# Am I just bad at this?



## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Hi everyone! I've been away for a little while. I keep getting slammed with discouragement and negative experiences and I just don't know what to do. I love my goats and do my absolute best to care for them as best as I can. We have a vet on call, we run fecals, and I'm constantly looking at my care protocol to see what I can do better.

Recently I sold a couple of 6 month old doelings. I always check my animals prior to selling. I would never sell an animal if I thought it was sick or not doing well. A few days after these does went to their new home the buyer said they weren't bouncing around as they expected. I offered some advice, kept in touch, confirmed that I hadn't had any issues or seen anything that would lead me to believe they were sickly. A few days later the buyer vocalized more concern about one of the doelings and said they just didn't like it and wanted to trade it for a different one. I agreed, but the one that they wanted was already sold. I was out of town but let them know that the next weekend they could come look at another doeling. The next day the doeling died in their care. After that I hesitated on giving a new animal to them. I had other people lined up to buy, but have put a hold on all sales at the moment because I just don't know what to do. 

At this point I just don't want to sell any more goats because it's just so stressful. Do I need to create a disclaimer that says they are sold as-is and no returns? What would be the best practice here? I've already decided that I will not sell an animal unless I have recent fecal results so I can hand that over at the point of sale. 

What would you do?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Once they leave your farm, you can't be responsible. If the buyers thought the goats were sick, why didn't they take them to the vet? Parasite blooms can happen when goats are stressed but that is the responsibility of the buyer. When you sell goats, you should always tell the buyer that you aren't responsible once the goat leaves your property. For all you know, they fed moldy hay or too much grain or something.


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## thefarmgirl (Jul 13, 2021)

Ya I agree @ksalvagno. My goat rule is that is you are wanting one of my goats/if it happens to die,get sick, or get injured all payments will be refunded if still on our property.But if it is off our property and happens to die, get sick, or injured we are no longer responsible for it..


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I make my buyers read and agree to my terms of sale before making a purchase. The terms state, among other things, that once the goat leaves my property I cannot and will not be responsible for its health and care. I would never let a sick goat leave my farm, but once the goat leaves, it's health is beyond my control. For younger kids who I know will be traveling more than an hour or two to get to their destination, I do preventatively treat with toltrazuril in case of a coccidia bloom, since that is so common even with healthy kids.

So sorry about the kid though. That is heartbreaking ☹


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Thanks y'all. I have to remind myself that it wasn't like the doeling walked off the property and died, it was a week later. I just hate the whole situation. I don't want it to seem like I gave a buyer a bad deal or cheated them or anything like that. I think I just need to be more upfront about no returns and maybe go through a health check with them there or something. My husband said maybe have a very recent fecal result to give to buyers sort of as proof.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Calistar said:


> I make my buyers read and agree to my terms of sale before making a purchase. The terms state, among other things, that once the goat leaves my property I cannot and will not be responsible for its health and care. I would never let a sick goat leave my farm, but once the goat leaves, it's health is beyond my control. For younger kids who I know will be traveling more than an hour or two to get to their destination, I do preventatively treat with toltrazuril in case of a coccidia bloom, since that is so common even with healthy kids.
> 
> So sorry about the kid though. That is heartbreaking ☹


 I did add to my plan to give a preventative of toltrazuril before transport. How soon prior to leaving do you give it to yours? I really am heartbroken over this. I loved the little baby and should have just kept her here!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree. It's hard to say what happens once they leave. When I sell a goat..we check famacha, I give kids toltrazuril and give advice in what to watch for..we talk about parasite bloom and stress related shipping fever ect. I always let them know they can to call me if they ever have an issue. Once they leave with the goat..its their responsibility.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> I agree. It's hard to say what happens once they leave. When I sell a goat..we check famacha, I give kids toltrazuril and give advice in what to watch for..we talk about parasite bloom and stress related shipping fever ect. I always let them know they can to call me if they ever have an issue. Once they leave with the goat..its their responsibility.


 Thank you. I like this a lot. I'm going to have to work on my sale practice I think. I am painfully shy sometimes and I worry that saying no refunds or washing my hands of it might come across as cold or unfriendly, but it's really just the business side of it.


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## Wcd (Jan 12, 2020)

May I ask how they were transported ? Were they used to being handled? We have found that those two things can play a huge role as well as having a plan to get acclimated to their new home which is really the buyers responsibility.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Wcd said:


> May I ask how they were transported ? Were they used to being handled? We have found that those two things can play a huge role as well as having a plan to get acclimated to their new home which is really the buyers responsibility.


