# 1/28 CD/T usages why or why not



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Ok lets get a discussion going on about CD/T. 

Just state what you do, why or why not and how effective your management has been. 

Lets get talking


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

I do vaccinate for CD-T....I have only had goats for 2 years but I haven't had any problems with it since I have been vaccinating. I vaccinate at a month old and then again at 2 months. All adults coming onto my property are vaccinated for it also. I check with the previous owners to see when the last vaccine was given or if they give that vaccine.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I do use CD/T..
The reason we use it, they are out in the pasture and you never know when thy might get into something that is a little"rich". 
The reason I believe it should be done. If they were to lets say for some reason just (Eat like we do at lets say Thanksgiving), then if they have NOT had the shot, they they could get really sick from it and it could kill them before you realize something is wrong. If you do the shot it will at least help to balance things out in their rumen ,and you will have a better chance of saving them.
As for the babies.
Lets say that a baby get locked away for the mom for a while and has not eaten in a long time, when the baby gets to mom, they will eat and eat. They really do not know when to stop, so they will feel like we do at Thanksgiving. The problem is they do not know what to do for the pain and all, and they could die for "over eaters". That is what it is for. Over eaters.

I think they need to come out with a shot for us for over eaters. :greengrin: 

Plus that tetanus. Goats get into everything as we all know


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

We do not vaccinate at all. I can see the use of one vaccination when they are babies, but personally I do not feel or see the need to vaccinate on a regular schedule of a couple times a year. It seems unnecessary and a goat should have developed immunity to the disease after 1 or 2 shots. That is just my 2 cents. When my buck and wether got dehorned I had the vet give them the tetanus antitoxin just in case.

Even though we do not give vaccinations, it does not mean that we don't do anything at all. We give nosodes, which is the homeopathic version of a vaccination. We give nosodes for entero, tetanus, orf(soremouth) and E Coli. To safeguard against entero, we always keep baking soda out free choice, and if we have a goat that goes off feed or acts off, they get a shot of Fortified B Complex along with a dose of thiamin. We also give Milk of Magnesia and olive oil to encourage rumen function during the sick time.

As tetanus prevention, besides giving the nosode, anytime a goat gets cut or scratched, we immediatly clean the wound out with peroxide and put calendula and/or hypericum tincture on the wound. We also give the remedies Ledum(for open wounds and bites), Hypericum(for repair of damaged tissue and prevention of infection) and Arnica for pain. 

We have never had a goat come down with tetanus or entero by doing these things.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Sara, where do you get your nosodes? Could you PM me about them....


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Sara.
I do agree with you. We have been doing the CDT just because when we started into goat, that is what they told us we had to do. I would LOVE to stop doing them, but I am just to scared. I figured as soon as I do something will happen.

It is a total personal choice.

(Just a worry thing)


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## PACE (Oct 8, 2007)

Mine get the shots once a year at their vet appointment. They have always been perfectly healthy, have never seen any side effects from the shot (even though I've only had goats for 2 years).


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## Bona Fide (Oct 9, 2007)

I'd like to know where you find your nosodes too, if you don't mind my asking.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the facts about tetanous are that it can not live where there is oxygen present. So if the wound bleeds or is large enough to allow oxygen in then the chances of tetanous setting in are more like 100-1 
Now if a goat gets a puncture wound this kind of wound closes up as the object is removed. If an owner doesn't see the puncture tetanous can set in if the bacteria is present to do so.

This is coming from a Doctor. So I would assume it falls the same across the board.


Now i heard this but not sure if it is true or why:

"If you have horses there is a great chance for tetanous."

Anybody know why this would be the case?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

as to the CD/T usage - yes I do use it.

But only because I sell the kids and it is easier to say "yes they are all up on their shots" now if the buyer does not want the kid to have it I will not give the CD/T Most buyers want it and I provide it free of charge because I want the best for my kids. 

