# Help...Please!!!



## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Hi Y'all...

I need some help for what I think is a sick baby goat...

Yesterday, we went to look at some baby goats...The male is 3 weeks old...The female is 2 weeks old...They are Nigerian/Pygmy cross...

I wasn't going to take either one, but the little boy had an ulcer on his eye and the little girl had both eyes shut and possibly infected...I decided I (who has NO experience with baby goats, but has worked with animals for many years) would be a better option for these kids than the current owner, who didn't seem to care much...

The boy (3 weeks) is nursing just fine (bout 5 ounces a feeding) and he likes to nibble young weeds, but isn't interested in the grain pellets...I have some Maxitrol drops I'm putting in his eyes and I think he'll be fine...

The little girl (2 weeks) worries me though...Upon further inspection, she has poop caked all around her butt...I did my best to get it clean, but it's really caked on (I did get the actual anus clean though)...She's only eating an ounce or two per feeding and she shows no interest in weeds or grain pellets...She does lick the wet dirt, but shows no interest in water...She also scratches constantly...

I'm a true novice, and I don't have a vet out here that works with goats...I'm sure I'll find one, but wasn't expecting to need one until Tuesday and that was only for the eyes if the drops don't work...I don't know what to do, or if I should even be worried...

Please help, and try not to reprimand me for getting in over my head, I know these kids would not receive better care where they were...The owner wasn't even aware of the girl's eye problems and he's not a 'bring them to the vet' kinda guy...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

With only being 2 weeks old, I would suspect ecoli. Spectroguard or neomycin would help with that. Get a temp on her.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

She's 102.9 and she doesn't have diarrhea, but her poop is more like a turd than pellets...


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Is it full like dog poop or is it pellets all mushed together?
When they are little they tend to look like that nerds rope candy- little pellets all stuck together. 

I would try a little nutridrench and probios if you have a place to get some. I would do it for both even though the male seems ok. I'd also get them on something for coccidia at 6 weeks or so if they make it.

How awful the place you got them from sounds- were the rest of the animals ok?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

fresh water, hay, and minerals available in addition to their milk feedings. (which Im sure you are doing- just want to throw it out there)
Are you doing a milk replacer?
Were they bottle fed from the place? did they get colostrum?


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

They were fed by their mothers until yesterday...The poop sounds normal, but she's not eating...They are on milk replacer now and I just fed them after six hours and the boy drank three ounces, but she didn't drink any...She's been active and isn't bleating more than occasionally...She's scratching a lot and she's a bit skinny, but she seems OK for now...I'm worried because I know how quickly things could turn for the worst...


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Make sure your kids don't have lice. The constant scratching can indicate that, and lice can make kids anemic. What brand of replacer are you using? Any soy listed in the ingredients?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I got a little doeling a few months ago- the previous owner was letting her dam feed during the day and then bottle feeding dams milk at night... I got her home and she would not take the milk replacer I had bought. She refused to eat for days. 
I looked a little online and found this this recipe and she took it every time and is healthy now and weaned  -
2/3 gallon whole milk- (raw if possible but store bought works)
1 can evaporated full fat milk- 
1 cup butter milk in the gallon jug 

obviously if you can find raw goat milk that would be best. 

Some kids are just finicky and won't take replacer if they have had the good stuff like in my case. Plus milk replacer has some nasty stuff in it- I know a lot of goat people who refuse to give it to kids.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I'd check for bugs, too. Mites or lice. 

At 2 weeks old, she may just be too young to be interested in solid food.

I would try to get them real milk, either goat, raw cow or store bought.

I'd start them both on cocci prevention now. I use Baycox.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks for all of your help folks!!!

She's still not eating, but she has tons of energy and loves to play...She had about three or four ounces of replacement formula yesterday and she drank some water out of her bowl...Today I tried her on the goat's milk recipe listed above...She didn't want it, but the little boy ate it greedily (he eats grass too, but no sweet grain or alfalfa yet)...

Not sure what to do about the girl though...

Also...Does anyone have a mite/lice treatment that's safe for nursing babies???

