# CAE



## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

hey ,
I had a lady buy a goat from me, an untested 4yr old boer doe, who had had troulbe kidding and keeping her kids helthy herself. she recently did cae testing and it came back positve - could this be a reason why her kids died?


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

bump!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am not sure katrina.......It is usually lameness signs ...paralysis....swollen joints.......ect.

I have a question.............did your doe shows any signs??? she is 4 years old .......and if there were no signs at all.......that would kinda make me suspicious...???...I could be all wrong......??? Did you see the vet test results.....??? if not.............If I were you.....I would definitely want to see that......... if you have it in your herd................it is nice to know ............if it were a true fact................. :worried: 
you may want to test the rest of your herd or related animals to the 4 year old doe.........that is if the results are true????? 

just a thought??? :shrug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

This doe, wasnt born on our place, and only lived here for 2 years. She never showed signs of lameness or any of cae symptoms.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sorry you are going through this.....Katrina.  
wow.... it is strange..........but for peace of mind.....test any offspring from her......or .......see the vet....paperwork.....to make sure......if it does show positive ....for sure.....then you will know to test others goats...... :shades:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Was only one test done on this doe? through what laboratory?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Like Toth says, I would want to see the paper work too!! Sorry my brain isnt working right now but isnt there either CAE or CL vacs that WILL come back false/positive and did this doe receive any that you know of??
In the meantime dont freak...make a plan...if you need to have your goats tested for your own peace of mind then do so.
I dont know very much about CAE but kids death are her responsiblity, I wouldnt think the two could be related but I could be wrong. 
Take your time on this to think it thru and keep doing your research, meantime dont let it intimidate you.
Did she know you didnt test when she bought her? Did she buy animals from other places that dont test and unknowingly purchase a positive?


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Yes, find out what lab did the testing. The Elisa testing is the most accurate - I believe 94% accurate. The other testing out there is only 50% accurate, so please see which lab did the testing (most use the Elisa nowadays).

I'm not sure if it would have caused the kids death. One of my aunt's does who tested positive for CAE - her only symptom was a terribly swollen udder (looked like mastitis but was not). She never had the swollen knees, lameness, etc. She had a kid but I think he died (can't remember for sure) her udder was too swollen to really nurse him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I found this info.............With CAE the udder..... is rock hard and little milk.......
this is the site I found it on.....under (answers),,,

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a ... _id=0088YP

Katrina ....did that doe have a hard udder.......and did the kids look like they were filling there tummy's .....when you had her...........??


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

i'll talk with her and find out which lab. 

the does udder wasnt hard, and the kids were all little pigs, although she delivered small twin doa's and the last set both died for different reasons. she really wasnt a great mother at all. 

I am getting my whole herds blood tested anyway, and she was unrelated to all of them, so i'll see how things turn out.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

I am going to paste what she sent me whn I emailed her the question;

"Hello,
Just wondering which Laboratory you used for the test?"

(i'm blocking out the vets name)

She replied 

"My vet ( the new doc at Ak Equine who is into goats, Dr.....) sent it in. You'd have to ask him who he uses but I think it's a university. You need to test all of yours, especially the buck."

:sigh: I'm tired of this already. 

happy hallowween everyone!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm sorry you have to go through this. That is sad.  From what I have heard so far and read, CAE is only spreadable through milk and blood. I don't think it passes with breeding (correct, everyone, right??) - there is also no evidence of it passing through saliva/breathing. . . . so, it is fairly unlikely she passed it on. But a good idea to test anyways. For peace of mind and you can tell any buyers your goats are clear. 

This lady knows for sure that the goat she bought from you was not born on your farm, right? This goat has probably had it from birth and it is not your fault at all, you didn't know. . . . hopefully she isn't blaming you or anything like that. 

You need a :hug: - Hope it all works out okay!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> "My vet ( the new doc at Ak Equine who is into goats, Dr.....) sent it in. You'd have to ask him who he uses but I think it's a university. You need to test all of yours, especially the buck."


 Katrina you should call her vet and ask what lab......also ask her for a copy of the test results...because I do not think the vet can release it to you...have her send you a copy through e-mail ......It seems odd to me that she would test "after" she bought her and not "before"..............how long has she had her?.....

It is good that you want to test your herd.....for peace of mind......is your buck out of that doe?
If not ...........I can't imagine why she would say that......???

It doesn't sound like that doe....... had any symptoms at all as you describe it.....?
kids can die for all kinds of reasons....you never know..........

I know it isn't easy ......hang in there and it is not your fault........and make sure she knows that doe was not born on your place...... :hug: ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

oh yeah ........a easy way to ask for CAE results is to say" I would like a copy for my records"


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

No the buck is from another doe, not from any of ours, i'll cal her and ask for a copy. :grouphug: thank you everyone!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> No the buck is from another doe, not from any of ours,


that is very strange??? :?


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

why would that be strange? we bought him from a totally different herd. so he wasnt related to any of our does. maybe i worded it funny?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> "My vet ( the new doc at Ak Equine who is into goats, Dr.....) sent it in. You'd have to ask him who he uses but I think it's a university.


