# Crossroads Waiting Room :)



## Crossroads Boers

It's not too early to start a waiting thread, is it??  

We have 3 does due early December. Just 6 more weeks! All 3 are bred to our ennobled buck RNSH Mr. Rich. I'm excited to finally get some kids out of him! 

We had 4 solid reds, 2 traditionals and 1 paint from these 3 last kidding...  And the daddy was a paint.... We'll probably get all paints with Rich then!! (hoping)  He's traditional. 

I'm guessing Cosmo has 3+, Poli has 3 and Star has 2-3. 

Cosmo: 12/8
Poli (paint with socks): 12/11
Star (dapple): 12/11 

Last pic is Poli and her 7 month old daughter.


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## ksalvagno

Good luck with kidding! Can't wait to see pics of the kids!


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## nchen7

excited for kid pictures!!!!


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## nancy d

Like father like son, Darlin has a couple due the same time, a mother daughter team.
We can have a contest on who has the purdiest babies.


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## toth boer goats

Looking good.


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## milk and honey

Wooa! Those are some BiG mommas....and still 6 weeks to go ???!!!


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## Scottyhorse

Oh my, they already look ready to give birth at any time!


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## nancy d

They all look so wonderful! Poli is sure a big tank.


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## Texaslass

They are all beautiful; I'm sure they will have beautiful babies too.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks.  I'm excited! 

They are super uncomfortable already too... Yep... a long 6 weeks to go. Poor girls! 

I hope Poli gives us two does this time.


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## Scottyhorse

Quick question, how do you get their horns to look so nice? When we got my Boer doe, her horns were dry and really terrible looking. There were 'layers' missing, cracked, etc. Now that she is here, they are getting better. I am assuming lack of minerals/proper feed?


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## fiberchick04

Scottyhorse said:


> Quick question, how do you get their horns to look so nice? When we got my Boer doe, her horns were dry and really terrible looking. There were 'layers' missing, cracked, etc. Now that she is here, they are getting better. I am assuming lack of minerals/proper feed?


Definitely a mineral deficiency. Are you in a selenium deficient area?

Also what you can do is put a little bit of mineral oil in their horns periodically.


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## Crossroads Boers

It could also be her age and growing stage. All of our goats' horns did that when they were young (3-5 months?). Some more than others. Your doe is older than that though right?

Before shows when their horns were peeling off a little, we would take a piece of sandpaper and rub it on the rough spots. Then we'd put vegetable oil on the horns and they would improve greatly and look tons better!


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## toth boer goats

When horns are doing that, the goat is growing. This is normal. 
Sanding them is good and I put mineral oil on them. 
You don't need to do it, but, if you are wanting to show ect. that is what you do to make them look better.


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## TrinityRanch

Very pregnant, but beautiful as ever!! Can't wait to see what they bring you


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## Scottyhorse

Thanks guys! Sorry to hijack the thread. Yeah, she's 9 months old now. I will try the mineral oil. I don't know if we are selenium deficient in this area or not..


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## nancy d

Sydney we are selenium def up here & feed good loose minerals but they still get peeling horns while they are growing.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Katelyn.  

Here's a cute pic of Poli I missed... they love all the fallen leaves this time of year!


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## Tenacross

I call them "goat potato chips". I swear they gain a little weight on them when they start falling.


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## Crossroads Boers

Ha! That's perfect! ^


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## bayouboergoats

Oh my goodness! They are all soo big already! I am getting so excited for all the new babies! Goodluck!


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Amber!


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## Crossroads Boers

Happy November! What a gorgeous day! 

Here are some pics from today...  

I'm a little worried about Poli. She is REALLY uncomfortable and eats very little anymore. She almost never lies down, and when she does she moans so loud I can hear her from half way across the field! She still eats/drinks but not nearly as much as the others. I check on her every hour or two, so am keeping a close eye to see if she worsens. She's been acting this way for several days now. I've never had a doe get Pregnancy Toxemia, but I'm hoping that's not what this is. Today she didn't follow the others out into the pasture very far, and turned around and walked back to the barn by herself. She just stood in the barn with a really tired look on her face. She closed her eyes several times. I never saw her lay down even when all the others did...  

Cosmo has 39 days to go and Poli and Star have 41. Pictured is first Cosmo, then Star and then Poli.


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## Jessica84

I would be tempted to treat her for it any ways. I have only had preg. Tox. Once and let me just warn you they go down hill fast. After I lost my doe anyone bred that's even a little off gets treated. 
They all look great though and can't wait to see some kids


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## Crossroads Boers

Yeah, I'll definitely look into treating her. If she's still like this by Monday I'll probably call the vet. I'd hate for anything to happen to this doe or her babies! We haven't changed her grain amounts at all... and breath doesn't smell sweet. So I am hoping this isn't PT. 

We had a sheep with PT a LONG time ago... we lost her and her unborn lambs. It was in the days before Boers, so maybe 8 years ago? I can remember that smell her breath had though, and I remember treating her with Propylene Glycol.


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## Crossroads Boers

She just ate all her grain and a good amount of alfalfa. She drank lots of water too. BUT... she's is teetering when she walks and it looks like she's going to tip over.... why could that be? I don't know what to do. I just gave her a dose of Karo/molasses, but if she doesn't have PT, I'm worried I'll induce it!


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## ksalvagno

She is quite large. Maybe the babies are pressing on nerves.


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## Scottyhorse

A little Karo Syrup/Molasses/Coffee wouldn't hurt her just in case. I had a doe with possible PT, it was really scary, they do go down fast, luckily I treated her as soon as I saw it and she was fine, but it really scared me


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## Scottyhorse

Cosmo is gigantic BTW!!


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## Jessica84

Mine didn't have that smell till she got really bad. I know I had a few that were just a tad off so I did a few treatment and were back to normal. She's just awful dang big and I bet she either has a herd of kids or big ones in there  poor girl makes my back hurt just looking at her lol


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## 8566

Just checked in to see how my Poli girl is doing :-(.
You must be worried sick.

Only thing I would add that couldn't hurt is large amounts of VitB. I'd treat her with 5-6 cc and if possible 2x/day for a few days. SQ if possible but if she's tired of getting poked - orally.

Once our weather actually turns into winter - I'll have more time for the chat rooms. But boy do I have a messy house too.

Hope it's a nerve and those babies move so she can sleep some.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Elizabeth... I definitely try the vit B as well. 

I'm hoping she's just super uncomfortable... and maybe the babies are laying funny. But I'm still very worried! I'll give an update tomorrow! I felt for her kids several times, and there must be a whole herd in there. It's hilarious! Poor Poli!


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## Tenacross

I would give your doe like 50cc of propylene glycol and 50cc of MFO orally at least once a day until she kids. If she gets any worse, do the same twice a day. Call Leslie.

http://www.jefferspet.com/propylene-glycol/camid/liv/cp/FQ-A6/

http://www.jefferspet.com/mfo-solution/camid/LIV/cp/A2-C5/


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## Crossroads Boers

Leslie has enough of her own to deal with right now. I don't want to burden her with my problem. I'll try Becki or Pat. 

After reading this from Fiasco Farms, I don't know if Proplene Glycol is best yet. Poli is still on feed. I saw an increase in her feed intake this afternoon if anything. 

Propylene Glycol: Propylene Glycol is an appetite suppressant and it inhibits rumen bacteria, so do not use unless the doe is off her feed.
o	3-4 oz (90-120ml) 2 times a day, for 2 days, and then 1-2 oz (30ml-60ml) 2 times daily until the doe is eating normally.
or 10 - 20ml every 2 hours
o	Personal Note: Ever since my scientist father pointed out that Propylene Glycol is extremely similar in composition to Anti-Freeze, I tend to avoid it if at all possible. I still with other, less harmful sugars.


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## Scottyhorse

When my doe was acting weird and still had a while left, I read the same thing on Fiasco Farm, so I decided to make a mix of Coffee, Karo Syrup, and Molasses. Did that treatment a few times a day for 2-3 days and she perked up. Not sure if she had PT or not, but it sure seemed to help.


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## Crossroads Boers

I gave her some of that at 6 tonight. I'll give her more in the morning.  

I just checked on her and she won't stop grinding her teeth.  Poor girl seems so uncomfortable.


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## Scottyhorse

Aww poor thing. Hopefully the mix will help give her a boost  It helped my doe


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## Tenacross

Crossroads Boers said:


> Leslie has enough of her own to deal with right now. I don't want to burden her with my problem. I'll try Becki or Pat.
> 
> After reading this from Fiasco Farms, I don't know if Proplene Glycol is best yet. Poli is still on feed. I saw an increase in her feed intake this afternoon if anything.
> 
> Propylene Glycol: Propylene Glycol is an appetite suppressant and it inhibits rumen bacteria, so do not use unless the doe is off her feed.
> o	3-4 oz (90-120ml) 2 times a day, for 2 days, and then 1-2 oz (30ml-60ml) 2 times daily until the doe is eating normally.
> or 10 - 20ml every 2 hours
> o	Personal Note: Ever since my scientist father pointed out that Propylene Glycol is extremely similar in composition to Anti-Freeze, I tend to avoid it if at all possible. I still with other, less harmful sugars.


I didn't want to use it at first either. I can tell you this. It's not an appetite suppressant. It will flat get them to eat. Nutri Drench is mostly propylene glycol. The MFO is CMPK, calcium. MFO stands for milk fever oral. This is the cure I got from Cary Heyward DVM. Leslie believes too. The MFO is my preference. The others use CMPK. If your doe is doing OK, then don't mess with her, but if she isn't eating well, slowing down, showing the signs, I would treat.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

1 part corn oil (don't substitute)
1 part molasses
1 part Karo syrup (the light one)

Add enough Dextrose or water to make it easy to drench. Give does 4-6 ounces every 8 hours. It's good for ketotic does, anemic goats, or sick goats needing a pick-me-up.
Keep it in the fridge, shake before each use.

I would advise you get some Ketone strips and test them. If it is ketosis, it has to be treated early enough and aggressively. Get her checked out, you don't want to wait too long. 

