# Possible Nerve damage



## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm so concerend right now, my 8 week nubian buckling could barely stand this morning on his hind legs. I have dosed him with selenium and vitamin E gel, and some nutridrench, but don't really know what else to do.

He was weak in the back legs when we got him, dosed him with selenium/vitamin E gel and he has seemed pretty normal for the last month. But yesterday I was noticing some weakness again and then this morning his hind end will barely support him.

Called his breeder and she responded that it might not be selenium, but nerve damage from him being so big and his mommy so small. the breeding was accidental and the doe was really small, and he was a large twin. she said he was slow to get up, and with us he has been fairly normal except that his tail has hung limp (thought it was just him) from that first dosing of selenium. 

but taking his tail into consideration and sometimes how he stands we are wondering if she is correct. 

He was free to us because of the circumstances of his birth and his mom could not support him, but he has really stolen our hearts, he is so sweet. 

the vet said that to do all the testing to see exactly what it could be would cost way more than any goat is worth, as the issues could be genetic, viral, bacterial, nutritional as well as an injury.

The more we think about it the more we think that this is nerve damage from birth, and that he was healing but then did something yesterday or today that inflamed the damage. 

Please keep this little guy in your thoughts as we try to figure out what is wrong.


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## WalnutGroveFarm (Sep 27, 2008)

Im so sorry sure hope he gets better for you.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Where are you located at? Well it could be many things but hoping for the best. I know how they can steal your heart without a moments notice. Does he ever run a temp? I know with some dummy foals back when I worked at the vet clinic I would do massage and therapy that helped over time. If you think he flared something up I would let him relax a couple of days, but if you have anyone near you with an ultrasound machine that is willing to let you use it, I would only do 0.8 pulsed. I prefer alphasonic for animals since you don't have to use gels and they wiggle making it hard to keep contact with the ultrasound head (which can damage the unit). 

FYI I am not a vet or doctor in any way, but have worked human and animal therapy for a good time at previous jobs. If there is a chance it is an infection there is conflicting data on certain therapy's. Therefore if running a fever do not massage, etc. Oh and you may want to check with some of your local chiropractors. I have seen a dog that could not use its back legs at all start walking after a couple of adjustments and a lot of normal (human) chiro's will sometimes adj animals for free depending on which state you live in. (laws play a major role in this practice).

Best wishes for the little one.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I live in KS, but I do not know anyone with an ultrasound machine, nor would I know how to use one if I did! 

We are looking at a vet clinic near here that specializes in chiropractic. He was busy when I called so I am waiting for a return call. The receptionist said that he adjusted one of her goats that was born with a crooked neck though, so he has worked at least a little on goats. . . 

No temp, he seems totally normal except for his weak back end.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Devin...I don't want to cause any undo alarm but has his dam been tested for CAE?

The neurological symptoms of CAE affects kids younger than 6 months usually starting with ataxia


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

It is very well that it could just be a pinched nerve. With him being so large and having such a small route into the world the poor little body gets beat up pretty good in the process. (That is actually why some human babies colic and with adjustments feel better and both mom and baby can sleep). Just remember that it may even take a few adjustments before you will see any improvements. A lot of people think if you don't see it with the first one then it won't work and that's wrong. Sometimes with one adjustment you are like "Wow" and feel automatically better. Whether it takes one or a few adjustments just don't rush things. Bodies take time to heal and you want to keep the inflammation down during recovery. They should have ultrasound, laser or alphasonic therapies available there if they think it is necessary. If you lived closer I would say come on over as I have my own alphasonic machine (best investment I ever made!). 

Please keep us posted. I would love to hear what they have to say.

Oh and I do agree with Liz, was this one from a CAE neg herd? Understand that you can not get accurate results on a kid under 8 months of age, but the mother and rest of the herd can be tested.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

The dam is CAE free supposedly. She had the herd tested this year and all were negative. She did have a couple does with CAE in the recent past and was very straight forward with me on that. but those does have been sold, and when sold the ads stated that they had CAE. She has been very honest with me about everything so far. She got those does without knowing they had CAE (supposedly from a CAE free herd). I liked a buckling last year and she told me that he most likely had CAE because his mother had it and she was not able to be at the birthing to pull him in time. 

anyway, I will look into it, but I don't think he has CAE.

