# Moving Out



## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I have made the decision that I need to move out this year. Typed out, that sounds so simple and clear... Yet it doesn't convey how terrified and elated I am at this decision!!

Those of you who have been on TGS for awhile may remember my incredibly long thread I had going last Summer/Fall. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24011 Well, for awhile I had thought I was going to stay with my Grandparents in MS, but that didn't work out in the end for them. So I've been here with the family. Things are getting too tense here and I'm afraid that if I don't leave, there will be permanent damage to family relationships. Life has been *relatively* quiet here since the old thread died down, but that's only because my dad and I have basically been avoiding each other. But we can't avoid each other any more and the tension is building worse than it ever was. This tension is affecting me in ways I never thought it would, and lately I've been struggling with severe anger problems. Not good! My dad has yet to harm me physically, but he has harmed me in every other way: mentally, emotionally, spiritually... I can't do this!

So I'm working in earnest to get my driver's license. Hope to have it by June/July. And then get a truck of my own before summer is out. Once I have my license/vehicle, that's it. I'll work on getting OUT as soon as possible.

There's a nice place an hour north of me that's up for rent and I would seriously love to rent it... It's 17 acres with a small house, two barns, two greenhouses, and cross fenced pasture. The owner is open to offers on monthly rents, and will even accept part trades in food; which would work great for me! If someone else has begun renting it by the time I'm ready though, I have some backup plans...

Of course, this does mean that I will most likely have to find an off-farm job for awhile, and that does put a damper on things. But I decided that I would rather have an off-farm job and have my own place, than stay at home with my family!

I am utterly terrified as I think about this... I have not been prepared for anything like what I will be facing... I know how to be independent, and take care of myself, but everything else such as insurance, taxes, and money are foreign to me! My parents have not taught me any of that saying that it is a husbands job and I will learn it when I marry! Gaah!

Any advice for me? Is there something I should work on learning now, while I have time? Is there anything I should know? Any advice is GREATLY appreciated! While terrified at what I do not know, the thought of being on my own and having _peace_ is elating and empowering. It's time for me to be on my own... That much I do know.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:hug: Hard to move out but it will be so good for you. 
Work on the drivers license and a vehicle and take it all from there. 
Stuff like taxes are simple and in most states you dont need to do them unless you make over 5,000.(check your state on that)
You need car ins and can get that for reasonable cost. 
Start on the license and many of us can help you out on the other stuff.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Start keeping track of what you spend now while you dont have bills. Figure out what you spend in soap, food, gas (when you get your car) what ever you can think of, it will make it easier on what you can aford as in rent, also, when you get a job, or if you already have one, save, have a back up, a 'just in case' fund. I learned that one the hard way when my husband went to the acadime and pay was half, then when he went back to work passed out at work, and workers comp is a joke. Im sure I can think of more, but that what I got for you for now 

Oh and congrats! You are a very strong girl, youll make it!


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

Caitlin, You are a strong, capable and smart young woman. Think of all you are doing in spite of having a family that is trying to suppress you. I think that you should move out sooner, rather than later. Is there a way you can get a barter on the rental deal and perhaps make improvements to the property in lieu of rent for a few months? Is it possible for you to get a housemate to help share expenses? You've been in such close contact with your family , being alone could get very lonely after the thrill wears off. 
The budget advise is good. I helped each of my sons create a budget when they were ready to go off on their own. I will pm you a list later this evening. :hi5:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

:hug: I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this but good for you. :hug: Obviously I have basically no experience with any of that stuff.. but it occurred to me that it might be a good idea, once you get your car, to have someone teach you how to do some work on it... That place sounds good... hopefully it will still be available... maybe you could talk to the people now and sort of explain the situation and they will "hold" it for you or at least only rent it out temporarily.??
Thinking about you :hug: 
M.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

It'll be hard, Caitlyn, but you will do great. I think you will be getting a lot of support here. We are all pulling for you, I think it is safe to say.

