# What copper bolusing can do :)



## NyGoatMom

Since I got a buck who is in need of copper, I thought I'd start a thread on before and after pics.This may help people to recognize a copper deficiency in their own goats if we can post pics of some who are and what it does after a few weeks/months.
Here is Alex...a 17 month old Sable buck. He is a nice guy to my ladies so he is a keeper 

He got his 1st bolus today and I took pics. (yes, he is thin as well...but he is gaining well now)

Notice all the red tint? And the shabby appearance of his coat? Also note that proper levels of copper will inhibit (not exclude) worm infestations. It helps the goat to stave the buggers off


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## NyGoatMom

Please feel free to add before and afters of your goats!


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## Trickyroo

I don't know what i was thinking…….carry on


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## nancy d

Looking fwd to the after pics for sure!


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## NyGoatMom

Me too...I know he will be gorgeous!


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## NyGoatMom

Here is my goat Heidi in spring after shedding her winter coat and copper bolusing...their hair should be shiny, and soft like a dog or cats hair. (excuse the huge gut...she is a barn potato)


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## NyGoatMom

Here is my other doe...Daisy Mae...around the same time.(She was shocked at the angle I was taking the picture)


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## Jessica84

Ohhh I wish I had some before and after.....I've had a ton of fixer upers. But here is a doe I got today. The ladies who herd was bad on needing copper and she looked at me like I was crazy for suggesting it. But here is Ava and storm and they get their copper tomorrow 














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## NyGoatMom

Awesome...so we can update on 3 now!


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## NyGoatMom

Around here there is a lot of copper deficiency  It's like people don't know how they should really look....I hate seeing/petting a wirey goat especially one with bones sticking out! Those two at least have decent weight it looks like.


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## Jessica84

Here too!!! And wormer. I don't get it at all. A few years back I was buying thin does and all they needed was a good worming and copper. This lady had nice looking ND and her boers were really nice too she just had no clue about the copper and I think she thought I was plying some kind of joke on her because she really did think I was out of my mind. I plan to send her pics in a few months so she can see and hopefully she believes me then 


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## NyGoatMom

or tell her to look at this thread.....seems like around here, it's the majority that don't know anything about goat nutritional needs. I see more "rescues" on CL than I'd care to


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## Zzpygmies

I've been going to the shows and finding goats with fish tails and red legs.. And when I say something about it, their breeders look at me like I'm crazy! I really wish they understood the importance of copper in their goats.. 

I have a lot of iron in my water and have to bolus every 3 months.. I just got a buck with an almost bald tail ill take a picture of for a before and after


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## NyGoatMom

Looking forward to it


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## Zzpygmies

here is my bucks before.. As you can see his poor tail is definitely visible.. He has just started his road to copper recovery


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

The tail before and after her copper levels came back up. You can see it has regrown almost all the way in the second pic. She's one that gets more susceptible to deficiency the older she gets.


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## SeventeenFarms

Don't want to hijack, yet what are the overal symptoms of copper deficiency? I have been wondering at the scruffiness look of two of my goats, but my wife and I think its just the winter fluff coming through, which it might be.

Ken


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## NyGoatMom

If you post a pic of them, we can help you determine if they need copper..


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## NyGoatMom

Lacie~ That is an awesome pic to show what fish tail is!


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## NyGoatMom

Zzpygmies said:


> View attachment 82057
> here is my bucks before.. As you can see his poor tail is definitely visible.. He has just started his road to copper recovery


His hair also looks very wirey....he's a good example of deficient too...can't wait to see the after pic


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## SeventeenFarms

Give me a day or two to post a pic-- thanks!


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## Cactus_Acres

How long does it take to re-grow tail hair in the case of copper deficiency?


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## Zzpygmies

Pygmy goats coats are MUCH courser than and dairy goat, and the bucks do tend to have a very wirey look to them, but yes he is more so then normal


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Great thread! My goats are copper deficient, but thankfully not that bad  Thanks for the pictures, a huge help


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## Zzpygmies

Some times the hair on the tail never comes back fully.. But the rest of the goat should look shiny, soft coated, and the coloring should be "true" no red in a black coat..


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## Zzpygmies

SeventeenFarms said:


> Don't want to hijack, yet what are the overal symptoms of copper deficiency? I have been wondering at the scruffiness look of two of my goats, but my wife and I think its just the winter fluff coming through, which it might be.
> 
> Ken


Some symptoms can include : weight loss, loss of pigmentation in hair, difficulty kidding, balding, weak hoof walls, sway back, fish tail.. Etc.. Most commonly it's the hair pigmentation and the fish tails, those seems to be the first signs, but I have seen a dramatic improvement in my does kidding ability since starting copper bolus... And for a pygmy breeder that's extremely important !


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## NyGoatMom

It helps with worm loads too....a goat with enough copper is just so much healthier...better coats, hooves, better immune system....


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## NyGoatMom

I had no idea pygmies were more coarse haired...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Me either, and I used to breed them when my kids were little! :lol: Sooo... :shrug: mine always felt as soft as the Alpines.


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## NyGoatMom

Hope Freedom Star doesn't mind...I thought this would be a good addition to the thread..


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## NyGoatMom

Saanendoah website states:The gelatin capsules contain thousands of minute, blunt copper oxide rods. When give orally, the gelatin capsule dissolves in the rumen, releasing the copper oxide rods, which then pass into the abomasum where they lodge. There they release copper for the animal's immediate requirements and reserves. The rods dissolve completely over a period of time. 
NOTE: There is at least one study (Attempted Induction of Chronic Copper Poisoning in Boma Confined Impala. Research and Development, Kruger National Park, Skukuza, South Africa, '99) that indicates, via fecal copper concentrations, that a good portion of the of the copper oxide particles are excreated from the body. Dispite deliberate attempts to overdose the study Impalas with one time doses ranging between 125 mg/kg to 1000 mg/kg, less than 20% of the animals were found to have elevated liver copper levels after 52 and 105 days.

Copper oxide needles are brittle rods (1 to 8 mm long , and 0.5+/- 0.1mm in diameter) made by oxidizing fine copper wire. They are nontoxic when given orally, and they can be given in doses sufficient to establish long-lasting reserves of copper in the liver. Their properties were discovered by Australian scientists, who found that a combination of small particle size and high specific gravity (2.0 and 7.0) caused them to become trapped in the folds of the abomasum. Copper oxide particles, released in the rumen pass through to the abomasum where they remain in the folds of the abomasum. CSIRO (1978) and Judson et al., (1982) demonstrated that the particles remained for a period of at least 32 days. CSIRO (1978) showed that the excretion rate of copper from the copper oxide particles was about 0.2 grams by weight per day which allowed for the safe absorption of copper without toxicity being apparent. The accumulated hepatic stores of the absorbed copper can protect the animal against copper deficiency for periods of months (our lab work indicates 4.5-6 months).To be effective the Copper particles must be swallowed, administer by a conventional balling gun which delivers the capsule direct into the gullet. The gauge and weight of the copper particles is calculated so that they sink and lodge properly. Chewing rods/wires/particles will change both the gauge, weight, specific gravity, causing the particles to pass on through the animal in greater amounts than the dose is adjusted for.
here is a pic of how it works....


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## harleybarley

For those of you sharing before and after pics, could you mention the dose/frequency you're using? We grazed a seasonally-flooded pasture before learning that that type of soil can create iron-rich pasture. Iron blocks copper. I noticed some other "bottomland" goat farms have copper deficiency signs despite bolusing. 

We bolus and feel that it helps and is worthwhile, but we don't get the gorgeous results you guys are showing with the dose and frequency on the packaging insert. It's a tough balancing act getting copper balanced, but below toxicity levels, when working with the other nutrients that interact with copper.


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## NyGoatMom

Good point Harley! I forgot to mention iron inhibits copper absorption.I have hard water here too, but my goats are drylotted and are fed mostly hay. I am in the process of getting my hay analysis...I bolus 3 x a year..about every 4 months.Typically, their winter coats are not as shiny, but their hair is very soft, like a cat or a dog....and my goats have little to no dry skin flakes.
I offer Manna Pro loose minerals too....


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## NyGoatMom

Oh, forgot...I use copasure for goats. Adults get 4 g capsules, kids get 2 gram capsules. I start bolusing at about 2-3 months old.( They should be over 5 weeks and 25 lbs or more) Adults get 4 grams up to 200 lbs. After that it's 8 grams


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## Jessica84

Well looked like a video but I had no sound lol BUT what I do is I get a piece of paper and fold it in half to get a crease then I get a box cutter and cut the bolus open, pour on the paper and with the crease in the paper I can pour it right into the bolus. Any ways that works best for me 



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## Jessica84

I agree Harley your probably going to have to give more often then what they recommend. It is very hard to od them on the rods because it is a slow release. Once I got brave enough to believe that I finally saw a big difference.....only took me a year lol. I believe the recommended dose if your going to make your own is 1mg per 22lbs. To give you a example of how hard it is to od them, I give my boer does 8mg per bolus. That's enough for roughly 200lbs of animal and give it every 4-6 months depending on when I get them In and ones that show signs of needing it. I've done it this way for the last 4ish years and everyone is still kicking  but what I would recommend is giving more often and find what time frame works for you


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## NyGoatMom

Some people do 4 x a year....I am still at 3...I think it works for me here. Try upping it to every 3 from every 6 months..


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## NyGoatMom

I also wanted to mention, I don't "wait" and see who needs it. It's automatic.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I technically give copper 4x a year, but only two of those are from a bolus. The other two times are from a mineral shot.
So basically I bolus every 6 months, and they get a shot.in between. I time it to where they get the mineral shot right before breeding, and right before kidding. I get really healthy, very strong kids that way


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## NyGoatMom

What is in the shot?


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## Zzpygmies

My goats are soft, but compared to the Nigerian, boer, and the Nubians around me, each hair strand tends to be thicker.. Especially in my bucks .. All my goats are from show stock :shrug: I can't imagine giving my goats any more copper, they get a loose mineral with high levels of copper. And they are blouses every 3 months 1 gram per 20#..


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## NyGoatMom

Yeah, that would be a lot!


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## canyontrailgoats

Zzpygmies said:


> My goats are soft, but compared to the Nigerian, boer, and the Nubians around me, each hair strand tends to be thicker.. Especially in my bucks .. All my goats are from show stock :shrug: I can't imagine giving my goats any more copper, they get a loose mineral with high levels of copper. And they are blouses every 3 months 1 gram per 20#..


Try adding a little extra oil to their feed (or BOSS), it's supposed to help hair grow in smoother and nicer feeling. You can Also try zinc supplements, for skin and hair health. Not sure if zinc would affect the copper but..?

