# Thoughts on these Udders?



## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Hello. I'm looking at buying this Nigerian dwarf in milk. Attached are pics of her udder and teats. I was hoping a more experienced eye might have an opinion on them. I have pics of her dam and granddams as well if that helps. 

She is 3, giving about 5.5 cups per day. Owner asking $650. She is registered, her granddam does have production records. And LA scores EEEE 91. Is this a good investment? Thanks!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to the goat forum family! 
Her udder and teats aren't bad. Looks to need a tad more medial and forudder? But I like her.

Other things to consider as well, especially at that price, are her over all conformation, how easy she kids, ect.


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

happybleats said:


> Welcome to the goat forum family!
> Her udder and teats aren't bad. Looks to need a tad more medial and forudder? But I like her.
> 
> Other things to consider as well, especially at that price, are her over all conformation, how easy she kids, ect.


Thank you for your time! According to her owner, this was her third freshening. "She has thrown twins all three times and is a rockstar when it comes to kidding. No issues at all. " I've attached a picture of her.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

@MellonFriend @Dandy Hill Farm @Cedarwinds Farm @Jubillee


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe..shes pretty. I will step aside for those who raise nigies for show and such...I think she's beautiful.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

@FoxRidge


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Well I wasn't tagged but hopefully my opinion is still valid 😉 I actually think she looks pretty nice. Teats look like a nice size. Medial is decent, lateral attachments look pretty good. Hard to tell on the foreudder from that angle. I'd like to see a little wider rear udder arch but she's honestly not bad in that department either. I'd like to see her teats a little more towards the center, but with an udder like that and the wide set of her rear legs, I don't think her test spacing is going to give you issues when milking.
The doe herself looks nice too, I like her length of body, straight topline, brisket extension, and long neck. Her rump is a little short and steep. I'm a little surprised she doesn't have more depth for being a 3rd freshener, but she could be a young 3rd freshener, or from lines that are slower to mature. Overall, she looks like a nice solid little doe, and I'd be happy to have that udder in my herd. 

As for the price, that depends on what goats are selling for in your area. Also her bloodlines. $650 is a reasonable price for a nice doe in my area, but for that price I'd want to see production records and appraisal scores from her dam and sire's dam, not just her grand dam. Unless she was from lines I knew well and knew would produce. Also make sure the seller tests for CAE, CL, and Johne's.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

PoplarCreek said:


> Hello. I'm looking at buying this Nigerian dwarf in milk. Attached are pics of her udder and teats. I was hoping a more experienced eye might have an opinion on them. I have pics of her dam and granddams as well if that helps.
> 
> She is 3, giving about 5.5 cups per day. Owner asking $650. She is registered, her granddam does have production records. And LA scores EEEE 91. Is this a good investment? Thanks!



I'm not a pro by any means but this is a pretty nice udder. I wouldn't go any wider apart on teats. Be aware of that when you breed her, if the buck's family has wide set teats you may get a kiddo with wide spread teats that pop outward which is not what you want but if the buck has more center set teats this is a very lovely udder <3 decent attachment and a lovely medial.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Calistar said:


> Well I wasn't tagged but hopefully my opinion is still valid 😉 I actually think she looks pretty nice. Teats look like a nice size. Medial is decent, lateral attachments look pretty good. Hard to tell on the foreudder from that angle. I'd like to see a little wider rear udder arch but she's honestly not bad in that department either. I'd like to see her teats a little more towards the center, but with an udder like that and the wide set of her rear legs, I don't think her test spacing is going to give you issues when milking.
> The doe herself looks nice too, I like her length of body, straight topline, brisket extension, and long neck. Her rump is a little short and steep. I'm a little surprised she doesn't have more depth for being a 3rd freshener, but she could be a young 3rd freshener, or from lines that are slower to mature. Overall, she looks like a nice solid little doe, and I'd be happy to have that udder in my herd.
> 
> As for the price, that depends on what goats are selling for in your area. Also her bloodlines. $650 is a reasonable price for a nice doe in my area, but for that price I'd want to see production records and appraisal scores from her dam and sire's dam, not just her grand dam. Unless she was from lines I knew well and knew would produce. Also make sure the seller tests for CAE, CL, and Johne's.



I agree, I would expect a loaded pedigree at that price, DHIR and LA's or SG's. Unless she herself has accomplishments, it is a bit high but it is still a nice udder <3


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

If tested, $650 is a bargain in my area, the udder is nice, but needs a bit more lateral attachments and better teat placement. Capacity looks good, and her topline is very nice. Paired with the right buck, she would be a keeper in my barn.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Calistar said:


> Well I wasn't tagged but hopefully my opinion is still valid


I was trying to tag you Calistar, but for the life of me I couldn’t remember your username!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I don't know much about Nigerians, but she looks like a pretty good little doe to me. The thing I always look at with the Nigerians is the length of their teats and would I be able to hand milk them.


