# Packgoats banned in Alaska!!



## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Reposted from a message from AK Pack Goats

Help! 

I am a goat packer in Alaska. I am looking for support from other goat packers and organizations. The Alaska Board of Game has just passed a regulation prohibiting pack goat use in the entire State for hunting. They say it's based on information from the State Veterinarian that the animals pose a risk of spreading disease to wild sheep and goats. I am a goat packer who just moved up here from Idaho, where I had pack goats. I have been frantically trying to talk to the Board of Game members and get other people in support of doing something. What can you do to help? I am hoping maybe a letter discussing the unlikelihood of pack goats giving diseases to wild animals addressed to the Alaska Board of Game, or possibly a phone call to the Board. Also, any scientific information refuting this risk would be helpful.

I appreciate any support you can give

Thank you


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## willy the kid (Feb 22, 2012)

That is no good and I hope thay find the help thay need.
sure wish I could help!


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## Bwana Ken (May 9, 2011)

This could set a dangerous precedence. It is tempting to say "it's just Alaska, and I live in the lower 48, so it doesn't affect me." That would be a mistake.....


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## cryptobrian (Apr 26, 2012)

I also received a PM from AK Pack Goats, as I assume others on the forum did as well. Not sure why it wasn't posted generally for all, but would hope to see response from AK Pack Goats here with more specific information or links to the regulation announcement. I do know there has been a history with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, going back at least to 2005 as NAPgA has some communications to this effect on the website. I can't find anything more recent, including in the Fish and Game news release, emergency regulations, etc. 

Brian


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree. To lose an entire state is a big deal!


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## AACmama (Jul 29, 2010)

This is not good at all. Once a precident is set in one place, it's all too easy for others to follow.

Taffy posted a Craigslist ad in which the sellers stated that a trail in Washington State is now banning goats. 

So...where do we send our letters?


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## Mt.goatguy (Dec 2, 2011)

Knowing exactly what is going on NOW is important to being able to respond correctly and have a positive effect on this serious challenge to packing with goats.

Is it really about disease, unfair hunting advantage, or possibly competition or bad feeling with someone, etc.?

I spent a little time trying to find something out on Google but did not meet with much success.

Here is a link to the general topic from over 4 years ago on our form.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15&p=295&hilit=John+Mionczynski#p295

Bottom line let's get our ducks in a roll and make a rational response to this problem, and to the right people, in the right way to help not hurt our position...
I am new to all this and only trying to get all the facts.
Any information would be appreciated.

Joe


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## StykbowMT225 (Feb 21, 2012)

I am going to start talking to MT biologists and FWP officials to see what we can do to prevent any further problems. There has to be a test/vaccine that can certify packers as well.

I'll let you know what I come up with.

Doug


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## StykbowMT225 (Feb 21, 2012)

From Fish Wildlife and Parks in Montana:


It is generally agreed by folks who study BHS pneumonia that domestic (or feral) goats as well as domestic sheep can serve as a reservoir for bacteria that can be pathogenic for BHS. I know there is a paper in Journal of Wildlife Diseases in which they looked at a group of feral goats living in BHS habitat in Hells Canyon, and they were able to find leukotoxin positive Mannheimia haemolytica in both goats and BHSâ€¦..as you know there was a big pneumonia outbreak there. It isnâ€™t possible from this study to say which way the transmission occurred (BHS to goats, or goats to BHS), but it does show that goats can carry some of the same organisms that domestic sheep can carry, and that can kill BHS. When goats are in BHS habitat it is important to manage them in a way to maintain separation. There is also the policy that BHS that are known to come into contact with domestics be removed from the herd. Most studies have been done with domestic sheep, but we know that goats can carry these same potential pathogens, so the same precautions really apply.







Jennifer M. Ramsey D.V.M., M.P.V.M.

Wildlife Veterinarian

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks

Office: (406) 994-5671

Mobile: (406) 581-3691


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

StykbowMT225 said:


> From Fish Wildlife and Parks in Montana:
> 
> It is generally agreed by folks who study BHS pneumonia that domestic (or feral) goats as well as domestic sheep can serve as a reservoir for bacteria that can be pathogenic for BHS. I know there is a paper in Journal of Wildlife Diseases in which they looked at a group of feral goats living in BHS habitat in Hells Canyon, and they were able to find leukotoxin positive Mannheimia haemolytica in both goats and BHSâ€¦..as you know there was a big pneumonia outbreak there. It isnâ€™t possible from this study to say which way the transmission occurred (BHS to goats, or goats to BHS), but it does show that goats can carry some of the same organisms that domestic sheep can carry, and that can kill BHS. When goats are in BHS habitat it is important to manage them in a way to maintain separation. There is also the policy that BHS that are known to come into contact with domestics be removed from the herd. Most studies have been done with domestic sheep, but we know that goats can carry these same potential pathogens, so the same precautions really apply.
> 
> ...


