# what do I do with him?!?!



## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

I've only had goats since the first of July this year. I researched and read for nearly 2 years before I got them to try and make sure I understood how to care for them. I wanted fiber animals, and I love the Mohair from Angora goats, and they have a good reputation as far as being docile and "easy-to-keep". So I bought a 10'x10' steel shed and had it put up in their yard for sleeping in. I bought 3 Angora wethers and things were going really well, they were warming up to me and seemed content. Then we started finding the black one (Blackberry) in odd places outside their fenced yard. So we watched and found where he was getting out, fixed it. Then he found another flaw in the fence, and another. We finally got his fence in-escapeable about 2 weeks ago. then 3 days ago I went out and found this:








We really love this goat and don't want to rehome him, but as you can see, that huge canopener on his head can be pretty destructive. I have someone coming this weekend to try to fix the shed. But I need to figure out how to stop him doing this again. We've given him toys (a hoppity-hop ball, 3 steel patio chairs, plastic plant pots, trash barrels, stumps to climb and jump on, platforms, etc.) I can't tie him out, too many coyotes, stray dogs, and stupid people around for him to be safe.
HELP!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

How big is the total area you are keeping 3 goats in? They may need more room. You can try running electric inside your fence.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am thinking of @MadCatX and Clyde. Do you have any advice?
I found with my bucks they sometimes liked to use strawbales if I tied them upright in place. They would go crazy whacking the thing and it seemed to help get their crazies out.
Is this shed inside a barn? It is hard to tell. Maybe a wooden structure would hold up better, and less chance of him getting hurt.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

Their yard is about 50'x25'. I think we have the fence issue resolved, I just don't want him to keep tearing down that shed. It wasn't free and if I gotta keep paying someone to fix it....


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would be worried about him cutting himself on the metal. . not sure about the solution though.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

MadHouse said:


> I am thinking of @MadCatX and Clyde. Do you have any advice?
> I found with my bucks they sometimes liked to use strawbales if I tied them upright in place. They would go crazy whacking the thing and it seemed to help get their crazies out.
> Is this shed inside a barn? It is hard to tell. Maybe a wooden structure would hold up better, and less chance of him getting hurt.


The shed is outside next to my barn, it has a huge vinyl billboard covering it for shade. 
The straw bales sound like a great idea! we already have a couple bales of dusty hay we could use, the goats don't like Sudan or Oat hay.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Don't put in dusty hay - can cause upper respiratory issues.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> I would be worried about him cutting himself on the metal. . not sure about the solution though.


That's the first thing I thought of too! But I ran my hands all over the bare edges and they seem to be "rolled" so not sharp at all.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

tammyd57 said:


> The straw bales sound like a great idea! we already have a couple bales of dusty hay we could use, the goats don't like Sudan or Oat hay.


I hope it works for you! Mine went nuts on those, rubbing their horns like madmen.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

tammyd57 said:


> Their yard is about 50'x25'. I think we have the fence issue resolved, I just don't want him to keep tearing down that shed. It wasn't free and if I gotta keep paying someone to fix it....


That's not much play room for three goats. 
Goats love to hit things, rub on things and move around. Those metal sheds are pretty flimsy maybe once it's put back together you should build an inside support walls of 1 inch plywood and 2x4's. (Basically line the building) 
If They're bored they become destructive...
Good luck and welcome to TGS


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> Don't put in dusty hay - can cause upper respiratory issues.


It was good hay to begin with, but the goats won't eat it so it has sat for a few months gathering dust on top. But I think I live in the dust capitol of the world, so most hay is dusty here.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

tammyd57 said:


> It was good hay to begin with, but the goats won't eat it so it has sat for a few months gathering dust on top. But I think I live in the dust capitol of the world, so most hay is dusty here.


