# Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin? Now Cocci



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Had fecals done on both of my big girls - both have a pretty good amount of strongyles and need some Ivermectin (which I expected they needed wormed with something other than the herbal I used, just from the way they're looking lately) 

Can I use the paste instead of the injectable? The paste would be triple the dosage on the tube, correct? What's the withdrawal time for milk, 2 or 3 days?

Vet said to do one treatment and then do fecals again in 2-3 weeks.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Ivermectin question*

I like the Ivomec injectable down the throat..... I have never used the paste...

The vet is wrong...you have to worm them again.. 10 days later ..to get the hatching eggs.....or the worms will come back.....


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question*

Is the dosage for the oral the same as it would be sub-Q? 1cc per 100 lbs?

About the re-dose, that's what I was thinking, I remember reading several places that you are supposed to re-dose 10 days later. Thanks!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Ivermectin question*



> Is the dosage for the oral the same as it would be sub-Q? 1cc per 100 lbs?
> 
> About the re-dose, that's what I was thinking, I remember reading several places that you are supposed to re-dose 10 days later. Thanks!


 I give 1cc per 33lbs with ivomec injectable down the throat... then yes... again 10 days later..... :wink:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

We use injectible off and on, but also use Equimax or Quest Plus horse paste. Equimax is good stuff. If you use Equimax it would be 3x the dosage of a horse. So a 100lb. goat would be treated like a 300lb. horse. We wormed some doelings last weekend with Equimax, and doing a 2nd dose in a couple of days.

If you use Quest Plus I was told by our vet to double the dose on that one, so a 100lb. goat would be treated like a 200lb. horse.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Ok, I went to the farm supply store for some Ivomec, but all they had was Noromectin. I know that, theoretically, it's the same thing, however the Noromectin specifically says not to use in dairy cattle as no milk withdrawal time has been established. (I know that no ivermectin product is labeled for goats.) The paper insert also has the warning that it's not for use in humans.

I've not looked at a bottle of Ivomec to see if it carries the same warnings. So my question is - is it ok to use this instead of Ivomec? Has anyone here with dairy goats used it and what did you determine the withdrawal time to be? Also, is Noromectin safe for nursing kids as Ivomec is? At the moment, Eclair still has her kids on her during the day and we're just separating at night and milking in the AM. We planned on just letting the kids with her for the withdrawal period time.

As to the dosage - neither of the girls have ever been given Ivomec before - at least to my knowledge. I know their breeder uses herbal wormer pretty much exclusively. Anyhow they've probably not built up a resistance to Ivomec - so should I go with the 1cc per 33 lbs, 1cc per 50 lbs, or 1cc per 100 lbs (which is what the vet told me)?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Noromectin is the "generic" form of Ivomec...same drug. As far as milk withdrawal time, I use a 3 day period of not consuming it.... after that I use it.

If you are doing the doseage orally, I would follow Pams advice on doseage...I personally don't use the injectible form of ivermectin. With any wormer, it is important to dose 2-3 times at 10 day intervals to be sure to catch all life stages of the parasite.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

What do you use, Liz? Have you used the Noromectin?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

When I have a need to use a wormer I use ivermectin paste (I do my own fecals so it's easy to see wether or not it works) I push the contents of the tube into a 6cc syringe and dose by tripled weight... 1cc will worm 208lbs ( goat weight of 69lbs tripled) and I dose every 7-10 days for 3 doses total, I check a fecal 2-3 days after the last dose.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Like this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16121

Thanks. I think that I will go with the paste, as that's what I was leaning towards in the beginning and I just feel more comfortable with it.

So if Fiona is 105 lbs, how much would she get - 1/2cc right? I like the idea of squirting it into another syringe for more precise dosage - those dials can be hard to read.

I need to learn to do my own fecals.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

I use Noromectin when I use injectible.

