# Rumen shutting Dow. Help!!



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

This morning, Binky was curled up in the bucks' barn and wouldn't budge. He didn't come for hay, water, or minerals (he usually comes for all three). 

I went down to see him.

Almost no appetite. He took a nibble of nettle and one vitamin c chew. 

Temp 99.7. 

Not anemic.

Lethargic. 

No sounds coming from his rumen. 

I gave him a shot of b complex and some probiotics. 

Put him in the doe pen for easier access. 

We just went to get him some dark beer and alfalfa pellets for a slurry. 

How often should he get b complex?

How much beer, how often? How long does it have to sit at room temp to become flat? 

What else can I give him? 

How much alfalfa slurry should I give him? 

Is there anything else I'm missing? 

Also, what kind of beer is best?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Dangit. Typo in title. Oops!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Not sure what brand but darkest beer possible. I believe it is 6 ounces. I would get the beer in him before the alfalfa. B complex is once a day.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Will do. Thanks!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

If you know how to steal cud from another goat and give it to him that will be ideal.
If not, do as mentioned.
I would go 2 x a day with probiotics and fortified vit B complex because of no rumen activity.

Make sure you get a heat lamp or something to get hos temp up.

Massage his left side, knead at it, really work on it, make him get up and move around, it helps the rumen.

Alfalfa pellet mesh, 1/4 cc every couple of hours. He needs that. No grain products right now.

Here are some links that may help. Good luck.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/getting-rumen-going-161086/

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/beer-vs-probiotics-rumen-183230/

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/help-restarting-rumen-180816/


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Did you mean 1/4 cup? You put 1/4 cc, pretty sure he needs more than that  

Thanks for all the info 

He's moving and walking around pretty well now. I heard a very, very small sound from his rumen after listening for a while  

How long does it usually take them to get over this? 

Beer still isn't room temp. Ugh. How necessary is it to give it room temp? Will he be ok until then?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Also should I give him electrolytes? MOM or charcoal?

Edit - I don't have electricity at the barn. So can't do a heat lamp. It's pretty warm out today, though. Is that going to be okay, or should I look at brining him in the house?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

How likely is it he won't make it?

Still can't figure out _why_ his rumen's shutting down. He was eating well and was active yesterday. Never been sick in his life. He'll be 3 years old in May.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Binky could not refuse a handful of his favorite treat, cilantro. All is not lost! :leap::leap:


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Sorry for so many posts and questions...

Is ACV and/or baking soda good for this? Thinking about making electrolytes to soak the alfalfa pellets in, not just water. 

Gave him the beer. He got most of it. Hated it though, poor little booger.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I just went through this. I did not have any beer.
I made a slurry of alfalfa pellets, yogurt, probios to which I added 1 teaspoon baking soda, 1/2 t salt and a little molasses. 
We gave her Bcomplex 2x a day. We did not allow her any grain.
I sure hope your guy gets better. I would get his temp up even if it means a trip into the house or a really long extension cord. Ours had a fever so that was not an issue for us. She started browsing in the yard before she would eat alfalfa.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I use Guinness beer. My goats LOVE it, I have to fight them off if I go in the pen with it.

If you don't have electricity, get some soda bottles or the like, fill with warm water and set them under his armpits, and all around his body, then cover him with a blanket. That should help raise his temp.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I brought him in the house. It gets down to 32*F tonight. 

How often should I give him beer? Keep the dose at 6 oz?

Thanks so much for all the help


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Gave him 60cc slurry, another shot of b complex. 

And his temp is now 104. :sigh: 

What do I do now???


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd probably give him one more beer tonight.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

luvmyherd said:


> I just went through this. I did not have any beer.
> I made a slurry of alfalfa pellets, yogurt, probios to which I added 1 teaspoon baking soda, 1/2 t salt and a little molasses.
> We gave her Bcomplex 2x a day. We did not allow her any grain.
> I sure hope your guy gets better. I would get his temp up even if it means a trip into the house or a really long extension cord. Ours had a fever so that was not an issue for us. She started browsing in the yard before she would eat alfalfa.


