# Help Me Pick a New Herdsire



## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

We are just about ready to buy a new herd-sire and I'm having a difficult time picking one/deciding what to do. So I'd love some thoughts on your personal opinion. 

Option 1:
A son from RBBG1 PAINT THE TOWN RED **Ennobled**. They have super nice does, so pretty much any buckling we would potentially get from them would be really, really nice. The hesitation here is that we'd like to have a doe or three bred in April/May for Fall 2015 kids and East Heritage only JUST had 4 bucklings born and, I believe, no more until March-May. Which means it's even questionable (for the May bucklings--March and probably April would be okay) that he would be ready to breed in October when I breed the majority of my does for. It's possible that I could lease a buck for the 1-3 does that I need bred in April...The 2 does that kidded are actually Red's daughters, so those bucks are line-bred, which doesn't bother me, considering the stock. 

Red at 2 1/2:









Red's Daughters and Dams of Just-Born bucklings:









Photo album of Red:
https://www.facebook.com/lisa.stroh...11824918064.1073741834.100000077584736&type=3

Option 2:
DLTJ5 SVSG's Cash Is King. I really like this guy and I really like his genetics, but ALL of his immediate pedigree genetics are traditional goats. He did throw a little bit of color in his kids, but he was also bred to does with color in their genetics (I'm not sure if he threw any color on does w/o color genes). That said, I don't want to get TOO caught up on the color! His dam and sire are both really nice goats and he himself is super nice to look at!

Cash in the Fall (I'm supposed to be getting updated, "Winter Woolies" pictures soon):










Sire:









Dam:









Option 3:
Cool Breeze Frost Bite (DOB 3/14/14)
This guy is a really neat buck, but I'm not sure he's quite what we need or worth the price they have on him. He is being raised on only about 1lb of grain a day so he looks really good considering that (we try to raise with minimal grain, too, so that's a plus). He's been DNA'd so that's also a plus and he has 4 show points. I LOVE his dam, and I like his sire.

Pictures of him as a youngster:










Recent photos:





































Dam:










Sire:



















Option 4:
A son of BON JOLI Here Comes The Boom (aka "Boomer"). He is a September kid so about 4 months old. I really love Bon Joli lines, so this would be a big plus. His dam also has Bon Joli. I wasn't even looking for a dappled buck, but...

Pictures of the buckling:























































Pictures of Boomer:



















I don't think any of the choices are necessarily bad, which makes it even harder, I guess! Finding the BEST choice for my girls for the next two years!  SOOOOOO, who would YOU pick??  :crazy::crazy:


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I like number 2


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## burtfarms (Apr 4, 2013)

I also like option #2


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

For what you need I would.go with 2 as well. You know he's ready to breed and can get the job done. I don't like getting older bucks so if it was me in your shoes I would go with 4


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

I have no idea about the actual bucks, but I love the heart shape on #4 head! So cute 


Owned by 16 miniature goats, 2 boer goats, 8 horses, 4 dogs, 6 cats, 9 parrots and too many chickens to count!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I guess I'm the odd one out here, I'd go with 1 or 3. I really dislike tubey goats (2) and #4 just doesn't do much for me. Red looks like a real powerhouse, and while I'm not good at judging when they're young Frost Bite's dam has that deep productive style that I just love. He'll probably be better for your short term plans as far as fall breeding, but if he's not what you need for your program it's not worth it.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

They are all nice bucks with their own qualities...the coloring on #3 is very unique which I love but I think #1 is my favorite. A very hard decision indeed.
Good luck.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I have been keeping am eye on #3 - he has been for sale for quite a while. I agree the price is too high. I love love his coloring and his twin is stunning too! 

I wouldn't go with option 1 as you just won't be able to depend on a kid just born getting the job done. Plus I think it is harder to choose a good kid then a good yearling or older - I personally like to buy then already developed.

Which farm is #4 at? Cool Breeze also? I would lean towards Option #2 depending on his age - he could still fill out more.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

My pick is #1 but he's probably not the best one for your situation. For your situation, I'm leaning towards #4 but I'd need to see a picture of his dam to be sure. That being said, I'd be thrilled to have any of them in my herd! I can see why your having such a hard time deciding.

Edit: what do you call the color of buck number 3? I've never seen one have a red body with black points. He's handsome.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't think there is an official boer term for #3's color pattern - it is VERY unusual in boers! What you said, solid red with black points, is probably as accurate as it gets!


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

^^^Cool. Thanks for answering.


