# Boer goat scorecard for 4H kids?????



## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

So reaching out to the boer community. I'm a 4H goat club advisor and am looking ahead for our workshops. I would really like to do one for our kids to help them analyze and pick a good market wether, and take a strong look at breeding does. Problem - I'm a dairy girl and am unfamiliar with a scorecard, etc. Can you point me in the right direction here? Resources, etc? Also, we are in southwest Indiana - any folks out that way who show?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sure you will get plenty of advice. Unfortunately I'm also dairy.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Boer folks???? Toth - can you help?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't know about a score card. If you google picking a market wether you should get a ton of info. Here is one
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=955

As I kinda browsed threw the article I didn't see one important factor. Where the loin is, back behind the ribs, that bone there (is it still called a loin?) you want it to be wide across and long. So when the kids are picking wethers have them get their hands on them and feel right there as well. It will be a little tricky if you go to a farm where the kids are different ages but just have them do their best. But basically looking at the kids you want a tube of a body.
For the does look at the fair book (or where ever they are going to be showing) and look at the classes they have to offer. There is a huge difference between registered and wether dams. With the wether dams your still looking for that tube like structure. For registered I can't even behind to totally explain it. 
If you can though I would find a farm that has a good amount of market kids available and see if they would be willing to make kinda a field trip out of it where the breeder will kinda take the kids by the hand. I have a breeder friend in Indiana that is a member on here but doesn't come on very often, but I'll see if I can get In touch with him and get him on here for you


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi there with boer goats there is not a real score card like dairy goats have. There are some standards tho. But those do refer alot more to breeding does and breeding bucks. When it comes to wethers there are basically 2 parts to the boer goat industry. ABGA boer goats and wether genetics most of which are commercial but not always. ABGA wethers are the byproduct from registered boer goats. They will typically grow a little faster then wether genetics, will be deeper bodied and taller. There is nothing wrong with them but they were just not breed buck potential. Same with dairy goats. Wether genetics grow slower, are kind of more sheep like. Longer bodied shallow in their depth, but super wide thru out, and very muscular. They have a thinner tighter hide also. Wethers can have an off bite, vertically folded ears, poor teat structure. Or other things like that because they are terminal animals. But they do still need good structure. You brace them like lambs when you show them. Atleast up here in the midwest you do. The reason they like the wether genetics to grow slower is so they can run the jack pot circuit all summer and stay competitive without their wethers getting too big. If you are showing in 4-H in July you will want to find dec-February ABGA wethers. But if you want wether genetics you better look for Oct-dec wethers so they are the right size. I hope this is helpping and I am not over whelming you by babbling on.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Here go to this site and you can judge multiple classes of does and wethers. Its meat goat livestock judging. 4 per class and they will give you the placings they placed and cuts. Hope this will help also. It's hard because they are just pictures but it may help.
https://surechamp.com/blog/category/judging-goats/


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

WOW - you guys are awesome!!!! Thank you so much!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Great site Roger! I'll have to look at that one myself 

As for score cards, I've never honestly heard of such a thing with showing meat goats. I think that is a dairy goat thing?
I am in KY, near Lexington. My kids have shown in 4-H since 2011 (2nd just aged out, 1 left :'( )
Sadly though, we have different 4-H expectations and learning than you do in Indiana. We don't even have a goat club, just a livestock club and kids don't learn anything about goats which is very sad. So we've had to learn everything on our own.

I know there are websites out there with classes like Roger mentioned above, that is where I would start. You might see if they have any show or livestock judging clinics in your area? Although they may not focus on goats, but you could learn in advance. Any shows in the area you could attend? If NAILE wasn't during the week and a school day I'd highly suggest a field trip if it's not too far away/weather permitting. You might look on youtube for videos. YouTube is where my kids learned how to show goats years ago. We've basically been the only family in our county to show goats since 2011. A family or kid might show one here and there. Currently one of our neighbors kids are involved in showing, but that's it. 

As for breeding does, if your talking about following breeding standards, check out the ABGA website for breed standards. You can make a chart on what to look for. Structure is of course the ultimate factor, but the most common show ring disqualifications for breeding goats are:
Bite, teats (does), scrotum (bucks - they don't check bucks teats), and tail pigment. 
Loin is the most expensive cut of meat on a goat, so that is a big factor. I am not great at judging that kind of stuff, but that would be a big one for kids who want to show market goats, and should be for breeding goats as well. County fair judges tend to judge breeding goats along the lines of market animals IMO, unless they have experience with ABGA rules and judging.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice, cannot add more.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Thank you to everyone! I will check out all these sites and information. I am used to the ADGA scorecard, but have never personally raised or shown meat goats. I am one of the advisors for our goat club, so I'm trying to think of different workshops for our kids. I go to Naile and nationals for dairy goats when close enough, but definitely don't have enough of a foundation to help our meat goat kids. We don't have breeding and wether does separately, but wanted to start somewhere in thinking of good workshops and information. I am trying to noodle out people we can ask (and afford) to do a workshop for our kids pre buying season. In the event that we don't have the $$, I thought at least pulling resources together would be helpful. All of you are so kind, and AMAZING to help. You are very much appreciated.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Your welcome. Can I ask what county you are in/area? I just wasn't sure how far out you were from Louisville. I might know a few people I could ask that might be near you that could offer information, and resources that may help you out more.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Yes! We are in Union County - southeast Indiana, right on the border between Indiana and Ohio


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh bummer, I was looking at a map and your farther northeast than most of the people I know  I will check with some of them and see if they know of any upcoming clinics, or anything that I can pass on that might be in your area, and any breeders or know of any sales that might draw in goats that would be affordable. 
I will say that I have friends in our area who sell boys that are mostly fullblooded or high percentage as wethers for reasonable prices, but not sure that would be an option as far as trying to find show goats, but again just hit me up in the event you need to find some!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Sure will - thanks for your help! I am printing the info from above, so we will have something to start with. I appreciate your kindness.


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