# Would you use this Alpine buck?



## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

Hi everyone! I'm a bit of a lurker on here but I need a little help deciding if I'm going to keep this buck. He is one of my first three goats I got almost 2 years ago and I made the epic mistake of not having him disbudded when the Breeders clove oil attempt failed. He isn't a nasty goat he's just a typical buck but I'm putting together a pro/con list to decide if I'm going to sell him or keep him. Eventually my kids will be showing so thats the type of babies I need to produce. 
Also does he look thin to you?


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I'd need to at least see pictures of his dam and her udder before deciding to use him on my does.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

Ranger1 said:


> I'd need to at least see pictures of his dam and her udder before deciding to use him on my does.


I don't have pictures of his dam but his sires dam is online so I don't know if that will help but I'll post a screen shot of her.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Something also really good to consider is what do your does look like? He might have something they lack or he might have a weakness that he shares with the doe and therefore increase the odds the kids will have it to. 

Personally I like his hind end. His rump looks fairly level and he looks like he has nice angulation behind. His neck attachment seems to be abrupt not nearly as smooth as his granddam. 

Are you trying to change anything with your does?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think his grand dam is gorgeous. I really like his rump and his withers and how he doesn't go downhill toward the front.

I can't see the width of the escutcheon area, or the width of the chest. I don't care for the lack of chest extension, and he just does not seem very... um...butch? I could easily see his body as the body of a doe. I may not be explaining this well.

So Arborgoats is right. What will he improve in your does?

For myself, I can't say he makes my heart go thump, but I wouldn't be repulsed either.

PS. I don't think my girls would accept him. They really have a type they go for.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

My does are actually part of why I'm unsure about keeping him I wouldn't be breeding him for anything that could be shown for at least a year. I'm going to post a picture of my Sannan/Alpine cross he's being bred too. I'm very new to breeding and there is only so much you can learn from a book so any advice and critiques are appreciated.

I didn't start out with the plan to have anything more then home milkers but that changed lol so now I'm re assessing my herd.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

Also if I do keep him I'll be buying doelings in the spring specifically to breed to him later on. What is the most important thing for me to look at in a doeling? I'm assuming her parents, specifically the dam but again I'm new so I figured I should ask.

This is one of his possible future mates. Just posting a pic because she's cute lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I can't really get behind the idea of specifically buying does in order to match a less than stellar buck...

I'm not trying to be mean, really.

I'll always spend more to get the best buck I can. I have not ever spent a thousand dollars on a goat. I probably never will. But to be sure, if I ever do, it will be on a buck before it is on a doe.

I HAVE bred to a not-great buck because it is what I had. But then the answer was to move the buck along, not buy does specifically for him.

I like this guy

http://goats.missdees.com/images/190L.jpg

This next one is only 1 year old. Yours is 2 and is not as studly as he is. Can you see the improvement over yours?

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4a/99/84/4a99844b0b1e32459bd093324bb7a083.jpg

This one is a 2 year old, like yours

http://www.sugarplumdairy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/20160830_2625-300x225.jpg


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

mariarose said:


> I can't really get behind the idea of specifically buying does in order to match a less than stellar buck...
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean, really.
> 
> ...


I don't think your being mean at all. You saying exactly what I was looking for an honest opinion.










That's his sire in the lower picture. I wasn't sure if he could grow and become studly in the next few months. He will be 2 in February.

When I got him it was originally to be a wether companion for my Nubian buck but that never happened and my plans changed so long story short I wanted to make sure he was worth the trouble of paying $200 for his breeder to register him and then buying does to compliment him or would I be better off just starting over again completely. 
I do know he is out of nice lines and his breeder charges $700 and up for weaned bucklings.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

So from what I have gathered you are looking to get into show worthy registered stock. You have an Alpine buck and an Alpine/Saanen doe. Are Alpines the breed of goat you want? Are they marketable in your area? Is he the cream of the crop for your area? These are questions that will affect how well showing will go.

I do think from the shadowing around his hind end he could use some more groceries. He looks a little hollowed out and his hind legs look like they don't have very much muscle.

His sire is a lighter framed buck, he lacks depth of rib and is fairly thin wasted which explains why your buck is that way as well. Personally where I am there aren't a whole lot of Alpines to choose from, there are Boers, Nigerians, or Nubians. So in my neck of the woods he isn't a bad buck. If you are wanting to get into Alpines, I could justify buying some does that come from wider and deep lines and seeing what I got with the cross if Alpines are truly where your heart is.

Can you take a picture from the side of your buck without his head reaching up so much? He doesn't have to be posed, but currently he is hyper extending his neck and collapsing his back, which is causing his abdomen to bow out. The side/but top view is a very different angle and makes his legs looks thicker than in the straight on shot where they look narrower.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

His rump is nicer than his sire's, and his sire still does not have much of a chest extension. I can't quite tell but it also looks like his sire is slab sided.

