# Wether or not?



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Okay, after the responses on my other thread I'm seriously considering wethering my darling Pan.
I want him to stay my precious pet.
What are wethers like, bottle raised ones? At what age is it best to wether? When do bucklings become sexually mature, or capable of breeding?
Any advice would be very much appreciated.


----------



## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I band my bucklings at 4 weeks of age. Pan is old enough to band now. My wether, who was dam raised was super friendly..he has since been butchered. His sister, who is 9 mos old now acts like a bottle baby altho she was dam raised. I doubt your Pan will be any different after he is wethered than he is now.

Bucklings can start to be sexualy active at 5 mos...some sooner. Some say to wait til they are older to wether so as to let their urethra develope, some wether at 3 weeks. It all depends. I would say to wether him before the 5 month old mark tho! I had a buckling that the banding slipped and he started acting real bucky at 5 mos of age.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Keyword here: pet

Bucks make terrible pets and i'd only recommend them for breeders with 5 or more does. They smell, they're crude, they need more food intake, they urinate on themselves...they're just icky. Great if you need to make some kids, but as a pet, I would never own one. Wethers are great, clean, goofy, fun, much easier to handle, no smell, etc. 

What kind of wethering would you have done? I personally like banding and will band my bucklings at 7-8 weeks, but if you can wait til 3ish months old is about ideal.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Umm... thank you. But oh my gosh. I don't want Pan to ever be butchered!!! He's my baby pet!
I have no problem with raising meat goats, I've eaten goat and liked it, reminded me of venison. But I was warned that if Pan were wethered he stood a greater chance of being butchered if I ever had to part with him.
I know you didn't mean to scare me though .
I will just have to be sure that Pan is so talented that the zoo will want him LOL.
I am a little queasy about banding. I think I'd rather have my vet castrate him. I don't mind spending the money if it's something he'll do. I've called him but he hasn't called back yet.
Everything else you said sounds perfect and I think I'm resigning myself to the idea of Pan becoming a wether.
Thank you .


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

KW, I think that I'm probably going to have to wether Pan.
I don't know anything about banding and frankly I'm probably going to go with my vet's recommendation on it. He's not money-hungry, he and his wife have been friends of mine for years. If he says banding is best I will still have him do it. I couldn't do it myself, I'm a weenie LOL.


----------



## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Oh no! I didn't mean to suggest that you butcher your Pan! I was just telling you my story!

I like banding. it is fairly simple to do and I think causes less pain than surgery! Band goes on, they are uncomfortable for a few hours, then they act like it never happened. it takes several weeks for the testes to fall of, but to be sedated and cut open seems more invasive to me. When I did my buckling last year he didn't even cry! We banded him, let him loose, he ran to mom for a drink, laid down for a few hours and was playing with his sister three hours later! If you decide to band, just have a bottle ready for him!


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm glad you are thinking of wethering him! They are sweet hearts... still can be pushy (especially to people they don't know) but I think that is the case with all goats. Talk to your vet but I'm pretty sure he won't do a full out surgery under anesthesia (as one might with a dog) because of the danger associated with that for goats.....
more in a sec being called for dinner... lol
M.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I know you didn't mean that Kymi . You just touched on the same subject that was brought up to me when I suggested to someone that I would wether him in order to let him live longer (like dogs). I was warned that if I ever had to part with him that he stood a greater chance of being butchered if he were a wether.
But I think that the pros outweigh the potential con.
I'm still calling my vet so I can see how it's done right. I don't want to learn on my baby. And I'll definitely be there with a bottle and lovey scratches  .
Yeah, I think my baby will live a happier life if he's wethered. I still want to hear more input though, please.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree! Wethers make wonderful pets! And I band... very easy! We do it at 8 weeks but as Kylee said 3Mo is better..... I hope all goes well!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah, I think his fate may be sealed LOL.
I'm going to have my vet do it though. I'll blindfold Pan so he doesn't see and panic (I've done that with springbok for restraint and transport) and I might ask the vet to give Pan a local. It will be a learning experience for me.


