# Need some major advice



## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, so a close freind of mine went out and bought an AWSOME buck. I mean absolutly awsome! He has several daughters and sons that are either MCH or close to their MCH. The farm where he came from is a VERY well known farm and I bet almost everyone has a little bit of this farm in their bloodlines. I will not say the name nor will I say who the owner is lol. We just need to know what to do. Ok here is what happened. She has had him for a couple of months now, he is about 4 or 5 I dont remember. Well we were out looking at him trying to figure out who to breed him to who. Well a cat came bouncing around the side of the barn and it startled the buck........all four legs locked up and he went running ike he couldent bend his knees.......we both looked at each other and went oh S**T!!! :shocked: What was that? So we startled him again, and the same thing happened. His back legs are the worse and his from isent so bad..... is anyone else thinking what I am thinking or is there a perfectly good explanation of this??? His tattoos all match and he is definently the buck. He has been shown many times and done very well. What should she do!!???


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Fainter in him?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I am guessing that you are talking about mytonisism in a Nigerian, is that correct?


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Yeah that is what we are thinking is fainter...... is there anything else that can cause that? Like some sort of deficiancy? I mean he has never fallen over and never actually fainted, he just locks up. Could it be when he tries to run his joints are messed up??


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Well, older fainter's figure out how to stay standing when their muscles lock up, or that is what I have read. 

Are you sure this is the buck? Tattoo's can easily be put in another goats ear. Also, if he dosen't faint in the show ring then there wouldn't be a reason for him to be kicked out of the ring and disqualified.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I would think that ethically, this would be a huge issue to not only the owner, but to anything that this guy bred.

I have not heard of anything causing this other then somewhere having mytonic in them. I personally would not be breeding this buck, as it is taking the purity of the breed out for registered Nigerians


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Oh yeah this is defiently the same goat, there is no doubt about it! I just typed in his name in the search field and his name popped up everywhere....... how did these people not notice this!!! Seriously the second he is startled or you try to catch him he locks up and kinda walks all pegg legged and sometimes come to a complete halt... but never has fallen over. Seriously how can you not notice it lol. The owner is pretty pissed off, but she dosent want to cause an uproar and have a bunch of people pissed off at her, plus she spent over $500 on him. Im telling you, some of the top breeders here in california have him all over their pedigrees. If she causes an uproar about it she is afraid there are gonna be many people pissed off at her...... SHould she keep this hush hush? especially since the big wiggs never said anything?


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## badnewsboers (May 9, 2008)

Sadly, this sort of thing happens all the time. For instance there's a big controversy in the Boer goat world for instance where a major breeder changed the pedigree of some goats after they were sold-and refused to let the new owner run a DNA test.

If it was me I'd be talking to the breeder of that animal. It is not ethical to let that sort of deception go on if it turns out he is not pure Nigi. Or perhaps they might have another explanation for it-maybe a previous injury or something.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I will talk to her and see what she wants to do. Maybe we could just call the breeder and see what they have to say


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you guys noticed the locking up ....one or more of the offspring..may to....then the buyers will have doubt....and may come back to the breeder(your friend) asking questions.....I would confront the breeder..ask questions ...tell them what is happening with the buck ....if any doubt.....DNA will definitely tell the tale ...on that bucks sire and dam...if the breeder will not let you get their DNA... then you know that buck is in question(red flag).... if that breeder is caught cheating ...by the association... then that breeder... I believe will be banned permanently....from that association...........it is a tough call...  :hug:


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## HollowbeadRanch (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree with Badnewboers. Personally, I would contact the breeder to see if they knew about what is going on with him and if there is any explanation for it. If they have no clue what you are talking about then I would ask that they come out to your farm to see it for themselves. If it turns out there IS something fishy going on and they can't come up with a logical explanation then I might would look at getting a refund or something if that is possible :shrug: I mean if I paid $500+ for a Buck and then couldn't use him because of a previously existing defect... then I would be majorly ticked as well! Of course this is all IMO :thumbup: 

Let us know what you decide and how it turns out!


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

All of my nigerians when startled run just like a deer. I would also do some research and find out if the breeder ever owned any fainters. This condition can and does happen in other breeds from what I have read but is a major fault in anything other than a fainter. I personally would not breed with this animal and would be contacting the breeder and finding out what she is willing to do about it.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

My 2 cents here.....Registered PB Fullflooded Nigerioan Dwarf Right?


And he isn't a kid.......myotonia doesn't just "show up"......he gets stiff legged when he's spooked, right? 

