# Mineral Comparison



## Stacykins

So I thought I'd ask what your opinions are on this mineral. I currently give my goats Manna Pro Goat Mineral. But it would be lovely to be able to buy something in a larger quantity, since we go through it quite fast.

Here is the label for that mineral.

*Guaranteed Analysis*

Crude Protein Min 4.00% (This includes not more than 4.0% equivalent crude protein from non-protein nitrogen) 
Calcium Min 16.00% Calcium Max 19.20% 
Phosphorus Min 8.00% 
Salt Min 12.00% Salt Max 14.40% 
Potassium Min 1.50% 
Magnesium Min 1.50% 
Copper Min 1350 PPM 
Manganese Min 2750 PPM 
Zinc Min 5500 PPM 
Selenium Min 12 PPM 
Vitamin A Min 300,000 IU/LB 
Vitamin D3 Min 30,000 IU/LB 
Vitamin E Min 400 IU/LB

*Ingredients*
MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SALT, DISTILLERS DRIED GRAINS WITH SOLUBLES, CANE MOLASSES, VEGETABLE OIL, YEAST CULTURE, AMMONIUM CHLORIDE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, POTASSIUM SULFATE, POTASSIUM AMINO ACID COMPLEX, MAGNESIUM OXIDE, MAGNESIUM AMINO ACID CHELATE, MAGNESIUM SULFATE, FERROUS SULFATE, FERROUS CARBONATE, COPPER SULFATE, COPPER AMINO ACID CHELATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, MANGANESE SULFATE, MANGANESE AMINO ACID CHELATE, ZINC OXIDE, ZINC SULFATE, ZINC AMINO ACID CHELATE, COBALT CARBONATE, CALCIUM IODATE, SODIUM SELENITE, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, SACCHAROMYCES CEREVISIA, DRIED ENTEROCOCCUS FAECIUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED LACTOBACILLIUS CASEI, DRIED LACTOBACILLIUS ACIDOPHILLUS FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS PLANTARUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED BACILLUS SUBTILLUS FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED ASPERGILLUS ORYZAE FERMENTATION EXTRACT, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVORS.

And here is the one I am thinking of replacing it with. I know some of ya'll use Right Now Onyx. But that isn't available here. But this one that is seemed closest to the Manno Pro mineral. It is called Purina 6% Phosphorus Mineral. 

Here is that label.

*Guaranteed Analysis:*
Calcium (Ca), (max.) 14.00%, Calcium (Ca) (min.) 12.00%
Phosphorus (P), (min.) 6.00%
Salt (NaCl), (max.) 11.00%, Salt (NaCl), (min.) 9.00%
Magnesium (Mg), (min.) 4.00%
Potassium (K), (min.) 1.00%
Manganese (Mn), (min.) 3,600 PPM
Zinc (Zn), (min.) 3,600 PPM
Copper (Cu), (min.) 1,200 PPM
Iodine (I), (min.) 60 PPM
Selenium (Se), (min.) 27 PPM
Vitamin A, (min.) 150,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D3, (min.) 5,000 IU/LB
Vitamin E, (min.) 150 IU/LB.

*Ingredients:*
Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Processed Grain By-Products, Salt, Magnesium Oxide, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Molasses Products, Mineral Oil, Iron Oxide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Chloride, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Cobalt Carbonate, Artificial Flavoring, Sodium Selenite

Thoughts? Keep looking? Should I see what the local feed mill has on hand, rather than TSC?

As a note, we are in a very low copper and selenium area. Well, copper might not be low, but the iron in the soil is incredibly high, which causes problems with copper absorption. Iron mining is a big industry here, as you can imagine, with many cities named after the abdunance of iron (Iron Mountain, Iron River, Ironwood, etc.). I noticed that the copper is a bit lower. BUT I already have to supplement copper with Multimin 90 or boluses, so it isn't much of an issue.


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## ksalvagno

Keep looking. Even look at cattle minerals.


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## Scottyhorse

Agreed. Copper and selenium are low in both. I ended up going with a cattle mineral. 3550 PPm copper and 53 PPM selenium! Cheap too.


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## freedomstarfarm

It is comparable to the MannPro you re currently feeding so would not be any worse and would be just fine. I would say buy a bag of that and use it but keep looking to see if you can fine one higher in Copper since you say you are in a low copper area. That or also Copper Bolus.


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## MsScamp

Stacykins said:


> So I thought I'd ask what your opinions are on this mineral. I currently give my goats Manna Pro Goat Mineral. But it would be lovely to be able to buy something in a larger quantity, since we go through it quite fast.


What about talking to management at the store you by the Manna Pro and see if they could order larger bags? That might be an option if you like the Manna Pro.


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## Buck Naked Boers

The NW is low in both copper and selenium I am hearing. So how much do you know to feed goats? Isn't there a 'best' mineral and '2nd best'? What do you all suggest....??


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## Scottyhorse

I'd find the one with the highest copper and selenium available to you. You can always copper bolus and give a shot of BoSe if they need it too. I just switched mine from Purina (terrible) to CHS Stockmin 12:12 Plus. It seems pretty good. The C ratio is off, but they get alfalfa so it's ok.


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## fishin816

Scottyhorse said:


> Agreed. Copper and selenium are low in both. I ended up going with a cattle mineral. 3550 PPm copper and 53 PPM selenium! Cheap too.


Sydney, I am curious what that mineral is? Is it the purina wind and rain?


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> The NW is low in both copper and selenium I am hearing. So how much do you know to feed goats? Isn't there a 'best' mineral and '2nd best'? What do you all suggest....??


What loose mineral do I suggest?

I recommend Cargill Right Now Onyx cow minerals.

BEST stuff out there! Sweetlix Meatmaker is a good one too, Mannapro makes a good one.

Purina makes a terrible one, NEVER use that stuff!


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## Scottyhorse

Cade, I'm actually using CHS Payback Stockmin 12:12 Plus. It is a cattle mineral. The only animals that get purina food here are the chickens. Thats just because it is the only thing available around here. If we had a choice I would switch. 
The stats of Manna Pro are listed above at the very top of this thread, correct? It's low in copper and selenium.
I also read somewhere on here that the Cargill Right Now Onyx was discontinued. Makes sense why I couldn't find it on their website.


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## ksalvagno

The biggest problem I see is the type of minerals. Manna Pro has chelated which is the most bio - available. The tag on the new one is only showing copper chloride as a copper source. So even though copper is 1200, the goats won't absorb it near good enough as the type of copper in Manna Pro.


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## Scottyhorse

That post is kind of confusing, sorry. :lol:


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## ksalvagno

There are different types of minerals used. Chelated is the best because an animal can absorb it the best. Sulfates are the next best type but doesn't absorb as well as chelates. Oxides are the worst and basically don't get absorbed much. So even if a mineral was exactly the same, an animal won't absorb it at the same rate. So 1200 ppm of copper chelate and 1200 ppm of copper oxide are not equal because the goat is absorbing significantly less copper from the oxide.


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## fishin816

Scottyhorse said:


> Cade, I'm actually using CHS Payback Stockmin 12:12 Plus. It is a cattle mineral. The only animals that get purina food here are the chickens. Thats just because it is the only thing available around here. If we had a choice I would switch.
> The stats of Manna Pro are listed above at the very top of this thread, correct? It's low in copper and selenium.
> I also read somewhere on here that the Cargill Right Now Onyx was discontinued. Makes sense why I couldn't find it on their website.


No, it is only continued in the north east. I can still get it here

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## Scottyhorse

Oh, that makes sense, thank you. I will need to find out what kind of copper is in my mineral.


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## kyndal_98

We use vitaferm


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## sassykat6181

I use Sweetlix 16:8 meat maker. The goats love it


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## Stacykins

The main problem is there is no Sweetilix distributor with a five hour drive. Though I do occationally pass by a place that sells the stuff when visiting relatives, I am leery about buying a 25lb bag of it if they HATE it. And ordering an 18lb pail from Jeffers means paying through the nose. *I wonder if the company sends out samples? *I just need to know if they'll eat it, then I would go out of my way to buy a supply of sweetlix. I could keep the bag/s in my basement where it is cool and dry.

I asked my feedstores about Right Now Onyx as well, and none can get it, even with a special order. So I'm kinda boned when it comes to decent mineral availability, other than the 8lb bags of Manna Pro...


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## Buck Naked Boers

Karen thank you so much for explaining this about copper! So do you use Manna pro or have you found a better kind of mineral (brand??) that uses the chelated minerals?

