# Crazy billy



## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Help! I have a crazy billy goat. I nearly didn’t buy him because of his poor condition, he was kept outside 24/7 in a 15’x15’ chain link pen and no shelter from the elements for probably 2 years. Anyway, I chose to rescue him. So I have spent many months getting him healthy. After a lot of TLC, he’s now in good condition, low worm load, coat is good shape, has a copper bolus, etc. He actually is a beautiful brown goat underneath his nearly bleached white coat when I got him . He has his own barn, and 1/2 acre good hay, minerals and forage. But we have two problems, his hooves and he is CRAZY and mean.

At first I thought rut was making him crazy, but my girls are bred, and he’s still crazy. We tried putting a wether with him and he nearly killed him. He has taken down my 6’ husband and son. If we put grain in front of him, we can clip a lead on him. But any handling beyond that is like trying to lead a bull. It’s gotten where I will not go into his pasture unless I clip him and tie the lead to the fence.

I spent months giving him treats, and he would let me pet him (through the fence) and then for no reason out of the blue, he will ram the fence. He’s nearly broken my hand doing that. Is it possible to tame him?

Second, his hooves are a chronic problem. He has dry ground, but he gets the hoof scald on the outside of his hooves. I trim the hooves, and cut out the pockets monthly and koppertox them, but it keeps coming back. So this week I am scrubbing with iodine, and applying koppertox daily for a week. The skin under the part I cut away has hardened and dried, but how do I know it has healed? TIA for your help! Also, I’m waiting for some antibiotics to come in, I will start him on that per vet’s advice.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

You can try using a squirt bottle to break him of this but at this point you might not be able to change his ways. If he was never socialized with other goats he may not be able to read body language and wont know how to act when around another.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> You can try using a squirt bottle to break him of this but at this point you might not be able to change his ways. If he was never socialized with other goats he may not be able to read body language and wont know how to act when around another.


Yeah, we tried as did the previous owners. He is definitely not socialized. It's so sad. He seems to like my petting/scratching him but he then he flips like a switch.

Today, he lifted his gate off the hinges and charged me. That was scary. He's only 40 lbs but still...


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

He might need to go to freezer camp at that point or you'll have to figure out a way to coexist.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

@Damfino might have some advice for you. She's a master goat handler.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> He might need to go to freezer camp at that point or you'll have to figure out a way to coexist.


We will figure out a way to co-exist. What we are doing works to a point, I'd just like to be his friend, lol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

He may need a buddy that is much bigger than he is to knock him down a peg or two. Bu you need to decide if he just needs retraining or is he mean. By mean .. will he hurt you if he got a chance. If he is setting out to hurt you then he will hurt you or a visitor or a child. You don't want to beeed that into your herd nor risk someone being hurt. He maybe small but can do some damage. 
Goat-link.com has a page on how to deal with an aggressive buck. Read through and see where you think this little man fits. If you don't want to cull him, then he will need a safe place for all and a buddy who can handle himself.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Breezy said:


> We will figure out a way to co-exist. What we are doing works to a point, I'd just like to be his friend, lol


Have you paid attention to when his switch is flipped.... what exactly were you doing at the time to him? How were you doing it? Is it the same every time? Or is it just random?


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> He may need a buddy that is much bigger than he is to knock him down a peg or two. Bu you need to decide if he just needs retraining or is he mean. By mean .. will he hurt you if he got a chance. If he is setting out to hurt you then he will hurt you or a visitor or a child. You don't want to beeed that into your herd nor risk someone being hurt. He maybe small but can do some damage.
> Goat-link.com has a page on how to deal with an aggressive buck. Read through and see where you think this little man fits. If you don't want to cull him, then he will need a safe place for all and a buddy who can handle himself.


Thanks for the link and tips, I'll check that out. Can this be genetic ? I figured he was this way because of neglect. 
I think he will hurt anyone given the opportunity. He even scares our 100+ lb Pyrs. But he has his own pasture, and four gates/fences between him and any visitors to our property, which is just one woman who feeds our goats periodically. We have acres between him and neighbors. You gave me an idea of putting up a beware of goat sign, though.

