# Milking, Dam Raising & Showing



## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

Is it possible to dam raise babies and maintain a nice udder... we dam raised last year and when the mommas got to the fair their udders had lost their fullness... 

also... all of our boys turned out super sweet... but we are left with two- 1 year old does that are flighty(and of course have nice qualities)... is it possible to have does that aren't flighty when dam raising... I have 5 kids and we spend a lot time with our goats... but those little females just shy away from us.. 


we are due in a week or so and are trying to make a solid plan before babies arrive... we hate to pull babies from mommas because they like to be mommas... but my girls also want to make sure they have easy to handle baby does and that their mommas keep nice udders until fair in august... we are using a milk machine this year....

would love to hear any advice you might have... thanks..
also we have a saanen doe due after our nigerian does... i don't want her babies to be flighty either...


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

I let mine completely dam raise, and last years twin girls are the sweetest little girls... I think it might depend on the mom a lot. How nice she is and all.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are serious about showing, you probably want to pull the babies. Some kids just have those personalities that aren't friendly no matter what you do but bottle feeding can certainly help.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

*I totally believe in dam raising*

I dam raise our babies, plus I bought a dam raised weanling doe at 8 weeks a few years ago. She was shy when we met her at the breeders. You could touch her if you were sneaky about it, but she wasn't friendly.

Got her home & she was totally feral. Hand feeding grain ect., and she became the sweetest, tamest of all my does as an adult. I trained her to the milk stand from baby on, putting her up there and touching her little teats while she ate, and she was also one of my most patient milkers.

I have dam babies go through wild phases too and then the next week they are all over me, so...just because they seem wild at one point doesn't mean you can't turn them into really tame animals. Just my two cents


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

tayet.... the mommas are super sweet... and their little boy babies last year were super sweet too... just had really shy doelings that will be 1 pretty soon

ksalvagno... my girls show for 4h and we are thinking of trying an adga show also... i wouldn't say that we are all about showing but or fair doesn't segragate nigerians from the larger breeds during showing so having a deflated udder last year was pretty sad for them.. they just want to maintain a nice udder and keep their mommas happy and have doelings that aren't super shy and skittish.. 

thecowboysgirl... our little doelings have never come out of their shy phase..but with your situation maybe we can separate them and really work with them and see if they turn around... we are just afraid this will happen all over again with the new doelings..


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

Our Boer's dam raise all of their kids unless someone is having issues. We just spend a lot of time with them and the kids are friendly for us. Most of last years kids wont leave me along out in the barn. They run to the gate for attention. This year's kids aren't super friendly yet but once weaned we'll mess with them a lot and they'll calm down and be fine. 

I bottle raise my Nubians and they are overly friendly. But it helps with the boer kids seeing them run to us they learn we aren't the bad guys.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I had a whole group of dam raised babies this year that were the friendliest kids ever. We spend a lot of time with them, but, it was really remarkable that the whole group was that friendly.

I have been wondering this same thing. I think I'm going to do a "hybrid" plan this year. Most does will dam raise up to 2 kids. These girls will be separated from their kids at night at 2 weeks old, I will milk does in the a.m. and then let them feed kids. The does I decide to show will not dam raise...I will bottle feed those kids and milk the dams. I want to try this plan this year. And, then next year I will refine my plan and schedule a linear appraisal. 

I'm going to be sure I get everyone sheared and photographed, also, for once. I'm always so impressed with those great pics you all have on your websites. I know that is quite a job!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

oh yeah, I think the boys are much friendlier then the girls, at least in the beginning (generally speaking of course).


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Last year all of our kids were dam-raised, we spend a TON of time with them, and they are all extremely darling 

Yes, you can dam-raise and show, I know of many people who do and their does udders are some of the nicest and most competitive I have seen. I would consider, however, teaching them to take a bottle so that if there is a particular baby that is rough on momma's udder, you can bottle-feed that kid.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

If you want to show, I'd pull the kids and bottle feed. In the long run, your does udders will stay way nicer and they'll be much more competitive. All of my dam raised babies in the past weren't friendly at all...If you have lots of time to spend with them, then I imagine they'll be plenty friendly, if you don't have much time, then they won't be. Just depends on your situation.


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

bit of everything... thanks for sharing how your guys did!.... if we dam raise we will want to spend more time with our doelings.. maybe even bring them inside more and play with them... 

di....funny how the boys are!... i hope your plan goes well for you this year!.. always hard to try to figure what works best..... we separated at night and milked in the morning last year... then weaned one of the does long before fair time.. and lost the fullness in her udder for showing... 

threehavens.... i'm really happy to hear that people are successful at dam raising and showing!!! .. at how many weeks old do people typically wean the kids from dam raised mothers? .. and one of our does had 3 kids last year.. we are expecting at least 3 maybe 4... would we allow her to raise all of those kiddos and still be able to show?

rmadairygoats......we should be able to have the time to put into them..... wonder if we couldn't of done a lot better with our doelings and spending time with them now that we know more?.. if they were going to be bottle raised, do you let them get the colostrum from mom for first few days or do you pull them immediately?... we tried to give a bottle last year to one of the kids but they wanted nothing to do with it.. (we didn't let the kid get realy hungry because we weren't trying to bottle raise)...


