# Newbie with a BIG favor to ask :)



## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

Hello everyone! I need some help from all of you. I'm about to get my first goats and I'm SUPER excited. I've been reading and researching on the internet and in any books I can get my hands on. Since spring will not come up here in the north, I still don't have my fencing up, but hopefully soon.

I will be getting three Pygmys and a Nubian. I've found a donkey that I'm thinking about buying...I've heard they are good protectors and companions.

So, here's what I need. There is too much information. I'm completely overwhelmed. I would love a list of things I need, starting with the most important, and ending with what you would consider an "extra"

Thanks so much!


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## EmmaDipstik (Sep 22, 2011)

Did you get them tested for CL and CAE? (Guys I swear I'm not obsessed with this question! :laugh 

A good fence is a must! Do you have a good place planned out where you can purchase hay, feed and supplies? Have you built a good shelter? Buckets, feed pans, water troughs? Also have some CD&T medicine on hand for an annual shot. Is there an easy way to transport water to their pen?

Most of all make sure they're tested for CL, and CAE.


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

I do not have them in my possession yet, but when I do, how do I go about testing? 

I have a building for their shelter and as soon as the ground thaws I will be putting up cattle panels. The breeder I'm getting my pygmys from says they never separate their does and bucks...but from what I've read everywhere, I'm not sure about this??? I'm buying two girls and a boy and they will be a little over two months old. Do you guys recommend separating the buckling?

A good friend of mine has cattle so I will be buying my hay from him. This is where I get a little confused. I know they get hay....and grain. But what type of grain? I don't think that's the same as "pellets", right? I think I can get most of what I need at our local TSC.

Also, I'm not sure what I should use to feed hay out of. 

I will be hauling water across the yard. Not the easiest thing, but not much of a choice there unfortunately.

Oh and thanks for the reply!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You have to be careful with a donkey. Not all donkey are good for guarding. You would want to be sure he/she is an actual guard donkey.

Grain and pellets are usually interchangeable. Buy a good goat feed. Something specifically for goats. You will also want a good goat mineral to put out free choice.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

banderson1179 said:


> Hello everyone! I need some help from all of you. I'm about to get my first goats and I'm SUPER excited. I've been reading and researching on the internet and in any books I can get my hands on. Since spring will not come up here in the north, I still don't have my fencing up, but hopefully soon.
> 
> I will be getting three Pygmys and a Nubian. I've found a donkey that I'm thinking about buying...I've heard they are good protectors and companions.
> 
> ...


Careful about the donkey, they can be great, but they can also kill your goats. It has to be the right donkey, raised in the right environment, and used to goats.

Welcome to the goat spot!!


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thank you!! So, how would I know if said donkey would be a good match? We live on a farm and I'm super paranoid about stray dogs and coyotes. 

Also, did you guys build a hay feeder or buy one?


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## sbrouth (Apr 8, 2013)

A good thing to do is contact and work with your local county livestock agent through Cooperative Extension. Often you will find they are very helpful and often have educational workshops on such topics. I work for Cooperative Extension and we are planning a field day on "Herd Health and Management Basics." Good luck.


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## sbrouth (Apr 8, 2013)

And correct on the donkey I have come across more that do not do well with goats than those that do. I suggest guardian dogs!!!


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

I have two chocolate labs now, so I can't get another dog. My dogs tend to dislike other animals, so I'm not sure if they will make good guardians haha. BUt hopefully they will do well with the new kids so I don't have to use the shock collar


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## Erik_L (Nov 27, 2012)

banderson1179 said:


> I will be hauling water across the yard. Not the easiest thing, but not much of a choice there unfortunately.


Don't think you're alone in this chore. I'll be doing the same when mine come to their new home.

Erik_L (2 Boer & 1 Spanish/Boer) from his iPhone using GoatSpot.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Be very careful with your dogs and new goats- the smell of a goat, their noises and mannerisms all scream prey to dogs! The nicest dog in the world
will attack and kill a goat- unless they are trained not to. Please don't trust your dogs until you are very sure they are not going to kill your goats. 
The shock collar will not prevent them from chasing and bringing down the goats, especially the pigmies! (I know, I have tried to stop a dog from chasing deer,
the shock collar did nothing! The adrenaline over comes the pain!)


