# possible pregnancy in 8 month old doe



## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

my 8 month old goat Fiona i think is 3 or 4 months pregnant by a young buck that was 2.5 months old and still housed in the same pen (this was before I officially purchased her and her mother) and she is looking pregnant (too me) I have a picture from a few weeks before Halloween and a picture from last week. I would love to hear everyone's opinion on the pictures, like if she looks pregnant or not. October picture








a week ago







the reason I think she is pregnant is she out of any of the babies was thinner and had a very dairy like figure and within less than a month this is what she looks like she never gained weight this fast before and i found her thirty minutes about after her being born and I watch her for signs of heat every day and she hasn't gone into heat (that I've noticed since before august 15


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

We need a picture of her back end with tail up. Picture of lady parts and udder.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok I will take them tomorrow the goats currently don't live at my house (complicated story)
the thing with the udder is her mom, Fancy didn't bag up until three days before she had her kids


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, a pic would help.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

this is the best i could do, sorry she was nervous cause i moved my animals to my house last night

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this is very swollen for her


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Maybe try and take another picture when she feels more comfortable. We need a picture of the full back end.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, we need a pic like you have to include her tail up naturally and udder area.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok i will try to take a pic tomorrow morning


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

also what are some other ways to test for pregnancy


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

we are getting a vet up the week after thanksgiving for routine checks and cow/goat pregnancy checks and vaccines (I think?)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona's udder seems to be getting a little more stretchy if you get what I mean, not really filling up though


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

If you are already having a vet out, I'd go ahead and have him/her Ultrasound the doe.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

She doesn't really look pregnant to me from the photo you posted, but another one a little father out would definitely help. 

Udder development means pregnant or precocious. She'd be right on time with udder development if she was 3-4 months along.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I think she is pregnant just because she has shown no signs of heat at all since the beginning of August or the ending of July and I know I mentioned this by I have seen her every day since she was newly born so I know her signs of heat really well an she hasn't shown signs. Like a month ago me and my mother just got a funny feeling that Fiona might be pregnant. Again I know I mentioned this before but I felt it wort h mentioning again. Her "Lady parts" have been swollen for a few weeks now. So that is what really got me wondering even more if she is pregnant. But vet is conning soon so all will be cleared up


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, the vet will be able to tell you, let us know.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

this is her mom but it is what Fiona usually looks like so i am using it as a kind of before picture
















the next is Fiona today and she is more swollen then before and she is about as swollen as fancy was before she had Fiona.
just have to say that Fiona and Fancy at both small goats for their breed


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I am just wondering IF Fiona is pregnant would it affect her health in any way since she is still pretty young. I am just wondering because i heard from a friend that an accidentally bred doe had her kids then never grew after having them and the doe was like 8 months old. is this a possibility with Fiona and are there any other conditions i should be worried about? am i just being paranoid about something that isn't for sure? the person i herd the story from is a trustworthy person who has been raising saanens for a while.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona's udder feels a little more stretchy today even more than yesterday. could just be all in my head


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Our girls can drive us crazy wondering about pregnancy! When your vet ultrasounds, he/she will have an educated guess as to how far along she is, if she is pregnant. There are risks associated with kidding at a very young age - again they can advise you. Let us know what the results are. Sometimes "lady parts" are poofy when in heat. Let's hope that's the case for your girl. - Also what breed is she and about how much does she weigh?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

they have been puffy for about two and a half weeks now so I'm pretty positive she is not in heat


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I'm so nervous that if Fiona is pregnant she will kid before the vet comes and i will give the vets a panicked phone call like "Help my very young doe kidded and i don't know what to do for the doe please come." i know basically what to do if something happens but I don't know a lot about the after care for the doe.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

At that age, young does still have a lot of growing and maturing to do. A doe puts the kids as top priority - they get the minerals and nutrients they need, she gets whatever is left. 

Feed a high quality (I would recommend free choice alfalfa and some kind of grain) and make sure she gets plenty of minerals - free choice loose minerals, and extra copper and selenium as needed. 

Breeding young can ready take a toll on the does, so you might want to consider not breeding her next year to give her body a break. (If she is indeed bred.)

