# Mom's milk drying up after 5 days?



## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

My pygmy goat kidded on early Sunday morning, and her milk has started drying up. She rejected one of the babies, so we are bottle-feeding it, and she was making milk just fine.

Last night, not only were her teats depleted, but her udder seems to have shrunk considerably. She had access to a good bit of hay, so I've taken that out of there and she eats grains and feed, plenty of access to loose minerals and fresh water. I am getting some alfalfa for her today. 

She is taking really good care of the unrejected baby. I just have no idea why she would suddenly be making SO much less milk. There's still milk in her udder, but it isn't letting down, and like I said, the udder is much smaller than it was before. 

The small amount of milk I am able to get from her looks good. No clots, no blood, good color, so I don't suspect mastitis.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you supplement copper and selenium beyond the loose mineral?


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

If she does not have a problem I would just enjoy two bottle babies For sure they will be fun and full of cuteness!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Any chance her water froze the night before or something like that? Dehydration can really tank production, short term.

I would offer a bucket of warm flavored water (use kool-aid, gatorade, Tang, Karo - whatever. Something sweet or fruity) in addition to the plain water and see if you can increase in intake.

How much grain is she eating per day? She definitely still needs hay so don't remove it completely, it's imperative to keep the rumen active.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

If I read this right you removed the hay?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, make sure she gets water.
Alfalfa and some grain.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Do you supplement copper and selenium beyond the loose mineral?


Not beyond the loose stuff. I got some nutra drench for her. No copper in that tho. Her feed has copper, but I know it's probably not enough.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> Any chance her water froze the night before or something like that? Dehydration can really tank production, short term.
> 
> I would offer a bucket of warm flavored water (use kool-aid, gatorade, Tang, Karo - whatever. Something sweet or fruity) in addition to the plain water and see if you can increase in intake.
> 
> How much grain is she eating per day? She definitely still needs hay so don't remove it completely, it's imperative to keep the rumen active.


No chance of freezing, but I haven't tried flavoring it to get her to drink more, so I'll definitely try that.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

lovinglife said:


> If I read this right you removed the hay?


It wasn't good quality stuff. Just got some alfalfa.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Copper and selenium deficiency is definitely a possibility. Very few farms can rely on loose mineral alone.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Copper and selenium deficiency is definitely a possibility. Very few farms can rely on loose mineral alone.


have you used the gel and does it work well for selenium? do you use a bolus to supplement copper?


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Copper and selenium deficiency is definitely a possibility. Very few farms can rely on loose mineral alone.


I've looked on the map and we are definitely in a selenium deficient zone.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The copper bolus works great. I use BoSe so can't say on the gel.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Replamin Plus oral paste contains much higher selenium than the regular Selenium/Vit E gel.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

I'll order some asap.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Replamin Plus is given weekly with an initial 5 day loader dose. 5cc for full size adult goats.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> Replamin Plus oral paste contains much higher selenium than the regular Selenium/Vit E gel.


would it be enough to satisfy their needs alone?


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

This happened to my new mamma too. I fed her more alfalfa and milked her a few times a day. Her milk came back in and she did great with her baby. Def try adding some molasses to her water and I don't know how much grain your giving her but don't give to,much. I believe the alfalfa helped my mamma alot. Good luck


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

forkedpath said:


> would it be enough to satisfy their needs alone?


You should still offer loose minerals when using Replamin Plus since you might be seeing signs of deficiency. Post some photos of your goats, we can take a look.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

It's raining cats and dogs here at the moment but I'm posting a pic taken about a week before she had her kids, one baby died, one is being bottle fed because she rejected him, and the third seems fine.







until the night before last, her udder still looked like this. The deficiency is showing in the kids more than her. I didn't suspect her to be deficient at all until the birth and now the milk problem. I'll go down to the pen and post an after shot when the weather lets up.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Good hay, good water, quality minerals are the trifecta of goat health. What brand/formulation of minerals are you giving? Some are truly terrible.

She also need grain that does not have much molasses in it.

When you took away one of her kids (because she would not care for it so not criticizing) then you took away part of the demand. At first the mom makes quite a bit so that she can feed everyone. Very shortly (in mere days) the supply settles to fit the demand. You are milking, but that is not as much as the baby would have taken. It is entirely possible that one thing that is happening is that the supply is matching her body's perception of demand and she wont drop much more from now on. Also, her other baby is going to be drinking much more now, drastically more, so if all you are doing is taking what is left, there will be less and less.

By all means, fix what is missing in her diet, and then also consider milking her more often to simulate another baby drinking and demanding more.

Good luck.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

I definitely wondered about her body settling into a new rhythm with the other one gone. We use Redmond brand red edge goat mineral mix. Used to use manna pro. Thank you for your advice!


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Their milk supply will regulate after a few days, with less milk demand from one kid she will produce less milk. As long as the remaining kid on her seems happy and getting enough to eat there likely isn't a problem. I have several does that have huge udders when they kid and within a week the size has decreased a lot. 
She should have access to hay at all times, their stomachs need the long stem forage.​


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Yes, she has alfalfa now. I just took the crappy stuff out of there because she seemed to be eating it like potato chips and ignoring her grains and minerals. She seems more selective now that her only option is more like "health food".


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Red Edge is a great source of SALT. Do you have access to loose cattle minerals?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

We can give suggestions if you'd like them.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This one is similar to but better than Manna Pro, which is inadequate. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-6-phosphorus-cattle-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

This one is better. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...all-season-cattle-minerals-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

This one is one of my favorites https://powellfeedstores.com/catalog/product/90965/right-now-reg-onyx-cattle-mineral-supplement

All of the above are available nationally

National brand/formulation for goats that is excellent... http://www.sweetlix.com/products/C14A34/meat-maker-products.aspx You want the 16-8 loose mineral

There is another national brand that is excellent, but I can't find it right now.

