# wagon for goat trip?



## ohiogoatgirl (Jan 31, 2010)

I want to go on a trip when I get my goats and I am wanting a wagon for my goats to pull. I was thinking it would be about 6x5ft wide. I dont want a super heavy one, I only want to have 4 goats to pull it. any ideas???
I'm thinking a double of this harness set up would be good...?
http://www.napga.org/album_frame.asp?menuID=14


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm sure four goats would work together pulling a larger cart or trailer. I once saw an old picture of multiple teams of Cashmere goats pulling a sled in the gold rush days of the Klondike. I tried to find a copy to post here but couldn't find it on the net anywhere.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

How long have you had goats Rex? And you're sure they'll work together? hahahahahah

:lol:


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Alright.....LOL! I know what you're thinking. If we can't get them to string together on the trail how in the heck would we ever get them to pull together? I swear I saw a photograph of several harnessed together and they seemed to be working fine.

Hopefully they can be confined to a small area with the harness so they don't cause any major tangles. Wrecks are another issue all together. Hope the cart has airbags.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

here is one - it's not the one I remember but evidence!!

http://gelean.tripod.com/goats.jpg


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## Shelly Borg (Nov 2, 2009)

That photo was taken in Alaska. There was a time during the gold rush that if it could pull/carry anything it did.
I found a wagon at TS that would fit this bill nicely. It is just right for 4 goats and you could easily sleep on it. It would need walls and a top but easier then making something. 
I have decided I want to train my boys to this when every one is older. If just once or twice a year for show. They will be a 6 or 8 in hand. I can already hook two of the together and walk behind them down a road. I can see it will take a lot of work to get there before I try.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

This man is holding the current world record in driving goats

http://www.br-online.de/content/cms/Bil ... 133758.jpg

12 goats

He lives in Gemany and I'm planning to call him for an interview about training the goats and everything else.

an another one with 6 goats pulling a waggon

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h ... G%26um%3D1


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

Just wanted to let you know, we drive 4 goats all the time. We have a wagon with three shafts. The wheel team has the shafts , the leader team works off of a double tree on the two outer shafts. It is a good system, which is easy to drive and comfortable for the goats. We drive our goats on a daliy basis, they do a lot of work on our farm. Also driving goats is just plain fun! 
Recently over the holidays , our 4wd atv mule broke a wheel bearing, so the goats had to do all the hauling for over a month. They did awesome! Our farm is 15 acres of up and down hill, so hauling feed and hay is not an easy job, but the goats did great. Also goats do not have 
wheel bearings that break. 
Happy driving!
Bambi
www.draftgoats.com


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello Bambi,

could you explain your three shaft system some more?


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

Please do. All I can imagine is a shaft on each side of the goat, and the third right up the middle... but I don't think the goat would appreciate being poked by it :lol:


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Um, Bob, with a four-in-hand hitch, you would have the middle shaft running between the two wheel goats and the outside shafts running outside them. The front goats wouldn't have shafts, of course. 

Bambi, I'm curious why you use three shafts and not just a team pole. Wouldn't the shafts make the whole thing a bit unwieldy and give your goats less "wiggle room" if their partner decided to get a little out of line? I've driven horse teams, and we never used shafts for pairs, only for single driving. I would consider it dangerous for animals as large as horses to be paired inside shafts, but goats are a different matter, of course. I'd love to hear your reasons, especially since I plan to drive teams of goats one day. 

Actually, what I think would be marvelous would be goat chariot races like they had in Greece and Rome, with four prancing goats hitched abreast. From what I hear, these were just like the horse chariot races but for women and children to compete.


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

To reply to questions of three shaft. There is a shaft on each side of each goat and a shared shaft in the middle. We use this system instead of 
a pole and collars because we have found it to work better. We tried collars when first driving, but found them uncomfortable for the goats. It is our opinion that goats are not designed to carry weight in their necks. They produce their pulling power by pushing their weight with their chest.
We have used three shafts for many years and find it very comfortable for the goats and easy to drive. There is a picture of one of our carts on the website.
Happy driving!
Bambi
draftgoats.com

P.S. The picture of the man driving twelve goats is awesome.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello,

I looked at your picture of the three shaft cart. Do you use the three shaft method on two-wheeled carts only or also on 4-wheeled carts?


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Bambi, how come you don't use a team pole with breastcollar harnesses? Combined driving competitors use breastcollars, not neck collars, and they drive in teams of 2-4 horses. When I have more goats, I'm planning to drive them in teams but with breastcollar harnesses and only one pole since I hate shafts even with one goat... they're a nuisance to hook up, in my opinion. It was easier to hitch my team of horses when I did carriage tours than it is to hitch up my one goat to his cart!


