# Judging time!



## Texaslass

First is Danielle French Alpine, 1/8 Toggenburg- 5 years old
the first pics in front of the red barn were taken about 4 hours before we usually milk- the last two of her udder (side and back) were taken right before we milked her.
I know she has a weak chine, a steep rump and her udder is not attached well at all. (oh, and yes, she is just a little lopsided- not sure, but I think she's just that way- we've always been very careful not to let it get overful on one side) and perhaps her medial is too defined?
Other than that, I think she seems decent, if not very good as a dairy goat, but I'm happy to learn! That's kind of why I'm doing this. 

Next is Jacqueline, PB French Alpine- 5 years old (They had the same sire, and were actually born the same day.  )
Now I think J's back arches a little where it shoudn't,
also I think her neck could be a bit longer
Her rump is steep as well, but not as much as Danielle
I think she could use a bit more brisket and a bit more depth
I probably got everything wrong, I'm just testing myself .


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## Texaslass

And Suzi, five year old American Alpine (I think)
She definitely need more brisket, and maybe a longer neck
other than that, I don't really know. You tell me!
I couldn't get any of them to pose correctly, sorry! They are not show goats.


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## Texaslass

Oh, and of course Cinderella, my sweet Nigerian doe. :lovey:
As well as Alan Breck - Nigerian buck -Ella's bred to him, so I'm wondering if they are a good match conformation-wise?
I know he's not set up right and doesn't have a haircut, but he's shy and hard to catch. 

Oh, I should add, I don't know Ella's due date (I bought her bred), but I don't think she's more than a month away from kidding, so that may alter her appearance somewhat. 

Edit: I totally forgot to say that Ella's 6 years old, and has had kids several times before, don't know how many. And Breck's just over a year, and has sired kids already.


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## Texaslass

And last but not least, Storm Cloud, registered French Alpine, around 3 months old.
I was wondering if he's a good match for the first two does I posted, since we will most likely breed him to them in the fall.


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## Goat_in_Himmel

Looking at your Nigis, and not going on analysis but on intuition--Cinderella is a good, tough little goat and will get the goat job done. I like her, regardless of whether her conformation is "correct". The gent she's bred to is, in my opinion, a far better choice than Storm Cloud. And he's handsome!


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## Texaslass

Goat_in_Himmel said:


> Looking at your Nigis, and not going on analysis but on intuition--Cinderella is a good, tough little goat and will get the goat job done. I like her, regardless of whether her conformation is "correct". The gent she's bred to is, in my opinion, a far better choice than Storm Cloud. And he's handsome!


Yeah, I agree totally, but I'm very prejudiced, lol! 
In what way do you think the Nigerian buck is better than the alpine, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well, Sarah.... I guess I will judge them for you, lol  the nationals are really fuzzing out on my computer and the kindle wont even show the flipping ring, just the audio plays, so whatever with that! It's ok, I don't like LaMancha's that much anyways, I was just watching it to see my friend, lol

I do agree and disagree with some of your critiques of your does.

*For Danellie,*
*Cons:*
Steep rump
Spine rises slightly as it reaches the hips
Neck could be longer
Neck could blend better into the brisket
Needs more body length
Chest floor needs a tad bit more blending into the rib cage/barrel
Posty rear legs
Minor toe out

*Pros:*
Good body depth
Femininity
Very wide in the escutcheon 
Nice brisket
Good chine
Neck blends well into the withers
Strong pasturns
Nice front end assembly
Nice hip width
Nice pin bone width
Strong shoulders

*For her udder:*

Fore udder needs to be more tightly attached
Teat placement needs to be more centered
Rear udder attachments could be higher and tighter
Side attachments could be tighter and smoother
Udder is a bit lopsided
Medial is a bit too deep, but not that bad
Udder is nice and capacious
Needs more udder depth
Teats are nice and defined from the udder
Teats could be more plumb in size
Udder appears smooth with a nice texture
Does not seem to have any extra teats, or lumps, no sign of udder damage.

