# Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :-(



## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Macy is getting really really huge.
She was bred to a sundgau AM buck and was with him for 1 month.
The breeder said she is due around April 2nd-3rd.

I have been texting the breeder today.
Sent her pics a few days ago and she said that she looks the same as last year and it should be one big baby or a small set of twins.
After her saying that her babies are always "F'in HUGE" I am still unclear of what small means in her book.

Today was was the first time I felt them kick.
That is the coolest pre-kidding part, isn't it?  
It is really cool to feel them kick around like that.

The breeder said a few days ago I should be able to feel a head, but that wasn't until today. 
After I told her I could feel them she said "good. Now just wait till she starts bagging up n starts leakin", lol.

She has started an udder but of course no milk yet.
When she comes in milk she gets a huge udder and produces 1.5 gallons. I still cannot comprehend that.

As you can see in the pics she is really wide and really deep.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

Lookin good. Wide load :wink: I'll bet there's three in there, she looks like a pretty big doe and she's deep


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

That is what I thought, although the breeder still thinks no more than 2.
She has only seen the last pic though, so maybe if she saw how deep she was she would think different.
She is a very big girl. Weight tape (not sure how accurate that is) says 175 pounds, I think she is at least 200 with or without the babies. She is long, wide, deep, fat...the whole works, lol. I have a milk stand with a 3ft platform and she barely fits on it.
She was bred to a sundgau AM alpine buck so I can't wait to see what she gets.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

Love those kinda does :thumb: lol I had a Alpine/Nubian doe who was about that size and I really liked my big girl, but I had Lamanchas to, which were very sweet and cute, I just wish they were as big as the Alpine. Maybe there are some bigger Lamanchas out there though, I know the breeder I got mine from prefers smaller goats. Yepp I doubt my girl would have fit on our milk stand either lol She was a tank. Cool, I like sundgau :thumb: Alpines have such pretty colors. Thinking :kidred: :kidred:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

Yup, she is a tank and a keeper for sure. Some people look down at these tanks, as they lack that "natural dairy boney look", but I really love them.
I might be buying a relative to this goat that gets close to 2 gallons a day and is just as big.
I have looked at all 4 and they look just like this doe and are more experienced/more milk (4-7 years old).
Will go look at them again at some point.
I haven't seen many big lamanchas either. Although online they seem to describe lamancha a a bigger doe they usually seem "normal" in size. I have a lamancha who is "normal size" and gets a gallon of extra fatty milk with a very sweet personality.

While Macy has her pics up I wonder if someone could tell me something about her confo?
Or is it best to wait till after she kids? Is her rump good? Looks a little downhill but it is sloping a bit there.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

I prefer goats with some substance to, I don't like the super thin, dairy look. I like a nice long, tall, deep doe with a nice mammary :thumb: That's aweswome, you'll have to post some pics  Yeah that's my reason for debating which of the two I want to start back up with, I'm planning to go to a few shows and clinics this year and get a better idea of what we have around here. I don't know alot about conformation, I can usually tell if a doe's nice or not but I don't know all the correct terms yet... lol These pics are a little difficult to judge but she deff has plenty of length and depth of body, looks like she has a decent back and long neck, they'd look better if she had her head up I think, and she looks to have a very nice udder coming in, though pics closer to/after kidding would be better to evaluate that, I think she has nice rear leg angulation, as for negatives, she could possibly have a more pronounced brisket and stronger shoulders? Not sure about the rump. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still trying to learn the basics


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-- Spirit due Apr*

Wow, I must be getting better with waiting and this is only my second doe.
I actually waited a while instead of posting everyday,lol.

Anyways Macy is making some progress.
Her udder is filling out but has no fill yet, if you know what I mean.
Just over the last few days around her tail has been getting really mushy.
I can fit 3-4 fingers around the tail at the bottom with the ligs still present above that.
Her right lig is softer than the left and both aren't as hard as they used to be.
Some stretching going on with her vulva as well.

The lady isn't sure on the dates but I wonder if she would go sometime in the next week?
Although I am told she has always filled 1 week in advance and starts leaking.
The first date the breeder gave me was for april first..still 7 days away.

If she has multiples would it be likely she would go early?


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 1st-8th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Here are some pics of her today.
Idk if there is any change from the other ones or not. :shrug:

~Edit~ I found out from the breeder that they got the buck late in the first of November.
Right around the 4th-6th of November. So that gives me something more concrete to go on.
Macy would be due around the 3rd of April at the earliest, that is the first mark she would be at 150 days.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Jesse.... I see a difference, her udder is filling and I think at least twins! With some goats, the more they carry the earlier they'll deliver.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Also, as you can see, I just shaved her so her udder is way more visible.
Her teats are still flat though, does the udder fill before the teats?

Also I am very happy with this girl. She is super tame.
I gave her a complete birth cut and most of it was without the help of grain (she finished it in seconds).
She lets me lift each leg to trim the side of her udder and even lets me hold her udder for ease of trimming.
I guess that is from being trimmed every 2 months in the summer since she was a kid.
Such an amazing doe 

My other doe...thats a different story. she doesn't want me touching or trimming anywhere near her udder. :roll:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Most of the time, the udder will grow then usually 12 hours before delivery, the teats fill. I'm glad that she's a good natured doe...should be a breeze to milk when the time comes!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Macy is getting reallly close.
She is swollen this morning and has some cream colored discharge. Breeder said to expect her to go early and soon. also said not to worry as I will be at work most of the day and she is experienced. She is roughly 7 days early but could hold off 2 days..not sure. it is hrs or days


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

My girls looked like that just before they delivered last time - one had triplets, one had quads!

They are getting really big again, one is due any day, the other one has a month to go (i think)

Good luck with your babies


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

I love how the side where the babies are is so big. It is so obvious in the picture. Happy kidding! Keep us posted!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Happy kidding.... :hi5: :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Okay she was looking close but then stopped.
Her ligs softened some but then went back to hard pencils.
She didn't have any discharge again either.

Also I realized I miscalculated the dates again.
The latest she could have been bred was the 5th of November.
Which means her last possible day 150 would be Wednesday the 3rd.
She was in heat when they got the buck at the 4th or 5th of November and she never came in heat since.
So the breeder said anytime between now and wednesday.

She has no udder fill or signs of labor yet but it getting close.
On one side her ligs are way softer but the other one is rock solid.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

Not sure what to think now...
She shows some early labor sign but yet I never seen any contractions or even stretching.
She was "weird" a few hrs ago and was easily annoyed (more than usual) by Buddy (5 week old kid) and upset at everyone. She didn't want to go outside and if she did it was to catch a quick meal and go back inside.
I have been walking her to get grass elsewhere, it isn't growing as fast in the fence and they already ate it.
So instead of taking her time eating grass she stuffed it down really fast, quite franticly, then ran inside.
I was holding the leash and she dragged me all the back to the barn. She seemed easily stressed and scares easy so she is now in the kidding pen and all goats and humans are to leave her alone. She likes it better in there but like Molly she is stuffing her face.

She has also been breathing heavily and at times would huff and puff or sigh.
She has been rolling her head back at times too.
He ligs have softened a lot since a few hrs ago and seem to be a LOT lower than what they used to.

So I am confused...maybe I am just being too observant to the details and worry too much? Or maybe she is in early labor? Like I said I haven't seen any contractions. With my other doe I knew she was in early labor but whenever I went out to the barn I seemed to have already missed it. If I waited a long time she would have one. Maybe they are just coming far apart and I am not seeing them?

Mostly she just seems like a different goat and is more affectionate towards me. I guess time will tell.
She has no fill yet.

Oh and also I can feel the kids moving around a lot more. It was really hard for me to feel them before.
I can feel what I think to be a head towards the top/left of the "bump" and it moves towards her rump and I can't feel it and then it pops back again. It looks as if she has dropped more as well.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-5th and getting HUGE-Progress*

okay so im not crazy. Macy is in early labor. Was out there and she had 3 contractions. She has no fill and ligs are still there. Maybe a while yet. going to bed as I need to be up at 6:30. Update in the morning.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-In early Labor*

Hope she speeds things up for you!