A couple things about the kidding process:
-If the doe pushes for 30 minutes or more, something is wrong and she is going to need help
-You can figure out if she has more kids in her by bouncing her stomach (basically just clasp your hands around her belly right in front of her udder and pull upward - you will feel kids if there are any in there)
-The placenta should come out within a couple hours of delivery of the final kid. If it doesn't, you will need to help out (either by giving a selenium supplement and or involving a vet, or apply a small amount of weight if there is some placenta hanging out)

After the kidding:
-Give the doe a bucket of fresh water, and a bucket of warm molasses water
-Also give her some hay, and some sort of treat if you want
-Dip/spray the kids' umbilical cords with iodine
-If the umbilical cords are dragging on the ground, cut the just enough so that they aren't anymore. Don't cut them too closely
-Make sure the kids are nursing within an hour or so of delivery. Sometimes they will need help 

Hopefully that helps some. Chances are everything will be fine. And hey, you're probably going to spend hours and many sleepless night worrying about her and researching and preparing... and then come home one day to two perfectly healthy kids. That's what happened to me


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Old Post Farm said:


> I am just wondering IF Fiona is pregnant would it affect her health in any way since she is still pretty young. I am just wondering because i heard from a friend that an accidentally bred doe had her kids then never grew after having them and the doe was like 8 months old. is this a possibility with Fiona and are there any other conditions i should be worried about? am i just being paranoid about something that isn't for sure? the person i herd the story from is a trustworthy person who has been raising saanens for a while.


So before I knew better I bred my does at 7-8 months old. I still have some of those does out there and they are no smaller then the rest, actually one is one of my biggest does BUT I also pretty much poured the feed to them after they kidded. As mentioned they are still growing a fairly good amount at that age and instead of focusing all their input into growing they are sharing with kids. I personally, if she is bred not to too crazy on the feed right now but as soon as those suckers come out keep upping her feed to a super good amount. One person I know of breeds her does fairly young and what she does is pulls anything over a single and both doe and kid does very well. I'm not sure if she pulls the doe and gives her extras or not but there is that option and if you do I would still feed her well


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

The concern is that she is already pregnant by at least 3 months at her current age of 8 months. There are concerns being so young - so do speak to your vet about that if she is indeed pregnant.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona has been wanting a lot more grain lately like twice of what she usually eats. she usually gets 2 cups of grain 2 times a day and half a cup (maybe) as a treat but never eats the whole amount. today she was eating everything she had and was being more protective of her food (protective not to me but to her mom). then after evening chores she was in the feed area and kept trying to get the grain bucket open and asking for more food (I didn't give her any more) but that is a tremendous amount of feed for her to actually eat is this a sign that she is pregnant she has also been more moody which I read can be a sign to.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

:update:
Fiona's teats look a little larger today. I was going to shave her so I could see her udder easier but the clippers weren't working so I didn't even bother taking a picture. she looks larger today too even before eating all that grain


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

sadly the vet can't come until the Thursday after thanksgiving so that is annoying


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Her teats getting longer could just mean she is maturing (growing). My first freshener does usually don't get longer teats until the very end of their pregnancy - it is the udder itself that does most of the growing in FFs. 

I don't know about her acting hungrier, but I just wanted to say that my Saanen is a piggy and would eat any amount of grain I'd put in front of her.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

You can draw blood and send it in for a pregnancy test. It's cheap and easy. 
How big is this doe, say, compared to her mom? Even small does usually don't have trouble kidding, as long as they aren't teeny tiny.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I will get a picture of them side by side later today


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

actually Fiona is like 4 or 5 inches taller than a Nigerian dwarf


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

maybe the sameish size as a nigerian


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

when should I be able to the kids or be able to see them kicking


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You may never see anything. If you do it is towards the end of pregnancy when they are taking up a lot of room.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok thanks


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Go to Fiasco Farm website and look up how to use a tape measure to weigh her. You can get a rough idea as to how much she weighs now. You can also do that with your mature doe. If she isn't developing an udder at this point, I wouldn't stress about waiting for the vet to see the results of the ultrasound. Without noticeable udder development, I wouldn't worry about her kidding in the near future.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I had a friend come over who works at a vets office and has been going to the same farm that the goats were kept at for years and she thinks that it is possible that Fiona is pregnant but she also thinks that Fiona is big enough that having kids won't be a problem


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I know of a couple people who have had young does kid fine but its not recommended,
She may not even be bred


