# Struggling to Understand Width, Depth, and Length...



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

I've really been working on my understanding of conformation pros and cons lately, and I think I'm making good progress, but I'm struggling with a few things. 

Can anyone offer some tips too help me wrap my brain around the width/length/depth aspects? It seems that the ideal dairy goat is wide, long, and also deep. But when you have all three of these, don't you just have a bigger goat? 😆

I know I MUST be missing something because that just can't be it lol. But I can't figure it out!


----------



## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Following this tread. I have the same problem!


----------



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Good to know I'm not alone! Hahaha


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Most things are middle of the road. You want width without being coarse. Your dairy goat shouldn't be heavy through the the shoulders like a meat goat. They should be wedge shaped when looking down on them.
Depth shouldn't be just a thick goat. The goat should have well sprung ribs and slope gently from brisket to udder. 
Length is annoying me right now. Everyone is breeding goats so long that they are losing leg length. If the trend continues we will start having the issues of the modern German shepherd. Nigerian goats in particular are becoming medium sized goats on short legs and losing their dairy type. Some seem to be breeding them back to pygmy type. 
Above all the goats should be well balanced and graceful. They should move freely and lightly.


----------



## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I’m following to learn too!


----------



## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

goathiker said:


> Most things are middle of the road. You want width without being coarse. Your dairy goat shouldn't be heavy through the the shoulders like a meat goat. They should be wedge shaped when looking down on them.
> Depth shouldn't be just a thick goat. The goat should have well sprung ribs and slope gently from brisket to udder.
> Length is annoying me right now. Everyone is breeding goats so long that they are losing leg length. If the trend continues we will start having the issues of the modern German shepherd. Nigerian goats in particular are becoming medium sized goats on short legs and losing their dairy type. Some seem to be breeding them back to pygmy type.
> Above all the goats should be well balanced and graceful. They should move freely and lightly.


Well said👏👏


----------



## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

@Feira426 , I would have said something, but Goathiker blew my boat out of the water lol. Everything was well said


----------



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

goathiker said:


> Most things are middle of the road. You want width without being coarse. Your dairy goat shouldn't be heavy through the the shoulders like a meat goat. They should be wedge shaped when looking down on them.
> Depth shouldn't be just a thick goat. The goat should have well sprung ribs and slope gently from brisket to udder.
> Length is annoying me right now. Everyone is breeding goats so long that they are losing leg length. If the trend continues we will start having the issues of the modern German shepherd. Nigerian goats in particular are becoming medium sized goats on short legs and losing their dairy type. Some seem to be breeding them back to pygmy type.
> Above all the goats should be well balanced and graceful. They should move freely and lightly.


This was very helpful! Thank you! I do have one question - what do you mean by well-sprung ribs??


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

When you look from the top, you don't want it flat from shoulders to rump. You want a triangle. The ribs spring out from the side.

Also added a couple on dairy strength and depth.

I agree about length on what was posted above. Length for me involves a few things that basically equal balance. Length can be from shoulders to tail. In that aspect you are looking for equal thirds of the chine, loin, and rump. There is also length from behind the front legs to the rear legs (stomach level).You don't really want them like a slinky dog, but you are aiming for balance.


----------



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Oooh - I've looked at these before but never understood the spring of rib bit until now. But I think your description made it click for me! It's like how the ribs flare out a little, so basically the goat is wider near the lower mid area of the ribs than, say, at the top of the ribs. Is that right?


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Kind of. Look at the comparison of the two does. The one on the right, her ribs look like they are just almost flat from the spine towards the floor. The doe on the left, it looks like they gently come from her spine and come out and then slope to the floor. Making an arch? Maybe that gives a better idea.


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Those back ribs springing out helps give her barrel room as well


----------



## FarmerDad (Apr 28, 2021)

Jubillee said:


> When you look from the top, you don't want it flat from shoulders to rump. You want a triangle. The ribs spring out from the side.
> 
> Also added a couple on dairy strength and depth.


Where did you get those photographs? They were AWESOME! I've been sitting on all the appriasal and assessment "guides" just going "I don't see it. I don't understand." But those pictures and the "Breeder's Insight"... I need more! I understand!


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Hmmm those specific ones were off a link, let me see if I can find the full link with all the pics. I have a folder with so many pics I have saved that helps understand various parts of the animal.

Here is the full link: https://cornerstonefarm.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Easy-Dairy-Goat-Conformation.pdf

And my folder that has additional pics and such to learn from: Dairy Goat Conformation Education - Google Drive


----------



## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

You can also feel your goat for spring of rib.... should be flat and gradually increasing in width from front to back. If you have the opportunity to attend some shows and listen to judges comments on placings, it's a great education and will help train your eye. I always like to get my hands on a goat to really feel what is going on.


----------



## FarmerDad (Apr 28, 2021)

goatblessings said:


> If you have the opportunity to attend some shows and listen to judges comments on placings, it's a great education and will help train your eye.


I used to try to do this at rabbit shows when my daughters bred rabbits. It always sounded like they were talking in code. I'd have to go up to the judge afterwards and having him explain it to me "in English"


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Yea hands on and someone there showing you is the best! Opened my eyes to a lot of things.


----------



## FarmerDad (Apr 28, 2021)

Jubillee said:


> Yea hands on and someone there showing you is the best! Opened my eyes to a lot of things.


Made friends with this one judge out of Colorado and all the people who showed my daughter's breed rabbit (small community). After the official judging, I'd get the judge to basically rejudge the rabbits with me on the other side mimicking him. Learned a lot but it took some courage I don't usually have to approach the judge asking for a repeat and the other exhibitors patience and not taking their rabbits away right away... Turns out the other exhibitors appreciated the run down. We all ended up learning a lot by the end of that show year.


----------