We got a free wether (the owner told us he was a Nubian) to put with him. Well, I think he is a Nubian/Pygmy mix because he is smaller than my NDs, lol. So, we will have to keep looking. I've thought about a llama too.

He is a real sweetheart with the does. He tries to mate, but if rebuffed, he just hangs out. No aggression.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Sfgwife said:


> Have you paid attention to when his switch is flipped.... what exactly were you doing at the time to him? How were you doing it? Is it the same every time? Or is it just random?


Good question! I am usually just scratching around his chin, things my other goat's love. Or giving him goat treats. He sticks his nose through the fence like he wants attention, and let's me scratch and pet for a while then "wham"!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Breezy said:


> Good question! I am usually just scratching around his chin, things my other goat's love. Or giving him goat treats. He sticks his nose through the fence like he wants attention, and let's me scratch and pet for a while then "wham"!


Maybe someone swatted him on the nose a lot? @Damfino is a great one to try to help you. Me... put his butt in the freezer from your descriptions. I am just not going to be anymore patient than you have been and him suddenly try to hurt anyone that comes in. :/. But i just thought maybe it is a certain movement or touch that flips his switch and you just know do not do this or this to him or else. You have been amazingly good to him it sounds like! So no matter what your decision... you did great by him and ever how long he has been in your care he has known love and compassion and been treated extremely well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Breezy said:


> Can this be genetic ? I figured he was this way because of neglect.


it could be neglect, but also could be genetic. If he can be turned around and gentled then I would not think genetic. To me after all the time and care you gave him and all I would think he would have settled up some. He sounds like he has an angry wire loose.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> it could be neglect, but also could be genetic. If he can be turned around and gentled then I would not think genetic. To me after all the time and care you gave him and all I would think he would have settled up some. He sounds like he has an angry wire loose.


Well, I'll keep trying. It's not urgent that he's my bud as long as I can restrain him to do care and as long as he's healthy and content. He closes his eyes and leans into my scratches like he loves it, like my girls do, and then gets the wide-eyed panicky look. Kind of like the way a cat does that acts like they enjoy being petted then suddenly grab you. I have even wondered if he is trying to play. Face to face though, it is a constant rearing and charging.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Breezy said:


> Well, I'll keep trying. It's not urgent that he's my bud as long as I can restrain him to do care and as long as he's healthy and content. He closes his eyes and leans into my scratches like he loves it, like my girls do, and then gets the wide-eyed panicky look. Kind of like the way a cat does that acts like they enjoy being petted then suddenly grab you. I have even wondered if he is trying to play. Face to face though, it is a constant rearing and charging.


I wanted to add, in the stanchion, he is a dream. He is by far the easiest goat I've ever trimmed hooves or given a shot. He does just fine being brushed, as long as he has grain.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Well, I'd hardly call myself a master goat handler by any stretch, and I have never had one that acted quite like yours. I really think Goatzrule is onto something when she says he's not socialized and doesn't know how to behave around other goats (or people!). I had one mean wether and I could never completely train the ornery streak out of him and I think his problems when straight back to the fact that he was an "only goat" for many years. Goats really need other goat buddies to play and fight with during their formative years so they learn the meaning of body language and boundaries. When they don't learn these things as youngsters, trying to instill them at an older age may not be possible. 

I don't think meanness is usually genetic. It sounds to me like his problems stem from isolation and neglect, but that doesn't mean he's fixable. If you can find a large wether that is big and tough enough to put him in his place, you might find that your buck adjusts his entire outlook on life. He may be reluctant to attack people if he has a dominant buddy that stands first in line for human attention. The danger there is that the goats could harm each other. Does your buck have horns? If not, putting him with a big, horned goat may make him back down without a fight (if he has enough brains). If he's not smart, he may just get himself hurt. 

You can also try clicker training and see if that gets you anywhere. Positive reinforcement may be the key to changing his attitude. I don't think I would recommend punishment in this case. I normally suggest spray bottle treatment or using a riding whip to enforce boundaries, but with an animal that has such a deep distrust of people these things may very well make him even worse. But clicker training may win him over by forcing him to use his brain instead of running on pure instinct. I'd encourage you to read up on clicker training and start teaching him some basic manners. With clicker training, you would never give him a treat unless he did what you wanted first (like stepping back from the gate or lowering his hackles). 

