# Goat Team's First Drive!



## Damfino

It's been a rather long haul, but I finally have harnesses that fit and this week I put together a proper pole and doubletree for my wagon! We had our first drive yesterday afternoon and the boys were incredible! They behaved almost perfectly with very little guidance from a ground person. 









Finn is slightly dominant and likes to walk out front. This meant he got tired toward the end from pulling more than his share of the load. I think it won't take Finn long to figure out that it's better to let Sputnik come up next to him so he can do some of the work too.









I think these guys are going to be a very impressive team next year when they are full grown. Right now they are only two years old.


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## SalteyLove

Congratulations! You've obviously done great training and they are very beautiful animals as well.


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## ksalvagno

That is great!


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## groovyoldlady

That. Is. AWESOME!


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## Serenity Woods

I am very impressed!


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## Damfino

Thanks everyone! I'm very impressed too. I went for another drive today (by myself this time--hubby had to be in a meeting), and the boys were even better-behaved than yesterday! They act like they've been doing this for weeks, not two days! Couldn't be more pleased with them!


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## Bree_6293

Would love to learn how you have trained them! They look very happy and relaxed  it is amazing and would love to give my big wether a job might even convince my partner to keep another wether haha


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## GodsGarden

So cool! I so much want to learn all about driving goats!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Wow! Cool! So neat! I'm very impressed, good job! They look so calm and relaxed. Love the harness!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

It looks great! Where did you get your harnesses?


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## Damfino

Thanks for the compliments everyone. I couldn't be more pleased! Suzanne, I got the harnesses from Chimacum Tack. They were a custom order. They are beta biothane. I will be training the boys to bits soon, but until those come in I'm using Sopris X halters from Sopris Unlimited.

To the others who asked how I trained them, I have a background in training horses and spent two summers operating a commercial horse carriage. I never had driving lessons because I lived too remotely at that time, but I bought an excellent book called "A Teamster's View" by Steve Bowers and basically taught myself to harness, hitch, and drive my saddle horses so I could make income off of them during the tourist season. Unfortunately I believe the book is out of print, but I highly recommend to anyone who wants to drive goats to make sure and get a good horse/pony driving book or two and/or take driving lessons. The principles are the same, but I see a lot of mistakes made in both harnessing and hitching among goat drivers. Often I see ill-fitting harnesses, ill-fitting carts, no whiffletrees, pulling by the saddle instead of the breastcollar, etc. It pays to get some instruction even if only from a good book!

With the goats, I've spent the last two years working with them on a regular basis. I've taken them hiking with me since before they were weaned, and I've been training them to do tricks since that time as well. I fitted halters to them at six months and taught them how to lead and tie and stand still when I say "Whoa!". I've also spent a good deal of time teaching them to do various tricks. Trick training teaches an animal to tune into your voice and listen for commands. It also helps them "learn how to learn" so that new commands come quicker and easier over time. This foundation helps them stay calm and listen when I say "Walk on," "Trot," and "Whoa". Even if they don't know what the words mean at first, they learn very quickly because they have been taught to listen and to figure things out.

They are also familiar with the whip. I first used it to teach them to get up on a stool and stay there. When they would start to come down without permission I would smack the whip hard on the ground and scare them right back up onto it. I have never let them play with the whip, and any time I've shaken it at them or smacked the ground near them, I expect them to move away immediately. If they don't move away I give them a good sharp smack on the leg until they do. I don't like having to smack an animal with a whip, so it's best if they learn early to respect it and move away when it is directed at them. I don't want them to be so terrified of the whip that they shy away if it drops or wiggles, and I never want them to move back from me just because I have a whip in my hand, but this is where trust comes in. I don't beat the goats or smack them unfairly with the whip, so they trust that I will only use it to get a response, not because I'm angry or frustrated. Sometimes I see people use a whip only in anger (makes the animal afraid of it and distrustful of the person), or they *****foot around and try to make the animal completely comfortable with the whip to the point that it's totally useless (this makes the animal disrespectful not only of the whip but of the person handling it as well). Good whip-handling skills are important because the whip is your best communication tool for driving.

