# Serena Kinders - Pip update - pics page 3



## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

My next three are due in the next 18 days. I'm feeling like a rerun of last year. Madame is due by the 30th, I expect her to be early a couple days, she has always been. As usual she gives me a terrific picture at least once a year. I expect she is carrying triplets.

[attachment=2:38pykjek]2011Madame.gif[/attachment:38pykjek]

Pip is still tiny and is still too cute to be an adult goat. And I am still scared to death about her kidding. She is due by the 12th.

[attachment=1:38pykjek]2011Pip.gif[/attachment:38pykjek]

And then there is Tsu again, I still can't tell if she's pregnant. Last year I thought she was and she wasn't. This year I think her udder is loosening up a bit, and she looks a little wider and different than last year, but not that much. She is due on the 5th. When I dried her up almost two years ago her udder completely disappeared, she just has the big teats, unlike anyone else I have, so I don't know what to expect. I looked further back and she didn't look this wide when she was pregnant the first two times. I don't have udder pics from then that I can identify a time period to. I will be so disappointed if she isn't pregnant. We tried to ultrasound her once, but it was too early for her size, we were going to do it again, and things just got out of hand and it didn't get done and then it started to seem silly to me, because I wasn't going to do anything different regardless. So now I'm fretting. I want babies and milk from her so badly. If I get kids out of her this year and I have milk from her again, I am never going to stop milking her, she will have to dry up herself.

[attachment=0:38pykjek]2011Tsu.gif[/attachment:38pykjek]

Anyway, I am sure Madame and Pip are pregnant, so babies soon!

Jan


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders second batch*

They are looking very wide!! I love Madame, those ears are just too cute!
Pip has a really nice udder growing too :thumbup:

I do hope that Tsu is preggy, it's so hard to tell by the belly once those belly ligs are stretched....have you felt for kid movement?


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders second batch*

I haven't felt for kids, I can't get my arms around her and she won't hold still for it either. And she is stronger than 10 men. I have a young acquaintance who has been helping me out around here, and he is quite proud of his muscle, but he is pretty intimidated by Tsu. We have seen movement in there. Don't know that that means anything. I guess it is just a waiting game for me.

I love Madame's ears too. Thanks. Pip was really easy to milk last year, I hope to milk her though also this year, and for as long as possible. I needed a second freshening udder and the increased milk that goes with that first. I hated risking her to another pregnancy. But maybe it will be easier. She is a little bigger this year and doesn't look so stretched as last year. She's pretty uncomfortable though.

Jan


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders second batch*

Madame kidded this morning. I was on baby watch for three nights, and I'm really tired. So this morning she had twins, a buck and a doe. Everyone seems to be well. I was relieved there was a buck, he is likely spoken for, assuming he looks like a keeper. I haven't got good pics yet, but here are a couple.

This one was within an hour after they were born. [attachment=1:2j11zwrj]2011madamekids1hr.gif[/attachment:2j11zwrj]

This one is the girl later on today. I didn't get any more yet. 
[attachment=0:2j11zwrj]2011Madamedoe.gif[/attachment:2j11zwrj]


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Aww..they are cuties...congrats... :thumb: :hi5:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Thanks. I will be glad when it is all over.

Jan


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Your welcome... and I know what you mean.... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

wow too cute!! Madame is beautiful


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Thank you, I think Madame is pretty special.

Jan


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Madame looks like she is smiling in that picture! Congrats on the twins!


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Madame kidded!*

Thank you. She loves to have babies. She is a terrific mom. They stay tight bonded. I got her from Missouri four years ago, and the other doe kid I got at the time is not like that at all. She is a good attentive mom, but when they don't need her anymore she is perfectly fine to go off on her own. In both cases their doe kids have been the same as their mom. It is really interesting.

Jan


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - No babies from Tsu, Pip is due any time*

Tsu's due date has come and gone, fooled again! Pip is on day 146, and I am hoping for some opinions. Like last year, I am really nervous about her.

Here she is right now:
[attachment=1:1wpv02vo]2011piprear8may.gif[/attachment:1wpv02vo]

[attachment=2:1wpv02vo]2011Piprearclose8may.gif[/attachment:1wpv02vo]

[attachment=0:1wpv02vo]2011Piptop.gif[/attachment:1wpv02vo]

I would appreciate any comments about how close she looks like she is. She has had no goo yet, other than enough to make straw stick. She hasn't dropped. I can't remember if any of that happened last year. It seems like she just had them. She got up tonight and has eaten a little and now they are back in the shed.

She spent all day in the kidding shed and Tsu stayed right by her all day.

Jan


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Serena Kinders - No babies from Tsu, Pip is due any time*

Wow she look huge! Hope she has them for you soon.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Pip had two boys, both of them in the birth canal at once. I was very lucky, one of my vets was awake and out and about (it was 11 last night when I called) and he came and couldn't get them out either, so we took her to the clinic where he did a c-section. Her uterus was torn terribly, and both kids are alive. She is alive too, but still really not wanting to be. They all would have died here last night if he hadn't been able to do this.

She won't be having any more kids obviously.

