# Treating for Cocci/Strongyles



## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

I have a 3 month old kid who has not been feeling well. He was very nice and lean and muscular and he started having diarrhea. At the same time I had one of my does who quite eating her feed and was laying around much more than normal. She went down hill quickly and I lost her even with vet care. She showed signs loss of appetite and eventually quit eating. She laid around and became weak even after treatment. She also showed signs of edema under her jaw. We tried everything. We treated her for upper respiratory infection as I had a separate doe in another pen that was treated and also had edema under her jaw. But than day vet came she had green snot come from her nose. I was thinking bottle jaw. However my doe who died didn’t have the edema until the night before she passed. She did have anemia which we were treating. My vet does work with goats but doesn’t seem very knowledgeable. My little buck that I’m inquiring about has been laying around more and had diarrhea and I took a sample of a “bread loaf” poop from him. Fecal showed cocci/ Strongyles. So we’re treating with Corid per the vet and I treated with ivermectin 1.87% paste. I treated for worms when my 1st goat got sick and I treated everyone even tho they were separated. This summer in Michigan has been harsh with high heat durning the day and temps down in the 50’s and a period where we had lots of rain. I also have all my goats the CDT shot and will follow up with a booster for the kids. I also have all Copper Bolus. My little guy will be finishing treatment today and he still acts sluggish. He is eating and drinking. My vet said if he doesn’t improve I should just Cull him as some goats have a hard time with being wormy from heredity. I never heard this before. I’m new to goats as I started by rescuing 2 from a terrible situation. I have been giving Vit B every other day for the little buck and also probiotic paste. My vet said don’t waste my money on probiotic paste. I guess I’m at a loss. My doe I lost was my rescue baby. I am open to any thoughts as of what I can try. I did add electrolytes to the water and he drank some but my others wouldn’t really drink it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Probios paste is something that you should always have. I hope this comment bumps up this post so others can see it, and suggest treatment further. But for diarrhea I do suggest feeding FirMeadow's GI Soother.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Probios paste is something that you should always have. I hope this comment bumps up this post so others can see it, and suggest treatment further. But for diarrhea I do suggest feeding FirMeadow's GI Soother.


Where do you get this?


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

How much does he weigh?
What's his temp?
What's his eyelid color?
How many mg per kg or per pound Corrid are you using?
What strength is the Corrid you're using?
How much of the ivermectin paste did you give?
Probiotics can't hurt and could help for sure. I would use it. Just get a goat specific one.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

What has the kid been eating?
Has his diet been changed recently and or suddenly?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

FirMeadowLLC - click here


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Ivermectin may not work in your area, maybe try another chemical class

Worm resistance is hereditary, however, any goat can get worms. Your weather has been similar to ours up here in Maine, and the BarberPole worms are on screech this time of year in the north.

He may be sluggish from the heat?


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Ivermectin may not work in your area, maybe try another chemical class
> 
> Worm resistance is hereditary, however, any goat can get worms. Your weather has been similar to ours up here in Maine, and the BarberPole worms are on screech this time of year in the north.
> 
> He may be sluggish from the heat?


He certainly has been sluggish. He acts like he's stiff or sore in the back end and idk if that's from the B12 shot that was given to him. He was treated with Draxxin within the last week and half by vet as I had one goat pass and thought it was upper respiratory related as I had another that was treated successfully. Had a fecal done once I realized he wasn't feeling better and he had last corid treatment. Do they test for all kinds of worms in a fecal or do I need specific test done? I thought when I asked for fecal and for the price I'm paying that covers all parasites but apparently not. Vet said ivermectin is usually what is suggested and works well but o wormed him about month ago with it. I did not follow up after 10 days I was not aware nor told by vet to do so. My vet actually told me not to worm unless I think or see there's a issue. Well there's a issue and now it seems I'm trying to catch up with treatment. I actually had a older doe pass a stool today and found a worm in it. I believe it's a tapeworm.







posted it on the parasites form. He is separate from this doe


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

nicolemackenzie said:


> How much does he weigh?
> What's his temp?
> What's his eyelid color?
> How many mg per kg or per pound Corrid are you using?
> ...


