# Anatolian with food aggression



## svgoats

We just invested a pretty good chunk of change into a gorgeous anatolian shepherd that is a dream dog to handle. She is perfect, except for her extreme aggression towards our goats during feeding time. No aggression towards us in the least (8 year old fed her today).

She is currently in a pasture adjacent to our main herd and we have a feeding station set up so that they are within 5ft of one another when feeding (on opposite sides of the fence). She will let them eat, but once they start sniffing around her feeder she goes on the defensive. (barking, snarling, and lunging). Edit: She always has food left in the feeder. I think she is a "grazer" when it comes to eating, so she is not hungry.

Am I going through this all wrong? I have feeding stations set up in each pasture with a small "pen" for her to run into for some privacy when eating once she is turned out with the goats. Do I need to completely separate her during feedings, or just let her work out the fact that the goats aren't going to eat her stinky food? I don't want to mess up any bonding between her and the herd.

Thank you so much!

(Here's my Lena! We have been working on "off chain" training. I'm hoping to have her off chain in the adjacent pasture by the end of the week)


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## NigerianNewbie

Food aggression is a behavior that needs to be nipped in the bud. It has to be addressed according to the temperament of the dog. A training technique may work with dog A and be ineffective with dog B, and so forth.

Barking, snarling and lunging is a bit extreme. Personally, I would not be able to totally trust any dog acting this way around anything or anyone until that behavior was corrected once and for all if possible.

There are all types of training tips, suggestions and advice written online or in books. First, maybe try to get an understanding of what this behavior signifies. It looks like she is protecting her food on the surface, though the reason for this undesirable behavior goes deeper than it appears.

Feeding her separately, would get her away from the goats during food time, though it wouldn't correct the behavior. Letting her continue acting this way until she worked it out with the goats could turn serious in the blink of an eye. The actual behavior itself needs to be corrected instead of being compensated for by changing where she is being fed. Aggressive behavior towards goats for any reason is undesirable in a LGD, and unfortunately not a behavior she will be able to figure out not to do on her own.

Whomever the person in charge of training her needs to first teach themselves how to correct this behavior and then spend some dedicated time conditioning her to realize this aggression won't be tolerated.


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## svgoats

This morning during feeding I did not see any negative behavior (classic "call the vet in, everyone is okay"), but we are still weeks away from her being turned out.

If it wasn't for her extreme gentleness in every other aspect, she would be rehomed already. She really is a dream to handle and has no problems with the goats except when they get around her feeder.

I forgot to add that she is in heat (she is due to be spayed in 2 weeks).


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## Damfino

My LGD's are both very protective of their food against goats but not against people. They will bark and snap if a goat tries to raid their food dish while they're eating, but the dogs are not protective if the goat sniffs the bowl curiously when the dog is not actively eating the food. In fact, if a dog isn't hungry, the goats will occasionally nibble the leftover dog food, which drives me nuts but doesn't seem to bother the dogs. Thankfully this almost never happens since my dogs don't "graze." I only feed my dogs once a day, so by the time their food arrives they are usually very hungry and eat it all quickly. On the rare occasion that they don't finish, I remove the leftover portion. This is a good way to avoid conflicts and keep the goats from developing a taste for dog food. 

See if you can train your dog to eat all her food just once a day so you can supervise. I don't reprimand my dogs for defending their food from the goats, but if I feel a dog goes overboard, especially if it's toward a curious kid, I give the dog a verbal reprimand. My dogs have snapped at the goats occasionally but have never actually made contact with one. I don't want my dogs to be afraid to eat in front of my goats, and I know some of my goats would gleefully take advantage if the dogs allowed themselves to be pushed away from their own food. Sometimes the dogs have helped themselves to grain from the goats' feeder, and this is a big no-no. I figure the dogs have every right to their own dinner, but they'd better not be stealing dinner from the goats!


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## svgoats

That's good to hear. I have dealt with food aggression with my blue heeler and hound, but I did not want to "ruin" this sweet girl. I'll try feeding once a day and removing any uneaten food. She was in with sheep before and I have heard of sheep eating the dog's food before their own grain, so she may be used to having to defend her food.


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## Trollmor

Sorry, I do not quite understand. Does the dog have the whole week's food under her nose all the time, to take a bit now and then?

Apart from perhaps getting fat, I wonder what kinds of thoughts this arises in a dog's head... "A whole dead moose, an entire treasury, uncounted amounts of goodies, I am Scrooge McDuck, I must defend it!"

Or have I misunderstood the whole thing? Here, we are recommended to serve a helping, see to it that there is no conflict around the food, and after the dogs have finished, always take away the bowl.


