# 5 month old doe dragging back leg



## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I have a 6 month old doeling saanen named Iris. When she was around a month old, she got raked on her back end by one of our goats that had horns.

This caused some injury to Iris with surface scrapes and lost her hair. This happened on both her back legs from her hock to her hip. She seemed to recover from this ok.

She seems to have been ok up to about 2 weeks ago, but not as active as my other kids (we had 10 kids born this year). Now her back end is hunched down and she is sorta dragging one back leg. One leg is worse the the other. She is very careful about moving around. She does get around but it is obvious that she doesn't have the strength in her back end. 

For various reasons, we fell down on the job of giving selinium to our goats. We have started that up again. I dont use the shots but use the paste from Jeffers (I hate giving shots). 

We gave a does of Selinium to Iris about a week and half ago (about 2ml dose). We thought we saw immediate improvement in her gait and weakness in her back end.

We considered that it could be a thaimine deficiency my husband gave a thaimine shot. She seemed to get worse after that shot. We did that about 4 days ago. 

We gave her more selinium yesterday (another 2ml dose - the one listed for newborns). It says to use 4ml for adults monthly. I think I have seen some slight improvement in her when she is moving around. Not as hunched down maybe and maybe not dragging the back leg as much. Maybe picking it up slightly more. It is hard to quantify that.

The other thing I started was to use a coconut oil rub with oregeno oil over her back legs and up over her spine 2x a day. Rubbing it in, kinda giving her a massage. Trying to help circulation, inflamation.

I also started her on my vitamin mix. It is a mixture of ground rose hips (for vit c), nutritional yeast (b vitamins), diatomaceous earth (natural worming), ground flax seed and molasses. 

As anybody can tell, I want to use essential oils, and natural methods as much as I can. 

We dont know if this problem is connected to the injuries she got when she was younger, and have considered that it could have caused nerve damage.

Has anybody had any experience with this kind of a problem? Does anybody have any suggestions? 

I am not sure about how much selinium is too much and when the levels become toxic. Should I give her a bigger dose? I was going to give a 2ml dose maybe every 2 weeks. 

We have decided to not breed her until she is through this issue. We are going to wait till next year only if she has recovered from this.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im not sure if its the injury but my gut says no..she healed and was fine...and then this started...I would start with a few things...

temp? 101.5-103.5 is normal range
Check lower inner eye lids for color..you want to see deep pink to red color
feel her legs for any lumps
are you copper deficient?
do you have white tail deer in your area

I would give daily B complex and an extra vit E gel cap or cod liver oil to help the selenium work....As for Ess oil use...I would use immune boostering oils such as Frankincense and/or a protective blend such as On Guard. Lavender is very healing and soothing..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she never was as active after her injury, I do have to wonder if it is at least part of the cause.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would take her to the vet to get an xray done to see what is going on.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Definitely want to know if you live in White Tail Deer area due to the risk of Meningeal Worm which almost always first presents as loss of control in hind end. Does Iris have any spots where she is chewing fur/itching or circles of hair loss near her hips or spine?


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions. We live in SW Washington just up the hill from the Columbia River. There is no white tail deer - they range in eastern Washington. The deer we do have that cross our property on a regular basis is black tail deer. 

She on occassion seems to chew her fur and itch. And this seems be on her legs, not up by her hips or spine. She has no hair loss. 

I wonder if the black tail deer has transmitted something to her. The black tail deer do certainly wander our property. We have taken our goats for foraging and it would be over the same area. 

I should also mention that we have just moved back to our property with our goats late last year. The property has had for years had wandering elk and deer and the elk and deer used to bed down on our property at night time. This area seems to be a large hunting area for elk and deer. The hunters are always traveling to the logging roads past us to go hunting during hunting season. 

I do remember some occasions when we went out for foraging once that Iris got major itching session on her legs. This was before it got so hot here - about 2 months ago. 

Any suggestions on what to use for worming? I use diatomaceous earth all of the time. Would tobacco work? (My dad used that all of the time when I was young).


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am really wondering if this is a copper deficiency problem. 
We have high iron content in our well water with some sulfur smell. If we let the outside water stand out, it turns bright orange. Before we bleached our well, you could smell the sulfur when I was using the shower. We have a filter system on our house, but not on our outside water. For me, my water is virtually unusable without a filter system. For the 1st year I lived here, all of clothes turned orange. Also, before we put the filter system in, on a 1-10 measurement for hard water, ours measured at 17.

The reading I have been doing says that iron and sulfites can combine with copper to impair absorption. I think I have been able to eliminate goat polio and Listeriosis. The symptoms she has does not match these. The more I read about copper deficiency and knowing what we have in our water, I am leaning toward a copper deficiency. I am going to take her to the vet to have her blood levels tested, but the more I read about cooper deficiency, the more I think that is what this is.

She is not running a temperature. She is eating and eliminating normally. She is alert and not off of her feed. She is walking in a sternal recumbent position and seemed to get worse when I used a molasses mix. She is having a hard time holding her back end up and is seeming to have more difficulty even from yesterday.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. You probably do have a copper deficiency.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

This is just a thought……has she had any IM injections back there ?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We too have sulfur water...its gross....we have to copper our goats every 3 months and by the time its time to bolus again..they already show signs of needing copper...The good thing is it doesn't take long to see a difference in them once bolused...a few signs you can look for is also fish tail...fading color and the hair tips will hook, like they got too close to the fire. other causes are too much iron and some plants as well..I say give her some copper and see how she does...its 1 gram per 22#..you can buy pre-made capsules. Something else we are trying ( just got it in the mail today) is Replamin...a gel mineral....

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

She has had no injections in her back end. 

Right now I can go to the health food store in town and get copper supplements. I am going to go get that this morning as soon as they open. The information I found published by Washington University in St Louis said to give 8mg daily for a week, then titrate it down by 2 mg per week. Goat World said to use 80 mg daily of Copper Sulfate dissolved in water for 1 week. Dont have any copper bolus, but from what I understand on the copper wire, it is a slow release form of copper. I am going to order some, but am not going to wait on it to give to my baby. If it is a really a copper deficiency, I should see improvement immediately. I was going to try the copper supplement 8 mg daily until the copper bolus comes in. 

Thanks for everybody's help. I will post her progress.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I called the help listed on goat911 on goatworld. She said that the menogeal worm could very well be the cause, has caused a worm overload and has made her selinum and copper levels to plummet. Not only does the white tail deer carry the menogeal worm, but black tail deer does too. We have black tail deer and they have ranged all over our property. What I use for a wormer does not touch the menogeal worm. We are hauling her off the vet today.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Treatment for MW is safeguard..1 cc per 7#.for five days..ivomec injectable. .1 cc per 40# sub q and banamine 1 cc oer 100#. ..fingers crossed!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Neither Blacktail nor Mule deer can carry MG worm. They are dead end hosts the same as Goats. MG worm has never been seen NW of the Arizona area anyway. 

I would say no-see-um gnats or similar are attacking her.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Took her to the vet. He located a soft tissue injury in her spine. Took xrays. Put her on bamamine an anti-inflamitory. Gave her a shot when we were there. In the short time since that shot, she seems to be doing better. Moving around a little better, doesn't seem to be stooping as much. I was so far off it is scary.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Update on Iris.