Add some whole corn to her feed to up her sugar , and keep her hydrated. If they are carrying twins they require 180% more energy, if they are carrying need 240% more energy, and so on.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Tim and Lacie. I contacted a friend who has been doing this a lot longer than I have... and she gave me a lot of info on what to do. First thing is to get Ketone strips and see where she's at. 

Since I'm getting a lot of different suggestions on what to use, I am going to stick with the info my friend gave me to treat Poli. It's mostly a mixture of what you all said already! 

Thanks for the help!


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## Scottyhorse

Sounds good. Let us know what the ketone strips say.


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## nancy d

With all that's been suggested go with your guts.


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## Crossroads Boers

Okay so we made a trip into "town" (Nearest farm store, and other essential stores are 45 minutes away....) and got everything we needed. She is definitely going down hill fast....when she "tries" to walk she nearly falls over with every step. 

Her temp. is 104.6. We gave her 10 oz. of Calcium Gluconate, 5 oz. Propylene Glycol, 6ml. Vit B complex, and are still waiting for her to pee so we can use the test strip. 

Is there anything else you think we should do? 
Thanks so much for your help everyone!

Update: I waited out there for 2 hours for her to pee and she never did. So I'll try again later. She can barely stand let alone walk, so it will be hard for her.


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## nancy d

Could it be onset of polio or listerosis? Do you have Thiamine?
Prayers for you & her.


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## Crossroads Boers

Nope... ^


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## toth boer goats

Oh no, just seen what is going on, I am sorry she is ill, praying she will get better soon. 

Not peeing, is she dehydrated? skin test her.

Her temp concerns me, she may have pneumonia or infection starting. Does she smell OK in the vulva area?


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## Crossroads Boers

Her temp is now 105.3.... I'm going to try to call the vet.


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## christinajh

I hope you are able to get the vet to check her out. Best of luck with her


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## nancy d

banamine & ice pack right behind ears


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## Crossroads Boers

We don't have any banamine...I am so worried. All of the vets are closed and we can't get in touch with any. 

What do we treat her with if this is pneumonia?


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## Texaslass

So sorry!  I hope she makes it through for you, she's a beautiful doe. ray:


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## Tenacross

Crossroads Boers said:


> Okay so we made a trip into "town" (Nearest farm store, and other essential stores are 45 minutes away....) and got everything we needed. She is definitely going down hill fast....when she "tries" to walk she nearly falls over with every step.
> Her temp. is 104.6. We gave her 10 oz. of Calcium Gluconate, 5 oz. Propylene Glycol, 6ml. Vit B complex, and are still waiting for her to pee so we can use the test strip. Is there anything else you think we should do?
> Thanks so much for your help everyone!
> Update: I waited out there for 2 hours for her to pee and she never did. So I'll try again later. She can barely stand let alone walk, so it will be hard for her.


I'd give her some banamine. Like 2cc IM. Just to get her feeling a little better by dropping the temp. The temp would make you think infection. Has anyone mentioned antibiotics to you yet? Sometimes we get tricked and treat for one thing when it's really another. Your doses on the PG and Cal seem a little high. Not sure if those are numbers over several treatments or not. I would back off that a little and do more drenching with warm electrolytes/water and consider antibiotics. Nuflor? It's time for a vet, but you know that.

If you do go to a vet, see if he/she can put an IV in that you can give IV fluids. That *will* make her pee and if her kidneys are involved in this mess, it might save her life as it flushes the kidneys.


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## ksalvagno

See if someone around you has banamine.


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## toth boer goats

I have given preggo's Nuflor, it is a broad spectrum drug.

Does she smell in the vulva area?

Penicillin is safe for preggo's

Draxxin, is safe for preggo'sbut I never used it.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/draxxin-nuflor-126419/

Banamine will help bring down temp.

When you call the vets number, do you have a person answering the phone saying exchange or have an emergency number they refer you too? whether it be on the answering machine or on a website ect?
We have an exchange person, that answers the phone. You say you have an emergency and they call the vet and the vet will call you back.
Do you have anything like that?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Did you find out if she is ketotic? It sounds like she is, and that can be life threatening


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## littlegoatgirl

So worried for you!  hope everything's okay!


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## toth boer goats

Any news?


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## Crossroads Boers

Okay made several phone calls and was able to pick up Banamine, Nuflor and Thiamine from a friend. Poli has those in her now. Her temp is holding at 105.3 so I am relieved we caught it before her temp started dropping... My friend just lost a doe exhibiting Poli's symptoms and said once the temp starts dropping, you can't stop it and they are then at deaths door.


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## Crossroads Boers

We have been drenching her with electrolytes to hydrate her... but still no pee for the test strips.  She can't even stand on her own now, but we have been lifting her for the shots and to make sure her lungs don't fill. No she doesn't smell under her tail.


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## bayouboergoats

Oh my goodness Victoria! I am just reading all of this catching up...i an soo soo sorry! I have no advice to give as i personally have never dealt with it. I have always been givin the recipes and other procedures everyone else gave already. All i can do is send strong prayers your way for a very fast a quick recovery for one of our(pretty sure everyone on goatspot's) favorite girl!!! I sure hope she pulls thru and holds out to deliver those healthy babies when its time.


How much grain is she getting daily? Do you think she is eating to much? 
I hate when something like this happens and it always has to happen to your favorite fullblood!


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## Jessica84

Ohh no  IMO get a vets butt out there!!! Do you have a tube to tube fluid into her??? It is so hard to drench enough. Also when you get her up try and make her walk around. If you can find someone with ringers get some if they or you can do a iv that's great but if need be do sq shots. They get dehydrated so dang fast. I'm so sorry


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## Scottyhorse

So sorry Victoria!! The others have given great advice and I will pray for her!!


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## nancy d

Jessica they tried getting hold of vet.


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## Crossroads Boers

Yep, she's a favorite for many reasons. Mostly because she is the momma to the best 2 kids we've ever produced! 

Poli and the other does have been getting 1 1/2 lbs of grain a day for a month. We haven't changed the amount. 

I have never had anything like this either... well never had. She has gone down so fast! I'm just thankful I have so many friends who were anxious to help. I am hopeful now with these other injections in her. 

No Jessica I don't have a tube. When we get her up it's all we can do to hold her and her big prego belly up! There's no way to make her walk. Yet at least. I'm hoping for improvement! 

Please keep praying... I'd really hate to lose this doe.  :tear::sigh::tears:


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## bayouboergoats

When she does get up is she acting like she is walking on hot coals? I remember a friend saying that if they are doing that that means ketosis or toxemia Not sure why i even typed that i just want to help but feel lost and reallyyy far away! I think i am going to cry with you.


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## Jessica84

nancy d said:


> Jessica they tried getting hold of vet.


Opps sorry. Are you treating her for prey. Tox as well?? I remembered my does front feet were so swelled. I was border line.....what ever its called in humans but the same as preg. Tox. For goats and I didn't pee that much either. I was also told to lay on my left side to get pressure off kidneys.....anyone think that's the same for a goat??? I would give it a shot and I did do the same for my doe......just don't know if it did any good. If you go to the hardware store you can get a tube I think its 1/4 inch.....but sounds like your the same as me and out in the boondox. I really don't know what else to say other then your going great and keep it up. I'll keep thinking and pray


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## Crossroads Boers

As of right now she appears to be a bit more bright and not quite as dull. Still VERY weak though. Temp is down to 102.8!!!!!  Hopefully she is finally starting to improve a little.  

Thanks Amber... When we are able to lift her up enough to sort of stand the last thing in her mind is taking a step. It takes all her energy and ours just to get her to a standing position! Yesterday when she was walking she wasn't walking like she was in pain...she just looked really weak and was tipping to the side as if she was going to fall over. I think at this point it is not Preg. Tox. as that would not cause her to have a high fever. But now that she isn't hardly eating it could bring on Preg. Tox. so we will continue to treat her with propylene Glycol just in case. 

Jessica: Thanks for you prayers and thoughts!  Yes we will still treat her for preg tox. just in case. Nothing is swollen... She has been laying on her right side all day and when she does stand up she automatically goes back down on her right side. I think that is most comfortable for her.

Thanks so much everyone for your prayers, thoughts, and suggestions!! They are greatly appreciated!


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## Tenacross

The banamine almost always drops their temp. Which is what you wanted, but keep in mind the banamine isn't curing her. The Nuflor and other things might though. I've been in a similar spot a couple of times and even if you don't know for sure what the deal is right now, if you can keep them going with supportive therapy, hopefully you will get it figured out.

If whatever it is that is giving her the fever is responsive to the Nuflor, you should see a difference within 36 hours. Probably more like 24 hours. The temperature will tell the tale if the Nuflor is working. Don't give more banamine until temp goes up again. And remember, when the banamine is working, you don't have a true temp. *If* your vet is sure it's infection of some kind, but she's not getting better on the Nuflor, have the vet come up with another antibiotic.

If she won't eat on her own, I've made soupy mush out of Noble Goat and drenched it. Alternate the soupy mush and the electrolytes. I believe I have kept goats from dying doing this while waiting on the vet cure, which did come.


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## Crossroads Boers

Okay thanks Tim. She is definitly seeming to feel better. She is very bright now and keeps trying to get up. She still can't even get her legs under her, but I'm happy she's trying. 

I also gave Penicillin. I've been talking with Becki and she said to hit her hard with both Pen and Nuflor. 

She is eating hay pretty good, and a tiny bit of grain. We may try drenching grain too though. Hadn't thought of that! 

Every time we try to pick her up I feel her babies kicking every place I put my hands. It makes my smile and want to cry at the same time... I'm glad they are okay for now.


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## NubianFan

How far along is she? You have my prayers as well. I don't have any advice to give but sounds like you are in good hands with the advice given already. I do wish you could get a vet to respond.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks.  She has 5 weeks to go on Wednesday.


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## 8566

Oh My Golly - This girl has got tons of prayers coming her way.

