# Mini lamancha questions



## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

OK so I am officially expecting mini lamancha babies. But I'm scared they will be born with ears. Both parents are F1 and both had a Lamancha mom and a Nigerian dad. So these babies will be F2. What are the chances of them being born with ears?

My doe is due Jan 11th but only has a tiny tiny udder started. She could be due later as well as she was with him almost 2 months but I saw her bred Aug 14th and again Aug 19th so I am basing from the 5 day heat on Aug 19th. Momma Ginger is the cream and S'mores (black and white) is the dad.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Haha! LaMancha ears amuse me so much!

I don't know what the genetic probability of producing kids with ears is in the F2 generation though. 

Now are both these F1s considered to have "elf ears" versus the preferred "gopher ears"?


----------



## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

It's hard to say what she will have but I would guess Elf ears


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

How do you get to an "actual" MiniMunchie? You have to breed F1 to F1 then F2 to F2, etc? What happens if you cross an F2 with an F4 or with a Nigerian? The crossing possibilities seem endless. So how do you get a pure mini with making a mutt? 

Does the Gopher ear win over the upright ear? Or do Elf ears rule?

So many questions! I had F1's last season and bred for more F1's this year. I'd LOVE to have the ability to keep bucks and be able to keep on breeding down to a "pure" mini - whatever that means.


----------



## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

So to get a mini mancha you have to breed a F1 to a F1 you breed that F2 baby to another F2 that F3 to a F3 That F4 baby is a purebred mini mancha. Before an F4 It's considered a crossbred. If you breed a F1 to a F4 you get a F3, One lower than the highest number. In the ears it's more likley to get gopher ears


----------



## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Full mini Lamancha is F6. I know f1 to f1 makes f2. F2 x f2 makes f3 etc. I believe if you breed an f3 to f2 you still have f3 babies. The babies will always be 1 higher than the lowest generation. So F2 xF4 will be F3s. 

You definitely want gopher ears but elf ears are more common in the lower generations.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

groovyoldlady said:


> How do you get to an "actual" MiniMunchie? You have to breed F1 to F1 then F2 to F2, etc? What happens if you cross an F2 with an F4 or with a Nigerian? The crossing possibilities seem endless. So how do you get a pure mini with making a mutt?
> 
> Does the Gopher ear win over the upright ear? Or do Elf ears rule?
> 
> So many questions! I had F1's last season and bred for more F1's this year. I'd LOVE to have the ability to keep bucks and be able to keep on breeding down to a "pure" mini - whatever that means.


Kids are always one generation above the lowest parent.

So..
F1 + F1 = F2
F2 + F2 = F3
F2 + F4 = F3
F1 + F6 = F2

F1s and F2s are experimental and do not have to meet the breed standard.



> "Experimentals" are miniature dairy goats that are usually first- or second- generation miniature dairy goats (F1 and F2). These individuals do not have to meet the breed standards of their chosen breed. View the breed standards here. Any third-generation or higher miniature dairy goat that does not meet the standards for the specific breed will also be registered as an "Experimental" with an * after the registration number indicating it does not conform.


F3s, 4s, and 5s are American and have some registration stipulations.



> "Americans" are miniature dairy goats that are usually third-, fourth-, and fifth- generation miniature dairy goats (F3, F4, and F5). Each animal MUST meet ALL standards for its specific breed and must be no more than 70% of either of the original breeds (standard dairy goat and Nigerian Dwarf). If an animal belongs to one of these generations but does not meet ALL standards for its specific breed, it will be entered into the "Experimental" herdbook instead of into the "American" herdbook with * after the registration number. This is in accordance with MDGA's 70/30 Rule, which requires that a goat have no more than 70% or no less than 30% of either of its parent breeds in order for it to be accepted in the "American" and "Purebred" herdbooks.)


And F6s are purebred.



> "Purebreds" are miniature dairy goats that are sixth-generation (F6) or higher miniature dairy goats. A "Purebred" *MUST* meet *ALL* standards for its specified breed and must meet the conditions of the 70/30 Rule.


And info on the ears:



> The ears are either 'Gopher' which lack cartilage but do have a ring of skin around the auditory canal or the 'Elf' which has some cartilage and should be no longer than an inch long. In does, both ear types are equally accepted but bucks must have 'Gopher'; ears to be registered.
> Bucks with elf ears will be registered "Experimental".


----------



## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Oh my bad Sorry it's been a wile sence I looked it up


----------



## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

This pair is both elf eared. Do they have the potential to throw gopher ears or will all be elf eared? I know I need to find an F3 buck with gopher ears to breed to my F2 babies next year. I eventually would like to get up to F6 or buy some F6.


----------



## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

They could throw etheir


----------



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Do any of their ancestors have gopher ears?

Two years ago, I had 2 Myotonic does and a gopher eared Mini Lamancha doe (her dam was an F1 Mini-Mancha but her sire was a purebred Lamancha, so not sure what that made her), and I bred them all to an F1 ELF eared Mini Lamancha buck. 
All three had twins:

• The Mini-Mancha had a buck (gopher eared) and a doe (elf eared)
• The first Myotonic doe had a buck (upright ears) and a doe (elf ears, after her sire)
• The other Myotonic had twin doelings, both elf eared. 

So out of 6 kids, only one had "ears".


----------



## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm not sure. I never got to see their parents. So don't know what kind of ears the dams had. The sires were Nigerian dwarf so had regular ears.


----------



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

It will be interesting to see what she has! Are you planning on keeping a doe if possible?


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Ranger1 said:


> You said she gets plenty of zinc-how much is _plenty_?





Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Kids are always one generation above the lowest parent.
> 
> So..
> F1 + F1 = F2
> ...


You are AMAZING! Thank you for the info!!!


----------

