# Can anyone identify this breed?



## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

We got a couple goats yesterday. They are female. One is 4 months and the other is about a year old. Can anyone help me identify their breed? The one year old stands with her head about as high as my hip maybe a little taller. She also might be pregnant (the people we got them from have a boy who had gotten out of his pen and they found him in with the girls). I'm new to this goat thing. Trying to learn as much as I can and give them the best we can for them.

(Posting two pics. The brown goat, also female, came from the same farm as the white two. Not sure if they're siblings. That goat went to a friend's house to be with his other goat) the larger white one had a 4H tag ripped out of her ear in the past. It is all healed now. But it makes her one ear fold over.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

The older/bigger doe, my first thought was a saanen. The smaller white one looks like a nigerian(possibly mixed with something else)
The brown one looks like an alpine, they don't really look related to me, but who knows. Congrats on getting the 2 girls. They are very pretty whatever they are!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The big white one almost looks like a Saanen or Saanen mix. The small white goat's face kind of looks Nigerian but the ears look longer than normal so she might be a Nubian/Nigerian mix. I bet they are all mixes of some sort. None look purebred.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Congratulations on getting goats. If the one doe is pregnant, when is she due to deliver. Possibly the yearling could have Nigerian Dwarf and Saneen in her going by the description of her height and the color. Brown swiss marked looks like Alpine and something. Younger white one possibly Nigerian and maybe Nubian. Welcome to The Goat Spot!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> View attachment 163691
> View attachment 163693
> We got a couple goats yesterday. They are female. One is 4 months and the other is about a year old. Can anyone help me identify their breed? The one year old stands with her head about as high as my hip maybe a little taller. She also might be pregnant (the people we got them from have a boy who had gotten out of his pen and they found him in with the girls). I'm new to this goat thing. Trying to learn as much as I can and give them the best we can for them.
> 
> (Posting two pics. The brown goat, also female, came from the same farm as the white two. Not sure if they're siblings. That goat went to a friend's house to be with his other goat) the larger white one had a 4H tag ripped out of her ear in the past. It is all healed now. But it makes her one ear fold over.


Congrats on the new goats. If the young doeling was in with the buck as well... i would have a preg test done in a month to see if she is pregnant. That would only make her nine months old and that is a tad young to kid.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Welcome to the forum!


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

Thank you all so much for your input. Once I get my human kids to bed I'll go out and try to get a couple better pics with better lighting. The year old is white with markings that looks like she had peach cream poured over her back. It's actually pretty cool looking but it all blends well. She walks with her tail raised a lot. 

The 4 month old is very clingy. Always wants to be right on my heels. Her face looks like a little lamb face and her ears are quite long and stick out more horizontal. Likes to lay across my lap in a chair and sleep on my lap. She also has long eyelashes and I think blue or grey eyes.

They're both very sweet and lovey. They definitely seem to understand were here to love them and take care of them. And they're amazing, tolerant and gentle with my young children. I give these descriptions because I don't know if maybe some breeds tend to have different demeanors.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

They are such cheesers. You can see the smirks lol

You can't really see it well in any pics but the year old has some cream colored marked on her face as well


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I know what they are
this is so easy
How did we miss the most important clue? :bonk:








they are----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GOATS!!!!! and cute ones too(woo)


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> Thank you all so much for your input. Once I get my human kids to bed I'll go out and try to get a couple better pics with better lighting. The year old is white with markings that looks like she had peach cream poured over her back. It's actually pretty cool looking but it all blends well. She walks with her tail raised a lot.
> 
> The 4 month old is very clingy. Always wants to be right on my heels. Her face looks like a little lamb face and her ears are quite long and stick out more horizontal. Likes to lay across my lap in a chair and sleep on my lap. She also has long eyelashes and I think blue or grey eyes.
> 
> They're both very sweet and lovey. They definitely seem to understand were here to love them and take care of them. And they're amazing, tolerant and gentle with my young children. I give these descriptions because I don't know if maybe some breeds tend to have different demeanors.


There are breed characteristics and somewhat of a breed personality. Their demeanor is influenced by a variety of factors, temperament of both of their parents, ranking in the herd, their own natural tendency towards how they handle situations and strength of character, to name a few. Each and every goat is individually different and distinct regardless of the breed or mix that came together to create them.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

No idea on breeds. It looks like they are well mixed. lol Just like in other animals, a mixed breed could be the best animal for you.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

With the short legs, Nigerian is in there. But I suspect there really are multiple breeds involved. The airplane ears would suggest Nubian. The white suggests Saanen. So there is influence of a minimum of 3 goat breeds.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> There are breed characteristics and somewhat of a breed personality. Their demeanor is influenced by a variety of factors, temperament of both of their parents, ranking in the herd, their own natural tendency towards how they handle situations and strength of character, to name a few. Each and every goat is individually different and distinct regardless of the breed or mix that came together to create them.


I wasn't sure if they would be like dogs in that manner. I fully agree that dogs and humans and any other creature is an individual in how it behaves regardless of their breed (example pitbulls bad reputation for being violent. All the pits I've known have been lovers and not a mean bone in their body).

Regardless of their breed I love these girls. They're so sweet and gentle. They come running when they hear the barn door to greet us. They follow us around everywhere we go. When we leave the barn they run to the fence where they can see us again and talk to us for about five mins even after we're out of sight. They like human snuggles. Anyway I was just curious of their breeds for record keeping sake and possible medical history of breeds. I wouldn't change a thing about these girls if I could


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> With the short legs, Nigerian is in there. But I suspect there really are multiple breeds involved. The airplane ears would suggest Nubian. The white suggests Saanen. So there is influence of a minimum of 3 goat breeds.


