# What if I did nothing...



## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

So this is in the newbie forum... 

I bought 4 ND doe bottle babies. I never gave them any shots, tested them for anything, or wormed them.

I bought a ND buck and did the same.

I now have 7 new babies...and I know I need to figure out this husbandry thing but I don't even know where to start. They do have lose minerals. 

Please be gentle...what do I do first?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Nothing to be gentle about! Goats shouldn’t be wormed on any kind of schedule and a lot of people don’t vaccinate against anything. 
Are all of the fist goats you mentioned adults now? Are these their offspring? There is something called coccidiosis and it is a terrible thing. It is very common for small kids to get this and either be stunted or die once they get a high load. A lot of people, myself included, do a preventive treatment and treat kids every 3 weeks to be on the safe side. There are also people who do not do this too though. I didn’t till I started having issues, but when I had issue they were bad issues! 
Worming, don’t worm unless they need it. If they are nice and fat, good pink inner eye lid color, healthy looking coats they are probably fine. If anything makes you question it send In a fecal sample and see what worms your dealing with and go from there. Since your new sending one out wouldn’t be a bad thing just to see if you are correct on what you are seeing. 
Vaccines is kinda a personal choice as well as what kind of issues are going on in your herd and area. Two vaccines I totally recommend is CDT (over eating disease and tetanus) and something for pneumonia. My reason for these are, these things can strike fast with no warning and no way to save the animals so vaccinating is a small insurance. No vaccine is 100% though so never rule any disease out simply because they have been vaccinated. But other vaccines like against mastitis, chlamydia, sore mouth and such, there is no point in vaccinating against unless you run into these problems.
And great job on the minerals! This is something many new goat owners have no idea about


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Yes, all 4 does are adults now. They are 2. I didn't breed them until they were 1. Yes, my babies are their offspring. I have read 3 books and read on here even though I don't post a lot. But I just get confused about what I'm supposed to do.

I do have some coats that have faded. So I am guessing even with the loose minerals they need copper. I can give them replamin gel for that....correct? Do I give it to the babies or just the adults?

Worming - get a fecal from each adult and send it off. But not the babies?

As for vaccines I need to give CDT and pneumonia... I'm assuming the adults and babies?

They have a large pasture. Get a little grain every morning. Have plenty of fresh water. And have hay. 

If I'm missing anything I should be doing please let me know. And thank you!!!!


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## lifesabtchlearn2deal (Mar 26, 2018)

The only other thing I can think of which could just be me because I'm terrified of the issue coming up is I do check all of my goats once every two weeks or less...depends when I think about it but always atleast twice a month if not 4 times is check for lice. Especially in my babies. I've had the issue of every goat I've ever bought being covered in lice even tho the sellers told me their goats don't have it lol I still checked them as soon as I got home to make sure. I know of they get over run with it they can get anemic


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I suppose the first thing I would recommend is to separate the buck and then wean any bucklings at 8 weeks old (or wether them). Otherwise your does will get bred right back again (if they aren't already) and the doelings will be bred far too young. It can be very hard on them to be bred continuously. Yes the buck will breed his daughters given any opportunity.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

You do NOT need to vaccinate, and you should really research the topic before injecting all sorts of genetically modified organisms, animal byproducts and toxic chemicals into your animals.

There are hundreds of herds that have successfully raised goats for decades and have never used vaccinations of any kind.

A friend of mine told me that some of her goat kids developed entero and she lost all of them because the antitoxin is no longer working as there is a new strain that is becoming a problem
throughout our area. You might have already heard about the new Clostridial strain as so many vets are aware of it now. So the real-world in-the-field news is that the vaccine isn't providing any protection against this new strain since the vaccine was developed using a different strain of the C perfringens bacteria, and the antitoxin isn't working for the same reason. This was what was told to her by her vet. Another friend had the same problem but successfully treated it with a natural treatment that she mail-ordered, which is called ClostridEaze.

