# help pack rats invading



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

So we moved on to this 100-110 yr old farm house in March with more pack rats and grey diggers than I think I've ever seen. The first 4 mos I trapped 1-2 mice a week in th ehouse! The shop is out of control.Due to small acreage goats are in large paddocks and mainly hay fed. Chickens are in a coop and run, due to severe predators, *****, coyotes, and cougars. We lost 5-6 chickens in June to a ****, he's gone thanks to a well placed 22. I don't really want to have cats here, nor does my hubby. We, again thanks to 22 have thinned out the destructive grey diggers- only thinned out mind you. BUT, the packrats are horrible, and mice of course. We had thinned the pack rat pop during the summer only to have it explode again. We're using traps and poison (where the livestock can't get to it). In the shop, I'm going to throw some under the house and in the attic- no I don't want them rotting but eating wires and being in my living area is unacceptable! I've even had to place poison in my car trunk! NOW it's the chicken feed! I fill their giant feeder which use to last a good 2 weeks. Two days ago hubby stepped out to see a pack rat through the opening in the coop and again met a 22. I went out while doing water and eggs today and the amount that should've lasted over 2 wks is gone in about 4 days! I can't afford to feed them too and don't know what else to do.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

sticky traps work great but for that kinda problem I would borrow some barn cats good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can you get an old chest freezer to keep feed in? That should keep them out of the feed.

You need several barn cats. If you don't want cats, then you will probably have to redouble your efforts with all the different kinds of rat traps.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

We have lots of traps. I have most feed in cans, or in my extra milking area (mouse proof- well as of yet). The biggest problem is the actual chicken feeder that I usually fill, then I started filling it half way to see if I was crazy or not. I told my husband this afternoon, I may put 'some' in the feeder in the morning until I get the amount they will consume during the day; leaving it empty at night and see what that does.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Look around where the chicken feeder is for holes. You can put a brick or other heavy object in the hole to block it off. Then get a trap and place it where the chickens can't get to it. For rats you can use the small havaheart traps but mice will go through and laugh as they're doing it. If you live near or surrounded by fields a dozen cats is just about the only option. You don't have to feed them so they will earn they're keep.

Another option I've heard works is to put fox urine down.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

We decided the cats were the lesser of two evils. Still trap an occasional **** or 'possum, but they aren't that big a problem yet. 'Course we haven't got our chickens yet either.

Bob


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Arkie said:


> We decided the cats were the lesser of two evils. Still trap an occasional **** or 'possum, but they aren't that big a problem yet. 'Course we haven't got our chickens yet either.
> 
> I hear you just wait until you add chickens


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's an idea. Put a rimmed tub bigger around then the chicken feeder bottom under where it hangs. Put a couple bricks to let the rats up. Make the feeder 4 or 5 inches above it. Fill it half full of water. The chickens will all perch on the tub rim to eat. The rats will reach for the food and fall in the water...


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I had lots of mice in my bathroom my first year hear. Then I got a couple of 9 month old kittens from a neighbor. I have only seen one mouse in the house since getting the 2 cats.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Goathiker's post reminded me of these;

http://fivegallonideas.com/extremely-effective-mouse-trap/

I've never used one, but I've seen positive comments about them on various other forums I've visited in the past.

Bob


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## 15jreed (Jan 26, 2013)

Problem with cats is possibility of cats disease ( autoplamosis I think is actual term). This will cause abortions.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

15jreed said:


> Problem with cats is possibility of cats disease ( autoplamosis I think is actual term). This will cause abortions.


I think its toxoplasmosis and it also causes problems with developing fetus's in humans.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/toxoplasmosis.html


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Prefer my small terriers to cats. Plus I keep 2 hen turkeys in with my chickens. I've seen the turkeys digging up and eating pinkies out of rats nests and killing and eating mice. They do help some and give me awesome omelets. If these are actually woods rats (pack rats) not Norway rats, they don't live in hole dens. The difference is whether they have a hairy tail or not.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I use D-Con (the kind that the animals can't get into) and barn cats....I have 3.
Haven't seen a mouse since adding D-Con to the cat populous..

But they do get trapped in buckets easily.....put a string across the top of a bucket and fill it halfway with water.Put some peanut butter in the middle of the string...sounds mean,I know but I think of the health of my family and animals and then the mice got to go....don't know what to do about the rats...


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Prefer my small terriers to cats. Plus I keep 2 hen turkeys in with my chickens. I've seen the turkeys digging up and eating pinkies out of rats nests and killing and eating mice. They do help some and give me awesome omelets. If these are actually woods rats (pack rats) not Norway rats, they don't live in hole dens. The difference is whether they have a hairy tail or not.


