# Uncooperative Nigerian Dwarf Doe



## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

Hi Everyone,

I am a first time miker with goats and I have one Nigerian Dwarf doe that I am trying to milk. She is VERY uncooperative! When I have her in the milk stand and go anywhere near her teats, she will start to kick and buck and will even sit down so you can't get at the teats. 

I milked her for the first time this morning and it was the perverbial "Goat Rodeo" trying to get anything out of her. Because she trys to sit when I milk, I used a cinch strap from one of my mini horses and used it as a suspension belt so I could try to keep her back end off the stand. I was able to get about a cup of milk out before she wound up stepping in it which then ruined it!!!!

I know her teats are good (no mastitis) because she lets the kids nurse and the milk that I stripped out was nice and white and free of clumps or blood. My doe also acts like this when I trim her feet. She basically hates to be touched and bothered with.

Any suggestions? I did order a Goat Hobble from Jeffers and I may just wait to re-try until I get the Hobble. I have to say, if it going to be like this, I may have to re-think this hobby.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

A Goat Hobble is a "must have" for any first time milker. 
I had one that I that I had to hobble, and then tie a rope from the hobble to a leg of the milk stand. I also put a pan under her stomach so she couldn't sit down. 

I have a friend that drilled a hole on a slant in her milk stand, and she put a piece of PVC pipe that sticks up that goes in between the legs and the hobble. I hope I'm explaining it well, so you can understand the concept.
The goat can't move backwards, forward, sideways, or even sit down, or it will be poked in the butt by the PVC pipe.

She can train a FF on the milk stand faster than anyone with this method. It takes the fight right out of them.

Don't get discouraged. They are all awful the first time. The fastest way to train them is to win.


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks for the encouragement. The PVC pipe sounds like a good idea. I think I'll try to engineer something like that so she can't sit down. 

The only way I was able to get the milk out that I did was I had to lift her butt up by holding her tail then milking the teat with the other. All for 1 cup of milk that she eventually stepped in.

Once I get the hobble, we'll try again.

Thanks!


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

My 2F is the same way. I have to put a rope around her belly and throw it over the top of my gate. ( it's a horse panel gate so the tip is really high.) I then have to put a rope on her leg, run it under the stand and tie it to the other leg. I then use a human baby bottle to milk into then dump into my stainless bucket that is far from her. I use the human bottle to feed kids and I'm not consuming the milk so I'm not worried about it. I do this so that If something happens I only loose what's in the bottle instead of my entire bucket of milk. I feel bad doing all this but it has to be done.


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

Been there too! My first milking doe was a dream, but my 2nd caught me by surprise, she behaved exactly as you describe. 

The first day I had my sister hold one back leg up while I held the other and milked with my free hand (most went everywhere but in the bucket). I remember thinking how on earth I could continue like that, and in fact I came here for advice. Fortunately I got a lot of reassurance and the very best advice, which was to NOT let her win!

Day two was a little better, we only had to hold one leg up, actually got a bit of milk in the bucket. She glared back at me the whole time.

Day three went surprisingly well, didn't have to hold her leg though she did dance a little but I kept my business hat on and just did my job. She actually ate a bit of grain.

Day 4 was like we were old friends. She ate, I milked, all good. 

Don't give up...you're probably only a couple of days away from easy street lol!


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

You can do the upside down bucket trick for the sitting down thing. Also if you just apply a little pressure right above the tail, just kinda pinch, they'll stand right up. It's a test of wills. 
The first time I milked Rosie I swear she tap danced and sat on my head. I got all of 1/4 cup out of it. It was comical. Just keep trying and try to keep it as relaxed and pleasant for the goat as possible without allowing her to win the argument. Now I rarely have trouble with her. I'm a total newbie and just started with goats in November 2014. I did go to a Dansha milker for a while and she seemed to prefer that. Lately she'll let me milk her and it's quicker by hand.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Our Nigerian was a nightmare her first year. It took 2 of us to milk her! They are small, but they are strong, bull-headed, and determined little brats! YOu can try finding a bucket the right size to put upsidedown underneath her to keep her from laying down. Then hobble her back legs. DO praise her whenever you get even 10 seconds of good behavior!

Now the good news: We were going to cull her if she acted that way the second time 'round. But her second year she was a dream! We (and by "we" I mean my very patient and persistent daughters) handled her udder every single day and give her treats when she stands still - a plus for milking and for showing. If you've ever seen a Nigerian leap away from a judge who dared to touch her udder, then you know what I'm saying here!) Anyhoo, her second year she was MUCH better! And I expect her to be fabulous on the stand this year.

So hang in there. Be patient. Be persistent. Give treats. Use tools to prevent naughtiness. And make her let you touch her without being a little butthead. ;-)

She WILL improve!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I had one I had to hobble and tie to the stand, and another that would lay down. I put a homer bucket sideways under her belly. Only took a few days to a week to get them on track 

Good luck!