You can toss the bale around outside, away from the animals to get the dust off the outside of it.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Yeah, I have been there with Clyde, he has saw fit to destroy his barrel the fence posts and such. We came to the conclusion alot of his issue was being in a pen. Even with me walking him. We opened up more yard for him and it helped but he still rams things. Clyde is intact so we deal with alot of Buck issues. One thing we are doing is setting up for him is my old punching bag, going to set it up and let him ram it. We are doing it for entertainment value too, hes about 75lbs the bag is every bit of that so lol I want to see it knock him on his arse. 

I wouldn't get rid of him because of it, to me it sounds like he is attention hunting, or maybe bored. It sounds like you've ran the gauntlet on treats. I would also say Clyde loves strawberries, tortilla chips, and animal crackers, this usually calms him down. Again Ive spent ALOT of time with him ( he still loves my wife more) but he gets alot of human time. They really respond to that. Angora's aren't my strong suit...the only experience I have was on my friends farm, hey had a HUGE Angora named Blackout. He was all black..lol he picked my friend up on his horns and took him across the yard hahaha.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

GoofyGoat said:


> That's not much play room for three goats.
> Goats love to hit things, rub on things and move around. Those metal sheds are pretty flimsy maybe once it's put back together you should build an inside support walls of 1 inch plywood and 2x4's. (Basically line the building)
> If They're bored they become destructive...
> Good luck and welcome to TGS


Lining it with plywood sounds like an excellent idea. It would provide a lot more insulation for the shed too. It gets horribly hot here for 3-4 months in summer (110+). I had an exhaust fan with thermostat installed, but it still gets really hot in there.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

MadCatX said:


> Yeah, I have been there with Clyde, he has saw fit to destroy his barrel the fence posts and such. We came to the conclusion alot of his issue was being in a pen. Even with me walking him. We opened up more yard for him and it helped but he still rams things. Clyde is intact so we deal with alot of Buck issues. One thing we are doing is setting up for him is my old punching bag, going to set it up and let him ram it. We are doing it for entertainment value too, hes about 75lbs the bag is every bit of that so lol I want to see it knock him on his arse.
> 
> I wouldn't get rid of him because of it, to me it sounds like he is attention hunting, or maybe bored. It sounds like you've ran the gauntlet on treats. I would also say Clyde loves strawberries, tortilla chips, and animal crackers, this usually calms him down. Again Ive spent ALOT of time with him ( he still loves my wife more) but he gets alot of human time. They really respond to that. Angora's aren't my strong suit...the only experience I have was on my friends farm, hey had a HUGE Angora named Blackout. He was all black..lol he picked my friend up on his horns and took him across the yard hahaha.


Blackberry gets lots of human time, we go out and sit with them and give ear rubs and snacks every day. They like bananas, animal crackers, bread, and most any cookie. Blackberry tries to be the only goat when it comes to snacks. He was intact until he was almost 18 months old and then banded in mid-June this year, so he may still have more testosterone than he really needs, lol.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

We've considered making their yard bigger, we do have more than enough space, the fencing cost has slowed me down on that. Possibly by next Spring.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If possible, maybe add some more outside space...place a few tree stumps and old tires out for them to run and play on. They get bored they get destructive. I second adding plyboard walls.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

tammyd57 said:


> We've considered making their yard bigger, we do have more than enough space, the fencing cost has slowed me down on that. Possibly by next Spring.


I understand that totally, it took us forever to get the fence up. Yeah, with him being banded so late I imagine alot of his buck tendencys are there. But that said, I think over time that runs its course. Clyde loves for the wife to scratch his ears lol. Hes a total lush for her.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

There is a saying- if a fence will hold water, it Might hold a goat! They are masters at getting out, getting stuck, getting horns stuck, destroying things, etc. But they are so great we overlook the foibles..... sometimes...... :heehee:


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

Rubber tires set half in the ground can help a lot. They like to slam into them. We also used an old Rubbermaid water trough for the bucks as a shelter for awhile because they kept destroying everything else. They would beat the tar out of it ,play turtle, jumping up and down etc. We still use that trough but now it is in the big pen. My bucks outgrew it earlier this year. ( By a lot! LOL)


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I appreciate your time and research and money spent, I do. And I know you love and care about your goats. But what you are asking can't be done. Goats can't be happy in an area less than 1/32 of an acre. This is a browsing animal capable of covering acres upon acres while browsing/grazing for up to 15 hours a day. Their minds are meant to be busy and bodies moving all.the.time. 

