# My doeling has BALLS



## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

LITERALLY!!!

I swear I tried to wait to post this tomorrow when I can get pix buy I'm dying!

I did a trade locally my 10 week old Saanen/Boer buckling for her 9 week old Mancha/nubian doeling. We met on Craigs, live an hour & a half apart....

I'm 99.9% sure the doeling my hubby picked up today is a hermie... I'll post pics tomorrow.

She has a large upturned tip (ball) on the bottom of her vagina opening. She has what seems to be a ball sack with teets hanging from the bottom of it!

I know its hard w/out pics but has anyone ever seen a sac & a vagina/vulva (whatever)

IF the lady I got her from offers to trade her out..... should I since all she has is her sister & brother? She is out of trips.....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Wow, I've never heard of this exact situation before, hard to know without pics
Yes, if she'll swap definitely do so, some times defects happen and some aren't genetic.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Wow, that's crazy. I have heard of it before


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## Bonfire98 (May 25, 2013)

I didn't even know that was possible! Good luck!


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Is she a reputable breeder? I hope she didn't purposely sell you a bum doe for your buckling. I cant wait to see pictures. 

Side note: I really enjoy looking at your profile picture when it pops up! (Big fan here)


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

That sucks. Hopefully you can do a trade and get a real doe. I've seen a hermie before but not one with visible testicles. Definitely post a picture I wanna see it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, I.ve seen it twice. One Boer I saw had an enlarged primitive vagina and regular testes. Another, that I kept as a curiosity for a while, had a normal seeming vagina with a tiny penis in it. He was a perfect 2x2 and his testes were in the back 2 udder compartments.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Interesting. Sounds like a hermaphrodite...but not the usual looking hermaphrodite. I'm interested in seeing photos.

And yes, I would want to swap the kid for a new one if you were agreed a doeling in trade. Not sure if the breeder tried to scam you or what, but that seems like a pretty obvious defect if she was trading you a doe and handed you a hermaphrodite like that. :shrug: Hopefully she'll trade her out if you want.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I posted pictures on here of my doeling born last year who was a hermie. She had the odd vulva and a scotum with tiny teats. She was 1 of quads, 3 does, 1 buck. One normal doe, 1 hermie, 1 freemartin and the buck. 

Your description was identical to my doe. As she got older and matured, her vulva would enlarge and get stiff when she was aorund the does who were in heat. She never came in heat but did go into rut.

I would demand a real doe, since this one will probably never be any good for anything but a pet or a heat detector.

This doe of yours, how are her teats? Really really tiny?


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

We bought a doe with a 2 day old doeling, and a few months later noticed she was a he... But not the kind of he/she problem you're having ): Sorry you have to go through this!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

:scratch:


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

TrinityRanch said:


> Is she a reputable breeder? "Breeder- No, but a very reputable "home steader." In my (very rural New Mexican) area she is one of the well respected live off the land people.
> Neither of our kids are registered, my goats are a bit more spoiled & supplemented than hers but "word" is that her animals are well taken care of "the old school way"
> 
> I'll post a bunch of pics tomorrow, my camera died so I'm really hoping my kids cell does well, it should for what it cost !!
> ...


 I'm almost obsessed, changed my profile pics in honor of upcoming '50'

Another thing I noticed is how long 'her' hair is on her back legs & butt, not sure if its significant but its very long.

I've no clue what I'll do if she doesn't do a trade out, she's too thin to have butchered & hubby won't go along with a 'no purpose' goat adding to the feed bill. She's so darn cute with those mancha elf ears!!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I hope she will replace her! If not, surely you can find somebody who will take her as a pet.


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## vlinealpines (Sep 23, 2012)

Was he/she from two polled parents? We have Boy George and King Latifa who are fully equipped and the result of polled to polled matings. I got them to feed out for a BBQ. Funny looking.


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

I'd feed it out and eat it if I couldn't sell it as a pet/weed management...


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I'm still interested in the photo. As well as anyone else who's experienced it, it would be nice to try and get photos since most of us haven't seen it. I would try and trade politely first, if no response I'd be a little more firm you gave her a good goat and got one that is worthless. If it still doesn't work I guess I'd weight out how much feed I'd have to put in for butcher weight vs just finding a pet home.


