# need advice with chronic scours



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

I bought two one-year-old nubian sisters this winter - one, against the advice of the breeder - I didn't want to leave her behind. This one had scours since birth, and I was so hopeful I would be able to get her well.

Her poops are more like cow patties - liquid messes on the ground, and everywhere for that matter. Brown in color. Yesterday when I was cleaning out the barn, I scooped one bit that appeared to have red blood in it. I haven't seen any more of that, though I have been looking.

We have had fecals done, and her worm and cocci counts are so low that the vet did not advise that we treat her. In spite of her coming from a clean herd, we have done Johne's testing, and confirmed that she is negative. The vet even knocked her out with drugs, and checked her molars to make sure she wasn't having chewing problems. He leveled one out with the others, just in case. We have tried taking her off grain for a couple of weeks. No change.

She has a fine appetite, and while she looks a little thin to me, the vet said that she is not excessively thin. She has pasture to nibble at all day, grass hay, clean water, and Hoegger's golden minerals in the barn.

Any ideas? I've been searching the internet for help. It seems that someone must have experienced this before...


----------



## LuvmyGoaties (Mar 9, 2010)

I would try a couple things, one, I would give her some pumpkin, canned is fine but you want plain pumpkin, NOT Pumpkin pie filling which has spices mixed in.

Also, Slippery Elm is great for digestive issues, it helps rebuild the mucus lining of the digestive tract. It is even better mixed with Aloe Juice. I would mix 1 Tablespoon of slippery elm powder with 1/4 cup of Aloe juice - it will make a slimy gel and you can syringe it into her mouth 2-3 times a day for a couple weeks, see if you see any improvement, if so keep doing it for 12 weeks and it will totally rebuild the lining of the stomach and intestines.


----------



## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I would also try some probiotics. I mean, at this point, it can't hurt, right?


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you! I did forget to mention that she has been getting some Probios. About a dose every other week. How frequently can I give her the probiotics?

I'll try the pumpkin, slippery elm, and aloe. I'm so hopeful for something to get her healed up! Do your goats like to eat the pumpkin, or do you need to help them get it down?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

could be bacteria diarrah...Neomycin is a good medication for that..its a three day treatment then use probiotics to restore flora...I would recheck for cocci in several different samples...cocci shed eggs in cycles to if you bring a sample that is shed free the count willbe low...do samples 2-3 days apart maybe three or four..that should give you good growund work to be sure. A low count could still be a problem in some goats..too low for a vet to recommend treatment but high enough to cause problems inher digestive system...for treatment of cocci I recommend using Baycox ordered from horseprerace.com...2 treatments 10 days apart....


----------



## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't really know the dosage of probiotics...hopefully someone else will chime in about dosage. I usually give my goats kefir. or put some organic apple cider vinegar in their water.

my girls will eat pumpkin no problem...I've read some eat it raw! they may sniff at it suspiciously, but i'm sure she'll eat it!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The seeds are great de wormers too..not surehow much they would need to be effective


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you everybody! I'll get started on these ideas, and will hopefully have some good news to share in the coming months!


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Ingrid said:


> Thank you! I did forget to mention that she has been getting some Probios. About a dose every other week. How frequently can I give her the probiotics??


Twice a day every day if you wanted to. Have you not tried cocci treatment at all because your vet said to not treat? I believe in listening to your vet, especially one game enough to check one's molars, but if she's not getting better, I would try a course of sulfa drugs. If that didn't work I would try the neomycin. Have you ever given her some Pepto Bismol? I know you did it right and consulted the vet, but these things work too often not to try. 
ETA.. I just re-read and remembered they are a year old. I still think I would try this. Not that the other advise given wasn't good, but usually we go to the other things after we've tried the "usual" and it didn't work.


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

I did try giving her one dosage of Kao-Pec last month. I think that is the equivalent of Pepto. The dose seemed so huge to be putting into her - 3 to 4 oz., which to my calculation is 6 to 8 tablespoons! She didn't like it, I didn't see any immediate improvement, and as I kept reading, I saw someone's advice to "not run for the Pepto," etc, but to rather get to the root of the problem. So, I didn't give her any more doses.

Can you recommend a sulfa drug that you have used? I see that Sulmet is on indefinite backorder. I am looking at the Di-Methox on Hoegger supply. 

Thank you!


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Dimethox will work if you figure out the right dosage. I use the 40% injectable Dimethox given orally. Only 1cc/16lbs. 1X/day.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

On pepto....you can use pepto..it is safe but do gt the brand name pepto..not generic..: )


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you, all! I'll place some orders and see what we can do to get Daphne healed up!


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

You have lots of great leads to follow. If all else fails, you could try testing for giardia. My vet had a doe that never had a normal stool in years. Someone suggested testing for giardia -- the test was positive and after treatment the doe's stools were normal. Giardia may not show up on a regular parasite panel -- an ELISA test is more sensitive.
Found an interesting article on specific probiotics for specific parasites in various species: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jpr/2011/610769/ 
For humans, it lists Saccharromyces Boulardii as being helpful for IBS after antibiotic treatment for giardia. I'm pretty sure it is not in Probios, although Probios does have other probiotics in it that are mentioned in the article. Don't know if it would work in goats, but it might be worth a try.
I'm sure you'll get it all figured out. Lucky goat!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks for that glndg...see this is why I love this sight...that is two new things I saw today to look up and learn about : )


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Crypto is another one you could test for. Both Crypto and Giardia are separate tests and would cost extra. I know I used to pay $50 each when I had to have those tests done. You could also test for salmonella.