I'd recommend rehoming the destructive wether to a home with more than an acre fenced and then expanding the area for your other two goats.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I recommend at least 500-1000sq for every two goats.

To clarify, (for miniature breeds, double for standards) start with 1000 and for every 1-2 goats added, an additional 500-1000 sq.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I recommend at least 500-1000sq for every two goats.


500 sf to live in 24/7 for 15 years? I have to disagree.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> 500 sf to live in 24/7 for 15 years? I have to disagree.


As a clarification, I am discussing miniature breeds ops2:.

I usually recommend a minimum space of 1000, with minis, with 500-1000 added for every 1-2 goats.

1/32nd of an acre is 1300 sq, so adjust this for miniature goats and we are on a more level playing field.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

So their yard is 1,000 sf now, and you guys are recommending I double that? or triple? (these goats aren't minis, but not big either)I can do that, it'll just take time to buy the fencing. 
I will somehow work this out so that I can keep all 3 of them.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

tammyd57 said:


> So their yard is 1,000 sf now, and you guys are recommending I double that? or triple? (these goats aren't minis, but not big either)I can do that, it'll just take time to buy the fencing.
> I will somehow work this out so that I can keep all 3 of them.


You can duct tape tennis balls or pool noodle to blackberry's horns so he's less apt to destroy things...
About the fencing problem, this might work...
An inexpensive way to give them more room and keep them secure at night is to use electric net fencing attached to your current fencing as a day and night pen.
Let me explain it better....
Keep your boys locked in their current pen at night but during the day leave the gate open to make a bigger pen by using the electric net fencing. It's so easy to set up and it's mobile so you can change it up so they have different areas to browse. Just make sure you get a good hot charger so they don't push through it. Also make sure it's properly grounded and you get a tester to check the zap level daily.
I use premier 1 fencing when I expand my day run for my boys.
Here's a link:
https://www.premier1supplies.com/goats/fencing.php?fence_id=135 
The charger I use is a Zareba 10 mile and it can charge three of the 100 foot fences with zap to spare.
(You can also find both on Amazon at lower prices than on the website)

Just make sure the first few times you turn them out, you stay near the plug so you can unplug it if they try to push through it or get stuck. I had one do this and I let him get zapped for a couple minutes before I pulled the plug...and now he respects the fence and stays about a foot away at all times.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

I am one who understands the slow fence game, money, time, ability, etc. I was going to ask, are you able to walk them? I would take him out on a leash and let him start like that. Give him treats and such, I truly think here the late clipping instilled alot of his buck instincts. He'll be fine though, expand as you can. 

Ive seen to suggestions here I am going to employ. 

The tire idea, my wife came up with that too, and we are going to do it too, from my understanding they love tires to hit. 

The rubbermaid idea is excellent Clyde had a plastic barrel, its a little small for him now but man did he ram that barrel, he destroyed a wooden structure to help get him off the groun and the rain..well he didnt like that so he destroyed it and stood on the destruction.. he learned quick when he had to get in the barrel on the ground about that, but he still didnt care. He destroyed it 2 more times before i was done, then he saw fit to destroy to small trees, and a post. This is all while treats and love and walks are given. Buck and goats are the best animals I have ever scene in getting out of places..I didnt believe it until Bonnie ran around our barn twice to get enough speed to pin ball off stuff to land on top of storage boxes over 6 ft high. Shes a runt pygmy lol.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Definitely need to at minimum double their space.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

MadHouse said:


> I am thinking of @MadCatX and Clyde. Do you have any advice?
> I found with "_my bucks they sometimes liked to use strawbales if I tied them upright in place_." They would go crazy whacking the thing and it seemed to help get their crazies out.
> Is this shed inside a barn? It is hard to tell. Maybe a wooden structure would hold up better, and less chance of him getting hurt.


