# Kidding information..



## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

I have two young doelings that are either a month or under a month old. I want to make cheese, ice cream, soap, yogurt, and get milk in general. I've searched the web for answers but no one plainly puts it! It's so hard to get all the questions answered :? 

Anyways, one doe is a Nubian (2 1/2 weeks old) and the other is a Boer X (5 weeks old)(I think with Oberhasli). I've heard that Nubians can be bred at 8 months/70 pounds. Is this true?

About the Boer, since she is crossed with Oberhasli, what weight or age can I breed her at? Will her milk production be better than a regular Boer's? Or should I not even breed her due to a low milk production? She's absolutely gorgeous and I'm positive she would throw excellent kids. 


Opinions please.


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

Yes 8 months and 75-80 lbs for the nubian I think its the same for your boer-x. someone will jump in in a sec


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I usually like to breed kids when they are around 80-90 lbs and only if they are steady growers. For your Ober cross, breed her as late and as big as you possibly can, and on her first time breed her to a buck that will produce smaller kids. Obers tend to have narrow birth canals.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

goathappy said:


> I usually like to breed kids when they are around 80-90 lbs and only if they are steady growers. For your Ober cross, breed her as late and as big as you possibly can, and on her first time breed her to a buck that will produce smaller kids. Obers tend to have narrow birth canals.


She seems more boer than anything else. The only sign on Ober in her is her ears. She's already quite big, which is great. Thanks for the advice, from both of you.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

My honours supervisor did some research on this and concluded that does should be bred for the first time at 30kg, with 25kg the absolute minimum.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

66lbs ? that seems kind of small :shrug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow ...that is small..... Myself ....I usually breed at 1 to 1 1/2 years old ....at minimum..that way ...they will have alot of growth on... and will be mature enough for mothering...If you breed them... to small and/or to young ...there growth may be stunted.....this is my opinion.... :wink:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Its lighter than most people breed them, but then again most people breed them too old, and lose profitability. But then again for a lot of people they are just a hobby not a business. I personally like to breed at 35 to 40kg. Just for a bit of extra breathing space.

Last year I bred my maiden boers at 7 mths, they kidded at 12 mths. But they reached 30kg at 4 mths, only reason I didnt breed them then was the kids would have dropped in the middle of winter. not good lol They grew out just fine, in fact Pam you have admired two of them on several occasions.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> in fact Pam you have admired two of them on several occasions.


 I did keren?.....Oh boy....I still do not like to breed that young .. :wink: ....but hey.... we all do things differently... it seemed to work out for you...if I am thinking of the same goaties you showed me........I still stick to my old guns on breeding them... minimum of 1 year for my own sanity....LOL ....but whatever works for you ...I respect that...... :wink: :greengrin:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

These are the girls you have seen before. Though it just occurred to me that you commented on them BEFORE they kidded at 12 mths, so yeah, my point didnt quite work. But I'll get new photos when it stops raining and I think you will like them just as well.  Okay, so some people might say that I had problems because I bred them too young, Calamity's kids were ethiopians and Charlotte had to have a caesar. But Calamity had a retained placenta and Charlotte's kids were malpresented, and I honestly dont think that can be attributed to them being joined young; at any age that can happen. I've had it with much older maidens, and older experienced does too. But you can see that Charlotte did a good job on that buck I posted the other day, and she did a good job with the other one too.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'll make my decision when I am extremely happy with her weight, age, and health put together. :wink: 

How fast do Nubians and Boers mature? I've heard that Nubians are a little slower while Boers grow quickly.

Keren: I love those lovely ladies you have there. I'm looking forward to updated pictures.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

bump* 

Question in my last post.


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

Well I havent got any Boers. But I have got half a nubian :ROFL: and she matured very early - I could've bred her in her first year but I didnt like to. So now she's MAAAAAAAAAAASSIIIIVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :greengrin: 

LW


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

lesserweevil said:


> Well I havent got any Boers. But I have got half a nubian :ROFL: and she matured very early - I could've bred her in her first year but I didnt like to. So now she's MAAAAAAAAAAASSIIIIVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :greengrin:
> 
> LW


I've only seen a few Boers and they weren't what I thought "big" I just thought very strong build, stocky and heavy. Not like tall or anything like I though. Idk though.  I hope she will mature quickly. She's crossed with Ober.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

depends upon the lines they come from. But I would say that they grow at the same rate.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> How fast do Nubians and Boers mature? I've heard that Nubians are a little slower while Boers grow quickly.


