# Sick babies?



## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

K...so we purchased some baby goats at auction. We were told they were 5 1/2 weeks and had been bottle raised cause their momma didn't lactate. Sounded reasonable & they gave us some advice on how they had been caring for them. 8 oz bottles of formula 3 times daily. Ok...so after some reading...I have found that this is deadly? I stopped it immediately and now am caring for them as advised by alot of diff sites. Feeding whole cow milk warmed about 4-5 oz every 4 hrs. Their poop is starting to firm up some. Looks more like newborn baby waste now. Alot better than the water they were spewing to begin with. So turns out they may actually be in the 1 St week of their life. The vet advised me to get them some probios...which I did & try introducing mineral & grain. They have no interest though. They also sound like they have a cold. The littler one was foaming from his mouth and had clear nasal discharge, but it's dissipated now. And he is up and playful  But now the larger one sounds rattly. Maybe I'm just a new mommy and being over protective, but I've never raised goats before and believing we were getting babies that were almost out of the scary time...to find out they are truly newborns that were being cared for 100% wrong. I have cared them past the diarrhea dehydration stage, but I just feel like every step we take forward is another step back . I'm so scared of losing them! Me & my children will be devastated. Any help and advise is greatly appreciated.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Great move on going to whole cow & adding probiotics. If they are as young as you suspect, they dont really need intro to grain at this time. My 2mo olds are just now fiddling with minerals.
Someone else will chime in about raspy. Have you taken temps?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

No...how would I? Just a regular baby thermometer? Rectal....I assume?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes rectal - I use a digital one since its a quick read out. Normal temp is 101.5-103

not all replacers are bad - its my go to choice for feeding kids when I dont have goats milk. 

now for the raspy sound I would probably put them on antibiotics since they went through the auction. Oxytetracyline is an OTC (LA200, duramycin, biomycin) 1cc per 20lbs IM


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Congratulations on your new babies, we would love to see them.

 If you take their temp, please make sure you lube the end before you put it in there. 

 I have only used powder milk and I never had a problem. I think the three reasons people have problems are

1. They feed way too much at a time. You have to go according to the size and weight of the baby
2. People put too much powder in the bottle with the water. I think people think more is better, but NO not at all. I always fed just a little less then it said. 
3. People do not feed often enough enough. Try to get all the feedings in like two bottles. Not good.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Would u say using infant formula is ok? I have read alot where it says it will def kill.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I put their pic as mine, but they don't like to be still when I get near them...they like cuddling alot


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would stick with the whole cows milk..you already got them on it and it seems to be working...its true many of the problems with replacer is using it wrong but some kids can not digest it and can become ill....best to keep them on the whole cows milk now..I agree with Stacy..get them on antibiotics...tylan 200 or LA 200...I like Nuflor but you need to get it from a vet...its one shot a day, does not sting like LA2oo and Tylan 200...and boy it works! a bit of B complex and probios...and Nutra drench lol...I forgot that one when treating my little man...Good job with them...switching milk...and the amounts...you got right on top of that...


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...so my littler guy, Lance, temp was 100.4 and the bigger one, Sammy's temp was 102.6. So they are good?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I've already done the probios...yesterday. Can my reg vet get me the meds? We don't have a goat vet yet.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I want to ad...it was a general auction, not livestock. Just 1 guy brought rabbits and the goats. So they weren't exposed to other animals. But if u still think they could be sick...then I def want to treat them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

temp for Sammy is great, Lance is a bit low....but not in danger by any means...Yes your reg. Vet can give you Nuflor...your babies will get 1 cc once a day for five days...my little guy had foamy mouth..snotty nose and lots and lots of congestion his fever was scary high...so your guys are with in good range...but with them being exposed to who knows what at the sale barn...even without a high temp I would give it to them...I would usually say treat with B complex and nutra drench and see how they do since they dont have fever..but...Im on the fence here...I think if they were mine I would do antibiotics just in case....


