# Sudden change in milk taste, 3 weeks fresh, NOT mastitis - ??



## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

My doe is a second freshener, 3 weeks fresh now. I just started locking up her kids at night and milking in the morning. For the first two days the milk was just delicious -- even better than we had remembered from last summer. Even my skeptical kids raved. Then yesterday and today it is not very good. It's okay at first, but then has a bitter aftertaste at the end. My first thought was mastitis, but she has no blood, clumps, or strings, her udder feels fine, and the detergent test was clear. Could it possibly be colostrum still? Why would it be fine for a couple of days and then suddenly change? There has been no change in her diet or the milk handling. I tasted it warm straight from the goat this morning and the bitter aftertaste was there already. If it's colostrum I wouldn't mind just giving her another week before milking, but the fact that it changed so much in a day seems odd. Any idea? I was so happy to have my children finally enthusiastic about goat milk and now I don't want them to change their minds!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Has she eaten anything differently? Maybe a new plant popped up?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Any feed changes or even any strong odors in the air can affect milk... I personally would advise on getting a CMT....California Mastitis Test, simply because I too have used the detergent test with a doe to have it tell me mastitis isn't the issue BUT with the CMT she did test positive.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

To Goats Rock -- No, I don't think so. They are kept in a big pen, not on pasture, so it's easy to tell if anything new appears!

Liz, wouldn't I see some other symptom if it's mastitis? There's really nothing else at all, and she's acting fine.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

It could be sub clinical mastitis...also when was she last copper bolused and dewormed?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Post # 140 in this thread is all the questions I could come up with in my search for good milk...http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f183/milk-tastes-bitter-salty-148778/index14.html


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Most of the time when mastitis is suspect it's because there are flakes, clots or specs seen in the filter but if this just suddenly started, you notice a change in flavor before any physical signs are shown.

In a book I have, Goats Produce Too.... Bitter milk is said to be caused by strong feeds or weeds, milk from a doe in late lactation or from milk that is held too long in the fridge, bacteria present in all raw milk can cause flavor changes if held to long at a low temp.
Also... any residue from cleaning her teats, milking supplies , your hands etc can cross contaminate milk. Using a strong disinfectant can cause this.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

Hmmm. She was dewormed the day after kidding, and she's getting a decent mineral (Onyx Right Now) with a high copper content. I haven't bolused b/c I don't want to overdose her and I know the Onyx is pretty good. None of the dairy goat people I know in my area copper bolus (including the commercial dairies), they just use a good mineral. We've had no other change in feed, etc. Maybe a stray weed in the hay? But it's the same hay we've had for months.

Also, I did dose her with Selenium/Vit E gel 3 weeks before kidding.

To clarify, the milk is not salty, it just has a bitter aftertaste. I'm thinking maybe I'll stop milking for a few days and try again. If it's colostrum, that will give it more time to clear out, and if it's subclinical mastitis, the kids nursing all the time and keeping her udder empty should help that too, right?


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

I will say, I have been worried about possible copper deficiency in both my does. The black one (who I am not milking yet) looks quite rusty, and the Alpine with the iffy milk has some bare patches on her face. No fishtails, though, and their eyelids and general condition look fine. I discovered they were NOT eating their Manna Pro goat mineral at all. I special ordered some Cargil Onyx and they've been on it for 1 1/2 weeks now. They do seem to be eating that, especially the Alpine, who likes it a lot. Do you think I need to copper bolus in addition, or just wait a little longer to see if the Onyx does the job? How long should it take?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The copper boluses are slow release so they are pretty safe. You could even give half a dose or something. It will take weeks for the new mineral to show an effect on the animals.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

This is a guess, but, if they were not eating the old minerals and now are, would that cause the aftertaste? 
Maybe it took a week or so to cycle through her body?


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

I did think of that -- but everything I've read says that good minerals will improve the taste, not the opposite! I'm hoping that instead she is copper deficient from not eating the old mineral, and it just hasn't been enough time yet for the new one to "kick in". I've heard it can take 3 weeks or so for a copper bolus to really show a difference, so maybe it will take the mineral that long too.

I just hope that really is the problem with her milk, not something else!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It will probably take longer on just the mineral to make a difference.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

The rusty color on your black doe, that is my #1 sign to copper bolus if I haven't done so already.... Just an FYI. I use the right now onyx too, and still have to copper bolus every 3-4 months...


