# No due date , can someone help me a bit ?



## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Hello everyone ! I am new here and new into goat's world . I always have been around horses but made the jump unto meat goat . I got a boer doe , close to deliver (well i guess that's why i'm here ) and i do not have a due date since i never thought that my buckling could get her ( he was 5months old) wellll now she is big and i do not know if she's getting close and if i should watch a lot or not . My english is not perfect guys so please excuse me !! I checked the ligaments , they are softer but how soft should they be i have no idea since i don't have an other doe to compare . Her udder is larger, firm but not tight .

If you would like pictures let me know the angle and what you want to see so i can take good pictures .

Thanks for your help !


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately we can't tell you when she is due. They usually start building an udder about a month prior but even that is no guarantee sign.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Pictures could help give a estimate how far along she is


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi , i wasn’t asking for a due date tho i know that it’s impossible , only wanted some tips from experienced breeders if there is any ..about signs or what to look for , thanks anyway i will wait , see and learn i guess.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Honey21 , want angle of pictures would you like ?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

The back. Like you are standing behind the doe see the udder and vulva. Has she had any discharge


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

No discharge at all , she is down and not wanting to get up , as soon as she does i’ll post a pic thank you !


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)




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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Looks like 2-3 more weeks to me


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks SalteyLove for your estimate !


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Welcome to the forum! And welcome to The Waiting Game.lol


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Welcome to TGS!
I suggest reading the doe code of honor, then you'll know that they do everything they can to drive us crazy 

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/does-secret-code-of-honor-a-must-read-for-all-with-goats.102280/

Congrats on the impending births


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Welcome to the forum! And welcome to The Waiting Game.lol


Thanks to you Dwarf Dad ! Yeah i realllly enjoy the waiting game lol but it's my fault and there won't be an other « no date waiting » like this , buck & doe are in different pens now haha


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Welcome to TGS!
> I suggest reading the doe code of honor, then you'll know that they do everything they can to drive us crazy
> 
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/does-secret-code-of-honor-a-must-read-for-all-with-goats.102280/
> ...


Thank you GoofyGoat ! I will read that code , change what i don't like about it , print it and have the does read it


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

there is also a video on the doe's code...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, she is getting a bit closer, I agree 2 to 3 weeks, her udder is really filling.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Great ! Thanks everyone for taking time to give me your toughts i really appreciate it , was scared she could go in the next days because its still freaking cold and i do not want to wake up with dead frozen kid . I will set up the camera to keep an eye even if the code says it will delay delivery by a day lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Always keep an eye on her, the doe code of honor is really confusing sometimes.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Always keep an eye on her, the doe code of honor is really confusing sometimes.


I will !! Camera is set, with mares (not the maiden ones tho) i was testing the ph & calcium in the milk with pool ph strips when i was hitting 400ppm calcium and 6.8 ph or lower i new i had to stay up and had about 24h or less to wait would this work with goats ? Has anyone tried it ?


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi again ! Posting a little update about my doe that is getting closer but i am still hoping she will wait a week or 2 since we had a snow storm and it is still very cold outside  So no one answered my test strip question i guess no one has tried it on goats ? Here are a few pic is someone can tell me if i should start doing checkups at night .


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Interesting, I have never heard of the horse trick of testing the pH of the milk!

She is definitely much more sunken in the tail head and hip area but I'm sticking with my original guesstimate.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Boerz said:


> I will !! Camera is set, with mares (not the maiden ones tho) i was testing the ph & calcium in the milk with pool ph strips when i was hitting 400ppm calcium and 6.8 ph or lower i new i had to stay up and had about 24h or less to wait would this work with goats ? Has anyone tried it ?


I haen't read anything about the strips. I sure can't help with first hand knowledge.lol @Goat_Scout @Jessica84


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Interesting, I have never heard of the horse trick of testing the pH of the milk!
> 
> She is definitely much more sunken in the tail head and hip area but I'm sticking with my original guesstimate.


