# Considering registered experimental



## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

She is a cross between a Sanaan and a Nubian. Her dam is producing almost 2 gallons a day. I don't know whether the dam is Sanaan or Nubian. 
Any thoughts on this cross?
I really want Nubians but it is looking more and more like Daffodil will go all winter alone if I keep looking for a purebred Nubian. This doeling looks Nubian, I don't even see the Sanaan. 
The ad says she is registered, can an experimental be registered?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. I recently got a Nubian/LaMancha cross and she is a recorded grade and is registered. Already sent in the paperwork and waiting on the registration papers.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I also have 2 Nubian/Lamancha crosses that are register able. I haven't registered them in my name though, I might soon though.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There is a big difference between Experimental and Recorded Grade. Sorry, pet peeve...I breed high quality Experimentals and they are fully registered on both sides. They also do very well in the show ring and the milk bucket. One difference is that my bucklings are also fully registered and able to produce more of the same experimental breed. Mine are never bred up to American. That's not what my goal is.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I may be using wrong terms but my girl came from registered full blood stock. Very good milkers on both sides.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

goathiker - please explain further. I think I am not understanding the experimental vs recorded grade either especially when bucks are concerned. I thought only purebred or American bucks were allowed to be registered.

I tried to find information on the ADGA site but I didn't find anything about being able to register Experimental or Grade bucks.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm interested too, Goathiker. So, if I am understanding this correctly you are breeding the experimentals with the goal in mind of creating something better than the two original breeds that stands alone in time as it's own breed? Correct me if I am wrong in my assumption. I hear a big difference to me in a recorded grade and a registered experimental. I have nothing against unregistered stock or mixes just my goal has also been somewhat different. Daffodil is an unregistered purebred and it doesn't make me love her any less, but if I am going to have kids each year to sell I just would rather have marketable kids. It just seems to make sense to me that registered kids would stand a better chance of not ending up in someone's freezer.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

That's exactly how I feel, Nubianfan, which is why I'm trying to get to where all or most of my (our) goats are registered. I just don't want them to end up in the freezer, or going to a poor home where someone assumes that just because the goat is not registered, then they aren't worth it. :/


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Believe me, registered goats end up in just as bad homes or in the freezer. You would be surprised how much people pay for animals and then neglect them anyway.

Everyone should look at the market around them and see what sells best in their area. An example is that my area is HUGE on showing dairy goats and there are many ADGA goat shows throughout the spring/summer/fall. So having ADGA registered goats gives me a bigger market to sell my goats. But when I have talked to Boer goat breeders, they say it is a waste of money to have registered goats because no one wants to pay the money for them. So many dairy people have registered stock and many meat goat people have unregistered stock in my area.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

you make a good point Karen. I know Nubians sell well around here but never thought about registered vs non. registered sales. Something to think about. Thanks.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

No one tests their goats around here (registered or not) so with that idea, I could forgo the expensive testing each year (2x per year) and still have a great market for selling my goats....

ok. that's just silly right? Around here untested sells just as fast as tested. IMO if you have tested and registered, you know what you're selling. If you wish to sell the goat without registration papers, you can lower the price if you choose at least. If you have unregistered, you don't have the choice.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I haven't tested any of my goats yet, (partly cause I'm broke :/) but I intend to and I will cull anything that is positive. I want to always have a clean herd.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Copied from another post so that I don't have to write it all out again...
Experimentals are not the same as grade. If you breed your LaMancha to an Oberhasli, then the babies are Reg. EX. All the kids bucks and does are eligible for registration. If you use that buck over PB, AM, or EX does then the kids are again are EX. The doelings can be bred to PB, AM, or EX bucks and have EX babies also staying within the 2 breeds. The breed up program only is for making EX into AM or trying to get to purebred in the case of LaManchas and Sables and that takes 5 or 6 generations. 
Here's the rules. EX are much different then grades. This is where you create your own breed.
G. RULES FOR ENTRY INTO EXPERIMENTAL REGISTRY

Experimentals are the product of the mating of registered American or Purebred parents of different breeds. The
mating of the Purebred or American parents of the same breed, whose offspring do not meet breed standards, or the mating of Experimental animals may be entered in the Experimental Register.

1. When both parents are in the Experimental Register.

2. When one parent is in the Experimental Register and the other parent is in the Purebred or American Register.

3. When both parents are in the same Purebred or American Register, but the offspring is not eligible for entrance in the Purebred or American Register because it does not conform to the breed standards.

4. When one parent is in one Purebred or American Register and the other parent is in a different Purebred
or American Register.

