# Premature Birth: HELP Please!



## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

I went out this morning and one of my does had kidded but she is not due for a month yet! She had twins but of course they did not make it. They were born alive but were just not developed enough to be able to survive. 
Then when I just went out to check on her and feed the other goats another one of my nannies dropped two kids as well. They are dead now. She also is not due for a month.
Help please, I have six other nannies due to kid in one month. What is going on and what can I do? 
I am so dissappointed and confused. I have never had anything like this happen. Can anyone help me?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would look into chlamydia. Here is a link: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/spontaneous-abortion-near-full-term-128616/


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I have no idea but hopefully someone comes on here soon to help you..


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Karen i think we posted at the same time..lol..thank god your here to help her.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

If you haven't disposed of the dead kids already, I would send them and some of the placental tissue in for an autopsy to find out what happened. With two does doing it though, I would highly suspect a disease of some variety.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Do you test for brucellosis? It causes late term abortion in goats and other ruminents. It's not ver common in goats but can be passed on by other anmals including deer that may visit. Tetracyclines are used to treat.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The other one is Lepto. I almost forgot that I used to vaccinate my alpacas for Lepto to prevent abortions.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If this does turn out to be Clamydia, don't forget to treat the buck that was used as well. Many people forget that the buck is also infected and expose their younger generation to it by using him.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

you need to treet your herd with LA 200, or an equivalant product. Can also use a water soluble tetracyclene or eureomycin 4G(feed crumbles). I would go with an injectable, since it is the best way to get the medicine in them accuratly and right away. Treat all pregnant does that are more than 2 months pregnant and your buck. 

You can have the stillborn and placenta tested at a state lab or have your vet help you with testing. 

But regardless of which STD or kidding disease they are almost all treated with the above mentioned medications. 
Chlamydia comes to mind first, because of the time frame, Abortions in the last 3 or 4 weeks of gestation. 
Goats can also get that abortion disease that cats spread. 
where gloves. 
and be careful of any pregnant women around your goats. Some of the diseases are contagious. 

Chlamydia is very very common, and so are herds that have abortion problems so don't panic. Just do your research and start treating.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I hope you find out whats causing this, good luck to you..


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Toxoplasmosis is also a possibility. Though usually earlier term abortions occur can happen at anytime. Do you have cats running around the barn? There is also a type of fungus in a certuan type of fescue that can cause this. So best to have some testing done if possible so you know. Sorry it happened


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

*Toxo*



dobe627 said:


> Toxoplasmosis is also a possibility. Though usually earlier term abortions occur can happen at anytime. Do you have cats running around the barn?


Check out toxoplasmosis: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/toxoplasmosis.html

I bet thats whats causing it.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

I am leaning toward chlamydia, I saved one of the kids and might ake it tomorrow to get it tested. A local vet is doing a little research for me and we will talk in the morning. Again I am so thankful for all your help. you guys know more and have more expeirience then any vet around here. 
I am going to start treating all my other goats with LA 200 
What is the dose for that ? I do it for 5 days right ? Can I just do the shots or do I need to do the crumbles as well? 
Thanks in advance for your continued help!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

ray: I hope your other does and their kids are okay!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm so sorry :hug:

I would actually talk with your vet as far as dose and how often with the oxytet, it may end up being different than if you were treating for a systematic type infection.

I hope you can get things under control and end up with your remaining does delivering healthy kids at term :hug:


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

Im very sorry to hear whats happened with your babies....How are their mothers doing??
Im praying that you can find and fix whatever is going on SUPER FAST!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Chlamydia is an interesting disease. It's carried in the sex organs of the adults and also in the fetus. You can give a tetraclycline to prevent an abortion. You can't however cure the fetus until it is born. The reason most people use the aureomycin pellets is because they will need them until they deliver. Starting when they are about 6 weeks out from delivering. Nobody wants to do shots everyday for 6 weeks when the pellets can be used and seem to be eaten well by most goats. Once the does kid the infected fetus then the disease is over for them. Any goats who were where the does aborted are now exposed, the buck is exposed. 
Pregnant does must be treated everyday until they kid or the infected fetus will cause abortion.
Unbred does, bucks, wethers can be treated with bio-mycin shots for 10 days in a row.
Any live kids born from these does must be treated before breeding. 
This disease is easy to care for but, attention must be paid to ensure that the entire herd is rid of it or it will come back to haunt you from a carrier of the illness.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

It is 1 cc per 40 lbs, for 5 days, I hate giving the shots, and normally, will do the shots for a day or two, and then switch to the crumbles. 

You can talk to your vet about using the crumbles in the future as well. Some farmers use them every year, to help with kidding diseases and you may need to treat for 2 or 3 years to slow it down in your herd. 

