# Rut Roh. I have a bleeding doe... HELP



## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

This morning when I fed the does, I found some blood on Cozy's poll. I couldn't see anything that she cut herself on, so I kept looking. Turns out, Moony's bleeding from her lady parts. She wasn't supposed to be bred and Stacey assured me this wasn't normal for heat.... How concerned should I be? I'm not home. If she's aborting something, can she do it alone? I won't be home for another few hours.... :sigh:

Here's a photo, she was down on her front knees eating grain this morning. But that's normal for her, Cozy and Callie because I've been feeding them on the floor since they won't go out in the snow.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

typically one does not bleed from heat - but have you ever seen a "normal" heat cycle from her? Is she uddering at all? how long have you had her? Do you have any bucks with them? What is her temp?


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I haven't had her a full month yet, so that's why I keep checking them for heat everyday. This is the first goings on from Moony. I bought her... I want to say Jan 24th. She has a small droopy udder, but it's been the same since she's been here. I've noticed no growth. I currently own no bucks, so we're safe there. I didn't take her temp this morning since I was in a hurry to get out the door. Right now, I'm at my parents place waiting for my husband to get back. I can temp her in a few hours. I'm hoping I find no fetuses when I get home :tears:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

could she have just delivered before you got her?


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

If she did, I wasn't told about it. I haven't seen anything from her prior to this. 

I bought them from an AGS Director, so if I wasn't told about it, I'll be really po'd.


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## bheila (Jan 10, 2009)

One of my nigerian/pygmy does had a heat that looks just like your doe this past summer. It was just a little tiny blood and then normal goo.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Looks to me like she aborted. I had a doe a month along that aborted and looked just like that.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I've had no experience with abortion/miscarriage but I would imagine there would be a whole lot more blood.
A couple yrs ago my little girls came into raging heat with little pink periods that lasted a day or two.
Remember not all does show the same symtoms of heat, some are pretty quiet about it.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Depending on how far along they are there is more or less. If they abort kids 3 months and up there are visible fetuses and the placenta and all. 

The doe that I had that aborted at a little over a month just had a very tiny bit of blood and cam into heat a week to later. So there can be very little blood.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Well, I just got back in from the barn. The blood is pretty much gone, but you can still see it. She doesn't look goopy. She seems to be acting her same old self (except she won't let me near her bum and that's not like her), so it's not really effecting her eating or anything. I'll keep an eye out the next few days. Thanks guys, for all your help!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like an early on abortion -- she should be fine


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Breeder *just* emailed me back. Moony hasn't kidded in years and apparently was no where near a buck (although I saw otherwise)... she's insisting it's worms. Worms from her vulva?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Nope, no way that's worms.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

She's saying her vet friend is insisting it's worms and very very serious.... I didn't know worms could effect female reproductive organs /sarcasm. lol


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Shell...you've had these girls just about 3 weeks so it could be sign of a heat, and it is not worms, sorry but I've never seen a wormy goat "bleed" from the vulva.
Also, you had mentioned that Cozy had blood on her head....if Mooney was hit hard in the behind, even a "bald" head can hit hard enough to rupture blood vessels and that area is a sensitive place to begin with.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks Liz. Like I mentioned earlier, I haven't seen anything from her, so I assumed maybe she was bleeding a little during heat like a dog does. I wasn't sure, so I text Stacey.

Cozy only had a small drip on her. I'm surprised I noticed it. I was looking around at the fence thinking maybe she scratched her head on a stray piece of wire (because I've ripped 2 pairs of jeans on that gate this week! :roll. What I did *really* notice, is that Moony won't let anyone near her rear end. She's headbutting with full force over anyone trying to sniff her, which I saw 3 times while I was out there for about 30 minutes. I'm not 100% about this behavior, but when I thought Callie was in heat, Moony acted the same way towards her.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm not 100% sure how to respond to this... Email from the breeder.

"What did you reworm with? I was told there is a bad worm around now with good foothold in the northeast because of the damp summer and wet winter called barber pole worm that can be bad and hide in the vulva and other areas. Just know it would have been super difficult for her to be pregnant with no boys around. I was told there is alot more of this worm and it often goes unnoticed till you see blood."

FTR, she owns no less than 3 bucks all within 25 foot of cattle paneled does... Just sayin'.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Barberpole is a blood sucker that causes anemia in infected goats, IF you had a problem with them, your goats would be sshowing pale eyelids and unthrifty coats.....Ivermectin still works to get rid of them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I never heard of worms in the vulva area.... barbor pole worms.. creates bottle jaw.... not bleeding in vulva... when they are overloaded :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

A good head butt could cause bleeding - that is a good observation Liz. 