I don't know how long it takes to be able to think she will live - ? She got oxytocin, Pen G and banamine, and will get banamine again today and Pen G for 10 days.

Two of my neighbors went with me, and everyone was needed. Assisting at a major surgery was a first for me, although I wasn't in the middle of it. I didn't faint. One of my neighbors was a paramedic and she was acting assistant. Everyone just fell into a role, no direction, it was pretty cool.

We got out of there at 2 AM.

Don't know if I will be able to keep her from drying up, but I'm going to try. We got colostrum from her and got a little into them last night, but they were pretty traumatized too. They took a little from the bottle this morning, and she isn't getting up yet. I made her get up once, but they aren't sure about eating yet, and she wasn't staying up long so I don't think they will end up getting any more than they already had within the timeframe needed. He said the moms usually feed the babies in these circumstances.

Anyway, so far everyone is alive. I am really aware how lucky I am to have more than one vet around here who can do goats, and both of them are mine.

When they are all more stable I will take pictures.

Jan


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

I'm very glad they all are alive... wow.. what a thing to go through, for ALL of you. Nice neighbors! 
Hope all goes well now.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

I hope she makes it for you - poor thing  
:hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

It is great that you had a vet and neighbors who were able to help. 
I hope she recovers well! :hug:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Thank you, It was great to have the right people and in time, we were very lucky. I'm worried about getting fluids into her, she isn't taking any yet or eating. She lost a lot of blood. I tried molasses water this morning, she wasn't wanting it. Should I just keep trying that?

Jan


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

:hug:

Wow - glad that everyone is alive and I hope it gets better for you all!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

you may have to tube her if she wont drink on her own


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Sorry to hear that Pip had such a hard time of it, but glad everyone is alive.

As far as fluids goes, ask your vet about lactated ringers. A friend of mine did that for her horse who got really dehydrated. All you do is stick the needle under the skin and let the fluid go in. You have to change spots frequently, but it gets fluid into them!


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

She just now took some molasses water, I am going to keep bringing it to her a couple times an hour and see if that gets her going. The boys are active, I'm going to get them another bottle soon, and later on today try to get some help getting her to feed them, and if not to milk her. All the people who help me with stuff like that are still sleeping.

Jan


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

I had a doe who prolaplsed this year and the vet had me give her calcium gluconate (I believe???) subq - I had to do about 120cc twice a day (60cc's on either side of her shoulders) with a 14G needle. Maybe that would help if she doesn't turn around from the molasses water?


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Thanks. She doesn't like molasses water. I took her some plain warm water and she started drinking. Both boys have taken 2 ounces each twice, and they are active. Last time I was out there a few minutes ago she got up voluntarily for the first time that I've seen it. She has moved position a couple times, so she must have gotten up to do that. I am hopeful, and very happy the kids will take from a bottle, so I can keep them going no matter what happens to her. I sure want her to live.

Jan


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

I do hope things get better for you. I ended up loosing my doe because she prolapsed very very early in the morning and it was hours before I found her. She was supposed to go to her home on a Saturday and I was certain she had another few weeks before she kid so I took the monitor out of the barn Friday night. She had a large buckling early Sat am and passed away 24 hours later. I feel for you and just remember that you're doing everything you can!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Awww...so sorry that Pip had problems, I've been there and it sounds very promising with your girl, alert and getting up on her own as well as drinking are all great signs. Prayers sent for you and your girl.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Thank you Liz,

That is what I was hoping to hear from someone who has been through this. We just got her up and I milked about a pound and a half of colostrum out of her. We tried to get the kids to eat, but although she stood to let them she wasn't up to encouraging them, and we couldn't get it done. But they are taking a bottle and I am going to freeze part of this. I felt like if I didn't get her partly empty at least her milk would not start to come in. I am really hoping to keep her milking. So I'm not too worried if I milk her and bottle feed the boys. She is a terrific little milker and I would like to have that as long as I can, since once she dries up it will be over. She has pet status.

At about 13 hours old they are amazingly active and very friendly to people. They are going to be a different experience for me. She isn't rejecting them, but she didn't get to do the licking bonding that they do. Hope that keeps up.

I think she is getting more alert, so that is encouraging, but I'm worried about the placenta. I have a call in to the other vet, and will ask him what else to do, he is the real goat expert. The vet who did this surgery said last night that he can do the surgery on them, but he doesn't know how to medicate them. The other one has a major job in Albuquerque, and hasn't got a clinic. So he couldn't do this kind of surgery. Between them it is great.


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## Kimmerz Cali Kidz (Apr 30, 2011)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

good luck! and good looking out! Can't wait to see pics of everyone fully recovered and thriving! :stars:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Thank you. I will try to get pictures in the next day or two.

Jan


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Dr Z (the goat one) said to give her room temperature beer to get fluids and carbs into her, and potato chips for salt. And B complex. In addition to the penicillin and banamine. She has shed at least part of the placenta.

She wouldn't drink the beer out of a bowl, but was not resistant to the drenching syringe, which she has never had before, and we got most of a can down her. No chips, though. I have been really careful about what they get for treats, so they aren't used to a lot of junk. I guess I should lighten up.