UPDATE: Ok..so they were not in an actual auction place...because even if there were no more animals..the place its self is covered in who knows what..but if it was not an auction sale barn then go with b complex and nutra drench


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Sammy is refusing to eat now. He is usually my more active one. He only had an ounce this feeding and just has no interest in anymore. I kept trying to push it, but he's not even sucking. He is still standing, but his legs are bent and he's trembling. He won't move & he usually follows me everywhere


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

the switch of milk may have been quick for their tummies...do you have any CD Antitoxin or can you get some...A vet might have some in stock or tractor supply..in the mean time also add a pinch of baking soda in 3 cc of water and drench him....Take them both off milk for now...give electros..if you dont have any you can make some

Homemade ElectrolytesA half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..

once they are back to normal begin the whole cows milk a gain..slowly...let their tummies adjust
here is a great guide to get them on milk slowly...
http://goat-link.com/content/view/94/76/#.UUofhBx3Z0M


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I just spoke to the vet and he says pneumonia. He said they prob didn't get colostrum at birth and it's a lost cause . How can he say that? He refused to give me meds...asked if I had any at home. I told him ammox. And he said give 1 ml 2 times a day. So what would be good to go with that? Something to boost Sammy's energy? He was my healthy baby . I am so lost right now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Pneumonia usually has fever but not always...Tylan 200 is a good over the counter antibiotic..any good feed store such as tractor supply carries it. they are not a lost cause..dont listen to him....while getting the tylan 200 Or LA 200 what ever they carry...pick up B complex.its a good energy giver..probios is wonderful for them...as I said before...stop the milk..do elecros to keep them hydrated...if they have CD antitoxin..get that too ...Im sorry I know this is scary but we will work real hard to get them to feel better...lets start with the electros to keep him hydrated...then get the meds as soon as you can...


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

We live in a real small town. Luckily it's farmville so we have a feed store, but they don't open til 9am. Do u think the ammox will do good for now?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Btw...he said he was a farmer and had goats, but also said as a vet, he doesn't know much about babies cause they are hard to hand raise & considered disposable :'(


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

YIks....dont listen to him....Im sorry he was so cold and unhelpful...lets get a new temp on your boys..Im thinking right now its more the quick change from Replacer to milk..sometimes their tummies need the time to get used to the change..will they take electros...Ivenot used ammox. on goats before...


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm gonna check in a few minutes when my husband gets back to help me. Sammy's chest is so rattly though and his breathing is so shallow


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

rattly chest...shallow breathing it just might be pheunomia...Maybe the temp will help us here...Make sure youhave them propped up if they are laying down..dont let them lay flat...use towels of blankets to prop them on they chest so to speak....this will help his breath...you can give him a musinex (sp)or some thing the same...break up the congestions...maybe 1 cc? ..Im going to go look some stuff up including the use of Ammox


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..I looked it up and using Ammox is fine....go a head and give them some orally....the amount the vet said should be fine...


Chest congestion can be relieved by giving an expectorant/antihistamine/decongestant orally to the sick goat twice daily at a dosage of approximately six cc's per 100 pounds bodyweight.Children's antihistamine/decongestant/expectorant syrups (Robitussin is an example) may have to be used since Expecthist is no longer available. Relieving chest congestion is very important in terms of a goat's surviving pneumonia. Don't discount the importance of these oral medications.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...so we still have 2 good temps. My little guy that was low earlier is now 103.3 and my sick Sammy is still 102.2


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

He's still quite lethargic. But he's moving about a bit more. He still refuses his bottle. So I'm using a medicine syringe. He's starting grinding his teeth. I read that means he's in pain


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

And he is trying to lay with his head flat on the floor. He's never done that. He usually snuggles into his brothers back.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

did you do anything that happybleats has suggested for the congestion?

also her electrolyte mixture would be good to give as well


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

temps are good...that's good..your not giving milk right? electros only for now...grinding teeth does mean pain...usually gut pain...Ok..Im going out on a limb here..saying a slight cold happening with congestions and running nose...use a decongestion...or Benedryl if thats all you have...and Im saying the milk switch was too fast causing tummy upset.. Cd antitoxin is needed..but since you cant get any right now..a pinch of baking soda in 3 cc of water.. syringe in down the hatch..both babies...electros only until all this passes...are they pooping fine?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...I'm on my way out the door now. Going to town to get mucinex. I did the baking soda. He is resting again. Hope he wakes feeling better. Their poop has been bad since we got them. It thickened up a bit, but Sammy's turned back into water today. Now it's getting little creamy again.