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Thank you so much everyone! What an amazing resource!! I have asked for production records and appraisal scores from her dam and sire's dam and will see what I get. This is her granddams info: Goat Detail: ZANZABEEZ ARROYO SECO - D001622651 (PB Doe SGCH)


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Grandam.....is pretty far out.... do they do LA or test?


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Her dam has not been appraised. This is her sires dam’s info. Her LA score is EEEE91 as a 6 year old.
Goat Detail: ZANZABEEZ ARROYO SECO - D001622651 (PB Doe SGCH)


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

What's the doe's registered name, is she on ADGA genetics? Sire's dam looks very nice. Her appraisal score is excellent. She did get coded for a high dorsal process, but that is not as important (to me) as other things. Looking at the numbers only, she looks to have an excellent udder. Her production is only okay. She had a pretty good 6th lactation but the others were not noteworthy. That said, she's not the goat you're buying, and you already have sort of an idea of production on the doe you're considering.


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Hi! Her name is Chatterbox R Wild Indigo. I am having trouble getting logged onto ADGA to look her up.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Here is her link





Goat Detail: CHATTERBOX R WILD INDIGO - D001947185 (PB Doe)







www.adgagenetics.org





Doesn't look like she or her dam have records on CDCB. Her sire's progeny does not either. 

Her udder is a pretty nice udder. I'd want more width in the top and teats brought in as others said. She has pretty good conformation, could use a little more blending at the shoulders and a bit more length in the rump but has a lovely topline and general appearance.

I agree with the others, at that price, I'd like to have parents' records and appraisals and such. There should be a line of proven animals when you get to that price. IMO. But she is a lovely doe and would be a fantastic buy I think.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Also is that a current pic of her? It looks younger than 3...maybe not?


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Welcome to The Goat Spot!

I agree with what everyone else has said and I don't think there it much more for me to add. But I will say, that I really do love her general appearance, I think she is very nice to look at and she definitely caught my eye! Her udder is pretty nice and the others have already pointed out the pros and cons. I think her teats look like they would make hand milking very easy. Her sire's dam is awesome and the doe herself does have a lot of very well known herd names in her pedigree. 5.5 cups per day for an 3F isn't too much, are they only milking once a day? Or is that how much they get each milking when milking twice a day?

If you really like her, but think she is priced too high, I would definitely ask if they would be willing to back down on the price a bit. Who knows, they very well might be willing to do that. It never huts to ask. 😉😊


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Thzn


Jubillee said:


> Here is her link
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help! I asked for a small reduction in price because of lack of appraisal scores, we will see!


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Welcome to The Goat Spot!
> 
> I agree with what everyone else has said and I don't think there it much more for me to add. But I will say, that I really do love her general appearance, I think she is very nice to look at and she definitely caught my eye! Her udder is pretty nice and the others have already pointed out the pros and cons. I think her teats look like they would make hand milking very easy. Her sire's dam is awesome and the doe herself does have a lot of very well known herd names in her pedigree. 5.5 cups per day for an 3F isn't too much, are they only milking once a day? Or is that how much they get each milking when milking twice a day?
> 
> If you really like her, but think she is priced too high, I would definitely ask if they would be willing to back down on the price a bit. Who knows, they very well might be willing to do that. It never huts to ask. 😉😊


Thank you for the welcome and your help! That is milking 2x a day. How much should a well pedigreed dairy ND give as a 3rd freshener?


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I raise Nubians/Mini-Nubians so I'm not familiar with ND amounts. But also, how far along is she in her lactation? If she's quite a few months into it, she could be winding down. That would also make her udder less fuller up top. 

I also wanted to say she has some nice-sized teats for an ND!


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Jubillee said:


> I raise Nubians/Mini-Nubians so I'm not familiar with ND amounts. But also, how far along is she in her lactation? If she's quite a few months into it, she could be winding down. That would also make her udder less fuller up top.
> 
> I also wanted to say she has some nice-sized teats for an ND!


She kidded 12/13, so pretty early in.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

PoplarCreek said:


> Thank you for the welcome and your help! That is milking 2x a day. How much should a well pedigreed dairy ND give as a 3rd freshener?


