# Loss of two doelings



## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

Well, it was a sad day at Heart and Soul Farm. Our first babies since we got into goats looked like they were on their way as of 5:30 pm last night. We missed the first birth around 6:45 am (we checked her at midnight and again at 3:45 am and nothing was happening) but not by much because the little doe was still warm but lifeless. No heart beat, massaged but nothing... then the next one started coming but was breech. When it finally came out it was deformed so stillborn was a mercy for that one, a doe also. I realize that this happens in nature all the time but darn it, we were so excited to have a Christmas baby. Sad and heartbroken for mama, shes never had an issue before according to her former owner. This is life but wanted to share with others that'll understand.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Oh no! I had the same thing happen with one of my does but I lost Momma as well.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

goat girls said:


> Oh no! I had the same thing happen with one of my does but I lost Momma as well.


I am so sorry! We are so thankful our Momma is ok!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm really sorry. I have a young doe aborting right now. She's not far along, glad to say. I wish one of your doelings had been OK.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I'm really sorry. I have a young doe aborting right now. She's not far along, glad to say. I wish one of your doelings had been OK.


I'm so sorry! do you know why?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Not entirely. I did not want her bred this year, and did not in fact think she was bred. I think her size has something to do with it. And maybe because I was not feeding her like a bred doe.

I'm not really sorry she is not carrying to term. But I am concerned and keeping an eye on her activity and diet. So far she seems fine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Always remember, once labor begins, the 30 minute rule. Anytime a does gets to the 30 minute mark, and no kids are on the ground, she needs help. I will go in sooner than that, but that is just me. 

It sounds like you waited too long to get the rest of them out. 30 minutes or less per kid born, no more than that. 

I am truly sorry for the losses. 

Watch the does udder. Milk her out so she isn't overly full and busting at the seems. You can collect some colostrum and freeze it.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I'm really sorry. I have a young doe aborting right now. She's not far along, glad to say. I wish one of your doelings had been OK.


I do too. Thank you
I hope your momma will be ok


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Always remember, once labor begins, the 30 minute rule. Anytime a does gets to the 30 minute mark, and no kids are on the ground, she needs help. I will go in sooner than that, but that is just me.
> 
> It sounds like you waited too long to get the rest of them out. 30 minutes or less per kid born, no more than that.
> 
> ...


I wasn't sure how long to wait since she wasn't having strong or close contractions each time I checked her. The only clues were mucous dripping and her tendons had softened. Once she began strong contractions for the 2nd doe it happened within 10 - 15 minutes, i helped her since it was breech but otherwise quick. The first one i wasn't there unfortunately or I might've been able to do something...Thank you for the advice, I have more does that are bred! 
I am planning to get the colostrum as soon as I get home and freeze it in bags, then keep milking her just in case we have any other issues with the soon to pop others!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I am so sorry you lost them 

You say deformed, can you explain that a bit more? Did she have hair?


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I am so sorry you lost them
> 
> You say deformed, can you explain that a bit more? Did she have hair?


yes she had hair but no eyes, and her head was very misshapen. Her ears weren't developed either


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Swollen thyroid gland?


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Swollen thyroid gland?


Nope


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

Oh I'm so sorry!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh dear, I'm so sorry that your first goat birth was like this. 

If the first doeling looked normal and the dam had cleaned her well, I would strongly suspect selenium deficiency. The kids are born barely alive and weak. What do you offer for mineral supplements?

As for the 2nd - Any dewormer or meds used during early pregnancy?


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> Oh dear, I'm so sorry that your first goat birth was like this.
> 
> If the first doeling looked normal and the dam had cleaned her well, I would strongly suspect selenium deficiency. The kids are born barely alive and weak. What do you offer for mineral supplements?
> 
> As for the 2nd - Any dewormer or meds used during early pregnancy?


Before I knew she was pregnant ( I bought her and her former owner wasn't sure either because she'd been with a new buck) I gave her safeguard 10/22. This was all done before she started to show. I have a mineral block for goats only and she was given a copper bolus 12/03


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

Goatrude said:


> Before I knew she was pregnant ( I bought her and her former owner wasn't sure either because she'd been with a new buck) I gave her ivermectin. This was all done before she started to show. I have a mineral block for goats only and she was given a copper bolus.


To add I bought her 10/01 to give more info


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Sad !


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Safeguard did not cause this so no worries there.

Do you have other pregnant does?

