# Joy Kidded! Baby pics added



## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

I'm just so excited that I wanted to start her a kidding thread. She was confirmed pregnant through bio-tracking. I figured that I would update through her pregnancy. She is now 82 days bred and I think looking good. I cant waite to see what she has, doe or buck probably going to keep. She has really nice bloodlines, her father is a full brother to Buttin'Heads Wedding Song. With like Creek Road Hudson +S and Buttin'Heads Brydedal Veil 2*D. So some really nice goats and hoping she has really nice baby/babies. But if they are healthy and ok I will be satisfied. So here are some pics of her right at this moment and one of the father to be.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Those are great looking animals and will give you some nice kids!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Only 63 days to go!!!! Thats with counting to 145 days.....you are sure to get some very pretty kiddo's too...their daddy is one handsome boy!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

very nice .......can't wait to see the kids.... :greengrin: :thumbup:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Thanks so much for the nice reply's. I cant waite to see these kids either. Im hoping that everything goes well this is her first kidding, she is 2 1/2. This will be my first babies under my herdname so really excited about that to. But will keep you updated as we go. Thanks again.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

It is very exciting to be getting kids with your herd name...filling in those applications for the first time is very exciting. I had that thrill this past March and I am very happy for you!

The first time mom's do well very well even though they make us worry...I just had my first FF in 2 years bred tonite....so I'll be nervous right along with you :hug:


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

How exciting! Very pretty parents so you should have some beautiful babies! Good luck!!!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Thanks so much I do think they are beautiful parents. I hoping for doe/does so they can be shown this next year. But if not will evaluate buck and see if he is worth keeping. I think Im going to sell couple bucks off this next year and purchase one to take their place. But thanks again so happy cant waite its killing me lol.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*



> Thanks so much for the nice reply's.


 Your very welcome.. :wink: ...it is torture ...waiting to see... if the kids are... girls or boys...what coloring ect........
I wish.. there was something ...so we could take a peak inside.... :greengrin: :wink:


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## shadycreekgoats (Mar 23, 2009)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Very pretty doe & buck!!!  Can't wait for babies!! :stars:


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Lovely goats!! You should get some AWESOME kids!!!! :thumb:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Beautiful goats! I am excited to see the kids that you get! Sounds like they are going to have some very nice bloodlines too! Keep us posted!!


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## jduwall (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

what a beautiful breeding pair...can't wait to see the babies...


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Thanks so much everyone, the excitment is just driving me up the wall. Everyday I keep checking her to see if she has gotten any bigger, or if her udder is filling in anymore. Ok Im a nut lol. But I really am excited and cant waite these last two months will seem like forever. Im already starting to do this :hair: he he. But thanks for all the nice comments.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

LOL ...I see you have joined ...the pull out your hair club.... :hair:


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Pam...I think I am or will be president of the pull out your hair club!!! :hair: :hair: :hair: :hair: 
:ROFL: :slapfloor: :ROFL: :slapfloor:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Joy's kidding thread 82 days bred.*

Well here are some updated pics of Joy. She is now 102 days bred. She is starting to get a nice little udder comming in. Not to much longer to go and I cant waite.

























Edited to add: I think she looks like she is going to have only one what do you think.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

One more pic.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

I'd guess a single or twins. I've seen does not showing just like that and have triplets and I've see does twice as big have singles. Good luck! See that udder coming in too!


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

My doe looked like twins and had triplets (not expecting that!) so I would say twins.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

Yea Im thinking a single to. But the doe that is gold and white in the pic with her, she looked like she was only going to have one and she had triplets. I would have never guessed that. So who knows lol. Only 48 more days to find out.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

I see that udder! I can't wait for my bred girls to start theirs.

She's low enough in the belly to be hiding twins......and I do not think she'll be making you wait another 48 days....it'll be more like another 43 :wink:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy 102 days bred now!*

Ok Im writing to update. Joy is on day 124. 26 days to go if she goes to 150. I gave her a hair cut around her legs and udder and stuff. I know it looks pretty bad, but she didnt want to stand still lol. Here are some pics I took this morning.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

I don't know a lot about goats yet, but I say. :baby: :baby: Hope everything goes well for you! :hi5:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*



> Pam...I think I am or will be president of the pull out your hair club!!! :hair:


 Sorry I missed your comment RowdyKidz.... :hug: ...I think you will be to....LOL :ROFL:

She is coming along nicely....I'd say twin as well... :wink: ...Happy kidding... :thumb:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

Thanks all I hoping for twins. I would like doe/buck combo. But probably will get two bucks. Im super excited cant waite for them to get here. My husband also said that if I would let him pick out a buck to keep he will show him this year. Of course I said yes lol. I would love for my husband to get involved in showing with me it would be fantastic. Anyways not to many days left to see what she has, the days seem to be dragging by. Im going :GAAH: waiting, starting to :hair: .


