# What causes congested udders?



## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

I have two does that both freshened with congested udders.. They are still able to milk pretty good amounts, but when they are milked out their udders still look full and feel heavy and firm..

Anyone know what causes this?

Before milking








After milking








Any input is greatly appreciated! Sorry, I only have before and after shots of one of the does.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is it hard or fleshy?? Congestion would feel hard as a rock....Selenium Def. ... CAE can cause this...treatment would be ..very warm compress, massage, knead, milk repeat..use a good udder balm...some take several week to see improvement..

fleshy udder or meaty udder can be caused by too much protein....there is no fix...


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Oh I forgot to mention they both tested negative for CAE. Less than 2 months ago.

It feels hard, but not like a rock... If that makes any sense... The other doe is starting to get better now.. She is 3 months fresh... The doe pictures above is only 5 days fresh in the pic...

How do I know if it is selenium def. or too much protein? They both have had BOSE.. Once before being bred and I was late to giving it to the doe pictured above, she got it just after freshening instead of a month before like the other doe..

But her udder is heavy...


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

I really have no clue....since I've never had a fresh doe....BUT if they are anything like a dairy cow when they freshen....hard congested udders are generally from graining too heavy prior to freshening. 

Would love to know if this is the same for dairy goats. Anyone?


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

This doe (pictured) was grained very heavily for many months prior to kidding.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like you took care of the Selenium...if she is still deficient would depend on how deficient your area is...we had a few freshen with congested udder..such a pain!!..Im thinking we need to to BoSe 3 times a year!...there are other signs of deficiency...like sluggish labor, retained placenta...babies born weak, weak suck reflex, weak and or bent legs...to name a few..you would been to assess the total picture...a meaty udder feel fatty...and although looks huge may not have much milk..I have not had this issue here, but from what I read...it could be from too high of protein..and is not a fixable problem..maybe some one who has dealt with it can chime in on that...

I would do some warm compresses and massage, knead, milk ...we did this 3-4 times a day for several days..a few were so congested I gave Banamine for three days in hope to help...it did seem to or maybe it was our tired wore out arms lol...at any rate, its not usually a quick fix...


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Well, I have had some issues with congested udders. So this year I tried to hold back on the grain to see if it made a difference..... nada...... the one doe still had congested udder. She also tested CAE free. She is now almost 3 months fresh and is better but still has a very meaty udder. Even when she is drained, she has a round firm udder. So maybe your girls have the meaty udder like mine??


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

I have a doe just like this. Yes, she did get a lot of grain during her pregnancy.
Will it always stay this way? Even in future pregnancies? Now I'm scared I ruined her udder...

(Sorry, Dee. Hope I didn't steal your thread.)


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

No worries, we are all looking for the same info


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

happybleats said:


> I would do some warm compresses and massage, knead, milk ...we did this 3-4 times a day for several days..a few were so congested I gave Banamine for three days in hope to help...it did seem to or maybe it was our tired wore out arms lol...at any rate, its not usually a quick fix...


I can do it 3 x a day on Wednesday's and 4 x a day on Sunday's and Monday's, all other days I can only do twice and I'll be lucky if I can do that much on those days bc of work (I barely have time before work to even milk them..) Will that be enough for them??

Anyone have experience with the high protein udder in case it is that?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There's not much you can do about a meaty udder, once the fat cells in the udder have grown, they never go away.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

How long has she been fresh? Some of my girls took a couple weeks before they let me have most of the milk.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Work her congested udder as often as you can...its all any of can do...time and patients is key.....


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Will do, thank you!


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## Shell2 (Apr 13, 2014)

I also have 2 does with congested udders... More on one side than the other for both of them... I have been using bag balm, however one of my girls seems to have had a slight reaction to it with getting pimple type things on her udder where I use the balm...Can I massage without a balm of some sort? I have been massaging for weeks with no real change  However it has just been this past week or so that I think I have been doing it 'deeply' enough...Both girls have babies on at the moment, one with triplets--although I am bottle feeding one--and one with a single. The hard spots feel more hard than meaty. Should I notice a difference after each massaging or not really? Any particular way to actually do the massaging to be more effective?
Sorry to hijack this thread. Thanks for any input!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Shell2

Congestion can be quite stubborn...very warm compress, massage, knead milk repeat, really work it.....need to milk as you go ...each time you loosen some up...try coconut oil with peppermint ess. oil as a balm...wash her udder after with a 50/50 vinegar/water wash..its very conditioning and will clear up irritation..if the bumps look pimply with pus, that could be staph and will need chlorhexidine which can be used instead of vinegar/water....


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

No worries about "hijacking" the thread, I'm glad this question could help more Han just me!


