# Bottle feeding Vs. dam raising



## black-smith (Jan 20, 2011)

What are everyone's thoughts on bottle feeding/dam raising kids??

I've always sold my Kids right away, so never had to make the decision of bottle raising or dam raising..
I plan to keep most of my kids this year, and I'm not sure what to do?!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Dam raising... is by far the best thing... but ..sometimes bottle feeding is the only option in certain situations...bottle feeding is work....

If you have the option of keeping the babies and are not worried about drinking and using the milk for yourself...then... I'd Dam feed for sure...they do better with mom.... less issues.. as apposed to bottle feeding... :wink:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Mother Nature does a great job without us interfering. :wink: 
I always think mommy raised is best! Unless of course mom needs some help.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

This is what I have observed.....last year a friend of mine had three does. Two had triplets and the one I took had a single. Due to the way things worked out, she wound up bottle feeding 3 of the kids. My doe raised her buckling. I have one of the bottle fed doelings. My buckling was never handled and his dam was not milked. Of course the doeling was handled alot! When they were really young, the bottle fed crew was a pain. Every time you walked into the pen they were all over you expecting to be fed, even when i wasn't feeding time. The doe raised kids did not do this. 

My doe was not bottle fed so she is stand offish, altho she is getting better. Her buckling would have nothing to do with me. My doeling, who is now a year old is very friendly and can get pushy at times. 

What I want todo is let my doe raise her kids, but pet them as much as possible so that they are friendly. I think mom should raise her kids not me!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I agree, mommy's milk is the best! I've heard of bottle raising for:

Friendlier goats - I disagree. Bottle raising is not what makes the kid friendly; frequent nice handling is. We play with our dam-raised kids a lot, and they are extremely friendly lap goats, even to strangers, but not obnoxious. They even suck our fingers a little, though not nearly as much as a bottle-raised kid.

CAE prevention - which I think is unnecessary in CAE neg. goats, but I suppose since the testing isn't 100% reliable some people might want to do it; I don't.

More milk for you - Okay, maybe this is a legitimate argument.

I for one think dam raising (wherever possible, of course) is worth the sacrificed milk and the (almost nil) risk of CAE transmission for happy mamas and healthy kiddos! It is SO SWEET to see mama and baby together. Not to mention that bottle feeding is a lot of work, and formula is notorious for causing problems...
To sum it up, God made goats to feed their kids. Why would we want to change that unless we had a really good reason?
OK, you have my :2cents: !


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## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

Dam raising is so much healthier for the kids. They get all the good bacteria, enzymes and vitamins in mom's milk which helps their immune systems. I guess if you gave them their mom's milk in a bottle they would still get that, but heat treating it will kill most of the good stuff. Of course milk replacer can't compare. I sit right in the pen with each set of kids and mom for a good half hour twice a day for the first week, and then once a day for quite a while until the kids run to me when they see me. They love to sit on my lap and be cuddled. Some grow up friendlier than others but most of them LOVE human contact. I also love dam raising because if we need to be away I don't have to worry about getting someone to milk the does or bottle feed the babies! I just seperate the babes and moms for the night starting at about two weeks and milk in the mornings.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

I have dam raised almost every kid and they were still friendly as puppies, because I put the time into playing with them. My bottle kids on the other hand were obnoxious pests I couldn't stand.


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## KatieT (Mar 20, 2011)

I much prefer dam-raising. My 4-week-old doeling is dam-raised, incredibly healthy, and growing like a weed . She is also just like a puppy dog - she follows me everywhere and will sleep in my lap. While I believe she's friendly by nature, we have also played with and handled her daily since birth. 

Dam-raising is less work for me, and I love seeing mama and baby together - I can't imagine taking Margo's babies away at birth, because she LOVES them and loves being a mother. I only buy does that have tested negative for CAE, so I do not feel that I need to separate for CAE prevention.

I am getting less milk because I let Margo's kid nurse 24/7, but I don't see that as a loss of production. I get all the milk I need, and meanwhile she is raising up a healthy little girl for me.


