# Keeping a goat alone?



## bellaismygoat

Okay so here is my situation. I used to have two goats, but now I am down to one because one died. Now I only have one goat, and I keep her at a friends house who has a herd of goats. She is in a pen by herself at their house, and she is doing fine, but can still see and hear other goats. She has a "I'm only alive because I have to be" attitude, and seems like the kind of goat that would do okay alone... But I am still worried about her. I will be playing with her daily (I always have), and she will have a pasture and shed all to herself. Will she be allright if she's the only goat? Thanks.


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## xymenah

I know most people say that all goats need to be in a herd to be happy but I have not found this to be true for all goats. There are some rare individuals who do better alone I have one of them. Her name is Beep and like your goat she has a "I'm only alive because I have to be" type attitude. She is in a pen all by herself because she just hates the other goats and honestly would just rather be left alone by everyone. I am the only human who can handle her because she is so aggressive. She tolerates and never acts aggressive towards me when I handle her but I can tell she just wants me to give her the food and leave her alone besides the occasional pat. If your goat does not seem to like the other goats around and just wants to be left alone I would keep her single but if she does enjoy their company even through the fence I would get her a friend.


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## Axykatt

Sarah the goat lived alone in my bf's backyard for years before I got the babies. She was perfectly happy to stay alone after her companion, Holly, died. In fact, she never really adjusted to the babies and wouldn't share the goat chalet with them or graze near them.

Put her by herself and see how she does.


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## Jessaba

I agree, if she seems to not want to be around the other goats, try her alone. If she doesn't do well alone then get her a pal


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## sweetgoats

I do know that people that have single goats, they are normally singles from the get go. If they were with other goats and had friends, then they will be lonely and want another friend. They are herd animals and they need that interaction with their friends.


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## bellaismygoat

Thank you so much everyone! I am going to bring her home this week and see how she does alone.  Thank you all again!


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## toth boer goats

I really recommend a buddy, in the winter they can buddy up, keeping warmer. Or have someone to talk to when you are not there or be able to play, how would you feel being alone. 
I know they can do OK, being alone but, goats, like people, need someone in their lives.


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## Caeles Hills

I have had two sisters together for 8 years after my horses died of old age, and now this morning one of my goats was dead. She had an ovarian tumor. My other goat is very upset and searching and crying. Tomorrow I will be taking her to a new home ( a really good friend of mine) who has several barnyard pets and a pair of does that she says are mean. I want the best for my Elsa and am just afraid that either she will try to run away, or the others won't let her come into the barn, or that they will hurt her etc.... Does anyone have any hints to make this transition go better for her? It is SO cold here right now (-22 below zero at night) I cannot think she would survive if she stood outside afraid to go in a barn because they didn't like her. I'm so sad losing my Agnes....she was my bottle fed baby and so very friendly! Please help advise...


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## ksalvagno

A single older goat being moved to a new place with 2 goats that are known to be mean is not a good situation. She will get butted and slammed. Is there another option for her?


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## Goats Rock

Why can't you keep her and find a friend for her? The 2 mean goats will not befriend her, they will beat the tar out of her. She just lost her life time buddy and is traumatized from that, then to be thrust into a new hostile environment may kill her. 

Being alone in a familiar environment is much better, in my opinion, than the alternative you have described.


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## Caeles Hills

Thank you so much for responding! I want the best for her and she would be alone here. I had to move to a place 2 years ago when I became disabled where I'm not sure if I'm supposed to have goats, so getting another is not the best plan for me. She could stay alone but she has always hated being away from Agnes even a few feet. Very attached to her! I'm really confused on how long their lifespan is... I've been told 10 years and also 20 years! She is an Alpine Dairy female. My friend has a whole barnyard of pets. She has a lot of chickens, a Mini Pony, a mini donkey, and the two Dwarf Nigerian Does that are also 8 years old and smaller than my Elsa. I am down with so many joint surgeries everyone wants me to get her a new home as I have to find people to help care for them a lot. I'm also afraid she may try to get loose as today is the first time I've seen her jump up on the fence when she saw me outside. I've been sitting with her a lot but she will be all alone in the night and I'm also concerned about predators. We have bear, coyotes, and cougars spotted around here. She is such a scaredy cat I think it may be worth a try to see if she could get along with those other animals?


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## Caeles Hills

Could I get her some chickens? I have some barn cats out there but they sleep in my garage at night. I don't think I could face another baby/young goat getting loose like they like to do. I now live surrounded by roads and a highway nearby so a loose goat would be dangerous. When mine were young they got loose all the time but then just out in the fields at the farm they were at. My pen is 5 foot high hog panels with an electric wire across the top and my girls haven't tried to get loose since they were about a year old.


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## mariarose

This (going to the already bonded pair of aggressive goats) sounds like it would be terrible for her.

Where do you live? Perhaps one of us could take her?


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## Caeles Hills

I live in Western Wisconsin near Eau Claire


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## Caeles Hills




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## Caeles Hills

Elsa who needs a home is the brown one above. She was a kid in this picture with Agnes but she is grown now a very beautiful and healthy


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## GoofyGoat

Maybe you could find an older wether to be her buddy. I'd look on Craigslist or something. She'll be happier with a friend and wethers are more gentle rather than a doe who is trying to be herd queen. Just a thought.


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## Caeles Hills

GoofyGoat said:


> Maybe you could find an older wether to be her buddy. I'd look on Craigslist or something. She'll be happier with a friend and wethers are more gentle rather than a doe who is trying to be herd queen. Just a thought.


Yes have thought of but afraid my neighbors might report me if I bring anymore animals here. I explained the two I have but promised to not get anymore when they are gone so I can either keep her alone or find a home with a pasture pal for her somewhere else. Hoping my vet knows someone with a lonely pony or something like that...


