# Buckling with low temp acting slightly off



## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

I have a buckling that is acting a little off. 
No diarhea. 
Eating good.
Sleeping alone.
*Had a Temperature of 98 degrees around 8pm now has a temp of 96??*
I also just lost a buck a couple nights ago with the same thing acting ok but with an extremely low temp. The one that passed away went down and within an hour or two and was gone. There is a possibility of a slab of moldy hay getting into the feed this week due to a bad bale.. but there isnt the typical symptoms of listeriosis. What could this be I dont want to lose another one.....


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Do you have a good vet? If you already lost one to similar symptoms it may be worth it to call one up -- one that really knows goats.


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

I stayed up most of last night trying to get him better. Unfortunately I do not have a good goat vet and the vet I use I don't trust very much as he doesn't seem to know much about goats at all..
Last night since the only thing I could think of was pneumonia I gave him a shot of pen g (i dont have nuflor yet) a shot of b complex and probios
I was able to get his temp back to normal with warm towels and it held his temp normal through this morning. He does now (this morning) however have dog type poo, and a white bubbly type runny nose. 
That goat that passed away had the same subnormal temp but also had a bunch of other issues with worm load lice anemic and more(new goat) but now I'm wondering if he didn't get some type of pnuemonia too...?


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

If you think it might be .... and maybe to eliminate a few things .... start your buckling on VitB and better if you have a bottle of thiamine (RX).

Can't overdose on VitB so just start loading him up (not sure of goat size to say how much). If all you have is human form then crumble it up and put it in something he'll eat.

This will help for Polio/Listeriosis. To fully treat you might need to admin antibiotics.

You didn't mention what has been going on with your weather and how you treat/manage your goats.

Any chance it could be pneumonia?

HTH and I hope everything works out ok,


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

you need to get his temp back up to normal now.
no feed until it is up. 
place him on a heating pad and see if that works. 

if not you should put him in a plastic bag with his head out. PLace the bag in warm/hot water with his head out and get his core temp back up. 

temp lower then usual like that means the body is shutting down. 
how old is this kid?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the temp is sub ...it most likely isn't pneumonia.... with pnemonia.. there will be high fever...

How old is this kid? If the kid is old enough for rumen activity... his rumen may be off...giving him probiotics...fortified vit B complex... and baking soda for a few days will help....

Get a fecal test done for worms and cocci...how is his gum color? Again... don't know how old this kid is? If the goat has an overload of worms and is anemic...that alone can kill a goat ....the goat will need iron to rebuild it's blood...or it can die.....makes them weak....You have to be careful when worming goats.. that are anemic and have a large worm loads..if you give the wormer by mouth... it can make a goat bleed out quickly... killing the goat fast....it makes the worms let go... from the stomach lining all at once and where they let go... the stomach starts to bleed...so... it is best to inject a wormer at first ..in situations like this...to kill them off slowly..... that may of been what happened to your other goat.... :hug:


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

GypsyGoats said:


> I stayed up most of last night trying to get him better. Unfortunately I do not have a good goat vet and the vet I use I don't trust very much as he doesn't seem to know much about goats at all..
> Last night since the only thing I could think of was pneumonia I gave him a shot of pen g (i dont have nuflor yet) a shot of b complex and probios
> I was able to get his temp back to normal with warm towels and it held his temp normal through this morning. He does now (this morning) however have dog type poo, and a white bubbly type runny nose.
> That goat that passed away had the same subnormal temp but also had a bunch of other issues with worm load lice anemic and more(new goat) but now I'm wondering if he didn't get some type of pnuemonia too...?


Not sure if you saw this post but this is what I have done so far and he is improving a lot!! I did give him a second dose of penicillin this morning along with another dose of vit b complex with thiamine. 
They get CDT shots but no pneumonia vaccine yet as I didn't know it existed until recently.
This kid is around 10-15lbs but is almost 3 months old he was a quad and is the same size as a 3 week old. He was also a bottle baby and has been treated for cocci. 
Does this sound right, continue the pen g for four more days 2x a day. Also do I give a vit b shot with each pen shot? 
I'm thinking this may be interstitial pneumonia What does everyone else think? The other goat that passed went so fast without many signs of anything... But he did have other problems I was dealing with also. :shrug: 
Oh also the weather has been up and down a lot every where from 90's to 60's and humid with some short rainstorms.


