# Very Lethargic Pregnant Doe - NOW



## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a 3rd season doe who we just brought in from a snow storm. It's a wet snow, around 25-28* all day, and we aren't sure how long she was down. She was at normal feeding this morning, but that was the last we saw her before leaving for work. She is very, very lethargic and refused to get up and walk to the barn. She is responding to some things. Licked at the NutriDrench lifts her head for grain. Stuck her lips in the luke warm water, but didn't suck hard to drink. Right now we are just trying to warm her up and bring some liveliness back to her eyes. She's rather glazed over and doesn't really look around much. So far we can still feel baby movement. She is due any time, but haven't really checked for any sign of labor yet as she is still under a mound of warm towels from the dryer. Any other suggestions would be really helpful! This is after vet hours and we are now on a No Unnecessary Travel restriction. Not sure our vet would be able to meet us in town. We expect some clearing tomorrow morning late, so we just need to get her stable here tonight.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Do you have any calcium drench? And Thiamine? CMPK?
Another thing you can do is give her hot coffee, molasses & whisky all mixed in thirds. By the time you get it to her the coffee part wont be hot.
For 150 lbs I give about 5cc.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Based on your info these are the things I would do without seeing her.

I would bring her into the house (kitchen)
I would continue warming her up with heating pads and warm towels
I would not give grain/feed till warmed up.
I would give her 6 cc of VitB SQ
I would get some warm water mixed with nutridrench and put into syringe and try to slowly get her to swallow some


After that I would re-evaluate and go from there.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Take her temp...if its low then get a heat lamp over her and continue to warm her up
I would give a hefty dose of b complex, cd antitoxin and continue the nutra drench ...Calcium if you have it..tums in a pinch...Low temp can mean rumen is shutting down..
Add molasses to warm water to encourage her to drink more..
If her temp is high...begin antibiotics...suspect Upper resp. infection..Tylan 200 or LA 200 for OTC or Nuflor if you have it is better..and Banamine 
iwouldnt give feed right now..offer grass hay


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

So far she is still cool, haven't taken rectal temp yet. She responds to the straight nutria-drench, as that is what we have right now. We just took a trip to Murdochs and bought a bunch more meds for the arsenal, but not sure what we have past the drench right now. Will get on the coffee, whiskey, molasses mixture (but I think out of molasses, I'm anemic and use it a lot), the drench will have to do. She responds to stimulating the gums and tongue and will pull away. She doesn't want to move her limbs right now, but she has pulled away as we check her vulva. We hear rumen movement but very sporatic at this time. Will update in a bit. Need to throw fresh blankets from the dryer on her. Husband reports she is contracting now and again, but not sure if it is labor or uncomfort from thawing. Reports about every 2min. She is in our living room right now. Kitchen not big enough...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like you are on top of it...might have babies tonight..try to get a temp..this way you know what you are dealing with..high or low temp..keep up the nutra drench..: )


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

We are going to let her lay for awhile and just be calm around her. BTW she is Lamancha bred to Boer. Her last pregnancy was not with us, so I don't know her kidding experience, but I do know it was with a Nigerian Dwarf since we have the wether from that set of twins. Cute little thing... wish it wasn't wethered. She is quite puffy in the vulva so we are going to have to move a few things out of the kitchen if she is going to labor and give birth in the house. I never would have thought I would be bringing in a full size goat to give birth in my house in a million years. We bring the bummer lambs in all the time, but not full size animals.  Going to go eat my pizza now that it's cold. I had just taken it out of the oven when this all began.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol...grab the shower curtain!!! lol..good luck..
BTW we have Lamancha that we bred to boer before we got a buck..they did fine : )


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## BitterFarm (Mar 16, 2013)

I never would have thought I would be bringing in a full size goat to give birth in my house in a million years. 

Ah, the things we do for love. Lol. After you guys get through this bump in the road she's gonna want to start sharing the bed.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

happybleats said:


> lol...grab the shower curtain!!! lol..good luck..


LOL... we do have her on a couple old sleeping bags. We want to pull the carpet up and put laminate down anyways, so if this gets messy it's just more an excuse to get it done sooner than later. LOL


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

How often should we be giving her the nutri drench mixture? She is warm now through all but the pastern/hoof areas... can't find our rectal thermometer, grrrrr. I still get subtle responses from her and I think she is so "tight" from labor. I just wish she was a bit more fidgety and not just lay there star gazing. She will ever so slightly adjust if we make her uncomfortable but other wise she just lays there with an occasional grunt/slight shudder.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

her legs could be cold from lack of movement ...instructions say 1 oz (30cc)per 100# every 8 hours...I would give her 4 pumps (aprox 4 cc) every hour...Do you have tums or calcium?? she would also do well with some thiamine..when the rumen shuts or slows down for any reason she cannot make her own B1( thiamine) she needs 1 cc per 25 pounds or a large dose of Fortified B complex in a pinch..try to get her up...make her stand ..if she can not then you need to roll her...off one side to the other ..don't let her stay in one place too long..you maybe dealing with more than labor...a temp would be really good...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You can use honey or syrup in the coffee whiskey mixture as well. It will bring the blood to the surface of her skin. Do you have any kind of B vitamins at all? Even beer?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> she would also do well with some thiamine..when the rumen shuts or slows down for any reason she cannot make her own B1( thiamine) she needs 1 cc per 25 pounds or a large dose of Fortified B complex in a pinch...


