# How young copper bolus



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok so every year I give kids a copper bolus at 2 months old. Every year I kinda see my kids as blah for a little while but always chalked it up to me not pushing feed on the dams and figured it was because they were not really attacking the creep feeder. So this year I have been awesome on taking pictures of my kids and making a note on the pictures what day the picture was taken so people know if it's a fairly older picture. Boy was that a eye opener for me! So I gave the copper bolus, as always at 2 months old, not quite a week after I took pictures of some of the kids. It has now been 11 days since then and there is a huge difference in that time frame with their coats and just all around looks. Right now I'm sold it's the copper. What I would like to do on the 4 youngest kids I have, which are about a week to 3 weeks old is give them their copper sooner then 2 months but what age would be a safe age to do this? I know the week old ones it's too young but I was kinda thinking try it at a month old and see how it goes???? With my does and bucks I have to really give them copper, I'm talking more then the 1 grams per 22 pounds and every 3-4 months plus their minerals so I'm pretty sold it's the copper that is playing a part with these kids


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Marking to answer later lol


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Following


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

How much are you giving the 2 month old goats?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

2 grams. I make my own boluses so I can make them as big or small as I want. The 2 grams at 2 months old is pretty right on for their weight, my more runt kids it might be a tad high but it works


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I may be wrong, but my understanding of copper boluses is; the bolus goes into the rumen, the little rods get trapped in the rumen folds and the body (liver) calls out for copper as it needs it. (Copper is actually stored in the liver). If this is the case, a young kid does not have much rumen function until 3-4 months old. A pre-2 month old kid could not really utilize copper as well as an older kid with a better functioning rumen. So, giving copper to a baby really would not accomplish what you want. (In my opinion).

Do you have well water high in iron? The high iron content can bind with the copper and neutralize the good effects of copper. (Which you probably already know, sorry, just throwing that out there...).


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

I have given cooper to kids around 2 months old who are eating grain well enough and they have been fine. I would just make sure they are eating grain, not just nibbling a little bit.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> I may be wrong, but my understanding of copper boluses is; the bolus goes into the rumen, the little rods get trapped in the rumen folds and the body (liver) calls out for copper as it needs it. (Copper is actually stored in the liver). If this is the case, a young kid does not have much rumen function until 3-4 months old. A pre-2 month old kid could not really utilize copper as well as an older kid with a better functioning rumen. So, giving copper to a baby really would not accomplish what you want. (In my opinion).
> 
> Do you have well water high in iron? The high iron content can bind with the copper and neutralize the good effects of copper. (Which you probably already know, sorry, just throwing that out there...).


See this is what I was thinking as well. I'm not sure on the age since not long after their bolus at 2 months old it is showing a huge difference difference. But I know there is a time frame on when the rumen starts working I'm just not sure what that is.
And yeah well water super high in iron. It's not that I have anyone croaking on me or being sick I just don't want blah looking kids to sell. Hang on and I'll get a picture of a few so you can see what I'm talking about with the before and after


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Do you creep feed your kids?
I bolus at 3 months but, dairy doesn't mature as fast as meat.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok so this one is a perfect example













Her coat and all around looks just don't do it for me in the first picture and the second she looks way better for her. I would have to go on my computer to get the other older pictures but it's all the same story on the kids


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Do you creep feed your kids?


Oops sorry yes I do. Always full always open for them


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

What about putting Replamin Plus in their creep feed once a week. Say about 5cc per 2 to 3 kids.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

I find my Boer kids lose their fuzzy kid coat and get their sleeker "adult" coat around 2-3-ish months. Maybe that is what you're seeing rather than the affect of copper? 

I'll be following to see what others opinions are as well. I don't copper bolus mine until they are a year, but was considering bolusing my keeper kids around weaning this time?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I give mine a bolus at 3-4 months of age - by the time they are fully weaned and not getting moms milk anymore. I really haven't had to do it before, mine kids grow very well and have always been healthywith nice sleek coats. I have dairy - don't know if this makes a difference.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Jill I can try that and see what happens. I'm honestly not sure how that will work out since there's over 80 kids out there but at least it will be safe. 
Pippas it could be. I know before I started to do it at 2 months old they looked really bad at 3 months. But that doesn't mean that your off base at all.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