I still have a couple of those strips but the bottle has been open for quite a while and i'm not sure if they are still good ..i always got a brand new strip bottle for each foaling , i guess i will try just for fun (if she lets me!) if it works i'll get back to let you guys know and how to do it . Yeah she started to sunk maybe about 2 weeks ago and it stayed the same as of now , i am able to stick my fingers underneath her tail where the ligaments are (picture is maybe 1week & half ago) , i can still feel them but they arent hard . I tried to compare with my buck but his whole tail head area is as hard as rock lol


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> I haen't read anything about the strips. I sure can't help with first hand knowledge.lol @Goat_Scout @Jessica84


I'm just curious to know if anyone tried it , you only need like 3 drops of milk to test , quite easy only if the mare lets you touch her udder


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Goat breeders typically frown upon expressing any milk from a doe's udder prior to kidding as you remove the waxy plug that develops at the teat orifice and possibly open the doe up to infection risk - I have no idea if it's a valid concern!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

i don't know either if its a valid concern , never experienced any kind of infection with mares doing it but anything could be source of infection. if it works with goat it could be a reliable tool . Even more reliable is to have a due date ops2:


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

How r her ligaments?


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Honey21 said:


> How r her ligaments?


i can't compare , its my first doe & first kidding they are soft but i read that they should "disapear" i mean i understand they will still be there i just don't get how soft they will be when she is about to deliver , i know its not a good answer but i'm new to goats


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

not much help here, but I just have to say I LOVE full cape Boers!


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

My first pregnancy I had to learn how to feel for them since then it has helped me tremendously. If I don't know a due date I can at least tell when and if the are close

Since you've never felt them before the best thing to do is picture to pencils in your mind coming off the spine. Start at the very top and just run your fingers down until you feel 2 pencil like things coming off if she's closed still be soft but not so soft that you can't feel. 24 hours before she has the kids you won't be able to feel them at all that's what they mean by disappear.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I really hope this helps you might be able to go online and research it also and give you an idea where to feel. Once you feel it the first time you'll remember after that.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Honey21 said:


> I really hope this helps you might be able to go online and research it also and give you an idea where to feel. Once you feel it the first time you'll remember after that.


Thanks Honey21 , i feel them twice a day . Just to make sure i got it right : right now i feel them , they aint like pencil they are softer i can easily push them with my fingers but i feel them easily , so when she gets in the 24h i will not be able to feel them at all not even a little ? This is what i find confusing , will i still barely feel something ? Next time i will remember how it feels at the end for sure but now i just get a « feel » each day without knowing exactly what people mean by disappearing .


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

with some does they can disappear a few times, watch her personality, flank belly area, and udders, as well as ligaments, it will all change at kidding, this thred may help... 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/lettys-turn.196754/


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

spidy1 said:


> with some does they can disappear a few times, watch her personality, flank belly area, and udders, as well as ligaments, it will all change at kidding, this thred may help...
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/lettys-turn.196754/


Thanks Spidy1 i will have a look at the thread , if it wasnt of the weather i wouldnt worry so much ..10F tonight


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## LockeEstates (Nov 25, 2017)

Puff fooled me two weeks ago, we thought she was going into labor when there was a discharge. Vet said she was not even dilated yet. So we just kept checking on her every day. I was about to give up when the little doe arrived.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Boerz said:


> Thanks Honey21 , i feel them twice a day . Just to make sure i got it right : right now i feel them , they aint like pencil they are softer i can easily push them with my fingers but i feel them easily , so when she gets in the 24h i will not be able to feel them at all not even a little ? This is what i find confusing , will i still barely feel something ? Next time i will remember how it feels at the end for sure but now i just get a « feel » each day without knowing exactly what people mean by disappearing .


Nah you really cannot feel them anymore. They get so squishy And then they are just gone gone. Since you are checkin her ligs and know how they feel now... when it happens it will make MUCH more sense. There will be no doubt in your mind when it does happen all the way. I was afraid of the not knowin last year but when it did happen i was like ohhhh how nifty.... The next thought was when are we gettin bebeh kids lol!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

LockeEstates said:


> Puff fooled me two weeks ago, we thought she was going into labor when there was a discharge. Vet said she was not even dilated yet. So we just kept checking on her every day. I was about to give up when the little doe arrived.