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

hmm I thought I responded to this.

Looks like a single to me :baby:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

Yea it only looks like a single to me to, but Ive heard that is to be expected with FF. She is pretty deep but that doesnt always mean anything. Cant waite no matter how many she has hope for a doe though if she only has one. lol Thanks for the reply


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## shadycreekgoats (Mar 23, 2009)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

I'm thinking twins.... :baby: :baby:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy now 124 days bred.*

Ok update she is on 136 today. 14 more days to go. I cant waite im so excite, I just cant hide it lol. Well she is looking good and here are pics from today. What you think do you think she will hold out 14 more day.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy day 136 14 more days to go.*

she still has a ways to go to fill that udder -- ND tend to go closer to 145 then 150 from my experience but not always

I always start my watch as early at 140 because I had had goats go on like 142


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy day 136 14 more days to go.*

Ok just wondering about that. This will be my first real kidding season. I had one doe that I bought bred last year and she went on 140 but she was carrying triplets, so dont know if that had anything to do with it or not. So I will be on baby whatch soon lol. I cant help it seems like the first four months went so fast and now the last two weeks have been at a standstill. But thanks for the help.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy day 136 14 more days to go.*

Oh you are so close now. It won't be long till she is giving up those babies. And I say babies cause I am going to guess twin does from Joy. You would be surprised how they can hide them so well. And they like to surprise you. :wink:

Wow the sire of this breeding is a flashy guy, he really has the moon spots. I can't wait to see what Joy and him produce. I will be watching to see the results of this thread for sure. Can't wait to see these babies!!! :dance:

I am wishing you and Joy nothing but healthy babies and an easy birthing. :hi5:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy day 136 14 more days to go.*

Thanks so much for your kind words. Im pretty nervous but hope everything goes well. Wish I had someone that lived close to me that I could call and they could come over but I dont. But yea not to much longer to go. Hoping for a flashy buckskin with moonspots. lol. But will update again in a few days.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated pics of Joy day 136 14 more days to go.*

Today is 140 or 141. Can she be going into labor already? Her tail looks like is is broken and hanging down. She keeps looking back behind her some. Also I have seen her do the strangest thing. She has did this twice today she looks like she is streching then her tail comes up to her back and she kinda looks hump up like she is straining. But I havnt seen any big amount of mucuos. Just what is in her tail hair. Can someone give me the signs of labor from a couple of days before to kidding. Thanks I want to make sure im with her cause she is a FF.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

She is likely getting those kids positioned for delivery, the stretching is normal. When you see an abundant amount of mucous, delivery is usually within hours. She's close and since I have had kids arrive at 143 before, they and she will be fine. When her whole tail head, ligament area turns to total mush thats when she'll be ready to show you those babies.

What my girls have done besides the stretching is to sit on their butts, normally they start this the day they deliver, it's their way of letting gravity work for them.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

its early prelabor or just her getting kids into position

check out this site:

http://kinne.net/ob1.htm


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

They are both really pretty  Hopefully you get does :girl:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

Hey thanks yea I hope she has doe/does to. Well today is 143 and nothing new. Set up baby moniter last night and I think that drove me more crazy then going down to the barn and looking at her. She has dropped cause she is starting to look skinny in her backend. Tail just hangs like its broke. Her legs are so straight the back ones like shes posty but I dont think they are suppose to do that untill they deliver. Udder has not gotten any bigger, but she has never freshened so dont know if she fills before are after. Well I seen a little white discharge on turkey day but nothing really since. So im going :hair: . Anyways im still waiting and going nuts.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

So exciting! Babies very soon! Good luck!!!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update of Joy day 140 0r 141. Help can labor be starting!*

Ok she is on day 143 so here are pics from today. She is holding her tail in a different position today and never seen her do that though. Havnt seen any discharge today, but she doesnt want me to touch her back there at all. So I cant feel for ligs cause she runs from me and I dont want to stress her out. But I hope she hurries cause im :hair: lol









































