# What do you think of this AM alpine doe?



## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Going to look at a alpine doe sometime.
She is american and to me look pretty good.
Would just want some opinions.
She is: PATINA MAJIC HAT - A001460035 (AM Doe)
VG 89 and has lots of cherry-glen and rainbow colors
She is nice and level, long, tall, good brisket extension, good legs (I think).
Agree?
She is 4 years old but the picture is from when she is 3 years old.
pedigree- http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail. ... A001460035

The only thing I am not sure about is that her udder could be on the smaller side?
She also has her legs way back..which makes it hard to see the back of the udder. You can see the very back of her udder. A better pic would help.

What do you think?
Might consider buying her if you guys think she is a nice correct doe.
Not sure how much she is yet but I think she looks nice.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

Her comformation looks nice but I don't like her udder if that is all it is.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

That is kinda what I thought.
I wonder if she is dry in that pic?
could be I guess.
The lady didnt answer all my questions but I go to look at her tomorrow. I can ask questions then and see if her udder is the same. She is getting apraised on august 4th.
In her LA it says she has wide teats and those are quite small..so maybe she was dry when that was taken.
I hope to know more soon.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah you should see if she is dry. If not, I wouldn't buy her.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

She said that she "wasn't fully uddered up in that pic"..I guess that means it wasn't taken at 12 hrs fill. maybe only 2 hrs fill.
She said her udder is bigger this year.
She also said she "only feeds 4lbs of grain each goat per day"and with the hay she is feeding they all went down in production.
NY state had a really bad hay year. A lot of the hay was "burned" from the intense heat and is lower in nutrition.
Depending on when it was cut it is good though. My hay is good.
So looking like a definitely no for this girl, but I will still go look at her.
She said she is currently milking a bit less than a gallon in not ideal conditions


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She has a beautiful form but I'm not crazy about the size of her teats, being a full size dairy doe, I expect to see teats that are fitting to the doe...and hers aren't any bigger than my "little" girls


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

What was her previous LA score? That might give you a little more info.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Her previous score was 85 in 2010. 89 in 2011
The appraiser last year said she could score better this year..but who knows.

I went and looked at her and really like her. Too bad her udder isn't the greatest.
She is out of a AI buck, with another AI buck tucked in the back of her pedigree.
She said she wants $300. She said she has a semen tank with 10+ alpine bucks in there (french and american) and she said I could pick what buck I want and she would do it for $10 and 10-$15 for the semen.
So the kids could be a lot better.

She is really shiny and has an excellent coat. Very healthy looking.
I really like how stocky she is with lots of width to her rump and body.
Nice front end on her also. I got to see her walk around and she stays level while walking (where as my level doe is only truly level when standing still it seems).
You lightly touch her back and she immediately sets up and levels out more.
She has 2 GCH legs.
She kidded :kidred: :kidblue: in 2010
:kidblue: :kidblue: in 2011
and :kidred: :kidred: :kidred: in 2012

She is a really nice doe. She would definitely be better than my little stunted doe who never kidded (who I hope to sell). Just her udder is kinda small.
Teats are about 1 inch in diameter and are good sized for hand milking.
She is about a 1 gallon capacity doe. She said she would measure it out the next few days to see what she is giving.

One of the alpine bucks in the tank is "tempo"...I hear thats a good buck?
So if I got this doe I could get her AI'd fairly reasonable...with a 50% success rate.
She would at least be an excellent brood doe.

Still should not get her? Let me know what you think.

I didnt get a good udder pic. I just wish she had a better udder :sigh: 
Rear attachments are maybe a little low. Udder in general is small.
Edit: udder only has about 6hrs fill in it.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I like the doe for body. I wish she had a better udder though. Kinda disappointed.
She has like an FF's udder...


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## meluvgoats (Apr 19, 2012)

She looks good, I agree udder those look a bit FF.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Size of udder doesnt always correlate to how much milk is produced ... It just becomes a bit of a problem is showing. I guess you need to decide what your goals are ... Do you want to show or just for milking at home ... Is her yield enough for you ... does she represent an improvement on your current stock? sounds like she has been doing it a bit tough but is still healthy and doing a good job. the price and the LA sound good to me eslecially with a AI service included


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Although I do have 3 with good conformation I think this doe would rank first.
I like her body/conformation better. Rump is wide and long and level. Nice width throughout.
She would be a major improvement over the doe I am selling. Believe it or not I have a doe that has a smaller udder than this one. My Macy is kinda a brood doe. She produces 1 gallon at peak and maybe 1/2-3/4 now. She has really nice kids though and her daughter has a nice udder and produces over a gallon. I havnt the heart to sell her. She is also really stocky and her kids grow really fast. Macy has confo flaws but people (other local breeders and people at shows) like her for her stockiness and large front end/brisket.

