# Having a bad season



## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Hi y’all. This might be very long but I am at my breaking point and I don’t have anyone close to me in the goat world. I’m looking for some support, encouragement, advice anything really.
I am only 3 years into my Boer goat endeavor. My herd is still on the small side: 10 does and 1 Jr buckling. This kidding season I only bred my original 3 adult does. My first doe birthed triplets. One was DOA, the other two died the next morning. There is a suspected selenium deficiency in my herd and I believe that was the culprit. My second doe birthed 3 live triplet doelings. I had to pull the first baby because she was breach. All 3 were up walking and eating within minutes. Healthy and happy. But mom appears very weak in the hind legs and tired so I’ve been giving her extra energy hoping that would help. This morning, I came out and discovered she had smothered 2 of the babies during the night. My third and last doe is battling toxemia. I am in the works of getting her induced to save her life. Her 145 day is Monday but I’d like to induce today so I have a chance of being present in case the situation is less than desirable. I have had an awful go at it this year. I can’t stop blaming myself. I feel like I am doing everything wrong for my moms, babies and myself. I have plans to update my feeding, mineral, vitamin/supplement (etc) routines and revamp my entire program health wise. 
I also plan to pull the last doeling from the trips and see if my first doe who lost her babies will take her. She is a wonderful dam. She has been screaming for babies since she lost hers and she heard the other babies born. My weak mom I am about to go take her temp and try to get a ketone reading. She has no interest in her baby. She’ll let her nurse only if she is laying down. I will update on this situation. 
How have you managed during bad seasons? How do you muster the strength to keep going? 
I am a full time college student in my last year, I work a part time night shift and I have my goats. I am absolutely drained, emotionally, mentally and physically. I know I can do better. 

For reference on the smothering: my stall is 6x6.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this:hug: You have come to the best place for help and encouragement! 
First, What kind of mineral are you feeding? What are you feeding them? What kind of hay are you giving them?
@happybleats @toth boer goats @Moers kiko boars @GoofyGoat @SalteyLove @AndersonRanch 
I tagged some people for you, they are super knowledgeable and will be able to help you out!!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Iluvlilly! said:


> I am so sorry that you are dealing with this:hug: You have come to the best place for help and encouragement!
> First, What kind of mineral are you feeding? What are you feeding them? What kind of hay are you giving them?
> @happybleats @toth boer goats @Moers kiko boars @GoofyGoat @SalteyLove @AndersonRanch
> I tagged some people for you, they are super knowledgeable and will be able to help you out!!


Thank you :heart:

I am feeding Purina lose mineral. I definitely want to get away from it but it is the only mineral sold locally. Please suggest your favorites! I will order them online or see if the company who ships my grain to me will order some for me. I'm not impressed with Purina products. I switched my grain from Purina grower to ADM amino gain as 7 out of my 10 does are yearlings and I have enjoyed the growth they've gone through from the switch. I've also been giving it to my adult does. 
I feed grass/alfalfa mix during the winter and I free choice my hay. I used to only feed hay twice a day but I've seen improvements since I've allowed free choice.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Okay so for the mineral I have heard that Sweetlix Meat Maker Goat Mineral is the best. I personally use Purina Wind and Rain but have to supplement now and then. 
I feed the same hay as well and like it too! 
As for your grain, I'm not really smart in that department so I will let somebody else chime in on that!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm sorry things are so rough right now! I know there are members here who will be able to help you troubleshoot your herd health issues. 
There is a thread on here where several people shared the things that have helped keep them going in rough times. I'm going to try to find that and post the link here for you, because I feel it might encourage you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Gosh I'm so sorry your having a difficult time. My first goat year was horrible too. Lots of losses and bad advice. This group is amazing for help that I wish I knew about 16 years ago. 
Definitely need better loose minerals and may need extra supplements of selenium and copper. 
Get the new moms temp..the one who is weak.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Here it is! Hope it encourages you as much as it encouraged me. 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads...to-give-up-raising-goats.213359/#post-2391307


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oops sent that too soon lol

I would also make her a carrot and celery juice...30 cc 3-4 times a day. Fresh raw garlic for immune support and cayenne pepper in a little honey to give energy and support. B complex sub q wouldn't hurt either. 
Check her udder to be sure its healthy and if tight..milk to make he comfy. Bottle feed that colostrum to the babies or freeze it. 
Sometimes it takes a a bit for new mkms..especially first time moms to warm up to the kids...if beed be..feed them for her until mothering kicks in. 

Next season will be better. This season we work on getting moms ready. ((Hugs))


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am so sorry to hear about your bad experience. :hug:
If you can, forget about blaming yourself. You are doing your best, and willing to change things.
You will get lots of advice here. 
Good luck with grafting the baby onto the first mom. It sounds like a good plan.
I wish your third doe all the best with her kidding.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Okay yall. Update: 
I tied Jolene (mom who lost triplets) and got baby to suckle a good amount. Jolene was very uneasy and didn’t know what to think. Her udder was also very full so I’m sure it wasn’t a pleasant experience. I put Jolene back in her pen and she’s crying for babies again. She was very gentle with the doeling but was very unsure. I’m going to continue slow introductions throughout the day.
I haven’t gotten Voodoo’s (triplet mom) temperature yet. I went outside and discovered that Maiden (toxemia mom) is in early labor. Huge string of mucous hanging out. Since she is fighting toxemia, should I go in and check her? I really do not want to go in unless I absolutely have to. No pushing but signs of discomfort. 

Thank you everyone for all of the advice so far. I’m going to start a goat binder and write everything down. I was about to head to the vet to get supplies but I discovered Maiden in labor and I do not want to leave her. She wasn’t induced and this is either day 143/144 depending on the day she settled. I do not expect a good outcome kid wise. My focus is on mom. 

I’ve heard many people say their first few seasons were very hard. It brings me some hope knowing that, despite the heartbreak, I can fix the issues and try again. I’m just very glad that I only had 3 does this year and not all 10. This gives me a year to get the kinks worked out. 

I will continue taking notes on everyone’s suggestions. I’m going to head back outside and check on Maiden


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Update 2: Voodoo has a temperature of 104.1. About to proceed with treatment


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

How is Maiden progressing? I haven't had experience with toxemia, but hopefully someone will be able to chime in with advice. Is there a good vet or goat person you can call? If she is pushing hard with no results, you will need to go in and check things out. Make sure your hands are sanitized and your nails short, or wear gloves. Do you have anything you can lube your hands with to make it easier to get in?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

To graft a kid to mama who lost babies..I ket mom smell babies bum..put baby to nurse then let mom smell baby's bum again. This worked very well for me. 

For mom with temp..Definitely start antibiotic. 

Good luck with toxemia mom in labor!! 