Would you say a mix of these three for both of them or just one?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I understand the reasoning behind wanting to know their specific gene pool now that I have read your last post. Unfortunately, there hasn't been very much detailed breed research conducted with goats. A few things are commonly known about certain breeds, like Nigerian Dwarf are notoriously known to reach sexual maturity at ridiculously early ages. I have read about tendency in other breeds, though right off the top of my head, I can't be accurate enough to repeat those specifics unless I refreshed my memory enough to remember which of the possible thousands of posts mentioned those traits. With yours being a mix of assuming multiple breeds, I am not certain it would even be possible to determine what tendency would hold true.

As a second thought, if breed specific were to be used or needed for sale of future kids, I strongly suspect unknown mixed breed would be the primary category they would fall under. The buck breed(s) type is also a consideration in making up the gene pool and there has been no mention of what breed(s) he could have been when these does were sired or the possibility to determine the buck's breed(s) contributing to the unborn kids that may or may not be present.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

JillZaHulk said:


> Would you say a mix of these three for both of them or just one?


Really can't say. They may even have more mixed in. But generally I'd go with the 3 for both. The older one I don't really see Nubian in but can't rule out either.


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## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

I've seen Mini-Saanens around here and they look pretty similar, Maybe your's are Mini-Saanen/Mini-Nubian cross?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

The smaller one appears a bit mineral deficient with hair thinning on the bridge of her nose and end of the tail. Be sure to provide a loose mineral free choice. For just two goats, a small orange bag of Manna Pro Goat Mineral will do, be sure it's the mineral and not "Goat Balancer".


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Be sure to have your veterinarian draw blood in 30 days and you can mail it in to a laboratory to test for pregnancy. They are a little young for disease testing, but another blood sample should be mailed next year. 

The larger one has a very wide and strong front end, she must have some non-dairy breed in there to get that much width between her front legs! 

If the small one has blue eyes, then Nigerian mix definitely. 

My guesses are:
Large goat - Saanen/Boer 
Smaller goat - Saanen/Nigerian


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Each and every goat is individually different and distinct regardless of the breed or mix that came together to create them


Yup!



SalteyLove said:


> The smaller one appears a bit mineral deficient with hair thinning on the bridge of her nose and end of the tail. Be sure to provide a loose mineral free choice. For just two goats, a small orange bag of Manna Pro Goat Mineral will do, be sure it's the mineral and not "Goat Balancer".


You could also try this mineral, https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-wind-rain-storm-all-season-75-complete?cm_vc=-10005, IMO it is better


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> The smaller one appears a bit mineral deficient with hair thinning on the bridge of her nose and end of the tail. Be sure to provide a loose mineral free choice. For just two goats, a small orange bag of Manna Pro Goat Mineral will do, be sure it's the mineral and not "Goat Balancer".


My husband grabbed the orange bag of Manna pro mineral on his way home tonight. I offered a little and youngin didn't care for it. She took one lick and just sneezed about five times and kept licking her lips. The possibly pregnant one scarfed her dose quick. I offered it in my hand and when it was gone she just kept licking my hand. The smaller ones fur looks thin in the pics but in person it's not. Her fur is just really white with pink skin and her fur is still really fluffy and stands on end a lot so you can easily see thru the fur. I'm hoping that if the diarrhea is a hydrating thing or if it's just the change in diet that this will help regulate. Also if the bigger one is in fact pregnant, I saw somewhere mineral is important during gestation. Thank you so much for the suggestion.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I expanded the picture where the larger doe has her backside facing the camera and it looks like her lady bits are puffy and long which leads me to think she might indeed be bred. If in your other thread on her possible pregnancy you could post more close up rear end pictures it might help us help determine if she's bred or not.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Put the mineral out free choice. Put out 1/2 to 1 cup at a time. Use up the Manna Pro mineral while you can read about and research what mineral will ultimately work for you.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Right-oh - as Karen pointed out above. Ignore the "dosage" instructions on the bag of Manna Pro mineral and let them have as much as they want. If you just screw a little plastic container to the wall inside their shelter you can put it right in there. But it will absorb moisture and get clumpy which they don't like so it's nice to put out a week's worth at a time or so then refresh it. 

Out of curiosity... if a buck jumped in to the doe pen at their previous home - why do you think only the older one was bred and not both?

Her fur standing on end is abnormal, they should have smooth sleek soft shiny coats. The minerals will help.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

A fecal test that includes coccidia needs to be done. Being relocated twice can cause a lot of stress, causing a bloom in parasites and coccidia. Since you may have 2 possibly pregnant does, please post the test results for the members to see and help advise you on which products to treat them with. Most of these treatments can be purchased from a farm supply store for less cost than buying them from the vet.

With diarrhea being present, feeding only hay and providing electrolyte water in addition to plain drinking water is highly recommended. Giving them probiotics as well will help keep their digestive system functioning more smoothly.

How large is their fenced in enclosure area? Having a smaller area sectioned off dedicated solely for shedding the worms/coccidia once treatment is given will help reduce the risks of contaminating the entire pen. Then leave that area completely closed off for a while. Keeping the poop cleaned up regularly and any really soiled bedding cleaned out frequently will lower the risks of being infested over and over again.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Right-oh - as Karen pointed out above. Ignore the "dosage" instructions on the bag of Manna Pro mineral and let them have as much as they want. If you just screw a little plastic container to the wall inside their shelter you can put it right in there. But it will absorb moisture and get clumpy which they don't like so it's nice to put out a week's worth at a time or so then refresh it.
> 
> Out of curiosity... if a buck jumped in to the doe pen at their previous home - why do you think only the older one was bred and not both?
> 
> Her fur standing on end is abnormal, they should have smooth sleek soft shiny coats. The minerals will help.


The container to the wall is a good idea. We'll have to come up with something like that. I need to do the same for our ducks food and water. They're constantly chasing each other thru it and spilling it all everywhere.

