# lgd and working dogs



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Someone has free guard dog puppies...don't recall the breed they are big and white  any ways here the question. I have herding dogs I don't really use them on the goats unless they don't go back in their pen but that really doesn't happen often. I let my goats out of their pen during the day and out of the pen means with our cattle. Now if I get a lgd how is this going to go over with my working dogs??? Do you think it will see the working dogs gathering cattle and try and protect them?? The goats don't really hang with the cows since they eat brush and the cows eat grass but I'm worried if I got one there might be a issue. Anyone's thoughts?? My working dogs come first and I really haven't had a issue with anything after my goats except coyotes with young kids and that was a easy fix...they stay in the pen. So I don't know if it would be worth getting a guard dog.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Can't answer your other questions but I can say that a guard dog and an LGD are two different types of working dog.

Unless the dogs are an LGD breed I would pass. Even if they're free. 


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Great Pyrenees? I think the dogs are smart enough to figure out which animals belong and which don't. As long as the herding dogs aren't attacking the goats, I think the LGD would figure out they aren't a threat. And getting a puppy, it will be use to seeing the herd dogs do their job.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't know the breed maybe a cross. The parents are used for protecting sheep so for sure lgd. 
Thanks Carmen...Im just a little worried and don't want to get a puppy to just put down.....there is no killing of other animals especially these dogs we have lol. Maybe I'll try it and if need be I can give it away if it seems there might be a problem. I would just be out dog food.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well the lady was not a nice lady....let's just leave it at that....so no lgd  they were great Pyrenees maremma I think it was cross.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

A Pyrenees x Maremma would have worked. 

The only thing to stay away from is non LGD breeds advertised as guardians or LGD mixed with a non LGD breed. 

Sorry you didn't end up with anything


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow. Too bad. If you are wanting to give puppies away, you should at least be halfway nice about it. Must not have been meant for you then...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am very sorry


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

*I have a dog breeding question*

I have had my LGD for 3 years now and am picking up a second this weekend, a female to breed him too. What I want to know is, when those of you that breed dogs have the female come into heat, have you had any problems with neighboring males coming over and either 1. harming your herd, or 2. harming your dogs? How do you go about keeping the other male dogs off your property? She will be penned until she is used to us and she is bred.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Stacie1205 said:


> I have had my LGD for 3 years now and am picking up a second this weekend, a female to breed him too. What I want to know is, when those of you that breed dogs have the female come into heat, have you had any problems with neighboring males coming over and either 1. harming your herd, or 2. harming your dogs? How do you go about keeping the other male dogs off your property? She will be penned until she is used to us and she is bred.


You don't keep the other males away. If you have a female in heat and there are intact males anywhere in the vicinity, they will be at your house. How do you keep them away? Shoot them. If they are running loose and coming to your house, eliminate the problem. Will they harm your herd? If they want to and if your LGD's don't stop them. Will they harm your LGD's? Well...that's what the LGD's are there for isn't it? To stop other dogs? It's always possible they will get harmed while doing their jobs.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Now a girl in heat k know about lol. Yes other male dogs will come even coyotes. You might even need to watch the male you want to breed her to with the goats when she is in heat. Our border collie is getting older so we don't want to breed her any more. This last time she came into heat we put her in the horse trailer. The male we have is a Queensland cross....he's a general giant and really he's worthless on cows because he's so calm. He was laying by the trailer and if anything by us went by he would snap at them....and I can't stress enough how played back this dog is but his hormones just went a little nuts.
Now I would let it change your plans I would simply make a kennel away from the goats to put her in while in heat and take the male to her. If other dogs show up they should be more concerned about that bitch then 'playing' with the goats.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

From my lgd readings, it seems like certain breeds work well with herding dogs - I think it was the komodor and puli. One herded the sheep, the other kept the wolves away). So, its possible to have both.


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## ttaylor7 (Jan 8, 2014)

nchen7 said:


> From my lgd readings, it seems like certain breeds work well with herding dogs - I think it was the komodor and puli. One herded the sheep, the other kept the wolves away). So, its possible to have both.


Turkish lpd breeds, notably the Akbash and the Kangal Dogs, are valued because they are dog UN-friendly, yet in the 16-18 years we maintained a large commercial herd of dairy goats and kept 2-4 of these dogs with the herd, we used border collies routinely and never had a problem -- except when a hired person's male BC thought he might challenge the dominant male Akbash -- we rescued the BC who was neutered and became a smarter fellow!

Most lpds thrive on the routine and the familiar -- they learn to accept herding dogs -- but the dog(s) have to be something they get accustomed to -- and the earlier in life, the easier that is.

TxTaylor
www.patterandairygoats.com 
Pure Turkish Akbash and Kangal Dogs with our sheep and goats since 1985


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## ttaylor7 (Jan 8, 2014)

*new puppy -- breed or buy one*



Stacie1205 said:


> I have had my LGD for 3 years now and am picking up a second this weekend, a female to breed him too. What I want to know is, when those of you that breed dogs have the female come into heat, have you had any problems with neighboring males coming over and either 1. harming your herd, or 2. harming your dogs? How do you go about keeping the other male dogs off your property? She will be penned until she is used to us and she is bred.


