# Fence Rubbing = Labor Complications?



## Shayna Meyer (Nov 18, 2017)

Hello!
So I am brand new to kidding and have been more than blessed to have my first two does have easy, uncomplicated labors in which I missed entirely (and I've been obsessively watching these girls!). But my 3rd girl to kid, was not a happy ending.  She had been constantly rubbing the panels of her kidding stall/pen for weeks. But otherwise ate, drank, acted completely normal. I checked her ligs/udder/backside constantly until she finally went into labor Monday night/Tuesday morning. Labor never progressed, and to be honest she never really had any contractions, just a hanging long/thick rope of goo (which I knew was baby goo). So incredibly long story short, two vets couldn't get the bucklings' snout even into her pelvis because her pelvis didn't/wouldn't open up. They did a c-section, and at that point baby was dead and momma died on the table before they finished stitching her up. It was awful. I mean absolutely terrible. :'( 

So the reason I post today is I have another doe that could kid at any time. She was not supposed to be bred but is. All I know for sure is she's due by April 18th at the latest, but she's had a large bag for a couple weeks now, just today appears slightly more puffy/pink and her ligs are barely there and she's become super lovey the last couple days. BUT just a little bit ago i noticed she was pawing and getting up/down and was rubbing the fence here and there. But then she stopped and went off with the herd to graze...

So my question is, is there a "normal" amount of fence rubbing prior to labor? Or is it a guarantee that there is a problem? She's otherwise completely normal; eating, drinking, being her ornery self. I plan to "go in" and do some investigating when my husband get home tonight... any help is so greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well there’s really not a for sure answer there. Yes they will rub on things, like the fence to try and get kids into position but they are also total itchy animals and just like to rub. Usually if they are up and down, rubbing, sometimes being vocal and it seems to go on for awhile then it’s probably pretty safe to say there’s something going on that might need to be checked out. 
When in doubt though check the doe. Start with one or two fingers. This will be uncomfortable for the doe but as long as you are gentle shouldn’t hurt her. I mean to be kinda blunt here put your two fingers together and then look at a bucks penis, it’s not much larger then he is. If you don’t hit a wall or don’t hit a small ring then you can try for more then a finger or two. Not dilating is really not that common of a thing so I know your probably freaking out over your last doe (so very sorry for your loss) you may never have that happen again or you may go many many kiddings till you hit that again. 
Basically keep your eye on her and go with your gut. If it says something off either call a vet or come on here and voice your concerns and someone will help you out. 
With your doe right now I would say very early labor or Braxton Hicks. I don’t care what anyone says they either get them or Goats just think it’s funny to drive us nuts.....maybe both lol but keep a eye on her


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## Shayna Meyer (Nov 18, 2017)

So a little bit ago my husband swung by home from work and we got her in one of our kidding pens, and I slipped two gloved fingers in and she is completely wide open up until my knuckle. I didn't go any farther (don't want to hurt anything) but I could have gone farther if I wanted to. Does this mean her cervix is open? Or could it be that much farther back yet? 

And thanks for your reply, ya after what happened Tuesday I am all but terrified that that is what will happen every time.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If you got your fingers in up to the knuckle and felt nothing, then try reaching your hand in. If she's open there should be room for your whole hand until you feel kids. If she's not open then you'll feel a wall or a small ring as Jessica said. If her labor started but has stalled, your hand will stimulate contractions.


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## Shayna Meyer (Nov 18, 2017)

I feel stupid asking this, but if I feel kids what do I do? Give her time to progress on her own? Keep stimulating contractions/rearrange kids if need be? Just call the vet right away? As of now she has zero discharge, one lig is pry 90% gone and the other is maybe only 75% gone, she’s got a good sized udder and just today started getting puffy. So it is very possible she still has a couple days - I just want to prepare for the worst so I can give her and her babies the best chance


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If you reach in and actually feel kids (like a little muzzle or a tail or some toes), you'll know it. Kids are bony and the rest of the doe (except for her pelvic bones on either side) is squishy. If she's all the way open and you feel a kid, you'll need to be prepared to assist. If you're not at all comfortable with that, you can call a vet. We won't blame you at all. But ideally you should have both front feet coming out first with the head on top like a Superman or diving position. Anything else is going to need repositioning.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

How is everything going?


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## Shayna Meyer (Nov 18, 2017)

Ugh sorry not only are we kidding (or trying to) but I have a small army of children that keep me distracted as well. ‍

She was totally normal (for her) today. Ate, drank, etc. I believe she lost her mucus plug last night - thick, white, Elmer’s glue-like discharge. And then tonight her bag seems just a bit bigger, she’s a bit more puffy and her ligaments are BARELY hanging on. I mean I all but have to “dig” to find them. I “went in” tonight just for peace of mind and she was a stretchy one finger dilated, but I also felt nothing (no boney parts or squishy balloon/bag). I only went to my knuckles- I’m always reluctant to go in any animal for fear of introducing germs/infection/etc (I grew up on a cow/calf operation). So I guess as of right now, I’m taking that as a good sign... but thank you for checking in on us. I hope to be posting cute baby pictures before too long.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No going in isn’t ideal but better then a huge issue on your hands. Awesome you have experience! They are not really any different then cows so you got this!


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## Shayna Meyer (Nov 18, 2017)

Thanks! They seem, idk, more finicky than cattle though. lol I'm kind of concerned my girls may have some mineral deficiencies but I'm not sure how to remedy it. I feed loose mineral with their grain (as per the directions - manna pro goat mineral), and they have free access to salt, sulfur and a goat mineral blocks. I've been doing some reading - should I keep copper bolus's, calcium, and some Bo-Se tubes on hands?

Also, from your experience, how much longer do you think it should be now that I know she is starting to dilate? I mean, from my own (human) experience, I start dilating like MONTHS prior to labor....so just checking how that works for goats lol


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