# Disbudding Question



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

With kids on the ground now disbudding looms on the horizon. My question is: in the instructions I've read and videos I've watched I've seen some people only burn the copper ring and others do the copper ring and cauterized the center after the skin cap is knocked off. Am I understanding this correctly? And if so what would you recommend doing?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Either is fine. The copper ring is the most important


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we always knock the cap off and cauterize. Bucks do best with the figure 8.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

We knock the cap off and do the figure 8 on buck kids as well. Of the does we retained from last year, most have very clean heads. The buck we retained has some scurs, so I need to get better on the bucks.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Bucks are hard. I like to shave the horn area with clippers. Burning hair stinks! 
The important thing with disbudding is to KEEP that iron on the horn bud for the full time- I count to 13-15 seconds. Putting it on and off is how the skull gets heated up and brain damage can occur. Make sure that iron is HOT, hold it for a second or 2 on a piece of wood (it should make a nice black ring in 2 seconds or less).


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Goats Rock said:


> Bucks are hard. I like to shave the horn area with clippers. Burning hair stinks!
> The important thing with disbudding is to KEEP that iron on the horn bud for the full time- I count to 13-15 seconds. Putting it on and off is how the skull gets heated up and brain damage can occur. Make sure that iron is HOT, hold it for a second or 2 on a piece of wood (it should make a nice black ring in 2 seconds or less).


Well, now I'm confused. All the places I saw said 5-8. :shrug: Is your recommendation for a lower watt iron? I see on caprine supplies website it says that. I have the Rhinehart X-30.


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## MissMiniNubian (Jan 20, 2021)

I think 5-8 would be safer


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. I have a Rhinehart X50 and hold it on until I have a copper ring. I don't count but probably is in that range.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a Rhinehart X50. I also have an ice pack in case a kid acts like his head is too hot. After 400+ disbuddings, I have only ever had to use the ice pack twice- and that was because the horn buds were pretty big.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

How do you know if their head is getting too hot? Just by touch?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You kind of don't know. You have to learn from experience.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I understand. I figured it might be that kind of thing. Thanks for the advice.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

We do a five count, remove the iron to let the head cool, do the other side, then come back to the first side with a 5 count for bucks for the second time and a 3 count for does. That is how our vet taught us to do it. He told us not to hold too long or you could literally burn through the skull. After that we pop off the caps and cauterize any bleeds, then figure 8 if a buck.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

So you do the extra figure eight burn on boys after you've completed the horn bud burn?


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## wheel-bear-o (Jul 6, 2020)

If you're nervous about it, you can ask a vet (or local knowledgable goat person) to come over and do it the first time so you can watch in person and learn. 

For me, it's something I never intend to do on my own - my vet's rates are very reasonable (they make most of their $$$ on horses) and I strongly prefer the kids to be sedated while the procedure occurs, so it's worth it to me to pay a small fee.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I don't really have any goat people I know around me, and my vet is against disbudding, so she's of no help. I am a bit nervous (how could you not be?), but I think I can do it. It's tough when there are so many different opinions out there, but I think I have a handle on what I'm going to do. I'm just glad for today to get a little more educated and prepared. I thought for sure my little buckling would need to be done today.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Go by the copper circle- as you gain experience, you will get a better idea of how long to leave the iron on. What works for one person may not work for another. Just make sure your iron is hot. And wear leather gloves! Especially the first time! 

You will do fine. Its a scary proposition, but it is actually harder on you than the goat! (I tell myself that every time! )


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Thanks for the reassurance, @Goats Rock . (thumbup)


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

MellonFriend said:


> So you do the extra figure eight burn on boys after you've completed the horn bud burn?


Yes, it's the last thing we do, boys only.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

It’s normal to be nervous, especially the first few. It gets less stressful the more you do. I haven’t managed to permanently harm any of them yet, and I think I’ve gotten better along the way. Take breaks as needed, for both you and the goat. Don’t rush things. Shave a bigger area than you think you need (burning hair smells awful and shaving helps decrease the smell). For the bucklings, clearly identify the horn flute so you have the iron properly positioned. 