*For Jacqueline,*
*Cons*:
Steep rump
Borderline posty in the rear legs (also you set them back too far in the first one, I'm going by her natural stance)
Needs more brisket
Chest floor needs to blend a bit better into the rib cage/barrel
Definately needs more depth
Hips are a bit too wide
Pins are a bit too narrow
Minor toe out
Brisket could blend better into the neck
Needs a longer neck

*Pros:*
Nice body length
Strong pasturns
Neck blends nicely into the withers
She has a bit of a slope (very slight though)
Femininity
Fits breed standard

*For her udder*

Really needs more udder depth
Needs to be more capacious
Rear udder attachments need to be higher and tighter
Teats need to be more centered (and the right teats looks more forward set...)
Medial is good
Fore udder needs to be tighter attached and blended better
Teats are well defined from the udder
Teats could be a bit bigger, more plumb.
Udder texture looks good
Udder looks free from extra teats and injury.

*For Suzi,*
*Cons:*
Needs brisket
Point of shoulder is way too prominent, and sharp
Neck needs better blending into the withers
Needs more strength in the front end assambly
Hips need to be wider
Thurls are a bit too prominent

*Pros:*
Nice body length
Nice body depth
Good chine
Level topline
Has a nice slope
Long bone pattern throughout
Decent rump, best of them all
Nice angulation in the rear legs
Pins are nice
Femininity
Fits breed standard

Can't judge her udder because I can't really see it too well

I will judge ella after she kids, she looks really heavy and that will normally drag her down in spots.

I'd like to see Breck clipped, but he has 
Strong topline
Decent rump
Good legs
Little bit of a slope
Nice depth
Masculinity

Good little buck

*For Cloud,*
*Cons:*
Back arches up a bit
Rump could be a bit more level
Looks a bit weak in the chine
Needs more brisket
Needs a bit more body length
Borderline posty rear legs
Neck needs to blend better into the brisket

*Pros:*
Nice depth
Long bone pattern
Wide in the escutcheon
Nice pin bones
Chest floor blends well
Seemingly straight legs

He'd look better set up, and he might be in a wonky growth spurt right now.


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## Texaslass

Oh, I have so many questions! Too many to ask all at once, argh!  and I can't stay right now- about to watch a family movie. ( the show thing was doing the same thing to me, btw- just audio and such, ugh)I know I need to give Breck a good haircut, but he's hard to catch- also I felt like he would feel disgraced to be shaved, hehe. He is very masculine.


I did want to say that Danielle's legs are a little posts, but wasn't completely sure. Now the pics of Storm are really bad, I know. It was SO bright out there(and HOT) I couldn't see the camera screen at all, so I was just pointing in the general direction and clicking, lol.
I'll try to do better ones.


That's funny that you said Jac. has a wider rump than Dan., because I think, (not %100 sure), but I think Danielle's is actually wider. Can't be certain though, I never measured, lol. 


Oh, and I'm almost certain Jac.'s udder isn't lopsided, I think it's the way she's standing in that pic, it's making her udder get pulled up on one side.


And just tonight I was noticing that Suzi's shoulder IS way too pointy- I was going to add that to my list of ideas. 

Oh, and none of them cooperated in the slightest for the pics, they're like what in the world are you doing you weird human? So, yeah, none of them are set up right, sorry. Just tell me which pics are the worst and ill try to get better ones. This is like the third time I've tried to get good ones for you. 


Gotta go now, people are waiting for me!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I said Danielle's udder was lopsided, Jac's isn't.

Now as far as hip width _not rump, hip_, Jac has wider hips (hip bone to hip bone), it's gonna be different between the three does, but in propotion to her body, Jac's hip bone width is too wide.

The fist pic of Jac, and the first pic of Storm need redone. Also, not a big issue like the other two pics, but the one of Danielle as angled toward her front end, so it doesnt show her rump and rear legs too well.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh, and my professional advise to you,.... your dairy does needs some more body conditioning, they are below average on a body condition score. So just bump up the grain, or make sure they have clean cool water in this heat. Suzi is especially thin between all of them, Breck and Ella look good though!


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## mjs500doo

Can you grab a pic of Jackie? Her rear legs strick me as sickle, not posty. Sickle legs are much harder to breed up than posty legs.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Don't look at the one where she was supposed to be set up, look at the couple pics after that. Like the side shot showing her udder depth.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

This pic


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Oh, and my professional advise to you,.... your dairy does needs some more body conditioning, they are below average on a body condition score. So just bump up the grain, or make sure they have clean cool water in this heat. Suzi is especially thin between all of them, Breck and Ella look good though!


