# Okay.... bottle feeding... ready, set, go.



## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Had a fist freshers kid twins last night, big buck kid was first. He was dried off and nursing. Mom was still in labor, pulled a beautiful doe kid. Baby presented with one leg back and mom was having a hard time. Baby is alive and well. Baby girl (Grace) nursed off mom after she was dry. Went out this morning to a baby that was screaming hungry. Put her up to mom to nurse, hardly any suckling response. So I worked with her for a good half hour, could not get her to take the teat and mom was having none of it. Even with two people holding her as soon as she would make a sound baby would back off. So I caved and gave baby a bottle of colostrum. She drank over an ounce then went and nursed off mom. I thought I was in the clear. I had some running to do and when I got home I went to check on Grace. Mom had completely separated herself and the buckling from Grace. So I pick Grace up and bring her to mom to nurse, will not latch on. I repeated the 30 minute process like I did this morning still could not get baby to latch. So I went to the bottle, she drank over an ounce and a half. I am sure I just inadvertently made myself mom. So.... I have never ever bottle fed before today. I have doe's match milk replacer. Baby weighs around three pounds. I will get a better weight on her when I go out again in two hours hour much should I be feeding her? The colostrum replacer I have is land'o'lakes Bovine IgG so far she has had roughly 2.5 ounces how long sure I give her the colostrum and how much should she be drinking. Also if I bring baby in should I pull another kid with her so that she isn't alone? I have a doe who has triplets and the runt would be my choice to pull, not that she needs to be. Mom is doing great with three. But I only want what is best for Grace. Grace is from my favorite doe, she thinks she is a lap goat even at five moths pregnant we had the ritual of laying in my lap and getting her belly rubbed. So I am over the moon that she had a baby girl. Sorry for the book. Going on two hours of sleep.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give colostrum for 24 hours. I would bottle feed every 4 hours.


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## FascinatingLady (Mar 6, 2016)

Sounds like what happened with us. Oreo accepted the buck but the poor little Emily couldn't get anything. I got a few drops of colostrum into her and thought she was ok the next morning, but by noon she was cold and too weak to go after mom so we brought her in and gave her some of Oreo's milk. Once we got her warm and drinking from a bottle we took her back to mom, but Oreo attacked her, so now we have been feeding her milk from Oreo for about a week and a half. She weighed two pounds. I got her up to about 4 oz 3 x day now. We have a goat about 7 lbs in with her that is drinking milk from a bowl and eating some hay so hopefully will teach Emily how to be a goat.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Was she eating 4 ounces at every feeding?


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## CanucksStar-17 (May 3, 2013)

I feed my kids 4 times a day. As much as they want at first and then maximum 4 bottles a day. I use their mom's milk so I don't know if that makes a difference on how much or how often you have to feed them.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So went out to do chores. Grace was up and nursing like a champ. We are still going to keep a very close eye on her, but are going to leave her with mom for now.


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

That's good... :hugs:
Maybe when the doeling was first trying to nurse she was too clumsy at it, or just didn't do it like the buckling, and it felt "wrong" to mom.... And once the doeling got stronger, and more coordinated, the way she nursed felt more like mom expected? 
Who knows what goes on in their heads? :shrug: But I'm glad the little girl is doing better.


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## FascinatingLady (Mar 6, 2016)

Olliehaven said:


> Was she eating 4 ounces at every feeding?


Not at first. Maybe started with a couple ounces. She weighs 3.8 lbs at 10 days so has almost doubled her weight.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Aprilszoo said:


> That's good... :hugs:
> Maybe when the doeling was first trying to nurse she was too clumsy at it, or just didn't do it like the buckling, and it felt "wrong" to mom.... And once the doeling got stronger, and more coordinated, the way she nursed felt more like mom expected?
> Who knows what goes on in their heads? :shrug: But I'm glad the little girl is doing better.


I agree! I think she just needed the boost of the bottle to give her the strength to be able to nurse from mom. She is doing really well now. I went and check her this morning and she was up and nursing like a champ.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So miss Grace is now back in the house and on the bottle. I plan on keeping her in now. I weighed her last night and she weighed 3.8 lbs. I also weighed her brother and he weighed 4.88lbs. Tonight I weighed Grace and she only gained 2 oz. Her brother gained 5 oz. So I want to have her in the house to keep an eye on her and monitor her intake. Since having her in the house tonight she has not went to the bathroom. I have tried stimulating her like mom would do and still nothing. How long before I should start to worry?


