# Burn or mow pastures to clear them in the spring?



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I usually leave my pastures intact for forage throughout the winter and have been burning them in the spring once the first growth starts. I had some pasture I hadn't had any grazing on and was simply burning it to keep the trees from growing.  Now that I have goats on it trees are no longer a concern. They get eaten before they can get any size to them.

I mowed part of the newly fenced pasture this spring but there were areas that were so thick it was overloading the mower. The clippings were beginning to pile up as well which made it worse. I decided to burn the rest, hoping to also kill weed seeds in the fire. I picked up a broken commercial grade mower this winter and repaired it during the off season.

Anyway, I am not sure this is the best way to go. I think mowing may be best as there are far fewer weeds that come back. I am trying to kill off some weeds and it seems they may have grown back more where I burned. 
If so, how many times should one mow them down per year? All the cuttings plus the goat droppings, etc. will be going back into the soil.

The new mower has no issues mowing pastures where the goats have been. I would gladly mow if this seems like the best option. I mowed all the pastures where goats have easy access without problems and the resulting growth seems much healthier and less weedy than where I burned. This might also be due to the goats having been present and fertilizing the area with their waste.

They also have access to lots of wooded and brushy areas as well but seem to alternate between grazing and browsing for some reason even with plenty of browse available to them right now.

Any opinions on burning vs. mowing?

Conor


----------



## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Burning is bad for the air, so I'd go with mowing. I just wonder if it's really going to prevent weeds from growing more so than plants you want. I would say that if there's a particular weed you don't like, refrain from mowing it till it's starting to bloom. At this point the plant has the most of its energy in the top of the plant & the least stored in the roots, so mowing will hurt it the most if it's blooming. Then it can't set seed either. If you mow too early the plant still has lots of energy in the roots to resprout, & will probably bloom lower down where it's harder to get all the flowers with the mower. If it's an annual weed it may not need much more, but with perennials it can still eventually kill the plant--you just have to make yourself leave them alone till they bloom, then mow them short. You can eventually exhaust & kill even many perennials doing this for a couple years.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I think my main problem is with perennials. I plan to leave what I see coming up (I know this is hard for me) from now on and spray with the Grazon when it is flowering which it does PROFUSELY. I pulled many of the 1st time sprouts after record breaking rain when the ground was soft so will hopefully reduce the growth. I also pulled some that was obviously coming back from last year and I know I didn't get the roots so it will come back.

I may use stronger and cheaper herbicides where the goats do not have access as well.

Conor


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have done some comparisons on my property and it looks like the mowed areas look a lot better and healthier than where I have burned in the past few years. With the goats eating it down and the new and better mower, I think I will be able to handle mowing it this coming spring. The grass is a lot denser and without the open spots that you see where I have burned. Weeds LOVE those open spots and that is where they get started. Healthy grass crowds them out so they can't get started.

I found a few areas of the horse nettle nightshade I have been fighting where I mowed but too many to count where I burned. I was hoping that burning would kill the seeds but I think it just made conditions more conducive for them to germinate. I see this is a native prairie plant after all and fire is a natural part of the prairie.

Conor


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

*Mow now or not?*

I am considering mowing some of my pastures in about a week and wanted to get an opinion. It looks like things are getting to where they are going to be flowering very soon. I wouldn't do this all at once and everything is growing well enough that the goats would have plenty to eat. I think this would help control some of the other weeds that have come up.

My concerns with this are that some of the "weeds" are actually a delicacy to the goats and don't really want to discourage them. The weeds I don't want are annuals that the goats do not like such as goat weed and some annual nightshade varieties.

Another concern is that I like to leave my pastures standing until the spring when growth first starts to appear in order to provide as much forage as possible. This greatly cut down on the hay I needed to purchase last year. I am not too worried about mowing now but I was considering mowing again in like a month. I don't want to destroy all my pasture and have none going into winter. I have a considerable amount of the annual nightshade and plan to mow the first time when it looks like it is in full bloom.

I have pulled up quite a bit of the horse nettle nightshade sprouts but this stuff is a totally different animal compared to the rest of the weeds. It is by far the worst one I have got growing here so know that I will have to return later to spray this one. This is a NASTY weed and very invasive so I doubt mowing will have too much of an impact on it.

One thing is for sure. No matter what I will be mowing next spring. Burning seems to have encouraged the weeds. Where I mowed looks practically like a lawn with lush thick grasses and few weeds.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I see that there are multiple plants called "goat weed". The one I have is https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/hogwort-woolly-croton

It really came up well where I burned but barely at all where I mowed.

Conor


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't seem to have the hogwort, thanks for that link.

I'm a fan of the mowing over burning option. Waiting for flowering makes sense, especially where I live. where flowering happens early.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Flowering is coming soon here. We had a warm late winter so EVERYTHING is coming early.

Anyway, I think the mowing is better than the burning. I still have bare soil with weeds in some areas I burned while the mowed areas look great.

Conor


----------



## Karen (Jun 22, 2010)

Mowing when the plant is flowering will spread the seeds further! You wanna mow BEFORE it blossoms! Perhaps your county extension service will have ideas to help you get rid of the invasive nightshade species ... it is in everyone's interest to get it gone! Where do you live?


