# Why do you guys dehorn your goats?



## HaleyBugs (Feb 10, 2013)

I have five goats, my Boers all have their horns and my two Oberhasli's don't. Besides getting stuck in the fence, what are the pros and cons of having horns and not having horns that you guys have found?
I like to leave mine if I can because I feel that they need to protect themselves in case a dog, coyote, or something comes and attacks them. The other day the neighbor dog came over and had my five month old bottle baby (who is dumber than a box of rocks and didn't do anything) by the throat! My other Boer came over and kicked that dogs ass, leaving my little Susie unscathed! I was really glad I left horns on her then.
But, I've also had her get her head stuck in several buckets. While its highly comical, she could injure herself. 
So why do you guys do it, or choose not to?


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## S+S Homestead (Jul 23, 2012)

We do not dehorn our goats for the same reasons you gave. They need them for protection. To me dehorning a goat is the same as declawing a cat. 

In addition to defense, horns act as heat regulators and help the goats maintain their body temperature. Besides, horns make great handles.


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## ksevern (Dec 12, 2012)

I have meat goats, mostly Boer-type. I do not dehorn, but will be forced to if I enter the wether show market. I live in the country and the goats roam through the brush. Horns help them move brush, help regulate their temperature, and give me a hand-hold. As you mentioned, they are also defensive weapons.

If I had a large dairy goat operation, I would probably dehorn.


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## Wlschwallenberg (Jan 4, 2013)

ksevern said:


> Horns help them move brush, help regulate their temperature, and give me a hand-hold. As you mentioned, they are also defensive weapons.


This is why we do not de-horn.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

I have Boers and we disbud market wethers because that is what is required to show. Does and bucks keep their horns. If I get a dairy goat, I want one that has been disbudded for my safety.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f183/why-disbud-140270/


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Our boers were purchased w/o horns. We will only disbud the ones that will be market wethers as where we are it's mandatory for the kids. As for my diary goats (ND's), I have one who due to timing didn't get done. But, the rest are done and babies will be. They can't have horns to show, while I'm not showing at the moment if I decided to or sold an animal that someone may want to show I'd have cut out that possible sale of a show animal.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

I disbud my show wethers because they have to be.
My nannie keep their horns though.
But all my goats are pinned up where animals can't get to them


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## letisha (Jan 30, 2013)

I disbud my goats. I have Nigis and its a lot easier on the stand for milking. My current buck has horns and he is nasty. He came up behind me the other day and caught the back of my leg. I will not have anymore horns once he finds his new home. I also have small children that love to visit with my goats and I worry about their safety. 
When we get our Boer goats they will probably keep their horns. But they won't be pets like my Nigis are


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Pros:
-Less hazardous to other goats, will not flip babies, accidentally injure each other, etc.
-Less hazardous to people, will not injure me or future buyers with the horns
-Will not get hung up on fences, trees, or collars
-Can show in dairy shows

Cons:
-Does not stay as cool in the summer
-Horns are really cool looking

I would be tempted to keep the horns on if dairy horns were like meat goat horns, but dairy horns point up more than boer goat horns do, and that makes them a bit more of a challenge. So, that's my reasoning


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## Delilah (Jan 6, 2013)

We disbud our dairy goats because if you want to show them they can't have horns.


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## amanita (Feb 3, 2013)

Goats enjoy head butting games which are painful if done without the shock absorbing horns... Skull against skull, even in play, can leave a goat tender headed. 

I grew up with dairy goats (nubian, alpine...) we used to dehorn. But the pain involved in removal and the rest of their lives without their horns has caused us to leave them natural for the animals. Never was poked or injured seriously. Polite goats, which we work with daily create respect and care in young children. Now we have weed eating professionals (Spanish cashmere and boer dairy crosses) which all have horns. My 3 year old niece visits the herd and kids when she comes by.


