# Weak Buckling



## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi all, 
I'm looking for some advice. I had a buckling come out of the veld with the main herd. He didn't seem to belong to any of those does, possibly might have belonged to a doe who came home with a kid at her side the day before. He seemed quite strong, we gave him drink from a doe who had lost her twins that morning. Yesterday found my little mister weak, unable to stand on his own feet. He seemed to have a bit of upper respiratory infection, a stuffy nose slight crackling in the lungs. Gave him 1\2cc Sulfatrim, he is breathing easier, but despite another 1\2cc BCo is still not on his feet. Repeated the antibiotics and BCO today, but he still seems weak, unable to stand on his own feet. I live in South Africa, I have searched high and low for a good booster for weak kids, but all the stuff mentioned here and elsewhere is unavailable to me. 
What else can I do to help the poor little baby? 


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Approximate age?

Has he only had the one meal since coming in? Is he eating hay, browse or grain, or just milk?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Fever ?


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## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

What is his age? Able to get your hands on a BoSe shot?
Or selenium/vitamin E gel?

Loose stool or any other symptoms?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

You're in South Africa so a lot of what we can advise isn't available. Let's see. We always use whiskey for weak babies....a little mixed into some warm milk and give. Gives them a quick burst of energy that they need. Black coffee does the same thing. Honey or syrup rubbed on their gums. all those will help give him a burst of energy.

Does he have scours? 

How much is he eating for you?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Try to get his temp...101.5 to 103.5 is normal range..( 38.611 c- 39,722c) 
Honey on the tongue give quick energy...sounds to me he may not be getting enough milk...are you bottling him? if so how much..also get a weight on him...

choices to boost energy, 

nutra drench is a vitamin drench
B complex injectable
Molasses


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## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

He is about 3 days old now, today will be day 4. He is getting milk from a doe who lost her twins. I have given him 1/2cc of B Complex IM two days in a row. Another farmer said I should try some glucose? I have some Calcium Gluconate in the meds cabinet, might it be of any use? 


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

No calcium gluconate is different. Any of the honey, molasses, syrup would give the same benefit as glucose. If you can get glucose, you can certainly try it but you should have at least one of those other items in your kitchen....

Is he dehydrated? That will also cause them to go down hill very quickly. How much are you feeding him daily?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...stick with honey on his tongue...it will work just as well as glucose...has he pooped? you should have seen black gooy poop then yellow...if hes not pooping he will go down fast as well...is he nursing the doe who lost her twins or being bottles with her milk....if bottled..how much how often...and how much does he weigh....

if hes not pooping...do an enema...warm water and oil, such as casterol or olive oil..cooking oil... about a tablspoon of oil to 1/2 cup warm water...mix well anddraw some up in a syringe...no needle...insert just the tip and slowly fill him up...stop when some squirts back out..massage his tummy ..repeat as needed...it cantake 30-40 minutes to get results so be patient...once he poops give some rest...the oil left in the intestines should help keep things moving...if not...do another enema as needed..


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## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

Hi guys, 
Sorry I haven't checked in again. So far no change in "Miracles" condition. Day after tomorrow it will be a week since he was found. I gave him some molasses syrup yesterday and today. Didn't seem to make any difference. He still can barely keep his own head up long enough to drink. So if you guys have any more suggestions, please. 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What is the temp? If it is sub, the kid is in danger and must be warmed up to 100 degree's minimum before feeding.
Mouth cold?

Is the kid getting enough to eat? If a kid doesn't get enough, it makes them weak and makes them go sub temp.

Or it could be floppy kid syndrome.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh wow. Ummm...let's see. Is he dehydrated? Do the skin tent test...pinch a fold of skin, if it slips right back down into place he is hydrated, if it stays pinched up he needs fluids.

Floppy kid says they won't be able to use tongue to drink....does he suckle ok when he can?

ETA: How much does he weigh? And exactly how much are you feeding him?


