# They CAN'T! Can they?



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

So one of my island neighbors here swears that her feral nubian male goat, mounted her white wooly female sheep and a few months later.

A.... Geep?

She said that the mother gave birth to two babies. One looks like a white sheep, the other was a male, had brown and black markings, floppy ears, goat face and sheep eyes.

I asked for a photo!

I thought that it was not really possible for them to interbreed. I have female sheep out with my male goats based on this thought!


----------



## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

While it is EXTREMELY rare it can happen. Most result in abortions early on.


----------



## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

It is possible. I think it's like a mule, the geeps are not fertile, but the breeding can occur. There is a famous one, I think it was born in Germany or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep–goat_hybrid


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Very rare ... but possible.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes...xymenah is right, although very rare it does happen..Sheep belong to the genus Ovis and have 54 chromosomes, while goats belong to the genus Capra and have 60 chromosomes so the ewe usually aborts or lambs still born...any that survive usually die in short order..to have one thrive is extremely rare..but not impossible..i think they usually end up with like 57 chromosomes...and like a mule...infertile.. ???


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Okay, so I most likely do NOT have to worry about my sheep getting pregnant.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

most likely...but not possitivly hehe


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Well now I'm worried. I'm not worried about them giving birth, what scares me is them getting pregnant and aborting (or not and having a dead fetus in them) and getting sick. Maybe I'll have to put the sheep in with the girl goats only.


----------



## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

They normally abort early enough that if there is a fetus it is reabsorbed by the body.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we have our sheep running the front pasture...our bucks are penned near there and one ewe was flirty with my saanen buck..who is large enough to get out if he chose to...he was in full rut at the time..UGH...I too locked the girls back in their evening pen lol...


----------



## SavvyAcres (Mar 19, 2013)

> At the Botswana Ministry of Agriculture in 2000, a male sheep impregnated a female goat resulting in a live offspring. This hybrid had 57 chromosomes, intermediate between sheep (54) and goats (60) and was intermediate between the two parent species in type. It had a coarse outer coat, a woolly inner coat, long goat-like legs and a heavy sheep-like body. Although infertile, the hybrid had a very active libido, mounting both ewes and does even when they were not in heat.[1] He was castrated when he was 10 months old, as were the other kids and lambs in the herd.[2]
> A male sheep impregnated a female goat in New Zealand resulting in a mixed litter of kids and a female sheep-goat hybrid with 57 chromosomes.[3] The hybrid was subsequently shown to be fertile when mated with a ram.[4] In France natural mating of a doe with a ram produced a female hybrid carrying 57 chromosomes. This animal backcrossed in the veterinary college of Nantes to a ram delivered a stillborn and a living male offspring with 54 chromosomes.[5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep–goat_hybrid


----------



## SavvyAcres (Mar 19, 2013)

http://oddanimals.com/geep/
http://amazingans.blogspot.com/2013/01/20-cool-wild-hybrid-animals.html
http://www.backofthecerealbox.com/2010/09/some-hybrid-animal-math.html


----------



## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

The saint basset hound is so cute its wrong!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm trying to get a photo to share with you all. It has floppy goat ears but born of a sheep momma. She's contacted the local university for genetic type testing. She figured someone might want to study it.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

The correct term is a shoat, not a geep. A geep is a genetically engineered transgenic animal. 

Shoats are extremely rare. Often people think they have them but really it is just one of the more primitive type sheep like the katahdin, damara, barbados blackbelly etc. that look kind of like goats. 

I forget which way it works. Ram over does or buck over ewes, it only works one way but I never remember which it is. In one instance, offspring wont even be conceived. In the other instance they can conceive, but the majority will be aborted early in the first trimester. It is extremely extremely rare for them to go full term and survive. There has only been a handful born worldwide over many years.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

To be honest, I'm skeptical re your neighbour. To have a live shoat is so incredibly rare. Then you have the chances of the ewe conceiving to multiple males as well, since you think one is a lamb and one is a shoat. It is again possible but extremely rare for a ewe/doe to conceive separate offspring to two different males. 

So - extremely rare situation to get a shoat coupled with extremely rare conceiving to two different males - yeah I dunno. 

What type of sheep are they? Does the 'shoat' have a long tail like a lamb?


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

The shoat has a short tail, goat face, floppy goat ears. Brown, black and white with marking like his father (the nubian goat) mother was a white wooly sheep. The other male sheep is a white wooly sheep. I'm unsure what they are called.