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## Caeles Hills

Well this morning she seems more herself. Crabby and standoffish. She was so needy yesterday and let me actually hold her, kiss her and pet her all day. I found another home with 3 goats and horses who want her but now am afraid although they SAY the goats are nice they might not be nice to her. They are a male pygmy and 2 of his 3 year old children, I don't know if the males are weathered if not she is too old to be bred so that would be an issue. I decided from your advise to keep her here alone at least another couple of weeks til this severely cold weather is over. She definitely stayed in her igloo doghouse last night which is inside the barn so well sheltered here. I checked on her a few time in the night. She cried when she heard me but stayed cuddled up and didn't run out.


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## mariarose

3 goats is definitely better than 2. & Waiting for the end of bitter cold sounds very wise.

3 goats usually have a little bit of give in the herd dynamic. A pair is usually strongly bonded with no room for another.

@odieclark do you know any Wisconsin people willing to take her in?
@FoxRidge do you know anyone in Minnesota with room?


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## Caeles Hills

You are all so kind and knowledgeable! I have a new potential home coming to see her today just to talk about it. I know from her FB she has 1 male looks like a pygmy goat and 2 of his kids from 2015, not sure of the sexes. She is in her 50s with horses, owns a small farm near me and has a few horses she competes with. What questions should I be asking? My goat is too old to be bred and I know I can't risk that. Should she be given her own pen next to them for a while? I'm not sure of the facilities but I plan to visit them beforehand. Thanks for all your great advise!


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## SonRise Acres

I would ask if all males are wethered. If not, you have your answer on her going there. I would ask about what she feeds, etc. I would wonder about giving her the goat if she didn’t mention isolation for a bit. She doesn’t know you or your goat and it wouldn’t protect her herd to immediately introduce an animal that could be sick. Just because you know she isn’t is no reason for her to believe it as a buyer. 

I learned with more than 2 goats the actual introduction is often easier. I introduced a goat to my herd a few weeks ago and there were no issues. A tiny bit of my dominant female butting and the new goat got the message in a few hours.


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## Caeles Hills

I met the interested lady today and she met Elsa. Elsa was hiding in her doghouse (inside the barn) but did come out to see us. She would not let us approach. She is barely eating and obviously grieving. At least she stopped crying loudly constantly. I have to approach her curled up form and touch her then she gives a little pitiful cry which is almost more heartwrenching than the loud crying of yesterday and last night. She does not seem at all interested in food and all I could get her to eat today was a few mouthfuls of hay, 2 graham crackers, and about a cup of human oats. She took about 2 nibbles of pelleted food, and tried to eat some apple pieces and celery (all her favorites) but didn't. I did see her drink about a half gallon of water last night and monitoring the bucket and her food. It's SO cold here right now I pray she eats more. Tried to give her molasses like the vet suggested but she wouldn't touch it. I would have to force it down her throat. She's definitely not going anywhere til she is better and eating good!


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## ksalvagno

I'd get B Complex and probiotics into her.


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## mariarose

Did you like the interested lady?


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## Dwarf Dad

Having company of other goats may be what she needs.


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## Caeles Hills

mariarose said:


> Did you like the interested lady?


Yes. She is a friend of a friend and highly recommended. She doesn't know much about goats just a few pets for about 3 years. They are pygmy/Nigerian mix and 3 weathers. I talked to her about the future and her plans as Elsa cannot be with a buck but she has no plans to breed or get a buck. I also talked to her about me taking Elsa back if for any reason she did not want to keep her. So the next plan is for me to visit her place in a week or so to see her facilities. Elsa is alive this morning so a good sign. Our weather up here is SO cold right now and going to get worse this week with temps dropping to minus - 23 Celsius and high winds.


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## Caeles Hills

Just an update on Elsa, she is hiding in her doghouse pretty much all the time unless I am with her. I sat with her 6 hours yesterday with a few breaks to change boots and warm up (it was 4 degrees above zero) the sun was shining so I sat on her deck in the sun with her. She finally after a few hours started to nibble a little hay. My concern is that she is eating enough. Yesterday she ate aprox 1 cup of oats, and maybe an ice cream pail of hay. Also 1/2 graham cracker, a carrot stick, and about 1/2 cup of pelleted feed. She wont touch anything with molasses like sweet feed. I took a break and ran to Farm Fleet and got her a tube of emergency keto paste but couldn't catch her (I just had both ankles fused so can barely walk). If I have to I will get my vet back to help me every day but she may be munching on more hay when I'm not there I don't know. I have a lot of fresh hay in her barn and little doghouse to help keep her warm. She won't let me pet her anymore so is acting more normal for her. She does like it when I'm out there and runs right out to stand with me. I'm hoping to keep her alone. Thinking of chickens or ducks or something to keep her company BUT am afraid they may attract predators to her pen. Also thinking a mini horse or something that wont try to escape like a baby goat would. She has no horns so everyone that has goats to put her with has mean goats with horns and I'm not comfortable with that either. Unless I find a home that will keep her in a pen alone NEXT to horses or other goats at least for a while I'm not comfortable letting her go. Any thoughts is she eating enough? Would chickens with her put her in danger of predators?


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## mariarose

That really depends on the kind of predators you have around you. I don't find chickens very companionable myself.

So you think that your neighbors will complain if you get another goat, but won't complain if you get a pony? Just as well. Most equines don't care for caprines unless raised with them. 

How about an LGD? Like an Anatolian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees, or one of that sort? Most neighbors will accept a dog anywhere, and LGDs will not attract predators (get it fixed), and are almost guaranteed to love her back to life.