Not sure what else to tell you except "good luck!" Rehabilitating a neglected animal is never easy and sometimes it's simply not possible. But if you like him and you can manage him without getting hurt, more power to you.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Good luck with him. I’m on the freezer camp side, but I won’t tolerate mean/aggressive animals. Too much risk and there are a lot of nice bucks out there. Sorry I don’t have anything helpful to add. Just be careful, they can do a lot of damage.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Only forty pounds?? Which breed of goat is he? Seems light for any breed at 2+ year old! Is he really breeding quality or no? I know you mentioned you sort of rescued him from the poor conditions, not sure if you would consider wethering him. 

I think a 150 lb horned wether may be a good option but thats a lot to take on just to solve this problem.


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## Angel A (Apr 4, 2020)

Stock Master Stock Prod 11"
Made in the USA

My husband bought me one of these. He's gone to work a lot and we have a 3 yr old that is sometimes with me when I need to go in the pasture to feed etc. 
A zap from this and he ought to behave. All I have to do is press the button and hold it down and they typically stop in their tracks. I try to get them along their chest or behind their front leg where it's fleshy. It may be just the attitude adjustment he needs. They can hear the buzz and they know what it is. They tend to get pushy at feeding time, but now that the sunshine is out and it's warmer they are more mellow.
I believe we paid about $32 for ours plus shipping. 
A lot of times I don't even take it with me when I go out, but when they start acting up I'll carry it with me for a while.

Good Luck and be careful! I've been hurt when they get pushy. It's not fun.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

Keeping a dangerous animal is not something I would ever do. A broken leg sounds like it could be in your future. Why? Goat meat is very good. There are too many nice animals out there. My husband had to butcher a buck we had several years back that was aggressive and makes you unhappy that you have to do that but sometimes just necessary. My two bucks are so far pretty easy to deal with - the only way I want them.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Being a pro lifer, the freezer could be a bit drastic. But, pro life means the human too. 
If you truly believe you can help this goat and you can co-exist safely go for it. But never put your life or those around you at risk. It just isnt worth the agony.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Quit scratching him on the face and praising pushing the fence. 
Reach over to the back of his neck, shoulder, or other area that isn't being bad. 
Him: I want through this fence 
You: okay good good boy 
Him: dang it the fence won't move 
You: eek omg he's mean


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> Only forty pounds?? Which breed of goat is he? Seems light for any breed at 2+ year old! Is he really breeding quality or no? I know you mentioned you sort of rescued him from the poor conditions, not sure if you would consider wethering him.
> 
> I think a 150 lb horned wether may be a good option but thats a lot to take on just to solve this problem.


That was a typo, sorry, he's around 60 lbs, and he's a ND. On the small side. He has some nice physical traits, blue eyes and moon spots. He was not originally from the farm I got him from, and comes from some great milking bloodlines.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm assuming he's serviced the gals already? If so, I like Saltys thought about wethering him. This can calm a buck down. Also putting the larger wether with him to play with. Burn some energy. With your statement that he is sweet to the does and a good boy on the stand and so forth..he very well may just need retraining. Take to heart all the tips given by those who have trained goats like Damfino and Goathiker. Both raise pack goats so really need them to be safe.
With that and your diligence and care. He just might very well calm down and live a happy life with all...safely.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Tanya said:


> Being a pro lifer, the freezer could be a bit drastic. But, pro life means the human too.
> If you truly believe you can help this goat and you can co-exist safely go for it. But never put your life or those around you at risk. It just isnt worth the agony.


Thank you, and everyone else for your input. You all have given me a lot to think about. My husband and I will have to talk about what to do.

I am the only one who goes around him, so there's no hurry.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Have you considered that he was neglected because of this attitude? Not that it excuses being neglected but it might mean that this could be genetic. 
Behavior is a lot bit genetic, you see it the most in dogs. Pit bulls for example, you see a lot of "Its all how you raise them" yes raising has a big factor but if a dog was trained to fight then you cant always train them out of it. The same can go with goats, if the breeder doesn't care about handling the animal then there's no reason to cull bad behavior.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> Have you considered that he was neglected because of this attitude? Not that it excuses being neglected but it might mean that this could be genetic.
> Behavior is a lot bit genetic, you see it the most in dogs. Pit bulls for example, you see a lot of "Its all how you raise them" yes raising has a big factor but if a dog was trained to fight then you cant always train them out of it. The same can go with goats, if the breeder doesn't care about handling the animal then there's no reason to cull bad behavior.


