# Jolene - Kidding with QUINTS! Questions!!!!



## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

Jolene will be my first kidding, but her second. On her first freshening, she had quadruplets on day 146. She is currently at day 125 and it seems like she is progressing very quickly. Her udder is already big and she looks like she is losing her plug. She is pawing and uncomfortable.

In looking at these pictures, it's easy to see the copper deficiency she is experiencing. She was bolused with 3 g in December and I will bolus her again after she delivers. She is also the zinc deficient doe from my other posts. And the goats have access to nice green hay, but whenever they "Free range" they always go to this old hay pile that we use as mulch and pick around. Please don't think I feed my goats this kind of hay!! 

Any guess as to what she will be having this time around?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

O MY!! 20 days to go and what an udder she has! Not too bad at all for a 2nd freshener.....and I am thinking another set of quads too. Hoping you can be there with her, witnessing a birth is truly a blessing and she may need some help getting those babies cleaned up and eating.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

Ha! I do feel like her udder is quite large considering she is 20 days out. The breeder is sure of the breed dates. She did the five day heat thing, and I am even counting from the earlier date since she is looking so big. I do hope for triplets, but mostly that she has a safe delivery. I am getting scared looking at all these threads!

I definitely will be there to help her in any way I can. I bought all the kidding supplies posted on here and have been reading everything that I can in preparation. I am so nervous for her, but I am sure she will be fine. She's an awesome goat!


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

woohoo

i'd say quads again, she set the bar pretty high being an FF last season


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

Sometimes being "educated" isn't always good for the sanity. It is hard to not worry, especially after reading BUT...don't dwell on the "what if's" otherwise you won't be able to enjoy the healthy delivery she'll have before your eyes. Knowing the "what ifs" is a good thing to keep in the back of your mind.....and there are always those of us willing to help out when we can :hug:

You and your girl will be fine....and with all the birthing paraphenalia we suggest to have on hand, the biggest you will use will be ALOT of towels, iodine and molasses for mom's warm water and of course the camera :wink:

The aspirator or "snot sucker" is very handy and can be a lifesaver but guess what? I just started using one 3 years ago and I've had kids born here the last 8 years!


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

:shock: WOWZER! I guess quads too. lol Good luck! She's very pretty.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

nice size udder going on there

Second the towels -- you will need more then you thinkyou will especially if she has more then 2


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

Thanks everyone for the encouragement! It really helps me to focus on the amazing part of the birth and not really the scary part (until necessary, that is). I work from home and have a baby monitor so I can be with her. I do have LOTS of towels and I bought basically everything on the kidding supplies thread. I do have a question on the iodine. I got http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc...=WTEB9LHPBB328JMHC54HP9RC43UUC3K6&pf_id=11805 betadine which is like a surgical scrub. Is this the correct iodine to use for dipping the navel?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... GMB835B9E5

This is what most use, not sure of how the betadine would work, it says topical and the cords are more of a flesh....don't know if it would burn or sting when applied.
I use a pill bottle with the gentled iodine in it, drop the cord into it and turn the kid upside down with the bottle pressed against the belly. Some use a shot glass or a baby food jar.


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

WOW :shocked: is what I said when I got to the udder pic! Quads seem highly likely.

You and Jolene are going to do just fine. The fact that you are so prepared should ease your mind some. You're right focus on the "amazing part" and if you have to assist/handle something in any way you will able to do it calmly.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

betadine will be fine -- its used to flush wounds and it doesnt really sting. Used it with horses before with deep wounds.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene Day 135*

Here is my girl on day 135. Not much has changed since 125. Her udder is getting a bit bigger, but not really fuller. She's wide as a house, but seems reasonably comfortable still. Feisty as ever. Have I mentioned how much I love this goat?


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 125*

More Pics!


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 135*

Her color is beautiful; it really shows in the first pic in the first set you posted today. Being out in the full sun is really showing it. I agree too, she has a very pretty and I think a young looking face in that one pic.

Only 11 more days if she decides to do a repeat and have them on day 146. :dance: 


wookiee said:


> Have I mentioned how much I love this goat?


It wouldn't matter if you had already, because goat people understand, and hearing how special goats are bears repeating *often*.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 135*



> It wouldn't matter if you had already, because goat people understand, and hearing how special goats are bears repeating often.


EXACTLY!

Her udder is fuller....and it looks to be filling unevenly unless it is the way she is standing. An un even fill is most times caused by more milk being produced in one side due to numerous kids nursing that side as opposed to the other. She may end up showing you those babies on exactly 145!