I'm giving probios for goats I bought from TSC. I am using liquid corid at 5ml/100lbs. He weighs maybe 40lbs the vet said to dose at 2/12 to 3ml. Been giving 3ml today was the last day. I looked at a color chart for eyelid color. He's maybe the 4th down. My vet showed me to check upper eyelid and he does have visible little vessels but he looks light to me. We did give a iron shot and he did feel a little better after but I'm trying to be careful with all the stuff he's getting. I'm new to goats so I'm doing all my research online and by what the vet knows but he doesn't seem to helpful. He has lost a lot of weight I can feel his ribs and he hold his tail downward. Vet told me to Cull him if worming doesn't work. I don't get that myself. Seems like there would be something else. I did not check his temp. I will have to get a thermometer. Does digital ones work like what we use ourselves? I dosed 3x his weight with the paste. I'm not sure what strength the corid is I will have to look tomorrow. We have been drenching not adding to the water.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

nicolemackenzie said:


> What has the kid been eating?
> Has his diet been changed recently and or suddenly?


He is one goat fed that I buy from our local mill and loose mineral is provided. Mineral is for goats also. Also feeding good alfalfa hay.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

He needs some B complex. Make sure that he is eating and drinking. What is his temp?


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

jschies said:


> He needs some B complex. Make sure that he is eating and drinking. What is his temp?


I will give more B complex when I get out of work and check his temp. Can o use a digital thermometer?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Yes. I use a digital thermometer too. One for humans, but is now designated for my animals only.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

jschies said:


> Yes. I use a digital thermometer too. One for humans, but is now designated for my animals only.


Ok checked his temp with a digital that I had bought awhile ago on clearance. Temp was 103.8 he did have some loose stool on his bottom which I believe is from the corid. Gave him 2cc of B complex and 2cc of red cell as a drench. He is still anemic. Waiting for vet to call me back about tape worms found in my other separated doe.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Temp is slightly high. I hope you did injectable B complex.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Temp is slightly high. I hope you did injectable B complex.


Yes I did injection.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

Temp today as of 10 Am was 105.3 at first check and 104.8 a few mins after. He’s eating and drinking. I added electrolyte to the water and he’s pooping berries. Also gave red cell and probiotic paste. I did give him a little penicillin as his temp is so high. Will the corid treatment cause this from the worms? My dad milked cows for years and has beef cattle so we’re used to cows. We have had goats in the past and never had this much issue.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Temp is very high. Get some banamine to bring down the fever. Please don't just use " a little penecillin" - antibiotics should be dosed at the proper weight/ amount and intervals to be effective. I would get a vet involved to target the underlying infection. Wormload could have compromised the immune system, so he may be battling a few things at the same time.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I have had goats run a fever from cocci. I would get a vet involved at this rate. Not using proper doses of medication can cause real issues.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> Temp is very high. Get some banamine to bring down the fever. Please don't just use " a little penecillin" - antibiotics should be dosed at the proper weight/ amount and intervals to be effective. I would get a vet involved to target the underlying infection. Wormload could have compromised the immune system, so he may be battling a few things at the same time.


I have been dosing for his weight vet is involved for about a week know.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

Dayna said:


> I have had goats run a fever from cocci. I would get a vet involved at this rate. Not using proper doses of medication can cause real issues.


My vet has been involved for a week now. I've been talking with him everyday. I have been dosing all meds for his weight also.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Veterinarians often use the wrong dosing for goats. 
I would switch to tetracycline and give him 2ccs twice daily. This is better for respiratory and will kill off the cocci for a bonus.
He needs wormed properly. I would give Valbazen 2ccs orally 3 days in a row. This class of wormer kills a broader range of parasites including ones that may not be laying eggs due to outside conditions. 

He needs a cobalt block to use free choice. This will help his anemia plus bolster his thyroid and immune system.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

"giving a little penicillin" is our reason for concern. Thats not a measurement or a dose. And vets can get it wrong for sure as goathiker has said. 

We're trying to help you, like you asked for.


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## maye boer goats (Jul 25, 2018)

i always wonder what other goat owners feed their male kids. There is always the fear of urinary calculi but you want the weight gain so?


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## maye boer goats (Jul 25, 2018)

i would get the fecal test via the vet. Straight away we always think 'worms' which we know goats have. i would use ALBON which is a sulfa bolus if you are dealing with cocci.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There are several feeding threads going right now or you could start your own.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

Dayna said:


> "giving a little penicillin" is our reason for concern. Thats not a measurement or a dose. And vets can get it wrong for sure as goathiker has said.
> 
> We're trying to help you, like you asked for.


