessings and healings and lots of smiles!


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## Trollmor

Thank you all for being you! As for dipping bread, it is a tradition formed before the Reformation, that is during the Catholic time. Before Christmas and before Easter there were long periods of No Meat, and at the end of that period, delicious smells from cooking ham filled the houses... So the priests decided that it was allowed to dip bread into the ham water already before the real end of the No Meat period.

This year, I had an e-mail from a French friend, who informed me that in his country, you sed Christmas- and New Year-cards only to those you haven't been able to wish good holidays to personally, and that happens _after_ the holidays, latest on the 15th of January. He stressed that in France, the food is the important thing at a Christmas Feast, not the decorations. I thought this being very, very French! 

Personally, I am convinced that Christmas (Jul) was originally a pre-Christian feast to talk the sun into turning, to coming back. Or, at least, to celebrate the turning.


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## mariarose

Every culture we know anything about has had a midwinter something or other, tied to rebirth, or return of the sun, redemption... I have Christian friends who refuse to celebrate Christmas because of the "Pagan" origins. I say, put whatever symbolism you want on it to make it meaningful to you and your family. Why something is important to me is not important to why it could be important to someone else. It's nice to have a bit of down time to spend with someone you like.


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## Trollmor

I could not have said it better myself! Here, the midsummer turn is of even importance, though Easter is not so great a feast for most people, although very important to really believing Christians. The Midsummer Turn is mainly celebrated outdoors, regardless of present weather, and the Midwinter Turn or whatever we call it, is a feast where we meet our friends and relatives, indoors, and with good food. There are old tales about a special midwinter fire, with a big log slowly shoved into the open fireplace. In Finland they celebrate Midsummer with a big fire outdoors.


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## Dayna

Welcome back. I am also on and off as my health and time allows.


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## Trollmor

Dayna said:


> Welcome back. I am also on and off as my health and time allows.


Good not to be alone!


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## Trollmor

I tried to add my country to my profile, but did not manage. Can somebody guide me through the process? It should be very simple, only I obviously clicked on the wrong button.


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## mariarose

At the top of the page there are tabs.
One of the tabs should have your username. If you hover your cursor over your username, a drop down menu will, well, drop down.

One of your choices is Personal Details, if you click on that, then there will be a line for location. Once you type in your location, at the bottom of that page is a button that says, Save Changes. Click that button.

Now, I am using an older Windows laptop. The device you are using may not show things exactly as I've described, So I hope I've not messed you up more.

I hope this helps you do what you want to do.


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## Trollmor

Tried, but could not see Location. Tried under About Author instead, but I can not see my country under my nick in the entries. I am borrowing one computer after the other, none of them very new, several are Macs. (Windows 10 is a program from the Devil!)


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## Goatzrule

Welcome back


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## mariarose

I'm starting at the beginning, because I'm uncertain where we parted company.

Do you see the tabs at the top of the page, and do you see that one of them says your username?

If one of them does NOT say your username, what DO they say (in English, please, I suck at everything else)


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## Trollmor

Yupp, there is a sign called Trollmor. (This page speaks English only, sometimes to my bewildered frustration!) Under "Trollmor" I can see a heap of options:
Personal Details
Your Articles
Signature
Your News Feed
Contact Details
(...)
About Author
Two-step Verification
__________________
Show Online Status (on)
Log out
____________________
(in a box Update your status


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## Trollmor

Ah! There on top also Your Profile Page! And when clicking on that, I can see my country's name. But still not in my entries.

Well, if I cannot, then I cannot! Thanks that you try!


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## mariarose

GREAT. Click on Personal Details
Approximately halfway down that page should be the word Location.
It is under Date of Birth and above Occupation.

Do you see that, and if not, what do you see?

If you do see it, type in whatever location you want, go to the bottom of the page, and click the button that says Save Changes.

We'll get this, I promise.


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## mariarose

Trollmor said:


> Well, if I cannot, then I cannot! Thanks that you try!


You can. I promise you can. See my post just above.


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## luvmyherd

I love how people are so eager to help a fellow member! I will not, however, muddy the waters by trying to help as I am most likely to confuse things.

I have loved reading the Christmas traditions. Especially the broth dipping. Good bread dipped in broth is one of my favorite things.

I do hope that you are able to keep posting from time to time as well. I no longer have my goats and miss them every day. Checking in here does lift my spirits; especially the pictures posted during kidding season.


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## mariarose

luvmyherd said:


> I no longer have my goats and miss them every day.


I long for the day when your signature can no longer say "goatless..."


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## luvmyherd

mariarose said:


> I long for the day when your signature can no longer say "goatless..."


Thank you. That is so sweet. We really do plan to raise Nigerian Dwarfs someday. But we really are enjoying the freedom to travel and visit our grandchildren.


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## Trollmor

luvmyherd said:


> I no longer have my goats and miss them every day. Checking in here does lift my spirits; especially the pictures posted during kidding season.


Same here.

But, just LOOK what I managed to do with my profile today! Eventually! Thanks for all cheering!


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Same here.
> 
> But, just LOOK what I managed to do with my profile today! Eventually! Thanks for all cheering!


I have been looking at it and trying to tell what it is. Not there yet!


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## mariarose

Dwarf Dad said:


> I have been looking at it and trying to tell what it is. Not there yet!


What I've seen is an avatar and a location. But there may be more. I definitely saw those improvements!


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## Dwarf Dad

mariarose said:


> What I've seen is an avatar and a location. But there may be more. I definitely saw those improvements!


Oh yeah, she finally got hooked up with someone who talks Mac and Safari. They helped her find the tools. I meant WHAT the avatar is. Some animal with a lead rope it looks like. If a guess counted as knowing, I would guess a goat. My guesses are usually way off target.


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## mariarose

I thought maybe a logo for a Swedish company?


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## Trollmor

Remind me to tell you the story/ies about my new-old avatar! First, though, you may have some fun guessing and discussing! (Anna in the Forest, please do not help them, not yet, give them all some fun first, you have most probably already seen what it is!)


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## Dwarf Dad

Uh, oh. Fairy tales. It must have to do with your name. A story about a particular Swedish troll?


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## Trollmor

Good thinking! One of the stories is about the picture as such: I was playing around with my photoshop program, which I do not at all master. All of a sudden, I found I had made this picture! So I decided to use it. Now I have lost the picture out of my computer, but I managed to copy it from one of the other forums I visit, and bring it here. No, I could not do it again; I don't have a clue how I did!


