# EMERGENCY: goats got into grain supply



## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

One is dead, rest are staggering around with diarrhea. Apparently happened yesterday, just found out today. I am 1.5 hours away and leaving now, will check computer when I get home. Any help would be greatly appreciated, prayers especially. Thanks yall.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Mineral oil, bloat release; something to help them move things along. 

Get them up and walking around don't let them lay down. 

Prop fron half of goat up on a cinder block or something and massage the rumen on the goats left side. 

This is all if they are bloated. If the grain was moldy or something there would be other steps. 
:hug: ray:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I imagine you are provably dealing with acidosis not bloat, given the diarrhoea ... Fluid therapy, milk of magnesia and bicarb soda, anti inflammatories, pain meds, antibiotics ... I would suggest you call a vet if you havent got these things on hand, if you arent experienced in treating lactic acidosis. They may need their fluids subcut or iv depending on how badly they are dehydrated


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Also probiotics, or if you can get cud from a healthy goat and give it to thesick ones, even better. 

If these are really valuable goats and really sock the rumen can be surgically.emptied.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree keren...sounds more like acidosis....Prayers sent that way ...hope they will be OK...sorry you lost one....  :hug:


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

hey all, thanks for the suggestions. We lost two, one more is looking really bad and another is 50/50. Of the others (I have 25), Id say a dozen or more are not 100% but I will have to wait til tomorrow to know better.

So far we dosed them with 24cc of Pepto and got some mineral oil & baking soda into the weakest. I left out pans of baking soda, mineral oil & water, and Pepto for them to have if they want it. They are not bottle babies, so they are friendly enough but dont like being worked with. They wont be caught if they dont want to be. To me thats a good sign that they still have some pep in them and might pull through. 

Ill be doing some more research on acidosis. If you have any further input, advice, wishes, etc, they are greatly appreciated. 

Any rec's on dosing with GasX or Bean-o?

As to how they got into the grain, they are in a pen with emus and the emu feeder has a sliding door that they figured out how to open. That has been screwed shut. The landowner (I lease the property) said he had just put in 100 pounds of grain. It looks like they ate the better part of a 50# bag. 

Again, thanks for your help. Its great knowing you all are here :grouphug: Im really gonna miss Grandma, our herd leader. She was such a sweet gal! She was blind in one eye but a great leader and so dependable. She had a mischevious streak to her but I loved her all the same. The saddest part is she was just a few days a way from bringing her little ones into the world  RIP Grandma, you'll be missed very much.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Found this on another site that may help...


Goats got into the grain and ate too much...
If you have vitamin B complex on hand or better yet Fortified Vitamin B complex on hand (the fortified has more thiamine in it- it has 100mgs/ml as opposed to the regular VitB complex which has 12.5mgs/ml ) and this is what you are looking for because thiamine is a prescription medication and most people do not have it- if you do then give every one an injection of 200mgml strength thiamine. I use 1cc/100lbs goat weight and if this has caused goat polio (too much carbs or grains) then the thiamine will quickly reduce the symptoms which can be blindness, drunken behavior, and stargazing.

Vitamin B 1 (thiamine) is necessary for carbohydrate metabolism and normal neural activity. When metabolism slows down as a result of inadequate amounts of thiamine, cells die and brain swelling occurs. With Polioencephalomalacia (Goat Polio), there is a shift in rumen micro-organisms and a change in metabolism that consumes all the thiamine made in the rumen. A high carbohydrate diet (lots of sacked grains) containing high levels of sulfur (greater than 0.30% of total diet) appears to be a major cause of Goat Polio. Thiamine injections are required to overcome this condition. Additionally, less sacked grains (carbohydrates) must be offered as a percentage of total diet to allow the rumen flora to return to normal. Soybean meal is a great protein source for goats, but it also contains a high level of sulfur. High-protein diets with soybean meal as the primary protein source along with the "sulfate" variety of many minerals can lead to a diet high enough in sulfur to create polioencephalomalacia.

