# Senior goat has fever and cough - lungworms



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Our 12 year old wether George has had some random bouts of coughing over the last couple of days. He is not coughing constantly but when he does it sounds dry.
We took his temp last night and it was 105 F, so we started him on Tylan 200. Used the 1cc per 25 lbs dosage and gave 8 ccs since per the weight tape he is about 190 lbs.
At about noon today took his temp again and it was 105.7 F. Should we give banamine? If the Tylan is going to help when should we see improvement?
He is eating and drinking. He is acting very slightly wobbly (I assume due to fever). And his appetite is decreased some. Usually his evening mush is gone by morning. But about half of it is still there (he is still slowly eating it).
He also has oak branches available and was eating those last night and ate some more just now.
We counted his respirations per minute and it was normal, 12 breaths a minute.
We tried listening to his lungs with a stethoscope and didn't hear any loud crackling but don't know exactly what to listen for.
He has been getting 1000mg of vit C per day for months. I gave him another 1000mg (two 500mg chewables) just now but he had them last night too.
He had a clean standard fecal on Oct 10th 2020 and his FAMACHA is pink.
I am going to send in a fecal to check for lungworms but need to get enough pellets from him first. He has had lungworm show up on a fecal in the past but didn't have symptoms then.
Any advice?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes give banamine.

It may take a couple of days to see improvement. If it takes longer get a stronger antibiotic from a vet. 

Being wobbly is concerning.
About 4 hours or so, after giving antibiotics, give a big dose of fortified vit b complex SQ 6 cc’s per 100 lbs 2 or 3 x a day spread it out, give daily for a while until the wobbly effect goes away. Then 1 x a day for a couple more days. 
That may be polio starting.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Got it. His rumen is working right now.
He had an episode where he started breathing very fast and then panted with his mouth open. We immediately gave 2cc of banamine. This happened very fast in like 10 minutes. It started right after he gulped a quart of electrolytes.
He was also in the sun when it started. He is lying in the shade right now and not panting any more but his respirations are still too fast (but not as fast as they were.)
We called the vet and he is out of town. He said it may take 24 hrs for the antibiotics and banamine to work but that he may need a different antibiotic.
We are going to get a different vet to come out if he doesn't improve.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay his respiration is back to normal. His fever went down a degree and he started shivering very slightly. We gave another shot of Tylan and a shot of fortified b complex an hour ago.
We found a vet that can come tomorrow if he doesn't improve. His appetite is depressed but he will eat leaves and grass (and grain, but he's not getting that) . Took a few bites of his mush and he also has perennial peanut hay available. He is chewing cud.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like he is doing a little better. I hope he continues to improve.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

It says on @happybleats website that Tylan 200 should be twice a day, we have been doing it one time a day. Which is it?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had learned early on from a goat mentor to use Tylan 200 2 times a day. It had always been effective for us this way. Often when people say Tylan 200 is not working is when given once a day.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

To add to all of this good advice, I would start on 4 cloves of garlic daily.

Watch for any drooling, flanking, or neurological symptoms.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we gave another shot of Tylan and b complex. He doesn't really have an appetite and just wants to lay down but will get up if you act like you are going to take his temp. Temp this morning is 104.8 F. He did pee and poop. I got up a few times last night and gave him warm molasses water. He's eating minerals right now.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would probably give another dose of banamine. Again, the garlic will boost the antibiotic's efficacy.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice. 

Temp still high, if not better in a day or 2, go to another drug.

Yes 2 x a day with that antibiotic. So dosing it proper may help. 
But if not better as suggested above get a different drug.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We have a vet coming


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good decision, let us know what they say.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Vet said it is most likely pneumonia, his lungs sound raspy. She said he doesn't have a heart murmur so it is unlikely that it's his heart but possible.
Vet gave him another 2cc of banamine IV.
He also got a shot of Draxxin and we have another one to give in 4 days. I assume we should continue the Tylan 200? We had collected a fecal earlier so she took it (going to use McMasters method on it) and we should have results tomorrow. But his FAMACHA is fine.
I'll send another fecal to meadowmist to check for lungworms too. 