He is going to come and see her tomorrow night.

Jan


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## jduwall (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

good luck....prayers coming your way


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip kidded, it was an emergency*

Thanks you! I am off to bed now, I can't imagine how exhausted Pip must be, considering how I feel.

Jan


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

Yesterday the other vet came and checked her out, everything is working, her temp was normal, and she started eating. I hadn't seen her drink, but she peed in front of us, and she isn't drying up, so I guess she must be drinking. She got loaded up with banamine and b complex and something that I never heard of, and the same today except for that mystery thing. I'll ask him about that again. And tomorrow. After that just the penicillin. It's after the 10 days on penicillin I will be scared a little.

The babies are doing fine and are learning that she is the milk source and not me. They were already cuddling with her, but if a person went in there they immediately went to the person instead. I didn't give them bottles today because I think she needs them to come to her. She started getting attentive to them yesterday. One of them is slow, the other has it figured out. I have figured out how to get the slow one latched on, though. He will get it eventually, it's getting easier. I want them bonded to her, I think it will motivate her to heal. They are very cute and I have every intention of taking pictures. Tomorrow.

Jan


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

Jan...the fact that she is up and moving around is a very good sign...and that she pee'd, thats an awesomely great sign. Wanting her babies and showing interest in them as well as allowing them to nurse... all great signs that she's going to be fine :hug: 
It's going to be very hard for you to see her progress, especially after seeing her go through what she did, we are here for you and please keep us updated on her progress...and of course, we need to meet these babies :hug:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

Thank you Liz. I have never had this experience before, so I don't know what to expect and it really helps when someone who knows more thinks she is doing well. Ralph the vet said the kids usually die. So he was impressed with that. He thought the kids looked fine. She looks so small now. And has that huge shaved side and foot long incision.

Jan


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

I've only ever experience one devastating and tragic delivery and that was 4 years ago when I lost my Dolly, both her baby girls were coming at once and no matter how hard I tried to manipulate them, I couldn't do it and I didn't know of the vet I have now...my friend and neighbor came to help and managed to pull the babies , they were dead and Dolly died later the next morning in my arms...she never recovered, would'nt/couldn't stand, drink or anything so I do believe that your girl was in the best hands and you did wonderful in getting her help, she's recovering and seems to be doing very well at this point, keep up the TLC and she'll be back to herself in no time :hug:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

I'm so sorry anyone ever has to go through that, Liz. I was very very lucky the vet was available. If not for that there would have been nothing we could do, and they all would have died. I knew Pip was too little. I would have felt guilty for a very long time if she had died in agony. So now we'll see how long she will milk for me after these kids are big enough to wean.

Jan


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

She may surprise you! She's a Kinder right? I milked my Boots for 27 months after her last freshening in 2008...she's a pygmy/nigi cross, so I would imagine that Pip will go as long as you let her with the Nubi in her. Granted though that Boots production was low in the last half of that time, but I couldn't tell her no when she would wait patiently at the door for her turn on the stand.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update*

I sure hope she will do that, I am trying to breed for does who will milk through for extended periods of time. In her case she has a nice udder and is a really easy milker, and once she dries up she won't be productive, I would rather have her be useful, since I am clearly keeping her forever. No butcher for her. She is a Kinder. She is really short, though, both directions, so the Hoegger bucket is the only one that fits under her. But I have it.

Jan


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Serena Kinders - Pip update - pics p.3*

Here she is, in all her glory:
[attachment=2:3tgi2bw7]2011pip.gif[/attachment:3tgi2bw7]

It's real hard to get pictures of these boys because they are always right around you when you go out there. Their first awareness was of people. And their first food came from people. I am very happy they have attached themselves to Pip, it would have broken her heart if they hadn't. I haven't given them a bottle since Thursday night, and they are nursing. The slower one seems to have figured out he can do it without help.
[attachment=1:3tgi2bw7]2011Pipandboys.gif[/attachment:3tgi2bw7]

[attachment=0:3tgi2bw7]2011pipboys2.gif[/attachment:3tgi2bw7]

Jan


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Cute!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Jan, Pip looks WONDERFUL!! Just like any new mama should( of course without a bald belly and stitches :wink: ) Her boys are so adorable with those ears too...great to see them with mama :hug:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you Liz, I am so happy with how she is doing. The black kid figured out today he can eat without me putting the teat in his mouth, so we are over that hump. Both of them know how to eat now, and she is feeding them. I am sure it makes her more interested in hanging in there and getting well. She really wants to be with the other does she has been sharing that space with, but I'm not doing that yet. They have a shared fence, and she is spending most of her time right by it. Madame is in there and the night all of this happened when we brought Pip in she just yelled and yelled. She kept doing that until Pip came out of her house. Monday I will ask the doc how long she needs to be kept separated, but we are taking a run to trade kids at the end of next week, and I'm not doing it until we are back at the soonest.

Jan


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I am so glad that every one is doing well. She looks like a very good mama!


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Thanks, I think she is a very good mama. 

Jan


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