These rats have hairy tails.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I purchased an electric rat trap at Tractor Supply. It is a little bigger than a good size rat! It runs on 2 "D" batteries (I think, or "c"). You put pnut butter on the inside at the far end. Push a switch to turn on and
the rats walk in, get zapped, die almost instantly. Works great! My original batteries worked on 19 rats, 2 mice and a stupid chipmunk. 
No poison, cats or snap traps. Turn it off, dump the carcas out and turn it back on. I only have one, they were around $35 on sale.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

Feed chickens 2x per day, as much as they will eat in 15 minutes. If you can, free range the chickens by day and shut them in just at night to protect from predators. But chickens will adjust to 'mealtimes' rather than free feeding in any case.

Chickens will kill and eat mice (probably not rats). 

Cats can carry toxoplasmosis, but it isn't really all that common if the cats are healthy. If these are outdoor cats and you aren't cleaning a litterbox, chances that a person would contract it from the cats is pretty slim. You will have to protect baby chicks from the cats though.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Goats Rock said:


> I purchased an electric rat trap at Tractor Supply. It is a little bigger than a good size rat! It runs on 2 "D" batteries (I think, or "c"). You put pnut butter on the inside at the far end. Push a switch to turn on and
> the rats walk in, get zapped, die almost instantly. Works great! My original batteries worked on 19 rats, 2 mice and a stupid chipmunk.
> No poison, cats or snap traps. Turn it off, dump the carcas out and turn it back on. I only have one, they were around $35 on sale.


Cool I'll have to look into that. I could get one for the shop, and one for by the house.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

neubunny said:


> Feed chickens 2x per day, as much as they will eat in 15 minutes. If you can, free range the chickens by day and shut them in just at night to protect from predators. But chickens will adjust to 'mealtimes' rather than free feeding in any case.
> 
> Chickens will kill and eat mice (probably not rats).
> 
> Cats can carry toxoplasmosis, but it isn't really all that common if the cats are healthy. If these are outdoor cats and you aren't cleaning a litterbox, chances that a person would contract it from the cats is pretty slim. You will have to protect baby chicks from the cats though.


Mice are just a big nuisance and the few that are in the house I have traps out regularly.
I'm not worried about toxoplasmosis really just don't want to deal with cats any more. I did start feeding twice a day to see if that helps. I can't free range being right on the hwy and the fact the neighbor doesn't keep his 20+ chickens out of my yard, hay or goat pens! I've thrown rocks, water gun etc. now I pop pellets by their feet unless they go into the goat feeder area- then I shoot them.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I too was going to suggest a terrier. We used to have lots of rats, but then we got our current dogs, who love to chase rats. They keep the population well under control.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

milkmaid said:


> I too was going to suggest a terrier. We used to have lots of rats, but then we got our current dogs, who love to chase rats. They keep the population well under control.


I had a JRT and she used to clear the rock chucks. She sadly passed about 4 years ago, my husband (who wasn't when I bought her) hated her except when she'd sleep with him. He has forbid me to get another


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

Our JRT is so pathetic it took him 15 min to kill a vole last spring I think his total " kill" is 5 and he's 4 yrs old. So he's not doing a tremendous job. We usually only have problems in the fall when they try to move in so we keep the poison available and they take care of themselves. I have my chickens out in a heavy mesh A frame with a wood floor in the warmer months at night, during the day they free range and I've never Lost one to raccoons do they get everybody's at night by breaking into the coop?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

We had a large **** ( I know this because his skin is now sitting on my porch) go right up and over the fencing got into the coop and killed 5 or 6 of my chickens. One rooster dead, one rooster had big bite out of his back- I sprayed blukote on it and he is now beautiful. We had a leg here a wing there a head here and misc parts everywhere. It was horrible; but we got the last word-it's a 22


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## BlackCrowFarm (Jan 5, 2013)

In the summer we get over run with chipmunks & mice all over the place! They even go in the coop to eat the chicken feed.
I use a deep bucket, fill it about 1/2 full of water(no more ) them lean a board against the bucket so its kinda like a bridge up to the top from the ground. Put enough sun flower seeds floating in the bucket so it looks like the bucket is full of seeds. Sprinkle a few on the ground & up the board to the top where its sitting on the bucket. The rodents will climb the board collecting the seeds & jump in the bucket, greedy rats! & drown. Remember to check the bucket everyday at least once to dispose of the dead.
This works very well for us & we don't have to worry about our other animals eating pioson.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

That would work great for our mice, but the pack rats I'd have to use a 55 gal or they'd jump right out!


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> That would work great for our mice, but the pack rats I'd have to use a 55 gal or they'd jump right out!


Really? How high can you jump when in water over your head??

