# Vit B complex



## toth boer goats

Can you give it down the throat instead of injecting it or are the benefits of giving it that way ....not worth that process... The reason for this question is ... I know so many have Polio striking out there and wanted to know , instead of jabbing them with shots of it ...making them a pin cushion... if it will work just as good down the throat? If so ...is the dosage different and how much..how often?

Thanks everyone... :thumb:


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## liz

Pam..I'm not sure of dosing the injectible orally, but with the 2 cases I've had..I had continued Thiamine treatments by giving the human tablets of B1 3x a day for 5 days AFTER the 48 hours of injections.

I seriously don't see where it would hurt but I think that the concept of injecting the B Complex is because the matabolism is so high...it's in and out, injecting it gets into the blood quicker.


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## milkmaid

I bought a human oral B-complex for my goats. Don't know anything about the injectable form though. :shrug:


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## toth boer goats

Thanks...
Hmm...OK....I guess it won't have the same benefit... to help with Polio...

How about after a worming or cocci treatment? will it work as a preventive that way or is best just to inject it?...
Using it either down the throat or injected.... when is the best time to use it...during or after and is one dose good enough as a preventive.. cause I know using these products tear down the thiamine?


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## KW Farms

Ya know I could have sworn I read somewhere that it can be given orally, but I am not positive. I'll see if I can't find some info. on it. 

I always injected it when needed, but I really hate doing it.


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## toth boer goats

Thanks Kylee.. :hug:


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## KW Farms

No problem. :hi5:

Ok, I found several things on it. It can be given orally, but some are under the impression that it does not work as effectively that way. I don't think there's really been much study done to see if given orally vs. injected has a difference. As a preventative I think orally would work fine, but for treatment, injected may have more of an influence. After worming or cocci treatment...if those were given orally...I think you'd want to do the Vit B injected. :shrug:

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications.htm#vitb All this says is the dosage and that you can give it orally.


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## toth boer goats

Thanks Kylee.....Hmm.. it seems that injected the "Ouch"method... is the best way... as no one knows 100%...that the down the throat method works as well or not ....thanks so much for finding this out for me.....I appreciate that... :greengrin: :hi5: :thumb:


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## peggy

Is the injection done SubQ ir IM??


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## KW Farms

It'd be SQ Peggy. :thumb:

And no problem Pam...good question...made me curious.


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## toth boer goats

:wink: 

I went to Fias Co Farm site... they do not take emails anymore ..  so... I went to face book Fias Co Farm and asked questions about giving it orally on face book their wall....... they seem to be the only ones... that are recommending it that way.... 

if I hear back from them... I will post it here..... :wink:


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## freedomstarfarm

I have given it orally to a doe that didn't want her grain. If injected I give at 1cc per 20# and orally I double the dose. It has worked for me fine but the goat was still ok just lowered appetite. I did it for 3 days and she was back to normal.


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## toth boer goats

cool thanks... :greengrin:


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## StaceyRosado

Ive tried orally and it didnt bring back the appetite like injecting does.

but the B 12 paste works to bring back the appetite.

So Im not sure (need to check) but there is possibly more in the paste then the injectable because the injectable is meant to go into the system differently. :shrug:


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## toth boer goats

:wink: thanks Stacey... you are probably correct... :wink: :thumb:


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## Sunny Daze

well b12 is the main b vitamin that aids in picking up appetite so probably why the b12 paste worked better for that than b-complex. I use b-complex injected. Although if you are really concerned about polio you need straight b1 to get enough thiamine in their system. Honestly, if a goat is that off I would rather inject it and make sure it gets where it needs to go. Why take the chance? B vitamins don't really sting like some of the other meds.


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## StaceyRosado

Oh I know bcomplex has all the B vitamines

also Bcomplex does sting badly. Thats why my vet said to put it into the SQ fluid bubbles when Ihad to give so much


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## Sunny Daze

hhmm, well mine never fuss much over it. I know b1 doesn't seem to bother them one bit. I give them IM.


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## toth boer goats

> well b12 is the main b vitamin that aids in picking up appetite so probably why the b12 paste worked better for that than b-complex. I use b-complex injected. Although if you are really concerned about polio you need straight b1 to get enough thiamine in their system. Honestly, if a goat is that off I would rather inject it and make sure it gets where it needs to go. Why take the chance? B vitamins don't really sting like some of the other meds.


