# Double Worming ???



## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi Everyone, I need a little help. 

Dairy Goat Buck 3 years old. Thought he had worms, treated him with pellets from Tractor Supply. 2 weeks later- Treated him with Safeguard (fenbendazole). Goat at this point is already very anemic. (Had loaned him out for 4H Kid, did not realize he was sick when he came back) 2 Days after the Safeguard, he starting acting much better, moving about, talking, eating, drinking well, etc. etc. 
2 Days after that, he won't get up without me helping him.

Called Vet on Friday. Vet gave me Ivomec for injection. Goat has Large Strongyles. Gave goat injection on Friday. Saturday, still had to get goat up with help. He is eating, drinking when I put the bucket of water/gatorade in front of him. Very weak still, lays down, not himself, staring etc. 

Now I am reading threads that say I should have orally given him the Ivomec and not subcutaneous. He is really no better than he was Friday. 

Should I put him back on the Safeguard? If so, how long should I wait before I do? and how often would you give it? 


He is also getting Red Cell 2x a day 15ml 
Drench
Probios
Vitamin B Tablets 

All the green weeds I can cut down and 2nd cut hay. 
16% Protein Show goat feed- 1 cup 2x a day. 

Does anyone else have advice on this? 

Thank you in advance. 
Kimberly


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Safeguard will do nothing for strongyle. What dosage Ivomec did you give him? I'd get a rumen bolus or flat warm dark beer into him. You need to work on his rumen.


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double Worming*

He got 5 ml of the Ivermectin 1%


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

(Edit) Don't know why my post didn't show up...

Anyway, what I said was, that's WAY too much red cell. How much does he weigh? It's 6cc per 100lbs once a day, and very easy to overdose.


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## Survey0r (Nov 25, 2014)

Pittsewing said:


> He got 5 ml of the Ivermectin 1%


5ml is enough to treat a goat 150+ lbs. Sub Q is good.
Get another fecal done. Ivomectin has been shown to be ineffective in places.
May have to use cydectin or other wormer.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You will also need to treat the anemia..

red cell ( 6 cc per 100# oral) or Injectable pig iron ( 4 cc per 100# injected) once a day for a week then once a week until color improves
Daily B 12 injectable vitamin(RX) or B complex PLUS
Lots of natural browse foods, leaves, pine, cedar, vines ect...
mix 50/50 apple cider vinegar with water...drench 30 cc once daily to help speed recovery

have another fecal done about 5 days after the ivomec was given to check effectiveness.


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

I just dealt with a worm overload in a 3 year old Nanny that was anemic. Vet suspected barber poles. She had me do cattle cydectin pour on orally. I also did end up doing the ivemec plus every 10 days 3x's injectable subq. 
That was a lot of worming. The cydectin smells like you are giving them diesel to drink. I am sure it killed stuff! I could not tell you which wormer cleared her but I will tell you she came out of it and is looking good and no anemia. 
I also was giving her red cell but only did it 3 days in a row and did 3/4 the dose she required. 
Sick animals are weak and need help but I get concerned with hurting them with my help sometimes. In hind sight, she was weak for a while before I bought her. It has taken her a while to bounce back but clearing her of the worms was huge for her. 
Good luck


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double Worming*

Ok- SO now I realize that I have overdosed my goat with the RED CELL. SO SO Stupid !!!

When I went to the barn, he was outside, on his side laying down, with his head down. I thought he was dead. I got him to sit up. Started giving him B12 meltaways tablets from Purity Products. Gave him Gatorade. Figured if he was going to die due to my stupidity, the B12 can't hurt any worse.

Daughter went to store to get MOM. Gave him 30 ml of that. He is 150lb. Then I mixed up 1 TBL of Activated Charcoal and 1 TBL of water, crushed it in blender, gave that to him.

I got his scours fixed apparently with the Blackberry tea I made last night.

**He did get up and walk around a bit. He stood for an hour and ate Maple leaves, tall weeds we have here, and wild rose bush branches. He has free choice hay.

Is there anything else? I so appreciate all the suggestions.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are you able to get injectable B-Complex in the cattle section at your local livestock store? That would be much more effective than the tablets in my opinion.

