# Stressed and impatient.



## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas! My doe is a second timer and was bred back to my buck earlier than wanted. Anyway, she is in some rough shape tonight. I have pictures of her attached. She's got all the signs of labor, she's uncomfortable, has had every color under the sun on discharge (including a new clear almost water like kind) and has dropped her babies tremendously in the last 72 hours (if she drops anymore I'm worried her stomach will touch the ground.) She had twins last time and I'm expecting twins to triples this time. I checked her about an hour ago and when I lifted her tail I noticed her pooch open a little, but when I went in for a closer look she got up and it closed. I don't know if I'm just being frantic or if I'm being rational. Her grunting and groaning has me worried sick!! Please let me know what you guys think! I will sleep in the barn if I have to!!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Is she sunken in yet on her right side? Udder doesn't look strutted yet.
Moaning & groaning is pretty normal, as is her vulva opening then closing when she stands.
I know she must be driving you nuts.:hair:


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Yes extremely and here is her pooch tonight. I'm just trying to figure out when she will kid. Not having a due date is awful! I will have better breeding plans next season.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

When she presents long (or short) string of amber goo get readier.
Is she digging to China yet?


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

She has been digging since yesterday lol. Pretty sure she put a hole in the wall. She had brownish mucus earlier but still nothing. Does her pooch make it look like she is due soon?


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

My two-cent bet is that she won't go tonight...but if her udder is big tomorrow, I'd go ahead and spend the night in the barn...there was a couple who spent the night in a barn that night, many years ago, so you'd be in good company....


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I would definitely be keeping an eye on her and checking. She looks like she is getting awful close. That pooch looks pretty darn ready to me.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

I thought so too! She's showing more than she did last kidding. I can almost hear her saying "Okay I'm ready.... JUST KIDDING"


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Kaitlin said:


> I thought so too! She's showing more than she did last kidding. I can almost hear her saying "Okay I'm ready.... JUST KIDDING"


hahaha Yep...the doe code at it's finest!


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

I know she looks awful but here is her back side. She's constantly up and down. Her tail is soaking wet with God knows what. And her bag is beginning to tighten a little. Ligs are gone but have been all day. I'll just sit over here and pull my hair out!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

The up and down with pawing would make me think she's getting close, more so than the other signs.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I've only had three does kid but when their pooches' we're open like that, they had kids on the ground within 24 hours. Her udder doesn't look like kidding is imminent but she may be one that won't bag up completely until she kids. If she was mine I'd be checking on her every 2 hours tonight.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Still nothing this morning. Looks the exact same as last night.. Bag still isn't tight burgher but from my notes last year she didn't bag up completely til after she kissed. I am so stressed. But holiday babies get holiday names!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you ever go in and check her cervix to see if it is dilated? If a kid is not in proper position, they won't come out without help.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Gloves and petroleum jelly?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Gloves and OB lube. Not petroleum jelly.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

KY jelly would be ok too.....that might be the same thing as OB lube....


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

We use the KY Jelly here... And I don't use gloves as I find it harder to feel.. I just wash up well first.. (I keep hot soapy water out with me when I have does in labor)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, go in with 2 fingers and see if she is open.

When a Doe gets closer to kidding and lays down, her vulva gets sloppy like that and may open, some prolapse, either can happen the last month or so prior to kidding. That is normal.

Her udder is filling but should get real tight looking and may have a shinny appearance at the bottom. Some though do wait until after they kid to really tighten.

She looks to be up on her sides still, but when you look at her from behind and all of a sudden her sides are dropped and she looks less preggo, the kids are making their way to the birth canal.

Pawing is nesting, getting up and down is worrisome. I would go in and check in case.

Her tailhead will be really dropped down looking.

Most will have a amber clear tube discharge when it is time. Sometimes we don't see that but something to watch for.

Keep a close eye on her.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I read you should wash the doe's back end before going in, as well. The less dirt/bacteria you introduce, the lower the risk of infection. 

I mix betadine into the lube, as well, a drop per glop of lube, looks like weak tea.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Good idea!


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Okay so I just checked her. I can only stick one finger in without her trying to kill me. However, her demeanor has made a 180. She doesn't want me to touch her at all now (last night she had her head in my chest and bleating). I'm trying not to intervene too much but she has me so worried! And now it looks like she's raised the babies again. I went to feel on her side and when I pushed I could feel a head at the very bottom of her side. The pictures do her no justice.. She is HUGE. Like waddling when she tries to walk huge. Am I being overly cautious? Or do you think she may be kidding soon??


