# Thinking about getting a LGD



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

So for those that have missed my previous post when I lost a goat to a coyote, I live in a place where moron city people move to and want to “save” the wild life by feeding and watering them because of the fires and drought. This has resulted in very brave and smart predators and I’ve had it with them. 12 years with goats and the coyotes have always respected my fence. Not the case any more and now that we have had rain people have stopped giving them hand outs and they are coming to my back door for my birds. This is not normal! 
The whole reason I have never chanced a LGD is because 1. I have herding dogs. This is a cattle ranch above all else. The goats have been off limits to the herding dogs which they pretty much have respected but when I’m out there sometimes they come with me. They don’t herd the goats but they do want to see what I’m doing. I can NOT have these dogs killed or hurt in any way. They are a total life saver with the cows. 
And 2. I see a lot of posts of “my LGD attacked my goat and I need help”. Not necessarily on here but other places. So with my lack of loss with wildlife it’s never been worth it to have a LGD. 
So I need to really do my homework here! 
How would I go about this dog bonding with the goats but also be friendly with the herding dogs? 
Also my herding dog is also MY protector. He loves the goats because I’m out with them and he goes where I go, there is no keeping him out of the goat pen. He will even suck up the electric fence to be with us. He is the stud of this place so not fixed. If I get a female (it would have to be a female) and I fix her would her drive to do her job not be as strong because of that? Some of our older herding dogs are fixed and they became fairly lazy after being fixed. I also see many LGD that are not fixed so wondering if that is the same with them.
And last question: I know I can’t just get a puppy and toss it in with the goats. This will be a long process. But what can I do to better my chances of no goat attacks? I don’t remember the breed but there is a gal that is close that raises LGD and she has goats and chickens and the parents are proven protectors. I’m probably going to hit her up (it’s tan short haired dogs). I just don’t want to trade one problem in for another so any advise is welcome!


----------



## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Question number 2, answer-
If you have babies goats at the time when you get a puppy, make sure everyday you put the puppy in a small pen with a couple of baby goats and your herding dog(s?). If the puppy tries to be mean/chew/chase the kids tell it no and give it a big ol slap to the butt. Discipline has a big roll in all this. 


I would definitely not recommend getting it fixed because like you said it can make them lazy and not want to do their job. So they would want to live with the goats instead of protect them... lol..


----------



## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

If I were you I'd look into getting an Anatolian Shepherd. They are awesome and do their job well.


----------



## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I wonder if @FizzyGoats can answer some of those questions.


----------



## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I have Anatolian Shepherds. Both male & female. My neighbor raises roosters. He has Anatolian shepherds and red heelers. My Anatolians are not aggresive to my 2 Bostons, or the Boxer/ Dobie mix. They are aggresive to other dogs, not ours, nor my neighbors. 
Their are Anatolian Shepherd Rescues, that train or have trained Anatolians that they will sell at a less price, than from a breeder. They will come out and see what you need, and will tell you if they have one to rehome for your situation.
I got my 2 as puppies. But to replace them when that time comes, Im contacting one of the Anatolian Rescue places for an adult dog already trained. I would rather Rescue/ rehome,,than do the puppy stage again.


----------



## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

You might consider a pair of llamas I have always liked mine though you would have to get them to accept your herding dogs as yours I mean as part of the family. Alternately when it comes to lgds hands down the Italian marimar is the best.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes! That is what it’s called a Anatolian shepherd! That is what she raises! I do not want a GP because they seem to wander and we have the highway semi close. 
TripleShareNubians do you know much about llamas? If so do they have to be a pair? And are they fine with a alpaca? I have 1 alpaca, she thinks she is a guard animal but she is not (small man syndrome) I just hate shearing her so adding to that is not ideal but I could do it. The only thing I’m dead set on not having is a donkey. Those seem to be the most unpredictable and I have horses so it would probably be more focused on them then doing their job.


----------



## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

I used a pair of llamas for years because they were easy they eat with the goats eat and where I live I only sheer once a year and I don't even do a fancy job at that. And I have the vet do feet then. But other than having to make sure they're warmed since they can be susceptible to the meningeal worm I've not had issues with them. I was told the best thing to do is get a pair of males that are either already gelded or old enough to be gelded and that's what I've had was a pair of males. They don't eat very much and other than the worms the only real issue is the need some sort of pond or small pool or something where they can cool off if you get really hot weather. Mine have access to my pond and a friend uses those little kid play pools for the herd llama to cush in. 
Because it's getting harder to find them around here I have moved to my Italian miramar. I was never fond of Pyrenees and the Anatolian cross that I had for a few months was way too interested in my chickens. The Italian Miramar is a good guard animal doesn't wander like the Pyrenees and has had absolutely no interest in chickens.