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## FrankSandy (Sep 14, 2011)

*Sick Babies*

Best of Luck with your kids. Do you have them in a warm area? Away from Drafts ect.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...that actually is good news..it tells me the milk issue is more than likely whats going on here with it starting to thicken.....let keep them on electros and treat for congestion ....


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## goatiegirl (Jan 7, 2013)

Just a thought, but if you are keeping them in the barn, you might want to bring them inside for the night to keep them warm. Not sure where you live, but here its only supposed to be 8 degrees tonight and if they are sick, they seem to drop their temperature fast.....


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...both babies have been treated with baking soda and mucinex. Hope they keep getting better. They are housed indoors. I thought they were too little for the winter cold...so I turned my laundry room into a makeshift barn for them. I also made them a little shelter in there to snuggle up with each other. The entire floor is lined with a big quilt and topped with tons of hay.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like a great play room : ) If this is from the milk...they will feel tons better...keep them hydrated with electros ..: )


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ty so much  midnight feeding went great. Sammy came right out to eat. He sucked it down. I'm so happy. Both of my babies are crying. Haven't heard Sammy's voice in a day


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

That is good news. Hope it continues


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

That is good. Just a thoug if this upset tummy is indeed from the change in.milk, you.might cobsider altwrnating bottles of milk and electrolytes for sammy for the next day. So instead of him being due for a milk bittle, give electrolytes instead then for the next one back to mulk. To introduce the milk again to his system slowly. 

Also probiotics. Yoghurt in his milk can help


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen..reintroducing the milk slowly...so their tummy adjusts...Im so happy they feel better...: ) Nothing feels better then getting a sick one back up and runny...Good job!!!


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I am so thankful for everyone's help. The vet had me believing there was no chance Sammy would make it thru the night. And him & Lance are doing great today. They are still sniffly, but the chest rattle is gone & both are eating good now. They still look a bit thin (dehydrated)? But they are coming along well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its good to hear...keep up the good work : )


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

would yogurt help on he diareah? i know Thats what we use on my wethers but they were a few months old not babbies. we gave 1 cup for mine that were 4 months.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yogurt is like giving probios really...it couldn,t hurt, kind of repopulate the gut..but it depends on what causes the runs....I dont think it alone would stop the runs...but a good support item


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

So I have been alternating milk and electrolytes. Adding a little yogurt to the milk a couple times. So their poop has been consistently a creamy yellow...not water, but far from firm. Then last night when I gave the electrolytes...Sammy immediately pooped pure water. It had a very slight yellow to it, but it was water! Now he's back to cream again. They look good. Not scrawny & dehydrated anymore. Should I wean off the electrolytes today? Continue yogurt? When should I expect the poop the firm up?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I know you said they are only a week old in your estimation but were told they were 5 1/2 weeks. 

Do they have horns yet growing?

Treatment for the runs can be a couple things. But age will help.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

They do not have horns. They still have their cords. They don't even attempt to eat anything except the bottle. I try to give them grain, minerals, oats...they have no clue. I have figured out that they are an earless breed. I thought their ears just grow in later...lol.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no ears are lamancha.... they are not getting any milk right now? I would not add the yogart to their elecros....its ok to add to milk later if you choose...Elwectros are best on their own...you could also give them a tad bit right in mouth after their electros...we need to get the runs to stop so they dont get dehydrated...a little pepto will coat their tummy and help with the runs...

