# To buy or not to buy...?



## Flstcbob

:think:So I have been pondering this for a while now and I would love to hear some opinions from some more experienced boer goat breeders. My family and I have just recently bought our small beginner herd and our first buck in August. We are currently deciding to buy another buck and a couple more does and have found these two.

I want to add color to my herd, but I don't want to completely miss out conformation wise. It's hard trying to decide between the two. Please give be both pros and cons with honesty! If they don't seem to be an improvement, then _neither_ will be purchased. They are of the same father.

The pictures aren't of them set up, so I am sorry for that and the lack of front pictures. These are what I have received from their owner and probably the best she could work with.

First up is a buckling born 10/27/13. :rose:

























Second is a buck born 5/10/13 so he is almost 8 months.


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## mountaingoats12

I don't have experience with boers, but there's something about the first one that I dont like.... the second one looks thick and seems to have a straight top line and I THINK he is the better one, IMO anyways


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## Flstcbob

Thanks for the reply! I'm sure the first one will get bigger as he ages since he's only a couple months old. They are also selling him for less and maybe that has something to do with his projected size... I'm not sure. We are trying to find a nice long buck since our current one is a short stocky fellow :-D and we aren't having much luck.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch

He looks to have a more shallow heartgirth, but 2 months is very awkward time to judge conformation. He sure looks BIG for that age though!


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## mountaingoats12

Yeah, I noticed the age difference afterwards. I personally think they are both beautiful animals, I'd be glad to have one! Someday I'm gonna get boers.....


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## springkids

I love the second one..but I bet with a little time the young black one will fill out nicely. He sure has the size for his age. It's hard to be sure but I think he has good potential. But with that being said I am no expert on critiquing. But I think they are both nice bucks!!


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## Flstcbob

zebradreams07 said:


> He looks to have a more shallow heartgirth, but 2 months is very awkward time to judge conformation. He sure looks BIG for that age though!


I actually had to look up a heartgirth because that is news to me! I love critiques because I learn something :: and I wouldn't have noticed so thank you. Maybe a picture of his sire and dam would help since he's so young?



mountaingoats12 said:


> Yeah, I noticed the age difference afterwards. I personally think they are both beautiful animals, I'd be glad to have one! Someday I'm gonna get boers.....


I think so too :-D If and when you do get your first boer, you will fall in love with them. I have never seen so many sweet dispositions in so many goats. I personally want to get a nubian. They just shout "LOVE ME!" hehe


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## COgoatLover25

I'm no expert breeder, but have a lot of nice bucks , like I said I don't breed them but have met a lot of people that do for conformation , the second one looks like a better but to me


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## Flstcbob

It's okay! I like to hear from everyone. :-D


Also if anyone was wondering about the first buckling's neck, I forgot to add that the owner says he has a milk goiter that will disappear as he gets older. This because his mother is a fabulous milk producer and since his twin didn't make it, he has his momma all to himself!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

So top buck:
He has a nice top-line, 
Nice legs
thick, but sort of short, neck.
Nice, round rump

He's big for 2 months though! He looks sort of soft and fuzzy with curly hair!
But he is narrow in the front.

Second Buck:
Thick body-he's thick everywhere!
seems to have shorter legs (Not sure if that's a + or - )
He's got a better angle on his rump

I'm no expert, that's just my opinion.
Have to seen what their dam's look like? That's important as the dam contributes a lot (actually more then the sire) to what a animal looks like, unless the sire is in/line bred.


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## Flstcbob

LLNkikos said:


> So top buck:
> He has a nice top-line,
> Nice legs
> thick, but sort of short, neck.
> Nice, round rump
> 
> He's big for 2 months though! He looks sort of soft and fuzzy with curly hair!
> But he is narrow in the front.
> 
> Second Buck:
> Thick body-he's thick everywhere!
> seems to have shorter legs (Not sure if that's a + or - )
> He's got a better angle on his rump
> 
> I'm no expert, that's just my opinion.
> Have to seen what their dam's look like? That's important as the dam contributes a lot (actually more then the sire) to what a animal looks like, unless the sire is in/line bred.