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Saanen goats are a breed unto themselves. They grow more in their second year than they do in their first. I hope you have planned for the feed she will need to sustain a kid or two plus grow the doe. 
Right now she isn't even getting enough for herself, much less a kid. 
Several things I would suggest if you're interested. I bred and raised Saanen goats for many years.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I would very much like any suggestions 
I do tr to feed her as much as possible but she won't eat very much at one time I have tried spacing the feedings but Fiona usually won't eat more than two and a half cups of the feed but I also think she doesn't like the feed we give her right now. I feed an all stock textured feed with 16%protein. I do have a feed that I use for my young calf that is a 20% protein feed and Fiona always try to steal that. Should I feed her the calf feed? 
:update:
Fiona has a bigger belly bulge on her right side. I tried getting a picture but it doesn't capture the real shape of how big she is.
Again I would love advice goat hiker thank You in advance


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, cattle grain is OK for goats. That one is super high in protein, but in moderation is OK. 
Introduce slowly, then increase it. Does it have molasses in it? If so, that part of it isn't the best for goats, unless they are a month prior to kidding or have just kidded.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

The goat g


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Two Saanen does here would get...

3 quarts of good quality alfalfa pellets
1 quart of beet pulp pellets 

Plus...
6 cups rolled oats
1 cup Animax or Calf Manna
1/4 cup black oil sunflower seeds

Both mixes to be fed separately to prevent shuffling and twice a day to 2 does.

Free choice quality grass hay 

Replamin Plus...
Loading dose of 5 cc per doe once a day for 5 days then once a week from then on. I just mix this into their oat mix. This will help with some of the deficiency issues I'm seeing in their pictures.

Cobalt block...
This builds healthy red blood cells, keeps the thyroid healthy, helps regulate hormone systems, prevents "cribbing" behavior, and keeps their water consumption higher.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok thank you so much.
what i meant to say above was that the goat grain has molasses in it but the calf grain is plain


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

would the mixes be split in half? and could you possibly tell me the schedule you feed the mixes?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona's back end is looking more puffy and her udder is looking the same


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## B Taylor (Nov 24, 2017)

From my look from the set of pictures with the udders, it looks like it is pretty full and her legs look a little spread apart. A way you can tell if she is pregnant, and this seems to work for many people, is to press gently on her right side( when she is facing you) and under her right in front of her udder. How long have you had a billy in the pen with her?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

the one with an udder is Fiona's Mom Fancy they just look like twins so i used it as a before picture


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

the buck was with her for 2 1/2 months but he was young and it was an accidental so I'm not sure when she would be bred


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i THINK i felt a baby kick today but, I have only felt for calves in extremely pregnant cows so i don't exactly know what I'm feeling for. but it really didn't feel like a gut movement. so i really hope I'm wrong and she is not pregnant, just because i don't want to deal with any complications that could occur. again I THINK I felt a kid not but positive


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You can feel kid movement late term pregnancy, not early term. It is the right side or just in front of the udder area to feel for kids. 
Left side is rumen.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

It was on her right side and the latest she would be bred would be either September 3rd or 10th so she would be pretty pregnant


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is a possibility.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

dang


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

vet is coming on Thursday i think?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Let us know.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I am so nervous


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

:update:
Fiona's appetite has gone up even more instead of 2 cups of grain now she is eating 3 cups (throughout the whole day)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thank you toth for the support and advice


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You bet, glad to of helped.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona's right side is looking larger than her left and still only very slight movement (that I can only feel). how can i tell if i am feeling babies Vs. gut movement because I think I felt babies but, I'm not sure


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

To me, kids will feel knobbier and firmer than just normal rumen movement. I usually find them hiding lower down on the right side, as apposed to higher up and closer to the short ribs. But keep in mind that you won't be able to feel babies in every pregnancy.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok cool thanks


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

could I get votes on what people think about Fiona. pregnant or not pregnant.
I vote pregnant. not that i want her to be pregnant but I think she is.
let the voting begin


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I am going to guess (and hope) that she is not bred...


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Im going to guess she isnt


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

vet comes tomorrow YAY!!!!!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Let us know!


