# 4-H people I have questions Mini goat breeders too



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

As most of you know I recently purchased 2 mini nubian doelings. Now, they're not registered which doesn't bother me as I bought them for dairy.( My husband has lots of food allergies and goat's milk really helps him.) Anyway my oldest son is almost 8 and is very interested in showing goats in 4-H when he turns 9. My questions are #1 can you show unregistered/ mixed breed goats in dairy classes? Or should I buy a purebred, reg. Nubian for him his 1st 4-H year? Also I was doing some research with the MDGA and from what I understand all mini goats (except Nigerians) Manchas, Nubians, etc are still considered "experimental" and could possibly registered as long as the sire (not sure of terms) was registered even if the dam wasn't (again terms) Does that mean if I could find a good quality Mini Nubian stud (lol horse terms again) and bred to my does that the offspring could potentially be registered even though my girls aren't? :whatgoat: Sorry for all the questions! If they can be shown in 4-H I will go ahead and have them disbudded...I've been debating this too lmao


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ive been looking into raising mini Saanen...from what I have learned they are experimental until the third generation then considered pure bred Mini Saanen. Im sure it must be the same for all breeds of mini...? The Nigerian stud must be registered....
I would be concerned breeding a standard buck to a mini breed..even if she is 50% nubian....babies could be large...
as for 4H info..sorry I'm a bust there lol


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm hoping to find a mini Nubian stud. One of my girls looks very Nubian and the other has very goofy floppy airplane ears lol! If I bred them back to a Nigerian then most of their Nubian traits would be lost right? So I'd have to find a registered Mini Nubian stud to possibly register the offspring. I really like Nubians but don't think I could use the amount of milk a full size produces so minis seem perfect. I just want to make sure the babies are marketable I guess and I assume as with horses registered stock is much more desirable.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes...you will need to breed a generation one with a generation one to get a generation 2 and so forth...my plans are to only breed generation one kids for generation two those who have the strongest saanen characteristics and sell the others as pets...when looking for a stud shop around for one with the strongest Nubian traits to create a more true Nubian
yes ..registered is prefered


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

these sights has some good info ..there are several associations...I havent decided which on is best yet..lol..just started looking into it..I hope the info helps you

http://miniaturedairygoats.com/

http://www.nmga.net/breedstandard.htm


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's variable. Just call your extention service to find out. Our fair did not require anything exept a kid and a goat or 10.


----------



## llazykllamas (Dec 20, 2012)

Call your extension office and ask for the name and # of the goat superintendent. Rules vary from state to state and even county to county AND show to show. Ex. Racine County WI: the child must be 10 by Jan 1 to show any large animals (goats, sheep, pigs, dairy, beef, horses, llamas). The goat does not have to be registered for junior fair, but must be for open class. WI state fair: same age requirements, but dairy animals must be registered, Boers do not need to be registered - for junior fair entries - I don't know about open class. We also frequently attend a multi-county 4-H show in a nearby county - there there is no age requirements, nor is there any registrations required for any animal.


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

happybleats said:


> yes...you will need to breed a generation one with a generation one to get a generation 2 and so forth...my plans are to only breed generation one kids for generation two those who have the strongest saanen characteristics and sell the others as pets...when looking for a stud shop around for one with the strongest Nubian traits to create a more true Nubian
> yes ..registered is prefered


Thanks Happybleats you're always very helpful  So I need to look for a 1st generation buck then? This is all so confusing lol! I'm not sure anyone in my area has a mini nubian at stud...maybe I could find someone selling a first generation cross with registered parents. Then I could breed him to my girls and have experimental registration on the babies with very strong breed characteristics and sell the others as pets too. I'm really not looking to be a goat breeder! Just want good show goats for my boys, and to have kids that are easy to sell.  I guess I just need to do more research! I'll check out those sites you gave me.


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

llazykllamas said:


> Call your extension office and ask for the name and # of the goat superintendent. Rules vary from state to state and even county to county AND show to show. Ex. Racine County WI: the child must be 10 by Jan 1 to show any large animals (goats, sheep, pigs, dairy, beef, horses, llamas). The goat does not have to be registered for junior fair, but must be for open class. WI state fair: same age requirements, but dairy animals must be registered, Boers do not need to be registered - for junior fair entries - I don't know about open class. We also frequently attend a multi-county 4-H show in a nearby county - there there is no age requirements, nor is there any registrations required for any animal.


Thank you! I will call the extension office and see if I can get the number. I figured it would vary from county to county as I know horse rules do here. I just assumed because it's 4-H and not breed shows that they wouldn't be as strict on purebred registered stock. I wonder if there is an age requirement also?


