# Bottle Baby Questions? New to goats!



## SeemsLegit (Mar 16, 2014)

Hello all! I'm new here, so go easy on me.(;

Three or so days ago, we went to auction and purchased two one-week-old Nubian bucklings. I've never had goats before (despite always wanting them), but my stepdad has a ton of experience with them and so we're going off of what we've been told, what we've read, and what he advises. With that said, I'd love some outside opinions!

We have Bert (the smaller beige baby, who has become seriously attached to me) and Ernie (the larger, darker one); they're both doing very well, considering the stress of the auction. The first day they were lethargic on the way home and we could only get 2oz into them, but we've worked up to 6-8oz four or so times a day depending. We're using milk replacer. Their spirits are high and they're the funniest, quirkiest guys.

With that said, I'm confused concerning a few things. Firstly, the state of baby poop: Bert has harder poop, whereas Ernie's is very runny. Both are bright yellow. Is this normal? I was told it is nothing to worry about yet, as they're still very young, but opinions seem to be mixed. As well, the little guys seem to be constantly cold - they're beginning to grasp the idea of nestling into the hay and snuggling up to one another, but is this the best way to get them used to the cold? Should I be bringing them in when they shiver, or force them to regulate their own temperature? I'm just glad they were born late enough to miss majority of this Canadian winter.(;

Thank you!

And now some pictures, because I can't resist!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

The first thing I notice is that your guys are not the same size, so they probably should not be getting the same amount of milk. Weigh each of them, convert their weight to ounces by multiplying by 16, multiply that number by 11% and divide the resulting number by 4. Feed that amount every 6 hours. For example - it looks like the smaller kid might weigh around 6 to 7 lbs, so 7 X 16 = 112. 112 X 11% = 12.32. Round up to 13 and divide by 4 = 3.25 ounces of milk every 6 hours. A few times a week after they have finished their bottle, stand them up and stand over them facing the same direction. Place 2 fingers of each hand on their tummy in front of their hip bones - you want to feel full and firm, not hard, not squishy. If you feel hard or squishy, adjust milk down or up. 

Bright yellow poo is normal, but runny is usually an indication that the kid is getting too much milk. Hard poo can be an indication that the kid is not getting enough milk. Keep an eye on the one who is scouring to make sure he does not become dehydrated. 

As far as the shivering goes - I do everything in power to keep my kids as warm as possible short of bringing them in the house. I do not recommend forcing them to regulate their temperature, because that energy could be better used for growth. Do you have, or can you get a hold of a large cat carrier, a small dog kennel, or build a covered wood box big enough for 2 kids that will allow for some growth? If so, put a towel or a good amount of straw in it, a heavy towel or blanket over the top of it, and put it in their pen/enclosure/stall. You may have to put them in it to get the point across the first time, but it will keep them snug and toasty warm. I would not bring them in unless absolutely necessary because it will only cause problems when it comes time to re-acclimate them to their outside environment later.

You've got a couple of awfully cute kids there! I wish you the very best with them!


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

Oh wow they are tooooo Cute!! Do you know what they were fed before you got them? Just the switch of replacement milk can give them the runny yellow poo..
I agree you should weigh them once a week and use the equation above to figure out just how much they need.. They will keep eating until they pop if you let them so you don't want to overfeeding them, it can make them sick..
But good luck with these guys, they are gorgeous babies  love the ears 


TheRockinFunFarm


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## SeemsLegit (Mar 16, 2014)

MsScamp said:


> The first thing I notice is that your guys are not the same size, so they probably should not be getting the same amount of milk. Weigh each of them, convert their weight to ounces by multiplying by 16, multiply that number by 11% and divide the resulting number by 4. Feed that amount every 6 hours. For example - it looks like the smaller kid might weigh around 6 to 7 lbs, so 7 X 16 = 112. 112 X 11% = 12.32. Round up to 13 and divide by 4 = 3.25 ounces of milk every 6 hours. A few times a week after they have finished their bottle, stand them up and stand over them facing the same direction. Place 2 fingers of each hand on their tummy in front of their hip bones - you want to feel full and firm, not hard, not squishy. If you feel hard or squishy, adjust milk down or up.
> 
> Bright yellow poo is normal, but runny is usually an indication that the kid is getting too much milk. Hard poo can be an indication that the kid is not getting enough milk. Keep an eye on the one who is scouring to make sure he does not become dehydrated.
> 
> ...


