# 2 month old tiny goat possible bloat and worms 5 days after worming



## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I have a 2 month old baby here that is super tiny from inbreeding (finally have worked with caretaker of the situation I help out with here to get the inbreeding stopped) she did great at first...but caught coccidiosis..got over it..then the caretakers goats on the other side all caught it..12 goats...and he put them over on the side my little rescue herd is on and she caught it again just a little over a week later. She responded to the treatment of Dymethox again by the third day..but she's never acted well since she first got it. I realized that she was a couple of months old and with the land these goats on the worms are so so bad..so that she probably needed to be wormed. It is why all the caretakers goats got so sick they had only been wormed once in a year I think. So I wormed her 5 days ago when I started her second treatment of dimethox.

Today she is acting even more run down. Her gums are white and her inside eyelids are white. I thought she might have bloat because I think she ate too much alfalfa flakes. In a hurry this morning to be somewhere I tossed too much over to her and her mom in my little enclosure in my back where I had them so I could keep an eye on her. She's so tiny her stomach does not seem to really poke out on the left..but it feels funny..like there is air in it..kinda water balloonish. And she is grunting in pain and breathing funny and keeps laying down. Can't keep up with her mom who is oblivious.

I need to put them out in the pasture because I have to be gone all day tomorrow and I can't feed her the alfalfa hay right now if she is having this problem (if that is what it is) so not sure what to do.

I gave her about 3 cc's of olive oil with a little baking soda..and she seemed to get up and walk a little more but then was down in pain again. I read that you are supposed to give goats a whole pint of oil..but she's so tiny..'maybe' 10 pounds...so I just gave her another 6cc syringe with baking soda.

and like I said I wormed her 5 days ago..but she is still so white in the gums and eyes and I see worms all on her butt. I used the purple wormer. Should I give her more..or a different kind? I just bought the quest horse wormer someone suggested to me a while back.

thanks...jamee


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm no sure about Quest...seems like I remember it's one of those "don't overdose this med"...type of med. You need to get some iron in her. There is an injectible iron for piglets...or I have Red Cell. I'd give her some B...either fortified b-complex or thiamine (thiamine is rx, get it from your vet). 

Typically, I use a wormer and then dose again 10 days later. I use Ivomectin for the does or Valbazen for the bucks.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

She needs iron (red cell) and Vit B 12 injections....she is very anemic....the water belly you are talking about if her rumen is not functioning at all..grinding teeth is gut pain...she needs C D ANtitoxin, and Banamine now...a bit of baking soda, 1/4 tsp. in enough water to drench...no feed..no pasture...just hay, water and electroytes...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm on Hawaii time so prob wrote this when everyone was sleeping..so just now getting the answer..had to do something last night so gave her the tiniest bit of quest...1/8th of a cc? She's up and around today. But I have to leave like NOW and be gone all day. 

So hopefully she makes it and hopefully our joke of a feed store carries antitoxin..I have been needign to get some. I'm learning as I go..inherited these abandoned goats...so dno't have all the tools.

thanks for the response...hopefully I didn't overdose her. She def still had worms though..her poop was changing again and saw lots of worms in it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The only worms you can see in poop is tape wormes...white wormer is needed..I choose Valbazen 1 cc per 10# ...also here is an article on treating anemia
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

so those are the only kind you see on thier butt? I've been seeing them a lot lately on these goats. When the vet would come and worm all the goats here when she was the caretaker..she used some clear kind that smells like apple..levasamol..somethign like that..we used to see worms come out in their poop.

I have some white wormer here..not sure what kind it is..but I've already wormed her with purple wormer then on the 6th day did quest..so now I most likely need to wait right?

thanks for the link..I am going to call the new vet here tomorrow and hopefully get a b12 shot for her. I have b12 in pill form..I know not as strong but I crushed a half a pill up and got it down her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would wait a week between wormers just so you dont over tax her body...but yes..you will see tape worms on the bum and in the poop...being heavy loaded will certainly cause anemia...good job on the V B12 pill...what ever works right  and with her being 2 months old, no chance she is bred I would choose Valbazen..1 cc per 10# 3 days in a row is what Im told here works best and with her being so bad with the tape I would do it for sure...once you take care of the tape you might see a nice growing spree : ) 
here is a link..there are three pages of info so click the next to read on  There use to be pix on here to show a goat with tape and then after treatment...the horn growth double in a short time as did the size of th goat...but most people dont see the huge harm in tape worm but boy it can do a lot of damamge
http://goat-link.com/content/view/201/143/#.Ub8SOvaDTL8


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm worried she can't wait a week...I did get red cell into her today. trying to give her lots of alfalfa. Bought 25% protein pellets (mannamar) but she wants nothing to do with the pellets.