Sounds like you are looking at things with thought, have a good support group near you, and working all angles. I would only say to keep with the VitB for at least 3 days. VitB complex will have what you need for polio = which can come on when the rumen slows/stops.

If she is not getting up a lot - I don't know - but maybe stop grain and just feed hay? I feel the grain will sit there and sour. 

Most of all - like it's been said - go with your gut.

Hope it's a warm night tonight - get the feeling if your not sleeping with her tonight your going to be out there a lot.

Huggs and Prayers.


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Elizabeth. I doubt I'll sleep anyway, so might as well stay in the barn! We will definitely continue with the Vit B.... She's not getting up at all. She seems to be able to put some weight on her front legs when we lift her (which is REALLY difficult!) but can't put any weight on the back legs. She hasn't *gone* at all today. We've been drenching her a lot.. so she has to go eventually!? 

It's freezing out here...  But we've got lots of warm clothes and jackets on. We had a guy from CA come get a goat this evening and it was pouring down rain. Poor guy.  All we could say was "Welcome to Washington!".


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

:doh: For some reason I thought you were waaaay on the other side of the U.S! But Washington is way closer to me....  I love Cosmo's size, I want a doeling from her someday! 

I'm glad she's doing a bit better, lots of prayers coming her way!


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Lacie! I had a whole bunch of goats go to CA this year... I bet some went close to where you are.  

This will be our last kidding with Cosmo. She'll be going back to her breeder in the spring.... unless we don't get any doelings to keep.  She's a great doe and one I don't really want to part with. She has given us 7 beautiful kids so far and soon to be 10 or 11. Dazzle our black spotted doeling is out of one of Cosmo's daughters.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well, that burst my bubble! :lol: Oh well, you'll have more just like her soon enough! I do love Dazzles build too...hmmm onder:


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## 8566

Hmmm - headed to bed but this whole thing about her not peeing and you giving her lots of fluid has me wondering.

urinary calculi (stones in the bladder) - could explain the pain and maybe fever too? Not so sure about the fever part but ..... By no means do I mean this is the only thing going on but no peeing means kidney/bladder issues right? I'm just trying to draw the picture ....

I know you need her to pee on the strip but maybe trying to catch some in a cup (as sterile as possible) so the vet can look at the urine? Just in case?

Huggs


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## Scottyhorse

Hey Victoria, we used to live near Centralia. Why don't you contact Cascade West? They are GREAT GREAT vets, in expensive, and have someone on call 24 hours a day. My mom, a nurse, is also concerned about the fact she hasn't urinated all day.


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## Tenacross

Crossroads Boers said:


> Okay thanks Tim. She is definitly seeming to feel better. She is very bright now and keeps trying to get up. She still can't even get her legs under her, but I'm happy she's trying.
> I also gave Penicillin. I've been talking with Becki and she said to hit her hard with both Pen and Nuflor. She is eating hay pretty good, and a tiny bit of grain. We may try drenching grain too though. Hadn't thought of that!
> Every time we try to pick her up I feel her babies kicking every place I put my hands. It makes my smile and want to cry at the same time... I'm glad they are okay for now.


I kinda like the idea of giving both. At a certain point you don't want to *not* be aggressive. Especially if one is down. You might want to hit her with some probios paste once or twice a day. If she's still eating some hay, drenching the NG probably isn't necessary. I would still try it though. Don't freak out when her temp goes back up again. It almost always does. It doesn't mean she is done for. In fact it means she's still fighting. Hang in there, kid.


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## Axykatt

I have nothing helpful to add, but I want you to know I'm scared for you and following this thread. 

Peggy Sue and I send all our love and support. :hug:


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## milk and honey

I'm listening to that rain and thinking of you and your doe... I'll send a prayer too.


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## Crossroads Boers

I tried to call Cascade several times. They and South Fork are our two vets. Cascade has been great... when they are open! They closed at 2:30 yesterday and I was calling and calling at 2:22 and got no answer. 

Just checked on her and gave several more injections and drenched her. She did eat some hay again. Poli didn't look great when we first got to her. She was moaning again, grinding teeth and drooling. She is really weak still and never even tried to get up. She has finally started passing pellets for the first time since she went down, so that's good. She may have peed at some point... but I don't know. She had moved back several feet from where we left her, but I seriously doubt she got up and moved herself. She probably just scooted back. 

Temp is back to 103.0. I didn't freak out Tim.  We have been giving ProBios as a drench with the powder we have.. will that do or should we get the paste? We can make a trip to the Del's in Morton as they should have it. 

E, unless she pees when she is lying down, there's no way she's going to pee when she's standing up. Well, sorta standing up. Her back legs buckle and she won't put any support on them, and it's all we can do to keep her up for a few seconds. I'm guessing that is why she hasn't peed... because she can't stand.


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## 8566

saw this on facebook and thought it was really kool and something to remember. This lady needed to stand her goat who was down so she rigged up a youth saddle (reverse/upside down) and strapped the goat in. Hung it from the rafters in the barn. Not so sure the babies would like Poli's full weight on them but I thought it was smart thinking on this lady's part.

Hoping Poli turns for you today and starts to feel a bit better. She's a strong girl.


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## Crossroads Boers

oooh.. that IS a good idea! I'll go look at our saddles and see.


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## NubianFan

Maybe if you put an egg crate mattress or some memory foam in the belly part, it might support babies a bit better?


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## bayouboergoats

She made it thru the night!!! Yay! I prayed all night for her and you. How is she now? Any improvements?


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## toth boer goats

Glad she is a bit better, we need to get her up on her feet. I was going to mention the hoist type thing of any kind to support her weight as well. It will help, massage her legs, if she is down for too long her muscles in her legs will weaken and she will not be able to get up again.

Hang her too where her knee's are slightly bent so if she wants to try to stand on her own she can. Don't leave her there all the time, she needs a break sometimes.

I wouldn't feed her grain while she is down, it will not be good for her right now.

For goats, that do not eat, get a 60cc syringe, get some Alfalfa pellets and mix some water in a blender, just make a little bit, make it so, it will go easily through the syringe and very slowly feed it to her. Put electrolytes or what ever you want to give her in it. This will give her water and food to help her get stronger. Always make a new batch each time you want to feed her this. Have free choice hay there in case it gets her to eat normally.

Did you do the skin test to see if she is dehydrated?


Praying for her. :hug:ray:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Another way you can get her up is to slide a thick saddle pad under her, the slide a saddle cinch under her girth, but where its sitting on the pad, and uder her at the flank, again, have the cinch on the pad, but in that area. Tie some straps to each side of the cinch, bring the strap over the top of her, then hoist her up that way. 
When you get her up you have to massage her legs vigorously and pump them back and forth over and over again. Dont have her up for more than 45 minutes at a time, but try and get her up every 2 hours if you can. Most of the time she is up, you should spend it massaging, and pumping the legs up and down to get the circulation going to them again.


----------



## Tenacross

Crossroads Boers said:


> Temp is back to 103.0. I didn't freak out Tim.  We have been giving ProBios as a drench with the powder we have.. will that do or should we get the paste? We can make a trip to the Del's in Morton as they should have it.
> .


No, the powder is fine. These are things I would do if she were my goat. You already have some excellent people working with you, so take if for what it's worth. Free. I would still give that propylene glycol twice a day. Two ounces. I would still give some calcium. It seems likely that the pregnancy *is* a factor in all this. The PG gives them energy. Last year my doe Charish was going down hill *after* she kidded quads. I had been treating her with the PG and MFO for a couple of weeks before she kidded because she was showing signs. Anyway, she was completely quitting her food and not making much milk. My vet took blood and found that her *creatine* and BUN levels indicated kidney failure. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BUN-to-creatinine_ratio
My vet then put in a IV line and we hung fluids on her several times a day. He put a little injectible dextrose and some B vits in the lactated ringers. Anyway, he hung the first bag and then I did the others. You have to flush the line before and after with saline. It's not that hard once the IV is in. 
That's the hard part. Anyway, after this, Charish made a rapid and permanent improvement. I should mention the IV line also allows for IV administration of antibiotics. We gave Charish Naxcel. So for the vet, I would ask, "could you please run a blood and check the kidney function"? They can tell things about infection with the blood too.

The other thing no one wants to talk about yet is the pregnancy is making it very tough for her to turn the tide on whatever it is going on. Trust your vet on what to do about that.


----------



## toth boer goats

Tenacross said:


> The other thing no one wants to talk about yet is the pregnancy is making it very tough for her to turn the tide on whatever it is going on. Trust your vet on what to do about that.


Victoria wants to try to save Poli and her babies, it is a tough situation and stressful for everyone.
Yes, I agree, it is something that we don't want to talk about, as a decision such as that, is very hard to think about. And sometimes it may or may not make any difference. I pray Poli and her babies will be OK, she has perked up. And may be responding some to treatment, only time will tell. 
Now, we need to get her on her feet and eating.
Victoria is trying very hard to save her and I am sure, she will do what is best for the situation, no matter what it may be.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Yes Pam I did and she doesn't seem dehydrated. 

She's not doing good. About an hour ago I thought she was about dead... Her neck is stiff and she keeps rolling her eyes back into her head. She keeps contracting her body like she's in labor too. 

We have her slung in a makeshift sling now... 

I wanted to get the vet out, but he said the only thing he could do that we aren't/haven't done is IV fluids into her. We have been drenching her with so much water/electrolytes I don't know if that would be necessary. 

I'm about out of hope... I gave it my all and I think we are going to lose this battle. I haven't lost a goat in 8 years. Please pray. 

If aborting the babies would help any I'd do it... but at this point I don't know if it would help


----------



## NubianFan

I think I might take my chances on the iv fluids... but it is your call and your vet and you may have discussed things that make it seem like it wouldn't help much. I hope she pulls through for you, Prayers winging there way to you and her. Come one Poli don't give up girlie.... All I can suggest is love, love, love on her, they seem to thrive on love... but I am sure you already know that.


