# Dangerous dogs



## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

My uncle has these two pit gsd crosses. (I have nothing against the breeds this isn't about that please no breed bashing here)
Well he likes to run them offleash occasionally like a idiot. He doesn't do much with these dogs just puts them in a pen outside they never come in. Most he does is feed them. He doesn't vet them.
These dogs are agressive they've tried to attack my mother and grandmothers dog and while I was getting the female off my mothers dog she snapped at me and tried to bite me. ( I swiftly kicked her in the face with steel toe boots and she ran off).
Well today my idiot uncle took them out for a 'walk' and they ran right up to my goat pen snarling and growling at them. My dad got the gun and went out there and told my uncle he was going to shoot them.
I myself have a small crossbow since I dont have a gun license and plan to kill them if they even touch the dirt inside my goats pen.

My boys were shaking and terrified they ran into the brambles in their pen and it took forever to get them out of there. I fed them some treats and got them calmed down but.
I really dont want to wait until they hurt or kill something before taking action. Has anyone dealt with this before? Can anything be done?
I can not get a herd guardian dog we already have two dogs and cant afford another.
My uncle is a IDIOT and we've told him before not to run those dogs but he doesn't listen.
Need advice here. :-?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

One thing is, you CAN NOT kill the dogs, UNLESS you have proof or you witness the dogs attack your animals. I would start locking up the goats in a secure shelter at night, you might try putting electric wire along the bottom of the fence, and barbed wire along the top. I know how aggressive pit bulls are, believe me!


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

I know I cant shoot them unless they get in and attack. But I assume if they're in my pen they're attacking and because I live in a rural livestock community I know the legal system would side with me if I killed the dogs on my property in my pen. (These dogs are MEAN especially the male.)
We're moving their pen to where our new barn is soon, I will for sure talk to my dad about putting a hot wire down around the edge thats a really good idea.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Its not the dogs fault your Uncle is neglectful, at the least maybe get a bullhorn and SOund that thing off next time they come near-- just give the dogs a clue that that area is a No go, dont get me wrong you should NOT have to worry about your goats, but try deterrence first....
Or spray them with a power hose, they wont like that either....


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

I am gonna throw out my pitbull encounter here, so here it goes

This year we brought two baby goats to our town parade. There was this dog without a leash, as we came around the curb, here comes this pit bull GROWLING at the goat, I scoop up the goat, gave the dog a swift kick, and the owners were screaming "He won't hurt them!" and the dog is running at my goat growling, now I am wary of any pit bull. So I know what those dogs will do to your animals


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

CAjerseychick said:


> Its not the dogs fault your Uncle is neglectful, at the least maybe get a bullhorn and SOund that thing off next time they come near-- just give the dogs a clue that that area is a No go, dont get me wrong you should NOT have to worry about your goats, but try deterrence first....
> Or spray them with a power hose, they wont like that either....


We've tried things in the past like popping them with bbs to get them out of the yard and it doesn't work.
Have you ever been around a truely aggressive dog? No it's not their fault but I'll protect my animals and myself if they come on my property. These dogs have already tried to kill other animals and tried to attack me, I dont have a power hose and even if I did it wouldn't reach the pen.
I'm not going to buy something to train someone elses animal when that money can go towards my own, life is cruel, and it's sad, but these dogs are a menace to everyone who lives near them. We plan to grow our 'farm' and I dont need them coming around scaring the heck out of my animals or digging into the pen and killing them. Which they were hell bent on doing today when I came out and found them there snarling growling and snapping at my goats through the fence.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

It's not the breed, it's the *&%# owners who allow them to run willy nilly around other animals. A GOOD owner would understand that pit type dogs have a higher prey drive than normal and would take measures to prevent an incident. It is NOT the breed or even the individual dog's fault that the owner can't be bothered to practice responsible animal ownership.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

fishin816 said:


> I am gonna throw out my pitbull encounter here, so here it goes
> 
> This year we brought two baby goats to our town parade. There was this dog without a leash, as we came around the curb, here comes this pit bull GROWLING at the goat, I scoop up the goat, gave the dog a swift kick, and the owners were screaming "He won't hurt them!" and the dog is running at my goat growling, now I am wary of any pit bull. So I know what those dogs will do to your animals


Yeah it's understandable to be afraid of them by association but I've met many nice pitbulls. Just people who dont know anything about training dogs get ahold of them and turn them into monsters.
Any dog breed can be aggressive and any breed can be nice just depends on how they're raised.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Talron said:


> Yeah it's understandable to be afraid of them by association but I've met many nice pitbulls. Just people who dont know anything about training dogs get ahold of them and turn them into monsters.
> Any dog breed can be aggressive and any breed can be nice just depends on how they're raised.


I know any dog can be agressive, just because of my horrible encounter with the pitbull at the parade, I still stay away from them


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

fishin816 said:


> I know any dog can be agressive, just because of my horrible encounter with the pitbull at the parade, I still stay away from them


Yeah I totally understand and wont say you're wrong for being afraid.
I was attacked by a chow chow when I was a baby and I still feel a bit nervous around chow looking dogs even though I know it was just that dog.
I just wanted to make sure you knew it's the owners fault cause it's sad pits end up in the wrong hands so often.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Does the uncle actually live on your property...as in is it the same property owned by one person with several different families living there? If it is YOUR property and not his, warn him that if they come onto YOUR property again you will shoot to kill. If he is living in a house on property, tell him they have to go...NOW. You absolutely have a right to protect yourself and your animals from an aggressive dog. Regardless of who owns it. (or what breed it is...I've known an aggressive dacshund before) It is always harder to handle this kind of thing when it's family. Good luck and I hope you can get it stopped before your animals or you get hurt by these dogs.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Talron said:


> Yeah I totally understand and wont say you're wrong for being afraid.
> I was attacked by a chow chow when I was a baby and I still feel a bit nervous around chow looking dogs even though I know it was just that dog.
> I just wanted to make sure you knew it's the owners fault cause it's sad pits end up in the wrong hands so often.


Yeah I know it was the owners, that dog wouldn't have tried to attack Miss Priss if the owners one, HAD IT ON A LEASH, and two, didnt teach it to be agressive,


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You all are probably gonna call me heartless and that fine.....first not every where you have to wait till the dog attacks to shoot. I spoke to a man years ago and can't remember where he was from but the law was if they even make livestock lift there head from grazing you have the right to shoot. Yes I hate pit bulls so will try not to bash but I watched a show about them and the main problem with the breed is when they get it in their mind to kill....its like nothing else will get threw to them. 
Now these are your animals....by taking these animals in you basically made a promise to protect them. I'm not going to tell you what to do but there is a saying shoot shovel and shut up and I believe in that saying.....and to be honest I probably would have shot the dog right there for snapping at me. No its not the dogs fault but they are harmful to not only your animals but to you too.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

kccjer said:


> Does the uncle actually live on your property...as in is it the same property owned by one person with several different families living there? If it is YOUR property and not his, warn him that if they come onto YOUR property again you will shoot to kill. If he is living in a house on property, tell him they have to go...NOW. You absolutely have a right to protect yourself and your animals from an aggressive dog. Regardless of who owns it. (or what breed it is...I've known an aggressive dacshund before) It is always harder to handle this kind of thing when it's family. Good luck and I hope you can get it stopped before your animals or you get hurt by these dogs.