They were transported in a cage together in the back of a truck. I'm not sure how far, but I don't believe it was too long of a journey. They were both very used to being handled, especially the one that died. She would come to be for cuddles.


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## Wcd (Jan 12, 2020)

YouGoatMe said:


> They were transported in a cage together in the back of a truck. I'm not sure how far, but I don't believe it was too long of a journey. They were both very used to being handled, especially the one that died. She would come to be for cuddles.


sounds like there were many factors that may have caused the undesirable outcome. There are so many things with out knowing vegetation etc, quality of water, etc. Did they request a necropsy? 

it’s a little hard to take when you give them your best and something happens beyond your control.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Wcd said:


> sounds like there were many factors that may have caused the undesirable outcome. There are so many things with out knowing vegetation etc, quality of water, etc. Did they request a necropsy?
> 
> it’s a little hard to take when you give them your best and something happens beyond your control.


As far as I know there was no necropsy done. I was told the doeling had a snotty nose so she was caged alone overnight and when they went to check the next morning she had died. They started listing all the things that were done (dewormed, supplements, iron, etc) and I am wondering if it's possible the doeling was already stressed and then given too much all at once for her system. Previously, I hadn't given her anything other than her two rounds of CD&T and preventative toltrazuril, though it had been a month since her last dose of that.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

YouGoatMe said:


> I did add to my plan to give a preventative of toltrazuril before transport. How soon prior to leaving do you give it to yours? I really am heartbroken over this. I loved the little baby and should have just kept her here!


I give it the morning of the day they leave. I like to give them a dose of probiotics too when I can, although that doesn't always happen.

Try not to beat yourself up over it. I know it feels like you failed your little doeling, but she was healthy when she left and you sold her to a home that you thought would take good care of her. There isn't anything more you could possibly have done.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Calistar said:


> I give it the morning of the day they leave. I like to give them a dose of probiotics too when I can, although that doesn't always happen.
> 
> Try not to beat yourself up over it. I know it feels like you failed your little doeling, but she was healthy when she left and you sold her to a home that you thought would take good care of her. There isn't anything more you could possibly have done.


Thank you so much. I did feel like I was making the right choice for her new home. I hate that it went this way. I'm definitely going to do the pre-sale toltrazuril, probiotics and probably even a fecal so I can hand over the proof of good results at the point of sale.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

With the snotty nose, I wonder about the possibility of pneumonia. If the other goat is still not acting right, she should really be seen by a vet. She may need antibiotics.
With something like pneumonia, that is in no way your fault. The stress of moving can really tax a goat's immune system. If she was healthy when she left your place, that is the best you can do.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Cedarwinds Farm said:


> With the snotty nose, I wonder about the possibility of pneumonia. If the other goat is still not acting right, she should really be seen by a vet. She may need antibiotics.
> With something like pneumonia, that is in no way your fault. The stress of moving can really tax a goat's immune system. If she was healthy when she left your place, that is the best you can do.


The other one I sold her seems to be doing great. I am really thinking it was the stress of moving that started it all.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You absolutely need a contract! I have one that basically states I guarantee nothing because so many things can go wrong in a new home that I have no idea is going to happen. And there is nothing that says that if I some how was in the wrong and sold them a less then healthy goat that I couldn’t refund money, as long as I was sure it was my or the animals fault.
Don’t get discouraged. Unfortunately sometimes these things happen. I have been in your shoes and have second guessed myself and what I stand for. I usually sit back and look at it from both sides. From your side of the story you did good on making sure you sold them a healthy baby. They at any time could have called a vet out to see what was going on. If we ALL know anything about these animals it can be that they are easily stress and can be fickle at times. That doesn’t put you in the wrong.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Jessica84 said:


> You absolutely need a contract! I have one that basically states I guarantee nothing because so many things can go wrong in a new home that I have no idea is going to happen. And there is nothing that says that if I some how was in the wrong and sold them a less then healthy goat that I couldn’t refund money, as long as I was sure it was my or the animals fault.
> Don’t get discouraged. Unfortunately sometimes these things happen. I have been in your shoes and have second guessed myself and what I stand for. I usually sit back and look at it from both sides. From your side of the story you did good on making sure you sold them a healthy baby. They at any time could have called a vet out to see what was going on. If we ALL know anything about these animals it can be that they are easily stress and can be fickle at times. That doesn’t put you in the wrong.


