# Pooch Test Questions - Attention Pros! =D



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I am a new goat owner. A few days ago, I posted some "pooch" pics in another thread and most people felt that my possibly-bred doe was indeed pregnant. I've read up about the test and thought I understood it well enough to agree.

I do realize there is no guarantee about this test is accurate. I just don't have an easy way to do a blood draw right now but I hope to do one as soon as I can.

Today, I took more pictures with my better camera (I'm INSANE) and her "pooch" looks different to me. It has changed a lot. Since I'm trying to learn how to recognize their cycles in addition to recognizing signs of pregnancy, I thought I'd post both pictures and get a general opinion from you more experienced folks.

ADDITIONALLY, I have a second goat that is not supposed to be bred, but she looks more "pregnant" to me than the one that I know has been with a buck. I'm thinking I've confused myself, but I'll post her photos as well. If this second doe is pregnant, she would be bred back to her father. So I have good reason to be concerned.

*THE FIRST THREE PHOTOS are of my possibly-bred doe. The first and second photos were taken maybe 3-4 days apart.*

*The LAST photo is my not-supposed-to-be-bred doe.*

What do you guys think? Bred or not? In heat, maybe? Nobody is acting needy and it isn't the right season, I realize. When you give your opinion, it'd be awesome if you'd tell me what you based in on? This will help me learn what to look for!

Thank-you all in advance. =)


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

They are both bred...


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

goathiker said:


> They are both bred...


Oh no. I am happy about the first, but I am concerned about the second as the only buck she's been near, has been her father. Since she has no udder development, then she wouldn't be far along would she?

Should I let her have the kid(s) since they are her father's?

Here's a top-down pic. She is equally large on both sides. Though the wind ruins the symmetry in this shot. It is reaaaally windy today.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Unless the buck has noticeable defects, it is fine. Many breeders use this method of line breeding to test for recessive genes in their buck.


----------



## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Oh yeah I'd say both bred. And yeah line breeding isn't bad as long as the buck has good history and no defects like goathiker said.


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok as I have put the pouch test into the same category of wives tells, explain to me again what you guys are seeing that leads you to think they are bred.


----------



## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah she is bred. Her pooch looks bred but she is also making an udder which is a dead give away on preggo or not!!! haha unless it's a virgin udder but that is very rare to happen


Sent from my iPod touch using Goat Forum


----------



## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I say yes to the doe in the first 3 pictures but I'm not so sure about the other doe. I'm going to say no or she is earlier than 3 months


----------



## Bertnut2 (Feb 9, 2014)

TDG-Farms said:


> Ok as I have put the pouch test into the same category of wives tells, explain to me again what you guys are seeing that leads you to think they are bred.


I am anxious to hear. I can't tell one from the other. It sounds terrible but "they all look the same-ish"

Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Bertnut2 said:


> I am anxious to hear. I can't tell one from the other. It sounds terrible but "they all look the same-ish"
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


I will definitely be updating you all when I know for certain. So many threads start off this way (I know, I've read them ALL) and then we never hear if the doe was pregnant or not! This thread will be there for others.

Do you think she's working on her udder? It just feels like teats attached to her belly. No "bag" or anything yet.


----------



## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Wripley said:


> I will definitely be updating you all when I know for certain. So many threads start off this way (I know, I've read them ALL) and then we never hear if the doe was pregnant or not! This thread will be there for others.
> 
> Do you think she's working on her udder? It just feels like teats attached to her belly. No "bag" or anything yet.


Well usually if bred there rear looks more relaxed. And the tip of te vulva should be pointin downward. Yes it is hard to tell with the pooch test but sometimes you can definitely tell by the pooch. The one in the first three pics looks definitely pregnant. But the one in the lat pic I'm thinkin she is pregnant as well. Also some does wait late on in pregnancy before their udders start fillin.

Sent from my iPod touch using Goat Forum


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians (Mar 27, 2014)

I'd say both does are bred. 

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 2 bucks.


----------



## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

TDG-Farms said:


> Ok as I have put the pouch test into the same category of wives tells, explain to me again what you guys are seeing that leads you to think they are bred.


I would have agreed with your assessment last summer, but I'm a believer now. Our weather was whacked last summer and I had problems with my does settling. As a last resort on trying to determine if they were bred or not, I spent a whole lot of time examining my girls 'pooches' last fall, and there is merit to the pooch test - it isn't an old wives tale. If you go out and look at your bottle doelings pooches you will notice a small, round protuberance at the end of their vulva. You will also notice that it is pointing outwards at a 45 degree angle to their body. Somewhere between a month to 2 months following conception(at least in my girls), the vulva starts relaxing and that little protuberance starts traveling in a downwards direction until it becomes vertical to the does body. At the same time, the anus starts traveling upwards until it becomes tucked up under the tail more tightly. It's the weirdest thing because you can actually track the vulva relaxing over the course of a week or two. Every doe in that pen had a relaxed vulva, and every doe kidded this past January. Doodlebug was a bit late, but she still kidded!


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank you all for looking and responding. Can any of you offer any input on how far along these does are? Even a blood test won't help me with that!


----------



## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't see udder development, so I'm going to say they are probably around 2 to 3 months bred. I've noticed with mine they have to be around 1 1/2 to 2 months for their vulva to relax like your's have, and they are usually beginning to bag up around 3 to 3 1/2 months.


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank-you. That is just the sort of answer I was looking for. These girls came from different places. Odd that they were likely bred around the same time. Will be interesting to see what comes of it all.


----------



## FullMoonFarm-Ky (Jan 15, 2014)

This thread was beneficial for me too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Wripley said:


> Thank-you. That is just the sort of answer I was looking for. These girls came from different places. Odd that they were likely bred around the same time. Will be interesting to see what comes of it all.


No problem! Every doe is different. I had one this past January that I honestly didn't think was bred despite her pooch saying otherwise. She didn't have the udder development going, she didn't have the increase of belly going, hell - she wasn't even dilating! Imagine my surprise when I went out to the pens one day and, not only had she kidded, she had triplets hidden in there somewhere! Granted, she is a good sized doe - but triplets? I have no idea where she had those kids stashed!


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

So today, I noticed that my most-likely-bred doe (the one that was with the buck from December to Mid-March) has a slightly purple hue to her vulva. It has always been pink before. 

Her lady bits have changed quite a bit in the last 48 hours. The normally pink skin on either side of her vulva is now "flush" with it. Does that mean anything? It doesn't look wrong or unhealthy. I am not concerned about that. She is active and eating (very) well.

I am concerned about knowing when she's getting "close" so I might be fully prepared. I guess I'm looking for a "Oh yeah, that happens in the last eight weeks" kind of response.

Also, she does not seem to have an udder yet.There is a slight 'fat pad' feel to the skin her teats are attached to. The teats look darker and longer than they did a month ago.

Will try to get a photo.


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

*Bred or Not? thread. Updated with Photos*

It has been more than a month since I posted my last "pooch" photos. I am updating this thread so people like me can follow along and learn from it. Most threads like this, just stop before we ever know if the goat was pregnant. I don't want to let that happen with this thread. Pictures taken today.

The first two photos are of Ruby (yes, her vulva and teats turned purple!). I know she was with the buck December through Mid-March. The second set of photos are of Jo-Jo. If she's pregnant, it happened through a chain-link fence.


----------



## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

They both look pregnant to me, their tips are pointing down which is a good indicator.


----------



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Had one of the goats pregnancy tested. My Nubian girl which had been with a buck from December into March is NOT pregnant. I am super-duper bummed!

Still need to pull blood on the other doe. I tried and failed. Giving her a break and trying again in the next few day. *sigh*


----------