He will likely begin scouring again due to the MOM.

For future reference - the pelleted dewormers are generally ineffective. Oral dewormers are the best choices for goats.

What is his FAMACHA score at this point?

The best you can do is keep him propped up (not laying flat) when possible, keep offering him all the good weeds and tree branches and hay he will eat, keep plain water and electrolytes in front of him. Continue the daily probiotics. And as suggested earlier, have a fecal analysis done 10 days after the ivermectin dose to see what the parasite load is and treat again if needed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice given.


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double Wormer*

He is a 5. Has been for a week. Vet said it will take weeks to get that even slightly pink.

I do have a question about the Probiotic Plus Paste- that is 5CC once a day? Or should we go twice?

Yes- the MOM has now made him scour.

Should I put him back on the blackberry tea. That fixed it last night.

Also- he is eating hay and green weeds, branches, etc.

I have been using now the Goat Electrolyte stuff. He is getting it though a nipple and bottle, like if you were to bottle feed a baby goat.

He is peeing.

I heard his belly gurgle and he did chew a cud. Thank goodness.

Is this all a good sign?

I appreciate all the advice.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Yes, eating, peeing, gurgling and cudding are all good signs!

If it were me, I would give him another dose of blackberry tea, that should help with the scours. MOM may have to run it's course, but the tea may help slow it down a bit.

Once a day for probiotics is normal, you really don't need to give it twice. They can only use so much extra bacteria, the rest is just passed out the other end and wasted. 

When my goats get a bad worm load (usually in August and always Barberpole worm) I use Dectomax. That stuff is awesome.

When I get a new adult goat, I give them a "cocktail" of 3 different wormer "families". For me, I mix Valbazen, cydectin and Prohibit. Kills almost all the worms to give the goat a good start in the herd.


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double Worming Update*

I tended him at 4 hour intervals throughout the night. Making sure he had fresh leaves etc. Appetite was good.

This morning, I tried to get him to stand so I could move him to fresh bedding, and he cannot even support himself.

We had to literally lift and slide him over to fresh bedding.

I have been getting him to drink goat electrolytes, both by bottle, and a little out of a bowl. His poop is pelleted although a bit clumped together. The floor is wet, he is peeing.

He is eating leaves, rose bushes, everything he loves here.

I was unable to get B complex injection, TS did not have it. Crushed up two B Complex tablets and put onto a piece of bread. He ate the bread.

He is sitting up, he was laying down at 7 this morning, on his side, etc. But I got him into an upright position.

Just very concerned he cannot support himself when we try and lift him to a stand.

Any thoughts on this weakness?

Thank you again for everyone that has helped.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have white tail deer in your area?


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*DOuble Worming*

YES-----TONS----- The kid I loaned him for stud service to, lures them to his farm. Kid lost his male buck over the winter, for reasons unknown.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Then you have to consider meningeal worm. Safeguard at 1cc per 5 lbs for 5 days in a row and injected Ivomec along with Banamine and Dex are the treatment. But once they are down, prognosis isn't good. Necropsy of spinal cord will tell you if he had it unfortunately.


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double Worming*

He got his Ivermectin on Friday from the Vet, can I dose him today with the Safeguard? I mean at this point, what would it hurt? Right?

Any chance he picked up Johnes on that farm?


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

I have dosed Ivermec then dosed another wormer in less than 10 days before on an adult and had no problems. Karen should chime in on this though as I am unfamiliar with the deer worm she mentioned.

Just wanted to mention a comment on Johne's. I am waiting on lab work on a sick cow we have that tested for Johne's and few other cow diseases. With Johne's they can display bottle jaw in the late stages and as far as it spreading the articles I read said the organism/disease does not fair well out of the host but can live in the environment for up to a year. My vet said it mostly passes from baby to mom through colostrum and the article said it passes on from saliva, feces and milk, also that it is most potent in the infected animal at the very late stages of the disease. All that to say you may need to investigate the farm your buck was at for Johne's and research on the disease.

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/173/johnes-disease/
This is one of the articles I read. It can show up in any ruminant. I am still learning about it so I apologize if there is a ton of conflicting information.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You have to do the Ivomec and safeguard at the same time along with the banamine or dex.