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## svgoats

I've split the daily recommended amount into 2 feedings. She eats a few mouthfuls and then "patrols" for 15-20 minutes, then gets a few more mouthfuls. The food is mostly gone (just a few pieces left) by the next feeding. 

I'm going to try a single feeding, but I do not want a hungry anatolian getting any ideas about our cats. We have had no issues with her and them and I really want to keep it that way.


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## Damfino

Dogs are not meant to be "grazers". By nature they eat one large meal every day (or even every few days in the wild). Once they get used to eating only one meal a day, they don't get hungry in between. We humans can actually train ourselves to go 24 hours between meals without feeling hungry too.  

Our dogs do have a lot of bones to gnaw on between meals, and sometimes they manage to find a meaty carcass. When that happens they often won't eat their processed food.


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## toth boer goats

:up:

I agree, my LGD will not eat 2 x a day, will always walk off from it. 

I now feed 1 x and if there is anything left after 1/2 hour it gets removed. No matter.
Now that he knows he gets fed 1 x a day, he always finishes it, unless he gets sick. 

My LGD does show teeth to curious kids(goats), who are really in there, when he is trying to eat, but he or other LGD's have never bit. Others growl. They are telling them to back off, it is mine. 
Just like a goat when it hits the others away at feeding time. 

You just don't want them to follow through and bite.


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## NigerianNewbie

svgoats said:


> I've split the daily recommended amount into 2 feedings. She eats a few mouthfuls and then "patrols" for 15-20 minutes, then gets a few more mouthfuls. The food is mostly gone (just a few pieces left) by the next feeding.
> 
> I'm going to try a single feeding, but I do not want a hungry anatolian getting any ideas about our cats. We have had no issues with her and them and I really want to keep it that way.


Leaving the food out while she patrols and grazes a few bites in between means the longer amount of time she has reason to be food aggressive. Teach her food needs to be eaten when given by removing the meal once she walks away from it to go patrol. Give breakfast, once patrol starts take out food dish, do the same with evening portion. Patrolling is her job, that's a good thing and her instincts drive her to do this. Use meal time as a way to signal to her that it's okay to take time away from patrolling for however many minutes it takes to just take a breather, unwind and chill a little and just concentrate on eating all of her meal first. Then she can go patrol to her hearts content. Bowl gets taken out and goal is being able to remove an empty bowl.


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## Sfgwife

I agree with everyone else here. But in NO way shape or form would i let a child feed this dog until i knew for positive sure that she will absolutely not bite because someone or somethin is close to her food dish. And even then it would still be a LONG time after the food aggression has been gone.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> I now feed 1 x and if there is anything left after 1/2 hour it gets removed. No matter.


I believe in this. And in feeding the dog at some calm spot where she cannot think of patrolling. Lunch hour rest!

Please keep us informed, so that we can all learn!


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## svgoats

She doing a lot better. I am removing the food after 30 minutes, but she is still eating a few bites then patrolling. She is entirely off lead in her separate pasture (FedEx man helped see if she would jump out...without knowing it...lol) and has been doing great! The family we got her from kept her a 3 strand electric fence. We have 4' woven wire with an electric strand (HOT) at the top.

We have started on lead introductions with the goats and I am letting her run in their pasture when they are in the yard grazing. She is still in heat, so she is a little crabby, but so far only grumbles and sighs. lol

As for my daughter feeding her, we always feed from the goat side of the fence. No fingers or toes within reach. 

We really hit the jackpot with obedience though. She lays down when you approach and is very responsive to verbal commands when running loose. She is similar to our blue heeler in responsiveness. Otherwise, I would not have her off lead this soon.


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## ksalvagno

If she is a grazer with her food, maybe try 2 or 3 small meals per day and remove the food to be sure she is getting enough food.


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## Trollmor

How about feeding her in your house? No patrolling while eating! Lunch time off duty. When finished eating, out to patrol at her heart's desire, and no more food until next meal. In the house. Maybe close to your own meals, to point out that you belong to the same flock?


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## svgoats

I teach, so next month I won't have time to bring her in for every meal.


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## Trollmor

Not even if you "teach" her to eat only in the morning?


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## Ranger1

This might be helpful. http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page39/


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## Trollmor

Ranger1 said:


> This might be helpful. http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page39/


If someone is testing this, I will very much appreciate a little report!


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## svgoats

Trollmor said:


> Not even if you "teach" her to eat only in the morning?


Nope. Middle schoolers are enough.


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## Ranger1

Trollmor said:


> If someone is testing this, I will very much appreciate a little report!


