# What Standard Breed Produces the Best/Most Milk



## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

so i know there can be so many opinions on this but i made this thread to see what breed I should consider adding to my herd.
I am not even considering Nubians because I live in the middle of a small town, so every one knows where to complain to and since Nubians are so loud i can't get them
my top choices are Alpines, Oberhasli, Toggenberg, La mancha or another saanen
I would love thoughts on any breeds and what breed I should consider the most.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Saanen is the Holstein of goats but they have the least amount of butterfat. But any breed will produce lots of milk if you get one with good milk genetics.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

The "loudness" of goats depends on how they were raised and their different personalities. Nubians get a bad rap for being loud - my neighbors didn't even know I had goats until breeding season. That being said, Saanens have the highest production, Nigerian the highest butterfat, Nubians with the second highest butterfat. The taste of the milk very much depends on their diet and balanced nutrition. Production can be very dependent on genetics.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

All of the above are great answers. I'm an Alpine fan myself for overall health and production. That is neither here nor there, however. Just pick one you like. Herds tend to be loud, or quiet, rather than individuals. I think it goes back to "how they're raised" mentioned above. So if you can, choose from a quiet herd.

Consider a cross, rather than a purebred, unless you are showing or selling for showing. Mixes can really be great as breed characteristics can balance one another nicely.

My best goat ever was a Saanen/Boer cross. Lots of great milk, she gave bucklings that attained weight much faster than Saanen bucklings, calm natured and quiet. I mean REALLY calm and quiet.

I was stupid, and I sold her when I was culling for conformation one year. Her fault was being cowhocked and I did not want that. I've since tried to buy her back. The new owner cruelly cackled as she walked away.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i am looking for show so mixes are out, but I was considering alpines myself since they are pretty as well as fairly good producers from what i have read


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I like Alpines. Watch for udder problems though. I've seen some badly put together udders in Alpines and if you are showing, you know you don't want that.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I like how independent they are, they produce a lot and it tastes good when they are not mineral deficient. And as you say, they are so pretty. 

All my herd queens have been at least part, if not pure, Alpine. They are much more assertive than my Saanens have been.


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## AliaLey (May 26, 2016)

My Nubians are fairly quiet. I hear my ducks more then the goats. One girl I have hardly ever talks and has a very quiet hmmm hhaaa she also has the sweetest milk. Plus I get cream so thick I can sculpt with it. (I have a cream separator) Right now I have a baby monitor set up for an overdue doe... I had to have my hubby go to the barn and make noise because I thought something was wrong with it. If your wanting to show I would get something popular in your area because you might find selling into 4h and such to be easier. Or heritage, people like to buy heritage. If breed doesn't matter to you I would look at the demand in your area.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

AliaLey said:


> If your wanting to show I would get something popular in your area because you might find selling into 4h and such to be easier. Or heritage, people like to buy heritage. If breed doesn't matter to you I would look at the demand in your area.


Ooh, Excellent point.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I love my Alpines  If you find good genetics any dairy breed can be pretty good though.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Old Post Farm I ?think? I remember you talking about cheese making???? If Toggenbergs really are a good option for your area, they were specifically developed to produce milk for cheese making... Lots of milk solids and a good tangy flavor (the sweeter, or blander milks don't produce the same flavor in cheese.)

I wish I could make cheese. I can make the soft, fresh cheeses, but don't have the equipment or knowhow for the hard cheeses my husband loves so much.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

yeah i mentioned cheese making. and I have seen people with toggs in my area but i don't know if they are selling. ok I will defiantly consider getting toggs


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

they are so cute


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Old Post Farm, you got lots of input on loud or quite goats. I think you probably learn that just because one animal from one breed is loud that it doesn't mean that they are all loud and noisy. We have Nubians and some of them are loud and others you never hear a sound from. Also we have a half LaMancha half Nubian that is the big voice of the herd but her daughter which is 3/4 Nubian and 1/4 LaMancha never says a word. We have a Saanan and she is calm, extremely friendly and lovable. The Saanan to me is the quite goat. an occasional bah bah and that is short and barely audible. AliaLey made a really good point, you should raise what ever kind of goat that is popular in your area for show, breeding and selling purposes. Good luck


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

alpines seem the most popular then Nubians then Oberhaslis so I will probably talk to a few people. I have a friend who is in the same 4-h club and breeds la manchas and Oberhaslis so i will talk to him


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

goatblessings said:


> The "loudness" of goats depends on how they were raised and their different personalities. Nubians get a bad rap for being loud - my neighbors didn't even know I had goats until breeding season. That being said, Saanens have the highest production, Nigerian the highest butterfat, Nubians with the second highest butterfat. The taste of the milk very much depends on their diet and balanced nutrition. Production can be very dependent on genetics.


