# Selling goat milk-the legalities of it



## Breezy-Trail

I just saw an ad on Cl that just popped up selling raw goats milk.
They are selling it for $8 a gallon. I am pretty sure it is illegal in NY state unless you have a special license to do so and everything stainless (what I heard).
These people must be doing so illegally, right?

What are some loop holes in selling milk?
If it was sold in a container that says "not for human consumption" would that make it legal?
I hear of some people selling "pet milk" which is actually raw goats milk, of which some people drink.

I know if the pet milk thing would work I could sell it for $3-$5 a gallon and it wouldn't go to waste.

Or if the milk was pasteurized with a certified pasteurizer (expensive I know) would that make it legal for human consumption? I have at least 3 people wanting my milk or milk products and many more friends and neighbors I am sure would be interested...however I turned them down every time they ask because of it being illegal.

If there was a legal loop hole then I would much rather not rent out a doe and sell the extra milk.

Also would it be okay if our next door neighbors got some milk?
Like me give them some? I have always thought it would make a nice gift but it is illegal...maybe no one would find out...but then that would not be right.
I am hoping to make some cheese or soap, that might make a more legal gift.
(this is all based on "come spring")

Is raw cheese legal to sell? I also have a few people who want some cheese...just a few friends from town wanting to try it.

In MI (where we used to live) the raw cows milk was kinda illegal (although some people did it) and others "bartered". Like they come fill up there milk jugs and drop off some groceries or a bag of feed, bale of hay...whatever was okay with the farmer.
I wonder how legal bartering is?


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## KW Farms

I haven't looked into it, but you could ask if they have a license. They might just be selling for animal consumption, which I do believe is legal...each state has different laws though...so don't quote me on that. 

You could give your neighbors the milk, but I don't know if that would be legal or not. Not to mention if they got sick you could be in huge trouble. I wouldn't risk it. Maybe if they were just making soaps or lotion that would be fine, but for human consumption, without a license, no I don't think it's legal. Probably look at your state laws on that.


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## TinyHoovesRanch

Im pretty sure if you are ONLY selling for animals and NOT HUMANS then its ok....Raw Milk is still a questionable subject for people to drink raw so be careful!


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## Breezy-Trail

I wrote the people who have the ad.
I just have not been able to get much info on NY state laws about this, although I do know raw milk is illegal for humans.
I quote from her ad 
"We are taking orders for raw goat milk, starting in February. $8 per gallon, $4.50 per half. Great for making soap, lotions, cheese or just plain drinking." So that means they are selling for human consumption. Curious to know how they are doing it, licensed or not.

You are right about them getting sick from the milk, not a chance I want to take.
Besides I think goat milk soap would be a nice gift for them. Also the first few batches might end up being a practice run and (although not perfect) might be better to give away or use ourselves.


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## Goat Song

You might try looking around on this site: http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/

I tried hunting around on the NYDA, but it was too confusing for me...

FTCLDF claims that on-farm sales of raw milk are legal: http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm#

I can't find anything about delivery or advertising... Here in OR, we can't deliver our raw milk (farm sales only), and we're not allowed to advertise. Makes it kinda' tough for us...


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## Breezy-Trail

Thanks for the info, that was very helpful.
Those were sites I couldn't seem to find.
The first one I seen before, this time I decided to send them a message to verify the "farm sales only" law.
That was posted May 2010... a lot could change during that time.

I would much rather appreciate the on farm sales better than advertising as I know of people who comes here weekly (music lessons) that would buy. That would take care of the extra milk thing and then I wouldn't have to draw up a rental contract. 
Hopefully the on farm sales is still in act.


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## Breezy-Trail

I found out you need a permit to sell the milk and it is inspected monthly by the department.
Not something I am interested in so that is definitely out.
Unless I use a pasteurizer.


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## lissablack

The laws in every state are different. You did the right thing to go to the state to ask the question. In NM it is illegal to sell raw milk for pet consumption even. You can theoretically get a permit to sell it for human consumption, but no one has one.


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## .:Linz:.

Check into the legalities of a herdshare, co-op, or private contract. I've no idea if that works in NY or not - and you probably aren't going to find the information easily or readily, but look around, talk to people, you might find something.


