# Help! What is the dosage for Baking Soda?



## Buck Naked Boers

So I have a doe and her daughter who can't handle my pasture. I need to know how much exactly of the Baking soda and Oil and water? What is the dosage for bloating?

I have Olive Oil....
Baking Soda and Water.

Don't know how much to give. 

Should I mix it with honey for better taste?

Help!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Just offer a bowl of dry soda to them, most will eat what they need. If not, I just throw a few tbs' s of soda down them. Walk and elevate the front end, massage right side. 

If frothy bloat, I think it's like a cup of oil? Jill knows...


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## Buck Naked Boers

So a few Tbsp of Baking Soda....with water then? Could I put it with honey? No frothy bloat....so no oil.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I do a couple tablespoons, yes.I just open their mouth and pour it in dry, but you can drench it with water if you want.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Ok...I thought Honey might help it taste better. I don't have any molasses. Just thought drenching might get in her quicker. 
Should I give her some tums too?? I have that. I don't have any GASX


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## CecilandNellie

I have free choice baking soda for my girls. Some days they empty the bowl and some days hardly touch it. I think they know when they need it. I saw some one say no free choice for the boys, but my boys have it, too.

I have a good, free, supply of local honey which I use for them when I don't have molasses. They seem to like it just fine, I do wonder about the benefits of molasses vs. honey.


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## FloatnRockRanch

Any chance someone could confirm whether the boys should have baking soda free choice?? My does are with the buck and I just started giving it to them free choice after reading several forum posts saying they should have it. Anyone know for sure? Since they run together is it okay to still offer free choice? 

I know they are using it...but not sure who! I've filled it twice in just over a week.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I don't think they are supposed to have it. I thought I heard someone say it can cause or contribute to stone formation. I have a wether with calcium carbonate stones at this point...that is what we think. And so he is on a special diet....as is my other wether....just orchard grass and pasture! Of course minerals and salt and cobalt.....but not grain or anything else. 

He is going to have surgery to remove the stones this month....but it was a hard lesson to learn. We are getting him over his pnuemonia and then he will have surgery......but it is my understanding that bsoda isn't for bucks or wethers....

Am I wrong?


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## goathiker

Baking soda deactivates any UC remedies you might be using, AC etc. It also raises the PH of their system which can predispose them to stones.


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## goathiker

Orchard grass and pasture is an upside down diet. He needs calcium in some form. What is the PH of your water? That is your starting point.


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## goathiker

Did you have those stones tested? They were carbonate not phosphate? Did they look like gold spheres?


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## Buck Naked Boers

I thought baking soda wasn't something they were supposed to have...just forgot why.

Actually the treatment we were doing didn't work because his stonge are calcium...and per the univ vet nothing will desolve them...struvite stones yes but not calcium stones.

So surgery is planned in a couple wks. They do alot of these surgeries at the univ hospital so it is a good place to have them I guess.

They are trying to take calcium....or too much of it out of his diet. He had been on BOSS, Alfalfa pellets and goat grain....before just the hay/pasture diet. So yeah I learned from this no...grain, no BOSS, no alfalfa pellets.

PH of our water according to my hubby is 7.5.....

So what does that mean Jill? That was just a test we did....does it need to be a fancy test that you send off for results with? Or does that suffice? Not sure about this stuff.


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## Buck Naked Boers

We haven't tested the stones yet until surgery. But saw them on the cat scan. Doctor is suspicious they are calcium carbonate because of how they looked....showed up just like bones on a cat scan. So the doc is suspicious they are calcium.....will know for sure after surgery. 

He isn't blocked...we have caught this early so far.


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## Buck Naked Boers

They just showed up as spots in his bladder on the cat scan. But it was really clear he has them.....none in his urethra though.
Also showed a old fracture by his bottom which we didn't know about....must have been before we bought him.
And showed the pnuemonia/bronchitis....so very glad we had it done. The univ hospital at OSU is awesome....amazing prices on their tests....crazy cheap for a cat scan!


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## goathiker

7.5 is almost neutral, just a splash of vinegar would make it neutral. Calcium Carbonate stones are hereditary, diet doesn't do much for them in the long run. Ask for the stones after his surgery, I can help you more maybe. A lot of times it's just a thin layer of calcium surrounding the phosphate and, no, AC doesn't dissolve phosphate stones either, only stuvites. It's kind of like a little fairy tale everyone tells each other to make themselves feel better. Are they going to Marsupialize him?