That seems like a scary dose of thiamine. Is that for 500mg thiamine?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its actually 4 1/2 cc per 100 pounds of 100 MG thiamine.. but we go 1 per 25 so if you are dealing with young goats or smaller breeds...Thiamine is safe to give..cannot over dose. Goats will pee out what they dont need..: ) 500 mg of Thiamine should be given at the rate of 1 cc per 100# 
Glad you asked..I never thought to put 100 or 500 mg....I always use the 100 mg.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

She's upright but not on her feet. She bleated real loud a moment ago. Holding her head and drinking, but not greedily. She's acting exhausted now. Like "Don't move me! I just want to lie here." Eyes are much more active. Nosing and sampling the alfalfa hay.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a Multi B Complex lozenge pill. How should I prepare that for her?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats good..sounds more alert..


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

You can useKaro Syrupinstead of Molasses.
keep making sure she isdri king. Are you giving her hay? I know she is in the house. 
Keep up the good work. Keep us posted


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> its actually 4 1/2 cc per 100 pounds of 100 MG thiamine.. but we go 1 per 25 so if you are dealing with young goats or smaller breeds...Thiamine is safe to give..cannot over dose. Goats will pee out what they dont need..: ) 500 mg of Thiamine should be given at the rate of 1 cc per 100#
> Glad you asked..I never thought to put 100 or 500 mg....I always use the 100 mg.


That is how much I give of the 500mg. Actually, I generically give 2cc to any adultish size goat. So we are on the same page there. Fortified B Complex usually has 100mg of thiamine/ml in it. I'm not saying they are right for *sure*, since I have never tried it, but I have had two top notch Boer breeders tell me you can euthanize a goat with thiamine. I never asked how much it took. In both cases they were just warning me to be careful with it. I do believe it leaves the system fast and if indicated, should be given several times a day at the safe dose. Just what I've been told.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

She didn't eat much, but it is within her reach. She acknowledged it, nibbled and when back to "don't want to move, I want to be as still as possible" mode, but she is still in her upright laying down position with her legs tucked in. Hay will vacuum, we obviously don't have high end carpet and furnishing with her being in the house.

I do have plenty of Karo... but isn't the nutridrench providing that right now, or should I double the effort with Karo. Her water has a bit of nutridrench laced in it too. Calcium... I found a multivitamin pack, it's actually one mineral I don't really have around handy. Being anemic I have plenty of B Complex "human" vitamins, iron and VitC, but I don't take a calcium supplement because it cancels out the iron. The multi vitamin pack I found has two calcium tablets in them. Should I just dissolve it in her water and hope she gets some? I might be able to grind a paste I can stick in her mouth to swallow. Thoughts?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tennacross: That is worth looking into...my vet always said its water soluble and hard to over dose if at all..but i think that warrants a look in to : )


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## Goatgirl21 (Jan 25, 2013)

emacmommy said:


> We are going to let her lay for awhile and just be calm around her. BTW she is Lamancha bred to Boer. Her last pregnancy was not with us, so I don't know her kidding experience, but I do know it was with a Nigerian Dwarf since we have the wether from that set of twins. Cute little thing... wish it wasn't wethered. She is quite puffy in the vulva so we are going to have to move a few things out of the kitchen if she is going to labor and give birth in the house. I never would have thought I would be bringing in a full size goat to give birth in my house in a million years. We bring the bummer lambs in all the time, but not full size animals.  Going to go eat my pizza now that it's cold. I had just taken it out of the oven when this all began.


I have boer/lamancha crosses, love them. Hope she pulls thro


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

My husband is staying up for a bit longer, but I'm going to bed. Excellent rumen activity just now. Ate all her little bit of alfalfa hay, not as interested in the water but rumen active enough to produce cud!!! Yeah! Feel baby movements too! Still not up but she isn't droopy and flat to the floor anymore. No school for my own kiddios tomorrow as we are rural and I'm sure there will be no rural buses. Hopefully they will get to experience the miracle of birth! She will go on the porch with the ram lamb if she hasn't kidded by morning. The porch is our addition we added for the washer, dryer, two freezers, and separate room cold storage room/pantry. The shelter just isn't going to cut it out in this blizzard storm. Gnite!


