# Dog advice?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I've started to post this several times in the past couple of months, and would delete or just not post.

My 5yo daughter has been wanting a dog for a LONG time. All she talks about, draws, etc. are dogs, her walking her dog, playing ball, etc. When she plays she pretends she is a dog.
Well when we sold the doe she used to show in fairs this summer, Sparkles, she asked if she could get a dog, and I said maybe for her birthday.

Her birthday is Oct 4th, so it's quickly approaching.

My husband doesn't really want a dog, but then he's just not the type to have a 'pet' without a 'reason' if that makes sense.
Besides this will be for the kids.

It would have to be an outside dog.
We have a large enough fenced in back yard, it would just need a gate to block off the entrance to the back yard. 
We do have a dog house, and could probably in the future make something up under the deck especially for cold winter nights.

I want a breed that is safe for kids and goats. We want a puppy, not an older puppy or a dog.
My favorite breeds are German Shepherds and Collies. I've owned both when I was young and they were great dogs. My German Shepherd was said to have an 'aggressive' pedigree <she was bred by a man who supplied dogs to the police>, She turned out to be the best dog I have ever known in my life. She was gentle with animals she knew 'belonged' and she would chase of anything that didn't belong. She was great with the cat, bunnies and chickens, and absolutely loved small kids/would follow them around everywhere they go to make sure they were 'protected.' 
I could just go on and on...
Anyway, I would love for my kids to have a relationship with a dog like that. One they can have fun with, but also one that is protective in a 'smart' way. But I also want one that can go out with the goats pen without worry.

I dont want a really large dog like a Pyrenees, they are great dogs, but way too big/hairy and are LGD not a child's pet. At least the ones I've seen.

My issues with shelter dogs are - if they've been abused, or how they may act around the kids/goats. If it's a young puppy I'd consider it, but since this is for my kids I want to be cautious. The last dog we adopted in 2005 was probably about 4-5 months old when we got him <lab/mix>, he was very sweet, but absolutely would not listen no matter what, and if you tried to work with him he'd close down and act like you were killing him so I definitely suspect he was abused. We ended up giving him to an older teen girl who had lost her dog to old age.
I dont' want to go through that again, so yeah I'm a little leary.

Anyway, just thought I'd get some opinions, maybe breed advice, or any other advice for considering dog shopping as it's heavy on my mind this morning.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

This is probably nothing like what you are looking for but ... after researching livestock dogs looking for a dog that could be a "pet" as well as safe around goats, I stumbled upon the Old English Sheepdog. They are supposed to be very calm, gentle, and sweet.


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## meluvgoats (Apr 19, 2012)

I have a yorkshire terrier. She is a gorgeous little dog with a temperement to match, some people say they can be selfish and jealous (the breed) but "coco" is a great hardy little thing and is absolutely brilliant with kids and animals. I can try and get some pics later, PB not working properly at the moment :roll: She trained herself to be a guard dog too! When going up to my goats she comes up with me and when my nanas dogs come up (they always bark) she growls at them to make sure they dont bark LOL! The goats love her!
We also have a Springer Spaniel named Robbie! He is too a great dog to have, he is great with kids too and is very protective of the family!


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## foot (Jul 17, 2008)

...Border Colie or Border Colie x Australian Shepered... They are both smart and potective...But please do not have an outside dog...Let the puppy be a best freind to you all...We here have them both....We have 5 dogs here and they all run with the animals when we take them for their walk...We to have all of our feilds fenced in.


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## BlueEyedFainters (Aug 18, 2012)

I disagree with 'outdoor only' dogs.. Dogs are pack animals and NEED that human contact- to be kept outdoors is a punishment in their brain because you're seperating them from their 'pack' (family).. It's comparable to you banishing your daughter to her room for being bad to teach her a lesson. It makes for harder training, less bonding, and a crazy/confused animal.

I do animal advocacy, work with multiple rescue groups and have 4 dogs myself: all rescues. 1 Rottweiler/Husky, 1 German Shepherd, and 2 Pitbulls. ALL are considered ***aggressive breeds*** and I sqwak at their label. With the correct training, and correct interaction/handling, ANY breed can be an amazing companion. My pitbulls do best with children under age 10- go ahead and cringe. They are all balanced, well mannered, trained companion.

Now back to breed selection- All dogs can be trained, all dogs are smart. Small dogs tend to be 'cocky' because their owners think because they're small they don't need training, wrong. I see this so often in my rescue work it's ridiculous. People tend to focus their training with bigger dogs because an out of control large dog will do MUCH more damage than a small dog. A dog is a dog, regardless of size. All dogs require training- some train better than others based on their breed lineage. You can train a German Shepherd to corral your cattle faster than you can train a Llasa Apso to because the shepherd was bred for natural herding instincts- Llasas.......not so much.

Select a breed based on their natural instincts- and BUILD off of that. You want a natural protector for your children, a herd animal that will wrangle up your goats IF YOU TRAIN IT TO- I'd highly recommend either a German Shepherd or an Australian Shepherd....but not to be kept outdoors. Section off a place in your house for the dog- train it to stay there. As long as the dog feels 'part' of your pack, it will be easier to work with and bond with your family thus being more apt to have that protective nature you're looking for.

I can go on and on.. I won't. I might be new to goats, but I'm near expert with Dogs (with the degree to back it up). I think it's great you want to get your kids a dog- I think all kids should have a dog. It not only teaches them responsibility, but it also teaches them respect for animals.

