# Dog Food



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Hi guys! I have Border Collies, and one in particular I have a hard time keeping weight on. 

She's 3 years old, and perfectly healthy according to the vet. She has a thin build in general, and is so active she won't even slow down long enough to eat. So I would like to see her gain and keep about 5 lbs.

She is on 4 health dry food now, free choice as much as she wants. I have tried all different grain free brands and that is her favorite. But I am thinking of adding some form of raw meat to that just for some added calories? 

She gets extra raw eggs and raw deer meat scraps occasionally. I am just wanting something more for everyday use, or an every day diet plan. Any ideas? Or tips on what y'all feed your dogs. 

It is something I am going to put a lot more research into before I change her diet. The raw food thing (even if I am just adding it to dry food) is still a little intimidating. 

Could just adding a little raw meat daily to her dry food do any harm?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Probably Goathiker would be a good one to answer this. I believe she feeds her dogs a raw diet.


----------



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I thought so. I remember seeing someone post about it before, just couldn't think of who it was. Thanks!


----------



## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Oh, Border Collies! They never want to take the time to eat! 
I like to add goat milk, which not only helps them get fat, but encourages them to eat. Same with a daily egg, crushed shells and all for better absorption. 
I know a lot of people feed the Victor brand food, and I think they have a few varieties of higher protein and fat foods for high energy dogs. Those could be helpful, because she could get away with eating less. 
My Border Collie that is picky all the time, and refuses kibble for two months after every heat cycle, loves the raw meat diet that I put her one after her heats. And no, adding only a bit of raw meat into her kibble won't hurt. You might try using ground meat and mixing it all up with her kibble and see if that entices her to eat more. 
Even after all of the above, some very active dogs are just always on the lean side with sharp points and ribs showing, if short haired. That's why I like long haired Border Collies-it prevents people from accusing me of starving my dog when the reality is that I try my best and she's just fine.


----------



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Ranger1 You know exactly what I'm talking about then! Hahaha 

Yea my girl is short haired. Athletic and plenty muscle, but fat just won't stick to her. But yes! People always think she is starved so I hate to take her out places. 

I'll start doing a whole raw egg crushed up and mixed in with her dry food daily. At least that will get her to eat the dry food. I know she would love the goat milk on top of her food too, I didn't think about that, but I have some Does in milk now I can start milking for her. 

I haven't Tried the Victor brand food, but it sounds like something that would work for her. I'll see if I can find it around here. Thank you!


----------



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Just found out my feed store carries Victor Brand, and has the Active Dog bag. What are the odds! I'm excited to try it. Thank you!


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I have Malamutes, a Pyrenees and an Alaskan Husky (Husky x Greyhound). I feed Kent Native kibble- it comes in 5 "strengths" 1, 2, 3, 4, and Puppy. It's made for performance dogs. I feed Native 2 in the warmer months and go to 3 in the colder months, it's higher in fat and protein. It's made to be able to change from one type to another without having to slowly mix it because it is the same food, just different levels of certain ingredients. My dogs do well on it and love it, even the picky Pyrenees who would rather wander than eat.

I also add raw or cooked meat, goat milk and products, fresh eggs, fruits, vegetables, greens, raw meaty bones and cooked oatmeal (in the winter. Makes me feel better lol) to the kibble.


----------



## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I have the same issue with my Chinese Crested, he just wont stop, I feed him the same food 4 Health salmon and potato free choice, but I also give him everything we eat, from oatmeal for breakfast to everything I can eat at a restaurant (I have food allergens) and (he is a service dog so he can go two!) I dont know where he puts it, but he can eat more than my 100lb mastiff I had years ago! He stays thin but not to skinny.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

It's a shame that most people just don't understand that a dog that is *slightly* underweight is SO MUCH HEALTHIER than every overweight dog out there. I know the feeling about bringing your dog in public - people comment on my gal all the time. In a passive aggressive way too, like talking to the dog and saying she looks hungry. We have no idea which breeds she is, but she is a born runner, intense, and a fussy eater to boot. 

Anywho... sorry for the rant. Goat milk and eggs are FABULOUS additions for adding on a few lbs. Raw meat may help but is high protein whereas you really need fats - but if it makes her eat the kibble then yes!


----------



## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

Agreed, a slightly underweight dog is way healthier than a slightly overweight (and especially healthier than an obese one!) Unfortunately, most of the public is used to seeing overweight dogs, and think that an overweight one is "normal" and "healthy" when it's just the opposite.

