# question re: CL



## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey all

I noticed a lump on the front left shoulder of a doe a few months back but like most things I waited to see what would come of it. It has slowly grown in size but she seems otherwise healthy. I later noticed a similar bump on another doe in the same spot but on the other side. I did some research on CL and it looks like its the same spot they mention. Today I went back and noticed another lump on a bucklings jaw. Now Im starting to get concerned that I got CL running in my herd.

I did some research on treatment and it seems some people have had success treating with formalin injections into the abscesses.

Here are my questions:

1- Has anyone tried formalin injections? any advice/suggestions?

2- Is it true lymphatic CL is more common than internal CL in the organs? 

3- If i treat the symptoms via injections is it possible to eradicate it from my herd over time?

4- Is it safe to eat a goat that has CL? i run a meat goat herd and I dont want to sell anything unfit for consumption.

Thanks for all your help guys.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

1. What i'm reading about the use of formalin is interesting...but not sure how this would compare to just straight out lancing and cleaning the area. But CL is incurrable...the common thing to do is separate the goat, lance the abscess and clean the area. Make sure you wear gloves, don't get it on you, lance the goat in an area where the ground can be disinfected. It has been said to be spreadable to people and is very contagious to other goats. I would collect some of the puss/fluid/etc. and send it into a lab/vet for testing to see if it is CL you're dealing with. 

2. Yes, the external abscesses are more common.

3. If this is CL that you're dealing with, you can't get rid of the disease itself, just the external abscesses...there's no cure and those goats that had external abscesses could very well develope internal and spread the disease further. The formalin is just something you can try and control it with. 

4. Yes.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hello sorry you are going threw this ... A few weeks back I got my first cl abscess, I used the formalin, It has stopped growing in size, but takes a while to do its thing. The issue with lancing is that it is so hard to clean all that puss out to keep it from going to other goats, one little drop of the puss in a open sore of another goat and that goat has it. The formalin kinda kills it and makes it where there is nothing to give to other goats. If you go back and look at other posts different people have different ideas about cl, I raise goats for meat so cl is not the biggest deal to have to deal with, BUT I would rather do what I can to try and keep all my goats from getting it. I refuse to sell my best goat that gives great kids over cl. The goats that have cl will have it for the rest of its life, all you can do is try to keep her happy and healthy and know it has it so if it does get it on its insides you are not treating it for something else. Most healthy goats with cl will live a long happy life and die of old age. I have heard that if the lumps keep coming back very often then they dont have that good of a imune system and has more of a chance to get it on their insides. And goats with cl are ok to eat, the cl part will come off with the skin.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

I am so sorry you are going through this! I have a doe with CL, and I will tell you my preferred method of treatment.
I lanced and drained her abscess myself. Well, it looked good but after about a week it doubled in size! So, my next job was to research why it had gotten bigger. I was on Onion Creek Ranches' website and it said that it is possible to lance an abscess too early. When a CL abscess is lanced early, the size of the abscess will increase. After this, I tried a formalin injection. I noticed the abscess start to look smaller, then bigger, then smaller...and finally it burst on it's own. I cleaned the abscess well and kept iodine on it for 5 days. She hasn't had another abscess yet. I really hope this helps you.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I dont think it should burt after the formalin, that is odd, that is the whole reason to turn to it. The lady that I got my cl goat from told me that she lances it then puts tomorrow in it, she says it fights infection and helps dry it up. I will still stick to the formalin, but you have to do it before the hair falls off....I will go out today and look at that doe and let you know what the abscess is doing after I gave it to her, but if it ends up bursting like caprines I think I will go with lancing.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

I know, I found it quite odd. I know it's not supposed to burst after the formalin is injected into the abscess. I wonder if I didn't get enough in there or I didn't get it spread out out enough. It was weird.... Thank you Jessica if my doe ever gets another abscess, I will have to try the Tomorrow. I have never heard of that!


