# Doe Evaluation



## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

What are your thoughts on this doe? She is a grade Alpine doe, 1 1/2 years old, never bred. These are pictures from my county fair this year. She is away getting bred at the moment, so I can't take any new pictures. If they are wanted I can take updated pictures when she returns. Not the best pictures but these are all I have at the moment. (She is a bit chubby in these pics.)
She is due to kid in March. She is from a commercial dairy so I'm not sure what her udder will look like, but I think she has the frame for a capacious udder.

I'm thinking about registering her as an NOA. She is bred to a registered Alpine, so she will have Recorded Grade kids. Do you think I should register and show her or is it not worth it?

I'm not the best at evaluating goats but this is what I see.

Pros: Wide, robust doe-correct feet and legs-capacious with decent brisket extension-very smoothly blended-good general appearance
Cons: Not the most dairy, lean, refined doe-could level out her topline-she has a shorter neck


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

I think she is worth registering. She is a very powerful doe, but I'd have to see a picture of her from the rear to get a general idea for if she is going to have the room for a wide, well attached udder. To me, her topline is fairly level with the exception of her rump. That is her biggest fault. It is very steep and will most likely severely limit the height and capacity of her udder. Hopefully the buck she is being bred to can improve that in her daughters. I think you should definitely register her. If she doesn't turn out to be the best show doe, after she freshens, you can always show her kids. Plus it may help with selling them too.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Thank you! One more question. What would you call her coloring? Would she be a chamoisee?


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> Thank you! One more question. What would you call her coloring? Would she be a chamoisee?


No, I don't think she could be a chamoisee because she doesn't have the solid dark legs and her neck is lighter than her barrel. I think she is closer to a Cou Clair, but those have dark legs too. It's probably a combination.

https://alpinesinternationalclub.com/about-the-alpine-goat/alpine-breed-standard/

Here are some common Alpine colors.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Well, I couldn't find any rear pictures of this year, but I did find a few from last year. Not sure if this helps or not.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

She does have a selenium tail in those pictures. I didn't know signs of selenium deficiency at the time but have since figured that out and it is resolved.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Yes that helps. I still think you should register her. She seems fairly wide in the rear. She has a nice high, open, escutcheon, not as wide and u shaped as I'd like to see, but it's not pointed either. I think all around, she's an above average doe and should give you some pretty kids!


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> Yes that helps. I still think you should register her. She seems fairly wide in the rear. She has a nice high, open, escutcheon, not as wide and u shaped as I'd like to see, but it's not pointed either. I think all around, she's an above average doe and should give you some pretty kids!


 Thank you! I'm very excited for her kids this year, hoping for some does! Regarding color how would you list a combination of color on her registration papers? Or would you just choose one and list her as that?


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> Thank you! I'm very excited for her kids this year, hoping for some does! Regarding color how would you list a combination of color on her registration papers? Or would you just choose one and list her as that?


The first thing to do is to find the base color, then add markings or put broken chamoisee, broken Cou Clair, etc. Do you have a picture of her not shaved?


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

This is the closest thing I have to not clipped.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> This is the closest thing I have to not clipped. lol
> View attachment 165973


Aww! I hope you get a couple pretty does from her! She is lovely! That picture gives me a much better idea and I think you could mark her as a light chamoisee with white overlay on her legs. She has the dorsal stripe and you can see the black stripes going down the front of her legs.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Thank you for your help! When she freshens in March if I would post a few pictures of her udder would you take a look at them? I still need to learn exactly what I'm looking for in udders. I have a rough idea, but I could definitely use some work.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> Thank you for your help! When she freshens in March if I would post a few pictures of her udder would you take a look at them? I still need to learn exactly what I'm looking for in udders. I have a rough idea, but I could definitely use some work.


You're welcome! I certainly will!! And be sure to post some pictures of the sweet kids she has too!  Alpine kids are just precious with their big ears!


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Yes, they are! I'm super excited and I'll make sure to post some pictures!
This is the buck she is bred to. https://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001882457


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> Yes, they are! I'm super excited and I'll make sure to post some pictures!
> This is the buck she is bred to. https://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001882457


Very nice!! I'm not too familiar with Alpine lines, but the appraisal scores are great and there are lots of SG and CH designations in there!


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

I'm pretty new to registered goats, so I don't know a ton about herds, etc.. But the guy who owns this buck said Mamm-key is known to be a very milky herd, I believe they are based in Colorado.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

I like the doe, her feet & legs could be a little more correct but they are better than some of the alpines you see today. I have to wonder if her rump is really as steep as the pics show, she does't look like she's too happy about being setup in the pics, when they are mad/cold/scared they can tuck their rump. He does she look when she's not being handled? Our in the field?

