# 3 month old pygmy possibly bred? HEEELLLLLPPPPP



## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

So, my little 3 month old female got in her dads side of the pen and he was mounting her. She's done this twice now within thirty minutes so I fixed the gate where she can't get in. But what do I do of she gets pregnant? Her tail was wet also.
HEEELLLLLPPPPP


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Oops again? I remember the post concerning giving lute to the doe, mother of this kid?, because of an accidental breeding. How is that doe doing? Did she get bred at a later date, or did you decide not to give lute to her? 

I counted the weeks since March 16, the birthday of the kid, and it came to 12 weeks old as of yesterday (Saturday). I honestly don't know what to advise to terminate a possible pregnancy with such a young weanling aged animal. Possibly, the same as what was advised for her mom a couple of months ago. 

Is keeping an intact buck really something you want to do?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I wait 30 days then blood test her to confirm if she is indeed bred. Just because he mounted doesn't mean she took. If test is positive, I would lute her.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This is way too young. You don't want to try to support this pregnancy and the sooner it is ended the easier it will be on her.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

Yes, oops again..  

I did give mom lute, but cecil is a determined buck and got on her side again yesterday. If i keep too separated then I'll be up all night listening to Cecil SCREAM his head off. Plus we might be moving soon, so making adjustments to the pen right now isnt really an option. I do want Cecil fixed, but things have been hectic around here lately, so I haven't been able to get it done.. and yes, i agree that it's way too young. I'm scared and feel like I'm failing as a goat mom.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

Also, Ethel and the babies are doing amazing! They're just little rascals.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Mishyla Gregory said:


> If i keep too separated then I'll be up all night listening to Cecil SCREAM his head off.


Yep, that's what's gonna have to happen. Ear plugs are a good option, better than breeding 3 month olds.


Mishyla Gregory said:


> I do want Cecil fixed, but things have been hectic around here lately, so I haven't been able to get it done.


I encourage you to prioritize this action.


Mishyla Gregory said:


> i agree that it's way too young.


Then get some lute and give it after 12-14 days after the breeding you saw, so that she has as little damage as possible.


Mishyla Gregory said:


> I'm scared and feel like I'm failing as a goat mom.


We can help you know what needs done, and support you emotionally as you get it done. but we can't make the needed changes long distance. We are here for your knowledge and for your goats' needs. Good luck. I mean that.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Keeping an intact Cecil from breeding means he will need to be penned and housed with another male goat for companionship. Preferably without a shared fence line next to any does. Since making change adjustments to the pen isn't an option, he has free will to bred at every opportunity. He has shown you how possible it is to get the deed done.

Maybe try to take a block of time out of a hectic schedule to get Cecil castrated if you truly don't want to use him for breeding. He has bred the recently birthed doe twice, and now possibly bred a weanling. Is this kid his daughter by any chance. Yes, he is like any other buck, determined. And unfortunately successful.

Would rehoming Cecil be an option worth considering? No more accidental breedings. No more listening to his screaming from being separated. No more need to add another male goat to your herd to keep him company. Depending on the sex of Ethels other kid (she had 2, correct?) an additional pen may not be needed. No having to schedule a castration visit and depending on the method used; none of the worry over the potential adjustments required after the procedure.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Mishyla Gregory said:


> Yes, oops again..
> 
> I did give mom lute, but cecil is a determined buck and got on her side again yesterday. If i keep too separated then I'll be up all night listening to Cecil SCREAM his head off. Plus we might be moving soon, so making adjustments to the pen right now isnt really an option. I do want Cecil fixed, but things have been hectic around here lately, so I haven't been able to get it done.. and yes, i agree that it's way too young. I'm scared and feel like I'm failing as a goat mom.