Now I have to get him to eat and drink. Poor buddy just wants to rest. He will eat certain types of leaves and he ate a chopped up apple and carrot this morning.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Vet said it is most likely pneumonia, his lungs sound raspy. She said he doesn't have a heart murmur so it is unlikely that it's his heart but possible.
> Vet gave him another 2cc of banamine IV.
> He also got a shot of Draxxin and we have another one to give in 4 days. I assume we should continue the Tylan 200? We had collected a fecal earlier so she took it (going to use McMasters method on it) and we should have results tomorrow. But his FAMACHA is fine.
> I'll send another fecal to meadowmist to check for lungworms too.
> ...


If he gets pelleted anything of any sort I would make up a slurry, and warm flat dark beer.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Yes 2 x a day with that antibiotic.


I meant to mention, the medicine cabinet 2020 doesn't say to give Tylan 200 twice a day. It just says give for 5 days


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> About 4 hours or so, after giving antibiotics,


Also I meant to ask why 4 hours after giving antibiotics? We gave b complex at the same time we gave the antibiotics, I thought that the 4 hours later thing was for probiotics.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If he gets pelleted anything of any sort I would make up a slurry, and warm flat dark beer.


How do you warm the beer? How long do you let it sit out? Thanks


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

So if it came refrigerated, pour it in a bowl and let it sit until it’s room temp. If it is unrefrigerated, pour it in a bowl and whisk it around to flatten it.

I shouldn’t have said warm - it’s room temp.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thank you! We are going to give the beer, b complex shot and tylan 200 shot (he got draxxin earlier too) at the same time. That ok? 
He's not wanting to eat now so I hope the beer helps.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we gave the beer, tylan, and b complex. He's shivering slightly and his temp is down to 102.5 F. 
We're going to give him a bit and see if the beer helps. It's like he wants to eat and drink but feels too sick to actually do it.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Poor guy he sounds like he feels horrible. Can you give him some pine branches? How about some warm oatmeal and molasses mash? I tried that with Remus when he wasn’t up to eating and it helped him get his appetite back.
I hope he feels better.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

He is feeling better!! Got up, ate a bit of warm mush, drank molasses water and now he's eating leaves! He ate some pine too


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

That’s good to hear!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Antibiotics kick in he will feel a bunch better..glad he's eating


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yay! Great news!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Just took his temp and it was 100.9 F. He is still acting better and eating leaves, he also ate a little mush. Going to give probiotics in a few hours, we also gave Tylan and b complex again.
Now to get him drinking more and eating a lot


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Keeping lots of browse food, hay and alfalfa in front of him will keep him munching...that will help his temp come up too. Its not horribly low..maybe cold out side..but eating will help. Good job with him!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad to hear he is improving, good work.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Keep going with b complex 2x daily as well.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

His temp tonight is 101.5. He wouldn't drink anything all day except one sip of molasses water but after it got dark he drank about 8 cups of hot molasses water. He's also eating warm mush but not as much as usual. Chewing cud and today he ate a good bit of leaves, he's just more picky about them than he usually is. His favorite is sugar maple.
He wouldn't eat his vitamin c chewables. Basically he's just more picky.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Are you able to do subq fluids?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

21goaties said:


> His temp tonight is 101.5. He wouldn't drink anything all day except one sip of molasses water but after it got dark he drank about 8 cups of hot molasses water. He's also eating warm mush but not as much as usual. Chewing cud and today he ate a good bit of leaves, he's just more picky about them than he usually is. His favorite is sugar maple.
> He wouldn't eat his vitamin c chewables. Basically he's just more picky.


That is still good news.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Are you able to do subq fluids?


