# Frozen kids



## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

We had two kids born in 20 degree weather. We didn’t FB find them until several hours after they were born. They were freezing cold. Not knowing what to do, we brought them inside, dries them off, and warmed them up. It has taken us all day to get temps up. They were so weak that we had to keep them inside. We have taken them out to mom several times but they have not been able to nurse successfully. I was able to squeeze out gooey yellow sticky substance from udders but never got milk? The babies have only had “replacement” colostrum from a bag. We’re taking them to the mom every couple hours but they just lay on the ground. They’re barely standing in their own. We’ve decided to keep them inside tonight and take them down to the Mama every couple hours throughout the night. BUT we have 5 other goats close to kidding and the temp isn’t going to get much better. Any suggestions on how to do this better next time? We had not intended on them getting pregnant so fast. We had hoped for March deliveries but our male goat got to them before we knew it.... so, we need best advise for keeping these alive. BTW- I never got milk from mom.....


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

The gooey sticky yellow substance is colostrum, sometime it's really thick sometimes it's thinner. Give it to the kids in a syringe, tilt their head back slightly and slowly push the plunger while rubbing the kids throat until they swallow. Remember, don't try to feed them until their temp is normal. If you have b-complex give them 1/2cc each SQ.


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## GoatSavvy (Jan 25, 2018)

wow how sad! I hope they get on their feet, literally! 

do you have electrolytes? you can get some at any local feed store, if you can't get some then give them some gatorade... just give them a few ounces, like 2-4oz, ideally they should have colostrum (the yellow sticky stuff) but if they're too tired then they may need a short energy boost (from the electrolytes). If you don't have gatorade handy either, sugary juice works.

If you have iron on hand, that can help too... Also, do you have a heat lamp? if you can, hang a heat lamp over a box with shavings or straw.

If you can't get enough colostrum from the goat then get some from a feed store, if they don't have kid colostrum, then sheep colostrum will do... if none of that, then cow colostrum works too! they NEED colostrum, many babies die from not getting enough of that liquid gold! Eventually, after the first milking or two, the doe should start producing milk. 

Good luck!


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

GoatSavvy said:


> wow how sad! I hope they get on their feet, literally!
> 
> do you have electrolytes? you can get some at any local feed store, if you can't get some then give them some gatorade... just give them a few ounces, like 2-4oz, ideally they should have colostrum (the yellow sticky stuff) but if they're too tired then they may need a short energy boost (from the electrolytes). If you don't have gatorade handy either, sugary juice works.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! One baby is doing pretty good. We got their temp up to 103. The little boy (we have one boy and one girl) has eaten powdered colostrum pretty consistently. He had one feeding of about 3 oz and another feeding of 2 oz. we saved the sticky colostrum we were able to get from the Mama and gave some to each baby. It wasn't much but I figured any was better than nothing. We took them down to the Mama around 10:00pm and they both just laid around. I took them back at 1am and the little boy walked around and mom licked on him. The little girl tried standing but was still wobbly. The little boy ate 2 oz of the replacement colostrum straight from the bottle and went back to sleep. The little girl does not want to suck. I tried on her Mama and on the bottle. So, I got about an oz in her but it was slow and tedious. Little drops from a syringe. Got a little nutro drench I'm her too. I put her back on the heating pad and I'll check on her again in a couple hours. I will try to get some Gatorade in her next time she wakes up.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

goat girls said:


> The gooey sticky yellow substance is colostrum, sometime it's really thick sometimes it's thinner. Give it to the kids in a syringe, tilt their head back slightly and slowly push the plunger while rubbing the kids throat until they swallow. Remember, don't try to feed them until their temp is normal. If you have b-complex give them 1/2cc each SQ.


The colostrum was so thick and sticky it was like glue. I took what I got from the Mama (which wasn't much) and gave each baby as much as I could. I figured even a tiny bit was better than none. We are taking them to their mom every few hours but neither is nursing (we tried forcing). They ARE finally trying to walk around a little. One baby has eaten the "replacement" colostrum (from powder) pretty well. He ate 3 oz at about 10:00pm and 2 oz at 1:00am. He has eaten all throughout the day but it's been small amounts every hour or so. The little girl hasn't been as cooperative. We're having to feed her from a syringe most of the time. Tiny drops at a time. She'll suck on the bottle a little but usually only gets about an oz or so and then stops. We're just persevering and doing all we can to make them stronger and stronger. I'm going to call the vet in the morning to see if she has any other suggestions.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

When you put the bottle in there mouth tickle their tail head a little bit to mimic there mom nuzzling them.