He has a chiro appointment late this afternoon. He is making me sick with his stumbling, my heart is totally breaking for him.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

OK, I checked with the breeder and she has not tested that doe for CAE, but she bottle raised her herself on pasturized milk, so its a pretty slim chance that this is CAE, also CAE doesn't show up til the kid is a couple months old and he had problems at 2 weeks.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for that corrected info Devin... I wasn't toatally sure of the age but thought it was something that was worth considering. I do hope that you can figure out what is going on with him.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks Liz! It definately is worth considering, I have been pouring over everything that I have thought might cause this.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I wonder if it's maybe a spinal issue? Have you considered getting xrays done? I know that would be expensive, but just though i'd mention it. Poor little guy.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

yes, that is what we are leaning towards, a spinal/nerve problem. We are taking him to a chiro later this afternoon. I am not sure if they will take xrays or not. They should at least be able to help us confirm or rule out a spine problem. 

He is acting pretty normal except his stumbling right now. he is playful, loving attention, loving laying in my lap lol! he is really soaking up cuddles. Eating normally . . . I hope we can help him!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Normally they will do x-rays first before adjusting but with animals it is sometimes pretty hard to get good imagines because they wiggle a lot. If they have a digital machine it will be a bit easier but old fashion films can get pricey with blurred images. A suggestion for the AP view is to take a bottle let him put his front legs on x-ray techs arm like a bird perching and drink while they try to get a shot in. 

Best wishes!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Good tip, thanks!


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Let us know how it goes!
M.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Hope he does okay for you! I would definitely not give him any more selenium.

Jan


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Update: we took him to the vet/chiro and he feels it is a spinal injury from birth that has flared up, like we were thinking. He does not think it a desease so that is good. His back did not seem to need adjusting, so everything is in place right now. He gave us a steriod for 3 days that we will give as a shot in his leg. 

He said it could go either way . . . he could recover and be completely normal, or the spine could degenerate and we might have to eventually put him down . . . it is a wait and see thing depending on the severity of the injury. 

Keep him in your prayers!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

That is good to hear and I hope it goes for the best. I am guessing they didn't have a wellness center in their practice? If you can find a local equine massage therapist some of them have Alphasonics (http://www.alphasonic.com/) or if you are close to Durant, OK (http://www.bbsmt.com/Equiflex-Equine-Sp ... ssage.html) Cindi and Sam are outstanding people. (If you plan to visit them let me know and I will give them a heads up).

Also if you have anyone near you that does reiki or rain drop therapy that could help your little one.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I'll have t look those up, I've never heard of them. We are not close to OK at all  but thank you for the suggestion. On the therapies I will look into them. I already plan to massage him daily. He is doing OK right now. Really no better, but still eating and peeing and pooping and he ran to me for his milk tonight (albeit a tad bit clumsy and sideways!) Beside his lack of strength in the hind end he really seems normal, so I hope he will pull through.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

have you given him thiamine to cover any potential.slight deficiency? i have had goats in the past that havent had full blown.polio but have benefited greatly.from supplemental thiamine


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I have given him nutridrench and that has thiamine, but I have not give anything else.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

if you wanted to get some injectable thiamine, it certainly wont hurt him. good luck!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Karen, we were on the same brain wave evidently . . . LOL! We did get some injectable B-complex early this morning and are now dosing him with that. We figured it would not hurt him, and even if it is nerve damage B vitamins are good for that. It might even be something like polio and the b vitamins will help that for sure, regardless it wont hurt. 

He is no better this morning, maybe a bit worse, yesterdays steroid did nothing to help him. we have doses for today and tomorrow that we will give him, but its not looking good. 

I feel I am doing everything I can, but I wish I could figure this thing out! We dosed him with the thiamin level recommended for polio and plan to keep dosing him until it is evident that he is either getting better or its not helping. 

I know he is "just" a goat, but I would appreciate your prayers on his behalf.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Prayers will be said. Oh in our house hold its never "just" a goat. So I know what you mean. They are my children and since we have not been able to have human children all of my critters get 100% of our love and attention. (The hubby still gets torn up when we have to sale a kid, but the only thing that keeps me from being heartbroken is knowing we can not keep all bucklings even if wethered). 

