# Unsure about what direction to take...



## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

I had started typing out this loooong post, my internet froze, and I lost it all!
So here's the Reader's Digest version lol...

We moved in to our current home 2.5 years ago. It's set up for goats. It has about 2.5-3 fenced acres (4 ft rectangular fencing), with more pasture available to fence in. The barn is nicely sectioned with auto waters and a brand new, insulated "kidding" area. The guy had told us that before he moved he seeded the pasture with alfalfa (I think) and a couple of other things. The pastures have been sitting for 4.5 years untouched by any animals.

We'd like to get into boer goats. We really need to supplement my dh's income and with me being a homeschooling mom, this looks like a viable option. I know that it would take 2-3 years before we would see any profit from it.

What I was thinking of doing (and if this is a bad idea, please lmk), is: starting with two does (preferably ones that had kidded before). Breed them with a buck (not sure who's buck, but there are boer ppl around here). If the babies are doelings, keep them for breeding, if not sell them as either 4h wethers, or to the local auction barn. Wash, rinse and repeat.

At some point, I was thinking that we'd get our own buck, but not for quite sometime. 

Is this plan something that could possibly be profitable? Would it be best to look for registered does (and buck when the time comes for breeding)?

We live in an area with a good ethnic population with-in 40 miles in two different areas too, so selling to different ethnic groups might work as well.

I'm not looking to get rich by any means, but a few hundreds extra dollars a month would allow my dh to get a lower paying job closer to home. He currently works 2.5 hrs. away and is gone all week b/c he can't find an adequate paying job in the immediate area.

I do really appreciate your thoughts and suggestions! Please be gentle, I'm a total newb!

OH! Also, we've thought about getting a dairy goat for milk and there is someone close by selling two Oberhasli does that have been bred to a boer billy. Would this be a good option? They're asking $150 each. Would I just sell the kids they have to the auction barn, since they'd be mixed? Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Livestock of any kind doesn't give you a constant amount of income month to month. It can be a great supplemental income. I'm not sure you will end up with the income you hope for. If you breed goats for the ethnic population, you need to be up on what they are looking for and breed for those specific times so that the goats are the appropriate age and weight when customers want them.

Starting out small is the best way to go. There is a huge learning curve so starting out with a large herd usually ends up with all kinds of problems and a lot of deaths. You probably won't see profit for more like 4-5 years and you will have to grow the herd. Costs are always more than you think. It is very important to buy healthy stock from a reputable breeder. Usually having registered stock will give you a better income but you also put more up front.

Buying the 2 Ob cross does is not a bad idea. You can always try to sell offspring as pets or the does as home milkers as well as sending them to auction. Having milk on hand is good and will be very good for your family.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

First Congrats on thinking about getting into goats. I'll try to answer your questions as completely as I can. I pretty much starting goat ranching for the same reason you are thinking about it. I started out raising Boers in 1997, switched to Pygmies and Nigerians in 2007 because we only have 2 acres and I could raise more minis than I could with the Boers thereby increasing my income.



mama2cntrykids said:


> It has about 2.5-3 fenced acres (4 ft rectangular fencing), with more pasture available to fence in.


 If it is the 4ft No Climn fence with small holes that should be fine. If has the large holes babies and sometimes adults will get their heads stuck in the fence. A good estimate of goats for Boer is 7 heads max per acre if there is enough browse/pasture. Minis I get 10-12 per acre.



> I know that it would take 2-3 years before we would see any profit from it. .... What I was thinking of doing (and if this is a bad idea, please lmk), is: starting with two does (preferably ones that had kidded before). Breed them with a buck (not sure who's buck, but there are boer ppl around here). If the babies are doelings, keep them for breeding, if not sell them as either 4h wethers, or to the local auction barn. Wash, rinse and repeat.....Is this plan something that could possibly be profitable? Would it be best to look for registered does (and buck when the time comes for breeding)? ....I'm not looking to get rich by any means, but a few hundreds extra dollars a month would allow my dh to get a lower paying job closer to home.


 Boers go into cycle year round every 18-21 days. They can have up to 4 kids at a time. Breeding for a January kids is best if going to sell 4h. I would start out buying quality registered goats to begin with. That way you can do the 4h, sale for show, and sale for meat. Start small to see how you like goat ranching. It's not for everyone. Two does already bred or breed them. Once you have decided this is what you want to do, I would invest in a great buck. He is the star of your show. It saves so much time, money, frustration, and eliminates alot of disease issues by having your own closed herd - meaning you don't have to bring your does somewhere to be bred or bring in other goats to your does. Less chance of contagions. 
Now for the money part. To get to where you are making sustainable income comes from breeding quality and quantity. Quality for a wider group of buyers; Quantity for more income. But unless your rotate breeding, you will not have monthly income per se. Let's say you buy two bred does and they have kids in March. They shouldn't be able to have more kids until 5 months after the first kids are weaned - a total of 8-9 months later. But if you rotate breeding, you can have one bred for let's say March delivery, another bred for September delivery and so on. Rotating allows for similar income but spaced out at your schedule and you're not rushing to check on all does at the same time. The more does you have the more spacing and thereby the more months of income.