She is doing much better, standing and moving around much more than she has in the last 3 days. She can now get up and stand on her own without assistance. Even though she remained her sweet self, she must have been hurting. 

We separated her from the herd and set up a place for her in my backyard so we could be much closer to her to watch and take care of her. When I said I wanted to bring her up by the house, my husbands immediate response was "NOT in our bedroom". 

The vet said this is recoverable from and her condition otherwise was real good. He went through all of the possibilities and ruled everything else out. The xrays they did showed no bone damage or displacement anywhere in her spine. He found the spot in her spine where she was hurting. Iris reacted when he touched it. The good thing was that she still had feeling in her back limbs. He did verify that we have never seen a case of the menogeal worm here and the black tail deer do not carry it. We have no idea how it happened, but it is a definite recent injury in the barnyard and not connected to the injury she got when she was less than a month old. 

I also talked with the vet about using oregano oil on her as an additional anti-inflammitory. He said that would be a good thing, it does use different pathways and would not interfere or react with the bamamine we are giving her. 

Carrol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

glad its figured out!!! and she is on the mend...


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Cathy, 
As you can imagine, I am ecstatic that she is on the mend. I am a worry wart and am constantly checking on her. I do appreciate everybody's help! :fireworks:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im a worry wart too...when we had several cases of pneumonia..we took temps on everyone twice a day and walked the herd a few time between that to see if everyone came up....a few friends give me a heard time about it...but I rather exaggerate our herd care then be slack and loose one ....and sleep??? when ones sick..I cant hardly sleep...I go over in my head all the things that can be wrong and how to deal with them...then i get up and try something lol....flash light and dogs in tow...Im a mess of a goat owner!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad you have an answer and getting her help. Hope for a good recovery.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Update on Iris.
This her 2nd day on the injections the vet gave us to use. We have seen that she has acquired some function back, but she is still having problems with the use of her back legs. I am afraid that the damage is too great and she will never regain her full function back. Only time will tell, but we realize she may never fully recover from this. 

She can get up and down now which she could not do on Friday morning. Her right is worse than the left. She can pick up her left pretty good, but she cant really pick up her right leg and looks like she is kinda dragging it. On some occasions it looks like she is standing pretty good, but most often is stooping her back end. She is on a pretty strong anti-inflammatory. What is going to happen when we are done with shots in 3 days? 

I am going to continue to try to help her with essential oils that are anti-inflammatory and put this on her spine. We will continue to keep her separated from the herd. Right now, she is in my backyard. 

Our herd is a working herd. Iris is going to be a pet goat at best. I do not think that she could ever be bred and go thru childbirth. I do think that would be too hard on her. 

This is just breaking my heart. She is such a sweet goat!

Carrol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

In some cases you can go longer on banamine...maybe try 5 days....you can give some dill weed to cleanse her liver...a spring or two a day...sending good thoughts..


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am going to try rubbing on her spine Helichrysum and rosemary essential oil 3 to 4 xs per day to see if that may help her. I saw that you recommended the helichrysum on another post. I have been going thru my books to find something I could use. Thank you for that information. The vet gave us 5 days of banamine shots to give her. Good to know about the dill weed. I will add that to her regimen.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..helichrysum is great....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent. There is always hope.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

toth boer goats said:


> Prayers sent. There is always hope.


I supposed Iris is going to have good days and bad days. Today I think was not such a good day.

She was up this morning and moving around a little, but spent most of the afternoon laying down.

The sore spot in her spine seems to have disappeared. When I was rubbing the essential oil on her this afternoon, I did not find it when I was checking her out.

I am trying real hard to keep a positive attitude and be my usual optimistic self. I have never dealt with an injury like this before. I can't imagine how she is going to do as an adult saanen if she doesnt acquire the use of her back legs back. Hope and prayers is what I need.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Its going to take time . IMO , not finding the sore spot is a positive and if thats all you get today , then so be it. Lets just try to think of the present right now with her , baby steps , no pun intended there. Be positive around her as well , that always helps 
Tomorrow may bring more encouraging signs . Once she feels the soreness is alleviated in her back , she may decide its time to stretch those legs of hers. 
I'll keep her in my prayers :hug:


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> Its going to take time . IMO , not finding the sore spot is a positive and if thats all you get today , then so be it. Lets just try to think of the present right now with her , baby steps , no pun intended there. Be positive around her as well , that always helps
> Tomorrow may bring more encouraging signs . Once she feels the soreness is alleviated in her back , she may decide its time to stretch those legs of hers.
> I'll keep her in my prayers :hug:


Thank you - this helps alot. We are going to put more permanent housing for her in my backyard this weekend. It looks like she is going to be there a while.

Hopefully, I can do the right things that will help her recover. I am heading to town in the morning to get some DMSO. The reading I have been doing says this is one of the other things that helps regeneration of nerves along with Helichrysum and to alternate the application.

I am by nature an optimistic person - probably to a fault. I cant help but worry and this situation has certainly been difficult, but I am going to hold my optimism out in front of me like a carrot to get my baby thru this.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

How is she today ? I meant to say , spending as much time with her as you can will help encourage her to fight. Just saying  I know you probably already are doing this , but i wanted to add that anyways. 

Thats good your optimistic , there is no better way to be IMO  
Keep up all the good work your doing BTW !


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> How is she today ? I meant to say , spending as much time with her as you can will help encourage her to fight. Just saying  I know you probably already are doing this , but i wanted to add that anyways.
> 
> Thats good your optimistic , there is no better way to be IMO
> Keep up all the good work your doing BTW !


It seems today we are where we started out on Friday - At least yesterday she was able to get herself up and stand. That seemed to change yesterday afternoon.

Today it seems her right leg is just hanging with no function at all. It seems she totally unable to use that right leg. Her left leg is somewhat better, but she is unable to get herself up at all or put ANY weight on her backlegs to hold herself up.

We have gone back to where we were on Friday morning and I certainly don't know why. Maybe this will change when I start using the DMSO. I have high hopes.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I suggest you call the vet and let him know of this setback just to keep him apprised and see if he has any additional ideas. Especially if it was due to the end of the banamine dosing.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...keeping your vet updated may help him continue to look for answers to help her


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

I just wanted to add I am so sorry! You are a trooper and doing a lot, I do hope the very best for your girl.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What about getting a sling built for her, so she can be up for a while longer on and off throughout the day. make it to where her feet can touch the ground with her legs slightly bent, so if she wants to get on her feet, she can to stand. Make it comfortable and have plenty of cushion on it. Do this with supervision, maybe for a couple hours at a time here and there. Maybe she is laying down so long on that leg, that it went to sleep, that may be causing her not to be able to use it possibly?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I was just thinking the same thing ^^ I really hope this is a possibility !


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

toth boer goats said:


> What about getting a sling built for her, so she can be up for a while longer on and off throughout the day. make it to where her feet can touch the ground with her legs slightly bent, so if she wants to get on her feet, she can to stand. Make it comfortable and have plenty of cushion on it. Do this with supervision, maybe for a couple hours at a time here and there. Maybe she is laying down so long on that leg, that it went to sleep, that may be causing her not to be able to use it possibly?


I was thinking the same thing. That is why I have been going out to sit with her and hold her back end up so she can stand for a while. My husband said that he was going to build something to help her do this. I have been trying to do this at least 4 times a day.

