# A serious question............................Update :( Mad



## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

This is a terrible quetion I know but how long after a doe passes do you have to get the baby out before the baby dies too? I have a doe on her way and I am watching very carefully but I dont know the window of time that I have(just in case I stepped inside for a minute).


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: A serious question............................*

If the kid is still inside the doe you only have a few minutes because if the doe passes the kid has no way for air supply being still in the mother. Be ready to do a "C" section and have everything ready.


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## Hush Hills Fainters (Oct 27, 2010)

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Ya ...I wouldn't step away for very long....if at all. Have you thought of just putting her down yourself and saving the babies so she doesnt have to suffer???? I know it would be hard for me to do...but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do so ya don't loose the babies too.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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yup! Be ready immidiately! Honestly if she is on her way, I would step in and "do the deed", and take the kids immidiately. I know it sounds cruel, but no reason to prolong her suffering. good luck sorry you have to deal with this!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

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If the Doe is in Active pushing labor....and a bulge is appearing...and nothing happens within a 30 minutes....I would go in..... and help her..... :hug:


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

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Oh man. I am so sorry. :C


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

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Yep, if she's on her way then you can put her down and immediately do a c-section and hopefully the babies will make it. You would probably only have a minute or two to get them out.

Sorry to hear about your doe.


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: A serious question............................*

My husband has some friends coming over now to help so that I dont have to watch it anymore. It's really bad for him too, so I think that they are going to try to save the babies if possible. One of the men has alot of experience with goats and is going to get the babies and I guess take the doe out of her pain so that my poor husband doesnt have to. I feel bad for him because these goats are both of our hobbies and we love them equally so it's really hard for him. It's no fun to see a 6'5" grown man get sad over a goat it just breaks my heart


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

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Im SOOOOO sorry this is happening, if the mom cant be saved, she should be put out of her misery, good luck. Hope you can save the babies, I KNOW its hard to do that, but its for the best, keep us posted


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

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oh I am so sorry :hug:

hope you can save any viable kids ray: you have a very limited time frame (like seconds more then minutes)


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

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Yes as soon as they get here they are going to put her down . She is really close to her due date so if the babies make it through the surgery and are alive then I have high hopes for them or actually 'it" I have no idea if there are more than one. Keep you guys posted. Also I have no access to any fresh colostrum so will the powder from TS work ok? I tried to milk her but I cant get any out. So I went to TS and got SAV A Kid and Colostrum in a bag. I have bottle fed before but as a supplement to the mom so do I need to give the babies anything other than what I have?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: A serious question............................*

if thats all you have for colostrum it is certainly better then nothing for them.

if your friends have goats maybe they have colostrum or some goats milk to get them started off right.

I would give them some kind of vitamin supplement like nutri drench or powerpunch


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

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agree, and bo-se too.

so sorry you're going through this, keep us updated :hug:


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

As if it coulnt get any worse ..... Well she died before they put her down and they were fixing to and then she took her last breath .They immediately cut her open to find 3 chocolate and white does our 1st set of triplets we have been waiting and waiting for triplets and they were all dead. Fully developed but dead it makes me sick! We just lost our doe and 3 does.WOW!


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

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So sorry for your loss ........


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

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That is our 3rd doe to kid this year and out of 6 babies 1 survived not a good start to the year. We had a miscarraige last week 2 bucks then 3 does tonight .... Very discouraging.


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## Springbett Farm (Jan 5, 2011)

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How awful. So sorry.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

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I am so terribly sorry for your losses


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

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Gosh, i'm so sorry. Have you figured out what is going wrong...health wise with them? Sounds like there is an issue going on to lose so many.  I hope you have better luck...hang in there.


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

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Aww geeze. I'm so sorry. Sounds like maybe she was ready to kid at one time and couldn't? It's so hard with animals, because they can't speak to us to tell us what is wrong. I'm sorry for your loss.


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

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I too am so so sorry you guys are going though this.


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

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Oh my heart is so sad for you :hug: ......I am so sorry you loss your girl and babies


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

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I'm so sorry you lost them all. Hopefully the rest of your kidding season will be much better.

Jan


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

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That is so sad! :tears: I hope things get better for you all. :hug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

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My heart just breaks for you. I am so sorry this is happeneing to you. 
QUestion, do you have any mold at all in your hay? I mean at all? Or in the bedding?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

I am so sorry for your losses....  don't blame yourself...things like this do happen beyond our control.....my heart goes out to you ..... :hug:


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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 So sorry it turned out that way for you! :grouphug:


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## OhCee (Feb 26, 2010)

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sweetgoats said:


> QUestion, do you have any mold at all in your hay? I mean at all? Or in the bedding?


That's where my mind went when I read this.

OP- sorry for your loss- I hope you are able to turn this bad kidding year around and get some nice, healthy doelings


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

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Oh, I'm so sorry... that's about the worst scenario I can imagine. Than is a really big loss...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

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Melinda, I had really hoped that you could have at least saved the babies :sigh: I am so very sorry that you lost all of them and mom too :hug:

I would second the question of moldy hay, even the slightest bit of mold when eaten can cause polio like symptoms as well as death in babies before birth.

Another that I think of is Toxoplasmosis...it is carried by cats in their poop, if you have barn cats that potty in the hay or around the goats feeding areas, it too can cause death of kids and make moms very sick.