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## Dwarf Dad

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/trollmors-vaggsång-mother-trolls-song.html

*Mother Troll's Song*
When mother troll has put
her eleven small trolls to bed
and wrapped them up tight in her tail
then she sings to the eleven small trolls
the most beautiful words she knows:
Ho aj aj aj aj buff,
ho aj aj aj aj buff,
ho aj aj aj aj buff buff!
Ho aj aj aj aj buff.

@Trollmor , do we call you Mother Troll now?


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## Trollmor

What a nice translation you have found! I think I will understand you mean me if you translate my nick.

Since you seem to be interested, you can try to search for John Bauer, a painter who about a century ago for many years contributed to a magazine called "Bland tomtar och troll" (Among santas and trolls, no, that is a VERY bad translation!) Both 'tomtes' and 'trolls' are beings that were believed in before Christianity.

You can also try to listen to Edward Grieg's "I Bergakungens Sal", In the Castle of the Mountain King. There you can hear how the Norwegian composer lets the trolls go out dancing in the night. They are so happy that they forget the dangers of the sun, and when she rises, they hurry back into the rock. BAM, slams the door. One more young troll comes running, ti-ti-ti-ti-ti-ti-ti-ti-ti-ti, and BAM, BAM, slams the rock door. All the trolls are in safety inside the mountain.


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## Dwarf Dad

"Among Gnomes and Trolls" this must be where all of our garden gnomes came into being.

An annual publication that started in 1907, and still going!


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## Trollmor

Aha, still going? But without John Bauer. Unfortunately, he drowned in the lake Vättern long ago. Yes, John Bauer put our old gnomes and trolls to nice pictures, like Jenny Nyström gave us a Christmas Gnome, or, if you prefer, a Santa. Her own father was her model when it came to face. But I must stress that these paintings and drawings are only putting onto paper what has been believed long ago - or perhaps a modern, nice alternative!

Nobel Prize Winner Selma Lagerlöf did put some of the old sagas into books, for example the Exchanged Child (Bortbytingen). Troll Mother saw that the human child was more beautiful than hers, and took it, leaving her own child in exchange. (An old way of explaning that some children were born with a damage.) The farmer wanted to get rid of the exchanged child, but his wife just could not. After many adventures the children managed to change themselves back, and the human child told her mother that "You saved me many times with your love. When my father wanted to do harm to the troll child, the trolls knew it, and prepared to do the same to me. But you saved the troll child, and the trolls stopped what they were doing. So here I am, alive and healthy!"


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## Dwarf Dad

Wikipedia says the publication still printing. We can tell by popular movies that elves, trolls, gnomes and wizards still entertain people even if there are no lessons involved.


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## Trollmor

Yes, but the films seldom show any much of the old, real beliefs.

Do you find my entries too much of lessons?


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Yes, but the films seldom show any much of the old, real beliefs.
> 
> Do you find my entries too much of lessons?


Not me. I may be not doing chores while I am learning,but, they will get done.


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## Trollmor

Dwarf Dad said:


> Not me. I may be not doing chores while I am learning,but, they will get done.


Actually, I think mainly of you when typing these little pieces of information. Will you appreciate some more about the old beliefs?


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Actually, I think mainly of you when typing these little pieces of information. Will you appreciate some more about the old beliefs?


Yes. I do appreciate learning about the old beliefs.


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## Trollmor

OK, one very common "knowledge" is that trolls are active during the night. When the sun shines at them, they explode!

This is connected to the belief that trolls are scaring. When walking in the forest during the night, stones do look like live beings, especially in a time when there were bears and wolfs in the forest. You stumble over roots, slide on stones, and twigs frequently smash your face again and again. mg:

When the sun rises, we can see that the "trolls" are only peaceful rocks.

Other stories tell that humans and trolls can meet like any good neighburs. _(Why can I not learn how to spell this word?)_


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## Dwarf Dad

Neighbour is the Old English spelling. There are a lot of different spellings for it, just not used anymore. You are spelling it the way it is pronounced.


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## Trollmor

neighbour ... No, it gets marked as misspelled anyway.

Ready for more old sagas?

I have the impression that trolls are older than Thor and Oden/Wodan. These gods brought the iron to our area. Trolls cannot pass an object made from iron. Therefore people up to recent ages did put a pair of scissors under the newly born baby, to protect him/her from being stolen by trolls, especially before he/she was baptized, which usually was done as soon as possible.

You can also find an object made from iron, often a pair of scissors, built into houses, even in houses made with concrete. And inside the animals' fodder place. And ...

Places and persons that needed extra protection.


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## Dwarf Dad

*Alternative formsEdit*

neighbor (_American_)
neyghbour (_archaic_)
naybor, naybour, neibor, neibour, neighbore, neighboure, neyghbor, neyghbore, neyghboure(_obsolete_)
Didn't know that. No old beliefs here. Natchez Indians, native americans from this region, were massacred by french soldiers in late 1700's.


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## mariarose

I learned the *our* form of spelling words that are now commonly or. Such as neighbour, flavour, colour. I got tired of being told it was wrong, so I added them to my dictionary.


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## Trollmor

Dwarf Dad said:


> *Alternative formsEdit*
> 
> neighbor (_American_)
> neyghbour (_archaic_)
> naybor, naybour, neibor, neibour, neighbore, neighboure, neyghbor, neyghbore, neyghboure(_obsolete_)
> Didn't know that. No old beliefs here. Natchez Indians, native americans from this region, were massacred by french soldiers in late 1700's.


So only the name remains?


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## Dwarf Dad

The name and a small museum on their old homesite.


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## Trollmor

That was about spelling. Now to something international. If any of you can help us all to translate this thread:

https://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=193269.msg1803803#msg1803803

maybe you will agree that the things discussed on different forums can be rather similar?

I will be interested to learn about more forums with similar function.


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## Trollmor

Dwarf Dad said:


> The name and a small museum on their old homesite.


Aha, you are online!  I have failed to learn any much about the old cultures in America. Specially interested in the northern forrest peoples, living in matriarcates. Would like to copy the best parts, but how do we copy something that has not been studied or described?


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## Dwarf Dad

That is true. I don't know if the Natchez Indian tribe were matriarch societies or not. They were of the Mound Builders sect of Native Americans. In this part of southern USA there are numerous different Indian Mound sites. Grand Village of the Natchez Indians, Emerald Mound, a mound in Louisiana that I don't remember the name of and a popular tourist site in Memphis, TN called Chucalissa.


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## Trollmor

Mound? =mouth??