For instance this is from RANCH-O-MIN:


Calcium, min10.0 %
Calcium, max12.0 %
Phosphorus, min11.0 %
Salt, min16.0 %
Salt, max18.0 %
Potassium, min1.0 %
Magnesium, min2.0 %
Zinc, min2,585 ppm
Chelated Zinc, min385 ppm
Manganese, min1,930 ppm
Chelated Manganese, min285 ppm
Copper, min1,170 ppm
Chelated Copper, min170 ppm
Selenium, min24 ppm
Organic seleninum, min3.5 ppm
Cobalt, min8.5 ppm
Iodine, min35 ppm
Vitamin A, min120,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D, min37,500 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min500 IU/lb
But it doesn't look high enough in Copper amounts.

This looks like a good option:

*Bluebonnet® 1552 Tech-Master Complete Mineral
Modern Mineral Supplement For Beef & Dairy Cattle, Horses & Goats*

-Guaranteed Analysis-
Calcium__Minimum 10.00%; Maximum___12.00%
Phosphorus_Minimum___ _____________ 12.00%
Salt____Minimum 10.00%; Maximum____ 12.00%
Magnesium_Minimum__________________2.35%
Potassium_Minimum_____ _____________ 1.45%
Copper__Minimum____ _____________ 2,000 ppm
Selenium____Minimum_ _____________ 26.5 ppm
Zinc____Minimum___ _____________ 6,000 ppm
Manganese____Minimum___________ 3,500 ppm
Cobalt__Minimum____ _____________ 50 ppm
Iodine___Minimum ______________ 100 ppm
Vitamin A_Min. Per Lb.__________ 200,000 I.U.
Vitamin D3___Min. Per Lb._______ 30,000 I.U.
Vitamin E __Min. Per Lb. __________ 300 I.U.
-Ingredients-
Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Dried Molasses, Yeast Culture, Dehydrated Kelp Meal, Potassium Amino Acid Complex, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Sulfate, Magnesium
Amino Acid Chelate, Magnesium Oxide, Magnesium Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Lecithin, Soybean Oil, MineralOil, Natural and Artificial Flavors, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride,
Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide.
-Product Description-
Bluebonnet® Tech-Master Complete Mineral is designed to provide calcium, phosphorus, vitamins and patented amino acid chelated trace minerals as well as micronutrients from seaweed meal (kelp) plus microbial digestive catalysts.

What say you Karen?? =)

Tami


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## Buck Naked Boers

Also what about this one??

By Rowe Nutrition

8% BROOD COW/GOAT
BREEDING MINERAL-s/y
Mineral & Vitamin Premix for beef cattle.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Calcium.......Minimum ................ 10.50%
Calcium...... Maximum ................ 12.85%
Phosphorus... Minimum ................ 8.00%
Salt..........Minimum................. 17.80%
Salt..........Maximum................. 21.80%
Magnesium.....Minimum................. 4.60%
Potassium.....Minimum................. 0.30%
Zinc..........Minimum................ 7,000 ppm
Iron..........Minimum................ 2,000 ppm
Manganese.....Minimum................ 5,000 ppm
Copper........Minimum................ 2700 ppm
Iodine........Minimum................ 80 ppm
Cobalt........Minimum................ 145 ppm
Selenium......Minimum................ 35 ppm
Vitamin A.....Minimum............ 340,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D ....Minimum............ 37,260 IU/lb
Vitamin E.....Minimum............ 1,020 IU/lb
Folic Acid....Minimum............ 75,000 Mcg/lb
INGREDIENTS
Monocalcium Phosphate, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Dry Molasses, Ani-mal & Vegetable Fat, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Selenium Yeast, Yeast Culture, Potassium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin D Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Choline Chloride, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Lactobacillus Aci-dophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifido Bacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterpo-coccus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated. and Mineral Oil.


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## ksalvagno

I am no expert. Just took some goat seminars at Ohio State. 

I use Right Now Onyx Cattle mineral.

The blue bonnet label makes more sense to me but can't say the other one is bad. I'd probably go with the Blue Bonnet but try what you think will work.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Hi Karen: Well you are much more an expert than I am!  So certainly thought you'd be the one to ask. There is so much info that seems to sort of go against what people say. One will say this and another that...but I really seem to get very good advice on this forum and you are one who does seem to have alot of info. So thought I'd ask. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this!

Does anyone else want to weigh in on what they think regarding minerals? I wish there was a company that just made like a more natural chelated vitamin/mineral supplement. Wouldn't it be nice to just have a couple choices! lol. Too many choices!

That brand you use...Cargill Right Choice Onyx. What color is the mineral? It is such a large company I think and I am leary of using something that is a big corporation company like Purina or Manna Pro. I'd love to support a small company that makes a more natural supplement. But maybe that Onyx is the best choice right now. I need to get them something.

Tami


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## ksalvagno

It is a dark gray color. Find a local mineral that you can easily buy. There are other minerals I would love to try but I can't afford to ship 50 lb bags. So I'm using what seems to be the best mineral I can buy at my local feed store.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Karen can you tell me the names of the ones you would love to try? I'd like to know names/brands so maybe I can look for those here. We have Fertrell Mineral we can get here. The copper is sufate. I'd love to find a good copper chelate since that is the best.

Is it really important to give copper pills if they are getting enough copper in the minerals each day? I'd love not to have to give copper pills at all. So I wondered about that.

Tami


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## ksalvagno

I'd have to look them up again. It has been a long time. There is a woman in northern Indiana that sells a good mineral. I think her name is Jennifer Parrish.

I have to copper bolus at minimum twice a year even with a good mineral. We are just too deficient around here. Copper bolusing is really no big deal and the copper particles kill barberpole on contact for up to 18 hours so there is a bonus to it.


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## sassykat6181

Stacykins said:


> The main problem is there is no Sweetilix distributor with a five hour drive. Though I do occationally pass by a place that sells the stuff when visiting relatives, I am leery about buying a 25lb bag of it if they HATE it. And ordering an 18lb pail from Jeffers means paying through the nose. *I wonder if the company sends out samples? *I just need to know if they'll eat it, then I would go out of my way to buy a supply of sweetlix. I could keep the bag/s in my basement where it is cool and dry.
> 
> I asked my feedstores about Right Now Onyx as well, and none can get it, even with a special order. So I'm kinda boned when it comes to decent mineral availability, other than the 8lb bags of Manna Pro...


I can send you some if you'd like to try it! 

I was ordering it from a local pet/feed store and it took them almost 6 weeks to get it in. Then a new guy opened a feed store in the next town over and he can pick it up at the mill in Connecticut for me. I am paying $22 per 25# bag now. The other place was $24


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## sassykat6181

And because of the iron in our well, I have to copper bolus every 2-3 months. The goats start looking fishtailed and rusty  

I was using a blue seal mineral and was happy with it but then it got discontinued, or only carried as pellets. My girls wouldn't touch the manna pro to save their life


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## Stacykins

If the company doesn't send out samples, I'll definitely hit you up, Sassycat. I just sent am email to Sweetlix asking if they do. Obviously I am willing to pay whatever for the product and shipping. I am just concerned about buying a huge bag of it in case they aren't interested!


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## Buck Naked Boers

I found out that Fertrell has Copper Sulfate in it...I know that is only second choice for absorption. What do you think about this below?? Comments?? Feedback??

Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
Premier Goat Mineral
For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
Guaranteed Analysis:
Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;........................ 14.0 %
Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.......................... 9.0 %
Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, 
Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium 
Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried 
Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A 
Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


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## ksalvagno

That is fine. Copper sulfate isn't bad. If the mineral only has oxides as minerals then don't waste your money.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Can you tell me what you think about the Fertrell mineral everyone?? The ingredients are all GREEK to me. =) Thanks everyone! Tami


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## sassykat6181

You may want to call some of your local feed stores and see if they can get it. The distributor map on the Sweetlix website doesn't show the store that ordered it for me, or the feedmill where the new guy got it


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## Buck Naked Boers

Isn't the copper and selenium rates good in Fertrell Minerals? Or should they be higher on average?


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## ksalvagno

Looks fine to me.


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## Scottyhorse

How do you tell if a mineral has sulfates, oxides, etc? My mineral is high in selenium and copper (why I got it) and the goats eat a lot of it. I lost the label (rather it got thrown away) and I don't see anything on the website.


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## MsScamp

The ingredients should be listed on the label. On mine they are at the bottom under the guaranteed analysis.


