# Goats not gaining weight - HELP!



## jekrymo (Dec 25, 2015)

I am at my wits end. I'm no stranger to goats but I do believe i have a problem I can't quite put my finger on. First a little backstory so you'll understand the full scope of this.

Way back when I raised my first Nubian kid I had zero problems. All he got was two flakes of hay a day and grain twice a day, in fact he got over weight and I had to cut back. He grew to be an impressive size by the time he was 2.

Fast forward to last kidding season. Unfortunately, I wasn't as up to snuff on my parasite management as I am now. So I neglected to give my doelings anything to prevent coccidia. MISTAKE. So this is what I attributed the stunted growth rates of my three doelings and two bucks who were kids that year. 
Well, those does are all yearlings now (the bucks are 2 and still not quite filled out) and I am sorry to say they're still behind, but I don't attribute all this to those pesky parasites. You see, all these goats, including my two dry mature milkers, are sharp to the touch. Run your hand along their backs and you'll feel sharp bone. Not to mention when I took one of the yearlings to the breeder her kid buck was nearly as tall. I have a yearling Nubian purchased from another herd and she stands a couple inches taller, and is much longer and filled out than her same age counterparts. But all these animals, despite beign fed a 1lb of grain a head each day and getting the hayrack loaded each morning and night(this has been done for 2 months. Before that they were all out on pasture with some hay and minimal grain) they're all still bony to the touch.

What concerns me the most are my two Nubian doelings. They'll be a year in January and March, these were purchased from another clean herd, some of the highest genetics I have. And despite their age they both don't seem anywhere near where I feel they should be, they're not much taller than past my knees. The yearling I purchased from the same farm was almost full grown when she was a year and 2 months. These kids get 2+ lbs grain a day and free choice hay. All this and like the others they're sharp to touch.

Everything had fecals done recently. All the egg counts were plenty low (I dewormed this summer). And everyone with the exception of the kids had a copper boluse this summer as well. 

As a side note, out market kids from the fair this year, born in Feb. and weighed in early August, were fed grain almost conitnously, bare minimum was twice a day, and weighed in at the fair >60lbs. That makes no sense.

What am I doing wrong? I'm so afraid of ruining the good animals I have but I can't think of what else I could possibly do. Every time I attend a show I'm baffled at how fat everyone else can keep even their milkers but I'm struggling to even keep a decent condition. If anyone can read between the lines and tell me where you think I might be missing something PLEASE let me know! I'm so desperate for answers!

Thanks in advance!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

What kind of hay are you feeding, and what is the protein and fat % of the grain? Is their cocci under control now?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

What kind of grain are they getting? Any pictures? Any other medications given? Loose minerals? Bose? 

I was just reading about how people are having trouble with their goats keeping weight on after cocci treatments because the lining of their intestines gets all messed up and they can't absorb nutrients well anymore. I hope that's not the case!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Cocci stunts growth and as indicated, will mess with the stomach lining so they cannot absorb nutrients. This is permanent if left untreated for too long. If that is the case, they won't ever grow to their true potential unfortunately, no matter how fed. Some may put on some weight, but it depends of damage done from cocci.

What kind of grain and hay is being fed? 

Have you treated and re-tested them for worms and cocci?


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## jekrymo (Dec 25, 2015)

Cocci isn't an issue currently. I did treat the yearlings (NOT kids) with Corid once when they were young. I haven't used it since, that stuff is awful for goats. Anything else I've done with Cocci I've used Di-Methox. If this is the case with the yearlings, then I can understand why they're growth is ruined. BUT - does a stunted growth account for failure to gain weight and stay bony? As I said even my mature milkers, that I got from other farms, are pretty darn thin for dry does.

I typically don't do free choice mineral (but I did start offering it to my kids as I'm so concerned about them and I'm running out of things to try). Their feed used to be a special milk from the local mill, I think it was 12 or 16% but recently I've switched them to my own mix which is very similar to what they were getting before. (its a corn and oats base, with BOSS, soybeans, pellets, and loose minerals)

Their hay is just a grass hay, later cutting. I usually don't fret terribly about my hay- some people say it really matters what kind and other people say it doesn't help with conditioning its only a "filler." 

Here are some pics I snapped tonight, the black doeling will be a year January 31 and the spotted one will be a year in March or April. Do they seem shockingly small? I did a quickie on the bathroom scale to get weight and it said they were only 60lbs+:-o Not sure how reliable that reading is. Nonetheless here's a way you can see their sizes. 

At this stage do you think its possible for them to catch up if I make a drastic change? I would like to show them in June but is that enough time for them to bulk up?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, if they have coccidia it attacks their intestinal lining, causing scarring and decreasing their area of absorption of nutrients. So yes- coccidia will cause failure to not only grow, but failure to gain weight 

Why do you feel that corid is horrible? Did it not work for you? 
Kids should be on coccidia prevention until they are well grown, 90+lbs. Starting at 3 weeks old and dosing them with medication every 3 weeks. 

