# Emergency goat down



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I hope its okay that I am using this thread. I need ideas/input from other people. 

My FB boer doe Vanity, who prolapsed at 7 weeks before kidding, is not well. She had been fine until now, two days ago the string in her vulva broke so she prolapsed again, she was stitched up again no worries. But for the last two days, she is not well at all, and she is going down hill. 

Today, she doesnt want to eat and drink, she is sitting most of the time moaning and heaving. She is prolapsing past the stitch a little, but it disappears when she gets up. She doesnt get up until I make her, and she has a lot of trouble standing, she can barely walk. She falls over when she tries to walk. She does not have an elevated temp. 

I wondered if she had some preg tox or similar, so she has had glucose, calcium, magnesium and ... bugger I forgot what else is in it, under the skin, also some oral glucose and electrolytes. She will be going to the vet first thing tomorrow to be reassessed. 

But, HERE'S MY QUESTION: how early can you have viable kids? Because she is four weeks away from kidding, I wondered if maybe I could get her another two weeks they would be ok, but I honestly dont know if she is going to last that long. At this stage, and its cruel to say but the kids are more valuable than her. 

Thanks guys. Man I hope I dont lose her before she kids, she cost me $2000 I dont have any doe kids alive from her, and I have sunk about $300 in vet bills in her already. Plus tomorrow I;m going back.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

kids are viable on day 140 before then the chances are very slim

But I had a premie this year and she did great after a little help at first(dont know the day she was born as her siblings were fullgrown and I had the buck around for 3 weeks :shrug: )

I do hope she makes it till tomorrow. ray: I am saying some prayers right now for her, you and the vet.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*



> She falls over when she tries to walk


 her kid inside may be pinching her nerve in her back...spinal area.....kids can push on all kids of things in there...... :shrug: 
I am glad you are taking her to the vet.....I would of done the same in that situation ......I pray she will be OK... ray:



> kids are viable on day 140 before then the chances are very slim


 I agree with stacey...they will be safe at least 5 days within the due date of 145 days


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

ok, day 140 is 23rd Nov.

To update, she is looking sooooooo much better after the stuff I gave her. I will give her some more in the morning. She can stand up by herself and walk without falling over now, she is picking at some lucerne and had a small drink.

So all in all, crisis averted (for now). Will take her in tomorrow to have her assessed in any case.

Its gonna be a looooong two weeks


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## Sybil (Dec 21, 2007)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

She may have some very large kids in her draining her??? Also if the kids are large...........doesn't leave much room for food. Will keep her in our prayers for a positive outcome!
Sue


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

A prolapse is usually indication of "more" kids than the doe can handle....I had that happen to a pygmy this past February...and she did nothing but lay around and had an awful time with a rear leg not wanting to move right. My doe prolapsed 2 weeks before she delivered, vet was out and put a stitch in, she was given a calcium drench as well, kidded with triplets and all was well. I do hope your doe can hold them kids in til the 23rd...I hope your vet has a good solution for you.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

So she is looking a lot better this morning, still not eating much but almost back to herself. I do think that it might not have been related to the prolapse, more of a metabolic thing preg tox or milk fever something to that effect.

Liz we scanned at least three kids in her - in her life she has had two sets of twins and four sets of triplets. So I'm expecting 3, although this season has been ridiculous for multiples so I wouldnt be suprised even if there were 4.

toth, I'm pretty sure it wasnt just the kids pressing on her. I've seen it before, and this was definitely something worse.

Its funny, I've seen preg tox, ketosis, milk fever, grass tetany all before pretty much all the metabolic problems, but I just couldnt put my finger on what exactly this was. She just went down so so rapidly, unlike anything I've seen.

I am happy with her recovery so I wont take her in to the vet today, but I will call her to have a chat.

Thanks for all the input guys, that was a scary day!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

oh just wonderful news


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

keren......I'm so glad ....she is showing improvement..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

So she's down again this morning :sigh: Not groaning and she can stand and walk but she's not getting up unless I make her.

Will give her some more 4 in 1 and all the other stuff and see. She's prolapsing a little when she sits down but it goes back in when she stands up, so I guess as long as I can keep it at that stage it will be ok.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

I am so sorry to hear that...  did you ever take her in..to have her assessed by a vet since she has not been acting and feeling right?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

toth, I didnt since she picked up so well, but I think I will have to now she has gone down hill again. Counting down till Nov 23 ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

I really think that would be best....I pray she makes it to her due date ... has healthy kids and can care for them...... ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

So I spoke with Stacey (my vet) this afternoon, she actually rang me before I got to ringing here lol.

At the moment, we have agreed on a game plan (along with input from other vets and knowledgeable goat people in the area). She is able to stand and walk, but doesnt tend to do it on her own, only when I motivate her.

At the moment, I am going out and offering her water and fresh food every few hours, she has food hay and water in front of her (she's laying in the shed) all the time. After which, I make her get up and do a lap of the pen. She wont eat or drink when I get her up, so thats why I offer it while she's down. She also seems to forget to pee so she makes a flood every time I get her up. I am also giving the 4 in 1, plus oral glucose and glycerine twice a day.

In an interesting development today, when she stands up she is hunched like she has a belly ache, but also, when the water hits her belly the kids start kicking like nuts (I can put my hand there and feel them, very cool I have never done that before, at least I know there is something alive there), but when they start kicking around she jumps up like its hurting, and hunches badly. Any ideas as to why this is??? Should I be concerned??

We are wondering if she has four in there. Given that she has carried triplets before with no problems, but she has never had quads and maybe that is the reason for all these problems?

So the game plan is to keep babying her along, feed, water, walking couple times a day, glucose and keep an eye on the prolapse. Then we will reassess when she gets to Nov.23. If she is very sick we will induce on the 24th (as the 23rd is a Sunday) but if she is much the same we will induce on 28th (which will be day 145).

I do think as long as the prolapse situation stays ok, that I will be able to get her through the next 12 days.

:worried: Although I couldnt figure it out, my computer tells me that <-- is a worried smiley.

If she has four bucks I am going to scream and quite possibly break something lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> She also seems to forget to pee so she makes a flood every time I get her up.


 this is because she cannot pee through the prolapse....when she gets up and the prolaspe goes back in she can then pee..... 



> when they start kicking around she jumps up like its hurting, and hunches badly. Any ideas as to why this is??? Should I be concerned??


with prolapsing she doesn't have much room for the kids as it is ...when they start moving it is probably very uncomfortable for her....it is normal in her situation....