I hope this helps, Good Luck and enjoy the adventure.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm not trying to be the bad apple here but honestly I don't see how anyone makes money from breeding any animals I'm happy if i break even. You will most likely retain so thats lost income, goats need feed, hay, supplements, deworming vaccinations and if you show any at all well that's costly too. I know boers may be dif and it may be dif if you don't show but I jsut don't see how anyone can make money by the time you buy all they need.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> I'm not trying to be the bad apple here but honestly I don't see how anyone makes money from breeding any animals I'm happy if i break even. You will most likely retain so thats lost income, goats need feed, hay, supplements, deworming vaccinations and if you show any at all well that's costly too. I know boers may be dif and it may be dif if you don't show but I jsut don't see how anyone can make money by the time you buy all they need.


Well jalyn, actually I know three people that do goats and only goats. One of them is sick 24-7 and going to the doctor a lot and still ha spending money. 
Which I know is crazy, I didn't believe it either but yeah, he does real good!


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

Money CAN be made with boer goats. Start out with two or three NICE registered does. The nicer the better. Breed to a well known buck or a buck with a good pedigree. That insures that you can sell kids for anywhere between $300-700. You can make good money selling buck kids opposed to wethers too, IF they show excellent breed character. If you have to think about wethering, then they aren't cut out to be a buck. We have 16 does and on average have 25 kids. Our does aren't reg, but we sell wethers for $250 a head.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

@ Hamiltonacres how old are your wethers when you sell them for 250$
I have a hard time selling them for half that at 6 months lol


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

We have dairy goats and not meat goats but this where we are with money. We sell all of our extra milk for $12/gallon. Right now we are feeding some orphaned babies so we barely have milk for us, that means no extra money right now. We have 4 milkers that have to have alfalfa at $18/bale (3-4 bales a week) and feed at about $45/week. When the babies are weaned we will be making between $200-$250 a month with milk but our costs are about $450 a month for upkeep if no goat gets sick. We can sell our 5 bucklings for around $200 a piece so that will help some. Point is, there will always be costs that you didn't think of. Something unexpected will probably happen and it may cost a lot of money. When we got into goats we thought that we would at least come close to breaking even, but we don't unless you count the milk we consume, which would be about $40 a week.
I would get the Oberhasli's, that's a good price. I don't know about selling them at the auction, though. Good to see another homeschooler on here.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

thomcarol said:


> We have dairy goats and not meat goats but this where we are with money. We sell all of our extra milk for $12/gallon. Right now we are feeding some orphaned babies so we barely have milk for us, that means no extra money right now. We have 4 milkers that have to have alfalfa at $18/bale (3-4 bales a week) and feed at about $45/week. When the babies are weaned we will be making between $200-$250 a month with milk but our costs are about $450 a month for upkeep if no goat gets sick. We can sell our 5 bucklings for around $200 a piece so that will help some. Point is, there will always be costs that you didn't think of. Something unexpected will probably happen and it may cost a lot of money. When we got into goats we thought that we would at least come close to breaking even, but we don't unless you count the milk we consume, which would be about $40 a week.
> I would get the Oberhasli's, that's a good price. I don't know about selling them at the auction, though. Good to see another homeschooler on here.


You said your feeding some babies.. 
What the lady in my neck of the woods does Is feeds them whole cows milk and keeps the goats milk for herself and she makes money with 10$/gallon and 20$/gallon worth of cheese..


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> Money CAN be made with boer goats. Start out with two or three NICE registered does. The nicer the better. Breed to a well known buck or a buck with a good pedigree. That insures that you can sell kids for anywhere between $300-700. You can make good money selling buck kids opposed to wethers too, IF they show excellent breed character. If you have to think about wethering, then they aren't cut out to be a buck. We have 16 does and on average have 25 kids. Our does aren't reg, but we sell wethers for $250 a head.


