# AGS Nationals will NOT be in NJ!!!!!!!!



## RunAround

AGS has released a letter to the group in NJ that was working on the 2012 AGS nationals stuff saying that the nationals will NOT be held in NJ. 

TONS of people have put a TON of their own time and effort into planning events, vendors, raffles, ect for this show!! Judges have been asked if they could attend, pens had been bought for the fair grounds! 

Lots of people have bred their goat specifically for NATIONALS. 

And after all this effort put into everything the AGS just goes and decided NO nationals in NJ. 

:veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry: 

I can scan safely say i will not be renewing my membership with the AGS, registering any animals with the AGS or doing milk test with AGS. I am DONE with a registry that breaks contracts and lets their people down. :angry:


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## Randi

That is SOOO WRONG!!! I am appalled that at this late date AGS has the unmitigated gall to do such a thing!! I am inclined to follow your lead and no longer register my goats with AGS. Between AGS and ADGA there doesn't seem to be a trust=worthy registry left! :veryangry:


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## KW Farms

:sigh: That's so not right. They should have decided this way earlier. Definatley going to let a lot of people down.


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## DavyHollow

That sucks!
Could you have a big show anyway? Since you have put in all the effort so far? Could be good for those who bred for it


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## StaceyRosado

those that put the effort in are not inclined at this time to talk about doing another show - they only today received the letter. 

AGS from the start has NOT wanted to have Nationals in NJ but finally "gave in" to our bid for Nationals to be held in NJ. For some reason they have now renegged on their contract and have not set a date or location for where Nationals will be.

I didnt have the money to renew my membership back when it was the cheeper 15.00 -- you can betcha I WILL NOT be renewing my membership now! 

This is HORRENDOUS! what kind of organization does this to everyone this late in the year? After months and MONTHS of hard work and publicizing and the reasons given hold no water in my book. They made no effort to see if a remedy could be made for a couple of their complaints before pulling the plug on the whole thing. 

Its disgraceful how they have acted and I wont participate with an organization that works in this manor.


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## SandStoneStable Farm

Very odd, what was their rational?


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## RunAround

I encourage everyone to call the AGS!!! Let them know this is NOT OK!!


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## Randi

American Goat Society (AGS)

830-535-4247


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## RunAround

If No one answers leave a message!


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## Randi

If no one gets back to you, call again tomorrow.


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## RunAround

AGS will NOT answer so be sure to email and leave messages.

I called teh Vice President: Gayle C. Nelson, 1327 E. Lawson Rd., Little Rock, AR 72210 (501) 821-2688 Email: [email protected]
She REFUSES to comment on the matter, but please, let her know how we feel about this.

And please let her and the directors at large know:
DIRECTORS AT LARGE
2013 Linda Worley, 31003 160th St, Wayne, OK 73095 (405) 449-7188 Email: [email protected]
2014 (Vice President) Gayle C. Nelson, 1327 E. Lawson Rd., Little Rock, AR 72210 (501) 821-2688 Email: [email protected]
2012 Tim Flickinger, PO Box 226, Wakarusa, IN 46573 (574) 862-4378 Email: [email protected]


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## freedomstarfarm

I have spoken to the Vice President and feel that there is no reason the 5 problem issues stated in the letter to the NJ club can not be easily resoled. I have left messages for the President and left messages at AGS and am waiting to hear back. The rational is not backed and there are 5 minor issues easily resolved. I have been given the go ahead to attempt to resolve this by our club director who is too frustrated at this time to proceed. I am hoping to hear back soon and will keep all updated. For AGS to renege on their agreement to allow us to host the show here would be a very poor choice. Lets hope that this is all worked easily.


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## KW Farms

What are the 5 issues as to why they won't host the show there?


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## freedomstarfarm

Spoke to the AGS President and hopefully we can come to a fix. 
Spoke at length and he explained that it is all a board decision not his choice. 
The list of 5 things is almost silly and easily fixed. He said there are actually more issues. I asked him to email me a list of detailed issues to fix and I would let him know if we could solve them all. 
End result he emailed the entire board my email letter I had sent and they are going to discuss it. 
I will either get that list to resolve in a few days or a statement that no matter what we do there is no resolve. I am hoping they will follow thru with their commitment to let us host it here and that the issues will be solved fairly easily. 
Keep you fingers crossed.


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## StaceyRosado

good for you Logan! Hopefully they do follow through - its only the right decision on their part!


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## Mon Reve Farm

All impacted members need to email them and convey your concern, how this impacts you negatively and encourage them to work it out. It's so important that we do this and hope they take it into consideration when responding to Logan. If it really was a "board decision" anyone who know board members should contact them as well!