Just to share- this is me with my 4 lunatics... I love them all and wouldn't trade them for anything.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Border collies are beautiful BUT that drive to chase is (herd) is bred into them and very hard to restrain, loyal, smart and protective but not a dog for active kids or goats.
I hear you about shelter dogs....sad that so many end up in shelters but not knowing how they were treated/raised is a cause for concern especially with young children.
I've had cast offs here...2 to be exact and they were just dumped and left to fend for themselves, Petey was a chow/sheperd mix, absolutely the best dog I have ever had...protective of me and his property, gentle with kids and my goats and he was an outside dog...we tried to bring him inside and he chewed through my garage door to get out so he made his choice. He was aroundd 5 when he chose us and we had him for 8 years...the other we had just 4 months and was a spaniel mix, smart as a whip and just a very loyal pup...we had her 4 months when she decided to chase a truck up the road and got hit.
Toy breeds are cute but I would fear injury with playing with a young child...... I do think that some of the best dogs I've been around have been mixes, not those "designer" type dogs but the "oops" A Retriever or even a Lab would be kid friendly...or even one with a mix of the 2. If you do decide to go with a shelter pup...some places do offer a trial period as far as wether or not they would be right for your family....but all shelters I believe are against keeping a dog outside, regardless of it's home. An older puppy may be best if you want an outside dog...one that is almost a year old because a young pup would need the security and socialization of their humans to be the best dog it would turn out to be.
My current 2 dogs are inside...a fat little Beagle mix that I rescued from a strip mine 5 years ago and a pointer/ heinz 57 that is turning 4 that I rescued from a litter of malnourished pups, I had an abused Cocker Spaniel for 17 years before he passed 2 years ago...loyal and loved kids but he was a real chore to groom.
Any dog will want to be with their human 24/7 but there are only a select few who are actually happiest when kept outside...finding one will be a challenge, The farm just up the road from me has a female black lab/cocker spaniel mix, medium sized and she has always lived outside...she has free roam, of the farm, never caused any issues with my goats and has her bed on the porch of the farm house and in winter she has a bed in the garage...extremely loyal and she's been happy the last 12 years living the way she has.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I too recommend either a border collie or and Australian Shepherd. Better yet to have these dogs mixed with a calmer dog such as a golden retriever. 

Our dog was the toughest puppy I have ever raised. She is an odd mix (German short hair pointer/Australian Shepherd) But is the best/smartest dog we have ever owned. The Australian shepherds are hard as puppies. The standard obedience books dont always apply to these types. I finally figured out that we had gotten the lead dog of the litter. That has been a good training for me to know how to survive her pup years. 

As for the goats.- any dog can find it a fun game to chase these goats. It took us quite an extensive training time with our pup to keep her from chasing these goats. 

Also: Dogs are smarter than goats- they know this & don't take well to being put in submission under them as it is against their nature so I try to give our dog respect with that and not allow the goats to push her AT ALL and she is not to chase them for fun AT ALL. We always let our dog know that she is above these goats for privaleges. She also knows that they can smack hard and now we scold 'one' goat for coming at the dog.. I finally let our dog snap at her and that has helped the 'order' a lot. It just takes a lot of observing to watch a puppy with the goats- help puppy find his place- know what he can do- and keep interference for puppy's sake too as some goats will hurt/harm a dog. (especially a pup)

All Aussies will have this thing in their brain that makes them always try to figure out what the chain of authoritiy is on the property. they will always be wondering about this. I think all dogs do this but our Aussie is constantly testing this. She has each goat all figured out and knows that she gives the queen goat her space. 

Your kids will love a dog- It will be such a good memory. Dogs bond so well with kids. It will be a hard time for about 6-8 months of training but it will be so very worth it.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Blue Eye Fainters:

Awesome photo of you and your dogs. Thanks for sharing that. Very special. I am a dog person. Goats are my humor pets.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Check out craigslist and the bargain trader for mixes... a border collie/aussie mix could work well as long as you give it a job. A golden retrivier is normally a good bet as long as the breeder is responsible (that goes for any breed.). I personally love bully breeds but they can be hard headed and stubborn... theres also that gamey tendancy thats not great for livestock. I have a a mastiff mix and a boston terrier... bostons are great for inside homes and do really good with kids. But again, their gamey.

My mastiff is a rescue I got when he was 9months old... best dog ever! He came to me skinny and scared of everything. He was scared of men, loud noises (anything from a raised voice to fireworks to car horns), leashes and water hoses. I've had him for two years now and he never once offered to bite anyone. He's gotten over most of his fears except the water hose. I have a five year old brother and he adores him... we send him outside with Diggity and know hes safe. He likes to watch the yard and protect it... thats kind of his job. In my opinion rescue dogs are the best dogs... once they trust you that trust can't be broken. He's definately my best friend and my baby. I'd encourage you to go for a shelter or rescue... thats just me. There are plenty of puppies in shelters that would be perfect for you guys... plus they come fully vetted so you don't have to worry about spay/neuter, shots, microchip ect.,


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If we had the attitude of only wanting a inside dog... there wouldn't be a lot of dogs taken in.....I do disagree strongly and think it is cruel... if an dog owner will chain or tie up a dog...and forget them....they should have a nice sized fenced in yard... to be able to run and play.....with a companion ......and a good dog house or shelter to get into... Plus...not all dogs are house dogs..... some rather be outside.... 

I have a Anatolian.. he is very happy with the goats....is not alone.... loves my family just the same....I can have my Grand children out there with him...
.If a dog is raised around the family and the goats... they love and protect them..... part of the pack.... :wink: 


The thing with a puppy ...you have to watch a train him or her ...for at least a year....correcting... if the dog wants to play with the goats.... 

With all do respect... the border collie will want to work the goats and will run them to death... it is in their blood...they are not wanting to hurt them.. it is a dangerous passion for them... to work...
The German Shepards are working dogs as well... they in the past were herding dogs....so... if trained properly there is a possibility....but ...as I mentioned.. if it is a puppy... you will have to watch every minute while they are growing and learning....and the pup cannot be left unattended with goats...puppies love to play and the pup like that ..may play to rough....