I am also going to start rubbing her legs down 3 to 4 times a day.

Yesterday, she was able to hold her weight on her back legs and balance for a while. As the day goes on, I think she gets tired....

I picked up the DMSO yesterday. I have also been doing alot of reading about it. Cant use it at full strength - causes skin irritation. Some have been mixing it with coconut oil and helichrysum. I went ahead and tried that. We will see.....

I was supposed to call the vet yesterday to let him know how she is doing because he does want to know and I forgot to. I will today.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I got one of our empty feed bags and filled it with hay to the height that Iris could sit on it comfortably. Put her on top of it and arranged it so she could sit comfortably with her legs under her. Worked wonderful! Did this for about 5-10 minutes until Iris wanted to move off of it.

Found this website: http://www.handicappedpets.com/physical-therapy-for-pet-paralysis

Am going to talk with my vet first but will start slow.....


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Aww thats great , i hope this helps her !
Will be praying for her


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am surprised! 2nd bag sitting this morning. Did range of motion exercises. Got resistance on her right leg:stars: That is the one that has been more or less hanging unused.

Then she decided that she wanted to go eat some of the blackberries in our backyard. I helped her get there, but we did a small amount of roaming.

Progress!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:cheers::stars:

Glad it all is helping her. You are something special to help her as you are, a lot of work, bless you and her.

Prayers sent for continued progress.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wonderful news...she is in great hands!! GOOD JOB!!!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> :cheers::stars:
> 
> Glad it all is helping her. You are something special to help her as you are, a lot of work, bless you and her.
> 
> Prayers sent for continued progress.


I second that ! :hi5: :stars: :cheers:


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Update on Iris.

Iris's last bamamine shot was yesterday morning. I am continuing to use helichrysum, dmso and coconut oil.

She is trying to move around but is only really using her front legs to do so. 

I talked with our vet and discussed the physical therapy I need to do: range of motion exercises, and trying to get her to hold her weight on her back legs. 

Various amounts of success on getting her to hold any weight on her back legs. It seems that on some days I am more sucessful than others. I am going to add weight bearing exercise in addition to the range of motion (doing bycycle motions)

We will see how this works....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im really pulling for this little girl , will continue to keep her in my prayers.
Your amazing for going the distance with your girl , she's very lucky to have you 
as a mom


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> Im really pulling for this little girl , will continue to keep her in my prayers.
> Your amazing for going the distance with your girl , she's very lucky to have you
> as a mom


I really appreciate everybody's encouragement. It has kept me going.

That is exactly how I feel - I am her Mom. There is no way I can give up on her. I see small amounts of progress. We are going to get a better shelter built for her this weekend. I was thinking of trying to find something like a baby bouncer to see if something like that would encourage her to kinda use her legs.

I wonder if that might be beneficial?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Any way you could get her some swimming time? That would be the very best thing for her.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

You ARE her mom  If it wasnt for you , she probably wouldn't have a chance.
Give yourself a pat on the back for all your effort and love for her !

Swimming would be great ! 
If you could get that baby bouncer , I'm thinking it would give her the opportunity to use her legs , but also to take a rest once she figures it out  
Lets see what overs think before you spend money on it though


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

Go to a second hand baby store. One of those door hanging bouncers might actually work out really well. You can hang it from a tree.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> You ARE her mom  If it wasnt for you , she probably wouldn't have a chance.
> Give yourself a pat on the back for all your effort and love for her !
> 
> Swimming would be great !
> ...


I am aware of the work I am getting into along with all of the other things I have to do. But you are right, this is a labor of love. I would not be able to do this if I had to travel to work. I work from home and can easily go out to check on her. She is not wanting to eat the orchard and alfalfa hay. I have started to pull greens from my back yard. I am going to start growing fodder for her and add BOSS. Maybe variety is spice of life even for a goat. :rose::yum:

We would not certainly be goat owners if we worried about the amount of work that goes into it. The rewards will be to see her walk again....

I dont have any access to a pool. There is the Columbia River down the hill, but that would be impractical besides being cold and a current to boot.

I have been looking up goat physical therapy and I found a website that talked about using a sling using materials they had around. The shelter I am putting together isn't going to be fancy and will cost around $35 to put together. We are going to use 1 welded wire panel, 4 steel fence posts, some plywood and tarps and a couple of packages of zipties. I am going to create a sling for her by using a 2x4 to hang her off of. I was going to use a sheet for the sling part. The bounce on a baby bouncer would be an added benefit and if I could find one at goodwill at a decent price. I still would have to take it apart to make it work for Iris. I may have to get my sewing machine out.

If I am lucky, the rains will hold off for a while longer. We will see....


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

You are doing so good, goat momma! She is very loved and I bet she knows she is spoiled by the best


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I think we had a breakthrough today...sorta. I put 2 bags together that was stuffed with hay and placed them under her belly and kinda rolled them. When we got to her back legs, she tried to hold some of her weight. 

I think she is scared to try to hold any of her weight. When I had her in a safe situation, she was attempting to use her back legs. They are very weak right now, but I could she was making some effort. 

I dont have the shelter built yet - that is happening tomorrow. I think the sling is what she needs. I am also going to try to pick up an exercise ball that I can put her on to roll her from her front to her back legs. 

The other thing I noticed is that along her spine there was a couple of bones that seemed to be slightly out of alignment. Today, that seems to have disappeared. I rub her spine 4 times a day with Coconut oil, helicrysum and DMSO. 

It is slow, but we are having progress.....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear she is going in the right direction.

You are doing a really good job with her. Keep up the good work. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds encouraging. I think those little positive signs help keep us moving toward the goal..for both the goat and caretaker..good job!!


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

*Iris update.*



happybleats said:


> Sounds encouraging. I think those little positive signs help keep us moving toward the goal..for both the goat and caretaker..good job!!


As soon I can figure out how to do it, I am going to post a picture of my contraption.

And those little positive signs are happening slowly. I fashioned a sling out of a pair of sweatpants and that seemed to work pretty well. Also made it easier to get her up to hang off of the board going across the shelter. The sling out of a bedsheet seemed to be too slippery and did not hold her well.

When I have her in the sling, we do motion exercises and weight bearing exercises. On occasion, I can get her to take some of the weight and she kinda balances for a short time. Tonight, when I took her out of the sling, she told me that she wanted to continue to stand in the worst way. She did not want to get back down. I know progress is going to happen because she wants to walk again. I think I can see the signs that she does. When we are doing our exercises, I am going to use some vet wrap to wrap her back feet and hock - when she tries to move she can't keep it straight and bends forward onto her foot. This might give her stability in her feet. I will take it off when we are done.

Thanks for the encourgement everybody. I have a feeling that I will be doing this for quite a while.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your doing a great , it sounds to me she is liking what your doing and i agree , she is telling you she wants to try and that means everything !
We are all here to help encourage you and be there for you  

Bless your heart for being so dedicated to Iris , continued prayers for you both


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are doing great.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

We have progress!!!

I had to leave today and left the care of my Iris to my husband and he did a great job! 