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## MadCatX

Mound = a hill of dirt they Indians used to bury their people there. Different tribes did this in different ways...Some put them on funeral pyres, others buried them in mounds..


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Mound? =mouth??


Like @MadCatX said, a hill built by the people. The Mound Builders built large hills to hold their temples and some of their homes. Possibly important people lived atop the mounds. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Mound_Site


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## MadCatX

I dont like messing around them, they give me the heebeegeebys


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## Trollmor

Thank you! Impressive! Makes me think of more than one construction here in Europe. Either people have thought in similar ways, or there must have been a contact long ago .. (Yes, I have been reading Thor Heyerdahl, the professor who went with Ra and Kon-Tiki over the oceans to prove the possibility of early contacts between continents.)


MadCatX said:


> I dont like messing around them, they give me the *heebeegeebys*


 - ?


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## toth boer goats

*If you are asking about heebeegeebys
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=heebeegeebee*


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## Trollmor

Oh, I forgot, I should tell you about the "tomte". In older days, even recently, people believed in the "tomte". Or "the small ones under the earth". Very seldom seen, but very important to a farmer and his family. (Remember, if you see one, beware of staring, just say a polite "Hallo!", and go on with your chores!) The tomte guarded the "tomt", that is the land where your farm lies, and the humans and animals who lived there. He (or she) could talk with the animals, was very strong, but small, usually only a hand high, or a yard, with grey clothes. Every Christmas Eve you must give the Tomte pay for all his work, by putting food, preferably good porridge with butter. You put it on the stairs, where he can easily find it.

Later in history the Tomte has become Jultomte. (Jul = Christmas.) The painter Jenny Nyström looked at her beloved father, and painted lots of images of the Jultomte, which have influenced our imagination of the Jultomte a great deal. And he also got rather mixed up with the American Santa Claus, though he never says "Ho, Ho, Ho". Her says "Are there any nice children here?" And the mother of the house says "Oh yes, these children have been so very nice all year!" After which the Jultomte leaves a big sac with christmas presents, and leaves.

Whereafter Daddy returns from buying the newspaper, very astonished that the Jultomte has been there, exactly when he was out for a moment ...


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## Trollmor

Aha, thanks, toth boer goats!


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## MadCatX

Tomte= Trolls for me.

But yeah, I'm a dude that takes burial sites, cemeteries, etc..pretty dang seriously..dont fool with it lol. I do have and keep black cats at all times..muahahahaahah


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## Trollmor

MadCatX said:


> Tomte= Trolls for me.
> 
> But yeah, I'm a dude that takes burial sites, cemeteries, etc..pretty dang seriously..dont fool with it lol. I do have and keep black cats at all times..muahahahaahah


They might be related, but not the same. Here. Trolls live in forrests and rocks, while tomtar live in farms, helping the people both to run the farm - and to behave well!

(Do you really know what it MEANS, if a black cat crosses your path from the left?)


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## MadCatX

In America - Black cats crossing your path is generally regarded as bad luck. I just likee keeping them around haha. 

yeah to me a troll is a little evil things, small in stature from the hills


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## Trollmor

In the old Nordic sagas trolls can be gigantic. My personal theory is that they are part of very old religious believes that Nature is full with gods, like for example big mountains.

Now, dear friends, if a cat - black or not - is crossing your path, it means that the cat has an _errand_ on that side of your human path!


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## MadCatX

lol awesome


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Now, dear friends, if a cat - black or not - is crossing your path, it means that the cat has an _errand_ on that side of your human path!


Ha ha! I wonder where the bad luck came from?


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## Trollmor

Dwarf Dad said:


> Ha ha! I wonder where the bad luck came from?


Not from the innocent animal anyway!


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## Trollmor

Did I tell you the fairy tale about the farm hand who married a troll woman? Remind me if I forget!


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## wifeof1

Tell the story. Please.


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## Dwarf Dad

Yes, please tell the story.


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## Trollmor

Okay, but not now. Busy. Remind me again if I forget!


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Okay, but not now. Busy. Remind me again if I forget!


You are such a tease.lol


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## Trollmor

Now, let us see how far I get before chores interrupt me again!

Once upon a time

a farm hand walked far away into the forrest. This was not totally safe in those days, with both brown bear, wolf, and trolls to look out for. But he needed material for a fine gift to the woman he would like to marry, and he went further into the forrest than he used to.

But he stopped in his tracks when he saw the most beautiful young troll woman. He decided he wanted to talk with her, and to prevent her from running away if she got scared, he took out his knife and threw it over her head, so that it landed beyond her.

For modern listeners it may be necessary to explain that trolls actually can change the view of people, so that you see what the trolls want you to see, rather than what is really there. For example, if you happen to glance at a heap of gold belonging to a troll, the owner can make you see just a heap of rotten leaves. And reverse. (Damfino has shared a nice photo of really golden leaves.) Now, our farm hand did not think of this possibility, and this woman obviously was really young and beautiful.

She showed no sign of minding the knife being thrown over her. (Here, I might have to explain that trolls, being older than Oden/Wodan and Thor, could not pass a piece of iron. Oden and Thor introduced iron into our lands.)

The young man started talking, and she answered. They chatted for a long while, and finally decided she would ask her father if he would allow a marriage.


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## Trollmor

Once upon a time, part 2

Of course it was not easy for the troll father to loose his daughter to the Christians. But he loved her very much, and he saw that she actually loved this young man. So he said yes.

And the young troll woman moved to the arable land, to marry a young farm hand. She went beside him to the altar, and they both promised to love one another "in need and desire".* The farm hand kissed his bride, and they were very happy. His family made a feast as great as they could afford, being a family of farm hands and not of farmers. Of _course_ the bride's father was not invited to this feast for Christians. But he came anyway, to leave a gift for his beloved daughter. He was not allowed in, these people were _Christians_. But the troll father found advice, and climbed up onto the roof. There, he let go his gift down the chimney. The party participants heard something falling down into the fire, and the young house wife took a tool and picked out one golden coin after the other. A big heap of golden coins, that was her dowry.

_* (When the princess Christina of Sweden married, this was broadcasted in the Public Service Television. She was a bit nervous, who would not have been, and I and the rest of the Swedish people heard her promise to love this Thord Magnusson "in need and nesire". As far as I know, they are still married, so it must have been good enough.)_


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## Trollmor

(I hope the translation machine gave me the right word, 'dowry'. Something valuable the woman brings to her new home when marrying. Usually, it remains hers during all the marriage.)