I would think that except she had a newly acquired buckling housed in the same conditions. I cannot say for sure they were housed like that 24/7, but by the looks of him and the pen, my husband and I think he did.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Quit scratching him on the face and praising pushing the fence.
> Reach over to the back of his neck, shoulder, or other area that isn't being bad.


I totally agree with this! I forgot to mention it, but I don't recommend petting/scratching bucks on the front of the face or top of the head in general. They almost reflexively push back on any touch to those areas and it's very easy to end up accidentally "training" them to butt. I prefer to scratch bucks somewhere behind the head or under the chin.

If you want to try clicker training it's very easy to start. You can begin with him in the stanchion where he is already controlled. Start by clicking your tongue and then immediately giving a treat. He'll quickly associate the click with the treat. Once he's got those two things connected, you can start requiring certain behaviors before you click and treat. For example, he's straining toward you and flapping his tongue at you because he wants that treat. You don't ever want him straining toward you at the sight of food. So you wait patiently until he has a frustrated moment where he gives up straining and steps back a bit. Immediately click and treat. Usually it only takes 10-15 minutes and you'll already start to see improvement. It will take him less and less time to stop straining as he realizes that he only gets a treat when he's relaxed.

Once they make that first behavior-click-treat association, you can expand the number of things you expect him to do before getting a treat, and you can lengthen the time you require him to wait patiently. You can also expand the same training to other places. I did a bit of clicker training with one of my goats a couple of years ago because he is skittish and I wanted to teach him some more advanced things. I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly he learned! I got a lot of inspiration from this blog: 
https://theclickercenterblog.com/2017/10/25/goat-diaries-arrival-day/ 
There are some good videos and excellent descriptions of how to clicker train goats.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Damfino said:


> I totally agree with this! I forgot to mention it, but I don't recommend petting/scratching bucks on the front of the face or top of the head in general. They almost reflexively push back on any touch to those areas and it's very easy to end up accidentally "training" them to butt. I prefer to scratch bucks somewhere behind the head or under the chin.
> 
> If you want to try clicker training it's very easy to start. You can begin with him in the stanchion where he is already controlled. Start by clicking your tongue and then immediately giving a treat. He'll quickly associate the click with the treat. Once he's got those two things connected, you can start requiring certain behaviors before you click and treat. For example, he's straining toward you and flapping his tongue at you because he wants that treat. You don't ever want him straining toward you at the sight of food. So you wait patiently until he has a frustrated moment where he gives up straining and steps back a bit. Immediately click and treat. Usually it only takes 10-15 minutes and you'll already start to see improvement. It will take him less and less time to stop straining as he realizes that he only gets a treat when he's relaxed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this information! I do scratch him on his head some. I will stop that! And I was giving treats when he stuck his nose through. I can see I have been reinforcing bad behaviors. My husband pushed him with a hoe when he charged him and I think that didn't help either.

I will try the clicker training too. I need to dedicate more time to him and the wether I have is bigger now, horned and 10x faster than the buck so maybe I will try putting them together.

Also, when I'm gardening, he walks out and hangs out next to me (temp electric netting there) and he walks down parallel to where I work. Sometimes he rears up and jumps around.

Is that playing? He wants to be wherever I am


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Breezy said:


> Thank you for this information! I do scratch him on his head some. I will stop that! And I was giving treats when he stuck his nose through. I can see I have been reinforcing bad behaviors. My husband pushed him with a hoe when he charged him and I think that didn't help either.
> 
> I will try the clicker training too. I need to dedicate more time to him and the wether I have is bigger now, horned and 10x faster than the buck so maybe I will try putting them together.
> 
> ...


I mean, I hate the thought of putting a goat down when maybe he's trying to play, in a twisted way.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Rearing could be a sign of dominance and I would not allow him to do that towards you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All have very good advice.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Breezy said:


> Is that playing?