As far as your milkers, they could have coccidia, or it could just be they weren't fed enough high quality feed while in milk. To have a milk do you have to know how to feed them or they will get very bony. 
Having free choice minerals is very important as well for growth.

Yes, they are very small for coming yearlings, they should be in the 90lb+ range for their ages right now. At 60lbs they are about the same size as my 2 month olds. 

What kind of hay are they getting an when were they weaned? There is still hope for them to grow, but do not expect them to be big. 26-28" at the withers and about 110-120lbs is about all I would expect them to reach. 

For right now I would see if you can get some shots of MultiMin90 from the vet, and get a bottle of vitamin AD-E300 to give them. MultiMin90 has zinc, copper, selenium, and manganese. Zinc is crucial for DNA function, selenium is a good antioxidant, and copper is good for them in many ways; paired with the vitamin ad-e and it really helps them along. 
I would also get some rumen boluses (yeast and probiotic blend) and give them that. Get your kids on alfalfa hay if not already and give them at least 2lbs of grain a day. And I would go ahead and treat them again for cocci.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Yes, if they have coccidia it attacks their intestinal lining, causing scarring and decreasing their area of absorption of nutrients. So yes- coccidia will cause failure to not only grow, but failure to gain weight
> 
> Why do you feel that corid is horrible? Did it not work for you?
> Kids should be on coccidia prevention until they are well grown, 90+lbs. Starting at 3 weeks old and dosing them with medication every 3 weeks.
> ...


 I highly agree, well put.

Alfalfa is the best hay to give for growth believe it or not. Feeding as you have, isn't going to do much if they are thin, plus stunted. It may help some but if it was cocci and the lining of their stomach is scarred, they may get a bit bigger growth wise, but maybe not too, it should fill them in a bit more, depending if they are cocci and worm free as well. Alfalfa is also really good for milkers. The grain being corn base isn't the best for them, does nothing, it also can be very difficult to digest. 
The grain should be a good 16% protein, such as noble goat grower or equivalent. A Calf manna is another good milk pellet and helps with weight gain. Beet pulp shreds can help as well. If you do introduce any of these, do it gradually then increase as time goes on. 
Any feed you choose for growing goats is important. Some lower grade feeds have nothing in them to help in your situation.


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## jekrymo (Dec 25, 2015)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Yes, if they have coccidia it attacks their intestinal lining, causing scarring and decreasing their area of absorption of nutrients. So yes- coccidia will cause failure to not only grow, but failure to gain weight
> 
> Why do you feel that corid is horrible? Did it not work for you?
> Kids should be on coccidia prevention until they are well grown, 90+lbs. Starting at 3 weeks old and dosing them with medication every 3 weeks.
> ...


Thank you so much for your insight! Very helpful!

I've heard from several people that Corid doesn't work well on goats and can block B vitamin absorption. When I have used Corid myself I found it to be pretty ineffective.

These doelings were given Di-Methox when they were weaned, as a preventative measure, by the breeder. I had the vet do fecals last month from each of these does. She said their count was low and the only thing notable was that the cocci count was slightly high for the black one, so I gave them both Di-Methox for a little more than a week. So, based on that, I would think that their cocci _should_ be under control. But if it won't hurt...maybe I should give them a "booster" every so often? Is cocci becoming immune something I should be concerned about?

I will speak to my vet right away about getting them on some mineral shots and probiotics, plus changing their hay.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Sounds like you are on the right track. I personally use Multimin90 and pair it with the vitamin AD-E300 and love the results, it helps control mineral deficiencies, help kids grow, kids are born stronger and it also really helps sick goats because of the boost of zinc and the antioxidants. If you have enough goats, I would buy the 100ml bottle, cost me about $75, well worth it. Dosage for goats is 1cc per 100lbs, and I do 2cc of the vitamin AD-E300 with it. 

Unless your specific goats have coccidia in them that have a resistance to amprolium, Corid will work for them.
Corid doesn't deplete or block vitamin B absorption unless you give them very high amounts for a long time causing them to develop polio. But when I use Corid I dose it at the rate of 1cc per 4lbs, straight from the bottle, I do not dilute it and that is the dosage that works here. So unless you dose them higher than that for a lot longer than 5 days, you will be just fine. Too much of anything, even grain can give them polio, so it's nothing against Corid, just a rumor that has been spread. 

I think just to make sure you got the cocci, I would treat them again, and again in 10 days. You should be good after that, but it is a good idea to recheck every now and then. 
I haven't had any fecals ran in so long, I don't know if cocci is like worm eggs and their egg count doesn't show up well in the winter, so I will let someone else chime in on that. But if it is like that, their count could be even higher. 

