# As soon as I decided to keep him



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Somebody out of the blue turned up looking for chickens & goat(s)
He was interested in my little 4 mo old & tried to talk me down to $135. Then he was shocked when I told him $10 for laying hens. 
Don't they go for 3 or 4 as chicks? I have not priced them lately.

But back to this buck; he is as sweet as can be & I was gonna wether him but then again I wouldn't have to feed him but his offer is way too low.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Oh, yeah. Day old chicks are $2-$5, then you have to raise them...way more than fair to get $10 for laying hens. We've had people more than happy to pay that for our extra roosters.

It's frustrating to get low offers on goats. I usually hold out until someone pays my asking price (or close to it) or send them to the auction (and get a higher price than I was offered). It mostly depends on how much time and space I have at the time.....So, I know how you feel.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Goodness...I would LOVE to find laying hens for $10. That's way low in my opinion! I would send that man on his way quick!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks you guys, I thought 10 was kinda low but then again I do not know the ages, some are maybe 5 or 6 and a few only a couple years. 
As for goats, I would rather get a low price at the sale barn & not have to haggle with customers.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Around here laying hens go for $10-$20 depending on the breed. I wouldn't sell the buckling for $135 either, especially if you aren't in a hurry to sell him and just decided to keep him!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I would not sell him for $135. Especially if they're trying to talk you down, it's not like keeping him is going to hurt you much. Name your price and stick to it, or say he's not for sale.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Nope, not giving him away!
As for the chickens, gonna tell him to wait for about a month then he can take new chicks for maybe $2(?) a head.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

$10 is what old hens with no history sells at the sale yard for! Granted on the sellers part they have to pay 25% so $10 is pretty fair for both parties! 
If his offer on the kid is too low don't take it. I do the same thing as you and think of feed too and that's usually when I give in but heck if you put him in the freezer you'll save more money then that!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Honestly I was hoping he wouldn't come back for hens. Since I had quoted the price I had to honor it.
I only sold him three. They were at least 4 or 5yrs old & we have too many eggs as it is with just the two of us. He was reluctant in parting with his money. I mean it came out like he was being wounded.
He wanted to give me his phone # but I conveniently forgot.
Then he asked about the goat again. "No longer for sale."
Bob asked me if I told him he wouldn't find such a nice animal at auction barn but I didn't think of it.
If he ever shows up again I will tell him where to go. The sale barn.
Look, don't make a spectacle of parting with your cash it's infuriating & tells the seller way more than you intended!
Arrrgg!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No it just baffles my mind the amount of people who are rude or simply just have no dang pride any more. If it was me I would find nothing wrong with someone offering less even if it's crazy low, I remember getting into goats and being shocked by prices. But when they are down right rude about it, Like the animal is not worth what your asking, that rubs me the wrong way. I actually just had a guy yesterday offer me less but he did it in such a nice way. He asked how much I said $700. He went on and on about how nice she was. He finally asked if he could make a offer, I said of course and he asked $500. It was on the low side IMO but he did it so well mannered and polite so I excepted. If he came off rude, not a chance I would have taken $1 less.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

In my mind, if they won't part with the money to buy a well cared for animal, they surely won't get vet care for it, remember to give it clean water and when money gets tight, the feed will get scarce.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

Goats Rock said:


> In my mind, if they won't part with the money to buy a well cared for animal, they surely won't get vet care for it, remember to give it clean water and when money gets tight, the feed will get scarce.


This is the month of Ramadan, which ends in just ten days, on June 24th. At the end of Ramadan Muslims celebrate with a feast, and goat meat is one of the traditional "halal" meats. Since it's for a religious festival, conservative muslims are likely to insist on bucks who are over a year old (or will be by the beginning of September, when there is another feast), though the less orthodox may consider young wethers as well. And any halal butcher who is shopping for festival meat will also be interested in chickens for the less prosperous customers.

They're not going to pay full price if they can help it, and they're not worried about vet fees.

-- Paravani


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Paravani you are so right!

