# Doe rejecting triplet - getting better!



## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Back for another piece of advice/opinion. My doe with the triplets has been trying to reject one of her bucklings. This started from either 2 or 3 days old, he is now almost 2 1/2 weeks and it has only gotten worse. She will not nurse him unless the other kids are trying to nurse, then he is able to sneak in. She'll head butt him and has slammed him against the wall several times. Big problem is that they are getting big, and very rough with her because this little guy can only eat if he slips in with other two and she only has dinner plates for two. The doe has started running from them all because they are so rough on her, her teats look raw because they just hang onto her while she tries to pull away. This is the same doe I was talking about that I am having a very hard time keeping weight on her (found she is slightly wormy). But she is also a very very small doe. Today was the first day I put them in with the herd, and felt horrible for him. He was running around from doe to doe completely confused who momma was because every doe hated him and was trying to slip in between any sleeping pile of kids for comfort. 
He was gaining well, but is tapering off. He was the biggest by 2 pounds when born, now the other buck is heavier. 
I don't know wether to pull him from her for his sake and also for hers so she can put on some weight. Or keep him with her? 
Another problem is that the whole family is supposed to be sold and was supposed to be leaving in the couple weeks.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I suggest... that you supplement feed him.... Some Does do that ...it isn't a good thing.... but some will single out one....and do this ...I had a Doe...push off her Doeling ...she only had twins....and she didn't like the Doeling and only wanted to feed her buckling...it is very frustrating for sure....

You may have to wean them all early...and supplement feed... if she is getting really injured by them.... and her condition is getting bad... :hug:


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I would also supplement him, if he isn't getting enough milk from mom he will slowly starve to death. Not sure what to do about them being sold, but the new owner will need to know that he needs to be supplemented. Otherwise you could pull him completely and either see if the new owners want to bottle feed him, or reduce the price a little and sell her with just the two kids. The does teats will most likely end up with some scarring on the teats from the kids teeth. Removing the third kid will stop the other two from fighting over teats and hurting her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I agree with the others. Sometimes you just have to break down and supplement.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

agreed


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

yes I agree too, he needs to be a bottle baby. Its going to take some work on your part, he wont take to it readily.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I'm so sorry Maggie, feel awful for everyone involved. Sounds to me like she is overwhelmed and that's why she's not wanting the little guy. If she is a little wormy, and getting thin from nursing kids & worms, could be affecting her mentality too, and possibly stressing her out?
If there were more teats, I'd say work with the daily, but sounds like they'll always be competeing for a teat, and therefor it might be better if he were bottle fed. I'm no pro but I'd rather save the does teats and stress of everyone involved, and it's most likely going to take bottle feeding to do that.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Either turn him into a bottle baby or try holding mama and making her nurse him while pushing the other 2 away from her. bottle baby is a whole lot easier. If you try the 2nd way, you'll have to keep them up where you can get ahold her several times a day to let him nurse.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I am in half way the same boat with my triplets. Jasmine looks horrible she is run down and not doing to well but I started feeding her some Calf Manna along with her grain I have wormed her twice now and her poop went from dumps back to pellets but her teats are raw and bleeding. Plus the smallest has only gained 3 pounds in 24 days and is 8 pounds while the other 2 are 15 and 17 pounds. Jasmine though has not disowned Cindy just Cindy can not get in to eat so I have started pulling Jasmine out 3 times a day and tieing her up with Hay in front of her. Then I bring Cindy out and let her eat her fill or until Jasmine can not be calmed down. Then I put Cindy back and I massage bag balm into Jasmine's teats and bag before I put her back. Maybe you can try that and just keep the doe calm while the 1 buckling nurses and with her being tied up she can't hit him. You may have to tie or hold a leg up too to keep her from kicking him off. It is a time commitment but it is worth not loosing a baby. I tried to just supplement with a bottle but she would not take it.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I'm not sure what to do. I probably should just pull the buck.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I would try it I tried with Cindy but she was so weak I didn't want to stress her so thats why we are doing this. Today is day 3 and she is looking so much better already. Good luck with him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*



> I'm not sure what to do. I probably should just pull the buck.


