# Good Escutcheons



## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Can some one show me pictures of good escutcheons and bad. I just need a better idea.
Thank you


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I’m going to follow your thread. Lol I’ve been wanting to know the same thing but just haven’t taken the time to ask or make a thread about it.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Basically, when viewing a goat from the rear, you want to see an upside down "U" and not a "V". This goes for both does and bucks. You want them to be nice and wide back there so they can have higher and stronger udder attachments, more capacity, and easier kiddings. I think Backyard Goats gave a great description of what an escutcheon is and why it matters: 

_*"Where is the escutcheon on a goat and why is it important?"*
"The escutcheon (/əˈskəCHən/) arch in a goat is the pelvic arch below the tail and above the udder. In kids, when you lift them, it is the area that you can set your hand up into. An escutcheon may be an inverted V shape, an inverted U shape, or somewhere in between. Ideally, we would like the inverted U shape with a wide base. This allows for sufficient width for a wide rear udder, which ideally gives us more mammary for more milk production, along with a naturally occurring wide rear leg set to be able to comfortably walk around a wide udder. Because we want this wide arch in does for milk production, we also want them in our bucks, as we will be milking their daughters. It is amazing how many pinched, inverted V-shaped escutcheons are out there. An experienced breeder can start looking at the escutcheon arches within a couple of days of birth to see what they have in their kids for potential rear udder capacity."_

For some real-life examples of ideal and non-ideal escutcheons, there's good comparison pictures in here (page 17): https://cornerstonefarm.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Easy-Dairy-Goat-Conformation.pdf

Here's a link with great and a little more in-depth information about escutcheons and udders in general: Down Under with Udders!

I thought this would be helpful too. See how the escutcheon on the left is narrow and V shaped while the one on the right is a lot wider and U shaped?









Hope this helps!


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## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Thank you that helps alot!


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Basically, when viewing a goat from the rear, you want to see an upside down "U" and not a "V". This goes for both does and bucks. You want them to be nice and wide back there so they can have higher and stronger udder attachments, more capacity, and easier kiddings. I think Backyard Goats gave a great description of what an escutcheon is and why it matters:
> 
> _*"Where is the escutcheon on a goat and why is it important?"*
> "The escutcheon (/əˈskəCHən/) arch in a goat is the pelvic arch below the tail and above the udder. In kids, when you lift them, it is the area that you can set your hand up into. An escutcheon may be an inverted V shape, an inverted U shape, or somewhere in between. Ideally, we would like the inverted U shape with a wide base. This allows for sufficient width for a wide rear udder, which ideally gives us more mammary for more milk production, along with a naturally occurring wide rear leg set to be able to comfortably walk around a wide udder. Because we want this wide arch in does for milk production, we also want them in our bucks, as we will be milking their daughters. It is amazing how many pinched, inverted V-shaped escutcheons are out there. An experienced breeder can start looking at the escutcheon arches within a couple of days of birth to see what they have in their kids for potential rear udder capacity."_
> ...


Great explanation!


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## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Can you only tell a good escutcheon when the does full? Just curious example when my doe is full looks like upside down u but when not full looks more like a upside down v.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Locklyn said:


> Can you only tell a good escutcheon when the does full? Just curious example when my doe is full looks like upside down u but when not full looks more like a upside down v.


Do you have a picture? The way it was explained to me was that if a doe has a nice arch to her escutcheon (this can be seen before she freshens, not talking about udder here), she has the potential to have a nice wide udder arch when her udder comes in, but if she doesn't have a U-shaped arch to her escutcheon, she probably won't have a nice wide udder arch. You can view the escutcheon even when the udder isn't full, but it would probably help to judge when her udder is full.


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## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Heres a pre kidding this year and last year first freshener full. I think the upside down v at the top of her udder is what I'm questioning.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Udders change a lot pre vs post freshening.  IMO she has a nice udder arch post freshening! Even when an udder is full pre-freshening, it will probably look different when full post-freshening. When you look at the leg set pre-freshening you can still see potential for a good escutcheon, which she fulfilled with a nice rear udder arch post freshening! I'll see if I can find a picture of one of my does pre vs post freshening to compare.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Pre-Fresh, few hours before she kidded








12 hour fill, 6 weeks post fresh. She had a 5.9lb single buckling and 1lb DOA doeling.


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## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Thank you for the info! From what I can tell she has a higher escutcheon maybe I'm wrong just trying to figure out if she's got a decent udder. I think her foreudder looks okay too pre kidding.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Here's a diagram for escutcheon height as that is different from the v shape vs u shape.  A bit hard to tell from the picture, but I'd say she has nice escutcheon height.


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## Locklyn (Jan 14, 2021)

Okay maybe intermediate height lol


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