# Help!



## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hi!

I am a newbie to the site, will write a newbie thread shortly, just want to get this ball rolling first.

I have a 5 month old Rawhiti buck. (Rawhiti is a rare feral goat breed in NZ)

He is 1 of a set of twins, doe and buck. We took them from their mother at 2 weeks of age, as their mother was being used on a milking trial, and we were desperate for some of our own Rawhiti babies. 

They eventually got the hang of bottle feeding, but the buck has always been a little bit slower than his sister. He often seems in a daze, and will stargaze gnashing his jaw (as if he's tasting something that isn't there??)

At 5 months old he should be acting bucky, but not at all! He's never put on much weight, and hardly eats any roughage. Multifeed nuts/hay etc. His sister will get into anything and everything on offer at the time. 

He is the same size as his sister also.

We weaned them a week or so ago, and noticed 2 days ago he was in the pen not wanting to move anywhere looking at me with a lean in his head. He couldn't walk very well, was walking like he was drunk. 

Took him to the vet and by this point he was looking like he was about to die. Head down, dribbling, unresponsive. I was very very worried. The vet wasn;t sure what to do either. Gave me some antibiotics, multivit injection and an extra injection for B Vitamin (incase it's polio) to be given 1/2 ml daily. 

Overnight he perked up and was excited to see me in the morning with a bottle for him (with some energy tonic also with milk). He had his morning feed, and arvo feed, and when I came back inside I thought he was dead on the floor. Rigid, unable to hold his head up and very very unresponsive. I thought he was a goner. We gave him the vit b shot, and waited a few hours. Nothing. He was going in and out of consciousness, dribbiling everywhere. I decided we needed to put him out of his misery, and at the final moment the OH thought there may be a chance to save him (if it's polio, the vit b shot might bring him back). Sure enough overnight he managed to get up, and in the morning he was on his feet again. 

I have taken him outside in a pen and put him on the lawn today, where he is picking at grass but not eating. Same with hay. 

I am syringe feeding him milk/vegemite/ketol and soon to be vigest to get some goodness into him as he is fading away. the vet is giving us more B Vit to inject twice a day.

Does this seem like Polio to you guys?

How am I able to know if he has a long term brain issue here? It definately seems like something brain related.

Sorry for the long winded post, i'm quite worried about my little man.

Any help/ideas appreciated. 

Thanks,
Emma


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be treating for polio and listeriosis. Also have a fecal done to see if he has coccidia. He probably needs high doses of thiamine.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

I agree with Karen...I think the "stargazing and gnashing" is just him chewing his cud lol, my does always seem out of it when they do it  Hope your little guy gets better! And welcome to TGS!


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hmm yes, the vet did a fecal when I took him there. Didn't think it was Coccidia.. I also forgot to mention he's basically had scours on and off for awhile now. We wormed them, and the vet did a booster wormer yesterday also.
It's terrible to watch him like this!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Polio needs to be treated every 12 hours with Thiamine until 24 hours After he is well....I would add High doses of Penicillan as well since polio and Listeroisis mimick many of the same symptoms..how ever since the B brings him around Im more incliced to think Goat Polio..if you can not get Pure Thiamine then Fortified B complex will help..but larger doses are needed...
here is an article to explain both and http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html medication and dose for each


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Thanks for that.. Have been reading that, it's a great website. Yes, will be dosing him twice a day with the vitb, and giving him vigest which is basically a food type tonic which has thiamine in it also. Here's hoping he pulls through.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had a buck a few years ago with Goat Polio..my first case...he went blind....he recovered 100% with Thiamine treatment...I did however give it to him a few weeks after he was well..just to be sure he didnt have a relaps..maybe Im a worry wart lol...but it doesnt hurt...best wishes


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

How much thiamine is in your B vits? How big is this buck kid? I fear you aren't giving enough. I'd give it at least 3 time/day. If you can get straight 500mg/ml thiamine from your vet, that would be best.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

He should be getting 1 cc per 25# if you are using 100 MG thiamine or 1 cc per 100# if you are using 500 mg Thiamine..every 12 hours at least


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> He should be getting 1 cc per 25# if you are using 100 MG thiamine or 1 cc per 100# if you are using 500 mg Thiamine..every 12 hours at least


That sounds right. But if it was my kid and I thought it was getting desperate, I would give 500mg per dose for an older kid.