As to the yearly booster Sarah - it does seem overredundant but I do know that in humans we need boosters on like the tetanous every few years. I wonder why it can't be every few years for goats?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We have always done CDT. Twice yrly. The main reason is that that is what I was taught to do from my breeder. Since we've never had a problem with it, we continue. We have property that is filled with all kinds of old nails & wire that the former owners used to dump anything anywhere. The good old days when you just burned your trash, threw it under bldgs or into the blackberries. Between the LGD and me, we find tons of junk, potentially harmful should a goat step on it. Or get scratched or gouged.
The overeating part is not much of a concern....if someonoe could break the label down??

This is a good time to check if you need a tetnus shot yourself you human Goatspots! Just had my booster, who's next?

Stacey you & I posting about the same time...if someone asks for no CDT done I will also accomodate them. I stay on my program unless requested otherwise.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I do vaccinate with CD/T mainly for the tetnus, just like kids you never know whatyour goat is going to get into. I give my does one shot about six weeks before the kid. Kids get a shot at four weeks and eight weeks. And then everyone gets yearly booster right before fair time. This is just the recommended dosage that i have heard from vets. so this is what i use. 
this site has a good breakdown of the vaccine
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/pro ... f_id=16741
you can also read more bu clicking on the line that says view label information.
beth


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## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

I vaccinate for CD/T when they are 3 weeks old, 3 months old, and yearly. Tetnus wouldn't be a huge problem, but extertoxiemia could be. Our friend lost a buck to that recently. If our goats escape [which has happened many times] I want them to be safe from that.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK, Let me ask this?

IS there a certain brand that you like better then others.

Like Bar Vac, or the Colorado Serum. And Why or does it matter?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have heard Colorado Serum leaves less of a bump if injected wrong. But I have Bar Vac - I am going to order Colorado Serum to see if I can tell a difference though this year.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

When I use the Bar Vac, I get that lump all the time no matter how much rubbing I do. I have a health check and the vet was a little worried about it. I told him it was the CDT injection. He opened it and he agreed with me.
We had a discussion about the different ones. I told him what I have found out about them, and he said he would start paying more attention to it.
Well at a clinic he put on, he told the people about what I had told him and then there is asked everyone to raise their hands if they use Bar Vat, then Colorado Serum. He then asked the question if they have lumps. About 95% of the people the use the Bar Vac all had the lumps, and only about 5% with the Colorado Serum.
We talked about it and he said he was surprised that no one ever brought it up to him before I did.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

bar vac is so easy to find so hopefully colorado serum will soon as well.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't vaccinate, I have found that the kids that I have that were born on our farm (without vaccines) were healthier than my vaccinated goats. They had more of a resistance to sickness. I will vaccinate if someone wants their kid to be vaccinated. I havent had any pf my goats get a cut since I have been raising them *knock on wood*. We have used very safe fencing and have comed their pasture for anything that could hurt them.


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

I was using Bar-Vac and switched to Colorado Serum because of the lumps. Those lumps never go away on their own it seems....I have to vaccine lumps now that I need to lance. I know they are vaccine lumps because I note the injection site when I give injections. I ordered my colorado serum vaccine from Jeffers and it was inexpensive.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

note: if ordering a vaccine from jeffers try to order it in the winter months to keep from having to purchase the extra icepack and a cooler (and no you can't opt out of it, they make you purchase those extra items to keep it cool during transport) it isn't that bad but like an extra 3.50-4.00 which is almost doubling the actual cost of the vaccine. BEST to order now if you are thinking of purchasing a vaccine from Jeffers.

Learned this the hard way.


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## getchagoat (Julie) (Oct 5, 2007)

We vaccinate the moms/kids, but not our bucks. Only because the moms are vaccinated 3-4 weeks prior to kidding to give the kids immunity and kids again at weaning then a booster when they leave the farm. We don't have something easy like that to remember the bucks. It's also not a big problem in adults as much as kids. The info below is from the UT conference we went to last year and are attending again this year. What he said made sense. It's not worth the effort or money to save a kid that gets either one of these diseases. It's cheap to prevent and the kids don't have to suffer. 

We use Colorado Serum for the lump factor. We are able to get it at TSC. Stacey, this is now local for you.  We used one bottle of Covexin 8, but decided. like the guy below mentioned that the other stuff included in it are not common and why shoot them up with extra stuff?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When you give a vaccine, you are giving a disease agent, giving immunity to a more serious form of the disease. No vaccine prevents 100% of the time, there is some risk, and no one scheme works for every farm.