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

First step is to get your goat tested for the CL. -Then you will know what you are up against but until you get those results back separate these animals from the rest. Everyone has different opinions on what to do with this disease. I do not feel it is ever good to sell or give a CL infected goat to another owner because in doing so- it is just causing this disease to spread. CL is popping up more and more in goat herds. 
If we ever had a goat with CL, we would put it down and we have many reasons for doing this: First of all- that goat would have to be seperated from the herd. (Goats hate that) The goat would be so unhappy. 2nd- The goat would require a painful lancing, and from what I understand to have read- formalin is not a painless treatment for these goats. 3rd- It requires such diligence to keep the disease from spreading to the rest of the herd. 4th- CL is contagious even to humans and if it were to infect the property, the ground and surroundings would be infected with that bacteria for a long time. 5th- it is not cost effective for us to treat an animal that is incurable. The disease is difficult to manage. 

I know a lot of people have decided to try to manage the disease in their herd and have made these decisions mostly based on an emotional attachment to a goat as a pet and I can see why they would go through with all these difficulties for that reason alone as it maybe worth it for them. They will not be able to continue raising healthy sellable quality animals without testing regularly for CL and that can be costly. I am thinking that too many people are taking this disease too lightly. It isnt a good herd management option to keep CL infected animals. These goats are not living a good life with this disease and I feel it is not contributing to the over-all meat goat industry to try to manage a CL goat. But many people do believe it is worth it and that they can manage it. Maybe that is so and I am not informed enough but I sure don't have the money or time to deal with it and I do believe this CL is spreading more and more for the reason of people trying to keep it on their property.
For people with beloved pets- i do try to understand this difficulty and see why you want to treat your goat the best you can.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

CL is endemic in Australia, and I guess we dont see it as such a big deal. My experience comes from a commercial meat herd, so as long as it didnt affect our meat production (and hence profit), it wasnt something to get too worried about. 

When I worked with a CL infected herd, we didnt notice it affecting any of the animals health-wise. They were all fat, shiny and happy. No problems with weight loss. We did not separate because the entire herd was already exposed to it anyway. We let the abcesses burst on their own and simply cleaned out where necessary - there might have been one or two we had to lance because it wasnt bursting on its own and it was bothering the goat. We did vaccinate all young stock against it and that was probably the best, easiest, cheapest and most effective solution and I dont recall any abcesses on the youngstock. I actually took a few of those youngsters home into my show herd and never had abcess problems with them. The vaccine does nothing however for goats already infected. 

Occasionally we had a carcass condemned at the abbatoir because of too many internal abcesses. Just reading up, CL accounts for 50% of carcass condemnations in Australia, so its quite prevalent. If they only have one or two abcesses, the carcass is fine but if they have a lot they throw them away and we dont get paid for them. Interestingly even the goats that were condemned did not show signs of ill health.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

There is a new vaccine here in the US...but...I'm not ready to use it. I don't have any cl in my herd. And, I would worry that if one of my goats tested positive, down the road, it might be culled, even though it was just because of the vaccine.

I would separate the animals with the abscess and have them tested. If it is cl then I would test the entire herd. At least you will know who is infected and you can make a plan.

I, personally, would not want to keep a cl infected goat. I have children that play with my animals (I breed NDG's), and it's just too scary to me. 

If I had a strictly meat goat herd, I would probably vaccinate everyone. But, I understand you have to do it before the infection. 

Good luck, I hope it's a false alarm. ray:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Well evidently there is some very conflicting information and some false information perhaps that is circling around. Or perhaps even a different less serious type of CL in Australia. Any disease that is considered to be contagious to humans is cause for concern and from everything I have read on CL.. people who eat an infected goat are to be careful not to rupture the obsess while butchering and thus contaminate the meat. Also this disease gets inside the goats lungs and NO.. the goat can not be feeling too swift with all these internal abscesses infiltrating its internal organs. 

