# Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter?



## Guest

I am new here from Lexington Ne. and have been poking around and see that their are a lot of smaller dairy type producers. I was wondering if there is anyone with numbers of goats that are raised strictly for the processor.
I currently run 150 Does mostly Savannah and one Buck a Boer X Spanish producing 300 or more kids a year, one of my goats had 8 and raised 7 kids in one year and 4 the next she is called Quasi Goato she has had 18 kids in 5 years, only 3 Doe kids from her so far. 
I have found that the secret to multiples is in timing. They should be bred back in the first heat cycle after weaning and be in good shape. I wean at 60 to 90 days and do so according to the due date I want the next kids to be born and in groups of 50 so that my buck can cover them in a months time. I feed DDG during the winter months at the rate of 1/4 lb phpd for all Does not in late gestation, late gestation goats get 1/2 lb phpd and of course all the ground alfalfa they want and Cattle Grazers loose mineral with CTC.
We average 20 percent trips 2 percent quads and each year for the past 3 have had one that will have quints. Anything that has a single twice goes to town. No singles are kept for replacements. I also have 2 feed lots, one for buckling's one for doelings that feeder kids after weaning go into until they are 45-50lbs when they are sold. Both have access to rotating pastures in summer.
Genetics: My goal is to get to 500 Does in the next 2 years I will have completed 4 generations with my buck by then and they will be my own breed. Oh and yes I am in-breeding to accomplish this. I am currently on F2 and F3 kids.When I get to F4 kids my F2 bucks will replace my herd sire, creating F1 crosses again. Why am I doing this? For the same reasons other breeds were created, I need an animal for specific conditions and can't buy them.
This is my 6th year and I know I should have had some direction sooner but have threatened to sell out several times usually after bringing something home from the sale barn and having an outbreak of some kind.
Oh I could go on for days but don't know that anyone is interested so will shut up. Anyone?


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## Tenacross

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

That sounds like quite an operation you have going there.
I'd love to see some pictures of your herd.


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## boeredinoh

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

I am!
Where do you get your ddgs?
Do your quads/higher number births grow as well as your twins and trips?
It sounds like you breed for large numbers, is there anything else you are specifically trying to breed for? parasite resistance? mothering ability? for example


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## nancy d

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

I'd like to see pics too, What are ddgs?


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## Dani-1995

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

Thats pretty cool! I'd also like to see pics 

Nancy D, I believe DDG's are dried distillers grains.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

I could have sworn I answered all of your questions earlier this afternoon, but for some reason it never got posted, I don't have an hour right now and can't pull it from my history so will try again..........soon.
Today was so busy, hauled hogs to slaughter house before sun up, gave 4 new kids shots and tags, finished 36' of feed bunk, ground hay twice, checked on and doctored 2 feeder kids,trimmed feet and horn branded then turned out a Doe that was feeling under, tended to the 3 Does in the quarantine area. checked heavies several times, stupid golf cart has a flat so walked the 450' from house to barn several times, cleaned out kidding pens in barn and re-bedded, put out new straw in kidding lot, filled water tanks twice, getting ready for Wed into Thursday when the front comes through and of course it will be cold and windy and the kids will come then.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

In coming days I will get some pictures for you. Just came from the kidding lot and brought the newest trips inside, its cold and one of them was kind of lagging.
But on to your questions.
The trips and quad kids don't seem to grow much slower that the twins depending on the quality of rations available. I start the kids eating ddg when they are days old by feeding the mother from a low feed trough that the kids can reach into. As soon as I think 80% of the kids are eating some then I fill the little creep feeder for them and let them have free choice, I also mix in a little mineral salt at first and more when they get bigger to kind of regulate their intake, it is not uncommon for the kids ddg intake to be 50% of their diet. Also the kids are in a group pen with their mothers and the kid that is hungry will usually rob enough off another Doe to make up the difference.
After weaning the bucks are separated from Does and both are fed ddg in a creep feeder that I put feed into each day so I can monitor lb. phpd not to exceed 1 lb. phpd they also have , Aureomycin, daily intake of minerals and salt blended in. The bucks also have ammonium chloride added. 
The Dried Distillers I get from the corn ethanol plant 6 miles from my place, if you have access to ddg it is the most economical by far at $200 per ton.

DDGS Quick Facts

WHAT IS DDGS?
DDGS (Dried Distillers Grains with Solubles), a coproduct of the ethanol production process, is a high nutrient feed valued by the livestock industry. When ethanol plants make ethanol, they use only starch from corn and grain sorghum. The remaining nutrients - protein, fiber and oil - are the by-products used to create livestock feed called dried distillers grains with solubles.

