# Miscarriage or Labor?!



## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Hi! Newbie goat lover here!! I have 3 does that we predict are due to kid in about 6 weeks (didn't mean for them all to kid around the same time but I've heard that's how it works in the goat world!). 2 are first timers. One of the first timers has been acting "off" this week. Earlier this week she would smell her pee and then curl up her lip. I've googled and gotten mixed reviews on what that could mean. Last night she was really talkative, but continued to eat. This morning she was EXTREMELY talkative and stayed on our heels as we were walking around. She had a brownish discharge come out (I will attach a picture), then after that all the discharge has been more clear. It is pretty liquid-y, not thick/sticky. She is crying a lot, but other than that acting normal. For a while she would not eat, but she is back eating again. She does not look dilated or puffy, has 0 milk production (she's a Nigerian so I would think she should have a lot). Worried that this could be a miscarriage? Or possible signs of labor? Any experienced people out there know what's happening?!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Does her discharge have an unpleasant odor?


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Are you sure shes bred? She could be in heat.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Goatzrule said:


> Are you sure shes bred? She could be in heat.


Oooo. You are so right. Her actions sound JUST like heat. But what about the discharge? I've not seen brown in my girls, have you?


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I havent seen brown in mine but heat affects every doe a little differently. Or it could be something I missed. 
Not saying that its heat but I would rule it out


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

It does have a smell. However pregnancy was confirmed via ultrasound back in the beginning of October. Here is her back end now. She is now panting also.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

My gut is saying miscarriage, but I've never had a goat have one yet. So I'm FAR from an expert. Normal birth fluids don't really have much of a smell. Do you have a vet or a nearby experienced goat mentor you can call?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

groovyoldlady said:


> My gut is saying miscarriage, but I've never had a goat have one yet. So I'm FAR from an expert. Normal birth fluids don't really have much of a smell. Do you have a vet or a nearby experienced goat mentor you can call?


Yes, we have a local extension agent coming tomorrow to do an ultrasound. And a vet on stand by.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Sounds like a miscarriage.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Or she absorbed early on and it is heat. It is good you are having another ultrasound done.


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Don’t think it’s heat. Every 5-10 minutes she is not stretching her back up (like a cat does when pet), then laying down. Then she looks like she’s pushing/straining...her back legs straighten out and she rolls on her side


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Alright. Shortly after my last post she had a contraction and started pushing. We got the kid out (was breech) and not full term so naturally it was aborted . She is pregnant with multiples...will all be aborted or is there a chance she can carry to term?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sounds like she is aborting.  

Does anyone know how big a 2 month goat fetus is?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Oops, I didn't see your last post... I'm SO sorry. There is a chance that she will carry the other kid(s) to term, but it is slim.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sorry for the multiple posts, but how big was the kid? And how do you know she is/was carrying multiples?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> Sorry for the multiple posts, but how big was the kid? And how do you know she is/was carrying multiples?


We had an ultrasound back in October and saw 2-3 kids. So I know there's at least 1 more. It was about the size of a baseball if balled up. It is a Nigerian dwarf so would be smaller than a standard size


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Do you have a picture of the fetus. I would love to see it, we have a thread for that stuff too.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

(((((Hugs)))))


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Here is a picture. Best guesstimate on age is 15-16 weeks with 5-6 to go.

It has been an hour and a half since this guy came out. She is eating and drinking and acting normal. All discharge has stopped. Maybe the other(s) will make itfull term? Going to be checking on her all night! Of course I can’t sleep now!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

There is a possibility she will carry the remaining kid(s) full term. Sorry she miscarried


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Thank you so much for posting the picture! I think you are right about the age. 

If it has been an hour and half, that's a good sign (I think). Prayers sent your way!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

How'd she do through the night???????????


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

groovyoldlady said:


> How'd she do through the night???????????


Checked on her about 30 minutes ago. She seemed completely normal. No more discharge, a little swollen but it was hard for the fetus to come out (we had to assist) so that's probably normal. She peed sand pooped throughout the night so I feel like that's a good sign. She was "whining" but it was more like lonely whines than distress like yesterday.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is OK.


