# what is a wether style doe?



## hscottom87

When people advertise their does as wether style, what does that mean?


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## Tenacross

Hopefully it means they would be good does to use to produce market wethers. What it might mean is they are low quality and they are trying to trick you into thinking they are worth more than they are. 
Craigslist ads seem to be fair game on this forum. If it's a CL ad, post the link. If it's a reputable Boer breeder that specializes in market wethers, then call them and ask what they mean.


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## goatgirlzCA

What I have seen is a "wether doe" is built more like a wether - not as feminine as a lot of boer does. Kids here show them as market goats and some do very well. The nifty thing about buying one is that you can choose to keep it and not slaughter it, and later breed it. I know a breeder who has a lot of wether does, and breeds them to bucks known for throwing good wethers, and the combination makes some outstanding wethers.


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## Dani-1995

They are more meat oriented does. They aren't quite as big framed or leggy as show does and are meatier than what may be called commercial. They are basically a wether but with doe parts. I have a wether style doe... she has alot of the older look. Shorter, more to the ground, tubular and not so big. They have to have huge tops too and a really nice wether looking leg shape. Really, they should put on muscle before fat.


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## GTAllen

http://kellymeatgoats.com/does.html

These have heavy Ibex influence, but you get the idea.


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## Dani-1995

Yep, they add the ibex in for tighter hides. Thats another thing most big time wether breeders will breed for.


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## hscottom87

Do they do well in the show ring or should be reserved for breeding for wethers?


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## Dani-1995

They do good in commercial shows but I wouldn't put them in with ABGA does. Do you have a picture of the doe in question?


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## hscottom87

Dani I'm wondering if my daughter's doeling came from one of the breeder's wether style does. I don't have a picture of her but I'll get some pics of my daughters doe for you to critique.


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## hscottom87

Lol I know I sound obsessive when it comes to this doe I'm just trying to absorb as much knowledge as possible & w/ her being our first & only doe she's our test dummy per se.


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## Dani-1995

Ahh ok! I understand completely! This is my wether type doe... she's a pig and is pretty fat haha. I've been showing her.commercial and she's done pretty good


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## hscottom87




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## hscottom87

Explain what you see please. Still learning conformation
& body type.


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## Dani-1995

The biggest thing I don't like is her hip... its really high and pretty steep. She could be longer sided but it really deep which makes up for it. She is wide topped and wide based, very clean fronted and smooth shouldered. 

Is she registered? I wouldn't say she is a wether type doe. When you look at her profile she is gradually deeper from her front end to her back. Wether does would be really level underneath instead if wedge like.


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## BCG

Here is a wether style doe I bred. She's 5 months old, 72 lbs of muscle but as you can see not that tall. She just won a market show last weekend, beating all the wethers.









If she were driving in this pic you would see great muscle definition and a huge rack.

Your doe looks like a wether maker if bred to the right buck. One that will level her hip and add some "look". She has some great qualities with that big top and wide pin set.


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## Dani-1995

BCG said:


> Here is a wether style doe I bred. She's 5 months old, 72 lbs of muscle but as you can see not that tall. She just won a market show last weekend, beating all the wethers.
> 
> If she were driving in this pic you would see great muscle definition and a huge rack.
> 
> Your doe looks like a wether maker if bred to the right buck. One that will level her hip and add some "look". She has some great qualities with that big top and wide pin set.


Nice doe! That's what my girl looked like when she was young.

I agree, the doe in question does have some qualities of a wether doe but I wouldn't advertise her as a wether doe if she were mine. I'd breed her to a super long, level made buck. That would make some nice babies IMO. She seems fairly well rounded to me.... she could produce.nice wethers or pretty show does


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## hscottom87

She is registered. Thank you guys for the feedback. I've heard of goats going through awkward stages. When you see hips like you were describing this doe having could you chalk it up as a stage she'll grow out of or something she will just have. I'm just trying to learn what areas you could give & take on when buying a goat that's still young & which areas are pretty much set in stone.


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## hscottom87

And thanks for describing what qualities to look for in a buck to breed to. That was my next question.