IF it is playing, then it is play that can not be allowed. If it is challenging, then it is challenging that can not be allowed.

The people here who know more than I about training have good answers for you. I don't know much about training at all. But bucks require you to figure out what is rewarding bad behaviour, what is a challenge, what is a surrender (so you don't continue your correction after he surrenders!), what behaviour of yours is telling him to escalate, etc. Bucks require a LOT of psychology, as force just won't solve it.

Consider a hot wire on the interior of the fence so he learns to never push against, regardless of your presence?

I'm sorry for him. If he is happy and gentle with the does, then it seems to me that an emphasis on socializing with does isn't the problem. It sounds to me like he doesn't know how to socialize with you and your humans/guardian dog. An animal that has his background is beyond my ability to help, except again, tell you to listen to the trainers on here, and be open to really close observation about what he's trying to tell you about what you are doing.

Best of luck to you! And my best wishes for him, too.

Best of luck.


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## Goats R Us (Oct 5, 2017)

Is he a bottle fed billy? I raised a billy and as he got older, he would rear up at me in the paddock and I dared not turn my back on him or I'd get a horn in the back of my leg and that would hurt. He wasn't aggressive towards me, but just wanted to play. So whenever I was in the paddock with him and would carry a length of poly pipe with me. All I had to do was wave it at him and it kept him away. He was an excellent breeder and got on very well with his girls. I found out later from other goat breeders that bottle fed billies like to dominate their human mothers as they get older and, considering a full grown billy can reach 120+ kgs, that's a lot of weight behind them. You need to be in charge otherwise your boy might have to end up dinner. I am a Boer Goat breeder in Australia. I now have two Billies (not bottle fed) and are both as gentle as lambs. Love a good scratch on their faces.


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## Lisa Storksen (May 29, 2019)

Breezy said:


> Yeah, we tried as did the previous owners. He is definitely not socialized. It's so sad. He seems to like my petting/scratching him but he then he flips like a switch.
> 
> Today, he lifted his gate off the hinges and charged me. That was scary. He's only 40 lbs but still...


I was giggling as I read this, kinda, only because it sounds like I wrote it about my Boer buck. ( how you tie him to the fence and everything) I love him so I deal with his issues but he is 200+ lbs with HUGE horns. I know he means well but I am only 5'2". When read that he was only 40 lbs, I felt relief, because there is hope. He is doing what a buck does, making you part of his herd, dominating you, and showing his heard power. There is a takedown method that some swear by. Being his 40 lbs it is doable. I have two Nigerian bucks who are sweet and gentle and have not had to do this with them, possibly due to the fact that they are in with a large Boer buck has put them in their place. I am not sure of the tack down method, but I am sure there are smart people here who can give instruction. It is worth a try if you want to keep him, sounds like he is not safe.


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## rockycreek (Oct 30, 2014)

Breezy said:


> Help! I have a crazy billy goat. I nearly didn't buy him because of his poor condition, he was kept outside 24/7 in a 15'x15' chain link pen and no shelter from the elements for probably 2 years. Anyway, I chose to rescue him. So I have spent many months getting him healthy. After a lot of TLC, he's now in good condition, low worm load, coat is good shape, has a copper bolus, etc. He actually is a beautiful brown goat underneath his nearly bleached white coat when I got him . He has his own barn, and 1/2 acre good hay, minerals and forage. But we have two problems, his hooves and he is CRAZY and mean.
> 
> At first I thought rut was making him crazy, but my girls are bred, and he's still crazy. We tried putting a wether with him and he nearly killed him. He has taken down my 6' husband and son. If we put grain in front of him, we can clip a lead on him. But any handling beyond that is like trying to lead a bull. It's gotten where I will not go into his pasture unless I clip him and tie the lead to the fence.
> 
> ...