I strongly recommend you purchase selenium oral gel or get Bo-Se injections from a vet to give to all the animals in your herd. But most especially if there are other pregnant does.

Goats don't really have big rough to guess like a cow and they really need a lot of minerals and mineral deficiencies can cause so many different issues. It's hard for them to get enough from blocks and licks. Loose minerals (which are sand consistency) have a lot higher mineral levels and are way easier for goats to consume. You leave them out in a small dish up off the ground free choice (as much as they want to eat.) In MOST herds, even with loose minerals, they need additional selenium and copper so copper boluses are a great move on your part!


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I get my Bo-se gel from valley vet. Jeffers sells it as well but it costs more


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> Safeguard did not cause this so no worries there.
> 
> Do you have other pregnant does?
> 
> ...


Good point on the loose minerals. I wasn't sure but will now pick some up. On the selenium I erred on the side of safety due to not knowing what my soil is low in. I figured If my horses didn't need e-selenium then my goats probably didn't either. ...my bad. I do have other pregnant does. What loose mineral do you recommend?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't own horses, but I believe goats (especially breeding animals) are MUCH more mineral dependent. Also the soils things is tricky because even if you miraculously have enough selenium in your soil (most places don't) - the goats may be fed hay and grain grown in other parts of the state/country.

I use Sweetlix Meat Maker minerals (okay for any breed). Depends on which brands your feed store carries! If you only have a few goats then Manna Pro offers a small 8lb bag.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

If your goats pastern's drop often or if they go down on their knees a lot they need selinium. here is a link to some differint kinds of minerals and a way to make your own feeder.
http://www.sweetdeseret.com/wblog/?p=93


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

So sorry for the loss of the kids.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

Well now momma has a temp of 104.6 I’ve given pen g, 3mls sq. She is eating but I’m afraid she has retained placenta. No mastitis


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I had retained placentas when my does were mineral deficient. You are right, she does need an antibiotic, and something to expel that placenta. I got a drug from the vet, but the name escapes me. It wasn't lute, it was... shoot... on the tip of my memory...

When I remember, I'll come back. My vet said it was better...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Pitocin. That was it. He gave me Pitocin (for the goats)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh man, retained placenta. 

Good call giving penG. Do it 2 x a day, 1 cc per 10-20 lbs. 

Does she stink really bad in the vulva area? If so, it is uterine infection to retained placenta. 

If she smells normal, it could be pneumonia. 
Get a new surgical glove and with the tip of your finger, go in just to the 1st knuckle of you finger, pull it out and do the sniff test. Yeah I know, the things we have to do, LOL.  But that can tell you if it is infection there, because there is no mistake with the odor. Sometimes you can smell them just standing beside them.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Slow to drop placenta is also a sign of selenium deficiency.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Oh man, retained placenta.
> 
> Good call giving penG. Do it 2 x a day, 1 cc per 10-20 lbs.
> 
> ...


 No stinky woowoo! Lol. I'm a vet tech by trade so the 
" gross " stuff doesn't get to me thank goodness! Should I go in and get the yuck out?
I have gotten the loose minerals. Unable to find selenium to give asap so I'll order bo-se to get it early next week. You all have been a great help to me!!!!


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

@Goatrude this where I get my selenium give slightly more than the tube says It's a gel but it works well and it's harder to over does 
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/selenium-vitamin-e-gel-for-goats


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No, do not clean/pull out the yuck, if there is, it is to test her, by the simple sniff test. Unless she is open somehow. Otherwise, she should be closed and there is no way getting your hand in there.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> No, do not clean/pull out the yuck, if there is, it is to test her, by the simple sniff test. Unless she is open somehow. Otherwise, she should be closed and there is no way getting your hand in there.


I didn't pull it but have continued the pen g. Her temp is normal and she is almost back to herself. The regular 
"Sniff" test is all good! The former owner used the same buck for another non related doe and had 4 Breech babies with only one survivor and the last one born was deformed similar to mine, tiny muzzle and no eyes.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

So sorry. Maybe its the buck? If thats the case maybe the other doeling had internal problems


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she doesn't stink back there, it may be pneumonia. That is good, she smells normal.

Could be mineral deficiency causing kidding issues.


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> If she doesn't stink back there, it may be pneumonia. That is good, she smells normal.
> 
> Could be mineral deficiency causing kidding issues.


