# Young Wether with Buck?



## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

Hi! I'm brand new to this forum and am looking forward to some good advice as we are relatively new to the goat world. We bought a pair of two-year-old Nigerian Dwarfs, a buck and a doe about three months ago. We want to keep a buck as we would like to use the doe for milking. Normally he is a sweet guy, but last week we separated him from his girl, and he's been ornery since. We're pretty sure she's pregnant (and may have been already when we got her), but he is still in rut. So that's problem #1: When is this rutting thing going stop for awhile? Should we put the doe out of his sight? Problem #2: We tried this and he bawled, so we got him a wether buddy, but the only one I could find within driving distance was only three months old. The wether is a sweet little guy, but we're worried the buck will hurt him as he gets as romantic with him as he did with the doe. So, we put the wether in with the doe and the buck freaked out, bawled and wailed and ran around like a crazy thing until we brought them both back into his sight. A fence separates them now, the buck on one side, the doe and wether on the other. But, the doe isn't particularly fond of the wether as she seems to want to isolate herself due to the (we think) pregnancy. And the buck is doing a number on our fence trying to get to the other two, plus when we attempt to put him in his barn at night and the other two in their barn, the buck goes nuts. Help! We love them all and don't want to sell any of them. We just want them (and us) to be happy and find a little peace. Advice?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Welcome to TGS and the world of goats!  

Bad news... he's going to stay in rut until at least January. Yes, blubber and all. My buck practically never leaves his section of fence shared with the does during rut, even at night, in the rain, etc. Watch his condition and try to keep his weight up. 

All goats need a companion at all times, so you should get another wether or doe. 

The buck will probably mount his companion a lot, decreasing some after he decides it's hopeless, but he'll still mount him occasionally. You'll just have to let this happen, there is nothing you can do about it. I would get a full size or full grown wether, so he can fight for himself, and leave the little wether with the doe. 

I would leave them in sight of each other, at least until you find another companion goat.

ETA: On his behavior change... it might be that he went into rut at the same time you separated them. Just watch and see if she goes into heat, and if she does put them back together for a day or two. Or it might just be that he's alone. Goats can get depressed and sick when alone, or aggressive. My buck got aggressive. 

Also, are your buck and doe related?


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

My Nigerian Dwarf bucks are pretty much constantly in rut.  They're more active in the spring/summer/fall than in the winter, but they're ready to get the job done whenever a girl is available. 

I have my does living on one side of the fence and my bucks on the other. It works pretty well for me; we have woven wire fence. 

It is very hard on a goat to be by himself. I had a single buck for a little while and he was just plain miserable until I found him a new companion. Seeing another goat through the fence is better than nothing, but he does need a friend and he won't be happy until he has one. The little wether will be a good friend once he's a little bigger!


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

All 5 of ours live by themselves. Theres no way they could all live together without hurting another buck or without breaking a fence. That said, they are all bottle babies and have been alone since about 4 months old. They can also see the does (they share the fence line with them) but they cant see the other bucks. In your bucks case, with him living with a companion previously, i would either find another companion for him, or allow him to see the other goats through the fence line until the wether is a little older.


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks all! Suzanne, I was told my goats are not related though they're not registered so I'm not absolutely sure about this. I just discovered there are a couple of registered Nigerian Dwarf does for sale close by, so we might get one of them to put with the buck, but then, of course, she'll end up pregnant too, which is good because we can milk her, but my concern is ending up with too many goats. I'm worried about selling the kids as I'm afraid they'll end up with people who won't care for them properly.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I would not just always keep a doe with a buck. It stresses them out, they will get bred back to back, and their doelings will get bred too early. 

If they are related, please don't breed them. It can really magnify bad traits. 

Also, you can't breed a doe once and always have milk. They must be bred yearly, or every two years if from strong milking lines. So you would have tons of kids. 

There really isn't much choice in not selling milkers' kids. You're going to have to sell goats sooner or later. Ask lots of questions of potential buyers, and help and advise them if they need it. Refuse to sell them goats if you feel uncomfortable with it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Welcome, glad you are here. 

If the weather is good, give him a bath and get most of that smell off of him as you can. Don't have him too close to any doe especially in season. But in sight is OK. 

