# Briard/Border collie



## billiejw89

How well do you think a Briard/Border collie mix would work with the goats?


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## ksalvagno

Not as a guard.


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## toth boer goats

Not classified as LGD. They are a herding type and need supervision at all times.


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## billiejw89

This little girl was gave to me. I know she may not be ideal, but I'm hoping with the right training she will work for our farm. It's a bummer that she wouldn't be good at guarding. I'm sure we can find good use for her though


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## toth boer goats

She is adorable.


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## goathiker

Briards are no longer herding dogs anymore than German Shepherds are. They have been bred for police and military work for 100's of years. They are "velcro dogs" always stuck to your leg. They need early training and early socialization. They can become too protective of their person so, be on guard for that. It would be best to start training right now using the follow the treat method. Work in 3 or 4 short sessions daily in different places including around strangers. Also brush her daily starting right now. Get into the habit of spending 1/2 an hour daily caring for her coat and nails. Maybe make it your unwind time after a days work. It will make things much much easier when her full coat comes in. 
Briards and Border Collies both excel at search and rescue if that might be of interest to you, another good job would be Agility or Fly ball.


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## billiejw89

goathiker said:


> Briards are no longer herding dogs anymore than German Shepherds are. They have been bred for police and military work for 100's of years. They are "velcro dogs" always stuck to your leg. They need early training and early socialization. They can become too protective of their person so, be on guard for that. It would be best to start training right now using the follow the treat method. Work in 3 or 4 short sessions daily in different places including around strangers. Also brush her daily starting right now. Get into the habit of spending 1/2 an hour daily caring for her coat and nails. Maybe make it your unwind time after a days work. It will make things much much easier when her full coat comes in.
> Briards and Border Collies both excel at search and rescue if that might be of interest to you, another good job would be Agility or Fly ball.


Oh wow, thanks for the info, I didn't realize they were more police/military type. Very interesting. I can't wait to see what her temperament will be like as she gets older. we will get started on her training immediately. The People who had her said mom is border collie, dad is briard and they live in a rural area and they keep the wild animals from their gardens and watch over the chickens. 
She's gonna be a handful! We are so excited to have her though.


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## ksalvagno

She sure is cute!


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## KW Farms

Yep, definitely not a livestock guardian. She would be great for around the farm, but with the border collie in her...she'll most likely need a job.


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## Karen

It will be interesting to see which side her ears decide to take after. She will undoubtedly be busy, likely smart and sweet when she is tired ... I am very glad you are starting training now!


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## goathiker

I think she's going to turn out looking pretty much purebred Briard. Natural Briard ears hang down. To make them stand up the ears are glued together across the top of the head. Some breeders tie the ear hairs together instead of gluing. 
Don't mess with it... They are cute either way.


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## billiejw89

goathiker said:


> I think she's going to turn out looking pretty much purebred Briard. Natural Briard ears hang down. To make them stand up the ears are glued together across the top of the head. Some breeders tie the ear hairs together instead of gluing.
> Don't mess with it... They are cute either way.


Oh wow, I had no idea they did that. I was wondering about them because many of the pictures I've seen the ears are sticking straight up. Her ears are perfect the way they are :-D


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## goathiker

This course has trained many of my dogs. They excel quickly and with no stress. Well worth the shipping cost...

http://www.amazon.com/Silvermans-Hollywood-Training-Program-Techniques/dp/B000A3MEBU


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## Goats Rock

She sure is cute!


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## billiejw89

goathiker said:


> This course has trained many of my dogs. They excel quickly and with no stress. Well worth the shipping cost...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Silvermans-Hollywood-Training-Program-Techniques/dp/B000A3MEBU


Thank you, I'll check it out


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## SalteyLove

How sweet she is. What is her name? We want to see more photos! Did you get to meet the parents or the rest of the litter?


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## billiejw89

Her name is Sadie  I will definitely post more pictures soon. I didn't get to meet the parents, but I seen lots of pictures of them. And the lady told me so much about them. She was totally in love with both of her dogs, living as part of their farm. She said they protect her chickens very well.


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## billiejw89

Sadie loves the snow!


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## SalteyLove

So adorable! Has she been an easy puppy so far?


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## ksalvagno

What a cutie!