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## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

Kccjer, he suckles just fine when given the chance. He drinks from a doe so I have no control over how much. I'll check for dehydration. Floppy kid also entered my thoughts, but I also read that it affects the suckling reflex and that's about the only thing that isn't affected. 
I'll try adnd get a weight on him.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

He just may not be able to get any milk . It could look as if he is nursing , but he's not getting enough . Weakness will play a role in his nursing abilities , he could be just going through the motions.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Very true Laura. BorderCollie....I would definitely start supplementing with bottles. Since he's nursing off a doe, you really don't know how much he is actually getting or if he's getting enough. You should know within a day of starting supplement bottles if that was the problem or not


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats what i would do ^^^^


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

He may be getting just enough milk not to die or getting too much to digest fast enough......
get him to nurse mom then feel his tummy...you want it to feel firm flattish....if he is sunken in he is not getting enough...if he is pooching out..he is getting too much

If he is not getting enough...feel moms udder...be sure its not congested...squirt her teats to see milk flow....if orphus's are tight..he might get tired of sucking be fore he gets his fill....
If he is very poochy..tummy hard..then he is getting too much and will nee digestion time... you will need to work on a scedual to pullim from mom every few hours or so to digest the milk...CD antitoxin keeps toxins from building..Milk of Magnesia will also flush toxins if he becomes very lethargic from toxcity if you donthave cd antitoxin

BUT lets assess first how much milk he is actually getting first...based on how his tummy feels....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with Cathy.

Also check the mouth for Cleft pallet or any genetic flaws in case, not allowing the kid to get enough. 
It might not be the case but, it is good to know in case.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I worried about this little guy. Bordercollie , I'm thinking your going to have to bottle him in order for him to have a chance. And thats without him having any other issues going on such as cleft pallet .
I know your limited on meds and things , but start by giving a good exam and we can all try to help from there. Time is of the essence with this little boy.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Bordercollie, weak kids recover fast with the right help, or get bad fast without it. I know you're in a different time zone, but we'd all be happy to help as we can if you can check things out and let us know what you find. Especially regarding whether his tummy is full.


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## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

He is given as much time as he needs to drink untill his tummy feels full. The does udder is fine, we check by milking a little every time before he drinks. The other rejected kid also drinks from her and is doing great. Today it will be a week since we found him, tomorrow a week since he fell ill. 
Will check for genetic abnormalities. Haven't checked that yet. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I don't just want to give up on him.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Just a thought here……sometimes a baby can drink too much and make itself ill that way. Being the doe isn't his momma , she may just let the baby nurse freely and not walk away in a few seconds ….
Is the baby's tummy feel like its not hollow or does it feel sorta like a little poofy , for lack of a better word….
We know you won't give up on the baby Bordercolie 
We need to be a little aggressive on finding whats wrong given how young this baby is and its rough start in life.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> He is given as much time as he needs to drink untill his tummy feels full.


a good feel is flat but firm...if he is poochy then he maybe getting too much...try giving 1/4 teaspoon baking soda in just enough water to drench...see if it helps..


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Is he standing on his own now? Still stuffy, or breathing okay now? 

A kid with poor suckling strength can latch onto a teat for a while and still not get enough to eat, even if the doe offers plenty of milk. Or, as already mentioned, eating too much can make a kid sick. Feeling his tummy after a meal will help you check whether he's eating too little, too much, or just right.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

When the kid is on the teat, tickle the top of the tailhead area on the back, this helps stimulate nursing.


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## Bordercollie (Jul 11, 2012)

Harley, no luck on getting him to his feet. No stuffiness anymore. Lungs sound clear. I am really at my wits end. I've never seen anything like it before. Weak kids, yeah. But not this weak, but still alive despite the odds. 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Check for joint-ill, are any joints hot, swollen and painful?

What is the temp?

Was Bo-se given

Wimpy kid/floppy kid also comes to mind as well.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/fks-i-cant-find-answers-i-need-145930/


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Bordercollie, do you have a veterinarian you can contact to get some BoSe (selenium & vitamin E injection)? If not can you get selenium oral supplement from your farm/ranch suppliers? Or a multi-mineral supplement? I would work very hard to get the injectable selenium supplement if possible. It appears that selenium deficiency is as common in parts of Africa as it is here in the US. 

Did you feel Miracle's belly after feeding? 

Babies don't usually get all the selenium they need from milk. With him still being weak, I really want to see you get a selenium supplement into him. Injectable is going to work better than an oral supplement, but get what you can.

Please read the thread toth boer goats linked - does that sound like Miracle?

Is he growing at all?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things?


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