# Basic Dietary needs of a goat?



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Per the request of a user I am compiling a list of threads that have information that would be helpful for new goat raisers.

One of the suggestions was for "what to feed my goats" But I dont think we already have a thread dedication to this so I figured I would make one.


Please list the basic needs for a goat's diet and why and how to accomplish this (iie where to get it and brands you recommend etc).


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

A good quality hay is the first thing for ANY goat. Now different goat require different ty;es of hay. I prefere an orchard alfalfa mix for my milkers, growing kids tend to get more alfalfa and the bucks get the same as my does. I suppliment my does with alfalfa pellets. 
AS for grain i mix my own because i dont like all the extras and un known ingredients in pre mixed grains. A good mineral suppliment is order. I use purina goat mineral. 
Browse is also important. Make sure no toxic plants are around though. 
beth


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Sparks covered the basics, I'll just add that it would be best to check out goat farms in your area to see where they get their hay and feeds, this way you'll know what is readily available to you.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Also, Goats should NOT be fed sheep grain. It does not have copper in it and can/will cause copper deficiency.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Goats do better with a loose mineral instead of a mineral block.

Loose minerals I recomend are: Purina goat minerals, Top Choice - by Southern States, Golden Blend, Sweetlix meat maker

Check your local feed stores for what brands they carry and sometimes you can have them special order the minerals if they carry the brand. 


Hay should be their main diet with grain being a supplement especialy for pregnant or lactating does. Young kids should get grain as they grow but if you dont plant to ever breed you can cut out grain almost if not entirely from their diet around a year old. 

Wethers dont need grain -- this can possibly lease to UC (urinary calculi- ie kidney stones) in some wethers.

If you own wethers or bucks I suggest feeding a grain and/or mineral that has Ammonium Chloride in it (AC for short). You can also purchase AC from hoeggars goat supply and its a really cheep insurance to have handy. The instructions for use are provided when you purchase it.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Okay, I am really new to goats...I've owned my girls about a week! But here is what I've learned in school (I'm pre-vet, equine science), internet research, books, and on here (of course!).

Hay - if your goats aren't on a pasture they need hay. A nice green pasture of mostly alfalfa with some grass (such as timothy/orchard) is great. But I don't have that, so I feed my goats the same alfalfa hay I feed my horses. It is high protein and very leafy. My goats like to dip their tongues in the leaves then eat those rather then chew the stems  How we feed is important too. Goats like to eat off bushes and such, rather then off the ground. Plus they will usually just "go" where they are standing - even if they are eating. So, parasite infestation could occur more easily. I feed in a feeder mounted on my fence line with a grate to keep the hay from going all over. 

Minerals: its been mentioned that the loose minerals are better then the blocks. I agree - the loose have higher levels of copper and selenium which are both necessary for optimal health in goats. I am currently trying Sweetlix, but will evaluate other brands in time. Free choice.

Baking soda, free choice again. I haven't yet learned the benefits of this supplement, but I offer it based on many suggestions. 

Yeast - not vital, but encourages bacteria growth in the rumen. I have not tried this, don't plan too either. 

Grain - not needed for whethers (as mentioned, increases the chance of kidney stones). Good for pregnant and nursing does, but when given too much early on in pregnancy does can grow bigger kids so go easy to start. In moderation of bucks as well. Great for kids until you've determined if you want to breed them, not needed if they'll be raised as pets. I am currently trying Purina Goat Chow and next will try Manna Pro to decide which I like more. these are the only two brands readily available to me (without having to ship). 

Water - always free choice clean fresh water! 

Not sure if I said anything that hasn't been said, but it's all good stuff to know!


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Wanted to ad an update: baking soda encourages balance in the bacteria in the rumen. Thus, we offer it free feed. Also, it's good to feed when goats are having stomach issues like signs of bloat. Should be balled up; with water like paste and force fed in emergencies.


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## CrossCreekTX (Aug 10, 2009)

If you have a good balance of pasture and browse you may not have to buy feed. Do watch the condition of the pasture and rotate the goats between paddocks. I like to take mine for a walk daily so they can choose optimal feed and take some of the pressure off the paddock. They are pretty fat without additional grain or hay. Of course they swear they will starve if they can't get to the chicken feed. LOL


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## farmergal (Jun 19, 2009)

I currently feed my pregnant does and doelings alfalfa in the morning (enough to last until the afternoon), plus a handful per goat of a combination of grain (the goat chow I use is by Manna Pro) and black oil sunflower seeds. The ratio isn't too scientific -- I currently use 6 handfuls of grain and 2 of BOSS, mix it together, and feed it to the goats.

Then, in the afternoon, they get an oat/rye/orchard combination hay to munch on. If I'm not going to be home in the afternoon, I put it all together and leave them plenty to last the whole day. But I've found that if I feed the alfalfa and oat/rye together, the goats tend to waste a lot more hay since of course they prefer the alfalfa leaves to everything else! And then suddenly my pasture shelter is 2 feet deep in wasted grass hay. What can you do? :shrug: 

I also supplement this feed with bits from the garden -- they love old broccoli plants and cabbages, leafs of kale and chard, and pumpkins. Recently they enjoyed trimmings from our Doug Fir Christmas Tree (why is it that trees always look smaller at the farm, and so much bigger in your living room? the one I picked was 2 feet too tall!). They also have free choice Purina goat minerals. I haven't noticed any bloat issues but if I do I'll start putting out free choice baking soda too.