Jan


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Thank you guys for the encouragement and advice! :clap: Jessica84, that is a great tip! I will have to start being more strict with myself as to keeping records... I'm not always the best at that, but I can easily see that such a thing will be needed! I don't quite have a "job" right now... I teach workshops and lessons, so that's my income right now. The workshops are pretty good money; I'm just tuckered out by the end of the day! LOL.

Willow, I had thought about moving out sooner but I have a few reasons why I feel I should stay put until the end of summer (even if I would rather leave sooner!)
1. I have 130 chickens/turkeys pre-sold to folks in my area, and they all expect to pick them up here, where it's close to them, and not one hour north...
2. I have goats that are due to kid in July/August, and I would rather not put the stress of moving on them until after they've kidded.

And if we wanted to go with a number three... I'm still trying to get used to this idea! I lay in bed at night thinking, "What am I getting myself into...?"

But I do really like the idea of a housemate for awhile! I have no idea who would be interested in such a thing, but I think I will keep my ears to the ground from now on.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Great tips everyone! I don't have much to add.

Just wanted to say that must truly be very hard, for anyone.
I know I wouldn't last long in that situation. 
It is good that you are making plans to move out. It isn't healthy to stay in that situation much longer.
I hope things go good for you getting your license, truck, and money needed to move out (it is very expensive you will find).

So sorry things have been hard for you at this time. Once you move out I am sure they will get better.
Find some good friends (if you don't have some already) who you can talk to, ones you can share your heart with.
Friends are a must at a time like this.

You get only encouragement from me. Stay strong and trust the Lord for guidance.


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## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh! I'm happy for you, and feel for you too. It IS scary that first time you truly move out on your own! My first apartment by myself was a small rent-controlled place in Manhatten and, coming from suburbia, I was scared out of my mind. BUT... I can tell you how satisfying and happy it made me feel to pay my own bills every month -- to be fully in charge of my own life and responsible for myself. It's a terrific thing and I just know you'll thrive once you get your feet under you.

As for tips -- all I've read so far is really good advice. One thing I did when I first moved out was I got a job in the new area first, so I knew what my income would be, what I could afford to pay for rent, etc, and what area I'd like to live in. I also commuted for a while before the move so that not only did I have a job but I had friends in the new place too. If you're able to get a truck this summer sometime, and can get some kind of downpayment on the place for the landlord to hold it for you, maybe you could find some part time work up there to get you acclimated to the new area? A long commute for sure, but it could pay off in lessening your fears and making the transition easier.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress -- we're here to help :hug:


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm praying for you, Caitlyn. May the Lord help you stand!!!!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I have been super busy and cannot say a lot right now. I just saw this and want to add my encouragement. Things will work out. :hug:


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear! I have been away from the computer all day (moving the mother-in-law). I hate that you are having to go through this, but agree waiting until animals that are pre-sold sale, goats kid and truck /car insurance get in order sounds like the best bet. 

One thing I will suggest is to be very careful with debt. It would help build your credit if you got (guessing you don't already) a single credit card with a low limit. Put something on it but pay it all but a small amount each month. I had a very good financial adviser tell me that you need to carry some balance on the card to show that you have good credit (such as even just $10 unpaid). I know this sounds odd, but he told me if you pay it off in full then it does not show up on your credit record. If you do this for 6 months then pay that $10 off to where you have no balance on the card. If I remember what he said then this will show up for 6 months as good credit which helps when you need to get your power or water turned on. Most places charge different deposit fees for getting things connected but if you have good credit then you will either have a low deposit fee or no fee at all. 

If you are use to paying cash for everything then you will not have credit built up and fees will be higher. Also since you are so young your auto insurance will cost a bit more then us older individuals. You can check with some local offices to find the best service with best price. 

Any questions you have just ask. That sounds like a good option if that one place works out. Room mates can be helpful but you want to make sure they are safe and good people. Best wishes and if there is anything we can do from here let us know.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Caitlyn I wish things were easier for you  I know you are such a good person and such a smart, clever one as well! Sometimes I wish you lived in Texas, I would like to be closer to help. 