At first I didn't know how young a goat could be fertile or how late till they show signs.. So there's a possibility the younger one is as well.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

Soooooo... The "sister" (other girl from the same farm as these two. Dark one in pic.) Had to come to our house tonight along with her male companion (the one she was bought to keep company) the resident dog there attacked her so this was the safest and best option. She and the male are 5 months old.. any guesses what kinda of mixes they could be? (The girl too was in with our white two when they were exposed to the boy... She's also been in with this boy since Sunday so who knows what's happened in that time ‍♀


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

What type of hay are you feeding? Have you began stocking up enough to last through winter?

Do you have plans on keeping the buck permanently? Is he being housed with the 3 girls currently?

Surely looks like the doeling is closer to being a yearling than weanling in age.

Attacked by a dog or chased by a dog? Are there any bite wounds on either of these 2. If you are not sure about whether there are puncture wounds or not, please go look them over closely, parting the hair to be able to see the skin. Have you given them a CDT vaccination yet?

EDIT: For the more experienced owners; does the buck look a little off to you?


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

As far as I know they will stay with us permanently. Yes, attacked. There are punctures. She has wounds around her mouth and ear that were bleeding quite a lot. Tho Once stopped they don’t look that bad. The dog also kept biting her in the thigh/butt tho we couldn’t find and puncture marks there or any signs of pain there. We have not been stocking up on hay but in the next day or two we have a half ton being delivered. They’re currently eating alfalfa hay. At the moment they’re housed all in one barn but he has been separated so they can see each other but he doesn’t have direct access to them. We haven’t given any vaccines yet but plan to. 

What do you mean by him looking a little off?


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

To add... the buck wasn’t attacked, just the doe. 

What would cause a Dog who’s generally well behaved and has been fine with the goats to change behavior like that?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm so glad you could offer a safe place for these two. Now you officially have a herd!

Dog = predator
Goat = prey

Unfortunately that's about all we can say without knowing more about the circumstances. It's possible seeing the two goats together (maybe playing more or head butting) got the dog excited. 

So here's the thing, puncture wounds can look like no big deal on the outside but become big huge really bad infections on the inside. And there is also a risk of tetanus. The puncture wounds allow the teeth to get all the mouth bacteria down under the skin. Do you have iodine on hand? It would be a really good idea to dilute iodine and flush out every puncture you can find, use a syringe (no needle) or a turkey baster or a medicine dropper - anything that will get the diluted iodine really inside there. 


The buck does look "off" - which is just a term to say he appears to feel unwell. His fur is up a bit, head down, hunched posture along the back, stiff legs, and he looks possibly underweight (hard to say without putting hands on him.)

I highly recommend getting him neutered (known as "wethered" in goats) ASAP - this can be done by a livestock veterinarian or perhaps you can find a cattle owner in your area willing to band him for you. He definitely should not run with the does full time for the long-run without being neutered. That will result in back to back pregnancies and drag down the doe's health. In addition, only the best bucks should be bred for good health and conformation in kids, and he doesn't appear to offer anything spectacular.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Thank you @SalteyLove for adding a second eye. @JillZaHulk I suspect she should be given Tetanus Antitoxin right away, followed by an CDT within no more than 10 days, then be given a 2nd CDT booster in 3-4 weeks. Other members will chime in with additional advise.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> As far as I know they will stay with us permanently. Yes, attacked. There are punctures. She has wounds around her mouth and ear that were bleeding quite a lot. Tho Once stopped they don't look that bad. The dog also kept biting her in the thigh/butt tho we couldn't find and puncture marks there or any signs of pain there. We have not been stocking up on hay but in the next day or two we have a half ton being delivered. They're currently eating alfalfa hay. At the moment they're housed all in one barn but he has been separated so they can see each other but he doesn't have direct access to them. We haven't given any vaccines yet but plan to.
> 
> What do you mean by him looking a little off?


Looking off means he appears to be ailing. Several things could cause this and not knowing any past history, I can't say anything definitely as to what the problem could be.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> To add... the buck wasn't attacked, just the doe.
> 
> What would cause a Dog who's generally well behaved and has been fine with the goats to change behavior like that?


From your description of the dog bitting her continuously around the rear leg areas, the dog was trying to bring her down. If the dog had not been stopped, he would have killed her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> :nod::up:


@toth boer goats would you mind reading post #32 above. I am pretty sure I've seen his vaccination plan mentioned before, failed to add it to my notes. Uncertain background, current owner hasn't vaccinated.

Thank you.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

I was just out with the goats, making sure everything was going ok. I noticed yesterday when bringing her home her hooves looked kinda strange to me. But I'm new to goats and don’t know if maybe it’s a bred thing or maybe a deficiency thing... I snapped a couple pics to see what you guys thought. She’s also been shivering but also acting a little nervous or scared/unsure of me. Tho she will let me approach her and comfort her for a min or feed her treats from my hand so she’s not too scared of me, just not sure why the shivering. I want to help them and give them the best I possibly can. At this point it seems anything I do will put them in a better off situation than any of them were in before.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

JillZaHulk said:


> I was just out with the goats, making sure everything was going ok. I noticed yesterday when bringing her home her hooves looked kinda strange to me. But I'm new to goats and don't know if maybe it's a bred thing or maybe a deficiency thing... I snapped a couple pics to see what you guys thought. She's also been shivering but also acting a little nervous or scared/unsure of me. Tho she will let me approach her and comfort her for a min or feed her treats from my hand so she's not too scared of me, just not sure why the shivering. I want to help them and give them the best I possibly can. At this point it seems anything I do will put them in a better off situation than any of them were in before.


Forgot to add the hoof pics... do they just need trimming??

Also the shivering... maybe just cold? It was 25 degrees out this morning and took quite a while to warm up. She's just hanging out in the sun by the well house, when I look at her out the window she's not shivering now. Maybe cold or nervous?!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

They VERY BADLY need trimming. URGENTLY, in fact.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I may be seeing some hoof rot as well.

