# Okay dairy people - evaluate these girls for me



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

So I'm looking at these girls for sale ... I know who I like and who I dont like, and why. But curious to hear your evaluation of them, as you have far more experience than I do re dairy does.

Flora (I dont have an age on her yet)



















Her daughter Lotti










Derryth (3 yrs)



















Her daughter Angelina










Derryth's sister (from the same dam) Antonietta










And an unrelated doe Dalila


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

not a fan of Flora -- just not enough good going for her 

is it the ground or is Lotti sloped? 

Derryth has her udder going for her -- again the slope of her back could be from the ground and how she is standing

Angelina isnt bad -- but no udder but she is better then Lotti from the pictures


Antonietta is one of the better does I can see 

of the Junior does I like Dalila the best


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

Hmm..dont know too much about Toggs. But it looks to me like they are all pretty steep rumped, and not the greatest attachments on those udders. The jr does look ok, but being as they are related to the sr does I would be worried about them having the same loose udders. The first doe is probably my least favorite. Pretty rough around the edges, decent depth of body depending on her age, poor rear leg angulation and not only is her udder loose but it is also pretty low from her vulva and the teats are small and not placed at a great spot ESPECIALLY due to their size.. The next doeling needs a better picture..not a flattering shot..so I wont comment as some of the faults seen might just be posture, the 3rd doe is pretty nice, her udder has a much more attractive structure, however is still looks a little low and weaker (although much better than the first doe) attachments and nice sized teats, nice depth of body for a 3yo, still pretty steep rumped and a little light on condition (but this may mean she milks like a cow). What is your purpose for buying? If you are wanting a show goat, I would leave all of them. If you are just wanting a family milker my picks would be Daryth and Dahlia..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

For what its worth, here are my thoughts on them. 

I dont like Flora for her body and udder conformation - and I think her daughter Lotti has inherited her mother's weak points. 

Derryth has one of the best udders I have seen, and that excites me. She is standing terribly and I think stood differently she would be a whole lot more attractive. I think her daughter Angelina for the most part is a carbon copy of her mum, I'm waiting for better udder pics of her. 

Antoinette I like for her frame and conformation although it is a shame she lacks the depth and wedge of the others. Again waiting for udder pics.

Dalila I think is a very promising, very dairy little doe kid. 

J-Basqo - I'm located in Australia, and we just dont have the standards that you have in your dairy goats. The fact is, these are actually show goats, from one of the top breeders in the country. The steep rumps and poor udder conformation is pretty standard in this country - in fact, Derryth has one of the BEST udders I have seen. Also, they are British Alpines, not Toggs. You would call them a Sundgau(sp?) Alpine. 

Yes, I'm after show does in these, not just family milkers.


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

Good to see you Keren!!

So, how many can you get? lol I like Derryth and Dalila the best. Then Angelina and Antonietta. Like you said...Derryth udder looks pretty good for show stock over in Aussie and Dalila looks really promising...she's pretty nice structurally.


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## Herebegoats (Dec 30, 2009)

Ok first off, what are you looking for? Potential show animal? Back yard milker for producing milk for the table? Registered stock to sell? 

If you are looking for anything show worthy these animals do not have it. Tooo many structural problems. For one thing Derryth and Flora have no front end at all. Their front legs are placed way to far forward, there is no depth of heart, no extension of the brisket. Why is this important? When you have a doe that is pregnant you need that strength and area in the chest to support heart and lungs when there is an additional burdon of babies. 

Flora has very little rear udder attachment to speak of. Even going dry.

All are very steep rumped. Rumps that are too steep can predispose animals to kidding problems.

Toplines are very poor, they all look "downhill". The natural carriage of a dairy goat should be flowing upwards....an uphill stance and carriage.

Antoinetta also looks to have very splayed toes and is weak in both front and rear pasterns.

Derryth has a decent udder but she has so many other structural problems I would just be afraid to "go there". Look at how she has to park herself out in the front, standing naturally. The front legs should ideally be placed just under the withers. And her rump is the most steep out of all of the does pictured.