A third of the grain that goes into ethanol production comes out as DDGS. Each bushel of grain used in the ethanol-making process produces 2.7 gallons of ethanol; 18 pounds of DDGS and 18 pounds of carbon dioxide.

DDGS Qualities:
--Rich in cereal and residual yeast proteins, energy, minerals and vitamins.
--Is an excellent digestible protein and energy source for beef cattle.
--Can comprise 20-30% of the ration DM.
--Can also be used in turkey and swine applications.
--Is a valuable feed for both feedlot and dairy cattle. In North America, over 80% of DDGS is used in ruminant diets. DDGS also is fed to poultry. Recent studies show excellent nutritional value of DDGS in swine diets, and its use is increasing in the pork industry.

Typical DDGS Analysis
Item DM (dry matter) As Feed
Dry Matter % 100 89
Crude Protein% 30.71 27.3
TDN (%) 77.83 69.19
NEL (mcal/cwt) 81.02 72.02
NEM (mcal/cwt) 87.88 75.46
NEG (mcal/cwt) 55.83 72.02
NFC (%) 18.06 16.05
ADF (%) 15.62 13.88
NDF (%) 33.25 29.56
Fat (%) 13.39 11.90
Calcium 0.06 0.05
Phosphorus(%) 0.94 0.83

On the breeding questions, yes there are several things that I look for when replacing or keeping replacement Does. And why I have the buck I do.
First let me tell you about my Buck Razzy #396. Razzy is a 4 year old 1/2 Boer 1/2 Spanish. He weighs about 200lbs. He is long and has great conformation. If their are any flaws in him it would be his feet which are red and need trimmed once every year, and he bloats on alfalfa, not bad but I have fed him Gass X strips more than once and thought he might die once, I called Gass X after that and thanked them and tried to talk them into making bloat blocks, really I just wanted a Tee shirt or something since I wasn't telling them anything they didn't already know.
The reason I bought him are many, he was the winner in a 120 day Buck test out of 90 bucks. He has the all the things I wanted to breed my Savannah Does to, Spanish for worm resistance, mothering ability, low maintenance, easy keeper.
Boer for the heavy muscling. 
I realize there are lots of Boer people out there, I am not one of them.
I started out with Boers and I still have a papered Doe out in herd.
In the kind of conditions my animals are exposed to, my Boers didn't hold up. I think there is a place for the Boer blood and I have captured all I want of it in my foundation stock
That is when I found the Savannah breed, and I feel that they are great animals. I especially like the hardiness of the kids, I don't care how cold it is I can count on that kid to find and start feeding within a few minutes if that, I swear they are born on their feet and hungry. Last winter I was surprised when a Doe had her twins in 17 degree weather and both were up and sucking, one cleaned off completely the other one still had slime on him hanging in icicles both froze their ears. 
What I m breeding for is the conditions.
Here in Nebraska along the Platte river it can be wet and humid in the summer and hot and dry at the same time. Parasites are the biggest problem we have with the barber pole worm being the worst. I don't care who you are here you will lose a goat in the summer to BP and there is nothing you can do to stop it once it has taken a good hold on a goat, you may kill the worm but the damage is done and the goat cannot recover. I have yet to lose a Savannah to BP. and seem to have some natural worm resistance. One producer in my area lost 300 out of 1000 Does to BP in one summer. A person in these woods had better run every animal through the wormer in late May or see the worm at work in the first hot days of summer.

Traits I look for in my Replacement Doe lings.
1. Conformation, length, width, weight ratio must add up broad chested long upright and straight.
Horns must curve straight back and not flair out, still working on this but 75% of my F2 kids now have these horns.
Feet is a big one, I do not want to trim feet more than once a year and preferable every 2. Hooves must be black preferably or red, no white feet.
In my experience white is the softest and grows the fastest. I trim hooves with a 4 inch grinder with a wire wheel attachment. Hand trimmers are to slow and hard on the hands, the wire wheel does a better faster job.
Udders, no more than 2 small teats and no fish teats. udders not too big round like a volley ball
Pigmentation, I am trying to retain the black skin horns and feet of the Savannah.

2.Maternal. It goes without saying that great mothers are all I keep. It is good to have Does you can count on to deliver, protect, feed, and keep alive there kids. Sometimes a Doe will kick extra kids off, once.
A Doe has to be fertile and singles don't pay the feed bill. I figure it takes 1 kid to pay for the upkeep of the Doe for a year, and that is with me baling my own hay. Therefore a Doe in my herd has to have twins at least.

3. Characteristics. In general my goats are approachable not wild and not in your pocket either. There are always stand outs and goats you never see until they are sick or with kids. I have had and still have a few PB Spanish Does but they are too wild and hard to get close to, I love their kids though even if they are a little wild too. I like the goats I have now, curious enough, they mind pretty well and come when called.
Still with me?