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## ETgoatygirl (Mar 23, 2012)

*Macy, babies?*

How exciting! When did she have her baby(ies)? I hope she had them today (as it's my b-day I've always wanted a doe to give birth on my birthday! Anyone ever have this happen to them?


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Okay so maybe I am crazy. No kids yet.
This is all so confusing and frustrating for me :hair:

I thought I saw a few contractions when she was laying down.
Maybe a kid just kicked her hard and that was why she moaned and squirmed uncomfortably.
I saw the same thing with my other doe..what looked like weak contractions but maybe nothing.
Breeder said she is usually really quick. I didn't see any more contractions since that once, so I guess its all in my head. My sisters both said they saw her stretch out and moan but when I go in there and hawk eye her for 30 mins (while on my phone) I see nothing. She is using my sisters to toy with me I think, lol. Either that or my sisters didn't see what they thought, could be just a yawn type stretch.
Not sure whats going on. I do know she isn't serious quite yet.
Could be tomorrow. :shrug:

it would be cool if it was tonight but I doubt it.
I had a doe kid on my dads B-day a day 149. That was kinda neat.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Okay still nothing for Macy.
She has been stretching though.
I finally saw her do it.
It is the same as pictured on fiascofarm.com where the doe stretches to get kids into position.
She still has no udder and ligs are soft but still there.
She is 1-2 days late today, if the date is right. I am hoping that doesn't mean she could have a single.
Breeder said she looks like she could have one or 2 small ones.
So I am still waiting for some progression.

Oh and she is extra affectionate and lovey. She gets really loud when I walk in and when I am with her she calms down.
She is very demanding on wanting to be petting and rubbed on over. But still no action.
Breeder said she did that right before she kidded in the past. So by the sounds of it she is really close, just can't tell by udder and ligs.


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## Lamancha Lady (Dec 13, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Good luck I hope you have some babies soon  :thumbup:


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Well???


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Still nothing. She is trying to teach me patience...not working so far. Not even early labor yet. I was wrong earlier, she was just being weird and uncomfortable. Too much weight on her and doesnt stand as much anymore or is on her knees. I hope she goes soon..poor girl!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Well there is some progression.
She has dropped a little and sunken in a bit around her tail head. She still has her ligs but they went from being pencils to being soft again, this time softer than before. no fill yet. I am thinking maybe tomorrow.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Whohoo!!!!! :clap: :leap: :leap:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and getting HUGE-*

Even closer....I think.
She is more swollen and "flabby" in her pooch and it is opened when she is laying down.
My other doe was like that a little more than a day before so kinda hard to tell there.
Ligs are still soft but still there, little change there.

One thing I did notice is she used to ALWAYS get up for me when I walk over there(to check for treats and let me check her ligs).
As of a few minutes ago she would not get up, even after I went in with her.
So I think that is something pointing to her kidding soon :shrug: 
Her bag looks bigger but still with no fill.
Not sure if she is just not hungry anymore, she ate all her grain and some hay at 7am, now she isn't as interested in hay for whatever reason. She used to be a very aggressive eater and now seems to nibble.

I am all ready for kids though, whenever they come :roll: . I even cleaned the pen out again with some fresh bedding...thinking it may be tonight. I got lots of clean (soft)old shirts that I use for drying the kids off and paper towels.
Last kidding I realized I didn't hardly have enough for only ONE kid. This should be 2 kids so I will be ready.

Man I just can't wait for her to go into labor, so we can get some action. The wait is killing me. :laugh:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue *sigh**

She has been in pre-labor ....very normal for some Does to do this... for many hours.....sounds like... she is getting closer finally.... :thumb: :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue *sigh**

Has she been given any Calcium? You may want to give her some; especially if she is not geting up like normal.

Was April 2-3 day 145 or 150?


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue *sigh**

..Hmm, that is what I thought but the breeder said I must not have it right, like just jumping to conclusions.
Figured I was just seeing her uncomfortable and that confused me.
My last goat was 28 hrs in pre-labor and was doing all of the same things.
She said she is always very quick about it, not sure if she had been watching her as close as I am.
Was starting to think I was crazy for a moment there.
She has been breathing hard and showing many of the signs but still the breeder would ask "still has ligs, no udder?.. then not in pre-labor"...so that left me not knowing what to think.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue *sigh**

I have not given calcium. Don't have any on hand but can get some if needed.
She is still quite active but at times prefers to lay down, trying to say she is restless but not inactive.
I get her up a lot and I walk her out to the field 2X a day for her to eat grass. She usually runs back so gets enough exercise. a good 200-300 ft.
Went back out there and she was back at eating hay again.
It is an alfalfa hay so has some calcium in it.
April 2-3 is supposed to be day 150.
Edit- When I said she didn't get up for me like she used to she was just resting I think.
I tugged on her collar and she got up right away..
I get her up about every 1-2 hrs during the day to check ligs.
Sometimes she is already up and eating hay like she was a few mins ago.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

I was just texting the breeder.
She said it is because I have been watching. lol
She just checks ligs and goes by when they have closer/stronger contractions with the tail curling, that is when for this doe kids are only a few hours away. Not watching for every pre-labor sign.
But I am probably the only one who can't just go out to check ligs.
I stay with her for 10-20 mins and pet her while noticing/checking for any changes.
Am I weird? Besides I spend time with my goats even if they are not due to kid any day now.
lol I know my family thinks I'm weird. But it helps when I am feeling down (I am posting on my past thread about that).

With the info I provided to the breeder she, like me, is betting she will kid tonight.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Nothing wrong with just being with your goats...I enjoy sitting with mine after all the neccesary things are out of the way. I think it's the best way to observe any changes in them, good or bad and can help with recovery due to quick action....however, the watching for any sign of impending birth can definately drive you to an uncontrollable persistance of constantly checking and watching!

Hope she delivers soon!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

:greengrin: :thumb: :clap: :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

The breeder said she bets she goes tonight, as I already said.
I sent a text back saying:
"you want to place bets?
How about if she kids tonight you get my doeling and if she kids tomorrow I get your buckling :-D lol jk", as my bet is for the morning.

She replied "Ok....but only if she kids tonight  "

lol of course just joking.
It is either going to be a quick last minute fill or she will kid tomorrow. Hoping my friend is right that she kids tonight.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Go Pink-go pink-GO PINK!!!!!!! :kidred: :kidred: :kidred: :kidred: :kidred: :dance: :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Thanks.
I forgot to say I plan to keep a doeling, if she is an improvement on Macy. So yes, GO PINK!!


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Thinking pinkpinkpink for you!!! :kidred: :kidred: :kidred:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Okay now I am getting worried.
I saw her start stretching yesterday and my siblings (who tend to see more than me) saw her stretch the end of Tuesday.
So thats going on 3 days in pre-labor.
How long can they go in pre-labor. This girl is not being quick at all.
Contractions seem to be getting stronger but she isn't curling her tail.
Ligs are still there and no udder.

The breeder said to wait it out and she will soften/kid soon.
She doesn't look to kid anytime soon.
..Other than her pooch.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Some of mine have their pooch look like that for a while days before kidding. The only real good pre-indicator is the ligs. They can stretch for days. If she is pushing or contracting frequently then those are eminent signs but have yet to have that happen before ligs are gone. When you say she has contractions... what are they like? Usually I only see those the last day or maybe two and very random until they start labor. 
Oh and you are not weird for hanging out with her or watching. I love the time I get to spend with my goats every day the more the better!!!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Well it has just been stretching until today.

She is usually laying down and will shift forward(and move her belly upwards) elevating her rump and grunt or groan/moan.
Now as of a few minutes ago she was doing the same thing only worse.
She would sometimes stretch out one leg and grunt and then back to normal and she is wagging her tail for whatever reason.
They are kinda random and at times more frequent. A few times were enough to stand her up.
When she is standing up it seems as she stretches her back legs and moves her tail straight up and then starts wagging her tail, maybe thats one also..
My other doe did the same thing and had her ligs and then at 3-5am she lost them and started arching her tail, it wasn't till 7pm that she kidded.

