# Lead training the stubborn ones



## HoosierShadow

LOL I figure this could be a good place for everyone to share ideas, and ways to train the stubborn goats, or your progress, questions, etc. 

The kids have 1 wether that they are having problems with. Every time they walk him he acts like he is dying, and throws himself down, it's all just very pathetic really lol
I'm sure we'll end up having animal control called on us at some point because he screams like he is being choked to death  I followed today tapping his rump with a small broom brush and did no good. I pulled his tail a little and that only did good for one lap around the backyard.

This kid will be 10 weeks on Friday, he's a triplet and 44lbs.
I'm thinking part of the problem is he wants to go back to mama and his brothers. 

Tomorrow I thought we'd try to walk him with one of his brothers.

But, I'm thinking we may need to start weaning him? Also start putting him with the other 2 wethers that are for 4-H?


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## country_cool_kid

Well I'm in 4h showing and my goat would do that!!!!!! It just takes give and release get it to walk for you well for a couple steps and reward it!


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## HoosierShadow

We had success getting the young wether to walk yesterday. We used the feed bucket - all the babies KNOW that bucket lol It's pink LOL!!
Let him have a few bites, walked away while my daughter encouraged him to move forward on the lead, I'd stop let him have another bite, walk 15 steps let him have another bite, etc. etc. and this really perked him up. Soon, he we sprinted across the yard, him on the leash with my daughter following me lol
So...maybe I'll get a much needed workout too, haha.


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## GTAllen

I have been struggling for a little bit with a doeling. I have a 4 month old doeling and buckling. The buckling from day one acts like he has spent a year on the show circuit. I stop, he stops head up and ready!

The doeling acts like I am trying to kill her! She will try to sprint and comes up on her hind legs like a stallion. She balks and won't move. She screams so loud. I have pulled her around until my back hurts. I tap her with hog stick. I got a friend to push her from behind and use the tail. I am about to forget about this doeling and just show the buck.


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## Crossroads Boers

Hehe GT.  I'm in the same boat with ya. Some of our kids (including our best doeling thankfully!) were born to show well...they lead, stand and hold their heads up. And the others we might as well be killing in their opinions! I have a couple who sound just like your doe... 

I'm still experimenting on what works best to train them.... right now we are trying to work with our kids as often as we can. Sometimes we just stand still and mess with their legs and try to teach them to stand still. Other times we just try lead training. Other times it's stop and go.


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## Jessica84

That is a stuborn animal you have there. I dont show my goats but I do lead them to get their hoofs done, or move pens ect. For the most part most lead by the collar, some know whats coming so have been useing a rope halter that gets tight as you pull it, that works good, but then I have the ones that just lay down, and the tail pulling always does the trick. My 4 year old daughters job is to walk behind them and pull tails up when they lay down lol. I dont know, Im not saying beat the animal by any means but maybe if you just keep getting him up so so nicely when he does that he will get the point. But I think it still comes down to working with him more. Is he a friendly goat? Maybe he just has not looked at you guys as a 'friend' yet. Just some ideas, but again not really sure.


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## goatgirl132

Pull the tail not lightly but not hard 

And i brive like what your doing i do that to teach stubborn ones to brace


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## HoosierShadow

I'm sorry your having trouble with the doe GTAllen, I hope she improves. Do you walk her with other goats, maybe a buddy perhaps? ever tried putting the grain bucket in front of her, and get her to follow it? That's worked on a couple of times for us.

My oldest daughters wether is doing much better! Today I was busy in the barn, and the kids were walking them in the backyard, and he did really good, didn't need the feed. 

BUT...she's having trouble with her yearling doe. This doe has no respect for her, and I can NOT get my daughter to be firm with her. She is the type you have to show your the boss. Her nickname is 'psychogoat' lol
She walks on the lead and show collar so much better than she did last year. But when my daughter goes to set her up, she jumps sideways and tries to run around her.
When I come over there all I have to do is give her a firm tap on the shoulder, rump or nudge her with my knee and tell her STOP IT, and she stands just fine.
I told my daughter she needs to bully her a little, not to be mean, but to put it in this does mind that she is boss.
IMO she's an okay 4-H goat, but she is fat and short bodied lol
I told her if she doesn't stop I am going to find her a boyfriend and calm her butt down LOL


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## bambismom

Anyone ever use peanuts for treats for training? Unsalted peanuts in the shell, our goats love them! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depends on how stubborn they are. For kids that haven't had peanuts before we take the peanuts out of the shell for them.


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## Dani-1995

bambismom said:


> Anyone ever use peanuts for treats for training? Unsalted peanuts in the shell, our goats love them! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depends on how stubborn they are. For kids that haven't had peanuts before we take the peanuts out of the shell for them.