I started the boys with a little bit of pulling last winter when they were about 18 months old. I had them take turns hauling water to our troughs on a sled when the hoses froze. I didn't drive them, but I got them used to the feel of pulling deadweight as I led them. We did almost no ground driving before our first hitch-up the other day. I tried it once and it was frustrating for all of us. The goats wanted to face me, and with no yoke, pole, or traces to keep them in line they kept turning, tangling, and getting confused. Frustration and confusion being the biggest enemies to learning, I immediately abandoned the idea of ground driving them and just waited until we had our wagon ready. Once the boys were hitched to the wagon with no choice but to face away from the driver, they quickly figured out what we wanted and were happy to comply. But without that solid background of halter training, respect, trust, and learning skills, I think our first drive would have been very different. It also helps if your goat craves food treats.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

What is a whiffletree? :? Lol

I have been thinking about making my own harnesses, a strap around the brisket (padded) going along the sides to the rump with a strap around the rear legs, a strap holding that up just below the withers and another just under the rump, and straps holding it down behind the front legs and just before the back legs..... I'm probably missing something important, any suggestions? 

Oh a d I was going to use 1 inch webbing for everything except the brisket and back leg straps, those were going to be 1 1/2 inch, with felt as padding on the 1 1/2 inch webbing. Would that be okay? Should I do different sizes and or do it in different places? 

How did you make the wooden things that attach to the harness? How did you attatch them to the cart? And the harness? 

Sorry, that's a lot of questions ::


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## lilaalil

That is so cool! I'm planning to keep a little whether next spring to train this way. I doubt I'll have the time to do nearly as good a job as you in the training department, so I will probably just train him to be led by someone on the ground and pull a wagon that way for my kids. My kids won't be old enough at that time to drive properly anyway. If they are interested, they can help me train a driving team when they are older


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## Damfino

Suzanne, a whiffletree is also called a singletree or swingletree (swingletree is the most appropriately descriptive name). It is a rod attached to the vehicle that is set on a pivot. The traces (which attach to the breastcollar) are hooked to the ends of the whiffletree. The whiffletree swings back and forth to accommodate shoulder movement. Without a whiffletree, the breastcollar will rub the shoulders and can sore an animal very quickly.

It's difficult to envision how you intended to build your harness since you don't know the names of the parts. It sounds like you have not driven before, so I encourage you look on the internet for pictures of harnesses with parts labeled.

This website defines terms and their many variations: http://www.equineheritagemuseum.com/additional-information/a-glossary-of-harness-parts-related-terms

Here's a handout I made for a driving clinic I taught back in April:
http://www.packgoatcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?aid=2518

It's much easier for me to answer questions about harness parts and fit if you learn what they are called. I also encourage you to watch some YouTube videos on harnessing and driving horses and ponies. This will give you a basic idea of how a harness fits and functions before you try to make one. In all honesty, unless you have lots of time on your hands, I think you'll save money buying a pre-made Mini A-sized horse harness. Some harnesses made for goats are good, but some of them are not properly designed, and I suspect that the people making them have less knowledge of proper harness function than they should. A poorly designed or badly fitting harness will train your goat to be balky.

The wooden things you see in my photos are part of the wagon, not the harnesses. The pole that runs between the goats is called a team pole. It makes it possible for the goats to turn and stop the wagon. The wooden thing behind the goats is the doubletree (two whiffletrees connected by another swinging arm which is connected to the team pole). The traces from the harness are connected to the doubletree and this is how the goats pull the wagon forward. The wooden piece that runs across the front of the goats' chests is called the yoke. It hooks into the breastcollar and it holds up the team pole. It is also hooked into the britchen by a strap that runs between the goats' front legs and back to the quarter straps which attach to the britchen. The britchen is the piece of the harness that runs behind the goat's hindquarters and is used to stop the vehicle.

I made the yoke and team pole myself from parts I bought at the hardware store. I was planning to make my own doubletree, but I was lucky enough to find one for sale at a carriage shop for $39. Between cost of materials and time, I figured I'd save money buying this one pre-made. Then I made my yoke to match the length of the doubletree. If the lengths are different, it will cause your goats to walk crooked.

