# What is the best Grain?



## ryork (Dec 22, 2013)

Just wondering what everyone feeds the best to their dairy goats?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I mix my own! 3 parts whole oats, 3 parts whole barley, 1 part black oil sunflower seeds. Every night I scoop out the grain I'll be using the next day, and soak it in a bit of water with ACV. This helps the grains to be more easily digested. The act of soaking grains used to be the norm for hundreds of years, as people realized that anything that doesn't spoil easily, will not digest easily either. Soaking with ACV or lemon juice releases nutrients and allows the grains to be more easily digested.

I also have my does on alfalfa pellets, which adds more protein to their diet. So ... grass hay, alfalfa hay or pellets, and that mix. 

The mix is from Katherine A. Drovdahl's book, "The Accessible Pet, Equine, and Livestock Herbal".


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## ryork (Dec 22, 2013)

What is ACV


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

apple cider vinegar. The raw stuff has amazing benefits.


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## ryork (Dec 22, 2013)

Just from your local stores? Like Walmart


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

ACV=Apple cider vinegar.

My grain mix is 1/2 rolled barley, 1/2 whole oats, top dressed with Safflower oil. They get all the alfalfa pellets they want, limited top quality orchard grass hay, free choice sea kelp, free choice minerals, and a prehistoric sea salt rock.

My mix is the result of 30 years of goat raising...It's interesting that it's so close to Kat's mix.


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## IslandBranch (Oct 14, 2013)

Oooh, your recipes look so much simpler than the other ones I've seen! I may have to reconsider mixing my own grains . . . Someday


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

goathiker said:


> ACV=Apple cider vinegar.
> 
> My grain mix is 1/2 rolled barley, 1/2 whole oats, top dressed with Safflower oil. They get all the alfalfa pellets they want, limited top quality orchard grass hay, free choice sea kelp, free choice minerals, and a prehistoric sea salt rock.
> 
> My mix is the result of 30 years of goat raising...It's interesting that it's so close to Kat's mix.


How much safflower oil do you give your goats? I have 1 Nigerian Dwarf and growing LaMancha and LaMancha mix.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

A tiny amount Karen, like 1 teaspoon in a 1 gallon pail. It is twice the fat of BOSS but, is a healthy fat that is good for the heart. It also contains a large amount of vitamin E. For your girls maybe 1/4 for the big ones and an 1/8 for the Nigerian.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Would I put that amount on their feed daily? Right now they get 2 measuring cups of feed in the am and that is when I would put it on.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, that amount daily would take the place of about 2 tablespoons of BOSS for the munchies and 1 tablespoon of BOSS for nigies. You could work them up to more but, I wouldn't recommend giving a large amount at all, no more than a teaspoon a day.
I would also recommend taking them off it if you need to use Banamine or aspirin for any reason because it does react with blood thinners to make them stronger. BOSS does this as well.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks! I will just stick with giving them the 1/4 and 1/8 teaspoon. I don't want to go crazy, just trying to make sure my girls are getting all they need. Now if I could just find that cobalt block. onder:


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## 7blessings (Jun 30, 2013)

Following... Is mixing your grains more cost effective, monthly, in comparison with buying a 50 lb bag of 16% grain for dairy goats?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

When you buy whole grains, you should know what you are getting. With the bagged stuff, they can change the mixture a little without putting it on the label. I have used the bagged stuff and have been happy with it but I had bought a whole bunch of oats from a farmer so now trying to use that up. It isn't a whole lot cheaper for me but still a little cheaper. My girls are doing well on it. But I do sprout my oats.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, in the case of Purina Goat Chow...I would need to feed 3 bags every 4 weeks because it is diluted with alfalfa. So that would cost $55.00 just for grain. They would still need alfalfa pellets because that is my main roughage and they may require more hay without the grain husks to digest. 

50lbs. of oats is 10.50 and 50lbs of rolled barley is 11 something so that is around $22.00 for grain, 1 and 1/2 times less.