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## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

Dee, Athena freshened a bit congested too. Hot compresses, massaging, and mint udder cream have reallyyy helped. TSC has a good cream, or you can order Dynamint online. Bag Balm also seemed to help, if only with the external texture.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

I ordered dynamint.. Hasn't come in yet...


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## Shell2 (Apr 13, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Shell2
> 
> Congestion can be quite stubborn...very warm compress, massage, knead milk repeat, really work it.....need to milk as you go ...each time you loosen some up...try coconut oil with peppermint ess. oil as a balm...wash her udder after with a 50/50 vinegar/water wash..its very conditioning and will clear up irritation..if the bumps look pimply with pus, that could be staph and will need chlorhexidine which can be used instead of vinegar/water....


Would Betadine solution work for this? I don't know where to get chlorhexidine....Feed/farm store? Or vet?
The bumps seem like a pimple that scabs over...quite large like maybe half the size of a dime or so...Haven't really seen pus...they are kind of crusty now...No new ones since I stopped the bag balm though...


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

following...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Would Betadine solution work for this? I don't know where to get chlorhexidine....Feed/farm store? Or vet?
> The bumps seem like a pimple that scabs over...quite large like maybe half the size of a dime or so...Haven't really seen pus...they are kind of crusty now...No new ones since I stopped the bag balm though...


Betadine would be too drying I think...the chlorhexidine you can get at tractor supply...its a blue liquid and smells very fresh.. since they are drying up..try washing with the 50/50 vinegar water mix a few days and see how they do..: )


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can get chlorhexidine at any local pharmacy. It is Hibiclens. I just get it at Walmart.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

I got my package in today! Both does tested negative on the CMT!

The doe that I didn't have pix of is almost back to normal now (6 weeks and 2 days fresh) but I still rubbed the dynamite on both of their udders! We will see what happens now!


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## Shell2 (Apr 13, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Betadine would be too drying I think...the chlorhexidine you can get at tractor supply...its a blue liquid and smells very fresh.. since they are drying up..try washing with the 50/50 vinegar water mix a few days and see how they do..: )


Ok. Thanks! We do not have a Tractor Supply around here... I will check at Walmart or our pharmacy. Will start with the 50/50 water&vinegar for the weekend and see how that goes. Thank you so much!!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

The "fight bac" spray for use after milking all has chlorhexidine in it. I used that on a mama with staph last year


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

HappyCaliGoats said:


> This doe (pictured) was grained very heavily for many months prior to kidding.


Bingo. You're lucky all that grain didn't cause other problems. Hot compresses, massage, milk, massage milk, at least twice a day. I'd also test her for mastitis and treat if positive.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Her CMT test was negative. I didn't think I was graining her too much for a pregnant doe? She was getting about 2# maybe 3 sometimes. But the other doe that I did not share pix of was not heavily grained and is having the same problem


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Too much grain will cause edema. Edema is fluid in the udder that causes it to feel hard.

A meaty udder is usually genetic.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

So the second doe I have had since last year and last year her udder milked completely down. Does that mean she doesn't have the genetically meaty udder or is that something that can develop after their second freshening?


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## Shell2 (Apr 13, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Shell2
> 
> Congestion can be quite stubborn...very warm compress, massage, knead milk repeat, really work it.....need to milk as you go ...each time you loosen some up...try coconut oil with peppermint ess. oil as a balm...wash her udder after with a 50/50 vinegar/water wash..its very conditioning and will clear up irritation..if the bumps look pimply with pus, that could be staph and will need chlorhexidine which can be used instead of vinegar/water....


Bought some Hibitane for my goat. I am pretty sure it is staph now... Hopefully this will clear things up.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What is Hibitane?


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> What is Hibitane?





> *HIBITANE*® Skin Cleanser : Zeneca : Chlorhexidine Gluconate


Canada's version of Hibiclenz, it's Chlorhexidine.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Oh, ok. Great you could find some.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great ...should heal pretty fast...


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## Shell2 (Apr 13, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Great ...should heal pretty fast...


Yes, I am already noticing a difference after 2 days  How long should I keep applying it? Until all the marks are gone or...? Thanks again to everyone for the help!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

keep applying until all bumps have healed...dried up


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Ok so one of my does is almost completely better. However the other one seems to be getting worse. The one I pictured at the beginning of this tread... Her udder is bigger and harder now... Seems to be producing less milk bug can't tell for sure since she is dam raising and another kid is stealing milk...

CMT test still negative.... What am I dealing with here? This can't be comfortable for her...

I'm going to give her banamine and pray it will help with the swelling.. Any other suggestions?


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

Turmeric is an anti-inflammatory in humans; maybe it would work for goats too? For people you give smallish doses several times a day over a period of weeks to help with chronic swelling, etc.