CD - This is an unforgiving disease. Usually not an issue with older goats, but a big concern in babies. There's not a good success rate when they get it (bloody scours and quick). When the mom is given CD&T 3-4 weeks prior to kidding, the titer in mom carries over in the colostrum to the kid. This helps to narrow the window of susceptibility in kids. Then vaccinate the kids at 4-6 weeks and another booster 4-6 weeks later. 

Tetanus - This is an easily preventative disease. You can get it in the CD&T vaccine. When the status of vaccinating is unknown, use the antitoxin to treat when banding or dehorning. You can give the toxin at the same time, in the other end of the body. Always vaccinate new animals.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Im curious, those of you that do you use the bar vac or have in the past and switched because of lumps, where did you give the vaccine? 
I use bar vac and recently switched injection points and sinse have never had a problem with getting lumps. 
beth


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I give it in the shoulder - right shoulder for the first shot, left shoulder for the booster. (don't ask my why, I just do it that way lol)


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

I do the same as Stacey


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## KikoFaerie (Jan 21, 2008)

sweetgoats said:


> I do use CD/T..
> The reason we use it, they are out in the pasture and you never know when thy might get into something that is a little"rich".
> The reason I believe it should be done. If they were to lets say for some reason just (Eat like we do at lets say Thanksgiving), then if they have NOT had the shot, they they could get really sick from it and it could kill them before you realize something is wrong. If you do the shot it will at least help to balance things out in their rumen ,and you will have a better chance of saving them.
> As for the babies.
> ...


Just wanted to clear this up - this is a disease caused by a bacteria in the soil and intestinal tract and has absolutely nothing to do with overeating. I realize its common name is not helpful in eliminating this belief.


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## KikoFaerie (Jan 21, 2008)

As for usage - We raise naturally, so that does not allow us to use the vaccines, but that does not mean I am against them. And we do vaccinate any breeding stock sold that the buyer prefers vaccinated. Those going to the locker for processing get nothing, also.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Hmm thats interesting. I used to give it behind the elbow because the walking of the goat naturally rubbed the lump out. Sinse i have started giving it in the fatty pocket of the neck and shoulder i havn't had any lumps. 
I had a vet tell me once (and i don't know if this is true or not) that if you put it on too much of an angle you're not actually getting the needle through all of the skin. You're getting in between layers of skin and thats what causes the lump. Sinse i have started giving in near the shoulder i have more skin to pull up and i go in at more of a straight shot, still just under the skin but there is more room. I wait until i feel the needle literly pop through the skin, and thats when i inject. So far this seems to be working well.
Im finding this thread very helpful and interesting. 
thanks
beth


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

SQ means subcutaneous (sp?) and that is the fatty layer below the layers of skin. 

Just like Beth said it is easy to get it between the layers and that is what causes the lump because it gets trapped.


I have my cousin do the shots for me while I hold the goat. If I do it myself I leave lumps - when she does it, no lumps  so she is better at SQ then me, and I am sure not holding the goat while injecting helps too


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Aeginaea wrote: Just wanted to clear this up - this is a disease caused by a bacteria in the soil and intestinal tract and has absolutely nothing to do with overeating. I realize its common name is not helpful in eliminating this belief. 

That is somewhat true but if a goat does overeat on grain like when getting into the grain bin, overeats on fresh lush pasture or a bottle baby overeats milk then the bacteria can take over and kill the goat. That is why if a goat gets into the grain bin it is recommended to treat with C,D antitoxin. The c,d bacteria is always in the gut of a goat but in manageable numbers till illness, stress or overeating causes it to rapidly multiply.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Teresa that is how it was explained to me as well. It certainly makes sense. 

I need to read up on this in my vet book.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Let me try to explain how the CSU vet just described it at a clinic. I might see if I can get it copied to here. It was a Power Point.

I know we were not talking about tetnes, but I thought I would put that in anyway because they are in one shot.