> We are wondering if she has four in there


Or there could be 3 huge kids in there...did you feed here high quality feed and alot of grain all through her pregnancy? If so the kids may very well be larger than normal... :shrug:



> So the game plan is to keep babying her along, feed, water, walking couple times a day, glucose and keep an eye on the prolapse. Then we will reassess when she gets to Nov.23. If she is very sick we will induce on the 24th (as the 23rd is a Sunday) but if she is much the same we will induce on 28th (which will be day 145).


sounds like a great plan to me.... 

I am praying that all goes well....and she can hold on and be there for her little ones. ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

Thanks, you have eased my mind a bit, particularly about the hunching when the kids start kicking away. I have never seen any of my trip and quad bearers do that before.

The feed regimen hasnt been any different to normal ... although it does seem like it is the season for multiples, multiples, multiples around here. One friend only joined 6 does but she had triplets from the lot of them, and normally their goats only have twins. Another friend had two sets of 5 and one set of quads. Another friend had 40 does kid and I think she had five sets of quads and the rest triplets. And at work we are currently kidding, and we have about twice the number of trips than we normally do.

So, I wouldnt be suprised if there are quads in there - yikes. On the other hand, it may just be trips and it could just be the stress of being transported round (she went to a few shows before the first prolapse, then all the trips into the vet).

When I went out to check her this morning she was standing already. So that is encouraging. She looks proppy already lol but I know its just cos she's crook.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

wow..... that is alot of multiples... :shocked: ......I guess it is an epidemic this year....Those Poor does....and your doe...... I don't know how in the world they do it.... :sigh:

It sounds like you are doing a terrific job .....in what you are doing for her every day...  I think it is helping especially ...if she is getting up and is perkier :thumbup: :wahoo:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

I went out and took some photos ... will post here as soon as I resize.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

that would be wonderful..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

Here are the pics.

You can see how she's hunched over when she stands.










She's not overly wide but then again she never is.

Does she look like the kids have dropped to you?










She is spending a lot of time today with bum in air and down on knees.

She is also very sensitive to touch - when I just lightly touch her anywhere she flinches.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

Vanity is a very pretty boer ...  ...I really like her.. 

I do see the hunching that is for sure..,.she does look like she doesn't feel well..poor baby.. 



> Does she look like the kids have dropped to you?


 no.... I see they are still up ...on her sides ...it's OK.....

how is her appetite doing?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

Much the same.

Pretty is probably not the right word for her lol although she is a fantastic doe.

She is somewhat 'boofy' and masculine in the head, and has a pronounced dewlap. Both of which do not stand her in good stead in the show ring. However, she is long, deep and she is just so easy fleshing, so she really is a good commercial producing doe. We have to remember that these are meat animals, and Vanity well she can get fat off the smell of feed. Personally the head and dewlap dont bother me, as I have always found that animals with extra skin, including dewlaps, are the easy keepers. The one major thing I would like to change about her is her udder - it is functional though quite disgusting. I believe we should strive for udders like I see on the ND's here - there is no reason a meat or fibre animal should have a poor udder.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

Yeah, ok looking again now I can see the kids are still up. I think the hollow in her side from not eating much was tricking me.

Aargh, I think you can look forward to more panicking posts from me over the next 12 days lol


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*



> believe we should strive for udders like I see on the ND's here - there is no reason a meat or fibre animal should have a poor udder.


totally agree. , i have a doe with a similar head, not really 'pretty' but she's a great FB boer doe, good porducer and a strong mother.

hope she gets to feeling better soon!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

keren..I have to disagree with you ......she is still pretty to me...she need's encouragement......you know...  LOL



> Yeah, ok looking again now I can see the kids are still up. I think the hollow in her side from not eating much was tricking me.
> 
> Aargh, I think you can look forward to more panicking posts from me over the next 12 days lol


I just hope and pray ...she is getting enough nutrients to her babies..and getting her selenium/ect... from the loose salt and minerals :worried:

we will panic with you.......I already am ..... :worried: .....and I am certainly praying and rooting her on....... :thumbup: ray: we are all counting down with you..... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

anyone want to explain exactly what a prolapse is?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

I will try to take a photo next time I go out, but the last few times she has been sitting and it has actually been in! So I'm not gunna complain 

She prolapsed the vagina, so basically it was a basketball sized pink protrusion from the vulva ... now it is only about the size of a tennis ball. No one seems 100% sure what causes it, but a few of the things 'they' say is:

- when the doe is carrying too many kids, more than she can handle, with not enough room
- often seen in very fat or very thin does who lose muscle tone
- seems to be something to do with the way the kids are positioned
- short bodied does tend to prolapse more because they have less room
- some evidence to suggest that low calcium levels may be a factor

Toth, I am already accustomed to the fact that these babies are going to be weak ... hopefully they will be viable though. Last kidding I had a doe with severe ketosis, she was a downer for four days before she kidded. As soon as she started kidding I pulled all the kids ... dont usually but I wanted to get it over and done with to make her feel better. I was expecting all doa, but I got three buck kids, one was too weak and although had a heartbeat, didnt start breathing. He was so so skinny but normal size. Basically emaciated though. The other two were good solid kids and strong as anything. So I am hoping :shrug:

I use lick blocks rather than loose licks, she is not interested in them so I will be giving her Nutrimol (oral drench for vitamins minerals etc) daily. I give injectable selenium once a yr.

I will go out and tell her you think she's pretty ... you are probably the first person to tell her that :thumbup:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: EMERGENCY*

I hope all the babies are healthy ...:worried: 


> I will go out and tell her you think she's pretty ... you are probably the first person to tell her that :thumbup:


 you go girl....  be sure to give her hugs for me ,but tell her don't actually do it until she is done kidding when it's time...LOL


> Nutrimol (oral drench for vitamins minerals etc) daily


 the drench and selenium shots are good....we will hope and pray..for the best...... ray: :thumbup:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

made this a whole new thread for you now that it isnt a totaly emergency


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Keren, I also think she is a very pretty doe. I mean really, how pretty would we be carring those babies and having a prolapse at the same time?? :slapfloor: 

I think you are doing great with her. Keep up the good work. It is so important to keep her well hydrated at this last stage and make she hse is getting enough Calcium, you know those babies are taking a awful lot from her.
That hunching is also just trying to get those babies in a position that is comfortable for her. I know when I was pregnant, and the kids had a foot like in the ribs I would try to move them around to get move them, but I have hands to do that with. It would be a little harder for her. 

Hand in thee and it will be over before you know it. Keep us posted.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Keren, I also think she is a very pretty doe. I mean really, how pretty would we be carring those babies and having a prolapse at the same time?? :slapfloor:


so true..... 

count down.....day 11...