Years ago, we registered our first lamancha under NOA. She was a $75 craigslist special  However, two lamancha breeders really encouraged us to register her under NOA and breed up. It was the best thing we did! Her body is decent, feet and legs could be better but she has a train wreck of an udder. We've used good bucks over her, and her daughters are amazing. Her 3 y/o daughter just finished her Championship, is an AR doe who has her * in all three categories. She has several BOB and Best udder or breed awards.
While she still could use some improvements, she's nicer than her dam and a wonderful do. That doe's daughters are already showing improvements over their dam and grand dam! Even though they may be grades, you can get some wonderful animals!


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I like the doe, her feet & legs could be a little more correct but they are better than some of the alpines you see today. I have to wonder if her rump is really as steep as the pics show, she does't look like she's too happy about being setup in the pics, when they are mad/cold/scared they can tuck their rump. He does she look when she's not being handled? Our in the field?
> 
> Years ago, we registered our first lamancha under NOA. She was a $75 craigslist special  However, two lamancha breeders really encouraged us to register her under NOA and breed up. It was the best thing we did! Her body is decent, feet and legs could be better but she has a train wreck of an udder. We've used good bucks over her, and her daughters are amazing. Her 3 y/o daughter just finished her Championship, is an AR doe who has her * in all three categories. She has several BOB and Best udder or breed awards.
> While she still could use some improvements, she's nicer than her dam and a wonderful do. That doe's daughters are already showing improvements over their dam and grand dam! Even though they may be grades, you can get some wonderful animals!


 In the first pic she isn't happy and it does make her rump look super steep. It doesn't look like that normally, however her rump could definitely be leveled out a bit. I will see if I can find any pictures of her in the field. She isn't home right now so I can't take any. However, she definitely isn't upset in all the pictures, she is a very chill goat in the ring and will normally just chew her cud. I'm just curious, what about her feet and legs aren't correct? This is an area I'm trying to learn more about.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I really like her. I'd buy her for my homestead/mixed breed herd without question. (If I still had them, I mean)

I see no problem with registering her NOA either.

Nice.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> In the first pic she isn't happy and it does make her rump look super steep. It doesn't look like that normally, however her rump could definitely be leveled out a bit. I will see if I can find any pictures of her in the field. She isn't home right now so I can't take any. However, she definitely isn't upset in all the pictures, she is a very chill goat in the ring and will normally just chew her cud. I'm just curious, what about her feet and legs aren't correct? This is an area I'm trying to learn more about.


Just saw this post! Her pasterns look very long, which isn't bad but they appear to be a little weak. Her front legs appear to turn out some. Nothing really bad, she is a nice doe! Just something to keep an eye on.

It'll be interesting to see if her rump levels out with kidding. As a young doe, one of our recorded grades got pretty steep which was unusual for us. She grew out of it, and has a fabulous rump now (she scored "Excellent" in rump at appraisal).


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

She’s a really nice doe. If you plan to show her, do register her as NOA. If you just want to register the kids as recorded grades, there is no need to register this doe as NOA, nor do I recommend it.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

Ranger1 said:


> She's a really nice doe. If you plan to show her, do register her as NOA. If you just want to register the kids as recorded grades, there is no need to register this doe as NOA, nor do I recommend it.


 I would like to show her as long as when she kids she has a decent udder. Even if she doesn't do well she is a great showmanship goat.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Ranger1 said:


> If you just want to register the kids as recorded grades, there is no need to register this doe as NOA, nor do I recommend it.


Why is that?


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Oliveoil said:


> I would like to show her as long as when she kids she has a decent udder. Even if she doesn't do well she is a great showmanship goat.


I would definitely continue showing her! How has she placed in the past?


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

She isn't registered yet, so I haven't taken her to any sanctioned shows. I have taken her to local and county fairs though and she has placed mostly at the top of her class and second a couple times.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Why is that?


Because it has no weight whatsoever in the kids' registration.

A completely unregistered doe bred to a registered buck produces recorded grade kids, that are labeled 50% of whatever the buck was.

A NOA doe doe bred to a registered buck produces recorded grade kids, that are labeled 50% of whatever the buck.

Makes no difference, and it costs to register the doe, no fun to tattoo, etc.

I would only register NOA if I wanted to go to ADGA sanctioned shows or participate in performance programs.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Ranger1 said:


> Because it has no weight whatsoever in the kids' registration.
> 
> A completely unregistered doe bred to a registered buck produces recorded grade kids, that are labeled 50% of whatever the buck was.
> 
> ...


That is true. 
I've done NOA because we do show, milk test and LA. Sounds like OP is wanting to show their doe, so I think NOA is a wonderful option for them.


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