 I should of put this quote with it...........you mentioned she said "You need to test all of yours, especially the buck." ..........(I said that is very strange).......it is very strange she would say that ???.......seems odd..............sorry you took it wrong.......


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

"You need to test all of yours, especially the buck." 
i took that part the most offensive of the whole message. I thoguht it was very rude, since they arent related at all and cae cannot be transmitted through mating.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

I am planning on sending this message to her,just to be safe; does anyone think this is offensive at all?

Hello again,

Do you think I could get a copy of the test results, for my records?

"need to test all of yours, especially the buck."

-why would you say that? CAE cannot be transmitted through mating, only red blood cell contact, like needles and tattooing supplies etc.

That doe you bought is unrelated to all of my animals and lived here a very short time. I had already planned for blood to be drawn in Nov. for my entire herd. If you'd like I can let you know the results when they arrive.

thank you.

Katrina


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Hello again,
> 
> Do you think I could get a copy of the test results, for my records?
> 
> ...





> I am planning on sending this message to her,just to be safe; does anyone think this is offensive at all?


I feel it is a little offensive.............I wrote up one for you.... if you would prefer..... feel free to use it....if not that's perfectly OK to....

Hello Again,
sorry to bother you,but I was wondering if I could get a copy of the test results,,so I can put it in my records files?
You had mentioned "need to test all of yours, especially the buck."?
Just wondered why you would say that?
CAE cannot be transmitted through mating, only red blood cell contact, like needles and tattooing supplies etc. 
That doe you bought is unrelated to all of my animals and lived here a very short time. I had already planned for blood to be drawn in Nov. for my entire herd.....I never had any CAE problems in the past ...........If you'd like I can let you know the results when they arrive.

thank you.

Katrina


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## QotL (May 27, 2008)

Katrina-

I think you are well within your right to say this.

BUT- I would reword that message. First, don't ASK for a copy. TELL her you need a copy for your records, because that doe came from another herd before yours, and you keep things up to date. It's a minor distinction but believe me, will have a huge impact on whether you get one or not. Kids ask, adults do not. (and I want you to know I still struggle with this... even as an adult!)

And I understand you are angry, but think of this as a professional relationship. What you do with your goats (including testing the herd now) is none of her business at this point. If she was to buy another goat from you, of course she would deserve to know then. But she is taking a huge liberty here telling you what to do with YOUR goats. None of her business. Do your absolute best to leave your emotions out of it while you are writing to her. Hard, I know. But you need to seem cool, calm, and clearheaded. I wouldn't bother to educate this woman on CAE. I think it's wonderful that you want to, though. You could say, "my understanding is that my herd is not at risk due to CAE, but I appreciate your concern and will take it into consideration". Leave it at that. Again.. not her business.

:hug: What a crappy situation! 

MEghan


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

hey thanks. Toth , thanks again i'll use that. Qotl- thank- good point.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> BUT- I would reword that message. First, don't ASK for a copy. TELL her you need a copy for your records, because that doe came from another herd before yours, and you keep things up to date. It's a minor distinction but believe me, will have a huge impact on whether you get one or not. Kids ask, adults do not. (and I want you to know I still struggle with this... even as an adult!)


 kids ask....adults do not.....??? I am an adult and it is a polite way to phrase it........I never want to sound demanding when I am asking for something .............just being polite......in my book.....sorry we disagree... 

you are very welcome Katrina good luck..sweety.....  ray:


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## QotL (May 27, 2008)

Toth boer-

I completely understand what you are saying. I'm an asker too! But it tends to set us up as doormats. When it comes to family/friends, I ask. When it comes to business relationships (including drs, etc etc) asking has never gotten me anything but a patronizing smile or the refusal to book an appt because I'm 'fine'. I'm not saying be mean or rude at all. And with this particular rude woman, she doesn't deserve to be asked.

That advice came to me, btw, came from both of MY parents.  As I said earlier.. it's still hard for me. But when I slip up and ask.. then feel like I have to give some explanation.. well. I'm always reminded why I say what I need instead.

Absolutely no hard feelings  It would be a boring world if we were all the same!

Meghan


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

nope.......no hard feelings at all....Meghan.........Katrina has read it all and she is her own person to decide for herself....as I had told her ........it is OK if she did use it .........or didn't use it......
For me asking nicely ....always seems to do me right.... :shrug: ..I don't know......each individual is so different in the way they carry themselves...... I guess........Who am I to say .... :shrug: ....I'm just human................LOL


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I would make sure that you test everyone through WADDL. They are very nice there and are always happy to answer any questions you may have. 

So that goat was only tested once? She should have been tested again to make sure that result was correct.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Katrina............have you heard anything yet?


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

woops. i have forgotten to send the message! i've been too busy to deal with this now-

i know now that she isnt blaming me for the cae , but is just dissapointed that her first goat has cae. she wasnt planning on becoming a breeder- just a few meat kids every year, and she isnt/hasnt shown any signs or symptoms. so its not a biggie now.....thank goodness. i'm just going to let it go.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Ok .....Katrina....  ...glad to hear everything is better for you......If she is only raising for meat ...then........ that worked out just fine.......  :thumbup:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

yeah , i thought she wanted to start a herd! glad it worked out okay too.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You really lucked out......


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