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I vote no


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I'm so nervous but extremely excited to find out the if she is pregnant


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good luck.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

the vets came they did an ultra sound and it looks like she is not pregnant YAY!!!. but just to be sure they are also doing a blood test. i will probably get the results on Tuesday. cross your fingers that she isn't pregnant


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Praying she isn't preggo.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

me too thanks


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

good news is that her mom and my cow who are supposed to be pregnant are defiantly pregnant


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awesome.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Perfect! The ones you want bred are bred, and the one you don't want bred isn't! Unfortunately it didn't go that way for me this year.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That is great news  Hopefully the blood test will be negative also.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

hopefully
btw what would a vet believe if the ultrasound was negative but the blood test was positive


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

They'd probably believe the ultrasound.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok thanks
Fiona has a bit of discharge today (not heat like) but like i said the vet says she is probably not pregnant so she is being so confusing.
i am considering the possibility that she is having a false pregnancy would anyone think this could be possible.
and how likely in a first freshener is a false pregnancy


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I would think they'd believe the blood test, but I guess it all depends on the vet. 
Last September our vet performed an Ultrasound on one of our does (at 33 days' gestation), they couldn't find a heartbeat and said she was open. They also drew blood (so that we could test our herd for diseases), and I had the lab run a blood test on that one doe as well. It was positive. Now she is much rounder and is developing an udder, so in this case the blood test worked!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They can miss kids in an ultrasound. So it is possible to look negative for an ultrasound and have a positive blood test.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

really could they miss kids in a at least 3 moths pregnant doe???? 
the vet also said even though she is so young if she was pregnant she probably wouldn't have any trouble kidding
it is just so annoying playing the hurry up and wait game


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sorry if I missed this, but what breed of goat would she be bred to? 
It is very possible that she would kid without trouble, but she may be stunted because of being bred so young.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I think there really isn't any way the blood test and ultrasound could be inconsistent with each other.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't think a vet would miss a pregnancy at 3 months bred. If she has some discharge she may be going into heat. Nice that you have a blood test for confirmation, but I think she is open.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It really is possible. Seen it happen myself. Plus you don't know how well the vet is with using the ultrasound.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Blood test is more accurate than the ultra sound.
Things can be missed.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but what breed of goat would she be bred to?


she is bred to another saanen he is also kind of related to her both bucks that she could possibly be bred to not extremely closely but related enough to trace I'm not all that worried about that though


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Old Post Farm said:


> she is bred to another saanen he is also kind of related to her both bucks that she could possibly be bred to not extremely closely but related enough to trace I'm not all that worried about that though


I was wondering because if the buck was a mini breed then (if she was bred) it would probably be easier on her kidding-wise.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i wouldn't be as worried if it was a mini


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Any results on the blood test?

Several years ago I bought a bred Nigerian doe. She did not kid during her due date range so I brought her to the "goat vet" who did an ultra sound.

He said that she was pregnant with twins and that she would be kidding within the next month.

Ok, cool. So we went home and we waited. And waited, and waited. I called the woman I bought her from, who was also her original breeder. She had been sold but returned 2 years later when the new owner had to sell her herd. She had been returned after running with a herd including a buck, so the person I got her from figured she had been bred before she got her back. The seller called the previous owner. Come to find out she had been spayed after a bad pregnancy and couldn't possibly be bred! Not sure what the vet was looking at, but it sure wasn't twins!


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

no results until Tuesday
that is terrible that she was spayed. so moral of the story the vet aren't always right, I'm assuming?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep. They always think they are though


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

lol true


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

so just one question is straining like a goat has to pee but nothing coming out a sign of labor. and excessive stretching ( i mean like every 10-20 minutes) and her sides look more sunken in. Fiona you just better not be pregnant


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

she did have a bit of a strand of mucous this morning


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I see that sometimes when the doe is in late pregnancy and the kids are taking up too much room.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

more excessive stretching and ligs on one side have disappeared, not much more mucous, looking a little more swollen in the pooch area, a little bit of fluttering and one what i think was a big kick from a baby ( nothing was going on that could have surprised her and she kind of jumped and I saw her side moving so that is what i am assuming happened), and i will find out the blood test results tomorrow


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

Is it too late to lute her? Probably at this point...


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'm thinking she's pregnant


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Lute?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Old Post Farm said:


> Lute?


It's a drug that will abort the pregnancy.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I would definitely not abort at 3-4 months... but I have trouble luting at 10 days.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Goat_Scout said:


> I would definitely not abort at 3-4 months... but I have trouble luting at 10 days.