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Oh, the doe code...if she's still eating normally etc., I personally wouldn't _worry_, but knowing me, I would be popping out every ten minutes "just in case", lol. I don't know if you had other plans for this evening, like turkey dinner with your extended family, or some crazy thing like that? ;-) If she starts having contractions, that means business. I'm not an expert, but will be online for a couple of hours yet if you need to scream your frustration.


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

Kaitlin said:


> She has been digging since yesterday lol. Pretty sure she put a hole in the wall. She had brownish mucus earlier but still nothing. Does her pooch make it look like she is due soon?


I think she will kid tonight!! Yea,,for babies!! :lovey:


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Luckily nothing else tonight but it just started with some freezing rain (joy). Thank you all for your help!! I will keep you updated. On another note: is feeling the babies that low a good thing? Or should I even be able to feel them?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Is she rubbing on things like walls and fences?

I believe that some goats delay because they can't get the kids in position on time. Just my observation; if a kid comes out 1 leg back or whatever, it's always a mom who looked like "go time" starting a few days before, and she did lots of gyrations like the kids weren't sitting right. Now I give calcium (tums) by default if I see that.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Some yes but not as much as I would expect. Tums?? Would that help her out? I wish I could put a video of her groaning on here. Poor girl hasn't had sleep in days. And also, constantly have feed available? Or should I keep with feeding twice a day? I have alfalfa mix available at all times for her


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I have hay available 24/7, not grain.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Just felt her again and was able to fit two with ease, she didn't even fight me that much.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Someone's sleeping in the barn tonight! Hope she holds out till midnight so you get Christmas babies


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Kaitlin said:


> Just felt her again and was able to fit two with ease, she didn't even fight me that much.


Could you feel a kid?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Hay 24/7 is VERY good. Tums (one or 2 tablets) don't hurt and they give a calcium boost as she builds an udder (and might support muscle health for pushing out kids). Even in pasture season, I keep hay in front of the goats so they have a consistent diet.

Are you saying you got two fingers through her cervix, or through her tailhead?

If you got them through the cervix - she's ready to rock and roll, but the kids might be waiting to make a grand entrance. A grand entrance for kids may involve malpresentation that requires human assistance. 

Congrats on your new babies coming!


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

I guess it was two through her tail head. I feel like such a newbie! Went up this morning around five (from Tennessee) and she was running all along the walls scratching her stomach and head. I went to feel her stomach and I could still feel a kid moving around at almost the very bottom of her stomach. She's carrying them very forward in my opinion. Although looks like she's dropped even more. Udder is beginning to fill in more (thanks to Mother Nature and that tums). Very weird mood this morning. Hoping she will get better soon! Thanks again everyone for your help! I will keep you all updated. MERRY CHRISTMAS!


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## Woody_Glen_Farm (Feb 23, 2014)

Happy kidding and Merry Christmas Kaitlin. I would give your doe some grain now to boost her energy. She will need it for labor and making milk! Not having enough calories in late pregnancy can cause pregnancy toxemia. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Good Christmas morning to you, so glad there were no urgencies in the night. Will keep an eye skinned for updates.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Happy Kidding.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

She makes me so impatient! She had a string of milky white early and her vulva would shrink then go back to normal, is that a contraction? Also, if I can still feel a baby move, she is not in labor. Is that correct??


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

My definition of contraction would be one of those all-consuming squeezes, that she has no voluntary control over. I'll go see if I can find a video for you that can show what words can't tell.  Back in a few!

Here ya go, contractions!