Thank you! We started them on that this morning. They're used to way bigger feedings so there was quite a bit of sucking on clothing/jumping on/insistent nudging that followed, but I figure once they're on routine they should be fine! And, yes! We actually found an old, larger rabbit hutch on the property, so I took that and covered the top and sides with wood panels in order to give them a closed place where they could safe, snuggle, and be warm. We're still bringing them in at night, into the part of the house that is not heated (the tack room bathroom), mostly to ensure their protection from coyotes until the fence is up and strong enough to fend them off without a doubt. I super appreciate your input as, like I said, we have little to no idea what we're doing.(8



Mikesell04 said:


> Oh wow they are tooooo Cute!! Do you know what they were fed before you got them? Just the switch of replacement milk can give them the runny yellow poo..
> I agree you should weigh them once a week and use the equation above to figure out just how much they need.. They will keep eating until they pop if you let them so you don't want to overfeeding them, it can make them sick..
> But good luck with these guys, they are gorgeous babies  love the ears


We don't know, unfortunately! I'm assuming milk from their mother, though we know she died (no idea when, but that is the reason they were in auction) so it's really up in the air. Thank you! I'll keep that in mind, for sure. Don't want to be over-feeding them. And thanks again, I love them too.(;

We had a scare with them this morning, when a wandering dog showed up and was looking very interested. Needless to say, my mother and I went into mama-bear mode and chased that sucker off the property, lmao.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

What gorgeous boys, I LOVE the colors!  . 
In a couple weeks or less you should leave some nice green hay in their pen and maybe offer a few pieces of sweet feed for them to taste. At first they might just mouth the food or lay on it, but eventually they'll start eating it, and that helps their rumens develop. 
If they aren't dehorned and you want them hornless, you'll have to have it done within a week preferably, and no more than two weeks. A goat breeder or vet should be able to do it for you.
And I'm guessing you'll castrate them too, but wait until they're about three months to prevent urinary calculi.
Have fun with the little guys!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I forgot to add that if you can get some alfalfa hay, keep some leaves in front of them. Poke their noses in the leaves to get them to eat. They are too small for pellets right now, but they should be able to handle grain. I don't know what you have available in the way of grain, but High Noon makes a feed called Monkey Munch that smells and tastes like bananas. Sunglo makes a feed called S'more Fill that is oats with little bits of marshmallow in it. I was having trouble getting my bottle kids going on grain until I got a bag of the S'more - they dove into it and are eating it very well! Put a very small handful in front of them, poke a bit in their mouth each time you bottle them, and keep the hay and grain fresh. I give anything my bottle babies haven't eaten to my does.


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## Bertnut2 (Feb 9, 2014)

They are so adorable. 


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## SeemsLegit (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you everyone! 

We ran into a bit of a pickle, concerning feeding. When we cut them down to 4oz per feeding, it was clear the little guys were still hungry and they went from runny poop to no poop whatsoever. So, we've had to adjust the formula a wee bit. We're settling on around 6oz per feeding for now (10oz before bed) and we'll see how that sits with them for the time being. Hopefully they settle and have normal poop, for once. If it gets runny again, we'll have to re-evaluate and figure out a better balance. 

I seriously appreciate all the comments, advice, and tips. It's nice to know there are people I can fall back on, need be! You're all lovely.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Get some alfalfa leaves and very small stems in front of them, too. It will help fill them up between feedings and get their rumens started. My dam raised kids are nibbling at hay by a day or two old. By the time they are a week they are eating a small amount of leaves and fine stems. Around two weeks old they are going after the hay for real, and by a month old they are jumping in the hay feeders come feeding time.


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## kyndal_98 (Feb 9, 2014)

We refuse to use milk replacer. We have had countless problems with it giving them scours and such. Get online and look up the reviews on using milk replacer. They usually aren't good. We use this recipe:


1 gallon of vitamin d milk
1 can evaporated milk
1 cup butter milk

Mix together the buttermilk and evaporated milk. Take enough whole milk out of the gallon to put the mixture in. Shake it up in the jug. Done!

