# My "shame" updated..with progress pics



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

My pride and joy...Hank, has gone from being a gorgeous black pygmy to a red, sparse coated boy in the last year...he had a very rough winter with Teddy being a royal PITA towards him, beating him down and being very aggressive, Teddy was wethered and this winter Teddy and Angel will be together as she has become aggressive with the other girls.
I have changed minerals due to the obvious copper deficiency that started showing last year, my bucks were not part of the copper sulfate drench disaster and since it is warm out now my plan is to completely shave him down, give him a good scrubbing and see how his hair grows in, I have noticed some new growth at this point that is as black as he used to be so I am extremely hopeful that it continues. I do my own fecals and my boys are checked as often as every month to 6 weeks so there are no internal parasite issues, there is also no evidence of external bugs either.
Please pray that my Hank recovers his beauty as I am doing all I know to do at this point and cannot risk more copper than what he is already getting with grain and minerals due to the fatality and near fatalities I've already suffered... I love my goats and will do all I can for their health.
This is how my boy looks now
[attachment=1:2jfwhgax]001.JPG[/attachment:2jfwhgax]
And what he looked like a year ago
[attachment=0:2jfwhgax]P1000290.JPG[/attachment:2jfwhgax]


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: My "shame"*

good luck!
I have a buck, odin who had a rough winter too. i'm working on getting weight back on him and the coat needs some work :shocked:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

Thank you Katrina... I am hoping to get Hank his pride back.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: My "shame"*

What about BoSe? Have you tried Sunshine Plus pellets? They have a lot of copper in them


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

I'd like to get the sunshine plus but right now I have him on calf manna and 18% goat feed as well as the manna pro goat mineral...this guy is absolutely loving the browse they have with their new pasture so I hope to get him back to himself soon.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: My "shame"*

I used the manna pro for a while, but it has low copper levels compared to the sunshine plus. I didn't like how the goats were doing on it and the price was the same as sunshine so i switched back. Hope his coat improves for you.


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## 4hmama (Jan 9, 2009)

*Re: My "shame"*

If you didn't shave him last year, and he has a year's worth of hair growth, could some of the 'red' be caused by sun bleaching? I'm sure not all of it is, but part??


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## Goober (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: My "shame"*

Something I thought of with the color, since he is a buck - could part of the problem be urine? I ask, because when I have housed male rabbits next to each other, they spray each other and it bleaches their coats into nastiness. Does this happen with goats as well?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

The urine does bleach them out...in places I'd expect though like the front legs and around the belly brisket...Hank is totally orange along his spine and sides and he has a definate bald tail tip. I thought of sun bleaching too but I don't think it would show to this extent...especially since he was glossy black a year ago and now is orange and black. I'm going to get the Sunshine pellets and use the calf manna for my girls and hope it does him some good.


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## silvergramma (Nov 9, 2009)

*Re: My "shame"*

this may not be something you could do with a goat but I had a black and white horse a no fade paint that would get burnt from being out in the sun,, tail would have streaks of red in it.. I was told spray and spritz with apple cider vinegar and it would prevent or make the red go away.. it worked,, I only have three solid black goats and so far none of them have reddened any but then again they are short coated Nigerians,, I had them on pellets calf manna and purina goat mineral..
one of my purchases this early spring had some frost bite hair loss and he recovered nicely on his legs.. still waiting to see if the rest of his coat comes back...
I think they were on some kind of generic feed..


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

I shaved Hank down to the skin yesterday...besides having so many wrinkles and not seeing any lice, which I knew he did not have, I can see some new growth of black hair that was under all the long stuff...he has some very dirty crusty looking skin...puts me in mind of Sebborhea( cradle cap), after he was shaved I took a wash cloth, warmish water and an antibacterial surgical scrub and got him scrubbed the best I could...he wasn't too happy and I didn't want to stress him further, so while he was still damp, I used what was left of my Bag Balm and rubbed and worked it into his skin, sometime today, I'll get him up on the stand again and try to get some of the nasty stuff off of him, I feel like a bad goat mom, he likely wouldn't have all this mess if I was to scrub him more than just once in awhile.
I know he is copper deficient, the bald tail tip and the orange in his hair says so but the change in minerals I think has helped because the new hair growth is totally black, if the deficiency wasn't corrected, wouldn't the new hair be coming in red/brown?