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## Goats Rock

Yep, Dowry is correct. Your stories are great!


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## Trollmor

Thanks. I will continue when I am not so tired.


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## Trollmor

Once upon a time, part 3

During those days, a married woman could not possess anything, so her husband the farm hand was all of a sudden rich! He bought himself a farm, and became a farmer. They worked hard, and soon had both crops, cows, and a horse. Cows and milk was women's work, horses were men's. There came little children, too, all of them with the typical troll eye brows, going together in the middle, making one long eyebrow over both eyes.

But the farmer, who had been a farm hand, gradually got used to being rich, not having to work all day, having a loving wife who did much of the work. So he started to visit the local inn, where he found friends who gladly shared his beer. One single gold coin could buy many glasses of beer. The horse waited outside.

When he came home drunk, the farmer also started to beat his wife.


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## Dwarf Dad

Like is for part three of story, NOT for drunk and beating wife.


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## MadCatX

I'm loving this


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## Trollmor

Part 4 when I can. Tired and hungry right now. Need some words, too, for example the horse shoe, or do you call it hoof iron?


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Part 4 when I can. Tired and hungry right now. Need some words, too, for example the horse shoe, or do you call it hoof iron?


Horse shoe.


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## Lindan

What a cool story, I don't recognise it from Danish lore, it's funny how different neighbouring countries lore can be


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## Trollmor

Danish?


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## Lindan

Trollmor said:


> Danish?


Jep. Hernede i Danmark sidder jeg med min lille flok geder og venter på babier. :kid:


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## Trollmor

Ojdå! I suspect we will get more popular on this American forum, if we take the rest of my Danish Reading Practice in a Private Conversation, to which I look very much forward!

I am still tired and have a heap of chores, but sooooon I will type Part 4!  

I hope.:hide:


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## Lindan

Very true!
I am looking forward to reading the rest.


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## Trollmor

Once upon a time, part 4
(I will most probably need help with many words!)

One day, when the farmer had harnessed his horse, to go to the inn, and strapped (?) it to the cart, he discovered that one horse shoe was missing. He unstrapped again, and tied the horse to the stable wall. Went into the forge (?) to get a new horse shue. He could only find one that was too big. So he started to look for his big pincers (?) instead, but could not find them (?) neither. He started swearing and throwing things around.

His wife came out from the house.

"What is wrong, dear husband?"
"I need a horse shoe, but this one is too big!!" He threw it towards her.
"How much material must go?" she asked, picking up the horse shoe. "Will this fit the hoof?" And she shrugged (??) off the ends with her fingers, giving the horse shoe back to him.
He stared at her.
"How strong are you, really??"
"Roughly like most trolls, I believe."
"But... But, why have you not done anything when I beat you??"
"Well, I have promised to love you in need and desire. When you beat me, that was need."

The farmer never more beat his wife, and he worked a lot more at home after this, staying home from the inn. His friends missed him, or maybe rather his beer, and the innkeeper certainly missed him very much.


----------



## Trollmor

Lindan said:


> Very true!
> I am looking forward to reading the rest.


Thank you! Here it came. I hope you all will help me to get those words right!


----------



## toth boer goats

Lindan said:


> Jep. Hernede i Danmark sidder jeg med min lille flok geder og venter på babier. :kid:


 Yep, we do not understand what is being said here. Translation will help, unless you two can have a private conversation and write your beautiful language privately.


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## Lindan

toth boer goats said:


> Yep, we do not understand what is being said here. Translation will help, unless you two can have a private conversation and write your beautiful language privately.


Sorry
I wrote that I'm sitting down here in Denmark waiting for babies:run:


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> Yep, we do not understand what is being said here. Translation will help, unless you two can have a private conversation and write your beautiful language privately.


It says "Jep. Down here in Denmark I sit with my little flock of goats, waiting for babies."

Ah, it has already been translated. But I post this anyway! Sooo nice to talk with you all!


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## Trollmor

In addition to the words I hesitate about, I would like to start a thread - or find the one maybe already running - that gives us a chance to learn and compare. For now we have members from, let me see, USA, Canada, Ecuador, Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Pakistan, and Namibia. Possibly still more which I have not seen. But where do I start it? If I am the one to start it!


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## goathiker

Trollmor said:


> Once upon a time, part 4
> (I will most probably need help with many words!)
> 
> One day, when the farmer had harnessed his horse, to go to the inn, and strapped (?) it to the cart.
> 
> He unstrapped again, and tied the horse to the stable wall. Went into the forge (?)
> 
> So he started to look for his big pincers (?) instead, but could not find them (?) neither.
> 
> And she shrugged (??) off the ends with her fingers, giving the horse shoe.


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## goathiker

Hitched it to the cart

Forge, smithy, or metal shop all work here 

Looked for his big nippers
Couldn't find them either 

She pinched off the ends


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## goathiker

Rule for neither and either 

Neither before action 
Neither of the tools could be found. 
Neither of these goats are acceptable 

Either after action 
Can't find either of the tools. 
Don't like either of the goats.


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## Trollmor

Thank you, goathiker!

Once upon a time, part 4

One day, when the farmer had harnessed his horse, to go to the inn, and hitched it to the cart, he discovered that one horse shoe was missing. He unhitched again, and tied the horse to the stable wall. Went into his metal shop, to get a new horse shoe. He could only find one that was too big. So he started to look for his big nippers instead, but could not find them either. He started swearing and throwing things around.

His wife came out from the house.

"What is wrong, dear husband?"
"I need a horse shoe, but this one is too big!!" He threw it towards her.
"How much material must go?" she asked, picking up the horse shoe. "Will this fit the hoof?" And she pinched off the ends with her fingers, giving the horse shoe back to him.
He stared at her.
"How strong are you, really??"
"Roughly like most trolls, I believe."
"But... But, why have you not done anything when I beat you??"
"Well, I have promised to love you in need and desire. When you beat me, that was need."

The farmer never more beat his wife, and he worked a lot more at home after this, staying home from the inn. His friends missed him, or maybe rather his beer, and the innkeeper certainly missed him very much.


----------



## Trollmor

goathiker said:


> Rule for neither and either
> 
> Neither before action
> Neither of the tools could be found.
> Neither of these goats are acceptable
> 
> Either after action
> Can't find either of the tools.
> Don't like either of the goats.


Oh. And I was taught that neither was for something in a row of things that are not, and either for the first time: I cannot find the horse shoe, and not the nippers neither. I would have typed Don't like any of the goats.

Thank you!

- Anything else that could be bettered in the language of the story, before I put the parts together here?


