# Dehorning procedure with pictures



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't know why that didn't post the first time:

*I would like to warn everybody, the photos I'm about to post with this thread are extremely graphic. If you do not want to see them please press the back button. I am not a vet, this procedure was done by a licensed veterinarian under anesthesia. I am posting this for educational purposes, and why it is better to disbud than dehorn. Gus was disbudded but he still had really bad scurs come back that were like horns.*

First off I want to thank everybody who has prayed for Gus, I will in return pray that you all have a doe year this kidding season :wink: Please specify if you want a buck year instead :wink:

Starting off on Thursday. At around 4:30pm I was in the house doing chores. My brother came in and told me that Gus broke his scur off. I quickly grabbed the remedies Phosphorus(for bleeding) and Arnica(for pain and bleeding) that were sitting on the counter from Tillie's accident earlier that day. I went out there and Gus was just gushing blood from his head. He had broke his scur off and it was just hanging there. I immediatly gave him Phosphorus every 5 minutes to help with the bleeding and called my mom. She came home and so did my dad and then we called a good breeder friend. She suggested we try an saw it off *gulp* Dad and I held Gus while mom tried to saw it off, but with no avail, it just made it worse. We called my friend back, she said we can take him to her house and she'd saw it off. We thought about it and we decided to wait until morning so we could do it at the vets so the vet could clamp off any arteries. We put a pressure bandage on his head which stopped the bleeding. My dad sat with Gus while I went and milked the girls. When I came back the bleeding had stopped. It was around 7:30 by then and we gave him a couple more remedies for pain and bleeding and went off to bed. I was covered in blood, I felt so sorry for Gussy.

Next morning when I got up his bleeding had started again. I gave him some more Phosphorus and Arnica and went and did chores. We had an 11am app. with the vet to have his scurs removed(his scurs were like big horns) After chores we went out and changed his head dressing again as it was all bloody. After we changed it, he started bleeding again. I gave him Phosphorus and a very high dose of Arnica and his bleeding slowed. We took him to the vet then at 10:30. When we got to the vet they immediately took us to the back room. She gave him a local anesthesia as well as several shots of local blocks in the nerves of his face around his eyes to numb the head and horn area. He was out in 10 minutes.

Now, I am giving those with a weak stomach the option to go back now, I want to warn you these pictures are very graphic.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Ok, so you want to see them. Don't say I didn't warn you :wink:
This is a picture of Gus I took about a month ago, just so you can see what his scurs looked like. This picture was taken after the tree branch fell on his head. Before that incident, his scurs stuck up more than what they do in the photo:









Here is what the back of his head looked like(the yellow stuff is an iodine disinfectant):









The red arrow points to his scur hanging there, it was hanging by skin, if we had tried to pull or saw it off ourselves, we may have done more damage than good:









The scur removed, note the arteries are clamped off:









Cauterizing the arteries with a hot iron:









The intact scur before sawing:









Sawing the scur off with a wire saw:


















The removed scur, you are now looking strait into his sinus cavity, it was all hollowed out in there(I thought that was so cool):









The bottom of the removed scur:


















The scur that was broke off:









After surgery she gave him a shot of something to make him come out of anesthesia as well as a shot of Tetanus antitoxin. It took him about 2 hours to fully wake up.

Here is a picture of him I took last night, his face looks funny because of the way she shaved it:


















I thought it was funny she left his little ears sticking out:









And so he doesn't feel left out here's Caesar the unicorn(or unihorn) he gets taken back in January to have the other scur removed, I'll take pictures of him then:









Gus is doing better. He's eating hay and drinking molasses water, he's still has a long way to go. He has been shivering, so I make sure he stays covered up with blankets and I take warm water out to him several times a day. He's still bright eyed and peeing and pooing normally.
All I have to say after all he has been through in his life, if he can make it through this, he'll be the luckiest son of a doe that ever lived. He's been through bad pneumonia, one week he was having siezures(we think mild polio linked to the stress of his pneumonia), a big tree branch fell on his head and now this. I hope he can make it through this one.
Thank you everybody for your continued prayers  :hug:


----------



## PixieDustHollow (Oct 5, 2007)

Poor little, well okay big, Gus! I can only imagine the headache he must have.

Thanks for taking pictures though! Even though they are kinda yucky, they show just how much fun a dehorning is(or isn't).

And your unicorn is quite the looker too!


