# Dam raising vs. Bottle raising



## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

I prefer to dam raise my kids. I have found dam-raised kids have a much better start at life if they are dam raised! They grow well, mom can teach them goaty stuff. I play with my babies every day, they are VERY friendly, and they dont get annoying and mouthy like bottle babies. And you know how a lot of dairy people think mom will be wild and not able to milk, I have found this terribly untrue. My moms milk well and they aren't wild at all! And, I think it is wrong to pull babies at birth so they never know their mom. I think it is also too time consuming to bottle feed! I ONLY bottle feed to save a life! Thats my opinoin, lots of people like to bottle feed...... 



Not trying to start an argument over which is best, 

What do you like to do?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Well, I dam raise when I can, if I have to I'll bottle raise I will or if I have a buyer that wants a bottle kid... I don't mind bottle feeding too much, I just don't 'love' pushy bottle kids :laugh: and everyone does what's best for them and their herd...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

All kids are dam raised here... I do supplement a bottle however with multiple births.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't bottle raise unless I have to. If Tinkerbell, Oreo, and Margaux had kidded a little later, they would be raising their kids instead of me. Ruby is a different story - she delivered triplets but can't raise triplets, I cannot fault her for that. She tried.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Around here it's the dam's job to feed her kids. Oh yes I will supplement if needed or bottle feed any orphans.
My dam kids are just as friendly too only not as obnoxious.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I dam raise, unless I'm doing prevention raising, the kids were rejected, or the dam turned out to be a low producer.
If the dam is a low producer I will pull the kid and raise it, just so it has the chance to grow to a good size, and obviously with rejected kid's, it's to save them. 
If my does can handle trips I'll let them, if they can't, I pull one to feed.
If they quad, I pull two.

With my boer kids, it does not matter if I dam raise or bottle feed, they're always as obnoxious! :lol:


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

nancy d said:


> Around here it's the dam's job to feed her kids. Oh yes I will supplement if needed or bottle feed any orphans.
> My dam kids are just as friendly too only not as obnoxious.


Thats why I like mom raising their kids! Bottle babies are SO annoying, but they are cute, LOL


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

My worst milker is bottle raised, so I can't agree with people on the bottle raising making them easier to eventually milk! She's also obnoxious and pretty wild. I don't know what they did with her when she was growing up, but it doesn't seem like much. 

I like my dam raised girls the best. They're very social and loving. I think it's silly to believe that you have to bottle raise to get friendly kids. 

But, to each there own.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I hate bottle babies...ok, so you're not suppose to hate...I despise them with a fiery burning passion! :lol: I will bottle raise if I absolutely have to. But hubby and I have pretty much decided that we will sell bottle babies from now on and not try to keep them. I DO understand why some people bottle, but it is not for me. It is too heartbreaking when they die (and, yes, they are more likely to die than dam raised) and I get too attached since I spend so much time and effort. I'm attached to my dam raised, but it's not nearly as hard on me.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

kccjer said:


> I hate bottle babies...ok, so you're not suppose to hate...I despise them with a fiery burning passion! :lol: I will bottle raise if I absolutely have to. But hubby and I have pretty much decided that we will sell bottle babies from now on and not try to keep them. I DO understand why some people bottle, but it is not for me. It is too heartbreaking when they die (and, yes, they are more likely to die than dam raised) and I get too attached since I spend so much time and effort. I'm attached to my dam raised, but it's not nearly as hard on me.


And bottle babies are very small! They are 10x smaller than most kids raises by mom! I will get a pic of my have-to-bottle-feed-to-save-her-life compared to my dam raised kids........ Its amazing with the difference between them


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Cade, your bottle kids must not have gotten enough milk, and grain. All my bottle kids grow just as good. Here's a picture of my buck when he was 8 weeks, standing next to one of my grown milkers.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

fishin816 said:


> And bottle babies are very small! They are 10x smaller than most kids raises by mom! I will get a pic of my have-to-bottle-feed-to-save-her-life compared to my dam raised kids........ Its amazing with the difference between them


I agree. I don't think most bottle babies grow nearly as well as dam raised. Now it could be like someone said and they don't get enough...but I'm doubting it. I tend to over feed rather than underfeed. BUT...I also get them on fewer bottles and solid food faster than a lot of you do. That is because I hate bottling so much. LOL Maybe if I did the 4 x a day feeding for a couple months it would be different. However, I don't plan on trying it just to see if it will make a difference either!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Free choice lamb bars make all the difference. They don't over eat on cold milk and there's not much extra effort on my part. Wash the lamb bar, throw in a cold pac and a couple gallons of milk, and they are set for the day. It's always there when they want it. 