You got this!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Maiden is still not pushing. She came out and is eating hay/grain and is chewing her cud. She’s very bright and alert. 
I wear sleeve gloves, wash my hands throughly and lube up before ever going in and I don’t go in unless absolutely necessary. I fear infection and I believe voodoo is sick because I had to go in and assist her :sad: 
I just tied Jolene again and am getting baby to nurse. I’ll try the nurse, bum, nurse approach! 
Thank you!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What treatment is being done for the ketosis?


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

happybleats said:


> What treatment is being done for the ketosis?


"Magic" drench (molasses, corn syrup and corn oil she eats it right from the syringe), dextrose, nutri-drench, selenium paste (I am going to pick up Bose from my vet), thiamine and I've been exercising her. I gave her probios the day I noticed it but stopped after that as she has been eating plenty of hay and I don't want to disturb her rumen. She calls out for food and I've given her a platter of everything I have on hand for her to choose from plus some evergreen branches. Poop is normal and she pees regularly. The "sweet" smell from her urine has disappeared and she has less of a hard time standing up than she had beforehand. I have propylene glycol but I haven't given her any because I don't want to add stress to her body and she's been eating. Please let me know if I'm lacking or could add anything!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like you have her covered. I wouldnt do both the Magic and Propylene G ..so stick with that is working. 
If you do BoSe..don't give the gel any more. You're doing great


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good advice given.

Keep up the good work.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Sounds like you have her covered. I wouldnt do both the Magic and Propylene G ..so stick with that is working.
> If you do BoSe..don't give the gel any more. You're doing great


That makes me feel better by a mile...I stopped giving the nutridrench and magic together after day 2 of treatment when she began eating again. 
Still no pushing, just a lot of grunting and repositioning. I will continue to update


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Early labor to babies on the ground can take hours. Usually once her udder is tight and teats strudded...its game on.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Early labor to babies on the ground can take hours. Usually once her udder is tight and teats strudded...its game on.


It's true! Her udder is very tight and she's stargazing. It may be another long night for me but I'm okay with it.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

If she is in labor and had ketosis signs. It is best to lube up. Just use 2 fingers to.see if her cervix is dialating or not. Thats important. Just check it a couple of times. If it is not dialating. Gently with 1 finger, with a contraction, gently rub the cervix to help it open. 
If you have a calcium drench that will help her dialate. 
Lets work on getting the kidds born and then we can discuss feedings & stuff. 
We All have good years & heart break years. We dont judge..we work together and improve any way we can. Ok? Hang in there. You are doing great!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@HossBoerGoats :bighug: :goodjob:


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> If she is in labor and had ketosis signs. It is best to lube up. Just use 2 fingers to.see if her cervix is dialating or not. Thats important. Just check it a couple of times. If it is not dialating. Gently with 1 finger, with a contraction, gently rub the cervix to help it open.
> If you have a calcium drench that will help her dialate.
> Lets work on getting the kidds born and then we can discuss feedings & stuff.
> We All have good years & heart break years. We dont judge..we work together and improve any way we can. Ok? Hang in there. You are doing great!


Okay...I will go check her and get back to y'all. 
Thank you so much for the encouragement and help :heart:


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Just read everything, Im so Sorry you’ve had such a rough time of it. It sounds like you’ve done everything you can. 
Prelabor can take up to 12 hours the first few there’s a lot of getting ready on the part of the doe, stretching, nesting etc. I find keeping a cinder block out or something 10-12 inches high in the kidding stall lets the doe really get the kids into position.
Ketosis is a nasty thing to deal with, the PG is a double edged sword, it helps but it also burns the does throat so she won’t want to eat.
If she’s in true labor, then checking for dialation is wise, but if she’s in prelabor you don’t want to introduce bacteria into the birth canal. 
It sounds like you’ve got things covered, we are here for you and I hope your doe has a easy kidding and everything goes to plan.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm sorry you're having a rough year. I don't have anything to add except "good luck!" I hope the birthing goes well this time.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Before I go in to check her dilation, what are everyone’s opinions? I’d like to avoid going in as much as possible. She has been leaking fluid all day but no pushing. She has been up and walking/eating. Her bag is firm but her teats haven’t filled yet. I don’t want to run the risk of infection but I will check her if I have to do so.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I’d watch her closely for awhile, Personally I won’t go in until I’m positive there’s active labor going on.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I wouldn't check if you haven't witnessed pushing and she is behaving normal. But you are there and seeing her in person so you go based on your instinct! A two finger check with lubricant won't hurt a thing. 

Purina loose mineral is much improved in recent years! You can keep using it. But you absolutely have to use additional supplements. No matter which loose mineral you choose. Don't go on a wild goose chase for a new mineral, just order a bottle of Bo-Se or MultiMin90 on line and send the script to your vet right from the website. 

I'm so sorry for your experience, I experienced a selenium deficient kidding season probably 3-4 years into my goat raising adventures. I would not wish that on anybody. Things will look brighter in a few weeks, keep your chin up. You can turn everything around!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> I wouldn't check if you haven't witnessed pushing and she is behaving normal. But you are there and seeing her in person so you go based on your instinct! A two finger check with lubricant won't hurt a thing.
> 
> Purina loose mineral is much improved in recent years! You can keep using it. But you absolutely have to use additional supplements. No matter which loose mineral you choose. Don't go on a wild goose chase for a new mineral, just order a bottle of Bo-Se or MultiMin90 on line and send the script to your vet right from the website.
> 
> I'm so sorry for your experience, I experienced a selenium deficient kidding season probably 3-4 years into my goat raising adventures. I would not wish that on anybody. Things will look brighter in a few weeks, keep your chin up. You can turn everything around!


Okay, I just came out to check on her again. I will let y'all know what the situation is.

I've been thinking about the Purina minerals. I'll probably continue them in my program as they're so readily available to me but it won't hurt to add more options alongside it. As we all know; every goat is different and has a different taste or need.

I was planning on going to my vet's office today to get supplies but my goats had a different plan for me. If I don't go tomorrow, I will order online and send the prescription.

I'm sorry you had to experience it as well. Thank you for the encouragement :heart: it really means a lot to me.

I created a little "box" for baby girl in my feed room, right next to mom. I don't want to run the risk of her getting smothered and because mom is fighting her own battle, I am having to care for baby anyways. She nursed off my other doe, Jolene, 3 times today. Jolene is still very unsure. She is cleaning out and I think the nursing has been causing pains. But she is very curious about baby. I will continue to attempt a graphing throughout the night/tomorrow. I will bottle feed baby if it comes to it. I've already introduced it to her with some milk from Jolene. Here is a picture of her. I think I'm going to name her "Virgie" after one of my favorite songs.

