# What to use? ---



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

So we've had extreme wet conditions in May, we've had on and off rain the past couple of weeks with HOT and humid temps.
We have 2 does with hoof rot - one came to us with it as I've posted in my other thread, and she is slowly starting to look better, still has an awful limp.
One of the other does has it, and I've been watching her for a week now with a limp but couldn't find the problem, I cleaned her feet out, checked for soft spots, etc. and finally yesterday a spot opened up and I cleaned it out.

NOW, our little buckling has a tiny bit of it. 

I am using thrush buster on them. I want to spray everyones feet with a disinfectant, and if I can find something I can use for them, I'll make them all stand in it.

But what do I use? I saw somewhere to use bleach, water, and a little dish liquid? 

Any help would be great as I want to go to the store in just a short bit and pick up whatever I don't have. 

I also plan on using duct tape and taping the infected feet.

I have some absorbant pads from when I had my youngest daughter - they are great big and they were used around a c-section incision to keep it dry from sweat. I was thinking I could cut those into pieces to fit the goats feet and tape them on, or should I just use tape only?

THe buckling isn't that bad, but I want to get his feet nice and clean with a solution, trim a bit more off and then treat him. And just duct tape him up. But I want to make the does more comfortable - one will be kidding in the next few weeks.

I've been checking feet every couple of days, but plan on cleaning everyone's feet every day, and want to use a spray on them to help keep them healthy.

I am learning as I go, and it's very discouraging just starting out and having this happen. I love my goaties, so I want to get them in shape, happy and healthy.

Thanks for any help! I want to get this done ASAP today before it decides to rain again!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

If it's true rot...like, with abscesses and the whole nine...I'd probably clean the abscesses out, hit the feet with a copper sulfate solution (Kopertox...available at lots of farm & feed stores), and start the affected goats on a round of BioMycin 200 to help them clear the infection.

Always wear gloves and old crappy clothing when using Kopertox. Stuff stinks, and it stains skin. The stains stink for a while, too.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

AMEN on the gloves. Just did this last night to 3 of my goats. (We have had a lot of rain too) It leaked on my thigh and even after a shower and fresh cloths :sigh: I still smell like medicine. :GAAH:

The past 6 or 7 months had been rain like I've never seen. My yard is nothing but mud. After a couple days, everyone gets depressed and they don't even want to come out of their sheds. I am thinking about making walkways using wood pallets. At least they would have a dry place to lounge in the sun and get out of the buildings.

They really like to eat hay next to the fence and lounge around chewing cud. They eat and go right back in the sheds now. We have been letting them out into the front yard when we get home before it rains again, but it's never long enough between storms and being eaten alive by the skitters.

Gina

Do they make muck boots for goats? Just a thought.... onder: A goat in goloshes....


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Something else I just noticed....I think I'd probably skip taping or otherwise sealing their hooves. Fusobacteria necrophorum are *anaerobic* bacteria to begin with, so they'd actually thrive if you were to deprive the hooves of air.. Not a good situation.

Open and drain the wounds.. Treat with Kopertox.. Treat with tetracycline.. Turn'em loose. Repeat as needed.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: What to use?*

kopertox...it seals thefoot and treats.. i do all mine at the start of our wet season when i trim hooves, never had an issue with it at all


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Thanks so much! I called the feed store and they sell Kopertox. My cell was breaking up a bit, so any idea how big of a container it usually sells in, and do you use it straight out of the bottle or have to mix, etc. Sorry I've never heard of this stuff before. He said it was $17.99.
They didn't have the BioMycin 200 though.

For tonight I cleaned everyones feet out, sprayed them with bleach/water/dawn dish detergent, and they looked pretty good, in fact you can hardly see anything wrong with the bucklings foot, so I am almost wondering if maybe someone hurt his leg instead of it really being hoof rot? But he does have a tiny little patch of it barely noticeable on his front foot.

I used thrush buster again, and it does seem to be helping the one does foot tremendously! <the one I rescued who had severe foot rot>.

Thanks for the info on the duct tape, I was thinking about that too as I was putting the medicine on. I'll just clean their feet 2x a day if I have too, and hopefully we get everyone comfy then I'll go to cleaning 1x a day. I am soooo GLAD today is the last day of school so my kids can help me...LOL


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: What to use?*

good luck, the thrush buster and tape worked on my goats. 
one doe mysteriously starting limping on her front leg, the minute she kidded. not sure whats up but she'll get the same treatment


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



AlaskaBoers said:


> good luck, the thrush buster and tape worked on my goats.
> one doe mysteriously starting limping on her front leg, the minute she kidded. not sure whats up but she'll get the same treatment


Thanks! The ground is trying to dry out, and their feet weren't too awful, so that's another reason I wasn't too concerned with the duct tape. However if it does get ready to rain, I'll most likely use the absorbant pads and tape them on, so they don't get as wet - get all the mud lodged up in there.

I'm going to clean out the infected goats feet 2x a day, to help keep stuff from getting trapped in there. 
I'll try to get the Kopertox tomorrow, but I need to make sure they have it in stock or if they have to order it, the phone wasn't getting a good signal for some reason so I could hardly understand what he was saying.