----------



## Texaslass

Leslie has good advice. I'm still praying too. :hug: I really hope she pulls through. :hug:


----------



## littlegoatgirl

I'm praying with all my heart. If you lose her I think I might just cry too. Come on Poli, you can pull through this! Prayers, prayers, more prayers, and hugs  ray: :hug:


----------



## toth boer goats

Has she gone sub temp? With cold weather happening and not able to move around, will make her cold and stiff. 
Is there a way, to put a heat lamp out for her or a sweater?

Massage her rumen as well. Does she have any gut sounds?

Prayers for her, I hope she will pull through.


----------



## Scottyhorse

I'm still praying... Poor girl  :hug:


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## Crossroads Boers

Thank you all so much! I really appreciate it! She's back on the ground now and sound asleep. I need to go get a picture...  I think she may be doing a little better. We are heavily dosing Pen and Thiamine. We have a blanket on her and she is very warm. Her temp is normal and holding. 

Yep, sounds were coming from her gut. And her rumen seems active. Lots of movement on the left side. She hasn't chewed her cud for days though.... 

I can still feel babies. They are very lively still.


----------



## ksalvagno

If you can get cud from another goat, I would get that into her. Will help her rumen.


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## Scottyhorse

I truly hope she does get better and pull through this.


----------



## NubianFan

ksalvagno said:


> If you can get cud from another goat, I would get that into her. Will help her rumen.


really? that is interesting...


----------



## Crossroads Boers

A friend who successfully did that told me to do the same thing... ew. Might as well do it though. If she does die I want to be able to say I tried everything... 

Here's a pick of my life right now.


----------



## ksalvagno

Ohio State University actually has a cow with a side port that they can get rumen juice out of when they need it. Has saved quite a few ruminants over the years.

Pretty girl! I hope she pulls through for you.


----------



## NubianFan

come on Poli!!!!


----------



## fezz09

Awe! That picture breaks my heart!! I hope she pulls through!


----------



## Scottyhorse

Reminds me of my poor Cleo after she had her C-Section, ruptured uterus, and then went septic... Wrapped up in blankies on my lap  

Poor girl. Hope she pulls through.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I don't know, that still sounds like PT to me, I've dealt with it a few times, and I have learned to abort the babies when that happens, better chance to save the doe. I really didn't want to mention aborting the babies, but she doesn't sound good.

Here's a website, with an article about a guy and his dealings with PT, maybe read through it. A lot of it sounds like what you're dealing with, not standing, laying around, was off feed, not drinking, etc.
http://www.motesclearcreekfarms.com/asp/articles/Ketosis.asp


----------



## littlegoatgirl

So cute. I'm really hoping she pulls through!!!! Prayers!


----------



## bayouboergoats

. . . 


Still sending LOTS of prayers your way....


----------



## christinajh

Do you have ringer's solution for keeping her hydrated? I always keep some in my fridge from my days of breeding Shetland Sheepdogs, and I picked up the habit again when I got into goats. Good thing to keep on hand because you can SQ it to keep them from becoming dehydrated.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

No I don't have Ringer's solution... 

We are still giving her Proplene Glycol (PG) and Cal Gluc (CG) for PT. Right now she's getting PG, CG, VitB Complex, Penicillin, Nuflor, Banamine and Thiamine. I was just in town to re-stock supplies. 

PT may be in her, but that wouldn't cause the high temp and rolling back eyes and contracting movements. 

She's still no better or worse.... 

I just realized I haven't eaten anything since last night and am pretty worn out. This will be a long night I betcha!


----------



## NubianFan

You better let someone else watch her long enough for you to eat. has she peed at all yet, just not peeing can kill an animal or a human. In the morning will the vet come?


----------



## toth boer goats

Come on Poli, ray:you can do it girl, pull through for all of us, we are rooting and praying for you.
Also sending prayers to you Victoria and the family, this is a very hard thing to go through and very tiring,though, that is when a goat has better chances of pulling through. 

Glad her rumen is good. 

Check on her often, throughout the night.

Did you get some Alfalfa pellets and water mixture in her, as I described before? Seeings how her rumen is working, it is good to get food in there, no grain though.

Will she drink warm molasses water?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Crossroads Boers said:


> PT may be in her, but that wouldn't cause the high temp and rolling back eyes and contracting movements.


It can cause her to go into labor early though, and in women, it can raise their temperature.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I just gave her 15cc of Penicillin G Procaine IM... My friend who's been helping me over email said 15-20cc. The bottle says for IM injections only. So that's what I did. Now I am reading online that I just WAY overdosed her for IM and should have done SQ for that amount...


----------



## Jessica84

Its fine. That's a dose the vet told me to give my doe when she had preg.tox. and I don't think my doe was as big as her.


----------



## Jessica84

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I don't know, that still sounds like PT to me, I've dealt with it a few times, and I have learned to abort the babies when that happens, better chance to save the doe. I really didn't want to mention aborting the babies, but she doesn't sound good.
> 
> Here's a website, with an article about a guy and his dealings with PT, maybe read through it. A lot of it sounds like what you're dealing with, not standing, laying around, was off feed, not drinking, etc.
> http://www.motesclearcreekfarms.com/asp/articles/Ketosis.asp


I have learned as well and made a promise to my girls. I'm still kicking myself I didn't go with my gut with the doe I lost......so don't feel bad about saying the big A.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Crossroads Boers said:


> I just gave her 15cc of Penicillin G Procaine IM... My friend who's been helping me over email said 15-20cc. The bottle says for IM injections only. So that's what I did. Now I am reading online that I just WAY overdosed her for IM and should have done SQ for that amount...


She should be fine. Penicillin has a very slow absorption time, and it is very hard to overdose antibiotics to where it is harmful. I use penicillin IM at the same dose as I use for SQ.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Oh thank goodness... I thought I'd just killed her!! 

Still no improvement or worsening... I don't get it. I either wish she'd start improving or just die so we can stop going on like this. I'm not going to leave her until she's either dead or better, so the sooner things get moving the better. 

I'm not sure if my reply was posted earlier... but I ran into town to get more supplies and got Nutri Drench. 

Sooo.... today she's gotten 
Penicillin
Thiamine
Banamine
Nuflor
VitB Complex 
Proplene Glycol
Calcuim Gluconate
Electrolytes
Nutri-Drench
Probios
LOTS of water
Molasses and oatmeal and alfalfa dust mixed with water
I even did the great cud transfer! 

So she's getting treated for Polio, PT and Pneumonia all at the same time.


----------



## ksalvagno

There is no question that you are doing everything you can.


----------



## 8566

Try and get some sleep. Maybe a cot in the barn. 
You are both in a marathon of a battle. Fighting with all you got.
You are doing great


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Sounds like what your doing is good, hopefully she'll get better faster. Were you able to get he up much today, and get her legs circulating? Is she peeing yet?

What color are her eyelids?


----------



## toth boer goats

Penicillin is a milder antibiotic, it is really hard to overdose, unless you get it into a vein and that is deadly, so, she will be OK.

Glad she received alfalfa dust mixed with water., along with everything given.

You are doing everything right Victoria, hang in there, I know it isn't easy, but keep the faith. 
Poli has a lot of prayers out there.







:hug::grouphug:


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## Crossroads Boers

We had her up a time or two... she was in a sling for an hour or so too. We have been rolling her over every 3 hours and massaging and stretching her legs. Still no pee... 

Her eyelids are pretty pale. We just recently de-wormed her... 

She has been contracting every 5-10 minutes for hours... but with no results. I probably already said this, but even if we were to induce her, I think it would kill her in the process as she is so incredibly weak. But then it may help her to have the babies out too. So not sure what to do there.  I have Lute on hand, but no other inducer other than that.


----------



## Used2bmimi

I am so sorry you are going through this. I will continue to pray for you. You are doing an amazing job fighting for your girl.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'd induce her since she is already contracting, and you're battling with all this, they are still dragging her down. Is she dialating at all, ligs soft? I'm wondering if something happened to the kids and that's what caused this...
If you do induce her, you'll have to reach in and pull them for her.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Can you have a vet come out and do an ultra sound to see if the kids are still ok? Or have an x-ray to see if she has a stone and that's why she isn't peeing? It is possible for does to get stones, rare, but possible.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Mimi.  

We just induced her... you're going to have to help me through this.  I figured we'll probably loose them all anyway. She dilated a little, but not much. It's hard to tell on the ligs.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I'll try to have a vet come out tomorrow...


----------



## Crossroads Boers

She just peed a ton!!!  Finally got to test her with a strip and it is completely negative... Great timing, I just killed her babies.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

How much lute did you give?


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## Crossroads Boers

2 cc.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well, at least she is finally peeing, does she seem to be perking up any? The part that has me a bit worried is that she has been having contractions all day, and nothing so far. You might not have killed the babies if they were no longer alive. When you induce them it can take up to 24-58 hours.
If you can save her she can alway be rebred for furture kids, what's most important is saving her right now.


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## Crossroads Boers

Shortly after she finally peed, she did seem a little perkier. She was able to move her head/neck by herself without her eyes rolling back into her head. She mostly just lays with her head in one of our laps for 3 hours then we roll her onto her other side. She currenlty isn't and hasn't even been lifting her head. She is stiff on one side and has trouble breathing on that same side. The other side is pretty good. The one sided stiffness sounds totally like polio... I was hoping we would have seen improvement by now with the meds we've been giving. 

Her babies are still alive. I just felt them kicking pretty lively. You're right though, I still think this was a good choice.


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## bayouboergoats

I have no words...other than I am so sorry.. Hugs and prayers still coming your way


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## bayouboergoats

This is so sad. I think you made the right choice by giving her the lute I would have done the same if I were in your position. So your thinking polio or listerosis (sp) then?

How is she doing now?


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## NubianFan

I certainly hope a vet can come out today. I am still sending thoughts and prayers your way.


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## christinajh

I hope you are able to get the babies out okay without causing too much trauma to mom. Best of luck today


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Oh Victoria I'm so sorry..  :hug: I hav been following this thread... But didn't know what to say so haven't posted.. 
I'm praying for Poli.. :hug: so glad to hear she peed! And was a little perkier  hope she continues to improve.. 

