# over 24 hours not passed all of placenta



## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Hi... my goat Panda had her first baby early yesterday morning...I missed it..but I saw in the dirt a pile of sticky goo that was most likely most of her placenta but she still has long fleshy parts of it hanging out of her. 

I read different posts here and other places so I gave her warm molasses water last night..she didn't want it so I squirted some in her mouth with a syringe and then left the rest..she drank it by morning. I have gone out there a number of times and massaged her belly close to her utters. Not sure where or how I"m supposed to massage her uterus.

This morning I picked up a dose of oxytocin from the vet. She gave it to me for free ..she used to be the caretaker of these goats but moved..her clinic is still here though..so she told me to come pick up a dose. She is so nice  However it's a long needle and I'm so bad with those..I've done it before with them on a bigger goat but Panda is small and she jerked and I hit bone and it bent up instead of down into the muscle I meant for it to go in...I pushed the meds in..but I don't know if it just went under the skin. If it did is that okay? will she still get the dose she needs? Did I hurt her bone?

She is laying down more now..up and down a couple of times..so maybe she is starting to cramp.

Oh and I think the baby was premature. I had her due date down for the 27th and she had her on the 19th. She is very tiny and her hoofs seem more soft then usual..they got cut up easily on the ground. Our neighbor we share the pasture with was out the night before with his quad driving his friends around the stalls and I think it scared her and put her into early labor  so I don't know if that has anything to do with her retained partial placenta


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

How's the baby doing? Is it nursing? Belly feel full?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The difference of the 19 & the 27th is not crucial.
Babies feet ARE soft!
The long flshy parts hanging out is pretty normal.
The pile of sticky goo was probably where the kid was born, again normal. 
Can you desribe "tiny"? What breed?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Make sure the baby is drinking! You may also want to "bump" the momma. This is to check for more babies. Is the momma acting okay?


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

I had a boer doe retain hers for almost 48 hours. My friend came and tied it in a knot so she wouldn't step on it and also we gave her pennicillin. There was a reason I waited before resorting to oxytocin (something I read either here on online), and I was glad I did, as it came out naturally rather than making her pass it with more contractions (I think thats what the oxy does?).


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes, oxytocin stimulates contractions and milk let down. It is a natural hormone that occurs in the body, giving an injection of it just makes them have harder contractions to help them clean. One time when I had a doe who went over 24 hrs without cleaning my vet had me give her a shot of oxytocin every hour for a few hours then every 6 hrs until she cleaned.

When giving injections in the muscle it is best to give them in the neck. Right in the middle, there is a lot of muscle there and they can't kick their leg or jump as easily. They also don't seem to notice, especially if you pinch a little bit of skin while you do it.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Sorry...my other job has kept me busy today...plus other goat duties...

Tenacross: yes baby nursing..didn't check if tummy felt full..but after the first whole day of not pooping she finally started having maconium at evening time an then exploded everywhere last night. She is a little raspy like she asparated a little..and at one point she would only suck a couple of sucks..stop and then suck again..over and over. 

nancy d: don't know breed..these goats that I help take care of are my landlords and they are all mixed. This Mommy is mine since I raised her after her mom died and the caretaker my landlord was using said she was mine now. She is short and interbred though. I have seen plenty goats born here and she is about 1/2 the size of a good sized healthy one. Like a little puppy with long legs. The sticky good was mud covered..it stuck together like it was placenta parts. but there is def more stuck in her.

Woodhavenfarm: I don't know how to bump the momma. I have been rubbing her tummy and feeling around and I don't feel any other baby. She is a twin and her mom almost always had triplets. she is acting okay...eating and drinking just fine so far. The baby is nursing and the milk is coming out. She often gets the nipple in her mouth sideways and it goes squirting.

goatgirlzCA: Yea that is what oxy does..I think that is what humans take to put them in labor. Poor thing this is all nasty and flies are going crazy around her and in the little kennel my husband made for her. I don't have pennicylian on me...I think I have to drive down town to the feed store for that...you can get it there right? I don't want to buy it through the vet prob so expensive up here..and don't expect another favor from my vet friend who gave me the oxy. My husband is being so patient with all the $$ I spend on these goats that aren't even ours. I already have 10 diff meds I have to give our two cats!

