# Horns as a glimpse of a goat's past



## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

It was suggested that I start a thread on this topic. I would be interested to hear everyone else's thoughts and observations on this topic. When I first started with goats, we had a partner who was insistent that we should dehorn all the goats. It's a long story, but out of pure stuborness I refused. The partner is long gone, imagine that... it seems like we should have been a match made in heaven ... but the horns remain on every goat I've raised. Initially, my decisions may have been for silly reasons, but I found that I genuinely like nice set of horns on a goat. I love the way each set is as unique as the individual who bears it. Also, I began to notice variations in the quality and shape of the horn. Some of these goats I had full histories on, and others I didn't. However in comparing the oddities with histories I had, I began to realize some similarities between goats, conditions and horn oddities. Like a trees growth rings, it seems that horns can provide clues to a goats past.

I'll start with a normal set of horns. The goat, Spot, was one of my first bottle babies. This picture is from her first freshening when she was a year old. Spot has never been sick or starved. Her horns are uniform and smooth from the base to the tip. You can see that her growth rings create grooves, but they are uniform all the way up.









Look at the very tip of the horns on the goat in the bottom right of the one picture, and the poor white doe that was fortunately about to deliver in the other picture. The very tips of the horns have an unnatural bend to them. I see this most often in goats that fought usually untreated coccidiousus as kids.

















Here's one I haven't figured out yet. One horn was broken, and mangled, but the remaining horn has an unusual growth pattern. The middle has a bend that doesn't normally occur. My guess was that there was a change in nutrition at about 4-6 months (she's 10 months in the picture). I talked with her previous owner who said that was about the time he ran out of hay and switched to alfalfa pellets. The bigger does got the bulk of the pellets.









These two are sisters. They were quads. The one on the left ended up needing to be supplemented and never seemed to get enough food. You can see where towards the base her horn is flaky and has grooves that are not associated with growth rings. Her growth rings are also less regular.









The last one for now is one of my favorite sets of horns. I bought this girl at a kill auction when I was still new enough not to now better. She's been my best and favorite mistake. She's an absolute sweetheart that consistently gives me beautiful triplets. Her horns tell quite a story, unfortunately, the pictures don't show all of it. Running the length of her horns, there are periods of good, healthy growth, and periods of rough grooves that tell me she was undernourished. About six inches from the tips, both horns have very deep grooves. My guess is someone tried unsuccessfully to band these beauties.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Wooooow!


----------



## Erik_L (Nov 27, 2012)

Very interesting!

Thank you for sharing that. 

Erik


----------



## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

I have pictures to offer this thread. These are the horns of my Angora goat, Bailey, taken in late March. Excuse the blue kote all over my hands, I'd just treated a wounded chicken!

When I first got her, her horns were so weak and brittle that they would bend if I grabbed them. Considering she was a bit of a wild girl, I used her horns the first few times to catch her, until I got her leash trained. I was afraid I'd break a horn off, it was a horrifying feeling! They would flake and the tips crumbled, and they weren't at all uniform.

Her breeder _did_ feed her minerals, but I am certain she was missing something in her diet. When I got her, I offered her free choice minerals, a different brand (manna pro is what I use, the breeder used some mix made by their local feed mill).

The horn growth from the time I got her is now strong and smooth. Very thick and hard, with absolutely no flaking. Her hooves are in much better shape too, very hard. Before, they were unusually soft and had cracks.

You can see the change in the pictures and can see the clear point of change. The point in which I bought her, and her diet and mineral intake changed.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very interesting!


----------



## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

VERY interesting! i'll be looking at my girls' horns tomorrow!


----------



## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

This is a great topic. Unfortunately, every horned goat I have ever owned was terribly aggressive. We try to stick to the hornless ones, but it seems we get stuck with horned ones no matter what we do 

This guy is Noah. You can see from his right horn, how unnaturally it bends, that he had a VERY unsuccessful disbudding. His left horn became loose and fell off a while back, but is still growing. He's a very weird looking specimen...


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Katelyn, I think those may be massive scurs!


----------



## DLeeB (Apr 5, 2012)

I really like that you can tell so much from the horns. I also love their beauty. I owned horned pygmies many years ago. I once found one of my bucks with his testicles stuck between another one's horns. That's one of the reasons, we choose to dehorn now. I have several other reasons, but that one always sticks in my mind. That poor fellow was screaming very loudly.


----------



## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

ThreeHavens said:


> Katelyn, I think those may be massive scurs!


Pretty much! Like they were never burned at all! This was him at 8 weeks, you can see a bit how they a growing back. Disbudding can be very difficult at times...