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## jaycee (Aug 3, 2011)

From a safety perspective I'd like to add that the potential of a goat getting caught in a fence and being seriously hurt as a result... or of seriously harming one of its pen mates with its horns is much greater than the chance that it could use its horns to defend itself against a dog or coyote. Goats are prey animals and if a dog wants to kill a goat and it can't escape then those horns will not protect it. On the other hand I've seen personally a goat gored by another goat killing it, and heard many stories of goats found dead with their heads in fences. Never heard any stories of goats fighting off large predators with their horns although I suppose it could happen doesn't seem too likely.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Why do I disbud my kids?
-They're dairy goats and can't have horns in the show ring.
-Putting their head in the stanchion is made more difficult and the horns really get in the way.
-The horns can be dangerous around people, kids, and other goats. I just got jabbed in the neck by a horned nigerian doeling by accident the other day and boy did that hurt.
-I've found it sometimes can give a goat a nasty dominant attitude toward it's herdmates that don't have horns.
-It's easier for horned goats to get caught in the fence.
-Horned goats are sometimes rougher on fencing and things around them vs. a disbudded goat.

Those are just my reasons for disbudding. There have been a lot of threads in the past on this topic if you want even more information, there is a search feature at the top. :thumb:


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

I agree with jaycee. All our goats have to see is a dog running across the field and they turn tail and run. They don't stick around to fight the dog or even to see if the dog is running after them. They have the prey mentality and that is to run. Some goats are more aggressive than others with dogs, one of our does will shove and butt our dogs when they get in her area. I suppose if a horned goat gets attacked they could hurt the dog but I doubt the dog would stop if he wants to kill it. 

IMO, there are just too many things that can go wrong with a goat that has horns. Our does weigh close to 200 pounds so I'd hate to see what they could do to each other in a fight.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Fairly new in the goat world, but the reasons I dehorn are the same as everyone else's. Salability, and safety to humans and themselves/other goats. My property is also fully fenced in, not saying that a freak occurrence couldn't happen and a dog or other predator couldn't get in if they REALLY REALLY wanted to. My does still do plenty of head butting, they don't seem to be holding back at all imo. 

I do NOT do the disbudding myself though. I am far to weak stomached for that sort of thing. I hired a guy who has been raising NDs for some years now, he did a wonderful job on my doeling, I am really glad that he is the one I went with.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I have small openings in my fence. My goats horns cannot get stuck in them. We replaced all the larger holed fence with smaller 2 inch by 4 inch sized holes.

I choose to not disbud. I don't show and I would refuse to show based on the forcing of horn removal alone. I don't like being told that I "have" to disbud/dehorn in order to show a goat. 

But that's my choice. Each person can make choices based on what's best for them and their herd. I would never tell someone that they should or should not disbud/dehorn. Each herd is different.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

thomcarol said:


> I agree with jaycee. All our goats have to see is a dog running across the field and they turn tail and run. They don't stick around to fight the dog or even to see if the dog is running after them. They have the prey mentality and that is to run. Some goats are more aggressive than others with dogs, one of our does will shove and butt our dogs when they get in her area. I suppose if a horned goat gets attacked they could hurt the dog but I doubt the dog would stop if he wants to kill it.
> 
> IMO, there are just too many things that can go wrong with a goat that has horns. Our does weigh close to 200 pounds so I'd hate to see what they could do to each other in a fight.


When my saanen first my my dog, she tried to kill him. She's polled.

She went on high alert, her ruff was standing on end, she growled and charged him. She meant business. I had to rescue my property guard dog.

Maybe it's just her, but she's NOT scared of my 100 pound dog at all.

Neither is my little ND buckling Jack, he chases my dog. I think Jack is playing but my dog is terrified of the goats.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I have dairy goats so they are dibsudded because their heads won't fit in the stanchion as well. It also gives them more of a feminine appearance IMO. Just look at dairy cows, they are also dehorned because with horns their heads won't fit as well into the factory made head gates, most dairy animals are also fed hay through a fence/keyhole shape so they can not waste as much. Horned animals are more likely to either not fit, or have a harder time getting out. Almost all of the people that I have had call about a milking goat always ask to make sure the goat does not have horns, even people just wanting a home milker. Some don't ask, but most of them do.

