# Need help from ABGA breeders/exhibitors



## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

I am wanting opinions from experienced breeders/exhibitors familiar w/ the expectations of goats competing on the ABGA level. Please subscribe to this thread. I will be back from the barn in a bit w/ my pictures & questions.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

I need honest, unbiased feedback. 

Doe #1-
We were told this doe would not make a good breeding doe, & that if we want good quality show offspring she needs to go. 

(Bare w/ me on uploading pics. The app keeps crashing)


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)




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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)




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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)




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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

Doe #2-

We were told this doe is not ABGA quality but her offspring potentially could be.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

Doe #1 is 8 months old. Doe #2 is 4 months old.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

I am wanting not only to know if you agree/disagree w/ the feedback given to us, but an explanation as to why you feel that way. That's where we are getting stumped. We get "do this, do that" but no reason as to why?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Both does have a bit of steep rump. Unless she has no teats or some glaring genetic fault she can be bred. One of my girls is steeper but has no problems kidding.
In the early days I'd bring anybody to a show cause I didn't know better so it's good you are asking for feedback.

Im no good at critiquing.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Can you post pics of teat structure?


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

I like the % doe a lot... no she may not win grand champion, but she's still a nice doe IMO. I commented on what I like about her in a different thread. I'd show her if she were mine.  

With your first doe, she's pretty narrow and could use some width, has a high rump, she doesn't blend real well into her shoulders and appears down on her pasterns a little. She also looks small for her age? Her right rear leg looks really funky in that one picture.. was she inured or is it just the way she is standing? 

She's got length going for her and she has a real pretty head.  Honestly though I do not think doe #1 would compete at ABGA shows... I would agree you should probably look for a nicer doe if you really want to compete.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Also like Nancy mentioned... are their teats and bite good?


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

With you knowing our goal, Would doe #1 be good for breeding purposes to produce show babies? Or just cull her out? She is definitely small for her age. Might of been the bout of coccidia she had. 

Teats & bite good on both. Both 2 x 2. 

Really appreciating the help guys!


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

Doe 1 is standing weird. No injury. Fluke picture taken haha!


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

If she was bred to a wide, level, smooth buck then yes, I do think she could have nice kids.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

This doe was bought just to be a companion. Would she be breeding quality or just pet quality for us? Ignore the topline. It's weird in this pic. She's actually pretty level w/ no dip behind shoulder.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

hscottom87 said:


> I am wanting not only to know if you agree/disagree w/ the feedback given to us, but an explanation as to why you feel that way. That's where we are getting stumped. We get "do this, do that" but no reason as to why?


Doe #1 has a steep rump and has a bit of a stunted look to her, but I wouldn't go so far as to say cull her and start over. Especially if money is tight. If you have the money to be aggressive in your quest to win blue, then yeah, she would slow you down a little. One thing I notice is that it appears you did some fitting on doe #1 with the clippers and it looks like you clipped her entire top line. If you had left the hair on her rump long, it would have made her less steep looking. Just a little tip I learned by doing the same as you did.  If you decide to keep doe #1, I would wait until next year to breed her and let her catch up. When I first started I bought a doe that was sort of stunted looking and she is now my best producer.
Doe #2 is a pretty decent doe it appears. Knowing me, I would have to show her at least once. Would she place? I sort of doubt it, but the experience you would gain by participating is worth a *lot*. Doe #2 appears to have a relatively flat rump when compared to doe #1. #2 appears to have a fairly good chest, or a license to grow up with a good chest. #2 appears to be normal or even big for her age. Unless #2 has something that won't pass with bite, pigment or teats, I'm not sure why someone would try and talk you out of entering a show.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

Lol oohh that's another story there. My FIRST time clipping ended so badly that we had to cut her topline off just so she would look *halfway ok*. That BAD!! Talk about embarrassing @ the county fair.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

Doe #3 worth anything? Another stunted doe. Paid $25 to throw in as companion for doe 1 when she was all we had. So if she's cull worthy it's no biggie.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm really not great at critiquing, so I can't give you a great answer. But I do know that doe #3 really, really could use a better top. She doesn't have enough breed character in her head for my liking ( probably just because she's a cross?), and she could use more meat and muscle... Not sure what else to say about her! I like her bone and she is fairly long. 

Unless she has something seriously wrong with her, I wouldn't cull her. I seriously doubt she'll give you something that is show quality, but I don't see why you couldn't keep her and breed her.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

She was standing goofy. She actually has an incredibly straight topline & came from purebred boer stock. I agree, I don't like her head either. She is pretty stunted. Might get a breeding out of her & send her down the road.


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## hscottom87 (Mar 21, 2013)

I don't know if it's possible but I wondered if she lacked muscle & all from being so stunted. And that maybe a breeding would uncover through her babies her true potential? Maybe it doesn't work that way???


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Sometimes you just get genetics that really click with a breeding.  So yes, your doe certainly could have potential to produce nice kids! I have a doe who isn't something I would show, and doesn't look real great, but my goodness she gave us absolutely gorgeous kids! 

So you never know!


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