I think she may have a ways to go, I will just check on her a few times during the night.
She did seem to be progressing really good when I was out there.
Ligs softening and even more sunken in but not gone.
Her pooch has gotten even more swollen and open since that pic.
When I left I think she might have started to fill, will check on her in an hr or two to verify that.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

:shocked: She is REALLY MAKING US WAIT!!!!! Let's hope that she doesn't go like six day overdue like one of mine did. :roll:

:hair: :help: :GAAH:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

Yes she is. 
She will probably be like "abort mission- cant hold em in any longer". Of course she is seeing how long she can go just to drive me sane...or is it insane.
Either way the wait is killing me.

She STILL doesnt look to kid anytime soon. She has her ligs and no fill in her teats.
So who knows. Maybe tonight or tomorrow morning.

With forgetting about the 2 days she has been stretching she has only been in pre-labor for about 20 hrs. Could be as late as 36 hrs from what I hear.

She does seem deeper lately and today I cant feel or see the kids kick..weird. My other doe the kid was kicking right before she went into active labor.

Maybe she will kid sometime after 12am. I think 7 to be a lucky number.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-2-3 days overdue, pre-la*

I am a little worried being as it is going to be 28 degrees tonight with wind. Last time I moved the doe into the milk parlor and heated it witth a heat lamp just in case.
This girl is too big for that room so I am will just keep checking on her during the night and be there when the kids come.
I myself have to move into the house for the night as it is getting too cold in my apartment.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

ray: I'm praying she's okay...... ray: ray:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

She is okay, just taking long.
She is otherwise doing really good and is remaining strong.

She has dropped even more. It appears she has lost a lot of weight around her hips as she is carrying lower.
It is harder to feel the kids anymore...I hear that is one thing that point to her kidding within 12 hrs.
However my last doe I could feel her kid prior to active labor.
She seems extra affectionate at times. She gave me kisses and was rubbing against me which she never did before.
She does a lot of "staring off into space" and breaths heavy during that time.

BUT still has her ligs and no udder. So hard to say.
It is still looking to be at least 12-16 more hours unless she changes around soon.
Her ligs are still hard, actually one seems softer.

It would seem as if she would never kid, doesn't it?
Shes gotta pop at some point, she is HUGE. Even in the past week she has gotten bigger.
I just don't understand why it never has gone quick for me (at least it has gone safe for my last doe).
Man would I love a doe that could pop em out in 5-9 hrs like I hear a lot.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

:GAAH: :hair: :GAAH:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

Well I am going to bed early.
This way with checking on her a few times during the night I wouldnt loose as much sleep.
It is really cold out and even though she doesnt look to kid soon I want to be on the safe side.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

3am still nothing....Hoping she goes today somehow, she is 4-5 days overdue. grr


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

Oh how frustrating! I hope she has some really good surprises in there for you!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-3-4 days overdue, pre-la*

She better have some good surprises in there for me....aka a gorgeous doeling.
The girl must be sooo nice that Macy doesn't even want to share :roll:

Anyways...I have reached a conclusion (however saddening it may be)-
Macy isn't pregnant afterall. She just bulked up on my quality alfalfa/timothy hay and that is why she was so big.
It is quite disappointing. Just check the pics out if you don't believe me :ROFL: :laugh:


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

I'll do baby watch with you. My Mink is in the same place, making me wait and wait and wait. The calendar says she isn't due until the 23rd, her behavior and physiology say otherwise. Plus she looks like she has toxemia on top of it all and i have to encourage/force her to eat and drink. I wish she would deliver to get this all over with. Maybe they are both holding out for Easter babies?


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Hey dont feel bad about about obsessing over your doe. You are a very normal goat fanatic! :ROFL: iIcan totally relate. I really wanted my 2 to go over the weekend so I dont have to miss school.but they are obviously on their own time schedule. I really want to be there to help So I keep checking and checking and watching.
:laugh: Any woman who has gone past her own due date knows how nerve racking waiting can be! Hang in there. Good luck. Best wishes and Prayers. ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

:laugh:

ray: :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Okay, maybe something to report.

How long before kidding do they get "posty?
I know for my last doe it was somewhere around 6 hrs but I can't remember.
Her legs are reallly posty and she walks stiff legged, she seems to drag her back feet.

She still has no fill. Her ligs are on the road to softening again.
Just in the last hour or so they have softened some, but they are still there.
Her pooch is extra stretched and flabby/swollen. Don't have the greatest mental picture but to me it looks like what Molly's was shortly before she kidded...or close to it.

Also wondering if I should thaw out some colostrum just in case?
I don't see why she wouldn't come in milk but so far isn't progressing that way.

I am worried, to say the least. Macy on the other hand doesn't seem to be worried one bit.
I never heard of a goat going this long in pre-labor and it would seem as she should have had the kids by now.

Hurry it up Macy, you're scaring me!!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Actually I described that wrong.
Her pooch is not flabby at all.
It is a lot longer and stretched but not so much flabby, if you know what I mean.

Also she is curling her tail up with contractions instead of down.
I guess she can't really arch her tail when she still has ligs.
She curls her tail so the tip almost touches her tail head area, stretches (different stretch-legs even more posty) and groans.

Maybe I might get my doeling?
I hear female kids take longer to "send the message" and multiples are usually quicker.
The breeder did say it was to be one big kid or 2 tiny ones.
She had twins as a FF and a huge boy after that, this is her 3rd kidding.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Sounds like definate changes as far as progress goes Jesse...I've noticed with mine that usually once they go posty, their udders are full and they deliver within 12 hours.

I wouldn't worry about her not filling, she certainly has enough udder built to have colostrum. I hope you get your Macy doeling soon!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

:stars: FINALLY!!!!!! :stars:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Yeah, that is what I thought.
It was nothing,nothing, nothing for a long time till now.
If going strictly by 12 hrs (which we are talking about a goat so who knows) she has 10 hrs left.
I can't wait. Kids ..or kid will be here soon.  I am sure the wait will be worth it.
Macy's full sister (different herd-not as nice as macy) had a GORGEOUS doeling, so I am hoping I get the same or better from Macy.

Okay then, I won't worry about her not having milk.
She is likely going to start filling soon anyways.
I tried to look it up to know what its called but didn't find anything...
The veins on her belly (or whatever) that connect to her udder are enlarged, so that tells me she is making milk.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Oh yes!!! I get so thrilled when I can see as well as feel the thickness of those milk veins! You just might get babies before Easter!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Hmm. Progression and then less progression.
I would say nearly impossible for kids before easter.
I am not much for easter so it doesn't matter either way.

Legs still look posty. Maybe her milk veins aren't as big as what they are supposed to be or she isn't actually making milk yet.
Weird, her udder is about the same size and no fill in the teats.
Still has her ligs and everything.

Maybe I need to not look at the ligs and udder..maybe that will fill in at the last minute?..kinda doubt it
Her pooch looks sunken in so as the pin bones show a tiny bit, same as it was for my last doe before she kidded.
Its hard to describe. Also my sister said she heard/saw her soft talking a couple hours ago.

So with soft talk, pooch, post legged it says soon.
With udder, ligs..it says otherwise.

This will be another long night.
I will just get up at 3 like usual and hourly if she is progressing.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

I've only kidded out three does so far, but all of mine quit eating before they kidded. Two skipped the night meal and they kidded before the moring meal. One skipped breakfast and kidded about the night meal.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

Mine quit eating a week ago :roll:

Actually she started eating again tonight, maybe she is working the opposite of normal does


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-4-5 days overdue, pre-la*

My only doe to kid for me so far never quit eating grain.
She ate her morning meal at 7 am and kidded at 7pm, she ate her evening meal as well.
I am thinking Macy will be the same way. She has never missed a meal yet and even as pregnant as she is about breaks the door down when I am getting her feed.

Anyways I don't even think she could kid today. Or at least its not looking that way.
Back to no progression. She still acts like my other doe a day before she kidded.