5. When a doe is in the Purebred, American, or Experimental Register and she has been exposed
during the heat period to more than one buck in the Purebred, American, or Experimental Register, either
naturally or artificially, the progeny may be registered in the Experimental Register under the following
rules: (1) The application must include the name and registration number of each possible sire and (2) The
letter designation of his breed shall appear in the appropriate place on the registration certificate.

My does are Alpine /Nubian EX reg. Section G bucklings are not excluded like section H grade EX bucklings.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Section H
*H. RULES FOR ENTRANCE INTO GRADE
EXPERIMENTAL RECORD (Females Only)​*Grade Experimentals are the product of mating Recorded
grade does or Grade Experimental does to Purebred,
American, or Experimental bucks, or may be from
unknown parents in the case of Native on Performance.
Females do not have to meet breed standards.
1. One parent is in the Purebred, American, or
Experimental Register and the other is of unknown or
unrecorded ancestry.
2. Sire is in the Purebred, American, or Experimental
Register and the dam is recorded as a Grade
Experimental or a Recorded Grade of any breed.
3.​​​​_The following rule has been suspended for 2013: _A
doe of unknown pedigree may be recorded as a
Native on Performance (NOP) Grade Experimental if
the doe earns the equivalent of her *M rating on
DHIA test. The individual doe lactation record page
showing the total milk, butterfat, and production must
accompany the application. The doe can be recorded
as a NOP and simultaneously be awarded her *M
status after the proper forms are filed and fees are​
paid.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Thank you goathiker.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

amazing that adga is so accomadating on registering experimentals but i cant breed up my nigerians. but if any of you nd breeders who are interested the IDGA will let you breed up your grade nigerians.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Nigerians have not been members of ADGA all that long yet. Getting them to accept the purebreds from AGS was a big victory in itself. 
People who feel that rules still need to change should get together and lobby for that change. 
Lets get the top height for bucks changed first though. There needs to be like 2 more inches added to maximum buck height.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I bought the registered experimental doeling! She is a BIG girl the buyer weight taped her and she is 78 pounds. She is 25% Sanaan and 75% Nubian. Her dam was 50/50 and her dad was full Nubian. She is cute but not as cute as Daffodil I will post pics later, she has already bonded to me. I walked to the truck and she came running bleating the whole way. Seller says I can breed her to her Nubian buck when she is big enough and comes into heat for a small fee. I am excited!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Congrats NubianFan That is a good sign if she's following you


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

She is a sweet girl a little mouthy but otherwise good. She is just so HUGE compared to Daffodil and they are only a month apart in age. She was a feb baby.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

That's exciting nubianfan! How old is she? I'm extra curious, 'cause I have a Nubian/Alpine doeling that is 74 lbs, so I'm wondering if that's a good size.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

She was born in February of this year. Let me go get her papers and see what else I can find out. She is mouthy in that she nibbles EVERYTHING, I walked her around the yard and let her eat a little and she nibbled my clothes, my daughters clothes, the chicken coop where wood is peeling, my fingers, Daffodils ear (Daffy wasn't happy, she reared up and threatened to butt Dru, pretty hilarious considering the size difference) She even nibble a piece of a clay flower pot. Crazy Doeling.

Okay she was kidded 02/16/2013 her sire is ORF ST/R Man-O-Man his sire is Kastdemur's Show and Tell.
Her sire's dam is Pruittville's Raspberry DL
Her dam is JLT Ranch Cinnamon her dam's sire was Two Ceders Vance and her dam's dam was Cooterneck Farm Romeo Bell
She is registered with the ADGA as an Experimental 25% Saanen 75% Nubian and described as Brown with tan trim and solid ears and pendulous ears.
Her registered name is Spring Renews Drusilla, she is called Dru for short.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

She also tried to eat her registration papers when the lady was signing them over to me, and actually did manage to rip the papers a little so I am hoping that I have no problems with the transfer since the "goat ate her papers" they are still very readable and only slightly ripped so I am hoping it won't cause problems.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Great pedigree.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Haha, that's funny! Silly goat. 
Well I feel good about my doeling now- she's five months old (born Mar. 13) 74 lbs., and I wasn't sure if she was big enough for her age.
Drusilla is a funny name. 
I have a teeny tiny Nigerian doeoling that will chew up everything! We joke that you could put your hand down to pet her and come up with a baby goat hanging off of your hand.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I got to meet her mother and brother and aunt so I got to see how her family looks when mature. Her mother is milking 13-15 pounds a day, that is nearly two gallons.


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