----------



## goathiker

You're doing fine really.

You question marked nippers. They are this tool.


----------



## goathiker

One thing about language. 
While most American people can understand English, we speak American. Real English has different rules.


----------



## Trollmor

goathiker said:


> You're doing fine really.
> 
> You question marked nippers. They are this tool.
> View attachment 147945


Yes, that is what I think the farmer looked for. I am thinking of other readers, just imagine if we could share stories from around the globe!  

I know that American and British English are different. I was taught BE in school, and have stuck to it, mainly because I cannot keep them apart if I try to use both. Of course I must understand both if I am to communicate globe wide, which is my main purpose with my language studies!


----------



## Trollmor

Let me test if all 4 parts go into one entry!


----------



## Trollmor

Once upon a time

a farm hand walked far away into the forrest. This was not totally safe in those days, with both brown bears, wolfs, and trolls to look out for. But he needed material for a very special piece of carpentry work, and he went further into the forrest than he used to.

But he stopped in his tracks when he saw the most beautiful young troll woman. He decided he wanted to talk with her, and to prevent her from running away if she got scared, he took out his knife and threw it over her head, so that it landed beyond her.

For modern listeners it may be necessary to explain that trolls actually can change the view of people, so that you see what the trolls want you to see, rather than what is really there. For example, if you happen to glance at a heap of gold belonging to a troll, the owner can make you see just a heap of rotten leaves. And reverse. Our farm hand did not think of this possibility, and this woman obviously was really young and beautiful.

She showed no sign of minding the knife being thrown over her. (Here, I might have to explain that trolls, being older than Oden/Wodan and Thor, could not pass a piece of iron. Oden and Thor introduced iron into our lands.)

The young man started talking, and she answered. They chatted for a long while, and finally decided she would ask her father if he would allow a marriage.

Of course it was not easy for the troll father to loose his daughter to the Christians. (All trolls are heathens.) But he loved her very much, and he saw that she actually loved this young man. So he said yes.

And the young troll woman moved to the arable land, to marry a young farm hand. She went beside him to the altar, and they both promised to love one another "in need and desire". The farm hand kissed his bride, and they were very happy. His family made a feast as great as they could afford, being a family of farm hands and not of farmers. Of _course _the bride's father was not invited to this feast for _Christians_. But he came anyway, to leave a gift for his beloved daughter. He was not allowed in, these people were _Christians_. But the troll father found advice, and climbed up onto the roof. There, he let go his gift down the chimney. The party participants heard something falling down into the fire, and the young house wife took a tool and picked out one golden coin after the other. A big heap of golden coins, that was her dowry.

During those days, a married woman could not possess anything, so her husband the farm hand was all of a sudden rich! He bought himself a farm, and became a farmer. They worked hard, and soon had both crops, cows, and a horse. Cows and milk was women's work, horses were men's. There came little children, too, all of them with the typical troll eye brows, going together in the middle, making one long eyebrow over both eyes.

But the farmer, who had been a farm hand, gradually got used to being rich, not having to work all day, having a loving wife who did much of the work. So he started to visit the local inn, where he found friends who gladly shared his beer. One single gold coin could buy many glasses of beer. The horse waited outside.

When he came home drunk, the farmer also started to beat his wife.

One day, when the farmer had harnessed his horse, to go to the inn, and hitched it to the cart, he discovered that one horse shoe was missing. He unhitched again, and tied the horse to the stable wall. Went into his metal shop, to get a new horse shoe. He could only find one that was too big. So he started to look for his big nippers instead, but could not find them either. He started swearing and throwing things around.

His wife came out from the house.

"What is wrong, dear husband?"
"I need a horse shoe, but this one is too big!!" He threw it towards her.
"How much material must go?" she asked, picking up the horse shoe. "Will this fit the hoof?"  And she pinched off the ends with her fingers, giving the horse shoe back to him.
He stared at her.
"How strong are you, really??"
"Roughly like most trolls, I believe."
"But... But, why have you not done anything when I beat you??"
"Well, I have promised to love you in need and desire. When you beat me, that was need."

The farmer never more beat his wife, and he worked a lot more at home after this, staying home from the inn. His friends missed him, or maybe rather his beer, and the innkeeper certainly missed him very much.


----------



## The goat girl

Trollmor said:


> Once upon a time
> 
> a farm hand walked far away into the forrest. This was not totally safe in those days, with both brown bear, wolf, and trolls to look out for. But he needed material for a fine gift to the woman he would like to marry, and he went further into the forrest than he used to.
> 
> But he stopped in his tracks when he saw the most beautiful young troll woman. He decided he wanted to talk with her, and to prevent her from running away if she got scared, he took out his knife and threw it over her head, so that it landed beyond her.
> 
> For modern listeners it may be necessary to explain that trolls actually can change the view of people, so that you see what the trolls want you to see, rather than what is really there. For example, if you happen to glance at a heap of gold belonging to a troll, the owner can make you see just a heap of rotten leaves. And reverse. (Damfino has shared a nice photo of really golden leaves.) Now, our farm hand did not think of this possibility, and this woman obviously was really young and beautiful.
> 
> She showed no sign of minding the knife being thrown over her. (Here, I might have to explain that trolls, being older than Oden/Wodan and Thor, could not pass a piece of iron. Oden and Thor introduced iron into our lands.)
> 
> The young man started talking, and she answered. They chatted for a long while, and finally decided she would ask her father if he would allow a marriage.
> 
> Of course it was not easy for the troll father to loose his daughter to the Christians. But he loved her very much, and he saw that she actually loved this young man. So he said yes.
> 
> And the young troll woman moved to the arable land, to marry a young farm hand. She went beside him to the altar, and they both promised to love one another "in need and desire".* The farm hand kissed his bride, and they were very happy. His family made a feast as great as they could afford, being a family of farm hands and not of farmers. Of _course_the bride's father was not invited to this feast for Christians. But he came anyway, to leave a gift for his beloved daughter. He was not allowed in, these people were _Christians_. But the troll father found advice, and climbed up onto the roof. There, he let go his gift down the chimney. The party participants heard something falling down into the fire, and the young house wife took a tool and picked out one golden coin after the other. A big heap of golden coins, that was her dowry.
> 
> _* (When the princess Christina of Sweden married, this was broadcasted in the Public Service Television. She was a bit nervous, who would not have been, and I and the rest of the Swedish people heard her promise to love this Thord Magnusson "in need and nesire". As far as I know, they are still married, so it must have been good enough.)
> _
> During those days, a married woman could not possess anything, so her husband the farm hand was all of a sudden rich! He bought himself a farm, and became a farmer. They worked hard, and soon had both crops, cows, and a horse. Cows and milk was women's work, horses were men's. There came little children, too, all of them with the typical troll eye brows, going together in the middle, making one long eyebrow over both eyes.
> 
> But the farmer, who had been a farm hand, gradually got used to being rich, not having to work all day, having a loving wife who did much of the work. So he started to visit the local inn, where he found friends who gladly shared his beer. One single gold coin could buy many glasses of beer. The horse waited outside.
> 
> When he came home drunk, the farmer also started to beat his wife.
> 
> One day, when the farmer had harnessed his horse, to go to the inn, and hitched it to the cart, he discovered that one horse shoe was missing. He unhitched again, and tied the horse to the stable wall. Went into his metal shop, to get a new horse shoe. He could only find one that was too big. So he started to look for his big nippers instead, but could not find them either. He started swearing and throwing things around.
> 
> His wife came out from the house.
> 
> "What is wrong, dear husband?"
> "I need a horse shoe, but this one is too big!!" He threw it towards her.
> "How much material must go?" she asked, picking up the horse shoe. "Will this fit the hoof?" And she pinched off the ends with her fingers, giving the horse shoe back to him.
> He stared at her.
> "How strong are you, really??"
> "Roughly like most trolls, I believe."
> "But... But, why have you not done anything when I beat you??"
> "Well, I have promised to love you in need and desire. When you beat me, that was need."
> 
> The farmer never more beat his wife, and he worked a lot more at home after this, staying home from the inn. His friends missed him, or maybe rather his beer, and the innkeeper certainly missed him very much.