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> If the temp is sub ...it most likely isn't pneumonia.... with pnemonia.. there will be high fever... I've read that there is a type of pneumonia that will spike a fever than drop to sub normal temp usually before you can even tell anything is wrong and will be dead within 12 hours of begining Interstitial Pneumonia.... I dont know if that was it but it just seems to be the only thing I can come up with right now...
> 
> Get a fecal test done for worms and cocci...how is his gum color? His gum eyelid color is good he was wormed with valbezen about a week and a half agoAgain... don't know how old this kid is? If the goat has an overload of worms and is anemic...that alone can kill a goat ....the goat will need iron to rebuild it's blood...or it can die.....makes them weak....You have to be careful when worming goats.. that are anemic and have a large worm loads..if you give the wormer by mouth... it can make a goat bleed out quickly... killing the goat fast....it makes the worms let go... from the stomach lining all at once and where they let go... the stomach starts to bleed...so... it is best to inject a wormer at first ..in situations like this...to kill them off slowly..... that may of been what happened to your other goat.... :hug:


I dont think that is what happened to my other goat because about a week before he died I had given him Ivomec by injection SQ and also to another goat with the exact same issues and she is doing great gaining weight and eyelids are getting better just gave her another dose injected also. but his temperature just dropped to 98 and still acted ok (off but still eating and pooping fine) Then he laid down and just didnt act himself and while we were trying to figure out what to do I went back to him and he was gone...It was just so weird as he was improving alot after his shot of ivomec... Thank you all for the help Please let me know what you think?? I hate guessing but I spent all night trying to find something and it just never matched up until I read about that pneumonia...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I dont think that is what happened to my other goat because about a week before he died I had given him Ivomec by injection SQ and also to another goat with the exact same issues and she is doing great gaining weight and eyelids are getting better just gave her another dose injected also. but his temperature just dropped to 98 and still acted ok (off but still eating and pooping fine) Then he laid down and just didnt act himself and while we were trying to figure out what to do I went back to him and he was gone...It was just so weird as he was improving alot after his shot of ivomec... Thank you all for the help Please let me know what you think?? I hate guessing but I spent all night trying to find something and it just never matched up until I read about that pneumonia...


 Worms can do major damage to the goats organs....causing death as well...causing things to shutdown if the damage is already done... it can be a factor.....


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

That's true he was in rough shape I bought him about two weeks ago with a large group and they had to make a 6 hour trip home on a very hot day plus he was covered in lice and had obvious worm issues. Very underweight.. I just hope it's not related to what my buckling has.. But he is doing very good right now and is holding a normal temp big appetite and is acting like his normal self.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi There,

Great News that the lil one is doin better.
I would stick with what is working. Pen-G and VitB. Doesn't hurt to keep up the VitB. You could switch to orally if you're not wanting to stick the kid so much.

I treat everyone that stays with pasturella and I've found it helps .... along with the 'unknown' coughs the vet couldn't figure out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Praying for him.... :hug: ray:


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

Well he is still doing good. Temp is normal I can hear a little rattling in his lungs now but I gave him another pen g shot and vit B. So I think he will be good now. Thanks again for the great help :hi5:


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

I spoke too soon. His Temp crashed again to 97......... and to add to that he now has green dog doo doo to pudding type poops....There was no change in food he is being feed just mixed hay and has free choice goat mineral. No grain.... 
I have been giving him .75 cc Penicillin 2x a day and Vit B complex. and probios.... Hes back in the house to warm up with a heated towel.. 

Any Tips or ideas...??


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

*HELP Re: Buckling with low temp acting slightly off NOW DIAR*

:help: Now he has Green Watery Diarrhea (Sp? sorry)First they were clumps and one clump came out followed by extreme watery diarehea. Even when I picked him up to move him it was still coming out like a stream of water..... :angry: I dont know if the hay bale was different last night or what or if this is coccidiosis but green diarehea??? This poor guy is looking worse by the moment  I again got his temp back to normal with rice packs, gave probios earlier he had a pen g shot and vit B shot.... He is in a pen with hay available and electrolytes also....

What else can I do??
I hope to do fecals when I can but I cant at this moment and his eyelids are pink... Has been wormed regularily...
Probably will be calling the vet soon but he is just so clueless....The last time I talked to him he said why would I need Thiamine and vit b for goats.... :sigh:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm searching the internet for you now. I'll be right back with what I can find.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm just posting this whole article for you. I found it here: http://www.tripleigoats.com/diarrheaingoats.htm

"The causes of Diarrhea can sometimes be easy to determine by what lead up to the goat becoming ill. You can often tell what is the cause of the diarrhea by the color and consistency. Often times a very black, watery diarrhea with an offensive odor is caused by coccidiosis. Diarrhea that appears very green in color and can sometimes be the consistency of a cow patty or slightly runnier is usually caused by fresh pasture, a change in the type or quality of hay being fed, or too much grain. Diarrhea that is brown in color typically is a result of either too much grain, worms, or stress."

