# This is sad



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

This doe right here, is a half sister (on the sires side) to my doe Moon, and closely related on the dams side. Look at her!!! This is a shot right to my heart, just look! I feel really bad. I wish I could take her back and get her healthy again. 
The first three are the doe, and the last pic is my doe Moon.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't see anything too bad about her? :shrug:

Your doe is lovely looking though :drool:


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

Ouch, she needs some serious wormer, bolus, and a little more weight.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I know ^^ she looks ruff. Can believe what happened, she looked like moon when she left.
Interesting thing though, her and moon had almost identical looking kids this year.

They say they take nutrition very seriously, But as you can see.....

Don't want to blame anyone, things happen, but Azzie looks ruff, tugs the heart strings


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

She does look a tad bit thin and scruffy...she _was_ lactating in those pics though, so she might have been thinner because of that. she doesn't look too underweight though. She might also need a bit of copper...she looks a little red and has a fishtail. I don't see anything major though.Unfortunately not everyone can afford(or wants) to use expensive feed to keep their doe in shape during lactation, or put out minerals, although it's better for the animal, it isn't 100% necessary nor very well known. Sometimes, even, people want their goats to be raised completely naturally, with no minerals, supplements, or even grain. Just grass and weeds lol! She seems to have plenty of grass to graze on anyways, even if she isn't getting grained 

Maybe you can email the owner with your concerns and give them some suggestions on grain and minerals and such(especially during lactation)?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I asked what they are feeding her, they are feeding hay, fodder, pasture, minerals, and herbal wormer. 
To me, she looks almost 20lbs underweight.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Are they unwilling to get a fecal done and use chemical wormers?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Not sure about the fecal, but they are against chemicals and want to do things organic and natural. But I don't think the herbal ones are working. And I'm wondering if the mineral is labeled for sheep too. She's really red, and needs some copper.
She lives less than 20 minutes from me, so I could look at her and get a better idea.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Either they are using the wrong brand of minerals and wormer or they lied. If they are feeding that much and she looks like that something is wrong...

EDIT: I agree she needs copper...I understand wanting "Natural" but when it's hurting your goat, you need to change at least a bit. Do you know of any herbal wormers that do work? And I would ask them what brand of minerals they use...and if it's loose or not.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Not yet, but I'm thinking about buying her back. They are asking a third of what she was sold for. Her doeling is doe sale too.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

She was tested negative for Cl, CAE, and Johne's. So its not that. With all that food it has to be something with the wormer and minerals. And I don't think its from lactating, my does maintain fairly well on just cob, but fodder is fresh and high in nutrients so that would be better than cob.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like they are using "doing things naturally" as an excuse not to treat their goats.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

She hasn't even shed her winter coat out yet. I don't clip my goats but, they shed out sleek. Something is very wrong there. I have a doe that needs weight but is healthy. I put her pic up tomorrow so that the beginners can see the difference. This doe accidently got bred twice last year and raised a total of 5 kids. I just weaned her last kids and am drying her off to regain weight.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

well, you probably should get her back and the doe, but you will have to test her before you let her in with your herd, because god only knows what else could be wrong with her.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

We are trying to do things naturally (I will use chem if I need to) and my goats have improved. They have shiny sleek coats and pink membranes. The kids are growing like weeds too. Natural is no reason for anyone to look rough.

She doesn't look horrible but she doesn't look like she's been as pampered as Moon. If I was anywhere near you I'd take her and give her lots of love. We'd love to have a big Alpine girl like that.

Selling her for 1/3 of what they paid for her? Makes me wonder if there is something wrong with her. Or are they just overwhelmed with goats?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I think she looks wormy and under nourished myself....  her coat looks scruffy and she is very dull....I agree with Lacie~
Yep, wormer, bolus, and groceries...
So sad if she looked like your doe before


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Oh my....that is sad... Hope you buy her back and give her some TLC!!