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

Goats Rock said:


> Be very careful with your dogs and new goats- the smell of a goat, their noises and mannerisms all scream prey to dogs! The nicest dog in the world
> will attack and kill a goat- unless they are trained not to. Please don't trust your dogs until you are very sure they are not going to kill your goats.
> The shock collar will not prevent them from chasing and bringing down the goats, especially the pigmies!  (I know, I have tried to stop a dog from chasing deer,
> the shock collar did nothing! The adrenaline over comes the pain!)


I'm very worried about this. Any advice?


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Are they "typical" well bred labs? Are they trained to retrieve? My dogs just love the goats, but, I would not leave them out alone with them. Please, wait to get a guardian...I have heard bad things about donkeys...do you have a shelter that you can put them up in at night? Will they be close to the house or far away? 

Thankfully, we don't have dogs running loose here. But, my Alpaca female has decided she is the guardian of the Nigerian babies. She inspects everyone that comes in to see HER babies. I saw her herding them in to the pen the other day (after I moved their mothers out), and I didn't see anything, until DH pointed out the giant hawk patrolling overhead. Good girl, Jenny!


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

Di said:


> Are they "typical" well bred labs? Are they trained to retrieve? My dogs just love the goats, but, I would not leave them out alone with them. Please, wait to get a guardian...I have heard bad things about donkeys...do you have a shelter that you can put them up in at night? Will they be close to the house or far away?
> 
> Thankfully, we don't have dogs running loose here. But, my Alpaca female has decided she is the guardian of the Nigerian babies. She inspects everyone that comes in to see HER babies. I saw her herding them in to the pen the other day (after I moved their mothers out), and I didn't see anything, until DH pointed out the giant hawk patrolling overhead. Good girl, Jenny!


One of the labs is full bred and the other is a mutt lab haha. They are not trained to retrieve. This is what worries me...we are not able to keep farm cats because my dogs chase and kill them. I honestly do not know if they were "playing" or were hunting and was not going to try and bring a cat around again.

I have a building where I will be able to put them in and lock door at night...is that what you would recommend? I'm putting up 50 inch cattle panels, so my dogs will not be able to get to the goats. I really think that they dogs will harass them for a big, but will get bored when they are not able to "play" with them.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes, until you find out what kind of "predators" you have lurking around, I would keep them in. We've had a few members have to deal with dogs that have been aggressive toward their goats. We would not have patience with "roving packs of dogs" here, they would be quickly "dispatched" if you know what I mean.

I have some mini horses (very canine aggressive), they are ok with the larger goats. There was an accident early in our goat keeping that resulted in the death of a kid. I didn't see it...but...one of the horses was there and a dead kid. So, we keep the Nigerians and other kids away from them. However, I do keep the horses toward the back (near the woods), and the goats up front. DH saw a coyote back there near the woods, before the horses, haven't seen one since they've been back there.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

We have a really large mutt of a dog, and he's quite prey driven. He curious with my goats, but haven't tried anything since they're about the same size and our goats have their horns. My yearling doe has played head-butt with him a few times, and poked him in the face with her horns. He won't go too close to them after that. I think he thinks they're just a weird looking dog that he wants to make friends with now. But do supervise with your dogs for a while.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

no dont keep an intact buck with your does - I would get him a buddy and give him his own pen and shelter.

keep your dogs and goats in separate areas and dont let them roam together unless you are there and are sure to be able to control the dog incase they decide to be aggressive or even playful towards teh goats. NEver had problems with our dogs and goats. Dogs love to chase anythign that will run. Goats will run. So just be aware of that.

You can get your goats tested by pulling blood yourself (tutorials online) or having your vet do so. YOu can send blood samples to WADDL http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/forms.aspx


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## dezak91 (Feb 22, 2013)

It's like anything else new to the dogs. Put the elec collar on them and " train" them properly. Make sure first that these little goats can't get through cattle panels. Sometimes there tends to be a larges space between the rails. The elec collar is such a great tool when used correctly and allows you a hands off approach to the dog(s). Let them know right away what is expected and allowed with them. 

My shepherd will act like he wants to eat the goats when they are behind the fence but when they are out he is fine with them. On the other hand he is NEVER alone with them. Plus I have some dog haters that will head but the dogs which will cause the dog(s) to go after the goat. Can be ugly but you'll figure out who or what works for you.