Yeah, I wouldn't either. Late term abortions are almost as hard on them as kidding. Maybe harder, because they don't get some live kids out of the deal.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok please cross your fingers that the results for the blood test are negative. they come in today


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Fingers are crossed for a negative, but from your descriptions she certainly sounds bred


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Praying negative.

I would get back the results first before deciding.

Lute should be directed by your vet and should be decided by them, late term.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Maybe she has mucous because she's in heat.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I would not lute this far into pregnancy if she was though. Better to let her properly dilate and help or do C-Section when the time comes.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

she has had mucous for a while now (longer than her heats usually last) also when she is in heat she has never had mucous.
no word from the vet so far they are open until 8:00, should I call the vet's office to see if they just forgot to call? or should I just wait


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I would call soon, it seems like they should have gotten the results by now.


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

Do you have a picture of the mucus? What does it look like?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

she usually only has it in the morning I will try to get a picture. it is whitish to clear depending on the day but has consistently had mucous for about a week and a half.



Goat_Scout said:


> I would call soon


should i call tonight?? or early in the morning?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'd call tonight. Can't hurt.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

still no ligs on one side but still has ligs on the other


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That is interesting. I don't think I've seen that before.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Has she been exposed to a buck since the original concern?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

felt her mom and found both but then checked Fiona and only found one I had tried multiple times over the past week and at first was finding both so i don't think it is me but that is always a possibility


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

no we don't want her to be pregnant so we didn't try to breed her (plus there are no small bucks at the farm we like to breed from)


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

You can call her tonight or tomorrow. It doesn't really matter.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

and she did cycle at least one with the buck and then we didn't see her go back into heat so we think he got her


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok i think i will call tonight (we'll see) :haha:


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

So Sanaan doe was 16-20 weeks old, exposed to a 10 week old buckling.

Noticed heat around the end of July:beginning of August.

She would be due in about three weeks.

Usually you start to see some udder development around 5-6 weeks prior to birth. She would have something by now.

I know you say you know her heats, but how many heats has she had? 2?

I think the things you are seeing are just her developing a more adult vulva and mammary tissue prep.

How long have you seen mucous? She could have it for 48 hours then residual and then even have a 5 day heat.

I can't imagine how anyone could miss a goat fetus at 4+ months pregnant.

I could be very wrong but I think it's very unlikely she is bred.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

nicolemackenzie said:


> So Sanaan doe was 16-20 weeks old, exposed to a 10 week old buckling.


she was with him since he was like five days old and by the time he left he was trying to mount everything, people included



nicolemackenzie said:


> Noticed heat around the end of July:beginning of August.


first heat was in beginning of June


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

nicolemackenzie said:


> Usually you start to see some udder development around 5-6 weeks prior to birth. She would have something by now.


she could have been bred as late as September 10th and would be due in end of January beginning of February. and her mom showed no signs of pregnancy until the day she kidded. (and from my experiences, at least with the herd I have been with these things seem to be genetic (somewhat))



nicolemackenzie said:


> I know you say you know her heats, but how many heats has she had? 2?


3. First in June second in July third in August



nicolemackenzie said:


> How long have you seen mucous? She could have it for 48 hours then residual and then even have a 5 day heat.


ok i know this may seem weird but she never has mucous during her heats and neither does her mother her sign of heat is just acting VERY interested in other animals some times trying to mount them she can also get very jumpy which she hasn't been at all.
she has had it for a week and a half-ish now



nicolemackenzie said:


> I could be very wrong but I think it's very unlikely she is bred.


I hope you are right

i hope I answered any questions you may have had.
thank you for all the help every one

still no results from the vet I called this morning


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How old was the little buckling she was with all that time, when he was pulled from her?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

he was 10 weeks or three months I am not positive


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

There is a possibility of him doing the deed around 3 months old. Did you see his you know what coming out, as he mounted the others or was it not out at all? I have bucklings who mount, but it is all practice and he isn't bringing it out yet. Did you see it ever?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

yes i did see it 
ohlala:this was him for the three does he was with one his sister, one his aunt and one was Fiona. his sister and aunt both never went into heat while he was there (at least that anyone saw) his aunt and sister were both about the same age as the buck (days apart with his aunt)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

still no ligs on one side


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

has anyone had this happen with their goats
and how likely is it that a first freshener to has a doe