Just a thought about genetics...
Is his temperament environmental, (caused by his previous owner's treatment) or
Was his treatment BECAUSE of his temperament? He was born mean!
Nature or Nurture?
Do you want this in your kid crop?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I doubt it's in his nature to be mean, especially since it's only directed toward people and he's fine with the other goats. I'm also not convinced that "meanness" is always passed on genetically. I had a very mean herd queen a few years ago. She was sweet as pie to people but horrible to the other goats. And since she was also the fastest goat in the herd, no one could get away from her. If Lilly got the urge, she'd go after a goat that was minding its own business 30 feet away from her. She was constantly running down my LGD, trampling her, and pulling tufts of hair out of the poor dog. Seriously, the DOG could not outrun this goat! She purposely drove other goats into the electric fence too. However, her descendants have all been very mellow. Lilly's daughter Petunia was my benevolent herd queen for several years until she passed away in January. Lilly's son Finn is my herd king and despite being twice the size of everyone else and having large horns, he rarely lashes out unless the other goats are asking for it. With one borderline exception, Lilly's granddaughters have all been really sweet to other goats without being pushovers. Although I'm sure meanness can be genetic, it shouldn't be assumed. We ended up sending Lilly to freezer camp in part because of her persistent meanness, but I don't regret having tons of her descendants in our herd.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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## OliverDagoatius (Jul 19, 2016)

Breezy said:


> Help! I have a crazy billy goat. I nearly didn't buy him because of his poor condition, he was kept outside 24/7 in a 15'x15' chain link pen and no shelter from the elements for probably 2 years. Anyway, I chose to rescue him. So I have spent many months getting him healthy. After a lot of TLC, he's now in good condition, low worm load, coat is good shape, has a copper bolus, etc. He actually is a beautiful brown goat underneath his nearly bleached white coat when I got him . He has his own barn, and 1/2 acre good hay, minerals and forage. But we have two problems, his hooves and he is CRAZY and mean.
> 
> At first I thought rut was making him crazy, but my girls are bred, and he's still crazy. We tried putting a wether with him and he nearly killed him. He has taken down my 6' husband and son. If we put grain in front of him, we can clip a lead on him. But any handling beyond that is like trying to lead a bull. It's gotten where I will not go into his pasture unless I clip him and tie the lead to the fence.
> 
> ...


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## OliverDagoatius (Jul 19, 2016)

Breezy said:


> Help! I have a crazy billy goat. I nearly didn't buy him because of his poor condition, he was kept outside 24/7 in a 15'x15' chain link pen and no shelter from the elements for probably 2 years. Anyway, I chose to rescue him. So I have spent many months getting him healthy. After a lot of TLC, he's now in good condition, low worm load, coat is good shape, has a copper bolus, etc. He actually is a beautiful brown goat underneath his nearly bleached white coat when I got him . He has his own barn, and 1/2 acre good hay, minerals and forage. But we have two problems, his hooves and he is CRAZY and mean.
> 
> At first I thought rut was making him crazy, but my girls are bred, and he's still crazy. We tried putting a wether with him and he nearly killed him. He has taken down my 6' husband and son. If we put grain in front of him, we can clip a lead on him. But any handling beyond that is like trying to lead a bull. It's gotten where I will not go into his pasture unless I clip him and tie the lead to the fence.
> 
> ...





Breezy said:


> Help! I have a crazy billy goat. I nearly didn't buy him because of his poor condition, he was kept outside 24/7 in a 15'x15' chain link pen and no shelter from the elements for probably 2 years. Anyway, I chose to rescue him. So I have spent many months getting him healthy. After a lot of TLC, he's now in good condition, low worm load, coat is good shape, has a copper bolus, etc. He actually is a beautiful brown goat underneath his nearly bleached white coat when I got him . He has his own barn, and 1/2 acre good hay, minerals and forage. But we have two problems, his hooves and he is CRAZY and mean.
> 
> At first I thought rut was making him crazy, but my girls are bred, and he's still crazy. We tried putting a wether with him and he nearly killed him. He has taken down my 6' husband and son. If we put grain in front of him, we can clip a lead on him. But any handling beyond that is like trying to lead a bull. It's gotten where I will not go into his pasture unless I clip him and tie the lead to the fence.
> 
> ...


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## OliverDagoatius (Jul 19, 2016)

Breezy said:


> That was a typo, sorry, he's around 60 lbs, and he's a ND. On the small side. He has some nice physical traits, blue eyes and moon spots. He was not originally from the farm I got him from, and comes from some great milking bloodlines.