Is the bleach/water/dawn soap a good thing to use until I get the Kopertox?
I just sprayed it on and between their toes after I cleaned their feet. They just need a better trim job, but otherwise, they looked fine other than the two does.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I thought I'd mention that my husband brought some animalintex home today, and a hoof pick, so we'll clean their feet out good with the pick/brush, put a little more thrush buster on, some animalintex and wrap it with duct tape. 
I've worked with animalintex years ago when we had abscesses, etc. on the mares, and it worked GREAT. 
For those not familiar with it, you can use it as a cold or hot poultice, or dry as well.

So as soon as my husband wakes up today, we'll go out and get their feet wrapped and see how the thrush buster + animalintex work. I'll continue to spray everyone else down with bleach/water/dawn soap every evening and make sure feet are cleaned out. 
Our buckling is walking a lot better today, so I am wondering if it's his hoof really bothering him or if someone hurt his leg. I won't wrap him, since there isn't enough of a concern in there to wrap - just keep it clean.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I was told they'll order the Koppertox, so hopefully I can get it in the next few days.

Our buckling has hoof scald, first it was in one front foot, and yesterday he was looking good, no real lameness noticeable, and today he was lame on the other front - hoof scald. Back feet look fine.
I have heard this stuff can be contageous, but also I wonder if it's caused from moisture, could the dew on the grass be getting in their feet in the mornings and late evenings and causing this? 
We've had some very hot & humid days, with very little rain this past week, however, we seem to have gotten a sprinkle here and there, just enough to get the ground wet, but the ground is relatively dry now. 
We're going to get a break from the real hot, humid temps, or at least they say we are, so I hope that helps.

Everyone else is healing up, and looking much better. Molly got the hoof scald in her back foot yesterday, but seems a little better today. We're going to go out and give everyone a thorough check over in a short bit - they are all lazing by the rolls of hay we brought in yesterday so it's hard to say how anyone is progressing LOL


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## MiGoat (Apr 21, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I'd just order stuff online if they have to order it...since it will come right to my door. Unless the feed store is just around the corner?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I agree, I really need to start ordering stuff. The feed store that I can get it at isn't very far away, thank goodness.

I wanted to add that everyone is doing about 95% better now! Sweetheart is mending well, still a bit lame, but it'll take time for her hoof to heal up <no more noticeable hoof rot/dead tissue>. Our buckling is back to his usual self and then some LOL I definitely want to get the Koppertox to use especially on rainy/hot/muggy days.


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## DPW (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

There is an alternative to Koppertox you may want to consider. Works great, doesn't smell and costs less. Zinc Sulfate. The cheapest way to buy it is in a product called Moss-B-Ware. You can find it at places like Wal-Mart etc. It's used for killing moss on roofs, sidewalks etc.
For hooves that have scald and not full blown rot yet I trim and clean hoof, spray with OTC iodine sold at feed stores, then sprinkle well with the zinc sulfate.
For goats with hoof rot I make a bath of 10% zinc sulfate and make them stand in it for five minutes. Ten would probably be better. The following paragraph is from Langston University's web site. It says soaking needs to be an hour or longer but I've had good results with my five minute soaks. If your running your goats through a 8 to 10 foot trough as they also suggest they're not standing in it for any where near an hour.

"Copper sulfate (5%) and zinc sulfate (10%) are commonly used foot bath chemicals. Zinc sulfate is generally preferred as it does not stain hair and has less toxicity concerns than copper sulfate. Zinc sulfate is also not decomposed by organic matter to the extent seen with copper sulfate meaning that the solution need not be changed as frequently. Both chemicals are slow to penetrate the hoof and soaking periods of an hour or longer are necessary. Using a detergent, such as dishwashing detergent, in the solution may help penetration. Dry foot baths (85% limestone, 15% zinc sulfate) can also be beneficial."


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Thanks so much for that info! We typically shop at Walmart at least once a week, so we'll check the Moss B Ware out and see which one my husband wants to go with. 
So far everyone is getting better...whew! Our buckling, Boe, was lame this morning, but I'm not sure if it's from the hoof scald <it is healing up>, or because him and our young doe got too rough playing yesterday. They felt soooo good yesterday playing all day long! So it wouldn't surprise me - but he's walking a lot better now. These two are a riot together...haha..

My husband took Sweetheart's hoof pack off, and although it smelled....BLEH....! Her hoof looked really good. He sprayed the bottom off with bleach/water/dawn soap and it was looking real good, he put more thrush buster on and repacked it with animalintex and duct tape.

I definitelyw ant to get the Zing sulfate treatment in what has been recommended, I just have to wait until the weekend to do it. I have been expecting a payment that never showed up, and it messed up our budget for the week! Just lovely when that happens. If it were an emergency we'd have what we need - but if what we are doing is working until the weekend, and everyone is doing fine, we'll wait. 
I'm glad we caught this before it got any worse! However, we're supposed to have rain tomorrow...and hot and humid weather here at the end of the week/weekend....not looking forward to that at all.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Just FWIW...I've used zinc sulfate (TSC...Dr. Naylor Hoof & Heel) and copper sulfate (Kopertox) both, and found Kopertox to be MUCH better.. The zinc sulfate was like water, and had to be applied several times a day. Kopertox is sorta oily, and sticks around longer.

We had one that had scald who I treated...and treated...and treated with zinc sulfate, several times a day, yet she continued to knee-walk and hobble around. I finally tracked down a bottle of Kopertox and she was back to 100% on her feet after about 2 treatments.