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

By "gone to the bathroom"... Do you mean peed? or pooped? Or both?

Hopefully she's peeing and pooping up a storm for you by now.... But if not....
No pee most likely would be dehydration... By now she'd be in bad shape if that were still the case....

No poop is constipation, probably from not getting enough milk to keep things moving... In other words her body was using every bit of milk that it was getting, leaving very little to move thru the gut... More & more water gets pulled out of the stool when it's moving thru so slowly, making the BM harder and harder to pass

If this is the case, you will need to do an enema... You can use a syringe with no needle or (I prefer) a snot-sucker thing like they use on babies. (It's also called an ear syringe) 
Mix together a few ounces of warm water and either a few drops of dish soap or a couple tablespoons of cooking oil or mineral oil. Stir it up very well, suck some up in the syringe, lubricate the syringe with ky jelly or Vaseline....and insert just a little way into the rectum-- less than a cm. or so-- you have to get in past the sphincter. Squirt the liquid in and massage her tummy. Ideally you will squirt in enough liquid that a bit leaks back out around the syringe... Then you know it's enough, and to massage the tummy. You may have to refill the syringe a time or two. If no poo comes out (or only a tiny, hard bit) then repeat in 15-30 minutes...

You can repeat 1 or 2 times, each day* until she's going pretty regularly... it's usually not needed more than a time or two. If you use oil, some stays behind in the intestine, and kinda keeps things going....

Someone once posted the idea to sit on the edge of your bathtub to do the enema and hold the kid across your lap so their rear is hanging over into the tub.... That way when they go, it will be contained, and easily cleaned up.

If she stays constipated... You may need to add a little dark karo syrup to one bottle a day, or give a bit of milk of magnesia for a few days to work from "both ends" to get things moving...

I'm tired... So I hope that all made sense. Good luck...:rainbow:

*A member here, Dayna, once had to do at least daily enemas on a kid she bottle-raised for quite a while, I'm sure you can find the post if you search... Some kids are just prone to constipation until their gut matures.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Thank you! She did pee, alot! Now just gotta poop. I am going to try the enema.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So enema was a success. Lots of hard dark poo. Still standing hunched but not as bad. On my way to work. My fiancé has her for the day. I hope she does ok for him. I am a nervous mama.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Do they have maternity leave for baby goats? Lol


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## Sara+pumpkin (Jul 21, 2015)

I think they should!


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

Repeat the enema, as needed, until there is normal poop... If she's still hunched, then she still has a tummy ache. If she's got any more hard poop in there, it will keep backing up... And eventually will effect how she's digesting her milk.

I'd probably give a little MOM (milk of magnesia), 1-2 ml, repeated 2 times a day, until the poo is really soft, _almost_ runny...

That's what we do for human babes who are badly constipated... Enemas, and laxatives... The enema is for immediate/temporary relief and the purpose of the laxative is to totally clear the impaction so that you don't end up with a vicious cycle because there's still something there...

You want to make sure they aren't even a "little constipated". Obviously you don't want out-and-out scours, just for the poo to be softer than usual, on the verge of runny. If she does get too runny, just stop the MOM and add just a little oatmeal baby cereal to a bottle (just enough to thicken the milk a bit-- it still needs to be able to squirt thru the nipple*... Tip: pinch off the nipple before you shake it up, so the dry cereal doesn't form a big clump in the top of the nipple...) and she'll clear up.... Do not give pepto or kaeopectate as long as the poo is the right color, even if it's liquidy. With or with out the oatmeal... the MOM will work its way through her system pretty quick.

Another option to consider would be to give a stool softener... i.e. "Colace" aka docusate sodium. (Get the generic it's lots cheaper... Sometimes I've even seen it at the dollar store) It is sold as liqui-gels... Snip the tip of one, and squirt the contents into her mouth, or into a _little_ of her milk (not a full bottle... in case she doesn't finish it all). 
The reason I think is should be ok is that Colace can't be absorbed (molecules are too big) instead, gets into the intestine and does 2 things... It lubricates the colon, and it attracts water, so that more of it stays in the stool, making it softer. But it can take several days to see the effect.