 When we had the nubian/boer crosses and the FB together...the odd thing was ...yes ...the crosses did grow at a little faster rate ...then the boers....I think it is because ...they are more leggy tall ...than the boers are..... :wink: Hope I answered your question for you..... :greengrin:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Also Pam, you've got the heterosis in the boer/nubian ...


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

the which?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

the boer cross nubian has increased _heterosis_, also termed _hybrid vigour_ or _outbreeding enhancement_. Its the opposite of _inbreeding depression._

Basically it means that the crossbred offspring displays greater size, faster growth rate, higher fertility and better yield than their purebred parents. In Pam's case, NubianxBoer kids grew at a faster rate than FB boer kids, because the xb kids had the heterosis advantage.

You get very good heterosis in the first cross of two different breeds. You get maximum heterosis if you take those offspring and cross them to a third different breed. After that it goes down because you start getting them too mutty.

Basically, its the reason why crossbred cattle are so popular - for example the Angus x Hereford "Black Baldie".

In my experience, the heterosis advantage is seen more dramatically in cattle than in goats.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Does this apply to all crosses or just boer crosses? She is crossed with ober. But I'm not sure of their development rate. Thanks for the information, its interesting.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yes, you will get heterosis with any cross, but maximum between different types eg. a meat type cross dairy type (for example boerxnubian or boerxober). You do still get heterosis in within type crosses, eg. milk type cross milk type (eg saanenxnubian, saanenxalpine, boerxmyotonic, boerxspanish). With the milk ones, your heterosis will be seen in increased milk yields.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

growth rate will also be determined by if they were sick when younger. Cocci and worms can really take a toll on a young kids body and it takes longer for them to start really growing. Having come from a sale barn chances are they got cocci, worms or a cold etc from being there


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Keren: That's awesome!  I thought that due to being crossed with Boer she would have an insignificant amount of milk so having her for milk production would be pointless, but hopefully she will produce quite a bit. 

Stacey: I'm not sure if you were just saying in general, but these babies all came from a slaughter house where the does kidded at the rescue organization (I guess a sale barn is close enough?). She is very healthy and was not born sick


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Empera, she will have less milk than a straight dairy, but significantly more than a boer


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow keren that was very detailed and informative.....I never knew it that way before.....thanks for the info......  

I do have to tell you ...one boer we had ...we milked out a gallon a day....she was a milk house registered FB boer .. :shocked: ..and a nightmare to dry up.....it tooks her months......I tried to convince her that she was a boer ....but she didn't listen....LOL :wink:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

empera said:


> Keren: That's awesome!  I thought that due to being crossed with Boer she would have an insignificant amount of milk so having her for milk production would be pointless, but hopefully she will produce quite a bit.
> 
> Stacey: I'm not sure if you were just saying in general, but these babies all came from a slaughter house where the does kidded at the rescue organization (I guess a sale barn is close enough?). She is very healthy and was not born sick


ok I was a tad mixed up - but non the less when a goat comes from a larger herd I always like to suggest that the kids be checked out for cocci. It saves you heart ach and troubles later


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

toth boer goats said:


> wow keren that was very detailed and informative.....I never knew it that way before.....thanks for the info......
> 
> I do have to tell you ...one boer we had ...we milked out a gallon a day....she was a milk house registered FB boer .. :shocked: ..and a nightmare to dry up.....it tooks her months......I tried to convince her that she was a boer ....but she didn't listen....LOL :wink:


lol I milked a boer once as well ... I got 1200ml from only one side of the udder, only milking once a day. She was brilliant


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

keren said:


> Empera, she will have less milk than a straight dairy, but significantly more than a boer


I'm still glad


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