# How old is too Old to remove horns?



## ASTONs Dairy

I know that kids are usually dis budded somewhere between day 1 & 10, but can a yearling be dis-budded successfully? 

What would you all do if the goats horns are deformed and growing into the top of his head?

Cut them back or remove the horn completely? Something else?

I apologize if this question has been asked and answered just point be to the thread. I have a hard time with the search and it takes hours.

Thanks for the help


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## ksalvagno

At that point, I would band them. If you do a search, there have been some threads about banding.

I banded an adult female and was very glad that I did it.


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## Broski1984

You can't disbud them anymore. A vet can surgically dehorn them but it's a pretty major surgery. You can supposedly saw a niche in the horn, and put a banding band around that and wrap it in tape - it'll fall off. Never done it, not sure if it works.

You could just trim the horns. That's what I'd do.


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## Pixie13

Ksalvango, wow I didn't know that you could use a bander to disbud. I am new to go goats though, and there is alot I do not know yet. I have just always heard horrer stories about dehorning an older goat. I have an 8 month old lamancha that was never dehorned as a young doeling. I just recently purchased her. Her horns stick straight out, with no curving. I wonder if she would be a candidate for banding. HUM:think:


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## BlueEyedFainters

Sorry to butt in on your thread, but have wondered this and am curious. If you de-horn by way of banding, do the horns continue to grow and therefore return, which would require banding again down the road?


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## BCG

BlueEyedFainters said:


> Sorry to butt in on your thread, but have wondered this and am curious. If you de-horn by way of banding, do the horns continue to grow and therefore return, which would require banding again down the road?


Good question.... I would like to know the answer to that question too.


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## ksalvagno

My doe is 5 or 6 years old. I banded her last year. I used this method to do it: http://goat-info.com/removing horns adult.htm This is Kate Helms website from Helmstead Minis.

My girl's horns were very mature. It took over 8 months for them to come off. But they died and there is no regrowth There are no holes or anything. Her head is not sensitive or anything.


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## BlueEyedFainters

ksalvagno said:


> My doe is 5 or 6 years old. I banded her last year. I used this method to do it: http://goat-info.com/removing%20horns%20adult.htm This is Kate Helms website from Helmstead Minis.
> 
> My girl's horns were very mature. It took over 8 months for them to come off. But they died and there is no regrowth There are no holes or anything. Her head is not sensitive or anything.


Thanks.. She also says in the end of the article that they do grow back, just very very slowly. I guess it's a goat by goat case!


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## Goat Mom

We have a wether whose disbudding was done very poorly. He has one horn that grows normally, and one that curves back into his head. We left the healthy one, and we have trimmed an inch or so off of the curved one twice. It hasn't been too much of a problem.


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## Axykatt

I'm gonna be that pain in the butt and correct yer terminology:

Disbudding involves the removal of horn-producing cells. At this stage, horn buds are still free-floating and not yet attached to the frontal bone of the skull.Disbudding by caustic paste or hot-iron destroys horn-producing cells in the horn bud. 

Dehorning involves cutting out horns and horn-producing tissue after they have formed from the horn bud and attached to the skull.

A yearling would need dehorning, as opposed to a week old kid, who would need disbudding.


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## Terra Mia

We had read about success with banding so we banded a scur on our doe's head that was starting to turn towards her head. It has been about 2 months. I will NEVER band again. My poor doe is in pain and she screams if I even bonk her horn which I think is loose but hasn't fallen off yet. She does not get too close to the feeder or the other goats because of her horn and the risk it will get bonked. She used to be the herd queen and now she just stands around looking miserable. We are very hands on with our goats and so I think that if banded goats are just out in the field with their herd this might not be noticed but we can tell she is uncomfortable because of the personality change. I hope it falls off soon. Lesson learned....


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## Pixie13

dlnicholson126, I just wanted to say that I didn't mean to butt in on your post. Sorry about that. I too have had questions about dehorning an older goat. My uncle used to own sheep, and brought up to me that he banded sheep horns very successfully in the past. When some of the other members brought up banding, I couldn't help but chime in. Everyone's comments are very interesting. You can learn a whole lot from other people's experiences. My Lamancha/Nubian cross doe is going on 9 months old, and sports a dangerous pair of horns. I do not want to do anything to cause her pain. Unfortunately, she likes to run right between my legs and stop when I am bringing her her feed Her is a pic of her horns.