Sorry about the hard choice with the kids  :hug: I admire your strength through this... I would be a compleat mess..


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Amber, I needed to hear that. Thank you all for the support and prayers.  Yes, I think it's polio. I don't think that's what she started out with though.

I keep telling myself it was the right choice to abort. I think she should have them out before too terribly long anyway as she is still contracting. She has dilated a good bit and I can easily get 3 fingers in.

If we can save Poli once the kids are out, it will be worth it. If we lose her shortly anyway, I'll take it much harder.

I'll call the vet soon...

Caroline and I stayed with Poli all night and got little if any sleep. But we stayed right on top of all those meds and drenching.  I am getting discouraged though with seeing no improvement. She is still stiff and her eyes are twitching. She has been passing pellets ever since she peed as well, so that is great. I'm glad her insides are working.



J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Oh Victoria I'm so sorry..  :hug: I hav been following this thread... But didn't know what to say so haven't posted..
> I'm praying for Poli.. :hug: so glad to hear she peed! And was a little perkier  hope she continues to improve..
> 
> Sorry about the hard choice with the kids  :hug: I admire your strength through this... I would be a compleat mess..


Oh trust me... I'm doing my best to not break down, but I am very emotional. As I've been driving the long 45 mins into town several times over the last 2 days it's been a good opportunity to let my heart ache and tears flow. I never thought this would happen. I was looking so forward to these babies.... more than all the others. But, God is good... all the time and I know there is a purpose for this.


----------



## springkids

I am so sorry. I haven't been able to get online and I am just now catching up. I don't have any advice. I will be thinking about you today. Again I am sorry.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Crossroads Boers said:


> Thank you all.  I keep telling myself it was the right choice. I think she should have them out before too terribly long anyway as she is still contracting. She has dilated a good bit and I can easily get 3 fingers in. If we can save Poli once the kids are out, it will be worth it. If we lose her shortly anyway, I'll take it much harder. I'll call the vet soon... Oh trust me... I'm doing my best to not break down, but I am very emotional. As I've been driving the long 45 mins into town several times over the last 2 days it's been a good opportunity to let my heart ache and tears flow. I never thought this would happen. I was looking so forward to these babies.... more than all the others. But, God is good... all the time and I know there is a purpose for this.


I'm praying for Poli.. I pray she makes it after the kids are out and gets better quickly! :hug:

I would imagine  :hug: 
I think that's the best way to think on it... He has it all planed out...there is a reason for it.. That alone is comforting in a way.. I'm praying for the both of you.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Skyla.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

:hug:


----------



## Jessica84

Does lute make them dilate or just go into labor??? I thought it only had them go into labor. If it doesn't seem she is that swelled back there you can place your fingers in her and put some pressure as you kinda rub back and forth and around. No matter what she has I think you did the right choice. I was thinking last night that maybe the kids are pushing on things and maybe she got a bladder in fiction or kidney. As I have learned with my daughter that there is only a small flap thing that blocks the tube to the bladder from the kidney and its very easy to 'break' that thing. Which isn't the end of the world but infection spreads easy. Idk I just keep thinking for you


----------



## Tenacross

I hate to say anything since you guys have done so much for this doe and still are doing them. What a lucky goat she is... But I'm going to say this one more time. If she is still alive and you still have some hope, this is Monday. The darn vet can get to work now. Put the IV line in. Give your doe IV fluids. It's not the same as oral fluids. It's the one thing, through no fault of you own, that hasn't been tried yet.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers still coming








Praying all goes OK with delivery and it helps her to recover better, you did the right thing, so don't feel bad there. We all would of done the very same if needed. 
It is devastating I know.


----------



## springkids

Still thinking about you and Poli.


----------



## 8566

Hugg Victoria -
I know there was a 'what if' moment.

Peeing and pooping is great news.
I hope she pulls through for you with her next hurdle = labor.

As a consideration - if things are goopy consider flushing her.

I must thank everyone on this thread too because I now have a small shopping list of a few things I should have onhand that I do not.

Test strips 
Ringer Solution


----------



## bayouboergoats

Is she making any progress yet? I am having trouble concentrating on my daily schedule worrying about Miss. Poli and you. 

I am sending so many ray:ray:ray:ray::hug::hug::hug::hug:to you and her.


----------



## Scottyhorse

So sorry you have to make these decisions, but you made the right choice. :hug: :hug: :hug: Let us know if you can get the vet out there and how she is doing.


----------



## Jessica84

Tenacross said:


> I hate to say anything since you guys have done so much for this doe and still are doing them. What a lucky goat she is... But I'm going to say this one more time. If she is still alive and you still have some hope, this is Monday. The darn vet can get to work now. Put the IV line in. Give your doe IV fluids. It's not the same as oral fluids. It's the one thing, through no fault of you own, that hasn't been tried yet.


I think a few comments back she said the vet is coming out later today.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

To help her dialate some more you can "feather" around, and that will help get things moving.

Sending lots of prayers and good thoughts your way. She'll pull through this! ray: :hug:


----------



## NubianFan

Tenacross said:


> I hate to say anything since you guys have done so much for this doe and still are doing them. What a lucky goat she is... But I'm going to say this one more time. If she is still alive and you still have some hope, this is Monday. The darn vet can get to work now. Put the IV line in. Give your doe IV fluids. It's not the same as oral fluids. It's the one thing, through no fault of you own, that hasn't been tried yet.


 I agree, there is a point when you reach a certain dehydration that drinking can't get you back to hydrated only iv fluids can, that is with humans... I can't imagine it is that much different in goats. The vet may not can do anything more but I would still want a vet there as soon as one could get there if it were me... (((hugs))) I can't imagine how tough this has been on you.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Well.... the best I could do with a vet is a haul in at 2 today at Cascade W. I tried every vet within an hour and nobody has vets available to send out. I know it will be hard on her... but I thought we better do it.


----------



## Scottyhorse

At this point I think anything is worth trying... :hug:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

^ Agreed! ray:


----------



## NubianFan

Honestly that makes me mad at the vets... I faced similar headaches when Daffodil was down with cocci. I felt that all the vets in the area felt goats were disposable and a waste of their time. My vet would have made a farm call but he was out of town. I know you probably don't want to hear my ire right now so I will shut up. 
You have done everything right and have really went above and beyond for your girl. I hope that she hangs on and pulls through for you. ray:


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## Crossroads Boers

The vet at Cascade that's the "goat" vet on call today was the guy I talked to yesterday who said the only thing he could do different was IV fluids. 

Do you think we'll have to leave her there?? I don't know if I'd want to do that. Somebody has to be with her 24/7 right now as she can't hold her head up...


----------



## nancy d

If you know how to do the IV go for it. If that's all vet can do I wouldn't move her but it's your call.


----------



## NubianFan

I would call them and ask to talk to a vet insist it is an emergency and ask just what he or she thinks you should do, if they can come out it would be better for her, but if you have to take her in, you could insist on them letting her come home with you after they started an iv or whatever, changing out iv bags can be done at home, a friend of mine's husband had to be sent home with an iv that she had to change out. so I don't see why you couldn't do it with a goat. I am just so scared for her, is she still contracting?


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Yes still contracting... I haven't messed with her back there recently, so will try again and see if we can get somewhere. 

My sister has done IV's before.... she could do it.  I'd probably pass out... I can give SQ injections, but not IM. I can draw blood though.... I know weird. I end up being the goat holder 99% of the time and she handles the injections and most of the blood drawing unless she can't find a vein... and then I'll try. I'm pretty squeamish with needles.


----------



## NubianFan

You guys may know more than the vet, I don't know, but I would want a vets eyes on her if it were me. Are the babies still kicking? I just wonder...


----------



## toth boer goats

If one of you is able to do the IV, go for it.

I would maybe try to get a vet to come out to look at her. If you feel you should. Use your best judgment there.
I wouldn't take her to the vet, it may be too much for her.

Come on Poli you can do it. Still pulling for her. 

Thanks for all the updates, I don't know how you do it. Your so busy.

I am very worried and respect and commend you guys so much, for all you are doing for her. ((Hugs))


----------



## NubianFan

toth boer goats said:


> Thanks for all the updates, I don't know how you do it. Your so busy.
> 
> I am very worried and respect and commend you guys so much, for all you are doing for her. ((Hugs))


I agree (((HUGS)))ray:


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Trust me... I tried to get a vet out here and after getting snapped at by the first receptionist (I guess I tried too hard) , I got frustrated. I still called the others I know and everybody said their vets are out right now and the soonest they could get one out would be tomorrow unless we haul in. 

I haven't felt for babies recently... I don't know how they are doing.


----------



## toth boer goats

I hear ya, it is definitely frustrating when it is an emergency and yet the vets are all busy, not fair.


----------



## Scottyhorse

I agree, I would do the IV if you can until you can see the vet. IV's really help, it would be a good idea to do that..


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Can you overdose banamine? Poli is in a lot of pain and is really starting to push/contract. Yet, she still is not very dilated. I have tried to feather etc. to make her dilate but it doesn't seem to be helping...


----------



## nancy d

Isnt it 3 days max on banamine?
Oh Poli girl hang on, let babies come, our hearts are breaking as we pray.


----------



## 8566

rule that I know is banamine for just a few days.
she needs to get dialated.
I fear this is too much stress for her.

I've heard where someone put lute in some gel and 'with gloves on' takes some and messages around the cervix to dialate it.
Is there something the vet can give to dialate her better too?


:grouphug:


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I hope so... ^


----------



## ksalvagno

Banamine does have anti abortive properties so I wouldn't give it again until after she delivers. It shouldn't stop what is already in progress but I don't like to take chances.

Once she has delivered the placenta, I would give her another dose.


----------



## christinajh

The vet might have to surgically remove the kids if she isn't going to be able to deliver them herself. If you do have her deliver herself, make sure you have some oxytocin as well for after she's done to help clear everything out since she is not up and moving.