They are severely deformed. You will need to trim slow and steady, very often, and some rasping may be necessary as well.

Can we get a photo of the hooves on the bottom? I want to see the extent of the heel and wall growth.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

What have you done towards treating her bites from the dog attack? Why are the hooves a higher priority?

@NigerianDwarfOwner707 This goat was recently attacked and bitten repeatedly by a dog. I understand your concern over the hooves. Getting pictures of the bottom of the hoof considering her rear legs are more than likely very sore may not be a good idea.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> @JillZaHulk What have you done towards treating her bites from the dog attack? Why are the hooves a higher priority?
> 
> @NigerianDwarfOwner707 This goat was recently attacked and bitten repeatedly by a dog. I understand your concern over the hooves. Getting pictures of the bottom of the hoof considering her rear legs are more than likely very sore may not be a good idea.


I'm sorry, I hadn't read the rest of the thread. I was answering the question "are her hooves overgrown" and that's all.

Hooves are definitely not a priority over dog bites!!


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

I hadn't looked at the bottom until now... They don't look good at all to me and I don't even know what they ideally should look like. She wasn't too fond of me holding or touching or even getting my phone to close to her feet to get pics. I don't know what hoof rot is but when I look at the bottoms of hers I imagine this is what a horrible case would look like. I feel horrible someone has treated her like this. How do I fix this?.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I've seen worse.

Trim the walls first. That will only take you a short period of time and may help her to walk a bit more flat and to get some of the mud out.

Then treat the dog attack issues and go back to the hooves.

By the "Walls" I mean the flaps:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)




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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> There are punctures. She has wounds around her mouth and ear that were bleeding quite a lot. Tho Once stopped they don't look that bad. The dog also kept biting her in the thigh/butt tho we couldn't find and puncture marks there or any signs of pain there


Goats hide the signs of pain extremely well. I guarantee she is in pain. Have you ever been bitten by a dog. Hurts like heck!


JillZaHulk said:


> She's also been shivering but also acting a little nervous or scared/unsure of me. Tho she will let me approach her and comfort her for a min or feed her treats from my hand so she's not too scared of me, just not sure why the shivering.


She was moved twice before being located to your place. Moved shortly there after to yet another place. Attacked by a dog yesterday and relocated again back to your place. This poor darling has been under a tremendous amount of stress from being relocated many times. And then traumatized by a dog attack!

Now please answer my question (beginning in post #41) about what you have done, if anything, towards treating the bite wounds, treating her pain, treating her for the stress and making her more comfortable.

Since you have a camera close by, please post pictures of her ears and face showing the bite wounds.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> View attachment 163825
> View attachment 163827
> View attachment 163829


Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.

Is there a 'too much'? Like with dog claws when you trim a little too deep it can bleed and hurt them?

What tools do I need to trim and clean and fix her feet up right? (I'll take care of the attack wounds separate but try to purchase all of what I need for both in the same trip)


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

So, what do you think would be needed to be picked up for her in regards to the dog attack? Does this mean, she hasn't been treated at all, none whatever, yet?


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> @JillZaHulk What have you done towards treating her bites from the dog attack? Why are the hooves a higher priority?
> 
> @NigerianDwarfOwner707 This goat was recently attacked and bitten repeatedly by a dog. I understand your concern over the hooves. Getting pictures of the bottom of the hoof considering her rear legs are more than likely very sore may not be a good idea.


The hooves are not a higher priority. Her hind legs may be a bit bruised but the only puncture marks are on her lip and ear and they are not very bad at all. She is walking just fine tho not a lot, probably due to both her hooves and bruised legs. But no limp or babying of anything. I will be treating her wounds as well. And trimming and cleaning her feet. I never said her feet were a higher priority. Just curious why they looked the way they had.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.
> 
> Is there a 'too much'? Like with dog claws when you trim a little too deep it can bleed and hurt them?
> 
> What tools do I need to trim and clean and fix her feet up right? (I'll take care of the attack wounds separate but try to purchase all of what I need for both in the same trip)


Yes. If at ANY point you see pink, STOP!

A hoof trimmer just look for goat hoof trimming shears, though a good flat (not curved) garden shear can do.

Then purchase a mini rasp if you can for later.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> So, what do you think would be needed to be picked up for her in regards to the dog attack? Does this mean, she hasn't been treated at all, none whatever, yet?


I've done peroxide and a warm wash cloth with water. And as for what I would need to pick up would be the items you had suggested before, the tetanus antitoxin and the CDT doses. And maybe some sort of wound ointment that may be more goat appropriate but otherwise I have mupirocin I can use or Neosporin.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

Sorry that response took a bit. I will get wound pics when I get home. I had to head out to pick my son up from school. I will stop at tractor supply on the way home and get what I need. Hopefully the staff there are knowledgeable and as helpful as you all have been.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> I've done peroxide and a warm wash cloth with water. And as for what I would need to pick up would be the items you had suggested before, the tetanus antitoxin and the CDT doses. And maybe some sort of wound ointment that may be more goat appropriate but otherwise I have mupirocin I can use or Neosporin.


Just keep the wounds flushed and clean. Give 1-2 cloves of garlic daily as a natural antibiotic.

I could recommend natural wound ointments or poultices that you could possibly apply with household items if you are interested.

Neosporin IS goat-safe.

Tetanus antitoxin first, and then CDT no sooner than 5 days afterwards.

Who's dog attacked her? Is rabies a concern here?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> So here's the thing, puncture wounds can look like no big deal on the outside but become big huge really bad infections on the inside. And there is also a risk of tetanus. The puncture wounds allow the teeth to get all the mouth bacteria down under the skin. Do you have iodine on hand? It would be a really good idea to dilute iodine and flush out every puncture you can find, use a syringe (no needle) or a turkey baster or a medicine dropper - anything that will get the diluted iodine really inside there.


