# ADGA Certificates: Recordation vs. Pedigree



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Does anyone know the difference between ADGA's Certificate of Pedigree vs. their Certificate of Recordation? 

I registered 5 doelings last August and got the certificates of recordation in pretty quickly. At the time I didn't even read them properly and I thought they were certificates of pedigree. Just last week I got a thick packet from ADGA with all five doelings' certificates of recordation--again. This time I noticed the "recordation" wording at the top and compared them to what I already had and they were the same. I'm not sure what this means. I assume I should eventually expect proper certificates of pedigree eventually if ADGA can get their technological woes sorted out, but I really have no idea. Can anyone clarify?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sure someone here knows the answer.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I can't speak to the ceritificate of recordation - I've only received certificate of registery. Are these perhaps recorded grades or experimentals? As to the duplicate..... I just received my 2nd set of registration papers (duplicates) for three of my kids today. I don't know why.......... they do tell you to destroy earlier copies and keep the most recent. This is a big mess.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

The reason why is a glitch in the system they had like 10,000 papers and they didn't know which ones had not been kicked out and they had multiple requests for paperwork and so they just printed off and sent them all and said to destroy the oldest dated one and keep the new one. This whole thing has been a giant disaster can't imagine how much that just cost and there are so many programs that still aren't working right. I think they're finally getting the registration and right I know I still haven't heard anything on milk test stuff not even a one day that we did back in May. I also don't know without going home and looking at my papers what that particular difference is but if it's the same as what you already have then you're just supposed to destroy the old one and are we supposed to send it back whatever they told you to do.
There's a whole blog that one of the ladies on Facebook did on this current mess with paperwork regarding these 10,000 certificates.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

I'm going to tack on the memo and then I'll put some pictures of the post I don't know where it came from cuz I'm not on Facebook a friend sent it to me. I don't know how to do it on my phone except for with pictures so here goes.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Hopefully somebody can answer you on the whole recordation part if not you might want to send them an email to [email protected]
Or you can try calling, but that is almost pointless right now. Of course support takes forever too it's just still a disaster and we're about to hit another major kidding season in fact it's already started in South


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Here


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

goatblessings said:


> I can't speak to the ceritificate of recordation - I've only received certificate of registery. Are these perhaps recorded grades or experimentals? As to the duplicate..... I just received my 2nd set of registration papers (duplicates) for three of my kids today. I don't know why.......... they do tell you to destroy earlier copies and keep the most recent. This is a big mess.


My goats are both recorded grades and experimentals, but so are almost all of my goats going back years. Yet all of them have had papers that say "Certificate of Pedigree" at the top in a fancy font. The papers this time say, "Certificate of Recordation" in plain block print. They look like a temporary registration or something. 

Of course I sold three of the five does along with their certificates, so now I have certificates for goats I no longer own. There's no sense in mailing these updates to the owner. She probably mailed her copies off ages ago with the transfer information on them so I think in this case I should probably throw the new papers out lest we create even MORE confusion for ADGA. What a nightmare. 

I hope I eventually get the proper pedigree papers for the two doelings I kept.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

TripleShareNubians said:


> Hopefully somebody can answer you on the whole recordation part if not you might want to send them an email to [email protected]
> Or you can try calling, but that is almost pointless right now. Of course support takes forever too it's just still a disaster and we're about to hit another major kidding season in fact it's already started in South


I was going to call yesterday but they weren't in the office yesterday, and I'm going to guess that you're absolutely right about it being a waste of time to call them even when they're in the office. I have the luxury of not really needing this taken care of so I don't think I'll bother ADGA right now. They shouldn't be wasting time on me when they have far more important breeders to deal with at the moment.

Thanks for your help, guys!


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Damfino said:


> I was going to call yesterday but they weren't in the office yesterday, and I'm going to guess that you're absolutely right about it being a waste of time to call them even when they're in the office. I have the luxury of not really needing this taken care of so I don't think I'll bother ADGA right now. They shouldn't be wasting time on me when they have far more important breeders to deal with at the moment.
> 
> Thanks for your help, guys!


It's not wasting time on you. Everyone in the registry is important. The problem is they can't seem to get this straight. So are they recorded grades like somebody asked? It's weird I'm not sure what it is. You're not talking about the four generation pedigree that usually comes with papers though they haven't figured that out yet they say are you?


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Seriously that you could send your question to the support address I just sent you and eventually you'll get a reply if you're not in a hurry then that would work. If you ever do get an answer let us know.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

TripleShareNubians said:


> It's not wasting time on you. Everyone in the registry is important. The problem is they can't seem to get this straight. So are they recorded grades like somebody asked? It's weird I'm not sure what it is. You're not talking about the four generation pedigree that usually comes with papers though they haven't figured that out yet they say are you?


Yeah, they are recorded grades and experimentals, but these papers are different from past ones, which are also for recorded grades and experimentals. They look exactly like the regular registration papers with generational info, etc., but the heading at the top says "Certificate of Recordation" in a plain block print instead of "Certificate of Pedigree" in the fancy, scrolly font. 