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## naturalgoats

^^ditto. Take a look at what jessalynn has set up... http://goodoledays.weebly.com/for-sale.html scroll down a bit...
M.


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## Breezy-Trail

I like the sound of a herd share.
How many goats are needed for that?
I know we need at least 2 just for our family.
That would leave 3 others for a herd share...kinda a small but good start.
If I was going to do this would it be good to retain some of the best doelings?

So far I haven't found much for a goat herd share. I do know however that a friend of mine has 6-7 dairy cows with a herd share.
It is basically the same thing. So I imagine it would be legal, I will talk to him about the details.
He is a lawyer and a farmer so I know for sure he knows the laws on things.


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## naturalgoats

I don't know how much you need.. I bet you could "share" half a goat lol
M.


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## freedomstarfarm

You can get the info thru ADGA for who to contact to find out the rules foe each state.


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## Breezy-Trail

I got an email back from the lady selling the goats milk (here in NY state).
"lt is not illegal to sell raw milk. You should contact your local cooperative extension and find out about your local licensing requirements and see if you even need them. in some areas, small farms (those who produce less than 3000 lbs per month) are exempt from licensing requirements."

I just have to look up who to contact. I am finding out that it looks as if New York doesn't do herd shares.
Which would mean my friend is doing it illegally.


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## freedomstarfarm

OK here.. 
New York state
Div. of Milk Control
Dept. of Ag & Markets
10 B Airline Drive
Albany, NY 12235
(518) 457-1772

That is who you contact to find out all the rules and ergs. I would be sure to do that not just take someones word on it. :wink:


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## nubians2

I sell raw milk here in idaho and have a permit to do so. As far as inspections go here they are no big deal. they come out once a month and take a couple of tubes of milk and then let me know the results.They dont look at my goats, my facilities nothing. The goats are tested by my vet for TB and brucellois. They figure how I keep my facilities and cleaning my equipment will show up in the milk test. I did make sure though that my farm name was registered with the state as an LLC business though so that if there is a problem my personnel property is more protected.

Of course each state is different but if u are interested in this ask questions about the inspections.


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## ptgoats45

In Oklahoma you can sell up to 100 lbs of raw milk per month of goats' milk. I think cows milk has different regulations. When you contact the state/milk control you might want to make sure they know you have goats milk.

I think in California you have to put black or blue food dye in the milk if you are selling it as it can only be sold as animal consumption.


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## freedomstarfarm

freedomstarfarm said:


> OK here..
> New York state
> Div. of Milk Control
> Dept. of Ag & Markets
> 10 B Airline Drive
> Albany, NY 12235
> (518) 457-1772
> 
> That is who you contact to find out all the rules and ergs. I would be sure to do that not just take someones word on it. :wink:


This info I posted is from a ADGA list. Yes be sure to tell them it is about goats milk you are calling.


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## xymenah

Around here people sell raw goats milk for $8 a gallon most of the time. They say it is for animal consumption but also note that they use it for their own consumption. The loop hole is you don't need a license to sell pet milk in most states and people still use it for drinking anyway but you can't be responsible for it if they get sick because you advertised it for animals.


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## nubians2

I still think it is risky doing that. People will alot of times say" we are drinking this" even if not as direct as that. If u go ahead and sell it than I would think u are liable. It just isnt worth it when the test arent that much and then I know what my family is drinking is safe.


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## Breezy-Trail

I wrote the Local cooperative extension person for my county.
She just wrote back and said I need to talk to someone else.
Apparently she is mostly into agriculture and not dairy.

She gave some helpful tips and I should hear back from this other lady soon.


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## keren

I dont sell my surplus milk, i give it away. 

Have said that, i also accept donations and gifts from the community to help fund/feed my goats


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## goathiker

I think Oregon has the easiest laws. Even with not being able to advertise or deliver milk. As long as you have less than 9 female goats, 9 female sheep, or 3 female cows you can sell raw milk off your farm. The laws are written as buyer beware. If you get sick from drinking the raw milk, it's really hard to sue the producer. Since you have to go to the farm to get it, you are willfully choosing to buy and consume a controlled substance and all liability is the buyers. Even though that law makes it a little harder to find buyers it protects us.