BP worms -- just as Liz described


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Just to add my 2 cents.....I'm no expert, but Barber Pole worms are a warm weather worm that hits during spring and summer......I was told per my vet they should not be a problem this far north during winter.... They also live in the stomachs.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks Denise


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

How is Cozy doing now Shell . . . has the bleeding stopped?

I have heard the same thing as Denise about barber pole, but I had read up on them this past summer when a friend lost a goat to them. Here's some info about what they ARE capable of during the winter . . . great, huh 

Controlling Goat Parasites -- Is It a Losing Battle?
By Anne Zajac, DVM, PhD

"Haemonchus larvae can also undergo a process called ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT where they sit quietly in the stomach following infection and don't become adults until several months later. This is an important adaptation for keeping the worm around through cold winters when eggs and larvae don't survive well on pasture. The worms that became arrested in the fall resume development in the spring and reproduce. "
full article here: http://www.goatconnection.com/articles/ ... _112.shtml


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes, I have read that also.....but even if they are in the arrested stage, they are sitting in there dormant.....they would not be causing issues, especially this bleeding.....but the arrested stage is why come spring/summer they can become so overwhelming. I delt with these darn worms last summer.....Ivermectin is not working well here any longer on barber poles, I have had to turn to Cydectin.....which I did not want to do......I have been advised, Cydectin for warm weather worms, Ivermectin for cool waether worms.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I haven't been out yet this morning. Really busy morning. However, I will text Stacey, so maybe she can update. I'm actually walking out the door in less than 5 minutes.

As far as the worms, they were supposedly UTD with Ivermectin. I gave them 4 straight days of overdosed Safeguard just because it's what I had and wanted to get some wormer in them. Their gums and eyelids are fine. I copy and pasted that because every time I've had to talk to this woman, I get conflicting information. She talks in circles and I find it very difficult to understand how she's had goats so many years and doesn't seem to know very much about them. :shrug: Like I said, I don't know everything, I'm not saying I do... but I've never heard of worms causing bleeding from genitals.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Worms should not make a doe bleed from her cha-cha. 

Hmm, I'd say it was either another doe that butted her back there or her aborting. Although, she doesn't *appear* to have aborted. I had a doe abort and the blood she have off was stringy and more bright red, rather than your girl's shade...

Hm, very weird. Curious to see what it turns out to be.


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

cdtrum said:


> Yes, I have read that also.....but even if they are in the arrested stage, they are sitting in there dormant.....they would not be causing issues, especially this bleeding......


I should have clarified. I didn't mean to suggest that the bleeding was caused from worms :shrug:. I just saw some barber pole info that had been posted and wanted people to realize that the buggers may be there, although they wouldn't be causing problems in the winter :wink:. Our friend lost his goat after kidding in the Spring.


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

k-n-p, no problem! I understand.....I had a wether with them last year, they can take hold fast .......they can be just awful!


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Its just a small amount of blood, cound be the begingins of aborting. But her "area" is quite swollen looking. She looks a good three months into a pregnancy, if shes aborting i would think you would seea kid. Bleeding a litte is not un heard of in a normal pregnancy. I would just watch her. make sure she is eating and drinking and those membranes are pink.
beth


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

sparks879 said:


> ...her "area" is quite swollen looking. She looks a good three months into a pregnancy...


I think Shell also said she had a droopy bag, but the breeder said she hadn't kidded in years. *So a general question*, do older does have a droopy bag even if they haven't kidded in years?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

> I think Shell also said she had a droopy bag, but the breeder said she hadn't kidded in years. So a general question, do older does have a droopy bag even if they haven't kidded in years?


Yes, does that have freshened more than once will not have the udder area of a doe that has freshened once....the udder is still there, not flat against the tummy like a young does would be. :greengrin:


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

> Yes, does that have freshened more than once will not have the udder area of a doe that has freshened once....the udder is still there, not flat against the tummy like a young does would be.


Just like me, I guess . . . after 3 kids, my tummy has some really attractive baggy skin. I could raise a kangaroo in there. Kidding . . . not THAT bad :ROFL:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Just like me, I guess . . . after 3 kids, my tummy has some really attractive baggy skin. I could raise a kangaroo in there. Kidding . . . not THAT bad :ROFL:


 HeHe..... too funny.... Aww...the rewards of giving life and your body worked so hard for it... :wink: :ROFL:


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