It isn't logical... for a LGD to be in the house... if they are bred and raised to watch and protect his or her goats.... Or any other dog... that you are wanting to protect the goats.... With LGD's they love being with their goats.... :wink:


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## foot (Jul 17, 2008)

.. I disagree with Liz sorry but I do agree with Bluehillboers..We also have 5 rescue dogs and some are Sheperd mixes and some are Border Colie mixes .some are the 57 veriety ..But they all are well behaved .they are all Spayed and Nueted.. Yes males and females here. Great pics of your dogs BlueEyedFainters.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow lots of great advise, I really need to re read everyone's posts and absorb it all in 

BlueEyedFainters - that picture is beautiful! You are beautiful and your dogs are so beautiful too  What a great portrait!

Okay I started writing this and it turned into a book LOL So I'll try to rewrite so it's not so long.

I would love to have a small inside dog, but I don't know if it's going to be an option.
My son has allergies, he was blood tested for them and is allergic to cats/dogs. He can't handle cats at all, he gets asthma type symptoms, we went through this while visiting family back at Christmas and never want to go through that again.
dogs, I haven't noticed as big of an issue, but the only dogs he's really been around at all have been outside dogs.

Potty training. I plan on getting a job sometime soon, and I don't want a puppy/young dog stuck in a crate all day while we're at work. My issues with having an inside/outside dog is fleas/ticks/dirt/smell. Of course we'd treat an outside dog for fleas/ticks. 
My husband and I were both raised in homes where dogs were an outside animal. My husband moreso than me, he may not come off of the 'no animals in the house' with the exception of...a bird lol

Every dog I've owned was an outside dog and they were all happy dogs. They got the run of the property, and I was always outside playing with them, taking them hiking, working with them, etc.

Our back yard is big enough for a dog to run and play. The goat pen is literately right behind and beside the house so the dog will always see the goats unless they wonder back into the woods.
I wouldn't allow the dog to be with the goats until we think it's ready, that's after basic training commands, and lots of leash time in the pen mingling with them to see how it responds.
I'd like a dog that can be alert to predators and strangers too.

The only exception was the German Shepherd I had as reguards to house dogs. When we moved out of the city into the country she preferred to be outside. She was very protective of the property and animals. The only time she wasn't happy was if kids came to visit and weren't outside playing with her! 
This was taken a couple of years before she passed away....









I think outside vs inside does depend on how much time you spend with your dog too. My #1 rule even with the goats - if the kids want animals they MUST spend time with those animals. Right now, every day after school they have to spend at least an hour with them, grazing them, etc. then it's the feeding routine, and on weekends they spend more time with them. Summer time we're always out with them, even if we're out in the woods working/cleaning up the land, the goats enjoy being out with us. I could see a dog having a blast running and playing with the kids, plus if we go places I want a dog we can load up in the SUV and take with us - to the parks, or wherever  
I've observed my 5yo when she had her goat that she was showing, and she was with her goat all the time, always outside playing with her, loving on her, walking her, etc. If it hadn't been for this, i wouldn't consider the dog idea yet.

So much to think about


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## meluvgoats (Apr 19, 2012)

-Coco is a great inside/outside dog
-Never sheds a hair
-never bites

after reading the last post you wrote I would strongly recommend a Yorkie!
Goats (at least mine :wink: ) dont even glance at her because of her size.
We housetrained her by if we caught her "going to the toilet" we would give her a tiny slap on the nose and firmly say No. She has not "went to the toilet" since


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## foot (Jul 17, 2008)

...Stick with the goats....Forget dog.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Wow lots of great advise, I really need to re read everyone's posts and absorb it all in


 :wink:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I disagree with 'outdoor only' dogs.. Dogs are pack animals and NEED that human contact- to be kept outdoors is a punishment in their brain because you're seperating them from their 'pack' (family).. It's comparable to you banishing your daughter to her room for being bad to teach her a lesson. It makes for harder training, less bonding, and a crazy/confused animal.
> 
> I do animal advocacy, work with multiple rescue groups and have 4 dogs myself: all rescues. 1 Rottweiler/Husky, 1 German Shepherd, and 2 Pitbulls. ALL are considered ***aggressive breeds*** and I sqwak at their label. With the correct training, and correct interaction/handling, ANY breed can be an amazing companion. My pitbulls do best with children under age 10- go ahead and cringe. They are all balanced, well mannered, trained companion.
> 
> ...


 Have you heard of Ceaser Millan Dog Whisper? 
He has 100's of dogs...not kept inside and are well loved and cared for.... He is still their pack leader... :wink: :thumb:

I do love that picture.. it is very nice....


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I like having our dog inside. She has short hair. However.. we had a dog when our kids were young that was an 'outside' only dog and she was content to be this way as long as she could be near the house and see us. Oh.. sure we would let her in once in a while but she really didnt mind being outside most of the time. She was a border collie/springer and was terrified to stay inside the laundry room for some reason. So slept in the dog house or on a blanket by the door in her older years. She was a very happy dog and loved all our boys so much.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I have met many very happy outside dogs. As long as they get daily interaction and attention (same with our spoiled goaties) the outdoor dogs I've met thrive.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I have a lot of Ceaser Milans dvds. He has the best balanced training for dogs I have ever seen. People make the mistake of not understanding how a dog thinks. He gets right to the heart of the dog issues that people misunderstand. I hate seeing people on those dvds loose their house to the dogs and the dog won't get off the furniture. That just bugs me. Ceaser helps these people treat their dogs like dogs and stop them from expecting them to act like a people.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

For your sons allergies- some people like a poodle for this reason I am told as they don't have the dander problems. (Not sure on that) but i know they dont shed. The big poodles are fun happy light hearted and smart dogs but I am not sure they handle cold weather well so them being outside would need a good lil shelter. 