How much stock do you have in copper bolus supplies Jessica? Cause Im betting a bunch of people are ordering kid size bolus now. I know I did.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

A lot lol I ordered a few huge thing of empty capsules a few years ago and then a friend of mine back east decided copper boluses were a waste of money so I bought his huge supply, so far I haven't had to buy any more of the 2 and 4 gram boluses and then before I need to do the does I just order a big thing of cattle copper boluses and a box of empty capsules that make up 9 grams. I usually end up with about 30 empty capsules after everyone gets done.
I would probably be broke if I went with the smaller already made ones but it's totally understandable because it's a lot of money to start up with the way I do it, for a small number of animals


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You still can't give even the kid sized bolus before they are ruminating well. 
Whichever day of the week you have a couple extra minutes, just divide the feed into 3 5 gallon bucket and put 10 5cc squirts in each bucket. Mix well (with gloves it's sticky) and feed to 80 kids.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I can do that! The big group has already had the copper and now looking great. The girls are selling fast and the boys I'm crossing my fingers this deal with a butcher shop goes threw so I don't have to worry about them but I have these 4 younger kids and another due in about a week and I figure I can experiment with them. Well I guess I also have my keeper doelings so I can play around with them as well


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Well, I just gave my last two kids to wean a copper bolus. They are right at 3 months. We'll see how they do!


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## KSFARMS (Dec 24, 2015)

PippasCubby said:


> Well, I just gave my last two kids to wean a copper bolus. They are right at 3 months. We'll see how they do!


how much for a "bolus"?


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

I have 7 month old babies, can I give them an "adult" bolus?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Madgoat said:


> I have 7 month old babies, can I give them an "adult" bolus?


I would, if they are deficient. It's extremely hard to OD.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

I read on this thread somewhere, about well water & high iron? I have extremely high iron in my water. They drink from a water trough that has goldfish in it and gets a lot of rain water, also I have a pond which is basically a rain barrel, but I'm sure it has some groundwater therefore probably iron in it also. What can I do to counteract the iron / copper issue?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Cat tails, cat tails clean heavy metals from water. Get the miniature ones, they aren't invasive like the big ones. Plant the pond to let them spread naturally, each plant makes a clump of about eighteen inches after a few years. A large pot of them could also be put in the trough. 

In a world of ordinary people a superman is not a king. 
He cannot rule the world. 
He is simply alone... 
Dean Koontz


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

What a neat solution. If I can keep my horses from eating them I think it would work!


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

KSFARMS said:


> how much for a "bolus"?


I just did 1.5g each

Or are you asking cost?

I use the 12.5g copasure cattle boluses...Each 12.5g bolus is about $2 and I break them into smaller bolus depending on the goat.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

PippasCubby said:


> I just did 1.5g each
> 
> Or are you asking cost?
> 
> I use the 12.5g copasure cattle boluses...Each 12.5g bolus is about $2 and I break them into smaller bolus depending on the goat.


Same here, it comes out WAY cheaper even after buying the empty capsules. It's a lot of money up front especially if one only has a handful of goats but I'm all for saving even $1 lol


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Jessica84 said:


> Same here, it comes out WAY cheaper even after buying the empty capsules. It's a lot of money up front especially if one only has a handful of goats but I'm all for saving even $1 lol


Yeah, I think I figured it out and the goat specific ones are ~$0.50/gram and the 12.5g cattle ones are closer to ~$0.15/gram, and even with the gel caps added on it's ~$0.20/gram.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

What ag


Jessica84 said:


> Oops sorry yes I do. Always full always open for them


e do you start creep? 
Do you give CDT before creep or what age do you give CDT if you do?

Do you do preventative for coccidiosis?


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Has anyone opened the bolus and just sprinkle a portion on their creep feed? Like a 2 gram bolus and give 1/2 or 1/4 of the little copper wires?

We have done copper bolus 3-4 times a year on adults and they are still deficient

If you have your water tested you could learn if there is something in it that prohibits absorbing copper? What about molybdenum?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

odieclark said:


> Has anyone opened the bolus and just sprinkle a portion on their creep feed? Like a 2 gram bolus and give 1/2 or 1/4 of the little copper wires?


Yes, I have done something similar.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Yes, I have done something similar.


At what age would this make sense to do that? I just know our does have struggled with copper deficits, so there is no reason to believe their kids will as well!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

odieclark said:


> What ag
> 
> e do you start creep?
> Do you give CDT before creep or what age do you give CDT if you do?
> ...


