# BoSe // Selenium



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

What do you use? How often?

The below quote is taken from another thread and about BoSe..


Red Mare said:


> From my own personal research, I know it's only in their system for 21 days.
> I do my bred does religiously every 21 days per another long time goat person I deeply respect.
> They all look fantastic. JMO.


I have never used BoSe but thought it was a 2x a year product not monthly. ??


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I use the Selenium paste and do it every few months although it says to do it monthly. I have never had a deficiency or od.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I use it depending onthe circumstances. Coming up to breeding, 100 days pregnant, and a week befor the due date is normal for my does. Some youngsters have needed more at times. The Saanen wether that I bought last winter got monthly shots until he was on track.

I have an old boy that will be getting monthly shots from now on I think. He is showing his age. 

One thing you want to watch is to not give it to your buck too soon before breeding season. The shot will mess up the mobility of his swimmers for about 4 weeks. He will seem to be sterile even though he isn't.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

goathiker said:


> One thing you want to watch is to not give it to your buck too soon before breeding season. The shot will mess up the mobility of his swimmers for about 4 weeks. He will seem to be sterile even though he isn't.


I never knew this! Thank you for sharing.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I usually do BoSe 8 weeks prior to breeding and again 8 weeks prior to kidding. I ended up not doing BoSe before breedings this year because I just don't think they need it. I will give them BoSe before kidding though.

In my opinion, 1x monthly is too much as long as you have loose minerals available. I personally wouldn't give them that much unless under extreme circumstances.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Yes I had only ever heard of doing it every 6 months or so. 

I also had seen a product that is similar to Copper Bolus and was wondering how that would work or if anyone uses it. Let me try and find it again.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Her we go. .. 
Has anyone ever used or researched this? 
http://www.animalhealthsupplies.com...um-pellets-bolus-for-sheep-and-goats-10g.html

I spoke to the salesperson and they said it is great but that is the salesperson.


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## 4theluvofgoats (Jun 9, 2011)

> Has anyone ever used or researched this?
> http://www.animalhealthsupplies.com.au/ ... s-10g.html


 onder: Interesting. Found this article in relation to the above http://pharmplex.com.au/Technical/selenium_deficiency_sheep_cattle.htm
All research that I have done has lead me to believe that the oral gel doesn't last as long as the injected form and that the injected form stays in their system for at least 21 days. Above article mentions that


> Oral doses of selenium as sodium selenite or sodium selenate are absorbed rapidly by the animal and the effect may be from 2 weeks to 3 months (Hoskins et al., 1986, Tasker 1992).


Each ml of Bo-se contains 1 mg of selenium and 50 mg of Vit E (68 iu) vet charged me $37 for 100ml bottle dose for 80 lb goat is 2ml cost per dose $.74 plus the syringe/needle $
A 5 ml dose of the gel contains 2.5 ppm (or 2.5 mg) 500 iu of Vit E
Cost per dose on a 30ml tube is $1.15 cost per dose 80ml tube $.55 plus shipping unless you get the free shipping deal
I feed my horses this http://www.jeffersequine.com/product.asp?camid=EQU&pn=11657 which is a crumble and has 1 mg selenium and 625 IU Vit E per 1/2 oz scoop cost per oz $.43 plus shipping

It wouldn't be feasable for me to use the crumbles unless I fed ea goat individualy on the milk stand and at that would feeding them 1 oz every 6 months get me the same results as the Bo-se?

If the boluses are slow release and cost effective I would like to know more too and why aren't they (or are they) available here in the USA?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

according to the rep I spoke with we can buy them and they will ship to the USA. The company is from Australia. They say it is good for 3 years!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I've been wondering how much I should really be giving my goats. We use the selenium e gel from Jeffers. I can't remember when I last gave it to the girls! I know one of our does has it last week. 

Is it safe to give it about 4-6 weeks before kidding and then again right after kidding, or should I just wait and do it immediately after kidding? I typically always give it to mom and babies right after kidding & after the babies stand and nurse. I am so afraid of overdosing, but at the same time I don't want to deal with another selenium deficient kid, we had one last year and scared me! Of course I was able to identify the issue right away and get him treated, but I'd love to never have to go through that again if I can help it.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

The paste is safe to do every month it is actually recommended to do every month. SO I would say go ahead and do it before and after kidding giving a few weeks in-between doses.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

HoosierShadow said:


> Is it safe to give it about 4-6 weeks before kidding and then again right after kidding, or should I just wait and do it immediately after kidding? I typically always give it to mom and babies right after kidding & after the babies stand and nurse. I am so afraid of overdosing, but at the same time I don't want to deal with another selenium deficient kid, we had one last year and scared me! Of course I was able to identify the issue right away and get him treated, but I'd love to never have to go through that again if I can help it.


I've always given BoSe about 8 weeks prior to kidding and since doing that, I have yet to have a selenium issue with the kids. :shrug:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Those boluses look interesting. If anyone tries them, could you post your findings and experiences?

