# Labor problem? Please help me.



## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't know if I am overreacting. I have a doe who is very close to her due date... 147 days. She is VERY swollen by her girl parts. Please tell me what is going on!? I'm panicking. The pictures don't do it justice. Do I have a serious problem on my hands? What do I do!?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

That is swollen. It looks unusually "tight" swollen in the photo, but photos are often deceiving. When they get close to birth they get "loose" swollen. How does the area feel? Is the skin tight or loose? Does she seem sore? The area should feel loose and it shouldn't feel painful or hot. If she has heat, pain, or tight swelling going on I'm going to suspect she got stung or had some kind of allergic reaction.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you for responding. She is very loose and squishy. I am such a spaz, I'm sorry you guys have to put up with me freaking out all the time! Neither of my other girls had this happen, so I thought it was a problem. This one is my favorite doe, and I guess I'm a little paranoid that something will go wrong.


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## yankeedoodle (Apr 13, 2018)

Definitely unusual. waiting to see how this turns out.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

It looks like she will kid before her due date. From the picture the top of her udder looks pretty full too.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

You're right @Goat_Scout her udder is pretty full, and has been for a while now. I started night watches about 4 days ago. I have a feeling that the full moon tonight might bring on labor. I know that sounds crazy, but I've had labor and delivery nurses tell me that it happens all the time with woman, so their must be something to it.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I’ve heard that with animals too. Good luck!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I've never seen a backside quite like that before. But I also wouldn't fret as long as it doesn't feel hot or tight. Good luck kidding!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Thanks guys. I am definitely still concerned, but slightly comforted at this point. I'm going to post another picture that shows the size a little better. It's huge! I'll be sure to keep you all posted. I may call the vet tomorrow if she hasn't kidded. She is still eating, drinking, and loving getting pets. No warmth in that area, and it's loose and like Jello. I don't feel any ligs. We'll see what happens. If you pray, please pray that I don't go into panic mode! I need to keep a clear head and make good decisions!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Oh wow, that is big.  Hopefully she is just preparing to push out a humongous kid or two! 
Prayers sent.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How bizarre! Do you happen to have any photographs of her backend from a month or two ago?

I mean, many of my does get so loose back they that the whole vulva sways when the trot but this is very unique looking. I do think that it being squishy/jello is much better than it being tight or hard.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> How bizarre! Do you happen to have any photographs of her backend from a month or two ago?
> 
> I mean, many of my does get so loose back they that the whole vulva sways when the trot but this is very unique looking. I do think that it being squishy/jello is much better than it being tight or hard.


This was exactly 2 weeks ago.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't know why it's not uploading. I'll try again .


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Oh man, well there ya go!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

BEAUTIFUL udder!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you! She is a FF too! I'm really proud of her. She's my baby!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Because her udder has been so full for so long, I kinda wonder if her being so super swollen is related to that. Some does can actually have milk glands up in that area, and if super milky(like your doe seems to be) they can actually get milk up in that area. If so, there is nothing to do but wait for it to go away, and it isn’t an issue.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

You know @Ranger1, I really think you're on to something. I noticed at the same time that her udder became lopsided, and one side was smaller than before. Very strange. As of this morning, she's still the same. No better, no worse, no kids. I'm really hoping they'll come today!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Guys, I got another problem. Mocha has something going on with her eyes. Looks like she is getting anemic? I don't suspect worms, we did fecals a couple months ago, and all was fine. I was just going to collect again today. Anyways, please someone chime in about her eyes. I'm going to call and see if I can get the vet to come out, BUT I really don't think they have enough experience with goats. No livestock vet in my area at all. You guys are my lifeline! Please advise me quickly! Does this have something to do with the other problem? Is she bleeding internally? I have red cell, but don't know how to dose a goat.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

It's hard to tell from the photo, but she doesn't look too pale. Definitely do another fecal, because two months ago was a long time ago in terms of worms. Anyway, it's not an emergency, and certainly not bleeding internally.  These goats sure like to drive us up the walls though!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Is her lower eyelid membrane normally exposed like that?

I don't think there is any emergency at all! If she is eating, drinking, and behaving normally for a heavily pregnant doe then you just keep hoping for beautiful twin does and an easy birth! What type of buck is she bred to?


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

If she were human I'd suggest bananas for potassium....


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Her swollen lady bits look fluid filled to me. Now her eyelid does. My very uneducated guess is that she's retaining fluid from...well I don't know but something related to the pregnancy. I would be looking at things that can cause that.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I was going to suggest something like fluid retention as well. I've known women who had that problem in late pregnancy. I have no idea what causes it though.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Einhorn said:


> If she were human I'd suggest bananas for potassium....