@SalteyLove Post #31 has given excellent advice on how to treat dog bite wounds. Also needed would be: iodine, probiotics, b complex, liquid Benadryl, rectal thermometer and something for pain relief. Banimine would be the best, it relieves pain, and is an anti-inflammatory.

Have you taken her temperature? If it is high, or becomes high, an infection could be developing and antibiotics would be needed.

Putting antibiotic cream anywhere around the mouth could enable the goat to be able to lick it off, so any type of ointment isn't a good idea.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Please remember to post pictures of her face and ears. Thank you.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Just keep the wounds flushed and clean. Give 1-2 cloves of garlic daily as a natural antibiotic.
> 
> I could recommend natural wound ointments or poultices that you could possibly apply with household items if you are interested.
> 
> ...


Rabies is not a concern. It was the family dog that lived there with the goats. He's gotten along with their goats fine until yesterday when he went under the hot wire on the yard fence and then went under the goats pen fence. My niece was the only one home there at the time and she was the one who broke up the fight. She got drug around quite a bit herself and had to hit and kick the dog a few times with a branch before she was able to get ahold of him enough to lift him and chucked him over the pen fence. She's 15 and it's tearing her up to have seen her dog turn violent like this.

There was someone there (at tractor supply) very goat knowledgeable. I did not get the antitoxin since there are currently no tetanus symptoms but will quickly pick it up if she starts to show signs.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> @SalteyLove Post #31 has given excellent advice on how to treat dog bite wounds. Also needed would be: iodine, probiotics, b complex, liquid Benadryl, rectal thermometer and something for pain relief. Banimine would be the best, it relieves pain, and is an anti-inflammatory.
> 
> Have you taken her temperature? If it is high, or becomes high, an infection could be developing and antibiotics would be needed.
> 
> Putting antibiotic cream anywhere around the mouth could enable the goat to be able to lick it off, so any type of ointment isn't a good idea.


Sorry I didn't see this comment until I got home. I will pick up a thermometer tomorrow along with the vitamins and probiotics and anything else necessary. I do need to get probiotics and electrolytes for the other goats as well. I saw probiotics when I was there and told myself I'll come back to that in a min then spaced.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> Rabies is not a concern. It was the family dog that lived there with the goats. He's gotten along with their goats fine until yesterday when he went under the hot wire on the yard fence and then went under the goats pen fence. My niece was the only one home there at the time and she was the one who broke up the fight. She got drug around quite a bit herself and had to hit and kick the dog a few times with a branch before she was able to get ahold of him enough to lift him and chucked him over the open fence. She's 15 and it's tearing her up to have seen her dog turn violent like this.
> 
> There was someone there (at tractor supply) very goat knowledgeable. I did not get the antitoxin since there are currently no tetanus symptoms but will quickly pick it up if she starts to show signs.
> 
> View attachment 163831


Those trimmers will do.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

The sore on the lip isn't as bad as it looks at the moment. It's just crusty. Once I get my kids down tonight I'll go out and clean her up and take care of stuff. I'll probably do her hooves tomorrow at nap time.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> The sore on the lip isn't as bad as it looks at the moment. It's just crusty. Once I get my kids down tonight I'll go out and clean her up and take care of stuff. I'll probably do her hooves tomorrow at nap time.
> 
> View attachment 163843
> View attachment 163845


Nap time is the best time for hoof trimming.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Hopefully you will read this before using the Blue Kote. DO NOT Use this around her MOUTH! These are the caution(s) listed: Keep away from the eyes, mouth, nostrils and mucous membranes. Do not spray in the eyes. Do not inhale. Prevent animal from licking the treated area.

Blue Kote is a good product for some injuries, just not for these particular injuries.

Consider taking it back and using the refund as exchange towards the other items on your list. Probiotics, B Complex, Electrolytes, a few more syringes, etc.

It would be a good idea to have the liquid Benadryl on hand before vaccinating (might as well do the other does now and once the buck is more healthy vaccinate him) with the CD&T. Benadryl is needed in case of a reaction to the vaccine.

EDIT: I see the beginnings of infection starting in the wounds around her mouth. The scabs need to be removed to promote drainage, and both areas need to be flushed a couple of times a day with diluted iodine as was recommended in post #31.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> I did not get the antitoxin since there are currently no tetanus symptoms but will quickly pick it up


Tetanus antitoxin is a prophylaxis after injury because of it's immediate effect. Recommended for the use as an aid in the PREVENTION of tetanus in animals. Once symptoms appear it is usually fatal even when giving high dosages of an antitoxin as a treatment.

The CDT vaccination is used to establish an immunity against those 3 illnesses listed. An immunity response is created by exposure to small amounts of the organism involved. In theory, giving that doe the CDT vaccine now would introduce a small amount of the tetanus germ into her system. The very organism giving the antitoxin was recommended to use for prevention against.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

The doe does need the anti toxin asap. Once you see signs it's too late.
You've gotten some amazing advice on wound cleaning and such. I'd be giving all four goats vitamin b complex and probios just to keep their systems from getting too stressed. I'd also get a heat lamp set up so they can go under it. You don't want to add pneumonia into the mix of problems you're having. Goats aren't super sturdy creatures and they react to changes ...these poor things have been through the wringer lately and any immune support you can provide is important. Vitamin C chewable or gummies wouldn't hurt either (human kind found at walmart is fine) I'd be giving them two a day.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@GoofyGoat Thank you for the post above, it means a lot to me. I was considering sending out a SOS to other members. Your post will help bump the priority back up again. The treatment and discussion about the dog bite wounds/immune support for stress and such got clogged up and redirected with post#38/39/40/42/43/44/45/50/58/and 60 between the OP and @NigerianDwarfOwner707 about hoof trimming.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

If you see signs of tetanus, it’s too late or at least it’s REALLY hard to bring them back. Tetanus/lock-jaw is usually fatal. Get that anti-toxin.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> @GoofyGoat Thank you for the post above, it means a lot to me. I was considering sending out a SOS to other members. Your post will help bump the priority back up again. The treatment and discussion about the dog bite wounds/immune support for stress and such got clogged up and redirected with post#38/39/40/42/43/44/45/50/58/and 60 between the OP and @NigerianDwarfOwner707 about hoof trimming.


