# Questions about 4-H



## ThisLittlePygmyFarm (Feb 13, 2013)

I have an 8yr old daughter that would like to join 4-H. I have an apt with someone next week but just thought I'd get an idea here first. We have 3 unregistered Pygmy goats and I'm just wondering if she will be able to use any of them or if they must be registered? I've heard that when you show goats that they are sold for slaughter after showing and can't be kept by the child. That would never work she would be heart broken. Is that all breeds and states that do that? Thanks!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Different states have different requirements. We show on a youth circuit and don't have 4h sanctioned shows. We just do project books and use things as 4h. We only have a.meat goat circuit for wethers and they are sold for.meat.... however we.can.keep them as pets. Our state fair does have doe shows and dairy shows. Even a Pygmy show. 

It depends on what is offered


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Here, the Goat Club includes all breeds, so while the majority do raise Boers for market, we also have dairy people - us and a few other families. You do have to do some sort of project with the goats - either raise them for market, and breeding which covers both dairy and meat goats kept as a breeding pair. I guess Pygmies would be in the breeding goat project, so you wouldn't have to sell them. I'm not sure what class they'd be shown in though.


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## ahead-by-a-hare (Jan 6, 2013)

Where are you located? In ohio we have market shows which are terminal, and shows for regular goats. Our county has for 4-H a doe show as well as classes for Pygmy angora and boers. We also have classes for pack goats and harness. We require tattoos for goats as well as vet papers to ensure the health of our goats.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Yep, every state is different and they are even different per county, so talk to your extension agent.

 In our county only Meat goats are sold for meat. Our Pygmy goat show, they have a registered classes and unregistered classes. I don't agree with that. It is 4h not a sanctioned show


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## ThisLittlePygmyFarm (Feb 13, 2013)

We live in southeast Texas. It's looking like our specific location only does meat goats right now. Goats, rabbits, chickens and hogs are sold for slaughter.  I'm not against that but it's not what I'm looking for. I'll have to find out for sure when I go talk to to ppl in the 4-h office but that what I'm finding out so far. Boo! I was so hoping she could just learn about goats and show for fun.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

You may be able to find a goat association outside of 4H. I'd ask.about that.... usually the livestock agent can help with that


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree, every state is different.
What state are you in?

We're in KY. Here for 4-H project animals they have to either be a market wether or a registered breeding doe.
I've never seen classes at any of the fairs we've gone too for pygmy's. They have dairy classes, boer percentage, boer fullblood, the boer fullblood buck classes.
Market wethers are for youth only, and have to have their scrapie tag, and in the spring they must have a state KUIP tag that is put on by a state official at different tagging sites around the state. 
All 4-H projects have to be registered by June 1st. There is a form for market & breeding animals that has to be filled out. For breeding does, we have to also submit proof of registration or copy of an application for registration by the June 1st deadline.
Breeding does HAVE to have a scrapie tag as well as be tattooed.

Here, you can go from fair to fair and show goats, unless for some reason a county has a closed goat show. I think all of the ones I looked into last year were open shows. There are youth only shows, then there are open shows, where anyone can show in the breeding classes. So kids with breeding animals would show against adults <adults can not show wethers that is youth only>.

Goats also have to have their health papers. Here, you get a health paper and it's good for the entire show season.

In order for kids to be able to sell market wethers at auction, they have to attend 1 district goat show, and the State Fair. Then they have the option to auction their animal off in Sept. But it's not a requirement. 
however, most kids do because they can sell them for a lot of $$, some of it comes back to 4-H for the county, and the rest comes back to the child. 
My kids are doing market wethers for the first time this year. We have 1 that probably won't go to auction, haha, my son's baby, OMG he's so dear to us.
So my son may show 2 wethers plus his does that away he has at least 1 for auction.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Also, if you have does and don't plan on ever breeding them, ask about a pet goat class. The pet goat class is where unqualified goats go, like a 13 mo. old wether or a doe over 2 years of age that has never been bred. They are usually just judged by appearance, which goat is the cleanest,ect. If you don't have a pet class, talk to them about getting one. And sometimes the goat won't even have to stay at the fair all week if your there for the pet show. Just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## lazykranch (Dec 18, 2012)

ahead-by-a-hare said:


> Where are you located? In ohio we have market shows which are terminal, and shows for regular goats. Our county has for 4-H a doe show as well as classes for Pygmy angora and boers. We also have classes for pack goats and harness. We require tattoos for goats as well as vet papers to ensure the health of our goats.