[align=center]*Enterotoxemia*

Also called â€œovereating diseaseâ€

Caused by C. perfringens type C or D

Spores in gut â€" already anaerobic
Waiting forâ€¦sugar, starch, or protein
Proliferate, release toxins
Absorption of toxins leads to disease

*Type C Enterotoxemia*

Purple gut, bloody gut (C = color, calves)
A disease of the â€œbest doersâ€
Young animals on rich feed, lots of milk
Rapid onset of abdominal pain
Progresses quickly to death
- may see brownish or bloody diarrhea

*Type D Enterotoxemia*

D= Dead Sheep
Toxin causes neurologic signs, possibly greenish diarrhea before death

Toxin causes rapid autolysis of kidney: hence the name, â€œpulpy kidneyâ€

*Tetanus*

C. tetani
Spores introduced via puncture wounds 
Produce toxin that acts on spinal cord
Rigidity, sensitivity to stimuli
Death from respiratory arrest, bloat[/align]


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## freetorun35 (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't vaccinate my goats at this time and here is why,

Years ago I questioned the mandatory vaccination of my children and started doing research into vaccination...I won't go into detail, but because of my research, I chose to not vaccinate my children...for a long time I still vaccinated my animals, After a reaction in my horse after vaccination, I am now questioning why I even vaccinate my animals, since I believe that human vaccinations are based on a lot of faulty science and circular thinking and so I am trying to find as much research as I can, pro and con, with animals. 

I understand that there is some risk either way, and it is my personal opinion from my own delvings that I do not vaccinate, and I hold no ill will to those who choose to vaccinate  

Any research links are greatly appreciated!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Jennifer. I know of lots of people that do not Vaccinate. I do believe it is a personal choice. I do not believe what one person does works for everyone. 
I do wonder sometimes if I stopped would something just so happen to happen then? We have discussed not doing it anymore. 
That info that I posted was from a clinic, iI just wish I could post the pictures that he had, they were very nformative for me.
I have to say that is about the only thing I do do once a year.


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## KikoFaerie (Jan 21, 2008)

*Overeating*



trob1 said:


> Aeginaea wrote: Just wanted to clear this up - this is a disease caused by a bacteria in the soil and intestinal tract and has absolutely nothing to do with overeating. I realize its common name is not helpful in eliminating this belief.
> 
> That is somewhat true but if a goat does overeat on grain like when getting into the grain bin, overeats on fresh lush pasture or a bottle baby overeats milk then the bacteria can take over and kill the goat. That is why if a goat gets into the grain bin it is recommended to treat with C,D antitoxin. The c,d bacteria is always in the gut of a goat but in manageable numbers till illness, stress or overeating causes it to rapidly multiply.


Trob - Yes, you are correct. As is the case with worms, cocci and a lot of things with animals - they are things that are always present but become an issue when they are present in overwhelming numbers.

I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on the fact that *just* eating a lot would not cause this, as I have run into people that don't understand the "overeating" name this disease got tagged with. That's all!


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## freetorun35 (Nov 6, 2007)

> "I do believe it is a personal choice. I do not believe what one person does works for everyone. "


I completley agree...this has been my personal choice, and I do NOT expect anyone else to do this unless it is their own conviction....this was just my two cents...  And I may go back to vaccinating my goats after I research into it....I feel like either way there are risks...and it is up to the individual which side they want to take the risk on, if that makes sense.


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## KikoFaerie (Jan 21, 2008)

> "I do believe it is a personal choice. I do not believe what one person does works for everyone. "


True of all things goat related, I think! As I said, we don't vaccinate, but don't advocate that as "the way" to do it. Each of us has their own goals, plans, etc. and while there are wrong ways to do things in this business, there is no ONE right way!


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Overeating*



Aeginaea said:


> trob1 said:
> 
> 
> > Aeginaea wrote: Just wanted to clear this up - this is a disease caused by a bacteria in the soil and intestinal tract and *has absolutely nothing to do with overeating*. I realize its common name is not helpful in eliminating this belief.
> ...


Yep and when you posted that it *has absolutely nothing* to do with overeating, I felt the need to make sure people understand it can be brought on by overeating, stress, and other illness. vaccinating for it doesn't mean it will never happen and c,d antitoxin and tetanus antitoxin should be in everyones home no matter wether you vaccinate or not.