This evening, I noticed that on occasion she was able to take a little step when she was in the sling and move both of her feet forward. And it looks like that her back feet isnt bending forward nearly as much where the weight is placed on the front part of the foot. I also did a test and tried to pickup up her legs on both sides separately and got resistance. Last night when she was in the sling I moved her forward to put her in the proper posture to stand with her back feet and I could tell that she was using her muscles in her leg. I could see them flex.

I talked with the vet yesterday and explained what I was doing, and he said I was doing all of the right things and the right physical therapy. He said the issue with the feet is that she has lost the connection with her back feet and she doesn't know where they are. He said that is the first to go and the last to get back. 

I now see that there is some hope and she may very well recover from this!:sun:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats totally awesome ! How rewarding for you to see all your hard work pay off seeing her take a few steps and use her muscles !
Im so happy for you both  I was thinking , google a wobble board. I used to train my young dogs on one so they can learn how to use their muscles and balance and also get used to the ground moving underneath them. Most pups have no idea they have control of their back ends , they just think it follows them , lol.. The wobble board training prepares them for the teeter that comes later on it their agility training. Anyways , i think it might be useful for Iris and your work with her. They are very easy to make , all you really need is a tennis ball cut in half and a board of some kind. You'll see tons of pictures and do it yourself ways of making one. So glad I read your post before going to bed , left me with a great feeling


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Of course she won't be able to use it on her own , but maybe along with the sling it could help her


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great job. Mybcat is having the same issue..spinal injury. She is unsure if where her feet are...he gave a steroid shot to help the inflammatiin and i already see improvement. Might try Dex or banamine again and see if it doesnt help speed her recovery?


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

happybleats said:


> Great job. Mybcat is having the same issue..spinal injury. She is unsure if where her feet are...he gave a steroid shot to help the inflammatiin and i already see improvement. Might try Dex or banamine again and see if it doesnt help speed her recovery?


I am really sorry to hear about Mybcat. I think a spinal injury is a hard one to deal with. Depending on the extent, they are down and cannot maneuver around like they are used to. Since goats has social hierarchy similar to dogs, I am sure they also suffer from depression just like any person would due to their situation. They need the social interaction for their mental health and don't do well if they don't have companionship. If I had recognized what the real issue was to begin with, it maybe would not have gotten as bad as it did. The only social interaction Iris gets right now is with me and my husband because we had to separate her from the herd. I am sure she misses her sister and her friends.

We are taking her back to the vet for an exam as soon as we can make our schedule and the vet's match. Probably on Monday. He wants to check her progress.

He told me the DMSO is also a powerful anti-inflammatory and to use gloves when I use it. He said they used to use DMSO all of the time before they got banamine. I am continuing to use it now with the vet's approval. I told him what and how I am doing it and he said yes - continue. It will not hurt and may help a whole bunch. And the DMSO also does not have the same effect on the liver as banamine or Dex. I am continuing to also give her dill as you suggested because I know it wouldn't hurt but is a good preventative measure anyway.

The one thing I did notice is that when I started to use the sling is when I started to notice more improvement. The vet said to keep her in the sling up to 1-2 hours at time, but not more than 2 hours.

Do you have a sling to use on Mybcat? I think it has been instrumental on helping Iris to start to use her back legs. Gets her up into what is the normal position which is standing. And it also make it easier to do the motion exercises with her back feet - bicycle motion with her back feet, pickup and put down for feet placement and weight bearing and balancing exercises. I think she seems to acquired about 10% back for holding weight on her back legs. At first, it wasn't for very long - like 1-2 seconds. With the sling, my husband and I both noticed that she was able to do it for longer.

He also said that the ball exercises they do with dogs can be done with a goat but it affects the rumen because of the pressure on the rumen. The sling does the same thing. I was going to pickup an exercise ball yesterday but decided against it after I talked with the vet.

One thing I should mention is that the vet hasn't suggested any of this physical therapy except for the weight bearing exercises. I researched this and then asked him about it, then he said - yes do those things too.

I say this not to put the vet down or anything, but I am engaged with him about the care of my goat and I think he appreciates the engagement.

Carrol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

MyBcat should have read My Cat lol..sorry for the confusion..:greengrin: She is mobile just very weak on her back legs...its been a week since her shot of steroid and we have seen strength return....I agree...Banamine and Dex can be very hard on the liver...I was just wondering if another 3 days would give her an edge...but if the DMSO is working then no need. I think some vets are more eager to listen and teach and learn then others...many have no real desire to engage too much on goats behalf. They are cheap to replace and expensive to save...what they need to understand is for many its more then a goat but a huge investment of time money and love...time and love can never be replaced. Find a vet who understands this and you have a keeper....

best wishes


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Now that it's getting colder way too fast, you might think about some heat on those legs and feet to help bring the blood down better. Just for small amounts of time through the course of the day.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

goathiker said:


> Now that it's getting colder way too fast, you might think about some heat on those legs and feet to help bring the blood down better. Just for small amounts of time through the course of the day.


I wondered about that. thank you. I will try that. I will warm a towel in the microwave....

She still hates getting down after getting out of the sling. This morning I held her for a little while and for short amounts of time when I was holding her she was holding herself up with a little bit of support.

So I decided to bring back bag sitting. I arranged the bag under her in between her legs so her rear end was resting on it. I then started to rock her back and forth between one leg to other....

Each day I see her getting just a little bit stronger....


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

When I took Iris out of the sling after lunch today, she actually stood on her legs for quite a while - about 10 seconds. She was hunched down a little bit but she actually held her weight by herself. I was NOT holding her up. I had my hands in front of her feet to keep them from coming forward.

I am so excited! This is a big step forward. She is doing soooooo well. :grin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wonderful to hear. 

Give Iris a kiss for me, I am rooting for her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

woot!! woot!! :leap:


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Iris update:

Iris has acquired a pressure wound near her tush. I have been treating it with coconut oil with Lavender, Onguard and Oregano oil. Seems to be improving, but last night she started to grind her teeth which I read somewhere (maybe it was on this board) that it was a sign she was in pain. I at first wasn't using the oregano oil, but when I added that, she stopped grinding her teeth. The Oregano oil has some pain killing properties and I think that is what made the difference. 

I found it on Friday and have been treating it, but today we are shaving around it so I can put a bandage on it. 

I put together some pads so she can lay on them. She has been on her knees so much that I think her knees have become sore and irritated. 

Also, getting her to drink has been challenge. I had to start giving her pedialight by syringe to get enough liquid in her. I also added to our daily routine a probiotic paste. She is definitely not happy with me when I do these. 

Eating has also been a challenge. I started sprouting again and she eats those alot. I also forage for her from around our property and get maple leaves, alder leaves and she eats those along with the sprouts. She will occasionally take a bite of orchard grass hay, but not often. She also has rejected completely any alfalfa hay/pellets. 

Her back legs around her hooves have been cold in the morning. I did start warming the towels and that has helped. Last night though I placed a towel under and over her hooves to see if that made any difference. This morning her feet were alot warmer. 

Today it seems she is doing better and looking brighter. 

Carrol


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Working with PVC is very easy and building these wheel chairs shouldn't be too difficult. There are different ways to do it but, I really like this one for a goat.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

what a happy video : )


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

add some tea tree and helichrysum to the pressure sore blend...it will make a difference..i made a blend for my mom that healed a terrible sore. the drs couldn't beleive how fast the oils healed it. here is a home made recipe for electrolytes..most goats love it and it might encourage more fluid intake...also make a mush out of alfalfa pellets, add a bit of yogurt....use a turkey baster to drench it...