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Here's the pictures from tonight. She looks like she's regressed from yesterday. Again, her udder is on the smaller side but she doesn't usually fill until after she kids. Help me


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

She does look regressed, doesn't she! All I can offer for signs are what I was on hand for with a camera, six months ago. This was Annie at breakfast; she gave birth before lunch that same day. See how she's gappy even while standing; very full udder--never seen it so full, since; hollows in front of the hips, visible in two of the pics; able to "touch" my fingers through the skin of the base of the tail. Probably this is not new to you, just offering these in the spirit of encouragement and reinforcement.... :-D


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Marcie has the dropped kids. It's like a deep triangle and I can almost see the vertebrates in her back and her tail is like a small mountain. Only skin and fur between my fingers when I check her. Needless to say, I'm overly stressed today. :,(


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Okay, I think this is the final lap in the go-around. Don't know how long it will take, but intuition tells me _that this is it_. On hand if ya wanna scream. (Having a relaxed Christmas here, and this is a perfectly good way to spend free time. :-D ) Stepping out for a minute to check my own goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Happy Kidding.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Unless she's super late, or until the kids hit the birth canal - she should be just fine. If the kids aren't ready to come out, they've got a cozy room to hang out in in there.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Well here is her this morning. Rubbing up against the walls and as uncomfortable as ever. I'm going to let her stretch her legs out today and put the other two in here so she can just get out of the stall.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

LOL Waiting is just sooo much fun, isn't it?! We kicked ours back out in the herd and are just watching her again.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

So much for intuition! Gah! Pooch looks ready. Shadow obscures view of sunken sides. Udder fills after the fact, you say. Tail looks like the ligs might be soft, but that's a hands-on thing. C'mon, Marcie! (As if she needed encouragement. I bet nobody will be happier once kidding occurs, than her!)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is called, the pull out your hair club. :hair::crazy:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

This doe has at least 3 weeks before she kids. You need to make plans to leave town until then.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

It won't hurt to give her a tums every day. I like to give CMPK because it's a balanced mix, but I keep that on hand.

98% of the time, goats birth fine on their own. But I stay close when a goat does the will-she-or-won't-she thing. If the kids don't get in position, at some point, they're going to come out anyway. Like I said, usually they do get in position, but it's always good to be there anyway and extra good in a case like this.

If she'll tolerate the handling, I'd suggest you trim the hair around her tail/backside/rear udder. The birthing fluids get stuck and gross.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm leaving for Florida in 6 days and was hoping to be here when she kids! I've never seen a live birth. I will give her tums until I leave just to help her out. I'll have my fiancé hold her so I can clip her tonight. I don't think she has three weeks left, but I'm beginning to think she is just playing games with me! I'm now hoping she will wait a bit longer though because we are about to have a string of cold nights here in Tennessee.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Well she wasn't having the shaving of the back end but here's new picks of her.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Going just off of the pics, I'd say she has time. But, hard to say if she is the type to fill her udder after she kids.

Goats can be very expressive in their discomfort in pregnancy, and some get through pregnancy with flying colors! 
They can have goo/discharge for many weeks before they kid - mucus plug. We've had some with no goo, and some that have heaps of it coming out.

Wet tail could be from wiping the goo, or... some does when they are heavily pregnant won't get up to urinate at night, and end up getting urine all over them. We have one of those right now, she looks so messy.

Keep an eye on those ligs, usually that's the best sign <at least for me> that they will have kids soon. But I also observe the girls very closely from a distance and look for any changes - personality, appetite, staring at walls/concentrating, etc.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

That's the problem. Her ligs are gone, she is staying far away from the others and she seems so frustrated. Just hate this for her /:


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## Woody_Glen_Farm (Feb 23, 2014)

Sometimes when people haven't done this many times they mistakenly think the ligs are "gone" because they are reaching around the base of the tail instead of 3" back on the spine. Practice felling them on your other goats and then try her again. When the are truly gone you can expect kids within 12 hours. 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Any news?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She is still up on her sides yet. Her udder is getting bigger, so she is getting closer, but I don't think she is quite there yet.

Any nesting and getting up and down?

Has there been a discharge?

Ligs can come and go.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

She's still getting up and down, and digging holes to China. Her ligs are as gone as I have ever felt. She seems so nervous so I don't know what is going on


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

And yes lots of discharge. Lost her mucus plug about 2 weeks ago


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Do you know her due date? Are you certain that her bag increased in size and then decreased?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wash up and put on a rubber gloves, go in gently and slightly with 2 fingers and see if she is open or you hit a wall.
If she is open, she is having issues, pawing getting up and down is a sign she may be in trouble, if she has been doing this for a very long time.

Have you noticed any pushing?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Okay, I just went back and saw that you don't know the due date. She has been pawing since 12/22 with discharge since the 22nd or 23rd. Is that correct?

