# Possible new tailor made Goat Mineral Mix for the NW.



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Have been posting on the "Mineral Comparison" thread but thought this was important enough to start its own.

I have been talking with Boardertown Feed in Milton Freewater, OR. about having a custom tailor made goat loose mineral mix made and so far have been received very well. Now I have been asked to see what kinda of volume they would be able to sell (to see if its even worth the effort). So I let them know I could get the word out and see how much interest there would be in it. Between myself and another breeder I think we would use 2-3 tons a year. Her use is higher as she runs many more goats then we do. Here is the analysis of the mix.

Calcium 12%-16% (would prefer 16%)
Phosphorus 6%-8% (would prefer 8%)
Magnesium 5%
Sulfur 5%
Salt (naCl) 20%-25%
Zinc 5000-7000 ppm
Copper 3000 ppm
Iodine 500-800 ppm
Selenium 90-100 ppm
Cobalt ??? ppm

Vit A 500,000 IU/lb
Vit D3 250,000 IU/lb
Vit E 1000-2000 IU/lb

This mix would be able to be feed to any goat breed, sex or wether. The 2:1 balance and the lower magnesium with wethers in mind. With this mix there should be no reason to copper bolus or bo-se boosters other then maybe pre breeding season (as long as consumed as expected).

Milton Freewater, OR. is located in the Northeast corner of the state right on the state line with Washington (Walla Walla area). At this early stage in the discussion, possible shipping and costs to do so have not been discussed. But am looking for feedback from not just locales. Would you pay a reasonable price to have this shipped to you? What are you paying now for 50 lbs of mineral mix and if you are having it shipped, how much for that as well?
We are currently paying about 28.00 per bag of the premix we get from them and drive the 150 mile round trip to do so. Buying at least 6 bags at a time. I have family in Walla Walla so gives us an excuse to stop by and visit. Another good thing, Oregon has no sales tax.

So any comments are welcome. Thanks


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

We'd be interested. Because we are new to goats not sure how much we'd use. We would not drive up to get it so depending on how expensive it would be to get it would be a factor in whether we bought it......but it would be great to have a NW mineral for goats! Not sure why nobody has done that yet! You'd think these places would catch on! lol.


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## audoneout (Apr 24, 2013)

We would definitely buy this if the price was right! we only have a small herd of 11 right now, but will be adding to it soon, so our orders wouldn't be too much to start out with


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

For this side of the mountains we'd need Iodine at @ 500ppm, Colbalt at @ 80ppm, and L-Lysine. 

What sources are they going to use for minerals? Will they be going Chelates/proteinates or will it all be sulfates?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

This sounds much better than Onyx Right Now at 2000ppm copper & 26ppm selenium at $38 retail.
Shipping is going to cost an arm & a leg I bet.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Would this mix work for the willamette valley?


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Maybe someone could drive it down here and retail it at a feed store here.....why couldn't they do that in the Portland area somewhere? Just a thought....bet it would be popular!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I might be interested. Only have a small herd, but I would be willing to drive down if enough people in Seattle area were interested to justify fuel.


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## trailgoats (Jul 26, 2013)

I would be interested if shipping was reasonable. The only minerals we have within 100 miles of us is Purina (yuck), and Sweetlix sheep and goat (no copper). We only have 6 goats though.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

It would generally work for any location. But with the higher selenium, Id be less inclined to use it in say places above a 2.5 on the selenium map.
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html

I heard back from Barb from Boardertown feed. She is very prompt in getting this moving forward. She sent my analysis in to the mill to get a price check and the ok that they can mix it.

GH, ill pass on the cobalt suggestion of 80ppm. Thats a number I like as well. No idea on the what kind. Ill pass your question along as well.

EDIT: I suggested the 80ppm for cobalt and asked what the mineral base (Chelates/proteinates or will it all be sulfates?) will be. If you can take a moment to speak on the difference, I think it would be worth spreading the knowledge of the difference. I dont know enough myself but would suspect a big price difference in them as one would be more naturally made/extracted?

I also mentioned the possibility of shipping, though thats a lot to ask for a company to do that doesnt sale on line. If it gets to that point, I might actually do a big load and be able to ship it out from here. Will have to see if I cant work a deal out with the locale Fed Ex / UPS.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The simplest way to explain it would be to use Calcium, even though there's no reason to chelate it. 