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## KikoFaerie (Jan 21, 2008)

*Reread before pushing submit!*

Very good point and a lesson in typing in absolutes!! Shouldn't do it anymore than I should think in absolutes! I know better! :hammer:


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)




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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I do vaccinate for C/D and T however, on my adult goats, after they have received their "baby" vaccines or have had 2 consecutive years of vaccinations with me or proof of then I will drop down to every three years for all my animals.

I worked in Vet clinics for many years - and know that we are WAY over vaccinating our animals. It was designed as a way to get more animals in the clinics or seen by a vet since animals age so much faster then humans.

Just like the Rabies and Distemper vaccine - both have gone to a 3 year after boosters are completed and the DHPPC (Distemper mix) they are now saying that if they were vaccinated properly through young and adult life that by age 5 you should not have to give another Distemper booster the rest of their life - but your vet won't tell you that.

Also - I give mine in the left shoulder because in the clinics, right was for Rabies, left was distemper and left rear was Lyme for dogs and FELV for cats. This is standard across the US so it is something that has always stuck with me.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Allison that is great info.

So you are saying that since I did give my girls their shots and boosters last year but skipped it this year they only need a booster every couple years not a reintro of the whole shot (ie. a CD/T shot and then another 3 weeks later) because I missed their booster in the fall?

I to also think that the yearly thing is just to get more money - I mean we people don't need a booster every year on all our shots!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

That is what they came down with regarding CANINE vaccines - I have not looked to see if the same studies have been conducted on livestock - but from my personal experience with small animal medicine - that is how i have decided to do my herd.

You always have the option of taking blood and sending it in for titers. It is expensive - but some feel it is worth it.

I personally will do more research and see what I can find about the vaccines being good longer and let you know within a week what I find - if anything.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

why thank you Allison.

I figure if it is the same for dogs and cats why not goats? I know they are not totaly the same but if dogs and cats are more like us in the booster end of things then why should livestock be different?

I am find this thread to be very interesting and informative. 

So whatever you come up with Allison that would be great.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks Allison, i find this information very interesting, A couple fo the reasons i have been sucha stickler about vaccinating as i have seen some very bad cases when animals weren't cvaccinated, one was a whether my friend had he was a yearling and she lost him to tetnus, never found out really how he got it.
Another story i read about ona fellow alpine breeders website, she was at a show and one of her does puddy, got stabbed by a piece of wire that had been baled into a bale of hay. Puddy was stabbed in that little pocket between her brisket and front leg. She got a massive infection and the antibiotics din't help (something about the blood circulation not being as good there) Anyways I do believe puddy had been vaccinated (not 100% sure though) Long story short the infection got int her bone and puddy ended up losing her front leg. I guess she is very lucky to be alive, but it just kind of scares me. Now i guess this could really happen to anyone and who knows if the goat was vaccinated or not. But i guess it kind of gives me a sense of relief knowing that my goats have had their shots and in theory i would like to think they have less of a chance of contracting anything, especially sinse we do attend severl shows and fairs every year.
beth


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

See I run a closed herd at the moment with no showing and only time there is anything from outside is when it is coming to stay or to be bred. When they are coming to be bred -I have to see proof of CAE testing and vaccinations. If someone feels the way that I do - they always come out and say it - we talk about it and then we decide together how to proceed. 

It is just like my concept on Spaying / neutering large breed dogs - I REFUSE to do mine till they are 2 no matter if I have no intentions of breeding for health reasons. And once I talk to people about it - then they understand where I am coming from and accept my choice for my personal pets.

So I guess is what I am saying is everyone has their choice of what works/fits for them and their family / animals.

We all just need to respect each others choices - which I feel we all do a great job of doing! Thanks All!!!!


