# Can people be brutally honest about Andy [emoji23]



## Kbarson (Jul 26, 2016)

So I'd love if people could critique Andy and please can I get as many peoples opinions as possible. Don't hold back, be as honest as you can! I know I've posters here a ton but I never get very many responses and I like to see how she is improving as she grows.

I'm hoping to get a critique about Andy. What you like about her, what you don't like. What you think, based on the photos of who she is bred to, what structural problems might be corrected through the breeding in her kids. Thanks!































































The last photo is her mom


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## Kbarson (Jul 26, 2016)

She is bred to blissberry Val chemerkovsky for April kids.

His mom is blissberry Vallerina























Dams Half sister Blissberry vallelujah























Half sister


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She is cute! Unfortunately I'm terrible at critiques.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

She's super cute. I'm terrible at dairy does that are not in milk. If she was in milk I'd have some better answers for you. I'm all about the udder and feet, plus what kind of keeper they are.

But I do not show. I have working farm goats, which is different I bet. lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What I can see in the pictures

She has the kind of Roman nose I like, which is there but not in-my-face-there. She has a nice long neck. I like her chest extension. 
Her rump is a good improvement over the steepness of her dam's Her legs are straight, I don't see any toeing out except in one and that could just be her turning to try to see what you are doing behind her.

Her hips are higher than her withers still and if you keep giving her extra vitamin D to support skeleton growth through her pregnancy, it will help her keep growing and not deny the baby. 

Her chine looks a little weak, but that could be her markings fooling my eye, making them follow the markings down, rather than the topline. She is more narrow in the escutcheon area than I like, but then, so are many of mine. Her ribcage likewise is not as well sprung as I like to see. and I can not tell if these faults are corrected in the buck she's bred to.

I wish the teat placement was better on the buck's dam's udder. The teats are so far to the outside that when she is full it is going to be an effort to milk her. I have one like that and it is a struggle when she is nice and tight. The rest of the udder is beautiful.

I hope this is helps. I'm certain someone better will come along soon.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Pros
Strong on her pasterns
Long legs
fairly level back
Withers are well blended into neck and into back

Cons:
a bit Steep in her rump 
Id like for her to be deeper in her brisket and chest floor
more length in her chin (Sp?)
More length to her rump
Better width between her pin bones

I like her better than her dam 
Im not too good at it but hopefully this helps. Looks like you picked out a nice buck for her.
It's hard to critique on here because I have keep scrolling up and down while im typing.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goatzrule said:


> I like her better than her dam


I do agree. Nice job of using breeding to upgrade.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Her rump is a good improvement over the steepness of her dam's


Yeah i saw her dams pic while it was loading so her legs and the words were cut off and i was like "whoa! that is no WAY that is the same goat!"then the words loaded and i was like oh that makes sense!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Goatzrule said:


> chin (Sp?)


Chine?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Do you have pictures of her from the front, so we can have a better idea of her width? Any other pictures of her dam’s udder?


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## Kbarson (Jul 26, 2016)

Goat_Scout said:


> Do you have pictures of her from the front, so we can have a better idea of her width? Any other pictures of her dam's udder?


I never got any photos of the dams udder, I tried and they would always say they'd send them then never did. I no longer have their info or I would ask.

I'm home alone and tried to get as good of photos as I could, but I can't set her up and take a photo by myself so I did my best. sorry they're a little rough but hopefully this helps some. Also, can anyone tell me if she looks like she's in heat? She was bred around the 7th, I was tracking her heat cycles and that was the day she should've been in standing heat. But now, back there looks swollen and has white discharge. She was bred 13 days ago, if she was cycling again wouldn't it be on the day 21 mark?

*disclaimer* I know some people hate these hay feeders but they were raised with them and have only ever had a head stuck once, to which she just stood there because I put them low enough that they can't dangle or really hurt themselves. I promise they know not to get their noggins stuck!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK, just a few quick things.
The 21 days is not written in stone, at least not here.

These pictures show her chine better, and I'm convinced now that it was a dark goat, in front of dark pants or jeans, with descending white spots making it look like her chine was weak. I no longer think that.