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks, he's quite the lil' stud, lol
I can't believe how big Gus has gotten! 86 lbs! Where did my baby go?








lol
Actually the process is very stressful on both me and him, but this is my second dehorning that I've seen. It doesn't bother me and I prefer that the vet does it. She's a good vet  I'm not saying it's fun but it is very interesting to watch.


----------



## GSFarm (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks for the pictures! That wire saw is interesting! I've never seen that before! How did the vet hold the wire? 

It's great to hear everything went okay!! I'm praying for a quick recovery!


----------



## alpinemom (Oct 29, 2007)

I am so glad Gus is okay. Those pictures are really good shots. Last fall, I had a yearling doe that had a scur (actually a horn)and I waited for fly season to end and put 2 of the castating bands on her and after 3 mos it finally cut through and the horn fell off there was no blood and the base was all closed up. It has not grown back. That may be something you can do to Caesar and spar him the surgery and stress. We do not have a good goat vet in our area so we are on our own.


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I asked about banding Caesar's other horn, the vet said that since bucks are so 'developed' that there is a greater chance of him bleeding to death. The way she did Gus(she put him under differently than Caesar) was much less stressful this time than Caesar's was. The waking up part.
Sarah, she just held it in her hands and went back and forth to saw it off.


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Mom and I changed his bandages yesterday. The side that broke off had started bleeding again and made the bandage stick to his head. We wet it down then gently pulled it off. The 'hollow' side was already starting to fill it.


----------



## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

How did she put Gus under?


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I have to find the reciept for the vets(she put all meds on there) She used a local anestethia this time along with local blocks injected in the nerves of his face to numb everything. then she gave him a shot of something to reverse the anestethia. I liked the way she did it this time better than last. Gus woke up and was fully able to walk, eat etc within an hour and a half after the procedure.
With Caesar, she gave him atripine(number i think) rompum(to put him down) and cetamine(to keep him under) It took Caesar 5 hours before he was fully active again.
Our vet isn't a goat vet, but she is very caring with the goats, she had a book with dosing instructions for putting goats under. I will ask her next time I see her if she can tell me what she did though.
Talk with your vet before hand, and find out what he/she wants to use to put the goat under. I don't know for sure, but I think its the gas masks and general anestethia that you have to stay away from.


----------



## greif (Nov 3, 2007)

how much does it cost to have the scurs removed?


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

It will vary from vet to vet but for our vet, it was a total of $140 for one visit. I thought that was very reasonable for how good of a job she does.


----------



## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

well I'm glad it went well! I can remember Demi's dehorning like it was yesterday - so gross! That hole on Gus's head looks just like hers did! But then I didn't get the fancy bandage... it was cotton wool and micropore on off every day for a week...  because the vet said I had to spray this antibiotic on her head every day. She really hated the bandage changing - but she has forgotten it now, thankfully!!!


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

We changed his 3 times during the week, we just took it off on Thursday. He was SSSSOOOOOOOOOO happy to have the bandages off  He went over and head butt with the does when I took him on a walk today, didn't realize that that hurts when you do that :roll:
Here's pics of his holes, I don't know what order the thing will put them in, this is my first time attaching pics on here 
We are still cleaning it with peroxide and putting calendula tincture on it everyday.


----------



## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

is it my imagination, or is the side that broke not flat? I would have thought that if it hadnt been sawed right to the base - like the right side - that it might grow back?


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

The side that broke off still has some sticking up on it, we decided not to saw it off, he's a wether, so I don't think it is going to grow any, if it does, we'll band it. The first pic, showing how his scurs looked, they have been that long since he was 3 months old. We castrated him at 3 months(due to his illnesses) and since we castrated him they stopped growing.
He still has a little hole going down his sinuses, he's blowing bubbles out it :roll: He came in the house yesterday, followed mom right in. So we just put peroxide and calendula on him in hte house, he thought that was something


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

so this wether is one that will be staying I see

Some of them have a way of doing that


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Yep! My parents said I could keep Gus, I mean after all he's been through, I couldn't eat him :shock: He's such a nice guy and he's Caesar's buddy anyway


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I think having a goat around that does just about nothing is a perfect way to keep you grounded in why you have goats. At least for me anyway. 

Jasper is my way of keeping myself sane when the girls are hormonal and driving me bonkers and when they just won't kid! He nussles up to me and yah I know why I have goats once again.