Yes we can if needed


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I find they help a lot, I would definitely do that for him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

I have a question. The first 2 days that he was on Tylan (the 13th and 14th), we only gave it once a day. Should we count those days as part of the 5 day course? If we do then today is the 5th day. Or should we continue the Tylan twice a day for 2 more days? He also got Draxxin on the 15th and he'll get another dose on the 19th.
@happybleats @toth boer goats @ksalvagno


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

21goaties said:


> I have a question. The first 2 days that he was on Tylan (the 13th and 14th), we only gave it once a day. Should we count those days as part of the 5 day course? If we do then today is the 5th day. Or should we continue the Tylan twice a day for 2 more days? He also got Draxxin on the 15th and he'll get another dose on the 19th.
> @happybleats @toth boer goats @ksalvagno


I would do another two days to make sure he got the full correct dose.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Rather be over prepared. Give him another 2 days. He will need all the help he can get


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If hes still struggling I would definitely do another few days..


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we will give for another 2 days.
I have another question, about the subcutaneous fluids. Where should we give them and how much for a 200lb goat? We have 2 bags of lactated ringers but have never used it. 
He is peeing and pooping just not near as much as he would normally. It's gotten a bit harder to pull up skin to give shots so we think he is a bit dehydrated. His temp is normal around 102 F.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I personally have always done it where the neck meets into the body. Depending on how much, I'll do both sides. You could always start with 200ml. I wouldn't do more than 500ml.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Guess who just drank from his water bucket :7up:


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

He knew he’d better do something so he didn’t get jabbed again!
Glad he’s drinking


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

I think he has a sore throat. I just offered him some more warm electrolytes (which he drank earlier) and he wouldn't touch them. He usually loves his mush but he's not touching it save maybe a couple of bites. All he wants is fresh grass, peanut hay, and fresh sugar maple/other similar tree leaves. He makes a squeaking noise (sounds like nails on a chalkboard) when he chews forage/hay due to teeth problems but he does that when he is fine too.
It's 48 F (nighttime) and he is shivering slightly. Temp was 101.5 F. We have a coat for him but don't want to put it on him if he doesn't need it. 
Could the antibiotics be causing him to not want to eat and drink as much? Anyone ever had a goat with a sore throat?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I would probably give another dose of banamine. Again, the garlic will boost the antibiotic's efficacy.


The garlic works, don't pass this up. I buy bags of garlic at Walmart and feed with a dab of peanut butter 4-5 times a week to all my herd that will take it. I feed 40-45 cloves at a time, whole cloves, feed at least 2 gloves per goat and sometimes 3 cloves. It maintains the immune system and help with worm and parasite problem. Garlic, "it's what for goats". Try it, they will love you for it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Antibiotics should not cause sore throat. Did he possible eat somthing with thorns? Try to give a look to see what you can see. Hows his rumen sound and function? Temp is lower end of normal and needs to be watched. Dark beer and probiotics may help there..
in the mean time Honey is wonderful for soothing a sore throat and offeres antibacterial benefits and such. Give him a tablespoon and see how that does.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Do you have any slippery elm? Great for a sore throat.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Temp this morning is 101.8 F and he just drank a lot of water, more than he did yesterday! He's standing in the sun chewing cud right now. He's still not eating his mush though. 
Don't have slippery elm but I will put that on the list of things to get along with garlic. We have honey, I'll drench him with some

He's getting probiotics daily although today I'm not sure when to give them. He's getting his 2nd Draxxin shot this afternoon and then a Tylan shot this evening plus the one this morning. I thought you were supposed to wait a few hours to give probiotics after giving antibiotics, but with 3 antibiotic shots in a day I don't know when to fit in the probiotics unless I give them after dark


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Did he possible eat somthing with thorns


Not that I know of but we are going to try to look in his mouth in case it's his teeth


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Antibiotics should not cause sore throat.


