# Newbie at Conformation



## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

Hi, I am the owner of 2 year old Pygmies, but I don't show them. So, I haven't had a real reason to learn conformation. I've been wanting a Nubian show/dairy doe for a while now and that possibility keeps getting closer. I am eager to learn everything I need to know to do well in Showmanship and Dairy class. Is there anyone with pictures, experience, diagrams, or book recommendations out there? I could tell you basic things like a goat is too skinny/fat, too big of teats, scurs (bad horns), etc. I'll take any information I can get, though if anyone is an expert on Nubians, please share your thoughts. Thanks!:type:


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

Okey dokey, I'm going to enjoy this a ton. 
So, for a dairy goat you want your doe to be uphill(withers higher than the rump), a strong topline, a long and level rump, a long body, long lean dairy neck, straight front legs, nice front end assembly, angular rear legs(not posty, but not sickle either), nice depth, good body capacity, good blending throughout, a long bone pattern, I could go on and on... (I really wish I could do this in person, I use my hands a lot when I talk and explain)...

This is a link to the scorecard the judge _should_ be looking at:
http://adga.org/index.php?option=co...244:artshowscard&catid=87:cat-shows&Itemid=97

I'll pull up some diagrams, and if you have anymore specific questions, just ask.


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## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

Thank you! It's a lot to take in, but I'm already preparing myself for late night studying! Thank you!


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

No problem! Like I said, any questions, just ask!  This stuff is my kind of thing!


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

This is what a good dairy goat looks like. :greengrin:


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## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

Well, I can definitely see what your talking about. A lean neck, good legs, long body, etc. Could you explain how to judge kids. If I pick mine up, I'd prefer to understand if in the future she'll be okay or great. Like, how do you judge a baby's udder at a young age? Thanks!


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## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

By the way, gorgeous goat! A sure heart-stopper!


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

Well, since a kid doesn't have an udder, look at female relatives. Dam, sire's dam, siblings, grand dams, etc. If their udders aren't nice, then that'll get passed on. But everything is pretty much the same. Try to see the kid when it's not in a weird growth spurt, or understand that somethings can change. Sometimes the rear end will grow and the front hasn't caught up yet, so they won't be quite uphill... Somethings change, but things like weak pasterns and bowed legs won't.


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## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

Thank you. I do hope I'll be able to peek at other relatives. I am sorry but in the diagram above with the specialized areas, diagram number one, how do you read it? Is the number of points on the picture the amount of points given? Thanks for your help- I'm eager to learn!


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

The middle, or 25, is the one you want. They have the numbers for LA.


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## 4-HGoatGirl (Jul 5, 2013)

Thank you so much! Your knowledge shall help me pick out the best show addition I can. :stars: I am really excited for your help and can't wait to learn more! :book:


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

Emzi00 said:


> The middle, or 25, is the one you want. They have the numbers for LA.


25 is not always your goal - it depends on the trait.

Emzi00 = Who is the doe in your picture? I know who the person is, I was just curious who the doe is.

When you are picking out a kid - look at the mother - do you like what you see? If you can, bring an experienced friend with you. Go to several open dairy goat shows - who is at the top of the line? What do their goats look like? Be prepared to pay a realitic price for the kids if they are high quality.

Always buy goats that are healthy and remember that buying the best goats cost the same to feed as the worst goats = so always buy the best you can afford. It will be worth it in the long run. A breeder values their reputation so it is important that they sell animals they are pleased to have their herd name attached to.


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

The doe is GCH Sweet Dreams Royal Wailea. She was out of Twila, Risk was her sire.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Those are great pictures. I have a GOAT kit for my old 4H club that has all those and it was so helpful teaching the kids.


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

Those pictures helped me a lot when I was learning(still am ), and someone who knows this stuff is really helpful too. That's why I bug Lacie a lot.... :lol:


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## mininubes (May 13, 2014)

Thanks for the chart that's really helpful!!


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## NewbieNubian (Nov 7, 2011)

Cadence said:


> 25 is not always your goal - it depends on the trait.


So if 25 is not always the goal, what would the goal be for each trait? I was looking at them and taking me best guesses, but what I know about conformation is what little I learned working with dairy cattle.


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

NewbieNubian said:


> So if 25 is not always the goal, what would the goal be for each trait? I was looking at them and taking me best guesses, but what I know about conformation is what little I learned working with dairy cattle.


Some of it is a personal preference = what you want to see in your herd. Sometimes it is how the trait is scored and some of what you would prefer, but it doesn't mean that other animals are wrong.

Some examples of where you might not be breeding for a 25 (these are just the first 3 that popped into my head):

Rump width = the bigger the better. I want the largest rump I can breed for because the larger the rump the more area attachment possible in the udder.

My personal preference is to have my doe's dairy score be in the mid 30's. This is just what I want to see in my animals and some people have different ideas of what works for them.

If you are raising Nigerians you probably don't want 25 in teat diameter since they are measured on the same scale as the big girls.

Does that give you an idea?


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## CalicoGal (Jun 2, 2014)

This is great!


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## ETDairygoats (Feb 16, 2013)

This an extremely helpful online book. Dairy goat conformation starts from page 11. https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/23103/4-HNO1017L.pdf?sequence=1


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## CalicoGal (Jun 2, 2014)

That little book is perfect. I am new to goats so I am trying to learn how to pick out good dairy prospects knowing that my budget will be limited at first. I knew this was going to be an education! This thread in particular has been very helpful.


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## ETDairygoats (Feb 16, 2013)

I have from page 11 printed out and I read it almost every night


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