Caused By Coccidiosis -

Some treatments include Corid, Sulmet, or Albon diluted in the animals drinking water which will take longer to cure and most often the affected animal will not drink enough to cure its condition. These products are most effective given as an oral drench. Corid can be mixed (1/2 Corid, 1/2 Water) and given as an oral drench, 1cc per 4 pounds body weight, once a day for five days. Sulmet (Sulfamethazine Sodium 12.5%) can be given undiluted at the rate of 1cc / 5 pounds of body weight, once a day for five days. Albon should be given undiluted, 3-8cc depending on body weight, once a day for five days. Biosol/Neomycin is also an effective treatment for Coccidiosis and can be given 2-5cc for kids and 7-10cc for adult animals orally once a day for five days.

Caused By Fresh Pasture or Hay -

Treat affected animal with Biosol/Neomycin and/or Probios until diarrhea subsides. Goats will begin getting adjusted to the fresh pasture or hay within a few days.

Caused By Grain-

Reduce the amount of grain given or stop giving grain all together until diarrhea stops and then gradually introduce the animal to grain again using much smaller quantities. Probios is also effective in getting the rumen back on track again.

Caused By Worms-

Treat goat immediately with dewormer such as Ivomectin or Cydectin. Heavy infestations of worms can cause diarrhea that will not respond to any other treatments except for deworming the animal although the animal will have a healthy appetite. Within a few days of deworming the animal, diarrhea will stop. Treat again with dewormer in 2-3 weeks if neccesary. White wormers such as Safeguard or Panacur seem to be uneffective treatments when the worm load becomes this heavy unless goats have tapeworms. Also if anemia occurs that will need to be treated as a seperate issue using B-12 injections.

Caused By Stress-

Diarrhea that is caused by stress can be treated with probios. Often with one treatment of probios, rumen activity will return to normal and diarrhea will stop.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Here's another article from fias Co farm: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/coccidiosis.htm . I hope this will help. I'll be praying too.

Mild: 
Kids off their food with symptoms of diarrhea. 
The kid may stand by himself with his back hunched.

Acute: 
Sick kids with blood in diarrhea. 
The kid may be dehydrated and show straining in their attempt to pass feces. 
The diarrhea smells really bad and may be green (not to be confused with green diarrhea from eating lots of fresh grass).

Very acute:
Death within 24 hours.

Not all cases of diarrhea in kids is caused by coccidiosis. Please see this side note.

Environmental Prevention:

Proper management is key.
Keep the kid's living area clean and dry.
Keep food and water dishes clean.
Make sure that food and water is supplied in such a way that the kids cannot step in and soil it.

Coccidia are a protozoan parasite that are almost always present in a goat's environment. When the goat is infected with these parasites in small numbers, the coccidia causes very little damage and no disease. When a goat is infected in large numbers, this disease is called Coccidiosis.

Almost all species of animals have their own strain of coccidia. The coccidia of other animals, for example, rabbits and chickens, do not infect goats. The coccidia of sheep may be responsible for some problems in goats.

Please be aware that all goats usually carry a few coccidia. Adult goats have them, but are usually strong enough to resist them. People think of Coccidiosis as a kid "disease" because kids have not built up a strong enough immune system to resist the coccidia yet, this is why kids show more problems with coccidia. If you take a stool sample from your adult goats to the vet and they show a coccidia or two, it is nothing to worry about, it is virtually impossible to eliminate ALL coccidia and worms for a goat (it is normal to have a few). It's an overload of coccidia or worms that you need to be concerned about and act upon.

Our original experience with coccidiosis:

When we first started out, we had just a few cases of coccidiosis here (that we knew of). When we diagnosed the problem, we treated the kids with Albon, which we got from the vet (a dog & cat version of Albon). The vet stuff is expensive- $15 for one 5 day treatment. It was yellow and smelled like bananas. After a few cases, this got very expensive.

I later heard about people treating preventively, but didn't personally agree with feeding medicated feed. This was because there is no way to guarantee how much medicine the kid is getting. I didn't see how it could be effective and thought it may help the cocci build immunity. But, I was still interested in the prevention treating.

