# Casper COD results. Listeriosis.



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

My buck is down. Went to check water one last time before dark and he couldn't stand up. He had been fine this afternoon. 

We got him in a wagon and brought him to the house. 
Eyes not darting around but not looking at us. 
Some drool in his mouth. 

Gave him:
1-2 cc thiamine as that is all I had left. 
3.5 cc LA-200
3cc activated charcoal
7cc bloat release
3cc nutra drench
5 cc probiotics

This is do or die. He did get up after the LA-200 an walk sideways for 10 steps then stoped at our stairs and stood with his head on the steps. 
Rumen sounded ok but not great and active as normal. 
We put him in the garage. 

WHat else can we do??


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down!*

Lots of drool!! Puddle under his head now.

Eye lids are nice and pink temp is normal.


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Buck down!*

How horrible, I have no idea, hopefully someone here can help. I will say prayers for him


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down!*

Thanks. This is our sweet boy Casper.

He is not been fed grain and is on pasture and hay.


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Buck down!*

Weird that no one has posted with helpful advice yet - maybe you should put "emergency" in your title?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Buck down!*

Is the stomach distended?

Do you think it is frothy bloat?

Did you check to see if he has a blockage of food in his throat?

Is he choking or just drooling?

Signs of discomfort?

Could he of gotten ahold of poison?
Are their any poisonous snakes around?
Did you look for any swellings?


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Stomach looks fairly normal but hard to tell since he is laying down.

Because of the drool with a little bit of foam-- I did the frothy bloat fluid

didn't look for blockage will go do that now.

not making choking noise just laying there drooling a LOT

yes he is uncomfortable but is out of it

no poison that I know of no access to anything other than pasture
hubby says maybe poison snake?? have never seen one but possibly.

hard with all his fur to see swelling or small bite. 
nothing visible thru fur or felt when examining him


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Did you get a hold of Dr Bergmann? It certainly sounds like a possible polio or listeria but Im not vet and this is certainly a time when I would call one as I told you on the phone. HOping he makes a recovery quickly ray:


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

So sorry Logan... With the 2 polio/listeria episodes I've dealt with, theres been no drooling...just darting eyes and staggerring.

Drooling is a symptom of Listeria/Polio though mine did not have it.

LA200 will not work....you need to get PenG and start treatment for both....even pastured goats are susceptable

Also...since you have no more straight Thiamine...HIGH doses of FORTIFIED B complex are needed. Him not looking at you....does he blink when you pass your finger close to his eye? Blindness may already have set in if he doesn't.

It is important to get the Pen G and the FORTIFIED B into him every 6 hours. IM is preferred and him being ND....If he's around 50lbs...I was treating my pygmy buck Hank with 6cc Pen G and 3cc Thiamine every 5-6 hours for the first day and a half.....if you get the FORTIFIED B complex, you'll need to get no less than 10cc into him

Please though, if you can call the vet do so....I'm just giving info on what I've done with my experiences


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Prayers sent that way.... I agree.. with seeing a vet...it did hit him fast and hard.... he is quite down... :hug: ray:


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Stacey I left a message for him and am hoping he will call back.

Liz I have had B complex on order with Jeffers for months and am still waiting and everyone seams to be out. 
No more Thiamine but can get something tomorrow. 
Can't find the Pen. !
With all the supplies I have the ones I need aren't here!


----------



## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I'm so sorry to hear the news about your boy. Wish I could help but I am still learning too. Hope that he makes a turn around soon.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Do you have any goat friends near by... that you can get some of these things from? :hug:


----------



## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Thiamin and penn for polio/listeriosis treatment would probably be a good place to start although it does almost sound like poison of some sort. You can get thiamin capsuls at health food stores, maybe even walmart? I had one that had either polio or listerios several years ago...we never figured out which but i put her on the penn-g and thiamin regim as well as LOTS of sub q fluids. What really helped was giving dex to relieve the swelling in the brain. She did drool but it wasn't puddles or anything. She was staggering, walking in circles and eyes darting before she went totally down. Then her tongue got swollen and that is when the drool started.

I know if he did ingest something toxic mineral oil will help it pass through quicker.


----------



## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Wanted to add if you don't have pen I would continue with LA200 until you can get some...