That said, adding raw meat is definitely a good idea! To put it in perspective, if you were unable to eat "real" food everyday, and were instead eating a processed meal day in and day out, even one that was balanced to have all the nutrients you need, adding in some "real" foods would certainly be a very healthy thing to do. Even a little fresh, whole foods is better than none at all!

I feed all but one of my dogs a diet made up entirely of raw meat, bones, and organs. I have one picky old guy who only eats cooked meat, so he is on 4Health kibble, with some cooked meat thrown in as a treat.

Good options to add to the kibble would be any kind of raw meat from herbivorous animals (and some omnivores such as chickens, ducks, etc), liver, other organs, green tripe, etc. Basically, you can feed any part of an animal except the intestines and weight bearing bones of large animals.

Edited to add that I also add raw eggs (shell and all) and goat milk to help increase appetite on a thin dog.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It sounds like the OP is concerned that the dog is more under weight than they would like and would still be skinny even with a 5 lb weight gain. It sounds like you have some good suggestions on how to help put weight on her.


----------



## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

I know a lot of people who absolutely swear by "satin balls" for putting lots of weight on a dog very quickly. I've briefly looked into them before, and there seems to be quite a few different "recipes". They don't sound healthy at all though for needing to feed for very long, but if they work as well as I've heard to put weight on skinny dogs, they might be worth looking into.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I have a lot of dogs, I do feed Victor brand. I also feed duck eggs, and goat milk, and yes, I feed duck carcasses and also goats. Don't hate on me, it is an honest use of livestock, feeding the carnivores.

The dogs are a healthy weight, very active. I feed the same thing to the cats.

A small extra herd of Pygmies is not an outrageous solution for feeding many active hungry dogs.


----------



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I milked about a 1/2 cup from one of my Does today (that was a battle in itself lol) and poured that over her dry feed, along with a crushed up large duck egg. She loved it! And I love that she was very willing to finish off her food.  Will start doing that daily, I don't eat duck eggs anyway. And I think it will do my does' social skills some good to be put on the stand and milked daily. 

With the raw meat, we hunt deer a lot this time of year. So maybe I will end up with some extra scrap meat/fat that I can put up for her. One of my concerns is feeding organ meat? What I have looked into feeding raw, it seems like you have to have all the ratios perfect and you can't give them too much of certain organs? 

Maybe that is just with an entirely raw diet? But is that still something to look into if it's only a cup or less daily? Or since I am feeding a balanced dry food too, should I not worry about that?


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I fed raw for years, I quit when I was in nursing school and just never started back up. I do feel my dogs were healthier. I think if you're already feeding kibble, you're good to add scraps and organs. My dogs loved organs and those lovely raw meaty bones. I stayed away from the weight bearing bones of the legs (very hard, easier for dogs to chip teeth) but all the others were very popular. I still give them when available, like when I butcher a goat. I have 12 dogs now, and those extra boy goats come in handy.


----------



## Idahogoats (Sep 5, 2016)

I don’t know how you can butcher your goats. I love my goats like my dogs and cats. Each to their own.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I feed my dogs a mixture of meat, eggs, milk, and our leftovers. 

When our Aussie was a puppy he hated kibble. He would live on the handful of scraps we fed him. He was our first dog and we didn't really think much of it. Then we decided to switch him to the above diet and have never gone back. He put some weight on finally.


----------



## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Organs are totally fine as long as you use common sense. A pound of liver is going to give your dog the runs, LOL


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Idahogoats said:


> I don't know how you can butcher your goats. I love my goats like my dogs and cats. Each to their own.


Are you a vegetarian?


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm a vegetarian who owns carnivores (cats and dogs)

To be more specific, I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian, who owns carnivores. I give my animals the best life and the best care I can, and when I have to end a life, I do so as quickly as I can.

There are a lot of people who can not butcher animals they have become attached to, there are small scale processors who will do this for them for a fee. But you lose a lot there, like all of the offal, the hide, most of the skeleton.

One of the benefits of goats over cattle is sheer size. I can handle a goat every few weeks. Handling a steer or an old milk cow is much more daunting, and more than would fill my freezer space with a single animal. So I'd have to buy and run a freezer simply for carnivore food. Not as friendly to the environment as dealing with a smaller animal.

I can't keep all my animals, and when I sell an animal, I lose all say in how that animal is treated for the rest of it's life, and I've seen some horrific treatment here where I live. Using what I'm producing for my own needs just seems both humane and honest to me.

