# Sick pregnant goat!!



## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

So its been raining here all day so I didn't go out early this morning . I waited until rain slowed down enough to feed them. One of my pregnant pygmy does is obviously very sick. She's standing kind of hunched back, very watery and stinky diarrhea . And I believe I seen blood tinted urine or either poop she did both at the same time so I can't be positive . She looks like she's lost a ton of weight over night and her eyes look sunk in. Standing away from the herd and also won't eat ????


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Sound like coccidia or pregnancy toxemia or something else???


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## Aslea (Oct 20, 2013)

It does sound like coccidia. I have had this multiple times and what I use when my goats get it is Di-Methox (or Sulfadimethoxine). But I just go by Di-Methox Soluble Powder, of which I use as follows:

Soluble Powder mixed as follows: dissolve one package (107 gms) in three cups of water. Keep refrigerated. Administer/Drench directly into mouth
Dose:

Give Orally - Administer straight into the mouth using a syringe (remove the needle). 

Five day treatment- you must treat the full five days. (we have begun experimenting with only treating three days for the prevention treatment.)
Day one: 1 ml per 5 pounds- given orally.
Days 2-5: 1 ml per 10 pounds- given orally.


And I don't know if this would be safe for a pregnant doe, but if my goat that was sick didn't start seeming better within 3 hours or so (or started getting substantially worse within the next hour) I'd add a second of the first day dosage. And we also had to give another third to her once, because she still wasn't getting better, but I wouldn't recommend that (unless otherwise stated here).

But you need to get to her soon. Also, I'd separate her from the herd and isolate her in a dry spot IF possible. I always do this so that the heavy amount of coccidia isn't spread to everyone else (it is precaution to me)

Please keep me updated. I feel for anyone who's animal is going through this. Deeply. Good luck.

EDIT: Just to make sure you know, because I didn't at one point, a 1 mL is the same as 1cc


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What color is her poop?? Dark brown to black is usually worm issue , green tint could be dietary...you say its been raining, could be she ate too much wet graze..upsets her rumen...
take her temp...10.5-103.5 is normal range...
check for anemia

Give her cd antitoxin ...Pepto to help sooth her tummy and dry her runs, probios to help restore flora, electrolytes to encourage drinking, hay/alfalfa and green leaves only until she berries up...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I have toltrazuril for coccidia and I just gave her some of that. She has sued down since I posted and won't get up unless I make her which is not her usual behavior. She's normally skittish but just lays there and doesn't try to get away. Also usually I can feel the baby move. I can easily feel the kid but can't get it to move at all. I'm worried that it has died. She's due sometime this


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

do you have cd antitoxin??


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> What color is her poop?? Dark brown to black is usually worm issue , green tint could be dietary...you say its been raining, could be she ate too much wet graze..upsets her rumen...
> take her temp...10.5-103.5 is normal range...
> check for anemia
> 
> Give her cd antitoxin ...Pepto to help sooth her tummy and dry her runs, probios to help restore flora, electrolytes to encourage drinking, hay/alfalfa and green leaves only until she berries up...


Poop was dark brown and runny like water and smelled terrible. My goats don't leave the barn when it rains at all by their choice so i dont think its from wet graze . I'll go get a temp


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> do you have cd antitoxin??


No I don't have cd antitoxin. Was planning to order some when I order wormers next week  I have tried to find some to have on hand but everybody tries to sell me cd&t.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Smelly dark poop could very well be cocci..the baycox should help but she still needs the cd antitoxin.pepto,probios and electrolytes...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can use Milk of magnesia instead of the cd antitoxin ...15 cc per 60#..Dark smelly stool can also be enterotoxemia...it wont get her dry but it will help bind the toxin inher gut..this is most important...keep her hydrated through this


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

cocci and worms are very opportunistic.....they like to invade when a goat is not feeling well!...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Her temp is 104.4


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I have dumor electrolytes supplement powder how much do I need to give her how often?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It a bit elevated...OTC Antibiotics of choice Tylan 200 1 cc per 25# every 12 hours for 5-7 days..Nuflor is a good RX antibiotic and safe for pregnant does..

