# Big Show = Disappointing experience.



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We recently attended NAILE for the first time. We know our goats are totally out of their class and well below the quality of the high end show Boer goats, but... we wanted to experience it at least once before my son graduates high school - experience it, see the big show goats, spend time with our close friends who were going (we show with during the summer), and of course the shopping. 

We went up Wed morning. Let me just say... it was pure chaos. No forewarning that there are no pen assignments. So that was an ordeal and stressful. 
Wethers/commercial does showed Wed and some left afterward. The market/breeding goats were all mixed up in the pen area. Workers came in overnight making for a very noisy, stressful night - and we were told Thurs that they were not supposed to come in and mess with anything. In process of trying to take down random empty pens, goats were completely stressed and freaked out (forklift, clanging, banging, etc.). By about 3:30-4am things quieted down and that's when the goats all quieted down. It was chaos.

But another huge disappointment? the goat show itself. I just couldn't watch, not just because I was exhausted and stressed out (we had to withdraw my son's best doe as she was completely stressed & scoured). 
But... because I couldn't tell what was a real goat vs. a fake one! I have never, in my life seen so many aerosol cans. It was to the point both days/all shows you couldn't breathe because of it. EVERYTHING pretty much had legs 'boned' and hair fillers, powders, adhesives. It was insane. At one point when the judge touched a doe, powder flew in the air! 
I was so disappointed. I went from admiring the goats, to looking through my camera lens at the fake looking legs, and then inspecting the goats wondering if there was a real goat in the show. 
I was happy to see a facebook friend had a doe in the lineup that had no boned legs and looked more natural! She didn't have much bone, but she made up for it in her build. There were a few others, but overall.... I just lost interest, and it made me realize, we'll never show at that level. We'll never add all that 'junk' to our goats. It really comes down to fitting, and that is sad. It's a side of showing I never have liked, but this was the most extreme thing I'd ever seen and now I understand why some people get out of showing, or complain. 

I just find it silly that being a nice goat just isn't enough...I can understand wanting to whiten a goat if they are dirty, and having the knowledge and ability to do so with assistance from a spray can. But wow... and the boning is so unnatural, spiky, stiff hair sticking straight out?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@HoosierShadow I'm a complete fan of yours (not that you'd notice!!!) and this posting illustrates why, from my point of view.

IMO, the future lies in being able to produce good productive animals under real conditions, and you singlehandedly overturn my impressions of the show world.

For goats to remain relevant, they have to be able to exist and produce outside of the show ring. Thanks for being you, and being "real".


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It doesn't matter what the animal, top shows like that bring out the big time cheaters. Sad really.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Went to the dairy part of the show - saw some things I liked and didn't like for sure. I've decided over the past year to attend a few of the smaller ADGA shows, but to put most of my effort into Linear Appraisal. I don't know if they offer anything like this with the boers - true I won't have the GCH to show due to my decided limited showing schedule, but my LA numbers were decent this year, and potential buyers can read the goat overall. Disappointing what people do - in ALL avenues of animals shows, livestock, horses, dogs, etc. just to get the win. I have never and will never do this.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

That stinks! I love showing dairy goats its so relaxed and everyone is so friendly and welcoming. Too bad it wasnt the same with boers.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

And THIS is exactly why I refuse to show! This behavior is common and expected/accepted across the board, dogs, horses, sheep etc. It's ALL about human EGO and the poor animal suffers.....


