# Pooch test??? (changed from Pouch)



## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm not sure I am in the right forum or if I have the term correct but here goes anyways...

I bought a 5 month old buck for my Nigerian Dwarf Doe in Dec. He is now 8 months old. My doe is 10 months old. She came in heat every two weeks about forever and the buck didn't seem to interested. But not long ago he started peeing on his front legs. She has appeared to come in heat twice since and both times the buck pee'd on himself. I have not seen him try to mount her, but I was looking at pictures in here of two different posters who posted picture for the pouch test (??) for y'all to look at. I don't have any pictures, but was wondering just what you look for? She seems swollen just a little around the opening (vulva?) and it is starting to take on a slight doughnut shape. Does this mean anything? What should I look for and when does it usually show up?

Thank in advance!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

If he is starting to pee on himself... then he is starting to go into rut.....The does like that smell and that is what helps bring them in......give it some time....
Swelling of the Vulva is one sign ...she may flag her tail alot.....rubbing all over the buck...there may be a discharge to...they may be very verbal....and pee alot ...especially in front of the buck ....if she is in full heat ....she will try ....just about anything to get him to breed her....
Other does may mount her to...


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

I understand how she acts when in heat. I was asking about after she is bred. Isn't there a 'pouch' test? Or something that you look at? Her behind looks 'different' after she is pregnant, doesn't it? Of course the only place I have heard about that is here - so maybe I am all wet! :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Pouch test???*

we call it pooch test and all you need to do is post a picture of her "pooch" (rear, cha cha area) Must include anus and the tail needs to be up. :thumb:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Ok, I will see if I can get a picture, but in the meanwhile, can you tell me what you are looking for? Explain it to me, please... :greengrin: AND can you tell me how long before these signs show up?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Pouch test???*

usualy by the time they are 2-3 months along I can tell for sure. Sometimes at 1 month along but that is usualy withmy own goats.

Looking for the anus to be not tucked under the tail and for the vulva to be longer looking and wrinkly (sometimes). It isnt easy to explain


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

OH! Now that I have the wording right... :wink: I could do a search:

http://www.happytailzfarm.com/pooch_test_2.htm



> We have found a way through the years to be close to
> 100% accurate to tell if a doe is bred.. This test even baffled the vets from University of
> Florida when they came to our farm to train local vets on ultrasound. As the
> does were put into a milk stand, Rodney announced whether they were bred or
> ...


You were posting while I was Stacey!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

I have to agree with stacey... it is hard to explain...I still even with pics ...have a hard time...
but stacey is really good at it... a picture needs to be posted to be able to help with your question... :wink:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Ok I went and took a picture - I had to have someone hold her collar - she doesn't want anyone messing with her behind! lol. Of course maybe she is just in heat again, maybe?


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

This is an old post with pics that I think are very helpful to see viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6281&hilit=Before+and+after+pooch+test

Go down to fcnubian's post and she has pics a month apart showing the pooch and the difference.

Hope it helps.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Wow that was a BIG help! Thank you... The reason I started thinking maybe Cali was pregnant was because she looks different now than she has before and I remembered reading about the pooch test here... of course she is a young doe - 10 months old and obviously has not kidded before.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Pouch test???*

looks preggy to me :thumb:


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

You're welcome. Cali did an excellent job posing for the pic. :wink:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Thanks Stacy and everyone - now how far along is she? Can that be told this way too? Her heat cycles were very weird - sometimes lasting for several days. The last couple though, seemed to be very light and hardly noticeable.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Pouch test???*

no sorry I cant tell you that :shades:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

That's ok Stacey. I will just look when her last couple of heat cycle were that she really acted in heat and go from there. I'm glad she is finally bred! (fingers crossed!) cause if she didn't get bred soon I was going to wait until winter to bred her. I don't want winter babies!

Ok, my notes say: "02/13/09 - Cali is in heat again. She first showed signs on the 10th and the boys were very interested for a day or so. Today she still has a little clear discharge..."

And come to think of it, she hasn't been in heat since! (The 'boy's' being the buck and a wether) She never goes 3 weeks - ever! Oh I have my fingers soooo crossed! :hi5:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Pouch test???*

I would go with that as the breeding date Count 150 days for a due date


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Should I count from the 10th or the 13th? Probably the 10th huh? By the 13th she was just about done. Oh! This is sooo exciting! :stars:


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Welcome to the hair pulling club. We have all been in this boat at one point or another and even when we do know, the does manage to fool us.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Now that I know the term 'pooch' instead of 'pouch', I did a search to see what others have said on here. I found this thread: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7531&p=95161&hilit=pooch#p95161

Now the reason I am showing this is because around 1/3/09 Cali looked just like that! It was a very 'strong' heat and the only time I had seem her in heat like that. The boys fought very bad that time also! The rest of the times she seemed to be in heat was not real clear like that heat cycle was and the boys tolerated each other ok. So could she have been bred in January and still show light signs of heat? After that cycle in January, she seemed to come into a light heat every 12 days (consistently).