Google Juliette de Bairacli Levy and get her book on livestock and the following article:
*Vaccinations: A Word of Caution for Our Animals *by *Dr. Will Falconer *on Fias Co Farm's web site.

Also google VaccinesRevealed.com and I'll post more soon.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

SalteyLove said:


> I suppose the first thing I would recommend is to separate the buck and then wean any bucklings at 8 weeks old (or wether them). Otherwise your does will get bred right back again (if they aren't already) and the doelings will be bred far too young. It can be very hard on them to be bred continuously. Yes the buck will breed his daughters given any opportunity.


The buck is separated. We did that when we knew it was close to time. He isn't happy about it.

We are already seeing one of the bucklings being "bucky". Do I worry about that?

And I told my husband that the does needed a break. He thought we should breed again for a fall kidding. Who is correct?


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## lifesabtchlearn2deal (Mar 26, 2018)

I am only willing to breed my does once a year but I only breed when I know I have enough people wanting to buy them. I'm not the type to take mine to a sale barn. They're my babies and their babies are just as precious to me. So I have where I'm only breeding in November December area like right before thanksgiving to around christmas. I do know people who do breed constant and it seems their does are constantly looking run down and from talking to them they don't live as long. So that made me just be like no ty


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

Yes, you need to worry when the bucklings start showing interest in the girls, but mini breeds can start that behavior before weaning time so you want to be sure that they are of weaning age before separating. But definitely if he's old enough to be weaned, that is what you should've done as "bucky" behavior can lead to unwanted outcomes or breeding accidents.

It is in the best interest of any doe to only breed her once a year, if her health is important to you. It can be done more often, but they do suffer for it.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

As for coccidiosis prevention you might want to look into GI Soother ( https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p436/Herb_Mix_GI_Soother™_DIgestive_System_Support_16_oz.html ). It's also worked great for animals I purchased that need treatment so I can highly recommend it.

The best and most effective natural wormer on the market is DWorm A, and it also works great in combination with GI Soother. ( https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p91/Herb_Mix_DWorm_A_™_16_oz.html )


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

In addition to everybody else’s advice, I would highly recommend testing your entire herd (yearly) for Johnes, CAE and CL. By entire herd, I mean everyone 1 year old and up. I actually think I read somewhere that Johnes can’t be detected until they’re over 2 years old, but for CAE and CL it’s 1 year+. 

I also just started doing cocci prevention with my kids, as well as check the adults’ lower eyelids (FAMANCHA score) almost daily (it takes only a second to do if the goat is tame). I have had a lot of trouble with Barber Pole worms (last year we lost 1, almost 2 goats to it and the darn thing just keeps popping up!) so I’ve been keeping a close eye on everybody - which is pretty easy because I have each of my milkers on the stanchion 2x daily.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Two of my does last fall were bred only 3 months post kidding. One of them we had bought already pregnant, but the other one we had bred ourselves because I wanted to avoid summer kidding here in Louisiana (it starts getting horribly hot even in April, and also late winter/early spring kidding seems to help avoid parasite problems in the kids) and so, after making sure she was in great body condition we put her in with the buck. 
They both seemed to be a little more pulled down after kidding (each with a single buckling) and weren’t giving much milk until we weaned their kids at 4 months old. If possible I will not breed that soon after kidding again, once a year is way easier on the doe and kids.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No kids can get a fecal done as well. 
And if I was sounding like I was saying you must vaccinate that was not what I was saying  it is your choice. I personally vaccinate and when asked about what people should vaccinate against I say CDT and pneumonia. But again your choice. A lot of people don’t vaccinate.
As for the bucklings, so they are 7 months old? If so yes get them away from the girls and probably get ready for some kids. For the future bucklings will act interested at a very young age. Mine usually start humping each other at like 2 weeks old. Totally normal. I keep them with moms and don’t worry about anything till they start humping and the penis starts to come out. At that point they need to get away from the girls.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

At this point I would do a herd wide fecal just to see what's what. You do this by mixing one or two berries from each doe in one bag , they only need about eight, and one or two berries from the kids in another bag. 
This is a really good way to get a herd profile started. Just let the vet or lab know that it is a mixed sample. 
You might look up mid America research center. They do cheap mail- in fecals.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

aJadeMagnolia said:


> Yes, you need to worry when the bucklings start showing interest in the girls, but mini breeds can start that behavior before weaning time so you want to be sure that they are of weaning age before separating. But definitely if he's old enough to be weaned, that is what you should've done as "bucky" behavior can lead to unwanted outcomes or breeding accidents.
> 
> It is in the best interest of any doe to only breed her once a year, if her health is important to you. It can be done more often, but they do suffer for it.