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Liz- He seams to have no reaction to my movement other than his one ear perks and turns to hear me. Most likely blindness has set in.

He did have his head a few inches off the floor when I went out this time. That is the first positive sign I have seen.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I have nothing to add...but I am thinking of you guys...sending prayers and good thoughts. :hug:


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Did you do benedril in case of alergic reaction or snake bite? You can give 2 for dwarf goat and 4 for standard goat in severe cases.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

No change for good or bad.

Didn't think of Benedryl

a Vet should be here shortly. ray:


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Praying for the bucky man.


----------



## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Hope good news is forth coming......


----------



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

sending prayers your way, unfortunately I have no advice. I am praying that the vet gets there and he can be saved :hug:


----------



## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I hope everything works out ok :hug: Youre in my prayers


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

:hug: ray:


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

ray:


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

:hug: ray:


----------



## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Hope he is doing a bit better now?? What did the vet say?

Treatment for poisonous snake bite would be very different so hopefully the Listeriosis is confirmed by the vet soon. If he/she thinks snake bite. He needs 6cc of Dexamethosone once every 4 hours for a total of 12cc's, IV fluids (which can be administered SubQ) and 6-8 benadryl every 4 hours for 36 hours.


----------



## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

ray: My heart is with you!


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Thank you all for your thoughts.

We had the vet put Casper to sleep and out of his misery.  
We got a vet here this AM. Not our normal vet who I love and not this great mobile that I spoke to on the phone. This vet was new to me and does only livestock. She seamed fairly aware about goats and a mentioned all the possibilities that I had thought of.

By the time she was here he was paralyzed on his right side. Had no vision in either eye. Still couldn't stand on his own and could barely hold his head up when we lifted it. She was amazed at the amount of drool. She felt it was best for him to be put down. She said she could treat him very aggressively with drugs and possibly there could be some recovery but it was a slim chance. It was very hard for my hubby and I to see him in such a bad state. We decided that it was probably best and agreed to let her put him down. 
We held him as he left and will miss him very much.  He was a great boy and wonderful buck. 
We just got home from driving him down to the state animal health lab where we brought him to have necropsy and testing done. Hopefully there will be some answer as to what caused this.


----------



## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Oh, Logan, I'm so sorry. :hug:


----------



## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

How sad. I am very sorry for your loss. It is a hard thing to deal with but all our prayers are with you.


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I am so sorry for your loss. He will always be with you in your heart.


----------



## Amp (Jun 27, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I'm so sorry for your loss.


----------



## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Oh Logan.... I'm so sorry...  :hug: You tried hard, and you did what you could. Hopefully the necropsy will give some answers. I know how hard it is to lose a goat....


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

Hard to say goodbye.  
Hopefully we will get a answer from the necropsy and tests.


----------



## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I'm sorry. I remember letting my girl go. It was hard. It's always hard.

My prayers and sympathy are with you :hug:


----------



## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

I am sorry you lost him. I hope you get your results soon so you can start to healt


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

How sad...my heart goes out to you....  :hug:


----------



## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

How awful for you. I've dealt w/ listeriosis and had many friends whose goats had polio and none hit so completely so fast. Is it possible your guy could have gotten into anything toxic? Would a snake bite affect like that? So sorry for your loss but anxious to see the necropsy results.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Urgent! Buck down!*

The vet did say that she has seen it hit hard and fast but I had read there would be some warning signs which there were none. The only thing I noticed about him in the afternoon was that his eyes were more dilated than usual.

Maybe a toxic plant but :shrug: I have seen some milkweed out there but they usually don't reach out of their pasture for anything and have never seen them touch that.

Not sure how a snake bite would present itself.

State lab said we would have results by Monday and hopefully some like rabies by tomorrow.


----------



## mtmom75 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I'm so sorry for your loss.


----------



## Realfoodmama (Apr 13, 2010)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

The other thing that comes to mind with drooling is a stroke. I am sorry to hear you lost him and hope that you will find out what happened soon :hug:


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I am so very sorry.....it just sucks to loose one :hug: , we still miss our Murphy so much......my heart is so sad for you.


----------



## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Oh no! I a :hug:  m so sorry Logan.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*



Realfoodmama said:


> The other thing that comes to mind with drooling is a stroke. I am sorry to hear you lost him and hope that you will find out what happened soon :hug:


That actually was on the vets list of possible reasons. I wonder if it was what causes a stroke.