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## billiejw89

SalteyLove said:


> So adorable! Has she been an easy puppy so far?


She has been really good. I take her to do chores with me and she follows right along, she is very calm for the most part. She listens very well. She is doing great on potty training too! Her bark is super loud. We love her so much already. She has only been on the other side of the fence with the goats and chickens so far. She will go up and check them out but she doesn't seem to care to much about them. She moves right along.


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## billiejw89

Sadie is doing well learning basic commands. She is calm for the most part, but around 7pm she goes insane. Very hyper and vocal. It takes awhile to get her settled. But when she does calm down she sleeps through the night. I think we may need to exercise her around that time.

here she is demonstrating her "sit" she is very good at that one


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## Karen

Aww, good "sit" petty girl!


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## billiejw89

I was in observing the preg gals today. Sadie came along. She went up to say hi to the goats, but they quickly told her to get lost. She then went and munched on what's left of the Christmas tree. She sat there minding her own business for the longest time. Then someone pulled into the neighbors driveway, she sat up straight and alert and barked real low. I told her it was ok, she was quiet after that but didn't take her attention off them.


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## Karen

billiejw89 said:


>


Good girl, Sadie! Good girl!


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## ksalvagno

That is great!


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## billiejw89

Poor Sadie, she was straining to pee yesterday. I brought a urine sample to the vet they told me to bring her in this morning because she had something going on. She seemed to be feeling much better and acting normal but I brought her in anyways.

He said she has a lot of crystals in her urine, and he could possible feel a bump that could be in her bladder...

So now she's on antibiotics for 2 weeks, special dog food, and distilled water only.

The bill came out to $209. The dog food costs $27 for an 8# bag! The meds were $89 I was a bit shocked. Vet wants to feel her belly again once we finish the meds. I hope it dissolves itself. My poor girl.

She is 4 months old now and weighs 35 lbs!


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## ksalvagno

Poor thing. I hope she gets better soon.


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## billiejw89

Sadie seems to be feeling better! This is her today, she likes looking at the cows in the neighbors pasture.

I'm trying to figure out a good diet for her because Hill's science diet it a little to pricey for us! Any suggestions??


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## goathiker

Nothing but raw here :lol:


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## ksalvagno

She sure is cute!


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## billiejw89

Thanks! 

I'd like to learn more about feeding raw, all the information seems so overwhelming!


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## goathiker

It is so easy its amazing. I feed prey model raw and my dogs are extremely healthy. My old min-pin was dying the day I started, today he's soft and healthy, 3 years later. 

So, I can teach you how. Can you get enough cheap raw meat to feed her 5% of her body weight per day?


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## billiejw89

goathiker said:


> It is so easy its amazing. I feed prey model raw and my dogs are extremely healthy. My old min-pin was dying the day I started, today he's soft and healthy, 3 years later.
> 
> So, I can teach you how. Can you get enough cheap raw meat to feed her 5% of her body weight per day?


I think so, what place is best to buy it? We have a few meat processing places around here..I'm thinking that would be the cheapest way.


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## nicolemackenzie

Did they confirm a bladder stone? A radiograph is needed to do that.

I would caution doing just any diet if she actually has a stone you are trying to dissolve. ( surgery is more expensive than the food)

You'd want the food to encourage correct pH and the right balance of minerals and such.

Not saying you can't do that with raw, just keep that in mind as what works for one dog may not work for a dog with a specific medical problem and would need some adjusting.

I've heard good things about balanceit.com


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## billiejw89

nicolemackenzie said:


> Did they confirm a bladder stone? A radiograph is needed to do that.
> 
> I would caution doing just any diet if she actually has a stone you are trying to dissolve. ( surgery is more expensive than the food)
> 
> You'd want the food to encourage correct pH and the right balance of minerals and such.
> 
> Not saying you can't do that with raw, just keep that in mind as what works for one dog may not work for a dog with a specific medical problem and would need some adjusting.
> 
> I've heard good things about balanceit.com


The vet said her urine was "wall to wall crystals" The sample I brought in was possibly 4 hours old by the time I got it in there. (I was taking my sick kids to doctors as well) so I'm not sure if the time could have affected the sample.

He said he could "possibly feel a bump that may be in her bladder".

No radiograph was done on her.