I am starting to think the date might be wrong? It has to be...
She was after all with a buck for 30 days but the lady said she didnt come in heat afterwards.
This has been really long for her. I wish she would just go into active labor and pop those kids out, at least she could start breathing normally afterwards. Poor girl! This has been days.

Oh well I am going back to bed. This girl is content to make me wait a while longer yet.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Back to no progression.
Will she ever kid?
Like I said she doesn't look to kid anytime soon.
Come to think of it she looks a day out yet, but who knows.

She is now 5-6 days overdue if the date is right.
I am thinking it has to be right because the previous owner said she didnt short cycle. If she did short cycle she would be due around the 10th.
I just dont think she could be early. I am hoping she kids today, not sure whats going to happen if she doesn't.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

The only thing new is her ligs are really low and pliable.
They could go away soon my guess.
With my last doe her ligs were like that at 12 and then at 3 they were gone.
Still could be a long time till she kids. Not really a whole lot else to report.
Oh and her tail goes up higher than it used to, almost level with her tail head/topline, except with her ligs still there it curves instead of being straight.

Again my guess is sometime tomorrow morning. Who knows because every time I made that guess the next morning she was the same as the day before. She is either going to kid really late or the date is wrong.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Okay progress again  :applaud: 
Or at least it looks like progress.

For one she is having some harder contractions than before, every 3-5 mins or so.
At each one she puts her head in my lap for me to comfort her..poor girl, that is why I'm there when I can be.She really enjoys my company, even my sisters don't compare, she wants me.
If she hears me she will sometimes call to me.

Her udder is filling more. It filled a tiny bit yesterday and then stopped, now its filling again.
Udder likely has a ways to go if it going to look anything like the pics from last year.
Ligs however are still there.

So what is your bet?
I am betting tomorrow morning.
What do you think :shrug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

She's making progress on her terms.... and doing it just to keep you worrying and tired!

If she was with the buck for 30 days, she could have been bred shortly before she was removed from the pen...which may mean that she's not overdue but right on time.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Oh Jesse!I feel your pain! My 2 does have disappearing/reappearing ligs! Posty? :? Not Posty? put in kidding stall...taken out of the kidding stall! Driving me crazy! :GAAH: I want them to kid before my work week! Patience? Whats that? :shrug: 
:hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Yeah thats the thing.
I KNOW her legs were posty and now not so posty.
Ligs were low and soft earlier and now they are hard again.

I also think the date must be wrong.
Actually not 30 days, only from nov 4th or 5th to the end of november.
I bought them on dec 9th and the buck had been gone a while before that.
That gives dates between April 2nd and april 28th. My other doe is likely due at the latest date.
If she was in heat when the buck was brought it might have been too late in the cycle and she caught at a short cycle.
If it was 21 days later that would have been too late. Macy was the only one the breeder knew to be bred because she missed her next heat. So that leaves the 2nd and the 10th. I can't really see it being any other date.

If she is due on the 10th why in the world does she have to start all this 6 days ago? :scratch: 
Maybe she planned this: an evil goat's scheme against its owner :laugh: 
But it is true, this is getting so annoying, frustrating, and tiring.
I HATE not having dates. People say "all in her time"...but I gotta sleep too right?
No, actually think its the kids fault. Their not sending their message quick enough. Either that or Macy wasn't getting the kids messages and they had to resend :laugh: 
Hence that is why the ligs soften (message received) and then harden (message not understood, try again later)

They say Patients is a...darn what was it again... Venture? :shades:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Okay heres something more...

Her left lig is now rock solid hard, harder than its been in a while.
The right lig is a lot softer and lower. Totally weird.

Her udder is still filling and has gotten bigger since that pic although none in the teats yet.
Also she just started discharging. It is just a small amount of cream colored discharge, just enough for the vulva to be wet inside and out, none dripping. I know they can discharge days or weeks before kidding...wonder if it could also mean she could kid soon?
She seems to be progressing if I don't look at her ligs and udder.
Contractions are getting harder and when she is standing up she curls her tail up and squats a little bit and groans, she is clearly in a lot more pain. She just has me so confused...


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

WELL. I guess we're on goat time. A rare opportunity to let go of control. Learn acceptance. Let go. Find peace. Happy Easter. ray: :ZZZ: :wink:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

How long is it from when they start discharging?
The breeder said most her does kid 6 hrs later from when they have discharge.
Also she said that she could have a later date and therefore might not be overdue at all. Good to know.
I was right though. Her later date would be between the 9th and the 12th. 
So she is right on tract for that due date.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

Still nothing this morning.
If the date is right she is reallly late.

I read it could be not enough calcium that she hasnt gone into labor already. I will try that.
I am thinking if she doesnt kid soon I might need a vet out? She was never like this in the past, I fear something could be wrong.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*



Willow said:


> WELL. I guess we're on goat time. A rare opportunity to let go of control. Learn acceptance. Let go. Find peace. Happy Easter. ray: :ZZZ: :wink:


I have also come to that realization. I stopped sleeping in the barn (it's darn cold this week!) I stopped sleeping by the baby monitor (on the couch) and returned to my own bed. I stopped geting up every hour or so to check. When it happens it happens. She's an experienced mom and has her sister to help clean babies if necessary. I was not functioning well, and that helps no one.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*

That makes three of us. ;-)

For my first doe I started doing the hourly thing but gave up on that.
With this doe I know there wouldn't be any problems kidding as she has kidded twice without problems.
I have only been checking at 3am during the night, just to take notes on how she is progressing.
Otherwise I love my bed and don't do good in the cold.
The only thing I worry about is it being 25 at night with high winds like it has been.
The barn isn't sealed up completely so the kids would need to be dried off.
Last kidding the kid was shivering and we spent a good 1/2 hr drying him off and then put him under a heat lamp(after his first meal).After they are dry they do okay.

Not sure what you mean by "has her sister to help clean babies if necessary".
If you are talking about me(being a he) and my doe, she is experienced but I don't have my sister handy unless during the day.

Back to Macy...
I think she needed calcium, hence that was why she has been contracting (mild) for 5 days without going into active labor. I heard calcium can be the cause for it not progressing into active labor like it should have.
I gave her calcium by way of 2 calcium capsules for humans yesterday morning.
Could be a coincidence but ever since she has been making progress.
Contractions changed from being mild to strong.
They are sometimes frequent and other times really strong so that she rolls on her side and then dashes to her feet and farther apart, still random. As I said earlier she started discharging yesterday and it has been off and on since.
She is up and down and pawing more than ever.
I think she will hit active labor sometime today the way she is rapidly progressing, unless she stops progressing again.

Her ligs are really soft and low (again) but not gone. They seem to be getting softer quicker so that could change soon.. Her udder is full but not fully strutted yet.

Hoping I can be home when she kids, that is always exciting.
However I want to visit my mom, who is at the hospital, later in the evening.
She should do fine without me though, not worried anymore. She probably isn't that close though.


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Any new progress? I hope you came home today to some beautiful babies and your torturous wait is over.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

There is some progress, but no kids yet.
I did find she needed calcium.
Still eating but with her contracting for more than 4 days I figured she needed calcium.
Her contractions were stalling at times..or so it would seem. This is so unlike her. I am thinking she has more weight in kids this year and not enough calcium..or things would have progressed better. So I gave her some and I am watching to see how its working. There has been discharge off and on all day. ligs are going away. udder filling more and more. pooch is the longest I have seen it yet.
She is REALLY deep and hollow all around her hip area. pics to come

Edit: Oh and the capsules didnt do much. it helped for a little bit but the drench should work better. I gave her the drench. A friend and her vet recommended it.


