# Starving my Pygmys!!



## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

Hi there. I recently got 4 Pygmy's. I have a nice space of grass for them and I feed them "snacks" every night. A mixture of lettuce or apple, cabbage, cukes, Black oil sunflower seeds, celery ect. However, I don't think they are getting enough to eat. I would like to add grain to their diet. I bought a bale of alfalfa hay and spread it out but all they do is lay in it! My feed store has "goat food" (cant remember what its called) but I would like to know what the best brand /type of grain is? What should I feed them daily while grass is limited?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The goats should not be able to lay on it, because it should be up in a feeder.

Do a search for goat hay feeder to find a design that you can live with and go for it.

Once you stop providing a hay bed for them, you'll find they are much more full.

Pets shouldn't need grain, really.
Hay, water, loose minerals first, then reassess.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Pinterist ideas
https://www.pinterest.com/explore/goat-feeder/


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> The goats should not be able to lay on it, because it should be up in a feeder.
> 
> Do a search for goat hay feeder to find a design that you can live with and go for it.
> 
> ...


Loose minerals as in??


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Are they looking underweight? Is the any particular reason you feel like they are starving?

Yes they will use extra hay for bedding, and they won't readily eat old hay. I'm not sure for pygmy's but I would be giving at least 2 fresh flakes of hay a day. 

They don't necessarily need grain, I would focus on lose minerals and a salt block first. And give them fresh hay every day. You can judge how much they need by giving 2 or 3 flakes in the morning if its gone in the afternoon give 2 or 3, if it's only about half gone only give 1 or 2 more. If they hardly ate any wait till the next morning. They will start to learn when they get fresh stuff and be ready and waiting for you. Also look at their left sides it should be smaller before feeding and fill out as they fill up, this is a good way to know that they are eating regularly.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> The goats should not be able to lay on it, because it should be up in a feeder.
> 
> Do a search for goat hay feeder to find a design that you can live with and go for it.
> 
> ...


I completely agree.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> Hi there. I recently got 4 Pygmy's. I have a nice space of grass for them and I feed them "snacks" every night. A mixture of lettuce or apple, cabbage, cukes, Black oil sunflower seeds, celery ect. However, I don't think they are getting enough to eat. I would like to add grain to their diet. I bought a bale of alfalfa hay and spread it out but all they do is lay in it! My feed store has "goat food" (cant remember what its called) but I would like to know what the best brand /type of grain is? What should I feed them daily while grass is limited?


Ruminants aren't made to survive off of vegetables, or just grass. So if that's all they are eating the surely need something else. Adding hay should be good enough, they shouldn't need grain. Hay feeder or else they will just sleep in it. Hay can be 90-100% of a goat's diet, that's how important it is.

Loose minerals are important as well, of course.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Minerals are absolutely vital for goats, and should be in a loose, granular, form, offered free choice.

One of the easiest to find is Purina, Wind and Rain, Storm. Do you have a TSC in your area? If so, look for this
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-wind-rain-storm-all-season-75-complete?cm_vc=-10005

We are here for all your questions, and are very welcome.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If you can't find the above Purina Mineral at your TSC, then this one is the second best offering at TSC.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-6-phosphorus-cattle-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

If you tell us what other feed stores you have, we can help further.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Minerals are absolutely vital for goats, and should be in a loose, granular, form, offered free choice.
> 
> One of the easiest to find is Purina, Wind and Rain, Storm. Do you have a TSC in your area? If so, look for this
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-wind-rain-storm-all-season-75-complete?cm_vc=-10005
> ...


Hmmmm&#8230;..cattle minerals? They have it on Amazon. I will order it now. By "offered free choice" you mean just put in a bucket and let them eat however much they want during the day?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> Hmmmm&#8230;..cattle minerals? They have it on Amazon. I will order it now. By "offered free choice" you mean just put in a bucket and let them eat however much they want during the day?


Yes and yes.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> If you can't find the above Purina Mineral at your TSC, then this one is the second best offering at TSC.
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-6-phosphorus-cattle-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005
> 
> If you tell us what other feed stores you have, we can help further.