Okay, well they _always_ have clean cool water- we have to scrub out their water troughs pretty much every day, and they get refilled like three times a day.
Grain, yes, I'm in the process of learning how much and what to give them, so no surprise there. As a matter of fact I just gave them more than usual tonight, and will continue to do so. I want to get some beet pulp to add to their ration.
And don't tell me about Suzi- she's the Queen of pickiness! I know she's too thin, but she won't eat enough. She doesn't like alfalfa pellets, whereas the others will kill for them, so she'll only eat about half of what I'd like her to. She doesn't seem to care much for food at all- when she was nursing her kid, she wouldn't eat on the milk stand; shed just stand there and strain to see her baby and call to her. And baby wouldn't help, shed start bawling and then we'd have to put them together and feed her while baby was nursing, but she was usually still too distracted to eat much. 
She also eats really _slowly_, and we can't let her eat with the others, cause she's the lowest in the pecking order, and won't even try to get food while the others are eating. Jacqueline especially hates for Suzi to get anything.
So, yes you're totally right, I'll see what I can do about that.

Oh, and where Danielle's pic was off angle-wise my little sis took the pic (I'm the one holding the goat) so go figure.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh gosh, I have a doe that eats like a dead bird! I found if I separated the grain into little rows in the bucket she would eat more ( like a row of sweet feed, a row of calf manna, a row of boss, etc). Also,I will milk her and if she doesn't eat her grain, I will take her grain, and her to the gate, and when all the other goats are trying to eat her grain, she will suddenly have and appetite.

How much grain are you giving?


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## mjs500doo

It looks like her cannon bones are too long in the hind legs. Makes the thurl weak, giving the appearance of posty in this pic, and sickle in the opposite. I wonder how she gaits?


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Well, Sarah.... I guess I will judge them for you, lol  the nationals are really fuzzing out on my computer and the kindle wont even show the flipping ring, just the audio plays, so whatever with that! It's ok, I don't like LaMancha's that much anyways, I was just watching it to see my friend, lol
> 
> I do agree and disagree with some of your critiques of your does.
> 
> *For Danellie,*
> *Cons:*
> * Does not seem to have any extra teats, or lumps, no sign of udder damage. *Shouldn't, we got them bred and are pretty much the only ones to milk them ever, though you can't see it in the pics, Danielle does have a very small bump I'm trying to resolve; not sire what it is.
> 
> 
> *Jacqueline:*
> 
> *Pros:*
> * She has a bit of a slope (very slight though) *Where should I be looking for this?
> 
> *For her udder*
> Teats need to be more centered *(and the right teats looks more forward set...) *This is what I meant when I said lopsided, sorry, typed it fast.
> Medial is good
> Fore udder needs to be tighter attached and blended better
> Teats are well defined from the udder
> Teats could be a bit bigger, more plumb.
> Udder texture looks good
> Udder looks free from extra teats and injury.
> 
> *For Suzi,*
> *Cons:*
> * Thurls are a bit too prominent *What is a thurl?
> 
> *Pros:*
> Nice body length
> Nice body depth
> Good chine
> Level topline
> Has a nice slope
> * Long bone pattern throughout *Yeah, she's really bony!
> Decent rump, best of them all
> Nice angulation in the rear legs
> * Pins are nice *What is a pin???
> Femininity
> Fits breed standard
> 
> * Can't judge her udder because I can't really see it too well*Yes, I was going to get a better pic(s) there. Again, the sun! Too bright, and her udder isn't really that good IMO. Medial is too defined, I think, and rear attachments aren't great. Also lopsided from having a single kid nurse on her for year(previously to us owning her).
> 
> * I'd like to see Breck clipped, but he has
> Strong topline
> Decent rump
> Good legs
> Little bit of a slope
> Nice depth
> Masculinity
> 
> Good little buck*
> *  Happiness*! He and Ella are the only ones that are actually mine, makes me happy*!
> * .


Okay, that took a while! Tell me what you think!


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## mjs500doo

I feel like you need to look into a proper diagram of terminology to better aware yourself on what we're talking about.


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## mjs500doo

http://www.wdga.org/caring-for-goats/

My phone isn't letting me work with pictures apparently right now. Check out our Wisconsin goat association, they have a nice diagram on goat anatomy.


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Oh gosh, I have a doe that eats like a dead bird!
> How much grain are you giving?


Picky things sometimes!

Well, please don't kill me, but we aren't feeding a whole lot right now because I'm trying to work them into more food gradually. See, somebody on this forum said they only fed their milkers alfalfa, hehe (keep in mind that though we've had goats for 5+ years, I knew nothing before I joined this forum)
So I was trying that out. Obviously DIDN'T work out, so now I being smarter and giving more good stuff. 