ptgoats45: I wish I would have known about that area to give the shot. That is where I give my cat insulin..but I pull up the skin to do it and have a short needle. The vet has given goats lots of shots here and always does it in the rump. I have given a couple for her when she couldn't be here (she used to be the one to caretake these goats) so I just went for the same place. one shot is probably not going to do it for her though. Is Oxy and expensive drug? I'm thinking I need to ask if I can buy a bottle of it for more doses for her if she goes over 48 hours.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

My vet usually just gives me a bottle of oxytocin. I think normally it is about $20 for a 100 ml bottle. Giving shots in the hind leg can be risky. There is a nerve that runs down the leg, kind of in between the back muscle and the side of the leg, if you hit this you could permanently cripple the goat. Plus, it's easier to hold them still to give it in the neck than it is to try to give it in the hind leg.

With the kid, if you suspect she may have aspirated some liquid I would watch her closely for any signs of pneumonia.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Since ive never given Oxytocin I cant say except it's going to be cheaper if you get just a dose from your vet. The window for that has probably closed so please ask vet.
Search for placenta. Some does eat it.
If you have LGD it has already been consumed.
Just because a doe has always dropped twins or trips does not mean she will not decide to have a single.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

You can continue the oxytocin, as ptgoats said, or you can simply put her on a strong course of antibiotics, and let her body deal with it. Either way is acceptable, and retained placenta is a common complication which is not usually something to get too worried about. 

Good luck with her!


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I text'd the vet at 4:30 and asked if I could buy more oxitocin but she never responded. Hopefully I hear from her tomorrow. So the window of opportunity may be closed for that by now anyways? Tomorrow morning will make 48 hours.

It was out more..definitely longer..but still so much in there. The caretaker friend came over and super slowly and gently pulled it out a little farther and got it broken off so it's not dragging on and getting stepped on. I read that you aren't supposed to do that..but he said you can help a little very very gently. He said he has antibiotics if we need..but I might need to go get some myself because he can't always get here..he lives kind far and has a lot of other properties and goats to care for. 

He listened to the baby's lungs and they sounded okay he said..they did sound better to me too..and the baby was nursing this evening for way longer spurts of time. At night I put her in a sleeve sweater to help keep her warm...but she is so small she hardly fits any of them!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

No, do not pull on the placenta. And best to give the antibiotics now, as a preventative, rather than wait till she is sick with infection. Metritis is common with retained placenta.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

keren said:


> No, do not pull on the placenta. And best to give the antibiotics now, as a preventative, rather than wait till she is sick with infection. Metritis is common with retained placenta.


I told him a couple of times that I read that you aren't supposed to do that...he seemed confident..and was so super slow when he did it..super concentrating on barely giving it tension to just help a little. I don't think he will do it more he knows he can't pull it out..I told him what I'd read here..so he was the one who asked me to try and get more oxytocin from my vet. I hate to have the antibiotics get into the baby...but it seems like there might not be any choice now.

So it looks like I will have to do another shot of some kind tomorrow ...you say the neck..the middle of the neck..I looked at her and I see it has a bone ridge in the middle..so do you mean to go on the side of that..pull out some skin and muscle and go down with the needle? Do I not have to bury the needle? I was supposed to put the oxy into the muscle...not just through the skin like my cats insulin..I don't know what I'm supposed to do with the penicillian (last time vet did it she did it in back leg muscle) I hope I can do it right..she does not have a lot of muscle on her. I tried to find some under the front arm like I saw online..but there is not much to grab on her. I wish I could use my cats insulin needles..they are very short.

I found this picture online....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is now too late for Oxytocin. You need Lutalyse or Estrumate. These need to go IM. Lutalyse would be 2cc. Depending on the size of your goat would depend on the amount of Estrumate. I know that Nigerians are 1/2cc of Estrumate.