I don't like running the bucks and does together. I breed a specific time of year and I like to know the due dates on my girls. A good shelter with adequate ventilation is a must. Good quality hay and Minimal grain.... Not too much or you'll be in for some sick goats! Get grain just for goats, loose goat minerals (fed free choice) and of course water. Make sure right away to vaccinate them with CD&T and do that once a year afterwards. If they have never been vaccinated then give them 2cc now and then another 2cc in 30 days, then once a year after that. 

Enjoy!!


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Yes, with the cattle panels- I use them to make creep feeding stations for my Boer goats. So they can fit through the holes. They are 50 pounds now, and can still fit through the holes. Our cattle panels have 4x4 inch holes.

I would get the goats tested for CL and CAE BEFORE I purchased them. Make the final sale contingent on them being free of disease...You could offer to pay for the tests, and let the goats stay at the original owner's farm until the results come back.

If you don't want your does bred too early- keep the buckling away. He will be stronger and more determined to get to your does, so keep that in mind for fencing. Also, they can breed through shared fence lines, so there should always be space between their fences.

I agree with everything else on here about grain and CD/T vaccinations. You will also need a good wormer. Inquire about the types of worms you have in your area, and get a wormer suitable for your area.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

all sound advice. as for the donkey issue...you will want one who has already proven himself...you do not want a intacked jack...gelded or jenny but again..he needs to have proven himself to be trust worthy..

Buck will need a wether buddy and housed separably...and if I remember the original post..he is Nubain and the girls are Pygmy...you should not breed them...he is too big and babies will be too big and could end badly...you can breed a small breed buck to a large breed doe..but should not do it the other way...so if you have not plans on breeding them then you can wether the nubian and he can run with the girls..

Basic needs are covered it looks like..shelter , pen (soon), food hay and water..loose mineral and baking soda both free choice
CD&T wormer and a few must keep on hand are : CD ANTITOXIN: THIAMINE; FORTIFIED B COMPLEX and WORMER OF CHOICE 
You will also need something for cocci treatment..( I avoid Corid!)
As for supplies
Hoof trimmers
brush
needles ( both 18 and 20 G) ( 1/2 -3/4 inch)
syringe ( both 3 cc and 12 cc)
drenching gun
feeders to hold loose mineral and loose baking soda
feeder for feed ( never feed on ground)
hay basket

As for your dogs...I would never leave them alone with the goats, I would keep them leased as they get to know each other...
consider a double fence...after you put up you fence add a second panel a few feet away so head access is not possible.... or wrap the goat pen in small 2x4 wired along the bottom half so goats cannot stick their head out to be bit off . Also consider even after all your efforts dog and goats may not live together safely.. we moved from city life with city Boxers..when we made the choice to farm with animals we also made the choice to rehome our Boxers if need be..ended up a necessary thing..as sad a it was..the safety for both were at stake...

good luck and enjoy...


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks everyone for all the good info! I finally feel like I'm comfortable bringing them home soon.

I decided to wait until next year to purchase a buck, so I will have two girl pygmys and a girl Nubian. When they are old enough to be bred I will probably get a Pygmy buck.

The owner of the donkey said he has been house with goats and is now house with a bunch of sheep, but I'm still scared haha. I think I will just lock them in their house at night and see how that goes.

Once again, thank you!!!


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## Tapsmom (Sep 20, 2011)

The only other thing I would make sure of is the hay quality. If you are buying from a friend that has cows the hay may not be of a good quality.  I know our local hay farmer feeds the hay that others won't eat to his Oxen. is Oxen are healthy..but they have more stomachs and aren't producing milk or growing  The first batch of hay I ordered when I brought my horse home with my goats was rather dry, stick like and the goats weren't very keen on it and my horse would hardly touch it. The farmer had delivered what he called "goat Hay". He exchanged it for me and gave me some nice second cutting that all the critters were quite happy with.


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## banderson1179 (Apr 19, 2013)

How do I know the hay is good quality?


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I hate to be a debbie downer but if you plan to test your goats for CL and CAE AFTER you buy them, you're asking for nothing but grief. I wouldn't put a goat anywhere near my property without current tests done FIRST.

If you are a goat fancier, rather than a professional breeder, facing the decision to either cull an animal due to positive tests or making the decision to care for an animal you love with a lifelong debilitating condition is not to be taken lightly. CAE is forever and so is CL. They are pernicious and sad to watch. Save yourself some heartache.


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