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## ksalvagno

The female that I banded was friendly before and was friendly after banding. I milk her twice a day and she never missed a beat. I think it is important to have the Banamine on hand and give Banamine when needed. While I have no intentions of buying a horned goat again, I will never say never. That being said, I would band horns again since horned goats don't work on my farm.


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## Terra Mia

Whooo hoo!!! Funny thing...her horn fell off today!! I am soooo happy.

I have banamine but wondered what the effects would be if I gave it to her everyday. So I did give her some when she was really miserable but didn't feel it was ok to give it to her for weeks on end. I wonder if banding a scur hurts worse than banding a horn. I do feel bad and would have left the scur on if it wasn't for the fact it was curling towards her scull and resting near her eye. 

Maybe it depends on the goat. My experiences with disbudding this year was odd. My first doe to get disbudded threw a complete fit and acted like she was in pain afterwards and moped for a couple of days. All the rest went out without a hitch and they screamed more when I shaved their heads than when I actually disbudded them.


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## ksalvagno

I never do more than 3 days in a row of Banamine. The most I had to do for my girl was 2 days in a row. I changed her bands monthly so every month she got one or two shots of Banamine. Otherwise she was fine.

What you could probably try is B-L Solution for that instance. I have used that for pain when it was longer term. I currently use it for 2 of my dogs.


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## Pixie13

Thinking I might conjure up the nerve to band her horns. I will see if someone who has experience with it might help me. Pepper's horns are just too dangerous. Don't want any person or animal getting hurt. Hopefully it will not be a terrible experience for her. It seems like several of you have had great success with it


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## ASTONs Dairy

Pixie13 said:


> dlnicholson126, I just wanted to say that I didn't mean to butt in on your post. Sorry about that. I too have had questions about dehorning an older goat. My uncle used to own sheep, and brought up to me that he banded sheep horns very successfully in the past. When some of the other members brought up banding, I couldn't help but chime in. Everyone's comments are very interesting. You can learn a whole lot from other people's experiences. My Lamancha/Nubian cross doe is going on 9 months old, and sports a dangerous pair of horns. I do not want to do anything to cause her pain. Unfortunately, she likes to run right between my legs and stop when I am bringing her her feed Her is a pic of her horns.


I don't mind at all, because your question is a extension of mine. It is good that we talk about this and get many responses and questions. Horns can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the personality of the goat. At times there may be a need to de-horn a goat for safety and we all should know the correct way to do it.


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## ASTONs Dairy

I would like to hear more stories about your dehorning experiences, both successful and not so successful


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## WarPony

Pixie13 said:


> I have an 8 month old lamancha that was never dehorned as a young doeling. I just recently purchased her. Her horns stick straight out, with no curving. I wonder if she would be a candidate for banding. HUM:think:


I did two of them (both LaMancha crosses, actually) at about this age, their horns came off at 3 and 4 weeks, respectively, and 9 months later the doeling I still have here that was banded has a beautiful smooth head with no regrowth.



BlueEyedFainters said:


> Sorry to butt in on your thread, but have wondered this and am curious. If you de-horn by way of banding, do the horns continue to grow and therefore return, which would require banding again down the road?


If you band them properly they do not grow back. Look for recent threads on banding and I have posted pictures of the ones i have done.

The doe who just shed her horns was 6 or 7. It took 3 months. She was sore for the first 24 hours after banding, and about 4 days before the horns shed. She never cried or fussed, just made faces. She is still obnoxiously bossy to all the other goats.

The first goat I banded horns on was a complete fruit loop before banding. She was dangerous not from meanness but being so flighty. Her horns were tender if they were bumped, so she started to slow down and think about what she was doing before she did it. By the time her horns came off she had settled significantly and is now the sweetest most affectionate goat ever. I used to call her Psychoti-goat. Now she is a total lap goat. i think it didn't hurt her personality that I was so worried about her that i spent extra time with her every day apologising to her for putting the bands on. lol.


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## WarPony

Here is the link to the thread where I posted pictures: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f217/banding-horns-141848/


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## ASTONs Dairy

I have read the article on banding. If I choose to do this, what type of bands are used? Are they the same ones I would use to castrate?


