# Milk production question



## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Hi yall.. i have a 2 1/2 yr old doe nubian/sanaan X.. she had her first babies in November.. i statted milming her aftsr about 2 weeks a d she only have 1/2 quart but i was thankful.. now her kids are 8 weeks and just weaned.. her production has dropped in half some days less.. she eats hay ..mineral.. sweer feed eigh alfalfa pellets.. up to date on deworming.. so im wondering why the huge drop in production also she is not currently in heat either. When i first started shed fill her bag.. now she barely does.. shes never full like before i milk ever 12 hrs ..


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Hounddog23 said:


> Hi yall.. i have a 2 1/2 yr old doe nubian/sanaan X.. she had her first babies in November.. i statted milming her aftsr about 2 weeks a d she only have 1/2 quart but i was thankful.. now her kids are 8 weeks and just weaned.. her production has dropped in half some days less.. she eats hay ..mineral.. sweer feed eigh alfalfa pellets.. up to date on deworming.. so im wondering why the huge drop in production also she is not currently in heat either. When i first started shed fill her bag.. now she barely does.. shes never full like before i milk ever 12 hrs ..


Sorry for the typos guys my phone makes me struggle lol


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Can you post the amounts of the feed and hay she's getting? Maybe also post a picture of your doe. That seems like an awfully small amount of milk for a Nubian-Saanen cross to give. Is she crossed with any other breed?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Also, what kind of hay are you feeding?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Hounddog23 said:


> Hi yall.. i have a 2 1/2 yr old doe nubian/sanaan X.. she had her first babies in November.. i statted milming her aftsr about 2 weeks a d she only have 1/2 quart but i was thankful.. now her kids are 8 weeks and just weaned.. her production has dropped in half some days less.. she eats hay ..mineral.. sweer feed eigh alfalfa pellets.. up to date on deworming.. so im wondering why the huge drop in production also she is not currently in heat either. When i first started shed fill her bag.. now she barely does.. shes never full like before i milk ever 12 hrs ..


Are the kids away away from her so no sneaking sips? Is she a self nurser? Try taping her teats and see. How much feed are you giving her and how many times a day. Feed makes milks.


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Also, what kind of hay are you feeding?


I feed coastal and alfalfa but its hard to get fresh alfalfa in my area


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Sfgwife said:


> Are the kids away away from her so no sneaking sips? Is she a self nurser? Try taping her teats and see. How much feed are you giving her and how many times a day. Feed makes milks.


Her kids went to their new home so thats not it.. bug there was one day whwrd i suspected self nursing b/c her udder was half empty n her teat looked curved like shed been pulling on it but i havent actually seen her do it yet


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Sfgwife said:


> Are the kids away away from her so no sneaking sips? Is she a self nurser? Try taping her teats and see. How much feed are you giving her and how many times a day. Feed makes milks.


I feed her a mixture of alfalfa pellets n sweet feed twice a day on the rack she eats about 2 and a half pounds each time but she does seem to be getting full quicker on the alfalfa pellets


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Can you post the amounts of the feed and hay she's getting? Maybe also post a picture of your doe. That seems like an awfully small amount of milk for a Nubian-Saanen cross to give. Is she crossed with any other breed?


Not that i know of this evening ill get pics on the rack she doesnt have as big as an udder as her sister but shes not even filling it up


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Got pics of her and sister. Ok ao cricket the one in question ia the chamoise colored.. her sister tilly is the white doe.. she makes a quart a d a half on her own. Cricket used to give half a quart full but now its like 1/2 cup


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Could it be that her sister is dinking from her?
I second the teat tape trial. It will tell you pretty quickly if someone is trying to rip it off.
After milking her, you can use a band aid first (so the opening doesn’t get sticky stuff on it), then paper tape around the ends of the band aid.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Both a Nubian and Saanen are great milk producers. Its a nice cross of breeds.. A quart and half seems low for even a low day. Of course genetics can play a role to lower productivity..but a few things you may look into..along with ruling out the self nursing/or sister stealing milk now..(since her productivity has dropped) are
Copper. If they are low on copper..milk productivity will be down.
Hydration. If they are not drinking enough water, which is common when cold..product will drop.
Over all mineral imbalance can affect things as well.
Parasite burden..both internal and external. A fecal and good combing to check for lice would be good idea. 
Of course getting plenty of groceries...but neither look like they are suffering there .