I have one doe here that may never raise a set of kids. Her purpose is to provide milk for my family, period. Her kids are raised on cows milk and sold as soon as possible.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

^^ Exactly what I've always done, and to be on the safe side. I don't use the gel cold packs, I freeze water bottles or bags and toss them in 

Without enough milk, you'll never get the size you're after.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Free choice lamb bars make all the difference. They don't over eat on cold milk and there's not much extra effort on my part. Wash the lamb bar, throw in a cold pac and a couple gallons of milk, and they are set for the day. It's always there when they want it.
> 
> I have one doe here that may never raise a set of kids. Her purpose is to provide milk for my family, period. Her kids are raised on cows milk and sold as soon as possible.


The thing about the lambar with me is, I usually only have ONE Nigerian to bittle feed, I dont put my whole kid crop on it, so what is the purpose of putting a huge lambar out with one tiny nigie?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

The only reason a bottle baby will end up smaller than a dam raised kid is if it was not raised correctly. Take a look at last years ADGA National champions and reserve champs. I can almost guarantee you that every single one of those goats is bottle raised. They are not small at all. I have a Saanen kid right now that was bottle raised, born last April and she weight tapes 120 lbs. She is on the large side for a kid her age. I've seen plenty of dam raised kids that didn't get enough milk and were runty.

Most people end up feeding their bottle kids replacer and they don't mix it correctly, the kids don't get the nutrients they need from the replacer and end up small. Most people also end up feeding the amounts listed on the replacer bag which isn't enough for a normal kid. Coccidia and worm prevention is very crucial in raising healthy kids. If they feed milk, they don't feed enough or don't offer hay and grain early enough to get their rumens started.

I bottle raise all of my dairy kids, the Boers get to raise theirs but if they don't have enough milk or have too many kids for them to feed then I will pull or supplement one or two. My dairy kids grow just fine and don't end up too obnoxious.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Like I said...I'm guessing I just don't feed them quite right. But I'm not getting one to experiment with either

Carmen, Co-Owner Oleo Acres LLC, Nw Ks


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ptgoats45 said:


> The only reason a bottle baby will end up smaller than a dam raised kid is if it was not raised correctly. Take a look at last years ADGA National champions and reserve champs. I can almost guarantee you that every single one of those goats is bottle raised. They are not small at all. I have a Saanen kid right now that was bottle raised, born last April and she weight tapes 120 lbs. She is on the large side for a kid her age. I've seen plenty of dam raised kids that didn't get enough milk and were runty.
> 
> Most people end up feeding their bottle kids replacer and they don't mix it correctly, the kids don't get the nutrients they need from the replacer and end up small. Most people also end up feeding the amounts listed on the replacer bag which isn't enough for a normal kid. Coccidia and worm prevention is very crucial in raising healthy kids. If they feed milk, they don't feed enough or don't offer hay and grain early enough to get their rumens started.
> 
> I bottle raise all of my dairy kids, the Boers get to raise theirs but if they don't have enough milk or have too many kids for them to feed then I will pull or supplement one or two. My dairy kids grow just fine and don't end up too obnoxious.


We feed my one and only bottle baby land o lakes milk replacer. I give them cocci and worm prevention at a month old. I give Elsa 4 oz three times a day. And I have no idea why your dam raised kids arent huge. I just dont like bottle feeding babies, I think it is mean to the mom and the baby if they are pulled at birth, and the kids just dont grow well. All expereince I have with bottle babies is that they are too small. I just see nothing good about bottle feeding. Not trying to argue with anyone there.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Everyone has and does what works best for them and their herd.. 