When a Calcium molecule is eaten it must be met by a vitamin D molecule in order for it to be moved to the bones and used.
The chelating process binds molecules of minerals to their partner vitamin/mineral molecules. That way there is no need for the molecules to hunt for each other. They are usable by the body just as they are. The 4 different cleaving processes are called different things. They all do about the same thing though.

Organic selenium would be nice though...

Bioplex chelated minerals and Selplex organic selenium are made by Alltech.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Yes it would but very spendy.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

I can not tell u how much I like the idea of minerals that require no extra Bose or copper ... Very Excited!!!!


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Would be awesome to get several locations to work together and get some spread around. Like I am in Southern Idaho, I am very interested, and wouldn't mind getting some organization around here to have a group buy with everyone helping with the transport costs.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A friend has highlighted that there is a place here in town that makes a custom blend mix for another friend of ours. The company is Wilber Ellis. More of a seed and fertilizer mill. But, they maybe more willing to ship. Will see what I can find out from them. If they could just pass the mix on to another location and have them mill it up there, that would cut out the shipping if you lived in that area. I know they have locatins down into Utah, Texas, California....


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

I would be very interested, but with only 3 goats and two years in, I'm only half-way through my second bag of Sweetlix Meatmaker, which runs around $25 if I remember correctly. It's only I think 1700 or 1800ppm on copper and I'm not even positive if it has selenium. But, I'm in NW WA and with my small volume, shipping wouldn't be affordable. However, if they could get some of the smaller feed stores to sell it, I bet the market would be there. Up here, we have Skagit Farmers Supply with I think 6 stores in the area. Coastal Farms has stores here and in Oregon - I think they're more of a "chain" store, so dont know if they'd carry it or not... but I think getting it into the bigger stores would be the best way to get it marketed.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Well if nothing else, if this does happen, a person could at least take the analysis into feed stores and or mills to see if they could get it mixed closer to them. The only problem with that is, I think the minimum for a mill to do a batch is 3 tons. So the 1 or 2 bag buyer would need to convince their feed store to foot the bill and sell it.


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

An option could be Azure Standard. They are in Oregon, but they go to many places. I get tons of stuff from them every month in Southern Utah. I'd be interested in the minerals as well, but the shipping might be a problem.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Farmer Jen ... U can look at shipping costs for a small herd another way... I have a small herd too and the way I look at it is if I have to pay more to ship it's only once a year maybe and wouldn't I spend that on Bose and copper anyway... Plus the time and struggle of administering copper sucks!  
I would gladly spend a little extra for an all in one type mineral... Seems as thought the animals would benefit greatly IMO


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I would be interested in it as well since Milton-Freewater is just a short drive from Dayton


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yep, I'm definitely interested.. I paid $40.00 for a 50lb bag of Cargill Right Now Onyx. 50 lbs last me about 5 - 6 mo. Depending on the cost of shipping I'd buy it... Wow, no bolusing every 3-4 months....That would be WAY cool.


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## Moushey1 (Apr 21, 2014)

Darlaj said:


> Farmer Jen ... U can look at shipping costs for a small herd another way... I have a small herd too and the way I look at it is if I have to pay more to ship it's only once a year maybe and wouldn't I spend that on Bose and copper anyway... Plus the time and struggle of administering copper sucks!
> I would gladly spend a little extra for an all in one type mineral... Seems as thought the animals would benefit greatly IMO


That is what I was thinking too! I would buy some, but like others, I have a small herd and may only use 2 bags per year.
But now I drive to Conway feed in Skagit County and live in Snohomish County (Western Washington), I obviously drive a ways (for feed at least) already. So, maybe if those of us in the greater Seattle area, or greater Bellingham area didn't mind cooping then we could get if for a better price!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Moushey that's where we get our feed too; Conway. Their Boer Goat Dev is so much cheaper! So are layer pellets plus they are 18% AND it's a 50# bag not 44 like other places.
The Farm Cat food is also a good deal.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I wish there was one down south here......


