# Severe Tail Biting



## gsbswf (Apr 5, 2009)

So Romeo, being the lowest goat in the Rough Riders, has been getting his tail bitten rather often. It seems like Wicket, the middle goat, is the main culprit. It is getting to the point where it is no longer a nip, but an extended chomp. I noticed some blood in the pen the other day, and eventually discovered it came from his tail that was covered in blood. A few days ago, Amy swore she heard a crunch when Wicket bit Romeo's tail. Last night, after a long exhausting hike, it seemed like they all went in to the shade of their shelter. Normally the two bigger boys don't let Romeo in there, which usually doesn't bother him, but it seemed like they were all in there. When I was bringing them their oats in the evening, I noticed little spots on Teddy, that I soon realized where blood spatter. Romeo's tail was even more covered in blood than the last time, and it was splattered and rubbed all over the other two from being in the shelter together. I am at a loss for what to do. I mean, I always figure that as they get older (a little over 2 now) they will mellow out and the fighting will be more of a reminder than a challenge to an epic battle. This tail thing is too much, though. I mean, it can't heal and for all we know it has been broken. 

Option one was to cover it in un-petroleum jelly until it had a thick protective layer to lock out moisture to his skin/cut and then cover it in sriracha hot sauce. I am worried that this will get on his own face or the face of the others when they aren't biting him.

Option two would be the same covering technique but with goat berry tea. I don't think that would coat very well, even if it was really thick, and I don't know if goat berry tea prevents biting, I just know it prevents bandage removal and eating.

Option three would be too wrap the tail and then cover it in goat berry tea. I think it would be very difficult to get a wrap to stay on his tail, and I think it would drive him nuts. I am also not so sure that it would help it heal. I would think cutting off air flow and all that, even after thoroughly cleaning it, would cause more harm and possibly infection.

Please help, any suggestions would be great. I don't know how much longer we have before he becomes a tailless goat.

Thanks,

Gregg


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Maybe you could get a light blanket for Romeo and sew a tail cover on it. I know it's summer and too hot for blankets, but if you just used a light nylon sheet it shouldn't be too bad, and you could sew a leather piece over the tail area to shield it while it heals. Even better, you could use a piece of plastic carpet protector with the spikes on the bottom. Point the spikey side out so Wicket gets a nasty poke in the nose when he tries to bite. I know people who have worn these on their sleeves around stallions who bite... it only takes a couple of tries before the horses decide that people are closely related to porcupines. Once healed, I suppose you could try the pepper sauce on the tail hair so long as you make completely sure it can't get onto the sensitive areas underneath.


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## duffontap (Apr 8, 2010)

That tail biting sounds terrible. Can you separate them? If it were me, I would at least keep them separate until the tail had a chance to heal before thinking about a long-term solution. JD


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## duffontap (Apr 8, 2010)

Just when you need expert advice, they're all out goat packing!


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## IceDog (Aug 1, 2010)

If he were my goat I'd put tea tree oil - TTO (Melaleuca Oil) on his tail. TTO will help it heal (I make a salve with TTO I use or I use it full strength on all wounds) and it tastes NASTY, so may be a deterrent to the biting!

I use Melaleuca Brand TTO but you can get it at any Health Food Store. Even Wal-Mart carries it these days. Put it on full strength or if you'd like I can send you the recipe to make a salve with Tea Tree Oil and petroleum jelly.

Good Luck!


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Sounds like you have five options.
1) Ignore it and hope the goat keeps his tail. (Not a good option)
2) Seperate the goats. Either in different pens or a larger pen with room to stay out of each other way.
3) Cover the tail with a protective material. (I actually like the spikey material suggestion)
4) Cover the tail with something nasty tasting.
5) Break the other goat from biting his tail.

The easiest solutions would be to seperate the goats or to apply something nasty tasting to the tail, as has already been suggested. It is simple and it might work but what if it doesn't? What if this is now a habit with this goat and he starts biting other goats tails when they are in his way?