I need to chime in on this.

Regarding the Hells Canyon Die-off, I will quote from a Journal of Wildlife Disease paper, which is peer -reviewed. "Sharing of Pasturella spp. Between Free Ranging Bighorn Sheep and Feral Goats". On p. 898, it states that a feral goat was found with a Bighorn Ram and a Ewe. The ram and goat were clinically healthy, but the ewe showed signs of respiratory disease. This causes me to wonder..if goats are as dangerous as domestic sheep (studies have not faired well with domestic sheep and bighorn sheep), then WHY was the Bighorn Ram clinically healthy?

Same page - 20 bighorn sheep were found 30 km away that were either sick or dead. (more on this in a minute).

On p. 901 of the same document, it says,"...because both the biovariant 1 (Pasturella Haemolytica) and ToxA + organisms were limited TO THE THREE ANIMALS shot on 29 November 1995 and were NOT isolated from ANY of the other bighorn sheep in groups A and B, there is NO evidence that those organisms were associated with subsequent disease or deaths." This is factual information. I do believe that there has been fiction mixed with facts in order to condemn goats, by certain biologists with an agenda.

So here is what I read...you own a pistol. You live in Great Falls, MT. A guy dies of a shotgun blast in Billings, MT but I am blaming you because you own a gun. Make sense?

NAPgA agrees with strict management of packgoats. But banning them from the forest makes as much sense as banning guns in order to eliminate murders in a particular State.

There is only one study I know of where domestic goats are commingled with Bighorn Sheep in a controlled environment. It is a study by Dr. Wm Foreyt in 1994. Domestic Goats were pastured with Bighorn Sheep for a period of time, and at the end of the study BOTH GOATS AND BIGHORN SHEEP WERE HEALTHY.

All of the scientists that I have spoken with on this subject over the phone have told me that there is insufficient data to say that goats are bighorn sheep killers. There is no peer reviewed scientific evidence "out there".

Banning is not the answer. Banning will not keep the "rogue" goat packers out. NAPgA does suggest management and education for the goat packing community.

Yes, this is a very serious issue. Frankly, if I am traveling through Bighorn Sheep habitat with my goats, I would do it quickly, I would have a GPS collar on my goats, I would only pack one or two goats maximum and travel light, and I would highline my goats. And if I see any bighorn sheep, I would do my darndest to scare them away.

NAPgA could use the help on fighting these closures by helping us fund our legal fees. We need help in a big way, financially. We have hired the best attorney that we could find, but that comes at a price.

Charlie Jennings, Land Use Chairman
NAPgA
[email protected]


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## Mt.goatguy (Dec 2, 2011)

*Big Horn sheep distrubution lower 48 and Canada...*

In 30 + years of back packing here in NW Montana I have seen few Big Horn sheep out side of Glacier Park but many Mountain goats in various high locations.

Are there official concerns and studies about wild Mountain Goats too?

Here is a map showing BHS distrubution.

http://fieldguide.mt.gov/detail_AMALE04010.aspx

Joe


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

there is growing evidence that weather is more of a factor in big horn sheep die offs than exposure to sheep
the last two big horn die offs fallowed sever temperature swings.
the first the high temperature was 85 on Monday and on Thursday it was 11 that one froze the leaves on the trees there was no fall colors that year.
the second came just two months later when there was rain high wind, heavy snow and sub zero weather all with in a 36 hour time period.
with this herd the exposure to sheep and goats is very high. yet there health is excellent until the weather event came along.
That is why there is inconclusive data.


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## StykbowMT225 (Feb 21, 2012)

This also cam in from Justin Gude. I have questions in to MT FWP to see what kind of test/vaccinations/disease free status possibilities we can come up with.

Thanks,
Doug


"It looks as though there is a level of risk for wild sheep associated with domestic goats, to the point of a desire to maintain separation. If you are out with the goats and contact sheep, then weâ€™d like to know and probably would plan to remove the sheep (if we can determine what sheep had the contact)."