She was put on a strong antibiotic and given the Hill's dog food for Urinary health, and told Distilled water only.

I've been feeding it to her, and she seems to like it, but it's very expensive.

I've also been adding a tsp. of apple cider vinegar to her drinking water.

He want's to see her back when her meds are done for another urinalysis and feel her belly again.

I've read not so good things about the Hill's food, but some say it's the best. 
All of this information can be so confusing.


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## nicolemackenzie

Urine will form crystals after that long especially a refrigerated sample even if the dog doesn't have crystals.

At the clinic I work at we would have either collected our own sample or asked you to bring a sample less than 30 minutes old. One hour max.

Distilled water only is stupid and my Drs have never told any client that.

What symptoms were you seeing that prompted the vet visit?

Did she have a painful abdomen on palpation? Blood in urine?

The food thing is very frustrating. We generally tell people to feed their dog a good they do well on. There are so many diets out there and as a business they are trying to sell it to you and convince you that there's is better. There is a general movement these days in human foods and thus dog and cat foods pushing for "natural" , "grain free" , or "raw." There is always going to be a fad. And there is always going to be someone on the internet that says bad things about one food or another.

The Rx diets are great for the problem they are indicated for. Grain and corn in of itself is not horrible in general or a reason not to use a food. Are some dogs sensitive to grains? Sure but it's the exception not the rule. Typically dogs have a sensitivity to the protein source.

You want to feed a food that gives your dog a healthy shiny coat and no vomiting or diarrhea.

In your case... I would question the validity of the urine results based on the age of the sample. She may very well need the antibiotic but the crystal result would need to be confirmed on a fresh sample. Definitely complete the course of antibiotics and make sure to recheck a urine sample at the end. Make sure that sample is hot off the press so you know you get accurate results.


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## billiejw89

I brought her into the vet because she seemed to be having a hard time peeing. She would want to go outside every 10 min. She would squat several times, sometimes staying in the squatting position for close to a minute. Her urine was just a dribble and it was dark in color. 

Sadie looked completely content while the vet was feeling her belly. The assistants even made comment that for a 4 month old puppy she was very well behaved. She sat there like a big girl through her whole exam and while I was talking to the vet. 

I wasn't able to get Sadie into the vet until the next morning after I brought her sample in, by that time it seemed her symptoms had gone away. She was urinating a normal amount and the color was good. 

I will make sure we get a fresh sample on her when we take her in. I'm starting to think urinary stones might be a misdiagnosis for her. I will definitely follow up with him when her meds are finished. 

Thank you for all the information it really helps.


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## nicolemackenzie

Sounds like legitimate reasons for the antibiotics. 

I would certainly do the recheck urine at the end of treatment.

She may or may not need a special diet. I think it's too early to tell. I'd wait before changing to raw or another diet for now. It's probably a two week course of antibiotics?


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## billiejw89

nicolemackenzie said:


> Sounds like legitimate reasons for the antibiotics.
> 
> I would certainly do the recheck urine at the end of treatment.
> 
> She may or may not need a special diet. I think it's too early to tell. I'd wait before changing to raw or another diet for now. It's probably a two week course of antibiotics?


Yes, she is on her 3rd day now. She takes a pill 2x a day.


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## nicolemackenzie

Keep us updated. Good luck


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## Riverside Fainters

I am just thinking that she's to young to have a stone yet. Never heard of a pup that young having a stone. My pup had 3 UTI's before he was 6 months old. He had difficulty peeing, dribbled pee, had to pee all the time.I am leaning towards a UTI.


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## billiejw89

Riverside Fainters said:


> I am just thinking that she's to young to have a stone yet. Never heard of a pup that young having a stone. My pup had 3 UTI's before he was 6 months old. He had difficulty peeing, dribbled pee, had to pee all the time.I am leaning towards a UTI.


I was thinking the same thing. I really feel it is just a UTI.


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## SalteyLove

How is the beautiful little Sadie? I hope she is peeing better! I would never guess her breed mix if you didn't know it for sure but she is just gorgeous!

Agreed that dog diets are very tough. I feed raw diet to my cat, but don't have the freezer space to go all the way with two dogs over 60lbs. I don't support diets of dry food/kibbles for any animal really, especially for males cats who are so prone to urinary issues any canned food is better than feeding them dry food.


