# pregnant goat



## Griz

I haven't posted in quite awhile. I had a very sick momma goat with two kids "momma down" was the thread. I had to bottle fee the babies and everything was going good weaned the babies at 9 weeks and put them in the pasture with all the other goats, including the momma. They didn't try to nurse or anything, she thought they were just more goats, she really didn't pay attention to them as if they were hers (pics attached) Anyway about 2 weeks ago the momma died, no indication she wasn't feeling good again just standing one minute and dead the next. I was very upsetting to think she came such a long way from being so sick when she had the babies to doing great and then died. I have another doe due anytime, but she isn't acting like the other one did when she was pregnant. This one is huge, (pic attached)she is swelling up and her belly is almost touching the ground so I know she's dropped, her sides have caved in and her ligs are soft, (I can almost touch my fingers) but she is not bagging up. The other one was bagged up a good 5 weeks before she kidded. And the buck keeps rubbing her back side I don't know why she is definitely pregnant but he just follows her around and he doesn't try to mount either. Any advise would be appreciated, am I just being a nervous Nellie?


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## ksalvagno

I would remove the buck. The hormones are attracting him.


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## Goat_Scout

I'm sorry that you lost your one doe.  And I agree, you should probably separate the buck. 

Is this her first time? I've heard that some goats don't bag up until right before kidding, or some even don't properly until after kidding. Do you have a picture of her backend?


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## Griz

We're having him castrated next week so hopefully that will help. This is her 4th pregnancy. She's about 8 yrs old, the one that died was her daughter. I can't get a pic of her backend but was wondering, does the tail always look funny when they are about to kid. She's puffy and ligs are loose but tail isn't funky. The goat you see behind her is the daddy


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## Griz

This is a pic of her from the side


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## Goat_Scout

One of my goats held her tail at an awkward angle when she was near kidding. It sounds like she will kid before you have your buck castrated!


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## Griz

So with her sunken sides and ligs in her tail loose she's getting close. Shouldn't she start bagging up by now


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## ksalvagno

Most do but some bag up when they kid.


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## toth boer goats

Each doe can be different.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Any news?


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## Griz

Nope still no babies.


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## capracreek

I do not let my bucks run with my does. I have read that just like pigs the buck can butt the doe to cause her to loose the kids and go back into heat so he can breed her. Plus I figure he might also stress them and cause them to abort.


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## Griz

We removed the buck yesterday and she bellowed for about 30 mins and then got relaxed. She seems to be more settled now that it's just her and her grand babies. She's been rubbing her right side more today but she still hasn't bagged up. She won't let me touch her teats but they are long and pointing outward. I'm so excited I might just be seeing things


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## toth boer goats

Glad the buck was removed. 
I agree, I remove mine after about 2 to 3 months of breeding time, 2 heat cycles depending on if all have taken and do not show signs of heat.


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## Griz

She has kidded 3 times before I got her so I don't know what her teats looked like then but they have gotten a lot longer in the last month and won't let me touch them. I think she is just alittle more bagged in the last week but nothing like the doe I lost a month before she kidded. I don't know if she's a late bagger or not. Are the long teats a sign shes getting close


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## Suzanne_Tyler

It might be a sign for her. Each doe is so different though, it there is no way to actually know when they're getting close. You just have to know the individual goats.


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## toth boer goats

That Doe code of honor.


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## Griz

This is the same goat late june


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## Suzanne_Tyler

toth boer goats said:


> That Doe code of honor.


Yep lol


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## Griz

Here are pics of her. The first in late June and the now. Any opinion on due date would be appreciated


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## Suzanne_Tyler

There really isn't any way to tell.


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## Griz

I'm driving myself nuts waiting.


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## toth boer goats

:crazy: 
This is how I feel with some of mine when I am waiting.

I know the feeling.


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## Griz

Well this morning she just laid around got up laid back down not doing anything, she's usually up and eating like crazy but not this morning. We left for about 3 hrs thinking we may have babies when we get back but nope. Her udders have filled just alittle but more but not much and now she keeps turning around and licking or biting her girlie bits and it looks like her whole belly has moved to her butt. Shes not laying on her right side anymore which she use to do when laying down. Also, the babies 2 1/2 months old from the momma who died is in the pasture with her. Is that fine?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

So long as they aren't trying to nurse off her I wouldn't worry about them. Though some people do like to separate does that are close to kidding. 

I sounds like she's getting super close


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## toth boer goats

If she is close and you cannot watch her, I would separate her from them. If she kids, the youngsters may get in the way, confusing her and the new babies born, they may not know who mama is and she may disown them. 
When she kids, she and her new babies should have time to bond, it is usually 3 day alone with her babies unless they are weak, then it should be longer. 
I would also make sure the older kids won't nurse her.

Otherwise, it is OK to have the older kids with her, if you can watch her. 

She may be in pre-labor now, as to why she is acting different.


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## Griz

They haven't even tried to nurse her and they do keep their distance from her. She is the head goat of the bunch so they know their pecking order already. I watch them all the time they in front of my house and I keep binoculars handy. I thought she was labor this morning she just couldn't get settled and I swear it looked like she was squatting and pushing but still nothing.


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## toth boer goats

If she is pushing, that is labor.
Unless she was just peeing.