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## Buck Naked Boers

I had the label off the website even but ended up calling the company to ask. They are working in the website I guess. But they did tell me what the Copper was. So I suppose you could call the company if you have their ph number. That is what worked for me.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thanks Karen for your thoughts on the Fertrell mineral. Sure looks good to me too. Looks pretty high in copper and selenium and love the probiotics in the product too! That can't hurt my goats!


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## ksalvagno

You would have to look at the label to see the ingredients.


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## fishin816

Hey Karen, you say that copper oxide cant be absorbed. What is the point of giving copper oxide boluses? 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## Buck Naked Boers

I am wondering the same thing....thanks for asking the question Cade!


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## sassykat6181

I think the difference is the copper oxide particles get caught in the stomach and slow release


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## TDG-Farms

Boadertown cattle premix (Boardertown feed in Milton Freewater, OR.)

Still looking for another mix that has the vitamins and minerals that this is missing but have been giving it straight for almost a decade with great results.


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## ksalvagno

I didn't say it can't be absorbed. It isn't absorbed as well as the others. 

That is the good thing about it for boluses though. You want it to be absorbed slowly. That is why it isn't so bad if you overdose a little on the bolus. But it does still serve a purpose and help.


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## agilitymaster01

Do you have a cattle mineral to recommend? I use Sprout mineral, and I thought that was "safe" selenium/copper wise. Can they O.D. on higher amounts of it if it is free choice?


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## fishin816

agilitymaster01 said:


> Do you have a cattle mineral to recommend? I use Sprout mineral, and I thought that was "safe" selenium/copper wise. Can they O.D. on higher amounts of it if it is free choice?


ONYX! CARGILL RIGHT NOW ONYX! Best stuff out there! A lot of users on here use it with great results.

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## Scottyhorse

Cade, there isn't one best mineral. It really depends on the area.


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## ksalvagno

agilitymaster01 said:


> Do you have a cattle mineral to recommend? I use Sprout mineral, and I thought that was "safe" selenium/copper wise. Can they O.D. on higher amounts of it if it is free choice?


What amounts does your mineral have? Generally the cattle minerals are fine and you can feed free choice.


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## TDG-Farms

fishin816 said:


> ONYX! CARGILL RIGHT NOW ONYX! Best stuff out there! A lot of users on here use it with great results.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


I like it but its still lacks in both copper and selenium. 2000 ppm for copper and 75ppm would be the minimum I would accept in any mix. It should also be noted the zinc levels. Zinc is key to strengthening immune system elements. Just like with people.

Onyx does seem to have an overall nice mix other then the above mentioned.


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## fishin816

TDG-Farms said:


> I like it but its still lacks in both copper and selenium. 2000 ppm for copper and 75ppm would be the minimum I would accept in any mix. It should also be noted the zinc levels. Zinc is key to strengthening immune system elements. Just like with people.
> 
> Onyx does seem to have an overall nice mix other then the above mentioned.


The copper MIN is 2500. Zinc is 5000 and selenium is 26, but I supplement selenium so that doesn't really matter. I think it is the best mineral, superior to any other mineral on the market.

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## ksalvagno

fishin816 said:


> I think it is the best mineral, superior to any other mineral on the market.


In your area. 

There are a lot of good minerals out there but they are regional so you can't find them all in your local feed store.


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## fishin816

ksalvagno said:


> In your area.
> 
> There are a lot of good minerals out there but they are regional so you can't find them all in your local feed store.


Ok yeah, in my area. I think it is superior.

Oh and Dave, I am not really copper or selenium deficient, so for ME in my area, mine do just fine with that mineral

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## TDG-Farms

fishin816 said:


> Ok yeah, in my area. I think it is superior.
> 
> Oh and Dave, I am not really copper or selenium deficient, so for ME in my area, mine do just fine with that mineral
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


That would be nice! Here its just lacking in almost everything.


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## Buck Naked Boers

So Dave: This would be a great option then for Zinc and Copper right? Just need to add a bit more selenium right?? When you look at this doesn't this look like a great option for minerals? I love that it has probiotics in it. What say you? Tami

Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
Premier Goat Mineral
For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
Guaranteed Analysis:
Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, 
Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium 
Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried 
Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A 
Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> So Dave: This would be a great option then for Zinc and Copper right? Just need to add a bit more selenium right?? When you look at this doesn't this look like a great option for minerals? I love that it has probiotics in it. What say you? Tami
> 
> Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
> Premier Goat Mineral
> For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
> Guaranteed Analysis:
> Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
> Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
> Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
> Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
> Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
> Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
> Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
> Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
> Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
> Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
> Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
> Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
> Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
> Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract,
> Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium
> Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried
> Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A
> Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
> Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
> Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
> Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
> Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
> Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


YES! That mineral has a GREAT analysis! I would like to feed that mineral!

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## Buck Naked Boers

Thanks for your feedback on that Cade! So how would I go about feeding extra selenium? How do I know how much more to feed them if this (see mineral analysis above) is the mineral I give them? How much more selenium would I feed and what kind? Thank you all for your help!!

Tami


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## sassykat6181

You could order the Selenium/Vitamin E gel from Jeffers and give that once a month or get BoSe from your vet. This is an injection, and depending on your area you'd only need to do once or twice per year. I am giving the injection 4 weeks prior to birthing. I like the gel for kids, since you can put a little on your fingertip and give it to them.


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## ksalvagno

First you will need to find out how the mineral works for your herd. We can't give you an absolute on supplementing copper or selenium because every single farm is different. You will need to try the mineral and see as time goes on how it will do for them.


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## TDG-Farms

I to love that mineral mix. 
Nice high calcium would allow for the option to feed a grass hay instead of alfalfa. Though if I had that mineral mix I would still feed alfalfa cause of all the other goodies it has in it and IMO there is just no substitute for high production dairy goats.

Minimal salt so the weight you are getting is pure mix. I think the reason it says "For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds" with the nice high levels of minerals is because its a premix and is expected to be mixed with salt. Most mixes have 10-30% salt. So with just the 1% max in that you would either need to mix salt into it or maybe have a separate mineral salt available. I think I would do the later to keep the mix pure and as is OR at best maybe add say 10% (5 lbs salt per 50 lbs mineral mix) and see how that would go.

Copper is great as is the Zinc. With the lower selenium you would almost think you might need to add some but if you look it, this mix has vitamin E added as well. Which would help with the bodies ability to absorb the selenium. So it might actually be, when broken down, closer to a mix with say 80 ppm selenium that doesnt have vitamin E.

And then on top of that, the live bacteria sounds like it would help keep rumin nice and active. I am going to serious look into this mix and if affordable enough, will 50/50 it with my premix. It will keep the copper and zinc high while upping the selenium to a nice level (at least for this area) and up the salt count to an acceptable level.

Thanks for posting this mix! 

Well the closest place to us is about 160 miles away in Spokane WA. And could only find one place that offered a price on it. $49.00 per 50 lbs. bag. So for us this maybe well outta our range both in travel and price with as many head as we have. But it is a premix for sure.


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## giddyogoat

This is a vitalix bake molasses tub for goats. I dont have the label on me but can post tomorrow. I like the flexibility. I take them out of the tub and mount them as seen on the sides of my feeders other sizes are available.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I need to find one with little to no salt in it, my goats think it's poison... so do the cows... So, to balance it, I offer two kinds.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Thanks Dave! I sure appreciate the info you shared regarding selenium/salt/ minerals and calcium! Thank you so much! We are newer to goats and still learning so much! We think this looks like a great mineral too and plan to try it with our herd. We can add salt no worries there. Thank you so much we really appreciate any advice! 

One question....we have two wethers so is this a good enough mix for them regarding calculi or should they not have such a rich mineral with calcium? Sorry if this sounds stupid...we are still learning. Tami & Jon


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## Buck Naked Boers

Little Bits and Pieces the one listed above....Fertrell Goat Mineral....doesn't have alot of salt.


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## Stacie1205

Cade, where do you get your minerals? I am near you and need to get a better mineral. The small bags at TSC don't last very long for me. And my feed store has Purina. So who carries it in our area?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

farmerjon said:


> Little Bits and Pieces the one listed above....Fertrell Goat Mineral....doesn't have alot of salt.


Yeah, but there's no distributors anywhere near me with that mineral. They're in Pennsylvania, I'm in California.