I am very interested in mixing my own grain, which someone mentioned. If anyone mixes their own grain I would love to hear about it on this thread -- what ratios you use, etc! 

(Disclaimer -- I've only had my goats for half a year, so take this with a grain of salt! But, all my girls seem to be healthy and happy with nice shiny coats so it seems to work for me, so far.)


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## sealawyer (May 31, 2009)

As a commercial (?) breeder of 90+ Boers and Boer X I have to think about the cost of inputs. Will seeding for forage be more cost effective than feeding? In my case, yes, so we seeded with austrian winter peas and purple topped turnips to provide winter forage and don't mow or spray the rye grass and clovers until after the seed heads have opened. We use a weed killer that will not kill off certain plantings such as bahia grass and sericea lespedeza and bermuda grass, our primary summer pasture grasses. A 50 lb. sack of cargill onyx or emerald cow mineral is cheaper by the pound than sweetlyx meat maker, so we use that and our goats gobble it up! And it has more copper and selinium than SMM. Many say that the crystalyx goat tubs aren't cost effective, but it helps the goats' rumens process the stuff they eat due to the added yeasts and bacterium, so they do process what they eat better. We feed the bucks a balanced goat kibble, Pilgrim's Show Pro 17% and mineral and tub. We feed the nannies w/kids Acco Boer & Meat Goat, which is 16%. Right now the nannies without kids get hay, tubs, mineral during the day plus whatever they can forage. They get whole cottonseed free-choice when they come into the pens at night. Do not feed WCS to kids because their rumens aren't developed enough yet!
The WCS will keep the nannies fat and slick all winter, just be ready to do a lot of shoveling and toting!


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

Well it looks like you have good info here. I will list my mix for folks. This is for a MEAT breed but can be modified for dairy. I do know horses can eat this but I do add my mineral which you would not want in with horses.


The feed looks like this... 

500lbs Chipped corn 
350lbs Oat Pellets 
150lbs Soybean MEAL (Great for protein) 
100lbs Wet Molasses 
8lbs Salt (Double in the summer 16lbs) 
17lbs Calcium 
35lbs BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) -- Needed in ALL goat feed for selenium. You will never see Floppy kid syndrome with this in your feed.
Other reasons Boss is good, 

The BOSS is good for many things..
1. The roughage they get off the shells
2. The oils they get from them are good for the hair coats
3. The proteins they get out of the entire seed/shell
4. The Natural Selenium that they contain
5. The added assistance of being a part of the natural worming process. (doesn't mean that they won't get worms, because they will, but research shows that they are good to help prevent worms).
6. Added weight when weight is needed.

50lbs Soybean Hulls (Great for Fiber)
35lbs Goat Mineral (Which has the Copper needed in Goats)
4lbs ammonium chloride (Very Important for farms with boys, this will keep from having the stones and urinary problems that can come with any feed) 
Vitamins A,D, and E (Very Important...)

Fast Track is another good thing to add to any diet. More so on goats trying to bounce back or get some weight but works wonders to help digestion and help the body absorb the nutrients it is take in. This often results in feeding less food as your goats will not need as much food. We here at Gray Robin Ranch go on and off of this to make sure the goats are at the weight I like them to be at.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

We give all of our goats grain no matter what gender or what they are missing in breeding wise. Our wethers get grain. I have a 3 year old wether who has been on grain all of his life and he has no problems whatsoever.

We feed a low quality twiggy, leafy grass hay that has some timothy in it. We give about a half a bale a day to feed 12 goats on in the field. They are on about an acre and half of grass that is short right now.

My feed mix contains

100lbs Mare and Foal horse feed
100lbs KH medicated goat feed
10lbs Black Oil Sunflower Seeds
25lbs Cracked corn
20lbs Whole corn
And wet mollases which im not sure how much...
We also buy Manna Pro Goat Balancer and give each goat 1oz in their grain.
We sprinkle baking soda and sweetlix loose mineral into the grain also.

Along with that, like jdgray, we feed Fastrack which is a Microbial feed supplement powder. But we feed it everyday and mix it in with the grain we are feeding that day.

1oz for pregnant and nursing does
.50oz for nonnursing or pregnant does
.25oz for bucks, kids, and wethers


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## ENC (Jan 3, 2010)

I use good quality hay and my feed is a 6:3:1 mix of goat chow, cracked corn and BOSS. I will also give all fruit and vegetable peelings that I have from that day. 

Evan


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

How much pasture is needed per goat in the summer to NOT need to supplement with hay? Specifically a standard-size dairy goat?


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

Rule of thumb is 8 goats an acre. Keep in mind this also depends on what you have on your acre for forage. Goats are not grazers, though they will graze as they are animals of survival. The breed will play a role too as dairy in milk will eat more then a meat goat, a doe with kids will eat more, and so on. Hope that helps.


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

Yes, it does help.
Thanks! :hi5:


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## Rogersfarm (Jan 24, 2010)

What about the medicated goat feed that they sell at feed stores? Is that safe to feed to Bucks, Does, and Wethers? I was told that the medication was to prevent UC, but will it hurt to feed them that all the time?

And what other dietery needs do I need to be meeting seperately, that the medicated goat feed doesnt meet. Other than hay of course.

And I dont know if it matters of not, but I am refering to Pygmy/Nigi mixes.