That's what I have done too, but also the dark beer as well. To get it flat fast dump it in a cup fast, wait a minute and then suck from the bottom. A few other things is wads of anything really, hay or grass and make a ball and shove down him. Also the whole stealing cud and shoving down. Don't give up hope!!! I know it seems hopeless but let me tell you I was sure my doe was going to die and she pulled threw. 
Another thing, I had a buck that was very sickly, had been for a few days and his stomach was not overly active. I called the vet since I had no idea what was going on. She tubed him with A LOT of water, like I was pretty sure she killed him. Sure enough his stomach started grumbling like crazy, so don't forget the fluids.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Ok, I'll give him some water or electrolytes as well. Thanks! 

How often should I give him slurry and water?

Edit - Should I get up during the night to give him some then as well?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I didn't. I would wake up early and do it literally right before bed. I never know how often to give things so I always do it between chores. Like once a hour maybe less or more. I don't think any of it can be too much.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Gave him 2 pints of liquids and slurry an hour ago, another 2 pints and more beer just now. Poor little guy has quit fighting the syringe


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

His temp is now 100.6. I don't know what to think anymore. :sigh:

Do you think he'll be ok if I'm gone tomorrow morning for four hours or should I just play it safe and stay home?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Are you sure your thermometer is working? (I only ask because I once had one that didn't and it was all over the place) 
I would say see how he is doing in the morning unless you need to know now. I'm like the protective freak mother so I would probably stay home unless it was something I couldn't get out of or to get meds


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'm not really sure it works. The first few times I used it, temps were too low (perfectly healthy goats) but then everything was good and it was giving 101-103 temps on healthy goats.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Just checked on him. His belly was nice and tight and I could here a little gurgling :leap: All the fluid definitely helped!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing better.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

This morning he fought the syringe like crazy, pooped, peed, and scoured. I put him back outside. No more sounds from his rumen though :scratch:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Keep going with him. It took days for my doe to really start going again once it totally stopped. The alfalfa pellets are good but you also want some long roughage as well. I'm sure you don't but if any chance you have any kind of leaves that the goats love try offering that to him. I can usually get them to at least nibble on some oak leaves when they are off feed. Just sucks this time of year because there are none!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I think we have a tiny bit of pine left I'll give him. He loves pine. And also I'll raid he garden. Lol! 

The gum beneath one of his baby teeth is bleeding  I think from me forcing the syringe into his clenched mouth again and again.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Yes, keep the electrolytes and probiotics going; and water if he is not drinking. It took 3-4 days to get our StarryNight fully eating again. I was able to roll up artichoke leaves and get them down her. Dandelion greens are growing around here now too.
Good luck and I hope he recovers.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Poor baby, sorry it took so long to get back here to respond, been busy with some sick goats myself. Crazy weather ect 

In the mornings before a goat is up and moving around their temps can be just a bit lower. Check another goat at the same time and see.

Yes, 1/4 cup alfalfa pellets, if you do anymore than that at a time, then add water, it takes forever when you are adding the water to get more liquefied to be able to drench it.

Is he getting exercise? I would allow him to graze in the yard or somewhere he can browse. The more he moves around the better, along with treatment. I agree, if he will eat hay, that would be good for him too. No grain at all. 

Keep him warm at night. I do go out at least 1 x a night to make sure they are getting what they need.
Putting a sweater on him can be used if you have nothing else to keep him warm.

If you doubt a thermometer, always try another one.

Massage his left side. 

Keep doing what you are doing.

Another thing to check, how is his inner lower eyelid coloring? With stress, worms and cocci may arise as well. 
Causing anemia. So keeping an eye on that is wise.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

He's exercising pretty well I'd say. He ran all the way back to the doe pen from the house and has visited Eb (his companion buck) several times. 

I'll take him out to find some browse sometime today. 

He's not anemic now, but I'll definitely keep an eye on that. The cilantro should help with parasite levels as well. 

Already drenched him several times today. Still isn't interested in food. Gave him another b complex shot, hopefully that will kick in soon. 

I've been massaging his rumen side pretty often. He seems to like it


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

When you are doing all the right things, and you are; sometimes you just have to wait.
Keep it up, you are doing great.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Thanks


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good work.

Him running, is a really good thing to hear. Usually when they are really down, you can't get them to walk much.
So that sounds promising. 

Getting him to browse will help, something new to nibble on and goats seem to enjoy new flavors when not feeling well.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

We went for a walk. He had a little honeysuckle, wild onion, grass, cilantro, and rosemary. I let him in the garden to eat whatever he wanted, a very rare treat for only the sickest goats (that are at the point when I will let them eat whatever they will :lol. 

Massaged, gave him a couple more points fluids and slurry. 

