# Better Pooch test pics I hope!



## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Here is the ones I said I would try to take today. I hope they are better. I hope she is not pregnant because they will have to be aborted, If my vet will give me the stuff to do it with. She is suppose to be five months old and if breed she is breed to a nubian buck. :GAAH: I could just tell people off who does such crazy stuff like put a little pygmy in with a big nubian buck, what is wrong with people. :shrug: Well anyways I truly hope she is not it will break my heart to have to do this to her. I have only had goats for three weeks and this is just one thing I didnt want to face.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

sadly she does look bred. if your vet will give you the lut i would do it. Best case scenario you will have a doe in raging heat for about three days. Keep her away from any buck. If she is bred you will find one or more little pink babies in the pen. if you do abort her get her on ten days of pen and she should be fine. Her mothering instincts will more then likely take over and she will look for her babies for a few days, she may even let down a little milk. We have had to abort a couple of does simply because they escaped or the wrong buck got in with the girls. 
beth


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm kinda thinking she looks bred. Her vulva is unusually long for only a five-month old pygmy. Poor girl!  I too hate it when people do crazy things like that. It's different if it was a total accident (it's happened to us before) but to do something like that intentionally, is sad. 

How far along would she be? Do u know? If she's not too far along, I've heard Valbazen de-wormer aborts kids, not sure if it always does though.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I thought she looked bred too. I thought I'd wait and see what you (pros) thought before giving any rash advice. That's sad.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

go to the vet and ask for Lutylase.............I think you have to give it to them like a week after..exposer...........but ask your vet ...........the time frame.....it it only recommended in a small time frame ,,so call your vet right away and tell them when she was exposed............


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Gosh this is a hard one...she looks bred, but for some reason i'm just not wanting to say she does. I don't know. There is definately a good chance she's bred so it would be for the best to abort the kids. Sorry you have to go through this.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I personally think she's not :?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is better to be safe .........then sorry.......right girls?

you cannot say later ,if she is pregnant................" Oh no.................I should of.".............?
It will be to late.......the shot in cheaper than maybe losing your goat.~!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok this is what I was told by the woman that I got here from. She could be two months along, cause that is how long the woman has had her and she has had her in with the buck. Why would you do something so silly. Im setting her about ready to cry, my boy is begging me not to. He said mom we can pray for her and ask the Lord to help her. So then what do you say to that. She could be older than five months im not sure she didnt seem to know anything else so who knows. I will try to post a pic I got of her whole body maybe someone will know how old she is. I just dont know what to think other than she is probably two months or more along already. :tears:


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

It is better to be safe than sorry...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

call your vet right away and ask if it is to late or not to give her the shot?

If it is to late ...............there is nothing you can do other than,,,,,pray ray: 

Hopefully you will not have to do a C- section on her when she kids..............
It is not cheap and it is hard on the doe.................

But if it was a big buck I am afraid it might be the case here.........................

2 months or so with a big buck........oh man .........that sounds like she could very well be pregnant.................... :doh: 

Like everyone says how could someone be that ignorant..................to put a baby in with a mammoth of a way smaller breed size......... :tears: 

Call the vet sweety...........and find out.............. :worried:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I agree too, but then again. . . . . we had a pygmy doe who kidded at 14 months w/ not a single problem. She was about the same size as your doe (a VERY small pygmy doe w/ "small" bloodlines). We didn't know she was preggo until it was too late to do anything about it.

*Oh, our pygmy doe was bred to a pygmy buck. . . . that's different. Sorry! I sure hope it's not too late. Do u have a good goat vet? Or at least a decent one?


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

capriola this doe is bred to a Nubian buck . . .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> capriola this doe is bred to a Nubian buck . . .


 Oh.................... :worried: .......... the thought of a nubian buck is so scarey...................

bred to that baby...............