Im thinking out loud here...no milk..electros with yogurt..yellow watery runs...I think you need to get them on CD Antitoxin no yogurt for now...we can add that back later when they feel better...I know they are young..but I would still check for Cocci...it couldnt hurt and while your vets checks for that he can see if there are any other worm lerking in there causing them trouble....
Stacy what are you thinking??


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...now I'm lost. Yesterday it said alternate electros and milk. So that's what I did. And added spoon of yogurt to 2 of the milk feedings. Please don't tell me I messed up . They look well


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Can I get the antitoxin at feed store. This vet is no help whatsoever! Like he doesn't believe goats are worth it! He is a farm vet. Wt heck is his problem? No clue, but he gave me advice cause I was hysterically balling on the phone, but still refused actual house visit or running fecal sample to test for parasites!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no you are doing great!!!! Im talking this out...: ) Lets stop milk all together now...I should have read yesterdays post to remind me what was going on Im sorry if I scared you.....Once the runs have ended then we will do milk : ) Im sending this now so you dont feel bad thenI wil keep typing : )


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It is great news they are doing well, the fact they are playful is very encouraging.......so we need to deal with the runs right now...when the tummy is off..like with the runs...it cannot digest the milk well...this is why we say no milk...before they were doing better..poop was thickening up so that is why we said alternate : ) So for today lets do no milk..no yogurt just electros...make sure its milk warm...check your feed store for CD Antitoxin.....they may have it...some carry it..some TS carry it...I had to order mine from Jeffers...it is a good medicine to keep on hand...
as for a fecal...UGH..is there another vet any where with in a few hours who would be able to help you...even a regular dog vet can do fecals...it would be good to know whats going on there...You can also send in samples to a lab yourself...but that would take time of course but if it is your only choice....


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Is it safe to just treat for worms anyways? The vet is same ppl just 2 different buildings. 1 for small & 1 for large animals.I have contacted other vets & they are no help because we are not already registered with them. They told me, I will have to take them to the local pet hospital...which is about 2.5 hrs away & will be about $150 to just walk in the office. Having 4 children makes the trip difficult to begin with. Not to mention, they expect you to leave your animals for observation at $75/ hr and they told me over the phone...they don't typically see goats & so they are not experts in their care? Seems ridiculous to me. They trained to care for animals & they truly only care for the ones they choose to.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I would keep searching around for vets. There are more around then you probably realize.

personally I dont think its worms. Its either upset stomach and digestive system or ecoli.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

UGH..Doesnt that just boil your blood....Vets should be made to take in a baby goat and care for them before they graduate..That would win them over!... You could treat for worms...if they have worms you certainly don't worry about age...This is what I would do for now...No milk for 24 hours..electros only to keep them hydrated...and cd antitoxin if your feed store doent carry it I would order some, I would also give b Complex to keep the perky..maybe call your feed store and talk with them....see if they have any CD Antitoxin, B complex if you need it... There are many kinds of wormer...for babies I use Valbazen..its oral and for Cocci I use Baycox, but that has to be ordered. Sulmet is readily avaible..If you want to order some baycox..you will have it in time to treat by three weeks of age which is recommended... Baycox (Toltrazuril) is ordered from prehorserace.com...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Neomycin is good for ecoli...didn't think of that : )


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Local tractor supply only has tetanus antitoxin. Is that same?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

no its not


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...I found it online. Doesn't help immediately though. If ecoli...that requires vet script though?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ecoli you treat with neomycin oral drench and no its OTC


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tractor supply should carry neomycin....
I had to order my CD Antitoxin too...I ordered from Jeffers.. 
Did you see if they carry B complex..or did you already have that?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok. Found that too. Can I use safeguard dewormer? That's what my hubby found at tractor supply.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Many use it with success....I would wait 24 hours with babies off milk before worming, see how the electros does : ) ..but do keep it on hand...Goathiker has a recipe she uses for inflammation, diarrhea ect...Im asking her if it would be good for your babies...its concord grape juice and a certain pectin..sounds safe..but I have never used it..Hopefully she will chime in and let us know : )


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

K...I was gonna ask if a children's diarrhea med would be ok for them. As soon as I do only electros, they poop water. On the milk...it's like newborn baby stools.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

pepto is ok for goats...humm...so more watery with electros? what electros are you using?