The best animal there IMHO is Dalia, the kid.

I am really not trying to sound mean here at all. But too many new people are taken advantage and spend $$ on goats that just will not meet their expectations in the future.....

Kelley


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## Herebegoats (Dec 30, 2009)

Attached is a photo of an ideal dairy goat. This is the 2005 Lamancha National Champion. Yes I know it is an extreme thing to pick out a national champion against everyone else's goats.

I also pictured another doe (sungau lamancha) that sort of epitomizes the proper carriage and uphill stance of show quality dairy goat. Also note where the front legs are placed, the apperance of a proper brisket and width throughout the chest floor....

Kelley


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

Herebegoats, Keren is in Australia...their quality doesn't match our quality here in the States. I don't think any Aussie goats would come close to touching Slice...she's a gorgeous doe. :drool:


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

I like Dalila's overall conformation best. I don't know how her udder will be when she is bred, but I think she has the best conformation.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

Keren knows plenty about show goats :wink: 



I agree with keren about her choices too. :thumb: the second does udder is much better


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## Herebegoats (Dec 30, 2009)

Whoops, I did not see that she was from Australia. I have NO idea what goats are like there. But she asked for an honest evaluation for conformation so thats what I gave her. I do a lot of 4H judging around where I live and so explain these kind of things to kids all the time. 

Even is Australia does not have goats like Slice, isn't that something to strive towards?! :shrug: 

Kelley


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

Herebegoats said:


> Even is Australia does not have goats like Slice, isn't that something to strive towards?! :shrug:


Oh most definitely!! :greengrin:

I noticed something about Australian breed standards...it says about the topline: "Back strong, straight and horizontal or rising slightly to hips." So maybe over there they aren't supposed to be upstanding at the withers. :whatgoat:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Herebegoats said:


> But too many new people are taken advantage and spend $$ on goats that just will not meet their expectations in the future.....
> 
> Kelley


lol, I'm not new and I'm certainly not going to be taken advantage of. And I'm confident these girls will meet my expectations.



Herebegoats said:


> Even if Australia does not have goats like Slice, isn't that something to strive towards?!


Sure, but I'm not gonna get to that standard by leaving these particular does behind - they are some of the best I have seen offered for sale for a long while.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

I definitly like the doeling on the bottom and the doe before her.

But you just said it all Keren.


> they are some of the best I have seen _*offered for sale *_for a long while.


The best offered *for sale*. There could be better and bigger goats out there that are not for sale.


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

Dover Farms said:


> Herebegoats, Keren is in Australia...their quality doesn't match our quality here in the States. I don't think any Aussie goats would come close to touching Slice...she's a gorgeous doe. :drool:


In a couple months I should have Slice great-grandkids :greengrin: lol I agree that I think Dalila is the nicest,and of the milkers,Derryth


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## Herebegoats (Dec 30, 2009)

I would love to see an australian dairy goat standard. That would be interesting to see how it differs from that in the US. So are those goats that are pictured Alpine typed? They sort of looked like Alpines to me, or dark colored Toggenburgs. Or are they a totally different breed?

I know nothing of goats outside the US. lol

Kelley


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## Idahodreamer (Sep 19, 2009)

The two last girls there are the better of the bunch.... The second older doe has an ok looking udder. 
 You'll have to let us know which one's you picked, Keren. 
yeah, a australian dairy goat standard would be interesting to see. 
Herebegoats, they hare british alpines, I think.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

i will keep this short cos im on my mobile in melbourne - but in any case deryth has been sold - i will probably buy dalila. You can find the australian breed standards online i think the website is www.dgsa.org.au if that doesnt work google dairy goat society australia. The british alpine is a very different goat to your french alpine much taller rangier and finer. There is only one breeder in the whole country who has goats that meet your american standard. She only has a handful of saanens left and i have been on the waiting list for a few years now - should get a kid this spring or next. Google buttara saanens


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

cool - I hope you get her :thumb:


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