# BoSe reaction survey



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

A conversation recently come up over severe reaction (anaphylactic shock) and miscarriage in goats...I know at any time an animal can react to any injection given but I have never had an issue so Im puzzled how many have actually had a problem...

I know you should never used BoSe in pregnant ewes as it can cause death, never heard it about goats....



so here we go....any one with a story


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Not me, in fact I mistakenly gave a second dose 10days after of BoSe & CDT to two pregnant goats about a month out. (I freaked out but they were fine)
Written on my box of BoSe by my vet; "BoSe is off label for preg goats but sometimes a necessary risk." But I totally get any liability issues.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No problems here. I know people who used frequent high doses in alpaca crias to straighten their legs out and had no problems.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

No problems here either. I give to every doe 30 days prior to kidding. I also give to all show goats several times during show season. A lady who shows with us gives it to each show doe once a month during show season.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I've had no problems with it.


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## GoatCrazy01 (Feb 14, 2016)

I've also had no problems with it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thank all....keep it coming....


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Could you administer the selenium E gel? Oral product? How does the oral selenium compare to Bose?


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

This is the gel product.


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## Kelly_Farm (Dec 27, 2016)

I prefer the oral gel to BoSe. You just have to keep up with it every 30-50 days in breeding stock.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Difference between gel and injectable is gel you give monthy..can become costly for larger herds..BOSE is 1-2 times a year....quick easy..done.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I never have had problems with it either.. 
I always gave it to my guys a month before planned breeding , and then again a month before kidding. Never had any reactions in my goats.
I even had one doe who was very deficient and got it three to four times a year for a few years..


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanks for this thread!!!! Just marking on the calendar when to give pregnant does, and always wondered if I really was doing the right thing instead of just using the gel monthly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I never had an issue either.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Great info, once again!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I kidded 45 does last year (2016) and used Bo-Se sq along with a vitamin E gel cap squirted orally and never had a problem. (I probably am jinxing myself). I've given it to over 150 does over the last few years. No trouble.


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## kelly t (Jan 26, 2013)

What dose of bo-se does everyone give to their goats?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

1 ml per 40 pounds


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I actually underdose Bo-Se. I give my mature goats, Does and Bucks just 2 cc's SQ. I always fear of overdosing it, but giving just that for mine does the trick. Remember, they can get selenium in other ways such as in feed ect.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks everone for your feed back...its good to hear so far no reactions...

Keep sharing.....


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I Have lambed out 300 ewes for 16 years. I give one cc to every new born lamb and never had a problem.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow..300 ewes with an average of twins x 16 years !!! thats 9, 600 lambs!!!! Impressive!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No problem


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Just bad subq lumps most of the time if I give it subq, which is why I switched to IM for almost all injections. I don't even use bose anymore, I use multimin 90 and ad-e, if at all. I have a pretty good mineral now.


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

No problems here and I've dosed during pregnancies. I give 1cc per 60lbs


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I will be giving BoSe to all my does before kidding after this year .... had a kid so constipated from selenium deficiency he needed two BoSe shots before his legs and his poops started to improve.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Oh I forgot to add, all my kids got some orally at birth. Standard kids got 1/2cc and mini kids got 1/4cc.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thanks everyone...keep it coming. Would love to hear from others


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Don't think we've had any reactions either. We do the 2cc dose too I believe. My records aren't nearby. But that's what I recall. 

Just had surgery for one of our goats. And vet said to give high dose of vit e. Giving 5000 iu daily. Helps with healing etc. 

Had another goat with cough that wouldn't seem to go away and gave some vit e squeezed into a herb ball and goat seems markedly better. He's also been eating a lot of garlic as well!! Vit e helps their coats too.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

What does the garlic do? I apologize if this has already been explained! Worming, I thought, but not sure if I am correct or if it is something else?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Helps with worms yes..but also boosts immune system and is a natural antibiotic...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Helps with worms yes..but also boosts immune system and is a natural antibiotic...


