# Vegetarians



## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

Are any of you vegetarians? I am, sort of. I eat eggs, most are from my own chickens but they are molting, so we have been buying them. :x I currently drink store milk. I wish my mom could buy more milk from this guy that has a few well cared for holstiens. I am starting to try our goat milk, it has been hard getting used to it though. I also eat other dairy products. Sucks that cheese has animal rennet in it. :x My parents are meataholics. My mom has to have meat at least once a day. I don't eat meat or poultry. But I do eat fish, I love the taste and I need protein. I wish I could stop though. I am a veg because of animals mostly. It is terrible that so many foods now days have meat in them. It has been hard for me to find food to eat. I love ramen noodles, but they have beef fat in them, I do eat those though. I have only been a veg since about April '07. I really recommend you go to http://www.chooseveg.com. It shows you where animal products REALLY comes from. Its a little graphic though. But veg or not, I think you all should check it out. I would like to tell you all the each vegetarian saves about 95 animals a year. I am not trying to say no one should eat meat. [thinking it, but not saying it, kidding]. The web site also has health benifit, pics, videos, recipes, and veg-friendly restruants. Check it out. Hope to hear from any veggie people out there!!!!!


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## GSFarm (Oct 6, 2007)

I don't think I could live without eating meat. I eat so much of it a day.

Also not to be rude or make you change your ideas, I just believe that God put these animals on this earth for use to use and eat. Also since your family eats meat they'll still get enough for everyone and if you don't eat it someone else will won't they, and the animal is still dead.


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## sunshineandtulip (Nov 6, 2007)

Its your decision on if you eat meat or not But fish is not that great (depending on where you get it from too) because of the mercury that is found in it now. Check your ingredients on the package. Also I would rather eat the meat that I have raised then anything store bought.I know how it was raised and what was put into it.. The only thing we havent raised is beef. Its just to expensive. We love our goats milk too. If you have a buck close by it will affect the taste of your milk. I agree with GS God did put them there for a reason as he did the herbs of the field... But thats okay its your choice just dont think everyone should agree with you.


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## PACE (Oct 8, 2007)

I think it's great that you're a vegetarian. I do like the concept of it... I've considered becoming one, but honestly I like meat too much :roll: I think its not so much the idea of eating animals that bothers me, but the fact that the animals are often fed things that are unhealthy (for us and them) and kept in tight, crowded conditions then just killed... that's no kind of life I think anything should be subjected to. I mean, it's not the worst life an animal can have for certain, but I don't think that makes it much better. Like, chickens, I hate the idea of them living their whole lives in these cages just laying eggs until they die. Whenever we can we get eggs from a friend who treats his chickens like chickens, but that's a good life for them. They get to run around and pick at the grass and excercise. I disagree that animals are here just for us to use. They are living feeling, capable beings who do have the right to a good life, just like anyone. I don't think they are here simply for people.... they exist for themselves. Yes, we do domesticate them and keep them in captivity and use them as we wish, but they are not really _ours_ in the end, or I don't think so at least.

That said, I do respect people who raise their own animals for food, though I know that I could never do that. There is just that distance between a pig and a plastic wrapped package of ham in the supermarket. I don't think I could ever have a pig and know it and then eat it... Though it seems much better than factory farming. At least they are then cared for and fed healthy and allowed to actually live a life, for a while, anyway. When I get older I'm going to have a few chickens to give me eggs and a dairy goat, or maybe even a cow. Then I'll know that I got those foods from happy, healthy animals.


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

The way I see it, this planet is plenty big enough to accommodate both vegetarians and non-vegetarians. My 3 goats were on their way to the abattoir when I intervened and built them their own 'Shedgri la' right here on the prairies. I choose not to eat meat, but i don't try to convert anyone else over to my way of thinking. Seems like most everything we eat these days causes one form or another of some dreaded disease, both vegetables and critters alike. I freely admit to the fact that my reasons for not eating anything meat is that I'm just a big sucker. I like most all animals and can't mask the fact of their origin just because they are packaged in saran wrap and styrofoam.