Can you not get a buck apron for him to wear all the time? They are fairly inexpensive for the problems you seem to be having. At least there would be an amount of protection from this keepin happenin. Keep it on him all the time.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Those aprons work very well, I used one on my jr buckling and it kept him from breeding the girls. However, they still mount the does and are annoying.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

I have him back over in his pen he is used to. He can see the girls, but also keep away from them. Yes, Ethel had twin girls. I think Adaline was wanting some peaches that fell in his side and she is clearly small enough to have gotten through the gap. Which is fixed now! We are in the process of saving up for a house and putting in an offer, so money has been TIGHT. The lute shot is only 16 bucks here, so I can afford that no problem. I think it's best to ask my breeder if Cecil can stay with him for a while, because it's not cheap to get a buck fixed at the vet here. I thank you all soooooooo so so so much for being here for me and my oops's. Yall help me keep them from being a million times worse, and are helping me keep possible future problems at bay. I adore my friends on here, thank you a million times over and over again.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No, they don't work very well. Aprons do not stop the drive to mount. Do we not understand how awful that is for a female? In the wild, the bucks don't live with the females year round. Think about what that would mean, for a man to be demanding sex ALL the time, no matter what. Does that encourage health?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

mariarose said:


> No, they don't work very well. Aprons do not stop the drive to mount. Do we not understand how awful that is for a female? In the wild, the bucks don't live with the females year round. Think about what that would mean, for a man to be demanding sex ALL the time, no matter what. Does that encourage health?


So true! And i didnt mean so he could live in with the does by askin about an apron... guess i should have been a bit more clear on my meanin. . Just for when they manage to get in the same pen she would not have fret so much over this.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sorry. I've been at the hospital all day. I guess I got a little hot and mean. Aprons do not decrease the drive to mate, they do increase the buck's frustration. This abuse is a real thing.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Asking the breeder to house Cecil seems like a good idea for a while. Once he comes back home, a separate housing area and a male companion for him would still be needed. Curious though, (prices are varied depending on where you live) compare the purchase cost of a male companion, the extra cost of feed and maintenance for another goat versus the cost of a castration procedure.

If, you truly want to keep Cecil for breeding purposes, please realize there are certain responsibilities to owning a buck. Under the topic Bucks, are several threads worth reading through dedicated to buck ownership that could be helpful and informative.

Lute may be affordable cost wise, though the effects on a doe receiving the lute is very dramatic and hard on them. They are being forced to start labor contractions and deliver an underdeveloped fetus. Almost like receiving a livestock version of an abortion. Then they come back into heat shortly afterwards. Hormones are bound to be thrown all out of whack. Relying on lute for birth control seems drastic and something that possibly shouldn't be done on a regular basis as a type of "morning after" solution. 

I am by no means an authority or experienced on using lute, owing bucks, and having a hormonal and/or pregnant doe. I have an all wether (fixed male) herd which has responsibilities and requirements of their own and tailored around those needs. I decided long before purchasing my herd, breeding does and/or buck ownership was more demanding, stressful, over twice as expensive for the infrastructure and at times more complicated when it came to meeting those needs and requirements than I wanted to dive into. Sure seeing kids bounding around is heartwarming and very cute, maybe selling a few kids here and there could bring in extra money, fresh milk daily would be nice, and so on. A kidding stall, weaning pen, creep feeding area, separate pastures just for for the males, the housing requirements needed for those separated areas... the list goes on. I wanted goats primarily for brush control, and deliberated the different requirements in advance. 

The reasons for owning goats is an individual decision and varies from person to person. What are the reasons you ventured into owning goats and what are your expectations, goals for your herd?

Good luck with saving for and purchasing a home.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Asking the breeder to house Cecil seems like a good idea for a while. Once he comes back home, a separate housing area and a male companion for him would still be needed. Curious though, (prices are varied depending on where you live) compare the purchase cost of a male companion, the extra cost of feed and maintenance for another goat versus the cost of a castration procedure.
> 
> If, you truly want to keep Cecil for breeding purposes, please realize there are certain responsibilities to owning a buck. Under the topic Bucks, are several threads worth reading through dedicated to buck ownership that could be helpful and informative.
> 
> ...


Goats are A LOT MORE work than I ever thought they would be, and that's because I didn't do my research when I got them. What started my herd was a baby goat video and a couple months later my husband got me my 2 babies, Ethel and Cletus. My sweet Cleet Cleet died a couple months later due to bladder stones AFTER his surgery. I was absolutely devastated beyond expression. The whole point in my babies is for pets and pets only. I knew she would end up pregnant because we never got Cecil (new buck) fixed and that's what I wanted. Just one or 2 babies and then I want to be done. The offer on the house has fell through due to a cash offer, so now I can focus on cecil more. I'm calling my vet tomorrow to get a full price and schedule an appointment. I don't want my girls being over bred, and I don't want them for money, I just wanted them for companionship. After all, these are my BABIES!!!! And i want what's best for them. <3


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Sorry the new house deal fell through.
Cecil getting a new higher pitched singing voice. That will be good for the girls.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Goats can be a lot of work at times. I hear what you are saying about wanting a few kids, they are fun, cute and pleasant to be around. I have really fond memories of the antics mine let me bear witness to. 

