# Fencing Confusion



## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

There seems to be many options for fencing and I'm a little confused on what to do. If you could look at my particular situation and provide recommendations I'd appreciate it!

I will be fencing a 40 x 60 rectangle of my front yard. I will be having some mini goats and some fiber goats. I'd like to not break the bank of course, but would rather pay for something that will last. I live in CT in a rural area. I haven't heard of predator animals in my town, but several towns over I heard a friend spotted coyotes and bobcats. And I guess stray dogs is always a possibility.

I'd been looking at panels - particularly cattle due to cost, but I think due to the minis it sounds like I'd have to go with the goat panels at a minimum, but I am starting with adults. I've seen rolled up horse fencing which seems more economical and has smaller holes, but not sure how well that holds up to pushing and the difficulty of installing. I'm assuming I should do something electrical for protection and that's where I have absolutely no clue and am a little scared. I don't have enough sun to run it that way unless it had a very long cord and I could put the solar piece up on my roof. 

Also, if I did have electrical fence of some sort, could I leave the goats house open at night to the pen? 

Please help - I really don't want to screw up this decision - Thanks! 
Christine


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

What about this field fencing - seems like a lot of good reviews and economical.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft

I wonder if I could pair up with a string of barbed wire low and at the top and if that would work with predators. Or would I have to add some electrical component. I'm not even sure if barbed wire is ok to use.

Thanks!


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

We do all our own fencing and have tried a wide variety, so here is our $.02.

First - no no no barbed wire. No!

The least expensive type would be high tension wire with electric added. There is a training period for the goats to realize they must keep off it. Our first 2 goats were 4 month old nubian does that were fenced in using 5 strands of wire, 2 of which were electric - and they still got out. It is not our choice.

Woven wire 2 x 4 horse fence is a good choice for smaller goats. It needs stretched on installation, but holds up very well to goats rubbing on it and keeps little ones in and dogs out (a really determined dog or coyote will dig under it). It costs more than woven goat fence because it has more wire content.

Woven goat wire is second best choice, will also need stretched at installation - larger goats will stretch it some more over time, causing sag.

Cattle panels - only good for big goats without horns. Horned goats will get their heads caught in the spaces; little goats will escape.

Goat panels - these are like cattle panels but with 4 x 4 holes - excellent choice but very expensive.

Welded wire rolled fence - easy to install and cheap, does not need stretched like woven wire - but flimsy and will not hold up over time.

I would go with the woven horse fence or a combo of goat fencing and a strand of electric to keep the goats off it.

Good luck!


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Wow, thanks for that great input and review of the options! I had just found the no climb horse field fencing below. I can get away with one roll, so it's certainly doable. If I do this, do you think it's necessary to add electrical and could I still let goats have access to the pen at all times?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-60-in-x-200-ft?cm_vc=IOPDP1


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

You will not need electric with the no climb horse fence ... if dogs/predators are a big concern you could put a strand outside the fence ... you could also bury a strand of barbed wire outside the fence, six inches from the fence and a couple inches deep if you are worried about digging dogs.

Tip - when planning your fence if you use woven wire it will need stretched - make your fence line as straight as possible - stretching curved fence rows is a royal PIA!


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

LOL - I just watched a video from the mfg. on installing the field fencing. For my small space, the upgrade to do the goat panels is about $300. Balancing that cost difference and getting my husband to help me put up field fencing any time soon tells me I'll likely be getting goat panels 

I'm not overly worried about predators, I've never seen anything. But I'd feel horrible if something every happened that I could have prevented. I wish the goat panels were taller, I think I'll leave the posts higher and that gives me an option of putting an electric strand up top.


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

D not use woven wire, they will rub and destroy it. It doesn't hold up! I use goat and sheep welded wire from tractor supply. It is 279.00 for 330 ft. Very strong and predators cant get through it! Neighbors dogs could kill your goats!


Whoops ,,other way around..Welded wire doesnt hold up..Buy woven Wire!


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Is it ok to use pressure treated wood fence posts? I was concerned about the goats eating at them; which is why I'd been thinking of metal posts. I think having wood posts would look a little nicer and likely cheaper.


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

The 330 foot rolls from tractor supply, Red Brand, are the woven wire, it is heavy duty. I have installed over a mile of it. The welded wire rolls, typically 100 ft rolls, are the light duty, usually used for dogs. Woven wire does have some shortcomings too, strong goats can actually push the openings larger to get their heads through, and if they have horns can become stuck. Welded panels are our choice now, but they are 16' in length and cost about 40% more than woven wire rolls.

