# Hermaphrodite... *bangs head against wall*



## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Well, Leia having triplet doelings was definitely too good to be true (besides the traumatic birth, that is.). While we thought they were all precious and perfect, thanking daddy "Obi" for not giving us triplet boys again, he was up there in his big ole' pen smiling his behind off because he knew the truth.

Doeling #1, Belle: Belle is small and cute, has a pretty white face...ect.... ect... and has a parrot mouth.

Doeling #2, Ella: Ella currently has nothing wrong with her, but hey- that is what tomorrow is for!

Doeling #3, Ariel: Ariel is most likely a hermaphrodite. :wallbang:

 I am so bummed right now. She has the little upward facing growth on her vulva, and I am pretty sure she's a hermie. I have never dealt with this before, so I have a few questions.

1. Even if she can breed, her babies are useless, right? If they can only be used for slaughter, then we won't be able to sell her as a breeder around here.

2. This breeding was daughter to father, we were told this was okay, and have never had problems before. Could the hermie be a result from this?

3. Should we still repeat the breeding?

Sorry for blowing up a little, I am just very let down by this  Thank you for listening


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

If she is a hermie, she will never conceive because of the testosterone that the hidden testicles produce. Chances are she will never come in heat.

It may have been because of the father/daughter or it could have been from something else. I had a true hermie last year. Neither parent was even slightly related to each other nor were they polled. The sire a Nubian with just pure Nubian breeding, the dam a Lamancha with no Nubian breeding for as far back as you can trace. She has quads, 3 does and a buck. One normal female, one normal male. One doe was a freemartin and the other was a hermie. Of course, the hermie was the best kid of the year and also was wildly colored. She made a great heat detector last fall, but I couldn't afford to keep a doe who will never be a doe so she and her freemartin sister went to a pet home.

There has been some research that it can be caused by environmental things, chemicals and such, in the food, water or air.

My Nubian buck has sired a bunch of kids and never had a hermie before or since. Same with the doe. I did not repeat the breeding this year only because I had bought a Lamancha buckling last year for my Lamancha herd. If I hadn't gotten the LM buck, I would have bred the doe back to the Nubian just too see if it happened again.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Could you post a picture please?


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Grace, I will go get a picture. Lottsagoats, thanks! That makes me feel better about the breeding. We really don't want to sell our doe or get another buck  And yes, this little one is the best out of the trips too. A shame


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I'll have to check to see if I still have the pics of my hermie. Even early on she was "different", sort of a freakish looking vulva.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Here are pictures. The pink spot is just light pigment.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How is she peeing? It looks more like a "deformed" vulva opening than anything. You can still see a slit there, it is just the end that isn't quite right. I would want to know how she is peeing though.

I saw something like that in an alpaca. Turned out she was a female and just needed the vulva surgerically cut by the vet to be proper. Healed just fine and went on to have crias with no problems.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Yes she has a slit, it is just turned upward a bit. I don't think her pee stream goes up much more than normal, but I will try to watch later. And her teats aren't small and male-ish either. Do you know if vets can check?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't think she's a hermaphrodite  I had a doeling last year that was almost like that -- it straightened out and became perfectly normal.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I have to agree  she doesn't look lilt the hermie pics I have seen


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## CanucksStar-17 (May 3, 2013)

I don't know much about goats but I asked my sister if breeding father to daughter is bad and she said YES! Some people do it if they know exactly what they are doing! (Not saying you don't) My sister said that she bred on of our does with her brother but she checked the papers and made sure that the inbreeding percentage is under 10% It is 7.24% and my sister said that it is higher then she would like it! She said that the best percentage is 1 or 2% of inbreeding. Any percentage over 10% then you are bound to have problems! If your goats came with papers then you should be able to check this! To make sure the percentage of inbreeding is under 10%!

Yes I think the breeding the father and daughter is what resulted in the problems! I would advise you to check the percentage before doing it again and if you can't do that then I wouldn't chance it! I wouldn't repeat the breeding! 

If you have anymore questions just ask me and I can ask my sister! She has spent 20 years learning everything she can know about cows and goats 

I hope I could help


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your encouragement!! We will continue to watch Ariel and see if she straightens out.

CanucksStar-17: From our experience (not saying it is right at ALL), father/daughter breeding has been okay. How can the inbreeding percentage be only 7.25% if you breed a goat to its own brother? Just curious, and thanks for answering my questions


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

I tend to not be a fan of inbreeding. I watched healthy, strong dog breeds become weakened & sickened breeds with tons of genetic flaws due to years of 'line' breeding for whatever reason.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

She doesn't look like my does vulva did. My does teats were also almost totally non-existant, rather like a bucklings. Her udder area was odd and you could feel something hard, which turned out to be a testicle that enlarged as she got closer to sexual maturity. She looked male-ish, which was more pronounced as she reached maturity. 

Not all vulvas are created equal, hers may just be a tad off. I hope she comes around for you!

I have done linebreeding a bit and never had genetic problems. My hermie was 0% inbreeding!


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's replies! You guys are the best  Will keep you updated on how she turns out. And I guess everyone has their own experiences and opinions on inbreeding, which is fine


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

I heard something about lubing up and going in with a finger... I think if you hit something she's a hermie. Not sure if that is correct or not.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

http://search.babylon.com/imageres....h=270&w=360&q=hermaphrodite+goat&babsrc=SP_ss


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

The link seems to be broken! Says 'no results found'. Sometimes I wonder about my computer.....  But thank you anyway! I haven't heard about the finger thing. Then again, I don't have much experience with hermies.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

OH trust me, I worry about my computer too. Pretty much lost all of my 200 bookmarks just because I switched my browser... ugh. Anyway, try this link:

http://www.freewebs.com/caprinebeings/goatinformation.htm

Goes to the same place, but doesn't have the babylon hangy down tabby thing. Yeah, I'm techy.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

That is a great page. I will look in her vulva tomorrow and see what is inside. Aren't we all so techy :laugh:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Here is a hermie I was able to look closely at.










She was VERY masculine looking. ( http://knsfarm.blogspot.com/2012/06/hermaphrodites-in-goats.html )

I wouldn't write her off just yet - we've got a girl this year that I thought was a hermie at birth. I call her the "freak" because she's huge, but as she grows (La Mancha doeling) I am leaning more towards an unusual vulva formation than a hermaphrodite.

Hopefully that is the case for both our girls.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

WOW!  That's crazy! (So... he, she, or ..... _*it*_?) 

Here's to hoping both doelings are just that- doelings! JUST... JUST doelings... Nothing else :ROFL: :hi5:
Thanks for the support.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't think its from the breeding. I have had a doe that was extremely inbred but also extremely correct. The doe I had, her father was her grandfather, and great grandfather. We also bred her back to her dad and had an amazing buck out of the mating. So that bucks father was his grandfather and great grandfather, AND great great grandfather.
looked wacky on the papers but both went supreme grand. Never had a deformed kid from any of those matings.

However, out cross breeding is better than inbreeding by 99% (in my book), the doe Gracie was the only exception along with her buck Soldier, that was also the only time I have ever extensively inbred like that. I've been breeding alpines for 25+ years.


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