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Been using pedialyte


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...Hummm..Im going to go look up some stuff...but we should see improvement in the poop..Ill get back on in a bit...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok..I only found one case where giving electros did not help...but they thread ended with no results added..so dont know the out come..but it did say e coli was the problem...

I know it seems we are pulling straws here...ut some times when treating goats you have to listen to what they are telling us...and they are saying they do better on the milk ...sooooooo 

This is what I would try ..... give a bit of pepto for the runs (1/4 tsp) and to coat the tummy.....give 3 oz whole cows milk every 3 hours,its not much but to get the tummy used to it and allow digestion....see how they do... watch closely... ( kind of goes against all I know about treating the runs lol..but lets listen to what the boys are telling us and if the runs get worse..then we can adjust. Since they are doing well otherwise...we are still ok )
A dose of Neomysin for e coli ..

Ok if anyone would do different..please chime in...: ) help gets these boys dry : )


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok. I ordered the neomycin, but the only place I could find the oral suspension didn't offer overnight. It's only priority mail...so 2-3 days. Is there anything natural to help the problem in the mean time? My husband is going to pick up the antitoxin and b complex from the tractor supply out there on his way home tonight.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

Applesauce has a lot of natural pectin in it. I've used it in orphaned kittens to stop the runs and it worked like MAGIC. I would introduce a few cc's of natural applesauce. you can even buy powdered pectin in the canning aisle and sprinkle a *tiny* bit...like a dash over it. It absolutely will not hurt them and it just might do the trick.

I might even turn the applesauce into my electrolye mixture by adding in molasses, a bit of cider vinegar and some salt or baking soda if they respond well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I cant find any natural treatment for e coli..but Sulmet liquid or DiMethox Liquid has a ingredient called Sulfamethoxazole which I believe can help....: ) I do some more reading : )


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I found this info on Goat-link.com
To stop watery scouring: 
By far the best (although a vet prescription is required) is called TMP-SDZ
Generic Name
Trimethoprim/Sulfadiazine
Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole

here is the link... http://goat-link.com/content/view/145/155/

its on cocci but has information to help other symptoms such as the diarrhea.. I was able to pick up a jug of sulfamethoxazole from a supply store..no script was needed....

if the scours doesnot clear up and we go back to electros...lets try this home made one..

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

remember...the main reason ecoli is dangerous is dehydration. While treating the ecoli can porbably be done it is something that may also run it's course. The key thing is to prevent dehydration. The applesauce stuff should help. You can also give a tablespoon or so of whatever liquid you're going with at a time ever 30 minutes to an hour. Check their gums and elasticity of their skin (pinch it up and see how quickly it falls back) if the skin stays "tented" or is slow to slack back, they are getting dehydrated. SubQ fluids can be given to...but are vet Rx. I have had a people nurse be able to get subQ fluids (ringers, I think) if your vets are not helping. 

You are doing great. The medications we give orally can also upset tummies...it's always a tradeoff. Keep 'em warm & keep em hydrated & hopefully their systems will settle down and catch up.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with hallsthirdacrefarm....meds can run havic in their tummies..but sometimes its needed..and runs will dehydrate...as long as we keep enough fluid in them and get the runs to stop they will be fine... agree also with testing them...skin should snap back..if they it settles slowly then more fluid is needed...and she is also correct...YOU are doing great...they would not have made it this far without your quick thinking...: ) we need to keep our focus on getting them dry while keeping the hydrated


