# New to the meat world....



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

2 questions really. 
I know that Boar and Kinders are great for meat... Is there any other breed good for meat out there? Some say Toggenberg, but from what I have read they are considered a dairy breed.

Also, I have 2 Nubian/Lamancha does that are 5 years old. Would they be considered good for meat at the age of 5, and them being a dairy breed? I'm actually only considering butchering one of them, she has an uneven hoof condition in the front hooves, and it appears she can't get bred. 

Thanks!


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes to both your questions. Any breed can be put on the table.
Boers & Kikos are built to pack on the meat, Boers at a faster rate then Kiko.
Meat/ dairy crosses also.
We've had 4 yr old ground doe.


----------



## Glockowner (Mar 16, 2012)

nancy d said:


> Boers & Kikos are built to pack on the meat, Boers at a faster rate then Kiko.


Research shows the Kiko goats have the fastest rate of gain.

http://www.goatcentral.com/kiko_vs__boer.htm


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The author did state that neither breed in their situation had great gains because of diet when that article was written. 
Also why would they want more fat on the loins?
I have always understood that Kiko is slower growing than Boer. Not knocking the breed at all.
Thanks for the info Glockowner!


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks everyone, never thought or read about Kiko.


----------



## Glockowner (Mar 16, 2012)

I am happy to share what I have read. I have no personal experience yet, I have just been reading and researching for about 18 months trying to be as knowledgeable as possible prior to bringing some goats home. 

From what I have read Boers generally have larger kids, but the Kiko breed is more vigorous growing. The Kikos are also supposed to be more efficient at turning forage and browse into meat than other breeds. 

I am more interested in Kikos for their easy kidding and hardy nature. 

Boers have the advantage of being more popular, which will make them easier to sell as 4H kids.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Kikos gain more per day then boers for their frame but boers hold more and are usually heavier at weaning. 

You can eat any goat but boers, myotonic and kinder are some really good meat goats. So are savannas


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> Kikos gain more per day then boers for their frame but boers hold more and are usually heavier at weaning.
> 
> You can eat any goat but boers, myotonic and kinder are some really good meat goats. So are savannas


I'm thinking kinder at this point. I already have 2 kinder does and a buck. The 2 does I will use for milk, but their kids...... ? I am thinking of adding 2 more to my heard, and then I can invest in a new buck next season, and start my meat heard. They can't be named..... Yikes....., this is going to be hard, but I wanna be logical in all sides. I already have people who wanna buy my wether sheep, and wether goats for their table... Nope they have names, and they were originally bought for pets, and clearing to property, and well I'm too attached to them.....


----------



## redhillgirl (Mar 23, 2013)

I've heard a lot of people recommend a boer/kiko cross. Several people I visited prior to getting a 4-H project for my boys alternated breed when they changed out their buck. I'm not familiar with the kinder but if they make better mothers you may want to use a boer buck. That's assuming they're compatible size wise.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

redhillgirl said:


> I've heard a lot of people recommend a boer/kiko cross. Several people I visited prior to getting a 4-H project for my boys alternated breed when they changed out their buck. I'm not familiar with the kinder but if they make better mothers you may want to use a boer buck. That's assuming they're compatible size wise.


The kinders are a cross between the Pygmy and Nubian, so they are smaller. Crossing thin with a Kiko of boer wouldn't be an option really. I like the kinders, because I do milk, and I "think" I'm ready for the meat side. I guess they dress out to 60% of their body weight, and I'm guessing to make it worth it I would need 4 or more to butcher. Still looking at prices here in WA, because I would need to hire it to be done.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Goats dress out around 50-55% usually.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Sometimes less and somtkmes more. Usually closer.to 50


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

janeen128 said:


> The kinders are a cross between the Pygmy and Nubian, so they are smaller. Crossing thin with a Kiko of boer wouldn't be an option really. I like the kinders, because I do milk, and I "think" I'm ready for the meat side. I guess they dress out to 60% of their body weight, and I'm guessing to make it worth it I would need 4 or more to butcher. Still looking at prices here in WA, because I would need to hire it to be done.


Janeen if you are up around Skagit county, Del Fox Meats does excellent job.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

nancy d said:


> Janeen if you are up around Skagit county, Del Fox Meats does excellent job.


I'm in Pierce County. Thanks though


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ever heard of Stewart Meats in McKenna?


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

nancy d said:


> Ever heard of Stewart Meats in McKenna?


Nope, but I'll look into them. I have a friend that gave me a # out of Enumclaw too. So I will look them up and see what they charge for goats. The one in Enumclaw is Olsen Meats.