Since it isn't absorbed systemically, I would give it to one of mine, if they needed it. I'd start with 1/2 the contents of 1 capsule, repeated morning and night... Once she's going regular... Back off to once a day, or every other day, until she's eating something solid... 
Obviously, you have to make a decision for yourself... Call your vet for guidance, if you trust them.

*Depending on what bottle/nipple you are using you may need to cut the slit a little bigger to get the thickened milk out easily... You could make a nipple that's just for thickened milk, in case you need it again....


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

olliehaven said:


> do they have maternity leave for baby goats? Lol


:slapfloor: :ROFL:


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Okay, baby Grace update! She did great for daddy... ahem I mean Chad. She drank three ounces of milk at her 8 am feeding and 10 am feeding. 2 ounces at noon and then 3 ounces at 4 pm. I was nervous about over feeding her so we skipped the 2 pm feeding. I will be feeding her again in about 20 minutes. I gave another enema. Still dry but not as hard. I have miralax can I give her some of that? Otherwise the mom will have to wait till tomorrow. Now that we have her eating good and feeling better she sure is a fiesty little thing. And already spoiled.... not by me of course.  our neighbors had an old play pen so I have that set up in the middle of my tiny living room. I am not sure who likes it more.... Grace or the cats. Lol


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

First off--- great job so far... :dance: Give "daddy" a :hi5:...

So, miralax is polyethylene glycol... And is also not absorbed into the bloodstream.... But it works differently than Colace. I don't even know what kind of dose would be appropriate to start at.... I don't think I'd wanna try it unless there weren't any other real options.... And you are no where near that yet...

Instead, if you don't have any MOM (which you should get ASAP anyway, because it's good to have on hand in case your goats eat something toxic) here's what I suggest: 

Add a 1/2 teaspoon or so of corn syrup (karo syrup) to the next couple bottles. Use the dark kind if you have it... It's a little more "laxative". If you don't have any corn syrup, then add a 1/2 - 1 teaspoon of oil, either cooking oil, like olive oil, or mineral oil to her bottle instead.... Shake it really well... And shake it up at least a couple times per feeding if you use the oil. Actually, if she'll take the corn syrup from a medicine dropper (like you use for babies) that would work too, she'll probably love the sweet, yummy treat... But don't give any oil unless it's mixed into her bottle because she might choke on straight oil. 
A tablespoon or two of apple juice or better yet, prune juice, would help... But you don't want to fill her up on juice. 

If you wanna just do a few enemas to get out all the hardened poo... and then a 1/2 teaspoon of corn syrup in her bottle every other day or so, that's also an option... Just do a couple enemas, maybe one after each meal...until you see normal baby poop. 

Do a Google image search for "normal baby goat poop"... And you'll find pics of what it should look like, if you don't already know... It's usually yellowish, and sorta like mushed together berries. It won't be typical brown berries until she's eating solids. It shouldn't be dry or hard, for sure. 

That's my :2cents: Hope that helps...


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## FascinatingLady (Mar 6, 2016)

What does a hunched goat look like?


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## Sara+pumpkin (Jul 21, 2015)

where can you get MOM?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Milk Of Magnesia. You get it at Walmart or any pharmacy or grocery store.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

FascinatingLady said:


> What does a hunched goat look like?


A hunched goat will stand with all its legs close together and arch it's back up and have the tail tucked. It's usually a sign of an upset belly. I will try and find a good picture for you.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Also, I gave one more enema tonight no more hard or dry poo looks like normal baby goat poo. However I have yet to see her go by herself. Do I need to stimulate her?


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

FascinatingLady said:


> What does a hunched goat look like?


Basically, standing with front and back feet close together, back arched upward, and often (not always) head hung sorta low...

This posture:










This is a lamb but it's the same: 









Adults can stand hunched up too...

At any age it generally means they are feeling poorly... Most often from gut pain... Or being feverish.... More or less, it typically means they aren't feeling quite as well as they could.

Note: These images were found on Google... They are not my animals, and I don't know the owners... They were just good examples of "hunching"...


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## Sara+pumpkin (Jul 21, 2015)

PLEASE HELP!!! I don't know of anyone is familiar with baby chicks but I have one that is looking like its dying and I need help!! it just lays in the corner and gets trampled and now it is just falling over, I have her inside, she is chirping but won't open her eyes. she also is a lot smaller then the others. I tried to give her some water and she took it, but looked as if she was trying to throw up after. she's just laying on the ground Chirping and not moving. she is about a week old.