PS why are Nigerians the worst? ;p


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## justamerefarm (Sep 2, 2014)

Too funny, I'm still laughing at all the comments. I have two ngs 2nd fresheners. Both are a pain to milk. This am I managed to get two cups out of Josie, which she promptly kicked out of my hand and waisted it all. The hobbles I have are for my Nubian and are too big to hold the ngs. They have lots of milk, I just can't get it from them, lol


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I have a naughty milker. I put two eye bolts on either side of the back feet area of my milking stand. I'll try to get a photo. I then made a "noose knot" (not sure what it's called) and put her feet it in for milking. Problem solved.


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

I just got my goat hobble in the mail yesterday and I'm going to try again on Saturday morning. At least this time I'll have my wife helping out in case this goes south again.

Thanks for all the encouragement and ideas. We're going to get this figured out!


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

My little nigerians hate to be hand milked. Hubby converted a Babson surge milker for me and they don't mind that at all. Clean up is pretty easy so no hand milking here. If anyone wants to see how it works I have it on my webpage. Windingrvrfarm.com


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I use a surge milker on my NDs too. I tried to hand milk one this morning...Gaaaah!!! It was nearly impossible! And she behaved fine - it's just the small teats! 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

wndngrvr said:


> My little nigerians hate to be hand milked. Hubby converted a Babson surge milker for me and they don't mind that at all. Clean up is pretty easy so no hand milking here. If anyone wants to see how it works I have it on my webpage. Windingrvrfarm.com


I went to your website. I LOVE your milking set up! I've joked about using a trailer for a barn or milk room. You've proven it would actually be ideal! And how clever of your hubby to convert the milker for you. I may end up going that route in a few years.


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

Here's an update on my second milking attempt using the Goat Hobble.....It went just as bad as the first attempt!. She wound up kicking over the container after about a cup, even with the hobble and a bucket under her belly. Very frustrating!!!

I'm going to start putting her in the stand now every time I feed her, both morning and night. I'll feed her the grain and while she eats, I'm going to mess with her udder and teats. Hopefully she'll eventually not care anymore. I'm going to break her of this one way or another. She isn't going to win!!

One other thing, I think I'm going to purchase a hand vacuum milker from Dansha Farms (_www.*danshafarms*.com_). It looks like this will do the trick. Does anyone have any experience using this or something similar to this?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I have that milker and I like it. Though with cleanup, etc it takes a lot longer.

Here is my prototype, I don't have a pic of the actual one. I used a bit thicker rope. This was just to see if an eyebolt on each side would even work. And it did, really really well.


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

Dayna, That's the other thing I'm going to do. I'm going to put an eye bolt on each side of the milk stand and tie her legs to them. Hopefully that will help subdue her.

Between the suspending belly harness and eye bolt restraints, my milk stand is going to start looking like some sort of bondage device!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

ValkyrieWindsFarm said:


> Dayna, That's the other thing I'm going to do. I'm going to put an eye bolt on each side of the milk stand and tie her legs to them. Hopefully that will help subdue her.
> 
> Between the suspending belly harness and eye bolt restraints, my milk stand is going to start looking like some sort of bondage device!


she will learn.  I only had to tie down Clouds feet a couple times. Now she mostly stands still and if she starts kicking, I just put her feet in the noose and she starts behaving immediately. Worked better than anything else I've ever done.


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## justamerefarm (Sep 2, 2014)

To Valkyrie Winds Farm. Is there just one size hobble? I have a hobble for my Nubian but when I tried it on my ngs they kick right out of it! I'm going to try the eye bolt thing on the stanchion and see if that works. Also tried the easy milker hand pump and mason jar, worked great for my Nubian but not at all for the ngs. Is there two sizes for the part you put on the teat? Do you know?


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I have a Velcro hobble so it's pretty adjustable. I have the Mike's milker but Its similar to dansha. There's a rubber insert to make the teat cup smaller


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

I have the Dansha farms milker. It works well. I had to start off with it because my does wouldn't let me milk otherwise. Now they and I prefer hand milking. It took a few months. With NDs I use a 35ml teat cup, not the 60ml one that comes with it.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I watched someone milk with little "cable clips" tied to the milk stand. These clips come in a variety of sizes and are ratcheted to tighten down on a goat leg. You can find them at the big hardware stores


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

To Justamerefarm, I bought the Goat Hobble from Jeffers Pet Supply and it wound up being too big for my ND. She was able to slip out of it with out too much trouble. Supposedly there are smaller versions but I can't find them.

As far as the Danasha Milker goes, it comes in the standard teat cups (60 ml syringe) or small teat cups (35 ml syringe). I e-mailed Dan and told him I had Nigerian Dwarf does and he substituted the standard cups with the small ones. Hopefully that will do the trick.

I've been making pretty good progress this week getting my doe to calm down on the stand. Everyday now for the past 4 days, I've been putting her in the stand to eat her morning and evening grain. While she eats, I touch her udder and teats. I keep touching them until she stops bucking and acting crazy. Once she stops, I stop. I'll let her settle down for a few minutes then I'll go back to touching her again and repeat the process. It's got to the point now where I can touch her without too much ruckus. The way this is going, I may not need the eyebolts?