----------



## bbellhbl (Aug 1, 2013)

Kikos gain on forage with out having to have supplemental feed. Of course they don't mind being fed out.


----------



## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

bbellhbl said:


> Kikos gain on forage with out having to have supplemental feed. Of course they don't mind being fed out.


And this is different from Boers how?

My Boers stay on pasture year round and do excellant, if anything grows. Only non show animal that gets supplemental feed is does nursing trips, IF they need it....and that's only 1lb to 1.5lbs a day.

Kikos, Savanna, Kinders, Fainters, etc are meat minority niche breeds that take a hit on the sale floor, are not popular or competive as show market wethers and have far less direct market value. The meat goat industry has two boxes, Boer/BoerX and "all others". Just the way it is.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> And this is different from Boers how?
> 
> My Boers stay on pasture year round and do excellant, if anything grows. Only non show animal that gets supplemental feed is does nursing trips, IF they need it....and that's only 1lb to 1.5lbs a day.
> 
> Kikos, Savanna, Kinders, Fainters, etc are meat minority niche breeds that take a hit on the sale floor, are not popular or competive as show market wethers and have far less direct market value. The meat goat industry has two boxes, Boer/BoerX and "all others". Just the way it is.


Agree and really looking at the breed history kikos arent technically a meat goat.... they were bred as a feral breed to feed sailors in new Zealand and come originally from spanish type goats because of their hardiness. They were improved in their milk production and frame size by breeding in saaneen which is where the lack of muscle mass come from as well as the white color. Really I consider a kiko more brush type for lack of muscle mass. Very few actually look meaty.

The other breeds GTAllen listed are truly minority in meat goats. While I love fainters they aren't a huge portion of meat goats


----------



## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm really curious if anyone out there is raising Tennessee meat goats or the Texas meat type goats. It seems like the reason Boers are so popular in the us is just out of custom. And they are nice looking goats with great feed conversion. But I also know many producers trying to get away from Boers altogether by making fainting and kiko crosses as well as others. Not knocking boers, all mine are Boer crosses so I'm not a hater ;^]


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Baphomet said:


> I'm really curious if anyone out there is raising Tennessee meat goats or the Texas meat type goats. It seems like the reason Boers are so popular in the us is just out of custom. And they are nice looking goats with great feed conversion. But I also know many producers trying to get away from Boers altogether by making fainting and kiko crosses as well as others. Not knocking boers, all mine are Boer crosses so I'm not a hater ;^]


Most of the bad things you hear about Boers comes from folks that are raising another breed. They have a dog in the fight, so to speak. I don't think you can totally fake those studies that show 50 lb Kiko kids cutting up pretty much the same or higher percentage meat than the same size Boer kids, so I'm not arguing that. Just that the "horror stories" are exaggerated about Boers.


----------



## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

I definitely hear you. Still, for me, I'm in this to raise meat for myself and my family. I don't care about winning shows. I'm trying to make a need that is as hybridized as possible. 

But I do love to see those pics on this site of those strapping bucks. Very impressive animals.


----------



## Baphomet (Jun 15, 2013)

Baphomet said:


> I definitely hear you. Still, for me, I'm in this to raise meat for myself and my family. I don't care about winning shows. I'm trying to make a need that is as hybridized as possible.
> 
> But I do love to see those pics on this site of those strapping bucks. Very impressive animals.


Duh, make a herd not need. Autocorrect!


----------



## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

Lots of opinions on types of meat goats, it just depends on who you talk too lol

If anyone is interested in reading an alternate but successful meat goat in my area http://www.goatmeats.com/asp/Information/How-Our-Goats-Are-Raised.asp

I quickly pulled that up, you will need to navigate around to read more on percentages.


----------



## bbellhbl (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm not "a hater" either, just haven't found Boers here that do well. I would love to see photos of pure Boers that have been raised on grass pasture with no supplemental feed. 
The meat goat industry is a wide open opportunity. Promote the goat!


----------



## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

bbellhbl said:


> I'm not "a hater" either, just haven't found Boers here that do well. I would love to see photos of pure Boers that have been raised on grass pasture with no supplemental feed.
> The meat goat industry is a wide open opportunity. Promote the goat!


There are herds with 500 to 1000 animals on a lot of ranches in Texas around San Angelo and Lampassa. Not exactly "grass pasture". But those goats never see any feed and they do just fine. Few goats will thrive on mono-culture grass pasture.


----------



## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Boer kiko crosses would be my recommendation. Have you ever heard of the Texas genemaster? I would look into them if I were you.