He doesn't live on our property he lives over a acre away. My Grandmother lives on the property between us. My dad had a talk with him about the dogs today when he had them out and we've told him before not to bring them around. Dad told him this time that we'd shoot them so maybe he'll keep them away. But knowing him he wont. Thank you for your input I have a feeling I'll end up having to kill these dogs it's sad my uncle is such a moron.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> You all are probably gonna call me heartless and that fine.....first not every where you have to wait till the dog attacks to shoot. I spoke to a man years ago and can't remember where he was from but the law was if they even make livestock lift there head from grazing you have the right to shoot. Yes I hate pit bulls so will try not to bash but I watched a show about them and the main problem with the breed is when they get it in their mind to kill....its like nothing else will get threw to them.
> Now these are your animals....by taking these animals in you basically made a promise to protect them. I'm not going to tell you what to do but there is a saying shoot shovel and shut up and I believe in that saying.....and to be honest I probably would have shot the dog right there for snapping at me. No its not the dogs fault but they are harmful to not only your animals but to you too.


I guess I need to call my sheriffs department and ask about my county laws on aggressive dogs. I dont think you're heartless. I put my animals saftey above even my own. (Hence why I went in when they attacked my mothers dog) I've heard and seen how dogs always come back once they know theres 'toys' to kill. I cant just shoot them and dispose of them though because we live so close he would hear the shots or yelps or whatever.
I'd rather handle this before anyone has to die but today just made me realize the problem is getting worse.
Maybe I can get the animals taken away. I dont really have any 'proof' they did this but maybe they could be evaluated by animal control.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. It's hard and made harder because it could be avoided. I've been in your shoes (although not with family, but neighbors) and it is never easy. I agree with Jessica...shoot, shovel, shut up. And I would do it if I even see these dogs near my property. It's too bad when we are forced to do something so abhorrent to us by other peoples neglect or indifference.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

A Labrador retriever will chase a ball for hours at time .... That is bred in to them u can not make that instinct go away and near impossible controll it . Some are born with out this trait but not a lot . 
It is the same thing with pits. But it is kill not the chase it's the kill. Not all are that way but IMO most are ... My cousin has one that is the sweetest thing you would ever meet, gentile kind loves people... KILLS small animals no matter what he has tryed so the dog stays home and is kept confined to their property ... As he should be! He will never own another pit even though he loves his dog!

I guess what I am saying is most dogs are bred for a purpose ... Hundreds of years of breeding for a trait can not simply be trained out of a dog .... It is not that simple it is a much deeper seated issue


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

You call your local animal control. They will find the dogs, take them away, and have them put down. That sounds like a good idea to me


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Jessica84 said:


> You all are probably gonna call me heartless and that fine.....first not every where you have to wait till the dog attacks to shoot. I spoke to a man years ago and can't remember where he was from but the law was if they even make livestock lift there head from grazing you have the right to shoot. Yes I hate pit bulls so will try not to bash but I watched a show about them and the main problem with the breed is when they get it in their mind to kill....its like nothing else will get threw to them.
> Now these are your animals....by taking these animals in you basically made a promise to protect them. I'm not going to tell you what to do but there is a saying shoot shovel and shut up and I believe in that saying.....and to be honest I probably would have shot the dog right there for snapping at me. No its not the dogs fault but they are harmful to not only your animals but to you too.


The show was misinformed then. It is 100% up to the individual dog's personality as to whether or not they will respond to their owner when they become aggressive. It is not breed specific, it is not type specific, it is solely that ONE dog's personality and training. I've known people who trained chicken killers to avoid chickens, I've known people who use pit bulls as LGDs and have never lost a single goat. ANY source that chooses to see an animal by it's breed, be it "hot-headed" Arabians, "psycho killer" pit bulls or "dumb as bricks" sheep, is an irresponsible source that is either aiming for ratings or truly stupid.

Now, with that being said, it's perfectly OK to not like pit bulls (it's not technically a breed, but whatever). I don't particularly like any dogs, I've lost too many goats to them and there really isn't a breed I'm fond of in the least (lab and lab mixes have killed more of my goats than any other breed, btw). However, I would hope that people start to realize that animals do indeed have individual personalities and that they should be judged on that, not by their looks. If that means planting a bullet in them for being aggressive little snots, do it. Gods know I have plenty of times.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

fishin816 said:


> You call your local animal control. They will find the dogs, take them away, and have them put down. That sounds like a good idea to me


Not necessarily. Three dogs came onto my property a year ago and killed two goats. The county took them but said the wouldn't euthanize them without another incident.