I agree that checking the cervix would be a good idea, but I'm also feeling like you need a vet's assistance. I don't want to scare you, but seeing that this has been going on for several days, it is time to be a bit worried.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

On the palpating, once I enter the tail head should I only be able to fit a few fingers in? I will go back tonight and check her again. I am getting increasingly worried because every time I go to check on her her tail is soaked so I am beginning to believe she can't control her bladder or something. She has had discharge over about a week or so, but not any that I have seen in the last 24 hours. I will go up and check and post when I get back. Thank you for your advice everyone! It means a lot!!


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Okay, just to be clear, you will be putting your clean, gloved fingers in her vagina, or birth canal, if you prefer to call it that. Check for stretchiness, as in how many fingers can fit, but more importantly, see how far you can get your finger(s) in: do you hit a wall (closed cervix) or is it open?
As for urine leakage, I have seen that in very pregnant does, with innocent cause. Might indicate something more serious, but I'm not qualified to speculate. Your nose should tell you if it is urine or not. 
Can you post updated pictures, if there have been changes?


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Okay I felt the birth canal and was able to stick two fingers in all the way without much of a fight. Here's new pictures


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Do you have any goat breeders local to you that could take a look at her maybe for you? To help ease your mind or help you out if there is a problem?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately at this point you need someone physically there to look at her. The pictures aren't telling us much.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

IMO, unless she acts like she is in distress and is truly showing labor signs, then I would just let her be. I am no pro & could always be wrong, but just by what I am seeing in pics and reading, she just sounds like a typical, pregnant doe


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

I think I'll call the man I got mine from and ask him to come out on Monday. Even if she is normal, it would make me feel better.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes, definitely check if you're worried. My best doe usually pops out her kids while my back is turned and has them up and dry by the time I notice. Last year she went into labor, lots of up and down with no progression - turns out she had a breech stillborn :/ I could tell something was wrong almost immediately just because that's not like her. Some do take their time though.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

You put your fingers all the way in without hitting resistance? If the cervix is open babies should be coming out. The canal should be about 3-5 inches long; if you don't feel a closed cervix, you need to reach in further and see if you feel kids (or if the cervix is deeper than the length of your fingers). When you reach in deeper, it needs to be very clean. Some folks recommend washing her back end first; I mix a little iodine into the lube and use VERY clean hands inside gloves (but I've only had to do it twice, so hopefully someone else will give you better advice).

Can you call the breeder tomorrow? 

I'm concerned if she bagged up and then it went down. To me, that says she needed to resorb the nutrients, or else her body believed that the day she bagged up was "the" day, and her udder expected to be nursed to keep producing.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Well maybe, it tells me she had some inflammation in her udder and it solved it's self from immunity avoiding the nasty congested udder at birth, hopefully.
I've not seen anything out of the ordinary here yet. She's uncomfortable and getting ready.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she is open she is ready, or getting closer and dilating or having issues trying to. 

When you put your fingers in there and hit no wall, she is open, they do not open for nothing. 
If you stuck your fingers in there and right away, hit a wall, she is closed and not ready at all.
I am concerned for her. Hopefully someone can look at her who has more experience in kidding issues.
It is of concern she has been acting this way for a long period of time.

For peace of mind, have her looked at ASAP. We here, cannot feel or really look her over physically.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

goathiker said:


> Well maybe, it tells me she had some inflammation in her udder and it solved it's self from immunity avoiding the nasty congested udder at birth, hopefully.
> I've not seen anything out of the ordinary here yet. She's uncomfortable and getting ready.


You certainly have more experience than I do, and you're probably right.

But all of the indications together worry me. I've never had a doe seriously pawing for going on 6 days now. Along with the bag decreasing and several days of discharge, due date unknown, and now a lot of wetness on the tail...

Kaitlin, did you sniff the back end? Did it smell like urine, birth fluids, or smell bad? Can you feel the kids moving in there?


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

On the side of calm, one of my does had a goopy back end for weeks before birth, to the point that I trimmed her tail and hindquarter hair, rather than try to keep up with cleaning it. And she kidded healthy kids on time, and with no help from me. Also on the side of calm, did the bag actually decrease in size, or did it just _seem_ to?