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

I think she has a pretty face, and in the first pic it looks like she is smiling. If this poor girl can smile after everything she is going through, as she has to be just down right miserable at this point... that is one fabulous doe IMO! :shades: She deserves a big hug. :hug: 

I sure do hope she holds onto those babies until her due date, and that she recovers well afterwards. I still think we are looking at triplets or more seeing all the problems she is having with this pregnancy. I will be watching to see the results. I wish you best of luck with your doe and her babies.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Hey everyone, thanks stacey for moving this along, when I used the emergency thread the other day was when she could barely stand, couldnt walk, just kept falling over and lying there moaning. I really didnt think she would make it to the next day to see the vet. 

Now it is just a waiting game ... thank goodness I have you all to wait with me!

I will go out and tell her that she gets lots of hugs from the good folks at TGS but ONLY if she hangs on till Nov 23rd or longer and we get :baby: :baby: :baby: (maybe three girls? she had trippy girls last time round, so I hope hope hope its not trippy bucks. Because I really cant join her again after this so I want a girl to replace her. I dont mind a mixed set though). 

I have an exam out at uni this morning so I have just gone out and fed quickly, I will be back to give her the cocktail of glucose and other stuff around lunch time.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree Karen ...it was ....a real urgent emergency at first....  .that's good stacey gave you your own thread ...that means ...Vanity is out of the emergency room...LOL  it's better than being in the emergency room  .thank god ....she is doing better now..or at least hanging in there...
yes .......we are here for you both...keren



> will go out and tell her that she gets lots of hugs from the good folks at TGS but ONLY if she hangs on till Nov 23rd or longer


 that's exactly what I told ya earlier....she has to earn them now... :hug: 

I think she is going to have :girl: :girl: :boy:

good luck on your exam keren ...hope it goes well for you...  :thumbup:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Exam went as well as it was ever going to go. I struggle with the subject, so hopefully it earns me a pass ...

Just went out a little while ago to give her her daily cocktail, instead of just standing in the shed and letting me give it to her (its a nasty NEEDLE to give it subcutaneously) she actually walked away and I had to catch her. So thats good.

Spoke to Stacey to let her know that the prolapse is staying in even when she is sitting down. She thinks the 4 in 1 is responsible, that I have probably got her calcium levels back to normal now.

So, instead of giving the 4 in 1 and oral glucose twice daily, I am now going to alternate between 4 in 1, saline and glucose subcut, plus glucose orally. We were a little concerned about overdosing on the 4 in 1 since she has been having 70 ml twice a day since sunday ... that is a lot.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like good news.

Always like to hear good news


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow that is alot of ml ...but whatever helps... :wink: 
that is a excellent sign... she is running from you.... and now she has to be caught......sounding real good...  :dance: :wahoo:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Just thought I would update as it has been a week since we were at emergency status. 

She is much the same, still hanging on, not great but not awful either. I had cut down on the 4 in 1, today I noticed the prolapse took longer to go back in when she stood up, so I will give her some more 4 in 1. Still only picking at food, have given her some B12 to try and pick up the appetite. 

1 week to go ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

7 days to go...... 
If you want to make sure she gets more hay down her...I have a trick with Alfalfa hay leaves...I never thought of it before ..but maybe alfalfa pellets may work better? ..:idea:
A long time ago I had a mature doe that wouldn't eat no matter what I did for her.....It got to the point where I had to get something in her or she would die........well I thought of this idea .......take alfalfa leaves or some kind of hay with seeds not straw like stuff.....but as I said before maybe alfalfa pellets will work...something with nutritional value .......anywayz....take the alfalfa leaves (the good stuff )off of the stems and put in a blender......... blend as much as your going to feed in one setting.....grind it as fine as you can.......get one of those huge syringes... I'm not sure how big .....I am guessing it was a 60 cc...something that will not clog easy.........now add water to the grinded hay or pellets ...blend ............add..enough to make it kinda watery......then plunge it up into syringe.....see if it plunges in easy and comes out easy through the syringe....... if not...you may want to either add more water .... or blend some more..... until it is easy to go through the syringe.....  
take a bowel ...and all the blended stuff out with you.. ...pour some in the bowel......
with the syringe ...plunge up some of the mixer....and start giving it to your doe from the back corner of her mouth .....inside a bit ....so she is not spitting it out....do it slowly make sure she swallows...repeat until she is done with the mixture....
I have done this with alfalfa...but you know..... :idea: the pellets may work better.... if you use that ...make it like split pea soup content or close to it... ...  
.......This worked for my doe that was down.... and I did it for a few days and she got her appetite back on her own,,,,I kept hay out for her at all times ,,,so when she was ready she had it available...... I wouldn't advise using grain though


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks toth, I will keep that in mind but she is eating more today. She had a warm bran mash and a lucerne tea yesterday and this morning I went out she has eaten all the pellets and hay I put out for her last night!

The countdown continues ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

your welcome...keren..  .It sounds like she had a good night .....hope she continues doing well.....the way you described in your last comment.... I was worried that she wasn't eating much of anything.....I am so glad she improved with her appetite...I will pray ray: she will continued to do well....and it is looking good ...for her to make it ...7 more days and beyond.....  I hope you will not have to use my recipe ...but it is there ... if need be......I am here for the both of you.. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

6 days to go..... ray: I pray she is still doing well... ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yep, ate her hay last night, not all her pellets though. But I figure if she eats hay that will keep her rumen going and with the subq glucose that should keep her energy levels up. Walking around all the time now. Boy her udder is really filling!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

That is so good to hear keren....even if those babies have mom make it to 140 days they'll be viable...I hope she holds out longer...good job :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

keren....that is great...  ..sounds like she is going to be alright....  :thumbup:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

It does sound like she's going to be okay ... doesnt it?

I cant help it every now and then I start grinning like an idiot :greengrin: just for no reason at all ... people keep looking at me like I'm crazy ... well I suppose that might just be because I'm crazy lol

Sunday is day 140 ... so I will have to start keeping an eye on her in case she starts kidding by herself, so I can cut the stitch. Her udder is filling so fast I'm wondering if she's planning on delivering them early anyway.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> It does sound like she's going to be okay ... doesnt it?
> 
> I cant help it every now and then I start grinning like an idiot :greengrin: just for no reason at all ... people keep looking at me like I'm crazy ... well I suppose that might just be because I'm crazy lol
> 
> Sunday is day 140 ... so I will have to start keeping an eye on her in case she starts kidding by herself, so I can cut the stitch. Her udder is filling so fast I'm wondering if she's planning on delivering them early anyway.