But would they cause decreased appetite?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Not normally... most times they get the goat feeling better and at that point they eat. What else is he getting? Make sure to give b complex to help with appetite and Probiotics and dark beer for rumen health.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..if you can do probiotics a few hours between antibiotics shots its best. Before bed is perfect


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## Boers4ever (Jun 28, 2020)

When one of my girls got a upper respiratory infection the vet gave her Draxxin. I also drenched her almost constantly with electrolytes. Like 12oz every couple hours. It helped her a whole lot. She had quit eating and drinking. I hope your boy gets to feeling better soon.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Not normally... most times they get the goat feeling better and at that point they eat. What else is he getting? Make sure to give b complex to help with appetite and Probiotics and dark beer for rumen health.


He's getting b complex twice a day 
Thanks


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

21goaties said:


> He's getting b complex twice a day
> Thanks


And beer?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> And beer?


No he just got beer the one time. He didn't like it and it took 6 drench syringe fulls to give it but it did help when he was feeling really sick. I'd just rather not do it again unless he needs it of course

We gave the honey.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

George's current status


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He looks good and eating, YAY, good job.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Yesterday was the last day of antibiotics. I think he's having a reaction to all the shots. Yesterday while he was grazing I noticed a pouch hanging down from his belly. It felt squishy, not hard, about the size of a large orange but not shaped like an orange. Today it is way smaller, but on his side where he has been getting the shots the fur is really ruffled and wet. I guess he chewed on it?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes, frequent injections in the same area can become irritated. Its best to find a few places to inject and rotate those. Poor guy, glad he's done with that part any way. Hopefully he will continue to improve..Good job!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Good job on caring for your guy. Hope he gets better soon.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Please keep going with raw garlic daily for at least a week to prevent any relapses.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We haven't been giving garlic but we just got some yesterday. No way he will eat it (he is VERY picky) so I'll have to figure out a way to drench it.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

@21goaties what is his most fave treat. Disguise the garlic with this. See if it works


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

1. Whole cloves (goats take them as treats)

2. Whole cloves coated in molasses or honey

3. Suggestion #1 but tossed with feed

4. Suggestion #2 but tossed with feed

5. Crushed or chopped garlic in feed

6. Suggestion #2 but crushed or chopped in feed

7. Crushed garlic mixed with a teaspoon of applesauce

8. Crushed garlic mixed with a teaspoon of mashed bananas

9. Crushed garlic mixed with a teaspoon of pumpkin puree

10. Suggestion #7, #8, or #9 with Slippery Elm Powder added

11. Crushed garlic mixed with a bit of flaxseed meal and molasses to form a ball

12. Suggestion #11 can be shoved into the mouth of a goat a few times forcefully if they don't like it at first

13. Suggestion #11 can also be tossed into feed, or broken up slightly, then mixed with feed.

14. Garlic can be put into a peanut hull

15. Take a banana slice about an inch thick, scoop out the middle leaving a bit on the bottom, stick the clove in (or crushed garlic) cover the top, and offer to the goat or forcefully put into the goats mouth until they realize it is tasty.





In emergency (non-regular) situations



16. Crushed finely and mixed with water to drench carefully

17. Crushed finely and mixed with juice (carrot, fruit) to drench carefully

18. Crushed finely and mixed with olive oil to drench carefully or feed from a spoon


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

He just ate 2 cloves of garlic covered in peter pan honey peanut butter :coolmoves:

I'll give 2 more later


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Yay. Keep going


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Welp. The meadowmist Baermann fecal results came back.

Results said "There was a very high number of lungworm larvae of both species in the Baermann test."

So that would explain a lot. He wasn't coughing a ton and had a clean standard fecal a month ago. Clearly the lungworms have been proliferating for a while.
What treatment would you recommend? Ivermectin?
We have LOH parasite formula.

