# Goat Down Cant Get Up



## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I have a goat that this morning can't get up/walk...
she is kicking and scooched a bit on knees but cant get up. Is yelling...

She is a Nigerian dwarf


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Temp is very low if thermometer is working right. 96


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

you need to get her temp up - warm blankets, hot hair dryer.

do you have CD-Antitoxen or milk of magnesia? the low temp is making her rumen shut down, so no more feed for her until her temp is back up.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I have CD antitoxin...dosage? & how do I give the shot? never have before


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I have to look that up...haven't used it before.

how's her poop? is she drinking?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

this is from happybleats:

"the new recommended dose for cd antitoxin is
kids under 6lbs give them 3ccs 
kids 6-15lbs give them 5ccs 
kids 15-20lbs: give them 10ccs 
For adults- 80lb goat will get 20ccs
injected SQ every 12 hours

But Im still old school about it lol..with 1 cc per 5#.. every 6 hours for the first day then I go to every 12 ... guess Im just a worry wart.. "


how are the colour of her eyelids?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

eyelids are a good color. I gave the cd antitoxin...not sure if I even got it into her.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She has pooped now. sometimes is up on back legs with nose on the ground


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ya...needles are weird to give esp the first time.

is she drinking? how's her temp? coming back up?

here's a recipe for homemade electrolytes. she needs to keep hydrated. maybe use warm water too to help get her temp back up.


Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have on hand or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I think it may be polio?... Does anyone know symptoms of that? I don't have thiamine or vit b though


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

hmm...and today is a holiday. do you have any human vit B complex at home?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Gave human vit b complex
temp is up to 100.1


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good advice given!!!! Gether temp up!!! warm blankets, a space heater with you present (never leave her alone with it) or a heating lamp..rub briskly.to stimulate! Keep up with the cd antitoxin every 4-6 hours!!
..Thiamine or fortified B complex is needed...check you bottle if the Thiamin is 100gm then 4 -5 cc per 100# every 6 hours..itf its the 25 ML you will need to give 4 times that amount!! never give more than 10 cc at one location...the injection sight will leak it all out...so changed location when giving more than 8 to 10 cc

you also want to treat for listeriosis since both listeriosis and polio look the same..large doses of Penicillian is needed ..this link shows a chart onhow much to give plus gives info on both illnesses
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

also consider Deer worm if you have white tale deer...


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Is there anywhere I could even get bcomplex or thiamine today?

or what dosage should I be giving of human vit b?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

when my goat was down, goathiker told me to give 12 x B100 complexes. crush it up, and mix with some honey to get it down, OR what I did was drench it with the electrolyte mixture.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Just one tablet? How often did you give it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet Walmart is open. Get human thiamine tablets for now than tomorrow go to TSC and get fortified B Complex. If the vet is open tomorrow, get thiamine from the vet.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

nono, 12 tablets at one go. one tablet doesn't have enough, and goats don't absorb the vitamin well through their stomach, so you have to give a lot. don't worry, there's no overdosing on B vitamins. what she won't use she'll pee it out.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ok, found it from goathiker:

"I worked out with a gal how many human Thiamin tabs she would need one time. It was 12 100mg ones crushed and mixed with a bit of honey. "

so, make sure the total number of b vitamins equal 1200mg of thiamine (B1)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good advice!!


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Kmart is open and maybe Walgreen or CVS. Some of our grocery stores are even open


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Okay honestly I have no clue what is wrong...
Maybe not polio.

When I found her this morning she was laying in their house on her side, legs splayed out & couldn't walk or stand. Brought her in. Did CD Antitoxin, have given baking powder, have given olive oil, have given Vit b complex(not as much as recommended because am having difficulty drenching any more) & have given molasses/water/apple cider vinegar mixture...

right now she is 'sleeping', not sure if she is sleeping or just getting worse.

I finished reading the whole polio thing & she doesn't really have those symptoms.

Apparently my grandma saw her a few days ago with some yuckies in her eyes and standing with back legs, on knees in front, & nose on the ground.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Also she has not pooped/peed anymore since she first did when I brought her in.