 Yes very much so....  I don't blame you........ I even grin wide everytime you report another good day.....I think those other people are the crazy ones...just because someone grins for no reason ...Hey .........you cracked yourself a funny right? LOL  :ROFL: ... It is getting closer for her to kid .....I hope she holds on....... to at least sunday...for you.... ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

5 days to go...... :shades: :hug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

toth boer goats said:


> 5 days to go...... :shades: :hug:


 :wahoo: Yup!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

day 5 .......and still doin good I see ....excellent.... :thumbup: :wahoo:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

DAY 4...... :sun:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Okay so I figured out how to get her eating more ... you are gonna laugh ... 

So I have been leaving a bucket of pellets out for her to eat at her leisure, as much as she wants. Well, yesterday it rained. This morning she had her head in the bucket, SLUURPing up the wet melted pellet mush! Apparently its yummy ... 

:ROFL:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

and less chewing.. like a smoothie!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Okay so I figured out how to get her eating more ... you are gonna laugh ...
> 
> So I have been leaving a bucket of pellets out for her to eat at her leisure, as much as she wants. Well, yesterday it rained. This morning she had her head in the bucket, SLUURPing up the wet melted pellet mush! Apparently its yummy ...


 remember my idea on how to get food down her in one of my previous post......I think she got on here and read that post....and decided that she didn't want it in the syringe....LOL :ROFL:
That is funny how she is eating a smoothie!SDK.. :ROFL:

keren.....Now you know . how she likes it........ thank god it rained.....that's a miracle in disguise.... she was fed....... by the hand of god........ I do believe... that is a sign..... she is going to be alright and you are going to get a doeling for her replacement .....ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Day 3 :coffee2:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Still going strong ... ate all her hay and pellets I put out over night :greengrin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Love hearing that .....sounds so promising....  :thumbup: :dance: :hi5: ray:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like she's planning on holding those kids in longer than you think she will.....a good thing for growing babies, now as long as mom continues to improve you're in good shape!


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Sounds like momma and babies are doing well which is just what we want to hear. :greengrin:


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

Great news! Eating is always a very good sign. Lets hope she continues to do well and deliveries these babies with no problems. :dance:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Sounds like she's planning on holding those kids in longer than you think she will.....a good thing for growing babies, now as long as mom continues to improve you're in good shape!


I agree....sounds like she may carry them full term .....instead of just to 140 days....  :thumbup:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yep, I really dont think we will need to induce now ... just need to watch her closely now so I know when to cut the purse-string!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

keren, when my pygmy doe prolapsed, I had to do the same....I actually was able to cut the stitch a few days befor her due date, actually I ended up with 2 dates for her (I do 145) first one was for 2/24..the other for 2/29....I cut the stitch on the 17th but left the thread in place as she was being jumpy....I got her on the milkstand the 20th to remove the thread, was not fun! She was down and back to the stall, I went to fill a water bucket and was back in 20 minutes...in that time she had 1 kid born in the common area and was only on 141!!! Your doe may be surprising as well! Tilly had triplet doelings..the first born was the tiniest one...half the size of her sisters at 1pound and 9 ounces...she and her 1 sister are homed together as pets, I retained the last doeling because Tilly is no longer in "service".


She'll do fine...as long as you can snip that suture in time.....I truly think that Tilly's first kid FELL OUT after I took the stitch out! :ROFL: It happened so fast and she showed me NO signs of labor.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> She'll do fine...as long as you can snip that suture in time.....I truly think that Tilly's first kid FELL OUT after I took the stitch out! :ROFL: It happened so fast and she showed me NO signs of labor.


wow Liz...that doe didn't waste no time at all... :shocked: It does seem as if the kid just fell out... :shades: :ROFL:

Hope you get to the snipping on time keren....but don't do it to soon....she may do like Liz's doe...................Plop.....woe... :shocked:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

To tell the truth I am a little nervous about cutting the stitch in time ... I am sure it will be fine but every other time this doe has kidded I have been away and she has been at my friends place. My friend however, assures me that every other time she has been very vocal, lots of murmuring, so I'm sure I will pick it ok.

I'm still debating whether to cut it early or not. I really dont think its a good idea in this situation because I'm thinking she might prolapse again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

she will prolapse again... if you take out the stitch...  .... you had mentioned... she is doing it when laying down....  ..I know you have been under alot of stress....try not to worry and just have your friend ...keep checking on her often... seems like your doe... will tell the tale when it's time....verbally


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

day 2 :wink:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

day 139 and going strong! cant wait to meet the babies :greengrin:


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

I am always hoping to hear a good update when I check in on this thread, so far sounds real good! Hope she continues to do so well. :hi5:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

count down for the first session on kidding in the safe zone is over....what a relief... :wink: .....now we can count down to 145 days...  LOL...but she may go at anytime.. :shades: 
6 days countdown....today.....

I am so glad she made it this far....and is doing well .....at least now..... if she kids ....her kids will be OK...and she will be able to care for them  

Praying for a :girl: :girl: :girl: ray: :leap:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Well, we have reached day 140. Breathe a big sigh of relief. Dreamed last night that she kidded, but nope, I think she wants to cook them a bit longer. She was horned in both sides of the udder in different incidents during the last year, and one of the questions on my mind was whether she would milk or not. Looks like one side is going to work but the other will be dead. So may have to top up the babies.

[attachment=0:1om8zvkn]Vanity 2.JPG[/attachment:1om8zvkn]


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so glad that she is doing well. Just a few more days......

Are you going to breed her again due to her prolapse or will she be retired?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Well, that is the million dollar question. If I get a doe kid out of this litter with no cull faults (teeth/teats/colour) I will probably cull her, for the prolapse plus the udder and her feet arent that great. But, if I dont get a doe I am very tempted to breed her again, as I said she cost me so much to buy and even though there is all this hassle and time I do want a doe out of her before she is culled.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

That makes sense to me


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Well, we have reached day 140. Breathe a big sigh of relief. Dreamed last night that she kidded, but nope, I think she wants to cook them a bit longer. She was horned in both sides of the udder in different incidents during the last year, and one of the questions on my mind was whether she would milk or not. Looks like one side is going to work but the other will be dead. So may have to top up the babies.


keren....I am so happy for you and your doe.....I pray she gives you all :girl: :girl: :girl: ...that way you have anyone of them ....to choose from ...and I pray they have no defects(perfect)....I guess you will know if her bag is good after she kids... I hope they both work.....I can't blame you if you cull her out .......that was so nerve racking....but do you think ........that her offspring will have the same problem...? I heard that is can be hereditary?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

toth, yes I think it can be hereditary, and if I keep a doe I will keep it in mind and select carefully. But this doe has had 11 kids in 3 yrs and never had a problem like this before. I dont have any of her does left because they were either sold or died. Come to think of it, I think there is only one doe left from her that belongs to my friend, she has just kidded for the first time. I guess subsequent kiddings will show whether she has inherited the problem. 