Lets think it through for a moment. As you said, the goat is the victim of dominant behavior from another goat. I have tried numerous things to try and deal with overly agressive behavior that was aimed toward smaller goats just introduced to the herd. I have spent countless hours trying to supervise and correct with squirt bottles and water hoses but it only works when you are standing there. The minute you are out of the shed they start up again. In the end the only thing that I found that worked was a shock collar on the offending goat. I hid out of sight and when it went after the smaller goat I shocked it. I let the goat determine the level of intensity by seeing how quick it was to repeat the act. If it did it soon after, I upped the intensity. Over a weekend the dominant goat began to give the smaller goat a wide berth. With me out of sight the dominate goat associated the shocks with touching the smaller goat and he tried to avoid contact after that. Pretty much the same principle as an electric fence. I did notice some squirmishes a couple months later and a quick refresher put an end to it. After the summer was over they had it all worked out and everything was fine.


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## duffontap (Apr 8, 2010)

If you go with Rex's option, there are a bunch of inexpensive 2-dog shock collar systems on Amazon (I'm sorry if I'm not supposed to reference a business like Amazon--I figured it was ok considering that most pack goat business don't sell shock collars) that would allow you to control both dominant goats with one remote. I haven't used any of them so I can't comment on quality (of course you get what you pay for), but you might get away with a very inexpensive one if you only have to use it for a couple days, once in a long while. Just a thought.


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## IceDog (Aug 1, 2010)

I used a remote control shock collar on one of my angoras that kept butting my grandkids many years ago. Seemed to work as I recall.

One thing (with dogs anyhow) is you don't want to make them collar smart. So put on the collar and don't use it right away. You don't want them to realize they only get the correction when the collar is on.

Typically (with dogs anyhow lol) a remote training collar works better to stop a newly acquired undesirable behavior than an long standing problem behavior. So if you want to try it do it soon before it becomes an ingrained behavior.

I've used Innotek collars and they've worked well for me. Typically the price is higher the greater distance the remote works at. Depending on how close your goats are to where you can watch them you may be able to get away with a fairly short distance remote.

I also meant to add earlier, that in addition to Tea Tree Oil, the Regular Arrid Extra Dry Spray Deodorant will likely stop him from biting the tail too! OMG that stuff smells awful, must taste awful too!  I don't know how safe it would be to use while he still has a wound though. My whole house stinks for hours after I spray it on something. The house stinks even when I spray it outside in the barn. I can't believe I spayed it on my armpits after gym class when I was a kid! I always keep a can on hand, but not for me!

Good Luck!


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

What about a muzzle for the offending goat? Short term intermittent use until you got the shock collar. I have one goat who pulls at my clothes when I'm working in the barn. It worked well stop this situation.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

I tried a shock collar on a Malmute-Shepherd mix, 130 pounds. He liked it. He'd stand on the buried wire so that the collar would shock him, and just grin at me. I started to get jealous of the enjoyment he got from it and thought I ought to try it myself.

His neck was bigger than mine so there was no problem getting the collar on. I am sure there is much more to the story, but I don't remember a thing.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

The muzzle is a good idea but you can't leave it on all the time. I'd try mixing petroleum jelly with some smashed up goat poo, heavy on the goat poo. THen put it right on the tail itself. Shock collars work when you are there but you have to be really sneaky to get the scenario that Rex mentioned to work.

Before you get too upset with the offending goat, how dumb does the other one have to be to stand there when someone is trying to bite him? This is a mutual problem. :lol:


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

I keep thinking..."bob-tail goats". :lol:


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## gsbswf (Apr 5, 2009)

Don't worry Carolyn, I won't tell Amy you called Romeo dumb. They are all biting each other on the tail, it has become a thing. Romeo does it more to keep the other goats away from "his" people, and they do it to get each other to move on the trail or in the pasture. If Tucker (the dog) gets close enough to Romeo, he gets his tail bitten. It just seems like when Wicket does it to Romeo he really chomps. I was thinking the same thing about the shock collar. They only get collars when we take them out of the pen, so he would always know that something was up when he got a collar in the pen and then magically started getting shocked. I am also due for a pen expansion this summer, and if the snow ever melts out of the mountains, we can get them tired out more often. I think I will go with the poo for now, to see if it helps until the pen is expanded, and then if it still doesn't stop, Wickets hair will be standing on end. 

Thanks everyone,

Gregg

(P.S. If I was better with photo editing software, I would create a picture of the image Amy and I concocted of Medieval Romeo in his hooded cloak with a spiky tail and some large weapon like a flail)


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