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> Thanks for your feedback on that Cade! So how would I go about feeding extra selenium? How do I know how much more to feed them if this (see mineral analysis above) is the mineral I give them? How much more selenium would I feed and what kind? Thank you all for your help!!
> 
> Tami


 I give BoSe injections. I think they are more accurate then the selenium gels, you can give it once or twice a year.

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## Buck Naked Boers

Ok thanks Cade for that info. Yeah wasn't sure if I should give the shots or use the gel. Sounds like gel might be a good option for the little ones though.
Bits and Pieces....ok...yeah not sure what your zip code is but I just searched the Fertrell dist locator and didn't find any in California. We are in Oregon and we have two that carry them not far away. So maybe if you called your feed store though they would carry it....wouldn't hurt to ask them. Maybe they don't know about Fertrell.

Just a thought. Tami


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> Ok thanks Cade for that info. Yeah wasn't sure if I should give the shots or use the gel. Sounds like gel might be a good option for the little ones though.
> Bits and Pieces....ok...yeah not sure what your zip code is but I just searched the Fertrell dist locator and didn't find any in California. We are in Oregon and we have two that carry them not far away. So maybe if you called your feed store though they would carry it....wouldn't hurt to ask them. Maybe they don't know about Fertrell.
> 
> Just a thought. Tami


Yes definitly do the gels for babies! The injection might hurt them!

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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

BoSe shots are just fine for the kids, but gel is just fine too.


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## MorganC

*Ultimate Opinion*

Ok, so now that you bring the mineral comparison up, what's the deal with the selenium; do we need to supplement it or not? I was doing some research on the amounts required for goats and based on what's supplied in most feeds plus the injection, we should all be killing the goats with the amount that we give them! But then, can you really give too much selenium or is it more like a b vitamin which flushes out of the system when the goat gets what it needs? onder:


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## fishin816

MorganC said:


> Ok, so now that you bring the mineral comparison up, what's the deal with the selenium; do we need to supplement it or not? I was doing some research on the amounts required for goats and based on what's supplied in most feeds plus the injection, we should all be killing the goats with the amount that we give them! But then, can you really give too much selenium or is it more like a b vitamin which flushes out of the system when the goat gets what it needs? onder:


Ok with selenium, it needs to be given in smaller amounts, (20-30ppm range), but not too much because it will overdose them and kill them. I only give the shots because I want to be safe, meaning, i don't want my kids to get white muscle disease, and my feed or hay or whatever might somehow be grown in a selenium defiecnt field, so that is why I supplement selenium, I don't really have to, I just want to be safe.

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## ksalvagno

There are no hard and fast rules regarding copper and selenium supplementing. Each individual farm has to figure out for themselves how often it needs to be done, if at all. You need to find out if your area is deficient and how deficient. If you really want to do it right, you should have your soil, hay, water and feed tested. Then once you get all the results, figure out what you need to do from there.


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## fishin816

ksalvagno said:


> There are no hard and fast rules regarding copper and selenium supplementing. Each individual farm has to figure out for themselves how often it needs to be done, if at all. You need to find out if your area is deficient and how deficient. If you really want to do it right, you should have your soil, hay, water and feed tested. Then once you get all the results, figure out what you need to do from there.


Yeah, Exactly. I know every farm does it different...... I was just simply telling what I did.......

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## ksalvagno

You may want to make sure you say that is what you do. Some people may misread it as everyone does it.


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## fishin816

ksalvagno said:


> You may want to make sure you say that is what you do. Some people may misread it as everyone does it.


I probably should......... Thanks Karen, I will next time

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## TDG-Farms

Ok here the deal with selenium.

To much can cause heavy metal poisoning. There is no doubt about that. BUT and this is the the KEY piece of info that most dont know. There are two methods of which they use to separate out selenium from other minerals. The first method used 95%-99% of the time leaves the selenium in a hard to absorb state. This is the sodium selenite you will almost always see in mineral mixes. It is virtually impossible to overdose animals on this. But if you notice there is a huge difference in the levels you will see in different brands. This is because of the big difference in selenium levels through out certain areas. Having a lower selenium level in a mix allows them piece of mind if their product ends up in a place with high selenium levels in the soil. Thus why you will see it typically range from 14-85 ppm. With the 85 ppm the top end on any NON premix.
Now back to that virtually impossible statement. If you live in an area that has a high selenium count in the soil, then you dont want to be giving much if any extra selenium. That is if you are feeding locale grown feed or if your animals are on brows. They are getting enough already. And this leads us into the second method.

The second method uses a process thats natural / organic. Much like the kind of selenium you would find in the feed / brows in high selenium areas. This second method is much more expensive and is very easy for the animals body to absorb. Products with selenium using this method will have much lower stated levels of selenium. And if I am not mistaken it will differ on the ingredient list. Personally I have never seen a mineral mix with natural selenium in it. But I know they are out there. I recall a 50 lbs bag costing about $100.

So the first thing to do is to check your areas selenium levels. Here is a good map to do so.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html
But if you notice, the highest areas are only just over 5 ppm. In a mix that wouldnt mean much if anything but when extracted outta the ground by the locale plant life naturally, it becomes toxic at a substantially lower level as it is easier for animals to absorb it.

Now I am a heavy pusher of higher copper and selenium mixes. If you take a look at my area (SE Washington State) you can see we have almost no selenium here. Because of that super low level, we are able to feed a mix with a very high ppm. (150-180 ppm) with no ill or bad side effects and in fact would incur a number of birthing problems if we didnt use a super high selenium mix.

And in closing Id just like to add. An animals body can not absorb selenium without vitamin E. Now this doesnt mean run out and get vitamin E. Vitamin E is in fresh feeds. Brows mainly but also in fresh harvested hay and grasses. Which adds to the effectiveness of absorption in high selenium areas as they are getting both selenium AND vitamin E together. For lower level areas, its always good to feed a hay from the current year. 
BO-Se is a combination of both selenium and vitamin E. But for a more effective absorption of the selenium in Bo-Se, it helps to add a vitamin E gel pill as well every time you give it.

Now I am no expert on this nor do I know your areas. But after a lot of research over the years, this is what I have learned. We practice it here and have outstanding results. We dont have floppy kid syndrome (thanks to the adding of the vitamin E gel to bo se shots) and we dont have any of the typical problems that goats have when low on selenium. Because of the very high levels of selenium and copper in our mix, the only bo se we ever gives is right when a kid is born. 1 cc and a vit E gel pill contents. We dont have to give boosters and dont need to do copper boluses. What we use works for us and that is what everyone should research and find on their own. Suggestions her are just that. There is no one thing that will work for everyone. Good luck


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## Woody_Glen_Farm

Thanks for the great information TDG, especially about the selenium. I too live in a selenium deficient area. I have been looking for satisfactory minerals and today I bought some cattle minerals at TSC (Purina). I compared the minerals to Manna Pro Goat which I had been using and they were the same except 1) the copper is lower-- 1200 ppm and 2) the selenium is higher by about double. I bolus my goats with COWP so I'm not as worried about the amount of copper in it. The price of it is CONSIDERABLY lower (50lbs for $20). What do you think of it? I think I will also be giving the girls selenium/E gel before kidding.


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## fishin816

Woody_Glen_Farm said:


> Thanks for the great information TDG, especially about the selenium. I too live in a selenium deficient area. I have been looking for satisfactory minerals and today I bought some cattle minerals at TSC (Purina). I compared the minerals to Manna Pro Goat which I had been using and they were the same except 1) the copper is lower-- 1200 ppm and 2) the selenium is higher by about double. I bolus my goats with COWP so I'm not as worried about the amount of copper in it. The price of it is CONSIDERABLY lower (50lbs for $20). What do you think of it? I think I will also be giving the girls selenium/E gel before kidding.


If I am not mistaken you are from Nigerian Dwarfs Ning Forum right? Could you post the analysis tag of the minerala you got?

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## Woody_Glen_Farm

I am over on that forum a lot! Here is an image of the tag... Hope it's readable!








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## fishin816

It looks like a halfway decent mineral. I personally like the MannaPro better though. 

I am Travis and Cade Cockburn on the other fourm, lol. 


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## fishin816

Oh and that calcium/phosphorus ratio is out of whack on the cattle mineral


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## Woody_Glen_Farm

I've been concerned about the ammonium chloride in the Manna Pro for my does. I think I'll keep my bucks on it but put my does on this instead. Manna Pro is $10 for 8#s and this one is $20 for 50#s!! A lot cheaper if they like it and I can supplement the copper. If I'm not seeing something obvious, someone please tell me?


