# Dapple Boer Goat breeders a question for you



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Weird question.

I don't have a dapple colored boers on my place, nor do I know of any bloodlines that I know of with it in it. So, what are your thoughts on this new born buck kid and his coloring. If you look close, he has black splotches all over him, he is dark brown with black splotches? What would you call it, is he dappled perhaps? How do you tell?
Any thoughts are appreciated. He is out of a solid red Doe and a traditional Buck who's Dam is paint. A lot of paint genes are in his genetics.

My camera isn't picking up the black marks to well , but with visual, they stand out big time. He is darker brown as well in over all coloring. Wish the camera would show it as it is seen, hopefully you will see what I mean with the black coming through.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm wondering the same thing. I have a buckling that is dark red with very dark black spots. Dame is a T4 Scorpio daughter.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

We just recently got into dapples so I don't know all that much about them...  

However, we had a paint buck born with similar markings this year. His granddam has a spotted head, but that is the closest spotted goat in his lines. 

If any kid doesn't have white/tan/grey dapples, I wouldn't call them dapples. I consider a goat dappled when he/she has light spots... not black or dark brown. 

That's just my opinion though! Maybe someone else has a better answer.  He's really handsome BTW!


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## Frosty (Feb 13, 2010)

Very interesting subject and beautiful goats. Will be interesting to hear all the reports


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

Very interesting...I love looking at photos of the spots and dapples - especially here: http://www.maxboergoats.com/dappledandspotted.php

Unfortunately, they don't really offer much on the genetics, other than I can glean from what they do say that spot/dappled patterns are either polygenetic (involving many genes, some dominant and some recessive) or intermediate in a dominance series - which makes life difficult!

Dappled seems to be a pattern of eumelanin (which ranges black to red) and phaeomelanin (which ranges pale cream to red). Most of the dapples I see in photos are either milk chocolate (eumelanin) and dark red (phaemelanin) or black (eumelanin) and gold (phaeomelanin). Whether someone would 'call' your colored baby a dapple, there is little doubt in my mind that the same genes are in play as he has black (eumelanin) and dark red (phaeomelanin) in a pattern that looks very typical of dapples.

In most mammals, the balance of eumelanin and phaeomelanin is controlled by just two genes - 'A' and 'E'. A seems very well studied in goats - with about 20 identified discrete variations -- and it seems like the boers are pretty much all genotype aa (black) or AwAw or Awa (reds). E doesn't seem nearly as well understood. In rabbits and guinea pigs (whose genetics I know a whole lot better than goats - lol) patches of eumelanin and phaeomelanin (called harlequin or tortoiseshell) are caused by an E-allele. Wonder if the same is true for goats?

incidentally -- if I could get that color/pattern on a fiber goat I would be very happy!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know what he would be considered Pam, but he's a hunk!

Crossroad Boers: Those are gorgeous babies!

neubunny: They have some beautiful goats, I want to sit down and look through their website when I have a chance 
We are getting a new doeling at the end of May who is dappled/spotted, her dam is Nubian and her sire is a son of a Max's Boer goat buck. I can't seem to find the grandsire's pic on line but I know he was spotted, and so is this doeling's sire <red w/white spots>. The dam is also from spotted or dappled genes she's black and white. 
We can't wait to get the doeling


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks everyone. :grouphug: I agree crossroads boers, your goats are very nice as well. This is the first time, I have ever seen so many black marks on a kid from my herd, usually it is just a couple spots here and there, not all over..

This must be some sort of color pattern because, I see crossroads boers has a few of them as well. Maybe we should start a new color code HeHe. :laugh:It is a beautiful color combination that is for sure. 
Neubunny, that is a lot of info, thanks, so all these kids pictured with this pattern, are some sort of dapples then? I wonder if, I breed him to a dapple Doe, if I would get dapple kids, the genes are very dappled limited in his pedigree history though.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for your compliments everyone! I love that little bucklings color too!

Here is some info I copied off of MAX Boer goats website...it might help.

_"First generation full blood spotted and dappled goats are cropouts. A cropout is an animal with a sire and dam who both appeared to have been non-spotted. There are multiple genetic reasons that may cause a goat to be a cropout, originating from recessive spotted lineage. Sometimes solid-colored goats throw cropout spots or dapples because some spotting patterns are recessive genes that are not necessarily expressed unless the relevant allele is inherited from both parents. Other times a gene may be a dominant or incomplete dominant, but so minimally expressed that the goat looks solid but can pass flashy color on to its offspring.

The spots and dapples in the Boer goat are genetic throwbacks. First generation spots or dapples are a rare phenomenon, an unexpected occurrence.These animals will produce some spots; however, they will not produce the quantity of spots or dappling that an animal generations deep in spots or dapples will produce. It is with these first and second- generation animals that a base must be built in order to acquire spots or dapples on a more regular basis. From experience we have found there are several bloodlines with a "common thread" that will work when developing the spotted genetics."_

I think it is definitely a possibility that your buckling could produce spots/dapples if he is bred to a dappled doe...but not likely bred to any other color.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hey thanks so much,that did help a lot.


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