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## goat fever (Oct 18, 2007)

I give the C/D/T shot twice a year too the adult goats. And I will vaccinate the babies at 4 and 8 weeks old. I do this because my friend who is also my goat mentor does this. But Freetorun35 pointed out something. I too have not vaccinated my son with the required vaccines for the last three year because of personal beliefs. I work in a doctors office and the newborn human shot schedule calls for 4 immunization to be given at 2mos, and 4mos and so. Well that is rediculous if you ask me. How do you know what the poor child is reactiving to. Anyhow I believe because of the shot sechedule that is one reason for the dramatic increase in Autism in our children. So it makes me wonder why I vaccinate my goats, other than that is how I was taught to do. I will have to do more research now and decide what will work best for me and my small herd. Thanks for all of the discussion I have found it very informative.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Allison, I also would lire to thank you for the information. I have wanted to stop the CDT but as you can see the info the vet gave us, just makes you scared to death and makes sure you do the shot. 
I have to say I do not give any vaccines to any of my dogs or cats, so I guess it really would be the same for the goats.
I really appreciate your information.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

You know Anna, its funny that you mention that. I am not against vaccins for kids but what i am against is how many they give at any given time. My friend has a five month old baby, i took them to the babies last apointment, sophie got three shots that day. If she had had a reaction how would the doctor know to which she had the reaction to? My mom and i were just talking about this the other day. 
I have always kept myself up on my tetnus shot because i am outside and around animals a lot. And my parents always took me to the doctor when i was young to have the required shots. But a lot of them are required to go to school. I have several friends who refuse to have their kids get their shots, and that is entirely up to them, But in the public school system are there ways around this? Or is there no choice but to do homeschooling in this kind of situation?
beth


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## freetorun35 (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi beth,

I haven't vaccinated my two legged's since my 15 year old daughter was 18 months old. They have been in the public school system in Alaska, Ohio, Washington state, and Michigan...What most parents don't know is that in most states there are at least religious and Medical exemptions from the vaccines, and in a lot of states there are psychological, or personal exemptions...you don't really have to have a reason to not have your kids vaccinated. There are a few websites that help parents with this as well, to help find out what the laws are in the state.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Ok back to the topic of goats and C,D & T the main reasons I vaccinate is fear of the unknown. I can see where an older doe might not need the continual vaccinations, it makes alot of scence to me. But with the tetnus it really scares me when I see how goats always rub and press against stuff and with all that fur it is sometimes hard to see they have cut or poked themselves. I just personally like to take the better safe than sorry route with my goats.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have a question though.

Some of my girls were suppose to get their yearly CD/T in the fall. But since they are to kid in may I decided to push it off so that they get their booster 4 weeks before their due date. 

What are you thoughts: do I need to start the shot series again or can I just give a booster in April eventhough it is like 18 months since their last booster.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Well for me when I get a new goat and they are off my schedule I go ahead and work it out to get them on my schedule. If they were origionally on a fall shot schedule I would give that shot then give them the shot again 30 prior to kidding as usual. Then stay on the once a year when breeding is always in the fall for spring kids. If not then I would do the first series of shots so that the last one is 4 weeks before kidding.

A breeder I know who runs a buck with the herd usually give shots twice a year so that the babies are protected at birth. Before he did this he had a lot of kid loses due to ethro. But he has a herd of about 100 does.

This is just what I would do for my herd Stacey.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well I thought of doing it back in the fall but I didn't have help and then I went to visit my brother in Chicago................. so I figured I would catch up at kidding time since two of them are already on a spring shot schedule.

So you are saying I need to do the series of shots again? 

it isn't that big of a deal I just don't want to over do it if I don't have to.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Well if I were to get a goat and know nothing about her vaccination history I would do the series again.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I know it won't hurt to do it again I just was thinking it would save me money not to- oh well I guess I will start everyone one over again and just be good and not forget! 

I better get my CD/T ordered!


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## freetorun35 (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't agree...the biggest reason you are even vaccinating them is so the kids will be protected...It really takes a lot for an adult goat to get tetanus...the wound has to be deep as the tetanus can only grow where there is no oxygen...they cannot get it from just a scratch. You would definitely know if they had a serious wound like that...I keep the antitoxin on hand for just this purpose...and overeating disease is very rare in adult goats.....and if your goats are on a regular vaccination schedule to start with, the immunity is not going to wear off if you wait a few extra months....my concern would be overdoing it, as the vaccines contain harmful ingredients like formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum which can accumulate if the vaccine is given too often.