I have ordered bo-se injectable, can you tell me what dose you use?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

did she ever expel the placenta? If not, then she needs something from the vet to deal with that.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Goatrude, I use Bose injected IM at 1 cc per 40 lbs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, 1 cc per 40 lbs, but I give it SQ.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Where did you find Bo-Se that you can order? Did you need an RX #? Curious - getting ready to place an order the first of the year. Thanks!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've never ordered, but I know that different companies have different options for filling prescriptions, options which are explained on their websites and in their print catalogues.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Even ordering online, you still need a prescription.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

That's what I thought - just checking. Thank you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No problem.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

I have nothing much to add, just wanted to offer my condolences & sympathy. Especially to have it happen during the holidays.... sad beyond words....

Also you can get human selenium supplements at places that have a good selection of vitamins & supplements.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

If you can't get a prescription you can get a paste that works well not as good as Bo-Se but no prescription needed. Here's where I get mine
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=50D6622D-C3C0-48C1-90F1-CCDB85563B19


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

mariarose said:


> did she ever expel the placenta? If not, then she needs something from the vet to deal with that.


Yes, she expelled the placenta. no temp and back to normal!!!!


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

goat girls said:


> If you can't get a prescription you can get a paste that works well not as good as Bo-Se but no prescription needed. Here's where I get mine
> https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=50D6622D-C3C0-48C1-90F1-CCDB85563B19


My ex-husband is a veterinarian (small animal and exotic) and will let me order anything thru our clinic (we still co-own and run it together) that I need which works really well!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goatrude said:


> My ex-husband is a veterinarian... and will let me order anything


I gotta get me one of those...


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm so sorry too......One of my does kidded in July, the first one was stillborn and the second one was laying there weak not even trying to get up. It had only been about 20 or 30 minutes that I was out of her sight when she had them. They were born 2 weeks premature. I did everything I could to keep the second on alive but after the second day of trying to feed it colostrum through a syringe and even feeding tube it just gave up. I even had it to the vet, the vet said the lungs were probably not fully developed. I do not know why the premature birth. Mama was so sad at the loss of both her kids, I felt so sorry for her. I am going to try one more time.


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## newtogo (Jun 19, 2013)

I know how sad you must be. My first kids arrived in Feb a few years ago. The new Mom didn't know what to and when I arrived 30 mins later only a flicker of life remained in one of the three. The other two were still in the caul and frozen. I wailed and rushed the living one to the house and saved him with warm water and a stomach tube - but he is handicapped. We call him Champ and love him dearly - our only wether. Since then I've had many healthy kids born. Don't let this discourage you. 
Andrea
Bloomsburgplantation.com


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I gotta get me one of those...


trust me ...it's not worth it sometimes!!! LOLOL


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## katherineann56 (Apr 14, 2016)

Goatrude said:


> Well, it was a sad day at Heart and Soul Farm. Our first babies since we got into goats looked like they were on their way as of 5:30 pm last night. We missed the first birth around 6:45 am (we checked her at midnight and again at 3:45 am and nothing was happening) but not by much because the little doe was still warm but lifeless. No heart beat, massaged but nothing... then the next one started coming but was breech. When it finally came out it was deformed so stillborn was a mercy for that one, a doe also. I realize that this happens in nature all the time but darn it, we were so excited to have a Christmas baby. Sad and heartbroken for mama, shes never had an issue before according to her former owner. This is life but wanted to share with others that'll understand.


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## katherineann56 (Apr 14, 2016)

I am so sorry!


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

My sincerest condolences! So sorry it happened right around the holidays too!:rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

So sorry to hear, not all were meant to be, and often it is minerals. Our lessons learned, that was the main culprit. Minerals and vitamin deficits, along with not understanding all of the intense needs as mentioned along the way/with great comments here. But, so sad and thanks for sharing/all of you. It is a learning process and we do best we can at the time with the information we have the situations presented.

My heart breaks for all the lost kids and their mamas! I always want to save them all, and my heart breaks at any lost. So sad and hard. Life is life! 

Know you tried and certainly your animals know or knew you cared, whether or not you could save them, at least you tried.

Goats are very fast at metabolizing minerals and vitamins and need quick intervention!

Hugs to all, and Happy New Year!


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## Goatrude (Sep 21, 2017)

All my sweeties have gotten their Bo-Se injections. We have loose minerals free choice. The information from you all has been priceless!!!! Thank you all so much and Happy New Year.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Happy New Year to you.


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