I'll try milking her again once I get the Danasha Milker. Hopefully by Saturday we'll be on our way to some fresh goat milk!


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## justamerefarm (Sep 2, 2014)

Lol this am, I managed to get about two cups each from my girls. The reason being, that I tried the easy milker hand pump on my Nubian(she is first to be milked) and it worked great. So now I have some strength left in my hands and fingers, for my ngs. I've been at this since January and it's finally getting easier. They are settling down very well and seem to have lots of milk. They are allowing me to milk them but still will try to slip the odd kick at the milk container. I think I will still get my husband to help me set up the eye bolt system, so I don't have to worry about spilled milk. In the end I think it comes down to perseverance, patience and determination, for you too. I still have to order the smaller milk cups and will do that asap. It would be great for my hands to be able to use it on my ngs.


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## afullacre (Mar 17, 2015)

Dayna said:


> I have that milker and I like it. Though with cleanup, etc it takes a lot longer.
> 
> Here is my prototype, I don't have a pic of the actual one. I used a bit thicker rope. This was just to see if an eyebolt on each side would even work. And it did, really really well.


I like this, I think we'll try it! You are on the big island right? We have some property over in Pahoa area


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

afullacre said:


> I like this, I think we'll try it! You are on the big island right? We have some property over in Pahoa area


I am! I live between Keaau and Pahoa in Orchidland.

Are you on or off Island?


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## EScherer20 (Jan 13, 2015)

I am glad I found this thread. I have two NDs that are due in June and I know already they are going to be a handful. They were bottle raised and handled a lot but now that they are preggo they don't want me anywhere near their udders. 
Is it too stressful to start training them on the stand? I am feeding them on it. This is the first time that they have had their heads locked. They don't panic but they do try to get out. If I don't lock one up she bites me when I touch even her sides. I would love to start tying their legs but don't want to stress them. Thoughts?
I am going to keep following this thread so please keep updating!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I wouldn't put them through any unnecessary stress during pregnancy. Putting them on the stand is good. Do what they will let you do, but save the training for until the kids arrive. 

I second the hobble, and also patience. Remember, technically, that milk is not for us and it's not natural for them to let anyone but their kids take it. Slow and steady does it. Eventually with the help of the hobbles, and lots of yummy milkstand treats, most goats learn this is an okay thing.  It can take awhile. Milkstand training is a trying time. :lol:


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## kc8lsk (Jan 10, 2014)

I just had my first doe that I had to hobble NOT fun for either her or me but within a week of being hobbled I no longer needed to hobble her. My hobble was tied above so that when she was hobbled her leg was off the milk stand which off balanced her and so she wouldn't kick with her other leg. My bottle babies are handled and trained on the milk stand from the word go as soon as they move out to the barn they learn to get on the milk stand and as soon as they are eating grain I start handling udders and doing hooves.


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## cdanna (Dec 17, 2012)

I feel your pain, when we first got our ND my bf had to wrestle her with his whole body to keep her from thrashing around while I attempted to milk her. It took us over an hour to milk her the first day!

It's gotten MUCH better, thanks to a good hobble and lots of patience and treats for her. (2 years later)

One thing that helped a lot was me *never* taking my hands off of her teats, no matter how much she kicked and thrashed and sat down on my hands. She eventually learned that once I start milking, my hands don't move, no matter what! And she stopped fighting as much.


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## ValkyrieWindsFarm (Mar 21, 2015)

I thought I'd post an update since my last post a couple of weeks ago: Milking has gotton much better. My doe Signy still doesn't like her udder touched but she lets me milk her without much fuss any more. 

Since my last post, I've been separating the kids from her at night and then I milk her at 5:30am before I go to work. I feed her in the milk stand while I milk so now she associates milking with eating. As soon as I open the door to her pen, she runs for the milk stand, jumps up and sticks her head right into the stock. It took about 3 days for her to get this routine down.

I'm using the Danasha milker, which makes milking pretty easy. I'm getting about a pint each morning. From what I've read this is about right for a first freshener? It takes me about 10 minutes from start to finish. I don't totally milk her out, I leave some for the kids. I do kind of worry about the suction without pulsation, but I rarely go over 8-10 mm/mg during the process so it's not like it's really aggressive.

The milk is delicious! I was kind of worried that it would be "goaty" tasting but it has a sweet, rich flavor which I think is coming from the alfalfa I've been supplementing her with. My first attempt at cheese making is coming up this weekend.

Like you've all said....Just stick with it. Eventually the doe will "get it" and everything starts to work out. Tomorrow I'm going to "fix" my two boys with a burdizzo so wish me luck, I'm already cringing!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I am very pleased with our EZ-milker. It makes it so much easier! And for some reason, the does prefer being milked via machine instead of by hand. I do start them off and finish them by hand but they are so good for the milker.


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