# is this a good goat food?



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

So... i want to bulk up some of my bucks

Can this food cause UC? And is it a good food for goats? 

I included a pic of the nutrional info and ingreidents


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Sorry the first pic is kinda blurry


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

This is what my feed store sells
Its not a loose mineral its like a grain type its not powdered


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm not an expert but I think it would be an ok feed. But you need to feed some alfalfa with it to balance the calcium to phosphorous ratio.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

How much alfalfa? 

Sorry i am very confused what do you mean to balance calcium to phosphourus ratio?


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Goats need a 2 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. In other words, goats need twice as much calcium as phosphorous in their total diet. Too much phosphorus and not enough calcium can lead to urinary calculi in bucks and wethers. 

If I feed an unbalanced grain, I usually feed twice as much alfalfa pellets as I do grain. So if giving one cup of grain, feed 2 cups of alfalfa pellets. This is a generalization. It can vary a lot depending on how out of whack the calcium to phosphorous ratio is of the grain you feed.

There are old threads that show you how to work out the math so you can calculate exactly what your goats total calcium to phosphorous ratio is if you want to get really technical.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree,

it is a good grain, but I would get a grain and add it to the ration with ammonium chloride in it or get the powder form of it and put it in the grain. In case.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

they dont sell the powderd form of it 
so loose mineral doesnt cause UC?

ammonium chloride where do i get that? and in what way does this help the goat?

thanks


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

BOERKING said:


> they dont sell the powderd form of it
> so loose mineral doesnt cause UC?
> 
> ammonium chloride where do i get that? and in what way does this help the goat?
> ...


Loose minerals do not cause urinary calculi. All goats should have access to loose minerals.

Ammonium chloride can be purchased at most feed stores. You can buy it online from Jeffers or Amazon as well.

Ammonium chloride helps to prevent urinary calculi. It is also a treatment for urinary calculi in higher doses. Most goats hate the taste btw.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

so in my loose mineral should i add some ammonium chloride and mix it and offer free choice?

and about that goat text should i also offer it free choice?
i want to buy Sweetlix 16:8 Meat Maker® with Rumensin is that suitable for free choice? even though it has cocodius prevention? or should i go with regular

and to just clarify 

offer loose mineral maybe (sweetlix) not sure which one 
and offer goat text free choice
and put in some ammonium chloride into the loose mineral for UC prevention?
and i should be all set to go?
thanks


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Ammonium chloride: 
Nobel goat grower grain has it in it, tractor supply has it, so check any grains and see if it has ammonium chloride.

Otherwise, the powder form can be ordered online as mentioned.

Do not mix it in the minerals. Just put it as top dress on their grain, if you get powder form, it is a small amount and should have instructions on label.

Noble goat grower: if you feed the right amount, it should be OK, add it to the other grain you want to feed.


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I've never given ammonium chloride daily. But I believe most people sprinkle it on their grain. It tastes really bad. If you put it in their loose minerals, they may never really eat it. 

I never give grain free choice unless in a creep feed for kids. All of my adults would gleefully commit suicided by way of grain if I would let them. So I'd say feed your buck a cup or two once or twice a day and gradually increase until he's eating enough to gain and maintain the weight you want.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Here i found this at my co op 2:1 would i still need the ammonium cloride?

Yeah my goats would cross a river for grain LOL


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Sorry its blurry


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

That 2 to 1 mineral looks like a good one to me. 

The calcium to phosphorous for all of your bucks diet has to be 2 to 1 to prevent urinary calculi. Having a balanced mineral helps but the grain is still unbalanced. Most grass hay is 1 to 1 but they can vary quit a bit usually with more phosphorous than calcium. That's why most people that feed grain feed some type of alfalfa to balance the ratio. Alfalfa is around 5 to 1 calcium to phosphorous.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

But if give the buck 1 or 2 cups of grain not free choice just daily for his food can it give him UC? Even though the loose mineral is out?


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Can you read the Note part on the label? It says can cause hypomagnesamia because inadaqute magnesium should i be concerned for goats?

Also is this 2:1 mineral safe for does? And pregnant ones?


----------



## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

BOERKING said:


> But if give the buck 1 or 2 cups of grain not free choice just daily for his food can it give him UC? Even though the loose mineral is out?


I would recommend skipping grain all together. For my boy (he's a wether), I typically have out free choice grass hay and he gets a few cups of alfalfa pellets at night.

I just like to avoid any possible source of UC, especially if it's not something they need. You could probably get away with a cup a day without any complications.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I give grain, such as, noble goat grower or a grain that has ammonium chloride in it for the first year of any buck, 2 x a day, after 1 year, it is every so often to keep away stones. May 2 or 3 x a week. I feed the recommended amount the grain states.

I do feed everyday, Alfalfa free choice to my bucks as they grow for 1 year, then at 1 year, I feed Alfalfa 2 x a day and never had an issue with my bucks.

It is up to you on what feeding program you want to do.

