# Copper Bolus



## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

Hi again, sorry for so many questions. But..

I am pretty sure my goats need extra copper - one has a bit of fishtail and the other is black and her coat is turning red. 

I’ve already asked on here and it was evident my minerals could use extra copper, but was not able to find anything. I started giving the replamin gel just recently. 

I asked my vet about it and she said she has not come across copper deficiencies in my area and there is absolutely no need for copper bolus. But I am worried and my goats do have the signs. 


So, my questions are:

Should I bolus if I think necessary? Would it harm them otherwise? 

Is it safe to bolus all 6 of my goats including one that is pregnant? 

Where could I get one? The one on Jeffers seems to be for larger goats and mine are nigerian dwarfs. 

Thanks again!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Here are my thoughts, take it as you will.

Yes, almost all goats in the North American Continent are deficient in copper. This isn't something you are doing wrong. Domestic goats did not evolve here, so our naturally occurring minerals are not correct for them. No one's fault, it just is so.

Copper Oxide (the copper found in the boluses) is EXTREMELY safe. Yes, you can, and should, give it to your whole herd, including preggos.

The 2 gram boluses are only going to be a maintenance dose, so they will maintain the deficient status you now "enjoy". I'd give a 4 gram dose this time, then next time give the 2 gram dose, providing you give it before too bad of a deficiency.

They are VERY, VERY, safe to give. Boluses provide Copper OXIDE, which is a form that is extremely slow acting and slow release. This is why I feel very comfortable telling you that if you are this deficient, that the 4 gram dose is the way to go at the start, and then to cut back.

By way of comparison, I used to give the calf sized boluses, 12.5 grams, every 2 months, to everyone over 50 lbs, and I still could not keep up with the demand for copper.

It is very safe. And very necessary.


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Here are my thoughts, take it as you will.
> 
> Yes, almost all goats in the North American Continent are deficient in copper. This isn't something you are doing wrong. Domestic goats did not evolve here, so our naturally occurring minerals are not correct for them. No one's fault, it just is so.
> 
> ...


I was hoping you would tap in. Thank you!

The capsules at Jeffers are 4 grams. I wonder if I could open and re-capsule them. Or Ill try and search for a 2 gram.


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

Tab Carloni said:


> I was hoping you would tap in. Thank you!
> 
> The capsules at Jeffers are 4 grams. I wonder if I could open and re-capsule them. Or Ill try and search for a 2 gram.


They do have 2 gram actually, says its for kids. So I could get both


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Tab Carloni said:


> Ill try and search for a 2 gram


Or you can just use the 4 gram and not give more until you see a need.
Or you can use 2 of the 2 gram to start

Did I mention they are very safe?


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Or you can just use the 4 gram and not give more until you see a need.
> Or you can use 2 of the 2 gram to start
> 
> Did I mention they are very safe?


I think Ill buy both and just see how it goes after the dose of 4 g. This way I have both on hand


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Tab Carloni said:


> I think Ill buy both and just see how it goes after the dose of 4 g. This way I have both on hand


If it suits you, then it suits me.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I raise Nigerians and I give my goats all the 4 gram blouses. When I first started, I split them into 2 grams, but wasn't seeing enough of an impact. I do 4 grams every 3 months. Pregnant does too. I only bother with the 2 gram ones for young goats under a year old.

I used to buy the 4 gram ones and just divide them if I needed 2 grams, because the 4 gram ones were so much cheaper. Now I've started buying the calf blouses and dividing them, because that's even more cost effective.


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## NicoleV (Dec 12, 2015)

And a good bolus gun/baling gun is REALLY important. There's no way you can shove the capsule down their mouth without either getting your fingers chomped on or them chewing and spitting out the bolus. I spent the money to get the small metal one with 2 interchangeable ends from Jeffers. A cheapy calf one is still too big and won't hold the goat sized boluses. They metal one is indestructible!

Good for you that you recognized the symptoms despite your vet's "advise!"


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Tab Carloni said:


> They do have 2 gram actually, says its for kids. So I could get both


I have Nigerians also and the two gram boluses do not seem to be enough. I have gone to two months between bolusings, and it looks like when this jar is empty will be going up to four gram.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If at 4 months you still see signs, you can give another then.


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

NicoleV said:


> And a good bolus gun/baling gun is REALLY important. There's no way you can shove the capsule down their mouth without either getting your fingers chomped on or them chewing and spitting out the bolus. I spent the money to get the small metal one with 2 interchangeable ends from Jeffers. A cheapy calf one is still too big and won't hold the goat sized boluses. They metal one is indestructible!
> 
> Good for you that you recognized the symptoms despite your vet's "advise!"


Thanks for the tip!!


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

Does anyone else think it is ridiculous to pay 50-80 CAD for lets say around 50g-150g of copper? I mean the copper is around 3 dollars for scrape. I am struggling with putting the money down for a meagre amount of copper. anyone else feel this way?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I know it’s expensive and no you are not alone on your thinking but it sure is worth the end results giving it to the goats :/ 
Personally though I don’t waste my money on the goat copper bolus for goats. I buy the cattle ones and break them down to goat size. A fast break down on valleyvet prices it comes out to $0.50 a gram for the goats. For the 12.5 gram cattle bolus it is $0.17 a gram, for the 25 gram it is $0.13. I’m not sure how many goats you have so it might be a pretty big investment that will last you years but for me when I’m shoving 9 grams down each doe at anywhere from 40-70 does every 3-4 months I will take any savings I can get.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When I was bolusing, I never bought the tiny 4 gram or 2 gram sizes. I just couldn't stomach it at the amounts my goats needed. I bought the calf sized and bought empty gelatin capsules on Amazon, until I started having to just give them whole, because of the cumulative effect of all my antagonists. 