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## logansmommy7

freedomstarfarm said:


> I have spoken to the Vice President and feel that there is no reason the 5 problem issues stated in the letter to the NJ club can not be easily resoled. I have left messages for the President and left messages at AGS and am waiting to hear back. The rational is not backed and there are 5 minor issues easily resolved. I have been given the go ahead to attempt to resolve this by our club director who is too frustrated at this time to proceed. I am hoping to hear back soon and will keep all updated. For AGS to renege on their agreement to allow us to host the show here would be a very poor choice. Lets hope that this is all worked easily.


Still curious though, what ARE the 5 reasons? Even if they are ridiculous-enquiring minds want to know! :type:


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## RunAround

Not everyone knows the 5 reasons. They were in a letter sent to Nigerians Unlimited written and signed by the AGS president. They are not very good reasons.. I can say that.


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## logansmommy7

RunAround said:


> Not everyone knows the 5 reasons. They were in a letter sent to Nigerians Unlimited written and signed by the AGS president. They are not very good reasons.. I can say that.


but not sharable???? Don't understand...it's okay if not, just curious is all! :thumb:


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## StaceyRosado

was shared with me via an email with everyone here in NJ and I asked if I could share it and didnt get a favorable response from the one who originally received it from AGS - so not sure I should share it publically thats all.


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## logansmommy7

StaceyRoop said:


> was shared with me via an email with everyone here in NJ and I asked if I could share it and didnt get a favorable response from the one who originally received it from AGS - so not sure I should share it publically thats all.


Oh-ok-thanks. I just wondered why such a thing would be so private! I get it, I guess. :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado

beings Logan is trying to work things out - the communication between AGS and other members of Nigerians Unlimited (the NJ club helping to host the National Show and convention) being mad public could be construed as us not actually trying or willing to make things work. Its best to wait to see how things go with Logan's attempt at resolving the issues brought to the attention of NU and not circumvent any potential head way she has started.


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## logansmommy7

Totally agree-being level headed is best. I understand.


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## freedomstarfarm

I have found that a big part of the issue was a failure in the communication department. I am trying to resolve the issues and am hopeful that the AGS Nationals will still take place as planed. I will know more in a few days. I promise to keep you all updated.


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## RunAround

I've agreed to work with logan on the issue and hopefully we can get it all figured out and the show back on!! We will keep you updated for sure. 

Still, letter to the AGS wouldn't hurt to let them know how this is hurting it's members! Maybe if they realize how many people were going to go they will change their mind!


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## mnspinner

It's very difficult for us members to communicate effectively to the powers that be on this issue if the basis of the pullout is not made public. Reading between the lines, if AGS was initially reluctant to hold the show in NJ they should have stuck to that decision and avoided this. But WHY would they not wish to make NJ the Nationals site? It is an ideal location amidst a hotbed of goaters, particularly NDs and I should think it would draw well.
But for AGS members, we pay our dues, we vote our directors in, and we DESERVE an explanation. If the issues are easily solved, then my take is something else is going on - perhaps political. BOD people should not act as a power group - they should be working for their constituancy and communicate all issues with the membership. This secrecy biz is very troubling.
Historically I have found AGS to be a wonderful organization and even preferred to AGDA. I certainly hope this can be resolved because I should think it would be equally difficult to set up another Nationals site at this late date. Thanks to all who are working to resolve this.


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## RunAround

AGS is the one who needs to make a statement on the matter, so if you would like to know the issues bring it up with them.


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## freedomstarfarm

There is a lot of he said she said or actually the reverse. Both sides are claiming that their efforts of communication were not responded to and things were not being done. 

** I do not know where or why the breakdown of communication happened and I am not laying blame anywhere. 

** I am stepping up and now directly dealing with the AGS board to hopefully come to resolution on the issues they say need fixing. 

Our club Nationals chair was sent a letter received the other night stating that the AGS would not hold Nationals here this year and stated 5 problem issues. I will explain 1 in more detail then put my letter to AGS which will kinda explain the other issues stated. I am not at liberty to post the letter from AGS since it was not sent directly from AGS to me. The 5 issues are easily solved IMO and most likely only a result of the failure in the communication department are...