So who knows maybe she is just going to go all the way to 150 and ill be out of my mind by then. lol


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Updated day 143, new pics of Joy*

She;ll go late on day 144 or wait til the afternoon she hits 145. When her udder triples in size and she allows you to touch her, thats the day she'll be showing you those babies.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Updated day 143, new pics of Joy*

She's definitely getting there. Mine always double their udder before kidding too. I don't think you'll have much more to wait. But I've had some really keep me guessing too. Hope she doesn't make you wait too much longer! If we're throwing guesses out I'll say day 147. No real reason, just my guess.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Updated day 145, new pics of Joy*

Ok today is 145, I actually think her udder looks like it has gotten bigger. But who knows with me. She is a FF and Im new at this to. She is pretty sunken in and she kept smelling the hay last night. She is moaning now when she lays day but that might just be from being uncomfortable. But havnt noticed anything really different today, so I guess it will not be today. O and she is eating still good and actually constantly looking for something to eat. lol Well here are some pics from this morning.


































I still dont understand what her udder will look like when its strutted. Im not good at that.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145.*

Her udder is definately fuller and I bet you'll be seeing kids before tomorrow night!!

Strutted is when the udder is tight and full, the teats are filled as well, and she is looking to be very close to that now.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145.*

I can see by her udder she is getting close now. It is starting to strut just a bit but not quite there. It will look so full that it appears more hairless, pink and shiney looking.
Good luck! It won't be long!!! :thumbup:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145.*

Ok just took these pics. She is starting to get strings of goob. She is crying , crying and crying. She quiet when Im there but the minute I leave then she starts crying. I got my baby moniter on. So hoping its soon dont know how long I can stand to listen to her cry.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Sorry dear but you are in for a long night!! She'll be going soon....within the next 12 -18 hours


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## Idahodreamer (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Yay! Babies!  :clap: :stars: Have a nice slumber party in the barn!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Oh yep...she is ready!! Keep us posted!


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Yep yep! She will be kidding soon! :girl: :girl: !!!! Good luck and can't wait for pics!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Yea I probably am in for a long night but it will be worth it, if I get to see them born. This will be the first time for me if I dont miss it. She has quieten down now, but now she is digging holes in the straw. She keeps stopping and looking behind her. So hopefully babies on the ground by tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted.


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Oh good to see you are ready, sure she is. LOL Have all you  ... You will need it or you will be :ZZZ: or :hair: before you know it. Can't wait for pics!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Yep, Babies very soon!!!! :baby: :baby: :stars:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Oh yes....she is well on her way..... Happy kidding..... :hug: :greengrin:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

she's close! :thumb: hope all goes well


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

I am so excited for you. :leap: Can't wait to see your babies!!! Good luck! :dance:


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Good luck!!! I just got done with my one doe this morning.Started same way is yours.Yep yep long night ahead of ya!  :coffee2: Prayen all goes well for ya.Pictures pictures!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Added more pics of goop*

Well they are here she had twins buck/doe. But this was a horrible birth for my first one. The buck was first and he was stuck, he was trying to come out just one leg. We tryed and tried to find the other one and couldnt. Thank God for my neighbor that lives next door that raises boers. If it wasnt for her help tonight I might have lost them all. So she pushed the leg back cause we couldnt find the other one. At this point we figure he would be dead so I told her to just get him out cause I didnt want to lose my doe. So she got ahold of his head and when she contracted she pulled. He came straight out and he was still alive thank the Lord. The the little doe came out right after that. Of course the buck is beautiful black with moonspots, and the doe looks like she might have a moonspot or two not sure yet. Mommy is pretty wore out. So how long should I let her lay before I make her get up and feed them. Also since we had to go in what antibotics should I use?
These kidding just about done me in. I was about to cry my eyes out my boys where about to cry. My neighbor was apologizing to me but she was a Godsend.

Will post pics tomorrow. Im totally wore out.


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## Idahodreamer (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Oh my gosh how scary! :hug: that sounds like it was really traumatic!
Glad the doe and babies are ok.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Don't let it deter you. Sometimes we just have hard kiddings and we learn from them. Now you know what to do next time. :hug: :hug: AND you got live kids, which is really awesome.