I agree w/the other poster that suggested getting a job sooner than later. If you can secure a job now, save and you will have security in the job when you move out. I realize you are moving 1 hour away--but maybe you could work somewhere that would allow you to transfer? Like I worked for Ablertson's Grocery store when I was in high school. When I went off to college they allowed me to transfer to an Albertson's in the town where I moved to go to school--so my job went with me! Maybe look for a company ot work for like that? 

I will be praying that things work out for you. I know once you get settled and have a place you will so wonderful and I think you will be so happy. Yes, a roomate would be a great idea--but like DDFN suggested make sure you know them well enough to know you will be comfortable with them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: ray: :thumb:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

These are all wonderful, wonderful tips! Thank you everyone! :grouphug: 

I did just remember a job opportunity yesterday, so I may look into that... We have some church friends who live five minutes away, and the husband farms 500 acres of land. Every year he lets some young folk from our church work for him so they can earn some extra cash while still be close to home. My brother did this a couple summers ago and that's how he bought his own truck. This gentleman pays $10 per hour and work days are usually Mon-Fri, and 8-9 hours a day. It's not so much of physically hard work as it's just long... He grows blueberries, grass seed and Christmas trees; so the work revolves around tending those (workers used to get to drive the combines, which I would so LOVE to do, but he doesn't allow it anymore). It wouldn't be a job I could "take with me" as y'all mentioned, but it would be really good pay that I could squirrel away. Monthly pay is about $2,240, and if I work there from June to August that would be a decent amount to start on, from my point of of view. And then there's still the extra money from my workshops and chickens/turkeys that are already pre-sold. That should be roughly another 4k-5k. And hey, maybe I'll get a book advance before the summer is out! That would help too! :wink: 

DDFN, I have absolutely no idea how to use a credit card... One thing that my parents HAVE taught me is how to stay out of debt and avoid it. They don't use credit cards, so I've never learned anything about that. I suppose that's one good thing about growing up in a big family: we all learn how to buy used, haggle, make our own, or do without. We've learned how to go without electricity, and by golly have we ever gotten good at conserving water... LOL. 

I doubt I would find anyone who would want to be a roommate (and who I was okay with sharing a house with!) but I'm okay with that. I'm a loner by nature (although I love good company!), and being solitary is something I am very used to. I don't think it'll be too bad in the end. If I do get the rent on the place I want, then I'll be 20 minutes away from my best friend (oh wait... only friend!). We only see each other 2-3 x's a year because we're so darn far from each other. But if we live just a hop away, that would be great! She's also a farming girl too, so I'm sure she would give me a hand if I needed it. 

Does anyone have any ballpark ideas on how much cash I should try and save up?? The rent for this place that I want is about $650 per month, but the landlord is very negotiable. Should I have a certain number of month's worth of rent saved up? Gosh I am so clueless about all this that it's not even funny...  But I am learning everything I can!


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

If you can do it try to always have 3 months of rent saved. Trust me this will not always be possible but that way if you loose your job you will not be as bad off and can still pay rent and have a little extra still saved until you get a job and get your 1st paycheck. I am horrible at saving my money but that is something I would like to start getting better at.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I am so sorry you are going through this. Caitlyn, I knew a young gal in your simular situation. Tensions escalated between the parents and her only they forced her out on her own with no place to go. She had the Lord to turn to. She was advised that at all costs to try and keep things open with her parents. I encourage you that when, if things work out for you to move out that you do it as peaceable as you possibly can which may not be possible but even so you will not regret keeping the relationship open with your parents. This gal decided after she moved out that she would come back for dinner once a week to visit her parents. Now the relationship is mended and they are so very close. I see them all together and it warms my heart as they all now have the Lord in their lives. It will take some time and energy and a lot of prayer to God for wisdom to know what to do and how to respond to situations. Sounds like it is impossible to move out right away so for now .. - work on what you do have control over and how to respond to your parents. You won't regret it later. things get hard, but keep them in your life. Life is just so complicated now days and so demanding on our young people. You are only responsible for how you react to bad situations. Some things are out of our reach to control. Keep learning, keep trusting and truly 99% of life ends up being about relationships... life is mostly relationships and I encourage you to take care of your self in a way least damaging to the relationship with your parents. You wont be able to always control what is said to you .. hang in there. Pursue right. I will say a prayer for you. Your are a wise young lady in so many ways already.


