# Help! Week old kid foaming at mouth and seizing



## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Help please! I have a one week old kid that is foaming at the mouth and seems to be seizing. She is not eating hay yet really and was fine an hour ago. Help!


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Her belly feels really full and is kind of grumbling also. Seizing may not be the right description either. She just keeps having massive twitches. I don't know how to explain it better. Doesn't seem to have a fever.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

Try Heimlich quick she might be choking on something.


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

She is breathing, but really rapidly. I felt for anything stuck in her throat and didn't feel anything. Her heart rate is up too. She can't stand up and is still twitching/seizing. She does seem to be completely alert. Not foaming anymore.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

It could also be frothy bloat. Other than drenching with baking soda and massaging her stomach I don't know what else to do maybe someone else can come in and help.


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for the thoughts! Is frothy bloat possible in a kid so young?


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Well, she is dead. I have no idea what happened. Wish I had some clue. Thanks for the ideas.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I have seen two week old kids bloat and die so I guess its possible with a one week old. Sorry you lost her. Wish there was something we could have done to help.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh...I am so sorry!!!


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

I would really appreciate any ideas on what caused this. She went from just fine and playing to dead in less than 90 minutes. All of my other goats are doing well as is the LGD that is with them. However, I did have a 15 week old puppy pass yesterday. Her symptoms were different, but I am afraid someone is poisoning my animals or something. Does this sound like a poisoning? Thanks.


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Oh, and thanks for the condolences.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

Certain poisons can cause those symptoms. I would get an autopsy done on the kid so you can know for sure.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

xymenah said:


> Certain poisons can cause those symptoms. I would get an autopsy done on the kid so you can know for sure.


I agree. sorry you lost her :hug:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm so sorry you lost her :hug: :hug: ... I agree an autopsy is a good idea.... I'd try contacting a local state vet lab... I think they can be relatively cheap...
M.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:hug: Sorry for your loss. Is there any plants that she could have gotten into that are toxic. It does sound like possible toxcisity but at 1 week old I am suprised they could eat enough of anything to cause a toxic effect. I also would suggest a Necropsy thru your vet of WADDL or state lab to determine cause and hopefully prevent it from happening to any others.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the others ...and another thing that may of happened is... the baby may of gotten slammed really hard by a big goat.... It may of been in the head....and/ or the stomach.... or thrown really hard into a wall....  

I am so sorry....  :hug:


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss. I agree with everyone on having lab work ran to find out the cause before anything else happens. At a week old you would not expect certain things but I did have a kid around 2 weeks old choke on grain. 

Just to give you an idea what choke can look like from my experience. I walked in the house for about one minute and when I walked back out my buckling was shaking his head foaming at the mouth and let out a cry that was not normal. Head tossing can help them dislodge the item that they are choking on, but grab them and massage the neck to try to help break up the item. You can then stick your finger in for a finger sweep. My little guy had got the item worked down and out to where he could breathe but it was still fast breathing. At this point we took warm water you can syringe or bottle feed it and massage neck to be sure to finish breaking up the item that they choked on. If they make it thru the choke give them a dose of Pen G. 

I am not sure what was the cause of your little one but hope you do not have any more cases. If you have a state lab check with them or if your in a state with a vet school you can check with them as well. I know Kord Lab in Tennessee is an outstanding lab and out of state individuals can submit to them as well. I know certain prices are different for out of state compared to in state. Their number is 615-837-5125 and I think Dr. McKinley is still the director. Hope this helps.


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## Bayouslug (Mar 22, 2012)

This is so sad ! How horrible to feel so helpless ! My condolence for your loss! ray:


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for your ideas and condolences! 
In my shock and horror, I immediately took the baby a couple of miles from home and buried her, in fear it was something horrible and contagious. So an autopsy is not possible. I am almost certain that she was not choking. My first thought was that and so I massaged her neck really well and did actually put a finger down there to make sure she was clear. I am thinking that either she was hit hard and it busted something internally or perhaps a violent allergic reaction to something. I have seen bees coming out a bit lately and while unlikely, a sever allergic reaction to a bee sting may have done it.
Thanks again for the thoughts and encouragement. Hopefully there won't be a next time. Have a great day.


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## crgoats (Nov 8, 2011)

Hmmmm, I just had a two day old buck die last week, and he was foaming at the mouth and his head was wobbly. I know he was not hit, as they were still in the birthing stall. We do have some wasps in our barn, and I had not even thought of that. He died so fast, and I kind of thought it was fluid in his lungs, but now you have me thinking.


