# Tell me who you would keep?



## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

I was given these three does, and I plan on selling one or two of them. They all have good blood lines and I do show. I am just wondering based off these pictures who you would keep. Sorry the pictures aren't great. Also they are dry as they are going to kid soon. They are turning two this year. They weren't standing well either.


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

I like the first two the best.


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## VincekFarm (Jun 27, 2011)

It really depends on how their udders turn out, but based on these pictures the 1st doe is the one I'd keep.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree.. The first two are best.. And I think I like the first one a bit more.. Lol!

But I also agree, wait and see their udders


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks that is what I was thinking too.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Do you guys know? I am new at this. Do udders change much with each freshening?


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

The first one is the best conformed I believe from these pics, however, if I am being honest I would keep the second one, if you are going to keep two I would keep both of those, the third I would sell. The first two I believe are really close in quality. I think the first one's rump looks better in the pic, mainly because of the difference in stance. I personally just like the looks of the second one better but that is just personal preference. I agree to see what their udders look like and if they are about to kid it wouldn't hurt to look at what they produce also. ( I mean what they produce in kids not in milk)


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

The second one has more length than the first one, but the first one has more depth than the second one. I personally like the first one best, but I'd wait and check out the udders, might change my mind.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I like the first 2 as well....


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

They are full sisters. I am having the same debate. I have a daughter from the first one, so I am excited to see the babies out of the second.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Yes, udders can change with each freshening... Most of the time it's not much  and hopefully for the better


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Can you get a different pic of the first one? It's at an odd angle I think, if like to see her like the other two to get the best idea. She looks very short bodied and odd in that pic.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I say the first one...


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Can you get a different pic of the first one? It's at an odd angle I think, if like to see her like the other two to get the best idea. She looks very short bodied and odd in that pic.


I agree. I will try to get another. She is getting a little wide she is due on 3/9.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Here are some more a little straighter


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I think if her back legs were placed back a bit further she would look a tad longer and it would add some angulation to her rear legs  I still
Like her the most


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I so disagree with all of you! I think she is short bodied, narrow hipped, small shoulders....she doesn't look balanced at all. LOL I would take 2 and 3 before this one. . . Now we know why I am not a judge! Hehe


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

Yes, She's short bodied, but I still like her better than the third one.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Well after relooking and seeing those new pics I say even stronger that I like two better. I would have kept her to begin with if they were mine because I just like her look better, but I think she may be the slightly better doe after all.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

kccjer said:


> I so disagree with all of you! I think she is short bodied, narrow hipped, small shoulders....she doesn't look balanced at all. LOL I would take 2 and 3 before this one. . . Now we know why I am not a judge! Hehe


Lol, I said nothing about it  However, I think you'd make a nice judge 

I'm going to agree with this ^^. I'm leaning toward 2 and 3 over this first doe as well.


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

How about just keep #2? Since we all pretty much agree on her...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

#2 has the best conformation but a horrible udder it looks like...


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Lol 2 actually in my opinion has pretty good attachments but has really long teats. I am not a judge by any means though. It is really fun to read this because as I have milked them this fall I have had the same thoughts.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> #2 has the best conformation but a horrible udder it looks like...


I have to ask...doesn't number two have a worse topline and pasterns? Or am I seeing things?

Lol...I am just trying to learn, so no insults intended! I would personally keep them all


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> I have to ask...doesn't number two have a worse topline and pasterns? Or am I seeing things?
> 
> Lol...I am just trying to learn, so no insults intended! I would personally keep them all


No insult taken. I see that too. She has worse pasterns. I think she was bred to small and has rickets. Or the goat equivalent anyway. I think her top line is a little weaker also.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

NubianFan said:


> Well after relooking and seeing those new pics I say even stronger that I like two better. I would have kept her to begin with if they were mine because I just like her look better, but I think she may be the slightly better doe after all.


I agree about her look. I don't know how to pin it down. Maybe just that she has a more classic Nubian look in my opinion.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

rdmtnranch said:


> No insult taken. I see that too. She has worse pasterns. I think she was bred to small and has rickets. Or the goat equivalent anyway. I think her top line is a little weaker also.


Well, let me just show you my does topline and you'll feel real good about hers...LOL...I had no idea about nuttin' when I bought her. But her udder is decent, and her teats are good for milking, so she suits me...but just look at the topline! (Don't tell Heidi I am doing this...her feelings would be hurt since I tell her how pretty she is all the time  )


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

Oh she is beautiful. She does need a little work on her top line, but beautiful besides that. You don't milk her back. I promise I won't utter a word


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...thanks  She's a really nice goat


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> I have to ask...doesn't number two have a worse topline and pasterns? Or am I seeing things?
> 
> Lol...I am just trying to learn, so no insults intended! I would personally keep them all


#2 has pretty strong and upright pasturns, the topline looks like it's weaker because she could be higher at the withers, whereas the 3rd doe has more prominent withers, giving her the uphill and sloped topline. If you pinched/scrunched the 2nd doe down just a touch, her topline would look like the 3rd does.

All in all, it pretty much boils down to who you like the best


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I would sell #2. If you are into showing those teats won't help her any. They are about 6" too long and she might even be harder to milk because of the length of those teats. I would wait until they all freshen though and post new clipped pics of their udders and decide from there. When they are dry it's very hard to tell if they have good attachments or not.

#1 has the best depth of body out of the three, she has a nice long LEVEL topline (with Nubians it can be very hard to get that "swiss" type rump), a decent neck and the shortest rear pasterns. 