My notes say: 02/01/09 - She seems to have a slight yellowish discharge, but Bieber (the buck) isn't real interested, although he is sniffing her.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

*Re: Pouch test???*

Here is an update of her behind picture take today. She was holding her tail naturally in the 2nd picture. The boys act like she is in heat, but she doesn't have a discharge and she isn't much interested. She is being very voicey though.

This was on 3/7










And this one was today










So what ya think? She is getting a belly, but she may just be filling out and getting fatter... sure wish there was a way to know for sure. I guess when she drops some kids I will know! :shrug: :ROFL: When she was younger her udder or what will be her udder was just some flaps of skin and her teats were very short and flat. Now her udder fills my hand slightly and her teats are round instead of flat and they are longer. I keep thinking that is because she is older, but I am so inexperienced, I don't know! :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

She is like my Mia - not far along enough to be able to tell by udder.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

So far no more coming in heat and she is getting wide! She look preggo's to me!

Here she is today... she isn't fat, as a matter of fact she is a little thin. She seemed to really go off her feed for a while and lost some condition. She picked back up a few weeks ago. Her eyes are nice and pink. I can now see her teats. I thought they were black, but they are pink and have grown a lot. They do have a black plug in the ends. Her bag is just barely visible also but it is really hard to see anything for sure because she has a lot of black hair. In these pictures they still have there winter undercoat and it itches! Poor things. I brush them, but there is still lots to lose.




























So what ya think, huh, huh?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

she is so purty....  ......and coming right along ..very nicely....it is exciting to watch there bellies and udders grow...... :wink:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes! :wahoo: I am soooo excited! Only trouble is I don't know for sure how far along she is... :shrug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

As soon as her udder starts to fill it is most likely 1 month to go..... :wink: 

I can't tell that you are excited at all......LOL :wahoo: I am excited for you....... :leap:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Ya well... looky at that belly today! :wahoo: Man I hope she isn't just getting fat!!! Don't think so...










Btw we built a milking stand today! You can see it here:

http://bb.bbboy.net/thejourneyforum-vie ... &thread=11


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

didnt see the replies before - sorry

she does look to have a bit of a baby belly possibly.  

I would go on a 1/3/09 breeding date because you said she was in heat then and the boys were all over her right?


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes, but she was also in heat - lighter though - in February. So I figure it is somewhere between June 4 and July 13th...


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

And...

Today... her udder has really grown lately, it's more than a handful now!



















:ROFL:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

slow and steady


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Oh it's getting close! She has a thick white discharge. So can you tell me how long does that happen before she kids? I checked today, she still has her ligaments. But she seems more restless and lays down a lot more than normal.

Wow! Now that belly is impressive! :ROFL:










You can see her udder in this picture and some of the discharge. Thought I would share a picture of Daddy also - he is still quite cute! Ha, personally I think he is gorgeous! lol


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She still has a ways to go, she is likely losing her plug which is why you see the discharge, some does lose it anywhere from a few weeks to days before delivery. I do hope that you have a nice quiet and separate place for her to kid in...even though daddy is a cutie, those pre delivery hormones will cause him to want to be a naughty boy and possibly hurt your mama to be unintentionally, she'll not want the attention he wants to give her while she's laboring. Looks like you are gonna get some flashy kids with that pairing as well....I just love black and white goaties


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks Liz. Actually we don't yet, but within the next couple of days my DH is going to make two stalls so she can be by herself when she has the kids. As far as I can tell she is due the 4th of June.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I was going to say something but Liz you beat me to it 

Glad you will have a nice safe place for her - thats so important. 

And be sure to keep her separate from him till you want her bred again (fall/winter) as she will be in heat 5-7 days after kidding and then once a month after that (nigierans cycle all year round).

Sounds like she was loosing her plug -- could be soon or it could be a month out. Each doe is different.