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## Caeles Hills

mariarose said:


> That really depends on the kind of predators you have around you. I don't find chickens very companionable myself.
> 
> So you think that your neighbors will complain if you get another goat, but won't complain if you get a pony? Just as well. Most equines don't care for caprines unless raised with them.
> 
> How about an LGD? Like an Anatolian Shepherd, Great Pyrenees, or one of that sort? Most neighbors will accept a dog anywhere, and LGDs will not attract predators (get it fixed), and are almost guaranteed to love her back to life.


Thanks! I'm just looking for a small barnyard companion that won't be noticeable to the neighbors or try to escape. I am trying to get away from the outdoor animals since I am getting more and more disabled. If I get one more goat I will be in this same situation again in a few years. I worry SO much about my outdoor animals, the weather is so extreme up here and I can not help it, I don't sleep well at all if I feel my outdoor animals may be cold, hot, or in danger. I already have 2 Champion Newfies and a Golden here that are getting older and stay in the house at night with me, so another dog would not be allowed. What about a potbelly pig? Just trying to think of something to stay out in the pen with her that is not very noticeable to the neighbors. It's pretty wide open here although I do have some low privacy screen on the road side. She is an introvert anyway, I just think she is scared all alone. I think anything out there would keep her interested and not so scared.


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## Damfino

Something to think about would be a home with 5 or more goats. That way she would be part of a herd so she'd be bound to find her place among them. It's too bad the place with the three wethers didn't work out. That sounded like it could be very good. As the only female, it's unlikely that the boys would pick on her. Even wethers have a certain possessiveness over females and will fight each other for her attention, but they don't usually try to harm or exclude females. I have a mixed herd of horns and hornless and have not had a problem with the boys using their horns aggressively against the girls. They sometimes boss (especially around food), but they don't abuse.


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## Caeles Hills

I guess I'd be willing to risk it for Elsa's sake, and find a couple of Pygmy goats that don't get so big and noticeable and maybe my fencing would keep them in...


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## Caeles Hills

Damfino said:


> Something to think about would be a home with 5 or more goats. That way she would be part of a herd so she'd be bound to find her place among them. It's too bad the place with the tree wethers didn't work out. That sounded like it could be very good. As the only female, it's unlikely that the boys would pick on her. Even wethers have a certain possessiveness over females and will fight each other for her attention, but they don't usually try to harm or exclude females. I have a mixed herd of horns and hornless and have not had a problem with the boys using their horns aggressively against the girls. They sometimes boss (especially around food), but they don't abuse.


That option is still on the table if they want her. I just need to get her through this week we are getting down to 50 below zero in the next few days and at least here I know she is in the barn and I can check on her throughout the night.


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## mariarose

Pigs need incredible fences.


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## mariarose

Caeles Hills said:


> I already have 2 Champion Newfies and a Golden here that are getting older and stay in the house at night with me,


So can you put them into the goat pen during the day?


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## Damfino

I wonder if you might think about grabbing a heated dog mat for the floor, or a heat lamp to hang in her shelter to get her through this cold spell. Since she's not eating well right now, the cold is going to affect her a lot more than usual.


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## Caeles Hills




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## Caeles Hills

Here she is with my Arab and one of my dogs as a youngster. She liked to hide under my horses legs all the time. She seems to like to play but maybe is being aggressive? She's very gentle when she butts..


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## Caeles Hills

mariarose said:


> So can you put them into the goat pen during the day?


No I had my Newfs allergy tested and both are allergic to several grasses like alfalfa. I do keep them right next to her pen in their outdoor kennels during the day, so she can be within 10 feet of them and see them. We just got about 7 inches of snow so I banked it up around her little barn outside to help insulate. (this is the first snow we've had measurable) I am kind of scared to put a heating element in there with fire danger and all the hay. I'd have to use an extension cord which she may try to chew on too. Her water is heated but the cord is outside her fence... Please all pray for her that we can get through the next few days...


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## Trollmor

For once, I clicked on a film! Hihi, that dog was a bit of a mouthful for that goat! :haha: Just friendliness settled the quarrel! And hiding under the horse, what a patience!

Concerning your alone goat(s) (Is there one or two with the problem?) I say, let them make decisions of their own! It is possible to understand what they want, but, of course, it might take some car rides to be able to ask the questions in a way that they can understand.

To come alone to a flock is usually a laborious thing for a goat. The flock members tend to push one another away, "Give room, now it is my turn to have a fight with this new one!" Better to combine groups that are about the same size, then everyone gets the chance to fight for the ranking place.

In my flock, the hornless ones were often more aggressive, and females more aggressive than males.

Or less peaceful, in my flock, they were very friendly.


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## Damfino

It might not hurt to take a peek at what's available at the feed store in terms of livestock-specific heat lamps. In general they scare me too, but if installed properly they shouldn't pose a danger. I'm sure I've seen some heat lamps made for livestock that have protective metal coils around the cord so it can't be chewed. Or perhaps you could drill a small hole to pass the cord through so only the lamp is inside her stall. If it's hung high enough there's no reason it should cause a fire in the hay. I haven't personally ever needed to use a heat lamp, but I have friends who have used them for years and years with no problems.


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## mariarose

I'll give no more suggestions then.


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## Trollmor

I am also afraid of a fire in the stable. Heat lamps (I guess you mean the red ones with a metal cover all around? Here they are called 'pig lamps') do not get so hot so they are dangerous just like that, but in the long run they collect dust, which can be dangerous. Having just one, with a beloved friend, whom you visit often, might enable you to keep it clean and safe.


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## toth boer goats

If I feel heat lamps need to be used, I use them.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> If I feel heat lamps need to be used, I use them.


Yes, we are all dissimilar, ain't that good!