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

I do both, depending on the dam. I have a lot of dams that refuse to take care of thier kids, so I raise them, i also pull them in the cold winter months. Late spring kids and summer kids usually stay with their moms. All of my animals test CAE negative, so when I do bottle raise they get raw milk, and I never see a major size difference between dam vs bottle, however I use the caprine bucket system for bottle raising, so they get as much milk as they can drink, not a limited amount. I think it's all your own management decision, but both have always worked great for me.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm with dam-raising and our kids are all friendly healthy and happy


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I am 100% for dam raising. Here is a great article a small farm wrote about bottle feeding vs. dam raising and I really agree for the most part about what they wrote on here...
http://ctcfarm.com/goatbottlefeed.html


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so happy most people here think that mom is best. I sure do. When I have the time, and if the kids cooperate, I give them a bottle of Mom's milk in the morning after they have been separated. I find this useful if there is a need for a bottle and to give meds. I also feel it helps with the friendliness though we spend a lot of time with our goats so they are all pretty friendly.
And, as mentioned above; if we want to go away for a weekend we can do it without finding someone to milk. Just leave them together.


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## KatieT (Mar 20, 2011)

Kylee, I really enjoyed the link you posted. I'm new to goats, but it speaks to my experience and I agree with their opinions. I also found this part interesting:



> Much of our experience with the bottle fed goats has often been heart breaking. We find that they tend not to be as hearty, sometimes they take the bottle, but will die or not thrive due to not getting enough immunity from their dam - even if they got the early colostrum. They continue to benefit by immunity passed from their dam during the term of their lactation. This information has been passed to us on multiple occasions from veterinarians who have experience with and sound knowledge of goats.


A friend of mine is raising seven bottle-fed lambs this spring. The farm they came from had an unusual number of triplets this year and the moms couldn't feed them. Her lambs are about 2 months old now and are given excellent care (her husband is also a veterinarian). In the last week she has lost two to pneumonia, and a third is struggling with it. She did everything she could for them and she believes that they were more susceptible because they did not get enough immunity from their dams.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

We let the dams feed the kids unless one is rejected or something crazy like that. Last year we had one rejected kid that we had to bottle feed. She is friendly but almost crazy. We also have a lower success rate for bottle fed kids because they might be over or under fed. The best thing to do is let mother nature take over.


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

I bought two pregnant does that are usually excellent mothers, and one did raise her babies nicely. The other is not happy with my barn (possibly too many ultra-friendly free-range poultry hanging out 24/7) and this distracted her a bit with bonding to her babies. One of the babies apparently got out of the pen and wandered down the barn and got into a buck pen! When I finally found him and brought him home, she called out to him and was oh, so sweet, until she got a good whiff of him, and then, BAM! She butted him away! She has been hot and cold with him, and not attentive enough to the other kid. We had some really cold nights, too, and they got chilled, so I took them into my kitchen to restore body heat and put some milk into them. They got colostrum and I am bottle-feeding them raw milk (all goats here are CAE negative and will be tested periodically to make sure). OK, so now I have a pair of bottle babies in the kitchen! One week later .. . 

I have an old dog who LOVES babies, and I encouraged her to clean them up. When they don't want any more milk, I sprinkle excess milk all over their bodies. First I tried that to get their mom to accept them, but it didn't work. Then I took them back and let the dog lick them all over. The babies just wriggled with pleasure!

Someone told me that orphans and bottle babies suffer psychologically by not having that constant motherly attention. I can't give them that, but, when I do feed them, I stretch it out and let the dog give them a good cleaning -- repeating as necessary to make sure they are pooping and peeing and look satisfied. I think it helps a lot. I also handle them a lot. 

To keep them from being TOO obnoxious, after the first thaw-out, I only feed them while they are standing on their own feet. These kids are small compared to standard goat kids or lambs, so are spending more time in a box in the kitchen, but will put them out in the barn in a pen with a nipple-bucket-feeder (I got one made by Premier - it works just fine). For now, since they are so tiny (Nigerian Dwarf) they can drink out of a pop bottle with a pritchard teat on it. 