For your doe. I'd offer her some warm molasses water. If she isn't up and nursing those kids yet then get her up and let them nurse. I'd start her on LA-200 or Pen G. Let me know what you have and i will give you the dose for it.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Congrats on the twins!!! :leap: You did wonderful. You got help when needed and have two live babies and momma. Congrats on that! You are a great goat momma!

Your girl is just exhausted from the hard labor. I would do as RunAround suggested with the warm molasses water, she will appreciate that and it will give her energy. But make sure those babies eat soon. Once they have their bellies full the three can snuggle in for a much deserved rest. And you too! :hug:

Can't wait to see pictures! :dance:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

The only thing I have is Pen aqueous. Should I get something else? Thanks for the kind words. When I was setting there with her, I thought this is it no more. I cant handle this but then we finally got him out, and words cant express how I felt. Just glad he lived through it. My neighbor just kept woring about my doe, she kept saying I hope I didnt hurt her. But Im glad for her. Promise there will be pics tomorrow.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

good work :thumb: as TIna said you got help when you needed it  I have a number of kiddings under my belt but I still contact people when I need help.

Congrats on the live and healthy kids and go and pamper mom :stars:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

I'd give 1cc per 20 lbs twice a day for 5 days. :thumb:


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## shanzone2001 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

*Congratulations!!! You did an amazing job and are an inspiration to those of us who are about to go through this for the first time. I have been following your thread.....your goats are lucky to have an attentive, quick thinking Mama!!! Can't wait to see pictures once you are rested!!! You deserve a glass of wine! I will have one for you! :wahoo: *


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Job well done! Don't let it get to ya.Sounds like you did great! :stars: Can't wait to see pictures!


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Congratulations on the live babies! I'm glad they all went through delivery and are alive. Can't wait to see pictures.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Here are the pics I promised. They are not very good, but will get more lately. Boy has the big white spot on his head. But I have a question, im really worried about my doe. She wont eat and i had to make her get up. She does drink but that is all. But I think maybe my neighbor pulling the babies messed her up bad. Im afraid she is going to die. I took a pic to show you what her backside looks like. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks


























Is there anything I could give her for pain. Also would vit. b complex be good to give to her.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

backside is normal

as to her not eating I would give her some calcium, nutri drench and more molasses water. If you dont have a calcium supplement or drench give her some tums or calcium pills.

If you have Bcomplex give her a shot of that, you can use human pills if you dont have the shot. The Bcomplex will stimulate her appetite.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Congrats the babies are adorable.... 

I agree with Stacey....on things that will help her....

Did your neighbor make sure there wasn't anymore kids in there?

Did she expel the afterbirth ?

How is her temp?


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

Ok I gave her some nutridrench, shot of vit. b complex, and gave her antibotics. I did make her get up again and feed babies. Which they are eating good and seem really strong considering what the boy went through. I did see the afterbirth but she didnt get rid of it till this morning is that normal? She is very sore and when the kids suck she moans in pain. They are cute little buggers and have already stole my heart. Glad to know that her backside is normal. Will keep up antibotics and how often can you give vit b shots. I have tums so will give her some of them. Thanks for all your help dont know what I would do without you all. :grouphug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Update pics of Joy today is 145. Joy Kidded!*

I would just keep enticing her to eat anything -- even if its only treats. I had doe do this after a normal healthy kidding so it isnt abnormal - giving birth is hard on them.

you cant OD her on the Bcomplex but I dont know how much is enough -- I would give her like 3-44ccs and then wait to see improvement.

as to the moaning when nursing -- is her udder real full and tight? if so milk her out some to relieve the pressure so when they do nurse it isnt uncomfortable to her.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You did great, and you have 2 healthy adorable kids!

Mama will be very sore for awhile, all advice given is exactly what I would say as well...give her as much fresh, warm mollasses water as she wants and get her up often, as Stacey said, try relieving some pressure from her udder, that could be the source of her discomfort.

Good Job and Congratulations.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Nice job! It is always nice to have someone/more than one person with you when you have a doe delievering...It took three people to get a buck kid out of one of my doe's.

I really suggest putting molasses in your doe's water. It helps bunches!!!

This is also a suggestion: If the kids are really massive sized I would cut down on grain for you future kiddings as I've found that to be a factor in overly large kids. 

Congrats! They are adorable and you did an awesome job!!!


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## Idahodreamer (Sep 19, 2009)

Super cute babies! Love the moonspots!


