# Controlling agressive behavior



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

I have 3 rescues. Precious is about 1 year old. Little One is about the same age as Precious, but she is a runt and more than 1/2 the size of Precious. My newest addition Billy Bob is about 3 months and just starting to regain his strength. 

I nursed Precious back to health & got Little One about 3 weeks later. Precious had to be watched constantly to stop her from trying to kill Little One, before Little became strong enough and fast enough to keep out of her way. They played and slept together and all in all got along well together.

Billy Bob is my newest rescue and I can't trust Precious anywhere near him. She attacks him without warning and for no reason. She is so vicious in her attacks on him I am afraid she is going to really hurt him. 

I want them to get along together as a herd. Now that the word is out that there is someone willing to nurse their sick and injured goats for free, I am sure I will have more drop offs to my door, and I want the sick and frail ones to be safe while recovering. 

Why is she so aggressive and how do I control this behavior? 

Thanks for any and all advice.

Linda the newbie Goat Nurse.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like Precious is your herd queen, and any new member of the herd will be take the brunt of her wanting to keep her established herd status.

How old is Billy Bob? If he's just a few weeks old, it may be best to house him separate but where they can see, smell and touch each other....such as a separating fence in an area of the main pen until he's stronger.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yep she is showing him who is boss, when ever I get a new goat they fight like cats and dogs, but i do just leave them be and after about a week they act like they knew each other all their life. BUT How is she with the one that she has been with for a while?? If she is still mean to her she might just be down right mean. I have HAD 2 of these, the first I loved her and did everything I could think of to make her stop being a brat, sold both and was the smartest thing I did, that first on that I liked so much ended up killing 2 kids at her new home, then was sold again. If thats what she is like, just mean, I dont have any advise since I will not take the chance of them making other does abort.


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

liz said:


> How old is Billy Bob?


Billy Bob is only about 3 months. I have had him for about 3 weeks and he is getting stronger but he is still skinny. He is a loner because he was so abused where he came from. I hate to see him by himself all the time, but I don't want him being beat up all the time either.

Precious has become a big brat. She was horribly abused, and a mere skeleton when I took her in. I think her behavior is learned but I need her not to be so rough with the littler ones.

She is not mean with Little One, but she will chase her every now and again. How long will it take for the pecking order to be established and everyone getting along with each other?


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Well...at 3 months, getting his strength and health back are important, is he wethered? If not, I'd see about having it done and possibly putting Little in with him as a buddy, leave Precious to her own devices while Billy bonds with Little


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

I definitely would like to wether Billy Bob, but I don't know of anyone in the area that knows how to do this. I am going to try the Animal Shelter. It has to be done humanely and with the least amount of discomfort for him.


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

Will they be able to work it out and live together peacefully or will I have to keep Precious isolated from the other goats? I would like to have a happy and loving family grouping.

The crazy thing is Bill*y *Bob, who is very much the loner, grazes way away from the other two, he seems to like being around Caleb my Rhodesian Ridgeback. Caleb plays the role of the grandfather babysitter. He like to lie out in the sun positioned between the two groupings keeping his eye on the Homestead. I have two Ridgies, Nia and Caleb, they get along well with the goats, though they have to keep a heads up around Precious because she will make a go at them every once in a while, but they think it is a game, so she quickly gives up on trying to bully them.

I just would like to have one big happy family. Just need some advice on how to make that happen.

Thanks to those that have taken the time to share their experiences and knowledge. I am extremely grateful.

Linda 
Goat Nurse in Training


----------



## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Banding a billy to neuter him is really easy and requires very little in the way of equipment. Discomfort for a couple days, but most don't make all that much of a fuss about it.

YouTube videos abound showing the procedure.

Is your aggressive doe horned or polled? If horned, they can be banded to make her much less dangerous to the others as well. OR, the tennis ball route!

Bob


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I've seen the tennis ball route for it's ease of use. Agreed the you tube videos on banding are good. Yes there is a pecking order, and I wouldn't put anyone weak (until they're healthy) with herd queen. They can't defend themselves and it adds more stress to one who is weak or recovering.


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

I separated Queen Precious today and she went berserk. She cried and knocked the crates out of the kennel. She threw a full blown temper tantrum. 

Imagine my surprise when the Billy Bob and Little One came and consoled her. Nuzzling her around her face and lying close to her. After about six hours I let her loose and they all went off browsing like they have been together for years.

They looked like the herd I wished for them to be. I know this will probably be short lived. Once she forgets about her short incarceration, she will most likely go back to being the bully. 

I am truly curios about how they behave tomorrow.


----------



## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Unless you want the girls pregnant, I would suggest separating Billy quickly. Do your dogs stay outside? If so, pen them with Billy until you wether him or keep him for a buck. The dogs and him will become friends and you won't have to worry about unwanted pregnancy or the bullying. If you don't wether and keep them together, he will become more aggressive as he goes into rut whenever the does are in heat. And if the does are pygmies or nigerians they will go into heat every month. You don't want a buck to continually go into rut as it shortens his lifespan.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree about the wethering, but disagree about the dogs. Domestic dogs are the #1 predators of goats.


----------



## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Sounds like you got yourself a schizophrenic goat!


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

One thing that has worked well for me is to put a bell on the bully. It lets the other goats know that she's coming so they can scatter. They will normally start getting along. Soon these three will be picking on the next newcomer.


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

Poor Billy Bob only has about 30 more days before he will have to go to a new home. I don't want my girls kidding just yet and I don't have anyone to do the deed for the little fellow, so I am left with little to no choice. 