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## Buck Naked Boers

Ok so neutral is good right? Assuming our water is pretty good. Unless there is a special test we should be using to test our water other than the one we bought.

So as far as the surgery....I just know they make a incision....is that what you mean? They go in a clean out the bladder. Since he isn't blocked they don't have to cut the urethra I don't think. I spoke to the surgeon today, really nice guy. OSU performs this surgery a few times a week apparently. Even on blocked bucks. So it isn't actually a very serious surgery normally.

Because our goat has some respiratory stuff going on...they ideally want him clear of that before surgery. He is on anbiotics and needs to be off them for a week before surgery to make sure he is ok. So will know more next week. 

Yes I will ask for the stones....that is a good idea!


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## FloatnRockRanch

Okay so now I'm a little confused on the calcium. Isn't that part of the problem with does when pregnant, they need plenty alfalfa because its high in calcium to even out the low calcium high phosporus content in grain? So your buck should be okay with grain if you are trying to lower the calcium intake?

Oh golly goats are so much more difficult then horses and cows! But they sure grow on ya!:lovey:

Do all bucks need to be on some kind of UC treatment? Think I'm going to need to get another mineral feeder for the does stall and maybe just give them a small amount at night when they get locked up. Is this what you would recommend Goathiker?


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## Buck Naked Boers

I'm a little confused too....all I know is the vet said get him off everything other than hay and pasture......so Jill what say you?


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## goathiker

When they marsupialize, they do cut the urethra and turn it backwards to basically make them a girl that dribbles constantly. It's a horrid thing and after staying with some people who had one done something like that, I would choose to put the animal down. This poor goat was miserable and in pain all the time. 

I would send a stone to Caine Teaching Hospital. They specialize in goats as well, just for a second opinion.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Oh no they aren't going to do that. Just take out the stones. One reason we are having it done now....before he is blocked. 

Ok yes we can send a stone there. Always good to get a second opinion. I do feel like OSU is really well versed in goats. They see alot of them.....

I was pleased they knew about Baycox....which it seems other vets don't seem to know much about.....


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you Jill for this info on the place to send the stone to.


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## goathiker

Okay, this is a difficult thing. I would be willing to work with you individually floatenrock. My boys are eating alfalfa and pasture. NOBODY gets baking soda unless they need it. Providing it free choice disrupts the natural cud chewing process that creates their own. They get used to having it and then will bloat because the dish is empty and they can't make their body work right anymore.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I worry if I put my wethers back on alfalfa pellets....my one wether would get more stones....

Its so weird how one thing works for one person and another person does something different.....ugh. wish it were more simple...but I am learning goat raising isn't always that easy....


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## goathiker

The difference is that OSU sees a lot of goats from different walks, Caine is the pack goat pet specialist.


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## goathiker

It is weird BUT remember, you're raising African goats and mine are Swiss.


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## FloatnRockRanch

Completely makes sense! with that knowledge it makes me think its the buck using it because he eats like a pig and looks bloated all the time, however it never seems to bother him. He doesnt chew his cud like the does, they take lots of time and chew chew chew. He chews short little spurts. It worried me at first so I would brush him and massage his gut to make sure he wasnt bloated. Now I just know it's how he is...

Baking soda goes away. So much better for them to have healthy bodies that work the way they are supposed to not reliant on stuff we THINK they may need. Thanks for the information!


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## Buck Naked Boers

But my animals aren't pack goats. So they dont' specialize in Boers probably right?

Yeah I know we are the farthest thing from an African climate here....lol. Thus the coats get put on when it is freezing.....it helps them cope with the cold. Seems to make a difference for them.

Thanks Jill. I will check out Caine for a second opinion.

I haven't ever given baking soda to my boys.....should I be doing that? They don't ever seem to need it. And because it tends not to be good for them I should not do that right?


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## Buck Naked Boers

Esp in light of his calcium stones....


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## melbah1

goathiker said:


> Orchard grass and pasture is an upside down diet.


What do you mean by this? I have my dairy does on orchard grass and pasture. I've been having some trouble with a couple of their rumens.


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## ksalvagno

Higher in phosphorus than calcium.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thats good though right? The vet univ doc alluded to the fact it is very difficult to get a 'perfect' diet. I supplement my girls diet with grain and alfalfa pellets, but the boys need to be lower in calcium I believe....?

I don't know how people get their animals on a perfect diet.....I've tried and it doesn't seem to work.


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