Justin Gude 
Wildlife Research & Technical Services Section Manager 
Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks 
1420 E. 6th Ave.


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## StykbowMT225 (Feb 21, 2012)

And again from my local Region 4 Biologist:

Hi Doug,



There is a wealth of information out there concerning disease transmission in bighorn sheep, and although most of it is focused on domestic sheep, domestic goats have been known to carry types of Pasteurella spp. (a cause of respiratory disease) and have been implicated in several pneumonia die-offs of bighorn sheep. They are also known to carry and transmit parasites. Our Montana Bighorn Sheep Conservation Strategy suggests that FWP has tried to establish a buffer of at least 9 miles between domestic goat/sheep and bighorn populations, which hasnâ€™t been completely successful. 



Most of these pathogens are transmitted by nose-to-nose contact. If you are planning on hunting the Breaks, which is basically the only sheep population in the state that hasnâ€™t experienced a disease-related die-off in recent years, I would personally rather see you leaving the goats at home. I donâ€™t know of any regulation against using pack goats and doubt that there is a â€œdisease-freeâ€ status you could obtain from them. However, if you do bring them, I strongly recommend having COMPLETE control over them the entire time (on the trail and at camp) and driving away any bighorn sheep that come near them. If contact occurs, let us know as we would have to remove that animal from the herd.



Also, pack goats are banned in NM in alpine habitats (e.g., Pecos Wilderness) and NMGF is also working to prohibit their use in lower elevation areas as well. 



Anyway, I hope this helps


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## StykbowMT225 (Feb 21, 2012)

Ok,

The "blue" she is referring to isn't on the copied and pasted portion below. If a moderator care edit the piece, it looks reasonably easy to distinguish between her responses and Charlie's. Some good information none the less, but I will still not settle for the "stay away" approach in the future. The reason I own pack goats is for going into the backcountry. Someday I will draw a sheep tag and I plan on using them. This isn't acceptable to me. I hope we can work together and end the bans, and prevent new ones from occuring.

Thanks
Doug

Hi Doug â€" Iâ€™ve tried to respond to some of the writing below (in blue) so let me know if any of my responses need further clarification. As far as testing clean goes, there isnâ€™t anything wrong with testing animals to get some idea of what bacteria theyâ€™re carrying, but its not foolproof. As I mention below, if you detect a particular bacteria, you know without doubt that it is present in the sample. If you do not find a bacteria, that doesnâ€™t guarantee that the animal is not carrying it. You could just not get a good sample with your swab, the bacteria could die during storage and shipping to the lab, there is potential for human error in the lab, and some bacteria are just hard to grow in a lab. When we collect samples from bhs herds during capture, we sample a lot of animals, and always assume weâ€™re not finding every bacteria in every animal. By sampling a large number of animals, we can have a bit more certainty that if a bacteria is present in the herd, weâ€™ll pick it up at least in some of the samples, but not all.

Scientists are working right now on a vaccine for domestic sheep that they hope will show some promise in protecting bhs from certain pneumonias, but it will be a while before we know whether that is going to work out. I honestly donâ€™t know whether it will also be tested in goats. There are also scientists still working on a vaccine for bhs directly, but its probably years from being a real option. Vaccines that have been used for bhs in the past havenâ€™t really been very effective.

Because some domestic sheep can carry bacteria that may be harmful to bhs as a normal part of the flora of their upper respiratory tract, they donâ€™t necessarily get sick. (There are some strains of these bacteria that can make domestic livestock sick, which is why these vaccines exist). There are vaccines for some pasteurella/mannheimia organisms, but in many cases they arenâ€™t necessarily going to keep a domestic sheep from carrying the specific biotype of that bacteria that can make bhs sick. Also, if the domestic sheep is already a carrier, the vaccination isnâ€™t going to get rid of the bacteria they are carrying. Iâ€™m not super familiar with the domestic sheep pneumonia vaccines, but some vaccines donâ€™t necessarily prevent the from carrying a bacteria, but does prevent them from developing the disease caused by that bacteria (sometimes youâ€™ll see wording on the label that says something like â€œfor the prevention of pneumonia due to x bacteriaâ€ not necessarily â€œto prevent infection with x bacteriaâ€.

Unfortunately there really hasnâ€™t been a lot of work done with goats and bhs. We do know that they can at least carry some of these bacteria that are capable of making bhs sick, so the safest option for the bhs is to maintain separation.

