# I'm a ost kidding newbie...



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

And stuck in 'deer-in-the-headlights' mode! Please be gentle, this was NOT how we planned this to go down. Life has happened, and it threw a monkey wrench into everything we'd planned. 
I've got 2 Nigora does (mother and daughter), both probably expecting in mid-May to early June. The mother is a GREAT mama, the daughter is a first timer, and I am entirely unprepared for them. As in: I got NUTTIN. With this blasted virus going around, almost all our available funds for this got redirected, and I don't know what to do/get/have on hand, or how to prioritize it. Please pretend you have a barn with 2 stalls, a pair of well-fed, happy, freshly copper-bolused, expecting does, and nothing else. What do I need, and how should I prioritize it, please?


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Apparently, I'm so lost, I lost the L in my title!


----------



## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

iodine for dipping the cords after birth, molasses for the doe, selenium


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Thank you! Molasses? Is blackstrap ok? How much (they're small - maybe 45lbs, normal weight), how often, & (please) why?
Equipment needed? Towels for drying/ warming them, if needed, sterile shears for cutting the cords?


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Selenium, if nothing else, get selenium. What do they get for minerals besides the copper bolus? Selenium can be had in Replamin Plus paste, Selenium/E gel, Bo-Se injection , or MultiMin90 injection. Those last two are Rx.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Selenium, if nothing else, get selenium. What do they get for minerals besides the copper bolus? Selenium can be had in Replamin Plus paste, Selenium/E gel, Bo-Se injection , or MultiMin90 injection. Those last two are Rx.


Thank you! They're getting selenium as part of a goat-specific multi-mineral self-fed supplement, in a bucket, plus baking soda, also on self feed. I looked at the ingredients list, and selenium is pretty far down on the list, and I don't think they're getting quite enough, tbh. We've got some fish tail going, in the younger one, the mama's is fine. Should I expect the dosage to be listed? I asked for it, at the local feed stores, and no one even carries it.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Nommie Bringeruvda Noms said:


> Thank you! They're getting selenium as part of a goat-specific multi-mineral self-fed supplement, in a bucket, plus baking soda, also on self feed. I looked at the ingredients list, and selenium is pretty far down on the list, and I don't think they're getting quite enough, tbh. We've got some fish tail going, in the younger one, the mama's is fine. Should I expect the dosage to be listed? I asked for it, at the local feed stores, and no one even carries it.


Fish tail is copper def. and do not leave out baking soda free choice... they make their own bicarb.

Towels lots of towels, washcloths, infant nasal sucker thinger, iodine for dipping cords, fresh bedding in the kidding stall and i always do a realllly good clean to that stall beforehand and only put the doe in when she is in labor, thermometer, selenium/vite e gel, bucket of warm soapy water, scissors, dental floss for tying off cords if needed, flashlight or lantern or something for light, cleaned empty feed bags to put under the doe and comes in handy for putting kid on if needed, molasses for the doe after and warm water to add a glug or two of the molasses to.. it gives her a lil jump of energy and she will most likely drink a LOT of it, snacks for you while you are waiting for the big moment, water based lube, garbage bag, small cup for dipping cords in the iodine, 12or 24 oz soda bottle empty and clean and pritchard nipple (you have to cut the end off the nipple and do tinny cuts cause the hole gets big fast), colostrum replacer just in case you need it, grain and hay for the doe she will be hungry most likely, syringe or three, phone numbers of goat friends that may can help if you need, vet phone number, pring out kidding positions and how to help if you need to. I keep all my stuff in a reusable grocery bag so i can just grab and go or i can have hubby run get it really easily.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Wow!! I'm glad I've got time to assemble my kit! Some of it will be easy - some, I'm unsure... is a soda bottle the only thing the Pritchard nipple will fit on? What are the syringes for - the selenium (I know how to do sub-cu shots, if needed)?