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## billiejw89

SalteyLove said:


> How is the beautiful little Sadie? I hope she is peeing better! I would never guess her breed mix if you didn't know it for sure but she is just gorgeous!
> 
> Agreed that dog diets are very tough. I feed raw diet to my cat, but don't have the freezer space to go all the way with two dogs over 60lbs. I don't support diets of dry food/kibbles for any animal really, especially for males cats who are so prone to urinary issues any canned food is better than feeding them dry food.


Sadie seems to be feeling 100% better. I'm bringing her to the vet tomorrow for follow up. They are going to try and catch a fresh sample to make sure everything is looking good.

Sadie started out looking like a copy of her dad who is pure briard and his color is solid black. Now she is getting a ton of white hair coming through her coat. She looks like salt and pepper lol. I'm wondering what she will be like as an adult.

We went for a walk a few days ago and the poor little girl was introduced to the hot wire fence! She ran all the way back to the house and sat by the door, she was yelping the whole way.

I just kept snapping pictures lol. I think she has learned her lesson about sneaking into the neighbors cow pasture.


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## nicolemackenzie

Awe glad she's feeling better!

And yes cats should all eat canned verses dry!


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## billiejw89

Sadie wouldn't pee at the vet! :GAAH: They want me to bring her back in tomorrow. I don't think it will make a difference, for some reason she just won't pee there! 

I think Sadie is fine, they didn't even schedule her to see the vet. I thought he wanted to feel for stones. Her last dose of antibiotic is tonight. I am confident it was UTI. I will watch her closely though.


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## Riverside Fainters

They can do a cystocentisis and take urine from her that way. It's alot more sterile sample.


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## nicolemackenzie

Don't let her out to pee after tonight and take her right in for a morning collection. If your appointment is later then add water to her food to encourage her to drink and don't let her out to pee after breakfast.

You can collect a sample yourself into a very clean container. Wipe her vulva gently with a damp cloth to remove any debris first. Then use a ladle to catch a midstream sample right before you take it to the vet. You want it fresh.

They could do a cysto but it will be more costly.

Generally recheck urine samples are just with a technician. And then depending on your results they may want to do radiographs or an appointment.

If you want to see the vet just request that.

Based on your initial complaints I'd guess it's a uti as well. Especially if things resolved with antibiotics.


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## nicolemackenzie

How did it go?


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## billiejw89

nicolemackenzie said:


> How did it go?


I still have been unable to get her back to vet. Life has been hectic this past week. I've got a doe fixing to kid right now. Hopefuly I'll get her in this week.

She is still doing great though! Happy as could be.


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## nicolemackenzie

Oh good. Life does get busy!


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## billiejw89

Well......that beautiful briard coat is perfect for cleaning mysterious poop off the lawn!

There was a huge pile of some sort of poop that was real soft. A huge pile. I saw it but kept on doing the chores, then I see sadie rolling in it! She had it all in her neck/collar and her ears. 

I had to get a huge bucket of water and bring it out and get as much as I could off then she went straight in for a bath.

That was not how I wanted to start my morning, I hadn't even had my coffee yet.....

At least Sadie will smell nice once she dries.


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## Karen

billiejw89 said:


> Well......that beautiful briard coat is perfect for cleaning mysterious poop off the lawn!
> 
> There was a huge pile of some sort of poop that was real soft. A huge pile. I saw it but kept on doing the chores, then I see sadie rolling in it! She had it all in her neck/collar and her ears.
> 
> I had to get a huge bucket of water and bring it out and get as much as I could off then she went straight in for a bath.
> 
> That was not how I wanted to start my morning, I hadn't even had my coffee yet.....
> 
> At least Sadie will smell nice once she dries.


Oh, what doggie delight that roll must have been! Was she okay with the b*a*t*h?


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## billiejw89

Karen said:


> Oh, what doggie delight that roll must have been! Was she okay with the b*a*t*h?


For the most part she was ok, she seems to love water. I think she knew she did something bad though lol she was dramatic at times.


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## Karen

billiejw89 said:


> For the most part she was ok, she seems to love water. I think she knew she did something bad though lol she was dramatic at times.


That's so the Border Collie side ... the drama pup that is!