----------



## Genesis (Aug 15, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> 2 questions really.
> I know that Boar and Kinders are great for meat... Is there any other breed good for meat out there?


My boer percentage doe jumped the fence and got bred with a kiko. I had never thought to use kiko, but I got three kids out of that doe, sold the two girls, and the wether will be brought in to butcher soon. I really like the looks of them. It was my first year, and I didn't know about minerals. My other two does that were bred with a boer birthed floppy weak babies. Out of one litter, I had to nurse a nearly dead kid back to health in my home, and the other two were too weak at first to feed. I had to go down every couple of hours to hold their heads up to the teat. the other boer percentage breeding two died within hours, the third was spoiled and grew up big. I learned my lesson the hard way. This year I'm doing it right. We have minerals, plus she will get a mineral injection before she births. But based on my own inexperienced opinion, all three kiko kids were hardy and healthy despite the lack of minerals, and I love the size of their rumps. When I get more does, I will probably ask my neighbor to use his buck again. I'm really impressed. They beat the odds.


----------



## Glockowner (Mar 16, 2012)

More research showing that Kiko's are more productive, parasite resistant, and generally healthier than Boers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21036938



> Boer (n = 132), Kiko (n = 92), and Spanish (n = 79) straightbred does were studied across 6 yr to assess doe fitness on southeastern US pastures. Does were exposed to Boer, Kiko, and Spanish bucks in a complete 3-breed diallel mating scheme each fall for spring kidding in March or May. A total of 1,041 doe-yr units were observed with does (ranging from 2 to 8 yr of age) managed together in a semi-intensive manner. The proportion of buck-exposed does delivering at least 1 live kid was less (P < 0.01) for Boer does (80%) than for Kiko (96%) and Spanish does (94%). Litter size and litter weight at birth were not affected (P > 0.15) by breed of dam. By weaning at 3 mo, the proportion of available does weaning at least 1 kid was less (P < 0.01) for Boer does (53%) than for Kiko (84%) and Spanish does (82%). For does weaning kids, litter size at weaning was greater (P = 0.01) for Spanish does (1.74 kids) than for Kiko (1.59 kids) and Boer does (1.47 kids). Litter weaning weight was lighter (P < 0.01) for Boer dams (23.0 kg) than for Kiko (27.2 kg) and Spanish dams (26.5 kg). The efficiency ratio of litter weight to dam weight at weaning differed (P < 0.05) among all 3 dam breeds: Boer = 51%; Kiko = 62%; Spanish = 68%. Annual rates of lameness, endoparasitism, and attrition, respectively, were greater (P < 0.01) for Boer does (69, 53, and 28%) than for Kiko (32, 24, and 10%) and Spanish does (42, 22, and 11%). Postpartum fecal egg counts for endoparasite loads were less (P < 0.05) for Spanish dams (346 eggs/g) than for Kiko (524 eggs/g) and Boer does (675 eggs/g). Whole-herd annual doe productivity based on all available does was less (P < 0.01) for Boer does (11.7 kg weaned/doe) compared with Kiko (22.0 kg weaned/doe) and Spanish does (21.1 kg weaned/doe). Boer does expressed substantially decreased levels of fitness compared with Kiko and Spanish does when semi-intensively managed on humid, subtropical pasture. Kiko and Spanish should be preferred as maternal breeds in meat goat production systems under conditions reflective of this study.


Just so you don't think I have a biased opinion, my only two goats are grade boers.


----------



## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Glockowner said:


> More research showing that Kiko's are more productive, parasite resistant, and generally healthier than Boers.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21036938
> 
> Just so you don't think I have a biased opinion, my only two goats are grade boers.


What is a "grade" boer?


----------



## Glockowner (Mar 16, 2012)

Grade is a term used to describe non registered animals. 

I believe it is a reference to them meeting the standards of the breed without having a pedigree.


----------



## bbellhbl (Aug 1, 2013)

Genesis said:


> My boer percentage doe jumped the fence and got bred with a kiko. I had never thought to use kiko, but I got three kids out of that doe, sold the two girls, and the wether will be brought in to butcher soon. I really like the looks of them. It was my first year, and I didn't know about minerals. ...... But based on my own inexperienced opinion, all three kiko kids were hardy and healthy despite the lack of minerals, and I love the size of their rumps. When I get more does, I will probably ask my neighbor to use his buck again. I'm really impressed. They beat the odds.


I had to leave my herd for a year (not recommended!!!). They got water in the trough and round bales of hay dumped over the fence in the winter. Some minerals. Mostly fescue pasture. No deworming. None of them got sick/died. That is why I am partial to the Kiko.


----------