The buckling starting to show interest is 4 weeks old this past Thursday. So not quite weaning age. Any suggestions?

I prefer to only breed once a year. I will tell my husband I am right.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Goat_Scout said:


> In addition to everybody else's advice, I would highly recommend testing your entire herd (yearly) for Johnes, CAE and CL. By entire herd, I mean everyone 1 year old and up. I actually think I read somewhere that Johnes can't be detected until they're over 2 years old, but for CAE and CL it's 1 year+.
> 
> I also just started doing cocci prevention with my kids, as well as check the adults' lower eyelids (FAMANCHA score) almost daily (it takes only a second to do if the goat is tame). I have had a lot of trouble with Barber Pole worms (last year we lost 1, almost 2 goats to it and the darn thing just keeps popping up!) so I've been keeping a close eye on everybody - which is pretty easy because I have each of my milkers on the stanchion 2x daily.





Goat_Scout said:


> In addition to everybody else's advice, I would highly recommend testing your entire herd (yearly) for Johnes, CAE and CL. By entire herd, I mean everyone 1 year old and up. I actually think I read somewhere that Johnes can't be detected until they're over 2 years old, but for CAE and CL it's 1 year+.
> 
> I also just started doing cocci prevention with my kids, as well as check the adults' lower eyelids (FAMANCHA score) almost daily (it takes only a second to do if the goat is tame). I have had a lot of trouble with Barber Pole worms (last year we lost 1, almost 2 goats to it and the darn thing just keeps popping up!) so I've been keeping a close eye on everybody - which is pretty easy because I have each of my milkers on the stanchion 2x daily.


OK...need help here. How do I test for Johnes, CAE and CL?

What do you mean by cocci prevention? I know to check their eyelids.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> No kids can get a fecal done as well.
> And if I was sounding like I was saying you must vaccinate that was not what I was saying  it is your choice. I personally vaccinate and when asked about what people should vaccinate against I say CDT and pneumonia. But again your choice. A lot of people don't vaccinate.
> As for the bucklings, so they are 7 months old? If so yes get them away from the girls and probably get ready for some kids. For the future bucklings will act interested at a very young age. Mine usually start humping each other at like 2 weeks old. Totally normal. I keep them with moms and don't worry about anything till they start humping and the penis starts to come out. At that point they need to get away from the girls.


I am for vaccinating so I appreciated the advice. We have horses as well and vaccinate them. No I only have one buck and he is separated. My bucklings are my new babies. One is 4 weeks old and the other 2 weeks old.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

goathiker said:


> At this point I would do a herd wide fecal just to see what's what. You do this by mixing one or two berries from each doe in one bag , they only need about eight, and one or two berries from the kids in another bag.
> This is a really good way to get a herd profile started. Just let the vet or lab know that it is a mixed sample.
> You might look up mid America research center. They do cheap mail- in fecals.


So you would do a herd instead of individual?


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

The 4-week-old buckling is not quite old enough to do any harm so just wait until he is at least 8 weeks old before separating him. I've had Nigerian Dwarf goats for over 12 years now and have never had any problems at that age. At 4 weeks his digestive system and rumen are not fully developed yet.



jdragr said:


> The buckling starting to show interest is 4 weeks old this past Thursday. So not quite weaning age. Any suggestions?
> 
> I prefer to only breed once a year. I will tell my husband I am right.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

If you have a closed herd (meaning you are not acquiring new animals and adding them to your herd from different sources) and are not frequenting shows, auctions, etc., and the source(s) of your stock were disease-free, then testing for those diseases is not as much of a concern. You would need to contact a vet to test for those diseases.