I'm thinking she may have been having problems all along. She is around 8 months & only 12 pounds...


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## cashmere (Jan 14, 2013)

When a friends goats was down like this with low temp I also drenched with not hot but very warm tap water it helped bring temp up.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

good work so far! 

maybe right now try to get her temp up back to normal.

has she been treated for worms or cocci lately? have you noticed earlier if her poop has been abnormal?


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

nearmagic said:


> I think it may be polio?... Does anyone know symptoms of that? I don't have thiamine or vit b though


How old is she? Polio usually effects kids, listeriosis has very similar symptoms and usually effects adults.

Here's a link that tells you all about both.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> good work so far!
> 
> maybe right now try to get her temp up back to normal.
> 
> has she been treated for worms or cocci lately? have you noticed earlier if her poop has been abnormal?


She was wormed with ivermectin this past Friday

I hadn't noticed any abnormal poo or anything


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she is really only 12 lbs at 8 months old, something is very wrong.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

what about coccidia?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> If she is really only 12 lbs at 8 months old, something is very wrong.


I would agree...
she has been fine & normal before today but I had never weighed her before to see how tiny she actually is.

She may very well have coccidia. edit: but hasn't had any symptoms of if...would explain the lack of growth though

temp is up to 101.7 now, but definitely still not better. I'm thinking there is something going on internally that has been going on for quite some time & I just didn't notice...

[correction, she is probably more around 6 months than 8 but that is still small for 6 months...]


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Continue the cd antitoxin and check for anemia, lower inner kids need to be deep pink to red, pale means she is anemic and will need treatment. tapeworm will also stunt growth a fecal will be your best bet but I woul go a head and treat for cocci . They don't always show outward signs.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Continue the cd antitoxin and check for anemia, lower inner kids need to be deep pink to red, pale means she is anemic and will need treatment. tapeworm will also stunt growth a fecal will be your best bet but I woul go a head and treat for cocci . They don't always show outward signs.


I have nothing to treat for cocci...

Do you think that she will survive to tomorrow? Would a vet be able to give me cocci treatment?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

here's a home cocci remedy. if you don't have the slippery elm bark at home, it's ok. the other stuff helps soothe belly and kill off cocci protozoa:

Cocci Remedy
1 tsp powdered ginger * 1 tsp cloves * 1 tsp slippery elm powder * 1/2 tsp cinnamon
1 cup boiling water - Steep for 20 minutes
For a 2 month old kid give 6-10cc twice a day for 5-7 days

I've also added 1/4 cayenne to the recipe.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Thank you! I don't have the slippery elm but am currently seeping the other things. Does 'seeping' mean to just put it all in the water & let it cook?

I feel so bad for the poor little lady :/

will I be able to store the rest of the mixture for use for the next few days?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

slippery elm is to help stop the runs. yes, just steep it like tea, and drench. make sure it's cool enough so it doesn't burn the poor girl.

I usually make mine in a jar and store in the fridge.

hope she feels better soon! keep up the great work!


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Thank you...I am concerned though that she hasn't pooped in quite some time.

she still is just laying quite listlessly & cannot eat/stand/ect.

I've given 2 doses of CD antitoxin, should I continue that?

It seems like she should be improving somehow if any of this is working...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

how's her temp? is it still down? any rumen sounds? give her a really good, deep massage in the rumen area. have you given any vit B? I know you don't think it's polio, but vit B helps stimulate tummy and appetite.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I've been massaging the rumen area on & off for a while. There have been a few sounds, but not much.

I've given some human vit b complex crushed w/ water & drenched but she really doesn't like that. Mostly spits it back out.

But she does not even hold her head up, just leaves it on the ground


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

tough day for input here today...everyone spending thanksgiving with family. keep trying to force the liquids and vit B down her. good sign that she's fighting the vit b. how's her temp?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> tough day for input here today...everyone spending thanksgiving with family. keep trying to force the liquids and vit B down her. good sign that she's fighting the vit b. how's her temp?