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Dave: We have Wilbur Ellis in the Portland Oregon area....so if they do want to make something like that can you let me know? That would be great! They should just carry it at all their locations!!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

That wilber ellis should be able to make it for your. If you take the analysis on this thread in with you, they should be able to make it. But like said, they may require a minimum of 3 tons mixed. So in that case, teaming up with a feed store would be the way to go.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

why can't wilbur ellis make it and sell it at their stores? I don't quite understand that....then we could just buy it through them. They sell other things like lime and seed for pasture....


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Always worth asking. Give em a call or go on in.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Dave I am going to be getting some info on Buxton Feed's new goat grain....they add into the feed their own mineral mix. I am assuming it is a wonderful mix because they used to use Fertrells mix in it....but found making it fresh here in the Portland area was better. So....once I get the analysis which should be soon....I will pass that on. Wouldn't it be better to have the minerals in the food so that it would not have to be supplemented?? Curious what you think. The analysis isn't on their site yet....seems it is something they just did so they haven't changed it on their website.

They said it is making a big difference with chickens with their chicken feed and I would think it would be the same with goats....

I wanted you to know as soon as I get this info from the owner of the company I will pass it onto you.

Tami


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. You would have very fat goats and would have to leave feed out free choice. There are never enough minerals put into a feed. You will always need a good loose goat mineral separate from their feed.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Let me (us) know when this is going to be done, because even if shipping would be a lot, this is still worth a try not to have to copper bolus so often;-) Thanks!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok thanks Karen. Well I could certainly do that too but having a fresh made in Oregon mineral mix put into the feed would be great too......they prob would not need too much of the mineral I would think if they are getting it in their feed. Would think even if I had it out free choice they would not eat as much because they are getting it in the feed.

I am anxious to find out about this feed.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What you have to understand is that there are times when they need more than others. I have periods of time when I can't keep the mineral dish full and other times they hardly touch it. I just don't think it is good to limit them if there is a period when they need more.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Karen as it right.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ours really go through minerals a whole lot more in winter & when prego.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Just putting my notation of interest also. I also drive to Skagit co. And get the feed from Conway...The only local minerals are purina (won't buy it) and small bags of manna pro, so I have to buy them often... 14.00 for a few lbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Heidi in the meantime you can order Onyx Right Now from Dayville if you want.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Funny, i couldn't get mine to eat minerals at all this winter when they were all bred. They only wanted kelp and I couldn't afford to give it free choice the way they were eating it! Now that the weather has changed and they have pasture they're going for the minerals again.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

nancy d said:


> Heidi in the meantime you can order Onyx Right Now from Dayville if you want.


Thanks nancy!

Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## ChismFarms (May 10, 2013)

goathiker said:


> The simplest way to explain it would be to use Calcium, even though there's no reason to chelate it.
> 
> When a Calcium molecule is eaten it must be met by a vitamin D molecule in order for it to be moved to the bones and used.
> The chelating process binds molecules of minerals to their partner vitamin/mineral molecules. That way there is no need for the molecules to hunt for each other. They are usable by the body just as they are. The 4 different cleaving processes are called different things. They all do about the same thing though.
> ...


I want to expand on this a little bit. Chelated and proteinated minerals are mineral molecules that are bonded to amino acids (typically lysine, methionine, ect), protiens ( which are amino acid chains), or polysacharides ( carbohydrates/sugars).
You really dont want to have all of your minerals be sulfates and you dont want all of them to be chelates or protiniates either. The sulfate minerals have a tendency to get broke down and used up (consumed) when they reach the rumen. By the "rumen bugs" If that happens to a very large portion of the minerals that go into the goats mouth, it wont help the animal much. In order to get the minerals to be utilized by the animal, they need to pass through the rumen and move into the small intestine. The small intestine is where most of the receptor site are. By using chelates and/or proteinated minerals you can pass the mineral through the rumen and get it to the receptor sites where the body can absorb it and send it where it is needed. Muscle, milk, or bone, ect production. 
But like I mentioned, you dont want all of the minerals to pass through the rumen. A small portion of those minerals need to be available for the rumen bugs to consume. They might be microscopic but they are living creatures too. And without a heath population of rumen bugs, you wont get proper breakdown of the forages and feeds and the animal will suffer. Maybe 10% sulfates and 90% chelates. 
Obviously sulfates are cheaper but if you dont get the mineral molecule to the receptor site it will not help the animal.
As mentioned Altech has the Bioplex line, Zinpro has the Zinpro line, and NuTech has there Nuplex line. All are reputable companies and I sell hundreds of tons of each brand to go into livestock mineral production.
I wont say one brand is better but I absolutely ask your mineral blender to use a combination of sulfates and chelates/proteinates. I am sure we would all rather pay just a little more for a mineral that works a lot better. When you notice that your herd is eating less mineral and is performing better, you can bet you have a mineral mix that is working.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your comments about still needing free choice minerals while feeding grain that has minerals in it. I agree.....I think it is good to have them free choice.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I just read this on a link someone had on another post....might rethink sulfur.....not sure if this is the same for goats or not....tami