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

OK I get it,


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## StaceyRosado

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

all your posts have been approve -- you are a new member and as such all new members are under a forum "rule" where they have to have their posts approved for 25 posts then full posting privileges are automatically instated. Its how the forum is set up for all new members and its not just you.

I checked the Moderator Logs and there are no moderator disproved posts made by you. Something isn't going through on your end to have them come to us for approval Im sorry.

Keep posting and soon you will have full member status


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## newmama30+

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

First I want to say Welcome! Your not very far from us, we live in SW MN. I was wondering though how with feeding the ddg's that you don't have to trim the hoove's very often? We've bought a few does from the Auctions and always now when they've been fed ddg's bc of the very long quickly growing hoove's.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking out lou*

1-13 am Well,I don't know about the animals you bought but there are factors. If the goat has been over fed corn at some point and foundered its hooves will always grow fast no matter what. 
Because the starch is removed from the corn is all I can think of. And the color of the hooves makes a huge difference, white grows fast. 
I have noticed some longer hooves in the replacement doelings who have been on the fast track,fed 1lb phpd. they will go to the sale next week, white hooves. 
Look for Does that have black feet when you go to the auction and compare them to the others. 
Also I have had a lot of different breeds here and can tell you, from my experience that the Boer is the worst offender when it comes to having to trim their hooves. Such trough hogs the boss always has long hooves seems like.
The thing I like about DDG is that its cheaper than creep feed, its easy to handle and with a little molasses sprayed on the ground hay and sprinkled with ddg I can mix any additives I want pretty easy and they cannot kill themselves by eating a bellyful like with corn. Also I get 111 bushel of corn in ddg compared to 35 bushel of corn per ton whole., At 25% protein I don't need as much of it.
If you have not gone there go to Langston University and check out their Meat Goat Producers Course. In the Nutrition section you will find a ration calculator, compare the ration you feed to one containing DDG. 
All I know is that cost drives the wheel around here and I would have to feed 120 lbs a day, corn, I feed 54lbs a day DDG, less work, 2 buckets VS 4 and more trips to the elevator! No, corn is out. 
1-13pm I just came in for lunch, this morning I have been trimming hooves and horn branding the 4 Does in the barn. I couldn't believe the shape of 3 of the 4.
A 4year old goat we call Rabbit #95 and one of her 2 year old daughters #192 are in the barn at the same time. I barely touched either one of their hooves, level with just a little curling inward. Rabbit had never had her feet trimmed I'm sure and neither had #192. Rabbit is a Grey Savannah and her daughter is white both have black feet.
I also trimmed #165 a 2 year old which is a Boer X Savannah with Black hooves, hers needed a little more work but she also had not been trimmed in 2 years you could tell her back feet had grown long and broke off. And also #236 a 2 year old Boer X Savannah with white feet. They needed a lot more work since they grew longer but never broke off allowing her toes to get too long and bringing her down on her pasterns. Not as bad as I have seen but enough that since she isn't doing well as she should that I will take her to the sale next Saturday, not sure she is even bred and should be showing pretty good by now.
I think I have the Barber Pole worm working in my herd and ordered 100# of diatomaceous earth, got one Doe that I have been worming and not having much luck getting her straightened out so she will go to the sale while she still looks in fair condition, some of the others are starting to show signs too. That worm costs me lots of money and I have found that there is little you can do once an animal gets enough damage to the guts. The rumin must take a big hit and have lots of scar tissue.
And I'm fighting pink eye what with the warm sunny and windy conditions for this time of year the dirt just blows. 165 and 192 are in the barn for that, white eyes blind as bats. 165 had her kids a couple of days ago and 192 looks like she could have them anytime. Started them out with a shot of Teramycin last week end, no improvement, squirted fresh milk from 165 into both Does eyes this morning, that usually does it, gave them both a 6cc shot of Pen. It has been several years since I had a case of Pink eye.
Took pictures of some animals this morning but am unable to get this computer to down load them so will be going to Wall mart to burn them on a disk. Not today.
4:00 PM #192 had her kids 2 does, good looking kids were up in no time drinking.
Caught #90 and trimmed her feet, getting ready to move the Does with kids out of the kidding lot to the south feed lot where the replacement Doelings have been, They will join the main herd with the Buck for July kids, they are in superior condition and may be on the over conditioned side but they should stay healthy.
Doctored the last real sick feeder kid with the bighead parasite. I swear some people do not take care of their goats. I buy from several barns and one barn in particular has been putting out some pretty nasty bugs. This one starts out with the head swelling up, not just bottle jaw but the face. The only thing that touches it is Ivermec. That's the easy part. In a few days the warts come on like sore mouth only with roots, then they die and the swelling goes down, and then rots the flesh under the skin and stinks. I thought I would loose 2 of this last batch of 49, I wormed them when we brought them home with Synanthic white wormer, after the outbreak come a week later and I had to worm with Ivermec and now they are set back pretty good. Most had a hard time eating. This will still be visible for 60 days and they should have been ready by the 21st of Feb. I will still have some of them till end of March.
1-14 AM. Now what, 2 goats aborted last nite. Think Chlamydia, called my vet to confirm. Yup now I have to mix in CTC in the feed for 2 weeks. Just when I was about to move animals around. Everything has come to a standstill have to have the replacement Doelings on this feed for 3 days before putting them in with the buck. Then I can move the Does with their kids to the feed yard, by that time there should be a lot more of them.
Also talked to her about the pinkeye, thinks what I do that grinding hay with them so close is creating problems, nothing I can do about that.
So the days plans have changed, will work on getting the rest of my feed bunks done and go from there.
1-16 pm.
Long day had 7 Does kid today all good except the new trips, little weak, had to help them some getting dried off and mother doesn't have what seems like is has enough milk. Gave all 3 added Colostrum will go out in 2 hours to check animals and feed them again. Gave the Doe a 1cc shot of Oxytocin hopefully she drops some more milk. If the kids would have been stronger I would have grafted one of them onto a mother that only had one kid. The way it is I probably will take one of the kids to the sale on Saturday unless she gets more milk.
Changed rations today started using 2nd cut Alfalfa instead of 3rd little better hay and hopefully can get milk production up. Brought all heavies and mothers with kids up to 1lb phpd DDG. Adding CTC for every one and Duccox for the replacements for a few more days. Waited to feed the heavies until pm gave Aureomycin 450ppm, maybe they will hold those kids in a few days longer. 
I took an old 150 gal sprayer tank and cut a third off of it and stood it on end and hung a heat lamp in it. I left the 10" fill hole so the kids can climb in and keep warm and attached it to the barn. Most of the kids are in good shape but have a couple of them are on the small side. Weighed some kids, singles are averaging 9lbs twins 8lb and trips 7lbs each 
22 Does kidded 39 kids on the ground all live.
9 degrees tonite so will have to be up and down most of the nite.
Feeder kids are better looks like all will live.
1-19-12
It has been very busy here 30 does kidded 56 kids all alive doing good in the last 10 days, if I hadnt sold 13 last month they would have kidded too. I have a couple of first timers in the barn, as soon as they were put out they forgot they had kids and didn't want them after I brought them in so I have had them tied up so the kids can drink. They will go to the sale on Saturday.
Put the 2 chronic sick goats down yesterday, were never going to get better.
The Vet was here and told me to get them out of here.
All in all my herd looks good, there will be some 2 year old does that go to the sale. I had used a Savannah buck 2 years ago and he did me dirty. I have culled off several hermaphrodites and think I still have one. The others are not doing what I feel is good. Non productive. 
I am putting pics on the photo bucket so everyone can see what I have.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/albums/o523/Sideplaner/