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## mtmom75 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Wow, poor Macy looks like her belly is about to start dragging the ground! I hope she has some babies for you soon.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Poor thing... she looks close. Happy kidding.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Wow she is so big....happy kidding..... :thumb:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Macy is getting a lot closer. She is having frequent contractions and more of a moaning cry.
Making a lot more progress since a couple hrs agao. I think she needed that calcium, it is helping.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy due in April and on day 156/157 or 149~ Pre-Labor*

Well Macy has been up and down.
She was having contractions strong and closer together then they turned weak. I gave her more calcium around 3 and has been having really strong ones since. She is looking like she could kid sometime today, However she still has her ligs.
I will be giving her calcium every 2-4 hrs as needed. I need to fight for her and avoid a vet bill. The poor girl has been way to long in pre-labor. I aslo havent seen her eat hay all morning,hoping that is because she has been chewing cud all the time and that she still has an appetite.

Also the contractions are quite frequent. Some every 10 sec and others 2 min, very random but all strong. At times she would be down,up, and then back down in the same contraction.
If she continues to progress like this when do you think she will hit active labor?


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy due April 2nd-3rd and HUGE-5-6 days overdue, pre-la*



jesse-goats said:


> Not sure what you mean by "has her sister to help clean babies if necessary".


Sorry, i meant Mink's sister, Chara.

Mink helped her both her daughters (FFs) clean up their kids b/c i wasn't there (and then tried to claim them for her own - or at least tried to get them to nurse from her, and i had to kick 'Grandma' out of the pen and let the new moms bond to their babies. I just worry about Mink b/c last time she had one baby that we had half dried off, and the next two came right after each other - like maybe 20 seconds between deliveries and i thought if i wasn't there, that at least one might not make it b/c she wouldn't have been able to clean up their faces so they could breathe.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

So how's Macy doing??? :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Good and not so good...
She acts fine and not distressed but it not good that she is going so long.
She just has not been progressing. Yesterday I checked her and she isn't dilated.
I did see a small amount of discharge yesterday (or I should say this morning at 12).
It was clear and collected at the tip of her pooch. Not much only a 3/8 inch bead of it.
I was just about dancing when I saw that...maybe she is progressing again and will do this on her own.
This morning nothing.

I planned to get up every hour so I could stay on top of her labor.
I have been giving her calcium. If I don't she stalls out and they are weak and farther apart.
Well with not sleeping AT ALL the last 2 nights I accidentally slept through the 3-4 alarms I set.
Really beating myself up on that. Went out this morning and she is stalled again.
Contractions were every 5-8 min instead of seconds or 1-2 mins. At least most of them were still kinda strong, not enough to break water though.

Really worried about her. I wish she would kick butt and get them out before I get a vet out this afternoon...not likely.
Her ligs did start softening last night and all round the tail sunken in even more.
I am giving her more calcium again this morning and hope that gets her going again.

The breeder is coming out around 1 to help assess the problem.
If she can't do anything we will get a vet out.
This has been too long and something must be wrong.
Kids are kickin to get out and she isn't making enough progress.

Today will be a very expensive day no doubt.
My first vet bill if she doesn't kid soon.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I'm SOO sorry, Jesse. :hug: :grouphug:


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Oh...yes......In my opinion, you should just leave her be. She's sounding like she's getting close, and you might accidentally be stressing her out. Have you 'gone in' yet? Was she dilated?


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I know it is stressful for her.
I myself wasn't sure she even needed it.
I hate hate hate giving it to her because of the stress.
So many opinions about that.
3 people said not to and 2 said to give it because she needs it.
I told one person who said she needed that I wasn't going to do it because it was stressing her out and she said it would be on my own head...so I didn't want to take any chances.
I have always thought the contractions are irregular anyways until a couple hrs pre-kidding so seemed normal.
Although there were times they would be frequent and then 5-10 mins.
So many different opinions that left me not knowing what to think. 
I think I will just not do it anymore. I don't want to stress her.

Went in yesterday and she is not dilated.
I wonder if its okay to go in again...re-entry probably isn't good?
I could check again to see how dilated she is.

She is looking like she is getting close..I just was worried that something could have been wrong that was preventing her from going into active labor or from dilating. Maybe a kid positioned sideways. She should have already kidded.
Hoping this go normally and without a vet bill.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*



jesse-goats said:


> Went in yesterday and she is not dilated.
> I wonder if its okay to go in again...re-entry probably isn't good?


Well, in this case, I think that you might want to 'go in' again.

You and Macy are in my prayers, Jesse.... ray: ray:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Still not dilated. Can only get one finger in. Breeder will be here in a couple hrs. As far as contractions go she is acting nothing like my last doe...like they are still weak. Hopefully the vet can lute her..


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Is there more than one thread on her/ I am confused I thought I had posted a few times but dont see anything.

I really feel if she has been having contractions for days you need to get her some help. Hopefully that other breeder gets there soon and can see what is going on. If she is contracting but the kid is in the wrong position like back to the cervix the cervix may not dilate and labor can't progress without the cervix dilating. ray:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Yes, I have 2 threads on her, sorry.
Wasn't getting too many hits on this one.

The breeder didnt come out yet but had me send a lot of pics.
She said she looks 1-2 days off yet. However that is going by udder and pooch(pooch isn't puffy enough), also with her ligs being somewhat hard.
She said she likely took at the second date. Which means today or yesterday is her due date. But who knows.
I asked then why contracting for so long?...She said idk do goats get braxten hicks(however you spell it)?
Now that just sounds weird. She also said me giving her calcium was messing things up.
They were weak and only nearing strong when I gave calcium. Today I didn't give calcium and they are weak.
Weird... I just don't agree with her though. More than 2 days contracting seems like too much.

How can you tell the kids position if you cant get in there?

I know where I can get lute...That dilates the cervix as well right?
A farmer nearby can give me a single shot of it. Wiser for vet check first though, my guess.

The breeder said to wait. She is doing really well but contractions are no longer frequent and they are weak.
I am probably going to have the vet come out, something seems wrong. 
Might be at a loss with the breeder.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Sorry to say and please this is only my opinion but the breeder sounds like she donsnt know all that much about kidding. I dont want to sound harsh; sorry.

Calcium will not mess things up. Many does get low calcium especially in late pregnancy and suplimenting calcium is good for them not messing things up. If you have say goats prefer calcium drench I think the dose is 10cc calcium and that can be given a few times a day.

Ligs generally are the best indicator of labor BUT in this case with a doe that has been contracting for days there is something up. I have never had one have any sort of frequent contractions until the last day when she kids. 
I suppose any animal could get braxton hicks but they would be random and are generally earlier on in pregnancy. Near the due date any contractions are contractions not braxton hicks.

The pooch pic I saw in one of your posts she looked very open and ready. Some udders dont fill until after kidding or if there is a side issue may not fill at all.

You cant tell kid position unless you can get in or have a ultrasound.

**The problem with just waiting is that if she has past active labor and because of kid position she never dilated she may NEED help getting those kids out. If left alone and labor has past the kids will die inside her and then she will begin infection if they are not removed. I hope that this is not what is going on. I am only going off what I have read that you are seeing and you said a few days ago that there had been 4 days of contractions, getting up and down, restlessness, pawing ground all these things to me say active labor and with no progression I feel the need to do something.

If you have not called the vet I would and at least talk to them and describe what is going on.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I have goats prefer and I was told to give either a full dose at 1 oz or half of that every 4 hrs when needed.

How do I know for sure that she has missed active labor.
Being that she had frequent and now not?
her water never broke. Contractions have varied from 20 seconds apart to 5 minutes apart. Last night it averaged 2-3 mins apart. Today more like 5-10.

I will call the vet. I don't want to take any chances.
Lute would be used to dilate her?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Either way with the goats prefer is fine. I just wish they liked the taste of it. :roll:

Water breaking is in part dependent on kids position so hopefully in this case the water has not broken and even if she did pass active labor the kids are still safely in the sacs.

As frequent as those were I am pretty sure that was her trying to labor (active labor)

I do think calling the vet would be good especially if they were that close together. 
Lute can take up to 48 hours to do its job so the vet may go a different route.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I'm sorry I haven't been able to follow the post, haven't had much time on the forum in the last week.
Is her udder strutted? Is her back legs posty? Do you have updated pictures you could share on here?
I just wonder if she is just really REALLY uncomfortable and isn't ready to have them just yet?
We have a doe that is on her third pregnancy, and she gets really uncomfortable in the last weeks. You'd seriously think she was in labor well before her due date. She lays down, stretches, grunts, groans, yawns, and closer to the due date it's really irritating trying to guess when she'll finally go. Oh, and the first kidding with us she went 5 days over her due date, and second time she went 7 days over.