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## billiejw89

Sadie stays outside all day on her own now. She loves it, I can't get her to come inside, except for at bed time. My chickens have been free ranging, and she has left them alone! I had to correct her a few times the first day, she hasn't showed interest in them since. She likes to lay in the lawn next to the goat pen on my sons scooter, I don't know why but that is where she likes to be. She stays on our property, she won't follow me across the road to check the mail. She sits and waits for me under our tree.


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## ksalvagno

Cute!


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## nicolemackenzie

Is she having any more urinary issues? Were you able to recheck a urine and maybe get the all clear to switch to a regular food?


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## billiejw89

yeah I took her to a different vet, they did a sample and she was good. She hasn't had anymore symptoms. We have been feeding her blue buffalo now


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## nicolemackenzie

Oh good. Glad to hear.


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## billiejw89

Sadie is doing great! Her first birthday is coming up Oct. 18th. She weighs 65lbs!
She is learning more each day. We had a few chicken chasing incidents but I think we are good now. She is outside with them and she ignors them mostly. I figured out she likes to chase when my son is trying to catch one. I think she may be trying to help him. This morning she was barking, but not like she saw someone or something, it was different. i went out to see what was going on. The lid came off our outdoor brooder box and all of our 30+, month old chicks were out. She was just letting me know! I'm so proud of her. I know how tempting it might have been for her but she left them alone and alerted me. She is such a good girl!


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## SalteyLove

AND she is downright gorgeous! You didn't mention that! So happy to hear of her recent successes!


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## ksalvagno

She sure is a pretty girl!


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## SingingBullRanch

Have you looked at the Briard Club of America's website? Here is the link if you haven't: http://briardclubofamerica.org/bca/ 
They are still used for herding, but like most herding breeds, have fallen by the wayside in favor of the Border Collies. If you go to the Breed Information tab and then look on the left side under Herding Description, it gives good information on the breed and its herding style.

She is a cutie for sure and looks very Briard like!


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## billiejw89

SingingBullRanch said:


> Have you looked at the Briard Club of America's website? Here is the link if you haven't: http://briardclubofamerica.org/bca/
> They are still used for herding, but like most herding breeds, have fallen by the wayside in favor of the Border Collies. If you go to the Breed Information tab and then look on the left side under Herding Description, it gives good information on the breed and its herding style.
> 
> She is a cutie for sure and looks very Briard like!


Thank you, really good info there.
Sadie has been a great farm dog. I don't think I would let her live with the animals 24/7 but she does good with them. 
She turned 1 on October 18th. She got a peanut butter applesauce cupcake and a new squeaky toy that she loves.
That same day I was watching out the window at the chicks free ranging in the yard. Sadie ran towards them barking, I thought she was barking at them but there was a small hawk in the cherry tree above them. She chased that thing through the orchard and off the property. I was amazed. That was the first time I saw her protecting. I don't worry so much about predatory birds. Sadie keeps them chased off. 
We have a goat that likes to jump the fence and eat on the hay bale. Sadie will bark to let me know when there has been an escape. 
When I'm putting the chickens up for the night she tries to herd them in. 
She is learning so much and she is so smart. The kids think it's amazing that she plays fetch with them. She will "sit" "high 5" "Drop it" "stay" "come" and she is learning "catch it" I can't wait to see how she will be in another year. I'm so glad we got her.


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## nicolemackenzie

She's a beauty!


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## billiejw89

Sadie chased off some coyotes for the first time last night. She did a good job doing her really mean growling bark. She chased them through the orchard, but it seemed every few hours they came back..I think there are two of them maybe three. they were near the chicken house one time, and then by our garbage bin. I will be hauling garbage to the dump today. I am so proud of Sadie but I'm wondering if she may need a partner? I don't want them coming back again and again. Would a second dog be a good idea?


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## SalteyLove

Were they making a racket or were they silently lurking?

Breeding season for coyotes is just beginning in my part of the U.S. and will continue through January - this means a lot of late night noise as they defend territory and breeding rights. Boy do they make some awful noises when there is an territory dispute.

If they were really hunting, they would have been silent and spread out, if they were close together and noisy then it was more of social event of some sort.