that link brings me to the website..but there are no words or pics? It will be nice though if I can get her through this and help her out to grow nicely now that I understand the difference in that worm. so bummed I didn't realize and gave her that other dose of wormer.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she seems bad off then treat with Valbazen, dont wait..Go with what you see and feel in your gut..I have wormed three days in row before with no issues...of course its good to allow time for wormer to work and not to over due...but in some cases you have got to get aggressive...here is some info on treating anemia fro tennessee meat goats


> Producers who expect the anemic goat to be well quickly after deworming will be disappointed, because they've taken only the first step towards restoring the goat to good health. Daily injections of Vitamin B 12 given IM (into the muscle) and weekly oral dosing of Red Cell iron supplement or injectable iron for a minimum of two weeks are important supportive therapies. Vitamin B 12 is an injectable red liquid which must be obtained through a vet's prescription. Red Cell is an orally-dosed over-the-counter equine product. Ferrodex 100 and Dextran iron injectables are available OTC in most states. While it is possible to overdose a goat with iron (and copper), this probably won't happen even with daily dosing (except in kids) because rebuilding red blood cells occurs slowly. However, it is best to err on the side of safety and *dose the iron daily for a few days and then weekly thereafter*. Geritol is not recommended as an oral iron supplement for goats because it contains alcohol. Giving vitamin B 12 injections daily is safe because all of the B vitamins are water soluble -- what the goat doesn't use, it eliminates from its body in urine. A healthy rumen produces its own B vitamins daily. An anemic goat is obviously not a healthy goat. Estimated dosing for Vitamin B 12 is 4 cc per 100 pounds bodyweight; for Red Cell, 6 cc per 100 pounds bodyweight; for injectable Ferrodex 100, 4 cc per 100 pounds bodyweight. Producers should monitor the goat's reaction to these iron products, some of which may also contain copper, and adjust frequency and amount of dosages accordingly.


http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html
here is that other link again..hopefully it works for you
http://goat-link.com/content/view/72/109/#.Ub_NxPaDTL8
if not go to goatlink.com scroll down to baby goat section and you will find the article link for tape worm...Very Best wishes


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Don't forget pinworms. They can't be gotten rid of just with wormer. What do these worms look like?


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

the only place that carries the valbazen here has it for 61 bucks..I don't have the money for it right now..if I buy it I won't be able to buy hay and I'm low on that. It's 40 bucks a bail here on Maui. So I have to try the safeguard for now and pray it works. I see it's only 36 at jeffers (plus shipping) so as soon as I get some more mula..want to order that and ivomec from them (Ivomec here is 60 bucks to!) 

I did read that tennessee goat info on anemia today..it's what helped me know how to go get the red cell and the protien feed. I don't know how much of the protien feed to give. She won't even try it right now though.

the link worked this time..thanks! Those look like I would think tape worms should look. The worms these guys are putting out are small not taped like. little oval things..like tiny pieces of rice? is that still tapeworm?


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

pinworms..are those ones you can see with out a microscope too? These worms do not look flat and long..they are kind of like little pieces of rice.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes that is tape worm segments..and they carry the worm eggs..try to clean those up the best you can....try safe guard....

Keep in mind when ever you use Safe-Guard you MUST use it at TRIPLE the recommended dose on the package when administering to goats! So when a click on the tube says it will treat a 500lb calf, this means it will treat a 165lb goat.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

okay got it. I have some made for goats and I tripled it. Actually I accidently tripled the 25 lb dose and she is only 11 pounds..but I read everywhere that it's really hard to overdose with that stuff...so hopefully that was okay.she's so overloaded with chemicals already.

She is still up and around but looks like she feels like crap. her tummy still seems bloated to me..she grunts when I pick her up I know it does not feel good.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

poor baby...doesh er tummy feel firm or squishy..watery like??


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

...it is time now I think to give time fore the wormer to work...continue red cell treatment and I cant remember if you have C D Antitoxin> if so keep that going as well..b complex hay, no feed electros and water...so she has a choice..let me know how her tummy feels..firm or watery...?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I always give Safeguard 3 to 5 days in a row. One dose usually won't get all the buggers.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

happybleats said:


> ...it is time now I think to give time fore the wormer to work...continue red cell treatment and I cant remember if you have C D Antitoxin> if so keep that going as well..b complex hay, no feed electros and water...so she has a choice..let me know how her tummy feels..firm or watery...?


Her tummy feels squishy..watery to me. Her poop looks good...just has the worms.