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

She is eating very willingly this morning, but we still have her in the house and covered with blankets. Drank willingly too. Going to move her onto the porch with Dudsy (ram lamb) this morning. I will call the vet to get all the mineral supplements/injections we should be giving her to help her recover. We will also see what he says about the length of her pre labor and if he thinks we should do anything to help it along. Thanks for all the help to get us through the night. My kids don't have school, but there is school in town today, even though all but one other school district is closed around us. I tell you it's crazy! We have a three foot drift in front of the house so entry is easiest through the back door. I will update as we make progress! Thanks again.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad she is doing better...


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

We may be on to something... starting to finally see a white plug emerge and man the baby(ies) are moving. She still will not stand through this whole process but she is sitting up, sampling her hay frequently, drinking and enjoying her baking soda. Rumen functioning and expelling proper. 

Finally got her temp... 103.3 normal enough.

She sure is quiet through this process. Alert, acknowledges us, gave her a few corn chips to nibble as a treat, really to see if she would rise for the treats. Barely a peep or a grunt.

Fingers crossed for before bedtime... Husband is bringing meds from town when he done working so we will have oxytocin (?, not sure I'm remembering that right) in case her labor stays "lazy" and we need to speed it along. Also bringing B12 shot and Bo-SE. I hope the little booger(s) is positioned okay since she has been laying down this whole time.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

If you are getting stuff from the vet, make sure to add calcium (CMPK or the like) to the list. That is something you should always have on hand just in case. She must have had a reason to go down to begin with and it's usually calcium at this stage of the pregnancy game. I would give her calcium just to make sure.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If your husband is picking up Oxi from a vet..might have him get you Thiamine as well..she may need it..are you able to get her up at all? I would try ..see how weak she is, or at least turn her on her other side....she also may need calcium which can be found at tractor supply....Molasses ..Karo syrup..anything to give her a sugar boost. Im concerned about pregnancy Toxemia...with her being down ...inactive...P.T. could be why..better to prepare just in case : ) 
here is an article to help you know what to look for and what is needed in case of : ) Happy Kidding...my prayers are being sent : )
http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_Ketosis or Pregnancy Toxemia in the Doe.pdf


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Never use Oxy when the cervix is still closed. It can rupture the uterus. Make sure to get detailed instructions.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hows your Doe doing this morning?


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## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

I hope this doesn't sound stupid but did you check her eye color for anemia? How is she doing?


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

Busy day, so not much posting. I'm starting an addition to my current business (I coach gymnastics) and we are currently adding an academic preschool and the framing for the walls passed inspection today and drywall went up. Not enough time to sit and post much.

Yaya is about the same, but some progress with prelabor. She is presenting some "goo" so she has been "working down there". Still huge resistance to getting up. She will push and pull away from us, adjust her laydown position with her back legs, but she refuses to be on her feet. She's pretty darn big for one person to just heft her to her feet, but the times my husband and I have lifted her she has feet flailing, but will not stand.

No one has a calcium drench in town, but I did manage to find some liquid gel calcium supplements at our local pharmacy. I have to squeeze the pill but she will take it on a handful of grain. It is 1200mg, so how much and how often should I be supplementing? 

As she has had a full active rumen for over 24hrs now I'm treating her with a bit of grain now and again with free choice of as much alfalfa hay as she wants. Actually alfalfa/grass combo. She's tired of the nutridrench, so I can't lace it in her water anymore or she won't drink, I have to force it. She loves her baking soda mineral. I also found B1 (Thiamin) and Selenium at the pharmacy to grind up and make a paste from. I probably could have found Selenium at our feed store since we are a low selenium area, but I was at the pharmacy today. My vet does have Thiamin injectable and we have an injectable BComplex. I haven't set a schedule for all these supplements. Any suggestions? So far she has only had one generous dose of it all, the past days has just been hit and miss with occasional doses of what I had laying around. Now I have it all in front me.

I do have oxytosin in case she is lazy during or after birth. When should I maybe consider moving this along even more and asking the vet about inducing and getting that cervix to open up more? What method do you guys suggest I ask my veterinarian about inducing with?

What is everyone's opinion on preemptive penicillin since she has been down and inside for so long? I worry about pneumonia. She doesn't seem overly snotty, but she really hasn't had much fresh air days... too cold to just let our door stay open... maybe tomorrow though. I am washing her bedding daily... a pain!

She isn't any worse... but she isn't any better either. She's quiet through it all, often inquisitive, but even more often stargazing.

