# Sigh............What now?



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, so I FINALLY have good milk from Heidi....but only lasts 24 hours and goes bitter....off....yucky....

I milk into SS pail...within minutes I strain through a KenAG milk filter into glass quart jars. put in ice water in a bowl, and into the fridge in the ice water. Fridge is set one level higher than suggested and things at the top in the back get really cold, almost icy....

Jars,SS pails are washed with dish soap,rinsed, put in bleach water, rinsed and air dried...

Any suggestions?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, I think you are narrowing it down to being the goat that is the problem.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I have to agree with that. But are you pasteurizing the milk? I'd try washing the pails in the dish washer. Are you washing her udder?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Could she be eating a weed that the others are not eating? Curious, because some of mine will eat the sticker bushes (non blackberry kind) and others won't even touch it. Since you are feeding them all the same thing.... maybe? I'm hoping it isn't Heidi however that might explain why one day it was good and the next it was bad. So sorry you are going through this.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I have heard a copper deficiency can cause off tasting milk.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Are your jars new canning jars? Or did they have a past life? Things like pickle, red sauce, etc. soak into the glass and sour milk.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well, the milk is good until the next day or two...

Jars had red sauces in them.
I wash her udder with udder wash from Fiasco farms recipe and dip after.
I am not pasteurizing milk.
She had really bitter milk then I gave copper bolus and it improved...it still is great if you drink it that day, but after it sits in the fridge for a day it gets bitter again.

I just gave selenium/e gel tonight since she had not had it since kidding May 2nd.

I wash the jars and SS pails in dish soap, then rinse and soak for 1-2 minutes in bleach water, then rinse again and air dry.

I may try pasteurizing in the next couple of days....just to see if it helps. How soon should you pasteurize milk after milking?
And what is the cooling process?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> Could she be eating a weed that the others are not eating? Curious, because some of mine will eat the sticker bushes (non blackberry kind) and others won't even touch it. Since you are feeding them all the same thing.... maybe? I'm hoping it isn't Heidi however that might explain why one day it was good and the next it was bad. So sorry you are going through this.


No, they get hay only and grain right now.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Unfortunately, I think you are narrowing it down to being the goat that is the problem.


Well, I hope not but why would it taste good for a day only? I stick it in ice water within minutes of milking and it goes right into the fridge (fridge is a year old and works great)


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The acid in the glass jars is seeping into your milk. You can't wash it out. Try some new canning jars.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I agree! Has to be the jars or your refrigerator if it gradually worsens after cooling. A lot of people we know have had problems with overused jars.


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## adriHart (Nov 1, 2012)

also when you pull the jars out of the bleach solution don't rinse them again, just let them air dry. in other words don't rinse the bleach off, it needs to sit to sanitize.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

goathiker said:


> The acid in the glass jars is seeping into your milk. You can't wash it out. Try some new canning jars.


will do....I have some gallon jars, I'll try those.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes...


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

I was having the same problem with my milk until I read on here that you are not supposed to shake goat's milk. I would shake the cream back into it before I poured it. The next time I used it - GOATY!!! this was happening all the time. I stopped shaking and now just rotate a little. It seems to have helped a bunch. I do have one doe however that we can not drink the milk from- I am hoping that it is the rag weed she sometimes eats though and still milking her for the piglets.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Research how toxic Chlorine bleach is for your body, you will change your mind on "not rinsing your glass jars" . 

Buy new 1/2 gallon canning jars and use those. 

Instead of putting your jars of milk in ice in the refrigerator, put them in the coolest spot in your freezer. Preferably right next to the air vent in the freezer. I leave mine in there for about 1 hour, then move them to the fridge. I like to leave them almost two hours if I am not going to use them right away, they get about 1/4 to 1/2 frozen and it seems to make them keep longer and I have noticed it takes away from the onset of goatiness! I have noticed if I take my jars out of my ice water and into the fridge, my milk taste goaty, but not if I do the freezer trick first. 

I set a timer so I dont forget the Jars of milk. If you plan on freezing milk in glass jars, don't fill the jars over 3/4 full or your jars will break.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well today i used a new half gallon canning jar. But the milk will probably be gone before tomorrow...lol.....the kids used it for cereal this am and I am only getting 1 1/2-2 quarts a day. Oh, and I left the top off to cool....


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, tested and it still does it. I'm gonna borrow Mom's double boiler (I don't have one yet!) and see if it helps to pasteurize. If it does I will continue that...

It stinks though, I wanted to drink raw! Her milk is good for a day though...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The only symptom of a sub-clinical staff infection is the milk going bad quickly. Might be time to send in a milk sample...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How to store and where would I send it? To my local vet?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I've frozen my jars too over night and then poured the milk in there, then put it in the freezer. I've also read from someone (either happybleats or zymenah) said they put the jars in an ice water bath and pour right in there after milking to get the temp down really quickly.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Great ideas nchen7....I pateurized this am in a double boiler...will test tomorrow...for now milk is good!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> How to store and where would I send it? To my local vet?