Direction are pretty clear on the bag for the crumbles. And mine eat it with out mixing anything else in it, although sometimes I get a bag of dried mollasses to feed with it. I didn't like feeding it at the same time as I fed grain, Not if I was trying to do a treatment level. I found in a group setting the slower eaters had to eat the grain, plus the crumbles, and it gave them less of a chance of eating the crumbles. If that made any sense. 

You can also fee the 4G at a preventive dosage. 

Sheep farmers use it all the time.

Going over a plan with your vet is a good place to start. 

Ask your vet about a chlamydia vaccine for cattle or sheep. I have heard of some people using something, but I haven't tried it.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

is bio-mycin, LA-200?
Okay, so the pellets support the nanny and fetus until delivery. So after delivery I need to treat the kids before I breed them ! Do I also need to treat the nannies that aborted so that they don't abort next time? and do I do that with the bio-mycin for 10 days just like the buck and un-bred nannies?
I am wondering if I feed the pellets now to all the goats and then after they have all kidded I treat the whole herd with bio-mycin for 10 days and then is the desease erradicated from my herd until I bring a new goat in? As long as I continue to treat any new kids born, or is this something I will treat for every year?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes, biomycin is LA-200. I think the best thing would be to treat all of your goats, including unbred doelings incase they have been exposed. I would just feed the crumbles to everyone. Oxytet shots hurt something terrible and often leave a swelling. Not too mention, your goats won't appreciate being a pin cushion for 10 days.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

Their plecentas are retained ! What do I do. I went out this morning and both of the nannies that aborted have part of their plecentas hanging out and are pushing.
A vet friend is coming in 1 1/2 hours to help me but he said I should post here and see what you guys know because he is mostly used to cows. Do we pull it out or let them work on it and treat them with bio-mycin awhile.
Thanks again!
We are going to send the plecenta for testing and one of the kids, but are going to start treating the rest awhile. The vet thought I could just treat with the bio-mycin and then be done but am I understanding correctly here that I also need to do the crumbles until the kids are born?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Is it another kid in there? If you're talking about the afterbirth you are not supposed to pull that, or you could tear the uterus. If there's another kid in there, he needs to come out.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

SO i just reach in and check if there is another kid and if not I let them go and they will get the plecenta/afterbirth out on their own?


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes, do not pull out the placentas, that can end very badly. If they are pushing, they should get them out on their own.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

*deleted*


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

retained placenta is common with abortions. If it has been less than 24 hrs you can give a shot of oxytocin to help expel the placenta, and put them on a course of antibiotics - I generally use long acting oxytetracycline or penicillin. Do not pull the placenta out, as long as they go on antibiotics even if they dont expel it their body will deal with it.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks guys, one passed her placenta and the other is still hanging out. We did check and there are no kids in her. 
I started the whole herd on bio-mycin. I treated all twelve of them just now and will dose them again tomorrow morning. Do I do this five days or ten? i read conflicting articles? I also got a bag of auromyacin 4g crumbles, should I feed this as well? Or is everyone covered if I treat them with bio-mycin. the bio-mycin is great compared to the LA-200 it does not seem to sting them at all it was well worth the extra $. Thanks for all your help. I would appreciate any further advice regarding how to keep this from happening again.
I read on here that I need to feed the crumbles until the does kid or they may still abort? am I understanding that correctly? The vet thought that the treatment of bio-mycin should take care of both baby and mama. What is your experience? or Opinion?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do either the Biomycin or the crumble. Not both. I'm not sure on length of time for Biomycin but I would be doing a minimum of 5 days.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

I just sent two of the kids and one plecenta to get tested at New Bolton Research center. Meanwhile I am treating with bio-mycin. 
This experience by far has been the saddest one I have had to deal with, with my goats. I just about cried when I found the first nanny yesterday morning. She is such a good mama and was trying to get her babies to stand up, she kept calling to them and licking them then she would look at me and maaa like she was asking me to help her. It took me a little bit to figure out what was going on and that the kids were not going to make it. so I soon took them out of the pen so that she would not keep crying and trying to get them to respond. How sad! I was so discouraged. You guys have helped me to see that this can be dealt with and we can try again.
It was funny when the vet was here and I was asking him all kinds of questions he kept saying " it's sounds like that forum you are on is really helpful you should ask them" So thank you all. I appreciate all the advice I have gotten, even though I did not respond personally to all I keep going back and reading all the advice that was given. I want to keep learning........ Thanks


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you Karen


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

:hug: We lost a kid our first kidding season ... it was heartbreaking and horrible ... but you learn and you are able to help others through the tragedy :hug:


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

So sorry for what your going through, such heartbreak.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Now as you're treating them, however you choose to do it. Remember that nothing can stop them from shedding the disease in their birth fluids, placenta, and the kids are infected. Clamydia can grow in living cells, it's unique in that. You can't kill the living cell that contains the bacteria with antibiotics.