----------



## bayouboergoats

I am so very very sorry

Still sending hugs and prayers

Come in poli hang i their girl


----------



## Jessica84

LilBleatsFarm said:


> rule that I know is banamine for just a few days.
> she needs to get dialated.
> I fear this is too much stress for her.
> 
> I've heard where someone put lute in some gel and 'with gloves on' takes some and messages around the cervix to dialate it.
> Is there something the vet can give to dialate her better too?
> 
> :grouphug:


Yes the vet should. I can't for the live of me think what its called but yes. If the vet is coming to you tell him you need him to bring some.


----------



## bayouboergoats

What is the deer population like up there? Do you have whitetail deer?


----------



## toth boer goats

BAnamine can cause other issues if given too often.

It is for a few days I would stop that now.

Stimulate her vulva area with your fingers all the way around, lightly pulling your fingers outward with your finger tips in her. Although you may of already tried this.
I pray, she dilates with your help, if she doesn't, I agree, a vet needs to intervene.


----------



## goathiker

bayouboergoats said:


> What is the deer population like up there? Do you have whitetail deer?


 Meningeal Worm hasn't made it across the Rocky Mountains yet, That shouldn't be it.


----------



## bayouboergoats

goathiker said:


> Meningeal Worm hasn't made it across the Rocky Mountains yet, That shouldn't be it.


Okay I had no idea.

a friend of mine dealt with that. Her doe had pneumonia as a secondary infection that caused her to go off feed . Just thought I would Throw that out there.

This is just so sad I can not even imagine the pain Victoria and her sister are going through.


----------



## goathiker

I know and nothing is quite adding up...Praying


----------



## bayouboergoats

:hug: 


ray:



:hug:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Dexamethasone can help them dilate, lutalyse should have gotten her dilating more though, but it might just be taking a long time to fully kick in, sometimes two shots are needed. But so you know, do NOT let him give her Oxytocin first, only give that after he babies are out, it causes hard contractions which is not what you want when she isnt dilated enough. Try giving her some tums or calcium tablets to help her dilate more. Keep stimulation her, whatever you can do to get her dilating more.


----------



## NubianFan

I hope no news is good news and it means the vet is there and they babies are coming out.... I am on edge... ray:


----------



## christinajh

I hope the vet is able to help her, and I hope we have some good news coming.


----------



## toth boer goats

Me too guys.


----------



## littlegoatgirl

Prayers, this must be so incredibly hard. So sorry for you, this girl is truly blessed to have you helping her.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

We are back from the vet now... He said she should either greatly improve, or pass away within 24 hours. Like I've said over and over, no vet could come to our house today. It was what I wanted and wished for, but wasn't going to happen so we drove her in.

She has an IV port now and just had a whole bunch of Ringers fluid put in. Next dose is at 8. The vet also gave a Dex. injection so her labor is finally starting to quicken. She seems to be in so much pain... she just hollered really loud and is moaning with every breath. I feel so sorry for her.  She is really well dilated and pushing some now. Come on out babies, lets just get this done.


----------



## erica4481

Awww...sorry this is happening to you. I hope the babies are well and she pulls through nd recovers for you.:hug:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

She might not be able to push them out being so weak. If she is dilated enough it might be a good idea to help her out. 

I hope all goes well, really don't want her to die! I will be praying that everything goes smoothly ray:


----------



## littlegoatgirl

I'm so so sorry this has to happen to you. I'm praying so much for you, I think everyone here is pulling for you guys. Come on Poli, hang in there honey!


----------



## Scottyhorse

So sorry Victoria :hug: My whole family is thinking and worried about you and Poli! Keep us updated and I'll keep praying :hug:


----------



## bayouboergoats

Come on Poli let's just get this over with all ready. We all love you dearly and we want you to have a full recovery. You can do this girl spit them out so you can heal and recover .

Still sending so many hugs and prayers tell her we are all rooting for her.


----------



## toth boer goats

I agree, she may be very weak and may need a little help. 
Glad she dilated more.

Prayers coming for her to be OK.


----------



## Jessica84

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> She might not be able to push them out being so weak. If she is dilated enough it might be a good idea to help her out.
> 
> I hope all goes well, really don't want her to die! I will be praying that everything goes smoothly ray:


I agree and try and save her energy. Did the vet say what the whole underline issue is??? I know how frustrated you are I can't get a vet to come to me even if I paid them a million dollars so I really do feel for you. Its pretty much up to her right now I would make sure you keep going on the molasses for energy. No matter how it ends you gave 100% and . I'm sure praying for you Sunshine


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh I am so sorry Victoria 
You and Poli are in my thoughts and prayers :hug::grouphug:


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Yes , I am fully planning on pulling her kids as soon as I can fit a hand in. She stopped contracting... I think the Lute hasn't kicked in yet. 

The vet said it is Polio what she has now... and he thinks the temp was from pneumonia or PT. When he said that I just thought, "hey, we all are pretty good at diagnosing!". 

Her breathing finally slowed and she isn't moaning as much. I wish she'd close her eyes and sleep... they just stay open and twitch and roll.


----------



## bayouboergoats

Poor poor Poli...


----------



## toth boer goats

Wow, poor girl, I will say it again, I am hoping for her to get well and get through this, prayers strongly being said.

Keep up the good work and I pray, she has those kids soon.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Poor Poli  Poor you  :hug:


----------



## clementegal

Awww this must be so tough on both of you! I'm so sorry!!! My prayers are coming your way I hope she pulls through for you he is so luckey to have you as her owner!!!


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks for the thoughts, prayers and support! I know we can get through this! I am so tired... not looking forward to another long night, but hope to get some sleep this time, maybe.  Poli is resting now. Still no contractions. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

I hope she doesn't pass away tomorrow... that wouldn't be a good thing to have happen on one's birthday.


----------



## nancy d

All of you must be exhausted. His will be done. We all love all 3 you. Poli knows the babies aren't ready for birth.
Things are happening that none of us really understand, including her.:hug:


----------



## Tenacross

Keep that port (straw thingy in her neck) clean. They get clogged. I'm hoping they gave you some saline solution to push through it. My race horse vet had to tell me that as the goat vet didn't mention it. I hope this works. That IV gives you the best chance.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Nancy.  :hug: 

No he didn't say anything about cleaning the catheter... I'll call him again in the morning about it. Would a dog vet know about that? I'm going to go to our dog vet to get Oxytocin there anyway tomorrow, and it's much closer than the vet in Chehalis.


----------



## Tenacross

Crossroads Boers said:


> Thanks Nancy.  :hug:
> 
> No he didn't say anything about cleaning the catheter... I'll call him again in the morning about it. Would a dog vet know about that? I'm going to go to our dog vet to get Oxytocin there anyway tomorrow, and it's much closer than the vet in Chehalis.


Yes they would. Try and get a small bottle of saline. You push like 10cc through before and after hanging the fluids. It sucks when they get clogged. Did you have any trouble with the 8pm bag?


----------



## Crossroads Boers

The IV cord won't come out of the port!!!  We spun it where it needs to be un spun... but the other little part won't come out! What are we doing wrong?


----------



## NubianFan

Victoria did you get it figured out? Do I need to pm someone for you, I don't know anything to tell you, wish I was there to help....


----------



## Scottyhorse

You have to hold the port really hard and steady with two fingers while twisting the tubing end with your other hand. If you have forceps, you can hold the tubing with them and hold the hub with your two fingers and twist, and it will break the seal.

Message from my mom, hope that helps.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Okay thanks... I still can't get it but will keep trying.


----------



## Scottyhorse

You're welcome. My mom is a nurse so it's second nature for her. When she was teaching me how to do IV's on our pygmy goat it takes a few tries to get it. Good luck


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Got it! That was frustrating... Thanks for the help.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Crossroads Boers said:


> Got it! That was frustrating... Thanks for the help.


Ok good. Hopefully the next time it will be easier for you!


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I anyone awake? It is 3:00am and we are trying to put the IV fluids down her again. The port is not allowing hardly anything through it, and I have tried to flush it to no avail. I stick an empty syringe and long needle down int ot he port and pull the plunger back and forth, but I am not getting anything! Any suggestions? COuld I put a little bit of the ringers solution in the syringes and try to flush it out with that?


----------



## littlegoatgirl

I'm awake but I have no idea, I'm so so sorry! Prayers! :hug:


----------



## bayouboergoats

I have no idea either ! I am so sorry i am no help!

Sending prayers and thoughts still.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I talked with the vet and he said the catheter is probably kinked or just really clogged. We tried flushing it with the solution and it came right back out the top. 

So we may be going back to the vet to get a new catheter... or hopefully get somebody out here. I'm so frustrated. Just when I thought we could get her better with this, we can't even get the fluid in.


----------



## clementegal

Could you inject the fluids? With a regular shot? I'm praying for both of you still! You've made it this far don't give up!


----------



## Texaslass

I'm so sorry ! How is Poli today, still the same?


----------



## Trickyroo

The vein might be blown already. You may have to take it out and re insert above that area , not right above , but a inch at least.
Use a new one.
Lord knows I am praying for all of you , My God why do you have to go through this !!


----------



## 8566

Hoping the solution is making a noticeable difference for her and the Polio treatment is kicking in too.
She sure is a strong girl.

You both are fighters! Don't want to flood the forum in case you have a ?/post and people need to see it but know we are all sending prayers.

@ScottyHorse - if you see this - I think for myself and I hope others it would be really kool if you and your mom could take a few photos about what Victoria was having a problem with and any other tricks/references to using/inserting ringer solution.


----------



## nchen7

omg...I've been out of town, so I haven't been able to check the forum until now, and just went though this thread.

Victoria, I have nothing to add, except that I am SO VERY SORRY you are going through this. I'm sending you and Poli strength and love to get through this ordeal. :hug:


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Good morning!  

She's still the same... she's not thrashing as much as she was last night and seems pretty calm now. She had been kicking her legs a lot too but isn't for now at least. Still no contractions either. I felt her babies kicking last night, so know they aren't dead yet. 