I would sure encourage people to take this disease more seriously and just because it is becoming more prevaliant doesnt mean that we should not take it casually as if it is just a 'thing' that all goats will get. We should all strive to have good clean 'meat' goat herds to the best of our ability.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

First off i want to say I am in no way picking on you packhill, and I totally get where you are coming from with being so anti cl. But the goats you have (as well as others), is different then the raising comercial goats. You get good money for your goats, as well as you should they are great goats, Im sure you get a lot of buisness for people seaking show quailty goats. I put lots of thought into how to raise goats when I started getting serious about raising goats. I dont want to play the game of meeting up with people and selling goats, I want to love my does, have kids, make profit and go on with life. Would I send a doe that I know has cl to the sale? Yes, BUT 99% of the buyers that are at the sale want something that they can eat, and the other few are not dumb they can spot a cl scar from a mile away. Would I sell to some one that is looking to add to their clean herd, no way. I respect others that want a clean herd, but is just not worth it to put down a good doe that has made me money over cl. I have one doe that I got for $110, the first year she made me $690 off her trips and the next $500, no way if she came up with cl would I put her down. Now no I would not put down a doe that had cl, but I am also doing what I can to make sure it does not spread to other goats. I do take it serious, but I also think that every animal has the right to live or when it is time for it to end go to good use like feeding someone. I wouldnt walk up and kill someone that was hiv pos. so Im not going to do that to my goats. If I did have a goat that showed signs of pain and that there is no way to help get over the pain, yes I would put her down. Would I rather keep living and get times of pain like the goats do when they get that form. or lanced, then kill myself, yes. And I dont see how that form. hurts, it was like a shot, she was mad that I did it, but that was it, she shows no signs of being in pain what so ever. I know we have kinda butted heads about this before Im just trying to show you the way others look at cl and try and help you not get so upset with the other people that are doing what they can to manage it and allow their goats to still live and bring a profit to the owners.

Now for others with mixed feelings about cl, I say put LOTS of time and think about what you are getting into and what you expect out of your goats. If I had my goats for any other reason other then comercial, meaning raising for someone to eat them, then yeah I would be right with packhill saying it is not worth it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Different breeders have different methods, I for one, will "not" have a CL infected goat on my property. I work hard to keep a clean herd and for me, it is not worth the risk. 

For those that do have CL infected herds,they need to make the buyer aware of the issue. Not hide it. So the buyer can make that decision, whether or not they want to deal with that. 
It is the decision of a breeder, to keep and manage CL positive goats and to love them no matter what. But for me, it is just not what, I care to go through and try to sell to buyers, my goal is to sell clean animals. But like I said it is my opinion. Please respect that :wink:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

AlecBGreen said:


> Hey all
> 
> I noticed a lump on the front left shoulder of a doe a few months back but like most things I waited to see what would come of it. It has slowly grown in size but she seems otherwise healthy. I later noticed a similar bump on another doe in the same spot but on the other side. I did some research on CL and it looks like its the same spot they mention. Today I went back and noticed another lump on a bucklings jaw. Now Im starting to get concerned that I got CL running in my herd.
> 
> ...


In regards to the original post from Alec.... I believe that his questions have been answered and enough views on the affects of having CL positive animals have been voiced for him to make his choices in how to treat or how to deal with the disease. Everyone has their own way to manage their animals...and those of us who strive to keep their herds healthy and free of communicable disease have ways to do so, it's up to the keeper of positive animals to be honest and forthcoming with information as far as herd health. Those who keep clean herds know to not buy from auction or from untested herds as well as herds who have revolving gates( in and out frequently) Yes...disease is out there but being responsible goat keepers is a way to keep them in check.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Thank you Liz for wrapping this up. The advice seemed one sided at first so that is why I felt a need to put an opinion on CL from a different perspective as I think different views on this disease need to be made known. I do try to respect everyone's hard work in keeping a CL goat.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree and i more then respect those who work and keep a clean heard


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

:thumbup: :hug: 

Alec...I hope you received some very helpful information.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I agree and i more then respect those who work and keep a clean heard


