# Should I Worry?



## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

This is my Oberhasli, Clover. I got her last year already in milk but she came from a friend so I am fairly familiar with her and how she typically looks in and out of milk. I am concerned about the size of her udder. I had my friend over that I got Clover from and she said she had never seen her like this unless she was full, tight, and ready to be milked, which is exactly how she looks!? It looks like it is hard and full but it is actually soft and this picture was taken AFTER she was milked out and I was able to get almost 3 quarts off of her! At her peak last year she gave me 3-3 1/2 quarts. 
I did decrease her feed temporarily (1-1 1/2 lbs 16% dairy mix) and she is getting alfalfa. Her kids are 6 days old today and are being bottle fed, and her udder is actually a lot softer than it looks. I bought some organic dynamint cream and have been massaging her udder twice a day after each milking. 
Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed and very much appreciated


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The pictures are after being milked out? Are you sure you are milking everything out?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

If that is milked out...something isn't right..........


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> The pictures are after being milked out? Are you sure you are milking everything out?


Well, I am milking her until her teats become "deflated". Her bag does get even softer but still large like this. I will say again that it looks much harder than it feels. It looks like she is about to explode! She also got very large during her pregnancy--I posted pics on the big belly thread. I do not know if that would have anything to do with her udder being like that?
I also caught her kids and she cleaned me, and still does even when I am milking her, as if I were her kid.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Are you planning to milk her? If you are, I would be milking her out once a day with kids on her. Her udder is too big not to be a milking goat.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Could it be extra fat?


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

Could she be holding back milk on you? You might want to try massaging her udder next time to see if she'll let down more for you.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Are you planning to milk her? If you are, I would be milking her out once a day with kids on her. Her udder is too big not to be a milking goat.


She is definitely for milking. My friend that previously owned her had always let her raise her kids and milked her once a day but always had trouble with her--that is how I got her...she did not want her anymore. So this year, under the advice of another friend who breeds and raises Saanens, I caught her kids and let her bond to me. I am bottle feeding her kids and milking her twice a day.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

NyGoatMom said:


> Could it be extra fat?


I am not sure. She is my first dairy goat, I do have another one now but Clover is my first and I got her already in milk last year. How would I know that? She does not seem fat or feel fatty on other parts of her body?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to milk her fully out. You don't just do till the teats are deflated, you do it till the bag is deflated. If you are bottle feeding, then you need to milk her totally out twice a day. She could end up with mastitis if you don't.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ariella42 said:


> Could she be holding back milk on you? You might want to try massaging her udder next time to see if she'll let down more for you.


I have been massaging her udder and using an udder cream called Dynamint each time I milk. I do not know if she is holding back. As mentioned earlier, when I caught her kids, I covered my arms with placenta fluid (gross I know) and she bonded to me (my Saanen breeder friend told me about this). I go out and visit with her several times a day so she does not get anxious, and her kids are out there in a pen near her and she will push them away and begin to groom me, even when I milk her. She thinks I am hers! I wondered if she is worried about overfeeding me...lol but I get almost 3 quarts per milking, and I think that is a lot for an Oberhasli...for her anyway


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How experienced are you at milking?

If she is honestly fully milked out and looking like that, you have problems. I really suspect you have a lot more to go with getting her milked out.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> You need to milk her fully out. You don't just do till the teats are deflated, you do it till the bag is deflated. If you are bottle feeding, then you need to milk her totally out twice a day. She could end up with mastitis if you don't.


Ok, I agree with you. However, I do not understand how to keep milking if I cannot squeeze the teat anymore...there is nothing there. I am not sure how to explain it. I know it is not really advisable, but I have even gone a little higher than her teat gently squeezing the udder just above the teat. And I am milking her twice a day. I want to help her and I milk her til I cannot get any more. If there is something else I can do I am all ears  I milked her of and on for a year before I got her, and her herd mates all by hand as I still do so I feel like I know how to milk...or do I?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have anyone super experienced at milking near you that can look at her? It just isn't making sense. Either you have a very very congested udder that you need to do something about now or you aren't getting all the milk out. An experienced person who could physically look at her could tell.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Do you have anyone super experienced at milking near you that can look at her? It just isn't making sense. Either you have a very very congested udder that you need to do something about now or you aren't getting all the milk out. An experienced person who could physically look at her could tell.


I had Clover's previous owner over to look at her and she was not really sure what was going on but she felt it and handled her udder and said she felt better knowing that it was not as hard and full feeling as it looked. We had some severe weather so my other friend who raises Saanens cannot get over (she is the one I really want to check her out because she also works for a vet). What would you do for a congested udder? Maybe I could do something along those lines just in case? 
The Saanen I have is a ff and she filled up A LOT and fast! She had some edema and I milked her even with her kids on her twice a day until the swelling went down. I wondered if that is what has happened but Clover is more like a 4 time freshener and her teats look perfect, unlike my Saanen did?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

For congested udder, you need to go out several times a day, use the peppermint oil or Bag Balm or whatever you are using, massage well and milk. You keep that up until her udder is down to the size it should be.