Cocci prevention can be as simple as a pinch of GI Soother put in their mouth once or twice a day. https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p436/Herb_Mix_GI_Soother™_DIgestive_System_Support_16_oz.html



jdragr said:


> OK...need help here. How do I test for Johnes, CAE and CL?
> 
> What do you mean by cocci prevention? I know to check their eyelids.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

aJadeMagnolia said:


> If you have a closed herd (meaning you are not acquiring new animals and adding them to your herd from different sources) and are not frequenting shows, auctions, etc., and the source(s) of your stock were disease-free, then testing for those diseases is not as much of a concern. You would need to contact a vet to test for those diseases.
> 
> Cocci prevention can be as simple as a pinch of GI Soother put in their mouth once or twice a day. https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p436/Herb_Mix_GI_Soother™_DIgestive_System_Support_16_oz.html[/QUOTE.
> 
> We have had a closed herd....but I want to grow my herd. My husband still wants to breed 2x year. He says how will we ever make any money if we only breed once a year? (food, fencing, vaccinations, etc)


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

You can also do your own fecals, which in the long run can be much more economical.

Barber's pole worm loads have increased over the past couple of decades. We are now dealing with the consequences of chemical wormer overuse and abuse as they have become drug resistant and are now more pervasive than they ever were before. But there is still a way to control them. Feeding Lespedeza pellets can really help in controlling and preventing barber's pole worm infestations, indeed even in the humid Southeast it has been shown to be very effective.

Also, DWorm A combined with GI Soother that I mentioned above is very effective at control and prevention as well. https://www.firmeadowllc.com/blog/n...rious-parasitecoccidia-issues-for-any-species

https://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/worms/fecals.shtml


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

jdragr said:


> OK...need help here. How do I test for Johnes, CAE and CL?
> 
> What do you mean by cocci prevention? I know to check their eyelids.


You can either pull blood yourself (you can get the needles and collection tubes from Jeffers), which saves quite a bit of money, or you can have a vet come out and pull it for you. The next step would be sending it in to a lab for testing, and likewise either you or your vet can do that. 
Here is a good thread on testing: 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/cae-cl-johnes-testing.193891/

For cocci prevention I've been using Corid and, beginning at around 1 month old, you give it to them orally for 5 days in a row, and repeat every 21 days until they're weaned. You can find the dosage for corid on this thread: 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/corid-dosage.193536/

Checking their lower eyelids is mostly for Barber Pole worms, if a goat has cocci you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at their eyelids.



aJadeMagnolia said:


> If you have a closed herd (meaning you are not acquiring new animals and adding them to your herd from different sources) and are not frequenting shows, auctions, etc., and the source(s) of your stock were disease-free, then testing for those diseases is not as much of a concern. You would need to contact a vet to test for those diseases.


Buying from tested herds and/or keeping a closed herd does not mean you have a disease-free herd. I know this from experience.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

Since most people are not experienced pulling blood, most usually have a professional do it. If you think you are up to it, here is an article explaining how to do it yourself: http://featherandscalefarm.com/goat-health-drawing-blood-for-the-complete-beginner/

I said serious goat diseases were not as much of a concern with a closed herd, not that it wasn't a concern at all. But after 12 years of keeping goats with strict biosecurity procedures mine have all been tested and have always been free of serious diseases (Johne's, CAE, CL, Scrapie) and healthy. And I've introduced animals from various sources over the years. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Basic biosecurity measures are free and pretty easy to implement such as:

Not allowing goat owners into fields, housing and areas where your goats reside.
You can also take the extra precaution of not allowing any visitors in those areas.

Trimming your own goats' hooves - not hiring or having someone to do it for you.
Trimming/shearing your own goats' hair/coat - not hiring or having someone do it for you.

Not visiting livestock auctions - which can be a source for seriously diseased animals. (Why anyone would try to make a profit on a dying or sick animal is beyond me but you must be aware that this is a reality.)

