# Cystic ovaries



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I'm looking for some help here with a doe I BELIEVE is cystic (from what I have googled on her)
Ok history-just shy of 4 years old, kidded once with previous owner, I purchased her later after that and she kidded once with me. Last year. Never settled, came into heat roughly every 30 days. Once I realized she wasn't just in love with the buck and wasn't going to kid I gave her a Bose shot and a small diet. Came into heat this year 10-28 and again last night, so over 30 days.
Anyways I CAN get a vet involved but I don't trust their smartness (is that a word?) when it come to goats.
Soooo does this sound cystic? If so or even not what meds and doses do i need her to get. Walk me threw it so I can make sure it's done right. I'm getting very frustrated with this doe but don't want to sell her. OH almost forgot part of the reason I think is why cystic, she has always been a sweet goat, easy to catch and lead. When she was actually bred the worse on being hormonal she got was simply not really wanting to be touched, once cornered or offered grain in problem. Now starting last year if I get around her she puts her hair up at me and kinda cocks her head at me. Never has attacked even when I still reach out and pet her.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You will need to get cystorlin from the vet.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Humm..cystic overies from what i read...causes sporadic heat cycle..short and often. When they come in heat on a normal cycle im thinking something else is going on. I have two im dealing with..i decided to order a hormone cleans herbal thinging lol...see if that clears things up....one is super fat so we are working on that as well....
I ordered from land of havenah


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I found one site that said cystic ovaries they come into heat even as long as 42 days between. And something else, lack of hormones of some kind maybe is less often. Another place I read short cycling is from a UTI and still long time frame between heats is cystic. Let me see if I can find them again  and Karen do you know the dose on that stuff?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok this was off another forum so I just copied it 

Cystic ovaries, Uterine infections, Freemartins, Pseudohermaphrodites: Differentiation and Treatment: 

Right now in the early part of the breeding season might be good time to offer some guidance to readers who are trying to figure out what’s wrong when that favorite doe fails to 'settle' despite the fact that in most cases she clearly appears to be in season. 

I often get posts along about now like the one below, which reads: 
"One of our does seems to be cystic- she keeps short-cycling. What is the correct protocol for administering Cystorelin or Factrel? The instructions don't mention any particular timing, and neither did our Vet, but on the internet I often read about people giving it when the doe is in heat. And when do you give a second dose?" 

The email above contains a very common misconception, wherein the doe's owner is assuming she has one problem (cystic ovaries), but describes the symptoms (short cycling) for quite another problem (metritis). I’ll try to help the reader to differentiate one breeding problem from another, and to offer some guidance in repairing the difficulty if that can be done. 

CYSTIC OVARIES: 

There’s a little ‘lump’ called the corpus luteum that sits on the doe’s ovary. Its job is to keep the uterus stable in whatever stage it is in. That stage could be anestrus (that prolonged period of time each year when does do not come into heat), or standing heat, or pregnancy, or labor... The body produces a hormone called prostaglandin that, by controlling the life-span of the corpus luteum, determines the length of each of those stages. As the appropriate time to end any stage approaches, this natural prostaglandin is produced gradually until there is enough of it to kill the corpus luteum, which, once dead, allows the uterus to move into the next scheduled stage. In does with cystic ovaries, however, for undetermined reasons a hormonal imbalance in the goat keeps the natural prostaglandin from being produced in sufficient amounts in her body to kill the corpus luteum at the appointed time, and as a result the doe is unable to move to the next scheduled stage, which in this case would be a standing heat. So the corpus luteum just sits there and stays as-is, and it is said that she has 'cysts' on her ovaries (aka ‘cystic’ ovaries). This hormonal imbalance that has stopped the production of prostaglandin will also cause her to exhibit buck-like behavior, of which 'blurping' sounds and aggression are classic symptoms. So when a doe has cystic ovaries, she will fail to come into a true, standing heat, and she will act ‘bucky’ on top of that. 

I have generally treated cystic ovaries quite successfully with an injection of HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, an Rx) to correct the hormonal imbalance. That is followed about 9-10 days later by an injection of Lutalyse (a man-made prostaglandin), the result being that in the absence of the natural prostaglandin, the artificial prostaglandin will do the job for it, killing the corpus luteum so she can go into a normal standing heat from 36 to 72 hours later, at which time she can be bred. 