I will continue to update.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Aww, she’s adorable. Great name for a lovely little gal 

I put wind rain and storm out with the new formula purina goat minerals because both are strong in different things. I occasionally also put out sheep minerals because they’re strong in areas goat minerals aren’t. Sweet lix is great but I can’t get it locally anymore so I supplement as needed but this mix has helped me a lot getting things more balanced. I hope that might help you.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Here is mama Maiden. I think things are getting closer to the "serious" side. She's started grinding her teeth, stargazing and hitting her head on the wall. No pushing and her tail is down. Teats still not full. As I was typing she stood, peed/pooped then moved to the back of the stall. I think I will refrain from checking at this moment. Last year she kidded around 1am. My other two does kidded around the same time this year as they did the year before. I wouldn't be surprised if Maiden decides to do the same.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Aww, she's adorable. Great name for a lovely little gal
> 
> I put wind rain and storm out with the new formula purina goat minerals because both are strong in different things. I occasionally also put out sheep minerals because they're strong in areas goat minerals aren't. Sweet lix is great but I can't get it locally anymore so I supplement as needed but this mix has helped me a lot getting things more balanced. I hope that might help you.


I am definitely going to look into sweet lix and wind rain and storm. I'm sure my feed supplier would be happy to order it for me. I can also get sheep minerals locally so I will look into that as well!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Just a question, do you use replamin gel? It might be a huge help. You give a loader dose of 5cc's a day for 5 days, then once a week for awhile then once your girls look good, once a month.
Here it is:
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus

Also are you on a well with hard water? Water can affect your goats ability to absorb minerals.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Just a question, do you use replamin gel? It might be a huge help. You give a loader dose of 5cc's a day for a week then once a week for awhile then once your girls look good, once a month.
> Here it is:
> https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus
> 
> Also are you on a well with hard water? Water can affect your goats ability to absorb minerals.


I do not but I will now! I will order this tomorrow. I'm going to sit down on the computer and get everything ordered.

I am! That is why suspect a mineral deficiency in the newborns.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

HossBoerGoats said:


> I do not but I will now! I will order this tomorrow. I'm going to sit down on the computer and get everything ordered.
> 
> I am! That is why suspect a mineral deficiency in the newborns.


If you have a Home Depot near you they do water testing for free. They have little kits you mail in. The caveat is that they'll be sending you junk mail till you're 100... but you can unsubscribe to the junk emails. To me free is free and a regular water testing is about $40 ...

If Jeffers is out of Replamin try valley vet it's kidding season so it can be hard to find. It really works well though.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice by all.

Adorable kid.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm on well water, and it is very, very hard. So hard that stuff gets ruined from the calcium buildup. My goats currently get Purina Wind, Rain and Storm (though I'm thinking I might switch or add another mineral), and everyone needs at least some level of extra mineral supplementation. My buck needs extra zinc. Everyone else needs copper and selenium at least once or twice a year. One doe needs a lot more copper. The other needs extra selenium when she's pregnant. I am getting better at noticing the signs of deficiency in my goats and treating them before it gets bad. The resources available on here have really, really helped me with that. Eventually, I hope to breed for goats who will need less mineral supplement, and work on a dietary plan that include more natural mineral sources. But that's all long term. 
I'm sure you'll figure out what you need for your goats to thrive!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I will definitely look into the water test kit! I know our water is hard. It destroys our appliances. We had to replace our water heater. We regularly had to clean the old one out because the bottom of the tank would fill with mineral/calcium deposits several inches deep. 

My goal when breeding and retaining is to choose what appears to be a “hardy” and well built goat. I know once I can get my kinks worked out I’ll be able to start identifying those animals that fit the bill. 
Thank you for the information and suggestions and encouragment, Caileigh. 

A little update: Maiden is still about the same progress wise and I brought baby Virgie into the house so I can monitor/feed her. She took a bottle almost immediately. I will update on progress as it appears.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Good girl Virgie! Takin the baba is good 
We’re on a well with calcium and heavy Iron loads so I understand...it’s a juggling act to be sure. I either have white crusty lines or red ones on the bottom of my shower curtain. You might want to look RV water filters for your hose It pulls out a lot of 5he heavy minerals when you water. You can find them 8n a Walmart automotive area.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Good girl Virgie! Takin the baba is good
> We're on a well with calcium and heavy Iron loads so I understand...it's a juggling act to be sure. I either have white crusty lines or red ones on the bottom of my shower curtain. You might want to look RV water filters for your hose It pulls out a lot of 5he heavy minerals when you water. You can find them 8n a Walmart automotive area.


She's a good little doeling.

I'll look into that! That's a good idea.

Here's Virgie and my dog, June. June is very confused as to why there's a goat in her kennel. I have my barn monitor on. I went out to check Maiden and I think she prefers some privacy right now. So I'll keep my ears on her and check her again soon. I think she's getting close.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

So far, this year has been brutal for goats in my area. People are losing does, kids and bucks due to breeding/kidding complications they have never had before and normally very fertile does are either not cycling, over cycling (as in cystic) or not settling. Don't know why, unless it has something to do with our drought last year causing a deficiency or surplus of certain minerals that are causing problems. I just don't know.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

How is everything now? Hope everything went well throughout the night!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Just checking in...I hope things are ok.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

It was a long night but still no pushing. I just gloved up and went in. I can get my entire hand in there. She started straining and pushing against me so I didn’t go farther after that. I don’t want her to waste her energy. Her tail is still down and she’s chewing her cud. I will continue to monitor


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

lottsagoats1 said:


> So far, this year has been brutal for goats in my area. People are losing does, kids and bucks due to breeding/kidding complications they have never had before and normally very fertile does are either not cycling, over cycling (as in cystic) or not settling. Don't know why, unless it has something to do with our drought last year causing a deficiency or surplus of certain minerals that are causing problems. I just don't know.


I'm on the Colorado/Wyoming border. The weather has been insane this year. From nice and warm in the 50's to snowstorms the next day. Plus we had wildfires for several months last year. I'm not blaming the weather for all of my problems but I wouldn't be surprised if that's put extra stress on my goats and others as well :sad:


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Do you have some calcium you can give Maiden? It can help get her on track. Or maybe some red raspberry leaves? They help with uterine issues and toning. I’m a bit concerned if she’s fully dilated and not pushing.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

HossBoerGoats said:


> It was a long night but still no pushing. I just gloved up and went in. I can get my entire hand in there. She started straining and pushing against me so I didn't go farther after that. I don't want her to waste her energy. Her tail is still down and she's chewing her cud. I will continue to monitor


Once you got your hand in there, what did you feel? If you came up against a solid wall then it means the cervix is closed (but usually if the cervix is closed you can't get your whole hand in). If the passage was open at the end but just blocked by a kid then they are ready to come and your doe has no push. If you felt a partially open "ring" at the end but couldn't get your hand through then your doe is starting dilate but is not yet ready to deliver. If she's calcium deficient or has pregnancy toxemia she could be ready to deliver but unable to push.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Damfino said:


> Once you got your hand in there, what did you feel? If you came up against a solid wall then it means the cervix is closed (but usually if the cervix is closed you can't get your whole hand in). If the passage was open at the end but just blocked by a kid then they are ready to come and your doe has no push. If you felt a partially open "ring" at the end but couldn't get your hand through then your doe is starting dilate but is not yet ready to deliver. If she's calcium deficient or has pregnancy toxemia she could be ready to deliver but unable to push.