I know most people will tell me I'm crazy to keep a doe from her, also crazy to contemplate joining her again, however with the amount of money sunk into this doe, I want to get some sort of return. Not just 3 wethers and a cull doe.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> toth, yes I think it can be hereditary, and if I keep a doe I will keep it in mind and select carefully. But this doe has had 11 kids in 3 yrs and never had a problem like this before. I dont have any of her does left because they were either sold or died. Come to think of it, I think there is only one doe left from her that belongs to my friend, she has just kidded for the first time. I guess subsequent kiddings will show whether she has inherited the problem.
> 
> I know most people will tell me I'm crazy to keep a doe from her, also crazy to contemplate joining her again, however with the amount of money sunk into this doe, I want to get some sort of return. Not just 3 wethers and a cull doe.


 I can't blame you for trying to keep a doeling out of her...... especially if ...you paid that much for her.....and you are right........... there may be a 50/50 chance if she passes prolapsing or not.....for you keren ........I really pray...... her offspring will be fine...11 kids in 3 years is alot.....so we will pray and see..... ray:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

My belief is that there is more to a prolaps then heredity. :shrug: 


Heres to healthy kids :girl: :girl: :girl:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

By the way ....Vanity's face picture............ she looks so cute....and she certainly looks healthier ...like she is feeling better.......The past pics she did not look well....
new count down ....LOL  Day..5  I am still here for you.....keren ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Just having breakfast then off to the vet because she has prolapsed again ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow....keren...maybe your vet will induce her to kid?
I pray it goes well.....I am sorry she prolapsed again,, but thank god........ she is now in the safe zone... ray: Let us know how it goes? :worried:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

toth, I will talk to her about possibly inducing. I havent looked real close to see whether the string has broken or if she has just pushed under it. If it has broken, it should be ok to just put a new one in, but if not ... well last time we stitched she said we couldnt stitch any lower because the scar tissue would start interfering with her piddling. So if that is the case inducing might be the better idea. 

Will let you know how we go.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

OK keren....good luck ... ray: :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Her kids are in the safe zone...I would see about inducing her and be prepared when she does deliver...she may or may not push her entire uterus out with the last kid. As far as heredity goes....I don't believe that is a major factor...my doe that prolapsed was the first ever occurrance here...I also have her dam who delivered 2 singles, 2 sets of twins and 2 sets of triplets without any problems ever, I hope all goes well and you do get a doeling out of her as IMO, in my does case, she won't ever be bred again....mine are pets though.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Just wanted to let you know I have been watching this thread and I am ray: for you both.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

how did it go?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Sorry didnt update earlier, had my nephews (1 and a half and 3) and as you probably know that doesnt leave much room for anything else!

On closer inspection, she had actually torn the stitch through the vulva and that had obviously allowed the prolapse. And it didnt leave us with enough vulva to re-do the purse string. So we are trying a ewe bearing retainer, which usually you tie to the wool but obviously no wool, so we have devised this little contraption with a dog harness and some baling twine.

[attachment=1:3khtt2os]PB240767.JPG[/attachment:3khtt2os]

[attachment=0:3khtt2os]PB240769.JPG[/attachment:3khtt2os]

Hopefully she decides to have them in the next few days because I cant see this staying in very long, I've already had to redo it once today.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh boy she is STILL Hanging onto them? geesh! I figure by now she is ready to let them out! THey probably will just slide out once labor begins!


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh wow! Poor goat, hope she has them soon!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Ouch! :shocked: That looks so very painful.  Poor girl! I sure hope she does have them soon.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Hopefully she decides to have them in the next few days because I cant see this staying in very long, I've already had to redo it once today.


Day 4 count down...
wow...poor girl....so the vet decided not to induce..... :scratch: oh well.....she has 4 days to go for 145 days.....I hope she has them real soon ... I ......as well ...........cannot see it staying on long either....it's like there should be a string from the top area...going around her flank area... and around and up... to the other side... so it doesn't pull up...as easy? :? ....
I am sorry she ripped....Ouch.....that sure would of hurt....  ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Day 142 and she is looking comfy as ever. Actually the device is staying in better than I thought. I have used them with sheep with not a lot of sucess - ok on little prolapses but big prolapses they just push really hard and they are out again. Because they are designed to allow the ewe to lamb with the device in. 

toth, since there was a good chance of there being three or four in there we decided that every day was going to help them and considering the doe is not sick anymore we thought even if we can get her a couple more days it is better for the babies. We actually decided that if the device was going to stay in then we would leave her, but if it was going to constantly fall out and need replacing then we would induce. 

But, all goes well at the moment! Honestly though, this goat is killing me :roll:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

completely understandable.....that is a great idea...I was just thinking on how nerve racked :hair: 
you are by now....  I feel so sorry for you as well... :hug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks toth :hug: I actually think my vet was more stressed to see me yesterday than me or the goat! She said to me honestly, hasnt she kidded yet?? lol

The little one is stressing me out more in fact. Also the bunch that might/might not be in kid, the saanen with an is-it-eye-cancer and the one that keeps getting under the fence into the neighbours backyard eating all the pot plants. lol Many many stressful goats if I start thinking about it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

your welcome..keren  ..well thank God ..the vets thinking was wrong ....and vanity is holding on.....  
I am sorry your saanen has eye cancer ..what a horrible thing to happen.....  
and your other goat eating pot plants....that is different..... :shocked: And to top it off ....you have a jumper........ WOW... I guess you do have your hands full ...don't you.....Do you still have any hair left..LOL ? :hair:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Ah well thats just livestock and farming for you, isnt it?

I'm not sure about the saanen. Its the one I got recently and I just noticed she has a reddened, thickened third eyelid. Looks a lot like a cancer (I've had them in dairy cows) but I've never seen it on one so young :scratch: 

Ooooopps, realised I maybe should have written potted plants, as in plants in pots ... just realised 'pot plants' could be taken in a different way ...


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

keren said:


> Ooooopps, realised I maybe should have written potted plants, as in plants in pots ... just realised 'pot plants' could be taken in a different way ...