UTERINE INFECTION (Metritis): 

Occasionally a doe, if she does not conceive when initially bred, will return to a standing heat a short 7 to 14 days later, instead of waiting for the usual 21 days. Bred again by the owner, the story repeats itself. This is known as 'short-cycling', and it is an indication of a uterine infection (aka ‘metritis’). This infection within the uterus will prevent a conception from taking place. Generally the problem is the result of the owner having had to assist at the previous freshening, in so doing accidentally introducing pathogenic bacteria into the womb. In the two or three weeks immediately following the assisted freshening the owner may overlook a ‘pinkish’ (as opposed to a dark reddish) tinge in the lochia (post-partum discharge), indicating that a uterine infection has set in. After that, however, commonly no further signs will be observed… No temp, no abnormal discharge, milk production is normal… This is because, unlike other mammals such as dogs, horses, et al, the goat has an amazing way of containing the infection within the walls of the uterus itself. 

Because of this potential for post-partum uterine infection during an assisted birthing, I always, immediately at its conclusion, prepare about 7cc of Oxytetracycline LA200, diluted with about 25cc of saline or sterile water, in a 35cc syringe, and infuse that right into the uterine cavity while the cervix is still wide open and accessible. This flushing with diluted oxytetracycline (diluted to prevent irritation of the uterine tissue) prevents any possibility of pathogenic bacteria getting a foothold in the vulnerable uterus, which, if allowed to happen, will result in the doe being unable to become pregnant when she is bred the following breeding season unless or until the infection caused by those bacteria is cleared up. Oxytetracycline, an antibiotic that is accessible and inexpensive, is very effective in treating uterine infections in goats, and it is preferred over penicillin, which is also accessible and inexpensive, but does not have a good track record in this situation. 

I have learned the hard way that this immediate, preventative uterine care following an assisted delivery is the wisest approach. Although it is not impossible to clear up a uterine infection in the Fall, when the doe lets you know by short-cycling that there’s a problem, it is very difficult to do so. You see, during the breeding season she can only be treated when she is at the peak of her standing heat, when the cervix is fully dilated (wide open), to facilitate the entry of semen. And either you, yourself, must be experienced in doing A-I, or you will need to find someone else that is experienced with this process, as well as available (possibly at midnight), to do it for you, because in addition to the likelihood that said peak might actually take place in the middle of the night, the procedure used for flushing an infected uterus with oxytetracycline is the same as for doing an artificial insemination, with the only difference being that instead of infusing a straw full of semen through the doe’s cervix and into the uterus, you will be infusing a 35cc syringe full of diluted LA200 in there. You should be aware that if you permit someone who is not experienced in the A-I process to attempt this procedure on your doe, you risk losing her to your breeding program permanently. 

Unfortunately, unless your veterinarian actually raises, and is experienced at doing the A-I procedure with, goats, he or she will not be able to help you with this. The process requires training, experience, and specialized equipment, and caprine artificial insemination is not a subject that is taught in veterinary school. The veterinary profession, seeking some alternative to offset veterinarians’ inability to repair caprine uterine infections using that method, has devised a rather complex series of hormonal injections, designed to (it is hoped) correct the problem. This alternative procedure, time-consuming and expensive, has an unsettlingly unpredictable rate of success. At the same time, when a veterinarian who is not experienced in the area of caprine reproductive medicine is asked for guidance regarding this dilemma, he or she will most likely tell the owner of a doe with a uterine infection that diluted LA200 should not be used to 'flush' the uterus, as it is too 'irritating' to that tender organ. However, the procedure was taught to me by Dr Bob Bondurant, who was the large animal reproductive specialist at UC Davis in the 1980's (and who I believe is still there in that capacity), and I have had phenomenal success with it. 

As noted above, experience with the A-I process, and the equipment one uses for it (A-I sheath, speculum, special light source) is essential to this procedure, which is as follows: 

The aforementioned 35cc syringe with the diluted LA200 in it is connected with a 1 inch rubber tube to an A-I sheath, which at the optimum time during the standing heat must be carefully inserted via the speculum thru the doe’s wide open cervix and flushed directly into the interior of the uterus, with the handler using the special light source as a guide. This flushing, combined with systemic injections of LA 200, has resulted for me in a 100% success rate in reversing a uterine infection. 

Addendum: After treatment the doe will conclude her cycle normally. She should return to standing heat in 21 days, at which time she can be re-bred. 

If you cannot either do this for your doe, or have a capable friend that can do it for you, you will have lost a good doe to your breeding program, which in my view is very sad, as well as having been preventable. For that reason I strongly urge the reader to conclude an assisted birth with a diluted oxytetracycline flush preventatively as noted above. 