The Redmond Red Edge is a wonderful source of salt, as I said. I'll be using it myself this Summer, but in addition to my loose minerals


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Yes, please! I only got that brand because of another suggestion, but I guess that was one I just should have nodded politely at, eh?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If you mean the Red Edge, I am in favour of goats having it. Best salt for goats imo. I'm very impressed you are that kind of goat owner. 

If you mean the Manna Pro, yes. Best to smile and nod and resolve to yourself to step in and offer help for deficiencies that will crop up later.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

I did indeed mean the Red Edge, I'll be sure to tell my friend their suggestion was appreciated. 

Do you mind if I ask, why is so important during summer as opposed to the rest of the year?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I would weigh the remaining kid that's being dam raised for 3 or 5 days in a row to make sure it is gaining and then you will know she is producing enough!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It is my climate. I have long steamy summers. 

Salt acts as an attractant and as a limiter. They come to the minerals to get salt, but when they are done with the salt they stop. So if a mineral mix is very high in salt, then my goats may stop before they get enough minerals. But here where I live, they need extra salt in the summer, so I make certain that salt isn't just salt, but is also attached to minerals. I also through the year offer kelp free choice, salt and iodine source. 

Someone I really respect here offers a Redmond block instead of Kelp. Someone else offers a high selenium salt instead of kelp. And still someone else makes certain everyone knows about cobalt salt blocks. But you notice this is not the only source of minerals for their herds.

Manna Pro has no iodine, so it is important for people who use it to be certain they have separate iodized salt for them to lick. It is one of many failings of that very popular mineral mix. Iodine is vital, And you can't depend on Replamin Plus to supply it, like it will supply everything else Manna Pro is missing, because it has no iodine either.

So, that is why I provide extra salt in the summer not the winter, they already get enough salt in the winter.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> I would weigh the remaining kid that's being dam raised for 3 or 5 days in a row to make sure it is gaining and then you will know she is producing enough!


Will do!


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Salt acts as an attractant and as a limiter. They come to the minerals to get salt, but when they are done with the salt they stop. So if a mineral mix is very high in salt, then my goats may stop before they get enough minerals. But here where I live, they need extra salt in the summer, so I make certain that salt isn't just salt, but is also attached to minerals. I also through the year offer kelp free choice, salt and iodine source.
> 
> So, that is why I provide extra salt in the summer not the winter, they already get enough salt in the winter.


great to know, and so well put! i had honestly never thought of it like that. i just assumed they had some sort of awesome goat sense that lured em to it...the way some people are drawn to eat clay  but nope, they just want that salt! so what we're really doing is kinda tricking them into getting what they need...?

I really like the look of that sweetlix mineral you suggested.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

forkedpath said:


> so what we're really doing is kinda tricking them into getting what they need...?


Not exactly. They do want to eat what they need, but even then it needs to be palatable....

If you make a really super duper nutritious soup. Man, you've got every super food in there, and you even throw in some super fads in there too, just to be safe (in case there is something to all that hype, you understand) and then double the volume by pouring in salt, how much of that final product are you going to willingly eat??? If you are unable to get any other nutrients, you'll force yourself to take a few mouthfuls, but then you'll have to stop. All that nutrition will be sitting there, just waiting for you, mocking you.

Some things just plain taste nasty by themselves. Ammonium Chloride for instance, or lo-sodium canned okra. You can't force me to eat canned okra all by itself. Try to make me, I dare you. It'll be one heckuva fight. You can't get a wether to take it's AC. Not without one heckuva fight. We need SOME palatability...


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

LOL! gotcha


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

These goats are getting minerals as the lick up the salt.






So figuring out the diet, and increasing your demand by more frequent milking, should help everything.

Good luck, they are so adorable.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

They sure are. I hate she pushed the little buck away, but she just pushed him right into my arms, so there's an upshot. He doesn't seem too upset about it either.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

SQUEAL!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Awwwww


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Adorable.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

forkedpath said:


> Will do!


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

The little male is considerably behind his sister as to weight, but we're working on that. We keep him in this kennel (in the rear of the pic) during the day so he's still exposed to mom, but not vulnerable. At nights for now he stays in the house with us.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Also here's a pic of mom and dad. She wandered up from the pen just to torment him, I think. He promptly got himself wrapped around his tether.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't let them breed. She could get pregnant right away.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Oh I know! That's why he's tethered to a telephone pole and she only comes out of the pen when I'm around!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So.... He is ALWAYS tethered to that pole?


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Of course not! ☹


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

He follows me around the farm and forages while I work.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh. OK. I thought I was reading that wrong.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

He's only tethered when she's out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They are nice.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Her milk seems to be back where it needs to be. The little doeling is steadily gaining and so is the little buckling, with milk to spare (enough for me to not feel guilty about having some and it's AWESOME).


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

YAY


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Yup! Thanks for all of your wonderful advice! She's already let down 16 oz from one side this morning. Plenty left for the little girl on the other side and plenty to store for little reject Ranger.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Were she mine, I'd milk both sides out almost completely. Then the little girl will go back and forth to get enough milk. Leaving one side for her will teach her to only use one side and can cause udder issues and production issues (future kiddings could make you regret this)

Anyway, you are doing great. Well done.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

Thanks again and I'll give that other side a go once it, again, stops raining cats and dogs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.
Glad she is doing better.


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