# Sticky  How to find Ligaments



## StaceyRosado

here is a video of me checking ligaments

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g231/ ... place2.flv

here are pictures


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## StaceyRosado

if anyone else has some good pictures of checking ligaments or videos post them here


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## logansmommy7

Very helpful. So when those ligaments are not palpable or you can't feel them, then that means they are close to kidding? Thanks for helping the newbies!


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## Idahodreamer

When your fingers can 'meet' all the way around the tail head it means she's pretty much ready to kid. The ligs start to get 'mushy' 24-36 or so hours before kidding *in my experience* however when you can make your fingers meet, it's usually only a few hours til kidding time.


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## toth boer goats

very educational... it helps.... :wink: :greengrin: :thumbup:


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## Saanens N Alpines

My doe has been the last two days for sure with ligaments gone, and my fingers meet under the tail head. I think it has been the same for at least over a week though! I keep reading it means they will kid in the next day or so. I didn't know about the posty leg thing until yesterday and she definitely had that yesterday morning, also, and still does. She has had a small white string of discharge off and on for about 2 weeks. Last night she had a *tiny* bit of brown tinged stuff come out. I didn't sleep and kept going to the freezing cold barn to check. I thought by today she would have had them but still nothing! She is huge and waddling, and looks like she has triplets in there!


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## tomie

thank you for posting this Stacey. The first doe that I had that kidded it was easy to feel her ligaments but this doe that I am waiting on now is really difficult. Is that normal? I do not know if it is because of their bodies being shapped so differently but it has been impossible for me to find them. I can rap my fingers around her tail head so I just assume that they are gone.... Can I be wrong?


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## StaceyRosado

yes you could be wrong because you dont wrap AROUND the tail head but you feel along SIDE the tail head. You feel down along side and the ligs give away like rubberbands


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## KW Farms

Good thread Stacey!

Fiasco Farm has a great example too...
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/prenatalcare.html

I remember when I first was trying to figure out the ligaments thing, the above link really helped me. :thumb: It's so easy when you finally get a hang of it.


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## Jessaba

That fiasco farm link helped me too on saturday...I have a girl with ligs gone, but she hasn't delivered yet...will be keeping close eye on her though.


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## myhorsehawkeye

First Fresheners sometimes dont loose there ligs all the way. The ligaments run like a V down the tail so, you need to feel about a 1/2"-1" on either side of the tail. The feeling around the tail head doesnt work. FF are very good at loosing there ligs for a few hours and then they are bak.
The udder is the Best way to tell when they kid. All of My does are very easy to tell when they are in labor!!! THANK GOD!!


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## Tayet

Here's my piccy. Took it last year and got complements on how well it showed the proper area.


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## toth boer goats

:thumbup:


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## SugarBush Farms

I had one doe with ligaments completely gone for almost a month before she kidded. We could wrap our fingers all the way around her tail.


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## thorsonfarms

Ok I've been having issues with this too bc I can already grab the tail all the way around but she's still a week or more out from kidding the others are way to hard to do this to but all were bred within 6 days of each other I cannot find this pencil rubberband thing of ligaments everyone is talking about... Does anyone have a skeletal/ nerve diagram? That might really help me out bc I am still lost in the ligament dept and udders don't help me either bc my doe last year was full hard and nearly touching the ground for almost a month before she kidded! This year she's not nearly as full but I now she is close to having them by the bred date. Any more help on logs would be great!!


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## Selah123

Hi all. Stacey - this is a great post  I checked for ligs last year and it let me know when to really watch my doe. This year, I have my 5 year old doe due to kid again (not sure exactly when but soon) and her daughter (woops). Daughter is just over 10 months old (woops again) and I am not sure when she is due (triple woops! I witnessed the train wreck of the buck getting at her in Feb but he must have got to her before then as well because she looks very far along...)

So the thing is - like Carol said - her ligs seem to come and go, or are very difficult to find some days, then back, one lig disappeared - the other I can feel....Tonight I can feel both but not very easily....BUT I can put my fingers around her tailbone and basically touch my fingers together...and she has made a small udder.....Is the tail bone thing more reliable with FF? and if so, should I be checking on her more because it could be soon OR should her ligs disappear like my older doe???


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## Rubystargoats

Here's some pics I did for finding ligaments and figuring out when a doe is kidding.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.441696899291347.1073741829.221500494644323&type=1


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I don't trust ligaments on does like that. If their ligs come and go, I'll never trust them as a sign that they're ready to kid, but as a sign that they'll kid in 2-3 weeks.

I know they're ready to kid when they start being restless, peeing a lot, vocalizing, tummy talking, or they have a kid hanging out the back of them when I step outside!


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thank you Stacy for this video!!! This was very helpful to our family, we are newbies to goat rearing! Wish there were more videos on how to care for goats!