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## Itchysmom

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

You have a lot of beautiful goats!


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## jaycee

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

Just was reading about your operation and the thing that struck me was 150 does and one buck... wow that Razzy is a busy boy but must be one satisfied buck haha!


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## Tenacross

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*



Itchysmom said:


> You have a lot of beautiful goats!


I agree. Healthy looking too. Thanks for coming through with the photos.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

Thank you.
Razzy is a great buck! He will have help this fall though as I plan to buy a Savanna Buck to create more Does. Razzy will go forward with his kids to create F2 and F3 kids. At any time I feel the desired direction is being lost I will retire him. I sold 10 does that were in this cycle, the 38 that I kept kidded with no problems in 17 days. 71 kids, I posted in the 2012 kidding tally. Nearly 50/50 Buck Doe ratio.
I have culled my herd down to 130 Does but have 37 new Doelings to take 20 of the best from to replace them. They should be ready to be bred in July.
The next cycle starts March 1, the yearlings May1 and July 1 to complete the first round of 2012. The second round will start October/November with the Does that just kidded in January.
I plan to bring my herd up to 500 does in 2 years with my base stock from Razzy.


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## Burns Branch Boers

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

wow what an operation!! LOL if my goats had to live up so some of your marching orders they would have to move on as well! LOL I think mine are spoiled anyhow 

I have only scanned this post but looks like there is LOTS of awesome information so I will come back through later today and read everything. I can only imagine such an operation--very cool!!