Thanks again!!!


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## Haviris (Oct 7, 2007)

You can bath her in dawn dish soap, let it sit for a few minutes before rinsing, and use a lice or flea comb after you get her out (I like to use it while they are still soapy to, to be sure it is getting everywhere). If it's lice you should see them in the comb. Could take a few baths (once a day) to get them all, but it will do the trick.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Thats so weird she didn't take it. She seemed the exact same food wise as my little dueling. Super active and happy just wouldn't eat. 

You may have to tube her if she keeps this up if you wish to save her. If you can get a goat vet now that the holiday weekend is over they would be best to show you but worse case scenario there are some pretty decent youtube instructional.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are you feeding the milk replacer at 100 degrees F? 

Goat kids that are raised on the dams can be difficult to transition to bottles. Try a different nipple. Be sure to turn off overhead lights. Some kids like to have a towel over their heads/eyes because it replicates the feel of searching under the udder for a teat. The best position for reluctant kids is to kneel on the floor and put the kid's butt between your legs, so when they back away from you they can't get anywhere, then you have 2 hands to deal with the mouth/head/bottle. Throw a dish towel over her eyes and then hold her chin up with one hand and place the nipple in her mouth with the other.

It's imperative to hold the bottle nearly completely vertical for goats kids - their heads should be in that awkward position thrown back as if they are under the dam. Don't feed it horizontally like other animals or humans. That head position opens a flap in their esophagus. 

They should have good quality soft green fragrant hay available at all times. Also, goat grain pellets are good to offer for them to begin mouthing at that age. A bucket of water and loose minerals should also be provided. 

They will need to have coccidia prevention/treatment and deworming as well. You can use the mail-in service MidAmerica Agricultural Research to send in fecal samples, but in my opinion based on what you have described, I would go ahead and treat them regardless. 

Does the doe stand with her tail down or back hunched?

Keep up the hard work - you have a steep learning curve but will get there!

Things to start thinking about: wethering (neutering) the buckling and securing enough good quality hay to feed them through winter.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Also - be sure not to overfeed the buckling bottles. They should still be getting a minimum of 3 bottles per day, 4-5 smaller bottles is better if your schedule allows.

Weigh them both and let us know how much they weigh so we can give you an estimate of how much to feed. Overfeeding is pretty dangerous for bottle kids!

I would guess they are somewhere around 5-6lbs each? So they would be getting somewhere between 12-20 ounces per DAY, split into as many feedings as your schedule allows.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

*Update...*

Hi Y'all...

Just wanted to let you know how it's going...

Yesterday, the doe FINALLY ate a normal portion...She weighs about 5 lbs 8oz and took just over twenty ounces of milk (thanks for the recipe Goatmama123)...She pretends to nibble grass, but doesn't actually eat it yet...Both eyes are open and clear...She's still scratching, but I don't see any lice and her...I'll try bathing her and combing her to see if I'm missing anything, but the buckling isn't scratching, so I'm not sure about the lice...BTW...*If it is lice will we need to treat ourselves for lice too???*

The buckling is doing very well...He weighs in at 5 lbs, eats at least 20 ounces a day, and grazes too...Yesterday, he started eating sweet grains (just a few pellets, but it's a start)...The ulcer on his eye doesn't look a whole lot better, but I'll keep up with the Maxitrol drops and take him to a vet in a few days if nothing improves...

I'll go to the feed and grain and try to get the coccidia treatment...The former owner said that the mothers were on wormer so they babies got wormed that way...Is that enough, or should I do a standard round of dewormer???

Anyway...That's where it stands today...Thanks for your continued help...It's making a difference!!!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

No, the lice is species specific, they will not live on a human. But you would be able to see them readily with the naked eye when parting her fur.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Kids do not get wormed through their mother's milk.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

OK...Suggestions for worming and Coccidia...

I found a Sulfadimethoxine powder, but it doesn't list goats on the label...No idea what to use for worming...

I'm thinking it's safe to name them now though....So, things are getting better...


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

So glad she finally ate!