Do you have to have them sign the contract? I think I'll write something up for sure.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes they sign it at the time they either put a deposit on a goat or they buy the goat (if old enough to leave). Just take your time and try and cover all your bases, and what your willing to work with. Pretty much think of every little issue that might come up and how you would like to handle it.


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Yes protect yourself! Once they leave your farm it its no longer on you. People can be real jerks and come back later demanding money back or vet money due to lack of care on their part. Dont blame yourself! Parasites usually hit em when they leave and are stressed. No telling also what was already at thier property maybe they didnt use proper prevention.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I'm sorry about that. 

Kids don't do the best with stress and change. I try to always educate the buyer on what to observe and how to treat. I give the ones that leave Toltrazuril the day of leaving as they most always will bloom with cocci due to stress. I give Bovi-Sera to help with stress and immune systems as well as some probiotics. All the morning they leave. I do have ours sign a contract and in it it states that once they are out of my care, I'm not responsible. It also states that the animal is seen to be in good health upon leaving. I then try to instruct esp new buyers on what to watch for which is usually cocci or pneumonia symptoms. Esp with shipping they can come back with snotty noses. I've purchased from wonderful farms and had them get a yucky nose from transport. It happens. Some people just don't realize that stress can cause these things and with them being babies and a huge change, it's sometimes inevitable.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Jubillee said:


> I'm sorry about that.
> 
> Kids don't do the best with stress and change. I try to always educate the buyer on what to observe and how to treat. I give the ones that leave Toltrazuril the day of leaving as they most always will bloom with cocci due to stress. I give Bovi-Sera to help with stress and immune systems as well as some probiotics. All the morning they leave. I do have ours sign a contract and in it it states that once they are out of my care, I'm not responsible. It also states that the animal is seen to be in good health upon leaving. I then try to instruct esp new buyers on what to watch for which is usually cocci or pneumonia symptoms. Esp with shipping they can come back with snotty noses. I've purchased from wonderful farms and had them get a yucky nose from transport. It happens. Some people just don't realize that stress can cause these things and with them being babies and a huge change, it's sometimes inevitable.


Ok I'm going to look into a contract. Thank you for the info! I have also had some issues after purchasing 100% healthy goats so I know that a relocation is a big deal for them! I always tell people that moving or birthing is the hardest thing for a goat. Spring is also particularly rough for them here with the warm and soggy weather we get and the parasites that come along with it. 

Going forward, my plan is to run a fecal a few days prior to moving, give probiotics and toltrazuril the day of moving, educate the buyer on goat health and how it can be difficult for them to relocate (even if they seem like an experienced goat owner), and have a contract that states that once the animal leaves my property I can not be held responsible for their care. Might even add a section they can sign that includes a health check was done with us both present before the animal leaves. Can ya'll tell I'm not a very good business-woman?? lol. I'm not good with all this official stuff, but I've come to realize that it's needed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Shipping in an open container in the back of the pickup, with wind on her,
for a long journey. 
Stress from the move and having her alone with no one in sight is just asking for trouble. A snotty nose says to me could of been shipping fever or pneumonia.
Any goat can have the beginning of pneumonia and we don’t catch it before they leave and they may seem ok. Then become very ill quickly.

Checking famamcha before they leave tells a lot with parasites issues.
But can change quickly with stress.

When a goat leaves out property, it is then the responsibility of the buyer.
I tell them if they have any questions or concerns to contact me right away. 

The only time they will get a replacement goat or return of deposit is if they have a deposit on them and are still in my care. 
Only if a goat dies or is severely injured both parties will have to talk it over on what the possibilities are or if a vet should confirm the goat is too severely injured.

If a buyer bought a breeder doe or buck, which cannot have babies for some reason, it must be proven by a vet to confirm this before any decisions are made. 

No refunds or goat replacement is given, when they leave, if injured or the goat dies. 
We have no way of knowing how the goat is treated or what the goat has been exposed toafter they leave.

Also if they put the goat in with other goats or a horse etc. there is a chance the goat may of gotten hit super hard and receive severe internal injuries, then die by morning.
Or even silent pneumonia can kill a goat over night. 

The loss is not your fault, the way it
sounds like to me is the buyer didn’t like the goat and wanted another goat.
Did they prove its death.