So with the BoSe, what if you don't know your kidding date? Is there a time frame where it won't be effective at all? Say for instance, I give it to a doe that should kid in 4 wks, but ends up kidding a week after the shot?


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## 4theluvofgoats (Jun 9, 2011)

Logan, did they send you any documentation on these pellets? I emailed them asking what the ingredients are and asked them to send me studies on the product and how much selenium is released per day. Selenium works with vit e so I asked them to provide me with more info. Also asked them the exact size.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

They did not give me much info. I emailed back for more and am waiting to hear. If you hear let me know. I will do the same. I am thinking I may get some and try it out with a few of my goats. 

HHF -I would think but don't know that it would be safe anytime in pregnancy to give BoSe as long as the doe does not already have a high level of Selenium in her system.


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## 4theluvofgoats (Jun 9, 2011)

In response to my request for more information


> Can you provide me with more information on tracerite pellets? Has anyone tried these with goats? How big are they, how long so they last, how many mg are released per day etc. What are the ingredients and is there any VIT E included?


This is the reply I received:


> Hi Christy
> 
> The Tracerite selenium pellet is a long acting pressed pellet that weighs 10g with 5% selenium ( 500mg selenium per 10g pellet) and is used in sheep and goats.
> 
> ...


This is the same information provided on their website. No studies were sited and no info on how much is released per day. Seeing how there is no Vit E included one would have to supplement additional Vit E to make the selenium most effective. I have concluded that I will stick with their free choice sweetlix mineral and Bo-se prebreeding to boost fertility and 2-3 weeks pre kidding to give the kids the best possible chance for passing to them in utero before birth. This has worked well for me thus far so as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I'll stick with the same regimen. Another thought that popped into my head was that if this lasts 3 years and a goat is dosed with it and then sold the new owner might unkowingly overdose selenium. Health records are provided with all my sales but some buyers may not take note of certain things even if pointed out at the time of sale. I think next time I send blood in for testing I will have the level of selenium tested and then retest after dosing with Bo-se to see what the actual results show. If someone decides to go ahead and test these on their herd and do blood testing to show actual results please post results so that we can all learn more.


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

I am taking my herd into my vet tomorrow for CAE and CL testing, I've printed out the info on this product and will get my vets opinion on it. Are there any questions you guys would like me to ask him? My vet owns and treats livestock on a regular basis.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

did you ask your vet? What did they think?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I use the gel. I don't usually give once a month as recommended. I give it to most of my goats every other month. One special doe gets it once a month because I believe she has some issues utilizing selenium, or at least I worry about her. Her parents and grand-parents on both sides are fantastic with very straight legs, but hers are horribly hocked in from behind. Her first kid born with her breeder died of pneumonia cause by white muscle disease. I don't feel she was raised correctly and there-in lies her problem, but just to be sure she gets it every month and a couple of weeks before kidding. I don't use BoSe because I like to keep injections down to the minimum I need and feel there is less risk with the gel is used properly.


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## Lamancha Lady (Dec 13, 2011)

I thought that you only give selenium if you are in a selenium deficient area. I read on a different post that its toxic if given when not needed.


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## apachedowns (Mar 14, 2010)

I am in a deficient area and also give the gel....I give it before delivery and a couple months after...so two times a year on my pregnant girls and the rest only get it 1 x...I have seen better growth in the kids since using it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I am in a deficient area and have been giving BoSe shots twice a year. Pregnant females getitng it about 4 weeks prior to kidding. I have decided to go to 3 times a year with the BoSe shots because I think my goats need more than twice a year. I give it at a rate of 1cc per 40 lbs.


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

Freedomstarfarm, my goats didn't make it to the vets on Saturday. Our son was admitted friday for emergency surgery for gangreen. He's still in ICU and has gone through 3 surgeries. I still intend to ask about this product when I get my goats reschedualed, right now we are drained. I promise I will post what I find out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Our son was admitted friday for emergency surgery for gangreen. He's still in ICU and has gone through 3 surgeries. I still intend to ask about this product when I get my goats reschedualed, right now we are drained. I promise I will post what I find out.


 I am praying for your son...I am so sorry....  :hug: ray:


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

Thank you so much for your prayers, our son was put back in ICU for bleeding ulcers, but is improving daily. I plan on trying to get my herd into the vet next saturday if I can. I have the printed material that I plan to show him and see what he says. I will also ask if they need vitamin E along with this product.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Marilyn I am sorry to hear your son has been sick. My thoughts are with you and hoping for a full speedy recovery. :hug: ray:


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

:hug: Thank you


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thank you so much for your prayers, our son was put back in ICU for bleeding ulcers, but is improving daily. I plan on trying to get my herd into the vet next saturday if I can. I have the printed material that I plan to show him and see what he says. I will also ask if they need vitamin E along with this product.


 :hug: ray:


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

Good morning everyone, just wanted to let those waiting for a vets reply about this product know that I've made a new vet appointment for friday and will ask him about the selenium pellets if he thinks they are safe. Here are additional questions I've written down for my vet, please let me know if you have a question.