I do have to say I don't raise wethers as pets, so I cannot say this method I use is good for them.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Ill try to find that grain 

Can the females eat the grain without worrying about anything?
Thanks


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, but they can indeed get stones, not from that alone but, it isn't as severe,as the boys, as they can eventually pee it out, unlike the boys. ACV will help if that is ever the case.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

And is that safe for does who are milk feeding there kids?

Thanks i bought it today


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes.


It looks like a good mineral source but, you will need ammonium chloride added to that as well.

Whether it be, Noble goat grower as I mentioned before or the powder for the boys.


----------



## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

I use MannaPro Goat Balancer instead of CalfManna, and MannaPro Goat Minerals as my loose mineral. Both contain ammonium chloride. The mineral is a bit expensive, but I feel the quality is worth the cost and my goaties love it.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/manna-proreg;-goat-balancer-supplement-10-lb

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/manna-proreg;-goat-mineraltrade;-supplement-8-lb


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Why would i need ammouniun chloride? The loose mineral is 2:1? 
So it should be ok for bucks and does? Without any additives? 
Thanks


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

hey so lets say i cut out the goat tex out off all my goats diets and include hay, pasture and include free choice loose mineral 2:1 Diary pride which is safe for bucks and pregant and does that are feeding kids is that true and safe? and also 1 or 2 cups daily Purina® Noble Goat® Grower 16%-Medicated Goat Feed, which has 
Urinary acidifiers including ammonium chloride - helps reduce the incidence of urinary calculi
and Medicated with Decoquinate for the prevention of coccidiosis

thanks and let me know if that is a good diet for all my goats!


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

The AC is a prevention. Goats do not always eat the daily minimum amount of minerals they need to maintain the AC level of acidity to prevent UC. 

To keep the animals at a recommended level of AC and cocci prevention, they must be fed according to the label on the feed.

The meat goat grower I feed to the bucks and kids requires that the animal eats 1 pound of the feed per 100 pounds of body weight a day to keep the level of cocci meds and Ac enough to create the acidic urine. I have a scale, so my feed is weighed out. For this particular feed, 1 pound is a little over a small coffee can of the feed, probably 1 and 1/4 cans per 100 pounds of body weight at a minimum. This is a pellet. Sweet feed, whole grains (except corn) or a coarse (pellets and grains) would weigh less and need more than a can 1/4.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

but is the diet i stated ok?

but i dont mean to argue or anything just a question but if i have 2:1 loose mineral free choice and feed hay why would i need Ammonium Chloride? 
it is 2:1 isnt it safe for bucks?


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

BOERKING said:


> but is the diet i stated ok?
> 
> but i dont mean to argue or anything just a question but if i have 2:1 loose mineral free choice and feed hay why would i need Ammonium Chloride?
> it is 2:1 isnt it safe for bucks?


You don't seem to understand. The WHOLE diet must be balanced. Not just the mineral. Not just the grain. Everything they eat put together should add up to a balanced calcium to phosphorous ratio. They don't eat enough mineral to balance the unbalanced grain.


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

So if your feeding an unbalanced diet to a buck, you need the ammonium chloride (whether sprinkled onto the grain or feeding a grain that includes it) to protect the buck from urinary calculi.

You don't need the ammonium chloride if your balancing the grain with alfalfa. If your not feeding alfalfa with the grain, I would defiantly make sure your buck is getting the proper amount of ammonium chloride. I don't like fooling with the ammonium chloride so I feed alfalfa pellets to balance the grain. My bucks look great and no urinary calculi or any other health problems.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

I didnt understand thats why i asked....
The noble goat grower has AC for UC prevention and Cocci
If i feed noble goat grower i wont need the other goat tex 
Because noble is a better feed but i need to buy it online
I stopped feeding the bucks the other goat tex when i did feed them it would be little
So what i am currently feeding them is hay and free choice loose mineral 2:1 
What is calcium to phoaphurus ratio for hay?


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

The calcium to phosphorous ratio of grass hay can vary quit a bit. I get my Bermuda hay tested and it is usually 1.3-1.5 to 1. Most grass hays are going to be closer to 1 to 1.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

So is hay and loose mineral a unbalanced diet? 

I dont feed goat tex anymore to the bucks but i an going to buy noble goat feed soon when i cross the border


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Ladysecret said it well and answered your question.

If you don't know how to do the 2:1 ratio or fear the bucks are not getting 2:1 ratio, then it is wise to supplement with the ammonium chloride powder or grain with it in there. But be sure to feed the proper amount of the grain which has the ammonium chloride in it, for it to do any good. 

Do you have a tractor supply nearby? They carry nobel goat grower.


----------



## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

no i do not but i am trying to find it on amazon or buy it online and ship it to my usa post office.
or ill phone around the feed stores in my area to find out to see if they can order it 

and ok thanks!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I also answered your PM's 

Check for other grain feeds, some may have AC in it as well. Ask your local feed store to check for you.


----------

