# Is this Chamoisee?



## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm told it's "perfect".


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

No. These are chamoisee...The tops is the most common shade of chamoisee, the bottom is pale chamoisee. Notice the markings are exactly the same. These markings will not vary. Brown(different shades are possible) with black legs, underbelly, line down back and will generally have two black lines coming down over the eyes.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I think that is "Cou Clair" but definitely not chamoisee.



> I'm told it's perfect


The goat or the color?


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

capriola-nd said:


> I think that is "Cou Clair" but definitely not chamoisee.


Agreed. Though with the facial markings...maybe Cou Blanc? She may walk a fine line since her hind quarters only have a little bit of black on them

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/alpines/
http://www.homesteadersway.com/IMG_2709_1.JPG
http://www.homegroanacres.com/wp-conten ... MadMax.JPG
http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/goats/pix/alpine-01.jpg


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Yeah, I thought so. I'm starting to think this woman is crazy. That's "a perfect chamoisee pattern with cou blanc in her genetic history." You know, because she's super rare. She's 11 by the way.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

She's not a full cou clair, but could have it somewhere back in her genetics. To me this looks like she's got pygmy genetics behind her with agouti marking on her face. Do you have pics of her parents? There is no definate name for her markings or color.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

she is old style nigerian dwarf. her pattern is not chamoisee as has been mentioned but yah a cou clair pattern maybe more likely

the chamoisee pattern is not rare. One does not sell goats by rare color, thats silly.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Nah, she's not a mutt. She's old school Enchanted Hill. Double registered, I believe. I'd have to check.

I'm confused how a woman who's been breeding for so long can get so many color a** backwards. And then use them as a selling point.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Enchanted Hill Crescent Moon

Sire: Enchanted Hill CC Wm F Buckley
SS: Karim's Little Owl
SD: Enchanted Hill Lotus Blossom

Dam: Enchanted Hill Larkspur
DS: Goodwood Merlin
DD: Enchanted Hill Leprechaun


Her pedigree, if that helps.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Those are very good bloodlines. Since she's full nigerian she really could have several markings mixed together.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Alright.... next pedigree. How's this one? Do you know?

Enchanted Hill Cozette

Sire: Enchanted Hill O'Leary
SS: Karim's Little Owl
SD: Enchanted Hill Leprechaun

Dam: Old Orchard Valentine
DS: Patchwork's Rocky Road
DD: Old Orchard Elfin Fairy


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Enchanted Hill has bred some superb goats. I really really have like most of the goats I have seen from them. I have never heard of Patchwork, Old Orchard, or Karim's herds, but if Enchanted Hill was using them in their herd then they are probably very nice goats. So I do like the pedigrees. The last one was better though, imo.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I found Enchanted HIll O'Leary on this page -- also has some of his daughters http://pemberleyacres.com/nd_reference.htm

looks like a nice buck

Enchanted Hill Leprechaun -- couldnt find her picture but she was in some nice goats pedigrees


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

LOL, I recognize these goats . . . was recently perusing the same website. My thought was that the breeder has the color patterns confused on many of the goats. I don't get the sense that it's to pull the wool over prospective buyers' eyes - perhaps the breeder is just misinformed.

Our Huckleberry has a lot of Enchanted Hill on the sire's side and shares some of these bloodlines you've mentioned. I'll try to find a more recent pic of him, although my pics are all natural/not posed.


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

I'll have to take a picture of him tomorrow if the weather cooperates. This is one I've shared already . . . sorry to repeat it. (he's not Chamoisee)

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10682


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Gosh, is he eye candy or what? I really  him. If I get lucky, one of these ladies will produce a baby with his coloring


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

kids-n-peeps said:


> LOL, I recognize these goats . . . was recently perusing the same website. My thought was that the breeder has the color patterns confused on many of the goats. I don't get the sense that it's to pull the wool over prospective buyers' eyes - perhaps the breeder is just misinformed.