 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Are you sure that your saanen doesn't have something foreign in her 3rd eyelid.....
I had a doeling that did ....and wow ....it didn't take long at all....to make her eye look horrible....
took her to the vet and he found a seed in there...we looked prior and couldn't find anything ....he even had trouble finding it....but did...she is fine now...  
pot plants ....and plants in a pot..... are definitely a big difference ....LOL... We all :doh: 
:ROFL: :ROFL:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

:ROFL: :slapfloor:  :doh: 

toth, about the eye, yeah I need to take her in to the vet to have her assessed, because I cant find anything in it but as you said ... 

I should have thought to take her in with Vanity yesterday. Oh well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't blame you ...I would take her in to... :sun: ..it might be something simple....sometimes it is hard to find or may just be a scratch...the vet has some eye drops that point out scratches and stuff...........if you wait to long .....and it is something simple .....it could become a permanent and a bad thing.....  

I have taken an animal to the vet before ....and forgot to take in another...it is aggravating.... :doh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

:GAAH: 

Checking her every few hours ... dont think she's gonna pop any time soon. 

I did the sums and this kidding my two Boer does went at 142 days, the two Angoras that I had a breeding date on went 152 days. So it would be really nice if she followed the Boer trend ... 

ray:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i hope she goes soon.. if the suspense is killing me... you must be dead twice over!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Day 143 ....darn still nothing....she is a little booger.... :doh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yep, I went out this morning and she is just sitting there, chewing her cud, she looked up and grinned at me :greengrin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awwwwwwwww................how cute.... :greengrin: :greengrin: 
that makes me picture her saying with her Cheshire grin...." I am holding on to these kids
just to make you squirm......"


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Grrrrr .....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Well, I've been watching this waitong for nice healthy kids and it hasn't happened yet...I can't take it any more. I have a disorder called CWK (a.k.a. Can't Wait for Kids) and it's starting to affect my sanity.LOL!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Oh man, I'm feeling a bit

[attachment=2:2rwc2v2x]stressed monkey.jpg[/attachment:2rwc2v2x]

And also a little

[attachment=1:2rwc2v2x]sleepingtoddler.jpg[/attachment:2rwc2v2x]

And if she doesnt have those kids soon, I am gonna get really cranky, I might even lose it completely and go on a rampage!

[attachment=0:2rwc2v2x]Pandadodgemcar.jpg[/attachment:2rwc2v2x]


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

:ROFL: :ROFL:


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

:ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:ROFL: :ROFL: keren .....that is hilarious.... 

you know.. what I think ... :idea: ......she will kid on thanksgiving ......it will be her gift to you.....
then you could thank her for giving..LOL


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

you know.. what I think ... ......she will kid on thanksgiving ......it will be her gift to you.....
then you could thank her for giving..LOL 
Very well put toth.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

thank you sarah....  that would be a wonderful thing.... ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

ok guys you are gonna have to help me out, when is thanksgiving? We dont have that here ...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanksgiving is an American holiday you all -- remember she is in Australia.

Thanksgiving is on the 27th (Thursday) this year.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks Stacey. So in that case, tomorrows the day!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanksgiving is an American holiday you all -- remember she is in Australia.


wow I didn't realize that....... :doh: .....I thought it was celebrated all over the world ....wow I just learned something new...I am so dumb..and embarrassed :doh:  ...... 



> Thanks Stacey. So in that case, tomorrows the day!


  ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

dont worry toth, it happens to the best of us. 

Dont worry ... be happy 

Oh man, see what this is doing to my brain  :scratch:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

OK mate.....  .....it's my brain that is a little warped..yours is just stressed out.....LOL


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

BUGGER!

I just got all excited cos I went outside and she was lying down with her leg straight out like they do when they are pushing ... 

... but she was just resting. She grinned at me again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

that d a r n little bugger .....she better quit teasing you...  :hug:


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

that goat REALLY needs to pop :roll:


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

:ROFL: She's just going by the "Does Code of Honor".----and she's getting you good! :hair: 
Candy :sun:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

day 144 :help:


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm sorry I didn't relize  ! Well anyway tomorrow is what I hoping for or my CWK is gonna start acting up again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I'm sorry I didn't relize  ! Well anyway tomorrow is what I hoping for or my CWK is gonna start acting up again.


sarah...don't feel bad ...I didn't have a clue either ...  boy ....did it make me feel like mud.....:doh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Happy thanksgiving guys!

No babies yet, doesnt look like she's planning on sharing them with us any time soon either. 

I told her when I went out this morning that she'd better have them, otherwise I am either going to start jumping on and squeezing her belly, or I'm just gonna reach up in there and haul them out myself!


... she turned around and pee'd on me


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Happy thanksgiving guys!
> No babies yet, doesnt look like she's planning on sharing them with us any time soon either.
> I told her when I went out this morning that she'd better have them, otherwise I am either going to start jumping on and squeezing her belly, or I'm just gonna reach up in there and haul them out myself!
> 
> ... she turned around and pee'd on me


 Thank you Keren....she is still being a little turd.....and she........ pee'd on you... :doh: ...that is just down right...awful of her......... :shocked: she needs to squat out some kids.....dag nab it..... :hug: 
when they finally do come out......you will need to name them "no rush"...."not in any hurry".."stress factor", "hair puller", ...LOL


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

lol love the names but they ideally need to start with D ... 

any suggestions?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow ...I can't think of any right off the get go......I'll have to try to think about it....


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Dang It
lol

PUSH THOSE KIDS OUT ALREADY! :hair:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

yeah, I'm debating putting a ratchet strap around her belly and tightening it a few notches every hour ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

it is tempting ...... :hug: :hi5:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Now see if you take this smiley:

:hug: 

and imagine I am the red smiley and Vanity is the green smiley ... and hug just a little harder ...


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Now see if you take this smiley:
> 
> :hug:
> 
> and imagine I am the red smiley and Vanity is the green smiley ... and hug just a little harder ...


 yep........LOL :ROFL:


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## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

Karen- Why don't you do the breathing excercises with her-maybe she will get the idea :ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Karen- Why don't you do the breathing excercises with her-maybe she will get the idea :ROFL:


 puff...puff...pufff ......weee ....LOL :ROFL:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

go on a walk,,,


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

No, do your laundry and have lunch. That worked for me. :wink: :slapfloor:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Well I just went out to put the naughty escapee goats back ... realised they had got out when one was grazing outside the window next to the computer lol

And she has pushed her bearing retainer out, not prolapsed though. I didnt put it back in straight away just in case she was deciding to do something. 

