# Question on producing a strong milker



## All_Hands_Farm (May 27, 2014)

I read that in producing a good milker, it's important to let a first freshener produce milk for her full 305 day cycle, or she may not produce for a full cycle after that. Problem is, we are buying a new N. Dwarf who kidded the first time in June, and we'd like to breed her on schedule with our other does, which would mean drying her out about 3 months before her 305 day mark. Has anyone else heard this "rule", or know whether it matters or not to making a good milker for future freshenings?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I have not found it to be a problem. No matter what it comes down to you doing what you need to do.


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

All_Hands_Farm said:


> I read that in producing a good milker, it's important to let a first freshener produce milk for her full 305 day cycle, or she may not produce for a full cycle after that. Problem is, we are buying a new N. Dwarf who kidded the first time in June, and we'd like to breed her on schedule with our other does, which would mean drying her out about 3 months before her 305 day mark. Has anyone else heard this "rule", or know whether it matters or not to making a good milker for future freshenings?


I do not find that breeding a doe back earlier and therefore having to dry her off earlier hurts milk production or persistance.

However when doe is milked less than 305 days and then dried off before she really should be it does reduce the milk yield on subsequent lactation as well as steepening the lactation curve.

I once talked to several dairy people at the ADGA convention. Both said they never bought show goats. I asked why since good conformation should be good production. They said because so many were dried off early after show season that not only did it permanently steepen their lactations but it also steepened their kids lactations. This made no sense to me till I started reading about epigenetics.


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## All_Hands_Farm (May 27, 2014)

Thank you for this information - are you saying that drying off after re-breeding is not so impactive on future milking curve than just drying off alone?


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

Yes.


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## All_Hands_Farm (May 27, 2014)

Great - thank you for the input!


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## chloes (Feb 14, 2014)

Breed her while she is in milk!!!!:thumb:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

It has absolutely no effect in her kids if she is dried off early. And it has absolutely no effect if I dry mine up right after peak, or milk for ten months. 
I milked my last first freshener for about 6 months. She was milking 12lbs that lactation. She freshened this year, milking a steady 17-18lbs. 
Last year I had a doe milking 16lbs, dried her off about 7 months in, this year she was milking 18lbs. I dried that doe off at 5 months, rebred her, and she's due in December. All my does will milk 10+ months regardless of when they were dried up. 
They will milk to their genetic potential if they are fed right, no matter what. As long as their isn't fat in the udder.

It does not matter at all when you dry them up. The only time it matters is when you breed a doeling too late, her udder will get fatty tissue in it, reducing milk ability. 

I only own and buy show does, it seriously doesn't make a lick of difference.


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## All_Hands_Farm (May 27, 2014)

Thanks very much ~ we have decided to go ahead and breed her with the other does in October, to dry off in Jan, which give her about 7 months of milking the first time. **Hopefully** she will give us a good strong 10 months on her 2nd freshening. Appreciate the advice!


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## kbluebkeman (Jul 22, 2013)

Little Bits, what is considered breeding a doeling "too late"?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have had does not stay in steady lactation after their first lactation was shortened (only in milk for 2-3 months). It also matters if you leave kids on the doe or if you pull and milk from the beginning. 

I can explain more of my experience with this if you care to know.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Stacey, I am interested, how does it affect production if you leave the kids on vs milk from the beginning? I assume she will produce less since the kids would take less than I would if I was milking? But not sure since the kids would be feeding more often than I would milk.. So yes, please elaborate, I am curious!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry took me so long to respond, my 1 year old son has a cold and he's pretty cranky. 

We use to pull kids and bottle raise. The dams were milked twice a day from birthing onward. Lactation would peak and then drop but only slightly and then stay steady for a lengthly period of time. We would dry off two months before there due date (or projected due date as we pen bred some times). 

Then we switched to allowing the dams to keep their kids and pulled the kids at night and milked in the morning. Once kids left then we milked twice a day. This worked pretty well with our standard dairy goats as we did keep up with the milking (had them specifically for milk). 

When I switched to Nigerian Dwarf I got into showing. And I've noticed a trend that when the kids leave the moms drastically dropped in production and nothing I did would bring that production back up. 

I've also noticed in the does I just let raise their kids and wean them the following year would have a shorter time to peak (6 weeks instead of 8) and then drop off quicker and their base amount was much less for the rest of their lactation. 

With large dairy goats a difference of 1/2-1 cup is barely nothing when they are producing a gallon a day at peak. But when it's a smaller doe that 1/2 cup can make a huge difference. 

Just a little bit I've noticed. 

I love letting my does raise their own kids. But part of me wishes they wouldn't get so attached and depressed when the kids leave.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanx Stacie! I have Nubians so looks like either option would work for me 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

If you don't like your results then switch it up and try something different the next year. Finding your personal preference will take time. But you will learn what works best for you and your goats


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