# What do you all think??



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

What do you all think that of this buck??










Old Castle Blue

Born 03-02-07

Black and White with BLUE EYES

Sire: CTC Moonshadow Viva La Bam

Dam: Phantasma ZT Aphrodite

For Sale as a Proven Buck

Pictures and info courtesy of Jackson Earl Ranch


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Um, honestly I don't really like him. He looks to have quite a steep rump and he looks pretty weak on his pasterns. . . . I don't really care for the Old Castle herd but that is just my humble opinion. I wouldn't buy him but it's your herd.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Ooooooo :drool: He is a nice long boy...and those eyes with that color is really striking!! The rump looks steep but it could be the pic as e is "on the move" in it.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

you cant see his pasterns in that picture as he is on rocks and as Liz says he is on the move.

I would be more concerned about his dams udder and if his kids have done well in shows


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

......i don't think those are rocks.....


but .. something about him seems... odd... it you could get a posed picture and see waht his kids look like and if any are in milk


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

rocks, rocky dirt, muck whatever it is -- doesnt matter, that fact that it obscures the ability to see his pasterns correctly is what matters


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## jordan (Nov 22, 2007)

Just the fact that this person is claiming that he is a "proven" buck would make me run for the hills! A buck is not proven until you see numerous daughters freshen!! Doubtful out of a buck born last year.
What do you know of his dam's udder? Either of his grand dams? Have you seen udders out of his sire?
:hair: I'm going to step up on my soapbox for a second here...
A BUCK IS 50% OF YOUR HERD!!!! Color and/or blue eyes mean nothing!! Buy the absolute best you can afford and pay very close attention to the points mentioned above (udder genetics) as well as correct conformation and dairy character. It doesn't matter if you are breeding for pets, show or milk if you plan on selling a single kid out of your buck. There are enough very average/poor ND's out there already that people don't need to encourage more being bred by buying mediocre animals.
Stepping down now... :GAAH: 

Can you get a decent pic of him standing? Information on his udder genetics?


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i think its cow poop.. ewwww... :worried: 

but from his front foot, the only one not moving.. it looks low.. so i would say another picture is needed before we can determine


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

and i think by proven, they mean he's a stud, not a dud


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Exactly, SDK...A stud...not everyones idea of "proven" is the same :wink:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

jordan said:


> Just the fact that this person is claiming that he is a "proven" buck would make me run for the hills! A buck is not proven until you see numerous daughters freshen!! Doubtful out of a buck born last year.
> What do you know of his dam's udder? Either of his grand dams? Have you seen udders out of his sire?
> :hair: I'm going to step up on my soapbox for a second here...
> A BUCK IS 50% OF YOUR HERD!!!! Color and/or blue eyes mean nothing!! Buy the absolute best you can afford and pay very close attention to the points mentioned above (udder genetics) as well as correct conformation and dairy character. It doesn't matter if you are breeding for pets, show or milk if you plan on selling a single kid out of your buck. There are enough very average/poor ND's out there already that people don't need to encourage more being bred by buying mediocre animals.
> ...


yup thats what I agree on


StaceyRoop said:


> you cant see his pasterns in that picture as he is on rocks and as Liz says he is on the move.
> 
> I would be more concerned about his dams udder and if his kids have done well in shows


I think by proven they mean he can produce kids :wink:


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Totally 100% agree with Lois.

I personally do not care for him I agree there is an awkwardness to him.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

> [you cant see his pasterns in that picture as he is on rocks and as Liz says he is on the move.
> 
> 
> > I think a buck should look awesome when he is posed, standing naturally, on the move, whatever he's doing, he should look awesome, no matter what. I can see his pastern on the left front leg just fine and it looks quite weak to me.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Personally I don't like him at all, jmho. I think another post said something about him seems off. He just doesn't look buck quality to me. As another post said color and blue eyes don't make the buck, not saying that's what your after, just saying...it's a bonus when you get that on a nice buck. He definately looks to have a steep rump. What do his daughters look like? How are their udders? If it were me, i'd pass. He's cute, but not what I would look for in a herd sire.