I'll see how they do. They seem to be growing. They had half-siblings born to another doe at about the same time, so will compare notes with that litter's owner to see how they are doing. The other litter is on mom. 

Now I got to go milk mom again -- the kdis are telling me that it is mdnight snack time again! 

Chris


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

After having bottle-fed my first 2 goats (buck & doe), I am determined that all our kids will be raised by their dam's (unless circumstances dictate otherwise, of course). I feel that they develop better eating habits (no need to slurp down so much milk in one meal), which leads to better eating habits & better digestion later on. Of course, no milk is as healthy as what nature provides for them. I have a doe (bottle-fed from 1 week old) that was raised in the house with 2 dogs. This made it so that she has absolutely NO fear of our dogs. She not only tries to "beat them up", but she places herself between the dogs and myself, because she doesn't want the dogs near me either. 

My friendliest & most well-behaved goats were dam-raised, with a lot of human contact as kids. They also seem healthier somehow.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Glad you enjoyed the link KatieT.  When I was reading it I felt like this was my opinion almost exactly.


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## black-smith (Jan 20, 2011)

Excellent this is what I've been leaning towards...

The only worry I have, is what will it do to moms udder?
most nursed udders I've seen have been un even or extremely lopsided..

would milking her out every night prevent this?

Thanks guys


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

There is a trick to keeping an udder milked out evenly and balanced. Someone, somewhere (maybe in the archives of The Goat Spot) wrote that if the kids draw too much milk form one side you can put teat-tape (3M paper first-aid or wound-tape) on the teat they prefer, so that they have to go to the OTHER teat to get a meal. By monitoring and changing the tape as needed, you can balance out the udder over a lactation.

I did have a conversation with someone who says that she always bottle-feeds her kids because then they are totally HERS and bonded to her, and when she goes to a show she can just open the trailer and they all follow her to their new pen. If they are not bottle-raised, even when they seem tame, they can become so excited about the new sights and sounds at a show or fair, that they might run out of the trailer and never be seen again. It happens. That doesn't happen with her bottle-fed kids. Just thought I would share that viewpoint, too.

Chris


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I only have a couple girls with somewhat lopsided udders. What I do to prevent this is after the kids are born, make sure both teats are releasing milk and switch the kid from one teat to the other for the first day or two if you notice the kid(s) favoring one side so they get used to both sides. I've only had problems a couple times in the past when there has only been one kid ...otherwise, I haven't had many problems with lopsided udders.


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## Paige (Oct 14, 2010)

I am totally for bottle raising. I now my goats are just as healthy as every dam raised kid I have ever seen. Plus, I don't have to worry about mom dying and leaving kids behind, her rejecting them, laying on them, or not letting them nurse, because I plan on taking the kids away anyway. I have had too many issues with dam raised kids, even the ones that have been handled since birth. I once had a couple that I had to lasso for every milking. And they were always handled. Also, I don't want to worry too much about CAE. I know that most people don't have it, but it can be transferred by body fluids not just through the milk. Plus you have very friendly babies and they can be sold sooner to people that want to be able to get them when they are little and still on milk. I think that it is just as easy to teach them to stay down as it is to teach them to get used to people. 

But everyone please remember that this is just my opinion, and different thing work for different people. And it depends on what you are raising your goats for. 
Thanks for letting me share and good luck with what ever you choose. :O)


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## black-smith (Jan 20, 2011)

I mostly raise my girls for the show...
And I want mom to look good for the fair as well as the babies...

Kidding any day now!! )


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## black-smith (Jan 20, 2011)

Well I had triplets! Two does and a buck...
Unfortunately I was at work when she kidded, but everything went well.
Her udder came in beautifully, with pleanty of milk for 3!

Thanks for all the help, I've decided to dam raise them... it's definitely the easiest due to my work schedule!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

congrats on the babies!!! I dam raise all kids here too...the bottle babies I've had experience with have been pests!