Thiamine deficiency in a goat can produce life-threatening conditions. The producer is advised to administer thiamine whenver a goat becomes ill. Usage of Fortified Vitamin B Complex is even better, because it contains Vitamin B 1 as well as other necessary B vitamins. The writer uses four cc's per hundred pounds bodyweight every 12 hours. Since all B vitamins are water soluble, overdosing is difficult and the margin of safety is wide. Better too much than not enough when administering B vitamins.

Also make sure yo do not give more grain at all for a few days- expect scouring (diarrhea) and prepare for bloat- have baking soda on hand to give orally for the bloat.

Ideally you should have CD anti toxin (dosage is 1cc/5lbs goat weight every 6 hours SubQ injection) on hand for the reversal of the toxins that will grow in the gut- If any of your goats does not seem to get better by tomorrow call a vet and let them know what happened so they can administer CD anti toxin for the possible enterotoxemia that may happen in the gut due to the overload of grain.

Offer the baking soda or give to them mixed with a small amount of water on a teaspoon and then massage the left side upper belly (rumen) to get it going again. Also if they stop chewing cud then call the vet (I mean for a couple hours or so or if they look sick call the vet)


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks TBG. I will try to get some CD tomorrow. Im worried that this might be a slowly developing problem over the next couple days.

I found this on eHow re: lactic acidosis in goats. (http://www.ehow.com/how_5642066_treat-r ... goats.html) Any comments?

1) Isolate the goat; check skin for paling. Check the heart rate. This can be done by listening to the goat's chest of at the level of the elbow when the goat is standing. If the rate is over 100 beats per minute, notify the vet. Likewise call the vet if the animal staggers.

2) Remove all sources of feed and water for 12 to 24 hours except half a day's ration of high-quality hay. Do not feed alfalfa hay. Avoid free access to water as it will promote bloating.

3) Exercise the goat. Walking will get things moving in the digestive tract. Walk the goat 5 to 10 minutes every hour.

4) Administer 1 tbsp. Milk of Magnesia orally followed by 1 oz. water to an adult goat. Magna-Lax is the veterinarian equivalent of Milk of Magnesia. Always keep it on hand for ruminal acidosis. Authorize the vet to medicate with antibiotics and thiamin.

5) Drench the goat with 50 g of magnesium hydroxide or magnesium oxide in a liter of warm water. This dosage is for a goat weighing 155 lbs. Knead the rumen. Wash the rumen with 10 to 15 irrigations of tepid water until the fermented grain is pumped out.

6) Authorize vet to administer fluids intravaneously if needed. Authorize the vet to surgically remove the grain from the rumen if needed.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

ps. Im confused about #2 and #5. If water promotes bloat (2) then why irrigate with water (5)? Shouldnt I give them free choice drink?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the goats are dying from this ....they must of gotten quite a bit of grain ..which is very toxic to them....I recommend getting a vet to see them as quick as possible....they sound pretty bad.....a vet can do more procedures and methods ect to flush their systems quicker ...to possibly save them .....Please have a vet see them.... :hug: ray:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh no! :hug: Good thoughts and prayers headed your way. I have nothing to add...looks like you've got alot of help already. I've never dealt with something like this. I do agree with Pam, if you can get a vet to work on them may be your best bet. Hang in there and please let us know how it goes. :hug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

please DO NOT restrict water!!!!!

they have bad diarrhoea therefore they are losing a lot of fluid, they NEED to be able to replace it!

withholding water only works immediately after finding them in the grain


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks keren, KWF. I didnt restrict water. I thought that sounds a little fishy!