Just sayin..that's my experience with the two.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Thanks cmjust0! I can get Koppertox, so I will do that the next time I am in town.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I have been trying thrush buster this week. Still got limping goats. I will pick up Kopertox today. Does anyone know if the copper is absorbed through the hoof or does it just stay on the hoof? I have 2 sheep and want to know if anyone has tried it on them. If not, I'll stick with Thrush Buster for them and try the kopertox on the goats. :sigh:

It is supposed to start raining today all the way through the weekend. Did I mention it's HOT! Blah.

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



mrs. lam said:


> I have been trying thrush buster this week. Still got limping goats. I will pick up Kopertox today. Does anyone know if the copper is absorbed through the hoof or does it just stay on the hoof? I have 2 sheep and want to know if anyone has tried it on them. If not, I'll stick with Thrush Buster for them and try the kopertox on the goats. :sigh:
> 
> It is supposed to start raining today all the way through the weekend. Did I mention it's HOT! Blah.
> 
> Gina


I'm not sure, but sorry to hear you have sore goats too! The only one limping besides Molly is Boe. He's got some hoof scald that is spreading around the middle of his toes making him sore. The thrush buster has been helping greatly though, but this one little spot needs to have some put on it.

I can't wait to get the Koppertox, especially after all the rain today, and then warm, humid temps on the way...yuck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I just thought I'd post that while everyone is doing great, poor little Boe just can't get a break from the scald. So I FINALLY got something similar to Kopertox - same ingredients/amounts - it's Thrush XX. Man, that stuff stinks LOL I put some on his feet, and hope it clears it up.

If we have any more issues I am going to SCREAM....


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

It does stink, doesn't it? lol

I got some on a pair of gloves WEEKS ago and they're still a bit oily and smell like Kopertox...I suspect it's a "forever-stink," too.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



cmjust0 said:


> It does stink, doesn't it? lol
> 
> I got some on a pair of gloves WEEKS ago and they're still a bit oily and smell like Kopertox...I suspect it's a "forever-stink," too.


Well I'll be smelling it for a while, I got some on my hand LOL I might have to exchange the bottle - it leaks around the lid when you shake it. 
So now I have thrush buster and Thrush XX on my hand....colorful...and smelly LOL


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Colorful and smelly...sounds like our herdsire in October. lol


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



cmjust0 said:


> Colorful and smelly...sounds like our herdsire in October. lol


LOL!!!! Well, I just cut up a bunch of cilantro from the garden, so I could get it in the freezer, and now I smell like the Thrush XX with Cilantro...Y-U-C-K!
But I believe the Thrush XX is winning this one.

I have to take the bottle back tomorrow and exchange it, very frustrating! It's leaking under the cap, and a lot has been wasted - running down the side of the bottle.

Our buckling is walking really well, just has one foot that is bothering him. Major improvement from this morning.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

My Kopertox leaks like crazy, too.. I dunno what it is about it, but I never could get it to seal right...I think they need glass jars with o-rings or something. lol

Glad to hear he's making improvements...copper sulfate foot bath is good stuff.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

LOL! Sounds like we are all on the same boat. I have been purple (cheap latex gloves) greenish and smelled like copper for the past week. :laugh: I am still trying to kill this. If the kopertox doesn't work (and Pen day 4) I am thinking of taking Murray to Dr. Berry and let him cut everything out and dose him with something stronger. He is such a handsome boy. I want to use him at the cowboy church for some of the dramas we do. (he would be a pack goat for my hubby the prospector)

Poor Murray is the first rescue from a bbq. He had it rough the first month we had him. I hate to think if we can't get rid of this I may have him put down. :sigh: I don't want him to walk like this and be miserable. I think he has some arthritis in his ankle as well. He snaps and pops like my poor knees.

I'm going to try this a few more days then I'll let Dr. Berry have a wack at it. I can't wait till we are at the new place. New soil. Hills they can climb up and stay DRY! Maybe a gravel area in the low spot.....Man, I wish they would come cut the trees so we can get started. Oh, well. Maybe by Christmas... ray:

Gina


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Lots of bacteria are penicillin resistant, but I'm fairly certain the footrot bacteria -- fusowhatsit necrosomething LOL -- *is* susceptible to tetracyclines..

If the Pen doesn't work, consider swapping him over to that and see if it helps.. Tetracycline is known to go to the bones and joints, which is why you don't give it to kids under 6mo's or early bred does.. I really dunno how well Pen gets distributed to the footie regions. 

Also...what dosage are you using on PenG, and what kind of needle? Very common to underdose it, or to dose it with too-fine of a needle. It's a suspension with big particles...needle needs a big hole in it to get an adequate mix of med particles and carrier. A 20ga works OK, but an 18ga is better...with a 22ga, you're injecting more carrier and less med than should be.

The dosage we use is 1ml/15lbs of bodyweight, twice a day for at least 7-10 days -- if not 14 days. LOTS of needle sticks with PenG..

Tetracyclines (200mg/ml formulas like BioMycin 200 or [yikes] LA200], on the other hand, are usually dosed at 1ml/30lbs, 1x/day for 3-5 days. A 20ga needle works great, or even 22ga if the goat will stand long enough for you to squeeze it all out. It's a much easier treatment cycle than PenG, frankly, and if you're really dealing with true bacterial foot rot...might work better anyway.