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 135*

woah shes big!

and yes...she does have a sweet face!!


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 135*

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I appreciate every one!



liz said:


> Her udder is fuller....and it looks to be filling unevenly unless it is the way she is standing. An un even fill is most times caused by more milk being produced in one side due to numerous kids nursing that side as opposed to the other.


Good eyes, Liz! I went to check her in person and I do believe you are right, that is not just how she is standing. Is this something that can be corrected? Should it be corrected? Does this mean she will have a lopsided udder when it's full?

I don't know the history of her first kids, three bucks and a doe, if they stayed with her or not. I know she was leased to a local dairy so she was used for production.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 135*

With my experiences with uneven udders, it was due to single kids nursing one side and only the second side occassionally, but I have noticed that with triplets, the 3rd kid tends to stick to one side , leaving the udder to make more on one side than the other.
What you will likely need to do is to moniter the fullest side and see if her babies keep it evened up....if not, you will need to milk her lesser side to up the production, it takes a good bit of persistance but it does work.

My Binkey had a single last March and she did fill in fully at first but after 2 days I noticed her doeling not taking from the one side. I got her on the stand, baby under her and milked enough from the full side to allow baby to latch on...each time she went for the other teat I covered it up, after a few good sucks on the full side I let her go back and forth on her own...I continued to milk Binkey from day 2 onward once a day to ensure she stayed even, then at 3 weeks her kid was separated and I got a full 12 hour fill on her to assess her udder...not bad at all, stayed even and I got a quart plus out of her leaving just enough for baby's breakfast. :wink:


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene - Day 140*

Liz, thanks for your thoughts on the uneven fill. I wish I had more history on this doe. I will see what I can do to correct the unevenness if it a problem once she kids.

Here are more pics from today, day 140. Nothing much to report. Her udder seems to get slightly bigger each day, her back end slightly mushier. I can still feel ligs and she seems reasonably comfortable. Will be awhile yet.

Is everyone still thinking quads?

I apologize for the terrible quality of the pics, I had to take them from within her stall since the storm has the goats inside.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 140*

Pretty doe  She is huge! I'll bet she has trips or quads in there to. Hope everything goes well for you, my first doe due to kid will be a 2nd freshener also,but it'll be my first kidding to,so I understand how you feel


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 140*



goatiegurl*Oh said:


> Hope everything goes well for you, my first doe due to kid will be a 2nd freshener also,but it'll be my first kidding to,so I understand how you feel


Kinda scary, but I am sure everything will go well for both of us, goatiegurl! Fingers crossed!


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene - Day 144*

I am welcoming myself back to the land of the living! For the past three days, we've been without power due to the intense wind storm that hit New England. I live in the worst hit county in New Hampshire. We have a generator, so it wasn't too bad, but I was very worried about Jolene. The night of the storm, I evacuated the goats to the basement, since they are in a little 8 x 10 shed not anchored to the ground. Since my basement only has a bulk head access, I had to carry my big girl down. She's pretty heavy, close to 85 lbs, but I was more worried about the squishing the babies than my back. Adrenaline will do that to you!

She was fine in the basement and bedding down and we rode out the storm. We suffered no property damage to any of the buildings, but lost about a dozen trees. Two trees fell right along the goat fence, but didn't damage anything. It is a miracle. Even our hoop-constructed, plastic-covered greenhouse escaped without a scratch.

Anyway, now for the excitement. Here we are on Day 144. Jolene's udder is filling and her babies have dropped. One picture looks like she might be getting a bit posty. No real discharge yet, and I can still feel ligs on one side so I am thinking she is right on track for a Day 146 repeat of her FF. Any ideas? Also, any guesses as to how many?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

you are right she has dropped some.

lets go Jolene!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

Come on Jolene!! She's close...I can clearly see her tail head and yep, her udder has filled even more!! :leap:

Glad to hear that you were able to keep your critters safe, and that you yourself didn't suffer any more damages than what you did.


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## farmergal (Jun 19, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

Come on Jolene!!!

She is a beautiful goat, and I love the name. I'm guessing 4!