start the MOM right away...along with the Probios and electrolytes


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Fix a gallon of the electrolytes and keep if fresh daily..also offer fresh water in case she rather than it...here is a home made electrolyte as well

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what ever molasses or honey you have on hand 
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> It a bit elevated...OTC Antibiotics of choice Tylan 200 1 cc per 25# every 12 hours for 5-7 days..Nuflor is a good RX antibiotic and safe for pregnant does..
> 
> start the MOM right away...along with the Probios and electrolytes


I have the tylan an mom and will give her that now


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I've had her for a couple months .the lady told me that she had been wormed with herbal wormer so I haven't wormed her yet. Should I go ahead and worm her also? Lids are light pink


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Unless she is a 4-5 on the famancha chart I would get her through this first so not to taxed her system...Then once she is on the mend I would worm her with Ivomec plus..Other wise yes..treat now...a 4-5 on the chart is dangerous..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.UnQulZRxte4


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Unless she is a 4-5 on the famancha chart I would get her through this first so not to taxed her system...Then once she is on the mend I would worm her with Ivomec plus..Other wise yes..treat now...a 4-5 on the chart is dangerous..
> http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.UnQulZRxte4


She's like a 4. I don't have ivomec plus. I have ivomec and safeguard . Also have red cell for anemia. When I went out to give the MOM and tylan she was grinding her teeth a little and still laying


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..a 4 warrants worming...use the ivomec..safeguard doesnt work well any more..
if this is injectable 1 cc per 40 sub Q or if you prefere oral, I believe the dose is 1 cc per 30 #...

Grinding teeth is gut pain..the MOM should help..it takes time...keep her comfortable and hydrated
Red cell is 6 cc per 100# 
vit B 12 shot ot B complex PLUS...
poor girl is going to feel like a dumping ground for meds  But what ever needs to be done....

keep electros and hay where she can get to them without getting up for now..green leaves as well


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

She won't drink any electros on her own so I'll just syringe it into her. How much should I make her take?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can not drench enough to keep her hydrtated with out stressing her out too much but gettingher started might help encourage her to drink on her own....I would start with 30-40 cc every 10 -15 minutes 

If she wont drink on her own at all..try a different electroy, gateraid or just molasses water..


MOM should be given every 4-6 hours...Tylan 200 every 12..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Kool Aid water will work sometimes as well, they love it just 1/4 cup of sweetened kool Aid powder in 1 gallon of warm water.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Ok I gave her a shot of tylan 200, MOM, baycox(toltrazuril), red cell and made her drink some electros. I checked her lids again compared to the chart she's actually about a 3 I think so I'm gonna wait to worm her tomorrow if she gets better. She got up on her own when I went out this time.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good job...: ) 

when you go out there again, give a bit of probios too...it will help her restor balance in the gut....


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## fezz09 (Oct 30, 2012)

K I'm not nearly as experienced as these people and I am aware this wont solve your problem, but IF she pulls through this and picks up you could keep baking soda out for her. I know this wont help with a parasite problem, however there has been a couple of times that my girls had a "belly ache" and the BS helps them to calm their stomach(kinda like tums)! I hope she is a fighter and pulls through for you!! Oh and I am also a big fan of pepto for trying to thicken up the runs!! Good luck


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

fezz09 said:


> K I'm not nearly as experienced as these people and I am aware this wont solve your problem, but IF she pulls through this and picks up you could keep baking soda out for her. I know this wont help with a parasite problem, however there has been a couple of times that my girls had a "belly ache" and the BS helps them to calm their stomach(kinda like tums)! I hope she is a fighter and pulls through for you!! Oh and I am also a big fan of pepto for trying to thicken up the runs!! Good luck


I keep free choice minerals and baking soda out for them at all times


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

She is now drinking a good amount of water on her own. Poop is still close to water like but is a lighter brown yellowish color now.and up walking around some.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Good, the MOM is working. She will stay a bit runny until the toxins are gone.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't have any pepto I do have kaopectate . Should I give some of that? If so how much ? She weighs about 60 lbs


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great news Erica!! Keep up the good work...as long as she keeps hydrated the runs wont bring her down...binding the toxins is much more important right now..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

No need....you dont want to use both...just let the runs run its course...its flushing the toxins...: )


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> No need....you dont want to use both...just let the runs run its course...its flushing the toxins...: )


Should I give another dose of MOM later tonight?


