# Emrgency, kid coming upside down, small doe



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

The only time ive had this happen i lost the kid, please walk me through. Doe is first time, accidental breeding, 1 year old, small mini mancha
I can feel the kid, nose, front feet. Upside down. No way I can reach in far to reposition.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Ok I figured out that it's the front feet of one kid and the head of another. They are both dead now I am sure.  I tried to get my hand in but she is just. Too. Small. There are no emergency vets that do goats, but there is one that opens at 8 so I'm taking her in then. Please pray that she's ok. She is not having contractions anymore and is resting.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

This kidding season has been really rough. I had no time for it this year - I'm pregnant and focusing on taking care of myself - so I didn't breed, but four of them managed to get pregnant anyway, three first timers and two far too small; I wouldn't have bred them by choice for at least another year.
We've lost four of seven kids now, and I also lost one of my favorite does to a dog attack. I've never had that bad luck and I feel like such a failure. :'( I need some hugs.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

milkmaid said:


> This kidding season has been really rough. I had no time for it this year - I'm pregnant and focusing on taking care of myself - so I didn't breed, but four of them managed to get pregnant anyway, three first timers and two far too small; I wouldn't have bred them by choice for at least another year.
> We've lost four of seven kids now, and I also lost one of my favorite does to a dog attack. I've never had that bad luck and I feel like such a failure. :'( I need some hugs.


Do you have a child at home or a friend with a child or a lady with small hands. Get them to go in there. I am sorry you have jad such a crummy year.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Just crossing fingers; have seen (and heard!!) this once, and that was ten times too many! mg:


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:
It’s hard when things don’t go right. Especially when there is nothing you can do and these things just..happen. We’ve all been through this and from my experience, it doesn't get easier when we lose a goat. But..the good news is..we learn every day and we get better at *goating,* better at raising goats, judging goats, milking goats, delivering goats, and caring for them. You did the absolute best you could do and that’s great
. :hug::goodjobconsole)


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Oh my. I am not able to find a vet open who can treat her within 2 1/2 hours drive. Why do these things ALWAYS happen on weekends?
I need help. What can I do? Oh God I need help


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I don’t think I can make that long a drive ... I did not sleep well at night and I don’t do long drives well at the best of times. Please help somebody! :’(


----------



## HungryFox (Feb 6, 2020)

If you are fairly certain that there is no hope to save the kid with head out, I'd grab a loop of baling twine.
This is a tough call. As herders, we need to aim to save our doe as priority.

Tie around the head. Even if you need to use arms and feet together, apply counter pressure to your doe/feet of the other kid.

No goat friends around you?


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Get a lamb puller or baling twine, put a loop in it, then wash up then lube up. Get as much lube on your hand as possible (remove any rings) squirt lubrication inside the doe too, you want slippery. 

Now, put that loop of twine around what ever is sticking out, leg, head, etc. hold that and gently but firmly go in as far as you can and push the extra parts out of the way. If you want, after you have the twine on, roll the doe over, that may help reposition her. Also, if you can get a hay bale under her so her butt is up, that will give you more room inside. 

Is there anyone around to help you? I feel so bad for you. (And your doe).


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

None with smaller hands or more experience than me.
I am absolutely certain both kids are dead. I honestly don't think I can get a hand in to tie baling twine around the head of the one, also I know for sure one of the two has to be pushed back if I'm going to get them out at all.
Please, is there someone I can call to talk to via FB Messenger? I don't have a working phone, mine just got run over, I was using hubby's but he needs it for work.


----------



## HungryFox (Feb 6, 2020)

Breathe!
Calm. Rethink, re center yourself.
This is terrifying and you are tired, but to improve the situation you'll have to rearrange your thoughts.
You will lose the doe for certain if you cannot get the kids out.

Pics may be helpful here.

Counter pressure on the does vulva to hopefully pull that head forward a bit so you slip twine over.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Here is a drawing. The birth canal is tight so Kid 2's head is pressed over sideways







on top of Kid 1's legs.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm heading to TSC for some birthing lube. Please say prayers for my doe. Her name is Shamrock.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yes, breathe! This is a very difficult situation, but you CAN do it! If they are two kids coming at once, you will need to push one back in order to get the other to come out. This is one reason there is NO room--too many kids in the passage! You will need to work and work with lots of lube to work your hand in there. If you are not strong enough, try to find someone who is. The kids MUST come out for the doe to survive. Try straddling her over a hay bale to keep her upright. This will make it easier to work than if she's laying down. Even if you can't find a vet, you need help! Find someone who can help you hold the doe and talk to her, and find someone who can help you reposition those kids. Best of luck to you and your doe.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can use cooking oil in a pinch..Elevate moms butt asap..it will help open some space..lots and lots if lube. You will need to be in a saving mom mode and hope for the best with kids..push baby with legs back while pulling other baby forward..loop a finger behind bent knee and pull one leg forward the pull like crazy..
Once that baby is out..loop wire over other babies head and pull front facing..then pull those legs. ((Hugs)) this will be hard but you can do it. Go slow. Work with mom..


