# I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat



## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat. I have boer goats and all i have had are problems. foot problems, poor mothering problems. I cant get the herd to work in my intensive rotation grazing program and because of that i have worm problems.

I have Lamancha goats and they have none of the problems that the Boers have.

Here are the things i am looking for.
Good mothering instinct. 
Good kid vitality
Great milking does
Minimal foot care required.
I kid in wile in the grazing rotation so i need quick bonding of the doe and kid.

Is there a meat goat will work better for me??

or should i drop goats and focus on my sheep.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

IMO it’s not the breed. It’s the poor quality breeders that keep anything and everything alive and in their program because they’re expensive, pretty, or too emotionally connected. Basically the same thing that happens with any purebred animal. You have to find breeders that hard culls problem animals and bad genetics. 

We run majority fullblood boers, and we do not encounter many issues at all. They’re great mothers, have great udders, many just kid outside on their own unassisted, growth rates are great, they maybe get dewormed once a year if needed, get hooves trimmed once every 3-4 months (6 months isn’t a rarity), etc. 

There’s bad in every breed. Savannas are said to be hardy, and I’ve personally owned many savannas since around 2016. Many went to market because I couldn’t deal with the bad hooves, inferior conformation, poor growth rates, and mite issues. They aren’t a bad breed by any means. I believe I had genetics that were not good enough.

Now those 50/50 boer/savanna crosses? Absolutely bombproof in my experience lol.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

I am woth CLA. People just want the quick buck. A lot of people now are becoming backyard goat people that just do not care and they do not cull. Cause how could you mean people cull that cute lil thing right? Iow if the show rings have made boers less hardy. Show people have to fuss over and primp them so much. So does this make them less hardy because they do not have to be that way? In our area it is hard to find dairy 4h because it is all about the meat market.

I feel the same way with dairy bucks! Those jewels do not need be left intact unless they are a stellar animal. But a dime a dozen here.. buck fs because of color or eye color. Drives me nuts.

Anyhoo... ask the hard questions to breeders you are talking to. If they do nt answer move along. If they do not answer correctly for your program move along. You will find the right fit it just may take time. Same as when you are looking for any livestock really. Some care options just do not work well for some.

We have a friend that does texmasters... he loves them for their size and for their hardiness. Not a plug but if you want to talk to him i have his number... and he is looking to go more dairy in his herd. But i do know that he does not fuss with his goats much at all.

Kiko is another supposedly very hardy breed as well.

I too think that jessica @AndersonRanch does not fuss with hers, and @Moers kiko boars, @HoosierShadow @toth boer goats .... i think all of these people on here have similar views/plans with their herds. Transport to you if people are too far away. .


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## JML Farms (Jan 1, 2021)

We’ve focused on eliminating any of our boers that are more susceptible to parasites and only keeping the ones that aren’t needing wormed constantly. Genetics plays a big role in your ability to successfully raise boers in some parts of the country. That being said I would recommend kiko and Spanish goats or a boer/kiko cross. Kikos are good mothers and don’t have the parasite problems that boers do. The Spanish are a bit smaller but much more tolerant of parasites too.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

You live in western Montana and Boers are a South African breed. My neighbor raised Boers for years here in the mountains and always had problems with them. He did better when his herd had more Spanish Meat Goats than Boers. You should probably think about concentrating on cold climate breeds like the Spanish or Kiko. My neighbor liked Boers because they fetched more money at the sale barn, but that's only because they are currently fashionable. He lost tons of kids every year and I'm sure he would have made up for the drop in price/lb. on a different meat breed if he'd been able to keep more of his kids alive. He eventually got out of goats because he could never make it profitable (and he had problems keeping them fenced). But yeah, I think climate is something you need to consider. Boers do a lot better down south from what I hear.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Boers are a dime a dozen down here in Texas, everybody’s got them but when I’m at the vet, there’s always a line up of them, and they’re usually in bad shape. The Kikos seem to be the most hardy but are smaller and I see them Far, far less frequently, and usually for an injury not worms or hoof problems. 
I’m in dairy, so I’m no expert just my observations.


