# Hot Shots - Cattle Prods



## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

When my husband goes in to feed (or catch for foot trimming) one of our bucks, the buck has begun to strongly rub his head on my husband and even push at times. Before this behaviour escalates I've been looking at cattle prods advertised as suitable for goats - 4000V. I'm just wondering how that 4000V compares with your hotshots in the US?

When 'shocked', will this buck back off and not attempt to go for my husband - he and I are both old enough to be no longer as sprightly as we once were !! The reason for this question is also that we once had a horse who when he came up against an electric fence, instead of backing off like a normal horse, he'd just keep going forward, pulling up great lengths of the fence. The last thing we need is for this buck, when 'shocked', getting really angry and going for my husband instead of backing off.

Thanks for any info,

camooweal


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I can't speak for your goat, but my hotshot (or whatever brand name it is) has a 3' reach. My bucks jump back and away. None have ever come forward. However, once, as they all (11) were near me, one came forward, I said NO, he did his aggression head movement, I zapped him, he jumped back and to the side, pushing a buck against me. (I was bringing in hay at the time) That was the only time I ever had a problem with them.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Thank you, Goats Rock. I was looking at hand-held but shall look at something like you have with a 3 foot reach. He's not a bad-tempered feller by any means but has done a number of years extensive stud duty and has now come to us where we only join three or four a year. He just needs to realise that while he is stronger, he's certainly not going to be the boss. 

camooweal


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

My bucks are not mean, but, they are bucks and one should never trust a buck. Especially in rut. I just choose to be cautious. I am a one person army with my herd. (150+ all the new kids). If I got hurt, there would be no one to care for them. So I try to be as safe as my clutzy self can be!


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

<<<one should never trust a buck>>>

I often recall a line from Pat Coleby's book, Natural Goat Care, which says something like "Bucks, like all entire males, are peculiarly tempered". I include the human male in that line so whenever my husband (of 52 and a half years) talks of females being temperamental, I quote him that 
line !!

150 plus! Stay safe!

camooweal


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> My bucks are not mean, but, they are bucks and one should never trust a buck. Especially in rut. I just choose to be cautious. I am a one person army with my herd. (150+ all the new kids). If I got hurt, there would be no one to care for them. So I try to be as safe as my clutzy self can be!


Can I ask how you establish dominance? I was raised with dogs and things like eye contact body posture etc are all kinda second nature to me.

I'll never forget the look on both my wife's and my dogs face one time. He was a puppy and I was intentionally roughing him up and messing with his mouth while he was eating. He, as expected, growled at me and I promptly flipped him on his back and bit his neck and held him there till he gave up(and yep I was spitting fur for a few days). I've been pack leader ever since and my 2 year old could take food out of his mouth if I let her.

But goats and dogs are totally different pack set ups. And I cant see myself going around head butting them until they decide I'm herd alpha

Any tips for how you let them know you lead?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Flip them. I mean grab a front leg and the opposite back leg and flip them, then sit on their neck and hold the head down, making sure the body or legs don't hurt you. (Course, you don't want to hurt them, but after a few flips, they tend to view you as dominant). 

This has to happen when they are aggressive to you, either by actual head contact, (not good) or the rearing up and ears back like they do when they get ready to bash their buddy. Yell NO, then flip. Lean into him to knock him off balance. 

Now, big giant bucks and small stature adults, it is doable, but, the person has to be careful to not get themselves hurt . 

I think a hot shot is easier!


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## daisysmaid (Jun 21, 2018)

My big Nubian buck was my very first bottle baby.....needless to say I let him do all the cute “baby” things with me that once he became over 150+ pounds looks and feels and probably is very aggressive. The one thing that has changed our relationship is water I take a squirt bottle of water with me and that big guy turns into a major scaredy-cat lol lol. There have even been times where I was milking a doe close to his fence where he was trying to reach through and mess with the girls, so I would squirt milk at his face!!! Not an issue anymore lol unless I allow him he will keep about a 5’ distance between us good luck finding out what works for you all and stay safe no matter what you have to do!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, the longer prod helps. 
They usually run away and not want to approach you, especially if you have it in hand. 
With some, you may have to zap them twice. 
Always make sure it is fully charged.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

How do they know when the battery is dead or low? This is a mystery to me!


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

<<<How do they know when the battery is dead or low? This is a mystery to me!>>>

We decided the horses were going to the battery unit, listening to find out if it was ticking and thus working. No ticking, no worries! The one I mentioned earlier though, he'd go through a 'live' fence and take no notice of it.