I have seen all of my goats as well as my moms Toggs and Boers freeze and then bounce away stifflegged when they have been spooked.....like a white tail deer would. Ever spook a deer? Sorry if I sound too questioning on the matter, but if his name is allover the registries, why would the breeder "lie" about his heritage? :shrug:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok so I called the previous owner and she said that the only thing she ever noticed was when he was layingdown and would get up he would be stiff in the front legs. I asked if he had ever been startled and she said no. He is not a kid he was born 3/10/04 so he just turned 5. I left a message for the owner before that and am waiting for a call back. And then I wrote an email to the breeder. My freind was just too nervous and was afraid of pissing people off so I told her I would do it for her. I just played dumb and was like why is he doing this??? lol. I know that it dosent just show up, he is such a laid back goat that I never really ever see him get starttled. I personally own a daughter out of him and she is a flighty scary thing, constantly scared at everything even her own shadown and not once has she ever stiffened, she looks like a deer bouncing away. I went to check his tattoo again and it is there and nice and clear, his pictures and marks match. When I went to check his tat Ichased him and he just about fell on his face he stiffened so much. I am thinking there is something fishy but Im not too sure what it is yet. Hopefully the breeder gets back to me and lets me know.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

There is such a thing as a purebred nigerian dwarf that will faint or slightly lock legs. From what i've heard and read, they tried to get rid of the goats that carried the gene completely, but some people didn't realize what they were breeding and from there more and more generations carried the gene. I believe there are some certain bloodlines that had them. 

I can't quite remember where I was reading this, I could look, but it's been awhile since I read about it. Anywho, it sounds to me more like a genetic issue rather than a joint, pain issue. If that is the case, the buck should be sold without papers to prevent registered nigerians from carrying this gene to new generations.

I would contact the breeder though and see just what is up with this. If it is a respectable, well known farm, they probably wouldn't have sold and registered him as purebred nigi, but who knows. I would just try contacting the breeders asap and get this figured out. Do you have pics of this buck's sire and dam? Ask if they have ever locked legs. The breeder very well could be unaware that her doe or buck are carrying this gene.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

my wether locks up when he's scared.. it makes him look bigger..


i think we're just freaking out a bit..


unless he's locking up to where you could walk over and push to fall down..


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

How many owners has this buck had? I would contact them all, including the breeder. And to clarify, this guy only locks up when he's startled? Just want to rule out any possible illness.
It certainly is a strange one and does leave you wondering if anyone else had these episodes. Not sure what the current owner could do if she can't prove this happened previously.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I would just talk to the breeder and see what they have to say.

Now, my personally opinion, he should not be used for breeding.

I have seen purebred registered mytonics that do not fall over. They lock and stand still, but could not be pushed over, so there are different variations of mytonicism.

Just look into it, and I hope that everything works out.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Wow, that is a tough decision. . . everyone else made really good suggestions though. Hope it goes well!!


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok so here is what has happened and it is a great thing. Stacey I think we should have this somewhere for future reference and I had NEVER EVER known this! We contacted the breeder and then the woman who bought the goat from the breeder and then the next woman who he was bought from.... confused yet? The owner that had him before my freind never gave any minerals bose or copper, nothing, just alfalfa, ok, and she had him for two years. SHe just dident know, all she gave him was his cdt. He has a major selenium and/or vit E deficiancy! It is called white muscle disease when they are really deficiant or when they go from having every supplement under the sun to absolutly nothing at all, which is his case, that is why he dosent have fish tail or anything. It makes them loose control of muscle control and the muscles kinda desinagrate. Now we caught it before it got super bad. this can kill a goat in no time flat. If anyone dosent supplement for selenium and you are in a selenium deficiant area, start checking your goat for either stiff legs or fish tail. SO no he dosent have fainter in him....rather silly now that I think of it lol. But what it is is since he is starting to loose muscle control when he stiffens up when he is scared the muscles over react and then lock, the next step would have been a drunk looking goat who fell down alot. It is bitter sweet, this outcome is good being that I dont have to piss off allot of breeders, but it sucks that he has that bad of a deficiancy. At least it can be fixed. He has had his shot of bose this morning. Lets see what happens. Thank you all for your support in this! Thats why I love this website so much!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wow thats crazy - good thing you did contact them for more information and caught it in time. If you hadnt said anything a nice animal could have been culled and then not done so well physically. Hopefully he comes back and is normal


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Glad to hear that you got the answers you needed from the breeder and the previous owners....it didn't sound right to me that such a "highly papered" buck would have "tainted bloodlines", happy that his condition was diagnosed at the right time and that he can be treated. :hug:


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