# Sick goat



## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Around thanksgiving one of our female Nigerians was really sick. She was really weak and loosing weight fast! Within a few days she could no longer stand on her own. The vet said our wormer valbazen stopped working and said she had the highest worm load he has ever seen in a live goat. He gave her cydectin(sp?) and gave us b12 shots to give her. Within about a day and a half of being home she passed away. 
Now we have a female who is not acting very well. She's starting to loose weight and we have wormed her with ivomec injectable. She is still up and walking but seems weak in the rear end like the doe that we just lost. She's still eating. Pooping pellets. Her urine is dark but I'm giving her electrolyte water to try and rehydrate her. We've brought her inside the house to keep an eye on her. She is 2 years old. Our thermometer pooped out on us so I'm fixing to go to walmart and get a new one I'll post a temp when I get back. My question is what all diseases make goats go weak in the back end? 
Also as a note the doe that we recently lost her rumen shut down and her temp was very low! In the upper 90s. Right before she passed away her neck was stiff and drew back to her side. We could not keep her neck straight. 
Also I'm very sorry for such a long post but about 2 weeks ago I pulled a deer tick off of our inside bottle baby. Where the tick was located on her neck there is a small knot and a large black scab. I'll try to post a picture of it. Could ticks be causing this though? Possibly Lyme disease?








Also we will be taking our sick girl to the vet tomorrow I do believe she has a respiratory infection also because she is raspy. And nasal discharge.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Yeah, I would definitely check into illnesses caused by ticks. It's good you're keeping her hydrated, and giving her vit b for energy.
If you have Apple cider vinegar, I would make a drench and give that to her, acv is known to purify their digestive system and help with possible urinary troubles.
And if you have extra honey, you could give her a tablespoon of that orally or put it directly on the tick bites, it helps to draw out the toxins
Hope you figure out what the problem is!


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Temp is 100.5 so it's low. What would you all recommend to do to raise her temp? She has been out in the barn until about 4 pm today it is now 10 pm. The temps here today have been in the 20s and with this cold spell it's been about 3 to 7 degrees outside during the day. Would that make her temp be off? It's about 70 degrees inside our house.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Weak back ends can be Meningeal Worm.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You need to give B1 as well as or in place of B12. Your other girl shut down and that often happens when the rumen stops working. The neck posturing is classic to Polio. 

Do you live in a White tail deer area?
Is the girl still eating and drinking on her own? 
What color are the inside of her lower eyelids? White, light pink, dark pink.


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Yes we live in white tail area. Eyelids are white. She is anemic. We have vit b complex and red cell on hand. And pen g. 

The doe that we recently lost, the vet didn't think it had anything to do with brain worm. We have had a doe get that before we believe. She was walking in circles acting blind one ear up and one ear down. And drooling. We gave her high doses of pen. And she got better quickly.


We've been giving this sick girl pen. G. Should we also start her on what we have (b complex and red cell)? If so, what doses would you recommend ?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would assume Deer worm and treat ASAP..Weak back legs is one of the first signs...Safe guard 1 cc per 7# orally and Ivemec plus 1 cc per 40# sub Q 
Dex or Banamine to reduce brain swelling..
I would also treat for polio and listeriosis....which is B1 (thiamin) and Penicillin...this article tells you how much to give
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

Anemia: red cell is 6 cc per 100# daily for a week and then once a week..I would double day ones dose...Vit B 12, high protien feed alflafa and green leaves if you still have ny will help her rebuild her red blood cells..
mix 50/50 Apple Cider Vinegar and drench her 20-30 cc daily to speed her recovery...

another thought is the tick...here is an article on redwater...not sure if that is an issue in your area,, but signs are weak stance, alot like polio...

http://www.farmersweekly.co.za/article.aspx?id=5362&h=Tick-borne-diseases-in-goats-and-sheep-

best wishes


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That should have been Heartwater..not red water , here is a quote from another source..again, im not sure if this is an issue in your area...

•


> The disease can range from mild to severe, depending on
> different factors like species, age, protection, tick control,
> climate, season and seriousness of parasite strain
> • The early signs for all diseases are often loss of *appetite,
> ...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

critergiter09 said:


> The doe that we recently lost, the vet didn't think it had anything to do with brain worm. We have had a doe get that before we believe. She was walking in circles acting blind one ear up and one ear down. And drooling. We gave her high doses of pen. And she got better quickly.


