# My doe is not doing well



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I had posted a couple threads a while back about worms and my ND doe, Summer. Summer is three or four years old. She's had triplets (that did very well) last year, but wasnt rebred by her owner at the time. Summer had had issues with worms and looking thin and that breeder was switching out her herd of NDs for Nubians (her true love ).
She gave me Summer because she knew I'd pay attention to her condition and treat her as the special mild doe that she is. I wish I had the money to get her a full work up with the vet (bloodwork etc..). I have had fecals done. They showed hookworms, a lot of them two weeks after I wormed with ivomec. So we decided that they were resistant to ivermectin and went with Quest (moxidectin).
I wormed her with quest about three weeks ago and then again about four days ago. Her feces are still completely liquid. She has put on a small amount of weight, but she still needs way more and I need to figure out the diahreah. Obviously something else is still wrong.
Tomorrow I plan on starting her on a regimen of pro-biotics 3x per day and Nutra-drench once a day. She also gets free choice feed and free choice peanut hay as well as 24/7 access to an adundance of grass and a wide selection of browse.
My two little boys, Pan and Sprite never showed any signs of worms (after we got rid of the worms that Sprite brought with him here!). I worm them everytime I worm Summer just in case. And they love to eat. They'll eat anything and everything that looks tasty . The boys are fat and glossy.
I'm thinking that I'm gonna bite the bullet an d have the vet out for a farmcall to see Summer. I know they'll want to take a fecal sample and draw blood for running blood panels and studies.
Is there anything else I should ask the vet to do, or ask for (like a vit B shot)?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Liverfluke is a large problem in Florida and nothing you have given her will kill that. She would need the Ivermectin PLUS. Liverfluke is kind of a shot in the dark as they very rarely show up on fecal screenings. They live anywhere that there are snails and slugs.
Hope you figure it out quickly. Scouring is not good in an adult. Oh, and I would get rid of the Nutri-drench. At this point it's only killing her stomach bacteria and the sugar doesn't help with the scouing.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if the fecal comes up clear she may just need time for her rumen to regulate again. Some bvitamins and probiotics no grain and bland hay. THen slowly add grain and browse and richer hay back into her diet.


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## fd123 (May 29, 2012)

I hope you figure it out mer! Prayers headed your way!


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

No help here, just sending good thoughts for you and Summer. I hope she starts to improve and soon!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You may want to have the fecal sample sent to a lab that does more than just a fecal float. There are parasites that don't show up on just the typical fecal float. Then go from there. 

There is stuff like crypto and giardia and salmonella but those are separate fecal tests and around me run about $50 a piece. I'd want to see what a good fecal test will come up with.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks guys! I had no idea that the Nutri drench could be a bad thing.
If the "Plus" in ivermectin plus is the same as whats in Quest plus, then she has gotten that too, because I couldn't find regular Quest.
I'll ask my vet about sending fecal samples to a lab where they can do more tests.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I got her some Red Cell today, but I can't remember how much I'm supposed to give her. Can somebody please tell me? She takes stuff from a syringe really well so that's good.
I've given her two doses of pro-biotics so far today and will give her one more dose tonight. (I figure the Activia commercials say that it's proven to help digestion when eaten 3x per day, so I'm using the same theory on my pro-bios).
I also bought a ten pound bag of "Goat Balancer) from TSC today. I bought it for Summer because she needs all the help she can get and she chooses to eat very little grain. The instructions on the bag say to give a goat her size one ounce daily as "top dressing". Since she barely even eats her grain I'm going to try and hand feed her an ounce of it daily.
I also bought it because it has ammonium chloride in it and I can't find pure AC anywhere. And I know my boys need to be getting it. Has anybody here ever used this Goat Balancer before?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

6cc per 100 lbs.

Actually, just once a day is fine for Probios.

By the way, are you still going to England? I may have missed the post if you said so or not.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

THanks Karen. Maybe I'll just give the pro-bios twice a day. I'm just really concerned that her digestive system is very stressed from the huge wormload and subsequent wormings.
I'm still hoping to go to England in the spring .