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## Shelly (Oct 5, 2007)

> A BUCK IS 50% OF YOUR HERD!!!! Color and/or blue eyes mean nothing!! Buy the absolute best you can afford and pay very close attention to the points mentioned above (udder genetics) as well as correct conformation and dairy character. It doesn't matter if you are breeding for pets, show or milk if you plan on selling a single kid out of your buck. There are enough very average/poor ND's out there already that people don't need to encourage more being bred by buying mediocre animals.


I totally agree with this. When you look at him can you say he's better then your does? Will he improve your herd? Your buck should always be the best goat in your herd. After keeping does out of that buck for a couple of years you should need to buy a better buck to breed to them to keep improving your herd. Shelly


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Im going to have to agree with jordon on this one. A buck is fifty percent of your herd. one doe can produce one to an average of three kids (sometimes more) in one year. a buck can produce twenty or more if bred to enough does. you always want your buck to be better then your does. otherwise how is he siposed to improve youre genetics? The buck pictured is steep in the rump, looks to be posty and maybe its the way that his feet are trimmed but he does look down on his pasturns, not something you should see ina yearling. his neck is pretty short too. 
Sorry to be harsh I just wouldnt put much faith in him. even breeding for pet animals.
beth


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you all. 

That is why I posted him -as I was curious to your opinions. 

Here is my dilema. Joe and Lil man are leaving REAL soon. Which means who ever is not bred is going to have to wait till either January when I can purchase a new buck or when ever Turner decides that he is a buck and NOT a baby dog. I really wanted to get 3 of my registered does bred now, but I will not have the money to purchase a new buck until mid January.

The other issue is is that there are not any "quality" breeders real close. Most are 6 or more hours away from me, and in january it is going to be aweful around here with the roads and I really do not want to be traveling that far to pick up a full rutt buck in the back of my truck.

What do you all suggest? Any thoughts?

The only other really good breeder that I know of is the place that Joe Dirt came from and she is about 2 1/2 hours from me - NORTH. Which means bad roads and almost her entire herd is the creams and buckskins. I would like some color variance - although they are very nice looking goaties.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

depends on what your goal is with breeding --- do you want good pet quality goats or show quality?

Ask to see better pictures of him, ones of him standing still would be great --- set up would be awesome.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

That is quite a dilemma. I don't know how far this breeder is from you but here's a website for Nigerians in Idaho: http://www.harmonymtnranch.com/ Looks like she has pretty nice goats.

Here is someone that I talked with earlier this year (she desperately wanted to buy our pygmy buck). She's an awesome breeder of really quality animals and has Nigerians (at least she did when I talked with her). She's very, very sweet!! 
Dream Chaser Farms
Tamara Katzer
415 West Rd.
Jerome, ID 83338
(208) 324-2767
[email protected]

Again, don't know how far she is from you. . . . but hopefully it helps a little.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you Olivia - I will check them out and see what I find!

Allison


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

You're very much welcome. Let us know what you find out!


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## jordan (Nov 22, 2007)

Did you sell your other bucks? If so, can whoever purchased them wait a few weeks for delivery while you use them on the does you want bred?
I sold a buck about 8 weeks ago, but I told the woman who purchased him that I would not ship him until I had bred the two does I wanted to use him on. She was eager to have him, but willing to wait the 4 weeks I specified in order to get him at all. Once he bred the does, he was sent to his new home in GA where he is busy with a whole slew of new girls!
If your bucks have not been paid for in full (?), they are still yours to do with what you will.
I would rather not breed the does at all then to purchase a mediocre buck in order to accomplish nothing worthwhile. 
You might also want to consider taking some extra time/patience and saving up a little more money so you can ship a top quality udder buck in. You will earn more from the kids of an excellent buck than you ever will from an average one.
JMO
Good luck!
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you for the opinions. I greatly appriciate it.

I am looking at a few other bucks. I found one that peaked my interest - but again he is 8 hours away. If she gives permission, I will post the pics and the info on the 2 she has for sale.

It really is not about the money (although I don't want to pay over 400) as much as I can't do it till mid January and the roads are so bad whether it be to get to the airport to pick up (which can you imagine if I have a buck flown in how much they will hate me) or to drive to pick one up.

So we will see.

Yes, I am using Joe - but he was supposed to leave a bit ago - but they have been extremely patient with me and my girls not showing heats. But again - bad weather is coming so need to move soon.


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