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

She is up and has decided to nibble on a little hay and I felt the baby move  hoping she will get better


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## fezz09 (Oct 30, 2012)

Glad to hear she is coming around!!  I hate it when pets get sick!! It's really scary!


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Yea it's really upsetting and discouraging when ya try so hard to take the best care possible of them and things still happen or gets sick


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Keep up the MOM every 4-6 hours...see how she is doing tomorrow

So happy to hear she is eating a bit!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I've been following this thread, no sound advice, but prayers sent for her recovery!!


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks  I just checked on her and gave another dose of MOM. She was laying down in the corner but got up and walked around the pen and pooped some more. I'm gonna let her rest without me bothering her anymore tonight im sure shes tired of me giving her meds and poking a thermometer in her butt. i will check on her in the morning and give an update. Thanks for all the help happybleats


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Thank goodness. I'm so glad she's recovering. How absolutely terrifying.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good idea...she has all she needs right now...rest is whats left...good job Erica..glad she is more active : ) 

Your welcome!!! I just went through all this when my girls broke into the barn and ate themselves silly...I almost lost one but got them all though it Thank GOD!! Its scary and make for long nights : ) best wishes..


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I went over to check on her not really knowing what to expect. She was up looking through the fence at me. On further inspection....her ligaments are completely gone and vaginal area is open. But udder isn't very big at all. I wasn't expecting her to have the baby for another few weeks but I don't have a due date from previous owner so I'm a little confused. If she was losing the baby would there be blood or anything this late in pregnancy?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The stress of her illness may have brought on early labor or its just her time...some goats dont fill up until 30 minutes before baby comes...keep a close watch on her ..if she is eating hay and chewing a cud this moring then no need to give more MOM...you can switch to pepto, if still off food she will need the MOM...continue her antibiotics.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> The stress of her illness may have brought on early labor or its just her time...some goats dont fill up until 30 minutes before baby comes...keep a close watch on her ..if she is eating hay and chewing a cud this moring then no need to give more MOM...you can switch to pepto, if still off food she will need the MOM...continue her antibiotics.


She's up but still but not chewing cud still a little teeth grinding no signs of giving birth other than ligaments gone at the moment.still has very bad diarrhea


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would keep up wioth the MOM then....keep offering her hay and green leaves..the sooner you can get her eating those the better...she will remain running until you are done with MOM...just be sure she is drinking : )


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I would keep up wioth the MOM then....keep offering her hay and green leaves..the sooner you can get her eating those the better...she will remain running until you are done with MOM...just be sure she is drinking : )


She's nibbling on hay a little and drinking water


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thats great...means the MOM is working...keep it up today every 6 hours since she is nibbling some...You are doing wonderful with her


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Should I worm her today or wait?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if she is still at a three on the famancha chart..I would wait anither day...so not to over taxed her system..but if she is now a 4 or worse..then yes worm...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> if she is still at a three on the famancha chart..I would wait anither day...so not to over taxed her system..but if she is now a 4 or worse..then yes worm...


I checked her again earlier and they are alot worse than yesterday so I went ahead and wormed her .


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good call...keep up with the red cell as well..