This is an interesting thread, I like it


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## smilesx4

I am really torn on this one. My vet is a goat vet and she advised me NOT to bolus but rather to get copper into my goat via goat block that has a good level of copper in it. She said it is so easy to overdose on copper risking damage to the goats liver, that she was really against me doing it. I do have to say my goats at first devoured the goat block in less than 2 weeks, but they have slowed down a bit now. My worst goat has a much better looking coat now and isn't so boney on her back. So in my case, the block seems to be doing the trick. Unfortunately I spent a mint purchasing copper bolus for my goats, but refuse to return in "just in case".


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## NyGoatMom

I believe the article I posted states that copper sulfate is easy to O.D. them on...the rods are slow release....and much safer.


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## ksalvagno

You aren't going to get much copper in your goats through a block. You need a good loose goat or cattle mineral. 

Copper sulfate can easily be overdosed. Not the copper particles. You can always do a lighter dose to try it.


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## Zzpygmies

canyontrailgoats said:


> Try adding a little extra oil to their feed (or BOSS), it's supposed to help hair grow in smoother and nicer feeling. You can Also try zinc supplements, for skin and hair health. Not sure if zinc would affect the copper but..?
> 
> This is an interesting thread, I like it


My goats do get BOSS and wheat germ oil mixed in their food.. When I first started with pygmies I thought there was something wrong with their coats, so I started the research and added everything I could think of..after going to the shows around here, and seeing the other goats that are being bred, I noticed mine were the same ( if not a little softer). But I still think they have thicker hair strands.. IMO


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## smilesx4

ksalvagno said:


> You aren't going to get much copper in your goats through a block. You need a good loose goat or cattle mineral.
> 
> Copper sulfate can easily be overdosed. Not the copper particles. You can always do a lighter dose to try it.


 is it safe to bolus when she's pregnant?


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## Zzpygmies

smilesx4 said:


> is it safe to bolus when she's pregnant?


I try to bolus right before breeding, and right after kidding.. ( pregnancy is the only time I go 5 months in between bolusing) I try not to stress my pregnant goats at all during pregnancy, but if I noticed a severe copper deficiency in a pregnant doe, I would bolus.. The fetuses need the copper too, and the doe will have an easier delivery.


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## Zzpygmies

Quotes from saanendoah.com

NOTE: There is at least one study (Attempted Induction of Chronic Copper Poisoning in Boma Confined Impala. Research and Development, Kruger National Park, Skukuza, South Africa, '99) that indicates, via fecal copper concentrations, that a good portion of the of the copper oxide particles are excreated from the body. Dispite deliberate attempts to overdose the study Impalas with one time doses ranging between 125 mg/kg to 1000 mg/kg, less than 20% of the animals were found to have elevated liver copper levels after 52 and 105 days.

After about 4 months, liver stores start to fall rapidly. In order to best protect the neonatal kids, we strive to use the boluses at times that will keep the does levels up during her entire pregnancy. Minnesota research with mice showed that perinatal brain development was affected by copper concentration in the mothers diet. Mice born to copper deficient dams had permanent brain disorders even when fed adequate copper after birth. Some breeders are routinely giving boluses (0.625 to 1.35 grams) to kids early on (2-4 weeks old) and it's proven to be very satisfactory (I've done this the last six years in my herd).


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## Scottyhorse

Yes Pyg's do have thicker, coarser hair but it should still be soft to the touch


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

NyGoatMom said:


> What is in the shot?


Copper, Selenium, Manganese, and Zinc. I give it with a vitamin E-AD shot so they can absorb the Selenium in the mineral shot, and get the benefits of the vitamins.


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## SeventeenFarms

Quite a few pages and a lot if good discussion and info later, I am posting pics of Irene. On orchardgrass hay, boss, manna pro goat balancer (has minerals, inc copper etc, and Dumar pelleted grain, and lastly whatever else when I let her and the three others out to range. Right now no worm load, no fishtail, but coat doesn't seem uniform, and it could just be winter coat?


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## harleybarley

Thanks, folks!

After hearing about FARAD on another thread, I'm not going to say that one of my goats gets a 12.5 cow bolus, whole, a dose so high it would scare me "if" I gave it - and she would show signs of deficiency again within 3 months. We use a good loose mineral with copper, no iron, and the kids usually start eating minerals pretty young. We used to have a no-copper mineral alongside, but stopped because the goats didn't want it. We're that deficient!

I lost a goat and did a liver biopsy and copper was low even with bolusing, and even as a doeling*. Iron high, selenium (we BoSe) mid-line. That iron is a b*tch for the other minerals. I bolus quarterly and keep notes on dosage and how the goat did last time. I think dairy goats need more because they pass so much through milk, but the manufacturer needs to do testing on that and get it on the usage label!

* One goat mom weaned one kid earlier than the other. The weaned girl began showing signs of copper deficiency soon after. The other girl didn't show signs until she was weaned. Our kids rarely show deficiency until weaning, except one girl who was born with brown hair, and turned nearly black when I started bolusing her at 6 months! Her mom came from a farm that didn't bolus and I think she lacked body stores despite blousing here.


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## Scottyhorse

SeventeenFarms: From my understanding, Manna Pro Goat Balancer is a supplement, not a mineral. I would suggest offering a good loose goat mineral.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Seventeen farms, it looks like yours a a little deficient, that one is missing some hair at the top of the tail. Thats what happens when my kids need copper. Also they might need some extra zinc.


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## NyGoatMom

I too agree with Lacie~ copper bolus and zinc. Also, there is a manna pro LOOSE MINERAL for goats and the balancer. What you want is the former...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Also, check for lice.


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## NyGoatMom

I bolus in January,May, and September.So they are bred for the bolusing in January....


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## Trickyroo

SeventeenFarms , I have a doe just like your Irene who always has a nice shiny coat for the summer but come Fall/Winter it looks just like yours. No fish tail , just a coat that likes to go every which way. I offer Manna Pro minerals , Onyx minerals , seasalt rock . As for their grain , i feed Southern States Goat Pellet , alfalfa pellets and BOSS once a day and good hay. Im thinking i may have to give her another BoSe shot. She also gets Vit A,D,E gel and copper bolused. The others have nice coats but some still have a fish tail , some don't. Im at a loss on what to do or not do. Any suggestions guys ?
I also want to give kelp again , but it does get expensive when they eat it like its their last meal…..


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## SeventeenFarms

Thanks to all for the advice - think I will give the loose minerals first and go from there. I haven't seen lice yet but will continue checking. There is iron in the water although we have a household water treatment system that takes it out, and the animals get the treated water, but I am sure it still has a percentage - if I am understanding this, the iron ties up the other minerals? I used to give a goat mineral block but they never really touched it, and I guess whats in the balancer is not enough, even though it has vit's and min's in small ppms. Looking at the loose mineral label, whats in the balancer is laughable- thanks for pointing that out. I will give the minerals a try and let you know if there are any effects, although I am not sure how long that could be?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

You should see improvement in about 4 weeks from the time they are started on the minerals. They will most likely eat a LOT in the first few weeks.


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## BeanTobias97

does this doe need any copper bolusing? her black isn't really a solid black and looks kinda fuzzy.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

^^ I would bolus her.


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## NyGoatMom

Is her hair coarse? Does she have a fish tail? Can you get a side view pic of her?


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## NyGoatMom

Lacie~ Can you tell me what you see?


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## HappyCaliGoats

Can I tell you what I see? The fur on her neck is not a nice true black and there is a clear difference in the texture of the fur


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## NyGoatMom

Thanks...Boers are harder for me to tell from the pics....just like saanens...if I can see them in person I can tell better. Maybe it's me eyes ....:lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

With my Boers, the ones with black, in the wintertime they will get the fuzzy down in their coat to help keep them warm, but it should more or less still be blackish, not totally brown/red.


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## NyGoatMom

Thought this excerpt from Onion Creek Ranch was well put and appropriate for this thread...

*Copper and Stomach Worms* - Because I cannot put this information more succinctly than Dr. Jim Miller of Louisiana State University, here is what renowned parasitologist Dr. Miller has to say about copper and stomach worms.

"Copper had been used for control of Haemonchus (only) a long time ago (pre-modern anthelmintic times) in sheep, but it was not 100% and if you gave too much or multiple treatments, sheep would die of toxicity (copper accumulates in liver and causes liver failure). The copper oxide wire particles we use today are marketed for copper supplementation (not worm control), but extensive research has shown that the particles do eliminate the majority of Haemonchus too. The particles are administered in capsules or mixed in feed and are distributed throughout the GI tract. In the abomasum, they adhere to the mucosa and in the acidic environment, copper ions are released and interact with the worms, and the worms are eliminated. The mechanism of action has not been definitely established, but one of my students has seen some physical damage on the cuticle (electron microscopy) which could cause disruption of the worm's ability to maintain their position and thus be eliminated. Copper oxide wire particles can be used to control Haemonchus only. We use them at 1 gram for youngsters and 2 grams for adults. In all scientific studies I have seen, there has been no indication of copper toxicity in goats such as we can see in sheep. But there have been a couple of field reports of toxicity if administered more than needed. We don't recommend using it exclusively, but on occasion when Haemonchus doesn't respond to anthelmintic treatment, or to replace an anthelmintic treatment sometimes. It is always best to establish if copper deficiency is present and then this form of copper supplementation would be good for that. Since it is not a drug, it is more "friendly" and natural if used judiciously."


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## LadySecret

NyGoatMom said:


> "Copper had been used for control of Haemonchus (only) a long time ago (pre-modern anthelmintic times) in sheep, but it was not 100% and if you gave too much or multiple treatments, sheep would die of toxicity (copper accumulates in liver and causes liver failure). The copper oxide wire particles we use today are marketed for copper supplementation (not worm control), but extensive research has shown that the particles do eliminate the majority of Haemonchus too. The particles are administered in capsules or mixed in feed and are distributed throughout the GI tract. In the abomasum, they adhere to the mucosa and in the acidic environment, copper ions are released and interact with the worms, and the worms are eliminated. The mechanism of action has not been definitely established, but one of my students has seen some physical damage on the cuticle (electron microscopy) which could cause disruption of the worm's ability to maintain their position and thus be eliminated. Copper oxide wire particles can be used to control Haemonchus only. We use them at 1 gram for youngsters and 2 grams for adults. In all scientific studies I have seen, there has been no indication of copper toxicity in goats such as we can see in sheep. But there have been a couple of field reports of toxicity if administered more than needed. We don't recommend using it exclusively, but on occasion when Haemonchus doesn't respond to anthelmintic treatment, or to replace an anthelmintic treatment sometimes. It is always best to establish if copper deficiency is present and then this form of copper supplementation would be good for that. Since it is not a drug, it is more "friendly" and natural if used judiciously."