I have a tractor supply but its far, not that big a deal but they have it on Amazon. I'm probably being naïve....will they eat so much I should buy several bags at Tractor Supply?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, Free choice means you can put it in a bucket under shelter (not in the weather.) But if you are having to order it instead of buy it locally, you might get discouraged and want to stop. I hope you don't stop.

But back to the hay issue... which is what you wrote in about, putting it in a feeder will enable them to eat it, not use it a bedding. This is vital to your desire to give a good diet. Grain CANNOT substitute for hay if you want healthy goats ( and I know you do )


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> I have a tractor supply but its far, not that big a deal but they have it on Amazon. I'm probably being naïve....will they eat so much I should buy several bags at Tractor Supply?


Not naive that's a very reasonable question. You're probably good with one bag for now


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes and yes.


I will order it now! How much would you expect they would eat in a day, just curious...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Noreen said:


> will they eat so much I should buy several bags at Tractor Supply?


They will eat more at first and settle down after a while.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> I will order it now! How much would you expect they would eat in a day, just curious...


Licks here and there throughout the day. You probably won't notice a substantial difference in the appearance of it daily. It isn't like grain, they won't eat it all in one sitting and finish it. But if they are eating more of it it's because they need it - and can have as much as they want, the will eventually slow down. They aren't gonna gobble it and fill their mouths with it, but they may stand there licking for a while.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Yes, Free choice means you can put it in a bucket under shelter (not in the weather.) But if you are having to order it instead of buy it locally, you might get discouraged and want to stop. I hope you don't stop.
> 
> But back to the hay issue... which is what you wrote in about, putting it in a feeder will enable them to eat it, not use it a bedding. This is vital to your desire to give a good diet. Grain CANNOT substitute for hay if you want healthy goats ( and I know you do )


Yes I do! So, get the Purina Wind and Storm and a hay feeder. I hear Alfalfa hay is best?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> Yes I do! So, get the Purina Wind and Storm and a hay feeder. I hear Alfalfa hay is best?


Are they all girls?


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Licks here and there throughout the day. You probably won't notice a substantial difference in the appearance of it daily. It isn't like grain, they won't eat it all in one sitting and finish it. But if they are eating more of it it's because they need it - and can have as much as they want, the will eventually slow down. They aren't gonna gobble it and fill their mouths with it, but they may stand there licking for a while.


Ok, I won't worry if they eat a lot at first.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Are they all girls?


a 4 year old and a 7 month old girl and a 7 month and 2 year boy


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Not naive that's a very reasonable question. You're probably good with one bag for now


Found it at Tractor supply. Will go tomorrow. Advice on hay feeders? I do not have an inside space as of yet to hang/ place it. The goats have a sheltered space but it's small as of now.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Noreen said:


> Yes I do! So, get the Purina Wind and Storm and a hay feeder. I hear Alfalfa hay is best?


I prefer a mixed hay. Alfalfa and grass hay such as orchardgrass.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Yes, Free choice means you can put it in a bucket under shelter (not in the weather.) But if you are having to order it instead of buy it locally, you might get discouraged and want to stop. I hope you don't stop.
> 
> But back to the hay issue... which is what you wrote in about, putting it in a feeder will enable them to eat it, not use it a bedding. This is vital to your desire to give a good diet. Grain CANNOT substitute for hay if you want healthy goats ( and I know you do )


I do not have an indoor space to hang or place food or water yet. The goats have a shelter space but its small. Plans in the fall for a better space with indoor feeding but for now what is your advise for the Purina and hay? Maybe put it in my garage when it's supposed to rain? Is it the water and or sun I'm trying to keep it from? Btw.... I will be purchasing from Tractor supply,not ordering after all.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I prefer a mixed hay. Alfalfa and grass hay such as orchardgrass.


suggestions on a hay feeder knowing I have no indoor space at the moment?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> suggestions on a hay feeder knowing I have no indoor space at the moment?