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## billiejw89

In the early evening I could hear them yipping up on the hill. But when I saw them they were very silent. Only sound was Sadie barking. One ran off from the south side of the house and another was at the west. The froze and stared at me for a minute and I yelled at them and that's when Sadie chased them


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## billiejw89

They were back again this morning right before I took my kids out to wait for the bus... 3 of them. Very quietly sneaking around the chicken coop. Sadie ran them off. 
We weren't able to get a shot at them. Sadie has an appointment on Friday for her Rabies shot. My 8yo DD is very concerned after watching Old Yeller and demanded we take her in lol it's always been in the plan but haven't got around to doing it since she turned 1 in october.


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## SalteyLove

As for getting a 2nd dog... it really depends on the coyotes in you area. Here they get run off by our dog all the time and never gang up & attack back. But I'm usually not too far behind in the UTV. 

It's likely this year's pups that are now on their own and trying to figure out the best food sources. You free range your poultry during the day and Sadie stays out with them?


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## billiejw89

SalteyLove said:


> As for getting a 2nd dog... it really depends on the coyotes in you area. Here they get run off by our dog all the time and never gang up & attack back. But I'm usually not too far behind in the UTV.
> 
> It's likely this year's pups that are now on their own and trying to figure out the best food sources. You free range your poultry during the day and Sadie stays out with them?


Yes the chickens free range with Sadie during the day and get closed up in the coop at night. 
I wish they would stop coming around because we got a few does due here in the next few weeks. Extra worry on top of usual kidding season worry. Sadie has been good at cutting their visits short though.


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## SingingBullRanch

*Coyotes*

I would be pretty cautious with the coyotes. They can and will kill a dog or cause serious damage. They may also lure her out and gang up on her. My Rat Terriers have tangled with them and so far, no serious damage, only a few bite wounds. But I have been lucky. If coyotes are a problem, I would recommend another dog, preferably an LGD breed. Some of the working herding breeds can be a good partner/backup, such as an English Shepherd, Farm Collie or maybe one of the Cur breeds, but keep in mind that they are not an LGD. Or build better fences, although that can get pretty expensive.

I enjoy your updates! Sounds like she is working out to be a really nice farm dog!


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## billiejw89

SingingBullRanch said:


> I would be pretty cautious with the coyotes. They can and will kill a dog or cause serious damage. They may also lure her out and gang up on her. My Rat Terriers have tangled with them and so far, no serious damage, only a few bite wounds. But I have been lucky. If coyotes are a problem, I would recommend another dog, preferably an LGD breed. Some of the working herding breeds can be a good partner/backup, such as an English Shepherd, Farm Collie or maybe one of the Cur breeds, but keep in mind that they are not an LGD. Or build better fences, although that can get pretty expensive.
> 
> I enjoy your updates! Sounds like she is working out to be a really nice farm dog!


Thanks! 
We are leaning towards getting a male LGD. It will have to wait until late summer/fall though (hopefully a little sooner) We want Sadie to have a little more training before we introduce a puppy. We will be keeping watch on her. I am worried about the luring as well. I am glad that so far when she sees them (that I know of) she comes to the house to alert me, and then goes after them.Our property has no fence except the goat and chicken pens. We are completely redoing the goat pen in the spring so we will make sure to make it extra strong.


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## SingingBullRanch

You might be able to locate an older LGD from a rescue. Some of them actually have experience and have become available because the owners are selling off their livestock. You may look at an LGD rescue also. I was just reading something somewhere that was saying that even the LGDs that are in rescues, even without previous experience, or unknown experience, have turned out to be good guard dogs. Maybe it was in my Goat Rancher magazine. Hmm...can't remember!

But anyway, something to think about. Just keep a close watch on her. Sounds like she is doing a great job so far!


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## billiejw89

SingingBullRanch said:


> You might be able to locate an older LGD from a rescue. Some of them actually have experience and have become available because the owners are selling off their livestock. You may look at an LGD rescue also. I was just reading something somewhere that was saying that even the LGDs that are in rescues, even without previous experience, or unknown experience, have turned out to be good guard dogs. Maybe it was in my Goat Rancher magazine. Hmm...can't remember!
> 
> But anyway, something to think about. Just keep a close watch on her. Sounds like she is doing a great job so far!


i will be on the lookout. Most shelters around here require that these dogs go to pet homes only and must be kept in the house they specifically say they aren't for working. It makes me feel sad that they aren't allowed to do what they love! Maybe we will be lucky to find something.