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## Griz

She had just finished doing both her businesses so it wasn't that but today she's just walking around eating and still rubbing/biting her backside. This girl is definitely driving me nuts. The babies can't explode out her sides right? I know they can't but how much bigger can she get. We even saw the babies moving yesterday while she was standing still. Even my husband was amazed


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## toth boer goats

:haha: No they cannot. But I thought about popping the belly like a zit, to get them out of there, just kidding of course, LOL. They do stress us, don't they. 

What side was the movement of the babies?

If you do end up using lute, be absolutely sure of her kidding date. 

Yes, if they are in there too long after due date, they will grow and can be too big for natural birth. That would mean a c-section.


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## Griz

The right side, there has to be at least two after grazing all day and her rumen full she looks like she swallowed two giant beach balls. We're are not sure of due date. I THINK early or late April The skin of her back legs to stomach is so stretched out when she walks she just waddles. I feel so bad for her. It's hard for her to lay down and then get back up. The billy that bred her is a Nigerian dwarf and the other goat that had twins by him was barely showing when she had hers


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## toth boer goats

Due date April? They only carry for 5 months.
I'm confused?


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## Griz

No no April is when I think she got knocked up


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## New-goat-mom

If she got pregnant April 20th (just threw that date out there) today would have been her due date using the calculator thing I obsess over just in case my girls every get knocked up! Lol You should be getting babies very soon even if it was a bit later! Lucky you!


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## Griz

I hope it was April. If it was May I'm gonna be a basket case by October


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## Goats Rock

Griz said:


> I hope it was April. If it was May I'm gonna be a basket case by October


That is all part of her master plan! She somehow got ahold of "The Goat Code of Honor"! Bwahahhhhaaa ! :haha:
Best of luck in your kidding.


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## Griz

I also have 10 wk old twins that I bottle fed when their momma got sick and died. One billy and one doe. When do I need to seperate them so they don't breed to each other.


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## Griz

Will a pregnant goat clean her teats when she is getting close to delivery? I was checking on my momma to be and her teats are like a pale pink they were brown just last week. Is it something to worry about


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## Goat_Scout

Usually a buckling can breed as early as 8 weeks. So you should probably separate them now. 

And as for the doe, she may just be licking back there. Or, one of the kids might be sneaking a drink. Did you say her udder hasn't filled up though?


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## Griz

Oh crap. I thought they had to be at least 4 months old to breed, billy or doe. Momma goat doesn't let them get close enough to nurse and her udder hasn't filled. That's one of the things I was worrying about, if her udder isn't filling then she must fill after kidding. She is huge so I do t think she'll go til October


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## toth boer goats

Breeding age is 1 year or older and depending on if they have grown properly and not too small.

Everyone has good advice and yes, she should drop at any time then.

Now that you mentioned her teats seem clean, I wonder if she is a self sucker. She may be drinking her own milk and that may be why her udder isn't full. Can you put a udder bra on her and see if she fills then?


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## Griz

Is being a self sucker bad. Is she is will she stop when the babies are born what about the colosseum is that gone now


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## ksalvagno

Yes it is bad. She will not stop doing it for her kids. There won't be colostrum for the kids.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Put an old skirt on her, or one of those restricting collars, so that she can't get to there teats. If her udder gets tight, then she's a self nurser.


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## Griz

What do you mean tight, right now they just kinda hanging not filling up so if they get tight then wouldn't that mean her udders are filling? She has kidded several times and never had a problem nursing her kids. If she's a self nurser wouldn't she have always been a self nurser? As much as I've been watching her wouldn't I have seen her doing that


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Griz said:


> What do you mean tight, right now they just kinda hanging not filling up so if they get tight then wouldn't that mean her udders are filling?


That is correct.



Griz said:


> She has kidded several times and never had a problem nursing her kids. If she's a self nurser wouldn't she have always been a self nurser?


Not necessarily.



Griz said:


> As much as I've been watching her wouldn't I have seen her doing that


They can be sneaky about it.


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## Griz

OMG. just something else I have to worry about. She is gonna make me crazy worrying. Anyone got a tranquilizer for ME??


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Lol. Have you read the Does' Code of Honor?


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## toth boer goats

Everyone has given great advice. 

Find a way to stop her from self sucking, she may be completely empty because she drained it all out herself and keeps doing it. If we can restrain her from self sucking we will soon see her fill and it may still be enough time to prepare her for her kids. That is if that what is happening. 
If she has never done it before, it is unusual and I guess after she kids, hopefully she won't do it anymore. Only have to wait and see.


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## goatblessings

I have a doe whose teats get very pink when she is strutted (udder full) and ready to deliver. Don't know if that helps at all or just adds to the craziness!


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## Tracy momma of 4

Thank you for this information and pictures. This is our first time and we are nervous and excited. Would love any advise of what is needed on hand asap!


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## Tracy momma of 4

I'm reading all your post and getting very anxious for her delivery!


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## Tracy momma of 4

Any news on delivery?


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## Griz

I think she is getting closer. Her right side has really sunken in more and in the mornings before she starts grazing her right side is really lumpy. As the day goes on and her rumen gets full she looks like a beached whale. I have realized she is not a self nurser as her teats were not as white and pink and I thought. I even got to thinking she might have bloat but she has absolutely no signs of that. Her vulva is swelling little by little and so are her udders.