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## ENC (Jan 3, 2010)

As far as I know the medication in the feed is to prevent Coccidiosis not UC, but I know several who feed it all the time. 

Evan


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

are you goats under 6 months old? if not then medicated feed it not necessary for them. Medicated feed jsut like Evan said is for coccidia. Some medicated feed will also have Ammonium Chloride in it to aid against UC

Your best bet if you have bucks or wethers is to buy AC from like hoeggars supply and add it to their feed or their minerals.

Top CHoice goat mineral by Southern States has the AC in it already. 

You need hay - grass hay will do just fine or a grass mix - and a good loose mineral for you goats. See my post on page one for the listing of minerals

if you have any other questions submit a new topic and ask those specific questions. That way this stays as information only thanks :thumb:


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

StaceyRoop said:


> Please list the basic needs for a goat's diet and why and how to accomplish this (iie where to get it and brands you recommend etc).


Well, hay is the first basic need. But one has to be careful what type of hay is being fed, and when it being fed - for example, alfalfa contains a high amount of calcium and can interfere with the does ability to produce calcium. It is also easily digestible, carries a high protein content, and is tantamount to flushing a doe with grain if the hay is high quality. If fed throughout the year, it can not only cause milk fever when she kids, it can also cause first time doelings to have a higher number of kids than they can support - depending on when one breeds their first timers. Feeding straight grass hay, on the other hand, can cause ketosis and pregnancy toxemia due to the lower protein, lower digestibility, and lack of energy. If one chooses to go this route, it probably should be supplemented with a little grain - say 1/2 lb or so, once a day - depending on whether one is raising meat goats or dairy goats. Mineral is very important, and should be supplied in a loose form and free choice. I personally would not go with any mineral that contains salt at more than 10-15% because salt is often used as a limiter in feeds and can prevent the does from getting all the mineral they need. I use Sweetlyx MeatMaker mineral and my does love it. If in doubt that they are getting enough salt, put out a seperate tub of plain old salt and see how much they eat. I also have a problem with mineral and salt blocks, because the does do not get what they need because of the amount of licking required. Loose mineral and loose salt is always better. Another thing to be aware of is that goats need extra copper, and the potasium/calcium ratio needs to be 2 to 1. Oh - another thing - don't feed bucks straight alfalfa hay because the calcium in it tends to cause urinary calculi. My bucks get alfalfa only a few weeks prior to breeding, during breeding, and for a few weeks post breeding to help get them back in shape as I don't feed grain. This is what I've learned, and I hope it helps.


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## farmgirl42 (Jan 3, 2010)

StaceyRoop said:


> Goats do better with a loose mineral instead of a mineral block.


I use MannaPro loose minerals to supplement. Copper level is so good that I have seen a couple of does begin the rebound from copper-deficiency even without bolusing of copasure.

(Good thing, too, because this is the only "goat-specific" mineral supplement available in my area...)


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

GoatCrazy said:


> Another thing to be aware of is that goats need extra copper, and the potasium/calcium ratio needs to be 2 to 1.


Actually is calcium to phosphorous needs to be 2-1 - yes more calcium to phosphorous,

UC develops when this balance is upset

I learned recently that if you feed a alfalfa hay to buck you can do this BUT you need to feed grain so that there is a balance of phosphorous for all that calcium.

If you feed straight grass hay do not feed grain because if you do you have more phosphorous and not enough calcium.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

StaceyRoop said:


> GoatCrazy said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing to be aware of is that goats need extra copper, and the potasium/calcium ratio needs to be 2 to 1.
> ...


That is also interesting. Due to the protein content of alfalfa, I wouldn't think the goats would need grain. Grass hay carries a much lower protein content, so I would think it would be necessary to supplement with grain in order to make sure their nutritional needs are met. It seems that the exact opposite is true, though. Very interesting!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

for most goats they can get away with just hay and a good loose minerals

but if you want a good producing doe - kids or milk - then she needs that grain for the proper nutritional balance and upkeep


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## CrockettsLastStand (Apr 1, 2010)

Mine are fed Blue Seal Meat Goat Grow & Finish Medicated mixed with Sweet Coarse 14. Every other day their feed is top dressed with Manna Pro Goat Mineral and Probios probiotic powder and a handful of Manna Pro Goat Treat.

They're fed hay, although I have no idea what kind it is, I just get the bale at the feed store.. 

I lost a goat on Monday due to urinary calculi so am reading everything I can on feeding because I want to avoid this from ever occurring ever again, although I believe chicken scratch to be the cause because the night before symptoms showed up the goats got into a 5 gallon bucket of it and it's mostly cracked corn, and corn as you know is very high in phosphorous. They were also given black sunflower seeds as treats prior to this, so will never do that again either because these are also high in phosphorous.

I need to change how I feed them and am contemplating on eliminating grain from their diet so as to avoid complications such as UC, Bloat, CD, etc as it appears to me that many health concerns with goats are related to feeding, but my goats are young, so I need to make sure they develop and grow, get adequate nutrition, etc.

I don't have pasture and they don't get to browse because the area they're fenced in has no vegetation growing other than a few small patches of grass growing and they don't eat it.. I do cut branches off trees and put them in there.. They like some trees leaves and not others.. I try to give them leafy vegetables, but they so far refuse them.. I tried several veggies and they won't touch them, however, they go wild over raisins and watermelon..