I, as well as the others, was amazed at the # of does your buck services--wow! LOL he must be a happy boy!  :greengrin:

Glad you are here, on our board :wave:


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

Well I cull pretty heavily, some at birth when I tag them, if their udders are bad I mark them to sell. There are good goats to be had so I don't mess with anything that costs me time or money.
The first 2 years I had some pretty pathetic goats, seemed like I was forever milking a blown teat or tying a Doe to the fence so her kids could suck. I don't put up with that anymore I don't have the time.
I do believe Razzy could bread 600 Does a year, he needs to he is getting fat.
Today was so busy sun up to past sun down. I moved all the Does and kids from the middle barn to the south barn, all but special needs kids and mothers, 2 with pink eye getting better but leaving them at middle barn with a mother I am grafting a kid onto, one of my trips got kicked off at the same time a first time Boer cross Doeling kidded with one kid. It is usually easier to graft a kid onto a first timer and I think she will be fine. I still have a 3 foot rope on her tied to the stall rail but might be able to take it off tomorrow already. 
3 years ago I had 35 does in the barn during a storm, kids everywhere, I got all kinds of them mixed up when I tagged and wound up with 7 Does on ropes I don't know if they had the right kids but the numbers were right. 
The others are a set of trips born Saturday and a Kalahari red Doe and her twins, the smaller one is tiny might have weighed 1.5 lb at birth she wants to dump the smaller one so I'm keeping an eye on her.
Eat breakfast work eat dinner go to bed, I have never worked so hard for so little money and not had a boss!


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Just talking. Got pi*

Jan 29 2012

Still have the goat in the barn that had evidence of aborting, she is eating and her bottle jaw has gone down.
Just came in from looking at all the animals and starting the tractor. Every animal is dirty they said the wind wouldn't blow today but it is.
The 61 kids I have,I sold 10 with 7 Does last Saturday, are looking good considering all the wind we have had the last several days. They are nibbling at the ddg and pellets but not as fast as I would like. The kids are eating a little hay and I can see it is going to be a challenge to keep them out of the feed bunks. The panels won't hold them either they can just walk right through, these are new panels and to keep the price the same as the old panels they took the spacing bigger and eliminated one or two cross wires, the wire is smaller now too.
Need to make more bunks too, the Does with kids barely have enough room to all eat and the bunk will only hold enough for one day. I think I need 2 ft per Doe instead of 1. I have 200' of bunks made and in use, need that much more again. It cost me 800 to make the first bunch. With another 100-150 kids on the way I'm trying to prioritize my time and still get everything done, chores alone take 3 hours of the day now.
Was going to give the kids another shot of C$D but got up too late and all the kids were running around already, will start giving them tomorrow.
10am Just finished grinding hay 1 bale. Topped off the bunks for the main herd 72 feet there. Fed the special needs group enough for a week, there are only 6 of them, 2 sets of trips and the twins that has the super tiny kid. And the two that had pink eye but are better now. 
Filled the bunks for the feeders enough for 4-5 days and fed them there morning ration of DDG and pellets.
Fed main herd DDG and pellets upped the ration by 25% again. 18 days till I could start kidding again. Pulling the buck for 40 days kind of gave me a break and time to get these first kids moved out, but wasn't planned after I got the super worm and sore mouth at the same time I felt I had to. Hopefully it will rain or snow before they come. This has been the weirdest winter I can remember and I have seen many. The 2 kids in the barn even have dirt clods around their eyes.
Spoke to several producers in Alabama and believe I have found a new herd sire a registered Savannah from the Schultz import of them in the 90's. His sire was in quarantine. I'm pretty excited by the prospect of running him on my BRR goats.
Anyway I took more pictures and here is the link.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/albums/o52 ... 29%202012/


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## Tenacross

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

Picture #45. I want that goat. From the first album you posted.

Dang, your buck is looking good too.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

Picture 45 first album is Quasi Goato! She will never be for sale and unfortunately she has only one Doe kid out of 18.
If I had a 200 of her my troubles would be over. She is 1/2 Devils River Spanish and 1/2 Boer and just a super goat she is the only goat I have had that had 5 live kids and raised 4 and they weaned just as big as the rest. She Had 4 kids the next time and trips 6 months later. I missed her first heat this time thinking she was already bred so she will no doubt have twins next month. 
Her and goat 95 and her kids have what we call pants on. That fur on her back legs they are the best goats I own


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## Tenacross

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*



Sideplaner said:


> Picture 45 first album is Quasi Goato! She will never be for sale and unfortunately she has only one Doe kid out of 18.
> If I had a 200 of her my troubles would be over. She is 1/2 Devils River Spanish and 1/2 Boer and just a super goat she is the only goat I have had that had 5 live kids and raised 4 and they weaned just as big as the rest. She Had 4 kids the next time and trips 6 months later. I missed her first heat this time thinking she was already bred so she will no doubt have twins next month.
> Her and goat 95 and her kids have what we call pants on. That fur on her back legs they are the best goats I own


I bet she'd produce some tremendous percentages bred to a Boer buck. I know that's not your thing.

http://s1146.photobucket.com/albums/o52 ... CT0047.jpg


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

She has been bred Boer before and the Doeling from her is one of them.
Looking at buying another 100-200 Boer x Savannah Doelings. going to make the call tomorrow Don't have a problem with Boers as long as they are X with something. Still haven't seen pictures of the Savanna buck I found in Arkansas.
What is up with all these high dollar Boer Does with 4 teats anyway. I cull for that and here these people are breeding for it! do they produce milk and support 4 kids?