Oh this goofball came back today bragging about getting some nice big chicken for $5.
I told him he didn't have to buy mine.
He then told me to call him if I change my mind about the goat.
"H, I don't have your phone # and I don't want it. You are too tough a customer."
Unfortunately he will be back; he bought eggs the other day. Why didn't he haggle about $3 a dozen that must be way too low a price. :scratch:


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

nancy d said:


> Paravani you are so right!
> 
> Oh this goofball came back today bragging about getting some nice big chicken for $5.
> I told him he didn't have to buy mine.
> ...


He'll be back again for the goat. He figures he still has eight or nine days to wear you down, because the buck he buys will likely be sold live and whole for slaughtering AT the feast on the 24th. He has some clients who are going in together on the cost of the goat for the feast.

My advice? Raise the price because _____________ (any reason will do, but make it sound like the buck is extra special). And talk to other goat farmers in your area to find out how much they're asking for bucks.

Many years ago, my mother held a garage sale that was attended by several new immigrants from the Middle East. They wanted to haggle over everything... so my mother obliged them.

"How much? It's a dollar... but for you, special price -- SIX dollars!" Then she'd haggle them back down to the original dollar, and they'd buy the thing, and all sides would be very happy with the deal.

So your difficult customer isn't trying to be insulting -- he's simply shopping for goat meat the way his culture has trained him to do. If you want to sell the buck, raise the price unreasonably high, then let Mr. Difficult haggle you down to the price you really want for it.

(He bought the eggs to show you he isn't wasting your time.)

-- Paravani


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

... Oh, and if you just want to mess with his mind, tell him that you know there's a chicken disease going around that has affected entire flocks locally. It takes a week or two to show up, but your chickens are $10 because none of them have it.

-- Paravani


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I would just tell him I would rather knock the goat in the head and feed to the dogs before I lower the price. Trust me that seems to really offend people for some reason. I said that to a guy that showed up to buy some butcher goats and for some reason he thought it would be cute to rope my Dino old doe and laugh when she freaked out. Well ok maybe it was a mix of throwing the rope in his face and saying that lol but seriously either politely rude or down right rude back seems to get the point across. So far I say you pulled the politely rude off very well with the phone number lol


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

$10 is very cheap for a laying hen. The Isa Browns point of lay pulletts sell for $20 or more! $5 for meat chicks and about that for layer chicks.
I once bought some meat chicks for $6 they were a few weeks old so didn't need heat and fed them up for about 8 weeks till they were as big as turkeys! My goodness those things could eat and poop! We worked it out $ it was the same cost as frozen from the shops to rear these eating machines. My daughter called them the Budas because they just sat and did nothing.
I've had people phone saying they want some wethers expecting to pay $10 I don't thinks so:evil: it's a minimum of $150 for meat. All that food I pour into them I end up saying I don't have anything because I'd rather put them in our freezer. Not worth the bother. I've even had some expecting me to deliver them!! They can go jump,lol. My registered dairy kids sell from $500 up and same with bucks depending on bloodlines. I don't think people realise all the years of breeding and feeding that go into a quality animals. Teejae


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

Jessica84 said:


> I would just tell him I would rather knock the goat in the head and feed to the dogs before I lower the price. Trust me that seems to really offend people for some reason.


Yeah, that would offend Muslims all right. That would offend them profoundly.

Dogs are considered unclean, like pigs, to a Muslim. So basically you told him you considered animals who are unclean like pigs to be more worthy of the goat's meat than anyone who'd pay that low a price (like him).

All I'm saying (for the benefit of goat farmers here who DO sell their goats for meat) is that understanding the culture is a better way to make a sale than taking offense because you don't understand the culture.

If you ask for a MUCH higher price than you want, and praise your buck to high heavens, and visibly show anger and offense when your buck is insulted, chances are you will get a much higher price for your buck than you expected.

The day Ramadan ends is the BIGGEST holiday of the Muslim religious year. Regardless of how insulting the customers may seem when they're dickering, the fact is that they are buying their "Christmas goose". That buck will be the centerpiece of the most important feast of the year!