This is exactly how i feel about it , the day i'll give up she will kid haha


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Nah you really cannot feel them anymore. They get so squishy And then they are just gone gone. Since you are checkin her ligs and know how they feel now... when it happens it will make MUCH more sense. There will be no doubt in your mind when it does happen all the way. I was afraid of the not knowin last year but when it did happen i was like ohhhh how nifty.... The next thought was when are we gettin bebeh kids lol!


Thanks Sfgwife !! this information you just provide me about the « how gone is gone » is exactly what i wanted to hear , i will sleep better knowing that as long as i feel them i still have a bit of time !! 

Have a good evening everyone , gonna post some cute pics when she kid !


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

when my doe looses her ligs, I can literally wrap my fingers all the way around her spine at her taihead and touch them together, most does get almost that loose, if not that loose


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

spidy1 said:


> when my doe looses her ligs, I can literally wrap my fingers all the way around her spine at her taihead and touch them together, most does get almost that loose, if not that loose


Ok that is loose ! I will keep on checking twice a day


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

M


Boerz said:


> i don't know either if its a valid concern , never experienced any kind of infection with mares doing it but anything could be source of infection. if it works with goat it could be a reliable tool . Even more reliable is to have a due date ops2:


MAy be because mare's teats are so far above the ground.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> M
> 
> MAy be because mare's teats are so far above the ground.


I forgot to mention that the horses i use to raise where miniatures ones ..lolll


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

this might help some... there is some good info on it, near the end it shows what they use to milk colostrum...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@Boerz - how does your doe's udder look now? Tell her she has to kid beginning Wednesday so that my original estimate is correct


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> @Boerz - how does your doe's udder look now? Tell her she has to kid beginning Wednesday so that my original estimate is correct


I really hope she kids by wednesday SalteyLove ! Going back to work the 23 and i hope i will be home in case she needs me , still quite cold at night too i will go get you some pics


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

There you go , as you can she she lost her mucus plug (still in the tail) 
Sorry for the quality of the pictures its pouring outside and its kinda dark a bit in the stall !


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

And she started playing the « dead goat » first time i saw her in this position i thought she died in the night and almost choke with my coffee hahaha mg:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh my gosh it's so mean when they do that! 

Doesn't look like today is the day to me. My original guess is applicable for the 17th to the 24th


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Oh my gosh it's so mean when they do that!
> 
> Doesn't look like today is the day to me. My original guess is applicable for the 17th to the 24th


Finger crossed i hope so !!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mg: Oh my, what a brat for doing that to you.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> mg: Oh my, what a brat for doing that to you.


I'm a 100% sure she notice the camera for playing the dead goat right in front of it Hahaha


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I think so too.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Beautiful doe! And what a mean stunt she pulled sleeping like that lol! We have a doe that lays like that late in pregnancy and definitely drives me crazy!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks HoosierShadow ! She is driving me crazy , i want the kids now and keep telling her but the only answer a get is bahhhh so if anyone can translate please ? Lol 

And an other thing i would like to ask you guys . I got this doe late last fall with very overgrown long hooves (underrun heels) i did some trial error 
I quickly realized that these hooves grow straight down and manage to fix some of it (front) i keep hitting the quick but its better , her hinds are still bad and one hind her pastern just went down i guess mostly because of her weight + bad weather & deep bedding+ hooves neglect for the last 2 years+ me trying to fix + softer ligaments ..the other isnt as bad. 

Will the ligaments tightens after she kid ? Whats your experience with this ? I haaate to see this and she is unconfortable on this leg . Will post pic if required . She gets free choice minerals , grain with added vit & minerals & good hay .


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Have you given any additional selenium like BoSe injection or the oral paste?


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Can’t get any injection stuff where i live , its a pain because you gotta ask the vet and the vet ask to see the animal $$$ but if i compare her to the buck that i got as a baby and that i trim often he has perfectly strong & straight feets so i am unsure about any mineral deficiency ?


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Down in the pasterns can be because of a selenium deficiency.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Down in the pasterns can be because of a selenium deficiency.


Ok Just want to make sure i do not want to overdose the selenium , i will check around to find some selenium supplements.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Right your doe could be exhibiting signs of selenium deficiency even if your buck is not, even though they have received the same care. (That's not to say your buck isn't deficient, only that they show deficiency signs differently and at different times!)