----------



## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

On a side note another friend doesn't have a pond or anything she just has taught her llama to come up and allow her to hose him when it's really hot.


----------



## favorite goat Pam (Feb 19, 2021)

Hello, I have been raising LGD's along with herding dogs. My recomendation is if your LGD is a puppy just do your routine. A puppy under 6 months old with you there will think nothing of it. If you are there. I love getting my dogs off sheep ranches at about 8 months old or older. Sheep and goats are close enough to where the dog will take to the goats, even Nigerians. If you are dealing with a trained older dog, I suggest to keep the LDG on a leash, then in a seperate pen ect.. Eventually the LGD will become used to it. In the perfect world, you may be able to find puppies about 8 to 18 months old off of a sheep ranch that uses herding dogs, I get mine from those ranches a lot if I don't breed them.

When talking about breeds, personally, through experince I like the crosess between 2 LGD breeds the most. I really love Akbash dogs. Anatolians as stated before are also great! I like to not get a pure Pyreneese because sometimes they can lack instict. I recommend not looking at the breed (unless it's a non LGD breed) and looking at the enviroment the dog is born and raised in.


----------



## favorite goat Pam (Feb 19, 2021)

Adding on, when you introduce any LGD to a non LGD, they will know you (their master) allows this dog, making this dog not a threat unless proven (away from you).


----------



## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

So I just got a LGD because, while the coyotes are still respecting my fence, they make their presence known vocally and there are tons of pics of them on the game camera right by my back gate and I didn’t want to wait until I needed one. A pup takes a while to grow up (some say 2 years to be livestock safe but I personally wanted a faster maturing line). I think way more important than worrying about a specific LGD breed is worrying about the breeder and the lines the dog comes from. I sort of stumbled into mine with dumb luck. He was 5 months old (half Komondor and half Great Pyrenees) and we were his third home through no fault of his own. The breeder had him back at the time I went to look at him. I got to see his older siblings working and his parents. Lucky me! Her farm was ran very much like mine and I loved the reactions her dogs gave and the jobs they did when strangers were near the fence. So we paid the lady and brought him home. 

For your first question, if you start with a dog on the younger side, I don’t think you’ll have any issues with your herding dogs and the LGD. Even if you start with a more mature dog, you should be okay if from day one they realize the other dogs belong and have a job to do. If it’s an older dog, keep it secure but let it watch the dogs work and reward clam and relaxed behavior. Just remember, no matter the age of the LGD, EVERY introduction is made by you (goats, other dogs, chickens, people, you get the idea). 

2. I’m not going to lie, it’s constant supervision with your first LGD. We used to have a pack and the older ones kept the younger ones in line really well. We don’t have that luxury now so we put a kennel (that will double as a birthing stall later) in the goat barn and that’s where he sleeps. I’ve had him less than 2 months and am fairly certain I could let him sleep without the kennel and he’d be fine unsupervised with the goats all night but I’m a worry wart. He’s with them all day and night and solid gold with his behavior (other than eating their hay, alfalfa pellets and kelp, he’s weird). Our guy is already bonding to the goats. How you go about bonding depends on the age of the pup and even how the goats feel about him. I like mine to turn to their charges for company and comfort as much as they do to me. Some don’t care about that and that works too. And, as a side note, you absolutely can bond with the dog and form a strong one at that. He’ll love what you love. Leash train the dog and for the first few weeks take it on lots of walks all around its area. 

To lower the chance of any goat attacks (though if it’s good breeding, it won’t be attacks but rough play from a still-learning pup but either is not okay), it’s just supervision and boundaries. You may have some goats that help you set those, you may not. My “puppy” is way bigger than my goats because he was on the older side for a pup to go to a new farm, but extremely responsive to a correction, which is just a “nahh” or a “Hey!”. They just need to know you’re the boss and respect you and they need to know the rules. And you have to respect their independent thinking because that’s what will save your livestock someday. 

The best thing you can do is talk to the breeder you mentioned and explain what you want. If you feel she has quality dogs, then she’ll be able to pick the dog/pup best suited for what you’re wanting. She also knows her lines and can tell you how much supervision they need and how to go about getting the dog to become the guardian your farm needs. The dog I got was not the dog I contacted the breeder about and yet he is the perfect fit and she was absolutely right. 