So go ahead and ask for more than you thought you could get for it. The demand for mature bucks is going to be HUGE right now, and you will have some last-minute customers next week who will pay almost anything for a buck, because the ones they'd been hoping to buy are already gone.

-- Paravani


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I guess I am not up on my Muslim holidays. I sell my dairy goats to people that want to milk or have pet wethers. I never even thought about goat eating holidays.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

I wouldn't count on the goat being humanely handled & slaughtered by them, if National Geographic is right. This is also the time of year that many goats just vanish from their pens...

I recently paid $4.75 for feed store chicks. Large sex link pullets are $18. Older hens $10-15 if you even see any.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

He is not insulting I have dealt with cultural differences before. 
Is Ramadan the same time every year?
One year a whole passel came over, bought several does & bucks dirt cheap & disappeared for a for years.
Turned out he tried to start his own herd. Which is why I either wether or take to sale barn intact.
When first starting out I sold one to an Hispanic guy. The price then was not that high.
"One hundred dollars!!??"
Look, I have to feed the doe. Did not mention feet trimming mucking etc. He never dickered after that.
Anyway our LGD does his job. When we went to get chickens I warned this hassan that I he CAN get into the barn.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

catharina said:


> I wouldn't count on the goat being humanely handled & slaughtered by them, if National Geographic is right. This is also the time of year that many goats just vanish from their pens...
> 
> I recently paid $4.75 for feed store chicks. Large sex link pullets are $18. Older hens $10-15 if you even see any.


Here are the rules for Halal slaughter. There are always those who do not obey the rules, but that's another topic.

http://halalcertification.ie/halal/islamic-method-of-slaughtering/

-- Paravani


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

*Ramadan calendar*



nancy d said:


> He is not insulting I have dealt with cultural differences before.
> Is Ramadan the same time every year?


No, it's based on the lunar year, which is 11 days shorter than the solar year. So next year Ramadan will start around May 15th and end around June 13th, and the year after it will start around May 4th and end around June 2nd... etc.

-- Paravani


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Ugh this is a reason why I very rarely tell people I have goats and don't like letting people know where I live, having to worry about them disappearing. Though someday I do hope to sell off the farm.

As far as chicken prices go, $10 is pretty cheap in my opinion. Most laying hens here are going for around $10-20 at 1 yr or 2 yr. Though I always have a hard time trying to get people to pay for them. Chickens just seem to be one of those things that everyone knows what they are worth, but nobody wants to commit to the price in addition to having to make a potentially long drive to pick them up.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

Goats Rock said:


> I guess I am not up on my Muslim holidays. I sell my dairy goats to people that want to milk or have pet wethers. I never even thought about goat eating holidays.


The world is changing, and the goat industry is changing as well. As more people move into the cities, there will be less call for pet wethers every year... but as more people from Africa and the Middle East move to other countries, the demand for meat goats will rise.

Let's face it -- you have to do SOMETHING with all the male goats who are born. They aren't good for milking. So it's pets or meat or killing at birth.

What are you gonna do?

-- Paravani


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She can do anything she wants with them. Everyone has to decide how they want to sell their goats and it is their right to sell for meat or not.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

ksalvagno said:


> She can do anything she wants with them. Everyone has to decide how they want to sell their goats and it is their right to sell for meat or not.


I was in no way implying that she should not or could not. My goal was simply to educate.

Goat breeders who DO sell for meat have the opportunity to make a good profit right now, and I see no harm in encouraging them to take advantage of the timing... just as turkey breeders take advantage of Thanksgiving!

-- Paravani


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Paravani said:


> Here are the rules for Halal slaughter. There are always those who do not obey the rules, but that's another topic.
> 
> http://halalcertification.ie/halal/islamic-method-of-slaughtering/
> 
> -- Paravani


So it forbids stunning or shooting in the head much like Kosher--the goat has to be fully conscious while its throat is cut through windpipe & both veins, & remain conscious as it bleeds to death.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

catharina said:


> So it forbids stunning or shooting in the head much like Kosher--the goat has to be fully conscious while its throat is cut through windpipe & both veins, & remain conscious as it bleeds to death.