As coming 2 year olds they will still do a lot of growing. All of mine always seemed to have a growth spurt after they kidded the first time. Nubians are slower maturers than the other breeds and can often take until they are 5 years old to be fully grown. Udders do change with each freshening, they can gain more capacity, if they have good attachments they can gain more extension to the foreudder, but if they have poor attachments as a first freshener they will likely get worse as a second freshener.

If you haven't already I would be getting some copper and selenium into all three of these girls, it will really help their legs/pasterns to strengthen.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

I would wait until they freshen. Not only will this give you more babies to sell, but you will be able to evauate their udders which is the most important part of dairy goats showing or not. I personally like #2 the best looking wise, but I am a shower and not a milker. The other two just don't appeal to me conformation wise. However if her teats are really bad then I would go with #1 because of her larger barrel and bone. The third just really doesn't really look like a goat I would like to keep. The legs are really long. But as I said before. I would keep them until they kid and then evauate the udders. If you show then keep in mind conformation when making the choice.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

They were shown by their previous owner and number 1 always places above #2. #1 has a lopsided udder though. They all milk easy enough. I think you are right though I will let them freshen and repost and see what the opinion is then.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

I like the second girl :3


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Number two does have long teats but they look like they would be easy to milk, I am not sure what a judge would think about it though, I would think long teats would be better than a lopsided udder, but what do I know. I am not a show person or very experienced with goats either.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

Judges often like the small teats, but they are a pain to milk and I personally don't understand that part of showing. I think that waiting until they kid is a good idea.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I would rather have big easy to milk teats than please the judges, but showing isn't my goal so, I guess that is the difference,


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

She totally just did.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I'll fix it


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

*Doe #1
Cons:*
Short bodied
Needs more brisket
Neck could blend better into the shoulders
Needs smoother blending from the chest floor into the brisket
Jawline could be more defined
Head lacks some femininity
Needs more power in the front end assembly
Appears to be narrow in the hips and pins
Withers could be prominent 
Possibly toes out in the rear legs, I'm not 100% sure without seeing rear pictures though
Shoulders look a bit weak

*Pros:*
Lots of depth into the rear barrel
Good body capacity
Nice, straight front legs
Strength in the chine
Nice uphill stature
Nice rump angle
Strong pasturns
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Flat bone
Long rump
Good thurls

*Doe #2*
*Cons:*
Needs more brisket
Rump is a bit steep
Could use a bit more of an uphill stature
Withers could be a bit more prominent
Chest floor could blend better into the heart girth

*Pros:*
Feminine head
Long, lean neck
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Good length of body
Nice body capacity
Good amount of depth
Good angle in the rear legs
Strong pasturns
Strength in the chine
Good topline
Nice shoulders
Good elbows
Dairy character
Good flat bone
Long rump
Good thurls

*Doe #3
Cons:*
Steep rump
Needs more brisket
Neck could blend better into the brisket
Needs a longer neck

*Pros:*
Nice withers
Good topline
Nice uphill stature
Nice rear legs, good angle
Nice body capacity
Good body depth
Nice blending of the chest floor to the girth
Good front legs
Strong pasturns
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Good shoulders
Tight elbows
Nice flat bone
Long bone pattern
Dairy character
Femininity 
Long rump 
Good thurls

I hope I covered everything, I'm having a bit of an off day.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, thanks for clarifying Lacie


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Did #1 nurse a single kid? If so, that could be why her udder is lopsided. It may even out this time, or it may not. I have a doe that is slightly uneven from nursing a single kid and she is still a permanent CH so that doesn't necessarily affect the judging. Judges don't like teeny tiny teats, but they don't like big fat ones, or big long ones either. The teats should be of moderate size when compared to the udder and the goat and should be easy for both hand and machine milking. I had a Nubian with longer teats one time and she was somewhat difficult to milk and very hard to machine milk when she wasn't super full. The teats were so long if you didn't squeeze her just right the milk would go back up in the udder. When I was selling her I had some people come out to look at her and another doe who had smaller teats, I thought they would be able to milk the longer teated doe easier since there is more to get a hold of but they couldn't even get a drop out of her but could milk the shorter teated doe much easier so they went with her instead. Thickness of skin makes a huge difference in milking ease too.


I would really like to see #2 and #3 gain some body capacity, they are really lacking in that area.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, what are their registered names?


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

I think that they call could use some body capacity. Even the first one.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

ptgoats45 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what are their registered names?


Sorry haven't checked this for a while.

#1. Legacy hill quartz 
#2. Legacy hill jade
#3. Legacy hill tanzanite


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

ptgoats45 said:


> Did #1 nurse a single kid? If so, that could be why her udder is lopsided. It may even out this time, or it may not. I have a doe that is slightly uneven from nursing a single kid and she is still a permanent CH so that doesn't necessarily affect the judging. Judges don't like teeny tiny teats, but they don't like big fat ones, or big long ones either. The teats should be of moderate size when compared to the udder and the goat and should be easy for both hand and machine milking. I had a Nubian with longer teats one time and she was somewhat difficult to milk and very hard to machine milk when she wasn't super full. The teats were so long if you didn't squeeze her just right the milk would go back up in the udder. When I was selling her I had some people come out to look at her and another doe who had smaller teats, I thought they would be able to milk the longer teated doe easier since there is more to get a hold of but they couldn't even get a drop out of her but could milk the shorter teated doe much easier so they went with her instead. Thickness of skin makes a huge difference in milking ease too.
> 
> I would really like to see #2 and #3 gain some body capacity, they are really lacking in that area.


Thanks. That does help, milk does go back up in her udder.


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