# do dogs mess with the goats out on trails?



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I was thinking it might be fun to have a pack goat and go hiking more often. What happens when you come across a dog on the trail? Do the goats startle and try to get away? Are the dogs usually aggressive towards the goats?


----------



## wintergreen (Apr 4, 2013)

I took my goat babies for walks last summer, in parks with leash laws. The large dogs would look at them very curiously and want to stop to investigate. There were some little dogs that barked and strained against the leash. The babies glued themselves to my legs for both types of dogs.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You want your pack goats to startle to you not away. Most will do so naturally with little work. Most dogs are curious not aggressive. So far I've never run into any problems on the trail. People tend to courteous with their dogs and willing to keep them under control. The danger is not dogs who have never seen goats before, it is dogs who have killed before and most dog owners who let their dogs run and cause trouble don't take them hiking and camping with them.


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Ive wanted to take one or two goats on the trails here. But I've held back because of fear of dogs and stupid people. Lots of people I'm sure will let their dogs go right up to my goats and scare the heck out of them if not hurt them , and i can't be responsible for my actions after that happens……Its just not worth the worry or the chance IMO .


----------



## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks for asking Katherine. I've wondered the same thing. I just have read recently....somewhere :scratch: about a dog "deterrent" silent whistle. Grrr...I can't find it now. I know... I was reading about Packing Goats. Anyway, when you blow this whistle, it hurts their ears and sends them the other direction. The article said, it is also used for training....to discipline for bad behavior. Anyone have info on this?? Jill.....? I thought it sounded like a good idea, in theory....but I also wondered how the Goats would react! Really....wonder if it would work on Coyotes! I'm going to keep trying to find where I read this. :type:


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Dog Dazer, yes they do work and the more aggressive the dog the more it hurts their ears. It also has the cool effect that people think you're getting ready to tazer their dogs and come running :lol: http://www.safepetproducts.com/dog-dazer-ii-ultrasonic-dog-deterrent.html#.VJPmp14Ag


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Most dogs will be excited to see a goat and run up to it. The problem comes in when the goat tries to flee. Even a goat thats bonded is most likely going to try and run away from the dog if it runs up on it even when its next to you. So I would recommend a leash for your goat and a small club like a billy stick. Ive trained Legion to present his horns over his instinct to run. But if he is surprised, which happened this year and the rendy, he ran when a dog came outta no where and chased him. I had to yell and hit the dog to draw his attention. The problem is, most dog owners go without leashes and tend to think its funny when their dog chases something.


----------



## SeventeenFarms (Dec 10, 2013)

I have the same concerns re dogs scaring goats, etc. I agree that it depends on the dog and the owner. I have friends who bring their dog over and the goats and dog get along through the fence- although I have never let them out with it, as I have seen the dog get out of control at times when hes been brought over. Related, I was riding my horse and was on the street for a little bit in a tiny neighbor hood when a woman thought it'd be neat to let her dog out of the house unleashed and run up to me and my horse- my horse spooked. Natural instinct when a dog comes running and barking. After that exp, I dont take chances with loose dogs (leashed is fine) with my animals - horse, goats, etc. Just my experience. Just never know if a dog will be friendly or aggressive. I stay conservative.


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Dog Dazer, yes they do work and the more aggressive the dog the more it hurts their ears. It also has the cool effect that people think you're getting ready to tazer their dogs and come running :lol: http://www.safepetproducts.com/dog-dazer-ii-ultrasonic-dog-deterrent.html#.VJPmp14Ag


I want it :wahoo: I want it :leap: I want it !:clap: 
Don't tase me bro&#8230;&#8230;...i mean dog :wink: 
Awesome Jill , thanks :hi5:


----------



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you for giving me lots to think about. I know that running is bad, which was why I wondered. Are there any good sites about training goats or should I just read the forum here?


----------



## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Yes, that is the one Jill! :hi5: Thank you! I wonder how it affects other critters?

Katherine, Here is good.....but I'm really enjoying this site too: http://www.workinggoats.com/ :wink:


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Naunnie said:


> Yes, that is the one Jill! :hi5: Thank you! I wonder how it affects other critters?
> 
> Katherine, Here is good.....but I'm really enjoying this site too: http://www.workinggoats.com/ :wink:


Well , if you use it and notice a following of birds and chipmunks&#8230;.bring some seeds , toss and run  Or if you end up with a huge moose following you , your in trouble , thats all i can say :hug:


----------



## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Oh! Moose...now that's a thought! :laugh::thumbup:


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Like this one?


