# Hay... Educate me!



## BTRT1 (Jun 12, 2014)

So in all my planning I forgot about hay!
Well, I knew they would eat it but I didn't account for storage!

I have a Pygmy doe with 3 week old buckling twins (will be banded) and hope to add another young Pygmy doe before winter. No one will be milking, nursing etc over winter.

We live in Northern Ontario so the winter will be long with heavy snow cover.
And locally it is all grass hay that I can find.

So.
How many bales should I anticipate for 4 Pygmies (3 are/will be 20" tall so on the big side)?

Options?
-- we have a heavy duty shelter (no sides, just canopy) that would probably cover my hay ... But how to keep dry in winter weather?

-- I may be able to get something quick and dirty built, but a better goat shed comes first and help is scarce! 

What do you suggest?

Alternately... If I should feed alfalfa I would need to get pelleted-- the stuff you soak. But I suppose I could buy that year round and storage wouldn't be an issue but expense? Appropriate to feed?

Honestly, I am just a little befuddled about this!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

No, you cannot feed only alfalfa pellets in lieu of hay because goats need long stemmed forage/hay to keep their rumens working properly. You can substitute alfalfa pellets for up 1/2 of the hay ration, though. If all you can get locally is grass hay, I would go with that and use alfalfa pellets to replace part of it. I cannot give you exact numbers because I don't know the first thing about a pygmy or ND goat, but I can tell you what I do when we are running out of hay. I raise standard sized goats who receive 5 lbs of hay per goat per day. If we start getting short on hay, I feed them 3 lbs of hay, 2 lbs of alfalfa pellets, and they do beautifully on it! The grass hay will also help keep them warmer in the winter months because it is harder to digest, and digestion is what keeps animals warm.

As far as how much you will need goes - count the days from your first hard freeze until about a month after the spring thaw. Multiply that number by however much you feed your goats a day, then by the number of goats you own. For example - our first hard freeze usually happens by the middle of September, and spring thaw is usually around the middle of May. That is 8 months X 30 days = 240 days. 240 X 5 = 1200 lbs X 82 does = 98,400 lbs / 2000 lbs per ton = 49.2 tons of hay. Round up to 50 and that is what I need to get through a typical winter. If you're planning on adding more does or breeding for winter kidding, you need to take that into account. If possible, I would also add another 30 days just in case something happens and you need to feed hay longer. Hay is very, very difficult to find in the spring. 

As far as storing, the damage to hay does not come from rain or snow hitting the sides of the stack - that rolls off - it comes from rain and snow being able to soak into the top of the stack, getting down between bales of hay, and soaking up from the ground. The canopy will work just fine as long as rain/snow cannot blow in under it. If you're not comfortable with that, see if you can attach a tarp to whatever side storms blow in from. I would also stack the hay on pallets to keep it off the ground, and prevent moisture from soaking up from the bottom. I hope this helps!


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## BTRT1 (Jun 12, 2014)

Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to help!!
That is *very* helpful!!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

MsScamp nailed it and I will only add that:

1. You do not need to soak alfalfa pellets for goats - just feed them straight!

2. You may be able to find a local farm that will store your hay for you and you can just pick up a week's worth or month's worth or whatever at a time. Try Craigslist or ask at your local feed store or visit a few horse farms and ask about local hay producers!

3. The size of bales differs a lot so it's hard to estimate how many bales, I would use 3lbs per day per goat as your baseline and go from there. 12 lbs per day for 4 goats, if we're talking 40 lb bales then you are looking at 2 to 2.5 bales per week.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Great questions BTRT1! MsSCamp and SalteyLove, Ya'll are teaching me so much. I really appreciate your help. :thumbup:

I am still trying to locate hay for my 5 ND's. My thoughts were to try and find a local source/supplier before Winter. There is room in the the barn to store the hay but I'm not having much luck.

Please explain what "Grass Hay" is. In my area, Fescue and Bermuda or a combination of both is what is typically grown. Seems like, round bales are most common these days. Fescue runs between $3 -$6 a square bale. Thankfully, MsSCamp cautioned me about feeding Fescue. I did do some research online and found several articles about the toxicity of Fescue in Goats but I've also had folks tell me they feed it to their goats all the time with no problems. With my luck....I hesitate to risk it. :-o

Bermuda runs $9 - $12 a square bale. I have not found round bales yet. The local feed stores carry Alfalfa sb at $24. or Timothy sb at $ 25. Ouch! I've seen Orchard grass and Peanut Hay advertized but it not really feasible for us. The locations are several hours away. Some even require a certain minimum bale purchase. :sad:

I'm even willing to to purchase round bales of "Grass Hay" if necessary. I can store it under the barn and fork it to them. Again...please explain "Grass Hay" so I know what to look for.  I feel embarrassed asking this! I actually had a fellow tell me grass hay is just a fancy name for lesser quality hay fed to cows and it is fine for goats! It took some effort....and a lot of restraint to remember "I am a Lady" before I responded to him!:slapfloor:


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Grass hay in my area is just that. Grass. Loose, long, soft strands of medium grade hay. Good quality, but not what I prefer to feed my milking girls. Most of the time it's a deep green, almost blue looking. Good base. My herd seems to like it as it is soft, but they go through it like mad. Eating constantly in the winter. Nutrient-wise, it's about a medium quality. Feed some "hotter" hay alongside it to add the goods and you'll be set.