As for eggs, milk and such; the way I look at it is, no critter had to forgo breathing so that I could eat an egg or drink some milk. Vegetarians and non-vegetarians differ only in how deeply they embrace the concept of animal sentience. It's kinda like the difference between involvement and commitment. With your typical bacon and egg breakfast, it's been argued that the chicken was involved but the pig was committed.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I never really thought about it, being vegetarian that is....I like meat and have tried different species too. I come from a family of hunters that hunt for food and not "trophies" mainly because my dads family was so large it was more beneficial to do "population control" in the woods than what it was to purchase from the grocery store. From the experience I had growing up and eating what we did to have full bellies, I'm none the worse for wear, mind you we also grew our own veggies and fruits as well as had goats to supply our milk, I have had rattler,rabbit,squirrel, bear, elk, beaver, turtle, groundhog, deer,froglegs, dove, grouse, ringnecks, goose, ducks and ****. Not real fond of the bear or frog but at the time it filled my belly and to this day I would rather have any of those as opposed to store bought meat. I do love my fruits and veggies but without human consumtion of "wild meat" the only population control would be the predators and our vehicles...so even if you choose to not eat meat....farmed or otherwise...there are those who like me, will do their part to control the wild population. I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other to each is their own, and if you think about it....some of the natural vegetable and fruit producers also use "natural" fertilizer to help their plants grow..which we know what that would be (most of the time)and is probably coming from the ,beef,pig and chicken farms that produce the meat for the omniverous people. This could very well end up being a subject that would get alot of strong replies....


> With your typical bacon and egg breakfast, it's been argued that the chicken was involved but the pig was committed.


I like that creatursall....you are right...but I do so love my BLT's...xtra tomato...lol


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I like meat too much to give it up! BUT I do try to buy FREE RANGE eggs and beef, as well as chickens.

BTW - I saw that video on the site you posted, it is so horrible how some people treat animals!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I haven't seen the video but I have heard enough to know that those types of things are out there BUT they are mostly promoted and widely spread as fact across the board because it promotes the agenda of those who are vegans and or animals rights activists.

Most farmers care for their animals because they know that they are their livelyhood. And just as we know how to care for our goats and other animals and they do better - have less disease and sickness which in turn keeps our costs down -they know this too.

There will always be a bad apple in the bunch - the problem is that they tend to get the spot light for their deplorable respect for animals then those who do the right thing day in and day out.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

True - but with some commercial farms people treat the animals badly and look at an animal and see $$$ NOT a living, breathing, feeling being.

There are definatly caring farmers who care about their animals, but with NAIS they are making it very hard for "small" farmers to make a profit. So that means that the commercial farms are just going to get bigger and bigger.


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## debpnigerians (Oct 20, 2007)

I have raised hogs, steers, and chickens for the freezer, and yes it is very hard when the time comes to take them to the processor. BUT I know that the animals have had an excellant quality of life in my care, much better than most of their kind get, and I was careful to check out the facility I use to make sure they are as effecient and humane as possible. I don't like buying store meat; I don't know what the animal was fed or how it was treated, and frankly the flavor is like comparing packaged snack cakes to grandma's made-from-scratch brownies that won blue ribbons at the county fair every year. And yes, I have eaten goatmeat, from goats I raised, and I enjoyed it. But I won't try to talk anyone out of being vegetarien, because I agree with a lot of what many of them think. Just don't go around calling me names and making companies change famous recipes that the majority love because the minority find beef fat being used to fry french-fries in offensive.


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## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

I think it is great that many of you raise your own meat. What I'm not to fond of is factory farming. Those ''factory farmers'' do things as cheaply as possible, even if it means being cruel, to meet the huge need of very cheap store bought meat. I personally don't plan on raising meat animals, though I would like to raise organic heritage turkeys, but that is about it. But I do respect those of you greatly who raise there own meat, which comes from MUCH happier animals during their growing period. I may feel differently about meat if it comes from local farmers. But I will be honest, I have never had chicken other than cornish x, grassfed beef, free range hogs, or any of that such. My mom has no interest in buying that stuff. She said she was going to buy half a cow from our neighbor who takes very good care of his grassfed beef. But she never did.


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## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

Also, I have heard about the NAIS, but are they actually enforcing it?


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## Rockytopsis (Oct 5, 2007)

Nupine, for some reason or other I could not access the page you recomended. I just would like to add that I eat meat, but I also love my veggies. Well everything but collards LOL. My winter garden of greens is doing great. We are in the process of raising our own meat and DH hunts and we eat what he gets. I do our garden every year and am quite busy harvesting and preserving the goodies from there.

I think the home grown meat is much more healthier than the store bought stuff.

I would also like to add that mercury is not in all fish. The pond raised fishes are ok. It is mostly the larger fish that comes from the ocean.