Coccidia prevention I go with Baycox- you have to order it. There are some other options you can order as well but Baycox doesn't require as many doses. Just don't use Corrid. 

You can typically use most "cattle" products on goats the dosages are just different- obviously a goat isn't the size of a cow. And pay extra attention to the concentrations. Ivermectin for sheep for instance takes an insane amount for dosage... Where as cattle Ivermectin takes less.

You are going to want to run a fecal before deciding on what to worm with. Different wormers kill different things... you don't want to dose for something they don't have.
If I HAD to worm without a fecal I would choose Ivermectin plus. However, fecals are important when worming. They will also tell you if you already had a cocci problem or just want to prevent


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice given.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Have they had CDT, BoSe?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Since you are bottle feeding them, the sulfa powder will be just fine and easy to get in them for the 5 day dosage. I wouldn't order Baycox (Toltrazuril) since it is pricey and you only have 2 kids. 

Here are the instructions from the Fiasco Farms website for the sulfa powder:


Drug Name:

Sulfadimenthoxine

Brand Names:

Albon Concentrated Solution 12.5%
Albon Soluble Powder 107 gm pkg
Di-Methoox Concentrated Solution 12.5%
Di-Methoox Soluble Powder 107 gm pkg
For treatment of:
For coccidia, scours, pneumonia and misc. bacterial infections.
Please click her for more info on Coccidiosis.
Goat dose:
Concentrated Solution 12.5% - Straight from the bottle; do not mix with water. Administer/Drench directly into mouth (do not dilute)
Soluble Powder mixed as follows: dissolve one package (107 grams) in three cups of water. Keep refrigerated. Administer/Drench directly into mouth
Give Orally - Administer straight (no need to mix with any other liquids) into the mouth using a syringe (remove the needle). Do not just add it to the kid's water because you will not know if he receives the correct dose. Do not add it to his milk because the milk effects the potency of the drug.

Five day treatment- you must treat the full five days.
Day one: 1 ml per 5 pounds- given orally.
Days 2-5: 1 ml per 10 pounds- given orally
Coccidia prevention treatment:
Treat kids at three and six weeks of age.
Try to make sure that the kids don't poop, pee or walk in their food and water (virtually impossible).
Notes:
Albon is a broad spectrum antibacterial. It is also used to treat shipping fever, bacterial pneumonia, footrot & diphtheria.
This works the best for us in the treatment and prevention of Coccidiosis.
5 packets soluble powder (107 gm) are equivalent to one gallon of Concentrated Drinking Water 12.5% solution


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Ivomec Plus or Valbazen dewormers should both be available in the cattle section of your feed store. You will need 1mL syringes since they are little and also a needle for the Ivomec to draw it out (But you give it ORALLY in goats, the needle is just to get it out of the bottle).

Valbazen is 1mL per 10lbs ORALLY, repeat in 10-14 days

the dosage for Ivomec Plus is all over the map depending on area and person, I use 1mL per 30 pounds ORALLY and repeat in 10-14 days

Either of those should work fine for the little buds. Show us some photos and tell us the names when you decide! Be sure to get some good quality hay in front of them rather than just grass - they need to learn to eat both!


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

OK...Help me out here because I've been researching for two hours and my brain is swimming...

If Coccidia is 'species specific' shouldn't I be using something specifically for goats...I read chickens cannot infect goats with Coccidia because they carry a different strain of the illness...Baycox is for chickens and Sulfadimethoxine powder is for cattle...Isn't there anything specifically for goats???

Also...

I read about a natural treatment from Molly's Herbs...It seems to be a wormer, but Fiasco Farms says it can prevent Coccidia outbreaks...

Finally...

They say that worming is NOT Coccidia prevention treatment, so I'm VERY confused!!!

I just want the safest, most effective treatment for Coccidia and worms...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, so different types of coccidia for different species - YES
But all coccidias are similar and can be killed with the same drugs. They are susceptible to "sulfa" type drugs as well as a couple others. There is no goat-specific coccidia treatment that exists. There are very few goat-specific drugs in general.

