# planting brambles on a fenceline- crazy?



## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Hi folks! Sometimes I think I'm reinventing the wheel with gardening projects. WHY? Maybe some of you have experimented with planting raspberries or blackberries on a fence line or have advice. 

I come from a holistic, permaculture, more reward/less work approach. My gardens are diverse and a little wild and productive. I want to minimize stress of weeds and runners. I also don't want awkward stuff to mow around. 

I'm considering planting raspberries and thornless blackberries just out of reach of grazing through the fence (we have standard woven wire field fence with a hot wire on top). I figure I can mow around the row pretty easily, goats and sheep will browse down runners while getting good nutrition on their side, and we would harvest from one side. I would like to do the clever V-trellis (sometimes called California V-trellis) technique on the harvest side to make harvest and pruning very easy. I've never used this before but always wanted to. We will lose some harvest to grazing and chickens, but I consider that a good, fair share thing. The thinner plants and fewer berries rotting on the ground (chickens) will help keep spotted wing drysophila pressure at bay.

Will we regret this? I've been considering it for YEARS and want to try it!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can always take them out if you don't. I have wild blackberries growing and I hate the prickers.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Raspberries and blackberries are among my favourite berries. Picking without bending over is a bonus. They will take a few years to properly establish, but are generally hard to kill. Do confirm that the blackberries will grow in your area.
V-trellis IS a clever idea. It pulls the fruiting canes to the side so the new canes can shoot straight up. Due to space restrictions, I used a different system for my raspberries when I lived in Calgary. When I moved out here to Vancouver Island I continued with the same system because it was working for me. I have been thinking about converting to a modified V-trellis, but that project has not made it to the top of the to do list yet.

If blackberries work in your area, you might also consider boysenberries and loganberries. All three have more of a vine than a cane structure and cannot hold themselves up as well as raspberries can.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Thanks! Blackberries do grow here in central WI. We have some planted by the previous owner in a bad location. (They also planted a 75' row of summer and fall bearing raspberries intermingled-- those have been mowed down. The other added benefit to this system is that the soil will be rich along the fence line- less amending.

I'll look into boysenberries and loganberries. We are putting in more currants, blueberries and nanking cherries (love those) this year too. We need to find some good shade tolerant not-just-ornamental-perennials too. 
@Mike at Capra Vista, do you have SWD up there? Growers here are hit hard by them and giving up on tender fall fruits.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Last year's golden raspberries and our very first boysenberries. We did not get many boysenberries last year and the chickens got half of them. The vines were about 4' off the ground and the chickens learned to jump up at the berries. Fun to watch but we did miss out on quite a few berries.

I planted a loganberry last spring so we should get our first berries this summer.


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> View attachment 225100
> 
> Last year's golden raspberries and our very first boysenberries. We did not get many boysenberries last year and the chickens got half of them. The vines were about 4' off the ground and the chickens learned to jump up at the berries. Fun to watch but we did miss out on quite a few berries.
> 
> I planted a loganberry last spring so we should get our first berries this summer.


All the golden raspberries I planted were duds...The black raspberry plants did well, but I have no idea if I'll get fruit from them. I have two loganberries. I have two hardy kiwi plants as well. I hope they grow well this summer. There's a forbidden patch of berry plants planted a few years ago unknowingly planted in an area thick with poison ivy. Oops!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Back in the 1960's, there was a movement to have "natural" fences. They convinced farmers to plant Multi-floral roses, various fruit plants with thorns, etc. The theory
was that they would take the place of fencing and be more natural for birds, etc. Plus the livestock wouldn't go through the brambles. What a nightmare- We are still
fighting those darn pokey plants. The stems are so thick- it takes a bulldozer to get rid of them. 

In my opinion, it is better to have an area for your bushes and keep them controlled so they don't take over and destroy your fence line.