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

NUBIAN? I missed that!Some people :hair:


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

scalping is not christian . . . . anyother ideas? jking


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

I guess I will call the vet. But I live in a very poor county and who knows if he has anything to do with farm animals, he is my dog vet. Im very :veryangry: at this woman. Im very depressed and worried. Why o Why me.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally do not think that she is preggers. I have a May 08 kid that is about the same size, and her cha cha looks exactly like that and she has never been bred - or lived with bucks. She is very elongated in the back end like your girl.

I would think - being that "far" along if she was pregnant there would be obvious signs of pregnancy - udder, cha cha swollen, kids felt on palpatation.

Have you considered having an ultrasound done? OHHHHHH _------- There is a blood test - look on my website under links -and I have the website listed. They only need to be 30 days pregnant for it to show up. I would say do either an ultrasound or bloodtest before the lute!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I would think - being that "far" along if she was pregnant there would be obvious signs of pregnancy - udder, cha cha swollen, kids felt on palpatation.


 she at that stage..... if she is preggo.......... would not be showing especially bag udder,development until the last month of pregnancy,,,,her cha cha may not be swollen at this stage (2 months along)............... if I read it right .........when and how long she was exposed and how far along she should be?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

PygmyGoatGirl.....let us know what you find out............


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

PygmyGoatGirl said:


> He said mom we can pray for her and ask the Lord to help her.


I would tell him that God brought this doe to you so you could do the right thing for her. It would be terrible to have to explain to him that God took the doe home with him to heaven because she was bred to a buck that was too large.

That is just my take on it. I am sorry that you have to face this problem because of an irresponsible person.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I thought that for ff anyways, the udder doesn't start developing till about three months or so. . . . so if she was w/ the buck two months, then she wouldn't really show in that area yet. . . . just what we've noticed though with our first-timers, every goat is so different! I sure hope she isn't bred.

Here's a website to get blood testing done. http://www.biotracking.com/ I haven't used this, not sure if it's the same one that's on Allison's website. I know of a breeder who has used this and says it is very nice. The test itself is only $7.50. . . . unless you know how to draw blood I would try to find someone in your area to draw it for you, (maybe try an ad on CraigsList, I've seen ads on there like that before).


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

The lutalyse would be the best option, and it can be given at any point in a pregnancy you do not want...2 cc is what would be needed to abort, she does look to be the same size as my 6 month old doeling.....good luck.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I am sorry - for some reason I thought this was the other goat that we were talking about trying to figure out if was pregnant that would be due next month - MAJOR blonde moment.

How long have you had this goat? I would definately do biotracking before lute - but that is my opinion. Especially in that young of girl - I would hate to put her body through that.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Well vet is closed so will call tomorrow. I think that I will look into getting a ultra sound. I would love to do the blood test think but I dont know nothing about taking blood. My son believes in prayer and he believes that prayer would take care of this problem. He doesnt believe in abortion at all. He does understand that the buck was to big and that she could have complications but he believes that God controls all situations. He isnt a little kid he is older he has strong believes. But anyways that is what I will do call tomorrow. Wish me luck. I cant believe this is happening to me.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If the ultrasound and bloodtesting are an option for you , go for it....better to know for sure before any drastic measures are taken...if it is just a "dog/cat" vet, they would still know how to ultrasound for pregnancy, regardless of the fact that this is a goat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

liz ....................... I agree.................. :thumbup:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

personally, if it was my doe - I would definately do the ultrasound and/or blood test. but that is imo


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> My son believes in prayer and he believes that prayer would take care of this problem.


 I know your son has a beautiful way of thinking ,and I respect his opinion............ but sometimes the lord ...................taketh away to.........


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
- - - - - - - - - -
I like to think of this "joke" to remind me that answered prayers are not always supernatural miracles that change the laws of physics, but rather God putting people in our path to help us. Even people on a message board and vets. 

I, too, think you should talk to a vet. I do hope the best for you, your son, and your special little goat.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I must admit, I am not a religious person, and honestly steer pretty clear of religion - but that "joke" that was posted is so very true for anything that we believe in. Every day - every person that we walk past or speak with, was put here to teach us something, learn something from us, or just to say hi. 