Disbudding is the thing I most hate about kidding season; however for our situation it is a necessary evil. You’ll be fine, just take a deep breath and focus on the job.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Knock the cap and cauterize. I didn't get the cap off last year but had nice copper rings...those 2 kids have scurs now  This is my 2nd year coming disbudding. I'm terrified.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I just thought I'd let you know that I just disbudded my little buckling. I think it went pretty well, and I was surprised at how not traumatic for me it was. Time will tell whether I did it enough, but for my first time I feel great with what I did. I'm not going to be too hard on myself. I mean, if I get scurs, I get scurs. This is a learning process. I could not flip the cap off, I don't know if it was just because the buds weren't quite large enough for me to do that, but it didn't happen so we will see. Benjamin seems to be doing fine. I know that if there was a problem you wouldn't know right away, but he bounced right back and was nursing and jumping around in the stall when I put him back after finishing. Thank you all for your support and advice. I could not have done this without you.:ty:


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

We shave a large area, aside from burning hair, I think it's easier to see what you are doing, better. I've always been told no more than 5 seconds at a time (like 5 Literal seconds...not a fast 5 count) We usually do like another said, do the first bud for 5 seconds, go to the other, come back, and touch up the first then second then pop the cap. We did figure 8 on the bucks and got weird scurs that we didn't have before, so we stopped doing it this year. Will see how they turn out. Bucks are hard in general. Every buck I've owned has had some kind of scur. I've had boys we burned, other herds burned themselves, vets have burned, etc. All have had scurs to varying degrees.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

MellonFriend said:


> I just thought I'd let you know that I just disbudded my little buckling. I think it went pretty well, and I was surprised at how not traumatic for me it was. Time will tell whether I did it enough, but for my first time I feel great with what I did. I'm not going to be too hard on myself. I mean, if I get scurs, I get scurs. This is a learning process. I could not flip the cap off, I don't know if it was just because the buds weren't quite large enough for me to do that, but it didn't happen so we will see. Benjamin seems to be doing fine. I know that if there was a problem you wouldn't know right away, but he bounced right back and was nursing and jumping around in the stall when I put him back after finishing. Thank you all for your support and advice. I could not have done this without you.:ty:


Great job! It's a def learning experience. I don't like doing it as I'm not comfortable and it's traumatic for me lol. Here, it's my husband's job and he does a good one.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Great job. You did it and should be proud of yourself scurs or no scurs! It’s no fun when you’re worried that your going to traumatize a animal of any type. As you can see now, it’s not fun but it’s not so bad either.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can always disbud again if you see any growth. Good for you doing it.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Good job!

We use a knife to pop the caps off, then cauterize the area. Sometimes they bleed (my husband’s first time he got arterial spurt which freaked me out but we were able to stop the bleed and the buckling was fine). 

When we notice scurs, if it is soon enough we reburn. If they’re small and movable we just pop them off with pliers like a scab. My keeper buckling from last year was growing some decent scurs that weren’t movable. He bashed them off once, but they regrew. I was trimming his feet this past weekend and decided to take the horse hoof nippers to trim back his scurs some (have read about it but never tried it). He threw such a fit when I tried to nip it that the whole scur came off (sweet!), so I did the same to the other. He had minimal bleeding but was so mad at me. As they grow back I’ll keep popping them off. Hopefully they’ll stop growing back.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

NDinKY said:


> Good job!
> 
> We use a knife to pop the caps off, then cauterize the area. Sometimes they bleed (my husband's first time he got arterial spurt which freaked me out but we were able to stop the bleed and the buckling was fine).
> 
> When we notice scurs, if it is soon enough we reburn. If they're small and movable we just pop them off with pliers like a scab. My keeper buckling from last year was growing some decent scurs that weren't movable. He bashed them off once, but they regrew. I was trimming his feet this past weekend and decided to take the horse hoof nippers to trim back his scurs some (have read about it but never tried it). He threw such a fit when I tried to nip it that the whole scur came off (sweet!), so I did the same to the other. He had minimal bleeding but was so mad at me. As they grow back I'll keep popping them off. Hopefully they'll stop growing back.


Thanks! My bucks that I bought have scurs that they knock off occasionally, but sometimes if they don't, I trim them with a wire saw because they grow towards their heads. Man--they hate when I have to do that.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Yesterday Benjamin had to cry a little today when his sister butted his head with hers. He acted like his head hurt and then he went back to normal and then today it happened once again, but seemingly without cause. Should I be concerned about this? Should I give him some banamine just in case? He's nursing well, and springing around like he should. I only saw it happen once today and I've been out there pretty much all day.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wouldn't worry.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Okay good to know. Thanks, Karen. I feel like the theme of my first kidding season has been "Is this normal?" :ahh:


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