Just a thought.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I think it's a 18 gauge....I've been doing 3cc a day. Boy does he hate it. I have LA200 and have used it with good results but heard the pen might be better. (it's cold and thick he really hates it)

Is the tetracycline injectable? I have to go to TSC today so if they have something you think might work better, let me know and I'll try it. Why not. I've tried just about everything else.  Dr. Nylors....5.99. Thrush Buster....10.99. Kopertox...19.99. Cheap latex gloves....1.99. Going to work with purple hands and smelling like copper...PRICELESS! :laugh:

I'll check back after lunch and see if you think of anything else. Thanks for the all the help.

Gina


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Let's see...3cc's/day...he weighs 22.5lbs?  

Yep...underdosing is a very common problem with PenG when it comes to goats. If he's big enough to have been rescued from a BBQ and to get foot rot, those 3ml almost certainly aren't enough to do much of anything at all..

I'm curious now...how much does he weigh, approximately?

Oh, and if you read the label...you're actually supposed to warm Pen before injecting it. lol I don't usually warm it either, but yer apparently 'sposed to. I dunno...who cares, right? 

Anyway, I'd switch him to a tetracycline, and yep...it's injectable. In fact, LA200 *is* oxytetracycline hydrochloride. BioMycin 200, Agrimycin 200, LA200 -- all the same active ingredient. My personal preference is Bio-Mycin 200, simply because I got the CRAP scared out of my for even considering using LA200...buddy of mine claims to have had one "stroke out" from the pain. I dunno if that's really what it was, but he described the reaction just as I've seen it described here: goat ran around like it was on fire, screaming and hollering like it was being slaughtered, but instead of getting over it and walking it off, my buddy's goat apparently decided to collapse and die instead. 

I wasn't there, though...big grain of salt in order here. I mean, it was enough to convince ME not to use it -- but that's just me, and I know the guy really well. I will say that he's not one to get mushy about goats at all, and normally wouldn't hesitate to do something uncomfortable if it's necessary.. Like, setting bones, emergency on-farm c-sections...I've even known him to sedate and cut out broken horns on the farm. But, like any producer, he doesn't like unnecessary losses..

He uses Bio-Mycin now, too.. He's the one who told me about it initially, and advised that I strongly reconsider using LA200.. And I really don't think it's got much to do with it being less ouchie for da poor widdle goaties. LOL

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I'd switch to Bio-Mycin because I have it on hand. If I didn't, but I had LA200...well, I'd probably chicken out and try getting the PenG dose up where it should be before trying it.  If a proper dose of PenG didn't work and I felt like I absolutely didn't have a choice, I *guess* I'd give the LA200 a try.

Of course, you're probably a lot less scared of it than I am, seeing as how you've actually used it successfully in the past.. I, on the other hand, bought a bottle and let it expire -- unopened -- on the shelf of my goat medicine cabinet. LOL


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Awww I hope Murray gets better, sounds like he has it really bad and the stuff is holding it's own  Our buckling has a really bad front foot with hoof scald, and he's had it in all 3 of his other feet. I used the Thrush XX yesterday on 3 of his feet and by afternoon he was walking almost normal again. The front foot I packed with animalintex/thrush buster yesterday morning, took it off, and cleaned the goo out of it, and just used Thrush XX no more hoof pack since it really does need air.

Poor Molly has it in her back feet, so I've got to treat her again in a little while. But the front foot that has the severe hoof rot seems so much better.

Gina - I was told to cut away anything that looked dead, and if you have to, cut until it bleeds. Thankfully we haven't had to cut until it bleeds, but I haven't noticed anymore dead tissue. What are you packing his foot with? Since I started using Animalintex w/thrush buster I've noticed the biggest improvement. They sell Animalintex at most of the feed stores here and I know I saw it at Tractor Supply the last time we were there. It's great stuff, and if your packing a foot, it's what you'd want to use.
If the ground is dry where he's walking you can use animalintex and wrap it real good with vet wrap. Otherwise, if your like us, and getting a little rain every single day or so it seems! Then use a little piece of the animalintex and wrap it securely with duct tape. I'd change it every day or every other day. With Molly I change hers every other day unless the tape starts looking rough.

I love the rain, but not since we have gotten goats. And it's been such a wet month and a half here. Not watch, all the rain, and then we'll be facing a drought in late summer. I would just SCREAM...not kidding LOL


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Pine tar works wonders but it stinks like tar but it will soften the hoof and keep it from rotting when all this damp weather is on us. It is thick, messy and a good all around hoof care.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Wow. Murray is a easy 160 pounds. Boy, if I dose him with that much he's really going to hate me. I do stick the needle in my pocket and walk around checking/feeding/watering with it before I hem him up. Every been run over by a goat? I have. I bruise really easy too. :greengrin: With the heat we have had, it warms up by the time I give it. It's just so thick.

I have been using LA 200 for about a year and I do rub the site to try to help, but they haven't cried or anything. Ben doesn't even stop nursing. :laugh: Moose keeps kicking his leg til it stops burning.