Homemade Electrolytes 

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Also cypress is great for circulation; )


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Thank you for all of your suggestions. I am slowly putting them to use. 

We are visiting the vet on this coming Tuesday and he also mentioned with me about a goat cart and had designs and pictures of what he had in mind. My husband said he would build one, but the PVC design makes it so I could put it together. 

Even with her sore, Iris is still progressing. We had a first today.

We were dressing her sore and put her down on the pads. She rested there on her side for a while, then the next thing we noticed she was had totally changed her position and was more or less sitting and looking very comfortable. 

She is not walking, but she is using her legs and able to retract them to where she wanted to be and totally re-positioned her whole body. I am not sure, but I think that this may be a major breakthrough.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Iris is certainly doing her best , i really do feel she is going to pull through this ! 
Bless your heart for going the distance with her , she sure knows your helping her and you both love her dearly , thats what is making her try so hard.
Im very interested in how her vet visit goes , keep us posted !
Keeping Iris in my prayers


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Some good new and not so good news from the vet. 

The good news is that she can still feel deep pain in her lower legs. Means the nerve is not severed. 

The not so good new is that she still doesnt know where her feet are in space. She does still have some muscle in her upper back legs, just not in her lower.

The Vet put her on a cortiroid steroid - a stronger anti-inflammitory, to see if that reduces the inflammation enough. 5 more days of shots. She still has the painful spot in her spine, just not as bad as when he saw her before.

I tried the homemade electrolyte solution - she drank on her one for the 1st time in days last night. However, today it is back to refusing to drink water on her own. Darn!

I remade the sling - in a figure 8 for holding her hind quarters. Puts no pressure on the rumen. He said to not use any sling or cart that holds her by her middle - it will cause problems with her rumen and could cause it to shut down. 

Some good information - he told us what kind of cart to use and he wants to see it before we purchase it. I do think my vet is a keeper!

He said there is still some hope that she will regain use of her limbs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Prayers...you are doing wonderful with her..lots of dedication and love. ..if in the end there is no more to try..and you need to let her go...you will know in your heart its right ((Hugs))


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

In my heart, I would have a hard time letting her go by putting her down. Unless there is some other serious issued like being in pain all of the time. I am a bit of whimp that way. Almost became a vegetarian. 

My husband and I talked about this issue tonight. As long as I have the time, I will try to continue to help her. If I have to let her go, I will look for a animal rescue that would take her. Sometimes there are farms that do only animal rescue, if they would take care of a goat with this kind of injury. 

My instinct is to keep her as my pet. My husband is willing to make the cart and help where he can. He just has a bit more practical outlook on it, I suppose, but loves her just as much as I do. He at least will give her the shots, where I have a very difficult time doing that. He said that getting her to a stable situation whatever that is is his goal. Putting her down is not his first choice either. 

I am also looking at this as a learning experience.... I am going to continue plugging away at it. We will see.....


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Iris has been grinding her teeth on occasion. I don't what that really means, but when she does it, I put some oregano oil on her spine then she seems to stop it. She certainly isnt grinding her teeth alot, just some.

I am wondering if that means she is in pain. I don't see any other signs of her being in pain though. 

When we gave her her shot today in her upper leg muscle, she told us she felt it. You could tell by her reaction. I am glad she could feel it. That is better than no feeling. 

It could be my imagination or I don't really know what I was seeing, but it seemed when we were doing the range of motion exercises, she took control of her leg for a second. 

The new sling I made is working much better. I took 2 long strips from sweatshirt fabric and crossed them in an "x" and sewed that part together. This goes inbetween her legs. Then ended up with 2 strips that came in front of her back legs and 2 strips that go in back of her legs. Holds her hips up and she is very comfortable in it. Works like a charm. 

The vet gave me some cream (I think he called it silvadene) to put on her pressure sore. When I used it exclusively, the pressure sore seemed to start getting red again. When I put her in the sling (3 x's a day), I started to use the coconut oil mixed with oregano oil, on guard and lavender again. Turned it around and it started to improve. Got much better results. 

We are working on the goat wheelchair. Should have it ready tomorrow. Am thinking she will be glad to be mobile again. 

Am thinking about bringing another goat up to visit with her for a while - maybe her sister....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she may be playing with her teeth..sometimes they will grind them around...but if its a true grind, it could mean her tummy hurts.. with all shes been through..she is susceptible to worm and cocci load...a fecal maybe in order. 

on the pressure sore...I know the oils worked better then what the drs used on my mom....so keep with what works :-D

a buddy would be great...


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Update on the pressure sore.

Taking care of the pressure sore has been a challenge. It is in a bad spot, it is on the left of her tush. The silvadene cream the vet gave us to use didn't seem to keep infection at bay. I went back to the coconut oil, with oregano oil, on guard and lavender. Needed more essential oils, wasnt able to get lavender, but got clary sage instead.

I had a really hard time keeping a bandage on it. I tried multiple kinds of wound tapes from the store, but I finally ended up with duct tape. This is the only one I could get to stick to her with any kind of success. I am now finally seeing scabbing happen around the edges of the wound. Is no longer getting bigger, but is now starting to reduce in size. 

We bought some pads to put under her, but she kept on moving off of them. Could not keep her on them. I found some egg crate foam that I had, put a light plastic garbage around it, put it in a pillow case and put that under her. She does move off of it sometimes, but she stays on this alot more and is soft enough to keep the pressure sore from getting worse. I think I finally have the right combination for her to lay on and the method of bandaging that works to keep it clean. 

We got the cart built, but the pressure sore has taken front seat. Have to finish the harnessing....

Carrol


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your doing a amazing job with her :hug: Thats great her sore is starting to scabbing over , that alone is such a accomplishment !
The egg crate foam was a great idea ! So was the duck tape , lol.. You gotta go with what works sometimes , no matter how unconventional 
Yeah , i agree , get that sore healed up , then try the cart . Im sure if the sore hurts , she won't want to do anything that will aggravate it. 
Give Iris a hug and kiss for me


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: Good work.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Update on Iris.

It has been a challenging week dealing with her pressure sore. Did alot of research, talked with the Dr I work for and am finally making some progress with the pressure sore.

From the time from the last vet visit to a week later, the bedsore had grown to almost 2 inches in diameter. 

I brought her into the house last Friday (much to my husbands chagrin). This was to make it easier to manage the pressure sore and it has really helped. I went on a schedule to continually move her position every 2 hours. Had to change her from supine to laying on her side then back to supine. She did not like getting put on her side, but would stay in that position for a while. Have her on foam that I covered in plastic bags, covered with old t-shirts, then put a towel on top folded in half with plastic in between to try to keep the leaks to a minimum. Am constantly doing laundry. :laundry: Am getting up 2x in the middle of the night to change her bandage, check on her and change her position. 

I did alot of research on how to manage and heal bedsores. I sent my husband to the drug store to buy a special kind of bandage and it turned out to be a gooey gauze pad. I used that and got an idea on how to make my own.

I started making my own bandages, and put a whole bunch of coconut oil with essential oils on a gauze pad and put that on her. The only problem was when the coconut oil warmed up it started leaking and the bandage did not want to stick to her any more. Sometimes I would come into check on her and the bandage was off and her feces would be an issue. I think it is a miracle that it has not gotten infected. 