She looks quite narrow to me, chest, ribcage, hindquarters and escutcheon area. I'd try hard to breed her to a wider than normal buck.

I'd also keep quality minerals in front of her, and supplement that vitamin D to continue to develop her skeleton.

She looks very "dairy" to me, and looks like she has a great temperament.

That's me being brutally honest. Overall, I like her, and knowing I'd want to breed to a wider buck is just breeding to improve her faults.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Is it just me or is her hind end higher than her front


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, her hips are higher than her withers.


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## Kbarson (Jul 26, 2016)

One thing I forgot to mention was that where I had her tied, is where they eat so there’s a lot of loose hay and where she’s standing in back is higher up than her front. She is a little taller in the back but not as dramatically as in the photos. Thank you everyone so much! Please keep the critiques coming!


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## Kbarson (Jul 26, 2016)

mariarose said:


> OK, just a few quick things.
> The 21 days is not written in stone, at least not here.
> 
> These pictures show her chine better, and I'm convinced now that it was a dark goat, in front of dark pants or jeans, with descending white spots making it look like her chine was weak. I no longer think that.
> ...


Day 21 isn't written in stone, but would it be that early? At only 13 days?

Yay! Go chines! Lmao

One thing I always try to keep in mind, is that she had cocci as a kid and is a bit stunted. Hopefully that plays a little into her being so narrow. Also I may have forgotten to get them hay this morning so she hadn't eaten anything yet  oops lol. The buck she was bred to was pretty big, and his dad was even wider and bigger. So hopefully that norrowness gets corrected some in her kids.

Is there a certain vitamin d supplement you would recommend? One thing I worry about it over feeding her or giving her too much supplements and growing the kids too big for her to deliver.

Thank you for your critique!! This really helps me a lot. I'm trying to learn but it's helpful to have other people with a more trained eye to help me out. I'll never show her, but hopefully she has beautiful babies!


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

She has a good brisket, nice legs, strong feet. I personally prefer MORE convex nose on Nubians but hers is good, nice topline but high in the rump. The escutcheon is more narrow than I'd prefer. She could def use some width and spring. I think she totally improved her dam. I am not a fan of her dam and probably would have stayed away. But def improvements. I do like her and with the right buck those babies will be beautiful!

All that said, I own a dam I love in every way except she has a steep rump like your does mom.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm no expert, just willing to share what I see...


Kbarson said:


> Day 21 isn't written in stone, but would it be that early? At only 13 days?


Yes, it could be, especially since she's so young. Not all her hormones may be firing on all cylinders yet. Like when a human female first starts her cycle. It is not regular, not every cycle means an egg was mature and released, etc. All uterine mammals have issues getting hormones synced. It is normal, and will drive us bonkers.


Kbarson said:


> I may have forgotten to get them hay this morning so she hadn't eaten anything yet


I wasn't referring the lack of a full rumen, but the ribcage which is very close. As your eyes become accomplished and accustomed, you will more easily take note of things being different even when they are right next to one another.


Kbarson said:


> Is there a certain vitamin d supplement you would recommend?


No, not really. My mineral mix has 125,000 I.U of D (check your level). Cod liver oil has D. Replamin gel has D, ADE gel has D, human D-3 soft gels have D.

Replamin may well be the best, easiest, way to supply several nutrients. This will not make quality loose minerals unnecessary. You still need them.



Kbarson said:


> I worry about it over feeding her or giving her too much supplements and growing the kids too big for her to deliver.


That is understandable, and you are wise to be careful.

I'm not talking about giving lots of grain, which is one of the easiest ways to get large kids. Rather, I am more about making certain she has enough minerals and vitamins so that she can keep growing while growing babies. This will be less crucial next year, because more of the nutrition will be going for babies, not growing mama too.

And since you know she had a cocci infestation severe enough to stunt her, you'll understand that chances are her digestive system was damaged, too. So she'll need even higher levels of minerals and vitamins just to have enough in her body to match a doe that has not been harmed like that.

I'm not criticizing anything about your goat keeping, but I am offering ideas for a pre-emptive strike for kid health. She's obviously an important part of your herd plan, and these kids are a big part of success for you. I don't think that providing the nutrients we are talking about are going to grow them too large. Great questions.


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