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## AlabamaGirl (Jun 18, 2020)

fivemoremiles said:


> I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat. I have boer goats and all i have had are problems. foot problems, poor mothering problems. I cant get the herd to work in my intensive rotation grazing program and because of that i have worm problems.
> 
> I have Lamancha goats and they have none of the problems that the Boers have.
> 
> ...


I heard a few years ago, boers were plagued with these problems, but if you look at Kiko, Savanna and Spanish goats, many breeders cull heavily for _all _the problems you listed, and select for the traits you want, especially ADG. This isn't to say there aren't any boer owners who do the same, I think you just have to search a little more to find the.


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## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

CountryLineAcres is absolutely spot on! I was in your shoes and not overly thrilled with most of my boers when I first started, same issues you are having. I started culling heavy, only saving kids out of lines that I did like and became SUPER picky about who I bought from and I’m pretty happy with my herd now. 
I think what happened was people were so over the moon when boers came over, as CountryLineAcres said they focused more on actually expanding the breed then keeping the better lines going, the lines that made the boers what they are supposed to be. I know a lot of people have better luck with savanna’s then boers and they came from Africa too. 
I have tried Spanish and kikos and I really wasn’t thrilled with them. The kikos really were not much better then the boers other then probably a little better with their hooves. Spanish were better then the kikos all around but they were so nuts and hard to handle I really did not enjoy them at all.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi..ive had Spanish..they are small framed , no feet problems..but wild & crazy. They have a tendancy to hurt themselves getting away. Such as deep cuts, torn ears; cut nose. 
I still have Kiko x boer does. 3 of them. Ive sold several. But these 3 are basically feed , and pet. I trim their feet after delivery...once a year. I usually worm them once a year. Great moms...great udders, easy going..least work than all others. 
I just purchased 3 Savannah x boer. Havent had them long, about 5.months. ive given them 1 worming, 1 copper bolus; and CDT shot. Thats it. The Doe with the 2 doelings ( not hers) is protective of the 2 doelings. They were from the same herd..so she took over as protector! Very positive in my opinion. They are wide and growing as well as boers. But again Ive not had them long
Full blood boers...mine are great moms. Good udders & teat structure & only 2. Wide and healthy..but they require copper , selenium, and worming more than my others breeds. They are gentle and easy to work with. 
My Tennessee meat goat is larger than kikoxboer..she hasnt delivered yet..so I dont know her mother abilities. She has good udder & 2 teat structure. No maintenence really. She has calmed down alot since she came here. Ive owned her 7 months. She is gentle with all goats smaller than her..and tolerates all the kidds very well. She is gentle for her size. Easy keeper. Very muscled..nice length, and carries kidds well. No complaints on Apple Dapple. 
My.myotonics are the med to small. They are very muscular. Easy keepers and does usually birth twins. They are smaller and slower growing. But produce more meat to bone ratio . Great moms..they practically deliver as they walk. But only real drawback..do.not breed before 1 year old. Their death rate jumps. Since they mature slowly, they cant reproduce at a younger age. But they dont.jump, my buck IS NOT AGGRESSIVE at all. He would just freeze up & fall down .lol lol But they are easy keepers and dont waste hay like other breeds. You can get them in larger size. Which to me for a meat producer..would be a good option.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I had Kiko Nubian crosses, loved them- but couldn't send my sweet babies to the meat market (dumb old me), So I got into dairy many years ago. I kept my kiko boys until they died of old age. (Cabbage, Rudabega and Pinto Bean- RIP old boys). Those guys got hay- and pasture- never a sick day, never had to worm and lived to a ripe old age. 

I bet today's Boers look nothing like the original imports! I've seen scrawny "boer" kids for sale for huge prices- they are like Angus- say the word and everyone pays the big bucks!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Have you thought about putting your healthiest Boer buck over some of your Lamanchas? The mothers would teach proper browsing skills. 
Then you could breed back up to a good commercial. Meat buyers here love this cross and they sell for more than purebreds.