At about 2-3 weeks old (once I see them nibbling hay) I'll start shoving them into the creep feeder until they see the grain and start eating. Usually if a few get it figured out they will show their friends. I will give cdt at 2 months old. I think the key to not having them get sick with free range grain when they are young is to get them started young. When they are small and young they don't really eat all that much and then slowly they keep eating more and more. I have ones that are 4 months old right now and still have it free choice. 
I do do cocci prevention, but only at 3 and 6 weeks. After that they seem to be able to eat enough of the grain which is medicated to keep it under control. Keepers though I will go ahead and treat again at weaning simply because it's a stressful time.
From replies on here it sounds like if you were to give copper that way it would be once their rumen starts to work. These last little guys I had born I went ahead and gave them their bolus at 6 weeks old. 
But for your does how big of a bolus are you giving? I see a lot of people that will give a large animal a 4gram but 4 grams is for a 88# animal. Another thing I have kinda seen with mine is if one is deficient the normal dose just doesn't cut it. They will look a bit better then turn around and look deficient again pretty fast. So with mine they get a bit more then the 1 per 22# but this works with mine.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks Jessica! Gosh, for 88 pounds only they get 4grams! Well, no wonder! Most of ours for sure need more! On the bottle from "Copasure," it says:
*Directions for Dosing Copasure®:*
*Adult goats (100-200 lbs):* One 4 g capsule.

*Adult goats (200-300 lbs):* Two 4 g capsules.

So, of course we tried to follow that! Not one of our does is 200 pounds! But if they are anywhere from about 100-150 6 grams seems very appropriate. It is clearly evident they need more. We are seeing some improvement after 4, but i think with pregnancy, 5 of whom have since delivered...they will need more!


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

You still can't give even the kid sized bolus before they are ruminating well. 
Whichever day of the week you have a couple extra minutes, just divide the feed into 3 5 gallon bucket and put 10 5cc squirts in each bucket. Mix well (with gloves it's sticky) and feed to 80 kids.

Goathiker,
so are you referring to the Replamin plus? You do this once a week as well, as the adults once a week?

Jessica84
Ok I can do that! The big group has already had the copper and now looking great. The girls are selling fast and the boys I'm crossing my fingers this deal with a butcher shop goes threw so I don't have to worry about them but I have these 4 younger kids and another due in about a week and I figure I can experiment with them. Well I guess I also have my keeper doelings so I can play around with them as well

So, how do you sell your goats Jessica? :usa: We have been trying to find a market here, but so far.... 
What kind of a deal can you get at the butcher shop? I am asking as in Wisconsin, the cost to butcher a goat is the same as to butcher sheep and the differences in weight make it prohibitive to be able to feasibly sell any goat meat at a reasonable price!?

I see many are beginning to creep feed and we tried all kids a bit of creep. They do just nibble at it, but little by little, maybe it will take off as a free choice alternative?!:7up:

Getting them to GAIN Weight?!  So, hoping the creep helps some of the smaller ones gain, but maybe this concern and question is for a different thread?:storkboy: We have a few that are small, one had triplets, another one larger kid and one smaller kid... another with one very aggressive nurser, the other more laid back and smaller...:2c:

Madgoat
So, you said,"I read on this thread somewhere, about well water & high iron? I have extremely high iron in my water. They drink from a water trough that has goldfish in it and gets a lot of rain water, also I have a pond which is basically a rain barrel, but I'm sure it has some groundwater therefore probably iron in it also. What can I do to counteract the iron / copper issue?"

I think that is true?!:cowboy: What about molybdenum 
I have read this and quote something, that I have to locate once again, regarding sheep, who of course don't need the quantity of copper that goats do, but...

"....Presence or absence in the diet of sheep of other minerals and some ionophores affects the copper metabolism of sheep. Especially the level of molybdenum and sulfur in the diet. Molybdenum and sulfur act as antagonists to copper. The presence of these compounds bind with copper and prevent gut absorption and increase excretion of absorbed copper in the liver and body tissues. Molybdenum is often added to sheep diets to try to help prevent copper toxicity. However, molybdenum added at too high of levels can actually result in sheephaving a copper deficiency. Also, feeding ionophores (monensin, lasalocid) to sheep, which is done frequently, can result in increased efficiency of copper absorption by sheep..."