When I first had Boers I disbudded all of them, but that was because in my area everyone disbudded. They also had to be kept in smaller pens because we didn't have a lot of land. I knew someone who had a gorgeous Boer doe, got her head caught in the fence over night and broke her neck. I like the horns on Boers, but if I had to keep them in smaller pens I wouldn't want horns on them because they can get caught. In AZ it was not a good thing for a goat to get caught out in the sun when the temps were upwards of 120 degrees. Most meat goats aren't handled quite as much as dairy goats, so it isn't that big of a deal to leave the horns on if they are in an area where they can't get their heads stuck.

One major con to leaving horns on an animal is if you sell the animal and the people later decide they want the horns off and either band the horns (which causes the goat to be in a lot pain for quite awhile), saw them off with a wire saw (which leaves a gaping hole going to the sinus cavity until it fills in) or worse thinks they can lop them off like you with cow horns (the goat will most likely bleed to death if this happens). So you do have to think about the market for your type of goat. Is it desirable to have horns or not? If not, unless you plan to keep the goat forever it is often in the better interest of the goat to disbud them at a young age. It only hurts them for a few seconds and once it is done and done correctly they go back to bouncing and playing like nothing happened. If it is, then leave them on.

All of my goats are disbudded and butt heads all the time. None of them act tender headed. Their skulls are very hard, much harder than ours and like the horns are made to absorb and withstand impact.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Dayna said:


> I choose to not disbud. I don't show and I would refuse to show based on the forcing of horn removal alone. I don't like being told that I "have" to disbud/dehorn in order to show a goat.


Most shows depending on where you show you don't have to dehorn them for breed. You only have to decor them for meet stock shows (where they also have to be wethers)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

With my boers I love their horned look, it to me, is beautiful on a boer. I do not horn my goats.

 As mentioned and I believe the same. 
The horns serve as a radiator, keeps them cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.
It is a way to catch the Does, if I have to do something quick with them, otherwise, I would have to get a rope every time. 
If you have a horned vs dehorned goat, the one without horns will lose and may get hurt.
Hotlines will help prevent horns getting stuck in a fence. Or you can out on a dunce hat, LOL
They can protect themselves better against predators with horns.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

I see both sides of the argument. If I ever have dairy goats and chose to leave the horns intact, I could show through the International Dairy Goat Registry (IDGR). They actually encourage that you leave your goats horn intact. But, I would probably fall into the epidemic most dairy breeders who want leave the horns intact. I will have to disbud so my buyers can show with ADGA or AGS if they choose to do so. My Boers I would MOST definitely leave their horns on them. I think they look more elegant with horns. I've seen Boer does without horns, it just doesn't look right. I do prefer horns on my goats for the "AC" in the summer and the defensive qualities. Yes, it dos hurt when you get poked with them, but that's the purpose for them. If you teach your goats not to challenge you and not to use their horns on you, you won't have a problem unless it's an accident. It's just a matter of proper parenting.


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## Delilah (Jan 6, 2013)

I also think it depends on the goat itself when t has horns and how it was treated and trained some can be mean. And aggressive so I kind of think it depends on the owner. Just my opinion though!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree that you should train your goats to behave, horned or not :thumb:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Unless a customer requests it, we leave horns on. Boers are pretty laid back for the most part.
As for fence it is field fence with small openings. 
We bought a disbudded Nubian. She reigned as Queen over the Boers all her life.
Her full Nub daughter was disbudded. 
We must have fried her brains cause she got her head stuck in the hay rack a few times.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we disbud..our least favorite thing to do but find it necessary..there is a whole thread on this subject which can be a bit sensitive between those who do and those who no not...My advice is do what best suites your herd : ) as for heads getting stuck in buckets...be sure to remove any handle...a goat can break its neck trying to get unstuck...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I like this thread the very best. Everyone just saying their opinion with no arguement or blame.

I disbud. My goats are very big, very strong, and often on public beaches, in state parks, and walking to the store on the sidewalk. Many many children and adults have run up to pet the goats. I can't take the liability of an accident with a large Saanen horn. 
My husband is not steady on his feet anymore. He often needs to grab the top strap on a saddle to help him up a rough trail. He doesn't need injured again by a goat tripping and throwing his head back. (his crushed ankle has been fused)
I feel that my boys go through 5 minutes of pain in return for a life that almost no other wether lives. They don't remember being disbudded, they were too young. If given the choice, they would probably take the trade off.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree, goathiker, this has been the best thread. No one is getting defensive, which I think is a big thing.