Like I said before, the biggest reason for the vaccines is to protect the kids, as they could have bacteria get in through the umbilical cord, they are also vulnurable to tetanus when they are disbudded, tattooed and wethered. And it is only the kids who are at risk for the overeating disease, and the booster that you give your does 30 days prior to kidding as well as the vaccines you give to your kids will cover all that.


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## moonspinner (Oct 5, 2007)

To the question about why tetanus is more important when you have horses is, as I understand it, horse manure is a breeding ground for that organism.
I vaccinate does once a year pre-kidding mainly for baby protection. I vaccinate kids just once. My bucks only get it once every two years. I do not vaccinate prior to disbuddings or castrations. 
The thinking now is vaccines give longer protection than was previously either thought or revealed. Lots of junky stuff in vaccines from what I read, so I don't overdo it.
Does the Colorado serum prevent lumps across the board? I give shots in the armpit which greatly reduces, but not altogether, lumps.


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## Dover Farms (Oct 16, 2007)

We vaccinate our goats every year. We've had some friends of ours have kids and the didn't give the kids CD+T and they lost one to what we think(from the symptoms) was over eating disease.


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## Dairy Goat Lovers (Oct 8, 2007)

we vaccinate our goats and sheep once a year our vet comes out and does them 

we do it so if they get a cut or their hoof gets trimmed to far we know they are covered our vet said to do it yearly so that is what we do he has been our vet since 1996 and he was our older brothers vet when they had animals and he has not done anything wrong yet and they have been healthly so we will continue to give them unless our vet advises against it :wink:


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

:scratch: I DO give the CD/T--Bar Vac brand. A vet that specializes in goats told me that they are not born with a functioning immune system. It does not develop until about 10 weeks. the shot, also known as an immunization, is a dead or weakened form of whatever disease you are vaccinating against. the purpose of introducing a weak virus into the body is to stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. So if the goat or person is exposed to a full fledged version of the disease, the immune system recognizes the virus, and already has the defence against it. If there is no immune system, the body can't have an immune response to the vaccine. Goats are unique, not being born with a functioning immune system. That is why the nanny's milk is so important to baby goats. I can't explain why bottle babies fed formula turn out fine though. Humans are born with a fully functioning immune system. 
Some of the websites I have visited, have posted that they have stopped using vaccinations because they do not work, and go on to reccomend the 3 and 6 week schedule. So that is why it is not working for them. My pregnate does get theirs 1 month before they deliver and my babies get one at 10 wks and a booster at 13 wks.
Candy


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

We give Cd/t shots when the kids are 2 months old and then 2 weeks later booster. We then give it annually after that. we give the Does cd/t 2-3 weeks before they kid so the kids can have some immunity as well.


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh and another reason we give CD/t is because we tattoo our kids and it's just a safeguard against any infection setting in after that.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

why do you give the booster 2 weeks later? mine says 3 -4 weeks later :?


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

Good question, Stacy. I also give the booster at 3 wks. Then I give my does their yearly dose 1 mo. before thet are due to kid. Candy


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

hmm i just looked at my bottle and it does say 21-28 days later but this is the bigger bottle and different bradn than we usually use. Maybe the smaller bottle is 2 weeks or maybe i just read it wrong but we usualy give it 2 weeks later.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have the small bar vac bottle and it says 21-28 days.


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

what brand do you use? Maybe it was my vet that told me 2 weeks. I dont know but that's the way we do it.


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

I use Bar-Vac and have used GoatVac. Both of them are labled to repeat in 2 to 3 weeks. :?
Some times these vets aren't used to working with goats. I know I should have charged mine for a college course. But we both studied until we got it right! LOL :hi5:
Candy


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

OUr vet knows goats. He raises sheep himself and he is the 4-h and FFA vet for the surroudning schools.
He is knowledgeable about goats. Maybe I just got mixed up on the time frame.


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## rlittlecritters (Apr 27, 2008)

I give the first cd/t shot around 6 weeks and then 4 weeks later the booster. 
My bottle of BarVac also says 21-28 days later for the booster.


