# Feeding new kids



## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

So I decided early spring that next year I was going to build a coop, have chickens and get a few goats for milk, maybe meat...not sure I can do that yet. Anywhos, I got two kids dropped into my lap. My Neice had bought mom and wethered brother and she had two kids. She thought they were 3.5-4 months old, but wasn't going to be able to keep the goats and since I wasn't really ready for the whole big goat group, I took just the kids. I contacted the lady who had them before and found out the babies would not be three months old until the end of June. I freaked a little because I wasn't completely sure about the dietary needs. I bred dachshunds for years but was completely confident of my knowledge before I started. I have read and read basically cramming and there is so much contradicting info out there on my goat issue. I did not feed them milk when I got them home because I was told the mom rarely let them eat anymore. They immediately started eating grass and I give the alfalfa hay which they eat well. I have loose minerals and baking soda out for them. They are not really interested in the kid pellets I bought. Do they need something else? I have no idea what I'm doing, but they seem happy. I had to travel for a couple of days and my in-laws watched them. When I got home last night, they were so excited to see me! It made me feel like I was doing something right.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Take away the baking soda. They make bicarbonate on their own and eating baking soda will tell their body not to make it. Then when you have a bloat problem, the baking soda will no longer work. You can always offer them a bottle of very warm milk and see if they are interested but at that age I wouldn't push it. Just leave a small amount of pellets out and they will eventually start eating them.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Sounds like you're doing a great job!


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Ok, so no baking soda then? Everywhere I read it says to offer it. Also I've read to offer sea salt?


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Thank you groovyoldlady!


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> Take away the baking soda. They make bicarbonate on their own and eating baking soda will tell their body not to make it. Then when you have a bloat problem, the baking soda will no longer work. You can always offer them a bottle of very warm milk and see if they are interested but at that age I wouldn't push it. Just leave a small amount of pellets out and they will eventually start eating them.


No baking soda, really? The breeder we got our babies from told me to give it to them daily, 1 tsp in every bottle. Should I quit that?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Read this article:

http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php/battling-bloat


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Read this article:
> 
> http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php/battling-bloat


Thank you sooooo much! This was super helpful!


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

What about Ammonium Chloride? I keep reading that wethers can get stones. I have a brother and sister (he is a wether) and they are together.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

What age was he when he was wethered?

Diet is a big consideration with whether, he needs minimal grain and the grain that he does get should have ammonium chloride added. The goal is for the calcium/phosphorus ratio in his diet to be 2:1.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If possible, don't grain him at all, just quality hay and forage.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

No problem  
There are many ways to prevent UC in wethers
- wether them late. This gives them time for the urethra to develop. 
- feed little to no grain. Wethers just don't really need grain, and if the calcium to phosphorous ratio is off, that's not good. You want the ratio to be at least 1:2, but 1:4 and up is better. You can look at the mineral contents on your feed bag and do the math.
- give them apple cider vinegar in their water. The acid in ACV dissolves the phosphorous crystals in the urine.
- give them ammonium chloride in their water. Works like ACV, just more acidic.
- feed alfalfa hay or pellets. Alfalfa is high in calcium and helps to offset the phosphorous in the feed.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

I was told he (they) were about 3.5 months old, but when I called the lady who actually delivered them they won't be three months until June 29. That means he was probably wethered around five weeks old. They just fell off this last week. She was freaking out because she though he would breed the sister or mom. If I had been raising goats for a while, I would be just shaking my head. Stuff like this would drive me crazy over people being stupid. Argh.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Wow that's way too early. He can't breed his mom and sisters until at least seven weeks, and even then it's very rare. You're going to have to be really careful about UC.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

The girl that did it was originally told they were older. 
How do I keep him from getting it?


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Never mind I read above what you said. Duh! My brains isn't connecting at the moment.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

They are together, of course, so is it ok for her to have acv also? How much do I use?


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Following:ZZZ:

Good luck!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

My girls all get a "glug" of acv in their water buckets. It's healthy for everyone!


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Ok! I actually drink it myself


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> No problem
> There are many ways to prevent UC in wethers
> - wether them late. This gives them time for the urethra to develop.
> - feed little to no grain. Wethers just don't really need grain, and if the calcium to phosphorous ratio is off, that's not good. You want the ratio to be at least 1:2, but 1:4 and up is better. You can look at the mineral contents on your feed bag and do the math.
> ...