Thanks @Damfino I was about to call you and @goathiker to give recommendations


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I didn’t go far enough to reach the cervix. When I stopped, it was still an open hallway. I have nutridrench but no calcium drench. Should I give her some nutridrench? I’m going to wash my hands and I’ll go check her again, this time to the cervix. She got up and walked to the end of her stall to watch me head to the house.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree..getting some calcium in her is good idea. The carrots and celery juice I recommend earlier is good calcium source but she may need something stronger like CMPK.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

@HossBoerGoats do you have a vet on standby? One you can call and let know what's going on? I'm concerned because the ketosis could be causing problems. She's been in prelabor for 12+ hours and if she's not delivering soon it could be a problem.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Good luck! :hug:


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

HossBoerGoats said:


> I didn't go far enough to reach the cervix. When I stopped, it was still an open hallway. I have nutridrench but no calcium drench. Should I give her some nutridrench? I'm going to wash my hands and I'll go check her again, this time to the cervix. She got up and walked to the end of her stall to watch me head to the house.


Nutridrench wouldn't hurt, I'd add in the carrot and celery drench as well.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I’m heading back out with the nutridrench and to check to the cervix again. Because she was pushing on my hand, I’m hoping she does have push in her. I’ll update what I find...


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Well I went in. Got to a little above my wrist and felt a blockage. Wrapped my hand around it and realized I had a breach. Mom started pushing really hard so I grabbed on and helped baby into the world. She delivered baby 2 immediately after without assistance. Another breach. Two bucklings. Ugh. I was really hoping for a doeling as this is my favorite doe and the only one I don't have a doeling from. She's my buck doe. I think she is done but I might go in and check to be sure. She's cleaning them and taking very loudly


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yay! Congratulations! Phew I’m so glad things worked out well. Sorry you didn’t get a doeling but at least mom and babies are doing well.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yay! Congratulations!! I'm so glad you dove in there and gave her the help she needed. I hope she and the little ones thrive. After a worrisome pregnancy and/or difficult birth I can never complain about the sexes of the kids. Just seeing everyone alive and healthy is enough!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Yay! Congratulations! Phew I'm so glad things worked out well. Sorry you didn't get a doeling but at least mom and babies are doing well.


I am not complaining too much. I am so so happy that Maiden is okay and that I have two live babies. That is the best outcome no matter what. :heart: thank you all so much


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I can’t wait to see pictures of your new little guys. It still wouldn’t hurt to give her some red raspberry leaves to help her uterus. Has she dropped her placenta?


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

What a relief! I have checked this thread non stop this morning, so glad mom and kids are well! Congratulations on helping the first baby into this world!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> I can't wait to see pictures of your new little guys. It still wouldn't hurt to give her some red raspberry leaves to help her uterus. Has she dropped her placenta?


Placenta is on the way! She is very fixated on cleaning. She's even licking me.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Good momma Maiden 
Looks like you’ve been officially adopted as one of her kids. Lol


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Congratulations!! Good Job! You did so good(thumbup)(woot):hughighfive)


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Congratulations! The kids look pretty big for being early!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Update: I lied about her being done. My Maiden was carrying quads. I have no idea where she was hiding them. The afterbirth is on the way. I had to help deliver all babies because of weak contractions but she is cleaning and has colostrum. 2 boys 2 girls. The girls are huge


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Update: I lied about her being done. My Maiden was carrying quads. I have no idea where she was hiding them. The afterbirth is on the way. I had to help deliver all babies because of weak contractions but she is cleaning and has colostrum. 2 boys 2 girls. The girls are huge
View attachment 196343


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Wow. Congratulations. 2 boys and 2 girls. See she was waiting with the best 2 packages.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How cute, congrats.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yahoooo..good job helping her deliver!!! And good Job Maiden!! Congratulations


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Now that is what I would call an unexpected surprise! Congratulations Maiden and HossBoerGoats on the arrival of a whole litter of goats. 
:wow:


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Please watch Maiden closely. She will need molasses water & add Nutri drench in it. She needs the energy. If you have red cell or b complex in a tube..give her some. Make sure her temp stays normal for the next 3 or 4 days. 
Congats on the quads. Theres the doelings you wanted! Be sure and dip the umvilical cords & hooves in iodine. Good luck..


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

When things wind down and after some rest, add these to the kidding tally please.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with continues energy sources until she is strong


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Okay y’all. First baby boy didn’t make it (white with black spots) the other boy is extremely weak so I pulled him and brought him in. He took some colostrum and is holding his head up. Baby girls are with mom and are standing. I got them to nurse. I’m put grain in with maiden and she is eating it. I’m going to take her out some molasses water with the nutridrench and her thiamine. She is able to stand with ease and is very alert and attentive to her girls. I also dipped everyone in iodine and they got their thiamine and selinium/vitamin e. I will continue to update. I’m very tired and so is maiden but I’m thankful for the outcome I have had. Thank you everyone so much. I’m so glad I started this thread. I’d be a hot mess without y’all :heart:


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

The doelings


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Congratulations, what a surprise! And you got your doeling! Will be praying for your girl for continued health!


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Please watch Maiden closely. She will need molasses water & add Nutri drench in it. She needs the energy. If you have red cell or b complex in a tube..give her some. Make sure her temp stays normal for the next 3 or 4 days.
> Congats on the quads. Theres the doelings you wanted! Be sure and dip the umvilical cords & hooves in iodine. Good luck..


I've never heard of dipping hooves in iodine...can you explain why?


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Jubillee said:


> Congratulations, what a surprise! And you got your doeling! Will be praying for your girl for continued health!


Thank you so much :heart:


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Also; please make me a shopping list for when I’m in town.
So far I have:
Bedding
Calcium Drench
Antibiotics


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Wow, I run to the feed store and chaos breaks out. I’m so sorry you lost one of the bucklings . I hope the other gets Better quickly. Congratulations on the two does that’s fantastic you got your girls after all.
I’d watch the three closely and give them 0.5 cc of vitamin b complex orally a vitamin e capsule squirted in their mouths and a pea sized dollop of selenium vitamin e gel as well.
I’d also start Maiden on penicillin and banamine after she drops her second placenta since you had to assist.
Great job though! I’ll bet you’re beat, get some well earned rest and when you can more pictures please.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Congratulations! What a story. And, yes, many have similar stories for their first years. We did with sheep and when it was all over I didn't even care about all the DOA and miscarriages, I just wanted it in the past. Take care of yourself too- I'd be taking lots of B, D and C myself! ;-)

We buy sheep and goat mineral from Premier 1. I LOVE IT. We buy the premix and add the D&E mix when the animals are not on pasture (winter). 