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## billiejw89

Sadie got her pretty heart shaped rabies tag! She did great! We got her parvo/distemper vac as well. She did not want to go in the vet, I had to carry her through the door. But once we got in she sat down next to me in the waiting room and was very calm the whole time. Even when a cat came in. She sat on the exam table and let the vet do all he needed to do. She was eager to get back to the truck though! She's back outside keeping an eye on everything!


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## ksalvagno

Glad she did well.


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## billiejw89

Coyotes are back again tonight.. I haven't got much sleep. Every 20 minutes or so Sadie starts barking. I went out to check and could see two sets of glowing eyes in the orchard. One ran off, but the other didn't. It actually came closer to Sadie and made these weird jumping moves. I yelled at it and it still wouldn't run off. We fired a shot (missed) and it finally ran off. She's outside barking still. I can't see anything.


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## SingingBullRanch

It is so darn sad that animal rights activists or those who really think they are "doing the right thing" have NO clue about dogs. Especially working dogs! For instance, my English Shepherd *prefers *to be outside, even when I invite him in. But according to some people, that is beyond horrid and a crime. Sigh.....

Anyway, there are rescues throughout the county. I didn't find one specifically in your area, but if you search on Google for LGD rescue or your preferred breed rescue, you might be able to find something without having to deal with the do gooders at your local shelters. (Makes me wonder how they think these dogs survived for hundreds of years just fine without being indoors or do they even have any understanding whatsoever of their job??) Anyway, here is a link that will get you started: http://www.anatoliandog.org/lgdr-poc.htm

Good luck!


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## billiejw89

SingingBullRanch said:


> It is so darn sad that animal rights activists or those who really think they are "doing the right thing" have NO clue about dogs. Especially working dogs! For instance, my English Shepherd *prefers *to be outside, even when I invite him in. But according to some people, that is beyond horrid and a crime. Sigh.....
> 
> Anyway, there are rescues throughout the county. I didn't find one specifically in your area, but if you search on Google for LGD rescue or your preferred breed rescue, you might be able to find something without having to deal with the do gooders at your local shelters. (Makes me wonder how they think these dogs survived for hundreds of years just fine without being indoors or do they even have any understanding whatsoever of their job??) Anyway, here is a link that will get you started: http://www.anatoliandog.org/lgdr-poc.htm
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks I'll check it out. So far I've found a few that ended up in the shelter because they do not mix well with chickens... so the search continues!


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## Goatzrule

There was a LGD posted on TGS in the other animal sale pag im not sure if you saw it yet, I havent read it but itd be something to check out


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## billiejw89

I think we finally found our pup! Someone is doing a trade with us, doelings for a male pup. They are doing a planned breeding in feb. so we should have a pup sometime in early summer! They are pyrenees! We are very excited!

My sister was over the other night with her dog, at nightfall the coyotes came. Sadie and Nikki barked as Sadie chased after them. They disappeared and haven't returned yet (knock on wood). I think the two dog team sends a stronger message!


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## SalteyLove

Do you have any friends with a couple male dogs they can bring over to mark the property up a bit to help give those coyotes more of a signal? Supposedly male humans peeing around the area can help too :smile:

Weird jumping moves makes me think again that these are young impressionable coyotes that have just been kicked out from the breeding pair the past few months and are looking for easy meals & territory. Would Sadie actually attack if she could catch them? 

Congrats on the Pyrenees puppy trade!


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## nicolemackenzie

They've been persistent... scary. Can someone wait outside in a hunting stand?


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## billiejw89

SalteyLove said:


> Do you have any friends with a couple male dogs they can bring over to mark the property up a bit to help give those coyotes more of a signal? Supposedly male humans peeing around the area can help too :smile:
> 
> Weird jumping moves makes me think again that these are young impressionable coyotes that have just been kicked out from the breeding pair the past few months and are looking for easy meals & territory. Would Sadie actually attack if she could catch them?
> 
> Congrats on the Pyrenees puppy trade!


Everyone I know has female dogs. I'm sure my sons wouldn't mind marking the territory lol

I'm not sure if Sadie would attack, she sounds very scary with a growling bark and runs straight for them. I don't know how far she would actually go. When the coyote was here that wouldn't go away she would charge at it bark/growl and then return to me over and over again.


