# Guys, I think I finally found a good one!!



## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

GUYS! I finally found a great buck in my price range! And as a plus, he has the color that i wanted! But before i go ahead with the transaction, I'd LOVE to hear all of your opinions on him! One of my breeder friends mentioned that he looked a little Post-Legged, but i think it's just because he's braced.

His name is 'Spike' and he's a 100% registered fullblood out of texas. 5 ennoblements on his papers, and won grand champion buck at the North West Missouri State Fair in 2011.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't know anything about Boers, but he looks weak on his feet and legs and roached in the loin:shrug:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

He does look a little posty, and his front hooves look week in the pasterns. His front end assembly is very nice and I like his topline and head. I'm not a Boer breeder, but personally although he is nice, he isn't one I would buy.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Riley what is meant by "roached in the loin"? Could it be the way hes set up?
He looks toed out in front but possibly need of good trim.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> He does look a little posty, and his front hooves look week in the pasterns. His front end assembly is very nice and I like his topline and head. I'm not a Boer breeder, but personally although he is nice, he isn't one I would buy.


 I do have to agree, but, I do see he is bracing big time, so that is hard to judge,both photo's are like that the first one shows it worse, if you look at the way he is standing from front view, he is toe out a bit there. with weak pasterns and doesn't have a good twist. He does have good color, but I am afraid he will not help your herd, but of course, it is up to you.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

A roached loin is when their loin is almost round shaped, not flat. He's being braced, so it's very possibly that is why it looks like that. Again, I don't know much about Boer conformation though.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

He looks pretty nice. Hind legs look nice and square with plenty of width. His front feet turn out a bit, but his chest is nice and wide. I think his topline would look a lot better if he was pictured loose and standing naturally, I also think he wouldn't look as posty behind if he was more natural. If he won grand champion he must be pretty nice, I know around Tulsa anyways the competition is pretty fierce.

A roached topline is where the back humps up kind of like a roach's back.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Gotcha Ptgoats, thanks!


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> I do have to agree, but, I do see he is bracing big time, so that is hard to judge,both photo's are like that the first one shows it worse, if you look at the way he is standing from front view, he is toe out a bit there. with weak pasterns and doesn't have a good twist. He does have good color, but I am afraid he will not help your herd, but of course, it is up to you.


To me, his pasterns dont look nearly as weak as a lot of animals ive seen around here. And his twist is about 2 inches deeper than our current buck, so i think he just might improve the herd.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

And i do see what you guys mean about toeing out, but i think he just needs a spa day with a pedicure  What i see is a nice buck with a straight top, decent muscle, and lots of width. He's a wether buck, so he probably wouldnt create the most showable doe kids, but i think he'd produce nice buck kids.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> And i do see what you guys mean about toeing out, but i think he just needs a spa day with a pedicure  What i see is a nice buck with a straight top, decent muscle, and lots of width. He's a wether buck, so he probably wouldnt create the most showable doe kids, but i think he'd produce nice buck kids.


If that's what you want then, you know your herd best :thumb:


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

I know that he isnt the greatest buck out there, but for $450 he's a steal. I know that in my price range, im not going to get some huge buck with a great conformation, so im trying to stay realistic on my expectations.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

Well in that case he's the perfect buck for you


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> I know that he isnt the greatest buck out there, but for $450 he's a steal. I know that in my price range, im not going to get some huge buck with a great conformation, so im trying to stay realistic on my expectations.


Completely understand that. With my price range I will have to go with a baby buck if I want one from good lines. They can be pricey.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Completely understand that. With my price range I will have to go with a baby buck if I want one from good lines. They can be pricey.


Yeah, we could get a buck kid.. But we're looking for a buck thats ready to breed now.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I'd like to see a more natural stacking...kinda hard to tell with the bracing. His topline doesn't look all that great and rear legs look posty, but again could be the bracing making him look like that. Nice color and muscling looks pretty good. Sounds like he'd be just the right buck for your herd, especially if he's an improvement over your other bucks. A nice pedigree doesn't hurt either!  :thumb:


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

Congrats on your buck!! Hes beautiful!! I really love his color!!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I'm curious how he's bred. Does he have an ABGA reg. # ?