So, after reading this, along with all of the deficits we have had at this farm over the past 3 years, are going to have our water retested for molybdenum, sulfur, iron, etc...whatever they can gain from testing it/measuring it and move forward from that!!! :stork::storkboy::storkgirl::cowboy:

Will do cocci prevention at 3 & 6 weeks.

When do you castrate or band boys that you aren't keeping for breeding or what do you do with the boys?

I have read that boys can be fertile as  YOUNG as 6 WEEKS?  REALLY? So, if our boys are not banded or castrated, they could be fertile if still with their moms or sisters, or any other female goat? HELP!!!  :update:

Ugh, this gets so complicated!?!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't know why they say the 100-200 pounds on the bottle. I'm guessing To cover their behind. But it is not correct especially when you are having issues with copper to start with. It has been years of playing with copper, and even then 7 years later I'm doing it again, and finding what works for mine. But my biggest turning point on being brags about the copper was when my dear friend Jill (goathiker) took pity on me and sent me a whole bunch of links to read and put my mind at ease. Maybe she can find those for you (seriously it was years ago!) but the basic run down of it all was studies they did with copper boluses. They gave something like 3X that 1 per 22 and had no ill effect because it is a slow release and isn't a BAM! In the system. That's when I just stopped making individual bolese per goat, got the large capsules which hold 9 grams and if it fits down their throats they get it......this is usually yearling size lol but again this works for me but I know the fear of over doing it held me back for awhile.
So this is what I do (did on the first copper) 2 months (did the twins at 6 weeks and I think I'm changing to that, I have 3 more to play with) 2 grams no matter the size. My keepers get 4 grams when I wean at 4 months old. Again on the 4 till yearling age.
****sendint before my phone delete my reply I have another one*****


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok the butcher house thing didn't work out. They are 3 hours away and I don't trust my truck going that far on a maybe good price. Basically he wants to butcher out and then pay me on how they grade. They should grade fine but if I don't like the price it's not like I can say no thank you and take the animal back! 
BUT I did get a call from a Hispanic man that should be here Friday to buy my wethers. His deal is he buys the kids, puts them in the pasture and then people come to him and pick out what kid they want to buy to take to butcher. If they don't sell then he will take them to the sale yard after the first of the year when prices are the highest. It costs him nothing but the price of the animal. Pay wise what we agreed on is when he comes we will agree on which we think is the largest kid and the smallest kid and weigh them and come to a average weight. He's kinda getting a good deal there since most are the same size on the high side. But then they will be X price per pound. Now since I do not have a certified scale it will technically be price per head. I'll let you know Friday how it goes lol 
I have found though the key to things like that is to have high numbers. Everyone's time is worth so much (just ask them) so they don't want to really take the time to go spend a hour or so on a handful of kids. Even then I have wanted something like this for almost 8 years and this is the first year I have been able to (maybe) do it. Over the years it has always been the sale yard. Even then the sale yard is a great place to meet people too. There are people who want to do their back yard BBQs, big time butcher people, and even ones that buy smaller ones and feed them up. Yes the sale yard is nasty and on and on but meat wise it can get you in the door as well. Just always be polite and friendly and introduce yourself.
Another option is 4H Ffa. I'm really kicking myself for not disbudding for the first time this year! I had a call form a ffa teacher looking for basically a one stop farm to get the kids wethers. She wanted 18 wethers. Again though big numbers :/ 
What I plan to do next year is disbud and just put them on CL and if they sell they sell it they don't they don't and hopefully this guy coming at the end of the week works out then he will be the back up buyer lol


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Darn it, on the butcher house issue... will wait to learn how it works out on the meeting! We brainstormed last night, what to do with goats, and how we might be able to market them....working on it,... but mostly meat goats here.

So glad you said about the alfalfa hay! Thank you, great suggestion we are going to incorporate in


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Something I learned when I had a big herd is that you can sell three or four times as many to private buyers IF you let them butcher on your property. 

In a world of ordinary people a superman is not a king. 
He cannot rule the world. 
He is simply alone... 
Dean Koontz


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Isn't that interesting! Not something we would advertise, but I get what you are saying! I don't believe we have the proper facilities to do that right now, but hmm....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh, they do the cut at home. 
A tree or small shed, a sturdy table, and hose is all anyone needs to field dress and quarter. 
The main thing is that townsfolk don't have a way to get rid of the gut pile. Most farmers have pigs, dogs, and chickens that will gobble up boiled offal with gusto. 