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## ksalvagno

Yes, I just used the green bands. There was someone on here that used the tri-bands though and felt they had better success with them.


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## WarPony

yes, same bands you use to castrate. The thing with the tri bander bands is that they are flat sided so they don't roll once you place them like the regular bands. I didn't have them yet when I banded mine, so I had to use something to cut notches in the side of the horns and make sure the first band went in the notch, then put more bands below those. I think with the tri bander bands i can put that on first then use regular bands below that. But i haven't tried that yet so no promises on how well it will work.


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## BCG

Has anyone tried putting some duct tape over the bands to keep them in place?


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## ASTONs Dairy

ok I know what the green band look like, but what are the tri-bands and/or where would I find them. Also there is a question about duck tape around the bands to keep them in Place?


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## WarPony

The tri-bander bands can be bought at Jeffers: http://www.jefferspet.com/tri-band-bander/camid/liv/cp/0027115/ you do not need the tri bander tool to use them. The best way to describe them is that they are like a donut with flat sides instead of a donut with rounded sides. ( http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/images/Product/large/11401594.jpg )

The duct tape is really just to keep them covered to the goat can't rub them off. It doesn't really keep them from rolling up the horn very well, not like filing/cutting a notch or using the bands that won't roll does.You can wrap a layer of tape around the horn and put the band below it but when I tried that it just made a mess because the tape kept sticking to her, the horns, itself... trying to wrap the horn in it neatly enough that it would work properly was a pain. You might have better luck, especially if you have a helper, but it was nto effective for me while working by myself.


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## BCG

How low does the band have to be? I'm having trouble getting them to the base of scurs on a wether I bought. Lowest I can get them is about half inch up because of the odd shape of the scurs and being so close to the back of his head.


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## WarPony

BCG said:


> How low does the band have to be? I'm having trouble getting them to the base of scurs on a wether I bought. Lowest I can get them is about half inch up because of the odd shape of the scurs and being so close to the back of his head.


It has to be around the area the horn tissue is growing out of, otherwise it doesn't remove the source of the horn and it will grow back. But if it is low enough in back if you are lucky it may remove some from back there and when it regrows it my grow in a way that allows you to get the rest of it.


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## ASTONs Dairy

What type of tool do I need to trim horns?


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## smshooter515

dlnicholson126 said:


> I would like to hear more stories about your dehorning experiences, both successful and not so successful


In a different herd of goats I bought several older goats with horns and dehorned them because they were all sold as milkers and pets. Ive done them as long as 3 or 4 inches. Like i said in another post its not fun and can be scary. Dont do it if you have never done it before have a vet do it if it has to be done. Or someone experienced. I cut really deep and burn it really really good. Then a deep X across the top so i get no scurs. They are fine the next day. But you have to be careful of flys laying eggs. There will be a deep hole down to the sinuses. I hate doing it and only do it if i have to. I always do them as babies if i raise them. I have never had any complications either way. But it is a risk!

Heres what i use when i have to cut long horns









Heres what i use to burn it with after i cut them


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## Vickir73

*just banded my girl*

just banded Angie a week ago this past Saturday. She is a 2 mo old LaMancha and her horns were already about 3 inches. I used the green castrating bands (I didn't cut a notch - I need to find out how to do that) and then used duct tape to keep it in place. She lost the 1st horn a few days ago and it appeared last night that the other one was getting ready to fall off. I'll take pics this weekend and try to post them. I'm not sure if it's down far enough, maybe y'all can tell me once you see the pics.


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## ASTONs Dairy

smshooter515 said:


> In a different herd of goats I bought several older goats with horns and dehorned them because they were all sold as milkers and pets. Ive done them as long as 3 or 4 inches. Like i said in another post its not fun and can be scary. Dont do it if you have never done it before have a vet do it if it has to be done. Or someone experienced. I cut really deep and burn it really really good. Then a deep X across the top so i get no scurs. They are fine the next day. But you have to be careful of flys laying eggs. There will be a deep hole down to the sinuses. I hate doing it and only do it if i have to. I always do them as babies if i raise them. I have never had any complications either way. But it is a risk!
> 
> Heres what i use when i have to cut long horns
> 
> View attachment 20437
> 
> 
> Heres what i use to burn it with after i cut them
> 
> View attachment 20439


smshooter515 Thank you for posting the pics. What is the name of the tool you use to cut the horn. I only want to take off about and inch, or tip it


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## smshooter515

For that i just use my husbands nippers he uses to trim horses, he's a farrier. Start by taking very little off at a time and keep going little by little so they dont bleed. Ive heard of people using a hand saw also but ive never done that.


