# Need help when do pygmy doe's first come into heat.



## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

This is why Im asking, the little doe I bought Friday night is suppose to be five months old. Ok the person I got her from when I had already paid for her and was loading her into the truck said that she had to take her out of the pen with two other pygmy goats because they where beating up on her. So she had put her in with a nubian buck. Well right away she went on to say she not pregnant though. I didnt really remeber what she had said till I was on my way home. She stunk like a buck. Do you think that she could have been breed at this young of an age. I hope not but just needed opinions on it. I know I probably should have just said forget it and got my money back but like I said it didnt really register what she said utill I was on my way home.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

she is really young to be having kids,but if in doubt ..you can get .............from the vet a shot that will correct the problem............Call your vet he might be able to tell you..........

If she stinks like a buck,,,he might of been trying,,but if she was not in season..........???

It is a very touchy iffy situation................... :shrug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

My 7 month old pygmy doe had her first heat at 3 months....YES she can already be bred!! A nubian breed buck will have been WAY TOO BIG for her. Watch for signs of heat with BOTH your does, you have a wether with them so he will "tell" you when they are in heat....some does have discharge while others don't.

If she shows no sign of heat I would find a vet ASAP and explain why you need 2cc of Lutalyse and get the shot into her....a nubian impregnating a pygmy/nigi is NEVER a good thing....the kids would be too big for her to deliver. This dose will abort any pregnancy and give her chance to grow as well as not have a bad outcome if she did breed and settle.

Last year my then 4 month old nigi/pygmy cross doe Angel was bred thru the fence by my nigi buck....I had no idea of the Lutalyse and worried and prayed for a good outcome...the kid size wasn't an issue, it was her age and size that was...she delivered a single beautiful and healthy doeling at 9 months old.

A Nubian Buck is alot bigger than a mini doe.....if it were the other way around the only problem would be the doelings age.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Yea thats what I was afraid of. I know they are alot bigger than what I have. Brutus is trying to ride Gracie today so I guess that would mean she is probably coming into her first heat she going on four months. So I should just whatch them for the next month then and see if he shows any interest in Clare and if not then I will see if my vet handles this if not I will have to contact another one. Thanks for the fast replies.


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

Oh yes, she could very possibly be pregnant. Very Possibly. And she is very young to have kids, let alone to a much larger breed buck ! So that could turn out to be a really bad experience for her and you ! I would suggest taking her to the vet and have a sonogram done to see if she is pregnant. It sounds expensive, but that's what I thought and I called my vet and it was only $25 for my vet to do one on my goat. So unless the price varies ALOT from my local vet to your vet, the price shouldn't be To Bad. 

Hope everything works out.


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

If I were you I would call the vet asap! She could die if she is bred by a nubian buck...the kids will be WAY TOO BIG for her. They can get bred as young as 3 months and same for bucks they can breed I think even younger than 3 months. Good luck! ray:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

can you contact the person you bought her from to find out how long she was in with the buck?

That information will help the vet as well as you in determining what is the safe thing to do for your doe

Also welcome to TGS


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## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

You can give her Valbazen wormer and if she is pregnant- she will abort- I wouldn't risk her being bred to that large of a buck!!


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Your pygmy got bred thru the fence????!!!! Talk about desperate . . .


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok this is what the person I got Claire from said, she had never been in heat. She also went on to say that he was way to big to breed her. Ok I never thought that a goat could be to big to breed another goat even if it was smaller. But she says up and down that Claire has never been in heat at all. So I will just keep an eye on her and if she doesnt come in soon then I will call the vet or get some of that dewormer and give it to her. Now how long with that wormer work before its to late. Thanks again for all the information, I feel so stressed out about it.


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

Well as far as seeing the heat ... sometimes you can easily miss a heat. Especially a young doe. Sometimes it seems barely noticeable ! 
I tried and TRIED to watch for my does to come in heat already (before their first breeding) and didn't see some of them. I ended up just keeping the buck in with them for a little while, and they got pregnant. So obviously they DID come in heat, it just wasn't obvious. One of them was obvious ... she had a discharge, but one of them I never knew ... I didn't see anything ! The severity of a heat cycle can vary between individual does. Some can be EXTREMELY noticeable (lots of discharge, swollen vulva, hollering, interest in the bucks, etc. etc.) but then some (especially young does who have never been bred before and don't know what it's all about yet) can possibly be practically impossible to tell for sure.
So there's a good possibility that the lady simply didn't "SEE" the heat. So I would still be worried if I were you. And honestly, I would wait to see if she comes in heat ... they come in heat every 17 - 23 days (avg: 21 days)... so you could be waiting for that long if you just got her. But just think how long that is for the little baby goat to develop. And THEN you'd find out that she truly IS pregnant, and by now you feel even worse about it, because you feel bad about aborting the 20some day old fetus. (It makes me uneasy at any point, but in emergency cases for livestock ... you gotta do what you gotta do, and they're not humans). So why don't you call your vet and just ask how much a sonogram would cost ? It could be really cheap and really worth the time and $$. Then you'd know. Or just give her the wormer that was mentioned.