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## fishin816

Woody_Glen_Farm said:


> I've been concerned about the ammonium chloride in the Manna Pro for my does. I think I'll keep my bucks on it but put my does on this instead. Manna Pro is $10 for 8#s and this one is $20 for 50#s!! A lot cheaper if they like it and I can supplement the copper. If I'm not seeing something obvious, someone please tell me?


The AC is perfectly fine for your does, it will not hurt them. There isnt even very much AC in mannapro. You are missing there is an unbakanced Ca ratio....... Mannapro is better

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## sassykat6181

The ratio on that mineral is about 3:1 2:1 is ideal, but the good thing is the phosphorus is low and the calcium is high. I believe a higher phosphorus content is what leads to urinary calculi.


----------



## ksalvagno

Woody_Glen_Farm said:


> Thanks for the great information TDG, especially about the selenium. I too live in a selenium deficient area. I have been looking for satisfactory minerals and today I bought some cattle minerals at TSC (Purina). I compared the minerals to Manna Pro Goat which I had been using and they were the same except 1) the copper is lower-- 1200 ppm and 2) the selenium is higher by about double. I bolus my goats with COWP so I'm not as worried about the amount of copper in it. The price of it is CONSIDERABLY lower (50lbs for $20). What do you think of it? I think I will also be giving the girls selenium/E gel before kidding.


That actually is not a good mineral at all. The types of minerals are oxides and they are not absorbed well. You really want to see chelates or sulfates.


----------



## Woody_Glen_Farm

The only oxides I see are magnesium (which is oxide in all the other minerals I looked at) and iron. The copper is low and not sure what copper chloride is either, but will continue to bolus for copper anyway. The 2:1 ideal ratio of calcium to phosphorus is not a concern in the minerals if you are feeding grain since grain is basically phosphorous so the higher calcium in the minerals helps balance that. The biggest problem I see with this mineral is the lack of vitamin E as TDG pointed out is necessary to absorb the selenium. Thanks for all your input.


----------



## TDG-Farms

Dont really mind the offset of cal vs phos to much. And if you are feeding your does grain, that would equal it all out about right. Just a reminder that wethers shouldnt get and dont need grain.

As for the mix. The copper isnt terrible but the selenium is on the very low end. Expecially if you are in a low level area.

There is no ideal mineral mix out there. At least not one that isnt prescribed by a Vet and mixed at a locale mill. Besides that, your best bet is to start calling all the feed stores within say 100 miles of your location to see if anyone mixes their own. As its being sold locally, it will be made for locale needs with locales having input into its creation.


----------



## Scottyhorse

I'm excited to get some of the mineral that Dave uses! My mom drives that way 4 days a week at least so it will be easy to get. What's the price on it, Dave?


----------



## TDG-Farms

I wanna say $26.50 per 50 lbs bag. Oregon so no taxes  Ill be calling my vet tomorrow to most like come out and induce my super preggers doe Clyde and going to talk to him about getting a prescription formulated for this area. I know there was a mill in Hermiston or Umitilla that used to be able to mix up prescription minerals and will see if they still can or know of anyone else.

here is what I am thinking but will run it by the Vet for confirmation. Plus minus a few %

Calcium 15%
Phosphorus 7% 
Salt 20%
Selenium 100-140 ppm
Copper 2000-3000 ppm
Cobalt
Zinc
Magnesium (maybe. to much can cause urinary tract problems in bucks/wethers and it tastes nasty.)
Potassium
Iron or Iodine
Vitamin A, D and E (will E being factored at the correct level vs the ppm of selenium)

There will be others but these are the main ingredients that Ill be after. Would kinda like it to look like *Golden Blend Goat Minerals. *But with substantially higher copper and and selenium.

OR if this one had the right levels of copper and selenium, id almost settle for it. But for what it is, not a bad mix with 50 ppm selenium
*Ultralyx® 16:8 Goat Mineral (10468)*


----------



## fishin816

TDG-Farms said:


> I wanna say $26.50 per 50 lbs bag. Oregon so no taxes  Ill be calling my vet tomorrow to most like come out and induce my super preggers doe Clyde and going to talk to him about getting a prescription formulated for this area. I know there was a mill in Hermiston or Umitilla that used to be able to mix up prescription minerals and will see if they still can or know of anyone else.
> 
> here is what I am thinking but will run it by the Vet for confirmation. Plus minus a few %
> 
> Calcium 15%
> Phosphorus 7%
> Salt 20%
> Selenium 100-140 ppm
> Copper 2000-3000 ppm
> Cobalt
> Zinc
> Magnesium (maybe. to much can cause urinary tract problems in bucks/wethers and it tastes nasty.)
> Potassium
> Iron or Iodine
> Vitamin A, D and E (will E being factored at the correct level vs the ppm of selenium)
> 
> There will be others but these are the main ingredients that Ill be after. Would kinda like it to look like *Golden Blend Goat Minerals. *But with substantially higher copper and and selenium.
> 
> OR if this one had the right levels of copper and selenium, id almost settle for it. But for what it is, not a bad mix with 50 ppm selenium
> *Ultralyx® 16:8 Goat Mineral (10468)*


Ultralyx is SWEETLIX too right??????? Its the same thing isnt it?

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## Buck Naked Boers

I got my Fertrell goat mineral....tried it with my goats. It is greyish in color. We supplement with reddish mineral salts since the salt content is down a bit. But the mineral looks great I think.

Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
Premier Goat Mineral
For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
Guaranteed Analysis:
Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, 
Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium 
Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried 
Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A 
Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


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## Buck Naked Boers

Has anyone heard of this goat feed or tried it with their goats?? It looks like a really great option for feed. Can you please give your feedback on this??

http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/goat-feed/

This feed looks really great....better than pellets right?

Any feedback? Feed out of Washington State.

What cha' all think?


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> I got my Fertrell goat mineral....tried it with my goats. It is greyish in color. We supplement with reddish mineral salts since the salt content is down a bit. But the mineral looks great I think.
> 
> Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
> Premier Goat Mineral
> For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
> Guaranteed Analysis:
> Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
> Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
> Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
> Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
> Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
> Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
> Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
> Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
> Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
> Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
> Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
> Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
> Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
> Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract,
> Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium
> Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried
> Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A
> Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
> Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
> Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
> Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
> Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
> Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


No salt. Take it away. Goats need to be driven to their MINERAL NEEDS. Not their greedy salt wantings (lol!) so take that extra salt away. The reason goats go to their minerals is because of the salt, if you give them extra salt, they will take the salt and not the minerals. That salt content is fine. Curious if your goats are eating the Fertell?

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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> Has anyone heard of this goat feed or tried it with their goats?? It looks like a really great option for feed. Can you please give your feedback on this??
> 
> http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/goat-feed/
> 
> This feed looks really great....better than pellets right?
> 
> Any feedback? Feed out of Washington State.
> 
> What cha' all think?


YES! I would love to feed that to my herd! I love the ingredients!

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## LGFarm

My guys chase me down for it. Well, they chase the feed scoop down for anything, but we have had up to 25 goats and everyone loves it, I was going through a 25 lb bag every month.



Stacykins said:


> The main problem is there is no Sweetilix distributor with a five hour drive. Though I do occationally pass by a place that sells the stuff when visiting relatives, I am leery about buying a 25lb bag of it if they HATE it. And ordering an 18lb pail from Jeffers means paying through the nose. *I wonder if the company sends out samples? *I just need to know if they'll eat it, then I would go out of my way to buy a supply of sweetlix. I could keep the bag/s in my basement where it is cool and dry.
> 
> I asked my feedstores about Right Now Onyx as well, and none can get it, even with a special order. So I'm kinda boned when it comes to decent mineral availability, other than the 8lb bags of Manna Pro...


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## Buck Naked Boers

Hi Cade! Yes my eldest wether did love the mineral. The other two goats I have I believe both had a little of the mineral as well. What I thought is perhaps I could add a bit of extra salt into the mix?? I completely agree with what you said about the salt. I want them to get enough of the mineral though too. Maybe I could mix it into their feed? But it seemed like the mineral mix my wether liked. 

Yes I agree about the feed.....I thought it looked really good but wasn't positive so thought I'd ask all you experts! lol. I am a newbie to goats and thought this feed looked good. The place that carries the fertrell mineral also carries the scratch and peck feed for goats. 

Any other feedback from other people regarding the feed?? 

Tami


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## TDG-Farms

Need to add 10-20% by volume, salt. So if the bag weights 40 lbs, should add 4-8 lbs. Personally Id just add another 10 lbs. Many mineral mixes have way more then that. Even as much as 40%+. Id guess I dont have to mention to not use house salt.