We did get some sleep last night so I feel somewhat revived.  It' Caroline and my birthday actually (we are 2 of quadruplets!) but not a very happy one. 

We have been injecting the Pen IM again every 3 hours, and drenching her with water. I don't know, maybe I could drench the solution? I'll ask the vet. 

I'm hoping we can get Poli in fairly soon and get the port/catheter fixed and moved so we can start the IV again. I just feel like it's hopeless and we are preventing the inevitable. Poli seems so miserable sometimes I wonder if it would be more humane just to put her down.


----------



## NubianFan

Happy Birthday! Wow one of quads... Thats cool! She sure is fighting. Maybe I should keep mouth shut but I feel like she is trying to keep her kids. Ypu are in my thoughts you have certainly been fighting right along with her.


----------



## 8566

I don't know - this is all out of my territory but I'm thinking the thrashing of the legs is good because it keeps them moving.

She isn't giving up - and she wants to keep her babies is seems. I'm surprised she hasn't aborted from the stress but it appears she has a different plan.

Glad you got some rest. The day isn't over yet for having a GREAT BDay.
:gift::gift::gift:

Maybe today is the day.


----------



## Jessica84

Happy birthday.....I really hope by the end of the day it's a happy one. 
Are you giving her a ton of theime or how ever you spell it. From the posts I have read on polio that seems to be very important.....someone chime in if I'm wrong. Maybe kicking of the legs is her trying to get up ??? That's a good sign if she is.


----------



## nchen7

:birthday: I hope Poli knows it's your birthday, and that she'll make a turn for the better as the best birthday present ever. you and her are both such fighters! 

and omg, QUADS?!?!? that's SOOO cool!!!


----------



## ksalvagno

Happy Birthday! I hope Poli shows improvement for you.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Happy birthday Victoria!  :stars:
I hope Poli makes a turn for the better for you today! You both are still in my prayers!  :hug:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I hope you have a great birthday and things start looking up! Poli is trying very hard to keep her babies if she still has them after being induced twice! I'm glad they are still alive and she stopped contracting.
I'm still hoping and praying for you! My boer doe Daisy went through something similar to polio, she's still around!


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks...  Yep, there were 3 girls and a boy. My mom had 5 kids in 16 months!  You try having 5 kids in diapers some day....  She had LOTS of help! 

Poli is fighting hard... I think that's what's keeping me going. Don't you give up Poli, we can get through this. I almost hope she keeps her kids... and recovers. Doubt it, but I don't want to go through the abortion process. I'm perfectly fine with her keeping them now as I'm not sure how much it would help at this point anyway. 

We have been giving 6cc of Thiamine every 3 hours. VitB every 6 and Pen. every 3.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Poli's daughter Liberty is curled up next to her with her head lying on her. It made me cry. I'm trying so hard Liberty... with all my heart I want your mom to live.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Crossroads Boers said:


> Poli's daughter Liberty is curled up next to her with her head lying on her. It made me cry. I'm trying so hard Liberty... with all my heart I want your mom to live.


Awe..  that's making me cry..  I truly hope she recovers soon and quickly and can keep her kids.. :hug:


----------



## Scottyhorse

So sorry Victoria... What a way to spend a birthday  hopefully she improves even a little bit. Unfortunately my mom is at work right now otherwise I would have her tell you and what to do with the IV.... 
Liberty is so sweet... Hopefully her being with Poli will help. Hang in there Victoria. :hug:


----------



## Scottyhorse

LilBleatsFarm said:


> Hoping the solution is making a noticeable difference for her and the Polio treatment is kicking in too.
> She sure is a strong girl.
> 
> You both are fighters! Don't want to flood the forum in case you have a ?/post and people need to see it but know we are all sending prayers.
> 
> @ScottyHorse - if you see this - I think for myself and I hope others it would be really kool if you and your mom could take a few photos about what Victoria was having a problem with and any other tricks/references to using/inserting ringer solution.


I will ask her about doing that sometime, I agree it would be helpful.


----------



## Texaslass

: :stars: :cake: :stars: :goattruck: :leap: :greengrin: :birthday: :cheers: :dance: :wahoo:    :gift: arty: :grouphug: :clap: :applaud: :birthday: :balloons: :fireworks: :rainbow: ::

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!

 I hope everything turns out great today!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm wondering if a tetracycline type antibiotic would help more than the penicillin is. When daisy was down I gave her Oxymycin 200, it seemed to help her.


----------



## Tenacross

I had a few problems with the IV like you guys are. Both the "kink" and the "clog". The lactated ringers solution is sticky. You were on the right track trying to stick a long needle down there, but you should have some injectable liquid in the syringe. You are trying to flush that catheter. Also, I was able to find "the right angle" for the port to be at that "unkinked" the catheter. If that makes any sense. Play with that port keeping in mind how the change of angle is affecting the catheter below it. If the angle is right, you can get that needle in. If it's wrong, you won't be able to get the needle in all the way. I saw this coming and for the life of me don't know why these vets wouldn't think it important to give you some saline. My vet did the same thing. At the race track the vet assistant to my horse vet said flushing the catheter before and after was standard procedure at human hospitals where she also works. Once I started doing that, I kept that catheter working for over two days. My goat was better by then. Is she dialated any more yet?


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I haven't checked to see if she's dialated more. She's not contracting anymore I know that. 

When I called the vet he said to try and flush it with the solution. We tried that and it just came right back out the top... I made and app. for 11:15 to get have the vet see what's going on. 

I'll ask him about an different antibiotic.


----------



## toth boer goats

Happy Birthday all of you.









Wow, Poli, doesn't want to give up those babies, I myself, after the attempt to do so, with no results. Would not try to push anymore, that really put a lot of stress on her. If dilation is subsiding now and she is stable, not getting worse, then maybe God has other idea's for her to hold her babies, she may start getting better.

It is very bizarre, she didn't respond to the Lute, it is really strong. So someone of a greater power is watching out for her. 
With all the prayers heading your way, we are flooding the prayer hotline. 

Liberty is good for her right now, gives her the will to live even more so. What a precious young girl, to love her momma so much.

It will be a great gift for Poli to improve. You all are so special and I believe there is hope.









With her thrashing her legs, that does means, she still can use them, which is good.

Are you still putting her in the sling occasionally?

Keep up the good work and I am still praying for all.


----------



## nancy d

Its not time yet. When checking dilation a week or two early my doe who I thought was ready practically hit the ceiling & she is much older than Poli.


----------



## Trickyroo

Please Poli and babies , hold on. Please.
Not a minute goes by I am not thinking of you all.
God Bless.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Pam.  I'm breaking down emotionally and cry at everything now... I cry every time I read a post on here. You all are so supportive and it means so much to me right now! Thank you! 

Thanks Laura! I don't think I could do this without all this support! 

No... haven't tried the sling again. We've just been rolling her over every 3 hours and then she'll kick and thrash the legs on top. She has LOTS of air/gas (?) come out her mouth every time we roll her over. I haven't seen her left side working for a while... would it help to transfer cud again? That seemed to keep her rumen working. She hasn't passed pellets since yesterday morning either, but has been peeing quite often. 

I was told to stop giving molasses as it counteracts the Thiamine. So we just gave her nutri-drench this morning and nothing else. Should I keep with the oatmeal/alfalfa leaves?


----------



## Used2bmimi

I would think that the transfer of cud couldn't hurt and it might help. I am still praying for you here. The emotional breakdown is totally understandable! Have you been taking YOUR b vitamins? You should be. They are important for people under stress too. And guess what? Look for one with thiamine too. I use Natures way B-stress formula. It really does help. You are doing great. Poli so blesses to have you helping to fight her battle.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'd try the cud transfer again, or use lots of probios, or both. Alfalfa and oatmeal is good, feed some fresh dandelion leaves and fresh greens like that if you can too. Maybe give some baking soda too since her rumen is off and she is gassy. You can use corn syrup instead of molasses too.


----------



## toth boer goats

We are here for you guys, it is OK to cry, we are crying too.

I would keep feeding her the alfalfa/oatmeal yes, it keeps he rumen working.
It is wise to get more cud from another goat, yes

I didn't know molasses did that, does the nutradrench have it in it as well? Not sure?

She is passing gas, that is good is she bloated?

Are you continuing to feed her every couple of hours with the Alfalfa mix? If not, she needs it and that may be why she isn't pooing. Nothing to poo out.


----------



## nancy d

You can also brew her a bucket of strong alfalfa tea & drench with that if she isn't drinking.


----------



## Jessica84

With any of my goats that have been off feed the only thing I could get them to eat has been oak leaves. Also have you tried dark beer. I can't remember why its good but goathiker told me to use it....and to tell you the truth I just do what she says  so never looked into why its good lol


----------



## Scottyhorse

It helps with their rumen. Make sure it's flat.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

We lost her... Poli's gone.


----------



## Tenacross

I'm so sorry. She was a very lucky goat to have you two.


----------



## Texaslass

:tears: :tears: I'm so so so sorry!!! :hug: I don't know what to say, I was really hoping she'd pull through...


----------



## clementegal

I'm speechless.... :Hugs: I've lost goats I was super close to before :,( it is NEVER easy! I'm so sorry :hugs: (lots and lots of hugs) :,(


----------



## Justice-Kidds

Very sorry to hear


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm so sorry! 

R.I.P Poli


----------



## DappledBoers

I am so sorry! It sounds like you did all you could do plus some. Sorry again.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Victoria... I'm so sorry... I really don't know what to say. I'm crying over here. She was a very lucky gal to have you and your sister to help her and comfort her in her last moments... So sorry. Hang in there. :hug:


----------



## nancy d

Oh dear Lord.


----------



## bayouboergoats

:mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry::mecry:


----------



## bayouboergoats

I am so so so so so sorry Victoria....I will still be sending prayers for you and your family. I do not know what else to say...so so sorry for your loss. =(


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh no,  I am so very sorry. We all are devastated and know how you feel. It is never ever easy to lose a precious goat, that we try so very hard to save. 

You are lucky to have Liberty out of her, she is a very nice Doe and will carry on Poli within her.

