# Grinding teeth or chewing cud or?



## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

We are new parents to an 8 week male possibly neubian goat. We have only had him about one day. He is getting bottle feed 3 times per day and we are introducing him to sweet feed. Today I noticed he has been temperamental to the point that he was trying to chew on his leash, blanket, and my clothes. What I've also noticed him doing is making a grinding noise sometimes. It seems like he does it out of frustration but sometimes it seems like he may be chewing cud. My husband seems to think that he can't be chewing cud since he is still on a mostly a milk diet still. Sometimes he also makes this facial gesture that I thought was yawning, but am now more concerned that it is a gagging reflex. Any advice or suggestions? He is now curled up on my lap but has been very fidgety and unruly for the past two hours. I walked him just now and he went to the bathroom. He is eating well and urinating, pooping at regular intervals.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Never hurts to get a temp rectally. Normal is 101.5 to 103.5


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...good to start with a temp...at 8 weeks old he will be quite busy, chewing on everything, they do also tend to grind their teeth as they figure them out...what kind of milk is he getting and how much? also about how much does he weigh...its a good idea to be sure you are not feeding too much causing a bit of an upset tummy...here is how I figure out how much he needs, this is just a guide, each kid is different and may need more or less...

weigh baby and multiply that by 16 to get his weight in oz
multiply his weight in oz by 10-12% to see how much he needs per day....
divide into 3 bottles...
feel tummy after his bottle. you want to feel a flat but firm tummy, not too poochy or sunken in. Adjust amount based on his need

I personally do not feed more then 16 oz per bottle no matter how much he weighs...At 8 weeks old its good you are introducing him to hay/alfalfa and some grain. might also let him snack on leaves, pine, cedar an vines...Also a quality loose mineral ( blocks are too hard on their teeth)

Oh and pix...we love baby pix!!


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm using the forum app, but it doesn't let me upload pics. My avatar is a picture of our goat. We will look into getting the loose mineral. We don't have an animal thermometer, so we'll have to get one of those. We raise guinea pigs and have some hay that we give them. Can we give our goat that hay? Our goat is about 8 weeks old and about 20 to 25 lbs. We were instructed to do 3 bottle feedings per day. We aren't sure what leaves are safe for them to eat. He has been wanting to eat everything from leaves to newspaper, to plastic bags, to even clothing. It's making it hard to have him around the house without either making him sit with us or Keeping him on a leash. We just have him, no momma. We are trying to raise him in the house in a crate. It is too cold outside for him and we don't have an outside home built for him yet. He is also very needy and we are having a hard time letting him have quiet time so we can take a break. He cries and feels alone. He is in the living room with us currently. He is curled up on my husband's lap. I've noticed even when he is sitting with us he will still grind his teeth. Sometimes I hear little digestive noises in his tummy or esophagus which makes me think he is cud chewing. He doesn't seem sick. I think he is still adjusting to us as new parents


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

Another question, if I have a pre-existing allergy to cats, could I also be allergic to goats?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

He needs a friend. Goats don't do well without a herd. They're not dogs. That's why he's "needy". You can use a human thermometer.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

What does his poop look like? He needs hay more than he needs sweet feed, don't let him overeat grain.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

well he's a cutie...does look Nubian. You can use any human rectal thermometer. We get a few cheap ones from walmart. Sounds like a normal busy baby who would do well with a playmate...if you are raising him as a pet, you will want to band him...waiting until he's older, about 3-4 months is best. a goat savvy friend or vet can do this for you. You might look for another bottle baby, another buck you can wether as a friend...he will do SoOOOO much better...take quiet naps, play with his buddy ...yes t means one more busy baby, but at least they will keep each other company. Do try to get his actual weight, you can step on a scale....then hold him and deduct your weight for a good idea of what her weighs...the grinding of teeth while relaxed is more then likely him playing with his teeth, its no uncommon...

best wishes


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

We will get a companion goat down the road when we are more set up and when he is fixed. We also don't have a human thermometer. Will have to get one. He has been a bit irritable seeming tonight. It is about 9:26pm. He isn't tired. He is sitting with my husband and has been nibbling on his clothes and occasionally grinding his teeth. I'm concerned about the teeth grinding. His poop is a dark brown color and they are tiny little pellets. He has pooped and urinated multiple times today. What kind of hay do you recommend? We are still mostly bottle feeding and just giving him a little bit of sweet feed.


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

Thank you for the advice thus far we greatly appreciate it. If you have hay suggestions that would be great. We will probably invest in a rectal thermometer. I spoke with my husband and he stated that he would prefer to wait until our goat is full grown or almost full grown and then get a companion of similar age and not bottle fed.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

He's hungry, give him some of the piggie hay for tonight and go buy a bale of alfalfa tomorrow. He should have been eating solid food for weeks now. Put the sweet feed away and get him some rolled oats, he doesn't need raised on donuts... 
He does need a friend now, or you are going to have a spoiled and possibly dangerous large goat on your hands. He must learn to be a goat.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I strongly recommend you get him a companion. They have a very stressful time being alone - all herd animals do. My first nigerian was alone until I found another doeling but we had lambs at the time and that was of some help. It will be easier for you and for your little one to have one of his own. He needs a friend that will run, jump and butt heads with him. 
I personally will not sell a goat that will not have a companion, I feel it is that hard them. 
Good luck with him - they are a pleasure.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Eating hay will give him something to do. It sounds like you have your hands full! All my goats were raised in a barn, so I can only imagine what havoc an energetic youngster can raise in the house! Alfalfa hay can be eaten by both the goat and your guinea pigs. (you probably knew that!). Good luck with your little guy!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...i would not wait to get a buddy....