There were not enough likes I could add sufficient for this post! Yes!
I have Miniature and Standard Nubians and without a doubt, the most common comment I get from other goat folk is that they can't believe how quiet my herd is. Even though I like the ears on mine, it's the temperament that I adore, breeds can differ quite a bit in their general temperament... what do YOU like? To me, temperament is huge; when you work with an animal multiple times a day, I want to love that animal and love going out to the barn to see them. Boy, there are so many beautiful options out there though!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know how it is for others but the Alpine that I had was such a bully to the other goats, I had to sell her. She was super friendly with me but terrible with the other goats. When we had a larger place I could handle it because I could put her in her own pen and field. But we moved and downsized so when I could no longer separate her at night and when she was a pain, I had to move her on. She injured another goat.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

My experience with my Mini Alpine was much the same as Karen's... She was 75% alpine. She'd look for an opportunity to full-on body slam any lower goat, preferably when they couldn't see her coming; the lower the other goat, the more aggressively she did it. There is a pecking order with all goats, of course, but I have not experienced the same level of borderline enjoyment in bullying with any of the herd queens since then.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, ALL my goats that develop that level of meanness get butchered. Not sold, butchered. And the offspring get the side-eye for a long time after. 

I had a doe, grade Nubian, actually kill another doe once (sweetheart of a LaMancha), she even attacked her LGD (her only friend in the herd). Not just mean, crazy mean. That can't be tolerated. But not restricted to the Alpine. As I said, she was a Nubian.

She was a horrible mother, too. Tried hard to kill her 2 month old triplets. Curiously enough, the doe who adopted and protected that one's rejected kids? My purebred Alpine herd queen! I lost her this past Summer to illness. We miss her very much.

Personality really does count. It is definitely something that affects my culling decisions. You 2 were so in the right to not keep those goats. I wish I had put Floppy down after the incident with her kids, instead of still trying to work with her. Then I would still have my lovely Lyric.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

In my experience, yes, Alpines tend to be bullies. I selectively breed for temperament, but overall, as a breed, they are still worse than other breeds.


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## NicoleV (Dec 12, 2015)

I might be biased because I have oberhaslis, but if you are looking for quiet, look no further than an oberhasli. I have never heard mine yell. I don't even know what it would sound like.


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## backyardFarming (Jun 13, 2013)

I have Alpines, Nubians, LaManchas, and one orlbahasli. My 3 Nubians are quiet( so I do think they get a bad rap for being loud). My Alpines only get loud when they are copper deficient and by that sign and My own individual records, I know when to administer them a copper bolus. *keep in mind that is not for all Alpines.. just their own line if genetics. My herd is usually quiet. My Nubians and my Alpine produce the most milk.. but I feel that has alot to do with their own particular genetics, not their breed per say.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

If I were going get a standard, I'd buy a Saanen. I watched a herd being appraised this year (granted, she probably has better than average Saanens), but they were so mellow and quiet.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I do own a LaMancha, and she's a decent milker and very quiet. She's just a pill.


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## MtnRidgeFarm (Dec 6, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Saanen is the Holstein of goats but they have the least amount of butterfat. But any breed will produce lots of milk if you get one with good milk genetics.