BoSe and molasses water would be the first things I'd turn to for your dams and kids, but it sounds like you are past that (I didn't read everything).


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

littleheathens said:


> I've never heard of dipping hooves in iodine...can you explain why?


Hooves are very soft when kids are delivered it cleans them as well as helps dry them hard so they're not a pathway for bacteria.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)




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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Great picture


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Thanks Gg..thats the answer for the hooves. The buckling will need some nutridrench also. He needs a temp taken too. Make sure he is warm. Ok?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Thanks Gg..thats the answer for the hooves. The buckling will need some nutridrench also. He needs a temp taken too. Make sure he is warm. Ok?


Not to worry  
Good point on the temp.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

A huge congrats on the deliveries! So sorry one boy didn’t make it.
I am so glad you made this thread and got all this help.
I hope you get the rest you need now too!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Okay y'all. Last update for the night. 
Pic 1: Maiden's boy who pulled that was near death's door sitting up, talking and looking around after a bottle of colostrum. My ma and step dad took him while I was tending to Maiden so they will get to name him. 
Pic 2: baby Virgie eating like a champ.
Pics 3 & 4: Maiden's doelings.
Maiden hasn't completely expelled her afterbirth as of yet so I am a little worried there. I will be calling the vet (hopefully he answers this time) if she hasn't passed it by 5am when I wake up. I have given Maiden grain, molasses/nutridrench water, CMPK drench and penicillin. She has been up eating and feeding her doelings. I have my barn monitor on so I'll be listening throughout the night. I will check her when I'm up bottle feeding.

I haven't eaten a meal in 2 days or slept in a week so I am going to try and get back on track of taking care of myself. 
Thank you everyone. This year was really rough. Out of 10 kids born, I have 4 alive but I will take that 4 without any complaint. I have learned a lot of hard lessons. I've cried a lot and done nothing but worry. We're not out of the woods yet but I feel like I can take a breath.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks for the good news! You have done fantastic!
I pray for afterbirth being expelled by morning. Strength to you and all the goats!
:bighug:


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Update: I wish I had good news. 
Maiden still hasn’t passed her placenta and I can’t get ahold of a vet so I am doing everything I can to contact someone.
I came home and Maiden’s red doeling had passed. I am not sure why she had a full stomach and was up and going this morning. I’m going to give the other doeling a bottle because she’s acting starved. Maiden is very weak and I’m worried. Any suggestions?


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Update: I wish I had good news. 
Voodoo died this morning (mother of Virgie/smothered her other two kids in accident). 
Maiden still hasn’t passed her placenta and I can’t get ahold of a vet so I am doing everything I can to contact someone.
I came home and Maiden’s red doeling had passed. I am not sure why she had a full stomach and was up and going this morning. I’m going to give the other doeling a bottle because she’s acting starved. Maiden is very weak and I’m worried. Any suggestions?


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I got ahold of a vet but she didn’t really help....she said she might have a retained kid. I checked Maiden yesterday after baby 4 and when I noticed the placenta wasn’t passing. I didn’t feel anything but maybe I missed something. She said the best thing to do is put Maiden on antibiotics and let the placenta come out on its own.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

I know for humans, uterine massage (firm, external) can be used to encourage the contractions to pass placenta. It hurts but it works. Have you given her BoSe? Ca? Do you have a different vet you can call? I'm sure others will give you better advice than I can. Are Maiden's kids nursing?

I'm sorry. I hope your other doeling makes it and I wish I could help you in person!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I’m going to go out and check on Maiden. I don’t think she’s been nursing her kids since this morning at the least. She doesn’t even want to stand. I’ve called several vets but no one will prescribe me anything and I still can’t get ahold of my main vet. 
I am having a very hard time emotionally. I feel really beaten down right now.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

HossBoerGoats said:


> Update: I wish I had good news.
> Voodoo died this morning (mother of Virgie/smothered her other two kids in accident).
> Maiden still hasn't passed her placenta and I can't get ahold of a vet so I am doing everything I can to contact someone.
> I came home and Maiden's red doeling had passed. I am not sure why she had a full stomach and was up and going this morning. I'm going to give the other doeling a bottle because she's acting starved. Maiden is very weak and I'm worried. Any suggestions?


Since you have lost so many kids this year i would take one or two for necropsy. Did you give your does selenium? Keep giving lots of calcium and call more vets. The placenta needs come out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh Im so sorry the heart ache still continues!! I agree a necropsy would be ideal. 
You can try a uterine flush for Maiden, 50/50 warm vinegar and water, use a large syringe, no needle or sterile squeeze type bottle to deliver the flush. you can add a few drops Tea tree and or Lavender ess. oil to boost effectiveness.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Since you have lost so many kids this year i would take one or two for necropsy. Did you give your does selenium? Keep giving lots of calcium and call more vets. The placenta needs come out.


I might do that and pay for it with my tax return. 
I've been giving her selenium paste. I'll go give her more CMPK. I've been trying to get BoSe from my vet for the last 4 days but he hasn't answered any of my calls and the vet I talked to, I asked if there was anything I could give Maiden and she just said "Nope".


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm so sorry about your further losses! This is just heartbreaking. Like others here I suspect you're battling mineral deficiencies. 

As far as the retained placenta... I don't think there's another kid. Usually if the placenta is hanging it means all the kids are out (there are exceptions, but not so common). Selenium and/or calcium deficiency is probably at the back of all this. Right now she sounds like a doe with milk fever (calcium deficiency). 

Oxytocin can help her expel the retained placenta. It stimulates contractions. But if your doe is calcium deficient she'll also need the vet to come administer calcium injections or she could continue to go downhill. In milk fever they have a hard time standing and eventually become comatose (I had this happen to one of my does two years ago). If not treated with calcium injections they will die. 

I hope you can find a vet who is helpful and can get to the bottom of this! I also hope there are no more losses. You've had more than your share!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Oh no! I’m so so sorry this is happening. 
Give Maiden a CMPK drench but can you also give her a drench of magic it’s one part molasses, one part corn oil and two parts Karo syrup. It sounds like she needs some energy boost in her blood sugar along with the calcium boost. 
How often are you feeding the babies? They need to eat every 3-4 hours for the first week then every six hours the second through sixth week and every 8 Till weaned. (At least that’s how I do it) 
Maiden isn’t probably producing much since she’s had so much trouble you might want to Pull all the kids and put the kids on whole cows milk warmed to 101* with a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day. I’d also give a Small pea sized dollop of selenium vitamin e gel for two days to each kid along with an extra e capsule. 
This will allow Maiden to put energy into healing and getting better. Watch her udder and milk as necessary so she doesn’t get mastitis though. What’s her temp? She’s probably still really sore so if her temp is normal 101.5-103.5 I’d give another dose of banamine too.
I’m So incredibly frustrated for you with the vets being so unhelpful! Is there a veterinarian college in your state you can call? Or better yet call the extension office near you. I’ll bet they know a good vet locally because of FFA and 4-H is an extension of them or Maybe they know a 4-h leader near you who could help.
Hang in there!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I am so sorry to read about all the losses! If you think Maiden is not nursing the kids, I would recommend milking her some if she looks like she has a full udder. If she has any milk in there, you don't want her getting mastitis on top of everything else. Also, getting milked or nursed can help stimulate them to have contractions. Is she eating and drinking okay?