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Ok, they can be shown but only in certain classes. That's ok with us  If they really love it and want to show in all the classes we can always purchase another goat. They have their appointment to be disbudded on Saturday. The vet does sedate them before the procedure which made my husband very happy lol. He's also happy we just drop them off and don't have to hear them crying! I can't believe these girls have made him so soft


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I can't help at all about the breeding but it sounds like you have some good advice here.

 As for 4H yes call your extension agent, ask if you can have a number to someone in the Dairy goat project and talk to them. All counties much less states are so different no one will really be able to give you a correct accurate answer.

 What we did when we were looking into getting into 4H years ago, we went to the county fair and talked them. Talk to the kids; get all your answer taken care of. That is the best way to really get the correct answers, and those 4H kids are more than willing to talk about their projects. That is how we decided to get into Cashmere goats.


----------



## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I raise mini and purebred Toggs. The registry I use does not consider minis purebred until the sixth generation. It's The Miniature Goat Registry. First generation registry requires a service memo from the owner of the registered Nigerian buck. I believe they also have some sort of wiggle room for "on appearance" registration for those who don't have paperwork on parents, but I'm not sure.
I led 4H dairy goat clubs for 7 years. I never heard of a 4H show that required registration. Our fair shows put breed against breed in the same ring, but that was mostly due to the fact that we didn't have enough entries to make breed classes. The point is for kids to get to show. I've heard of other large 4H Expos that did have breed classes.


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

elchivito said:


> I raise mini and purebred Toggs. The registry I use does not consider minis purebred until the sixth generation. It's The Miniature Goat Registry. First generation registry requires a service memo from the owner of the registered Nigerian buck. I believe they also have some sort of wiggle room for "on appearance" registration for those who don't have paperwork on parents, but I'm not sure.
> I led 4H dairy goat clubs for 7 years. I never heard of a 4H show that required registration. Our fair shows put breed against breed in the same ring, but that was mostly due to the fact that we didn't have enough entries to make breed classes. The point is for kids to get to show. I've heard of other large 4H Expos that did have breed classes.


Wow 6th generation that's a lot lol. Thanks for all that info super helpful. I'm finding it very difficult to find a mini nubian buck at all in my area...I guess I have 6+ more months to find one but if I can't I guess I just breed them to a nigerian? A full sized Nubian will be too big right?


----------



## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

You can only show unregistered goats for one year because they are considered meat goats and are expected to be dead by the next year. The same thing happened to my sisters two nigerian dwarf because of the samething.


----------



## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Esther88 said:


> Wow 6th generation that's a lot lol. Thanks for all that info super helpful. I'm finding it very difficult to find a mini nubian buck at all in my area...I guess I have 6+ more months to find one but if I can't I guess I just breed them to a nigerian? A full sized Nubian will be too big right?


You should be able to find a registered Nigerian buck to breed them to. Mini Nubians on the other hand are not nearly as common. Don't breed them to a full sized Nubian buck. 
Keep in mind that your babies from this breeding will be considered F1, or first generation, same as their dams. Any time you breed back, you lose a step. Not a big deal and some breeders do it on purpose to reduce size.


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

goatygirl said:


> You can only show unregistered goats for one year because they are considered meat goats and are expected to be dead by the next year. The same thing happened to my sisters two nigerian dwarf because of the samething.


Aw that would really stink! I don't see that in the Fair premiums in Pima county so I'm hoping that's not the case  If that was the case we'd just buy a registered Nubian for them I guess.


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

elchivito said:


> You should be able to find a registered Nigerian buck to breed them to. Mini Nubians on the other hand are not nearly as common. Don't breed them to a full sized Nubian buck.
> Keep in mind that your babies from this breeding will be considered F1, or first generation, same as their dams. Any time you breed back, you lose a step. Not a big deal and some breeders do it on purpose to reduce size.


Yes, there are lots of registered Nigerians in my area. My husband and I are just partial to the Nubians, we really enjoy their calm demeanor I figured I wouldn't be able to breed them to a full sized Nubian though. I guess I will just keep an eye out. Thanks for all the info!


----------



## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I just noticed you're in AZ. So am I. There is a farm in Gilbert that raises mini-noobs. I have seen their stock at The Miniature Goat Club's Cottonwood Memorial Day show. Might not be too far a drive if they'll breed a buck out. Many won't these days due to health issues. Nice people, give them a call.

http://millersfairywood.blogspot.com/


----------



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

elchivito said:


> I just noticed you're in AZ. So am I. There is a farm in Gilbert that raises mini-noobs. I have seen their stock at The Miniature Goat Club's Cottonwood Memorial Day show. Might not be too far a drive if they'll breed a buck out. Many won't these days due to health issues. Nice people, give them a call.
> 
> http://millersfairywood.blogspot.com/


Hooray! I will contact them  Maybe if nothing else they'd be willing to sell me a buckling? Gilbert isn't too far from me, little less than two hours.


----------