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## Nicole2020 (Jan 14, 2021)

I love my myotonic (fainting) goats. Very hardy, low parasites, easy on fences, great moms and easy births (I just watched 3 of the kids come out breech without me intervening). They are sweet and gentle, meat is supposed to be good, but, I have never had it. I eat our sheep, but can’t bring myself to eat my goats. Bucks are sweet, too. Downside, they are slow growers! 

I just love this breed and I am not the type to keep an animal that doesn’t add value to the farm.


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## AlabamaGirl (Jun 18, 2020)

Nicole2020 said:


> I love my myotonic (fainting) goats. Very hardy, low parasites, easy on fences, great moms and easy births (I just watched 3 of the kids come out breech without me intervening). They are sweet and gentle, meat is supposed to be good, but, I have never had it. I eat our sheep, but can't bring myself to eat my goats. Bucks are sweet, too. Downside, they are slow growers!
> 
> I just love this breed and I am not the type to keep an animal that doesn't add value to the farm.


I've seen some extremely muscular myotonics, especially on Facebook, apparently they have the highest meat yield of all breeds.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I have had to cull SO hard to get my herd productive for my climate and my style of management. And I honestly can't stand Boer shopping any more because nobody in my area practices culling for traits like that. Because honestly, people will pay $600+++ for any Boer. Most buyers don't even ask the weaning weight before purchasing. Not many herds in my area have a primary goal of meat production.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

thanks for all your help.
12 years ago when i first got in to goats. my Lamacha does had 12 kids they lost 7 of them. by the third generation they were not losing a single kid. mothering instinct and kid vitality improved that much, by letting mother nature cull for me.
this year was the first year i kidded my Boers. out of 12 does i have 7 kids make it. the good thing is four are does that look very good.
been thinking i should stay on the course i have set and see if i can improve my herd with time. it is hard to let mother nature cull for me.
But i feel that the end product is worth it.
so here is my plan it is brutal.
treat the Boers just like i do my sheep Put them in the bonding pen for 12 to 48 hours depending on the number of kids the doe had. let the doe out of the bonding pen but stay semi isolated for 4 days then move them in with the pairs band.
i have no time for heroic kid saving so they are on there own


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## The Goat Whisperer (Jul 31, 2011)

fivemoremiles said:


> I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat. I have boer goats and all i have had are problems. foot problems, poor mothering problems. I cant get the herd to work in my intensive rotation grazing program and because of that i have worm problems.
> 
> I have Lamancha goats and they have none of the problems that the Boers have.
> 
> ...





fivemoremiles said:


> I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat. I have boer goats and all i have had are problems. foot problems, poor mothering problems. I cant get the herd to work in my intensive rotation grazing program and because of that i have worm problems.
> 
> I have Lamancha goats and they have none of the problems that the Boers have.
> 
> ...


The Kiko goats are knowen to be one of the best mothers they dont need us there at all. mine are 250 # at 3 years old and are very melow I use my Kiko's s as pack goats. I dont like to mix breads you dont know what you will get the good or all the bad trates.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

fivemoremiles said:


> so here is my plan it is brutal.
> treat the Boers just like i do my sheep Put them in the bonding pen for 12 to 48 hours depending on the number of kids the doe had. let the doe out of the bonding pen but stay semi isolated for 4 days then move them in with the pairs band.
> i have no time for heroic kid saving so they are on there own


I think that's a good plan, and I don't think it's brutal at all. If they can't manage that then I agree they don't belong in your program.

We don't make use of our bonding pens often. Our boer does kid in the barn and paddock with all the other mothers no matter age or experience. Worst issues we've had were does being too good of mothers and wanting to adopt every baby born lol. We've even had does nurse kids that weren't theirs on occasion. We have had some overly protective does, however, but the kids just learn to use their creep area to escape the adults.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

fivemoremiles said:


> I think i have the wrong breed of meat goat. I have boer goats and all i have had are problems. foot problems, poor mothering problems. I cant get the herd to work in my intensive rotation grazing program and because of that i have worm problems.
> 
> I have Lamancha goats and they have none of the problems that the Boers have.
> 
> ...