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## ASTONs Dairy

I have a hand saw but don't know if its sharp enough. Have a chain saw too guess I could try that NOT jk. I have a friend who has a pair of horse hoof nippers if I need to I can barrow his in a pinch


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## ASTONs Dairy

Anyone else want to share information about the tools you use to tip horns.


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## Vickir73

We banded Angie when she was 2 months old. It took about 2 weeks for them to fall off. I will try to take some pics of what she looks like this weekend (3 months old). Any feedback on if y'all think her horns will grow back? I was told this weekend I could go ahead and burn them and that would prevent them from coming back - I need to purchase an iron.


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## ASTONs Dairy

Update on the horn removal. Vet came out today and removed Toupee's horns. Will take some Pics tomorrow when I change his bandage.


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## ASTONs Dairy

Picture of horns removed


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## erica4481

dlnicholson126 said:


> Picture of horns removed


Do u have your goat for sale on Craig's list? Your profile pic.


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## .:Linz:.

I was just thinking I'm regretting banding my girls' horns since both of them have fevers now, and that maybe I should have had a vet do it instead. But after seeing that... I think I'm glad I banded! Even though I don't ever want to have to do that again either.

I'm sure the vet did a great job but I don't think I, personally, could handle seeing it open like that while waiting for it to heal.


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## kezhy

I have recently banded my Nubian x saneen, 8 mth old doeling. I bought her mother with her at foot, when she was 2 months old. She had 2 inch horns then. The breeder said they didnt disbud, they just dehorn with the bands at 6 mths old. I liked the idea of having horns on my goat, I even put little balls on the end of her horns, but I found it just too dangerous with my 2 and 4 year old children. I was forever worrying about them getting their eyes poked. So now she has the bands in place. they have been on a little over 2 weeks. I thought they would have done more by now. you can see that it is starting to cut in, but the horns are still very well attached, and they are still quite warm. Not sure what to do.


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## WarPony

kezhy said:


> I have recently banded my Nubian x saneen, 8 mth old doeling. I bought her mother with her at foot, when she was 2 months old. She had 2 inch horns then. The breeder said they didnt disbud, they just dehorn with the bands at 6 mths old. I liked the idea of having horns on my goat, I even put little balls on the end of her horns, but I found it just too dangerous with my 2 and 4 year old children. I was forever worrying about them getting their eyes poked. So now she has the bands in place. they have been on a little over 2 weeks. I thought they would have done more by now. you can see that it is starting to cut in, but the horns are still very well attached, and they are still quite warm. Not sure what to do.


Give it time. If you are really concerned add bands below the ones that are already on there (though I only add bands once a month) and just leave them alone otherwise. You really can't see the progress as the process is going on, the bands only ever just indent the horns very little, right up until they come off.


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## serenityfarmnm

Is that a pic of the top of the goats head?? ????????????


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## ogfabby

I don't dehorn but that pic just doesn't look right...


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## WarPony

ogfabby said:


> I don't dehorn but that pic just doesn't look right...


it looks pretty similar to other pictures I have seen of fresh surgically dehorned goats. Surgical dehorning does leave the sinuses in the skull open until they heal in, and it looks gruesome while it heals. But generally it is done under anaesthesia and the animal gets pain medication while healing. You just have to be very very strict about keeping it clean and cared for while it heals.


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## Vickir73

wow that does look gruesome. I'll just stick with banding until I can get an iron (which will hopefully be with the next pay check as I have babies due on the 18th). Let me ask this tho? Can I burn after I band? In my case I'm not sure if her's will come back or not, but would like to make sure, but I'm not sure if the little nubbies are too big to burn


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## WarPony

Vickir73 said:


> wow that does look gruesome. I'll just stick with banding until I can get an iron (which will hopefully be with the next pay check as I have babies due on the 18th). Let me ask this tho? Can I burn after I band? In my case I'm not sure if her's will come back or not, but would like to make sure, but I'm not sure if the little nubbies are too big to burn


I've heard of people burning the area where the horn fell off, to prevent scurs or regrowth, but I have never done it.