Not sure about banding. read it is banned in some places. Some say it is a cruel and inhumane way to wether a goat. I have to research a bit more,


----------



## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

GoatNurse said:


> Poor Billy Bob only has about 30 more days before he will have to go to a new home. I don't want my girls kidding just yet and I don't have anyone to do the deed for the little fellow, so I am left with little to no choice.
> 
> Not sure about banding. read it is banned in some places. Some say it is a cruel and inhumane way to wether a goat. I have to research a bit more,


I'd really be interested to see a link to the "banned, cruel, inhumane link.

Bob


----------



## dixiegirl3179 (Jan 20, 2010)

Where are you located? You don't have any large animal vets around you?


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

Bob,
I don't know enough about goats to even know what I don't know. 

I am extremely grateful for everyone that takes one second of their valuable time to share their knowledge and experience. I know that people have varying opinions and what works for one person may not work for another.

The statement about banding I got from a sister website. If you really want the link, I will send it to you. I am constantly looking for information that is useful, so if people don't agree on a matter I still learn from both of them. 
Thanks to all.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I almost didn't band because Fias Co Farm had said it was cruel. We ordered the burdizzo, but it was on backorder, and it didn't come in time. They were older now and we needed them fixed ASAP, so we canceled the burdizzo order and got the bander. After banding myself, I feel it is not inhumane. They did cry, but we gave them pain relief and banded them at night, so they slept the worst of it off. The burdizzo is a great method but I don't feel it will work for us because it can take months to see if it was successful, and our wethers and does live together (Nigerian Dwarves are fertile little creatures :laugh: )


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

GoatNurse said:


> Not sure about banding. read it is banned in some places. Some say it is a cruel and inhumane way to wether a goat. I have to research a bit more,


 That is so NOT ture. It is very easy and my boys fuss for a few minutes.

I would say dehorning is inhumane over banding them. If you like him, it is so easy to band him. If you have a vet around they will do it or call a person that has cattle. You would just need a smaller band.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Yes, disbudding is MUCH harder. I wouldn't call it cruel if done as quickly as possible for the right reasons, but banding is much, much easier.


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

Sweet Goats,
Thanks for the info. So hows does the banding work? I know of course that the blood flow is cut off to the testicles causing them to atrophy and cease to produce semen, but how long does it take and how long does it hurt? Are there any ill effects? 

I hate hurting them and I am having a hard enough time trying to get their badly damaged hooves into some halfway to normal condition. I don't want them to think that I am the one to run from because I am the bringer of pain and discomfort. 

I want to do what is right by my poor little ones. It is not their fault they have a newbie as a caregiver. I just hope that I turn out to be a fast learner.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

With banding -- make sure both testicles are below the bands. Do not put the band right up to the tummy, just make sure the testicles are below it and leave a little skin between the band and the tummy. How they react differs with each goat and with their age. I gave mine a drench of Ow-Eze and did it at night. They cried on and off for a half and hour, then fell asleep. The next morning, they were a little ouchy, but okay. It was hard, but it has less risk than surgical, and there isn't the expense or wondering if it worked as with the burdizzo (I wouldn't want to have to do it again!)


----------



## GoatNurse (Dec 16, 2012)

dixiegirl3179 said:


> Where are you located? You don't have any large animal vets around you?


I live in "horse country". The few livery stores we have locally is all about horses. Our local Publix has more items for goats than our Red Barn. I have called every local vet, only to find that they very quickly let you know they don't tend to goats. I was given the cell phone for a person that is suppose to come to you, he has no physical business location, but several messages have been left, with no response.

I am totally winging it. Lots of luck, a little medical expertise with two legged creatures, the internet and God's tender mercies, are the only things that I have to go on. I am learning something new and beneficial every day. I just hate the thought that my little one may suffer or come to harm due to my ignorance. I am fully aware that life is full of challenges and I won't beat them all, but the more I know about what I am doing the better my chance of staying in the race.

Though it may not be perfect and with some things even controversial, the internet is my best chance of getting it right at this time. That is why I am so grateful for every single post someone has taken the time to share.


----------



## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

Sometimes with raising animals, particularly livestock, we need to do things that are painful with eyes towards the animals well being in the future. While you baby boy doesn't seem like it now, he will be one stinky urine soaked blubbering guy with ONE thing on his mind come next fall. Bucks are not pets... in my mind, the responsible and humane thing to do would be to have him fixed by which ever method. The truth is the people that would take wonderful care of an intact male, would not want just any buck. If you are considering selling him, please still consider wethering him. Wethered, he can be a pet for the rest of his life. And honestly, each method is painful for a time, but it is worth it. Thankfully goats are forgiving creatures. Especially when the "bringer of food" is involved


----------



## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

GoatNurse said:


> I definitely would like to wether Billy Bob, but I don't know of anyone in the area that knows how to do this. I am going to try the Animal Shelter. It has to be done humanely and with the least amount of discomfort for him.


What about doing the banding method to castrate him? 
It happens naturally over a coupple of weeks
Never mind.. I thought I was on the last page and didn't see everyone talking about it... sorry!


----------



## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

With what it sounds like you need to stick around here!!! Some one always knows the answer to anything!!! 
My vet isn't the best so I come here for anything and everything haha

And on the banding iv never had a problem with it you can normally buy a bander and some bands at tsc or a feed store or something
I would get someone to help though one persion hold the goat and the other put the band on
Bandstand are relatively inexpencive
It said to do 2 bands but web always used one Maby it would happen faster with 2 *shrugs*


----------