In a nutshell, slow progress.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

Baby!!!! So far... Not done with it quite yet, but the nose sticking out. Been about 4 minutes with just the nose out... babies tongue hanging out. Mama's been tossing and turning and not staying on one side. Baby's face has been squished a time or two. Hubby is massaging vulva to help with stretching... Please say a live birth after all these few days of pampering this queenie goat. 

Head presenting awesome... but can't feel hoofs.


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

Awe... my post didn't post! We got a live one, with hubby's assistance! It was one hoof back. Beautiful little elf ear lamancha/boer cross. Pretty sure there is another in there. Mama tired, but looking after her little one and cleaning it off. Yeah!


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

Twins... daddy had to pull the 2nd one out... it's the biggest. First is a little doeling. She is hungry because mama hasn't stood to nurse. Giving it a just a bit more time before we introduce them to a nanny we have waiting who lost her kids a couple weeks ago to the 1st snow storm. Yaya is spent, but will eat grain and take a sip of water. She isn't cleaning the second as vigourously as the first. We will milk her colostrum for the babes and home the nanny paring works with Zela. Otherwise we have two little bottle babes. Here to hoping.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Congrats!!! I hope Yaya improves now that she's got those babies out!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow,,congrats...I just read all your post...started to panic then BAM babies : ) yahooo...keep up with moms treatment..I would give the thiaimine...if it 100mg give her 1 cc per 25 pounds if its the 500mg give 1 cc per 100 pounds...every 6 hours...B complex is an awesome support for her...I would give her that too....Nutra drench is important until she can move easily with out weakness...
make sure she has fresh water and hay.a little feed will be ok to start with...lots of fresh green leaves if your trees have begun to bloom....again...congrats...


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

happybleats said:


> lots of fresh green leaves if your trees have begun to bloom


We live in Wyoming and there is over a foot of snow left to melt off.... trees with leaves... or any trees at all, ya right! Anyhow, we gave a shot of BComplex right after pulling the second baby, a buckling, also with elf ears! So now we have Kizzy (doeling) and Butter (buckling). Leave it to a 9 yr old to name the boy.

Yaya is not up. She continues to lay there and we did administer the oxytosin before pulling Butter. He was considerable bigger and not positioned to deliver. She is thin looking now, but I still see contractions, she's just "not all there". She is laying flat, not holding herself up, but has had about 1/2 cup grain with Karo syrup, been drenched with nutridrench, had the BComplex injection, a bite of hay. She has pooped but no luck getting her water. My boys are staying home from school with the hubby, but I have classes to teach at the gym this morning. We will update when I return to take a nap.

We did milk Yaya's colostrum but only got about 1/4 cup if that for the two to share. Our Zella is not letting the babies nurse off her, we will keep trying. Right now they are doing well enough with each other.

Will post when I get home.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yaya needs calcium...tractor supply carries a drench...have your husband prop her up with a rolled blanket get her off her side... Take her temp...if she is sub she is in trouble..need to warm her up and get more tums in her at the very least..try to find the calcium or call a vet......wishing all the best....
I love the babies names..: )


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

We do not have a Tractors Supply. Murdochs is the closest and they don't carry a drench either. Neither does our veterinarian. I have calcium gel caps that I have been squeezing on her grain. Last temp was still normal!
I will call my 16 year old have her propped up again.

She is making progress on her placenta! It was 1/4 the way out when I left. So she may be laying there but she is making it work.


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

Congrats on the babies. I agree, you need to get calcium into mom as soon as possible. If you don't have a tractor supply, try local feed or livestock stores. I'm fortunate enough to live in a dairy town, and the livestock stores carry it in large amounts. In the meantime, I'd have your husband break up several of the capsules you said you had, mix it with molasas or karo syrup and get it in her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes, I agree..get more calcium in her, its good you have those on hand : ) ...from what I heard..babies nursing help get the after birth out faster....maybe if you message her udder and milk her out this will help stimulate the uterus and get that after birth out..
keep up the good work..


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## emacmommy (Apr 17, 2013)

SCRMG said:


> If you don't have a tractor supply, try local feed or livestock stores.


We have one two feed stores in town. Neither have calcium drench. The closest larger town is 50 miles away, that is where Murdoch's is and they don't have a calcium drench. There are two other feed stores in Casper, I will call. We planned on going to pick up our chicks anyways. We will call around and hope someone... vet, store, etc. has calcium drench.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like a good plan..if no one carries it buy more calcium gel cap and keep using them..keep up with the 50/50 molasses water drenches and offer alfalfa since its rich in calcium..


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Do you have Molasses? Give mom some warm/hot molasses water; make the water a strong tea color. I am sure she needs some energy after all that. It is amazing how they perk up after getting that. I give it to my girls as long as they want it, some only want it for that day, others for a week.


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