I'll do as you suggest and send an email to their support box and see if I ever hear anything back. 
Thanks!


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

I sent the questions to a couple of people I know and if I hear an answer I'll let you know. But I sure would like to hear what the registry says.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

I reached out to the district rep and here is his reply.
All grades and experimentals should say 'recordation'... they are recorded in the registry, not registered because they are not American or purebred. 
Yes the font and format is very screwed up on the new papers


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Hmm... interesting. All of my recorded grades and experimentals going back to 2012 have papers that say "Certificate of Pedigree" until this year. I wonder why they changed.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

No idea. Maybe that's the question you could ask to support and eventually get an answer for. That's all I can tell you that he replied to me and he was I think still is one of our directors that he might have changed this year. I know he was talking about being frustrated and wanting to not do it again.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

After all their screw ups, they are raising some rates! I am almost considering not even registering anyone anymore- No time to show, the buck kids go for meat,
a lot of the doe kids are out the door at 3 days old. Plus registering 40 or 50 kids is expensive- I am so tired of their nonsense. 

I had a Certificate of Recordation for 2 wethers that were 4H pet goats. The County Fair required some documentation that showed the tattoos- that was what ADGA send. 
Non breeding stock identification.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

I just got another registration today I'll look at the two. I think they screwed up and sent mine twice!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Last time I emailed for support the ticket got closed without response. Put in another email and ticket I think it was 3 months before response and question still unanswered. Pretty sure my next kids will go through ags instead. 
Sorry this is happening to you.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

K.B. said:


> I just got another registration today I'll look at the two. I think they screwed up and sent mine twice!


They probably did I've got three today alone that are duplicates and I had to go through and check the issue date cuz they want you to keep the most current one and two of the ones I had were more current and one wasn't. Next I've got to go check that they didn't charge me twice like they did two of my friends. 
It's gone from a disaster to totally incompetent disaster. I don't understand why over 10 months later it's still so screwed up. And then they're raising rates like you said.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

My Recorded grades have papers that say Certificate of recordation. Hmmmmmm, that's what they have always said. I wonder what the difference is? Instead of the blue (for American or purebred) they are brownish. What color are yours, Damfino?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Triple Share, they raised the rates earlier this year. The online registrations and the paper mail in ones were the same price- 8.50 because of the nightmare of the new program. Now the paper application is what...12.50?, and the online is 8.50?


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Triple Share, they raised the rates earlier this year. The online registrations and the paper mail in ones were the same price- 8.50 because of the nightmare of the new program. Now the paper application is what...12.50?, and the online is 8.50?


I know the online went up a dollar and I think the same thing with transfers. As to paper applications I don't know. I haven't done one of those in a couple of years I've sent them with people that have bought goats that don't want to pay me 20 bucks and have me do it, but I haven't done it myself.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

lottsagoats1 said:


> My Recorded grades have papers that say Certificate of recordation. Hmmmmmm, that's what they have always said. I wonder what the difference is? Instead of the blue (for American or purebred) they are brownish. What color are yours, Damfino?


My papers are almost all brown because I rarely have purebred anything. Looking back at some of my blue papers, they say "Certificate of Registry" at the top while my recorded grades and experimentals all say "Certificate of Pedigree" up until 2021, at which point it changes to "Certificate of Recordation". And they dropped the fancy font. I liked the fancy font--it made the papers look so official! 

Oh well. It's probably nothing important. Just a linguistic change. It just threw me for a loop is all.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Damfino said:


> And they dropped the fancy font. I liked the fancy font--it made the papers look so official!


Forget the fancy font making it look official- I liked how the old registrations had seals of authenticity that didn't look all pixelated and counterfeit 😂 

I've been sitting on my keeper doelings all year waiting for ADGA to get their act together. I finally just went ahead and registered them online yesterday, so fingers crossed! The only doe I registered via mail-in registration came back with errors (EID location omitted and wrong color- but hey, black and white is practically the same as chamoisee, maybe no one will notice 😂) but pedigree info and tattoos are correct so I'm hanging onto them for now! If I send them in for corrections, who knows if I'll ever get them back!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

The Certificates of Identification which I get for my pack wethers have the best seals--a proper foil stamp! They're so nice and shiny!


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Damfino said:


> The Certificates of Identification which I get for my pack wethers have the best seals--a proper foil stamp! They're so nice and shiny!


AGS has actual foil seals too- so much classier! Which registry are your Certificates of Identification through? I had heard that ADGA offers them but that they've been suspended while the NG mess is ongoing.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I sure hope ADGA gets their act together- I wonder if there isn't more going on that we don't know? No one's computer programs take
that long to fix. (I wouldn't think).


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Goats Rock said:


> I sure hope ADGA gets their act together- I wonder if there isn't more going on that we don't know? No one's computer programs take
> that long to fix. (I wouldn't think).


They said early on that the original people kind of ghosted them. I don't think that's a very legitimate excuse especially at this point unless you've hired the most incompetent people imaginable who had to learn to write code etc from the very beginning it should not have taken almost 11 months and counting.
I have no idea what's cost them, but I know it's costing lots of us money and frustration.