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## nancy d

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

My 4 teated have always had enough to feed kids! More room at the table.
I for one am a fan of 4 working teats.
Only a couple of times have I had to supplemnt with quads on a 4 teater but once weaned they caught up with their siblings.
usbga is a proponent of the new American with ultra feminine long bodies & 1:1 but Im not raising giraffe necks here.
That Quasi Goato is one huge gal!


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

Quasi might weigh 120 but is one of my bigger goats
I really don't have many goats that will go over that. I have pretty much weeded out the big goats of 140-160lbs in favor of a smaller framed 100-120 lb goat.
After changing from a Boer herd to Cross herd I have cut my feed bill by 20%. Birth weights are unchanged as a whole with bucks averaging 8 and does 6lb at birth.
The exception was an 11lb and 9lb twin bucks and a 12 lb single doe.

So your saying that these 4 teated goats have 4 quarters to their bag like a cow? and each teat has milk and can you get mastitis in 1 quarter? 
And why would you want this feature on your goats? 
Boers are coming along conformation wise, but at the prices they are asking for them I wouldn't want them, Id just kill them off one by one. Bloating them on alfalfa or not worming them or something. My book is full of dead Boers. At least full bloods. I have kind of found a goat that works now and only killed 2 on alfalfa this year, compared to the average 8 annually. 
I don't take care of my goats well enough to have Boers. It is kind of survival of the fittest around here. 
I wish I had enough room for brush goats and just had to round them up once a year.


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## nancy d

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

Well Quasi sure looks bigger than 120!!
How come you favor the lighter weights? I realize less feed but there's more to that isnt there?

They dont have 4 quarters like cow. Like I sez, 4 working teats= more room at the table. No one has ever had mastitus here.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

She might be a little she is pretty short. for as many kids as she can carry.
Lots of reasons I kind of have gone smaller in weight, they take less room and I can accommodate more of them at the feed bunks. The bigger ones don't have any more kids or do better and I don't have goatzilla beating everyone up for the feed. It just kind of worked its self out as I culled the bigger aggressive goats off I wound up with a slightly smaller gentile goat. 
Savannas are a little smaller than Boers and more social so less fighting over feed and more getting along. 
Once I have my Doe herd where I want it with my Razzy buck and the BRR line I can then put a Boer buck on them to create an F1 hybrid for a fast growing kid that I can sell fast and get re-bred back to a Savannah Buck for replacement Does, every 8 months. Back and forth, money, replacements. With the F1 both ways. As I progress into the 3rd and 4th generations the BRR kids will take longer to mature, stalling out at the 5th generation. At this point Razzy retires and his Grandson picks up on the BRR These kids should then be 100% BRR. As time goes by you will see my whole herd transform and 
homogenize into a uniform breed of its own.
Oh and I just remembered there is one of Quasi Goato's kids in the replacements, one of Razzy's kids, really pretty multi colored with pants on. I will have to take a picture of her and the one that came from the Boer Buck too. Her buck kid grew fast but didn't have much length and white feet so I sold him for slaughter.


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## TheMixedBag

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

Just throwing my input in on the 4 teat thing-most people I know who favor them prefer clean working 2x2 teats, and will cull does with bad extras (blind teats, fish tails, etc.). The main reason is that a doe with 4 working teats can better accommodate trips and quads, and kids won't be fighting over just 2. Out doesn't mean extra milk, just more room for more kids. I know jack mauldin mentioned something about the higher teats being advantageous on a 4 teater because newborn kids instinctively reach higher for the teat and can therefore find out and start nursing wicket, but I have no personal experience with it, do I don't know how true out is.

Also, I absolutely love your operation! I'd love to have something similar one day (minus the grain, but thats just my preference)


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## Tenacross

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*



Sideplaner said:


> What is up with all these high dollar Boer Does with 4 teats anyway. I cull for that and here these people are breeding for it! do they produce milk and support 4 kids?