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

You can also try pretending to be mum, covering her eyes to simulate the darkness of mum's udder and cuddling her close sometimes works. Tickling her chin might help too. That's what I do with my kiddies.


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Also don't worry too much; so long as you get a little into then frequently they (should) be just fine.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They need a B complex shot. Probably need some selenium too. You may have to tube the female.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> They need a B complex shot. Probably need some selenium too. You may have to tube the female.


I just picked up 2 selenium shots from my vet. She felt like they were probably not selenium deficient but felt like it made sense to rule it out as well. I forgot to ask for B complex. Can I get that at local feed store? I've switched to milk replacer (they're 36 hours old) to try to get calories in her. The little boy is walking around and did try to nurse mom today. No milk :/ So, despite my best efforts I think they are both going to be bottle babies. The little girl tries to walk around but isn't quite as strong. She still won't suck and is still struggling to retain her own body temp. She keeps hovering around 100. I have her under a heating pad and I'm flipping her every 10-15 minutes. Gave her some gatorate too and she's peeing so I know she's not dehydrated. I'm hoping I can get some calories in her and get her stronger. I know this is a waiting game but it's so frustrating


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Regular whole milk is better than replacer.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Really? Even the homogenized kind? just warm it up?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Mendi said:


> Really? Even the homogenized kind? just warm it up?


Yes and yes.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

OK. Cool! I’m going to try that! Thank you!!! I’ll keep you all posted.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.
I agree, regular whole milk is better than replacer.

Mama needed oxytocin injection early on, it is a bit late now, but that may of helped with milk letdown.

Thick thick colostrum takes some work to get out at first, after a while it starts thinning a bit, making it easier.

Keep milking her, helps to stimulate more milk letdown, having the kids on her, bumping her udder helps. 

Does her udder look full or empty? tight?

What is mama being fed?


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> All great advice.
> I agree, regular whole milk is better than replacer.
> 
> Mama needed oxytocin injection early on, it is a bit late now, but that may of helped with milk letdown.
> ...


there was nothing in her udders. They were completely flat. I massaged her milk "sack" and even "nudged"it and the milk never let down. I tried putting the babies on her too. The little boy nursed and nursed both sides and milk never came in. She got pregnant in August so for aug- probably october, she was grazing in the field. I gave them all grain jus about everyday. just a little to keep them coming to me and friendly. Once our pastures weren't green anymore, she got mostly hay and I would give her alfalfa pellets occasionally. BUT-- I used a hair dryer and finally got the "weaker" babys temp up!! She immediately SUCKED down 2 ounces of whole milk!! Going to try again in a few hours. Ive got a little heater set up in front of their "goat house" to help her maintain her temp better. She was "holding" around 99-100 before but could just never get warmer on her own. The little boy was holding around 101.5- 102. Now, I'm just hoping time will help her body learn to regulate and that I got enough of the "powder" colostrum in her to help her survive. I just don't know.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Make sure she's above 100 before feeding.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

I got her to 103

She had hung around 99-100 on her own and I just couldn't figure out how to get her warm enough. That's why she barely ate yesterday and why I'm super concerned about her  The little boy is holding his own temp around 101- 102 now and he ate pretty good yesterday (colostrum) and better today (colostrum first and then milk). When I got her body temp up, she immediately ate 2 oz. I had a neighboring goat farmer check the mama. She has no milk. He suggested cow's milk as well. We are going to use "straight out of the cow" milk from my husband's uncle's dairy cow. So, we're down to the realization that all we can do is give them cow's milk and wait.... Does anyone have any other suggestions? I just wonder what their chances are.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

You can get b-complex at TSC.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

goat girls said:


> You can get b-complex at TSC.


OK. Thank you!!


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Your welcome.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Does anyone have a "likelihood" of them making it? Is it really just 50/50? Or should I be preparing for the worst? I feel like the cards are stacked against us for sure.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

It's hard to say, we had a 3 day old Doeling that was cold,not eating and limp we were sure she was going to die that night but she survived. Then we had a buckling recovering and he died that night.
So it's pretty much a 50/50 chance right now.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I would definitely get fortified B-complex and syringes and needles at the feed store. 22 gauge half inch will work. Give them each 0.5cc injection subcutaneously and repeat for 3 days. 