Yes.. I've seen border collies - they can be great dogs- trained tho - for a particular reason and need strong supervision. 
If you get a weird but awesome mix like our dog.. the dog is confused and her german short hair side trys to get the goats to chase her. They don't play that game well. We had the dog before goats so it took a lot of consistent work to keep her from chasing them. She does so well now. 
I always like to encourage people with this philosophy: The dog is for you- for your family- for your needs and for your enjoyment and not the other way around. People get that backwards at times and then they havent a clue how to enjoy the dog by trying to always meet its needs. A dog is happiest being 'your servant' instead of the other way around.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

As someone with extensive dog experience ( groomer, train, show in agility) I will recommend against a bordr collie or aussie. As well as the collie. While great breeds, what you describe you want, these dogs will get bored being in a yard by themselves and that leads to trouble. Consider one of the doodle breeds that have become popular with allergy sufferers. Just do yor research. I have been a groomer for 18 years and have met some that don't have the best personality. And that can be any breed. I don't think with kids a yorkie may be your best choice either. A drop of a small dog could be fatal. Just my 2cents


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Well.. it is true- Aussies are a lot of work to keep busy. VERY NEEDY in mind activity. We have a wonderful dog but I sure put a lot of time into this dog more than any dog we have ever had. Her puppy mind was always active- always needing to be working on something. You have probably seen our Shiloh pop up on these posts. She is an unusual dog because she fits in all sorts of categories. That is why I like mixed breed dogs. Aussies are great but not for a first timer unless you have time to train well.


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## Boergoat1234 (Jun 8, 2012)

Blue Heeler's are my favorite! But I couldn't keep her outside.


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## BlueEyedFainters (Aug 18, 2012)

toth boer goats said:


> Have you heard of Ceaser Millan Dog Whisper?
> He has 100's of dogs...not kept inside and are well loved and cared for.... He is still their pack leader... :wink: :thumb:
> 
> I do love that picture.. it is very nice....


Ceasar Millan also keeps multiple dogs, in a pack, outdoors, in a climate that permits it year round, with hours upon hours of training and continual support of that training. I just don't agree with it- but to each their own. I live in NY- our climate does not permit year-round outdoor housing. As it is I'm already freaking about the goats being 'outdoor animals'. Maybe my dogs are just too needy, or maybe I'm just a sucker for a pre-heated bed at night??! :laugh:

In regards to your sons allergies.. I'm highly allergic to dogs too :shrug: but I'm around them so much that it's like I've developed an immunity. I know they say with those who are allergic to cats to get a kitten, handle it frequently, and as the kitten grows- your body develops a tolerance to their dander. You'd still be allergic to the neighbors cat, but not yours.

and thanks for the compliments- I do love my pack of crazies!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Love the pics.. so cute and a very happy camper.... :laugh: :wink:


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## pennyspasture (Dec 22, 2011)

We just got a new puppy about a month ago after looking for several months. What we got is an english shepherd; they are considered to be the "old farm collie." Bred to be an all around farm dog, they are great at herding, but don't go overboard like border collies sometimes do; they are also bred to be the family pet, and were bred for some hunting. Ours is super smart. I was raised with the full size collies and prefer large breed dogs, but my hubby like smaller dogs, so we have a compromise in this breed as they are a medium sized dog. Mostly, you just need to take your time and do lots of research to find the breed that is just right for your family. Hope you find the dog of your dreams!


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Packhillboers, hae you heard of trieball? Look it up on you tube if not. It is where dogs have a ball like that and they put it thru the goal. A little more then that but that's the "jist" of it. I really like the mini aussies I hae seen at agility trials.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

dobe627 said:


> Packhillboers, hae you heard of trieball? Look it up on you tube if not. It is where dogs have a ball like that and they put it thru the goal. A little more then that but that's the "jist" of it. I really like the mini aussies I hae seen at agility trials.


Oh.. I havent heard of that before.. I will check it out. The exercise ball was a way of helping our puppy wear herself out. She would herd it everywhere and had a 'ball' but as she got older she discovered how to pop these so we now use balloons as a fun game for her.

This dog can do agility courses really well and has been to a proffessional agility course and trainer- who really is impressed with our dog. I tho't to have her perform in agility-but it takes a lot of time. She is just a fun dog. I am thinking to have her involved involved in a perscription pet program-especially for children who have reading disabilities. Shiloh loves to sit and listen to reading and pictures.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

As for all dogs.. we get what we put into these things. Some dogs are going to take a lot more work. Some will take a lot more rehab to make into a workable family pet than others. There are some breeds now that are bred more specifically for the all around family type dog. All dogs will take a lot of training as puppies but some are just going to baffle us and need a lot more. Our puppy was one of those but for us.. we had all our sons moving out- my parents moving next door- and my father became very ill. This dog got the needed time from my father and all of us to make her into a good dog. Sadly- I think the rest of her siblings went to the pound as they were very hard dogs to manage and keep home. I could not leave her unattended for even one minute as a puppy without her getting into trouble. (Opening doors-even knobs..-even the slider to go outside.. opening all gates.. latches.. and clips off of gates.) An escape genius. She was not allowed off her leash or 15 ft from my side outsied for the first 6 months of her little bratty hard life. Then one day.. over night.. she bonded to us FINALLY.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

I know all about agility, I show in it in 3 venuesi Akc, usdaa and cpe) so I am at a show almost every weekend. We train 2-3 times a week. It ddoes take time but so worth it. We have titles in every venue too.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

I have no idea what might be good for you, but just wanted to say that a very small dog, like a yorkie or a miniature dachshund sized dog, first of all cannot be left outside and it probably not going to be so good with kids. Also, the individual dog matters too, not only the breed. It's a really hard thing to be sure about before you are into it.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

please dont get an aussie or BC unless you plan on having EXTENSIVE training done with it. And nto just your average "sit" "Stay" stuff. THey need expert trainers to work with you and the dog to make for a happy dog and owner. Also they are WORKING dogs and if they dont have a job they go crazy. I speak from first hand experience only. 

Growing up only had outdoor dogs (even had one who REFUSED to come inside) but now our dogs are indoor/outdoor and honestly if I had a choice they would stay outside! not a fan of animals in the house.