Cool info NyGoatMom. Thanks for sharing this.


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## Trickyroo

I agree ^^^


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## NyGoatMom

NP...I am trying to learn more myself


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## rebelINny

I'm wondering for those pain in butt goats if just adding some rods in with their grain will get them to eat it. Several of my girls just spit them right out. Maybe if top dressed lightly once a month or something? 
These two girls hate the copper. The lamancha had much readership tint when I first got her over the summer but her cot is still weird looking. Like wavy? And the little mini-alpine you can definitely see red. She was a formula baby so she didn't get any copper from her dam.


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## Trickyroo

I actually had the same idea ^^^^ not sure if they would get enough to make a difference that way though…..


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## Zzpygmies

I cut the top off of a syringe and load it up the loose rods, I have yet to have a goat that spits them all out, and there is minimal crunching of rods


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## rebelINny

That's what I have been doing Zzpygmies but I have several goats that literally bob their head up and down and will not close their mouths and swallow


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## goathiker

Here's a rusted white, just to add to the pictures. Jeter turns rusted cream when he needs copper. 
Before and after. In the second picture I was bringing him a wormer tube. Look how tight he's holding his mouth shut :lol:


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## NyGoatMom

lol @ Jeter :lol:

I use a bolus gun...and I don't take no for an answer ..lol...I get it in there deep on the left side and shoot it in with their head upward a bit....they swallow.


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## NyGoatMom

I don't know about the curling hair....but yeah, I would be sure to get the bolus gun back far enough and shoot it down.

I have also done the drench idea...works ok too....my least favorite is on the feed...the lil buggers seem to get around it all! :doh:


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## Jessica84

NyGoatMom said:


> lol @ Jeter :lol:
> 
> I use a bolus gun...and I don't take no for an answer ..lol...I get it in there deep on the left side and shoot it in with their head upward a bit....they swallow.


Lol that's what I do too. At first I was very kind and worried I would hurt them but after the 10th bolus spit on the ground I added muscle to it lol. It also helps if you hold their head up. I have one I swear can hack it up from her gut so I learned the head up real fast with her

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## NyGoatMom

lol...me too! At the cost of boluses...no more were getting spit out or wasted!


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## janeen128

Wish I had a pic still of my old Nubian/Lamancha girls, that was a night/day pics... I bolus every 3 months...


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## HappyCaliGoats

Before copper bolus, dull coat, reddish tint..








After bolus, shiny, pure black

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## Zzpygmies

rebelINny said:


> That's what I have been doing Zzpygmies but I have several goats that literally bob their head up and down and will not close their mouths and swallow


You have some talented goats.. I have also topped the rods with a dose of ivermectin.. But it seems like the dry rods stick to my goats tongue better..

I've also drenched the side of their cheek, takes them longer to get it all down, but a few of my goats have jaw muscles of steel!! I'd rather not fight them if I don't have to


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## NyGoatMom

Great example Dee  She is beautiful..


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## HappyCaliGoats

Thanx Stephanie! She's a sweet silly girl! She's actually the first example I have ever had of a copper deficiency success 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## Jessica84

Can I have your little dapple?  lol


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## NyGoatMom

How often do you bolus?


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## NyGoatMom

Jessica84 said:


> Can I have your little dapple?  lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


"Oh look Jessica! A chicken!!.........*grabs that dapple and runs *....lol


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## HappyCaliGoats

Jessica84 said:


> Can I have your little dapple?  lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Lol he's a moon spotted PB Nubian (aren't you into boers?). His spots are all almost white now. He's a huge monster! 140# at 7 months old..

Stephanie, I gave that doeling another bolus after 4 months but that second pic was taken only 1 month after the first bolus

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## NyGoatMom

I currently do 3 times a year...I may up it to four....


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## HappyCaliGoats

Grab this and run,  he's WAY too big for you to carry now :ROFL:

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## HappyCaliGoats

NyGoatMom said:


> I currently do 3 times a year...I may up it to four....


I was told to go it twice a year but that doeling really needed it.. I think once they get on track then twice a year should be good

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## NyGoatMom

I know how to get him to follow me...I'll bring some grain....lol..


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## HappyCaliGoats

All you have to do is pet a doe then he will follow you anywhere! He's going through his first rut and he's very much enjoying it :lol: he won't leave me alone when I smell like a doe!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## NyGoatMom

lol....well I coulda used him...my little moonspotted guy is a bikt behind the eight ball  I put him in with the girls and he cried :lol:


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## HappyCaliGoats

Hahaha! Well I didn't think my guy was gonna be ready this year but he just started growing really fast now he's bigger than most of my girls and he knows what his job is! Unfortunately I don't have more girls for him..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## Jessica84

Yeah I'm boers but if he was a girl you would have to watch me lol. You for sure will have to make sure you post pics of his kids, he's so handsome  


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## HappyCaliGoats

He will only be bred to 2 does this year, but I will be sure to post pix of kids!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## rebelINny

I put molasses on the tip of my syringe of copper rods and Willa especially still refuses to keep her mouth shut and swallow


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## NyGoatMom

hehehe....they can't make it easy for us!


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## Zzpygmies

Well before I used the syringe, I used peanut butter.. I would mix peanut butter and rods then put them on the back of a spoon, I would then push the peanut butter to the roof of the mouth.. It was really messy, which is why I switched technique .. 


Raising NPGA pygmy goaties


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## rebelINny

I wonder if you put the rods in a small ball of bread?


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## NyGoatMom

Some people use marshmallows...


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## HappyCaliGoats

I used a peanut butter sandwich once. It worked great for my wether, but the other goat I was blousing apparently didn't like peanut butter 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## janeen128

I just spray AVC on their feed now, and open the capsule and let them go to town..


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## NyGoatMom

I use the bolus gun now because I try not to let them chew it....I find if I hold their head up and go at the left side wayyyy in the back...they can't not swallow it.


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## janeen128

I stopped the bolus gun awhile ago, since I found out it doesn't matter if they go down whole or not.....


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## NyGoatMom

I *think* they work *better* if not chewed Janeen....I have had some chew them too,~ where did you hear your info?


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## rebelINny

I'm afraid of choking them with a bolus? Lol maybe sounds silly but I have a huge gag reflex and I always choke so maybe that is why I think about it


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## ksalvagno

They can chew them a little. I haven't given them boluses in a couple years. I have seen the same results whether they have chewed them or not.


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> I *think* they work *better* if not chewed Janeen....I have had some chew them too,~ where did you hear your info?


Actually I started a thread a few months ago... http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/showthread.php?t=170548
Incase you can't pull it up (first time I did this) it's titled "copper an easier way?"


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## goathiker

Your package has been delivered finally :lol:


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## Jessica84

Now what I read is basically the smaller the rod the more chance it has of going threw the system and not staying and doing their thing. But really I do the boluses because they are simple and fast and I know they get the amount I want them to. Some of my goats like bread some don't and a good amount are so mad that they have been captured and know feet trimming and maybe shots are coming that they refuse to eat anything from me lol. Especially the kids. They seem to have trust issues and I've been offering them treats so they calm down and they laugh at me. So I just get a small pill of copper pray I keep my fingers and shove it down them 


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## janeen128

So basically I should still try to get them to swallow them whole? Hopefully in a couple months I'll be down to 3-4 goats and 2 sheep, so I can do that... I finally sold my kinder girls...


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## Wild Hearts Ranch

I just read a study where they did some kind of imaging (MRI?) On goats fed CWP different ways, and they mostly had the same distribution regardless of how it was fed. I think the most difference was whether or not their stomach was empty when given, but it was still effective either way.


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## Jessica84

janeen128 said:


> So basically I should still try to get them to swallow them whole? Hopefully in a couple months I'll be down to 3-4 goats and 2 sheep, so I can do that... I finally sold my kinder girls...


If your still seeing a difference after the bolus or are all around happy with everything giving it to them that way I would still do it that way 

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## Zzpygmies

This is a really neat study done on copper boluses and worms

http://www.theikga.org/copper_bolus_study_in_goats.html

Raising NPGA pygmy goaties


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## Zzpygmies

This page actually shows x rays of the rods lodged in the stomach when given in treat form.. The vet involved feels both methods ( bolusing and treating) are effective

http://goatspots.com/articles/copper/

Raising NPGA pygmy goaties


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## janeen128

Good to know... I might try the marshmallow a try


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## Wild Hearts Ranch

Yep, that's the article I was thinking of! I read it right AFTER shoving boluses down mine, lol.


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## NyGoatMom

Yeah, I'd say do what makes you comfortable.....either way it's better than not giving extra copper!

I am awaiting Alex's copper to kick in visually....he is acting much healthier, but his coat is still rough......I know it needs more time, but I wanna see what he's gonna look like!


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## janeen128

It's a neat thing a month later you basically have a brand new looking goat....


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## Crossroads Boers

Wow, I have been following this thread and learning a lot! I definitely think that at least two of my goats are copper deficient and could benefit from some copper. However, both of them are pregnant; one is almost 4 months bred and the other is 3 months. Is it safe to give to pregnant does? 
What if I were to copper bolus a goat that was not deficient...would that cause some toxicity?


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## xymenah

Crossroads Boers said:


> However, both of them are pregnant; one is almost 4 months bred and the other is 3 months. Is it safe to give to pregnant does?


I've copper bolused at all stages of pregnancy and had no problems.


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## janeen128

Crossroads Boers said:


> Wow, I have been following this thread and learning a lot! I definitely think that at least two of my goats are copper deficient and could benefit from some copper. However, both of them are pregnant; one is almost 4 months bred and the other is 3 months. Is it safe to give to pregnant does?
> 
> What if I were to copper bolus a goat that was not deficient...would that cause some toxicity?


I have copper bolused all mine at different stages in pregnancy with no problems...

I also copper bolused ones that were not showing any signs and no problems.


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## NyGoatMom

I can tell you my does get bolused every year in Jan (hence, they are pregnant).

I know that all the goats levels would be somewhat different but~ I can't imagine you have one so high on copper levels that a bolus would kill it. If they have all been on the same feed, I would *imagine* that it'd be safe.

I have bolused one goat that seemed to "not need it"...she turned out gorgeous when she got bolused. Now I routinely bolus every 4 months, but I may go to 3 months this year since I have hard water....that's another factor, how much iron are they consuming....and I think manganese will inhibit absorption as well, which my hay is higher in.

Jill (I'm pretty sure it was her) told me it is really hard to OD a goat on the rods.....so I'd say try it and see how it changes her coat.