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: My "shame"*

Poor Hank.......don't feel bad......my boys had mites and I didn't even realize it for a while! Talk about a bad momma!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

Well....I have a very PO'd Hank!!! I was able to get him haltered and secured to the fence today and got a bristled brush and the garden hose and scrubbed him the best I could, he was not a happy boy at all...the scaliness seems to have been easier to get off in some areas and was pretty stubborn in others. After the scrubbing, I literally took a large bottle of aloe vera lotion and lathered him with it, left it on for 10 minutes, wormed him and then rinsed him. He has a good bit of peach fuzz coming in and it is black not orange so I'm pleased with that.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

What is the sunshine plus and where could I find it, TSC,or a feed store?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

It's made by Blue Seal and TSC does carry it, check and see if they do, if not they can order it for you.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

Ok, will have to look into it :]


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: My "shame"*

I have a black buck that looked just like Hank a year ago. He had copper deficiency so bad that his coat started coming in red after only a couple months old. He also had very dandruffy, crusty skin. He looked a mess. I copper bolused him, shaved him down and his coat grew in to now be gorgeous, healthy and shiny. I'm betting your Hank will recover too.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

With a half pint of baby oil and a fine toothed comb, I managed to get the majority of the scaly skin loose..his hair is coming in nicely too...sparse but at least it's black!
I was able to get him on the Manna Pro goat balancer and it's a top dress with his regular grain ration so along with that he;s also getting the manna pro goat mineral...with his 1x a day grain he's taking in a good deal of copper and other neccessary minerals, the goat balancer has 150 ppm of copper, the mineral 1350 ppm and the grain is at 25-40ppm...so at minimum a total of 175-200 ppm of copper that I know he eats daily, plus the minerals and whatever the content would be in the hay/browse and water.
As I've said before, whatever copper is in the "goat specific" products I give my kids will have to suffice, the death I caused a year ago will haunt me forever and I won't "play" with extra's anymore....if this doesn't fix him and his coat is less than normal for the coming winter, I'll crochet him a heavy sweater.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame"*

OK...New "issue", Hank is doing extremely well all slicked up in baby oil, this stuff is amazing! The scaly skin is coming off in sheets, healthy skin is emerging  but, with the scale, the "old hair" that was left when he was shaved is also coming out :shocked:

He has new peach fuzz type hair growth, black as black can be but is it normal for the old hair to fall out?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame" updated..with a ?*

if there is new hair coming in then yah its normal for them to shed out for the new growth to take its place.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: My "shame" updated..with a ?*

I am getting really excited here....My Hank is looking wonderful!! :leap:

He's getting 2ozs of Goat Balancer pellets with his normal 1 cup of 18% goat feed, free choice browse, minerals and hay....and a daily brushing with a soft bristle brush and baby oil. I am amazed at how he is improving :clap:

No red/orange hair, scaly skin is just about gone, all black coming in AND I also saw him running and jumping down the hill to beat Chief to the feed trough. I promise to get pics of his progress as soon as I can.


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## Lawanda (Jun 11, 2009)

*Re: My "shame" updated..with a ?*

How wonderful Liz!


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## MiGoat (Apr 21, 2010)

*Re: My "shame" updated..with a ?*

How much baby oil are you using Liz? Does it ever let more dirt stick to him? 
I'm so glad he's looking better! I bet he's feeling better too with all the scales off him.

Is scales and dry skin another sign of copper deficiency?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm using Walmart brand of fast absorbing baby oil...this stuff really soaks in quick!
Theres no dirt that sticks to him mainly because the only area that has dirt is in their pen, they are out in the pasture 99% of the time and only come to the shed at nite, theres dry wasted hay down on the floor so really no dirt to stick...that and the mineral oil doesn't get sticky like a petroleum based product.
Since I didn't get a pic of him at the time he was shaved down on 6/15 it's hard to see the progress from week to week.
Here he is on 6/30, because he was too preoccupied eating it was hard to get a full body pic but you can see the scaliness.