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

To try and remedy for UC prevention, leave the mineral out Free Choice it having AC in it is a plus, and you can feed them grain...just enough to keep the young boys growing, for Carrot, being a nigi he should get 1/2 cup am and pm, with Storm being a nubi, he should get 1 1/2 cups am and pm and they should have a hay rack full at all times with no browse available. Check and see what kind of hay it is...mixed grass or timothy is good for wethers, you can also get Blue Seal hay stretcher pellets...they are a mixed ratio of timothy, alfalfa and mixed grass hay.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

How many times a day do you feed your goats and ho much do you feed them?


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Right now I've got my goats on a scoop of 50% alfalfa pellets and 50% whole oats each with timothy/oat hay (that they still won't eat) and browse. I've also got a loose cattle mineral (8% phosphorous, 30m-something of copper) free-choice AND a 4lb cattle block with less copper (they like playing with it, so I keep buying it).

My question is, is this good? What needs to be changed, and what's the cheapest route (I've only got 3 goats, and my feed bills are about $50-60 per month, not counting hay)? Both does are pregnant, too.


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Okay a friend of mine bought a huge bag of biotin for his horse. He won't use it all before it goes bad. Can goat's have biotin and is horsey biotin the same as goat biotin???


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay hopefully I am not too wrong here with what I am doing. I have a pregnant nubian doe and nubian wether.

I feed first cutting alfalfa with lots of weeds (free feeding)
The doe: 1 cup C.O.B. in morning and 1 cup evening with a sprinkle of boss
The wether: 1/2 cup C.O.B. with 1/2 cup boss morning and evening
I sprinkle 1/2 teaspoon AC in the morning feed

purina goat mineral, white and brown salt block and sweet mix

My doe is almost two months along. The reason I was feeding grain to my doe was she was heavily loaded with worms when I got her and she has always been on the thin side. My wether is starting to put on too much weight so I need to start cutting him back. I just haven't figured out how to feed her grain and not him.


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## LuckytohaveFarm (Feb 22, 2011)

> <<<<<for example, alfalfa contains a high amount of calcium and can interfere with the does ability to produce calcium. It is also easily digestible, carries a high protein content, and is tantamount to flushing a doe with grain if the hay is high quality. If fed throughout the year, it can not only cause milk fever when she kids, it can also cause first time doelings to have a higher number of kids than they can support - depending on when one breeds their first timers. >>>>


Not exactly true. The biggest cause of nearly all metabolic disorders (milk fever, bloat, preg. toxemia) is inconsistent feeding. A change in routine in their feed. Changing from one feed class to another (alfalfa to grass or grass to alfalfa) too quickly, abrupt feed changes (break into grain room), not feeding enough calories for energy output (multiple fetuses, heavy production, etc.). Almost like clockwork, you can find an precipitating event that led to the illness: storm, late for feeding, change feed, tried a new product, etc.

We have fed straight alfalfa for 30 years and have only had one case of milk fever. The biggest myth in the goat world is that feeding straight alfalfa year-round causes milk fever. We haven't found that myth to be true.



> <<<<< Oh - another thing - don't feed bucks straight alfalfa hay because the calcium in it tends to cause urinary calculi. My bucks get alfalfa only a few weeks prior to breeding, during breeding, and for a few weeks post breeding to help get them back in shape as I don't feed grain. This is what I've learned, and I hope it helps.


Another myth in the goat world is that alfalfa causes urinary calculi. Again in 30 years of feeding alfalfa, we only had one UC case. After we lost the buck, we found out that his entire male ancestry had also died of UC. In his case, he had a genetic propensity for a narrow ureter. If UC has occurred on your ranch, you should explore your water source first. Certain minerals in your water might be causing more cases. Either by too high a particular mineral that is the agent of stones or a particular mineral that interferes with the absorption of another which would have prevented the stones. Then look at your incoming feedstuffs (hay, grain, mineral mix). Some UC is genetics (narrower ureter), some UC is early castration causing an immature ureter, some UC is water based or feedstuffs based. Also, UC stones are varied. If you have a buck or wether with UC, see if you can get a sample of the stones analyzed. It will give you an idea of where your ration might be unbalanced.

Now, that said. My girls get Alfalfa in the feeders (yearround), grain on the stand (milking only), and Elm tree branches (yearround) & Kochia weed pulls (spring/summer).

Whether you feed straight alfalfa, alfalfa-grass mix, grass only, pasture & hay, sudan hay, pea hay, clover hay, or elephant grass etc.; the key to success is to keep consistent on feeding routines. Slowly add in new feeds, keep schedules relatively normalized, etc.

IMHO,

Jillian McIntosh
Luckytohave Farm
Oregon


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## LuckytohaveFarm (Feb 22, 2011)

CrockettsLastStand said:


> I lost a goat on Monday due to urinary calculi so am reading everything I can on feeding because I want to avoid this from ever occurring ever again, although I believe chicken scratch to be the cause because the night before symptoms showed up the goats got into a 5 gallon bucket of it and it's mostly cracked corn, and corn as you know is very high in phosphorous. They were also given black sunflower seeds as treats prior to this, so will never do that again either because these are also high in phosphorous.
> 
> I need to change how I feed them and am contemplating on eliminating grain from their diet so as to avoid complications such as UC, Bloat, CD, etc as it appears to me that many health concerns with goats are related to feeding, but my goats are young, so I need to make sure they develop and grow, get adequate nutrition, etc.