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I believe the options would probably be cutting (not sedated) or banding or using a burdizzo... You would have you discuss the pros and cons of each method with your vet... You also want to consider at what age to do it... One is commonly advised to delay castration for a pet because of the probable reduction of risk of urinary calculi. I am not sure what is the best age and from what I've read there haven't been studies in goats but the idea is projected over from a study in cattle comparing the urethral diameter of steers and bulls... anyway that is something to ask about/research...
Have fun!
M.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I'll definitely post whatever my vet says, and about what we do.
I'm thinking it might be okay to let him grow up a little since he'll be in the house and not really exposed to my doe. And from what I've read my doe won't come in season till fall. So maybe summer will be the right time for Pan to loose his manhood. We never liked to geld horses in summer but that was because of the heat and flies outside. 
I'll be buying Pan Marigold spray anyway, just so he's never bothered by bugs.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am glad that you thought this through :hug: 

Yes, Pan will have a happier, longer life without the added stress of being a buck going through rut.
Goats are very smart too...I have a doe that I taught to "shake hands" for treats, I'm sure she's capable of learning other tricks but right now her focus is on raising her quads  

As far as his "fate" should you ever have to part with him, there are many pet homes as well as sanctuaries for him to live in...not all wethers go as food.

I band bucklings here at 7 weeks, mainly because I sell pets and wethers are wonderful pets...and I know the deed was done, I won't have a buckling leave here as a buck unless I feel he's a quality buck.

Pan's quite young yet but do go over your wethering options with your vet and in the mean time, there is a member here that does clicker training with her goats...DebMc I think she goes by, you may be able to do a member search and research her posts on this type of training.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Yeah, since Pan is not registerable I had originally thought to wether him, but after the butchering warning and how much I love him, seeing him through my barn blind eyes, I thought he could be a great herd sire.
But I would rather keep him as a happy pet and breed my future does to outside bucks, or maybe buy a herd sire someday, one that I'm not in love with.
Question: with cats it's well known that males neutered early grow very big. Does age of wethering affect a goat like that?


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I will say that I'm glad that Pan has dropped on both sides, so whatever method it wont be invasive.


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes in some cases I believe so... They will probably be more "feminine" looking though.....
M>


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

As long as it doesn't make them grow bigger .


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

You don't want him to be big?! :shocked: :greengrin: 
They are so much better big....
lol
M.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I only have so much room in my bed! :laugh:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

^LOL!!! :ROFL: :slapfloor: 
If he gets big you could always train him to be a cart goat


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

:slapfloor: :ROFL: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 
He is going to be spoiled rotten.... that much I can tell.... lol
and that's what I"m thinking JOY!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I want a wether to train as a cart goat.... but we don't have too much room soooo we only keep does for breeding  and how much would an ND be able to pull?


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Now don't laugh, but I'm already planning on training him to pull a cart. My Dad says he'll build it and my sweet old pomerainian, Max (who is Pan's friend) will ride in it when we go for walks.
And no, I'm not kidding (no pun intended LOL).


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Very Good! both of you! A goat can pull up to twice their weight... so you could definitely train them to do something.... Take a look in the working goat section! I've gotten my boys to pull everything from a christmas tree to a wheel chair! It's really fun!
M.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I bring my does for walks all the time! it is funny when people see them they think they are dogs! and around Christmas time I put antlers on them for our walks! LOL!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> I bring my does for walks all the time! it is funny when people see them they think they are dogs! and around Christmas time I put antlers on them for our walks! LOL!


OMG, Pan would look SO cute with antlers! And he already wears sleighbells on his collar :laugh: .


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

**off to take a look in the Working Goat forum** Maybe I will do something with my doelings! I want to do some clicker training with them too!


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

That's funny... I know all about people thinking they are dogs... lol... even when they are 200 lbs... some people..... I bet the antlers were really cute!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Zarafia said:


> J.O.Y. Farm said:
> 
> 
> > I bring my does for walks all the time! it is funny when people see them they think they are dogs! and around Christmas time I put antlers on them for our walks! LOL!
> ...


I want bells but my mom won't let me  I want little cow bells on my girls SOOOOO bad!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

naturalgoats said:


> That's funny... I know all about people thinking they are dogs... lol... even when they are 200 lbs... some people..... I bet the antlers were really cute!


They are! let me find some pics real quick!


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

That sounds cool Joy... though I think you should do natural goatmanship instead lol... I dunno... I just like it better than clicker training for some reason... seems more like a conversation....


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I like this high-speed on forum conversation thing! lol


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I already take Pan and Max for walks a short distance up and down my dirt road. And I even have a pair of dog antlers.
Oh yeah, Pan is going to get antler lessons starting tomorrow. Expect pics by Saturday!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

naturalgoats said:


> I like this high-speed on forum conversation thing! lol


 LOL me too! I am resizing some pics now!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Its like a chatroom LOL


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I'd try the antlers on Pan right now but he's still damp from his bath. He dries fast though so you never know.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Ok here is Snappy (Gingersnap) with her antlers on!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

And here she is in her 4-H costume!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Can you tell she is my favorite goat to torture?! LOL!