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You are waiting on blood test results, aren't you? I would just wait for those results. When it comes to any livestock, anything goes. They don't read the manual. So we can get many surprises.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

yes waiting on blood test results they were supposed to be in yesterday and we didn't get a call today we called and the result hadn't come in yet I think if we don't get a call by 4 or 5:00 tomorrow we will call again


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

Old Post Farm said:


> they have been puffy for about two and a half weeks now so I'm pretty positive she is not in heat


Hi there. I just had a 7 month old doe give birth 4 days ago. She was fat but had no utter i would say because she is so young. I had the vet out after her mom gave birth to tripletts and had her check my 7 month old doe. She said she prolly jas a couple more weeks before birthing because she hasnt developed her utter yet. Needless to say she gave birth to a beautidul baby girl only 4 days later. I am bottle feeding because she has no milk!! So just watch her and listen. She might not develop an utter as she is very young still. No i did not breed her on purpose when i purchased them i had a family of 3 mom dad and baby and dad was tagging them as soon as i brought them home! It was an accident lol but it happens.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Viki The vet has a hormone called lutalyse that should be given in those circumstances. I'm uncomfortable about how casual the last sentence is about goat care. I know that you would be more careful in the future, but that sentence indicates to newbies that they don't have to prevent this, or correct it with lute, because "it happens."

Please make certain that young mother has excellent nutrition, because that pregnancy took a lot out of her development.


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

mariarose said:


> @Viki The vet has a hormone called lutalyse that should be given in those circumstances. I'm uncomfortable about how casual the last sentence is about goat care. I know that you would be more careful in the future, but that sentence indicates to newbies that they don't have to prevent this, or correct it with lute, because "it happens."
> 
> Please make certain that young mother has excellent nutrition, because that pregnancy took a lot out of her development.


Im sorry i didnt mean for it to sound casual as it is not. Like i said it was an accident as i had just bought the 3 at the end of june and brought them home. I was told and read that they couldnt get pregnant until about 5 months old and she was just a month old so i did not seperate them as my plan was to have dad castrated. Which he is now. I did have the vet come out after she gave birth and at that time she had some milk and was feeding on her own. The next day i went to check on her and there was no milk coming so i am bottle feeding to keep her healthy. I have upped mamas grain ( both mamas) and give them alfalfa and regular hay. They are all doing great. I was just saying that she did not develop an utter at all and im assuming its because she is so young. I did however have to help delivering as she had a little hard time delivering but she is doing great the vet says.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Viki as I said, I know that you know better now. I'm glad this did not end worse than it did. The last sentence of your post did sound casual and I did not want newbies to think that breeding doelings at 2 months was not optimal, but....hey, it happens. If they breed doeling, they need to lute them, not hope for the best, because Viki got the best, and it was....all right.

It was the last sentence of your post, "It was an accident lol but it happens." that I thought could have been worded differently, less casually, more, "I wish I had asked my vet for lute so that the life of my doeling would not have been endangered, please don't take my "meh" ending as a desired result, Now I may have to baby this doe for years because she should actually have died."

I KNOW you now know better. I said so in my post. BUT!!! You just did not say so and instead indicated that the rest of all breeding oopses are no biggie.


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

I had a doe get pregnant at a month old she just gave birth at 7 months old and did not have an utter


Old Post Farm said:


> has anyone had this happen with their goats
> and how likely is it that a first freshener to has a doe





mariarose said:


> @Viki as I said, I know that you know better now. I'm glad this did not end worse than it did. The last sentence of your post did sound casual and I did not want newbies to think that breeding doelings at 2 months was not optimal, but....hey, it happens. If they breed doeling, they need to lute them, not hope for the best, because Viki got the best, and it was....all right.
> 
> It was the last sentence of your post, "It was an accident lol but it happens." that I thought could have been worded differently, less casually, more, "I wish I had asked my vet for lute so that the life of my doeling would not have been endangered, please don't take my "meh" ending as a desired result, Now I may have to baby this doe for years because she should actually have died."
> 
> I KNOW you now know better. I said so in my post. BUT!!! You just did not say so and instead indicated that the rest of all breeding oopses are no biggie.