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...so I got neomycin from the vet. Says 3rd per 100lbs. What does drench mean? I see alot of the meds say this. They seem good with the milk. Their poop is consistent. It's creamy like newborn babies still. They seem more energetic on the milk. I would like to stick with it. Is that ok? Somebody told my husband to use nutri-drench. Is that good for them? They broke down the gate while I was in town & went to hide in my bathroom...lol my husband thought they ran away. They don't like being locked up.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

this is a syrenge

http://www.nelsonwholesale.com/Sheep-Goat/Drenching-Equipment/View-all-products.html


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok I differ with happybleats when dealing with the runs this is what I would do 

keep them on their normal milk they are use to. 
give 4cc of pepto every 6 hours (dont worry about through the night though). 
treat with neomycin (sorry dont have dosage on hand so follow what the vet said). drench means give orally with syringe into mouth

You should see results within a couple days. Dont expect miracles, their bodies have been through a TON even just today! so just keep at it for a couple days as I stated above and see how they do.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Lol...I really thought it meant like drench them with it. Blonde moment


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

There is so much different info. The nurse at the vet told my husband that as newborns they should have messy poop til they start on solid food. Any thoughts on that?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a link to show you pix of normal baby poop
http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.UUzuRBx3Z0M

There is a lot of difference between goat owners on how to treat...follow your gut...if babies are doing better on milk then that's fine...its better food for them then electros..but if they get super runny ( water) on milk then electros keep them hydrated until their tummies rest...then you restart milk....: )..
Nutra drench is a good source of vitamins...I give my new borns 2 squirts and use it when any goat is having a off day..so yes..its good to give...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh forgot the nutri drench is good -- but to much can cause the runs too so dont give it every day 

stools may differ between kids but soft stools more like doggy poo are normal for a couple days to weeks and then they usually start to firm up and even make yellow berries but not always. So its partially true that it takes till they are on solid food to really develop the normal brown solid berries.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yeah i am going to go aainst the grain here and say put them back onto just milk. With electrolytes for an extended period of time they will poo water becUse thats basically all you are feeding them 

it sounds like they are happy and not acting sick so i would put them vack into nilk and give ome pepto or scours and see how they go. 

E coli will kill within a couple of days makes tjem very very sick indeed i dont think thats what you are dealing with.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Well I treated for ecoli. So if that's what it is...we have it covered. After seeing the pics...def not reg baby poop. They are the sick kind. It's like newborn breastfed baby poops...not at all solid. Their backsides are just soaked. I keep washing their backside & legs & then it's usually covered again next feeding. It is starting to get more creamy though...so a little more solidity. I pray whatever it is I can get it cleared up. I am already so connected to my babies.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You are doing a great job with them..going with your gut and acting fast...just make sure they stay hydrated....this is the main thing...if you haven"t given pepto..go a head and do that...it will coat their tummies and help firm the poop...


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Just did the pepto. Hoping a few doses of this straightens things out


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Me too...these boys deserve a break and so do their mom : )


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The Pepto will turn their stool dark, don't worry it's from the coloring and always happens. 
I don't think that you need to add an acid here like grape juice. I also never take babies off milk unless they refuse it. I would do what Stacy suggested the only thing I would add is a pinch of baking soda to one bottle a day first thing in the morning. And I would get them a chunk of rotted log to start chewing at, The wood will give them the probios they need.


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

Ugh i hate it when vets dont know anything. We have been lucky, our old one was willing to learn and searched books, ect. and our new one use to own Alpines, so were doing pretty good.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Even the other staff cannot believe the way their vet acted. How do you become a vet if you don't care about animals. How can any vet believe any animal is disposable. We have been running a rabbit rescue for yrs and we lose rabbits from time to time... especially babies that mommas reject. Rabbits are impossible to hand feed from birth, but i still try every single time. Praying for a different outcome. I can't imagine a heart so cold to just say give up


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Because to many farmers and vets goats aren't worth the time. Sadly they don't realize how popular they are and how much new resources are out there for them on goat care


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Rrmommy said:


> Even the other staff cannot believe the way their vet acted. How do you become a vet if you don't care about animals. How can any vet believe any animal is disposable. We have been running a rabbit rescue for yrs and we lose rabbits from time to time... especially babies that mommas reject. Rabbits are impossible to hand feed from birth, but i still try every single time. Praying for a different outcome. I can't imagine a heart so cold to just say give up


I've been unable to find a vet in our area within 3 hours that knows anything about goats. The nearest vet that handles them at all told me to bring my kids in at 6 weeks old for disbudding...that's the age you do calves fyi. When I complained to my dh about it he said, "What do you expect? This is cattle country, who's gonna spend $100 or more at the vet on a goat they can replace for $60?" Super sad. :sigh:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The person who goes to vet school and focuses on Goat care will indeed be the most popular vet in the country lol...This situation reminds us why it is important to learn all we can as owners and do as much vetting on our own with the help of good people on forums like this...Until Goats move up on the "importance ladder" it is the only real hope we have in keeping them safe healthy and thriving. Keep learning, keep asking..keep sharing..even though many of us have different ways of handling any given situation....the one thing we all have in common is the well being of our beloved goats and those goats of others : ) 
BTW how are the boys this morning : )


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm so thankful to have a good vet Stacey recommended to me. He really knows his stuff and has a wonderful heart for animals ... hope you find a good one. Hope the babies give you a break, you deserve it! Take a bubble bath, watch a good movie :hug:


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I think I am losing him


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

He's grinding his teeth and throwing his head around...making weird noises and his eyes keep rolling back. He won't move otherwise. His body keeps twitching


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Please help me!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

so he took a turn for the worse this morning? did his temp drop?


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm so sorry. Sometimes there isn't much we can do. If it,s a high or low temp that may give us a clue. You being there for him making him comfortable is a blessing for the little guy.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Idk. I'm at the vet begging for help while he struggles to breathe


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Brought him to my dog vet after no help at the other. They gave him fluids... waiting on Dr to get here


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

So got some iv fluids & a bag to bring home. Other vet was so much more caring and helpful  Sammy is not out of the woods, but is resting comfortably. Dr said he's about a week old...which means we got them the day they were born! Explains alot. Vet says def seems like Ecoli, but he thinks he has a shot...so the fight continues. I am determined...we I'll make it thru this!


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

Yay! That sound so much better than this am. You're a champ, you have one lucky goat


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## tookaleapfarm (Jul 19, 2012)

Fingers crossed for your little guy...it's a roller coaster, but you should take some comfort in knowing that you've been a good steward of the animals in your care.

I have had to have some very frank business-oriented conversations with vets in the area here. At the end of the day, when you can take the emotion of an emergency out of the equation, the vet either wants your business (aka your money) or he doesn't. It shouldn't matter whether "most people" see baby goats as disposable; it should matter what you, _the paying client_, want in regard to your animal. I've gone so far to ask local vets if they want my business or not -- and if not, just tell me so that I know not to bother you with any future business. I haven't had one of them say that they don't want my business when I put it that way.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I told all the other staff just how I felt. If this baby is worth a million dollars to me & I have the money to pay, that is all that should matter to them. My animals...all are our family. They are like more kids for us. We love them all. And I would fight for any of them. I will do anything & everything in my power to pull Sammy thru. I'm emotionally connected already. These baby goats have stolen my heart.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

On a bright note for the day. Lance just had an actual solid poop  so one of my babies is looking very well.


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Rrmommy said:


> On a bright note for the day. Lance just had an actual solid poop  so one of my babies is looking very well.


woo hoo!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry sammy is feeling worse...im not home but send all my thoughts and prayers...