When I was finally able to talk with the Dr I work for, he told me he used a combination of aloe/brown sugar to heal bed sores and it worked wonderful. He said to pack the sore with the sugar/aloe combination. I did not have brown sugar and no aloe in my place. Did alot of reading and finally figured I could use the coconut oil/white sugar
combination. They said to mix it to peanut butter consistency. 

Finally started using that combination yesterday. Today, the bedsore is much smaller, about half the size it was on Friday. Lots of healthy new skin around the bedsore. Think I have seen the most progress when I started using the coconut oil/sugar combination. 

She seems to be in good spirits. We spend our days together now (I put her in my office where I work during the day). I can keep a much better eye on her and it seems to make a difference. We have defiantly gotten into a routine and she moves around so I can clean up her bedding. She is learning to compensate for not have any working back legs. After the bed sore is closer to being healed, we will start up the motion exercises again. 

I tried the alfalfa powder mixed with water to feed her with. Added a little bit of applesauce. She slurped that down with gusto and wanted more! 

:clap::clap::clap:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is great that you are doing so much for her and she is responding.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good job!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great job.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am amazed at the results from using coconut oil/sugar on Iris's bedsore. In 1 week and 2 days, it went from a 2 inch diameter to an inch. The healing on the sore has been amazing in just 1 week. 

The bandage moved its way off of the sore today and allowed some feces to get onto her sore. I used coconut oil to flush it out of her sore. Worked like a charm. The coconut oil warmed up with her body temp and became liquid and allowed me to remove the contamination from her wound. 

Purchased an inexpensive twin size bed foam pad. Folded it in half and put a waterproof cover on it. She can still move around a little and still be on the pad. Put her in diapers on Wednesday. Rigged a belt with vet wrap. This seems to protect the sore much better. Also, am doing much less laundry. 

With the way the sore is healing, I am guessing that it will be healed in 1 to 2 weeks. Meanwhile, I am getting the cart finished with the webbing and harness that needs to be in place. 

I am not seeing any scaring happen with the bedsore as it heals. The new skin around the sore is pink and healthy.

The reading I have been doing regarding the use of sugar to heal injuries/sores has a long history. The sugar creates an environment in the wound that doesn't allow any bacteria to survive. I have tried my best to keep the wound clean and free of infection. It has happened more than once where her feces has gotten onto her wound because of the close proximity to her rear end. I have tried multiple methods of bandaging her wound with different kinds of tape even. I had to use a 3x3 gauze pad to begin with and there was not much room between the wound and her rear. I have now been able to use a 2x2 gauze pad and the wound size has made it much easier. Even with the problem I have had keeping the wound from getting contaminated, there is absolutely NO sign of infection. I attribute this to the use of the coconut oil/sugar. 

I was a little bit hesitant to just pack the wound with the sugar/coconut oil to begin with. But after seeing how well it has worked, this learning experience has convinced me that the addition of sugar to my medicine cabinet for the goats will be a keeper.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your doing a amazing job with Iris ! Healing that pressure sore with the coconut and sugar mix is incredible ! 
I can't put into words how blessed Iris is to have you as her "mommy"  
Give her a hug and kiss for me


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I am so exhausted. Its been a long time since I had to get up in the middle of the night to change diapers, but I can't let Iris go for more than 2 hours at a time. 

The pressure sore is finally down to the size of a dime. It has been amazing on how quickly the sore has healed when I finally found the right combination. I was able to finally stop making my own bandages and was able to use a premade bandage for large wounds. I still put the sugar/coconut oil mix on her wound and add another gauze pad for absorption. Dont know what it is, but the premade bandages seem to work much better in enough stickiness, but not too much. Instead of having to change the bandage 6-7 times a day, we are down to 2x a day. 

She has been inside my house for about 2 weeks. As soon as the sore is healed, I am going to start putting her back outside (in my backyard). I supposed I will have to do it slowly to acclimate her to being outside again. I expecting to be able to start with that sometime next week.

Any suggestions? Maybe I will have to provide her with a "goat blanket" for nighttime. - or bring her in at night for a while....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How is she walking? You are doing a great job!


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

ksalvagno said:


> How is she walking? You are doing a great job!


She is not walking. Before the pressure sore took over, I could see where she was able to move her left back leg a little by herself. We have started the motion exercises again and I hope that we can make some progress again. I really don't know if she will ever regain function in her back legs again.

It may be that the cart will be her lifelong companion.

I do know that she has not lost deep pain in her legs. She can feel them. Moving them may be another issue altogether.

Does anybody know the pros and cons of long term use of dmso to help her nerves regenerate?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

cfish001 said:


> She is not walking. Before the pressure sore took over, I could see where she was able to move her left back leg a little by herself. We have started the motion exercises again and I hope that we can make some progress again. I really don't know if she will ever regain function in her back legs again.
> 
> It may be that the cart will be her lifelong companion.
> 
> ...


I don't know , I'm sorry i can't help with your questions. Im wondering if the muscles she needs to use to move them need conditioning. They might have atrophied. I don't know what the physical therapy would be or if it would help.
You have done so much for her , i hope she can eventually get around on her 
own. You might have to do some soul searching here...:hug:


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> I don't know , I'm sorry i can't help with your questions. Im wondering if the muscles she needs to use to move them need conditioning. They might have atrophied. I don't know what the physical therapy would be or if it would help.
> You have done so much for her , i hope she can eventually get around on her
> own. You might have to do some soul searching here...:hug:


I really don't know what I am going to do. I am going to keep plugin away at it for a while. :book: I have the cart put together and we put her in it yesterday. She seemed to enjoy the mobility it gave her. We have started the mobility exercises again...

The other thing we are having issues with is her weight. She seems very fickle about what she will eat. I forage for her every day and she likes the fresh leaves, but the available forage is going to go away with the season. She absolutely loves apples. I make a slurry with alfalfa powder to get her water down her. I can not get her to eat any hay - orchard or alfalfa. She will eat very small amounts then leaves the rest. She has lost weight and I am not sure how to get the weight back on her.

Maybe the activity in the cart will help improve her appetite...


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

cfish001 said:


> I really don't know what I am going to do. I am going to keep plugin away at it for a while. :book: I have the cart put together and we put her in it yesterday. She seemed to enjoy the mobility it gave her. We have started the mobility exercises again...
> 
> The other thing we are having issues with is her weight. She seems very fickle about what she will eat. I forage for her every day and she likes the fresh leaves, but the available forage is going to go away with the season. She absolutely loves apples. I make a slurry with alfalfa powder to get her water down her. I can not get her to eat any hay - orchard or alfalfa. She will eat very small amounts then leaves the rest. She has lost weight and I am not sure how to get the weight back on her.
> 
> Maybe the activity in the cart will help improve her appetite...


Maybe with the slurry your making , you can add some calf manna to it.
That can put weight on nicely , if she likes it.....
I really wish i could offer more advice and answers....
Not sure if she would even entertain licking up some minerals...
If she does become more active in her cart , like you said , it might make her develop a better appetite.

Prayers for the both of you , as always :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Give her a fortified Vit B complex shot SQ, that will increase appetite. Is she drinking plenty of water.