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## ASTONs Dairy

.:Linz:. said:


> I was just thinking I'm regretting banding my girls' horns since both of them have fevers now, and that maybe I should have had a vet do it instead. But after seeing that... I think I'm glad I banded! Even though I don't ever want to have to do that again either.
> 
> I'm sure the vet did a great job but I don't think I, personally, could handle seeing it open like that while waiting for it to heal.


Linz, I keep in covered, changed his bandage everyday. Looks much better today. Tomorrow will be a week so will take another picture


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## ASTONs Dairy

serenityfarmnm said:


> Is that a pic of the top of the goats head?? ????????????


yes that is the top of his head, the next day after the horns were removed


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## ksalvagno

kezhy said:


> they have been on a little over 2 weeks. I thought they would have done more by now. you can see that it is starting to cut in, but the horns are still very well attached, and they are still quite warm. Not sure what to do.


That isn't even enough time for them to fall off. I bet they fall off within a month or two. Make sure to change the bands once a month if it takes more than a month.


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## ASTONs Dairy

erica4481 said:


> Do u have your goat for sale on Craig's list? Your profile pic.


erica I did post George on craigs list. I was thinking about selling him. He is a mix goat. I was told Boer x but not sure. I bought him as soon as he was nibbling feed. Don't think we was even 8 weeks old. The boy that bought him from the sale barn, said he was told George was 3 months old but I doubt that he was. He was also with a Boer cross may be doe, who was suppose to be his dam, but I did not see him nurse from her. He tried but she would not let him. I think he is ND x maybe pigmy.


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## ASTONs Dairy

He has a cross on his back like a burrow. I love that about him. He is also very loving. He would not take a bottle for me but I had to hand feed him and fed him a lot of lettuce. Had to teach him to eat until I bought Maple and she took over that responsibility. He would not eat hay when I first got him.


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## peggy

This is good to know "War Pony". That you don't really notice anything about the rubber band indenting the horns right up til they fall off. I plan on banding one of mine this year after bug season. Most goats I have read about are does...... has anyone banded a wether?? They have way bigger horn bases, etc.


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## serenityfarmnm

Can't wait to see the updated pics.... I am still traumatized by that next day pic...


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## ASTONs Dairy

erica4481 said:


> Do u have your goat for sale on Craig's list? Your profile pic.


I did advertise him on craigs list, but have not sold him. Am still thinking that I might.


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## MsScamp

dlnicholson126 said:


> I know that kids are usually dis budded somewhere between day 1 & 10, but can a yearling be dis-budded successfully?
> 
> What would you all do if the goats horns are deformed and growing into the top of his head?
> 
> Cut them back or remove the horn completely? Something else?
> 
> I apologize if this question has been asked and answered just point be to the thread. I have a hard time with the search and it takes hours.
> 
> Thanks for the help


I've been in this situation and my vet successfully dehorned my 15 month old doeling. An interim owner botched her disbudding and when I got her back, her horn was headed for her eye. I took her in, they sedated her and removed the horn. I would strongly suggest that, should you go this route, you make sure your vet knows what he/she is doing. They told me that it is possible for the goat to drop dead while coming out of the sedation, but that it is usually older goats that that happens with.


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## ASTONs Dairy

Posted updated photos of the horn removal on the other thread http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/new-buck-horn-removal-142727/


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## Goatgirl21

BCG said:


> Has anyone tried putting some duct tape over the bands to keep them in place?


Ive been trying to band my lamancha/nubian who has straight horns and shes viscous with them. I put duct tape on for a couple weeks until the band made a groove so it wouldnt slip off


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## peggy

This is an interesting thread. I too want to band a young buckling, soon to be a wether. I would like to see more pictures and hear more stories of banding horns.


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## Goatgirl21

peggy said:


> This is an interesting thread. I too want to band a young buckling, soon to be a wether. I would like to see more pictures and hear more stories of banding horns.


One of my bands came off my nubian so I have to put new ones on so ill take pics of the one thats about to be almost cut thro


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## peggy

That would be great, Goatgirl21.


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## ASTONs Dairy

Update on Toupees horns on the other thread http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/new-buck-horn-removal-142727/


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