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## billiejw89

nicolemackenzie said:


> They've been persistent... scary. Can someone wait outside in a hunting stand?


I've been thinking of waiting outside somewhere. It's been super cold with high winds the past week, but it's warming up now. The last few nights have been dead quite.


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## Goatzrule

Do you have any electric fence you could put up or barb wire?


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## billiejw89

Goatzrule said:


> Do you have any electric fence you could put up or barb wire?


no we don't and any fencing supplies won't be in our budget until spring. We had a fresh snow last night I walked around the property and there are no signs of coyotes coming through. I'm praying they just stay away but I'm still on high alert. I'm glad I am a light sleeper and my bedroom is right next to the yard and where Sadie is.


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## Goatzrule

Do you have any solar panel light, they are cheaper. We had one at my last house at night it detects movement and turns on to scare anything away


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## billiejw89

Goatzrule said:


> Do you have any solar panel light, they are cheaper. We had one at my last house at night it detects movement and turns on to scare anything away


I don't but I will look into them. I have seen them advertised but wasn't sure how well they work.

I heard coyotes in the distance as I was feeding this morning...
We have a few does that may kid as early as next week, their pens are secure but I don't want to take any chances.


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## Goatzrule

I loved ours it lasted a couple years, ran, shine, sleet, hail, snow. This is the one I used there are other cheaper ones but you should try it
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...ahUKEwibicuE5YXRAhWp5IMKHTU-DrgQwg8ILg&adurl=


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## Goatzrule

There are some cheaper ones mine always scared anything off


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## billiejw89

Goatzrule said:


> There are some cheaper ones mine always scared anything off


Thank you for sharing those look perfect, and the price is good too


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## Goatzrule

Even if it only works until you can get the other puppy. Good luck


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## billiejw89

Here are the parents of our future pup the first is the mom and the 2nd is the dad.


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## SingingBullRanch

Congratulations on your upcoming LGD pup! There is a lot of information on raising an LGD properly online and a couple of really good books. Just keep in mind that it is going to take him awhile to mature to working dog level.

Looking forward to seeing pictures!


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## billiejw89

SingingBullRanch said:


> Congratulations on your upcoming LGD pup! There is a lot of information on raising an LGD properly online and a couple of really good books. Just keep in mind that it is going to take him awhile to mature to working dog level.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing pictures!


Thank you, I will be reading up all I can. I am glad we have a little while before he's here so I can sharpen up Sadie's training as well. I didn't want a puppy to set her back. She will be 4 months shy of 2 years when we bring him home.


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## SingingBullRanch

The two books that have been recommended to me are _Livestock Protection Dogs_ 2nd Edition, by Orysia Dawydiak and David Sims, and _Livestock Guardians: Using Dogs, Donkeys & Llamas to Protect Your Herd_ by Janet Vorwald Dohner.

Good luck!


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## billiejw89

Wow! I guess I should update, it's been awhile. Sadie is doing great! She is awesome with all of the farm animals. As you can see she likes to sleep on the old golf cart. She doesn't mind the cats. She breaks up chickens fights in an instant. She eats her evening meal with our one eyed buff polish rooster King Kong. She keeps the wild critters away from the house. 
I really see her herding instincts kick in with the serama chickens. She thinks they are suppose to be in their pen. Because that is where they usually are. Occasionally one will get out, she will follow it until it gets back in. She is the best dog! I love her to pieces.

We never added a 2nd dog. I had a swap planned out to get a pup over the summer but their dog never went into heat so no pup. 
We had an attack a few weeks ago. It's hard to talk about. We believe it was a cougar and it killed our buck Dylan. The buck pen was located in the back pasture where Sadie does not go. I've since moved our other 2 bucks to a new location. We are once again hoping to find a 2nd dog. One that can stay with the goats in the pasture.


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## ksalvagno

Glad she is working out well. She's a cutie!


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## Goatzrule

Adorable, what a good dog


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## billiejw89

The cats, Sadie and King Kong the Rooster eating...fruit loops the kiddos thought they needed. 
I love how everyone gets along so well. 
Sadie has ZERO percent food aggression lol


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