I've never used peanuts but I have used BOSS, animals crackers and othwer things like that. But nothing has worked as well as the leaves from our bradford pear tree. Past goats have chewed the lower limbs until they died but the rest of the tree is still going strong, just the goats can't reach them. But I can. So I'll grab a handful and let them get a taste for them and after that they will do anything for them... I mean anything!

I've got my wether trained to walk and all good at 3 months old in 3 days using those leaves, its like drugs for goats. I slowly weaned him off of them and now he walks good without them.


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## HoosierShadow

My son's little doe is acting up now. It's been awful the past few days  Not sure what is up with her, but she just throws herself down and refuses to do anything, you have to drag her back towards the barn. 
We've never ever EVER had one this stubborn! Usually a little tug on the tail, or a little tug on the ear, tap on the butt, or me walking behind them clapping my hands when they stop/making noise, or just letting them walk behind a buddy always works. Nothing works with this little girl.
She's a sweetie though, that's the shame of it. She has a bit of a break behind the shoulders and higher rump than I'd want in a show goat from what I've been learning, so now I'm starting to wonder if we'll have to have a back up plan especially if she doesn't start walking well. 
My son has a doe due in a little over a week so we'll see what she gives him, if she gives him a boy, then he can either sell this little girl and show his yearling, or give him the option of buying a nice young high percentage doe.

Nothing works with this gal, like GTAllen's doe. We'll give her a couple of days, and then start trying again.
It's just so discouraging, and I don't want people driving by or in ear range seeing and hearing her, it's embarrassing. She acts like your killing her


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## GTAllen

Sorry to hear about your doe. Mine has been coming along now. I have been giving her a rinse and blow dry daily when possible. She is getting a little better attitude about her now.


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## Dani-1995

We have a wether like that. He stand on his hind legs, spinning in circles while pawing at who ever is holding him. He jumps up in the air and falls over too so.I took the opportunity to hold him down for a few seconds, waited until he quit fighting and then let him up.... he hasn't acted up bad with me since. Unfortunately he isn't my goat so he doesn't have to cooperate with me... I feel bad for my sister. He won't do a thing for her at all! I think her second goat will have to be her showmanship goat because this one is terrible.


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## Crossroads Boers

We had lots of problems with stubborn kids last year. But have had lots of success this year.  I think what really helped this year was that we only worked with each kid on a lead for just a few minutes at a time. We made sure that they never got really upset and hated it. For the first week or two my sister and I just focused on getting them to stand still on a lead after having their legs set up. When they stood still even for just a couple seconds we would let them go, give them lots of pets, then move on to a different kid. After they were good with standing still, we worked on getting them to walk just a little a day. When ever they stopped fighting the lead even for just a couple seconds we would let them go etc. We have horses and a lot of the training that works for horses works for goats. For instance, one of the best training tools for horses (especially for starting young or green horses) is to do Pressure and Release. i.e. If you push, pull, or anything that puts pressure on any part of the body, and the horse responds and moves in the direction you were instructing you immediately release the pressure. Then after a couple seconds ask the same thing again. Eventually (usually after a couple days to a week) they respond immediately to the smallest bit of pressure. It take lots a patience but definitely pays off. 

Last year we were really going strong at working with the kids every day for like 30 minutes each and they always hated it and never really learned to walk or stand still well. But we noticed that the kids that we didn't work with on a lead that much walked and stood much better than the other ones. 

I hope this helps! Sorry for the book...


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## Dani-1995

That's what I do with my goats and nothing seems to work this little guy... its like he's possessed as soon you put a lead, halter or hand on him. Butbhe loves to be petted and scratched on his poll... go figure!!


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## HoosierShadow

This little doe was walking great. The kids only work with them on the halter/lead about 3-4 days a week. I don't know why she is acting like this. It did get warm, so we gave them a break and started working with them in the cooler part of the day, but that didn't work either. 
Like Dani's sisters wether, nothing works with her.

I'm afraid it'll stress her beyond mental repair if we keep trying to force her to walk. She throws herself around and was to the point this morning I had to hold her to the ground to get her to calm down. She was so worked up it was very upsetting. 
I'd rather sell her as a future breeding doe, or pet than put her through the stress, we want her to enjoy it, not fight it every step


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## HouseElfLamanchas

i've never used the peanuts in a shell for stubborn ones i never give them a treat until they understand what im trying to do lol. My Doe Dobby didnt understand what do do when i was halter training her but as soon as she got with the program i began giving her apples and oats haha. then she was like im on board. lol ill have to try peanuts one of these days


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## HoosierShadow

HouseElfLamanchas said:


> i've never used the peanuts in a shell for stubborn ones i never give them a treat until they understand what im trying to do lol. My Doe Dobby didnt understand what do do when i was halter training her but as soon as she got with the program i began giving her apples and oats haha. then she was like im on board. lol ill have to try peanuts one of these days


How we got my daughters wether walking was having him follow me with the feed bucket. It's distinguishable for sure - it's pink LOL
We'd stop and let him have a few bites, then move 10-15ft let him eat a few more bites, etc. and worked with him this way for a couple of days, after that he's been walking much more tolerable than those first days. He really tries to do what he's asked, but has a stubborn lazy streak he is trying to overcome, haha.