You're welcome!
Well, it really depends on the individual doe and her genetics, but I honestly (and personally) would expect her to be producing more. For a bit of comparison, my half Pgymy, half ND doe was producing 1/2 gal per day (2x milking) as an FF. And my full ND was producing 5.5 - 6 cups per day (2x a day milking) as an FF. My ND comes from nice lines and I feel like I got very lucky with half Pgymy doe. I'm expecting both of my girls' production to improve with more freshenings.

With her so early in her lactation, it might just take her a little longer to reach her full production though.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Hm, yeah, there's really not much data in her pedigree at all besides that grand dam! I know Kyeema Ridge and Zanzabeez are supposed to be decent herds but I think they're back East so I don't have any experience with them. I think she is priced high for the lack of accolades in her pedigree, but she does look like a nice doe, so if you can afford her then go for it 😊 

As far as milk production, I've been on DHI for a couple of years now so I'm in the "lbs" mindset instead of the "cups" mindset lol. But 5.5 isn't bad for a nigerian, especially if she's on once a day milking. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs so I imagine a gallon of milk would be pretty close to that. There are 16 cups in a gallon, which means each cup weighs 0.5 lbs. So 5.5 cups = roughly 2.75 lbs. (I think. It's early and I'm not through my cup of coffee yet 😋) 2.75 lbs is certainly nothing to write home about, but it all depends on her stage of lactation too, and it could be worse. As a point of reference, my best doe this year had a high of 5.1 early in her lactation and dropped down to 2.5 by her last test at 269 days fresh. She ended up producing 970 lbs this year. My second best doe had a single this year and her production really suffered, BUT she was incredibly consistent. She was in milk almost the entire 305 days, and her high was 2.8 and her low was 2.3. She ended up finishing at 720 lbs. And to further put things in perspective, for a milk star in volume, a doe needs to produce between 600-690 lbs of milk depending on her age, although the milk star requirements are below breed average. And the Top 10 milkers are milking in the 1,500-1,800 lb or so range.

All that aside, you most likely don't need a Top 10 milker, and if you're just wanting a solid doe to breed and provide milk for you and your family, she seems like she'd fit the bill.


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Thanks everyone for their help and expertise, I really appreciate it! I ended up buying the doe for $600. She is very sweet on the milk stand which is a welcome relief from my first freshener who wants to buck or sit down the whole time! I am a newbie myself (been milking goats for almost two weeks! lol), I am having a difficult time between the two does as my 1st freshener has really small teats and this new doe has very large teats. It is such a difference! It is taking me a long time to get the milk flow going with the larger teats. Any reason why this would be happening? I am having a really hard time to get the milk out initially and then it is taking me about an hour to milk her. I am trying to milk her as instructed, any advise or ideas of why this may be happening? Thanks!


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

She is very pretty and congratulations! I have a doe with giant teats and I find it easier to not grab her whole teat. I will grab about the bottom half of the teat to get the milk flowing and then once I have milked her out a bit I can grab more of the teat. Does the milk come out in a good stream when you do get it going? Does her udder seem hard or is it that the milk doesn't want to come out of the orifice? She may just have small teat orifices.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Since it looks like she may have a little bit wider teats, you may not be getting the top pinched off all the way before squeezing the milk out the bottom. When that happens, the milk just shoots right back up into the udder.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Congratulations on the new addition!!! It can be tricky getting into the rhythm of milking does with dramatically different teats. Are you bumping/massaging the udder when you first start milking? That helps with milk let down quite a bit.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

So you are still learning to milk in general? I agree that you may not be pinching the top off high enough. It took me a while to really get the hang of milking when I started, my husband got it quick and he'd often have to milk for me as it would take forever for me to do it lol. 

I imagine her teats are like my 50/50 mini-Nubian judging by the picture. So they shouldn't be too big for your hands and yea, so much better than tiny ND teats! I'd start by massaging her and washing with warm water just for her to be comfortable and let down. You are going to have to reach up higher, just above where the teat meets the udder. I kind of lightly bump (it's like one fluid motion for me) to fill the teat and then close off and use the other fingers to bring it down the teat. Open fingers lightly bump and repeat. Once it clicks you are golden...you don't really forget.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

When we had teeny ND teats like that, I was milking with 2 fingers basically, so now, you'll have to milk with your hands vs fingers...if that makes sense.


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## PoplarCreek (Jan 10, 2022)

Milking the new doe is going better now, thanks for all the advice!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good work. 👍


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

Nice sized teats are wonderful, but I find a nice open orifice the most important thing for me. As you milk more, you'll get faster. 

Also, for those asking about Zanzabeez, she breeds lovely goats. She doesn't use the performance programs. I have a Zanzabeez buck, and his daughters milk and appraise well, and Tracy is honest in her dealings. I live in Arizona, but I know people across the country with her animals.


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