Don't know if it would work or not; just a thought I had. Hope she gets better.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

What is that? Is it a medication? Where can I find it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Spice. You can find medicinal grade online or just buy some at the grocery store. But you will need to find out how much. My dog was on it through an alternative medicine vet so dosage for her was correct but it made her throw up and i had to stop giving it to her.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Oh boy... The udder doesnt bother her at all... It just bothers me... It's very strange... It's very large...... I'll try to get more before and after pix tonight


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Surprisingly she's a lot better than yesterday. She milked out 3.5# and yesterday only 1# and her milked out udder is significantly smaller today







Before








After


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Looking better. ..


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

I wish I had a pic of her last night... I thought she was just going to pop.. I'm Glad the banamine did a little something (or just coincidence) if it's not improved in 4 days I will give her Dex as per a vet I have been consulting with..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I gave banamine three days in a row for my hard cases seem to help ..


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

The vet said that in goats banamine is more for pain and Dex is what I should have used for anti inflammatory but now I can't use it until the banamine gets out of her system..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Not sure why he would think so....Banamine is also for inflammation. .pain and fever.???


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Yes but she said in goats it works more for pain than anything


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

humm..never heard that, not to argue with your vet lol...it seem to help my girls who were terrible congested...


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Lol no worries, I'm not offended. I like to hear people with experience over a vet


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

It is so frustrating to not know what is going on with her... I know this can't be normal... Her udder is massive when milked out... I only got a pound of milk from her this morning... But somehow she is still acting totally normal like it doesn't bother her at all...


I gave her dexamethasone this morning and I guess if that doesn't work my last resort will be to treat her for mastitis even though her CMT came negative..


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Do the dex for a few days and also put her on antibiotics. Dex knocks their immune system down, and the antibiotics might help anyways.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

She was already on antibiotics? Should I do it again? She had a five day course of pen g


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You have to use an antibiotic with dex if you use it more than once. Try a different kind, like la200.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Ok, I don't have LA 200.. I have Tylan.. And I forgot the dose..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

tylan 200 is 1 cc per 25#


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Thank you


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

In my opinion, congested udders are from genes and conditioning. I don't think its a protein or selenium problem. Massaging the udder and using dynamint is a great way to improve this, but I don't believe there is a way to "cure" this.
I've had a doe that had a congested udder her first freshening, like rock hard udder before and after milking, she gave me a little less than all my other does (but not much less). Her second freshening she was congested for a few weeks then started milking out better, and gave me just as much as everyone else. I believe its all time and conditioning.


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

Unfortunately, I've had quite a bit of experience with congested udder. One year I had three does freshen congested. Ugh. Two are sold now but I still have the third and she is CAE positive. I question whether that's the reason for the congestion, though, because so many negative does have the same problem.

My homeopathic vet told me you see congested udder is does that come from high-producing milk lines. The udder fills so fast from freshening that the body doesn't have a chance to adapt well. I treat before freshening now, because it does seem to make a difference in how long it lasts. I use only homeopathic remedies, warm compresses, and massage. Apis during labor and right after, Arnica after kidding, then Phytolacca decandra to help soften the udder and Pulsatilla to encourage milk let-down. If the hard spots continue, I might use another remedy,depending on the symptom picture.

Antibiotics are not useful with congested udder because it is NOT mastitis, and not caused from either bacteria or viruses. It does cause internal scarring, though, if it doesn't resolve quickly. This year my doe was congested for two weeks instead of the usual 5 or 6 days, and still has some hard spots after three weeks. I'll be using Thiosinimine and Phytolacca at low potencies to resolve the scarring, but that will take weeks. In the meantime, she's giving only about a quart of milk a day, and she does come from very productive milk lines. This is her fourth freshening and her milk production is way down. I'm questioning whether I should even breed her again, even though she produces beautiful babies that mature into excellent milkers. Her udder, btw, is not meaty. I think there's a difference between meaty udder and congestion.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm getting about a pound or two twice a day and she's feeding her buckling... She's 4 weeks fresh and still very congested.....


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

HappyCaliGoats said:


> I'm getting about a pound or two twice a day and she's feeding her buckling... She's 4 weeks fresh and still very congested.....


Four weeks is a long time for congestion. If she were my doe, I'd give her Apis daily for three days and see if that helps. I use 200C, but 30C will also work, but a little more slowly. You can usually find it in health food stores or coops.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

What is Apis? And yes, it has been a long time... I think her udder is destroyed just from the weight of the congestion...... 200C cups? Capsules?


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

HappyCaliGoats said:


> What is Apis? And yes, it has been a long time... I think her udder is destroyed just from the weight of the congestion...... 200C cups? Capsules?


