# Need Opinions on a tough decision.....



## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

I have a pygmy FF that was supposed to be due on February 13th (day 150) she still has not given birth and shows no signs of eminent birth at the moment. She will be one year old on the 28th of this month. But, she is very small for her age. So, I called my vet today to get a price list and here is what they are:

$85 for an x-ray
$150 to induce labor
$400 for a c-section

My question to you guys is, what should I do? Does she look close enough that I dont have to spend the money for a vet visit? Should I quit worrying so much and let nature take its course? Or, should I spend the money to have a vet do something?

Her ligaments are tight but really deep down. Her udder is small and doesnt look like they normally do when they are close to kidding. She had discharge about 1 months ago but very little and she is pretty poofy back there. 
Here are some pics, they ar ethe best I could get:









































Please remember that this is her first kidding!

Thank you all for your opinions!
CJ


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Hmm, this is a tough one. Look at her hip width, could she fit a baby through there?? That would be my main question. If she can I would probably induce labor. C-sections can be really rough on them. Good luck, and I'm sure someone with more experience can chime in here soon...


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

After looking at these pics, I noticed that it looked like she actually had discharge! So I ran back down to the barn to see and its actually dried, old discharge. Sorry for the illusion.

CJ


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Good luck, I would only induce if she was showing signs of labor and I would only opt for a c-section if she was in full labor and not progressing and I couldn't pull the kid myself.


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## K-Ro (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm with SGM on this. My thoughts are let nature take it's course and see what happens, she might not need any help.

Are you positive of the breeding date? Could it have been later?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

I am 99% sure of her due date. We did have 2 girls go into heat at the same time and there is a very slim chance that I may have entered that date into the wrong does spreadsheet. Make sense? But that is a very very slim chance.

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if she isn't in distress I wouldn't induce labor or pay for the c-section as you may end up with a dead doe and kids who are not fully formed.

If you are really worried, get the x -ray done to see how far along the kids are and if they are positioned right for delivery. Then you will know if a c-section might be necessary.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

An ultrasound might be a good idea and id probably chieper than the x-ray. :?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

The ultrasound was 75 but the vet said it would be better to do an xray because he would be able to tell if the pelvis was to small to pass the babys. He said the ultrasound would just tell me if the babies were there and alive.

This morning, it seemed like her ligaments were softer (gosh I hope im not just hopeful) I had to go to school today and my parents had to work so hopefully she will either be fine on her own (if her ligaments disappeare and she goes into labor) or wait till I get home. 

CJ

PS I still want to get somemore opinions from different people.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Hopefully she has them without a problem. If she still doesn't have them I would opt for an X-ray.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Can you guys say anything about how her pictures look? does she look ready? what about her hips?

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Does her tail usually stick out like that?


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Her tail looks normal to me.... CJ, you have some newborn kids, just hold them up by her and see if you think they could fit or not.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

I have had a Nigerian doeling that I purchased turn out to be bred and she kidded with my help at 10 mo. She was only 30 lbs when she kidded and tiny. She went into labor just like everyone else and pushed with no progress so I checked and kid was head first no legs so I had to go in and find a leg which was hard as she was small but I finally did it with the tips of my fingers and the kid came out fine weighing 5lbs. 

If this doe were here I would let nature take it's course as she doesn't look no where near ready to me. I would let her go in labor and if after 30 min of pushing and I mean really pushing I would go in and check things out and would help her out if needed. I would never schedule a c-section just incase. I personally wouldn't stress any of my does with x-rays or ultrasounds. Either she can have them or she can't and you will have time to get her to a vet for a c-section to save her life. You might not be able to save kids in a emergency section but the doe would have a chance. JMO.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Muddy Creek Farm said:


> Her tail looks normal to me.... CJ, you have some newborn kids, just hold them up by her and see if you think they could fit or not.


You are a SMART COOKIE!!! I didnt even think of that! I will do that as soo as I get home. Unfortunately, because I am at school, they block the pictures so I cant really tell you if her tail usually sticks out until I can look at the pictures again. There is another picture of her on the Goat Does page on my website, maybe that will give you guys a better reference?

http://www.FinePygmyPals.com
CJ


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

It looks the same to me in both photos. I have my moments of smartness :greengrin:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

BTW that picture was taken 2-3 weeks ago (the one on my website that is.)