That's not Meningeal Worm. That is Polio or Listeriosis. M worm usually starts with weakness in the back legs. They eventually can't get up and walk at all.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> She is still up and walking but seems weak in the rear end like the doe that we just lost. She's still eating.My question is what all diseases make goats go weak in the back end?


While I agree with karen , the signs of the doe you lost points to Listeriosis or polio,
Your recent case could be Menigeal Worm, but also points to Listeriosis..I would treat for both to be on the safe side...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would treat for both Polio/listeria and Menigeal worm. Could be a combination, as far down as she is, I would not just treat for one issue.
She has symptoms of both, anemic is either worms or cocci.

If you take her to the vet and have them do a work up on her, she can get proper treatment sooner, would be wise. If it is a knowledgeable goat vet.

Also give iron supplements for anemia.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/polio-listeriosis-signs-treatment-112786/#p153682

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/goat-polio-140074/


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

We took her to the vet this morning. And he said that she still had quite a few worms even though we just gave her the third treatment of ivomec. I checked with him and made sure we were giving the correct dosage. He gave her cydectin and antibiotics for the respiratory infection. Her temp was 102.2 so she wasn't high nor low. So that was good. He wants to see her back Monday and do another fecal then. He said he has been seeing a lot of goats this year with heavy worm load and said it seems like in our area the worms have become resistant to ivomec along with valbazen and safegaurd. She is walking fine today he said she is anemic and gave her a vit. B shot. He also said she is loosing muscle tone and that could be causing her to become weak in the rearend. But she was up walking around at the vet and she was up walking after I posted last night.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Worm load would not cause the kind the kind of symptoms shehas..they could be secondary due to her immune system being compromised...I would still treat for polio, listeriosis and MW...

Best wishes


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I so agree.


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Thank you all for your replies and all of you help! She is doing much better today. She is still up and walking and being her mean old self towards our house pets  My next biggest concern is putting weight back on. She has lost. 5 lbs. she is a very tiny Nigerian. The most she has ever weighed is 35 lbs. what is the best route to putting weight on. I've read beet pulp is a good way. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/standlee-hay-premium-beet-pulp-shreds-25-lb?cm_vc=-10005 has anyone here used this, and is this the right beet pulp to buy?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

slow and steady..you canadd Black oil sun flower seed or beet pulp but do add slowly...small amounts at a time...
Its great sheis feeling better...I would watch for suddle signs of relaps..if she indeed has Listeriosis and has a relaps it is harder to recover from...
What treatment is being done at this time?


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Sorry for the delay we've been busy trying to fence in a new area for all the girls. Molly is doing a lot better. She goes back to the vet moday for a check up. 
Monday when we went to the vet again they said the cydectin wormer did not seem to even touch the neematodes. I'm not exactly sure what neematodes are, I should have asked the vet. From what I've looked up I think it's barber pole worms since she is anemic.
She had lost 2 more lbs since the first vet visit 4 days prior. Anyways . They gave her a b12 shot, and panacur. And sent us home with 4 doses of panacur to give her. Tomorrow is her last dose of panacur. She seems to be doing a lot better, she looks better. She has more energy. Even jumping up on the couch trying to eat any snacks that we have. I've been giving her probiotics everyday. She has loose minerals. She is eatting hay, green forage, and grain. She is also getting fruits like bananas and apples. Stealing our French fries.

But the vet said the valbazen, ivomec, and cydectin are not working. We will see Monday if the panacur is working. I believe it is, at least I hope it is. My question for you all is #1 what are neematodes? And #2 what wormer would you recommend, or what would be our next strongest wormer to try?








This is a picture of Molly at the vet last Monday. She was not pleased.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

shes a cutie...im glad she is feeling better...
nematodes are round worms...also known as barepole...
Barpole worms and liver fluke both cause anemia and bottle jaw AND look very simular under the mic, this is why many think Ivomec no longer works, they are treating the wrong worm....I would use Ivomec plus..3 times ten days apart then once again in 30 days..Since she already has been wormed, oral is fine if you prefer...the dose is 1 cc per 40# sub Q or 1 cc per 33# orally...usuing the correct dose is important...When you used Vlabazen, which also kills liver fluke, what dose was given?