I totally agree with that! I only have a small experience with my goats (Alpine and Saanen) as they were in milk when I got them and I just dried them up to prepare for kidding, but my Alpine was far out performing my Saanen. I will see how things go after they freshen. I want an Oberhasli... and a Toggenburg.. and more Alpines. LOL Looking forward to hearing what you go with @oldpostfarm


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

I have oberhasli, lamancha, and Nubian milkers. The Nubian is the farm greeter. The Obers can milk thru the winter, and the lamancha is my sweetie pie. The milk all gets in the same jug so it's all good to me. 
The best situation for me, is to have milk year round. So the Obers are the key to that plan. The Nubian and lamancha are due to freshen in Feb. I breed the Obers in Dec or not at all, and just rotate which ones milk thru.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

backyardFarming said:


> I have Alpines, Nubians, LaManchas, and one orlbahasli. My 3 Nubians are quiet( so I do think they get a bad rap for being loud). My Alpines only get loud when they are copper deficient and by that sign and My own individual records, I know when to administer them a copper bolus. *keep in mind that is not for all Alpines.. just their own line if genetics. My herd is usually quiet. My Nubians and my Alpine produce the most milk.. but I feel that has alot to do with their own particular genetics, not their breed per say.


 i get what you all mean about Nubians I think I just thought that they are noisy because I have only seen them at the shows and all the goats are loud there but the Nubians seem the loudest at least there. and a Nubian owner friend of mine says they are loud so that is why I thought they are loud


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

@wifeof1, are you saying Obers are better at milking through than other breeds? Hmm, interesting!
We accomplish year round milk by freshening does in the fall as well as spring. I have not tried this with my standards, but most of my Minis visibly cycle in the spring. I think they get that from the Nigerian side, I believe Nigis are relatively easy to do this with also. I know some dairies do this via use of an implant or light manipulation, but I really like accomplishing this without anything like that on my part.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Well, that has been my limited experience. I have only experienced the breeds I have. I prefer not to breed, if my milkers will produce what I need. I don't want to deal with having to move along that many kids. Just me.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That is a great attitude. We each have very different reasons why we have goats. You are staying true to yours.

I've not heard that Obies milk through... Would you say that is typical?


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## backyardFarming (Jun 13, 2013)

A few facts to consider on good milkers is their genetics, their stress level (over all health) and what you feed them. Every herd is different as well as what is being fed to them. I think everyone is putting in good information here! When it comes to milk.. I personally love all dairy breeds!! And as for all meat or dairy breeds.. I just love all of them!! They are beautiful creatures!! I could never pick one breed over the other!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm not sure there is a particular breed that milks through better than others. My LaManchas were great at milking through too. I also milk through to reduce the number of kiddings.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> I'm not sure there is a particular breed that milks through better than others. My LaManchas were great at milking through too. I also milk through to reduce the number of kiddings.


I agree. I think it's the goat and the management on milking through, not the breed of goat.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

My Obers had precocious udders. So I think it's genetic. They are hard to dry off, and after freshening, I have to start milking on day 2. Any goat producing a gallon a day after 11 months fresh is not getting bred.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

Wow, that is impressive! No kidding! Wish we were closer! I do know of some individual herds that breed for milk-through ability.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'll bet you have no trouble selling her kids.

Move SoCal closer to KY and it is a done deal.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Seriously, I have never sold any kids. Started with 2 does. They had 5 kids. Butchered the 3 males. Milked one through that year. Then there were 5 more kids. Butchered 3 males. A couple times we only had bucks, that was srill ok. And so on and so on.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

wifeof1 said:


> My Obers had precocious udders. So I think it's genetic. They are hard to dry off, and after freshening, I have to start milking on day 2. Any goat producing a gallon a day after 11 months fresh is not getting bred.


 If you have an Oberhasli milking a gallon per day at 11 months you should have her on milk test
A friend of ours has the #1 Oberhasli on milk test and she just milked 8.5 lbs on day 282
You would have a top 5 doe

Edited : 
Her name is Sparkling Acres Carolina Jazz
She is currently #1 Ob on the leader board


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

They are not registered, that is why I didn't try. Heck there are friends of mine who say their does give a gallon and a half a day.
Which is why I am moving toward registered stock. Im missing all the fun.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

wifeof1 said:


> They are not registered, that is why I didn't try. Heck there are friends of mine who say their does give a gallon and a half a day.
> Which is why I am moving toward registered stock. Im missing all the fun.