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't know if you have a good dog trainer in your area but if you do they can be a wonderful resource for questions and dogs. Both of my daughters have been in our local 4H dog project for the past 5 years. Our 4H leader is a wonderful dog trainer and is very involved with other trainers in our area. She has several rescued dogs of her own and is wonderful at helping others find good rescue dogs that fit well into a family, always taking into consideration the animals that the dogs will be near and the family members or animals the dogs will live with.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Okay, this is gunna be a longggg one!

Growing up, my grandparents always had German Shepherds as their farm dogs. Alot of people have mentioned on this thread that they are gentle with the animals that "belong" and take care of the ones that dont belong. Our Shepherds were always with my grandad 24/7 except at night where they were put into a building to guard. Intelligent animals, easy to train.

Australian Shepherds... I currently own an Aussie. He is purebred Aussie with working bloodlines. Just turned 7 and is as hyper as ever. NOT the average dog. RIDICULOUSLY intelligent. And HYPER. They HAVE to have a constant companion and job or else they WILL go nuts. My dog has been trained in agility (we've never competed, just backyard fun).

Anyway... It's your choice  Do your research and get opinions and information from breeders about their animals


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Here is a great site to learn about different types of dogs and their temperaments/health and breeding info. dogbreedinfor.com.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Best dog I ever had (hard to say, I've had some good dogs), was a Border Collie. However, it's not a dog for a young child, it's great for older children, two or three children can usually keep one busy.

I don't agree with keeping dogs outside, either. Deprives them of the family, if you can't have them indoor/outdoor, don't get a dog. 

Look into the "non shedding" types. We now have Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers. Very sweet Irish farm type dog, doesn't shed, LOVE children. Wait till you see them learn they can herd the goats around. Such fun. About 40lb range. Very easy to train. I also would look at the Standard Poodle, very smart, a little bigger, also non-shedding. Neither dog is a huge "barker". Stay away from Terrier types, mostly non-shedding, but the barking/energy will drive you nuts!

I'm sorry I couldn't take the time right now to read every ones posts, did I see someone has a dog allergy? Don't believe the "hypo-allergenic" claims...generally speaking...you will see symptoms with any dog. They may be less, but they will still be noticeable. :thumbup:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Candice, I think you need a mixed breed dog and not a specific breed type. We had a border collie mixed with a springer spaniel and it was the best dog to have with kids. The border collie part will be hard as a puppy tho but they grow into great adult dogs eventually... and need to have lots of work but the Springer.. loveable and easy going (outside dog)


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

packhillboers said:


> Candice, I think you need a mixed breed dog and not a specific breed type. We had a border collie mixed with a springer spaniel and it was the best dog to have with kids. The border collie part will be hard as a puppy tho but they grow into great adult dogs eventually... and need to have lots of work but the Springer.. loveable and easy going (outside dog)


I can attest to the mix of Springer/ Border Collie.... I had my Daisy Mae for 4 months after she was dropped off here, best behaved dog, obeyed commands well and loved my nephew and niece, she was around 6/7 months old when we lost her  It was very easy to housebreak her too, she spent a good deal of daytime outside but was inside at night and when we went to work. Did I mention that she was very well behaved?


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Awe .. that's neat Liz that you had that same mix. Must be a good mix. I have seen one at the dog park here with that mix.. unusual but mixing a cow dog and a bird dog isnt so bad .. 2nd time we ended up with it and its been great mix.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I will have to look into that mix 

We're still trying to decide what to do, we don't want to jump into it without thinking everything through  
So far we've decided if we don't get a dog next month, we'll wait until spring. If we all agree on an outside dog, we don't want a young dog/puppy coming into the winter. 
There is so much to consider  
A small dog that can be inside/outside would be great though, one that is small enough we can load up and take with us when we go places. That's the relationship I'd love for us to have with a dog. 
First thing I need to do though is get my son around dogs, see if it affects his allergies as much as cats do. I don't want to get a dog meant for indoors or in/out and then him not be able to handle it. I want him to be strong, but I don't want his allergies making him miserable and making it so he needs to use a breathing machine or inhaler all the time. Praying dogs don't have an affect on him, the goats don't and horses don't seem to bother him either. Our hay doesn't bother him much, again so far it's been cats. Poor kid gets within 10 feet of a cat and his eyes start to get red and tear up  Shame of it is, I LOVE cats, I'd love to have a house cat, I had one for 11 years and he was my best friend.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> I will have to look into that mix
> 
> We're still trying to decide what to do, we don't want to jump into it without thinking everything through
> So far we've decided if we don't get a dog next month, we'll wait until spring. If we all agree on an outside dog, we don't want a young dog/puppy coming into the winter.
> ...


I'm the same way as your son. Tear up around cats, fine around goats and horses. I hate to say it but I did notice a great improvement on my allergies after our sweet lab passed ... I used to use an air filter next to me because I was constantly clogged up. One Shadow passed away, I noticed a change almost instantly.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> HoosierShadow said:
> 
> 
> > I will have to look into that mix
> ...


That's my worry, and I don't want to stress him out and have him feeling bad all the time. He gets little flair ups as it is, not very often, but enough that he gets a wheeze going and needs to use his breathing machine to clear it up. Thank GOD the goats don't affect him.

Well.... this evening while grazing the goats up front a man eating dinner at the restaurant next door came over with the sweetest little puppy! My husband had my daughter come get me and we talked.
Apparently his friend is trying to find homes for the rest of this puppies siblings, they are Pyrenees/yellow lab mix, and are I think 10-13 weeks old. He was very polite, and said he saw the goats and thought about the rest of those puppies because they don't want them going to bad homes, and I believe he said they live on a goat farm.
We exchanged phone numbers, and he offered to bring the remaining puppies over so we could see them. The one he got from the litter was just a doll 

So we'll see what happens! The kids are begging, and begging....