Sulfur interferes with copper use by cattle, and this must be accounted for when using distillers grains as a source of energy and protein.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Nope, sulfur is needed. And at such a low volume, wouldnt interfere 

The mix we have been using has 10% sulfur and everything was good.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok that is good to know Dave.....not all feeds seem to have it.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

So Dave u find any one to make those minerals ? U can just send me some of yours


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm curious too;-)


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

no word yet. ill send an email to find out. though I have been thinking of contacting wilber ellis myself and see what they have to say


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Cool I REALLLLLY WANT SOME .... Hehehe


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Anything yet?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok heard back from the feed store. She had sent me a read out of the mix and a price per bag but it never got to me. So she will be sending the analysis for my final approval. Price per bag is pretty sweet at just 25.00! Thats 5.00 cheaper then we are paying now for the premix we get from them. The bad thing is, they have to order 3 tons to save on the freight fee but there is a 1 ton minimum they must order. She said she could combine it with their winter/spring mineral mix order but they are stocked up on it and dont anticipate needing an order of it till this winter.

So, I asked on the freight charge for just the one ton just to see what that would push the cost up to but let her know I would put the word out to see how much would get sold right off the bat. They will not ship, so that would fall to me. Ill contact some companies to get shipping prices. So if you are truly interested, please post and let me know where you are and how many bags. Thanks.

Oh ill post a copy of the analysis once I get it.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!! How many pounds per bag? I use roughly 50lbs with my crew now in about 3 mo time. If it's something that will keep in garbage cans, then I would most likely need 4 bags, but I would order 5, if it won't keep long then I would just get 3. Count me in;-)


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Will you post the ingredients list as well?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Will do GH. It should follow pretty much suit with what I posted before but as soon as I get a reply email with it, ill post it.

And the bags will be 50 lbs each


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Count me it! I will take three  I am in cottage grove oregon


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If anyone wants Barb from Boardtown feed email address let me know. Might be good to let her know that there is actually interest and maybe send a thank you for her hard work. If nothing else it could grease the wheels


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Count me I ;-) I'll take her email address...;-)


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

I would like her email as well


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanks Janeen and Darlaj! PM with the email addy sent.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I'd like it also. I promise to thank her profusely before asking questions :greengrin:


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

If anyone is making a trip from Southern Idaho I would like to be on that list...Where exactly is this mineral going to be located? Might help when trying to find transportation for a load.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its will be at Boardertown Feed in Milton Freewater, OR.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Kind of bummed I'm out of mineral NOW.....
Yes I just got to be patient!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A few days without wont hurt em. Once I find out where its manufactured, Ill have a better idea of if I can just go and pick it up myself.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Dave.... I just want to say thank you.... This is just above and beyond what I expect from most 
It is truly great that you are ready and will to step up to the plate.

THANK YOU!!!!!

Regardless of wether or not this pans out you effort is appreciated


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Here is the analysis on the mineral mix. Ill add the file but going to try and copy/paste it as well as its not a label analysis, its kinda hard to read.