I don't know how the animals lived who are part of my favorite dog food. And Victor is an excellent food. I don't know how my animals are treated when I sell them.

Selling is not evil. Keeping is not evil. Butchering is not evil. Acting like we don't have to weigh and consider the consequences of what we do.... that one might be evil.

@SalteyLove I know this was not directed at me specifically. But thank you for giving me the chance to express what some of us may be thinking.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@mariarose very well stated. The question was actually for Idahogoats who expressed distaste for those of us who choose to butcher or have goats butchered.

@Idahogoats - just as you cannot stand the thought of butchering your goats - I cannot stand the thought of eating commercially raised meat purchased at the grocery store. I do not support the way many of those animals are raised. I prefer to know that my meat lived a more species-appropriate life.


----------



## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I love my meat, and I’ve killed and butchered chickens, rabbits, ducks, and turkeys, and helped butcher larger animals as well. I’ve watched a goat be butchered, and I’ve eaten goat meat, but I have not been able to bring myself to kill a goat. I just can’t. 
I just read a very eye opening article on FB and I’ve been that women who doesn’t want to think about where they go after auction, though I vaguely know the possibilities and try to squelch them. After reading that article, I think I’m going to find someone who will butcher for instead of ever sending to an action again.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It is hard to kill a goat. Not, physically, mentally. Especially one that you have raised, nurtured and spent hours trying to make well again. I cry every time I have to shoot one. Unfortunately, those can't be used for dog food. (antibiotics, etc) They get buried. I've had un needed buck kids that I have shot and fed to the dogs. (I haven't eaten goat meat, yet). I cry over them, too. But, it's better than a life of uncertainty if sold at auction. 

Done humanely, they don't suffer, it's over quickly and animals don't fear death. (That, I remind myself, a lot!) 

Note: if you shoot a goat, do it correctly. Aim from the back of the head towards the nose. That brain is tiny and the scull is really thick between the eyes and up toward the horn area.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That is exactly where to shoot to kill. And it is done, dusted. Thank you for that.

I'll only add that if the reason I've shot is zoonotic, then I don't feed to the carnivores or omnivores. Those get burnt. However, I do feed if it is not zoonotic. There is no way that dog food is made up of animals that have no antibiotics.

I do what I can, which includes antibiotics (as do you, obviously) but I will feed that carcass to carnivores and omnivores if I won't spread a zoonotic disease by it.


----------



## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

GaGoats2017 said:


> I milked about a 1/2 cup from one of my Does today (that was a battle in itself lol) and poured that over her dry feed, along with a crushed up large duck egg. She loved it! And I love that she was very willing to finish off her food.  Will start doing that daily, I don't eat duck eggs anyway. And I think it will do my does' social skills some good to be put on the stand and milked daily.
> 
> With the raw meat, we hunt deer a lot this time of year. So maybe I will end up with some extra scrap meat/fat that I can put up for her. One of my concerns is feeding organ meat? What I have looked into feeding raw, it seems like you have to have all the ratios perfect and you can't give them too much of certain organs?
> 
> Maybe that is just with an entirely raw diet? But is that still something to look into if it's only a cup or less daily? Or since I am feeding a balanced dry food too, should I not worry about that?


Awesome! Glad to hear she was eager to clean up the food!

Yes, you do have to have the ratios correct, but that is just when you are feeding an exclusively raw diet. As an addition to kibble though, it's not as important to keep everything just perfect. As said above, so long as you don't feed large quantities of organ meat at once, you'll be fine.

When feeding prey model raw (which is what I choose to feed), you keep the ratios at approximately 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organs. You don't have to balance every single meal, but rather balance over time.

As an example, for my 100 lb Anatolian, she eats 40 oz of food per day. 2 days worth of food for her fills a gallon sized ziploc, so her food is balanced for every 2 days. I usually use chicken quarters as her bone portion, which are about 30% bone. So I pack approximately 26.7 oz chicken quarters, 45.3 oz muscle meat(species varies), 4 oz liver(species varies), and 4 oz other organs(species varies, as does the organ. could be kidneys, spleen, brain, or testicles). Then I feed half of it to her one day and half the bag the next day.

My 12 lb maltese on the other hand only eats about 5 oz a day. So I balance his food over the course of 4 days, as that is only about half a quart-sized baggie, but any more will usually start to spoil before it all gets fed.

Just what works easiest for me to keep the ratios correct. I've only been feeding raw for 2 years, but I like it, and the dogs seem to be doing extremely well on it.


----------