Woven wire: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft

Welded wire: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/welded-wire-48-in-x-100-ft?cm_vc=IOPDP1

We refer to wire as welded or woven wire; it may not be technically correct, I don't know, but what we call woven wire has coils of wire at each joint linking vertical to horizontal wires. They are tight joints but can be moved. And they must be stretched to look good - big goats will restretch them as they hang on the posts and the wire will sag. Not a problem with NDG and pygmies.

Treated posts are fine. Make sure they are very securely in the ground. We drive our wood posts at least 3'. We also use T-Posts driven 2' - they don't need to be as deep because they flex.


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

We use cattle panels and metal stakes. Which is kind of inconvemient during thunderstorm season.... If we get a storm that's close, we have to bring the goats into the shed with my birds. Otherwise, it works great! One thing you can do, if you have goats and kids getting out through the holes, is wrap some chicken wire or plastic garden fencing around the bottom of the pen.


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## Chopsgoats (Aug 20, 2013)

We also live in connecticut, I would not leave the goats outside at night. You might not see any predators now, but once you bring home some animals you could possibly bring un wanted critters as well.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Chopsgoats said:


> We also live in connecticut, I would not leave the goats outside at night. You might not see any predators now, but once you bring home some animals you could possibly bring un wanted critters as well.


 Thanks for that feedback, it made me reconsider my temporary shelter plans. I was thinking of borrowing or renting a calf hutch from a local farm for a few months until I got my permanent structure. But now I'm going to go with this (I'll add some extra vents) and can then use it for extra hay storage later on!

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suncast-...t-4-5-in-Resin-Storage-Shed-BMS7791/203702042


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Oooo, I like that shelter and I like the price too. Do you also have a place to store your supplies? (Hay, grain, etc.)


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

4"x4" goat panels or field fencing will not keep mini kids in; you would need 2"x4" horse no-climb.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

groovyoldlady said:


> Oooo, I like that shelter and I like the price too. Do you also have a place to store your supplies? (Hay, grain, etc.)


I see this brand has a variety of sizes with good reviews. I think I'm just going to get two, one for shelter and one for storage now. I could later make a breezeway to connect them. Any idea how much room I need for hay for 4 goats who won't have much pasture? It would probably be nice to store a month I'd imagine.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

LibertyHomesteadFarm said:


> 4"x4" goat panels or field fencing will not keep mini kids in; you would need 2"x4" horse no-climb.


Thanks. I was starting to lean towards horse fencing because of the 60 inches height so I wouldn't have to add electrical for predators.


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

ctopal said:


> Thanks for that feedback, it made me reconsider my temporary shelter plans. I was thinking of borrowing or renting a calf hutch from a local farm for a few months until I got my permanent structure. But now I'm going to go with this (I'll add some extra vents) and can then use it for extra hay storage later on!
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suncast-...t-4-5-in-Resin-Storage-Shed-BMS7791/203702042


That's a nice looking storage building, especially for the price! However, it doesn't look like it has ventilation. If you get it, you'll need to add some if you're keeping goat in there. Goats really need to be in a well-ventilated area.

If you want to do a calf hutch to start with and still be able to offer some protection at night, you could just get a chain link dog kennel to put around it. Before we built our barn, we just had a little structure that was basically a big dog house inside of a 10x10x6 kennel, which worked pretty well for our minis.


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

ctopal said:


> Thanks. I was starting to lean towards horse fencing because of the 60 inches height so I wouldn't have to add electrical for predators.


I would still use electric at the top, middle, and bottom for predators; coyotes and stray dogs can dig under and (if very determined) jump over. The electric will also keep the goats from pushing the fence over.


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## Patch (Jul 1, 2014)

I use Stay Tuff goat field fencing. You need to stretch it when you install it, but it works like a charm. It is high tensile and does not care when my boer goats rub on it.

http://staytuff.com/Goat.asp

Goat-Tuff is designed to keep predators out and heads in. Goat-Tuff can be used with 25' post centers, requiring no intermediate stays. It has 13 horizontal wires with a 12" vertical stay spacing, so that if a goat gets its head through it can turn and get it back out. The lower 18" of the line wires are only 3" apart, providing predator protection. Goat-Tuff can be built for 30-35% less than the typical sheep and goat fence available today.

I get mine at McCoys:
https://shop.mccoys.com/farm-ranch-yard/fencing/field-fence/p.3667

Around $225 for a roll of 330 ft, but you use less posts.

I have over 2.5 miles of it that I put up myself and it is great. There are several videos on this fencing on YouTube.