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok...please...looking for some thoughts & advice. Sammy is still on his drip. He took a couple sips of milk. I forced a syringe on electos & his neomycin in him. I thought the milk sips were a good sign, but no improvement. I'm not looking for a 180 in a few hrs, but he is so limp still & feels so cold. I have him lying in my recliner snuggled in a towel & a blanket. But his mouth, legs, and hooves are freezing still. His body temp read 202.8, but he doesn't seem that warm at all. I really feel like he's slipping away :'(


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## animalfamily (Nov 23, 2012)

First I am so sorry for what you are going through, but know that we are all pulling for you and Sammy!!
I know there has been a lot of informtion given here the last day or so and it's a lot to keep track of, especially when you are in "panic mode" so to speak. A few pages back someone mentioned two things: molasses, which I have used before when I need something to keep my goats going while I'm treating for something. The other thing was applesauce to stop the watery stool. I was just wondering if you had a chance to try either of these things?
At this point is sounds as though you are giving him everything you can in the way of meds, so maybe just look at getting a little something in him to sustain him temporarily. At this point what have you got to lose, neither will hurt him. I am by no means an expert and hesitate to say anything, but this is what I would try while I was waiting, for the shot etc. to kick in.
Good luck to the both of you. You are in all our thoughts and prayers!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hows Sammy doing??


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Keep him warm, snuggle him, love him, and know you've done your best. That's all you can do sometimes. <3


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

He's laying grinding his teeth and crying. My heart is breaking.


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## animalfamily (Nov 23, 2012)

He sounds like a tough little guy, every hour he hangs in there is just a better chance he may make it through this.


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

I just wanted to update everyone and give thanks for all of ur help & kind words when I needed them. Unfortunately, Sammy wasn't strong enough to fight anymore and after over 12 hrs of no response from his body...I decided that he was shutting down & probably in shock & I was just prolonging his agony. So I stopped fighting and just held onto him so tight. And just before 5 this morning...little Sammy left us. I'm thankful for the short time we had together. He was such an amazing little guy. I never dreamed goats were so playful and precious. Sammy touched my heart & my family will never forget him :'(


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

So sorry for your loss. We were all rooting for the little guy. You did everything you could and he was the most loved little goat in the world for the short time he was with you. :angelgoat::grouphug:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm so sorry you lost him. I just found this, sorry I missed it but it looks like you had quite a lot of help. Sometimes, I've recommended letting go of a kid that is obviously trying to "cross the rainbow bridge". Sometimes, in our frustration, we don't recognize that and someone needs to tell us "it's Ok to let him go".


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm sorry, I don't have time to go through this whole post...is the other kid still with us? Where are you located? Tell your vet that your goats are pets and get over the "disposable" animal scenario!


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Im sorry for your loss! 
you tryed reallly hard and cared for him. 
and you helped him threw the end <3


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## Rrmommy (Mar 20, 2013)

Di said:


> I'm sorry, I don't have time to go through this whole post...is the other kid still with us? Where are you located? Tell your vet that your goats are pets and get over the "disposable" animal scenario!


Lance seems to be thriving. But I now realize that can change in a moment  so I'm super scared. I'm in northern Pa. And it seems most of his colleagues are shocked by his behavior. The other vet worked with me all day yesterday to turn things around. In the morning, he thought there was hope, but by mid afternoon he said he would support me, but he believed my little guy was too far gone


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sammy and Lance are lucky you found them.even though Sammy couldn't hold on, he knew love before heading home..Lance has a good chance in your hands...it is healthy to know things can change quickly... but don't live in fear of it,keep a watchful eye but enjoy Him...
Sounds like Sammy helped change the mind set of your vet...hopefully he does not forget his lesson..blessings


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## animalfamily (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm so sorry Rrmommy. I know how painful it is to fight so hard and not win the battle. Just knowing Sammy spent his time here loved, cuddled and comforted, should bring you a little peace. They say everything happens for a reason. Sadly, you've endured the worst and now you can even more so appreciate the best with litttle Lance. You now have a vet you know you can go to in times of emergency. Some new light was shed on your other vets poor atitude. Lastly, maybe you made a few friends here in the process and found that you're never really alone in times of need [at least not here anyway]!
Take care and enjoy your little Lance. He will be a special comfort to you now.


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