There is another thread right now where the goat kid got too much of the sulfate  so I personally don't recommend that stuff.


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## harleybarley

Anyone who gets marshmallows to work consistently with more than 3 goats, please post your technique! Seriously, please.

My #1 technique is a bolus gun with liquid behind the bolus. Open the hatch, shoot it down, rub the chin and pray to the bolus gods.

Pick the bolus up off the ground, try again. Then I get frustrated (or run out of liquid), put on leather gloves, and shove the bolus down the throat. If I have a 3rd hand, cooperative goat (ha ha), or helper, I squirt liquid in to make them swallow.

When they finish laughing and spitting out the bolus, I go to technique #4: make a yummy snack. Melt marshmallows in microwave, sprinkle with copper rods, roll into a ball, scrape marshmallow-copper residue (which is most of it) off the wax paper, reheat, try to mix it back in with the main marshmallow ball... eventually decide "this is as good as I'm gonna get it" and roll what I've got in grain or oatmeal. Stuff it in the goat's mouth, pinch it closed, and whisper menacingly "I'm starting not to care if you have healthy copper levels." (BTW, peanut butter is not popular in my herd)

Then I make a note on my health history "goat chewed up most of the copper she didn't spit out," and discover my note from last time "this is one of the 3 goats on the property who will easily take a bolus if it's stuffed in a marshmallow." These angels are easy - cut a marshmallow open, stuff in bolus, smush marshmallow closed, present to goat, done.

In other words, there's a different technique for EACH friggin goat. One will eat _anything_ in a food dish, and lick it clean. I could give her a bowl of copper rods and broken glass, and she'd eat it all. Another takes the raw marshmallow easily, and chases me to *steal* the other marshmallow-boluses I made for the *other* goats. No, her enthusiasm does NOT make the other goats easier. I carry empty marshmallows to distract her. Most of them -steps 1 and 2 - try the bolus gun, pick up whatever boluses they spit out, and shove them in by hand (hoping I don't lose any fingers). I carry extra boluses to replace the ones that get too soggy from being spit out 5 or 6 times.


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## NyGoatMom

^^ :lol:


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## HappyCaliGoats

:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

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## harleybarley

Oh, sure, misery loves company... until it finds someone else to point and laugh at! :laugh:


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## janeen128

^^^ LOL, LOL, LOL 
Mine are the same way.... My notes read on 1 in particular tried to bolus 8 times I think it got swallowed... BRAT!!


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## Jessica84

Lol I wonder if your not sticking it far enough back. But then again maybe you have a bunch like my Nevada and can hack anything up lol she is one I even did the hiding in a snack and she just laughed at me. 
But when I got my balling gun it said to use the water and I tried it that way but had NO luck. I think it got to slippery, maybe try without the water????


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## rebelINny

Lol that was so funny!


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## Crossroads Boers

NyGoatMom said:


> I can tell you my does get bolused every year in Jan (hence, they are pregnant).
> 
> I know that all the goats levels would be somewhat different but~ I can't imagine you have one so high on copper levels that a bolus would kill it. If they have all been on the same feed, I would *imagine* that it'd be safe.
> 
> I have bolused one goat that seemed to "not need it"...she turned out gorgeous when she got bolused. Now I routinely bolus every 4 months, but I may go to 3 months this year since I have hard water....that's another factor, how much iron are they consuming....and I think manganese will inhibit absorption as well, which my hay is higher in.
> 
> Jill (I'm pretty sure it was her) told me it is really hard to OD a goat on the rods.....so I'd say try it and see how it changes her coat.
> 
> There is another thread right now where the goat kid got too much of the sulfate  so I personally don't recommend that stuff.


Thanks so much! I think I should probably do everyone since they have never been bolused before.  Thanks for the help!


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## harleybarley

Crossroads Boers said:


> Thanks so much! I think I should probably do everyone since they have never been bolused before.  Thanks for the help!


I started bolusing everyone because I worry about parasites. I started with a low dose, put it on the calendar to check in 4 months, and keep notes on what dose I used and what symptoms/improvements I see. Like, if I see hoof problems later, I put that in my notes (the goats with good copper have really healthy hooves). I adjust doses and timing based on those notes. Some goats get a bigger dose next time, some I try a lower dose, until I get the frequency and dose that keeps _each_ goat in the best condition I can.

I think copper has kept my herd a lot healthier and saved a lot of money on medicines, wormers, and vet care. I was afraid to give it at first, but glad I did!


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## harleybarley

Jessica84 said:


> Lol I wonder if your not sticking it far enough back.


Probably. I got a bolus gun, but I think it's too big for goats, makes sense that it's not depositing the bolus far enough back. The puppy pill pusher fits further back, but I lost it, and it doesn't hold as much "chaser" liquid. Seriously, every goat has her own special way to be a pain in the butt.  We're due again. I'll have to see if I can find the puppy pill pusher.

Thanks!


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## Jessica84

I can't get those pill poppers to work. I use these







(The smaller size) For adult goats and works perfect for the small balling gun. But yeah anything smaller won't work. But I use smaller for smaller goats and just use my finger to shove it down.....so far I still have all my fingers!!!!! Lol

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## NyGoatMom

Well I can't really _see_ a difference yet, but man is he much more energetic! I know it's a combo of things but the copper has helped I am sure  I am planning to go ahead and bolus him in January with the rest...he was so deficient, I am sure he will handle it well.


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## Jessica84

I noticed mine is loosing her pot bellied look. I thought ok maybe the others are not letting her eat and that's what's going on but nope she pushes right in. She still has all that nasty hair though and if it was warmer I would shave it all off 


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## NyGoatMom

I was thinking the same thing...I'd love to shave him!


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## SeventeenFarms

I took the advice to give minerals - thought I'd try that first. So I have been giving them the Manna Pro Minerals with their feed - I feed them separately so I know what they are getting. I tried giving it to them loose but the strongest goat tried to hog it all- I don't know if they can get too much so took it away. Maybe it was a sign that she needed minerals? anyhow, I cant put my finger on it, but there is a difference in all five. They seem to be perkier, happier, look a bit better - just something about them tells me somethings going on. Irene's coat isn't wavy like it was , but it does look like there is some downy fur poking through. Its only been a few weeks, but there is a subtle difference to them all.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I would leave it out free choice, they will eat a lot of it daily until their levels are up where they need to be, then they will only eat a little every day.
Just let them eat as much as they want, they know when to stop.


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## NyGoatMom

I agree...leave it free choice and continue filling as needed. they will slow down when their bodies catch up...mine still have times where they eat a lot and times hardly any at all.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Some are just naturally more deficient as well. I have some that will take a nibble and a lick every now and then, and one that'll open her mouth, stuff her face halfway to her eyeballs in the bucket, snort to blow it out of her nose and walk off chewing a massive mouthful of it, it's like her daily ritual :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh also, I wanted to let the newer people know, that with bucks, do not go by hair turning red/orange on the face method to bolus them.
Because on goats with darker color, along with the dark coat rusting, etc, they also get rusty streaks around their eyes when they get copper deficient, but with bucks in rut, it can also be the hair being bleached.
I'll have to get a picture of mine so you guys can see, but he pees on his face so much that it bleaches the hair on his face a rusty red to orange color, and his hair will actually start falling out on his face because of all the pee. 

So if you bolus him before rut, and his face hair gets even rustier and oranger, the copper most likely did it's job, but his hair is probably just bleached out from all the pee.


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## SeventeenFarms

if they cant get too much then I will start giving it loose - would make my life easier! thanks!


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## janeen128

I was doing it free choice until my vet told me to put it in their feed... I've been doing that for several months, and they've remained in good health either way... I'm going to be doing some different stuff out in the barn this week so I'm going to put it out free choice again... My vet didn't like the free choice idea because he said all goats won't eat some if they need it, most will, but not all... I'm getting them some mineral tubs for Christmas too, it's the only time of year they get them..


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## Wild Hearts Ranch

I'd put it out free choice, and just add to the feed if you notice one goat in particular doesn't eat it AND looks deficient. I don't think I have any who won't eat it, just different amounts at different times.


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## Jessica84

I agree leave it out free choice, if the weaker are not getting any make more then one pan. The only time I would suggest to mix is if they are clueless like like some of mine are lol they never saw loose minerals and are sure it's poison but I still leave out if they decide they want some.


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## Hannah21

How do you bolus?I looked it up and some use the pill and others feed it by sprinkling the right amount in a marshmallow? 

Also how often do you bolus? 

I'd like to give it ago!


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## Brink4

I copper bloused my goats for the first time in October. I have noticed a big difference in their hooves since doing this. I had a horrible time trying to use the bolus gun (gun too big/bolus too small), I then tried marshmallows-our goat that thinks she is a princess and a drama queen tried to choke on it (so marshmallows no longer used). The last method we tried was stuffing the capsule in the center of a piece of banana (this was the best method I have found gobbled it down with no problem and no chewing of the rods)


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## janeen128

Well, I have the pickiest herd of all I am convinced... I tried PB&J sandwiches, bananas and lastly marshmallows... Only 2 goats ate the marshmallow no one ate the options above, so back to the bolusing gun I go;-/ I did my girls Christmas Eve... I put probiotic paste in the bolus gun, and then put the capsule on, and get it as far into the mouth as I can and then release... It actually worked well this time.... It is better if you can get the whole capsule down but it will still work the other way. I copper bolus every 3 months..


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## Summersun

What size bolus gun do you usually use. I was going to order a calf bolus gun but some of the reviews said it was too big. I using it on nubians and pygmies. 4 gram and 2 gram copasure bolus.


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## janeen128

I use the calf bolus gun, but the smallest goat I've had here are kinders..


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## NyGoatMom

I use this one http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/ideal-instruments-plastic-balling-gun-small

In fact today was bolusing day for all 7 goats. So Alex got his second dose. He still looks very rough, the red longer hair is falling out and he looks scruffy.
However, he has gained 38 lbs since he came here  I'll try to remember to get pics tomorrow...


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## janeen128

That's the one I use.


