# Banding vs Surgery



## Keeperpete60 (Apr 16, 2019)

10 wk Nigerian Dwarfs.
Pets
No does
Banding vs surgery
Told danger of Urethra not being developed if band too soon 
Don't want them under too much pain


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If I did not have does to worry about, I'd band the bucklings at 4 months. I'd give each of them a banamine shot and a tetanus antitoxin, and band them. 

The tetanus antitoxin will take care of a tetanus infection and the banamine will help with the initial pain, and the waiting until 4 months will take care of most of the urethra growth. 

Not waiting longer than 4 months will prevent them from maturing into full blown buckish mindset, which does not always calm down after wethering.

Cutting can involve a longer recovery, and invite fly torment. It is not my preferred method. You will need to pay attention to mineral ratios for the rest of their lives, but you have to do that anyway... Even if you keep them full bucks.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I would recommend banding. There are way more risks with surgery. I have heard of multiple goats dying this year under anesthesia either for disbudding, or banding. They won't be in pain for long with banding. The whole area is pretty much numbed within a few hours. When I band, mine normally just lay down for a couple of hours but are right back up on the next feeding(bottle babies) very rarely do I ever have one scream, or act to be in excruciating pain. There is also the burdizzo method if you want to buy one, or know someone with one. The spermatic cords are crushed one at a time, this is about as painful, if not more so than banding. However it is quicker(so the pain likely also subsides in a few hours) and no risks for infection, flies to get in it, or waiting for it to fall off. Banamine can be given just prior to banding/burdizzo to help relieve pain.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

:up:Good advice!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> If I did not have does to worry about, I'd band the bucklings at 4 months. I'd give each of them a banamine shot and a tetanus antitoxin, and band them.
> 
> The tetanus antitoxin will take care of a tetanus infection and the banamine will help with the initial pain, and the waiting until 4 months will take care of most of the urethra growth.
> 
> ...


Yep :up:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I used the burdizzo on Russ, he got a BAD gang green infection, I had to band over it and administer HEAVY antibiotics, but he got through it and is just fine now, just wanted to get that out there


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

spidy1 said:


> used the burdizzo on Russ, he got a BAD gang green infection


I've never heard of gangrene with a burdizzo. Thanks.


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Keeperpete60 said:


> 10 wk Nigerian Dwarfs.
> Pets
> No does
> Banding vs surgery
> ...


Others may not agree BUT when our 4 boys needed to be fixed...first PLEASE be extremely sure that you give the urethra plenty of time to grow before fixing them. I've seen much too many boys fixed much too soon
And if you've never done it let someone who does it all the time do the banding. If I had it to do over again NEVER would I band one of my boys! 3 were banded and much to my distress they were in SEVERE pain. As soon as they got the band on they were put back on the ground but they fell over crying with their eyes rolling back into their heads! I was absolutely DEVASTATED! Never ever AGAIN! Thank GOD, Tiny Tim was too young! I had him done a few weeks later surgically. It took about 10 minutes and he woke up like nothing happened. I also had daddy done, he was put under anesthesia only about 5 minutes and the vet crimped him. With Timmy my vet removed the testicles. Maybe other people are used to it but never would I band AGAIN! in fact banding is outlawed in some countries. Just a THOUGHT..the most important thing is to PLEASE make sure that the urethra is grown enough because when they are fixed too young they have a bigger chance of getting stones stuck and dying a very painful death...just another thought
.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Huh. I had the opposite experience with banding vs. surgery. Mine were in far more pain and took much longer to recover from surgery than from banding. All the boys we band get a little depressed for a few hours and will lay around, but we've never had any screaming or thrashing or anything like that. Of course, I always give banamine before banding. By next day they are perfectly normal again with no pain at all. 

By contrast it took 3-4 days for my boys to recover from surgical castration. We had a lot of stiff, sad-looking wethers mincing around for a few days. You also have to be very sure that your vet does it right. I've known a couple of people whose boys bled to death after surgical castration because the vet crimped the blood vessels without putting in stitches. Sometimes it works, but other times those crimps just aren't enough.


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

Personally, I'm castration using underwear elastic, give the goat the grain and he eats it while I pull his balls with a rubber band on the noose. Doing this in the winter, to avoid the flies.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How can you be sure it is on tight enough and stay tight?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ReNat said:


> Personally, I'm castration using underwear elastic


For how many years have you been doing it this way? Or is this something you are planning to do this coming Winter and you haven't tried it yet?