I really truely hope that everything works out in the way that you hope for. I will be thinking about you all :hug:


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

I hope I didnt offend any one with my sons beliefs. Im not trying to push religion on anyone. Im going to do my very best for her. I love this goat and it makes me very sad. But I do appreciate all the replies and the help. Thanks


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I like to think of this "joke" to remind me that answered prayers are not always supernatural miracles that change the laws of physics, but rather God putting people in our path to help us. Even people on a message board and vets.
> 
> I, too, think you should talk to a vet. I do hope the best for you, your son, and your special little goat.


 :thumbup: we all try to stick together , :grouphug: ,and we try to help each other in the time of need ....we are here when you reach out your hand,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and we give you the best advice we can to help, if someone doesn't want a certain advice given ,,,,,,,,,,, all's we can say is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we tried............. :grouphug: ray:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh hunny, you did not offend anyone - please do not think that - we all have our own beliefs. 

A great man told me when I was in Italy having tests run on my son when he was 15 months old, that he was an ordained minister and wanted to know what my religious beliefs were. When I explained my thought process and waht not he told me that he really didn't care what I believed in as long as I believed in something. That everyone needed to have something to pray to, someone to connect with - and I strongly believe that.

Your son is very connected, and that is a BEAUTIFUL thing. Don't eve let him sway from that  And as Toth said - we are all here together - so hold your hand in our heart, to help you and to be there for you and your son! :grouphug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I hope I didnt offend any one with my sons beliefs. Im trying to push religion on anyone. Im going to do my very best for her. I love this goat and it makes me very sad. But I do appreciate all the replies and the help. Thanks


 no .........you didn't offend me,,it is just we care ............and I respect your sons believes,don;t get me wrong..............but sometimes it is best to get the little girl some kind of help,and have peace of mind to know if she is,,,,,,,,,,,,, or isn't
and what is the best method in helping her.............. ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

kelebek,,,,that was a beautiful way to put it.......... :hug: :grouphug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

rebelshope,,,by the way ,,,,,,,,,,,,good joke,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,very cute :ROFL: 
I enjoyed that.......... :thumbup:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks toth - I really believe that. No one understands us "nutty" goat people better then other "nutty" goat people :shrug: 

We come here to share, to ask for help, to talk about good and bad - and we just all need to work together and support one another - even if it something that we do not neccessarily agree with, we need to support the decision and do what we can


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

I was not offended, I hope you weren't offended by what I had to say either. I wanted to support your beliefs. You asked how you could explain it to your son. I was only trying to help. How God works in our life is very difficult to understand sometimes. Sometimes we can not even see where God is in a situation, until we are through it. I thought that story kind of pointed that out. 

I would never try to insult anyone for their beliefs- I hope I didn't.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

No offense taken....Allison is so right, don't ever let anything sway you from your beliefs. We all love our animals and when it is "human error" that causes something to go wrong with them, we should try and do everythig possible to help them....even if it means ending a pregnancy that will no doubtedly cause the health of the mother to be compromised. It is a shame that you had nothing whatsover to do with this little girls predicament and have to be the one to solve it. I pray that your vet can see her to do the sonogram and he finds "nothing"


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

liz..................I so much agree :hi5:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Maybe an explanation of "free will" would help your son. God gives us all the tools we need to make good decisions...sometimes we choose another path...sometimes that's the wrong path and stuff happens (like the doeling getting PG) and we have to fix the problems that result. We are also protectors to lower species...if we put them in dangerous circumstances it's our responsibility to fix that asap. Tell him humans put her life at risk, humans have to save her, God sent her to you to save her life. Now I'm going to cry a little.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Well I called my vet this morning and guess what he is out of the office untill 10-7-08. I went down to feed this moring and she had some kind of white stuff on her vulva it was even sticking in the her hair beside her bottom. Do you think this is anything to worry about. She has been swinging her tail some. But I guess I will try to contact someone else. The only bad thing is the vets are farther away, and alot of them wont take new paitents. I ran into that before when I finally settled on the vet I got. 