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

I'm not sure of the mg of Thiamine the vet is giving, he weighed him, and he's 7.4kg (skin and bones) but he told us to 1/2 mil mornin and night from now. The packet he put it in just says "B1"


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

ArapawaHills said:


> I'm not sure of the mg of Thiamine the vet is giving, he weighed him, and he's 7.4kg (skin and bones) but he told us to 1/2 mil mornin and night from now. The packet he put it in just says "B1"


Whoa. He's just a little guy. I'd stick with what your vet said to do. Sounds like you have the straight thiamine anyway.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Tenacross....sounds like he is getting what he needs...: )


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

I just bought him back inside after a day on the lawn. He just seems so depressed, it feels cruel to keep him like this.. How long until I see an improvement do you think?

I'm hoping I don't have to go into work tomorrow (i was off sick today, actually sick too), so that I can have another day of nursing. Not sure what will happen when I have to go into work. 

And yes, he is small. They're not a meat goat, but he weighs less than when I took him into see the vet in March.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you can read about my buck on my web site...see if thisis what your little guy is going through... happybleatsdairygoats.webly.com...click Goat Drama and a slide out link will show..click Dozers story


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Cathy - Yes, this sounds fairly similar. 

He's sortof nibbling on stuff, but he hasn't wanted to take his bottle since yesterday morning/arvo. So we've been syringing him everything we feeed him which makes it quite hard.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Have you treated this kid for cocci? I would treat him anyway...if he was scouring before he could have more then one thing going on. And, I would be giving him much more thiamine then .5ml? I would give him 3-4mls every 6 hours. I know it's a lot...but...it won't hurt him. I would give him Sulmet, also, 1ml/5lbs day one. 1ml/10lbs day 2-5.

Only you and he can tell when he has "had enough". If he's still "fighting for life" I would fight for him. Mother Nature doesn't get my kids without a fight!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It took a while for Dozer to be well...If your Thiamine is 500 ml then 1/2 cc should be enough for you little man..I wouldnt give more than 1 cc....however if he is not improving much I would give it every 6 hours instead of every 12...it wont hurt...he should pee out what he does not use...do make sure you go slow when injecting..I would also support the thiamine with a B complex...getting more B will boost his energy and appitite ..Banamine will help with any swelling of the brain due to the polio...1/8 -1/4 cc once a day for no more than 3 days...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

to help encourage a bottle try this...put honey or molasses on your finger...stick your finger way back on his tongue to stimulate his sucking reflex...allow him to suck your finger a few times adding honey each time...have a very warm bottle ready with honey on the nipple...once he is getting very excited about the honey on your finger...slip the nipple in...he will tase the honey first and hopefully drink his milk...make sure to weigh him if you havent lately..give him only 1-% of his weight in oz...to get that number you multiply his weight by 16 to get it in Oz then multiply that by 10%...divide that into 4 feedings..if you can not get him to eat then you may need to tub him to keep him hydrated and fed for strength...


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Thanks for your help guys, just popped on to see your replies. 

The way we're feeding him currently is syringing a small amount (slowly) waiting for him to swallow and then giving him more. It seems to be working, we've made a mixture of milk powder, vigest, ketol (another tonic).

We gave him his 1/2 mil lastnight of B, and thismorning he was sleeping but "stuck" I got his head up and he got up after that, then when we gave him his breakfast and his morning B injection, left him to have a snooze, and in a couple of hours he cried, came in and he was on his side unable to get up. I do note that he is really lopsided and he cant walk straight still. It does seem like he's getting worse not better..  I have to work tomorrow, so have my Mum looking after him so that's good. I'm giving him 5ml vigest every 4 - 6 hours (vigest has Thiamine in it)

His poo is still 98% liquid.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

with watery poop you should add 3 cc every 6 hours CD antitoxin to his treatment...best to give no milk just ectros for 12-24 hours see if he gets firm...
which happened first..the runs or the polio symptoms?


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

What is CD Antitoxin?