Whoops! These ratios are backwards! Calcium to Phosphorous ratio in the entire diet should be 2:1 to 3:1 to help prevent Urinary Calculi. Higher calcium than phosphorous.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

They actually are not interested in pellets at all. I give them alfalfa hay and loose minerals. They eat the grass/weeds mostly, but always eat the alfalfa hay everyday. I took away the baking soda like someone said and will had ACC to their water. They also LOVE when I throw leave covered tree branches in  They are all bouncy and hoppy around. They do not seem to be hungry at all. Although I do leave out a little bit of pellets just in case they want to have a go at it.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Oops!  :doh: :faint:


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## PurpleToad (Feb 14, 2016)

deniseross said:


> They actually are not interested in pellets at all. I give them alfalfa hay and loose minerals. They eat the grass/weeds mostly, but always eat the alfalfa hay everyday. I took away the baking soda like someone said and will had ACC to their water. They also LOVE when I throw leave covered tree branches in  They are all bouncy and hoppy around. They do not seem to be hungry at all. Although I do leave out a little bit of pellets just in case they want to have a go at it.


Mine aren't too interested in alfalfa pellets right now. The people we bought our fainters from were feeding grain so we are slowly weaning them off of that and onto alfalfa pellets right now they get a 2:1 ratio (two small scoops of alfalfa to one grain) twice a day (we use an old whipped cream cheese container for our scoop). With alfalfa pellets OR fresh picked leaves at noon. They ALWAYS eat the alfalfa pellets last. This is in addition to whatever grass they want to eat and free choice hay and loose minerals. They get hay right now because our grass is already trying to die, same reason we forage for them around mid-day. They cleaned off the leaves they could reach so we go out and get leaves for them. Once our current bag of grain is gone they are just getting the alfalfa. Though DH doesn't think that's enough for them and is trying to insist they need grain, all three are wethers and everything I've read says "NO" but he doesn't believe me. Ugh. At least he's trying to do right by them?


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

PurpleToad said:


> Mine aren't too interested in alfalfa pellets right now. The people we bought our fainters from were feeding grain so we are slowly weaning them off of that and onto alfalfa pellets right now they get a 2:1 ratio (two small scoops of alfalfa to one grain) twice a day (we use an old whipped cream cheese container for our scoop). With alfalfa pellets OR fresh picked leaves at noon. They ALWAYS eat the alfalfa pellets last. This is in addition to whatever grass they want to eat and free choice hay and loose minerals. They get hay right now because our grass is already trying to die, same reason we forage for them around mid-day. They cleaned off the leaves they could reach so we go out and get leaves for them. Once our current bag of grain is gone they are just getting the alfalfa. Though DH doesn't think that's enough for them and is trying to insist they need grain, all three are wethers and everything I've read says "NO" but he doesn't believe me. Ugh. At least he's trying to do right by them?


I only give about a half cup of grain a day and the little girl is the one who mostly eats it. It just makes me feel better leaving a snack out I guess. Mine don't like the leaves as much as when I just got in the woods and cut down branches of trees. It seems something about the foraging part of it they like. They LOVE LOVE alfalfa hay. It is the main way I get them to come to me especially when they are running in the yard. I'm going to get some of those cubes and try them.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Feeding goats and kids is complicated!

Goats love variety!

If you haven't already found this site, it is very helpful in knowing what goats can safely eat and what not!

Stay away from cherry trees, lilacs, red maples,...
https://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

So, question. My new babes are doing well and I've read all the different opinions on feeding. I'm only giving them limited pellets (1 doe, 1 wether- almost 4 months old) and providing them with limbs of leaves to munch on with alfalfa hay. They are not eating the weeds/grass enough I don't think. Everything is growing up and I feel sort of ridiculous having to mow a goat pasture area . Should I just not give the extra stuff and force them to eat the weeds/grass? They seemed to do better before I threw in tree limbs and pellets. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

My previous post said they didn't like the pellets, etc...love it now...