Off track sorry....but you just get a garlic clove or something and give it?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I break a few whole garlic bulbs into a bunch of cloves and feed in feeders..i dont even take the papers off....ill have to get a video of them eating it lol..it's crazy


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Awesome!! I'm going to try this. I have a doe with a infection on her chest floor and she is down so I'm kinda throwing the book at her right now. Thank you


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

*Garlic worms antibiotic*



happybleats said:


> Helps with worms yes..but also boosts immune system and is a natural antibiotic...


Whoa-awesome!

Funny, but seriously, at the sheep conference some were discussing the merits of garlic, garlic garlic, garlic! For sheep and also people!

Hmm...looks like we should start a garlic patch now too!:fireworks:
:ram::fireworks:

The Power of Garlic!:fireworks:


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes it's powerful stuff! Mine seem to know when they need it. Sometimes they eat it like candy. Other times some of them might not need any. Even the baby I have left over from 2016 breeding eats it. She has to ear smaller cloves. But I breakup whole bulbs and bring it out in a plastic container and they gather round and eat. 

I need to find some good feeders I can drill to the wall for this purpose. 

I'd love to see a study on how garlic affects worm loads. Probably it's never been done. But I bet it would show big changes in worm loads. 

Jessica I would recommend Vit E capsules (natural vit e not the fake stuff. )as well for your doe with chest stuff. My vet recommends for healing. It's great stuff! Helps with coats too. So soft. I am giving my 240 lb goat 5000 IU per day right now. He had surgery. It seems to help with healing. My vet is right. I put it in herb balls. But you could drizzle the gel caps on her grain. Just a thought. 

Garlic should definitely help her too! Will be interesting to see if she gobbles it up. Leave the skins on the garlic. It helps them eat them I think. They like the crunchy papers on the outside of the cloves! 

Tami


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

There is studies on garlic barrier..i think they did a worm load study with it..might google that...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I will try the vitamin E as well! I've been having to lift her up on her feet for two weeks tomorrow so I'm at the point I'll try anything!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok last time I'll get off topic here. I gave her garlic and the vitamin E, I forced both down her and not sure which one or if it was just luck but when I let her out of her sling she didn't just stay on her feet but went out and walked about 100' from her stall. It also started raining and I rushed home to drag her back in and she went back home! This is a doe that I found on her side 13 days ago and couldn't stand on her feet more then 10 minutes at a time before she would fall over! 
Ok back on track lol


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I feel like it's a very safe supplement. I've never had a pregnant doe even take a deep breath from it. I give 5cc twice during pregnancy. I worked up to that dose though as I found out how deficient my farm is. Honestly though, it doesn't work as well as a daily dietary supplement of Vit E and Selenium does. The best kidding season I ever had was two years ago when I fed it. Does squirting out multiples in minutes. Placentas out in less than an hour. Powerful hungry kids.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Cathy have you started a garlic thread yet? I have stuff to share. Thought I'd ask. Sorry to be off topic. Tami


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I'm on the subject today  
Tennacross do you recall when you gave it to your bred does? Like how far along they were? A few years back I gave it to the does 30 days before they were due and I didn't see a difference in the kids born. Still had triplets dragging back legs so this year I was THINKING about giving it to them half way threw being bred, which is pretty much now to see if there was a difference......I've just been holding off because this thread popped up so I thought I would stalk it first and see what everyone said


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

No problems here at all - of course, I have a small herd. But over the past few years we've had LOTS of kids. All have had BoSe and Cdt with zero problems.

The only reaction I have ever seen was a goat who went down after a dose of penicillin at a 4-H event. Fortunately someone there had epi and all was well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Ok last time I'll get off topic here. I gave her garlic and the vitamin E, I forced both down her and not sure which one or if it was just luck but when I let her out of her sling she didn't just stay on her feet but went out and walked about 100' from her stall. It also started raining and I rushed home to drag her back in and she went back home! This is a doe that I found on her side 13 days ago and couldn't stand on her feet more then 10 minutes at a time before she would fall over!
> Ok back on track lol


Thats great Jessica!!