There are plenty of dam raised kids that don't grow well and become runts.. And vice versa.. It all depends on how much milk they got.. Not all does make enough milk to provide for all their kids and some people just don't realize it(or don't care) and some people don't give enough to bottle kids... 
A LOT of dairy breeders pull their kids and bottle raise.. That is what works for THEM. It's not what works for everyone and not everyone agrees with it. And that is fine.. Everyone has their own opinion and methods to raising kids. 

I have never pulled a kid at birth, but have at a few weeks old for one reason or another.. I personally would feel bad taking the kids from mama after she worked so hard for them and was searching for them.. But that is just me  
I have had rejected kids from birth and I didn't see a growth difference in him then my other dam fed kids..


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Everyone has and does what works best for them and their herd..
> 
> There are plenty of dam raised kids that don't grow well and become runts.. And vice versa.. It all depends on how much milk they got.. Not all does make enough milk to provide for all their kids and some people just don't realize it(or don't care) and some people don't give enough to bottle kids...
> A LOT of dairy breeders pull their kids and bottle raise.. That is what works for THEM. It's not what works for everyone and not everyone agrees with it. And that is fine.. Everyone has their own opinion and methods to raising kids.
> ...


I know every goat master manages their herd differently. Like you said, i think it is mean to take the babes from mom. And I know some moms dont milk enough for quads or trips, so I bottle feed if that is the case. Just with my experience, bottle babies are smaller, and kids raised by mom are always healthier......


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

I dam raise, except I will have to bottle feed the kid I am getting from J-Nels farm because that's how they sell their kids.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I never said it was mean.. I just would feel bad  that's all I said

I also buy bottle kids... I bought two last year(doe and buck) and will be buying two this year.(doe and buck)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This is the age old war of bottle vs dam raised. Everyone should do what is best for them.

Remember to keep it friendly, keep it fun.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Despite my dislike of bottle raising I've still bought bottle raised kids. Quite a few of the big name farms out there pull kids. If I see a nice kid with the lines and conformation I look for I'll buy it whether it's dam or bottle raised.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> I never said it was mean.. I just would feel bad  that's all I said
> 
> I also buy bottle kids... I bought two last year(doe and buck) and will be buying two this year.(doe and buck)


Yeah I know, I just think mom needs to see the babies.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ciwheeles said:


> Despite my dislike of bottle raising I've still bought bottle raised kids. Quite a few of the big name farms out there pull kids. If I see a nice kid with the lines and conformation I look for I'll buy it whether it's dam or bottle raised.


I am buying two bottle babies as well.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> This is the age old war of bottle vs dam raised. Everyone should do what is best for them.
> 
> Remember to keep it friendly, keep it fun.


Trying to keep it as friendly as possible. I was just seeing what everyone's thoughts and opinoins on this age old war.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone! I know its a war on which is better, and I like mom to raise mu kids, and some of you like to bottle feed. It all works different for everyone. So thank ypu for your opinons!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

fishin816 said:


> And bottle babies are very small! They are 10x smaller than most kids raises by mom! I will get a pic of my have-to-bottle-feed-to-save-her-life compared to my dam raised kids........ Its amazing with the difference between them


I don't agree with that. Ebbie - my first bottle baby is stunted, but that was my fault. Kahlua is the same size or bigger than her pen mates, and she is 3 months younger than most of them. Raven, Little Bit, Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi all 4 are comparable in size to their contemporaries, as well.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, I was going to bottle raise kids this year, and then decide, but I quickly pulled all the math together and realized how much extra work it would be. So at 1 to 2 weeks, I separate mom and kids in the pm, milk in the am, and they are back together after I milk her in the AM. Works for me;-)


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I bottle raise and mine so far have been on the larger side and developed wonderfully. They are super healthy. Different strokes and all.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

GoatCrazy said:


> I don't agree with that. Ebbie - my first bottle baby is stunted, but that was my fault. Kahlua is the same size or bigger than her pen mates, and she is 3 months younger than most of them. Raven, Little Bit, Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi all 4 are comparable in size to their contemporaries, as well.


Ok well with YOUR experience they grow fine. Me, no


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

fishin816 said:


> The thing about the lambar with me is, I usually only have ONE Nigerian to bittle feed, I dont put my whole kid crop on it, so what is the purpose of putting a huge lambar out with one tiny nigie?