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Sometimes, vets who are not particularly helpful will be able to prescribe things that you specifically ask for. If you could ask for oxytocin of calcium injections, for example, they might be willing to give it to you, even if they aren't willing to see your doe. I don't know if you need a prescription for oxytocin @Damfino ? I'm thinking you do need it here in MO.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Sometimes, vets who are not particularly helpful will be able to prescribe things that you specifically ask for. If you could ask for oxytocin of calcium injections, for example, they might be willing to give it to you, even if they aren't willing to see your doe. I don't know if you need a prescription for oxytocin @Damfino ? I'm thinking you do need it here in MO.


Oxytocin's an RX unfortunately. Red raspberry leaves could help some but I think she needs a vets help.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, oxytocin is prescription. (seems most things are, now).


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Oxytocin's an RX unfortunately. Red raspberry leaves could help some but I think she needs a vets help.


I agree. Seeing a vet is the best case scenario here. I was just wondering if a vet would be willing to fill out a prescription even if they aren't willing to see the goat. It's a long shot, but maybe worth a try.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Okay y’all I got some banamine from my neighbor who I bought my buckling from. Should I give Maiden the banamine and penicillin? Her fever is 104.4. I’m just trying to do what I can and hope my vet gets back to me. I will give her her routine of CMPK, selenium & e gel, thiamine, magic and nutridrench


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yes, she’s got a bit of a fever banamine is 1cc per 100lbs. Penicillin is 1 cc per 20lbs both are sub Q. 
How much Selenium have you given her? It’s not an every day thing you don’t want to get her toxic. The rest is ok though.
Try calling the county extension office they’ll know of a vet or a 4h leader who could help most likely


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes bananine will help with temp as well as any pain.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Maiden got up and walked to the front of her stall and cried for her babies then ate some grain. Breaks my heart. I didn’t giver her any selenium the last time I gave her some was after the birth. I called into work tonight. My heart is so heavy. I feel ashamed, embarrassed and like I’ve failed my goats. My neighbor said she had a bad year a few years into her goats. I’m trying to remind myself to learn from this and not let it break me.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand all to well the feelings you are having. But let me tell you from experience that this will pass and the lessons learned will carry you on through many years. 
It's good to hear Maiden got up and ate. Regardless of your feeling like you failed..Maiden is in good hands. Your hands that love and care her. All any of us can do is our best at the time. We are all here standing behind you!


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## Lindsay1983 (Jan 28, 2021)

I’m so sorry for all your hardships this season. Hugs for you ❤


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You’ve tried so hard, don’t beat yourself up. Goats have such a steep learning curve, more than any other animal I’ve ever had. My vet was honest with me and he told me to expect losses and no matter how hard we try to prevent it, it will happen.
You reached out for help instead of burying your head, we are all here cheering you on and hurting with you because we’ve all felt like this.
I’m so glad Maidens perked up a bit. Can you let her visit with her kids and see they’re ok. Present them to her butt first so she can sniff them
It might help her.
Hang in there


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Our whole household is rooting for you and your goats!
Big hugs!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Thank you everyone :heart: y’all are amazing and have been a blessing. I am down to two kids. Virgie and Maiden’s last doeling. Maiden’s bottle buckling, who was named “Shotgun” passed away about an hour ago. I will continue to update on her. Both babies love their bottles. I’m going to try and catch up on school work and sleep so I can face all of this with a clear mind. There will be more chances in the future and I won’t give up.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm sorry Shotgun didn't make it. Stay strong


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I’m so sorry about shotgun  
How much and how often are you feeding the kids? 
Are you giving them Maidens milk or cows milk? 
The rule of thumb for bottle babies is is 10-12% of their body, weight for example if the kid weighs 10lbs you’d multiply it times 16ounces for 160, then you’d divide it by 10% for 16.0, then divide it by the number of feedings per day.. ( let’s say 4) which would 4 ounces.. four times a day or every six hours. Over feeding can be as bad as under feeding. 
I f you were already doing this sorry, but not everyone knows so I thought I’d mention it. 
Are you checking babies temp before feeding? It should never be below 100* and the milk needs to be between 100-102* putting a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day.

Hang in there!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> I'm so sorry about shotgun
> How much and how often are you feeding the kids?
> Are you giving them Maidens milk or cows milk?
> The rule of thumb for bottle babies is is 10-12% of their body weight for example if the kid weighs 10lbs you'd multiply it times 16ounces for 160 then you'd divide it by 10% for 16.0 then divide it by the of feedings per day.. ( let's say 4) which would 4 ounces.. four times a day or every six hours. Over feeding can be as bad as under feeding.
> ...


I'm feeding 7-8 ounces 4 times a day. I've been using cow milk. But I'm going to start cutting back the ounces after seeing this. Thank you for that information! The babies temps have been normal and they've been running around the house. Peeing and poopin all over.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Oh they’re so pretty! 
Figuring out how much to feed them is based on their weight, that’s why it’s so important to weigh them often so you can adjust accordingly. Also, it gives you peace of mind that they’re growing strong and healthy.
Just remember baby goats don’t have a turn off switch to tell them when they’ve had enough, they’ll literally eat till they die. They’ll holler and beg but you have to be mom and take the teat away like a doe does when she walks away in the middle of the kids nursing. It’s her saying you’ve had enough..go play.
Hope that helps a bit.
They’re really adorable.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

How are you, Maiden and the kids this morning?
Did Maiden finally drop her placenta? If she did I think I missed it. Have you tried getting ahold of the county extension office for a new vet or a 4-H leader who might know of one?


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Thinking of you, sending strength. :hug:


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I keep visiting this thread hoping it will turn around for you soon. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. Please don't give up! Your success will be that much sweeter when you finally succeed. Stay strong!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Finally got a prescription for oxytocin. On my way to get it once I leave school.

@MellonFriend thank you so very much :heart: you are very right. I will not give up. This has really tested me and my strength but I know I can overcome everything that has happened.

I will continue to update. Maiden is still very alert and able to stand. She's fighting and I won't give up on her


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I've been following along and just wanted to say I pray things will turn around for you. Hoping for the best for you and your goaties!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> I've been following along and just wanted to say I pray things will turn around for you. Hoping for the best for you and your goaties!