My apologies. The dog bite is the most important matter and tetanus antitoxin was my first recommendation at the beginning of the thread participation.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> My apologies. The dog bite is the most important matter and tetanus antitoxin was my first recommendation at the beginning of the thread participation.


Tetanus antitoxin wasn't specifically recommended by you until post #53! This is not the time or place to discuss this any further.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Tetanus antitoxin wasn't specifically recommended by you until post #53! This is not the time or place to discuss this any further.


I worded that wrong lol. What I meant was, participation in terms of helping with the dog bite. At the beginning I didn't know there was one, and then the OP asked about hooves, so I answered, and then the conversation spun back to the dog bite and that's when I addressed it in #53. I'm always one to follow the OP's lead. I know that sometimes it's hard for owners to wrap their brain around too many things so I see what they ask and I respond.

All friendly here, no worries.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Being a long thread, things can get lost in what is happening. 
Especially if a another question or situation arises and added to an already written thread.

That is why, it is a good idea to make a new thread for a new subject, so there is no confusion.

Very good advice was given here and shouldn't be ignored or cut down.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

Ok... I will pick up the anti toxin and what I can today in the next couple hours. I have vit c already on hand I can give them tho it is the adult 1000mg tablets (I can break or crush). 

NigerianNewbie... I don't know if you noticed but we live in different time zones. So trying to make me feel rushed or as tho I'm not doing things on your time line is not helpful. It's also not helpful to talk to me as tho I'm a horrible person for not being experienced or not know what I'm doing yet. I've had these goats less than a week. I am trying my best to learn all I can. And as stated im dealing with a lot with these 4, I've got a lot on my plate and I've got this information overload but I'm trying my best to take notes and learn and do what I can for them. Not to mention I've got a family of 5 and Ducks to take care of. But we wouldn't have gotten goats if we couldn't handle it. Tho we were only initially planning for the 2 girls, not the 4 and one having all these issues and a buck. Please don't fill my thread with lectures and rudeness. Everyone is just trying to help and answer questions as they come. I appreciate all your good advice and help along with everyone else's VERY MUCH. As I've stated I am new to all of this and am learning it all from scratch. I do not want to feel as though I'm being judged or shamed. I'm just trying to do all I can to better these goats situation. 

That being said, they go inside the barn at night where there is a heater and finished walls. They get fresh alfalfa hay daily. They've got their minerals and fresh water free choice. 

I will pick up b complex, probiotics, the antitoxin, and electrolytes. And I have more syringes. In pic was a roll of them. But being that they're only .50 cents I'll grab a few more just to have. 

Betsy is doing a lot better today. Her energy and mood is up. She's come running to me with the others every time I've gone outside. Her lip wound does not look infected. I took another pic when I cleaned it up this morning (below). The previous pic, as I said we just a lot of crust and that it looked a lot worse than it really is. I may not know much about goats but I do know much more than the average civilian about medicine and medical can l care. Tho being that I'm new to goats and knowing that goats are so different in many ways I wasn't sure how much of my medical knowledge would apply to them.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

JillZaHulk said:


> Ok... I will pick up the anti toxin and what I can today in the next couple hours. I have vit c already on hand I can give them tho it is the adult 1000mg tablets (I can break or crush).
> 
> NigerianNewbie... I don't know if you noticed but we live in different time zones. So trying to make me feel rushed or as tho I'm not doing things on your time line is not helpful. It's also not helpful to talk to me as tho I'm a horrible person for not being experienced or not know what I'm doing yet. I've had these goats less than a week. I am trying my best to learn all I can. And as stated im dealing with a lot with these 4, I've got a lot on my plate and I've got this information overload but I'm trying my best to take notes and learn and do what I can for them. Not to mention I've got a family of 5 and Ducks to take care of. But we wouldn't have gotten goats if we couldn't handle it. Tho we were only initially planning for the 2 girls, not the 4 and one having all these issues and a buck. Please don't fill my thread with lectures and rudeness. Everyone is just trying to help and answer questions as they come. I appreciate all your good advice and help along with everyone else's VERY MUCH. As I've stated I am new to all of this and am learning it all from scratch. I do not want to feel as though I'm being judged or shamed. I'm just trying to do all I can to better these goats situation.
> 
> ...


The pic is zoomed in... And NO I'm not going to put anything near her mouth or where she can lick it that she shouldn't eat. I will continue thoroughly cleaning the wounds and keeping an eye on them. But today it already looks better than it did yesterday.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Being a long thread, things can get lost in what is happening.
> Especially if a another question or situation arises and added to an already written thread.
> 
> That is why, it is a good idea to make a new thread for a new subject, so there is no confusion.
> ...


Oooh very good idea.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> The pic is zoomed in... And NO I'm not going to put anything near her mouth or where she can lick it that she shouldn't eat. I will continue thoroughly cleaning the wounds and keeping an eye on them. But today it already looks better than it did yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 163875


It is looking much better!!

You are trying your best and that's all we can ask. So keep up the good work and you'll get her through this.

As for the antitoxin, try your best to get it as soon as possible, better safe than sorry.