Banamine does as well but can't be used for long periods of time. 

Calfmanna is a good one to put on weight, but if she isn't getting enough hay or Alfalfa pellets, and not able to move around, that may cause ruminant issues.. 

I would still have free choice Alfalfa hay for her. 

I am also concerned about her being stressed, it could cause worms or cocci to explode too. Can you get a fecal on her for both in case?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh good ideas ! I would surely get a fecal done , that could be part of her weight issue...if it is , maybe once she is wormed and feeling better she will become stronger and show more interest in hay and browse..
I'm really hoping that this is it and once wormed she will feel so much better.....fingers crossed


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you are amazing...its not an easy task maintaining her Im sure...some issues you will face is the rumen being healthy,..worms loads as Pam mentioned..daily B complex and Probios is a great idea. try adding yogurt to the alfalfa slurry...maybe order some Digest 911 or Angel maker to help.. keeping her active of course you know is needed... what kind of stuff do your browse for her? leaves, pine, cedar, rose clippings are all good...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, more good advice there.

Let us know what her fecal says, she may or may not be clean but, that will let you know in case, because that will drag her down if it is anyone of the two of both.

Have you checked her inner lower eyelid coloring?


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

happybleats said:


> you are amazing...its not an easy task maintaining her Im sure...some issues you will face is the rumen being healthy,..worms loads as Pam mentioned..daily B complex and Probios is a great idea. try adding yogurt to the alfalfa slurry...maybe order some Digest 911 or Angel maker to help.. keeping her active of course you know is needed... what kind of stuff do your browse for her? leaves, pine, cedar, rose clippings are all good...


Thank you for the compliment. It has not been an easy task, but her sweet disposition and happy reactions when she sees me does make it easier. One thing that has made it easier is her bed is in my office and we are able to spend the days together. I am talking to her all day long as I work. I am also able to keep a really close eye on her.

I have tried to maintain a healthy diet for her all along and have already incoprorated many of suggestions I have gotten here into our daily routine. I have never heard of Angel maker or Digest 911. I will look into that. One thing I havent done is given her BOSS daily. I will add that.

I give her nutritional yeast with ground flax seed, ground rose hips, garlic and diatomaceous earth all mixed together with a little bit of molasses. This is my daily vitamin dose, a teaspoon at a time. The nutritional yeast is high in b vitamins. Purina used ground flax seed in their expensive goat mineral mix. All of my goats get this at least 2 weeks out of every month for maint on external parasites, internal parasites, and just for general health. This is my 4th year in using this mix and none of my goats seems to ever have any health issues, all being very healthy and free of parasites. My vet has even commented on how healthy my goats are. I have been giving it to Iris every day.

She gets a probiotic every morning. We make kefir with goats milk. I havent tried the kefir yet with her, but I will see if she will take that.

I give her the alfalfa slurry mixed with applesauce. The applesauce was the vets idea. The vet said I should make sure she gets 2 liters of water a day. I am able to do that with the slurry and applesauce. I usually mix the applesauce with more water.

I am able to collect lots of tree leaves for her from my property. Her favorite is the vine maple, but I am also able to get large leaf maple, alder, cedar, pine. We have lots of blackberry around the property and the goats always eat it when they are browsing, but I cant manage to pick it for Iris. Too many stickers.

With the forgaging going away with the season, I am going to try to replace it with sprouts/microgreens. Mung beans, BOSS, and barley. I have tried to start a couple of batches, but had to throw them out due to mold issues (this due to my exhaustion). I didnt do things timely. I know she will eat these, it is just getting myself back into the right routine.

We was in the cart yesterday for about a half an hour at a time. We practice getting around and maneuvering the cart. Used apple slices as an incentive (it is funny to watch - this goat is crazy for apples). She directed herself back to her "bed" when she wanted.

I have been checking her lower eyelids and they do look good. I don't think she is stressed, she appears to be comfortable and happy, although bored.

Her weight loss has been gradual. I do think that this is due to her fickel eating habits right now. I would love to see her eat alfalfa and grass hay again and I do have it free choice for her. She will only eat small amounts when I am sitting with her...


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

Once her wound is healed, see if the vet will give low dose steroids to perk her appetite. That's what patients in the hospital get. Interesting about the coconut oil/sugar. There is a newer wound care product out call Medihoney. It is just a "therapeutic" grade of honey that keeps the wound bed clean and also has a slight debriding action with open wounds. I've been told by a physician that regular honey would have a similar action and so, evidently, does sugar and coconut oil


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

Following this post!! Prayers for Iris. You are a great goat MOM!!


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Today, she seems to have a much better appetite. She has eaten all day long alfalfa hay and orchard grass hay. I brought in both from new bales. Maybe she didnt like the other bales we had. She has it free choice and this is the 1st day she has munched on it all day long. arty:

She had gradually started to refuse more and more of the alfalfa slurry. She loves applesauce flavored water and apples. I am able to get a good amount of water down her by adding applesauce to it. 

All in all she has had a great day!


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

CrazyDogLady said:


> Once her wound is healed, see if the vet will give low dose steroids to perk her appetite. That's what patients in the hospital get. Interesting about the coconut oil/sugar. There is a newer wound care product out call Medihoney. It is just a "therapeutic" grade of honey that keeps the wound bed clean and also has a slight debriding action with open wounds. I've been told by a physician that regular honey would have a similar action and so, evidently, does sugar and coconut oil


I do think you are right. The doctor I work for told me about the sugar part. He said he uses aloe with brown sugar. I modified it to coconut oil with white sugar because that is what I had. I do think it has a slight debriding action. On 2 different times, dead skin did slough off, one was the original damaged epidermis layer and later there was a section in the wound bed that eventually detached itself. Due to where the wound was, I was always having challenges about having feces get on top of the wound (the bandage would loose stickiness and feces would work their way in). I was constantly changing bandages and attempting to get a good seal with tape. I was amazed that wound never got infected and kept on healing at rapid rate.

I was told that the sugar makes it an environment that bacteria could not survive. I do think that is true because of how many times the wound bed got contaminated and did not get infected.

I have never seen a wound heal as fast as this one has. It was at least 2 inches in diameter to begin with. It is now down to less than the size of a dime and is now healing from the wound bed up to the epidermis layer. This section that is left was the deepest part of the wound and now almost up to skin layer.

I am thinking that it will be completely healed within a week. As soon as that happens, she is going to get a bath......


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

That's amazing she's healing her wound. Her improved appetite will sure help. The number one thing that is always assessed with wounds is nutrition. And thank goodness no infection. Sacral pressure ulcers are always such a challenge because of the contamination from patients voiding. That and those black heels. I'd keep going with that wound care until her skin is intact. But that speed of healing speaks volumes to your care.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is awesome news. 

If she is eating more Alfalfa hay, then you don't need to slurry her. 

If you are too eventually give her a bath, be sure the weather is warm, not cold.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Awesome :stars::wahoo:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree . If she is eating hay/ alfalfa..no need to slurry. .which is so much better! ! Good job


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

toth boer goats said:


> That is awesome news.
> 
> If she is eating more Alfalfa hay, then you don't need to slurry her.
> 
> If you are too eventually give her a bath, be sure the weather is warm, not cold.


The bath will happen in my bathtub in my bathroom.