You should call your local police and ask them what your rights are. Here, I have the right to shoot and kill any animal I feel is a danger to my stock.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

ciwheeles said:


> Not necessarily. Three dogs came onto my property a year ago and killed two goats. The county took them but said the wouldn't euthanize them without another incident.
> 
> You should call your local police and ask them what your rights are. Here, I have the right to shoot and kill any animal I feel is a danger to my stock.


Oh well they have done that around here a few times


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## Hodgson (Jan 7, 2014)

Sounds like a very unfortunate situation. Chances are that once these dogs are gone, your uncle will get more. Hopefully with less prey drive. 
Definitely check out the laws where you live. Here, we can kill ANY animal, wild or domestics, that causes undue stress on livestock. Dogs lunging and snapping through the fence definitely is stressful on your goats. I'd shoot them. Hard when it's family, no one wants a feud and it sounds like your family lives in close proximity to each other.
Electric wire would work very well I'm sure. No animal likes to get zapped. It would keep these dogs out, plus any other dogs that discover tasty chew toys live there. It would be well worth the investment.


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

Your uncles dogs would have been shot when it tried to bite me. Everyone knows around here that if you want your dog to stay alive it better stay on your place. Same goes for my dogs if they leave my land they are free game. Around here we have zero tolerance for pit bulls. I have yet to meet one that isn't aggressive, but I feel that around here ppl make their pits mean an they bre for that. So I don't blame the pits but they still have to be dealt along with any dog that I don't know.


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## Sleppler (Feb 11, 2014)

Are you outside the jurisdiction of your local animal control? If not, they should be able to issue a warning citation since the dogs have been off leash, on your property and threatening your animals. After that, if the dogs come onto your property again animal control should be able to step in.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Talron said:


> We've tried things in the past like popping them with bbs to get them out of the yard and it doesn't work.
> Have you ever been around a truely aggressive dog? No it's not their fault but I'll protect my animals and myself if they come on my property.


Actually yes-- back when we lived in the city the downstairs neighbors had a Bandog (pitt/mastiff cross) and ever since he bit my sweety pie Boxer gal, she hated him, one time we were in the back hallway going out to the garden when the dog came in-- there we were, stuck in the middle of the hallway-- dogs flew at each other, she kept him offa me (he is like 95lbs she was only75)-- and DH had forgotten to change the light bulbs and it was pitch black too (we were making a dash through the hallway)....

So yes, have had lots of dog experience, my other boxer/ as well as first dog were dog aggressive so I have had to break up a fair amount of fights....
Its just sad, dogs need training and structure and its their nature to kill things, mostly, without training...

you can go ahead and kill those dogs, but whats the likelihood he wont just go out and get more?

We have a crew of family pet dogs, but at 80,130, and 90lbs (the puppy) they serve as protection, farm guards as well...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

First, I would go secure your fencing. Tighten it up, make sure there aren't any easy places to go under, over, or through. If you can afford it, put electric wire along the top and bottom of the fence.

Next time the dogs are loose, either try contacting animal control or shoot them. If I had two loose dogs on my property bothering my goats, they would be two dead dogs in a hurry. If you can't do that, then have your dad do it. Dispose of the dogs, don't tell the uncle...to avoid conflict. 