If you have no indoor space, what shelter do your goats have?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Noreen said:


> Advice on hay feeders?


Did any of the Pinterest ideas I linked to interest you?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I prefer a mixed hay. Alfalfa and grass hay such as orchardgrass.


I also would suggest a mix especially for boys.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I also would suggest a mix especially for boys.


Remember, you apparently have a much greater ability to pick and choose your hay than most of us do. IMO, a mix is fine when you are talking about roughage. Fine tuning can happen with the supplements, rather than the main belly filler...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Noreen said:


> suggestions on a hay feeder knowing I have no indoor space at the moment?


I do have an idea. let me find it and get back to you with a pic...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

2 hay feeders that can be outside in the weather,
















And mineral feeders that can be out in the weather, size can be adjusted quite easily according to the size bucket or whatever


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Did any of the Pinterest ideas I linked to interest you?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How much space/how many acres do they have to graze?


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

Yes!! I get it now. Just come up with something they can't lay in or tip over and is somewhat weather proof.....SOOO MUCH TO LEARN! Thank you! 
T


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> How much space/how many acres do they have to graze?


1/4 acre for 4 Pygmys. I'm extending it to 1/2 in the fall.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

One last thing that you did not ask about, Pygmies are year round breeders. So if your boys are not wethers, but still bucks, then they should not be housed with your does. So multiply what you've learned by 2, for 2 different living spaces.

If they are wethers, then they can all be together, but they have special needs regarding feed and minerals. It isn't complicated and We are glad to help
You are welcome for the thanks, and you are welcome here at TGS. This is the BEST place to be to learn about your chosen animals.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Hay. Leaves and twigs if you can find them, we had a list of good kinds here some weeks ago. This is natural food for goats. Too much treats can make them too fat.

Did we say Welcome? Welcome to our site for goat lovers!


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If you have no indoor space, what shelter do your goats have?


They have a little water proof 6 x 8 shed with a sliding door I built. Just no indoor space for food or water yet.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I want to suggest a hay for consideration if it is a type of hay available in your area. Coastal Bermuda has on average* 91% dry matter: 9.2% protein: 0.43% calcium: 0.16% phosphorus and has a 2.7-1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. With the phosphorus from grazing, this is a good balance for males. The C-P ratio of feed is not entered into this calculation, so feed would have to be considered also. With the females adding extra calcium rich food sources would bump up the calcium and protein levels also when needed.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

mariarose said:


> One last thing that you did not ask about, Pygmies are year round breeders. So if your boys are not wethers, but still bucks, then they should not be housed with your does. So multiply what you've learned by 2, for 2 different living spaces.
> 
> If they are wethers, then they can all be together, but they have special needs regarding feed and minerals. It isn't complicated and We are glad to help
> You are welcome for the thanks, and you are welcome here at TGS. This is the BEST place to be to learn about your chosen animals.


Some of the smaller breed goats can get pregnant and/or reach sexual reproductive age at a ridiculously young age. Not familiar with Pygmy goats though.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Pymies are the ultimate example of that phenomenon, @NigerianNewbie


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Goat math nightmare if not kept in check. Thanks @mariarose, I knew ND were in that category, now I know for sure Pygmy are also.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Noreen said:


> They have a little water proof 6 x 8 shed with a sliding door I built. Just no indoor space for food or water yet.


I had a 4x6 shed and in a snowstorm I managed to fit water, minerals, and hay. Water was an 8 quart bucket in the corner. Beside that a small rubber bowl of minerals. Then a milk crate stuffed with hay (temporarily it worked). So I don't see why you can't fit a few buckets and bowls in there.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Noreen said:


> Hmmmm&#8230;..cattle minerals? They have it on Amazon. I will order it now. By "offered free choice" you mean just put in a bucket and let them eat however much they want during the day?


Just like the hay get it up off the ground or they will stand and poop in it.


