# Help Needed. Placenta hanging out



## katie

Please help. Our goats placenta is hanging out it's been 24 hours and she's acting really sick. Please what should we do. the vet couldn't come out tonight


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## tgmommy

I am guessing you have seen a vet by now. I had a similar issue last week with a young doe. She passed a couple of fluid sacs and then had sacs that hung for hours. We got her to a vet and she wasn't dialating. Calcium and other meds didn't work. Ended in a C section. I hope your goat is ok!


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## happybleats

Im assuming she kidded already and have the afterbirth still attached...she may need oxi to help push that out if she is still dilated....I would get her on antibiotics now ...when my doe couldn't deliver her last placenta..my vet instructed me to tug ever so gently...he said not to pull it out..but some times a gentle tug is all that is needed for her to get it out...that did not work so I gave her 2 cc oxci...it took a few hours but she delivered it....it was smelly...we had already begun penicillin...she is fine now... I hope your vet was able to get out there and help you....my thoughts and prayers are with you and her


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## SCRMG

How many kids did she have? Are you sure they all made it out? Without going into details... I was just over at a farm, and pulled a kid, on the way out, the owner asked me to check a doe who wasn't moving much. The reason he gave for checking was that the placenta was still hanging out at least a day later (could have been longer knowing this guy), and she'd only had a single. Sure enough, there was a stuck kid in there, trying to come out all four feet first. I got the kid out, and she went to work on the placenta.


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## keren

i posted in your other thread. i would say you need a vet or experienced goat person on board. i too would be suspicious there is a retained kid. you need to go in and check asap and remove it if he is still dilated. bit late for oxytocin now, high doses of antibiotics to prevent infection. you can tie a wet dishcloth to the placenta to help it out after you have checked.for.more kids.


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## mjs500doo

Lube up, go in. She should still be dilated enough to finish passing her afterbirth. You may have to go in and rub the connective tissues gently to loosen them. Start her on antibiotics (penicillin 6cc). It's never too late to use oxytocin. You can give her 2cc to clean out or use lutalyse in the same manner (2cc). 

You may also consider giving her calcium. 30cc. (15cc in each hind leg) 


Once she gets going, dose up 1cc per 40# Bo-Se, and give her some probiotics. Offer her warm molasses water as often as you can for energy. Let us know how she's doing!


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## keren

sorry mjs but i have to disagree. i would never encourage someone who is not cery experienced to try to manually.remove placenta. 

while i have used oxytocin after 24 hrs in the past, it is crucial that the uterus is empty or the cervix dilated. if you give oxytocin when there is a kid retained and yhe cervix closed, the uterus can rupture. if there is no kid then yes you can give oxytocin whenever. i actually give it for cases of mastitis.


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## katie

she did already kid. She had one kid. We aren't sure they're all out. We just are hoping. we think that if she hasn't delivered the afterbirth we are going to call out a vet. Was the kid alive? well we are hoping she passed it in the night.


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## kelebek

Stand behind her, facing same way as her, wrap hands around belly and interlock fingers right in front of udder. Gently pull up and "dropp" without taking hands off belly. If another kid it will feel like a bowling ball in there.

If nothing - you can take a wet dishtowel, washers, what ever you have with a bit of weight and tie to placenta hanging out. Most of the time that's all that's needed  good luck'


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## mjs500doo

keren said:


> sorry mjs but i have to disagree. i would never encourage someone who is not cery experienced to try to manually.remove placenta.
> 
> while i have used oxytocin after 24 hrs in the past, it is crucial that the uterus is empty or the cervix dilated. if you give oxytocin when there is a kid retained and yhe cervix closed, the uterus can rupture. if there is no kid then yes you can give oxytocin whenever. i actually give it for cases of mastitis.


In being an AI technician, our company is broad spectrum. I carry the knowledge on breeding, parturition, as well as care after birthing, and preparation for the next lactation. The one thing you never want to do (in any animal) is pull on the afterbirth. You can try to pull, if it comes great, it should do so with no pressure. The rubbing quickens loosening of the tissues. Which is why i had instructed to go in the uterus and check. We use oxytocin very commonly, comfortably, and repetitively with no symptoms of a ruptured uterus, and after checking the uterus, regardless is there is a mummified baby, a baby just passing through, or the cervix is not fully dilated. It helps mom out. I would much rather give a hormone to help healthily expel an afterbirth that is actually labeled to either "assist with milk letdown or give for proper cleaning after parturition". We also have used both lutalyse and oxytocin, apart or together to induce or quicken the birthing. Not once have we ever had a bad experience. Oxytocin is also a healthy hormone that is short term in the blood stream, compared to other drugs.

Just my $0.02. I would never suggest something if I had no knowledge about it. As I carry the knowledge and do these types of things on a daily basis, it's not that complex. Our company strives for spreading the knowledge, and answering any owner's questions as humanly possible. We'll have to agree to disagree.


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## SCRMG

If she's a full grown doe, and getting really sick fast, I would really suspect there might be another kid blocking things. No, after 24 hours there really is no chance the kid is alive. Which complicates things because she's no longer lubed up, the kid is slightly bloated, and it's in a bad presentation. To get it out would require a lot of lube, and repositioning. I've pulled a lot of live kids, and that was nothing compared to pulling a dead one.

If you are squimish at all about "going in" to check, I would strongly recommend calling a vet. The vet can tell you if it is just retained placenta, or if there is a kid blocking things. The vet will have the experience to handle either one, and the meds to help the doe.