Sfgwife said:


> pring out kidding positions


? I'm not sure what this means...
I'm not the panicky type, by any means, and I've had a few kids of my own (2 with no pain killers, so was coherent, lol & one at home, so not *TOTALLY* unaware of how it works) but this will be my first experience in midwifery, other than chicks, bunnies, puppies & kittens - so, I'm a tad nervous.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

When should I give the selenium? And to mama, kids, or both?


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Nommie Bringeruvda Noms said:


> Wow!! I'm glad I've got time to assemble my kit! Some of it will be easy - some, I'm unsure... is a soda bottle the only thing the Pritchard nipple will fit on? What are the syringes for - the selenium (I know how to do sub-cu shots, if needed)?
> ? I'm not sure what this means...
> I'm not the panicky type, by any means, and I've had a few kids of my own (2 with no pain killers, so was coherent, lol & one at home, so not *TOTALLY* unaware of how it works) but this will be my first experience in midwifery, other than chicks, bunnies, puppies & kittens - so, I'm a tad nervous.


The syringe if you need syringe colostrum into a weak kid. No needle. Sel/vit e a pea sized drop in the roof of the kids mouth if weak. Mom should already be getting it.

Yes a soda bottle is the only bottle a pritchard will fit on. You can buy a bottle but the soda ones are cheap a d throw away when they get yucky.

Birthing positions of kids. You may need help your doe for malppositioned kids. Print the pic.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Nommie Bringeruvda Noms said:


> Thank you! They're getting selenium as part of a goat-specific multi-mineral self-fed supplement, in a bucket, plus baking soda, also on self feed. I looked at the ingredients list, and selenium is pretty far down on the list, and I don't think they're getting quite enough, tbh. We've got some fish tail going, in the younger one, the mama's is fine. Should I expect the dosage to be listed? I asked for it, at the local feed stores, and no one even carries it.


Is it a "loose mineral" (the consistency of sand) or is it a molasses based tub they lick/chew at? If you tell us the brand and product name, we can let you know if it is a good option. But regardless, like 99% of goats need more selenium above and beyond a good loose mineral. So if you can get Bo-Se injection from your vet, give it 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, or one of the other selenium source options I listed above, we can help you with dosing if needed.

Fish tail is definitely a sign of copper deficiency rather than selenium, so I'm glad you've got the copper boluses in to them!

The other piece of information I'll offer is that unlike human, dog, or cat births, the pushing portion of a goat birth is completed much more quickly. Once the doe is bearing down hard, a kid should be completely delivered in less than 30 minutes. If not, it's an indication that the kid is malpresented or the doe is not dialated properly. Typically a doe will lay flat on her side and her back legs will go completed rigid while she grunts and pushes, a few does will do this standing up. That's when you should note the time to make sure deliveries occur in a timely manner.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I know with all the things going on, vets are reluctant to do farm calls, but do you have any one local with goats to possibly help in an emergency? There are a lot of YouTube videos (I think!) that might help.


----------



## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

The molasses is to add to her water after kidding to give her a boost of energy. Blackstrap is great.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, really good advice here.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> View attachment 176065
> 
> 
> The syringe if you need syringe colostrum into a weak kid. No needle. Sel/vit e a pea sized drop in the roof of the kids mouth if weak. Mom should already be getting it.
> ...


THANK YOU!! This is something I had no idea of.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Is it a "loose mineral" (the consistency of sand) or is it a molasses based tub they lick/chew at? If you tell us the brand and product name, we can let you know if it is a good option. But regardless, like 99% of goats need more selenium above and beyond a good loose mineral. So if you can get Bo-Se injection from your vet, give it 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, or one of the other selenium source options I listed above, we can help you with dosing if needed.
> 
> Fish tail is definitely a sign of copper deficiency rather than selenium, so I'm glad you've got the copper boluses in to them!
> 
> The other piece of information I'll offer is that unlike human, dog, or cat births, the pushing portion of a goat birth is completed much more quickly. Once the doe is bearing down hard, a kid should be completely delivered in less than 30 minutes. If not, it's an indication that the kid is malpresented or the doe is not dialated properly. Typically a doe will lay flat on her side and her back legs will go completed rigid while she grunts and pushes, a few does will do this standing up. That's when you should note the time to make sure deliveries occur in a timely manner.