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

SalteyLove said:


> I have been keeping am eye on #3 - he has been for sale for quite a while. I agree the price is too high. I love love his coloring and his twin is stunning too!
> 
> I wouldn't go with option 1 as you just won't be able to depend on a kid just born getting the job done. Plus I think it is harder to choose a good kid then a good yearling or older - I personally like to buy then already developed.
> 
> Which farm is #4 at? Cool Breeze also? I would lean towards Option #2 depending on his age - he could still fill out more.


Yes, usually when something as nice as Frost Bite is for sale as long as he's been for sale it's because everyone thinks the price is a bit high. And I am in no way criticizing them for it, it's their goat, they can price him how they want and I completely respect that! She's a very helpful person! But for me personally (and for you, too, apparently! ), $1,000 is just a hair too much. I would want more width and butt on him for that price.  If he had that....THEN!!! :goattruck: Welcome home!

#4 is at Stoney Acres they have some nice thick goats. I'm sure his dam is no exception.'

One of the problems is that I''m having a hard time weighing the pros and cons of adult vs kid. Kids tend to be a bit cheaper and in both of the above examples, I'm willing to bet on the genetics alone that they're going to be REALLY nice (though I really don't like Boomer's topline...). With kids you get to raise them how you want them raised, but at the same time that means you need to really feed them to grow them!


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I guess I'm the odd one out here, I'd go with 1 or 3. I really dislike tubey goats (2) and #4 just doesn't do much for me. Red looks like a real powerhouse, and while I'm not good at judging when they're young Frost Bite's dam has that deep productive style that I just love. He'll probably be better for your short term plans as far as fall breeding, but if he's not what you need for your program it's not worth it.


I really hate "tubey" Boers, too!! I think it was a weird growing stage he was going through, as his other pictures of him as a "younger-than-yearling" pictures he is NOT tubey. I just wrote the owner and reminded her that I wanted updated pictures.  I'll share when I get them.

I also wrote and asked the owner of a really nice buck how much it would be to lease him for April/May...


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I like number three. Especially since he's raised on minimal grain. A number 1 would be nice looking, but they would be raised on more grain then number 3. So if you're trying to get minimal grain genetics, I'd go with #3.


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

Oh I thought I would add that #1's price is unknown as they don't price until weaning (but their prices that I've seen on bucks they've sold is $600-$1500). #2 is $700, #3 is $1000 and #4 is also $1000.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

#2 over all, is nice and both Sire and Dam have what it takes.
Price is good too. He is paint so, the odds are better for him to throw paints, than his sire and dam, also if he is thrown with paint does or has does with paint genetics who are traditional should throw paints. to me this buck has better conformation than the other choices, along with his sire and dam.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

mrs.beers said:


> I really hate "tubey" Boers, too!! I think it was a weird growing stage he was going through, as his other pictures of him as a "younger-than-yearling" pictures he is NOT tubey. I just wrote the owner and reminded her that I wanted updated pictures.  I'll share when I get them.


No, his sire is the same way - very shallow heartgirth. He got most of his build from that side. The dam is deeper but still too modern for my taste.

#3 is still my choice, especially if you might pay as much for a kid from #1 and not even be able to breed to him this year. If he's been for sale a while they might be flexible on the price.

Technically speaking his color is blackbelly - the same pattern as Oberhaslis. ABGA probably doesn't have a term for it though.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

At first I actually thought "Paint The Town Red", himself, was for sale. Those folks do seem to have nice goats. If you could skim the best buck kid off this year's kid crop from them, that might be worth waiting for...

The one and only picture of #2 you have shows what looks like a really cool buck. I wonder if he's as good as that picture?

Personally, I would stay away from the weird colored buck. #3. That is sort of obscure colored goat breeding and if they are wanting top dollar.... IDK. I would pass. 

Bon Joli breeding is famous. I would want to be sure you were buying the top end of that breeding though and not just buy him because of "Bon Joli". If you know what I mean. He's not really impressing at this stage.


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

> At first I actually thought "Paint The Town Red", himself, was for sale. Those folks do seem to have nice goats. If you could skim the best buck kid off this year's kid crop from them, that might be worth waiting for...
> 
> The one and only picture of #2 you have shows what looks like a really cool buck. I wonder if he's as good as that picture?
> 
> ...


Tenacross, you were very helpful, thank you for commenting! I know not to get caught up in "color over conformation" and you reminded me not to get caught up in "name over quality"! Thank you! You enabled me to face my gut feeling of "he's not quite what I'm looking for..." (#4)! 

I really think it's between #1 and #2, now (yay! Narrowing down!). I just don't feel either #3 or #4 are worth the full $1000.

I have seen a recent video (only front half/side view of him--he's romancing a doe, lol!) of Cash (#2) and I _think _his updated pictures are going to be even better. I really need to see his twist and a front view before I decide for sure. I've bought from Cash's owner before and they're really nice people with a gorgeous clean herd.