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## City Mini Ranch (Apr 27, 2010)

I just treated a doe who had a worm overload and chronic diarrhea, for a friend. She was very skinny. I put her in a separate pen from my herd. I started her on Valbazen for Liverfluke and Ivermectin combination to cover Lungworm. Ivermectin once but Valbazen 5 times 10 days apart. I usually do 4 times 10 days apart but she needed 5. I do an energy test similar to muscle testing and that is what she was strong for. Then about 3 days later I gave her a dose of Quest horse wormer 1cc per 100 lbs. doing this 3 times, 10 days apart. She also needed treated for Coccidiosis, so Corid for 5 days, full strength mixed with some syrup, 6.25cc per 25 lbs. I put her on Biomycin for 5 days, once a day. She was in bad shape so I pulled out all the guns. She started to improve with her stool but not good enough so I gave her Kao Pectate also. This really helped berry formation. Her intestinal tract is scarred and will take months to heal but she is really doing well now and is back with her owner. Her berries still want to clump together but I believe that will eventually improve hopefully. She will need extra diligence in keeping worms at bay during her recovery.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I googled hookworms and the treatment of choice seems to be valbazen.
I'm not sure why my vet didn't suggest that right off, especially once we figured out that these hookworms were ivermectin resistant.
It's only a few more days till Summer is scheduled for her third and final treatment with Quest plus. I'll give it to her and then find some valbazen and treat her with that as well, all the while keeping up with the pro-biotics.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Any tips on where I can find valbazen?


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## MetalSmitten (Sep 14, 2012)

City Mini Ranch said:


> I do an energy test similar to muscle testing and that is what she was strong for.


sorry to intrude, but i was just curious what you mean by this? i've never heard of either energy or muscle testing  thanks!


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## MetalSmitten (Sep 14, 2012)

Zarafia said:


> Any tips on where I can find valbazen?


i like valley vet supply:
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07949-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=valbazen

many of their non-vaccine items ship free.

edit to add: do not use valbazen on pregnant does, especially the first 45 days. it can cause birth defects.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

MetalSmitten said:


> i like valley vet supply:
> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07949-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=valbazen
> 
> many of their non-vaccine items ship free.
> ...


Thank you!


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## City Mini Ranch (Apr 27, 2010)

Metalsmitten- I learned the kinesiology or muscle testing from a chiropractor, but it is coming in handy with my goats, but took a long time to learn. It is controversial but I have health issues that I can manage much better. Here is a video that demonstrates it. 




Holy Moly I didn't want a big video on this post, just the little link. No way to prevent it.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Just a quick report.
My goaties did very well being locked in their barn overnight. They ate a lot of their grain and ate some hay and they didn't knock over their water .
Summer still has bad diahrea (sp), but it was easy to pick out of the clean shavings.
I have to applaud Summer for keeping such a good attitude. I wish her appetite was better, but she is always eager for her pro-biotics and Red cell. She wasn't a bottle baby, but her former owner did a great job of "taming" her. She's not hard to get a hold of, but she does have to wear a collar.
The day before yesterday I tied her up and washed her backside because it was caked with feces. I also took a pair of scissors and trimmed all the hair off her tail. I'm really tempted to shave her whole backside to help her stay cleaner (actually I think I'll do that today) I've shaved her before and she was really good for me.
I want to guardedly say (knock on wood) that I think she's put a little weight on. She's still frightfully thin, but I do think she's put on a little weight.
Right now I've placed the entire bale of peanut hay in the goat barn, but I've left the strings on it for now. I know they can still eat from it and by keeping the strings on for now I feel like it will stay fresher and more edible. IE they can't drag it everywhere and foul it while it's still in bale form. I've wasted a ton of hay by feeding it in loose flakes that they ate a bit of then pooped in LOL.
Plus having a bale in the barn the boys have something to play "king of the hill" on LOL.
So poor Summer might have to have a full bath today and then get a shave. 
In two days she (and the boys) will get their final dose of Quest Plus. Then I'll look up getting them some valbazen.
In the meantime I'll work on getting my vet out here.
Bless Summer's heart for having such good spirits with all she's going through :lovey:.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If you're going after liverfuke, you might want to do a little more research on your wormer choice.
Valbazen ONLY kills adult flukes that have set up house keeping in the bile ducts. Clorsulon (the plus in Ivo Plus) kills immature forms as well. These parasites travel their way around the body for a long time (4-6 months) before they make it to the bile ducts. Without using something that will kill all lifestages, you're going to miss some no matter what. 
This girl is also ill, you want to use what you can use the lesser of. One dose of Clorsulon takes care of all of them as opposed to how many doses of Valbazen?