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## bisonviewfarm (Apr 2, 2015)

Its pretty easy to rig up a weather proof outside hay feeder I did this one in an hour or two from scraps it was nice and heavy so the goats couldn't tip it. For small mineral feeder wide mouth rabbit jfeeders work well and take up basically no space I hang them in my kidding stalls and have a larger version for the main barn.


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## O'Boy Goats (Nov 1, 2015)

We have used Manna Pro goat minerals from Tractor supply, but we also keep a mineral block out at all times. In severe weather especially (extreme cold or extreme heat) I use the Manna Pro loose minerals more. Goats don't really graze so much, they browse. Taste everything and then eat more of whatever they like. Mine eat tree leaves off the trees, fallen tree leaves, brush like honeysuckle, poison ivy, other viney leafy stuff and sometimes they will graze some on grass if there's nothing else. Always keep hay on hand, but in a feeder. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just off the ground. Mine just eat a good mixed grass hay. When my 4 Dwarf goats were younger, they ate probably 1 full square bale of hay over about 10 days. Now about a bale a week for 5 adult goats. In very cold weather, they will need more hay. One more item, I have one goat who has always seemed like the runt. I give him Goat Nutri-drench when we seems to stay too thin. Happens every year in the extremes (heat or cold). I use it sparingly, just give him a nip or two a couple times a week and it helps him a great deal. Be careful about feeding grain to male goats, especially wethers. They really don't need grain and it can cause some terrible issues with their ureter, to the point of causing death by urinary blockage.


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## Motherof5 (Apr 17, 2019)

Noreen said:


> I will order it now! How much would you expect they would eat in a day, just curious...


We give our goats loose minerals and grain. About 1 drinking cup of grain. They also forage on plants out in the yard. In winter we give them hay to replace the fact that there isn't enough for them to graze on.
As far as the grain we use purina for meat goats. We stay away from sweet feed.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

On the topic of feeders inside.

I personally do not feed hay inside unless the weather is horrible, windy snowy bitter cold. I have covered hay feeders so I can put their hay outside, it helps keep the inside area dry and cleaner. It also makes them get up and get some exercise.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Clean and nice, but I would suggest you to block the V-shaped openings, to prevent a head getting stuck there.

If you feel like it, you may also enlarge the cover, so that at least half a goat can get protected against rain.

Edit: Things have gone nuts on the forum, so I might tell you that this entry is meant to comment Robinsonfarm's feeder!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Motherof5 said:


> We give our goats loose minerals and grain. About 1 drinking cup of grain. They also forage on plants out in the yard. In winter we give them hay to replace the fact that there isn't enough for them to graze on.
> As far as the grain we use purina for meat goats. We stay away from sweet feed.


You give your loose minerals with your grain? Together?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Another thread where posts get out of order!


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## Treva Brodt (Jan 11, 2019)

I’m from the country and my hubs is cattle savvy but we had some learning to do when we acquired miniature goats. They eat like deer. They browse instead of grazing. Eating off the ground is a last resort. They will eat the same hay from a bag or rack that they poop on if you put it on the ground. It’s well worth your time to fix something low enough that it’s easy for you to throw some hay in and high enough that your goats have to reach up for. I wouldn’t fix up anything that’s a flat surface because they will also climb up there to sleep. Goats love an elevated bed but that’s another issue.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Treva Brodt said:


> I'm from the country and my hubs is cattle savvy but we had some learning to do when we acquired miniature goats. They eat like deer. They browse instead of grazing. Eating off the ground is a last resort. They will eat the same hay from a bag or rack that they poop on if you put it on the ground. It's well worth your time to fix something low enough that it's easy for you to throw some hay in and high enough that your goats have to reach up for. I wouldn't fix up anything that's a flat surface because they will also climb up there to sleep. Goats love an elevated bed but that's another issue.


You got it! The leader bends down branches for the flock to feast on, and therefore especially the billies stand upon hay on the ground. Took me decades to understand! And it is natural for them to feed up high. They are sensitive to worms that climb on grass, so it is wise from them if they prefer a high feeder, or bush, rather than grazing on the ground.

They also feed on inner bark, so look out for killed trees ...


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