 :hug: Aww...I know it is hard to decide ...but at minimum.. supplement the buckling... :hug:


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I'll definately try to get him on a bottle, just not sure if I should take him completely away or leave him with her. If I leave him with her he will continues to harrass her and she will continue to attack him, she has started to bite him now this evening. And its also putting a stress on her body feeding him, she already is all bones. But then if I pull him, its obviously going to stress him and I hate for him to be alone. I feel like I am choosing between the doe and the baby.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Just a thought. I could possibly keep both bucklings in a nearby stall, keep the doe with momma. And let the one buckling she likes in to nurse with momma throughout the day, while bottle feeding the other guy until he gets used to eating from the bottle. Then might be able to just keep him with the herd and not alone. I am here most of the day, so I have the time. :shrug:

...okay I might just be tired from being up all last night and not thinking right, not deciding anything tonight


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*



Maggie said:


> Just a thought. I could possibly keep both bucklings in a nearby stall, keep the doe with momma. And let the one buckling she likes in to nurse with momma throughout the day, while bottle feeding the other guy until he gets used to eating from the bottle. Then might be able to just keep him with the herd and not alone. I am here most of the day, so I have the time. :shrug:


Don't see why you couldn't try that. Also, see if he will just take a bottle while still being with mom. I wouldn't isolate him and pull him totally away unless you really had to.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

I had left him with the herd this morning. Mom is not feeding him. I did get him to drink a couple gulps from the bottle, I will try again in a bit. I did see him eating some of the alfalfa from the feeder this morning though. He is just absoutely terrified, hes running around all hunched up trying to find a doe that will take him.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Poor little guy  I am so sorry, I can imagine how awful you must feel knowing there isn't anything you can do to make her accept him. Life just completely 'sucks' sometimes  Hopefully he can make a buddy somehow?


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Do you have a creep area for him to get away if he needs to with food in it?


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Well now I have another problem. I noticed the one side of her udder is usually larger. This morning I watching the buckling she does like go to eat, he first grabbed the larger side sucked a couple times, gave up then went to the small side, he did the same things again half hour later. I cought her and took her out alone, the large side of her udder feels hard up top, almost like mastitis but no heat, its softer down by her teat. I worked and worked on that teat massaging her bag, massaged some udder balm in, etc and I could not get a drop of anything to come out. The other side is pretty much drained as I imagine they are only able to get milk from that side. 
Now what to do??


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

Yes I do Roger, the kids haven't been too interested in much grain though.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*

OK mine were not to interested until a few days ago now they are eating about 2 quarts of feed a day between about 5 of them. I don't really no what to say about the udder sorry I have never had to deal with that. Your poor little guy sounds like my Cindy. I hope you can get him back on track. Cindy is slowly looking better and standing better.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Try warm compresses. You will just have to keep working on that side of the udder and keep massaging it.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

I'm sorry, but you are going to have to get that baby separated and bottle him. It takes some work to get them to take the bottle, but just keep trying. If you leave him in the herd, he's gonna get hurt or killed.

Mama is gonna develop mastitis if you don't get that side milked down. Get her in where you can work on it several times a day. Warm compresses and keep trying to milk. Sometimes my doe that does milk takes some work to get milk started too. If you can just get a little milk into the teat and keep squeezing that little bit till it squirts? that's sometimes what I have to do.

You might even call vet and see if you should start some mastitis meds or antibiotics to stave off a worse infection? I've never actually dealt with it so don't know.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Well I got my husband to help, we massaged her and put hot compresses on for about 25 minutes. We only got 1/2 ounce out of her. You could really only get 1 or 2 small squirts, then would have to massage more. Rubbed udder balm all over her and will try again later. My mother in law is going to pick us up some peppermint oil on her way down, so maybe that will help too. There is barely any milk left in the other side of her udder.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

I'm so sorry Maggie  I have no advice as I've never dealt with this, but I can imagine how awful it must be for you  I hope and pray she will be okay and you can get her going good again. When it rains, it sure does pour


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

I haven't been able to get the buck to take the bottle yet. He did get to nurse on the doe a bit, I held one of the other kids. I watched them a while trying to nurse all together, I have never seen kids so vicious, even after their bellies were full they were just attacking her. She was running to try to get away from them, then layed down to try to get them off her and they were trying to poke their heads under her to get at her :shocked: The one buck and the doeling looked like their bellies would explode, I don't know why they were acting like they have never eaten anything. I have decided I absolutely hate triplets.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Maggie, sometimes you have to just wait till they are REALLY hungry before they will take the bottle. If it were me, I'd put them all on a bottle and save that poor doe! I think it's just worse because they are all boys...little brats! But, they will eventually take it.