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

You know i watch them alot but it could be someone else is drinking from her also.. i will use some tefla pads and cover her teats and give that a shot n see what happens.. thank you all for the advice!! Im not at all new to goats but this is my first time doing a anything dairy so tips always welcome thanks yall!!!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would test tape her to begin with to see if someone is nursing. Also, rule of thumb to start is one pound of feed per 2# output. Make sure total calcium is high enough


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I second @happybleats suggestions!


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

You didn’t say how big your does are. I am curious what they weigh. A good milk goat and Saannan and Nubians are tops, should produce around a gallon of milk daily or close to that if they are healthy and getting plenty of good foods. Do you know the breeding of your does? What their dam produces?


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

TexasGoatMan said:


> You didn't say how big your does are. I am curious what they weigh. A good milk goat and Saannan and Nubians are tops, should produce around a gallon of milk daily or close to that if they are healthy and getting plenty of good foods. Do you know the breeding of your does? What their dam produces?


Unfortunately i dont know that about the parents


TexasGoatMan said:


> You didn't say how big your does are. I am curious what they weigh. A good milk goat and Saannan and Nubians are tops, should produce around a gallon of milk daily or close to that if they are healthy and getting plenty of good foods. Do you know the breeding of your does? What their dam produces?


I do not unfortunately.. crickets is around
80 pounds or so tilly her sister is more like 90-105 also tilly produces a lot more than her im wondering if next time i need to just bottle feed the kids she was doing great in the beginning i did the practice of waiting 2 weeks.. pullin babies off at night then milking once daily. The shortage seemed to start when I weaned her kids at 8 weeks.


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Im wondering also if i should just let her dry up and take a break. I dont plan on breeding her until the fall. I have a ND who will be in milk around may who would fill the gap.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Hounddog23 said:


> Unfortunately i dont know that about the parents
> 
> I do not unfortunately.. crickets is around
> 80 pounds or so tilly her sister is more like 90-105 also tilly produces a lot more than her im wondering if next time i need to just bottle feed the kids she was doing great in the beginning i did the practice of waiting 2 weeks.. pullin babies off at night then milking once daily. The shortage seemed to start when I weaned her kids at 8 weeks.


80 lbs. seems very, very small for a 2 1/2 year old doe. I've got Nubians, and my smallest doe is still a bit over 100 lbs. I'm not familiar with Saanens, but I'd be tempted to wonder if there is some sort of an issue going on, such as internal parasites, not absorbing nutrition properly, or some kind of a mineral imbalance.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Are you familiar with body condition scoring? If not, this pdf will help you out https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2p2_vG38f7yfjZqNyxK7Z4
What is her score?
And I'm assuming you've ascertained that she's not self nursing?


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> 80 lbs. seems very, very small for a 2 1/2 year old doe. I've got Nubians, and my smallest doe is still a bit over 100 lbs. I'm not familiar with Saanens, but I'd be tempted to wonder if there is some sort of an issue going on, such as internal parasites, not absorbing nutrition properly, or some kind of a mineral imbalance.


She does get regular egg per gram fecals and honestly i am half guessing lol but shes always been a lil smaller than her sis. But not underweight dont get me wrong lol i feed my girls and they have 2 acres to eat on. Loose minerals. Hay all the time.


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Are you familiar with body condition scoring? If not, this pdf will help you out https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2p2_vG38f7yfjZqNyxK7Z4
> What is her score?
> And I'm assuming you've ascertained that she's not self nursing?


I am. Im actually a Veterinary technician by career so i do regularly fecals preventive deworming.. i rotate the dewormers also to try n stop a resistance. And her nipple has become sideways and curved i noticed this evening im really wondering about the self nursing now i didnt have the right fape here yet i dont wanna regular gluey tape on her skin. But how would i prevent her from self nursing? Never had one do that before


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Hounddog23 said:


> She does get regular egg per gram fecals and honestly i am half guessing lol but shes always been a lil smaller than her sis. But not underweight dont get me wrong lol i feed my girls and they have 2 acres to eat on. Loose minerals. Hay all the time.