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## Griz

One other thing is it normal for the right side to look odd, the left side (rumen) looks more rounded where the right (babies) looks lumpy


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## Goat_Scout

When my doe got near the end of her pregnancy her right side was like that - sometimes lumpy looking when the kids were moving around. It is normal.


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## Griz

My girls udders are more under her than behind her like yours. Also, shes going to bed earlier than normal and she'll stand in the corner with her butt right up against it. Shes been doing this for about 4 days. I'll go look for her and she's just standing there. Is all this normal? I didn't get to witness all this with the first one as they were in the back pasture but with them up front I'm noticing every little thing. I have a pic of the other one the day before she kidded and this one has looked like that for a month. If she doesn't have them soon they are gonna have horns and then I'm gonna be in a real pickle.


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## Griz

Sorry I forgot to attach a pic. This is the most recent


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## goatblessings

Wow. She's gonna pop!


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## Griz

I have attached a pic of my very pregnant and very stubborn doe. We got hit here in MS by the latest hurricane, lots of wind and rain and I was certain those babies would be scared out of her. BUT no. We castrated the daddy 3 weeks ago, we used the burrizzo (however you spell it) and his big testies are now little testies


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## toth boer goats

She looks normal.


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## Griz

Normal to what a beached whale. How much bigger can she get


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## New-goat-mom

@Griz please don't let that poor thing get near a thorn bush. One poke and she'll pop and go flying through the air!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

0:28 of this video


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## Griz

Well the doe code of honor has run its course here. Hurricane Nate came thru early morning Sunday and nothing. So I guess I’m just gonna have to ignore her for her to give them up. I did give her a good brushing last night and she loved it.


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## ArborGoats

Well every day is a day closer! Fingers crossed for happy healthy babies!


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## Griz

Anyone want to guess how many she’ll have


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## ArborGoats

Depending on what she looks like normally I would go with 3... 2 bucks and a doe XD


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I'm guessing 3 as well


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## Griz

The first one is June 26 the next one is this week. Still thinking 2 or 3


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## ArborGoats

I can't wait to see what she has! How many goats do you have? Babies are always so exciting. I told myself no breeding before November 2nd... and every time someone goes into heat I'm going crazy! lol.


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## Griz

We have 5. Nubian dwarf billy another billy, dwarf/boer cross billy and doe (3.5 months old) and this boer doe


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## ArborGoats

Sounds like lots of boys! Are you hoping for girls or boys from little miss whale?


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## Griz

I really want just does but what can I do. We only had one billy and 2 does then a neighbor found a billy and brought him to us then had the babies and then their momma died so now we are over run with Billy’s. We’ve castrated the daddy billy of all theses babies and then will breed the othe billy and castrate as we breed. We only want about 15 total so if she has any Billy’s I’ll band them


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## Griz

Question for all who can answer. If she’s due this month shouldn’t her udders be bigger now. I’m gonna get good pics today of her girlie bits and udders and will post them but her udders are like balloons filled with water. Kinda squishy and floppy but not big like she’s due this month. If she has more than 2 I know we’ll have to supplement them but she’s so huge. The other one that had the twins in June was no where this big and she carried a big udder for 2 months. That doe was this ones daughter


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## ArborGoats

Did you ever find out if she was self-nursing? That could explain why she isn't filling up more with milk. 

She could be a doe that fills in last minute, and simply not get really full until after she kids. 

Since the buck was in full time there is no way to know a due date, so she could also be far enough out she is just starting to fill in and have another 3 weeks. (I sure hope not for her sake!)

The other thing that comes to mind is that if there had been previous trauma to the udder it might not fill as much as it should (but that is total hypothetical).


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## Griz

No trauma that I know of she has always been queen doe. She is not a self nurser and the two little ones have not been nursing either. I was thinking of maybe pulling one to see what comes out but I dont want to unplug her. I do t want to jeopardize her in any way


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## cbrossard

No idea what your due date might be, but here is a list that I compiled of possible signs that she could be getting close. Like everyone has said though, goats don't follow the rules, so you just never know!! Hopefully this list will give you some more ideas of what to look for! 
Labor
• Abnormal behavior: Teeth grinding, not eating/drinking, wide eyes, separating from the herd, vocalizes more or less than usual, walks more or less than usual, bites at sides, looks behind her, lies down and stands up frequently, stretching, yawning etc…
o 12-36 hours
• Lost ligaments, raised tail head, hollowed sides
o Labor within 24 hours
• Full/shiny udder
o Within 24 hours
• Long flat vulva, reduced bulge
o Within 24 hours
• Pawing the ground/ Making a nest
o ½ hour to 12 hours
• Clear or amber streaming
o Very soon
• Soft nickering
o Within 4 hours
• Arched back and tail (Contraction)
o Don’t leave her side!


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## ksalvagno

Some don't fill up until they kid. But if your bucks are just running with the does, you really don't have a due date.


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## Griz

The before and after pics I posted earlier is giving me a estimate of sometime this month. When we moved her to the front pasture mid August she was already showing so that was telling me at least 3 month since everything I’ve been studying says the kids are fully developed by then. She’s just gotten this huge over the last 6 weeks which again with my studying is telling me that the last month is when the kids start putting on the weight and getting bigger. She has kidded 3 times that I know of before 2 twins and a single. I asked my brother in law (we got her from him) if she had ever gotten this big and he said no. I’ll get some good pics later and post them for some more guesses


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## Goat_Scout

Could you get a clear picture of her rear end too? I can't wait to see how many she's got in there!