The way I read it is that the animal CAN be stunned, but the stunning must not be the cause of death. The animal must be alive when its throat is cut.

However, I am neither a butcher nor a Muslim, so I can only go by what I read on the internet.

-- Paravani


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

There's a place not far from me that butchers like this and it's part of the religion. It is cutting of the throat. I sold him a bottle baby and what he does is teaches the 'pet' to come when called, pet goes out and the others follow but do not come out. Honestly for all I know he was one that didn't come out but once I got the guy to actually except that he must talk to me, the woman, not my husband it was very interesting to learn. The animals must not be stressed out. Some will eat a doeling but NOT if it's ever kidded before. He provides all this for people that want them butchered this way. Now a few months ago my brother showed me a YouTube video on them cutting cows throats and at this point I'm not sure how I feel about any of mine going threw that. But I also have seen a well placed bullet on our steers and they keep moving while I'm screaming to shoot it again so I'm not sure if it's really as bad as it looked or not. I won't let any of my kids go for the price he's willing to pay so I don't have to worry about that right now


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Awhile back we had the butcher come out and do 2 pigs and 2 goats. He dropped the pigs with one shot. No thrashing just one and done. The goats he lays them down, cuts the throat, and snaps their neck in what seems like 5 seconds. Again. No thrashing.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

^^^ this is why I sell to the Mexican market. The goats are quickly dispatched and aren't run beforehand.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Do they suffer at all when the only throat is cut? I have tried not to judge this way because I've never seen it done in person but in that video those cows were still able to walk/ tumble out of that squeeze and with shooting if they move they usually go down and kinda spazz a bit......but I admit I also go out of my way not to be around when a animal is put down here and I've only had to do it once myself.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

I do not belive they suffer any more than any other method. I watched the entire process. Not a sound, no kicking, just slice and snap. I actually did it myself last year. 125 lb weather. Again, no thrashing, no screaming.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I would imagine the neck breaking would do it but what is your guess on cutting the throat?


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

My guess is a bullet is not any nicer. But I have goats intended for slaughter from birth. Im a carnivore.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh no, I'm the same as you! 99% of my boys born go on the dinner table. You would have to see the video to get my question, to me it looked like the animals were still alive after. I have no problem with a animal being killed for meat and a bam lights out, I just have a issue if it suffers first


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Jessica84, I, personally, think just the throat cut would be a terrible way to go. A few years ago I decided I was going to raise meat chickens. Came time to butcher and I decided on the cone and throat slit. I tried to do it for days and just couldn't. Even had him in the cone and took him back out several times. I finally used a broomstick and broke his neck THEN cut his throat. It was instant. I just couldn't have an alert, aware, animal bleeding to death. I still only managed the one. ..killing is apparently not something I can handle very well, but if I ever tried again I know I would be breaking the neck or sine other instant death no matter what the animal.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

When I watch my does give birth, i believe there is some degree of suffering. Some more than others. And once in awhile the doe has complications and things get real ugly. 
However, that breeding was intentional by the goat owners. 
I dont see a huge difference.
I once almost bled out myself. (ectopic pregnancy). I just kept blacking out. I think the goat prolly blacks out never knowing what happened.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

If done properly with very sharp knife from one side to the other quickly in a fraction of a second, severing windpipe & esophagus it is very humane.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

If they shoot the pigs, why don't they shoot the goats too? How can you think that being cut with a knife doesn't hurt? That makes no sense to me. Also, why break their neck after cutting them instead of before?


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## Steampunked (Mar 23, 2015)

nancy d said:


> If done properly with very sharp knife from one side to the other quickly in a fraction of a second, severing windpipe & esophagus it is very humane.


I must confirm this - I have used similar methods to dispatch chickens - and despite what people think, chickens CAN feel pain and panic. It's in the technique - I have also seen incorrect stunning methods that lead to a large animal in horrific pain, unable to move, but panicking. Lastly, I've also experienced having no idea if an animal is dead - realising that it is later, but mistaking nerve twitches for life.

