# Vet issues



## goatmom11 (Jan 28, 2013)

I am new to the world of goats and today I had something very sad happen. In September my Nubian buck somehow got into the pen with my does and impregnated my pygmy. We called a vet who told us she would be fine and just keep an eye on her because she would need a c-section. Last night, my Bonnie was having issues breathing so we called the vet and they told us to take her inside and watch her until they opened and we could bring her in first thing. We took her there and they told us she was ready to deliver this morning and whisked her back for a c-section without doing any tests or ultrasounds. They came out a little while later and told us that she was carrying twins (they had told us earlier it was a single kid) and they were under developed and didn't survive. I have been a mess all day as this was our first pregnancy and we lost our two precious little ones. I want to know if vets are supposed to do any tests or ultrasounds on the animals before taking them in right away? She was checked and was dilated but not enough to deliver, but they said the kid was ready to come out because of all the kicking it was doing. Has anyone ever had this experience before?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I'm sorry that happened. I'm kind of surprised they rushed straight to c-section; was this goat experienced vet?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It really is so hard to say when you haven't seen her physically. It would be very hard to tell things with an ultrasound because the kids would be too big to properly see things on the small screen of an ultrasound machine. A dilated cervix would be the main sign.

I guess I would wonder why they didn't try to hand stimulate the cervix to dilate more or wait a little longer but once again, it is really hard to say since we weren't physically there. 

Unfortunately, things happen. I'm so sorry you lost your twins. Is mom doing ok?


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## goatmom11 (Jan 28, 2013)

She says she is, but we will be using a different vet from now on.


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## goatmom11 (Jan 28, 2013)

Mom seems to be doing okay so far, but we will see when we get her home. I thought it seemed too early because she was only bred at the end of September and they originally told us earliest would be mid February.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

:hug: I'm so glad you still have momma. I'm sorry about the little ones. It hurts to lose them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

To me, the vet was wrong, in making her wait until they opened, any emergency, needs to be acted on right then and there. 
Breathing issues doesn't always indicate labor. Was she trying to push at all? Any discharge? Udder development?

The vet should first check for dilation and try manually, to check her. I am assuming they did, if they said, she was ready to deliver, but, if you were not in the room, while they were looking at her, to see what was done, you won't know. You do have every right to be in there, while they are checking her.

was a temp taken?

If the babies were not fully developed, she may not of been in labor, if she was not open. 
If she was closed, the c-section should not be performed, cause she is not ready.

If the babies were not fully developed, she must of started to abort them and may of not been dilated enough, so a c-section was necessary. Ultra sounds and tests could of been done but it may not of done anything to help.

I am so very sorry for your loss, wish it didn't happen this way.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I agree, breathing issues do not point towards labor, so I'm not sure why they did the c-section. I would keep a close eye on her that she is not getting pneumonia .

The kids were underdeveloped because they were not ready. If she was bred at the end of September, she would not have been due until the end of February. Kids typically don't survive if they are born sooner than 10 days before the due date.


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## goatmom11 (Jan 28, 2013)

There was discharge and her udder was hard, but there was no colostrum. She was springing, which we figured meant she was close, but not ready to deliver just yet. She said that with the dilation and all the kicking it was time to deliver so we listened because she is the doctor, never again.


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## Wlschwallenberg (Jan 4, 2013)

That vet sounds like they were not well versed in livestock at all. I am so sorry for what you have been put thru, glad to hear that mom is doing ok so far. Have the breathing issues subsided? I am wondering if she was just having issues because the babies were large and putting pressure on her lungs? It all sounds so strange, especially that the vet would do a csection a month before the babies are due.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry you are going through this.....:hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

goatmom11 said:


> There was discharge and her udder was hard, but there was no colostrum. She was springing, which we figured meant she was close, but not ready to deliver just yet. She said that with the dilation and all the kicking it was time to deliver so we listened because she is the doctor, never again.


 Goats can discharge a month or so prior to kidding. This is normal.
When kids are kicking , it just means, they are alive and healthy, it doesn't mean, they are ready to come out, we can't go by that.

You say, her udder is hard with nothing coming out. Hard you mean firm or feels like a rock? She may have a congested udder or mastitis and needs to be treated, she will need to be milked. You will need to watch that.
Also know, the teats have teat plugs, which have to come out of the ends, we have to work on some a bit more, to start the milk flow. Gently scrape( don't get rough) or dig hard, the end of the teat(orifice) gently and squeeze the teat, to try to get the milk to flow.. It may just be that , as to why no milk is coming out.