I like him a lot better than the last buck you had pics of.
That the seller is bracing him tells me their deal is a wether showing background. I think that is what you are wanting to do too.?
Wether bucks are going to look different than fullblood breeding stock show bucks. 
This buck has good muscling. I think his twist is pretty darn good.
I think I know what people are saying about his top line. If you put his back legs in a more natural position, he's maybe going to sort of look humped up and not as level. Since he's a paint it can be deceiving, but
he still looks "not long enough". JMO. But this buck looks like all man and ready to go to work to put muscle and good front ends on kids.
There is a young lady named "DANI" on this fourm who knows show wethers. I'd be curious what she has to say.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> To me, his pasterns dont look nearly as weak as a lot of animals ive seen around here. And his twist is about 2 inches deeper than our current buck, so i think he just might improve the herd.


 You wanted our opinion, :wink:so now, you can take it from here, it seems that you liked him and had your mind set on him before you asked what we all thought.  So it is up to you. The thing with weak pasterns is that if they are showing it at a young age, they will break down a lot more as they mature. If he is better than any bucks in the past, that is a good thing. The toeing out isn't good, if you want strong legs on you wethers. If it is only cosmetic that is fine but if not, that isn't a good thing to have if you are wanting show wethers. Just my opinion, but, it is up to you now, how you want to pursue it.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Well i told the guy that we'd take him, on the deadline he gave me. After telling me that he wouldnt sell him out from under me, he did just that. So the buck has been sold, just not to us.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I would not be looking to do business with that guy again then. I hope you find the buck that will help you improve your heard.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

A breeder who would go back on his word is not a breeder worth dealing with. I'm sorry you lost your buck -- hopefully another will pop up and the breeder will keep his word.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Thanks guys. It was quite dissapointing. He held him for a week and a half, and i got back to him the day he asked me to, but he had a guy looking at him then.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry that happened,


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Everything happens for a reason, i suppose so who knows- maybe ill find something i like better!:shrug:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

That's happened to me before. So frustrating. I was super interested in two does a gal had for sale, but just needed half a day to talk it over and make sure this was going to be a good purchase. It was a big purchase, money wise. Well I chatted back and forth and asked the gal if she could hold them just until tomorrow morning and i'll get back with her right away, i'm very interested. She agreed and I talked it over and decided we'd take the two does, she emails back and tells me they've already been sold and I should have made a decision sooner, she doesn't have time to wait for my email?! What?! We already agreed you'd hold them! But whatever...some people choose to do business like that. It's very disappointing when that kind of thing happens. That gal sold out of goats, but after that incident, I wouldn't have done business with her at all.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

I'd been talking to this guy for nearly two weeks, and he'd said from the get go that we had first dibs on him. One of my business partners went out of town unexpectidly, and she doesnt carry a cell with her, so i had no way to talk to her. He called me on sunday and said if i could get back to him by sunday morning that he'd be ours. We'll sunday afternoon rolls around, and he shoots me a text saying 'Any news on the buck?' and i reply saying im at my partners house now, and id get back to him within the hour- which i did. His response said 'Have a guy coming now too look at the buck. Will tell you if he's sold. Thanks sorry'. SO FRUSTRATING!


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## TiffofMo (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry to here ive been watching your post to see if you got him. How close are these guys to your place they look nice i think lol http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/3290942626.html I dont see many black ones.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

He is really toe out. He will pass that along to his of spring, and for me I will get rid of them in no time. It will also make him more arthritic as he goes along in life.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

I'm quite iffy on the black boers.. I've never been a fan, and quality that comes with the color seems pretty weak normally. I cant look at the ad now, but if its in the KC area, we're 20 min away. Thanks!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, for some reason my other post is so far back here.

Oh, well, I am sorry that happened, but you have to like others said, look at it as it was NOT MEANT TO BE. He was nice BUT had problems, so the right one is out there and waiting for you. 

Also, i will tell you what I do, I am upfront and honest with everyone looking at my goats. I tell them the first person that puts down their non refundable deposit on a animal will be the one to get him. I do believe since he was talking to you about him he could of been honest and told you, "hey someone else is really intrested in him also" and let you know you had to make up your mind fast.

Again I am so sorry, but it all happens for a reason.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Well.. two new bucks have popped up. One from a VERY prestigious breeder that she's not offering to anyone but us. His grandsire is RRD REMINGTON. He's $750 which is about $300 over budget.. but.. I'm considering. Dont have any pictures yet.