BTW, I don't know if anyone else has tried this remedy for uneven udders, but my doe just had twins -- you'd think twins would nurse evenly, right, one on each side? NOPE, they both decided that the left teat had the plague and the right teat was sweet as pie. Instead of hand milking, I covered the right teat -- taped a cut-out section of a grocery bag very loosely over the right udder -- for a few hours at a time so they would get hungry and nurse the other side. It took a couple of days but it worked -- she is not 100% even yet but MUCH better than when she started (and her udder looked like some sort of Swamp Thing) -- and the kids are trained to drink from the left side, so they'll do the work from here on out. BTW, I was extra careful to keep the covered teat clean and not leave it on too long, I didn't want her to contract mastitis.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

Liz, by "close", I hope you mean "in a couple of days" *gulp* I am home alone on the farm until Tuesday.

farmergal, that's a good idea as well. Her udder is slightly uneven, but not quite the "swamp thing" :slapfloor: I'll see how her kids work it and we'll go from there. She's not a show goat for me, but a family milker (and dear pet), so as long as she's healthy and comfortable, I don't need perfection.

Now, my little Amy.... she's my future show goat! :shades:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

She'll be fine....by close I mean no longer than day 147, you will definately know when she's ready to go.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

Whew what a relief! I am so thankful to have so many experienced people looking at my doe and talking me through her progress for my first time. I feel like I know what to expect from reading all the threads here, but it helps for people to see my particular doe and affirm my thoughts.

Jolene is resting comfortably (well as comfortably as she can) for the night and I have my baby monitor so I think we're clear for tonight. Tomorrow is another day!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 144*

I was so anxious waiting on Bailey that each time I saw her from day 145 onward I kept looking for the tiniest differences with her...and I've had 7+ years of kidding experience! Regardless of wether it's your first or 20th, the nervousness stays the same. It wasn't until I saw Baileys FF udder practically double in size on day 148 that I knew she would be ready to go....she had a long round about way of getting down to business but my intuition was correct. Go with your gut, Jolene is your doe, you know her the best and believe me you will know when she is ready, it's the little things that she does that will tell you.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene - Day 145*

Ligs are gone, she is stretching and uncomfortable. Very clingy and zoning out. Her udder is pretty full. I think we are getting closer.

Please be ok, girl! We love you!


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 145*

Easy kidding vibes sent your way for Jolene!


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

*Re: Jolene - Day 145*

Good luck! Any news yet?


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 145*

She's up, down, up, down, paw, shove hay in my mouth, up, down. Definitely not resting so I am with her. Nothing serious yet though.


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene - Day 146*

Jolene went to sleep at 2 am this morning, and then so did I.

This morning, her udder is full, but not shiny tight. Won't touch grain, picking at hay. I can see her sunken around her tail head, can't feel any ligs and one of the babies is kicking like mad on the left side.

So now I think we wait until she is ready. Progress has been slow and steady and so far, no problems! :leap:

I will clean her up today and strip the stall again. I've been cleaning it every two days, but I want it really clean for the babies!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

oh yah thats filled up!


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

Quick question for the experts:
I was watching Jolene stand in the sun (*not* going into labor! GAH!) and she was urinating and then deliberately turning around to smell her urine and then curling her nose? Is this a hormonal reaction?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

they do this when they are closer to labor -- its normal


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

Thanks, Stacey! I wondered.

Back to waiting we go....


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## jberter (Jan 21, 2010)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

what clipper blade did you use to chip her back side with??? A 10 blade or a 7f?? I posted today asking about this and I lost the thing somewhere... :-( Anyway, just was wondering sense your girl is clean behind. I would like to do the same for my girl who is due soon. Your girl is pretty and hope she kids soon for you. :dance:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

She is certainly very close....how is she progressing?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*



jberter said:


> what clipper blade did you use to chip her back side with??? A 10 blade or a 7f?? I posted today asking about this and I lost the thing somewhere... :-( Anyway, just was wondering sense your girl is clean behind. I would like to do the same for my girl who is due soon. Your girl is pretty and hope she kids soon for you. :dance:


most use a 10 for the body and a 40 for the udder.

A 7F isnt going to be short enough


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Jolene - Day 146*

very close indeed.... :wink: :greengrin:


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Jolene - Day 147*

Hi, Stacey is right, although I used a 10 for the udder because it was the blade I had for the horses. And It's not a good job. I did it 4 weeks ago and she's already growing back. I will have to shave her again before milking.

No progress. She slept through the night and her udder is not shiny tight yet.
:GAAH:

I have two breed dates for her, the five day heat thing, except hers was 7 days. So her two dates are now 147 and 140. She seems farther along than the 140 date. I haven't been able to feel ligs for over 24 hours now, but she is otherwise normal and comfortable.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Jolene - Day 147*

She's taking her time.....I know how you feel about the 2 breed dates, Angel did the "7 day heat" thing too.