@happybleats @ksalvagno @toth boer goats @NigerianDwarfOwner707 @goathiker


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd do Ivomec.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

This will depend if you want to go natural or not. With herbs you will need to go acute dosing Ivomec does target lung worm.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would do Ivomec. I’d also test the rest of your herd.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Injectable ivermectin given orally?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, unless she is really bad anemic.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we gave the ivermectin. Repeat in 10 days?

I tried giving him a dose of LOH parasite formula in some peanut butter but he spit out the part that had the herbs in it.
So I guess I'll be drenching that...I figured since it reduced the lungworm numbers before (a year ago which is the last time we got a baermann fecal on him)
then it wouldn't hurt.

He's still getting 4 cloves a day of garlic.

I agree we should get more of the goats tested.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Okay we gave the ivermectin. Repeat in 10 days?
> 
> I tried giving him a dose of LOH parasite formula in some peanut butter but he spit out the part that had the herbs in it.
> So I guess I'll be drenching that...I figured since it reduced the lungworm numbers before (a year ago which is the last time we got a baermann fecal on him)
> ...


In my experience, best lungworm plan is ivomec 3 doses 10 days apart then once more in 30 days.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

When should we get another fecal to see if the ivermectin worked? 

Should I keep giving him vitamin C daily if he is getting 4 cloves a day of garlic?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

After the final Ivomec is given wait at least 2 weeks or so.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Should I keep giving him vitamin C daily if he is getting 4 cloves a day of garlic?
Also, when should I stop the garlic?

@NigerianDwarfOwner707


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would stop the vitamin c and continue 1 clove of garlic daily for at least another two weeks; but with a senior goat I’d keep going forever, at least one clove a week if you don’t want to do daily.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I would stop the vitamin c and continue 1 clove of garlic daily for at least another two weeks; but with a senior goat I'd keep going forever, at least one clove a week if you don't want to do daily.


Ok good, anyway once he tasted the peanut butter/garlic mix he decided that vitamin c was not good any more lol.

So I should stop giving 4 cloves a day and go to one?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Maybe taper off by doing two cloves for a few days, then one!!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We got baermann tests done on 3 of the other goats, 2 of which had a FEW lungworm noted on their fecal a year ago.
Got results and all 3 have high levels of both species of lungworm. One was almost as high as George's was and the other 2 were lower.
We gave all three ivermectin today.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Do you have ponds or standing water?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Do you have ponds or standing water?


Yes lol we are in south GA
We just fenced off the pond this year so they can't get to it and added another large pasture.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Yes lol we are in south GA
> We just fenced off the pond this year so they can't get to it and added another large pasture.


:great:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Lime is good to put on soil to deter snails.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Please keep going with raw garlic daily for at least a week to prevent any relapses.


Yes


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update on George, today he frolicked for the first time since last winter :inlove:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great to hear!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad to hear that.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

21goaties said:


> Update on George, today he frolicked for the first time since last winter :inlove:


Yayy! :run:


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I was going to ask you, did all the goats that were positive for lungworm have a cough?
Thanks


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

MadHouse said:


> I was going to ask you, did all the goats that were positive for lungworm have a cough?
> Thanks


Nope. Weeks ago I heard one of them cough several times but that could have been caused by many things....now I don't know what to think! George didn't cough much either and when he did it was a dry cough. He had a couple of coughing fits and that was what made us take his temp. But his coughing could have been from the pneumonia, which we think was secondary to the lungworm infestation. Hopefully he doesn't have any lung damage. Needless to say we are going to get everybody else tested.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

21goaties said:


> Nope. Weeks ago I heard one of them cough several times but that could have been caused by many things....now I don't know what to think! George didn't cough much either and when he did it was a dry cough. He had a couple of coughing fits and that was what made us take his temp. But his coughing could have been from the pneumonia, which we think was secondary to the lungworm infestation. Hopefully he doesn't have any lung damage. Needless to say we are going to get everybody else tested.


