# breed the buckling to his mom?



## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

I have six Nubian does and would only like to keep one buck. My doe Penny gave me a very handsome buckling that I would like to use for my herd sire. Penny has a nice udder and gives over a half gallon a milking. I would be very happy to have more does just like her. Please share opinions on breeding her back to him. This will be my first breeding season as I bought all my does bred before.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That close of a breeding, I would only do if you plan to put them in the freezer. If you did keep any females, they absolutely would have to be bred to a buck that had no genetics whatsoever related to them.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

Also. that close of breeding may not even take


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Did you that elephants won't breed their mothers? There is an elephant sanctuary near me and they have one day a month that they are open to the public for education. I was talking to one of the keepers/scientists and he said they have done studies on elephants where they present female urine to bulls which gets them excited. When presented with their mothers urine they act surprised then quickly turn from it and walk away in disgust and embarrassment. EVEN if it has been years since they have seen their actual mother.

I wouldn't personally ever breed animals that closely related. Is there anyway you could have mom bred to a neighbors buck for a fee or anything?


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

The only other Nubian in my area - I got one of my does from. She gave me twin buckling this year with split tests. Certainly do not want to pay for that...Also I have all my does tested and would like to maintain a closed herd. These were two more of my considerations when I thought of breeding her to him.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

mlktrkdrvr said:


> The only other Nubian in my area - I got one of my does from. She gave me twin buckling this year with split tests. Certainly do not want to pay for that...Also I have all my does tested and would like to maintain a closed herd. These were two more of my considerations when I thought of breeding her to him.


would you be comfortable with selling or processing anything she throws from him? If so then it might be an option.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

when a bull is taken in for AI they often breed to the mother or full sister. this will show any genetic defects that the bull carries, if there are no defects the offspring are often superior.I know we are talking goats here but the same principle applies. so it is basicaly a crap shoot, if you are willing to risk it go ahead. you may get something special or you may get a three headed threep LOL!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

NubianFan said:


> Did you that elephants won't breed their mothers? There is an elephant sanctuary near me and they have one day a month that they are open to the public for education. I was talking to one of the keepers/scientists and he said they have done studies on elephants where they present female urine to bulls which gets them excited. When presented with their mothers urine they act surprised then quickly turn from it and walk away in disgust and embarrassment. EVEN if it has been years since they have seen their actual mother.


Fun fact for the day!!! love it!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well now, yes that is close breeding, but there is not reason why the breeding wouldnt take, and there is not really that much higher defect rate than there is out crossing. A lady I knew had a doe that was over 45% inbred, but she took grand champion in all the shows she went to, she was the most well put together doe in her herd.

I have come across parrot mouths and such with out cross breedings, and have yet to come across one with inbreeding. So just as much bad can come of out crossing, than it can with inbreeding.

Technically inbreeding and linebreeding are the same thing. It is called inbreeding when the results are not so great, and it's called linebreeding when the offspring turn out good.

I have a doe now that is about 30% inbred, and she is put together fairly well, her sire is her grand sire.


And yes, breeding them back to their dam or full sister will show any defects. 

If it's your only buck, go for it. I do generally try to keep the inbreeding at 6% or less, but sometimes it doesnt work that way.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

please excuse my ignorance but if I did breed the mother to the son- what percent line bred would the offspring be?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

The offspring would be around 17% inbred, give or take.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

very interesting- How is that figured? I was thinking it would be 100%


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

It is figured by how concentraited each individual goats bloodline is in the offspring. I have a doe whos dad is her grandfather as well, she is a bit over 50% inbred.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

mother son would be about 45%, brother full sister would be about 88% each common grandparents gives about 23% mother would have 2 common relatives, full sister would have 4.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oops, nope my mistake, the offsping would be 28.7% inbred.

And I had the doe above's % mixed up with a different one, yes Enchantedgoats, she's a bit over 50%


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

And breeding half brother to half sister would be 21.42%


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Kids only get roughly 27% of their physical characteristics from their parents. Most come from grand parents.

Here we wouldnt do a breeding like that, but thats us. Realistically you should be fine but dont be to surprised if it doesnt turn out.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> . I have a doe whos dad is her grandfather as well, she is a bit over 50% inbred.


so essentially this is what I would have also. only on the mother's side. the offspring's mother will also be her grandmother. In your situation a father bred his daughter correct?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I did a planned pedigree on my buck and his mother. And it came back 28.7% inbred. http://adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigree.aspx

Yes, in my situation it was father/daughter breeding. I haven't sent her papers in yet, so it may not even be 50%, I'm getting confused with this now :lol: I'm pretty sure they were both 30% though.....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

In your situation, the offsprings dad would be their brother as well.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I agree with enchantedgoats and little-bits: inbreeding can be great or it can be horrible, but any breeding can do that. I had a former Nubian buck with a horrible parrot mouth that was totally outcrossed! I have also had some awesome does that were the product of very close inbreeding (father/daughter and mother/son)


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

I would go ahead and do a line breeding. We do it all the time with cattle. We have (knock on wood) had hardly any issues with our animals here. Actually, the line bred stock is superior to those that are out crosses. For our goats we also use the same buck two years. He breeds the first batch of does, no relation. The second year he breeds all the original, plus his daughters. We only have room for two breeds and two bucks. Typically we only see improvement. But we also buy the best of the best that money can buy.


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