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

Since goats are not born with an active immunine system and it takes between 10 to 12 weeks to develop to the point where the vaccinations do any good. Why give them before that time? :? I stay between and give at 10 wks and booster in 3 wks. 
Candy


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

because I read in a study that 6 weeks is when you can give it thats why. You are the first person to say 10 weeks --- and everyone else and this study I read says 6 weeks. Not saying you are wrong but I go with what i have learned.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Okay, I just have a quick question. . . . I am way off in the timing of this but I just found this thread. Here goes. . . .

Most of my goats live at my uncle and aunt's farm. They have horses. The horses are 2 pastures away (at least 300 yards away, probably further) - sometimes a horse or two are let out on the pasture the goats are on for the day. Would this be a problem for tetanus? I just recently decided to try not vaccinating for a period of one year to start and see how it goes. I'm a little nervous but our herd is small and well-maintained. We are trying to raise our goats more naturally and I am honestly sick of vaccinating. I still plan to vaccinate pregnant does five weeks before kidding to protect the kids for their disbudding and those first few weeks, just in case.

So, do I have this right? Um, the tetanus can only grow in a closed wound or an open wound? Sorry but I got confused on that point. Can it grow in both situations? 

Thanks!


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## Candy (May 14, 2008)

"Tetanus is an illness caused by Clostridium Tetany and is characterized by stiffening and a lack of coordination. The classic symptom is referred to as "lock jaw" (the old name for this disease). If the chin of the victim is tapped sharply, the eyes will roll up. Tetanus most often occurs due to wounds (deep or shallow) that have not been allowed to bleed properly. Fever accompanies this disease and quite often, loud noises will cause the goat to convulse. Vitamin C can act to detoxify the clostridia before this disease reaches critical stages. Tetanus is a very painful disease. Immunizations may stop tetanus from developing, but they will not stop it from occuring if conditions are right for it to develop. It is believed that adult goats build a natural immunity to tetanus - younger goats are more likely to contract tetanus. There are two types of tetanus shots available; tetanus toxoid (which is the immunization) and tetanus detoxoid (antitoxin). Tetanus toxoid SHOULD NOT be given within six weeks after a wound has been treated. Tetanus detoxoid is the injection given at the time the wound is initially treated." ---quoted from Goat World Article

Infection normally occurs from a wound contaminated by dirt, dust or feces. In this period, the organism multiplies and produces its lethal toxin.

"The toxin penetrates the nerves around the wound and travels to the spinal cord and brain where it fixes to nerve cells to produce exaggerated and uncontrollable muscle spasms. Death usually occurs three to four days after the animal becomes sick." quoted from AmberWaves pages
Candy


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## tat2edlady (Jan 19, 2009)

Ok I am way off course on giving my does their shots but I have cd&t shots here my bottle(GOATVAC brand) says to give 2 ml sq and than again at 3 to4 weeks but my question is do I give my older does a second shot 3 to 4 weeks after the first that would put then just having their kidds. 2nd question is the boster shot the same as the first round the 2 ml sq or is it a smaller dose.and as I have never had kidds before what is the correct way to give them their vacs.


Ps I have had my does for almost 1 1/2 years and did not give them any vacs last year the last time they had the cd&t was when they left the breeders farm to come here.Have I put my does and buck at risk for problems any info will help..



Mindy


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Give your does the 2ml 5 weeks before the due dates, then the same dose...2ml, 3 weeks later. This will get it into them before they deliver and the kids are protected as well.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Mindy CDT is always 2cc...the first dose on your kids then 28 days later if I remember correctly.
Your grown does do not need the 28 day later booster.
My girls get it twice a year; a few weeks before breeding & a few weeks before kidding.


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## tat2edlady (Jan 19, 2009)

ok well this is what has happened I did not make the 30 day before due date I have 1 doe that is due to kid June 16 so I have ordered the cd anti-toxin for her babys and will do that shot for the rest of the girls as a prevent but all will get the cd&t today.and the kidds will get the cd anti shot just to make sure thay are protected till they get their shots.

Mindy


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I use it. I've used BarVac and the Colorado Serum vaccine and they both cause knots in about 50% of our goats. Usually on revaccination there is no additional bump. For those who show and are worried about the bump on a shaved goat, you can give the shot in the skin fold behind the very upper portion of the front leg and it won't show so badly, although most judges can tell the difference between a vaccination knot and a CL lesion.


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