This is a super easy was to get kids enough nutrients without worry of scours. Hope this helps!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

While you're looking up milk replacer reviews, look up reviews for whole milk. They aren't real good either. There is nothing wrong with milk replacer _*as long as it is GOOD quality*_. Buy the cheap crap, and yes you will have problems. I've used milk replacer for my bottle kids for 7 years and have never had a problem with scours - ever.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

My bottle babies all come from a grade A dairy where all the babies are fed milk replacer. They and I use does match. Out of my six I've never had any trouble and same with my breeder and they have hundreds to raise every year. But ,what has already been said bears repeating. Use a brand made for goats only and don't buy the cheaper formulas. Have fun with your babies!


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## anawhitfield (Jun 9, 2013)

A couple of suggestions: I make my kids jackets out of old pant legs or old jackets sleeves. See pix attached.
I always have JumpStart on hand (from Tractor Supply). This supposedly stabilizes their digestive tract and help with scours and such.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/manna-proreg;-jump-start-plus-60-g


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## kyndal_98 (Feb 9, 2014)

To clear things up, we didn't use the cheap stuff. We just find the whole milk mix works better for us. You guys have what works for you and we use what works for us. I was just making a suggestion.


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## kyndal_98 (Feb 9, 2014)

And by the way, I'd like to see some of those good articles on using milk replacer. I sure can't find any.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Keep it friendly, keep it fun.


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## SeemsLegit (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you, everyone! I appreciate the differing opinions, but after spending the amount we did there's no way we're switching - and, the little ones are doing wonderfully on the milk replacer! They're getting 6oz per feeding (except before bed, where they get 8oz), and their poop has returned to normal and their spirits are high. 

Another question, though! How did you all teach your goats to walk on a lead? I've made a collar and have just been leading them around a few minutes a day and it's going well, but there's still some reluctance and struggle for sure. Ideas? Thanks!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

kyndal_98 said:


> And by the way, I'd like to see some of those good articles on using milk replacer. I sure can't find any.


I never referenced any articles on milk replacer, my response was solely based on experience.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

SeemsLegit said:


> Thank you, everyone! I appreciate the differing opinions, but after spending the amount we did there's no way we're switching - and, the little ones are doing wonderfully on the milk replacer! They're getting 6oz per feeding (except before bed, where they get 8oz), and their poop has returned to normal and their spirits are high.
> 
> Another question, though! How did you all teach your goats to walk on a lead? I've made a collar and have just been leading them around a few minutes a day and it's going well, but there's still some reluctance and struggle for sure. Ideas? Thanks!


Hi again 
I'm glad your babies are doing good. Like I said ,I had good results,too,with the replacer. 
I used raisins as a bribe when my babies were a little older when I was teaching them to lead. But my experience is that they will get it with some practice and pets when they do good. A scratch on their favorite spot goes a long ways!

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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

What cute kids! It sounds like you are doing all the right things! As with everything goat, when you want 
to change something, do it gradually! Feed, hay, milk, etc. Best of luck with your boys! Enjoy them, they 
are a lot of fun. (and great time wasters, hard to get anything done when watching babies play!)


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## SeemsLegit (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks again, all. Super appreciate it. The leading is coming along nicely, a few struggles still aside, but we'll see how it goes! And yes, aha, fabulous time-wasters! 

What is all of your opinions on debudding? My stepdad wants to do it himself (no pain medication and with a steel rod or something of the sort, not my cup to tea) whereas I'm on the fence about the whole idea. Are horns really that much of an issue that they need to be removed? The boys won't be in shows or anything of the sort, so I'm a wee stuck.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't disbud my goats. Their horns act as radiators and help keep them cool when it's hot. I also like the way they look. Yes, I've had a few get their heads stuck in the cattle and hog panels but, since I've added that to my cull criteria, it rarely happens any more. I've also had horns catch in my pockets and been hit by a few, but it doesn't happen often enough to warrant disbudding.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There are several threads on here about horns vs no horns. 

I disbud. I have had too many bruises and a near miss to my eye. I don't have time to be mindful of horns but I also milk.


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

I wish i would have!! Especially my buck.. I have been horned on accident and it hurts!! My daughter was horned pretty bad as well.. Left a long bruise down her leg.. Also I have seen it done and it's horrible to watch.. You want to make sure whoever does it does it right or they will grow the weird looking horns anyway.. 


TheRockinFunFarm


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## cteague (Aug 17, 2013)

I gave my babies jumpstart. Its a great probiotic for anytime they are under stress. Now that they are grown they still get it. Anytime I deworm or give a shot or even trimming their hooves. And it's good for them. The best part is they love it and they will stand in line to get it.

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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you for this thread. I found it very informative.


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