In a world of ordinary people a superman is not a king. 
He cannot rule the world. 
He is simply alone... 
Dean Koontz


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Something I learned when I had a big herd is that you can sell three or four times as many to private buyers IF you let them butcher on your property.
> 
> In a world of ordinary people a superman is not a king.
> He cannot rule the world.
> ...


This is true! I have lost count of how many sales I have missed out on because I will not allow it. It's not the gut pile that bothers me though, and I'll be happy to take the hide lol, it's that my insurance doesn't cover it if they get hurt. Also speaking to other people who do allow, many people can be very rude and nasty. One family went to one of my parents friends house and did the butcher and then he had human #2 to clean up (barf).


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

odieclark said:


> You still can't give even the kid sized bolus before they are ruminating well.
> Whichever day of the week you have a couple extra minutes, just divide the feed into 3 5 gallon bucket and put 10 5cc squirts in each bucket. Mix well (with gloves it's sticky) and feed to 80 kids.
> 
> Goathiker,
> ...


Yes, I had a doe kid this year who was bred by a 5 week old buckling. When she was 3 weeks overdue from when she was in with my nice herdsires, I realized what must have happened.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Goat Forum mobile app


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Oh my gosh! Now I know why you have the name crazy goat lady!?! That alone would make me crazy! 

So, I have to ask, as the father was a buckling, well, how did the kid(s) turn out?


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

Twin bucklings, nice conformation and I like how that guy matured. Too bad their mama is a first freshener, but she sure has an udder on her.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Goat Forum mobile app


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

so, as a picture is worth a thousand words, I will post some photos of the changes we saw in an all brown goat in giving copper and selenium versus not! We have found it shows most in those with all brown coats, as,=well we are just looking at BROWN FUR and no other colors added in or variation what so ever! Not like any of these we have are purebred or registered as anything, as they are NOT.... 

Also, I may add that for whatever reason we have had a larger than normal number of kids born this year that are ALL BROWN...or nearly all BROWN! 

So, I will upload a photo of last years results(next post), from when we were just in the early stages of giving copper to our adult does and bucks... Mind you, we still consider ourselves beginners, as we only have a very small herd of goats, and this is only our second season of kidding-ever! We have purchased all of our goats, at auctions and also from private parties. No paperwork, etc...

We have changed and adjusted feed plans, and made major improvements on their overall care, feed, and minerals offered, etc... 

Goat Spot and participants have been key to this SUCCESS!!!

We are still struggling to figure out what is going on with some spots on our Brown Doe and one of our furry Bucks/and we are unsure if it is related to a deficit of some sort, or a worm/flea, or something else.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)




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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

So, above the before and after pictures of the all BROWN Goat Doe, and we give a big portion of the credit of her coat change to the fact she had copper. Also, she was shedding some winter coat in the first photo/in April of 2016, but also had terrible confirmation and delivered very deficient twins in May of 2016. Twins weighing :storkboy:3.5 and 4 :storkboyounds at birth. One of the twins just went to the freezer, with terrible confirmation and growth. Selenium deficient for sure, but a rough start as he was the twin who was 3.5 pounds at birth.... This year, same goat delivered twins of :storkgirl:8 and 8.5 :storkboyounds. Last years twins, one succumbed to "SWAY BACK," Copper deficiency at about 2 months...beginning healthy, and then slowly becoming paralyzed, ....very very sad, and NEVER again if we can do anything to avoid this sad and devastating situation!

So, now onto current situation with this all BROWN goat who was one of 3 on this birthing session ...,who birthed an ALL BROWN KID!:7up: ...well, she has some coat issues! I will post two photos and if anyone has input on what it is she has going on with her coat, please share.:update:


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

hoping you can see where she is missing a spot or two of fur on her back. I think the most evident one is on the left side of the picture on her back. Any ideas?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Does she have any scabbing or flaking skin? Have you looked closely for lice? Zinc is good for skin problems, I would start her on ZinPro.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It looks like she has the missing hair exactly in the same spot on both sides. That is probably from rubbing.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> It looks like she has the missing hair exactly in the same spot on both sides. That is probably from rubbing.