Don't be hard on yourself, I know it is easier said than done and say the what if's, you have done everything in your power and beyond to try to save her. 
You did do a great job.

I am sending more prayers to help you all get through this and a big







for all of you.

I am crying now for her,  I am very lucky to of purchased Crossfire, out of such a beautiful Doe like Poli.
I am so sorry for your losses


----------



## Jessica84

I'm so sorry  Pam hit it on the head I don't think you could have done one thing different to change the out come. She went knowing she was loved. I know there is nothing I can say to make you feel better just know I'm sorry :hugs:


----------



## Jessica84

^^^ that last face should have been a hug....I don't know what that is


----------



## ksalvagno

I am so sorry. There was nothing more you could do. You did everything possible for her. Please remember that you gave her your all including lots of love. :hug:


----------



## christinajh

Oh no! I'm so sorry


----------



## erica4481

Very very sorry for your loss


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I'm devastated... but I knew it was coming. She died at the vet right after we got the IV going. None of us saw it coming just then. I was so shocked. 

She's buried now down by a tree in the horse pasture. I have no regrets, and think I reached my goal of being able to say I tried everything. In a way I am relieved this is over... and am looking forward to getting some rest. 

Thanks Pam... I'm so glad we have Liberty, and you have Crossfire. Our herd won't be the same without sweet little Poli, but at least we still have her daughter.


----------



## NoahEm

Awww no! I've been rooting for you guys! Sorry you lost her :'(


----------



## goathiker

Oh No...I am so sorry. Get some rest Victoria, you deserve it for sure.


----------



## Axykatt

How very devastating.  I wish I knew what to say. :hug:


----------



## toth boer goats

Crossroads Boers said:


> Thanks Pam... I'm so glad we have Liberty, and you have Crossfire. Our herd won't be the same without sweet little Poli, but at least we still have her daughter.


 Your very welcome, anytime.

Poli is at peace now, it stills hurts very badly and I am so devastated for you.

You all deserve so much credit and I love how supportive everyone here was for you and Poli, throughout this whole ordeal.
We have a very special group here. :grouphug:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Oh I am so so sorry Victoria..  :tears:  :hug: I'm so sorry you lost her  :hug: she had a wonderful, very loved life with you guys :hug:


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh No :tears: Victoria i'm so very very sorry :hug::hug::hug: 
You went above and beyond to help Poli. The courage that you have is immense to have done what you did.
God bless all of you for what you have done for her . What a lucky girl she was to have a family like yours.
Poli is at peace now , at rest , no more pain. 
Please know we are all here for you and your family
I wish I could hug you and take away all the pain you are feeling.
Rest In Peace Sweet Poli , we all loved you.


----------



## Crossroads Boers

I'm so heartbroken. I did't know how much we'd miss her till she was gone. Poli was one of the best does ever and will be GREATLY missed for a long time. She was a special goat. 

If you all don't mind, I think I am going to abandon this thread for "Crossroads Waiting Room". I don't want to be reminded all the time of Poli. I'll start a new thread for Star and Cosmo in a few days.


----------



## clementegal

I don't think anyone would object we all completely understand! We are praying for you it's always hard to loose goats!


----------



## mmiller

I have been following this thread an was praying for you an Poli. So very sorry for you loss... Just know you did everything you could an not having no regrets will help with the healing process.


----------



## nchen7

OH NO!!!  i'm so sad for you, and I really don't know what I can say that would make you feel better! i'm sending my love to you and your family. get some much needed rest. :hug:


----------



## Crossroads Boers

Just want to say thanks so much everyone for all of your support through this! You all are amazing and I am so grateful for the care that you have shown.


----------



## NubianFan

I am so very sorry Victoria, I know you truly loved her, you fought so hard for her. (((HUGS)))


----------



## Scottyhorse

Victoria... I don't blame you for wanting to make another thread, I would too. 
Make sure you get some rest. Don't go to sleep thinking there was more you could do, because you went above and beyond. :hug:


----------



## Scottyhorse

Crossroads Boers said:


> Just want to say thanks so much everyone for all of your support through this! You all are amazing and I am so grateful for the care that you have shown.


That's what we're here for  :hug:


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## littlegoatgirl

Victoria, I am so so so so sorry. I completely understand, I would make a new thread too. When I saw that post, my heart sank and I broke down, I have no idea what you must be feeling right now. At least you know that you have certainly done everything possible to help her hang on. I am so so so sorry, these things shouldn't happen to someone who does do much for her goats. You truly are a special person and all of your goats are truly blessed to have you as their owner. So sorry. 
:hug: :hug: :hug:


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## Crossroads Boers

Thank you so much.... ^ :hug:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

What keeps coming to my mind when u think of you guys is 'The Lord gives, and The Lord takes away' .. I know it hurts really bad... I have lost very much loved pets too... 
:hug: I'm so sorry...


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## Used2bmimi

Shedding tears for you and your girl. I am so sorry.


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## 8566

I am so sorry Victoria.
Now she gets to bless your land and watch over everyone. 
I think Liberty knew and said her good byes.

Life just sucks!

Huggs


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## wildegoats0426

Just read all of this. Though in pretty new here and don't know every one I just want to let you know that Poli and your family are definitely in my thoughts and prayers. It sounds like you did the best you could for her and she knew she was loved by the best. Poli will always be with you watching over. Just look on the bright side and think about your other girls and their cute babies soon to come  hugs to you and keeping everyone in my prayers <3


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## Crossroads Boers

Thank you 3. :hug::hug::hug: My heart is still aching, and I can't stop thinking about how to keep this from ever happening again. It's hard letting her go. 

I contacted the family who owns Poli's full sister Political Liberty to see if they'd sell her to me. The don't want to and I don't blame them! But they are interested in breeding her to Teflon, so that would be really neat. The kids would be as close as we could ever get to a repeat breeding to get kids like Liberty and Crossfire. She had a gorgeous buck her first kidding.


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## Mrndly

I am so sorry about Poll, the whole ordeal was frightening to read about.

sending prayer for you and your family


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## Crossroads Boers

Thanks Maureen. I appreciate it.


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## Scottyhorse

:hug: Glad you are doing ok. I'm sure it will be hard for your heart to recover, but it will happen.


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## toth boer goats

Oh that is Awesome, being able to pair up Poli's full sister to Teflon, great idea. Sorry they didn't want to sell her though.


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## Crossroads Boers

I'm feeling better... but still hurting. I keep saying better do "whatever" for Poli and so and so.... then remember Poli's not here. It's hard. 

Cosmo and Star are so huge... they both have at least triplets. I'm a little freaked out now, so am trying to switch full attention to keeping a close eye on them. We are going to be testing them with the ketone strips at least once a day. 

Liberty got an extra big hug this morning.


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## Crossroads Boers

Liberty, Poli's sister is bred to this buck currently. He looks like Teflon, doesn't he? The next pic is Poli's sister and her buck from earlier out of the same buck.


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## Scottyhorse

Aww I love his face!


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## toth boer goats

It will be hard for a little while that is for sure, you spent many hours with Poli.

Now it's time, to try to heal and move on, which you have and have good plans ahead.

I don't think he is exactly like Teflon, Teflon to me, is a better buck all the way around.

Poli's sister is a nice Doe and the buck kid is nice as well.

Crossfire got a hug too yesterday.

He is feeling full of himself today, because he is bonding with Master Yoda now.
Crossfire took it hard, when he was separated from his Does, that he bred.
We were slowly introducing him to our big Buck Yoda, so they could see each other through the fence. 
At first, he was terrified of him, Yoda charged at him, but never hurt him, I would allow him with Yoda for a little while during the day and pen him up separate at night. Crossfire was so scared for a while, didn't eat much grain, but, did eat his hay. Now, he is picking back up on it.
I seen that things were calming down and they were laying by each other, so, I allowed them to be together throughout the day and pen him up at night, until a few days ago, now, I think things are starting to get better for him. He was hopping, bouncing and running around like a coo-coo bird, LOL.


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## Crossroads Boers

I'm trying to move on. It's getting easier each hour.  

His head looks like Teflon and his color is nearly identical... his conformation is not even close though I know.. 

Did you get some new pictures during Crossfire's new experience with a friend ?  It's time for new pics, don't you think?  Glad he and Yoda are getting along. We have to sell Rich now because he and Teflon don't get along and are tried to kill each other. We have nowhere to keep them separate all winter. They are separated now, but only temporarily. We have tried to reunite them several times, and I don't think they will ever get along again. It's really unfortunate, but I'm really not attached to Rich. He'll make somebody a great herdsire, but not for us anymore.


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## Frosty

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. It was heart breaking to read this thread thro but I did and wanted to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers. She will be missed but think of the good memories and that should help..


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## nancy d

Im sure you'll have no problem finding Mr Rich a new home.
For those who don't know we have his son One Four Richie pictured at left.
As for grief, may it be tender.:hug:


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## toth boer goats

Crossroads Boers said:


> I'm trying to move on. It's getting easier each hour.
> 
> His head looks like Teflon and his color is nearly identical... his conformation is not even close though I know..
> 
> Did you get some new pictures during Crossfire's new experience with a friend ?  It's time for new pics, don't you think?  Glad he and Yoda are getting along. We have to sell Rich now because he and Teflon don't get along and are tried to kill each other. We have nowhere to keep them separate all winter. They are separated now, but only temporarily. We have tried to reunite them several times, and I don't think they will ever get along again. It's really unfortunate, but I'm really not attached to Rich. He'll make somebody a great herdsire, but not for us anymore.


No picture's, I have to wait a while, til he picks back up on weight, he went through a spell, that he wanted his Does back, he'd cry so much that he went horse, poor dude, I felt so bad.  it is when we separated him after breeding, he was depressed for a while and had to adjust to his new room mate Yoda there after, cause I didn't have any more bucklings left to sell to put him with. So he backed way off the feed. Hay too. He looks good but, needs to build up.

I am sorry you have to sell Rich because they don't get along, it's too bad, but sometimes that can happen unfortunately.


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