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

So cute  Are you keeping both of them?


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

They are adorable!  Congrats!!!
Hope momma is feeling better real soon. :hug:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

They are really cute! Congrats! And love the moon spots! 

I had a friend with a doe that acted kind of like that, she actually kept pushing thinking there was another kid in there and wouldn't stand or eat, the next day she was a lot better. Hopefully your doe will start feeling better, I agree though that her back side looks normal. Keep us posted.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Thats what she is doing is pushing like she has another kid in there. So a long time breeder friend recommended I give her a shot of lute in case she did still have something else in there. I feel like I have been a bad goat momma. I feel like I have let this goat down. Will any of this medicine hurt the kids when they drink from her. Should I just go ahead and pull these babies and bottle feed them. Im lost and feel like im doing everything wrong. I just dont know what to do or think at this point. Thanks


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## Victoria (Dec 20, 2008)

Don't know about the lute, we do use it alot at my clinic, and the babies always go to nursing right after, so it must be alright..
I must tell you though..I always always feel like a total and complete bad person when there is ever a problem with my goats..I am fairly new to goats (5yrs) and hate to be home with kiddings, would rather be off working while my 13 yr old calmly collectively takes care of the situation while I am very far away!! It sounds like you did a wonderful job at taking good care of your doe, before, during, and after the kidding...you have to expect problems, and go with it..it is what it is...and you are doing fine..pat yourself a few times on your back, then give yourself a huge break... :wink: 
Oh, and ps...you did have a special blessing with those awesome babies!! Whith moon dots of all things!!! :greengrin:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Joanie -- is she laying there grunting? did she pass all of the afterbirth? Have you tried going in again to see if there is another kid? (yes another kid can be in there even if she expelled the afterbirth)

Sometimes you will notice small contractions as the uterus shrinks back -- but if she is in pain I would be concerned.

is she eating yet? 

the nutri drench is all natural -- safe for the kiddos

the penicillin wont hurt the kids either

B complex is a vitamine - not harmful to the kids. She will pee out any extra so you cant Over dose her on it.

Calcium is safe as well. 


So no you arent giving anything that will harm the kids 

I am always out of sorts when something doesnt go as planned. I am usualy on the phone with Ashley (RunAround) at that point asking her silly questions and jsut needing the reasurance I am doing the right thing and all I can.

I REALLY suggest you get a temperature on your doe --- if she has an infection setting in, her uterus is torn etc you will want to be on top of it ASAP.

Chances are she is fine but being aware is very important. 

Again what I would do if she is still down and not getting up without your prodding

1) take her temp
2) calcium supplement
3) nutri drench
4) selenium gel or BoSe injection
5) B Complex shot or human tablets

and of course make sure you keep up the penicillin for at least 5-7 days


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

I am so sorry you are going through this. And you are far from being a bad goat mom. Sometimes these things happen, and you are here seeking help for her. You are trying and that is all you can do. :wink: 
I am not so sure I would give this doe lutalyse quite yet if at all. I don't think this doe should be pushing right nowas it will cause her to 'abort' anything in there. It is always possible she has a torn uterus. If so this could make things worse. She will bleed out quickly. Is she bleeding and if so is it heavy? Is the blood bright red? Is she is dire pain? If so you need to seek a vet. She may have been torn inside from the traumatic delivery.
If she is not bleeding any unusual amount or it is does not look like "fresh" blood. Then she may not have any internal injuries at all. Lets hope not.
So then I would do as Stacey recommended. She gave you very good advice! 
Also if giving Antibiotics offer her probios. After all the stress and meds she will need to reflorish her rumen with the "good" bacteria. And make sure she is drinking. If even it is warm molassis water. The molassis will help build her iron levels up. To get her to eat, try making her warm oatmeal. That is what I got my doe to eat for the first time after her C-Section. Worked like a charm.
Good luck and I hope this is nothing more than an extremely tired momma after a very hard kidding!
:hug:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Now I feel really awfull. Cause I already gave her the lute. Now im scared to death, no I dont think my friend made sure there wasnt anymore in there. My problem also is there is no good goat vets around here nobody wants to mess with them. I will keep doing what I can for her and hope the lute doesnt kill her. Maybe she did get tore inside and now I will cause her to bleed out. I dont think she is was bleeding anything abnormal but I havnt had enough goat births to know that for sure. I will do all that was suggested and hope that I can save her, but I may have already gave her, her death sentence for doing something so stupid. Thanks for your help.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You are doing nothing but good for Joy, the lute won't hurt the kids either as it is only hormones.