BUT I did find a fullblood traditional buck for $300, about 3 hours away. I'll post pics of him and his parents. His Dam got Grand Champion of her class at the Kansas state fair this year. I really like this boy, but im not 100% sold yet. He's also only 9 months old.

This is Splash









His sire









Dam


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Wow, he's impressive and cute to boot. Any chance of getting photos of the more expensive buck? I always think of the "you get what you pay for" quote here. Do you want a $700 buck making $700 buck offspring or a $300 buck making $300 buck offspring?

I wonder what is the difference between the more expensive buck and the less expensive buck? I wonder the difference in their offspring?

I know nothing of breeding bucks. I do know something about breeding parrots and in the parrot world you get what you pay for.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Dayna said:


> Wow, he's impressive and cute to boot. Any chance of getting photos of the more expensive buck? I always think of the "you get what you pay for" quote here. Do you want a $700 buck making $700 buck offspring or a $300 buck making $300 buck offspring?
> 
> I wonder what is the difference between the more expensive buck and the less expensive buck? I wonder the difference in their offspring?
> 
> I know nothing of breeding bucks. I do know something about breeding parrots and in the parrot world you get what you pay for.


I'm sure the $750 buck is jaw dropping. He was a keeper buck that theyve offered to us, as Julia shows for them.

The $300 is worth more than that, but the market is bad, and they just want to sell him as theyre getting out of the business. I think he looks great for 9 months old.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Maybe that 9 month old buck is just the perfect match you've been looking for then!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I like the 9 month old buck. He would be plenty old enough to service several does. My 6 month old Nubian buck bred 5 does in about 3 days! He did seem a little tired, but bounced back quickly. The 9 month old looks a little steep in the rump, but it could be the way he stopped, with his hind feet too far under him. I like the way his horns are wide set and sweep away from his neck/head. Some judges would call those "wild" horns, but I think those type of horns are way better than the ones that curve down along their necks. I've seen bucks who had the hair rubbed off their neck from their horns. The bucks dam looks pretty nice, her hind legs look a little posty, and it looks like she toes out in front, but that could be the way she was set up. The sire looks like he has straight front legs though, so he may have corrected that in the doe. I would go take a look at him and see if you really like him. Sometimes you can find jewels for a low price. For example: I just bought a permanent champion Saanen doe for $400. That is less than does others had for sale that were not champions and had never been shown. She is really nice and a purebred Saanen to boot, which is hard to find (most are American Saanens).

IMO if you like him and feel like he will be an asset to your herd, I would go with it. If you think you are going to regret not getting the more expensive buck then I would look at him too and consider if you could afford him.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

He looks very nice to me!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I have to say...Splash looks so much better than the original buck you posted. I love paints, but either it's the way that first buck was set up, or just how he is, but I just didn't like him  Sorry. 
I'm no pro by any means of course, but I do like Splash. 

I too am curious about the more expensive buck, you'll definitely have to share some pics


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Unfortunately, the owner has asked me not to share any pictures or names. He's way cool though. VERY straight thick legs, a lot of show style, lots of power. Overall a cool boy. I just don't know.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Looks like a nice buck! :thumb:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Pictures can be deceiving along with being clipped. He is standing out there naturally & he is very nice! Especially for a 9 mo old. Nice butt too.
Our last buck had horns that rubbed on his neck. It was a real job keeping it from getting too raw.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

The 750 buck is obviously the easy choice, IF i had that kind of money laying around. I just dont know i could possibly afford that, as a senior in highschool, and having my boss cut my hours repeatedly. I dont want to regret getting the 750 buck, BUT i think i would regret spending that kind of money.

Should i just go with the 9mo old boy? I'm leaning towards yes.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> The 750 buck is obviously the easy choice, IF i had that kind of money laying around. I just dont know i could possibly afford that, as a senior in highschool, and having my boss cut my hours repeatedly. I dont want to regret getting the 750 buck, BUT i think i would regret spending that kind of money.
> 
> Should i just go with the 9mo old boy? I'm leaning towards yes.


Personally, if it were me, I would wait until after that sale you are
going to before I buy the cheap buck. Keep that money available in case
you can get an even nicer buck bought at that sale. 
We haven't seen the $750 buck, so we are just assuming he's better than
the $300 buck, but since you are prepared to walk away from him because
of price, you could offer $500 and see what they say. Of course you would
have to be prepared to fork over the $500 if they say yes! 

