# Polled. To breed or not.to.breed?



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

I have been out of goats for 2 decades. I am thinking about getting back into them. Using the Internet, I am amazed at what is out there. I am planning on buying 2 Obee. Does and breed to an ND later. I found a gorgeous ND with deep Chamoisee Colorado, but he is naturally polled. In my day, it was a huge no no to breed anything polled. Have times changed or is it the nature of the breed?


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Color. Danged autocorrect


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

As long as you breed him to a horned or disbudded doe, it's fine. If you breed polled to polled, a certain birth defect (hermaphrodism [sp?]) that is carried on some polled lines will _sometimes_ show up - but not always.
There have been times in history when polled was considered a no-no for that reason, but polled is completely accepted now - at least in the U.S. registries and shows, as far as I know.
I happen to love polled goats - no disbudding!


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I ditto what milkmaid said :thumb: I'm hoping to have a polled buck someday to breed to my naturally horned (but disbudded) does. Less disbudding for me, HUGE plus. Someday I would LOVE to breed out the hermaphrodite gene -- some herds have done it.


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Go Woodhaven! That was my dream before the challenge of curing Johne's disease fell in my lap!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Polled is a good thing now.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Polled goats are pretty well accepted in the goat community now, however, there are still some out there that dislike polled animals...because they fear the hermaphrodite offspring. I personally have not found enough research to make me believe polled goats throw more hermaphrodite offspring than horned. I've also never had a hermaphrodite from my polled goats...though I only have a few in my herd. But again, for the most part...people like polled goats. That would be totally up to you if you wanted to go with polled goats or not. There are upsides for sure to having polled vs. horned/disbudded, but there is also the downside when it comes to sales because there are still some people out there who won't buy polled.


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Well. That's good to know. Especially for my needs. So now my criteria for a buckling. 
Dark red chamoisee. Blue eyes. ADGA and NDGA reg. and polled. How difficult will it be for me to find one like this is Florida?


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Any ADGA reg. Nigerian dwarf can be re-registered with NDGA.
I'm sure there are bucks like that here and there, but I'm not sure about Florida. I would bookmark breeders' websites and keep watching. I hope you can find him - dark chamoise and blue eyes would be a very pretty combination!


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks. I know a lot of kids are hitting the ground. It seems to me tha ND are the flowers of the goats. They come in so many pretty colors. It's just a matter of time before I find the one I am looking for. I am very patient.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

whats your purpose for breeding Obers to a nigerian dwarf? if its to get mini obers then you DO NOT want blue eyes as they are frowned upon in the mini dairy breed world.

check out http://www.sunbleachedgoats.com/ they are selling out and may or may not have something that fits your needs


----------



## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

WEll if you were in indiana i could help you out lol. I have a blue eyed chamoisee buck and a jr doe that is polled i will be breeding her for fall babies and this march i'm picking up a dark buckskin polled doeling that i will breed sometime next winter lol. I didn't plan it but both my bucks are blue eyed I just fell in love with what they have to offer and they just so happen to be blue eyed. AS for my girls same with being polled that wasn't a requirement it was just an added bonus.


----------



## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

In Aus.polled Dairy goats are quite acceptable BUT! you cant breed polled to poll.You will get a kid with either the apperance of a buck and internal girl bits or the other way round apperance of a doe(tiny weenie teats)with internal testes.A friend of mine just had a shim?(she- him)put in the freezer and on looking at a photo thought it was odd looking anyway.I dont know of anyone here who has ever bred polls sucessfuly,but gee it would be wonderful not to have to disbud,Teejae


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

TeeJae there is someone who has had a polled herd of saanens for years, cant remember who it was dont think they are a DGSA member. You dont always get an intersex kid, I think they say the chances are 1/8 if you breed polled to polled. 

To be honest I have heard of enough people, most on this board but also a few in Australia, who have bred polled to polled for years without any problems. I have also seen intersex kids from horned to horned parents. SO all that makes me think that I am not scared to breed polled to polled. I have 1 polled doe and would not hesitate to put her to a polled buck but I simply cannot find one. polled goats in general are rare as hens teeth in WA


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I very much agree with keren.

It's untrue that you'd be guaranteed a hermaphrodite with a polled x polled breeding. Like keren said, there are some breeders out there who've been doing it for years without having any hermaphrodites.


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Is polled a dominant trait like blue eyes?


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Yep. Polled is dominant, not recessive. :thumb:


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Thank you.


----------



## Queensbury (Feb 3, 2013)

I had 6 polled Australian miniature goats kid this season that produced 11 kids and not one was a poll, father was not a poll. Question, I was told that most polled bucks are sterile, true or untrue !!!!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

not true at all


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree with Stacey, not true! My aunt has polled bucks, they are very fertile :laugh:


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

I have since spoken to some reputable breeders. A few that breed polled goats. Many ND breeders breed for the polled trait. According to some, it is a crapshoot. You may breed for it, but it doesn't always show up I the kids


----------



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Polled is a dominant trait. So theoretically, if you breed a polled goat [that has one horned parent, as most do] to a horned goat, 1/2 of the kids will be polled, the other 1/2 horned. Of course it doesn't always work out exactly 50/50.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

each kid has a 50/50 chance of being polled when breeding polled to horned. So you can get all polled or non or one polled and another horned or one polled adn two horned. etc.


