# WETHERS: feeding questions



## Midge0413 (Mar 3, 2013)

So I read that wethers don't need grain and from what I'm reading it sounds like they live off hay, minerals, additives (acv, baking soda, etc) but I'm reading posts about feeding time. 

Shouldn't they have hay all the time? 

So what are they getting at feeding time if they shouldn't be fed grain? 

Hay pellets?

This might be a dumb question but I'm just confused

Thanks for any help


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

Wethers should have grass and/or hay at all times. The key is to maintain a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio in their diet. Most grains are high in phosphorus, and grass hay/forage is high in phosphorus as well. Alfalfa is high in calcium - they should be eating alfalfa in some form, pellets are easy to feed or alfalfa hay is good too, if you can get it, to balance out the phosphorus. They should not be getting baking soda - it messes with their pH and makes them less acidic, meaning they are at a greater risk for urinary stones. Baking soda is for girls only. As a preventative you can put apple cider vinegar in their water (maybe 2 tablespoons). Loose mineral at free choice is a must for them, like all goats. 

Urinary stones are generally caused by too much phosphorus, and they dissolve only in acidic conditions so everything you feed wethers are working against phosphorus and for acidic urine. 

Hope that helps!


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## Midge0413 (Mar 3, 2013)

I ordered a book on feeding wethers. I hope it's as informative as everyone made it out to be and easy enough for a newbie to understand


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## PurpleToad (Feb 14, 2016)

Right now I feed my wethers a mix of commercial rabbit food and straight alfalfa pellets as well as goat mineral and free choice hay. I feed the commercial rabbit feed because we've had supply issues when it comes to the alfalfa but I think the feed store we've started using has started ordering it in because we're always asking for it.lol They like the rabbit food better than the alfalfa and since two of the three are still growing we figure the rabbit food won't hurt them. So that's what we're feeding. Hopefully they won't end up with problems from it.


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## Midge0413 (Mar 3, 2013)

Is rabbit food safe for them ?


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## PurpleToad (Feb 14, 2016)

It hasn't killed them yet or caused any visible distress. We used it at the recommendation of the feed store who said "a lot of local goat people feed it to their goats".









That's the label on the bag. I don't feed a lot of it (32 oz or so over two feedings and three goats, two of which are growing still). I mix it with an equal amount of plain alfalfa pellets now that I can find them regularly. The goal is to maybe, eventually stop feeding the rabbit but I want to keep them on it until I'm certain of my supplier for alfalfa. They also don't have a lot of forage available at the moment but that will change when we get fencing ordered and up. Hopefully soon!!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

My wethers and bucks are fed hay, and some alfalfa pellets to balance the calcium. That's it! In my experience, when I have sold wethers and they were fed grain, two out of four developed stones. I don't like that ratio at all, so I don't touch grain with my boys, even if it's balanced with AC added. They are fed a very simple diet.

If being fed grass or timothy hay, they get more alfalfa pellets. A cup or two a day for wethers, sometimes bucks need more for weight loss during rutt.

If they are being fed alfalfa/hay mix, then I give them just a token amount of alfalfa pellets to make them happy. 

They get the occasional pine tree or fruit/veggie snack; variety is healthy! 

Ammonium chloride is in their minerals. I also give them apple cidar vinegar in their water from time to time, because it's good for them and an added protection.

I deworm herbally, so once a month or every other month I give my wether just a tiny pinch of ammonium chloride (mixed into his herbal dosage ball) to make me happy and ease my mind.

I live in NJ, we are lower in calcium, which is why they need alfalfa pellets.

Hope that was helpful!


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## Midge0413 (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you so much! How do you find out about the calcium levels and such in your area?


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## Spanky (Sep 5, 2016)

My breeder told me for the first year to feed my wethers goat grower pellets with ammonium chloride since their minerals don't supply enough of it. They should have hay at all times to keep everything moving. I have been giving them baking soda free choice but after reading Shire Ridge's post I will have to do some more research!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

PurpleToad said:


> It hasn't killed them yet or caused any visible distress. We used it at the recommendation of the feed store who said "a lot of local goat people feed it to their goats".
> 
> I am sorry but that is a terrible and dangerous approach to feeding your wethers.
> 
> ...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You really don't want to feed rabbit pellets. Way too much other stuff. Alfalfa pellets are only alfalfa. The calcium to phosphorus is bad too.


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## Spanky (Sep 5, 2016)

Dave,
What if the goats can browse free range all day? Mixed soft, hard woods, conifers, brush and grass/weeds. How would you adjust the menu?