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## Scottyhorse

I agree, I would add a little more salt.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Ok I will add more salt....thanks for letting me know I appreciate it! The boys are eating the mineral quite well. I have been supplementing with salt as well. tami


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## wendylou

Ok so I want to make sure what kind of selenium is in my area. Am I low? Or am I high? I'm not sure how to read this and what all this means? Can someone help me here?lol. I'm so sorry








Wendy Lou


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## fishin816

You have about mid levels. I would give a Bo-Se or a gel once a year. 


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## wendylou

Thank you!! 


Wendy Lou


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## wendylou

What number do u read on the chart to see what level it is? And compare to? 


Wendy Lou


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## Stacykins

Sweetlix cannot provide samples, btw. I sort of expected that, but it was nice to hear back from them at least.


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## sassykat6181

Stacykins said:


> Sweetlix cannot provide samples, btw. I sort of expected that, but it was nice to hear back from them at least.


I can send you a sandwich bag full in the mail if you want to try it. I like it and the goats gobble it up. Has a licorice type smell to it


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## sweetgoats

That is great stuff. I can't get the sweetlix around here anymore. 

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## Stacykins

I went with getting some Sweetlix from Jeffers. 18lbs can definitely go a long way. It arrived today and they already love it. I put some in the mineral feeder and they all swarmed to lick some up. I was ordering something from Jeffers anyway, so it worked out well. 

Looks like it will be safe to get a couple big bag of Sweetlix from a supplier in WI when I go visit family. I assume if kept cool and dry in the basement, it will stay good for a long time.


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## mirage_mp

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but it seemed related enough.  In reference to Copper and selenium deficient areas (NW here). I discovered ultracruz copper/selenium bolus for goats on Santa Cruz (scbt.com, or amazon.com). My question is, could I use that instead of both a copper bolus and Bo-Se?


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## ksalvagno

You can. I would just watch things closely. The problem I have with both being in one pill is that you can't control how much they get in that one dose and what happens if they need copper more often than selenium? There is no set timeframe on how often your goats will need the supplement so I don't care for the "one size fits all" of a bolus with 2 supplements in it.


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## fishin816

Yeah I think the copper and bo-se would be better than the combined copper/sel bolus. I do like ultracruzs boluses, they really improved my goats overall health when I gave it to them. 


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## Stacykins

Speaking of Santa Cruz Biotechnology, the website isn't loading at all for me. I've tried two different internet sources. Nothing has been coming up. I need to order more copper boli.


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## fishin816

Stacykins said:


> Speaking of Santa Cruz Biotechnology, the website isn't loading at all for me. I've tried two different internet sources. Nothing has been coming up. I need to order more copper boli.


You could order copper from PBS, Jeffers, ValleyVet, any place like that has it. You can also order copasure boluses for cows

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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ditto what Cade said. I'd also like to add, when I do BoSe shots, I like doing the AD&E shots too, that way they get plenty of E to absorb selenium, and they get the D³ which is good in the winter months when there isn't much sun, and they get the vitamin A.


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## Stacykins

fishin816 said:


> You could order copper from PBS, Jeffers, ValleyVet, any place like that has it. You can also order copasure boluses for cows


I prefer Santa Cruz Biotechnology to all the other places. The cost per gram is the best, even when shipping is factored in. *The quality is the exact same*, since I have ordered the other stuff before. The website is working this morning this morning.

The Copasure cattle bolus at Jeffers has 312.5 grams of CuO and costs $45.95. 45.95/312.5=$0.147 per gram. 
*
The copasure goat goat bolus at jeffers (the 4 gram) has 48 grams total and costs 24.95. 24.95/48=$0.519 per gram. That is ridiculously high! *

Anyway, the cost of the copper bolus at Santa Cruz Biotechnology work out like this:
25x2g is $12. That works out to $0.24 per gram
25x4g is $13 that works out to $0.13 per gram
100x4g is $48 that works out to $0.12 cents per gram. 
BTW, these all calculated out without thousandths, which is why they are not there.

It literally pays to do the math


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## scubacoz

How would I know if my goats need copper or selenium? I have a pregnant one due early May and want to be sure she is covered.


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## fishin816

scubacoz said:


> How would I know if my goats need copper or selenium? I have a pregnant one due early May and want to be sure she is covered.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


I would just give her a BoSe injection about a month before kidding, and a copper bolus after kidding. That should cover her 

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## scubacoz

Ok thanks, what is Bo Se?



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## fishin816

BoSe is a selenium and vitamin E injection given by perscription by your vet. I order my BoSe through Valley Vet, and Valley Vet calls your vet and they will ok it. I usually get mine in about a week 


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## scubacoz

Thank you so much


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## scubacoz

I have another question, my pregnant does guns are a pale pink. I wormed her about 2 weeks ago and they are still pale. What can I give her to help?


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## fishin816

scubacoz said:


> I have another question, my pregnant does guns are a pale pink. I wormed her about 2 weeks ago and they are still pale. What can I give her to help?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Guns? You mean eyes? Pink is what you WANT. That means they are free of worms 

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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I think she meant gums Cade 

Check her lower eyelid color by pulling the lid down slightly and look at the color of the membrane. If it is pale, she needs wormed, if its dark pink or deep red, she should be good to go.
The pale color indicates anaemia due to bloodsucking parasites. Keep in mind, they can still have worms if they have good membrane color though.


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## fishin816

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I think she meant gums Cade
> 
> Check her lower eyelid color by pulling the lid down slightly and look at the color of the membrane. It is pale, she needs wormed, if its dark pink or deep red, she should be good to go.
> The pale color indicates anaemia due to bloodsucking parasites. Keep in mind, they can still have worms if they have good membrane color.


GUMS! Lol! That was obvious!

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## scubacoz

Lol, yes I meant to say gums not Guns! LOL


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## scubacoz

I checked her lower eyelid it is a light pink prob about midway on the scale. 


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## scubacoz

I called the vet she recommended to use Valbazan


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## scubacoz

Sorry Albendezol is what she recommended!


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## fishin816

scubacoz said:


> Sorry Albendezol is what she recommended!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Whoa, I am glad you got that straight! Valbazen is deadly to pregnant does!

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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Cade, it's not deadly to pregnant does, it just has a possibility of causing birth defects or deformities in the kids, or having the doe abort the kids.
That said, I won't use it unless I'm certain they aren't bred, because I have witnessed deformities in puppies when it was used on a pregnant female


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## scubacoz

I am glad I got that straight also. 


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## scubacoz

Since this is a mineral topic I have another question. I was told by the manager of the feed store that you can use the cow minerals for goats. Is thus true? I am having problems finding big bags of goat minerals!


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## fishin816

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Cade, it's not deadly to pregnant does, it just has a possibility of causing birth defects or deformities in the kids, or having the doe abort the kids.
> That said, I won't use it unless I'm certain they aren't bred, because I have witnessed deformities in puppies when it was used on a pregnant female


I knew it was something like that&#8230; I just knew it was terribly unsafe for pregnant does&#8230; so I assumed that was what it was&#8230; lol

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## fishin816

scubacoz said:


> Since this is a mineral topic I have another question. I was told by the manager of the feed store that you can use the cow minerals for goats. Is thus true? I am having problems finding big bags of goat minerals!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


I use cattle minerals, I use Cargill Right Now Onyx. I have not really seen a lot of good cattle minerals (for goats that is) in my area, other than Onyx. I have found that Onyx is the best cow mineral I can get. See if your feed store can order you that mineral, because most feed stores dipo not stoxk it regularly. If your feed store is a Nutrena dealer, they can get you the Onyx  Good l

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## alikat72

*Anyone use this mineral?*

If I'm reading the map correctly, my county is low in Selenium but ok in Copper? http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/county.php?place=f48059&el=Cu&rf=south-central

Element	Symbol	Mean Std. dev. Minimum	Maximum
Aluminum	Al (wt%)	3.760 0.793 1.897	5.334
Arsenic	As (ppm)	5.615 0.968 3.201 7.492
Calcium	Ca (wt%)	1.211 0.618 0.260 3.860
Copper	Cu (ppm)	15.912 3.591 7.177 20.881
Iron	Fe (wt%) 1.659 0.396 0.738	2.328
Mercury	Hg (ppm)	0.016 0.003 0.010	0.020
Magnesium	Mg (wt%)	0.315 0.084 0.134	0.526
Manganese	Mn (ppm)	399.803 130.257 212.749	816.000
Sodium	Na (wt%)	0.231 0.024 0.170	0.325
Phosphorus	P (wt%)	0.028 0.006 0.013	0.038
Lead	Pb (ppm) 16.788 2.525	12.002	22.980
Selenium	Se (ppm)	0.118 0.022	0.100 0.189
Titanium	Ti (wt%)	0.233 0.035	0.158 0.300
Zinc	Zn (ppm) 65.649 16.248	36.766	104.881