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## groovyoldlady

I sprinkled the rods in banana for 2 of my girls and they went ape for it. The other doe hates banana. I had to do some experimenting, but finally found that she will kill for canned pumpkin. So I just fed the rods loose...not in a bolus. They didn't even try to chew the mushy banana or pumpkin. They just sucked it down.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I just bolused everyone again today too, and came to the conclusion that I need to buy a bolus gun after I got my hand broken :lol: That doe has the jaws of death! :slapfloor: 
I used to do the banana or yogurt mix, but I never have food so I risk my extremities to get it done, and I was only semi-victorious today :lol:


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## NyGoatMom

Aye aye aye! Broken hand? That's not good!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yeah, one of the metacarpal bones, it's really swollen and lumpy and painful :lol: And I was wearing thick gloves too! But nope, just crushed it with her jaws of death! 
Copper bolusing-nothing to mess around with! :lol: Probably gonna be a PITA when I have to milk them all in 3 months


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## ThreeHavens

Do you think they'd take it in a marshmallow? Someone did an ex-ray of her goat's rumen after she bolused it with a marshmallow. Some of it got digested (chewed) but most of it stayed where it was supposed to for slow copper release.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Can I feed them a tuna sandwich instead? :lol: They don't like marshmallows, they like sandwiches, burritos, tacos, cake, brownies, cookies, candy, donuts, garbage basically :lol:
She's just a pill, so I normally give her 1-2 boluses a year, and the rest I give her with the mineral shots.


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## janeen128

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I just bolused everyone again today too, and came to the conclusion that I need to buy a bolus gun after I got my hand broken :lol: That doe has the jaws of death! :slapfloor:
> I used to do the banana or yogurt mix, but I never have food so I risk my extremities to get it done, and I was only semi-victorious today :lol:


You seriously got your hand broke? Ugh!!! That's not good....;( Sorry to hear about that;(


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yep, by my lovely, biggest, almost 3 months pregnant, encroaching 200lbs doe :lol: Not the first time I've broke this hand, it's ok, I will heal


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## J-TRanch

Anyone use replamin instead of copper bolusing?
I haven't needed to give selenium or copper bolus since I started using replamin.


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## janeen128

That is next on my list to try, however I'm sure I'll still need additional since WA is so copper and selenium deficient...


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## J-TRanch

janeen128 said:


> That is next on my list to try, however I'm sure I'll still need additional since WA is so copper and selenium deficient...


It's really made a HUGE difference in my does... sooo SHINY! I am curious to see what others have to say.


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## sassykat6181

Hmmmm I might have to try that. I copper bolus every 3 months here. Its such a hassle. I am almost to the point of putting a filter on the barn water line. Will it remove iron?


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## NyGoatMom

Here are some pics from tonight....he is losing the coarse hair...and is real scruffy looking right now...


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## janeen128

He's looking good though... I still need to do my boys..., this is a great reminder...;-)


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## NyGoatMom

Thanks....the weight gain is amazing. It's there but he still looks slender! But the "pot belly" look is gone....and his ribs are much less pronounced as is his backbone and hip bones. He's coming along slowly...Jill told me they heal from the inside out so I hope by spring he can really show some improvement.


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## NyGoatMom

Oh, and here is what a black goat's coat should look like!
My lil meatie, felix! He's 10 months old....Fainter/Nubian cross...born here, raised here.


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## janeen128

Ooh, yep his coat looks soft;-)


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## NyGoatMom

It is extremely soft...like a cats coat


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## sassykat6181

Maybe I should put my copper in peanut butter?  look at this video of this guy's goat loving peanut butter 
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6392018?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000022


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## janeen128

Oh my!! Too funny;-)


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## NyGoatMom

I'd think PB would make them chew the rods.......but the goat is cute


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## PowerPuffMama

I have 1 goat that loves PB and ate it right up. All the rest turned up their noses and I ended up having to force feed.

That was 2 weeks ago and it is hard to believe how much difference it makes!

WOW!


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## sassykat6181

I did all 26 last weekend. Some are easy to do, others have jaws of steel!


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## Greybird

I've been lucky with mine. All of them adore Calf Manna pellets so I saved some in the freezer to use as an occasional treat. I mix them up with a bit of soft banana and then stir in the copper pellets. They don't even notice the copper since the texture of the Calf Manna disguises any little crunchy bits.

I serve their crunchy banana treat in a small glass bowl (to save my fingers), one goat at a time, and they lick it clean. 
I wish worming them was so easy.


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## Hannah21

I did the peanut butter sandwich for the two girls gobbled it right up!should I repeat in 3 months?Lucas refused lol...will need to find away to trick that little man!


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## Trickyroo

I had a real fear of losing my fingers trying to shove it down their throats , lol.. I just can't get myself to do it anymore. Ive tried , believe me. I have given oral meds to every size animal , even my husband , but the goats have got me beat , i have to admit. 
They will get their copper one way or another , but not with my fingers


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## ThreeHavens

I don't shove it down either, lol! I fear those teeth. They get it hidden in their herbal dewormer. Never know what hit them.


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## glndg

sassykat6181 said:


> Hmmmm I might have to try that. I copper bolus every 3 months here. Its such a hassle. I am almost to the point of putting a filter on the barn water line. Will it remove iron?


You can get a system to remove iron, but a simple filter won't work. My parents have a lot of iron in their water, so they got some kind of system that has an ultraviolet light that oxygenates the water with O3 and changes the iron to iron oxide which can be filtered out. Something like that. :-D There are different types of systems.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Trickyroo said:


> I had a real fear of losing my fingers trying to shove it down their throats , lol.. I just can't get myself to do it anymore. Ive tried , believe me. I have given oral meds to every size animal , even my husband , but the goats have got me beat , i have to admit.
> They will get their copper one way or another , but not with my fingers


Or the fear of broken hands! :ROFL: I would much rather be up to my shoulder in a cows mouth, than even try and stick a finger in a goats mouth :lol:
Me and my friend used to joke with people who questioned how sharp goat teeth really were, and we'd laugh and say "Well, stick your finger in there and find out!" :lol: Some actually did it too :ROFL: :slapfloor:


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## Trickyroo

When i was typing my post , I thought of you Lacie  How's your hand doing ?


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## Trickyroo

I did the same thing , but it was with freshly mashed potatoes …..
I asked my sister in law if they were hot yet and she stuck her finger in them :shocked: Yeow :slapfloor: Of course they are hot ya maroon :doh::ROFL:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh it's doing :lol: It for the most part doesn't hurt anymore, only when I bump it, or hold something too heavy, but it's going to have a permanent lump :lol: Stupid lumpy hand :lol:


----------



## Trickyroo

Glad your not in pain ! It sounded horrible ! Awww , thats a shame  We will call you bumpy now


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

No, no, it's not "bumpy" it's "lumpy"  :lol: And please don't! :ROFL:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Lumpy Lacie? :ROFL: :lol:


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

Whoa, I missed something!


----------



## Trickyroo

No no no I did not just start that , did I ?


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Haha! Leave it up to Laura!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

:ROFL: See what you started? :slapfloor: :lol:


----------



## Jessica84

Ok so this was Ava 2 1/2 months ago and now today. So there is some difference. I'll probably to ahead and do her again in a few weeks.







1/15













Today. And she is growing so much better. She was a June kid, when I got her she was half the size of my June kid and now she is slowly catching up. I'll get the other girl that I posted at the beginning of this tomorrow.

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## Trickyroo

To me there is a shine and her coat does look richer too. What a cutie


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## Jessica84

Well at least my husband isn't picking on me for buying her any more lol. I drove 3 hours and honestly paid a little high for her but I didn't want to come home empty handed 


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## Trickyroo

Jessica84 said:


> Well at least my husband isn't picking on me for buying her any more lol. I drove 3 hours and honestly paid a little high for her but I didn't want to come home empty handed
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


IMO , it would have been a total waste of gas and time if you came home empty handed , lol.. So , you HAD to bring her home


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## Jessica84

Lol I like your thinking 


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## HappyCaliGoats

She's really cute! And she looks so much better! Good job! I would have brought her home too


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## NyGoatMom

She looks great so far Jessica  My Alex is almost bald right now, having to keep him inside because of it. BUT....I still think he's gonna be a looker this year  Will try to get pics soon and post him in all his balding glory...all the old coarse hair is gone....


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Stephanie, have you tried a vitamin E shot? Biagia had a lot of hair loss and the E in the AD&E shot made it quit falling out and grow back softer.


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## NyGoatMom

He is getting 2 gelcaps each week of vitamin e...started last week,


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## Jessica84

Poor guy  he's just having it all with his coat huh? Well you can send him out here it's warm enough for a bald goat lol


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## NyGoatMom

hahaha...I saw that on the national weather map! I am so jealous!


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## Jessica84

Lol no it's.really sucked, but now that it's mid to high 69s and raining I'm happy. All my green was not looking very happy but we got a inch the last 24 hours and things are looking up


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## NyGoatMom

We are getting plastered with freakin' snow again! :hair::hair::hair::ram::ram::ram:


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## Jessica84

Oh no you can keep that stuff lol it's crazy though how different it is from coast to coast.....well really any place but here. 


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----------



## SusanP

I just picked up 5 goats yesterday, the 3 mature does all have tails like this photo. I've read about fishtail due to copper deficiency but have not seen it in my herd. We offer loose mineral free choice and the person I got these goats from said she used a mineral block but they didn't really lick it. I've bolused all these new goats so am looking forward to seeing the results. How long is it typically before you can start to see improvement?


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## NyGoatMom

whoa, yeah....shouldn't be too long but these may need a couple doses.....definitely leave out loose minerals too...


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## SusanP

Oh definitely, they are getting the loose mineral that our other goats get as well. In fact, while I was at it I bolused everyone, though the older ones that weren't showing signs I just gave half dose. But after reading through this entire thread, I think I may start doing it regularly for all the goats. 

By the way, some of my goats liked the peanut butter/oatmeal with a touch of honey bolus balls, while others preferred the bread bolus. Three didn't like either option so they got option #3 (no sugar coating, just suck it up and swallow the pill, princess lol!)


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## SusanP

The doe in the photo above spent a very amorous weekend with our buck in early December, but yesterday when she arrived she was obviously in heat again so the first breeding either didn't take or perhaps she had an early abortion. I understand copper deficiency can really play havoc with reproductive health?


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## ksalvagno

Yes it can.


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## NyGoatMom

Copper deficiency makes them susceptible to worms too....interested to see what these girls look like in a few months


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## SusanP

Yes I am very interested to see what the copper bolus does for them. The goats are not in really bad shape, but could be better to my admittedly inexperienced eye. They were well cared for in terms of shelter and hay and such, just a super busy family that realized they really didn't have the time for goats.

Feet have not been done since Sept so it was spa day for the girls today with pedicures all around lol! A couple had some separation of the outer and inner hoof wall, I think I read that could a copper issue too?

The previous owner wormed much more aggressively than I've been doing, and perhaps part of the reason was that they were more susceptible due to copper deficiency. I try to worm very conservatively, using lots of natural prevention strategies, and I do fecal counts before pulling out the chemical wormer if I suspect a problem. It sounds like a lot of work but I don't find it so, I really enjoy the learning process and getting to know each individual goat.