I hope this has been helpful and not overly confusing! There are a lot of terms to learn!


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## Damfino

Maybe in the next week or two I'll try to make some videos of harnessing, hitching, and driving, with close-ups on how parts are connected and how they should fit.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow I have a lot to learn 
So, here's how the harness I described would be...
It'd have britches and breast strap. And a neck strap, which would connect to the girth. And a hip strap, which would wrap all the way around the goat under the belly.
How would you add a third goat pulling? Two next to the wagon and one in front? How would they attach?


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## Damfino

Ok, so the neck strap does not connect to the girth. The saddle connects to the girth. The saddle should be fairly wide with a good pad since it rests on the spine, especially if you plan to use a two-wheeled cart.

The neck strap connects to the breastcollar. It's function is to hold the breastcollar up.

The hip straps should not wrap under the belly. Their function is to hold the britchen up. In a single hitch, the only strap that goes under the goat's belly is the girth.

A third goat can be added in a row with the other two goats as is seen in the Russian troika hitches. This would most easily be done using a set of shafts like you have in a single hitch, and then the other two goats would be hitched on either side of the shafts. This type of hitch requires a special type of whiffletree, properly balanced for three animals. The third goat could also be hitched in front of the other two in what is called a "unicorn hitch". In this case a whiffletree is hooked to the front of the tongue. You have to make sure your reins are carefully adjusted to the right length so that the animals all start and stop evenly together. Hitches of three animals are generally more for show than for the sake of practicality. I have not driven one before, but it would be fun to try when I get more adept at handling just one or two.


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## lilaalil

So glad you made this post. I think there is a lot more to this than I originally thought. I would love to see videos, if you ever have the time to make them. 

I was planning to breed all my full-size (Saanen, Alpine, etc) girls to a Nigerian buck this fall, and keep a buckling for a cart goat. Would a 3/4 size goat be big enough to pull one of those garden carts like you have, plus about 50lbs worth of child(ren)? I'm also wondering, since you mentioned mini horse harnesses, if I would have trouble finding a good harness to fit a 3/4 size goat. A dairy near me sells Saanen/ Boer cross bottle babies each spring; I'm wondering if one of those might be better for this. Any opinions on best breeds?


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## nicolemackenzie

I think I'd personally go with a bigger breed. Children grow fast and by the time the goat is trained and big enough to pull the kids may be too big for him.


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## lilaalil

nicolemackenzie said:


> I think I'd personally go with a bigger breed. Children grow fast and by the time the goat is trained and big enough to pull the kids may be too big for him.


I was kinda thinking that. I'm anticipating 50 lbs when the goat is 2 years old, but then, of course, the kids keep growing. If I'm going to invest in the training, gear, etc., should probably just start with a full-size goat.


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## Damfino

I usually recommend a larger goat, but I have to admit, I saw some outstanding 3/4 sized Nigerian/Alpine crosses at a working goat competition last year. They were very strong for their size. I think the Nigerian Dwarf is more similar to a meat breed than any of the other dairy goats and this added a good deal of muscle. The ones I saw had excellent conformation. I'll take a small but strong and well-built goat over a large one with weak conformation any day. However, a miniature horse harness probably would not fit. I believe a full-sized goat harness would fit a 3/4-sized goat because goat harnesses tend to run a little small on my boys once they're full-grown.

Saanen/Boer crosses can be very nice. I know several packgoat breeders who love that cross. However, they are ENORMOUS! I tend to shy away from goats that big and heavy. They're just not my personal preference and I also worry about their feet and legs not holding up as well over the long term. 

The most important thing by far is to find a goat whose personality you click with, who wants to work for you, and who is gentle with people. A lot of this is developed with training, but some goats are just plain lazy or ornery. You want one that enjoys being around people and having a job.


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## lilaalil

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. Every Nigerian mix goat I've had has been built like a little tank, and my Nubian/Nigerian cross could pull me off my feet if she really wanted to. My Saanen doe has such an awesome, sweet personality, which she also passed on to her daughter, so we'll see if she passes it on to a son. I do love giant goats too, though. Guess we'll just see how it goes; spring is still a looong way off right now.


