# Help asap



## LaMee

My goat is 4 days over due and she still hasent have the baby yet and she is not pushing the baby out what do i do respond asap


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## JaLyn

Is she in labor?


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## LaMee

yes


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## sunshinegoat

How long has she been in labor? Is she pushing/straining? Is there any discharge/ water breaking etc?


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## LaMee

for a waile and no and no


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## LaMee

Is there any discharge/ water breaking etc?[/QUOTE]
 auculy yea she has white stuff coming out


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## LaMee

and when she lays down her areas and some of the baby comes out but when we help her she stands up it pops right back in


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## StaceyRosado

go in with two fingers and see if you feel anything - could be a tangle of kids or one not positioned correctly.


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## StaceyRosado

Check this link out --- scroll down to the pictures

shows you how to reposition kids if needed and descriptions 
http://www.cornerstonefarm.net/kidding.html


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## LaMee

kk i will try that


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## ksalvagno

Is there a vet you can call or a very experienced goat person that can come over and help you?


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## sunshinegoat

Is there anyway you could take a picture and post it? How long has this been happening. Is she acting nervous, stressed or in pain? If she's a first timer she may be nervous and confused so maybe once you examine her and see if there is a real problem or not let her be for a little while and see if she relaxes. Then she may be more apt to let you help her if need be.
Do you have a vet nearby you could cal and describe the situation? Sometimes they can just help you over the phone. I know there was a list on this forum of people you could call that can walk you through it. Does anyone have that list/link handy?


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## LaMee

for about 4 days now


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## sunshinegoat

A picture would help. Are you sure of the due date? She may have whats called a uterine or vaginal prolapse. If there are a lot of babies they run out of room and when the momma lies down it can push on her back there and it looks like something is going to come out. If this is what it is, it is okay as long as it goes back in.. If this is not what it is you should see if you can get a vet out to help you.


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## ThreeHavens

Are you sure it's a baby coming out? You see hooves? If it's a red mass, it may be a prolapse.


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## LaMee

yea we saw hoove and she stude up and in it went


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## StaceyRosado

have someone hold her and wash up good, then try to feel inside with 2 fingers and then 3 then 4 and try to grab those hooves and pull a bit with the contractions. Pull in a downward motion.

did you read the article? it will be helpful


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## LaMee

Yes i did read the article and i will do that soon as my parner awakes for her nap


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## StaceyRosado

I suggest you get someone to help you asap or tie your goat up gently and go in on your own. If that kid is stuck - with its head back - then you may loose kid and mom if you keep waiting


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## LaMee

And like what types of contracions like short breaths and whineing and laying on her side or some thing differt than those contracions???


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## StaceyRosado

um thats contractions -- you try to pull with them but if not you just pull as needed -- but check first for proper positioning of the kid. 

Every minute is important I URGE you to go out and do this NOW for the goats sake


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## LaMee

ok but when do i pull


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## nancy d

When you get your hand in there she will push. Those are the contractions we are speaking of.
Try to get hold of front legs. when she pushes you pull in downward motion.
Make sure hooves are pointing downward first & head is forward, not turnedback.


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## LaMee

but how do i know if the goat is backwords


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## StaceyRosado

as nancy said - but Ive also had to just grab and pull without even noticing for contractions


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## LaMee

so do i need a glove or any thing


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## StaceyRosado

no you dont - just wash up like I said before so you are nice and clean - I take out a bucket of soapy water so I can wash up right before goign in.


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## StaceyRosado

YOU CAN DO THIS!

but if you are going to keep her waiting then you NEED TO CALL A VET!


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## LaMee

ok thanks all


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## LaMee




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## ogfabby

That's a prolapse. If she isn't straining and having contractions, she isn't in labor.


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## crocee

That looks like a prolapse. As long as it goes back in it should be OK but you may want to have a vet look at her.


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## ThreeHavens

That's a prolapse DO NOT PULL IT. If it goes back in when she stands up it should be okay


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## milkmaid

That does look like a prolapse. I have no experience with prolapses BUT I do know that if she has gone into active labor and doesn't get the kids out pretty quickly, then she NEEDS help. It sounded like you were saying she was in active labor, but I may have misunderstood.