Thank you so so very much :heart: it means a lot to me


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Came home and Maiden was out of her stall eating hay. She ran from me when she saw the syringe come out. She’s calling for babies. She got her oxytocin and is eating grain right now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You know they are feeling some better when they run from you!!. Let her visit the kids...it can help her heal as she is less stress. 
You could keep them with her if they are safe and just bring bottles out to them to make sure they are fed. 

Best wishes


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

That’s fantastic! Yay Maiden  oh I’m so glad things sound better.


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## Julia Beatriz ❤️ (Feb 1, 2021)

HossBoerGoats said:


> Hi y'all. This might be very long but I am at my breaking point and I don't have anyone close to me in the goat world. I'm looking for some support, encouragement, advice anything really.
> I am only 3 years into my Boer goat endeavor. My herd is still on the small side: 10 does and 1 Jr buckling. This kidding season I only bred my original 3 adult does. My first doe birthed triplets. One was DOA, the other two died the next morning. There is a suspected selenium deficiency in my herd and I believe that was the culprit. My second doe birthed 3 live triplet doelings. I had to pull the first baby because she was breach. All 3 were up walking and eating within minutes. Healthy and happy. But mom appears very weak in the hind legs and tired so I've been giving her extra energy hoping that would help. This morning, I came out and discovered she had smothered 2 of the babies during the night. My third and last doe is battling toxemia. I am in the works of getting her induced to save her life. Her 145 day is Monday but I'd like to induce today so I have a chance of being present in case the situation is less than desirable. I have had an awful go at it this year. I can't stop blaming myself. I feel like I am doing everything wrong for my moms, babies and myself. I have plans to update my feeding, mineral, vitamin/supplement (etc) routines and revamp my entire program health wise.
> I also plan to pull the last doeling from the trips and see if my first doe who lost her babies will take her. She is a wonderful dam. She has been screaming for babies since she lost hers and she heard the other babies born. My weak mom I am about to go take her temp and try to get a ketone reading. She has no interest in her baby. She'll let her nurse only if she is laying down. I will update on this situation.
> How have you managed during bad seasons? How do you muster the strength to keep going?
> ...


That's so sad im kind having the same problem In only 21 and Im dealing with a boer goat Farm I love them and Im so exited but they have been sick because here is Homestead FL is so hard to raise healthy and beautiful boer goats so my advice is just don't blame yourself and keep fighting you will go through this.! Im getting better everyday and learning how to cure them and have them healthy but is a process.! Good luck


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Oh, no... I've only just found this, and read through. How heart breaking... I'm so sorry you've had to go through this nightmare. :gentle hugs:


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Julia Beatriz ️ said:


> That's so sad im kind having the same problem In only 21 and Im dealing with a boer goat Farm I love them and Im so exited but they have been sick because here is Homestead FL is so hard to raise healthy and beautiful boer goats so my advice is just don't blame yourself and keep fighting you will go through this.! Im getting better everyday and learning how to cure them and have them healthy but is a process.! Good luck


I am 23, I bought my first goats when I was 20. I wanted something more hands on than cattle. Let me tell ya; it has been all hands on deck from day 1. Even through times like this week, they give me motivation and a sense of fulfillment. The area I live in is not ideal for goats, either so I understand how that can make things harder than necessary. I'm on the same page as you! Don't you get disheartened either! Hopefully my experience can help you too.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Just checking in before bed. How are Maiden and the doelings doing?
I know it’s been a nightmare and tested you so hard but I just wanted to say how amazing you are,and though I don’t know you really, I’m proud how well you’ve handled everything and That you’re a strong lady and nobody can take that away from you.
Hang in there, you’re doing great


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Maiden was walking around and eating. I think her body was beginning to go through the process of getting rid of the afterbirth when I left. I brought the girls out to her and she was unsure about her doeling. She might end up being a bottle baby too, but that is okay. Babies are eating well and little Virgie followed me around like a lost puppy while I did chores.

Thank you so much. That moved me to tears. :heart: I really appreciate y'all.

The girls sleeping under my desk while I did homework, Maiden and her doeling and some of the yearlings being curious about the babies.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Aww, great pictures! Sounds like you are feeling better, that’s great! Watch the babies temps though they’ll have a bit of trouble regulating them for a bit yet. Maiden looks better, outside and resting.
You’re doing great!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Aww, great pictures! Sounds like you are feeling better, that's great! Watch the babies temps though they'll have a bit of trouble regulating them for a bit yet. Maiden looks better, outside and resting.
> You're doing great!


I definitely will! It was in the 50's so I figured some sunshine and exercise would do them good. Thank you again :heart: I'll let y'all know how Maiden is doing.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yes, please keep us updated on their progress.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

:kid3::kid3:goats luvs!!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Yay! Yay! I'm so glad things seem to be looking up! Those babies are cutie pies!


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Oh gosh, I am so sorry for all the trouble and heartbreak you've been having! My first kidding season was pretty terrible (one kid stillborn and stuck, one kid squished overnight, thought I was going to lose my doe, etc) but not nearly as traumatic as yours. Don't give up, it will get better! Just remember to take care of yourself first. Get rest, have a hot meal, take a shower, do what you need to do. You can't help your goats if you've run yourself into the ground physically and emotionally. Trust me, I've been there. I remember my days of being a college student and I do not miss them. Back then I only had small animals to take care of, and even that was overwhelming at times. Juggling college and a goat herd both is a serious undertaking and you're doing great. I really hope your luck turns around. Hang in there!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Oh gosh, I am so sorry for all the trouble and heartbreak you've been having! My first kidding season was pretty terrible (one kid stillborn and stuck, one kid squished overnight, thought I was going to lose my doe, etc) but not nearly as traumatic as yours. Don't give up, it will get better! Just remember to take care of yourself first. Get rest, have a hot meal, take a shower, do what you need to do. You can't help your goats if you've run yourself into the ground physically and emotionally. Trust me, I've been there. I remember my days of being a college student and I do not miss them. Back then I only had small animals to take care of, and even that was overwhelming at times. Juggling college and a goat herd both is a serious undertaking and you're doing great. I really hope your luck turns around. Hang in there!


Thank you so much! And I don't mind being busy at all and I love my classes (I'm a welding student), for the most part. Being busy helps keep me sane, but, everyone can only handle so much. I'm doing my best to make sure I'm caring for my body and mind. 
This season was less than desirable but there will be more kidding seasons in the future. Thank you for the encouraging words :heart:


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## Stephanie case (Mar 18, 2019)

Praying today is a better day. Hope you got some rest and the gang is doing better.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Just checking in how are the girls today? Did Maiden finally loose the rest of her placenta?
I was thinking, it might be better to continue the penicillin for a seven day course instead of the normal five day course just to be sure she’s protected because with the placenta hanging so long she’s had an open pathway for bacteria. Just a thought.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Okay. I have good and (more) bad news. Maiden finally passed her placenta! She’s up and eating/walking and acting like she feels much better. 
The bad: Maiden’s last doeling unexpectedly and suddenly passed last night. I have no clue what took her. She didn’t show any symptoms of FKS, she was walking around and alert, eating the whole nine yards. Her temperature had been normal and nothing showed that she was feeling ill. We’ve been very careful about how much and how often the babies get fed. Virgie is doing well. She’s very vocal. I put a diaper on her and she’s bouncing/running all over the house right now. I’m sad about the doeling but I’m so relieved that Maiden finally passed her placenta.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Can you get a necropsy done on the kid who passed most recently? I'm so sorry you lost her :angel:


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Man... I'm so sorry you lost another one. I wonder if the mother was so run down that the kids suffered in utero. I hope you have no more losses this season!!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Damfino said:


> Man... I'm so sorry you lost another one. I wonder if the mother was so run down that the kids suffered in utero. I hope you have no more losses this season!!