I wasnt offended by anything that was said, I think each and every one of you are great. I appreciate the help greatly. I know everyone believes differently, me and my husband does. I liked the joke I thought it was very cute. But will update later if I find anything out. Oh by the way do you think valbazen would work, cause I probably could get some of that. Thanks


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

a white discharge can easily be a heat. And the wagging of her tail a lot is also a sign of a heat.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Oh good, maybe she's in heat! That would be excellent! :wahoo:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> thanks toth - I really believe that. No one understands us "nutty" goat people better then other "nutty" goat people :shrug:


 your welcome...................yep no body nuttier LOL :greengrin: :ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Oh by the way do you think valbazen would work, cause I probably could get some of that. Thanks


 Oh my....I do not know if you should rely on Valbezen to abort,............ what if it didn't abort .............but just did damage to the kid and was born with defects or ???

what does everyone else think?

PygmyGoatGirl............. I can't believe the vet is gone until 10-7-08,d a r n it,that is not fair, but here if our vet is gone they usually have a fill in..................are you sure there isn't a fill in vet available to take his place if the normal vet is gone?


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Here is what the answering machine said, sorry we will be out of the office untill Oct 7,2008 if this is an emergency find a phone book and look up other vets and call them. Kind of a very aggravating message I think.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I think I would take the vets advice. I would find another vet PERMANETLY. Talk about unprofessional and lacking in ethics. That is totally inexcusable.
crocee


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

We don't have nice vets around here . . . Lewiston Veterinary charged me 70 bucks to drug my mare (She did not need druggin by the way, we've done this before she didn't care. and I told him soo!!!!) and reach in and feel for foal. my vet bill was over 200. grrr . . . .


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

That would be frustrating. Well, I would draw and send blood work - and if it is negative you know that she is in heat.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Well I got lucky--- the lady who owns the stud is actually a vet. assistant, and she is like the best neighbor a person can have . . . We've been trying to breed this mare for the past 2 years and we did an ultrasound in early August and she is bred!!! So I am very happy . . . I don't go to the vets in our area at all anymore. (they bout kick butt with their prices . . .) I ask our neighbor who basically knows everything . . .I haven't had vet bills all year .. . .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I think I would take the vets advice. I would find another vet PERMANETLY. Talk about unprofessional and lacking in ethics. That is totally inexcusable.
> crocee


 That vet should have his license taken away.................that vet does not care about animals at all...................... they should have a backup vet on call....for all hours of the day and night..24/7.................What do they think .............that the sick or injured animals can wait until they get back from vacation .......???

I agree with crocee....................Please find another vet.............


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok I called another vet in another county, he does do goats. I dont know how much knowledge he has in them but he does see them. But the woman who answered said he wouldnt be back in untill tomorrow morning so to call then. I do ask about the ultrasound and she did say that they should be able to do that. But I almost believe she is in heat today. She has some light discharge and she is flagging alot today. So who knows but I will call the vet tomorrow and talk to him. Thanks for all the help.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

PygmyGoatGirl.................you are very welcome..................good luck and let us know the outcome.............


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

You will know she is in heat by rubbing your hand up and down her back--- if she flags her tail while your doing this and if she still discharges then she is in heat. . . this is how I check my goats, it's been pretty accurate for me . . .but who knows.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> You will know she is in heat by rubbing your hand up and down her back--- if she flags her tail while your doing this and if she still discharges then she is in heat. . . this is how I check my goats, it's been pretty accurate for me . . .but who knows.


 I never tried that technique ,,but when my does become open again I will try it.though


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Have you found anything out yet?!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Good luck with everything Pygmy!

I agree about finding another vet - although I would like to point something out. 