You went way up and beyond for this buyer, which you didn’t need to do.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

toth boer goats said:


> Shipping in an open container in the back of the pickup, with wind on her,
> for a long journey.
> Stress from the move and having her alone with no one in sight is just asking for trouble. A snotty nose says to me could of been shipping fever or pneumonia.
> Any goat can have the beginning of pneumonia and we don’t catch it before they leave and they may seem ok. Then become very ill quickly.
> ...


Thank you for this. I need to stop second guessing myself! Actually now that I've calmed down and thought it through, I never got any pictures after they decided they didn't like the doeling. No pictures to show the snotty nose or that it died. She also mentioned that they keep their bucks in with the herd and was worried about how small the doelings were. I told her they absolutely should not be bred yet as they were too small and too young. If they were with a buck could that have injured the baby to the point of killing it?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes I was going to say have something that states the goat seems healthy at the time of pick up. I don’t have that but had purchased a doe from a gal that had that and really liked the idea. Especially if you ever do deposits that way they could never say “well I had to take the sick goat or I would loose my deposit”. 
I also will not take a goat back. If for some reason the animal did have something wrong with it that I didn’t spot then it would be take to the sale yard and I will refund the difference. I don’t want any possible diseases or nasty coming into my herd by taking it back.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

These were my thoughts exactly. I don't know what their living conditions are and I was REALLY hesitant to take an animal back. I do know the person buys and sells goats frequently so there's really no telling what kind of stuff the herd could be passing around.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Putting little babies in a herd running with a buck is really bad. The baby may have gotten rammed by the others. 
You are not responsible for the poor little one's death.


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> I did add to my plan to give a preventative of toltrazuril before transport. How soon prior to leaving do you give it to yours? I really am heartbroken over this. I loved the little baby and should have just kept her here!


I know your pain😔 and that is the reason I started rescuing unwanted goats, I used to rescue pit bulls out of death row, I rescued them for years but I decided to keep Brody because he was staying with us not a foster.. and also had a contract and always read it out loud for whoever was adopting.. but this person ( long story short) ended up killing my boy and they were suppose to bring him back to me only and I found out they kept him chained in the basement 😔 I was horrified, because I put so much love into these dogs.. that is why when we rescued a mom with her two yearlings and saw that he still has one testicle I made an appointment right away for him to be neautered but couldn't have this vet come till the next week. In the end we had no idea that our does were even pregnant until they started coming.. hustled to make birthing stalls, and my friend who helps with the goats told me to sell them..I told him THAT IS A COMPLETE DEAL BREAKER in my eyes.. also shouldn't anyone moving a new goat to their farm give them electrolytes and maybe some probiotics for help with stress. I am so unbelievably sorry your little doe didn't make it.. the very reason I would never let anyone take one of my goats, but then again I don't breed at all this was a complete surprise.. actually a great surprise because I always had 21 goats, now we are down to only 12... Because of the horrible experience of my boy being killed on purpose I completely stopped adopting out and kept my last four dogs, we had 5 dogs, 4 pit bulls and one Scottish terrier. I just won't take the chance because I can't handle it not that you can't but I pray that you find loving homes for your babies.. so very sorry 😐


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> Putting little babies in a herd running with a buck is really bad. The baby may have gotten rammed by the others.
> You are not responsible for the poor little one's death.


😔 That very thing happened to us! I wasn't to goat savvy When my does got pregnant. So I wasn't about to give the babies to anyone and I'm so grateful I didn't because I love those 6 babies so much. I have always been against breeding, but I understand that people do this it's just me.. because of the horrific death of my Brody😔 I understand not many people are so attached.. but because I never bred a dog or any other animals I never got the chance to see the miracle of birthday ❣ having these little ones has been such a fabulous experience ❣😁 and could have lost the triplets if I didn't see onxy go into labor, I had to assist her but didn't think she would refuse to clean them up and I held them up to her nose hoping she would allow them to nurse but she turned her head and wanted nothing to do with them. If I wasn't right with her and because it was 9 below I Know that they wouldn't have survived. I don't want anyone to get mad at me because of this it's just my way and I don't expect others to think how I do..


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> The other one I sold her seems to be doing great. I am really thinking it was the stress of moving that started it all.


Isn't it a good idea to give goats that have to be transported some electrolytes and maybe probiotics? Because of the stress? Just wondering, I don't sell babies, just asking if they should have been given electalités and probiotics? When they go to a new farm?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Debra P said:


> Isn't it a good idea to give goats that have to be transported some electrolytes and maybe probiotics? Because of the stress? Just wondering, I don't sell babies, just asking if they should have been given electalités and probiotics? When they go to a new farm?


