# Pygmy conformation



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Everyone has such beautiful goats and I've learned so much about goat conformation, but I'm breeding Pygmies and it seems to be a very different standard! I've checked the NPGA website for conformation and I guess they are supposed to be such lumpy cobby little things. 

I'd love to have some direct input on my girl, but I haven't actually come across many Pygmy enthusiasts here. Is there anyone with experience showing Pygs who can help critique Peggy Sue and offer insight as to what sort of buck I'd want to breed her to?

I'll post pics if anyone is interested. Thanks!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Here are some pygmies, bred by a show judge, so she knows her conformation  http://www.citylightspygmygoats.com/

Ps. These have the older styled body type. The newer body type is much more compacted ... which unfortunately contributes, sometimes, to kidding difficulty.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Maria reminds me of Peggy Sue! 

Peg is of the more "cobby" style. It screws with the topline and I just don't know how to compare her to other pygs. :-/

Edit: on second look it turns out some of her goats are related to Peg! She's Proverbial Pygmies/Amber Waves, too!


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

She's a princess, not a show goat, so positioning her is almost impossible, but here's a few shots. For some reason her head looks HUGE in some of the pics...


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## MoKa-Farms (Jun 19, 2013)

She looks lovely.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

She is VERY nice! A wee bit short-boddied, but her rump isn't bad at all.  She looks sort of like my cobbier Nigerian ;D That Nigerian thinks she's a heavy milking meat goat.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

Omggoodnessss she's tiny!!! She's like the height of my boys and they're about ten weeks old LOL


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

ThreeHavens said:


> She is VERY nice! A wee bit short-boddied, but her rump isn't bad at all.  She looks sort of like my cobbier Nigerian ;D That Nigerian thinks she's a heavy milking meat goat.


She's supposed to be pretty cobby, she was bred to the new show standard, but I'm not sure how short bodied she should be!

Piccolo; isn't she precious? That's why I let her live inside.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

So, does a judge's personal preference have an effect on how shows are judged?

I was looking through the pics of this year's show champions and the body types differed very greatly among does. Some shows the heavily muscled, longer bodied does won, and some went to the shorter, more dainty girls like Peg. I haven't shown, but want to breed show quality Pygmies, so it's important to breed for the right characteristics.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Yup, the judges really should go off the breed standards, but their own opinion greatly influences their decision.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Ok. After exhaustive research I give up. There doesn't seem to be a consistent breed standard outside of coloration. Here is Peggy Sue compared to two different Grand Champion Senior Does. Depending on which champ you look at Peg is either nearly perfect or just short of cull worthy. 

How can a slender, delicate looking doe with limited depth and a graceful neck AND a barrel of a girl with a flat back and no neck BOTH be Grand Champs?


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Nigerian breeders go through the same thing. So it comes down your personal opinion of the breed. I don't know very much about the pygmy breed, but I know Peggy is a special girl!


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Guess breed standards should be changed to "judge preferences". :GAAH: :hair:


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

I had an ADGA judge here today, and we talked about "preferences". And I can say it would be interesting to show under her. She was honest and stuck to her guns about the breed standards. It was refreshing for me as a nigerian breeder that she valued dairyness in the breed. So not all hope is lost. Maybe there is a judge that would be willing to clarify the pygmy standard for you.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

i think peggy would look alot like the first one with the same clip job and no horns. the second doe is really old fashioned and i like peggy way more than her. jmo


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

enchantedgoats said:


> i think peggy would look alot like the first one with the same clip job and no horns. the second doe is really old fashioned and i like peggy way more than her. jmo


Thank you! 

Peg is a great doe with very good lines for a non-show goat. If yer ever bored you can find her pedigree by looking up her registered name, Picture Perfect Passionate Kisses. I've found pics of her sire and her siblings that way.

I think that as the breed characteristics shifts from a heavy "meat" look to a more delicate "dairy" look that until the NPGA amends the show standard judges should have to penalize the goats that don't fit the current guidelines. I feel the same way about the Boer controversy regarding tubular vs. traditional animals. And I say this even though I have one of the "new" Pygmies!

A standard is a RULE, not a suggestion, otherwise what is the point?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

You pretty much show them the same as you would as a meat goat, since, after all, they are a meat goat. Just judge them as a cobby boer


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Maybe some of this will help you:

http://www.npga-pygmy.com/resources/conformation/NPGABreedStandard.pdf
http://www.npga-pygmy.com/resources/conformation/conformation.asp
National champions: http://www.npga-pygmy.com/services/nationalchampions.asp

I had pygmies when I first started in goats. Some looked like little mini beef cows...and some looked more like nigerians. They weren't papered and I was just having fun with them and raising babies for pet homes. I think they're a neat breed, but I've seen a lot of good breeders sell out and am noticing less and less of them around. Hopefully there are still good breeders out there improving the breed. I wish i'd see more of them around!


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

In CA there are some very good breeders. Amber Waves and Proverbial Pygmies are the two big ones, but there are others. They have different lines depending on what you want. The show standard is still barrel chested, but since Pygs have really become an "ornamental" breed more and more people want the delicate look. Peg is from one of the new daintier lines.


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