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Sorry for your loss. Hope you get some answers. :hug:


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

So sorry for your loss.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Here is a photo of my sweet guy.


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

What a sweetheart, I am sooooo very sorry.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

He was beautiful.... 

again.. I am so sorry.... :hug:


----------



## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I am so sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you. :mecry:


----------



## Steph (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I'm so sorry you lost Casper. :hug:


----------



## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I'm so sorry. :hug:


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Logan...My heart goes out to you and your hubby :hug: I am so sorry he went down so fast, I hope that the vets at the state hospital can give you answers, you did a very unselfish thing too....I'm sure that your boy was very grateful to you for that :hug:


----------



## concobabe5 (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I am so sorry for your loss.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

OH wow, I am so sorry for your loss, how very very heartbreaking. I hope you can find out what caused this, and hopefully it won't affect any of your other goats. I could never imagine seeing one of our goats go through this, so my heart is definitely with you. You did what you could for him, but in the end, God had other plans for him.... RIP sweet, beautiful boy


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

What a cute little guy. I am so sorry for your loss Logan. :hug:


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I just put a bunch of photos of him on my Facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freedom-Star-Farm-Nigerian-Dwarf-Goats/121645621244265
Gosh I remember what a adorable little ball of white fluff he was as a kid.


----------



## Jane (Apr 17, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I'm so sorry! :hug: He was a cutie. I lost my favorite buck last fall to similar symptoms. Test results all pointed to cyanide poisoning from sumac.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Jane did your boy get the paralysis?


----------



## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

If not something toxic or metabolic then the idea of a stroke sounds very plausible. It's so tough to lose one and we've all been through it and empathize.


----------



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

:grouphug: I am so very sorry for your loss. I was hoping the vet. could turn him around, but I knew by the symptoms you described he was very sick. You did everything you could--you are a wonderful caretaker. I am so sorry this happened. I looked at your photos of Casper-he was a gorgeous buck! I love his little horn  Do you have any of this offspring that you can keep? That helped us a lot to have Whitney's buckling. We can remember her through him.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Burns to this point we have sold all his offspring. He was a wonderful buck and has sired 7 kids 6 of them were does. 
We do have 3 possibly 4 does that are caring his kids now. I am going to keep one of those kids when they are born!


----------



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Oh that is good-at least maybe you can be excited over the possibility of choosing one of his offspring. I know that having Mojo really helped us with our loss of Whitney-emotionally and the financial thoughts too. Whitney was a 100% south african black boer. They are sort of hard to come by. Even the vet, when he opened our trailer, on the day the babies were delivered, took a double take at Whitney and commented on her breeding.

So hopefully Mojo will mature into a nice buck and we can still carry on the genetics that way. You will have to keep me posted on the babies from Casper, I would love to see the one you choose.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I will let you all know!  It is nice to have a kid from him. I do also visit 3 of the die kids from this Spring that he sired. I will attach a photo of them from the other day. I also had to attach another photo of Casper.


----------



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

oh so cute! That little white doe looks just like him!!


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Yes her name is Ortie and she looks just like dad and even has his blue eyes.


----------



## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

I'm so sorry for your loss -- what a beautiful boy he was!


----------



## Jane (Apr 17, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

Yes, Levi did get the paralysis and the drooling. He was 4 1/2 years old. He also had bloody urine, but no infection, stones, or blockages. He was fine- bred two of my does the day before he started acting off. Within 36 hours of acting off he was dead. I really wanted a buck kid from that breeding- I got one but he is a double cryptorchid.

I am sorry again. Hope you get some great kids from him.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Buck down. Goodbye sweet Casper.*

So the vet just called and the state had called her. 
Rabies was negative. That is great!!
On gross autopsy all they saw that was abnormal was blood in the intestine. Normal feces. 
Nothing off anywhere else. No enlarged anything. Nothing abnormal in the rumen. 
They say it may take a few weeks to get the other tests back. 
Will keep you updated.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

Wow... he was gorgeous.... 

Nothing found yet in the test...man that is bizarre.... :hug:


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

yea other than the blood in the intestine so far everything else looked normal. :shrug:


----------



## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

He was such a handsome boy. I really hope you find out what happened to him...