I don't have CD antitoxin and I don't have vit B shots. (I have been squishing up B12 pills for her) I have to slowly get everything I need as I learn because I was thrown into this and I don't really have the $ for it. I rely on donations from the sales I make in my jewelry shop to benefit the goats and from another super nice gal who has taken to helping me out a little financially with them once a month. That was the next thing I was wanting to get but then all this stuff happened and I realized I need to get so many things. I'm out of grain and almost out of hay (it's 40 bucks a bail here) I see the C & D antitoxin on jeffers is 35 bucks..so most likely it's double that if I buy it here on Maui. Ivomec here is 60 bucks :\

I have been feeding her mom grain since she is nursing and I have her pinned up in my back area with minimal grass. So she has been eating some with her mom. I should take her out then when I give it to her mom?

I got the red cell and I got the protien pellets..but she does not want the pellets. I have power aid for electros...it has vitamin B in it..Gatoraid was suggested in something I read but it didn't have vitamin B. I left my pedialyte out all day in the sun so dumped it :\ that stuff is 7.95 a bottle here.

I'm worried she is getting attacked by the outside too..she has more nits stuck to her little hairs then any tiny little baby I have ever seen. (around her ear base and her checks and back of her neck) The vet gave me some horse spray in a green bottle for the nits on babies..told me it was from flies? But she is sickly and has a lot and acts like she is always itchy. could it be blood sucking lice?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Hey, I'm on the Big Island.

I have had problems with tapeworms. Valbazen worked great. As far as the mites on her fur goes, it's probably lice. I use CyLence to take care of that. If you can't get CyLence use diotomacious earth (spelled?) or seven dust.

Send me a pm if you can't afford CyLence or Valbazen and I'll toss some in some ziplock bags in the mail to you tomorrow. You should get it Friday.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I should say it feels kinda squishy..not normal..but not as squishy as the baby here who just died. I need to check again tomorrow.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Dayna said:


> Hey, I'm on the Big Island.
> 
> I have had problems with tapeworms. Valbazen worked great. As far as the mites on her fur goes, it's probably lice. I use CyLence to take care of that. If you can't get CyLence use diotomacious earth (spelled?) or seven dust.
> 
> Send me a pm if you can't afford CyLence or Valbazen and I'll toss some in some ziplock bags in the mail to you tomorrow. You should get it Friday.


Dayna! Thank you!!! I will PM you!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like the bugs and worms are bringing her down...I would comb her well with a fine tooth comb..keep a bucket of water with Apple Cider Vineagar in it to dip the comb in each time you stroke, you want to comb off as many bugs as you can...keep doing this until she is fairly wet from the solution...towel dry her and sether in the sun, do this a few times a day or even more often...the worms are bad...and only wormer will help but the lice will make her so stressed fromt he iching and biting...both will keep her anemic..so keep up the red cell...crushed vit. are just fine...what ever you have to keep her going..keep the lice off the best you can ..hopefully the cylance and valabzem will get there soon and get this little one up and going...remember..if baby has lice..mom has lice so comb her as well..best of luck


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

happybleats said:


> sounds like the bugs and worms are bringing her down...I would comb her well with a fine tooth comb..keep a bucket of water with Apple Cider Vineagar in it to dip the comb in each time you stroke, you want to comb off as many bugs as you can...keep doing this until she is fairly wet from the solution...towel dry her and sether in the sun, do this a few times a day or even more often...the worms are bad...and only wormer will help but the lice will make her so stressed fromt he iching and biting...both will keep her anemic..so keep up the red cell...crushed vit. are just fine...what ever you have to keep her going..keep the lice off the best you can ..hopefully the cylance and valabzem will get there soon and get this little one up and going...remember..if baby has lice..mom has lice so comb her as well..best of luck


Ok will go out there as much as I can today. Thankfully I work at home..but thats a blessing as well as a curse..I get none of my work done :shrug: I have a cat flea comb so will use that.

So if the valbazen for her comes in Friday...should I just right away switch to it even though today was 3 days of safeguard?

Oh and I felt her tummy more today..it's feeling more normal now I think. It was feeling more squishy a few days ago..I even thought she had bloat. It may feel a little squishy underneath..not on the sides now. She just complains when I put any pressure on it...when I pick her up..and she has hardly any weight to her that would make her tummy hurt when she's picked up. She doesn't complain as bad as she did before..so I do see some progress.

I put electrolytes out in a little bowl to instead of me harassing her with yet another syringe..and she is drinking it on her own


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she already feels better : ) yes..you can give valbazen whenit comes...its 1 cc per 10#...the cat flea combis perfect. 
most goats love the electrolyte recipe...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I packed up quite a few different meds. So you should be able to treat several things. Tossing it in the mail in a few minutes.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Dayna said:


> I packed up quite a few different meds. So you should be able to treat several things. Tossing it in the mail in a few minutes.