----------



## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

you, gus, and your mom are pretty tough!! what a lot of 'adventures' for you all. i am so glad that gus is doing ok now as he heals. how long before the sinus closes over? 

is there a reason to remove scurs if they do not head back into the head? are they more prone to break off than a proper horn? one of my wethers has two scurs, one of which i am afraid will curve back toward his head. the other seems so far to be more straight. both still quite short and he is now seven months, so maybe they won't even grow much more. i just don't want him to have any trouble, though it would be so great to not have to go through scur removal of any kind.


----------



## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm glad you get to keep him =)


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Stacey, I agree, everybody needs a pasture ornanment, and Gus LOVES to snuggle. Caesar is sweet too but Caesar is sticky :roll: I remember when Gus had pneumonia, we had to have him in the house, and the only way he would sleep is curled up with me on the couch, he is so sweet 
cute kids, 
His sinuses will take probably about 2 weeks to fully close, he still has a little hole that he's blowing bubbles out of but it is closing up.
One of the biggest reasons to remove scurs is because the bigger ones(like Gus') will break off and bleed quite a bit. Gus' scurs were just like horns, but scurs themselves are weaker in structure than real horns are. Gus' scurs were significantly weakened after he had the tree branch fall on his head, it actually repositioned the scurs. Caesar broke his scur while fighting. I have does with small scurs that break off about once a month, no biggy. I have a couple that I need to band the scurs. You see, with wethers, they do not have the hormones that bucks have, so things like that either a) don't grow or b) if they do grow, it's not very fast. On Caesar, there was a little bit the vet missed when she took off his one scur, and that is already growing back. It will be taken care of in January.
Gus was the first kid I disbudded and I freaked out on him and messed him up. My mom re-disbudded him 2 weeks later but he still ended up with scurs.
With your guys, if the scurs aren't that big, I would recommend just banding them, that would be the easiest thing to do.


----------



## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks, sarah. the scurs now are one inch, if that, so still quite small. can you band when this small, or should i just wait and see and then band when a little longer?


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

You can band them when they are small, it is better to get them now than it is for the scurs to get bigger and get knocked off. I'll have to look, but I think on that thread on band dehorning(I forget if its this forum or CSC) I posted a link with pics on band dehorning. Basicly you shave the area around the scurs, then take an elastrator band and put it all the way at the bottom of the scur, on the fleshy base(if you get it higher than the fleshy base you won't get a good job done) then after the band has been placed, you put electrical tape and duct tape over it to keep it in place.


----------



## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I found a great website for banding horns, but I can't remember it.


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

WOW, thanks for the pictures. They were pretty bad for the weak stomach, but the warning was great.
Glad to hear he is better.


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

http://www.freewebs.com/oakmoonfarm/banddehorning.htm
There is the website about banding horns.


----------



## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

very nice website. great instructions and photos. she says between 7-9 months is best, so i guess i am off to buy an elastrator. i also need to build a stancion!!!!
thanks for the link and advice.


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

No problem. Any other questions, feel free to ask


----------



## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

OMG!!!!! HOW SAD!!!!! We had that done twice and they were younger but they had a big ''helmet'' on too. I shouldn't have looked. It is terrible that my simon and daisy went through that. They were miserable afterwards. Lola died from it. Simon had diarrhea. Daisy was crying. The vet put it on tight on simon and he was gasping for air. And for simon who was a month old it cost $350! The vet charged $25 for a tetnus shot and $25 for bantimine. I never liked that vet anyway. He gave Lola too much anestisia and that killed her. We have a nice vet now. Was your goat upset afterwards?????


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

No, he wasn't to upset, he hurt alot though.
Anestethia and goats tend to not mix, so it is VERY important that you have a good vet taht knows how to give it to goats. Local anestethia usually does little or no harm, general and gas masks you have to stay away from.


----------



## Nupine (Nov 13, 2007)

Did the vet use local and sedation or general?????


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

SHe used local and I *think* she used sedation but I'm not sure, I'll have to check. To my knowledge, you cannot use general on a goat.


----------



## laststraw (Oct 7, 2007)

I just wanted to say, once again, how much I appreciate this forum! I learn so much from reading these threads. It is absolutely invaluable. Thank you for sharing!!


----------



## kritterkeeper (Nov 27, 2007)

I feel for you and Gus... 

We have had 3 pygmy weathers done because their horns came back well 2 had been done as babies and one we got at 5 mo and did not want horns.... BUT at the time I thought it was a good thing but unless it was a emergency I would not do it again... 