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## kayshowgoats (Feb 16, 2013)

Luckily, even with Kay showing her goats, disbudding is our choice. Both our local county fair & the NM state fair just state that the horns have to be tipped. The Eastern NM state fair says they can't be more than two inches, so we may have to disbud if we want to go there. 
On Kay's first goat, the extension agent tipped it the absolute tiniest amount. In fact, they smoothed back out to a point, so that two years later (which was just last month) I retipped her horns since she was about to have her twins. Plus, she'd take her horns to us every time we checked her udder or ligs (I told you she hated us touching her backside). 
On her second goat, I tipped them myself. I simply took bolt cutters to the top inch. Kay has learned to feel down & find the absolute lowest you can cut so they don't bleed (you don't want them to be warm where you cut). 
Now, on her first baby, she disbudded. But she refused to do it with the next two, who were dairy babies. I will leave it up to her with these three this year. She may only choose to disbud the two bucklings. 

Kim


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I love it too guys.  TGS is a good place. :grouphug:

No one is wrong here, whether we dehorn or not, we love our goats, the way we want them to be.


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## HaleyBugs (Feb 10, 2013)

My little bottle baby who is five months old now, I left her horns instead of disbudding her because I don't show and probably never will. I had a ND/pygmy whether who was polled and he beat the absolute sh*t out of her one day and ripped one of her little horn nubs off! He is now in my freezer, and Susie has weird looking horns, but she is so desensitized to everything that she won't protect herself. I have two bassets, they are too lazy to go after my goats and wouldn't if they had the energy. One day they were out sitting in the barn with me and my boer Pygmy doe (who has horns) saw them from across the field, charged over and butted one of them, I'm pretty sure if I hadn't tried to stop her she would have killed my dog. Thats the one who attacked the neighbor dog who had Susie by the neck. I don't have any problems with them getting stuck in the fence, and none of my goats have ever been aggressive towards me or anybody else. Just the dogs!


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## WildKarma (Apr 29, 2013)

I am new to goats and to here! Thank you for all of the perspectives on this issue. Our girls gave birth to 3 boys over the weekend and we have been debating back and forth on the disbudding issue. They are not going to be shown, registered or anything. They are just our backyard beauties that I am sure won't even be for meat since my daughters adore them. I am still undecided but it has been helpful to read the opinions of other goat folks.


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## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

My doe is polled and she was bred to a horned buck... Both kids got dehorned just in case I get to keep them. We have dairy cattle and would hate to see a udder get gored by a horn.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I hate disbudding. I need a bourban after I do it. But I do disbud my goats. 

Reasons:
- I show my dairy goats and they need to be disbudded
- The market here is for disbudded bottle fed kids
- added benefits are not getting stuck in the fence, far less damage to fences, sheds, equipment etc, from goats rubbing their horns or butting on them
- eliminates the risk of broken legs when goats get each others legs stuck between their horns. 

A couple of extra thoughts. 
- Boers and fibre goats have neat curled horns, whereas dairy goats have horns that stick straight up and also tend to be pointier on the ends. So - a bit more potential to injure humans or other goats. 
- Yes horns serve as a heat loss mechanism. However, my disbudded dairy goats do fine in the heat, our summer here is 45'C or 113'F IN THE SHADE. More like 55'C or 131'F out in the sun, and my disbudded dairy goats lay out in it and dont seem to have a problem. Very humid too being coastal and tropical and they still cope. 
- After seeing my saanen doe Violet beat the crap out of any dog that comes in the paddock, I dont think that horns are necessary for goats to be able to defend themselves against predators. I think if a dog is going to bite a goat it will do so horns or not.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

I always thought I don't mind angora/boer horns because of the nice way they tuck back.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I do not disbud/dehorn because I like the looks of horns and I adore Kiko horns. Horns also disperse heat, they provide at least some protection, they are very handy if I have to do something with a doe and, in my honest opinion, dehorning is barbaric and cruel. I do not have a problem with my does getting their heads stuck in the fencing because it is a culling criteria on my place. I figure if they are dumb enough to keep getting stuck, I don't want their genetics in my herd. Overly aggressive does are also culled, that is another trait I don't want. If I see a doe catch another does leg in her horns, she is on the next trailer out of here. Might sound dumb or unrealistic, but it works for me.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

I have goats get stuck in fices horned or not.
Theres always sonething on the other side they want!