The grand majority of herds in the united states need additional selenium and copper supplementation above and beyond having loose minerals free choice. Replamin Plus oral paste is a lovely option if you only have a few goats and they are tame (it is given weekly), MultiMin90 injection is an Rx but great for larger herds, Copper Boluses can be easily ordered online and given several times per year, and Selenium/Vit E gel is not a prescription and can be ordered easily online and sometimes found at farm stores.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Thanks for all the infos SalteyLove , i’m in Quebec/Canada for the bolus they are non existant here in canada , impossible to get them , i need to order and go get in Ontario whatever meds/injections i need because you gotta call a vet for that in quebec (stupid law) you even gotta call a vet for a wormer (stupid law again) anyhow i always go in ontario i will have a look at the products you mentionned. 

But could the laxism in the ligaments could be caused by her late pregnancy ? She was ok couple days ago ? When i hold her hoof the pastern is really soft mostly the same than her tail head ligaments .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm late to this, so sorry for butting in. Does can really go down fast in selenium during late pregnancy and a selenium deficient kidding can be tragically sad. Were she mine, I'd try to find some selenium gel. If you can't, can you buy ground flax meal at the grocery store and mix it with her feed or minerals?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

But yes also the hormones that cause ligaments to relax for birth apply to all ligaments!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Ok i’ll go at the drug store to see if i can get selenium supp for human and dose her with it , other than that or flat beer i’ll make a trip in ontario and see what i can get , thanks everyone


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Ok this is what i give free choice to the goat (sorry its in french but you'll probably understand) + dairy feed that also has added selenium, minerals + vit (i don't have the chart for the cattle feed sorry) , is it ok or should i go on the hunt to find selenium ?


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am no expert, for sure, iron seems high to me. Fer is iron ,cuivre is copper.
Salt at 35% is too much. Goats will stop taking mineral when salt urge is satisfied.
@mariarose


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> I am no expert, for sure, iron seems high to me. Fer is iron ,cuivre is copper.
> Salt at 35% is too much. Goats will stop taking mineral when salt urge is satisfied.
> @mariarose


This mineral mix is meant for horses but is the one i found that has copper in it , about the iron honestly i have no idea! So all in all the get free choixe horse minerals and cattle grain the dairy kind . I guess i'll start looking for something that has less salt .Thanks Dwarf dad


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Sooo just went out , still wondering about the ligament thing but there you go , my finger are on the ligs (i still feel them a little), i don't press much and i can touch my fingers , is this a ligament gone situation ? I hate to be such a newby lol


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

It certainly looks like her ligaments are completely soft but it doesn't look like the kids have completely dropped. She would look very very hollow in front of her right hip as the kids descend to move towards the birth canal.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> It certainly looks like her ligaments are completely soft but it doesn't look like the kids have completely dropped. She would look very very hollow in front of her right hip as the kids descend to move towards the birth canal.


Ok i'll go get you a pic of her right side in front of her hip 
Its so hard to see she still has her winter coat , btw i cant barely feel the kid anymore , i can feel little movement and kid « parts » in the hollow you are talking about , normal ? Kid must start being tight in there .


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

she looks realy close!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Here SalteyLove , bit of a drop ?


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)




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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Boerz said:


> View attachment 153243


Lookin good. Wont be long now. When mine are really ready to start labor... they look like they have no kids in there even my gracie this year with quads. They drop that much. But your lady is gettin closeer! Now start watchin for goo. Long beautiful strings of goo


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Boerz said:


> This mineral mix is meant for horses but is the one i found that has copper in it , about the iron honestly i have no idea! So all in all the get free choixe horse minerals and cattle grain the dairy kind . I guess i'll start looking for something that has less salt .Thanks Dwarf dad


You're welcome. I tagged mariarose in that post, hoping she would chime in. She is the best at minerals and their antagonists. I am learning slowly and hopefully passing good information to others.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Lookin good. Wont be long now. When mine are really ready to start labor... they look like they have no kids in there even my gracie this year with quads. They drop that much. But your lady is gettin closeer! Now start watchin for goo. Long beautiful strings of goo


Thanks Sfgwife , i'll keep an eye on goo & how her belly drops , with mares when the belly wasnt round anymore and was forming a V from behind they were oficially « dropped »


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> You're welcome. I tagged mariarose in that post, hoping she would chime in. She is the best at minerals and their antagonists. I am learning slowly and hopefully passing good information to others.


