# CAE Test Help?



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

So I just got baptized into goats last winter. My boyfriend has 13 goats, 3 boer and the rest dairy. I am trying to get caught up on everything as I never had goats. These goats I am not sure if they have EVER been CAE tested as he bought half of the right when we started going out and they were very neglected. The hooved were bad and they had evidence of lacking copper.

I am going to order the needles and vacuum tubes but want to be sure I get the right stuff! I was going to buy through Jeffers pet supply if they have what I need and have a local vet show me how to draw. I am wondering if I should have CAE and possibly Johnes testing done right away. I want to order these supplies today. Thank you in advance everyone!

So I need these??

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/monoject-blood-collection-tubes

and These?

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/luer-lock-syringes-needle-box-of-100


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I like 20g needles better.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I found this and am following it right along 

http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-noodleville-how-to-goat-blood-draws.html


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

They are on their way!!!! I'mmmmm so excited!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Those are luer slip syringes, which can be used, but luer lok is better. I would get the 6cc 20ga ones. You only need 3cc blood, so don't draw out the whole syringe.


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

And make sure you got the red top tubes, not the purple top ones. I also agree that 20g and luer lok syringes are best for drawing blood.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Ok everything is her! 20 gauge needles and red topped tubes  So here are some more questions that I am sure are kinda goofy to other people. I live in Northern Minnesota and am having a harder time finding labs for what I would like to test for and when I do find one how long can blood store safely? I know I bundle them all together, padded in either fluffed newspaper or bubble wrap and in a box not an envelope.

For this time of year the temp at highest are about 75, do I need to have a clod pack in with the tubes or will they be ok? Does the lab have to be nearby or can I ship long distance safely? 

I feel like such an idiot asking these questions abut I don't want to screw anything up. Also if you can ship to just any lab what are some that you all would recommend. I'm going to be frank, these are my fiancés goats, I'm new with goats and am struggling to catch up but I am almost certain that most have never been tested for anything and so I want to cover as many bases as I can. 

With the red topped tubes what can I cover besides CAE?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Johnes and CL can also be done. I wouldn't store blood more than a few days in the refrigerator.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I thought that CL wasn't reliable in a blood test, that you would have to have someone scrape the oozing wound to get an accurate culture.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

It isn't as accurate, but it still works fairly well.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

So I need to find a lab that covers all three, are they all three red topper tube tests?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes they are.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

AWESOME!! Im so excited to get these guys tested.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

So I sent the tubes in Monday morning and overnighted them to the lab. I am dying to find out the results.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

What lab did you use? Good luck! Let us know the results


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I love using WADDL for testing, they are always super quick.

Good luck


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Omg the results are back and not good. So the goats came with the boyfriend. They are all clear of Johnes thank God but 7 of 12 are positive for CAE. Where do I start. All I can think is he'll never get rid of these goats either. Hrs already telling me it's just arthritis. I'm literally in a panic. Do I seperate the goats that are negative and test again in 30 days?? I still have to do CL testing. I want to smash my head on the wall :, ( poor goats.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

CAE can be controlled. Mainly it is spread though colostrum and milk. Make sure you know due dates and pull kids at birth.

Feed them heat treated colostrum or even better from a negative doe. Save colostrum from a negative doe to have.

I would keep negative does away from afterbirth of positive does.

Milk negative does first.

Don't share needles.

I would retest everyone to verify your results especially if any received vaccines around being tested.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I would like to separate the Negs and Pos's, he has one positive due to kid any day and 2 neg due any day. Sowe will milk the two neg does first, then the others after in separate buckets, separate feed and water hopefully too. I have a lot of work to do. I plan to retest in 30-60 dayshow fast do they take to turn a positive? I'm worried the last two dairy girls are infected just not raging infected. This is very discouraging. Mostly because I know he's not going to be on board with a management program.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Did you get a level or straight pos vs neg?

Are any of the negative does offspring of the positive does? Do you know if milk was pooled and given to all these goats as kids?

Might just be best to treat them all as positive


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

The does that at Negative, I will retest in 30-60 days and we were planning on building a new paddock on the other side of my horses anyway but not will hurry it up and get them over there. They had ranges which I want to know more about what do they mean? It reads:

Delicious-Alpine-Adult-F-50-Positive
Snow Flake- Sanaan-Adult-F-0-Negative
Stay Puff-Sanaan-Adult-F-0-Negative
Mary Anne-Nubian-Adult-F-94-Positive
Daisey-Nubian-Adult-F-93-Positive
Gretta-Nubian-Adult-F-91-Positive
Alice-Sanaan-Adult-F-90-Positive
Sally-Saneen-Adult-F-91-Positive
Boer1-Adult-F-0-Negative
Boer2-Adult-F-0-Negative
Boer3-Adult-F-0-Negative
Licky-Nubian-Adult-F-93-Positive

This is in a chart form of course but Im at work and cant download it for you to see yet.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Your 90's are definitely positive. I would retest the 50 in 60 days with the others. Sometimes stress can cause a positive result but, not as high as 90. 
I would pull the doe kids to a separate area and feed them cows milk to be sure the disease doesn't get passed on. The bucklings can be left and sold for meat at 8 to 12 weeks. 
The positive does would be milked completely separate from the negatives because I have a theory that milk droplets in the air of the milk room can pass CAE to unaffected does. The infected milk can be fed to pigs or calves that can be partially raised and sold started to make some income.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

When I retest I'll go through WADDL this time and get the CL done as well. So even the doe kids that drank the affected does milk get separated? I know he fed it to some of the lambs as well would they have the OPP version from the affected milk?