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## JessaLynn

We started doing herdshares last year and I only had 3 does milking at the time.Though between all 3 I was getting 5 1/2 gallons a day and that was more then we could use or freeze.Word of mouth spread like wild fire and I had 5 families buying shares.Not just 1 share but 3-4 each! Now I have a waiting list and we bought 2 more does to add to our herd to have more milk.
My advice...start out small 2-3 does and see what you have extra to offer.DO write up a contract for them to sign.We print what I have on my website out and also have a legal bill of sale to protect us.Milk must be handled properly.We went the extra mile and bought a machine because it milked faster and that means the milk gets cooled quicker.Nothing drops in the milk and it gets filtered twice just because I'm obsessive lol Don't risk lossing everything over mistakes made.Find out the laws and play by the rules.Not worth it! We have made friends with the ones we give shares to and it's amazing because they are super protective over us and have told us many times I should charge more for the "boarding fee" I charge what it costs me to raise them.I don't make a profit much.I'm in it to help others  Good luck to you and hope you figure it out


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## groovyoldlady

I just got this cheerful *cough* missive from "The White House" in response to a petition I signed:

_Food Safety and Raw Milk

By Doug McKalip, Senior Policy Advisor for Rural Affairs in the White House Domestic Policy Council

Thank you for signing a petition about legalizing raw milk and for participating in the We the People platform on WhiteHouse.gov. We appreciate consumer concerns on food issues and understand the importance of letting consumers make their own food choices.

This Administration believes that food safety policy should be based on science. In this case, we support pasteurization to protect the safety of the milk supply because the health risks associated with raw milk are well documented.

Pasteurization of milk was adopted decades ago as a basic public health measure to kill dangerous bacteria and largely eliminate the risk of getting sick from one of the most important staples of the American diet. In 1987, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a regulation prohibiting the interstate sale of raw milk to reduce the number of illnesses and outbreaks associated with its consumption.

In recent years, some Americans have rejected pasteurization in favor of raw (or unpasteurized) milk, citing a range of taste, nutritional, and health benefits they believe are associated with raw milk consumption, as well as a general preference for unprocessed food.

As a science-based regulatory agency, the FDA looks to the scientific literature for information on benefits and risks associated with raw milk. While the nutritional and health benefits of raw milk consumption have not been scientifically substantiated, the health risks are clear. Since 1987, there have been 143 reported outbreaks of illness - some involving miscarriages, still births, kidney failure and deaths - associated with consumption of raw milk and raw milk products that were contaminated with pathogenic bacteria such as Listeria, Campylobacter, Salmonella, and E. coli. The FDA's position on raw milk is in concert with the Center for Disease Control and the American Academy of Pediatricians.

The FDA does not regulate intrastate raw milk sales, or selling raw milk within a state, which is left up to the individual states. Today, 20 states explicitly prohibit the intrastate sale of raw milk in some form and 30 allow it. FDA bans interstate raw milk sales, or selling raw milk across state lines. The FDA has never taken, nor does it intend to take, enforcement action against an individual who purchases and transports raw milk across state lines solely for his or her own personal consumption.

Thank you for participating in this important process. We appreciate your opinions and look forward to hearing from you again soon._


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## .:Linz:.

I signed the same petition and got the same email. :GAAH: It's full of misconceptions and misleading information, in my opinion.


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## realfarmgirl

My family owns a small cow dairy in New York. I also have some dairy goats, and I sell the raw goat milk - but "for animal use only." Our cow milk is shipped via a co-op., and we have state and federal inspections for that. If I were to ship or sell my goat milk for human consumption, I would need to have the same, and I believe in order to do raw milk sales, you must also be inspected by the Health Department, and you may also be required to send in a sample for each "tank" of milk to be tested for drug residues (penicillian, etc.)

It is my understanding that in New York, you must have an individual (or co-op) licence or to sell any milk product for human consumption. If you put a sign out for the sale of milk, you can be hit with heavy fines if the sign does not state that the milk is for animal use. You can give milk away - but not if you are already in a co-op (for example, I sell my raw goat milk, but I can not sell raw cow milk or give it away because that could be considered a misreprestation of the co-op's product). However, if you choose to give it away, it is best to remain on the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and you could still be in trouble if someone got sick from consuming your "product."