Make her some oatmeal, mine like the old fashioned oats but the quick cooking oats work just as well...mix a bit of mollasses into them and offer them to her. If she is bleeding out, bright red then she likely did suffer a tear and there is really nothing that can be done for her. Continue with the nutridrench, B complex and probiotics and penicillan, get her to stand and walk and keep getting those babies to nurse.

I went through this very same think 2 years ago, so I do know how awful you feel......like it is your fault. Believe me,you did what needed to be done and having the support you do really helps. At the time when I needed help, I had no one, TGS wasn't here and like you I enlisted the help of a neighbor. I know now what I could have done to save my doe and her babies and though it still hurts, I also know that it is part of raising goats and a learning experience.

Easier said than done, but don't beat yourself up over doing what had to be done, if you had done nothing at all the outcome would have been much worse. You have 2 healthy kids that momma knows she needs to care for, keeping them with her is best for the moment, taking them away now will cause her stress.
I am so sorry that you can't find a vet in the area that will care for goats, it took alot of phone calls from me to find the 2 that I now deal with.


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## helmstead (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh, what gorgeous babies! :stars: 

I would have done oxytocin, and a uterine flush with saline/oxytetracycline. ANY time we intervene we do systemic antibiotics, too.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

Now listen, whatever happens to this doe will not be your fault. You are out there with her trying your best. Things happen and the most you can do under circumstances like this one, is try. And you are trying. So please remember that. :hug: 

Now more than likely she does not have a torn uterus if you do not see heavy bleeding, or bright red fresh blood. So the lute is not going to kill her. If you ever need to use anything to "clean her out" after kidding due to the possibility of another kid or a retained placenta, maybe try Oxytocin over Lutalyse. I agree with helmstead on the use of the Oxytocin and the uterine antibiotic flush. But again if her uterus was torn, the Oxytocin would have caused her to push as if contracting having her bleed out as well. So there is no win-win solution here. If her uterus was torn or other internal bleeding it is not a good prognosis either way. So it would not have been YOU that killed her. It would have been the injuries in itself.

But I think you would know by now if it was that severe. Apparently it is not. She is still with you. Liz is right, get her to eat something. Oatmeal w/ molassis. Keep trying. And pick her some leaves and keep offering her those. The Vit. B should be stimulating her appetite. She will want to eat soon if she is only exhausted and sore from the birthing.

BTW, what is this does temperature? That will give you an idea what is going on. If it is high she has an infection setting in. If it is low, a sign of low blood pressure from bleeding or that her rumen is shutting down. Knowing her temp would really help.

Keep up the good job, and don't give up on her or blame yourself. You have did nothing wrong. Not even by giving her the Lute. Hey the Lute may clean out whatever was/is causing this. Offer her hay, leaves, oatmeal wet and dry, mollasis, and the meds that Stacey suggested. 
You may want to place a cool compress on her vulva area for some relief and comfort.

She is still here, so it may be nothing more than a tired girl you have on your hands. Give her a hug and try and enjoy those babies, they are beautiful. :hug:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks you all so much for all your kind words. I am almost in tears cause people who dont even know me is so willing to help me. You people are the best. I checked on the babies and they where acting like they where starved to death so I had some goat milk that I warmed up and gave them about two onces a piece. Then went about my chores and then guess what I come back and she is standing up feeding them. So that made me laugh, I thought them little buggers their getting it twice. I will try the oatmeal and see if she will eat that. I will keep up the anitibotics and vit. b shots and nutridrench which she loves. I will keep trying to entice her. I told the Lord I know that I probably dont pray like I should but to please hear my prayer and touch my doe. I so dont want to lose her.

