# Treating UC with Apple Cider Vinegar



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

I have a 10 week old Nigerian Dwarf (male). I'm new to this and not good with the terminology yet. 
He passed some sort of stone last night and is urinating a stream now. However, I am trying to do some antibiotics and a Apple Cider Vinegar drench to help break up stones.. I am unsure how to measure and administer the drench though.. Can anyone give me some pointers please??


----------



## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I think you would need to do ammonium chloride. I'm not sure why you'd do the antibiotics but, don't stop now that you'd started. It's very important that you finish the proper antibiotic treatment.


----------



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

I did decide to AC. And I have not started Pen G. I purchased it this morning. I read a lot on here about incorporating an antibiotic. Just seemed logical??


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, get ammonium chloride instead, if he has stones it is crucial to rid them right away, before he gets blocked. You were very lucky he passed one, that is very rare in bucks. Antibiotics do not need to be used for UC.

Is he acting OK otherwise?


----------



## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Antibiotics should only be used if there's an infection. If he doesn't have a fever I wouldn't personally use antibiotics, it builds up antibiotic resistance to use them more often than needed.


----------



## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

I'd get him started on Ammonium Chloride and keep at it. I just lost my whether to urinary stones last month and it was a miserable process that I was not prepared to handle. I think if I could have started drenching him with Ammonium chloride sooner it might have helped. Hope everything goes well with your goat. 

If you don't already know, urinary stones are caused by an imbalance of phosphorus and calcium in your feed. (The correct ratio is 2:1 calcium to phosphorus.) You might want to check out what you're feeding and adjust accordingly. I thought I was feeding my goats well - they had loose mineral, lots of grass and hay when they needed it, and all that - but my buck and whether were eating the turkeys' scratch grain (a seed mix), which, I didn't realize until much later, is high in phosphorus. If you have other male or neutered goats eating the same stuff as your buck, then I would recommend top dressing their feed with some ammonium chloride as well - that's what I'm doing with my buck in the hopes of preemptively dissolving any stones that he was likely developing along with my poor whether.


----------



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

He is urinating and his demeanor seems to be back to normal. I have kept a close eye on him. 
-I gave him 1 dose of less than 1cc of Pen G today sub Q. Not a good experience for either of us but I was told by other sources to do that. Should I not keep up the Pen G now that I started or stop??
-Also I mixed the smallest scoop provided in the container of AC with yogurt and started his drench this morning.. Should I be doing that once a day or twice a day???
- I have him on Thomas Moore grain and will be monitoring his consumption more closely. Got him a fresh bale of coastal and a mineral salt block. I am refreshing has water more ofter as well. He is grazing on grass.
- His pizzle seems to be hard and possibly has crystals still??? It almost looks swollen and has an area that look similar to banded.. Not sure what that means or what normal is regarding the pizzle.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to look at the total diet. Between your costal hay and eating grass that is more phosphorus. You need to calcium. Alfalfa will up the calcium.


----------



## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

I usually give 15ml in syringe of ACV with a tad bit of organic sugar mixed into it every few days and my wethers really like it. I use to give it in their water every few days but now I just drench instead because it works better for me and I know they are getting it(we have a little stream/pond in their pen and it seems they choose that over the bucket if the water in the bucket tastes funny even if it is sugar ACV water lol). I think I would also use ammonium chloride at this point because its going to break the stones down quickly and thats what you want right now. If you can get through this and break the stones down I would continue with the AC for a month or two and then switch back to larger consistent doses of ACV. 
His pizzle should not be swollen but since he's battling stones this can happen,they scratch and cause blockage and pain so it would make sense its swollen you man want to try an ant-inflammatory to help the swelling go down making it easier to pass the stones if he is indeed swollen. As for what his pizzle should look like, it should be a healthy pinkish color. Im glad he's peeing, he definitely need to be peeing. If he ever stops peeing completly and starts straining and can't get anything out you will need to take him to a vet and try to surgically remove the blockage...I do not want to scare you but if he stops peeing completely but seems normal his bladder may have erupted causing temporary relief and comfort and you need to take him to a vet to confirm ASAP because at this point there's nothing you can do. I'm praying your little guy makes a full recovery!!!!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What does your goat weigh? Pen G is 1cc per 10 lbs 2x a day for 5 to 7 days. Once you start antibiotics you need to follow through. It wasn't necessary to start if he wasn't ill, but you have already began treatment.

Mineral blocks are no good, it must be loose salt and minerals for best results.

Yes, you need ammonium chloride. Make sure he continues to pee. If he stops, take him to the vet ASAP.


----------



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

I have been told so many things!
On one hand I am told to use coastal and not alfalfa and the next person tells me to use alfalfa and not coastal.
I have no clue what to do. My breeder makes a grain, alfalfa mineral, seed mix for goats.. I guess I need to go back to that


----------



## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Everyone feeds differently depending on the individual needs of their goat. The most important thing you can do is make sure that you're doing what works for you in your individual situation,and at this point your priority needs to be to make sure you're getting the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio.

As for the antibiotics, it wasn't needed to start them but now you need to follow through on the full course as described earlier.


----------



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

I wish I wouldn't have done it. I hate administering them. 
He eats Thomas Moore goat & sheep feed.. There is zero info on the bag... What's he getting from the grain?? And how much of the grain should I allow daily


----------



## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Is this the stuff?

http://www.thomasmoorefeed.com/our-products/barnyard/sheep-goat-16-dq/

Our five month old doelings get 8 ounces of 16% grain/pellets daily, plus about three times as much chaffhaye and a small handful of BOSS. They also get free choice Bermuda mix hay, goat loose minerals, and acv in their water. But since they're both girls I don't worry as much about uc. There are feeds with AC in them for bucks.


----------



## leebrittany (Jan 6, 2016)

He has seen the vet. She cut his pizzle that was full of crystals. We discussed his diet and medications. Continuing AC drench and pen G for a week. And cutting grain completely for the time being. He is currently urinating and I am keeping a close eye on him. Thanks for everyone help!
He started to block again and was very comfortable, so I took him right away yesterday afternoon.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope he recovers for you.


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Any feed that is made for sheep has no added copper in it, so you will need to add copper in your goats diet from another source-loose minerals or copper bolus


----------