TPi a Nutra Blend Brand
Main Premix Plant
Solution Report

Formula Description Species Code
BORDR06 BORDERTOWN GOAT MINERAL 23
Lbs (As Fed) Code Name Pct. Minimum Maximum
761.905 DICALPB PHOSPHATE MONO DICAL 21 38.10
493.538 CACO3B LIMESTONE GROUND 24.68
400.000 NACLB SALT LIVESTOCK 20.00 20.0000 20.0000
166.025 MGO56B MG OXIDE 56% 8.30
92.397 SLFRFGPS SULFUR 4.62
28.169 ZNSO36PS ZN SULFATE 35.5% PWD 1.41
23.810 CUSO425S CU SULFATE 25% 1.19
18.000 SE1S SELENIUM 1% 0.90
8.818 VITE50AS VIT E 50% ADSORBATE 0.44
3.392 VITA650S VIT A 650 0.17
2.205 VITD500S VIT D3 500 UNCOLORED 0.11
1.258 EDDI79S EDDI 79.5% 0.06
0.485 COSO433S CO SULFATE 33% 0.02
-------------------
2000.000
Nutrient Name Units As Fed Basis Min. Max.
1 WEIGHT LBS 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000
2 BULK DENSITY LB/CFT 68.7595
3 VITAMIN A MIU/LB 0.5000 0.5000
4 VITAMIN D3 MIU/LB 0.2500 0.2500
5 VITAMIN E KIU/LB 1.0000 1.0000
28 DRY MATTER % 99.0247
32 IRON (Fe) % 0.1143
36 IODINE (I) % 0.0500 0.0500 0.0500
39 EDDI MG/LB 285.2830
40 COPPER (Cu) % 0.3000 0.3000 0.3000
42 COBALT (Co) % 0.0080 0.0080 0.0080
46 ZINC (Zn) % 0.5000 0.5000 0.5000
48 SELENIUM (Se) % 0.0090 0.0090 0.0090
49 SELENIUM (Se) MG/LB 40.8240
50 MAGNESIUM (Mg) % 5.0000 5.0000 5.0000
54 SULFUR (S) % 5.0000 5.0000 5.0000
56 SODIUM CHLORIDE (NaC % 19.9000
60 SODIUM (Na) % 7.8281
61 TOTAL CHLORIDES % 12.0718
64 CALCIUM (Ca) % 15.4525
65 PHOSPHORUS (P) % 8.0000 8.0000 8.0000
108 ASH % 29.6692


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Any news? .... I am really excited about this idk why......


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

Would I be able to get it shipped? I'm down in Grants Pass, Or


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

So I am fresh out of minerals.... What should I use in the mean time


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can you buy another bag of you have been using?


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Yes hehehe


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ya might as well buy what you have been using. I sent the analysis onto my vet and he in turn sent it onto his animal nutrition professor. Once he goes over it to make sure we didnt miss or mess up, can start its production then.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Gotta love a fella that's got connections


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm getting low too so I'll do the same.


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## Mr_IC (Apr 22, 2014)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I might be interested. Only have a small herd, but I would be willing to drive down if enough people in Seattle area were interested to justify fuel.


I would be interested in chipping in. Not a fan of being in the car myself. We're getting a couple wethers next month when we move from Snohomish to Covington and planning to add does next year.

Another possibility for the Seattle area--I work with freight companies a lot. I could check into the price to get it shipped to my warehouse in Kent if multiple people wanted to split the freight cost and pick it up there.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mr_IC said:


> I would be interested in chipping in. Not a fan of being in the car myself. We're getting a couple wethers next month when we move from Snohomish to Covington and planning to add does next year.
> 
> Another possibility for the Seattle area--I work with freight companies a lot. I could check into the price to get it shipped to my warehouse in Kent if multiple people wanted to split the freight cost and pick it up there.


I would totally be willing to be in on that. I'm in Edgewood. Who do you work for? I used to be in the trucking Industry for 10+ years. I also worked for a broker that could possibly get us some decent shipping prices as well;-)


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## Mr_IC (Apr 22, 2014)

janeen128 said:


> I would totally be willing to be in on that. I'm in Edgewood. Who do you work for? I used to be in the trucking Industry for 10+ years. I also worked for a broker that could possibly get us some decent shipping prices as well;-)