I would start with the vet to point you to where to send the milk samples. I think Goathiker might be on to something. Since you don't have any problems with your other does milk, I don't think it's your process, but it wouldn't hurt to try


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well I only tried my other does milk once...and it was only enough to taste so I didn't hold any over....today I pasteurized so tomorrow will tell me more....Gulp!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh, I thought you had 2 milking sorry! Then try the different process, and if that doesn't work then I would get ahold of a vet to see where you test the milk. Honestly I personally would want to get the milk tested, because if it is an infection it will probably get worse with time... I hope you find the answer soon!!! Sorry you have to go through this how frustrating but on the other hand we've all learned a ton


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL ^^ Glad to oblige janeen!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Be sure to really chill the milk before you pasturize it, it helps keep the flavor from going awry.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Here is a few hints on getting the best tasting milk possible. First, ill explain why cows milk tastes the way it does. The biggest part is when they milk. The more time you give a milking animal between when you feed them to when you milk them, the better the milk will taste. On a commercial milk dairy, they milk THEN feed them. Not talking about the grain they get when milked but the actual feeding. The minimum you want to wait is 4 hours from the last time they put something in their mouth to when you milk but again, the longer the better. This alone should totally clean up the goatie taste outta the milk. THOUGH I hear Toggenburgs are pretty nasty regardless of when  You can also feed baking soda to clean up the taste and increase butter fat. Though I am unsure on when you would need to give it to the goats for the best results. I can tell you that goats will devour it if you leave it free choice.  So not such a good idea doing that. Also, the cold water bath is mainly to keep Bactria levels in check. I also like to let my milk sit for 2-4 days in the fridge before I use it. At which time I shake it to mix in the butter fat as needed. I think it actually allows the milk to ripen a bit and adds a sweetness to the milk.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> LOL ^^ Glad to oblige janeen!


Sorry!! I try to look at a positive in everything


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, update...I pasteurized by "flash" method and it was still drinkable on day 2!! Today's milk has been chilled,pasteurized and is chilling again now. I am gonna keep trying to see how many days I can still use it but it's hard because we only get a couple quarts a day for a family of 5....with 3 teens  But I know this has helped so maybe she is one of those does with high levels of lipase...here is an article that explains it...
http://www.countrysmallholding.com/features-goats-the-milk-taste-test--213022

I find it hard to believe it could be the cleanliness of the herd. Their drylot is raked every 3 days and the shed is cleaned once a week. Three times a week I throw extra hay on the floor for bedding. It is always dry. When I clean her udder before milking, the paper towel is hardly dirty. I also dip afterwards with Fiasco Farms recipe.
But, maybe I have not cleaned the pails sufficiently? I wash with dish soap and a rag, rinse, set in hot bleach water for 60 seconds, rinse, and air dry.
The new thing I am doing today as well is I am leaving my milk pail in the freezer so when i milk her it will start getting chilled immediately.

I know the previous owner milked more than one goat, so maybe she mixed the milk? Or would it still taint the flavor of it all? I know she drank raw...she said she drank her milk for 3 years.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Telling ya, its all about when they are eating vs when you are milking. Never fails to amaze  Good luck OH and on a side note, the better feed and higher protein they get in terms of feed, means high milk production for you. I have seen drops as large as half when going from an low to average alfalfa to a dairy quality alfalfa.

Now some individual animals just defy all attempts and just end up tasting bad. We have a few here that no matter what we try, they always have that goatie smell/taste in their milk.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok TDG~ They get 24/7 access to hay (clover,orchard,brome) They get alfalfa pellets (from Agway with a horse on the package?), free-choice Manna Pro loose minerals and I just started the free choice BS....since Heidi's issue I have stopped her browse....They get 50/50 Poulin grains sweet feed 18% and alfalfa pellets on the stand...

If I take the hay away from them for 24/7 ....no one on the road would sleep


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

LOL! Maybe try to just pull the milker for say 4-6 hours before at least one milking to test. Maybe give her a half a cup of baking soda when you pull her as well. I know she will most likely yell and complain but she may learn pretty quick to just accept it  Good luck!


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Out of curiosity, have you totally taken away ALL feed and fed them something new? A few years ago, we had this awesome grass hay. It ended up making my goat milk taste like metal. It might be something in your feed that is making the milk taste bad. Try to buy a few new bales of something else and cut out the other stuff you give them. Check the milk after a few days of the new stuff then slowly add the other stuff back in the diet, until you can positively rule out each item. The baking soda sounds like a good idea too. 