See my previous post from tonight at 7:32p. Apis is a homeopathic remedy. 200C is the potency. Homeopathic remedies are usually in tiny pillules, so you'd give one or 2 pillules, either dissolved in water or popped into the mouth.

This is my doe right after kidding. Her udder is huge, and it took a couple weeks to go down. I think it would have been much worse without the homeopathic remedies, but there's definitely damage. Her milk production seems to be all in the bottom half of her udder now. The top still has hard spots and never seems to change but I'll be treating her for scar tissue as soon as the new remedies arrive.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

rosawoodsii said:


> My homeopathic vet told me you see congested udder is does that come from high-producing milk lines. The udder fills so fast from freshening that the body doesn't have a chance to adapt well. I treat before freshening now, because it does seem to make a difference in how long it lasts. I use only homeopathic remedies, warm compresses, and massage. Apis during labor and right after, Arnica after kidding, then Phytolacca decandra to help soften the udder and Pulsatilla to encourage milk let-down. If the hard spots continue, I might use another remedy,depending on the symptom picture.


That seems like a lot of things to be giving her? And I don't even know what any of them are... I will try to look them all up.. I'd really love to believe that she can get better...


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## ms_mac (Oct 7, 2012)

I have the congested udder problem with my LaMancha doe. We have been milking, massaging, balming as often as possible. She still gives a goodly amount of good milk just symptomatic of the congested udder. I gave lots and lots of grain before she had her kid. Did not know this was a problem. I thought they needed it. Learning process at her expense.


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## bpfgal (Apr 4, 2013)

So glad I saw this post. 2 of my older does had congested udders last year. One of my good milkers had a very uneven udder since her 2nd freshening. After skipping a year of kidding it was not better. She had triplets this year and has done very well taking care of them. The side that is congested often has white clumps in milk. Neg CAE Neg CMT. Neg CL. She is 8 years old. My other doe is a terror (there is a worse word but I wont use it) on the stand. She is also 8. Last year, she became congested. Took her to vet and her concurred a congested udder. I fought with her last year. This year massaged and tried to milk out. She is dam raising 2 kids. I have pretty much decided to not breed again. My 3rd doe is a dream, beautiful soft udder. Milks well although I only milk once a day and get less than a quart of milk. She is 5. After all these posts, I too feel I was guilty of graining too heavily during pregnancy. Lesson learned here. After rambling (thanks) my question is --- what do you do with these lovely but unmilkable does? They were my first two and emotionally Im attached. However, every animal on our farm has a purpose. They are Nigerian Dwarf.


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

HappyCaliGoats said:


> That seems like a lot of things to be giving her? And I don't even know what any of them are... I will try to look them all up.. I'd really love to believe that she can get better...


Homeopathy doesn't work the same way as conventional medicine. Rather, it works on an energetic level. The remedies are not given at the same time, but a new one may be selected as the symptom picture changes.

Keep in mind that long-term congestion can cause tissue damage, i.e. internal scarring and loss of production, but resolving the congestion will make the doe a lot more comfortable.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Do I find these items at whole foods? Or the Internet? Or?

It's already been so long.. I'm pretty sure there is permanent damage..


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

Whole foods may carry homeopathic remedies. I usually buy online at Washington Homeopathic. www.homeopathyworks.com

You may not be able to reverse the damage but you can keep more from happening. As in anything, there are no guarantees, but homeopathy has always worked for me


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

UPDATE:

My doe with the bigger udder gave a weak positive result on her CMT tonight.. So I'll be treating both does. Unfortunately I only have tomorrow to treat them with..


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Must always listen to Jill


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

Lol right!


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

So I treated them Both last night, Temper seems the same, but Kat's udder is bigger and harder now...... I was going to treat her again with the tomorrow... I also have spectramast... I'm at a loss now... I know I shouldn't expect improvement in one day, but I didn't expect her to get worse....


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Vitamin C helps Mammary tissue. I take a teaspoon of powdered C and dissolve in 10-15 cc water, then syringe it into her mouth. I do it daily until she is better.


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## HappyCaliGoats (Mar 19, 2014)

How many MG? I have tablets... They won't eat them.... But of course the other goats will...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HappyCaliGoats said:


> How many MG? I have tablets... They won't eat them.... But of course the other goats will...


No idea, my kitchen scale won't work anymore. I'm probably overdosing, but it seems to help with everything. Sniffles, coughs, etc. Will the tablets fit inside a pill popper meant for dogs? What if you split them in two? A pill popper is how I bolus my kids...

Maybe someone else knows how to give Vit C tablets?

Just so you know, I don't ONLY give C for udder issues. This is only a supporting supplement.

Of COURSE the other goats will gobble them!!!!


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