He's had runs on and off since we've had him basically. He's never been right at that end. The vet thought to wean him, so we took him down to 250ml a day when his sister was on 500 and that made no difference. Then when we weaned him it got worse.. But it's never been quite this bad


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Did he get colostrum from his mom? 
cd antitoxin kills toxins in the gut...any time a goat is off ...here is a good article on this
http://goat-link.com/content/view/159/168/#.UZqjTyuDQxc

I think based on the onfo here...I would keep him off milk and gran..hay only and electros with a pinch of baking soda...his tummy can not digest well right now..I would give him 3 cc cd antitoxin, thiamine, b complex and if the runs continue I would also treat with neomycin....I would also give probios daily..( at least 304 hours after any antitbiotic treatment)


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

I have another antibiotic here that I haven't given him that the vet gave me. It was a follow up one that the vet gave him on Saturday. DO you think I should give this to him?


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Oops - Yes to the colostrum, he was on his mother for 2 weeks before we got him. Is there any home made electrolyte I can make? I only have general stuff sitting around. Or do I just use the vigest, that in itself is a food http://www.bayeranimal.co.nz/products/vigest.aspx


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..here is a good one:
Homemade ElectrolytesA half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..


When I looked on the back of the electrolytes bag at ingredients the main ingredients were Sugars, Sodium/salts and Potassium along with vitamin and minerals..

He acts like a goat that didnt get colostrum, this is why I asked but two weeks on mom shouldhave got him a nice start on life..I would give the antibiotic your vet gave...Im going to look up vegest..I have not used it before...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..sounds like good stuff : ) .are you mixing it with milk or plain..you can make this electro recipe and add the vigest to it...this will keep him hydtrated while his tummy rest...you canalso give 3 cc pepto to try to dry his bum and sooth his tummy
Many blessings and best wishes for this little guy..


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Oh good, atleast I have molasses now! How much should he be having? Will it matter if it goes cold? Also, I don't think NZ has pepto.. Is there any home made stuff we can use??

I've just put him back on the lawn and he's nibbling at grass again.. but not eating it. 

Is it normal for him to still be so unstable? 

I may wait until OH gets home to do the injections, he's got no skin to pull on his neck and i don't want to waste it..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no its not normal for him to struggle so much...could be he has a internal birth defect..pos. intestinal...or just a bad bug?? Lets hope we can get him strong and past this : ) 
Goathiker suggest for my little man with upset tummy to take a teaspoon of honey and a teaspoon of cinnamon...wipe a finger full on his tongue often throughout the day to help tummy issues...maybe it will help your little man, not sure about a total replacement for pepto....we were just discussing on here about keopectate...maybe a tiny bit could help dry him up..give him a break..but not too much since it can plug him up which might be worse lol..
electros should be as warm as you would give milk...cold may upset his tummy further...I like to warm mine in a pot of very warm water...just set the bottle in to warm...I would give him a few oz at a time..see how much he will drink..a little fed more often is better than too much at once...keeping him hydrated is important..


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

He loves the mixture you suggested. I put a couple of cupfulls in a bowl for him and he's drinking it down. I will take the bowl away for now and give it to him later.

I'll give him some honey/cinnamon also.

Yes, I too wonder if he has a congenital defect. He's never been 100% since we've had him. Always been away with the fairies, and never wanted to eat. He;s nibbled on hay in the past, but not much, and if another goat pushes him away he'll just stand there looking out of it..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awe poor boy...keeping him hydrated will help strengthen him...I had nubianbuck that was sickly...decided I better not sell him..I was going to keep him as a wether pet..i believe he had a bad heart...couldnt run much without being out of breath...he gained strength and was doing great...then at 4 months old he died. just like that. had his morning bottle , was fine...refused his luch...an hour later we lost him...I share only because its good to understand even after all we do to get them past the bad stuff sometimes it is just not to be..but we still try


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

It's funny how people make out that goats are a very hardy animal, but truth be told, they are nothing like as hardy as people make out! I am prepared for if he does die, after all I thought he was dead 2 or 3 times already on Sunday. I am doing what I can to try and look after him, but in the end, if it's his time, it's his time. I believe I am all cried out after Sunday. We even dug a hole to bury him on that day..!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand...been where you are at too many times...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hello, hows your little man today?


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm sorry, did I miss it? Did you treat this kid for cocci?