We have a fabulous university here, University of Hawaii Hilo campus, which has a very intensive science department. I look forward to seeing how things fare. I'm waiting for a pic!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

It looks like I'm heading out to her farm on Wednesday to get some photos of this little boy! She is having problems with her camera so I offered to come and take photos (and I get to meet her and her livestock! yay!).


----------



## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

ok now I'm confused....I thought a shoat was a baby pig...


----------



## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah, that is what google.com said...


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I don't care what it's called, I'm excited for the opportunity to be able to see it and photograph it in person.


----------



## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Well I hope you post them for us to see!!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

of course!


----------



## MisWhit (Mar 15, 2013)

Did you get picture?


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I did! I'll post them tomorrow. I don't really know what to think. A white sheep ram and a white sheep male and a nigerian dwarf male were the only animals presnet. The buck born was tri colored and "acted" different than his sister.


----------



## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

LoL, I check this post every few hours looking for pics!


----------



## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Come.....on we need pics!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I am on the fence. He had some non sheep qualities, and her sheep are the all white woolie type sheep. HOWEVER that being said, I'm not convinced it's a hybrid. He was much different in personality as his sister. A white sheep. And the fact that he has a sister makes me even more suspicious. It's rare enough to have a sheep/goat hybrid but then to be impregnanted by TWO different males?

I think there's some colored sheep genes in there somewhere? I know that she's "always" only had white babies born on her farm and this is the first tri colored baby. And I know he looks different than his sister. His shape is a little different, his ears are different, they did flop down when he was born but they are starting to prick up now... Here's a link to a folder on my facebook of the photos.

Anyway, I'm no biologist so I have no idea. But my gut tells me it's a tri colored sheep.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10200167130875710.1073741829.1074499170&type=3


----------



## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

when i clicked the link it brought me to my own facebook page...


----------



## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

arrrg I'm not on facebook, can you post one here please please pretty please?


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Weird, here's some photos:




























His Momma




























His Momma and sister


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

When I click on the link, it just takes me to facebook, not yours. I could not find you on FB in a search.


----------



## MisWhit (Mar 15, 2013)

He looks hybrid to me. Even the sister looks a little bit odd to me.


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK I guess we posted at the same time.

He is adorable. I don't care what he is.


----------



## KerrieMarie422 (Mar 15, 2013)

This is amazing, he is a cutie!


----------



## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Hmmm... I think he is pure hair sheep. Doesn't look to me like it is half goat...


----------



## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Awwwww I agree, he's adorable.
Does he evrn remotely have the same colors as the ND buck?


----------



## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Looks like a lamb to me.


----------



## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

idk they both look a little odd and if the mothers only had white before then maybe they are hybrids


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Sylvie said:


> Awwwww I agree, he's adorable.
> Does he evrn remotely have the same colors as the ND buck?


The buck is a tri color with the black and tan legs like the baby boy.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

They look like pure hair sheep. They come in some crazy colors but IMO it doesn't look like a cross


----------



## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't know sheep very well but it looks like he has goaty legs and those colours... Hmmm

I'd like to know if they do end up doing a genetics test or something on him, I'm curious.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Seeing those odd spots of color on the dam... those random orange/brown spots on her side tells me that she likely passed on traits to her lamb and if she was bred by another sheep that had the genetics to throw color it may have taken both parents to have a lamb with those colors.... by themselves, they wouldn't have passed them on. Looks like a sheep to me and both are adorable!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I did hear that someone from the university is coming by to do some blood testing. I'm curious to see what it shows.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I know hair sheep fairly well... my ex raised them and I learned tons about them from him. They look like normal hair sheep lambs.... I think hair sheep look like goats anyway! They're adorable whatever they are!


----------



## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I would worry about the ram or buck injuring the does or ewes more than them having a geep. 

It is so rare that there is only 1 or 2 verified cases. DNA testing has shown most are just lambs. With mules, the donks and horses and zebras are all members of the equine species. With goats and sheep, they are 2 completely different species.


----------



## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

They look like typical hair sheep lambs to me.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

i am sorry but that is a lamb. i dont see anything.goaty at all and to be honest i udont understand why theyink its a hybrid. the colour? mum is coloured and its not uncommon for hair sheep to throw coloured lambs. even white sheep will throw back to colours sometimes. mum is a hair sheep and those are both hair lambs i would bet my money on it. i see nothing unusual aboyt them.