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

This is why we went to very few horse shows as well. I respect you even more @HoosierShadow its to bad you had to see it and that the goats also had such a stressful time.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m so this is why every time I think about showing I change my mind. It’s not even a goat show any more. It’s a beauty contest. Which honestly I have to hand it to them! I can’t even begin to do half the things people do but it’s not a art contest. Even the fair for the kids here is bad. It’s a terminal wether and they do all these crazy things to make them look pretty or feed them in a way that I have no idea how they even make it to market. Then there is the money part. So it’s basically a contest of who has the most money with the wethers and who can hire the best fitter on the does. And here my poor kids are that do everything them self and feed like a normal person. 
I remember years ago someone was ranting that ABGA was thinking about doing away with anything that......well basically enhances their looks. At the time I thought that was dumb. But I had it in my mind that it was a little oil on the horns and maybe some whitening shampoo. I have not been to anything like you are saying but just the dinky fair I’m like ok I really understand why they were thinking about doing away with it. In a way I want to say it’s very unhonest but at what point is it honest and dishonest? I think they should also have some kind of all natural show. Wash them and bring them In the ring. Nothing else. I know a few breeders on FB you look at pictures of their stock and they are beyond drool worthy with their pretty clipping job and this and that and that same animal with a different owner who doesn’t do anything to them it doesn’t even come close to looking like the same animal.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone - Marisarose I appreciate your comments and your friendship! 
I agree totally about it needing to be about production animals, but sadly, a lot of those top quality show goats are barn ornaments and probably never go outside and are overly pampered and definitely over fed. I wonder what the life cycle is for a lot of those top does and how often they can produce kids successfully outside of flushing. Don't even get me started on how much I dislike flushing in the big breeders...I could understand small time breeder trying to improve their herd off of their best doe, but to make it a normal occurrence with all of the decent does is crazy. I just don't know how that is acceptable in any registry... I know a lot of the top show bucks don't live past 2-3 years. But as a friend stated... those breeders probably don't care or feel the real effect anyway since they have them collected like crazy. 
I've always voiced my opinion on that stuff. But this show fluff and puff stuff I'd never seen so extreme before. I was just blown away! At some points I could barely breath without coughing because it was so thick in the air.
Unfortunately, no rule against it. Now I see why a lot of people get out of showing and complain about the hair builders, etc. 
NAILE is held at our state fairgrounds, and I want to say at the state fair, it states it's a blow and go show, no aerosol cans. I'm going to check the rules again and if it's not then I will write the fair board and encourage that it is blow and go! The wether show is supposed to be blow and go as well unless again, they deleted it from rules. 
There is nothing wrong with using good shampoos, oil on the horn or even a conditioning spray, but the other stuff...unnecessary.

Jessica - we are the same way. But I will say, at our county fairs with the breeding goats it's very laid back. But there are also not a whole lot of kids that show in the breeding classes, typically the same families with a new family in the mix. Wethers/commercial does are the biggest, and you don't see the fluff/puff so badly in the county fairs. Now the state district shows... yes, it's definitely more of a thing. State fair is crazy. We haven't shown in the state fair wether show in a couple of years now. My kids just don't like the ridiculous and crazy things that go on there - goats don't eat they get a liquid diet pretty much! I know I complained about this years ago on here, but I'll never understand how we're teaching our kids anything about a goat if it's not treated like a goat. 
I agree...ego's and $$$. Totally. You don't see the normal, every day people doing that kind of stuff, at least not that extreme. 

I'm at the point I really just want to enjoy the goats. However, my youngest daughter is only 12 and wants to continue showing, so I'm planning to sell a bunch early next year to make room & help pay for some new young stock for her to show. My son may or may not show next summer as he graduates and will want to work and pursue tech school. 

I know many areas are tougher than others. I feel we are fortunate to have really good county fairs and we can show in other counties vs. only being able to show in our own. I highly encourage all youth to get involved in 4-H/FFA and give it a chance. Showing really is a lot of fun. As a parent I am so proud of my kids for getting out there and being involved.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I've been to a couple shows, and we used to show dogs all the time when I was a kid. Thankfully when I showed recently, no one did any of that mess, it was fun, relaxed, and real. We have dairy goats. I do not agree at all with giving the appearance that your goat is better than it is. The purpose is to pick out THE best goat against the standard that we all breed to. A goat that is well structured. If you have to do all these things to make your goat appear as if it looks good, then you are cheating yourself. I refuse to do any of it. We clip and wash our goats, that's it. We don't even spray them with shine stuff because they look shiny as it is. I want to know where my girls stand as they are. Real truth, because then I can improve where I need to. If I get fake wins, it does me NO good and I'd continue to breed not the best animals. I know some judges can spot that stuff a mile away and put hands on the goats to see whats an illusion. 

Hey, it's like movie stars all with make-up galore and touched up on magazines and ppl want to be like them, but then you see a pic of their real life and think, they are just like a normal average person, you wouldn't think the same thing seeing them in the store. At least not to the extent above. 

I agree with the poster above that said they put their stock in linear appraisal. My standards are doing that this next year as I really want the info where to improve. Can't wait for minis to get that program into place. Such a valuable tool.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> It doesn't matter what the animal, top shows like that bring out the big time cheaters. Sad really.