What was the timeline from breaking in to the grain area to losing your boy to UC? If they broke in and ate 5 gallons of chicken scratch and were sick the next day, I wouldn't think that would be the cause of UC. Two things do come to mind: 1) acidosis (grain overload) which causes the runs and because of the over production of bad bacteria in the gut, a toxin is released which cause the animal to stretch and cry out <think big belly ache>. Starts a downward spiral of entero. If left untreated, they died horribly. Treatment would be CD Antitoxin given IV (depending on size of goat, 15-45cc) & scour halt. 2) Impaction. Chowing down on corn grain mix (scratch is mostly corn) without stopping to drink or digest causes their stomachs to impact with the grain mix. Nothing moves down the digestive track. It turns to near cement in their stomach. Only cure is surgery (usually without a good outcome).

In 24hours, consumption of grain couldn't have created a stone quickly enough, unless he died weeks/months later. I don't know the history behind your loss except for what is in this post. Stone formation takes several weeks to months.

Sorry you loss your guy. :hug:

Jillian McIntosh
Luckytohave Farm


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## Patches (Mar 2, 2011)

:wave: Well, I'm a newbie...Haven't even got my Nigerian dwarfs sisters as yet...Waiting until they are approx. six weeks, and hoping to bottle feed...I sure do appreciate everyone listing their grain mixes...However, I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to mix for Just two baby dwarfs... :? Has anyone reduced these recipes to an amount that I can handle? :hair: Would appreciate any help in this regard...


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

That is what causes most of the confusion I personally think. You have to know what breed of goat your reading about before you can use the info on feeding your specific breed. The age of goat, male or female that is lactating or pregnant, and of course breed. I still find it confusing now that I am feeding a pregnant doe that just turned a year old.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Another myth in the goat world is that alfalfa causes urinary calculi.


I have to disagree...you most likely have ...the feed ratio adjusted right... as to why ...you have no issues..... UC can happen ... if the ratio... is not quite right.... :wink:


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## kneilandrew (Apr 3, 2011)

is it common for a doe with a 2month old kid not to drink plenty of water? Im getting worried about her. Shes just sipping some liquid and shes done. :imnewhere:


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## WEPEEPS (Apr 1, 2011)

I feed orchard grass/alfalfa 80/20 because my old man Noble (35yo Arab) only has 7 teeth. He needs very soft, very rich hay. So racehorse hay it is. I treat nightly with a little bit of sweet, oats and beet pulp. Other than that my goats free range. I give free choice baking soda and minerals. Everyone does fine on it. But my favorite buck bloated several times (lots of vet bills) and finally succumbed to bloat. I do not understand what happened.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

Is bloat cause by overfeeding, changing feed suddenly?


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## WEPEEPS (Apr 1, 2011)

I know bloat can be caused by too much grain. My best boy, Honey Dot, succumbed to bloat 2nd to breaking into the feed.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

I have Nigerians and live in the city. we have no pasture access. I fed manna pro grain (unmedicated) mixed with sweetfeed 50/50 with a handfull of BOSS each until breeding season. I reduced the grain to a handfull with a handfull of BOSS with plenty of Orchard Grass/ Timothy Hay (some clover, no alfalfa) while does were pregnant. We increased grain slowly during the end month 3 of pregnancy and decreased just a bit toward the end. During the last 6 weeks we also divided their feedings into 3 per day (easy since we live in the city and goats are 20 feet away, lol...) so they would be comfortable. They get MannA Pro Minerals. Can't find much baking soda, so they only get it when they need it.

Now that they are milking, we have upped the grain and the boss and added alfalfa pellets (this way they don't pick through their hay.) I feed 1/2 grain, 1/4 BOSS and 1/4 Alfalfa pellets on the milkstand...probably a bit too much, lol., about 2 cups full...but we're taking a quart a day from them in milk and they are feeding kids. Kids are all bucklings...soon to be wethers. They are just beginning to mouth grain. We will be giving them their "ration" while mommas are in the milking area so we can regulate intake. I am also waiting to castrate until week seven.


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## beautancus (May 24, 2011)

I have 8 boer goats all of which are doing great on the 3 acres of wood lands, for which they were bought to clean out for me. I feed them medicated goat feed as a supliment every few days. these goats are very healthy and thriving. My problem is with my two male goats bought from a dairy farm at 2 weeks old. Ive raised them from a bottle and I think because they have never lived in a real heard they just dont know how to eat like normal goats. They are 5 months old now and eat only the leaves that are in the woods. they just will not eat any kind of feed what so ever and I have rairly seem them drink any water. Do they get the h2o they need from live vegitation ? These two look to me as mama and after nearly a month and a half havent been accepted into the heard, I was hoping that they would be able to learn from them. OK , I know Ive drifted off track here but if anyone out there has some wisdom to share with me on this Id surely appreciate it ...THANKS YALL


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I am sure they get some H2o from vegetation but wouldn't think enough.
What about taking them by the bucket and gently splashing the water to perk their interest?
They don't need grain but they need plenty of water.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

When mine eat certain stuff they dont drink much water,morning grass and leaves have dew on them,they get a lot of water from that,not to mention whats in the vegetation itself.It was 95 here yesterday,and out of 14 goats they never drank 5 gallons of water.They were in a good pasture all day that was pretty shady.Today they drank more than 5 gallons,they were in the sunny pasture and eating grass and wheat hay that is pretty dry.Pull the skin up on their back,if it flexes right back into place they are getting enough to drink.If it stays in the shape that you pulled it or slowly flexes back,they are dehydrated.


