# What is the best feed and how much?



## Mt Nebo Goats (May 18, 2012)

Pack goats are new to me and raising them. I'm trying to prepare for winter and looking for hay, and prices. I don't know much about oat hay. Would this be good for goats or should I stick to just alfalfa? Also I have 4 goats how many bales will they eat in a day and/or week? Please let me know what you think about this topic. Thanks


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

The age old question. LOL
And many opinions. 
Carol has a book on feeding wethers.
Others on the group have found it
invaluble. I am having a hard time 
comprehending the physics of it all.


The Age of your goats will need to be known.
For young ones need different nutritional needs
than an adult needs.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm in SLC. The size of the bale makes a big difference. The stuff from IFA i used 3 bales per week for five goats. I bought some grass hay from down south and the bales are much larger. I am using only two bales per week. They cost me $4 per bale last fall. 

I am hoping i can find the same guy this year.

My guys all eat tree leaves and bark, grapes, and apples. Pig gets supplemented with calf manna to maximize his growth potential.


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## Mt Nebo Goats (May 18, 2012)

2 of the goats are 3+ years and 2 are 6 months old. Thanks for the comments.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Cant tell ya what to do but can tell you what I do 
We raise dairy goats and have them pretty much in all stages. Milking, dry, babies, bucks and now soon to be wether. Ages range from 10 years to a month old. My pack prospect is not yet 6 months old so will not be thinking about his diet until he turns 1+.
Here we have no pasture (no water) so we feed nothing but hay, and seeing how the bulk of our animals are milking we feed dairy quality alfalfa (just had our first semi load of the year dropped off on Monday . But even the ones who are not working (dry yearlings, kids, bucks, old ladies) get the same feed. From kid to dry yearling, we pour the feed to em to maximize growth. We dont over feed though. Bucks get the same feed but if there lesser quality bales (rained on, sun dried...) they get those first. OR we have been known to pick up a few tons of lesser quality, like a rained on 1st cutting, to feed to the bucks and the old retired ladies at a much cheaper price. We like to put weight on the bucks before breeding season, so condition determines feed for them. The old retired ladies (foundation does who are simply living their lives out in peace) will also get lower quality as they are not working and dont need it. Grass hay of any kind doesnt work for us and have never found anyone who knew how/when to harvest oat hay correctly. Both of these to us are at best filler food but more likely bedding.

Now in your case, sounds like you should have two different kinds of feed. A good quality alfalfa for the little ones and some nice grass or grass/alfalfa mix hay for the older boys OR maybe a grass/ alfalfa mix with some grain supplements for the kids? Others on this forum will be able to talk more intelligently then I in that department. 

As for amount, we feed 1 flake of alfalfa per adult (1 year and older) goat per day. With the milkers getting a little more then that if they are looking like they need it. This is more then enough for the bucks, old ladies and yearlings to put weight on. Weaned babies get 1 flake per 2 kids per day and they usually dont eat it all until they hit the 6 month mark.

How this translates into a grass feed, Id guess maybe double the mount to 2 flakes per adult goat per day during winter and summer if they dont have pasture to eat on. Otherwise stick to 1 flake. The average alfalfa 2 string bale will hold 16 flakes of hay and weights 85-100 lbs. Grass hay doesnt flake as easy as alfalfa, nor does it weight as much. We figure that a goat without pasture will eat 20 bales of alfalfa per year. So if you double it up with grass, 40 bales per adult. This is my opinion on the quest and I am sure there will be many others who will differ. Good luck!


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## Mt Nebo Goats (May 18, 2012)

Thank you for going into that much detail. All the info and opinions help! Thanks.


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## Mt Nebo Goats (May 18, 2012)

I was worried about how much hay I would need for this winter but it has been a pretty mild winter so far here in Utah, and probably the same for most of the state surrounding Utah. I stocked up on hay and have only used about 3 bale because the grass in my pasture feeding them pretty well along with the apple and pumpkins I have given them. With this winter being so mild I wish I had a little extra time to take the goats out hiking in the foot hills. It seems like perfect weather and a great time to go.