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hi all,

He's still going. Seems a bit more onto it today, but still not walking straight. He drank his milk from the bowl today, but wouldn't drink at dinner, so syringed him again. 

He's still having the B Shots, and they seem to be working on him. 

We're going to leave it until the weekend to see how he is to decide what to do further. If he gets no better it's not fair on him to keep him like this...

Di - No, we didn't treat him for Cocci, the vet didn't think it was Cocci... I did give him some antibiotics though. I think that was to treat that incase. We're just treating with B1.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It wont hurt to treat for Cocci just in case..when a goat is weak those little boogers take advantage and multiply quickly complicating things...I would also try to get him on the bottle instead of the bowel...there is a little trap door that closes when baby lifts his head to nurse...keeps milk going into the right tummy ..go to goat-link.com and scoll to Baby goat and click digestive system...this article will explain how this works..its a great article, very informative  I tried to copy and paste but kids got me a new lap top and I can figure it out


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hmmm we have tried to get him to take the bottle, but he's not doing it at all  He's happy with the bowl, (mostly). Tried the molasses/sweetness trick to get him drinking from it, but he can't seem to figure out how to do it again which is a huge pain. What do we do to treat for Cocci?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

when he tries to suck..does his tongue fall out? not getting a good suction?
On Cocci...there are a few OTC meds you can use...Sumet or De Methox are the better choices...I would stay clear of Corid...its a thiamine inhibitor and your baby does not need that....Both are oral...I have not used Albon but i have used Sulmet..its bitter nasty stuff...he might act like you poisoned him...it is used straight outof the bottle...even though it says to add to water...go full strength...once a day for five days...1 cc per 5# on day one and 1 cc per 10# day 2-5...


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Nope, his tongue is in, he wants to suckle. He just can't seem to do it. 

I wonder what we can get in NZ For Cocci


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know its a pain but I would keep working with his bottle..if it cant happen then it cant happen,, but do try...lol...
Im not sure what is avaiable for cocci...let me know what you find....


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

I'll try him again on the bottle when I get him home thisevening, see how it goes.. he's getting very grouchy and pushy, sign he's feeling better, but still not going too well. But golly, if I don't feed him as soon as I get up he's grouching at me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

that is a good sign : ) is just safer for him but if he wont take a bottle then you must do what you need to to get him fed


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

He took a bottle tonight. Hurrah. But, he's still pooing water pretty much. So gotta try and battle that.. Hmm :\


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## JessicaAshlee (May 23, 2013)

ArapawaHills said:


> Oops - Yes to the colostrum, he was on his mother for 2 weeks before we got him. Is there any home made electrolyte I can make? I only have general stuff sitting around. Or do I just use the vigest, that in itself is a food http://www.bayeranimal.co.nz/products/vigest.aspx


I recommend using goats milk... It's best. You can buy it almost anywhere if you look. Plus it's not too expensive. Especially for such a young baby!!


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Well 5 months isnt that young really! haha


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## Selah123 (Mar 24, 2013)

I feel for you. It is terrible when you are not sure exactly whats going on for them  I had a 6 month old kid almost die and ended up treating him for everything! He got better but I have no idea what was wrong and what worked! How is he? I think I got some antibiotic for cocci - forget what it was called but if you call and ask the vet they should be able to tell you - Also, just wondering - has he had his 5 in 1 shot? Also, because he is quite sick, he is probably going to pick up worms at some stage - does your drench treat barbers pole worm? as some don't and that would take him down real quick.... I have never heard of goat polio - all new to me - Goats! Everytime you get to grip with one sickness and how to treat it - another one pops up! Hope it goes well. He sounds like he is in very good care. PS - go the vegemite! Works a treat doesn't it!!! Thoughts and prayers going your way


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Sorry I missed this. I really really think this kid needs to be treated for cocci. Ask your vet for Baycox - its a piglet medication used off label for goats. Failing that, ask for Tribrissen, which is also a piglet medication. If they wont give you either of those, next best thing is Trisoprim. All of these are Australian product names so I'm hoping that they will be available in NZ. I really think his big thing is the chronic scours dragging him down. 

I would also be dosing him with Scourban, you need to get that from a vet. 