WOW what a story!!! I almost cried at the end! (not really) Well, you should write children's books!


----------



## Trollmor

The goat girl said:


> WOW what a story!!! I almost cried at the end! (not really) Well, you should write children's books!


Thanks, but the story is not mine! It is old.


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## The goat girl

Trollmor said:


> Thanks, but the story is not mine! It is old.


That's okay! It is still a good story!


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## Trollmor

I begin to be a little annoyed at the commercials, that are now getting in my way on the screen. Any advice as to switching it off?


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## goathiker

The easiest way is to pay $20 USD per year for ad free service. We all have to do it or put up with the ads


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## Trollmor

Twenty dollars per year for one single home page ... Hm ... And I borrow computers at my friends' ... onder:


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## Trollmor

Hallo everyone! Can somebody help me to learn English?

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/cursing-is-not-allowed.176960/#post-2204767


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## toth boer goats

Not cursing, sorry Trollmor.


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## Trollmor

Why not? I have been in trouble here because I did not know, why can I not learn? You do not think I will use those words in threads, do you???


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## toth boer goats

You are not in trouble here on TGS Trollmor. :hug:

A lot of us are in kidding season and some of us are caring for ill goat kids and mama's now, so really busy. 

Learning to curse, most don't like teaching it, when they were raised not to used the words. 
Mom and Dad may be watching.(embarrassed) ops2:


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## Trollmor

Actually, I want to learn not to curse! But, like Emil in Lönneberga's little sister, I need to know the words I must avoid!  A nice group of people have joined my PM conversation, and we try to sort things out. I never imagined there could be so many of these words ...


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## toth boer goats

:great:


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## Trollmor

Trollmor said:


> Remind me to tell you the story/ies about my new-old avatar! First, though, you may have some fun guessing and discussing! (Anna in the Forest, please do not help them, not yet, give them all some fun first, you have most probably already seen what it is!)


I constantly forget to give you the solution of my picture to the left. It is supposed to be a troll woman with a big nose, and dragging her long cow-like tail behind her. I made her without legs, for I do believe that in some ways she is merely a big stone ...


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## Dwarf Dad

I thought something similar, did not think of the big nose.


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## wifeof1

I thought it was a cat.


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## Trollmor

Mieww?

Maybe John Bauer http://www.johnbauerart.se and Tove Jansson https://www.moomin.com/sv/figurer/mumintroll/ inspired me, I don't know. But I know that I was mobbed when choosing my nick, so it has to do with someone outside the normal society.

As for stories, is it time now for the nisser who did not find any butter in his christmas porridge? Any of you who have heard it? Anna by the forest?


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## goathiker

I know that story. My grandma left me a hand typed book of Norwegian and German legends.


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## Trollmor

Ah! It is that wide spread, nice! Probably many variants, then. May I ask you to tell yours?


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## spidy1

Hi guys!!! I just read through the whole thred, I LOVE it!

I would like to know more about the farmers troll ? 

if they cant pass iron then would they live in places like here where there is LOTS of iron in the ground? (I think I need to move where there is not much iron in the ground to meet a troll) or do they just live over where you are from?

maybe I could draw one? if you could describe them to me? (I'm not good on the computer so it would be pencil) 

I was never taught these things so it is very interesting learning about your forest bogeys!
(bogeys=monsters)


----------



## Trollmor

Hi, spidy1! I am not quite sure what you mean by "farmers troll"?

If you want to meet a troll, I strongly recommend old stories like John Bauer, Moomin, and Selma Lagerlöf's "Bortbytingen" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1056158.The_Changeling

If you walk in a Swedish forest, and there is a troll nearby, you will most probably see only a big stone, or a wooden stump. They live where people believe in them.

I do not think any troll or other fairy tale being will notice much any iron ore in the ground. The reason for not being able to pass an iron objects is, that the gods Thor and Oden/Wodan introduced iron to our land (or maybe rather their priests did!), and the new religion tried to fight down the old one. Just like the Christian Church did centuries later, bunching trolls and Thor together to "heathen".

I will like it very much to see your drawings of trolls and other beings of old faiths. For the "tomte" ("farm watcher") you may get inspiration from Jenny Nyström, but the old belief did not understand the "tomte" as only friendly. He was often alone, very keen on keeping the farm well run, and more often than not he disliked changes. I shall try to collect myself into telling the story of the tomte who did not find the butter in his porridge, and I very much look forward to goathiker's version of the same story. Like Cinderella and the others, these old stories have been more or less wide spread, and can be found in many variations.


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## spidy1

Trollmor said:


> "tomte"


yes, that was what I was trying to remember! I will look in to them more, then post drawings!!!


----------



## Trollmor

_troll - tomte - vätte - älva - turs - jätte - småknytt - de små under jorden - näcken - bäckahästen - myling - skogsrå - vittra - varulv - mara - häxa - bortbyting ..._ And these are only a selection of mainly unseen beings more or less believed in during earlier times.