FREEMARTIN and PSEUDOHERMAPHRODITE does: 

This category of non-breeders is the most frustrating of all, because unlike the others it is untreatable. Every year I get requests for help from individuals who tell me that they cannot 'catch' their favorite doe in season. They are always sure that they must have 'missed' the cycles. Last year I spent many months trying to help a woman who had bought at auction a 'really nice' 4-year-old Boer doe with a fine pedigree from a man that she declared undyingly was a good and honorable person, who ‘would never cheat her', and who had told her that the doe had previously freshened every year (this despite the fact that when pressed, she told me that there was no development of the mammary system, which she was sure had simply 'shrunk back down')! She had left this doe with her buck for several months, and although the doe did not appear to be pregnant, after her last possible due date had passed she 'lutalysed' her anyway, hoping desperately to produce the kid she was sure had to be in there. That effort, as expected, was unsuccessful. The owner, when asked, told me the doe was not showing any 'bucky behavior', to which I responded that she didn't sound 'cystic'. Still hopeful, she asked me to guide her thru the treatment for cystic ovaries anyway, sadly with no change. Finally I asked her to find someone who knew how to do A-I and had A-I equipment and would come to her farm and examine the doe vaginally. She said she knew of no one with that capability, and that was where we left the saga in July. 

The reason I had asked her to find this person with A-I capability was that I wanted someone to check the doe out vaginally. To do this one needs to insert an A-I speculum coated with KY jelly gently up into the doe’s vagina, just as we do for Artificial Insemination. Examination with the special light source would have revealed one of three things: 


1) At the far end of the vagina, a clearly defined cervix (looks like a pink elastrator band) would be visible. Best-case scenario! 

Or: 

2) The speculum would not insert very far into the vagina, but instead, at what should have been about half to 2/3 of the way in, it would come to a halt… at a blank wall! This would indicate that the doe was a freemartin", a female developed in the same uterine horn with a male fetus, wherein the male hormones interfered with her development of female characteristics. Result: No female reproductive organs! A nice pet for someone... 

Or: 

3) The speculum would be unable to penetrate thru the vulva into the vagina at all, because lo and behold, it was stopped dead in its tracks by a penis! If this were an older animal, by that time it probably would have been exhibiting aggressive male behavior... In a younger animal, however, perhaps not... If placed in a pen full of normal does, these goats, known as pseudohermaphrodites, will make great 'teasers'. They have the internal characteristics of one sex, and external characteristics of the other. They are sterile, but they will mount a doe that is in season, helping with herd management by alerting the owner to take her to a buck for breeding. 

Having said all of the above, one more suggestion is in order: If your doe is not settling, and has NONE of the signs indicated above, but is returning cooperatively to heat every 21 days, you might want to do a breeding soundness exam on the prospective dad! 


(While I urge you to share this information with other individual goat owners, please do not reproduce the article for publication without my specific permission. Thank you. Sue Reith.)


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Little Bits and Pieces would know the dose. I think Tenacross knows it too. I have never used it.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..little bits has the protocol...I have a thread on here for Bell...she was very helpful on the info....


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

My vet said 50-100mcg IM for cysterelin. I believe that is one to two ml but check the bottle.

I think cystic does typically short cycle as said by others.

An experienced goat person told me to treat for a full 10 treatments of LA 200 and ok to try flushing the uterus for metritis... But not to hold my breath that it would work.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok sorry kids bus came. Well now I can't find the other site that said a long cycle is cysts ERRRR but did find one when I was looking fat did say short cycle was from being cystic. So now I'm confused by it all. I do have a call into the vet already. Ok just thought of something. She is just getting over a staph infection on her bag, it's not totally cleared up but look much better. Any chance that's part of some kind of issue


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had a vet look at Bell, she said she's fat, not cystic..what she considers an easy keeper...ha penning one alone is not easy!!...she suggested dry lotting and dibbing her hay and chaf but no grain...she comes in heat every 21-22 days. Trudy on the other hand is not fat..cycles normal...but can be bucky,,,hoping the herbs help before going meds...


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Diamonds is very Bucky right now. Usually when I have a few in heat they will jump eachother and that's is. She is blubber like a mad man out there but when the buck runs over to see what's going on she puts her butt in his face. I am so confused by her right now. I thought I had it figured out but maybe not. This get is a horse vet but I mean she should be able to figure it out hopefully, if she even calls :/


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Sounds like she's probably cystic. Relatively easy to solve though. I would be on the safe side and get two, 2cc syringes of cystorelin. When she is receptive to the buck give her 2cc, and 24hrs later give the 2nd round. Another name for the cystorelin is factrel, same exact drug just a different name.