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

I have to share -- I am into my third week or so of feeding a bottle baby in the house. I tried to return her to the barn and feed her out there, but she is an escape artist and still too small to stay inside the fences I have inside my barn (she climbs through the hog-panel sections). 

I dislike having to clean up babies, and I know they need a lot of cuddling and reassurance. My old border collie female liked licking the colostrum off baby faces, so I trained her to do it on request "clean 'em up! Clean up the goat!" and sprinkled milk along the head, spine and butt. In particular, small babies need their butts licked to encourage elimination. My dog naturally cleans up puddles from lambs or kids that are brought in the house. 

I returned "Blondie" to the barn when I got tired of cleaning out soggy bedding and damp cardboard boxes, only to find that baby goats that are not bonded to an adult goat will wander. I bring her in the house, I put her in the barn, I bring her in the house. She was sort of bonding to an older kid she shared a pen with in the barn, but then my neighbor's building caught fire and was really close to my barn. I got an early warning from a friend who heard the first call for help, called me to tell me to look outside for billowing smoke, and if I saw it, to move all my animals out of the bann because with the high winds it could catch on my barn fast. So I moved everybody out and put the kids into a crate near the house. There were a lot of people fighting the fire, watching, running around, and there was smoke, and I felt that it would make sense to have a tiny baby in the house, so she came back -- no box, crate, nothing -- just little goat feet running through my house! 

Blondie is not too spoiled -- possibly because I am retired and feed her extra "snacks" randomly. She can call me and she might get a snack, and she might not. Or I might wake her up and ask if she wants one. And it may take me a while to get outside and bring back some of her mom's fresh milk for her. SO, no scouring, no bloating, no foundering. She gets enough twice a day to keep her growing, and snacks for socialzing. AND my border collie follows her around and cleans up the messes - which are small. 

Lately, I swear, Blondie has become potty-trained! There was a plastic bag on the ground, she peed on it, the dog cleaned it up, I praised them both and left the plastic bag there. They repeat this. It beats having damp spots or "mouse droppings" randominly in the house. I LOVE my border collie, and I like having Blondie in the house. I taught her to jump up on my lap, I taught her not to jump up on my keyboard if it is in my lap. I taught her not to tease the bulldog in his crate, but to be calm and non-committal towards him and vice versa. She is desensitizing him to chasing or even watching goats -- I have let him out with her under supervision and he avoids touching her because I have told them both to behave. This is a major exercise in training animals -- I am enjoying it! 

In particular, not having to clean up soggy boxes is a treat. I suppose a goat could be litter-box trained, too? I am not going to go there -- because then I would have to clean a litter box! But the border-collie cleanup method is working for us now. 

I will still take her out to socialize with other kids. She is not eating solids yet, or not much, because she does not have good role models in the house. When she is out with the other goats, she does mouth their food and I think she eats it. Not sure. Will be a learning curve. 

I have a dam-raised wild thing that I am starting to tame at 4 months of age. She was born wild, and I did not spend enough "alone time" with her. Now I take her away from the other goats and put her up on the milk stand and hold her by the collar and she now thinks of me and the collar as the key to getting a taste of pelleted dairy feed. If she hollers her mom looks over the pen to talk with her, and she figures she is fine. Mom doesn't get excited by getting on the milk stand, and mom is not concerned that I am holding baby and feeding her pelleted food, so in time I figure the wild thing will become the manageable kid and grow up to be a tame-enough dairy goat. I'd like to see if she does well in a show -- she would have the nicest legs and be born to be wild! 

My bottle baby lets me carry her, handle her anywhere and tell her what to do, and responds to her name and comes when I call. My wild-thing knows her name but is only now learning not to flee when I enter the pen. These are probably two extremes of behavior. Either way, they are growing well on their mothers' milk. The moms are tested CAE,Johnnes, Brucellosis and TB free, so I don't worry about feeding their milk to their own kids.


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