I don't know specifically about goat shares in New York, but I was reading about farmers in other states that have gotten into huge legal battles with the government over goat/cow shares. Even though the law didn't specifically forbid these shares, because the prosecutors were able to link the "value" of the milk to the "value" of the feed/money that shareholders deposited, they were able to contend that the shareholders were still simply "paying" for a good, and therefore, the farmers were still responsible for obtaining and maintaining proper licencure.

My opinion, the state wanted to get control over something they didn't have any right to. Goodie for them, more licence fees and more jobs for bureacrats. Just what this country needs... :sigh: 

Don't get me wrong, I think it is important for there to be regulations and safeguards on our food products, but I also believe that people have a right to enter into individual contracts for themselves - these farmers are not misrepresenting their "product," and are actually performing more a "service" than a "good" to the shareholders. (they do the labor for the shareholder)

If not for the blood-sucking state, I would say goat shares and other agricultural shares would be the ideal way to provide the products people want in local ag economies. They could really provide a boom to small farmers who don't want to "go big" just to survive.


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## JackMilliken

Another loop hole is renting someone a jar, and having the jar full of milk.


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## yellowstone

lissablack, just wanted to clarify that you can sell Grade A raw milk in NM, just not in Bernalillo county (and potentially other counties as well, don't know about that). Sometimes you can get it at the Santa Fe farmers market.


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## lissablack

yellowstone - Not without a permit that is very difficult to get. The permits come from the state, not the counties. I'm glad someone has one, I'd like to know who. We had a family down here who got a permit, but only managed to keep it for less than a year. I would have to build a completely new facility to be able to do it, so not worth the money. I give it away. I'm not interested in the scale that would be required to do it commercially.


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## Breezy-Trail

OKay so I emailed 
Pete Kennedy, Esq.
Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund

Hoping he would know some answer to my questions.
I get an email back from him saying he would be happy to answer my questions but I need to become a member first.
Looked all over on the web site and couldn't find out what it costs. Put the card info in hoping it would tell me. It just said "you will be billed for the member ship fee to card XXX".. I quickly clicked out of there and wrote the guy. Come to find out it is $125 to join....just to have a few questions answered, no thanks.

I am still waiting to hear back from that other lady.

I did find out from the breeder that there is nothing stopping me from selling it for craft or pet. She has 16-18 does in milk last year and that is what she did with extras.
Sell to people wanting to make soap or or pet (bottle puppy,goat,cat milk etc).
I think I might do that. Sell frozen milk for soap makers. That way anyone wanting to start the soap hobby for 4-h or something they can get some milk for it. I might only do soap or the family this year. Mom said I need to set up a kitchen in our apartment because soap making is not something for the house.


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## poprocksandPEZ

Hi everyone. I'm new to this industry (don't even have my goats yet  ) However I'm wondering what the laws for selling milk and products for Oregon are, or where I could find them? Also, what about advertising on my future website/sign on my property? Sorry if this has already been said.
Thanks!!


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## Breezy-Trail

Okay so I got a reply from 2-3 people I wrote about the milk sales.
There are sooo many regulations and laws about it. There is no way that I would be any part of it for a long time.
It is $100 to be certified to sell milk for pets only and you need to add blue dye. There aren't routine inspections but if they hear anything they can come by to check it out anytime. There are labeling requirements and I would have to buy their labels for it.
You can't even sell pasteurized milk...it has to go to a pasteurizing/milk processing plant first.

I heard from a near by breeder that milk can be sold for pet and such...maybe she doesn't know the change of laws?
I think if I ever wanted to sell milk I would move to a state that does herd shares.
I may just learn how to do soap and sell that.


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## Goat Song

poprocksandPEZ said:


> Hi everyone. I'm new to this industry (don't even have my goats yet  ) However I'm wondering what the laws for selling milk and products for Oregon are, or where I could find them? Also, what about advertising on my future website/sign on my property? Sorry if this has already been said.
> Thanks!!