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Just my opinion, but wouldn't you rather eat your favorite food than something else? Goats LOVE alfalfa, I would just cut down on it. They probably won't eat the grass much (we mow ours) but they should at least do a good job on the weeds and keep the fenceline down. Goats aren't much for grazing an area, only if that is the only thing to eat. Most people have to mow unless the area is too small for the # of animals kept.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

goatblessings said:


> Just my opinion, but wouldn't you rather eat your favorite food than something else? Goats LOVE alfalfa, I would just cut down on it. They probably won't eat the grass much (we mow ours) but they should at least do a good job on the weeds and keep the fenceline down. Goats aren't much for grazing an area, only if that is the only thing to eat. Most people have to mow unless the area is too small for the # of animals kept.


Makes sense. About how much pellets, etc is good for them though per day or should I just do mostly hay and forage? They weigh right at 30 lbs. I feed a mixture of medicated pellets, calf manna, alfalfa pellets and a few BOSS.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Considering how young they are, I wouldn't cut back much. You want to make sure they grow well. So cut the goat pasture until they are older. Not sure how big it is but 2 goats may not eat it all down anyway.


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## katherineann56 (Apr 14, 2016)

My 4 month male goat has kidney stone, he cries when he pees and only pees a little. I have been told to give him 1/2 oz of Vinegar one person says Alfalfa Hay is good then someone else says it could make it worse??? I need help!


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Would ACV help added to his water?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

It'd help to start a new post, more people would see it. I would get him to the vet ASAP.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

katherineann56 said:


> My 4 month male goat has kidney stone, he cries when he pees and only pees a little. I have been told to give him 1/2 oz of Vinegar one person says Alfalfa Hay is good then someone else says it could make it worse??? I need help!


There was a nice lady at a coop that raises goats. She told me ammonium chloride sprinkled over food about every 3 weeks. They hated it so I added some honey and they eventually ate it. It was cheap, like $6.50 for a large tub. Also, because mine was wethered young when I got him, I always use ACV in the water.
Hopefully that will help for the future. I was always big on vetting when I bred dachshunds, so I would recommend the vet for the stone until he is better. After that, you can do preventatives.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Also, even though alfalfa is so good for them, the lady also told me that you have to be careful with it and especially wethers because they can get kidney stones because it's high in calcium.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

From my understanding it's actually not the calcium it's the lack of and then it throws the whole Cah off which is 3:1. So again from my understanding, your feeding grain and then there is the pasture both high on the Ph scale. So in your case you want more alfalfa. But that's not going to do anything for him right now. Get the AC and give that to him. I've never had to deal with UC so someone is going to have to help you on how much. Sprinkling on the grain (after you get him better) won't be a bad idea but you still want that ratio to be as close as you can


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## katherineann56 (Apr 14, 2016)

Thank you to everyone for helping me. I gave him in a bottle AC 1/2 oz and also apple cider vinegar 15 ml in 30 oz bottle twice. He is back to being his self this morning and I am so happy. I will keep it up. He liked the sweet feed and that was what I was told to give him. it had a lot of corn, grains in it. Plus he was getting into the scratch for my chickens. So now I feed them away from him completely. He is not crying when he pees and I just have all of you to thank for helping me out. I was in tears a lot yesterday.


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## deniseross (Jun 10, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> From my understanding it's actually not the calcium it's the lack of and then it throws the whole Cah off which is 3:1. So again from my understanding, your feeding grain and then there is the pasture both high on the Ph scale. So in your case you want more alfalfa. But that's not going to do anything for him right now. Get the AC and give that to him. I've never had to deal with UC so someone is going to have to help you on how much. Sprinkling on the grain (after you get him better) won't be a bad idea but you still want that ratio to be as close as you can


Ok, thanks for you input. I need to do more research. Ugh. I was so not ready to have them yet. It is so much better to be super prepared for taking on a different kind of animal.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

*He is better-Tears!*



katherineann56 said:


> Thank you to everyone for helping me. I gave him in a bottle AC 1/2 oz and also apple cider vinegar 15 ml in 30 oz bottle twice. He is back to being his self this morning and I am so happy. I will keep it up. He liked the sweet feed and that was what I was told to give him. it had a lot of corn, grains in it. Plus he was getting into the scratch for my chickens. So now I feed them away from him completely. He is not crying when he pees and I just have all of you to thank for helping me out. I was in tears a lot yesterday.


AWW! So great to hear! TEARS of JOY! Well, I can have tears of nearly anything, so believe me, I KNOW TEARS! :leap::think::leap:


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