I'd be thinking about using something like Today in her. But, someone with more experience should guide you for that.

I seriously thought my boy would starve, he did finally take the bottle. And, sometimes they like it surprisingly warm...you might try heating it a little more. Good luck!


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Yes storm likes his almost hot or else he will not drink it. I let it get to cold this morning while doing all the other chores so he would not take it. But he has a mom too so I was not to worried I just gave him a little extra at his noon feeding.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Okay thanks, I always worry about it being too hot. I even tried just squirting it in his mouth, he wouldn't even swallow it it was just running out the sides of his mouth. :roll:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*



Maggie said:


> I haven't been able to get the buck to take the bottle yet. He did get to nurse on the doe a bit, I held one of the other kids. I watched them a while trying to nurse all together, I have never seen kids so vicious, even after their bellies were full they were just attacking her. She was running to try to get away from them, then layed down to try to get them off her and they were trying to poke their heads under her to get at her :shocked: The one buck and the doeling looked like their bellies would explode, I don't know why they were acting like they have never eaten anything. I have decided I absolutely hate triplets.


I know you don't want to hear this, but maybe it would be better to keep the boys as bottle babies and leave the doeling with mama? Sounds like it would be best for her to get the boys off of her. If she were mine, and from what you've been describing, as much as I'd hate to have bottle babies, I couldn't let my doe go through that, she must be absolutely miserable  
I'd just keep the boys together, then the one she rejects wouldn't have to worry about having a buddy, because he'd have his brother.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Hoosiershadow - that is exactly what my husband and I were talking about earlier this evening and have decided to do.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*



Maggie said:


> Hoosiershadow - that is exactly what my husband and I were talking about earlier this evening and have decided to do.


Glad to hear it. I can imagine how completely stressful this is. I hope and pray the boys take to the bottle. Maybe this will help get mama back in shape since I know you were worried about that too, and hopefully with having the doeling to contend with will make her love being a mama again


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

The side that feels firm and not giving much is likely congested...what you have done so far is good, massage with warm compresses. Pulling the boys does sound like it would benefit the doeling as well as Mama, just keep a watch on her udder, with just one kid nursing, it will take a few days for her to adjust the output, unless you are planning to milk her for the bottles.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Some like the 2 week old I have now are a pain in the butt to get on the bottle. This little guy never even drank from mom and made me crazy not accepting the bottle and making me tube feed at first. Time patience and hunger will make it all work.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

We will probably milk Honey some so I can have milk for bottles and to mix in with formula until their bellies adjust to it. The bigger buckling had nursed on the larger side of her udder for a little bit when we held her, he was more hungry so more determined. It felt a little bit softer even though he didn't get a whole lot. We pulled them away from mom tonight, I thought it would be better than waiting until tomorrow so that they will be hungrier tomorrow so I can work on getting them used to the bottle during the day and hopefully not have to stay up late again! I think Honey was completely relieved, as soon as I let her out of her stall to do the switch she fled to the pasture, I had to go find her to put her back inside with the doe. She was snuggled up with her little girl when we left the barn.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

To be honest I would use whole cows milk before I would use powder. 1 the powder usually cost more and i have heard is harder on the kids to switch to. I just really like the whole cows milk. If you want to add more fat you it add 6 oz. evaporated milk and 1 cup half and half to the gallon and shake it up. (you will have to remove 1 3/4 cups of milk first)


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

I have heard others that would agree with Rodger to use whole cows milk. I gotta say though, I'm worried about your does udder. I have no experience, thus no advise, but I pulled this conversation off an e-mail list I am on. There are a few similarities.