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> Back in the 1960's, there was a movement to have "natural" fences. They convinced farmers to plant Multi-floral roses, various fruit plants with thorns, etc. The theory
> was that they would take the place of fencing and be more natural for birds, etc. Plus the livestock wouldn't go through the brambles. What a nightmare- We are still
> fighting those darn pokey plants. The stems are so thick- it takes a bulldozer to get rid of them.
> 
> In my opinion, it is better to have an area for your bushes and keep them controlled so they don't take over and destroy your fence line.


That's why there are many cedar, osage orange, and locust trees here.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Yes- osage and locusts were what I thought of first too- wide and thorny dense growing thickets. No way! Some were beautiful (weedy) woven willow. That's not what I'm going for. This is just a row of brambles that can be cut with hand shears and tended regularly.  The intent of harvest is quite different than a barricade with this application.


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

littleheathens said:


> Yes- osage and locusts were what I thought of first too- wide and thorny dense growing thickets. No way! Some were beautiful (weedy) woven willow. That's not what I'm going for. This is just a row of brambles that can be cut with hand shears and tended regularly.  The intent of harvest is quite different than a barricade with this application.


I like the idea of planting things you can eat and enjoy. As long as it has a practical purpose, I think planting what you'd like is a great idea. I was thinking about lining the outside of my duck run with berry plants to make the outer perimeter more cottage core looking.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

littleheathens said:


> Thanks! Blackberries do grow here in central WI. We have some planted by the previous owner in a bad location. (They also planted a 75' row of summer and fall bearing raspberries intermingled-- those have been mowed down. The other added benefit to this system is that the soil will be rich along the fence line- less amending.
> 
> I'll look into boysenberries and loganberries. We are putting in more currants, blueberries and nanking cherries (love those) this year too. We need to find some good shade tolerant not-just-ornamental-perennials too.
> @Mike at Capra Vista, do you have SWD up there? Growers here are hit hard by them and giving up on tender fall fruits.


I have blueberries - first small crop last year.
I have black and white currents. These produced really well last year - their second crop.
Then just for self punishment, I also have gooseberries - because the thorns on all our wild blackberries are just not enough pain every year. Had a great crop of gooseberries but I was not paying attention and the birds got them all.
We are also lucky to have a lot of wild Saskatoons growing here. The crop really varies from year to year. I really like the taste but it does take a long time to fill an ice cream pail.
Of course, being on the West Coast, we have tons of wild blackberries. Filling an ice cream pail with these is easy. Separating the sweet berries from the still sour berries is harder.
I also planted various grape cuttings along a fence by our driveway. Got a few pea sized grapes last fall. It turns out that goats love grapes - fruit, leaves, stems. I am planning to amend my fencing in that area.
I should look around for Nanking Cherries. I enjoyed the one I had in Calgary.

Sorry, I have no idea what SWD is. That probably means it is not an issue here, but I am still a newcomer.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

SWD = spotted wing drysophila. It's a tiny fruit fly that lays eggs in ripening fruit so the larva eats up the perfectly ripe fruit. It builds up over the season so the late season soft fruits are most vulnerable. I know they have been on the south shore of Lake Superior for many years. Keeping things aerated, picked well, and cleaning up dead fruit (chickens) should help immensely. 

I ordered plants yesterday. The only nankings I could find were on Etsy...we'll see how that goes. I also got some lingonberries for groundcover around blueberries, and some low/spreading aronia. We removed honeyberries because nobody liked picking them and they took up sun so I have some new space to fill. Our Juneberries are usually underwhelming. Nannyberries too, they spread like crazy but we just don't pick and eat them. Remarkably, goats don't go after the nannyberries either? 

Any groundcover suggestions that are not bad for goats are welcome. Either along the berry/fence row or elsewhere.


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## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

okay so first off i find this crazy!!! why would you plant blackberries on purpose. haha
but i live in oregon and they are everywhere i mean you can mow it over, spray it mow it some more and they wont die.
i have my does in a pasture where we mowed over the blackberries and i did spray the poison oak. bad thing is i dont have much grass since it couldnt grow with the blackberries but the blackberries are food for the goats and every time it sprouts again the goats eat them.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

littleheathens said:


> SWD = spotted wing drysophila.