By now you probably have your female dog. The questions you ask are good ones -- yes - her estrus (heat) will attract other male dogs. Your male may go after them quite aggressively (even to the point of chasing the other male away -- far away -- some males have caught and killed intruding neighbor dogs in their own yards -- not good for neighborly relationships.

The female will need to be penned -- preferably in a covered pen with a concrete floor. I knew a man that put his Akbash Dog female in a 24 ft horse trailer -- the neighbor's pit bull managed to climb up and wriggle through a 12 inch space to get to her.

One problem we have seen is the male (yours) being so smitten that he abandons the livestock to sit and guard the pen where the female is. And dogs that have never been unduly aggressive suddenly, with their testosterone surge, become less compliant and less predictable. The male might charge and even attack other dogs -- family or herding dogs -- livestock -- anything that approaches the pen too closely.

A friend and I were just having a conversation about the cost effectiveness of raising your own "free" replacement pups -- particularly out of cross bred or unpapered dogs. By 8 weeks each pup should weigh about 20 lbs -- that's a lot of food and puppy poo and vaccinations and concerns when they can wiggle out of fences. He said it was comparable to raising a colt for yourself or just buying what you really wanted. He opted for buying a puppy to put with his excellent mixed Pyr. He decided rather than going into the puppy business he'd be better off purchasing something from known parentage and giving it an ideal "dog trainer" -- his current lpd.

ttaylortx
www.patterandairygoats.com since 1972


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## ttaylor7 (Jan 8, 2014)

*new puppy -- breed or buy one*



Stacie1205 said:


> I have had my LGD for 3 years now and am picking up a second this weekend, a female to breed him too. What I want to know is, when those of you that breed dogs have the female come into heat, have you had any problems with neighboring males coming over and either 1. harming your herd, or 2. harming your dogs? How do you go about keeping the other male dogs off your property? She will be penned until she is used to us and she is bred.


By now you probably have your female dog. The questions you ask are good ones -- yes - her estrus (heat) will attract other male dogs. Your male may go after them quite aggressively (even to the point of chasing the other male away -- far away). Male guard dogs that were set on protecting their potential mates have caught and killed intruding neighbor dogs in their own yards -- not good for neighborly relationships.

The female will need to be penned -- preferably in a covered pen with a concrete floor. I knew a man that put his Akbash Dog female in a 24 ft horse trailer -- the neighbor's pit bull managed to climb up and wriggle through a 12 inch space to get to her. What do you do with those pups?? I'd rather not even think about it.

One problem we have seen is the male (the livestock owner's) being so smitten that he abandons the livestock to sit and guard the pen where the female is. And dogs that have never been unduly aggressive suddenly, with their testosterone surge, become less compliant and less predictable. The male might charge and even attack other dogs -- family or herding dogs -- livestock -- anything that approaches the penned female too closely.

A friend and I were just having a conversation about the cost effectiveness of raising your own "free" replacement pups -- particularly out of cross bred or unpapered dogs. By 8 weeks each pup should weigh about 20 lbs -- that's a lot of food and puppy poo and vaccinations and concerns when they can wiggle out of fences. He said it was comparable to raising a colt for yourself or just buying what you really wanted. He opted for buying a puppy to put with his excellent mixed Pyr. He decided rather than going into the puppy business he'd be better off purchasing something from known parentage and giving it an ideal "dog trainer" -- his current lpd.

ttaylortx
www.patterandairygoats.com since 1972


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## ttaylor7 (Jan 8, 2014)

*problems with breeding dogs*



Stacie1205 said:


> I have had my LGD for 3 years now and am picking up a second this weekend, a female to breed him too. What I want to know is, when those of you that breed dogs have the female come into heat, have you had any problems with neighboring males coming over and either 1. harming your herd, or 2. harming your dogs? How do you go about keeping the other male dogs off your property? She will be penned until she is used to us and she is bred.


Stacie,
Your questions are good ones and I responded in another message -- but please be aware that females get a strong urge to roam while they are in pre-estrus, before they show signs of heat. However, their odor is changing and they may well go "walk-about" and take the devoted, hopeful male companion with them.

A number of years ago, we lost two lovely young females (over a period of about 4 years) that we realized too late were in pre-estrus (first heats). We find our mature bitches don't wander if they are in sound fencing and are not in that habit to begin with -- but with young females the situation can be different. They are confused and the owner often doesn't realize what hormonal state they are in.

There is a reason that most working horses are geldings and most working dogs are neutered IMO.

Txtaylor


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## SixxGoats (Feb 16, 2014)

Stacie1205, I'm curious as to what made you decide to start breeding LGD's? Are you in a part of the country where there is a high demand? I'm not anti breeding or anything not trying to ambush you, I was just curious, as to the motivation.


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