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## Damfino

Went for our 4th drive today. The boys were excellent (more than can be said for our 3rd drive on Sunday--it was a bit of a rodeo), but I was very pleased with how they behaved today. We took some video but it will be at least this weekend before I have time to edit it and get it uploaded to the internet. In the meantime, I have a few photos of the boys in action!


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## Damfino

Here's that video I promised!


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## Retiredokjusttired

That is great Damfino! Great job to you and your boys!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

That's awesome! They do really well!


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## lilaalil

Very nice!


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## mommal

Impressive!! What a treat for the eyes... beautiful animals!


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## Damfino

Thanks for the compliments! I'm really proud of how these boys are coming out. We started breeding packgoats three years ago, and these two are from our second crop in 2014. We knew Finn (the broken cou clair on the left) was something special the moment he was born. Sputnik (the roany one on the right) had to grow into himself. But I'm pleased with how they're turning out in conformation, size, and attitude. I'm also thrilled with how well their training is coming!

We drove them in bits for the first time today. It went super well! I used 3 1/2" mullen mouth snaffles. They're a little big right now, but they'll be perfect by next year if not by this fall. With mullen mouth bits, I don't feel bad if the bit is slightly too large. There's no nutcracker action, and if the bit runs back and forth in the mouth a little it's ok because it's perfectly smooth. The boys accepted their bits just fine, and we were able to control them with a feather touch on the reins. Bridles also look much less bulky on their heads, and the boys' faces won't go bald from the halter chafing back and forth.


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## Retiredokjusttired

Thumbs up girl! This looks fantastic. Love the bit and bridles. They look perfect!


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## camooweal

Congratulations Damfino! You've done a great job with the goats and harness/vehicle etc and look forward to more photos in time to come. We used to drive a retired Standardbred (retired for the usual reason ... too slow!) and had lots of fun. 
camooweal


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## Damfino

We drove the boys in their first parade today! They did amazingly well and never balked or spooked even once. My husband drove them quite expertly while I walked behind the wagon throwing candy. I never once had to go to their heads to help him manage them. They got a lot of nice compliments. I'm so proud of them!

Afterwards we went to my parents' place for lunch and my nieces and nephews took a ride in the wagon. What a fun day!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

That's awesome! 
They're really pretty goats, btw!


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## NewbieNubian

Having a driving team of goats is a dream of mine. I've always loved harness horses and ground work has always been my strong point with horses, and I think it'd be fun to take my old love of horses and transfer it into a new aspect of my goats. Is there something specific I should look for in a harness goat? Is there a specific gender that works best?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

If you read all the previous pages, she's given some great info. It'll probably answer most of your questions


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## Damfino

I took my boys the Pueblo County packgoat class last Thursday and hitched them up to their wagon after the obstacle course. I let the kids take turns driving them (in halters of course!). They were a huge hit!


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## Damfino

After the packgoat class, we stopped by the Dairy Queen drive-thru for a treat! My husband and I got blizzards and the boys each got their own waffle cone. Now THIS is what you call "riding in style!"


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## ksalvagno

That is so cool!


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## lottsagoats1

Is that wagon specially made for goats or is it a garden wagon you revamped for driving? Someday I want a team of driving does.


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## Damfino

It's a garden wagon outfitted with team pole, yoke, and doubletree. I made the team pole and yoke but I bought the doubletree. 

One thing to think about with driving does is the udder. Notice how the britchen goes around the hindquarters right where the udder hangs. Even when milked, the udder on a dairy doe usually has enough substance to stick out a bit past the hindquarters. The britchen is likely to cause chafing and bruising of the udder tissues on most dairy does. Meat does would likely not have such a problem but it's still something to watch for.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

What did the person taking your order say? 

They look great!


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## Damfino

Thanks! Surprisingly, the person taking the order did not say anything. I suppose she suspected we wanted a reaction so she didn't give one. But some of the other employees came sniffing round the drive-thru window though they didn't belong there. And the picture window in front of the drive-thru window was crowded with customers who all wanted a peek at the goats. The disturbance behind the glass made the goats a bit nervous at first but they soon got over it.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Aw, that's sad :hammer:


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## Damfino

We're still having fun with our team! The boys just get better and better. And now we have a little tagalong to come with us and learn what it means to be a big, bad working goat like his cool uncles!