Go to the feed store, get yourself a bottle of B1 (thiamine) and vitamin C. Give 5ml of each morning and night. Do you have Vytrate electrolytes over there? If so get some of that, and mix it up and give that in his bottle. I wouldnt worry about milk right now. Does he eat solid feed? Hay? Leaves? He is desperately underweight and sick even for his breed.

Ideally you would put him on some IV fluids and get the scours under control and a bit of strength back. 

Really hoping NZ meds are the same as Aus meds and you can get the things I mentioned.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen...hay only no milk..give electrolytes in his bottle with a 1/4 tsp baking soda...The scours wil continue to pull him down...were you able to find anything for Cocci? He sure is a fighter


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Good evenin', 

He has had some antibiotics, I think that was for the chance it could be cocci, he won't eat hay, only nibble at it a bit. But at this point isn't it important he's getting some sort of food? IE Milk?I'm worried that if he stops getting the milk he'll stop eating altogether. I have some scourban from when I took him to the vet for his scours in March. I dosed him a double dose in the morning, and i'll dose him again shortly when i go to feed him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

at five months old he really needs to be eating hay for his rumen to function properly..milk will irritate the tummy and cause more runs...I would keep giving him electros with the bottle...but keep hay in front of him..gettinghim off milk and on hay will help dry him up, also give him dily dose of probiotics to get that flora going.. offer alfalfa if you have it as well or alfalfa pellets..no feed while he is runny..hard ot digest...im going to re read our posts to see what we are missing..(like the fact he is 5 months old lol)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

okie dokie...to back up a bit...5 months is fine to drink electros from a bowl lol..but the bottle is a nice treat for him since he will now take it ...
ask your vet for cocci treatment evenif the fecal said no cocci...I would treat
get a good wormer (I like valbazen, dont know if NZ has it) 
If scours dont get better treating for worms and cocci...treat for bacteria diarrah...an oral antibiotic called neomycin is effective
give him hay to eat..no milk...when Dozer was sick with polio Ihand fed him little balls of hay lol..until he was able to eat well...you might try with your little man
Probiotics to kick his flora in geer.

I know it sounds like a lot, biut he is going through alot..and you have been wonderful with him...


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Ok i'm going to pop into the vet today and have a chat. 

I know the milk won't be helping his gut at all, but the fact he won't eat hay much at all bothers me, as he's wasting away, and if whatever he has doesn';t kill him, I fear him wasting away will... I will look into probiotics also, and maybe see if we can get another treatment for cocci. We already drenched him with an injectable drench on the Sat when i took him in, I also drenched him last month..

Just to keep you all in the loop... He's never been a big eater. If you put him in a paddock with grass, he'll wander around, finding chickens to butt, and not eat. If you hand feed him he'll eat a bit and then walk off not interested. Same with hay, he's never been chubby. THe only time he's ever wanted to eat is with the bottle. It is so SO frustrating. When we used scourban on him back in March when we first went to the vet for Scours, this never cured him, and he always continued to scour after. Just not quite as bad.

His Bday is Jan the 3.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know it must be funstrating!!! He is just unthrifty ...if he has no worms, no cocci, no bacterial diarrah...its hard to say what else his runs and unwillinginess to eat could be...but we will keep digging..
Try this: a bit of alfalfa pellets and soak in water..getit nice and soupy, seeif he will sip it up if not then drench him ..at least it will be food..he really needs long stem food like dry alfalfa or coastal to keep his rumen function going but at least the wet alfalfa drench will keep him fed..have you seen him chew a cud?
Probiotics is a very good idea
are you still givinghim Thiamine or B complex? 
what does the vet use for Cocci? most ours here is a five day treatment except baycox which is one time treatment for preventive or 2 doses ten days apart to treat...
also mention to your vet bacterial diarrah...we use neomycin which is a safe 3 day oral antibiotic...


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hiya, Vets weren't in, so the nurse gave me 6ml more of B1, (i'm giving him 1m morning and night?) and i will take him in on Monday. He's still scouring 100%. 

I gave him a bottle of 6ml Vigest, 2g probiotic and a bit of water to blend and warm and he drank that... So that's good! Then tonight I have blended up Multifeed nuts with some warm water (with a bit o molasses for taste) he had a bit, but wasn't too keen, so i syringed him with some. I guess I need to cut out the milk completely. He's very grumpy at me...... 