It is possible to make a single kid lambar  if you have a drill, get a one gallon bucked with a lid, drill one 5/8" hole in the top, and a very tiny hole above it to keep the flow going nicely. Pull the nipple through the hole, connect the tube, put the lid on, viola! Single kid lambar


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> It is possible to make a single kid lambar  if you have a drill, get a one gallon bucked with a lid, drill one 5/8" hole in the top, and a very tiny hole above it to keep the flow going nicely. Pull the nipple through the hole, connect the tube, put the lid on, viola! Single kid lambar


I think i will just keep her on the bottle........


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I prefer dam raised. I am with kccjer and janeen....too much work that I don't have to do :lol: but if needed I would, but let me tell you...._everyone_ in the family would have a bottle feeding time each day so I'd only have to do it once :lol: It's one of the benefits of having human kids


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

:lol: that's why I love lambars!  I fill them one to two times a day, change the ice pack, and walk away....! I clean it at night, fill in the morning, and the afternoon if they are bigger kids, and that's it


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> :lol: that's why I love lambars!  I fill them one to two times a day, change the ice pack, and walk away....! I clean it at night, fill in the morning, and the afternoon if they are bigger kids, and that's it


Whatever you do,it works. I have never seen such big beautiful alpines....truly, yours grow huge.I wish I knew your secret!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I have a very intense protocol! :lol: The key is loads of milk. Milk has the calcium they need to grow the skeletal frame, and with a lambar they grow big, potentially bigger than a dam raised kid as even does have their limits on how much milk they will produce, but with the lambar the milk is virtually limitless, if you keep it full.  I put a pinch of baking soda in the milk every day as well.
The next key thing is worming and coccidia prevention. I worm and start on prevention at 20 days old, and retreat and worm every 20-21 days up until 8 months.
The last key is alfalfa hay and the grain. The alfalfa is very nutritious and has the calcium they need as well. The grain keeps them growing at the same rate once you wean them (preferably at 3 months). I either like to feed them an 18% I mix myself, or a Boer developer pellet. I start them on grain at 4-14 days old, with the goal being to have them eating 2lbs a day before they're weaned and after they're weaned.
With all this done, you should have kids well over 100lbs by 8 months. My kids have gotten to 80lbs at 4 months old on a regular basis.
Coccidia prevention is the biggest thing aside from the milk. Even if you don't think you have coccidia, prevention should still taken.
And of course, free choice minerals from 2 weeks old, and always have a bucket of water out for them.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm going to try that this year for sure....I will still be dam raising if possible but I think I'll be more careful on how much time they spend overnite away from mom...I'll also start them on the alfalfa pellets early, maybe soak them? I'll try the same schedule for deworming and cocci too....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You can try and soak them, or leave them out dry. Mine don't like wet feed, they eat it dry. Play around with it, every kid is different


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Also, the same protocol works great for the mini breeds, just adjust the grain to a smaller amount.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> You can try and soak them, or leave them out dry. Mine don't like wet feed, they eat it dry. Play around with it, every kid is different


My pellets seem large for a young kid...you sure it'd be ok?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Can you take a picture? Some of the developer pellets I use are pretty big compared to others, it hasn't slowed them down though.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

So, I couldn't find a coin, oddly enough, but I found a spool of thread that was about as big around as a nickel :lol: this is the size of my current pellets.

ETA: never mind... I found some coins :lol:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> My pellets seem large for a young kid...you sure it'd be ok?


I've noticed my 3 kiddos eating out of mom's feed dish and they were going for the pellets, they are 5 weeks now..., they started a couple weeks ago actually;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...gonna send the kids out to get some pellets  :twisted: My DD just said "what do want?...some alfalfa pellets and 15 cents? You're so weird Mom" :lol: :lol:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You start them out at what age? Here are the pics I got