 You are right about the straight Thiamine with Polio...but.. if someone can't get it...then the vit B complex is a common vitamin sold in feed stores all around.... so ..I was wondering about so many injections given to the poor animal and if given down the throat would be just as good...but evidently not... then got me thinking... what about a preventive after treatment..down the throat.....which is questionable and only Fias Co Farm lists it on their site as "orally"..
Hearing about the b12 paste that is quite logical.....for down the throat...

I still haven't heard back from Fias Co Farm on facebook yet... hoping to hear something soon...


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## toth boer goats

Just heard from Fias Co Farm...

This was my question on Facebook...


> Question????Vit B complex(injectable liquid) you say it can be given orally, how does it work in comparison to the injection method? Whether it be for treatment of Polio or when they need it after a round of antibiotics / wormers ect. When is the best time to give it, when giving antibiotics/wormers, before, during or after treatment and is 1 dose enough or? No one else seems to know the answers, I would really be grateful and appreciate any info about it, thanks Pam


And the answer... not much help....


> Michelle Ford
> http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications ... l.htm#vite
> 
> States you can give 500-1000 IU daily starting three weeks before kidding. I also give it a day after worming, weekly after kidding, and when ever I think my goats coats are looking a bit rough.I have only used the oral version because it is cheaper to buy a bottle of people pills. I generally give it with selenium, I read somewhere that they work together and our feed is deficient here(but I limit the selenium to once a week if needed due to risk of toxicity). After worming I also mix it with a cocktail of extra vitamins and iron. Sorry I don't know anything about polio.
> 2 hours ago · Like


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## KW Farms

Hmm...didn't really answer the questions.


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## toth boer goats

I know, it's like how can she have it on her site but yet ...not have an answer to it? :scratch:


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## KW Farms

I was under the impression that it would have the same effect either way looking at their website...but now i'm not so sure.


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## toth boer goats

Me neither... that's why I want to gets answers... but it didn't happen ... :scratch: 

I am going to ask another breeder that knows quite a bit and see what she says...I will let you know ........ :wink:


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## KW Farms

:thumb:


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## toth boer goats

OK... I heard back from the breeder ...and she doesn't give it down the throat....

This is what she said....



> We use fortified vitamin B complex routinely under the skin. When we transport the animals, with antibiotics, with diarrhea, with dewormer, etc...
> We use 1-3 cc/ml per 100 pounds given under the skin once a day during the entire time while using antibiotics or with diarrhea.
> We use 3 cc/ml for signs of polio twice a day from 10- 14 days.
> We use one dose with transporting.
> 
> I have not seen other breeders use this vitamin in the mouth.


So I am not so sure... it works very well down the throat....
well... vit B complex injectable anyway..... :wink:


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## KW Farms

Thanks for posting Pam. :thumb: That's interesting.


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## 3stooges

Since B vitamins are so important for goats, why don't they put in their food or treats? Which I don't see it listed on anything for goats. I've read the vitamin B1 is destroyed by heat, but not the other b's. :shrug:


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## toth boer goats

> Thanks for posting Pam. :thumb: That's interesting.


 Your very welcome Kylee.... :thumb:



> Since B vitamins are so important for goats, why don't they put in their food or treats? Which I don't see it listed on anything for goats. I've read the vitamin B1 is destroyed by heat, but not the other b's. :shrug:


3stooges...It could very well be what you just mentioned ..it is destroyed by heat....Thiamine(B1) is the most important of all the B vitamins.....in goats... as we have been seeing alot lately... with Polio striking the goats.... You would think.. with all the technology ...they would think of something different..Haa :wink:


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## 3stooges

Yeah Pam, like a top dressing or something. I'm sure they know by know animal people will buy anything to help kept their children/animals healthy. 

See where lentils, kidney beans, and navy beans are good source of B1. Thinking of getting some dried ones and adding to their feed. What is anyone's thought on this?


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## toth boer goats

You know... that may work...great idea.... :thumb:


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## 3stooges

Thanks, I pick up some next time at the store.


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## toth boer goats

:thumbup:


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## Calico Patch Farm

I have a friend that had a goat that just seemed off. She got human B12 tablets, crushed them up, dissolved them in water, and gave it orally. She did that for 7 days and now the goat is back to normal. We are going to try that and see if it works as well as she said it did.