So .... might go back out and check on her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Well I just went out to put the naughty escapee goats back ... realised they had got out when one was grazing outside the window next to the computer lol
> 
> And she has pushed her bearing retainer out, not prolapsed though. I didnt put it back in straight away just in case she was deciding to do something.
> 
> So .... might go back out and check on her.


 naughty girl.....that was funny though ...I bet you did a double take.... when you seen a goat ....not where she was suppose to be....LOL  
I am glad she didn't prolapse......doesn't she know .....she has to wear that thing...? LOL


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

it was one of my ex poddies and she looked up at the window like, hey mum! look what we did we are having soooo much fun!

lol

little bit of clear mucus on Vanity's vulva when I went out just now ... nothing much happening otherwise though. Might leave the retainer out for now. Just in case.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That would of been funny to see...LOL



> little bit of clear mucus on Vanity's vulva


 wow.... that sounds closer... :shades:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

it does, doesnt it?

I was talking to my friend that had her all the other times she kidded, and she said that she did it all without warning, a bit like ok, I think I'll sit down and have some kids now. So it might might maybe be possible to get your thanksgiving kids. I am gonna keep an eye on her. 

But then again, it is probably just wishful thinking :roll:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I hope she does have them soon....and with no complications. It's good that she hasn't prolapsed again too...maybe she knows something you don't?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> it does, doesnt it?
> 
> I was talking to my friend that had her all the other times she kidded, and she said that she did it all without warning, a bit like ok, I think I'll sit down and have some kids now. So it might might maybe be possible to get your thanksgiving kids. I am gonna keep an eye on her.
> 
> But then again, it is probably just wishful thinking :roll:


I know keren.......it has been quite an ordeal and need it ....to be over......I think we may be a day ahead of you ....because today is wednesday and thanksgiving is on thursday in which.. is tomorrow...LOL....  ...but it does sound like she is closer ....it may be her plug ...is it clear kinda tube like...with a light shade of amber?
If so it could be within 24 hours...  I hope I am right ....


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

ha, yes, it is already Thursday 27th here. Its about 4pm. 


Didnt look so much like the plug more like the actual fluids. 

:shrug: 

We will see. 

I do hope she has them soon, tonight would be great because otherwise I am going to have to take her with me when I go to work tomorrow, as I will be staying all weekend there while the boss is away.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> ha, yes, it is already Thursday 27th here. Its about 4pm.
> 
> Didnt look so much like the plug more like the actual fluids.
> 
> ...


[/quote:1q7zg6lj] wow it is 9pm here.......Wednesday nov 26th....
It just looked like fluids....oh well..I know it will be sometime soon....well I hope and pray ray: anyway..... How is her ligaments in her tail head ...can you touch your fingers together yet? 
and when she starts to drop...then it will be close....


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Ligs have been gone for weeks lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh man.... she is throwing me off....not fair.....


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

More goop, amber tinted now 

:leap: 

Think I might have kids by tonight!

Gonna go out now and do chores, some drafting and feed up, so I can keep an eye on her. So hopefully when I next talk to you it will be to share baby pics!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh please...please.. ray: ..please.. ray: .please.. ray: ..please.. ray: .please.... ray:
Let there be kids.....  :hug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Well toth, you got your thanksgiving kids! (even if it wasnt quite thanksgiving over there)

Shortly after I first noticed the mucus she had:

1 pretty spotted buck kid great big lump of a thing (nooooo idea where the colour came from :scratch: )



















Then 1 traditional buck kid even bigger










1 small doe kid, who was DOA 

So I'm kinda disappointed about the doe kid. You know how much I wanted that doe kid.

But I'm going to focus on being thankful that I have two live kids and a live mum. Couple of weeks ago I didnt think I would have any 

So ... names anyone?

I know it doesnt start with D but I was thinking Pilgrim (cos of thanksgiving obviously) and Pride (because of her name). Anyone else got any D names?

These kids stink!










MUUUUUUUUM - I want some MIIIIIIIILK! Boy these guys have got some lungs on them!










You can see how much colour he has - its a bit of a shame. Couldnt get any better shots of him because he's a greedy pig and wouldnt stop drinking lol


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

So cute! Congrats on the boys, sorry about the doe :sigh: . Don't they like the "pinto" Boers, down under? Folks seem to like them here. They look pretty big...do you have "birth weights" on them?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Congrats on the kids!   