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## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

One thing I always heard was monthly income should be about 4x rent -- so basically one week's income should cover rent. Not always easy, especially in this economy, but it gives a nice ballpark to shoot for. One week's income for rent, one week's for utilities, insurance, vehicle maint, etc, one week's for groceries and fun money, and one week's for savings. Having said that, in my younger days, I've lived off much less and gotten by just fine.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I do have to add .. I know a lot of families that are of your same type of 'Ultra Conservative Christian Home' I am also a Christian but not on the legalistic side of it. I believe people need to make their own decisions to God. One thing I see in the legalistic approach to raising a family is how it causes great frustration and often can squelch a desire for personal relationships: first with God and 2nd with family. When there are so many unreasonable rules, it causes frustration. My biggest concern is this: You need to have your beliefs figured out to become your own beliefs and not your parents. Belief in God is the one and only thing personal that we truly can have that is ours only to keep. Know what you believe and why. Know why the Bible is trust worthy and know for yourself how to understand it. Know what is True and eternal. After you know these things and have tested your faith to be real.. everything will be easier. Anything your parents or anyone tells you has to line up to what is found to be True in God's Word. Even if they are wrong.. you still have to know the Truth about life. This will help you in all ways. There won't be so much confusion when you enter the big world out there that is laced with hefty opinions, opinions and opinions. You will know Who to listen to and what is True once you have tested your faith to be your very own. I used to ask? Why the Bible.. ? What is so big about the Bible.? I had to search out what makes this so authoritive.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

Good advise from both levels, Merry and Mandara farm.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I started reading from where I last posted then something hit me.......Your in Or. Im parents just bought 2 places in north cali. One is farm ground the other is I think 10acres with 3 houses and a shop with a apartment in it. I know they had talked about renting a few of the houses out, but right now they just stay in the one house when they are up there. If that is something you might want to do you are more then welcome to pm me. I totaly love it up there, the people are sweet and as far as you can see is more farm land. Let me know!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Hi guys, I'm sorry I haven't replied yet! :doh: I've been on TGS enough to read everyone's replies, and to post some silly stuff, but I haven't had the energy lately to get back to this thread... Between getting ready for all my meat chicks, and battling a cold, I am plumb tuckered out!

Roger, thank you for the tip on having 3 month's rent saved! That is exactly what I was wondering about, and it will be handy to know as I start planning/saving. 

Packhillboers, your advice is very wise and welcomed. One reason I decided to stay in OR (was originally thinking on heading east) is because I do still want to try and patch this family relationship up. I think once we have some space, and my parents get used to my being gone, things should start easing up a bit. That's my hope anyway. I won't deny the fact that last year I turned my back on God. Things were so hard that I couldn't bring myself to believe that the could be a God who demanded compliance to all the rules my parents laid down. So I put my hands over my ears and stopped listening. I knew I needed to go back to Him, but I had absolutely no idea how. Then the strangest thing happened: We know a few families (they're all related) who used to go to our church, but they left because they didn't agree with the legalism. My parents don't like them because they feel that these families aren't "Christian" enough. Last month however, one of the families needed me to come out and help their goat give birth (which I wrote about here on TGS). The goat ended up dying, but while I was there they really helped me out with my faith and helped me back on track in a much BETTER way. I won't say my faith is anywhere near perfect; it's still really rocky, but I am at least back on track...