Bob


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Arkie said:


> Really? How high can you jump when in water over your head??
> 
> Bob


You are just awnery . To get the water deep enough and still have room not to jump it's a lot. We have big pack rats! I was surprised the first one we shot.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

how big are they?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

there body is the size of a softball not including the head. Traps don't work unless you modify them with braised on horse shoe nails- which we have one of and it works out in the shop. Opened my drawer under the stove last night- Rat droppings!!!! Just bleached the pans in there. I think I found the place he got in, under the bathroom cabinets (like I said it's over 100 yr old house). The bathroom is our last remodel project at the end of the month. I shoved some 3x3 pieces in there- hopefully that'll keep him out- I think he'd sneak in at night. Mind you our house is clean, food and crumbs don't get left anywhere- Arg it's so gross, I freaked out when I found it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If they are wood rats, which they kind of sound too big to be, they are looking for shiney things to add to their nest. They eat only tender greens and herbs. They are smaller then Norway rats, maybe you have both?
Putting mothballs in your drawers helps to keep them out. I know they don't smell nice but, at least they are clean. 
We have a constant fight here with rats. I ended up getting my rat terrier and my jack russell/yorkie mix. They help a bunch.
If your husband won't let you get a small dog, perhaps a standard schnauzer, whippet, german pincher, ect.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

clearwtrbeach said:


> there body is the size of a softball not including the head. Traps don't work unless you modify them with braised on horse shoe nails- which we have one of and it works out in the shop. Opened my drawer under the stove last night- Rat droppings!!!! Just bleached the pans in there. I think I found the place he got in, under the bathroom cabinets (like I said it's over 100 yr old house). The bathroom is our last remodel project at the end of the month. I shoved some 3x3 pieces in there- hopefully that'll keep him out- I think he'd sneak in at night. Mind you our house is clean, food and crumbs don't get left anywhere- Arg it's so gross, I freaked out when I found it.


Ugh...I feel for you! When I moved into my house 8 years ago, it was over run with mice...it took a lot of effort and cleaning up and cats, of course, but now we have none.Occasionally we get one or two in the fall as the weather changes but mostly they get caught before they come in by one of my 3 cats.
I'd be irritated with rats that big....they must do some massive damage!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

We used to raise Miniature Schnauzers, now there is a "killer" dog. Ours were smart...one of them would "stalk" the critter, get it's attention, then the others would pounce. They killed a skunk before it could spray. They killed some pretty big ground hogs. I never had a critter in the house that lived very long. 

I understand not wanting outdoor cats. We tried to have a couple of barn cats. I think our big owl, killed one and the other one finally went missing. Never found her or any sign of her. It's fun having them...but...they don't live long.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I spent 3 weeks scrubbing from ceiling to floor before all the patching holes, painting, gutting the kitchen floor 10x20 down to joists to replace, carpet over the plywood floors before i even moved in. The first 2 mos I caught a mouse every day to every other day. Every thing is spotless and I keep it that way (except the pile of paperwork on my desk ). I thought I found the spot he got in, under the ancient vanity. Well I've checked everywhere for a hole, nothing. I had the little mouse trap set in the laundry/ back room. Got up this morning and the trap was by my desk!!! Which mind you is through one door way, across 20+ feet of kitchen to computer area. It's def. a rat. The little dogs sleep with me in my room.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Di said:


> We used to raise Miniature Schnauzers, now there is a "killer" dog. Ours were smart...one of them would "stalk" the critter, get it's attention, then the others would pounce. They killed a skunk before it could spray. They killed some pretty big ground hogs. I never had a critter in the house that lived very long.
> 
> I understand not wanting outdoor cats. We tried to have a couple of barn cats. I think our big owl, killed one and the other one finally went missing. Never found her or any sign of her. It's fun having them...but...they don't live long.


That is funny! About 2 mos ago my peke/****zu was out front at dusk, and before my hubby saw the skunk and got the gun. My dog was 'skunked' he shot the skunk but the damage was done. 

We have a great horned owl that what the highway doesn't kill he does! He is huge!


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Skunk smell elimination;

http://www.gettingoutside.com/Skunk-Smell-Removal

This one really works, but it CAN'T be premixed and kept on hand, or unused portions stored!

Bob


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## Ninja Goats (Sep 6, 2011)

When we moved into our house it had been vacant for 6 months. We weren't thrilled with the mice in the basement but figured we'd get them with poison. The worst was when we tried using the oven for the first time.... They had been nesting in the oven insulation and it stunk sooo bad! For a while we were putting out a bag of poison a week and it was all disappearing. Our house cat was also catching some mice. Now we only get one every once in a while. Hank, the cat, brings them to us, how nice of him lol

The property already had a barn cat. I had to trap and spay her. Since then I've trapped and fixed every cat that wanders thru. I let them out and if they stay ok, if the don't whatever. I have 5 barn cats. Even before I got my deep freeze for the horse feed I didn't have any problems with mice getting into the bags. And we have several vehicles that don't get driven much, no mice in them either.