I work for a commercial construction company. I buy a lot of stuff from the east coast. The broker I use is in Chicago, so you may indeed be able to get a better deal. I'll do some checking this week and start a new thread to see who's interested so we don't hijack this one. Very thankfull to TDG-Farms for finding someone to mix this!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Been held up waiting on the animal nutritionist at WSU to return with his opinion but Im done waiting, emailing tonight to see if we cant get this ball rolling.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Cool, I'll check with my broker in the AM, to get a ballpark at what it would cost...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Okay, so I would need a total count before the broker can give me a rate, however I just said 20 50lbs bags on a pallet for just a ball park, dropping of at my house, however, a different location can be determined. I didn't hear back from them before I left work, but I'm sure I'll get something back when I get into work in the AM.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I didnt go back and read but did you pass the analysis onto your broker and thats what he is willing to mix and drop off?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

She was looking into having it shipped, not mixed.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, Wild Hearts is correct, this is a freight broker I'm talking about. Having it picked up at Bordertown Feed (I am assuming that's where it would be mixed) and being delivered up here.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Okay, so I do need a list of all interested parties and to find out how many bags etc, to get an estimate. If done correctly I could get a pallet of the stuff up here for about $75.00, so that's not bad really if enough people wanted it... PM me and let me know please...


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I would be interested if it would be cheaper than Cargill ready now onyx. Shipping is the killer though. I can get that for approx. 31.00 a bag by me.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Just to clarify I can only help people in WA...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its actually mixed in California and then shipped up to Boardertown feed. I havent herd back from Barb at Boardertown yet. I have been thinking of maybe sending the analysis to Wilber Ellis in Ellensberg as they are the closest place that can mix it. Then maybe cut out the middle man. Ill see if I cant get that ball rolling.

Going to post this contact info here so I dont forget it.

W 4th Ave AT N Wenas St, Ellensburg, WA 98926
(509) 925-4155


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh, well that changes things a bit but I can possibly help with shipping costs around the PNW if needed. I go to Ellensburg for a halfway point to meet family from Spokane occasionally, so I could pick it up for the local folks here;-) Thanks again Dave for all your hard work;-)


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> Yes, Wild Hearts is correct, this is a freight broker I'm talking about. Having it picked up at Bordertown Feed (I am assuming that's where it would be mixed) and being delivered up here.


I understand. I just wish there were more goat people and things like this closer to me.  sigh


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

I'm a newbie with only 4 pet goats (so far) but I'm on the WA peninsula and I would definitely be interested.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Had the vet over today to have 5 boys castrated with the burdizzo and talked in depth with Matt (the vet) about mineral mixes and the analysis. Id really have to record him in order to fully know how relay it but what it boils down to is this:

Minerals in mixes can be of 2 different kinds. The most common and cheapest method of adding minerals to mixes does not leave those minerals easily absorbed and used by the animal. Even wording it this way isnt really correct as its really more of the source of the mineral. The second more expensive way leaves a curtain molecule in place that the animal can then remove and allows them to actually use the mineral. Again, my wording of how this actually works is pathetic at best but kinda relays the difference between the cheap mineral source that is mainly used vs. the more expensive organic source that lets the animal process the minerals.
Thus the reason why he is still waiting on the opinion of the nutritionist. Its not if the mix is the right levels (which he will weigh in on as well) but more so are the sources of the minerals offered to be mixed by the mill is the correct methods/sources.

So what does it boil down to? This. Any mineral mix will be better then no mineral mix. But a mix that uses the wrong source will not prevent deficiencies as time goes on. This is why when first used, a mix may do good things but as time goes on its less productive.

So, I will be doing more research and study into the correct mineral sources. This will of course make the mix more expensive but vastly better and more effective. OR, while talking with Matt he showed me what he uses on his goats and a flock of 200 sheep that live next to him. Its called MultiMin 90. It is an injectable supplement of zinc, manganese, selenium and copper. Matt gives this to animals that are visually deficient. Not just cattle but sheep and goats as well and has had great success. And as for that flock of 200 sheep that he gives it to. Well new research is easing up on the super low copper levels for sheep. Here is how for the last 3 years he has been administrating MM90 to the sheep flock. Two or three times per year all 200 head are given a shot. Of those 200, 20 are selected to have mineral analysis done on them to monitor how effective the injection are. The flock has noticed a large drop in sickness, high birth numbers with much fewer loses and better birth weights. Better feed absorption and lower parasite loads. So over all a more healthy animal in general. I should mention that they removed their mineral supplements and have only used this as a mineral supplement.