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## Dani-1995

I've tried food with this one... he's just stubborn. He's going to have to catch on because I cant sell him. I can lead him just fine by his head like a lamb... he does.ok on show collar for me. But he won't do a thing for my sister. Granted, I'm a bit stronger and maybe harder on the goats as far as making them behave well.


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## bambismom

Hoosiershadow, these are boer goats, right? Boer goats are incredibly stubborn. Sometimes they just won't lead. My son just got them to lead good enough to get through the show ring, but always used one of his dairy goats for showmanship. My older son brought a boer goat to the state fair the first year he went there and an older boy had to carry it into the barn for him (my son was only 12 at the time) I've seen this time and again, our boers do the same thing, act like you're killing them! The boer goat project has exploded in recent years at the state fair, most are well-behaved for you still find those stubborn ones.


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## bambismom

Dani-1995 said:


> I've never used peanuts but I have used BOSS, animals crackers and othwer things like that. But nothing has worked as well as the leaves from our bradford pear tree. Past goats have chewed the lower limbs until they died but the rest of the tree is still going strong, just the goats can't reach them. But I can. So I'll grab a handful and let them get a taste for them and after that they will do anything for them... I mean anything!
> 
> I've got my wether trained to walk and all good at 3 months old in 3 days using those leaves, its like drugs for goats. I slowly weaned him off of them and now he walks good without them.


I have always thought that the leaves from fruit bearing trees were poisonous to goats. This is what my husband and I have read. Obviously not pear trees?


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## Dani-1995

bambismom said:


> I have always thought that the leaves from fruit bearing trees were poisonous to goats. This is what my husband and I have read. Obviously not pear trees?


Not that I know of... I know cherry trees are and pitted fruit should be avoided because of chance of blockage. You may want to check on this to be sure but I think most are ok. I've never had a goat have any issues with this tree... quite the opposite actually. They love the leaves and some nibble at the pears but I get them up as they fall. I asked our livestock agent and he said they're fine and likely have something the goats need.


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## hscottom87

We had a stubborn one. Spent weeks using those sheep rope leads & halter w/ leads & we were getting no where. Stuck a show collar on her w/ spikes & it took 3 thirty minute sessions. Now she walks like a dream. This was advice from our 4h leader, to just start w/ the show spike collar. And it worked better than I imagined. People @ our first show commented on how that doeling has definitely been in a show ring before & were surprised when I told them this was her first show & she had been a nightmare to train!!


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## autumn_lankford

The spike collars do wonders to get them to walk, but do your best to try and get them to walk on a normal show collar as well. There are some judges that don't like the thought of having the animal on the spike chain. A few people I have worked animals with will use a small voltage cattle prod to get them to walk if the animal weighs about 45 lbs and still won't walk.


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## MollieGoat

Have you tried just tying her up? Sometimes they just need to work it out on their own. Tie her pretty close(a foot away and at regular head height) to the post or whatever you are tying her to and maybe she will decide that it's easier to behave than to fight with herself .


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## Lily's Mom

I have put raisins in my back pocket while training. Naughty?


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## HoosierShadow

My daughter is having an issue with her wether <again>, he's such a lazy boy lol
Yet, her new doe who is just about 3mo, wild as a hare <never messed with before we got her> walks pretty good considering she's only been working on lead training for a few days.

With her wether, the only way we can get him going when he starts the bulking and throwing himself down is giving his ear a tug, he can't stand that. 
He acts like she is killing him, but when it's time to head back towards the barn, he is soooo ready lol


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## goatgirl132

HoosierShadow said:


> My daughter is having an issue with her wether <again>, he's such a lazy boy lol
> Yet, her new doe who is just about 3mo, wild as a hare <never messed with before we got her> walks pretty good considering she's only been working on lead training for a few days.
> 
> With her wether, the only way we can get him going when he starts the bulking and throwing himself down is giving his ear a tug, he can't stand that.
> He acts like she is killing him, but when it's time to head back towards the barn, he is soooo ready lol


Lots of walking will fix that. 
My 1st yeas goat did that. And i was told to just keep walking him. By the time i was done withchim hedbfollow me around the show ring

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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