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Kids that drank affected milk are likely going to be positive. I would raise them for meat and start with fresh pulled kids next spring.

I agree on retesting the mid range positive doe. The ones in the 90's are positive...

CAE milk can go to piggies, although is supposed to be safe to drink...

I'm not sure on the lamb kids. I believe there is some evidence it can be transmitted. I would not give the milk to lambs and raise those that already got it for meat.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

So we may have a semi solution. We have two farms. He makes cheese and soap at the other farm and wants to raise a couple calves. I told him we could keep the negative does here and take the positive ones there so they can use the affected milk there. Pull babies immediately and bring them here to pasture seperately til they are old enough to test. They would get either neg milk or cow milk or formula. I want to get this straightened out.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Good thinking


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

It is done! The goats are separated!! I will be sending a retest for CL and CAE to WADDL in 30-60 days. It was kind cool, my neighbor who is a 60 yr old farmer, fairly new to goats too came over for a visit and I explained the drawing and testing. He would like me to draw his 4 goats up and send them along with mine  I am excited to help him. 

So here at my little farm we went from an over whelming 14 goats to 6. So much more peaceful when feeding and cleaning the barn.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Sounds like a great plan! Good luck to you


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I'm so sorry that some of your does tested positive. We had our first positive results this year after 7 years of negative testing and it's heartbreaking. 
I am bottle feeding all kids pasteurized milk. Unless I actually process or deliver the buck kids to the processer myself, I really don't know where they are going, or what they will be used for. If they ended up in somebody else's herd and infected them, or were just pets and came down with it and suffered as a consequence, I would feel terrible.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I know what you mean, earlier this summer Kelly had sold a few doelings and he was unfamiliar with the tests and was just going on the word of the previous owner they were clean. I'm a freak about testing and these goats came cheap so I was a little worried, that and most were very thin so I was actually really scared they had Johnes. We called the buyers and let them know of the test results, I fully expected them to be very upset and I wouldn't blame them but they (3 people) were very nice about it and thanked me. I felt terrible.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How is your management plan going? Sounds like you have really done your research and jumped in to having a well managed herd feet first.

I have been very fortunate and never had a positive CAE test in my herd but with any test that I send away to a lab, I like to have TWO positive tests, even if they are high positives, before making any decisions. I say this because labs are notorious for mixing up samples! 

How old are the CAE+ does? Any signs of detriment from the disease yet?


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

I know exactly how you feel! I tested all of my goats for the first time this year since I want to start showing and working towards a 100% ADGA registered herd. 2 of my does came back positive... 1 was still pregnant at the time, but the other had already kidded in with 2 of the negative does. I may have possibly pooled her milk and given it to every one of this year's LaManchas... Luckily the Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs kidded later in the year. But I will be retesting the entire herd, including this year's kids, as soon as the kids are old enough to test.

Both positive does are 2 years old and were purchased, not born here. One is a happy and healthy, fat little doe. The other already looks very scrawny amongst the herd of chunkers, though her fecal came back with low counts. I'm honestly not sure if she will make it through to spring before needing to be put down. Neither doe has swollen knees though.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Saltey Love, Its going great!!!! I still need to do the 30-60 day retest. The barn stays clean and neat. I have a slow feed hay bag that Hangs down in the middle of the barn for them to munch off of all day and they get their grain mixture in the evening. According to the Famacha Card everyone is Great or Good. One of the pregnant moms is very thin in my opinion but she doesn't eat much either, not interested too much in treats or anything. I have quarter horses so anything besides chunky scares me a little lol. 

The Positive does are a range of ages but yes a some show the more severe symptoms. One is arthritic with swollen front knees, but otherwise ok on the weight scale. One is a RACK of bones no matter what you feed her, needs to be put down. One is arthritic but doesn't have swollen knees. 3 appear completely fine but are a little thinner. The babies that were fed their milk, one died from it I'm sure. Her legs suddenly got really weak regardless of her good weight and appearance and she bloated after she was unable to stand or walk anymore. Very sad. 

I want to remind everyone these are my boyfriends goats and not mine. It seems after the move to separate the Negs and Pos's he doesn't do anything with the few does left here. I love the man very much but this is where we fight. I like to rotate wormers, he uses the same one everytime. I like to have free feed hay, he only gives in winter or stalled. Depending on the weight or the animal I would withhold hay if they were looking in great condition just being on pasture alone but as is they are pregnant and one is underweight so I want the extra available if she feels so inclined to eat it. I only give penicillin when recommended for abscess or otherwise encouraged from the vet. He gives it for anything and everything, birth, a scrape, a wheeze, weakness, anything. 

I'm hoping I can further improve my mini program and am always trying to learn. If I'm doing something I shouldn't please please please tell me!!!!! It all new and hopefully going to be a smooth process when I get it figured out.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Rotating wormer is actually bad. You should use the same wormer until it no longer works. But, there is no wormer that takes care of all worms. That is why a fecal is so important. You find out what parasites they have then treat appropriately. Have they been checked for coccidia by fecal?


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Just a few quick pics from yesterday


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

They're beautiful!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I've read, that because it is a neurological disease, that by the time they are showing outward symptoms, they have a lot of lesions on the brain and are already suffering.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm sure that is true. If they were my goats i would put them down but he doesn't have the same view point.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

That feed bag is extremely dangerous. Legs, horns, kids, etc can get tangled up very easily.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I'll remove it


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It just needs to raised to head level. I've used slow feed hay nets for years without any issues.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

^ good to know


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