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Yeah, her tail is always sticking out like that, though its a bit more "twisted" to the side than usual in those pictures.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok just checking. Somtimes when they hold them out like that it means their ligaments are gone.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Each goat's tails have different personalities! I have some goats who hold them lower, some who hold them high and others who's tails go flat onto their back (and Robin has a broken tail which looks really funny)


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

LOL! I had heard that you can tell a goats position in the herd by how high they hold there tails.

I just got backf rom the barn and guess what!! HER LIGS ARE ALMOST GONE!!!! They are extremely hard to find and I could only feel them when she pushed on my hand or squirmed in a certain way! For the past few days, her ligaments will be really soft and then a couple hours later be full again so who knows? They may harden back up, I hope not thoug!!! ray: 

Ill be going back down to the barn in 2 hours to check on her and put her in the birthing pen for the night. :coffee2: Send the love our way!!!!

CJ


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh I hope she does kid! Ginger's ligs have been on and off too, :sigh:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats great to hear


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Any news??


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Heres the news!!!!! NOTHING...... :tears: I thought for sure if it wasnt last night it would be today but....nope! I can feel one ligament and not the other and the baby(s) are moving around a whole bunch (probably getting into position). She has no discharge, is acting fairly normal. The baby(s) have dropped tho! If I put my hand right in front of her udder, I can feel a baby there. I am starting to think there maybe 2 in there because, while I can feel a baby underneath next to her udder, I will get kicked at the top of her belly closer to her head.

I had a dream last night that her and my other doe went into labor at the same time! Peanut had 2 and Cinna had 5!!! 

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well at least you know she is progressing


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

I just go t home from school and went to check on her....her ligaments are FULL!! :veryangry: 

I was so depressed! :tears: :sigh:


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Goats can be so frustrating :hair: !


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

They ar eprety much gone again tonight and my other doe (Cinna) has really really soft ligs too. I think Ill put them both in birthing pen tonight.

Im going back down in 2 hours, Ill let you guys know iof anything is different.
CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

naughty doe!!! :sigh: 

Well is she still dropped?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

StaceyRoop said:


> naughty doe!!! :sigh:
> 
> Well is she still dropped?


IVE BEEN SAYING SHES DROPPED FOR LIKE 2 WEEKS NOW!!!! :veryangry: :? lol. But no, she doesnt look much different than last night. Im just not sure why I can feel a baby if I do a gentle "bump test" on her. Shouldnt that mean that the baby(s) are entering the birth cannal which should stimulate her to go into labor?

I have to work this weekend and it will just be my mom here. Im not sure she is going to be able to handle an over due girl and a girl with a litter in there! (Between you and me.....I think I feel a little of the horrible flu everyuone is getting coming on..... :angel2: )

CJ


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

CJ,I'm sorry your not feeling well.I'm sure your mom will do fine and theres always the thread with emergency kidding #'s.You could always give them to your mom.


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

goatnutty said:


> CJ,I'm sorry your not feeling well.I'm sure your mom will do fine and theres always the thread with emergency kidding #'s.You could always give them to your mom.


Thank you for your concern but I was lying about being sick...lol. I was saying I was going to call in to the boss and take the weekend off.

BUT guess what!!!!! CINNA HAS NO LIGAMENTS!!! I went down to the barn at 6:30pm....ligs were barely there. went down at 10:00 pm. GONE! She has been in the birthing pen all night with a camera on her.

CJ


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well thats great! She better kid this time! hehe


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Any progress?? :?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

A little bit of white discharge. Ligs are soft but not gone and she is acting a little funny. I went to work  and Im at lunch now so I will post again later.

XCJ


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

NO LIGS!!!!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

ALLRIGHT!!! KEEP US POSTED AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!! :girl: :girl:


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Still nothing this morning. She still has no ligs and is talking A LOT! And stretching a lot. We will see!!!! 

CJ


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

Still no baby yet. She is out grazing with the others.

cj


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Well I hope she goes for you soon


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Anymore news?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

How is she doing today?


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## cjpup (Dec 1, 2007)

I posted a new thread for an update entitled A HORRIBLE end to our kidding season.......

cj


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