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## BTRT1 (Jun 12, 2014)

Thanks for asking a bout grass hay!

Hay can be hard to find here and this year's rain may cause a crisis!
So I have friends who will get me enough to at least do 50% with some alfalfa pellet supplementing. 

He actually has a big patch that came up about 90% clover and i can have that at a bit cheaper price because the horse folks don't want it. Is that suitable (the clover)?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Naunnie said:


> Again...please explain "Grass Hay" so I know what to look for.  I feel embarrassed asking this! I actually had a fellow tell me grass hay is just a fancy name for lesser quality hay fed to cows and it is fine for goats! It took some effort....and a lot of restraint to remember "I am a Lady" before I responded to him!:slapfloor:


Using the most simple definition, grass hay is any variety of grass that has been grown, cut, raked, and baled for the purpose of feeding. The big things you want to look for is whether it is green, how many seed heads it has, and what it smells like. Grass hay should always smell sweet. If it doesn't, it wasn't put up properly. I'm sure you know that as grass matures, it develops seed heads. What you may not know is that there is a direct correlation between the number of seed heads and the nutritional value of the hay. The higher the amount of seed heads, the lesser the nutritional value. If the grass has been allowed to fully head out, the hay is considered "rank", and you lose a lot of palatability and nutrition. If the seed heads are shedding seed, the hay is basically filler. Does that help a bit?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Man, getting hay sounds way more complicated on the mainland than it is here.

I've got three choices:

Timothy hay at almost $50 bale
Afalfa hay at $30+ a bale 
and 
Orchard Grass at $30+ a bale

Prices all depend on the cost of gas because it's barged over. And I get no say on "what cut". I just found out that there is different types of cuts for alfalfa hay! lol

Since our alfalfa is almost totally stems I end up buying orchard grass as a "treat". Mine don't really get hay very much.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Actually, Dayna, even in my area we almost always get 4 cuttings off the pivots - and occasionally 5! :laugh:


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Whats a pivot? Too many hay choices! lol


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

A huge overhead sprinkler that travels around the field in a circle.

http://www.zimmatic.com/center-pivots


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Hay quantities for Nigerian Dwarf goats which may be similar to Pygmy goat needs: with one nursing mama one bale lasted a month. Now with four goats, I go through about a bale a week, which is about the same rate.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I do like the person that talked in pounds. What size bale are you guys talking about? Ours are like 100#'s that we get here.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Sounds like I should ship some hay to Hawaii! We only get $4-6 per bale depending on the cut for 40-60 lb two-string square bales.


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## BTRT1 (Jun 12, 2014)

Ah! So I definitely need a better hay dispenser since my mama goat is wasting SO MUCH. Our bales are 40-60#. If the clover hay is good, I will do that and do my math


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Ok I have pygmies. I usually feed alfalfa and my dry does and bucks get one 5 lb flake for every two animals. My heavy pregnant and lactating animals get a full 5 lb flake each. I also give a little more in winter. So I would agree with a base of 3-4 lbs per goat. 

Right now I switched to oat hay. The buck gets 3/4 flake. The 5 doe's are try or barely bred so they are getting 2 flakes between them, 1 cup alfalfa pellets per doe, 1/2 cup grain and 1/4 cup boss per doe. 

Around here alfalfa pellets are $13-14 for 50 lb bag. And an 70 lb bale of alfalfa is $10-12, so I consider it close. When I run out of oat hay I will switch back to alfalfa.

My winter I consider Mid October to Mid April so 6 months. I like to over estimate, so would do 2 bales a week. Thats 8-10 bales a month. So 60 bales is what I would put up. And your shed with top will be good except tarp 2-3 sides and store on pallets to avoid loosing bottom bales to mold.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Hey BTRT1. I have been looking for an inexpensive hay feeder and found several DIY types on-online. The one I liked the best, is on a Nigerian Dwarf Goats website. I'm not sure if posting the link is allowed here, but I'm sure you can find it. She claims it is working great and a lot less waste. I made 2 yesterday out of rubbermaid trash cans. Basically, you cut slits/holes on both sides. Place a cinder block in the bottom for weight and to help elevate the hay flakes. Bungee cord top on and Bungee to tree/post. 

I found similar types made from plastic totes and even feed bags! Hope this helps. I will be picking up some hay this evening. I'm excited to see if it works.


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## BTRT1 (Jun 12, 2014)

You are all so helpful! Thank you!

That is great info summersun!

Yes! I do remember seeing the Rubbermaid feeders! Will take a look again! I was all worried thinking nanny had a zinc deficiency because she had lost a lot of facial hair... Then I realized it was exactly where her nose pushes into the current hay feeder lol


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