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## Griz

Here are all the pics I just took


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## Goat_Scout

Judging by the pictures I think she has another 2+ weeks to go, but I could be wrong.


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## Griz

Yeah I’ve been thinking end of the month I’ll breathe a little easier that someone else thinks as I do. She does seem smaller in her sides than last week but I think they are dropping. I’m gonna say 2 does. Hopefully


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## Griz

Got another question. Will the udders fill slowly or just one day they be filled. Hers seem bigger today but not really sure what to expect in regarding the udders


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Usually, the udder will fill slowly during late pregnancy and then as the doe goes into labor the teats will fill and the udder will dramatically increase in size as well. But it can really depend on the doe when they fill, how much, and how fast.


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## toth boer goats

Yeah, she needs to fill a lot more. 
As time goes by, it should increase more and more Then one day, you may see her udder all of a sudden super tight. And sometimes too they wait until they kid before they really fill. Each doe can be different.


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## Griz

Just an update... still no babies if she hasn’t had them by Halloween I will put up new pics. She looks miserable. I haven’t seen movement in the last week is that normal late in pregnancy? Also my little 4 month old billy, his neck seems thicker than last week. I know in deers when they go into rut their necks get big is it the same for goats.


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## Goat_Scout

What happens a lot of times with does nearing the end of their pregnancy is that the kids start moving less and less. It is normal.
And yes, it is also perfectly normal for a young buck to start getting a thicker, more "masculine" neck, just like bucks (the deer kind) and bulls.


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## Griz

I went out and checked on him this evening and now his jaw is swollen. He’s eating and we checked inside his mouth and it’s not packed with cud. His eyelids are white and his tongue is a light pink. I’m thinking worms/anemic but why would his jaw swell.


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## ksalvagno

Sounds like he has bottle jaw. Caused from large parasite load.


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## Griz

We wormed him last night and plan to give him another dose today and a B12 shot. We are using cydectin and we had just wormed him last month.


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## Oreosmom

Those are some really good close ups! LOL, hope she has a safe delivery, whenever she decides to actually deliver! Pic's of babies when she does please!!!


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## Griz

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for a wormer to work or for the anemia effects to get better. My little billy is better today but still sluggish and pale. I don’t know how he could get so infested so fast. He was fine one day and the next a mess. How often should I worm the goats and will he spread to the others.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

It can take them up to a few months to fully recover from anemia. Parasites can really take a toll on them. Are you supplementing with iron?


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## Griz

ive Been giving him raisins but I’m going into town today to get some red cell and iron supplements.


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## toth boer goats

Yeah, if he is anemic that takes a toll too. 
Getting his iron levels up will help. It may take some time for him to feel good again. Glad you are getting him red cell, do you have the dosage and how to give it? 

Also feeding some good alfalfa and giving a vit B complex shot SQ, 6 cc's per 100 lbs for a little while, 1 x a day and probiotics will help too.


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## Griz

We gave him 1/2cc of B12 yesterday he only weighs 25lbs I haven’t gotten the red cell yet today. How much do I give him? He is better today and a lot of the swelling is down except for a little knot right under his jaw.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Red cell is 6cc per 100lbs, so give him 1.5cc. 

B complex is also 6cc per 100lbs and impossible to OD. I'd bump him up to 2cc b complex per day.


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## Griz

Is there any wormer that is safe for a pregnant goat and can you OD on red cell. Is red cell, Bcomplex, B12 ok to give a pregnant goat.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Red cell and b are safe for pregnant does. Yes, red cell is easy to OD. Not sure on wormers.


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## Goat_Scout

How are they (the buckling and the pregnant doe) doing?


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## Griz

He is doing so much better. Swelling is down and he’s more himself. The does is STILL pregnant. Her vulva has gotten longer and more pronounce and her udder is filling more.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Glad he's doing better  Hopefully she'll give up those kiddos soon!


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## Griz

Still no babies. But she is acting weird today. Stretching her head way in the air rubbing at her sides. Her vulva is very puffy and protruding.


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## bamaherd

Our doe was a third freshener as of Sunday! She didn't bag up until 5 days before kidding. Her vulva was puffy 3 days prior. Her behavior didn't change at all. We had been checking on her every 4 hours or so...the final sign was the string of discharge. It was very thick and yellowish in color. After we noticed the discharge it was only 3 hours until she went into labor. The labor was very quick. It only took her about 45 minutes. Hope this helps!


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## Griz

Yes that’s very helpful. My does tail head looks more dropped off this morning. More like a triangle from the side. Still hasn’t bagged up though


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## bamaherd

I forgot to mention...her tail looked like it was broken! Crooked and off to the side. I also forgot to mention the babies didn’t drop until a few minutes before labor.


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## Griz

My other doe that kidded in July her tail never got crooked just stuck straight out


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## bamaherd

Each girl is different. I carefully logged our mamas signs and symptoms as they arrived. Hopefully that will help me next year.


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## Griz

All of our neighbors are saying she is gonna exploded she’s so big. Hopefully she have them soon so she can have a little breathing room


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## bamaherd

Bless her heart


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## Griz

How old can a doe be before she’s to old to breed


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## bamaherd

A friend of ours has an 8 year old that just kidded. Still very healthy; I’m not sure but perhaps someone else will chime in


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## Goat_Scout

I've heard that when a doe gets to be around 8 or 9 years old every year you should assess her - see if she is in good health and would probably be able to carry a pregnancy to term, and to the nurse kid(s). If she didn't hold up well during her last pregnancy/lactation, it would probably be best to retire her.