1 fairground facilities do not own their own pens the pens to be used are owned by the local 4H club and are very nice new Sydell pens. Our club had suggested that the $5 per pen fee would be given directly to the 4H in thanks for the pen usage and because supporting our youth is so important. 
--- AGS felt this was not right and that a major part of their income from the nationals was from pens. 
-- Our club suggested that the per pen fee be raised a little and the monies be split between 4H and AGS. This was agreed upon by certain people but never communicated or owed by the rest of the AGS board (lack of communication). 
*at all facilities even those that own pens there is usually a fee for pen usage. That can range from $1 per day per pen on all pens that are utilized wether for animals or supplies or just a bag; other locations charge a flat rate of say $2.50 for the duration of the event. These fees are the responsibility of the organization holding a even at the location and usually then charged to participants with additional fees added so the organization can make its part also. SO there is really no difference here it was all in wording and communication. Not the fault of our club or AGS as a group just a few involved parties. 

(here is my letter to AGS names removed)

Dear Board of Directors, 

I have spoken to some of you and appreciate your time. In speaking with the AGS president ---- I was made aware that there were more issues than those directly addressed in the letter to ----. 
I would like to address those specific issues listed since those are the only ones I know of until I am made aware of others by you. I am only going off my understanding of things and discussions that have taken place and please make me aware if these things are incorrect. 

1. Pens- We had suggested that a possible resolution here would be to charge a bit more than the original $5 per pen idea and possibly split the $ between AGS and the 4H as a appreciation to the 4H for the use of their nice new Sydell pens. It is my understanding that at any venue there is usually some sort of fee for pens incurred and if AGS has a specific amount that they would like to get from each pens usage please inform me of that amount. I am sure that we can come up with a number to charge show participants that makes AGS happy and gives a little to the 4H. Supporting our youth interested in goats is such an important aspect of an organization like AGS. 

2. Restrooms- The fairgrounds being a newer facility was supposed to have the restroom completed by the time of the show and may still do so. In the event the restrooms are not completed. The Nigerians Unlimited club will have nice trailered restrooms brought in for use at a cost of $1,000. I expect that the money raised from this event will more than satisfy AGS but if this cost is something that must be incurred by our club solely we shall do so. 

3. The proposed hotel is less then 10 minutes from the fairgrounds and I would think that is reasonably close. If this is too far for people than I can look into a possible shuttle service and see what the cost of that would be. 

4. I personally was unaware of the lack of communication between Nigerians Unlimited and the AGS National Show Chair. Now that I am willing to step up I guarantee I will bridge this gap and keep all parties promptly informed of everything. I did speak to ---- today and although he was on vacation he spoke to me briefly and said that he would recontact me upon his return on Monday the 30th of January. I did explain that I was going to go ahead and proceed with my attempt to solve the issues and hoped to hear from him at that time. 

5. I am willing to choose qualified licensed AGS judges to your satisfaction. I believe there needed to be an updated list of those potential judges that was not available until Jan. 1st so if I can be provided with that list I am happy to choose from it. 

I hope that this shows that these 5 things are easily worked out and that I personally and the Nigerians Unlimited club is willing to work on these issues to a resolve. 

There are many items that we have worked on to completion like the Logo which I am attaching for approval. If it is not acceptable we are happy to make any changes. 
We have worked extensively on awards and the show bill also and will have our preposed items here for your review soon. 
As stated in my prior email I have worked on and secured sponsors, vendors and raffle items. Although I was never made aware that the letter soliciting donors needed approval the letter I used was a letter I was given from the 2011 AGS Nationals board. 

I am hopeful to get a positive response to my efforts. I and Nigerians Unlimited are committed to making a wonderful AGS 2012 Nationals and Convention take place as planned. 
Please let me know of any thoughts and concerns not addressed. 

Logan Meyer



** Please understand that I am doing what I can and if you have further questions please contact me directly or post here but I am busy working on this and may not see it right away.


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## freedomstarfarm

To clarify THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO is to call AGS and simply state to them or leave a vm to them stating that you would be disappointed if the Nationals were not held as planed. 
Then your reasoning ie: you planed to come, you scheduled breedings around the time and location, or just a general disappointment that a organization like them could change or cancel their National show 5 months out with so much time put in and easily resolved issues.


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## Mon Reve Farm

Logan - thank you for sharing what you could.


I'm only speaking for myself when I say I understand that folks can't share communications not sent to them but it's easy to assume that there are some underlying issues if there was difficulty in getting them to NJ in the first place. Plus I really wanted to know in general if the items were of the sort that could be worked out.

When I sent my email I still considered this a rumor so that's how I referred to the situation. I conveyed how it would impact me personally, that I hope that whatever issues could be worked out and the show to go on as planned. I know it doesn't impact me as much as many others but I think it important every member speak up.