If you do not want milk, she will have to be dried up. And need relieved, if she gets to tight,. But you will need to find out why there is no milk coming out. If she has mastitis, she will need treatment.

Springing, can you explain what that means?

What a terrible experience, no matter how you look at it. I would try to find a vet that knows about goats, it just seems, that this one did not. We put all our faith and trust in these vets, but not knowing, they never had any schooling to treat goats. It is sad.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

sorry to hear about your loss.
without being there you'll never know exactly what all happened.

I always go with the goats but that's up to my vet. I have a good teaching relationship with my goat vet. Sometimes I feel sorry for her ... :laugh:

Just putting this out there --- I always have Lute on hand because I've heard that if you need to hand stimulate the cervix to do it with gel mixed with lute. That the lute will help open the cervix.

I asked my vet about this and she just looked at me like I was crazy but I've heard it from a few large breeders and when the time comes ... I'm goin to try everything possible.

:grouphug:


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Usually when the kids are ready, they stop kicking as they move in to position. If she had the kids too early she probably won't come in to milk.

Springing is a cattle term, usually used when the cow (or goat) is starting to get a puffy, loose vulva and they may start looking a lot wider, or dropping.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the info on springing ptgoats


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

sorry but I have to say dont be too quick to jump down the vets throat here. 

not all vets do emergency out of hours care, and I know many who will tell the person to bring them in first thing simply because most people will not pay the after hours call. It is expensive and so many people dont pay it. we have to remember that vets are in business and as much as we and they would like to, they cannot provide their services for nothing. 

you dont know what examinations the vet did since the doe was taken to an exam room and you didnt go with them. I always go with my animals to watch and give my opinion or ask questions. I am guessing that the vet did an internal exam and determined that the doe was kidding/aborting and not dilated enough. Dilation refers to the cervix, not the vulva. Its not unusual for dilation to be inadequate if the animal is aborting. 

When it comes down to it, I'm guessing they did the c-section instead of waiting and giving mum more time because of the distress and breathing difficulties. Im guessing she was already stressed and trying to get those kids out naturally would have increased the stress on her. 

I'm sorry you lost the kids, focus on getting your doe through this now. 

Also might be worth a thought, keeping lute on hand to abort any mismatings in the future rather than leaving them go.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I know, there are those few vets out there, that know how to care for goats, however, I know of many cases, where the vet, did not treat a goat in a proper manner, ending in bad outcomes. Not all, can be trusted and it is a hard call on which ones to trust, if you do not know, what kind of knowledge they have with goats. 

I myself, have a good vet, that does have after hours, on call emergency services. I have used it in the past and have paid a lot for the service, the problem was too much for me to handle by myself. I am not chopping all vets, but ,we have to be aware, that there are those out there, that just guess on how to treat and misdiagnose. 

In this situation, the vet was aware of the problem and said to wait, until they open up office, in the morning, that to me, is not a good vet. They should do their job then and there, the goat was having issues. It may of cost more, but that animal was in need, causing even more hours of stress. I agree, that vets shouldn't do services for free and they don't, none of them do. Some, I believe even over charge.


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## goatmom11 (Jan 28, 2013)

I just want to update on momma. She is doing good so far and being her same loving self. I was worried about the stress of going through all of that, but she's always been little Miss Resilient! Thank you everyone for the kind words, we are healing together


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am not going to go on about the vet. I can see both sides, but I will say I am really right there with Pam.

Anyway. I am glad to hear mom is doing well. What did they give you to give to her? Did they give you banamine for pain? Anything to prevent a infection? make sure she eats, and is drinking. Give her fresh water and a water with either Molasses or a electrolyte.

Spoil that mamma and give her lots of kisses.

I am sorry for your loss.

Do you know how much experience this vet has with goats? Are there other goat people you can ask them who they use. 

I am just glad mo is ok and by the way make sure you understand that you did everything right. :grouphug:


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## bgr09 (Dec 30, 2012)

This happend to me a year ago my boer buck bred my pet pygmy bernise who's mother I bought bred (my first goats) and she had bernise in 2009 then I sold the pygmys except bernise since she was my first baby and she got bred and the vet said keep an eye one her but then one day we were going to be out of the state for a few days and knew she was close so we took her there and they did c section and said they were a day to early. I was bummed but the vets I have (3) of them are great they came out and 1 in the morning to do a c section on one of my registered does.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad the Momma is doing good. 
I agree with Lori. Did the vet give her banamine or antibiotics or anything at all?


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