That's what I was thinking too. Maybe where her horns are itching??? I would check for life first. Bugs are terrible this year! A lot of people have been having issues with lice and fleas this year


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Thanks everyone! I don't know what to think about on her, but will check for fleas/lice/any bugs, which we have been looking...but see nothing, also haven't seen any peeling skin either. We use to have a buck with skin that was scabby and pealing off between his horns and down his back a bit, and for him I used a comb and some paste white stuff/can't think of the name of it this morning

She still needs another copper bolus or two, as she as all of our goats seem copper deficient yet.















So, Zinpro is a bolus of vitamins? Very curious on what Zinpro is and waiting for stores to open to check on them...just want to get the info first before administering...

We have another goat with white fur, who I will upload a few photos. His is different in appearance to me, and we did put some Cylence on him/ 2cc's and also gave him injectable ivermectin orally 2cc's.

Any suggestions?onder:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Zinpro is only zinc.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

https://www.amazon.com/Zinpro-Re-se...ie=UTF8&qid=1501683762&sr=8-3&keywords=zinpro


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

I wonder if the vet would have zinc/powder? How much do you or would you give?

copying and pasting the directions from amazon saying, Dogs need zinc for healthy coats and for normal pigmentation of the coat hair. Zinpro is a patented organic source of zinc for animals. Zinpro is made by linking the amino acid methionine with zinc to form a structure that can be absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Zinc serves two broad functions; Enzyme function and protein synthesis (cell reproduction in skin, coat, footpads and nails which consist of mostly protein). Directions: 1 tablespoon per 50 pounds of body weight per day ( a double dose can be administered for the first 28 days). If used faithfully, positive results are usually evident in 4 to 6 weeks. Ingredients: Brewers Yeast, Menhaden Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Palm Oil, Zinc Methionine, Garlic Powder, Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin Supplement. * *Ingredients listed are for informational purposes onlyand are subject to change by the manufacturer. Always refer to the manufacturerand actual product label/inserts for current ingredients, recommended dosage,precautions and warnings before use. /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}"


So, is this a solution to the coat issues/missing fur spots?


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Would the manna pro goat balancer be of assistance in adding zinc? https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/manna-pro-goat-balancer-supplement-10-lb?cm_vc=-10005

Or, is this not enough zinc?

From tractor supply website, "...". 
"
Alfalfa meal, corn distillers dried grains with solubles, soybean meal, wheat middlings, feeding oat meal, linseed meal, vegetable oil, cane molasses, dried whey, hominy feed, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, ammonium chloride, yeast culture, brewer's dried yeast, saccharomyces cervesiae fermentation solubles, diatomaceous earth, potassium chloride, magnesium oxide, sulfur, ferrous sulfate, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, copper amino acid chelate, anise oil, yucca schidigera extract, manganous oxide, manganese sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc oxide, zinc sulfate, zinc amino acid chelate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, thiamin mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin, ascorbic acid, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation product, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, propionic acid

*Guaranteed Analysis:*
Crude Protein (min.) 20.00% (This includes no more than 2.0%, from non-protein nitrogen.) , Crude Fat (min.) 5.00%, Crude Fiber (max.) 15.00%, Calcium (min.) 4.00%, Calcium (max.) 5.00%, Phosphorus (min.) 1.00%, Salt (min.) 1.50%, Salt (max.) 2.00%, Copper (min.) 150 PPM, Selenium (min.) 1.20 PPM, Zinc (min.) 520 PPM, Vitamin A (min.) 90,000 IU/lb., Vitamin D (min.) 20,000 IU/lb., Vitamin E (min.) 225 IU/lb.,"


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Dose for zinpro is one pinch per day. Goat balancer wouldn't have enough. 

But if it is her horns rubbing the hair off in the spots she won't need zinc.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Suzanne, I agree! I will have to recheck, as I thought she might have a few others as well but now don't see them!