 :wink:


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the help yall. Here are some pics so you guys can see what Im seeing. Sorry for the graininess. It was getting late (=dark) and the goats were all antsy after being put up. Some are in heat... look at pic #2 and see my buck loving up on his lady :wink:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

The lumps are definatly visible.... would you be able to have a vet out to tap them for testing? That would really be the only way to know for sure so you aren't possibly attempting to treat them for CL should it not be.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

liz said:


> The lumps are definatly visible.... would you be able to have a vet out to tap them for testing? That would really be the only way to know for sure so you aren't possibly attempting to treat them for CL should it not be.


I had planned on letting the abscesses develop and lance them myself. If i understand correctly the pus from CL is unmistakeable. I will wait until they get large and hard and just as the hair begins to fall off, Ill lance.

Hopefully this is just 3 random abscesses. Ive been very careful in examining all animals from the herds I buy from and Ive never seen a lump.

One thing that is curious to me is that the buckling has the largest and quickest growing one. The other two have not gotten much bigger since I first noticed them a month or so ago. The Boki with one on her shoulder has seen a little growth. To those who have have firsthand experience with CL, how long does it typically take for an abscess to grow to bursting?


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

p.s. our property is overrun with VERY thorny blackberry and multiflora rose (stickerbushes) and these guys and gals are NOT shy about diving right in! Im hoping its just minor wounds.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

I would really test her if I could. I had a doe come up with a lump on her neck an she came back not having CL. I was 100% pos that she had it but after sending the pus off to be tested she came back neg.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

mmiller said:


> I would really test her if I could. I had a doe come up with a lump on her neck an she came back not having CL. I was 100% pos that she had it but after sending the pus off to be tested she came back neg.


did you lance/draw fluid from the abscess yourself or have the vet come out? how much did test cost?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If you have someone to help you restrain them, you can tap them and draw the exudate out with a syringe and a large gauged needle, place the contents in a red top blood tube and send it to WADDL. If you tap though, cover the ground they will be on with layers of newspaper and wera gloves, have paper towels available, when done wad everything up in the newspaper and burn it, place the needle wrapped well in a jar for trash.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

I did lance it myself. I wanted to see what came out of it to compare it to what I had seen from researching CL an it looked just like CL. The vet bill was around 60.00. Kinda high if you ask me but the peace of mind was worth it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry you are dealing with this, I pray, it isn't CL :hug: ray:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It sure looks like cl but find it odd she has two at the same time


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

toth boer goats said:


> I am sorry you are dealing with this, I pray, it isn't CL :hug: ray:


thanks, me too. From a meat production standpoint, if CL was confined to SubQ lymph abscesses it wouldnt be a huge deal, but because it can move to the innards and lead to carcass condemnation its got my full attention. Prayers are greatly appreciated. The prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Jessica84 said:


> It sure looks like cl but find it odd she has two at the same time


The 1st and 2nd pictures are two different does. Both are 50/50 Kiko/Boers females. Both are in tip top health other than these dang abscesses. Im not 100% sure its CL but if it is Im really going to have to think long and hard about how to handle this. Im torn between management and culling. I hate to give up two great does but if I think that culling them and the buckling now would eliminate it from the herd I would do it. They are great animals and produce wonderful kids.

That brings me to another question: what do yall think are the odds that IF it is CL and IF I cull these three now, what are the odds of CL popping back up? There has never been a broken abscess on the property. The guy I got the two does from has a clean herd as far as I can tell. He and I are in regular contact and he has never mentioned CL. This leads me to believe it was introduced by dirty boots or a wandering animal. Ugh... so much to consider.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

ray: I'll be praying for you. How long have you had the goats? And, you got all three of these from 1 breeder? I'd sure get in touch with him and ask him if he's noticed this before in his herd. 

