# Dairy and Meat goats showing together



## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

Yesterday I attended a show...State Fair...to watch the 4-H/FFA goat Showmanship competition since some of the goats we had bred were going to be shown. This is the first year for showing Boers at this particular Fair so entries weren't particularly high. I don't show my goats and so am not too experienced with the whole showing side but was surprised when the showmanship competition began to see Boers and Dairy competing together. In all the different kid levels not one Boer was a winner or even close...dairy topped the show. Don't get me wrong, the kids showing dairy goats were good...but so were most of the kids. I just wondered from those of you more familiar with 4H shows, how common it is to see Dairy and Boers competing together in the same ring for showmanship?


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

In the 4H shows I've been in, showmanship has always had boers, angoras, pygmies, you name it, in addition to dairy breeds. At the 4h state fair, in my age class a boer took second(the boy was admittedly a very good showman) and an Alpine was first.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

When I was in 4-H we only had one girl who had boers.. She showed right along with the rest of us dairy kids in showmanship and she placed well. I don't remember her placing, but she was towards the front of the class.
Showmanship isn't judged on the goat, but on the person showing, so breed or type shouldn't matter


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Showmanship should be about the kid and how he/she handles their goat. So it shouldn't matter what breed is brought in. At least that is how showmanship works around here.


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Showmanship should be about the kid and how he/she handles their goat. So it shouldn't matter what breed is brought in. At least that is how showmanship works around here.


I agree with you 100% but in this case it was obvious that there was a preference by the judge towards dairy goats. And as I said...I didn't have any kids showing...just a spectator. I do know that some of these kids have previously placed very well in a Boers only class in the different County shows. Anyway...not to matter...just wondered how other places did the Showmanship.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

All breeds are mixed here as well, I think that is how it is in all 4-H showmanship classes if there are kids with both dairy and boer goats at the show/fair. I don't mean to start an argument, but there is a high chance the judge didn't have a preference towards Dairy goats, but the showman with dairy goats were just showing better to that judge. It seems most judges for 4-H shows (at least here) are actually market animal judges, so I would doubt the judge had a preference towards the dairy breeds


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Showmanship is about the handler, not the goat or the breed/type, so you will see all different types of goats in the ring together for a showmanship class. I doubt the placings had anything to do with the goats. Most likely just a coincidence that the kids with dairy goats were in front of the class. That would be stupid of a judge in a showmanship class to worry about the type of goat the kids are handling. They should be focused on the handlers.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Well I've never seen mixed classes, but I don't do 4-H, it's an ADGA show, no meat goats even at the show that day but I agree, it isn't about the breed of goat.


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

In Oregon at the state fair level, dairy and meat are shown separately. However, in many counties they are all thrown together. We raised quite an objection and were successful because we suggested that they show the dairy and beef cattle together. We caused a bit of a stir, but they finally saw our point. 

In this case, it is judging and I am hopeful that the best showmen and women were at the head of the line.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> Showmanship should be about the kid and how he/she handles their goat. So it shouldn't matter what breed is brought in. At least that is how showmanship works around here.


Agreed. The problem lies with the judge. Most goat judges in areas where Boer goats ate just getting established are dairy goat judges. They may not like or understand the correct way to show a meat goat. Therefore, their evaluation may be bias to the dairy showman.


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## brbn (Nov 30, 2011)

OK I might be the odd man out here but I feel Boer goat showmanship and dairy goat showmanship are very different. I have shown both. And we recently got seperate showmanship classes approved in our county fair in Ohio. Boer goat showmanship does not do side by side comparisons they do not have a recognized score card they are set up entirely differently and Boer weathers are braced and many dairy judges do not like bracing. Also dairy showmanship is very smoth and graceful and boer showmanship is more quick and precise. If you have a judge that specializes in dairy and didn't have the experience of judging Boer, then they would fault the Boer kids for not showing gracefully not haveinga knowledge of a score card and not knowing how to do side by side comparisions. The same could be said for a Boer judge who didn't know dairy showmanship that well.
I think Boer goat showmanship is more like sheep showmanship than dairy goat showmanship. Just my thoughts on the subject.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree brbn. Very different styles. My biggest issue is that the dairy purple that judge meat goat shows always turn showmanship into a quiz bowl. Sometimes I wonder why the kids even brought their goats into the ring!


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Showmanship is about how well you show your goat. Someone showing a boer should know that the style in which they are shown is different from dairy, and someone showing dairy likewise. The judge should know this as well and place them accordingly. I've talked with some judges and scorecards are used to sort out and place the top competitors. One said to me that if I'm a senior showman and I show dairy then I better know not only my own scorecard, but the ones for pygmies too. Showmanship is on the showman. My two cents.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

I fully agree with brbn. My county mixes the showmanship classes. I don't show because my Boer doe is a pet and was not bred by 2 years of age, but I can't even stand to go watch the show. I feel my blood start to boil over whenever I see this in a showmanship ring. Now, I do like to go watch the Vigo county fair (Terre Haute) because the judge they usually get is qualified by ADGA and ABGA to judge and they don't mix the showmanship classes. I used to go every year to watch the owner of BAB Boer goats show. She's an excellent showman and breeds top quality boers! There's not one of her animals that I don't drool over. Sorry for the ramble, but that's where I stand on the issue.


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## SMB_GoatHerd (Jan 22, 2014)

I agree with the side that Boer and Dairy showing are very different in their showing methods. I show Boers primarily, for market, and soon for breeding, but I have shown dairy goats before. At my county fair, we have a mixed showmanship. Dairy and meat. But they also mix in the fitting into the placing of showmanship. Not only do you show dairy and market differently, but you fit them much differently! Now, I have never been a perfect showman. But every class I have been in, dairy goats have reigned the top 3 spots, (other than this year, because there was one dairy goat in the class.) and I have been showing for 8 years. I completely understand that showmanship is on the person, but fitting should be judged differently. A 3 year old dairy doe stands much better on a stand and can stand being clipped than my 7 month old boer who has never come in contact with clippers before. I think that they should be separated, for the general sake of the showmen. Just like you wouldn't combine showmanship for the dairy cattle versus the beef cattle, because it's two different worlds. and with the score card, I had a judge one year ask about score cards in all of the showmanship classes. One person knew the question. They won the class based on that one question. These kids mainly raise for market, and how are they supposed to know what the score card was. i agree with it being about the person, but even more can I agree with those who think these showmanship class should be split. Especially at larger shows/fairs.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

We have that same issue at our county fair (never been to the State fair to watch showmanship so don't know). We have primarily boer and we purposely asked how the judge wanted us to show our dairy and were told...."just like a meat goat". I think the judges should know that meat and dairy show differently and should judge accordingly but....you're not going to see that happen. It happens across all species. Horses especially....if you don't have a QH or Paint, your horse isn't going to place. I was shocked when we actually had a judge my TB in 4th BUT that judge asked what breed and age so..... If my daughter tries to show our Arab like you are suppose to show an Arab....LOL


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