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## SonRise Acres

I use heat lamps. I do it only when it’s very cold and do it safely (more than one mechanism holding the lamp in case of failure, above the goats so they cant get it, all wiring totally out of reach). Right now I have a doe ready to kid. I want to be there but in case she delivers while I am asleep and I don’t hear her, or I have to be gone, I want her to be warm and her babies to be warm.


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## Goats Rock

Regarding heat lamps, they sell some enclosed in a plastic basket. Much safer than the traditional metal ones with the little guard on them. (Brooder lights). "Premier Supply" sells the lights.


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## toth boer goats

Very expensive but well worth it.


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## Caeles Hills

One more quick question please! Tonight and tomorrow the actual air temp will be down to -25 tonight and -35 tomorrow night. Wind chills -60 plus. She has no other animal to cuddle with but I have hay bales stacked inside a good shelter to make a cave for her. The shelter is a commercial trailer with a garage door at one end. I plan on shutting her in completely tonight (she doesn't seem to come out after dark anyway). She has been eating lots better and drinking and seems warm and healthy. I do not want to buy her a blanket because 1) she will be completely out of the wind, and 2) whenever I blanketed my horses in the barn in sever cold they still seemed to sweat underneath and that would be bad. Heat lamp is out....none available in my area all sold out. As far as where she is going permanently or if I get another goat I will worry about after I get her through this week. JUst need some emotional support....still grieving Agnes and in survival mode right now...


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## Caeles Hills




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## Damfino

I'm so glad she's eating better. It sounds like you've got her sheltered really well so she should be ok. The main thing is to make sure the floor has a deep layer of bedding for her to snuggle into. I think she's going to be alright. Losing Agnes is a big adjustment for both of you.


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## Caeles Hills

Damfino said:


> I'm so glad she's eating better. It sounds like you've got her sheltered really well so she should be ok. The main thing is to make sure the floor has a deep layer of bedding for her to snuggle into. I think she's going to be alright. Losing Agnes is a big adjustment for both of you.


THank you so much! I just want to do everything I can for her without stressing her more. I would bring her in the house but I know that would severely stress her, she at least seems comfortable and eating in her own home.


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## Caeles Hills

She is shivering even in the doghouse full of hay in the shelter full of hay. I feel like if I don't bring her indoors she will die. Not eating much today seems even more depressed. Didn't want to drink warm water. Doesn't seem to want to live... Its sunny and -6 right now and if she is shivering in this....


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## Trollmor

Hm, why feel stressed in the house? That is bad. But if shivering, she really does not need to be colder? I guess the wind chills the outer walls of her shelter, too?

GOOD LUCK, survivers!


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## SonRise Acres

We have used a bathroom as shelter before for goats too big for a pack-n-play that need to come in. Easy clean up.


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## Trollmor

If the floor is slippery, that could explain the reaction of stress?


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## Caeles Hills

I brought her into the house she is in a 48 inch dog crate has plenty of room to turn lay down etc. She is REALLY shaking now never been in a house before. I have to keep it at least 60 so my pipes don't freeze but am going to lay down next to her and read. Dogs locked in another room. Please let me know NOW if this is a really bad idea I don't want to make things worse but she would have suffered out there tonight too I think all alone.....


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## Trollmor

I think it is a very good idea, and you seem to understand that a goat on her own, mourning or not, is a goat in danger! Stroke her from me, too, if she allows you to!


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## Damfino

I'm glad she's in the house with you. I know she's shivering from fear--it smells heavily of dogs in your house! But she will eventually realize that nothing is going to hurt her in there and she'll be ok even if she stays nervous. She might be too stressed to take them right now, but keep offering her some favorite treats and hopefully she'll come round eventually.


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## Trollmor

Stress might speed up the guts, maybe it is most important with hay and water?


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## Caeles Hills

Dogs locked in another room. She started eating a little hay after an hour. Still just picking as usual. Hasn't drank water yet today and wouldn't take any when I brought it in the barn (its in a large heated bucket outside the barn) I think that clinched it for me that I had to do something! I would have tried to stay with her in the barn tonight and I might have froze to death with her. At least in here we both are warm no matter how she hates it. My cat just came up and hissed at her and she stomped and tried to butt her LOL! At least taking her mind off her grief too!


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## Caeles Hills




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## Caeles Hills

How long can she stay standing? She hasn't laid down yet. I thought about taking her out on the leash to walk around but she fights me so hard I'm afraid I wont be able to get her back in the crate. Before when I brought her she was cold and sad. Now she's warm and mad.. BUT she does seem relaxed. Playing with all the latches on the crate, drank a little water and has been munching hay. Will she ever lay down?


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## SonRise Acres

Maybe turn off lights, TVs, etc and leave the room for a while? Mine won’t lay down if I am there.


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## Trollmor

Better warm and mad than cold and sad!  Could it be that she feels unprotected? Can you see how she likes to get the cage covered on top, for a feeling of protection from predators from above?

And good luck to endure the weather! Is it already upon you? Will you stay online?


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## Caeles Hills

It is -28 below here this morning. She spent a quiet night but she just started coughing! Had about a 3 minute coughing fit now just a couple every minute or so. Want to try to take her out today and just bring her in tonight again but only getting to -15 for a high. I only have the house at 58 and do have a humidifier going. She doesn't seem to be hot or scared anymore. I just want her to drink some water that I can see. She only drank about 1 cup yesterday. Just gave her fresh in her crate. She ate quite a bit of her hay but not drinking. Just took a sip now but not a good long drink. Still peeing pretty regularly. Need to get her out for a while and clean out this crate and put fresh hay!


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## Trollmor

Hope the cough is not serious! Nice she is not so scared any more.  Mine liked blackcurrant juice, but it seems to be difficult to get in your country. I suppose she eats enough of salt to get naturally thirsty.

Having slept any?