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

I am not a vegetarian, however there's alot of meats that I won't consume. I eat mainly fish, and I eat chicken and eggs perhaps once per week if that. I don't eat ANY pork whatsoever. I'll even pick off the pepporoni from pizza. I don't eat beef at all - unless there's NOTHING else to eat - like if we have NO fish or Chicken, etc., and I'm making something with beef for my husband - THEN and ONLY THEN will I eat beef, but if I can help it - I won't touch the stuff. Now my husband DOES hunt. For meat, NOT for trophy. But he only goes deer hunting - he doesn't really get into anything else. So when deer seasons in - if he gets a deer, then yes, I'll eat venison. But that's mainly just in winter that the venison meat will last us. So MAINLY - year round - I mostly just eat fish and some chicken. 

HOWEVER - I'm this way for a few reasons - not JUST for the sake of the animal's life, etc. I won't eat ANY pork becaue pork really isn't good for you, and it's HIGH in parasites. And contrary to what most ppl think - you cannot COOK parasites out of your meat. They can withstand higher temperatures than what you'll EVER cook your meat at. Your meat would be completely charcoal if you were to cook it hot enough to even possibly kill the parasites. Same with any Shellfish. Shellfish is high in parasites and toxins. Shellfish are the same species as roaches. They're scavengers of the ocean - they eat anything dead on the ocean floor. ALot of the things they eat have died from toxins, poisons, etc. in the ocean. so then the shellfish ingest that, and then we ingest the shellfish. Which is the reason why alot of ppl end up in the hospital from shellfish poisoning. And believe me - I LOVE shrimp ! LOVE IT ! But I won't eat it. I only eat it for SPECIAL occassions, and then I follow up with doing a detox for my body to rid myself of any parasites / toxins.
I won't eat BEEF because it's really not that good for you either - it's hard for our bodies to digest, and plus it's high in Uric Acid (what makes up urine). And most beef is very fatty. And anything that's hard to digest is not good for your health. 
Like I said - I will eat chicken. But I try to buy chicken that's atibiotic and hormone free. And I also strive to get free range chickens if possible. My Grandparents butcher their FREE RANGE chickens and I try to get some from them if they have enough.
I also purchase ONLY organic eggs from free range chickens.

So my main meals contain - protein drink for breakfast, a salad, or a protein drink for lunch, and fish with cooked veggies or a raw salad for supper. 

Nupine - If you have a problem getting enough protein - get protein drinnks. I love my protein drink ! I couldn't live without it :wink: 

BTW - although I don't consume very much meat due to health reasons - Animal Cruelty, etc. may play a little part in my mind as well. But I also beleive that there are alot of farmers out there as Stacey said - that are good to their animals. And also - I myself cannot make a difference in wether or not the cruelty to animals would continue to happen. There's MANY MANY consumers that purchase their meat and just MYSELF won't make any difference in that. So it's kind of a lost cause (in my opinion) to stop eating meat just because some farmer is raising their livestock in a cruel manner. So my reasons for not eating some meats is mainly for health concerns.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I meant they are _going_ to make it very hard for farmers with NAIS :lol: Sorry my brain wasn't awake when I wrote that.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Julie - I don't eat crab or shrimp or pork.. or lobster or catfish or clams etc..... For the reasons you posted, I too pick the pork off the pizza lol


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

First off, it is not true that most farmers don't care about the health of their animals, and farmers certainly don't abuse their animals. Yes, there are some farmers that abuse their animals or don't take care of them or care for them but those farmers DO NOT speak for the rest of the farmers that know the importance good animal husbandry.


> True - but with some commercial farms people treat the animals badly and look at an animal and see $$$ NOT a living, breathing, feeling being.