Put vicks vaper rub around his nostrils. 

The wether is kinda young yet for a mature buck. He may get hurt him in the rear. I had one youngster who was hurt and he hunched. I had to separate him he was hurting for quit a while. It is best to get an older wether IMO.

The doe not being fond of the wether kid, if she isn't being mean it is OK.

Putting up a hotline fence, so it keeps the buck off of it helps.


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL: What does the Vicks around the nostrils do? What kinds of questions do you ask potential buyers when selling your kids? We'll probably get the two registered Nigerian Dwarf does and rotate the breeding yearly. Does that sound about right? And we're thinking of having the buck neutered as he has become aggressive since he went into rut. But is two years old too old for this? Will he go back to his sweet self after the procedure? How old is old enough for the wether to be in with him safely if we choose not to neuter him? If we do turn him into a wether, we could get a registered buck for the breeding who would then have our original gelded buck and maybe the wether for pals. Or should I just forget about having a buck and take the girls on dates? The problem with this is I'm having difficulty finding Nigerian Dwarfs in this area. Thoughts? Thanks all! Your help is appreciated.


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

I don't have answers for all those questions, but I'll go with what I know. 

For potential buyers, I ask them questions like how many goats they have and what kind of shelter they have up for the goats. That usually opens up a conversation and you can get a good read on how prepared and dedicated they are to the goats they're going to purchase. I've sold 20 some goats, mostly through craigslist, and every single person has been very, very nice. Goat people are the best! 

I really like having my own buck(s). Shipping my girls off to get a stud service somewhere sounds like more trouble to me than just owning a buck. There aren't a lot of Nigerian Dwarfs in my area, either (the county fair hadn't even heard of them before) which makes it great for selling kids! The potential for all kinds of disease transfer at stud services also scares me a little. 

I think there are folks who have neutered adult bucks, but I'm pretty sure it has to be done surgically by a vet. He should stop being so hyper or aggressive afterwards, but I don't think he'll stop being smelly. 

Once your little wether is able to stand up for himself against the adult buck I'd be fine with letting them together. That's just going to depend on your wether, though, and if he's a fast grower or a little kid.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Vicks around the nostrils cuts down on aroma's in the air. Such as does and the smell of rut. They smell the vics to get them to settle down a bit. Sometimes it helps with a bath.

Questions to ask potential buyers: what are you looking for in a kid? Is it a show animal or pet, commercial herd ect. Registered or not?

Breeding schedule sounds good. Breeding once a year is a good plan.

About all bucks during rut are more aggressive, some more than others, some come down from rut season and are OK again, until the next time. But it is up to you if you want him wethered. You will have to have a vet do the procedure being older. He may not get rid of all the behavior, being older, but it will help.

The wether has to be big enough to defend himself, age I am no sure with smaller breeds.

Yep, getting a mature buck, if you were to wether him, may be a good setup. 

Taking the girls on dates may be a good idea if you only have a couple of does. But find a good breeder who has a clean herd and their animals are healthy, well cared for. 

Go to the association site and see if they have a breeders list. 
Craigslist look for breeders there too.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Regarding bucks, you may not like the next one any better. They all start out sweet & then most turn into jerks. I don't LIKE my buck, but I do enjoy him. Usually. He's beautiful, he's very interesting, sometimes funny, often disgusting, very macho, but never boring! He has personality plus. Just not a sweet personality. If you want to keep a buck you need to learn about buck behavior & body language, & how to respond appropriately to ensure that he doesn't start butting you. We've had a few threads here where this was discussed recently.

I have my own buck only because nobody nearby has one of the same breed I can use. When we had Alpines it was a different story. For only $50 we could take our very ordinary does to a large local dairy & choose between 3 or 4 grand champion bucks with top producing mothers. There's no way I could have bought a buck like that, & the money we paid to use those guys wouldn't have fed our own buck for more than a few months. The kids also sold for more money because of their sires. I never could figure out why this dairy made these bucks available to any old doe for so little money. They didn't seem to worry about disease either. Maybe it was just their way of giving back to the community?