The cats however do not scare away the racoons. I have to do that. I've chased many with pitchforks... My husband thinks I'm crazy. If I go in the barn and a **** runs up to the rafters I'll climb up there and terrorize it. If I scare the crap out of it maybe it won't come back! I caught a few last fall in my cat food. Metal trash can with a bungee on the lid. ***** got in but couldn't get out. That's a pleasant surprise, open the can with a **** staring back up at you! 

Good luck with your mouse/rat problem. If you do want cats check around for a rescue group that adopts out barn cats. There's at least 2 in my area where you can get a fixed/vaccinated cat for $20 ish. You still need to feed them but a big bag of cat food at the feed store isn't expensive.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

That sounds like a big enough problem to call in professionals.
I've had problems with rats at my place and I have *mostly* fixed the problems with this same process.... Take away the food. They showed up at your place because you are feeding them. For me that was the storing up of garbage for months to take to the dump and leaving grain sacks out for them to pillage through. Remove the garbage... put the grain in rat proof containers... wait a couple of days... put out rat poison. Boom. No more rats. 
As for cats... If you currently don't have any, but are considering them, get neutered male cats from the get go. Cats can carry goat aborting diseases. You are asking for it if you have unneutered feral cats in your barn. One less thing to rule out if you have an abortion storm some time in the future. 
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/toxoplasmosis_can_cause_abortions_in_sheep_and_goats


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I am not considering cats, however, after vet tech and dog rescue I'd never not have a 'fixed' animal. My two cats that finally passed, were both found and were neutered right away. Our rescues here run about $50 for a fixed feral cat and up from there. 
This place had been lived in by PIGS for at least 10 yrs. We bleached almost any structure on the property. After the house was clean, we started the outside, 10 loads to the dump, glass patrol daily for almost a year now. Mice in the beginning in the house then under control. Packrats in the shop we had to take strong bleach water and spray at least 5 times before the smell was gone. There's poison in there on a regular basis. No food or trash is left out, trash gets picked daily and taken to dump. I had found mice in my car trunk and one in the car, so poison was put there. My travel trailer was the same, mice, destruction then poison regularly until it was sold.
After this morning and the trap going through a room through a door across the kitchen, living room to my computer area - it's on  I'm bringing in the big rat trap with the horse shoe nails that are braised onto it with tied to my receiver hitch to keep him from dragging it off. 
*****, skunks and coyotes are met with a 22. I have zero tolerance for anything that is disease carrying, animal eating, or destructive.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

clearwtrbeach said:


> After this morning and the trap going through a room through a door across the kitchen, living room to my computer area - it's on  I'm bringing in the big rat trap with the horse shoe nails that are braised onto it with tied to my receiver hitch to keep him from dragging it off.
> *****, skunks and coyotes are met with a 22.


ROFL! Lol! :ROFL:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Here are some traps: http://www.havahart.com/store/live-animal-traps/rat


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Modern engineering to the rescue!





Bob


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

sweet, kind of gross but I think it may work. I'll have to find one of those. thanks


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## jaycee (Aug 3, 2011)

I know you said you dont wants cats but a couple of free kittens for the barn and dont forget to get them fixed (so you dont end up with 30)... thats the really easy solution, all the rest of these ideas are much less effective and alot more work. A small cup of cat food a day and problem solved. Just my 2 cents nothing solves a mouse problem like housecats, they have been proven to be pound for pound among the most efficient and effective hunters in the entire animal kingdom.


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## Conny (Feb 2, 2012)

we have cats, that as kittens we put in the 'feed' shed. They were old enough to eat wet food but not old enough to do enough exploring and find the exit to get outside for a couple weeks. When they did find outside they discovered our free range chickens. What great fun!!! The girls would want to play with the chickens wind up getting a good sound pecking from theyre 'prey' and skitter tail fluffed back to the 'shed'. They soon learned chickens r not prey they could eat. The girls are now 3 and other then rub up against the chickens they dont bother ours.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Not everyone can have cats though. At my house, between the busy highway right in front, the neigbors livestock dogs, and the raccoons, the lifespan of a barn cat would be about 6 months. That's not fair to them to get them, knowing that they will be killed.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Not everyone can have cats though. At my house, between the busy highway right in front, the neigbors livestock dogs, and the raccoons, the lifespan of a barn cat would be about 6 months. That's not fair to them to get them, knowing that they will be killed.


That is basically our situation here. Right on the hwy, w/ lots of predators. I just wouldn't subject them to that with a mentality of oh time to get another one. Not saying anyone on here has that mentality, just people I've run into over the years.


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