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## nicolemackenzie

This is so neat! One day... Hehe


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## Suzanne_Tyler

The little tagalong is adorable!!!


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## dreamacresfarm2

where did you get your wagon and harness?


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## Damfino

The wagon is a garden cart bought from Lowe's. The harnesses were purchased as a custom order from Chimacum Tack.


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## Damfino

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> The little tagalong is adorable!!!


He's for sale!


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## Goats Rock

How fun! They drive well together! And the tag- a-long is cute too!


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## ksalvagno

That is great!


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## camooweal

As others have said, congratulations!!! Love this thread and hope to watch the video tomorrow. Just a couple of things ... do you think the horns of one goat could cause damage to the goat alongside and the other thing is that they look great in bridles but I remember reading many years ago that bits shouldn't be used on a ruminant due to the possibility of choking. Just passing this comment on and not a criticism by any means! 
Can we look forward to a unicorn team some day and maybe a four-in-hand?! The possibilities are endless!
camooweal


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## Damfino

@ Camooweal, I was concerned about the horns at first, but after one or two drives the boys settled down and have been very good with them since. I was planning to use overchecks to keep the boys from being able to swipe sideways and knock heads, but I haven't needed them. 

I can't think why the bits should pose a problem with ruminants. The boys are able to eat and chew just fine with the bits in. They even ate a bunch of apples during a drive last week. If they can chew apples then they shouldn't have a problem dealing with cud. Of course, they almost never chew cud when we're out driving because they're working almost the whole time they're in harness so it's not really an issue. 

I have no trouble controlling the boys in halters, but unfortunately I haven't found a halter that doesn't chafe their noses. Halters also seem to get twisted out of place pretty easily so I'm always getting out to readjust them. I have more problems with the boys shaking their heads from discomfort when I drive in halters, particularly when driving as a team. Single driving isn't bad in halters, but in teams you have stub lines that must be correctly adjusted so that both goats feel the same rein tension when turning and stopping. Since halters tend to slide back and forth across the nose when pulled, it changes the lengths of the stub lines respective to the draft lines and causes the goats to feel different amounts of tension on their reins. This interferes with effective communication and it frustrates the goats. When the length of one stub line gets off, it causes that rein to put sideways pressure on the saddle as it passes through the terrets, so I'm constantly having to get out and re-center the saddles. It took me a a couple of drives to figure out why my goats' saddles kept rolling to the inside (always only one goat's saddle and always during a turn). The problem vanished completely the day we switched to bridles. 

That said, I would love to try a Dr. Cook style bitless bridle on the boys and see if that works better than the Sopris X halters I have. Maybe this winter I'll have time to make a couple. One problem is that goats' heads are very short and wedge-shaped, so keeping nosebands in place is a problem. When the noseband is adjusted low enough to be effective, it tends to slide right down to the end of the nose. In the end, designing and fitting a halter that is both effective and comfortable is a lot harder than simply using a bit and bridle. I've had no issues with the bits at all except training the boys to accept having something put in their mouths. Once the bits were in place, the boys didn't show a single sign of discomfort or annoyance from them even on the first drive. That's more than can be said of any halter I've ever used!


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## camooweal

Thanks for the info on horns and bits/bridles, damfino. Very interesting reading your comments along the way and if you do try a bitless bridle, would love to read how that goes too.

Re the bits and ruminants, I remembered afterwards that I'd come across that snippet when reading up on harnessing/driving bovines and it was to do with choking while cud-chewing. At that time we had a two-year old roan Shorthorn steer (now a huge eleven-year old bullock) we'd been contemplating breaking-in to harness. We did put some horse harness onto him and he had a few lessons from the ground and went OK but we never did progress any further.

As you said though, they're not going to have time to chew their cud while being driven.

Have now watched both your videos - thanks for putting them there. 