----------



## lizzyslittlegoatfarm (Jan 20, 2013)

When my goat got the scours I used Kaopectate, Pepto, and I use baking soda and water but make sure it is more Baking Soda than water. This should help. Hope this helps and probios should also help. You should be able to get many kinds of probios and give one kind of probio in the morning and one probio of the different kind. Hope this helps and have a great day. Thanks, lizzyslittlegoatfarm.


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Ooh... good ideas. Also, it's cheaper to do the ELISA for giardia as an "add on" to the regular fecal test than to order it separately (here at least.) It might be cheaper to add on Crypto or salmonella to a fecal test too, but don't know. 

When my 2 doelings arrived in January, I had to treat them for both coccidia and giardia. One had an obvious problem, but they had traveled together. We combined the fecal samples to save money and added on the giardia test just in case.


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Crypto is another one you could test for. Both Crypto and Giardia are separate tests and would cost extra. I know I used to pay $50 each when I had to have those tests done. You could also test for salmonella.


Ooh... good ideas. Also, it's cheaper to do the ELISA for giardia as an "add on" to the regular fecal test than to order it separately (here at least.) It might be cheaper to add on Crypto or salmonella to a fecal test too, but don't know.

When my 2 doelings arrived in January, I had to treat them for high levels of both coccidia and giardia. One had an obvious problem, but they had traveled together. We combined the fecal samples to save money and added on the giardia test just in case.


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you! So how are giardia and crypto and salmonella treated? Would you ever give your goat an antibiotic without a specific diagnosis, to see if that works?

I appreciate everyone's input so much! Our vet was stumped, and finally concluded our doe might just have a congenital problem, since she has been dealing with this from birth. I love the goat, but the exploratory ultrasounds and surgeries that were seemingly the next step to get to the root of the problem were more than I wanted to do for a $200 goat.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think...if she were mine and I ran out of answers and money for more test (because there needs to be a line) I would begin to treat for what it could be...I normally would not give antibiotics without fever except in cases of injury..but if all else has failed I would go for it..

I would first try a round of Neomycin..a safe oral antibiotic...if after three days I saw no improvement..I would give her rest with some probios to restore her flora
Giardia is treated with white wormer such as Valbazen...There is no none cure or treatment for crypto...this is usually found in very young kids under 2 months of age..Salmonella is another that usually attacks the young but some adults get it as well...but she would be very ill from both of these problems..here is a link that addresses these and other causes of scours...hopefully you can find a match for what your gal is going through ...
http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=185&Itemid=1#.UaUSs2SDQxc


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm a newbie to this, so I just did what the goat vet told me to do. My vet thought that there might be some resistance issues because my doe was treated for cocci before she was shipped. She had me give safe-guard goat dewormer (fenbendazole suspension 10%) for 5 days at 10 times the regular dosage amount.) happy bleats said another med works too.
I don't know what meds are used for Crpto or salmonella, but they could be very different.
I'd be cautious using safe-guard on a goat already very sick if you don't know for sure that it has giardia because it would be hard to tell if the goat was getting sicker because of a reaction to the drug itself. I was told to stop the safe-guard if the goats began acting sick.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> happy bleats said another med works too


Yes..Valbazen works too : )


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Try Biosal the vets sell it and vetserv sells it
But yes, test for giardia.
Or try feeding blackberry root tea. Raw tea, nothing but boiled blackberry roots in water.


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you, everybody, for all of the help and suggestions. I'll let you know how things go!


----------



## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I use psyllium for loose feces. I mix it in their grain and it soaks up the excess moisture in the digestive tract. It is the main ingredient in metamucil or the generic versions. It can be used for both purposes-to make poop or to stop loose poop. I use it in kid bottles for babies, my dogs get it when they have eaten something they shouldn't and I even use it if I have a "runny" problem.

You can get the pure psyllium in health food stores.


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you! OK, I have been giving pumpkin and the slippery elm with aloe juice for a couple of weeks now. This was effective at first in getting her poops to look a little more like dog poops, but still no "berry" shape at all to anything coming out. I was hoping this nice, natural, and locally purchased solution would solve things ... Now things are looking looser again, and I thought I would give the Dimethox (that has now arrived, thank goodness) a try. Tenacross (or anyone that knows), how many days do you dose orally with the 40% injectible Dimethox?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dose for five days


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

1cc per 5 lbs the first day and 1cc per 10 lbs days 2-5. Give it orally.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If the sulfa drug does not help after five days..I would give her some rest with some probios...then treat with Neomycin...again, its a oral antibiotic for ecoli and other gut related bacteria ...dose for three days...then again rest her with Probios..
See if you cant find Pepto....the real stuff not generic...it will at the very least sooth her tummy...keep her hydrated as well....

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses(or what ever molasses you have or honey)
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you


----------



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you, all!


----------