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## RaineyDayFarms (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm no expert at all, but personally I'd go with either 1 or 2. Two would likely be better for your needs right now though. You could always get both bucks. 
I really like #1s goats. They does look nice and correct. You should get quality and color.

Three is a pretty color, but Im not sure he's worth 1,000. He doesn't seem to built nearly as nice as #2.

Four is also a pretty color. I like a lot of bon joli goats. I have a doe from there. She's nice, but has room for improvement. I really agree with Tenacross about getting their best. 

Good luck in choosing, its a hard decision for sure.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I would definitely go with #1 or #2. A buckling out of Red would be really nice in my eyes.  Just my :2cents:


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## midlothianffa (May 5, 2013)

Personally as much as I love the spots and dappled I would also go with 1 or 2 the there is something I can't put my finger on but I don't like about the 3rd one


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

Updated pictures! He's not as deep-bodied as I like, but I really like his width, he seems to have a nice butt (lol!) and seems to have good legs. Looks like he has a good topline, too. Really, the depth of body is the thing that stands out most to me, and my does all have nice depth, but could use some of the other traits that he _does_ have. I'd love to hear more thoughts on him (or a Red son--it seems like it might be hard to get one of those, as they do at least one production sale... :-/)

























http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Generally, it's really hard to take a flattering picture of a goat standing around in the back lot. Yet this guy still looks darn cool. That says something, IMO. It's hard to tell how big he is, not that I would expect him to be small. It's hard to say what's under all that hair and fluff, but I still have no reason to think it's not pretty good goat meat. I agree he "seems to have good legs". And again, that's with him just standing there and no one setting him up or hiding anything. 

If you can afford or need more, you can likely find a better buck, but I wouldn't try to talk you out of this one. JMO.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Did you make a decision?!

I was wondering how that guy's temperament and teat structure are?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

The first pic is hard to judge by in the way he is standing. 

But he looks to have good width and big butt.

He looks good to me, of what I can see.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Your deep bodied does would make up for his "lack".


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

Saltey, I think we'll probably go with Cash (most recently pictured). He is 2x2 clean. She says he's a nice, easy boy, but gets a little rowdy when he has does in heat (no problem there--understandable). We've bought from her before and I trust what she says.  She just sent his DNA stuff in to be done so we'll probably wait until that's done (and we either need to sell Sherlock OR get our tax money before we can buy him, anyway).

Nancy, that's what I'm thinking! My does definitely have faults but lack of depth of body isn't one of them!  He has a nice topline (from what I can tell), strong legs and width and butt, all of which my does could definitely use some improvement on!

Soooooo, whenever Sherlock sells or we get our tax money we'll probably get this guy! I'll be sure to post pictures if/when we get him! 

Oh she also sent a picture of one of his daughters who I LOOOOVE :love;








http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

She is a pretty thing.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh yes, his daughter is pretty!


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I love that doe. You'll get some nice hefty kids!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

He's a lovely buck, I honestly don't think you'd go wrong with any of them from the way they look in pics! Good luck! I can't wait to see who you do bring home


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## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Buy em all!!

If dont mind me asking how much are one of those bucks?


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

I wish I could have two! But we only have 10 breeding does at the moment so I can't really justify keeping two bucks right now, though we may end up having two bucks, since Sherlock hasn't sold yet. 

I am still looking and mulling and waiting. It's still between a "Red" son and "Cash", unless I find something else that I really like. Decisions...decisions...:GAAH: :whatgoat: :book:


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

As promised, I am posting to update that we bought our next herdsire (AND Sherlock is on-hold with a deposit)!

We decided to go with a "Red" son: East Heritage PTR Full-Force. The main reasons being that 1) as beautiful as Cash is, he just did not offer the color genetics/potential that Force does, 2) I like raising my bucks from "babies" for a couple of reasons (we natural-raise so I like to get them started on our program before their systems depend on the chemicals _and_ I like to set the rules from day 1, here). 

Force is a SWEETIE! He was born 1/22/15, so he's only a bit over 3 months old. We're so excited to see what he's going to do for our herd! 

SO, we brought him home last weekend and I finally got some pictures of him:





































And here's his sire: 









And his dam:








http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

He looks good


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Force looks just like one of our bucklings, Battle (born on the same day too!). What a handsome guy!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

He's gorgeous, Congrats!!! Hopefully he will give you some fun color next year!


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wow stunning! I wish we could get the goats that you guys have!


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Very nice.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very nice.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Very nice indeed....I would be all smiles. :grin:


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## Lesleykae (May 11, 2015)

I say 4


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