I'm not trying to be snotty by my comment. I am working with my vet and I am giving the correct dosage per vet. I should have put the dosage instead of saying " a little" sorry for not being correct I've been in a hurry trying to keep up with everything.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Veterinarians often use the wrong dosing for goats.
> I would switch to tetracycline and give him 2ccs twice daily. This is better for respiratory and will kill off the cocci for a bonus.
> He needs wormed properly. I would give Valbazen 2ccs orally 3 days in a row. This class of wormer kills a broader range of parasites including ones that may not be laying eggs due to outside conditions.
> 
> He needs a cobalt block to use free choice. This will help his anemia plus bolster his thyroid and immune system.


I have the vet coming today I will ask him about this. I was told Ivermectin is good by the vet , I don't know if that's supposed to work better for my area. I will look into this tetracycline and the colbalt block. Thank you.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

We know someone who recently had a livestock vet tell them goats only need safeguard, one dose at the bottle dosage (which is way under dosing) every 6 months. I would suggest running anything your vet tells you to do past the folks here. Giving that dose, just one dose, every six months would be the same as giving the goat... a jelly bean. lol It would do nothing. And this was a livestock vet. Most vets, unless they specialize in goats, don't really know goats. Other animal medicine, even other livestock medicine doesn't really transfer to goats. 

Goathiker knows their stuff for sure. One of my go-to people for when I need solid advice.

Each class of de wormer only covers some worms. If you have a wide variety of worms, you might very well need more than one class of de wormers, and valbazen is a good one. It even covers tapes if you do it for 3 days in a row.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

Dayna said:


> We know someone who recently had a livestock vet tell them goats only need safeguard, one dose at the bottle dosage (which is way under dosing) every 6 months. I would suggest running anything your vet tells you to do past the folks here. Giving that dose, just one dose, every six months would be the same as giving the goat... a jelly bean. lol It would do nothing. And this was a livestock vet. Most vets, unless they specialize in goats, don't really know goats. Other animal medicine, even other livestock medicine doesn't really transfer to goats.
> 
> Goathiker knows their stuff for sure. One of my go-to people for when I need solid advice.
> 
> Each class of de wormer only covers some worms. If you have a wide variety of worms, you might very well need more than one class of de wormers, and valbazen is a good one. It even covers tapes if you do it for 3 days in a row.


This is all really good information. I will talk to my vet about doing Valbazen! I'm not giving up on him that's for sure. How much red cell would you suggest? I gave 2cc once daily. Is that appropriate dose for 40lbs kid.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Red Cell is 6cc per 100 lbs which is 3cc per 50 lbs. So it is close.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Red Cell is 6cc per 100 lbs which is 3cc per 50 lbs. So it is close.


I've done once a day. I've read somewhere to do it twice??


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Farm girl Ty said:


> I've done once a day. I've read somewhere to do it twice??


No, don't give it twice a day. Once a day for a week then once a week. You should not overdose it.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

jschies said:


> No, don't give it twice a day. Once a day for a week then once a week. You should not overdose it.


Ok that's what I thought!! My little guys temp was 102.3 today! He's eating and drinking well. Going to do another fecal recheck next week.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I know your working with a vet, but I really think you need to be deworming your goats with something other than Ivermectin. That tapeworm is a red flag for me. Ivermectin won't kill tapeworm. Valbazen doesn't touch it here, even given 3 days in a row. 

I highly recommend Quest Plus horse paste wormer, we dose right at 3x a horse dose. So a 50lb. goat gets 150lbs. of dewormer.
We've dealt with tapeworm a few times, and it's very frustrating. Tapeworm will most likely NOT show up in a fecal. Trust me, been there and done that. 'Praziquantel' is the ingredient that kills the tapeworm, 'Moxidectin' is the other dewormer in Quest which is great for other worms. 
Once you know you have dealt with tapeworm, you'll learn to deworm for it off and on through the year.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> I know your working with a vet, but I really think you need to be deworming your goats with something other than Ivermectin. That tapeworm is a red flag for me. Ivermectin won't kill tapeworm. Valbazen doesn't touch it here, even given 3 days in a row.
> 
> I highly recommend Quest Plus horse paste wormer, we dose right at 3x a horse dose. So a 50lb. goat gets 150lbs. of dewormer.
> We've dealt with tapeworm a few times, and it's very frustrating. Tapeworm will most likely NOT show up in a fecal. Trust me, been there and done that. 'Praziquantel' is the ingredient that kills the tapeworm, 'Moxidectin' is the other dewormer in Quest which is great for other worms.
> Once you know you have dealt with tapeworm, you'll learn to deworm for it off and on through the year.