----------



## Mystica25 (Oct 8, 2012)

look forward to see what the results of testing are!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

keren said:


> i am sorry but that is a lamb. i dont see anything.goaty at all and to be honest i udont understand why theyink its a hybrid. the colour? mum is coloured and its not uncommon for hair sheep to throw coloured lambs. even white sheep will throw back to colours sometimes. mum is a hair sheep and those are both hair lambs i would bet my money on it. i see nothing unusual aboyt them.


don't be sorry. You know FAR more about sheep than I. I do however want to see what the blood test results show on number of chromosomes or however you spell that.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I just went back and read through the thread again, you said a couple times that the mother sheep was a white wooly type of sheep, she is definitely not a white wooly sheep she is a hair sheep. 

Those photos are beautiful btw, you did a great job


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

keren said:


> I just went back and read through the thread again, you said a couple times that the mother sheep was a white wooly type of sheep, she is definitely not a white wooly sheep she is a hair sheep.
> 
> Those photos are beautiful btw, you did a great job


then why does she get sheared? I have sheep (some blackbelly mixes) and they don't need to be sheared at all.

Again, I don't know much about sheep!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

lottsagoats said:


> I would worry about the ram or buck injuring the does or ewes more than them having a geep.
> 
> It is so rare that there is only 1 or 2 verified cases. DNA testing has shown most are just lambs. With mules, the donks and horses and zebras are all members of the equine species. With goats and sheep, they are 2 completely different species.


Why would a ram or buck injure them?


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Dayna said:


> then why does she get sheared? I have sheep (some blackbelly mixes) and they don't need to be sheared at all.
> 
> Again, I don't know much about sheep!


Alot of people shear them. She may be a cross between wool and hair. certain hair sheep have thicker fibers... if I'm corrects Barbados have very slick hair


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

My black belly mixes do have thick hair but it stays pretty short. See how little I know about sheep! lol I got mine for lawn mowers. I know people cringe when folks say that but it's true. I have an orchard and they work WAY better than a weed wacker!


----------



## MisWhit (Mar 15, 2013)

I know nothing about sheep! Didn't know about hair sheep! Lol!


----------



## MotleyBoerGoats (Mar 23, 2013)

yup it can happen we had a nigerian geep  lol she was cute her name was pearly sadly she was about 8 years old and she had a hard time with our old queen of the herd she got a blind eye from her and we ended up having to put her down since she got too sick


----------



## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Motley, how do you know she was a geep?


----------



## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

I'll go to petting zoos and farms and see some lambs that, because of the short wool, I can't tell what it is! But from looking at them and looking at those pics, those are definitely sheep faces. Nothing to me indicates goat. The color? I agree with liz. Both sheep could have some deep genetics in them to throw color, and it just decided to come out.


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the mom has a dark, definite red spot on her left side...which looks uni-formally round and not like a stain...so she is expressing color VERY minimally and just threw it big on her baby, probably because dad was hiding a gene for it. This happens in horses all the time...you end up with minimal frame overos (that don't LOOK like an overo even remotely, no body white) throwing overo babies here and there without being bred to a splashy dad...or horses who are born from "plain" parents that end up with loudly expressed splash overo, etc. etc.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Dayna said:


> then why does she get sheared? I have sheep (some blackbelly mixes) and they don't need to be sheared at all.
> 
> Again, I don't know much about sheep!


A lot of hair sheep will grow a small amount of wool, which they will then shed. So it is optional to shear them. Then if they are crossed with a wooly breed, they will grow much more wool. The first cross hair x wool sheep usually results in an animal that needs to be sheared, but second and subsequent crosses will all be shedders.

Here are a few photos of my damaras - a hair breed.

The brown ewe on the left is purebred and shows very little wool, she has slick hair like a dog or goat. The white ewe in the middle is a fourth cross and she has a little bit of wool along the top of her neck and back, which she sheds. The skewbald ewe on the right is also a fourth cross and grows a bit of wool all over, which also sheds.