Jennifer M. Ramsey D.V.M., M.P.V.M.

Wildlife Veterinarian

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks

Office: (406) 994-5671

Mobile: (406) 581-3691

From: Doug Krings [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 10:09 AM
To: Ramsey, Jennifer
Subject: Pack goats in MT/AK

Jennifer,

I recieved this as a response on a forum discussing the possible solutions to pack goats and BHS/DS/SS/DBS habitat. Please let me know if it has any merit.

"I need to chime in on this.

Regarding the Hells Canyon Die-off, I will quote from a Journal of Wildlife Disease paper, which is peer -reviewed. "Sharing of Pasturella spp. Between Free Ranging Bighorn Sheep and Feral Goats". On p. 898, it states that a feral goat was found with a Bighorn Ram and a Ewe. The ram and goat were clinically healthy, but the ewe showed signs of respiratory disease. This causes me to wonder..if goats are as dangerous as domestic sheep (studies have not faired well with domestic sheep and bighorn sheep), then WHY was the Bighorn Ram clinically healthy?

Itâ€™s hard to say for sure Doug, but there are a few different possibilities. Just as when different humans are exposed to a sick individual and some get sick and some donâ€™t, different animals may have different levels of resistance, which may affect their ability to fend off pathogens. This could be affected by a lot of things like stress, nutrition, age, etc. They killed all three animals, and isolated P. haemolytica (now called M. haemolytica) from the goat and the ewe but not the ram. Another thing to keep in mind with bacterial culture is that if you donâ€™t get it to grow, that doesnâ€™t guarantee itâ€™s not there. There are many factors that can cause failure of a lab to isolate a bacteriaâ€¦.from sampling technique, to sample storage, to human error at the lab and so on. If you isolate a bacteria from a sample, then you know without doubt that it was present in the sample. If you fail to isolate the bacteria, either it wasnâ€™t present, or for some reason it was there and you were unable to isolate it. So, the ram could have in fact not been infected with P haemolytica and perhaps it hadnâ€™t been long enough for him to actually have symptoms, or there could have been a failure to detect it. Why one sheep is infected and another in a group is not is something that is really hard to know. Itâ€™s stated in this paper that although they can document sharing of bacteria between bhs and the goats, it is impossible to prove the direction of the transmission. To do that they would have had to know what bacteria these animals were carrying prior to the their comingling.

Same page - 20 bighorn sheep were found 30 km away that were either sick or dead. (more on this in a minute).

On p. 901 of the same document, it says,"...because both the biovariant 1 (Pasturella Haemolytica) and ToxA + organisms were limited TO THE THREE ANIMALS shot on 29 November 1995 and were NOT isolated from ANY of the other bighorn sheep in groups A and B, there is NO evidence that those organisms were associated with subsequent disease or deaths." This is factual information. I do believe that there has been fiction mixed with facts in order to condemn goats, by certain biologists with an agenda.

I think you have to be careful not to take more from this Hells Canyon paper than what is really there. I think really the aim of the paper was to make the point that goats are capable of carrying these same bacteria that may cause disease in BHS. I think they were pretty careful to not say that these sheep got the bacteria from the goatsâ€¦.they donâ€™t have what they need to do that. So, the fact that the biovariant 1 and ToxA + organisms were only isolated from the 3 animals they shot initially is an interesting point, but doesnâ€™t falsify the statement that goats are capable of carrying these organisms. They didnâ€™t go on to say that the goats were the source of pathogens that caused pneumonia in all these sheep.

So here is what I read...you own a pistol. You live in Great Falls, MT. A guy dies of a shotgun blast in Billings, MT but I am blaming you because you own a gun. Make sense?

NAPgA agrees with strict management of packgoats. But banning them from the forest makes as much sense as banning guns in order to eliminate murders in a particular State.

There is only one study I know of where domestic goats are commingled with Bighorn Sheep in a controlled environment. It is a study by Dr. Wm Foreyt in 1994. Domestic Goats were pastured with Bighorn Sheep for a period of time, and at the end of the study BOTH GOATS AND BIGHORN SHEEP WERE HEALTHY.