Mandara! Excellent advice! Very handy for me to know now what I should try and budget each week for... Willow has been especially kind and has helped me figure out a monthly budget, so I am starting to get really excited about all this! :dance: 

Jessica84, I am so grateful for your kind offer! It's a tempting thought, for sure to set my eyes on CA instead of OR, but after some thinking, I think it's best if I stay here in OR for awhile yet. One reason is what I mentioned above, I'd like to stay close to family and see if things can't be patched up. And two, I'm starting up a raw milk dairy, so I should probably stick close to where my customers are.  Thank you for thinking of me, though! :hug:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I knew you most likely would want to stay some what close to family, and was not going to post about the house, but thought 'maybe she lives close to the line'. but you are very welcome.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Keep your chin up Caitlyn. If you have faith in God, He will provide for you. And not to put your parents down, but I don't believe legalism is real Christianity. I don't understand people who insist that you have to follow extremely strict rules (many of which THEY have decided on, not God). If they have ever really studied the bible they would realize that they are behaving exactly as the pharisees did...pretending to be Christian and hiding behind the laws of the bible...and Jesus condemned them as sinners destined for hell. We are saved by our faith and nothing we do on this earth can make a difference in whether we will go to heaven or not. We are not saved by our works, because no matter how many good things we do we will always be sinners and every sin is equal in the eyes of God. Does that mean we should say "Oh God, I believe I'm saved even though I'm a sinnner" and then proceed to murder people? Obviously not...but I believe legalistic Christians are not Christian. Most are judgmental and behave as if they are superior to others. They judge their neighbors when God has clearly told us we are not to judge other people and that only He has that right. These types of people give a false image of what a real Christian is and that leads many people to turn away from God because they believe religion is mean and terrible. Its sad.

Sorry to go off on a crazy tangent. And I'm certainly not saying your parents are not going to heaven or insinuating that they are bad people. Just trying to say that many of today's Christian laws imposed by parents, etc. are not God's laws...they are man made. And God knows what is in your heart. If you love Him and believe He died for you, you are saved. Period. So be happy and know it will work out for you. You are a sweetheart!

EDITED TO ADD: Gah, I can't get across what I'm trying to say....MANY legalistic Christians I don't think are even remotely Christian. Those ones practice Christianity and all their laws simply because they think the ought to, they were raised to, or they do it because it makes them look good to members of their society. They don't really care about God or their religion or try to have a real relationship with Jesus. Others who are super legalistic I simply believe have been taught to be so. They love God and are true Christians, but I think their conceptions of what God wants us to do (and how He wants us to treat others) are very skewed from what they should be. But then thats just my opinion and everyone has their own view of their (and other people's) religious beliefs.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Caitlyn, you have provided so much help on this forum to people with their goats. yes I do remember reading your forum in helping with that goat. I do have so many 'good' Christian friends who are into legalistic Christianity. I do believe most of them are christians but just somewhat misdirected with rules outside of the Bible. I still spend time with them, visit with them and encourage them. I know your parents are good people who do mean well for you and I know that you must love them very much and your family. Stay close to the heart of God and He will reveal His ways to you. He promises to make our path clear when we decide we want to follow His ways. Things are going to be better for you soon.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I agree with the 3 months of rent and expenses being put back. It really helped me out when I lost my job last year. You can never truly be completely ready but every thing you can do to secure your future will help. 

Well on religion and beliefs I can understand how even people in the same belief group can have different views (everyone is different and can even interpret things in a slightly different way). I am glad you are refinding yourself and it will be a difficult and trying road. I live in the Bible Belt so things down here may be a little different, but it seems all churches in our area are fighting over members (odd I know). I no longer associate myself with a certain church (such as southern baptist, primitive, independent etc) because of bad experiences in the church I was raised in. I loved everyone there and we had a great history but the Preacher changed (he left because of family stuff) and the new Preacher was very different. I went through a marriage and divorce and when I tried to return to my church after the divorce I was treated like I was the worse sinner on the face of the earth (they cast the first stone). This from a church family I had known all of my life and they knew the reason for the divorce and it did not matter since my ex-husband was a preachers son. I was told if he had been an unsaved soul then things could have stayed as they were (returning to a loving church family). Even though what they did (whether church family, in my case, or your parents) may not be right you still need the power to forgive them and not cast a stone. No one is perfect (well one is but He is not in question) and I live by the fact we should never hate anyone. We can dislike a lot but not hate. As long as you know in your heart you are loved and will be cared for then you will be unstoppable! 