Maybe you should look in to Kikos ive heard they are great mamas & have very little problems & are great meat goats! Oh and spanish goats!


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## Layne Stevenson (Feb 23, 2021)

I've had Boers in Saskatchewan for quite a few years now and where I live is sometimes in the top 10 coldest places on earth(-40 C) and I've had no trouble with them compared to other breeds, smaller ones in my opinion are harder to keep alive. I found in the cold if you want a goat to most likely have babies in the day you should feed and grain them at night, it works for cows, and from my experience has worked with goats. The sole most important thing is that they are dry, they will freeze to death if you don't get them completely dried off, I bring mine into the house for an hour or so after they have had colostrum. That will get their body temp up and ensure that they get dried off. Heat lamps are your best friend and I have made homemade sweaters for ones born on super cold nights. It's heartless to say but you will see death and loss it's just a part of raising animals especially in the cold, I haven't found a breed strong enough for kids to live in the winter without human intervention or an absolutely incredible mom. The same goes for cattle. Try to plan to kid for when spring hits.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I agree with everyone else. People don't cull for these super important traits. We don't do meat goats, we do dairy, but culling hard is essential to any herd. There are so many more vital traits than just confirmation and color. Over the years we have culled to the best that fit our goals. We have seen what we want and we don't settle for anything less. Now we have a great group of girls that fit and make life easier because we don't have to deal with all these issues.

I think your plan is perfect. My husband has a similar mentality, the ones that survive and require no/minimal intervention, are who we want. Survival of the fittest. 

Was it Kikos that when the breed was started, the herd owner put a certain number out to the pasture, they had to survive on the pasture, didn't intervene for worming or anything. Came back and chose a certain (smaller) number of those. Repeated, came back after another short time and from those, he built the herd as they were the strongest, browsed well and survived off it, and were parasite resistant. That's a very slimmed-down version of the story but it makes a lot of sense.


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## Boers4ever (Jun 28, 2020)

Jubillee said:


> Was it Kikos that when the breed was started, the herd owner put a certain number out to the pasture, they had to survive on the pasture, didn't intervene for worming or anything. Came back and chose a certain (smaller) number of those. Repeated, came back after another short time and from those, he built the herd as they were the strongest, browsed well and survived off it, and were parasite resistant. That's a very slimmed-down version of the story but it makes a lot of sense.


This is something that I really want to experiment with when I get my own pastures. I want to get my goats as tough and parasite resistant as possible, and also where they won’t rely on feed as much as they do now to stay healthy. Putting them out there like that and letting nature show who the weak ones are definitely makes a lot of sense.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Its definetly what we have been working towards. Last year we had them on pasture a lot. This year hooing to have it available starting in March when its coming back and see how well we can get them to milk on mostly pasture and grass hay with minimal alfalfa involved. We shall see. But boy did they do better health wise having pasture. Ours is 90% brush though vs grass.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Since i first posted this i have been given a suggestion from a local boar breeder. The said to increace the selenium i was putting in there mineral. that cleared up my foot problems 
i have a Lamacha buck that climbs fences and the boar Lamcha cross have great kid vitality 
I am getting ready to retire so i will not keep any replacements and fade my goat herd in to extinction.

The drought is doing in my sheep herd I lambed out 325 ewes last spring. this winter i am feeding 225 and i have a buyer that wants to buy another 125 ewes from me.the buyer would take all of the sheep but i want to stay in sheep


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I retired last year from my practice
So I understand. Im staying in goats. The prices have gotten better, but like everything else, so has feed, hay, gas, diesel and medications. But for my sanity. Im keeping my goats. 
I wish you the best in your endeavor. I do enjoy reading your stories and the wonderful things you do for your wife. Thankyou for shareing all that with us.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't blame you for retiring. Good luck!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Retiring is another chapter, bless you. 

I know goats can be hard work and retiring gives us that time to rest.


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