She has not put on a winter coat - all of my other goats have. The transition to outside may take quite a while because her body is not ready for outside living at this time of year. She may end up with some clothes, but we will see.

We are alternating food. Her eating is very fickle. Today she ate less hay, so I added the alfalfa slurry. I watch and notice what she is eating and have had to adjust accordingly. The one thing that is constant is her love of apples. She will eat as many as I bring her.

She also has become very comfortable living in my office space. We put her in the goat wheelchair every day for at lease a half an hour. I am not the one taking her back to the space where she has been living for the last 3 weeks - she turns the cart around and goes back to it.... I think it has become her safe place.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are doing great. Hope things are still good with her.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Your little angel is the luckiest girl in the world , your doing a amazing job with her !
Personally , i don't think she will be able to regulate her body temp outside during extreme conditions...i could be wrong though..
My thinking is because she isn't eating good all the time and she doesn't have good body condition to grow a heavier coat...but like you said , she will have her own wardrobe , lol..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, she may not be able to do well in the elements.


Keeping her warm, fed, and moving as much as possible is key.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

You are doing so awesome with her. There are families who put their loved ones into long term care because they don't want to do what you're doing for your precious companion. You're wonderful and obviously have a good warm heart.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Trickyroo said:


> Your little angel is the luckiest girl in the world , your doing a amazing job with her !
> Personally , i don't think she will be able to regulate her body temp outside during extreme conditions...i could be wrong though..
> My thinking is because she isn't eating good all the time and she doesn't have good body condition to grow a heavier coat...but like you said , she will have her own wardrobe , lol..


I will not be putting her outside this winter because of her lack of a good winter coat. My office space has become her home and this may be the case all winter. I was hoping to at least put her outside for a couple of hours a day after her pressure sore is healed to at least give her a break from doggy training pads. Spending the night outside is not going to happen this winter. I am starting to work on her wardrobe. I just wish I could find doggy training pads what would really last 8 hours so I can get a good nights sleep. Right now, I HAVE to change them every 2 1/2 hours or so.

Her pressure sore is almost healed. We have gotten down to the part that was the deepest and it has taken a week for the tissue to grown back to skin level and it looks like the top layer of skin is starting to grow back.

We also had an issue with fleas. I was hoping that diatomaceous earth would do the trick, but it did not keep up with the new fleas. The only thing I found that has really worked is to grease her up with coconut oil and I now do this every couple of day. That seems to kill the fleas right away. From what I understand, it kills them by suffocating them and it does seem to work.

She is one of gods creatures and is totally dependent on me for everything, as are all of my goats. She is a little angel and has a great disposition and that makes it easy for me to do this, but I could not make any other choice even if it is inconvenient. I could not forgive myself if I did not try to help her...


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

I found an alternative to the doggie training pads. I was looking for a DIY solution and found the magic of polar fleece as a moisture barrier. Happened to have some. Works wonderful. Added some other pieces of fabric for absorbancy and she is much more comfortable. I like this solution much better than doggie training pads or diapers.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad you found something and she is doing ok.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear. She is in the right hands.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

We have had eating challenges again.

She has slowly started to refuse orchard grass and the alfalfa slurry. Went out and harvested some vine maple leaves (there is still some on the trees)yesterday and was able to get her to eat that. 

Found some hydration hay that is a mix of timothy, orchard grass and alfalfa hay. It is pressed into blocks and you put it in water. A very small amount of it seemed to increase to 4 x its original size. 

Anyway, I tried that with her this morning and she ate it! 

Am going to try beet pellets to see if she would eat that. Is known to help with weight gain.

Am looking for calf manna in a smaller bag than 50#. I hear walmart may carry it but didn't find it at the smaller walmart in town. There is a walmart superstore in town that I am going to try.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

Ugh - we have an appt with the Vet tomorrow. I think I have been putting it off because.... well... I realize that Iris isn't going to get any better or recover the use of her legs. I was suppose to take her back to the vet at least 2 weeks ago. 

Now I am looking at what could her life be or could she ever be a goat again. Without the use of her legs, she will always be an invalid. She will never be able to rejoin the herd. She will always live in my house or in my backyard, never being able to go anywhere on her own, just to even browse to eat. :tears:

I could continue this as long as I want to, but is this a good thing for her??? I have been on the fence on this issue and sometimes I think that there may be some hope and I want to do everything I can to help her. Then I realize that it is my own wishful thinking, wishing that it was different.

I am down to having to make a real tough decision that I really dont want to make. :tears:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im so sorry your having to face this decision , but you must know you have gone well beyond what many people would have done for Iris. I do agree with your reasoning about her not being able to join her herd , that would be very dangerous with her cart for her and there other animals. And , without the cart , she wouldn't be able to do much at all and i think that wouldn't be ethical either. Your thinking correctly , i totally agree with you , even though its so sad and heartbreaking. Bringing her to the vet , getting his opinion on her progress and future will help you make your decisions. I do feel that if she cant regain the use of her back legs , her future will not be very good. Your in a really rough spot right now , I'm so sorry for you :hug: I know you will be able to make the right choice for Iris. We are all here for you :hug:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm really sorry. Those are tough decisions and you will never really feel good about it. But you know what is best for her and you need to look at quality of life. No matter what decision you make, you have done everything you can for her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Use your best judgment. It has been quite a while. If she isn't improving it may be time to let go.
I know it is not easy, but sometimes when we love an animal so much, we know when enough is enough.

I am very sorry.


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

toth boer goats said:


> Use your best judgment. It has been quite a while. If she isn't improving it may be time to let go.
> I know it is not easy, but sometimes when we love an animal so much, we know when enough is enough.
> 
> I am very sorry.


I had to say goodbye to Iris yesterday. She is now gone.

We had a long discussion with the vet about her condition and how she was doing right now. I have heard her grind her teeth often and when I put oregeno oil on her that seemed to lessen. When the vet looked at her again, he recognized that she was depressed, her back legs had completely atrified, lost weight because of her depression, hurting and definitely not enjoying life. I had done everything I could to make her comfortable. But you are right, I loved her so much that I was able to recognize that enough was enough and her situation was not going to improve. The vet also had high hopes that she could adjust to her new situation. He said that we could give her more pain medicine, but I vetoed giving any more shots. But with her back still hurting and in pain, he thought there was something else going on that we could not determine without a MRI and a lot of money. Even having that answer might not change her condition.

We finally decided that the best thing for her was to end her suffering. Even knowing that, it was one of the worst days I have had in a long time yesterday having to put her down.

I love all of my goats, and I absolutely hate it when I loose one.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am very sorry, you did do the right thing, but it sure makes it hard. 
You will hurt for a very long time, I know I am feeling sorry for your family and the goat, because we all rooted so hard for her to get well. 

You did do an awesome job, trying to help her get well, but unfortunately it wasn't in the cards.

I highly commend you, for what you tried to do, and wouldn't of did it any different. Bless you. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry. I know it was not an easy decision but you set your heart aside for what was best for her. You did above and beyond to help her. ((Hugs))


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im so sorry honey :hug:
You did the right thing for Iris , she is at peace now and no pain. You gave it such valient effort , I'm very touched on how hard you tried everything in your power to give her a fighting chance. Bless your heart . With each day , it will get better.


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