In the short time that I have know you on here I can already tell you, you are an outstanding individual that will go far in life. I have the best wishes for you and hope things work out for the best. I know He understands when we have times away from Him (He knew it wasn't going to be easy for us), but He loves it when we come back and are made whole again. I hope these few words help and if you ever need anything just let us know. I may be half way across the states from you, but if you need us we are here for you!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I just wanted to poke this thread back up to the top real quick to share some news that I am tickled with! Wonder of wonders, I found a roommate to split rental costs with and of all people it's my very best friend!! :leap: :leap: She lives up in WA, so we don't get to see each other very often, but while she was down here in OR a few weeks ago, she mentioned that she wanted to move down here to OR next year, but was concerned about finding a roommate... I grinned and told her my plans, and before the day was over a deal was struck. :greengrin: 

I am SOOO excited!! I'll be spending the first year by myself, yes, but that's okay. I should have things figured out by the time she's ready to move, and things should go pretty smoothly. I think at this point we're going to split the farm/land 50/50 so we each can run things how we want and avoid any conflicts. Did I mention that I'm excited??? :wink: 

So that was all... I'm just so pleased with how that fell into place that I had to tell someone! :clap: :dance:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

That sounds like great news!


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

Yay! Sounds perfect! Hope you can manage $$$$ the first year. Good luck!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Congrats! I am a strong believer that everything happens for a reason. Best wishes and good luck!

Keep us posted.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

:leap: :clap: :thumb: :stars: :wahoo: That is great Caity! I'm so glad it worked out so well!!!
M.


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## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

What fantastic news! How exciting! And have you rented that big farm then? And when do you move in?

:stars: :stars: :stars:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Mandara Farm said:


> What fantastic news! How exciting! And have you rented that big farm then? And when do you move in?
> 
> :stars: :stars: :stars:


Haven't done any renting yet... I want/need to wait a bit longer before doing that, since once I do it my secret will be out and my family will know. I'm not ready for them to know just yet. Soon, but not yet... But my target "moving date" is between late August and early September! That's coming up right quick! :shocked:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Can I offer a bit of advice?

go on Craigs list (or that is what we have), post in there that you are moving out and you need dishes, pot pans and so on. Go to garage sales, GoodWill or where ever to get stuff you will need for your new place. I know a lot of people get excited and then forget about the basics. It is pretty pricy to get started, but when I see the adds for needing free items depending on who they are (single mother, college student) and so on, I donate things to them all the time. My daughter is in college and has been in her house for a year. I looked all over the Craigslist and found her all kinds of things. I PACKED my trailer and the back of my truck FULL. It had her bed, dressers, bathroom things, livingroom knick knacks, book shelves , kitchen table and chairs and so on. She has more "crap" then she needs. 
She was sharing with these three girls, they were like we will help get things, but what I had in my mind was what if she wanted to move out of the place I wanted her to be able to go someplace and have everything she needed. well they finally kicked one of the girls out 6 months in the lease and it was a good thing she did not supply things. It all stayed there.
The other advice is pray. give this to the lord and he WILL help you. I wear a ring that say Prov 3:5, Trust in the lord with all your heart. 
Good luck, and if it comes down to it, you have to leave the animals for YOUR safety. i would just reach out and give you a huge :grouphug: if I could. I Love my kids and they are great kids, so I would take you in anytime, it is sad when our kids are treated so bad, my heart just breaks for you.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yep i was gonna say exactly what lori said! Start collecting stuff now ... When i moved out i furnished an entire house for a hundred bucks, by collecting free things and going to garage sales etc


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Dec 14, 2009)

Well I read through our old thread and this one. I am so glad you have set a course and are sticking to it. I look forward to 'seeing' you test your wings.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Good luck! It will be hard at first but totally worth it in the long run!

I moved out of my parents house last year and moved 5.5hrs away to another state. Scary at first but you get the hang of things and they start going smoothly for you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep..what Lori said.... :wink: 

Congrats....  :leap: :clap:


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