So, do the ppl who buy them at $250/head show them or ??? Just curious...I'm so green, it hurts.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

I also wanted to add that we'll hopefully have some income selling eggs and broiler chickens too.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

thomcarol said:


> We have dairy goats and not meat goats but this where we are with money. We sell all of our extra milk for $12/gallon. Right now we are feeding some orphaned babies so we barely have milk for us, that means no extra money right now. We have 4 milkers that have to have alfalfa at $18/bale (3-4 bales a week) and feed at about $45/week. When the babies are weaned we will be making between $200-$250 a month with milk but our costs are about $450 a month for upkeep if no goat gets sick. We can sell our 5 bucklings for around $200 a piece so that will help some. Point is, there will always be costs that you didn't think of. Something unexpected will probably happen and it may cost a lot of money. When we got into goats we thought that we would at least come close to breaking even, but we don't unless you count the milk we consume, which would be about $40 a week.
> *I would get the Oberhasli's, that's a good price.* I don't know about selling them at the auction, though. Good to see another homeschooler on here.


In answer to the bolded: I'm seriously considering one of them. I know goats should have a buddy, but right now, we can't swing the $300 plus the other stuff they'd need. Having the milk would help us a little financially though!


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Sorry this is going to be Loooooong - But I tried to be as honest as I can.

Yes, Start up costs are alot. But you said you already have a good barn with kidding stall, fenced pasture and more that can be fenced. That's most of your startup there already taken care of. If you stick with Boers, I'll be honest you can get 200+ per head. However and this is the thing - it all depends on where you are and who your clientele will be. In my area, Boers were not that great sellers unless for show or line butchering. There just wasn't that many individual people purchasing Boers. My costs always went over my profit.

I switched to Pygmies and Nigerians to fit the need around me. Do I make a profit, most definitely. Did I with the Boers - no. My clientele for both are the small hobbyist, small rancher, sometimes as backyard pets, some -very little- for show; for Pygmies in addition to above - for meat to mostly spanish and india especially around their holidays which I breed for; Nigerians - more for show and milk, milk, milk. 

I breed year round and keep none of my offspring. If I don't sell them by six months, they go to auction. I can't afford to have them taking up more time and money than needed. I love my goats and spend alot of time with them and the ones I keep are very well maintained and spoiled, but it is still a business. So how much is my cost - I guess it helps that I am a naturalist and a closed herd. I don't bring anything in to contaminate my herd and I only treat when needed for what is needed. 
Grain Feed - we buy TSC General Stock Sweet Feed at 9.00 a bag and we buy 3 bags per month. 
Browse - we pasture our goats so most of its free but we do seed with Rye in the winter - 50lb bag 25.00 again at TSC; we also add deer seed (various clovers and other browse) in the spring and fall - 5lb bag at 10.00 a bag
All Mineral blocks at TSC - year round buy one 2x a year 12.00 each
Cranberry Block at TSC - One a month Mar - Aug at 4.50 a block
Peanut Hay Bales - 20 a year at 3.50 a bale
Alfalfa Hay Bales - 10 per year at 17.50 per bale
Big Bale of Wheat/Rye Hay not Straw - one bale at start of winter 35.00
Water - we are on a well.
Cracked Corn at TSC - we only buy this really I don't why it's just a treat we use to get new goats to come to us so maybe one bag a year - 14.00
Probios Power - always keep on hand at TSC 9.00 but it lasts forever
B1 and B12 vitamins - always on hand I buy it on sale at the drugstore usually B1G1 for 3.00 a bottle
Molasses, corn syrup - always on hand price varies usually around 3.00
Wormer meds - at TSC Invemectin paste 5 tubes at 7.00 tube; Safeguard pellets - 5 bags at 10.00ea we rotate this out 2x a year.

That's all I keep stocked up on. Other stuff I buy as needed when needed. Now what do I make -
Pygmies range from $65.00 (pet or auction) to $350.00 registered.
Nigerians range from $100.00 (pet or auction) to 400.00 registered.
Milk at 7.00 gallon

So if I spend $800 per year on my basics. to break even I'd have to sell 8 goats per year at 100.00 ea. I can sell more than that easy. I breed year round with a three month span that I do not breed - every one gets a rest. But, I have built up a steady clientele that come back to purchase more every year. I built my clientele even before I had any goats to sell by talking to people finding out what they needed. I had people waiting to purchase before I got them. But it takes time and determination. It's not an overnight success and I'm not a big rancher. It's not something I could make a living at without my husband's income. But it is a supplement to our income and a good one. I'd say if you do the ground work now, and do it well, within a a year you can be making a profit and continue from there. But don't - DON'T - just jump in thinking it will all come out in the wash and you'll have people wanting to buy your goats. Don't overprice your head either - yeah it feels good to say I sold a goat for 300 but if that's the only goat you sell in a year what have you made. I undersold mine to begin with just to get the clientele started. Once they knew me, knew my grade(quality) I could sell for more and make the money. Service is also key. I think I am the only one around who offers a guarantee for my goats, and I'm always willing to offer advice FOC. So that makes a big difference too.