Not attending shows - or utilizing great caution and quarantining animals that return from shows.
Not purchasing animals from anyone that you do not trust.
Not purchasing animals from anyone that you know has had an outbreak of a serious disease - hoof rot is also something to look out for, particularly if they also own sheep.

Purchasing animals from closed herds that have been known to be disease-free for years in a row.
Quarantining new animals - hopefully with a companion as you do not want an animal alone which can stress them unnecessarily.
Deworming new or returning animals while in quarantine with an herbal wormer - DWorm A is the most effective out there to help with parasite "bloom" that almost always occurs from the stress of traveling.

Not leasing out bucks.
Not offering driveway breeding services.
Not feeding kids milk replacer - much of the cow milk supply is contaminated with Johne's disease - the USDA allows Johne's-positive cows to continue to produce milk at licensed dairies despite the fact that it might be linked to Crohn's disease and is transmissable to other species, animals and possibly even humans.

Practicing great caution when purchasing hay, which is an often overlooked source of disease.

Avoiding hay grown with animal waste/byproducts (see hay mites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapie#Transmission/exposure_pathways)
Buying hay from local farmers and asking questions - what was it fertilized with? If they say bio-sludge, or human waste, avoid at all costs! If they say poultry manure, steer clear. If they say cattle manure that was spread, well, cattle are the main source of Johne's so avoid if at all possible.

If the hay pastures were grazed by healthy, unvaccinated, non-medicated animals who have no history of any major or serious disease(s), and the pastures have been allowed time to rest (for months), then that would be different, and hay from such a source would be ideal, but be sure to ask a lot of questions and visit and see the hay-farmer's animals for yourself so you are comfortable that it is a safe source.

Avoid buying hay from a farmer that has recently tilled his pasture fields, wait until some months have passed to avoid pathogen "bloom" on hay that might be contaminated with freshly tilled soil.
Avoid moldy hay, or hay that has not been harvested and stored properly (kept out of the rain).
Never tell your hay source that it is intended for goats, most hay sources think that goats will eat anything but in reality goats are very sensitive to molds so avoid hay sold for cattle, and ask for horse-quality hay which is much safer. Horses, like goats, cannot tolerate mold so hay farmers produce better quality hay for them.

Avoiding conventional antibiotics which permanently disrupt the gut microbiome and cause lifelong changes in the intricate balance of their digestive tract and beneficial bacteria thereby weakening the animal's immune system (most of the immune system is in the gut). Use Paxxin and Kochi Free instead.
Avoiding feed known to contain animal byproducts (listed on the label).
Avoiding feed contaminated with animal byproducts not listed (think national feed brands).

Avoiding vaccinations (Scrapie, a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy or neurodegenerative -brain deterioration- disease, has been transmitted to goats through contaminated vaccines: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11354646 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12655108 )

Instead, use safe alternatives: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p424/Herb_Mix_ClostridEaze_(enterotoxemia,_overeating)_8_oz.html
GI Soother for coccidiosis prevention, a pinch in the mouth is all you need for goat kids

There's also some great advice from Land of Havilah Farm on their health practices: https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/natural-raising/land-of-havilah-herd-health-practices/

I have never seen nor heard of a case of Johne's, CAE or CL in any herd that did not have a history, or whose animals did not have a history, of vaccination and antibiotics. Those are not diseases that an animal can catch out of the blue. They have to be introduced into your herd, whether through the introduction of new disease-carrying animals and/or vaccinations - which always contain animal byproducts and are not tested to be free of these diseases - and/or milk replacer and/or feed containing or contaminated with animal byproducts. Milk replacer is also a big risk factor that most people are not even aware of. You can read more about Johne's here: https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/n...lpful-information/blood-testing-for-diseases/


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

jdragr said:


> The buck is separated. We did that when we knew it was close to time. He isn't happy about it.
> 
> We are already seeing one of the bucklings being "bucky". Do I worry about that?
> 
> And I told my husband that the does needed a break. He thought we should breed again for a fall kidding. Who is correct?


