# Mama not eating/drinking



## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I have a goat that just kidded on the 3rd of Feb. She is not eating, and hardly drinking anything. She will take a sip here and there but nothing substantial. I have given her some Jump Start paste, and tried to hand feed. Nothing...She started off being a good mom (feeding kids, being protective, keeping them warm, etc.) Last night when we were adjusting the heat lamps, she decided to jump over the wall and leave her kids. We got her back in, but she wanted nothing to do with them at first. We went out there this morning and she was laying away from her kids and on her own. We brought the kids over to her and she didn't stand for them. She laid there looking at us like she was being stubborn and just didn't want to have anything to do with these kids. We stood her up and got the kids to suck and she wanted to kick them away. We stopped her of that and she finally let the kids eat. We left, and as we walked out we noticed that she still hadn't touched her feed or water. Any ideas? We tried Jump Start, do we try Nutri-drench? Vitamins? Selenium? Or do you think she is just being a bad mom? 

Other question. Seeing as she is being particularly fussy about the kids, do we bother to try and offer bottles incase she isn't feeding them like she should? I am more worried that they are not getting the colostrum they need, or the amount of nutrients. Her bag always looks really full, like they are not eating much. Suggestions? Thanks


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Try milking her out enough to relieve her udder. It may hurt her and that is why she is 
not letting the kids nurse. If the kids are active, have full but not real rounded bellies, she is 
feeding them. (they eat in little bits- usually not all at one time). 

Nutra drench is good. Hopefully, someone will chime in about the doe not eating.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to get a temp on mom. Also check her udder and teats over carefully. Make sure she has milk and it is ok. A mom who was good initially usually has something going on if she stops nursing her kids.

I would try offering a bottle to the kids if she isn't nursing.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

She does have milk to give. I milked her a little bit last night to make sure. The kids are not real active yet. They like to lay under the heat lamp. If you take them out of the hut, they walk around for a little while, but not to long. Then they go back into the hut an fall asleep.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

The photo of the kids standing is from when they were born. The ones where they are laying down are taken last night. They were only active probably 5 min total.

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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

The milk I get from mom, do I feed it back to the kids, or just disguard it? I don't really ever remember seeing a does bag so big when she has kids nursing. I will try the nutria-drench, and milking some from her. She will not like me, but she will have to get over it. 

When I checked to see if she was producing milk last night, she looked back at me like "I am a kiko and too good for this".

I hope she eats soon!! :hair:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If the milk is ok, then feed it to the kids. You need to do something now before you lose them. You also need to figure out what is going on with mom. I would be getting a temp on her and I would also be doing a fecal to include coccidia. I would also look for any other symptoms because there just isn't enough to go on.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would get mom up. hold her and hold one of her back legs so she can not kick the kids. Let them nurse and nurse. They need to get that milk down and it will help mom from hurting so much.

 If you have B12, that is what I would give her. I believe I gave my 200# Cashmere doe like 10CC, they will pee out what they don't need, It will stimulate her appetite. Offer her Molasses water, as hot as you can get it. Make it a good strong tea color. 

 I would plan on going out every few hours and holding mom to get those babies to nurse. If you don't she will get mastitis and you will either be bottle feeding those babies or they will not make it.

 Those are some adorable babies and they look to be rather big as well.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

We have been going out to hold her so the kids can eat. I will try some molasses water and b12. I will also milk out some and feed it to the kids. I had to run into town for a bit and I will do that as soon as I get home! Thanks for all the help. I will get a temp also. I will be a one man band doing all of this but I'll get it done. Usually I have a helper. Thanks. 


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Also. Both kids were 9lbs ea. at birth. 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, get a temp on her.

Has she dropped her afterbirth?
Does it stink back there?
Is she shivering?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

agilitymaster01 said:


> Also. Both kids were 9lbs ea. at birth.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


I thought they looked big.

 Pam I believe it was the babies shivering not momma but I could be wrong.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Neither were shivering. She doesn't stink and I saw the afterbirth. The cats ate it. (That is the only thing those buggers are good for. Yes. When I know a temp and things I will post more. I hope I go home and she ate all of her good and the kids are running around. 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If her temp is normal, no grain, just hay and give fortified vit B complex for 4 days or so.

If she has a high temp, no grain, just hay, start antibiotics.

I ask if momma was shivering because I suspected possible milk fever.

If she doesn't have a bad odor back there and dropped her afterbirth that is good.

Try to give her warm molasses water and see if she will drink.
If not, get a syringe and feed her some very slowly. If you have electrolytes too that would be good.

She needs something to eat, get alfalfa pellets, grind them up and soak them, make it to where you can easily get it to go into a big 30 to 60 cc syringe and slowly feed her some at the back corner of her mouth. Just a little bit, make it fresh each time. go out every 2 hours and feed her just a little bit. 
Have free choice hay out for her, if she starts to eat on her own them you don't have to force feed her.
By doing this it keeps her rumen going and helps her build her strength back.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok. Here is what I did tonight...