Goats can eat bananas too!


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

Yes they can! Potassium can help with swelling in humans. I don't know enough to know if this is the same for goats. 
But they like bananas...


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Damfino said:


> I was going to suggest something like fluid retention as well. I've known women who had that problem in late pregnancy. I have no idea what causes it though.


Yeah, having had 4 children that was the first thing I thought of. In humans it can be from toxemia though looking at the signs in goats it appears to present very different. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, though.

My girls LOVE bananas!


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## Korita (Jan 11, 2018)

I’m with the mommas. I’ve had 3 children and that looks like it may be fluid retention of some sort. Sorry to get TMI but my 3rd kiddo kicked my butt and I had so much pressure towards the end, I probably would have looked like that if she waited another couple weeks ha ha Hopefully she kids soon and all goes back to normal with healthy kids.


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you all. I feel very reassured. I agree, I was blown up like a baloon in my second pregnancy. Her eyelids aren't normally like this, which is why it concerned me. I gave her a dose of red cell, b-complex, and electrolytes in her water. I'll worm her as soon as she delivers. Going to collect from all my girls today for the fecal. Thank you all so much for your help. I appreciate it more than words can express! I'll be keeping you all posted!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

She is bread to a La mancha buck. I love my LaManchas!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Hey guys, 
I think I found out what it is. It's called periparturient edema. She has all the signs. Question about worming.... this article says not to use certain dewormers (the kind readily available here). What can I use? I need some recommendations. I don't know if the part of the country makes a difference. I am in a semi desert region of Souther California.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/periparturientedema.html


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

Did you do a fecal? Does she have a huge worm load?


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

I have never done my own fecals. I collect and send them to the lab. I do have a high powered microscope, but don't know how to read anything. It is digital ,so I could possibly get a picture and post it here for reading. At this point ,I feel I should just worm her instead of waiting for the results. Typically I will not treat unless I know their is a wormload. The last reading was extremely suspicious to me because they found NOTHING! They said good job, keep doing whatever your doing. I was surprised. I feel that under these circumstances, I'd rather just worm her. I don't do it flippantly, so even if she doesn't have worms, I don't think it will hurt. I hope at least some of you will agreee with me. I need to know what is safe during pregnancy. I have access to fenbendazole and cydectin... both for cows, and I would need help with dosing. Thanks all!


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

I was just asking because i don't know much about edemtous goats, and wondered if you wormed her and didn't see a change what else could you do?

I am trying to learn,I'm certainly not judging! I have two does expecting and I'm filling my brain with info!

Please keep us informed on her progress!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Einhorn said:


> I was just asking because i don't know much about edemtous goats, and wondered if you wormed her and didn't see a change what else could you do?
> 
> I am trying to learn,I'm certainly not judging! I have two does expecting and I'm filling my brain with info!
> 
> Please keep us informed on her progress!


Oh, I'm so sorry my response read that way! I felt no ill will in your question at all! I was just trying to explain everything, so everyone could understand my situation. We're good! Hugs!:happygoat:


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## CrossTheCreekFarm (Apr 29, 2018)

lhorning said:


> I have never done my own fecals. I collect and send them to the lab. I do have a high powered microscope, but don't know how to read anything. It is digital ,so I could possibly get a picture and post it here for reading. At this point ,I feel I should just worm her instead of waiting for the results. Typically I will not treat unless I know their is a wormload. The last reading was extremely suspicious to me because they found NOTHING! They said good job, keep doing whatever your doing. I was surprised. I feel that under these circumstances, I'd rather just worm her. I don't do it flippantly, so even if she doesn't have worms, I don't think it will hurt. I hope at least some of you will agreee with me. I need to know what is safe during pregnancy. I have access to fenbendazole and cydectin... both for cows, and I would need help with dosing. Thanks all!


I agree with you here on deworming her even without the fecal (and I follow the FAMACHA method and The Five Point Check typically). A fecal sample from a single goat can be unreliable. Worms eggs don't necessarily shed in perfectly even amounts, so you might get a clean fecal one day, and a high worm load the next.

Cydectin is safe during pregnancy, but I use the sheep and goat drench. I wouldn't personally recommend drenching the cattle pour-on. I know some that do it, but I'm not fond of my goats ingesting the carriers that they use in pour-ons. (So, I guess, I'm no help with the dosage there!)

Fenbendazole is Safeguard, right? It would be safe during pregnancy as well, but at least here (in the southeast) Barber pole worms are very resistant to it.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I use Prohibit for Barber Pole worms. I believe it's safe for goats (I've looked it up countless times, but for some reason don't remember exactly!! But I have given it to my pregnant does before, with no problems), and it is really the only thing that is effective around here for BP.


