# Gingers waiting room due Jan 11th or ??



## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

We are finally close to Gingers due date. She was bred August 13th, 14th and then came into a 5 day heat Aug 19th. That makes her 145 days on Jan 11th. However she ran with the buck until the end of September.

Ginger is an FF and has a tiny udder started. I'm only expecting a single because she isn't very big at all.

Does she look like she will kid in 8-10 days? Or like she took on her next cycle and I missed it? She looked bigger in her stomach until 2 days ago. Now she doesn't look big at all. Now sure if it's that she dropped or what.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

I would guess just from pics she still has some time, but if she is gonna fill last minute and she is dropping then *shrug* they can surprise you. My guess though is either 3 weeks...


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

It's hard to tell in the pictures because she would not stand still but her udder is about the size of a grapefruit now. She was much more round and now has a hollow in front of her hips.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

This was exactly a month ago when she a lot bigger.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good luck!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Good luck


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I have a Mini-Lamancha FF due on the 11th of this month and she looks very similar in the back end area, but her udder is bigger. It is entirely possible that your girl is one of those does whose udder fills in at the last minute. I'd be on baby watch just in case.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

Looks like waiting for babies, it does look like she dropped and kid(s?) Have changed positions


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Thanks I'm definitely going to be watching and ready. I'm pretty sure she has a single.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

In the 3rd picture it looks like her tail head is pretty loose and ligs gone, this is a process but to me she looks pretty close just on the tail, but then they can be that way awhile, keep your eyes on her, she could fill her udder in no time and be pushing kids! Good Luck!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Happy kidding.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Nothing new today. She has a great appetite. I moved her yesterday by herself and closer to the house where I can see her good and can run a heat lamp. She actually looks a little bigger today so think the other doe wasn't letting her eat enough. The other doe should be due from now to end of February also but hasn't started an udder at all. Which last year as a ff she didn't bag until she had her doeling so no guarantees with her either lol.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you have a photo of the buck she was bred to?

Sending healthy twin thoughts your way!


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

This is s'mores. This is first and her first time breeding.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

This is my other doe (Chocolate chip ) and her buck Oreo.

It was really cold this day and they were all hunched up and waiting on their hay.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

So handsome!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Neat! And when is Chocolate Chip due?


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> Neat! And when is Chocolate Chip due?


She was put in with oreo the same dates as Ginger so from Aug 13th to Sept 30th. But she was being dried off as I had been milking her and her 7 month old had been nursing still. And I never saw her breed like I did Ginger. She doesn't have a bag so thinking she still has 3 weeks or more to go. But last year as an ff she didn't bag until she kidded


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All nice.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Very nice


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Still no growth in her udder. I haven't been able to find ligs yesterday or today. I can wrap my fingers around her entire tail head.

She was head pressing my belly for a few mins. Lol if I touch her belly or udder she hunches but not seeing any contractions or anything.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

This one shows her tail is bent and shows her bag better


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Changes for sure.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Here she is today. Her tail is bent over a lot today but no change in her bag. I really don't know if I should check her overnight or wait to start really checking her. Tomorrow is her due date


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Wow, she really has changed! Hopefully kids tomorrow!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I usually start checking my does 1 week prior to kidding.  

She looks close.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I have been checking her during the day but I work graveyards so I'm not home at except my nights off, which was last night and tonight. So I went out to check her at 12am and 3 am and my husband checked at 6am then I got up at 8am. Nothing. She is running around eating and tried to follow me back to the house. 

I really hope its tonight. I think I am going to move her onto my enclosed porch. I have a huge wire kennel with straw and a big quilt for my dogs. But they are only on the porch during the day. At night they are inside. It will be easier to check her there then walking out back and going through the carport to check her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good luck.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Nothing new unless you count my normally loveable doe that now walks away when I try to touch her. And usually she follows me everywhere but just standing staring into space chewing her cud. I am not seeing any mucous or signs of contractions and she is quiet.

She is on the porch for the night for easier checks.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow a picture can be deceiving, but she looks close by the pic - the way she's holding her tail and the way her ligaments appear (or could just be me?). 
Hopefully she releases the hostages soon!