Internal (stomach & intestinal) parasites AKA WORMS are also a threat to goats and are treated with DIFFERENT medications than coccidia, generally referred to as "Dewormers". 

So correct, dewormers do not treat coccidia, and coccidiastats do not treat worms. 

Since your kids have already scoured at some point, herbals are not going to work. Herbals can be fantastic for maintenance, but you need to start them when the goats are healthy. 

I would use your sulfa packet to treat coccidia, and purchase a dewormer to take care of internal parasites. Then 2 weeks later you can have a fecal analysis done through the above mentioned mail-in service. If the parasite egg levels are LOW in the fecal results, you could consider beginning herbal prevention then if you care to.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Thanks SaltyLove...That makes it a bit clearer...

I'm not sure what CDT or BoSe are Goatmama123...But I'm guessing NO...

Any thoughts on the herbals and Coccidia???


No names yet...But feel free to make suggestions!!!

The black one is the doe...


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

CDT- Vaccine for Clostridial diseases (they can be fatal and very sudden) Its also for Tetanus I believe. (Its an annual vaccine- when they are babies they get a booster 4 weeks after their first one) (Another note: some people do choose not to vaccinate their goats)

BoSe- Is Selenium and Vit E which is very lacking in a lot of diets. It is necessary to maintain muscle tone in adults, and prevent “white muscle disease” in kids.

I use Fir Meadows LLC for herbals for MAITENENCE of cocci, parasites, illnesses. 
I still check fecals and if they get wormy I will chemically worm them. I have heard good things about Mollys as well- That site fias co farms- is a WEALTH of knowledge.

I agree with Saltey that the multiple dose stuff won't be as bad with the bottle feeding. I just spaced that you were bottle feeding. And Baycox is pricey.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

CDT- Vaccine for Clostridial diseases (they can be fatal and very sudden) Its also for Tetanus I believe. (Its an annual vaccine- when they are babies they get a booster 4 weeks after their first one) (Another note: some people do choose not to vaccinate their goats)

BoSe- Is Selenium and Vit E which is very lacking in a lot of diets. It is necessary to maintain muscle tone in adults, and prevent “white muscle disease” in kids.

I use Fir Meadows LLC for herbals for MAITENENCE of cocci, parasites, illnesses. 
I still check fecals and if they get wormy I will chemically worm them. I have heard good things about Mollys as well- That site fias co farms- is a WEALTH of knowledge.

I agree with Saltey that the multiple dose stuff won't be as bad with the bottle feeding. I just spaced that you were bottle feeding. And Baycox is pricey.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

You can purchase the CD/T vaccine at Tractor Supply if you live near one, other livestock stores should carry it too. It will be in a refrigerator and will be for multiple species. You will need a 3cc syringe and a package of needles (I would choose 20 gauge, 3/4"). Each goat kid should have 2 mLs injected subcutaneously then repeat that in 3 weeks then repeat it one more time 3 weeks later. So 3 doses, with 3 weeks between each. I'm suggesting a third dose because they are very young and also because their dam's vaccination status is unknown.

Just as reminders because I know we are throwing tons of information at you:
1. don't forget to find someone who can band the buckling to wether him in a few weeks, a vet would be fine but an experienced goat owner would be best. He should have tetanus anti-toxin at this time. And some owners give a bit of pain killer as well.

2. Be sure to secure some good quality bales of hay and find a source for winter. Get them started eating hay ASAP since they don't have their dam's to learn from.

3. Goat pellets/grain can be offered all the time right now as they learn to eat it well.

How is the bottle feeding going? Are they seeming more active and playful and energetic? How are their eyes?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great advice.


What cute goats.


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## rochelle (Jul 10, 2016)

Your babies are adorable! Love them ️ I have a baby that is 2 months 2 weeks old, so wish I would have gotten 2 cuz he's dependent on me or maybe I am on him??? I have separation anxiety when I put him outside with the others... we named him "Pieces" cuz we have a "Bits" so now we got "Bits & Pieces" here's a pix of both of them...






and as for the worms & stuff it's confusing! I'm still learning, I read & REREAD these posts almost everyday to learn...wish I could catch on but guess it takes time, practice & patience! G' Luck to you️ very cute kids! McCloud for the boy...?? Or something like that...