We had a doe kid last spring that we really thought was in labor on Fri afternoon. By Sunday night I was ready to actually get a little sleep, so went to bed at midnight. Checked on her at 6am and she had kidded twins, they were mostly dry and just fine. Sunday night she was more quiet, otherwise I'd have been checking on her regularly...LOL

Hopefully that is all that is going on with your doe, if she was bred on the later date, then hopefully she's just not ready yet and may be going over her due date a few days or so. IMO if she still has ligs, that is a big sign to me that she's not ready yet. Even a doe we had abort 4months pregnant had lost her ligs. 
We've had a doe who didn't lose her ligs until right before she kidded.


----------



## mtmom75 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I hope everything is okay with Macy.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Udder is not strutted and lacks fill in the teats. I wonder if the teats will fill if she doesn't kid normally...as in C-section or kids being pulled...or however they would do it.
Legs are posty and have been for a while.

Weird thing is she isn't acting in labor anymore. I do find her laying down some but only to chew cud.
That must be bad. Stills breaths a little rough but isn't getting up and down and pawing like she was.
She has NEVER looked ready to kid. How can a goat kid with rock solid ligs?
They have only begun to soften today. Udder is still filling. Kids are still kicking.

I think those were definite contractions and not her being restless.
She would usually lay down for each one or for a bunch of them.

Breeder is still saying to wait. With the signs she was showing today(only early morning) and yesterday it would be soon.
I just don't get why she is stalling like this. A need for calcium again? Forget about that, thats a dead end.

I just found my vets number (need to get that in my phone) and will call them now.
I want to make an articulate list of what I need to say and everything that she showed. All info provided.
I am very phone shy, so maybe that will help. Trying to have the answers to the vets Q's before they are asked.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

I could be very very wrong, I am not a pro, but to me she just doesn't sound ready. I'd definitely call the vet if you think something is wrong and have them check her, maybe give her lute? But if her ligs are just now starting to soften to me again, I'd make a c-section last resort unless something is truly wrong. The one doe I mentioned that you seriously would think is in labor a few weeks before she is due really had me worried, she is also the type that has no discharge either. In fact I never go by discharge anymore lol
I go by ligs and udder, because that has been the true sign for my girls. But they are all different. Do what you feel is the best thing to do for your doe, but IMO unless the vet thinks something is seriously wrong don't let c-section be the way of it. It's costly and very painful <as a person I've had 3 and wish I had been able to have my kids naturally!>.

Have you posted any pics on here?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Jesse... You had said that you aren't positive about the due date and that she's likely on 150 now and not overdue, you have done what you should have by checking her for dilation. 
Not every doe is the same BUT most will show that they are ready by way of ligaments and udder fill, if her udder has been slowly filling....she's making progress. Ligaments come and go during the week before delivery.
The way she was laying then rolling onto her side is some does way of getting kids in position... mine will sit like dogs a few days before to help position kids.
Macy is _your _doe and because we here at TGS do not know her nor can we see her actions, we can only speculate as to what is going on with your description of her behavior. I've had enough deliveries the last 9 years with my own does and knew each one well enough to know when theres been something wrong and with each one who needed assistance, there was never any question as to wether or not they were in true labor.
You need to do what you are comfortable doing..if she's just not ready, which I don't think she is...or if you really think theres a problem, don't hesitate to call a vet.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

She is making progress.
Just this morning there was some fill in her udder, but not completely full.
Now I would say its full and tight. Still none let down yet but it is full.
Ligs are softening slowly but surely, really low again and semi-pliable.

Also what I forgot to say...she is REALLY uncomfortable and restless..with being so big.

Can't understand why she was contracting for so long, sounds bad, but now that she is making progress and her body taking on the physical changes that need to take place pre-kidding I think I will wait and see.
She is still contracting and making progress. 
If she progresses into active labor and needs help I know who to call, I have 4 people who I can call to help with that.
A couple friends have agreed to be on call. Then I also have the vet.
I don't really think there is a real problem but at this point it is hard to rule that out.

Some may not agree with my decision. It is what feels right for right now.
If tomorrow still nothing I will get a vet out.
We are praying as a family for this girl, that the kids be correctly positioned and all goes smoothly . I believe our prayers will be answered. Nothing is ever too small for him, not even a goat.
No need to be worried anymore.


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## rkl4570 (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Hopefully she'll have them soon and with no complications!


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Good luck. It is your decision to make. We will not judge or criticize it because we aren't there. You know her best and are the one there as things change. I'm thinking of her, you, your family, and (if necessary) your vet... :hug: 
M.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Jesse...as was mentioned, she is your doe and only you would know if she truly needs more interferance, there is never any judgement passed on the descisions we make for our own.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

She's lookin good! Really sunken at tail head and nice full udder! ray: :hi5:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Yes only you know what is going on and what may be best for her. I have never had one start labor without loosing their ligs either. 
If you can feel the kids move that is a wonderful sign. 
Maybe she is just a drama queen and overexagurates her normal stretching to get kids in position.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

No judgement here either  I do remember how it was being new to kidding, and I still get anxious every time, worrying if everything is okay, etc. Hopefully she'll go in a day or two, if her ligs are starting to loosen that is a great sign. Definitely do what you feel is right, I agree you know her more than anyone else.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy on day 149-158~ Pre-Labor- gettting closer*

Thanks guys....or in this case ladies 

Wow, just when I thought her udder was full it gets fuller. Teats should fill soon.
Really big. I am loving her udder. Best udder in my herd so far.
Her ligs are low and pliable/soft. My sister said: "wow her ligs are gone"...I told her they were still there and she needed to look harder. But I know they are still there.
Just another guess but I am really thinking she will go tomorrow.

Also my last doe Molly went into pre-labor with pre-labor contractions for 14 hrs. After that her ligs went away and it was the real deal, tail curling down contractions for the next 16 hrs. I think Macy studied up on Molly's theory and made it into an evil scheme of some sort.

Boy do those kids ever kick! From the rear I see her udder,right side, and left side moving with their kicks.
Then they try to get at the udder from the inside, lol. So I don't feel the kid moving I SEE the kids moving.
They are nearly impossible to feel on the right side as they have moved down. I can feel them at times though.

So I *think* Macy will FINALLY be ready to loose her "saddle bags" ( as my friend calls them) soon. Maybe tomorrow.
When my last doe was that sunken at the tail(when I went to bed) she lost her ligs at 5am(when I got up) and kidded 7pm.
Not every doe the same though.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

One of the things that I do have happen with my does is that when they are really ready to go...those udders literally fill right before my eyes! No kidding either...first thing I do when I notice different changes is to feel their udder, if they kick me away or move away from me, I know they'll be a few hours, if they squat and let me touch them...I know to stick close because those kids will be arriving soon. I've already saw an udder look fuller than that morning, got her comfy in a kid stall, went back to the house to fill water buckets and back to the barn 15 minutes later to see that udder even bigger and mama ready to push out the first.

If her udder is filling fast now...I bet that when you get up to check on her as you have been she'll likely be ready to show you her babies.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

Yes, it was around 7 after I fed everyone that I went to buy coal and checked before leaving.
When I got back, unloaded and everything, I went back out there around 8:30 and it was a lot bigger.

I did notice that the last time. My doe Molly HATES her udder being touched and a few hrs before kidding she appreciated an udder rub.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

Macys ligs are completely GONE.
Today is the day.
Wanna know what? That udder is way bigger. Still seems like no teat fill though. Her pooch is taller and puffy, even more open looking. Tail is off to the right most times.
Time to put down fresh bedding.
All this waiting will finally be over.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

That's great Jesse! I was just going to post and ask how she was this morning. Sounds like everything is going to be just fine, and I pray she has a smooth kidding for you  
Her teats may not fill until she is in active labor, or sometimes I've seen the udder fill, but not the teats until they deliver. 
It's amazing how much the udder grows, you think they are going to explode!
Hopefully she goes soon and doesn't keep you waiting all day, but it'll be a fun wait now that you know things have really started to progress


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

:thumb: Cant wait to hear about the cute kids!