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh I know, disbudding is very hard. As scurs go, they are beautiful ones


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

At about 2 mos she knocked off right horn.


Same feed & minerals as everyone else. Horn was loose in socket.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

What it looks like today,


----------



## jddolan (Mar 31, 2013)

I Agee I like horns on everyone,I just bought a boer doe from a friend who is getting out of goats so I bought the boer,they were happy we took her ,anyway she was dehorned,just don't look right to me,I'm used to horns


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Very interesting! I hadn't thought about horn growth relating to health but it makes sense. Just like horse's hooves. Not to steal the thread but how soon do you typically see horn growth if a disbudding is unsuccessful? My girls were disbudded about 2.5 weeks ago and so far they look great. Would I have seen any regrowth yet?


----------



## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Absolutely, I'm more aware of hooves are my indication of nutrition as that's how I was taught to look at (we dehorn our calves and disbud our goats). 

This is actually not just a noticed idea, it's also scientifically proven fact as well.  

Way to go!


----------



## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

I love the looks of horns! Goats just look naked without them to me... Too bad I chose dairy and they can't get sold around here unless disbudded. I always love looking at my horses and goats hooves and seeing the story they tell!


----------



## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Esther88 said:


> Very interesting! I hadn't thought about horn growth relating to health but it makes sense. Just like horse's hooves. Not to steal the thread but how soon do you typically see horn growth if a disbudding is unsuccessful? My girls were disbudded about 2.5 weeks ago and so far they look great. Would I have seen any regrowth yet?


That's great! No growth is always a good sign  But, sometimes it takes a month or so to see growth, because the scabs and holes make it hard to see. Wait until the skin grows back over and then it is easier.


----------



## veekay_1 (Apr 9, 2013)

Great thread! Very interesting info. So i have a question my 4 month old billy, his lil horns are like flaking and pealing. I've jus started raising goats and hes my 1st with horns intact. But is that normal? I love the look of horns on a goat.


----------



## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

Flaking and peeling horns are not normal. They should be fairly smooth and solid at his age, and could be an early indication of an imbalance. Does he have access to free choice minerals? If he does, it wouldn't hurt to have a fecal run on him to ensure that he doesn't have a worm or coccidiousus problem. Both of these would affect his ability to properly absorb nutrition. As I said in the beginning, all horns are unique to the individual and this could be normal for him, but it wouldn't hurt to rule out the possibility of a deficiency. (I adopted a doeling once with flaky, dry horns and in her case it was coccidiousus)


----------



## veekay_1 (Apr 9, 2013)

SCRMG said:


> Flaking and peeling horns are not normal. They should be fairly smooth and solid at his age, and could be an early indication of an imbalance. Does he have access to free choice minerals? If he does, it wouldn't hurt to have a fecal run on him to ensure that he doesn't have a worm or coccidiousus problem. Both of these would affect his ability to properly absorb nutrition. As I said in the beginning, all horns are unique to the individual and this could be normal for him, but it wouldn't hurt to rule out the possibility of a deficiency. (I adopted a doeling once with flaky, dry horns and in her case it was coccidiousus)


So i had a fecal done, he has coccidia. Im going to treat with injectable di-methox. Does anyone know the goat dosage and how long? It doesnt have a dosage for goats, and i wanna make sure to knock it out the 1st time around. 
Its crazy maybe it was luck or maybe horns are something to keep track of, but i know im definitely gonna start paying attention to the horns of goats i buy and raise to get more info. 
I was wondering if u have ever seen a pair of horns that have like nubby growth rings down the horn, and about 2" from the end of the horn is a sharp bend out? Im looking to buy this 2 year old boer doe and her horns do that.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have two goats with horns and prefer the hornless as they were getting stuck in fences and such for a while. I had to resolve this by adding an additional electric fence strand along the woven wire and cattle panel sections so they don't ever try to stick their heads through.

One of these was said to have been dehorns but the horns grew back in force like nothing was ever done. They look a little odd but are pretty much normal horns, not scurs.

The other goat is a doe who came too old to dehorn. I noticed that the horn that has grown since I have had her is a lot healthier and more solid looking. I give my goats a protein and mineral block as well as some grain based feed once per day in the summer and twice per day in the winter. This goat also has a much larger pasture at my place.

Conor


----------



## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

Here is an example of Beeps horns lets see if you can see the three events.










Now here is them highlighted. The red is from the move from MS to AZ complete with an entire diet change. Blue is from a change in mineral. Yellow is the pregnancy and birth of her first kids. She is six years old.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Fascinating Xymenah! And those are some beautiful horns too.


----------