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm pretty sure I have a hermie heifer calf. I'll get pics if I can


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## ASTONs Dairy (Aug 14, 2012)

Would love to see those pictures, Where you able to post them?


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## DonnaBelle66 (Mar 4, 2013)

I have a hermie goat I bought on purpose as a kid about 2 months old. She has a vulva, with a small bud at the base.

She also had 2 testes (balls) you could barely see just behind where her udder would be.

I took her to my vet, he took out the testes(balls) and let me watch the operation. Very interesting.

Of course, she cannot breed, but is a wonderful big girl and a great companion for my buck. She is very sweet natured but would have had mental problems if we had left the testes (balls) inside her, as she would have had both male and female hormones. 

Talk about PMS!!

DonnaBelle


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

*I might be 'nuts'*

Ok, I finally got hubby to use his cell for a couple pics, I said take 20.... He got 2! Can't wait till my camera is fixed!!

So, he says he thinks the "sac" is her udder..... She is an extremely scrawney 9 week old. Is that even possible??

Anyway, here are the pics I was able to get today, hopefully better ones to come....

Whatcha think? Am I nuts or does she have nuts??


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

That doesnt look like a normal 9 week udder


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

lovemykidds said:


> That doesnt look like a normal 9 week udder


All of my kids are between 10 & 14 weeks and they have no udder at all........


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Maybe she has a hormone imbalance? Causing her to have an udder?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Dayna said:


> Maybe she has a hormone imbalance? Causing her to have an udder?


This is what I thought.. I have seen it in a young doe before..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

This can be caused by feeding a lot of soybean meal. It's a nicely attached udder though and the teats are like a boers, not like a males. I would grow her out. The vulva looks normal to me.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I thought the vulva looks normal too. I'm really guessing that she's normal but might have a hormone issue.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I agree that she looks normal to me.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Her teats are very small though  Small for a 9 week old at least.

Unless it is grossing you out, try to squish it around in your hand and feel for testicles. This is a pretty interesting subject, by the way...


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Are they really that small or is it the angle of the pic? Since she is a Boer cross don't expect huge teats anyway... they're not known for really great udder or teat structure. I do think the hermie topic is.interesting though and something we probably all like to know more about


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I thought she was Nubian/LaMancha? Oh, nevermind then. I was merely comparing it to our dairy doelings, not meat, whoops!!


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

She is NOT a boer cross! She is 1/2 nubian & 1/2 mancha. That was how we ended up trading..... My kids are 25% boer & she wanted to add some "heft" She doesn't have anything that looks remotely Boer on her property.

Well, If everyone thinks her vulva looks normal & that I shouldn't worry about the udder.... She stays! Shes really sweet & has the cute elf ears!

She is switched to the same all natural/chemical free diet as everyone else, not sure what else to do for her other than try & get some meat on her bones & love her.

Her teets are longer than they look in the pic. 

Now to decide on a name.... Hope or Faith....?


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

TrinityRanch said:


> I thought she was Nubian/LaMancha? Oh, nevermind then. I was merely comparing it to our dairy doelings, not meat, whoops!!


She is...... No meat!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I love the name Faith!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

To gain some perspective on the teats, I'll take a pic of my LaMancha bucklings tomorrow.
I went back and scanned the breed, my bad.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

goathiker said:


> To gain some perspective on the teats, I'll take a pic of my LaMancha bucklings tomorrow.
> I went back and scanned the breed, my bad.


No sweat! I always value your opinion. In fact, I read your reply & told the hubd "Goathiker says good udder, normal looking vulva, we can keep her" LoL


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ohh ok I thought for some reason I thought she a cross. My bad!


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

Here's my 7 week old lamancha Nubian x doeling. No udder development. BUT since yours has actual teats I would have to say she's not a hermie. They have tiny teats.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Could it be a hormonal thing like Dayna said? I know it can happen in dogs, even really young ones.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

What do you feel? Looks can be deceiving, feel her and see if it feels like there is a testicle. If not, I'd guess hormones.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

^I agree! I had one doeling that I had to milk on a regular basis she was so full-she will probaly just grow up to be a heavy milker; mine is now producing over two gallons a day! And this is a really interesting subject....


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## Bonfire98 (May 25, 2013)

Maybe she was accidentally bred and lost her kid but since she is only 9 weeks probably not. She looks somewhat normal though... Idk...