Here's the daily ration (right now) for one of our milkers:
-We only milk in the evenings-
Morning: 2lbs alfalfa, 1 lb %16 grain
Evening: 2lbs alfalfa, 1lb%16 grain, roughly 2cups of BOSS
And 1 Tbsp of minerals, 1tsp kelp and 1 tsp of dolomite powder, mixed with honey-water and tossed into their feed.

IM TOTALLY HAPPY TO LEARN!! In fact, please tell me what I'm doing wrong!
I'm new to all this, and it's kind of complicated. I'm trying to do the best I can for them, just takes a while to learn it all.


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## Texaslass

mjs500doo said:


> http://www.wdga.org/caring-for-goats/
> 
> My phone isn't letting me work with pictures apparently right now. Check out our Wisconsin goat association, they have a nice diagram on goat anatomy.


 Well I have a chart, but it's on the computer in my dads room, so I can't look at it right now. Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.I'm not too worried about knowing every detail, I'm probably never going to show; I would just like to be more aware of conformation generally so that I can breed up and not down with my little herd.


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## Texaslass

I looked- other than the thurl and pin bone I was doing okay, I think. 

You're right, though, I should've learned a bit more first. This forum tends to make me lazy b/c it's so easy ( and more interesting)to ask everyone questions rather than actually do research, lol. :laugh: Sorry to be a slob.
And Little bits and Pieces -Lacie?- I think I meant hip bone width, not rump earlier, sorry.


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## mjs500doo

NDlover said:


> I looked- other than the thurl and pin bone I was doing okay, I think.
> 
> You're right, though, I should've learned a bit more first. This forum tends to make me lazy b/c it's so easy ( and more interesting)to ask everyone questions rather than actually do research, lol. :laugh: Sorry to be a slob.
> And Little bits and Pieces -Lacie?- I think I meant hip bone width, not rump earlier, sorry. :embarrassment:


No no not anything bad. Learning is good. I just figured some terminology would help fill the gaps and point your eyes to where we're looking.


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## Texaslass

Yes, it does, thank you.


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## Texaslass

Oh, I totally forgot to say that Alan Breck's sire was GCH junior buck in a NDGA show in Dallas, TX in 2008, Little Bits!


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## Goat_in_Himmel

Oh, sorry, of course Mr. Alpine is for the first does you posted, duh! But anyhow, Mr. Breck has a nice length to his body, and a nice flat rump, and well angled legs compared to Storm Cloud, and though one can't see his topline for sure under that hair, it gives the impression of being fairly straight, which will also benefit Cinderella's kids. Mr. Breck seems to be strong where Cinderella is weaker, so I feel they're a good pair. (And, he's handsome!) Again, I'm basing this on a good feeling about that match, rather than being strictly rational.


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## Texaslass

Thanks, I always feel it's good to go with your gut.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well you're feeding an ok amount of grain. How much protein does your brand of alfalfa pellet have? I would definitely get calf manna or excelerator(made by farmer feeds). You don't need the beet pulp, it just helps. But I would actually pick the Excelerator over the Calf Manna because it has higher protein, but still has all the vitamins and minerals that calf manna has.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh, and did the chart answer your questions you had as to what parts if the body I was talking about? Or do you still need some help with that?

Also, add more boss. Try adding some to both feedings, and I'd do at least 4 cups cups of boss, per feeding.
And when you get calf manna or excelerator I'd do at least 1lb a day, more for Suzi. And you can substitute some alfalfa pellets for the other stuff.


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## Texaslass

The alfalfa is 17%, don't know the brand, but I guess it doesn't matter. I was actually considering feeding more BOSS as well.

So the thurl as I understand it from the charts I've looked at is the part right behind and below the hip bone that looks like a muscle? If so, then I agree that they are a bit too prominent. You should've seen this Nubian we had once -just for a while- hers stuck out so far we thought something was wrong with her! After a while we decided she was just "curvy" , lol.
Still a little fuzzy as to where the slope is that you were talking about. Otherwise got it, and agree as to everything you said. I missed a lot of details of course, but all the pros and con make perfect sense when you out it into perspective like that.


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## Texaslass

It was raining this morning (amazing feat of nature in this place!) so I didn't get pics yet, I'll try to soon.

I'm really excited right now because I finally got my NDGA membership packet today! It's been like a month since I applied, so I'm extra happy.  I also joined AGS asd ADGA but haven't gotten my stuff back yet.