Did you give the selenium?

I can't quite tell from your posts- are they inside the house? If the doeling is not regulating temperature well yet I would be cautious about putting her back out (although I do encourage them to move outside as soon as possible nearby the other goats to help them rejoin the herd when older!) 

Be sure the bottle is at 100*F when feeding and be cautious not to overfeed. The belly should be firm and flat or VERY slightly rounded when they finish the bottle, if they are rounded then decrease a bit at the next feeding time. 

If they are up, walking, starting to bounce and actively seeking the bottle every 3 or so hours then I would say their odds ate better than 50%.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

I’m sorry. I know my posts are all over the place . Yes. They are inside the house. It’s 20 degrees outside and The mom didn’t produce milk so it’s all us . Once they are stronger I’m hoping I can return them. We have 7 other girls that are pregnant and several who are very close to kidding. I’m hoping that I can get them out there with the herd and the other babies but it’s got to warm up. 

They are standing and walking around but not for very long periods of time. They’re still sleeping a lot. We got “colostrum” cow milk from our neighbor. It’s the milk from the first few days after the calf is born. So, I’m hoping the fat content will help them. I’m feeding them slowly and kind of letting them run the show. They’re eating about 2 oz every couple hours right now. I’m Hoping they’ll get stronger and be able to go longer between meals quickly. Otherwise, I’ll be taking them to work with me next week


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm wondering, based on all you have said, if they may have been somewhat premature. Do they have teeth poking through the bottom front gums? Is their fur thick and plush or perhaps thin on the ears or legs? If you think they may have been premature, keep a close ear to them for lung troubles!


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

They have the little teeth on the bottom and they have pretty thick fur. Even their ears are fully covered. But- I’ve had 2 other goat farmers suspect the same. We introduced our male goat on August 25. Babies were born on Jan 25 (day 153 IF she got pregnant the very first day). We have several other Mama goats that look VERY close so it’s hard to tell. But, I’m wondering if you’re right? I’m keeping a close eye on them. I’m worried about them not eating enough or eating too much? Being too warm? Too cold? Etc. Next week the lows are in the twenties and teens. I really hope we don’t get any more babies for another week or so but I’m afraid they won’t make it that long . This is harder than my OWN kids!!!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

They should eat somewhere between 15 and 20% of their body weight in ounces per day. That's a good guideline but still pay close attention to sunken, flat, or rounded belly at the sides. 

Kid weight (hold then and weigh yourself on bathroom scale then weigh yourself and subtract)
Multiply by 16 to convert to ounces then multiply by 0.2 to get the approximate ounces of total milk per day


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice given.

Praying they will be OK.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

So, they ate pretty well throughout the night. The little girl is still working on keeping her temp regulated. She’s finally hovering around 101. They slept from 3:30-8:30. When I went in to check on them, they both popped up and “ran” over to me and climbed in my lap — obviously looking for milk ). The male drank about 3 1/2 oz and the female drank about 2 oz but they were MUCH more spry and active!!! I think the cows milk has made them turn the corner!! I know we’re not out of the woods but they are def stronger today than yesterday.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds promising.


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## Valley Life Farm (Jan 21, 2018)

Thoughts and prayers to you and your little ones. 

Do you have pictures that you can post showing their progress? I'm such a visual learner. LOL

We have kids due soon and I always find it helpful to know what to look for. What a huge learning experience this has been for you. I'm definitely making sure that I have colostrum and Vitamin B on hand just in case when my does kid out.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

This was day 1 of the little girl 









Valley Life Farm said:


> Thoughts and prayers to you and your little ones.
> 
> Do you have pictures that you can post showing their progress? I'm such a visual learner. LOL
> 
> We have kids due soon and I always find it helpful to know what to look for. What a huge learning experience this has been for you. I'm definitely making sure that I have colostrum and Vitamin B on hand just in case when my does kid out.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

This was day 2









Valley Life Farm said:


> Thoughts and prayers to you and your little ones.
> 
> Do you have pictures that you can post showing their progress? I'm such a visual learner. LOL
> 
> We have kids due soon and I always find it helpful to know what to look for. What a huge learning experience this has been for you. I'm definitely making sure that I have colostrum and Vitamin B on hand just in case when my does kid out.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Today









Mendi said:


> This was day 2
> View attachment 126832


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Valley Life Farm said:


> Thoughts and prayers to you and your little ones.
> 
> Do you have pictures that you can post showing their progress? I'm such a visual learner. LOL
> 
> We have kids due soon and I always find it helpful to know what to look for. What a huge learning experience this has been for you. I'm definitely making sure that I have colostrum and Vitamin B on hand just in case when my does kid out.


