# Ugh!



## Ali_1010 (May 8, 2011)

I can't find ANY LGDs in this area-not one! Not a breeder nor adult dog in site! I could go through the LGD rescue-but the problem with that is my yard is not fenced at all-my dog and goats know their boundaries, but I know LGDs are prone to wandering-so i'm guessing a rescue group would not be okay with my non-fenced property. 

The other week up at a show (just watching, no showing for me this time i'm burnt out!) they had llamas! Tons and tons of llamas! The FFA group in that area shows and breeds llamas as their projects-and it just so happens that I know a few of the girls who have llama projects! I didnt ask them much since they really dont know much (they have a WONDERFUL ag. program) but they had some really friendly and pretty llamas, which got me to thinking...should I get llamas? 

I only really have a coyote/feral dog problem-no bears or cougars or anything crazy like that-could llamas fight coyotes and feral dogs off? 

I've heard stories of llamas attacking kids during kidding season-i'm pulling all my kids, but could this be an issue? 

How high does their fencing need to be? Are they prone to escaping? My fencing is about 5 1/2 feet tall-would this work? I couldnt really see llamas being "jumpers". 

Can llamas be friendly with humans? I worked with alpacas and llamas many summers on a children's farm, and they were never fond of me. The llamas often spat at me even when i was feeding them, and I developed a small fear of them, i might admit. :help: 

I have also heard that I need TWO llamas, and that one alone can become "rogue". While this may or may not be true, I figured if two works better then one, why not? And male/female pairs work best i've also heard-is this true? Are they seasonal breeders (so they wouldnt constantly be chasing each other around instead of scaring off predators!)?

And how easily could I introduce two llamas from seperate places? Somone on CL is giving away a female llama, which I was considering buying a male and then I would have a pair...would this work, or does it work better if they're from the same farm? 

Thanks!
Ali


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Let me start off by saying... I had a LGD for awhile that was an absolute nightmare. It caused numerous problems and ended up killing goats instead of protecting them. I also have heard from others about them having problems with their LGDs. I sold the dog I had and got into llamas. I haven't yet heard of anyone whose been disappointed in their llama for guarding for minor predators like coyotes...they can't go up against a pack of dogs or a cougar...I did have one llama by itself at one point that was scared of everything so I sold him and bought two proven guard llamas (an intact male and female) that were also used for showing and 4H.

With llamas...you have to really do your research and shop around for the right one. I'd also recommend a pair. They seem to do way better that way. 

My llamas live with the goats 24/7 and are in a 5 1/2 ft fence and then moved out to browse with short hog panels in one place and I've never had an escape or an attempt at an escape. As long as they're well fed and happy they should stay in their pen just fine. Make sure you don't buy one that is known for escaping though if you're worried about it.

Yes, llamas can be friendly with people. My male llama is a little more standoffish, but my female and her recent baby are both pretty friendly and will let you rub and pet on them. My llamas have never spit at me...though if they aren't in the mood for handling then they'll pin their ears and give me that "look" and I know to give them some space. The only time they've spit at someone since i've had them is when one of my does got her head caught in the fence and my neighbor went to the edge of the fence and tried to get her out. While she was screaming my male llama came over and starts hissing at and spitting on my neighbor. :lol: I felt bad, but glad that the llama was doing his job!

I've never had a problem with them hurting the goats or kids. My two will actually go up and check on new crying kids and nuzzle them a bit and then walk away. They're very gentle with them. You'll need to find one or a pair that has been raised with goats though just to be safe...also monitor them during kidding season.

My two don't chase each other around much. When the female comes in season the male usually chases her for a few weeks, breeds her, and after that they're usually pretty good...though every once in awhile the male chases the female...but not to often. My female llama has had one cria a year since i've had her. 

As far as introducing two llamas I am not sure...my two have always been together. If you can, i'd try and find a breeding pair that have been raised with goats, but if not...talk with a llama breeder and see how they would recommend gonig about introducing them. 

You really need to find the right llamas for the job. Some are already trained and raised up for guarding...others won't do guarding at all. I got really lucky with the two I have, but normally it will take some looking around to find the right ones. Each llama is different and some have more guardian instinct than others. I definately wouldn't go out and buy the first male and female you find. Some of the well trained guard llamas will cost quite a bit...you'll be taking a big gamble if you purchase ones not actively guarding. :thumb:

Good luck!


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

If you have 5 1/2 ft fencing that is absolutely adequate for an LGD. Mine stay behind 48" fencing and never, ever try to leave. My does broke through the fence a few weeks ago....the dogs barked non stop until they got my attention and they tried to get them back into the fence. They had an opportunity to leave but didn't...they did their job and kept the goats from wandering off.  I love my LGD's  As with any animal....proper training from puppyhood is a must. I put a lot if work into training my pups...but it was worth it...now I know my goats are 100% safe. A dog that is allowed to get away with bad behavior will continue with bad behavior. I've also noticed that a lot of people seem to think that just because a dog is half LGD that it is an LGD. This is not the case. Please make sure that you find a reputable breeder or a reputable rescue that can assure you your LGD is 100% LGD breeds. IE: a lab/ great pyrenees mix...NOT an LGD. Have you found a breed that you are particularly interested in? LGD's vary from breed to breed..all having different ways of guarding and different pros and cons from breed to breed... I'd recommend www.lgd.org to begin your research.  There are also some great books on "How to train your Livestock Guardian dog" you might want to invest in one of those as well. 

As far as llamas go, I've heard good things about llamas. I don't use them personally because with our predator load I don't think it's time or cost effective to add another prey animal into guard my herd. A llama can hold off a single dog or a single coyote...a pack and the llama will be dinner...or another large vet bill best case scenario. Also, llamas can carry both CL and Johnes so you will need to be sure to buy 1 from a tested herd or else you risk infecting your goats.

Before looking to add any guardian (llama, donkey, LGD etc) I would consider investing in fencing though. The point to having any guardian is the last ditch effort to protect your herd from a predator. Your front line is your fencing. Use 3 or 4 strands of hotwire...it's cheaper than doing full perimeter fencing and can be very effective.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I also could not find a LGD breeder near me. I found one person a state away that raised Anatolians like I wanted but they were pets not raised with livestock. I kept searching and found a breeder that had generations of Anatolians raised with goats and chickens. She was not close to NJ she was in MO! I had a pup shipped to me. 

Training training training! Any animal needs to be well behaved and although my pup is doing great I wont leave her alone with the goats yet. She has a pen along side them. With her mom she was raised with the goats but she had her mom to discipline her is she misbehaved. Here she only has my husband and I to discipline so supervised interaction is all she gets now unless it is thru the fence.


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

I also have an LGD pup right now and LOVE HER!!! We have put lots of hard work in and still have much more still, but I can already see it paying off. Our GP is 4 months old and already has a few goats she is best friends with, licks them and will bark if something isn't right. Has started to bark when people come near the fence and they aren't with me. Here people are giving LGD's away because they are getting out of goats. Too bad I don't want another one right now.  I have heard of Llamas guarding but never had one so don't have any input as far as that goes. But good luck


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