# White "worms" in poo?



## bentmettle

Recently noticed what appear to be 1cm long white worm looking things in the poo of one of my goats.

I've looked and searched and have yet to see a picture of what this might be.

any hints? They were last wormed 2 months ago when I got them. My other goat is making nice round pellets; this one is a bit softer, so I'm more concerned that he may have an overgrowth of something in his stomachs...

I could post a picture I guess but ewwwww. *laugh*


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## Nanno

Those are tapeworms. I'd get both goats wormed right away. However, I'm not the expert when it comes to what the best type of wormer is for goats. My goat is an "only goat", so his exposure to worms is pretty limited. I just give him a dose of Golden Blend herbal goat dewormer about twice a year and he's always stayed very glossy and healthy. I don't know if that stuff is any good on tapeworms, though, so in this case I'd be contacting my vet for advice!


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## sanhestar

yes, that are tapeworms. You're lucky to have seen them because tapeworms in goats are hard to determine when they have taken hold.

Take a wormer containing praziquantel - other substances like ivermectin, albendazol, etc. are NOT effective against tapeworm.

The dosage is 3,75 mg Praziquantel per kilogramm (2 libs) bodyweight. Check the concentration of praziquantel in the wormer to determine how much of the wormer you must give. If there's a dosage noted for sheep or cattle, take twice this amount for a goat.


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## bentmettle

thanks for the confirmations-

I found "Safeguard Goat Wormer" at the Tractor store down the road. I've read it's possible it's not going to be effective due to possible resistance, but it was the only thing they seemed to have over than the Ivermectin, which I'd read wouldn't work anyway.

So, locally, I have this available
http://www.tractorsupply.com/equine/equ ... -g-5018765

I kind of want to wait a couple of days, though, and see if the Safeguard Goat Wormer works.

Is there anything I can do to the pen to slow reinfection down? It's obviously in the fecal material that's all over the place...I try to not really make them eat while thier in the pen, but if they get hungry in there, there is grass they'll niibble on.


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## sanhestar

Hello,

try to get the place cleaned.

Tapeworms need a second host for their development, in goat tapeworms (and sheep) it's a type of mite that lives in moss.

There's not much you can do against this mite, safe plowing everything under and let it grow again. But you can keep the infection rist lower when you wait until the dew has dried (the mites climb up on the grass when it's wet) before letting the goats out to browse.

Also, offer them more alternative food so that they aren't forced to eat grass (no mites on branches, etc.).

You may have to repeat the treatment in 4-6 weeks. AND clear all the fecal material that the goats will now drop to avoid that the mites get in contact with shed tapeworm eggs after the worming.


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## bentmettle

I usually am only home after work to let them out, so it should be dry by then. I'll have to figure out a strategy. It'd seem if the levels were high enough to see them like this, he's had them for a while, so maybe he picked them up earlier, before we moved out here.. (6 weeks ago)


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## sanhestar

tapeworms take about 3-4 months to fully develop.

Did they live with sheep before you got them? Sheep will often carry undetected tapeworms and as goats are more susceptible to worms than sheep they are a common source of infection.


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## bentmettle

didn't see any sheep there- bought them from a diary farm operation. All sorts of little goaties all over the place.

Woah, 3-4 months? They were born either in March or April ( I can never remember) so they're not even 6 months old yet. Sounds like they'd *have* to have been infected there?

The poo seemed a lot clearer today (I saw nothing in what I saw deposited). I gave him another snort of the Safeguard, and will hit him again with it tomorrow.


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## sanhestar

bentmettle said:


> I gave him another snort of the Safeguard, and will hit him again with it tomorrow.


Why that? Does it say repeat daily on the bottle?

Don't overdo worming, although quite safe in overdoses, this are chemical substances that can damage liver and nerve system.


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## bentmettle

Multiple (online) sources suggested that tapeworms need multiple treatments.

Things continue to look good. Heck he even seemed ok with the lead last night.

I'm thinking I'll consider them "cured" for the time being.