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

If i saw that coming at me i'd faint :shocked:


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I just introduced many different dogs to Legion, here on the property where he feels safest. With the dog owners present and myself, it didnt take to long to train him. Having horns and knowing it, helps. Its instinct.


----------



## Halkatla (Oct 19, 2014)

I dont know if you have it over there in the US, but here in Norway there's a spray (kinda like a pepper spray) for warding off agressive dogs. It has a very strong pepperminty sort of liquid, and a loud sound. Apparently its strong enough to break up dogs fighting each other, and the range is a few meters so you can use it from a distance. Im using it when I walk my little dog, just in case.. it gives a nice feeling of safety


----------



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Interesting. I bet spraying a dog with pepper spray would make an owner mad. I've found after my recent incident with dogs, I have little tolerance for them. I think I'm going to see what I can teach my mini lamancha wether, just so I can get a feel for it. He's hornless and small, so I don't know how I'll feel about actually taking him out, but it'd be good practice and we have woods.

So you train them on a leash like a dog?


----------



## J-TRanch (Jan 31, 2014)

I would be cautious of all dogs...though I would be even if I was walking my own dog as well. If you come up to a dog without a leash on and they start towards you, I would do whatever I could to get them away. If they hurt your animals, the dogs owner is liable for all damage done even if it's a death. Sounds like a fun thing to go do! I would!


----------



## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

TDG-Farms said:


> I just introduced many different dogs to Legion, here on the property where he feels safest. With the dog owners present and myself, it didnt take to long to train him. Having horns and knowing it, helps. Its instinct.


I'm pro horn. Very interested to hear about your training techniques!


----------



## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

You can't go hiking with your goats unprepared. I take a walking staff with me that has a metal cap on the bottom that is cone shaped. One poke and you have elevated the danger equation in the dogs mind and he will back off.
I also have poppers hanging from my walking staff. The poppers are the kind that have two strings on them so you can tie the popper to a door so when the door is opened it pops startling the person that opened the door.
I just grab the popper string and pull. The popper is quit loud and startles the dog. The last line of defence is bear spray.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

The fear of dogs is not a good reason to keep your goat home in my opinion, but being prepared for a dog encounter is essential. Most dogs are just curious, but the odd one is aggressive, and most dogs will chase if your goat runs. I have never carried a dog dazer, pepper spray, or a stick, but these are all excellent suggestions. I always carry a leash for each goat unless I'm walking the entire herd (in which case I bring my LGD along instead). I keep my eyes and ears open for people coming down the trail and I grab ahold of my goat(s) before we get close. If they have a dog, I call out and warn them of my presence so they have time to leash it if it's loose. I usually get off the trail and let them pass since it's usually easier to drag a dog past a goat than the other way around. I would not hesitate to beat, kick, throw rocks, or pepper spray an aggressive dog. I don't care if the owner does get mad! People should keep their dogs under control. Keeping your goat from running is the most important thing you can do to protect him--and keep in mind that you _are_ his protector. Now go out there and have fun walking your goat!


----------



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Those are all great ideas. I've started showing my wether, Goober, back and he's already got it down. I'm not quite sure if he'd follow me around, so I might try it in the woods we have. He follows me all over the yard. He's half dog I think. Such a sweetie.


----------



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Oh and I'm going to try to teach him not to run from dogs using my sister's dog. The dog isn't aggressive, but we'll be sure to have them both under control.


----------



## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Billy my pack goat knows where safety is. You need to be aware that packs on your goat will hit you in the butt every time. That is why I have a stout walking staff. More than once my staff has saved me from a fall. When I am fly fishing with billy I can't help but laugh. Both billy and I are standing in they creek transfixed by a fly floating in the water


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Damfino said:


> The fear of dogs is not a good reason to keep your goat home in my opinion, but being prepared for a dog encounter is essential. Most dogs are just curious, but the odd one is aggressive, and most dogs will chase if your goat runs. I have never carried a dog dazer, pepper spray, or a stick, but these are all excellent suggestions. I always carry a leash for each goat unless I'm walking the entire herd (in which case I bring my LGD along instead). I keep my eyes and ears open for people coming down the trail and I grab ahold of my goat(s) before we get close. If they have a dog, I call out and warn them of my presence so they have time to leash it if it's loose. I usually get off the trail and let them pass since it's usually easier to drag a dog past a goat than the other way around. I would not hesitate to beat, kick, throw rocks, or pepper spray an aggressive dog. I don't care if the owner does get mad! People should keep their dogs under control. Keeping your goat from running is the most important thing you can do to protect him--and keep in mind that you _are_ his protector. Now go out there and have fun walking your goat!