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

That is sad, but I have also seen a lot worse. I guess you never know what will happen when you sell goats to people. I am always so nervous about selling kids! I think we got lucky this year though. I hope you can get her back, I am sure you could do great things for her.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

She's asking $200 for Azzie and $150 for her doeling. I'll put a pic of doeling up on a second.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Here is the doeling.
They are feeding them on the ground I guess....


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## mhoward2 (Jun 30, 2012)

Beautiful doeling


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Not sure about the fecal, but they are against chemicals and want to do things organic and natural. But I don't think the herbal ones are working. And I'm wondering if the mineral is labeled for sheep too. She's really red, and needs some copper.
> She lives less than 20 minutes from me, so I could look at her and get a better idea.


I use an herbal wormer, but you MUST stay on top of it and use it from a place that knows its stuff. Suggest Fir Meadow to her. Tell her that from someone who shies from chemicals (me), it make a good difference to my herd. Before I was using Molly's, and it worked, but I had to double dose and give it more often than was suggested. I would deworm chemically if my goats needed it, of course, but with Fir Meadow I don't think I will need to. They look great with bright pink eyelids. She will need to deworm this doe twice a day for a week, then twice weekly for awhile.

When you raise your goats all natural, as I try to do most of the time, it takes a lot more work and effort. It is extremely rewarding to you and the goats, but it's a lot more work, and it doesn't look at all like she's caring for them properly. The kid doesn't look right ... this just breaks my heart.

I would suggest a better mineral to her, higher quality hay.

Sorry about your girl ... it's hard, so hard, to see them looking rough.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

The doeling has beautiful markings but it's hard to tell what her conformation is like. 

I think if I saw them around here for that price, tested, I'd get them. It's hard to find anyone around here that tests for anything.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Alright, I'll tell her. 

Makes you wonder how many others look like this right now ):


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Just to show that naturally raised goats can look good ... here are my two senior does, Gypsy and Bee. I deworm herbally. Not trying to steal the thread, but it really gets to me when people use raising naturally as an excuse to ignore their goats' condition. I hope she does the right thing and gets that girl back into proper shape.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

^^ That's what I expect my does to look like when they are in a new home, healthy.
She is feeding sweetlix minerals, and Molly's wormer.

There is a family coming to look at her today, hopefully they buy her and take care of her.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

She does look pretty rough, hehe reminds me of ours back when we didn't know anything.  Not always, but there were times when they didn't look so hot. I think it was because we never got fecals done and didn't know when the wormer was working or not, didn't know any better.  I hope the new owners will try harder.


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## Paige (Oct 14, 2010)

A kid that age should NOT be skinny, if the milk is flowing and hay/good pasture is available. Look at that awful coat! I would say they have worms/cocci. Too bad, compared to your doe, they are just not pretty.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I know^^ they all look bad. Azzie is close to being a full sister to my doe moon. Azzie looked just as good as moon when she left.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I realized I sounded pretty harsh at first and I hope I didn't come across as judgemental. I hope that now that she knows better, she will put forward the effort to give her herd a little TLC.  Lacie, I hope Azzie gets a really nice home who will doctor her up and get her looking as fabulous as she did when she left your care.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Lol it's funny actually. A goat lady I talked to yesterday(she just sold her Nigerian herd) was talking about stuff like this. She would get people who ask for a goat or two that would just live off of the brush they want it to clear off. Her response was a definite _no_. She said that so many people think a goat is just a goat, and there is actually _so_ many things that go into them! She lives locally....makes me wary of selling any of my 4 possibly pregnant does' babies...I'm worried that they won't go to a good home. My two poor pygmies have just started to look nice from ignorance at their previous home...however I just looked and found they were anemic and more copper deficient than I thought, so I'm probably going to have to give them Valbazen and bolus.


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

Coincidentally, I just found this ad not too far from me. 

http://redding.craigslist.org/grd/3944203927.html


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

The doeling looks rough and wormy also.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Their goats are ruff too. Like I say, if you can't take care of it, don't buy it or keep it.