I do something similar with all my dogs. They are busy body Border Collies that have better things to do than eat, and if I leave food in their kennels they start developing food aggression issues. So my dogs are taught to start eating instantly, and don't leave your bowl until you're done because you won't get it back.


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## Trollmor

Thanks, Ranger1! I see no real difference between your system and your link. So, how do your dogs react? How much time do they need to learn?


Ranger1 said:


> Border Collies that have better things to do than eat.


I knew of a border collie who ate very little, looked like a skeleton. His owner opened a bag with 10 kg dried food, and let it stand. Result: He ate _less_, sort of got full by just seeing the plentitude!


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## Ranger1

I had one dog that was just anorexic and never ate more than she needed to stay upright. Extremely frustrating, and yeah, leaving food down never helped.


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## Ranger1

When I get a new dog, it usually takes them about a week to figure it out. They might only eat 3-4 meals in that week(I feed twice a day), but then after that they almost never skip more than one or two meals in a row ever again. Puppies I raise generally do good until around 6-8 months old, then they go through this phase of having to learn too. And again, it takes about a week.


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## Trollmor

Thanks, Ranger1!


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## NigerianNewbie

@svgoats Just wanted to check in with you and ask how things have been progressing with your dog.


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## lottsagoats1

I feed my dogs twice a day, 3 times in the extreme cold. I have no problem with my dogs protecting their food from the other animals, it's their food and I expect them to protect it, the goats learn pretty quickly to stay away. I give them their dishes, leave to feed the other animals, and then return. The bowls get picked up and put away until next feeding. If they don't eat, that's it until the next feeding. I have never had them actually bite another animal, except another dog if the other dog refuses to leave their dish alone.


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## lottsagoats1

That training method? I wouldn't use it. It teaches a dog to gulp it's food. Being large dogs that can lead to bloat. I want them to eat slowly and be reasonably relaxed. Excited about meal time? Ok, but not to where they have to gulp it or lose it. My dogs are way more important than that.


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## Ranger1

lottsagoats1 said:


> That training method? I wouldn't use it. It teaches a dog to gulp it's food. Being large dogs that can lead to bloat. I want them to eat slowly and be reasonably relaxed. Excited about meal time? Ok, but not to where they have to gulp it or lose it. My dogs are way more important than that.


I disagree. It has taught none of my dogs to gulp, and none of my dogs gulp. As long as they take that first bite right away, telling me they plan to eat, I don't care how long they take or how much they nibble at their food. They just can't step away or it's gone. Sometimes they see something else going on and just stand or sit by by their food bowl and watch until their curiosity is satisfied and then they go on eating.

If my dogs gulped like maniacs I'd feed them by hand, but that's another story...


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## Ranger1

lottsagoats1 said:


> I feed my dogs twice a day, 3 times in the extreme cold. I have no problem with my dogs protecting their food from the other animals, it's their food and I expect them to protect it, the goats learn pretty quickly to stay away. I give them their dishes, leave to feed the other animals, and then return. The bowls get picked up and put away until next feeding. If they don't eat, that's it until the next feeding. I have never had them actually bite another animal, except another dog if the other dog refuses to leave their dish alone.


With the exception of them starting to eat right away, I see no difference in what you are doing here and what I'm doing. That's exactly what I do-my snoopy Border Collies learn that I can feed the other animals without their help, and that if they come to interfere, they don't get to eat, as I put their food away when I am done feeding the other animals. That's why I do it.


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## Damfino

My dogs don't gulp their food either. Well, Pluto does when he's super hungry or when I add leftover table scraps or milk to his dish, but most of the time they don't gulp. Daisy takes forever to eat, but I never take her food away until she's actually finished (and I always know when she's actually finished vs. taking her time). Another reason I don't like to leave dog food out is it attracts unwanted critters--squirrels, birds, foxes, skunks, etc.


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## svgoats

We've been feeding twice a day and removing any uneaten food about 5 minutes after she stops nibbling (usually 15-20 minutes). We are starting to train her to eat in her "crate" so I am hoping this will keep her from patrolling in between bites. I'm going to design a drop door (like on a chicken coop) so that it's only accessible at meal time.














She is doing great with the herd, and will be running loose as soon as she stops trying to eat the neighbors.


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## Trollmor

Damfino said:


> Another reason I don't like to leave dog food out is it attracts unwanted critters--squirrels, birds, foxes, skunks, etc.


FLIES!!! Urgh!


svgoats said:


> She is doing great with the herd, and will be running loose as soon as she stops trying to eat the neighbors.


Eat the neighbours??? Do we have to teach the guarding dog the borders of the property, or are they attacking anyone approaching?


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## svgoats

It was a joke.


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## Trollmor

svgoats said:


> It was a joke.


Aha. (doh)


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