# Help!! Retained pkacenta?? Possible retained kid?



## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

In all my years of breeding goats this is a first for me. Princes had an unassisted birth last night around 5-6 pm, little Doeling. Part of placenta hanging out and still had a big stomach so I figured might be another one in there, plus the Doeling was small enough to have a twin or triplet. 
I got the doeling to nurse well but noticed she was walking on her front ankles. 

After watching a few hours, still no other baby from Princess and no dropped placenta. I gave baby about 200mcg Selenium and Vit E and D and Princess got about 700 MCG Selenium with D and E since I read Selenium deficiency can lead to retained placenta. We are in Colorado which isn't supposed to be deficient, she's had free access to mineral block, has gotten some fresh grass past few weeks as its coming up slowly, and was getting goat chow a few months ago until I dried her up and then she got a little bit last week. Dewormed her last week or week before- days are muddling. 

I milked her out after baby nursed as much as i could. I gloved up last night and went in, the furthest was halfway up my forearm, didnt feel any kids just soft balls from the placenta my guess. She had contractions every time I was in there. Tried bumping didn't feel anything. But she still looks pregnant...

Sorry this is getting long... This morning she ate about 3/4 head of garlic, nibbled a little hay l, let baby nurse but Princess is not super perky. Placenta still hanging out, its been about 16 hours. I read some does drop within 24 hours and some extreme cases within a few days. Her vulva is really swollen this morning. No bad smelling discharge yet, and I gave her 5000 mg buffered Vit C last night before I went back to the house (around 1 am). 

Is she just bloated or in super good shape to still look pregnant? Or do you think there's a retained kid? How far up can I manually palpate? I've never had to do that before and don't want to do damage. 

Baby is still walking on ankles this morning. I will give one more does of Selenium and see what happens. 

Hoping this passes quickly. Planning to call a vet for advice.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd talk to the vet. You probably can't go in anymore. She may need to be flushed. At least some oxytocin but that needs to happen very soon. Be careful how much selenium you give.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Have you bumped her belly? Stand behind her, reach your arms around and place your hands in front of the udder and bounce her belly gently up and down. If there's another kid in there you should feel something hard bounce back. Hopefully there's not another kid and she's just taking her time dropping the placenta.


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## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

I did bump and felt nothing. Even felt when she laid down and still can't feel anything. Her abdomen looks less large than this morning, kind of like it dropped down. 

She has had a few mild contractions in the last hour. So I'm giving red raspberry leaf and waiting. I have a vet appt set for later in the day if nothing changes by then.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Loose minerals are better than blocks, they can't get what need from the blocks.


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## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

I will probably do that- I did in the past but just bought the block because the goats and horses share pasture. 

Update- vet did manual palpation and didn't feel any other kids. Gave her a shot of oxytocin. He was more concerned that my family drinks raw milk than the goats placenta (I'm not wanting to open a can of worms, I know how heated and controversial an issue it is.) So just waiting for her to drop placenta. 

And over the day I fed her lots of handfuls of red raspberry leaf dried. And a head of garlic. The hour before and at the vet she had more contractions than she's had all day and the placenta progressed out further than it had all day- I really think the raspberry did that. She had no fever. Vet said placenta retention is not much worry in ruminants, its more of a worry in horses.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

How is your doe now Michelle? I hope she is fine. We had one I feared about retention, but it did eventually come out. Ours was induced, and kidded 6 days early (toxemia). I think it took around 36 hours! Scared me so badly because I feared it would make her sick or something. We gave it time. Then talked with some very good friends, and tied some light weight items on it to help weigh it down without being too heavy and pulling the placenta out/breaking it. We gave her calcium and oxytocin and this seemed to do the trick.


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## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks for asking- I was planning to post an update. I brought her home and let her graze a little then put her back in the barn with baby to keep noise and stress from the other goats down. Later in the evening when I went to check on her - praise the Lord! She dropped her placenta and had eaten the whole thing because it was nowhere in sight. Baby is also walking better, still sometimes folding over onto her ankles, but much stronger and walking more normally on her hooves. 

So, the oxytocin did its job but I really think if I had more time before the appointment or waited a little longer the raspberry was doing the job well. Either way I'm glad its out. Poor girl is so swollen in her vulva and she was in a good amount of pain when the vet checked her. Basically we both had the same conclusion so I feel better about my palpation skills and assessment.

That's an interesting idea about the weight on the placenta. What kinds of things did you use? 

After this experience I think I learned that if I can't palpate another kid, the doe doesn't have a fever, is eating and seems to be alright I will wait longer before worrying. It was a good learning experienxe- tucking it in my toolbox of goat keeping knowledge. 

Aldo learned that looks can be deceiving. I was sure she at least had twins, but she only dropped a single small sized doeling. 

So thank the Lord, all is well in the barn tonight...


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## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

Btw, is there a way to get oxytocin to keep on hand? The vet was adamant that he would not give me oxy until he checked her. During the appointment when he found out I'm a nurse he seemed to change his opinion of me to more educated than he thought. 

I guess I could maybe get some from my midwife but I don't think she can do that either.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Wash her backside, pat it dry and put Preperation H ointment on her. It will reduce the swelling.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she dropped her afterbirth. 

Oxytocin I keep in the refrigerator. I buy a whole bottle of it.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I've come to realize that "fatness" after delivery has little or no relation to whether there's another kid inside. Some does drink so much water before, during, and after delivery that they swell up like a balloon for several days afterwards. I think some may retain water as well, much like some pregnant women. 

I'm glad to hear your doe is fine and passed the afterbirth. We had a teeny tiny singleton buckling last year ourselves, and I was just convinced the doe had to have another hiding in there because he was so small and she was still so big, but he was the only one.


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## anawhitfield (Jun 9, 2013)

I believe the oxytocin, like Luthalyse used to induce labor or to help expel the after-birth have a very short expiration date. My vet would only give me one or two shots to keep on hand because he said they would expire before i would need them again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have had no issues having a big bottle of it. And use it as needed. 

The vets have to say that, so they do not get in trouble.
A lot of companies, vets will say for many meds, after opening use the whole thing, or throw it out, or use it by the expiration date, with some meds it is not true and works the same weeks or months later. It doesn't pertain to all meds mind you, and needs to be looked at for each situation of the med, color or how it was stored.


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## mbodjanac (Apr 11, 2011)

Where do you buy it? Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions. Little one and mams are doing well. :fireworks:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You can order it through a vet. It is costly but so worth it.


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