Thank you!! :mrgreen:

The black buckling's dam:








The dappled buck's:








Now I know these aren't good angles, but this is what I could get. I am not impressed by the two does, but they do have length, which is where I lack with my other buck I own.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I think the first doe(black buck's dam) is better.
She has:
a straighter top line
Looks to be more compact
Not bad width between the front legs either

From this angle all I can see wrong right away is that she has a steep rump.

Second doe:
her girth seems to go real narrow compared to the rest of her
Too much up hill from the shoulders
Not as much meat on her

But:
She has a nice long neck
Long body
Good legs
Nice angle on the rump

Overall, I think the black buck's dam is better. Do you like their sire? Right now see how the black buck grows. From his dam's looks, I think he might be the better one...?


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## NyGoatMom

The only thing my inexperienced eye could come up with on buck 2 is his legs appear "posty". But I am not a conformation person. I personally like the second better.


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## OakHollowRanch

oops, double post.


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## OakHollowRanch

I like the red buckling better, but the black buckling's mom has much better conformation than the red one's. Can you get pics of their sire's? :chin:


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## loggyacreslivestock

I also like the red one better. He is thicker all over, but may be a bit short in the body length. The black one has a bit of a slope towards the front.


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## Flstcbob

Thank you everyone! I have a picture of their sire. He's okay in my book. Although, I don't know how big he is compared to other bucks. Here we go:









My family and I have also found some tiger dappled bucks at another farm. I am really starting to like them. :leap:I'm posting pictures of them soon!


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## NyGoatMom

Curious to see those!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Nice buck. Looking forward to seeing the other ones!


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## Flstcbob

Alert, Alert: This post will be filled with pictures! I found four bucks with dapples and I am in love. hlala: I have decided to go with the brown spotted one and he is now competing against these others. Let the games begin.

This is a reference to the first buck on the other pageOB: 5/10/13
#1








Here is a black and tan dapple: Born: 12-29-12
#2
















Now here is #3 (what a cute expression) Born: 11/21/2012








This is #4: *keep in mind the back looks completely wacky, but I promise it is hair sticking straight up*. Born: 11/21/2012









He is on the left.









And here is Mr. Magnificent (#5): *Hair is sticking up on his back, too*. Born: 12/20/2012









This #2 and Mr. Magnificent (#5) together:


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## OakHollowRanch

That's a tough one! Are they all CAE and CL negative and from clean herds? Just thinking that might help weed a few out, but maybe not. Good luck deciding.


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## Flstcbob

OakHollowRanch said:


> That's a tough one! Are they all CAE and CL negative and from clean herds? Just thinking that might help weed a few out, but maybe not. Good luck deciding.


 I emailed the owner after talking to him on the phone (just asking if they're still available) and am waiting to hear back for some more information. His wife seems to be the one to talk to. All the new dapples I posted (except for the brown spotted) were from the same owner so it'll sure narrow it down if they come back positive :worried:.

The price will also narrow it down... #5 (mr. magnificent) and #2 (black and tan) are prettttty high. And #1, #3, and #4 are about the same price range. It all depends on whether it's worth it.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I like #2 and #3. But they're all so nice looking!! Have fun!


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## NyGoatMom

I like 2 and 3.....good luck


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## Flstcbob

Thank you both! I love them all too :lovey:

#2 has me a bit concerned though because of the sheer fact that he is really close in age to #5 and yet he's so much smaller.


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## OleBoers33

If you don't mind me asking. Where are these boys located? I am in South Dakota and I have been looking for a dappled buck for my does.


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## Flstcbob

They are located in Kentucky! It's convenient for me because i'm in Ohio. I will give you their site: http://www.caneruncreekboergoats.com/

The brown and white buck and the buckling are located in Tennessee: http://privettespottedboers.webs.com/


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## OleBoers33

Thank you very much


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## cowgirlboergoats

OleBoers33 said:


> If you don't mind me asking. Where are these boys located? I am in South Dakota and I have been looking for a dappled buck for my does.