Sorry but when my vet told me she was indeed pregnant she barely mentioned lutting and didnt seem to worried. Like i said these are my first goats and i did do lots of research before i got them. Like i said i was told they couldnt get pregnant until 5 months which i now know was not true. I assumed that if the vet thought it be a good idea to get her lutted that i def would have listened to the vet. I myself am a newbie at this so i figured the vet knew what was best. I know its not ideal for a baby to have a baby but i was lucky i guess and both are healthy. So should i have listened to people on here or should i listen to my vet?


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

Old Post Farm said:


> has anyone had this happen with their goats
> and how likely is it that a first freshener to has a doe


It is def a possibility shes pregnant and just isnt old enough to develop an utter. Like i said i just had a 7 month old give birth 4 days ago and still doesnt have an utter.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Viki said:


> So should i have listened to people on here or should i listen to my vet?


Viki, In answer to your question - If I am unsure on what to do with a sick goat, I usually ask on here and then go to my vet (or vise versa). The people on here - in most cases - are more likely to know how I should best take care of my goat because they have goats, and (most of them) have for a long time. Many things you can't truly learn until you experience them, and most of the vets in my area don't even own goats, so I usually don't consult them about that kind of stuff.  Your vet may be more knowledgeable with goats though.
We can't always properly judge situations since we don't know your goat - only you do.

Good luck with your little goaties.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A little harsh there. 

You did nothing wrong Viki.
You are new to the goat world and didn't know.
Usually it doesn't happen at 1 month old, that is just weird to me, but she must be a very fertile one.

Some of us pro's, if we see bucks breeding young does, when a buck escapes into the doeling pen, we do ask our vet for lute early on, that is something in the future you can ask for, if there is a booboo and we want to stop the pregnancy. Some have had a huge breed buck, get to a small breed youngster doeling, which is just asking for trouble if it went full term, so lute will help resolve the issue early on. The option is there.

I too never believed any doeling could get preggo under 5 months old. That is in the boer world, but there was indeed a case here on boers who was 2-3 months old. Shocked I was, I will tell you.
So don't feel you are a bad person for not using lute, you just never thought it would happen and didn't know.

I am so glad you were there for her when kidding and all was taken care of for her. I am sorry she has no milk though, that is part of being way too young, her body herself itself, isn't fully developed. Allowing her kid(s) to nurse from her, will help stimulate her milk to produce. Plus you can supplement feed her kid(s) as well to ensure the kid(s) gets enough. Sounds like you are doing a great job, with a good feeding program for her. Make sue she gets plenty of fluids. 

We at TGS know more than a lot of vets. But on some issues we refer someone to a vet if we are unsure or for the safety of a goat. Not all vets care about or want to deal with goats. A good goat vet is so hard to find. 

So come here and tell us what is happening with your goat or if a vet already seen the goat, tell us what the vet recommend and what was given or done and we will say if that is good or bad and if you should indeed listen to your vet or add or even try something different, if we feel the vet is so wrong.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Fiona is officially 9 months old today and she is still acting/looking pregnant


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thank you for the advice every one.


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

Ty for understanding. Some people are pretty harsh but i guess i could be too at times when it comes to animals. I am an animal lover! Also one more question, while bottle feeding should i be getting up through the night with the little one? I have been since she was born and let me tell ya its exhausting but i want her to be healthy.


toth boer goats said:


> A little harsh there.
> 
> You did nothing wrong Viki.
> You are new to the goat world and didn't know.
> ...


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Sorry if I missed this, but how old is the kid? I did night feedings for my little ones until they were 2 weeks old.


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but how old is the kid? I did night feedings for my little ones until they were 2 weeks old.


She is only 4 days old. She is getting some milk from mama but not enough.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

If she is getting some from mom then I probably wouldn't keep doing night feedings.


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## Viki (Oct 29, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> If she is getting some from mom then I probably wouldn't keep doing night feedings.


Thats awesome news lol im exhausted. She doesnt seem to eat much during the night and i feel like im waking her up just to feed her.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I have heard that pregnant does will try to get higher up on their social status when closer to kidding so their kids have a higher status is this true? if so, if a doe who usually doesn't start the fights or sick up for herself when she doesn't start a fight could doing those thing be a sign of pregnancy?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

My does have never done that.

Edit - Ok, after thinking it over again I had one doe that did. Fighting wouldn't be a definite sign of pregnancy though. They fight for various reasons.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok thanks i was just wondering because she NEVER starts the fights until a month or two ago


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Some of mine will mount each other or fight when they are in season....