I agree. I showed in a local 4-H club when i ws in 4 and 5 grade. we had someone who was helping us with the goats, you know giving us tips on setting the goats up etc etc. well right around show he wanted to use steirroids on my goat and y parents were totally angry! He TOUGHT us how to use them. I never used them i got a 7th place and that was my last year of showing. 
Not to mention all of the other cheaters there. This was just a county show


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> l'll never understand how we're teaching our kids anything about a goat if it's not treated like a goat.


:up:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don’t know how to quote just a section but yes on teaching the kids!!! I am constantly spending the whole drive back from what few meetings we have explaining to the kids that we will NOT be feeding a grain only diet and we will NOT be hanging them from the rafters of a barn and so on. The sad thing is though my kids and I think all kids that do show they take great pride in what they are doing! So when they come in not even close to the top half because they put health before all else it really just sucks. 
We do have a ABGA show that is fairly close to us. Usually by the time it comes I’m so disgusted with the fair we don’t go but I really want to go with the kids and just watch. If it’s not crazy, like you just explained! Maybe let them show a few the next time. I’m sure they still no matter what can’t compete with the animals there but they do enjoy and take pride in their animals and want to show them off and know just how good or bad they are. But ultimately they enjoy breeding animals. And as you said there seems to be the show world and the goat world and we live in the real goat world where they have to breed, they have to earn their keep and can’t be fed feed that comes out to $20 a day. 
But I am sorry it was such a bummer for you. But hey you can market it off your bucket list and I’m sure you saw a lot of things you can point at a picture and say “that’s not real!!!” Lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow! I hope your goat that was sick is better. It sounds like the show was a real chaotic eye opener! 

I used to show horses, dog and cattle at different times of my life. Now I remember why I got out. Horses were especially bad. (Gaited horses that they "Sored" their feet to high step.) Dogs were bad in their own way, too.

So far, ADGA goat shows have been more inline with my expectations.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Wow all these stories make me feel lucky to grow up in the show program that I did. No one is allowed to take care of the animals besides the showmen and the other showmen can help each other out UNLESS and ONLY in an emergency can any adult help. The goats are monitored closely by vets and the show officials. At our regional fair the milk is tested for steroids. Everyone is a big family and welcoming. There are very few "showing secrets or tricks" because we share everything with each other.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

This is part of the reason we can't get Golden Guernsey Goat Does here. A few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goatzrule said:


> Wow all these stories make me feel lucky to grow up in the show program that I did.


It's like everything we humans do start out with the best of intentions, but then always get hijacked and we end up having to start all over again later, abandoning what was supposed to be but turned into what is.


Jessica84 said:


> I don't know how to quote just a section


Jessica. Highlight the section (sentence, word, paragraph, whatever) you want to respond to. 2 Options should appear for you to choose from. Quote and Reply.

'Reply' will immediately put just that section in a respond box. 'Quote' will save that section and you can collect as many quotes as you want. Like I used the quote option and then put them both in this respond box by clicking "INSERT QUOTES" and then clicking "Quote these passages". Then once you have the quotes in the respond box, you can type your answers. Then you post just like normal.

Hope this is helpful.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Hard for me to imagine it being different in other areas. Maybe I was being naive but I did not see anything at adga nationals to this extent. Everyone was pretty friendly. There were a couple herds that were very competitive but no one was vicious and either stayed to themselves or was friendly. The most competitive thing was the youth competitions but mostly it was one of the judges who would only choose winners of herds that was a big name. I know that judge well and he is a good person but biased judge. Other than that everyone seemed fair. ADGA does have some pretty strict rules when it comes to cheating.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I should state this is an ABGA show not dairy, and am glad to hear this kind of stuff doesn't happen in the dairy world! But it's big in market/commercial and breeding boer goats  

I didn't take many pictures... I was exhausted, which is a shame because I wanted to get a lot of pictures to share of the whole show. 
Anyway, below is one that I did manage to get that shows leg boning vs. no boning or fluffing. This was mild compared to a lot of the 'boning' I saw. I just don't get how the style on the right is what everyone is going to. Even a mild case of boning and it looks so unnatural.
No offense to the people who own these goats, they are beautiful does...just can't imagine why they want to add all that junk to them 