Oh, I read somewhere about only giving goats shots SQ instead of IM. It's not supposed to be as sore and it said they can metabolize it just as fast. Anyone else heard of this? Just grasping at straws. I want him to be happy to see me not running and hiding. He used to wander over and be loved on....not anymore. I get the goat stink eye. :roll:

Well, it's off to give TSC some more money. They hired a couple of new people and I need to pay their salary. :doh:

See ya in the morning!

Gina


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Yeah, 3ml of PenG for a 160lb goat is basically wasted PenG and wasted time...not likely to have any effect whatsoever. 

As for LA200, the fact that you're giving it IM could be why they're not reacting to it as strongly. I've heard there's less 'pain' nerves in muscle than skin, so they may just be feeling a dull heat instead of what's apparently just a SEARING PAIN from LA200 injected SQ. I'm totally speculating there, though I always give Banamine IM *specifically because* I know it stings pretty good and I don't want it to sit in a little pocket under the skin and hurt..

If you do switch him to tetracycline -- and keep in mind that antibiotics are really only helpful when you're dealing with TRUE ROT, not scald -- the dosage is about 3ml/100lbs of goat 1x/day for 3-5 days.. I usually go with 5 days if I'm treating something that's already a problem, or 3 if I'm sorta just trying to prevent something from getting infected.. So, if he's 160+/-, he'd get about 5ml..

So, are you pretty sure this is rot? You mentioned perhaps taking him to the doctor and having them cut something out of his hoof....I'm assuming he's abscessed?


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Update on Murray. He's walking on all fours! He's still a little stiff but better just the same. I have yet to use the hoof knife. (wussied out) I will trim after this weekend. TSC manager showed me how to use it. Kind of like peeling a potato. She said if I take it easy and just shave off a little at a time I should be fine...I bought some blood stop powder just in case. :greengrin: BTW, I did the shots SQ this time. So much better and he didn't fight as bad. Just stood there. (Thank you, Lord)

If you really want to have some fun.....give a wool sheep a SQ shot. You will be ringing wet by the time you get done. I waited till he was in his shed and all stretched out for a nap... Put the leash on him, took out the needle, then it was on. He bucked around like a bronco. (he HATES shots) I stood on the leash close to his head so he would have to drop and look at my boots then I had to play find the skin.
(we just clipped him about a month ago so it could have been worse) I can't believe how much his wool has grown! His feet look pretty good. Just some scald between one toe. He also has a habit of the gland between the toe getting blocked. I have to squeeze and try to keep mud out of it. Fun times let me tell you. :laugh:

I will keep the LA 200 as a IM shot after that advice, CMJ. Thanks.

See everyone Monday. Happy Father's Day!

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I'm so glad to hear Murray is feeling better! Great news! You'll have to post a pic of him on all fours! 
Everyone here is doing very well too! Boe's hoof scald is almost completely gone, and you'd never think he was barely able to walk a few days ago! In fact, he's become QUITE a show off! And to top it off, his girlfriend is in heat! LOL
Sweetheart, our pregnant doe is almost healed up from her hoof rot. She's walking really good, a little off today, but hardly noticable. The ground is really dry now <FINALLY>, so I am no longer doing hoof packs unless someone looks to be backtracking.

Thrush XX is great, I used it on Boe and Molly <the doe I have the other post about that I rescued>. I'll probably not put anymore on Boe but I'll clean and check his feet daily.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Copper's good stuff for foot problems, huh?!? 

I may actually switch to Thrush XX from Kopertox, now that I'm reading about it.. You can get Thrush XX in an aerosol -- I LIKE THAT IDEA. Seems much better than splashing half your $20 investment in Kopertox all overe your stanchion, hands, clothing, and/or the dirt floor of the barn.

I like forums. They's good places to learn stuff.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



cmjust0 said:


> Copper's good stuff for foot problems, huh?!?
> 
> I may actually switch to Thrush XX from Kopertox, now that I'm reading about it.. You can get Thrush XX in an aerosol -- I LIKE THAT IDEA. Seems much better than splashing half your $20 investment in Kopertox all overe your stanchion, hands, clothing, and/or the dirt floor of the barn.
> 
> I like forums. They's good places to learn stuff.


I agree, very good stuff. Boe is doing just fine, and is being a brat LOL Molly - the rescue doe - I have her on thrush xx now, with no hoof packs and she is walking GREAT <even though half the tissue in her foot is gone from the hoof rot but it's slowly healing>, and I just started our other doe who still has a tiny bit of hoof rot on it and stopped with the thrush buster/hoof pack. I treat them every evening.
They don't sell the aerosol can at our feed store, but that would be great! When I get ready to run out of thrush XX I'll have to look for an aerosol can. 
BTW, at our feed store for a bottle of Koppertox it was almost $24, and Thrush XX was almost $14 - same active ingredients w/same amount too, and I think both bottles probably had about the same amount in them. It's nice to have saved $10 and still get the same outcome!


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Please don't rub it in about the Thrush xx being cheaper. :GAAH:

Murray is still doing well. I still have some more to trim till it looks normal. Right now it is shorter than all his others. :sigh: At least he is walking with only a slight gait. He has even forgiven me for all the "cures" I have put him through. :laugh: He's a good boy.

Now Moose is favoring his front leg. :hair: They better be glad I love the little brats so much. :sigh: I guess I'll be sporting some purple on something this week.....