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

Well, I need to place an order with Jeffers anyway, and you all have convinced me to give the Copasure a shot. Maybe that will help.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

Still trying to get to the bottom of this. I copper bolused on Thursday, so I am hopeful that in a couple of weeks I might see some improvement. I did hear one interesting theory re: their mineral intake. Since they are copper deficient and had not been eating the old mineral at all, perhaps once I finally put out a mineral they DO like (the Onyx), they are eating more of it to get the copper and at the same time getting quite a bit more salt, which could affect the milk flavor. Does this make sense to anyone else? In that case I would assume that once the bolus starts to kick in they will back off the loose mineral.

I talked to the only local goat vet today, who is really a specialist in dairy cattle but sees goats too. He thought the culprit might be the handful of black oil sunflower seeds they get each day. Something about the way the rumen processes vegetable fats and how it affects butterfat in the milk. Of course the reason I had been giving them in the first place was because I had heard exactly the opposite somewhere else, and last summer when her milk tasted good she was getting them too, although not as many. I'm going to drop them for now and see if it helps too. He didn't think mastitis was the culprit.

If anyone else has ideas I am eager to hear them!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Is there any chance she went into heat? I know that can change the flavor of the milk. Three weeks would be super soon after giving birth, but I bet it's not totally impossible.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

No, no heat cycle. I'm going to try again this week and see if the copper bolus is starting to have any effect.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

An update - I copper bolused 2 weeks ago and I think the bitter taste is subsiding a bit, although it is still there. I am still having to mix the milk with cow's milk for the kids to drink it, so we're not where I want to be yet. Just this week I started milking our second doe, and while her milk is much better, it also has just a hint of that bitterness. At least that helps me to remove mastitis from the list of possible causes. Now I'm down to minerals or hay. Is it possible that the Onyx could cause the milk to taste worse rather than better? It's the only thing I can think of has changed. Other than that, maybe I just need to wait longer for the bolus to make a difference....


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

It takes the boluses about 4 weeks to take full effect.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

That gives me some hope! I'll be weaning the kids in two weeks. That will be a month post-bolus. Once I take away the boys we'll be awash in milk, so I REALLY hope it gets back to normal by then.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Any change in the milk flavour yet?


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

Dayna, I think the flavor is a bit better, but I'm still having to add cow's milk to dilute the remaining bitterness. It's been almost 3 weeks since I bolused, but if it's not gone in another week I'm not sure what to do. I may go ahead and treat for subclinical mastitis, which I really do NOT want to do, but I am getting desperate! It's so frustrating, it's my first spring freshening and it's so exciting to be getting so much milk, and so discouraging to have it be sub-par when I know from last summer how good it SHOULD be!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

The only time my goats milk was bitter was when she was in heat. So this is stumping me. I guess it won't hurt to treat for mastitis. I wouldn't give up though. If nothing else it's good for her to be milked and be in the routine while you figure it out.

I'm so sorry you are disappointed! I know how much work a milk goat is as I've got two in milk right now.


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

When my milk had that bitter after taste- I added baking soda free choice- milk was better in 24 hours.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

They always have free choice baking soda out, so it's not that either. I really wish I could get to the bottom of this!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you read through the post from NyGoatMom? There are a ton of suggestions there.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

Oh yes, I read every post on that thread! And every other thread on the subject I can find. That's why I'm still holding out hope it's copper, I've run through all the other options except subclinical mastitis, and my initial test for that is negative too.

I will say my black doe, whose milk had just a hint of the bitterness, has now lost that althogether post-bolus and her milk is now sweet and good. I wonder if it's because she crunched her bolus -- maybe she got a higher immediate dose? She crunched it pretty good, it had to have been pretty pulverized. My other doe got it down whole so maybe it will take longer yet, although it's been 3 weeks today....


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

My goats always chew the copper, still seems to work. Have you tried Raw Apple Cider Vinegar (with the Mother) in the water? That is supposed to help with a lot of issues. I add it to mine all the time, they love it, and it is supposed to reduce the somatic cell count in the milk which in turn help them to NOT get mastitis. This came from a 100 plus goat dairy, last year they had no mastitis the entire year. I think that is amazing. I have read a lot about it used in animal (and people) water and seems to be a healthy thing to do for most creatures. Maybe it would help the milk for you, worth a try.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

VICTORY!! It's been 4 weeks today since I bolused, and two days ago I forgot to add cow's milk to the goat milk. The kids didn't even notice -- they said the milk tasted great! No bitterness left at all. I'm so happy - and relieved - that the copper took care of the problem. From now on I plan to bolus every 6 months like clockwork.

Thanks to you all for your suggestions!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad the copper worked for you.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yay! Glad it worked;-)


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