Happy driving!

camooweal


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## Damfino

We had the boys at the Colorado State Fair last weekend and they were a huge hit with folks who had just walked past row after row of little hornless milk does. My boys took up a whole stall apiece, and I had to keep them tethered at the back so they couldn't jump over the rails. All the people were respectful of their horns, which I quite appreciated. It helped that I put up a sign informing people of _why_ it's important not to grab a goat by the horns. Most horn-grabbers are simply ignorant, not intentionally vicious or rude.

The highlight of the fair, as ever, was the costume class. My husband and I are always the only entrants in the adult class, but we ham it up like it's a huge competition. This year, as there is a new movie out, we decided to reenact the chariot race from Ben-Hur. I was Messala and he was Ben-Hur and it was a hoot. Our boys weren't too sure about the crowds, and my goat, Sputnik, forgot how to turn when he came round the far turn and face-to-face with the loaded ringside bleachers. He went straight into the corner and I had to get out and help him. When Sputnik stopped, my husband's goat, Finn, stalled out too and we had to lead our "gallant steeds" across the finish line to the amusement of the crowd. The pictures aren't great, but as you can see, we had a fun time making these costumes.


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## nicolemackenzie

This is great! I'm going to have to go back and read about training and where to get gear... I so want to do this but oh to find the time...and convince DH to have two "worthless goats" who he can't get milk, babies, or meat from... These pics might help my cause.


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## Damfino

Usually I have a horse haul our Christmas tree from the fir stand to our house, but this year the goats got to do it. It's about time they did something besides strip our poor tree bare on its way to the house!


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## Goats Rock

That is so neat that your goats are pulling the tree!


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## Damfino

Yeah, usually one of my horses pulls the tree home while my shiftless, unemployed goats follow behind, stripping branches off as we go. This was much better!


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## Goats Rock

Thanks for the laugh!


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## capracreek

Damfino - thank you for sharing this post again as I had never seen it. How awesome. Are you going to ride in a parade??? That would be so cool as so few kids today ever see any animals and how they work. I grew up with Rodeos, circuses, zoos, turtle races and on and on. If we don't take every opportunity to educate about our animals we stand to loose them to PETA and HSUS who do bombard them almost daily with anti- animal propaganda.


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## Damfino

We've driven our boys in two 4th of July parades now, as well as our local Homecoming parade. We're taking them to the International Goat Days Festival in September for a chariot race! I posted a thread about it somewhere on here. In fact, my project for today is to decorate my chariot. I have a blue chariot, so I'll be decorating it with silver decals. I'm hoping we can get in some good driving practice this week. Our goats haven't been driven single nearly as much as they have as a team.


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## capracreek

Be sure to take a picture for us when you get it all decorated. That is so awesome - I would have never thought of it.


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## Idahogoats

Did they like it?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/revving-up-for-the-international-goat-days-festival.193663/


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## Damfino

Look out, folks! We've upgraded! Test drove this beauty at a carriage shop in Missouri last weekend, brought it home, and can't wait to try it out for real! The boys outgrew the little garden cart we trained them on and it kind of looks like a clown car next to them now. Besides, it could only hold one person at a time. This can carry up to four!


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## goathiker

Now you need a four in hand team


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## New-goat-mom

That is awesome!


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## Damfino

goathiker said:


> Now you need a four in hand team


We plan to eventually. In the meantime, our largest, prettiest doe just aborted.  Since she won't be raising kids or milking this year we may train her to lead the team in a unicorn hitch.


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## camooweal

Love the upgrade. Sorry to read of your doe, Damfino, but look forward to photos and stories of the unicorn and four-in-hand team in due course! You're an inspiration to the rest of us...
camooweal


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## Einhorn

You can have a troika! Though I'm not sure goats would put up with that...


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## Damfino

camooweal said:


> Love the upgrade. Sorry to read of your doe, Damfino, but look forward to photos and stories of the unicorn and four-in-hand team in due course!


Thanks. It's a sad loss because she lost her first kid to a head back presentation last year so we were really looking forward to this year. It was buckling this year too and we were hoping for buckling(s) out of her. On the plus side, she's flashy, a beautiful mover, and loves having a job so she should be fun to train.



Einhorn said:


> You can have a troika! Though I'm not sure goats would put up with that...