My son's doe is the one in the middle. Sure she's not a perfect show goat, she just aged into that class, isn't super level or fantastic, but she's been a good show goat for my kids and has done well winning county fairs, and won a couple of ABGA shows and had recently finished 4th in our state fair ABGA show at the same facility. 
At this show, she looked terribly sunken in thanks to all of the stress - we had to pen her away from her herdmates and she stopped eating and was so freaked out and upset on top of being in heat. We had 2 pens together and 1 off at the end of an aisle. We had her in a pen next to 2 herdmates, but because she was in heat and a young buck diagonal from her was trying to tear down his 'zip tied' back of the pen to get to her, we had to move her - she is a bully and too big to put 3 does together. Had it been closed properly I wouldn't have had to move her....the buck wouldn't have gotten out...but zip tied...yeah he was going to get through.

I'm hopeful she'll continue to grow well, she just turned 9mo and is around 135-140lbs+
EDITED TO ADD: No hot water in the whole building! It was in the low 30s with wind chill in the 20s. Horrible weather to wash goats outside with cold water! No way I was doing that to our goats for a ribbon, so we just did the best we could - I did was their legs, and the kids helped me with some dry shampoo. At least in the area we normally show in at the state fair the bathrooms have hot water available, but it was clear on the other side of the building. An employee went out of her way to help get me 1 bucket of hot water so I could wash the girls legs and spot clean a little.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> My son's doe is the one in the middle.


I like how wide she is.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I love everyones comments and input, thank you all for chatting over this. Not everything is bad, but this show sure opened my eyes to the broad spectrum of showing at a national level show. 

Jessica - I agree completely. My son didn't want to show this year. He's aggravated that the trends have changed, goats need to be fat, and the primping that goes on. I don't knw if he'll show next year - his final summer in 4-H. We bought him a nice young doe that just aged into the 6-9 month class and hoping she'll be able to inspire him to show. she's the one that scoured and he wasn't able to show, so not a good start  She's super sweet, has great bone. 
I agree kids want to be proud and should be proud if they are doing everything they know how to do even if it's not making their goat a champion.
It hurts to see kids get disappointed or not get rewarded for their hard work especially when they are doing everything naturally. Been there and done that. 
Our goats get $10 bag of basic 16% feed, some alfalfa hay and clover/grass hay. I do want to put them on a better feed next year, I feel we definitely need to make that change. But that's about the extent unless an individual goat needs something specific or is struggling.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I haven't had a chance to really go through the pics I did manage to get, but here are a few from my phone - it takes lousy pics lol. 

This is my son's doe that he never got to show because she stressed so badly, AND the new goat stand my kids bought that they are proud of  Note: See the bathroom signs way over on that far wall? That's where our pens were at! It was a long haul from our stuff to the goats...

My daughter and her baby - who cares if she shows well or not, my daughter and this doe are so bonded. It was so cute at the show, if my daughter went out of her does sight, she yelled for her and on the stand she tried to turn to find her. During the show, my daughter showed her in 6-9 month class, and had one in 9-12, so when I took her goat and she ran around to get the other one from her brother, this doe dragged me, chasing after her lol. The whole time my daughter was in the ring with the other doe, I held this one, and she couldn't sit still, chewing and playing with everything. No ribbons in the world honestly could have made my heart smile more knowing how much these 2 love each other 
The only thing I wished I could have done at the show was get her clean. She'd been in heat right before the show and the paint doe jumped on her and made her a muddy mess. We just couldn't get her clean and didn't want to make her sick with a bath. I doubt we'll do winter shows like that unless I can bring them in and bathe them in the bathtub lol!!!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

My experience with dairy goat showing is definitely a lot more like Goatzrule's--not a lot of nonsense, and people seem to mostly get along. There was an incident a few years ago where all the Nubian people got huffy and rage quit the show scene for some reason (I never heard what it was), but I don't see all the ridiculous fussy stuff you see in the Boer shows. One of my good friends spent a year helping fit Boers for the big shows and it sounded just like what you describe. It seemed ridiculous to me. 