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## CrossTheCreekFarm (Apr 29, 2018)

Goat_Scout said:


> I use Prohibit for Barber Pole worms. I believe it's safe for goats (I've looked it up countless times, but for some reason don't remember exactly!! But I have given it to my pregnant does before, with no problems), and it is really the only thing that is effective around here for BP.


Yes, we actually use a combination of Valbazen, Cydectin, and Prohibit. All 3 given at the same time. This is a new recommendation out of the University of Maryland Small Ruminant Extension in 2017. Valbazen is contra-indicated in the first 45 days of pregnancy, but I usually will skip it entirely in pregnant does, and just give the Prohibit and Cydectin.

There's a great slideshow from U of MD about the benefits of using a combo dewormer, I've linked it in this blog post: http://www.crossthecreekfarm.com/blog/goat-deworming-protocol


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

@CrossTheCreekFarm - Thanks for the link! We have had a hard time with BP worms this past year so I will have to look into that!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

CrossTheCreekFarm said:


> I agree with you here on deworming her even without the fecal (and I follow the FAMACHA method and The Five Point Check typically). A fecal sample from a single goat can be unreliable. Worms eggs don't necessarily shed in perfectly even amounts, so you might get a clean fecal one day, and a high worm load the next.
> 
> Cydectin is safe during pregnancy, but I use the sheep and goat drench. I wouldn't personally recommend drenching the cattle pour-on. I know some that do it, but I'm not fond of my goats ingesting the carriers that they use in pour-ons. (So, I guess, I'm no help with the dosage there!)
> 
> Fenbendazole is Safeguard, right? It would be safe during pregnancy as well, but at least here (in the southeast) Barber pole worms are very resistant to it.


Thank you! I didn't realize they were the same! Thanks a bunch for the info!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

On another note.... I think Mocha is in the early stages of labor. I think we'll have kids by tomorrow at the latest!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Yeah, I totally missed that nobody had rolled down the eyelid to get that picture. Now I’m on board with the fluid retention, not the milk thing I talked about. Hope she kids okay and the fluid goes away!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Ranger1 said:


> Yeah, I totally missed that nobody had rolled down the eyelid to get that picture. Now I'm on board with the fluid retention, not the milk thing I talked about. Hope she kids okay and the fluid goes away!


I am so thankful for any suggestions that might pushed me in the right direction. Some might be right, some might be wrong ,but ALL are worth perusing! You are all a blessing to me! We are definitely in labor now, however contractions aren't consistent. Roughly 5-10 minutes apart. When should I go in if I don't see anything?


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## CrossTheCreekFarm (Apr 29, 2018)

lhorning said:


> I am so thankful for any suggestions that might pushed me in the right direction. Some might be right, some might be wrong ,but ALL are worth perusing! You are all a blessing to me! We are definitely in labor now, however contractions aren't consistent. Roughly 5-10 minutes apart. When should I go in if I don't see anything?


I try not to intervene unless momma has been actively pushing for 30 minutes. Although I will say, with her unusual case, if she seems to be really struggling, I certainly wouldn't blame you for going in sooner with this gal! Fingers crossed for healthy beautiful babies soon!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

How is she?


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Her contractions are still inconsistent. She is not acting like she is in distress. I'm seriously trying not to be impatient, but I'm ready to spring into action I'd I don't see anything soon. She just started looking like she is pushing on her contractions. So if I don't see anything soon I'll go in. Rather be safe than sorry.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

What I did with my girls was set a timer for 30 minutes as soon as hard pushing started. That way I was less tempted to intervene too early or get distracted and wait too long. I can see that edema causing some issues with getting the kid out, though. Maybe do a quick check for dilation? That way you would be able to know if she's progressing at least.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Any kids yet? Hope all is well!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

We have two beautiful babies. One doeling and one buckling. It was a difficult delivery. Momma is still not doing well. I'm going to start a new thread about her condition in a little while. Babies are doing okay so far. I had to give them a bottle of colstrum because mommy is not able to stand yet. Im worried for my girl.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Congratulations on the kids! 
I'm so sorry about Mocha.  Hope she improves!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> Congratulations on the kids!
> I'm so sorry about Mocha.  Hope she improves!


Thank you


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Hurray for babies! I am praying for Mocha!


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## lhorning (Jun 26, 2017)

groovyoldlady said:


> Hurray for babies! I am praying for Mocha!


Thank you so much for the prayers @groovyoldlady ! We need them so badly right now!


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