I've not been too worried about someone "tracking" it in. But, I do notice when the vet is here, she washes her boots in soapy, bleachy, water. I'll have to be more cautious in the future.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If it is cl, and you end up culling the only way to tell for sure about the rest is blood test. A goat can be cl pos. and never have a abscess, and some have it for years then one day one might pop up, all depends on the animal and how well they can keep it under control.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> thanks, me too


 ray: ray:


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

i tried extracting fluid from one of the abscesses today and nothing came out. I could hear a sucking as the needle tried to draw stuff out but nothing went into the syringe.  Next step is to lance and send it off to WADDL.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Jessica84 said:


> If it is cl, and you end up culling the only way to tell for sure about the rest is blood test. A goat can be cl pos. and never have a abscess, and some have it for years then one day one might pop up, all depends on the animal and how well they can keep it under control.


well that is better news. these animals are super healthy kiko & boer/kiko crosses. they are unfazed by parasites and always fat & shiny. i think they are pretty healthy so maybe if they DO have CL they will be able to fight it off and keep it 'locked up' so to speak, out of their organs.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

AlecBGreen said:


> Jessica84 said:
> 
> 
> > If it is cl, and you end up culling the only way to tell for sure about the rest is blood test. A goat can be cl pos. and never have a abscess, and some have it for years then one day one might pop up, all depends on the animal and how well they can keep it under control.
> ...


Unfortunately they won't be able to keep it from contaminating the soil ... and possibly spreading to their kids.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

i talked to a goatherd buddy and he suggested trying to draw one more time with a much thicker gauge needle (12). I dont know what I used, just grabbed the first one I could find... it was probably an 18.

There is a USDA lab near me that he says will do CL testing. Im going to call them in the morning and see if I can get a sample for them and drop it off.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

good news! http://www.goatworld.com/articles/cl/cl3.shtml (emphasis mine)

CL (caseous lymphadenitis) is a bacteria that is very good at protecting itself from attack from antibodies. The goats body, when realizing this devious bacteria was doing a good job battling its antibody defense, walls the bacteria off into an abscess. This way the bacteria won't be able to invade the rest of the goats body. Sometimes some of the bacteria slip into the lymph system before the original abscess can form, then the body forms another abscess around those stray bacteria to keep it out of the body.

The goats body is generally pretty good at abscessing all of the bacteria at the lymphatic point of entry. *Thus, as most goat owners who treat CL abscesses find, a doe will only have one abscess. Once removed/treated it is gone* (though the doe will still have the antibodies, after all she's been 'vaccinated' by the CL assault). Sometimes the goats defense system will miss a few and will have to form a second or third abscess to catch them all. *With human intervention in the form of abscess removal or treatment, the animal can be 'cured'. *

so.... if Im reading this right, it can be effectively eliminated. I dont mean to say no goat will ever get it again, but if i catch the abscesses before they rupture, I am greatly improving the chances that the goat can rid itself of the bacterium and prevent a worse (re)infection.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

CL does not have a cure ... it can be successfully managed, but not cured, and I believe they are still infectious to goats and sometimes to humans.

But that's good news about the only one abscess!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Its the puss from the cl that will infect other goats. If you open that up KEEP her AWAY from the others. Thats why i got the form. To keep the others that might not have it from getting it. If it is cl its almost impossible to get any puss tillthe hair falls off. You can try the larger guage but my guess is its cl and your not gonna get anything out. T hats why they say before injecting the form. To use a empty syringe to try and pull fluid out no fluid go ahead.


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

Another problem is you can't see if they have internal abscesses until you butcher them. So if they do develop any internally such as in the lungs, coughing can spread it on your property. I would test, if these 3 come up positive and you got them from a different place than your others I would cull now. If the 3 from one person all come up positive I am pretty sure that person has it in his herd although maybe he doesn't realize it...


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

the 2 does Ive had for almost 14 months and have shown no symptoms til 2-3 months ago. I bought them from a guy I trust who has never had CL and still doesnt. The buckling was born on the farm; he is ~7 months old.