Suzanne W Gasparotto [email protected] via yahoogroups.com 
Jan 30 (5 days ago)
SYLVIE'S STORY

OCR Sylvie, TexMaster™ doe, lost her first kid this hot 
summer in Texas. I could have prevented it had I been more 
aware of what was happening.

Sylvie kidded just fine. Strapping young buck kid was 
nursing well shortly after birth. Sylvie gave birth in a 
remote area of her pasture. I took a bucket of water to 
her, checked the kid, checked Sylvie's teats for good 
colostrum flow, and went about checking on other does 
close to kidding. I didn't get an opportunity to bring her 
up to the common area for further observation on the first 
day of her kid's life as I usually do, but Sylvie was 
coming to feed and water and then going back to him in the 
secluded area she had chosen to keep him away from the 
herd for his first few days of life.

At the close of the second day of his life, Sylvie's kid 
and Sylvie were moved closer to areas of activity. 
Sylvie's teats were checked. The kid's stomach was full. 
All seemed well. At mid-morning on the third day, the kid 
was dead.

What happened? He starved to death. Why? Sylvie had 
developed what appeared to be mastitis in the side of the 
udder that the kid was nursing, and neither he nor she 
knew to change to the other side where milk was flowing 
freely. He starved to death.

Further examination revealed that this was not yet 
mastitis but congested udder. Milk was not stringy, 
smelly, or bloody, but was difficult to milk out of the 
udder. The udder had hard but not hot or cold spots in it, 
leading me to believe congestion was the problem.

Here are the actions I took and what I believe happened:

Hot compresses were applied three times a day to the 
affected side of the udder using the Metro absorbent towel 
that Jeffers carries that absorbs 15 times its weight in 
liquid, is reusable, durable, and machine washable (item 
#MP-M7, 20 " x 27", 1-800-533-3377). This towel really 
holds moisture and heat. Then Sylvie's udder was milked 
out. MastiClear (penicillin-based mastitis infusion tube) 
was used in case mastitis was developing; Jeffers also 
carries this over-the-counter product. I now have Pirsue™ 
prescription mastitis infusion tubes on hand which I try 
when next needed. Pirsue™ is expensive but is supposedly 
very effective. After every hot compress and milk-out 
treatment, CaiPan peppermint cream was massaged into her 
udder. Jeffers also carries this terrific product. 
Prescription Banamine was administered to ease discomfort 
for two days at 12-hour intervals.

"I gave Sylvie procaine penicillin SQ over the ribs with 
an 18 gauge needle for five consecutive days, but then 
switched to Nuflor for another three days at the 
recommendation of dairy goat producers Beverly Martin 
Smith of Saguaro Farms ([email protected]) and Tanya 
Farris of Bulletcreek Ranch, Reliance, Tennessee.

Then I did something of which I was skeptical but I did 
not want this doe to lose the use of her udder. At Tanya's 
and Beverly's recommendations, I gave Sylvie 15 cc of Milk 
of Magnesia orally daily for five days and kept her 
hydrated because laxatives are dehydrating.

I am convinced that Sylvie got dehydrated when she was 
converting from colostrum to milk and the udder got 
congested. Had I made water more available to her during 
the time that a doe keeps her newborn away from the rest 
of the herd, this would not have happened. I don't know 
precisely why the Milk of Magnesia helped, but I can think 
of four possible reasons: (a) dehydration may lower 
magnesium levels in the goat's body, (b) summer heat 
contributed to dehydration and magnesium depletion in her 
body, and (c) Milk of Magnesia, as a laxative, encouraged 
her to drink more water, and (d) high magnesium levels are 
critical to lactation. Summer kidding in hot climates is 
never good -- for the kids or the dams."

I realize that Sylvie's problem turned out to be congested 
and I don't believe that is what you are dealing with, but 
the treatment protocol is correct for either condition.

