# Lutalyse to induce heat in a Lamancha goat



## Jana

I purchased 3 Lamancha goats in hope of milking them. I learned in Feb. that they only cycle between Sept. and Jan. We were hoping to breed them now for some Sept. kids. Has any of you had experience with using Lutalyse to induce heat in a dairy doe? 

Thanks - JG


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## toth boer goats

Wish I could answer that ...but I am unsure of the lamancha's ....I only know the boers... :thumb: .but maybe someone else will come along to answer that for you....


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## StaceyRosado

you could try but the chances are minimal from what I know. But ive been known to be wrong.


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## Amos

A large dairy in my state 'plays' with the lights to get their animals to cycle into June even.. Not sure how they do it, and I like to stick with an animal's natural cycles, but it might be worth researching.


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## Jana

Thanks for the input you guys. I don't think I have the set up to fittle with the lights as the barn does receive some natural light, but I'll google it and see what the protocol is on that. I'm bummed that it doesn't sound positive for the Lutalyse. I will only be on this land for another year. After that we might have to go back to our home we own in the suburbs. We are trying to drink up as much of the country living as we can and so I'm so frustrated with myself for missing their heat this winter. I suppose if I breed them in Sept. I will have a couple months to milk before we leave. 

Thanks you guys - Jana


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## Squires

onder: OK, here's the scoop. Lutalyse is used to abort an accidental breeding OR to help a goat that is due to give birth but is not moving along (2ml injection of lutalyse for a standard doe). When used to abort, it has to be used about 10 -14 days after breeding, or it won't work and the pregnancy will continue. You need a prescription from your vet for lutalyse -- it is a very powerful progesterone and you should wear gloves. Pregnant women should not handle it, and it can cause heavy bleeding and problems in women of child-bearing age -- Wear gloves always, and if possible let a guy give the shot. Or one of us old broads who are no longer fertile. Seriously. Very important to remember.

:whatgoat: THE MYTH: Some people claim they gave the lutalyse shot to abort an unwanted breeding and put the doe in with a new buck to breed the same day and the doe got pregnant. I mentioned this to my caprine extension agent and to an animal-husbandry professor -- and they said they laugh every time they hear of people using this to induce ovulation! It is NOT meant for that. IF it happens, it means that they were lucky that there was an egg in there that was about ready. It does not mean that the lutalyse CAUSED the ovulation. More of a COINCIDENCE Anyway, that is what two people who breed and study lots and lots of goats privately and professionally in connection with major agricultural colleges told me.

So, skip the lutalyse.

However, there IS a way to induce ovulation and heats in does: use a CIDR. It may be labeled for sheep or goats -- it is used for both. It is like a tampon and contains a form of progesterone (actually, these are supposed to be the real thing and one could say they are "all natural" although you are using them to tweak mother nature . . .). You will need the CIDR itself, and a special CIDR applicator. You leave them in the goat for 10-21 days. The CIDR mimics a pregnancy or the time between heats or periods.

The day you remove the CIDR, you also give the goat an injection of PG 600 (also natural hormones - -this mixture will help cause ovulation and is sold for that purpose for maiden pigs). I believe the dose is 1 1/2 cc for a doe. PG 600 comes as a fluid and a powder, and you have to use a needle and syringe to mix the two before use. You can get it in a big dose good for lots of does or a few pigs, or you can get it in smaller doses good for a single pig or up to three does. Make sure that you wear gloves when handling these things -- especially if you are female of child-bearing age. Hormones are, by nature, very powerful things and best not to be sloppy with them.

NOW, here is the important part. REMOVE ALL BUCKS from the does when you start this procedure. Move them downwind or to another farm. Buck scent pushes a doe to come into heat -- but to induce the strongest, best possible heat with ovulation, you want to remove any hint of buck scent. You want the CIDR to work fully with no other influence on the doe. When you remove the CIDR and inject the PG 600, you can then bring a buck near for "buck effect" - -his scent will add to the intensity of the heat. Flirting with him over a buck-proof fence helps, too, I am told. I built a "Fort Knox" fence with two layers of cattle panel and a layer of wooden pallets between to make SURE they didn't breed through the fence. That way you can use any nice stinky buck to tease the does into ovulating before you AI or take them to the desired sire-buck. Within 36 hours of removal of the CIDR etc. the doe should come into INTENSE heat! It is your job to watch her carefully and note when she goes into standing heat. Ideally she will go WILd -- tail flagging, vocalizing, and making a ruckus. I knew that the teasing was successful because my dog started barking at all the noise the does were making! I was also glad that I had built the buck a "Fort Knox" pen! 
hlala: :lovey:

Note the time that the does go wild -- because they will ovulate about 36 hours from that. It helps you time your AI, or introduction to your desired sire-buck. OR, I supposed you could just let her run loose with him. Ask your vet to be sure. Of course, if your vet is not a goat fertility vet, she/he many not be familiar with these things. Actually, you could talk with the experts at Pipestone Vet or at Super Semen Works, which sell the supplies.

CIDRs and PG 600 are non-prescription items and you can get them through <Jefferslivestock.com> , <Pipestonevet.com>, or <Supersemenworks.com>

One more quick tip: If your doe is selenium deficient, she is more likely to have quiet or silent heats, and less fertile heats. BoSE is a prescription medication you need to get from your vet. Ask about it -- some areas of the USA are selenium deficient. Also, the vitamin E is important -- make sure that you have a good vitamin/mineral mix or lots of green stuff (alfalfa pellets? grazing?) to get your doe ready for breeding.

Good luck! :stars:

Chris


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## Robynlynn

Squires CIDR and PG600 method may work for you. I raise Lamancha'a and was thinking of trying this myself on some dry yearlings...until they began bagging up! Glad I did not interupt the preganancies with drugs! Make sure they are dry befor you start! 
Also, in conferring with another lamancha lady, she does see them occassionally go into heat in the spring summer~not regularly but she tells me she has seen it! thats good to know too! 
let us know how it works! I had a terrible time with other goats pulling out the CIDR's of the girls "with" the CIDR's when I tried this..some people trim the string but I would be worried I could not get them out! :wink:


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## Jana

Oh thanks a ton for the information!!! I will start looking into this ASAP. I'll let ya know how this all turns out. 

Jana


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## Squires

Thirty days after you think a doe may be bred, you can take a blood sample and send it to <biotracking.com> and have a pregnancy test done. Buying the materials to take blood (needles and vacume tubes) and the test itself cost a lot less than a vet visit. Watching the you-tube videos on how to take blood samples from a goat are free. The one with the eight year old taking a blood sample from a goat makes it look easy! The videos of the adult trying it look not so quick, but not so difficult, either.

The trick with the CIDRs is to just take the little tiny ball or tab at the end off - -give them less of something to grip and pull. Some people paint the "string" with bright nail polish so that they can better see if the CIDR is still there or missing. If you find them on the ground, you can rinse them off and reinsert them.

If you own a buck, it is easy enough to walk him down the barn aisle to tease the ladies and take them for a "date" if they are in heat. What is rough is when someone does not own a buck. For this reason, I finally broke down and got the cutest little mini-Nubian buck. He is also my "cleaner-upper" buck -- so if I just want to get them bred, he's right there. A mini-buck makes a great teaser! 

Chris


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## Squires

OH! I just remembered! Some bucks are also seasonal, so may not be as cooperative (although I think they find it hard to ignore a doe in wild, passionate heat!). Some people do the light-thing with the bucks, as well as the does. :idea: 

Goats and other small ruminants usually come into a breeding season "rut" as the day-length shortens. You can mimic this by leaving lights on at night for a while (I don't know how long -- maybe 2-4 weeks?) so that the total period of light is the daylight plus the night-time light. THEN you stop the night-lights. This is supposed to make the goat feel like the days have shortened. Ideally, I think people do this in February or March. So long as you do it before Summer Solistice, I think it might work. Let us know if you give it a try. :shades: 

We had goats going in and out of heat later this winter/spring than normal, because we kept having stormy, overcast days, day after day, with a few sunny days between. I guess some of them thought that fall was here, because they were back in heat! Of course, I have Nubians and Nigerians, which are more likely to be aseasonal anyway (but not always). I was told that breeding season for Nubians was over -- but apparently the doe didn't know that. :stars:


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## Robynlynn

I am printing this whole thread out and sticking it in my goat book! Good info! Thanks Squires!


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## Jana

Great idea! I'm doing the same!

JG


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