I am really wracking my brain to figure out (if it is CL) where it came from.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Could have been carried in on your shoes...by flies...if there were goats previously on your property... one or some of the goats you have may be infected from their previous home and are spreading it to your herd....there's just no telling where it may have come from. If you are going to purchase goats from a "clean, tested" herd...make sure to get the papers showing the goats actually tested clean...there are breeders out there who will say oh yeah...our herd is tested negative for the diseases...but really they've never been tested. I think that happens more then people realize. So you have to be careful and get the test results from the breeders if you plan on running a clean herd...never take their word for it...even if you trust them or they're a reputable breeder. :thumb:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Kw is right about paper work, and even then if a clean herd is what you want then you will also want to test them when you get them as well. Its sad really but trust no one. A lady I know has always purchased goat from so called 'clean herd', she has a heart of gold and trusts everyone, sold a goat and the buyer tested her and she has cl. It is really sad since she has always paid high dollar for her goats to end up with something that she was trying not to have.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

UPDATE -- i cant find any needles larger than 16ga to draw out a sample but its a moot point bc the buckling's abscess (side of jaw, where neck & head meet) is getting big fast and hair has started to shed. Me and my buddy are going to quarantine the 3 and lance them tomorrow. The USDA has a testing facility near me that will test for CL but as i understand it the exudate from CL looks like nothing else so I think we'll have our answer as soon as we cut them open. Ive got a sinking feeling but Ill just have to wait and see. On that note, Isaiah 12:2 has been in my thoughts frequently: "I will trust and not be afraid." If its CL, ill just have to keep on as best I can. 

Thanks for all your support, Ill let you know how it goes.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

:hug:


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

The test results came back today: CL is *NEGATIVE*! Woohoo!!!  The lab tech says both abscesses tested positive for Staph. aureus. So one of two things happened: the goats truly dont have CL, orrrrrrr they have CL and I contaminated the samples. I rubbed them down with alcohol and iodine and used separate, sterilized razors to get the samples but Im still not 100% it isnt CL. It just seems odd to me that 3 animals would get abscesses in a the same time span and in CL-typical locations...

I will quarantine the two lanced goats for a week then turn them back with the herd. When the 3rd animal's abscess is ready to pop I will test again. Keep you fingers crossed GoatSpotters!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats, that is wonderful to hear. :leap:


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Very good news!!!!!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I hope they're all clear!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

it would still pop positive if CL - so you are clear  

and 16 is WAY to big to draw - I never use anything bigger than a 20g - 18 I haven't but could on the larger breed goats - but 16 - thats a bigum'


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

YAY!!!!
:clap:

I'm so happy that they came back clear!!


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

kelebek said:


> it would still pop positive if CL - so you are clear
> 
> and 16 is WAY to big to draw - I never use anything bigger than a 20g - 18 I haven't but could on the larger breed goats - but 16 - thats a bigum'


the reason i wanted to use a 16 was b/c i wanted to try and draw a sample with a needle w/o lancing. I stuck the abscess with an 18 or 20 (dont know, forgot to look) and nothing came out. I heard CL makes a real thick "goo" so I thought I might be able to draw some out with a larger gauge needle. In the end I just lanced it.

As for the CL, the lab tech says that CL bacteria are "little guys" (her words) and Staph aureus are "big guys" and if the sample was contaminated, the staph would have won out on the petri dish and CL might not show up. Ill try again with the last abscess when its big enough to lance. Im really hoping its just a plain old staph infection.

Thanks for all the good wishes yall! If it is staph, any recommendations on treatment?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Let me ask you this - when you lanced it - was there ANY smell to the exudus at all? What did it look like? Thick, chunky, yellow, clear, milky, green - details please  Sorry - don't have time to read through all the pages .... but I know ALOT about CL - researched, have helped farms with it


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

kelebek said:


> Let me ask you this - when you lanced it - was there ANY smell to the exudus at all? What did it look like? Thick, chunky, yellow, clear, milky, green - details please  Sorry - don't have time to read through all the pages .... but I know ALOT about CL - researched, have helped farms with it


I didnt sniff it. CL is odorless right? The color was off-white, maybe the slightest hint of yellow. The consistency was smooth and creamy like thin toothpaste.