With just learning about this I am going to be doing a bunch of research on it. Its a little expensive at 51.00 a 100 ml bottle but if you only need to do it a few times a year, I think the price vs loose minerals would be comparable not to mention you would know they were able to absorb this vs a mineral mix.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!! How interesting... With the sheep low copper thing, my sheep survived calf manna that has copper and the manna pro minerals for about 6 months before I found out about the whole sheep shouldn't have copper thing..., so I'm very interested in learning about this too...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I had read that there are only a couple of breeds of sheep that are really copper sensitive. But one of those is one of the major breeds if I am not mistaken.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I just tried to look it up. If you find that article can you let me know. It would be an interesting read that is for sure. I have Rideau Arcott's, I was going to sell them, but they seem to love babysitting the goat kids and my mom begged me to keep them around.... I don't mind really, but they are the hay burners in the winter;( 
Also a lady came and got their wool for a movie in the making of a family that has had it in this world, so they went to go live in the boonies, and knit their own stuff...so, my mom was also excited about that..LOL... 

I'm going to ask my vet who is coming out to dehorn my oberhasli buck (as one of his horns is growing into his neck) tomorrow morning about minerals. I wonder if it would work better to get different kinds every so often, so their bodies would absorb the minerals from different sources... I'm going to talk to him about that...


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## Mr_IC (Apr 22, 2014)

Interesting about the availability of the minerals based on their source. It makes sense, though. The same is true when you're trying to re-mineralize your soil. The injections sound interesting, too. Would they have any effect helping to keep the Ca ratio where it needs to be. We're starting our herd with wethers, and I'm concerned about UC.

If the mix works out, the owner of the goat rescue in the area said she may be interested as well. She's got about 30 right now.


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well that was interesting. He suggested putting it in their feed instead of putting it out free choice, and switching from one mix to another....so they get different sources, and their body won't get used to it... He also told me if my sheep survived the high amount of copper when they were young, they should be fine with anything I give the goats...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ive never been one to like the idea of putting their mix in their feed. Kinda takes away the free choice thing but on most mineral mixes it does say how much an animal should be getting each day. So might something to try. The changing up of the mixes isnt a terrible idea either if you can find two with different methods...

Im going to start crunching the numbers and figure out the actual costs of the injection vs the mix. Matt will be out next week for the vet checks and I will get more info from him as well.

On a side note, his choice of de wormer is Cydectin Oral for Sheep with regards to goats.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the multimin 90 is by prescription only so you would need to get it from your vet.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Well finally got out blood min test results sent off (a month a go) and back. Even with our super high 153-180 ppm selenium premix we were low normal for selenium. But both our zinc and copper were both very low. Our current mix is 7000 ppm of zinc and 3000 ppm of copper. The selenium and copper in our mix is sulfate based and proves beyond a doubt that sulfate based minerals are pretty much worthless. The zinc is zinc oxide. SIDE NOTE: hard water can drastically effect mineral absorption. But we dont have very hard water here so thats not an influance. Havent done enough research to see if there are other forms of zinc but going to move to a carbonate based mix for the other two. That or switch over to mineral injection instead. Will have to do some hunting, talking with the boardtown feed to determine price influences.

On a side note, did our first usage of Cydectin Oral drench for sheep today and it went soooo smooth. 90% of the kids actually liked the taste of it and just ate it up. Didnt have to get the dosing syringe into the corner of their mouth. They just ate it  Oh forgot to mention we did a dozen random fecal tests at the same time and across the board pretty minimal parasites found and an even much smaller amount of cocci. Both well under acceptable levels and we hadnt wormed since just after kidding.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

At least you know what is going on.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well... when you get everything figured out, I may be interested in this mineral  Where in CA will it be milled? Elk Grove, Modesto,...? I pay $56 for a bag of minerals out here, with shipping.

I use MultiMin90, I used it about 3 weeks before kidding this year, haven't had such strong kids in a long time. I use 2cc on my does and I give 2cc of vitamin E-AD 300 along with it, so they can absorb the selenium in the multimin90.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Yep that sounds about perfect Bits. How do your animals react to the shot? I heard is can sting very badly. The biggest thing I think Ill not like with the min90 is you still need a mix for all the other trace vits and mins. Once I talk with the feed store Ill find out where they mix it.


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