Also, if you ever want to get a handle on your parasites, worms, flukes, and cocci, you're going to have to get the goats feet out of their food. This may be the first thing everyone has to learn when they are having their first outbreak.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Goathiker, I really have no reason to suspect liverfluke. Her fecal came back showing a major hookworm infestation, so that's what I'm most concerned about.
This doe's former owner warned me that she is very succeptable to parasites. She had had a very hard time with Summer. 
I had Summer nice and fat when she was living with my young boys. But I put her out in the pasture with Mindy (my late Queen, a full sized alpine) and Summer wasn't getting the free-choice feed and hay that she'd gotten with the boys.
Before Mindy died I noticed that Summer had lost a little weight. After losing Mindy I figured that Summer would "bounce back" but she didn't. All my goats were on a pretty regular worming schedule, but apparently these hookworms are resistant to ivermectin.
I'm really glad that my two boys and horse don't appear to be infected with the worms, but I'm worming them right along with Summer anyway.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I posted this on my "bath day" thread, but I thought I'd post about it here too.
After bathing and clipping Summer I was able to clearly see that she is not quite as skinny as I thought she was. I am quite sure that she's put on weight since I started her hookworm treatment .
She's still underweight, but she's not as emaciated as I had previously thought. Clipped I can't see her ribs. Her hips are sharp and her spine is very prominent. But the spine thing is partially her conformation.
Her former owner warned me about that when she gave her to me. She said that Summer would always look skinnier than she really is because of that backbone.
Clearly she still has health issues. Something is causing her diarrhea. It may be as simple as Stacey suggested, that Summer's digestive tract is in bad shape from the bad hookworm infestation and subsequent treatments, and it may need time to recover.
Or maybe she has another, underlying problem that needs to be dealt with.
Money is a bit of a problem for me right now, but I'm going to try very hard to get my vet out to see her this week, and if I can't afford that I will have another fecal run on her, and I'll ask them to be as thorough as possible in terms of what they look for. If I had the money I'd definitely prefer to get bloodwork done on her as well, but I just don't think that I'll be able to afford it .
In any case I am very glad to see that Summer has put on some weight and isn't as skinny as I thought she was .
And I will make a point to ask my vet about the possibility of liverflukes.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You had mentioned that the 3 goats have freechoice feed and hay?

Do you leave grain available at all times?


I aske because with Summer having liquid diarrhea, she really should be held back from grain and given only hay until she firms her stool... It could be the wormers causing it and the grain aggravating it. I have had success firming up loose stool by feeding a handful of dry oatmeal, it can either be the quick cooking kind or the old fashioned but either will work.

Have you dosed her with Pepto Bismol?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If you do see your vet, you might ask about getting some Bio-sponge for her. This will soak all the bad toxins out of her system and let her make a clean start repairing her digestive track.

This time of year is when the liverflukes from last spring are causing illness in the animals that picked them up. Here's an article if you're interested.
http://animal-health.library4farmin...ttle/DISEASES-AND-PARASITES/Liver-Flukes.html


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

goathiker.... I have heard quite a few good things about Bio Sponge, one being that it was good for coccidia.

It's an equine product right?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, it was made for horses and for dogs/cats. It's not really that expensive either and seems to work really well on goats.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

liz said:


> You had mentioned that the 3 goats have freechoice feed and hay?
> 
> Do you leave grain available at all times?
> 
> ...


