# Mistake with LGD. Need advice . . .



## LexiLu (Mar 8, 2010)

This could be long . . . 

So we got a pyr puppy for our small goat herd, slowly introduced her, she has been living with a yearling doe and whether and does super well with them. Herds them into the barn every night and are often found all snuggled up together in the mornings. The little doeling especially can be very aggressive and dominant. More recently she's been chasing the dog and playfully headbutting at her. Dog will nip at ears and horns if she gets too close but usually they just have a good time mock charging at each other and playfully bouncing around. Perhaps I shouldn't have let them get away with that . . . 

Recently we bought a little yearling doe who had severely overgrown hooves. We trimmed them up but she seemed a little sore. We introduced her to the dog and yearlings in stead of putting her in with the older does (who are in with the buck). Everybody seemed to get along really well, though the dominant doeling pushed her around quite a bit. We let it go, they're goats, it's common. A few days ago we noticed the new doe had broken off the tip of one of her horns (it almost looked like it had been chewed off . . ) All along she's been acting extremely sore, dazed, often standing in the barn staring at the wall.

This morning after everyone got their morning feed, we just happened to be passing by the window overlooking the pasture and saw the dog dragging the new doe around the pasture by her back leg while the two yearlings repeatedly slammed her in the head . . . what the heck? and how to go about stopping it?

I'm assuming territory issues are at play. The doe and whether have been separated, the pyr has been moved into the big pasture with the buck and older does. I'm hoping they'll teach here that's not acceptable. (We have one doe who hates dogs and will not think twice about charging, which is why the pyr was put in with the yearlings to begin with). New doe is in her own pen in the garage under a heat lamp and appears ok. Hopefully she'll recover but I have no doubt they would have killed her if we weren't home at the time and didn't catch them in the act. 

Pyr knows it's wrong, cowers when yelled at and will not do anything in our presence. If we are outside she tried nothing suspicious, if she thinks we are outside, she's an angel. Unfortunately that leaves us hovering over our bedroom window watching for bad behavior, which makes it increasingly hard to reprimand her when something does go wrong as we're not in the general area . . . *sigh*


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

How old is the dog? I'm wondering if perhaps she was a bit too young to be put in with goats to begin with.


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## LexiLu (Mar 8, 2010)

She is almost 9 months now. Was placed full time out with goat at probably 7ish months. I know she's just a puppy and likes to play and chase but with was full blown gang behavior.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

This is a weird case... LGDs should be excepted members of the herd but they shouldn't participate in herd dynamics like that. It sounds like your LGD went after the new goat because HER goats went after the new goat. I'm not sure how you can correct that kind of pack mentality... One of my LGDs has never cared for any new goats that he didn't grow up with. The goats he grew up with, he will let them (and their kids) eat his food but any new goats get growled at if they try the same thing. That kind of stuff. So I never pen him with the goats. He's my free range guarder and predators have to get through him to even try to get into the goat pens. This way I avoid any trouble he may have with new goats when I'm not around. I don't think he would hurt one of them but I've chosen not to risk it by not confining him in close quarters with the goats he's not bonded with. Sometimes our LGDs aren't perfect and you just have to work around their quarks. Best wishes.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I think putting her in the pen with the older goats was a good idea. She's still a puppy and she is entering one of the stages where they can become difficult. My girl just turned two and I still have to occasionally correct her from nipping at the goats when they head butt her. 
I've never heard of a LGD dragging a goat and the other does head butting it. If you have Facebook though there is a group that I've looked to when I've had problems. They are very knowledgeable. I can post link or if you'd like I can ask them for opinions for you


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## LexiLu (Mar 8, 2010)

chelsboers - I'd love the link. any and all opinions at this point are much appreciated. Thanks


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

She's too young to trust fully, alone with the goats. She needs regular supervision and to be disciplined when she's caught doing something like that. It's not uncommon for LGD puppies to go through phases of chasing and playing with the stock. She should not be allowed to ever play or chase. I would also recommend getting another LGD, if you don't have one already. They really need a companion to rough house and interact with and the goats just don't work for that. Keeping her without a dog companion means she will be worse with the "playing" than if she had a friend.


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## LexiLu (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks KW Farms for the info. The problem is that she does nothing wrong when we are with her. Ever. She's perfect. Does not chase or run the goats at all. We do have other dogs, not really LGDs, but Australian Shepherds who are our loose farm dogs. We do let her out of the goat pasture to chase and rough house with the other dogs every day. I had contemplating getting another Pry. At this point, I'm concerned I'd end up with the same issue, but now two dogs ganging up on the goats . . . plus we really don't have the need or room for 2 LGD's. 

I understand that this is a dog I'm dealing with, and a puppy to boot, and she's not going to be perfect but now sure how to go about correcting the behavior now. I don't think she'd settle with living in the house until she's matured and out of the puppy phase.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LivestockGuardDogs/?fref=nf 
You have to be a member so just click join and ask away


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

She should be kept separate unless you're around to keep an eye on her. Put her in a pen so she can see and interact with the goats, but can't get to them. Or keep her out on a cable tie out when you aren't there would work too. I wouldn't let her out to play with the other dogs. She will start to view them as her pack and want to be with them instead of the goats. She should also learn where her boundaries are. If you're okay with her being out with the other dogs instead of in the goat pen then no problem, but if you want her to stay with the goats...you won't want her to think she can go out of her pen and have fun otherwise she'll start climbing or digging out when she wants to.


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## LexiLu (Mar 8, 2010)

She's only allowed out when we say it's ok to come out. There are strict rules as to the dogs entering/exiting gates unless we say it is 'ok'. She definitely see the goats as her 'herd' and not the dogs. Half the time when we let her out she doesn't even play with the other dogs, just sits on the hillside and watches everybody. I could try the tie out thing I guess. That was how we started and introduced her to the goat's in the beginning.


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