Mhmm... that makes it scary!
Thanks


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Well guys......George still has lungworm. We gave him the ivermectin injectable orally 3x 10 days apart and then again in 30 days. 
We sent another fecal to meadowmist lab service 2 weeks after the last ivermectin was given and it still showed lungworm as did the fecal of another goat we treated. Thankfully George is not acting sick at all.

We do live in the perfect place for lungworm and there are always multiple marshes/springs/standing water in all of the goat pastures/pens unless we are having a drought....and we have a TON of slugs...

The lady from meadowmist said that the reason the ivermectin didn't work is because it needed to be injected instead of given orally. Is this true?

I'm guessing all the others we treated probably still have them too...

Here's the original fecal that was done on George on 11/21/20










The next round of samples that was done on 12/1/2020









The next round done on 12/17/2020









Next round done on 12/18/2020









And then here's the one we just got on George and Roger to see if the treatment worked:









All of the goats we got fecals on were treated 3x 10 days apart with injectable ivermectin or ivermectin plus given orally except Uncle, Wilbur, and Henry as their numbers were low. However we were planning on treating them and the rest of the herd who wasn't tested as meadowmist recommended...provided the ivermectin worked on the first ones we treated. It looks like it hasn't. We did 1cc/22lbs for the ivermectin and 1cc/33lbs for the ivermectin plus. Did we do something wrong with dosing (should we have fasted them before giving it?) or should we try injecting it?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Also, we've continued giving George garlic (2 cloves) daily and we have been giving garlic to Roger daily for the last few weeks.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Honestly, I would try injecting it and see what happens.

Have they been on LOH wormer?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What does your vet say?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Honestly, I would try injecting it and see what happens.
> 
> Have they been on LOH wormer?


Frances, Thelma, Stretch, Iris, Phronsie, Henry, Roger, and Told-You-So were on it but haven't gotten any since the end of November. I need to start everyone on it again. However George hates it and it is a pain to drench him.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> What does your vet say?


The vet didn't have any experience with lungworm or advice for treatment when she came out to see George. She didn't know about the baermann test for it, we found out by sending a fecal to meadowmist.

I guess we will give George the ivermectin injected. But then there's all the others we tested. They are due for their 30 day dose of oral ivermectin and I'm not sure what to do since that protocol wasn't 100% successful on George. 
Since these things can cause lung damage, I guess just start everyone on the ivermectin shots?
Or did we dose the oral wrong?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I have treated lungworm with a combination of Land of Havilah dewormer and Dr. Christopher's Resp-Free (you can buy that through Land of Havilah's web store, too). You can use those products in conjunction with a chemical dewormer, too. I like to add fresh garlic, mullein leaf, fresh oregano, sage, and thyme to that mix. I treated one doe using only the herbs. I dosed her 3x a day for I think a week, and then 2x a day for another week or so. She had lungworm, per a fecal, and a very persistent cough. That was in the summer. She has been great since. A bit of a cough here or there, but nothing nasty. 
I just treated my buckling, too. I didn't do a fecal on him, but I'm 99% sure it was lungworm, as he sounded just like my doe did, and we've had a weird, warm, wet winter. I gave him Ivermectin (1.87% oral paste, at 3x the normal dose for horses), too, so will do a follow-up dose of that in 10 days, and then I'll run a fecal to be sure I got everything. Since his cough was so bad, I didn't want to wait to get fecal results before I treated him.
The nice thing is that the herbal mix is good for the lungs, regardless if you're dealing with lungworm or something else. If I see a snotty nose or hear coughing, I'll just give that goat the mix for a couple days, and that usually clears up the problem.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I should add: I got busy after I treated my doe and never did a follow-up fecal on her. My guess is she still has some lungworm, as I'm assuming the majority of my goats do, but the intensive treatment plan, followed by twice weekly deworming with the LOH dewormer, plus the lung worm regimen when I felt she might be as risk, as well as good food and minerals to boost her immune system, have kept the lung worm in check, and I haven't had further issues with her to this point. I'll probably send in fecals for several of my goats when I do the buckling, so I'll see what her lungworm numbers are at that point.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You're still seeing thrown off eggs and worms. 2 weeks is way too early for the next fecal. 
If you're going to treat again go to valbazen. Injection of ivermectin is going backwards at this point.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

goathiker said:


> . 2 weeks is way too early for the next fecal.