Although i whole heartedly agree with you , its easier said then done , at least here anyways. People are more arrogant and bold to say their dog has just as much reason to be off leash as my goats. And , secondly , the trail isn't meant for goats. Sure it doesn't actually say that , but its all argumentative to some people. Then you get the people with animal aggressive dogs and they blindly don't see that. I so would love to take a goat or two on a light hike , but sadly its just not worth the hassle. Me being me , would most definitely stick up for my goats and my rights , but dealing with the people who are just there to argue , i don't do well with , lol&#8230; I do know of a horse person who takes a goat with them on the trails and will run off or over any dog who acts aggressively towards the goat. There is too much of a chance of my goats running off from being scared and threatened even if trained not to and being killed then what its worth IMHO. I don't think you can completely change the fact that they are prey animals and their instinct is to flee. Others may not agree and i totally respect that. But , for me , just not worth the worry


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

And the M worm and other things my goats can pick up and not to mention the harmful or poisonous plants they could grab and ingest before you even knew it.
Im too worried about the what ifs i guess…..


----------



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I'm paranoid too, Laura, especially lately.  I'm just training him for fun now. We'll see if I ever get up the nerve to take him out on a real hike. I do want to get an alpine baby just to raise up to be a pack goat. Or maybe I'll just get a dog kicking donkey to bring out with me. Lol.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I dont hike with or without my goats lol..Its not for everyone! But one things from reading this thread that I suggest is keep in mind that we each are responsable for our animals we walk...whether dog or goat and it is equally important to keep in mind that not everyone will be and have a plan inplace...Like fivemoremiles suggested, who has steps taken from a light "get back" to "youre going down" lol..If your goat is not ready to go solo, keep a leash on him....know his limits ect..


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Funny how we all have different feelings about what's risky. I feel safer with my goats on the trail than leaving them home because on the trail they're under my direct control. When they're at home they're still vulnerable to all the same dangers except that I'm not always with them to intervene. We have 40 acres that backs up to lots of wilderness, so predators and worm-carrying deer can come and go. My dog helps, and I keep the goats penned in an electric fence at night, but there's always a risk no matter what you do. I figure it's best to go forward, do what we enjoy while preparing for foreseeable incidents, and not let fear stop us. Every accident, injury, and illness we've dealt with so far has happened at home, and I'm certainly not going to let some snobby dog owner tell me I can't share a road or trail that I also pay taxes on. 

It's too bad the dog owners in your area are such jerks, Trickyroo. Around here they've all been really polite and usually apologetic if their dog so much as makes my goats raise their hackles. Some folks around here have even talked about getting rid of their dog and getting a goat for a hiking companion instead! Goats are generally easier to manage and aren't a risk to wildlife or a nuisance to other trail users. I personally find it much less stressful to walk a goat than a dog for those very reasons.


----------



## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

It is interesting ^^  I mean , I'm a big dog person ! But i respect others on the trail and i expect the same. I would never let any of my dogs off leash or go up to a horse or dog "just to say hi" . Ive been on both ends , on the horse when a dog would approach and on the ground with a bunch of my dogs on lead . I would respectfully move off the trail with my dogs and let the horse and rider pass unfrightened.
I was on a new trail once with my horse and out of the corner of my eye i saw two huge Dobermans flying towards us snarling. I was ready to face them cause running away wasnt a option cause of a busy road we had to cross , so i figured my best bet was to hopefully chase the dogs off or injure them , i would take either , just as long as my horse didn't get hurt. But anyway , the dogs came to a screeching halt and just stood there looking at us. My horse was terrified and so was i.
Apparently there was a electric fence stopping them , thankfully .
I so wish other people were as responsible with their dogs and motor bikes but lots aren't . Everyone things they have the "right of way".
Some people just don't understand their dogs body language and let their dogs go right up to your dogs even with your "please keep your dog back , thank you " response. Then they give you a dirty look , lol.
Ughhhh , Im happy to see a lot more people out with their dogs now .
Its so good for the dogs , they need to get out of the "four walls" of their house and property. Its just the people who need educating.
Im off my soap box now :sigh: Im just so afraid of my goats getting hurt i guess….but i envy all of you who do go for walks with their goats , just so you know


----------



## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

I teach all of our goats to come to me when encountering a dog. I also take a hiking staff with me and am not afraid to get in front of our goats and threaten the dog very loud and menacingly. Most dogs will just turn around.