The straw bale idea...Can you tell me more? Like what you used to tie it? I try to keep baling twine out of their reach so they don't eat it or tangle up in it, but I'm also leary of wire, in case they get caught by the horns in it. What I'm picturing is putting a t post on each side of the corner of the shed, stand the bale up and tie between the posts. He'd be able to ram the straw without can opening the shed.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

MadCatX said:


> I am one who understands the slow fence game, money, time, ability, etc. I was going to ask, are you able to walk them? I would take him out on a leash and let him start like that. Give him treats and such, I truly think here the late clipping instilled alot of his buck instincts. He'll be fine though, expand as you can.
> 
> Ive seen to suggestions here I am going to employ.
> 
> ...


I would love to be able to walk them! Maybe they'd enjoy trotting beside my mobility scooter. Hubby says I need to train them to tow me around in my wheelchair.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds to me you have the very best in mind for them. Getting some distractions out there for now while you work on larger fence idea is ideal. I like having a smaller night pen for them to rest in safely that opened to a larger day pen. Salty is correct. Goats spend most the day grazing and browsing..otherwise bordem over takes their senses lol. I am with you about using wire or rope to tie anything. Im a worry wart. Toss a few tree stumps in the pen for them to beat and climb on. Tree branches with leaves on make a nice eating distraction.
Tennis balls do work to keep the horns less destructive.

Best wishes


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

As for the standing up bales, I tie them in a corner, with baling twine very tight. Once they have worked on the bale for a while, the twine loosens, and you can tighten it again. They have not shown the tendency to eat baling twine.
My buck loves branches attached to the fence. They are great for him to rub/whack his horns on, then eat the bark that came off, then rub some more. He destroys small trees with a relish, so we give him pruned branches for his purposes. Anything dangling triggers the urge to rub his horns on, I just make sure there isn't a "catching" part.
As for the walk training I think maybe @elvis&oliver may have some advice, they have angora wethers too.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

tammyd57 said:


> I would love to be able to walk them! Maybe they'd enjoy trotting beside my mobility scooter. Hubby says I need to train them to tow me around in my wheelchair.


That would be awesome. LOL while we're joking around @ReNat has Martin "the Russian Battletank Goat" who pulls a cart and kids haha. I could even see a dog run working here. a strong cable between two trees with a strong connection. you'd have to watch for him getting tangled, but it would be a cheaper solution if you wanted to sit out side with him and get to know each other.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

I should point out, he (Clyde) is currently separated from Bonnie. He decided in his Goat wisdom to bust his head open and ran her all over so he gets a time out. Now, hes out there moaning and whaling because he was a fool. lol.


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## tammyd57 (Jun 28, 2018)

So many great ideas! Thank you all, you've been very helpful. I've been talking these ideas over with hubby and my handyman, to decide what might be best for our situation.
It looks like we'll be putting up hay bales on the corners of the goat shed, after it's put back together. Then adding a platform and plywood walls inside to strengthen it.
Over time I'll get Blackberry used to walking on a lead, and saving up for more fencing to give them all more room.
In the meantime, I guess I'll be putting tennis balls on Blackberry's handsome horns. I hope he doesn't feel too silly :haha:


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

LOL he will get the idea haha.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> I appreciate your time and research and money spent, I do. And I know you love and care about your goats. But what you are asking can't be done. Goats can't be happy in an area less than 1/32 of an acre. This is a browsing animal capable of covering acres upon acres while browsing/grazing for up to 15 hours a day. Their minds are meant to be busy and bodies moving all.the.time.
> 
> I'd recommend rehoming the destructive wether to a home with more than an acre fenced and then expanding the area for your other two goats.


I agree with saltylove. Since puting Gizmo and Destiny in a large enclosure they don't have a wish to impale us on their horns any more. They want to put their heads down and pick up leaves and sticks and the odd ocassional branch. Only at rest time do I see them lay on the rocks.
Good luck


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