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## Caeles Hills

Trollmor said:


> Hope the cough is not serious! Nice she is not so scared any more.  Mine liked blackcurrant juice, but it seems to be difficult to get in your country. I suppose she eats enough of salt to get naturally thirsty.
> 
> Having slept any?


She laid down and slept pretty much all night. I slept on the couch where I could see her. Once and a while she would baa and I said her name and then she would be quiet again. I need some ideas on how to keep the air in here fresh. I did turn on the stove vent fan this morn for about an hour. I opened the door near here and let a lot of fresh air in. Should I put a fan on her? My plan is to take her out to her barn and pen as soon as the sun comes out and let her spend as much of the day out there as possible. I will be bringing her in tonight too as to be -35. It will only be a high of -15 here today and that wont even be until afternoon. BUT she can still snuggle up in the barn hay and stand in the sun if she wants. Any thoughts on this? I think she needs to move around a little she can't put her head completely up in this crate.


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## ksalvagno

I would put her out during the day.


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## Caeles Hills

ksalvagno said:


> I would put her out during the day.


Thanks! I am thinking that too. Still so cold out! Her heated water bucket had 1 inch of ice on top. Never seen that happen ever! Still working though and got ice off. Gates are open ready for me to take her out. She is SO strong on the leash pray I don't let her go or fall on the way. Also hope she is ok going from the warm to such cold but I need to clean her crate and she needs some exercise.


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## Caeles Hills

She is out and ran around yelling for Agnes but settled down in her barn cave and is eating now. Feels warm inside her little cave so will leave her out til this afternoon hopefully.


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## Caeles Hills

Sorry don’t know why uploaded pics 3 times! Must be frozen phone LOL


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## Caeles Hills




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## Dwarf Dad

Ha, ha! That really is a cave! It looks like she will be warm in there.


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## toth boer goats

Goodness, how cute.


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## Caeles Hills

How stupid my brain is lately...I said it was -28 Celsius , No its FARENHIET LOL We haven't seen this kind of cold in over 26 years


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## Trollmor

And I don't understand Fahrenheit, of course I "saw" that you had "centigrades"!

I would not put a fan on her, that could be very negative. Is the air really that bad in there?

If I was a goat, I would really feel good when getting an answer for every Ba. Good job!

That photo of a nose showing in all that hay reminds me of those pigs, from whom I could see only the steam from their breathing. Didn't know goats could do the same. (clap)


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## Caeles Hills

She's standing in the sun now outside. It's warmed up to -19. I'm hoping to keep her out there until 3pm she's been out since 9am and once she's in I can't get her back out again until morning. I vacuumed and showered and cleaned her crate while she is out. This time I shook out the hay before putting in her crate hopefully will improve the air quality for all of us inside tonight. She ate about 2 cups of oats in the barn while I was with her for a while. Still haven't seen her drink but she is peeing regularly and pooping a lot.


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## Caeles Hills

Ok she's had enough and was starting to shiver so I brought her back in. Eating a graham cracker right now


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## cbrossard

Could you get a coat or a sweater on her for when she's out in the cold? 

As for the smell: If you have access to some lavender essential oil you can make a spray with lavender, and some baking soda in water and spray that around to freshen the room, plus lavender would be calming to her.


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## Trollmor

I begin to suspect that the problem is the steam from her urine. Is there a possibility to give her a thick bed of some absorbing material? It is when the urine gets contact with the air that bad smell occurs.

Btw, the weather report yesterday mentioned your cold. The meteorologist said, that you had -30, and "this is what they have also in northern Sweden, but, over there, there is a strong wind also, which makes it feel much colder!" Whereafter he went on with the forecast.


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## Caeles Hills

She is still in house. Just not warming up this morning. She suddenly seems to have fits of danger snorting I think. Did it in the night when I let the dogs outside to pee. I turn the stove hood fan on for about 1/2 hour once in a while, seems to help the air quality and freshen things up and is within a few feet of her. My dogs are sick of being cooped up too and barking and playing with each other a lot but she seems to be getting used to them and the noise in the next room.


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## Caeles Hills

Here is what I wonder if this forum could help....I would like to board her where she can be near other pasture type animals or with them if possible. Or would give her to good home that has same situation like goat or pony or horse all alone and needs a pasture buddy. OR would like to find a Pygmy goat buddy to bring her. Is there anyone on this forum who knows any of these situations available? I'm in West Central Wisconsin about 1 hour from St Paul Mn.


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## Trollmor

Aha, a fan pulling air FROM her will probably be much better than one, as I thought, blowing ONTO her!

Good luck in finding a good future for her!


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## cbrossard

You might have better luck on a local hobby farm facebook group or posting an ISO on craigslist. All of us on this forum are so spread out!


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## Caeles Hills

She is eating really well!! :clapping: First time since Agnes died a week ago tomorrow that she really has eaten a good amount of hay. Gave her an apple munched it right down! The only time she seems sad is when I put her out in the pen during the day. I found some baby Pygmy bucks nearby he said he would wether them for me. Have to bottle feed yet as not weened. If I get one or two, I suppose I had better separate them from her for a while? I can make a kennel for them inside the barn and just let them out when I can supervise them all together....


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## Trollmor

You mean to quarantine them? A good idea.


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## mariarose

Trollmor said:


> You mean to quarantine them? A good idea.


That is not what she means. She's planning to keep the young wethers caged unless she can watched all 3 together. So the wethers are at her mercy for being out of the cage.

@Caeles Hills I thought you needed to not have any further involvement with outside animals? And no more goats? I am uncertain how this is a good solution.


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## mariarose

Trollmor said:


> Aha, a fan pulling air FROM her will probably be much better than one, as I thought, blowing ONTO her!


No, it really isn't. It is still a draft. Cleaning out the cage during the brief outdoors excursions would do much more to clear the air.