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

that is soo cute!!


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Can you tell she is my favorite goat to torture?! LOL!


lol....  we all have them...


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

HEHE!!! thanks!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

naturalgoats said:


> J.O.Y. Farm said:
> 
> 
> > Can you tell she is my favorite goat to torture?! LOL!
> ...


 Glad I'm not the only1


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

does the goat spot have a proper chat room?


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

OMG, those are PRICELESS!!!!!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Okay, Pan's going banannas. We need to go outside for a few minutes. BRB


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

kay


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I would guess the Chatter Box.... I was thinking the same thing....


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

btw are you on fb?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Nope....


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

nevamind


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well Pan lucked out today. His momma woke up at 4:30 and he got up with me, so he's getting a fourth bottle today. It will settle him down .
And I just weighed him, he's gained four pounds since last Friday. He weighed 8lbs then and 12 lbs now!
I'm on FB. Meridith Manning and my avatar is me on my black horse holding a redtailed hawk.


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

He's going to be big! (and I friend requested you...)


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

naturalgoats said:


> nevamind


Sorry......


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

naturalgoats said:


> He's going to be big! (and I friend requested you...)


I was just thinking that :GAAH: . Your friend request hasn't quite gotten to me yet, but i think I'll accept :laugh:


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

How long do goats grow?


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I mean in months not feet LOL


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Lol! I heard (with does) they mature at 3 years....


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I've always heard 3-4 years....


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Good then I heard right!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

OMG! I'd better not sell all my horse tack!


----------



## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I would go the wether route for you two peas in a pod :wink: I never band before 8 weeks to reduce the risk of UC (urinary calculi). I did a quick read of this whole post and the biggest thing that popped in my head was a huge adult sized Pan still sleeping in bed with you :laugh: 

Oh the breeding active time line is different for each goat but all of my dam raised bucklings are ready to breed by 7 to 8 weeks old (or at least in their eyes they are, even if they can't reach mom yet they get weaned). I have noticed that most bottle boys I have handled or seen do not seem to show signs as early. 

Hope you and Pan have a good nights rest!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

LOL!!!! That would be something to see!! A big ole goat sleeping in bed with someone!!!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Hey, a married couple I know used to sleep with a 100+ lb great dane every night. 
Pan is very attached to sleeping in the bed. I just say "bedtime" and he and Max run for the bed stairs and both take their places. Pan sleeps really well unless I wake up in the middle of the night, then I take him outside to pee. And if I dare to sleep late I'm woken up by goat hooves LOL.


----------



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Well with that image I'm off to bed... lol G'night!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

LoL!!! I slept with my goats onece... I had to sleep with the older two cuz the babies wouldn't let me sleep! They wanted to play! Hehe
Night M.!!!!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Here's something funnier though; My falconry and bird vet used to have goats. He was working on his truck one day, standing in front of it with the hood up, engine running and driver side door open. His goat got in the truck and put it in gear. He got out of the way just in time to see the goat with both front hooves on the steering wheel. He said all he could think of was what his obituary would have read :laugh: "Veterinarian run over by goat driving truck" :laugh:


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Goodnight Miranda!


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> LoL!!! I slept with my goats onece... I had to sleep with the older two cuz the babies wouldn't let me sleep! They wanted to play! Hehe.
> Night M.!!!!


Pan is surprizingly calm and good when we go to bed. If he weren't I might have to rethink things.


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

So glad to hear that you are considering wethering him. I was hoping that my post on your other thread would gently point out the benefits of wethering your sweet boy. 

I would have the vet band at 2 months. I have done it earlier with no ill issues but since you are in no hurry that would be a good age. I prefer banding since it is easy and there is no left over sac dangling around back there. :wink: 

I do not feel that banding increases his odd of bad fate should you ever need to sell him. I know that most meet buyers could care less. In some ways a wether has a better chance of ending up in a nice pet home where as a big ol buck no one wants has more chance of going for meat. 

I am sure that your boy will have a nice long healthy life as a wether if you choose to do so.


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks, Logan. Yes, my mind is made up now, Pan will be wethered. I think we'll both be happier that way. It's going to be hard to explain to my parents who wont want me paying stud fees, but hopefully my friend will go easy on me in that department.
I still want three milk goats, but Pan wont be part of the breeding program .


----------



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Just talked to my vet about wethering Pan. He's going to come out and do it in about a month. He says he does it by making a small incision and then pulling. Enough to make a man puke I would guess LOL.
I respect everyone's opinion on banding but I have a many years long relationship with my vet and I'm going to let him do it his way.


----------