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I haven't been able to feel ligaments for 3 days. I'm really hoping that her temperament change is due to impending labor. I normally have to push her away and now she wants to be left alone. Her udder hasn't changed much that I can tell. It's definitely not full but I don't trust it because she is an ff and last yr my ff Nigerian had even less of an udder when she kidded.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Soon.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Still holding the hostage(s). Her ligs even reappeared today. Ugh


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Still nothing. I was sure she would surprise me by going last night while I was at work. If she hasn't had kid(s) by Tuesday or Wednesday then I am going to assume she cycled again and won't have them for 3 weeks or so. Ugh she was with the buck for about 6 to 7weeks after I saw her breed but I really doubt she can hold out that long. Her ligs were missing again this morning. Lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh wow, doe code of honor.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Apparently I am watching the wrong doe. Chocolate had twins last night. 1 buck (black) and 1 doe (brown). Problem is chocolate had no bag at all. She has just nipples and all I could get was a drop or two from each one! They are cold and weak. So I brought them both in and I'm going to give colostrum and selenium. The boy can't stand unless I stand him up first. The girl is stronger and more active.


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## Korita (Jan 11, 2018)

Summersun said:


> Apparently I am watching the wrong doe. Chocolate had twins last night. 1 buck (black) and 1 doe (brown). Problem is chocolate had no bag at all. She has just nipples and all I could get was a drop or two from each one! They are cold and weak. So I brought them both in and I'm going to give colostrum and selenium. The boy can't stand unless I stand him up first. The girl is stronger and more active.
> 
> View attachment 126284
> View attachment 126285
> ...


Congratulations on the littles! So so cute. I hope they make it and get strong. This makes me nervous because I have 2 FF that are starting to hollow out but no bags at all. I hope my other girl goes first so I can get colostrum from her just in case. Good luck with your little babes


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Chocolate is a 2nd fresher. Her first baby was also born with almost no udder. She had a tiny little one the night before, the next morning she had kidded and her udder had doubled but was still small. By 2 weeks post kidding she had a good sized udder that I got 1 1/2 cups from after a 12 hr fill. She also only had a single and she was already nursing well when I got home from work.

This time she has nothing at all. So I'm hoping she fills and can be reunited with them. The girl I think had nursed as she was stronger than the boy and had a partial belly. He just ate 2 ounces and she ate 1. Didn't want to over fill them. He is much stronger since he has warmed up. They both weigh 2 lbs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Congratulations, they are so cute!


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

They both ate at 11am and 3pm. Now I took them back to mom. The girl is following mom and nursing. The boy just stands there crying but did nurse mom when I tied her up and showed him. Her bag is now half built but still really soft and flaccid so it's hard for them to find nipples. She cleaned both of them so she isn't rejecting them. I plan to bottle feed at 7:45 before I leave for work. Then all I can do is pray they nurse her through the night and don't get too cold.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww they are precious, I hope and pray everything goes well with them! How odd that mama doesn't have an udder. Have you done a fecal to rule out parasites? What kind of diet does she have? Otherwise, I wonder if it's genetics or just her.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I think it's just here. She gets pure alfalfa and loose minerals. Last year she did the similar. She had no udder the afternoon before and when I found her baby at 8 am she had a small udder that got bigger over 2-3 days..this time she had no udder last night or this morning when I found the babies. By this afternoon she has a small udder. So I really think it's genetic/how she is. I went to bottle feed and the doeling wouldn't take any. The boy took almost an ounce but I had to really work to get him to drink any. They were all together so maybe he had nursed also.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

They are adorable  Hoping they'll be ok while you're gone.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

The boy didn't make it. The girl is back inside on the bottle. She was cold when my husband checked them at 5am so he brought her in front of a heater and I fed her when I got home at 8. I don't know what to do tonight unless I keep her in but she would get fed at 7pm, 10pm and 5am. So that is 7 hrs without food. My husband can't get up every 3 hrs and I have to go to work.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Are there any goat owners nearby you would trust to take her? Sorry you lost the buckling


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry for the loss. 

You are going to have to figure out a way to feed the doeling or the same will happen to her as it did the buckling. 
She needs the milk in her belly to stay warm. 

Do you have a heat lamp that you can setup? That will keep her from going sub temp, if she doesn't get enough.
But 7 hours is quite long, for a baby that young.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

The doeling was following the dam and nursing though. The buckling wasn't.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

She still was cold and hungry by morning. So worried about leaving her another night. I'm trying to figure out how to put them with Ginger because that's the only place I can put a heat lamp. But ginger just had twin boys.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Awww, congratulations!


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

The one is super tiny and I'm worried about him. I brought them in to dry and warm up. This is the coldest winter I've ever seen here. So next year I will have to breed later.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Do you have a garage you can setup a small area and hook up a heat lamp? 
Put some pallets together for a make shift pen.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

No I don't. They are in the carport that is covered on 3 sides with a heat lamp. But it's bitter cold with wind. Last week we were in the 70s now back down in the 30s ugh. 