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Still not much progress . Mostly just laying down all day grinding teeth and pooping on her self. Nibbled tiny bit of hay and very little water. Won't eat any green leaves.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it can take a bit..the fact she is nibbling at all is a good sign...If you have B complex that would sure help increase her appitite and energy....be sure to dose the MOM at 15 cc per 60#


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> it can take a bit..the fact she is nibbling at all is a good sign...If you have B complex that would sure help increase her appitite and energy....be sure to dose the MOM at 15 cc per 60#


Yea she weighs 60 lbs so I've been giving her 15 cc's. I checked on her a few mins ago and noticed poop on the other side of the pen so she has obviously gotten up and moved around some


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Its frustrating,,I know...you just want her well...keep hay and fluids with in her reach...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Yea it is. I'm hoping she will go ahead and have the baby so alteast there's a chance that it will make it just incase she doesn't pull through this , whatever it is. I talked to the lady I got her from tonight.she said that she had to worm very often because she didnt have the space that I have and they were kept in a small pen. so im thinking its possible that she already had a high worm load.i didn't worm her when she came because I thought they had been done. I only worm every 4 months and have never had any trouble like this.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

She seems like a fighter and has got this far..I think she has a good chance ...the issue she is having now is def. rumen shut down...could be worm load started it or worm load because of it...its not uncommon for goats who go through stress like this to become over loaded with worms, they are very opportunistic...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

She is breathing very fast and hard. Ligaments are complete mush. I believe she is going to kid very very soon . But her udder is almost non existant .im worried that if she is able to kid that she won't be able to feed it or that I won't be able to get any colostrum out for the baby if she makes it through it. Ive never had a doe kid without a good sized udder so im stressed about it. and want to be prepared if the worst happens.think I have seen colostrum at tsc. Is that what I will need to get to give the baby if mom isn't able to feed it????


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Poor doe! Happybleats and Goathiker are giving you sound advice. I can call around in the morning and see if I can get some colostrum for you. I wish I had some on hand, but I didn't take any from Peg. If I can find it and you need it I'll run it out to you. :hug:


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

So I can't buy some at tractor supply or somewhere?


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

There is colostrum formula at TSC, but the real thing is always best if you can get it. 

The lady I bought my Minimancha from keeps a tested dairy herd, so she may have some. Her buck is too big for Peg, but he's covering my Holly-doe, so I keep in touch with her.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Ok. I'm hoping she just different and might be one of those does that won't have milk until she kids. This is something new to me that i haven't experienced yet. This whole sudden sickness like this with the sudden unexpected pregnancy i just came to realize a few days ago and no udder on top of that. Just worried and stressed over this whole ordeal at the moment


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

:hug: Sorry this is happening. Yer in good hands here and I'll do whatever I can to help.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Here's a link to another thread that talks about colostrum: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f217/homemade-colostrum-116778/


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How is your doe this morning? sounds like babies are near....sometimes there is colostrum in there enough for baby but dont look like much...I had a saan doe who freshened with what look liked a empty udder...but she had enough colostrumto feed her kids...then the milk came and we were milking her three times a day along with her nursing her kids lol


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> How is your doe this morning? sounds like babies are near....sometimes there is colostrum in there enough for baby but dont look like much...I had a saan doe who freshened with what look liked a empty udder...but she had enough colostrumto feed her kids...then the milk came and we were milking her three times a day along with her nursing her kids lol


I stayed up with her all night . Just hard fast breathing and muscle twitches. I have only had a few hours sleep since she got sick. And couldn't stay awake this morning about 9 I fell asleep when I woke up to check on her she is doing worse. She's having trouble to get up and has to have help and can only stand for a few seconds and not really holding her head up. Won't drink ANY water or electros and won't nibble hay anymore. I think she is going down hill now. I was really hoping she was gonna pull through since she made it this far but its not looking good for her at this point.  I feel terrible and wish I had wormed her when she came instead of taking the ladys word for it that she had recently been done if that's what caused her to be sick like this.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> It a bit elevated...OTC Antibiotics of choice Tylan 200 1 cc per 25# every 12 hours for 5-7 days..Nuflor is a good RX antibiotic and safe for pregnant does..
> start the MOM right away...along with the Probios and electrolytes


I'm not a vet, so I can't say you are wrong, but I would never give a goat with diarrhea, MOM. Milk of Magnesia is a laxative. I would give pink bismuth.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I'm not a vet, so I can't say you are wrong, but I would never give a goat with diarrhea, MOM. Milk of Magnesia is a laxative. I would give pink bismuth.
> __________________


yes MOM is a laxative but also binds toxins in the gut. When you dont have C D Antitioxin handy you need something..as long as the goat stays hydrated it should be fine... Once thegoat is eating then you treat the runs


