# Pepper and Indy..



## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

I had a very long, difficult, and rather upsetting morning I'm afraid..

Last night Pepper had me concerned. She had progressed to amber and blood tinged discharge with no other signs of labor. Thanks to Jena's advice, I got her up and had a look. I thought her cervix was open but on closer look, it was just ope...n a finger's width, so I let her be for now.

Early this morning she finally started to labor. After a little bit I knew something wasn't right so I went in and pulled the first kid. It was positioned wrong and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't straighten him out. Black and white, moonspotted buckling. I think blue eyes. I thought for sure he was dead but he started breathing so I cleaned him off.

Pepper just laid there and finally I fished the second kid out, a buckskin blue eyed doeling. Very tiny.

The third kid was stillborn, black and white buckling.

Pepper showed no interest in her kids and had no udder at all. I was able to get a bare squeeze from each, so I warmed up the frozen colostrum I had and was syringing it to the tiny boy when hubby tells me, Indy is kidding.

I go to Indy, who pushes out two HUGE bucklings. One buckskin, blue eyes, and one dark colored with maybe a moonspot? Hard to tell.

I bundled up Pepper's buckling and took him inside, and then took a chance and gave Indy the doeling. Indy started licking her and then the doeling got up and nursed. She's TINY compared to Indy's bucklings but I think she may have a chance.

I hit Pepper with power punch, red cell, selenium gel, and an antibiotic. She was starting to pass the afterbirth so I am hoping she pulls through this. She is eating and drinking and her color is good, but she and her babies need some jingles. I don't think the buckling will make it.









Pepper's buckling...he's very weak. He probably will not make it but I am trying everything for him.









Pepper's doeling. Beautiful little girl...she got to her feet and nursed from Indy who adopted her. I think she has a slim shot. Will be supplementing her.









Crappy pic of Indy's boys..will get more later when I'm not so exhausted.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Well Congratulations on the fast work. I am so sorry the one was still born, but that does happen.

I have had does deliver with NOn MILK like you said, but I gave them LOTS of warm to Hot molasses water, and then boom they have a bag.

Do you have Nutri drench? That is sommething I keep on hand all the time. I would give 2 cc if you have it. 

Something else you could do is mix strong coffee, whiskey and Karo syrup together (2 cc each about). Make sure it is warm, it will give them a liitle extra energy, but forsure they need the colostrum if possible, Thank good ness you have some frozen.

Keep us posted. They are adorable and I will be pulling for you.


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## dtincoelemari (Nov 16, 2010)

:sigh: sorry about the lost buckling... :hug: 
Congrats on the other kids and I am praying everything turns out for the best for these little guys ray: I sure hope you get some good rest too because from the sound of things they are sure going to need you. And Such a good momma of indy to take over with pepper's little girl!!


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Congrats on the new kids... they are so pretty.  Hoping that little buckling pulls through for you! ray: :hug: 
There is still a good chance that Pepper will bag up for her buckling and be able to nurse him.... I'd give her a nice warm oatmeal mash with some crushed tums mixed inside.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

I've done just about all of the above advice (been keeping people updated via my FB). The buckling is very weak and I'm doing what I can for him. The doeling is nursing from Indy and I will supplement her, because Indy's boys are big. 

Pepper is not doing so well. I am worried about retained placenta and bleeding. It was a very harsh birth. I've gotten a lot of things down her and her color is good and she will eat and drink, but still...I don't know.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Adorable kids! I am praying that they will all pull through!


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## jduwall (Aug 7, 2009)

wow what a rough day. you handled it great, so sorry about the loss...that sucks..

very thankful that the doe took the other baby, what a good mommy. I wll keep you in my prayers.... ray:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Oh yes I am VERY grateful for Indy...she is taking good care of the tiny girl. I have them penned up for now until the babies get stronger. 