I still say Equimax. Even the people at the horse supply store say it's one of the best horse wormers.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Equimax is the one that is ivermectin plus the other stuff for tapeworms, right?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*



.:Linz:. said:


> Equimax is the one that is ivermectin plus the other stuff for tapeworms, right?


Yep  Worming can be really confusing at times. Trying to make sure what you use is effective, worms aren't resistant, etc. It's probably my biggest hurdle with goats so far. 
But, we're alternating between Equimax, Quest Plus and Cydectin. 
We have boer and percentages, and live in a worm prone area. I can't afford to go to the vet every time I think I am dealing with a worm issue <it's either get the fecal or get the wormer>. Hoping to get a microscope sometime before spring/after the holidays so I can do my own. Wonder if my family would think I was crazy if I asked everyone for microscope/microscope supplies....LOL


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Thanks for your help! One last question then, is the Equimax safe for nursing kids? And do you happen to know what the milk withdrawal time would be - still 3 days, do you think?

(guess that was 2 questions...)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*



.:Linz:. said:


> Thanks for your help! One last question then, is the Equimax safe for nursing kids? And do you happen to know what the milk withdrawal time would be - still 3 days, do you think?
> 
> (guess that was 2 questions...)


I'd think it would be the same withdrawl time, but honestly I am not sure because we don't have dairy goats.
It's safe for nursing kids also safe for pregnant does.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*



.:Linz:. said:


> Like this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16121
> 
> Thanks. I think that I will go with the paste, as that's what I was leaning towards in the beginning and I just feel more comfortable with it.
> 
> ...


The paste I use I get at Tractor Supply...it's the same med...1.87% Ivermectin.
Does she actually weigh 105lbs? Or does she weigh 35lbs? If this is her weight then yes, she'll need to get 1/2cc.... a little more won't hurt as it is best to over dose a little than it is to under dose.

IF her actual weight is 105lbs...triple her weight to get accurate dosing..She would need the dose for 345lbs, which would be a little less than 2cc of paste.

The Equimax has a higher percentage of the Praziquantal...which is good for tapeworms, I believe it has a 14%.... I don't think there are precautions for using it with young horses or pregnant mares so I would be comfortable using the med on a kid...however, I think I'd be more likely to use Zimectrin Gold as the Praziquantal percentage is at 7.75%.

With the Equimax, I'd double the goat weight just as precaution due to the high percentage of the Prazi....with the Zimectrin however, I've used it at triple the weight with no issues. Oh...and because MOST of the worm meds used to treat parasites in producing animals are also used to treat people, I'm comfortable with using the milk for myself after 3 days, most labels do say that there should be a 40 day milk withdrawal time but I personally think it's a senseless waste...however if you aren't comfortable with the lesser withdrawal time ( I'm still here..lol and I've practiced this way for YEARS) You can go with the greater recommended one.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Okay, thank you all very much. I am going to go to return the Noromectin tomorrow and I'll see what they have in the line of paste.

Thanks for the clarification on the dosage. I'm fine with a 3 or 4 day withdrawal time, especially since everything I've read says that tests haven't shown traces of the meds in the milk anyhow.

Now, the vet didn't say how heavy of a parasite load there was, just that there was a pretty heavy load - should I be concerned about the issue of there being a fast kill rate / bleed out / blockage after being dosed?

And I have some Red Cell here - it wouldn't hurt to give them that right since they're probably anemic? Their eyelids are a pale pink.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

As far as quick kill and detachment of parasites, I have no experience with this but can give my opinion....if you know the goat needs wormed and has a heavy load, under dosing will do nothing but build up resistance to the med, dosing correctly however does run risk of the said problems, however it's you as her owner that needs to make that decision...worm her and hope that it helps her and you know the risk involved or don't worm her and continue her life the way it is knowing that a wormload will depilitate her further and likely result in death from malnutrition due to the inability to absorb nutrition because of the damage done to her gut from the parasites.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Okay so I decided to give them the ivermectin 1.87% paste but not one combined with praziquantal. I wound up giving them regular Zimectrin - there were cheaper options but I thought that perhaps the more expensive brand was better? Even though they are essentially all the same in the end. I just hate that I let it get this bad! Lesson learned - don't trust something unless you know for sure it's actually working. 
How long until the ivermectin starts working?