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

shasta05 said:


> threehavens.... i'm really happy to hear that people are successful at dam raising and showing!!! .. at how many weeks old do people typically wean the kids from dam raised mothers? .. and one of our does had 3 kids last year.. we are expecting at least 3 maybe 4... would we allow her to raise all of those kiddos and still be able to show?


Yup! A lot of breeders around my area dam-raise and show, though I have nothing at all against bottle raising. It's all about what works for you 

Eight weeks is the youngest you should wean. If I was planning to show one year, I would teach the kids to take a bottle as well as nurse, that way you can let the udder fill up for the show. Also, make sure the kids aren't nursing one side more than the other - that can make the udder lopsided.

If she has four, you will need to supplement with a bottle. You can still leave them on mom if you supplement. If you had four I would supplement at least two. Even with triplets, sometimes one needs a little extra.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I pull them immediately...it seems to be very hard to get them on a bottle once they have nursed from 'the real deal.' It's also harder on mom if you let her keep the babies for the first couple days and then take them away. It's easier on her if she never meets them.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

RMADairyGoats said:


> I pull them immediately...it seems to be very hard to get them on a bottle once they have nursed from 'the real deal.' It's also harder on mom if you let her keep the babies for the first couple days and then take them away. It's easier on her if she never meets them.


If you want to completely bottle raise this is the way to do it :thumb: I was more aiming for keeping them with mom while still giving them the bottle, since that's what I would do. BUT, Riley is more experienced than me when it comes to bottle feeding


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

threehavens and rmadairygoats...... it does seem less mean to pull the kids at birth than letting her bond and them pulling them!... how does the doe typically do post birth if she never see her kids? do they get depressed at all? ...

has anyone ever let the doe have the boy kids and pull any does immediately? ... assuming she has doe and buck kids?... 

thank you for responding... feel like getting better direction for when they deliver soon...


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

The breeder of my doe, Gypsy, pulled kids immediately. I don't think they even really notice, since that is what they are used to. She doesn't let them see or lick them. Less traumatic that way if you want to completely bottle-feed


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Here is what I did this year but like all the other poster's have said. Its what works for you. Ive pulled babies right at birth before, and I had mom's who mopped around for days calling for their babies and looking for them. This year I have been letting the mom keep them for about four days, and then pulling them and putting them on a bottle. Out of 10 babies so far I have only had one fight me over the bottle and when she got good and hungry she took it like a champ. The mom's didnt seem to be that bad about calling for them, and they got to spend a few days with their babies, and it made my heart not feel so heavy about taking babies from mom. I think it kills me worse then it does them. lol

But I did have one goat breeder around here that really shows and wins in the ring, if I wanted nice udders then I needed to pull the babies and bottle feed, cause as the kids getting older they get really rough on the moms udders. I was told by her that is causes ligments to break that holds the udder in place and then you start getting saggy udders. That the attachments look bad on. So this year I am going to do mostly bottle feeding, its alot of work, but I do like my friendly kids, and sometimes no matter how much time you spend with dam raised kids, they still dont turn out friendly. I dont know about anyone else but I cant stand chasing a goat around, I got a couple right now that might end up sold, cause of that.

But again this is just my opinion and how I do things here.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

Mine really don't notice when you take their kids, as long as they don't ever meet them. They call out here and there for the first couple days and then are fine and forget about it completely. Taking the kids away also builds a very special bond between you and your doe(s). Because you are what's taking the does milk, she'll think of you as her baby, and will sometimes try and 'mother' you. It's cute


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

threehavens, walnutgrove, and rmadairygoats..... thank you so much for your help!!! ...... i know ultimately we have to do what is best for us... but it really helps to hear how things have worked for you guys and other... i also think that it will hurt me more than my does to pull babies from them!!! and those cries would break my heart.... we just love all of the goats and love the experience of 4h and showing.. and want to do what's best for all of it... but really have to consider keeping a nice udder and having doelings that are not so wild... we feel like one of our doelings has nice qualities for showing but worry that her shyness will make her unfun to show/breed/ milk... unless we can magically turn that around... 

i will be showing all of this to my daughter's this weekend and see what they think and try to make up a plan for the kids that feels right... 

really appreciate your help!!