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## fibromom

:leap:HOW EXCITING for _Saanens N Alpines_! Obviously, she has delivered by now. Pics are where?


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## Trickyroo

Thanks Stacy !


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## melbah1

A picture or chart of the ligaments will probably help, but the only one I have in our 4-H book isn't any better than the picture posted. 

The ligaments have been the best way to tell for our small herd. I've had 12 kiddings so far. The udder says its getting close but I've had them udder up 2 weeks before. Sometimes their ligaments will go soft, especially in the morning but then come back in the afternoon. Maybe laying down stretches them out some, I don't know. One doe this year had that for a few days but when I went out at night on day 151 her ligaments we gone. Like they disappeared. She kidded at 1 the next afternoon. For us there's a big difference between soft ligaments and ligaments that are gone. If you think about the purpose of those ligaments "disappearing" it makes sense that they have to so the tail bone can lift up to make room for the kid to come out. When my does are in early labor they don't want me to touch them there any more. I think it hurts at that point.

Our does can also look like the are having contractions sometimes. Such as rolling on their side some and posting their leg. I think its the kids moving or something else that causes pain. I explain it to my kids as the difference between bumping your elbow and hitting your funny bone. A contraction is more like hitting your funny bone so a contraction is more likely to last for a second or too and the doe will look like it's straining. It's sometimes to tell the difference between an uncomfortable doe and a doe in labor but thats part of what I look for. 
I also use a stopwatch to see if there's anything somewhat regular.

Having said all that, I have one doe that plays tricks on me and I won't believe her until I literally see her straining at contractions.

The best way to tell requires an investment of time., i think. If I think a doe is looking close from all the physical signs I go out and watch them a couple times a day. I know that is unrealistic for many, but especially for the beginners (which I really am, still) the more you spend time with them the more you will learn what's normal and what's not.


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## HoodKhizer

Today I tried to feel for the ligaments, are these the two HARD (almost like bones) things on the either side of the LAST part of spine ? This is what it felt like, going down the spine smoothly, suddenly two hard almost bone like things and then tail, like I could feel that the tail has started and JUST before that I could feel two hard muscles or bones, at the point where tail is supposedly connected to the body.


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## Clarebear12345

PLEASE HELP ME 
I'm very new to goats and I felt my goats ligaments about six days ago and I couldn't feel them anymore she is bagging up but I don't know when she is going to kid.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

If she's bagged up and her ligs are gone, definitely less than 48hrs left, more like 12-24hrs. Good luck! 

Here is a pic of sunken ligaments.


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## Clarebear12345

Thank you Little-Bits-N-Pieces


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## top_goat

Very helpful thread -- thanks!


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## top_goat

After milking this a.m. I tried to locate ligaments on one of my does who tends to run a bit gaunt (and who just confirmed pregnant). *Found 'em**! *I never could clearly locate them the last time she was pregnant. Hopefully now that I've felt them once I'll be able to identify them again! Thanks for the help, TGS-ers!


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## Clarebear12345

Glad we could all help top_goat


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## Bsaylor

StaceyRosado said:


> here is a video of me checking ligaments
> 
> http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g231/ ... place2.flv
> 
> here are pictures


I can't find anywhere to show me how to upload a video. How did you do that? Thanks


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Bsaylor said:


> I can't find anywhere to show me how to upload a video. How did you do that? Thanks


It's easiest if you just upload it to YouTube and post a link.


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## CATERINA PLATT

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> If she's bagged up and her ligs are gone, definitely less than 48hrs left, more like 12-24hrs. Good luck!
> 
> Here is a pic of sunken ligaments.


Now that is a descriptive pic. The first two in this thread, I really didn't know what I was looking for.


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## toth boer goats

:great:


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## Jubillee

Some tips for finding them. Start finding them early, once you do, you recognize it easily from then on. They feel like 2 pencils. Feeling every so often early in PGcy will help you realize when they soften. They can and will soften as PGcy goes on...no need for getting extra excited until you're in the last week. 

There are certain things you are looking for in the loss of ligaments that signals the start of labor. First, sometimes you may think they are gone, but they can drop very low against the thurls. They tend to do that a week or two before kidding. What you want to see is the raising of the tailhead, their whole rump seems to rise higher than their front end and the tailhead is curved. You will start to see indents where the ligaments are/should be. In addition, you will no longer feel the ligs, even low down and the hollowed area with have a distinct mushiness. You can also flop their tail around easily while digging in there. Sometimes their tail looks broken or hanging to the side. The most distinct thing that tells me they are gone is that specific mushiness, hollowed tailhead area, raised tailhead, and not finding the ligs. The combination of those is what telle me kids come in the next 12 hours.


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## Tiffany Hindman

When I try to click on the photobucket link to watch the video it says there is an error on the page.


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