I did not know anything about what TDG said about not feeding 4 hours before milking, but that is the way we do it now and our milk always good. Thanks TDG.. We always fed after milking because they start getting spoiled if I feed them before then they run when you try to catch them for milking because they want to stay and eat. Or they scream non stop expecting you to feed them before milking. I hate screamers! At about 5:30 in the evening, my goats all stand around the gate and wait to be milked. Then they wait more until I am all done milking everyone. Screamers get left tied up to the fence post watching the others eat until they stop screaming. Did I mention I hate screamers. 

Something else you can do is either take your goat to someone elses place after a week test the milk or bring one of their goats to your place. Test their milk before you bring them to your place. If after a few days to a week, and their milk starts tasting bad, you know its not your goats fault but possibly the feed they are getting.

Another option, maybe you are doing too much to your containers. I wash my milk jars and bucket out with soap water from a natural type wash, I dont bleach them , I wash udders off with a wet towel and dont use any kind of teat dip.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

No, I am using the same hay from the same farm. The sweet feed and alfalfa pellets are fed on the stand as she is being milked. She can have hay whenever she wants but they always come running for grain time.They are all fed seperately on the stand. I only have a few so they know the routine and only one is a screamer...but she is my PITB girl anyway  I take Heidi first (she is herd queen), she gets milked and then Bailey ( the PITB second in command wanna be first) gets her grain and finally Daisy Mae~ the lowest ranked of the older does and only above the kids.

It is lasting longer pasteurized but I don't know how long yet. I need another milker to know if it is just her for sure but I have to wait until Dec at the earliest.. I wanted to buy another doe in milk but my budget isn't agreeing with me :/ so I have a couple of options....I am looking into a bred Nubian for a dec kidding, and I am buying a Saanen doeling whose mom was used on a dairy farm for years. I will breed her in the fall hopefully along with everyone else, but if I get the Nubian, she may give me milk through winter....


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

go with the winter milker~~


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm gonna try to do both...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm thinking that my Nubian/Lamancha will be milking through the winter since she is due, well unfortunately only Daisie and Snoopy know when the dating occurred.... (I am going to hand breed all my girl no running them together this season) at the end of this month early August.... So I am hoping to milk them through the winter, probably try to breed in January for her and my kinder doe (whose due at the end of the month) Then I will stop milking by the end of March. I'm going to try to have Rosie Nubian/Lamancha breed in September/October as well as my other kinder Patti. So I'm hoping to have milk year round. I'll be freezing some just incase my plan doesn't work out, as I've learned goats can be stubborn.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Think I'm gonna try it year round....worse case? You dry em off....


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Think I'm gonna try it year round....worse case? You dry em off....


That's what I was thinking


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I really hope I can get both....I already have a name for the Saanen....Madeline 
I don't know the nubians name yet...Heidi came with her name S.A.I.L. Acres Heidi of Molly....and Bailey had her name....I picked Daisy Mae. I kept the other two girls names since they knew them.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> I really hope I can get both....I already have a name for the Saanen....Madeline
> I don't know the nubians name yet...Heidi came with her name S.A.I.L. Acres Heidi of Molly....and Bailey had her name....I picked Daisy Mae. I kept the other two girls names since they knew them.


I'm looking into getting 2 Nubians as well... I like the name Madeline. Hopefully you can find out the issue with Heidi.... I have a Charlie Brown theme going...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

HaHaHa That's great!


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

Unless I missed it, how quickly are you getting the milk temp down to at 40 degrees or below? 

My best educated guess... since the milk is good for a day or two... is that you're not getting the temp down quick enough and it starts developing a culture that throws the taste off within a day or two.

Instead of doing the ice bath...

Have your QUART size jars already chilled in the freezer, put an ice back or a frozen water bottle into your milk bucket while milking to start immediately cooling the milk as your milking, strain milk into chilled jars, put back into the freezer for an hour. 

This should have your milk at 40 degrees quickly and prevent that off taste. Not grade A, but you will achieve grade B.

I know we're all giving you varying opinions and I hope you can get to the bottom of the issue without it being Heidi. :lovey:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thank you for your ideas  I am now putting my SS pail in the freezer overnight and will be doing the jars as well. I don't care for the idea of the ice pack....doesn't it contaminate the milk? Most are plastic right? So how do you sterilize those? 
I know some use Ziploc bags but they aren't sterile either, I wouldn't think?? Or am I worrying too much?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I was wondering the same think about the ice packs. I'm going to have 3 in milk soon, so I need to figure out a cooling system down at the barn, but didn't want to try the ice packs for the contamination reason.


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

My opinion is you're worrying too much, but we all have things that make us go "ICK!" when others don't. I milk in a barn where others must have a **** and span milk room to feel comfortable. I use frozen water bottles that I wash in hot soapy water and put back in the freezer after each milking. Never had an issue. Go with what you feel is best for you. 

