# please help.. Heartbroken :(



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

Hello Everyone.. Unfornately I come on here tonight with nothing but sadness.. I would like your advice because I am heart broken.

I just had my baby goat die today and I raised him from a new born and bottle fed him.. I was VERY close to him. He was 8 months old and I was out with him 3-4 times a day for 7 months. No one around here seems to know what happened or why it happened and I really need some advice so this doesn't happen again. I have 4 goats left and they are my babies so you can understand how hurt I am right now.

He was always full of life.. Jumping around, mingling with the other goats.. just happy as can be. About 2 months ago it all changed. He became distant and quiet, almost depressed looking.. Wouldn't cry or jump or play anymore.. stood by himself and stopped eating all together with tail between his legs. I called my local vet and they checked him over and everything seemed ok.. so they gave him a vitamin B shot and within a day he started eating again as normal. They also gave him worming medication.

However he never went back to his old self. For 2 months he has been weak and had a cough. I have taken him into 2 vet clinics at least 5 times. Every 3 weeks we had to give him a vitamin B shot again to get him to eat. He was quiet, never ran.. just stayed in the corner. I honestly did EVERYTHING I could think of to keep him healthy.. Heat lamp in the stables, fresh straw to sit on.. I only feed my goats fresh clean hay.. I just didn't know what was causing this.

Last Saturday he became VERY weak.. I rushed him into the vet and they checked his temp and it was completely normal.. his gums and eyes looked great.. wasn't dehydrated. He just seemed so depressed and sad and his personality was totally gone. The vet was completely stumped because of how "lifeless" he was. They gave him some antibiotics for 4 days straight, steroid shot, vitamin b shot.. he started doing very well again. Eating healthy, gaining weight.. seemed like he was doing good again and may snap out of it this time.

This morning I went out and fed him.. he wasn't eating a lot but he was eating. He didn't seem too weak at all. He was looking at me and would come sit on my lap and his tail was half way up which was a great sign.. I gave him a big hug and came back 4 hours later and he was dead. I am just heart broken right now.. I tried my very best to protect him and keep him healthy and no one can tell me what in the world happened. He did not have diarreah, he was urinating as normal

I have 4 goats left.. all the same age.. 8 months. 2 of them are pigmys and 2 are fainters.. these 4 goats are very healthy.. running around. Jumping, playing on the toys.. full of life.. one of them started coughing but not a lot.. he still seems 100% healthy though in every way..

It's been winter here in utah but as I said they have full stables to keep them warm with a heat lamp.. Can anyone offer me advice here? I don't want to lose any more of my babies. . I lost another goat 5 months ago as well. Except when that goat died it was VERY sudden.. at night he was healthy and running around and morning he was dead and we didn't know why.. It was during the summer and we think it was heat exhaustion of some type but it was a mystery as well. .. he was only 2 months old. I have lost 2 babies in the last 5 months and I cant take this any more. They are the best pets I ever had and I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong. They always have fresh water and hay. I had the guy that I bought my goats from come to my house ( bellsgoats.com ) very popular in my area and very well respected.. he checked my whole yard.. hay, everything and said he sees nothing that looks bad, he said everything I am doing is correct. He sells 10 goats a month and he said he hasn't had any die in 3 years.. except the 2 I got from him,. He is as stumped as me and not sure what to tell me.

I am sure you will all have some questions for me so please ask away.. I really am heart broken and I hope I can find some answers of what could of happened to this goat.. he has just been weak for 2 months and never snapped out of it. I am hoping to hear from you all soon. Thanks so much.. I want to figure out what is going on so this doesn't happen again. I am eagerly waiting for your replies, advice and questions.

Nathan Poulsen
Hooper Utah
26yrs old




























this is the one that died today


----------



## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

awww.. sorry for the loss.. have any of the others acted like he did?? it could have been a genetic thing.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

my other 4 goats seem very healthy. they don't act like he did.. YET.. ( my concern is now my other goats health ) 

The thing that is strange is he was perfectly healthy for 6 months. Acted completely normal and just like the other goats.. then literally overnight he changed and never went back to being himself and I tried everything possible to keep him alive for 2 months.. Thats why I am so worried and what makes me think it is not genetic, because for 6 months he was perfectly normal and happy. the unknown is what hurts the most.. Not knowing if it was my fault somehow or what would of caused this to happen.. I just want to prevent this from happening again and I don't even know where to start.