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## Snolan65 (Sep 18, 2016)

*Questions on feed for young wethers*

Our pet Nigerian Dwarf wethers are 3, 4 and 5 months old. When we first got them I gave them alfalfa at night in the barn (which they absolutely loved), forage during the day and, each evening, Purina goat feed mixed with minerals, GI Soother, a probiotic and BOSS. I just purchased some AC, but have not added that yet.

The breeder said not to give them alfalfa, so once the first bale was finished, we bought grass hay. They just plain wouldn't eat it so that was just thrown away! Next we bought orchard grass, this is hanging in a net in the barn free choice and I notice a little bit gone each morning, but not that much for three goats, even if they are young. During the day they still forage and I am still working on the same 50 lb bag of grain mixture that I originally bought. I was intending to use that up and then stop. Will this be OK since they are still growing?

However, winter is coming. We live near Salem, OR and I understand it rains a lot here (I'm new here). I'm worried about them not leaving the barn and therefore not getting enough to eat. I can't find an alfalfa/grass mixed bale and the thought of buying one of each and trying to mix it myself is daunting - the barn is small and we keep the bale outside under a tarp. Would the straight alfalfa hay be ok for them during the winter? Or do I have to buy the pellets and try to estimate how much to give them with the orchard grass?

I bought a small feeder to put the minerals out free choice and will add the AC to that as mentioned above.

Sorry for the deluge of questions. Believe me I have been reading a lot but still don't have the right answer for my young wethers and I can't bear the thought of something I did or didn't do causing them pain or worse.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Midge0413 said:


> Thank you so much! How do you find out about the calcium levels and such in your area?


Goathiker gave me this years ago! Love it. http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/countydata.htm


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Snolan65 said:


> Our pet Nigerian Dwarf wethers are 3, 4 and 5 months old. When we first got them I gave them alfalfa at night in the barn (which they absolutely loved), forage during the day and, each evening, Purina goat feed mixed with minerals, GI Soother, a probiotic and BOSS. I just purchased some AC, but have not added that yet.
> 
> The breeder said not to give them alfalfa, so once the first bale was finished, we bought grass hay. They just plain wouldn't eat it so that was just thrown away! Next we bought orchard grass, this is hanging in a net in the barn free choice and I notice a little bit gone each morning, but not that much for three goats, even if they are young. During the day they still forage and I am still working on the same 50 lb bag of grain mixture that I originally bought. I was intending to use that up and then stop. Will this be OK since they are still growing?
> 
> ...


I know how you feel! The basics are: simple diet, balanced with 2:1 calcium/phosphorus.

So if your hay is low in calcium, give them some alfalfa hay or pellets to make up for it. I give my wether his ammonium chloride right in his GI Soother and Dworm A dosage ball once a month.

I'm still learning too, but that's been what's worked for my boys. I will work my one wether up on his alfalfa pellets as he grows. I believe Jill (goathiker) feeds her wethers free choice alfalfa pellets and hay. I don't free-choice the alfalfa pellets, but when he's full grown he'll probably get around 1 or 2 cup(s) a day of alfalfa pellets. He's a Nigerian Dwarf.

If you don't want to feed alfalfa, chaffhay is also a good source.

As for feeding straight alfalfa hay, I think Dave does that. I would say it depends on your area.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Welcome Snolan65, I actually am a near neighbor to you also not far from Salem, Oregon.


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## ThingsGoatSerious (Mar 14, 2016)

We feed hay, pellets and let Kuta graze in the afternoon. He still gets a bottle in the morning (just to get him to his paddock lol) we are trying to increase his hay as the vet said we were feeding him too much pellets (about 3-4 cups a day) as we were told the pellets are much better for him to eat all the time rather than muesli. So confusing everyone tells us something different. Right now he's down to 2 small cups a day


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## Snolan65 (Sep 18, 2016)

*Dosage ball*

The dosage ball sounds like a much better idea than me sprinkling the powders over their grain when they all eat from the same pan! Also, since I plan on drastically decreasing any grain once they get older.

*How would I make a dosage ball and what amounts would I use of: GI Soother, DWorm A and ammonium chloride?*

I have no idea how to find out how much calcium is in the orchard grass I have out for them right now, so I'm just going to assume they need some alfalfa. Since it is supposed to be pretty rainy here during the winter, I think I would be better off using alfalfa pellets than trying to hand mix the grass and alfalfa bales.

Thank you all.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Snolan65 said:


> The dosage ball sounds like a much better idea than me sprinkling the powders over their grain when they all eat from the same pan! Also, since I plan on drastically decreasing any grain once they get older.
> 
> *How would I make a dosage ball and what amounts would I use of: GI Soother, DWorm A and ammonium chloride?*
> 
> ...