Here he is on 7/6...a week ago and just 3 weeks after the initial shave and " oil treatment"








It's been raining today otherwise I would have gotten a pic but there is marked improvement from just a week ago


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Here he is on the 14th..I'm amazed at the improvement he's showing :leap:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Looking good..... :thumb: :greengrin:


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## maple hill farm tina (Mar 14, 2010)

Liz, he looks great! His skin is looking healthy, and his new coat is coming in nice and shiny! Way to go!!! :hi5: 
-Tina


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'll get some updated pics tomorrow to post, he is looking better and better! He and Chief are starting rut and they aren't as pleasant to be close to the last few days...I can smell them as soon as I open my back door. His hair is thicker, so black it looks blue and he's gotten his frosted ears and nose back, before this the white hairs weren't there anymore, now he's looking the way he did a few years ago. I've also been giving him 1/4 cup wet beet pulp in the hopes it adds some fat under his skin, he's not very well padded yet.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Heres those Pics!!
It's extremely hard to put into words how I feel as far as Hank's progress...at least the kind of words that aren't "censored"!!
He is so BLACK again...no sign of the orange tips to his coat and my goodness, I have never felt such soft hair on a buck :leap:


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## Lawanda (Jun 11, 2009)

He looks FABULOUS!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you Lawanda :greengrin: 

He isn't "an in my face" goat like Chief is which is awesome but he so enjoys those brushings! He'll swivel his butt around til I find the right spot then he just leans into it til Chief comes and pushes him out...of course when one gets attention they all want it :wink:


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Beautiful boy you have there Liz


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Denise, I so appreciate that! I have worried so much over him and have been doing my best with him that it is so rewarding to see the difference, even more to have someone else see the improvements too.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

love those shiny black goats  good for you in your work to get him 'better' :leap:


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## silvergramma (Nov 9, 2009)

taking in one of my newest doelings to have her disbudded will stop along at TSC and see if they have it..


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I think we have overcome the skin issue as well as the copper deficiency :leap: 
Heres my boy! Not only with a full coat of soft BLACK hair but he's gotten his frosted nose and ears back!
The treatments were started after a shave on June 12th....baby oil, brushing and Manna Pro goat minerals with his usual 18% and added beet pulp and Goat Balancer.


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Pretty, pretty boy!


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## Lawanda (Jun 11, 2009)

He looks GORGEOUS!!! So SHINY!! And ornery too, stickin' his nose close to the camera


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Nice~! :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you for your replies! Hank is the sweetest buck ever, never in my face or demanding, he waits his turn and I am so happy to have my shiny healthy boy back! He was thinking I had more feed in my hand for him...the reason why he had his nose in the cam! He is so laid back, doesn't fight back at all when Teddy or Chief get rough...he takes a hit and walks away  

I just hope that this years rut isn't as hard on him as last years...my boy will be turning 7 on April 1st and I know that it gets harder on them as they get older


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well beings that he is in such good condition now I am sure he will do great over the rutt season.

Who you breeding him to this year?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

StaceyRoop said:


> well beings that he is in such good condition now I am sure he will do great over the rutt season.
> 
> Who you breeding him to this year?


Bailey...hoping for twins this time though as her first was a big boy :wink:

Hank and Binkey made pretty girls accidentally 2 years ago but since I have Chief I may as well use him for PB Nigies instead of crosses :greengrin: 
Chief and Penny will also be paired bnecause I absolutely love the doelings he sired with her "sister".

Angel will be on hiatus this breeding season and since Hank is her sire, Chief will be the only option for her since Teddy was wethered.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well at least he gets a go of it again


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## MiGoat (Apr 21, 2010)

He's beautiful Liz! Did you top his feed with the minerals or leave them free choice?

He looks like a fuzzy bear very soft!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

They have Manna Pro goat minerals free choice...and yes, stinky as he is at this point he has the softest fur I have ever felt on a buck. Hubby knows when Hanks been getting attention from me cause he swears he can smell him before I hit the porch!


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

liz said:


> They have Manna Pro goat minerals free choice...and yes, stinky as he is at this point he has the softest fur I have ever felt on a buck. Hubby knows when Hanks been getting attention from me cause he swears he can smell him before I hit the porch!


He looks great Liz! What a difference. I had to laugh at your hubby's response to your bucky perfume. :slapfloor: Mine always asks me why I feel the need to cuddle with the boys everyday too! :laugh:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats nothing compared to wait I used to have to do....After handling the boys I'd have to go into the house through the basement and strip and put my clothes in the washer BEFORE I was allowed to come near DH. Now he knows it is what it is ...and he deals with it :laugh:


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

LMBO... yep thats how we are now. HAHAHAHA stinky goat clothes aren't allowed in the house.


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

Wow what a difference he looks great!You have done an excellent job nursing him back. :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you Melinda! I was worried that I wouldn't be able to get him healthy looking again but he has come a very long way and I'm very pleased with the results of the added nutrition and extra TLC.


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