Coccidiosis is always present. We have found that you should just assume that all kids have it. All adults have it as well, but have built an immunity. You need to treat is in the young until they also, build an immunity.

After some research, I found that, though many people use Corid (amprolium), but it dose not work as well as Sulmet (sodium sulfamethazine) or Albon (sulfadimethoxine). I decided to try Sulmet 12.5% Solution, a liquid, that is usually put in the drinking water (it was cheaper than Albon). It cost $8 a bottle (16 oz) at the Co-op. Instead of putting it in drinking water. Starting at three weeks of age,, we gave this to our kids orally, with the proper dose per weight (scroll down for more details) every three weeks until they were 3 months old. We also treated them any time we saw runny poops. We were pleased to see the growth on our kids increase. They all around seemed healthier.

After a little more research and speaking with other breeders I decided to switch to Albon (sulfadimethoxine) because it works even better than Sulmet. The Albon 12.5% Solution does not come in a 16 oz. bottle and only comes in 1 gallon. The gallon cost $54, but when you take into account that you won't have vet bills and sick kids, for the amount of goats we have, it was worth getting (ordered for PBS Livestock or Jeffer's - see the suppliers page). I bought the gallon and then another goat friend bought half of it from me. The gallon I have now is the one I bought last year, and will last this whole year, so in the end, it will only have cost me about $15 to treat the whole kid crop this year; well worth this small expense. Di-Methoox Concentrated Solution 12.5% is exactly the same thing as Albon Concentrated Solution 12.5% but is cheaper.

Since writing this page, we started using a more holistic and natural approach to coccidiosis prevention that is working very well for us, scroll down this page for more details)

Interesting side note:

Not all cases of diarrhea in kids is caused by coccidiosis. Usually, when we see diarrhea in a kid, we treat right away for coccidiosis, but you should always keep your eyes on the kid and be prepared for the illness to be caused by something else.

Case in point:
We had a little doeling who had all the symptoms of coccidiosis. She have very bad diarrhea. I treated her for 7 days with Albon and also gave her Ivomec and she still had extremely liquid diarrhea. The poor doeling was starting to loose weight and it was obvious that the Albon and Ivomec was not going to do the trick. I quit the coccidiosis treatment and started her on double dose Wormwood Worm Formula made up into dosage balls. I also gave her Immune Support Tincture. Amazingly, in 3-4 days she was having a solid poops- the first in probably 2 weeks. I kept giving her treatment for 7 days. (It's always better to treat with herbs a couple of days or so after you think it is "all better"). The doeling made a full recovery and the best thing about this very shy doeling's illness is that she now is extremely friendly. She now comes up and says, "Can I have my tasty dosage balls please?"


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Maybe treat for coccidi, give nutri-drench, give liquids, give nuflor (but need to finish pen-g, give vitb, and ....... do you have scour halt?

HTH,


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

THANK YOU SOO MUCH Elizabeth thats a great article! I just got off the phone with a different vet who told me straight out that I will know more about goats than he does and that he knows nothing about them... At least he was honest... but he will send home some nuflor with my fiance and an SQ IV Solution in case the dehydration goes extreme. I did treat him today with sulmet so Im hoping that will help and I will continue that too. I also decided to try some pepto for the diarrhea since its the worst ive seen like straight out the back kind YUCK... But It does stink really bad but its green... I feel like this poor goat is just getting stuck with needles like crazy and stuff poured down his mouth. But theres just so many things that could be wrong and they go so fast I just want to make sure i hit everything without overdoing it all at once. Heres a list of what hes had the last two days

3-4 month buck kid CDt UTD ( Very small under 20 lbs was a quad) Weather Hot 80s + & humid
Probios 5 grams 2 x a day
Pen G SQ .75cc 2x a day
High Vit B Complex 1cc 2x a day
Power punch for goats 1 cc? when needed
2ccs Pepto
1.5 cc Sulmet Day 1
Electrolytes Revytolyte? in water
Free choice Hay
I almost have to keep heating him to keep his temp up.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Doses for Pen G should be at 1cc per 10lbs 2x a day for 5 days
Sulmet should be 1cc per 5 lbs day 1..... he's not getting enough, should be getting an undiluted 4cc dose of 12.5% solution then 2 cc each day after that for 4 days.
Pepto to control diarrhea in kids under 6 months old is dosed at 6cc 

I would consider getting some Spectam Scour Halt...it contains an antibiotic that treats scouring caused by bacteria.