I think she is going to lose this udder so you need the 
best medication to infuse as is possible to get, hence the 
Pirsue(tm) recommendation. If milk is coming out the 
sides of the udder, the next step is for the udder to 
actually open up abscess-like and infection pour out and 
more bacteria pour in. This situation may kill her. 
Definitely the udder is NOT going to heal and be useful 
in the future. From a breeding/nursing standpoint, this 
doe is a cull.

swg


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet*



Maggie said:


> Just a thought. I could possibly keep both bucklings in a nearby stall, keep the doe with momma. And let the one buckling she likes in to nurse with momma throughout the day, while bottle feeding the other guy until he gets used to eating from the bottle. Then might be able to just keep him with the herd and not alone. I am here most of the day, so I have the time. :shrug:
> 
> ...okay I might just be tired from being up all last night and not thinking right, not deciding anything tonight


This sounds like the least stressful, safest and healthiest solution for all involved.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Wow that is aweful Tenacross.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*



Maggie said:


> Wow that is aweful Tenacross.


Oohh.. sorry. The last paragraph I should have deleted, because not only was it abrasive, I think she was talking about another goat. I meant to only include "Sylvie's story".

I think the main point is you may have to get fairly agressive in treating your does udder.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Oh I know that last paragraph was not pertaining to my doe. I don't plan on culling her, but do plan to find a pet home for her and if they breed her they need to understands they are going to have a lot of bottle babies. I had spoke to the girl that was going to buy her and both came to the agreement that she is not suitable for her herd. She might still want the babies, but we just sort of left it up in the air.
I was able to get 6 ounces out of her udder this morning, so was pretty happy about that. Its still hard and full, but at least we are making progress. I'll do that hot compresses and peppermint oil massages again and milk her at lunch and this evening. I was not able to get the babies to take a bottle yet, but I did try putting the milk in a bowl and the one baby sucked down half of it  The other guy wouldn't try (the one momma hated), but he was pretty interested in what brother was doing and kept sniffing the milk so maybe he'll try next time around.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Sounds like you might be getting somewhere with her udder, I'd stay on top of what your doing, and hopefully it gets it going well for her again. Do you try to put the doeling on that side? I've no experience with this, but figured if the milk looks fine, having her nurse from that side first could help get things flowing? Since her suckling could probably draw it down better than a human hand could?
Just a thought 

I'm so glad the one boy caught on to drinking up the milk, maybe you'll have bowl babies instead of bottle babies hehe  Hopefully his brother will catch on to the bottle or bowl soon, I'm sure he will figure it out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

Praying... that she will be Ok... sounds like ..you are doing the right thing.... :hug: ray:


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

*Re: Doe rejecting triplet - more problems*

We got the one buckling Chief to take the bottle!! He still is not sucking on it, he wants to just chew on it more, but I am able to squeeze some milk into his mouth while he chews on it. He only ate a little but, but better than nothing! We tried earlier this morning with no luck with the other guy. And great news too is that we got mommas milk going a little, we got two 8 oz bottles full. I let her in the yard and first thing she did was run to the fence to see her buckling. So I grabbed the one guy Jag and took him to her and got him to eat of the bad side of her udder :greengrin: She keeps feeding him, so left him with her for now. Of course the other guy was't happy at first, but has 7 other kids with him and was out eating alfalfa with them at the outside feeder last time I checked.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

With the one.. that doesn't want to suck on the bottle...have you tried putting molasses on the nipple? Sometimes it helps.... Also.. tickle his tailhead area on the top of the back....it may help stimulate him to suckle... and move the nipple slightly in and out of his mouth... leaving it in at all times...to try to get him going...
Does he have the suck reflux?


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

No he doesn't even try to suck on it :shrug: Tonight when I was feeding him, he just wanted to lap at the nimple like a dog. I obviously can't get him to eat much eating like that, it took him 20 minutes to drink about an ounce. I've tried tickling his tail/back, it just freaks him out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

The milk should be at a certain temp... to get the baby to like it...not to hot and not to cold....

Make sure ...he is warm...if the weather is cold....sometimes.. if they are cold ...they may not want to suck..... 


Dip your index finger in milk and place it into his mouth.... Repeat and maybe he will start sucking..on your finger.... If he does....put him on the bottle quickly....
repeat if necessary..... 

Try putting pancake syrup...molasses or even corn syrup on the nipple...or even your finger and try to get him to suckle....... we need to start that suck reflex or make sure ...it is there... :hug:


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