There is a place in Missouri that has a dappled buck for sale if you don't want to have a lot long of a drive to KY. Here is the web:
sitehttp://lostcreekboers.com/public_html/index.php/for-sale/18-bucks


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## ptgoats45

I would go with #1. The quality of those goats from the same place is really really poor. Very post legged on all of them and #4 has a horrible topline (I am having a hard time believing that is hair when it is the same in both pics) you can see in the second pic how straight his hind legs are and that is making his rump much higher than his withers. He is also extremely shallow through his heart girth (from top to bottom just behind the elbows) and looks like he has weak pasterns in the rear. I am assuming him and #5 are related as the both have very similar faults. #5 is also very post legged and you can tell that his rump is much higher than the withers (even with out the hair). They are both very weak in the chine (where the back dips) and don't have a lot of depth. #3 is OK, he has the best topline of the bottom 3 but appears post legged behind and cow hocked. #2 is pretty nice but also post legged behind and it looks like he may be a little weak in his pasterns.

Honestly I wouldn't consider #4 and #5 (and possibly #3) as buck material, just because they have color doesn't mean they are good goats and these are a classic example of what happens when you breed for just color and forget about quality. If they were mine they would have all been wethered and on the first truck to the sale barn. I know it sounds harsh, but if you want to have quality goats (even with color) it is much better to find a buck that has the conformation first and then think about color later. Just remember your buck is half your herd and a poor quality buck will make a bunch of poor quality kids.


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## Rasfamily

I am new to goats and just looking at your choices I have to say I like the 1st two as for over all appearance the black buck especially, As for color I like the black and tan but I think the little one will be better in form when he grows to maturity.
Just my 2 cents


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## Flstcbob

ptgoats45 said:


> I would go with #1. The quality of those goats from the same place is really really poor. Very post legged on all of them and #4 has a horrible topline (I am having a hard time believing that is hair when it is the same in both pics) you can see in the second pic how straight his hind legs are and that is making his rump much higher than his withers. He is also extremely shallow through his heart girth (from top to bottom just behind the elbows) and looks like he has weak pasterns in the rear. I am assuming him and #5 are related as the both have very similar faults. #5 is also very post legged and you can tell that his rump is much higher than the withers (even with out the hair). They are both very weak in the chine (where the back dips) and don't have a lot of depth. #3 is OK, he has the best topline of the bottom 3 but appears post legged behind and cow hocked. #2 is pretty nice but also post legged behind and it looks like he may be a little weak in his pasterns.
> 
> Honestly I wouldn't consider #4 and #5 (and possibly #3) as buck material, just because they have color doesn't mean they are good goats and these are a classic example of what happens when you breed for just color and forget about quality. If they were mine they would have all been wethered and on the first truck to the sale barn. I know it sounds harsh, but if you want to have quality goats (even with color) it is much better to find a buck that has the conformation first and then think about color later. Just remember your buck is half your herd and a poor quality buck will make a bunch of poor quality kids.


I agree with #4 having a horrible topline. I actually grabbed his picture and drew lines from his withers to his rump (below any hairline to give him benefit of the doubt) and his withers are lower than his rump. So #4 is definitely out. It actually kind of upsets me that I didn't draw lines sooner.









What I am trying to do is find good conformation. This is why I asked. I am not an expert and I am trying to learn more before buying an overpriced mistake like my doe Stella. I have just started in this and I have no experience so thank you so much for you critique. Yeah, it was harsh, but I wanted harsh. I don't want to buy something not worth the money. I am asking the owner for new pictures of #3 and #5. I will post them here and if they are still not up to par, I will cross them off my list.

I posted pictures of #2 because I wasn't quite sure of his conformation. His back seems a bit straighter, but he was born around the same time as #5 and he is practically half of his size. My own buck at home is nice, but he doesn't have size or length. Those are two aspects I really need.

Now #1 at 8 months old worried me. His topline isn't very straight either.

























I don't know what to doooooooooo. I have exhausted all options. We have traditionals around here, but nothing for sale at this time has a straight back whatsoever. :tear: I am not the one who makes the rules on who we buy either.


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## Flstcbob

Rasfamily said:


> I am new to goats and just looking at your choices I have to say I like the 1st two as for over all appearance the black buck especially, As for color I like the black and tan but I think the little one will be better in form when he grows to maturity.
> Just my 2 cents


Thank you for you 2 cents :thumbup: I am just so confused as for what I should do.