Once Cecil recovers from having his baby maker adjusted, it truly will be less work and lots less to worry about. You'll see. Getting him fixed is a wise and responsible decision. (thumbup) 

Let me know how things go with him at the vet. I took 2 of mine to the vet for castration, 1 of them came to me already banded. If you have any questions or concerns before hand, would be more than willing to answer the best I can. 

Sorry things didn't work out with the house, something will come along later down the road.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Just throwing this out there: not all bucks are complete jerks. Mine wears an apron to be with the does most of the time. I am comfortable with this so far because he only bugs the does if they are in heat. They are all mature does, though, who LOVE him while they are in heat, so it’s not abusive for him to mount with an apron when they are BEGGING for attention. If he ever starts bugging them out of heat, he will lose the privilege of being in the tiny pasture with them.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

In this herd are 1 mature doe with kids: (2 weanling aged doelings) and 1 buck. The 2 younger weanling age doelings, 1 potentially accidentally bred, are his Daughters. The mature doe was given lute due to an accidental breeding shortly after birth, then accidentally some few weeks later was bred again. Whether or not Cecil the buck is a jerk isn't as much of an issue compared to 3 accidental breedings and possibly the risk of an accidental breeding of the other weanling aged doeling daughter in the near future.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Are the does separated from the buck?
How are they getting re-bred?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

First series of thread "My buck got in my does pen while I was at work" posted in March 2019. This is the second series concerning the Buck named Cecil and his reproductive capabilities. Mishyla Gregory is the OP.



toth boer goats said:


> Are the does separated from the buck?
> How are they getting re-bred?


Ms Gregory has plans to take the Buck to the vet for sterilization and gave the impression towards lute for both the doeling and 2nd round for the doe.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The buck still has to stay separated from the does for 30 days after castration. It takes time for the already loaded sperm to die off.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:up:


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@Mishyla Gregory just checking in to see how things have been going with your herd. How has the weanling and doe been doing since their recent administration of lute? What about Cecil, did he have the sterilization procedure taken care of and how is he handling the recovery? Would it be possible to give us an update?


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> @Mishyla Gregory just checking in to see how things have been going with your herd. How has the weanling and doe been doing since their recent administration of lute? What about Cecil, did he have the sterilization procedure taken care of and how is he handling the recovery? Would it be possible to give us an update?


Hey! Sorry, things have been insane around here. :/
Buuuuuttttttttt, YES! I got cecil castrated! He is still separate from the girls until the middle of next month, has been taking his medicine well, and is doing fantastic! Adaline is great, and so is her sister and momma! They've been munching on some apples from our tree every couple days when I cut them up for them. I take the seeds out because I read that will hurt them. Thank you all soooo much again.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

And also, I only luted Adaline, not Caroline and mom.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Ow, what a thread! I feel exhausted! Have seen the torture when a too young goat tries to deliver.

Now, please, what is that lute you talk about? How certain is it?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Mishyla, this is such good news! Things will be less stressful around your place without having to worry about Cecil continually breeding your girls. Thank you, you did the responsible thing with Cecil considering the situation. I am proud of you.
:goodjob: 
So, there will be more kids around October or so? Will you keep us updated in the kidding koral, waiting room and/or birth announcements forums about your mama to be?

If you have questions, run into any problems or anything, just ask.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Ow, what a thread! I feel exhausted! Have seen the torture when a too young goat tries to deliver.
> 
> Now, please, what is that lute you talk about? How certain is it?


Lutalyse (lute) is a prostaglandin that causes the uterine lining to shed. It will cause abortion early in the pregnancy with livestock (11-14 days after conception). It is also used to induce a heat cycle for breeding purposes. Yes, the weanling will enter another heat cycle due to being given lute. Hopefully Cecil will have no more sperm remaining by then and can't impregnate her again.