Okay, so how long after treatment should we be waiting to do fecals?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Injection of ivermectin is going backwards at this point.


Because we already treated with it orally?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, because orally is stronger in goats. Unless, you gave it on a full stomach. If so some of the medication might have stuck to the food particles. 

To be honest I would just do a dose of Quest plus to put an end to repeated wormings for now. Then do a fecal a month later. 
When worming they should go into their clean pasture 3 days later. 
I actually use a worming pen because the contaminated manure is not good for your ground or water shed. This way it can be collected and burned yearly.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Yes, because orally is stronger in goats. Unless, you gave it on a full stomach. If so some of the medication might have stuck to the food particles.
> 
> To be honest I would just do a dose of Quest plus to put an end to repeated wormings for now. Then do a fecal a month later.
> When worming they should go into their clean pasture 3 days later.
> I actually use a worming pen because the contaminated manure is not good for your ground or water shed. This way it can be collected and burned yearly.


Thanks!  
Yeah I wanted to give it on an empty stomach but it didn't work out for some of them. We didn't really fast anyone and gave it right before we fed them a few times....would that have made a significant difference in how well it worked?

For the quest plus, would that be for the ones who are due for their 30 day dose of ivermectin or just George (the one who already got all 4 doses)?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Honestly I have seen reduction with LOH and lungworms so I would treat with that and @happybleat's oil regimen + thyme oil.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Thanks!
> Yeah I wanted to give it on an empty stomach but it didn't work out for some of them. We didn't really fast anyone and gave it right before we fed them a few times....would that have made a significant difference in how well it worked?
> 
> For the quest plus, would that be for the ones who are due for their 30 day dose of ivermectin or just George (the one who already got all 4 doses)?


Anybody got an answer for me on the above?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Not sure on the quest plus question. I'm sure someone can answer.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

@goathiker or anyone who knows, about the quest plus, would that be for the goats who are due for their 30 day dose of ivermectin or just George (the one who already got all 4 doses)? 
And does quest plus work on lungworm?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's the thing. Lungworm is super easy to kill, one dose of ivermectin is all that's needed. But, every species of worms move through the lungs. If there is still a problem they either have lung damage that needs time to heal or it's something else, like liver fluke.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thank you!!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Here's the thing. Lungworm is super easy to kill, one dose of ivermectin is all that's needed. But, every species of worms move through the lungs. If there is still a problem they either have lung damage that needs time to heal or it's something else, like liver fluke.


Ok now I'M confused - are you saying the lungworm on the fecal AFTER treatment is in fact liver fluke?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Ok now I'M confused - are you saying the lungworm on the fecal AFTER treatment is in fact liver fluke?


I took it to mean that it they are still having issues then it could be liver fluke.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

21goaties said:


> I took it to mean that it they are still having issues then it could be liver fluke.


Which I don't think it is because both George and Roger have had at least one dose of ivermectin plus (we used both the regular and the plus when treating)
But we also live in the perfect place for lungworm and liver fluke. I found a slug in George's bucket yesterdaymg:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

goathiker said:


> Here's the thing. Lungworm is super easy to kill, one dose of ivermectin is all that's needed. But, every species of worms move through the lungs. If there is still a problem they either have lung damage that needs time to heal or it's something else, like liver fluke.


 I agree.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

goathiker said:


> Here's the thing. Lungworm is super easy to kill, one dose of ivermectin is all that's needed. But, every species of worms move through the lungs. If there is still a problem they either have lung damage that needs time to heal or it's something else, like liver fluke.