We could! I actually have shafts for this wagon and we tested it out on a single goat. It's a little heavy for one but not unmanageable. Three abreast is doable but I'd need to learn a lot more about hitching such a configuration. Singletrees and reins would all have to be hooked up differently.


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## catharina

That's amazing that 2 goats could pull 4 people! Would you have to get out going up hills? I love the new carriage!


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## Damfino

They're pretty darn strong. But we would not ask them to pull four people up a hill, no. Not unless they were truly fired up and needed heavy work to settle them! It helps that the seats are not very wide, so this carriage won't fit four big people. The cool thing about carriages is that on level ground, once they get started there's very little real work involved. The momentum keeps the wheels going so the carriage practically rolls itself. Starting, stopping, and hills are where the work comes in.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow, that is awesome!!


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## Damfino

Took our first real drive in the new carriage yesterday. The boys are out of practice but still did very well. They had no trouble pulling Phil and I both together. The wagon is well-suited to their size and it's a very comfortable ride for the passengers! It has brakes to help the boys on stops and downhill grades, and the tongue is self-supporting so they don't have to hold it up by the breastcollars. I think we're going to have a blast with this carriage!


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## Goats Rock

That looks like so much fun! Your goats are beautiful and that carriage is great!


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## goat girls

That is really cool!


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## MadCatX

Okay - first of all - this post is great. Details examples and help. 

But those two goats are beasts. I mean they look very tall and strong. Awesome animals!

That carriage design is cool..Im about 300lbs - how many would it take to pull me hahaa?

I thought about getting like 20 minis and do it up like Santa's sleigh but with Mini geughts


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## Damfino

"Beasts"-- Haha! I love it! They are definitely tall and strong. Finn probably weighs around 195 lbs. and Sputnik around 220.

Two goats could pull you. My husband and I have a combined weight of around 300 lbs. and these two had no problem pulling the both of us in this wagon.

My husband plays Santa for the Beulah parade of lights every Christmas and drives his goats with their wagon all done up in lights. This is a horrible picture from Christmas 2016, but you get the idea.


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## toth boer goats

Love the pics, thanks for sharing.

So sorry about the loss.


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## MadCatX

Man 195 and 220 thats impressive!!! and awesome Christmas pics - gonna show the wife hahaha - to funny


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## MadCatX

LOL I've showed this to several people. LOL awesome :mrgoat:


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## Damfino

Glad you're enjoying the photos! Went for a drive this afternoon and here are a couple more pictures to make you jealous.

Neener-neener-neener! 
















My husband only got out to snap the photos. For most of our hour-long drive he rode with me in the wagon. We even tackled a couple of hills and it didn't faze these boys.


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## MadCatX

I just cant get over the size of those boys. Completely Jealous lol - that looks like so much fun haha.


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## SalteyLove

Can you say a little more/explain how the tongue is self-supporting? That seems like a very good feature.


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## Goatzrule

I love their ears! they are so big. How hard was it to train them?


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## MadCatX

it looks like a solid bar on a pivot point. I was looking at the harness and it supports their whole body.


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## Damfino

SalteyLove said:


> Can you say a little more/explain how the tongue is self-supporting? That seems like a very good feature.


Here's a close-up of the support. It's called a "spring pole" because there's a shock absorber that runs from the carriage to the pole to keep it elevated. The spring allows it to bounce up and down a little so it's not rigid when the goats trot or get out of sync, but they never have to support the weight of the pole. I think it's a great feature!


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## Damfino

MadCatX said:


> it looks like a solid bar on a pivot point. I was looking at the harness and it supports their whole body.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the harness supporting their body, but here's a diagram of team harness parts and their function.


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## groovyoldlady

Wow, the goats AND the cart are amazing!!!!


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## MadCatX

Awesome its a full body harness so the goat doesnt have any points pulling more than the other. THank you for the diagram!


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## 8-Nigerian-8

Following


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## TCOLVIN

MadCatX said:


> Awesome its a full body harness so the goat doesnt have any points pulling more than the other. THank you for the diagram!


Send some pics. I have a partial harness for pulling but needs some additional to it. I also have the 2 wheel goat cart and a over 2 year old Sannen wether and a beautiful whether same age to pull with. I would love to train a double team to pull the cart. Any info appreciated.