If I were a judge, I'd be absolutely fed up to see animals parading in like they'd just been at a beauty parlor! I hate the tail extensions at horse shows, and I know I would equally hate "hair extension" on goats' legs. I can understand a little white powder brushed over stubborn stains that refuse to come out, but that's about the extent of my tolerance for primping. It's a barn, and these are farm animals. A show barn shouldn't have the atmosphere of a hair salon, and goats shouldn't be gussied up like Poodles or Airedales. And if I were a judge I'd announce beforehand over the PA that I would be penalizing animals whose fitting made them appear unnatural. I'd want to see the goats' real legs with the hair brushed in its natural direction--not legs that are sprayed on from a can. Stuff like this makes a mockery of real goat breeding in my opinion, just as many of the unnatural styles and practices in Western Pleasure and Saddle Seat make a mockery of real horse training.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Its a real shame that this is what goes on at these. I don't think it hasn't got that bad here at our state fair but I've also only been to it a couple times as an observer for the actual show. But for sure nothing as extreme as what you are describing!

You're comparison pictures are unreal. What exactly is this leg boning? Fluffing out the hair? (I'm not familiar with any of this stuff.) It makes them so unnatural, like how does that look normal at all??

Also @Jessica84 , what is this hanging from the rafters you mentioned? I'm really hoping it's not what I'm thinking it is.......


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don’t know to me with the legs it makes them look like their back legs bow out. The front, I admit is beautiful and makes them look big boned but I don’t think it makes their back legs look that great. In the picture yes it looks like your sons is lacking the bone compared to the other two but at least more correct. But I think the doe you pulled out, it might be the picture but she looks like she has enough bone to put those to shame with the fluffed legs! 
Lstein honestly all I heard was hang from the rafters where their front feet can’t touch the ground and I sad oookaaayyy and walked off. I’m going to assume though that they mean use a halter and tie a rope up to the rafters. I don’t know I guess in a way it’s no different then tying a goat where they are at a slant to build muscle but the I feel better that all 4 feet are on something solid. We actually only do that where their feet have to be on a bench while they eat grain and then the stand we have the back legs collapsed so they stand at a angle while the kids brush or wash them


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I can't imagine tying an animal up in an unnatural position to try to "sculpt" muscling (or whatever the goal is). I've heard of tying western pleasure horses' heads to the rafters so that by the time they are let down, their neck muscles are so tired they hang their heads low for the class. That's a terrible thing to do to any animal. Having your goats stand on uneven ground while eating or being groomed is fine because that's not a long period of time, but leaving an animal tied in such a way that they can't move or lie down for a long time is not humane.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Damfino said:


> I can't imagine tying an animal up in an unnatural position to try to "sculpt" muscling (or whatever the goal is). I've heard of tying western pleasure horses' heads to the rafters so that by the time they are let down, their neck muscles are so tired they hang their heads low for the class. That's a terrible thing to do to any animal. Having your goats stand on uneven ground while eating or being groomed is fine because that's not a long period of time, but leaving an animal tied in such a way that they can't move or lie down for a long time is not humane.


(clap) :nod:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Man I love you folks... for me... it's those exercise chariots... I just can't fathom putting a goat on one of those and forcing them to exercise in that weird way. My goats get exercise - when they free range the farm 4 days a week they walk miles and miles and even run up the hills! 

But tell me about this "good shopping" at the show you speak of?


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## ETgoatygirl (Mar 23, 2012)

That sounds like such a difficult experience to go through. I've been to a 4-H show as a kid, and just helped a friend show her ND's at a local show last year. Both were pretty good experiences. I really want to try my hand at showing (in a few local shows only) next year, just to see if it's my cup of tea. I'm not a super competitive person (except when you get me around DHIR results, then you'd better watch out ) so I'm hoping to just learn a lot and have fun.
I feel like there can be a lot of pressure to show your animals these days, to prove their worth, and for marketing your herd name. While I do understand that, it sometimes seems as if people can lose track of everything but titles and ribbons. I think that's when things can get dangerous for a breed. I'm not saying this happens to everyone who shows at all! I'm a firm believer in improving the ND breed, and love participating in LA. I just think sometimes when you focus too much on looks, you can lose other important aspects in a breed. I have noticed that some beautiful show quality animals just don't seem to have much when it comes to milk production. I have an ND doe who just scored an 86 in LA this year, which isn't amazing, but I wouldn't trade her for the world. She made 910 pounds of milk in 167 days as a second freshener. I do feel incredibly lucky that there are still some high volume producer's in the ND breed, and also some great show quality animals. I'm always happy to find one of the rare goats that seems to have that perfect blend of structure and production, and wish there were more out there. I guess it's something I want to strive for in my herd. Sorry for the long rambling post guys!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ETgoatygirl said:


> I guess it's something I want to strive for in my herd. Sorry for the long rambling post guys!


