# Never should have been bred



## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

6 year old Nubian, kidded last May and the kids just drained her. We gave her the summer to recover and she really never did. After much discussion between my wife and I it was decided to breed her to a smaller male in October. She spent the month with 20 or so other girls on the male. Earliest kidding would be the end of this month, but its still a 5 week window. She is up on all vac, BoSe, worming .... She is huge (preg) Last weekend she went down and has been unable to get to her feet since. I pick her up, get her to her back feet but she just cannot stay up. Her appetite is strong, drinks. Rumen and kidneys working fine. I have been blasting her with quick energy sources but it just isnt happening. The kids seem to be alive as I can feel movement and bodies. 
Before I get a bunch of "call your vet, get a full battery of tests" thats just not practical we sell for meat and are pretty much topped out on price in our area already. 
I have read on the internet about babies sitting on nerves, and making it unable for the mother to stand. Also, a suggestion about giving more calcium to help with muscle strength. I am giving her minerals to offset this possibility. I am open to any ideas or feedback.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Are you talking about loose minerals?
What kind of hay is she getting? 
Babies sitting on nerves should not be enough so that she cant stand up & walk.
It sounds like you are right on target with your calcium theory.
She isn't staggering is she?


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

We are giving her Sweetlix loose mineral for goats and an occasional Tums. She is getting orchard mix grass hay supplemented with alfalfa, and goat feed pellets. She is not staggering, because she is not walking. However, she is very interested in whatever we give her to eat and drinking lots of water.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Ketosis? Sounds like one we had that went down last winter. Treatment is propylene glycol.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I would look into ketosis, but I would also run a fecal to rule out wormload. Is her backend weak? Menigeal worm comes to mind if you live in an area with whitetailed deer; but ketosis is more likely.


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

Quick update. No kids yet, no change in condition. I do appreciate the advice. It must be good because it seems to fall along the track we have taken so far. Can a goat deliver survivable kids after an extended period like this? Guess I will find out.
Thanks again.
KJ


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes she could still have live kids if they come close to term like within a week.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Aww, she's beautiful. I would treat for ketosis/pregnancy toxemia...here is a link for you....

https://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Just throwing it out there, are her eyelids very pale, or white?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Mine that went down like that delivered triplets about 2 weeks later. Unfortunately, she never stood up again and had to be put down. I don't think we caught her in time. Make sure you get colostrum milked out for the kids when she does deliver. They obviously won't be able to nurse on her as she is now.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Another thing I'm wondering is if it's meningeal worms, or just a overload of blood sucking worms. It doesn't seem like copper deficiency, possible need of selenium though...


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

Eyes first thing I checked and she been able stand I would have put her in the "watch" or a 3 if you are using a card. Based on her condition I went with wormer. It seems everyone has a program ours has been effective but my hands are a little tied because she is preggers, I went with an Fenbendazol / Dectomax combo. She was BoSe and vaccined 2 weeks earlier at that time her lids would have been a 4 or better. Iron, B1, (Molass's, corn oil, corn syrup) we call it magic, calcium. Menigeal worm not a real worry based on vet in our immediate area but never say never... or did I.
We brought her in to add alittle milk to the herd as we have had some moderate or less milk production from our Boers, and we have been very happy with Nub/Boer and our buyers seem to like the leggy nature of the Nubian. Sadly we wont breed her again if she 1st survives and 2nd doesnt really recover to a much better state. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 others that are going to start soon and it will be tough o give her the one on one she has been getting.
Thanks for the support.


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

She seems a bit stronger in the legs today. She also seems to love being waited on.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you tried putting her in some kind of sling to have her on her feet for a while?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with whats been said..treat for both Ketosis and Preg. Toxemia....Daily probioitcs to keep her rumen up and going..laying down alot can be hard on the belly...I would continue daily Fortified B complex as well andkeep her hydrated, getting her up as much as you can, ..use a bale of hay,a sling or something to support her....Both Ketosis an Preg. Toxemia can be hard to recover from...you dont want loss of muscle to interfier with her recovery..If you new she was with ina week of delivery, you could induce labor to give hre faster relief...