We are in Ohio also. Classes in our county include Pygmy, Dairy, Market Meat Goat( we can show weather or doe). All grand & reserve Markets must goto slaughter. Other than that its your choice to auction them. Just weigh ins & scrapies tags required. There is no open goat shows for our county.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Here in washington for my 4-h, we have one goat for showing, and one goat for the market class. Maybe you can do a dairy goat if you do a market class if she doesn't want them killed, but she will probably have to sell one.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Around here you can only show boer 

And iv shown in 2 diff counties 
1 you butchered 1you didn't it depends.
If you haven't try and get her started in ffa if possible especially if she's shy!!! There's so much leader ship and talking and hanging out i recommend it to everyone


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Showing IS fun. And in south TX you can raise how ever many you like, and do what you like with them. You decide if it's for breeding or market. I'm not...against market animals, I just don't think it's fair to the kids who get attached to the animals they raised, then send them to slaughter? I'm fine with others doing it, but I could never do it myself. Since you live in Texas there should be _some_ show near you that will have a breeder class, but you will need a Boer goat most likely, as it's most common. I showed my goat in market for the prospect shows, and I'm showing her in breeding for the exit show, so she won't have to go to slaughter. You should look into the bigger shows for information, as they will have the most options for showing because more people enter them. Either way, no matter the breed, you need a registered goat.


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## ThisLittlePygmyFarm (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks for all the info everyone!! I'm meeting tomorrow at the 4-H office so I'll find out more then.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

ThisLittlePygmyFarm said:


> We live in southeast Texas. It's looking like our specific location only does meat goats right now. Goats, rabbits, chickens and hogs are sold for slaughter.  I'm not against that but it's not what I'm looking for. I'll have to find out for sure when I go talk to to ppl in the 4-h office but that what I'm finding out so far. Boo! I was so hoping she could just learn about goats and show for fun.


Aww that's a shame, some states just don't have a wide horizon on the goat shows  I wish they gave the kids more options. Unfortunately, 4-H/FFA isn't about 'pets,' so when they have shows you have to expect that much as well.
I think they are great clubs, and so glad I got my kids into 4-H.

Surely there are boer breeding classes at your county fairs since your in TX. maybe you could get her a doe that she can show in the fairs, then she could keep her, and breed her?
Here in KY, they can use doe projects for 4-H up to 24 months old. See if your county has similar rules. If she got a doe kid this year, she could show her again next year, then breed her to a nice buck after that and kid her own 4-H kids and pray for a baby doe for the next year <that's what we do>. if she happens to not get a doe out of the breeding, sell the buckling to get her a young doe.
Just a thought. I totally understand if your not interested in getting boers since you raise Pygmy goats. But if you want your daughter to get into showing, and get her out doing stuff like that then it would be a really good benefit.

We don't have fancy show goats, and the only reason we even fool with registration papers is so our kids can show their does in 4-H, that's it. otherwise we'd not worry about the papered goats.

Good Luck I really hope your able to get your daughter into it. At least get her going to the meetings and see if she likes it.
The first time my kids showed it was a 'trial' that summer to make sure they liked it before we spent more $$ on a trailer, etc. THey absolutely love it


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## SugarBush Farms (Apr 19, 2012)

Here in SW Michigan there are boar, pygmy, angora and dairy breed classes, showmanship, and market classes.

In my county we have showmanship, dairy, and meat breed classes(we would add fiber and pygmy classes if we had them), obstacle, cart, and pack classes. Then we have a market class that the animals do NOT have to go through auction if ypu don't want them to. And a pet class that you can show pet wethers and non milking pet does(older does that don't get bred) the pet class is judged on the relationship between the kid and the goat.
They will actually have another person hold the goat at the opposite end of the arena of the kid and the kids call the goats. It is pretty much the first one to get their goat to come to them wins


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

here in NH It does not matter what breed you have. Some fairs say you can't sale your animals there. There are more dairy goats shown here


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## denana13 (Feb 25, 2013)

*michigan 4h*

Hi I'm from Michigan. Pygmys here are in the meat class. But you cam show does and do not have to sell them as they are breeding stock. I believe we have a class that is all market goats consisting of does or whethers but it is the class that are going to sell for market. They have to go in at a certain time to be weighed. You keep records of what you fed them. Then they are weighed again when fair starts. These animals are what are sold for Market.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Our county has an Open Boer show and a 4h/FFA meat goat show that ends in an auction at the end of the week. The county over from us does have different goat breeds at their Fair. Not sure how big your county is, but you could check neighboring counties for their rules and types of goat shows at their fair. 
Also, could check with the breed organization to see if they have any open show in your area for youth. Although your does may need to be registered for that. 
Even at our Open show for Boer goats they have to all be registered Boers. 
There have been people for years complaining at our fair that there are no dairy classes or breed classes for goats like there are for the cattle.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

interesting to see how much 4H varies in other states. I think our county offers every possible goat class - lol. Market goats do go to a 4H auction -- but the buyer can choose to keep them as breeding stock rather than slaughter. But we also have everything from pet wether classes, to driving (cart), pack, fiber and dairy. lol -- and that's even though any given year we maybe have 50 goats total at the show. 

I do like having separate classes for the registered and unregistered animals -- as well as having options other than just breed classes. Gives the kids who can't afford registered animals a chance to show against each other rather than always losing to kids whose parents can afford better stock. Kids absolutely can learn just as much raising an unregistered animal, and 4H should all about the learning/experience.


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