I really wish I could post a video. Thursday, the little girl barely moved. Friday, she stood up a little but not much. Her temp was still low. We started cows milk last night. Today, they are up and playing. The little boy is even "hopping" around


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## Valley Life Farm (Jan 21, 2018)

She looks so much better! Way to stick with her. I love the floppy ears. 
Thanks for posting.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

I wish I could get videos to upload. They show the progression the best


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Upload the video to youtube and then post the URL here.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Valley Life Farm said:


> She looks so much better! Way to stick with her. I love the floppy ears.
> Thanks for posting.





goat girls said:


> Upload the video to youtube and then post the URL here.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> goat girls said:
> ...


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

This is the video from tonight- day 3


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

This was our last attempt to get milk from mom. The little girl was too weak to even try. This is the little boy trying.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

This was after beginning cows milk. There's about 8 hours between the attempt to nurse from mom and this video.


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## Alex Kimoto (Dec 16, 2017)

Yay!!! I’m so happy for you guys! Also: your dog is gorgeous! Is it an Aussie?


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Alex Kimoto said:


> Yay!!! I'm so happy for you guys! Also: your dog is gorgeous! Is it an Aussie?


She's a mix . We got her as a rescue from local rescue organization (she and her siblings were left in a box on the side of the road ). But one of her "litter mates" owners sent off DNA to get their breed origins and they are mostly Aussie and Rottie. She is SUPER protective over the goats and if they get out she will herd them right back into their pen .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww, they look great. 
You did a wonderful job getting them up and going, good work. Adorable.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Aww, they look great.
> You did a wonderful job getting them up and going, good work. Adorable.


I'm encouaged but I know we still have some hurdles. I just need the weather to cooperate and WARM UP! These babies are going to be in my house til March!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers still coming.


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## Alex Kimoto (Dec 16, 2017)

Let’s hope for the best! Hopefully the weather gets better!

Rescue dogs are the best! We have an Aussie and she is the same as yours- in the summer she likes to sleep with the goats, and if they get out, she’s quick to get them back in!


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## GoatSavvy (Jan 25, 2018)

they are SOOO CUTE!!! I love the floppy ears! you've done such an amazing job, my hat goes off to you!! it's sure been a rough go of it for you hasn't it?! hoping and praying the next time works out better for you with timing! those goats will never leave your house now, they're part of the family now  haha super cute!


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Update-- day 4. They're finally bouncy


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute, they look great.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

We had 3 more babies born tonight. It’s 27 degrees. They’re all dry, clean and nursing but I am a nervous wreck that they’re going to die during the night because it’s so cold. We put heat lamps in their stalls. I’m just praying they’ll be ok.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Mendi said:


> We had 3 more babies born tonight. It's 27 degrees. They're all dry, clean and nursing but I am a nervous wreck that they're going to die during the night because it's so cold. We put heat lamps in their stalls. I'm just praying they'll be ok.


If they are clean and dry and in a draft free stall with their dams and have nursed several times then try not to fret! They can withstand much colder even though it's tough to imagine!


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> If they are clean and dry and in a draft free stall with their dams and have nursed several times then try not to fret! They can withstand much colder even though it's tough to imagine!


One dam (I'm getting the correct lingo ) is a seasoned girl! She is great!!! She had them pretty dry and I finished drying them off with a hair dryer (just because she had 2 and there's only one of her- I thought she could use some help ). I'm going to try to not worry :/. The other baby was completely dry and I saw the baby nursing I just couldn't tell if the baby was getting milk. The dam was nervous and a little protective. She did not care for us being in there with her. . They're inside the barn stalls which are wooden and closed in. There's very little wind (if any). But the front of the barn is open.., so some wind does get in.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

For the dams that don't like "evil humans" messing with their newborn kids - I find it super helpful to bring a bright flashlight to the barn! Then patiently wait for the the kid(s) to nurse and use the flashlight to see if their is a bit of milk at the very corners of their mouth while they are nursing. If I see that - then I can sleep soundly without getting hands-on and bothering them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

Or if you can sneak up on them in the daytime.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Oops. The one born today I scooped up after about an hour and finished drying him off with a hair dryer. He was shivering. The dam didn’t seem to mind but was happier when I brought him back


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

They are one week old today!!!