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If it is flowering, there have been no seeds made yet. Flowering is the height of the strength of the plant, so flowering is the best time to mow. It can not spread seeds the plant has not yet made....


----------



## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Yes, it's best to get it as soon as the buds are beginning to open, or seeds will be spread! It's really hard with grasses as their "flowers" are hard to observe. Better to mow them too early than too late!

I'm glad you decided to mow instead of burn--you lose nutrients by burning (they go up in smoke, or wash off the bare ground) while the nutrients can return to the soil if you mow, & the soil stays covered & protected.

Karen is right, try the county extension/ag office. What you have here is really a plant problem, not a goat problem. You'll get the best advice from local plant people.


----------



## Steampunked (Mar 23, 2015)

Burning only works to refresh areas that are ecologically designed for burning - slash and burn agriculture in jungles and many plains is usually very short term fertility, but in Australian forests it works really well. 

In other places it will encourage weeds - weeds are the first stage colonisation of the land back on damaged ground. They have seed that spreads far, and survive well.

If you are hand mowing, you could use a pesticide wand to just hit the pernicious and dangerous weeds right when they have been injured, which might help. Or even do one lot by machine, then go back and wand by hand.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

*I see from experience that mowing is better!*

I had to walk out in one of the mowed pastures and it is so thick and healthy with grass that you can barely get through it. There is no bare soil that I can see. The grass is extremely healthy. I burned some of these areas and had some weed issues their as well last year. I pulled a few weeds by hand but overall things look great

The burned areas have plenty of bare spots, especially localized areas that are really bad. There is no comparison between the two pastures. It is probably a good idea where pastures are really brushy to get them into a mowable condition but for a normal pasture it isn't a good idea.

I talked the the extension office and they suggest the GrazonNext HL that I have been using so will keep using this. I still plan to hand wand the weeds with this as SOME weeds are not too bad. The goats love some of them as well so will leave them. I do plan to take on other invasives like multifloral rose even though the goats eat them. The goats are actually part of my management plan for this one but I also plant to finish it off with some chemical warfare.

This IS a goat problem to me as the pastures are the main source of food for my goats. Toxic inedible weeds are a goat problem. My plan from now on is to pull the first time sprouts of the horse nettle nightshade and spray the more established plants as you can tell the difference. I will mow down the annual weeds before they can generate seeds. I am glad this other dark or black nightshade or whatever is a lot easier to manage and that mowing will do a number on it.

Conor


----------



## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

In some parts of Australia like here our spring is hot and very dry leading up to the wet season in summer. It's really dangerous to burn and you have to get permits to do so. Our neighbor has cattle and burns to promote green grass for them the trouble is he also just lets the fire go and not keep an eye on it so it burns parts of our property too. One year it was so dry and windy his fire had gotten away from him burning 90% of our property and our other neighbors as well and we spent the next 3 days and some of the night putting it out Along with the bush fire brigade . Lucky we have a fire break around our house and yards.We have 550 acres. The goats and sheep had nothing left to eat so I had to buy in very expensive hay,expensive at that time of year. Every year he burns and breathing in that smoke is horrendous . He is now a bit more carefull about controlling his fires. The other bad side is it weakens the large gum trees and they die or fall over,his pasture is always full of weeds the cattle don't eat and it just spreads everywhere ,and the grass doesn't have a chance to grow.Teejae


----------



## SeventeenFarms (Dec 10, 2013)

Seeds cannot form unless the flower is pollinated by bees, wind, etc. I have let weeds I have flower but then cut them down when seeds begin to form, so that they use energy but have no viable seed. 
I have a problem with spraying any flower with any pesticide due to directly or indirectly harming pollinators, whether it a weed or not. Thats not good at all. Please dont spray flowers.
Best results with herbicides are when you spray the plant when it is small, or just beginning to grow out of dormancy. The other best scenario is in the early fall, when the plant is beginning to store up energy. Both these times the plant will take in herbicide easily and distribute it through the plant, getting better results. Waiting until the plant is mature and huge takes a lot bigger dose, or more doses, to get the kill, if at all.
I have no comment on burning as it isn't allowed where I live, and have never done it. I do know that seeds can tolerate burn as well as freeze - nature doesn't make things to parish easily. Seeds are tough.
I personally don't spray anything at my place although I am a licensed applicator in my state and use herbicides (sparingly) where I work. At home, I try to manage the good grasses and over time it has been ok. If I get a weed I cannot tolerate, I learn everything about it that makes it grow and then do the opposite culturally. I am not weed free, but I am not too bad either. I guess I have an acceptable balance.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have noticed several things over the past few days.