I also had to give him a bath. He stinks really, really badly. He was COVERED in poo. Also, his testes have completely disappeared. Although they never really flourished anyway in his poor state...


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

keren said:


> Sorry I missed this. I really really think this kid needs to be treated for cocci. Ask your vet for Baycox - its a piglet medication used off label for goats. Failing that, ask for Tribrissen, which is also a piglet medication. If they wont give you either of those, next best thing is Trisoprim. All of these are Australian product names so I'm hoping that they will be available in NZ. I really think his big thing is the chronic scours dragging him down.
> 
> I would also be dosing him with Scourban, you need to get that from a vet.
> 
> ...


I've been so busy for a few days. I know I get repetitive sometimes, but, thank you Keren. I don't really care what the vet says...I always treat unthrifty kids for cocci. Especially a kid that is scouring. Baycox is the best.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Poor guy. Is he still hanging in there? I'm a relative newbie to all this and you've gotten lots of great suggestions. I mentioned on another thread that goats do get giardia sometimes. It may be something to check out -- if only to eliminate as a contributing factor. If they have giardia, what is supposed to work is 10X the regular dosage of safe-guard dewormer for goats for 5 days, but you have to watch for a negative reaction (as it can affect the liver I think.) You'd need to check with your vet.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

glndg said:


> Poor guy. Is he still hanging in there? I'm a relative newbie to all this and you've gotten lots of great suggestions. I mentioned on another thread that goats do get giardia sometimes. It may be something to check out -- if only to eliminate as a contributing factor. If they have giardia, what is supposed to work is 10X the regular dosage of safe-guard dewormer for goats for 5 days, but you have to watch for a negative reaction (as it can affect the liver I think.) You'd need to check with your vet.


"safe-guard" for goats is fenbendazole suspension 10% (100 mg/mL).

Here is an article on probiotics with specific ones listed for specific parasites and/or conditions: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jpr/2011/610769/


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

valbazen can also treat giardia ..


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hiya,

Went to the vets lastnight, vet was quite surprised with how different he was than last Saturday. We had him on Scourban, and have taken him off his milk. The vet did a poo sample check, no worms and no cocci. He gave him an antibiotic steroid, and gave him some Formula5 (a mineral drench). He said he is not sure what else we can do, just to try and get him to have solid food and keep him building up&#8230; but he may have some permanent brain damage. 

We have mixed up a pellet/water mix and fed it to him, generally by bottle, as this is easier, and he will take it more easily. However, his stools hardened up a lot more for a while, and now they are back to scour status.

I have been advised to try some slippery elm bark, which I will try him on, but failing that, I'm not sure what else to feed him. Unless it's liquid, or very sweet, or basically water, he will not drink/eat it. It is so frustrating and upsetting. Just as you think you're getting ahead, you feel like you're right back where you started.

As far as I know, we don't in NZ, stock anything like "alfalfa pellets".. so I'm not really sure what to do. 

I am starting to think we may be fighitng a losing battle, and maybe he does have something very very wrong with him that is uncurable. 

xx


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry...if he has brain damage..unthrifty wont eat solid food..he maybe a sickly boy his whole life....sounds like your vet is on board to help all he can..hopefully this stuff he gave him will show improvement..


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

It's OK. The scouring bothers me a lot. He's not putting any condition back on.. he's a lot brighter and full of life, but weak and scoury and unhealthy. It's sad. Poor lil guy


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know...its hard....if he would at least put on some weight but Im so glad he is brighter and full of life...hopefully this new meds will work..
I have heard of slippery Elm..might be worth a try..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Ok, what antibiotic did the vet give him? And you mentioned a steroid? Product names please  also what amiunt did he give him, and has he given you more shots to give him at home? 

Alfalfa is the US term for lucerne, though I dont think I would be giving him.something so rich at the moment. I would be ncouraging him to eat dry oaten hay and slowly add in some vran.and then some gentle.grains. 

But - the scouring needs to stop first. I know the vet ran a test for.worms and cocci.bur can he test for bacterial.infection and antibiotic susceptibility?


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

No idea of names sorry - he didn't talk about testing for susceptibility. 

