# Feeding Questions



## JanLyn (Mar 16, 2012)

We have not had the most gentle introduction to the world of nigerian dwarf goats. We love these guys and are aiming for 2 whethers as pets and companions to our miniature horse. 

One already passed 4 days after coming home due to unexplained system shut down at 7 weeks, possibly some genetic thing. So sad. The other is 4.5 months old and a wonderful little guy and a real character. I cannot tell you how much we love him. When I say "little" I do mean little. He is only 13 lbs. which I understand is roughly half or less what he should be now. He came home already eating Purina Noble Goat feed that we continue to give twice a day, free choice hay and minerals. We *try* to give the guy a bit of baking soda and he sneezes it away. He is a good eater though. My question is, I know there is Ammonium Chloride in the Noble Goat. Our Vet yesterday said he'd like to see that given separate to know he is getting enough. We don't feel good about any changes and want to let him eat up the Noble Goat. Would it then be good to go to regular goat feed later by mixing them first and then how much Ammonium Chloride would you offer...or would you mix that in with his food? 
I want to make certain we take all precautions we can to reduce the chances of urinary calculi.

Also, our Vet checked him out thoroughly due to his size. He is not skinny/thin looking, rather tiny and well proportioned. I questioned if it could have been the cocci he had when being weaned and did very well responding to treatment. The Vet feels absolutely not, that it is a congenetal situation, most likely to do with his heart or liver. I was extremely relieved to learn it was not his heart. He feels that it was a problem when in utero with the liver- or hormones and that we have a fine chance of a healthy goat here, but he apparently will be a dwarf of a dwarf.

Has anyone had experience with this?

We think of all our pets here like people and want to do the right thing by all of them. Are there any other recommendations for feeding him?
I know some give Copper Bolus twice a year in our area and Selenium Paste. I just looked these items up on Jeffers online and they sell what seems to be enough for 150-500 lbs. of an animal! Would you recommend getting them? At what age would you begin to give him this? How on earth would you know how much to give a whether as small as he is?
I appreciate any info and patience with me. Our Vet is great, but in a hurry (understandably so) with questions.

Thanks so much!
Jan Lyn


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2012)

There is enough AC in Noble Goat. I feed about 500 kids that every year and have had no instance of UC in any of them. I would feed him free choice though to maybe get him to grow. What did you treat him with for Cocci? I know it is arguable but in my experience using liquid cocci treatments have a tendency to stunt the growth of growing kids. The biggest thing is to make sure he gets CD&T shots. It seems that Cocci as well as a lot of other problems are more easily controlled in kids that are UTD on vaccinations.
I never treat for Cocci if I am using P Noble Goat, and feed it until after weaning, and do not add AC to the feed in groups of kids that are eating it. I do add AC to the feed at the rate of 57gm's per 60lbs of feed when I use DDG only. Don't know if this helps but it sounds like he is doing good and PNG is a very good feed that will take care of those 2 problems. Copper bolusing is controversial. I did 30 head of Does as a control group and see no difference in appearance or worm load. I think that a good loose mineral like Purina for Goats is just as good since it is high in copper and that is what I feed free choice in Kane mineral feeders that I have added a wide baler belt as a lid to keep them from knocking off teh holder and to keep rain out. I also feed DE in my ground feed and do not have a worm issue.
Good luck with the little dude.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

So sorry you lost one.... 

As far as the weight on the little guy...13 1/2 pounds at 4 and a half months old is very small, even for a smaller slow growing Nigerian Dwarf. Were these kids bottlefed or were they raised by mama? Alot of breeders will bottlefeed kids but not all breeders will know how, especially those who are new to breeding goats.
I do have to disagree with your vet...there was very likely a cocci infection that caused just enough damage to the kids gut to prevent him from absorbing nutrition properly, leading to his very small size and if he was weaned at 7 weeks...I think he would have benefited from a longer period of time getting milk.