A feed I really like now for growing kids is called JuniorGlo by ADM feeds, I buy it online through True Value hardware and it ships to the store for free. I also use the GroStrong minerals that ADM makes, mine love it and seem to be doing really well on it.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Worm loads usually show low in the winter months, since the females slow down egg production. I would not go 100% on a clean fecal this time of year.

You could try adding a fat supplement to their feed. I use Rice bran meal. I try to give them 5% fat in their diet each day.

You can buy medicated goat feed that gives them a daily level of cocci prevention meds. I also use Baycox when they are young and not eating enough grain to meet the level of cocci meds in the grain needed to keep cocci at bay.


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## islandpets (Jan 1, 2015)

i guess you are in US and i am in UK but in Scotland our animals are exposed to lots of mineral deficiencies so i seem to have a textbook knowledge on them now. a ruminant suffering a *cobalt deficiency* will lose weight despite an adequate diet as cobalt is needed by the rumen bugs to produce Vit b12- needed for cell growth among other things. we provide licks but some animals dont use them so i give a drench to the goats every month in the winter (but you may notice i have also posted about weight loss problems in my goats but it is reserved to winter time- so far they have picked up every summer).
As well at Vit B12 Vit B1 (thiamine) is considered important. again we are deficient here so i supplement orally and inject sick animals, esp if antibiotics are given (as the drug kills rumen bugs that make Vit b1)
Your vet could do a blood test to see if your goats have a deficiency but i did just that and i think Vit b12 is inconclusive as it can give a false high reading as far as i recall. }
B vitamins supplements are always a good thing and you can not overdose them as the body does not store them. 
hope that helps your goats (for the winter i am now on a daily dosing of vit c, b1 and b12 for my inappetant girls  )


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Except B6... Too much B6 is stored and can cause brain damage...

Corn is a pretty low quality food, low on protein and vitamins. It is high in sugars and fats but, not much else going for them. Raw soybeans are upwards of 20% fat, that's a lot for a ruminate, too much... I'd say their intestines are coated with excess oil and not absorbing any of their water and most of their feed. 
Home mixed grains must also be paired with alfalfa. They don't contain the calcium carbonates and fiber fillers that feeds do.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree...I'd change up the feed. What works for me is...2 parts alfalfa pellets, 1 part sweet feed, 1/2 part calf manna, 1/2 part beet pulp and 1/2 part whole oats.
My full size girls when in full milk get 4 cups alfalfa, 2 cups sweet, 1 c calf manna, 1 c beet pulp and 1 c whole oats TWICE a day when on the stand.This is in addition to all the grass hay they want and loose minerals. 

Also, they get copper bolused every 3-4 months... and I use selenium/e gel monthly.

This keeps them a good weight when in milk...when DRY they get 2 c alfalfa, 1c sweet, 1/2 beet pulp and 1/2 whole oats daily...this usually will keep weight up unless there is a problem (ie:worms,cocci,gut issue) 

Another thought....have you deloused them? If they have lice, that can cause poor condition as well.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

goathiker said:


> Except B6... Too much B6 is stored and can cause brain damage...
> 
> Corn is a pretty low quality food, low on protein and vitamins. It is high in sugars and fats but, not much else going for them. Raw soybeans are upwards of 20% fat, that's a lot for a ruminate, too much... I'd say their intestines are coated with excess oil and not absorbing any of their water and most of their feed.
> Home mixed grains must also be paired with alfalfa. They don't contain the calcium carbonates and fiber fillers that feeds do.


I agree -that grain does not sound like a good goat mix, I was thinking the same.
Just be sure to make changes gradually, but I think you should notice weight improvement within 6 weeks.


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## jekrymo (Dec 25, 2015)

Nope, lice aren't an issue this year, and haven't been for quite some time.

Oh boy this is getting really complicated really fast.

The feed mix I'm using now mimics a feed blend I've used for years and many local people who use it on their animals say they've had success. Since I'm on a fairly tight budget (full time college student, part time minimum wage job) I would _realllllly_ like to try and make this feed work by giving them adequate supplements. If its really so difficult to keep these girls in good enough condition to show, and so expensive, I might not be able to keep doing this much longer.

It's just that no one I've ever come across in the goat world around here has had this kind of problem and their feeding programs seem so simple.

I've talked to so many people on feed and everyone has a different formula that all seem to be yeilding the same results, I've just never given much thought to changing hay quality or mineral supplements except at birth. I'm hoping that's the leading factor.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I think trying what Lacie suggested is a good start...I'd think after doing that you should see improvement within a few weeks if it's going to help.
2 lbs should be plenty of feed...

The only other thing I can think of is tapeworm. I'd treat with Valbazen at 1cc per 10 lbs for THREE CONSECUTIVE days to see if that helps. I had a doe that wouldn't gain...I never saw tapes, but treated her anyway...and it worked.


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