Some people find it difficult to find barley, if that happens, just oats works almost as well.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> Now if I could just find that cobalt block. onder:


I still haven't found any local either  :sigh:


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## Pats_Perfect_Boer_Goats (Oct 24, 2013)

I don't know how much before it starts playing a role, but oils (sunflower is all I know for sure) limits rumen protozoa count. Protozoa also eat bacteria. So, too much oil (large amounts) can cause a bacterial overload in the rumen. :wink: Again, I don't know how much, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. :wink: :smile:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I found out that Cobalt has to ODed 300 times before anything bad happens. So, as soon as the tax return comes, I'm going to order the Cobalt boluses made by Santa Cruz and try them on a couple of the wether boys. 
I know that sounds terrible but, someone has to test these things out for everyone else.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

When I had my alpacas, the geldings were used to try new things on. They have a purpose too.

What made you decide on the bolus instead of the block? Cost?

Since I only have 3 goats, I was really contemplating just going ahead and paying the price to have the block shipped.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Hmm, interesting about the sunflower seeds. Would the Safflower oil be safer? I've heard the sunflower seeds are good, in limited amounts, and help supply selenium.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> Would I put that amount on their feed daily? Right now they get 2 measuring cups of feed in the am and that is when I would put it on.


Why not just add safflower seeds to the mix instead of having to mess with putting the oil on it everyday?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

IslandBranch said:


> Oooh, your recipes look so much simpler than the other ones I've seen! I may have to reconsider mixing my own grains . . . Someday


They can get pretty complex! For me, simple is best, which is why I chose the simple recipe. :laugh: I know Kat of Fir Meadow is successful in the show ring and with milking awards, so I trusted her mix to do my girls good.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

fishin816 said:


> Why not just add safflower seeds to the mix instead of having to mess with putting the oil on it everyday?


Because seeds are way too hard to find. I can find a bottle of safflower oil right at the grocery store. The feed stores around me don't carry stuff like that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Mainly the difficulty of finding them. I really haven't completely decided yet, depends on whether the feed store can get a 50lb. block brought in. Or several small ones at a time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My feed stores aren't even willing to order it. So it must not be part of their regular suppliers.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Be careful of seeds made for birds. Some of them are coated with chemicals to prevent them from sprouting.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Thank you, goathiker. What would you recommend to replace the sunflower seeds? The oil you use? Do you use your mixture with lactating does as well?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I prefer to use oil. It's the main reason for adding BOSS anyway. BOSS really doesn't have that much selenium and like everything else the content is dependent on where it is grown and how the fields are fertilized. 

Yes, I use this mix with my lactating does. Keeping goals in mind is important though. I don't want a 2 gallon a day milker and I don't want to feed that production. I want good moderate gallon a day milker, that can preform on that level with normal natural grains that I can get easily. Ultimately, I want to recreate the homestead goats of the '70's who could milk moderately well and maintain weight on browse, pasture, and garden vegetables.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Yep, that's exactly what we want to ... just half sized :laugh: I will have to look into modifying.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> Because seeds are way too hard to find. I can find a bottle of safflower oil right at the grocery store. The feed stores around me don't carry stuff like that.


Oh I didn't know that. Just trying to make things easier.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Hmm... So that grain mix won't prompt high production?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

My TSC store has safflower seeds in a #20 bag. If that helps any


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately mine doesn't offer anything more than Purina products.

Most people around here feed the bagged stuff so it is much harder to find whole grains. We do have the alfalfa pellets so that is easy to find.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Hmm... So that grain mix won't prompt high production?


