# What happened?



## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I had 15 does give me 28 beautiful babies!
NONE of them had the discharge hanging to warn me about labor, I knew they were in labor because I seen them pushing on the monitor.

over half delivered a baby that present nose and one hoof.

8 of them had sacs around the baby so thick that I had trouble ripping it off and even had to grab scissors for two of them. The two that I had to cut open the sac were born sac intact!

Two had babies too large and could not push the baby out on their own.

I give them grass cut hay free choice, protein/selenium crumble block, free choice minerals, water (of course), and fed goat feed the first two months of pregnancy.

It just seemed like I should not have had so many born in the wrong presentation or with a sac so strong that baby could not get out.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you copper bolus or do any other supplements?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Which brand of mineral are you feeding free choice?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Also is there any chance some does are guarding your water source or that it isn't long enough for multiple does to access at one time? Or perhaps the water was too cold and they didn't drink as much as they should have?


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I bought copper boluses but have not gave them yet. Planned on doing that tomorrow with help.
Minerals are a mix that the extension office developed for goats in my area, so special mix based off my soil samples.
I will be buying auto waterer that are insulated and installing them this summer, but for now we have water buckets that freeze pretty fast. I have been carrying water multiple times a day all winter.
So their water is very cold. Could that be it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you had any bloodwork done? I'm wondering if you have some mineral issues going on.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Just called the vet and the blood work came back fine, no deficiencies at all.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Could it be a copper issue? I have been reading and it seems to be copper....but a few said selenium.I'd be sure to bolus.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you have drought or overly wet conditions?


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

OGYC_Laura said:


> Just called the vet and the blood work came back fine, no deficiencies at all.


I guess I am going to be the odd ball on this one. If the blood work came back good and they are in otherwise good body condition. I believe I would consider the weather. I know it sounds weird but, the weather does effect every aspect of our lives and our animal lives. The past 24 months( at least in my area) have been super weird. SUPER soggy spring, cool summer, unusually warm wet fall and then winter hit. We have the coldest winter here in 30+ years. Almost no snowfall compared to our norms (we do have a storm moving in for this week). I've always heard the old timers say to watch the moon changes for birthing etc. We noticed on our farm we watch for changes in weather when kidding is at hand. It seems if it is fair weather and a cold front is moving in that's when they will go or visa versa. The weather even affects our moods. Nothing like a dreary wet day to make you want to do nothing all day but boy as soon as the sun comes out we are out the door in full speed.

I hope I don't sound crazy...just a thought!! Glad you were there for your girls and you kiddo's!


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

What blood work was done? I think copper deficiency can cause tough sacs and toy knowledge the only way to get an idea of copper status is a liver biopsy.



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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I am not exactly sure what they tested for, vet just said no deficiencies and that all looked great. She did say that giving the bolus anyway would not hurt them either way... She bases her knowledge of goats off of her own three goats... 

The weather here has been absolutely awful and has not been this bad in 19 years. One morning it is 4 degrees and the next is 40. Ups and downs with record lows, record snow, record ice.... absolutely awful. 

The vet said she had never gave copper before, I got the boluses from Jeffers and will give in the morning. If I read the forum correct I wont have to do it again for 6 months, correct?


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

I give mine CoPasure every 6
Months, 1 gm per 20 pounds. They all seem to manifest their need for copper differently. Some thin the hair out around their eyes, some get fish tails, some lose coat color, some get rough coats and may get anemic. I so my own fecals so any rough coat with anemia i check first toake sure it isn't worms.


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Find out how much fescue is in the hay. Thick sacs is common with fescue toxicity.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Because of the unusually cold winter with ice and snow I had to buy 3 round bales from someone new... 
All that hay is now gone, so I called and asked about fescue again (asked when I bought and was told little to no fescue). Her husband answered and said that the hay I bought was nearly 50% fescue... It is a wonder I did not have a lot of dead babies!!! 

So that would be "What happened"
The local extension office referred this woman for hay. I called and reported what she did.


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