I'm in Oregon too, and have been selling raw milk for about four years now. The gist of Oregon's law concerning raw milk is:


> The dairy law exempts from licensing a person owning not more than three dairy cows that have calved at least once, nine sheep that have lactated at least once or nine goats that have lactated at least once. The fluid milk from these animals may be sold for human or other consumption only if:
> The person does not advertise the milk for sale
> The milk is sold directly to the consumer at the premises where produced; and
> No more than two producing dairy cows, nine producing sheep or nine producing goats are located on the premises where the milk is produced.


 That is copied directly from the ODA website. You can read further at: http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/FSD/program_dairy.shtml

You can advertise that you have goat milk soap, but even on your website, you may not verbally say that you have raw milk for sale. I've done herdshares in the past, so I could deliver the milk, and it worked pretty well; but for the most part it's just word of mouth that brings me new customers.

I have seen one Craigslist person who was selling the half gallon jars filled with milk... :laugh: You pay $5 per jar, and they'll fill it with raw milk for free. I kinda' liked that one. :wink:


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## poprocksandPEZ

Goat Song- 

Thanks a bunch! I will go on the website and read some more. Definitely makes advertising your business a little harder. But I'm excited to start a new life for myself :leap: (one day lol.) 

Quick question though ( Don't know if this is the correct "spot.") But in Oregon, how much of a demand is there for GM and products?


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## Goat Song

jesse-goats said:


> Okay so I got a reply from 2-3 people I wrote about the milk sales.
> There are sooo many regulations and laws about it. There is no way that I would be any part of it for a long time.
> It is $100 to be certified to sell milk for pets only and you need to add blue dye. There aren't routine inspections but if they hear anything they can come by to check it out anytime. There are labeling requirements and I would have to buy their labels for it.
> You can't even sell pasteurized milk...it has to go to a pasteurizing/milk processing plant first.
> 
> I heard from a near by breeder that milk can be sold for pet and such...maybe she doesn't know the change of laws?
> I think if I ever wanted to sell milk I would move to a state that does herd shares.
> I may just learn how to do soap and sell that.


 :doh: My goodness, they aren't making it easy for y'all are they??? I'll stop complaining about Oregon's laws now....  
You could always put on your thinking cap and try and think up some loopholes.

Jesse, do you mind if I momentarily hijack your thread? :wink:



poprocksandPEZ said:


> Goat Song-
> 
> Thanks a bunch! I will go on the website and read some more. Definitely makes advertising your business a little harder. But I'm excited to start a new life for myself :leap: (one day lol.)
> 
> Quick question though ( Don't know if this is the correct "spot.") But in Oregon, how much of a demand is there for GM and products?


 I have found that there is a HUGE demand for raw goat milk. My problem is that I live out in the boonies, and at least 50 minutes away from the bigger cities, which is where all my would-be customers live. :sigh: Newberg, Sherwood, Salem, Portland, Oregon City, Tigard, even Dallas; that's where I get the most people coming from, but they very rarely want to travel out to where I am (Sheridan). If I lived in a better location, I think selling raw milk could be a very good monetary resource. I sell my milk for $10 per gallon, and no one flinches at it. The hardest part is just getting the word out that you have milk available.

With the GM soap, I've found that there's a really good demand for this as well, once you have a clientele. If you go to Etsy.com, there are over 100 pages of GM soap, and when you're in the dairy business it seems like everyone and their brother is making it (because it pretty much is that way! LOL.) But if you have a list of friends, family, and milk customers, you have a pretty solid base for selling soap.

Okay Jesse, it's all yours now. :greengrin:


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## nonconformist

Read everyone's comments and thought I would share what I feel I know. Over the years I considered doing all of the aforementioned but ultimately did not for the following reasons:

1) In my state it is not legal to sell raw milk even for pet consumption, with or without dye added.

2) Even herd shares and goat shares are not technically legal. Unless your contract in fact gives partial ownership of a specific animal. This would also require the partial owner being owed their percentage of kid sales, exact amount of milk produced from their share of the animal, milk only from that animal and not substituted from another animal during the time it is dry. They would also be allowed to visit that animal (or their part) on your property at any time. Negatives for them would be they would actually be responsible for their partial expense for veterinary and medical care.