In my experience, when a goat has had lungworm, it's sort of predisposes them to have other respiratory issues. My goats that have dealt with lungworm also seem to be more sensitive to things like dusty hay, stinky bedding, or any other irritants in their environment. So far, it does seem to improve with time and continued supportive care. So that's just something to bear in mind.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update:
We got another fecal done on George and Roger. They have not been treated with anything else (they are still getting garlic though)
Their lungworm results were 74 and 51. Versus their lungworm results on Jan 29th which were 745 and 125! 
So it does look like they were still shedding dead worms in January like @goathiker said.

Meadowmist did say in the email that there were still quite a few lungworms seen.
But those numbers are much improved.
Shouldn't the results be zero? I know that it's fine if they have a low level of stomach worms, but I hate imagining lungworms living in their lungs.

So basically what I'm asking is should I treat again? If I do I should use Valbazen or LOH herbal right? Since it's pointless to repeat ivermectin?
When we got fecals done initially we found out that most of the goats had at least some lungworm. We treated all the ones that had a significant amount with ivermectin/ivermectin plus 3x 10 days apart. However we only did the dose in 30 days on George and Roger. 

When we sent the samples for George and Roger we also got one done on Frances, one of the ones we didn't give the 30 day dose to. When we first got fecals in December she had a lungworm "level" of 156. The results we just got say she has a level of 135. 
Would it make sense to retreat any of the ones that we didn't give the 30 day dose to (and that still have lungworm per fecal) with ivermectin/ivermectin plus? Or would we switch to a different dewormer for them too? 

Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd treat the 2 seniors.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> I'd treat the 2 seniors.


George is 13 and Roger is 8. Roger had the second highest initial lungworm results after George so I guess it's basically like he's a senior. Frances is about to turn 10 but had much lower levels, better immune system I guess. We did hear her coughing some initially.

So if we retreat George and Roger we should use Valbazen or herbal right?

Would it make sense to retreat any of the ones that we didn't give the 30 day ivermectin dose to (and that still have lungworm per fecal) with ivermectin/ivermectin plus? Or would we switch to a different dewormer for them too?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd just do everyone you want to with the same wormer. You may as well do Valbazen or herbal this time.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Will try to correct that to 2 x a day Tylan 200 soon.

The 4 hours after antibiotics is a good time period so you can give fortified vit b complex and probiotics at the same time.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Will try to correct that to 2 x a day Tylan 200 soon.
> 
> The 4 hours after antibiotics is a good time period so you can give fortified vit b complex and probiotics at the same time.


Thank you!!

Sorry if I confused you, I started this thread 5 months ago, I just replied to it again (see the most recent reply) to give an update on the lungworm situation. George has been better for a while thankfully.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I checked the 2020 medicine cabinet and it already states 2 x a day there?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I checked the 2020 medicine cabinet and it already states 2 x a day there?


Oh my goodness, I completely forgot that when I first posted that I messaged you and asked you to change it and you did. Sorry for the confusion!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

LOL, no problem.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update, I've started Roger on the treatment dose of LOH parasite formula to get the remaining lungworms. 

George hates the herbs so I was going to use Valbazen on him. I know the dosage is 1 cc per 10 lbs, but how many times do I give it?

And how long after treatment with Valbazen should I get another Baermann fecal?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Give one dose and retest in 10 days.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Give one dose and retest in 10 days.


Okay, we gave the dose on Sunday. So it doesn't need to be repeated for lungworm? What about liver fluke?


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

How is the giatie doing now?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Tanya said:


> How is the giatie doing now?


He is acting fine, here he is now


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

21goaties said:


> Okay, we gave the dose on Sunday. So it doesn't need to be repeated for lungworm? What about liver fluke?


I would booster 3 times ten days apart to assure they get all stages. 

She looks great! Love that picture


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

What a beautiful goatie.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She is pretty.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

He's a wether lol


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