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## goathiker

In Norway nisse is an elf rather than a troll. I will share.


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## Trollmor

goathiker said:


> I know that story. My grandma left me a hand typed book of Norwegian and German legends.


I look forward to your version! Here is the one I have found:

Farm hands and maids sometimes did not appreciate the tomte so much, because they did not plan to stay at that farm for longer than necessary. One farm hand decided to joke OPS! Urgent chores! Continue later!


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## goathiker

Tomte is the Scandinavian version. 
Nisse is Norway, I also have when Nisse fed the stock lol.


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## Trollmor

Okay for _tomtenisse_! Where was I before I got interrupted?

Once upon a time, a farm hand decided to joke with the _tomtenisse_, and put the butter in the bottom of the porridge bowl instead of on top. When the tomte arrived, finding no butter on the porridge, he got angry and went into the cow barn, killing the best cow with one hard blow. A tomte was very strong. He returned to the bowl to at least eat the porridge. At the bottom, he found the butter, and regretted what he had done. He carried the dead cow through many farms, until he found a similar cow, looking like the dead cow, and milking just as well. He exchanged the cows, and the farmer on his own farm never noticed any difference. The story does not tell what the farmer thought, who found a dead cow in his barn in the morning.


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## spidy1

no problem!!!! here you go!!!


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## Trollmor

Now I found it at once!


----------



## Trollmor

So, here is some nice "fodder" for the translation machines:

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tors_färd_till_Utgårdaloke

Only for those who actually like reading about old Nordic stories! 

(Some nice comics drawers have made a book of some of those old stories. Where they add the detail about how little _Röskva_ found out how to tie the _Fenris Wolf_ with the strongest tie possible. Figure out, those who can, from what material that string was made! But, Tyr still lost his hand ...)


----------



## Dwarf Dad

I did not know that Thor had two goats!


----------



## Trollmor

Dwarf Dad said:


> I did not know that Thor had two goats!


Good you learnt now, then! Tanngreisnr and Tanngnisr, or what they were called ... My teflon memory again!

But, I hope you have heard the cart, when Thor fights the evil forces? You may even see the lights that come from his hammer hitting the ground, or hitting some evil giant, and hear the thunder that comes afterwards, followed by the noise of the bucks and the cart going fast through the air, on their way to the next hit? Also called thunder weather. Beware of getting in his way, he has no chance to make way!!


----------



## Trollmor

MadCatX said:


> Mound = a hill of dirt they Indians used to bury their people there. Different tribes did this in different ways...Some put them on funeral pyres, others buried them in mounds..


Something like this???
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamla_Uppsala_fornlämningsområde
(Hope you can see it, over there!)


----------



## MadCatX

Yes - unfortunately it didnt convert to English but yep that looks right


----------



## Trollmor

MadCatX said:


> Yes - unfortunately it didnt convert to English but yep that looks right


The hills on those pictures are called _Kungshögarna_, "The Kings' Mounds", and are "world famous all over Sweden". And, just today (!!!) I saw a commercial urging people to visit this open air museum (and the nearby very expensive restaurant, and very expensive souvenir shop!), where I learnt that the English word was - Mounds!

I find it rather interesting that the same technique has been used centuries ago for very similar purposes, on both sides of the Atlantic.

Also old, maybe still older than the Mounds, is the still today live tradition of celebrating Summer Solstice. (Did I get that word right?) With a feast outdoors, containing, among other things, a dance around a pole. Both here in the Upper North, and among Native people of the Northern America.


----------



## Trollmor

mariarose said:


> Yes, Idioms do not translate to other languages. I can't even imagine the gibberish I'd utter if I tried to speak Swedish! Even without idioms!!!


Hihi, I can teach you! Let us begin with the most important word: '_get'_ pronounced like "yeat", meaning GOAT!!!


----------



## Trollmor

I wish you all a very nice Summer Solstice! Here, people cannot think of much other than celebrating this very important feast! Many drink too much, which is tragic. But many also dance around the Midsummer Pole, playing with their kids.

"The little frogs, the little frogs,
are funny to behold:
No ears, no ears
No tails do they have!
Co-ack-ack-ack, Co-ack-ack-ack, Co-ack-ack-ack-aaa,
Co-ack-ack-ack, Co-ack-ack-ack, Co-ack-ack-ack-aaa!"

And we jump around the pole, mimicing frogs!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Thank you. I guess in the far North it is something to celebrate. Here it just means more hot and humid weather.93*F or 33.9* C and 93% humidity is the forecast for today.


----------



## MellonFriend

Me and my family actually celebrate Midsummer's eve, because of our love for Lord of the Rings. It usually just means we eat a lot of summer-y food, dance, and stay outside late. This year we were actually having some trouble figuring out some activities to do at the party. I'm going to look around the internet at summer party games.


----------



## Trollmor

40 - 43°Celcius! mg:I would most probably faint by only looking out through a window!

We have "only" 25°, and that is also awful!

Feast traditions? Here, we erect a pole. In Finland they have a big fire. (Maybe not so safe when heat has dried the land ...)

Let me know if this is interesting:




I cannot watch myself, as you might remember.


----------



## Trollmor

Anyone here interested in food and other traditions tied to Midsummer celebration?


----------



## NigerianNewbie

I would enjoying reading more about the Midsummer celebration please. What is the symbolism of raising the pole?


----------



## Trollmor

Hm, I do not know. Actually, I think nobody knows. Many have suggested a fallos, but others are sure it is not. I think it is.

There are many stubborn beliefs around midsummer and midwinter. The strength of the sun is believed to be strongest around midsummer, which makes it sensible to save herbs and the like that are picked by midsummer to the Christmas Table, where many have saved the "sowing cake" for sowing time in the spring.

More later! Dinner time!


----------



## Trollmor

Let me see ... Compulsory dishes for Midsummer: Sour herring, newly harvested potatoes, strawberry cake.

And ale ... For many, not for me!

Compulsory dishes for Christmas: Ham!!! And all kinds of accessories, like potatoes, meat balls, herring, candy, ginger bread, fruit ...

As you can see, one dish is the same: The herring. Let me see, if I can find a recipe:

https://www.ica.se/recept/inlagd-sill-grundrecept-389491/

Maybe not the real classic, but close enough.