The scouring did stop. It stopped for a couple of days with the scourban, and when we stopped the milk. But thismorning (first day after stopping scourban) he's got the water-runs again. It's as watery as it was when he first got sick. 

The problem with him eating hay, is that he won't actually eat it. He'll eat a couple of flowers from our clover hay, he but won't actually eat it happily. The only way he eats is if something is watery, and coming from either a bottle, or force fed via syringe..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, i really dont think the focus should be eating right now. Im not surprised he doesnt eat solids because it sounds like his stomach is pretty well destroyed. I still think the scours need to be resolved first and foremost. Please ask your vet what product and how much he was given. Did you continue the antibiotic shots at home or was it just the one shot at the vet clinic? I have a feeling he has an underlying infection that hasnt been treated effectively.


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Was just the one at the clinic. I gave him some slippery elm bark (1tsp) thisevening, that's meant to be good for the gut, so hopefully that helps....


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Thats what i was worried about. One antibiotic injection is not going to do squat. He really.needs a course of 5 to 7 days, one shot each day toee if that resolves it. Personally my choice would be a 7 day course of trimethoprim sulfa followed by probiotics to repopulate the gut. If there is no response to the antibiotics within say 4 - 5 days i would change to oxytetracycline and give a full 7 day course of that with one injection daily, again followed by.probiotics to repopulate the gut. If this antibiotic therapy doesnt resolve the issue then i believe you have probably done all you can and i would then consider euthanasia, butni would NOT euthanize until a priper antibiotic treatment has been tried


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im with Karen...no antibiotic should be given once...they need a full course..even here in the states they have a one shot good for seven days ...it does not work ..Goats have a fast metabolism...Hopefully if you can give a full course you might see improvement....


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi Emma,
I'm a newbie too -- joined a few months ago. Going out on a limb here, but what one goat breeder did really intrigues me. She lost several goats to what turned out to be a plant poisoning. Then another goat stopped eating. She snatched the cud out of the mouth of a healthy goat and stuffed it down the goat that was off feed. It worked. What if you took the cud from the healthy sister and gave it to the sick boy? Don't think it could hurt. It's free. The cud from the doe just might have what this guy needs. He still might very well need some other form of treatment such as antibiotics, but the cud might do more for him than commercial probiotics. Maybe some more experienced people would have some insight into how useful or appropriate this procedure may or may not be. (The author says wear gloves.) http://castlerockfarm.blogspot.com/2013/01/happy-its-no-longer-2012.html#more

(It reminds me of a study that hit the news not long ago where people who got fecal transplants from healthy people recovered from Crohns disease and/or IBS. It was so successful, the study was cut short.) 
Vicki


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

glndg, you are correct in that a cud transfer can be a good way to source herd-specific probiotics. It can be difficult to do, and you need to keep it warm and give it to the sick goat straight away. I'm not sure it is more effective than probiotics, but it certainly doesnt hurt. 

I think this guy needs more than just a cud transfer though.


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

Hi all, on the 29 May he was doing a LOT better. Mum had fed him some willow which which is something all goats LOVE and he was very happy chomping away. Best i've seen him. That night he was super happy. The next day he went down hill in the arvo. By the time I went to pick him up he was dead. 

It was my birthday, also.

I'm just glad he's free of pain, and doesn't have to fight anymore.

Thanks for all your help xx


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry... you sure worked hard to help him...:hug:


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I use psyllium for diarrhea. It is a seed husk. It is what is used in metamucil and things like that to ease constipation, but it works for both. It will absorb all the fluid in his intestines and make the poo more solid. It is not a medicine. When you mix it with water, it gels up, so you need to get it into him right after mixing with water. The gel it forms will sooth any inflammation along the lining of the digestive tract, and it will help solidify the poo and help pass any bad things that are lurking along the way.

You can check pharmacies or health food stores for psyllium.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

So sorry. At least he had some happy times before he passed.


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## ArapawaHills (May 20, 2013)

He did. He seemed happy the day before he died. Poor wee man. It's still sad thinking about it. I'm just glad his sister seems to be doin' ok without him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she has you to ove on her and care forher..she will be fine...you were top notch with her brother...he went knowing full well all about love ..


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