I am just curious if this has happened to anyone else here? or if anyone knows what they think happened? I would just like some answers or educated guesses if nothing else.. I am new to owning goats and I can't believe how attached I am to them.. Which is why I am here hoping to find some answers.


----------



## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

sometimes a genetic defect could happen.. I had a doeling that was under a pound at birth and i gave her to a friend to try and bottle raise.. she thrived till she got to about 3 1/2 months.. and then went downhill really fast.. she had a heart defect and the only option was to put her to sleep.. so it happens, but its rare.


i guess we can start with the basics, diet, minerals, do they go browse your property, wormed lately?

Its late at night, so i'm sure more people will be around tomorrow who might see something i'm totally missing..



and yes.. goats steal you, very quickly. I started with one.. and i think at one point i had over 30, but i'm back down to under 10 permantent goats


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

for the last 3 months we have had snow on the ground. they haven't came out of the stables much as they don't like the snow. So I know it's nothing he ate in the pasture as there is nothing to eat out there. I keep the stables clean.. fresh water daily. They have been eating alfalfa hay and I figure if it was something in the hay all my goats would be sick. I make sure there is no mold in the hay.. I worm them every 3 months. Steve from bells goats said he was positive they didn't have a bad case of worms because the gums were very clean and good in color. rectal Temperature was good, the poop was good... no mucus in the eyes or nose.. only thing I noticed is he had a cough that seemed like a deep respitory cough that I would hear a couple times a day but the cough didn't come on until the last 3 weeks.. He has been weak for the last 2 months. I offer them goat mineral every once in awhile in small quantities. They always have access to a mineral block. 

I have always heard how tough goats are. I have lost two of them in a few months and I spoil the hell out of them.. They are the most spoiled goats in utah. I bet you I sit and pet them and play with them 2-3 hours a day. I just don't get it. I just can't have this happen over and over.. I am too attached to them and it rips me apart to deal with this. 

I started with one goat.. then had two within a week.. then had 5 within a month.. They are amazing pets and animals.. I bought them a jungle gym to play on with a small slide and they love it.. they are like kids. Which I am scared to death of this happening to the others. Thank you for the replies. Maybe after all this brainstorming we will figure out what is happening or what happened to joey.. I am a novice with goats but I have tried my very best to research and do things right with them; i don't know what I am doing wrong.


----------



## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

hmm this is odd.. because if it had been the hay it woulda gotten more than one of them.. I'm really perplexed over it..I kinda want to say silent pneumonia.. but they'd generally get a runny nose and snot.. i'll try and google it and see what i come up with


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

thats what i thought too but his body temp was always good, every time we checked it. No Fever and it was never below the normal temp.. But he did have a deep cough which I am not sure if it was directly related or not to his weak health.. 

I am so frustrated and sick to my stomach. Thank you for the replies.. I seriously appreciate it. Hopefully tomorrow we can have more people chime in and see what they think. Let me know if anything else comes to mind or if you have any other questions. 

nathan


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

hey its been a LONG night for me (tough kidding with a friend's doe) so I havent read your post yet and I need sleep. :hug: so sorry about your loss. Will give input later.


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Just throwing out some thoughts......silent pneumonia (don't know that they always run a fever with it)...but you said he had not been himself for 2 months, Another thought... coughing for 2 months could be Lungworms....which would not show up on regular fecal and I beleive they do not cause anemia. With Lungworms they need to be wormed with one containing a flukacide (sp?) in it like Ivomec Plus....not sure you can give it to pregnant does, if you should have any.

Hopefully Stacey will have time to read your post later this morning and give some input and advice.

So sorry about your little one  ........It's so hard to when you loose a beloved pet, they are family :hug: .


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Hey Nathan so sorry for the delay in a full response I know you are worried and I would be to.

First I thought of pasturella pneumonia but since it wasnt a phlegm type cough and he was checked out by the vet etc I am more inclined to believe that this is not the case - but will go into the more later.

Second the thought is lung worms - this can cause coughing in goats and the eggs do not show up in a fecal. Regular ivermectin will take care of lung worms.

Third is a more dangerous worm - Liverflukes. This is what cdtrum was trying to talk about  - Liverflukes also do not show up in a fecal and the only way to test for it is through a necropsy after a goat dies  So the best thing to do is to use a wormer called Ivomec Plus - expensive but over the counter and easily available at places like Tractor Supply Co. 

The only SURE way to know what killed him is to have a necropsy done (autopsy for animals). This will give you a cause of death - 90% of the time. Ask you vet what places you can send the body to. I know a couple people on this forum have had necropsys done so I can ask around where they sent the body.