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## kayshowgoats (Feb 16, 2013)

Kay did decide to disbud her bucklings (that will be wethers in about the next week to ten days). She did also decide to keep the horns on her doeling. She just wants her does to be on "even ground" when they go to be bred. 

However, we did find a HUGE reason for tipping horns. Kay went out to feed. She was pulling apart the flake of hay to help the babies compete with the mamas. She was bent down and Belle, at that moment, moved in such a way that she hit Kay pretty hard with her horns. Kay came in crying and her nose was a bit swollen for a day or so. I just kept having visions of a non-tipped horn spearing through her sinus cavity. I am just so thankful that I had tipped her horns again so that she wouldn't accidentally hurt her babies (and now MY baby!!)


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## gmn11 (May 3, 2013)

I find that a goat with horns soon starts to use them to gain superiority over the other does. The instinctive way they use the horns is to hook up behind the gut area of their victim. The skin is very thin there and could be a disaster.


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## lanafana (Apr 22, 2013)

I live in the city and as per our ordinances we are not allowed to keep goats with horns, so it's not a choice for us. I also have small kids that loooooove being with the goats, I don't know how comfortable I would be with them out there if they had horns.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I dehorn for safety reasons and because you cannot show a dairy goat who is horned.

I have seen just as many dead, predator killed horned goats as de-horned, so I don't believe that horns protect.

I have kids and grand kids and littles who visit my place. Horns are too dangerous, especially when they are at eye level with a child. I own a small place, so I am up close with my goats all the time. I have been impaled by horns totally accidentally. I have seen other goats ripped wide open by an queen doe who got miffed at an underling.

Horns also get in the way in a milk stand, get tangled in fencing. A friend of mine, who raises Boers, lost one when the bucks horns got stuck in a V of a tree. Broke his $1500.00 neck. She also had a couple get their heads tangled in the fence and had another doe come up from behind and butt them. Both died form a broken neck.

I have had goats for 35 years and never had one break their necks, get stuck in a fence or be gored because I do not allow horns on my place any more. I had the 1 dairy goat with horns, a rescue. She jumped off the milk stand one day, my thigh got caught between her back and her horn tip. When her front feet hit the floor and her head jerked back, the horn tip drove into my leg, thru muscle, right down to the bone. I did have Boers. The originals had horns, the kids born at my place did not. The originals had problems getting stuck in the fence. Hornless ones did not.

Nope, no horned goats for me.


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## gmn11 (May 3, 2013)

One thing I feel for sure is that if you do decide to dehorn, then disbudding with a hot iron is the only way to go. And don't wimp out, keep the iron on long enough. I check the edges of the burn for left over tissue that will become a scurf later. I would never recommend having a Vet dehorn an adult goat. Many years ago I made that wrong choice, and I don't think the vet used good judgment either. It exposed the sinus cavity which is connected to the horns. It took a long time to heal shut. Needed care daily with spray and keep the flies out. Really, please don't anyone do this. It would be better just to meat the poor animal if you really can't stand the horns. Thanks


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Acctually theres quite a few people that have gotten it with the paste

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

My wethers are dehorned because its what the breeder does. I will if we ever have any wether kids but I prefer horns. Goats are supposed to have horns IMO.


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## CanucksStar-17 (May 3, 2013)

A couple years ago we had a goat who had horns and she killed a pregnant mother with 4 babies, by spearing the Mum in the belly! We never have problems with wild animals because the barn is closed in and to close to the house! We also don't have problems with Dogs because only two neighbors have dogs one is old and doesn't go anywhere and the other neighbor's dogs are fenced in and no way to get out! We have had to many goats getting speared by goats who have horns!!! So for us it isn't a good idea!!!


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