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## Dani-1995

Her hip is higher than her withers right now so she could be awkward right now. Its more high than steep. Steep the won't grow out of- its basically the pin bone goes down from the hook really sharp instead of being level with it. High hips are higher than withers. She does look a bit awkward now so she could grow out of it. If she straightens out when she is alarmed or startled then that is a good indication that she will out grow it. Its kind of a guessing game with babies though.


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## hscottom87

Ok I get what your saying. Thanks again!


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## hscottom87

What is wide pin set by the way?


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## hscottom87

Also what is wide based? Her back end?


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## Dani-1995

A wide pin set is the pin bone coming out as wide or wider than the hooks. I can get pictures of both a wide and semi narrow set if you'd like. Wide based is how wide her legs come out of her body front and rear.


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## hscottom87

Yes please because I'm still unsure of what the pin is.


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## GTAllen

hscottom87 said:


> Yes please because I'm still unsure of what the pin is.


http://www.abga.org/goat-anatomy.php

http://www.boergoatshome.com/anatomy.php

Boer Goat anatomy charts


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## Dani-1995

The black dot it where the pin is 









This is the same doe as above. She is narrow through the hooks and pins because she narrows as she goes back into her pins. She isn't terribly narrow but it is her biggest fault.









This four month old kid is wide through hooks and pins. He comes out even or maybe a bit wide in his pin than his hook which is good. You ideally want noticeable width going back on a Boer... no matter if it wether type or breeding stock. The back end is where.the babies go through (obviously!) And also where the most poundage of meat is.


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## hscottom87

Ah ha..I'm getting it. Ok what do you mean when you say she is deep? And what does volume mean?


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## Dani-1995

There are three dimensional in goats which which we call volume and capacity.- length, width and depth. Depth is how much body they have from the top to the under belly. So volume is just how the three dimensions come together and how much body they have.


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## BCG

Dani-1995 said:


> Nice doe! That's what my girl looked like when she was young.
> 
> I agree, the doe in question does have some qualities of a wether doe but I wouldn't advertise her as a wether doe if she were mine. I'd breed her to a super long, level made buck. That would make some nice babies IMO. She seems fairly well rounded to me.... she could produce.nice wethers or pretty show does


Thank you.

You can definitely go either way with your doe. What is your goal with your breeding project? Do you want to produce good wether prospects or breeding style show goats? You have to decide on that before choosing a buck, because they are definitely 2 different styles.


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## hscottom87

I want my 6 year old to get showing does down before we start incorporating wethers. So until then our goal would be getting her breeding does to show.


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## Dani-1995

I would still breed her to a really long bodied, level hipped and big framed buck.


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## BCG

I would breed her to a smooth level boy. A "pretty" buck with level hip, long hind saddle, ample width and bone all tied together in a smooth package.


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## 20kidsonhill

I have enjoyed reading through everyones comments. Great comments, by the way. For me if I offer a doe as a wether maker, it is because she may be split teated or not correct pigmented, but I still think she will put some nice smooth, level topped, meaty animals on the ground. but because of a fault I will label her as a wether maker. 
Although, there truely are wether makers vs. ABGA show quality. I look as a wether maker as long and barrel shaped(tube shaped) with really reall smooth topline and smooth shoulders. Besides have a ton of muscle they need to be very even and smooth from the shoulders all the way back with out pinching in any areas. Pinching behind the shoulders is common and I find one of the things that is hard to get rid of. Takes a lot of meat in the loin and at the shoulders to get rid of the pinched in feeling. Shoulder meat is more valued in Goats than in sheep, so the shoulder area is pretty important with your wethers. Of course they need a lot of meat on their rearend and down their legs as well. 
When you look down at the top of your wether maker you want to see a flat long table, and not a ten shape. 

ABGA show goats can be blockier and stockier, with much wider shoulders, They need to have prettier heads and fault free, with good breed characteristics. With your weither makers, it is okay if their horn set is not quite as pretty or their nose is not quite as roman. 

Full proof on Able acres website is an excellent example of a wether maker buck, He is out of the Kelly 900 line a wether maker line. Wether maker lines can sell for a lot of money, there is big business in wethers with all the jack pot shows out west. Our area does not have as much for jack pot shows, but it is growing some.


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