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## SonRise Acres

Caeles Hills said:


> She is eating really well!! :clapping: First time since Agnes died a week ago tomorrow that she really has eaten a good amount of hay. Gave her an apple munched it right down! The only time she seems sad is when I put her out in the pen during the day. I found some baby Pygmy bucks nearby he said he would wether them for me. Have to bottle feed yet as not weened. If I get one or two, I suppose I had better separate them from her for a while? I can make a kennel for them inside the barn and just let them out when I can supervise them all together....


Not sure this will help her. If they have been wethered long enough, why not just let them share the space? How big of a kennel do you mean? Seems the wethers won't be happy or have near enough space.


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## Caeles Hills

mariarose said:


> That is not what she means. She's planning to keep the young wethers caged unless she can watched all 3 together. So the wethers are at her mercy for being out of the cage.
> 
> @Caeles Hills I thought you needed to not have any further involvement with outside animals? And no more goats? I am uncertain how this is a good solution.


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## Caeles Hills

Hi, just to clarify, I am looking at a new home for her this weekend, but it is with the mean goats. If I cannot get her a pen with shelter by herself I will be keeping her here. I thought she could be alone but I don't think I can sleep at night knowing she is scared by herself out there. I already have the setup here, so perhaps another goat friend will be ok as long as a smaller goat. Not the best solution for me but I do like goats and having them. The Pygmy bucks I found are still being bottle fed and was thinking 2. The breeder said he would wether them for me, not sure when. But yes if they are that tiny I thought I would keep them in the barn with her but separated. My 48 inch crate was plenty big for my Alpine goat so with lots of bedding should be fine for babies. The breeder has them outside he said.


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## Caeles Hills

mariarose said:


> No, it really isn't. It is still a draft. Cleaning out the cage during the brief outdoors excursions would do much more to clear the air.


Thanks she has been outside about 6 hours each day while I cleaned the inside crate. She spent most of the time outside in her igloo doghouse inside the barn. She spent the last three nights in the house and really got to liking my dogs and seemed happy. Today she went outside forever again and cried and cried. But we are a week out after Agnes death and the weather is getting warmer by the hours. My barn kitties go in with her and my dogs went out to their kennels for a few hours too today and she sat outside with them. Their kennels are only about three feet away from her pen. I am satisfied she is going to survive this. Now to figure out the best solution to her being alone and scared.


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## toth boer goats

Glad things are better.


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## Trollmor

Tell you what? I think you will miss your friend if you sell her.
:inlove:


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## Caeles Hills

Trollmor said:


> Tell you what? I think you will miss your friend if you sell her.
> :inlove:


I think so too! I never thought she liked me much and she was basically always Agnes' buddy. The last few years she has come up and let me brush her without catching her, but I've always had to keep a collar on her so I could catch her. Now she seems to want me around. I locked her in her barn last night so she couldn't get out and nothing could get in. I feel better if she is alone and I think SHE felt safer too. I checked on her a couple of times and when I called her name from outside her barn she called back but it was very peaceful sounding and not desperate. As for the baby Pygmy goat or goats, I have hog panels and found on another site that they can get through them so glad I did some research. I'll have to put something around them like smaller wire til they grow up.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

So babies are weaned at 3 months old. How old are they now? If you get 2 new babies, that would be the best idea, so they can back each other up if she starts to be aggressive.At three months old, they are still pretty small, so i would watch them with her. Maybe setup a little doghouse or something small that they can escape to that she is too big to get into. Maybe if you could build a smaller pen right next to her pen, they can touch noses and get used to each other before you let them in with her. But that pen will need a shelter to go along with it, but i think that is a better idea than always keeping them in a crate!


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## Caeles Hills

TH


Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> So babies are weaned at 3 months old. How old are they now? If you get 2 new babies, that would be the best idea, so they can back each other up if she starts to be aggressive.At three months old, they are still pretty small, so i would watch them with her. Maybe setup a little doghouse or something small that they can escape to that she is too big to get into. Maybe if you could build a smaller pen right next to her pen, they can touch noses and get used to each other before you let them in with her. But that pen will need a shelter to go along with it, but i think that is a better idea than always keeping them in a crate!


Thanks for the insight! Yes have been thinking the best way to do it and need your help! Wish you could come see my setup and help me design something  I now realize that my hog panel fencing has holes too big for a baby pygmy, and they will be able to escape. I will need to put chicken wire or something over it. What about the plastic chicken wire, would that be safer? Also yes have 2 igloo doghouses here and would get more if needed. Can a dwarf goat climb a tree? If they can, they can get up on the roof of my container shelter and get loose. That is my hesitation on getting them. I know young goats love to escape and my Alpine girls haven't tried to escape in years. Also they are too big to get through small openings. My neighbors would complain if goats were loose and I would have to get rid of them all. Perhaps if I buy a large outdoor dog kennel and put it inside my goat pen with a doghouse for them would work. Or for now just keep them in one of my Newfies indoor outdoor dog kennels I already have. I have a nice set up for the dogs and they mostly live in the house.


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## SonRise Acres

Thankfully they can’t climb a tree. If they could, we would be in big trouble. Haha.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Maybe if you could put 2 dog kennels together with one side touching the other goats fence so they can interact. That would be a big enough paddock but you would still need a good shelter I will look on Pinterest for easy DIY goat shelters if you are willing to build a shelter for the little guys.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

https://morningchores.com/goat-sheds/
here are some ideas for some easy goat shelters


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## Trollmor

SonRise Acres said:


> Thankfully they can't climb a tree. If they could, we would be in big trouble. Haha.


Can they not? I am not convinced!

Thanks, Nigerian dwarf goat, that was a nice site! They say: _"But the one thing I've learned about raising goats is that if you keep them happy, they'll never want to leave."_ This is said in old times' Sweden also, about all animals: "A good pasture is the best fence."