Yes I think it's good to do both.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Such a sad thing to happen.

Any new goat will get bullied and may be ganged up on by does and bucks. 
Hitting them on all sides.
Some may indeed get hit so hard to cause deadly internal injuries. 

Not your fault at all.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Y'all she just messaged me that the other doe passed away and now wants a refund. She said she thinks it was an infection that I didn't know about. What the heck??


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Oh my! That's sad!
Did she have the other one seen by a vet? Did she have a necropsy?


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Oh no, I am so sorry you are going through this again! What a nightmare!

I would absolutely not give her a refund. One death is sad but things happen. Two deaths points to the new owner's care, or lack thereof. Have Any of your other buyers had sick/dead kids? Have any of your retained kids gotten sick or died? I expect not. How long has she had the replacement kid? If you feel like you have to do something, you could offer to refund only if they have a necropsy done that reveals that it was a congenital issue that caused the death- any other COD would be beyond your control. (And I bet they won't!) Otherwise, I'd just apologize but explain that the goats were both healthy at the time of sale, that all your other kids remain healthy, and that they are the only one that has had problems. Then wash your hands of them and add them to your "do not sell to" list!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Not that she told me of. She said "a vet friend" told her it was probably an ongoing infection because of the tears in her eyes. I haven't gotten any pictures to show illness or death or any "proof". I looked back at my message with her and she mentions on 10/19 that the second doe was good, following her everywhere, eating, drinking and alert. Then again on 10/24 "Maria is doing well, eyelids are pink and I'm giving baking soda and salt daily". The next message was today saying Maria died and she wants a refund and that she had been sickly the whole time.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> Not that she told me of. She said "a vet friend" told her it was probably an ongoing infection because of the tears in her eyes. I haven't gotten any pictures to show illness or death or any "proof". I looked back at my message with her and she mentions on 10/19 that the second doe was good, following her everywhere, eating, drinking and alert. Then again on 10/24 "Maria is doing well, eyelids are pink and I'm giving baking soda and salt daily". The next message was today saying Maria died and she wants a refund and that she had been sickly the whole time.


Sounds suspicious to me!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I honestly am starting to feel like I'm getting scammed. I hate to even think that could be a possibility because this lady seemed so nice and friendly and I'd even purchased from her in the past. I offered her the buck she traded me as a refund and she doesn't want a buck and said that she isn't comfortable taking another animal from my property because it might be "infected".


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

This is like torture for me. I love these goats and hate to see this happen. I'm an introvert and confronting people is so difficult for me. I just don't know what to do. It makes me want to never sell another animal.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Calistar said:


> Oh no, I am so sorry you are going through this again! What a nightmare!
> 
> I would absolutely not give her a refund. One death is sad but things happen. Two deaths points to the new owner's care, or lack thereof. Have Any of your other buyers had sick/dead kids? Have any of your retained kids gotten sick or died? I expect not. How long has she had the replacement kid? If you feel like you have to do something, you could offer to refund only if they have a necropsy done that reveals that it was a congenital issue that caused the death- any other COD would be beyond your control. (And I bet they won't!) Otherwise, I'd just apologize but explain that the goats were both healthy at the time of sale, that all your other kids remain healthy, and that they are the only one that has had problems. Then wash your hands of them and add them to your "do not sell to" list!


I have not had anyone tell me any of the other kids I've sold have had problems. I did have one mama that needed treatment after being sold but the baby was perfectly fine, it was just post-delivery parasites for the mom. We've lost a few of kids that we weren't going to sell. One was slightly premature and he lived for 2 months. One I believe was injured by an adult goat because we found her in a corner. There were no signs of illness prior to her death. The third was due to parasites and was treated by the vet. Other than that all of my kids have been thriving. We've had 12 babies born here, so not a huge amount.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

What a joke. Im sorry your going threw this. Why didn’t she have her “vet friend” examine and save the first kid when it wasn’t feeling well? 
When were these goats sold to her? 
You have two options. 1. Tell her I’m sorry she lost the second kid. But because I have no control over anything once the animals leave my farm I do not offer a refund (still working on my coffee but along those lines, spice it up)
2. Tell her to get a necropsy done and a vet report that stating the proof that you sold her a infected goat and then you will offer a refund or a credit. Throw the ball in her court and watch her sweat