What I would do to check out your herds over all health is to get a nasal swab of the coughing goat at least. Have it tested for pasturella pneumonia. Take a sample of their poo to the vet to have a fecal done. Check for coccidia and worms. And also get some of the Ivomec Plus. Treat everyone with it. It comes in an injectable form BUT if you dont like needles you can give it orally (just take the needle off). The dosage is 1cc per 20lbs if given orally. Otherwise if giving by injection follow the directions on the box, which is like 1cc per 100lbs I do believe. 


And now I need to give you a proper welcome :wave: so glad you joined us, so sorry it was under such circumstances.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Oh Nathan, I am so sorry. I really don't have anything to add other than whats already been said. Also, It's not your fault I know its hard and it feels like it but you did everything you possibly could for him.


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks Stacey for clearing things up....I always get lungworm and liverflukes confused.....should have checked my info out before handing out advice!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

its ok -- you were close


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OH Nathan,

I am so sorry for your loss. There is no question you love your goats. I can tell you we will all agree that you did way more then some people would do for your baby. I just want to assure you that it was NOT anything you did or did not do. :hug: 

I have to agree it would be more live Liverflukes, but if his gums were normal in color then I would question that.

Now To be totally honest. He does sound like one of the wethers I sold.

How was he castrated? I ask because I sold two boys to a lady. One I was able to band and the second he only had one testicle, so we decided NOT to band him until the second one descended. 

Well at about 8 months he started the same things you were saying. The only difference is at the end he was acting like he was constipated. They took him to the vet for about the 5th time. They decided to go ahead and put him down because he was getting worse. When they did they did a necropsy on him right there.

He was not totally developed in his intestines and lower insides. He never had but one testicle that is why only one came down. The vet was so surprised he lived as long as he did. 

Just remember, he was so loved and he new it. There is no question about that. Just know he is watching over his friends now.


----------



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Nathan - I am so sorry for your loss of your boy...

Was there ever a fecal sent to an actual Vet Lab? I also thought that there was a possibility of phenmonia - however - I would definately have a stool checked for Lung Worms. Lung Worms WILL show in a fecal if a Vet Lab does it as there is a different type of float that they do. WADDL charges 10.00 case fee then I think it is 8 or 12.00 per fecal. I just sent in 2 of them last week. This will show you a count of cocci, round worms, lung worms - pretty much everything.

Also, did the vet ever do a CBC / Chem on the little one?

Would you be interested in sending the body in for a necropsy to find out the exact cause of the death?

I sure hope that you can find out what caused this - but I would definately have a lab look at a fresh fecal to rule out lungworms.


----------



## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss. I too was thinking silent pnemonia or lung worms. So so sorry. He was such a cutie.


----------



## DebMc (Dec 11, 2009)

My condolences on your loss, Nathan. I'm fairly new to goats so have neither the knowledge nor the experience to chime in w/intelligent comment on possible causes. I, however, do have a rare genetic disorder, an inborn error of metabolism (IEOM), and as a survivor can tell you that in humans there are many genetic disorders that do not manifest or reach life-threatening levels until puberty or adulthood. I'm sure that runs true with other species as well, goats included. 

In IEOMs, the underlying problem is enzyme deficiency, partial or absolute (missing). As a result, the protein or carb or fat that is supposed to be broken down and metabolized by that enzyme instead builds up along with toxic intermediates and wreaks havoc systemwide. A good analogy would would be chronic arsenic poisoning. Arsenic is toxic to us since we lack the means to break it down. Likewise, consumption of any food item we lack the enzyme needed to break down will produce the same effect: chronic poisoning. Because the resulting metabolic derangement can virtually impair all organ systems, the signs and symptoms are diverse and widespread and often mimic other disorders, so thus hard to pinpoint. The only effective treatment in most cases is dietary elimination of the culpable food items, and that must be done in a timely manner in order to prevent permanent organ damage and/or death.

My veterinarian says she is seeing more and more cases of genetic and metabolic disorders, in particular those involvng carbohydrate metabolism and glycogen storage-like disease. So while these disorders are also rare in our pets, it is quite possible some of us will end up with an animal that has one. I'm not sure about the availability of biochemical and DNA testing for animals but in humans it is highly specialized and very, very expensive.