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## ashkelon

Tapes do usually take multiple treatments, but they have to be at the correct interval for them to work. I don't have a schedule handy, but I'd check with the vet.

Worming on the wrong interval is a waste of meds, and can be harmful to the animal. And the last thing I'd want is to breed up more resistand parasites by only killing of the ones that are "easy", by worming on the wrong schedule.

One other thing about tapes. They don't shed segments all the time, so fecal observation to determine if you "got 'em all" can be tricky. If you want them gone, you have to get rid of the other host, as sanhestar says. Breaking the cycle with the arachnid is the only way. Like getting rid of the fleas with dogs and tapes.

I know worms look "gross", and I'm not talking about sickly animals, but most healthy animals can and do carry a pretty good parasite load. Humans too. 

I, personally, don't worm on the rigorous schedule some vets demand. My vet and I are a little more relaxed with established, healthy animals. I'd rather feed a few parasites, as long as I can keep them in balance, than beat up my animal's liver and kidneys with routine low-level poisoning. We concentrate on the pasture, yard, and kennel issues that enable the worm's cycles.

But that's me, and YMMV. I have gotten many animals off the track for years who are carrying parasite loads no home owner would stand for. And they are in peak condition.


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## bentmettle

I'm in agreement with the general philosophy there- Ka (the little one with the issues) had gotten to the point where his stool was overly soft, if not full on diarrhea, so they were impacting him visibly and adversely.

It's fantastic to be able to get help for these sorts of things online - beyond this forum, there are a handful of other good websites I poke through.

Now to conquer hoof trimming and lead training


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## jross

My chickens share the pen with the goats. They are constantly scratching and hunting for things to eat. I have always assumed that they were performing a beneficial service, ie eating up bugs, eggs, and worms. Does anybody have any knowledge about that?

I don't worm my goats very often, just in early spring. I use a product called Positive Pellet, which looks like alfalfa pellets. A 5lb bag dumped into to their feeder is the proper dose for the 3 goats. They gobble it down immediately. The boys look sleek and healthy, so I guess it works. I had a fecal exam done by the vet once and he claimed they had no worms. Seemed a bit optomistic to me, but I'm no vet. Where I live it's quite dry, basically desert country, and I have heard that worms are much less of a problem in dry places. Knowledge from others would be appreciated.


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## ashkelon

We also have chickens everywhere. My landlord typically has about 1500 free range chickens on the place at a time. The roosters are all fancy, and set up territories, and our pasture supports 2 "factions". They add a lot of interest to the barnyard, watching them scavenge and squabble.

The thing I notice is the lack of flies. There are horses, longhorns, brahmas, goats, sheep, and a few pigs. And almost no flies, even when it's wet. I could almost count the bots we've seen this season, and usually the horses have a big problem with them.

I attribute that 100% to those busy hens. They are the most industrious animals I've ever been around. Fantastic predators. My Dad said 50 years ago that dinosaurs didn't die out, they are chickens -- and now I guess he was right. The are such opportunists, our hens caught a mouse the other day, and you should have seen them trying to steal it from each other!

I agree that they keep down the parasite load. This has been the best place I've been for parasite control. I hope I never have to board again without them.

I now sort of revere hens. Comical as all get out. They eat trash and vermin. And make yummy eggs and meat out of it. And all for a little grain the horses would waste, and shelter to make nests in. Awesome animals.

And I'm sorry to admit, at 50 years old, that I still get a kick out of using the hose to send 50 wet hens charging to ambush my buddy, Paco.


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## sweetgoatmama

The new FAMACHA parasite guidelines have the owner doing mor to develop a non-resistant parasite load in animals, which is a 180 from what the individual animal must be parasite free.

If you have parasite issues you should google this: FAMACHA and read up on all the new guidelines for controlling parasites. The experts now agree that there's no way to get rid of the strains of resistant parasites by nuking them. This is how the resistant populations got started in the first place, both from worming and antibiotics. We need to learn to coexist with them or we are doomed to fail.

Rachel and I went to clinic on it last year and it was really a different take on how things need to happen in the future so we don't end up completely overrun.


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