Yeah...silly goat decided today is a good day to get sick haha 
I drenched about 8cc of the cocci stuff. 
And I got 5cc of the vitamin b stuff drenched, have been giving warm molasses water too. How much water should I be giving do you think?

edit:
honestly I think she has gotten worse :/
not moving as much as she did when I brought her in this morning


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I have human b1 250 mg...how much for 13lb goat for polio treatment?

also she finally pooped again! normal pellets...still is doing bad though


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## Pacamamma (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi there. Sorry to hear about your little girl. I had a buckling this summer that I went down this road with. Sadly he did not make it as he had tetanus and I thought it was polio...). Good job with the CD antitoxin, vit B. and drenching. If she spits up your mixture you might have to tube it down. You can use (clean) fish tank tubing and a 60cc syringe. I heated the tube first with hot water to soften it before I inserted it in him. When you go to insert the tube, measure out the length of tube from just behind the shoulder up the chest and neck and up to the mouth. Mark where you ended and then slowly insert the tube down one side of the throat. She will try to spit the tube up but just keep going down. You will know when you get past the gag reflex because the tube will slip down much easier. Stop inserting the tube once you hit the mark you measured out previously. Listen at the end of the syringe for a crackling noise. That means you are in the rumen and not the lungs. If you don't hear a crackle at all, you are likely in the lungs. Pull the tube out and re-insert. Once the tube is in the rumen you can pour your mixture in. Make sure you pour it in slowly. I have attached my two threads from earlier this summer on the subject. I got lots of help from many people. Hopefully all goes well for you.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f1...g-his-rumen-shutting-down-need-advice-151419/

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/buckling-bent-neck-help-151958/index2.html


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Thank you for the information! I haven't done CD antitoxin again...do you think I should continue with that also?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would continue the cd antitoxin every 6 hours until she is eating and her temp is stable....You are doing wonderful with her...and have great advice given!!!

3-4 cc of pepto will help sooth the tummy as well, if she has cocci, it can be painful, the intestines will be inflammed...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> tough day for input here today


I wouldnt say that Nchen7 !!! you have done a wonderful job is helping and supporting nearmagic!!!


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I would continue the cd antitoxin every 6 hours until she is eating and her temp is stable....You are doing wonderful with her...and have great advice given!!!
> 
> 3-4 cc of pepto will help sooth the tummy as well, if she has cocci, it can be painful, the intestines will be inflammed...


Alright. Temp is pretty much stable and normal at this point already. She has eaten some but for the most part is [still] just laying. Would I want to continue it?

I still am not entirely sure what I'm even treating for. Polio or Cocci? Or could it be Listeriosis? (if so, where would I get penicillin?)
Should I be giving the B1 & Bcomplex every 6 hours? How much B1 if it is 250mg human tablets that are being given orally?

Poops are completely normal at this point. She hasn't peed since this morning.

Thank you everyone for your help!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The cd antitoxin will not hurt to continue...At this point I would treat for both polio and listeriosis, which is the thiamin or B complex, I would get the injectable ASAP wich tractor supply carries...fortified B complex is better if they have it and Penicillin....and you already began cocci treatment...Tractor supply carries Penicillian as well..

so cd antitoxin
Pen per tennessee article
Thiamin or B complex
electrolytes
no grain, hay only
keep her proped up so she is not laying on her side...use towels or a blanket rolled up to help support her....


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Thanks Cathy! I will get those tomorrow at TSC if she can make it through tonight

How easily is listeriosis spread to other goats/humans?

Edit:
Would giving human amoxicillin orally be helpful in any way? ...if so, how much?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Its possible, not sure how easy but you should take all precaustions....Here is a quote from TMG



> There are two forms of Listeriosis: one form results in abortions, while the other causes encephalitis. Both types are seldom seen at the same time in the same herd. The organism can be shed in the milk of both carrier and sick goats. Listeriosis is potentially zoonotic (able to be transmitted to humans.) Like Goat Polio, Listeriosis is most often seen in intensive management situations. Unlike Goat Polio, Listeriosis is more common in adult animals than in kids. Because some goats are carriers who never display any symptoms, it is possible to buy infected animals and introduce this disease into a previously uninfected herd.