If you do decide to glove up and check, go slow. She should be closing up, but gentle, consistent pressure will help her open back up, and will stimulate new contractions. If there is a kid in there you will encounter something firm, feeling around the firm object you will be able the feel bones. If she does not have another kid, you will only feel squishy jello like goo. If there is a kid, there will be a foul oder, and possibly a green discharge.

Once again, if you are not very experienced, I would strongly recommend a vet. Whether or not it's a stuck kid, or a retained placenta, this situation can be complicated, and life threatening to your doe.

Good luck.


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## katie

How do I check. She isn't very dialated any more. The vet wants her on penisillun but that won't work if there's a kid. Please give me some instructions for checking. I've never really done it.


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## keren

katie wash your arms in a bucket of soapy water or antiseptic/disinfectant is better ifvyou havebit. also wash the does rear end off a bit. trim your fingernails and remove rings. 

if you have lubricant use that on your arm, if not soapy water. pinch your fingers together like making a duck bill with your hand. gently push into her vulva. have someone hold her still and be warned she will scream like you are killing her. if you are gentle you will not hurt her. 

insert your arm all the way in - if you cant get in she is more thab lilely closed. i think she should still be open though. move your hand around a lirtle. if all you feel is mush, string, goop that is afterbirth. now as mj and i have been arguing about some experienced people lile mj and many vets can manually separate the placenta and remove it, but ifbyou dont know what you are doing they can haemorrhage, which is why i dont remove a retained placenta, i just put them on antibiotics and never had any problems. now back to putting your hand in. if you feel something hard and solid - thats a kid. you want to get either the front feet and head, or the back feet. line the kid up into a delivery position and pull it out. yes it will lilely be dead. 

let us know how you go, good luck. again i wiuld strongly suggest getting that goat friend to ead on over to give you a hand. 

mj ... not that i want to continue derailing this thread i just wanted to say im not questioning your experience at all - i just dont think the OP has enough experience to remove a retained placenta.


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## SCRMG

Katie, Keren described the process pretty well. If you can get your hand in there, things will loosen up, just be patient and don't rush it. You will definetly need someone to hold her. If you feel a kid, feel around, and take your time finding body parts. The hooves, and mouth are normally the easiest for me to find. If you find a hoof, follow it up to the second joint. If it's pointed, you have a hind leg, if it's round, you have a front leg. Get two matching legs straightened out and pointed to the birth canal. If they are front legs, you will also need to find the head and get it between the legs. It's actually easier to get a breeched kid out, because the head will tend to want to flop back. Be prepared that this could be gruesome, one of the two I pulled yesterday came apart, and I literally had to hook my fingers in the eye socket to get the head clear. If you check, and find a kid, I would really recommend getting an experienced goat person or a vet out to pull it if you haven't done this before.

I agree with Keren, if you only find mushy afterbirth, do not try to pull it. You're better off treating her with the pennicillan than risking pulling the afterbirth.


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## katie

well the placenta came out. she is eating and drinking. she's been walking around a lot and has a temp of 102. She's acting like herself again so we are guessing that she does not have a retained kid.


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## katie

The vet couldn't come out and didn't want the goat in his office he just said to give her a penicillan. Thanks for all the great advise and good instructions. I really appreciate your support and tell you if it seems like anything else is going on.


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## keren

great news! i am so relieved. 

i would still suggest a rpund of antibiotics to prevent infextion since it was retaoned.


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## happybleats

While everyone is doing fine and happy...might spend some time looking for a new vet. He not wanting you to bring her in his office tells me hes not very interested in Goats..some vets just do not think highly of our babies and I for one would not want him to treat my goat..he just did not put his heart in her care and you were so worried..that alone should have given him pause..I am so happy she is doing well...I too would do the antibiotics..may Penicillin for five days..just to ward off any lurking germs..: ) Blessings


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## SCRMG

I'm so happy to hear she's doing better! That's great news!


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## goathiker

Yeah, that answer from the vet is sending red flags to me too. My main vet has a carport out the backdoor of his office with chainlink kennels for treating goats and sheep. My other treats them in the truck in the parking lot. Seems strange he couldn't walk out to your car to look at her.


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## nancy d

So glad she passed it on her own!


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## katie

we are too! I'm glad I don't have to go in.  But I'm also glad that she isn't sick at all and we didn't need to give her antibiotics.


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## katie

happybleats said:


> While everyone is doing fine and happy...might spend some time looking for a new vet. He not wanting you to bring her in his office tells me hes not very interested in Goats..some vets just do not think highly of our babies and I for one would not want him to treat my goat..he just did not put his heart in her care and you were so worried..that alone should have given him pause..I am so happy she is doing well...I too would do the antibiotics..may Penicillin for five days..just to ward off any lurking germs..: ) Blessings


The truth was that he was on a farm call that was going to take him awhile and he coudn't have her in.


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## katie

I don't know we are going to watch her but we don't really want to give atibiotics if it isn't needed. I'll have to talk to my mom.


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## katie

she's still bleeding a lot. is that a sign of a dead kid? or is it fine?


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## nancy d

Normal to have bloody discharge a few weeks.


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## happybleats

they bleed alot and for a time after....I would do the antibiotics since she retained it so long..: ) And I understand about your vet...I just want to be sure he is a good one to go to when you need him : )


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## ThreeHavens

I agree with antibiotics, even though I as well like to keep things natural  It's better to prevent her getting sick then take a chance IMO. For antibiotics last year, we used a cyanne (sp?) pepper and garlic drench. I'm not sure on the amounts, my mom did it (brillaint woman).


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## katie

thanks. She's not bleeding as much. I knew about the bleeding but she was bleeding more that our other goats. Is there any way to give B complex from just what we have? Should i crush it up and put it in her mouth? Or do I just wait until we have time to go to tractor supply?


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