It is getting imperative that the afterbirth is out now. You may even want to flush her once you get the cervix back open.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I give it right in the middle of the neck, midway from the head to the shoulder. Right where that upper location shows for a SQ shot. There shouldn't be a bone in the center of the neck as the spine is on the top of their neck. I just use one hand to insert the needle, and with the other I pinch a little bit of skin, higher up from where the shot is going so they are paying attention to that and not the needle. It is best to have someone hold her or tie her up really short. The needle has to be longer because it needs to be able to go completely through the skin and into the muscle. When I give shots, I don't stab them. I usually rest the side of my hand on their neck and insert the needle, firmly but gently. It goes in nice and easy and you can control how far.

Penicillin should always be given SQ. I usually give it over the ribs, right under the skin. Just pinch up a tent of skin and put the needle in at a 45 degree angle. Personally, I would ask the vet for a shot of Excede. It is used in cattle for metritis and is a lot more effective. You only have to give two shots 72 hrs apart, rather than giving the penicillin 2 x a day for 5 days. Excede does have to be given under the skin behind the ear. If you are not confident doing this, I would have the vet come out and give it or someone who is experienced at giving shots in this location. It can be tricky and is a pretty sensitive area. I think if need be, you can just give it under the skin anywhere, but behind the ear is the best place. I would also ask about getting an antibiotic solution to use as a uterine flush. The one time I had to do this, the vet gave me a horse AI sheath to insert into the does uterus, the solution was in a little bottle with a pointed tip on it that fit right in the end of the sheath. All I had to do was take the cap off and squeeze the bottle to get the solution in her uterus.

You may also try tieing the part of the placenta that is hanging out in a knot. Some people will take a plastic baggy full of water and tie that to it to add some weight.


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

Jonara, I have got to tell you, I am am impressed with how hard you try and with so little information. You put yourself out there asking questions trying to get a grasp on a difficult situation. You open yourself up to criticism and accept it so gracefully. You are in a tough spot, renting a place and dealing with a bunch of animals that have been regularly neglected and so are unthrifty. Keep learning, keep asking and keep trying. The animals will only benefit from your efforts. 

With regard to your situation, I know you are not responsible for most of these animals but it does sound like you have some influence with their caretaker. My suggestion is this. Gather up and sell EVERY SINGLE buck on the place, just the intact ones, to keep any more inbreeding at bay. Then use that money to buy one ( or more if needed...based on the number of does to be serviced) good unrelated buck. And a bunch of minerals and dewormer. The healthier animals will then be able to repopulate to the levels needed to keep the property clear. Then make sure that all male babies are either banded or sold early enough to prevent accidental breedings. Also, after they have had a chance to get healthy, any doe who can not deliver and raise her own babies should be culled and sold. This will all make the herd easier to care for and more productive in the future.

I know you didn't ask for this opinion, and it is not really related to this thread or your other one. And I hope I have not overstepped. You just seem like a genuine caring person and I wish I could help you more.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice by all, good luck with her, keep us updated.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Very well said Mimi.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

i would dosagree slightly with karen (sorry). i would not go the lute route. in my experience as long s they are on antibiotics it doesnt matter if it doesnt all come out. her body will slowly break it down and eithdr reabsorb or pass as discharge. but antibiotics are imperative


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

ksalvagno: well my vet answered my txt from yesterday afternoon and told me to come get some more oxy and some antibiotic. I don't get to talk to her because she is super busy when she is on island..everyone wants an appointment with her..so I'm talking through a tech. I asked her if it was still worth trying with oxy after 48 hours and she said yes..but tomorrow the anitbiotic. She gave me LA 200 for that. did't I read someone say they used the oxy to clean them after too? that must mean just help get rid of more. How do you flush? Just clean that area?

ptgoats45: so you go straight in when you do the neck..all the way..bury the long needle? If I can get a hold of her well enough I could concentrate on all these instructions. I will have more help when I do the anti biotics because I will do it in the morning when my husband is still here...I had to do the oxy now and only had my son here..he doesn't do anythign with the goats so doesn't really understand how firm he has to hold her..I end up putting her on her side in front of me with my leg over her end. I did then and gave her the oxy in the skin pulled up under her front arm.