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

I would recommend monitoring her temperature over the next couple days. The fetus looks like it began to decompose, and while their body is usually pretty good about walling off or expelling dead fetuses, there's a possibility it could cause an infection. If she starts to spike a fever, I'd give her a course of antibiotics.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm so sorry you lost the little one. As others have said, the doe is your focus now. As for there being other kids still in there based on ultrasound -- be aware that ultrasounds are great for confirming pregnancies but not so much for counting heads. This per docs at Texas A&M Large Animal Hospital. Once we had a doe into A&M for an ultrasound and the supervising vet shared with me that she once counted multiple fetus in a doe, only to learn after the doe kidded that she'd been counting the same one repeatedly. Apparently this is more common than many realize! Hopefully there are more... and they'll go to term and do wonderfully! But be aware that this one poor little thing may be all there is this time. If so, good care of your doe can ensure she has a lot more future opportunities to bless you!


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Thanks everyone! We ended up taking her to a vet today to be checked over and for an ultrasound on any remaining. Our vet stressed how happy/healthy she looks and to monitor her closely for a while to make sure she continues to eat/drink. The ultrasound was inconclusive. She found 1 kid, saw it moving, but was unable to get a heartbeat. She does not have high hopes for the kid to make it full term. Said our doe could either abort it like this one, or absorb it, or it could still be “alive” and she could give birth at full term. So it is critical that we watch her behavior over the coming weeks and any slight change in her temperament or appetite we would need to address.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Oh yes, I'd be very careful with her in the next few weeks. That is good that she thinks the remaining one may still be alive.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh wow, yes, watch her and be sure she is not bullied. One hit can be devastating if the kid has a chance. Don't stress her if you can help it.
If you need to separate her by herself, if being bullied, have a gentle goat friend with her. 

Prayers sent for her and her baby.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Absolutely! I'd consider her like a human expectant mom "on bed rest"! Pamper and spoil her! (LOL) So hoping this turns out wonderfully for you! Please keep us posted.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Rebecca Meyer said:


> Thanks everyone! We ended up taking her to a vet today to be checked over and for an ultrasound on any remaining. Our vet stressed how happy/healthy she looks and to monitor her closely for a while to make sure she continues to eat/drink. The ultrasound was inconclusive. She found 1 kid, saw it moving, but was unable to get a heartbeat. She does not have high hopes for the kid to make it full term. Said our doe could either abort it like this one, or absorb it, or it could still be "alive" and she could give birth at full term. So it is critical that we watch her behavior over the coming weeks and any slight change in her temperament or appetite we would need to address.


Hi Rebecca. Any updates? How is your doe doing?????


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, we are on tenterhooks. What news?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Haha! Thank you for asking! She really seems to be doing just fine! She is a spunky little girl and after she passed the one fetus, her spunk returned. She has not passed the second fetus, so I am not sure if she will have it or absorb it. I have 2 other does that are pregnant and due around the same time as she was/is (about 4 more weeks) and I can feel movement from the kids in them (right hand side just in front of the utter), but no movement on her. She is still going to be getting fed as if she is pregnant through January in the event I am catching it at the wrong time.

We do have a couple non-pregnant girls in with them, and they share a fence-like with our buck. He is acting quite “Bucky” when the inbred girls get near the fence, and when the doe in question gets near the fence. Not sure if that’s a sign of her potentially being in heat again (she’s a silent heater) or him just being a buck.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Rebecca Meyer said:


> He is acting quite "Bucky" when the inbred girls get near the fence, and when the doe in question gets near the fence. Not sure if that's a sign of her potentially being in heat again (she's a silent heater) or him just being a buck.


By "inbred" I suspect you mean "open"?

Pregnancy and delivery hormones also set off bucks. In the wild, pregnant and delivering does are not near bucks. So there is not a history of differentiation. He may just be reacting to her recent delivery.

I hope she delivers live. I'm sorry that happened to you. You have taken very good care of her.


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

mariarose said:


> By "inbred" I suspect you mean "open"?
> 
> Pregnancy and delivery hormones also set off bucks. In the wild, pregnant and delivering does are not near bucks. So there is not a history of differentiation. He may just be reacting to her recent delivery.
> 
> I hope she delivers live. I'm sorry that happened to you. You have taken very good care of her.


Oops! Autocorrect and lack of proofreading! So sorry! Yes, I meant the unbred does!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Glad to hear she's doing well. Won't it be groovy if she DOES deliver another one in a month?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

groovyoldlady said:


> Glad to hear she's doing well. Won't it be groovy if she DOES deliver another one in a month?


Would be SO awesome! Last night while feeding her I felt her just in case..I felt a "rolling" feeling on my hand..not a normal kick feeling. I might be making it up, but maybe...!!!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Rebecca Meyer said:


> Would be SO awesome! Last night while feeding her I felt her just in case..I felt a "rolling" feeling on my hand..not a normal kick feeling. I might be making it up, but maybe...!!!