Don't worry about the buckling activity untill he is 3 months old. Buckling will act like a buck at 2 days old, mounting other kids and squeaky grunting. Its normal. But he is not virile before 3 months old.


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

jdragr said:


> OK...need help here. How do I test for Johnes, CAE and CL?
> 
> What do you mean by cocci prevention? I know to check their eyelids.


Toltrazuril is a great Coccidia Preventitive drug. 1 dose. 3cc orally when the kid is 3 weeks old. Much better than the 5 day doses of Corid or Di-methox. Can order it from www.horseprerace.com. 
Works great for adults to if they have an issue with Coccidia, just up the dose.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I like toltrazuril also. Dose though is 1cc per 5 pounds. A lot of people will do it every 3 weeks. Some will keep doing so for months. It’s going to be one of those things that need to be adjusted for each person. I only give it at 3 and 6 weeks and then after that kids are eating enough of their medicated grain to keep it at bay. It also isn’t USDA approved so I want it well out of their system before they are sold since some of my kids are sold for meat.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

shoafplantation said:


> Don't worry about the buckling activity untill he is 3 months old. Buckling will act like a buck at 2 days old, mounting other kids and squeaky grunting. Its normal. But he is not virile before 3 months old.


Not sure which breed you are referring to, but I assume you are discussing larger, standard size breeds. The opening post mentioned "ND" which I understood as indicating Nigerian Dwarf. ND bucklings can start acting like a buck when only hours old, and virility kicks in at several weeks of age.

A Nigerian Dwarf buckling can successfully breed at 8 weeks old, there have even been a few cases where that happened at a slightly younger age (7 weeks). Granted, that usually means that it is a doeling that is bred, but a shorter doe might squat down to help out and unfortunately that can be a problem. I've had Nigerian Dwarf bucks for over 12 years now so I have experience with the breed and you do have to watch out for those little guys! If you think the buckling could use more milk, or would like to have him weaned a little later, you can separate him at night and supervise morning and evening "milkings" - or more often if you have the time - and then put him back in his separate field/pen. Most don't let ND bucklings have milk for more than 10 weeks, 12 weeks tops. But only with separation. The screaming might not be worth it though, so by far the most common method is to wean and separate him all at once, at 8 weeks. If he's weaker or smaller then you might consider the separated milking option.

Check out the following article, where it mentions that ND "Bucklings can be fertile at as young as 7 weeks of age": http://www.ndga.org/origins-of-the-nigerian-goat.html


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> I like toltrazuril also. Dose though is 1cc per 5 pounds. A lot of people will do it every 3 weeks. Some will keep doing so for months. It's going to be one of those things that need to be adjusted for each person. I only give it at 3 and 6 weeks and then after that kids are eating enough of their medicated grain to keep it at bay. It also isn't USDA approved so I want it well out of their system before they are sold since some of my kids are sold for meat.


Right, meat goats have about a 6 month hold time if using Toltrazuril. Mine are all Nigerian Dwarf, so just sold as pets or future milkers/breeders. My kids are usually 10-15 lbs at 3 weeks old.


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

aJadeMagnolia said:


> Not sure which breed you are referring to, but I assume you are discussing larger, standard size breeds. The opening post mentioned "ND" which I understood as indicating Nigerian Dwarf. ND bucklings can start acting like a buck when only hours old, and virility kicks in at several weeks of age.
> 
> A Nigerian Dwarf buckling can successfully breed at 8 weeks old, there have even been a few cases where that happened at a slightly younger age (7 weeks). Granted, that usually means that it is a doeling that is bred, but a shorter doe might squat down to help out and unfortunately that can be a problem. I've had Nigerian Dwarf bucks for over 12 years now so I have experience with the breed and you do have to watch out for those little guys! If you think the buckling could use more milk, or would like to have him weaned a little later, you can separate him at night and supervise morning and evening "milkings" - or more often if you have the time - and then put him back in his separate field/pen. Most don't let ND bucklings have milk for more than 10 weeks, 12 weeks tops. But only with separation. The screaming might not be worth it though, so by far the most common method is to wean and separate him all at once, at 8 weeks. If he's weaker or smaller then you might consider the separated milking option.
> 
> Check out the following article, where it mentions that ND "Bucklings can be fertile at as young as 7 weeks of age": http://www.ndga.org/origins-of-the-nigerian-goat.html