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

that is good to know thank you


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Any news from the vet?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

nope today or Monday is what they said yesterday
Talk about the hurry up and wait game


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

here are some new pics of Fiona's belly and behind and how her ligaments on one side are softened and how she has the tiniest of tiny udders forming (her hair grew around her udder so it doesn't look any bigger)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)




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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

This past spring my Saanen doe (then 10 months old) started developing an udder and her belly began looking quite round. We were sure that she had accidentally been bred at her previous owner's place. And I could have sworn I'd felt a kid!
A couple months later she was looking slim again (like in the first picture you posted today) and turns out she was never pregnant. :/ She just had a precocious udder, which is not too uncommon in Saanens seeing that they are a heavy milking breed.

Your girl still doesn't look bred to me. Hopefully the results will come in soon!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Waiting on the vet must be torture.


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

In my opinion I would see about separating her from the others to prevent any bad blows to her side. Right now I would treat her like she is pregnant, even if she isn't there is no reason you can't treat her like she is just to be careful. How much is she eating?


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

And for future reference to anyone who is reading. If you see your buck get in with a doe who should not be pregnant or pregnant to said buck. Lute her, there is no need to create a catastrophe out of something that can be easily taken care of.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

I totally agree with you


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok i will separate her tomorrow just not tonight cuz my dad is not home and we will have to do some remodeling of the barn
I have a picture of the goop now (I just usually don't have the camera with me) but it was taken on a phone and will take a few minutes to load to the computer so pictures will be loaded later tonight hopefully.


toth boer goats said:


> Waiting on the vet must be torture.


yeah and really annoying because the results were supposed to be in by now grr


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Sorry if I missed something, but who butting/bullying her so that you want to separate?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

her mom


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

the same thing happened with her mom when she was pregnant and she was not treated well or loved where she was not to bad talk anyone cuz she is a rascal. i think she is just (getting back) at the other goats even tho she's not with them any more. I am talking about Fancy Fiona's mom


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Oh, okay. How long has this been going on? 

If you are going to separate them, make sure they can see each other and touch noses if possible.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

yeah we have chain link kind of panels and since those are huge we might use wood


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

for two months


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

goatygirl8 said:


> And for future reference to anyone who is reading. If you see your buck get in with a doe who should not be pregnant or pregnant to said buck. Lute her, there is no need to create a catastrophe out of something that can be easily taken care of.


I know I'm late to the party and responding to "not the main theme" of this thread, but I couldn't agree more with @goatygirl8 and others! Last year I had an 8-month old myotonic doe jump the fence into a nubian buck...on the day before thanksgiving. *Not good*. Unfortunately, then I got really, really ill...and by the time I could hold my head up again (about New Year's), my vet did not want to lute. "You've just got to manage this very carefully," he told me. I did manage it very very carefully. Even so, we had to pull her twins out with the tractor (not really -- but they were terribly hard to pull out as they were so much bigger than she could realistically handle!), and though the first was born alive, he didn't survive. She rejected the 2nd, and he had to be tube fed for the first 3 days until he learned to suck. Mama rebounded quickly (thankfully), and the surviving baby ended up doing very well also. When you consider that by all rights I probably should have lost all three, I was very grateful for the outcome. But, Wow -- did I learn from this! Oops breeding? DON'T WAIT!!! LUTE as quickly as possible.

@Old Post Farm -- you're doing a good job. You're asking questions. You're getting good advice from lots of caring and extremely competent goat folk on this site. I hope Fiona is not pregnant...but if she is, you're in a good place!


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thanks top_goat


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

here is the mucous















please keep in mind that when in heat this goat never has mucous when she is in heat


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

here is a cute picture just for fun


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

could the mucous pictures be the mucous plug???


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes it could.


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

Have you tried taking a warm cloth and seeing what you can get out?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

we got the results!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Is she bred or not bred?


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

And????? She's not pregnant!?!?!?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

she's NOT pregnant


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## goatygirl8 (Nov 26, 2017)

Good


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

That's great!!!!!


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

:cooldude::run::run::run: whohoooo happy dance


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Lol! The waiting is over!


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Good to hear


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That is great!


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

woooo whooo thank you all for the advice and support


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

The suspense,














the drama,







the torture












































Good to hear.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

What Pam said... Whew! (wipe brow) 

So glad she's not bred! Woo-hoo!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


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