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

I hope it all goes smoothly for you both!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- maybe tomor*

Just as I thought.
My goats never miss a meal or lack appetite. My last doe to kid ate her grain a couple hrs pre-kidding. Macy ate her breakfast this morning as always.

I agree her teats could fill closer to the end.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

How exciting. Happy kidding.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Macy is really close. talking to me and kids. teats are filling. Lets me touch her udder. doesnt want me to leave. looking at her belly like its not hers. Up and down from time to time. active labor soon. Contractions getting frequent again.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

:dance: Keep us posted!!!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

big blob of white goo. very very soon


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Yay! So glad to hear things are finally moving. Hope all goes well!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Happy Kidding....... :thumb:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

goo is a little amber tinged. hanging down 2 inches.


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## mtmom75 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Yay! Good luck today!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

OK big question...do you have a camera? haha  I can't wait to hear about her delivery  Our last doe to kid was the same way, did NOT want me to leave, if I left to check on the doe and new kid I had turned outside for a little while, she'd throw a huge fit. 
Silly girls


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

yes I have a camera, my phone, and my brother as camera man. I also have my sis as helper. More goo. time for the camera soon


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

active labor and first sac


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Kids????


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

yup a sundgua doeling so happy. another one coming


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

YaY!!!   :leap: :stars: :wahoo:


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## mtmom75 (May 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Yay!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Wonderful!!!!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

congrats!!!!


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

WHOO!!! So exciting!!
Congrats!!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

YEEEEESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :stars: :stars: :stars: :stars: :stars:

Congrats on the :kidred: !!!!!!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy is due when she says she is~ Pre-Labor- kids today!*

Okay shes all done. Kids clean,dry, nursed.

She had :kidred: :kidblue: twins.
They are HUGE.
Both of them weigh 9 POUNDS each...as twins. A 18 pound birth..no wonder she was big.
She was reallly calm. My other doe screamed to death.
She just did her baby talk voice till the hooves were out and cried a little at the head.
Doeling was huge, I had to help pull her out, with contractions and with the head in position of course. BOTH were positioned correctly. After the first one she was already stretched and the second came out without needing help.

They are both identical sundgau in color. Both the same color..that is amazing!!
So happy I got my doe  :leap: :leap: . Macy didn't disappoint.
Macy is a keeper for sure. I didnt even grain more than 1 pound till the last few weeks. She got all that with hay mostly. She still has her "saddle bags". It wasn't all baby weight.

I am finding the bucks are so hard to get to nurse. Took me a while.
The doeling was moving around as her head was coming out. I knew there was an energetic one in there. She got her legs right away..even before her first meal.

All 3 are doing great.
I am super happy 

Pics to come. Camera quit so I only have bad pics from my phone.
I will try to take better ones and put these on soon.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Congrats!!!!! Glad it went well!!


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Congratulations, glad all is well


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

*Congratulations!!* Knew she'd have to have them eventually :wink:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Congratulations!!!! So glad she gave you a doeling


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

SO glad everything turned out right!!! COngrats!
M.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

congratulations Macey and Jesse! Happy story! :leap:


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Macy started a trend.................Mink finally kidded tonight also :leap:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Jesse, good job! So happy to read this post tonight.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Congrats and yes ...great job.... :thumb: :hi5:


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Thank goodness you got :kidblue: :kidred: :kidred: !!!!!

Congrats!!!!

And, Jesse......WHERE ARE THE PICTURES!!????!!! :GAAH:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded with HUGE Boy/Girl twins~ pics to come*

Thanks...but it is :kidred: :kidblue: 
Both are identical except the buckling has a small white mark on his head, small white spot the tip of his tail, and his fur is a big curly.
The doeling is perfect 

Sorry I forgot to post the link here...  
Pics can and will be seen here: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30771 :shades: 
It is easier than posting it on 2 threads.
I am adding some 1 day old pics to that thread soon.
They are so darn cute and now getting to be quite active. They are also REALLY clean, Macy does a good job being mom. Their white marks are pure white.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded Girl/Boy twins~Next up is Epic Spirit a FF*

Figured I might as well start this here. Would save starting another thread.

Next up is Spirit. She was bred to the same Sundgau alpine buck (who throws all sundgau big kids)

I thought she was due later but had the date wrong.
Actually I had the date right but still thought it was 3 weeks out.

Anyways Maestar farms Epic Spirit is a FF and just turned 2 this month.
She is a little on the small side...so I am hoping she does okay.
With her being so small I will be sure to be there for her.
She may need some help. A bit of a tease of that with the breeder, I never miss a kidding due to checking on them so much (I still sleep), lol. But she said "be sure to be there for her as she may need some help...although that isn't going to be a problem for you"

Spirit has hit a growth spirt in the last month, I think.
So I am not as worried about her kidding as before.
She just has small hips, that is what concerns me.

Her pooch hasn't changed at all, no stretching yet.
Her "udder" has only just started. Not an udder really but the teats are bigger and not attached to the body anymore.

She is due April 28th at the latest and any time before that.
I am thinking she will go at the latest point as she really has nothing going for her.
But I hear these FF's can be sneaky. I still don't think she will kid in the next week. Sometime after that likely.

I am thinking 1 from her. She JUST started showing it. Just this week she got bigger to where I started seeing her baby belly, never saw much of one before. Even since this morning it looked way bigger but could be mostly hay.

I think this goofy girl is going to be sneaky. She has nothing going for her that make me think she is due in May...but she can't possibly have a due date past April 28th (at 150). She is probably going to get an udder and such at the last minute :roll:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded Girl/Boy twins~Next up is Epic Spirit a FF*

...OKay this is a bit sooner than I had thought.
I was thinking going by udder and pooch spirit would kid someone around 2 weeks from now.
She is (as of today) showing signs she will kid before then.

She has been stretching today, getting kid(<likely one) into position.
I have seen it a few times today and without looking. at feeding time I see her stretch up getting the kid into position.
For whatever reason she is also rolling her head back A LOT. She did that before but now its even more.

Pooch has stretched a little bit in the last day or two. Still really small though.
She had some cream discharge when I was out there around 8.

So I think she could kid sometime next week. Do FF's spend longer stretching before kidding?
She has no udder yet so I just can't imagine her being this close.
I guess she has last minute plans.
Its going to be moving Macy and her kids out and putting Spirit in.
Although Macy and her kids may come out tomorrow.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded Girl/Boy twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page*

Well now I know for sure Spirit is planning something very last minute.
Her latest possible day 150 is on April 28th, which is still 9 days away.
You would think she would at least have started an udder by now?
Yup, still NO udder at all. Just 2 tiny teats. I know the date to be right.
I just didnt know they could go from nothing to full udder with only a little more than a week.
She has been stretching for close to a week. seems as if she is weeks off but I guess she is going to surprise me somehow.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy Kidded Girl/Boy twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page*

:hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded Girl/Boy twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page*

Spirit is roughly on day 146.
That is going by the latest possible day 150 she would be on day 146.
She could be closer to 150 if she was bred before Nov 28th.

She isn't close at all. Still no udder. I am thinking she will wait till May.
She will likely go late. Not unless they can just go 'surprise' and there an udder ;-)
Pooch is kinda puffy and its mushy around her tail (other than her hard ligs). Just it is still only teats. She hasn't dropped at all yet

She is in fact starting to show a little more. She is looking beautiful. She had mites really had and lost her fur. After treatment it has been growing back. Now it is all grown back and shiny. She finally seems to keep some wait on her...unlike before.

I am hoping she kids sometime before next Wednesday. My sister is coming from MO tomorrow (her 3rd day of driving w/ 3 kids and hubby). It would be neat is she would kid before she leaves.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

Well good luck with her. I had a doe udder up while pushing. She literally had a tiny lemon sized udder and by the time baby was out and cleaned up it was nursing off a melon sized udder. I had almost decided she was not bred.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

well this is dairy. so she better not have a lemon sized udder or else she would be counted as a lemon, lol.