I actually deworm all of my goats herbally, so I give them GI Soother and Dworm A twice a week, the dose is on the bag. They are from Fir Meadow. Pregnant goats you have to be careful with the dose (I give them a safe dose 3 times a week) but goats that aren't pregnant you can double dose no problem, so anyone who isn't pregnant in my herd gets a bigger dose.

I add a dollup of molasses to the herbs, and add just enough water so I can form it into a "dosage ball". I start my kids or new goats out with a drench gun. I'll mix the herbs with molasses and water, and force it down. They soon realize they like it, and once they take it no problem, I graduate them to dosage balls.

Only one goat of mine doesn't like her dosage balls, and she is my weird one. :laugh: she still gets drenched. But we love her anyway.

So since Sandy (my wether) already gets his herbs twice a week, once a month I just hide a little dose of ammonium chloride in there. Nice and easy.


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## Snolan65 (Sep 18, 2016)

*Feeding wethers*

Thank you.

Your little Sandy looks a lot like my Zeke


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Here is a generalized cal/phos in some common feeds

Alfalfa hay, (midbloom)_________ 1.24 _______________________ 0.22
Bermuda hay, 29-42 days________0,30 _______________________ 0.19
Oat Hay_____________________0.29 _______________________ 0.23
Orchardgrass hay, early_________ 0.24 _______________________ 0.30
Timothy hay, midbloom_________ 0.43 _______________________ 0.20
Barley grain__________________0.05 _______________________ 0.34
Beet pulp, dehydrated___________ 0.62 _______________________ 0.09
Corn grain___________________0.05 _______________________ 0.27
Oat grain____________________0.05 _______________________ 0.34
Riuce bran___________________0.09 _______________________ 1.5


Most grasses are 2 to 1 or 1 to 1. So they are all very safe. But they have less nutrients. Thus why you have to feed it free choice. Alfalfa is one of the few foods that swing in the other direction. But thats ok. Even beneficial And as mentioned gives you a little more leeway for treats. The math on alfalfa is: Average of 16-18 flakes per bale. If the bale is an average of 100 lbs. There is no reason why a normal small bale of alfalfa shouldnt weight close to 100 lbs. That is the standard. 20 bales per ton. A grower that bales a much lighter bale is usually trying to hide something or charge more for less weight. If you divid 18 flakes by 100 lbs you get 5.55 lbs per flake. A full sized dairy goat that is not on any browse or pasture needs a flake per day IMO and I have feed this way for nearly 20 years. So if you are feeding pellets, roughly 5 lbs a day. Though pellets can be of a lesser quality. So my best suggestion is to watch your goat. If it needs more, give more.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

In case it hasn't been mentioned, your rabbit food does not have a proper calcium/phos balance. It's not even 2:1. It has a minimum of .6 to a maximum of 1.1% calcium and .8% phosphorus. Rabbit pellets should not be used as a calcium supplement. Yes, it contains alfalfa, but not balanced enough with calcium because they have added other feeds (wheat, soybeans, corn, etc, all of which are very high in phosphorus)

When looking for a calcium supplement, read the nutritional values, not the ingredients. Yes, rabbit food has alfalfa, but it was diluted by the grains they added.


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## Miles2go (Apr 21, 2016)

Our wethers are 5 months old and eating a mix of Purina Goat Chow, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS, in the evenings. This is what they were eating (minus the alfalfa pellets) when we got them from the breeder and we plan to continue the grain until they are yearlings. They are doing well in it and look forward to it so much. They don't get a lot but It will be hard to wean them from it I think. Other than that they have free choice local hay, free choice minerals, and they love to browse for an hour or two when my son gets home from school. They have some favorite bushes and they love the soy fields around our house. The occasional treat is graham crackers, animal cracker, or raisins. There aren't many vegetables they will eat...yet!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

My wethers eat grains their whole lives,they need it in the wet climate I live in. 
They get free choice grass hay,plus free choice alfalfa pellets. The good brands in our area are Haystack and Payback. 
I mix my own whole grains sourced from the local area as much as possible. Each wether gets about a pound a day unless they are working.They require more when worked or stressed.


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## Disunite (Oct 8, 2016)

All three of my wethers are one noble goat around a cup, and some boss, free choice timothy/alfalfa they do really well on it


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

Midge0413 said:


> So I read that wethers don't need grain and from what I'm reading it sounds like they live off hay, minerals, additives (acv, baking soda, etc) but I'm reading posts about feeding time.
> 
> Shouldn't they have hay all the time?
> 
> ...


We feed our 2 Pygmy wethers, orchard/Timothy free feed all the time with a mix at bedtime of Timothy pellets and Purina Goat Chow. They get about 1.5 cups ea of that mix. We mix it 1/2 and 1/2 together in a stainless garbage can. 
They also have free choice to a pasture. They do great on that.


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