So, everyone has had a nice pedicure, their copper bolus, and they now have free access to kelp meal, baking soda and loose minerals in addition to a nice grass hay and of course, yummy goat treats. Can't forget the treats!

I'm looking forward to seeing smooth, shiny coats and healthier feet over the next few months.


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## NyGoatMom

Sounds like some lucky goats!


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## Tapestry

One of my goats was born with a flair at the tip of her tail. It really isn't a fish tail, but could this be a copper deficiency anyways? She's six years old now and her tail has never changed.


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## NyGoatMom

How is the overall look/health of your herd? Do they have loose minerals available? Pics would help determine if your herd is deficient...


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## Tapestry

My herd is definitely deficient! The lady I got my goats from told me that all I needed to know about supplementing them was to worm them if they started holding their tails down. I've had them for six years and by just dumb luck, I have never had any issues with them at all. I just bought two new goats and the lady I bought them from actually cares about goats and started educating me. Now I know how close to disaster I've been all this time and I'm starting to rectify quite a number of things. Copper boluses are ordered and they are getting Manna Pro Goat minerals, both free choice and added to their food, since I have a couple that won't touch them on their own. They are also getting a clean out worming, Ivomec Plus every 10 days times 3, then 30 days later. My vet told me to go ahead and worm them with fenbedazole too. I've had my vet order me some supplies and I'm reading everything I can find about PROPER goat care. I LOVE this site!!


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## bbpygmy

Before:







After:


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## janeen128

WOW!! Good job


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## NyGoatMom

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout


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## rebelINny

Nice


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## NyGoatMom

So I am now bolusing every 3 months...during pregnancy my black doe was showing signs of deficiency so I am sure it takes a lot out of them. I will update pics of Alex as soon as he grows his spring coat!!! :hair:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Okay, so question over here! :wave:

After you have bolused once, how do you know when you should again?
What are some signs?
Any tips welcome on that front  I coppered my goats Feb 12/15...never given them any copper boluses before either.


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## NyGoatMom

I started out doing twice a year...then moved to 3 times a year...now 4. Same classic signs...rough coat, fish tails,dull appearance of the coat...I'd plan on doing it again in 5-6 months unless you see no improvement at all...then do 3 months.


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## rebelINny

I'm going to have to switch to 3 times a year I think. 2X isn't really helping enough.they still have red tinged hair


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## FloatnRockRanch

I have learned so much! Excellent thread! Thanks NYGOATMOM for keeping this growing and getting so much information in one thread.

Can't wait for the copper boluses to get here.....2 more days.

Can they be copper bolused and dewormed at the same time? I'm concerned with stressing them too much as they have never been wormed. The previous owner used herbal preventatives, pine, cedar and Grapeseed extract for worming. They have never been bolused or given any vaccine. They don't really look or act wormy, poops are good, but the buck we have on loan looks terrible and definitely has bugs/worms. Pretty sure we should just hit all of them with everything LOL. He definitely has fish tail, clumpy poop scaly nasty skin and fuzzy awful hair. When he first got here, he attacked the free choice minerals....that i've never seen the does use. 

Anyways...after copper bolusing, what should the priorities be for catching up stuff without over stressing them?


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## NyGoatMom

You're welcome FloatnRockRanch  I copper bolus and deworm at the same time. The only thing I would do different for the buck is give him Ivomec dewormer SQ @1cc per 40 lbs. If you think he is wormy, giving it orally initially can cause him to bleed out if there are too many worms killed at once.
Check him over good for lice/mites but if he has them the Ivomec would take care of that. It needs to be done 3 times at one week apart each.
When I get a new goat I give them copper, do the Ivomec SQ, I give them selenium/e gel, Python Dust them and one week after the Ivomec, I hit them up with Valbazen for 3 days to rid them of any tapes.The next week I do DiMethox for cocci...that way I know they are cleaned out and good to go.Being drylotted here they get less worms than goats on pasture, but cocci can be more of an issue so if I get a kid instead of an adult, I do cocci treatment first.


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## NyGoatMom

rebelINny said:


> I'm going to have to switch to 3 times a year I think. 2X isn't really helping enough.they still have red tinged hair


My black doe was great until the last 3 weeks or so of pregnancy, she started turning red. The kids came out jet black though with no red, so I blame them for taking it all :lol: But I decided I'll do every 3 months.


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## top_goat

Great b4/after BBPygmy!


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## Trickyroo

rebelINny said:


> I'm going to have to switch to 3 times a year I think. 2X isn't really helping enough.they still have red tinged hair


Ive noticed my guys having the rough coats too , and i just bolused them a couple months ago&#8230;..even their fish tails haven't gone away , its driving me crazy :hammer:

Im thinking of giving them a BoSe shot as well. I just did that in i think it was November or October&#8230;gotta look to make sure .

Seems like i can't get the ones that have the fish tails to grow out. 
Im at a loss . I use the Onyx cattle Minerals. 
Not sure if I'm missing anything else&#8230;..:-?


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## NyGoatMom

I'm wondering Laura if some of them just don't grow back...


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## Trickyroo

NyGoatMom said:


> I'm wondering Laura if some of them just don't grow back...


Im thinking the same thing , but one of their coats just doesn't look shiny and soft like it used to and she's black. So , I'm going to do another bolus with em all and see how that goes&#8230;.I was thinking that maybe its cause its shedding time and they all look kinda drab. Tricky shedded out something fierce , i was thinking she was sick cause she looked really bad , but now she looks good , all shedded out &#8230; I did had a lice issue over the winter ( who hasn't ) and i just did their last week of Ivomec. So, I'm hoping to see improvements soon&#8230;

Really bites when your doing everything and still can't get them looking their best


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## NyGoatMom

Are you doing 1 gram per 22 lbs?


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## Trickyroo

NyGoatMom said:


> Are you doing 1 gram per 22 lbs?


Yes


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## Trickyroo

You know , I'm thinking that if i didn't get it "down" all the way , they chewed some…..idk…but i thought i read somewhere it doesn't really matter too much if they chew some..


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## NyGoatMom

Not supposed to....I'm sure when they grow in their spring coats it'll b e shiny


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## Bree_6293

I have a buck that I can't seem to fix! He comes good for about 3/4 weeks then goes backwards again!!! He has a real bad fish tail, his coat is rough and gross! When he does come good he still has a fish tail! His coat just gets slightly less rough and a bit of shine through it.


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## Tapestry

I wonder if you have very hard water? Or if your mineral mix is low on copper, but your boy eats a lot of it. Copper absorption and usage is affected by the other minerals consumed.


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## Bree_6293

We run completely off rain water. He gets a loose mineral that I add copper, dolomite and kelp to as my vet recommend as we don't have a goat mineral any where near me! He does also have a goat mineral block that is designed for goats with a good copper amount, which he does eat but not as often as the loose mineral. I also had a stock block to his water that slowly releases copper. He has one water with that and one with acv and he drinks about the same from each waterer in a day. I had a hard time finding copper bolouses that they would ship to Australia but have finally found them! They only come in 2 gram sizes (designed for kids) and they will take at least a week to get here! Hopefully that will finally help him! I have owned goats for 7/8 months now and he was my first from a breeder but he was fishtailed and dull coated when I got him which I just thought that was what goats were like... I learnt quickly about copper problems as I had two does that had rough coats and red tinged (the black girl) they were from the same breeder too. They have come good now and all my other goats have lovely soft coats, no fish tails and no red tinges in the black/ dark ones. It's just him.


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## sassykat6181

I'm reading here that they might need zinc also


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## Bree_6293

I have human zinc tablets. Could I put that in his grain? How much? What are signs of zinc deficiency?


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## Tapestry

I have one that seems to need more than all the others too. She was born with a fish tail and a burnt brown coat. I have often wondered if being copper deficient from birth makes their body not know what to do with copper, or some ridiculous thing like that, since I can't find any other reason for that one particular doe to have a higher requirement than the others.


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## NyGoatMom

From what I understand zinc deficiency will cause a rough coat,dry skin and a "singed" look to their coat. I am now using zinpro 40 on my buck Alex, and it is indeed helping! He gets 1/4 tsp a day along with Manna pro loose minerals and kelp.


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## Tapestry

I guess I'll have to place an order with the Jolly German!


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## NyGoatMom

.


----------



## LibertyHomesteadFarm

A couple questions...copper bolusing is supposed to help suppress barber pole worms right?
Also, can you overdose on the copper boluses (copper oxide) like you can w/ copper sulfate?


----------



## janeen128

LibertyHomesteadFarm said:


> A couple questions...copper bolusing is supposed to help suppress barber pole worms right?
> Also, can you overdose on the copper boluses (copper oxide) like you can w/ copper sulfate?


It does help with worm loads... Yes, you can overdose but it is extremely difficult...


----------



## rebelINny

NyGoatMom said:


> From what I understand zinc deficiency will cause a rough coat,dry skin and a "singed" look to their coat. I am now using zinpro 40 on my buck Alex, and it is indeed helping! He gets 1/4 tsp a day along with Manna pro loose minerals and kelp.


Where are you getting zinpro 40? Is it Rx?


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## NyGoatMom

www.jollygerman.com You can order as little as a lb. I use 1/4 tsp daily as a top dress


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## Jasmar

After reading through this thread the other night, our boluses arrived today, and I *successfully bolused two kids!* 

I had the smaller kid-sized boluses, and smashed them into very ripe pieces of banana, then rolled the banana in oats.

Junia, the doeling, ate around the bolus and spit it on the ground. I had figured she'd be the more difficult of the two, so I offered Leopold (the wether) his. He took the whole thing in his mouth and crunched for a good full minute, while my daughter and I stared at his mouth to see if he was going to spit it out. He didn't, and we let out a cheer that scared both goats into the blackberry brambles.

So I turned my attention back to stubborn Junia. I did the best I could to cover the first bolus with what banana she hadn't eaten in the first go-round. I had to pull her away from the blackberry leaves, but she eventually took the banana. We anxiously kept vigil on her mouth, and after a great deal of jawing, tongue twisting, and shaking her head up and down, she swallowed the whole thing!

We were very silly in our excitement. Now I can wait to see how they look in a month or three!


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## NyGoatMom

Congrats on success  It may take more than one bolus to show much improvement..I would say if you are not seeing much improvement after 3 months, bolus them again.