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## beautancus (May 24, 2011)

Ive tried splashing water and cupping some in my hand and rubbing it on their lips but with no luck. The pinch test I havnt heard of that one, im gonna try it ..thanks


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## hugame (May 23, 2011)

so wethers shouldn't have any grain at all? Even young wethers?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

My kids wethers included get grain until about 1 yr old. 
If you have wethers I would get AC and top dress it on the feed or get a feed with it in it. It will help prevent Urinary Calci.


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## hugame (May 23, 2011)

Is AC = Activated Charcoal


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

No it is Amonium Chloride (that may be spelled wrong). 
It can be bought in a powdered form by itself to topdress food. It also is a ingredient in some minerals and feeds.


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## hugame (May 23, 2011)

Thanks


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## copper905 (May 27, 2011)

How much should grain should you feed to young wethers?

Till how old?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Wether kids here get a creep feeder til they are either leaving or 3 months old...after that I advise giving 1/2 to 1 cup a day til a year old, and always with a loose mineral with added AC freechoice, after a year old, the grain they get tends to make them fat instead of helping them grow.


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## Patches (Mar 2, 2011)

*Re: corn, passion flower vine, and acacia tree*

:whatgoat: Gosh...All this time, I understood that corn was bad for goats...I have two Nigerian sisters...I won't let them out of their section when I give the chickens cracked corn...They are six months and have never had corn...

I have question on Passion flower vine and Acacia tree, also...We have plenty here in Florida...Are they OK for goats???...Also, Florida Pepper tree...If anyone lives in Florida, can you please let me know what Florida trees they can eat?...Thanks


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## Patches (Mar 2, 2011)

Just wish that someone in Florida would have been able to answer my post...Also, wish someone would explain to me as to how to post a new topic...I can't seem to find the click on "Post new topic"...Thanks, anyway...Patches


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

this might be a little late but if you look under the title of the board you are viewing it says new topic,go back to goat management page and look under "Goat Management" its a tab there for new topics.


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## Patches (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks a lot, Steve...I couldn't get there with the other directions...I'll try it your way...Appreciate it...Patches


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Here is just one list of edible and poison plants. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm
Hope that helps.

Corn is ok for goats in moderation (like everything) but if you are throwing your chicken cracked corn on the ground you don't want the goats to go eat it. Eating off the ground is gateway to a host of issues with worms, cocci and other bacteria.


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## poprocksandPEZ (Jan 9, 2012)

For the crude protein in grain, anywhere from 12-16% is good right?


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## Valjero (Feb 18, 2012)

Hi Farmergal. I read you post and many others. My husband found a home blend mix online Here are the amounts: 6 parts rolled barley, 4.5 parts rolled oats, 2.5 parts rolled corn and 1.5 parts soybean pellets. I haven't tried this yet as we just found this a couple of days ago, but plan to. I hope this might help. -Valerie hlala:


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## pastrychef (Mar 22, 2012)

:laugh: 

I have had a goat but, it was maybe 10 years ago.( toggenburg) But i just bought 3 pygmy goats. They are young. 1 little girl and 2 boys, boys are neutered and the girl i don't plan on breeding fora year or 2. 
What is the best thing to feed them? other than hay....or should i feed them any grain?

(iam new to the goat forum, so if i posted this wrong or in the wrong spot i apologize) 

thanks.
susie


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi susie... depending on the age of your pygmies, I'd suggest they get some type of high protein well balanced feed until they are a year old...a half cup twice a day should suit them along with free choice hay and a loose mineral.


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## myhorsehawkeye (May 3, 2011)

I am going to guess you have nigi's. My milkers get 2lbs of alfalfa pellets a day (per goat) mine waste the alfalfa hay!! They get free choice timothy hay, free choice minerals (brand is sweetlix), free choice baking soda. The grain mix they get is 20% Beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, saflower seeds, sunflower seeds, whole oats, whole barley, and a sel E suplement. My bucks get grass hay and 1-2 cups of the grain mix every other day.


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## iluvgoats (Apr 10, 2012)

My goats do't have a lot of forage, mostly grass and weeds that they love. They get sweet feet, coastal and alfalfa. Their poop is in clumps and I don't know how to correct that. They are kids so only 4 months old and we just brought home a 1 month old last night that will be on the bottle in addition to grain and what he can get in the way of forage. Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## donnabair (May 8, 2012)

I just got a 10 week old wether nigerian dwarf goat a week ago and he was being fed grain and alfalfa hay.

After I read about wethers not supposed to have much grain or much alfalfa, I am feeding him mostly timothy hay.

However, his belly seems to be really big! He keeps eating as much as I give him and I keep cutting back.... but he is acting like he can't get enough to eat.

I have given him water and baking soda.

Can anyone help me and tell me about how much hay I should feed him per day and if it's once or twice a day?

Thanks!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wethers can get grain and alfalfa as long as the grain as Ammonium Chloride in it. You want the balance of Calcium to Phosphorous to be 2:1 

Grain is necessary for proper growth of kids in my opinion for the first year of their life. 10 weeks is to young to cut out grain. 

I feed my kids twice a day


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Stacey is very right. keep the ratio 2:1 and make sure he gets plenty of water and some AC and he should be much happier 
M.