Yes, they have access to fresh grain (well pellets now) 24/7. I've kept it that way because Summer almost never eats at feeding time and with her being so skinny I was desperate to be sure she was at least eating a little.
But now, knowing that she's not emaciated, and with what you've just told me, I think I'll take the free choice grain away tomorrow and just start feeding the boys their half cup each that they used to get.
I'm still going to hand feed Summer her ounce of Goat Balancer because I think she could use extra nutrients (and I'm going to keep giving her twice daily pro-bios and redcell once a day). And I'm still going to hand feed the boys their Goat Balancer as well so that I know they both get the right amount of it.
Tomorrow I'll see if I can get Summer to eat some dry oatmeal from my hand. For some reason she is more likely to eat something from my hand than from a bucket.
I'll also buy her some Pepto bismal tomorrow. How much should I give her?
And I saw someone recommend Kaopectate. I'll buy some of that too. Any idea on that dosage?
I really appreciate all the help and advice you guys are giving me. Thank you!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

goathiker said:


> If you do see your vet, you might ask about getting some Bio-sponge for her. This will soak all the bad toxins out of her system and let her make a clean start repairing her digestive track.
> 
> This time of year is when the liverflukes from last spring are causing illness in the animals that picked them up. Here's an article if you're interested.
> http://animal-health.library4farmin...ttle/DISEASES-AND-PARASITES/Liver-Flukes.html


Thanks Goathiker. I'll definitely ask about that.
And thanks for posting the article. I'll read it in a few minutes .


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The article is from the 50s if you'd like a more modern one. All the ones I have contain Autopsy pics. I can PM you a couple.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

goathiker said:


> The article is from the 50s if you'd like a more modern one. All the ones I have contain Autopsy pics. I can PM you a couple.


That would be great if you'd PM them to me! I can deal with necropsy pics. I can usually deal with watching a necropsy. I find them very educational. I only have problems with it when it's an animal I loved.
Thank you!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well I just took my vet a fresh fecal sample. He was kind enough to meet me ten minutes down the road rather than charging me for a housecall or making me make the 50 mile round trip to the office.
He told me to hold off on the third every-ten-day dosing of the quest plus. He says that if it didn't cause her to improve the first times than a third time was not going to help. Either these hookworms are also resistant to cydectin, or there is something else going on with her.
He's going to make sure they test for everything possible with this fecal (I certainly gave him a big enough sample that they can do multiple tests LOL), including the special test for liver flukes (though Eric says he's never seen a case of liverflukes this far north) as well as testing for coccidia.
He says that if nothing turns up on the fecal that we are going to have a difficult time. He says that bloodwork can, sometimes reveal answers, but not as reliably as bloodwork on horses does.
I personally believe that Summer has a good attitude and even if we don't get any clear answers I think that she will respond well to supportive care. She actually likes her redcell and pro-bios. 
But I think we could use your prayers.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Zarafia said:


> But I think we could use your prayers.


You have them. Sometimes we don't know why God allows things to happen, and we may never know. But He always cares and promises He has a good reason for everything.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> You have them. Sometimes we don't know why God allows things to happen, and we may never know. But He always cares and promises He has a good reason for everything.


Thank you, Woodhaven. I know you are right.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Warning! This pic is scary!
This is a pic of Sumer today.
You guys can clrearly see why I'm so concerned about her!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Poor love. One of our original does came to us like that. Turned out she had a major worm load. Is it possible your girl has Johnes?


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Poor love. One of our original does came to us like that. Turned out she had a major worm load. Is it possible your girl has Johnes?


I don't know about the Johnes. I'll ask my vet about it when he gets back to me on the fecal.
I do know that she had a major wormload. This fecal should tell us if it's been taken care of.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

My vet just called with the results of the fecal. 
Poor Summer's fecal was FULL of hookworm eggs! He wants me to treat her with valbazen. Though he didn't say to, I'm going to treat her, then treat her again in ten days and then again ten days after that. And since she is obviously more succeptable to hookworms than my other goats I'm going to just start worming her every month (and I'll treat my other goats as well, just to be safe).
Does anyone here know any other brand names of valbazen? The employees at my feed store and TSC don't seem to know much about wormers.
I have to admit that I'm relieved that the fecal showed that she was still loaded with hookworm (strongyle) eggs. For one thing it means that her terrible condition is probably due to worms. But it also explains why it looks like she's gained a little weight (if you can believe it looking at that picture!) (since there were no adult worms).
Now I just need to find a place where I can buy valbazen/albendazole.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Yay!!! I finally found a feedstore that has Valbazen!!! 
Only drawback is that the smallest about they have costa $47.99. Ouch!
But if it will make Summer better I don't care how much it costs .
I had to call my Dad and beg him for the extra money, but he said okay (I LOVE my DAD!).
So wish us luck, everybody, that this valbazen makes my sweet little doe healthy again.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If the Valbazen doesn't work, then you may want to consider herbs. I would exhaust the chemical wormers first though to at least get rid of the load. My suggestion would be Fir Meadow herbs. She really knows her stuff and is a master herbalist.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Poor baby. 