3) Liability Exposure: This is my opinion of any potential claims that could arise. Both my wife and myself have more than a couple of decades of insurance claims handling experience between the two of us.

Your Home Owners Policy will not cover any claim that will arise from the sale of your farm products. A farm product specific endorsement added might cover it but would be very expensive and even then each product you sell would have to be a listed covered peril. This still would not be a guarantee for coverage and even if your agent tells you it will be, they cannot speak for the insurance company and have no control over liability or coverage decisions.

There are to many possible terrible scenarios to list but if anyone were to get sick and they reported they consume raw milk it would definitely be determined to be the culprit. Doesn't matter if they had a peanut butter or spinach recall that week or not.

Even though insurance will not cover it, I have still seen similar claims where the product seller was then pursued by the claimant in civil court. Anyone can file a lawsuit against anybody for anything at anytime currently. That only means even if you are totally innocent, you still have the expense of a defense for yourself.

So now I use all of my "extra" milk at home. Either the pigs, dogs, cats or chickens get whatever I don't drink or make cheese with. I have even used it as fertilizer. Works great on tropical and citric plants. Try it on your tomato plants.

My wish would be that everyone have their own dairy producing goat at home. That would eliminate a lot of problems unless the US decides to follow New Zealand's example, http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-food ... grow-food/.


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## poprocksandPEZ

[quote="Goat Song"

I have found that there is a HUGE demand for raw goat milk. My problem is that I live out in the boonies, and at least 50 minutes away from the bigger cities, which is where all my would-be customers live. :sigh: Newberg, Sherwood, Salem, Portland, Oregon City, Tigard, even Dallas; that's where I get the most people coming from, but they very rarely want to travel out to where I am (Sheridan). If I lived in a better location, I think selling raw milk could be a very good monetary resource. I sell my milk for $10 per gallon, and no one flinches at it. The hardest part is just getting the word out that you have milk available.

With the GM soap, I've found that there's a really good demand for this as well, once you have a clientele. If you go to Etsy.com, there are over 100 pages of GM soap, and when you're in the dairy business it seems like everyone and their brother is making it (because it pretty much is that way! LOL.) But if you have a list of friends, family, and milk customers, you have a pretty solid base for selling soap.

Okay Jesse, it's all yours now. :greengrin:[/quote]

Ah! Very excited to hear that. So helpful, thanks!! I'm sorry though that it's difficult for you however. More milk for you though  Yes, sorry Jesse! Newbie over here :/


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## Petersfamilyfarms

Hello fellow Oregonian's! Our farm is 5 minutes from Monmouth, 15 from Dallas and 25 from Corvallis. I was planning on selling for $5/gallon... do you guys think that's short changing myself?


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## Breezy-Trail

poprocksandPEZ- It is perfectly fine to be a newdie and ask as many questions as you want.

Petersfamilyfarms- I would figure out what you are feeding and how much it costs.
Also how much milk you get from each doe.

For instance- My feed is $10 a bag- no tax. Which is $0.20 per pound of feed and 2-3 pounds of feed per day per goat.
My goats produce 1-1.5 gallons of milk per day. That is an average of $0.50 per gallon of milk my cost.
If your feed is around $18 a bag just change that part of the equation. Sometimes a doe will drop in production for whatever reason...usually in the fall. When it is close to drying them off they are producing 1-2 pints a day. So that makes it 0.50 per pint making it $2 per gallon. Figure out your cost per gallon and try to sell the milk for at least twice or triple that. $5 a gallon is a price I would pay...considering milk sells for $8 a gallon here.


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## Breezy-Trail

I meant sell the milk double or triple your maximum cost.If your max cost is $3 a gallon then I would sell the milk for $6 a gallon, Imo.


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## pennyspasture

Here in Michigan they sell a quart of pasturized goats milk at Meijers for $3.99. That's almost $16.00 for a gallon.


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## Petersfamilyfarms

pennyspasture said:


> Here in Michigan they sell a quart of pasturized goats milk at Meijers for $3.99. That's almost $16.00 for a gallon.


 :shocked:


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