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## Rasfamily

I am actually taking my wife on a trip to a Boer breeder I found rite here in our own back yard to learn a little more at what to look for my self.
She is the boss in the end "so i know how it is not being the final word" but seeing a number of entitled and champion bucks and does will help us see 1st hand what we need to look for.
As a bonus they also breed Nubians so I hope to learn what to look for in them as well.

I wish you luck on your decision and if you can it may be best to see 1st hand vs pictures before you make your final decision :grin:


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## Flstcbob

You're so sweet! I am planning on seeing them first hand, but I don't want my trip to be a total waste since it's about 8 hours away :|. When you come back from the boer breeder, let me know what you think again. I am definitely going to have to do something like that to learn more! Thank you so much, haha I am going to need that luck.


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## Sylvie

Have you looked through this list?
http://www.ohioboergoatassociation.com/breedersdirectory.html


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## Sylvie

http://www.cspringsfarm.com/Bucks.htm


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## Sylvie

http://advancedboergenetics.com/bucks.htm


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## Sylvie

http://www.davidsonlivestock.com/sale_bucks.html


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## Sylvie

This farm is selling their entire herd:
http://www.jadeboergoats.com/index.htm


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## Sylvie

I know, they are all traditionals, but still:
http://stoneypointboers.com/bucks.html


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## Sylvie

Here you go, spotted boers:
http://www.farviewfarmsllc.com/spotted_boers


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## Sylvie

http://www.jackmauldin.com/ohio.html


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## Tenacross

Flstcbob said:


> Thank you for you 2 cents :thumbup: I am just so confused as for what I should do.


Do you have does that need bred right now? If not, doing nothing is also an option. Take your time picking out a buck. I haven't read what these bucks are going for, but I would expect a discount for the time of year. What are these people going to do with all these bucks? Also, young bucks still needing a new home at this time of year probably weren't the pick of the crop back in August, if you know what I mean...


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## Flstcbob

Sylvie said:


> Have you looked through this list?
> http://www.ohioboergoatassociation.com/breedersdirectory.html


I actually have not seen that! Thank you 



Sylvie said:


> This farm is selling their entire herd:
> http://www.jadeboergoats.com/index.htm


I like this buck right here <3











Sylvie said:


> http://advancedboergenetics.com/bucks.htm


This site is quite intimidating. Their sale page makes it look like those will be a fortune... But i really like the first doe for sale.



Sylvie said:


> I know, they are all traditionals, but still:
> http://stoneypointboers.com/bucks.html


I have a thing with toplines and I don't like the prices they're asking...



Sylvie said:


> Here you go, spotted boers:
> http://www.farviewfarmsllc.com/spotted_boers


I actually emailed them! None for sale at this time :/ they'll be kidding soon though, but they hold them for like 5 months.



Sylvie said:


> http://www.jackmauldin.com/ohio.html


I have used their site 



Tenacross said:


> Do you have does that need bred right now? If not, doing nothing is also an option. Take your time picking out a buck. I haven't read what these bucks are going for, but I would expect a discount for the time of year. What are these people going to do with all these bucks? Also, young bucks still needing a new home at this time of year probably weren't the pick of the crop back in August, if you know what I mean...


Well... they're pretty pricey. And they actually put them up for sale not that long ago. I don't think they were available last year because they wanted to keep them and see. They are actually adding #5 to the breeding program if not purchased before breeding season. I may wait. We have a buck right now so it's not mandatory. I am asking the breeder for another picture with his butt possibly shaved or something. And if his back is straight, his only major fault would be rear posty legs?


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## Tenacross

Flstcbob said:


> Well... they're pretty pricey. And they actually put them up for sale not that long ago. I don't think they were available last year because they wanted to keep them and see. They are actually adding #5 to the breeding program if not purchased before breeding season. I may wait. We have a buck right now so it's not mandatory. I am asking the breeder for another picture with his butt possibly shaved or something. And if his back is straight, his only major fault would be rear posty legs?


I'm an impulsive person myself, so I understand wanting to do something when the mood strikes you, but as a disinterested third party, I just wanted to point out some realities. The best buck from these breeders might not have been born yet. They are probably about to have many more. You might consider the doe your future buck is out of as much as the sire. Your future generation of keeper does may be just like her.


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## Flstcbob

Yeah. You're right. I inquired on two more breeders. I'll see what happens.


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