Wishing you and your herd good health and brighter days,

Deb Mc


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

We actually wormed them all with the Ivomec Plus.. That's exactly the stuff we used. To be honest I don't think I could send him anywhere for a autopsy.. I know it would be the right thing to do but I already buried him in a little towel in my back yard and I would feel really horrible if I had to dig him back up. Maybe I should not of buried him so quickly but it was just really hard and I thought I was doing the right thing..

However; If you guys think it's the right thing to do I know my dad would be willing to dig him up and send him somewhere for me.. But I wouldn't be able to do it. 

I had him separated from the others for the last 2-3 weeks by himself in one side of my stables. So I do have access to his stools if that would help, or is it too late to test it? 

All 5 of my goats were neutered .. 4 of them by the band and the one that died was snipped. I am not sure why he was done this way when the others were not but I remember asking the guy I bought them from if he was banded and he said not to worry as we already snipped him. You could see his testicles so I am not sure how the snipping process works.. But that's what I was told.

If you were me, What would you do right now? Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.


----------



## jberter (Jan 21, 2010)

I am so sorry you are having to go through this sad time,,,, I hope you find comfort in the babies you still have. soft :hug: ,,,and also hope you find out what caused the death of your sweet little baby. :sigh:


----------



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Nathan - bless your heart.....

The stools, if within the last 48 hours would be fine if you mailed them immediately. I would reccommend also sending one from a "non ill" goat.

How long ago did you worm with Ivomec+ and did you repeat in 10 days? Now I am not saying that this "is" the cause - just trying to rule out things the cheapest way possible to start with......


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I understand completely - there is no need to dig him up unless you absolutely need an answer. :hug: I havent been in this situation before but I know I probably would have a hard time thinking about someone cutting up my goat even if he/she was dead. 

Thats great that you used the Ivomec Plus -- how long ago was it that you gave it?


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

If I was you I wouldn't be able to d othat either....really if you used Ivomec Plus it should have taken care of things...


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

We ran the ivomec plus right when I noticed he was not eating right.. 6-7 weeks ago. Then we did the follow up ivomec about a week later. Then we wormed him again last week when I took him into the vet.. The vet was not sure what was wrong and even though they said he doesn't have symptoms of worms they wanted to hit him again to make sure. We also gave him 2 shots a day for the last week of naxcel..

Where do I send the stools too? I can send it out today if need be. Yeah it makes me sick to think about a autopsy done on him.. I know it would be for the greater good but I wouldn't want to be involved with it at all.. It makes me sick thinking about it. I am a big softie with my animals.... Does anyone have any ideas of what happened? I am seriously open to all guesses and feel free to ask me anything.. I would at least like a few educated people in this field to offer their opinion.. I just cant go through this every few months.. it's hard.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok sounds like you did the right thing.

Honestly -- this experienced person is stumped! will keep thinking though for your sake. 

The only thing I can think of that you didnt treat for that would include some of those symptoms is coccidia. Take a stool sample from your live goats to the vet to have them run a fecal to test for coccida. Right now thats all I can think of


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

what is coccidia exactly? how do they get infected with it?


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

coccida is an internal parasite similar in a way to worms but they aren't gotten rid of by wormers you need a coccidiastat 

Cocci thrive off the thiamine in the goats body, they destroy the lining of the intestines. In young kids cocci can cause diarrhea but in adults they just tend to get thrifty and loose muscle mass. Some will continue to eat while others will go off feed as well. 

Coccidia is ingested same as worms are -- it is just something goats get, doesnt mean you did anything wrong. I deal with cocci every year and I try and keep my pens as clean as possible. its basically once its on your property its always there. Stupid parasites!


----------



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

to have the lab run sample you would want them run at a State Lab. I prefer WADDL http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/

You are more then welcome to PM me if you need help with the steps on sending the stools in. I was talking with my friend/vet the other day and she was saying that she doesn't even run them herself anymore because so often she can miss something. The state vet lab has a great way of doing their fecals that use a centerfuge to get ALL eggs.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

I actually think we gave them medicine for this but I only did it for a couple weeks in the fall. Do you put it in the water? I remember getting some medicine that I mixed in the water that helps with colocidious or whatever you call it.. is this the same thing? I remember steve bell was curious of why they had diarrhea in the summer time so we mixed some of that in the water when we wormed them. We think the diarreah was caused by the lush green pasture and grass.. They would not stop eating out there all day long and once I regulated how often they are out in the field the diarreah went away. So many things to learn with goats. I am trying! I had no idea they would be so much work. but they are definitely worth it.. I just want to keep them healthy.