BUT I NEVER SAY NEVER... IT was very hard on them and us... I love my animals and hate to see them unhappy... The first one was at the vets till he woke up 

the other two I had done the same day and I brought them home a sleep... They stayed in the kitchen that night lucky they are small and could stay in a dog crate... 

So Good Luck with GUS and give him a huge from me

and Cody, Renny and Trey they feel for him..

Donna B


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for sharing that, I know how stressful it is on both the goat and yourself. But you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

Gussy is back to himself, he's starting to grow little scurs back on the one side *dang it* I'll band them when they get bigger.

He's so funny, if you let him out he jumps and twists around, he's such a happy fella 

I'm still waiting for Caesar's goat coat to come(hopefully today) then I have to make an app. to take his other scur off. (oh joy)


----------



## kritterkeeper (Nov 27, 2007)

*OH I was not saying you were wrong for doing it!THAT IS IT YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO!*

Cody, Renny and Trey had it done last winter and are all doing great and are happy little boys... 

and everyone is much safer with the horns gone... We are getting their Mother next month and she has horns I do not want to get them done but you never know what could happen--

I do not want people or goats to get hurt and for everyone safety if I had to I would have them removed... Just don't like the thought of it.. :lol:

Donna B


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh, I didn't mean anything by that, I was just saying ya gotta do what you gotta do :wink:

I agree with you, about safety issues(I've been hit in the face by horns more than once) and I've also seen what horns can do to goats.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh, how good it went well! And cred to your vet, please!

Funny, I had to read the thread (is that the English word for a discussion like this one?) three times before I realised there were two billies on the pictures...  I could not understand where the third horn came from (Latin: cornus) ... :scratch: 

So I registered on this forum, to ask about that ...  OK, now I am here, and I could just as well stay, what do you think? :wave: 

In my own flock of goats, in happy memory, I had one accident with a broken horn, which led to an operation similar to this one. But it was long ago, and was made with simpler methods. Rompun, though, that is a good medicine. (Only remember that goats requre much less than cows, per kilogramme body weight. And the african dwarf goats, in case some of you have such, still less. Too much of the drug will kill them.)

Kindest regards from
/Trollmor


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re:*



goathappy said:


> Stacey, I agree, everybody needs a pasture ornanment, and Gus LOVES to snuggle. Caesar is sweet too but Caesar is sticky :roll: I remember when Gus had pneumonia, we had to have him in the house, and the only way he would sleep is curled up with me on the couch, he is so sweet
> cute kids,
> 
> (...)
> ...


Lovely goats! They are well able to be trained, almost like dogs. 

But banding "horns"? If I understand correctly, this is painful.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Hi! A member at

http://www.alternativ.nu

has linked to your instructive pictures. In the same thread, another member has now entered an alternative to dehorning:

http://www.alternativ.nu/index.php?topic=117871.20

I hope the links work!

:kidred:

/Trollmor


----------



## callmemrbig (Mar 28, 2013)

So I have a 7 week old buckling and he has buds coming out of his head now is it to late to get his buds removed and thank you for the pictures they where AWSOME!!!!!!


----------



## KymberLeAnn (Sep 16, 2012)

callmemrbig said:


> So I have a 7 week old buckling and he has buds coming out of his head now is it to late to get his buds removed and thank you for the pictures they where AWSOME!!!!!!


How big are the 
I have a little buckling that we tried to use dehorning paste on when he was little but it didn't work, so he is 3 months old now and we decided banding them was the way to go.


----------



## katie (Dec 3, 2012)

our girl is almost two weeks old. Is it to late to dehorn her ourselves with a iron?


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

katie said:


> our girl is almost two weeks old. Is it to late to dehorn her ourselves with a iron?


2 weeks shouldn't be too late. I've done it up to almost 4 weeks. Just make sure you pop the horn cap off then cauterize the buds.


----------



## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Katie-it's not too late but you may have to do it more than once...I wouldn't wait any longer though


----------



## katie (Dec 3, 2012)

Goats Rock said:


> 2 weeks shouldn't be too late. I've done it up to almost 4 weeks. Just make sure you pop the horn cap off then cauterize the buds.


how do I do that?


----------



## katie (Dec 3, 2012)

still said:


> Katie-it's not too late but you may have to do it more than once...I wouldn't wait any longer though


I'll do it tomorrow. Do you think it will grow to much in one day?


----------



## still (Mar 16, 2013)

No not at all.....you'll be good with one day.....just be sure when you do it peel the "button" off and flatten it with your iron....I always rotate burn then ice.....I'm paranoid about frying their brain


----------