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Now.. Candice.. that sounds like a good mix for your family's needs. ... hmmmm.. hmmmm. Not a bad mix at all. hmmm hmmm.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

packhillboers said:


> Now.. Candice.. that sounds like a good mix for your family's needs. ... hmmmm.. hmmmm. Not a bad mix at all. hmmm hmmm.


Thanks Merry! First thing my son said this morning 'We're getting a puppy' lol I told him not to get ahead of himself just yet. Then while waiting for the school bus, he kept saying if he brings them over you'll get one right? I told him 'we'll see' and he said there is no see about it, we're getting one, haha 

If the others haven't found homes, and we get one, then I know I'll have a ton of questions, especially about introducing it to our goats.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

There are no safe breeds. There are only well socialized, well trained dogs. . A well socialized, well trained dog takes repetitive successful exposures to different places and people, as well as consistent handling and training by someone who wishes to invest time to produce a mentally sound dog. Your child can not do this. Your husband will not do this. It will be up to you. And of course, you can do it! If you are willing to spend time every day with those things you can find success. If not, then the consequences of a poorly trained and socialized dog await you!

Someone wrongly posted above that border collies don't wish to harm farm animals. An untrained, unsocialized, uncontrolled border collie will pull down and kill animals as well as a pit bull or a fox terrier. All dogs are wolves in pup clothing. How they are selected and then handled, socialized, and trained is what makes them a dog.

Confining your dog to the back yard with an unwillful spouse and an unable child puts the burden of training and socialization on your shoulders. The well being of your child, your child's friends, and the dog are all important.

If you want a companion dog, buy a companion dog. A dog bred by someone on purpose for that purpose. Both sire and dam should live in a house with a child and show that they can accept that.

Advice from someone who makes their living with dogs. With a spouse, infant, and toddler near dogs.

If you would like to contact me directly you can do so through our website, http://www.thestockdogcompany.com


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

There is a husky breeder who is our neighbor -- she uses her dogs for a sled team. Her huskies are outside all during the day (brought into crates for bed time). Sweetest, best behaved dogs. They are loved, and they know it. They get plenty of love and attention, they just stay outside, and they have no desire to be inside. Just my two cents, not trying to be argumentary. These dogs are healthy and happy, and are outliving many other dogs around the area. 

Their owner is not only a breeder, but a trainer, so she knows what she is doing. (=

Edit: The new wording was very well put. I'm sorry I misunderstood your meaning.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Whoa... now.. there .. Stockdogcompany. You do have good advice but need some softer touches in how you give it out if you really intend to help someone. A lot of people are not as well trained in how to handle dogs and I do agree that people do need to learn how to train their dogs.. so it just needs to be delivered with a bit less scolding going on. It is very frustrating to see people expect too much from dogs that have not been socialized or trained... but we have to gently help people see this problem. I do feel where you are coming from as I have had my fill with 'dog park' untrained 'bad' dogs & wild loose uncontrolled trouble dogs of our neighborhoods. It is a bad thing and is certainly becoming a problem as owners all just think.. they can have a dog and expect it to turn out fine without any training. But Candice is willing to do her homework to find a dog that she can work with. Which is why she has asked for our help. She and her family will do fine with a dog.. I am sure as they love all animals and try to learn where they are coming from.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

*patti @woodhaven*

Huskies were bred and selected to be outside. And to do draft work. And the huskies you mentioned are being kept and worked at what they were bred to do. Kudo's to their owner.

I was replying about a "companion" dog. To the original post.

You are comparing apples and oranges in a passive aggressive manner.

I have lots of herding dogs living in outdoor kennels. But they get fulfillment of their selected herding drive regularly. Much different. I also have failed herding dogs who are companions. They are socialized, trained, and fulfilled in a much different way in person at my home.

My advice is straight forward. I have edited my original post to "soften" it for our California friend. I work with body language and intonation, neither of which can be transmitted here. Print is the jabbering of primates without the benefit of any of the true communication we transmit with our bodies.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I will repeat myself, you will see symptoms with ANY dog if you are allergic. I sold a puppy to a lady that said she was allergic...but the children wanted a puppy so bad she was willing to take the shots. 2 days later she called and said that her son had an allergic response to the puppy and they had to take him to the hospital and he spent 2 days there. He woke them up in the middle of the night gasping for breathe. I immediately refunded her money and got my puppy back. But, it was a very scary situation for them.

This was with a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier...said to be hypo-allergenic...but not by me! An allergy is to the skin dander, not the shed hair, all dogs have skin.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

thestockdogcompany said:


> You are comparing apples and oranges in a passive aggressive manner.


I didn't mean to come across that way, so I appologize. I was just speaking from experience, there are several breeds of happy dogs around my area that are mainly kept outdoors. That's all I was aiming for. I know that there are different dog breeds (and individual dogs!) that have different needs.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Stockdogcompany,
You did very well in your re-wording. I know how it can be to try to express ourselves in a straight-forward way in writing only. It has taken me a lot of practice on here to be better at how I word things as I have come across wrongly & so direct at times. I do truly understand where you are coming from tho. I do feel that people truly need to be careful in not having the wrong dog for a companion. I have seen some very sad Border Collies and Aussies out there that have been so misunderstood and deprived.. made to be apartment or city dogs.. at which they are not meant for. In the North state.. here- where I am from, Stock dogs and dog training for such is quite popular as people have sheep and large/cattle ranches and I grew up near these types of ranches. Amazing dogs.. You do well with your dogs. Awesome! 
I think Candice has now been more informed of the problems of owning such type of working dogs. and this needs to be made known by people who desire a family dog.. A BC or Australian Shep, it seems will only work well if it is one of those .. 'accident' breed mixes that we were fortunate to find to have for a companion dog/family dog and even then.. the training required for even a mixed 'mutt' of these sorts may require more than a specific companion bred dog. You have good sound advice.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

*@woodhaven*

Accepted. Let's just help our original poster pick a proper dog! And successfully and safely socialize and train it.