I hesitated getting a dog because it’s been a long while since I had an LGD and I know they’re a totally different breed (so to speak) than what I’ve grown accustomed to over the past decade and I worried for my dogs, cats, poultry and even goats if I got one because of all the horror stories I’ve read on FB. Now I’m so glad I got him! Get in touch with the breeder. It definitely won’t hurt to have a conversation.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Now granted I haven’t paid much attention to a lot of things mentioned about LGD in the past but from what I have half way gathered is GP are ones that will go out and keep a safe perimeter around the goats, meaning they wonder. True? This is why I don’t really want them (if it is true) the highway is kinda close so I don’t want it hit and I don’t want someone to pick it up and “save” it and I never see the dog again (has happened with our herding dogs in the last). 
Llamas might be the way to go though if I can’t get the dog fixed. I do not want 100 puppies that are confused on if they should guard the animals or herd the animals. But other then the not fixing part getting one doesn’t seem as complex as I had it in my mind. My goats are not super big fans of dogs. Even the dog I have that goes with me they put up with him but will nail him if he’s being annoying and I’m out there all the time so having a puppy on a leash while out there is do-able. 
Thank you guys! I’m going to have to think more about this


----------



## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Anatolian Shepherd Guardian Dogs at Erick Conard's Lucky Hit Ranch


Anatolian Shepherd Dog - information about the Anatolian Shepherd Guardian dog




www.luckyhit.net





@Jessica84 This is the website of a renowned LGD breeder and author. He has Anatolians. While he rarely has any for sale, he does have a wealth of information in the articles on this site. It's a bit of an old website, so you have to scroll all the way down to the bottom of this page for them, but they are wonderful.
I know of a few more resources too on LGD's and Llamas, and if you would like them, please PM me.


----------



## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

One more thought good lgds are great but llama's while more expensive to begin with possibly eat the same thing as the goats, get the same vaccines and you don't have to pay for heartworm flea and tick etc., you can put your same pour on on them that you do on your goats, and they have a 20-year lifespan. Not to mention they don't chew on stuff or want attention.
I admit I'm a bit prejudiced though since I am more a goat horse and cat person. There's also only one of me and I didn't want anything else that needed more attention or care. My Italian Miramar is nice and does his job well, but I still prefer the llama


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Gosh dogs are way more expensive here then llamas. Plus I think if a llama didn’t work out it would be easier to rehome. I haven’t totally decided to go with a llama over a dog but I think I am leaning more towards a llama. I know a alpaca is not a llama but the alpaca is so easy other then the shearing. Tina (alpaca) does come over to be sprayed but she will also get in the troughs, it’s a easy fix though and I just put out a bunch of shallow troughs. She usually has her few favorites she goes into (the first two in the row) so those are hers and if she happens to get in them all I can dump them without wasting too much water. I’m still going to do homework on both though and not rush into it. My brother who lives across the road also saw the coyotes jump his fence to get his ducks so in the mean time I’m going to up my hot fence strands while the ground is nice and wet and I can fry the suckers


----------



## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't know if I have the energy to fully explain tonight. (Horse Christmas camp exhausted me)

I have had both llama and LGD. Loved my llama! But becareful to have one trained already or one raised out if working parents. Like LGD some llama are not equipped with the needed skills and young male llamas can be dangerous if not handled/raised right. I was lucky I had a fully trained llama that came with the sheep flock. 

LGD there's are theories of working dogs. The "white dogs" aka great Pyrenees and maremmas are the inferior dogs and the non white dogs had the larger distance. My husband had an old training manual showing the normally working area of each breed. I am down to two maremma great pyr crosses and the take turn running fence lines while the other stays with the herd . I have never had an issue and only young buckling I ever lost got separated free ranging by 4 wheeler trespassing from rest if the herd. 

I raised the puppies in a smaller goat lot with one doe and her twins. Having 2 puppies helps reduce their desire to play with kids and goats because they can chase each other. 

Ok can share more tomorrow night !


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

One llama is no match for a pack of coyotes. The only thing they can do is stomp.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Our coyotes don’t usually run in a pack. Sometimes there will be 2 together, I’m guessing young siblings but usually there just 1 
Ugh I don’t know maybe reinforcing the hot fence is the way to go. They are sneaky suckers this year and won’t come to a call. Usually when one gets brave and hangs around we get rid of it but they have been a challenge this year. I’m hoping the issue of stupid people calm down after this year since I’m seeing a lot of posts wanting the state trappers number but I don’t have much faith they are putting 1 and 1 together……when you give wild animals a hand out they loose fear and when you stop they cause issues. 
The lady that breeds her dogs doesn’t breed any more, and I did a fast search and seems to be mostly puppy mills so I’ll just take my time and look for what would be perfect, either llamas or dogs and see what comes available. 
Thank you guys I have a load of info and feel slightly better about searching for something now!!!