Also good is to have dangerous looking goats - aka horns, big, strong animals, preferably black - and to call to the dog owner that the goat will use its horns. Most owners will then try to get hold of their dog.

If you have one, taking your own dog with you on hikes, especially if it's a protective breed, will deter other dogs.

Teach your goats and learn how to stave of dogs yourself. Don't become hectic, but calm and growling. If you tell the dog "take one more step and you'll regret it" and MEAN it, the dog will read your body language correctly and believe you.

And last: take more than one goat out. Up to two or three goats they are more prone to bolting at a dog encounter. More than three and they will bunch up, circle the waggons, meaning horns out and stand their ground.

Goats are also very good at reading body language of predators. When they have some experience with dogs they will figure out in seconds if a dog can be bluffed off or if a serious defence is necessary. If you support them with giving them a rally point - yourself - and join in the defence, they will learn to use that.


----------



## Kupla (Aug 1, 2014)

I don't have experience taking my goats out but my town doesn't enforce leash laws and when I take my three little dogs out, biggest is nine pounds the other two are five and a half, I find that bowing up, shoulders back standing tall, can be enough to stop some dogs. Also yelling at loud growly ''hey!'' or ''no!'' helps. Most of the time there isn't an owner around because the dog is just wandering but if I see someone standing by I'll ask if it's their dog. A surprising number of people will step forward when you say you aren't afraid to kick and or smack their dog. There are some jerks out there who think it's funny but with the loose dogs I stand my ground.


----------



## snubbie (Apr 13, 2014)

The only purpose of my having goats is for hiking and packing.

Thus far, I've had no issues with dogs. Every dog encountered has had an owner nearby. Seeing goats on the trail here in NC is so utterly rare, well you're about as likely to see Santa Claus, so most hikers are blown away when they see us with our goats. 
On a recent warm weekend the trails were very busy. My daughter and I took our little guys on their first overnight camping trip. We encountered numerous people with dogs. I assume because of the busyness of the trails, all dogs encountered were leashed(per NF land regulations here in NC), as were our goats.
There were no issues but people were very polite and respectful about keeping their distance meaning keeping their dogs away from our goats.
I will say, hiking with three young goats on leashes is challenging to say the least! I prefer less traveled trails so they can hike along off leash. That busy weekend was a great learning/training time as they encountered numerous dogs and strangers, even groups of people and the fact they were on leads and thus forced to stay close to me during the various encounters.

Just get out and hike with your goats and have fun! Keep in mind things can happen, to our goats, our dogs, to us. If one is paranoid worried about something happening it probably best to stay home. I don't mean that as an insult, just that outings should be enjoyable.


----------



## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

I've had encounters with aggressive dogs (dogs that hunt goats and boar) on the trail before. In my area there are also a lot of irresponsible dog owners (some of whom are mean spirited or just careless) And often I am the deterrent (my family has raised Dobermans for over 50 years, and my father trains cage fighters, I don't really fear a whole lot. I also doesn't hurt that I am just under six feet tall and bear some resemblance to Xena warrior princess and have that kind of assertive type A "aggressive female" personality) because I know how to deal with those situations rather quickly and decisively. 

However, I have started hiking my goats WITH one of my dogs. Just so I can have a little back up if I need it. I find if I am hiking with BOTH that the mean spirited or really irresponsible dog owners on the trail are more likely to control their animals (because my dog is ALSO a dog and has the same equipment). And it doesn't hurt that my dog is a Doberman (she doesn't have to do much other than LOOK like she does, one time those breed stereotypes work for me instead of against) 

My goats have grown up playing with my dogs (when I just had the one bottle baby orphan, she was attached to my roommates rescued chihuahua and they would also hike together), so they don't have a tremendous fear of them (the prey animal instinct does kick in if they are startled by a strange one they don't know, but they tend to just attach themselves to my leg in those situations, which allows me the opportunity to manage the situation) the goats are pretty confident but I started hiking with "our own" dog recently and foud that has made a tremendous difference when we do encounter certain kinds of people and situations.


----------



## BlaqueUnicornAdventures (May 14, 2014)

Also, just as a fun thing -you know, for "visual continuity"- all of my girls are being bred to a Black and Tan LaMancha buck to hopefully produce little Goats that match the Dobermans! 

...I also thought it would be kinda entertaining to have the Black and Tan "DoberGoats" wear leather spike collars and have the dogs wear girly ones with bows... 

Clearly, I have a strange sense of humor.


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

LOL great post. And beautiful trail! Paradise indeed.


----------