Furthermore, they say: _"...we purchased livestock fencing and thought, "Our goats will never get through this.

Well, our female goats only use the fence to brush themselves. Yet, our male goat loves to use the fence to rack his horns on."_ These behaviours are quite natural, and have to do with marking the area with their personal scent. Just like we like to have our name on the door, on the gate, on the mail box!

_"So they wanted out to get to a weed they just swore they needed, but once it was done, they were ready to go back in to their home."_ This I have also experienced. I suspect it had to do with minerals or worms. So again: Keep them happy, and they won't run away! But, it can be tricky to really keep them happy! :imok: (Well, after such excursions, they generally do return home!  )

One additional experience: If you plan to make a gate or a hole that lets smaller ones through but not the bigger ones, let them struggle to get their withers (??) through, not the sides, in which case the hip can get stuck, whereafter you must deconstruct the whole thing to get them free. Maybe you can find inspiration from the gate the Sames use to separate the calf from its mother: the mother reindeer easily jumps over, but the calf prefers to creep under. And, _voilá_, on the other side of the gate there is a fence.


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## Caeles Hills

I looked at my friend's facilities and am so happy. We are going to bring her out and try it. She has about 10 acres of roaming with 7 foot fence, a mini pony, a mini donkey, a potbelly pig, chickens, turkeys and quail, and best of all, her two "mean" does are dehorned fat, older mini's who are about 1/3 of Elsa's size. Lots of shelter and the barn with several Igloo doghouses around. Heck I myself wanted to live there! Will be bringing Elsa's own Igloo doghouse that she has loved since she was little so she feels she has her own hidey hole if she feels overwhelmed. I really think she will love the very docile Mini pony and donkey that are just her size. Hoping it works out as I think in the long run she would be so very happy there with a "herd". My friend is getting more baby goats this spring also so Elsa may bond with them. She gets the Nigerian Dwarf goats.


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## Damfino

That is wonderful! I hope this new home works out for Elsa. I agree that it does make a huge difference if the two "mean" goats are small and dehorned. Elsa is far less likely to be intimidated by them, and if she's not intimidated then she can't be bullied. And if she can make friends with the pony and donkey she won't feel the need to constantly hang out with the other goats and provoke them by butting into their space and their friendship. I truly hope this works out!


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## Dwarf Dad

That sounds like a great solution! It sounds like a.place you may be visiting a lot.


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## Trollmor

Good luck in life, Elsa!


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## elvis&oliver

Good luck to you I hope this all works out for Elsa


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## SonRise Acres

Sounds like you have a great plan!


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## Caeles Hills

She is still here alone, the weather here has not been good for moving her...storm after storm. She seems ok now but very lonely. Is there anything I can give her or do to help her in the hours that I am not sitting with her? I started locking her in the barn at night, because she seems to feel safer when the door is shut. I put food and bucket of water in with her because she can't get to the heated water or normal feeding area, and she seems to be eating and drinking ok now. Just very, very lonely I think....


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## Graced by Goats

Does Elsa have a home? I have 8 young wethers right now. They are being housed in the barn at the moment. I too live near your area. I’m in ellsworth. I would possibly take her my goats are Alpine and a Saanen. Let me know if you are still looking for her and you would be comfortable with my guys. I do plan on getting more goats really soon. But I’m thinking Nubian. What’s one more pet?

It does sound like you have found her a really nice home however. Good luck Elsa.


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## toth boer goats

How kind of you to do that.  :neat:


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## Caeles Hills

Graced by Goats said:


> Does Elsa have a home? I have 8 young wethers right now. They are being housed in the barn at the moment. I too live near your area. I'm in ellsworth. I would possibly take her my goats are Alpine and a Saanen. Let me know if you are still looking for her and you would be comfortable with my guys. I do plan on getting more goats really soon. But I'm thinking Nubian. What's one more pet?
> 
> It does sound like you have found her a really nice home however. Good luck Elsa.


Thanks so much! I still am waiting to get her to her new home, but if it doesn't work out yes would be interested in accepting your offer. I just want her to have companions again, she loves to be in a herd. She is a very beautiful and de-horned Alpine. Brown Chartreuse color with a white perfect ring around her snout. Will keep you posted! We are all trying to get shoveled out around here so I think she will be moving tomorrow.


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## Graced by Goats

Caeles Hills said:


> Thanks so much! I still am waiting to get her to her new home, but if it doesn't work out yes would be interested in accepting your offer. I just want her to have companions again, she loves to be in a herd. She is a very beautiful and de-horned Alpine. Brown Chartreuse color with a white perfect ring around her snout. Will keep you posted! We are all trying to get shoveled out around here so I think she will be moving tomorrow.


We got clobbered with snow too. Her housing setup here wouldn't be ideal for a little while. My guys are in an enclosed area in the barn that's roughly 10' x 12'. It's getting tight in there. The boys have grown much faster than we anticipated. We thought we would have a few more month before they hit the 50-60# mark. I'll put a couple of pictures up for you, so you can get a vague idea of what I can offer in the immediate future. I know she's going to need to be somewhat isolated for a period of time. I'm wondering if you or anyone else in here would know if having Elsa and one of my guys vet checked would be adequate for the best interest of all 9 goats? I know she would still need to be separated for at least a couple of days so they can get accustomed to each other. That would also give the vet time to get any lab or test results back. I'm new with goats. But I've had animals my entire life. She's been all alone for at least an entire week. She gotta be lonely. But, I also don't want to stress any of the goats by moving to fast, if this girl does end up living on our farm. We have pigs of all sizes, about 30 of them, most of them are three months or younger. Four rabbits. We also have three barn cats. One of which likes to spend time in the goat pen getting nibbled on, pawed at, or chased after. He also grooms the goats. Goofy cat. We have every intention of having a nice sized area outside with a well thought out goat barn/house. We may have to wait until a bit of the snow goes away and the temps warm up which is unfortunate.