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

ohhhh i noticed that you were in northern california, were? We are in california and if your interested in an ADGA show we can spot you out a few. This year were going to Red Bluff (nvdga show) Watsonville (cccdgga show) our stanislaus county fair and California state fair. Maybee a few more, nvr know with us!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I can tell you, our dam raised babies are all very friendly. Sometimes it's personality but if you spend lots of time playing with them it really helps  No matter what you choose, I hope you have fun with this new venture!


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

lamanchaacres.... yes we are in northern california... actually the very most northern part of ca... we found a show in grants pass, or... that is in may, i think... that we are looking into... last year we also came across a show in roseburg, or... we wish we would've known about that one.. looked fun... 
 i have been checking adge website for shows that are reasonably close to us and grants pass is only one we found... would love to know more about shows you are describing... if timing works it would be fun to get our goats involved.. 

threehavens... thanks so much for your input... i love to know that there is hope for dam raising and having friendly doelings and still be able to show... we really have make sure we know what we should prepare for this year to have a successful season and friendlier doelings... i can only think that my girls and i must spend many more hours playing with our doelings than we had last year!!...


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Just wanted to make sure everyone knows I wasnt meaning dam raised kids cant be friendly. But out of all my kids dam raised last year, I had one friendly one, and when people came to buy them, they complained about them being so unfriendly. So I was just saying for me the dam raising wasnt working here. I was having to many shy goats, that everytime I touched them I thought they was going to jump out of their skin. lol But I do know dam raised kids can be friendly, maybe I just dont have the time to spend with them to make as friendly.


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

i can relate to what you are saying by how our dam raised doelings turned out... it just seems like there are enough people that end up with shy doelings that are dam raised to take it into consideration... but also not to discount dam raising because there are more people having success with spending a lot of time with their kids.... hard to say what works best... other than do what works best for your herd??


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

That's it exactly, what works perfectly for one person doesn't for another. If I couldn't spend as much time with my herd (stay at home mom and little sister help too) I would supplement with a bottle to make sure they were all friendly


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

I have been watching this post closely because, I am just getting doelings to show and raise dairy goats this year. I want to competitively show dairy goats, but I'm afiaid it will break my heart to pull them from their moms. I just don't see though how you could get a doeling as friendly and aclimitized to humans if you dont , because if you bottle feed, they recognize you as their mother and will always look to you.


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## VincekFarm (Jun 27, 2011)

To put in my 2cents... I dam raise and show my does competitively. The kids do have their moments where they will be a bit wild acting at times but after their first freshening they seem to calm down and are quite friendly. I also haven't noticed my does udders "loosing their attachments". I feel that if an udder can't hold up for what nature intended it to do than it never was a good udder to start with.


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

VincekFarm
It is good to hear this information. I do agree with you that if an udder cant stand up to what it was made for then maybe it shouldn't be winning top of class. How do you do milk evals though. I am really new at this and don't know much if anything but what I have read. Also do you think it makes a difference on breed? It looks as if you raise nigerian dwarfs. I have started with Nubians.


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## nigi1967 (Nov 2, 2012)

I show and have done both bottle and dam raising. There are pros and cons to both. I raise alpine, lamancha, and nigerians. If i dam raise, i let the kids nurse but i check udders every evening and milk out what is left. At 2 months u r forced to milk anyway but i usually bottle raise kids from first fresheners so they get used to being milked. All kids are worked with to lead and be set up (as if they were in the show ring) for several weeks before the first show. I actually find that dam raised kids behave better in the ring because they do not have the desire to jump all over you like bottle kids. They ARE usually a little more difficult to teach to set up but they usually catch on. As far as udders go, there are a lot of big show herds that dam raise. We freshen does in Feb and are still showing in Nov. U have to let those dams that nurse fill up every so often to stretch the udder out. Some does will not produce very long to keep a show udder so u have to learn which does u need to freshen later in the spring to keep that udder looking full during show season.


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## nigi1967 (Nov 2, 2012)

Also, when i say a show udder, i do not mean overuddering a doe. I just mean some does just don't have a long lactation so they won't be enough full even @ 12 hours to be competitive for a whole 9-10 months.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

It's so interesting to read all the different ways people do things and what works for them ... great info :thumb:


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

yes this is great info. It sounds like there just isn't one answer and it might vary between does.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

It varies with each herd, because each herd is different, and the needs of each person is different as well.  It can be confusing when you're starting out, but don't be afraid to experiment and find what works for you


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## rdmtnranch (Mar 4, 2013)

I obviously have a lot to learn. It will be a fun adventure.


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## shasta05 (Jun 30, 2011)

i really like the latest information that everyone has posted... especially about the udder attachment holding up with nursing... and maybe realizing that some does may not keep a nice udder for as long as you may need for showing.. timing of kidding could play a big part in having a better udder for show time?...


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