On the side of concern, like harleybarley says, it is important to have a sniff of her back end to get an idea of what sort of fluid is coming out of her. If kids are kicking, fine. But it might be too cramped of quarters in there for them to kick much. Is she maintaining proper temperature, or is she running a fever? Is she eating okay? When you said you saw deep triangular hollows in front of her hips, I thought back then that things were in motion, and kids would be on the ground by now!


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

She hasn't changed much unfortunately. Her back end doesn't really smell like anything. When she squats to pee there's not a lot that comes out. Her bag seemed to decrease but it feels a little bigger today. Again no discharge today. Here's a thought, could parasites of some type cause problems for her this late in pregnancy? Our vet is coming out in the morning to take a look at her. I did not feel the babies today at all. Onto her ligs, there's a little almost circle of bone above her tail head, feeling in front of that she is soft but not completely gone. I'll ask the doc to feel her tomorrow because although I didn't feel a wall, I may be doing it wrong. I will update you all in the morning. Thank you for trying to give me peace of mind!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

If you were in 4 or so inches & couldn't go any further she is most likely not dilated yet.
When not ready some of mine will hit the ceiling when checking.
As for all the pawing, some girls do it a lot even when not quite ready.
Is she stretching her back a lot or rubbing against fence or anything?
Prayer that she goes before the vet arrives so you will be able to cancel that appt.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Kaitlin said:


> She hasn't changed much unfortunately. Her back end doesn't really smell like anything. When she squats to pee there's not a lot that comes out. Her bag seemed to decrease but it feels a little bigger today. Again no discharge today. Here's a thought, could parasites of some type cause problems for her this late in pregnancy? Our vet is coming out in the morning to take a look at her. I did not feel the babies today at all. Onto her ligs, there's a little almost circle of bone above her tail head, feeling in front of that she is soft but not completely gone. I'll ask the doc to feel her tomorrow because although I didn't feel a wall, I may be doing it wrong. I will update you all in the morning. Thank you for trying to give me peace of mind!


Parasites can certainly rob a goat of nutrients, but we're not seeing toxemia. She still has normal energy.

The bigger problem late in pregnancy is space. The pregnant goat is a New York apartment occupied by an extended family of babies and internal organs. Small space, lots of work going on in there. If the babies get too big, the rumen and bladder don't have a lot of space to work in. If the babies get way too big, there may not be room for the babies and uterus to work in, either. The babies need to "swim" into birthing position, and they need to fit out the door when the party ends.

Hopefully she's just getting ready. But I'm glad you're getting help. When a birth seems to be going wrong, we can wait it out and hope (and maybe lose the kids and dam, or maybe wake up to healthy babies), we can go in and fix it (which can take some experience or instinct), or we can bring a vet or experienced breeder out to read conflicting signs with an expert eye and figure out whether there is a problem. The signs at this stage are so subtle and mixed, you've got several of us disagreeing on whether it's normal or worrisome. A good vet can tell you which of us to ignore.


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Sorry for replying so late but I have great news! Vet came out and she is 100% okay. She did need to be wormed and has a pep in her step tonight. Vet was able to show me what you all were telling me and NOW I understand. She has a string of yellowish discharge tonight and doc said she would be due anytime this week from tonight to early January. So I just want to thank you all again for being so awesome and helping me out! Glad the vet came out so I could learn a little more about my fur babies!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh that's great news Kaitlin!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear. 

It eases the mind.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Yay! Good news! And it sounds like she'll "pop" before you leave!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Great news!!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

That is fantastic news! It's always a relief to have a 2nd opinion, and someone that can show you what to look for, etc. I know how easy it is to worry about these silly critters! Especially when they are pregnant.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Any New Years babies yet?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Anything new?


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Did she have her babies? I gotta know! Lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Anything new?


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## Kaitlin (Jan 6, 2014)

Hey everyone! Sorry on such a late reply. I have been really sick the last two weeks and it's just been rough. BUT I helped Marcie deliver triplets three days ago, (two bucks and one brown doe) one was breach but she did fine! And I just got a text about an hour ago that my other doe just had twins! I don't know the sex yet but they are cool!!! Thank you everyone for your concern! You are all the best people in the world!


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

It's about damn time! Baby pictures!!!!!!!

Congrats! So cute! And good job getting the breached one out!


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Wow she held them in there then! I was so sure she'd have them at the beginning on January. Congrats on your beautiful kids!


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