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## boogiensqueak (Apr 29, 2012)

Im very new to goats. I have two pygmy/dwarf crosses. Im trying to learn all I can about caring for them. They are my pets,no meat,no dairy,no showing. They are just 3 months old. I give them a very small amount of grain in the morning with fresh water and 1 flake of hay in afternoon with fresh water. I let them graze but only a little bit as I dont have a fenced in yard yet so they graze in the dogs yard. Its very large and not covered with poop. Im not sure how much minerals I should feed them (or baking soda). I made the feeding tubes for the minerals and the bc but do I just free feed the two of them. Just fill up the feeders and keep an eye on them? The local vet has cancelled on me three times and has not called back since. Thanks for any help you might give me.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes minerals and baking soda are left out free choice. This means they can eat at their own choosing


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## NigerianGirl (Jan 30, 2011)

i recommend keeping calf mana on hand just a sprinkle mixed in with kid feed helps keep weight on them and half a cup for full grown goats a day helps keep weight on the dairy goats while helping with the production too


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## Shellshocker66 (Mar 19, 2012)

So would like some input on my feeding program.

I currently have a mixed group of 10 goats, Largest is a Mini Nubian at about 75lbs and she in milk because her almost 7 month old son continues to drink from her (we joke that he will be in college and still milking off momma)

Then I have a 2 pregnant does due around August/September (both came already bred), one is a mixed breed pygmy and the other a small Nigerian.

4 doe kids (3 are about 4 months old) with one under 3 weeks and not yet on grains (Pygmy and Nigerians).

1 Nigerian who has the almost 3 week old doe kid

1 Male Nubian/Nigerian cross (3/4 Nubian and 1/4 Nigerian) who looks like he is going to be a very large boy and is wethered.

1 Male buck Nigerian

So I have "clicks" within my goat herd as the Nubian and her son have to be fed together or they won't eat.

My alpha Pygmy who has to be fed solo due to issues with food aggression.

My Nigerian gals that like to eat together and don't like hay but they love to forage and have 5 acres to do so in.

And then the buck is a chow hound who will make sure he eats the whole bowl so once again another solo feeder.

So I have 5 acres of pasture and brush. I leave out free feed grass hay (good quality from local feed store) and feed the following grain mixture 2x a day.

Purina goat chow
BOSS
Shredded beat pulp
Alfalfa Pellets
And top it off with goat minerals that are made by the local feed mill.

I also have a few sheep so I have a sheep safe mineral block out in the pasture, a salt block, and keep a goat specific mineral blocks in the separation pens for feeding/night time.

After reading a few posts I'm thinking of adding in some Calf Manna.

I need to add some AC for the wether which I keep forgetting to pick up when I go into town but wondering if it will hurt his Mom who insists on eating with him? I plan on breeding her this fall.

I'm feeding about 15 cups of grain per day split among all 10 goats, which is primary the goat chow and the alfalfa pellets with the BOSS and beat pulp at about 1 cup of each.

My first goats all look really good and very nice coats and belly's, new gals the Nigerian adults need some weight on them and I make sure they get a little extra with some goat treats and usually bring out a 16 oz cup of extra alfalfa pellets for them during the day.

How does it look and any suggestions on changes I should make?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

What you are feeding sounds good...but, the dry/open does don't really need grain as long as they have good goat minerals as well as browse and quality hay.

Do you feed your pregnant does separately? you would know that they are getting exactly what they need if you do, I personally don't feed grain until the does are at 2 months bred and even then it's 1 cup a day to a month before they are due then I cut back by half as the babies do the most growing in the month preceding birth, AC doesn't hurt does... you could feed the wether in his own dish next to his moms so he gets and not her.

Does feeding kids get 2x the amount of grain than normal and 2x a day. Pygmies tend to be round and the only way to tell if a goat is too thin would be to have a hands on exam...you should easily feel the shape of the rib with a layer over them, the spine should also be able to be felt as bumps and not protrusions and there should be a nice chunk of flesh on each side of the spine...if you feel the brisket area, there should be some thickness but if it at all jiggles, the goat is fat....I'm guilty with that part as my pygmy/nd cross doe Angel is a cow.


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## AJJ Farm (Apr 8, 2012)

All my goats get alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay. The boys also get noble goat, BOSS & manna pro goat mineral. The girls get a mix of Resaca 16% dairy pellets, Standlee alfalfa pellets, BOSS & they also get the manna pro goat mineral (loose). The Resaca is not certified organic but it is processed more naturally with pressed sunflower & canola oils than most other feeds. I like the noble goat for the kids & the boys because it contains the med to prevent cocci & the AC to prevent urinary calculi. I also really love the vitamin & electrolyte packets from Jeffers. I like to use it after worming, treating with di-met hox & other stressfull times. This powder also contains pro-biotics & you just add it to their water. It's only 2 bucks a package. I love it & the goats & chickens do too!! The powder also helps to prevent the calculi because it has urine acidifiers.


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

After reading through this thread, I've put my two Pygmy boys on alfalfa pellets, along with their grass hay and Noble goat food.

I know the Calcium to Phosphorous should be 2:1 
My question is, what would be the proper grain to alfalfa pellet ratio?
Or does it depend on the grain I'm feeding them? :? 

This is the first day with the alfalfa pellets, I gave them a 50/50 mix this morning.


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

(On 9/25/2012 I updated my post from 9/9/2012 --- I corrected a few spelling errors and added a few thoughts at the end here -- required a little editing.)