I know and this makes me nervous because she's supposed to be promoting the breed. I know there are sooo many colors, but I've personally emailed her several times and she's all over the place with information and such. Ugh.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Grand Daughter of Enchanted Hill CC Wm F Buckley
Grand Champion Jr. Doe God's Love Farm Choco Eclair AR*D#2227

http://www.meadowridgekennels.com/gpage56.html

also from Enchanted Hill Larkspur I found lots of sons and great grand sons -- so that means she had enough of an udder and conformation to create a legacy like that.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

She is a chamoisee. A cou clair is french for clear neck, the animal will have a black back end, with our without black legs. often with a dorsal stripe and and black facial markings.
her front end will be saffron gray off white or brown, like these.
http://olentangyalpines.com/photos/Tellurian08.jpg
http://www.sherecountry.com/Blue%20Yoko3.jpg
http://velvetacres.com/YO%2092109%20rut.jpg
http://flyawayfarm.com/images/peace1.jpg

Cou blanc is french for white neck and the markings will be the same as above but the neck and shoulders will be white. A lot of times kids born looking like cou blanc are actually cou clairs as they get darker as they get older. I have only ever had one true cou blanc in twelve years.

http://flyawayfarm.com/images/trinity1.jpg
http://www.rainbowcolorsalpines.com/pics/43.JPG

this kid also came up when i did a google search for a cou blanc but you can see she is already going silver over her neck and withers. making her a cou clair rather then a cou blanc
http://dawnwinddairygoats.com/yahoo_sit ... 161610.JPG

there are variations of the color patturn, 
broken cou clair (he has a white stripe up his side, but it doesnt go all the way around)
http://members.cox.net/criswaller/couclairAGS.jpg

Belted cou clair (she has a white band around her middle)
http://autumn-acres-farm.com/Nexus%20062009.jpg

the defination of chammy would be brown with or without black legs facial markings dorsal strip and markings on either side of the tail.
http://www.rainbowcolorsalpines.com/pics/Luckie.JPG
http://coldcomfort.com/bunbury.jpg
http://autumn-acres-farm.com/Taudry.jpg
http://dawnwinddairygoats.com/yahoo_sit ... 03_std.jpg
http://www.sunvalleygoats.com/images/primo.jpg
http://www.boeredsilly.com/Gerard.jpg (two tone lavender chamoisee)

the kid that kids-n-peeps posted is a frosted cou blanc.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

She's got her listed as chamoisee with black accents. This is correct?


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Maybe I am missing something but...what makes this doe chamoisee? She has black over her thighs but no back on her belly or legs. I would have called her an extremely diluted buckskin before a chamoisee...can any help me see what I'm missing?

Thanks!!


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I thought the same thing Amanda, but I'm new... so I dunno :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Beth a chamoisee in a nigerian dwarf is different then a chamoisee in an Alpine.

Nigerian Dwarf color naming

The actal genetic name is:
Badgerface

Colloquial name is:
Chamoisee, Oberhasli pattern

description:
Tan with black belly, backstripe, lower legs and face.

The other pattern you call Chamoisee is actualy two tone chamoisee.

Genetic name is:
peacock

Colloquial name 
Cou clair, cou blanc, two-tone chamoisee

description:
Tan front half, black rear half, dark legs, pale head with dark stripes. Cou clair has a tan front, cou blanc has a white front. Two-tone chamoisees have dark areas that are any color other than black.

http://members.cox.net/foxcroft/genetics.htm


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

No she is not chamoisee. Stacey is correct. Different breeds have different names for their patterns and markings, she is far from a chamoisee as a NIGERIAN. If she was a different breed she would possibly be called something else. It just varies from breed to breed. I looked at some goats in her pedigree and several were cou clair so i'd say she's closest to that, she may even throw kids will a full cou clair pattern.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. I just want to make sure I have her color labeled correctly.

Unrelated to the doe in the picture --
Calypso's papers are in the mail back to me. I registered her as Silver Cou Blanc, because that was as close as I could guess. I'm wondering if they registered her as that or changed the coloring since I also submitted photos.... thoughts?


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Ok i did a bunch of hunting around this site is calling anything from a solid brown with black markings to a traditional cou clair a cou clair. VEry odd, as they are two totally different color patturns. 
Then there is another picture that shows a very similar marked goat as being a badgerfaced chamoisee. Im just flat out confused now. Any other dairy breed and she would be a tractional chamoisee.

http://members.cox.net/foxcroft/genetics.htm#basics
beth


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