Yes, good artical for the most part. But I would rather put more trust in first hand knowledge/experience than what someone reports. 
I only raise Nigerian Dwarfs and I have been doing so for many years. I let my buckling and doelings stay together with the herd of moms usually about 2 months but as long as 3 months. Ive never seen a doeling come into heat before 6 month old. And never had a buckling breed before 4 months old. I realize rare and strange things do happen, but I wouldn't base my normal operations on abnormalities.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Your buck needs a companion--either a wether or another buck. 

Copper boluses are a good idea as copper deficiency is very common with goats.


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## aJadeMagnolia (May 18, 2018)

shoafplantation said:


> Yes, good artical for the most part. But I would rather put more trust in first hand knowledge/experience than what someone reports.
> I only raise Nigerian Dwarfs and I have been doing so for many years. I let my buckling and doelings stay together with the herd of moms usually about 2 months but as long as 3 months. Ive never seen a doeling come into heat before 6 month old. And never had a buckling breed before 4 months old. I realize rare and strange things do happen, but I wouldn't base my normal operations on abnormalities.


I agree. And some lines are slower to mature than others. The first line I acquired came from a breeder who told me that she had had problems with a buckling, and he was only 2 months old. I have had many, many ND doelings come into heat at 3 months old, some even younger. One could say that that line is particularly boy-crazy and girl-crazy and mature quite quickly but depending on what line(s) a person has that problem might not be as rare for certain herds. I've had that to worry about for 12 years now, so I am speaking from experience. Some of NC PromisedLand's line is particularly slow to reach sexual maturity. Some question whether some of that line are truly purebred ND, but that is another matter altogether. Once you know your herd and understand what to expect from the line(s) you have it is much easier to make decisions and determine what separation age is best for your herd, but for someone new to the breed, I thought they might like to know the age range for avoiding breeding accidents can and does vary.


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

Gotcha.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Yesterday we gave our adults Replamin Gel and trimmed hooves. Our buck had a scur. We bought him disbudded. His scur had turned in and we knew it would grow into his head. We tried to trim it and the whole thing came off. He is fine..just wasn’t expecting that. Guessing it was loose already. 

Today we plan on doing cocci prevention. We have never done this. Trying to be better goat mom. I ordered toltrazuril. My daughter is pre vet and her first words were... that is for horses. So I explained we were using off label. So am I right that dosage is 1 cc per 5 lbs orally? Since I’ve never dosed my adults do I do them as well? When do I repeat?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Yes you have the dosage correct. I would run a fecal on adults, make sure they check for cocci , and dose only if needed. Are they receiving a cocci prevention in the feed?


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

goatblessings said:


> Yes you have the dosage correct. I would run a fecal on adults, make sure they check for cocci , and dose only if needed. Are they receiving a cocci prevention in the feed?


We feed Dumor pellet. It doesn't say medicated.

My does I bought as bottle babies and it was before I knew anything so they never received anything.

Can we give their CD/T vaccinations today also or should we wait? Again I've never vaccinated.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

As long as everyone appears healthy and not fighting any disease, I would go ahead and vaccinate. Run a fecal on adults to see if they need cocci meds. Tolturazil is effective but pricey - just make sure if you need it or not.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

goatblessings said:


> As long as everyone appears healthy and not fighting any disease, I would go ahead and vaccinate. Run a fecal on adults to see if they need cocci meds. Tolturazil is effective but pricey - just make sure if you need it or not.


Thanks so much! I know I can always count on you guys!


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## shoafplantation (May 18, 2018)

Love Toltrazuril. So easy, and so effective.


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