I brought them in for about 15 mins and got them dry. But they didn't do well once back outside so brought them back in. They are currently laying in front of the heater. They seem weak. It's been at least an hour since birth and neither can stand yet. The biggest can if I stand him up but sinks back down after a minute or so. The smaller can't hold himself up at all and wants to keep his head turned back


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Have they nursed ok? What are their temps?


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

No they havent. I resorted to feeding them colostrum supplement. I tried to milk ginger but she is a ff and that didn't go very well. I tried milking chocolate and only got 1 ounce but her baby girl has been nursing her for a few hours. They are with mom now but haven't found the nipple


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

It started snowing so they came back inside where it's warm. Their Temps have been fluctuating. They were in the 90s then 100-100.5, then I took them out, then had to bring in and warm them again. When I brought them in this time they still had good temps but I won't take any chances. My husband will feed them at 9:30pm and again at midnight then at 4:30 am. That's the best we can do. I'm off the next 3 nights after tonight so I will get up those nights every 3 hrs . I'm going to keep trying to get them to nurse mom's during the days.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Have your does had any selenium supplementation? The photos of the first set of twins show very weak pasterns and knees bending over. Those symptoms combined with the fact that the kids are not fast to stand and nurse and the low milk production and the fact that the doeling was stronger than the buckling all all point to selenium deficiency.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I gave selenium gel about 3-4 weeks ago and they have loose minerals but they don't seem to eat the minerals. I'm thinking they need more selenium but have to order it as tractor supply was out. I tried to get ahold of my vet for bose yesterday but she is out of town and I would have to go over an hr to the next one.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Here's were I get my gel
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/selenium-vitamin-e-gel-for-goats


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

All 3 babies did well through the night for my husband. This morning they are hungry. 

I took them out to their moms to nurse some. The ND doeling does good. She ran from one mom to the other and knows right where the milk is. I got the big boy on his mom fairly easy. He lost it a few times but was able to find it again. The little boy I am worried about. He would lift his head and smack his lips but would not head butt or look around or even walk around much. I got her nipple in his mouth a couple of times but when I would try to squeeze some out she would herm away. So he got as almost an ounce of colostrum supplement when we got back inside. 

I left the doeling and big buck out with the moms. Will bring them inside in an hour or two. It's 23 degrees right now but they can go in a dog house out of the wind. 

When I bottle feed they seem to be eating too much. The doeling is 2 lbs so I calculated at 12% is 3.84 ounces a day. But she eats 1-2 ounces 4-5 times a day plus nursing mom some. The big boy is 2 1/2 lbs and he also can eat 1-1 1/2 ounces at a time. Little guy is 1.7 lbs and can eat an ounce at a time. So even little guy is eating more than 4 ounces a day. But I only feed them until belly is level to slightly round.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Most recommendations are closer to 15-20% body weight per day so I think you are doing swell. 12% is too little based on my experience. You have the right idea, watch the bellies and their behavior more importantly than the calculation. Flat firm bellies! Or just barely rounded like you said 

Keep up the hard work. If you can't get selenium for them right away - go to a human pharmacy and get Vitamin E help caps - snip and squirt one in each kid's mouth. This helps them absorb available selenium in their body and in their food. You can also give B-Complex injection to the little guy to try to get him more aggresive at the teat.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I gave b complex yesterday but definitely will give more today


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

As long a the b-complex is fortified you can give it every day.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

There is something really wrong with the little boy. He won't lay down at all. Just stands with his head tilted back looking straight up at the sky. He eats well when I feed him but won't lay to rest or relax his head. A newborn can't have polio? Poor baby. His mom did knock him over a few times but he didn't seem hurt at the time(yesterday)


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Yes that's polio. Give him b-complex FAST and a lot of it Also give him 1/2cc of pro pen g (penicillin)


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

OK he got b complex orally since he is barely going on 24 hrs and pen g IM. Poor guy hated the b complex. I'm really surprised a newborn can have polio


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

How much? With polio you likely need to give it IV it will give almost instant relief. Is he having involuntary
movements of his head,neck and legs?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Summersun said:


> I gave selenium gel about 3-4 weeks ago and they have loose minerals but they don't seem to eat the minerals. I'm thinking they need more selenium but have to order it as tractor supply was out. I tried to get ahold of my vet for bose yesterday but she is out of town and I would have to go over an hr to the next one.