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Looking at your drawing, I think it would be easiest to push Kid #1's legs back in. Fold them back if you need to but get them out of the birth canal. Then get Kid #2 out. See if you can get kid #2's legs forward under his chin and pull him that way, OR get his head out completely and then work the front legs out. Once he's out of the way you will have more success at getting Kid #1's head turned forward. Head back is one of the most difficult positions to work with and it won't help that the kid is expired. You need as much room as possible to get him out, which is why removing Kid #2 first is probably your best bet.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yes, almost any type of lube or lathery soap might be better than making a run to store right now.


----------



## HungryFox (Feb 6, 2020)

You don't have time to go to the store.

Olive oil. Dawn dish soap. Vaseline.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Prayers said for you and Shamrock!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

I always use Vaseline for these kinds of things if no lube is available. If you do go out, be sure to get Penicillin or Oxytetracycline or some type of antibiotic for the doe. If you have Probios, after this is over, you can give her that as well.
Wishing you both the best! I really hope Shamrock makes it through this!


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

But ... Shamrock is very small, right? And no cesarean possible? She will need lots of pain killer if you are going to do anything at all.

I am awfully sorry, but my advice is to give her a merciful shot in the backhead, just behind her horns, if she has any.

This is one of the times one wishes one never got any goats ...

And please tell us how things work out!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Push kid 1 back, find the legs of kid 2, get them forward or at least one, then pull that kid, even with finding 1 leg, be sure the head stays into position. And try to pull as mama pushes.

You may have to continue pushing kid 1 back, so watch that it doesn't block again. If kid 1 doesn't come out easy.

For the head back kid, that is difficult and you need to get the head forward and into position. 
A lamb puller is best, but is hard to figure out being new to you. 
If you can get your fingers into the kids mouth, pull it forward, be careful not to tear the doe with the kids teeth, so be sure to block the teeth with your hand.

Mineral oil will work for lube too.

No need to kill the doe.
Get a vet out, a C section may be needed, if she is too small to deliver. 
This is an emergency situation and to save the doe and maybe one kid, something needs to be done right away.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope everything is OK.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Now I am very worried.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

My sister in law came. She was able to get her hand in and we worked hard for a long time, but couldn't get either kid out. Shamrock did not make it either. :'(


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh no milkmaid..I'm so so very sorry
((Hugs))


----------



## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Oh my...Im sooo so sorry. That is an awful situation to be forced into. My heart goes out to you. You did all you could.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. 

You tried so hard.
Very devastating. :hug:


----------



## Hillsideboers (Sep 1, 2019)

I’m very sorry!!


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Oh no, I'm so very sorry!


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm so, so sorry that this was the outcome. I was sure hoping for better.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

So sorry!


----------



## J4Julz (Mar 3, 2020)

I'm so sorry- you do need hugs, lots and lots of them. Be kind to yourself, you did all you could within reason. You have yourself and your own baby to think about too. Hugs!


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I am so sorry for you. You did all you could.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry you lost her and the kids.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Oh my goodness I am so sorry! I had a FF kid two days ago and I thought I was dealing with this exact scenario. It was, of course, the middle of the night and I had no one to help. But in my case I was wrong and not only was it not upside down, all parts belonged to the same kid. And after a couple of terrifying minutes, she delivered the kid with only minimal help. I am so sorry you had to deal with this and I'm so sorry you didn't have a better outcome.There is absolutely nothing worse than having a doe in distress with a kidding gone wrong and not being able to help. You did all you could. 
How are you doing? Do you have other expectant does?


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

:hug::hug: Can we all learn something? How small was Shamrock?


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I am so sorry, Milkmaid. So sorry. I would not have known what to do. My heart really goes out to you. Sidenote: It IS ok to mourn. It IS ok. Let yourself mourn. (((((Hugs)))))


----------