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I sold them to her on 10/9, so about a month ago. I asked her about the necropsy and told her if it was something on my end I would definitely make it right. She said she is not having it done and is scared to bring any more goats onto her farm now. She's moving her goats to a different area of her property and getting new hay, etc. She said her vet friend told her that she knows of someone who buys goats all the time and has lost babies like that to infections that were on going and neither seller or buyer were aware of.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I'm expecting her to blast me on the local sales pages. We live in a small town and I feel like she's not going to let it go. :-(


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Let her and she will look like the biggest fool! Keep your messages. If you offered a refund after a necropsy then you just proved you stand behind your animals and are willing to do the right thing, BUT are not willing going to be scammed. There is nothing else you could do to make it right and quit honestly offering to refund or credit after she has proof is more then a lot of people would do after being in her care for a month. 
What infection is she even talking about that would pop up after a month. She is slinging crap out of her mouth. I would just stop talking to her now but dang I sure would be tempted to ask what this infections name is that her so called buddy vet says they have because it had a runny eye. 
Either 1. It didn’t die or 2 she knows it’s not your fault. Sorry but if I thought someone sold me a bad animal and I was offered that I would be in the car making the long 3 hour drive to get that necropsy done. 
(Deep breath) keep your messages, like forever, and be prepared to show your side of things. And just cut all contact to her. She made her choice she is done


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, you are not at fault.

Necropsy and have them try to prove it, which they cannot.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

I agree as well, if you can print out the messages! But definitely save them!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

That is too bad that she is trying to scam you. You might send a registered letter stating that if she gets a necropsy done (at her expense) at a state lab 
and it is determined that you (the breeder) are at fault, then you would refund the money. That way, you are covered. (Be sure and make copies of the 
letter, etc.). 

People like her are why a lot of people just send extra kids to the sale barn. It's a whole lot easier. (and sadder, but I try not to think about that).
And- 1 more reason I don't do social media!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

My advise to you is this.
1. Get her to send you the proof of necropsy
2. Get her "vet friends" number and ask about the incidents
3. Print out the messages she sent you
4. Insist on pictures 

This lady is scamming you. I guarentee you the 2 babies are probably alive and sold at a sale yard. Or they were beaten to death or starved to death.

He who alledges must prove.

Stamd your ground. And if she slams you in any way, you sue her for slander.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Exactly @Tanya I'd be getting the necropsy done if I were her and thought it was breeders fault... seems like a scam  unfortunately there are people like that!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Thank you all so much for the support. I am not going to be selling on social media anymore after this one! I asked if she would have the necropsy done to try to find cause of death because I would make things right if it was my fault but she said she wasn't going to have that done so I am taking that as her final answer. I won't be refunding her the money or doing business with her again!

You know what gets me the most is that I gave her such a great deal. I sold her two does for the price of $150 plus one unwanted buck. The more I hear and talk this out with ya'll and my friends I do believe I got played here. This is definitely not worth the $150 and a buck (who has turned out to be a fence crawler).


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> That is too bad that she is trying to scam you. You might send a registered letter stating that if she gets a necropsy done (at her expense) at a state lab
> and it is determined that you (the breeder) are at fault, then you would refund the money. That way, you are covered. (Be sure and make copies of the
> letter, etc.).
> 
> ...


You are right! And that’s what I did this year with all but a few kids. I had a few buyers I knew were not a pain in the butt so sold then what they wanted and packed the rest up and took to the sale. I just could not deal with people and their crap this year. I guess I still can’t because I just dumped another 5 does today. 
Your going to find that’s some people are just like that no matter where you sell. Ive even had buyers that were great one year and we were friendly with each other and then pull crap. You just need to get your contract together. It takes care of so much back and forth. People will still pull crap but at least you can put them in their place easier. 
And I do have to admit I have had WAY more pleasant buyers then I have problem children, it’s just those problem children that just kinda ruin it :/


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great advice


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

It looks like she backed off after I mentioned having the necropsy done to determine cause. My husband also recommended blocking her so that if we do sell any more we won't be dealing with her. I discovered a few more red flags that confirm to me that ya'll are right about me being scammed. Thank you so much for all the helpful tips and support!

Going forward, I'm going to present any buyers with a recent fecal result, a bill of sale that states no refunds or exchanges and that the animal is sold as-is, and probably meet somewhere so I'm not having to give out my home address.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad you threw that at them and seen they were not honest about the deaths.

Good work.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If they transported in the back of a truck, pneumonia is a real possibility- stress of moving, drafts on the ride, etc. They didn't mention anitbiotics in the list of what they supposedly did. Not your responsibility.


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