There is one more abscess in the herd and I will lance it when it gets big enough. Ill do a sniff test and let you know. If I can get an extra pair of hands Ill get pictures too.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

kelebek said:


> Let me ask you this - when you lanced it - was there ANY smell to the exudus at all? What did it look like? Thick, chunky, yellow, clear, milky, green - details please  Sorry - don't have time to read through all the pages .... but I know ALOT about CL - researched, have helped farms with it


Share what you know please.

I had a goat with an abscess on it's jaw, under the ear, and I just knew it was CL. It got bigger, hair separated, I drew out a thick yellow odorless pus. Sent it in and it was not cl.

So I cut it open and there was a foreign body (plastic) in it. Still looks like a CL scab.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Alec - from what you are describing it does sound like an abcess (staph) - it will have a nasty smell to it also.

GT - Typically they will not have an odor when it is a FB or Staph abcess - the exodus will be more creamy. Now I HAVE seen CL drawn from an abcess that was still in the liquid state and it was clear - but then had this "fluid" that was a little thicker floating around in it once the syringe was allowed to sit for a bit. But typically, when the abcess is ready to rupture the exodus will be very dry and cottage cheesy. but NEVER EVER a smell if CL. I have never even seen one that is both CL and Staph. If you are still concerned that it is CL, even though they ruled it out, you can always draw blood for titers and see if the animal has ever been exposed to CL. If that comes back negative also - you know for a fact it wasn't and are good to go  Think through WADDL it is 10.00 for the test for out of state residents, and then a 10.00 accession fee per case (so you send in 10 samples at one time - you only pay one accession fee).


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh.. I can tell you that a puss filled abcess that is not CL.. It smelled like a rotten dead smell. Oh.. that smell made me gag so badly. Our CL test came back negative from that but we also could smell the puss. I have a keen sense of smell tho.. and it still turns my stomach .. I was gagging so badly --even thinking about the smell- it makes me sick.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

YEPPERS - a regular abcess will smell  *99% of the time*


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Allison definately knows her stuff when it comes to CL.... I seem to recall an "obsession" with getting any and all accurate info on the disease a while back


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

kelebek said:


> YEPPERS - a regular abcess will smell  *99% of the time*


OK so when I lanced the abscesses, I didnt smell anything. Now I didnt actually put my NOSE up to anything, but there was no overwhelming smell coming out that I could tell. Is that a sign that it might be CL?


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## Goober (Aug 21, 2009)

Just a quick side note on the smell - some people don't smell certain things as well as others. Personally, I would not take a lack of smell to mean CL because I know that there are things I just don't smell or the smell doesn't bother me. For instance, thrush in a horse's hoof, I can NOT smell it. Most nasty dog ears don't bother me, although I can smell them close up. (There was that one dog, though. But that one could be smelled from another room, it was that bad.) Air fresheners? Can't stand them, they are way to sickeningly sweet. So, don't get too worried that you didn't smell it, just wait and test the last one.


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## RandomGoats (Sep 14, 2012)

Staph infections do tend to smell... I think like hoof rott, but that's just me. But I have seen abscesses that didn't smell and were clear for CL, so I wouldn't get too worried yet.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a very keen sense of smell when others can not smell something.. I usually can. So if you cant smell it without getting really close to it-don't worry too much, but still it would smell if it were an infected abscess. One time I came home to a foreign smell in my house.. someone had been inside.. I knew it.. the door had been left open.. someone got in and left a lingering 'cigarrette clothing' smell and probably had resently left. Scary! But I knew someone had come and gone just then. So ... I can detect a bad infection on the goat.. and it truly made me gag and heave.. So strong and it was just a little sticker lump.


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