# LGD questions



## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

I have a puppy I rescued recently from my neighbor who couldn't take care of him. He is about 12 weeks old. He is a german shepherd mix/ black and tan coonhound. I'm not in a need of a LGD or I would just go get an antololian or great pyrn. But I intended on keeping this little guy and he needs to earn his keep. With that being said would it be a good idea to train him to be a LGD?? He's going to be a big dog but is so underweight that right now he's just being a lap dog. He does go with me to care for all the animals and does extremely well compared to what my other dogs have done when first meeting them. He has no interest in chasing chickens, or the goats. I have ended up searching for him and found him laying with my kinder doe. What steps would I have to take? He will need to get completely healthy again before any training starts. I've finally got some weight on him, the first pictures are from 2 weeks after I got him, which he had actually put a lot of weight on even though he's super skinny, to now about a week after the first pictures. 

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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

No! He should not be considered as a LGD. Keep him as a pet/watch dog, but not as a LGD. It would be asking for trouble and could end in heartbreak. Livestock guard dogs have been bred for generations to have the right mind for living with, bonding with, and protecting livestock. They are bred for it. Non-LGD breeds just won't work.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Kylie is right. 

Non LGDs with stock is a recipe for disaster. 

Not just any dog can be an LGD. It's a specialized thing. Your better off getting a puppy with parents who are LGD breeds and working with stock. Just because he likes the goats doesn't mean he has what it take physically and instinct wise to protect them. 


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## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

I don't need him as a protector for them as I have no predators and I already have a collie who takes care of that. But I would like for him to stay in the pasture with them. 

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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Not a good idea, sorry.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

A Collie as a protector? That is also not an LGD, that's a herding breed. 

It still isn't a good idea to leave a non LGD in a pasture alone. Especially not with another Non LGD. LGDs have been bred to be able to withstand winters and summers living outside. If you don't need it for protecting why take a risk anyway? If this poor guy had a rough go early in life it's probably best to just let him live inside and enjoy life being with people. Or give him to someone that will do that. Not every dog is meant to earn it's keep.

So many people have lost all or most of their stock trying to make non LGDs work. Just ask on any LGD facebook group. A lot of those people are more blunt and harsh about this stuff because they've witnessed some kind of dog related tragedy first hand.


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## aceofspades (Dec 26, 2012)

I see many people say No NO No. 
I do agree that traditionally there are certainly breeds that are better suited. But that doesn't mean others can't be trained. 
I happen to have a pitbull that is a great Livestock guardian


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Even some LGDs don't make the cut.


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## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

My collie doe well in all weather since she's a rough collie and the environment has a different effect on her coat then if she was kept out. I understand the risk, but I was wondering if anyone has successfully done it or seen a non LGD protect livestock. 


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## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

aceofspades said:


> I see many people say No NO No.
> I do agree that traditionally there are certainly breeds that are better suited. But that doesn't mean others can't be trained.
> I happen to have a pitbull that is a great Livestock guardian


How did you train your pit bull? I have had pit bulls but I never let them alone with the goats as I was always afraid if something happened I wouldn't get them to let go.

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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I'm guessing his pit bull has a good temperament, each dog is different. Many pit bulls are aggressive and dangerous with livestock, while others are sweet and gentle. It's luck of the draw in most cases...

I don't recommend having your puppy in the goat pen without your supervision. You could build an area for him that's connected to the pen, so he can hang with the goats through the fence. His presence will keep any threats away, along with his barking.


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## aceofspades (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm not going to turn this topic in to one about the misconception of pit pulls. i have several pit bulls all of them are great with people and my livestock. It was not that long ago that the pitbull was an American icon and they were considered as one of the best babysitters And protectors of children. Remember petty from little rascals? 
Ultimately that's what an LGD is a babysitter/protector 
Colt is my big blue pit I've had him 10years he just took the job. He's been around my goats since birth I raised him with them. 
One day the neighbors lab mutt dug under the fence and was chasing my goats. As soon as opened the door colt bolted out and penned the lab down. 
After that he wouldn't leave the goats. 
He's been out with my goats for 2 years and in that time i have not lost 1 single goat or chicken to a predator.
I'm not saying that you should use a pit bull what I'm saying it is a possibility that other breeds can do the job. 
Just like people every dog has its own personality.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

It has nothing to do with misconceptions and everything to do with the proof being in the pudding. Your Pitbull may be great with your goats, but I guarantee it doesn't guard like an LGD. It's not an LGD. Nor will it ever be. You lucked into getting a dog that likes goats. 

There is a reason people don't believe in non LGDs. It's because a good 80% don't work. As someone previously stated, even some real LGDs don't work out. Now those 20% non LGD that do work is all luck. It has nothing to do with training because either a dog is suited for the life style or it isn't. As a well known LGD trainer once said "We don't train them, we mold them. If the instincts are there we just mold them from puppyhood to do their job".

I'm not trying to be mean. I apologize if any of that is harsh. I realize that a lot of it is, but I think it's important you realize the severity of the situation. If this dog snaps one day without warning (As most non LGDs tend to do) he could kill everything you've raised. That's no light matter. If your going to be trusting something with your animals it should be something truly suited for that job. A hospital wouldn't send a random person who read some stuff of the internet to do heart surgery. Sure if he read enough stuff maybe he could luck into succeeding, but most likely he wouldn't. Same idea. Different scenario. 


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

And when I say misconception to clarify I'm talking about LGD versus non LGD. The Pitbull debate has no place here. It doesn't pertain to the OP. 


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