It's the loose stuff, like sand. And, lol - my legs stiffened out, too! Thank you, SO MUCH!!!


----------



## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

How did your does do?
I would like to see a picture of these Nigora goats!
Please?


----------



## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Please post some pictures. Please. Please. Please.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

The first doe (who is also the mama of the 2nd doe) had a single buckling on the evening of mother's day, during a cold snap. We weren't expecting either of them to freshen for a couple more weeks, so weren't even on the lookout. She rejected him, and we didn't have any colostrum replacer on hand. In addition, we only discovered him alive because my husband had to take his puppy outside an extra time, before bed, about 10:30 that night. He heard a tiny sound coming from the barn, as they walked by, and came to get me (and get his huge puppy back into the house, so she wouldn't scare the goats). 
When we got back out there, the poor little guy was pushed into a cold, wet, dirty corner, crying weakly. I (gently) scooped him up, dried him off with a towel, and tucked him into my shirt, to warm him. She wouldn't let him suckle, and wouldn't let me express any decent amount of colostrum, sitting down on my hands, evey time I'd try. With no stanchion, my only means of keeping her still was to tie her to the stall rail, and it didn't help. I gave them both a decent dose of nutridrench.
A friend suggested whole milk to tide him over until the feed store opened in the morning, so I did that, and took him to my bed, to keep him warm (by then, it was about 1:30am on Monday, and I'd been up since 3am, on Sunday), and set my alarm for 2hrs, to feed him some more milk. He wasn't suckling well, so I was massaging his throat, to get him to swallow. Hubs was amazing, and got the colostrum in the morning as soon as the store was open, and we did everything we could, including calling the vet for advice, but the little guy was never able to stand for more than a second or two, and even then, only with support. He died 2 1/2 days later. 
The 2nd doe still hasn't gone into labor, and I'm thinking now that maybe her mama was more effective at keeping 'dad' at bay, than I thought - but, they were all together for a good while (4months!), so we're still watching her. 

As far as pics, my profile pic is my buck. I haven't been up to taking any pics, lately. Maybe I'll do some, in a couple days.


----------



## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am so sorry you lost the little buckling! :hug:
Farming is so hard sometimes. I found that out this year. My doe’s kidding went well, but the buckling is a cryptorchid, and that was the second time that happened to us in only 2 freshenings (2 different sets of parents). We love him anyways, but he won’t be able to become a pet, as we had wanted.
I hope all is well with your does, and that you will have a better birthing experience next time!
Your buck is so cute and goofy looking!
Pictures would be nice if you find the time.


----------



## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Sorry baby didnt make it. You fought so hard for him. He knew you were doing what you could with what you had.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry.


----------



## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Thank you - yes, Kola is a very sweet, affectionate, silly, charming young man!
John wasn't really looking forward to baby goats - until we brought this beautiful, ill- fated little boy into our bed, to try to pull him through. The next couple days, he was going around singing, "Baby GOAT, doot do do doot do do!" We both bawled like babies, when he died. I grew up hunting and farming, and I think goats and sheep are the only critters I've not raised, culled, dressed out, and eaten (besides horses, ponies, donkeys, cats and dogs. I've raised them, but - not eating them, ever!) You'd think that by 56, after all those critters, it would be easier. But, it's not. It just gets harder. While we were trying so hard to save him, we forgot about the brand new baby chicks that our broody hen had adopted, and they ran out of water. We lost 4 of the 10, in the middle of fighting to save that beautiful little buckling. He was shiny, silky, silvery & white, with such perfect, incredibly soft little curls, and the sweetest face...
I'll try to figure out how to put pics into a post.


----------