I run one line of bard wire on the bottom that I use to keep my posts in a straight line and then leave in place to keep the dogs from digging under. I also run one on top to discourage any climbers. No electric.

Here is a picture of a two AC pasture I just finished.

<<well, can't get the Manage Attachments to let me browse......., it just blinks at me....I guess I need some help to post a pic :brickwall:>>

-Patch


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

Patch said:


> http://staytuff.com/Goat.asp
> 
> Goat-Tuff is designed to keep predators out and heads in. Goat-Tuff can be used with 25' post centers, requiring no intermediate stays. It has 13 horizontal wires with a 12" vertical stay spacing, so that if a goat gets its head through it can turn and get it back out. The lower 18" of the line wires are only 3" apart, providing predator protection. Goat-Tuff can be built for 30-35% less than the typical sheep and goat fence available today.
> 
> ...


This looks like really good fencing and the price is great, wish it was available near us in central PA.


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

Patch said:


> I use Stay Tuff goat field fencing. You need to stretch it when you install it, but it works like a charm. It is high tensile and does not care when my boer goats rub on it.
> 
> http://staytuff.com/Goat.asp
> 
> ...


One caution about barbed wire, you shouldn't use it anywhere near dairy goats because it can tear up their udders.


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## Patch (Jul 1, 2014)

LibertyHomesteadFarm said:


> One caution about barbed wire, you shouldn't use it anywhere near dairy goats because it can tear up their udders.


I am not saying this is ever impossible, but with one strand on the floor on the OUTSIDE of the posts and the field fence on the inside while the other is at 4.5' height (more to keep predators from climbing over) it would extremely difficult to touch udders on this set up.

-Patch


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## Patch (Jul 1, 2014)

....same place after three weeks....:think:


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## Patch (Jul 1, 2014)

F-A-R-MdotUS said:


> This looks like really good fencing and the price is great, wish it was available near us in central PA.


I would call Stay Tuff and ask them if they have a supplier in your area.

It can't hurt. Also, I managed to post some pictures of the set up.

I wish you luck!

-Patch


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Have you looked at Premier1 website? They show a lot of fencing options and are very informative. I used their electric netting fencing to contain my goats for the first year we lived here- until we got permanent fencing up. I've used it a lot for many other animals too


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

*Fencing for Goats*

My advice is use the goat panels. By far the best option. Will last for ever and keep every thing out that can't climb. Coyotes will dig but rarely do. Bobcats are not a concern except with kids or possible a miniature or Nigerian. I have Bobcats and Coyotes in woods behind my house and yes I live in country with miles of pasture/woods behind me. So far no problems. I do put out snares for coyotes and catch several each year, just as a defensive effort. Anyway, I feel sure you will be pleased with the goat panels. T post is all that is needed to attach the panels to in order to keep them up right. Just set a couple of Treated wood post to attach a gate to for entry.


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

TexasGoatMan said:


> My advice is use the goat panels. By far the best option. Will last for ever and keep every thing out that can't climb. Coyotes will dig but rarely do. Bobcats are not a concern except with kids or possible a miniature or Nigerian. I have Bobcats and Coyotes in woods behind my house and yes I live in country with miles of pasture/woods behind me. So far no problems. I do put out snares for coyotes and catch several each year, just as a defensive effort. Anyway, I feel sure you will be pleased with the goat panels. T post is all that is needed to attach the panels to in order to keep them up right. Just set a couple of Treated wood post to attach a gate to for entry.


I don't know about Texas bobcats, but here in SC bobcats regularly prey on whitetail deer...so a standard goat isn't out of the question, but as long as your goats aren't walking through the woods at night, they should be fine! :-D


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

Patch said:


> I am not saying this is ever impossible, but with one strand on the floor on the OUTSIDE of the posts and the field fence on the inside while the other is at 4.5' height (more to keep predators from climbing over) it would extremely difficult to touch udders on this set up.
> 
> -Patch


Weeellllll.....I have had goats JUMP (not climb, jump) 5+ foot fences, so if you have acrobatic goats, I would stick with electric wire over barbed. Not to mention it's cheaper!
Of course, dairy goats are way more acrobatic/active than meat goats too, so if you have meat goats, barbed wire will be just fine. 
I raise dairy goats, so no barbed for me!


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

Barbed wire is a bad idea IMHO, except buried outside the fence if you have dogs that dig at your fence. Even if your goats don't get caught up in the wire, unless you have 6 or 7 foot high fence deer will jump it and smaller/younger ones may get maimed. Electric tape or a single strand of charged wire with a solar charger really isn't very expensive. We use 48" tall wire, panels and 50" tall panels and have never had a goat go over the top. We do not use charged wires or barbed wire.