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

Olliehaven said:


> Also, I gave one more enema tonight no more hard or dry poo looks like normal baby goat poo. However I have yet to see her go by herself. Do I need to stimulate her?


:clap: Yay!
Yes, I'm a weirdo who cheers for normal goat poop...

Anyway... Here's the thread by Dayna that shows what she had to go thru with her constipated kid.... She had to do a lot of enemas before the kid was going on her own... Start around post #110 I think....
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/kid-down-need-advice-172081/index3.html

As far as stimulating, kids aren't really like puppies or kittens... They shouldn't need to be stimulated... if that's what you're thinking...
But sometimes bottle babies just tend to be more constipation-prone... They do outgrow it. I wonder if it's that a doe's milk has a little colostrum in it for a couple weeks, and colostrum is a natural laxative... then by the time they're getting colostrum-free milk, they are eating at least a wee bit of grain and hay... So the fiber from that starts moving things along from then on... I don't really know, but that's my working theory, anyway.

I think there's lots of tricks to make up for it though.... Just go with whatever feels right to you. All you can do is try something and if it doesn't work try something else. She'll be right as rain before you know it.

Milk of Magnesia can be found in any pharmacy, or grocery store in the section with the antacids and laxatives... For humans, it is used as both. It is in a bright blue bottle. You probably won't want to use it for more than a few days, though. If she needs something longer than that... Or if you just want to go with something gentler, pick the corn syrup, or even the Colace.


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

Sara+pumpkin said:


> PLEASE HELP!!! I don't know of anyone is familiar with baby chicks but I have one that is looking like its dying and I need help!! it just lays in the corner and gets trampled and now it is just falling over, I have her inside, she is chirping but won't open her eyes. she also is a lot smaller then the others. I tried to give her some water and she took it, but looked as if she was trying to throw up after. she's just laying on the ground Chirping and not moving. she is about a week old.


Try posting this on the chickens and poultry sub forum:
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f227/

I think you'll get better response cuz no ones gonna think to look here for a new question about a chick....

ray:


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## Sara+pumpkin (Jul 21, 2015)

thank you


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## FascinatingLady (Mar 6, 2016)

I think an enema is what a couple of my goats needed. I got them yesterday and when I came to check this morning one was just hunched in the corner and didn't come out. It did eat well when I brought it over and offered it the bottle. Two of them kept hunching in the corner with head lowered half the day so I gave an enema and got them both to poop. I brought them into the living area after feeding them and kept them there all afternoon and neither one seemed to be pooping. Hopefully they get better soon and can run around all day like cute little kids.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

FascinatingLady said:


> I think an enema is what a couple of my goats needed. I got them yesterday and when I came to check this morning one was just hunched in the corner and didn't come out. It did eat well when I brought it over and offered it the bottle. Two of them kept hunching in the corner with head lowered half the day so I gave an enema and got them both to poop. I brought them into the living area after feeding them and kept them there all afternoon and neither one seemed to be pooping. Hopefully they get better soon and can run around all day like cute little kids.


Have they had cocci treatments? Lid color good? Poops are normal?


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## Aprilszoo (Mar 31, 2014)

FascinatingLady said:


> I think an enema is what a couple of my goats needed. I got them yesterday and when I came to check this morning one was just hunched in the corner and didn't come out. It did eat well when I brought it over and offered it the bottle. Two of them kept hunching in the corner with head lowered half the day so I gave an enema and got them both to poop. I brought them into the living area after feeding them and kept them there all afternoon and neither one seemed to be pooping. Hopefully they get better soon and can run around all day like cute little kids.


How old are they? Have you taken their temp? (101.5-103.5 is normal) 
They may need more than one enema, and they may need some karo syrup or something added to one bottle a day, to keep things moving... See my posts above for some ideas...

If they've got good poops now, but they are still hunched with droopy heads, then they are feeling icky and you'll need to be a detective to figure out why...

*Start your own thread with the following info: *

Breed and age of the kids?
What you are feeding them, and how much, and how often?
Temperature?
What meds you've given? Shots? Enemas? Etc?
All the current symptoms that concern you, and any other info you think might be relevant....

Starting your own topic will get more people to see your question and get more help for your babies...


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