# I need some experienced opinions please!!



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

Alright, so here's the deal. I purchased a buckling, Poet, in the spring (ND). He has phenomenal milking genetics on his sire's side (many years of ADGA and AGS Top ten wins for both dam and granddam) and his sire is no longer breeding so my guy and a half brother of his are all that is left of those genetics up here in Canada. I was SUPER excited to have had the opportunity to buy him and use him in the foundation of my little herd (I'm focusing on dairy here, but obviously want a very correct animal too). The ND breed up here in Canada is a work in progress especially now that the border is totally closed, so we have to work with what we have.

His front legs have always seemed less than perfect - a narrow-ish chest and he toes out a bit. But as he has gotten older his legs have developed more of a...bow? they bend inwards at the knee. I will post photos to describe it better.

I took my concerns to his breeder and she has been great. She ran the photos by some experienced friends of hers and they didn't seem to think it was a fault bad enough to pull his papers (which we had discussed). She has offered to buy him back at full price and she can use him on some of her juniors and see if it's something that he's passing along. Or I can keep him. I have a small herd, just 4 does currently. Breeding schedule aside (it would mess up my plans a bit!), and my own bias (I love the dude!!!) I would love some opinions. What would you do?

Baby pic


5-6 months


Current pics (9 months old)








I do have video of him walking, too, which I could post (just have to get it on to youtube first).

The rest of him (at 5-6 months)




What would you do?


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would give vitamin E. You are far enough north that most living things are deficient in it. His lack is causing him to develop Rickets. 
Try 100 iu every other day for 6 doses, then once a week at least during the winter. It could take a few weeks to work on his legs.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> I would give vitamin E. You are far enough north that most living things are deficient in it. His lack is causing him to develop Rickets.
> Try 100 iu every other day for 6 doses, then once a week at least during the winter. It could take a few weeks to work on his legs.


Rickets!! Ok, thank you. I was wondering if there was any way that this could be a deficiency of some sort. Vitamin E, not D?


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry, I meant D 
My daughter was waving a bottle of E in my face talking about her buckling at the same time lol.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> Sorry, I meant D
> My daughter was waving a bottle of E in my face talking about her buckling at the same time lol.


OK haha I was a slightly confused. Thank you much! I have a bottle of A&D on hand, do you think that would be sufficient or should I try to find just D?


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> I would give vitamin E. You are far enough north that most living things are deficient in it. His lack is causing him to develop Rickets.
> Try 100 iu every other day for 6 doses, then once a week at least during the winter. It could take a few weeks to work on his legs.


 Also, we just had the sunniest summer possibly on record with probably 2 or 3 days of clouds from June straight through til the end of Sept. Seems like a strange time for anything to get a vit D deficiency! But I'm not well versed on Rickets, and I'm finding very minimal info about it as it relates to goats online. I don't have a great vet nearby unfortunately but one I can call for emergencies.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> I would give vitamin E. You are far enough north that most living things are deficient in it. His lack is causing him to develop Rickets.
> Try 100 iu every other day for 6 doses, then once a week at least during the winter. It could take a few weeks to work on his legs.


Sorry more questions from me - I have done some digging and saw an older conversation about Vit D, and you were recommending giving them oral capsules. Is that what you'd recommend in this situation? Should I do a shot and then capsules through the winter or just capsules?


----------



## B Taylor (Nov 24, 2017)

This is not an uncommon thing for goats, especially bucks. However, the offspring will not be effected more than likely. Some ugly genetics of Billies will make beautiful bucklings and some pretty billies will make an ugly offspring. So, if you give him vitamin E, it is likely he will be fine.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would give the shot then start the gelcaps in a couple weeks. There are many factors that cause rickets, not the least of these is the sun is much weaker due to pollution, geoengineering, etc.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> I would give the shot then start the gelcaps in a couple weeks. There are many factors that cause rickets, not the least of these is the sun is much weaker due to pollution, geoengineering, etc.


Perfect, thanks. I was planning to give him the shot today, so glad to have confirmation on that!


----------



## Lunaroso (Oct 22, 2017)

step one: treat goat with appropriate vitamins
step two: become human leg model 

sorry i could not help myself haha.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

Lunaroso said:


> step one: treat goat with appropriate vitamins
> step two: become human leg model
> 
> sorry i could not help myself haha.


Bahaha! Thanks!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

Thanks again for opinions! I gave him the Vit A&D shot, and will continue to dose with vit D through the winter. Hopefully will see some improvement! Come spring I will shave him down and get a really good look at what's going on there. If it seems like it has helped and isn't looking like a hereditary problem, I'll use him on two of my does in spring and hope for the best!


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

@goathiker - how long do you think it might take to see any difference in his legs if it is indeed a vit D deficiency?

No change as of yet, we're a couple weeks in since the shot.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Honestly, he has to rebuild that bone. Most of the ones I've helped with have taken three to six months. 
Keep going, one bent leg is not conformational.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

goathiker said:


> Honestly, he has to rebuild that bone. Most of the ones I've helped with have taken three to six months.
> Keep going, one bent leg is not conformational.


@goathiker thanks...except it's not one bent leg, they are both wonky (in a the knee, toeing out). I took some video which I think might show the issue better. If you could take a look at it and tell me if you still think it looks like a deficiency I'd appreciate it! His breeder has a very goat-experienced vet and he thought it was unlikely to be a vit D deficiency.





(let me know if the video works, I have it set to unlisted on youtube but it should play with the direct link like that)


----------



## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Well besides his front legs and narrow chest I think he is a fine young buck


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I wish I had some advice to offer. Unfortunately, all I can say is that he sure does love you and your camera!


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> Well besides his front legs and narrow chest I think he is a fine young buck


He is a nice boy otherwise I think! I just really don't want to introduce a major fault into my program right off the bat (well, at any point in time really!), and he was quite a monetary investment. His breeder will fully refund him if I do decide I can't use him for breeding.



groovyoldlady said:


> I wish I had some advice to offer. Unfortunately, all I can say is that he sure does love you and your camera!


He does!! He's so sweet. That's one thing that I love best about him, he's friendly but super mellow and not at all pushy.


----------



## Mossyrock (Mar 21, 2017)

Hey just wanted to update in here! 2 months in since the Vit A+D shot and weekly D capsules and I have noticed a marked improvement!! So happy. He still toes out a bit but his legs are looking much straighter and his chest is even looking a bit wider.

Very happy to see improvement. I'm using him on 1 doe this season and hoping he doesn't pass on the wonky legs...I'm thinking it very likely was caused by a deficiency, though, so I'm hopeful it won't be hereditary.


----------



## B Taylor (Nov 24, 2017)

Yay!!! I know you're happy. Good luck with him!!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That is great!!!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Terrific to hear.


----------