The vet gave me LA 200 which I believe is stronger then pen right? I was going to go to the feed store and get some pen when she txtd me. I have 3 shots to give 3 days in a row if the rest of her placenta doesn't come out. 

and as far as that..there is no more to tie a knot in or a bag since the caretaker came and pulled it off and made it shorter so it wouldn't keep dragging and get stepped on.

I really can't pay anyone to come out to do a special shot...I'm just helping and I ended up adopting this gal out of necessity when her mom died and she was just going to be left to 'nature' because the vet had no time to raise another one. (many of you have heard my story so I don't want to be too repetitive) I don't think I would be able to get the uterine flush stuff from the vet either..when she was the care taker of the goats her routine was antibiotics every time. She didn't have a lot of time for them..but had just taken over watching over them as a favor for my landlord when he moved. She doesn't even take care of goats through her practice...just dogs and cats. She does have horses though and owned 3 goats of her own. Is the uterine flush thing something you can get from a feed store?

Used2bmimi: Thank you so much mimi..I think we talked on my other thread about my other adopted daughters horns. You have been so sweet and helpful! I don't care who tells me what to do lol! Please tell me! Tell me when I do something wrong...I want to learn and do the best I can for these creatures. I know I do so much wrong..so the only way I can learn is to ask  and you guys are so patient with me..and helpful! I sometimes want to run away from this place..but thats only when I'm over tired and worried I don't know what I'm doing. I love it here and love the surprise goat family I sort of inherited. I keep telling myself that I can only do what I can do and sadly I have gotten used to seeing some die..which before I don't think I could have handled so feeling a bit stronger about it and accepting is a good thing. I used to be able to call the vet and she would come out and humanely put them down..now I will have to watch it drag on and them die naturally which sucks.. and knowing me I will be out there forever with them until they die in my arms.

Don't even worry about giving me that advice..you haven't over stepped one bit! any time you have to give advice..I will listen and do what I can. Let me tell you whats been done so far. Just before the vet left..the last batch of babies she finally started getting banded. So we didn't have any new intact males. The vet finally made contact with someone to possibly get rid of a bunch of the males..but she gets so busy and she just really does not want to sell them since they will be eaten..it's hard for her..me too! I couldn't imagine doing it..but I had to do something because they were gang raping, knocking over and trampling the old lamancha female. So I told her let me do it..I was able to get rid of 5 of the intact ones for her to her contact who bought them for 50 bucks each to resell (we can get about 160 each here) She said I could keep the money which I would have just put back into the goats..but I told her to take it..she was moving and put a lot into these goats over 3 years and was treated like crap by my landlord in the end which I felt horrible about..plus she is still doing favors for me today..like giving me the meds I needed for panda. So we only had the older male papa of everyone..and a new guy she had brought in, Paisley, who was supposed to take over being the billy and then a baby I did not catch that day to sell. 

Now the new caretaker has been here since July..he just took last grown baby that was intact and sold him to be a billy.... he says he is going to get rid of the main old billy and Paisley but they are still here. (I did just have to nurse Paisley back to health from major bottle jaw and not being able to swallow even) He is super busy on other properties far away and I don't live close by him. So I don't know when it is actually going to happen but I am going to start pressuring him because he brought in two of his males. One to take over being billy but the other one..a baby he raised.. was so depressed that he took his 'friend' away..that he brought him here too... So now I have 4 males again  And the two he brought are huge healthy goats who want to 'play' with me..the bigger one that he raised them jumps at me like a baby would play but jumps way higher then I am tall and it's pretty darn scary. His wife is even scared of him. He swears he hasn't hurt anyone..but right away as I'm trying to hold another male to fix his horn bar I got my hand rammed by his horns as he is trying to ram the goat Im working with and I'm all bruised. He makes mating noises at human females too he says and he already started a little yipping at me  He's gorgeous and sweet..but like right now I hear a goat screaming over frmo the other side and I'm afraid to go walk over there and see if someone is stuck in the fence. anyways..thats another story and another thread..so now it looks like I am going to end up with two very strong willed males. I think he wants to separate them though. with certain females. 