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

So I was looking at a few articles about hoof trimming, hoof rot, etc. And I found an article that said this:

Spreading hydrated lime (the kind people used to put in out-houses, not the kind you spread on pastures) on the ground seems to help reduce the spread between animals.

Is this safe to use in a pasture for goats? it doesn't sound all that safe? Just curious what everyone thinks about this as it was the first time I saw it mentioned.

Since I am still at my computer, I figured I'd edit with an update.

The preggo doe has a hoof pack again. She was looking real good, walking great, getting her feet cleaned daily and thrush xx. But with the dampness from the little bit of rain the past 2 days, she started getting lame again.
So I cleaned her foot real good, poor baby, I cleaned it until it was bleeding and made it real sore, but I cut away some of the tissue, put on thrush buster, but I ran out of animalintex <NOOO!!!!!>, so I cut an absorband surgical pad and duct taped that to her foot. I think I backed off with the hoof packs too soon...

The doe with the abscess isn't much better, but I cleaned her foot out real good tonight, also had it bleeding <UGH>. Packed it with my last piece of animalintex/thrush buster/duct tape. I put thrush xx on all of their other feet as a precaution.

Molly, the rescue doe is still doing well. She has an issue with her back foot that had hoof scald, but I am treating her feet 2x a day and hoping I don't have to start packing her feet again, but that also depends on the weather.

So far the other 3 are not affected ::knock on wood!:: I am checking and cleaning feet which thankfully today it was DRY.

When our girls kid any time now, I plan on turning them and their kids out in our back yard so we can hopefully keep them away from any risks of hoof rot.
Molly was in our backyard with this stuff, but no goats have been in the back yard in over a month....

Maybe I should just start a blog....LOL


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

HoosierShadow....are they on any kind of antibiotics yet?

If not, I'd reallyreallyreallyreally do that..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Not yet, but I am calling our feed store in just a few minutes to see if they have pen and how much. I've never bought it before, but I saw on Jeffers they had pen G for about $20, so hopefully our feed store will be about the same.

How much do you typically give a goat? I made both of my girls real sore digging in their feet last night, but wanted to get it extra clean with putting a hoof pack on. And I am afraid to leave the hoof pack off, as the preggo doe was doing fine with it on, and went downhill after I took it off. I think her foot needs to heal up a lot better so nothing can get down into the soft tissue that's trying to grow back.

We have a 40% chance of rain/storms today, so far nothing on the radar. I really REALLY hope it doesn't rain, the ground is dry, and I'd love for it to stay that way for the rest of the week/weekend if possible.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Well, the storms and rain are basically forming over the top of us with a cold front <if you can call it a 'cold' front>. So far no rain here YET, but it'll happen I'm sure 
I repacked the one doe's foot - still getting some junk out of it - I put thrush xx in there instead of thrush buster, and packed it up for now. I don't want her out walking around and things getting wedged in there or I'll have a time getting it cleaned out <it's hard getting down in there>. I'll clean it and check it again when I feed this afternoon.

I took the hoof pack off my preggo doe, cleaned it as best I can, put thrush xx on it, and let it sit for a bit, bedded down the stall and letting her stay inside since she has no desire to go back out right now. I'll keep the hoof packs off of her when she is in the stall and at night.

I called the feed store, they have pen - 100cc for around $8.00, so I want to pick some up, but have to wait a couple of hours before I can get into town.

Everyone else seems to be doing fine. Thankfully. Sure wish the ground would stay dry for a while...


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Dosage on PenG is 1ml/15lbs 2x/day through an 18ga needle for 7-10 days. It's A LOT of med, and A LOT of needle sticks, which sucks. 

Once an animal gets over 6mo's old, I pretty much switch to a 200mg/ml tetracycline simply because it's less needle sticks for them and -- at 1x/day dosing -- about half the aggravation for me.. Bio-Mycin 200 is what I use because it doesn't sting like LA-200, but LA-200 is the same med...oxytetracycline hydrochloride, 200mg/ml. The "correct" dosage varies depending on who you ask. I use it about 1ml/25lbs, personally, but I've seen references as low as 3ml/100lbs (1ml/33lbs) and as high as 1ml/20lbs.. Basically, shoot for 3-5ml/100lbs (lol), and give it 1x/day for 5 days. If you're goat's calm and will stand OK for a shot, this can be given through a 22ga needle...I'd recommend a 20ga, though, so you can push it a little faster in case somebody gets antsy.

If you're pushing LA-200, which stings...definitely a 20ga minimum, or even an 18ga, so you can jab and push before they have a chance to object.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Thank You SO MUCH I appreciate your help. We have lots of 20 gauge needles, and syringes. Not sure if we have any 18 guage.

I called the feed store - no Bio Mycin 200. They do have LA 200, and another called Duramycine. 
I think we might try the penacillin for now, even if it's 2 sticks a day, not sure my preggo doe would handle the stress of anything stinging as she's more sensative than the other doe. BUT, when we go to Tractor Supply this weekend I'll see if they have Bio Mycin. If not, I'll see if I can order. I'd definitely rather do 1 shot a day - actually hubby will have to do the shot so I can watch - I've never given one before, but he gives horses shots all the time for illnesses/vaccinations.

So with the treatments I am doing on their feet, this should help clear it up a little faster I hope? I am so heartbroken that they are so sore.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

While I'm at it..  ..the easiest SQ site on a goat is behind their 'armpit,' basically.. Pick up the hide across the ribs just behind their front elbow and give the shot there, directing the needle downward into the 'tent' of skin.