----------



## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

Polled bucks are very fertile! Ive read that if a polled to poll buck is the offspring of that breeding and has all the buck bits it will only be 30% fertile?So if it works out fantastic!!
Ive also heard the "rumors" in Australia about breeding polled Saanens? but nobody seems to know where? in Aus.I know one DGSA member in Qld who has a number of polled Saanens.

Why isnt blue eyes acceptable in Mini's? Its acceptable in Anglo Nubians here,Ive seen a recent born Nubian buck kid with one blue eye,beautiful,Teejae


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Blue eyes are not an acceptable trait in most breeds...depending on the registry. Blue eyes in oberhaslis would be a disqualification, therefore mini oberhaslis should not be blue eyed as well.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Its not a rumor, I've chatted with the gentleman and seen photos of the stock, unfortunately I lost contact with him, it was over an old forum that closed down 4 or 5 yrs ago. I'm trying to chase down the guys details to pass on to you


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have never read that polled bred to polled create a sex combo goat..what I have read is the trait that causes polled is also the trait that determines fertility. so breeding polled to polled could cause infertile kids, and a polled goat throws polled 50% of the time. I had a polled lamancha who always gave one horned and one polled kid ..she was always bred to a horned buck. Her polled buck kid produces polled 50% of time as well.....also polled is not natural so in essence a flaw..Not that I have anything against polled...just what I have read...: ) any thoughts?


----------



## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

I have a polled doe who has kidded twice. Twins both times. A set of bucklings and a set of doelings. She was bred to our horned buck, and all of her babies thus far had horns and are fertile. Both her girls are currently pregnant, and her boys went to other farms and have been very successful breeding. I have heard that breeding polled to polled will make the babies grow big and are hard for the doe to deliver. I don't know if this is true or not.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using GoatSpot


----------



## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

We bred our polled buck to 8 does-- 5 have kidded so far 6 healthy normal babies. 2 bucks 5 does. 2 horned 5 polled. My boy isn't sterile ;-)

Any goat can be born sterile just like any human can. And any goat from any breeding CAN produce a hermaphrodite kid. It is a twist in the genetic code. A horned x horned breeding can produce sterile or hermie kids but somehow Polled genetics take all the blame.

If you would like to see a REAL database of polled breedings and the results please join the Yahoo group "Polled Goat Genetics" I guarantee you will learn a LOT. We do not currently breed polled x polled, but we're having great success with our polled buck and plan to add several polled does this year along with a second polled buckling. 

WA isn't that far by plane ;-) and we can ship 2 babies in one crate!


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

critergiter09 said:


> I have heard that breeding polled to polled will make the babies grow big and are hard for the doe to deliver.


Nope.

Funny the things people say. I had someone tell me polled goats produce more milk. Then I had someone tell me horned goats give more milk if you dont disbud them.


----------



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I suppose you could create an issue if you bred the horned gene out but unless you inbred all the time I don't think its possible. By inbreeding I mean polled brother to polled sister. Any out breeding would have the horned gene somewhere in the makeup.


----------



## dixiegirl3179 (Jan 20, 2010)

Bluere11e said:


> Well. That's good to know. Especially for my needs. So now my criteria for a buckling.
> Dark red chamoisee. Blue eyes. ADGA and NDGA reg. and polled. How difficult will it be for me to find one like this is Florida?


Where in Florida are you? I know of several breeders around the state. Don't know if they'll have exactly what you are looking for, but it is kidding season right now so there should be lots of babies available. Show season is also about to start...go to FDGA.com for a schedule. Most of them are at Pasco County Fairgrounds..if that's close to you maybe you can stop by. I am in North Florida and I have babies due in a couple months, the father is chamoisee, so there may be a chamoisee buckling, but it won't be blue eyed, polled or NDGA registered (though you can get it registered with them with it's ADGA papers).


----------



## mdlopez (Feb 4, 2013)

I have 2 polled blue-eyed bucks. When I purchased the first one and saw that his parents were both polled (he was already a proven sire) I dug deeper. Also, I knew that Anna of Camanna's Petite Paradise (the breeder of my 1st buck) knows what she's doing! What I found was that when you do breed polled to polled, they should each have had one parent with horns. I believe this makes them heterozygous (sp?). So, for example, my doeling who was sired by my first buck and came out polled can be bred to my second buck because the doeling had a mother with horns and the 2nd buck had one parent with horns. They are both polled but each has a parent with horns.


----------



## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

dixiegirl3179 said:


> Where in Florida are you? I know of several breeders around the state. Don't know if they'll have exactly what you are looking for, but it is kidding season right now so there should be lots of babies available. Show season is also about to start...go to FDGA.com for a schedule. Most of them are at Pasco County Fairgrounds..if that's close to you maybe you can stop by. I am in North Florida and I have babies due in a couple months, the father is chamoisee, so there may be a chamoisee buckling, but it won't be blue eyed, polled or NDGA registered (though you can get it registered with them with it's ADGA papers).


I'm in South Florida. But. I Found a contact. I just have a little wait ahead of me. For the right goats. I'll wait a long time if I have to. Thanks si much.


----------

