# Doe with "hard bag"



## brokenbeauregard (Jul 27, 2013)

I had a doe kid out twins Saturday. She had a nice full udder and last year had twins and produced 2+quarts a day and was taking good care of the babies. Yesterday I noticed they didn't look right. Seemed lethargic and when they'd stand they were hunched up and looked to be shivering. Brought them in, took temperatures on both. Both perfectly normal but still acting strange so I checked the doe and her udder was hard and I could only get minimal milk out of either side. The bag is large, and hard but not hot or tender. The milk that does come out is fine. 
I've since learned (still new to goats and first year actually having babies here), that " hard bag" is a manifestation of CAE. Unfortunately, she is CAE positive( it was an accidental breeding). So my question is about the kids. What do I do with them? I pulled them and gave them colostrum replacer and know they will be bottle babies but can I keep them with the momma? She's been crying for them I worry that them being with momma but having to bottle feed will confuse them. The little girl is good about taking the bottle but the little boy simply bites and yanks and won't suckle or latch on, so I've been tube feed him. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If you aren't concerned with the transmission of CAE to the kids, keep them with her and bottle feed. Good chance they've been exposed already.
You can try warm compresses on her udder to ease the hardness and it may help with the congestion. 
I would bottle them every few hours to ensure they are getting enough and being with mom will help them know they are goats.


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## brokenbeauregard (Jul 27, 2013)

I was going to pull them at birth, because of the CAE, but she had them secretly and they had already nursed when I found them any suggestions on getting the boy to take the bottle? I had 2 bottle babies last year and they were much better at taking to it from the get go


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

for mom, you need to help her with the congestion, then dry her up unless you need her milk...warm compresses, Peppermint Ess. Oil mixed with Coconut oil and vit e makes a nice balm..the peppermint helps loosen things up and increases circulation. Warm,, massage and knead..milk repeat...

Babies are already infected with CAE...:sad: 
to get the buck to take the bottle, put honey on your finger andlet him suck it off ..do this several times until he is going strong... have a warm bottle of milk ready with honey on the nipple, offer your finger again with honey and once he is sucking it off slip the nipple in..he will taste the honey first then the milk...

best wishes


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## brokenbeauregard (Jul 27, 2013)

Ok so I've put the babies back with the momma, she wasn't sure who they were at first. Lol. I had them off if her for about 24 hrs. I went to check on the babies and one had a nice full belly, others was not. Held momma and checked her out again. One side seems okay and soft. The other side is hard and the little bit I got out was a strange color. It was a milky, clearish with a yellowish tint, but I only got a little. Is this normal with hard bad to have one side okay and the other not? How much do I need to worry about them nursing off the bad side? Will one side produce enough milk for two BIG babies? They were 7lbs 5 oz and 7lb 12oz when I weighed them. I'm use to 3lb babies!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would continue to work on the hard side.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't think one side will be enough for 2 kids. Also I agree to bottle feed them but don't totally fill them up....keep them a little hungry so they help you with mommas bag. I have this same thing going on with my Nubian. Her bag is so big big she can hardly walk. I've been working on her and also letting the kids suck like crazy. We are finally to a point where she can almost fill her kids up but sadly we still have a ways to go. Just keep doing warm washcloths or what was suggested above....I use Vicks but do that and keep rubbing. Every time I go out to water or I have nothing better to do I go out and work on her and it is a total pain.


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## alicejane (Jan 15, 2014)

Why can't you put her on penicillin for a few days? My understanding is it helps thin the milk making it easier to flow & clearing any infection? Also with banimine for pain & inflamation? My vet has given this plus other meds. Just wondering? Thanks


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## brokenbeauregard (Jul 27, 2013)

Now it seems the babies have developed a bit of scours since they have been going back on forth between momma and formula I know I can give them pepto for
The scours but I don't remember how much....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes that would cause scours...It would be better to milk mom and feed her that..or even whole cows milk would be better than formula..
For the scours...if its just ploppy, give pepto , 5 cc
If her scours are super runny..Give the pepto, .back off milk for 12-24 hours and give electrolytes instead...once she firms up you can re introduce milk..

this recipe is alot, you can cut it down to suit your needs
Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


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