Actually, like I said above, not every farmer treats their animals badly. It is only a handful, and unfortunately, it is those stupid people that give the rest of the good farmers a bad reputation. Sure, every farmer looks at dollar signs, because most of the farmers are in farming as a business. Yes, some farmers do things as cheaply as possible but sometimes that is because they do not know of another way, or that is the way that they were taught to raise their animals. More and more farmers have come to realize the importance of animal welfare, ie keeping the animals happy and comfortable. I read articles all the time about how farmers are making improvements on their operations like allowing more sunlight in the facilities, less pen crowding, less noise, clean housing and better bedding systems etc have allowed animals to be in a less stressful environment. In the end, from a business perspective, its all about efficiency. It is more efficient to raise an animal in a controled environment than it is to have them pastured. Just because they are in a confinement does not mean they are not happy. I have been to several cattle confinements and dairies and all the cows I saw were happy and healthy. How do I know they are happy and healthy? They are bright eyed, slick coated and they are chewing their cud. Herd health is always and important thing in the eye of a farmer, sick stock equals less gain and more money that has to be put into making them better. Preventative methods as well as keeping your stock healthy in the first place is always easier and cheaper than taking care of a sick animal. 
Now pigs, I don't know about pigs, I'm not a pig fan to begin with so I don't know if they are happy or not.
I would like to say though, more and more farmers are coming to realize the importance of niche markets, ie pasture raised livestock. They are also realizing that hormones and anti biotics that animals are given nowadays really lowers the productive life and longetivity of their animals.
And you know, as far as cheap food goes, that's what people want is cheap food. If food were to get expensive people would complain about it. Not everybody cares where their food comes from, most people just want it cheap.

We raise our own animals for our own consumption because it simply tastes better. We raise our own goats and chickens for meat, milk and eggs and we practice natural animal husbandry. We are not organic(I am extremely anti organic) we are simply natural. We don't use anti biotics unless we have to and we don't vaccinate our goats, herd health is our #1 priority. We buy beef from our local butcher, and they buy local beef, not necessarily grass raised but the beef we buy is much better than beef you get in the store.
I am not vegetarian for a couple reasons, 
1) I like meat, 
2) if I don't eat meat I get really bad migranes, I eat about 2 meat meals a day.
3) I like meat, 
4) as humans, we really and truly aren't meant to eat a green diet, we do not have the digestive system like a ruminant that can absorb all the nutrients from greens. I still eat my vegetables, but personally I think that if we could chew our cud and had 4 stomaches, we'd get more benefit from our vegies. I mean, after all, humans are omnivores, not herbivores
5) soy(which is how most vegetarians eat for protien) is not really that healthy for you. From doing my own research and from my own personal experience, it does more damage to our bodies and immune systems than good. 
6) meat has certain vitamins, minerals, fats and protiens that you cannot get from any other source of food.
That is just my 2 cents, for all its worth. We are all allowed an opinion


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

If I had to ever see the animals I was going to eat, then I would NOT eat it. It is something about seeing the animal. I know that what they are raised for, but no me. 
Once I look into those eyes, they are pets. My DH wants to get a steer and raise it to butcher. NO WAY, not on my property. I could by one from the sale barn and butcher that one, but I know it would bot be as good of meat as I would like. That is why there is NO WAY that we could ever do market animals in 4H.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh, I don't eat pork, because of the reasons Julie said about parasites, also because pork is as close to human flesh as you can get. I'll eat ham every once in a while but thats it. I also don't eat a lot of fish because of hte mercury thing.
I am for animal welfare, not animal rights. I eat the animals I raise because I can't find a good home for every single buck that is born here. On a couple occasions, I sold animals as pets and they went to homes where they were neglected and uncared for. After that I said no more. I would rather eat an animals, put it out of the pain and suffering it might face, than to see it go to a home where it would be neglected and mistreated.
I could never butcher an animal that I raised myself though, I can eat one and have eaten one, but I have never killed one of my own animals.


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## Sara (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm a vegetarian, although I do eat chicken. Mostly because I'm out and about and it's hard to find vegetarian meals on the go.

However I'm working towards being fully vegetarian. =)

I just think it's sad that people raise animals for meat, especially because I was raised where animals are friends. They aren't objects. They have favorite foods, and personality's, and likes and dislikes. It makes me sick to eat one.

On that note, I don't need to force my beliefs on others so I'm fine with other people doing what they feel is right.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I'd rather pay more for grass fed, free range, HEALTHIER beef and chicken, knowing they had a more natural life than being confined in a pen getting stuffed with antibiotics and being fed unatural food. But that's just me I guess :wink:


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

goathappy said:


> I think that if we ... had 4 stomaches, we'd get more benefit from our vegies.


I just did a quick check of my profile in the mirror and do believe I may have counted 4 stomachs :ROFL:


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## Rockytopsis (Oct 5, 2007)

Julie

"I follow up with doing a detox for my body to rid myself of any parasites / toxins."

How do you do that ? I would be interested in hearing about it. 