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yep, those look just fine for them.  I put a small handful in a very low feeder starting between 4 and 14 days old. What they don't eat, give to another goat, keep the babies feed fresh and available 24/7.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, will do. Thanks a bunch Lacie. I hope this makes any meat babies grow bigger and faster.
How much do you work them up to? I try to keep meat babies for at least 6-7 months.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I work them up to 2lbs a day per kid, before the time comes to wean them. The faster they are eating it, the better. Keep them on the 2lbs after weaning, the whole way through. If you breed at 8 months, continue grain for 3 more months after the breeding date, and start graining again 2 weeks or so before they kid, and continue graining through the lactation.
Even dam raised kids should get grain.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok so 2 lbs a day of alfalfa pellets only? Or add my (much argued about) sweet feed? I use 2 parts alfalfa to one sweet for my adults and it works well so far as I can tell.Would it work to use this mix from the start?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

BTW, my DH looked at me like I was nuts when I said 2 lbs a day per kid....:lol: He goes "I thought we were trying to _lower_ the feed bill?" :lol:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I have a very intense protocol! :lol: The key is loads of milk. Milk has the calcium they need to grow the skeletal frame, and with a lambar they grow big, potentially bigger than a dam raised kid as even does have their limits on how much milk they will produce, but with the lambar the milk is virtually limitless, if you keep it full.  I put a pinch of baking soda in the milk every day as well.
> The next key thing is worming and coccidia prevention. I worm and start on prevention at 20 days old, and retreat and worm every 20-21 days up until 8 months.
> The last key is alfalfa hay and the grain. The alfalfa is very nutritious and has the calcium they need as well. The grain keeps them growing at the same rate once you wean them (preferably at 3 months). I either like to feed them an 18% I mix myself, or a Boer developer pellet. I start them on grain at 4-14 days old, with the goal being to have them eating 2lbs a day before they're weaned and after they're weaned.
> With all this done, you should have kids well over 100lbs by 8 months. My kids have gotten to 80lbs at 4 months old on a regular basis.
> ...


 I ask what coccidia med you use and what wormer you use? My kids seem to be growing like weeds but I just want to prevent the coccidia and parasites from causing any problems .i usually have them eating grower pellets at about two weeks... Thanks!Can


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh, you could do just the alfalfa pellets, but to get a good growth you'd have to add to it.
I use a 18% boer developer pellet by itself for the 2lbs, or I mix my own grain concoction.
1/2lb calf manna, or a substitute of it
1/2lb 16% dairy grain, or 18% boer pellet
1/2lb alfalfa pellets
And you can do 1/4 of boss and 1/4 due cob, or
1/2lb sweet feed.

Or you could do 1lb of a 18% pellet, and 1lb alfalfa pellets if that works for you.

If you have 25 kids, you'd go through 100lbs a month for the kids. It goes further that you'd think at first thought. 

ETA: if I was going to do only alfalfa pellets and sweet feed, I'd do 1 1/2lb alfalfa pellets and 1/2lb sweet feed.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> I ask what coccidia med you use and what wormer you use? My kids seem to be growing like weeds but I just want to prevent the coccidia and parasites from causing any problems .i usually have them eating grower pellets at about two weeks... Thanks!Can


I use Valbazen for the first 9 weeks, then I go to Zimectrin Gold, or Cydectin or Quest gel as far as wormers go. 
For coccidia prevention, I use DiMethox 40%, Baycox, or Corid.

Valbazen at 1cc per 10lbs
Zimectrin Gold at 1cc per 50lbs (oral horse wormer)
Cydectin cattle pour on at 1cc per 22lbs orally
Quest gel at 1cc per 100lbs orally (quest is 4x stronger than cydectin)

DiMethox 40% at 1cc per 5lbs orally
Baycox at 1cc per 5lbs orally
Corid at 1cc per 4lbs or 6.25cc per 25lbs (mixed at 3oz corid per 16oz water)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow...it does seem like a lot. I'd probably do my sweet feed/ alfalfa mix since my sweet feed is 18% itself. I plan to raise at least 2 goats to process, so it shouldn't eat me out of house and home right? :lol: Well, add to that my two lactating does I hope to have. Heidi requires 12 cups a day (yes,literal cups) to keep her condition during lactation. Daisy will be a FF so I don't know what it will take for her yet.