ETA: If she had any bad smelling discharge and wasn't settling, that would be a uterine infection and would need flushes to clear it up. If she wasn't settling and didn't have any smelly discharge, I would say she's deficient in copper, selenium, etc, too fat or too thin, or cystic. BUT since she is bucky, that's a good indicator of cystic ovaries.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh you are a life saver!!! Maybe I'll give her another dose of Bose to be on the safe side, it's been about 5 months and I under dosed her. I'm pretty good on keeping up on copper. And I haven't seen any discharge really but did think of a infection so I got down and dirty inspecting that and no bad smell. We will just leave it at that so people don't know the nasty things about animals  
I haven't got a call back from the vet, she is the only one in the area and really doesn't want to do goats but will if she has time. I can get ahold of Factrel. Same dose on that if I have to go at this solo?
OH!! Does it matter if it's sq or IM on the shots?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Factrel works  Same dose. I'd do 2cc when she is receptive for the buck, like as soon as you see her allowing him to mount her run out and give her 2cc :lol: then give 2cc 24hrs after that. Deep in the muscle, it won't do crap if you give it subq.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I ordered it, it could take up to a month to get here but hey what the heck. Still hoping vet calls but I have a back up now. Thank you so very very much and hopefully this works!!!


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok going at this alone!! Just got off the phone with the vet. She asked about Bose blah blah she told me to put her on 5 days of la200 wait a month and try again. If that doesn't work just cull her because she isn't fertile and with the testing that will cost 100's of dollars it will just tell us she is not fertile. WTH???? She IS FERTILE or she wouldn't have had 2 kids walking around right now eerrrrrr. And this is why I pretty much don't waste my time calling a vet unless the animal is on its death bed


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ugh, what an idiot vet! LA200 wouldn't do anything for her anyway if she did have an infection. You HAVE to flush the uterus itself if there is an infection, injected antibiotics won't touch an infection. 
And the 100's of dollar testing is a load of BS. All they have to do to check for cysts is an ultrasound, which doesn't cost more than $35 usually.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I didn't think she was telling the truth. Every single page I read trying to figure out what her issue is said the same thing as you just did on needing her to be flushed. I think she simply just didn't want to deal with this. She's busy and I get that horses are #1 for her but it's not like I even needed the meds right this minute lol but I can get the goods so I'm not worried. It will work or it will not.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok totally confused here.
I ended up giving her a shot of Bose after I made this thread up. Haven't seen a sign of heat till now. This morning went out and she has a small amount of red blood discharge. I don't know why if the bose worked and that was the issue she should abort with blood after what a month? Went out to give some shots and she is flagging and the buck is half way interested in her. Not overly aggressive yet. Give her the shot?? She's standing still. If she is bred will it harm the kids? What would you do here. I'm assuming I need to jump on that shot fast


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok went to make sure that discharge doesn't smell bad (just has a small tinge of pee smell) and the buck is mounting her now so ran in and got the fractal and gave it to her. So hopefully I didn't screw anything up. She is very moody and even cocked her head off to the side and acted like she wanted to go up on her back legs at me. This is NOT how she has ever acted


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Sorry so late to reply. Cystorelin/Factrel shouldn't mess anything up if she is pregnant (probably isn't if she's acting like she's in heat now though). 
Remember to dose again in 24hrs.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No your fine and thank you  by any chance do you know what's up with her bleeding? It's mostly clear mucus with bright red blood.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Not too sure about the little bit of blood. They usually will have some bloody discharge if they abort after 3 weeks along, so it could possibly be that, or maybe the bose did work on getting some gunk off and there's a broken capillary? Not too sure on that. 

I had a doe this year have some bright red blood after she was bred, but I'm pretty sure she is still pregnant and due in March.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I was either thinking some gunk came out as well or maybe she was settling for the last breeding which is why I was kinda worried about giving it to her but they are totally in love out there so I'm not thinking that's the case lol


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok she is flagging and standing for the buck today. What do you suggest I do? Just leave her be for now. I've kinda already came to the idea I'm not getting kids out of her this go around and maybe try for fall kids if she comes into heat but I'm not thinking giving her another dose of this stuff is a good idea (???)


----------



## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Eh- I know a neighbor did it on a five day great as well. I don't know anything about it but he did do it twice. (2 shots first heat) (2 shots 5 day heat).


----------



## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

His doe took. She was an 8 or 9 yo cystic doe. She was full on Bucky acting. She blubbered, mounted, hair spiked up, whole yards.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I think I missed this go, buck is on the other side of the pen now :/ so I'll keep a eye on her for the next one......if I don't strangle her by then lol she's lucky I like her I swear!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

@Lil Boogie here is a good thread on A doe not settling.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

And since someone will be reading this I’ll give a update: I got her to settle, 2 healthy bucks born! The following year she went back to having the same symptoms and not settling so I culled her.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the update.


----------



## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks for the update! I was going to ask!


----------

