# Please help with understanding ADGA and IDGA!



## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

Reply to: OK, I am new to registering goats, and trying to sort everything out! I became a member or the ADGA and the IDGA a few days ago. I have not gotten my ID number or tatto code from either of them yet. But here is my question and I will try and make it as simple as I can.  I have 7 nubian does, two of them are ADGA registered already and I have one alpine and two alpine/nubian crosses. I would lke to get the others registered as NOA or grade and experimental through the ADGA and IDGA and breed up from there. None of these does were born on my farm, so I do not know their sires or dams, and I did not recive a bill of sale from their previous owner but I do know their date of births. Will I be able to register them grade through either place and if so how do I go about doing so? also for one last question, one of my does I purchased is already registered through the ADGA but the previous owner would not give me her papers or a bill of sale,(Why I have no idea) this doe was also breed to a Hoanbu Registered buck when I got her, but I have no service memo of this breeding. Is there any way I could reg. her as grade and pretty much just start over even though she is already reg. as a purebred. Also is there any way I can reg. her through the idga?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would need bill of sale for ADGA. I don't know anything about IDGA.

If the seller refused to give you a bill of sale or transfer or registration paper, then that goat can't be registered. Probably the only chance of registering is NOA. You would have to have signed papers for grade.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you got the short end of the stick with these goats if you didn't get any bill of sales and registration papers.


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

Well, thats what I kinda figured would be the outcome. I thought when I purchased my first two goats 1 and a half years ago that I would not need to register my goats and that it was a waste of time and money....but as goats are like potato chips, before I know it I have 10, 3 being ADGA registered and the rest all wonderful, healthy, GREAT milk producers but no proof of purchase or no papers. Part of this is my fault for being dumb and just not knowing enough about the goat world. Where I live there are no goat dairys just people that have a wild crazy sale barn goats in there back yard and mixed up meat goats that get sent to the auction when they have "made their weight". So the nubians that I have I traveled many miles to get them and I guess they are worth more to me than what a piece of paper or others say. Is there anything wrong with having and selling unregistered goats? I know some cringe at the thought of having "grade" or less than grade goats but in my opinon some unregistered goats are just as good milk producers as registered ones. But being that I want to be a good goat owner and knowing that registered kids are more likley to have a better homes, how do I go about applying them for NOA registry? Thats a start right?


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

You're right, NOA is a start, and a good one. I started out with unregistered goats, but did eventually sell them and started over again with registered stock. Like you, I felt like I could sell kids to better homes and I also like the advantage of being able to track pedigrees, traits, production stats. so long as they conform to the breed standards you register them under. I think you have to have another ADGA member sign that they conform. Think of it this way, your customers looking for quality animals won't care that they are registered- but having them registered opens up a lot more potential buyers. Look up NOA on ADGA,I believe you have to have another member sign a letter saying that they meet the standard.


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the information! I stumbled across this forum and it had a lot of good info for new goat owners. I just want to do whats best for my girls and their offspring.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with selling unregistered goats. What is popular in your area? What will sell best? You can charge more for registered goats. 

In my area, everyone wants to show. So I need ADGA registered goats so people can show them. So I have registered goats but I do have one unregistered one and her kids sell just fine too. I just don't get as much for them.


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

I live in the APP. mountains of NC. People here all raise boer or boer crosses for the slaughter and most dont even think about registering goats. The few nubians I even seen for sale when asking if they were registered the owners just laughed saying the slaughter house doesnt care about papers or a fancy pedigree. I had to drive 3-4 hours away to get decenct looking unregistered does. I could kick my self in the butt for not getting a bill of sale for them, but you live and learn. I just want to give people the option of buying nice quality papered goats with out having to drive cross country and pay the high prices that other states have. Most unreg. dairy goats in this area are priced from $100-$150. But that soley depends if they "have a lot of meat on their bones"  A very "meaty" doe can bring upwards of $200 at a animal auction.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

If any of the does are already tattooed I don't think you can register them NOA. They have to be tattooed with your tattoo's (like you raised them). You could tattoo them with your tattoo's somewhere else (like in the tail) and as long as you don't show them it won't matter that they have two sets of tattoo's. The mix doe probably can't be registered NOA since she doesn't conform to any breed standard. 

I don't know for sure how ADGA's NOA program works, but I think their kids will still be registered 50% (assuming they were bred to a registered buck) even if the does are recorded. If that is the case it isn't worth it IMO to register NOA unless you just really want to have a piece of paper with their name on it. If I had these, I would get a registered buck to breed them to, register the doe kids as 50% and go from there. Once their doe kids are breeding age and have kidded, I would sell all of the grade momma's, keep the doe kids from your 50% does that would be registered 75% and do this over again until your kids reach American status. 

Can you try to contact the people you got those two does from and get their papers or at least the service memo for the buck?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

correct: NOA is only good if you need/want to show that goat. But for the sake of registering kids it wont make the kids any more of a % then 50% even if you go through the trouble of NOAing your does. Bucks cant NOT be NOA so you would need a registered buck to breed your does to and then you can register kids as grade/% 

No you dont have to register - and its totally up to what your market is and what you plant to market to. Since they are good milkers, I would market as home milkers. But if you cant sell kids then you may want to get a boer buck to breed them to and sell the kids as meat


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks everyone, I have one more question. I bought a registered doe that was already bred to that owners registered buck. When I go to register her kids, will I need a service memo from the sires owner saying she was bred to their buck at the time they owned her? I just had her transfered over to me so when I fill out the application in box 10 where it asks "Owner of the dam at the date of service," should I put the last owners name, ID number and information or mine now that I own her?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes you need a service memo -- 

when was she bred? and when was the date of sale on the does papers?

If she was bred BEFORE the date of sale then you need to put in the previous owners info and the kids will have her herd name. If the date of sale was before the breeding then no you put your info and you put your herd name.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

example: I purchased a doe in mid december - she was bred in early december. So the kids will have the previous owners herd name and info but my tattoos. 

Now I would never ask this but if the breeder had backdated the sale to the date of breeding or before then the kids would have my herd name. To me that was not necessary nor would the breeder have wanted that.


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## Macyllehub (Jan 6, 2013)

Can I say how truly overwhelming it is to go through the ADGA processing right now. I've called them twice and they act like I'm dumb for asking questions. In our case, our doe is registered already and I needed to transfer her ownership to me. And then she kidded, so I needed a service memo (which I got) then I learned I needed to tattoo them, and and and...... 

I haven't sent in anything because I'm TOTALLY overwhelmed with it.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

macyllehub yes its overwhelming but you will get it.

Whats your specific questions? PM me I can help you more then likely -- and Im friendly


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

I am so glad that someone else is going through the same thing! It is so confusing trying to learn all the rules and such with ADGA, I've tried emailing them but not gotten a reply yet. thanks Stacey for all the information. I'm glad I know the breeder well so I can go back and get a service memo!


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