Do you think the photos of the white furred goat would be the same thing? Or something else?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Would copper deficiency affect a goats joints/back feet in any way? We have a buck kid we're trying to figure out (I've posted a few places about him and have a post in Goat management). He's such a nice, fast growing buck. He's had plenty of selenium IMO, he seems like he's too flexible in the joints. Some of it is hoof trimming and we're working on that. 
I don't know if I should give him a bolus or not. Traditional boer kid about to turn 5mo, and 125lbs. I'm so confused it's not even funny! UGH. His sire was like this for a spell, and he's correct now. It does seem like he corrected after getting a dose of copper earlier this year along with his bo-se shot. 
We've dosed all of our mature does and the yearling buck/his sire with 4gm dose, and have a couple of red does that needed an additional 4gm dose. We've had some copper issues in the past, but never needed to do the whole herd. It's been a crazy, strange year for us with the goats. It doesn't help that they won't really eat loose minerals, even the ones who barely get grain.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

HoosierShadow said:


> Would copper deficiency affect a goats joints/back feet in any way? We have a buck kid we're trying to figure out (I've posted a few places about him and have a post in Goat management). He's such a nice, fast growing buck. He's had plenty of selenium IMO, he seems like he's too flexible in the joints. Some of it is hoof trimming and we're working on that.
> I don't know if I should give him a bolus or not. Traditional boer kid about to turn 5mo, and 125lbs. I'm so confused it's not even funny! UGH. His sire was like this for a spell, and he's correct now. It does seem like he corrected after getting a dose of copper earlier this year along with his bo-se shot.
> We've dosed all of our mature does and the yearling buck/his sire with 4gm dose, and have a couple of red does that needed an additional 4gm dose. We've had some copper issues in the past, but never needed to do the whole herd. It's been a crazy, strange year for us with the goats. It doesn't help that they won't really eat loose minerals, even the ones who barely get grain.


I know what you mean, and look to people like you with great experience for answers! Only kidding, oh, we are kidding:stork::stork::stork:...

I feel one of the things I have learned with goats/or at least use to keep myself from feeling like I just don't know enough, or do all the right things...is that I have believed one thing about goats to be true...which is:

GOATS have A FAST METABOLISM! arty: With a fast Metabolism, arty:well, they process things that they need:buttheads: quicker...so, they need like twice what you would give a lamb to take care of parasites, can tolerate and need more/as otherwise you may as well not even bother...and So ON!

I imagine the child/kid:goatrun::goatrun::goatrun: who can't ever sit :goatrun::goatrun::goatrun:still, often a "skin and bones kind of child", who eats heartily, but is just thin and always moving! :goatrun::goatrun::goatrun:

You can see the fish tails in the photo on at least two of the girls! They have received 4grams of copper December 29th, end of March, and also the beginning of July. 4 grams is NOT enough for ours.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree, they definitely burn through everything quickly! My problem using tails this time of year, unless they get bald hair tips, you can't tell if they are starting to get fishtail/thin hair because most of ours get clipped for show. I'll take a look at his tail. I'm thinking I may give him a 2gm dose. I'm worried about giving him a bigger dose.

The only ones I've had to give bigger than 4gm dose is a couple of red does. Usually most of our goats are on feed, but summer time non show or non nursing goats get little to nothing.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

odieclark said:


> Suzanne, I agree! I will have to recheck, as I thought she might have a few others as well but now don't see them!
> 
> Do you think the photos of the white furred goat would be the same thing? Or something else?


Could be either.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Hoosier let us know how it goes and what you decide. It seems the one thing I keep reading over and over and OVER is about the Copper Bolus!!! Good! Safer than believed! Ok to chew... NEEDED! Hard to OD on, ... needed needed needed more often than not! Seems if you think they might need it-well they often DO need it!!!

Still evaluating the fur and spots...


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

I think Karen is spot on, as she has totally rubbed off fur on the spots on her back!!!

The white fur is growing back now, so looking better!

Thank you!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think you are dealing with lice. I agree the white looks like the hair is growing back and would make sense it being lice if you gave ivomectin and (sorry I can never remember the name and I'm on page 4) which would take care of the life. My buck this year had huge bald patches and I seriously thought I was dealing with some kind of mineral or vitamin issue since he was the only one but when I looked close he had lice. His was very flaky and just ugly looking patches, a few were raw but they were right where his horns could reach. He's all better now


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

We treated him with Cylence thinking that it could be lice or a type of mite, and the ivomectin injectable given orally. He has been improving. I think cylence needs to be reapplied, at 3 weeks? Not sure on that.

He is deficient though, at least copper, as it seems they all are! Plus we have been giving it, but not enough as our tails are still fish tailing


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