Very common for folks to try to SQ up along the shoulders or topline...trust me, an adult goat's hide can be *needle-bending* tough up there. LOL

Just sayin'.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

Thanks!

Ok I have a question now. I just realized that in the baggie my husband brought home from work this morning besides some syringes, was some pills... I recognized them right away as SMZ's
http://www.drugs.com/imprints/ip-272-6228.html

Can we use these instead, and would they be safe for goats, I also wonder how much we'd give them. Recalling my days with horses, we used to give these to horses to fight infections instead of injections <injection medications were a last resource>. 
I remember we gave SMZ's daily to a mare who stepped on a fence nail and her foot got severely infected. Of course we had to give her other meds, but this was to help with the infection.

My husband will be up in about an hour, and he might already know what he is doing <LOL>, but figured I'd ask just in case, as I warned him last night we needed to get them on something ASAP.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: What to use?*

Oral antibiotics are normally reserved for bacterial GI infections in goats.. In the case of sulfas like Di-Methox, Sulmet, or SMZ, they're used orally primarily for the control or prevention of coccidia. They may (or may not) have some effect against gut bacteria. I'm really not sure how much of the drug would be absorbed into the bloodstream, frankly, or how effective it would be against footrot if it's well-absorbed..

Might work like a charm, but...well, just know that most folks aren't using it that way.

If it were me, I'd thank him kindly for bringing the SMZs and note how useful they'll be if one of the herd ever comes down with a bad case of coccidiosis one day...and then I'd say "So, when are we going to the feed store for antibiotics?"

 LOL


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

I tried to get to the feed store before they closed, and didn't happen! UGH! I did give them each a couple of SMZ's to get them through the night. I'll be able to get over there early tomorrow.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to nip this in the bud. I wish we had another pen built so we could isolate, but the only place we could do that is in our backyard, and I am saving that spot for when the does kid - I don't want the kids in the pen until this stuff is gone.

I've been packing their feet with absorbant pads and thrush xx because the biggest issue is dirt/poo getting lodged in there. It seemed to really help before, but I ran out of animalintex and I am using surgical absorbant pads that I had on hand. 
I can't wait to get these two on pen, hopefully it will help!
I just feel soooooooo awful  I love my goaties, and my preggo doe is just soo....tolerant. She will just lay down and let me work on her foot, but it hurts her. She looks at me with those trusting eyes, and I give her a cuddle - she puts her head on my arm, and sort of 'snuggles.' She's such a sweet little girl, I hate that she is going through this.

I put Thrush xx on everyone's feet tonight whether they needed it or not, except for our youngest doe - I'll get her first thing in the morning, and repeat with everyone as well. I'll do it 2x a day if I have too, or more!
I would LOVE to have a footbath to make them stand in, but can't figure out how I should make one.
I could construct a 'frame' out of pallets next to the barn, but not sure what I could use to put the medicine in? And what would I use in it if I am able to construct one? 
Would a foot bath be more affective than spraying down each foot, holding it off the ground for a couple of minutes to let it set in? As that's what I've been doing.....time consuming, but they are worth it.

The ground is drying out too, so surely this will help?

Oh, and I am going to MAKE my husband start helping. He's not thought this as a huge deal, because he doesn't deal with it. Tomorrow that changes! I usually treat everyone after feed time. Tomorrow we're doing it before he goes to work so he can 'really' see what we are dealing with. I've not minded doing everything, but he needs to know first hand what we're dealing with. 
We've dealt with contageous illnesses before, especially in horses. 
Years ago, we weaned our babies - had 17 weanlings in the barn, and about 40 mares out in pastures around our barn that we looked after <they stayed out 24-7 summertime>. the farm was moving horses around to get ready for the November sale prep. They moved 3 weanlings out of our barn, and 3 others into their place. One of the weanlings was getting injections, but NOBODY told us why, he also wasn't allowed to go out during the day.
Well, the 'closed mouth' caused an outbreak in our barn. 15 of 17 weanlings became sick ---- STRANGLES. 
It was HELL. High fevers, abscesses, snotty, dripping noses, raspy breathing, lethargic, etc. Other parts of the farm got it too, and it was so bad, they wouldn't let ANYONE near the stallion barn. 
Lots of temperature taking, injections, oral meds, etc. and we felt defeated every single day.... BUT, finally we got EVERYONE healthy again. It was NOT easy.

SO I know we can eventually over come this, but just getting the right treatment. And I hope this is something that won't always come up as we've never had animals at our place before.... All I can say is, I really can NOT wait for winter to come! I hear this stuff doesn't do well in cold temps....


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

CMJ is right on the money about the SQ in the armpit. Much easier. They don't seem to mind it there. Mine are doing so much better but guess what? It's POURING down buckets right now. :sigh: :veryangry: ray: :help:

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



mrs. lam said:


> CMJ is right on the money about the SQ in the armpit. Much easier. They don't seem to mind it there. Mine are doing so much better but guess what? It's POURING down buckets right now. :sigh: :veryangry: ray: :help:
> 
> Gina


I'm glad they are better, but very sorry about the rain  We got lucky with no rain yesterday, but looks like we may get some on Sun.