My current theory is this: The bigger problem is attachment. You don't want does with udders that drag the ground regardless of how many teats they have. I think it would be a little short sighted in a comercial operation to only keep does that are 1+1 teated. There are just too many experienced, successful, boer people, with does with more than two teats to chalk it all up to "silly show goat people". If the 4 teated does consistantly did a poor job of raising kids, they wouldn't have any.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

I spoke With Carl Langle from AR today and I asked him about the Boers. He said that the Boer started out with 4 teats the ones that came from Australia. The SA herd didn't have it. I don't know if that holds true today but he said that although they have 4 working teats that it doesn't mean their is equal amount of milk in each one.
I guess I will have to go to the State fair and see these animals up close.That still doesn't mean I want them. they are still Boer. 
On the grain, last year I decided not to feed DDG or grain at all, what a disaster. The kids were ok but then the milk production never got good. The kids started eating off the ground and not from a feeder and Cocci got me. Worms got me and I had losses like you wouldn't believe. Also I am already maintaining condition in the lactating Does for their next breeding which will be in 8 weeks when I wean. I should have these same Does that kid in Jan to kid again in Aug- Sept and a percentage of them should re breed again while lactating in Oct Nov. Dec. Those that don't breed will have the winter off. Those that do will stay in rotation. There is no way I could do that with out putting some effort into having my animals in top shape. If I kid my Does once a year it may be an option.
I feed more than I need to but I like to grow those kids in the mother too. I love to see 8 and 9lb kids and the bigger kids don't seem to have any problems delivering, as a matter of fact it is the smaller kids that don't fill the delivery chute that you have to pull. Usually with their head back.


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## TheMixedBag

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

I'm aiming for the grain-free route because there is no market for grassfed goat (plenty of demand, but everyone only wants to raise show goats), and with just the 3i have now I've seem a mauve improvement in health and a big decrease in fed costs, even feeding straight alfalfa. I doubt I could run a farm the size of yours and not feed grain, though. Mine aren'tquite for profit yet, though I'm hoping these new kikos will be the start of something profitable at least.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Got new pics 1-29*

When you say you want to be able to not feed grain and still have good profitable animals, you should look at the Spanish. They don't need anything from you just browse and water.
I had a couple of Kiko does but they didn't work out, the trouble with buying someone else's culls.


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## TheMixedBag

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Which Buck would you*

Someones got a spanish doe I'm looking st getting (and her half kiko daughter from this year). The ones I'm buying are the best ones I can afford since shes selling out to move out of state and doesn't want to pay for health papers on all of her goats. She said the spanish doe was comparable to the kikos, but she absolutely did not like the boers they bought.

unfortunately, spanish just dont exist out here. It was hard enough finding someone with kikos, and even harder to find someone who doesn't want $600+ for one.


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Which Buck would you*

I would think you could find Spanish in your area he is on the east side of Ok.
and I spoke to him sounds like a good enough guy and seems to me he wanted like 250-300ea these are to me the best Spanish type, more tame. They are also pretty big.

Oklahoma: Now taking orders for Spring 2012 kids! Also, Kensing/Weinheimer Spanish billies for sale. Please call Dylan Hall for prices and more info. 918-801-6108 cell; 918-253-6107 ranch.
(Posted January 2012)

Don't know this guy, Syfan are smaller by far compared to Kensing or Weinheimer

Oklahoma:8 Spanish does for sale (Syfan line) $175 each; 1 Kensing yearling buck for sale $200. Contact Michael at 580-320-1620 or email [email protected] Ada, Oklahoma
(Posted October 2011)
You can contact Leslie and she will post a want add for you free of charge.
http://www.spanishgoats.org/forsale.htm
And if you wanted Boer Cross or Savanna Cross kids fro way cheaper and you are willing to travel try this guy, 
http://www.petersonboergoats.com/
I am considering buying 100+ Doelings from him soon, Savanna Cross of course.
I have 2 Bradshaw Spanish I would sell you for 125 each and they are bred. They are black.
These are what they call "brush" goats, you won't get within 25 feet of them, head up and always looking around, these are the care free kind, water and browse. These are the kind that give 1 or 2 kids per kidding, no trips. I figure I will see what kind of kids I get from them. I bought them last fall and bred them to Razzy. I saw the kids that came off them Boer and wild.


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## Guest

This is the buck I have purchased from Carl Langle in Ar.
These pictures suck.


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## naturalgoats

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Which Buck would you*

Wow! you are running a truly impressive operation. Do you have people working for you or are you on your own? When I first read how many you are dealing with I was worried just because all the large goat operations I have seen haven't been good when it comes to hoof trimming etc... but yours! I was amazed at how wonderful they all look!!! I'm completely on the opposite side of of spectrum from you (2 pet wethers) and I am in awe of your organization, your goats, and their care.
M.