Or the people who research nothing about the animals required care before they buy them.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Here is the doeling.
> They are feeding them on the ground I guess....


its hay. my goats get hay on the ground sometimes. there's really not all that much wrong. their gonna eat what stuff that falls on the ground anyways.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I wouldn't purposely feed on the ground though...I would think that would perpetuate disease and parasites...
Mine will eat hay from the floor the day I change the bedding but not 24 hours later....they don't like it


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

sometimes I don't have something handy and just throw it over.
and iv got completely healthy goats.
I'm not going to bash them because of the hay on the floor. 
but iv not going to call these people horrible owners and that they shouldent have animals. 
like someone else said. they dint know theirbwormer wasn't work so their goats looked like that.
that may be the same case for these people. 
and just like us people have different visions of what we should look like. we have different visions of what our animals should look like. one person may like skin goats and one person may like fat goats.


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

gg132--I agree, but if she looked like Moon when she left, and now looks like that, something funny's going on.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh no, not bashing, just disagreeing with their protocol  Yep, I didn't know some of my meds weren't working until I did more research....and again, I agree I like my goats more "plump" than some, so we do all differ....BUT, I think those goats look rough, coat wise and that takes a while...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Feeding on the ground is dirty, it has parasites, feces etc. It can cause worm overloads and illness. 
Feeding them in a feeder or even a bucket is much better .

Normally, when they are not showing improvement after being wormed, you know its not working, or you get a fecal done. 

Im not bashing, just don't agree with feeding on the ground, for many reasons. I have my way, and other people have theirs.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That's one reason I use a couple 5 gallon buckets for water instead of one of those low bigger stock waterers...I don't want pee/poop in it...even if they didn't drink it, they would suffer from dehydration...I'd rather fill it 2 times a day than have something they can get feces/urine in...same goes for feeding on the ground, they poop/pee there....

I even move my manger every couple weeks so the ground gets a "break" and I lime it once a week....I think it keeps their feet from getting nasty....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I move my feeders around about once a month to clean ground. I rake the pens out clean every week or so as well. I use the 100 gallon tubs for water, I flush them out every day by letting the water flow for a while, and once a week or 2 weeks I scuba it out clean and fill it up.

I also clean the feeder bottoms out when I move them too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You sound like me....lol...I had a guy stop by one day when i had all my chick waterers out to be bleached....he looks at them and says..."Wow, you keep your waterers clean!"....ummmm....those were not washed yet! 
It's a lot of work to keep everything clean but it's soooo worth it.....I hardly ever get a sick animal here....I think that's over half the battle,really.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yep! Cleanliness is the best policy! My mother always says "there's no reason to be dirty, soap and waters' cheap!" Lol, how true.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL...does your Mom know my Mom??


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

We're pretty fanatical about clean too. We sweep berries and tidy daily, completely clean once a week. Bleach the dishes about once a week. I figure if we spend a little extra time cleaning, I get to spend less time worming. Dirty is an invitation for parasites especially if they're eating off the ground or in dirty containers.

I'm so anal about caring for my babies that I'm starting to write up helpful sheets to give people that are new to goats when we sell in the spring. I imagine some people will love me for it and others will think I'm bonkers.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I made ownership records, progeny records and vaccination/worming records. Any goat I sell comes with up to date, informative records. 
We are all a bit crazy in our own ways


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

At the risk of becoming unpopular I have to play devil's advocate for the new owner. Everyone knows how pampered Peggy Sue is and when she was pregnant and nursing I could not keep weight on her or keep her in condition! 

She was getting hay, grass, bagged forage blend, oats, sweet feed, minerals, AND nursing goat vitamin supplements and she still goat boney and fishtailed until she started weaning her babies. Not saying that the doe is getting amazing care, just saying she could look that way with reasonably adequate care from well-meaning owners.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Axykatt, that's happened to me too with a heavy milker. The difference is that she looks mineral deficient as well, and the kid doesn't look good either. But you make a very good point.


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