# Problem with LGD



## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

I have a 16 month old Great Pyrenees he is a male and was raised with goats.
He is very good with all the goats even with kids as young as a few days old.
The only problem I have with him is he cannot be in the pasture with a doe that is kidding.
He will run her off and take the kid over. He doesn’t hurt the kid at all he just won’t let the doe near it. He has already torn a couple of does ears keeping them away from the newborns.
Anyone know why he is doing this and what can be done? Is he just to young to know better? 
Thanks in advance.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is not good, if he has inflicted wounds.
It might not be correctable, as it went too far already.

Discipline should of been done when you first noticed the behavior, before damage was done. 

Maybe try a good shock collar, if the dog gets too close, zap him. You will have to supervise him at all times, if you cannot watch, separate the dog. He may or may not get better, but with supervision it might be possible with constant guidance and discipline when needed.


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## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

I caught and disciplined him the first time. I then moved him into a pasture with a buck and unbred does. Unfortunately one of the does was bred she just didn’t look it. He did the same thing with her. I saw her giving birth before he did and was walking down to her.
He saw her and ran her off with me running towards him yelling.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

That is a good dog you have there. i have a drop pen and a pairs pen just for that reason. is he good with the kids when they are a few days old? if he is that is just an adjustment you will have to make.


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## intrepid-dreamer (Jan 2, 2017)

Never trust a dog that actually attacks your livestock for any reason. I don't think there is any excusable reason for that. You will end up with a dead goat.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't agree a year ago he was a pup he is still learning he may not remember how things work all he remembers is getting charged by a goat and being scared to death. I would chase off a mean old goat too. Keep working with him he will catch on .


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## intrepid-dreamer (Jan 2, 2017)

So your saying that it is ok that he has actually torn up 2 of the does? On his first kidding season? Like I said, I do not think there is any excusable reason for that. If he is supposed to be a livestock guardian and is attacking the goats, then he is not being a good guardian. If you can not be out there 24/7 to monitor the dog and correct his behavior the instant he starts acting up, then the problem is just going to get worse.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

what i am saying that last year he was 4 months old with the herd he was in training. this is his second kidding season. he is remembering how mean the goats were to him last year and is thinking they are not going to be mean to my baby's.
again let me say you should have two groups one that has not kidded and one that has let him be with the has kidded group.
he may get it in time or he may not.
this may be a quirk you will have to deal with his entire life. 
I can guarantee one thing you will not loose any kids to predators with this dog.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Get a good shock collar with extra batteries. They only last about 10 days.


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## slackwater (Jul 24, 2015)

He's still a relatively young dog. I won't trust my 17-19mo LGDs during this kidding season.

If he's attacking the does, he likely believes he's protecting the babies. Not a bad instinct - just misguided.

Try to have him present - SUPERVISED - during kiddings this year. Show him how you want him to behave - sniff the babies and leave, or whatever.

Then next year, observe from a distance. If the same behavior presents, then don't trust him during kiddings in general. If not, then age and training showed him how to react appropriately.

Without a dog mentor, he may simply be confused or stressed with the sounds, smells and everything else associated with kidding. This is NOT unusual, but still should not be tolerated. More time and training is needed to see if he'll grow out of it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A very dangerous situation, shock collar, watch and when he even gets too close to the doe, zap him. 
When the doe is there and the dog violates her space, go towards him, standing tall and like a dominant dog would do, back him off that space. You want the dog to move away and lay down, a comfortable distance away. Say a stern "NO" and mean it, say it several times and back him off if he tries to come too close. 
Make him know his space. It will take constant supervision and discipline. Otherwise, if you do not, there will be loss. 

No dog has that right to abuse a goat because he or she as a pup was hit or chased. The goats then, were trying to teach him space, but this dog doesn't seem to respect that at all. Which is scary.


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## intrepid-dreamer (Jan 2, 2017)

Exactly Toth! If the dog is biting and attacking the does, they are not going to be caring for their kids, and you are going to have babies starving to death. Your goats are also going to be too scared of the dog to ever tolerate him.


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## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks for all the replies. I’ve decided to re-home him. He’s going to a large goat farm and will be in their buck pen.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I will take him where are you?


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## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

fivemoremiles said:


> I will take him where are you?


Tennessee. His new owners came and picked him up yesterday evening.


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## Treu Shutz (Feb 27, 2018)

That was wise choice. I was told to never trust or leave a LGD with a herd until they are 2 years old. Sweeping his problem under the rug saying just a year ago he was a puppy is not an excuse most dogs that age do not grow out of a problem like that by themselves it takes a ton of training and discipline and even then the problem might not go away or become worse. I train Rottweilers and shock collars are always 50/50 sometimes the dogs learn and will avoid the cause for them getting shocked others will silently hold a grudge and wait for the perfect chance to take out what they see as the cause of them getting shocked which in this case would be your goats. Him keeping the Does away from the kids is not a good sign he might be trying to protect them in his weird way but what happens when a doe decides to not back down right away or what happens if he starts to see you as an unintentional threat to the kids? There's way too many what ifs with this dog he's not stable enough for what you want.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think you have to do what works for you. There have been people who have worked with their dogs and others who have rehomed them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good decision, there was to much risk, in so many ways. 

Livestock guard pups take lot of guidance and discipline when needed, to detour bad behavior before it gets too far out of hand.

I am sorry that happened, but some livestock guardian pups or dogs, never learn. 
I had that happen once and had to make sure the new owners did not have livestock he would be with. 

Some just never learn, or are beyond being right around livestock, bad habits get started and if not nipped in the bud, only get worse, as they get away with it more and begin to chase, then draw blood. At that point, it is so hard to correct.

That was very bizarre behavior because the dog is suppose to guard all the goats, not mama's from their own kids. 
So don't feel it was all your fault, that dog to me was a bit off.

Was he a LGD breed or a mix of another breed type in there?


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## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

No he was a pure breed Great Pyrenees. His parents were both working dogs. He came from a farm the had around 300 goats and I think 7 Great Pyrenees.
He was possessive of his food but he only barked at the goats. He was also strangely possessive of hay bales. I would take square bales out to put in feeders and he would bark and run the goats away from the hay until it was inthe feeders then he was fine.
No amount of correcting him broke him from being possessive of his food or the hay.


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## Treu Shutz (Feb 27, 2018)

Wow GPs are usually great. Definitely sounds like something was wrong with him. That possessive behavior isn't normal and definitely shouldn't be a trait LGDs carry or have.


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## Amber89 (Feb 6, 2018)

My brother had one that was present when a kid was born and she did the same thing would not let the momma near it..we introduced ours to new kids like within a few hours and we uave never had a problem..now when we take the baby out of the pen for a while then put it back they go crazy sniffing and licking them but that's it lol or if we pen the baby up they do not like him being penned up


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## Mmc (Mar 7, 2018)

Amber89 said:


> My brother had one that was present when a kid was born and she did the same thing would not let the momma near it..we introduced ours to new kids like within a few hours and we uave never had a problem..now when we take the baby out of the pen for a while then put it back they go crazy sniffing and licking them but that's it lol or if we pen the baby up they do not like him being penned up


That was the whole point of getting a LGD so he could be with the does when they kid. I have the pregnant does separated but it's a pasture not a pen. I have too many to pen them. I have does dropping goats almost every day now some time several a day.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is sad how some dogs just don't make the cut, I am truly sorry.


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