Why are we feeding so much grain to dwarf and miniature goats? This may be one of the most foolish things that we do as goat breeders.

1) There is a lot of pressure on people to have the biggest animal in its show class or to grow out their young animals of any type faster, to look "bigger and better." But, bigger is not always better. When you grow out a youngster too fast, it is more likely to have bone and joint problems. And possibly a shorter life. 

2) Recently the ADGA Nigerian Dwarfs seem to be outgrowing their standard, and people talk about increasing the height limits for the standard. The ADGA limit is already taller than the AGS height limit for Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats. What is going on? 

Well, my friend, who bred Sheltie dogs and used to talk with the very first handler who managed the first Sheltie dogs brought to America, told me that on the Shetland Islands the feed is crummy. The ponies, cattle, geese and dogs are small because the food there is coarse and short in nutrients. The animals either grow a bushy coat and a layer of fat off of coarse rations, or they don't survive. We bring them to a land of plenty and start feeding them super-rich feeds, and what happens? They look leaner, their coats get skimpier and they grow super tall! Three of the early (just post-WWII) Sheltie dog breeders found that within two generations of moving to the west coast USA and using premium feeds grown on rich soils, their dogs were outgrowing the breed standards. How does this relate to our dwarf and miniature goats? Well, what are we doing when we stuff our dwarf or miniature goats with premium grains and "grow them out" for two years before breeding the doelings? We are growing Super Goats! We are now outgrowing the dwarf goat standards and our mini-goats may not be that mini.

Shetland ponies and Chincoteague ponies are descended from full size horses stranded on harsh islands -- they had to be small and efficient to live off the poor and sparse feed there. Move them off the island and you start to get taller and taller offspring as they approach their genetic potential. How does this relate to dwarf or miniature goats? Well, it explains why some of them are growing taller and taller. 

Look -- if we want to raise Nigerian Dwarf or Miniature goats, we have to realize that they are not really "dwarf" but just smaller natural goats. Isolated in particular villages, the original goats were probably very inbred which contributes to shorter stature. Fed sparsely because they were basically eating the weeds around people's yards, living under harsh conditions, these pocket-sized goats stayed small and handy. Feed these goats premium feed year after year and generation after generation and you end up with not-so-mini goats. 

A meat goat breeder visited some Nigerian Dwarf Dairy goats and saw an inbred doe who was an "oops" -- mom got out and bred to her (very nice) son. Meat goat breeder thought she was too small and young to breed. Nonsense! In reality, the other goats were on the large size for dwarf goats. In fact, the diminutive little doe was at the maximum size for AGS registry. The others were on the high end of the ADGA registry size.

BTW, when out-crossing formerly inbred goats -- such as crossing two breeds -- you may see a larger offspring for a generation due to hybrid-vigor. If the cross-bred offspring are then bred to each other for a few generations, the size should go down to "normal" or smaller than the first cross-bred offspring. That is if all else is equal. 

When feeding our animals, it is important to keep them healthy, but not super-nourished and not super-fed. When I talk to old-timers who raised livestock under harsh conditions, they said that it was better to feed good but not rich feed to young animals -- which then took a few years to reach adult size and developed a healthier bone structure and lived longer lives. With horses, allowed to grow up slow and only worked when they were pretty much full grown, they had fewere injuries and longer working lives. For other livestock, they had longer breeding lives -- females raised more offspring. How does this relate to our goats? We may find our does productive for more years without difficulty. I know breeders that put their older bucklings on grass hay and minerals, and let them grow out over a few years. They are more likely to stay within the height range for their breed, and less likely to develop urinary calculae and other complications. 

Just my humble opinion and some observations.


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## goats123 (Sep 8, 2012)

AJJ Farm said:


> All my goats get alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay. The boys also get noble goat, BOSS & manna pro goat mineral. The girls get a mix of Resaca 16% dairy pellets, Standlee alfalfa pellets, BOSS & they also get the manna pro goat mineral (loose). The Resaca is not certified organic but it is processed more naturally with pressed sunflower & canola oils than most other feeds. I like the noble goat for the kids & the boys because it contains the med to prevent cocci & the AC to prevent urinary calculi. I also really love the vitamin & electrolyte packets from Jeffers. I like to use it after worming, treating with di-met hox & other stressfull times. This powder also contains pro-biotics & you just add it to their water. It's only 2 bucks a package. I love it & the goats & chickens do too!! The powder also helps to prevent the calculi because it has urine acidifiers.


I was giving my goats alfalfa mix with orchard i had one get six and called the vet he told me to never give alfalfa to goats that that was the reason of her getting six ?? im so confuse i want to give them the best no mater the cost please help???


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm 'young' in this whole goat thing,( both in goat years and age) But I don't feed grain, or 'horse quality' hay. My goats are forage-fed. Their diet consists of: Shrubbery,upland and swamp-type plants and hay. For minerals I have Acadian Kelp and Redmond Salt; and have had absolutely NO problems! Most of the problems come from 'over-managing'. Think about how goats are in their Natural Environment. They didn't have grain or top quality feed.

LLNkikos


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Guys newbie here too, and need to know where COB fits in that spectrum-- we have been mixing it into sweet feed half and half that we feed on the milking stand ( we have a dairy goat and 4 5/6 month olds that are thin/ or need to be tamed/ trained onto the milking stand)...
They seem to like it and I like that it is whole grains....


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I use a bit of grain(whole as well) to make "friends" with new goats...they sure like it


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