> Cathy have you started a garlic thread yet? I have stuff to share. Thought I'd ask. Sorry to be off topic. Tami


No i haven't....go ahead and start one...should be interesting to hear how garlic is used and how its helped everyone


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> Ok I'm on the subject today
> Tennacross do you recall when you gave it to your bred does? Like how far along they were? A few years back I gave it to the does 30 days before they were due and I didn't see a difference in the kids born. Still had triplets dragging back legs so this year I was THINKING about giving it to them half way threw being bred, which is pretty much now to see if there was a difference......I've just been holding off because this thread popped up so I thought I would stalk it first and see what everyone said


How much did you give?

When I give two doses during a pregnancy, I give it at about 1-2 months bred and another time at about 4 months bred. If I get strung out and I'm thinking they might be too far out, I'll give another 2-3 ccs a couple days before kidding. But like I said, if you want the full effects of selenium, feed it.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh there's no way I can do the tubed stuff, I have 62 (I think) bred does. I did 3cc to all of them, a bit light on the dose but I'm still a chicken :/ I do have selenium salt out for them and let them pick and choose when they need it but it's been out there for about 3 years now so not much picking on that. Either way I want to give everyone a shot so I'll go with it and see if it works or not, I don't think it will hurt them any if it doesn't help the kids since it's been awhile since they have had a shot


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jessica that is so great about your doe! Garlic and vit e are powerful tools in healing!! So glad to hear she is doing better. I'd continue both of them for a while at least. Should continue to help her. 

Cathy I will start a thread on garlic. 

This is facinating about how you give and how much selenium! I'm taking two does to be bred on Sunday so I'm gonna see how long it's been since we gave selenium. It hasn't been too long I don't think tho. So not sure if I should give more bose.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Tenacross said:


> I feel like it's a very safe supplement. I've never had a pregnant doe even take a deep breath from it. I give 5cc twice during pregnancy. I worked up to that dose though as I found out how deficient my farm is. Honestly though, it doesn't work as well as a daily dietary supplement of Vit E and Selenium does. The best kidding season I ever had was two years ago when I fed it. Does squirting out multiples in minutes. Placentas out in less than an hour. Powerful hungry kids.


Which supplement did you use for that kidding season? I'm all about easy kiddings.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> daily dietary supplement of Vit E and Selenium does


 Tenacross, What do you use??


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh there's no way I can do the tubed stuff, I have 62 (I think) bred does. I did 3cc to all of them, a bit light on the dose but I'm still a chicken :/ I do have selenium salt out for them and let them pick and choose when they need it but it's been out there for about 3 years now so not much picking on that. Either way I want to give everyone a shot so I'll go with it and see if it works or not, I don't think it will hurt them any if it doesn't help the kids since it's been awhile since they have had a shot


I don't do the tube stuff either. I fed a selenium and vitamin E supplement daily with their feed ration.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

ThreeHavens said:


> Which supplement did you use for that kidding season? I'm all about easy kiddings.


Here is the one I used two years ago and am going to use again this year.
https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/v...campaign=nb_shopping_smartpaks&utm_term=14660

I picked this one because it is pellets made of mostly alfalfa that looks nearly identical to my pelleted feed. My does are picky things that aren't used to eating their feed with anything else added. Main problem: this product is expensive. I gave 1/2 a scoop and worked up to about 3/4 of a scoop as they got close to kidding. I start about 30 days out.

Another year I used the human selenium tablets you can buy at the drug store and one Vit E gel cap per day in their feed. I crushed two of the selenium tablets. I think this works just as good and is cheaper, but I had a hard time getting my does to reliably eat it. This would probably not be a problem for people who routinely add various stuff to their feed like milk goat herds. I used the 200mcg strength.