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Just make sure that you check before you go to see if wheeled vehicles are allowed. THey are not allowed in wilderness areas and many other places. SOunds like fun though.


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

We use the three shafts on two-wheeled and four-wheeled and a small gang disc. I have a set of three shafts that is moveable to different vehicles and different implements. They are easy to attach with two bolts.

I'm not sure what a breast collar harness is? I drove horses before the goats, and have never heard of a breast collar harness. Could you explain? 

Thanks, Bambi


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## circle*s*acres (Dec 19, 2009)

Well,
I'm still on the learning end of driving goats, but I've broke and drove horses for years. A breast collar harness-- if he means what I think, we would of called it a breast strap. It is the style of pulling harness that you are using were the animal pull by a strap across their breast. I not sure that this info would really matter, because goats are much smaller than horses, however, even with a normal two shaft pulling set up you lose some ability to make tight turns. The shafts do not bend and will push against the animals shoulder if they make too tight of a turn.

Goats are not mini horses and it does not work well to use horse collars on them. I've just bought my first harness from Adam at http://dwharnessshop.tripod.com/index.html. He has a really good product. He has developed a soft collar that fits a goat very well. When I showed my dad pics of my goat in the harness his comment was..."I don't know about goats pulling, but if it does work out it sure will not be the harness's fault." He thought the harness fit the goat great. He is a horseman and doesn't understand me downsizing to goats. lol But he does know what he is talking about when it comes to harness and fit. Several years ago I tried to get an Amish man to make me a harness for my goat.. all I got was a mini horse harness.. It sure didn't work well. I've been thinking about making my own harness for years but never got around to it. I seen Adam's harness on some goats in a pic. I knew that I was looking at a great product. Found out a way to contact him and now I'm the proud owner of one harness. I've already order the second one. Hope to have my two wethers pullin as a team by mid summer. They are already pulling kids and sleds of wood for me. I just love to drive a team. I can't drive a team of horses any more, but hopefully a team of goats will be just as fun.

Liza
Loren & Liza Stallsmith
Circle S Leather - http://Braintanner.com


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Bambi said:


> We use the three shafts on two-wheeled and four-wheeled and a small gang disc.


OK, but I still keep wondering about your saying that goats shouldn't carry weight with their neck....

I agree that they shouldn't carry with their neck but I've learned that in driving, NO weight is supposed to rest on either shaft or pole but that the waggon resp. cart and the load has to be balanced and the animal only carries the weight of the pole (and that is small enough that it shouldn't hinder even when using a collar).

I understand the problem of hitching two goats to a two-wheeled cart and them balancing the cart and load - I think about solving that for some time now - and found the following solution from "old England": a curricle

http://www.galerieneffegravure.com/carrick_curricle.htm

http://www.humanist.de/rome/rts/dorsal.html

or one would hitch the goats not abreast but as tandem, the wheel goat in shafts and the lead goat with singletree.


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Yeah, sorry Bambi. Breastcollar is the same as breast strap for me. I've noticed that there are several pieces of harness that are called different things depending on which part of the country you're from. Shafts/shaves; singletree/whiffletree; crupper/crouper; breeching/britchin; blinkers/winkers/blinders... just to name a few.  

And, like Sanhestar, I'm also wondering about the weight on the neck concern. The pole (and yoke, if you used one instead of a strap or chain) should not be terribly heavy, and a collar should fit down toward the shoulders so that the draft weight is not being pulled from the neck. 

Sanhestar, I couldn't read your first link... I don't read French, but your link about the Roman yoke system was interesting.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Nanno said:


> Sanhestar, I couldn't read your first link... I don't read French, but your link about the Roman yoke system was interesting.


I don't speak French either (don't tell anybody  ) but the pictures are interesting. They showed me another way to connect the curricle "yoke" with a pole.


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

I thought that was what you meant about a breast collar harness, but wasn't sure. As to the problem with the weight of the shafts on the goats. I am very fortunate that my father makes pony carts , and makes all of my goat vehicles. The two- wheeled carts ,both the one with three shafts, and the one with two shafts are very well balanced, so there is not much weight on the goat's backs. If I am going to be driving in a tight area ( not much room) , I use the two-wheeled cart with two shafts and hitch the goats in tandem, as you said Sanhestar.
As to the neck collar opinions, I can tell you from experience , it does not work for us. When I first started to disc with the goats, I used a pole with neck collars. The goats tired easily and were not comfortable. When I switched to the three shafts, the goats were able to pull the disc longer without tiring. Also ,with three shafts, I can either use a pair or add a pair of leaders for 4 on the disc.
I do think properly padded and well designed harness is necessary. The three shafts work for us, but if anyone has another system, use what is best for your goats.
Happy driving,

Bambi


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## circle*s*acres (Dec 19, 2009)

Just an interesting note... I was talking to my Dad tonight about this thread. He said that he has seen horses hitched up with the three poles like is mentioned above. If your really check into the history of pulling rigs you will find all kinds of interesting stuff. I found this thread very interesting.