They are so differents than horses , i do not want to make mistakes , i read and read but when i ask here around my place no one has an idea of what is a bolus or mineral deficiency .. people feed hay and water thats it . So i try to learn as much as i can too


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think you are doing great. If you got your stock from people breeding in your local area, then you have a head start with stock that came from stock that had survived the local mineral offerings.

A big difference between horses and goats is the digestive system. Monogastric vs ruminant. While there is some crossover (they are both mammals!) your goats will have more in common with other ruminants. Cattle, Bison, Deer, Sheep... So if you have any cattle industry in your area at all, then I'd seek out products for them and then fine tune. We can help with the fine tuning, once we know what you have.

There is nothing wrong, for instance, with buying a sheep mineral, and then adding copper boluses as needed. If that is what you can find.

The salt in your mineral is higher than I like, but not as high as in some popular goat minerals I've seen here (Purina Goat Minerals, I'm calling you out!) So if that is what you have on hand, it is a good start. It is certainly better than nothing.

Your girl does need selenium. Can you get some ground flax seed, or flax meal (I don't know what it would be called in your grocery stores) and add some to her food? A selenium deficient kid can be a heart breaking thing.

One thing I do that shocks a lot of people is every Summer, for 1 month, I take away all mineral supplementation, and I watch closely. Who loses condition, but more importantly, HOW FAST? The ones who go downhill immediately are generally earmarked to be put back into condition and then moved on. The ones who keep condition are generally the ones who get the nookie that Autumn.

This isn't the only culling evaluation, but it is one of my most important. And I would offer that in places that can't get minerals easily, it would become even more important.

Good luck with the impending birth.

And I do think you are doing awesome.


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I think you are doing great. If you got your stock from people breeding in your local area, then you have a head start with stock that came from stock that had survived the local mineral offerings.
> 
> A big difference between horses and goats is the digestive system. Monogastric vs ruminant. While there is some crossover (they are both mammals!) your goats will have more in common with other ruminants. Cattle, Bison, Deer, Sheep... So if you have any cattle industry in your area at all, then I'd seek out products for them and then fine tune. We can help with the fine tuning, once we know what you have.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much Mariarose ! That is all good informations ! Yes i can easily get flaxseeds at the grocery store , grind & feed it i will go get some . The idea to stress test the goats in the summer for the minerals is a very good idea too , i do not want any hard keeper here as i own goats for fun & eventually meat so i do not mind culling . For the fine tuning i will for sure come back here to ask if i miss something , thanks again it is really appreciated !!


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Triplets this morning ! 2 doeling and a painted buckling !! All seems fine & healthy thabks everyone for infos


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Congratulations! I like your belted doelings.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

They are beautiful! Congrats on the birth of those nice looking triplet kids. (thumbup)


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

OOOOO! I love the dapple!!!
Trade? boy for boy? LOL


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Oh how cute! They are gorgeous babiesohlala:Congrats!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Cute kids congratulations


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

spidy1 said:


> OOOOO! I love the dapple!!!
> Trade? boy for boy? LOL


Hahaha no trade sorry lol , i will check how he grows and maybe keep that little guy ! He has huge feets and seems to have a perfect conformation ! I just started my herd i guess that the reasonnable thing to do is to keep the best home


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## daisysmaid (Jun 21, 2018)

Wow! They are gorgeous!! Congrats


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

He looks like a white goat with a brown and white sweater on !


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

In the U.K. a sweater is the same thing as a jumper. Would Jumper be a good name for a goat?


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> In the U.K. a sweater is the same thing as a jumper. Would Jumper be a good name for a goat?


Hopefully not a prophetic name.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, I love to see mine jump! Strong, healthy, filled with the joy of movement.

The dressage movement, the Capriole, is named after the goat. Of course, much more controlled for the horse!
Capriole


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## Boerz (Apr 3, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Hopefully not a prophetic name.


With Jumper as a name i would be scared about my fences hahaha


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ahh... Didn't think about that aspect.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very nice kids.


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