----------



## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Nathan -- welcome to the forum, although I wish you'd found us in a happier time. 

I personally would get the body and send it for a necropsy. It would give me the peace of mind that I'd know how to deal with this if it ever came up again. Your local vet might know where to send it, although our county vet does them here.

So sorry that you had to go through this; it sure sounds like you did everything you could. Best of luck!


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Nathan, your right...they are worth it! I too felt the same way when I brought my first 2 wethers home.....Sooooo much to learn and I don't even have breeding does which is even more complicated.....I love my boys so much, can't imagine life without them now!

You will figure things out and what's best and works for your herd, I have had my guys for almost 2 yrs now and I learn something new every day.... the most important thing is you obviously love and care for your boys very much.....even the most experienced goat person will still have health issues.

By the way, Welcome.....this is a great informative place and lots of good kind people that are always willing to help and advise.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

I really appreciate all the replies and help.. It means a lot to me.. I was looking for a goat forum for to join and be a part of for the past few months and I am glad I ended up here and I plan to stick around  

Goats are my stress releaver in life.. If I am having a bad day I just come home and they are waiting for me and jump on my lap and fall asleep. Awesome little pets for sure with great personalities. So much happiness comes from them especially how I bottle fed them and raised them all from babies I am very attached.. I just want to minimize the deaths and sickness as much as I can so I am all ears with advice or suggestions along the way.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

We are glad to have you here! And I think that is all of our goals...we just want whats best for our animals. Things happen and we learn from them but it seems to me like you take very good care of your animals.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

I try.. I feel like I let joey down though.. I knew he has been sick and he gave me warning signs and I just didn't find the problem in time. I have a lot of guilt on my shoulders right now. When the first goat died that was sudden.. Zero signs.. Jumping and playing at night and dead by morning.. Which was hard.. But this is a lot harder because I knew he was sick and I tried my very best to keep him healthy I guess I just ran out of time.. He fought as long as he could.. 

All I can do is my very best with my remaining 4 goats and hope they stay happy and healthy.. I bought them some plastic play houses and slides and they are in heaven.. It's way fun to watch them play...


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

You didn't let him down..he knows that you loved him and did your best. There was just nothing else you could do for him... don't you just love watching them play?


----------



## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Nate -- your doing great with them and obviously love them! I call them my cheap therapy. Steve Bell knows his goats and should be able to advise you as well! Have fun with your babies, and don't beat yourself up about Joey. Things happen.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

There is always the what if's and the " I could of should of would of " after you lose someone close to you .. I am sure it's normal but I did try my best to help. I spent probably 500 on him in 3 months in medicine and vet fees and I would of spent another 5000 if it meant saving him. I knew he was sick and I really tried my best to help.. Yesterday morning when I left for work I went out there and sat with him for 10 minutes.. Then I gave him a big hug and told him to stay strong and keep fighting.. Then I came home 5 hours later to check on him and he was dead. I guess he just couldn't fight any more.. I just hope he didn't suffer.

My weakness and major love in life is animals and I can't stand when they are in pain / suffering or tortured..I am a concealed permit holder and I had to pull my gun on a guy once because he was beating the shit out of his dog in a parking lot.. Luckily there was witnesses there and I wasn't arrested or looked down upon. Obviously I wasn't going to shoot him I just didn't know what else to do to get him to stop. The good thing is the laws are finally changing and people are starting to have enough with animal cruelty and it's about time if you ask me. 

What are the life spans of goats? Are they all the same or does it change by breed?


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

That feeling will pass..and I know what you mean I am a major softie for animals and that is why I plan to major in Veterinary Medicine. Goats live pretty long lives it just depends on the goat and the life ...this is off of Fiasco Farms site: 
Average Goat Life span: 

Does = 11-12 years average age, but... usually the death in does is kidding related. Does that are "retired" from breeding around age 10 live longer... up to 16-18 years. I just recently found a doe who was 24; she was retired from kidding at age 10. 

Wethers = 11-16 years average age

Bucks = 8-10 average age - bucks usually live shorter lives than does and wethers due to the stresses of going into rut each year; this really takes a lot our of them.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

stupid question.. what do you mean by bucks usually live shorter due to stresses of going into rut each year? What is that exactly? All of my goats are little boys so I am curious.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Rut is what they go through in mating season when they het all stinky and want to breed...if I read correctly all of yours have been castrated and they aren't around odes so they fall into the weather category and you don't have to worry about that...no question is stupid unless left unasked


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

oh ok sounds good. One last question for now.. It's hard to explain though..


