# A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airway



## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3609000038

From the above link:

In an effort to remove amniotic fluid from the airways, the puppy was "swung" by an experienced attendee in an arch from mid-abdomen height to knee height while cradled in both hands with the head stabilized".

Findings were consistent with high-velocity deceleration trauma ("shaken baby syndrome"). Traditional neonatal resuscitation via "swinging" is a dangerous and potentially lethal practice capable of inducing significant brain trauma in the canine neonate.

This swinging technique is old school. We no longer practice it at the clinics where I work. There's quite a bit of good scientific literature out there about this. Here are just a few quotes along with the links:

"Neonates should not be swung to clear airways as described in the veterinary literature, because of the potential for cerebral hemorrhage from concussion. "
http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/av ... ail/600770

"You can tilt the newborn so its head is down, but do not shake or swing
it."
http://www.extension.umn.edu/meatgoats/ ... andout.pdf


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Oh, that's scary! Thank you for the warning.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

wow! I usually just hold them up by their hind legs for a few seconds to help everything run out then let them down. That seems to help get any gunk out of their lungs/airways if they inhaled any. Good thing I don't swing them.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

:shocked: wow! Have to admit that this is done very commonly at small animal vets. It most likely is the best practice to "not" do it at all anymore due to the possibility of this risk. But...I have assisted in many a c-section delivery and all pups did fine afterwards. However, I agree there is always one that it can harm.

In delivering goats, after reading this, I will not swing them :thumb: thank you for the advice.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

So hanging upside down by the hind legs is different to swinging?
I have always read to hold them upside down for a few seconds.
I have never done it as my first kidding is coming up, I would want to make sure I know what to do before doing it.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Jesse yes, hanging them upside down would be fine. Just hold them by the back legs and let them hang there for a bit. Also keep a bulb syringe on-hand so you can suck fluid from the nostrils and the back of the throat.

when you cup them in your hands and "swing" them up and down--this is where the brain can "slosh" around in the head. The swinging is done in a long arch formation and the centrifical force would move the internal organs around; thus forcing fluids out of the nose and mouth.

So avoid and "swinging" and you should do fine. Also having towels (warm if that is possible) to rub them and stimulate the senses with is awesome as well! :thumb:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

BTW Jesse I like the name you chose for your goat ranch!! :clap:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Okay thanks for clearing that up. I now understand what it is meant by swinging. At first I thought the swinging was from taking them from the ground where they fell and swinging them upside down and letting them hang to clean the airways out. Actually swinging them (up and down ) would be too violent for a fragile newborn.

Also I have towels and a bulb syringe and a blow dryer as well. Along with a few things I need to buy (blue shop paper towels are more stout and I also need iodine and clamps) .So I should be all set and ready for my first doe that is due in 2 weeks.

Glads you like my herd name. It seems to fit our area due to the fact that it is always windy, lol.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Wow.... :shocked: that is something good to know ..thanks for sharing with us.... :thumb:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Never thought of that technique being similar to an effect of shaken baby syndrome but makes sense! Thank you for posting. I will not be swinging kids now either!!!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Just as an FYI Jesse it is good to hold the kid just above the hocks (closer to their bum) so they don't slip out of your hands. If you hold too close to their feet, they are so slippery it is hard to get a good hold and it is easier to drop them.


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Thanks for reading this with an open mind! I hesitated to post it because some people can get defensive when they learn the old way may no longer be best practice. I am a firm believer in the questioning conventional wisdom as a means to better science especially when it comes to medicine.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

I also like to find out what is the best way to do things. It is aslways better to learn it before hand rather than trial and error. Thanks again for sharing!

Thanks for the tip ptgoats..I will remember that.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Good to know. :thumb: I've never done it...If i'm there during kidding I just wipe the noses off really well and have never had a problem. :shrug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*



> Thanks for reading this with an open mind! I hesitated to post it because some people can get defensive when they learn the old way may no longer be best practice. I am a firm believer in the questioning conventional wisdom as a means to better science especially when it comes to medicine.


 :wink: :thumb:


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Thanks for posting that. I wouldn't have ever dared to swing a kid, they are so darn slippery lol. But I always do hang them upside down, usually pick them up and put them in front of mom for her to clean off. 
I do have to say I have seen puppies swung before yikes! This was years ago at a vet hospital when I was doing my internship, a boxer had a c section and the techs were swinging all the puppies. This was something they taught us to do in college too.. wonder if they are still teaching that??


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

well I don't know what they are teaching them in vet school but I work for a very fairly progressive veterinary clinc and we do swing the pups after they emerge from a c-section birth. However....we dont just swing them all around nilly willy--lol!!! We hold the pup in our cupped hands w/the head through a hole made by our thumbs (so the sholders can not slip out-or then they would go flying lol) and we arc them from the waist down to our knees and back up again. We do it methodically and w/no jerky movements but I bet it still does "slosh" the newborns brain around. It would be the equivalent of being spun as an amusement park side spins you. We only swing them like this two or three times; just to clear the passages.

The reason for this is that w/a c-section the fluids are not forced out by normal "squeezing" that takes place as they travel the birth canal. On a regular delivery I don't think there would be much need to swing anything at all as the fluids should be normally expelled. Sucking w/a bulb syringe would always be a good idea though.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

That makes sense.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Good to hear... the other day when Bonnie had her two.. my first thought WAS about swinging the newborn (I had read that somewhere) but I began by just wiping the mouth/nose clear and I could tell she was breathing fine without any other help. Glad to hear the updated info!