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

They are so cute.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

OH, congratulations on hard work and persistence paying off! They're adorable... and SO lucky to have you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They are adorable and thriving, good work.


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## Alex Kimoto (Dec 16, 2017)

So adorable! And playful...


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## j_kalman (Feb 8, 2018)

Great work! They are absolutely adorable. <3


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

I wanted to update you all on these kids progress. They will be three weeks old tomorrow. They are drinking cows milk and eating a tiny bit of hay. But mostly, they are acting like normal goats!!! They are even training for goat yoga!!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

That is great!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Great news!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my goodness so cute, They look great.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Our frozen babies are 2 months old!!! Today was their first day out of the barn and with the herd! They have done great but I’m super nervous. It’s 33 degrees and the big goat barn does not have a heat lamp. They’ve lived their lives in a stall with a heat lamp. Now, They are dry, draft-free but inside a barn with all the other goats and no heat lamp. We’ve come so far I’m a nervous wreck!!! Is it too cold for them? I’ve checked on them twice and they seem fine but they cry when I leave. . This is hard. How will I know if it’s too cold?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

If they are all hunchy and shivery, they are probably too cold. It sounds like you have done a wonderful job. Are they still on milk? That will help keep their tummies warm. Offer warm water in a bucket occasionally, too.


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## Mendi (Jan 26, 2018)

Goats Rock said:


> If they are all hunchy and shivery, they are probably too cold. It sounds like you have done a wonderful job. Are they still on milk? That will help keep their tummies warm. Offer warm water in a bucket occasionally, too.


I'm still doing milk am and pm and separating them to make sure they get grain. They seemed to do ok last night. They were happy to see me this morning )). The rest of the week is supposed to be in the high 60s/70s. Lows in 40s. I feel like it's "healthier" for them to have the herd I just don't want to undo all my hard work


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## j_kalman (Feb 8, 2018)

That’s such great news!! <3


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

Hope all goes well and they start eating.


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## dleewilson (Oct 31, 2017)

I've had 2 chilled babies. One made it...one didn't. I was told to get them in a warm tub of water immediately and keep them there til they warmed up. I could tell when, by sticking my pinky in their mouth. At first, their mouths were like ice cubes! As they warmed up so did their mouth and nose. After I got them warmed, quickly dried off, I blow dried the second one for a good hour, then put her on heat pad. She is the survivor. These babies chilled separate from each other. I learned slot from the first one (non survivor) I think we should NOT have force fed the first one. I also think I should have blow dried the first one longer. I learned they CANNOT eat if they are cold. If you force it, they can drown. Can someone with a lot of knowledge either validate or discredit what I've said?

PS: Anytime I have a question or need help, first place I come is here!


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

We had a baby that was down and cold. I used the liter pop bottles and towels and put a bottle on each side of the baby and then had towels on the bottom and on top of the baby. After 30 minutes I put a couple drops of Dyne on the tongue (still very cold mouth) but wanted it to have some sugar and vitamins to help. I did not feed til she was warmer. She came through. The next night we brought her inside and kept her overnight.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Feed kids only if temp is over 100. It really is important to have a working thermometer and take their temp.


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## dleewilson (Oct 31, 2017)

dleewilson said:


> I've had 2 chilled babies. One made it...one didn't. I was told to get them in a warm tub of water immediately and keep them there til they warmed up. I could tell when, by sticking my pinky in their mouth. At first, their mouths were like ice cubes! As they warmed up so did their mouth and nose. After I got them warmed, quickly dried off, I blow dried the second one for a good hour, then put her on heat pad. She is the survivor. These babies chilled separate from each other. I learned slot from the first one (non survivor) I think we should NOT have force fed the first one. I also think I should have blow dried the first one longer. I learned they CANNOT eat if they are cold. If you force it, they can drown. Can someone with a lot of knowledge either validate or discredit what I've said?
> 
> PS: Anytime I have a question or need help, first place I come is here!


UPDATE: Spoke too soon. 2nd chilled baby passed in the night. Vet says probably had pneumonia when she was born.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost them.


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## dleewilson (Oct 31, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Sorry you lost them.


Thanks. Sad deal. First was middle girl of trips. Second one, mom just dropped them (twins) and kept on walking. Maybe if I had meds to give them...


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