Goodness Dayna..thank you so much! I feel so bad for these goaties..but it would have been way worse had I not stepped in and with out the help I've received from everyone.

The funny thing is just before we moved to this place I told my husband "once the geriatric kitties are gone...lets try no pets for a while..I could stand a little freedom"...soon after 2 rescue chickens and 10 rescue goats happened....there must be a reason for this lol!


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

*New question!! giving her valbazen after safeguard*

So I should be getting my emergency dose of valbazen from Dayna in the mail today. I have had Twiggy on the safeguard for 3 days as of yesterday. Should I give her the dose of valbazen today just to make sure or is that too much for her system?...esp with all the others she's had with in this last couple of weeks. Or should I wait a certain amount of time for follow up treatment?

I was not able to see her poop yesterday so I don't know if the worms are still there. but the day before she had plenty. She actually cried and came running down to me when I put out her hay..so she is acting better!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Well Im torn here....her has had alot of meds ...but safe guard does not work well for the other worms...since she is weak I would be incliced to give her a dose then wait ten days before treating again...
Im so happy she is feling better...


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Well Im torn here....her has had alot of meds ...but safe guard does not work well for the other worms...since she is weak I would be incliced to give her a dose then wait ten days before treating again...
> Im so happy she is feling better...


She hasn't only had the safeguard though...I gave her the cydectin and then when I saw the worms and her getting so weak I gave her quest on the 6th day after that because I didn't realize they were tape worms and that I had to use a diff med. So she shoudl be covered for haemonchus and lungworms for the moment..I just have to worry about the tape infestation in her.

I can't give it to her today anyways..the valbazen didn't come in yet like Dayna and I thought it would (inter island mail usually just takes a day) so I can't give it to her today anyways.

I did notice though that one of the goats that I know now has been struggling with tape worms for months..I started giving her the Safeguard and today was her last dose...well she pooped before I gave it to her and no worms! so perhaps safeguard is working here and hopefully it worked for little Twiggy!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> She hasn't only had the safeguard though...I gave her the cydectin


well then I would wait for ten days and treat...Sounds lie she has enough wormer inher right now...: )


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

happybleats said:


> well then I would wait for ten days and treat...Sounds lie she has enough wormer inher right now...: )


Okay....and now I will have valbazen for her when it's time. She will be getting more chemical on her right away anyways as soon as I get the Cylence from Dayna for her lice.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Safeguard still works here for Tapes, Roundworms, and Pin worms. I also use it for Giardia which is like cocci from drinking water that beavers, mink, and nutria live in. Can't avoid it in the Oregon forest. Works good on my dogs too.
I think most don't dose it high enough or for long enough.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

thats awesome it still works there! I don't know if it doesn't work here...I don't know any goat people here. But I think it's working on tapes because my other 4 mo old baby with tape...they were gone after 2 doses


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That's great! But don't quit too soon on your 4 month old. Give it the full 5 days so that the head detaches on the Tapes. If even one head is left, it will grow a new worm. Then rake, rake, rake, out the pen to get as many egg pouches as possible.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

goathiker said:


> That's great! But don't quit too soon on your 4 month old. Give it the full 5 days so that the head detaches on the Tapes. If even one head is left, it will grow a new worm. Then rake, rake, rake, out the pen to get as many egg pouches as possible.


Oh!...I thought it was 3 days for the safeguard. Shoot! I stopped little Twiggy at 3 and didn't do anything yesterday.

I have my 4 month old and a 3 month old with tape who have had 3 doses of Safeguard as of yesterday and the caretakers 6 mo old whom I started on safeguard yesterday..and so now I do not have much safeguard left at all. But Dayna just sent me some Valbazen for Twiggy which I was going to wait to dose with that in 10 days. I am pretty sure there is enough there to share...so should I switch my 4 and 3 month old to valbazen and I hopefully have enough SG to keep twiggy and the 6 mo old on it for 2 more days? The consenses her earlier was that my poor Twiggy has been dosed with so many meds I should wait on the valbazen until the 10 days is up.

I just ordered some Valbazen at Jeffers (cheaper then buying here...even with shipping)...I have to add to my goatie meds little by little...so I figured right now that is the next important thing I can add.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

3 is probably fine for this. You don't have some of the other creepies that we get. The Valbanzen will wipe out what's left now that they are on the run.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

goathiker said:


> 3 is probably fine for this. You don't have some of the other creepies that we get. The Valbanzen will wipe out what's left now that they are on the run.


Okay thats good..will feel good when I can finally dose the valbazen. She's got a while I'm sure to be herself again..but seems to be doing okay now


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