So, some of the old-time compulsory dances are also the same: The Little Frogs _Små grodorna_, mainly for entertaining the youngest, but Cut The Oats _Skära skära havre_, and The Girl Goes Into the Ring _Flickan går i ringen_ is for people in ages ready to think of marriage.

And then the Long Dance, which I have not seen since I was a little child. But then it was important. Nothing short of having no legs at all would do as an excuse for not participating. All take the hands of two other persons. The leader dances first, in my childhood is was the old woman who owned the house. All sing the old ridiculous songs, like Andrew Peterson's cottage Burns _Anders Petters stuga står i ljusan låga, alla ljusen brinner upp-san!!_, probably mainly to keep the rhythm. The "dancing" is merely a slow running, and the important thing is that everybody participates, and that the dance goes through every single room (winter), or all over the arable land (summer). I guess it is some kind of blessing ritual.

I suppose that the Long Dance has disappeared because of today's celebrating at places in the city, not really a family business any more.

So, dear friends, what might more be interesting?


----------



## Trollmor

Oops! wrong! _Små grodorna_ is for Midsummer. At Christmas we sing that Now Again Is Christmas, and Staffan Was A Farm Hand.


----------



## Trollmor

When Christianity arrived with Catholic monks around the year 1000, the church did not approve (of??) the old beliefs. I am unsure, but at least two older religions were here, and they apparently did not totally disappear. As late as in the 18-hundreds there were steady beliefs that there were trolls, small folks, giants, and other beings in the nature, and that the Solstices were immense important. Like the cycles of the moon. An old lady in my family (born in 1915) told me, that in her youth there was a tradition to get out in the evening and curtsey three times to the new moon. Probably especially if you were a woman wanting a child!


----------



## Trollmor

Friends, I got a question from a visiting friend, and I had to start a new thread:

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/how-old-do-they-get.206675/


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## spidy1

I replied with the best info I have...


----------



## Trollmor

Yes, I saw that. I added the link here, hoping to get more answers in that thread!


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## Trollmor

Got a question from my friend, who also likes goats:

"Are there any cross breeds with Boer + Bakra? Pictures? I am pondering about a heavy pack goat!"

@toth boer goats ? @Damfino ?

Yes, also my friends are a bit crazy! Goat-oholics! I hope you will understand ...  Oh yes, I _have_ shared a link to the GAA thread!


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## spidy1

Bakra goats are not in the USA, they dont export them out of Pakistan, I so wish they would... I believe they are one of the sacred breeds they have, they are SOOO beautiful! the closest we have is the Nubian


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## Damfino

Trollmor said:


> Got a question from my friend, who also likes goats:
> 
> "Are there any cross breeds with Boer + Bakra? Pictures? I am pondering about a heavy pack goat!"


I never even heard of a Bakra until you mentioned it. Boer and Bakra goats are from different continents so I doubt they've been crossed. Looking at their conformation, I don't think they would make good packgoats. I personally do not like Boer or Boer crosses for packgoats because they are much too heavy, wide, and short-legged. They are notoriously difficult to fit saddles to (even worse than Nubians!). It looks like the Bakra goat would be even worse to fit saddles to. It appears they are bred to have extreme swaybacks, which is a very weak design for carrying weight. Bigger does not equal better when it comes to packgoats. For example, Sputnik is significantly bigger than Finn, but Finn can carry more weight for a longer, more difficult trail than Sputnik because Finn has stronger, more athletic conformation.


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## Trollmor

@spidy1 thanks! I wonder how it would be to try to import some goats from the USA to Sweden, then. (Yes, my friend is really rather crazy, guess why we are friends ...)

@Damfino , I had not heard of them neither. I will send a link to your answer to my friend.


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## Trollmor

From another thread:


mariarose said:


> SAVE THE LEAVES AND TWIGS!
> SAVE THE LEAVES AND TWIGS!


How? I will give them to the GOATS, and they will EAT them ...

For those of you who wonder how this began:
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/desirable-width.207501/page-2#post-2284761


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## Trollmor

Does anyone know how things have developed for the two goats who got dehorned by a vet with a big nippers, and then managed to take off the bandages?

*Constantly unable to find threads ...*


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## NigerianNewbie

@Trollmor that post is "Dehorning yearling does..." thread was created by Mariella. Don't know how to create a link to it for you.


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## MellonFriend

NigerianNewbie said:


> @Trollmor that post is "Dehorning yearling does..." thread was created by Mariella. Don't know how to create a link to it for you.


If you go to the page you want, copy the web address, and then click the little link icon in the reply box, you can paste the link that way.
Here it is:
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/dehorning-yearling-does-will-contain-bloody-pictures.207429/
I feel like the imbedded search bar here is really bad. If I am ever looking for something I just search it on google with "the goat spot" tacked on the end.


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## Trollmor

Thanks, both of you! I just cannot stop thinking of those poor goats.


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## Trollmor

So, all of a sudden, being as irritated as I usually am, at all those commercials, when I search one, there is none to see ... Does anyone have a clue?


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## Trollmor

Hi, friends! Trying to enlarge my language studies, I have found this site:

https://ziegen-treff.de/forum/index...ultimative-heuraufe/&postID=218306#post218306

This thread is about hayracks, but, do you agree, this member has really understood why we have GOATS!


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## Dwarf Dad

@Trollmor , a little piece of Natchez, MS history for you.
http://www.hannapub.com/concordiase...cle_e27a449a-da3f-11e9-8c07-ef04a4c8e0aa.html


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## Trollmor

Oooops! 
*451: Unavailable due to legal reasons*
We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU ...


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## Dwarf Dad

Trollmor said:


> Oooops!
> *451: Unavailable due to legal reasons*
> We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU ...


Wow! I had no idea. 
It was a newspaper article about how cotton became King, in the southern USA.


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## Trollmor

Interesting. Cotton not for export ...


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## Trollmor

IT IS BEING TRANSLATED! IT IS BEING TRANSLATED!

https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/swede-hollow

This book, founded on research of real things, has gone deep under my skin, and I constantly think of the persons in it. So here is a possibility for you to read at least the "back page", if you wish!


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## Trollmor

Thanks for the likes!  Most honoured. May I hope that someone of you gets hands on a copy and tells me thoughts after having read it? (Are there good public libraries in your country? Then they might buy a copy after suggestion.)


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## Trollmor

Since "Swede Hollow" I have re-read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Very much the same story, though with different endings. Any comments?


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## Trollmor

After having been told that my entries belong to Private Messages, I have tried to remember who wanted to talk about those things, and how to get into contact with you. Anyone willing to include me to a Conversation?

Thank you.


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