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## nancy d

LaMee do you have a goat mentor near by? Someone needs to look at her. Do you have a vet you can send that pic to?


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## LaMee

is that good or bad


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## firelight27

A prolapse is not a kid. She might not be in labor at all. It sounds like you need someone who is experienced with birthing goats to come out, or a vet. We can only help you so much online. You need HANDS ON help I think.


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## LaMee

nancy d said:


> LaMee do you have a goat mentor near by? Someone needs to look at her. Do you have a vet you can send that pic to?


 The vet thing yea my vet i dont know if he can look at her becuse i live SD and we are having a blizzerd so the roads are closed so he might not she her


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## LaMee

She is having contracions but i do have a friend but she is not anwsering her phone so i dont know how this is going to work


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## firelight27

Can you clean up and go inside and feel around? If you can't get your hand in there she isn't dilated enough to give birth. Just because the doe is uncomfortable or groaning, etc. doesn't necessarily mean it is contractions. A heavily pregnant doe is usually uncomfortable. Are her ligaments gone? If they are you know for sure she is in labor.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/prenatalcare.html ... There are instructions/photos on checking ligaments on this page.

If they are gone, and she is opened up enough to get a hand in, you can feel for kids in the canal. If there is a kid, and its stuck, you just feel the body...feel for the head. Keep calm and visualize what part you are touching. The baby needs to either come out with head and front legs forward, or butt and back legs (black legs stretched out.) If its coming out forward but the head is folded back (or the legs) you can push the baby back into the uterus, then trace the legs/head back to the body and gently pull them straight and then pull the kid out. If its backwards and its legs are curled up, you push it back in and straight the legs and pull it out. Just know that once you get the parts straightened, if you let go they might snap back, especially the head. Just stay calm. If you feel around gently and don't have sharp nails, you aren't going to hurt the doe by having your hand in there.


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## LaMee

. Are her ligaments gone? i dont know at all


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## milkmaid

It shows how to feel for ligaments on this page.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/prenatalcare.html


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## LaMee

she sort of has that


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## sunshinegoat

Can you get a picture of her from behind and one from the side? Is her udder full and tight? Has she been eating and drinking and going to the bathroom normally? I had a goat have her babies many days past her due date and she was a first timer so 4 days isn't too bad. Just remember to relax bc if you are nervous she will be nervous. Can you feel the right side of her bell....is there anything hard in there(that would be a baby) ? If you can still feel them on her side than you still have more time before she kids.


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## nancy d

Any doe can kid within the general time frame of 142-160 days.
Right now my concern is the prolapse or whatever it is. And whether or not she is in labor.
I do not have any experience with prolapse.


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## firelight27

I'm sorry but the help given here is probably all we can give. More photos might help, but it sounds like you really need assistance from someone with more knowledge, someone who can come out.


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## JaLyn

I didn't mean to run off on you but I had to go i'm glad others jumped on to help you. Hope everything is ok..thinking of you and your doe..


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## LaMee

sunshinegoat said:


> Can you get a picture of her from behind and one from the side? Is her udder full and tight? Has she been eating and drinking and going to the bathroom normally? I had a goat have her babies many days past her due date and she was a first timer so 4 days isn't too bad. Just remember to relax bc if you are nervous she will be nervous. Can you feel the right side of her bell....is there anything hard in there(that would be a baby) ? If you can still feel them on her side than you still have more time before she kids.


Her udders are not full yet yes she has been eating yes ok and I did talk to a vet as long as it goes back in she will go back in she is just fine


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## firelight27

LaMee said:


> Her udders are not full yet yes she has been eating yes ok and I did talk to a vet as long as it goes back in she will go back in she is just fine


Thats great! It sounds like it is just a prolapse and not a kid. All her moaning, panting, etc. is likely due to being big and fat and uncomfortable. Lol.

Try and learn to check for ligaments really well, thats the only 100% accurate indicator of labor. When she is in labor, that whole area to either side of her spine above her tail (the pockets) will be mush. You should be able to basically pinch your fingers around her spine there and her tail will feel "loose".