I honestly would have a really hard time dealing with a situation like this myself, cause I'm such a softy, and also I don't beleive in abortion. Although I realize livestock is a different thing, because it's livestock and not humans. But being as soft as I am, I'd have a hard time knowing what to do because I wouldn't want to abort the fetus, yet I also wouldn't want the mom to die from the overly large fetus. I have dealt with a nice couple before who had a pygmy who was accidentally bred to a boer buck !! They wouldn't abort it, they did everything possible to prepare for the delivery. the kid was born without any problems (can you imagine !!?) and was a healthy kid and the mom was fine to ! I have heard that usually the baby cannot grow larger than what the mother's uterus has room for. Which makes sense, because the mother's stomach can only grow so large. Although ... the uterus still can expand quite large. But I do know that there is still a large possibility that even if the fetus might not grow as large in a pygmy doe as it would in a boer or nubian doe ... it can still grow large ENOUGH in the pygmy doe to cause major problems comming out the birth canal (just like humans or anything). Which could result in an emergency c-section, or death of the mother, or death of the mother AND kid.

So whatever you do, have a plan. Know what's going on. I don't always know if my does are pregnant or not, but it doens't hurt them .. because if they ARE pregnant, it's to another mini. But if I thought one of them was pregnant to a LARGE breed buck ... I would be concerned and would want to know for sure what's going on. So my best peice of advice is to have a sonogram done to know what you're dealing with. that can tell you IF she's pregnant, as well as the size of the fetus, etc.

Good Luck ! Keep us updated


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

IMHO, anyone who would put a young doeling in w/ a buck whether it be a large breed or small breed buck and say oh no no no she's never come into season and oh yeah, she's not bred for sure,,,I just wouldn't hold their word accountable. The previous owner doesn't seem to know much about goats and I would take your doe straight to the vet to have her aborted if indeed she's bred. I've had a 2 1/2 month old doe come in season and have bucklings stand by the fence trying to get to her. 

We had a little shih tzu female and we had her kenneled because she was in season and we didn't want our jack russel to breed her (had an appointment to get him neautered) well come to find out our LAB...yes our big black lab, bred our shih tzu through the chainlink kennel fencing!!! How that happened I have no idea! We didnt' know she was bred until she started getting fat. So we took her to the vet to have her spayed, well the vet said....she's a little far along, so it would be kinda cruel to spay her now, and the 6 puppies look really healthy. So we completely understood and would feel aweful to do that so we'll just let her have them (at this point we thought our russel bred her). Well out came one black puppy,,,wow that's odd! another black puppy,,,now this is getting really odd. Every single puppy was black!!! Ok, our lab must be the sire. So anyway...we lost every puppy unfortunately because they were underdeveloped, and I was a little paturded at the vet since they said they look like the normal size and are all really healthy. 

But anyway,,,sorry for rambling,,but goes to show size usually doesn't matter when it comes to breeding. If the nubian buck was interested enough he could have brought her into heat and easily could have bred her. But anyway...good luck!!


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Ok her is what I have witnesses today, so Im hoping everything will be okay. What do you think. She is puffy and looks like some discharge, and she is wagging her tail. My whether is stopping and sniffing her. Do you think she is just now coming into heat? I hope so but if not I will do whats best for her. I dont want to loose her. Thanks again for all the replies.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey, KW Farms--- the same has almost happened with my shih-zu--- except we don't have a lab we have a rott. cross!! But her kennel is off the ground so Sam just sits beside it and howls as our 3 lb yorkie get's the girl. But when I let her out to run, i literally have to beat him off her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If it was Friday that she was exposed to the buck and this is Monday,,,,I would say (if) she is in season ,but you have to make sure she is in true standing heat.........then you will probably know it will be safe .........The way you are describing it does sound like she may be in.....................
Can you get any pooch pics ?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It does sound like a heat. As mentioned a pic would help, and I hope she is in. ray:


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to say something about how old the doeling is when she can come in heat. I have Nigerian Dwarf goats and have had two kiddings so far. My first doeling came in heat at 3 weeks. She was born last June. This year my doe had triplets, two does and a buck. One doe came in heat at 6 weeks... so you see... they can come in heat very young!


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