I can't answer your questions about what he is worth to you.

You could pay to have him registered and if he does not work out, pass him along. Only you know if demand for registered will pay for that $200. In the meantime, try him on a few does and see the offspring.

There is one thing that has finally been drummed into my head. Someone somewhere will always have another buckling for me to buy. I use what I have, make the best pairings I can, and upgrade when I need to.

But don't buy girls only for this boy. If you buy girls, buy the best girls you can. Because they would have to be worse than he is in order for him to improve on them. I don't see that as economically viable.

He may end up being exactly what you want. But that will take time. Registering him is valid if demand around you for those lines is strong.

I'll talk to you later, I have to do something for my husband right now.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

At first glance he reminds me of a reindeer! LOL The white one is very cute.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

OP, what's his pedigree?
The sire's dam is pretty nice, but she looks really off balance-looks like, but for that collar, she'd do a nosedive. She also appears to toe out in the rear and lacks rear udder attachment, both huge for me.
I also didn't realize he is two-but for his horns, I'd think he's a yearling at the most. How tall and heavy is he? It looks like he's standing on a slope, but he doesn't even come up to the handlers waist.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Ranger1 said:


> How tall and heavy is he?


 I didn't even notice that. Does he meet breed standard?


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

ArborGoats said:


> So from what I have gathered you are looking to get into show worthy registered stock. You have an Alpine buck and an Alpine/Saanen doe. Are Alpines the breed of goat you want? Are they marketable in your area? Is he the cream of the crop for your area? These are questions that will affect how well showing will go.
> 
> I do think from the shadowing around his hind end he could use some more groceries. He looks a little hollowed out and his hind legs look like they don't have very much muscle.
> 
> ...


His breeder is considered to have the best Alpines in the area from what I have been told. Most of the goats around here are from dairies who are more worried about production then conformation.

I think he looks a little thin too but I have asked several people around here and they all say he's dairy so they should look thin.

These are the pictures I have of him right now.
















I have a little bit of everything with my goats. Nubians and Boer are the two most popular around here. 
I adore the Alpines personality but they aren't in as high demand. Although I have people already asking if I'll have babies out of him.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

mariarose said:


> His rump is nicer than his sire's, and his sire still does not have much of a chest extension. I can't quite tell but it also looks like his sire is slab sided.
> 
> I can't answer your questions about what he is worth to you.
> 
> ...


Thank you. You've definitely given some stuff to take into consideration. 
I'm trying to remind myself that there will alway be other bucks I'm just worried I'll regret but my gut is telling me to pass him along.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

Ranger1 said:


> OP, what's his pedigree?
> The sire's dam is pretty nice, but she looks really off balance-looks like, but for that collar, she'd do a nosedive. She also appears to toe out in the rear and lacks rear udder attachment, both huge for me.
> I also didn't realize he is two-but for his horns, I'd think he's a yearling at the most. How tall and heavy is he? It looks like he's standing on a slope, but he doesn't even come up to the handlers waist.


I don't know how much of a difference a few months will make but he's 1 year and 7.5 months old. He is measuring 165lbs but I think he's more like 150 of I'm being honest and I haven't measured his height in a year but he was 26 inches and he has grown since then but he was the shortest of his three brothers so that is an excellent point. I should probably measure him again. 
Please forgive my newbieness


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nothing to forgive.

I gave you links to images, not to make you feel bad about you being a newbie, but so that you could observe for yourself what I was saying. Someone here did a similar thing for me once, and it helped train my eye toward what I wanted. I could not afford what I wanted, but at least I knew what I needed to work toward!

You have shown nothing but good sense. It is a pleasure conversing with you.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Oh, well he's way bigger than I thought. Still on the small side but not bad. 
Without knowing more about him or your does, yes, I would use this buck if that's what I had. He's a decent buck.


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## yashlier (Mar 4, 2016)

Instead of starting a new thread I'm just going to ask here since it's the same buck. Someone had said his horns look small for his age. I completely forgot his breeder tried to disbud him with clove oil injections, Clearly it didn't work but could that have effected his horn growth somehow?


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not sure. I don't think his horns look that small for being 18 months, but that is just me. I was personally more worried about his height compared to the handlers height which makes him look shorter than what you measured him at, but if he measures fine then its just perception.


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## shakti_moon (Apr 2, 2018)

yashlier said:


> His breeder is considered to have the best Alpines in the area from what I have been told. Most of the goats around here are from dairies who are more worried about production then conformation.
> 
> I think he looks a little thin too but I have asked several people around here and they all say he's dairy so they should look thin.
> 
> ...


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## shakti_moon (Apr 2, 2018)

I think that the joy you have with your animals and they with you is about as important as all the academic pedigree ego strokes. I know that was 2 years ago, but it looks like a nice dude, and if the does produce well, what more do you want? A niche in the goat farmers hall of fame? B e happy with your critters.


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