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## MadCatX

TC - look up above a couple of posts, Damfino added it in there. Its a really nice harness its just buckling isnt a big dog like that hes a little Nigi hybrid...but I though it would be cool to have a mini harness for him to mess around with.


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## TCOLVIN

TCOLVIN said:


> Send some pics. I have a partial harness for pulling but needs some additional to it. I also have the 2 wheel goat cart and a over 2 year old Sannen wether and a beautiful whether same age to pull with. I would love to train a double team to pull the cart. Any info appreciated.


how long did it take to train them to pull?


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## MadCatX

I think it took them awhile to get them doing it. Hopefully he will come back and post some because he was really good about explaining how they did everything and why. If I had more land I would get two huge Boer bucks, load them up on high end proteins lol get em to around 250lbs each so they can pull me around haha. BUt he said his two were capable of pulling two adults and his pics prove it I was astonished at their pulling power.


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## MadCatX

Damfino said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the harness supporting their body, but here's a diagram of team harness parts and their function.


in this post is his diagram - I think you can click it on it and itll open.


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## MadCatX

Here it is - and its actually very informative - I downloaded it and uploaded it back. (Not mine so Im not sure if there are additional questions)


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## Damfino

TCOLVIN said:


> Send some pics. I have a partial harness for pulling but needs some additional to it. I also have the 2 wheel goat cart and a over 2 year old Sannen wether and a beautiful whether same age to pull with. I would love to train a double team to pull the cart. Any info appreciated.


Teams can be driven with 2-wheeled carts but it's not generally recommended. With a team you need a way to support the pole, which is difficult with a typical breast collar style harness. I recommend you use the cart for single driving and get a wagon for team driving.


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## Damfino

MadCatX said:


> I think it took them awhile to get them doing it. Hopefully he will come back and post some because he was really good about explaining how they did everything and why. If I had more land I would get two huge Boer bucks, load them up on high end proteins lol get em to around 250lbs each so they can pull me around haha. BUt he said his two were capable of pulling two adults and his pics prove it I was astonished at their pulling power.


Unfortunately I won't be able to keep posting here unless the site gets updated to work with Chrome. If anyone wants to ask any further questions, I can be found at packgoatcentral.com. There's a harness goat section there.


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## MadCatX

Awesome Damfino - good to see you around here for a few. Hopefully they get it fixed. The Mobile app appears to work. But Ill check out Pack goat...Hope your crew is still pulling strong!


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## toth boer goats

All seems to be working now Damfino. 

This is an interesting and very good thread.


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## Damfino

Drove our boys in the Colorado State Fair parade yesterday! We brought a couple of our May kids to ride along in back, but they were too big to both fit! So sweet little Sexy Sadie rode during the parade while her rambunctious brother Max walked beside us on a leash. It was her first time away from her mom, and his first time having to walk on a halter and lead, but both babies did very well. And Finn and Sputnik were troopers too. We got a lot of nice comments from the crowd. And since my carousel portrait of Finn is in the Arts and Crafts competition this week, I wonder if any of the parade spectators will see it and recognize him?


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## Dwarf Dad

Damfino said:


> Drove our boys in the Colorado State Fair parade yesterday! We brought a couple of our May kids to ride along in back, but they were too big to both fit! So sweet little Sexy Sadie rode during the parade while her rambunctious brother Max walked beside us on a leash. It was her first time away from her mom, and his first time having to walk on a halter and lead, but both babies did very well. And Finn and Sputnik were troopers too. We got a lot of nice comments from the crowd. And since my carousel portrait of Finn is in the Arts and Crafts competition this week, I wonder if any of the parade spectators will see it and recognize him?
> 
> View attachment 135975
> View attachment 135977


That had to be fun! Thank you for the great thread.


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## MadCatX

I love this! I love the pics of Finn and Sputnik pulling stuff. :run:


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## toth boer goats

How neat, thanks for sharing.


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## Dwarf Dad

I like you blog @Damfino !


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## Tall Pines Ranch

I love this! Makes me want to start looking for a cart in earnest.


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