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

keren said:


> A lot of hair sheep will grow a small amount of wool, which they will then shed. So it is optional to shear them. Then if they are crossed with a wooly breed, they will grow much more wool. The first cross hair x wool sheep usually results in an animal that needs to be sheared, but second and subsequent crosses will all be shedders.
> 
> Here are a few photos of my damaras - a hair breed.
> 
> The brown ewe on the left is purebred and shows very little wool, she has slick hair like a dog or goat. The white ewe in the middle is a fourth cross and she has a little bit of wool along the top of her neck and back, which she sheds. The skewbald ewe on the right is also a fourth cross and grows a bit of wool all over, which also sheds.


Your sheep are so pretty! Love the different colors.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks Dani  sadly I dont have them anymore, I dispersed my herd when I moved across the country for work. Looking back through these pictures has reminded me how much I love them. I desperately want some again but have to keep my numbers low while we are renting. One day I will have some more. Five or ten years down the track when we hopefully own our own place with a few acres.

Here's a closeup of the white F4 ewe's wool. The little black and white ewe lamb is a purebred. 









What I meant to say but forgot to on my other reply, is that the ones that grow a bit of wool, its optional to shear them. Usually the first cross needs to be sheared but the others will shed. We have some F3 dorpers at work that get pretty wooly but they do shed; if they havent shedded fully by the time we shear the normal sheep, we get the shearer to clean the dorpers up as well.

Just some more photos cos I like looking at them lol



















This is a 12 mth old lamb (incidentally a hermaphrodite), see how wooly she is? She is actually a purebred. Damaras will get a wooly "lamb coat" and shed it in their second year, after which they become slick. They might grow the occasional bit of fluff here and there but they never grow the full lamb coat again.


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Dayna said:


> Weird, here's some photos:
> 
> His Momma
> 
> ...


See you can see the tufts of wool hanging off her, and the rest is just hair like a goat because she is either shedding or she only grows it in odd places and not all over. My guess is she is shedding


----------



## IFFGoats (Apr 8, 2013)

Cool!!!! A Geep. That is sooooo cool.


----------



## FlyingFeetsFarm (Nov 28, 2012)

I think I had a goat breed with a sheep once. I took a Nubian doe to breed with a Nubian buck, the guy also had a bunch of wool sheep rams. He only had the one male goat. Five months later the doe had six babies! They all looked very weird and had curly hair and shorter ears, only one lived, the rest seemed to not know how to breathe. The one that survived was pure brown and wooly, he had horns with a curl to them. I never got any testing done but I am pretty sure he was a shoat.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

It doesn't look like a goat/sheep cross to me. Looks like a regular lamb. I think if it came out white, the owner wouldn't think anything of it, but since it has similar color to the buck, they're thinking it's a cross. But colored sheep aren't uncommon in many breeds and the sire/dam don't necessarily have to be noticeably colored to throw a colored lamb. Some patterns are recessive and sometimes the pattern is showing, but just so little, it may be barely noticeable. I do see a spot on the ewe...not sure if that's color or a stain.


----------



## Goatgirl21 (Jan 25, 2013)

GTAllen said:


> Looks like a lamb to me.


It looks like that to me too. Ive been having a kid a year with curly hair and by the time the reach about 10 montgs, no more curl. Its my boer/lamancha that threw the first one, then her curly daughter had a curly son. Bred to different bucks each time. Is there a sheep ram visiting farms? Lol


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Dang it...I need sheep now. Lol. I was never a big fan of normal white ones...but I love the colors! Excuse my ignorance, but what do you use hair sheep for?


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

firelight27 said:


> Dang it...I need sheep now. Lol. I was never a big fan of normal white ones...but I love the colors! Excuse my ignorance, but what do you use hair sheep for?


Usually meat sheep. I believe some breeds are used as milking but not sure which. I know sheep have smaller teats in comparison to their udder so they dont yeild as much milk and are harder to milk.


----------



## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Hair sheep are for meat. I raise my Shropshire/Oxford crosses as milk sheep.


----------



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Eeeh...Is milk from sheep good? Lol. Does anyone have pictures of breeds of shedding sheep? I've heard there are breeds that you use for their hair/wool but instead of having to shear them they naturally shed? And do they come in multiple colors?


----------



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Sheep that shed their wool have very coarse wool that isnt really useful for spinning etc.


----------



## SavvyAcres (Mar 19, 2013)

My neighbors have white hair sheep that look very similar to goats in my opinion, they had lambs this spring and one of the babies was colored, still that baby is too cute whatever it may be and I wish I had it LOL i love my neighbors colored baby also.


----------



## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Did they ever figure out who was daddy?


----------