I'm not a judge or trained in the explanations of a judge, but when I see
that 9 month old buck I see a very healthy attractive animal that probably 
looks as good as he ever will. I think he looks better than he is because
he's being fed well and is bloomy. He's not a show buck.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I'm probably just talking to myself here, but to me the perfect example of why you should try to buy a better buck than the 9 month old is contained in those three pictures of that goat family. If you start at the bottom and look at the dam, she's pretty nice by any standards. Hard to say what the competition was at that show etc. but I think most of us boer people would be glad to have her in our herd. Then scroll up and see the buck she was bred to. Appearance wise, he's just an average commercial type boer buck. Scroll up again and you see the resulting offspring. Just an average commercial type healthy boer buck. I think that breeding program was going backwards. If it were *me*, I'd be worried I was about to repeat the same mistakes they did and it'd be me trying to sell out three years from now.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

HamiltonAcresBoers- Is northern Indiana to far for you?? I have both my boer bucks for sale. I've used both this year and need a new one next year. I have lots of photos of the one bucks kids and I have a doe due to the other one next month. If you'd like more info I'd be more then happy to talk to you about these 2 boys. You can email me if your interested [email protected]


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

They would be SO offended if i offered anything. $750 is a steal for that boy, as he's worth $1500 easy. 

And i know that Splash isnt a show buck, but we arent really looking for one. We're just looking for a buck to improve our herd. We breed for show kids, and although our current buck is nothing to speak of, he still produces AMAZING doe kids. I would be so embarassed if someone wanted to show him, because he would be put at the bottom EVERY time- But his kids show so well. So I think that just because this buck isnt very showy doesnt mean that he couldnt have showable kids..


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Bit of Everything said:


> HamiltonAcresBoers- Is northern Indiana to far for you?? I have both my boer bucks for sale. I've used both this year and need a new one next year. I have lots of photos of the one bucks kids and I have a doe due to the other one next month. If you'd like more info I'd be more then happy to talk to you about these 2 boys. You can email me if your interested [email protected]


Bout 18 hours away, im afraid.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

Well drats oh well nothing ventured nothing gained by not asking. Good luck on your search


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> They would be SO offended if i offered anything. $750 is a steal for that boy, as he's worth $1500 easy.
> 
> And i know that Splash isnt a show buck, but we arent really looking for one. We're just looking for a buck to improve our herd. We breed for show kids, and although our current buck is nothing to speak of, he still produces AMAZING doe kids. I would be so embarassed if someone wanted to show him, because he would be put at the bottom EVERY time- But his kids show so well. So I think that just because this buck isnt very showy doesnt mean that he couldnt have showable kids..


Someone mentioned you were going to a sale, if so, I agree, wait and see if you find something there. Do you have anyone that could help you select a buck at the sale?

I like Splash, and I agree, he may not be show quality, but I bet he'd throw some nice kids 
We don't have big show quality goats, we just happened to get a buck that complimented the does <we have 3 percentage does>. We're happy with what he has given us. My kids showed 3 of his doe kids this summer, one was out of our kiko doe, 2 out of a 50% doe who has lousy conformation. 
They turned out to be very competitive and placed very well in the shows, and my kids were showing against kids who had established 'professional' breeding programs/their parents bred&showed boers at a top level.
So there is a lot you can do with a buck like Splash 

I'd be leary about anyone wanting to sell a $1500 buck for $750...to me that is a huge investment being lost for them, again it just makes me leary. I don't know anyone in the business that would reduce price like that even for kids breeding to show goats in the fairs, maybe a hundred, or couple of hundred, but not that much of a difference.
And the fact they don't want you to share pictures with anyone...


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Julia, my show/breeding partner, shows at big shows for them- as she's the state of Kansas' top showman  they think the world of her, and know how hard that we've been looking for a buck, so they offered to sell us one of their keeper bucks from this spring. They want us to get a good quality (they're pretty renound in our area) and they didn't want me or Julia sharing any pictures of him because they haven't announced that they're selling him, and they don't want others getting upset over how low his price is. It sounds odd when I put it in type, but they're very nice people, and I can't begin to thank them for giving us this opportunity- even if we can't take it.


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