Sorry about the doe.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

```
1 small doe kid, who was DOA :(
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I am so sorry ...  ...you lost the doeling.....oh man .....I prayed for you to get a doe ... but I didn't expect it that way.....again keren I am so sorry.. :tears: ..but you do ....have some really nice bucks there.....they do look big....I do like the names you picked for them.....  ....How is momma doing? she looks real good......and happy....she is sure relieved of stress just as ...you are.....and we all are ...just as you said ......you were so close to losing her...that today we have to be thankful for .....what we were given...Happy Thanksgiving to you keren....from california........This is thanks giving and I am so happy you can finally get some rest....they do look strong and so does mom....so now you can ......relax a little more ..........and I bet your stress levels are alot lower now.... :hug: :hi5: congrats..... :sun: :leap: :leap:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Congrats on the two healthy boys :leap: but I am very sorry to hear about the doe.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

AWESOME!!! They are gorgeous little fellows!! Just so handsome!


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Congrats on the kids! Sorry abourt the doe but be happy for the bucklings!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Better give you guys an update. 

This morning when I went out the little coloured buck was dead. I fed them at 10pm before I went to bed then I got up at 3am (helped them find the udder) and he was the stronger of the two. But, when he drank the milk he got a really bad rattle in his lungs. I'm just wondering if he had a defect where the milk was going into his lungs as well as his stomach. Because he was fine until he drank, then the rattling started. 

Also Vanity is not so well this morning - has retained the placenta and feeling quite crook about it. Will go into the vet after breakfast to get some stuff. 

Looks like the story continues!




Di - they dont accept colours like that into the show ring and he really shouldnt even be registered as a buck. The colour rules they give us are: the red on the neck cannot extend back beyond the shoulder, cannot extend down the front legs, tail may be coloured but not extending past the tail, patches and spots on the body or legs together must not exceed 10cm in diameter. Minimum colour requirements are for a patch on either side of the head 10cm in diameter, ears must be at least 75% coloured. Which is all pretty ridiculous really because I've seen some excellent unreg. buck, only unreg. because of their colour. 

Birthweights - coloured buck 2.9kg = 6.4 lbs
- traditional buck - 3.4kg = 7.5 lbs
- doe - 2.7kg = 5.9 lbs

I was suprised that they differed so much, actually. I figure the coloured buck and doe were in one horn, the trad. buck in the other.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I'm so sorry that the bucklig died and thst Vanity isn't doing well.  :hug: The vet will be able to take care of her. That is rediculous coloring rules IMO!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Also Vanity is not so well this morning - has retained the placenta and feeling quite crook about it. Will go into the vet after breakfast to get some stuff.


 I am so...sorry ....for your loss....d a r n...  you must be devastated :hug: 
.. is the traditional buck eating OK...? 
Good luck with getting vanity feeling better and her placenta to expel.....do you think she may have milk fever to?

As for the painted kids....here .......for the longest time........... judges would actually throw the solid colors and paints.......... out of the goat show ring(turned them away )...but now..... they allow them.....and are very popular and winning .....
one day...... they may change the rules....there....where you are............as they did here........


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I think she has ended up with a slight infection, not too bad. Have given her lots of antibiotics. 

Placenta is starting to come away now, trad. buck is hungry and sucking well but struggling with his legs. Gave him a shot of vit. ADE to help. 

Yeah, bit sad that I lost another one, but as I said I dont think there was anything to be done for him. I suppose if I was going to lose one, its better him because of the colour, he probably would have just been a wether.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

just wonderin about how many bucks a year, or kidding season, do you keep keren?

hope everyone recovers!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

AB - with the boers at work (300 odd does) we try to only keep about 5 - 10% intact. 

With the ones I actually own, well I dont own many so the percentages sort of dont make sense, but I only had three reg. Boer does kid this year, Matilda had 1 buck which I kept (Da Vinci) due to bloodlines, Charlotte had two bucks one I wethered but one is showing promise at the moment, and now Vanity - will see how he goes but if he doesnt shape up he will loose his testicles too. Calamity isnt registered and her boys werent good enough anyway, so they were both wethered. From the angoras I got mainly doe kids, I ended up with only four buck kids and none of them were good enough to keep intact, so they were all wethered.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

300 does? that's alot!

also wondering , do the Australian breeders keep updated on the shows in the U.S? or are they two totally different worlds? I know i dont keep updated internationally. 

when you posted the pedigrees, i had no idea of the goats. so probably; if there were american boers on a pedigree you wouldnt recognize them or the breeders? (if that makes any sense!?)


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

The top studs here have up to and over 1000 does ... 

And nope, I couldnt tell you anything about the US Boer scene, show winners, top bloodlines etc. 

I guess because breeders here really dont look to the US as a source of new genetics (no offense intended), South Africa is just seen as the obvious place to get new lines from. Seeing as they originated there. 

Also, our show rings judge to the Sth African breed standard - hence the colour limitations, also probably why people go for Sth Af imports for semen and embryos, rather than US. US animals that I have seen dont tend to follow the Sth Af breed standard as strictly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I think she has ended up with a slight infection, not too bad. Have given her lots of antibiotics.
> 
> Placenta is starting to come away now, trad. buck is hungry and sucking well but struggling with his legs. Gave him a shot of vit. ADE to help.
> 
> Yeah, bit sad that I lost another one, but as I said I dont think there was anything to be done for him. I suppose if I was going to lose one, its better him because of the colour, he probably would have just been a wether.


oh...... at least it is sounding alot better.... 

did you put a bolus into her ?

You sure have to deal with alot of goats at work..... :help: LOL


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Not a bolus, just gave her a heavy dose of oxytetracycline IM. 

Yes, bit of a breather at work now for three months until the next batch kids :help:


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

aww I'm so sorry about the two you lost!! I really hope the remaining buckling does well for you.

The oxytet should work - does for me anyway :greengrin: (usually)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Not a bolus, just gave her a heavy dose of oxytetracycline IM.
> 
> Yes, bit of a breather at work now for three months until the next batch kids :help:


sounds like you have her covered then........ :thumbup: How is things going today...keren?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

She's doing ok, still a little down but thats to be expected if she's got an infection. She passed the placenta 24 hrs after she kidded! Took a while. 

The little buck still cannot stand, so I am a little concerned about that. But he is wriggling around and feeding himself and she is being very patient and standing over him, good thing she has a poor udder and it is very low to the ground (dont often think of it that way, do you! lol)

LW - oxytet is my best friend :greengrin: and its just a bit easier to give an injection than a bolus. It has worked for me in the past with metritis.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> oxytet is my best friend :greengrin: and its just a bit easier to give an injection than a bolus.


 that sounds terrific...I just learned something new.... :thumbup:

I'm so glad she passed her placenta ...
as I mentioned in...the other post....try to give bo-se shot and nutra dench him until he is stronger....
I am glad she is such a good momma ...standing there...for him...awww ....how sweet...  .....
Your right.......... I usually don't think of a udder real low to the ground is..... real good other ,than this situation...  :thumbup: :hi5:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

its always good to learn something new


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

so true keren,,,,so true....  :thumbup: :thumbup: :hi5:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

UPDATE:

Mum is doing well, eating hay and pellets. Still a little down. 

Kid is able to stand for short periods of time, I actually saw him standing and nursing twice this afternoon. 

Looks like this story has a half happy ending


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I have these two recipes that may help your little kid. The second one could be good for momma too. . . . but it seems like she is doing so much better.  That's great!

*Nutri Drench (make it yourself)*
1 Cup Molasses
1 Cup Corn Oil (she said it has to be corn oil, nothing else!)
2 Cups Karo Syrup

*Here's a mixture for weak goats/kids :
Magic---*1 part Molasses
1 part Corn oil
2 parts Karo syrup (light)
Store mixture in dark, cool place.
Numerous uses. Goats off feed, dehydration, pregnancy toxemia, stress, kidding
difficulties, weak kids. Takes longer to metabolize.
Good to use to get a goat/kid through the night.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> UPDATE:
> 
> Mum is doing well, eating hay and pellets. Still a little down.
> 
> ...


 great news....sounds like he is getting stronger....
and mom is doing alright to..  :hug: :thumbup:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks Capriola, but what is Karo syrup? I wonder what the Australian equivalent is ... 

They are doing great today.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> They are doing great today.


 :leap: :thumbup:


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

I second what Toth just said... :leap: :thumbup:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I second what Toth just said... :leap: :thumbup:


thanks ....Tina....keren will appreciate that....  :hug:


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## tremayne (Feb 8, 2008)

Karo syrup is corn syrup. It comes in two varieties in the U.S. , light, which is clear with no color and dark, which is a translucent brown. It seemed from what I read that the closest would be golden syrup for the dark or glucose syrup for the light. 

I searched for this information, but I'm not 100% certain of what the UK versions are in comparison to the U.S.'s. :scratch:

Hope this makes at least a little sense. 

So glad to hear your doe and buck kid are improving. :clap: 

Anna


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