I just wanted to ask to I probably should never breed her again right. Are do you think I should try again and see what happens. My husband says I shouldnt, so im not sure on what I should do about that. Thanks again for all your help.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

Yea!!! :leap: She is getting up and feeding her babies! :leap: That is a very good sign of things to come. Keep up the great job!!! :hug: 
As for breeding her again, only time will tell. It could have been a fluke, just a mispositioned baby, or overly large buck. So it's hard to say. It may never happen again, or she could be one of those that just has birthing problems for some unknown reason. Hard to say. 
Just do what you think is right for this doe once this is in the past, you wll be more clear thinking about it. :thumbup:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok this has to be a good sign she is starting to nibble at hay. She is getting up more to feed babies and she is starting to act like she is cleaning them some. I made her oatmeal and she nibbled at that to. I gave her more nutridrench and she drank two squirts real good. I also gave her a tums. Here in a a little bit going to give her, her anitbotic shot and vit. b shot. I dont think she has much milk cause she isnt eating much so im going to let them drink off her and bottle feed them a few times a day just to make sure they are getting enough. Thanks for all the help I have gotten off here you just dont know how much it means to me. I hope this means she is on the road to recovery.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

Wow! So good to hear! Sounds like she's gonna be just fine.GREAT JOB TO YOU! I'm sure she appreciates every effort you have made for her. Keep up the good work and least you have the experience and also ALL of them with you still.I would be needing one of these after all that! :cheers:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She is well on the road to recovery, standing on her own and wanting to eat are wonderful signs :leap: 

She will have enough milk for her babies, you don't want them too full from the bottle so that they don't nurse mom, the demand on her from the babies is what will have her make more. Keep up the antibiotic and the molasses water, as well as the probiotics.

As far as breeding her again....don't make a decision in haste, she's just kidded, and the chance that this happened because the kid was too big does not mean it will happen again, you have a good while before you need to make a life decision for Joy.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Yea I will not breed her again untill Oct. 2010 anyways even if I do. So I know i got plenty of time to make this decsion. I dont think I over fed her to make the babies to big. I dont over grain my goats at all. The babies where small I thought but I didnt weigh them so im not sure. But I will keep letting them suck and hopefully that will help her milk to come down, the only thing I was worried about is if she doesnt start eating good wont she dry up. I mean dont they have to drink and eat to produce enough milk. Thanks again for all the help.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

If I have a doe kid and her vulva is super swollen and irritated then I put preperation H on her. Soothing and cool and helps with the discomfort and swelling. 

Those babies are gorgeous! Congratulations!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

her milk will come in with the demand for it -- so keep the kids on her. Like I said before I had a doe do this on me -- not eating and almost no milk for 3 days then suddenly she was normal and had plenty of milk.

Just keep enticing her and she will bounce back :thumb:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Well update I had to go ahead and pull the babies, she is milking blood in one side and the other side is milk but not much. At this point I just want to do what is best for the babies and mom. I will keep up my treatment for mom and do warm compresses and milk out some of the blood in her udder. I put her back with the other does and she seems so much happier now. As soon as I put her back with them she starting eating and drinking good. She is hurting so bad and such a bad experience for her that she doesnt even seem to care that she doesnt have her babies. They miss her but I know that will soon pass. But I will try to keep everyone updated thanks.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I would check her for mastitis and get treatment right away! They can die from mastitis if not treated.


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## Steph (May 7, 2009)

Congratulations on you first babies!! I had my first in July. It's scary but such a wonderful experience to see new life. Enjoy the little ones they grow fast!

I had a similar situation back in July with my second doe to kid. Her back end looked way worse than your doe. I put witch hazel on the swelling. It seemed to work great. It took mine a good week before she was eating normally and moving without pain. I take the blame for her hard kidding. I over fed and the doe was fat. I am just thankful that I didn't lose mama or baby. I am super careful what my pregnant does get to eat now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww .....that is wonderful....she is doing better..... :hug: :wink: :thumbup: :hi5: :stars:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

JUST wanted to update that my doe joy had to be put down. I thought she might have had mastitis, but she had internal bleeding. She was bleeding out. The babies where pulled wrong by my neighbor and caused internal problems. Im really sad and its been rough, to top it off I fell and broke my wrist Sat. and it isnt a simple break I have to have surgery on it. So im having a real hard time doing anything at all. I have two bottle babies to feed five times aday so things are hard right now. 

Babies are doing good and growing good, they are beautiful. Im going to keep the doe but sell the little boy. IM going to name the little girl WGF Moonlight Miracle. They are my little miracles.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I am so sorry about your doe and your wrist. Seems bad things like to pile up on top of each other. Internal bleeding would not have caused her to milk blood, mastitis would have caused that. :hug:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Well I thought maybe internal bleeding would make her udder fill up with blood. But she did have internal bleeding it was bad. She was bleeding everywhere and couldnt hardly walk it was bad. IT was so hard to do im heart broken. But life goes on and I will have to get over it. But thanks whatever the problem was I hope I never have to go through it ever again.