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Howdy Everyone...

So, just a quick update...

The kids are doing great!!! Eyes are fine now (Baxter still has a cloudy patch on the iris of his eye, but it doesn't seem to bother him and I'm hoping it will go away in time, so, for now, I'm just keeping an eye on it (see what I did there???)...Lice is proving to be a bit more tricky, but mainly because I'm using Python Dust and I don't think it gets into all the cracks and creases...I'll be using Flysect Super 7 on them today to see if that works better...

I haven't done a Coccidia treatment or worming yet as the company I ordered the supplies from was very slow to ship...I want to do all that today too, but it seems like a lot of chemicals to put on/in them all at the same time, so I'll probably space that out over the next few days...

I was going to whether Baxter myself as we've yet to find a goat vet in the area...I've watched the videos and it's pretty straight forward...Thoughts???

As for vaccinations, I haven't done CDT or BoSe yet, but will move on to those next week probably, once this week's treatments have had a chance to sink in...

*MY BIG QUESTION RIGHT NOW IS...*

How much formula should they be getting??? They are on goat milk/evap goat milk/buttermilk formula that was suggested here by GoatMama123...I read on Goat Spots that they should be getting about 20 ounces each a day, but, between grazing, alfalfa, sweet grains, minerals and the crap they eat (they will eat anything they find at this point) I don't know that they really need that much formula...They got about 15 ounces a day last week and only demand a bottle a couple times a day (if that)...They usually go about 8-10 hours without a bottle and they get 5 ounces per feeding...I try to make sure they get that over a 24 hour period, so they get a feeding at least three times a day (more if they demand it)...Tonight they only went 6.5 hours between feedings and Baxter stopped drinking after about 4 ounces (that was a first, he never rejects a bottle) so Hazel finished his for him...

So that's where I am...If I'm missing anything that needs doing, or you have some advice on feeding, whethering, treatments or immunizations *PLEASE* share it...This is my first time raising goats, and I don't want to assume that just because they seem healthy that my bases are covered...

Thanks for the continued support!!!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How much do they each weigh now? And what age are they up to?


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Sorry...

Baxter is the boy and he's 5 weeks old and weighs a solid seven pounds six ounces...

Hazel is the little girl and she's 4 weeks old and weighs just over eight pounds...

They are Pygmy/Nigerian cross...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes so they both should still be taking at least 3 bottles per day with VIGOR. If they aren't interested, is the temperature of the formula 100 F when you feed it? 

Their guts may be in pain with coccidia or parasites until you finish the treatment and that may be why they are stopping as well.

Approximately 20 ounces each per day broken into 3 bottles is correct for their current sizes. They are way too young to wean so you really need to get them drinking those bottlesor they will not grow well.


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## Brillig (Sep 3, 2016)

Hi Katey...

So, just to clear this up...They ARE eating very well, but Baxter refused his first bottle and that was because he was too full, not because he hates the formula...They are still eating quite well, but Baxter DOES have some diarrhea...They started on Coccidia treatment yesterday...

Is there anything else I can do to help him with the scours???

Thanks for the info on amounts to feed though...I think I'm right on track there...


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## 2appsloosa (Apr 12, 2016)

When mine had scours at about a week old I gave them Pepto Bismal and it cleared it right up.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## kingoftopsoil (Apr 8, 2017)

GoatMama123 said:


> Have they had CDT, BoSe?


Might v bggmg b bg


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

What precious babies! I am so glad they are where they will get good care and love, now. If you can find some, and would rather avoid more medicine for now, blackberry leaves will stop scours beautifully! I had one that wouldn't stop even with pepto bismol. I grudgingly handed her a small blackberry bush I bought to plant. The scours were stopped...I swear it seemed almost instant but I know it wasn't.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

kingoftopsoil said:


> Might v bggmg b bg


 What are you trying to say?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

This is a old thread.


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