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## Mt Nebo Goats (May 18, 2012)

By the way I hope everybody has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Dave,

I read the rest of your post and it had some great info, thx.


Dave said:


> OR we have been known to pick up a few tons of lesser quality, like a rained on 1st cutting, to feed to the bucks and the old retired ladies at a much cheaper price.


I am wondering about this part. Sorry for the ignorance..so this is fine for goats?...I saw an add for 1 ton of hay that had been stored for a couple of years in a barn but is all broken bales and thought about picking it up but don't want to feed anything that wasn't good for them.

Thx

TOU


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A rained on hay just means it had to have been turned and re dried. It loses much of its green as a result and a little bit of food value. This would be acceptable rained on hay. Unacceptable rained on hay is hay that was rained on often more then once or baled to soon and not left to dry enough. OR maybe a hay that was left to long to dry. A good rained on hay with have a touch of green here and there but mostly yellowed stem and leaf. It should act much the same way a clean hay would. Leaf only slightly more brittle and stem a touch more course or dry. A bad rained on hay will be more brownish in color and will often times seem to be real dusty as you pull flakes apart. This isnt dust however, its mold. Flakes are often times hard to pull apart and act and harder then they should be. I suggest getting to know the smell of good and bad hay. Good alfalfa has a fresh alfalfa smell to it and smells quite good. A bad alfalfa will smell more sour the worse it is. There is also an over dried but clean rained on hay. A good way to tell this kinda hay is to see how badly the leaf turns to a dust almost. Often time if you grab a handful of over dried alfalfa, and loosely roll it around in your hand you will have powered leaf in your palm and just stem left in your hand.

Also just as important as the quality of hay is how the hay is grown. Often times when we run out of our hay we are forced to buy locale as we have our normal hay shipped in from hundreds of miles away. So if we are forced to buy locale we always ask if they have tested it, if not do they have any idea on the protein % and make sure there isnt cheet or foxtail in it. But most important, we ask if they use animal waste fertilizers OR run livestock on their fields in the off season. Most of this kinda fertilizer is from cow dairies. OR auction bought dairy calves are put on off season hay fields. Most cow dairies are infected with Johne's and this is a perfect way for a clean farm to become infected.


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Thx Dave...really great info, thx for continuing to edumacating me. 

While I have bucked a fair amount of hay bales in my youth...I was a ranch hand for a coupe of years, I'm not real experienced with acquiring or gauging/grading Alfalfa hay. So I guess, rather than make an error on my current ignorance & for as much as I will need, it probably isn't that much more costly to buy positively quality hay based on others recommendations.

Thx again!

TOU


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its hard to find a grower who really knows what they are doing. A good start is to find a grower with LOTS of land. You dont get big buy selling crap hay. At the very least you can try to find where they live by talking to ranch hands. Chat em up and let me know your needs. They may be able to sell to ya. Though a lot of the big growers do big bales and dont wanna be bothered with a ton here or there. But they will have insight into smaller quality growers.

Another good indication of a quality grower is IF they do test. Testing hay is a lot like testing goats. If you do it you mainly do it so you can show off the results. At least this applies to smaller farmers. Larger ones who are looking to export have to test.


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Excellent points...I am going to error on the side of safety. I don't think I want to rely on my limited skills and as I'm 40 minutes south of Charlie Jennings & Dave Suisse who have been doing this for much longer than I, I think I will just find out where they are getting theirs and buy from their sellers for now...even if I have to travel a bit. Thx again for the excellent education on hays though, it's much appreciated!

Have a great night!

Ken


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Charlie & Dave get theirs from the same source & were kind enough to share it with me. I drove almost an hour to get it but I was able to get some great grass hay for a reasonable price. It was worth the drive, especially as my two new to me boys were used to this hay. I hated to change their diet too fast or drastically if it can be avoided. This is especially true when they were doing so well on it.

Thx all for your input & thx to Dave, Dave S & Charlie J!


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