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't have enough replies posted to PM you, so ...if you ca, contact me. 
I think I might have what your looking for. We have a very special pup... I can discuss it with you.

We have 12wk old Border Collie-x pups.... I might be going your way to deliver 2 pups toward NY the first week of October.
*Click here for pups photos.*


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I tried to post the other night, but must have accidentally pushed the wrong button because I don't see the post.

We got a puppy Thursday night  She's one of the Great Pyrenees/Lab puppies I mentioned in one of my last posts. She's around 11 weeks old, and is just a sweetheart 
She seems very good natured, and I hope she stays that way  She's a bit scared of the goats, but not as scared of them as they are of her :laugh:
We're getting her around them as much as we can, and hoping to get the young does used to her a little more, since they aren't as mean as the adults. 
She's been staying in the barn in a stall at night, she can see the young does through the wall, so she's not alone. I would rather have her outside all the time, but she's sooooo little....
I've been busy at the horse sale all week last week, and over the weekend we had company, so we haven't had time to puppy proof the backyard <just need a gate or something to block off the back yard>.
The kind of gate I want to get <farm gate, wide enough for a truck/roll hay/etc. to fit through>, she can easily get out of since she is so small, so I need something else temporary until she gets bigger.
For now I've puppy proofed the little goat pen next to the house so she is close to us. So that's been my only obsticle, I want her safe and plenty of room to run.

She was covered in fleas when we got her, so we've taken care of that. She needs to be wormed, and get her shots. I plan to go to TSC to get that stuff.
Now the kids need to settle on a name so we can really start working with her and getting her used to her name. My 5yo daughter wanted to call her Bella, but then she changed it to Pinkie Pie LOL!!! <My Little Pony>, I told her to save that name for a goat, haha...

I may be rusty, as it's been a while since I've had a dog or puppy, but I grew up with them, they were all outside -backyard- dogs and all wonderful dogs. I'm not someone that just throws a dog in the backyard and that be that, as I had seen comments about that.
I thought i"d also mention that my husband isn't into pets, but not against having one. I won't deprive my kids of the opportunity to have a pet just because my husband isn't into them. My mom and dad weren't always into our pets, yet they were well loved and always cared for.
We aren't perfect, we won't do everything perfectly, but we'll do the best we can for her.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Pictures are a must!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What about putting fencing over top of the gate and holding it up with cable ties. Then when the dog is large enough and you don't feel like you need it, you can easily remove the fencing.

Congrats on your new dog. You will have to post pictures!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, we might end up doing that  She loves being on the back deck, and I know it makes her feel more secure too. It's raining today and possibly tomorrow too, so I have to put everything on hold for now 
Poor baby, wouldn't go into the dog house, so I had to put her out in the barn so she wouldn't get wet and cold.
She's happy now I am sure, as hubby and the kids took her out as soon as they got home and took her back in the woods with them and the goats, she loves it back there 
I spent all morning with her until I had to come in and get some things done. Once the rain is gone, I'll start with the basic training, but she's so young I don't expect too much too soon. 

I will definitely post some pictures later this evening when I get more time, I put a few up on facebook, but hadn't had a chance to get the rest off of my camera. 
With the horse sale stuff I've been swamped. I've taken around 70GB of photos, that's the fun part of course, the hard part is sorting, editing and doing whatever I need to do with them LOL


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Candice, I'm so happy for you. That sounds like a great mix for you all. I was hoping you would get that puppy. You will all do fine with your puppy. Your kids will give her all the love she needs too. -a great outdoor doggie too .. probably a fluff ball right now.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

She sounds wonderful! I bet she'll have a great life with you guys.


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

B-EFainters...what a WONDERFUL picture!!! how many "shots" to get that special _one_???


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

"What about putting fencing over top of the gate and holding it up with cable ties. Then when the dog is large enough and you don't feel like you need it, you can easily remove the fencing. Congrats on your new dog. You will have to post pictures!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Congratulations on your new dog:leap:...it's sounds like you are starting off just right ) Yes I agree!! ...you can rig all sorts of temporary fencing to plug up small holes with pieces of fence and zipties. Remember to teach her to wear a harness and to harness/ground tie. That's an important skill for when you hit the "chasing" phase (LGD pups can go thru "phases" of behavior challenges: usually 5mo, 8mo, 12mo and 16mo). Proper nutrition is SOOOO important with LGD breeds. Use a very excellent quality of large breed puppy food that has zero corn. It will protect her hips/joints/bones. Make sure she does not get any Lepto shots until the correct age (too early can harm/kill). Lepto is in the 7-way at TSC. It's for when she is older and almost finished her 5-way beginner series. MICROCHIP her!!! G.Pyrs (like some other LGD juveniles) can sometimes wander (they "adopt" extra acreage). Having her microchipped (plus wearing a tag) will get her back home to you if found.

POST PICS!!

(yes I know....I sound like a know-it-all....just trying to help avoid some of the problems we faced/learned-from when we were brand new LGD owners too.)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much  
I will pick up the 5 way, I was wondering which one I needed to get, so I am glad I didn't get the 7 way at the feed store today.

We may get her microchipped when she is older/when she gets her rabies shot.
I definitely will be getting a tag and a collar. The large dog collar I use on the goats is too big for her lol

We absolutely can not let her wonder off of our property, there are other farm dogs, and horse farms behind us that wouldn't appreciate it. And though we live in the country, we live on a busy road and everyone speeds.
So we have to keep close tabs on her.