Under dosing beneficial meds is a common mistake,


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks Liz  I will up the penicillin dose. The sulmet dose I put up was incorrect that was the dose I was planning for day 2-5 I actually gave 3cc since he is closer I believe to 15lbs than 20 but I will try to weigh him today and give him more if I need too. I did actually end up giving him more pepto when I went out to check on him so that's good that you said that cause I was worried I was going to stop him up.. I will try to get the scour halt soon still building my medicine cabinet up because I don't get to the farm store often. Thanks for the help


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

*Re: Buckling with low temp *** Didnt make it....*

Well I have never been so discouraged...  My little buckling didnt make it.. :sigh: Thats two gone within a week of eachother.... With no answers for why or what is going on.. This little boy, I drove a couple states away to pick up my kids and I bottle fed him and he was the sweetest guy ever. A gorgous black and white with stunning blue eyes.. My fiance basically says If I lose him I might as well give up and I honeslty am starting to feel that way too. :sigh: Especialy since I have no good vet help and I have to try to guess what is wrong with him and nothing ever seems to work no matter how much I do.... But another one gone with no for sure answers..

RIP Zorro :tears: :angel2:


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm so sorry, Gypsy!
I know how I'd feel if I lost my little bottle baby, Pan.
Rest in peace, Zorro.


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## GypsyGoats (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks Meridith.. Its soo hard to lose them and have to try to explain it to my kids..


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Sooooo sorry you lost the lil one.
I know these words don't help right now .... but don't beat yourself up about it. You tried everything you could.

Can you take it's body in to the vet (nerosopy // spelling?) to see why? Might help to know why.

And ..... don't give up on goats. Give it a bit to settle in. You have learned so much about doctoring goaties now. We all loose them and always reflect back about what we should of done or not done.

For the kids - I think they deal with life and dealth better than us adults do. 

Big Huggs 
:hug:


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I agree with Elizabeth. Don't give up on goats. You learned so much!
Give it a little time, sterilize everything and get yourself a new bottle baby.
I found that by posting a diary thread here while raising my little Pan that I got SO much help and good advice. Some folks might have gotten sick of my million Pan posts LOL, but for the most part everyone was super helpful and supportive. I actually credit this forum for saving Pan's life because when I posted about how much I was feeding him in our second week I was told it was WAY too little! I slowly upped what he was getting and he grew like a weed and even got a milk goiter .
Don't let Zorro's legacy be that you gave up on goats. Take what you've learned and try again!


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm so sorry you had to go through all of this.. if it is any consolation, I've been reading all of the posts and am learning SO much.. and will be better prepared when this type of thing happens in my herd. It's a tough education, but when we're stuck without a goat vet, that's just what it takes I guess. - what did people do without the computer!!!?-
I'm so Sorry.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh no...I am so very sorry...  :hug: 

Don't let your fiance discourage you like that..that is very unfair....  

You want to know something...we "all" had to learn from trial and error or just plain learn...that is why... you are here....because you want to learn right?.... I know it isn't a good start but... believe me... it gets easier after a while and having a great group of people here on TGS... helping each other...is ideal... for learning and support.... We are here for you.... goats are a beautiful thing......don't give up...we all ...most likely lost a goat and know how you feel....it is devastating....however... life goes on and another goat needs a home and the love that a wonderful person such as you can give...... Hang in there :hug:


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> Oh no...I am so very sorry...  :hug:
> 
> Don't let your fiance discourage you like that..that is very unfair....
> 
> You want to know something...we "all" had to learn from trial and error or just plain learn...that is why... you are here....because you want to learn right?.... I know it isn't a good start but... believe me... it gets easier after a while and having a great group of people here on TGS... helping each other...is ideal... for learning and support.... We are here for you.... goats are a beautiful thing......don't give up...we all ...most likely lost a goat and know how you feel....it is devastating....however... life goes on and another goat needs a home and the love that a wonderful person such as you can give...... Hang in there :hug:


Well said Toth!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Well said Toth!


 :hug: :wink:


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so very sorry. I know that felling of discouragement; we had it when we lost several this season. Especially when you try so hard to save them :tears: 
We have no veterinary care anymore. The only appointment we could get was after our sick babies had either died or recovered. Very frustrating!!!! :hair: 
But, after some successes and no new illnesses; I am remembering why I do this. Hopefully you will try again.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I feel heartbroken. It is your choice entirely if you want to keep going, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, but this was not your fault, and you did the best you could. And now, as horrible as it was, here is a little more experience ... to help your own goats, or to help someone else.


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