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## FarmerDad (Apr 28, 2021)

TripleShareNubians said:


> They said early on that the original people kind of ghosted them. I don't think that's a very legitimate excuse especially at this point


As a former software engineer, I have to disagree. First off, I doubt the ADGA hired a professional, reputable firm. Otherwise ghosting wouldn't have happened. My guess is it was either a member or a friend of a member sort of thing. Like how my mother used to tell her bosses all that time that she could get her son (me) to "write a program for that." 

One of the first things that a new team has to do is become familiar with what the original team did. In a large project, that could take a month. If the original code is chaotic (we used to call it spaghetti code because path you take to follow what's happening jumps all around and would appear like a plate of spaghetti if you drew lines between each part), it could take months just to figure out what went on before. Add to that the scope of the project, in general, and I can see it taking time to correct.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

FarmerDad said:


> As a former software engineer, I have to disagree. First off, I doubt the ADGA hired a professional, reputable firm. Otherwise ghosting wouldn't have happened. My guess is it was either a member or a friend of a member sort of thing. Like how my mother used to tell her bosses all that time that she could get her son (me) to "write a program for that."
> 
> One of the first things that a new team has to do is become familiar with what the original team did. In a large project, that could take a month. If the original code is chaotic (we used to call it spaghetti code because path you take to follow what's happening jumps all around and would appear like a plate of spaghetti if you drew lines between each part), it could take months just to figure out what went on before. Add to that the scope of the project, in general, and I can see it taking time to correct.


I can see it taking time to correct it just seems like an awful long time since in February it'll be a year.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

For a professional business, they sure don't have their act together- and as a consumer with tons of $$ tied up in goats and registrations and a dairy 
business, their ineptitude is totally ridiculous. 
I think that one of my biggest complaints is that they will not answer the phones- I know, Covid, etc. But, they could get people to just answer the phones, they 
don't even do that on a regular basis- Oh well, nothing us peons can do, but hope they get it all figured out, soon!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I friend of mine who is a total ADGA newbie had questions about registration last fall. The ADGA rep who answered the phone gave her a curt, rude partial answer and hung up the phone. There's just no excuse for that!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Damfino said:


> I friend of mine who is a total ADGA newbie had questions about registration last fall. The ADGA rep who answered the phone gave her a curt, rude partial answer and hung up the phone. There's just no excuse for that!


Wow, guess I won’t be trying to call either as I am a complete newbie to it as well. I have to say, so far, I’m not impressed with them. I’ve done everything online so far and nothing has gone smoothly or quickly and all I’ve done so far is become a member, get a herd name and tattoo assigned. Just that took months and included a lot of confusion. I am dreading trying to transfer my girls to me and dragging my feet because I keep thinking this will all be worked out soon. Of course, I’ve been saying that since I got my girls in May.


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## FarmerDad (Apr 28, 2021)

Sad thing is -- I like the idea of doing all my paperwork online. It's just... well, even if I understand the possible issues behind the software development, there are a lot of other areas where ADGA is failing miserably. I have two "tickets" opened in their troubleshooting system they want us to use and, as near as I can tell, they haven't been looked at in months. I've sent them a fax and I've tried to call. No service really makes them useless. One of the farms I've gotten goats from have switched all their registrations over to AGS. Now I have to switch or dual register anything I get from her or stop getting goats from her... :/ But their service was great!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

FarmerDad, find out who your ADGA representive is in your area, contact them directly. If you don't know- I'll look for the last 
ADGA quarterly paper that they sent out.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

@Damfino … I was the one that bought your doelings. I haven’t sent in the registration papers yet. 😳 I was kinda hoping ADGA would get their act together first before I dealt with them again, but I’ll need to get it over with by April when Diamond and Opal (originally Ruby) are likely due. Sigh. I wish ADGA would implement a backup system, like going full paper or turn the old system back on while working out the known issues in the new system.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

singinggoatgirl said:


> @Damfino … I was the one that bought your doelings. I haven’t sent in the registration papers yet. 😳 I was kinda hoping ADGA would get their act together first before I dealt with them again, but I’ll need to get it over with by April when Diamond and Opal (originally Ruby) are likely due. Sigh. I wish ADGA would implement a backup system, like going full paper or turn the old system back on while working out the known issues in the new system.


If you weren't sending transfers in and we're just trying to register. I might just forget about it and actually register them online. That seems to work if nothing else does. It seems like most things that got sent in on paper though are lost in the mess.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

singinggoatgirl said:


> @Damfino … I was the one that bought your doelings. I haven’t sent in the registration papers yet. 😳 I was kinda hoping ADGA would get their act together first before I dealt with them again, but I’ll need to get it over with by April when Diamond and Opal (originally Ruby) are likely due. Sigh. I wish ADGA would implement a backup system, like going full paper or turn the old system back on while working out the known issues in the new system.


Well hello! I hope you can get the mess worked out with ADGA. I have extra copies of your goats' registration papers in case ADGA loses the ones you have! Let me know when (if) the transfer goes through and I'll destroy these. Until then, I'll hang onto them just in case.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks! Here's hoping!


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