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## freedomstarfarm

The issues as hopefully kinda outlined in my letter to them are what I consider minor issues and are easily fixed.

The #3 item was that the hotels suggested were not close to the fairgrounds. I feel that being only 10 mins away is reasonable but have never been to a Nationals. I am not sure that the AGS was aware of the closeness or only saw that the hotel location was in PA and the fairgrounds in NJ and assumed it was not close. 
If anyone has could you let me know how close the hotels were to that location.

Not sure that there was a issue getting the Nationals here in the first place. I know that the NJ club has sent in proposals in the past but I feel that many locations send in proposals and they have to choose one each year maybe not the first year applied.

I should know by sometime next week if they want to allow this to proceed. With only 5 months out there is not much time but also no time for a different venus to work it out and as much as we have done I see our location the only feasible one for 2012. [Now if they do not allow us to precede and switch locations then the other location must have been in the works to start otherwise how can they complete from scratch what we can't in 5 months.] We shall see.

I have always liked my dealings with AGS as a registry and find the office helpful and fees reasonable. 
I am hopeful that they live up to my expectations as a reputable organization.


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## mnspinner

Logan, I really appreciate your efforts. How much in advance was this location initially approved? I can't believe an issue would be a hotel just ten minutes away. Exhibitors can certainly adjust to that. Restrooms I agree need to be in place, but sounds like that is covered. And I'm sure there is time to secure judges as well.
It would not put AGS in a good light to scrap this, if these are problems that can be worked out. Unless of course, there are underlying roadblocks I'm not aware of. I hope AGS isn't overthinking this.


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## freedomstarfarm

If there are underlying road blocks I also am unaware of them. Like I said I think it all was a failure to communicate. So I have broken down that road block and will be sure it does not happen again. 

The fairgrounds were supposed to have the restrooms in place and may still have them it is just a just in case thing. Weather has caused holdups with construction as to why they are not done. 

AGS claims they thought the hotel was 30 mins away but one is 10 and the other is 16. 

Originally we just got chosen as the location in August so less then a year to plan but we have been scrambling our butts off.


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## Randi

What news?


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## RunAround

None, AGS still says. "no comment." They actually hung up the phone on someone who asked. :shocked: :chin:


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## StaceyRosado

WHAT? how unprofessional!


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## RunAround

Yep! I encourage everyone to call them and ask that they release an official statement on the matter. :thumb:


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## mnspinner

AGS owes an explanation to its membership. If a decision is pending, then say so. If it's not a go, then say so. This secrecy is not putting them in a good light. I have long praised my relationship w/this registry; their handling or mishandling of this issue may tarnish their reputation.


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## RunAround

The plug has been officially pulled and still no statement from the AGS on the matter. Such a half butt registry...


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## freedomstarfarm

Yesterday I got a call from William the AGS president telling me that the Board was sticking to its original decision to not hold the 2012 Nationals in NJ. There was never a effort put forth on their part or open discussions made. I did the contacting and spoke to many board members and from my conversations was hopeful that they would work with us to resolve the issues that we (Nigerians Unlimited NJ club) were unaware of before we got the letter canceling Nationals. 

I asked William if this was a official decision and he told me that yes this was a final decision. I asked when the GAS membership would be notified and he told me eventually there would be a letter letting the membership know. 

I do not feel that all the members of the board were on board with this but can't say for sure. 

I am greatly disappointed with the fact that a organization such as AGS can without attempt to resolve issues that they never made us aware of just pull the plug on a event that so much time and effort have gone into. 

*** The NU NJ group will most likely still be holding a show and I will know this soon. It would be that weekend of June 22-24. More info on this when I have it our club still needs to discus what we want to do.


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## Fittin it in Farm

I'm so disappointed. :tears:


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## Mon Reve Farm

I'm very disappointed - this would have been our first national show to participate in.

Logan - thank you for all your hard work and for trying to keep us in the loop. It's very much appreciated.


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## KW Farms

Yes thank you Logan! I am disappointed. I can only imagine how everyone must feel who was involved and planning on them being in NJ. :hug:

...now to renew my AGS membership or not....  I like their registry, but also see this as very unacceptable treatment towards their members. Someone needs to come up with a better registry!!


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## SandStoneStable Farm

Interesting some MD folks have dropped membership and I hadn't understood why, other than the fact that no forms are online and everything needs to be mailed in. I wonder if I will renew... paperwork sitting on my desk still.


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## VincekFarm

OMG, this is terrible. They were always so pleasant to deal with a such but now.  
So if the AGS Nationals aren't to be held in NJ where are theygoing to be held?