During the day she was getting really lonely, so I put Wysteria and Lyrica in with her - they are 7mo twin boer does. They are the best match for the puppy, and the puppy is in their regular pen.
Anyway, it's been great so far, I watch them like a hawk, they were together all day yesterday. Wysteria walks up to her and sniffs her, completely lost in curiosity, while Lyrica is the nutcase LOL
It was soooo adorable, the puppy and Wysteria went nose to nose, her long tail just wagging like crazy and she liked Wysteria on the nose and she just looked at her like 'okay...'
Of course she will always be surpervised and I know as she gets older she'll go through growth spurts in every way. 
She knows the bigger goats are meannies, and she keeps her distance from them. 
My husband and the kids are outside for 2-3 hours every evening during the week, been working in the woods a lot, and so it's a perfect opportunity for them to work with her. Of course all she wants to do is get in their way 

I haven't had a chance to take new pics, but here are a few I put up on facebook the other day.

My 5yo reading a book to her


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Such a sweetie 

I'm sure that she'll be a much loved and enjoyed part of your family for years to come :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Liz  So far she's doing very well. She seems to be getting used to going into the pen with the twin girls, and was so happy to see them this morning as I was leading them over to the pen, she stopped in front of them laid down, wagged her tail then leaned up and was trying to lick one of them on the nose. She jumped up at her a little, she was just so happy, and the goat never moved, but the puppy minded her manners. 

I do think she has ear mites  She's scratching at her ears way too much. I've had a dog in the past with the same signs, took him to the vet, he was diagnosed and I was told what to treat them with, so I'm going to get some medicine from a local feed/pet store - the woman there will know exactly what i need 
Going to get her 5 way and wormer as well. Otherwise she should be good to go until we take her in for rabies shot when she's a little older, and we'll have her spayed when she is old enough. 

I'll try to get more pictures this afternoon. I just haven't had time to get more, been so busy running and trying to get things done.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What a cutie!


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

HoosierShadow said:


> I do think she has ear mites  She's scratching at her ears way too much. I've had a dog in the past with the same signs, took him to the vet, he was diagnosed and I was told what to treat them with, so I'm going to get some medicine from a local feed/pet store - the woman there will know exactly what i need .


Smell the ears...take a sample with a cotton ball. Smell yeasty? labs and Pyrs/Maremmas other dogs with ears that hang down...are prone to yeast infections in their ears.
I spent weeks with earmite cleaners/drops on my Labrador and it didn't clear up. Took him to the vet...it was yeast infection not mites.
He scooped out a part of his ear goo with a cottonball and smeared it on a white paper towel. He said " If it was mites...you'd see tiny white specks in the discharge". And the yeasty ears do have a certain kind of smell...you can tell it's coming on if you sniff your puppies ears throughout her lifetime.

I have heard of homemade prevention remedies to keep droopy-eared dogs' ears clean and dry in between occurrences. I did look them up online.
...but the treatments for the actual infections I have always gotten from the vet, didn't want to risk the dog's hearing.

Recently I came across an online blog from a gal who had an Aussie with chronic ear infections (several times a year). She took the dog off of chicken based foods and gave her rabbit based diet, and she said her ears cleared up. To try it, I took my dogs off the commercial chicken based diet and went back to the commercial lamb based diet and voila....clean dry ears, less occurrence of yeast infections. She must have been on to something. We do feed homegrown chicken in homemade food...I don't think that's the same thing as commercial chicken dog food.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

She is just a cutie.. i think she is a great match for your fam.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Merry  She's such a sweetie.

Thanks for the advice on her ears. I didn't notice any kind of smell at all, and used some of the drops in her ears yesterday morning and didn't see her stop and dig at her ears one time! She also has some sores/scabs behind her front legs, hard to notice them if your not feeling/looking for them. I rubbed the itchy areas with baby oil and again I didn't see her itching at all. 

She's doing great with the goats. Only one is terrified of her and wants to run away. The others get spooked if they don't notice her come up or while she's running or playing, etc. She goes out in the pen with the twins every day and I haven't noticed any behavior from any of them to be concerned, yet, anyway 
She absolutely can not be left unattended with the older goats. Yesterday afternoon my husband/kids came in to eat real quick before they went back out to feed. She was in the main pen with all the goats, and our meannie herd queen was trying to bite her  

The kids still have not settled on a name! The only one my 5yo had said was 'Bella.' So I guess that's what we'll call her if a decision isn't made today. 
She's too cute not to have a name lol
But I also want to train her and it's kind of hard to do without a name. She needs to learn the basic commands. I've already started with 'come', 'sit' and 'drop it.'


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I am so excited for you. She is at a perfect age too for you to have her with you. Not too young .- not too old. She will go through some various bratty stages as all puppies do- usually at 5 months or so. She is at that gentle stage now for her age. My queen Doe doesnt like our dog either and I have to watch the goat around the dog. Shiloh trys so hard to be nice to her. They all listen up when she barks an alert and know she is 'their protector'.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh. and I have no idea why chicken is a problem for so many dogs.. but it is for our dog too. Extreme poo problems from it. Something to do with the process of the meat.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Merry  So far she's been great. Getting out of the gate to the pen she stays in during the day has been the only problem, but we 'might' have it fixed now LOL My husband tacked some chicken wire over it, and lined bricks along the bottom so we'll see what happens, little stinker 
She is just fine during the day being out with the twin does though, so that's a big relief. We'll have to watch for any naughty behavior, but so far so good.

I posted in the Other pets section of the forum about possibly having mites, just in case some didnt' read my posts here. I'm treating her with the ear mite meds and that seems to be helping. But she has scabs behind her front lets, and something going on between her back legs. I rubbed baby oil <all I had> on those areas and that seemed to really help.
Just not sure what I could do to possibly get rid of the problem if it is mites? I'd like to try and treat it ourselves and if it doesn't get better we'll take her to the vet.
I used Permectrin based powder on some goat kids who had mites on their ears/front legs a couple of years ago and it worked great, wonder if I should try some Permectrin II spray on the areas? And work the few scabs that are there loose and clean the area real good.

I didn't get to come out and play with her yesterday, the kids and hubby were out with her and the goats. I went out this morning and she was whining and crying as she stopped at my feet, her tail wagging like crazy and she was so happy to see me! Made my heart smile so big knowing that she missed me!


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