Good luck...sounds like a frustrating situation. Makes it even worse when it's a family member causing issues.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

In my opinion the dogs have already proven themselves dangerous because they attacked your grandmother's dogs and tried to attack you. In my mind that right there was enough to have them put down. If you were to file a complaint that the dog bit you then it most likely would be taken and put down. I think you are in your rights to shoot them if they come on your property again, even before they make it to the dirt of your goat pen.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You know I've been thinking.....call the animal control and tell them what's going on. DONT tell them about your dad saying he will shoot them if they step foot on your place. Any ways depending on rules maybe they can swing by and if lucky see that they are mean and put them down......you can hope. But also keep in mind that some things you do might cause issues with him


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am so sorry you are going through this  That's a tough one for sure...is there any way to talk to your uncle and maybe let him see how bad it affects the goats when the dogs are around? Here is my experience...
I know it is the individual dog, however the dog that tried to kill my goat was a pit as well.The kids and I were walking the goats down our country road. I was not aware my neighbor had a new dog. The dog came flying out from his house,ran across the road and took my goat by the throat.It took 4 (Four!) people smacking and kicking him to get him to let go. Of course,two of those were my kids and the owner himself ended up punching the dog in the head to make him let go.The goat ran off with 4 puncture wounds.We had to treat her wounds and give her a round of PenG and it took her HOURS to stop shaking To this day she is PETRIFIED of dogs.If you have never witnessed a dog having one of your animals down by the throat and watching them struggle to breathe, and feeling powerless to stop it....you cannot imagine how scary it is.
After that incident,the dog was put down (owners idea). He said he didn't want a dog he had to worry about like that and he should have known better than to get a rescued pitbull.He bought me a bag of dairy goat feed and apologized for the dog getting out through the screen door.He said he hoped I would continue walking my goats and letting them browse but I don't now. He opted for a Min Pin after that


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

I have always wondered on a situation like that why people don't go for the eyes..... Or if it would even work? It makes sence In my mind that if you shove a finger through they're eye that might get them to let go. I don't know just typin out loud


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

We were punching him in the face,head,eyes,kicking him too. He was on a killing mission.He had nothing else on his mind.Had I thought of it, I would have...but I hate inflicting harm like that


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Don't rely heavily on electric fencing to stop these dogs. I have a pit bull mix that totally ignores the electric fence if she wants out. She hasn't gone over after anyone or any animal yet but will go after her ball

Carmen, Oleo Acres LLC, NW Ks


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

What a horrible situation your in  I hate to think a family member would have such blatant disregard for you feelings and property .
I would go by the law ( first ) .See what can be done to bring hefty fines your Uncle's way . Are the dogs licensed ? What are your towns rules of dog ownership ? Is your Uncle following them ?I would make it such a hardship for him to even have dogs. Maybe then he will decide its no fun owning dogs. IMO he shouldn't have one since he is so irresponsible with them. He isn't doing them any favors anyways.
If that route doesn't work , call the humane society or anyone else that could possibly be of any help to you . If that fails , shoot , shovel , shut up. Do find out what your towns rules are of dog ownership . You may not even have to worry anymore , the powers that be may step in and save you from the drama of to all. They may fine your Uncle , take the dogs and ban him from having another one. One can only hope.
Good luck to you and your animals.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

Apparently the dangerous dog laws here are if they attack anything the owner is fined and they are registered as vicious and dangerous, if they kill a animal or person they are to be put down and anyone can kill the dog.
I called my sheriffs office and they said I could shoot the dog if I felt like I was in danger so theres that.

I talked to my uncle told him the situation and he said sorry and that he didn't know his dogs would act like that. (looonnggg sigh)
I'm hoping he's going to keep them out of our yard but if not I'm going to call animal control and they'll evaluate the dogs and put them down if necessary. I want to give my uncle one last chance to avoid conflict.

I know he can always just get more dogs. But his daughter has said she wants a small dog for in the house next so atleast it wouldn't be as big of a issue.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm also putting down hot wire. I dont know if it'll work on them but seems like a good idea to have anyways.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Get some pepper spray and spray the dogs in the face if they get near the pen. That is a great deterrent. Might work on your uncle too. Especially if he has to deal with dogs who have been sprayed. Second hand spray is just as annoying as first hand. Papper spray is non-lethal but works really well.

Just make sure you know which way the wind is blowing and the nozzle is pointing.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

What is the update on the dogs? Have they been back any at all?


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