Underwear elastic here in the US is pretty weak and give up the stretch easily, and I think that would stop me from ever using this product. I wonder if Russian underwear is tougher than ours? HaHaHa!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

And I prefer to let them intact, as long as there are no does to worry about! Yes, they will smell more, but, in my opinion, quite nicely! 

And welcome, dear fellow goat lover! They really make wonderful pets! :inlove:


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

There have been studies done on urethra sizes vs age of neutering,. and the age of neutering seems to be about 12 weeks for the most similar diameter of urethra to un-neutered


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> For how many years have you been doing it this way? Or is this something you are planning to do this coming Winter and you haven't tried it yet?
> 
> Underwear elastic here in the US is pretty weak and give up the stretch easily, and I think that would stop me from ever using this product. I wonder if Russian underwear is tougher than ours? HaHaHa!


I personally spent several castrations, an excellent result. I think the underwear elastic is the same everywhere, (



) the video in Rоssian, at 2.30 minutes shows castration. But I do not bind goat, give him oats and while he eats oats, I will castrate him. After a few hours, the eggs of the goat cool down, after a few days they dry up, after about 1.5-2 months, the eggs fall off from the goat.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I can see how that would work, as a kid I knew this horse that had a string tied on her tail much like that, she lost the bottom 5-6 in of tail bone


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Except the horse's tail bone would have kept growing, keeping the pressure on the string, which would not have been losing elasticity, because it would have had no elasticity to lose.

For soft tissue testicle sacks, tied with weak elastic, there is no growing bone to keep pressure up, and there is weak elastic that could loosen.

So the danger is greater in the second case for problems, including deadly septicemia. People who live where there is a better option, and are more inexperienced than Renat seems to be, would, imo, be better served to use the better option of the bands that are meant for this job.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

agreed totally


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

In Rоssia I participate about 5 Internet sites on the contents and care of a goat. Deaths after castration with a scalpel happen and besides there is a period of postoperative recovery of an animal, and after a linen elastic band I didn't hear about death of a goat. Castration of the linen elastic goat practically does not notice his behavior and appetite remain normal. About the weak pressure underwear elastic, I can say one thing, this pressure is enough and it does its job perfectly well. And then, buy special ticks (elastrator) and rings to him ~ 100$ for me unprofitable, but as they say, everyone does as he needs.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, the availability (including the factor of cost) of bands can definitely be a variable.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

ReNat said:


> And then, buy special ticks (elastrator) and rings to him ~ 100$ for me unprofitable, but as they say, everyone does as he needs.


Wow. That same tool costs only about $15 in the U.S.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ReNat said:


> I personally spent several castrations, an excellent result. I think the underwear elastic is the same everywhere, (
> 
> 
> 
> ) the video in Rоssian, at 2.30 minutes shows castration. But I do not bind goat, give him oats and while he eats oats, I will castrate him. After a few hours, the eggs of the goat cool down, after a few days they dry up, after about 1.5-2 months, the eggs fall off from the goat.


Probably your goats do not scream as badly as the one in your film? Thank you for sharing, but, oh! I am shocked ...


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Damfino said:


> Wow. That same tool costs only about $15 in the U.S.


What will the postage and customs be, if one of you buy one for ReNat, and sends it?


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

I'd reccomend banding at night just before bed time. That way they sleep through the first few hours after banding wich is the worst part.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

How about a good pain killer?


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## ReNat (Jan 20, 2019)

my goats like oats, I give each morning 400 grams and in the evening 400 grams, Martin more 1kg. Goats so strongly like oats that during food I quietly castrate their, they perceive my touch as attack on his oats and not shouts quite. Then with that I go it alone, and if mites, you need an assistant or associate goat for him stress. Interesting idea proposed by ScottЕ.
Sorry, not $ 100. $ 10? there are cheaper on aliexpress, https://ru.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-elastrator.html to be honest me and $ 10-12 to crush a toad.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ReNat said:


> $ 10-12 to crush a toad.


Sorry, Renat. I didn't follow that last one. I don't know what you mean by this.


Trollmor said:


> How about a good pain killer?


That is why I suggested banamine before. It isn't vital, but it does help.


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