1. The areas between were I burned and mowed show no comparison. The mowed areas are lush and have no sparse spots. The burned areas have plenty of weeds and bare spots.
2. It seems the cycles of warm weather with sun alternating with rain have made conditions for any remaining seeds ideal for germination. I can walk my pastures every couple days and find more of the horse nettle I am trying to get rid of. I am continuing to pull it, hoping to run it out of energy stored in the roots.
3. New sprouts seem to have to grow taller rather than wider to get to the sun. The stem is spindly and the root isn't developed well yet so just pulls right out. I figure one pull of this type of plant will end it.
4. Established plants from last year are thicker and tougher to pull, likely leaving some root in place.
5. I can tell where I sprayed the GrazonNext HL heavily last year as I spot-treated many of these plants. This weed comes up but is very weak and yellowed looking. I pull these and figure that resprouting is its last gasp to try and grow again. Pulling it might finish it off or prevent the Grazon from finishing it off. I don't know.
6. Mowing in some areas seems to have encouraged the new sprouting. I removed all the top vegetation blocking the sun so once this was gone, the new plants really took off. Like the others, I just pulled them and will see what happens.

It looks like the other weeds I am concerned about are not to the flowering stage yet. I was wondering if maybe I should wait as long as possible to try and eliminate all the horse nettle I have pulled before mowing. How long can this stuff remain dormant and how long can sprouted plants fresh from seed stay alive without good light? I could tell that the plants that had to grow tall quickly were a lot easier to pull so was wondering if they would run out of energy and possibly die if I don't mow until I have to.

It looks like the seeds can remain dormant for over a year but I think the conditions here will have allowed all of them to germinate. I know there is probably going to be some ongoing maintenance of this for the next couple years at least but figure I am going to get most of it knocked out by the end of this year.

I am also considering pulling it until I mow, then allow anything else that is left to flower, and then spray.

Conor


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Don't spray the flowers. They are no longer growing at that point, so it does no good, and as the above post says, spraying flowers kills the pollinators (which are having a really rough time of it as it is.)

I admire your dedication to not seeking only an easy, expedient answer. You are seeking the effective answer and ready to work for a year or 2 to get it done right. That is so admirable.

Spot spray when the plant is growing fast, pull what you can, keep it mowed or pulled when it flowers. It is a big push, but if you persevere, it will be easier next year, and even easier the year after.

Thank you for this thread. Because of you I spent a long day yesterday getting this awful plant out of my pens and back yard.

Keep on keeping on. And don't spray the flowers. I repeat, it will do no good and will do harm.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, I won't worry about the flowers with the spray but I do pick and burn any of the fruit I might find in a hot fire. Remember this awful plant doesn't go right from flower to seed pod. It gets a fruit that may hang on the vine for several months and has to ripen to a pumpkin orange so there is time to deal with this.

I also have some black nightshade which has an eggplant colored berry. This doesn't appear to be near as invasive or toxic (some people eat it) as the horse nettle but my main plan is to time mowing with the flowers opening. I don't see any jsut yet and hope the weather cooperates.

I also have a nightshade that looks like a fuzzy instead of thorny horse nettle. It is really easy to pull up and not all that invasive but has a fruit that looks like a tomatillo. I do not know what this is called but I know it is a nightshade based on the characteristics. I do pull this anyway as it tends to grow where I always find the horse nettle so I use it as a marker where I have pulled or not. It shows up very well with the white fuzz all over. Once pulled I know I have been in that area. The seeds to resprout so I randomly walk the pastures but I figure most will have sprouted soon so will be dealing with existing or new sprouts I missed soon. 

There are some morning glory which I know is nightshade as well so will hopefully get that eliminated with the mowing when it starts to flower.

Then there are things most people would call "weeds" but the goats eat like they are a salad bar. I pretty much don't consider these weeds as the goats like them and prefer them to regular grass. I would rather not harm them but I know there will be collateral damage in fighting the others. One exception to this is the multifloral rose. Goats eat this and I use them as a means of controlling it but still want this plant gone.

Conor


----------



## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

The fuzzy nightshade with tomatillo husks sounds a lot like something called Poha Berry. The fruit inside the husks of Poha Berry is edible--it's yellow & Okay-ish tasting. But I don't know of any plant in the nightshade family that has edible foliage so probably best to get rid of it too. Good luck in your fight!


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I looked it up online and the Poha Berry looks a lot like what I am seeing. I guess this one is also on my bad list.

My parents gave up on growing their own tomato plants because the deer ate them down to nothing repeatedly. Apparently they can eat them and not die. I assume the foliage is toxic as with the other nightshades such as potatoes.

Conor


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

My goats also got to a bunch of my pepper plants once and decimated them so they must have been pretty tasty as well. Those are also in the nightshade family.

Conor


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I mowed two of my main pastures yesterday and today. There is another one across a creek that is harder to access. I left a riding mower over on that side and probably will leave it there for the entire season and move it back over once I am done mowing. It has been having flat tire issues. When it was easy to access, I simply filled them up before each use and that was enough. I got the two problem tires fixed with tubes today and plan to mow that side as soon as I have time and the weather is dry enough.

I am pretty much eliminating burning as part of my pasture management. How often should I mow? I will have plenty during the growing season for the goats but like to leave some standing and then mow what the goats haven't eaten at first growth in the spring. Should I mow again in a month and then let it go until next spring?

Conor


----------