I also breed rabbits which go from 25.00 to 100.00 per head. Now there's a money maker. Cost vs Profit ratio - my rabbits win over goats any day. I used to sell chickens and eggs but hated the smell, germs, contagions, and mites it brought to the property so I nixed that. 

To make a profit you have to look at it as a business...start talking to people in your area to see what the need is whether it's meat, show goats, milk, etc. Then you'll know what breed is best suited to get to meet the needs of those you are going to sell to. Yeah you can choose a breed first like I did with the Boers, but if you want to make money at it, it comes down to what the customer wants and are willing to pay - not that cute goat you saw and really wanted.


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

If you were to buy only one of the goats I would think it would be terribly lonely. We got a doe two weeks ago that was used to being with her sister. Since she has been here she acts sad and lonely and cries at us when she sees us through the window and that's with 4 other adult does to keep her company. I think we would have already taken her back if she were the only goat here.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Only one goat is too lonely. They can be very noisy and they can get into a lot of trouble when they are alone. I would hold off getting any goats until you can afford to buy at least 2 goats.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

mjgh06 said:


> Sorry this is going to be Loooooong - But I tried to be as honest as I can.
> 
> Yes, Start up costs are alot. But you said you already have a good barn with kidding stall, fenced pasture and more that can be fenced. That's most of your startup there already taken care of. If you stick with Boers, I'll be honest you can get 200+ per head. However and this is the thing - it all depends on where you are and who your clientele will be. In my area, Boers were not that great sellers unless for show or line butchering. There just wasn't that many individual people purchasing Boers. My costs always went over my profit.
> 
> ...


Oh wow! Thank you so much for laying that all out there. I sincerely appreciate it.

I only have one question, how do I find goat people in my area that would be able to give me an idea of what niche there is to fill with selling goats? Would I call the local 4H? The county extension office? Or something else altogether?

Again, thank you. You have given me more info with your two posts than anyone else girl has given me.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Only one goat is too lonely. They can be very noisy and they can get into a lot of trouble when they are alone. I would hold off getting any goats until you can afford to buy at least 2 goats.


Yeah, you are right. I think at this point in time, we will have to wait.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

When I first started, I asked other breeders in the area how well their goats sold, I asked the 4H clubs, I went to local shows, I went to the national fair and asked everyone. Just started talking about their goats and experiences, you get people to open up and you learn alot, In my area we have a lot of stores run by hispanic and india people, so I asked them (I already knew goat meat was #1 with them). Really I just asked everyone. I guess I was so excited about getting goats, I would always strike up a conversation to talk about goats and then get their opinions. Oh, and auctions - I would go there to watch and talk. You learn a lot from country folk.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

mjgh06 said:


> When I first started, I asked other breeders in the area how well their goats sold, I asked the 4H clubs, I went to local shows, I went to the national fair and asked everyone. Just started talking about their goats and experiences, you get people to open up and you learn alot, In my area we have a lot of stores run by hispanic and india people, so I asked them (I already knew goat meat was #1 with them). Really I just asked everyone. I guess I was so excited about getting goats, I would always strike up a conversation to talk about goats and then get their opinions. Oh, and auctions - I would go there to watch and talk. You learn a lot from country folk.


Ok, great! There is a boer goat meat seller somewhere near me that I can possibly get a phone number to from a mutual friend. There is also a auction going on this Saturday that my dh was talking about bringing all of us to.

I know that when I was on-line last night, looking for pygmy goats, I wasn't finding any breeders in my area. Or anywhere even close to my area, for that matter. I don't know if that means there's no market for them around here OR if it means there could be a market, if someone started selling.

Like you said, I will have to talk, talk, talk and gather info to see what might sell the best in this area.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> Money CAN be made with boer goats. Start out with two or three NICE registered does. The nicer the better. Breed to a well known buck or a buck with a good pedigree. That insures that you can sell kids for anywhere between $300-700. You can make good money selling buck kids opposed to wethers too, IF they show excellent breed character. If you have to think about wethering, then they aren't cut out to be a buck. We have 16 does and on average have 25 kids. Our does aren't reg, but we sell wethers for $250 a head.