You should look in to registering your doe as NOA 
She would be considered a recorded grade but for Obs they don't usually have as high a production 
And our friends doe is way out in front of the other Obs
So if you have a grade milking that much it would be a good thing
You could breed her back up
Oberhasli's as a breed are not that high producers


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

I tried to chase down the breeders, but both went out of the goat business. The entire herd was sold to someone in Arizona. The Sire was Loverboy. That's all I know. I will contact the local Ober breeder and have her come visit me. Cool beans.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

If you have a grade Ob that milks a gallon per day at 11 months in lactation you have one of the best in the country


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

To register as NOA you don't need to know anything about the parents
They just have to meet the breed standard
You are basically just adding them to the herd book
If you breed to a registered buck the off spring would be 50 percent because the doe is unknown and the sire is
Next generation is 75 per cent


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Also, if you could prove the dams give that much, some people would love to have your finest looking buckling as a sire. You don't have to butcher ALL bucklings. Those of us who are not registering need good bucks as well. Take pity on us...


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I breed Alpine/Nubian crosses. I love the creaminess of the Nubian milk, but I love the production of the Alpines. I'm trying for a "best of both worlds" approach. So far all of my crossbred does have had very high butterfat content and all of them will milk through, so I've been very pleased. Crossbred kids can be harder to sell, but I enjoy being in the Recorded Grade classes at shows. It's a fun class because of the variety, and sometimes a Recorded Grade even wins Best of Show, so it's not a class to be sneezed at.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I like that attitude @Damfino


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Damfino said:


> I breed Alpine/Nubian crosses. I love the creaminess of the Nubian milk, but I love the production of the Alpines. I'm trying for a "best of both worlds" approach. So far all of my crossbred does have had very high butterfat content and all of them will milk through, so I've been very pleased. Crossbred kids can be harder to sell, but I enjoy being in the Recorded Grade classes at shows. It's a fun class because of the variety, and sometimes a Recorded Grade even wins Best of Show, so it's not a class to be sneezed at.


We show a lot and I have seen a number of. Recorded Grades win BIS
And I have maybe ???. a top 10 Toggenburg for fat at 4 percent and a Nigerian at 10 percent


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## Nyjah (Mar 5, 2017)

In my little herd, in terms of temperament, the la mancha is amazing. She is very quiet, sweet and mellow and very thoughtful. My full bred alpine is equally friendly but a bit more confident. My two boars are pushy to the other goats but friendly to humans. The three pygmys are standoffish but not at all mean. The nubian/alpine screams all the time about anything and is very nosy and her little pygmy crossed daughter is the same way...maybe the yelling is individual but it does seem to be a bit hereditary!


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## clady92 (Apr 6, 2015)

I have a mixed herd myself. That being said, my purebred Alpine is my "loud mouth". She is the first to greet me & let me know where she has the rest of the herd. I agree with several other comments about temperament & how they respond to you. I have a Nubian/Lamancha cross doe who has been in milk for almost a year since her last kidding. I choose the alternate does, instead of breeding everyone every year. My purebred, grade Nubian is the quietest doe in the herd.


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## JennyB (Mar 4, 2015)

Old Post Farm said:


> so i know there can be so many opinions on this but i made this thread to see what breed I should consider adding to my herd.
> I am not even considering Nubians because I live in the middle of a small town, so every one knows where to complain to and since Nubians are so loud i can't get them
> my top choices are Alpines, Oberhasli, Toggenberg, La mancha or another saanen
> I would love thoughts on any breeds and what breed I should consider the most.


Nubians only make a noise when they are upset or wanting something, so please don't think they are loud. Mine certainly aren't loud or even slightly noisey. Only time I've had a noise is when it's rained unexpectedly and they are away from their shelter. They are the most gorgeous goats and not only the milk is good so are they! Can't speak highly enough of them. THEY ARE NOT LOUD!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, some are loud. Just like some Alpines are really aggressive.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Wow that's a lot of different stories, I have a Saanen doe who is my favorite. She is a gentle giant.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i think i am going with a saanen again because there is a huge saanen farm just down the road (that is where our herd sire is from) beautiful goats


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Samantha your saanen is adorable


JennyB said:


> Nubians only make a noise when they are upset or wanting something, so please don't think they are loud. Mine certainly aren't loud or even slightly noisey. Only time I've had a noise is when it's rained unexpectedly and they are away from their shelter. They are the most gorgeous goats and not only the milk is good so are they! Can't speak highly enough of them. THEY ARE NOT LOUD!


 if you read later in the posts i say that i have only experienced Nubians at shows and they are the loud mouths there, and i know people who own Nubians and they say they are loud so i just took their word for it


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

You will have to ask them how they tell all the white bodies apart


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

lol yeah but they have different collars (different colors and patterns)


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## FPF (Nov 29, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> I don't know how it is for others but the Alpine that I had was such a bully to the other goats, I had to sell her. She was super friendly with me but terrible with the other goats. When we had a larger place I could handle it because I could put her in her own pen and field. But we moved and downsized so when I could no longer separate her at night and when she was a pain, I had to move her on. She injured another goat.


We also have alpines and they are bullies but seem to mellow as they get the pecking order sorted out


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## FPF (Nov 29, 2017)

It’s funny that a cross bred goat would be “looked down on”. Horses are frequently cross bred and dual resisters to highlight the best of both breeds. I think sometimes we get too caught up in the showing/registration part, which is fine, but miss out on having a unique high quality milker.


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## MtnRidgeFarm (Dec 6, 2017)

I think that's true! @FPF I had an appendix QH once that was a fantastic horse. I don't think it's so much that mixed breeds are looked down on for simply milk production but I can see how they would be if you were interested in showing. Unless you have a purebred goat, it would seem impossible to judge by a standard. 
We only have 2 goats and because I have children that do 4H, I would personally want to keep my goats purebred. So at this point I wouldn't consider getting a cross. But down the road I would be open to one! I think that everyone has a unique situation and that dictates what they prefer. 
Great point to make though!! 
And on a side note, from the more previous replies, my Apline is my top goat. I wouldn't call her a bully though. She's just the queen! Although she is up against a Saanen who is like a big, white, fluffy sweetheart that wouldn't want to hurt a fly!:lolgoat:


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## FPF (Nov 29, 2017)

MtnRidgeFarm said:


> I think that's true! @FPF I had an appendix QH once that was a fantastic horse. I don't think it's so much that mixed breeds are looked down on for simply milk production but I can see how they would be if you were interested in showing. Unless you have a purebred goat, it would seem impossible to judge by a standard.
> We only have 2 goats and because I have children that do 4H, I would personally want to keep my goats purebred. So at this point I wouldn't consider getting a cross. But down the road I would be open to one! I think that everyone has a unique situation and that dictates what they prefer.
> Great point to make though!!
> And on a side note, from the more previous replies, my Apline is my top goat. I wouldn't call her a bully though. She's just the queen! Although she is up against a Saanen who is like a big, white, fluffy sweetheart that wouldn't want to hurt a fly!:lolgoat:


Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with Purebreds! We have 6 Reg Alpines and hope to gain another 4 this year. I was just making a general comment on the differences in some livestock practices.


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## MtnRidgeFarm (Dec 6, 2017)

Yes, and I agree with you!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goats don't have the status that even poorly conformed horses and ponies have. Heck, many livestock companies don't even class equines with the rest of livestock. It is a category of LIVESTOCK and then a category of EQUINE. 

Goat Showing is helping gain that status, but imho, and with no offense meant to the people here who show, that has led to an imbalance in how we value goats. Let's face it, when it comes to sheer output, cattle have it all over goats. We are no longer a nation that values much besides size and production and novelty. Goats don't have much of any of that. Also, goats are just more trouble than cattle and sheep. I love them more, but there is no question in my mind that goats are troublesome creatures.

Because of this low status, most of us producing crossbreds, are just content to have live offspring, but if they aren't alive long, well, it is only a goat, after all. That does not recommend us for serious consideration in the goat buying world. At least those who produce purebred registered animals are paying that much attention, so they get more attention.

It is hard for us who are striving to produce a nonnovelty animal but is focusing on quality production, to be taken seriously. In part because it is difficult to win in the show ring, which is one of the only venues available to gain status.

It's very circular, but I completely believe that the goat will rise to its rightful level. One day.

PS. I'm besotted with equines. No affront to those magnificent beasts was meant at all.


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