----------



## Trickyroo

NyGoatMom said:


> www.jollygerman.com You can order as little as a lb. I use 1/4 tsp daily as a top dress


Thanks for that link


----------



## Trickyroo

Jasmar said:


> After reading through this thread the other night, our boluses arrived today, and I *successfully bolused two kids!*
> 
> I had the smaller kid-sized boluses, and smashed them into very ripe pieces of banana, then rolled the banana in oats.
> 
> Junia, the doeling, ate around the bolus and spit it on the ground. I had figured she'd be the more difficult of the two, so I offered Leopold (the wether) his. He took the whole thing in his mouth and crunched for a good full minute, while my daughter and I stared at his mouth to see if he was going to spit it out. He didn't, and we let out a cheer that scared both goats into the blackberry brambles.
> 
> So I turned my attention back to stubborn Junia. I did the best I could to cover the first bolus with what banana she hadn't eaten in the first go-round. I had to pull her away from the blackberry leaves, but she eventually took the banana. We anxiously kept vigil on her mouth, and after a great deal of jawing, tongue twisting, and shaking her head up and down, she swallowed the whole thing!
> 
> We were very silly in our excitement. Now I can wait to see how they look in a month or three!


Thats awesome ! Im glad im not the only one who gets a kick out of being able to get them to swallow their boluses , lol&#8230;.
Its hysterical the feeling of accomplishment you get from feeling you "got one over" on them , lol&#8230;Good for you !!!!


----------



## billiejw89

The first picture is of Isis last summer, in August I believe. The second picture I took today. She got a copper bolus in the fall and another a few weeks ago. She still has some winter fluff under there but her coat looks so much better, the black on her shoulders shines so pretty, and I had no idea she had the darker markings on her belly.


----------



## NyGoatMom

It's so true...their color can change so much from what we thought it was...then they get the right amount of copper and everything gets shinier and more true to it's color  She looks great!


----------



## FloatnRockRanch

*Before Pics for Stormy*

Took pics of things I thought should be changing after they get copper bolus. YAY!!! Got mine today....feels soooooo good to finally hopefully see some great changes. I mixed the copper strands into molasses and a tablesoon of their grain mix for the first time. None of them wanted anything to do with the banana. Will have to try something different next time. Might have lost some, but they licked and slurped it all. LOL! Things I hope to see change for Stormy, fishtail go away, pigment around eyes and nose, brown in his black hair, scraggle fuzzy hair, scaly itchy skin.


----------



## FloatnRockRanch

*Before pics for Stella*

Would like to see her get pregnant! Have a better heat cycle, pigment around eyes and nose, hoof troubles, pegleg walk, eye color improved, more energy. Think she is really over weight, but not sure.


----------



## FloatnRockRanch

*Before Pics for Coco*

Hope to see her get pregnant, pigment on eyes and nose, fish tail, better hooves.She has more energy and plays more than Stella, doesnt have the stiff pegleg walk.

Now we wait and watch very impatiently for changes!! 

Stephanie


----------



## Trickyroo

FloatnRockRanch said:


> Hope to see her get pregnant, pigment on eyes and nose, fish tail, better hooves.She has more energy and plays more than Stella, doesnt have the stiff pegleg walk.
> 
> Now we wait and watch very impatiently for changes!!
> 
> Stephanie


I hope you see changes real soon  It feels good when you know you did something for them that will greatly improve their health and well being 

I could be wrong here , but the copper isn't going to change the color of her eyelids&#8230;.if she looks pale to you , i would run a fecal on her to check for parasites. That will affect her eyelid color and energy levels..


----------



## FloatnRockRanch

Trickyroo said:


> I could be wrong here , but the copper isn't going to change the color of her eyelids&#8230;.if she looks pale to you , i would run a fecal on her to check for parasites. That will affect her eyelid color and energy levels..


That's next :dance: !!!

Jeffers is taking forever to get me that package......oh yea, went cheap economy shipping LOL! And I am still working on courage....HATE needles. Think Im gonna make the DH take blood samples and do the injectable for the buck, and do the does orally with the injectable. Yep I might take the easy ay out for now...:blue:


----------



## Matadequin

My yearling Alpine doe is due to kid in the next week and I noticed her black looked so dull compared to my wether. I realized about three weeks ago that he was shedding out while her coat didn't seem to be. I spent some time watching them and found that while she chowed down on the alfalfa, the wether was the one eating most of the minerals and what he didn't get, the donkey was polishing off! I started separating them during feeding to give her more time to access the loose minerals and the hair around her back end that's visible from my first crack at a kidding clip looks to be darker and glossier. I've ordered the Copasure boluses from Jeffers (should be here very soon) and will administer to her after she kids. 

First picture is from February and the second is from Tuesday of this week. Could the rapid growth of the kids make her coat look that dull over the course of 2 months? Is some of it just rough winter coat? The flash really highlights the ruddy color. Hopefully in a couple months I'll have a nice "After" picture to share:


----------



## top_goat

For all of us having mineral deficiency challenges (especially copper), I'm doing an experiment with a new (to me) mineral mix. I had bolused all my goats 2 1/2 months ago, but they are NOT responding as I'd like -- in fact, my does seem to be getting worse! Suzanne Gasparatto of Onion Creek Ranch (meat goats) recently recommended Purina Wind & Rain All Season Cattle Minerals 7.5. It has 2500 ppm copper and a 2:1 Calciumhosphorus ratio. And's it's not outrageously expensive and is pretty widely available. (Note they also have a 1:1 ratio - she adamantly does NOT recommend the 1:1, only the 2:1).

Yesterday, I took multiple "before" photos of all my animals. I bolused the buck (he loves applesauce mixed with his feed -- never notices the COWP!) and added the loose minerals to the does' mineral feeders. They started eating it immediately -- so it's palatable. I'll let ya'll know in a month or two how things are developing with regard to the fish tails, coarse dull coats, and rusty hairs!


----------



## Anne2

I'm curious about copper bolus. I have no idea what it is. Where do you get it? I have never copper boluses. My two does are not bred.... never have been and I don't milk them ( that kinda goes without saying since they've never been bred) . I give them ten selenium and I vitamin e and two vitamin d tabs (think that's it) the recipe is down the barn. Was told to do this by a very knowledgable goat lady. But I'm worried if I never gave them copper are they ok. When you read all these posts you start to look for things that hopefully aren't there but your not sure. I don't really know what fishtail is either. Trying to find a picture because one of my goats tail is bent a little, though she holds it straight out it does have a bit of a bend to it. So do I need copper bolus and where do I get it? Can anyone help me out with this and when do you administer it and why. Can you do this and if they don't need it will they get sick? So many questions I need a fairy goat mother.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Matadequin said:


> My yearling Alpine doe is due to kid in the next week and I noticed her black looked so dull compared to my wether. I realized about three weeks ago that he was shedding out while her coat didn't seem to be. I spent some time watching them and found that while she chowed down on the alfalfa, the wether was the one eating most of the minerals and what he didn't get, the donkey was polishing off! I started separating them during feeding to give her more time to access the loose minerals and the hair around her back end that's visible from my first crack at a kidding clip looks to be darker and glossier. I've ordered the Copasure boluses from Jeffers (should be here very soon) and will administer to her after she kids.
> 
> First picture is from February and the second is from Tuesday of this week. Could the rapid growth of the kids make her coat look that dull over the course of 2 months? Is some of it just rough winter coat? The flash really highlights the ruddy color. Hopefully in a couple months I'll have a nice "After" picture to share:


One of my nubians with a black coat was fine until the last 2 months of pregnancy...she started turning red...so I'd say she needs a bolus


----------



## Matadequin

Thanks, NyGoatMom. The Copasure 4g boluses arrived Saturday and I'll pick up some marshmallows during lunch today. Since she's so close to kidding (Friday is her estimated due date) I'm not sure I want to try wrangling a bolus down her throat for the first time. Hiding it in a marshmallow was mentioned here and on another site I checked so I'll see how it goes this afternoon!


----------



## NyGoatMom

Anne2 said:


> I'm curious about copper bolus. I have no idea what it is. Where do you get it? I have never copper boluses. My two does are not bred.... never have been and I don't milk them ( that kinda goes without saying since they've never been bred) . I give them ten selenium and I vitamin e and two vitamin d tabs (think that's it) the recipe is down the barn. Was told to do this by a very knowledgable goat lady. But I'm worried if I never gave them copper are they ok. When you read all these posts you start to look for things that hopefully aren't there but your not sure. I don't really know what fishtail is either. Trying to find a picture because one of my goats tail is bent a little, though she holds it straight out it does have a bit of a bend to it. So do I need copper bolus and where do I get it? Can anyone help me out with this and when do you administer it and why. Can you do this and if they don't need it will they get sick? So many questions I need a fairy goat mother.


I know there's a lot but if you read through this thread you should get all your answers...there are pics and lots of good info


----------



## Bree_6293

http://www.animalhealthsupplies.com...copper-capsules-for-sheep-and-goats-2.5g.html

Is this copper treatment ok? Only one I seem to be able to get in Australia.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Here are some updated pics of Alex....taken today  He's getting there! The red is slowly leaving...the itchy flaky skin is almost gone now. His ears are turning black slowly...


----------



## NyGoatMom

Last pic is without flash and overcast...but it shows the color difference between the red and black...look at his ear in the first pic!!


----------



## NyGoatMom

Bree_6293 said:


> http://www.animalhealthsupplies.com...copper-capsules-for-sheep-and-goats-2.5g.html
> 
> Is this copper treatment ok? Only one I seem to be able to get in Australia.


Sorry Bree, I am not sure on that....but I *think* it is ok..seems to be oxide rods.....maybe more will chime in.


----------



## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Sorry Bree, I am not sure on that....but I *think* it is ok..seems to be oxide rods.....maybe more will chime in.


I also think it would be okay too, better than nothing.


----------



## Bree_6293

Would I give a young goat one and an adult two? My heaviest goat (adult buck) is 41kg and my lightest is 10 kg (6 month old doe)


----------



## sassykat6181

I dose at 1 gram per 22 pounds


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## Bree_6293

What age can you bolus them for the first time? Is 6 months too young?


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## LadySecret

Bree_6293 said:


> What age can you bolus them for the first time? Is 6 months too young?


I've copper bolused at 10 weeks with no problems. But I have to copper bolus my herd frequently or they get rusty and fish tailed. So bare that in mind.


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## Jessica84

I usually do 8 weeks old, but went with a month old on these kids and already I am so pleased with doing it a month early. They would already have rough looking coats by 8 weeks so I wanted to nip it in the butt before they got to that.........but I too go threw copper like crazy here


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## sassykat6181

^ good to know. I have to bolus every 4-6 weeks depending on the goat. My solid black lamancha was bolused just after birth and her 5 week old black doe is looking rusty. Shes almost 25 pounds already. I think I'll do her and sister next week. Thanks!