He took a bunch of my females left a couple..and brought in 5 of his. I have a couple of teenager girls that might get preggers soon too. He will band the baby boys and burn the horns and I hope give tetnus shots..we did talk a little about that. He has been able to bring grain a couple of times and hay once. He's done a lot of work on fencing to get another pasture opened that was all over grown so they have mostly been gorging on that for the last week+ He planted some plants here that grow like crazy on his property but aren't doing well here. He brought me some new seedlings to try and plant. Plants he's researched as very healthy and some evne help with worms. He brought probiotic powder. I think the last tub of grain might have had minerals in it? it looked like it had some darker granuals in it. A pink mineral salt lick. He left two kinds of dewormer..a white milky one and the purple stuff for major probs and all the girls just had the kind of wormer that comes in pellet food. I already have levimesole wormer from when the vet was here. There are other things he's done for them...natural stuff too...but I know he's trying to get the herd in order and not inbred.

Okay I have taken a couple hours to write this in between phone calls so not going to proof read...my momma panda is crying and crying out my window for me..gonna go check her. here are some pics of her and baby:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very cute baby. The flush won't work unless the cervix is open and by now it is closed. The antibiotics will probably take care of it.


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

Very cute goaties! Look pretty good too.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

ptgoats45 said:


> You may also try tieing the part of the placenta that is hanging out in a knot. Some people will take a plastic baggy full of water and tie that to it to add some weight.


I couldn't get back on because our power went out :\ so now her placenta tentacle hanging out that had been shorted to about maybe 2 inches is hanging down to the bottom of her bag again., It's longer. I might be able to tie a baggie to it..not sure. but will check it out. it has come out more though! I just wish it would have worked out..I'm really dreading the LA 200 doses..vet says they are thick and burn. There is a lot in the injection to give too and I imagine I have to go slow.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I've given the LA 200. Yes it is thick, you need to make sure all the air is out before you inject. It burns, but I give food during the shot, and after the first time, the goat I was giving the shots to didn't seem to notice as much.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> I've given the LA 200. Yes it is thick, you need to make sure all the air is out before you inject. It burns, but I give food during the shot, and after the first time, the goat I was giving the shots to didn't seem to notice as much.


The vet already made the injections for me but I will check for air bubbles. I think my goat just knows we are holding her tight and screams from that. I don't want to bend the needle on a bone again like I did the first day I tried it by myself hoping she would just be calm and let me do it. So I want to hold her down..poor thing :\


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

yep it is tough to doctor them when they are screaming bloody murder. Hang in there...only two more injections to go!


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Used2bmimi said:


> yep it is tough to doctor them when they are screaming bloody murder. Hang in there...only two more injections to go!


So my caretaker friend called me this morning to see how she was doing. He cam right over and helped me do the IM shot!! I never had proper training from the vet..I just saw her do it but not paying super close attention since I didn't know I'd be doing it..and did it myself on her big goat a couple times with no problem..that was 3 years ago though.

It went well though..he held her on his lap..helped me find a good muscle spot on her leg and once I got it in..we had her food there too..she kept eating and calmed down and then I was able to slowly inject it. actually before I pushed the syringe he had me pull the needle out a tiny bit to give some space in the muscle that was broken away by the needle for the meds to go in easier.

So now I think I can do it myself with my husband holding her for the next two days.

He also gave her rear end an iodine and soap wash..so she is all clean..and he cut off the nasty thing that was hanging. However now..before the meds even..she started having diarrhea  So I gave her pepto bismal. I hope the baby is okay with all of the junk getting into the milk


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

shot number two done..had my husband hold her and wasn't as smooth as with the caretakers help..but we did it. Her diarrhea cleared up an she ended up with another couple few inch long string hanging out..but then it was gone by morning..then with her exertion during her shot this morning..she squirted out a good pile of thick goo so maybe it's all out!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is clearing everything out.


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah!!! You did it! Good job.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Whew!! and I learned a lot along the way too!


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