. I have had does pregnant with twins and never felt a baby move. So there is definitely still hope!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Keep us updated. Wouldnt it be cool if she delivers a live kid.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Was it the left side you felt the movement or right?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Was it the left side you felt the movement or right?


If I am standing at her behind looking towards her head...the right hand side. Looking at her head on, left.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

The right hand side is where the kids would be


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, it is looking from her backside for her right and left side. Sounds like possible kid(s) to me. 
Praying it is.


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Update on our June...I think she was in heat this past weekend. She had to be near the fence with our buck and they “spoke” with each other. I don’t know how long to wait before re-introducing her to him for another possible breeding...she has not passed her other kid, so I’m assuming she absorbed it, but how would I know when that happened?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Usually you see blood, if she aborted.
If she did, and she was late term, wait a few months or skip it until the next time you breed your does again before re-breeding, You want to be sure no infection is present and she is all cleaned out. 

If she never took, she can be re-bred now. But we really doen't know if she was or not?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Usually you see blood, if she aborted.
> If she did, and she was late term, wait a few months or skip it until the next time you breed your does again before re-breeding, You want to be sure no infection is present and she is all cleaned out.
> 
> If she never took, she can be re-bred now. But we really doen't know if she was or not?


She was bred, was about 16 weeks with twins. She lost one. We had her checked by the vet and ultrasounded and there is 1 more kid inside her, but the vet could not get a heartbeat, but said that isn't always uncommon. This was a month ago exactly...December 8th. Over this past weekend she was acting like she was very much in heat, and not preggo anymore. The vet did say she could pass the kid like the first, carry it full term, or absorb it...which I interpret to mean her body will just...for lack of better word..."eat" it. So we are kind of in a weird place with her right now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If a kid is still in there, I wouldn't re-breed her. She won't be able to get pregnant with that inside her. If the kid is dead, it can make her very ill from toxins at worse case. 

She can absorb it, but most mummify and stay there for a very long time.

Seems odd her body is telling her she is not pregnant. When indeed she is. Not sure if she will go into labor at 5 months still or not.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I agree, I would get her checked by the vet to see if she has a mummy. Mummifed kids can stay in mom for a very long time and can damage her, even to the point where she may not be able to get pregnant/hold a pregnancy again. We have had first-hand experience with that (but with two cows, not goats).


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

Strange question in regards to my doe that miscarried only 1 of her twins. Here is a picture of her this morning. We are getting close to her actual due date if kid inside survived. She has 0 udder development.









So does discharge like this when in heat? About 3 weeks ago I thought she might have been in heat. Am watching her closely this weekend to see if she goes back into heat and noticed this. I've never paid super close attention to my does while they are in heat, so not sure if this is a sign of heat, or potentially a sign of labor.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Can you get an ultrasound and see if there are any left in there. It is good to know. 
It is hard to say what is going on with her.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Discharge can certainly occur during heat. Any update on your June?


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> Discharge can certainly occur during heat. Any update on your June?


Thanks for asking! She is doing well...I am quite certain she has gone through 2 heat cycles since the miscarriage. I have tried the "bouncing" technique to see if I can feel a kid in there, and I just feel jello. I'm pretty sure she absorbed the kid that the vet saw via ultrasound back in December. She would have kidded sometime last week if she was carrying it to term, and there are 0 signs of late pregnancy/labor. No udder whatsoever...she doesn't like being alone, and she is wild! She is quite jealous that we have 2 does that just kidded and get grain daily as we milk them .

With that being said, I think we are going to let her go through one, possible 2 more heat cycles before trying to reintroduce her to the buck for breeding again. I hope this one was just a fluke and she can carry kids to term next time!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If there is any kid remains in there, she may not get preggo or she may have other issues. Make sure, she doesn't have an infection in there.


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> If there is any kid remains in there, she may not get preggo or she may have other issues. Make sure, she doesn't have an infection in there.


What would be the best way to tell about an infection? She is acting very normal, nothing off at all.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Put on a new surgical glove and gently go in her vulva area, just with your finger tip. Do the sniff test. 
If it stinks, she has infection going on.
If it smells OK, she is OK. 
After a while with infection going on, she will become very sick and will start smelling bad when you are standing near her or by doing the sniff test.


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## Rebecca Meyer (Dec 7, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Put on a new surgical glove and gently go in her vulva area, just with your finger tip. Do the sniff test.
> If it stinks, she has infection going on.
> If it smells OK, she is OK.
> After a while with infection going on, she will become very sick and will start smelling bad when you are standing near her or by doing the sniff test.


Just did this..happy to report no smell!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good.


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