By the way... I have a Madeline too!


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

First off I hope you find what is making your milk taste off. I am excited for you to be getting a Saanen!!!  I got a Saanen doeling too!!!  I named her Maggie Mae!!! She is just the sweetest. I am going to cross her with my Nubian buck hoping to get production and butterfat. You've done a wonderful job with your goats and trying to discover the off taste issue. Keep up the good work! 

My Maggie Mae!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Gertie said:


> First off I hope you find what is making your milk taste off. I am excited for you to be getting a Saanen!!!  I got a Saanen doeling too!!!  I named her Maggie Mae!!! She is just the sweetest. I am going to cross her with my Nubian buck hoping to get production and butterfat. You've done a wonderful job with your goats and trying to discover the off taste issue. Keep up the good work!
> 
> My Maggie Mae!


Sooo cute


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

AdamsAcres said:


> My opinion is you're worrying too much, but we all have things that make us go "ICK!" when others don't. I milk in a barn where others must have a **** and span milk room to feel comfortable. I use frozen water bottles that I wash in hot soapy water and put back in the freezer after each milking. Never had an issue. Go with what you feel is best for you.
> 
> By the way... I have a Madeline too!


LOL...it doesn't help much I have a 19 year old son at home with OCD  He is always "reminding" me of what is contaminated 

Oh, and I milk outside under a framed area with an old pool bottom as a roof for now....what the heck? It's waterproof!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Gertie~ Thanks so much for being so encouraging! I have been working on this for a looonng time  But at least now if I pasteurize it, we can use it for a couple days at least. i don't get enough yet to last us more than a couple days tops. When i do, I will be working on seeing if it will last a couple weeks.

I really think a lot of it was copper deficiency. I found out my hay farmers land is high in manganese and I have hard water with lots of iron. Both of those inhibit iron absorption  But after the bolus, it improved greatly within 2-3 weeks.

Oh, and Maggie Mae is adorable! I envy your fields for them to run in


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Have any issues with urinary calculi by chance? Sounds like you might with that kinda combination.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

No thankfully, I use Manna Pro loose minerals which contain AC....and I have a big tub of AC on hand in case I ever do have a problem


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

NyGoatMom, thanks, we are so Blessed to have the land we do. The picture of Maggie is our kids play pen. So I thought of you this morning while I was milking so I took a picture of our big girl goat pasture and some of our cow pasture. On the other side of the barn we have our horse pasture. We love where we are in life!! I thank God every day for what we have. We live simply, "living the good life."


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am dying with envy!!!! That is a beautiful view!!

I live on a mountain with woods surrounding all 4 sides and literally zero view 

What a great place for you and your animals! Love the cow too  I always wanted cattle.....

Thanks for sharing...


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

Too funny, I just told my friend I wanted to live on a mountain in a little log home with solar & wind. BUT I would want a view. I do like being huddled in with the trees. We have all huge fields around us. We do have a great view. Especially when we go up to the top of our land. It's beautiful. I'm sure your place is beautiful too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well, why don't you plant some trees on one side?  Make your own forest!

Here is a link to pics of my place...

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f194/pics-our-lil-hobby-farm-150480/


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

Beautiful, just beautiful. What is the white fluffy bird? Looks like an angora rabbit I once had!! Actually we do have trees on 3 sides of us. Guess it doesn't feel tucked in because of the large fields.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Gertie said:


> Beautiful, just beautiful. What is the white fluffy bird? Looks like an angora rabbit I once had!! Actually we do have trees on 3 sides of us. Guess it doesn't feel tucked in because of the large fields.


Goodness! Thought I answered this! She is a silkie hen


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## muddymomma (Oct 19, 2012)

i haven't read through all the posts so not sure if you've found an answer yet. just wanted to say that we got our first milking doe last year. i'd never tried goat milk prior to getting her. i was less than impressed, didn't care for it at all. just tasted goaty to me. i modified my milking procedure, helped a little but still got worse after a couple days in the fridge. figured it was just me (i was the only one in the family that couldn't drink it) and she dried up a couple months later. when she was ready to kid in the spring i finally did some research online, found something that said too much molasses could make the milk taste funky. so when i started milking her again i cut out the molasses completely and the milk is as sweet as can be this time! not sure if that'd be your problem, but perhaps try cutting out the sweet feed and see if that helps.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Did you ever test your milk? I have a Nubian and a Guernsey that I milk, our milk stays good at least a week, more like a week and a half. My goats get sweet feed, and browse/pasture and thats it, oh, and all the ragweed and other weeds we pull and toss in. I milk strain, and just put my half gallon jars in the fridge, no freezing or chilling first. I have used used pickle canning jars and never had a problem. Some goats just don't have as good a milk either, but were I in your shoes I would have the milk tested..


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks, it was actually she needed a copper bolus!


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