With Cocci...read this article and see how your little one fits...Cocci can be dangerous, from a full blown runny butt to no indications of a problem until they are so ill...Understanding how both listeriosis and cocci as well as polio work will help you determine what might be going on here..
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/coccidiosis06.html

You are doing a great job and have been given some great advice ....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

With little goats it is often easier just to stick the pill down the back of her mouth, like you would a dog. She needs 2 of those 250mg tablets every 6 hours. She also needs eletrolytes given to her every couple hours. 
Listerosis is not going to spread to you if you are keeping reasonably clean.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Sadly he did not make it as he had tetanus and I thought it was polio...)


I just re read the whole post, mking sure we didnt miss anything..and You have been given great advice and have been treating all the "normal" things that would cause this... I did find this in one of the post..and thought it sure wouldnt hurt to give her a tetanus shot ....Tetanus antitoxin is 2 cc sub Q TSC carries this as well if you dont have any on hand...Not CD&T which is a toxoid, but the T. Antitoxin....

The way you said she was seen on her knees rear up, nose in the ground sounds like she has been fighting something a few days...its very puzzling...If you can have a fecal done tomorrow...it would be very helpful..ask for a fullpanel, cocci and tape worm included...Both Tape and Cocci can cause stunted growth,,,, Tape is the less feared worm but can do horrible damage just the same...long term exposer to Tape will stunt growth, cause intestinal damage, anemia and death...just like all worms..here is some more light reading lol...
http://goat-link.com/content/view/72/109/#.UpfvI2RDtXc
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/tapeworms.html


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Dang! goats are complicated hah...

How much would a fecal cost? Would storing poo in a plastic bag to take it work?

I may just bring her in to the vet tomorrow (supposing I can find one that knows anything about goats)...but really they won't be able to tell anything for sure, right? Idk if it is worth what they will want me to pay, or more stress on her.

I'm thinking that something has been going on for quite some time & then she somehow got polio/listeriosis on top of that. I don't know!
If it is listeriosis is there a big chance my other goats will also have it?

Tovah a few months ago (little brown lady)









& when I first got her at the end of august









her fur is definitely 'puffier' since I got her, & she has a bigger belly. But other than that I think she is not much taller at all


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes, they can be complicated, but not always ill : ) it could be she has beendealing with something her whole life..its hard to tell..an unthrifty goat has a low immune system and can get ill often where others do not...I would just keep a close watch on everyone else..who BTW are adorable! 
for a fecal...cost varies..here is it cost me $12 other report much much more...but its worth a shot..just grab some fresh poo and put in a baggie..put it in the frige until you are ready to bring it to the vet..(mark it so there are no confusion at snack time hehehehe)

A vet visit wouldnt hurt if you can find one who is familuar with goats....


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Haven't seen any improvement with giving the thiamine every 6 hours( have only given 2 times so far)
but it could mean it is probably listeriosis, right? Or just something different alltogether.

She lays on her belly on her own, not her side, which I guess is good. She drank about 2/3 cup of water on her own a few hours ago. She also peed at some point.

She'll eat, but like she will get something in her mouth & start chewing and then suddenly stop like she has forgotten what she is doing, which is partly why I thought it was polio/listeriosis cuz it seems to be nuerological. Due for another dose of b1 at 5:30.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

It's good that she's drinking, and at least TRYING to eat.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

We have a vet appointment at 11:30 so hopefully i'll be able to get penicillin & thiamine and be able to find out something with the fecal


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## cashmere (Jan 14, 2013)

Great will be praying for full recovery 
Make sure you write down everything you have done and give amounts in the last few days so vet gets the full view of what has worked and not worked.