Lately when the goats are playing they make a weird noise and their tongues stick out and they lick / rub their head into the other goats sides .. How do I even explain this.. it's like they are over heating but the tongues stick out and they make these little gargle noises and lick each other.. 

Maybe someone here knows what I mean.. I know they are healthy and playing but I am not sure why they just started doing it.. my two pigmys are doing it.. the other 2 are not. Of course the pigmys always jump on back legs and head but each other to play around but this is different.. its like they are having a lick war. When one does it the other one gets mad and jumps on his back legs and tries to head butt. lol


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

My boys do this also, I believe it is part of them playing....but also trying to show who's boss!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats what bucks do to the does when in rutt and sometimes the wethers will do that as well. I have even seen does do that especially when in heat. its rather funny actually.

As to the coccidia -- yes corid is put in the water, but the goats have to drink A LOT of water for it to be effective so I like individual drenching.

did you get the two boys that died from the same breeder? I know you said that the breeder hasnt had goats die like this before but I was curious if maybe they were related and it was a congenital disease or something like that.

Sometimes we do all we can and it just isnt enough or it wasnt ment to be. I usually beat myself up for a couple days but in the end i know that I really do all I can for my goats as it sounds like you have. If it was going to be found out what was wrong the vet should have been able to figure it out.

To save yourself some money you can buy B Complex at a feed store or online at places like http://www.jefferslivestock.com I actually get a 95% ofmy stuff from Jeffers.

Life for me revolves around my goats, I cant do a thing without thinking about how it will effect them and what I need to do to care for them. Most of us on here feel the same way so you are among friends. :greengrin:


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Sometimes the boys do that...but its not a big deal


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

how often should i give them the b complex? Can you briefly explain what things I should be giving my goats and how often? I will print it out and put it in the stables on a calendar so I make sure to do everything I need too, I don't want to forget to do something or give them something they need

Thanks again everyone I am happy to be here among fellow goat lovers! From here on our hopefully all my posts are positive and happy ones! I wish I had more property for more goats.. I have 1.5 acres right now and the pasture and stables is on a acre.. so I don't want to over crowd them.. 4-5 goats is perfect for me.. They are all little hand fulls and fun to play with that's for sure. I keep an eye on my local classifieds and every time i find a little slide or a plastic play house for a good deal I buy it and throw it out there for them.. They have a hay day with their toy houses..

My friends think I am some crazy goat guy because every time we go out all i talk about is my babies.. lol.. It feels good to be around other people that understands and can relate to how awesome they are!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

people call me goat lady -- haha I dont mind. I am crazy about my goats, hence why I made this forum  and I think they are a blast. I have had them since I was I think it was 11 or younger and I am 24 1/2 now so yah its a lifestyle for me. -- 

as to a list -- we have one, but its long! Will try to pull out the important "must haves" for you


----------



## goatshows (Oct 5, 2007)

welcome!!! so sorry that you have come here for this reason. I am so sorry for your losses. :sigh: I know how you feel last year I lost two young animals also. I think everyone has already added everything I could think of. I know how hard it is to get a necropsy done. My buckling that died in december I had had a necropsy done because he died so suddenly with no signs of sickness or struggle. Hopefully things will get better for you and your goat family. you will soon find that they are a lot of fun, can be stressful at times and you will soon become obsessed or addicted to Goats!!! onder: 
Just know that you did everything you could think of for your boy.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

thank you.. I am jealous I wish I have had goats since I was 11.. I have had dogs my whole life as I grew up in the city.. but a few years ago I bought my home out in the country and that's when I decided to get goats.. I always loved seeing them at the local fairs and I thought they were the cutest little animals ever.. I will most likely have goats for the rest of my life now..

Great job on starting this forum! Hope you can put up with me


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

do you mind me asking what the results was when you had it done? I had a goat die suddenly as well so I am just curious what they think caused it.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I grew up with goats as well and I too love them  hence the name Goatnutty lol


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

this is the little goat that died suddenly after 3 months.. I was VERY attached to him.. so I am just curious what they think caused it.. I am sure they are different but I want to learn all I can and the best way to learn is from other peoples experiences and advice.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Do you think he bloated? It's pretty common in goats...