So anyway, I'd encourage you to contact your breed association & hopefully you can find a reputable farm that offers buck service before you decide to buy another (if you end up wethering this one.) WORDS TO THE WISE: You can usually borrow better genetics than you could afford to buy.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a mature Nigerian buck with a wether sharing a fence line with the does but put up a hot wire in the breeding season. I personally would never keep the buck with the does. I also wash his face off with a little vinegar water during the rut to help with the urine spraying as it can cause some skin issues. Also keep an eye on their underbelly and their front legs as they can get urine burn. Depending on the weather they get that washed also. 
I purchased two very nice young bucklings this year and they are together in a separate pen from the mature buck but also fence line joined. We have a large buck pen with a separation fence dividing it and two small buildings so it works well for me. If you let the buck run with the girls you will not know breeding dates and for me - I want to know when a doe is going to birth. 
My mature buck has a beard - that will be coming off very soon. No beards in the breeding season - my hubby calls it a" septic tank around their neck" and they contaminate their water and it is so important that they drink enough. 
Some bucks are easier to handle than others. Our first buck was pretty aggressive but the one I have now is easy to handle. 
I take my buck to a doe that is ready to bred -in a separate pen - and only leave them long enough to do the job and then remove the buck. Just my personal preference. 
On potential buyers I ask a lot. About their fences - building - and if they don't have goats I don't want to sell them one. I explain why and usually they are very understanding on that. One goat is lonely- two is a herd. If I don't like their answers on fence and buildings I don't sell to them and I tell them why. 
I had a real winner this year - said they were going to run a zip line across their acreage and tie the goats to it because fencing was too hard and they didn't like fences anyway, Said the goats would get hardy if left out. Needless to say I refused to sell them anything. You have to try to educate new owners and if they don't want to learn - no sales from here.


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

*Getting snipped next Wednesday...*

We've decided to neuter our buck and have a vet coming out next week to do the job, and we purchased the two registered does. Our buck is not aggressive toward us while in rut if he has a friend in the pen, but otherwise he gets pretty sassy. He doesn't charge so much as knock around with his horns, and he won't go into the barn unless pulled in. I can handle the pee and smell and funny sounds, I just don't want to deal with an aggressive buck, especially a horned one. Except for the aggression, I enjoy the buck and find him comically charming, and though he smells strong, I don't mind the buck smell as much as pig poo and some other barnyard smells. We have a fence line separating two yards, each yard connected to a barn, but even with him on one side and his friends on the other, our buck is not happy.

We've decided to breed our does to a buck that is registered. Now the problem is finding one. If we can find an available one close by, we'll probably just take the girls on dates, but so far, I haven't found a single one available for breeding, and I haven't found one for sale closer than three hours away. Apparently, we are in a Nigerian Dwarf void area, but I will continue searching. And I will be extremely fussy about who gets our kids. I want them all to have happy lives.

Thank you all for the advice! (And if you have any more for me, I'm happy to get it.)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds like a good plan.

What area are you from? Maybe we have someone here who knows someone.


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

*Location*

Pam, we live outside of Battle Lake in west central Minnesota. My name is Cindy by the way.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Join local goat FB groups. Keep an eye on CL, and google different keywords for breeders in your area. You should find one eventually.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi Cindy. 

Here are some links I found.

Look up MN area and click on the links hopefully there is a breeder near you.
http://www.goatfinder.com/dwarf_goat_directory.htm#MN

Select your location
http://getyourgoats.com/mn.htm

http://www.babelbrookacres.com/

On a google search, "Minnesota nigerian goat breeders" go down the list and click on each link for what you are looking for.
https://www.google.com/#q=Minnesota+nigerian+goat+breeders

Hopefully you find one close to you. Good luck


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

*Links*

Thanks so much, Pam! I appreciate it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You bet, hope you find one.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I have had stinky 2 and 3 year old bucks castrated. It too about 6 to 8 weeks for the hormones to leave their system and after that they were just the same as any wether. They did not stink, lost all interest in peeing on themselves, or harassing the does. They even lost some of their beard and their horn (scur) growth slowed down. After 3 or 4 months you couldn't tell that they had ever been a buck.


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## BattleLakeMN (Aug 13, 2016)

*To Goathiker*

Good!!


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