Ok I have read that it doesn't work for tapeworms either. I will go get some of the quest paste as I've heard others use it and suggest it and read to that it works. It's worth a try. I asked him about the Valbazen and he said in my area (Michigan) that it's more resistant for this area.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Sounds good. I highly recommend it. In fact, I won't use regular Quest on kids under 1yr. I'll only use Quest Plus so we can make sure we don't have tapes. We actually alternate between Quest Plus and Equimax. Equimax horse paste is Ivermectin/Praziquantel. But if we have issues, Quest Plus is the go to dewormer. 
A bad worm load could definitely be a underlying culprit for a lot of your problems. Worms can definitely wreck havoc. Like I said if they have them and you deworm properly, you'll see results in their feces within about 6-8 hours. If they do, they may act like they have a belly ache, or don't feel good. You can give some B-Complex and Probios to help them. That's what I do. We've had some with tapeworm with no signs and no side effects, and we've had some scour really bad, and/or a mild belly ache where they aren't quite themselves.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> Sounds good. I highly recommend it. In fact, I won't use regular Quest on kids under 1yr. I'll only use Quest Plus so we can make sure we don't have tapes. We actually alternate between Quest Plus and Equimax. Equimax horse paste is Ivermectin/Praziquantel. But if we have issues, Quest Plus is the go to dewormer.
> A bad worm load could definitely be a underlying culprit for a lot of your problems. Worms can definitely wreck havoc. Like I said if they have them and you deworm properly, you'll see results in their feces within about 6-8 hours. If they do, they may act like they have a belly ache, or don't feel good. You can give some B-Complex and Probios to help them. That's what I do. We've had some with tapeworm with no signs and no side effects, and we've had some scour really bad, and/or a mild belly ache where they aren't quite themselves.


Thank you so much for the advice! I am going to pick up some quest plus for them tonight! I know I was told to ask on here about his stuff as the vet is not always knowledgeable on this. In my case I think everyone is correct on that. They deal more with horses and cows for sure. I'll take as much info as I can get!!! I will give B complete as I have that on hand as the probios!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Glad you have a plan, I hope it all works out! We have the same issue with vets here. It's hard to find a vet that knows about goats. There isn't a vet in our county that will look at a goat, we usually have to go to another county about 40 minutes away. The vet around the corner from us will do fecals and try to help, but she'll admit first that she just isn't as experienced with them.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> Glad you have a plan, I hope it all works out! We have the same issue with vets here. It's hard to find a vet that knows about goats. There isn't a vet in our county that will look at a goat, we usually have to go to another county about 40 minutes away. The vet around the corner from us will do fecals and try to help, but she'll admit first that she just isn't as experienced with them.


Wow that's really sad. There are certain vets in our area that work with the 4H kids but I don't work with that vet.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> Glad you have a plan, I hope it all works out! We have the same issue with vets here. It's hard to find a vet that knows about goats. There isn't a vet in our county that will look at a goat, we usually have to go to another county about 40 minutes away. The vet around the corner from us will do fecals and try to help, but she'll admit first that she just isn't as experienced with them.


Wow that's really sad. There are certain vets in our area that work with the 4H kids but I don't work with that vet.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Well if they are a good vet, and you have a good relationship with them, then that is a reliable source when you need help 
There is a vet north of us about 25 minutes, but they are just so expensive for anything they do. I only use them if it's major emergency, which is thankfully not very often.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> I know your working with a vet, but I really think you need to be deworming your goats with something other than Ivermectin. That tapeworm is a red flag for me. Ivermectin won't kill tapeworm. Valbazen doesn't touch it here, even given 3 days in a row.
> 
> I highly recommend Quest Plus horse paste wormer, we dose right at 3x a horse dose. So a 50lb. goat gets 150lbs. of dewormer.
> We've dealt with tapeworm a few times, and it's very frustrating. Tapeworm will most likely NOT show up in a fecal. Trust me, been there and done that. 'Praziquantel' is the ingredient that kills the tapeworm, 'Moxidectin' is the other dewormer in Quest which is great for other worms.
> Once you know you have dealt with tapeworm, you'll learn to deworm for it off and on through the year.