I question the other person if they said that was fine. It really isn't. Something is going on or she isn't being milked out fully. It is just too full looking.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Some does have a slow let-down rate. You need to milk until the teats deflate, massage while they fill up again, then continue milking. Do this until her bag is empty.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> For congested udder, you need to go out several times a day, use the peppermint oil or Bag Balm or whatever you are using, massage well and milk. You keep that up until her udder is down to the size it should be.
> 
> I question the other person if they said that was fine. It really isn't. Something is going on or she isn't being milked out fully. It is just too full looking.


I agree  I think it was more along the lines of her feeling better that it was not as hard as it appeared to be. I did ask her about going out to milk a couple of times a day because that is what I did for my Saanen but she felt that if I did that it would only cause her to produce more milk? But I think I will do just that until it is normal. Thank you so much for your advice


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Some does have a slow let-down rate. You need to milk until the teats deflate, massage while they fill up again, then continue milking. Do this until her bag is empty.


I actually just came in from milking her and I did this very thing and it did help! She was much softer and a good bit smaller than before, but I did not get it down to empty. I think I will do this and what Karen recommended about going out several times a day massage and milk and massage and milk...
So massaging helps with the let down: How about warm towels or something? I also notice that she usually opens her rear legs so that she is wide open but she did not do that today or yesterday?


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Wipe her udder with a rag before milking. The warm wetness is similar to baby's mouth, so she may be encouraged to let her milk down. 

Good luck!


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Wipe her udder with a rag before milking. The warm wetness is similar to baby's mouth, so she may be encouraged to let her milk down.
> 
> Good luck!


That makes sense! I do clean her before and after but I will try the warm towels tomorrow also. 
Thanks for the advice


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

caprinelivin said:


> I am not sure. She is my first dairy goat, I do have another one now but Clover is my first and I got her already in milk last year. How would I know that? She does not seem fat or feel fatty on other parts of her body?


Now that I have read the rest of this thread, I agree you are not getting all the milk out! Silly me didn't think to ask about your experience :hammer:
Follow the advice given and you'll get it


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

So is the problem I am having a common one with new dairy goat owners? Do dairy goats usually go through this when they first kid? (I do not necessarily mean ff but rather in general)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. Warm towels are good too.


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

some goats don't "let down " their milk well - they need time to adjust but you do need to massage and milk more then once a milking -I have one that takes massaging her 5-6 times to get it all.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

My FF does not let all her milk down without some massaging. Worse on one side. She is getting better though. I would massage and milk and repeat


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

As well as massaging her udder, make a fist and "bump" her udder like a kid would. This will help stimulate let down.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

So I went out last night, this morning, and this afternoon and massaged with dynamint, washed her really well with a warm cloth, massaged a little more then milked her til her teats became squishy, and massaged some more and held a warm cloth over each side for a minute or two and milked a little more. I did not get her empty but I did get her way down and her udder is getting very soft! I will go out there again tonight to milk and do the same process again. Before this, she was so large, and short, that I could not get a pail under her and be able to milk so I had to use a 1 quart glass measuring cup which has such a narrow opening and was only able to do one side at a time alternating sides.However, now I can get a pail under her and milk the way ya should therefore getting a better rhythm and singing to her...I do not know if it helps but she seems to like it or be amused by it!...lol. 
My ff is doing great but I let her raise her kids so she starts getting ancy and dancing around after about 2 quarts...stinker!


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

That's good news


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Some goats loved to be sung too while being milked. They don't seem to care if you can carry a tune or not!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Goats have about a 7 minute window to milk them out. When you put her on the milk stand, try and follow the same routine each time- feed her, wipe her teats, express the first milk, massage, then milk her. (or whatever you do). She should begin to let the milk down as soon as you start her routine. 

One idea you might try, if she continues to be engorged is to get some oxytocin from the vet. That will make her let down the milk! 

Every goat is a new learning experience! We all started somewhere with goats and the more we learn, the more we realize there is a lot more we don't know! You were smart to realize something may be wrong with her udder and start asking questions. As you go along, she should get easier to milk and her udder will be less full looking!


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Some goats loved to be sung too while being milked. They don't seem to care if you can carry a tune or not!


I tell ya it is a good thing she doesn't care how I sound because I could not carry a tune if it were in a bucket!...lol


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

Goats Rock said:


> Goats have about a 7 minute window to milk them out. When you put her on the milk stand, try and follow the same routine each time- feed her, wipe her teats, express the first milk, massage, then milk her. (or whatever you do). She should begin to let the milk down as soon as you start her routine.
> 
> One idea you might try, if she continues to be engorged is to get some oxytocin from the vet. That will make her let down the milk!
> 
> Every goat is a new learning experience! We all started somewhere with goats and the more we learn, the more we realize there is a lot more we don't know! You were smart to realize something may be wrong with her udder and start asking questions. As you go along, she should get easier to milk and her udder will be less full looking!


I did not have any problems like this out of her last year, but then again she kidded while my friend still had her. She has also never had her kids pulled from her. 
I noticed the day I sold her kids, that she was "soft talking" to them! She had been getting more and more curious about them and stopped "grooming" me. Now that they are gone she is grooming and talking to me more. 
I do not know if any of this has anything to do with her being so enlarged but I would think if she was trying to bond with her kids again that it would have an affect. and her bag is starting to get smaller and softer after milking. I go out in the morning, in the afternoon, and at night to milk her just to keep the size and pressure down. I wonder when I should try to attempt just twice a day?
I will get a pic when I go out next so ya'll can see the difference!


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