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## cashmere (Jan 14, 2013)

Keep us posted


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

good luck at the vet! keep us posted!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

glad she is seeing a vet..with the B1...its not going to work as well in pill form as the injection...it sounds like it is helping some...but it does sound more like either listeriosis or some other brain swelling illness...maybe even deer worm...do you have white tail deer in your area?? Ask the vet for banamine or Dex for brain swelling...talk about Polio, listerisosis and Deer worm...have a fecal done while you are there. if he prescribes antibiotic that is RX be sure to get plenty for daily shots....enough for 5-7 days at least...

for food (which she needs for strength) soak alfalfa pellets in the electroltes and feed using a turkey baster,,, go slow and allow time for swolling....some even need to be tubed food..they either get to weak to eat or as in your case....seems to forget what she is doing...you need to do it for her...

best wishes...keep us posted on what the vet says


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Okay...

went to vet. Told him everything, got fecal. He said it is probably polio. gave banamine for brain swelling, Ampicillin to try & get rid of infection, and thiamine. Gave a bag of water/electrolytes?idk (forget what its called) to inject fluid

Problem:
he says do those IM once a day. 1 cc on the Ampicillin which he says is 350mg. He only gave me enough for 4 more days on the ampicillin, 3 does of banamine, & 4 thiamine.

is this even going to help at all? I've been hearing 6 hours & he told me just once a day & didnt give me much

& I am awful at injecting subq...I have to poke her so many more times than I should need to actually get it in her for the water. Any advice?

Since he said only 1 time a day for everything else & said IM i'm guessing i really need to do the rest IM which I have never done before at all. Advice on that?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Everything can go SQ. if the vet wants you to do IM then do that.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm is pretty simple. I give shots to my goats by myself pretty easily. I inject I'm at the base of the neck to either side of the vertebra where the neck meets the shoulder, there's a meaty area there.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she has polio..once a day Thiamin is not enough....you can get some fortified B complex to inject after you are done with the straight thiamine...
Here is a few pix of a sub Q sight...its not as hard as it seems...and less painful for the goat them IM...


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She has not pooped since very early this morning (like 1-3am ish)
Should I give CD Antitoxin again?
I have heard rumen noises on & off all day. She peed once, but no poo


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Cd antitoxin would be a good idea if she is not pooping..that can cause toxcity....I would also do an enema...I use an oil and water enema...mix a bit of oil, I use olive but what ever you cook with...mix with warm water...use a syringe with no needle and pull up some enema..insert just the tip and slowly push the plunger...start slow..message her tummy between fill ups...you want to fill her enough to cause pressure to push..but not too full...it can take 30-40 minutes to get results...be patient...once she begins to poop...the remaining oil in her intestines should help keep things moving...


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Cd antitoxin would be a good idea if she is not pooping..that can cause toxcity....I would also do an enema...I use an oil and water enema...mix a bit of oil, I use olive but what ever you cook with...mix with warm water...use a syringe with no needle and pull up some enema..insert just the tip and slowly push the plunger...start slow..message her tummy between fill ups...you want to fill her enough to cause pressure to push..but not too full...it can take 30-40 minutes to get results...be patient...once she begins to poop...the remaining oil in her intestines should help keep things moving...


Where am I looking for the pressure when I put in the oil/water?
& where should I massage?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Could still be listeriosis. I had a vet diagnose polio in a friend's goat and prescribe thiamine with low dose penicillin, but after doing more research it seemed that listeriosis was more likely. I didn't want to confuse my friend by telling him something different than the vet though - he lost the goat two days later. Vet still said it was polio and nothing else would have helped, but the penicillin doesn't interfere with thiamine if it is polio so personally I will always treat for both at the same time. Not sure how the dosage on ampicillin compares to Pen G but they need very high doses frequently to cross the blood brain barrier.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Do you think splitting the ampicillin to .5cc twice a day would help at all if it is listeriosis? Probably still that is not enough...

Would giving human amoxicillin orally every 6 hours (other than the 6th hour of ampicillin) help in any way?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She is chewing cud again so that is good...