I gave my goats the Quest Plus paste at 3x the horse dose. Is this a one time dose or do you follow up 3 days later? I'm want to make sure I give it correctly for it to work.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

Farm girl Ty said:


> He certainly has been sluggish. He acts like he's stiff or sore in the back end and idk if that's from the B12 shot that was given to him. He was treated with Draxxin within the last week and half by vet as I had one goat pass and thought it was upper respiratory related as I had another that was treated successfully. Had a fecal done once I realized he wasn't feeling better and he had last corid treatment. Do they test for all kinds of worms in a fecal or do I need specific test done? I thought when I asked for fecal and for the price I'm paying that covers all parasites but apparently not. Vet said ivermectin is usually what is suggested and works well but o wormed him about month ago with it. I did not follow up after 10 days I was not aware nor told by vet to do so. My vet actually told me not to worm unless I think or see there's a issue. Well there's a issue and now it seems I'm trying to catch up with treatment. I actually had a older doe pass a stool today and found a worm in it. I believe it's a tapeworm.
> View attachment 134893
> posted it on the parasites form. He is separate from this doe


If you can see the worm - from what I have always understood that is tape worm. Anytime I see sign of tape I have used Valbazon and it has cleared it up. Only had it a couple of times though. Tape can show as tiny worms, segments, rice like spots in their stool. I learned to do my own fecals and that helps a lot.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Farm girl Ty said:


> I gave my goats the Quest Plus paste at 3x the horse dose. Is this a one time dose or do you follow up 3 days later? I'm want to make sure I give it correctly for it to work.


I typically do not redoes for tapeworm, but will for other worms.



wndngrvr said:


> If you can see the worm - from what I have always understood that is tape worm. Anytime I see sign of tape I have used Valbazon and it has cleared it up. Only had it a couple of times though. Tape can show as tiny worms, segments, rice like spots in their stool. I learned to do my own fecals and that helps a lot.


I think it must be effective in some areas, and not in others because I have had zero luck getting Valbazen to work on tapeworm. We dewormed with Valbazen in June on 14 kids, and treated for cocci. I repeated 10 days later (dosed 3 day each time). Still was having issues with random scouring, one was losing body condition, some were acting sick, not eating well, etc. Trusted my gut, bought a tube of Quest Plus and dosed 3 young bucks. They expelled dead worms within 6-8 hours. So I dosed everyone else and the skinny doe kid I was worried about had expelled dead worms and was scouring and felt horrible but recovered quickly. Since then they all look great, growing well, etc. Never again will I trust Valbazen for tapeworm. Good for other worms I'm sure, but not tapes. Equimax and Quest Plus have been very good for tapes here. Had the same thing last year, I thought this year I should try Valbazen again...that was a mistake. This year I had no signs of tapeworm in the poo - no segments, etc. nothing on the fecals either and one of them I had done at a livestock diagnostics lab.


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## Farm girl Ty (Aug 5, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> I typically do not redoes for tapeworm, but will for other worms.
> 
> I think it must be effective in some areas, and not in others because I have had zero luck getting Valbazen to work on tapeworm. We dewormed with Valbazen in June on 14 kids, and treated for cocci. I repeated 10 days later (dosed 3 day each time). Still was having issues with random scouring, one was losing body condition, some were acting sick, not eating well, etc. Trusted my gut, bought a tube of Quest Plus and dosed 3 young bucks. They expelled dead worms within 6-8 hours. So I dosed everyone else and the skinny doe kid I was worried about had expelled dead worms and was scouring and felt horrible but recovered quickly. Since then they all look great, growing well, etc. Never again will I trust Valbazen for tapeworm. Good for other worms I'm sure, but not tapes. Equimax and Quest Plus have been very good for tapes here. Had the same thing last year, I thought this year I should try Valbazen again...that was a mistake. This year I had no signs of tapeworm in the poo - no segments, etc. nothing on the fecals either and one of them I had done at a livestock diagnostics lab.


I am going to worm my little buck that had cocci to just to be safe with the quest plus. My vet said the Valbazen is very resistant in our area. Hoping the quest paste works.


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