Lucky you for being able to have family help make your wagons. My Dad made and restored all kinds of horse drawn stuff. Me, I was young and did a lot of sanding, painting, and vanishing for him. I've been in more buggy shops with him than I can count. Wish we could make a goat cart together, but I don't think it will happen. Would your father be interested in helping me put together a special wagon for my Nigerian Dwarf goats? I am going to start with a fiberglass wagon that I have for the kids (two legged). However, if we can get them pulling well I would like something more comfortable for an adult. I live where it is pretty much flat so there wouldn't be many hills. I've even played with the idea of a goat chariot. lol Something I could walk behind and step up into if I wanted. Crazy as it sounds, I just want the enjoyment of driving a team again. Plus we will use them some on our little "farm".

Thanks for sharing about how you hitch and drive your goats. Who knows down the road a ways I might be trying it out.

Liza
Loren & Liza Stallsmith
Circle S Leather - http://Braintanner.com


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

Attached photo is from a poster I bought on Ebay. It is on the White House lawn in 1890. It would suggest that carts for goats is not such a new idea.
IdahoNancy


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Goat carts were very popular for children up through the early 1900's. Then as bicycles came into vogue, the goat cart practically faded from existence. I've talked to a few old timers who had draft goats when they were kids, some of whom would even drive into town for the mail or to school. There were ornate goat coaches to taxi children around Central Park in the late 1800's, and goat or donkey carts could be rented at some popular beaches. Traveling photographers often went around with either a pony or a goat and wagon to pose children in for a photograph. That's one reason we see so many children posing in goat-drawn vehicles around the turn of the century. It was a clever sales gimmick, because what parent could turn down a photograph of their children holding the reins of a proud goat? :mrgreen: 

And as I said earlier, I read once that goat-drawn chariot racing was a sport for women and children back in ancient Rome, and perhaps even earlier in Greece. So goat carting is by no means a newfangled concept!


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Liza,
Your nigerian dwarf goats are very cute. My father is currently working on a small 4 wheel wagon for a customer that has small (short) goats.
The body of the wagon is 2 feet wide by 4 feet long with 12" wheels in the front and 16" wheels in the rear. When he gets it done, I will post a 
picture.
Just curious, how did you go from horses to goats? I also came from driving horses to driving goats. After working with goats , I do not think I 
would ever go back to horses. Goats are so easy to train and very personable.

Happy Driving,

Bambi


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## circle*s*acres (Dec 19, 2009)

Well... Health, Money, and four two legged kids. That little statement says a lot. lol I realized that I did not have time for my horse with my third child on the way. It was hard to do, as I had broke her. But I let her go to some place where she would be used. She was a beautiful old style Morgan. One that was fun to ride, but not really for an inexperienced rider. After I sold her I went crazy for two weeks then went and bought my first goat. I just needed a animal to fuss over. From there I got into the Nigerians. Size was great- for fencing and small children. I love their personalities. One year they dropped all bucks. I gave in the the children's begging and let them keep two. Now I had to justify keep them so we started taking small hikes with them. I'm trying to get enough gear together to do a overnight hike this coming fall.

This fall I took a good look at my life and realized that God had blessed me with goats not horses, and that I need to walk forward with my life without looking back. I got serious about using our goats and not just raising them to sell. Bought harness and sleds and I was off. I enjoy spending time together with both sets of my "Kids". Hopefully we will all benefit from it.

I would love to see pics when the wagon is done. How did you go from horses to goats? 
I must admit that hauling goats especially the little guys is sooo much easier than hauling horses. I can't imagine life without them. Between both sets of "kids" I get many smiles a day. I love watching them interact with each other.

Liza

Loren & Liza Stallsmith
Circle S Leather - http://Braintanner.com


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## imported_Bambi (Aug 25, 2009)

Hi Liza,
I also had to give up horses because of family ,etc. My Mom passed away suddenly , then my father was ill with cancer. When my father got sick, we bought two nubian milk does for the milk. I enjoyed the milking and especially the babies (kids) . I am not much of a farmer, because I couldn't bear to sell any of the babies. So , I had to come up with a job for the goats, and got into driving them. They help with a majority of the farm work and are great packers.
The goat milk was a miracle, because my father has been cancer free for 5 years.

Happy Driving,

Bambi


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