No, I like it. And agree.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jessica - it definitely looks funny when they fluff out that leg hair. Some look better than others. When they make it look more natural, I don't mind at all, but some of those goats looked like they had spiked leg hair, it looked so weird on them and I can't imagine the adhesives used to create that look. If they are going to do it at least make it more natural. I will be the first to admit I am not great at fitting a goat. But I'm a 'blow and go' type 4-H mama. We'll use some skin conditioning spray, but that's been the extent of what we use. I don't think we'll follow trend... Our county fair shows are more laid back as I'd stated before, so it's less stressful and more fun. Wash, dry, touch up any clipping jobs, put them in a pen and visit with your friends. Brush off the shavings or check for any dirt spots and straight in the ring they go. No staying on the stand for hours being groomed.
I felt so bad for some goats, especially in the market/commercial show, they were on the stand for a LONG time  My daughter complained to me about that and I didn't know what to tell her. She also complained to me about the wether/commercial goats penned by us not having water or any food all night long and into the next day. But of course escapee goats were the same way thanks to the employees!
My kids have less interest in market, they prefer breeding. But I'm hoping my daughter will take more interest in a wether project next year and put all her effort into them so they will hopefully show better. 

SalteyLove - the chariot is definitely bizarre! I admit, we'd considered making a home made contraption that had them walk on their hind legs, but scraped that idea years ago. Instead, we used a treadmill with a place for them to put their front feet - and they would eat breakfast while walking on the treadmill. It was routine and they did great and showed fairly well that year (my son had a 4th place high weight wether at our state fair!), but after that year my kids just lost interest in wethers  My youngest is 12 and I hope to try to get her more interested.

SHOPPING - they have a large area with all sorts of shops! Much like at state fair, but a lot of agriculture - goat related items! There was a couple of supply shops there with everything for showing and supplemental care. I was thrilled to find Kaeco Selenium E Gel for goats! That is something I've never ever found locally, and always have to order, and something I needed as I give it to our pregnant does and newborns, or in between Bo-Se shots. My kids bought a new goat stand for a good price, they are putting it up to use at goat shows, and using the old stand here.
Everything from cell phone accessories, to clothes, jewelry, foods/desserts, boots, boots, more boots and hats lol Trailers (I need to win the lotto lol!), etc. 

Et goatygirl - Showing should be fun  I think the smaller shows are less stressful overall and more fun. In our state, you can show at other county fairs - most fairs are 'open' shows. So that makes it fun to go to the different counties. 
Our county has a big show with better payouts, so it attracts some good animals, but usually not a massive turnout, varies from year to year. 
The crazy thing? my kids joined 4-H in 2010 and we've never seen or known anyone that shows Dairy goats in our county. We had 1 other family show market goats for a couple of years until they moved to the city, but otherwise it's just been my kids! Last year we got our neighbors kids into goats, and they started showing their own this year  We've had to learn everything on our own. It's been a challenge, but it's been fun.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

That would drive me crazy having all that machinery etc. going on. That's fairs though. It's like you're in prison. The regular ABGA shows you can expect more relaxed surroundings. We go to one fair a year and it's 30 minutes from our house. Hoosier, your goats are looking good. We went to four shows this year. We enjoy them. I don't care about all the products and stuff people use. I both fit my own and have talented kids clip my better goats. I dislike the glue on the legs. I think it looks dumb and I hate the dirt and shavings sticking to the goat's legs. I don't think the "boning" is fooling the judges any. I predict the it will fade away. I found the picture of the grand champion doe from NAILE that Hoosier went to. I think she's a beautiful doe. I don't see where the champion was altered in any unfair way. The second picture will be my doe who we won grand champion with at our state fair. Her legs were not touched. Coincidentily, my doe and the NAILE doe have the same sire.