Oh and this is on top of free choice grassy hay that can,in itself,make them "plump"we'll say


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks Little Bits N Pieces, I think I must start that;-)


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> Wow...it does seem like a lot. I'd probably do my sweet feed/ alfalfa mix since my sweet feed is 18% itself. I plan to raise at least 2 goats to process, so it shouldn't eat me out of house and home right? :lol: Well, add to that my two lactating does I hope to have. Heidi requires 12 cups a day (yes,literal cups) to keep her condition during lactation. Daisy will be a FF so I don't know what it will take for her yet.
> 
> Oh and this is on top of free choice grassy hay that can,in itself,make them "plump"we'll say


Oh, I was figuring the sweet feed was around 12% like out here. Is it a lactating feed? 
Ok, so you can either do the 1 1/2lb alfalfa pellets and 1/2lb of the sweet feed, or, do 50/50 

Didn't I say my methods were rather intense?! :lol:


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I use Valbazen for the first 9 weeks, then I go to Zimectrin Gold, or Cydectin or Quest gel as far as wormers go.
> 
> For coccidia prevention, I use DiMethox 40%, Baycox, or Corid.
> 
> ...


I give Baycox and Totrazol for my babies as a cocci treatment.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Baycox and Toltrazuril are basically the same thing


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Baycox and Toltrazuril are basically the same thing


I know. I just thought it woukd be fun to say them both. (Because sometimes I use them both)


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

A thought Janeen. Do you have beavers in the creeks where you are? I use Safeguard liquid at 3 weeks and 6 weeks for 5 days at the same time I'm doing Coccidia prevention. This prevent Giardia as well.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I work them up to 2lbs a day per kid, before the time comes to wean them. The faster they are eating it, the better. Keep them on the 2lbs after weaning, the whole way through. If you breed at 8 months, continue grain for 3 more months after the breeding date, and start graining again 2 weeks or so before they kid, and continue graining through the lactation.
> Even dam raised kids should get grain.


Still learning here. Why not grain a bred doe through the whole pregnancy?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Ingrid said:


> Still learning here. Why not grain a bred doe through the whole pregnancy?


Because you dont need to. If they have good hay, access to pasture, minerals and water. They should be more than good with that. Now, during the last month of pregnancy, grain NEEDS to be added. Its when thw kids grow most. Just not so much grain that the kids will grow too large so the mom has problems kidding.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ingrid said:


> Still learning here. Why not grain a bred doe through the whole pregnancy?


Too much grain in pregnancy makes the kids too large and the does too fat and they can have a hard time delivering. Lacie was saying the first 3 months IF the doe was an 8 month old.(In other words,a doe still growing herself) My does get grain only during the last 2 months of pregnancy and during lactation. As they dry off,so does the grain.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

fishin816 said:


> Now, during the last month of pregnancy, grain NEEDS to be added.


No, it doesn't. If the hay is high quality, grain does not HAVE to be fed at all. I'm sure you know I raise Kiko's and I never feed my does - open or bred - grain, and I rarely feed grain to my lactating does, either. I also have several Nubians in my herd and they also do just fine on hay alone.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> A thought Janeen. Do you have beavers in the creeks where you are? I use Safeguard liquid at 3 weeks and 6 weeks for 5 days at the same time I'm doing Coccidia prevention. This prevent Giardia as well.


No beavers here... ;-)


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

GoatCrazy said:


> No, it doesn't. If the hay is high quality, grain does not HAVE to be fed at all. I'm sure you know I raise Kiko's and I never feed my does - open or bred - grain, and I rarely feed grain to my lactating does, either. I also have several Nubians in my herd and they also do just fine on hay alone.


I think MY does need grain during their last month. I want to make sure the doe and her unborn kids have the best nutrition. And, I raise Nigerians and they need to be producing milk for me and her babies. Grain helps a lot with that....


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

fishin816 said:


> I think MY does need grain during their last month. I want to make sure the doe and her unborn kids have the best nutrition. And, I raise Nigerians and they need to be producing milk for me and her babies. Grain helps a lot with that....