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## toth boer goats

Let us know the results..... :thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm

Thamine is also light sensitive. It must not be exposed to light or it looses its effectiveness.


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## toth boer goats

> Thamine is also light sensitive. It must not be exposed to light or it looses its effectiveness.


You are so right Logan... forgot about that.... :thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm

Just got off the phone with a good ruminant vet. He says that B Complex is much better when injected either SQ or IM. When given orally the rumen breaks it down so quick that it doesn't have near the same effect. If given orally the dose must be much more than injected but still injected is better.


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## PznIvyFarm

What about the backorder problem? TSC still doesn't have any


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## freedomstarfarm

I got my Fortified B Complex from my vet. I am not sure if it is backordered elsewhere.


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## toth boer goats

> Just got off the phone with a good ruminant vet. He says that B Complex is much better when injected either SQ or IM. When given orally the rumen breaks it down so quick that it doesn't have near the same effect. If given orally the dose must be much more than injected but still injected is better.


 Wow thank you for finding that out.... now I know... that I will continue to inject it.... thanks again Logan.. very appreciated :thumb: :hi5:


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## freedomstarfarm

Sure thing.  
He is highly recommended and the state expert on cows but also does goats. It is good info to have. I had done orally before and now will stick with injected.


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## toth boer goats

:hi5: :thumb: :hug:


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## KW Farms

Thanks for the info. Logan! :thumb:


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## goathiker

B-1 crumbles and liquid for top dressing aren't hard to find...just look at the horse products.
http://www.jmsaddler.com/BlueStallionProducts.php


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## toth boer goats

> B-1 crumbles and liquid for top dressing aren't hard to find...just look at the horse products.
> http://www.jmsaddler.com/BlueStallionProducts.php


 Thanks for the link goathiker....very appreciated... :thumb: :greengrin:


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## Mandara Farm

This is a helpful thread. How often do you all give your goats B-complex? On an as-needed basis, or on a regular schedule? Or both?


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## toth boer goats

> This is a helpful thread. How often do you all give your goats B-complex? On an as-needed basis, or on a regular schedule? Or both?


 Thanks 

I give it after they have been on... or
Antibiotics
Cocci meds
If they have the scours 
Have been stressed
being transported
off feed
Ate bad feed
to increase appetite
For Polio treatment

Anytime a goat is Off... as the thiamine in their bodies can be depleted
very easily... during things mentioned above.. :wink:

that is some of the things it is used for :thumb:


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## goathiker

I also add B1 to hiking rations when we are hiking forest land. Scouring rush (horsetail) and braken fern deplete B1 in the rumen. This way I don't have to worry about them grabbing a few bites even on a daily basis.


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## toth boer goats

Good idea goathiker... :thumb: :greengrin:


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## chandy

I purchased some B complex at tsc and someone told me to only give 1cc per 100 pounds? That seems like so little....is it correct? and how often can i give it to them? Thanks


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## toth boer goats

This is what the label says...


> Adult Cattle- 1 to 2 mL per 100 pounds body weight.Calves, Swine and Sheep- 5 mL per 100 pounds of body weight.


You can use 1-5 cc/ml per 100 pounds given under the skin....depending on.. the reason why it is used... for Polio it is dosed more than once per day......Vit B complex ...can be given daily and does not hurt them... can't over dose because they will pee out what their bodies don't need.... :wink:


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## goathiker

Sometimes B Complex alone isn't enough for Polio. I wonder if the B1 liquid orally would 'boost' it enough for the people who can't get injectable Thiamin.


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## toth boer goats

> Sometimes B Complex alone isn't enough for Polio. I wonder if the B1 liquid orally would 'boost' it enough for the people who can't get injectable Thiamin.


 The injection is better given to the goats ...their system is different...when given down the throat ...it mostly goes right through their system quickly... not helping a Polio outbreak.... :wink:


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## goathiker

I meant giving them the injectable B complex and also giving the B1 liquid orally to get MORE Thiamine into their system. "Boosting" the B complex shot.


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## toth boer goats

It may help ... but not sure how much.... :wink:


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## scubacoz

I just read all this thanks.....so good information


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