Temp 103.6. 

Still having green scours. Should I give him MOM, activated charcoal, something else, or wait it out? 

I brought him in the house for the night again.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Also, I made him a sweater


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I'm so happy!! That sounds like a improvement!! I think it's oatmeal, just cheap old fashion oatmeal that is good for Scours and firming them up. I'm 99.9% sure that's what I used on a doe I purchased that came down with nasty terrible Scours.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

He ran around with the does for a while and is now relaxing and chewing cud!!!!! :leap::leap:  

Still not much of an appetite, but whatever.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

YAY!! Chewing cud is so great!!! I would just keep offering him things here and there and keep a eye on him. I have a stupid cold and I'm not eating like I normally do so I can't blame the guy for not eating as much as when he's 100% lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He is sounding much better, chewing cud is good. 

Green scours may be dietary now, fresh lush green grass and with all the new things he has been eating. 
Make sure it is in moderation. Be careful not to allow him to eat what is not good for him too.

Maybe drench some baking soda/water, it helps balance his PH, but not for a long period of time. Don't want to overdue it.

Do you have oat, grass or rye hay? The roughage helps bind the poo. Very slowly introduce it, a little bit to start.
Trying a different hay may do the trick. 

Oatmeal is a good idea. 

Make sure he gets electrolytes. 
Do the skin test. Gently pull outward his skin, then release, does it snap back quickly or slowly? 
If slowly, he is dehydrated.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

He's not dehydrated. 

I'll try oatmeal. I doubt he'll eat it though. Should I blend it with water and drench? 

I don't have grass/oat/rye hay currently, will try to get some today or tomorrow.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would offer, you might be surprised, he might gobble it down. Also, I'm kinda embarrassed to admit this lol but if you can't find grass hay or anything that was suggested if you go to a feed store or even Walmart, any place that has rabbit supplies they have bags for grass hay. It's really hard to get over the fact they want $8 for 3 pounds but it's something.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

We were so thrilled when StarryNight first brought up cud during her ordeal. Definitely headed in the right direction.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good things are OK.

Yes, offer the oatmeal to him.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

He's doing great - eating his hay, drinking water, running around with the other goats, lots of rumen sounds. Thanks so much for all the help


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:clap: You are very welcome, glad we helped and he is good now. :hug:


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so happy for you.:fireworks:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yay!! I'm so happy to hear that  now send that working rumen vibe my way


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Hopefully your doe will get better soon!


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## Diane Stilley (Dec 14, 2018)

lottsagoats1 said:


> I use Guinness beer. My goats LOVE it, I have to fight them off if I go in the pen with it.
> 
> If you don't have electricity, get some soda bottles or the like, fill with warm water and set them under his armpits, and all around his body, then cover him with a blanket. That should help raise his temp.


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## Diane Stilley (Dec 14, 2018)

I want to Thank the people that suggested the beer. I almost lost my beloved Gabby girl. We had a dewormer not working problem. I gave her a new dewormer and a med the vet gave me. She scoured really bad the med he gave me shut her rumen down. I tried the cud theft. Not enough. So i when to the organic yogurt helped but she was still not up to eating . I got on line and found your forum. I had nothing to lose but her if i didnt do something. So i gave her the guiness and low and behold . She started showing interest in hay and water . She started producing goat berries again. Maybe tomorrow a few pellets. This started two weeks ago. She is eating good hay the berries returned 3 days ago. I just wanted to thank you. I would have never thought of beer. I know a few other people appreciated this information. Now i just need to get her weight back up. Thank you again


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Diane Stilley said:


> I want to Thank the people that suggested the beer. I almost lost my beloved Gabby girl. We had a dewormer not working problem. I gave her a new dewormer and a med the vet gave me. She scoured really bad the med he gave me shut her rumen down. I tried the cud theft. Not enough. So i when to the organic yogurt helped but she was still not up to eating . I got on line and found your forum. I had nothing to lose but her if i didnt do something. So i gave her the guiness and low and behold . She started showing interest in hay and water . She started producing goat berries again. Maybe tomorrow a few pellets. This started two weeks ago. She is eating good hay the berries returned 3 days ago. I just wanted to thank you. I would have never thought of beer. I know a few other people appreciated this information. Now i just need to get her weight back up. Thank you again


Welcome to the forum! Please become active on here since the people who know have helped. We would really enjoy you being on here.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad TGS helped.


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