Did you try your vet to get some valbezen? If not, call around to your feed stores.

Though how are her gums? Are they white? If so, she will need iron supplement too.
Be careful if she is anemic when you worm her. She will have to be wormed gradually so she doesn't bleed out. 
Ask you vet about it and if there is another wormer that he recommends, if you cannot find Valbezen.

I wouldn't recommend deworming her once a month, could make her resistant to the wormer. I'd get a fecal on her once in a while, just to watch her.

I would give her a shot of fortified vit B complex, say 3cc so the wormer doesn't deplete her thiamine.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I'm glad you found some. Valbazen is great, but yeah..I've never found it in small bottles, only the ones that are $40-50 and I never use it all before the dang expiration date. You might put half in a bottle with a label and see if you can't find someone who would like to buy the other half who might own goats or something, since people with small herds just can't use it all up before it goes bad.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know her background but could she have possibly been a cocci baby and now doesn't absorb nutrients like she should, hence her problems?

If this may be the case, I would look into giving her nutrient dense foods to try and help her with absorbing more nutrients. Even look into sprouting organic grain. Or putting a nutrient dense oil on top of feed.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> I don't know her background but could she have possibly been a cocci baby and now doesn't absorb nutrients like she should, hence her problems?
> 
> If this may be the case, I would look into giving her nutrient dense foods to try and help her with absorbing more nutrients. Even look into sprouting organic grain. Or putting a nutrient dense oil on top of feed.


She absolutely could have been a cocci baby. She definitely doesn't absorb nutrients as well as my boys do.
I have her on a high quality food as well as free choice peanut hay and all the grass and browse she can eat. I also just started giving her daily "goat balancer" and red cell.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> Poor baby.
> 
> Did you try your vet to get some valbezen? If not, call around to your feed stores.
> 
> ...


I did find the valbazen. Its a couple counties away but I don't mind the drive .
I do give her red cell every day. She is so good about taking it, she literally comes right up and sucks on the syringe.
Good idea about doing fecals instead of worming her every month! Thank you!!!
Now I'm off to the bank and the feedstore!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are very welcome, praying for her. :hug:ray:

Keep us updated.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Zarafia said:


> I have her on a high quality food as well as free choice peanut hay and all the grass and browse she can eat. I also just started giving her daily "goat balancer" and red cell.


That is all great. I would keep it up. Do a search on nutrient dense foods and see if there is anything that you could add to that to help her.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well I'm finally home now with a lifetime supply of valbazen LOL as well as two nice new kitty litter scoops !
THe bottle of valbazen has a recommended dose for goats, by weight. Should I go by the bottle instructions? (I think I'll start a new thread on valbazen and ask my question there too)

While I was at this feed store where I got the valbazen, I had a look around the place since I've never been there before. I found a tube of paste vitamin B for oral use. It's made for horses, but since I've been unable to get vitamin B injections I figured I'd get a couple tubes.
It's called "Micro B-12 5X". Each tube is one whole dose for a horse. I know that vitamin B is water soluble, so I don't have to worry about overdosing it. Each tube is 6ccs. What I'm thinking to do is make up 6 1cc syringes of it and give one cc to my goats today. Then give Summer 1cc every couple days. What do you guys think?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Zarafia said:


> Well I'm finally home now with a lifetime supply of valbazen LOL as well as two nice new kitty litter scoops !
> THe bottle of valbazen has a recommended dose for goats, by weight. Should I go by the bottle instructions? (I think I'll start a new thread on valbazen and ask my question there too)
> 
> While I was at this feed store where I got the valbazen, I had a look around the place since I've never been there before. I found a tube of paste vitamin B for oral use. It's made for horses, but since I've been unable to get vitamin B injections I figured I'd get a couple tubes.
> It's called "Micro B-12 5X". Each tube is one whole dose for a horse. I know that vitamin B is water soluble, so I don't have to worry about overdosing it. Each tube is 6ccs. What I'm thinking to do is make up 6 1cc syringes of it and give one cc to my goats today. Then give Summer 1cc every couple days. What do you guys think?