Breezy, 
I have a 75lb lil mess myself. He has never been neglected or abused. He's just spoiled rotten. He's sweet to me, however, when anyone else comes around he stands up and goes after them. He's weathered. I used a spray bottle when he was little to get him to stop any bad behavior he had. (He was raised in the house the first 6 months). Once he was put outside it went to a spray gun...it's an oozie lol. Shoots 60 shots of water per second. Doesn't hurt him, but it DEFINITELY stopped him from being so hateful to others. I don't have to use anything anymore. All I have to do is make a pssst sound n he immediately stops whatever he was doing and ducks his head. He's my boy, I can't imagine life without him. I just wanted others to be able to enjoy him and he them. It really does work. He has a GIGANTIC personality. It sounds to me like your lil guy might also...once he learns its YOU that is the herd master. Good luck and keep us posted. I'd love to see how it all turns out.


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## Breezy (Jan 17, 2020)

Damfino said:


> I totally agree with this! I forgot to mention it, but I don't recommend petting/scratching bucks on the front of the face or top of the head in general. They almost reflexively push back on any touch to those areas and it's very easy to end up accidentally "training" them to butt. I prefer to scratch bucks somewhere behind the head or under the chin.
> 
> If you want to try clicker training it's very easy to start. You can begin with him in the stanchion where he is already controlled. Start by clicking your tongue and then immediately giving a treat. He'll quickly associate the click with the treat. Once he's got those two things connected, you can start requiring certain behaviors before you click and treat. For example, he's straining toward you and flapping his tongue at you because he wants that treat. You don't ever want him straining toward you at the sight of food. So you wait patiently until he has a frustrated moment where he gives up straining and steps back a bit. Immediately click and treat. Usually it only takes 10-15 minutes and you'll already start to see improvement. It will take him less and less time to stop straining as he realizes that he only gets a treat when he's relaxed.
> 
> ...


I just want to follow up and thank you all for your replies! I weighed him today and he is 83 pounds, so he has put on quite a bit of weight since we got him. His hooves look so much better too. I ended up going with an antibiotic and koppertox for 5 days and everything is growing out nicely.

As for the attitude, it has gotten SO much better,thanks to the advice here. Here is what I did (based on suggestions):

1. No more petting when he is butting the gate. I wait until he is done, then click and pet, and click and give him a treat. The gate butting has nearly stopped.

2. When I am in there with him, I am being very firm. I hold him on a leash and when he stops raring, pushing and pulling, I click and give him a treat or scratch. He has become much more cooperative.

3. No more scratches on the head, only chin, he now lays his head sideways to be scratched and closes his eyes.

4. No more fear. I have decided he was feeding off my fear of him. I go in there like a boss and he gets nothing from me until he behaves. I do not let him pull his feet away when I'm trimming, I hold on tight.

I feel like he is learning, he's a smart boy. And much calmer. He's going to be ok


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

That's fantastic! It's amazing how well animals can cooperate when they know what is expected of them and that good behavior = good rewards. Nice work!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:goodjob:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Breezy said:


> I just want to follow up and thank you all for your replies!


And I want to thank YOU for your hard work, and for listening, and most of all for the update. Well done.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

You’ve given him a life he wouldn’t have had and my hat is off to you! I hope he continues to move forward for you and he keeps getting healthier. Good luck with him and his future breeding in your herd


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

Breezy said:


> Thanks for the link and tips, I'll check that out. Can this be genetic ? I figured he was this way because of neglect.
> I think he will hurt anyone given the opportunity. He even scares our 100+ lb Pyrs. But he has his own pasture, and four gates/fences between him and any visitors to our property, which is just one woman who feeds our goats periodically. We have acres between him and neighbors. You gave me an idea of putting up a beware of goat sign, though.
> 
> We got a free wether (the owner told us he was a Nubian) to put with him. Well, I think he is a Nubian/Pygmy mix because he is smaller than my NDs, lol. So, we will have to keep looking. I've thought about a llama too.
> ...


A Llama is a good idea. Maybe a small donkey. We have 4 mini donkeys with our goats and we also have Alpaca. Our goats are calm do the Alpaca are fine with them but would not be if they were aggressive, they would not be. Alpaca are too gentle and small. Llama, however, are much larger and can gold their own.


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