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## Mishyla Gregory (May 26, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Mishyla, this is such good news! Things will be less stressful around your place without having to worry about Cecil continually breeding your girls. Thank you, you did the responsible thing with Cecil considering the situation. I am proud of you.
> :goodjob:
> So, there will be more kids around October or so? Will you keep us updated in the kidding koral, waiting room and/or birth announcements forums about your mama to be?
> 
> If you have questions, run into any problems or anything, just ask.


Thank yall for all the help! Even though it should have been common sense in my end, things have just been crazy around here. And I'm not entirely sure if momma is pregnant. Her udder is smaller than what it was when she was pregnant with the girls, so it's hard to tell. For me at least..


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I don't think you could tell just by looking this soon. Not entirely sure though, I don't have any does. One thing certain, time will tell. You could count the days beginning the day Cecil paid her a visit.

145-150 days later (145 pygmy) would be her due date. October off top of my head sounds right. Maybe she is, maybe not..... Having a due date just in case is a good thing.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Lutalyse (lute) is a prostaglandin that causes the uterine lining to shed. It will cause abortion early in the pregnancy with livestock (11-14 days after conception). It is also used to induce a heat cycle for breeding purposes. Yes, the weanling will enter another heat cycle due to being given lute. Hopefully Cecil will have no more sperm remaining by then and can't impregnate her again.


Aha, thanks! I think we have it here too, but under another name.


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## Kelly-Mae Clampett (Jun 20, 2019)

singinggoatgirl said:


> Just throwing this out there: not all bucks are complete jerks. Mine wears an apron to be with the does most of the time. I am comfortable with this so far because he only bugs the does if they are in heat. They are all mature does, though, who LOVE him while they are in heat, so it's not abusive for him to mount with an apron when they are BEGGING for attention. If he ever starts bugging them out of heat, he will lose the privilege of being in the tiny pasture with them.


So, I am New to goats...and I recently bought the buck who was bred with my doe, prior to purchasing her, as I wanted a goat from the same place, as previous owner free range hers and I do as well, and my goat became very lonely...she was supposed to be due end of June. She offered me the buck. My female hasn't convinced me that she is pregnant, and now he is mounting her. I am a bit anxious. What to do? He definitely is meek and submissive. But none the less...November seems vet inopportune in northern Michigan for kidding. Oi!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

welcome you too, @Kelly-Mae Clampett ! Do not worry for the off-time kidding, that will be okay, since you take well care of your goats.

As for billy behaviour, I have mainly seen _bucklings_ be too eager for the comfort of does. Not grown-up bucks. When they get interested, it is usually serious! And most does know very well whom she prefers ...

Important, though, to keep control over "goat maths"! I strongly prefer aprons before most other methods.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You either need to separate or get a buck apron.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> You either need to separate or get a buck apron.


Yupp, and now I shall try to spell correctly: Member @_junipurr_ sells them.


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## Kelly-Mae Clampett (Jun 20, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> You either need to separate or get a buck apron.


I will look into getting an apron...thank youa


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## Krystal olsen (Jan 28, 2019)

I am in the same boat kind of...... My doeling (born 2/3/19) was introduced to a herd of bucks about 2 months back because my bucks broke their gate down and got in with all the does! Then on the 18th of this month my big boy broke down his gate and got in with all my does! Then on the 21st of this month my doeling found a new hole (not sure from what) and made it in with my whole herd of bucks! They are so determined!!!! I have fixed fence lines and fastened so much!!! Nothing seems to stop them!!! My vet keeps telling me she is too young and won't test her! I may need to find a new vet!!!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Not test because too young????? I say, test BECAUSE she is too young!!!! Not so good to use that medicine just in case...


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## Krystal olsen (Jan 28, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> Not test because too young????? I say, test BECAUSE she is too young!!!! Not so good to use that medicine just in case...


I am going to be taking her into my trusted vet for 8 years now!!!! I usually have my traveling vet check out my herd but if it's just one I can bring her in!!!!!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

This is one of the great advantages with goats rather than horses and cows! If needed, you just open the back door of your car, and off you go. GOOD LUCK!


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## Krystal olsen (Jan 28, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> This is one of the great advantages with goats rather than horses and cows! If needed, you just open the back door of your car, and off you go. GOOD LUCK!


Hahahahaha...... Yes that's what I do when I just need a couple checked!!!! But when it's the whole herd, I don't have a trailer right now!!!!!


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