Nancy


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## hornless (Oct 5, 2007)

I am also a vegetarian, no meat poultry or fish. Most vegetarians eat fish, I just disagree with overfishing, it's been happening a lot. Basically, I don't eat any type of animal (not sure I I left an animal group out)


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

Rockytopsis ...
There's different detox's out there. The one that I have a book on is by MD Don Colbert and the book is called Toxic Relief.

There's two ways of doing it - the WHOLE version, and the SHORT version.
The WHOLE version is actually a 4 weeks process. For the first 2 weeks you eat mainly fruits and veggies. You do not eat any meats or grains or sugars. Then after 2 weeks of that - you start a JUICE FAST for no longer than 3 days. You juice any fruits or vegetables that you like. But that's it - you can only have the Juiced Fruits/Veggies for your meals. THEN after your JUICE FAST is over - you have to ease back into eating solid food - you only EAT fruits and vegetables for the first week. THEN after that you can start eating grains, meats, etc. again.

The SHORT version of doing it is to JUST do the 3 day fast. 

The difference is this - the WHOLE version detoxes your liver as well and prepares your body for the fast. 

The SHORT version detoxes you - just not quite as MUCH as the WHOLE version would.

A Drawback to some ppl - you do need to know that when you do a juice fast - you may feel really tired and have symptons similiar to the flu. Its from all the TOXINS leaving your body - that's what causes you to feel this way. So it's actually a GOOD thing, but at the same time - unpleasant of course.

ALSO - you can also purchase herbs, etc. FOR detoxing your body of parasites, etc. I use a product from Vitamin World called "The Cleaner". There's a women's formula AND a men's formula. There's one that's a 7 day, and there's also a 14 day. I use the 7 day. It's in capsule form.

To MAINTAIN your colon, etc. it's good to drink herbal tea that has "Milk Thystle" in it. OR you can also find herbs in capsule form as well. And of course eat lots of fiber


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

how about an option for people who don't like eggs?  

I couldn't live without meat. I love eating meat, I don't care which types I eat, - well I don't like seafood. I've seen animals butchered, I've plucked turkeys, I've drawn the innards out of animals...

and I'm a carnivore through and through...

well I do like vegetables too... but I'm primarily a carnivore...


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## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

GoatHappy, I am NOT trying to tell anyone what to do. I am simply open to my opinion just as you are. Just as Sara is, I have been raised to think of animals as friends. I sounds dumb, but I hold my chickens, hug them, rock them like babies, and I give my goats kisses. That is how my mom is too. But not my dad, he wants a beef steer but we won't let him. I also could never raise a 4-H market project, I did chickens once, and I would take turkeys this year but they don't have that.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I never said you were trying to tell anybody what to do, I'm just saying my opinioin, as you are saying your opinion.


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

Hey now...there is plenty of room for both vegetarians and non vegetarians. I am happy that you are who you are. To each their own.


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

I too cannot eat an animal if I see it before it is butchered!!! Too much heartache. I do eat deer though.


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

alyssa_romine said:


> Hey now...there is plenty of room for both vegetarians and non vegetarians.


Whenever I return to The Goat Spot after any kind of absence, I always take a look at the scrolling RECENT TOPICS on the left side of the home page. Just now, in succeeding order, the first 3 topics were:

Vegetarians
Can I breed them?
Babies! Babies coming soon!

Seems like some folks are gettin' along maybe too well :laugh:


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

HEHEHE!! That is so funny!!!!!


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

You crack me up!! That it TOO funny!


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

LOL that's to funny :lol:


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## eliya (Nov 20, 2007)

Lots of great responses here. I do not eat much meat, but do eat free-range chicken/turkey on occasion and enjoy GRASS fed beef and goat at times (we rarely have meat more than once a week). The only meat I've had in the last 3 months was a small piece of chicken. I also feel that pork and other 'garbage collector' type animals are very unhealthy.

Oh, I also love my cheese and other dairy products. Made with goat milk is best of course! 

Veggies are great and there are lots of places to get protein besides animal products - Lentils, beans, Quinoa and veggies... Quinoa is a complete protein and so is rice with beans.

To tell the truth, I think different body types need different diets. My dad needs his meat, or he doesn't do well. My mom can't eat grains in the morning and I can't eat veggies for breakfast. I think you have to find what your body does well with and go with that.


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## eliya (Nov 20, 2007)

HA, HA, HA!!!!!!! I didn't see that post before I posted mine! I think I should have refreshed my page before posting. That is SOOOOOOOOOOO funny!!!


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## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

That is sooooooooo funny!!!!!


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