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## TheMixedBag

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Which Buck would you*

Thanks for the info! My main source of finding anything depends largely on what my phone can and can't do (no internet) so a lot of stuff can slip by. Once I get the pasture set up (and maybe the barn fixed...) I'll have to look into them. Right now everyone is still in my backyard, so not a whole lot of room for expansion yet, but once everything is sorted, it looks like I'll have plenty to chose from to build up my herd. Don't know that I want to deal with brush goats, though. One thing I love about my dairy goats is being able to do what I need and have a more port type animal. I doing want our expect super friendly meat goats, but I enjoy being able to handle them without a big chase and hassle


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## Guest

*Re: Genetics: Meat goats for slaughter? Which Buck would you*

Thanks, and I know what you mean Miranda, I have seen goats that no longer walk on their feet, I saw a Boer in the sale ring that was down on her hocks. It is not my style to have unproductive animals that can't get around, controlled diet as well as stock that do not have to be trimmed but every couple of years makes for animals that will walk to better feed instead of making due with what is in front of them. I sometimes have help working animals. My partner sometimes gives me a hand with worming etc. she works off the farm so I try to plan grinding hay when she is home for lunch, so she can open gates and keep me from running over goats.
And she is the night watch when kids are coming, since 90 percent of kids come during the day and esp. shortly after sun up I take over then. I check them at 10 or 11 and she catches the 3, 5, 7am checks and then looks at all the Does when she gets home so she knows which ones to look for at nite. I can usually tell which ones are within 6 hrs of delivery and try to have all the heavies in the lot. We just finished round one and are getting ready for round 2 which starts Feb 14th as the earliest possible day. I do have 2 that will kid tomorrow I think since the storm is coming and the barometer will change dropping kids.
I think if a person is set up for it it isn't too bad. Right now it takes 3 hours a day just doing chores and checking all the animals. Some things I can stream line but others I can't. Grinding hay has been a blessing and a curse, it saves me hay but costs me time and money. I think the benefits out weigh the liabilities but it still takes me 1-1 1/2 hrs every other day to feed them. This week I have ground hay every day since the bunks where the kids and Does are is too small.
Today I ground extra on the ground in the pasture in front of the pen and let them out. I saw that the kids were eating hay that was not so good in the pen off the ground, Coccidia in the making. And this approaching storm has them eating a lot, they won't be able to get out to eat in the blizzard and they know it. Tomorrow I have to get their barn storm ready and bring in bedding, I like for the Does to have a clean place to lay, keep them warm and keep their bags out of the crap, mastitis.
The thing is efficiency if you don't need it don't buy it. Make every leaf of every bale available to be eaten, not wasted. Keep the animals in the very best condition possible, not fat, this will save you money in unhealthy animals and keep the worms in check. The best insurance against problems is condition. 
Yes the brush goat is not for me either. 90% of my goats are not that hard to catch. The Buck and a Doe like to be scratched around their horns but that's about it for friendly, suits me I can't find time to scratch everyone. I can catch all of them except the brush goats as long as they don't suspect me catching them.


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## Guest

2-4-12
Well the storm has passed with needed moisture! I had let the feed bunks run low and empty in anticipation of wet and ruined hay. Got the loader tractor and pushed the 6 or 7 inches of snow out of the way as best I could. I got the grinder tractor and filled bunks till I went too far over and sunk in the pile of goat crap. Since my tires are crap I called my Cousin for a tow, he was unavailable but told me to take a log chain and go around my tires and through the spokes to make poor boy chains. 2 hours later I finished grinding hay.
Fed the bottle kid and checked on the Does with kids, they are growing fast, I sat out there for awhile and let the kids get used to me and scratched the growing horns for them.
It was a busy week getting ready for what the weatherman was saying was a big storm that fizzled out. 
Finished putting in a gate that I had dug the hole for so that now I can come in from 2 directions and don't have to go through animals to get to feed bunks anymore. 
Tomorrow I have to disassemble the temp shelter I put up around my creep feeder and dump the water out of the feeder since snow was melting and had the bottom full of water.
The Does in the barn have not kidded but sure look ready even if the next date is the 14th.
I have enjoyed sharing my experiences with you all and want to thank all that have read this thread and hope to meet you all at the Expo in the sky someday.
Since I am pretty sure few people are interested in what I do and etc I am going to let this thread die. 
Should anyone wish to contact me regarding my operation you can feel free to PM me. 
Wishing all good luck and good goats.


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## LatigoLiz

Wow, lots of great info you've shared! Much appreciated! We're just getting started, but aspire to make a small supplemental income and profit some day.


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## DrakesFarm

Im loving about hearing all this it gives me something to do. I want to know how far youve come with your goals,


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## bbellhbl

Wow.


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## DrakesFarm

Where did he say he was located?



I have Boer, Nigerians, and La manchas, have had, nubians, and kikos, hope to have more of all of them!


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