Edit: Actually remember now 1 of our nubians jumped a 4' fence at 5 months old - barely cleared it and would have been messed up by barbed wire at the top.


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

Patch said:


> I would call Stay Tuff and ask them if they have a supplier in your area.
> 
> It can't hurt. Also, I managed to post some pictures of the set up.
> 
> ...


The only supplier in our area is more than 40 miles from us. We have really taken a liking to panels anyway, most of our fields have curves and stretching wire on curves is not fun.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Well I went down to my local TSC to see what they have and get a better idea of how things fit together and install, although I'm still a little fuzzy on some areas. Here's a few more questions. Thanks for bearing and sticking with me here 

1. Would it be ok to us the 7ft. heavy duty metal T poles for all of the fence poles or do I need to have some wooden ones for better support? The salesman said I could use just metal and that they are solid. Pounding metal seems easier installation then drilling and filling holes to use the wooden posts.
2. Would the answer to #1 differ if I went with a rolled up fence vs. a feedlot panel?
3. If I did the panels, can I do a post every 8 feet or do I have to go every 4 feet?
4. So just an observation, but the gates available seem to go only to 4 feet, seems useless then to get 5ft. fencing to keep predators out as they could go for the gates. Are there other gates out there that I should be considering?
5. Seems like I should get at least some type of electrical fencing for predators. And that I should run a line low on the outside of my poles. Run one high at the top of my poles and then one in the middle. I liked the look/idea of the poly rope. I also thought it would be good for my dogs because they could see it and could avoid it. But wouldn't predators do the same thing and maybe find other ways?

Once I get the physical fencing figured out, I'm sure I'll have to pick brains more on electric fencing. But good news, progress being made, I ordered my "goat barn" today from Home Depot with a price match for $1,400. See below, can't wait to set it up!

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Suncast-...4-1-2-in-Resin-Storage-Shed-BMS8130/205092440

Thanks all!


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

And one more thought - what about having a chain link fence instlled?


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

1. You should use wood posts at corners and in in the middle of long runs; t-posts in between.
2. same w/ roll fence and feedlot panel.
3. I would do every 4 feet w/ the feedlot panels
4. there are 5 foot gates you can get, but 4 foot fencing w/ electric wire on top is more than enough to keep predators out, so no specific need for 5 foot fencing.
5. polywire works well, but it breaks easier and doesn't carry much charge. I use 17-12 ga steel wire.

chain link works well, its just expensive, and you would still need electric to keep the predators out.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Wow, you weren't kidding on the chain link. I couldn't get a quote for less than $5,000 installed. 

So I'm back to using the goat panels and I'll either do all wood posts every 4ft or I'll do 1/2 wood and 1/2 metal. Thanks!


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

Oh, and if you do electric fence, Premier1 supply sells electified netting that is moveable, cheap and effective!


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## LaurieW (Sep 24, 2013)

Our experience - 5 wire electric. It is perfect for keeping goats in and off it. We have La-Mancha as well as La-Mancha/Nigerian (mini). We had one young goat go through but right back inside. They learned quickly to stay clear of it, and when one gets 'popped' it is loud enough they all jump back, even our guardian dog.

With electric you need to be sure to get a heavy gauge wire and a strong enough box (electric unit) to carry a strong shock. Do not skip the grounding of it, that is important to properly using it. Goats, need a stronger shock than some other livestock. Also get one with low impediment (grass or things can touch it and not drain the power). Even with this feature you will need to keep the fence line maintained, it can take some grass or small limbs touching it but depending on load it can effect the proper shock delivered.

We have used welded wire 2x4 -- goats will destroy woven wire eventually. Unless you keep them off it - run some electric along the top, maybe bottom if you use woven wire.

On our webpage I kept the links and sites I found most important in putting in an electric fence. We considered many options before going electric. If money were no object I would have a wooden fence all around, backed with electric along the top and bottom...pretty and effective. However, money was a consideration for us and electric was our best choice, especially our steep terrain.

http://www.widenfarm.com/fencing-for-goats.php

Our 'weakest link', the gate. Initial we had a chain just hung around it and a t-post to close it. The goats mouth everything and soon had it unhooked and grazing just outside the gate. So we now pull it through and hook it to the welded wire. We put welded wire (2x4) on the gate (with zip ties to hold it to the gate) because the openings were large enough the mini and baby goats would easily pass through. There is also another gate closure mechanism we purchased and installed, which is great but I do not recall the name of it. I will have to locate that as well as take a photo and add to the webpage.

Good luck with whatever you decide to install. 