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Erica you may be dealing with pregnacy Toxcemia on top of everything else...Mix mollasses and water and drentch her..if you have a calcium drench or tums give her some. on top of everything she is fighting...this will be a hard one..

check her temp..if its low you will need to warmher up...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> yes MOM is a laxative but also binds toxins in the gut. When you dont have C D Antitioxin handy you need something..as long as the goat stays hydrated it should be fine... Once thegoat is eating then you treat the runs


I would argue diarrhea resulting in dehydration is the bigger concern.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I would argue diarrhea resulting in dehydration is the bigger concern


I agree dehydration is serious, this is why keeping the goat hydrated is very important while using MOM...but with out binding toxins the goat can die...when a goats rumen has shut down, that is the bigger concern...

here is a quote from http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/enterotoxemiaaka.html


> Treatment includes immediate sub-cutaneous (SQ) injection of C&D Anti-toxin (not the toxoid but the ANTI-toxin), Milk of Magnesia to push the toxic feed out of the body, electrolytes orally or Lactated Ringers SQ to keep the goat hydrated, activated charcoal orally to bind up the toxins in the rumen and intestines, Banamine into the muscle (IM) for pain, and oral sulfa antibiotics to kill the bacterium. C&D anti-toxin is made for goats and has dosages on the label; follow dosage directions on the label and give every 12 hours until the goat is well. Dr. Mary Smith in GOAT MEDICINE states that there have been reports of possible allergic reactions to C&D anti-toxin in Saanen milk goats, so if you are raising that breed, have Benadryl and epinephrine on hand.
> 
> Milk of Magnesia should be dosed orally at 15 cc per 60 lbs bodyweight and given every four to six hours until the goat passes clumps of feces and then goes back to making normal pills.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Exactly. You don't even know if you are dealing with enterotoxemia. And even if we are, the goat is already pushing it out with diarrhea. Already has pushed it out. I thought most people were thinking coccidia... The biggest danger with a goat like this is dehydration and the cause of the dehydration is diarrhea. The goal is to stop the diarrhea (Pepto) and the cause of the diarrhea (ie.coccidia, other parasites, dietary) There are other people who swear Pepto kills colostridial bactiera. I can look that up if you want. Yes you have to replace the fluids/electrolytes with drenching and/or the goat drinking water, but I know from experience you can't effectively *hydrate* any animal if they are blowing liquid out the other end. 

Cathy, I know you to be of great help to many people on this forum, but I think you should reconsider this. Maybe even run it by the Tenn. meat goat lady. I think the MOM is specific for her entero treatment. She might not recommend it for every goat with diarrhea. Also, as she says on her website, she is not a vet.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

I went out to check on her and sit with her. She was sitting up on her own but was barely holding her head up. I just sit down with her and she just rolled over and passed away


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry you lost her.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks kslvagno, and thanks for all the help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry Erica...Im glad you were with her in the end..


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Awe, so sorry You've been through a lot already... You did everything you could, at least you were with at the end... Heartbreaking So sorry, I just can't imagine


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry. That is always so hard.


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Axykatt said:


> I'm so sorry. That is always so hard.


Thanks for offering to help


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## tandy28 (Jul 26, 2013)

Sorry for your loss....its hard I lost two nannies this year and a baby. You did everything you could do for her.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so sorry you lost her  You did what you could not knowing why she went ill, you covered all the bases with what was suggested and she left you knowing she was loved.


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## Justice-Kidds (May 2, 2013)

Sorry to hear she didn't make it. 

 it makes me sad, that's never an easy thing to deal with


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh noooo.    I am SO sorry. It just rips your heart right open. I wish I could help you in some way...


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## erica4481 (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks to every one for your kind words.


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## Aslea (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss. We all know this feeling. She is in a better place, not hurting and with everyone else who will love her. I wish you luck from now on. May she rest in peace.


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