Should I give them some Red Cell now? 6cc per 100lbs right?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

When I use Ivermectin paste.. Dur Vet brand...only $4 a tube at Tractor Supply.

You need to dose with the appropriate amount for weight every 7-10 days for a total of 3 doses. I haven't used Red Cell so I can't really help with that.
You should see a difference with condition and weight gain within 3-6 weeks after worming....


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

They had the DurVet stuff there, I think it was less than $2 a tube.

I measured them with a tape measure, used the weight calculator chart at Fiasco Farm, and added 10lbs to that weight. So Fiona I dosed for 115 - 1 3/4cc and Eclair for 140 - a little over 2 1/4 cc. Both of those figures are slight over-dosages, as well according to the example on here that you (Liz) posted some time ago. I have a 3cc syringe that came with some children's medicine that is marked in 1/2 cc increments with lines in between yet, so that made it easy to measure out the dosages.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin?*

Okay so...

Two treatments with the ivermectin paste, third due tomorrow. Fecals ran yesterday came back clear for stronglyes.

BUT Eclair's came back with coccidia - 2-4 eggs seen on entire slide (not per field/chambered). The vet had already gone home so the receptionist just read me the report over the phone, and of course couldn't advise me about treatment. The vet is going to call me on Monday.

I have about a third of a pouch of Dimethox 12.5% powder here, can't get anything else until Monday because everything closes at noon on Saturdays here.

Should I start treatment right away with what I have or sit on it until I hear back from the vet on Monday? Should I give everyone else preventative treatments or just treat her? Or is it really nothing to worry about since the count was rather low? Fiona had no cocci, and I didn't get the little ones checked. Oh yes, also the littles have tapeworms so I'm giving them Safeguard the next three days.

Stupid worms!


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin? Now Cocc*

Ivomec or a similar generic drug is total kill off. If your goats have a heavy worm load this could kill them.

I would go with safeguard first, check eyelids for anemia, treat if need be with red cell, and then in a few days use Ivomec in what ever form you want but make sure it's enough. It's pretty hard to overdose with this stuff.

Too much worm kill off can be toxic.

HTH,


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin? Now Cocc*

I started the Ivermectin treatment a little over three weeks ago, and the fecals I had done Friday showed no more strongyle eggs, I'm just dosing them the third time tomorrow because that's what the general consensus is regarding treatment - three total, 10 days apart.

Right now the only worms in the two samples I had tested were a max of 4 cocci eggs in Eclair's sample. Fiona was completely clear.

Safeguard is pretty much useless here except for on tapeworms, which both of the kids have, so I'm treating them for tapeworms, and waiting to hear from people here and the vet as to best course of action regarding the cocci in Eclair's case.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin? Now Cocc*

ahhhhh......
K - didn't get that you're on your 3rd dose.

For 2 goats it's probably not worth it but Baycox is a total kill for coccidia.

HTH,


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Ivermectin question - New question: Noromectin? Now Cocc*

that amount of cocci is pretty low and if here I would not treat but monitor poop for a rise in numbers.

with a very heavy load any wormer administered orally that kills the adult worms can (but would be rare) cause issue. The issue would be that the killing of a high load of adult worm that is attached to the intestine would possibly cause blockage as the worms release and travel to be expeled. Bleed out from the rapid detachment is very unlikely but hey anything can happen I suppose.

The repeat doses are more necessary when using a wormer that does not kill all life stages of the worm with high levels. Ivermectin is a wormer that as long as your herd has not been allowed to build resistance should kill most life stages of many worms. 
Underdosing is never recommended no matter how high or low the wormload.


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