Try mixing some kelp into the minerals.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm exhausted! Last night went ok. I've pretty much have a pattern down with the babies. 

The girl nursed the bottle very well, sucks down an ounce very quickly then will take more after a few mins. 

The big boy gives me the most trouble eating. One time he will suck the bottle quickly. The next feeding he will play with it and keep spitting the nipple out until I squeeze it. Even then he spits the milk out sometimes but eventually he will drink an ounce or so. 

Little boy is my special needs boy. He will only lay down for a few seconds here and there, the majority of the time he is standing and crying out pitifully. He is getting penicillin and b complex every 12 hrs. He isn't staring straight up at the sky all the time anymore but still does it often. He however nurses very well, sucking down almost an ounce. His belly isn't going down much between feeding and I saw him poop yesterday, so no constipation. I honestly think he is eating too much but he is constantly acting hungry the entire time between feedings.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Ugh I'm loosing tiny Tim. I think he has floppy kid syndrome. That may be what his problem was all along. I fed him and gave him meds at 8:30 am. By 9:30 he couldn't stand anymore and was flat on his side. At 12 I fed him electrolytes only and he sat up some. By 3 he couldn't drink the electrolytes. I syringed him some but he is just getting worse.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Floppy kid is possible.

What was his temp? If sub, they can act like that too. Never feed while under 100 degree's.

Overfeeding can also do harm.

He was too young for polio.

Hope he is OK?


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I lost him last night. He perked up after the 2nd syringe feeding of electrolytes. He was even able to stand again and suckled his electrolytes 3 hrs later. After he nursed that time I gave him his penicillin and b complex. Within 20 mins he had collapsed again. And never recovered. All treatment I found for floppy kid says electrolytes, baking soda, penicillin and b complex. But it seemed like the penicillin and b complex hurt him. I had just given it when he went floppy that morning also. I was only giving 1/2 cc penicillin and 1/2 cc of b complex. They are both fairly new bottles, purchased a couple of weeks ago for a horse with mastitis.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Oh and I never fed him sub temp. He went sub temp while floppy but I got his temp up before I fed him his electrolytes


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I am so sorry you lost him


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

His brother is going really good. Nursing mom well and she has accepted him well, which is good since it's her first time and I had to take him away at first. I'm still taking him at night since it gets bitter cold. 

The doelings mom is not doing so well. Her first I didn't have to help or interfere at all. This time I have to take her so now she is rejecting her. I have to tie her up and pin her to fence every 3 hrs or so for the doeling to nurse. I also take her in at night still. 

Luckily I have milk from 2017 when I was milking the doelings mom, because I can't seem to get more than 3-4 ounces out of her and ginger is a ff and isn't taking me milking her at all yet. I will get some and she will dump it jumping around. I may end up having to hobble her or something.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry. 
Floppy kid
2 cc's baking soda add water to it and give it.
2 cc's thiamine or fortified vit B complex
2 cc's penG
1 x a day
All orally
These wouldn't cause his death.
If under dosing, that may of been a factor.

Some pull through it, while others do not.

Glad the other kid is doing well.

Rejecting mom, make sure she isn't too tight, has mastitis, congested udder, or the kid has really sharp teeth.
If you feel sharpness, get a very fine file and file away the sharpness only.

Are you having the kid alternate back and forth to each side?

Work with the first timer, she needs to be taught and allowing her kid(s) to nurse is crucial, to help milk let done and also feeding her correctly.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

The rejecting mom (Chocolate) actually has very little udder. Definitely not tight or congested. But good news is she is finally accepting her baby girl. We have been tying her about 4 times a day and letting the baby nurse. Then I would give the baby a bottle because she was still hungry, belly would be sunk in. Yesterday my husband decided to leave mom tied for 6 hrs with food and water in front of her so she was kinda penned in. Apparently she didn't like that because she has started letting her nurse on her own now lol. She finally had a full belly this morning, so hopefully mom will start producing more milk. Is it too late to give her something to help her make more milk?

Ginger has accepted her Lil boy just fine. He is fat and sassy and her bag is good sized.

The boy was trying to play with my horse through the fence lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad all is going well. 

So cute. 

Feed her Alfalfa and a good grain along with calfmanna it helps. Start her out slowly, then increase, as time goes by.

Make sure she gets enough to drink as well.

Her kid being on her helps, make sure, if it is only 1 kid to go back and forth on each side of the udder.


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