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## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

I agree, the boning does look weird. I show in MGR show and they do not allow any funny stuff. We don't primp or fluff anything. I shave my goats and that's it. My only issue with our shows is that people have the goats super fat, I don't do horrible at the shows, but I do know some of the breeders feed straight corn... Not my style. I prefer minimal grain and hay.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Tim your doe is gorgeous! Neat that she is related to the NAILE winner. We see a lot of Paul's goats or goats that he's bred as he only lives a few hours from us at most. They are very nice, but well fitted. No boning, thank goodness that I can recall! Nice people. 

I don't think we'll attend big shows like NAILE again, unless better weather is forecast, and improvements are made. I'd have to turn a blind eye to the primping, goats being kept on the stand for hours, aerosol cans, etc. I'm just not into that.
I honestly think sometimes... what really makes these goats special or valuable or worthy of being a show winner? I mean... I'm used to horse racing, and it's obvious why horses are valuable or worthy...
But I look at a lot of the goats, and I wonder, how many will carry their own kids successfully without complications? How many will live to be older does or bucks? Will their value be based on barn kept conditions, fitting and flushing (AI for bucks)? I used to really want to get into it, but now I just want to sit back, and enjoy what we have, not fuss with all of that other stuff, and slowly improve on the things I feel we need and just be happy with what we have and not dwell on what we don't have. Sorry to ramble! I really try not to be so opinionated, and I want to enjoy it. I've just seen things the past couple of years that it was getting to me - frustrating and now I understand what a lot of people that complain or no longer show were talking about. 
I wish they didn't encourage all of that extra stuff... let the goat be a goat.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

We have not experienced anything like this in showing dairy goats. We started 8 years ago when my daughter was 6. And everyone has always been real friendly and helpful.
I would also like to say that we have never gone overboard with our goats. They mostly get Bermuda hay with some alfalfa pellets.
You can also breed animals that do well in the show ring while being good, hardy, family milkers.
My best doe Zamia has never been wormed with anything other than safeguard and produced more milk this year as an 8 year old as she ever has.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> We have not experienced anything like this in showing dairy goats. We started 8 years ago when my daughter was 6. And everyone has always been real friendly and helpful.
> I would also like to say that we have never gone overboard with our goats. They mostly get Bermuda hay with some alfalfa pellets.
> You can also breed animals that do well in the show ring while being good, hardy, family milkers.
> My best doe Zamia has never been wormed with anything other than safeguard and produced more milk this year as an 8 year old as she ever has.


I'm glad to hear it. Most shows are really fun, I've always met wonderful people at the shows and enjoy talking to them. Once in a while you'll meet people that think they are above all (met someone like that at this show and was like wow...lol), but I've not had a bad experience with other exhibitors. I know for many it's a business and reputation. I'm just a 4-H Mom that wants to do the best with what we have and try to encourage kids to get involved 
I like that the dairy goats are more laid back and the idea they are shaved - nothing to fluff, the goat is seen as the goat is.

They want the breeding boer goats to be conditioned to a point it can really be unhealthy.
We only attend 1 maybe 2 ABGA shows a year and they are fun. Some of the best come to one of the shows nearby, and it's a good show. Our state fair show is fun, and I think they are working on making it even better. Sadly, my kids don't want to attend the state fair market show anymore... 
County fairs are a lot of fun, laid back, easy going, no goats being overly fitted and aerosol cans are definitely more sporadic. 
The only thing we typically put on ours is a show sheen, or some sort of conditioner. My biggest fuss is stains, but either the stain removers work or they don't. I don't care for baby powder, especially when a judge touches them and you see a cloud of white dust fly off of them lol.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

This is a great thread! I didn’t get to read all the comments but these are things I’ve been thinking about as well as we build and set a goal for our small farm. What is our end goal? It’s becoming more and more about breeding meat goats for replacement stock and for the table. The show industry is becoming less appealing to me, for some of the reasons I read above. But while I have two H.S. aged kids we’ll continue to hit a few close shows for the fun of it.

Has anyone heard of the nationwide Midwest Buck Sale that’s going on in Missouri? It’s for meat goat breeders. It sounds like it will be a fun and informative time. 

Interestingly, there are rules concerning fitting the goats so that we see the real deal. And there will also be a fitting class for just does I think, that will allow all the beauty treatments. But that is just a class for a “fitting” competition; kind of a beauty pageant.


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