This is somewhat trueâ€¦Dr. Foreyt did do this study, and the bhs survived their exposure to the domestic goats. However, in the management recommendations section of his paper, he says that the study with domestic goats didnâ€™t result in disease in bhs, but he didnâ€™t go so far as to say that bhs contact with domestic goats does not result in respiratory disease. In fact, he suggests the same type of study â€œneeds to be conducted using domestic goats that are carrying P. haemolytica biotype A to determine the effects of those organisms on the health of bhsâ€. This type of P haemolytica, which is thought to be the worst one for bhs, was not detected in any goats at the end of the studyâ€¦.so, there is the possibility that these goats simply werenâ€™t carriers of this potential pathogen, so the bhs didnâ€™t get sick. If they did the study with goats known to be carrying this bacteria, there is a possibility that there would have been a different outcome. We know that domestic sheep and goats (from the Hellâ€™s Canyon paper) can carry some of these bacteria without getting sick.

All of the scientists that I have spoken with on this subject over the phone have told me that there is insufficient data to say that goats are bighorn sheep killers. There is no peer reviewed scientific evidence "out there".

Banning is not the answer. Banning will not keep the "rogue" goat packers out. NAPgA does suggest management and education for the goat packing community.

Yes, this is a very serious issue. Frankly, if I am traveling through Bighorn Sheep habitat with my goats, I would do it quickly, I would have a GPS collar on my goats, I would only pack one or two goats maximum and travel light, and I would highline my goats. And if I see any bighorn sheep, I would do my darndest to scare them away.

NAPgA could use the help on fighting these closures by helping us fund our legal fees. We need help in a big way, financially. We have hired the best attorney that we could find, but that comes at a price.

Charlie Jennings, Land Use Chairman
NAPgA"


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## feederseaters (Nov 8, 2009)

This is all very disturbing. 

Have we determined what the best action plan is yet? If we do a letter writing effort or fund raising (for the atty), I would like to do my part. I just want to know what we decide collectively is the most appropriate way to handle this.


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## Taffy (Dec 9, 2011)

I emailed the folks who have the pack goat for sale on Craigslist and asked them what trail was closed to goats. Here is their reply:

"Pacific Crest Trail and Heather Lake trail up by Leavenworth"


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

Many times I have read from various Game and Fish documents that have stated, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence" that domestic sheep and goats transmit diseases to bighorn sheep.

They quote the Hells Canyon die offs, they refer to die offs in Arizona, etc.

So if I seem like I am over-reacting...it is because there have been biologists that have taken it upon themselves to stretch the truth.

The problems in Arizona came from weed eating brush goats that were poorly managed. Not well cared for Packgoats.

Goats have been blamed for catastrophic die offs in the Hells Canyon area...not what the facts say. So yeah, I am somewhat peeved because that is not based on factual information.

I have also heard that goats can carry pink-eye...well, horses and cattle and humans do also. If my goats have pink-eye, I am certainly not going to take them into Bighorn Sheep areas.

I agree with spacial separation between goats and Bighorn Sheep...through effective management and control, not banning them.

Finally, if my opinions are going to be copied and shared with Various biologists and veterinarians, would you please be courteous enough to ask my permission first? I feel that it is just common courtesy to do that.


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

I spoke to Dr Foryth on 9/9/11. He was the pathologists at WADDL at that time. My question to him was regarding what was the most effective test for a packgoat to see if they carried the mannheimia or pasteruella haemolytica. He suggested a "trans-tracheal wash". My vet is scheduled to see my goats Friday. She feels the goats may need to be sedated to do this test. I will follow through with this test if it is safe and affordable. 
IdahoNancy


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

*"They didnâ€™t go on to say that the goats were the source of pathogens that caused pneumonia in all these sheep."*

All that I will say personally, and not as a representative for NAPgA, is that statement sounds like back-peddling to me. I have read many, many documents where G & F employees, Bighorn Sheep Technical Committees, Biologists that do not like domestic goats and want them banned, etc., etc., blame domestic goats for the Hells Canyon die-offs.

This is what I want the goatpacking community to understand, is that the finer details of the scientific peer-reviewed documents, there are three of them in particular, that carefully examine the die-offs in the mid-90's in Hells Canyon, and reveal the truth. Once I started digging, I realized that there was more to the story than the opinions I was reading.

I agree that if we can nasal swab our goats and find out if whether or not they are carrying biovariant type A, than that is a critical thing to document in a health certificate and can be implemented in our Best Management Practices (BMP) plan. But that is going to take some time.