I don't feed Noble Goat but there are many who do and have great results, if he's eating it and it has the AC in it, keep him on it.
Because you have just the one little guy...and I will suggest getting another around the same age as a buddy for him, Manna Pro goat mineral comes in an 8lb bag and has AC in it...the size will be more than enough for 1 even 2 little goats and will last a good while, as far as supplements like Selenium or Copper...contact a breeder in your area to get an idea as to wether or not they have need to supplement their own goats and they may even supply you with the neccessities since most supplements come in large quantities and you'd need just a small amount. I do copper bolus my own as I have found that my goats are deficient...with doing alot of research, it took me a few years to figure out that my herd was lacking and even more research as to the why, and what to do about it...changing my minerals and breaking up the large cattle boluses into 2-3 gram doses given 2x a year has helped my goats immensely. 
You certainly could have had a fluke with the loss of the one due to a congenital defect BUT most breeders would notice if there was anything abnormal with a kid...such as a change in eating habits or rate of growth, death in kids can happen suddenly without warning but most often there is a slight difference in behavior beforehand that goes un noticed and isn't thought about until after the kid passes. Subtle changes and acting on them can make a difference.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Sorry for your lose 

Have you had fecals done? How often have the kids been wormed? What kind of wormer? Not all wormers are effective in all areas. And not all wormers kill all worms. 

Do you offer free choice loose goat minerals? 

We have Nigerians and this is what we do:

Dams get: copper bolus & wormed before breeding & Selenium/Vit E gel 3-4 times during pregnancy. They get CD&T vaccine 4 weeks prior to due date.

All of our kids were dam raised. They get Selenium Vit. E gel at birth. Coccidia prevention at 3, 6 & 9 weeks of age. Ivomec wormer at 7 weeks and again 10 days later. They get Selenium gel again at 8 weeks and they get copper bolused right before they leave for there new home. 

At 8-9 weeks of age our kids were 20-25lbs. We had one wether here until he was 12 weeks and he was around 30lbs. (We have a bottle raised buck the same age here that is 18lbs at 12 weeks. He seems so tiny! Our 4 week old kids are catching up to his size )

Kids & mom have free choice loose goat minerals. Our kids start eating a lot of minerals around 3-4 weeks of age.

At 2 weeks of age kids are separated from mom's overnight so we can milk the mom's in the morning. Kids are left with grain overnight. Our kids get purinia goat chow, black oil sunflower seeds & alfalfa pellets.

We buy the Ammonium Chloride from Hoeggers goat supply and sprinkle it over food and mix it in the minerals for all the wethers/bucks. 

Our adults range from 20" - 23" tall to give you an idea of the parents size.

Hope that helps a little bit.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

who is your vet? 

sounds like he might be a tad stunted from cocci but will even out in time as he grows older. Ive had that happen.

were his parents on the larger side or smaller? there are different sizes and types of nigerian dwarf goats so it can play a part in the over all growth of the kid. Some lines grow slower then others.

As to the noble goat feed - I wouldnt add any AC to it, its formulated to be what he needs. 

What kind of hay is he getting?


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## JanLyn (Mar 16, 2012)

Stacy, our mobile vet is Carl Seybolt. We've used him for years with our miniature horses also but he does goats too and I trust him.

This goat was bottle fed properly by an excellent breeder from birth and we got him at 11 weeks old. We were very careful and continued to bottle feed him a few more weeks and slowly weaned him. He was already eating good hay and PNoble Goat, no problem as well as minerals, no problem. He is a great little eater.

The cocci was a light case with just a few in the sample before we brought him home. Was treated with album and made a good recovery.

Thanks so much and for all the help. Want to do the very best by him. He is such a fun and affectionate goat. Our daughters are so attached to him and are with him throughout the day. Loves people! Everyone that visits too. Hoping he bulks up and most of all that he makes it....and yes, we can't wait to get another friend here for him as soon as possible.

Jan Lyn


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok I dont know that vet -- I know a few traveling goat vets in NJ thats why I ask.


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## Pananorea (Jul 6, 2012)

Hello, I've been wondering if coconut husks could be okay to use instead of hay. Its hard to find hay on an island... Any ideas? :?


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