I was a vet nurse for 8 years (just quit working in the clinics about a year ago - but I still do alot of things on my own and have a Vet friend to give me what I need). 

Vets, as with any profession, must also take a vacation, and must also have a "private life" so to speak. I know that we wish that our vet was there for us at all hours of the day and night 365 days a year, but you can not expect that from every vet.

Now should the vet have somewhere you can call for afterhours care when he is closed? Of course, imo. BUT, there is alot of liability that goes with doing that. What if you went to someone that he had listed on his answering machine that knew nothing about goats and something horrible happened - a person would ultimately blame the vet that the referal came from.

When I lived in Mississippi, my cell was the phone number listed for afterhours care. I would triage on the phone and depending on the case, I would make proper referal to where I thought that the best place for the pet would be - however, there was a time that I was out of service area (in the middle of the Gulf fishing) and someone tried to call me. I was heartbroken that I missed the call - however - I can not have my life ran by my work 24/7 365 days a week. I have to have personal time also.

I know that if I call my children's pediatrician, there is not an afterhours number of a doctor that I can call, it just states that if it is an emergency to go to the local hospital's ER.

Just something to think about.

But, YES, I would find a vet that specializes in goaties and also make a list of other vets that do do after hours care to keep in an emergency  This is what I have for my horses! I have 3 different vets plus my friend with their phone numbers listed on the fridge and these are ones that I know do afterhours care along with regular care.

Good luck!


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh I hope she was in heat!!! My girls are very vocal when they are in heat also.


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

kelebek: that is so very true. Vets do need to have their own time too. I think the phone message could have been a bit kinder but we need to remember that vets are human too. 

I am lucky that my vet office has many vets and so if one is not available an other is.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi all sorry its took me so long to respond. I didnt go into the vet because I truely believe she was in heat this weekend. She was puffing, very vocal, white discharge that when it dried it looked crusty, and Brutus was trying to ride her over the weekend. So I do believe that she was just in heat. I worried and did ask the Lord to let everything be all right, and then Saturday morning and Sunday all this was going on so I believe it was a sign. Im sure some of you think im off my rocker, and some of you may think I made the wrong choice, but at this time I do not think she is pregnant. Maybe I will live to regret my decsion not to take her to the vet and I hope not, but as of right now I think she is fine. Thanks for all the replies and the help. I will probably be seeing this other vet that I called for all my goat needs and my regular vet for my dogs. Thanks again.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Pygmy - 

I glad that things are looking better. It does sound like a heat - to me also. Hopefully everything will work out nicely for you


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It does sound as though she was in heat, all the signs and having your wether act like a buck is a decentindication of a heat, just to be absolutely sure though, count ahead 18-23 days, if she's indeed open, she'll come in again. And the rubbing down her back and having her flag isn't ALWAYS a sign of heat, I have 2 young does that think they are lap dogs, and will wag their tails as they climb on my lap and as I pet them.

For you to see these "signs" for 2 days, it really does sound like a heat, best of luck for you and yur young doe....just remember to mark it on the calender.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

:leap: so happy for you!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yah like i said before it does soudn like a heat --- what a blessing!

Note: when I pet my girls they STOP wagging their tails :shrug:


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

I am so happy to hear that she came into heat. All that worrying for nothing. :wink: Congrats on no baby


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Yes indeed a blessing. Im so happy that it worked out this way. I just happy that now I got over a year to worry about babies and stuff. Now when I decide to breed and its my ideal then I will be better prepared. Thanks again for everyones help and Im so glad I found this place. :stars:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Im sure some of you think im off my rocker, and some of you may think I made the wrong choice, but at this time I do not think she is pregnant. Maybe I will live to regret my decsion not to take her to the vet and I hope not, but as of right now I think she is fine.


 So glad she came in.......  ..........we may not all .......agree on things .........and have our own beliefs and decisions............ but we all will learn from our actions whether they be............ good or .........bad..... :hug:


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