# Degenerative digestive system



## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

I have a 6 year old Alpine pack goat bought from NW Packgoats at Weippe, ID--wonderful goat, over 200 lbs., strong, powerful. Since about a month ago I noticed his hair was breaking off by the handfuls, he had no energy for playing, he was always at the back of the pack on walks. Last weekend he had bloat, but I got that resolved before I took him to local vet on Monday--blood tests inconclusive--suggested WSU. Up at WSU they did more blood work, fecal inspection (nothing wrong here), tube into rumen (bugs absent that should be there), ultrasound showed that one of his stomachs was not working--again, inconclusive. Surgery yesterday--goat shows signs of improvement this morning as they removed impaction from his absomasum. WSU gives only 5-10% chance of recovery. (They mentioned it might even be nerve degeneration from his brain to his stomach.) Anyone else have this kind of situation? Any suggestions? We bring him home tomorrow. Has anyone used medicinal herbs on their goats?
I feed Purina goat feed, Purina minerals, sunflower seeds, kelp. Goats are out of grass enclosure to browse nearly every day in spring/summer/fall--usually twice a day and walked once or twice a day regularly. Same feed in winter plus they are fed trees and branches nearly every day. They have mineralized block salt in pens. Since bloating incident I've also put in baking soda--only goat with stomach problems has been using it. 
Thanks and Happy Goating


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

I'd quit the goat feed and have him on grass hay.


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## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

I should have been more specific. In the wintertime, the 6 year old goats get grass hay--the grain is just a small amount with the other additives.


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## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

*Protein drinks*

Question again about the degenerative stomach problem in the 6 year old Alpine goat. We brought him home today and he ate bananas and apples, drank water with Gatorade in it, ate a couple of bites of grass, won't eat anything solid which is probably a good thing. However, he must have protein--has anybody tried giving their goats protein drinks? Any other suggestions to replace the protein he's not getting?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Protein drinks*

Hello,

a good way to keep a goat with rumen problems "going" and nursing the rumen bacteria with energy (glukose) is natriumpropionat (CH3CH2COONa, Propylenglykol) - here in Germany you get it at the vets, in pharmacies and internetshops that sell stock equipment.

The dosage for a goat would be 20 to 40 mls (0,7 to 1,3 oz)

Next thing I would do is stealing cud from a healthy goat and give it to him (fresh, must be done within minutes) or try to get rumen fluid (can be won with a stomach tube from a healthy goat or cow or if you have a slaughterhouse nearby..) must also be given fresh.

And then I would take him out to browse whatever he craves.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I'd be feeding him yogurt, preferably yogurt made with goat milk, but any good live culture type will help.

Probiotics help but there's nothing like real food to heal. I'd add a good qualtiy alfalfa for the protein, and not worry too much if he's on it for a week or two while his system is getting back to normal from the surgery.

Funy story-Since I have liver problems they encourage me to limit my protein. After the porcedure last week I apparently dropped below my personal comfort zone and ended up eating a half an egg and a 1/4 of a piece of bacon. NOw both of these have made me sick for the last 4 years so I haven't eaten either. But I must have needed it because, boy, was it good and no reaction whatsoever.


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## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

*Re: Degenerative digestive system--Gas Issues too.*

My local vet put him on animal probiotics yesterday--before that I was giving human probiotics. He's also getting supercharged vitamin dosages.

He has problems with gas since his rumen pretty much isn't working. We tried Gas-X and does it ever work!!!--in fact, overkill--makes him very uncomfortable for long periods of time. We've switched him to 1/2 Cup of Ginger Ale or 7-Up every couple of hours to keep that gas expelling slowly. Any other ideas? I'm walking him twice a day--early morning and late evening--it's so hot! He went about a mile last night--this morning he went a little over two miles.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello,

have you tried the stealing cud or rumenfluid transmission, yet?

I think that you will keep experiencing gas problems as long as the normal rumen flora isn't etablished again.


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## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

"have you tried the stealing cud or rumenfluid transmission, yet?"

We could steal cud from his brother--is it just a matter of prying his mouth open and removing the cud when he's chewing? 

What is the rumenfluid transmission?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello,

basically it's just that.

Wait till the goat starts chewing cud, then pry the mouth open and sweep out the cud.

BUT! - be careful with your fingers. You have to grab deep into the mouth and there's a good chance that the goat will in reflex bite down on your fingers. Also, you should try to get it done the first time because they can get quite grumpy if you try this several times. You may want to use a spoon to get the cud out between the teeth.

rumenfluid transmission: I think you will need a vet for that.

The vet slides a tube down into the rumen of a healthy goat (through the mouth) and then suck on the tube to get the fluid going - like getting gas out of a tank (it's important that the tube ends in the rumen and not the lung!!). It's not something a vet will be thrilled to do but it has better chances of succes than the cud stealing because you get more active rumen bacteria with this procedure. The fluid will then be transfered fresh and still warm to the sick goat.

Another way is to get fresh, warm rumen liquid from a healthy, fresh slaughtered cow, goat, etc. from your area.


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## Plunge (Jul 29, 2009)

We went out to do the cud "stealing" and of course none of the other goats wanted to cooperate by producing one! So, we waited and waited...all of a sudden Plunge produced a cud and was still chewing a cud when we left 10 minutes later--yeah!!!

We took the goats for about a 2 mile walk this a.m.--Plunge pooped 3 times--not much each time but we're excited to have something coming out of that end--they weren't clumpy, but individualized--we think that's a positive.

We're trying to get as much liquid into his system as possible--this morning we fed him yogurt, applesauce, smashed banana and his prescription medicines. Right now we're soaking alfalfa pellets to get as much liquid into them as possible. We're going to try and find someone that has fresh goat yogurt. 

Thank you so much for your suggestions--they're much appreciated...


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