----------



## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

One more thought good lgds are great but llama's while more expensive to begin with possibly eat the same thing as the goats, get the same vaccines and you don't have to pay for heartworm flea and tick etc., you can put your same pour on on them that you do on your goats, and they have a 20-year lifespan. Not to mention they don't chew on stuff or want attention.
I admit I'm a bit prejudiced though since I am more a goat horse and cat person. There's also only one of me and I didn't want anything else that needed more attention or care. My Italian Miramar is nice and does his job well, but I still prefer the llamas.


Jessica84 said:


> Gosh dogs are way more expensive here then llamas. Plus I think if a llama didn’t work out it would be easier to rehome. I haven’t totally decided to go with a llama over a dog but I think I am leaning more towards a llama. I know a alpaca is not a llama but the alpaca is so easy other then the shearing. Tina (alpaca) does come over to be sprayed but she will also get in the troughs, it’s a easy fix though and I just put out a bunch of shallow troughs. She usually has her few favorites she goes into (the first two in the row) so those are hers and if she happens to get in them all I can dump them without wasting too much water. I’m still going to do homework on both though and not rush into it. My brother who lives across the road also saw the coyotes jump his fence to get his ducks so in the mean time I’m going to up my hot fence strands while the ground is nice and wet and I can fry the suckers


You do need to consider a pair though depending on how much space and work you have because they can defend themselves a single llama is in trouble against a pack but a pair of them are lethal.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I have two pyrs. One spayed female (5) and one intact male (3.) The male is only intact because the spay/neuter clinics won't call me back and he hasn't been getting into trouble so I'm not in a hurry. Altering them absolutely does not make them worse at their job. My female is a much better guardian than the male. If anything, altering them makes them less distracted and more focused on their job. But a lot of it comes down to individual personality too.

If you get your dog from a puppy (which you should) and you introduce it to the other dogs from the beginning, you shouldn't have a problem. My female LOVED playing with my brother's cattle dog when he was a puppy. I just got a terrier puppy, and she is not allowed in with the goats (they want to stomp her anyway) but my female pyr understands that the new dog belongs to me and she acts only mildly curious. The male is a little stand-off with the puppy but I think he's jealous- despite living with the goats full time, he'd really be happier with more human interaction. My pyrs are kept with the goats in a pen that's half 4' no-climb horse fencing and half cattle panels. At times, hay accumulates around the feeder and raises the ground level so much, the fence only ends up being 3' or so high. My dogs have never challenged it. However, if I forget to latch the gate and one of the goats gets it open, the dogs will take off, and no amount of calling or yelling will get them to come back unless THEY feel like it. 

There are some "goats in California" and "lgd finder" groups on Facebook and I frequently see guardian dogs offered up in your area. My female came from a sheep and poultry farm in Clovis and my male came from, ironically, also a sheep and chicken farm in Los Banos. So it was a little bit of driving for each one, but still easily a day trip, and it seems like they're found in higher concentrations the further north in California you go 😋

I will say that the dogs have given me great peace of mind. It did take some training, and they did spend a lot of time on tie-outs in the goat pen until they were completely trustworthy. I'd feel even better if the property was fenced so they could patrol the whole thing. I have had some losses since getting the pyrs, but only poultry, which I can't blame the dogs for since I don't keep the poultry in the goat pen.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can get multiple llamas. There is a sheep farm near me that has 4 guard llamas.


----------



## goats-n-oats (11 mo ago)

Lil Boogie said:


> If I were you I'd look into getting an Anatolian Shepherd. They are awesome and do their job well.


Why an Anatolian over a Pyrenees?


----------



## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

goats-n-oats said:


> Why an Anatolian over a Pyrenees?


In my experience and very close friends experience they tend to be better at protection then Pyrenees. Pyrenees tend to get a bit lazy, but not always. It's my personal preference bassed on my experience and my friends.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great Pyrenees have a lot of hair and have to be shaved down in the summer. California gets hot. 
They pick up lots of stickers and have matted hair unless they are brushed a lot. 

We chose Anatolian and akbash.
We had them at different times and have been the best dogs. We get males, when we do. 
But for our area, one dog works for us, if you need two, get a male and female or two males/ females will fight. Fix the female unless you want pups


----------



## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I got a GP when she was about 6 months old, she grew up around sheep and bonded with my goats immediately. We fixed her (same situation with male cow dogs) and haven had trouble with her being lazy. She’s always laying down, but on a hillside near her herd. She was laying down upwind from the herd and a coyote came awfully close. The herd alerted and she was very upset with the brazen coyote. With how fast she chased it down I thought the kids and I would see blood for sure. But she let it off with a warning. Lol 
She’s only 4 now, but we’ve never lost a baby. Some of my FF mamas have even left them out in the brush when they come in for evening grain. She’s left my chickens and ducks alone, but I have seen her packing a cottontail or jackrabbit now and then 😂


----------