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## creekbottomgoats (Dec 3, 2009)

I am so sorry for your lost and your injury. I agree with RunAround, it seems like one bad thing always follows another. 

Don't let this discourage you. You did a great job trying to tend to your doe. It always helps if you can find a vet to call in case of emergencies. I live in the country and I have a vet to call, but it will take him over a hour to get here if I need him. Sometimes things just happen no matter who is there.

Every kidding is different and you have walked away with a lot of knowledge and beautiful healthy kids. Give yourself time and your nerves will be replaced with excitement!!

Good luck,
Connie :hug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

yes, if there was blood coming out of her back end then she did hemorrhage somehow. But the blood in her udder would have been from mastitis because the blood in the abdomen cannot reach the udder. Please know it may not be the other person's fault. I had a doe start to hemorrhage and I didn't have to go in to reposition at all. It just started pouring out of her but I started massaging her belly to get the uterus to clamp down and I got lucky and it stopped. Sometimes we don't know why things happen, they just do. I am very sorry for your loss. Please don't blame yourself or the person who helped you. This could have happened to any one who breeds and raises goats. It's the chance we take, and it's hard when we loose them, but we learn and move on in time. 

Just know you did everything you could for her and helped to ease her pain in the end. Take care of yourself now and those two little miracles she gave you. 

:hug: :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so sorry :hug: You did what you could for Joy and though it broke your heart, you did the kindest thing for her by letting her go.
Take care of yourself, those precious little miracles will need you :hug:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

O Im not blaming her I just thought the way she went in might have done it. I always read that you are suppose to put your fingers together real tight and go in like that. BUT SHE LEFT HER THUMB OUT AND WENT IN WITH JUST HER FINGERS AND DUG AROUND. sorry for the caps having a hard time typing. I tried to tell her the way I had read to do it but she didnt listen to me. Then instead of her finding his other leg she pushed the one back and pulled him out by his head. The whole time my doe was screaming her head off. But im not blaming her and im not mad at her. I know things happen and this was one of those things. So I guess she had internal bleeding and mastits. I cleaned the barn out as well as i could with a broken wrist is this contagious to my other goat? Thanks


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

no there is no danger to any of your other girls :hug: I am sorry it ended that way. But you have some beautiful kids from her and thats awesome :thumb:


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

OH MY WORD I am so sorry to hear that.  You did the best you could though and you do still have 2 beautiful babies from her.Hope everything goes ok with your wrist.It does seem like these things happen all at once.My dad passed away in July and shortly after that my son broke his coller bone and then my grandpa had to have open heart surgery and nearly died to.All in a few weeks of one another.I felt like my world was crashing around me.Hang in there.This to shall pass :hug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear this.

I just want to let you know(I know you are not blaming your neighbor), but I can tell you really are wondering if something she did caused this. That is a very normal question and concern.

I just want to reassure you that I have had to push the babies back in also to get the pressure of them off the birth canal, so i could get that other leg. That did not do it. I really think maybe it was because those babies were pretty big for mom, and that just happened.

Yes it is so hard to lose a goat, but at least she was able to help you save those adorable babies. 

I know your neighbor feels really bad that this happened.


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## Gumtree (Aug 15, 2009)

only just saw this...and just wanted to say that i am feeling for you...losing your doe it's hard... :hug: 
and it hard having a broken wrist.... :hug: 
i had broken rib n ruptured spleen recently (from a horse kick )
so i know what it like....glad you got too healthy kids


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## crowe (Dec 14, 2009)

I am so happy 4 you.
I know how you feel, I'm waiting on my first kids born here also. My Olympia is due Jan.25th. 
I am doing the same things, checking her udder etc..etc..

Your goats are very nice, I love buttin'heads lines.
My new herdsire is Buttin'Heads MoH Rising Son, grandson, His sire is Buttin'Heads Kiwi Sunrise.
So I named my buckling Kiwi Rising, after his sire & grandsire.

Happy 4 you in North Carolina


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## crowe (Dec 14, 2009)

I somehow posted to the wrong spot.. sorry


crowe said:


> I am so happy 4 you.
> I know how you feel, I'm waiting on my first kids born here also. My Olympia is due Jan.25th.
> I am doing the same things, checking her udder etc..etc..
> 
> ...


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