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## Griz

She’s about 8-9 yrs old. Other than being as big as a whale with this pregnancy she’s in good shape. I’m just thinking that if she has more than two it just may be time to retire her. She just seems so miserable and based on how she looks I’m thinking within the next two weeks maybe less. I’ll send pics later today


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## Griz




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## ksalvagno

Is she losing hair? Her hair looks rough. Is she getting copper, selenium and other minerals?


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## toth boer goats

I see that too.

How are her inner lower eyelid coloring?


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## Griz

No, she has been licking and rubbing her hind end, and she has been laying in the pine straw around the trees in the pasture. She is getting minerals but I haven't wormed her because shes pregnant. I plan to give her some B-complex and B-12 and some red cell Saturday. As soon as she drops her kids I plan on worming her. Her lids are pink but not real pink. If you look at other pics Ive posted of her this is just in the last few days she looks like that. I thought she was rubbing her hiney with her horns and might have scratched her self but no broken skin.


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## bamaherd

According to our vet, it’s safe to worm her with Ivomec or Cydectin drench. However, he did say if she is close to Labor it would be better to wait til after she kids.


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## Griz

I have cydectin but my vet recommended to wait. I'm thinking this week (fingers crossed) cause I have been worrying about getting her wormed. I wormed her 6 months ago and her hair issue just started, I thought she is just licking herself a lot due do just being irritated with whats happening with her girlie bits. I'm still going ahead with the red cell and Bcomplex this weekend


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## bamaherd

Griz said:


> I have cydectin but my vet recommended to wait. I'm thinking this week (fingers crossed) cause I have been worrying about getting her wormed. I wormed her 6 months ago and her hair issue just started, I thought she is just licking herself a lot due do just being irritated with whats happening with her girlie bits. I'm still going ahead with the red cell and Bcomplex this weekend


I just noticed you're in Lucedale!! How crazy! We are in Baldwin County Alabama. Right outside Mobile! Small world


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## Griz

Yeah I just saw that too. Could her hair look like that because it’s just wet from her licking. She has really been more miserable these last two days her sides toward the back are really sunken in. She looks like she’s just wanting this to be over. I don’t think I’m gonna breed her again especially if she has 3


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## bamaherd

I’m not sure, our doe didn’t lick much. Then again, she wasn’t nearly that big. Bless her heart! We pray she has an easy labor


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## Griz

What’s your thoughts on her girlie bits. This week?


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## bamaherd

Our mama got puffy about 3 days before kidding. Then the day of she became very dilated. Later on the day, the stringy discharge came.


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## Griz

My husband has cancer so we are gone most days for hours I wasn’t around for the birth of my two baby goats whose mama died and I bottle fed and am really hoping to be there for these. Mainly because she is older and so big I just don’t want her to have a hard time. I sit on my front porch with binoculars. My husband thinks I’m crazy. I thought she was dead this afternoon when we got home she was just layed up and didn’t move when the babies started greeting us. She finally moved and I took a breath. She can hardly get up once down and can hardly get down once up


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## bamaherd

We pray your husband comes through his cancer ok! I’m sorry for the loss of your other mama. I had nightmares for weeks before she finally kidded. I’d be right there with you with the binoculars! Lol; I went as far as to put a camera in the birthing barn and kept it on all night once she showed signs. We still have a baby monitor in there in case the kids cry. Sounds like she’s ready to have those babies!!!


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## Griz

Is this a puffy bit


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## bamaherd

Yes, I would call that very puffy! She looks to be dilated too. We have Nigerian Dwarfs though, so my eye may be inaccurate to the breed goat you have. From what I’ve read, dilating is one of the final signs before discharge and early labor.


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## Griz

I thought the same. Well I’ll post pictures after they’re born. Thanks for all your help and good to meet you


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## bamaherd

Can’t wait to see them!!


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## toth boer goats

I worm mine 1 month before kidding with Ivomec orally. Things have been OK throughout the years. 

Worming early gestation isn't really good unless the goat is really bad, after 100 days they say it is safe to give Ivomec, but not the plus.


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## Goat_Scout

toth boer goats said:


> I worm mine 1 month before kidding with Ivomec orally. Things have been OK throughout the years.
> 
> Worming early gestation isn't really good unless the goat is really bad, after 100 days they say it is safe to give Ivomec, but not the plus.


Where do you get your Ivomec?


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## bamaherd

We ordered ours from Jeffers.com


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## Goat_Scout

bamaherd said:


> We ordered ours from Jeffers.com


Thanks!


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## toth boer goats

Jeffers 
We actually get this one, it is the same but cheaper.
*Noromectin Injection*
https://www.jefferspet.com/products...zKg2nZhIUB6JAvN8fEJgYp-fvImlf25MaAnOSEALw_wcB


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## Goat_Scout

toth boer goats said:


> Jeffers
> We actually get this one, it is the same but cheaper.
> *Noromectin Injection*
> https://www.jefferspet.com/products...zKg2nZhIUB6JAvN8fEJgYp-fvImlf25MaAnOSEALw_wcB


Oh good, thanks! That is much more affordable.