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## fishin816

alikat72 said:


> If I'm reading the map correctly, my county is low in Selenium but ok in Copper? http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/county.php?place=f48059&el=Cu&rf=south-central
> 
> ElementSymbolMean Std. dev. MinimumMaximum
> 
> AluminumAl (wt%)3.760 0.793 1.8975.334
> 
> ArsenicAs (ppm)5.615 0.968 3.201 7.492
> 
> CalciumCa (wt%)1.211 0.618 0.260 3.860
> 
> CopperCu (ppm)15.912 3.591 7.177 20.881
> 
> IronFe (wt%) 1.659 0.396 0.7382.328
> 
> MercuryHg (ppm)0.016 0.003 0.0100.020
> 
> MagnesiumMg (wt%)0.315 0.084 0.1340.526
> 
> ManganeseMn (ppm)399.803 130.257 212.749816.000
> 
> SodiumNa (wt%)0.231 0.024 0.1700.325
> 
> PhosphorusP (wt%)0.028 0.006 0.0130.038
> 
> LeadPb (ppm) 16.788 2.52512.00222.980
> 
> SeleniumSe (ppm)0.118 0.0220.100 0.189
> 
> TitaniumTi (wt%)0.233 0.0350.158 0.300
> 
> ZincZn (ppm) 65.649 16.24836.766104.881


You are pretty selenium defiecent&#8230; thats what BoSe is for&#8230; and you are good in copper

One thing I noticed&#8230; your mineral looks absolutley fabulous&#8230; minus the fact of of its really low copper. Have you had any problems with copper defiency? Not trying to change how you give your herd minerals&#8230; just asking. 

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## fishin816

fishin816 said:


> You are pretty selenium defiecent&#8230; thats what BoSe is for&#8230; and you are good in copper
> 
> One thing I noticed&#8230; your mineral looks absolutley fabulous&#8230; minus the fact of of its really low copper. Have you had any problems with copper defiency? Not trying to change how you give your herd minerals&#8230; just asking.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Sorry sorry sorry! I was looking at the Cobalt! That mineral looks fabulous!

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## alikat72

I haven't had any trouble, I don't think anyway. Still learning. Just bought this Bryant mineral. I use some of their other products. I like that they are produced here in Texas.


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## scubacoz

Not sure how to read this, but this us the county I am in 



Average concentrations of elements in Medina County, Texas

(Calculated from cells in the geochemical grid plotting in this area.)
ElementSymbolMeanStd. dev.MinimumMaximum
AluminumAl (wt%)3.6740.5281.7295.371
ArsenicAs (ppm)7.0041.4593.14412.581
CalciumCa (wt%)12.3166.3630.42429.562
CopperCu (ppm)14.8894.3714.32641.150
IronFe (wt%)1.6600.2570.8312.427
MercuryHg (ppm)0.0170.0050.0100.034
MagnesiumMg (wt%)0.4940.0920.0950.683
ManganeseMn (ppm)338.24562.168158.866573.932
SodiumNa (wt%)0.1360.0610.0610.504
PhosphorusP (wt%)0.0480.0140.0120.110
LeadPb (ppm)21.0434.2538.07732.317
SeleniumSe (ppm)0.3460.0810.1220.785
TitaniumTi (wt%)0.2290.0360.0970.319
ZincZn (ppm)42.6688.14617.49164.926
Click here to download point data




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## fishin816

scubacoz said:


> Not sure how to read this, but this us the county I am in
> 
> Average concentrations of elements in Medina County, Texas
> 
> (Calculated from cells in the geochemical grid plotting in this area.)
> ElementSymbolMeanStd. dev.MinimumMaximum
> AluminumAl (wt%)3.6740.5281.7295.371
> ArsenicAs (ppm)7.0041.4593.14412.581
> CalciumCa (wt%)12.3166.3630.42429.562
> CopperCu (ppm)14.8894.3714.32641.150
> IronFe (wt%)1.6600.2570.8312.427
> MercuryHg (ppm)0.0170.0050.0100.034
> MagnesiumMg (wt%)0.4940.0920.0950.683
> ManganeseMn (ppm)338.24562.168158.866573.932
> SodiumNa (wt%)0.1360.0610.0610.504
> PhosphorusP (wt%)0.0480.0140.0120.110
> LeadPb (ppm)21.0434.2538.07732.317
> SeleniumSe (ppm)0.3460.0810.1220.785
> TitaniumTi (wt%)0.2290.0360.0970.319
> ZincZn (ppm)42.6688.14617.49164.926
> Click here to download point data
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


You are pretty good with copper&#8230; selenium is a bit low. But you can supplement with BoSe.

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## scubacoz

Ok thanks, that's what I thought but wasn't sure. 


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## fishin816

I have a mineral question for a change&#8230; for Dave if he wants to jump on. How do you like this mineral?








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## CritterCarnival

fishin816 said:


> I have a mineral question for a change&#8230; for Dave if he wants to jump on. How do you like this mineral?
> View attachment 63962
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


The copper and selenium levels are some of the better numbers I've seen in goat minerals, but the calcium/phosphorus ratio is off. Calcium needs to be about double the phosphorus, the ratio is almost even in this one. Feeding some alfalfa would help bring the calcium level up.

All in all, pretty decent numbers.


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## fishin816

CritterCarnival said:


> The copper and selenium levels are some of the better numbers I've seen in goat minerals, but the calcium/phosphorus ratio is off. Calcium needs to be about double the phosphorus, the ratio is almost even in this one. Feeding some alfalfa would help bring the calcium level up.
> 
> All in all, pretty decent numbers.


What about this one?








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## TDG-Farms

I actually like the equine one better. Higher calcium to get you into that 2:1 ratio. Id like to drop the magnesium a bit and up the selenium to min 75 for my area at least. But looks good. I like the zinc and vit. levels.

It just dawned on me, that if feed stores go through the effort of having a custom salt done, maybe they would be open to doing a goat one. Ill have to see if the feed store I get mine from would do so.


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## fishin816

Thanks so much Dave! 


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## fishin816

One more question Dave… would I need to add salt to that mineral? Because I am not seeing any salt in the analysis… 


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## Stacykins

fishin816 said:


> One more question Dave&#8230; would I need to add salt to that mineral? Because I am not seeing any salt in the analysis&#8230;
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Technically, you are seeing a lot of salt on that label  just not sodium chloride, table salt. For example, the copper sulfate, sodium selenite, cobalt sulfate, manganese sulfate, etc. are all salts.


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## TDG-Farms

They would indeed need salt above just this.


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## TDG-Farms

Here is what I think would be the perfect mineral mix for low selenium areas.

Calcium 12%-16%
Phosphorus 6%-8%
Magnesium 5%
Sulfur 5%
Salt (naCl) 20%-25%
Zinc 5000-7000 ppm
Copper 3000 ppm
Iodine 500-800 ppm
Selenium 85-100 ppm
Cobalt ??? ppm

Vit A 500,000 IU/lb
Vit D3 250,000 IU/lb
Vit E 1000-2000 IU/lb

This would pretty much be my ideal mix. Which Ill see if the feed store can do.


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## fishin816

Dave, do you think that I am covered with selenium? Right now I am giving the Onyx minerals (26-35 selenium), and my area is not really selenium deficent… and I give BoSe, selenium gel, and various other supplements that contain selenium. Do you think that is enough selenium? 


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## TDG-Farms

sounds like you are good.


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## Buck Naked Boers

My mineral is lacking in a few areas Dave of what you'd consider 'ideal'. I don't see any sulfur and levels of copper are lacking. I plan to give copper pills though at recommended doseages. So if I add copper pills and they are getting this mineral do you think that is enough or should I switch minerals?

http://www.fertrell.com/analysis_tags/Goat_tag38.pdf

I like that this has probiotics in it and other things. They just aren't at the high levels you'd like in your mineral. Wish someone made a mineral with those levels!

Would like to know your thoughts on this when you have time.