Also remember that it is zoonic disease and can be caught and carried by humans, cats, turkeys, rodents, ect. Thise is part of why it is difficult to get rid of. Most especially make sure that no pregnant humans are let near your goats or their birth fluids and new kids. They also can catch the aborting type of disease and lose their baby.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> I just sent two of the kids and one plecenta to get tested at New Bolton Research center. Meanwhile I am treating with bio-mycin.
> This experience by far has been the saddest one I have had to deal with, with my goats. I just about cried when I found the first nanny yesterday morning. She is such a good mama and was trying to get her babies to stand up, she kept calling to them and licking them then she would look at me and maaa like she was asking me to help her. It took me a little bit to figure out what was going on and that the kids were not going to make it. so I soon took them out of the pen so that she would not keep crying and trying to get them to respond. How sad! I was so discouraged. You guys have helped me to see that this can be dealt with and we can try again.
> It was funny when the vet was here and I was asking him all kinds of questions he kept saying " it's sounds like that forum you are on is really helpful you should ask them" So thank you all. I appreciate all the advice I have gotten, even though I did not respond personally to all I keep going back and reading all the advice that was given. I want to keep learning........ Thanks


 :hug: Prayers that you can cure them and they have a lot of healthy kids next year!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm sad for you just reading this. I'm so sorry, I can read the pain you feel in the words you write. Sending you a big hug!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

5 days at the treatment dosage, or you can treat for many days at a preventive dosage. Do not treat for more than 5 days at the higher treatment dose. 

If you have does that aren't due for 3 or 4 weeks you can treat them again with the treatment dosage in 21 days or so, or you can put your herd on a preventive dosage a couple weeks after you finish the biomycin and continue this daily until everyone has kidded. For preventive dosages use the 4G crumbles daily. Talk to your vet about preventive dosages, but I beleive it is 5mg per lb of body weight of animal. that is half the treatment dosage. 

Unfortunately, I think you will need to treat next year as well. You can treat your herd 30 days before you breed, especially first timers that you have chosen to keep. But you will probably need to treat 6 to 8 weeks before they are due to kid. I figure it is cheaper to treat than to loose your kids or have weak kids born. 

Good luck. Remember, try not to panic. Many herds deal with this. Many just treat every year.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

20kidsonahill - why so much treating? Does chlamydia keep coming back?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

goathiker said:


> Now as you're treating them, however you choose to do it. Remember that nothing can stop them from shedding the disease in their birth fluids, placenta, and the kids are infected. Clamydia can grow in living cells, it's unique in that. You can't kill the living cell that contains the bacteria with antibiotics.
> 
> Also remember that it is zoonic disease and can be caught and carried by humans, cats, turkeys, rodents, ect. Thise is part of why it is difficult to get rid of. Most especially make sure that no pregnant humans are let near your goats or their birth fluids and new kids. They also can catch the aborting type of disease and lose their baby.


This is why such a long treatment.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

milkmaid said:


> 20kidsonahill - why so much treating? Does chlamydia keep coming back?


the short answer is, Yes.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

so I treated them all with bio mycin 5cc per 100lbs. for five days. I finished a week ago now I am getting ready to start them on the 4G crumbles. What dose should I use? The lab said they have not found any results that would show Chlamydia or Toxiplamosis but they did find four different kinds of bacteria in the aborted kids lungs. I am hoping the bio-mycin has taken care of this.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

*Longer term prevention dosage:*
We were using 1 lb of the 4g crumbles per every 13 adult does, They averaged 120 to 150lbs each. one time a day. The package does give a treatment level of 10 mg active ingredients per lb of animal, obviously for a prevention level(long term) you would be using less than that. That is the amount we were using.

I did research and came up with a number of 200mg of chlorotetracyclene per head per day for the last 4 to 6 weeks of gestation. 4g crumble contains 4,000 mg per 1 lb of product. So clearly my recommendation of 1 1b of product for 13 adults is a little too high according to this. If you go with this number you would be feeding 1/2 lb per every 10 adult animals daily.

Make note, that I am not a vet. You should consult with your vet about dosages.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

*Treatment dosage:*
recommended treatment level of 10 mg of active ingredients per lb of body weight would give you 10 x 120lbs(for a 120 lbs goat) = 1,200 mg of chlorotetracyclene(active ingredients), so they would get 1/4 of a lb for 120 lb goat for a treatment. That would be per day for 5 days. 
You get the idea. Hope that helps, I use a food scale and measure one time, and mark a small cup so I can use it daily.


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## goat lady (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks 20kidsonahill! I was struggling with the math.


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## AkanJack01 (Sep 18, 2017)

Assuming the premature kid that was delivered was alive what treatment can one administer?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

This post is from almost 5 years ago.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You should post a new thread with your question. I've never dealt with premies so I'm not much help.


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