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## Griz

I’m going to stay with the cudectin since it seems to be working fine. And it definitely took care of my little billy when he had bottle jaw. 
I could’ve sworn my doe was gonna have the babies last night. I thought she was pushing but NO she is still very much pregnant this morning. My husband said she was just getting situated.


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## Goat_Scout

Should be soon then! How does she look this morning?


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## Griz

Miserable. It’s chilly here and she’s just laying in the middle of the pasture. I’ll try to get a pic


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## Griz

Here are some pics. Her logs are gone and she’s got this faraway look in her eyes. Let me know what y’all think The billy with her is the daddy and he’s been castrated and doesn’t bother her anymore. He seems to be guarding her like an expected daddy.


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## Goat_Scout

Poor girl. It looks like she has "dropped" and is hollowed out a little more. 

Would she let you get close enough to feel her ligaments?


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## Griz

I didn’t fell any ligs where before they were like two thick cords now nothing. I’m hoping by end of week


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## Goat_Scout

Also, most of our cows and goats begin licking themselves constantly a couple days before they give birth, so I think that's a good sign with your girl. Of course, many goats like to play with our minds...


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## Goat_Scout

Oh, I'm sorry - I just scrolled up and read your post again and realized that you already said that her ligs were gone. 
I'm also thinking (and hoping) she'll have them before this weekend!


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## toth boer goats

Sounds to be soon.


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## Griz

Well another day and no babies. She has been up and eating all day. Does she not know I’m just sitting here waiting for babies. She is so stubborn


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## bamaherd

Griz said:


> Well another day and no babies. She has been up and eating all day. Does she not know I'm just sitting here waiting for babies. She is so stubborn


Bless her heart!! Our mama never lost her appetite...she ate right up until she went into labor, so don't let that discourage you.


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## Griz

Thank you for that. I swear she was pushing Wednesday night and she just lounged around all day yesterday. Her tail is definitely off center it’s not covering her girlie bits like it usually does. Her bag is bigger but not tight. She’ll have them tonight just to mess with me


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## bamaherd

How is she today?


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## Griz

Still pregnant yesterday. It’s raining here so I don’t know about this morning yet. She has definitely dilated more when I checked her yesterday. I’ll get some new pics today if it stops raining. We did give her some red cell and a B12 shot yesterday. She really needs worming. Her tongue is a light pink that’s why I did the red cell and B12


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## bamaherd

Great! Vitamin B12 will help give her extra strength. Good job!We had to give our mama a few rounds of Red Cell too. It's good stuff.


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## Griz

Well as of this post still no babies but she is getting closer. She is bagging up and very affectionate which is not like her. She is even getting along better with the 5 month olds which is definitely not like her. 

Can anyone tell me how many babies she can nurse on her own without supplementing them with a bottle. I’m thinking she’s gonna have 3 since the other doe was way smaller then she is and that one had 2. It the same daddy so they won’t be full boer kids


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## Goat_Scout

If she has twins I'm sure she'd be able to nurse them by herself, if she has triplets I would think that you'd have to supplement them with bottles. No matter how many she has, we really can't say for sure though. You'd just have to watch them all like a hawk to see if they are getting enough milk.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

It really depends on the doe. All does can handle twins just fine, but not all does can handle trips. If she has trips, keep a close eye on the smallest to make sure it's eating and gaining well.


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## Griz

Here are some pics I just took. The two little hams are the ones I bottle raised and their momma died.


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## cbrossard

Pumpkin seeds are supposed to be good natural wormer! If you have any pumpkins laying around  Might help tide her over.... As for how many they can nurse, as others have said, it depends on the doe. I have one who had triplets and she just picked her 2 favorite kids and would Not let the 3rd one nurse! I tried everything, but eventually ended up with a bottle baby.


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## toth boer goats

I agree, it does depend on the doe and how much milk she has for them all.


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## Griz

Ok she still has not had babies. Everything seems like she is so close but have not seen any discharge. Her bag has doubled and her back end is really sticking out. Every time she lays down it’s like she’s pushing but nothing. How long can pre labor last? When should I start to worry?


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## ksalvagno

Are you sure it is pushing or just from breathing?


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## Griz

I guess I’m not sure. But when she’s laying down she isn’t always looking like she’s pushing but she is breathing. Her girlie bits are sticking out more and are getting really long looking. He bag is getting heavy too.


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## toth boer goats

If she is pushing, bearing down, I would wash up, put on a new surgical glove and go in and check her. 
We sometimes miss the discharge. There may be a kid positioned wrong. If she has been pushing for a long time and didn't know it, she may be getting too exhausted to push anymore.

If she is just breathing heavy, it will be soon.


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## Griz

Would she be vocalizing if a kid is stuck. She not acting in distress


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## ksalvagno

It sounds like the kids are just taking up a lot of room and the only area with give is her back end. Does it go back to normal when she stands up?


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## Griz

Not really. It’s still sticking out and she is so hollowed out in her back end she looks like she just swallowed two huge beach balls and it’s so tight like she could explode. Her back bone tail head is so pronounced it’s like her belly is so heavy it’s pulling everything down. Her udders are getting really heavy and her teats look like they are filling She’s not in any distress she’s eating and drinking and peeing and pooping.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Sounds normal to me. Hopefully she'll go soon.