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that you lost a baby too, crgoats, but your story makes me think my idea is even more possible. I guess maybe goats are prone to allergic reactions to bees. That is definitely good to keep in mind. Thanks for sharing your story. Hopefully neither of us will have to go through this again!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I never thought about goats having that bad of reactions to bee or wasp stings. In that case does anyone know if goats can take any type of Epinephrine or Dex? I know I use to show a horse for a lady that we had to keep Epip on hand because he had very bad allergies. Did you guys hear about the African Bees in the States? I know they came across some here locally in East TN. 

crgoats: I am sorry for your loss.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

DDFN, I just talked to a woman that has been running a herd of about 300 for over 30 years and she said that she always keeps Epi on hand for her goats. She told me that the suggested dose is 1cc per 100lbs. Just thought I would share that. She also said that she thinks it definitely could have been an allergic reaction.


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

Wow, this is so sad. I'm very sorry. At the emergency animal clinic we treat allergic reactions with injectable diphenhydramine and dex. This combination will usually clear hives and facial swelling in about 15-30 minutes. Epi is short acting and causes increased heart rate and blood pressure I would only use it as a last resort like when the tongue and/or airway are swollen. Did you notice any facial swelling, hives or swelling of the tongue? The twitching all over sounds a bit like slug bait toxicity. Was the kid staggering? Do you have slug bait around?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am so sorry about your little girl , what came to my mind first was decone, Do you have anything like this out for mice?


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## crgoats (Nov 8, 2011)

Please keep us up to date on anything you figure out. I have a new buck born yesterday, and I have wasp traps out in the barn now, but it is colder, so they have gone away. I am so paranoid now, though.


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## comingsummers (May 6, 2010)

Sorry I didn't respond to the questions guys, I have been incredibly busy the last few days. I don't have any poisons on my land. Slugs aren't an issue around here and I try to be as close to organic as possible on my farm anyway. I also just have a few cats for the mouse problems. I really can't figure anything beyond a sting... I was pretty shocked by the whole scenario and I really can't say whether she was swollen or not. She may have been. I do think that her throat may have been swollen, but I really can't say for sure. Thanks for the support!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I am very sorry for your loss. :hug:


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so sorry. This is very sad.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

comingsummers said:


> DDFN, I just talked to a woman that has been running a herd of about 300 for over 30 years and she said that she always keeps Epi on hand for her goats. She told me that the suggested dose is 1cc per 100lbs. Just thought I would share that. She also said that she thinks it definitely could have been an allergic reaction.


Thank you for letting me know that. It would be something to keep on hand for ER cases. Sounds like your little one was probably a wasp or bee sting. It is still so sad.

Winky: Do you know the goat dex dose? I always keep dex on hand for my horses, but have never used any on goats. Mine is the 2mg dex. Also did they ever come up with a withdrawal time for it?


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## Allisonrenee (Mar 1, 2019)

comingsummers said:


> Help please! I have a one week old kid that is foaming at the mouth and seems to be seizing. She is not eating hay yet really and was fine an hour ago. Help!


I know this is a very old case but if you never found out what was wrong here's what it was, Polioencephalomalacia also know as goat polio or (PEM), it's not related at all to the infectious human disease. I've had a few cases of this and have had absolutely no idea what it was but did a lot of research on it, and is basically just a nutritional disorder in sheep and goats. The main cause of PEM is thiamine deficiency. Thiamine is a B vitamin (vitamin B1) that plays a critical role in all cells, acting as a cofactor for several key enzymes involved in glucose metabolism. Another cause of PEM is excessive sulfur intake from sources including water, feed ingredients and forage. (My well water has a very large amount of sulfur and cases of PEM have only occurred in two of our bottle babies) One more cause could by by amprolium therapy for coccidiosis. Amprolium effectively competes with thiamine for uptake into the brain which therefore can induce PEM. Symptoms are very similar to yours, Blindness,loss of body control, inability to stand, and seizures.(Blindness is a very early symptom but I had no idea about the disease or to why my kid was going bind in one eye). If caught early enough thiamine therapy is relatively benign, so it is best to treat with thiamine as a precaution. Hopefully your local vet has something to help with that. Animals occasionally respond rapidly to the initial dose, although slow recovery to standing may take up to 5 days with full recovery evident after 2-3 weeks. I hope this helps anybody who has this prosblem and I'm sorry for your loss, it's very sad I am currently dealing with a 6 day old kid with PEM hopefully he will pull through.


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## Sophie123 (Feb 18, 2019)

So sorry about your little goat kid. Never had anything like that happen, so no advice


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Might be OT, but, welcome, Allisonrenee!


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