 Not really, it will support lactation but they won't milk as much as they would on a buffered high protein diet. 
I feel that they will be useful for longer by not forcing high production.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Ok.. Good to know


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## goatsgalorefm (Dec 15, 2013)

goathiker said:


> I prefer to use oil. It's the main reason for adding BOSS anyway. BOSS really doesn't have that much selenium and like everything else the content is dependent on where it is grown and how the fields are fertilized.
> 
> Yes, I use this mix with my lactating does. Keeping goals in mind is important though. I don't want a 2 gallon a day milker and I don't want to feed that production. I want good moderate gallon a day milker, that can preform on that level with normal natural grains that I can get easily. Ultimately, I want to recreate the homestead goats of the '70's who could milk moderately well and maintain weight on browse, pasture, and garden vegetables.



What is BOSS?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

BOSS is Black Oil Sunflower Seeds


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## goatsgalorefm (Dec 15, 2013)

Being new, i'm curious what some of what you're talking about means: BOSS, cobalt, just to name a couple. I can see that my friend who has these goats is clueless and i'm very worried about the other animals they have......


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## goatsgalorefm (Dec 15, 2013)

thanks


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Not really, it will support lactation but they won't milk as much as they would on a buffered high protein diet.
> I feel that they will be useful for longer by not forcing high production.


I agree wholeheartedly. I much prefer hardy goats with good production, rather than frail goats who pour their life into the milkpan, lol!



goatsgalorefm said:


> Being new, i'm curious what some of what you're talking about means: BOSS, cobalt, just to name a couple. I can see that my friend who has these goats is clueless and i'm very worried about the other animals they have......


BOSS is black oiled sunflower seeds. Cobalt is a mineral. 

Is your friend willing to join the goat spot?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

goathiker said:


> ACV=Apple cider vinegar.
> 
> My grain mix is 1/2 rolled barley, 1/2 whole oats, top dressed with Safflower oil. They get all the alfalfa pellets they want, limited top quality orchard grass hay, free choice sea kelp, free choice minerals, and a prehistoric sea salt rock.
> 
> My mix is the result of 30 years of goat raising...It's interesting that it's so close to Kat's mix.


I want to try this.... safflower oil is much easier for me to get than BOSS (cheaper too I would imagine), but I don't think I can find barley. would that work? just barley and safflower oil? i'm currently also top dressing with peas. can I take those out?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

nchen7 said:


> I want to try this.... safflower oil is much easier for me to get than BOSS (cheaper too I would imagine), but I don't think I can find barley. would that work? just barley and safflower oil? i'm currently also top dressing with peas. can I take those out?


I can't get barley. It is too expensive in my area and the feed store has to special order it. So I just do oats and alfalfa pellets.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I feed a premixed dairy ration made by a local dairy (Feathercreek Farms) and mixed/sold by my local mill. It's a mix of oats, soy pellets (ick, but for the price I deal with it), corn, barley and I add alfalfa pellets on top just to up the calcium and protein a bit. It works wonderfully for his herd, and it does pretty well for my two meat bucks. I highly doubt it's available anywhere else but here, but the mix is pretty similar to what everyone else suggests and in roughly the same measurements. The protein content is around 16%, so a little lower than what I'm used to feeding (20% range and breeder cubes, calf size, alfalfa based), but they like it better and it's only a little bit more expensive.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

3havens, have you looked into lacto fermenting grains? I've used this for my chickens but haven't tried it with the goats(since I use fodder for them). The grain is soaked in water with a buttermilk or whey starter. Also supposed to be super healthy!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

milk and honey said:


> 3havens, have you looked into lacto fermenting grains? I've used this for my chickens but haven't tried it with the goats(since I use fodder for them). The grain is soaked in water with a buttermilk or whey starter. Also supposed to be super healthy!


I don't want to lacto ferment with my goats, as I don't want to feed them dairy when I'm not sure of the source. Johnes scares me, and isn't always completely killed by pasteurization.

I soak with water and ACV, supposed to be super good for them as well!


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## Pats_Perfect_Boer_Goats (Oct 24, 2013)

ThreeHavens said:


> Hmm, interesting about the sunflower seeds. Would the Safflower oil be safer? I've heard the sunflower seeds are good, in limited amounts, and help supply selenium.