Definitely give 1000 mg of vitamin c. I also recommend 1-2 cloves of garlic daily.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

I don't know why but the app won't notify me of responses and I didn't get to see the last two or three responses until after I made my last. I am refreshing constantly to make sure everything is updated and I'm caught up before responding but then once I respond suddenly there are two or three mine and the one before


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

I went to tractor supply and ace.. tractor supply was out of the antitoxin and Ace doesn’t carry medications anymore. I called the next 5 closest tractor supply’s and ALL were out. The last one was able to look up inventory at other stores and none currently have it.. Wilco 45 miles away does. So I’m having my husband stop on his way home for it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> I went to tractor supply and ace.. tractor supply was out of the antitoxin and Ace doesn't carry medications anymore. I called the next 5 closest tractor supply's and ALL were out. The last one was able to look up inventory at other stores and none currently have it.. Wilco 45 miles away does. So I'm having my husband stop on his way home for it.


Do you have a vet?

They can give it to you, I hope.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Wow, that's a pain that they ALL ran out at the same time! 

I just wanted to reassure you that you're doing great, and this has seriously been a information overload with having a dog attack right off the bat. It's great that she's up and running with the others!


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Just so you know: some of us have a "better safe than sorry" attitude when treating a goat for anything BECAUSE they try very hard to hide pain, discomfort, and illness until it has become a REALLY big problem instead of a little one. It makes me jumpy, because I'm used to critters that whine a lot over little paper-cuts. It's because they are prey animals, and being seen as weak means you are going to be the biggest target if a predator walks by, so they hide all symptoms as well as they can.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

singinggoatgirl said:


> Wow, that's a pain that they ALL ran out at the same time!
> 
> I just wanted to reassure you that you're doing great, and this has seriously been a information overload with having a dog attack right off the bat. It's great that she's up and running with the others!


Thank you. I am trying. Yes, yesterday when I was at tractor supply closest to my house they had the antitoxin but I was advised to come back if she starts showing symptoms. Today they were sold out and no other location has any. They said they get it seasonally during spring and summer. But wheni called Wilco they have it. She is in much better spirits today and as the day goes on and the more time spent with her it seems the friendlier and happier she is towards us. I brought them some fruit and veggies with their probiotics and they were all out running and bouncing around, yes lol she was too.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You're doing great. Goats are funny creatures...they have the reputation of tough, ornery and able to eat anything. The problem is that they don't really live up to the reputation well. Medical knowledge is wonderful there's many nurses and paramedics and even a doctor or two on this forum. All of us were beginners at one time or another. The beauty of this forum is everyone here tries to help. We all love our goats and hate seeing one who needs help.
It's fantastic your husband is grabbing the antitoxin for you. It sounds like you're getting all the basics under control so you're on your way to being a great goat parent. When I first got goats it was a trial by fire situation similar to yours...everything that could go wrong did. Now a few years later it's still got it's ups and downs but I wouldn't change a thing. Those cute goats you have will grow on you. 
Hang in there!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> Thank you. I am trying. Yes, yesterday when I was at tractor supply closest to my house they had the antitoxin but I was advised to come back if she starts showing symptoms. Today they were sold out and no other location has any. They said they get it seasonally during spring and summer. But wheni called Wilco they have it. She is in much better spirits today and as the day goes on and the more time spent with her it seems the friendlier and happier she is towards us. I brought them some fruit and veggies with their probiotics and they were all out running and bouncing around, yes lol she was too.


If you don't want to give the antitoxin there are many herbal preventives but for someone inexperienced this is a more difficult procedure.

If you can purchase some of this: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p812/Herb_Mix_HerBiotic™_Wellness_Support_4_oz.html

And give some garlic and some cayenne for now.

NOT that I am recommending not to give the antitoxin -- but if you choose not to...


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If you don't want to give the antitoxin there are many herbal preventives but for someone inexperienced this is a more difficult procedure.
> 
> If you can purchase some of this: _Wellness_Support_4_oz.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p812/Herb_Mix_HerBiotic_Wellness_Support_4_oz.html
> 
> ...


About the garlic and the vitamin c from earlier... Lol how do I get them to eat it. Omg I know I haven't tried all that many things with them but for the most part they either eat things or they just turn to the next thing.. the garlic and the vitamin c were both like a cat sniffing something repulsive lmao they couldn't get it away from their mouths fast enough. Except Lucy (the little one) she tried chewing a piece and kept tossing it around in her mouth then spit it out picked it up again did the same then spit it out and was done with it. None of the others wanted anything to do with the garlic or the vitamin c. Is it like dogs where you kinda have to shove it half way down their throats, hold their chins up and mouths closed and pet their throats?? Is there a way to hide it in their foods?? That's a tricky one


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> About the garlic and the vitamin c from earlier... Lol how do I get them to eat it. Omg I know I haven't tried all that many things with them but for the most part they either eat things or they just turn to the next thing.. the garlic and the vitamin c were both like a cat sniffing something repulsive lmao they couldn't get it away from their mouths fast enough. Except Lucy (the little one) she tried chewing a piece and kept tossing it around in her mouth then spit it out picked it up again did the same then spit it out and was done with it. None of the others wanted anything to do with the garlic or the vitamin c. Is it like dogs where you kinda have to shove it half way down their throats, hold their chins up and mouths closed and pet their throats?? Is there a way to hide it in their foods?? That's a tricky one


I use the vitamin c gummies or the chewable tablets from GNC it took a couple of tries to get mine to eat them too. My goats won't touch garlic with a ten foot pole. My suggestion is...until you know them and they know and trust you,..other than critical things like vaccines and wound cleaning don't force the issue. They'll come around just keep offering.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Ways to give on second page: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/spillin-the-beans-my-favorite-healer-garlic-for-goats.204743/


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

If you do decide to shove something down their throats, stay FAR away from their back teeth! Those things are ridiculously sharp and strong!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

JillZaHulk said:


> NigerianNewbie... I don't know if you noticed but we live in different time zones. So trying to make me feel rushed or as tho I'm not doing things on your time line is not helpful.