But I also got Storm's registration paper today, yay! I'll let you know the bloodlines as soon as I find them.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yep, you got it, that's the thurl.
Now the slope, what it is, is the withers should be a bit higher than the hips, it gives a down hill slope appearance to the back. That's what judges like to see. It gives the doe an upstanding appearance, and a more impressive and stylish walk. Same goes for bucks.

Try giving equal amounts of alfalfa and grain, see if the sweet feed helps with weight. But manna or excelerator is gold when it comes to putting weight on and keeping them in condition. Boss has a lot of fat and oil in it and more of that would help a lot, works well with manna.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And for storm, I'll look him up. What's his registered name?


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Yep, you got it, that's the thurl.
> Now the slope, what it is, is the withers should be a bit higher than the hips, it gives a down hill slope appearance to the back. That's what judges like to see. It gives the doe an upstanding appearance, and a more impressive and stylish walk. Same goes for bucks.
> 
> Try giving equal amounts of alfalfa and grain, see if the sweet feed helps with weight. But manna or excelerator is gold when it comes to putting weight on and keeping them in condition. Boss has a lot of fat and oil in it and more of that would help a lot, works well with manna.


Well, duh !(to me) of course that's the slope; I thought so originally, but then wasn't sure for some reason. :doh: For some reason I thought you were saying it was a bad thing, and I knew that slope was a good thing, so I just confused myself. :banghead:

And Storm's registered name is Greenwood Ranch Storm Cloud. They let us pick the name. 
But the folks we got him from are 4H ers or something, NOT professional breeders... I was looking at his paper, and it appears that his sire and dam both have the same sire. :question: ream-Fire Armani

Here's a link to their website: http://www.dreamfirefarm.com/id14.html
They are located in Cresson, TX. From what I could tell, they've got some pretty nice looking goats there, and some Redwood hills bloodlines. I seem to remember hearing that name connected with good lines...
Now Storm's direct sire and dam both have "Reata" as the herd name, but I couldn't find it online. I'll look again though.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well..... I was on board until the whole his grandpa is also his other grandpa... Lol, at least it's not "his grandpa's his uncle and his cousin" THAT is when it gets weird.
Well there was no redwood hills on his pedigree *sigh*, lol. But he DOES have Willow Run, Nixon, and Waiilatpu. All good lines, I have those lines.
Now you "somewhere" hearing Redwood Hills is a good bloodline, um YEAH, I have those bloodlines in many of my Alpines, I have/had many of their bucks. I love the mammary and conformation from their herd.
Lol.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh and I love their alpine doe Doo ***, such a cute face!


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## Texaslass

Internet went out on me for a minute there, sorry.Did I say something about his grandpa? Oh, okay about his dam and sire- to avoid making it any more confusing, I'll post a pic of his paper in a minute. I would've done that first, but I was using the kindle, which does not have TGS app, and so on - its hard to load pics from there.


Haha, I'm sure Redwood is great; I've never truly gotten into all that as these were "just" family milk goats and we didn't even register them or anything, so I've only dabbled. I'm getting more interested now that I have my own goats.


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## Texaslass

Here's his paper:








Maybe now you can see what I mean- his dam AND his sire BOTH have the SAME sire, making them half siblings. Isn't that kind of a no no?


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Oh and I love their alpine doe Doo ***, such a cute face!


I agree. 
And I just took a quick look earlier, didn't pay enough attention to the lines.

And I meant to say: I have every intention of increasing their feed as soon as possible, and thank you for helping me out there. :thumbsup:


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## ptgoats45

Crossing half siblings can be good and it can be bad, just depends on the conformation of the two goats and what their faults and good qualities are. It could also be that the buck escaped and accidentally bred his half sister, you never know.

For your picky doe, I would try offering her one thing at a time until you find out what she likes. I have a doe like that. She won't eat sweet feed or oats but will wolf down the alfalfa pellets so that is all she gets. She liked calf manna for about a week then decided it wasn't to her standards either so that is out. lol You can also add vegetable oil to their feed to increase the fat in their diet (if they like it).


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## Texaslass

Jacqueline kept putting her leg back like that, couldn't make her hold it right.. I don't have a helper this time. 









Suzi, side udder pic ( she's not full, but it doesn't get much fuller- she only gives about half a gallon once a day milking.)