Took her temp. 103.7
Gave 5oz water
Gave 5oz warm molasses alfalfa pellet water (she drank some on her own after I forced it with a big syringe. 
Gave 20cc of nutri-drench
Gave 5cc fort vit b complex
And gave 1 large spoon full of yogurt.

When I left I saw her licking more yogurt, and eating some loose minerals. I left for her in the pen for free choice...ymcp water, molasses water, loose minerals, a cup of pellets (w/ yogurt on the side), and lots of hay and alfalfa cubes.

I also mixed up some colostrum replacer for the kids to see if they would drink. They drank a little about an ounce each.

I tried milking her. I got a very small amount at first then it was like she relaxed. The kids were bumping her so I let one take over where I was. He sucked for awhile and then moved to the other side. He switch back and forth a lot. I mean maybe 5 seconds and he switched. Same amount of time and he switched again. So I milked her again. Sure enough she had some. 

Could she just be withholding her milk from her kids? It is not like they were starving and she is being protective. I put one of out 2 week old kids in with her and she stood In front of her kids that were under the heat lamps. 


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she is sick, she may be. She does have a little temp. Hopefully this will help her.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

She can somewhat not let her milk down. If she is in pain they will do that. Is her utter really tight? Hot? Make sure your address able to milk some out it sound like you are. Milk her out to get the bag down and save that milk. She chilly have a slight temp because she is hurting from her utter. 

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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I will milk out alloy more tomorrow. I didn't want to take a whole lot tonight. I will take more tomorrow now that I know the kids will suck from a bottle. (Just incase) her bag did not feel hot to me at all. I did notice she had diarrhea. I think tomorrow I am going to give her some bounce back if she is not eating and still has loose stool. 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she is scouring, she may have worms and/or cocci from the stress of kidding. Can you get a fecal to find out?

You are doing a good job and the right things helping her.

I would keep an eye on that temp, if it gets any higher, I would consider antibiotics. 

Her udder not letting milk down, some can hold back and I have seen it with some of my Does in certain situations. I want to milk them for different reasons. They get protective of it and will literally hold their milk, but right after, allow her kids to nurse. It's frustrating.

Make sure, her teat plugs are totally cleaned out of the orifices(not plugged up), sometimes we don't get it all out of there, so her flow isn't as good.

Glad the kids are taking the bottle in case. If she is tight, milk her so she is not as tight , you don't have to milk her totally out, just make her comfortable and not so sore, unless she has mastitis, then milk her out and treat her. 

Allow the kids to nurse and monitor their bellies to make sure they are OK.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I don't know where to get a fecal done. Can we just treat her for worms to be sure or no because it will harm the kids? When I milked out a little, it was not red in color or have a funky smell to it. It was not lumpy either. (Just going from what cows get)

I am going to go through milking her out some tonight, and try a temp again. She ate a few pellets this morning


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Any large animal vet should be able to do a fecal for you.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

To-do list tonight when I get home...

Give Penicillin
wormer
vit B
take temp
Milk her (mostly out)
try feeding kids again (I have noticed them going back and forth from teat to teat as if they are not getting anything)
try feeding mama
give her water (normal, and molasses/alfalfa)

Any additional suggestions, or things to be removed?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you worm her then I would use all the types of dewormer to make sure you hit everything.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

3 types?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What kinds of wormers can you get a hold of or have on hand?
Mike sure you check her gums and lower inner eyelid color first, if she is anemic, we need to hit her gently with wormers.
If her gums are a decent pink, it is OK to worm her normally.
If you do worm her, you will have to do it again 10 days later to get the hatching eggs.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

We have ivermec. We can get valbazen. I cannot recall seeing any other options around us.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Do you have ponds around, where the goats can get to them? If so, liver flukes can arise. Ivomec plus covers them. Not safe for preggo's.
If you do not have ponds ect, you should be OK, just to use regular Ivomec cattle inj , but give it orally. I give 1 cc per 33lbs. Just make sure, the goat isn't anemic to start. Ivomec inj, covers a lot of the worm issues. Treat again 10 days later to get the hatching eggs.

Valbezen takes care of tape worms. Do you see any tape worm segments in their stool?


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

My dad asked about oxitocin. Would that maybe help at all? So ivermec, can it be givin sq if she isn't eating much? She did eat some hay last night. What about valbazen?


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

If ok to give how much would you recommend?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

agilitymaster01 said:


> My dad asked about oxitocin. Would that maybe help at all? So ivermec, can it be givin sq if she isn't eating much? She did eat some hay last night. What about valbazen?


Oxytocin is a very powerful med and should be used with care and under instruction. It should be used on Does that are open and finished kidding, within a certain time frame. Helps to drop the afterbirth, if it is hanging to long, but she is still open. It can be used shortly after kidding for milk letdown as well, with a very small dose. If the Doe is given too much or is not open, you can risk killing the Doe. Why is your dad inquiring about it?