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

Anyone with pics of an effective goat sling? She still cannot stand but is now strong enough to turn herself to keep her face out of the wind. 2 other girls went off yesterday so maybe she is close. There does seem to be what I would describe as distention in the "lady parts" as well as some discharge. I have let a little discharge get me all worked up thinking birth was imminent before so I am not to sure this is a sign. Anyway pics or descriptions of slings or stand supports that work, seems to me that what I picture in my mind (not a big picture) would put even more stress on the abdomen and back.


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## gegegoatgirl2698 (Feb 1, 2014)

I don't have personal pics but I had a doe with two broken legs; Long story but I bought her at the sale-barn because she was heavy bred and the kill buyer was bidding (it was $10) and I hand delivered triplets 3 days later then put her out of her misery cause she was in a lot of pain. Anywho I used a horse halter like in pic below for front and a pony cinch for back end on a panel of pipe fence with the bottom pipes broken out of it. Don't know of this will help but good luck.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I would just get some strong material and rope. Make a rectangle that fits her body length wise from behind shoulders to in front of hind legs and that wraps up around her past her back. Attach rope by either sewing a tube area in front and back and running rope through, or tying to each corner. Lift off of ground slowly and attach to ceiling or whatever you are using to anchor it. Only let hang like this with feet touching ground for short periods- like 20-30 minutes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would keep pressure off her belly...do as loggyacres suggest but make it open bellied...

hopefully she will kid soon, sounds like with the poochy pooch and discharge she is almost there...do keep up treatment until she is up and going if you keep her in milk...If she struggles to recover, I might dry her up and bottle raise the kids..

Best wishes


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

When she starts contractions, I would like to recommend an herbal product called "Ewe-Ter-N" from Fir Meadow. It's herbal, and you only give it when contractions start. It's supposed to help with strong contractions, and Kat had a doe that wasn't able to exercise at all during pregnancy (due to an injury), that Ewe-Ter-N was able to greatly assist.

:hug: Hope she pulls through for you!


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

Thanks to gegegoatgirl2698 and loggyacreslivestock both posts came in very handy today. Sorta makes you say "duh, why didn't I already think of that". 
The news is good and bad. I took the time to make pancakes for the kids and relax a little longer than normal between checks this morning and she kidded without us. Maybe an hour and forty five minutes.
She must have scooted as they came and wound up on top of 1 and she didn't break the sack on another. They didn't make it, neither ever took a breath in my presence. Both were viable. 
The next 2 fared better we had to hot bath 1 to get its temp up (dam they loose heat fast) the other was just barley at a survivable temp 96.7. 
We were able to gets plenty of colostrum (horse halter a power lifting belt with 2 ratchet straps and we had her up) tubed it into the kids all day long. 
She has been able to walk a little but collapses, so we wont put the kids back on her. Bottle babies grrrrrrrrrrrr but they are nice looking kids.
Another 1 of our not great mothers that we keep around because she is first generation born on site dropped 2 also that we wound up tubing. 
2 kids aau bball games in the mixed in, been a long day, will post some pics later.
Thanks to everyone who took the time.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

congrats on the new kids..hopefully mom will continue to gain strength! Bottle babies would be safest...

best wishes


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## gegegoatgirl2698 (Feb 1, 2014)

Sorry for your losses but Congrats on the new kids. Hope everybody and the mama get better for you.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Congrats on new kids. Hope mom will get better.


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

Update on mom who my wife has informed me has a name, Queen. She can get up on her own, walk and eat, milk production is greatly increased. We still bottle her babies with the milk and I am introducing them to a feeding station today. They arent terribly efficient but bottling gets old. I am amazed at the level of recovery Queen has had so far, her body condition is still terrible so we will see what a little time does for her


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is great news! I hope she continues to recover for you.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Yayyy!


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