The first time we used the electric fence on some kids who were going where they shouldn't, they waltzed up to the fence, had a sniff, got a good belt then wheeled around and ran as fast as they could back to their mothers, yelling and yelling!

camooweal


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

<<<Yep, the longer prod helps.>>>

I was looking at some that were small and held in your hand which means this buck would be right alongside my husband when zapped however I'm now looking at some that are two and three feet long, much better.

camooweal


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Curious how you can establish dominance without making them afraid of you? I don't want my goats afraid of me, but I am tired of getting trampled when I bring in the feed. My goats are not aggressive twords me, but think nothing of charging me when I have food.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

lhorning said:


> Curious how you can establish dominance without making them afraid of you? I don't want my goats afraid of me, but I am tired of getting trampled when I bring in the feed. My goats are not aggressive twords me, but think nothing of charging me when I have food.


I'm hard on my goats. However, I always say that if you're gonna get physical with animals, each smack, swat, etc. has to be balanced out with at least 6 times as much gentle petting, etc. so that they don't start to fear you. More flighty animals will start flinching at sudden movements, but they are still tame and friendly, and not scared of me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you press the button and listen, when you have a new battery in there, you will here it is strong. 
When weak, the sound is less and less.

The way I first did it, is, I was on the other side of the fence, when he started acting caulky, I zapped him through the fence to see his reaction. He ran away, at the same time, I said "Quite" to associate the word with the gesture. So, when I said it he would respond to that too.
After I did that, I went into the pen with the Zapper and he, got a bit caulky again, I zapped him. 
After that, he said no way. 
A different time, if I had it in hand, he would keep his distance and respect my space. 

For the girls mugging us, when we bring in feed that is normal, they do get excited for it. I have been knocked down from them wanting the grain and splat, the grain flew all over. You can try carrying a squirt bottle. I wouldn't zap my girls with the prod, especially being preggo.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a big open pen with 27 does in it. All preggo. They also have a smaller area inside the barn. (Big old cow bank barn). I feed them in a 10' polypropylene short legged feed bunk. (TSC sells them) 

I carry a 5 gal. bucket with a lid on it full of grain and the cattle prod out to the bunk. They all stay away from me as I rapidly pour grain into the bunk. They all have learned the prod hurts, so, they stay back.

I hated using it at first, but only a quick zap and they learn fast. (Does). Now I am not getting mobbed. I used to dred feeding this group. 27 carnivorous, starving (even though they have hay in front of them all day) food crazed does.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Thanks all! Love the idea of putting a lid on the bucket and a squirt bottle, that might help. With the boys, I had to feed over the fence. The are incredibly sweet and respectful any other time. The girls still mob and I want my daughter to be able to help more without getting hurt. We'll give these ideas a try!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

They won’t be scared of you. They will be scared of the hot shot though and when it’s in your hands they will act totally different! You are not abusing them. They are not getting beat and zapped or anything equally “mean” every time they see you so they are not going to be scared of you. Just keep loving on them like usual when you are not feeding them and having to use the hot shot. 
And you are right! You need to be able to feed them and not be harmed. The day before I invested in my hotshot I was home alone and I was feeding them and they knocked me down and stomped the crud out of me because the bucket fell right next to me. This was 10 years ago, my bones were still rubber (lol) so I was fine but if they had seriously hurt me it would have been bad! I am usually always by myself. And as much as I love my goats if I croak or am seriously broken they would have to leave and they just possibly would not have as good of a life. So I do not feel guilty about doing what I have to do to keep myself and ultimately them safe.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

:up:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:up:


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

For my buck, flipping him doesn’t work nearly as well as dumping the 5 gallon water bowl over his head.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> They won't be scared of you. They will be scared of the hot shot though and when it's in your hands they will act totally different! You are not abusing them. They are not getting beat and zapped or anything equally "mean" every time they see you so they are not going to be scared of you. Just keep loving on them like usual when you are not feeding them and having to use the hot shot.
> And you are right! You need to be able to feed them and not be harmed. The day before I invested in my hotshot I was home alone and I was feeding them and they knocked me down and stomped the crud out of me because the bucket fell right next to me. This was 10 years ago, my bones were still rubber (lol) so I was fine but if they had seriously hurt me it would have been bad! I am usually always by myself. And as much as I love my goats if I croak or am seriously broken they would have to leave and they just possibly would not have as good of a life. So I do not feel guilty about doing what I have to do to keep myself and ultimately them safe.


I'm so glad to know that @Jessica84


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Jessica is correct! I use a hot shot on my billy once and when he sees it, he gives me a wide space between us. One of my does was a little pushy and got hard headed. One zap with the hot shot and she got in line. If she sees the hot shot in my hand she will stay clear of me, if I don't have the hot shot then both she and he act normally. So a 3 ft long hot shot will solve any problems of aggression or pushiness you may have.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I didn't realize that when I had the hotshot, I usually carried in the grain bucket and a pitchfork (to toss wasted hay into the center for bedding). Now, they associate a slight zap with the pitchfork. (Does, bucks only recognize the hot shot). So, carrying anything stick like and I don't get mugged, usually!


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