Rear udder- yes, it's lopsided









Closer up








Danielle- hopefully better angle

Now I'm off to get storms pic!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yeah, I went to the genetics, and I looked at his pedigree. His father's sire and his mother's sire are the same making them half siblings, that's really too close for my liking. He's 19.3% inbred, I like to keep mine at 6% it less.

But his mom and dad have the same dad, so his grandfather is the same on both sides, that's what I meant.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, correct if I'm wrong, but isn't pic 1 Jacqueline, and the last one Danielle?


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Ok, correct if I'm wrong, but isn't pic 1 Jacqueline, and the last one Danielle?


Um, yes, but I went back and fixed it... Unless it didn't work, but it's showing it on my screen with the names under the pics instead of on top...


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## Texaslass

Is this okay? He's the only one I could get both legs back on... His previous owners worked with him a bit. He will walk on a lead, and I think they taught him to stand like that as well; obviously ours were never trained that way, hehe.


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## Texaslass

Calling Little Bits n Pieces! :laugh:

Just wondered if the new pics I took are good for anything. 

Oh, and my dad's getting calf manna today. 

AND I gave my first CD&T shots woohoo for me!:hammer:

And I might be getting TWO more Nigerian does AND a kid tomorrow!!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Woohoo! Go Sarah!
Yes the new pics are a lot better, sorry I forgot yo get back to you! I'll do the critique in a bit, I'm on my kindle right now.
The calf manna will help a lot.


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Woohoo! Go Sarah!
> Yes the new pics are a lot better, sorry I forgot yo get back to you! I'll do the critique in a bit, I'm on my kindle right now.
> The calf manna will help a lot.


Take your time!
I just got happy and had to tell my goat peeps- as everyone on here knows, nobody else understands why we get so excited about these things.


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## LonelyWillow

......I see my mom hasn't gotten around to looking at those pics yet..... Want me to judge them?....


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## Texaslass

Oohhh, I didn't know you were her daughter! Pardon me for not answering sooner, but I wasn't online. You can if you like, I don't mind; I don't know if she was going to do the whole thing over, or just correct anything that was hard to tell the first time. It really doesn't matter to me, because I'm just having fun and trying to learn here- I'm not going to any shows or anything.


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## Texaslass

Lol, the judges are too busy watching all those beautiful show goats! :laugh:


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## Texaslass

Bump!


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## Texaslass

The pics are still here if anyone cares.


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## Texaslass

Guess no one does.


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## Honeysuckle

Lol. Well if I knew anything about dairy goat conformation.... Haha.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Holy crap! I didn't realize I left you hanging on this for almost 3 weeks! I'm an awful person! 

Well, I'm just going to give you the pros and cons for Cloud, since I already did it for the does.

*Cons:*
Bit of a steep rump
Tad too much rear leg angulation
A little bit weak in the chine 
Could use more brisket
Could use more body length
Flank might be too high
Needs longer bone pattern throughout
(can't judge his legs for to in or out)

*Pros:*
Long neck
Neck blends well into the withers
Nice amount of body depth
Looks to have strong pasturns
Good thurls
Chest floor blends well into the girth
Nice blending into the rear barrel
Looks to have nice openness of ribbing
Long rump
Bit of an uphill stature
Fits the breed standards

I dont think he will do you too much good in the chine, rump, and length department. 
I would like to see how him and Suzi cross.

I think he will add depth and rear leg anulation to your does though, don't think he'll help the chine, and rumps.


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## Texaslass

Umm, ok you beat me to it!! I w going to go to bed, now I gotta study this, lol!!


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Holy crap! I didn't realize I left you hanging on this for almost 3 weeks! I'm an awful person!
> .


No your not! :laugh: I told you it was no big deal! I just couldn't think of anything to ban about, really!
Well, I really like Storm's personality, and it was pretty cool that we managed to find him nearby and for a good price ($175), but I wish I'd known more about conformation then.. Oh well, his daughters will hopefully at least be good producers from the dams sides, and they'll be purebred!! Maybe the next year we can get another buck...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Haha, it's ok! I know you were joking. Took me a bit to find this thread again though 

Well, when your on the hunt for another buck, feel free to send me pictures of them and any questions you have.


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## Texaslass

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Haha, it's ok! I know you were joking. Took me a bit to find this thread again though
> 
> Well, when your on the hunt for another buck, feel free to send me pictures of them and any questions you have.


Haha, I will, don't worry! And now I'm REALLY going to bed! Lol.


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