I hope you are journaling about this - it will make it easier next year


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

she does have a little ways to go......she certainly is big............ :shocked: :wink: :greengrin:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Well, I can only really guess when she got pregnant. Her cycles were very strange. We bought the buck 12/10/09 and he may have bred her then. I never saw him ever even try to ride her. So it is a guessing game. If he got her Dec 10th or a few days later, she would be due May 8th (today) or within a few days. I didn't think she got bred until just before I started this thread. But I think I was wrong. My DH better get right on the stall tomorrow!!! 

I understand about keeping them apart until I want to breed her again. They have a 1/3 of an acre fenced pasture. We are buying the fencing to separate it in just a few days. Then the doe and kids will have one side and the buck and the wether will have the other. 

Yes I am journaling this so I have a record, besides it is fun to go back and look at the pictures and see how far they/we have progressed... :clap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like you have the basis covered - lets just hope she holds off on the kidding till things are in place -- shh dont let her know you need her to wait lOL


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes! Seems these thing happen when you don't expect it. I thought I had at least a month before she was due. I hope that is still the case!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Yes! Seems these thing happen when you don't expect it


You couldn't say that ...any better.........your definitely... right on the button there... :wink:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

We did 'er! We got the stalls enclosed and the goats apart. We still have a few things to do, but to get them separated we used the gate for a door until my DH gets the door made. This will work for now. :clap: From front to rear Cali the doe, Bieber the buck, and Billy the wether... :lol:










The 'barn' is an old chicken house that was here when we moved here and hadn't had animals in it for many years. Someday maybe we can build something better, but for now - it works!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

would you look at that - looks good to me


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Well, the 4th has come and gone and NO kids yet... but she is acting very strange, not wanting to be bothered, breathing kinda hard, and her bottom is VERY poofy! So she will probably pop soon. Then again maybe she got preggo after I thought she did. I can feel the babies so I know she is preggo and not just fat. I say that because I had a doe that was supposed to have been breed before I got her, we waited and waited and she looked VERY pregnant, but we finally called the vet. He came out and checked and all she was was fat! :ROFL:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

When you notice the "poofy" bottom, she's likely just a few days away....hmmm, now figuring the 4th was her duie date was that for 145 or 150 days?
If it was 145 then she could still hold out another week.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks liz for that bit of information. That sets my mind at ease a bit. I don't know if the date was 145 or 150 days. I used a gestation calculator from Fias Co farm. On top of it I really don't know when she was bred because I never saw the buck mount her. I am doing some guessing from the time she had a strong heat and she had what looked like semen dripping from her. But from the way she is acting I'd say it is pretty darn close to correct.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

FiasCo farm calculator is for 150 days....if you went by the day you saw the discharge then I'm confident in saying that she'll likely go before Sunday. Has her udder gotten bigger?

If she had a 5 day heat un noticed by you but the buck got her then, she'd be on 146 now and can deliver up to 155 days...my minis have never gone beyond 153.


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Her udder got bigger a few weeks ago, but I really haven't seem much change since... Sunday huh? Kewl I will send this to my DH!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats IF she didn't have the 5 day heat! Now don't hold me to it :ROFL: 

Pygmy udders are a lot different than dairy udders...most will stay close to the body but will get fuller and sometimes even hard feeling when they deliver.


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

I am not sure I get the pooch test but I like to watch for the white discharge to know when they have been bred. Then I watch the right side. After that the utter and the tail set etc but in the end it is never when you think it will be just when they feel like it so I gave up. I just know when about, "any day now" :roll: :hair: Then one day there are kids on the ground. I also watch the weather and can normally GUESS, yep this storm is good enough. Normally pretty right. HEHE


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Well Liz, actually I believe she DID have a 5 day heat! :hair: 

jdgray716, we have been having rain (very unusual for this time of year here) for close to a week and suppose to get some more off and on all this week... so what is the storm and kids about?


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

On this farm with every goat but one this year and last, the worse the weather the more the kids fell. HEHE It has to do with the gravitational pull and so on. In Hurricane weather in FL babies in people come a flyin out too. LOL


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Ah, I see. well it's not working! Still no kids! But then as I have said before she may have a couple weeks to go yet (although I find that hard to believe). She has a good appetite and she is doing fine so far...


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

When you know it is "any day now" that is when the weather plays its role. HEHE :wink:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Cali has went way past the June 4th due date. So I am going to shoot for the next possible due date. She got really 'poofy' about a week ago, but is now not quite so poofy.



> 02/13/09 - Cali is in heat again. She first showed signs on the 10th and the boys were very interested for a day or so. Today she still has a little clear discharge...


Which will make her due 07/10-13/09


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Ahhhhh, so you will keep your sanity until then. Good thing you keep those known heats in mind.


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