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

I don't think he bloated.. He was very Skinny and wouldn't eat a lot.. we were just doing the band aid fix with the vitamin shots... That's the only thing we could do to get him to eat.. but he was so depressed and sad the whole time. ( 2 months ) ... I know he wasn't bloated but at the same time he didn't die from hunger because I made sure he ate and drank water/pedialite every day...whatever happened in the 5 hours I was gone happened fast.. Because he was actually doing really well and looking better and his tail was coming up.. he seemed like he was going to snap out of it.. The death was a huge shock to me.


----------



## goatshows (Oct 5, 2007)

The report said he had no signs of diseses or infections. so its still kinda up in the air why he died. Back in january 2009 I had a doeling die the same way so thats why I had had it done. I think that she had a heart defect because she was small for her age.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I was actually talking about the one that dies suddenly...sorry should have clarrified..I'm just trying to think of something that hasn't already been said..btw they are all very cute


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

the only thing I came up with on the sudden death goat is he choked on something. So after that happened I really cleaned up my entire yard.. I was not sure but he was as healthy as could be.. 

I can't do the autopsy.. I just can't handle the thought of doing it . He has already been buried and it creeps me out to dig him up and ship him off. I wouldn't want that done to me if things were reversed.. I will just try my best to protect the ones I have and learn as much as I can and hopefully it will pay off so I don't have any more deaths... At least not for awhile.


----------



## goatshows (Oct 5, 2007)

I completly under stand how you feel I didnt want to do it But i felt it was the right thing to do. hopefully you dont have anymore deaths. This forum is a great resource, you will be glad you found us.


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Well I can't really come up with anything else right now but I would just say you should hope for the best in your future with goats


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh boy what a cutie he was - so sorry you lost him too. I would be so heart broken especially not knowing why. I hate the not knowing why


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi Nate...so sorry we are meeting under such tragic circumstances.
When we lose our much loved pets, it hurts that much more. :hug: 

As far as a young 8 month old wether passing with " blah" symptoms....being depressed, little appetite, and a dry cough...it could have been any number of things and if it was any kind of congenital defect there was really nothing you could have done other than to love him.

I completely understand how you feel about him and not wanting to dig him up...I lost 2 myself. 

I've just had my mini's for almost 10 years, but my mom had goats before I was born, I was raised on the milk and there were always goats around while I was growing up.....amazing and very loveable creatures aren't they?  
You have a very handsome little herd, and please don't ever be afraid to love them with all your heart and enjoy them because of your losses....if anything, losing a herd member is hard on the rest of the goats too, they'll be needing that extra TLC and it's going to be hard on you to be with them because your boy isn't there, take comfort in the others. believe me, they are sensitive to your feelings and they seem to know when we need them.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

maybe this is normal but I was looking through pictures and I noticed something odd.. 

I took a pic of him 3 months ago and took a pic of him 2 days ago.. His face almost looks swollen.. under his eyes, his jaw, etc.. it is WAY bigger than it was 3 months ago. Am I crazy or do you think this is just normal? I know they grow a lot in 3 months but when you look at the face he looks like a whole different goat. I will have to post the pics tonight and show you.. Is there any type of disease that makes their face/jaw swell up?


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Bottle jaw from worms....post a pic and then other more experienced members can comment, because it might not have been.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

i will post the before and after pic tonight when I get home. Maybe it's nothing.. Maybe it's just natural growth.. but I thought it was strange.


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Here some articles that might help........

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... goats.html


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

bottle jaw is from the barberpol worm


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

i need to give my little young goat his shot tonight.. of the naxcel to try and help his cough.. does anyone have any recommendations? The vet told me to put it in his leg muscle from the back but to be careful not to go too close to the edge as a vein is there.. I dont' want to hit any veins and he is a fluff ball.. any suggestions on the best technique to give him his shots?


----------



## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm so not good at giving injections and I have only ever given them SQ... I can do it if I have to, but I usually have my neighbor give them! Hopefully someone else here can help you with that.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I give shots in the shoulder or hindquarters.


----------



## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

Found this online. Hope it helps...

HOW TO GIVE AN INJECTION

A Sub Q injection is given by pulling up a little pinch of skin to make a "tent." Using a 1/2" needle (so you don't go in one side of the tent and out the other) go into the side of the tent and inject the medication/vaccine.

An IM injection is given directly into the large muscle in the lower hip (primary) or shoulder (secondary). I use a 1/2 inch needle for IM as well as Sub Q. To insure that I am not in a blood vessel, I pull back the plunger a little and look for blood in the syringe. If you see blood, try another site.