Finally I moved on to free choice copper. I'm about to try ABC minerals copper, soon as I sell a few more animals. But for now, what I'm doing is working.

I also got rid of my most needy animals, including the ones who could never seem to get enough minerals. That way of looking at who to breed and who to sell has been great for my bottom line.

Another thing that helped was learning how important a separate salt lick was for the incorporation and utilization of minerals. I'm not talking about my minerals having a high salt content, but a separate lick. Now I have various ones all over the place. So far, their favourite ones are Redmond mineral salts, but they use them all. When I started using Redmond, I stopped giving them kelp and that has helped me a lot, too, moneywise.

With enough copper in their systems, they won't need near the money and attention given normally to counteract parasite loads. Worming can be expensive too.

Anyway, I feel for you, especially since everything else is so expensive for you to get on your island. I no longer have to bolus, but I do remember the expense and trouble. But I do encourage you to try to get enough copper into them.


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> I know it's expensive and no you are not alone on your thinking but it sure is worth the end results giving it to the goats :/
> Personally though I don't waste my money on the goat copper bolus for goats. I buy the cattle ones and break them down to goat size. A fast break down on valleyvet prices it comes out to $0.50 a gram for the goats. For the 12.5 gram cattle bolus it is $0.17 a gram, for the 25 gram it is $0.13. I'm not sure how many goats you have so it might be a pretty big investment that will last you years but for me when I'm shoving 9 grams down each doe at anywhere from 40-70 does every 3-4 months I will take any savings I can get.


well ultra cruz the 25 gram x 25 count is 211 from amazon. so more like 0.34 a gram. this is all without shipping. copasure from jeffers is less at 79.99 American which would be more like 110 ca dollars plus shipping. so more like 0.16 without shipping.

I am thinking about asking at our local feed stores about horse copper supplements.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Will this go to Canada? Because this is much cheaper if you can get it, $80.00 USD, which is also a factor for you, different dollar?

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/copasure


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Valley Vet, I don't know if they ship to Canada, but I'd ask.
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2E87C213-7B6A-11D5-A192-00B0D0204AE5#tab-review

Letting your local stores know what you need/want/will buy from them is a great idea. They don't know if we don't say!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sorry for repeating what you had already written. For some reason, it wasn't there for me to see when I was writing.


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

I have tried to find additional copper as well, but no one has and I have been told there are new regulations that do not allow them to carry certain products. Sigh, I really wish it was as easy to obtain everything in the US here in Canada. I think I will bite the bullet this time for the bolus' because I don't want my girls getting worse. In the meantime I will try and find a copper supplement that I can add to my feed program. The bolus as least will give me peace of mind until then. If any Canadian's do see this and were successful at finding additional copper please let me know. I have tried everything. :bonk:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ZinPro operates in Canada, and has a high copper formula. Would you like help finding a representative for you? I've found that page before for other Canadian members here....


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Here is the copper supplement I was talking about. For some reason, the representative page isn't loading. Probably my poor internet.
https://www.zinpro.com/products/availa-mins/availa-cu


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

You had mentioned to me before and I found the rep for Ontario. I contacted him and he gave me a list of distributers but when I contacted them they all told me did not sell it ‍♀


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Here is the copper supplement I was talking about. For some reason, the representative page isn't loading. Probably my poor internet.
> https://www.zinpro.com/products/availa-mins/availa-cu


I will try again!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, I'm so sorry. I'd complain to your Ontario Representative again and tell him how disappointed you are that they won't distribute what they'll say they'll distribute...


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Oh, I'm so sorry. I'd complain to your Ontario Representative again and tell him how disappointed you are that they won't distribute what they'll say they'll distribute...


I am going to give it another try. Man, it should not be this difficult to find products needed to keep goats healthy lol! Thank you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is awful they do not sell it in Canada.


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## Tab Carloni (Jan 28, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> That is awful they do not sell it in Canada.


Right? At least Jeffers will ship some stuff - but with the exchange on our dollar and shipping costs its a hefty bill. Not cool!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(console)


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

I am currently looking into
http://www.animalhealthsupplies.com...copper-capsules-for-sheep-and-goats-2.5g.html
different size. and also you can get(2.5g) 100 of them for around 120 AUD with shipping
2.1*100 is 210
or i can get the cow sized(10g) one and get more copper for less.

about 100 AUdollars for 25 of them with shipping
8.6* 25 is 215

So after many calculator inputs.
For me the 25 pack of 10g was the best deal. I will have copper for years! The smaller sized ones cost way more per gram. somewhere around 0.72 compared to about 0.35 a gram with the package i went with.

so its about 98 dollars CAD shipped for 215g of copper oxide, which to me is a much better deal than what i was looking at from jeffers amazon account. from jeffers amazon account is was bout 50 USD for 24 2g bolus.


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