I'm going to try a different/cheaper pellet on my less valuable does this year. I'll recommend it if I have good luck.

Of course I have boers and you might want to cut down for NGs or other smaller breeds. The lady who mentored me to be this aggressive with Se E says if you start getting close to "too much" the does eyes will start to tear and they will go off their feed for a day or so. I never had this happen. The results were shocking in a good way. I doubt anyone will believe me.  I can share the "math" she shared with me if anyone is interested.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Jessica that is so great about your doe! Garlic and vit e are powerful tools in healing!! So glad to hear she is doing better. I'd continue both of them for a while at least. Should continue to help her.
> 
> Cathy I will start a thread on garlic.
> 
> This is facinating about how you give and how much selenium! I'm taking two does to be bred on Sunday so I'm gonna see how long it's been since we gave selenium. It hasn't been too long I don't think tho. So not sure if I should give more bose.


I was thinking keep going on it too, only thing is she has the runs but I'm not really sure if it was from that or the wormer since the day before I wormed her and her poop was coming out like dog poop. But ya not totally watery just cow patties.
Thank you tennacross! Did you try feeding it alone or just straight with their grain? I don't feed grain so will have to think how to give it but maybe if they are not crazy about it I can get some alfalfa pellets and mix it in. Also thank you on what to look for on over doing it! That has been a serious fear of mine so knowing what to look for is great!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> Thank you tennacross! Did you try feeding it alone or just straight with their grain? I don't feed grain so will have to think how to give it but maybe if they are not crazy about it I can get some alfalfa pellets and mix it in. Also thank you on what to look for on over doing it! That has been a serious fear of mine so knowing what to look for is great!


I hear what you are saying. You have 62 head and your management style doesn't really fit with feeding a selenium supplement. The dairy goat lady who taught me said her Saanens will eat the pills right out of her hand. My goats would find this hilarious. If you have a smaller group of does that are close in kidding date, you could try the selenium pellets in some alfalfa pellets. I think your best bet would be to give 5cc BoSe at 30 days and another 2-3cc a couple days before kidding.

For me and all the trouble I used to have with weak labors and weak kids, the extra work is worth it, but I only breed about 12 - 15 breeding age does a year and their kidding dates are usually well spread out. Dealing with weak kids and sick does is a lot of work too. It's been very satifying to have more does spit out hungry powerful kids and go to bed confident all is well.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Pretty much all but a handful are due the last week of march and first week of April. 30 of them are due within a 5 day period. I have one pen that only has 18 does in it with the one buck so maybe I'll try it out on them. Other then goofy legs on some triplets I really haven't seen that big of a issue. Having one drag it's back legs around for a few days is pretty sad but really nothing to serious like it sounds like you have! So 30 days bred? I'll have to miss that one but I'll do the last one and bump up the amount (deep breath it will be ok lol)


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> Pretty much all but a handful are due the last week of march and first week of April. 30 of them are due within a 5 day period. I have one pen that only has 18 does in it with the one buck so maybe I'll try it out on them. Other then goofy legs on some triplets I really haven't seen that big of a issue. Having one drag it's back legs around for a few days is pretty sad but really nothing to serious like it sounds like you have! So 30 days bred? I'll have to miss that one but I'll do the last one and bump up the amount (deep breath it will be ok lol)


I know you've been doing it awhile and if your program is working don't change on my account. Different areas of the country have different selenium needs. I was talking to a well known boer mentor from Texas and she barely knows what selenium is, let alone how tough it is to be deficient. It is known that where I live in Western WA it is very low. But if you didn't have a noticeable good response to 3cc at @30 days, I would consider doing some experimenting at the very least. Pick a doe(s) who aren't your favorite and especially if they or their kids have had trouble before. Push the envelope a little bit. Seriously, with all the scare talk out there about selenium, how many people have you heard kill a goat with it? You hear about does dying from bad kiddings, retained kids/placentas and weak kids dying by the bunches every year.


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