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

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Well we do have 2 yard cats and our hay we bought at TS it's Alfalfa in the plastic bale that they sale. We have been giving them that lately we are out of regular bales and havent gone to the feed store so I dont think its moldy because we keep it in the house in our mudroom with all the feed so it stays cool. But I am not sure I guess that could be a possibilty. I think that the babies died because of her lack of oxygen in the end if we wouldnt have waited so long to put her down I think we could have saved the babies. We didnt know what to do at the time and didnt even think about that because she was breathing so slowly in the end for so long. I am suspicious though Liz because we did have another miscarraige 2 weeks ago and I am wondering now what is going on. We have never had so many issues like this ,we worm regularly and feed really good everyone seems happy and healthy until they get ready to kid????? I am definately going to do some research . Another thing is that our chickens free range with the goats do you think that could be a problem? I know that she probably had toxemia her breath was really sweet and her symptoms seemed on point so if I would have known how to treat it when we first saw signs then I think she would have been ok .Because she had triplets I think that they stripped her body from all the necessary things she needs and I didnt realize it till it was to late.I just simply waited to long and it got out of control because I didnt know what to do but for sure now I am going to be on top of my game and watch every move my does make! I think the doe that had the miscarriage got hit by one of the other does cant say that for sure but she was not a dominant doe and they kinda pushed her around .So we are taking a break until may and hopefully all goes well with the next set of girls due!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

I agree that is sounds very much like Toxemia/Ketosis. I am so very sorry. At least you know what it was, so you can manage the rest of your girls accordingly. It is awful when you have no clue what is going on and thus have no way to prevent or stop more problems.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm

It can be caused by under-feeding OR over-feeding.... so it kind of sucks because you can't let them get too starved and you have to be careful about giving them too much at the same time. All B-Complex is going to do in this situation is stimulate the appetite. A goat with toxemia will need energy...like Nutri-drench (swear by this stuff), or Karo Syrup (corn syrup) mixed with molasses. Also Probios since they won't be eating and you need to try and keep their rumen going. I give Probios in all situations of stress or illness however.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

It really does sound like toxemia from the info on FiasCo farms site..thank you firelight for posting that :hug:

Melinda, when you first posted in "Special Care" about her acting drunk, my first thought was polio due to having experienced similar symptoms in my then 5 month old doe, the symptoms are so similar to Toxemia...I pray that your other girls stay healthy and give you healthy kids in the next months, now that you have a resource for treatment should this show up in any of them, please don't hesitate to post your plan of action as it really could help someone elses goats. :hug:


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

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Just remember you did all you could so do not blame yourself for any of the decisions you made. Sorry you lost them !! God Bless


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

Sounds like your figuring it out, and it helps to get some answers to things like this, just don't beat yourself up because you didn't realize it sooner. It happens, and we learn and have to move past it.

Could very well be your other doe was butted in the stomach and lost her kid. We had that happen with a doe who was 4 months pregnant. 
She was at the bottom of the pecking order, healthy, no issues. We're certain she got butted by the herd queen or 2nd in command and caused her to lose the kid....


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

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Yup, you learn as you go. And so many things can have similar symptoms. Toxemia only really clicked for me when you mentioned the sweet smelling breath. I had one poisoned last year who I loved to death. She followed me around like a puppy. She got into the neighbor's yard and had some severe scouring after that. I just though she ate too much of his lush yard and I gave her a CD/T booster and some Pepto. She seemed perky and had a great appetite and then I found her collapsed a day later. If I would have known I would have given her some activated charcoal paste which I can buy at my local feed store and she would have probably been just fine....but sometimes you just don't know and figure it out too late and all you can do is live and learn.


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: A serious question............................Update  *

BTW sorry for the multiple treads on the same doe.My husband is like "they dont like when you do that your in trouble"LOL I tend to get a little frantic in stressful situations. I have definately learned alot thats for sure but hey I think we have done pretty good with the few exceptions because we have only had our goaties for a year and a half.Thanks for ALL the advice you guys are AWESOME!!


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

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I'm so sorry for your loss. Losing one is hard enough. But 3 more baby girls....heartbreaking.
:hugs:


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## Dunfactor (Dec 10, 2009)

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Oh no! I am so sorry to hear about your doe and her doelings.  How awful for you all :hug:

Tracy


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

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Rogersfarm said:


> BTW sorry for the multiple treads on the same doe.My husband is like "they dont like when you do that your in trouble"LOL I tend to get a little frantic in stressful situations. I have definately learned alot thats for sure but hey I think we have done pretty good with the few exceptions because we have only had our goaties for a year and a half.Thanks for ALL the advice you guys are AWESOME!!


No worries Melinda :hug:

You have done great with your goats...Even after raising my own the last 11 years and having goats around as I was growing up, I still learn new things about them...and what I have learned with experience has helped me out later as well as helped others in similar situations.


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## tracyqh (Aug 9, 2010)

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My heart is broken for you.


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## Lexibot (Jul 27, 2010)

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GOd that is just absolutely sick... I thought I had it bad when all my preggo does miscarried this year, to go through all that though... what a mess, god, I am sooo sorry, I really hope your luck changes.


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