I would love to see a picture of your little one as I am sure he is a cutie pie.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thank you! He is very handsome!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

oh gosh he sis beautiful. i hae always used straight thiamine not the b comex stuff ... and given much much more tha recommended because you cant overdose them, what they dont need they just pee out. though it does turn their pee bright orange.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks

Unfortunately he is getting worse, not better. I'm not sure what to do, if I can do anything at all.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

:hug: :hug: :sigh: sounds like you are doing all that you possible can for him and more.... I'll be praying for you both... ray: 
M.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thank you! 

We are going to try to get him (and everybody) tested for CAE. If he lives long enough to do the test. The dam was bottle raised on pasturized milk, and all precautions have been taken to ensure that he DIDN'T get CAE, but life happens and sometimes even though you do everything right, things go wrong. 

The problem at 2 weeks and his limp tail may be unrelated . . . We will see how things go. We need to get a vet to draw the blood, I don't know how, nor do I have the right enquipment. So its getting late for that today, but we might be able to get a vet tonight, we will see.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Never "just a goat".... those are cuss words here! You are doing all you can for him, before you feel the need to make any decisions, see if the steroids work, sometimes it takes a bit longer. If he's eating and not in significant pain, and showing you that he's got the will to recover....then give him the TLC and supportive therapy to help him recover. He'll let you know when enoughs enough.

I know a goat is much different than a dog but I went through the heartache of seeing my little beagle mix suffer from nerve damage due to a slipped disk...he went from running bunnies to dragging his hind legs within a couple days... he couldn't walk for over a month, had incontinence...still does to an extent and he's no longer allowed to chase bunnies, but he does love to squeel and bay after them as I lead him through the yard, he has the heart of a lion and I know your little guy likely has something different going on but I'll post Jacks link and hope that you may be able to adapt some of his treatment to help your baby. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16871&start=30


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Liz, I have been trying hard not to cry all day . . . well, now you made me cry! Thank you . . . I still have a tiny hope that he is hurt and can get better, but he is getting worse. I'm stumped and frustrated!

I just spent some quality time with him, he is happiest when sitting in my lap getting rubs. He is so frustrated right now that he can't get up and play, you can see his brain working trying his hardest to make his legs work. 

We are continuing supportive care, giving him his meds and vitamin B, making sure he gets food and water. I have been bottle feeding water to him just to make it easier for him. 

We could not get a vet to come out tonight. The one available vet that was open still adamently refused to work on a goat. He "doesn't do" livestock. All we needed was blood to be drawn . . . what a jerk!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

:hug: My intent was not to make you cry but I know that sometimes having an all out release of pent up "not wanting to deal right now" emotions sometimes helps...

I didn't read back through to check on wether or not there were X Rays done, with my Jack, there were no X Rays, just a good vet who'd seen it before and could feel the area that was hurt.

I don't know if anything would be able to be seen and believe me, I know how costly some of the diagnostics and treatments are.... thankfully, we didn't need to go through seeing our Jack endure these, I know how heart broken you are seeing him have the want but can't... I cried many nights because of this and thankfully it was meds that kept our guy comfie while he slowly recovered. Hopefully the steroids kick in and maybe even see about adding an anti inflammatory just in the case that those sensitive nerves are being aggravated by swelling.
Some vets are just cold hearted &@!*&@!#$ and shouldn't be in the profession, I'm sorry that you're dealing with one like that :hug: 

Please know that you and your baby are in my thoughts and prayers :hug:


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

We had him put down, he was getting worse and worse. Today he couldn't even sit up . . . We did get blood drawn on everybody to test for CAE.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss. Prayers are being said for you and your family.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

:hug: So very sorry...you did what you could.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so very sorry :hug:  You did all you knew to do for him...I hope that you can get some answers as to why :hug:


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks guys, very sad place around here right now  I want to thank you all for your support in all this, its really hard to lose a bottle baby!

My doe is due to kid really soon, so hopefully if all goes well with that then our spirits will be lifted! Right now the whole family just feels very much like we lost a puppy. 

I am so concerned for my doeling . . . they have shared a pen since we brought them here, I am very scared she will go through the same thing.


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