I have multiple Muslim coworkers, some of whom are vegetarian entirely (all vegetarian food is Halal, of course). Others who couldn't imagine an animal suffering for them - some of whom are dog lovers. Like anyone else, there is a wide range of people. I've met plenty of hunters here who show a distressing lack of empathy when dispatching an animal, leaving injured ones to die in pain 'because ducks cannot feel pain' or 'fish cannot feel pain'.

I've been cut right through tendons myself, personally, with a razor sharp knife - I did not feel it. I only started feeling 'sick' as my body went into shock about ten minutes later. So it seems to me that it is a technique issue, as well as having the correct tools to do so. Much like any other method, there will be unethical people who 'shortcut' because they do not care, or to save money. Correct Halal practice is to avoid suffering, but then correct abattoir practice is to avoid suffering, and we know how that can come out when money becomes an issue.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok so basically like any other way if done right it is a humane way. I was just curious, not that I'm ever planning on killing anything that way. Sorry Nancy I took your post totally off track :/


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

catharina said:


> If they shoot the pigs, why don't they shoot the goats too? How can you think that being cut with a knife doesn't hurt? That makes no sense to me. Also, why break their neck after cutting them instead of before?


I think the pigs are shot first so you can get to the task of cutting the throat to bleed the animal out. Goats are easier to handle. So it isnt a necessary step. As far as breaking the neck first. There is too much resistance with the flesh and such.


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## Paravani (Jan 18, 2015)

*Headless Chicken...*



New-goat-mom said:


> Jessica84, I, personally, think just the throat cut would be a terrible way to go. A few years ago I decided I was going to raise meat chickens. Came time to butcher and I decided on the cone and throat slit. I tried to do it for days and just couldn't. Even had him in the cone and took him back out several times. I finally used a broomstick and broke his neck THEN cut his throat. It was instant. I just couldn't have an alert, aware, animal bleeding to death. I still only managed the one. ..killing is apparently not something I can handle very well, but if I ever tried again I know I would be breaking the neck or sine other instant death no matter what the animal.


My mom was once dared to kill a chicken. It seems that one of the boys at school was supposed to kill a chicken for dinner, and somehow my mom got roped into proving her mettle by doing the deed for him. She had never killed a chicken before, but insisted that she could do it.

The chicken was spun around and around to make it dizzy. Then it was laid on the chopping block, and my mother swung the axe. The chicken's head fell off, the chicken's body kept walking around, and my mother fainted.

That was the last chicken my mother ever killed.

-- Paravani


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Well back to "Sig", his new name; since he has gotten too big to band he has vet apt next week to get it done. It might cost more than he's worth but on the other hand I'm hoping there won't be any oops babies. Besides, the other wether is getting up in years & he will be a great pet.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

But back to slaughtering methods you all probably didn't grow up during the late 60's & get to spend afternoons with your friends watching them electrocute hogs.
Or request cow eyeballs to bring home in cellophane.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Gosh. I missed that?? All we got to see were the Dairy Cows giving birth. Now that Dairy Farm is a huge shopping center.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh your gonna have to explain the eyeballs lol I'm a 80s baby so nope I have no idea what this is you speak of lol it does remind me though of my daughters first time butchering which was a deer and all she wanted was the heart. We gave her the heart and yeah she wasn't very impressed at the time lol although we did butcher a steer last week and I have another picture of her and the heart and there's a smile this time not a OMG look lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Nancy d, I almost got thrown out of 3rd grade because I brought eyeballs to school for show and tell. The boys thought they were cool, the girls "ewww, gross!" I thought they were pretty neat, myself. (1969 was the year). Thanks for reminding me!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Goats Rock said:


> Nancy d, I almost got thrown out of 3rd grade because I brought eyeballs to school for show and tell. The boys thought they were cool, the girls "ewww, gross!" I thought they were pretty neat, myself. (1969 was the year). Thanks for reminding me!


Too funny!


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