They certainly don't look like they're starving! 
Minerals are an issue for me. Specifically copper. I have to really watch my does for signs of deficiency, or the milk quality goes down. I imagine the quantity would also drop if I wasn't proactive. Just something to consider! Giving her a break and letting her start over might be good. I'm doing that with a doe right now, drying her off early, as I feel she needs a break. 
If you're interested, this is a really good article about boosting a doe's udder capacity and production while dam raising kids. I have followed a lot of the pointers, and been pretty happy with the results. http://glimmercroft.com/Udder.html


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Hounddog23 said:


> I am. Im actually a Veterinary technician by career so i do regularly fecals preventive deworming.. i rotate the dewormers also to try n stop a resistance. And her nipple has become sideways and curved i noticed this evening im really wondering about the self nursing now i didnt have the right fape here yet i dont wanna regular gluey tape on her skin. But how would i prevent her from self nursing? Never had one do that before


Never had one self nurse (yet) but I have used band-aids to keep a kid from nursing. One curving under the teat, with the padded part against the teat orifice, and another horizontally wrapped around the teat to help hold the other band aid on. Does that make sense? It didn't leave a residue or irritate her skin.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Hounddog23 said:


> I am. Im actually a Veterinary technician by career so i do regularly fecals preventive deworming.. i rotate the dewormers also to try n stop a resistance. And her nipple has become sideways and curved i noticed this evening im really wondering about the self nursing now i didnt have the right fape here yet i dont wanna regular gluey tape on her skin. But how would i prevent her from self nursing? Never had one do that before


You do realize that prevenative worming is not a good thing right? You worm only when needed per the fecal. And choose the appropriate wormer for the worms that need treated for.

Taping teats.... a bandaid from top to bottom making the pad be on the orifice tip. then i use cloth med tape around the bandaid. I use cloth bandaids because they are a bit less sticky. One or two pieces around should be fine. Youtube has a few good teat taping videos. If she is taped she should not be able to get the tape off so easily. You tape for a while then try to leave it off and see if the habit is broken. If you start losing milk again repeat for longer. Just continue until she has stopped. I jave heard that a self nurser is a hard hard thing to break them of though. So do not be suprised if it take a good while.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Sfgwife said:


> You do realize that prevenative worming is not a good thing right? You worm only when needed per the fecal. And choose the appropriate wormer for the worms that need treated for.


^^What she said!!^^



Hounddog23 said:


> i rotate the dewormers also to try n stop a resistance.


Please do not rotate dewormers! That is a sure fire way to create resistance. It used to be thought that this would work to stop resistance, but it actually causes the worms to build resistance faster by introducing the worms to all dewormers.

Pick a dewormer that works and stick to it until it doesn't.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Hounddog23 said:


> crickets is around
> 80 pounds


My Mini Nubian is about 95 pounds and 28 inches at the withers. I read a full size Nubian weighs a minimum of 120 pounds. I wonder if you really have Minis? How tall are your does?


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

MadHouse said:


> My Mini Nubian is about 95 pounds and 28 inches at the withers. I read a full size Nubian weighs a minimum of 120 pounds. I wonder if you really have Minis? How tall are your does?


The folk i got them from werent that involved.so maybe.. I'll have to measure them ive only measured my dwarfs lol i do know shes atleast taller than my buck who stands 19 inches


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> ^^What she said!!^^
> 
> Please do not rotate dewormers! That is a sure fire way to create resistance. It used to be thought that this would work to stop resistance, but it actually causes the worms to build resistance faster by introducing the worms to all dewormers.
> 
> Pick a dewormer that works and stick to it until it doesn't.


Thats not what they teach you in tech school.. using the same one over n over will create a parasitic resistance


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I don't know what to tell you.:shrug: I've heard of people not having any dewormers work in their areas anymore because of the old technique of rotating wormers. I was told this by my vet, so I just thought I'd warn you.


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## AlabamaGirl (Jun 18, 2020)

Hounddog23 said:


> Thats not what they teach you in tech school.. using the same one over n over will create a parasitic resistance


This is interesting.. Way too much conflicting information out here, some say it's good, some say it's bad.. Someone needs to write some research or something and give a definitive answer!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Here's an interesting article if anyone's interested: https://www.successful-horse-training-and-care.com/deworming.html


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Hounddog23 said:


> The folk i got them from werent that involved.so maybe.. I'll have to measure them ive only measured my dwarfs lol i do know shes atleast taller than my buck who stands 19 inches


Might surprise you! Sometimes they weight more than they look like they do!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Feel along the spine and ribs. If those are bony, then she is thin- belly size and winter haircoat can really screw up what we think they weigh and their body condition.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Heart Girth measurements for an approximate weight estimate in addition to the body score?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I use this method to calculate weights for my goats

With a cloth measuring tape, measure in inches around the goat's heart girth and the distance from the point of the shoulder to the pinbone. Use the following formula to estimate the weight in pounds:

heart girth (inches) X heart girth (inches) X shoulder to pin distance (inches)
Divided by
300
Not as precise as a scale, but I think a bit more precise than just measuring heart girth.


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