1# Would I use a whole bolus for ND goats?
2# Would it be safe to use along with loose minerals?
3# Would I need to give vitamin E along with this product?
4# Why would they want vet advice before repeating dosage?
5# Is it safe to give to pregnant does?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I have a question. If you look at the copper boluses they sell, it says: Do not use this product in association with Selenium supplementation unless deficiency of both minerals has been confirmed.

So if you copper bolus can you use these still? And why doesn't it say on the Selenium boluses they they can't be used with copper supplementation???

Confusing :? .


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

And here's where I'm even more confused....

I missed this near the top of the Copper boluses:
May be administered as required with Tracerite Selenium pellets (bullets) and/or Tracerite Cobalt pellets (bullets).

But then later it says:
Do not use this product in association with Selenium supplementation unless deficiency of both minerals has been confirmed.


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok Hobby Farmer, I wrote down down your question, and will ask my vet. My appointment is tomorrow. I sure hope this snow lets up a little.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Anyone know what is considered "enough" selenium in soil content? My county is 2.46 ppm. Is this enough to not need supplement?


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Oops, make that 0.246 ppm above.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm not sure how much is enough in the soil. I just started taking an online course through Langston University and in the Nutrition section they say that selenium is better to give as a top dress on their feed than by injection. I found that kind of interesting as most people do inject selenium...


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

Hi everyone, I had a long discussion with my vet concerning the selenium pellets. Here is what he had to say, and I know it may not be as complete an answer as I would like to have had but he had never seen this product before and did ask to keep the printouts that I took in for him to look at. He did tell me that he likes supplimenting instead of injections when possible. But made it very clear that every area would be different and that this product might not be safe in an area that has enough selenium in the soil. So here are his answers based on his knowledge.

#1 Would I use a whole pellet for a ND?
He started out by saying that the printout was very incomplete, but because our soil is so lacking in selenium in this area (Panhandle of Idaho) he did not think I would be overdosing if I used a whole pellet.

#2 Would it be safe to use along with loose minerals?
Yes in this area.

#3 Would I need to give vitamin E along with this product. 
Not sure because the printout didn't say if there was anything else included in these pellets.

#4Why would they want vet advice before repeating the dose?
He believes that would be to check blood level of seleium before using again.

#5 Is it safe for pregnant does?
No, even tho there is a small percentage of does that could abort because of selenium, he would not give it to pregant does. He also would not give BoSe injections to pregant does.

#6 I'm sorry Hobby farmer I had your question written on the back of my paper and forgot to flip it over. :hair: 
But while we were talking he asked me if I supplimented with copper and I said yes. He nodded his head so I don't think it would be an issue giving both.

So here is what we decided we would do. I will buy the pellets, and treat one of my bucks. Wait a year and he will draw blood and check his selenium level. That will give us an idea as to how often we will give this product. One site said yearly and the other said once every three years.
If his level is good at one year we will test again at two years until we see how long it takes for his selenium level to drop. At that time I will start my girls on it as well. I feel better giving it to one animal first instead of my whole herd.


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

I just recieved a phone call from my vet, saying that he was going to look farther into information about the selenium pellets. He told me that it might take him a week or so but if he finds out more info he will let me know.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks for that info Almar! 
I would be willing to try them on a few of my goats also and am happy to share a order with you or if that is complicated order my own. I have a friend who is soon graduating from UCDavis Vet school that has been specifically working with goats in Sweden for 2 years. When she gets a chance I will also ask her to review this and ask my vet as well. 
Either way I want to try it on a few. 
I have read that BoSe bottle about not safe for use in pregnant does but know lots do it anyways. I have only given it to one pregnant doe and she was at day 141 and was fine after injection.


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

freedomstarfarm said:


> Thanks for that info Almar!
> I would be willing to try them on a few of my goats also and am happy to share a order with you or if that is complicated order my own. I have a friend who is soon graduating from UCDavis Vet school that has been specifically working with goats in Sweden for 2 years. When she gets a chance I will also ask her to review this and ask my vet as well.
> Either way I want to try it on a few.
> I have read that BoSe bottle about not safe for use in pregnant does but know lots do it anyways. I have only given it to one pregnant doe and she was at day 141 and was fine after injection.


That sounds great. I'd like to give this vet a couple of weeks to see if he can find any reason I shouldn't use it. He mentioned talking to a nutritionist and a couple other people but can't remember what they were. This vet told me that there is a 1% chance of a doe aborting if given BoSe while pregnant, and of coarse that is a small percentage but it would be my luck that it would be my best doe. His take on the BoSe injections is that it should be given before breeding and because of the length of time that it would be in the does system (90-120 days) the kids would have a good selenium level even if it is not given again before kidding. But if he can't find a reason not to use them I will place an order and send you some. Are you in a low selenium area? Your vet could probably help you decide if your area is low enough in selenium that you wouldn't be overdosing. Please keep us informed if you find out any info from your friend or vet.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Our area is low but not bottom of the chart for Selenium.


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