Edit:
If you use electric you can use all T-post. However, in the corners we have doubled the T-post to prevent them from leaning/pulling out...once the fence is tightened the corners will have a lot of pull. Wooden post are best, if there would be a lot of load. As we have expanded from a couple of acres and go up in coverage we have replaced double corner t-post with wooden. We are fortunate to have locust trees on our property and cut/use them for the corners. 
The other nice thing about electric, less post...if you land is flat. We have steep and hilly terrain so we do not have spans as long as we could, if it were flat.

In talking about shelters - we built our first goat shelter for under $500 and it still serves well. First photos are the building and bringing home our first 4 goats. We removed the cattle panel and installed a sliding barn door. It can easily fit 11 goats (the max amount we have owned to date)



Goat Hay Feeder by Laurie W, on Flickr

Smokey & Sugar Star by Laurie W, on Flickr

My husband built a rather large dog house for our Great Pyrenees (goat guardian dog). The goats loved it and 10 goats fit inside (not mini goats either). The fence and gate is temp. when the dog was a puppy he needed time inside his dog house -- without the goats.

Goats in Dog House by Laurie W, on Flickr

About a year later when we were ready for our first Kids hubby built another barn to have 2 birthing 'suites'. Then the goats giving birth could do so in peace while the other goats remained in the pasture with the original shelter. When the newer barn is not used for birthing it is another shelter for our goats.

Digging the gate Post by Laurie W, on Flickr

Inside 1/2 being used as one birthing stall.

Kidding Stall by Laurie W, on Flickr


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

Thought I would mention (I was reminded because we are doing a fence job) - we use this tool for driving T-posts and chain link fence pipes - HIGHLY RECOMMEND it - it is expensive but made in the USA and we have easily driven more than 500 posts with it, finally had to replace the T-Post adapter after 6 years use:

http://www.rohrermfg.com/

Way better than hand driving, we have punched right through stones with this thing!


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## suzigoat (Mar 5, 2015)

Hello! We have used Jeffers Electric Fencing with the Sun Box that does not require electricity. It is wonderful. We have 400 feet of it strung in a pasture and we rotate the pasture and move the electric fence accordingly. Once zapped, the goats will not approach the fence. Thanks


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

Chain link is ridiculous to have installed. I got a quote for 150 ft for 2K. For that amount not only will I install it myself, I should go into business installing fencing. That is obnoxious.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

We used the red brand sheep and goat fence -easy to put up but with new babies they can get thru the 4 in squares. I have nigerians. It is a pain the first few weeks of their life but then the fence works great. I have a hot wire on top. I have a camera system in the barn and can hear any noise. I wish we had used chain link -but it is pretty costly I think. We also have Niteguards on outside posts to flash all night. I think this is a good predator deterent and they last for several years. Jeffers had a good price on a four pack. We also have lights on to shine into the woods -we have bobcats and cougar here so anything that will keep them away. So far so good.


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## louandotis (Aug 12, 2013)

I installed electric wires (one high, one low) a few months ago, and my electric bill went through the roof. I have an old Agway low impedance AC fence charger, probably at least 30 years old. Would a newer charger be more efficient? Can anybody recommeNd one?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sure a newer one would be better but not sure of brand.


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## ctopal (Jul 8, 2015)

Yikes - hopefully I have enough sun for a solar electric fence option. Do the chargers need to be physically right next to the fence? Could I have it on the roof of my house getting sun and run some kind of wires to the fence? 

The only reason I'm adding electric is for predator deterrent during the day. I was taking a look at some of the charger's at TSC and noticed they were rated by animal with goats needing higher joules, but I didn't notice any that included dogs/coyotes. Does anyone know of any that are effective against those animals? Also, would it pose a health hazard to the goats, is it too much electricity? Or to dogs as well as we have pets that will need to be trained.

Thanks!
Christine


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## F-A-R-MdotUS (May 18, 2015)

ctopal said:


> Yikes - hopefully I have enough sun for a solar electric fence option. Do the chargers need to be physically right next to the fence? Could I have it on the roof of my house getting sun and run some kind of wires to the fence?


All of the solar chargers I have seen have the solar panels mounted directly on the charger, so if you mount it on your roof or on a pole, it will work but you will lose the length of the additional wire required. It will also be inconvenient for you to adjust the wire voltage, but you could do it...I have seen a solar charger mounted on the top of a 16' fence post at a wolf enclosure.


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

Yes, a newer one would be WAY more efficient...I use a Parmak super 5 energizer and you can hardly tell its using any electricity! Even running @ 18,000-20,000 volts most days!


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