 I use 1cc per 33lbs Valbezen.

The oral vit B isn't as good as the shot of it, but it is better than nothing I guess.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I've used the B paste when I knew mine had enough injections...some like it and some don't so be forewarned...you may end up wearing it!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

liz said:


> I've used the B paste when I knew mine had enough injections...some like it and some don't so be forewarned...you may end up wearing it!


I have ended up wearing a wide variety of substances that were intended to go inside an animal's mouth LOL.
And actually, Summer is so good about sucking anything out of a syringe it amazes me!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> I use 1cc per 33lbs Valbezen.
> 
> The oral vit B isn't as good as the shot of it, but it is better than nothing I guess.


That's just a little less than the valbazen bottle recommends and about half of what the Purdue chart recommends.

And that's what I figured about the vit B. It can't hurt.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

follow the bottles recomendations and get an accurate weight on her for proper dosing.

The B vitamin will work good. 

You will need to give her time to recover internally from all teh worm damage so dont be alarmed if fecal shows up clear but her stools are still soft in days to come. It takes time for the damage to be repaired


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

StaceyRoop said:


> follow the bottles recomendations and get an accurate weight on her for proper dosing.
> 
> The B vitamin will work good.
> 
> You will need to give her time to recover internally from all teh worm damage so dont be alarmed if fecal shows up clear but her stools are still soft in days to come. It takes time for the damage to be repaired


I actually weighed all three of my goaties today (not the most accurate way, I used my old bathroom scale, weighed myself and then weighed myself holding each of them, in turn) . 
Pan weighed about 35lbs.
Summer weighed approx 40lbs.
And (surprisingly) my "little" Sprite weighed in at around 50lbs!
Summer is the tallest and longest, followed by Pan. Sprite is the shortest height and length-wise of them all. But he's really grown into a little beefcake as he's gotten "bucky" LOL.

Being more worried about underdosing than overdosing a little, I did give each of them the tiny bit more that the website recommended. Summer NEEDS these worms dead, and I'm giving her everything possible to support her system in the meantime.

Thanks for the reassurance on the vitamin B. While I was setting it up in 1cc syringes tonight I ended up tasting it and it actually tastes pretty good LOL . Both Summer and Sprite actively seek any syringe I offer them. I was really amused at how eagerly sucked down his valbazen (twice!) today . Summer is eager to find out what is in the syringe, but if she doesn't like the taste she'll lose enthusiasm. She usually gets the rest down well though. I have started adding a touch of moleasses to the end of her pro-bios and redcell lately because I don't want to sour her on syringes in general.
Pan, on the other hand, wants nothing to do with syringes . I have to hold him still, by the head in order to administer anything to him orally. Fortunately Pan is the sweetest goat on Earth and he forgives me instantly . Sometimes I have to "apologise" by scratching his belly by his left nipple LOL (his very favorite scratching spot ).
With my new system of keeping everybody locked in a thickly, freshly bedded barn and my even newer system of using kitty litter scoops to hand pick the stall daily, I am extremely aware of everybody's feces. I'm going to be watching Summer's feces like a hawk for any signs of change. Right now anything but "brown pea soup" from here will be a vast improvement.
I realise that Summer's entire digestive tract has been traumatised by the severe parasite infestation and by the drugs I've given her attempting to kill the worms. The (expected) die-off of all the worms in her will stress her system even more now. So I'll definitely be keeping an eye on everything about her.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well this morning when I let everybody out of the barn, I found Summer's pile of diarrea (right behind where she'd been laying down) and it was definitely different today. THe most distinctive thing was the smell. It never smelled like roses LOL, but this morning it smelled particularly bad. Also, instead of its normal "brown pea soup" consistancy, it had parts that were almost sheer liquid and thicker parts. Because it isn't that light out yet I can't be sure, but I think it was a darker color as well.
But she got right up when I openen the barn door and she and Sprite left immediately to go browse.
Pan, of course, stayed and "helped" me clean the barn LOL.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I was also pleased to see that the goaties had eaten nearly all their grain overnight, more than they usually do.
I'm going to be watching Summer very carefully today to make sure she's not in distress from her worming yesterday. I'm going to make a point to follow her around enough to keep an eye on her feces and see what happens with them. 
In a few minutes I'm headed back out with her pro-bios, redcell, vitamin B and her Goat Balancer. I might take a chair out to the pasture with me so that I can stalk her more comfortably LOL.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