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## jberter (Jan 21, 2010)

*Re: Jolene - Day 147*

Thank you for the info on the blades, sense she is a boer & I will not be milking her,, it was mostly for keeping her clean in her hinny department, before & after.  How is it going with your girl?? Hope to hear about healthy bouncing babies from your girl soon. :dance:


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 147*

I bought Jolene bred, but I think from now on, I will just do driveway breedings so I know the correct date, especially after the discussion about different age kids in the womb!

But she's in the "safe zone" for either date, so I am thankful. I am sure she will deliver soon and everyone will be totally fine. That's what really matters!


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## redsticker (May 7, 2009)

*Re: Jolene - Day 147*

She looks like such a sweetie! I hope everything goes well! Sending easy (pink) labor vibes your way...


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

*Kidded*

Jolene kidded last night, which would be day 152/145. I am inclined to agree with Stacey in that she was breed on the second date.

She delivered 5 (!) healthy babies, all survived. Three boys and 2 girls. I will post pictures in the announcements, but first I have a couple of questions.

I am bottle feeding the weakest girl, I am assuming Jolene can handle 4, no? She is a * dairy goat. I can supplement as they get older and their needs increase, but I am not sure if they will take a bottle then. The weakest girl is inside and being bottle fed.

Jolene had three babies right in a row and then two more an hour later. She was in labor a long time and it was very hard on her. The last two babies presented completely wrong. The first with its head back and the second had only a single front leg. I had the vet on the phone and I tried to push both babies back in to grab the head and she was contracting against me so strong, I could not get them back in. How do you get the babies back to get them repositioned????

She is such a strong goat and a good momma (and there were five so they were small) and she was able to deliver them even with the head back, but it was very hard on her (and me). Both babies survived miraculously!

I gave Jolene some Banamine per the vets recommendation. Should I give her more today? How much?

The weakest girl had inverted hocks and some trouble. I gave her some Bo-Se after she was born. Should I give her more? How much?

I also gave Jolene CMPK after both deliveries. Should I give her more?

I am very happy my doe is safe, but it was a pretty rough delivery and now I have five babies for my very first delivery. I am beyond overwhelmed!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wow 5! and they all are living thats awesome congrats

watch your doe and the kids -- if any seem lethargic bring out a bottle and try them on it -- if they are hungry they should take it (pry their mouth open first of course they wont just grab on it it). 4 might be much for a first timer (unless it isnt her first time but your first time with goats).

My doe wanted all 4 but couldnt handle all 4 so I supplemented bottle feeding from day 3 on till weaning.

You can give her more banamine today if she is looking sore still. 

no more BoSe at this point -- let it do its job before you give more. dotn want to OD her.

another does of CMPK wouldnt hurt mom 


Congrats on the delivery - you are officially inducted into the goat birthing world


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

Hi Stacey, It is Jolene's second delivery. Her first was with quads but I don't know if they were bottle fed or not. I will watch them very carefully!!

Thanks so much for this site. I was very prepared, even though it was difficult, and I learned everything I know from TGS!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok thats good that she has handled raising kids at least before. 

glad TGS was helpful to you -- thats what we are here for


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

WOW..5 Babies?! :shocked: 

So glad that all went as well as it did, and you did an absolutely wonderful job as a goatie mid wife/pediatrician! :leap: 

Congrats!


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks, everyone. 

Can you believe it, Liz??? Crazy!

Since I did go in, should I give her Penn? Vet did not say. If so, how much?

I am not due to have any more kiddings until fall (at least), but I would really like to know how to reposition kids. I was lucky she had so many and they were each so small or else she would not have been able to deliver them in that position. I tried and tried and couldn't get them pushed back. I felt like a bull in a china shop! At one point, I could feel her pelvic bones and everything, like cleaning a chicken. *gag*. I never want to go through that again. Poor girl.

For future reference, what is the best dosage for Bo-SE for kids? I want to write it down.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

1/2- 1unit depending on weight. 

dosage of BoSe is 1cc per 40lbs 

so 1/2 cc would do 20lbs
So I break it down to 1/4cc will do 10lbs

1/2cc is 5units 
1/4 cc is 2.5 units - for 10lbs remember

So for 5lb goat I would do 1 unit and for a 2lb goat I would do 1/2 unit

Crazy small amounts

Unit syringes can be purchased from jeffers or if you know someone who has to take insulin shots its the same size syringe. They are called 1cc syringes and awesome to have on hand for small dosages of meds especially BoSe and Banamine


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## wookiee (Oct 26, 2009)

Thank you, Stacey. That is exactly the info I was looking for. I gave less than 1/4 cc to the weak girl, but was probably still too much. I will watch her very closely. *fingers crossed*


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