# Fish teats... Disqualification?



## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Alright, so I plan to show my 3 year old Boer doe at a 4-H/FFA exhibit day show, and have a question. She is a dry doe (at 3, I know....) but has fish teats. This is a disqualification in professionals, but do you think it is in 4-H, and for a dry doe?


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't know about 4H but in regular shows, it's a disqualification for her to have not been bred by the time she is 2


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Double check the degree of fish teats on the ABGA site. There is passing, questionable and disqualifying - like I have one doe who one teat is passing the other is under the questionable side. As for the not being bred I agree about not being sure on 4h (I'd call the group leader and find out).


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

http://www.abga.org/teat-structure.php


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Thank you for the website. Her teats are definitely disqualifiable by ABGA standards. As for being not bred by 3, it is a 1 year old and up class, so that wont be a problem. I'll have to decide whether to risk it or not, in my opinion she would do great in show, excluding her udder :sigh:


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## imthegrt1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Here is the chart they use


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

4-h show judges are just as critical on placing, and point out flaws. A judge for any show treats it like a state show, dairy expo etc. Judges travel all over the states to judge.
My friend Kristina is a Dairy goat judge, she lives in California, 2 hours away from me and she's going to Michigan this fall to judge the dairy expo and spotlight sale show.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Actually any goat judge will judge any show. They judge state shows all over the u.s. they judge 4-h, ffa, world expos, all sanctioned shows, etc. 
They judge the animal for what it is. They'll tell you exactly how it is. They put notes on the score card, announce why they placed it how they did, its ups and downs. All of it. Its a show to evaluate the animal, no matter how big or small the show is.
Boer associations are much more critical on what is a disqualification than the dairy association is.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I much appreciate the info! 
I have decided not to take her. She is too loud and silly to stay in a little tiny box-pen while she waits for her show anyway


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Hmmm...If this isn't a small county show, then I'd be questioning her eligibility, therefore, I would talk to a 4-H leader about this.
The biggest issue is her being 3 and no signs of ever kidding or being pregnant. I was told that is an immediate disqualification in 4-H shows here. 

As for the teat...
My son showed a % doe kid last summer that didn't have very good teat structure, and she still placed very well - never finished worse than 3rd in big classes.


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## iloveboergoats (May 4, 2013)

No not in 4-h shows ur not disqualified one of my does had fish teats and she got 1st out of 19 so no that doesn't have anything to do with the 4h shows


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Hey that's great, congratulations!! I just saw your post about your win with her  We had a slight transportation dilemma anyway, so Starlight will have to stay home and dream about winning.....


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

This is what I dislike about 4-H and FFA shows. Animals are placed, then the kid takes it to an open show and it is DQd or does not place well and the kid and their family are upset. I am not saying you have to go buy a high $ animal. My kids started with commercial quality animals and upgraded as they went, but they knew the breed standards and would not buy or keep one with disqualifying faults.


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## iloveboergoats (May 4, 2013)

That is what I hate to ! There were people in that class with goats who had NO faults that should have one but ..........


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

iloveboergoats said:


> That is what I hate to ! There were people in that class with goats who had NO faults that should have one but ..........


What do you mean?


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## iloveboergoats (May 4, 2013)

Like my goat had fish teats and won out of 18 goats that had NO faults at all and she still one


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Oh I see... maybe she was better structrually


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

"Disqualifications: Cluster teats, fishtail teats or a doe that has not kidded or exhibited signs of pregnancy by 24 months of age." These are the rules for Open ABGA shows. I have no problem with any goat in showmanship, but when an animal with a DQ fault beats a doe without them in the breeding stock class, then we are teaching the wrong thing.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Oh I completely agree. But some judges don't see a fish teat as a fault. At 4H/FFA shows there is no standard. There should be but there isn't


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

Then what is the point? Should the judge just pick their favorite color? The goal of 4-H is education, so what is it teaching? This exhibitor knows her goat has a fault-good for her! But there are others that have no idea. What about the kid whose goat doesn't have a DQ fault, is decent, and is standing in line behind the goat with the DQ fault. Not very encouraging for that kid.


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## iloveboergoats (May 4, 2013)

They usually pick the best one structurally the more muscle, sometimes fat the better for those shows


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

My daughter had a 4-H show yesterday and the judge checked teats, teeth and pigment. She got bumped down from 3 to 4 because her doe has light pigment. They usually check it all - especially getting down to the top animals.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I guess it really depends on the judges. Some look to be very strict, and some are merciful!!! I believe that judges shouldn't judge by personal preference or emotions. They should make it a main priority to find the BEST OVERALL doe from the class, not the one with one best quality.


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## iloveboergoats (May 4, 2013)

It does very much depend on the judge some judges will just stand there not even get close to u and start placing :/


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Yes, we had quite the unfair judge once. He felt all over the ones he liked, and then barely petted the backs on the others. From my experiences, the most easy going, fair, and kind judges are the ones that are 4-H or FFA alumni, or have had some involvement in either. They seem to understand better


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