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## mnspinner

If AGS were initially reluctant to hold the Nationals at this site then they should have turned it down from the getgo. Will they be held somewhere or not? It's getting late to organize such a large event unless another location is ready to go.
But since I don't know the particulars and I don't want to paint an entire registry with the same brush - especially since I've had nothing but good contacts with AGS - I will retain my membership.
On the other side of the coin, there have been many many goaters who've had bad dealings with ADGA over the years. So it can happen with any organization.
I just hope AGS learns from this and understands how their actions and how they communicate them can seriously affect their membership and reputation.
I also hope Nigerians Unlimited is successful in holding their own show and those who planned on Nationals will attend.


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## freedomstarfarm

Nigerians Unlimited has held many shows and they are all quite successful.

Kylee I have been seriously considering the time and effort it would take to create a new registry. It would be a huge undertaking but I have been going over all the aspects of it. Maybe we should talk. 

Oh and I was told that _if_ a AGS Nationals were to be held it would just be a small scale; meetings and possibly show. If they were to host one at a different location with this short amount of time then it would be easy to assume they had anterior motives to start. We shall see.


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## KW Farms

You can pm or email me if you want.


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## freedomstarfarm

^ :thumb: Let me get a few more thoughts together and I will be emailing you and Ashley.


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## KW Farms

Sounds good! :thumb:


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## KW Farms

Notice from AGS today:

The American Goat Society Board of Directors regrets to inform members that, after much discussion, we will not be holding the National Show and Convention in New Jersey as originally planned, due to a variety of problems with the planned venue. Continuing with this venue would not be financially feasible or in the best interests of the organization. The board acknowledges and thanks Nigerians Unlimited for their hard work trying to put this show together.

We will make an announcement at a later date regarding whether we will be holding a National Show and Convention at another time and location.

We are unable to hold a National Show and Convention in June this year, but we are negotiating the details of holding the event in conjunction with the National Goat Expo in Des Moines, Iowa, in October.
If you have questions regarding this, please direct them to Cheryl K. Smith at (541) 998-6081 or [email protected].


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## StaceyRosado

where was this notice posted?


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## KW Farms

On their website and the AGS yahoo group.


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## freedomstarfarm

> due to a variety of problems with the planned venue. Continuing with this venue would not be financially feasible or in the best interests of the organization


Well that sounds like a great excuse. Sorry but that pisses me off because that is just lame!!! :veryangry:

The venue we were going to use was contracted to us for a fee of $1000 for the entire week; that is a great rate!!!!!!! Find any location for near that. Most I contacted were $800 or more per day!

The only issues AGS stated was the lack of new restrooms which were supposed to have been built (beyond our control they will not be done). NU was offering to bring in nice trailered restrooms with vanities, sinks, changing areas, showers, the works and even offered to pay for them if needed. Nice clean restrooms!

The other venue issue they stated to us was that the venue did not own the pens the 4H did. We had originally suggested that the $5 per pen fee would be given to 4H. AGS wanted the money and our club agreed to split or again if necessary give the entire amount to AGS. Any venue there would be a pen fee for the organization folding the event; this is always passed down to the show participants so why is this a issue????

Sorry but that makes it sound like the venue which we choose was not up to par. It is a brand new fairgrounds as of a couple years ago. The Hunterdon County fair (the County I live in) is held there. New buildings everything new and nice including the brand new Sydell pens the 4H was going to let us use.

Really a shame.


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## mnspinner

Bottom line - it's almost always due to $! I would be fuming if I had planned to show there. Holding the show in the midwest doesn't help east coasters much.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Has anyone heard anything? Will they be holding a N. Show or not?


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## StaceyRosado

yes at the National Goat Expo in October at the Iowa State Fair grounds


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Well that is to far for me.... Oh well maybe next year.....


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Just wondering if you guys are still thinking of starting a new registry? I think it sounds like a great idea! and I would most likely be willing to become a member....


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## freedomstarfarm

Lots and lots of work to do it so a ways down the road if at all. 
Right now I have been really busy with stuff here and trying to list all aspects of registry. I love what ADGA offers just wish they were friendlier.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I agree... and I wish their prices were a bit lower... If you ever need any help with it just shoot me a PM or email


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## freedomstarfarm

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> I agree... and I wish their prices were a bit lower... If you ever need any help with it just shoot me a PM or email


Will do!!! Thanks! :thumb:


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## caprine crazy

If you do get a new registry going what breeds would you be willing to register? And would they have to be purebred like AGS or can they be Americans like ADGA?


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