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

They used to tell people to swing "unresponsive" newborn lambs like that, too. Then a few people mentioned that you can get a lamb to sneeze by tickling its nose with a straw, and it will clear its own air passages. I can see how it might be an issue after a caesarian or a very difficult kidding or lambing -- if all you did was tickle the nose and the lamb or kid did not revive, people would think you were not doing a proper job!

Sometimes techniques that are only intended for emergency or "last chance" efforts become popular -- people want to make sure they didn't skip something important -- and then everybody finds themselves pressured to do it. All the time. Good to hear why one should NOT do it, too.

I think that many of us would MUCH rather tickle a newborn's nose with a straw or leave well enough alone, than have to do that swinging thing (with lambs, they used to tell you to make sure nothing was in front or behind you, and to give it a good swing while clutching the hocks). When you find yourself in a do-or-die situation, though, you sometimes might have to do things that would not be sensible or wise in everyday practice. This gives us something else to think about.

Thank you for sharing these articles.

Chris


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*



Squires said:


> They used to tell people to swing "unresponsive" newborn lambs like that, too. Then a few people mentioned that you can get a lamb to sneeze by tickling its nose with a straw, and it will clear its own air passages. I can see how it might be an issue after a caesarian or a very difficult kidding or lambing -- if all you did was tickle the nose and the lamb or kid did not revive, people would think you were not doing a proper job!
> 
> Sometimes techniques that are only intended for emergency or "last chance" efforts become popular -- people want to make sure they didn't skip something important -- and then everybody finds themselves pressured to do it. All the time. Good to hear why one should NOT do it, too.
> 
> ...


agree 100%

in a normal birth I would not swing but Ive done it when kids were just about none responsive and were stuck for hours in the birth canal. Saved a kids life and you should have seen the gunk that came out it was A LOT. To me it was worth the risk at that moment and the kid was fine.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Gack! Thank you for posting this. My "mentor" is apparently old school because she told me that she swings her babies. I've got kids coming soon, so I'm VERY thankful for the updated advice!


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

We don't do it even with C-sections because the risk is too great. We do all the other techniques... a needle poke to the nose works really well BTW. And if nothing else works we breath for them either with an endotracheal tube or using the plain old mouth to snout method. There is really is NO reason to risk cerebral hemorrhage when you have alternatives and rescue breathing works. When you do rescue breathing you clear the airway by pushing the goo into the lungs but they can survive this and this is a better alternative to death or brain injury. You can use a CPR pocket shield which is a piece of vinyl with a one way valve if you're worried about zoonotic diseases. You can order them online from the american red cross.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

Good to know.. what is natural works best. I would have never tho't to swing a kid until I read that people do that. I think in a panic I might just blow in their face but I would have never tho't to swing a kid until I read that people do that to help. Hmm. good to know


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

I have done it as a last resort and I was pretty aggressive in my swinging. My husband asked if it would harm the goat but if I didn't she would have died anyhow. I think like anything -depending on the cicumstance and using your own discretion is appropriate.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

I had a baby born still, and I didn't try anything. Next time I'll try some of these suggestions, SHORT of swinging. haha

What if you sorta jiggle the baby while holding it upside down? you know, not a real motion more of a shake to help dislodge mucus or liquid? do you think it would have the same affect as swinging?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*

I am a supporter of swinging, and always will be.

HOWEVER - I dont mean to swing every kid that is born, routinely. I had no idea that people did that.

I will swing a newborn if, after I have rubbed it down vigorously with a rough towel or a handful of hay, and I've poked it in the nose or between the nostrils with a needle or a bit of hay, IF after all of that the kid is STILL UNRESPONSIVE

then I will hold it by the back legs and give a gentle swing back and forth then put the kid down.

I have saved several this way, they were unresponsive to all the other methods but when I swung them a big glob of goop came out and then they were responsive. At which point I continue with the other methods to really get them going.

In a normal birth I just wipe goop off their mouth and nostrils and leave them to it.


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*



DavyHollow said:


> I had a baby born still, and I didn't try anything. Next time I'll try some of these suggestions, SHORT of swinging. haha
> 
> What if you sorta jiggle the baby while holding it upside down? you know, not a real motion more of a shake to help dislodge mucus or liquid? do you think it would have the same affect as swinging?


No, suspending them by their legs won't cause cerebral hemorrhage. You're basically just using gravity. I don't see the need to jiggle but I doubt there's any risk accept for the spine. The traditional swing is much more forceful and uses centrifugal force to try and get the goo to shoot out . Think of a ketchup bottle and the force it takes sometimes. This is what causes the brain to slam against the skull and bleed.


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: A very good reason not to swing kids to clear their airw*



keren said:


> I am a supporter of swinging, and always will be.
> 
> HOWEVER - I dont mean to swing every kid that is born, routinely. I had no idea that people did that.
> 
> ...


Karen, I don't think the swing you're describing is that forceful. A "gentle swing back and fourth" is not what was described in the literature. I wish I could post the youtube video I watched recently where both kids were swung (or flung) in a manner that could have caused serious damage.


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