I think that was exactly what happened. Plus a traumatic birth and having to be pulled from mom. Thank you so much :heart:


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

HossBoerGoats said:


> Okay. I have good and (more) bad news. Maiden finally passed her placenta! She's up and eating/walking and acting like she feels much better.
> The bad: Maiden's last doeling unexpectedly and suddenly passed last night. I have no clue what took her. She didn't show any symptoms of FKS, she was walking around and alert, eating the whole nine yards. Her temperature had been normal and nothing showed that she was feeling ill. We've been very careful about how much and how often the babies get fed. Virgie is doing well. She's very vocal. I put a diaper on her and she's bouncing/running all over the house right now. I'm sad about the doeling but I'm so relieved that Maiden finally passed her placenta.


Oh no! I'm so so sorry!
Is there anyway for you to get her doeling a necropsy? You've got something more than just "normal" losses going on. Before you breed anymore does i personally would so you and the does don't have to suffer.
I'm glad Virgies doing well. You can crate train her instead of diapering. It's actually pretty easy. That's great news thatMaidens doing so well and the oxytocin worked and she's passed her placenta. It also means there's no extra kid in there like that vet suggested. Hang in there sending prayers your way that there are no more sad happenings only good things.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

So sorry about the doeling.:hug:
But glad Maiden passed her placenta finally. 
I hope you can find out what has caused all the deaths so you can prevent it if possible.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good news on Maiden. ...very sorry you lost her last baby. I agree a necropsy is needed to know why they died.
Good to hear Vergie is doing well.


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

I’ve been sitting here mulling all of this over. I honestly think the problem falls on my shoulders with maintenance. Jolene’s kids were born weak and unable to stand. Her first kidding last year she had twins, both of whom were weak kids that I managed to get up and going. Voodoo had triplets and all 3 stood and nursed after birth. I lost Virgie’s sisters because Voodoo was too weak to stand and accidentally smothered her babies. Maiden was battling toxemia which boils down to a lack of proper feed intake on my end which no doubt had an affect on the quads. I’m going to do stool samples and blood tests of my herd this year. I’m also going to address my mineral issues. I’m going to breed later in the year for late spring kidding. If I had the money I would have taken everyone in for necropsies, but I feel like most of my issues are staring me in the face. I’m going to talk to my vet and neighbor for advice and help. I believe this outcome can only be blamed on my lack of experience and knowledge.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Pregnancy toxemia can be really difficult to avoid if a doe is carrying quads. No matter how well you feed them, it may not be enough. Nigies seem to do well with quads, but larger breeds often have a more difficult time, especially if those babies are all full-sized. If the babies are little it's not so bad, but when those mamas are hefting around four enormous kids it really takes a toll. Even three can be a real drain on mama if the kids are large. 

I aim for May kiddings. I'm also in Colorado and I don't like cold weather kiddings. I want it to be warm and sunny out for my mamas and their babies. I want my mamas to have the full benefit of new green grass in their late pregnancy and early motherhood. I want longer days and sunshine and flowers and warm weather when babies are born. It doesn't solve all the problems but it sure can help!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Damfino said:


> Pregnancy toxemia can be really difficult to avoid if a doe is carrying quads. No matter how well you feed them, it may not be enough. Nigies seem to do well with quads, but larger breeds often have a more difficult time, especially if those babies are all full-sized. If the babies are little it's not so bad, but when those mamas are hefting around four enormous kids it really takes a toll. Even three can be a real drain on mama if the kids are large.
> 
> I aim for May kiddings. I'm also in Colorado and I don't like cold weather kiddings. I want it to be warm and sunny out for my mamas and their babies. I want my mamas to have the full benefit of new green grass in their late pregnancy and early motherhood. I want longer days and sunshine and flowers and warm weather when babies are born. It doesn't solve all the problems but it sure can help!


That's very true. Quads are very hard.

The idea of that sounds so much nicer than spring kidding. I'm so used to that cattle mentality of calving out in spring plus my neighbors have been telling me it's better to kid out when it's cold than when there's a chance of heavy worm load. It might work for them, but, it's not working too well for me. I think I'll aim for late April through May for next season.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Parasites aren't such a huge issue in our dry climate. What works for some people doesn't necessarily work for everyone.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

Holy goaty. I'm so sorry. What a hard, hard kidding season. Thank heavens Maiden and Virgie are ok!
~hug all of you~


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

In humid areas, parasites seem to be more of a problem for late Spring or Summer kids. We are humid here on the North coast of OH. (south of Lake Erie). Its always dampish. But, I could see Colorado as being a good area to kid later. You all are almost a high desert at times.

So sorry that you lost another kid. Hopefully, things get worked out for you. We all have had losses (a bunch here over the years). And as sad as they are, each one teaches something, usually!


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## HossBoerGoats (Dec 28, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> In humid areas, parasites seem to be more of a problem for late Spring or Summer kids. We are humid here on the North coast of OH. (south of Lake Erie). Its always dampish. But, I could see Colorado as being a good area to kid later. You all are almost a high desert at times.
> 
> So sorry that you lost another kid. Hopefully, things get worked out for you. We all have had losses (a bunch here over the years). And as sad as they are, each one teaches something, usually!


Yes, I agree with y'all. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to kid out in cold weather here. I'm going to start aiming for that May season.

As hard as this season was, I have learned a lot. Many hard lessons but I know what to do differently for better outcomes.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## SallyLeBarron (Mar 6, 2021)

HossBoerGoats said:


> Yes, I agree with y'all. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to kid out in cold weather here. I'm going to start aiming for that May season.
> 
> As hard as this season was, I have learned a lot. Many hard lessons but I know what to do differently for better outcomes.


I just joined this site and am having trouble navigating to reply to your loss but want to say I feel your pain. My ex had some of his goats killed years ago from some neighbors pit bulls that got out and he never got over it. Your day will come I believe and I am sorry you're going through this. Virgies adorable may she stay with you in spirit.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Welcome, it takes some getting use to. 

Just know, we are going to get an updated site, so we will all be confused when it happens.


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