I am waiting for my daughters prescription to get filled so I can run to town and get the penicillin. Her doctor changed the method they use to fill <instead of giving a prescripton to me, she does it online>, well they said it has to be approved by the doctor <it's for ADHD - and WTH? THe doctor is the ONE WHO SENT IT IN! SHEESH!>. So as soon as it's ready I can get into town.

I am just at a loss though. Tomorrow I am stocking up an aersonal at TSC. 
The two does are so sore  I cleaned all the goo out of their feet, cut as much as I can which isn't much because I only have scissors for cutting since nothing else will fit down in the affected area, I sprayed it out real good with bleach/water/soap and put a thick layer of paper towels down to absorb - dried it out the best I could with paper towel, and applied thrush xx <now in a spray bottle YAY! so much easier to use now!>.

Now my other preggo doe is walking a little off on her hind right, could be a little hoof scald there, I hope she doesn't have hoof rot.... :hair: I've been cleaning feet <using bleach to clean the hoof pick between goats>, and applying thrush xx, so hopefully it will get better.

Molly - the rescue doe is walking a little off, but her front left is looking real good, the reason she's off is she needs the entire heel trimmed away.

BTW, I am ready to :hair: it's just so frustrating. And for someone as knowledgeable as my husband is with horses, he's been no help with this issue, as I've mentioned somewhere, I am the one dealing with the feet, so he really has no idea how big of an issue this is becoming. TODAY I am letting him do the afternoon treatment. He needs to see first hand what we're dealing with.

I'm going to keep the hoof packs off now that the ground is drying out, apply thrush xx a couple of times a day, and try get the rest of the dead stuff cut away.

If Molly can overcome the 'h*ll' in her front foot, then I know we can overcome this. But again, it's just so frustrating. The preggo doe with the rot isnt letting it stop her - the minute I let her out of her stall this morning, she went straight over, jumped the creek and spent hours browsing.
The other doe isn't doing so well <not preggo>, she doesn't go out to browse, seldom grazes, she does linger around the hay rolls off and on through the day/night and I've been giving her a little grain but not too much. She lays down a lot, if she isn't laying down, she's standing on the rocks that my husband put around their barn, she seems really depressed with her foot bothering her, and it's heartbreaking knowing what we're up against. She perks up for grain, and treats though! I am keeping a close eye on her, and will feel so much better when she is on penicillin <I did give her SMZ's this morning>.

Thanks for listening to me vent.


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*

It feels good to vent sometimes. Knowing someone else is dealing with the same thing. I haven't had any hoof scald in awhile, but the hoof rot drives me nuts! :GAAH: 
I'm going to try zinc next. It's supposed to help with hoof problems. We shall see.

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: What to use?*



mrs. lam said:


> It feels good to vent sometimes. Knowing someone else is dealing with the same thing. I haven't had any hoof scald in awhile, but the hoof rot drives me nuts! :GAAH:
> I'm going to try zinc next. It's supposed to help with hoof problems. We shall see.
> 
> Gina


Yeah it does, and knowing how common this can happen, so it's not a 'rare' thing I am dealing with. But sure wish no one had to go through this.

I am getting ready to head to the feed store in just a few minutes to get the pen. 
Then... I think I am going to find my daughters green finger nail polish to paint my fingernails so they will all match the green of the thrush xx!


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

:ROFL: I never thought about nail polish. We had a storm blow through earlier and then it cleared up, now it's pouring again. At least it smells good. (I love the smell of rain. Much better than Foul X or Kopertox.)

Gina


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

mrs. lam said:


> :ROFL: I never thought about nail polish. We had a storm blow through earlier and then it cleared up, now it's pouring again. At least it smells good. (I love the smell of rain. Much better than Foul X or Kopertox.)
> 
> Gina


I kept looking at my fingernails and thinking, I need some green nail polish so my nails don't look like they have some kind of green fungus or something LOL!!!

I am sorry it's been raining a lot your way today, I do agree with you on the smell of a fresh rain! Before this hoof rot stuff started getting out of hand, I loved the rain - cools off a hot summer day, plus I love falling asleep listening to the rain... 
I'm sure we'll have some rain here before the weekend is over.

It was a beautiful day with lower humidity - it was 90, but didn't feel so awful.
My husband trimmed some feet before he had to go to work, and was able to open both does feet up around the hoof rot more. I can't wait until we get some hoof rot trimmers and a knife! It'll be so much easier I am sure!
We decided to wait on giving the pregnant doe any penicillin. She's getting around fine, just has a limp and is sore. She still jumps across the creek to browse in the woods, grazes, so hopefully she will improve without needing meds.

The other doe, however has been really down in the dumps the past few days. She just seemed so miserable, and really sore.
After my husband trimmed her we gave her 9 ML of penicillin.

I went out to feed about an hour and a half later. She still seemed down, but once I offered her grain she perked right up, and seemed so happy. 
We had cut her and another doe back to almost no grain - they have plenty to eat right now, they are full grown, and not pregnant... 
Anyway, she seems to feel better, her foot is still sore, but she's walking a little better tonight. She really perked up a little while ago when I took them out some raisins  
We'll give her another shot in the morning and evening. BTW, my husband gave her the shot in the skin behind her leg where you all were talking about - she didn't flinch, didn't move at all. I really expected a fight, but nope...


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