For goats, Ivomec is given, unless the Doe is anemic. Then it is best given SQ. And is safe

To increase appetite, give Fortified vit B complex and give her high doses each day, If she is a small breed adult, give 6cc's, for larger breed adult, give her 10cc, I know it is a lot but, it really boosts appetite and is safe to use, she will pee out what her body does not need, Give probiotics too.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

He asked because this is his goat. He keeps his with mine and it is somewhat of a joint goat farm for a couple years until I can take over the entire thing. Thanks for the assistance. I work 12 hour days over the weekend, so I am definitely forwarding this on to him. He takes care of them on the weekend unless it is a dire emergency. 

Thanks for the help!! I will keep you posted.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Also, he is super super green at raising goats. He knows (knew) nothing about raising them. I have helped my friend, and my cousin with their goats, so I have some background, but not a whole lot when it comes to issues and things. (such as this) That is why I LOVE this forum. People are always so willing to help you out the best they can. Thanks a bunch


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would also want to use Sulmet or DiMethox for coccidia.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I did some looking and I can order both on Jeffers website. Which do you prefer, and maybe a recommended dose for goats? I see the DiMethox label just has cattle dosage on it and the sulmet has foul cattle and swine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I use something different for cocci treatment, so can't help with the question there, hopefully someone will come along soon to help.


Glad to help, keep us updated on how things are going. Learning about them is a good thing to do. Glad you are here.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

What do you use?


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

There are soooo many options. Lol I'm learning tons!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Which ones can you get? Either is normally dosed at 1cc per 5 lbs day one and 1cc per 10 lbs days 2-5


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I can get ahold of either on the Jeffers livestock website. The sulmet is a water additive or tablets(?), and the other is injectable or water additive.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get injectable. Easier to deal with.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

It says iv only on the Jeffers website.

"Can be given to beef cattle up to 5 days before slaughter. Give 1 mL (IV only) per 16 lbs of body weight, for initial dose, then reduce by 1/2 for 3-5 days. 60-hr milkout."

Taken from Jeffers website. Does this sound right? Here is the link.

http://www.jefferspet.com/di-methox-injection-40/camid/LIV/cp/A2-AE/


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is what I buy and use orally.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Which ones can you get? Either is normally dosed at 1cc per 5 lbs day one and 1cc per 10 lbs days 2-5


So do this orally with the brand on the link? I can do this. I need to place an order anyway. Thanks


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

She is back to eating and drinking like her normal self. I did start to offer her Sprout Goat Mineral (loose) which is a gray mineral, 14% salt, 40ppm Selenium and 1400 ppm copper. She is eating that like it is going out of style. She ate approx. 3lbs worth. Do we give her more, or hold off? I know goats are selfmedicators and eat minerals if they need them. Do we fill her bucket again or is she over doing it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can keep it out. Those numbers aren't super high so she should be fine.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Good to hear. Thanks


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree and I love hearing that she is improving.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Kids only grew 2 lbs their first week. Now that she is eating, hopefully the kids will get more from her. They ate a little from the bottles, but not like they were starving.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok guys...I gave both kids 4cc of nutria drench each last night. When we checked them this morning, they were like completely different kids. They were acting normal. They were adventures, bouncy, and energetic. Now...The mom is a nervous nelly when we are in the barn. (not sure why) We have checked her milk production, and she has lots now.  Problem is that when we are in there we don't see the kids eat. If we watch, it is like she freezes up (stage fright). 

Now for the question...Because giving the nutria-drench to the kids made them act normal, does that mean the mom is not feeding them as they should be, or that they need a daily, weekly, or monthly doseage? 

Please, PLEASE assist. The kids were lethargic, and the drench made them "better"  Temporarily . (we do try bottle feeding morning and night, but they resist, and fight us all the time. They drink, but only because it drips down their throat I'm sure.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Time will tell on that. If mom was ill and not feeding, then they would be lethargic. If she is well now, just keep an eye on them. You could also weigh the kids daily to see if they are gaining. I use a hanging fish scale. You need a scale that weighs in pounds and ounces or pounds and tenth of pounds so you can see the small gains or losses.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

So far we have been weighing every week. They only gained a pound and a half in one week. Our other kids grew about 4 lbs. in a week for the first week. These guys are not progressing that fast.  sigh I know it is because of the mom not eating at first. So do you suggest maybe giving nutria-drench once next week also, or just wait and time will tell?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can do that. It certainly won't hurt. Personally I would weigh them daily for now to see if mom is properly nursing the kids now. If the scale only weighs in pounds, I would buy the fish scale. You need to know what the daily gain or loss is and you won't see it in pounds only.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok. I will pick one up tonight that weighs in Lbs and Oz. Thanks for the help...again


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