# confused.....a little



## tonkatuff (Jul 24, 2013)

So im getting a buckling I a few days and im trying to get everything ready for him.
I've read to not feed bucks grain. Does this mean I only feed him hay, minerals and baking soda? And forage of course.
Seems like a boring life lol.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't feed baking soda to wethers or bucks unless they actually have bloat. Then you would just treat them with it until they no longer have bloat.

Yes, you can feed grain. You need to make sure his whole diet is 2/2.5:1 calcium to phosphorus. So if you buy goat grain, that is usually has a proper ratio. Then you figure out what you hay is. You can also add alfalfa pellets with the grain to up the calcium a bit.


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## tonkatuff (Jul 24, 2013)

Thank you 
I wonder why I've been hearing to limit their calcium do to calcium build up.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The no grain for bucks or wethers is based on fear of UC (urinary calculi) which can be feed induced with improper ph/ ca balance and or the animal is genetically predisposed.
My boys get grain with a coccistat in it as well as some ammonium chloride, especially while they are growing & certainly when working.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

People think UC is caused by calcium but it isn't. It is caused by an improper ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Usually the phosphorus is too high.


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## mirage_mp (Jun 29, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Don't feed baking soda to wethers or bucks unless they actually have bloat. Then you would just treat them with it until they no longer have bloat.
> 
> Yes, you can feed grain. You need to make sure his whole diet is 2/2.5:1 calcium to phosphorus. So if you buy goat grain, that is usually has a proper ratio. Then you figure out what you hay is. You can also add alfalfa pellets with the grain to up the calcium a bit.


Why don't you keep baking soda in front of them? Sorry, hope you don't mind my asking.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm on my phone so I can't search but if you do a search, I answered that on another thread.

Personally I just don't like to leave it out free choice because I worry about them getting too dependent on baking soda and it not working well when they really have bloat. I would rather make sure they have a healthy rumen through diet.


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## mirage_mp (Jun 29, 2013)

Ah, I see. Mine barely touch it. The does use it more, though there are more of them. Anyway, that's good to know. Thank you.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

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ksalvagno said:


> People think UC is caused by calcium but it isn't. It is caused by an improper ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Usually the phosphorus is too high.


I agree! More people should hear this. I depends on where you live, though, which one is too high. Here- Phosphorus is so low that giving your goat a handful of alfalfa will cause major UC problems, because of the calcium levels.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The baking soda alkalizes the urine. This can cause stones to grow in the unhealthy urine PH. It also deactivates the Ammonium Chloride. It is twice as strong so, if you feed a teaspoon of AC he only has to lick up 1/2 teaspoon to deactivate it. 

Trinity, do you know what kind of stones are common in your area?


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

What kind of UC stones? No... I didn't know there were different kinds!

But according to this mineral map, our CA/P ratio is pretty much 23:1. That's 11 times as much calcium as needed!!! http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/county.php?place=f06079&el=P&rf=southwestern


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok first things first. You can give grain to your buck. In fact most pack goat owners feed a grass hay and supplement a grain. Usually a 14% all stock or even goat chow for those that can afford it. This is done because alfalfa has a 1.50% calicum by volume level on average. Grasses are lucky to get to .50. Wethers are much more acceptable to UC so a more cautious feeding method is used. So depending upon what you are feeding him, give grain as needed. Bucks for the most part dont have issues eating just alfalfa and nothing else. We have feed dairy quality alfalfa for nearly 20 years (no grain supplement) and have never had a UC issue to this day. And as for areas with higher calcium soils, that doesnt really translate into a crop grown feed. There are lots of variables but there is only so much a crop can absorb and the longer that ground has been farmed the less minerals it has to pass on to a crop. 

A loose grain mineral supplement (not blocks), given free choice is of course needed. Most blocks are to hard and a goat can wear down their teeth trying to get what they need outta it. Dont use a sheep and goat mix as the amount of copper a sheep can have is way lower then a goat should have. Use a cow mix. If you can get it as a pre mix the mineral contents will be higher. Cow farmers then add salt to the pre mix. DO NOT DO THIS for goats. The pre mix has enough salt in it already for goats.

And no on the baking soda for boys. For reasons already mentioned but I wouldnt even give it free choice to does either. Its a rumin buffer (meaning it helps it) there is no need for it to be given if everything is in working order. If you want, give a half cup in your grain supplement. Do not add it to loose mineral mixes. Some goats will eat more of the minerals then needed just to get to the baking soda.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, can someone tell me what this means for my area?
http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/county.php?place=f36083&el=Ca&rf=northeastern


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

It means pretty much nothing. Unless your goats are eating nothing but foliage from the area the tested


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...ok, I see your point...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

TDG-Farms said:


> Ok first things first. You can give grain to your buck. In fact most pack goat owners feed a grass hay and supplement a grain. Usually a 14% all stock or even goat chow for those that can afford it. QUOTE]
> 
> Huh-uh not my boys. Completely unbalanced grass hay and muco-protein matrix loaded feed. Totally not a great idea. All my wethers get alfalfa and whole grains, with some grass hay. It's all balanced 3:1 CA/PH. You live where there are weeds with Oxalic Acid. They need the calcium to clear that from their bodies.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Genetics as well as diet play a role in whether a buck/wether will have a problem with UC.
I use an 18%goat feed with a alfalfa or clover mixed hay.... my bucks and growing boys get a bit of grain during rut as well as loose minerals with AC...My growing boys gets calf manna/feed mix at a rate of 1/2 cup 2x aday til a year old.
All my goats have the same hay... I do give my does alfalfa pellets if my hay is a mix.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

We feed our growing and working bucks meatgrower feed which is formulated to prevent cocci and uc.


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