So I think she could just about be my best doe for body and confo, but not best udder. Best udder in herd goes to Juna.
I was told by a local breeder that she would rather have a small but long lasting udder rather than one that would weaken with lactations. I was told by her owner that she predicts this girl last into old age without her udder failing.

I think if I got her I would keep her a few years and see how her daughters turn out from the AI buck. This girl got her first GCH leg as a dry yearling so kids could maybe do good in shows.

What do you think? 
I wish I had pics of her from this year, other than udder that is.
I like the does temperment also. Very patient, quiet, and affectionate.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

:leap: Look what I found.
This is her from a show ( I think last year).
Her udder looks good.
Maybe she wasnt milked as diligently so that her production dropped.
She probably could produce lots more than what she is if she was milking from day 1 after kidding every 12 hrs to keep production up.
I know this lady is really busy.
I think this picture changes things?
Pics looks like maybe only days or weeks after kidding though.
Edit: I just think that it looks like she has more capacity in this pic than the others.
I have never seen her udder full anyways...only half full or less.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I personally like the doe  Escutcheon on the doe could stand to be higher, but the attachment doesn't look bad. It probably looks better full (=


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

That is what I thought also. That it could stand to be higher.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I think overall she is really nice! and I thik her doelings could be an improvement!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Talked to the breeder today.

The pics I posted of her at the show is from the Syracuse NY show.
That is a very BIG show. Goats from up to 2-3+ hours away. Its a show not a fair.
She said she did okay but there was a lot of competition with the other alpines that were brought in.
The others had more capacity. So this girl would probably do good in the fairs and maybe 1-2 of the smaller shows.
She is going to get me pics of what she looks like with a full udder and a current side pic.
She said she starts out producing 8lbs (1 gallon) easy and probably peaks at 10-12lbs.
She said once I get her, and start feeding her my good hay, she should produce a gallon minimum or a little more.
They are only down on production as she is feeding round bales that aren't the greatest.

My parents (or actually just my mom) is really against this for some reason.
I really like the doe. My excuse is that I was selling Spirit for this girl. However I said that for the last goat (Piper).
Now I still have Spirit. So I need to sell her for sure, but moms perspective is that spirit already has a replacement and that this would be an addition. :sigh: :doh: I guess that is true though.
Or actually I can say that I sold Molly for High Society and sold Spirit for Majic hat, and piper is the addition? I didnt pay cash for piper...I just worked for her. Maybe that will work :laugh: 
So if I got her it will be hard talking her into it.
I have about 9 days till this girl is even available to buy (after LA) so have time to think.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Just my two cents.
I think this doe will help you improve your herd. 
She's coming from an outfit that has been doing the right things.
She's not their best doe, but people usually don't sell their best ones.
If you have to sell something to appease your Mom, do it.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

You're right.
This lady has been raising goats since 1980. 
Her sables are really nice. Lots of sundgau sables and good udders/confo.
This is her last alpine. She sold all of hers to focus on her sables.
She kept this doe as it was her favorite.
She calls her her "persnikity alpine", lol
In that pic from the show Hatti (as she is nick named) has her topline arched, ears out, and tail cranked.
She is mad because her owner isn't the one showing her.
Some kid was showing her and she was quite mad about it, kinda funny.

She said she can hold her till mid or late august and I told her there was an 85% chance I will buy her ;-) lol
She wants me to come to her place when they do LA. She is getting LA on her whole herd and a few other herds in the area.
So this will be a nice learning experience for me. At the same time I get to see how this doe appraises. 
LA is on the 5th. The show is on the 4th. I will be going to the show just to watch.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

I really like her and I think she'd be a great addition to your herd. She might not have the most capacious udder but I think if you breed wisely you could improve that in her daughters. Plus you have your really heavy milker (Juna, I think?) to make up for it. :laugh:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Lol
Yup, thats Juna. She is our only milker right now and with just using milk we have enough. If we went crazy and made everything that called for milk we wouldn't have enough. Macy is giving milk for bottles, she is out 2nd milker.
She has been giving 5 quarts a day and it is nearing fall.
That is without any pasture (been raining and I need to move the fence).
With pasture she bumps up to 5.5 or 6 quarts.
At peak she produces 2 gallons and she is a 6 yr old.
When I got her in May this year she gave 7.5 qts.
The difference in these 2 girls is one really pumped the milk and expired/weakened her attatchments by age 5...where as this girl could go on milking to 10 with good atatchments.

OM...I will have 5-6 milkers next year?
Cheese, butter, and dairy products I guess 
I also hope to feed a calf to raise for meat, which requires 2 milkers.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

I'd buy her because her conformation is _beautiful_! I think you can easily improve her milk lines in her kids. And besides, with a full udder she looks pretty good.


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