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## Pittsewing (Mar 9, 2014)

*Double worming Update*

So on Tuesday evening, Vet came out and did a blood transfusion that went very well. Goat was still too weak to get up that evening. Wednesday morning, goat was alert, talking, and we were able to stand him up for about 15 minutes.

Noontime we stood him up again, and again for about 15 minutes he was able to hold his weight. The late afternoon he was still talking. The whole time he has been eating and drinking.

Last evening, he was not talking or perky. He had laid himself on his side and looked tired.

Oh- at 3pm we started him on a 10ml dose of Safeguard thinking this may be still related to Meeniga worms. Vet said that dose for 5 days. Got up at 3am and went to check on him and he is still very tired acting. Not talking.

This morning, no talking, his eye membranes are back to being white. 
He is eating, temp was 99. Could only stand about 5 minutes.

This evening his temp is 102. He drank well, ate some leaves, and stood maybe 5 minutes.

I am at a loss on what to do. He seems like he was before we did the transfusion.

Definitely beginning to think this is the end. Any ideas or input?


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## Retiredokjusttired (Jun 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry you are going through this and admire your commitment to caring for your animal. That is stressful. I'm pretty new to goats but not new to livestock. Can you pull blood and do a panel for goat diseases? Is there such a thing? 
If your buck has not given up and passed after all this maybe there is an underlying disease at hand.
We are dealing with a sick cow right now and have had blood pulled. If anything it narrows down your option.
Also, has anyone mentioned red cell since his eye lids are white? I have seen conflicting dosing advice on the boards. I did half an ounce to an ounce 3 days in a row then went to every other day, then tapered off from there. My doe showed improvement so I did the tapering method. Someone more knowledgeable with experience could give dosage info. 
Also have you considered any of the herbs that are known for combating worms. At this point ordering herbal wormer may be to late and a waste of money...I use minced garlic mixed with a small amount of sweet feed. Garlic is also EXCELLENT for the blood if you can get it in him. Off the top of my head Oregano oil addresses Virus's. Tea trea does bacterial issues. You could google natural wormers/remedies, idk...just thinking. Lastly if you think you have the Meeniga worm, google herbs that address that specific worm. If a human has dealt with it and used an herb it will be the same help for a goat. 
Until you know exactly what you are dealing with your hands are pretty much tied. That's when I start in on natural stuff. I feel it's safer as a whole and have had some success with it in the past.
Sure hope your guy pulls out of this.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

I'm kind of afraid to ask how things are....:?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope all is OK?


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## Goatmom1872 (Jun 25, 2019)

I am new to Goat Spot. I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping someone reads it and can help! Yesterday we wormed our Nigerian dwarf herd with ivermectin 1% orally. When I was worming one of our 2wk old bucklings(per vet orders due to worm overload in one of our does) the plunger slipped an he got 3 ml instead of .05! Now, 18 hours later he is acting drunk. Wobbly, unsteady, and falling down. We have brought him inside and put in a crate. I have charcoal on hand, but cant find much advice online for what to do in a case like this. Any suggestions?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Can you call the vet and ask about the overdose? To start, give him B complex. Take his temperature and see if anyone else replies by then.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

https://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2344&Itemid=2996

I found some information on it. There is no antidote just supportive care.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Goatmom1872 said:


> I am new to Goat Spot. I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping someone reads it and can help! Yesterday we wormed our Nigerian dwarf herd with ivermectin 1% orally. When I was worming one of our 2wk old bucklings(per vet orders due to worm overload in one of our does) the plunger slipped an he got 3 ml instead of .05! Now, 18 hours later he is acting drunk. Wobbly, unsteady, and falling down. We have brought him inside and put in a crate. I have charcoal on hand, but cant find much advice online for what to do in a case like this. Any suggestions?


Ivermectin has such a huge safety margin that there probably won't be much information available about toxicity online because it rarely happens. I think dosing the activated charcoal and calling the veterinarian is your best plan.

(He was supposed to get 0.5mL not 0.05 correct?)


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Good find @jschies


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