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## Goat_Scout

Just continue to keep a close eye on her... it sounds normal to me also, but I've only experienced four goat births (numerous calvings though) so far.


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## toth boer goats

Yeah, she is just uncomfortable. 

But is she prolapsing? If she is and it does not go back in, you will have have to gently push it back in.
Do not force it if it is too swollen, other options have to be done to get it back in there. But be aware, do not tear it or she will bleed out. If you have to get a vet to do it, then do so. They can put a stitch there to keep it in until she kids, then, it will have to be removed. But you do not want that to dry up outside of her, if she is prolapsed. If it is out, that is why she may be pushing a bit, not good becasue it is her vital part. And needs to be inside in order for her to kid. 

She doesn't sound quite ready yet, but getting close.


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## Griz

No she’s not prolapsed


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## toth boer goats

Good to know. Wasn't sure by the way it was described, but wanted to make sure.


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## bamaherd

How is your mama?


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## Griz

Well we finally had babies. 2 billies and a die. Unfortunately they all died. One was dead in sack and the other two lasted about 12 hrs. She would not nurse either of the two that were born alive and I tried my best to save them. I am figuring out that goats pick the worst day of the year to have their babies. Freezing weather and rain didn’t help.


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## Goat_Scout

I'm so sorry you lost them.


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## Griz

Me too.


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## ksalvagno

Sorry you lost them.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I am so sorry


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## bamaherd

Oh no!! We are so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine how you’re feeling. Is mama ok?


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## toth boer goats

I am so very sorry.


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## cbrossard

Oh no! I'm so sorry. That's so hard.


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## Griz

Momma is not doing good at all. I just don’t understand what we are doing wrong. I was able to save the last babies and they are doing great but their momma died. Now we lost all three babies and I looks like the momma is going down hill. I’ve given her some red cell and Bcomplex but she still won’t stand on her front legs. I think I’m gonna get out of trying birth goats and just buy babies. This is just too much sorrow to handle.


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## groovyoldlady

((((((Hugs))))) I am so sorry! Have you tried giving her some calcium and some molasses water? She could be suffering from ketosis or toxemia...


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## Griz

I did that the day she delivered. She seemed fine the next day when I found the babies dead. This morning is when she wouldn’t stand.


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## bamaherd

We will pray for her! When our mama was weak we treated with Red Cell and B Complex which I see you’re doing. Yay! We also fed her sweet goat feed for energy. 

If her eyelids are still quite pale, you might can try a shot of Dextran (pig iron) in her glute Muscle. Has anyone else used Dextran? 

A renowned breeder nearby swears by Dextran but says to only use it every 3 days until the goat shows improvement.


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## toth boer goats

If she is calcium deficient, shaking and cannot get up, continue to give her calcium drench, 2 x a day 30 to 60 cc's depending on her size. If she is deficient it will take more than 1 x to get her back. She needs Alfalfa hay and karo/molasses and warm water drench 2 x a day. 

Try to get her on her feet if at all possible or get a padded hoist to get her up for a little, while watching her. The longer she is off her feet she will never be able to get up again. Massage her legs and mimic movement of walking. Have her knees slightly bent so if she wants to try to put her own weight on them she can. If she is still able to stand make her even if it is for a short time. 

Is she anemic?

Is her eye's dancing. darting and her head going to one side? If so, start polio treatment high doses on thiamine every 6 hours. Fortified vit b complex has 100 mg and can be used if straight thiamine is not available by a vet.


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## Griz

She is doing better today. She was able to stand on all four for about 5 secs and she is moving around just not on her front feet she uses her front knees to move. Her poop is good and she’s eating good. I just don’t understand why birthing these babies make my goats so weak afterwards. Everything I’ve seen online and heard goats birth and go on about their business and take care of them. What could I possibly be doing wrong. The first momma was about 6 yrs old and I did do the math on this one and she’s about 12 yrs old. I have one doe left and that one I bottle fed from day 2 so I’m really attached to her so I don’t want to lose her too if she get knocked up.


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## toth boer goats

Does she have swollen front ankles? If so continue the calcium.


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## Griz

Nope nothing swollen


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## toth boer goats

Hmm, if she is improving, continue what you are doing or if she isn't, try what I suggested.


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## mariarose

First, I'm so, so, sorry.

I have not a lot to add to the excellent advice coming your way except for one thing. I had a doe with a hard delivery, and in a couple of days was not on her feet. On her knees like you said (she was an amazing mother though and made certain the surviving kid was nursing) I took her to the vet and found out she had pneumonia. I was shocked because I was completely convinced it was a birth complication. Nope, pneumonia.


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## Griz

She is doing much better all around EXCEPT the front legs issue. I have continued with B12 and red cell every three days. She is eating and drinking and peeing and pooping all regular. I did start her on penicillin two days ago and giving her some everyday with the B She doesn’t seem to be in any distress just the front legs. I stood her up and massaged her legs. I’m not sure what else we could do or what else it could be other than just weak from delivery. She is 12 yrs old so maybe she was just too old to birth.


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## toth boer goats

She needs B-1 thiamine, not B-12. 
Fortified vit B complex has it in there. 6 cc's per 100 lbs

Did this doe just kid? I forgot? I have been through so many threads. If so, she may need calcium.