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

He needs a buddy NOW or he will end up a totally mixed up baby who doesn't know how to act like a goat. He is NOT a dog, they are raised totally differently. They can't stay in a cage all day and be expected to lay around all calm and quiet while you watch tv. They are very active animals and will go nuts if constantly confined.

Please, either get him a friend and proper housing, or find him a new home...how you are raising him will make him a neurotic mess.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you have been told this by everyone who posted here and you are totally ignoring the advice...time to look at the reality of the situation...treat him like a goat!!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I agree with crittercarnival... You are setting him up for failure and you will most definitely regret how you're raising him.


Do not get into animals before you are ready to care for them. Make finding a friend and building a shelter a priority right now...

I got my doelings at 8 weeks old and they were weaned, living outside, and eating browse/hay/alfalfa/minimal grain. I hope you've researched his health needs....goats are tricky and NEED special care. Honestly I hope you find him a new home and get two goats when you're actually ready for them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

PLEASE KEEP COMMENTS HELPFUL AND POSITIVE...I think the Op is doing just fine...she's here to learn. Many of us have started the same way...get the goat, then figure things out..its not the best laid plans, I know..thats how I did it...but when some one comes on here its because they want to learn and do whats best for their new goat. so lets help her do that with positive feed back on how to best achieve a happy healthy buck.

to the OP

Yes please get him started on hay/alfalfa to get his rumen up and going...I would pickup some goat pellets over the sweet feed and just start him with a handful twice daily...he may just play with it for a while but he will get it...At 8 weeks I would also drop one bottle...this will encourage him to try the hay/alfalfa and pellets..and start looking for a friend...it will really make a huge difference in his life...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If you get a friend that is already munching on hay he will also help the little guy out on figuring it out. When I first started it was 7 bottle babies and those suckers seemed to take forever to figure out what hay was. Drove me crazy! After I really got into goats and had more bottle babies I left them out with other kids who had moms and they figured out the whole big goat feed right on time as the rest.


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

Thank you all everyone once again for your advice however strong or blunt it may be. We are just starting out and are looking to experienced owners such as yourselves. We are getting him banded this weekend and will look into trying to find a companion for him. We are gong to drop one bottle feeding and start giving him hay. He ate some leaves outside today and my husband took him for a nice hike around our city lake park. We are going to move him to an outside pen once it isn't so cold outside. We had ice this morning. My husband is feeding him more hay now. For the hay, is it just two handfuls per day or more? Are rolled oats just oatmeal? We also got him minerals today. Tomorrow he will be out in the pen during the day as we work. We are going to look into getting a companion if we can find one local. A friend of mine raises goats and is going to band him this weekend so we are going to talk to her to see if she maybe has a goat available.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Rolled oats are bought at the feed store. They are whole oats that are just pressed to crack them so they still contain the fiberous husk for the kids digestion. While you're there you will want to find a small bag of calf manna, a bale of alfalfa, and a small bag of sunflower seeds. 
He should have alfalfa hay and minerals available all the time. Work him up to about a pint of oats with 1/4 cup of calf manna and a couple Tablespoons of sunflower seeds mixed in, split into 2 feedings. He should nibble at this several times a day and start growing really nice. For my kids I would have to put this amount out for them twice a day as I provide endless creep feed at this age. 
If you don't want to mix your own grains you should look for a goat grower with 16% protein such as Noble Goat 16R, Nobel Goat 16DM, Honor Show Goat, Blue Seal Meat goat gro and finish, etc...


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

If you haven't discovered it already here is a link to a great goat information website to help you get started in the right direction. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/#af
I highly recommend you do as much research a possible, wethers also require a little extra monitoring on what they eat because of the risk of UC(urinary calculi aka urinary stones) which can be deadly, this problem is common in bucks and wethers but especially wethers, Feed ration with at least a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio (2 parts calcium to 1 part phosphorus).alfalfa hay is higher in calcium than grass hay which can also upset the balance. I agree to Postpone neutering as long as possible( 3 or 4 months) to allow the urethra to grow, the bigger the urethra the more likely it is the stones can pass if they ever develop. My vet has a saying around the office "friends don't let friends buy male goats" because of the UC problem and how many goats they have to put down because of it. Goats are actually tricky to take care of until you get the hang of it and then right when you get the hang of it something new pops up LOL. It takes time but I think you'll be fine, the fact that you found TGS( the goat spot) says to me you really want to take a jab at taking proper care of your little guy which is really great!! I wish you good luck!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would also recommend a tetanus antitoxin shot BEFORE banding him....its a cheap shot against a horrid disease...tractor supply has it in 4 ml vile....2 cc is plenty given sub Q (under the skin) this is important to do before banding, disbudding,after a injury causing a puncture wound or broken bone...Its a thin liquid so a 22 G needle works and baby wont hardly even feel it. 

be sure to go slow when adding new foods...hay is ok but when adding alfalfa or grains...offer a little at a time and as Goathiker said...work him up to how much he needs..

best wishes!