So how did you goat watching day go?


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

StaceyRoop said:


> So how did you goat watching day go?


So-so. I made myself busy outside weeding and fixing an automatic waterer and some hoses. 
I washed Summer's behind because she had some dried feces caked on, but that was quick and easy since I clipped her. 
She did a lot of browsing. I saw her defacate once and it was the same diarrhea she's had.
Then it decided to rain . 
I need to go out and feed and lock the goaties up now .
At least I can say that she doesn't appear to feel any worse. Her appetite is good .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

This is what my vet told me years ago on Valbezen Dosage and has worked for my goaties. 
Your right about the b vitamin, it is better than nothing at all, especially if you cannot get any injectable.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Far a sad comparison, here is a pic of Summer from a few months ago:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Have you given her some pepto or kaopektate(sp)? I wish she wasn't still having runny pooh. She's a pretty girl...looks like my Janie.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I heard that pig scour halt works well for scours. Spectrum scour halt 1cc per 10lbs follow label
*Follow up with oral ruminant Probios to repopulate the gut.* along with Fortified Vit B complex or thiamine shots
it may stop it. We need to get the scours stopped, may be worth a shot. Before she goes down hill more.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

The Spectrum Scour Halt stuff does work. I used it on a doe kid once. NEVER use it on an adult goat though. It works so well it shut down their rumen.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

caprine crazy said:


> The Spectrum Scour Halt stuff does work. I used it on a doe kid once. NEVER use it on an adult goat though. It works so well it shut down their rumen.


 That is why I mentioned giving probiotics and thiamine


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

The plus in Quest Plus is not the same as the Ivermectin Plus. In Quest Plus, it is Moxidectin and praziquental. Praziquental is a very very good wormer for tapeworms. The quest plus should be dosed at twice the dosgage for horses. 
Ivermectin plus is ivermectin and Clorsulon. I am not as familiar with thi product, but the Clorsulon is the only active ingredients that will kill liver Flukes. From my understanding, liver flukes do not cause scours/runny poop.They cause the poop to be very dark, shrunken pellets that have tips on the end. We are using this product at 1 cc per 25lbs on goats. We recommend consultinga vet for dosage. My suggestions are just what we are using. 


Not saying you need the Ivermectin plus.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Sorry your doe is not doing well...I've been following this thread...but I've been away for awhile...have you treated her for cocci? I almost lost an adult doe to cocci once. She did not have runny pooh...just unthrifty...when it finally dawned on me it might be cocci...she was really sick. But, once she was treated she came back really fast. I used Red Cell, and of course the B's. I'd try some sulmet if you haven't already. I'm praying for her.


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## onehorse_2000 (Sep 17, 2012)

This is an out there thought, but I had a gelding that was allergic/sensitive to grain and all grain product. It took 4 vets and 8 yrs to figure it out, but I would cut out all grain and grain product (check the Red Cell, too) and start with a grass/forage based diet. It took my gelding a month before his gut was normal enough for normal manure, but it was like a light switch, yucky runny today, almost normal tomorrow. Up to that point, he was always underweight (no matter what he was feed and how much), very picky about feeds and what he would eat and how much, and always had some sort of diarrhea, anywhere from absolutely runny to some formation, but never normal.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I also really like the Spectam Scour Halt/gaurd for pigs. I will use it on a goat that is scouring badly, and also worm or treat for coccidiosis at the same time, or sometimes I do all three. Worm, coccidiosis treatmengt and the spectam Scour halt. I use it twice a day for 3 treatments. I have rarely not had the scours stop after that. Most the time the clear up in 24 hours.


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