I give my does grain just the normal amount up until their 4th month, then they get less grain and more alfalfa pellets. I have 3 preggo girls right now that eat together and they share a cup of grain between all 3 of them. I do this because I do not want any kidding issues, and so far so good;-) I do increase their grain a lot once they deliver, but to give them just a little bit now so their systems are still used to the grain...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am giving 2 does (nubians) 4 1/2 cups a day right now. It's 3 cups alfalfa to 1 1/2 cups sweet feed. I am always afraid they will get too fat to deliver well.They look fat already!! :lol: I'll up it after they kid and start lactating. I don't remember what exactly I did last year :chin:


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Can y'all help me? My kids are tiny, they are bottle raised. I don't like taking them off of their dams but we need the milk, that is what our does are for so how do you milk them and let the kids nurse? As for bottle babies, how much should they get? 
My 4 day old kids get 24 oz. a day right now, is that too much? too little?
Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What breed are they? How much do they weigh? How many times per day are you bottle feeding and how much per bottle? What are you using for milk for them?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

If you are feeding Alpines, I usually feed my kids 4 12 oz bottles per day (48 oz per day) their first 2 weeks (if they will take it, usually they get all they will eat. I have never had one over eat before). By the end of the first two weeks I slowly work them up to 3 20 oz bottles per day for a total of 60 oz per day. They get this amount for the next 2 1/2-3 months. After that I drop them to 2 bottles a day for a few weeks then to 1 bottle a day for a couple weeks before weaning them completely. By this time they are eating plenty of hay and grain and can fully sustain themselves on feed without milk.

If you are feeding the Nigerians scroll down on this page: http://dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/generalcare.htm she has a schedule on there that she uses to feed her Nigerians. Ellen raises some very nice goats and they are all good sized.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Wow, my goats are not getting enough milk. They haven't been for the last 4 years. Thank you pt goats. Karen they are Alpines, they are 4 days old, when they were born they were seven 1/2 lbs. I mean that in general none of my kids seem big enough,I really see that at shows.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Since 1 day old they have been getting 8 oz. 3 times a day.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I start out with 1 ounce per pound of weight. I will adjust this as needed. I give 4 bottles per day for the first 2 weeks and go down to 3 bottles per day for the next 6 weeks. I have only bottle fed Nigerians and I don't feed more than 12 ounces per bottle.


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## eqstrnathlete (Mar 16, 2013)

I dam raise. I think every mother and child deserves to be together. Plus they grow bigger and better.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

eqstrnathlete said:


> I dam raise. I think every mother and child deserves to be together. Plus they grow bigger and better.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Yeah I think they do grow better being on mom


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## Bayouslug (Mar 22, 2012)

This yr I have bottle fed 1 orphan, and have helped supplement a dam with triplets.......BUT I have created little monsters with another set of twin bucks.....they know I have a bottle and are turning out to be some little piglets so now I have 4 who get a little extra!!! Is this a bad thing I am doing? It's is a colder winter here than usually....I was thinking a full belly is a good thing. Heck their moms act like they are starving and want to eat ALL the time....why shouldn't their kid?? 


What is in your heart is what makes you rich, not what you have.
Carpe Diem


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I won't say it's a good thing or a bad thing. The only thing I would caution you on is that over feeding can cause enterotoxemia, and that will usually kill them deader than hell in a very short time. I never supplement kids that don't need it for that exact reason.


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## Bayouslug (Mar 22, 2012)

18 Oz between 4 / 5 kids, 2x a day. They are on their Moms otherwise.......just so scared the triplet is not getting enough!


What is in your heart is what makes you rich, not what you have.
Carpe Diem


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Does anyone have a bottle feeding schedule for either or both standard dairy kids and Nigerians? I'd like to have them printed in my goat binder so if I need them I have them easy to find.. But... I can't seem to find the ones I had :lol:


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## Bayouslug (Mar 22, 2012)

Scroll up on this thread! I saw one and printed it there is a link to go to!


What is in your heart is what makes you rich, not what you have.
Carpe Diem


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Ok cool thanks  I got a little behind on this thread  lol!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I am going to give my babies 12 oz. three times daily for 2 weeks then 16 oz. 3 times a day. Skyla do you milk your goats and dam raise your kids?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

^ yes  

I keep them on mom and start separating at two weeks at night so I can milk mom in the morning. 

But, we almost always have at least one bottle kid lok


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> ^ yes
> 
> I keep them on mom and start separating at two weeks at night so I can milk mom in the morning.
> 
> But, we almost always have at least one bottle kid lok


Thats what I do, but we just haven't gotten around to it with Gypsy's babies. They are five weeks old now! LOL!


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