# Issues with young LGD



## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a 9 month old Maremma puppy. I got him when he was 2-3 months old — he has slept in an open wire crate in the goat stalls since I got him. I let him out supervised in the stalls with the goats when he was young, and gave him positive reinforcement when he showed submission to the goats (crouching down, putting on happy ears, etc). Until he was around five months old, he went out in a 10x10 kennel during the day — I then transitioned him to a long tie out in the goat field. At that time it was kidding season, and other than being overactive (which I attributed to him just being a puppy), he seemed to do very well with the babies. Once all but the two babies I retained had gone to their new homes, I let Grif (my LGD) out loose in the goat field. At that point he was 6 or 7 months old. I supervised him for the first day and he did extremely well. He trotted alongside the herd, and when he wasn’t with them, he relaxed under the pole barn type shelter that is in the field. I was thrilled with how well he was doing.
On July 10th, my elderly (disbudded) LaMancha doe turned up with a lame knee. I couldn’t see any marks of any kind except a little hairlessness and a lot of swelling — I figured she’d been snagged by somebody’s horn, since she’s usually at the bottom of the pecking order. I had to travel out of the country the next day and made sure the girl who took care of the animals kept an eye on her. She messaged me a couple days later and said she’d caught Grif grabbing the goat’s knee in his mouth and dragging her. I had her lock him back in the 10x10 kennel and not let him loose with the goats. When I got home, I put him back out with them, and checked on him frequently. During one check, I found the LaMancha off away from the herd with him, and she had cuts on her knees, clearly from his teeth. Since then he has been on his tie out in the field during the day, and has not been allowed out loose with the goats. Yesterday, however, his collar snapped open while I was in town. I came back to find him gnawing on and grappling with the front legs of my poor (also elderly and disbudded) Nigerian doe — I reprimanded him quite harshly, put him in the 10x10 and worked with the poor Nigerian. He had also reinjured the LaMancha doe, and had caught and pulled the feathers off of several guinea fowl. This last time was the first time I have actually been able to catch him in the act, so it’s the first time I’ve actually been able to punish him. He is extremely subdued now — he is a highly intelligent dog (almost freakishly so), and is incredibly loyal and sweet. I took him out on a leash this morning and we stood nearby the goats for awhile — I made him sit to reinforce that he should be calm around them.

This is my first LGD — I’ve held off on getting one for the past 8 years precisely because I was afraid of them eventually turning on the goats. I admittedly haven’t put much training into this dog, because he took to the whole process so naturally. Now he is going through some strange shift, and I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to trust him with my babies. I plan to not let him loose with them (or even on a tie out) unless I am present the entire time. I will take him on a leash to be near the goats, and hopefully encourage him to be calm around them. He seems to only prey on the timid and slow moving goats, but I know that could change as he gets bolder.

I would appreciate any suggestions, as I just don’t know what to do. Is this a phase he will outgrow? Is there anything I should do as far as training? I’ve looked into dangle sticks and want to buy one — does anyone have any resources where I can get one? Thanks so much!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There are quite a few threads on here with some good info. I don't have an LGD.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Just a shot in the dark here, could he be teething?
Does he have stuff to chew on?
Maybe invest in a shock collar. I had a dog who for some reason picked on the only Nubian in the herd. The collar broke him of that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

He's just moving into his teenage stage. LGD are very slow maturing. He should not have been turned loose with the herd until at least age 2 years.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Double post


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He needs close constant supervision.
If you are "not" able to watch him, lock him away from the goats. 
He may or may not be ruined. 
If a dog draws blood or injury, it may be too late and the dog may be ruined. 
But try this:
Get a shock collar put it on him properly and zap him, when he even starts to think about any wrong doing. Say a stern "No~!"
Watch, correct him when needed. 
Work with him daily.


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## thespottedgoat (Feb 3, 2018)

We have Great Pyrenees. We bred them for years...and yes they do mature slowly. As of last year, we retired all of our adults and kept a male from our last litter. He is now 18 months old and still acts puppyish. These dogs look at goats as their playmates. This is how we work with Beau. He stays in a large pen inside the doe paddock during the day. At night, when our goats are locked in the barn, Beau is out and on duty. He runs the fence and barks all night...we have coyotes in our neck of the woods. So, he's with the goats but he can't get personal with them. If we are working around the barn, he gets free time with the goats under our watchful eye. A strong "NO" and the the crack of a horse whip works quite well if he gets out of line. There's no way I would leave him unsupervised. Most LGD's have a "strong constitution" which makes them good at what they do but they have to be trained. Unfortunately some never get their diplomas and have to be assigned to night duty only. We use llamas in our other paddocks.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, not all will be hired for unsupervised goat duty.
But with training most do succeed, if you are on top of it.


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## BorderKelpie (Mar 27, 2016)

My Anatolians are just under 2 years old. I still have the occasional stupid playful chase behavior. They (usually just Sage) will get tethered or kenneled for a day or two, then put back out supervised.
Your pup is a baby and needs guidance. You wouldn't expect a child to do an adult's job, same thing for a pup. He will figure things out with time and training on your part. Maybe put him and a bossy goat or two in a yard together. I have a tacky tempered doe that have taught my girl some manners. After she reminded Banner of her manners, Banner has been perfect. hmmm, I need to pen Melissa up with Sage, that'll teach her....lol


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## wwfarm (Jan 27, 2014)

I am having the same problem with my young Great Pyrenees male puppy. I bought him at 3 months of age along with a 2 month old female from the same breeder but a different litter. The breeder also "loaned" me 18 month old trained "Tank" to assist with the emergency situation we were having with wild dogs. I have had the dogs now for 8 months.

The female is terrific--great guard dog already and gentle with the herd. We have had the same issues with the male pup that you are having. I agree with Nancy and goathiker--getting them lots of chew toys and letting them have ample play time with my other dogs has helped as well as realizing these dogs take a long time to mature. The breeder told me that they will mature around 3! so I am trying to remember that! However, what has helped the most is the adult dog (as much of an adult that he can be at only 2) redirecting the pup! It is amazing to watch him jump on and tackle the male puppy (Samuel) when he starts to chase the goats. I too only allow him out with the does supervised--the bucks and weathers hold their own against him and he quickly learned not to mess with them.

It has gotten much better as they have grown so hang in there. They do an incredible job for us at night with the perimeter fence and it makes all the frustration worthwhile.


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