Dr. Knowles of the USDA at Washington State University informed us that ruminents can be swabbed and then the culture can be tested for lukotoxins. I sent a swab, performed by my local veterinarian, in to the WADDL lab last summer and it came back negative. But we still have to refine the process before the USFS will accept it.

For now, it is my own personal opinion, as mentioned earlier, that we exercise the most extreme caution (have COMPLETE control) and use LNT ethics when using our packgoats. I would hope that the whole packgoat community become very knowledgable about these diseases, work closely with your local Forest Service Rangers and Biologists and develop a healthy relationship with them, do volunteer trail work for the National Forests as many of us have, so that we can be regarded as an asset to the National Forests and not a liability.

Forgive me if I seem a little "testy" on this issue. As the Land Use Committee Chair for NAPgA, I have taken time off work (and when I don't work, I don't get paid) and driven 600 miles each way to Cody, Wyoming, once in a blinding snow-storm, to meet with the Forest Service on behalf of the goat-packing community. i have spent numerous hours combing over papers, trying to comprehend this science. I have an engineering background, so this is a new ball game for me.

I am frustrated that nobody is willing to allow us to enforce strict management practices and still allow access to all districts of the Shoshone National Forest. It has been closed (temporarily) until December 2013. The Forest Plan is current being revised and we are doing all that we can to help them understand that management of our packgoats is the correct way of thinking, not banning them.. _Banning seems so "over the top" to me. So fanatical._ That is just my opinion. I really believe that if I am allowed to take only two goats in where I want, that I can keep them from commingling with Bighorn Sheep. Doesn't seem that complicated to me. Yes, I worry about the domestic sheep herds and the thousands of weed-eating brush goats....but that ain't us. And I don't want to be painted with the same brush as those guys.


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## Mt.goatguy (Dec 2, 2011)

> I really believe that if I am allowed to take only two goats in where I want, that I can keep them from commingling with Bighorn Sheep. Doesn't seem that complicated to me. Yes, I worry about the domestic sheep herds and the thousands of weed-eating brush goats....but that ain't us. And I don't want to be painted with the same brush as those guys.


This is also my worry, it is the easy thing to just ban all goats in the high country. It is so not fair since these thousands of much less care for brush goats can get lose and go wild causing the problem.

Just 2 days ago I saw a large herd of goats that truly bothered me...their hooves were all not trimmed and they were fat and sickly looking some with botched horn jobs etc. 
The couple that owned them were good well meaning people but so ignorant about their animals.

http://www.ktvb.com/home/600-goats-take ... 11908.html

Thank you vigilguy for all that you have done.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A few laymen things Id like to point out. As a 20+ dairy goat breeder I have seen a huge change over the years. When we first started, things like CAE (Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis) and CL (Caseous Lymphadenitis) were just starting to be understood. Most infected herds had no idea what either of these two diseases were. WSU did a great deal of research and even maintained their own herd of Saanens if my memory serves me correctly. Now, today, many breeders now have cleaned up their herds and maintain a CAE/CL clean practice. I mention this to illustrate the willingness of most owners to practice good husbandry and the lack of true factual knowledge concerning goats and relative diseases.

Take for instance, something as seemingly simple as deworming. Try looking for factual evidences of a set practice and you will only opinions. Vets and researchers and goat owners will be split right down the middle. And for a real good time, throw natural dewormers into the mix. If something as seemingly simple as deworming isnt even remotely understood, how can we be expected to take a few studies that are composed of mights and maybes.

As for pneumonia in goats, there are two different kinds. As I am sure there are in sheep, big horn sheep and mountain goats. 

1 is elemental. It was mentioned above about the server weather changed may have caused it. This is 100% true and factual. After 20 years of raising goats I can testify to this. This kind of pneumonia hits a goat hard and fast and can kill within a day. This kind is non contagious, at least in my experience and can hit a goat with as little as 30 degree temp difference. Things such as rain (moisture) and wind can and will contribute greatly. Thus why a wind tight shelter is so important. 

2. is viral and the main focus of the above discussion and banning. On this pneumonia I cant speak intelligently on as in 20 years of raising goats, I have never had one pass a case onto another. Perhaps good husbandry is enough of a deterrent or we have never had a viral infection. 

In closing Id just like to say, goat owners in general are passionate about their goats and will fight / defend them with everything they have. In the same respect, if given a guideline to follow in order to keep wild sheep and goats safe, we would follow it without a seconds thought. Instead of banning us for doing what we love, give us a chance to help preserve the environment we enjoy.


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