But thanks.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

It can be confusing ...they love torturing us ...that 's for sure.... :hug:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

Well today is 150 days from when the buck was removed from their pen.
She still has nothing. She hasn't even started an udder.
In the pic above from 2 weeks ago is the same as now.
Actually that pic is kinda an illusion. She just has teats still...not really any udder.
I'm not sure if I should be worried about her having milk or not.
I just can't believe she can be on day 150 at the soonest or as much as 155.
She doesn't seem at all like my other does 2-7 days pre-kidding.
She is another torture for sure. I have family from MO here so that helps it be less of a torture.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

Well finally something to report.
She dropped (not sure exactly when but just now I saw she has really dropped...didnt check this morning).
So now she looks really deep. Still just teats but maybe she will bag up at kidding time.
Around her tail it is mushy except for her ligs. Maybe she could kid in a couple days..who knows.
She is open/puffy in the pooch.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins~Next up Epic Spirit a FF page 10~day 1*

Man, will she ever kid?
She IS pregnant. Told the breeders about her not kidding yet and they said maybe she clipped it or didnt take. Not true. She has been acting pregnant and just resently she started looking it. She dropped a few days ago and today looks even deeper.
No udder at all. she is puffy in the pooch and in the last 2 hrs she has softened a lot around her ligs and ligs were always rock solid but are starting to go away.
I am putting pics up.

She is on day 156+
Edit: she is actually deeper than that...it is just the way she is standing. She usually looks deeper than that. not very wide.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

I hate to say this, but she doesn't look very bred to me. Especially for a doe who should be overdue. She does look like she may have sunk in some around her tailhead from the behind picture, but from the side she doesn't look very sunk in to be loosing her ligs. Her pooch doesn't look to me like she could kid anytime soon.

Is there any possibility she was bred later? If you are for sure that she can't have been bred later, at day 156 I would be considering inducing her before the kid gets too big.

Perhaps she is going through a false pregnancy.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

Well I thought at first that the date was right for sure. Then when I talked to the breeder she said "maybe she got bred when I brought the buck back in the 1st week of dec." Why didnt she tell me that sooner? :hair: 
She said the doe that she brought the buck back for isnt looking close either. So likely she was bred later. She is more sunken today and softer around the tail. Looks maybe 2 days off like the breeders doe.
I know she isnt very big at all. I was beginning to think false pregnancy..but I hope that isnt true. I cant feel a kid but she doesnt like to be touched.
I hope this doe isnt a total loss.
There is more to this story but I have to work soon. Going to help re-string a piano and will be gone 7-8hrs.


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## mink81 (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

Jesse, i know i'm fairly new to the goat world, but maybe you could try something like i did with muffin..i've had her since she was 7 weeks old, yet she is so skittish and very difficult to get a hold of...i have a house, that was used for our great danes, that, my girls have been using for the past year...it's plenty big enough for me to climb in, and muffing cant escape so she has no choice but to let me check her out, i was forced to turn on the water hose on so she would run in the house to escape a shower, but nevertheless, i got her in there.....she looked a lot like your girl as far as not much of a belly, but her udder came in and i needed to check to see if she was truly pregnant or if it was a pseudo pregnancy...my buck is still very interested in her so i was very much confused with her...anyway, it took several minutes, but i FINALLY felt movement in there..it was a light few thumbs,and her belly is very tight..she still doesn't look very pregnant especially if she's due in less than a month, judging by her udder and the white discharge she's had on and off for the past few weeks,she is due soon


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

So found that they did have the buck back but it was after I bought spirit. They said the buck left Dec 2nd. So she is likely on day 157. I dont have any way of inducing her. The breeder gets lute from a farmer friend but said for me to wait and see. Only way would be through a vet.
Not showing any pointers yet. Still soft but ligs are there and she has no udder.

I still cant feel a kid. Last night she let me touch her while she was laying down and I felt long and hard in different places and felt no kid movement. Something is wrong. Maybe false pregnancy afterall.
Not sure what all is going on.

She still looks 2 days out yet. Not looking close to kidding at all.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

Well I was hopeing it wasnt true..but it is.
Spirit is somehow not pregnant.
Or the kid is dead. I have been feeling for a kid and havnt felt one in a long time.
I decided to hold her down a feel the bottom of her belly for a kid-nothing. I then bounced her quite a few times and felt nothing. My hands sunk in 2-4 inches. Should be hard if there was a kid?
Maybe its a baloon pregnancy or whatever. Where all that comes out is a water sack.

Weird thing is I saw discharge a couple weeks ago and 1 week ago she was stretching and then she started stretching again yesterday. She isnt softening in the ligs and has no udder but is soft around the tail at the end. Also pooch is kinda puffy.
Maybe she is getting ready to abort a dead kid that I cant feel? She is on day 158+ so the kid must be dead anyways. No way to induce her without a vet bill.

If all this is true this is very disappointing indeed. I was thinking of selling her anyways.
Not sure exactly what is going on.


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

I'm sorry but she doesn't sound like she's pregnant. Maybe when you saw discharge she was in heat? sooo disappointing!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded ~Next up FF Epic Spirit page 10/11~day 156+*

Discharge was not a heat.
I think this is a false pregnancy where she fills with fluid instead of kids and (from what I understand) they still prepare for kidding and pop out water sacs.
She is slowly preparing for "kidding" and without an udder. I heard that they can go way overdue if a false pregnancy.
She has been acting pregnant which is the same behavior for a false pregnancy. 
Yes, it is very disappointing.
Found a nice buckling for a future sire so I might sell her.


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## Shazzles (Apr 28, 2012)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

 sorry to hear that. I have had a dog do that a few times.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

Sorry if she is not bred. Let us know the update.


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## mink81 (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

i've read that goats can absorb the fetus at any point during the first half of the pregnancy, obviously for no apparent reason; i'm so sorry for what you're going through..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

awww that stinks Jesse, I am so sorry  Hopefully she'll bounce back and you can get her bred, or if you decide to sell her she'll be fine for her new owners to breed. Has she kidded before? How long have you had her?


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

I've had her since Dec.
I bought abigail and Macy and didnt feel good about leaving the last one. My 13 yr old brother actually bought her and for $75. I put all the money in feed into her.
I made a deal with my brother that I get part of the kid money for feeding her and he gets the rest. She is 2 yrs old, stunted, only 100 ish lbs without ever a successful kidding.

We are thinking we might find her a pet home with minimal or no breeding. I just think she is too small and isnt likely to grow anymore. We are looking to either buy a buckling sire or a better, more quality doe to replace her.

We would hate to see her go but she would do well with young children. Kids ages 4-19+ really. She is very friendly and gentle.
I am not sure how good she will handle yearly kiddings. I was nervous about her kidding this year so maybe it is good she skipped out.


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## mink81 (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

Muffin is extremely small, she's half the size of my maiden doe...it's really hard to tell in my pictures, just how tiny she is, but she is not full size for a pygmy/nigerian at all to me..i'm absolutely terrified of her kidding within the next month; she's very immature also, i'm wary of her mothering skills also...she just doesn't seem to know hot "to get outta the rain" so to speak ...spirit is beautiful, i really hate that she may have to go, i wanted to see babies from her..lol


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: Macy Kidded twins ~Next up Epic Spirit-False pregnancy :*

Yes she is beautiful. She also lives up to her name as she is high spirited and full of personality.
However she is too stunted so I wont be able to show her. She is kinda narrow in the hips, has a slight steepness to her rump, needs a longer neck and more brisket etc.

I would hate to sell her but may have to. I am buying a 6yr old high production doe that I still owe $250 on. I lack the money for her and if I cant get the money soon I may have to sell spirit for 150 to put toward the other doe. The older doe has better conformation and is currently milking 2 gallons daily before peak production. I would like to give spirit a chance if it works out. I want to see what her udder looks like.


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