If you suspect she is in labor, just check on her once every hour if you can (or even every two hours). If you see a long, amber/clear string of goo hanging out, kids will be there within the hour. If you see white gunk coming out of her, thats just the plug, and they will lose bits and pieces of it before kidding (sometimes a month or more) so that doesn't mean she is in labor necessarily. If you keep checking on her and she is pushing, then thats a sure sign. Don't worry, you'll know for SURE she is pushing. Its very obvious. If she doesn't appear to be in distress, or pushing, or sick (won't eat/drink, poo/pee looks weird, tail clamped down, head hanging, just acting weak, etc...) then I wouldn't worry much. They will absolutely trick you and makae you rip your hair out trying to figure out when its time! Good luck!


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## StaceyRosado

good info firelight

here is my page on does from their heats to kidding -- scroll down a bit to the contractions etc 
http://www.endofthelinefarm.com/fromheattobirth.htm


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## ramblinwoman

Hi. I have a pygmy who is dealing with crystals. He now is suffering from a prolapsed rectum and truthfully I am feeling kind of helpless. He is on heavy antibiotics but I feel like he isn't doing very well. He cries in the middle of the night and he has been having a really hard time. He has lost a lot of energy and he seems to be laying all the time. Help!


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## happybleats

I would load him up and get him to the vet...a shot of banamine will help him feel a bit more confortable but he is in a lot of pain...Im sorry this is happening for both of you...you sound as desperate as he must feel....please get him to a vet...he needs help now..


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## ramblinwoman

Okay. Thank you. I have no vet that I can use until the am. Are these symptoms fatal? I have been doing all I can with little knowledge of the heart of the situation and all I want is for him to be comfortable but he clearly isn't.


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## happybleats

sounds like he has Urinary Calculi and perhaps frompsuhing to pee he caused a prolaps Rectum ....could have other issues...if left untreated UC can be fatal..I have not personally dealt with uC but have read plenty on it...it is painful..here is an article to help you know whats going on 
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/urinarycalculi06.html

Some treat with apple Cider vinegar and ammonium chloride..for tonight if you have Banamine..I would give him some...1 cc per 100# or two adult aspirin...then get him to the vet first thing in the AM.... 
again .Im sorry you are having this happen...I know it is scary..


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## ramblinwoman

Yeah. I have given him antibiotics since Thursday. He is on uroeze tabs 400mg, 5 pills every 12 hours and smz tmp susp 240mg and 5 cc every 24 hours. His crying has stopped during the night but now he seems really weak and is separating himself from everyone. I am scared that he is not getting better at all due to his state. I tried bringing him inside but he didn't want to stay in at all.


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## happybleats

sounds like you have done everything you can on your end for him...: ) he is a lucky boy...Hopefully a vet can help him the rest of the way.....Do you have a good vet for goats?


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## ramblinwoman

I hope so. The only goat vet in town seems to be good. But the treatment doesn't seem to be working. Just a scared mom.


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## happybleats

If you have B complex might help his energy some...I know your scared...just try to keep him comfy as you can til morning..maybe 2 adult aspirin to help him some...hugs


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## ramblinwoman

Thank you very much.


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## StaceyRosado

Treating UC with antibiotics isn't going to help him. He needs ammonium chloride given as a drench (mix with water) to desolve stones. If he has one lodged at the end of his penis he needs that little pizzel end cut off to allow the pee and cristals to pass


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## Wlschwallenberg

StaceyRosado said:


> Treating UC with antibiotics isn't going to help him. He needs ammonium chloride given as a drench (mix with water) to desolve stones. If he has one lodged at the end of his penis he needs that little pizzel end cut off to allow the pee and cristals to pass


Agreed.


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## ramblinwoman

Little waylon passed away today. I had to take him to the vet and due to a rupture the best thing for him was to put him down. It's tragic and heartbreaking but he was in a world of pain.


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## happybleats

Im so sorry....sounds like you did the best thing for him and his suffering..


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## AmyBoogie

I'm so sorry about Little Waylon.


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