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I was just thinking (wasn't able to go through all the posts so this may have been covered already) that it may be a good idea when the cough is cleared up to give your goats the Pasturella Pneumonia vaccine. It is inexpensive to give and just nice to have all the bases covered.

I am very sorry for your loss. You seem like a great "goat dad" though!


----------



## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

I always give IM shots in the neck, and Sub Q near the shoulder


----------



## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

Nathan, I am so sorry for all you have been through. I have been following this thread, but have not posted before, because I wanted more experienced members to answer your questions. Please don't beat yourself up; I know, easier said than done. I am thinking of you, and as you make through the suggestions given here, any info. you read, and vet instructions, I hope you can gain a peace of mind that you are doing all you can for your goats. Chin up!


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

Steve didn't think it was worms.. He said there was no signs whatsoever of a worm problem , especially how we faithfully wormed him along the way.. He had good color gums with no diarrhea.. I just thought more people would have these symptoms with their goats mysteriously being sick and dying.. My other 4 goats seem to be doing great and they are very healthy so I am grateful for that.. At least I don't have 4 sick goats.


----------



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

About the IntraMuscular injection....

If you are looking at the goat from behind (both facing the same way) you can take your thumb and put it between the muscles of the back leg - you DO NOT want to put the needle in that middle space - go out towards the outside of the leg in that muscle. Then insert the needle PULL BACK ON THE SYRINGE - if blood appears in the hub (where the needle meets the syringe) restick and try again. If NO BLOOD shows - then go ahead and depress the syringe of medication. I then rub the muscle a bit to help disipate the medication.


----------



## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

Nathan, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my first three ever yesterday so I can feel your pain. Your goats and you look just beatiful and full of love for each other. I have to agree, you will never really know until you do a necropsy. At the same time, I would also say keep your shots to the hips and shoulders. The neck is very tricky as you can do nerve damage in the neck, not worth the chance to me.

I hope things get better for you and my heart really does go out to you. May God give you the peace and answers you are looking for.


----------



## nesluopetan (Feb 16, 2010)

thank you.. I am sorry for your loss as well.. It's not easy that's for sure. I just want the pain to go away when I go out in the back yard.. Even though I Have 4 baby goats and a llama excited to see me it still brings back memories of the two that died.. Hopefully one day I can go in the back without hurting. :tears:


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh you will - you will still feel sorrow of their loss but the pain does ease.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It will take time Nate, I know that it hurts now each time you go to feed and give lovin's and miss seeing those sweet faces, it really helped me to just sit with my girls and cry....I know it's not a guy thing to do but believe me, when you love an animal and you lose them, it's much better to let out the hurt you feel than to keep it inside. Your other goats will understand too, amazing how animals sense our feelings and seem to know when we need to have them close. :hug:


----------



## bcassady (Jun 27, 2013)

*Curious for answers!*

My very first goat, a bottle fed baby died this morning. I'm as heartbroken as you were. I'm just curious if you ever figured out what happened? He had the same symptoms as yours and 3 of my others also. I'm treating with nuflor, b12. Thank you!!


----------



## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

So it pretty much sounds like he was totally fine except for his depression and little cough.
Was he at all attached to the goat that you lost a few months ago? I was thinking maybe that's why he acted so depressed? I don't really think that this would happen, but who knows, it's all I can think of....Can a goat even die of depression when a herd member passes? 

So sorry about your little whether, it's obvious how much you loved him.:hug:


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

^^ this thread is really old...


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

bcassady said:


> My very first goat, a bottle fed baby died this morning. I'm as heartbroken as you were. I'm just curious if you ever figured out what happened? He had the same symptoms as yours and 3 of my others also. I'm treating with nuflor, b12. Thank you!!


Maybe you could start a new thread and list symptoms,treatments etc? It will help you get answers... so sorry for your loss :hug:


----------



## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

NyGoatMom said:


> ^^ this thread is really old...


whoops, didn't realize that


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by bcassady View Post
> My very first goat, a bottle fed baby died this morning. I'm as heartbroken as you were. I'm just curious if you ever figured out what happened? He had the same symptoms as yours and 3 of my others also. I'm treating with nuflor, b12. Thank you!!





> Maybe you could start a new thread and list symptoms,treatments etc? It will help you get answers... so sorry for your loss


Yes..please start your own thread so your needs dont go un noticed...this thread is very old (2010) and Im afraid you will get buried...In the mean time...check everyone for worms! Dont wait..worms and Cocci kill ...Have a fecal done by a vet


----------