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Try Dectomax it is an injectable and give it by injection. The dosage is 2cc per 100lbs. We had a major worm problem earlier this year and when we consulted with our vet he said we had to switch meds for a bit. Thankfully we followed his advice and were able to get them straightened out without losing anyone. Plus by the end of the summer we got the"WOW" factor when people stopped by our farm. They looked amazing. He told us not only to change our meds but to rotate what meds we give. This way it breaks the worm life cycle and helps to prevent the worms from building immunity. We were very impressed with the results. Dectomax is also safe for preggo's.


I also agree with everyone about treating for Polio and Listerosis and the use of red cell.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What dosages are you using?

Valbazen should be 1cc per 10 lbs. Ivomec is 1cc per 25 lbs orally or 1cc per 40 lbs injected. Not sure on Cydectin since I don't use it.

Cydectin is actually the next generation above Dectomax.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Part of the problem they are seeing all over the US is because people give a dewormer to their goats when the calender says or when they kid. 

EVERYONE should only be doing it if a fecal float shows it is needed. That is why the meds are nor working, they are so over medicated.

I am so glad she is doing better, she is sure a doll. 

Give Probiotics as well.


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

We went to the vet yesterday and she had gained 1 lb. so she's not lost anymore weight. But the vet said the panacur didn't work for her either. I'm going to go to co-op tomorrow and see if I can get some dectomax. After reading the replies on here I did some more research on dectomax and nematodes and this website that I came across says it treats all types of nematodes. 
http://www.infovets.com/books/smrm/B/B620.htm

Crossing our fingers that it works!!

Molly is doing good though, she actually chases me through the kitchen to try and steel any food that I get. And when the refrigerator is opened she expects to get a banana, and you have to drag her out of the fridge! It's too cute! Other than that she is a very good house guest. Unlike our bottle baby who is also inside she doesn't try to jump on the kitchen bar, or bathroom sink. Or try to carry the trash bag out of the trash can. Molly does like to get in the way when I'm trying to mop, sweep, and vacuum. Which we are doing a lot of!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is improving.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

glad she is well enough to give you fits lol..


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## cheyenne (Aug 21, 2011)

It's great she's doing better! Have you tried any of the herbal wormers? I don't believe the worms become immune to those. You do have to keep on top of it tho. I have been using Molly's herbals for a couple of years now with fairly good results. Last time I had a fecal done at the vet, he said it was the cleanest goat poop he'd ever seen!

Since I am also giving it to my horses, I am switching to Fir Meadows as soon as I run out of Molly's because she started adding black walnut to her formula #1. I won't give my horses black walnut! I've heard a lot of good things about Fir Meadows too.


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

It didn't dawn on me to try the herbals. Our co-op doesn't carry dectomax and the young girl behind the counter made it sound like a huge inconvenience if she had to place an order of 24 bottles just so that I could buy 1. So I just placed an order of Molly's herbal dewormer #1 and #2. One good thing came from co-op though I just placed an order for seeds to start growing our own fodder.


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## critergiter09 (Jan 4, 2012)

Molly's herbal dewormer came in the mail today while we were heading to the vet for a check up. The vet took 2 fecal samples, one for them and one for the university of Tennessee. The test that the vet ran showed a total of 3 eggs left. So Molly is doing much better. I'm so happy thAt the worms are gone!! I was so worried that we would have to put her down. She has not lost anymore weight. So now we are still giving her vit. B, and Probios. Along with loose minerals, hay, anything green that I can find for her, and fruits and veggies. Friday I go pick up seeds from co-op and I'm going to attempt to grow fodder. The lush greens would really help her build back up. She is doing great though. Thank you all for your support!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Don't celebrate yet, worms don't lay eggs in the wintertime when their babies will die. I'm always amazed that vets don't tell people that. Start with the Mollys and see if it works for you. Get some Swiss Chard seed as well, great plant that offers vitamin packed food almost year round.


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## cheyenne (Aug 21, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Don't celebrate yet, worms don't lay eggs in the wintertime when their babies will die. I'm always amazed that vets don't tell people that. Start with the Mollys and see if it works for you. Get some Swiss Chard seed as well, great plant that offers vitamin packed food almost year round.


I never knew that... But it makes sense! So doing fecals in the winter is a waste of time?


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