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## mariarose

@toth boer goats

She has kidded triplets, 1 died right away, the other 2 died the next day. She's had calcium, but it has been unclear if it has been continued past the initial dose.


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## toth boer goats

Thank you mariarose. 

How long ago did she kid?? 

She may still need calcium. Are you milking her?
And making sure she isn't too tight there? And she doesn't have mastitis?


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## Griz

I have been doing B complex but only 2cc. I haven’t done calcium since the initial dose. Her teats are fine no matastis. My last doe had that so I know what to look for in that. Not milking her cause her bag never fully filled. I wonder if she knew before she delivered she wasn’t going to nurse them. I did start her on penicillin just as a precaution. I’m picking up more calcium tomorrow and will up the Bcomplex.


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## toth boer goats

Sounds good.

Try to get her up on her feet if at all possible or in a padded hoist contraption. If she has been down too long, her legs are probably asleep with no circulation. Massage them. keep us updated.


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## Griz

Just gave her more red cell and Bcomplex. She did stand with help on all four but when she went to take a step she fell. I’m gonna try and rig a sling in the barn tomorrow so that her legs just touch the ground but she can’t lay down and she can eat and drink. Her appetite is still good and she is drinking


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## toth boer goats

Don't leave her in the sling too long, she will need a break from it. Supervised for a 1/2 hour or a little more if you can. Never leave her there all day, no, or unsupervised in case something goes wrong. 

Short sessions as often as you can do, is good. 

Have her up there with her knees slightly bent and able to touch the ground, not just tip toeing, she may try to stand, which is what you want. That will strengthen her muscles getting her stronger on them.

Make sure she gets her food and water, so don't just leave her in the sling to long. 

Standing for a short time on her own is good. Make her get up periodically.

If the weather is nice enough, you can have her out side for a little while it may lift her spirits enough to want to graze, move around and get stronger that way. 

Good luck.


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## Griz

Well she’s standing with help getting up but once she’s she’s good. One leg she is not putting any weight on and it looks swollen in the joint. I’m still doing the calcium Bcomplex and red cell every three days. I was wondering if I could splint that one leg or both front legs to keep her from folding them under her. She’s still eating drinking pooping and peeing good. I don’t know what else to do.


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## toth boer goats

Swollen joint, is it her ankle area? Or knee?
Give her banamine if you have it for swelling and pain for a 4 days max.
The swelling too may be she had been laying too long and she has no circulation there. 

It may be pregnancy toxemia, which is good she is getting calcium drench and you are seeing improvement. 

What I do is give CMPK 2 x a day, for bad cases ,I give 60 cc, 2 x a day with CMPK drench. Once I see improvement I go to 30 cc's 2 x a day. 
When I see good improvement from that, I can try 1 x a day at 30 cc's this was when I was treating my boer doe. 

Before giving CMPK drench, I gave a drench of water/baking soda. 
Be sure she gets alfalfa hay and eating well.
If she ever goes backwards a bit, increase the calcium drench to where she is doing the best, she can. You may have to continue treatment until she kids and a short time after, depending on her. 
But if you are seeing improvement with how you are doing it continue what you are doing, or you can try to up the calcium for a day 2 x and see if that makes a difference.

With splinting, it is OK if you are able to take them off of her, so she can rest and lay down too. 
Having her up in a sling with her knees slightly bent to the ground, so if she wants to stand and put weigh on it she can, it will support her at the same time if she does fall. 

Test her ketone levels, go buy ketone strips at the drug store. Or try to give her 30 cc's karo 15 cc's molasses, add hot water, doesn't take much and stir well, then suck it up into a big syringe(no needle) and drench her slowly. 
Or see if she will drink karo/molasses warm water, on her own. For energy. It is best to know from testing her, if she needs it or not. 

Do you have Bo-se? 

How is her inner lower eyelid coloring? Is it still light or border line famancha chart?

It is so hard to say how to treat her, not seeing her, but a vets guidance would be good if at all possible. There is always a fine line with pregnant goats and treatments.


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## Griz

She already kidded. One was dead in sack and the other two didn’t make the night. It looks like she never bagged up. A week before she kissed she had bottle jaw so I had to worm her and gave her red cell and Bcomplex at the same time. She did really good but after she kidded is when she got like this. We’ve been doing calcium 2x day and Bcomplex 1x day. She has been up and walking. It looks more like the knee joint that’s swollen But that going down the more she walks. Once she’s up she does really good. It she is still weak. I think the babies (3) just zapped all her nutrients


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## toth boer goats

She seems to be improving, that is good.
Keep up the good work until she is back to her old self. Swelling going down is good too. 
It was most likely from being down for so long. 

Keep her up as long as possible.
You can allow her to graze and move around. It would be good for her. Just be sure she doesn't get slammed by another goat, if you allow her with the others. 

Make sure she eats alfalfa hay or the pellets so she can regulate calcium on her own again. 

She may have a touch of milk fever still going on. But strange no milk, but still showing issues. 
Has she had any selenium?


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## NyGoatMom

I know this thread is old but felt compelled to say after reading it in it's entirety, that the doe seems to have lice or mites. I'm wondering if it were bad enough it could have depleted the does daughter enough to kill her as well. Her coat looks wayyyy too rough to be just "itchy" from pregnancy.Just my thoughts...maybe missing something simple here.
Also, not clear on what she was dewormed with during pregnancy? And if there is a selenium protocol here?


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