Yes, I should have figured that out from your head post. 
We certainly have them here by the truck load but I have not noticed them specifically. We have lots of things eating our fruit, starting with raccoons and ending with tiny insects. One day a few years ago, before I fenced my garden, I saw a raccoon bending and holding a raspberry cane and munching on the berries. Beside her, lined up along the cane were were her four little kits also helping themselves to berries. It would have made a great picture, had I been in a position to take one.

We had honeyberries in Calgary. I liked them for the early fruit. A lot of berries per bush, but tiresome to pick. 
Had to look up nannyberries. I have not seen them before.
Juneberries = Saskatoons = Serviceberries: My goats love them to death. Literally. Several bushes in my pasture are now just collections of dead sticks.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

daisymay said:


> okay so first off i find this crazy!!! why would you plant blackberries on purpose. haha
> but i live in oregon and they are everywhere i mean you can mow it over, spray it mow it some more and they wont die.
> i have my does in a pasture where we mowed over the blackberries and i did spray the poison oak. bad thing is i dont have much grass since it couldnt grow with the blackberries but the blackberries are food for the goats and every time it sprouts again the goats eat them.


Curious, do the goats not eat the poison oak?


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

When you even farther northerners refer to wild blackberries, I wonder if it's what we call "black caps," which are actually wild black raspberries, prolific here too. Which is it up there?


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## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Curious, do the goats not eat the poison oak?


not so much but they like walking in it, smelling it then saying hi. not so much fun. i for sure do not get all the poison oak as i get rashes all the time but its also everywhere. there were renters for years where i live so the only thing taken care of was mowing the yard when it got tall the rest not so much.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

littleheathens said:


> When you even farther northerners refer to wild blackberries, I wonder if it's what we call "black caps," which are actually wild black raspberries, prolific here too. Which is it up there?


No, these are not raspberries. These are the Himalayan blackberries. A very invasive species here in SW British Columbia (and Pacific NW US). Very hard to kill. Even Round-Up takes several applications to kill these blackberries. With arching vines that can reach 12m or more and re-root where it touches the ground, it can spread and take over an area rapidly. And thorns! You take your life in your hands if picking berries a little further in. How goats, who love them, manage to eat them without serious damage to themselves, still surprises me. I have had to fix many flat tires on my garden tractor because of blackberry thorns.


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## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> No, these are not raspberries. These are the Himalayan blackberries. A very invasive species here in SW British Columbia (and Pacific NW US). Very hard to kill. Even Round-Up takes several applications to kill these blackberries. With arching vines that can reach 12m or more and re-root where it touches the ground, it can spread and take over an area rapidly. And thorns! You take your life in your hands if picking berries a little further in. How goats, who love them, manage to eat them without serious damage to themselves, still surprises me.
> View attachment 225291


that best describes them! when i moved i didnt even know there was a broken down fence going up the driveway with all the blackberries. visitors say keep them they like the berries but they dont deal with the plant itself. i still have a hillside that is all blackberries and posion oak with a few thistle trying to grow....


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## Emrcornerranch (Jun 13, 2020)

littleheathens said:


> When you even farther northerners refer to wild blackberries, I wonder if it's what we call "black caps," which are actually wild black raspberries, prolific here too. Which is it up there?


I have blackberries amd black raspberries growing wild here. I believe also "dew" berries according to a plant app, but I have never seen them with a ripe berry to try yet. Most people I have talked to around here (Missouri) have zero idea we have raspberries. They always try to correct me and argue they are blackberries. Very different flavor, vine, and the berry is hollow. They are REALLY missing out! I dislike the wild blackberries but LOVE the black raspberries very much. I was so surprised I'd never heard of them before. They taste like the blue raspberry flavoring, and I slide down the side of a creek to pick them to eat when I see them. Becoming more of a hillbilly girl all the time! Who knows what'd I'd be like if I'd been raised in the countryside all my life?


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