I don't really know. I "think" it is all oils, but I'm not 100% sure. :smile: I would think you would have to feed very large amounts before it happens though. :smile: :wink: :smile:


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

My Conure (small parrot) prefers Safflower seeds. I've been feeding them to her for 10 years and she looks great. You can find them at any store that carries bird seed. They are the small white seeds. I've found the biggest bag for the best price at Petco


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

milk and honey said:


> 3havens, have you looked into lacto fermenting grains? I've used this for my chickens but haven't tried it with the goats(since I use fodder for them). The grain is soaked in water with a buttermilk or whey starter. Also supposed to be super healthy!


you can do the same with ACV. I've tried it with my girls, but they don't like it when it gets too funky (think perpetual summer, and the ferment can get strong after a week...).


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I personally prefer BOSS because it gives some protein snd fiber also. So even tho its added mainly for the fat the actual whole seed does have other benefits as well


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

ThreeHavens said:


> I don't want to lacto ferment with my goats, as I don't want to feed them dairy when I'm not sure of the source. Johnes scares me, and isn't always completely killed by pasteurization.
> 
> I soak with water and ACV, supposed to be super good for them as well!


I agree...I'll keep that one for the chickens! The acv does sound like a great idea...and I wouldn't have to use as much as when I ad it to the water. I could even afford the raw kind!


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## goatsgalorefm (Dec 15, 2013)

ThreeHavens said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. I much prefer hardy goats with good production, rather than frail goats who pour their life into the milkpan, lol!
> 
> BOSS is black oiled sunflower seeds. Cobalt is a mineral.
> 
> Is your friend willing to join the goat spot?


No, she knows everything......*rolling eyes* shrug.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I swear by Blue Seal grains. I get the high energy dairy cow pellets for the most part, since I can bounce around with the protein level and not have to change over slowly because they are the same feed with the same ingredients.

I mix the pellets with soaked beet pulp (also Blue Seal) and BOSS or Rice Bran meal.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

The % of fat in a goats diet is not supposed to exceed 5% of the total diet. If it goes over that amount, it can kill the good gut bacteria and also cause scours. Sometimes, in the extreme cold like we are having now (below 0) I will let the fat % be a bit higher for those extra calories, but it is not for long. So far I haven't had any problems, but I keep an eye out just inc case.


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## lauraanimal1 (Sep 5, 2013)

Hello everyone got a question, heard/Seen you mention Cobalt blocks for the goats and they being hard to find. Are these the Blue cobalt salt licks you get at the feed store? If so Please tell me about what it with them that makes them so important for the goats please. Thanks
Laura


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

lauraanimal1 said:


> Hello everyone got a question, heard/Seen you mention Cobalt blocks for the goats and they being hard to find. Are these the Blue cobalt salt licks you get at the feed store? If so Please tell me about what it with them that makes them so important for the goats please. Thanks
> Laura


Somebody on another forum told me thats blue cobalt blocks are what you want.:shrug:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Cobalt is the mineral that goats use to make vitamin B 12. They need it make red blood cells and to use some of their other minerals. It really is cheap insurance toward healthier animals.


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## AvyNatFarm (Oct 29, 2013)

I feed Blue Seal Caprine Challenger throughout all life stages of my does. I'm very happy with it and they love it. I'd highly recommend it if you don't want to mix your own ration.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

We fed Blue Seal forever and noticed a drastic change in their quality when Kent bought them out. 

I am extremely happy with Poulin grains now


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## AvyNatFarm (Oct 29, 2013)

That's interesting SassyKat. I know several goat/ llama people still feed it around here, but I don't know what it was like before.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Goathiker, quick question, would ACV destroy the safflower oil?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No, in fact oil and vinegar complete a protein chain making them work really well together.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh, yay!


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