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## Graced by Goats

@Caeles Hills , I did start a conversation with you.


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## Trollmor

I think it is wise to have them separated for a couple of months, to let them slowly get acquainted to one another's micro flora.

But what is a dutch door?


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## Graced by Goats

Trollmor said:


> I think it is wise to have them separated for a couple of months, to let them slowly get acquainted to one another's micro flora.
> 
> But what is a dutch door?


A Dutch door is a door that is cut in half. It has atop and a bottom. This type of door restricts comings and goings but doesn't restrict air flow.


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## Trollmor

Thanks!


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## Graced by Goats

Trollmor said:


> I think it is wise to have them separated for a couple of months, to let them slowly get acquainted to one another's micro flora.
> 
> But what is a dutch door?


This is a Dutch door.


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## Trollmor

Graced by Goats said:


> This is a Dutch door.
> View attachment 146481


Thank you again!


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## Caeles Hills

Elsais finally at her new home. Here are some of her hopefully new friends!


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## dreamacresfarm2

I also have a goat cat. He is always in the barn when we are working with the goats. His favorite time is kidding, he gets in with the laboring mom and licks and kneads her. He loves all the babies and plays with them.


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## Caeles Hills

Ok have a question. We started putting them together today and my goat is head on with one of the little goats. The other little goat stays out of it. There was lots of BITING on each others face, sticking out their tongues at each other and flapping their tongues, and then when my Elsa knocked the other one over on her back, we intervened. Then suddenly Elsa just stood and ignored the aggressive one for a long time. She was just staring out in the distance. Then she walked over to the pony and nuzzled him. He is sweet to her and she seems to prefer him just as she did my horse when my horse was alive. Then they all started eating hay and so we put Elsa back in her pen ending on a good note. She has gel in her vulva and appears to maybe be in heat? Has anyone else seen the biting and licking each other like the two does were doing while they fought? Thanks so much!


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## Trollmor

If licking is combined with flapping with tungue, it is probably sexy, although this can be both with and without heat. If licking is combined with deliberate biting of ears and other protruding parts, it is most probably aggressive. Fight head to head, or pushing sides, is a discussion about rank, completely according to the rule book!

(Edit: Better choice of a word.)


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## Caeles Hills




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## Caeles Hills

This is her second day loose with the herd and she seems content. At least I am hoping she is. This is what she did all afternoon. Everyone was kind of napping off by themselves like her. She had her head on her back (see pic) is that a good or bad sign?


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## ReNat

Caeles Hills said:


> This is her second day loose with the herd and she seems content. At least I am hoping she is. This is what she did all afternoon. Everyone was kind of napping off by themselves like her. She had her head on her back (see pic) is that a good or bad sign?


It looks like a healthy goat that catches the sun's rays.


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## Caeles Hills

ReNat said:


> It looks like a healthy goat that catches the sun's rays.


Oh thanks I've been so worried about her she's been so sad. I don't want her to feel she's being dumped somewhere. I am flooding at my barn and barnyard right now but if she doesn't want to stay there I have a plan for a new barn on a high part of my lot. Just not sure how to tell if she is unhappy. Either way it will be several weeks before it's safe for her at my place.


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## toth boer goats

If she is eating and otherwise acting OK, that sleep pose is normal if she is OK. 

Is she laying around a lot?


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## Trollmor

Caeles Hills said:


> This is her second day loose with the herd and she seems content. At least I am hoping she is. This is what she did all afternoon. Everyone was kind of napping off by themselves like her. She had her head on her back (see pic) is that a good or bad sign?


I think she is taking a nice nap with her head nicely supported by the belly. If she would have looked upon her belly again and again, with wide waken eyes, that can be a sign of pain. But she is asleep, isn't she?

It is very _very VERY_ nice to read about a human really wanting all well to the animals!


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## Caeles Hills

Just an update! Elsa is coming home! I built her a " barn " inside my 3rd garage which has my indoor outdoor dog kennels, and where my barn cats live. It is on high ground and she even has her own bedroom because she likes to cave. She has been at the other farm about a month and still has no friends. She follows me and cries when I leave her and I really feel that although she would be fine for the summer I want to make sure she is in better shelter than a lean to in the winters. Turns out someone I show dogs with also raises and shows Ahsum Pygmy goats and two babies are coming to be Elsa's friends next week. They are dehorned and just wethered for me. The parents are extremely small about the size of a cocker spaniel so they shouldn't bother anyone. I named them Raisin and Cashew. For now will probably keep them in the new pen and barn I built and put Elsa back in her old pen and shelter which is dry now. So here we go again! LOL I just missed her SO much and promised her she could come home if she didn't love it at the new place. Will post some pics!


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## Caeles Hills




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## ksalvagno

Cute!


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## Dwarf Dad

Good for you!
Cute little snack goats.


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## toth boer goats

Cute.


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## Iluvlilly!

bellaismygoat said:


> Okay so here is my situation. I used to have two goats, but now I am down to one because one died. Now I only have one goat, and I keep her at a friends house who has a herd of goats. She is in a pen by herself at their house, and she is doing fine, but can still see and hear other goats. She has a "I'm only alive because I have to be" attitude, and seems like the kind of goat that would do okay alone... But I am still worried about her. I will be playing with her daily (I always have), and she will have a pasture and shed all to herself. Will she be allright if she's the only goat? Thanks.


I would try it maybe give her some treats!!!!:nod:


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## Trollmor

Good luck in making friends! To me, this solution seems the best.


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