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

^I agree with happybleats


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow Yonnah, your vet had a fatalistic view of goats. I've raised a lot of wethers of all breeds over the years an have never had a UC problem. Most have lived to be 14 to 16 years old. Balance is important and alfalfa is a large percent of that balance but, the most important thing is to always make sure that they always have access to salt and plenty of fresh water to drink. Keeping the urine diluted is the single most important thing.


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

goathiker said:


> Wow Yonnah, your vet had a fatalistic view of goats. I've raised a lot of wethers of all breeds over the years an have never had a UC problem. Most have lived to be 14 to 16 years old. Balance is important and alfalfa is a large percent of that balance but, the most important thing is to always make sure that they always have access to salt and plenty of fresh water to drink. Keeping the urine diluted is the single most important thing.


That makes me feel better!! I didn't think it was a problem until my vet said that. I've only had one wether with UC problems in 15 years of goat raising, and that unfortunate incident happened earlier this year so according to them I had just been lucky up until then. My goat have constant access to salt and a tone of water with the occasional ACV added in to help prevent and break downs stones. Not sure but my thinking is maybe because its mainly horse and cattle country out here that the smallish amount of goats my vet does see are mainly there for blood tests and UC problems? They are a good vet but I don't agree with some things they do(aka putting goats under anesthesia for EVERYTHING no matter how small the procedure) But anyways I'm glad to know its a not as big of a problem as they made it out to be, I'm glad I'm not just lucky!!


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## AceofTrace (Dec 13, 2015)

Greetings all! 

Just wanted to reply to everyone since I've been off the forum for several weeks. Lakota is doing well and now has a friend, A Boy Named Sioux, to keep company. The goats are thriving and have adapted well with the chickens. We are not leaving chicken feed out anymore because the goats keep eating it. Instead we either put some chicken feed in the coop or throw scratch around in the yard. The chickens hunt around for it but the goats don't seem to really go after it, which is good. We have plenty of oak and tree leave from a fallen tree in the pen. It fell last year. We cut it up into stumps and kind of just left it there. That was before we had the goats. Now the goats play on the stumps and eat the leaves from the tree. My husband also puts some various tree branches in the pen for the goats. 

Lakota is doing well. We are still weaning him from the bottle feeding. He is down to just two feedings per day and they are only half doses. Mostly water. He has access to the water buckets in the pen. We give them hay access and browse access in the pen. We are feeding both goats a small amount of grains, calf mana, minerals and then letting them be open in the pen to browse and graze on the hay. Heck, even the chickens seem to enjoy the hay! 

I did have one question. We have aloe vera that is growing in our pen. The chickens have never touched it really, but I've noticed that Lakota and Sioux sometimes nibble on it. I tried to do some online research about it, but it was inconclusive. Any thoughts? I had considered penning it off or removing it from the pen. My husband seems to think that it isn't harmful to them. 

Sioux is a few months older than Lakota. We got him from a breeder somewhat near to our area, a few cities away. He is half Pygmy and is about as big as he is going to get. He can be friendly and skittish as well. He loves to greet us at the fence and enjoys hand feeding. He loves the oak leaves we provide him and I often seem him chewing on them.

Lakota is just a little love. He loves to follow us around in the pen, but also will run off and do his own thing. He likes to try to play with us, with some gentle head butting. We haven't fixed him yet. We had read the advice about waiting until he is full developed to castrate, so that it reduces the risk of him getting calcifications that he cannot pass through his urethra. We are considering that still. We are going to reduce the bottle feeding again next week. We were told to wean slowly and we don't want to jog his system too much. He loves the hay and grains and calf mana. He has a good appetite. He is affectionate and enjoys our company and pets. Sioux was not raised that way, so he is more hesitant about human contact and petting, but still enjoys hand feeding and greeting us. 

Sioux has a very tiny sounding voice as compared to Lakota. It is funny because Sioux is much bigger in size (for now) than Lakota, but it makes such a tiny bleat. It's cute. Lakota seems to cry a lot at night. My husband has noticed it and so has our neighbors. So at night, Sioux is in a crate in the pen and we put Lakota in one of our chicken coops. It works well and when I got out in the morning to let the goats and chickens out, Lakota doesn't start crying until he hears me letting out the chickens. 

Neither goats appear to be in stress or distress. They are not crying throughout the day, unless they see people walk by or if we walk by--- then they will get excited and call out to us and run to the fence to see us.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Great update! Best wishes, they look like they are having fun :thumbup:


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm so glad everyone's doing well!!! I knew y'all would be fine once you got into the swing of things!! :thumb:


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