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## janeen128

I started doing it at 8 weeks too


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## Anne2

I copper bolused a few weeks back. My first time ever doing this I bought the one recommended on here from Jeffers catalog. Those are mighty big pills. Ok so I did this with the bolus gun. I've been fighting what I believe to be nights since taking there blankets off at the end of winter. Have cleaned out barn sprayed, used diamatus earth on bedding as well as cleaned everything out each time to start again. I have used all the shampoos even a natural one dawn dish detergent mixed with garlic and lemon. Worked a bit better but she's still using the metal fence and scratching her body on it. The copper bolus worked on the Nubian but the seinan still has course hair and isn't plumping up like every other year. She's not skinny but l can see her face looks thin to me. I know I like them to fat and the vet always tells,e to thin them down. But she just doesn't look right. We did go thru a bout of mastitis but got that under control. She's usually my healthy one so I'm confused could the mites do this to her? How often do you copper bolus? I also wormed a few days after the bolus. The Only thing I haven't done yet is get there yearly shots but there not overdue and I want her healthy before I do that. I was hoping to see big changes when I bolused but I don't. I do on the Nubian just not her any suggestions?


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## janeen128

It takes about a month to see a difference. Do you have a pic of her...


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## Shell2

How soon can I copper bolus again? I did my 3 goats on March 3, 2015. Buck and two pregnant does. The buck is almost all shed out from his winter coat and is looking amazing...shiny, soft and sleek, however my does are still coarse and my black one has rusty areas, they both has slight fishtails. Can I do it again now(3 months later) or should I wait another month or so? Any advice would be appreciated


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## LadySecret

Shell2 said:


> How soon can I copper bolus again? I did my 3 goats on March 3, 2015. Buck and two pregnant does. The buck is almost all shed out from his winter coat and is looking amazing...shiny, soft and sleek, however my does are still coarse and my black one has rusty areas, they both has slight fishtails. Can I do it again now(3 months later) or should I wait another month or so? Any advice would be appreciated


I'd bolus them again. You usually see results in 4 to 6 weeks. If they haven't charged or are still showing symptoms, I bolus them again at 2 months. It's all trial and error until you figure out how often your goats need it.


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## janeen128

Yes, I would bolus again too. How many grams did you use the 1st time?


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## Bree_6293

Ok. I have given it to a few of mine and will also give it to my younger ones. They are 10-12 months old (one is 7 months old). If they weigh between 10 and 18kg can I give them the 2g kid bolus?


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## LadySecret

Bree_6293 said:


> Ok. I have given it to a few of mine and will also give it to my younger ones. They are 10-12 months old (one is 7 months old). If they weigh between 10 and 18kg can I give them the 2g kid bolus?


I've dosed 10 week old Nigerian dwarf kids with 2 grams. They are never 44 pounds. More like 20 pounds. I've never had a problem with toxicity. 
10 kg = 22 lbs and 18 kg = 40 lbs. I would give them the 2 gram bolus if they were mine.


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## Jessica84

I did 2gm on my month olds too, also more like a 20lbs.


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## Bree_6293

Ok Great I will do them as well  was one enough for the older ones? They range between 26kg and the buck is 40kg. I think some might need another..


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## LadySecret

Bree_6293 said:


> Ok Great I will do them as well  was one enough for the older ones? They range between 26kg and the buck is 40kg. I think some might need another..


I'd give 4 grams to the ones in the 26 kg (57lbs) and 40 kg (88lbs) weight range.


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## Bree_6293

Ok. Will give them another as they probably needed it most. The buck has a fish tail so he is quite bad. Will give them another dose  thank you


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## Jessica84

Oh I'm so happy your here to translate kg to lbs lol
But I also agree with the 4 I give my weaklings the 4gr8 and they are usually from 40-60lbs. I never did see much improvement using the recommended dose, only when I said forget it and just gave a bit over (it saves my sanity on the lack of math too)


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## Shell2

janeen128 said:


> Yes, I would bolus again too. How many grams did you use the 1st time?


I gave them each 4 grams. I thought maybe since the mamas were pregnant that it maybe wasn't enough. I will bolus them again today. Just didn't want to give too much too soon. Thanks so much!!


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## Shell2

This is my buck Razor. Purebred Nubian. We purchased him in November 2014. The 1st pic is the day we brought him home. 2nd is in January. The 3rd and 4th are today. He has been getting loose minerals as well as being copper bolused in early March this year. He was definitely in need of some tlc! What a difference a little food and care makes!!


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## janeen128

Wow.. Good job


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## NyGoatMom

Awesome difference photos!!


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## mariarose

This is the best thread EVER


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## top_goat

Again -- "proof is in the pudding"! Great outcome with Razor!


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## HoosierShadow

I'm planning on bolusing our does, I think 2 of them are way over due, and the other 3 had them at the very end of January - I only dose 4gm. at a time. Right now none of them are on grain, so I figure it will be good for them.

I'm debating on doing the kids, they are 3-4mo. and on full grain, wondering if I should go ahead and give them a 2gm. dose each? 

BTW, we have boer/%'s, and use the kind from Ultracruz.


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## Bree_6293

I have bolused nearly all my goats now, but I have 2 does due in about 50 days. Is it safe to give them theirs now?


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## janeen128

Bree_6293 said:


> I have bolused nearly all my goats now, but I have 2 does due in about 50 days. Is it safe to give them theirs now?


I bolus all my does when they need it pregnant or not. It's safe


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## Bree_6293

janeen128 said:


> I bolus all my does when they need it pregnant or not. It's safe


Thanks  just wanted to make sure  thank you for all your help!


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## NyGoatMom

Here is another update on Alex...he just got bolused the other day.He is greatly improving!


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## Anne2

So how often do you copper bolts normally. I was thinking somewhere I read every six months. Mine were done in the spring...so I'm thinking its time. Also do you give grain that day I can't remember.


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## goathiker

Yes, you can give grain that day. How often you give them depends entirely on your area and other management. I was giving them every 3 months but, now that I'm using Replamin Plus, I am only doing it twice a year.


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## NyGoatMom

I give copper every 4 months. I feed the same as usual.


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## goathiker

Here's another before and after 
Before: Run down elderly doe from raising her kids. After: 4 weeks after bolusing.


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## Bansil

Okay after the thread I am now kinda worried

2 of our goats have what I would call shiney , slick goat hair

Now our little one he has the softest and finest hair...is this a problem? He has had this hair since we got him at 8 weeks old, we have had several months now I think

He seems happy and goes with us everywhere, no temp, fecal looks good last couple months, still building up his famachi rating (all of them)

His brothers facial bones and hair are totally different

Is he just absolutely cute and cuddly or deficient?


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## goathiker

Just cute and cuddly, even the twin does in my pics have 2 different styles of hair. The pure black and tan has short fine hair and the belted has thicker, longer, poofy hair.


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## Jessica84

goathiker said:


> Yes, you can give grain that day. How often you give them depends entirely on your area and other management. I was giving them every 3 months but, now that I'm using Replamin Plus, I am only doing it twice a year.


Jill I have a tube of stuff that is like the replamin gel, how often are you giving it to your goats? I'm still working on that stupid buck :/


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## Trickyroo

I was just going to ask that ^^^ I have a tube of that stuff as well and rather do that then bolus more often...


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## goathiker

It's once a day for 5 days then once a week after that...


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## Jessica84

Good thing I asked I was figuring just once a week lol I'll go with once a day now


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## happybleats

we just started using Replamin Plus..I sure hope it helps...my girls do look better but a few still have that singed hair look in spots...I copper every 3 months still until I see sleep shiny coats all around!


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## goathiker

Do your goats have cobalt blocks Cathy?


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## Jasmar

Where the heck do you get cobalt? I've asked around everywhere and can't find it. I saw one block online, but they wanted something like $30 to ship it.


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## Jessica84

Try your local feed store. I never knew either till I asked for a mineral salt and got home and looked and saw this freaky blue block back there lol


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## goathiker

You can grab one in McMinnville at Buccanen Cellers. Just call them ahead and they'll let you know when it comes in. They are like $7.


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## janeen128

Do you order the Replamin + through Jeffers? Could this replace the selenium vit E gel I use once a month?


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## janeen128

I just ordered from Jeffers 300 ml hopefully that is the correct one.


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## goathiker

Yep, I get mine from Jeffers. As long as it's the Replamin Plus not just Replamin it's the right one.


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## SeventeenFarms

It surprised me what copper does! within a week or two my gals looked, and were, so much better. I have been doing a dose every six months, yet may change to every 5 months, and maybe to 4. Seems 6 months may just be a bit too long a time span for mine, as they started getting that "ragged" look sooner.


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## NyGoatMom

I still need to get a cobalt block...how can you tell if they need it?


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## ksalvagno

You can't. It is one of those things that make a healthy goat look even better.


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## happybleats

> Do your goats have cobalt blocks Cathy?


no...I cant find it around here. :|


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## billiejw89

Here is Hans before, and 1 month after dosing. His colors have darkened quite a bit!


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## Trickyroo

I'll say ! ^^^ Wow !


Anyone ever check out The Jolly German website ? They have a lot of things you don't find elswhere....just saying.


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## ksalvagno

You can get a cobalt block on amazon. The shipping is expensive but it was the only way for me to get a cobalt block. Since I only have 4 goats, it will take a very long time for them to go through it. The results I have seen in my goats makes it worth it. I personally don't have time to experiment with giving powders or boluses or other forms. Putting the block out and letting them lick what they need is easier for me and has proven to be worth the shipping I paid. The block itself is very cheap.


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## FloatnRockRanch

I too swear by the cobalt block. Jill (Goathiker) told me to get one and I searched high and low. Could only find online and the shipping was horribly high. Fortunately, I discovered by accident in talking to another customer at the local feed store that they carry them, but you have to ASK for them. They are usually hidden away in the back area. Cost me $12 for a 50lb block.


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## janeen128

So, to cover all my basis.... Free choice payback minerals, kelp, & cobalt block. When the Replamin + comes should be here by next week, once a day for 5 days, then every week after that? Everything is okay for bucks too right?


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## Hannah21

So will they only eat the cobalt block,when they need it?


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## CCary

Forgive me for the following, but I need to, and, I don't understand this copper bolusing thing. Isn't there copper in Purina goat chow, which I use daily, on all my goats? Shouldn't this be enough? But, I do have goats not looking their best. Is this another "got it off the internet, so it must be true" thing? I fell for the diatomaceous earth ridding goats of worms, doesn't work on this farm. Would my vet be for, or against, this? I am for anything that will keep the worm loads down, and it does sound good. The pictures told a good story, also. Any help someone could give me would be greatly appreciated.


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## NyGoatMom

I copper bolus my goats 3-4 times a year. They get Manna Pro loose minerals with copper in it, and goat sweet feed that also has copper...I swear by the bolusing.Made a huge difference in my goats.


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