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

The hubby does the milking around here & we've only had goats for 7 months making even what we feel "unsure" I thought it felt like a single teste he says it feels like an udder...

I've been reading about precocious udders (tho I can't find anything on a kid so young) Theres lots of stuff about milking out/not milking out, causing mastitis or infection. Drying it, leaving it....

Any advice??


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I have heard of people saying that a kid(or puppies or humans or any baby really) can get the hormones from mom during birth and it causes them to produce milk. I personally would leave it be. If it causes her pain check it out but otherwise don't. I had a doe that has been producing milk since she was 6-8 months old and is 6 years old now. I left her udder be but she kept producing so I milked her every few weeks. She's had kids since then but I sill cannot dry her off so I wean her down to being milked once every three weeks durring her "dry" times and feed her back her own milk to prevent mastitis.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

yes that looks like a normal maiden udder to me, I've seen it on 2 week old kids! I dont think you have anything to worry about, everything looks completely normal and its supposed to be a sign that the kid has good milking lines


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

Yipee!! I'm gonna go with "All is well"


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

well I'm glad you decided to keep her since you like her. I agree looks normal, if no teste feel then (as mentioned) maybe just a hormone in balance.


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## vlinealpines (Sep 23, 2012)

Here is a picture of a "doeling with balls." Definitely a hermaphrodite. Name is King Latiffa! We also have Girl George! I have seen over fifty of these freaks of nature and they can be so bizzare. King Latiffa is beginning to have a buck scent.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

vlinealpines said:


> Here is a picture of a "doeling with balls." Definitely a hermaphrodite. Name is King Latiffa! We also have Girl George! I have seen over fifty of these freaks of nature and they can be so bizzare. King Latiffa is beginning to have a buck scent.


Ohhhhh that's crazy!!! 
Thank you for the picture. 
But what is all that extra skin coming off of her "area"?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

emilieanne said:


> Ohhhhh that's crazy!!!
> Thank you for the picture.
> But what is all that extra skin coming off of her "area"?


I'm guessing that its other boy part is there? That's how it looks to me

Thank you for the pictures! Very educational!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Here are 3 pics of my freak. In one of them you can sort of make out a scrotum/udder, but it was hard to photograph. You could feel the testes inside the udder skin. She had absolutely NO polled genetics in her background for at least 10 generations!

It was so bizarre watching her around the does when they came in heat. That vulva/penis would get almost purple in color and get bigger and hard. She was more of a buck than my bucks are!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

My original herd of Alpine dairy goats (like 30 years ago!) had been bred for such high production, I had several precocious milkers. Some started as young as 4 weeks of age. My first buck (same breeder) had an udder and actually produced milk. (rather eye opening experience for a newbie!) 90% of his daughters had precocious udders, and boy, did they milk up a storm when they freshened! Placed wonderfully at shows too.

Your little girl looks normal to me.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

this is really common in cattle, heifers born twin to a bull are 90% hermaphrodite. i have heard of it in goats but have never seen it.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Enchanted goats what you are talking about in xattle is called freemartinism, it doesnt happen in goats.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I have seen more hermie Goats than any other species. Does it have something to do with gene mutation? I'm not sure how all that works.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Yes, there are freemartins in goats. I had one. Its rare but it does happen. Probably more common than thought tho. I've known several goat people over the years who had does who just never would breed, no known cause. Every one of them had a male in the birth. The testing is pricy 50.00 or so on a blood draw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemartin

UC Davis does testing on goat freemartins. I had it done. XXXY.

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/goat.php

I grew up with a hermie male in the neighborhood. Thought he was a he, but was actually a she. They didn't know it until puberty hit and he started having real bad belly pains. They thought it was appendicitis (this was before MRI's and such-mid 60's). When they operated, they discovered a uterus. The scrotum was actually empty, just full of fluid.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I suppose i should have been more specific. Freemartins are extremely rare in polyoctus animals such as goats. 

Regardless, the original kid is just a maiden milker.


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## vlinealpines (Sep 23, 2012)

Kin Latiffa is the result of polled to polled breeding. (I didn't do it. I know better) From what I have read on the subject is that the polled gene is dominant, but there is a recessive gene that lies close to that gene that causes the problems. There has been some research with goats on this inter-sex characteristic as it applies to humans with the same condition.


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