Holy cow, $250 for wethers? Is it like that in your area of the country or the stock you have? I know in this area wethers from good breeders don't top $150. I wouldn't mind boys born if the wethers were able to command that price. Plus then hubby wouldn't want to butcher as many wethers.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

mama2cntrykids said:


> Ok, great! There is a boer goat meat seller somewhere near me that I can possibly get a phone number to from a mutual friend. There is also a auction going on this Saturday that my dh was talking about bringing all of us to.
> A word of caution, if that is a regular auction with all different livestock, vs like a show auction be very careful! If you want to build a nice herd start with reputable breeders (which do attend the show type auctions as well). You don't want to start your venture with animals that aren't tested for CAE/ CL at the least. You may set yourself up for financial hardship with animals that have health problems some treatable, some not.


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## kiddoe (Oct 8, 2012)

Great thread! Thank you for posting, Mama2cntrykids and Mjgh06, wonderful imput.  I needed to hear this, myself!


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

mama2cntrykids said:


> Ok, great! There is a boer goat meat seller somewhere near me that I can possibly get a phone number to from a mutual friend. There is also a auction going on this Saturday that my dh was talking about bringing all of us to.


Go there to talk and to look - not to buy. Do not see a goat and say ohhh I want that and I can get it cheap. You have to learn a lot more about auctions and the people there before you buy from them. That's a whole other topic.



> I know that when I was on-line last night, looking for pygmy goats, I wasn't finding any breeders in my area. Or anywhere even close to my area, for that matter. I don't know if that means there's no market for them around here OR if it means there could be a market, if someone started selling.


That is what happened with me. No one and I mean No one was selling Pygmies or Nigerians in my area. Closest was about a 2 hour drive away. Once I found out that is what the people around me wanted and how far they had to go to get any which is why they didn't I knew the market was there.



> Like you said, I will have to talk, talk, talk and gather info to see what might sell the best in this area.


Good luck, you'll find once you start talking to people you'll get a better direction on where you want to go.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Holy cow, $250 for wethers? Is it like that in your area of the country or the stock you have? I know in this area wethers from good breeders don't top $150. I wouldn't mind boys born if the wethers were able to command that price. Plus then hubby wouldn't want to butcher as many wethers.


Our wethers are relatively cheap. We have the biggest county show in the state. My friend spent $300 on her wether last year and the grand wether cost $800. I've seen people sell wethers for $10,000. Dead serious. For market the kids sell for around $150 when taken to auction.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

OH I get you. People here who sell wethers to 4 h kids to raise for market get $150, the kids of course at fair get much more. I thought you were saying $250 from breeder to 4h kiddo.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> Our wethers are relatively cheap. We have the biggest county show in the state. My friend spent $300 on her wether last year and the grand wether cost $800. I've seen people sell wethers for $10,000. Dead serious. For market the kids sell for around $150 when taken to auction.


When you say auction, I imagine you mean sale barn auction? From what I have seen at the local auction barn website, 55-65 lb. kids usually get $170 or so.

Would I be able to sell for more with an ethnic group (possibly)?

Thanks!


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

for us the ethnic group pays about 100 for a 70-80# goat.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> for us the ethnic group pays about 100 for a 70-80# goat.


I sell 40 pound wethers for 80, 60 pound for 100 and 80 pound for 120. Some people disagree with the price but they are sold regardless I hardly keep them for very long before I am out and have never had to take any to auction


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

There are some people in my area that like young tender goat meat and they want them at a month old or less and they pay up to 60 dollars but I don't sell them that young it's 3 months or 40 pounds whichever comes first. I personally like goat meat at around 6 months old gives you enough meat and doesn't taste too goaty


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> OH I get you. People here who sell wethers to 4 h kids to raise for market get $150, the kids of course at fair get much more. I thought you were saying $250 from breeder to 4h kiddo.


No, I mean we sell them to the kids for $250. They then sell at auction $350+. My best friend sold her wether last year for $1000 at a 4H auction, and she payed $175 for him.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

mama2cntrykids said:


> When you say auction, I imagine you mean sale barn auction? From what I have seen at the local auction barn website, 55-65 lb. kids usually get $170 or so.
> 
> Would I be able to sell for more with an ethnic group (possibly)?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, sale barn. They sell from $100-$200 at auction. We used to sell to Nigerians for $175 per goat. They are no longer welcome at our farm though, because they butchered over $5000 worth of sale barn goats and didn't pay.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> No, I mean we sell them to the kids for $250. They then sell at auction $350+. My best friend sold her wether last year for $1000 at a 4H auction, and she payed $175 for him.


Wow! I'd love to live in your area.


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## mama2cntrykids (Jan 1, 2013)

HamiltonAcresBoers said:


> Yes, sale barn. They sell from $100-$200 at auction. We used to sell to Nigerians for $175 per goat. They are no longer welcome at our farm though, because they butchered over $5000 worth of sale barn goats and didn't pay.


Oh wow! I don't blame you at all.


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