Wanting to keep her head turned toward left flank, (which does make me think listeriosis)
Also I got bit while trying to get something into her mouth...I'll probably get sick too hah :/
It drew blood

If i try to pick her up or move her she goes onto her side and flails her legs.

I attached a pic of what her eyes look like. That was not there before this & is quite visible (really terrible pic, sorry)

she has pooped...it smelled pretty bad. Vet said there wasn't any alarming amt of cocci or anything though.

But it seems like every time she eats she gets 'bloated' again. I spent like 3 hours last night massaging air bubbles out of her rumen.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I would be treating for both to be sure. Go to the feed store and but a bottle of penicillin and vitamin b12 complex if your vet won't give you more thiamine.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree.. treat for both listeriosis and polio...it wont hurt...As for human antibiotic orally...NO..: ) never give any antibioitc orally other than neomycin which is made as an oral......
Glad she pooped..the bad smell could be either from not pooping for a while..or cocci...

For Listeriosis...use Pencillian at the amount ont he chart on this link..
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

YOu need to do the large amounts for it to do any good...you can get Pen at tracotr supply...along with fortified B complex...check the back of the b complex jar..look for at least 100 mg thiamin..and thats a good one...


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Would this pen be okay?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/product__10151_-1_10051_7566

Edit: what gauge needles should i be using?

Edit again: if I'm giving more thiamine & antibiotic than vet said, do i need to give both at the same time?

Last edit hopefully hah 
I am only 17 & tried to ask my mother to go purchase the pen b & fortified b from TSC but she thinks that i should do exactly what the vet said & not add to that.

The goat is not getting better though w/ what the vet said 
My mom said I could get the other stuff after what I have runs out but I'm thinking it'll be too late...

Is there any way i can stagger the amorpillin i have to allow it to be used more effectively? .5cc every 12 hours instead of 1cc per day?

I have not given any more banamine since what vet gave yesterday. I have 3 doses of .25cc left. Should I continue with that?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

BCG said:


> I would be treating for both to be sure. Go to the feed store and but a bottle of penicillin and vitamin b12 complex if your vet won't give you more thiamine.


Please, what is Cobalamin (B12) going to do for an animal that needs Thiamin (B1)?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Tell your mom that the combined membership here has WAY more goat experience than your vet


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Keep in mind none of us are hands on with the goat either. We are going totally by what the op tells us


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

She needs the banamine...it helps with brain swelling...
Let your mom know...with listeriosis..there is no cutting back..she needs the pen to get through this..the longer you wait the harder it will be for her to recover...please ask her to read this article, it might help her understand whats going on...
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

You cant cut doses...she needs it in whole...pen is cheaper than another vet visit.. 
best wishes!


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She is up & walking a tiny bit!

I gave the thiamine/amripillin(sp) at 6:30am, then again at 3:00 pm. I gave 500mg human b1 tablets once between and once after. 

I'll take myself to TSC tomorrow & get the pen & fortified b.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats good news...keep the the great work !!!


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

I got b complex (100mg b1) and 100mg penicillin from TSC today. What would the dosage be for those? I'm thinking to just continue once every 12 hours. She is 13lbs.

She was in the garage last night, & while I was at church today mom left the garage door open...she found the goat out in the front yard haha. So I think she's feeling a lot better.

How long should I continue doing the b complec & pen every 12 hours if she continues to improve? & if she wants to be outside how long till I could put her back in with the other goats? We are in the middle of moving (supposed to be moved by tomorrow). I have to be at school tomorrow too, so i dont know if I should bring her & leave her in a room in the basement @ the new house so I can check on her at lunch, or leave her isolated outside at the old house, or in with the other goats, or in the garage at old house while I'm at school haha...

Thanks everyone!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

according to tenn. meat goats...a 25# goat needs 1.5 cc pen every 6 hours....I would give no less than 1 cc for her 13 #'s
I would give the B complex at least every 12 hours...2 cc should be plenty for her size
this needs to be done for at least 24 hours AFTER she is 100% well...it can take a while
Banamine or Dex helps reduce swelling of the brain 

as for where she should be , how best you can care for her?...if she is not up and moving well, I wouldnt leave her with the herd,sunshine and fresh air is nice if she is ina draft free safe place...but if at the new house you can better care for her..then go that route...