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*



> yea other than the blood in the intestine so far everything else looked normal. :shrug:


 :doh: :hug:


----------



## Kimmerz Cali Kidz (Apr 30, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

:hug: That's so crazy! Sorry for your loss!


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

So sorry to hear of your buck passing, he was very cute. Sounds like polio to me. I had a lamb got that went paralyzed on one side entirely and blind in both eyes. Confirmed by vet. No drool though.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

firelight were they able to confirm it on necropsy? gross or detailed? I am still waiting for more results but wonder what would indicate to them if it was polio.


----------



## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

Did the vet offer any idea of what blood in the intestines could indicate?


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

mnspinner.. wellnot really she said that it is very common when a system shuts down for the intestines to get blood anthem. She said that since he had normal poop in his latter intestine that the blood was new not a contributing factor.


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

Mine didn't die. Vet diagnosed her with polio and then began treatment with an IV....I assume it was thiamine. The lamb recovered so I guess they were correct, although she was blind for something like a week after had to be hand fed and watered around the clock because she refused to move without being able to see. Once she could see she ate fine but decided she no longer had to lead...just would lay down and have me drag her across the lawn..........I seriously like goats a whole lot better than sheep.


----------



## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*



firelight27 said:


> ...just would lay down and have me drag her across the lawn...........


When i was first teaching Bailey to walk on lead, she was very stubborn - i would pull and she would pull back, bracing her feet, and refusing to move - but since she was little, eventually i got my own way. One day she flopped on her side and refused to budge................so i picked her up (i love mini goats) and showed her that it didn't matter, i'd still get my own way. I don't recall too many battles after that.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Casper some necropisy results page 5 waiting for more.*

Finally heard back from the state. Casper died of Listeriosis. 
Now we have to wait a week to see what strain it was.


----------



## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wow that took a long time for answers. At least it wasnt anything contagious or you would have been treating blindly still.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss. I'm glad you were able to find out what it was.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I can't believe how long it took to get the results!!! Stacey you are right that I am lucky it wasn't something that could have been contagious! 

The vet told me that the Listeriosis bacteria are always present in the environment and somehow just sometimes goats fall susceptible to them. Generally those with weakened immune systems. Casper was always healthy so I am not sure why he was affected.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I also asked the vet because I thought that there was generally a progression of the goats slide downhill and Casper had gone from fine to horrible in half a day. 
She said that sometimes certain strains of the bacteria can progress amazingly quickly. We are still waiting to find out what strain this was.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well he might have had something previous to you having him that already compromised his system


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> well he might have had something previous to you having him that already compromised his system


That is a good point. 
I am just shocked at how quick it all happened.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*** Vet said that at signs of Listeriosis give a double or triple dose of Penicillin. Repeat that in 6 hours then go to a regular dose and continue until goat recovers. Improvement should be seen within a few hours.


----------



## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

So sorry.....he was an awfully cute boy. Glad you have some answers.


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Yep, that is how I have always been to to treat it.

I am so sorry, but at least you have a answer. I know it took time but at least they did not do things so fast that they missed it.

Was this guy around any moldy grain of Hay? People do not realize how fast moldy hay can do this. :hug:


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

freedomstarfarm said:


> *** Vet said that at signs of Listeriosis give a double or triple dose of Penicillin. Repeat that in 6 hours then go to a regular dose and continue until goat recovers. Improvement should be seen within a few hours.


With the 2 cases of polio/listeria I've had here...thats what I started immediately with the 1st...the 2nd, I lapsed in judgement and almost lost him.

Pen G is one of the cheaper antibiotics and is useful in many situations so it should be kept handy.

Glad that you got the results....and I know with the 2 here, I am extremely careful with sniffing grain and hay before giving it so I know that mold likely wasn't the culprit...bird droppings as well as rodents can carry listeria.


----------



## Krazy-Kidsx2 (Jul 20, 2011)

I have been following this thread since the beginning and I just want to tell you I am sorry for the loss of your little guy.  I thought you might find this interesting. :shocked:

www.webmd.com/food.../cdc-warning-deadl ... cantaloupe


----------



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I am so sorry this happened. It is good to have the answers. It just took him so quick there was no way you could tell that was what he had. :hug:


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Lori no moldy hay and they were not getting any grain.


----------