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm so sorry...they can be pretty sneaky.. Hope they get better soon.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

update: lost a total of 3, one more is looking really ragged, about 3/4 of the herd is affected. The kiko and boer/kiko does are my biggest concern as they are the core of the herd and its future. Lots of muddy butts and low energy today. I redosed with 1.5 oz of Pepto and and 1 oz of mineral oil/water/baking soda. Im hoping the mud butt is a sign that they are passing the grain. A few look fairly bloated but not as bad as the ones who died. Most are nibbling hay which should work to bring the rumen back to a proper pH. My biggest concern at this point is that this has the potential to be a slowly developing problem with the worst of it coming in a day or two. I greatly appreciate your continued prayers and support! :grouphug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so sorry this is happening to your goats. I hope and pray the rest will get over this and make a full recovery!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent... ray: :hug:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

ray: :grouphug:


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

Last month I had my older does 120 of them get out and go into the cornfield across the road.
One of my favorite goats died the next morning. Upon posting her, I always do this with all animals that die, I found a very large amount of un chewed corn probably a 3 lb. coffee can full. And no vet could have cut her open removed it and had her live. This was the last field harvested close to me and the amount of down corn was amazing, they were out maybe 45 min.
I could have saved her with an anti-toxin drench had I known how bad things were. When I got to her she had just quit breathing.
The amount of corn and type of corn, yellow field with the hard tannin covering is pretty much not palatable for weeks if not months. 
When I got them in I ground them about 500lb of 1st cut alfalfa, to dilute and push the corn through. I also put out 5 lbs of sodium bicarb free choice, sure they were loose for 2-4 days after that but I limited my losses.
Also several years ago I had 50 doelings eat ground corn and lost 8. I filled my freezer with 7 of them, I was there when they expired. The vet no longer my vet, told me to give them sodium bicarb and water. The bicarb foamed up when they swallowed it and for 4 of them that was it. The whole thing was terrible. 
Lessons learned at our animals expense are the hardest, and most valuable.
These are 2 totally different scenarios since my doe died of poisoning and my doelings died of bloat, or the swelling of the corn. 
Nothing could have saved the doelings, I could have saved my doe.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are they today? :hug: ray:


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

That was 3 weeks ago tomorrow. You wouldn't know it happened by looking at them, except a little left overs on their tails. They have started kidding this week-end 3 does 6 kids, and the kids are big and got great energy, just below freezing and are outside. I have 32 in my heavy pen and look for the next low to come in Tues nite through Thursday, will have lots of kids then, the other 70 bred does are bagging up and the 25 doelings it never phased. I run a one buck operation so they will string out into March
Back to the does, this is not my first close call and when you graze alfalfa, soy beans and pine trees things happen, I only lost 2 this summer on the alfalfa.
I can tell you this much, Gas X strips have saved more goats for me then any want to be Vet in my area. I do have a goat Vet I can call if I think I need a second pair of eyes, and she has goats.
But for the most part If I cant fix the goat it dies plain and simple, if its on its feet I do anything I can, if its down and cant get up I do not let it suffer I put it down. Their will be no goat going to a Vet But of course this is the meat goat side of things, I have a pet, dog and she works hard too.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

I lost one of the boki does two nights ago but it looks like the rest are on the mend. I switched over to Milk of Magnesia instead of Pepto b/c it is more effective at bringing the pH back in line. It is also a laxative so that concerned me as I didnt want them getting too dehydrated. Anyway, I think the worst is over. I will be keeping a close eye on them but they seem to be recovering. Appetites have improved and they have a bit more energy. All in all, a painful and expensive lesson


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2012)

I feel for you, as long as you learned from it it was not for nothing, its when we repeat our mistakes that we pay the most.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That was 3 weeks ago tomorrow. You wouldn't know it happened by looking at them, except a little left overs on their tails. They have started kidding this week-end 3 does 6 kids, and the kids are big and got great energy, just below freezing and are outside. I have 32 in my heavy pen and look for the next low to come in Tues nite through Thursday, will have lots of kids then, the other 70 bred does are bagging up and the 25 doelings it never phased. I run a one buck operation so they will string out into March


So glad... they are doing good....love hearing that.... and the babies are healthy.... :thumb: :greengrin:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad that the rest are pulling thru fine.


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