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I would also give some probiotics to keep her rumen right while giving the penicillin.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She is still doing well...i kind of need to move her out of the garage pretty quickly though. The only problem still is that her head tilts a bit sideways, but I'm guessing that may never go away?

Would it be okay to let her back outside at this point? It's about 30 right now


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It can takes weeks for one to recover fully, there could be some perm. damage, but she shouldbe able to live a full life, eating drinking playing ect....I would keep up treatment as long as she needs it....and yes, keep up with the probios as well...2-3 hours after Pen shot...to keep her rumen in shape..: )


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

happybleats said:


> It can takes weeks for one to recover fully, there could be some perm. damage, but she shouldbe able to live a full life, eating drinking playing ect....I would keep up treatment as long as she needs it....and yes, keep up with the probios as well...2-3 hours after Pen shot...to keep her rumen in shape..: )


Okay thanks! How can I tell 'how long she needs it'?

And should 30 degrees (maybe down to 25 tonight) be okay outside with the 2 other goats? They have a shelter butI guess I'm not sure they'll be okay with each other & let her stay inside.

Or would in the barn in a dog crate be better tonight?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she is still weak and unable to get around, I would not leave her with the others...if you can crate a small area for her out of draft and wetness..she should be fine as long as she is maintaining a healthy temperature...A crate would be ok..the only problem is she can not get away from her pee, being wet could give her a chill..if you need to go that route...stuff it with hay bedding so she can stay as dry as she can : ) 

How Long? you want to seeher walking, grazing, chewing a cud, acting normal...if her head is still rigid and she is weak and can not get up on her own..she is not ready to be off treatment....If she is unmoble..you need towork her muscles for her ...excercise her legs..help build her strength....YOu ave done amazing with her so far...She is in good hands!!!


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She has been up and round and walking (and running when I try to catch her for shots) for two days now. I'm planning to put her back out with the others tonight and just watch her closely.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats wonderful!!..I would love to see a short video or pix : ) 
when you decide she is done with treatment...keep a close watch for relaps and be ready for aggressive treatment if necessary...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's really best to wean her off the Thiamine instead of just quitting cold turkey. Start dropping one shot a day every couple of days. That helps prevent a more devastating relapse. If they go down a second time, it's much harder to get them up again.


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

She is currently outside...

While cleaning the garage i noticed 2 spots of red colored pee on the ground.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

large amounts of B can cause pee to turn orangy....is if blood you see or stained pee?


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

Honestly I'm not sure...it looked more like very very red pee than an orange color to me. It was kind of bright for blood though, I think? 

Ah goat :/
Would UC cause blood in pee?
hopefully it's just because the Vit B...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes UC can cause blood in urine....check her girly parts..dab it with a clean tissue see if there is blood in it..watch to see if she is acting like peeing is painful...a steady stream or dribbles..ect...if she looks like she is peeing normal then offer or drench Electrolytes to help her flush some...take her temp as well..rule out infection


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## nearmagic (Oct 19, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Yes UC can cause blood in urine....check her girly parts..dab it with a clean tissue see if there is blood in it..watch to see if she is acting like peeing is painful...a steady stream or dribbles..ect...if she looks like she is peeing normal then offer or drench Electrolytes to help her flush some...take her temp as well..rule out infection


I've been giving antibiotics already for 6 days so I can't imagine there is another infection...?
Before this morning all the pee was normal colored. I'm guessing it may be UC...it is likely that with does it can pass on its own, right?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes, the current antibiotics should have taken care of any infection, but I would keep watch on the temp just the same...
It is easier for does to pass the stones then bucks...Offer raw ACV in her water to help her out in case this is UC... 
Ive not heard of many cases of UC in does..but with her going through so much already...her 2:1 ratio maybe off...


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