I may lose Pepper...while she is eating/drinking and I have done everything in my power than I can do, I am afraid I hurt her while pulling those babies (they were positioned badly) and that she may have retained placenta. I separated her as well, and let her older daughter stay with her.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

give pepper a shot of LA200. I've saved a doe with a retained placenta that way. a BIG dose split up 1/2 on each back leg IM

:hug:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Thank you Alaska


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would also give Oxey if you have it.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh my, what a rough day you and your girls have had :hug: 

I'm sure that Indy will do very well with the doeling...very pretty kids from both girls too.

Keep your chin up, Pepper eating and drinking is a very good sign, do what others have said, give her plenty warm molasses water and Nutri Drench, she's sore and exhausted...don't expect her to want to stand for a few hours. You did well by going in after those kids, the buckling may be ok, keep him warm and stimulated, giving him that "perk up mixture" may help too, he could have been very stressed by the position he was in.

Pepper having good color is also a great sign, as long as her lids stay pink, she's not hemmorhaging. I assisted with a twisted up kid with my buddy Steph's doe Lily back in March, first kid came fine..big boy, 2nd was upside down head back..very difficult position to try and figure out. Lily was a trooper though, got that baby out and she was the first baby I ever had to recuscitate with mouth to nose, kids did well though the doeling did end up in the house for a few hours to warm up...Lily was given Banamine as well as ND and molasses water. I think that Pepper will recover with your attentive TLC...She's just wore out. :hug: Prayers sent for the 4 of you...mama, twins and yourself :hug:


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

the fact that Pepper is eating is a very good sign -- a little hand milking will help with contractions... also Banamine can increase bleeding. expect her to be sore for a few days, but so far so good. have you tried tubing the baby b uck?


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

The buckling will swallow if I syringe feed him. But he cannot hold up his own head still, despite all I've done. If he doesn't improve..I may put him down. I don't want him to suffer. 

Pepper is sleeping now. I drenched her again and let her be...I am praying she is just horribly sore and doesn't want to get up because of that. I can't blame her in the least, I'd be sore too.

Will update tomorrow. I pray they will be good updates but am afraid they might be bad ones.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

My doe Poppy was REALLY sick last year when she delivered her triplets (one was a stillborn) She was shaking all over, couldn't regualte her body temp. wasn't drinking or eating.... I was TERRIFIED that I was going to lose her. But she still kissed and talked quietly to her babies. I gave her 5cc's of Bio mycin for 5 days. Right after she kid I dosed her with 12cc's of Goatade, and I made her a warm mash (ready made oatmeal "maple and brown sugar" cooked, mixed with some sweet feed and 4 crushed up tums mixed in) she LOVED it. She wouldn't eat any hay.... any other grain or feed...but she'd eat that. Soooo the next morning I mixed in about a cup of alfalfa pellets with the same mash combo (except only 2 tums this time) and she ate a little more than half... I had to keep her blanketed every night for about 1 week but slowly she started getting better. 

I think your girl is just wore out.... she's hurting and just doesn't have the motivation to move around but ray: ray: she WILL get better. You may want to try the mash.... I'm telling you that thing was miraculous in perking up my doe.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Thank you myfainters, I will try oatmeal. I can't believe I didn't think of that earlier. I always have oatmeal in the house.

I've got her under a ceramic heat emitter and with Juliet. She's still holding on but she's really not feeling well. I am praying she makes it through the night


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

I have faith!
I will be praying she makes it! I really hope she does, so sorry your dealing with this, I JUST dealed with this same thing


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

It sounds like the little guy just might need to eb tube fed to get some food in him, and warm him with it. DOn't give up on him. 

Keep up the good work. Give Pepper any of her favorite treats. That helps also. 

Keep us posted. I will be praying for you and all them. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Praying for your babies...... how are things today? :hug: ray:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Sorry guys...wish I had better news. Pepper didn't make it through the night, and neither did either of her kids. And what's worse, I found my friend's buck that lives here had passed away in the night as well, for no apparent reason. I am absolutely crushed and destroyed. I will probably be cutting down my herd to just my favorites. I am sick to my stomach beyond belief and I cannot do this.