My concern was zeroed in on the timeline for the well being of the goat. Tetanus is a hideous disease to contract and usually ends in an agonizing death.



JillZaHulk said:


> It's also not helpful to talk to me as tho I'm a horrible person for not being experienced or not know what I'm doing yet. I've had these goats less than a week. I am trying my best to learn all I can


Not having experience with goats is a place each and everyone of us has been. I don't see you as a horrible person because of not knowing what needs to be done.



JillZaHulk said:


> I do not want to feel as though I'm being judged or shamed.


I don't want you to feel judged or shamed either.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If you don't want to give the antitoxin there are many herbal preventives but for someone inexperienced this is a more difficult procedure.
> 
> If you can purchase some of this: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p812/Herb_Mix_HerBiotic™_Wellness_Support_4_oz.html
> 
> ...


Source:Merck Veterinary-Tetanus
***Incubation period varies from 1 to several weeks but usually averages 10-14 days.*** Local stiffness, often involving the masseter muscles and the muscles of the neck, the hindlimbs, and the region of the infected wound, is seen first; general stiffness becomes pronounced ~1 day later, and tonic spasms and hyperesthesai become evident. Mortality averages ~80%.

Shipping products takes days, the clock has already been ticking since the attack occurred. The suggested herbal blend is not proven to be a preventive against tetanus. The vaccination has been proven.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Not knowing the complete history of these goats is critical in this case. The OP can't be sure if they've had their CDT's or not. So, for the sake of the goat.. an ounce of prevention is worth giving the vaccine instead of messing with herbs. This isn't a disease to screw around with. IMHO. 

Yes, herbal things do have their place if you know what you're doing and you know the goat. They can be great. So no knocks there, but a battle about its usefulness right now isn't the time or place... IMHO. Sorry but this is getting ridiculous.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You can mix crushed garlic with a bit of olive oil and syringe feed it.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

I’m sorry I don’t have time at the moment to respond to everyone’s comments but I just want to say BETSY GOT THE ANTITOXIN YESTERDAY. Her Ear and lip are continuing to look much better. The humans kids think it’s funny that her ear is purple (from the wound kote). I’ll try and grab a couple pics and share them at some point. Her energy and friendliness and trust seems to all be improving as well. 

Now to attempt hoof trimming... this will be interesting. Seeing how she’s been playing and running around I don’t think she’ll be too sore to let me handle her feet.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Good luck! You got this


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

:clapping: :goodjob: Glad to hear she is improving and feels well enough to play!


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

As soon as I went out to the goats my husband was in the middle of sending my oldest son to his room and my daughter was getting sent in cuz she peed her pants. (Eye roll) my daughter woke up my youngest who I just got down for nap... Soooo I guess I've got a few mins before I head back out there.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Boy you have your hands full! Lol. Oklahoma state university has some really good you tube videos. Blue cactus dairy goats does too both cover hoof trimming if you're a visual learner. Just take it slow and you'll be fine. I'm so glad your doe Betsy is feeling better! Great job!


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

She's been doing fine with water hay and pellets. Today after trimming, I ended up trimming all of their hooves not just Betsys, she happily took some licorice treats, the others all go crazy for them but up until today she wouldn't Eat from our hands and seemed to care less about treats. Yay on that. And surprisingly Betsy wasn't the most difficult set of hooves to trim lol (Mama and Lucy were. Mama is the big white one and Lucy is the little white one).

I don't know why I'm surprised by this, being as how 3 of the 4 came from the same farm (where Betsy's from), but all of their hooves were nasty and overgrown. The pic of the hoof on the brown leg is Betsy after trimming. In a few days I'll go at it again and touch up. But for now it's a million times better than it was. The other hoof is Lucy, supposedly 4 months old and overgrown. The hoof I trimmed after I took this pic was worse than this one. Also attached are the pics of Betsy's ear and lip. Tho you can't see much thru all the purple on her ear.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

Here's the original of her lip owie. Circling it seems to have shifted after posting it...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sure they will feel better with their feet trimmed. Seems like she is healing up.


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## JillZaHulk (Oct 7, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> I'm sure they will feel better with their feet trimmed. Seems like she is healing up.


For the most part she doesn't seem to mind being the underdog or not being the head of the herd. She gets shoved away from the food and water all the time, I've actually ended up putting food and water on both sides of the barn to help avoid the fighting and make sure everyone gets what they need without getting shoved. She does seem a little sad or as tho she feels out of place at times but she's slowly coming around more. Might just be from the dog trauma, a PTSD type thing if you will. But she's been hanging out a lot today with Mama (the big white doe.. who does all the butting and shoving). I've seen them many times laying in the hay in the sun together. I'm just happy she's feeling better, getting along with the others, making friends, and trusting us to take care of her. This week has been one heck of a crazy one.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Oh my those hooves look SO much better!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear she is doing better and the antitoxin was given.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have to say and this is very important. Herbal or natural remedies should not be used in all situations.

For protection and to get it into the goats system quickly, do not use herbal or natural remedy, works way too slow, an antitoxin shot, is the best method.

It is risking the goats life, if the goat needs immediate or quick response.

I have to be sure this is known, so no one makes this mistake, to use herbal or natural remedies in critical or dangerous situations.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I have to say and this is very important. Herbal or natural remedies should not be used in all situations.
> 
> For protection and to get it into the goats system quickly, do not use herbal or natural remedy, works way too slow, an antitoxin shot, is the best method.
> 
> ...


If there is access to conventional methods, don't hesitate to use them.

Just to be clear, I recommended herbals in this situation because it seemed that the OP was unable to get the antitoxin. Herbs are better than nothing.

Very glad the OP was able to get the anti-toxin, though!! And I would always recommend using them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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