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## Hidden Waters Farm (Oct 3, 2010)

Im sorry for your losses! I seemed like they were doing better to me, And then the buck dies. Is Cocci at all possible?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so very sorry :hug: Words truly cannot express the heaviness in my heart that I feel for you :sigh: 

How is Indy and her babies? Any sign that Hope will be delivering soon?

We all have gonne through this...or similar situations, I have and I wanted to do as you are now thinking, it hurts, I know...there was nothing that you did wrong, it took me a very long time to realize that these things happen. :hug:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Indy's boys seem to be doing well, and Hope is her normal self. She still has her ligaments, but a nice big udder.

I can't imagine what happened to the buck...he showed no signs of anything amiss during feeding last evening. Silent pneumonia maybe..?


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

sooooo sorry! i can only imagine the pain you feel right now. how heart-breaking! :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

the night is always darkest just before the dawn


Sorry :hug: !!! You tried very hard. don't give up


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

OH NO! I'm so sorry! :tears: BIG :hug: 

I know it probably doesn't help to hear it right now....but we do all go through this at one point.  I hope that you feel better soon. :hug: I know it is really hard to deal with the loss of your goaties.... but it will get better. Hopefully Hope gives you some sweet little doelings soon so you will at least have a good distraction.


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## helmstead (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh, dear...so very sorry! <hugs>


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I 100% agree with Jess. It happens to everyone who raises goats....you just have to think positive...it will get better as time goes by.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm so sorry about your Pepper and the rest of them. I haven't had anything like that happen to me yet, and I will probably feel like you do when it does. I hope you will stay here with us and keep talking, even though you cut your herd down. And I hope your health improves. In time it will get better.

Jan


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I've posted some updates on my decision to cut down on Goat Frenzy. I know things will get better and I'm hoping my Hopie gives me a pretty girl to heal my heart. 

With less goats, and only goats I can handle super easily (some are still very wild), and just does here, I think it will be easier for me to keep tabs on everyone and no one will suffer because I don't notice something due to a large number.


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## DebMc (Dec 11, 2009)

You shouldn't take it so personally. Stuff happens. And sometimes it's out of our control. The greater # of animals one has, the greater chance of something going amiss. With Pepper and kids, you did all you knew how and it sounds like you gave it your best shot. That's what matters! 

I am so sorry for your loss. :rose: 

Deb Mc


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks everyone


 NP :hug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

We are here for you. Just remember that. Also remember you are not alone. We all have had troubles, and wanted to sell, but you have to do what is best for you. :hug: We are here whatever you decide.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Thanks all. I've been talking with my friend and it looks like Blizzard will be coming home. I will be helping her pay for another Nubian buck instead. Indy will be going back to her I think after her kids are weaned, I will probably still sell the Nubians (or at least have them listed for sale) and keep Cinder. Tornado is up in the air. He will probably end up staying, I don't want Blizz to be alone after all.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Even though the buck was in your care, if he was doing fine and suddenly he just wasn't, why do you have to help pay for anouther buck? Sorry I know it's your friend, and you feel responsible, but I dunno.... It's nice if you offered to do it, but animals die for all sorts of reasons, they get sick and give us a warning, or sometimes they just drop dead without any indication something is wrong. If he was acting fine, looked fine, eating fine, I just don't see how this is your fault and you'd have to lose more $$ helping to replace him. This could have happened at your friends place just as easy. 
I know it's your friend, and again fine if you offered to help, but I just don't see how it's your fault and that you 'have' to help pay for another buck. 

I hope all is well your way, and that your goaties/kids are doing fine.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

I'm sure I don't *have* to help replace him, but I offered and want too. I feel responsible and there may have been something I missed. There also might not have been. But still...she just got him and I know it had to be a huge disappointment for her. 

It's sort of complicated how I felt about the whole thing, hard to put into words!


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