Tami


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> My mineral is lacking in a few areas Dave of what you'd consider 'ideal'. I don't see any sulfur and levels of copper are lacking. I plan to give copper pills though at recommended doseages. So if I add copper pills and they are getting this mineral do you think that is enough or should I switch minerals?
> 
> http://www.fertrell.com/analysis_tags/Goat_tag38.pdf
> 
> I like that this has probiotics in it and other things. They just aren't at the high levels you'd like in your mineral. Wish someone made a mineral with those levels!
> 
> Would like to know your thoughts on this when you have time.
> 
> Tami


If the Fertrell is working fir you, I would keep feeding it. It is pretty low in selenium, but you can supplement that. I remember you sayimg that you mix Redmond salt in your mineral right? Redmond makes a mineral with 90ppm selenium, so you could start mixing that with your mineral as well. Then you can give the BoSe injections, and the copper boluses. I personally really like your mineral, and would love to feed it.

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## TDG-Farms

Actually the copper level is perfect at 3000 ppm with no need to bolus at that level. Nor is there a need for bo-se boosters other then pre breeding season if someone wanted to. Here we only give the boosters to the bucks. But thats mainly cause they break their mineral feeders and often go without. But here is the final draft I sent to my feed store.



Calcium 12%-16% (would prefer 16%)
Phosphorus 6%-8% (would prefer 8%)
Magnesium 5%
Sulfur 5%
Salt (naCl) 20%-25%
Zinc 5000-7000 ppm
Copper 3000 ppm
Iodine 500-800 ppm
Selenium 90-100 ppm
Cobalt ??? ppm

Vit A 500,000 IU/lb
Vit D3 250,000 IU/lb
Vit E 1000-2000 IU/lb

Left some flexibility in hopes to keep each 50 lbs bag under $30.00 Also, need to do more research on the cobalt. Not sure if trace amounts that dont register on the analyses is enough or if it would be better raised up to actually warrant a ppm. And I posed the question, whats the max ppm of selenium does Oregon law require a mix to be marked as a premix OR require a prescription. I believe here in Washington State its 80 or 85 ppm. So will have to hear what they say about that.


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## Buck Naked Boers

Actually the zinc is 3000....not the copper. So I think I still need to bolus....right?

Can you look at it again? =) tami


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## TDG-Farms

Ya If its not up around the 2500-3000 ppm, I think it wouldnt hurt.

I have been talking with the feed store and they are open to the idea of making the mix. So I sent them a long email explaining exact why each thing was important and why at the suggest level it is. Am hopeful.


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## Darlaj

U have to let me know if they make it would love to have that min.... Am I correct that u have no need to give Bose injections with that?


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## TDG-Farms

yep no need. Dont even need to booster the girls for breeding season. Just the bucks. But as said, they tend to go without cause I cant come up with a feeder they dont break or bust off whatever its strapped to.


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## fishin816

The mineral I am getting has 3000ppm copper. But I am going to be getting Redmond salt to mix in with it, because of my new mineral lacking salt. But this salt contains 300ppm iron, would that much iron cancel out all that copper? Would I need to bolus with the high copper mineral with salt with iron? And how much salt should I add per pound of mineral? 


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## TDG-Farms

Actually Id like to see a bit of iron in a mineral mix for me cause we dont have any in our water. I cant say for sure but I think you would be ok. 300 ppm vs 3000 ppm I just dont see canceling it out.


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## Buck Naked Boers

So found out the analysis on the fertrell website isn't the right one, and I had posted the right one on this thread before just forgot. So here it is...

Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
Premier Goat Mineral
For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
Guaranteed Analysis:
Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, 
Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium 
Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried 
Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A 
Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese, 
Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


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## fishin816

farmerjon said:


> So found out the analysis on the fertrell website isn't the right one, and I had posted the right one on this thread before just forgot. So here it is...
> 
> Fertrell Nutri-Balancer
> Premier Goat Mineral
> For Further Manufacture of Goat Feeds
> Guaranteed Analysis:
> Calcium (min)&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.................... .... 14.0 %
> Calcium (max)&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 16.0 %
> Phosphorus (min)&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...................... .... 9.0 %
> Salt (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. .5 %
> Salt (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;... 1.0 % Magnesium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230; 4.0 %
> Selenium (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;. 30 PPM
> Selenium (max)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;... 33 PPM
> Zinc (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;.. 3,000 PPM
> Copper (min)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230; 2,200 PPM
> Copper (max)&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2,300 PPM Vitamin A (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.. 350,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin D3 (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;&#8230;.....................&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;. 80,000 IU/LB
> Vitamin E (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 3,500 IU/LB
> Total Live Yeast* Cell Count (min) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;....&#8230; 25 Billion CFU***/LB
> Lactic Acid Bacteria** (min)&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;&#8230;.&#8230;...60 Million CFU***/LB (*Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, **Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum.) *** Colony Forming Units.
> Ingredients: Monocalcium Phosphate, Shellflour , Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal,
> Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dried Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract,
> Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium
> Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried
> Lactobacillus plantarum Product, Magneium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A
> Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of Manganese,
> Polysaccharide Complex of Iron, Polysaccharide Complex of Copper, Cobalt Sulfate, Organic Vegetable Oil.
> Feeding Directions: Feed Premier Goat Mineral in addition to grain, protein and forages. Dairy Goats : 1/2 oz. -3/4 oz. per animal per day. Meat Goat: 3/4 oz. per animal per day. Consult your local Fertrell Dealer for more information about feeding Premier Goat Mineral.
> Caution: Follow label feeding directions. The addition to feed at higher levels of this premix containing selenium is not permitted. Do not feed to sheep or lambs as this product contains high levels of copper.
> Manufactured by The Fertrell Company
> Bainbridge, Pennsylvania, 17502 www.fertrell.com
> Net Weight 50 LB (22.67 Kg)


I would stick with it if it is working for your goats 

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## Buck Naked Boers

Yeah I may just do that....it seems like it is a great mineral. I am thankful it has probiotics in the mineral. Their isnt any sulfur and salt content isn't high but I can always add salt.


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## AlecBGreen

Im looking for a mineral mix and Ive heard good things about Fertrells Premier Goat Mineral. When I go to their website however Im seeing different numbers than what yall have posted. Here is what I see:

http://www.fertrell.com/analysis_tags/Goat_tag38.pdf

The copper looks way low (600ppm) on the link I have compared to what you are posting (Cade & Tami). Any ideas?

Ive been using a local mix but my herd is showing serious copper deficiency still. I have an order of Right Now Onyx coming this week so Ill see how they respond to that. Also have boluses but I need to weigh them out and give them.


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## Hollowdweller

I think the cheapest mineral possible that will keep your goats healthy is the one you want.

Minerals should never be used as an attempt to get around inadequate or unbalanced feeding practices.

Also remember if your herd will only do well on expensive esoteric mineral and feed mixes you should consciously breed for animals that do not require these things as one of your goals.


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## fishin816

AlecBGreen said:


> Im looking for a mineral mix and Ive heard good things about Fertrells Premier Goat Mineral. When I go to their website however Im seeing different numbers than what yall have posted. Here is what I see:
> 
> http://www.fertrell.com/analysis_tags/Goat_tag38.pdf
> 
> The copper looks way low (600ppm) on the link I have compared to what you are posting (Cade & Tami). Any ideas?
> 
> Ive been using a local mix but my herd is showing serious copper deficiency still. I have an order of Right Now Onyx coming this week so Ill see how they respond to that. Also have boluses but I need to weigh them out and give them.


No need to get the Fertrell if you have the Onyx coming! That mineral has done WONDERS for my herd, I pick Onyx any day over the Fertrell.

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## Buck Naked Boers

AlecBGreen....the one we posted above is the correct one. I called their company and they sent me the correct info. I don't know why they haven't changed it on their website.....just FYI. The mineral is pretty good that they put out!


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## jmansheim7

*Mineral Comparison Review*

I have read all of the posts and it I would like to comment on what mineral has helped my heard the most. I am an avid believer in an animals, God given instinct to know what it needs to eat. If animals were free to roam, they themselves, would choose what trees, plants and shrubs to eat to provide them their natural minerals. Since most of us keep them in small pastures or lots, we must succumb to supply them man made minerals.

Premade minerals give the animal no choice, in allowing it to choose how much of one mineral it needs. It therefore must eat all the minerals in the mix in order to gain the benefits of any mineral, they are lacking in. This does not give the animal free choice but forces it to over eat minerals its body does not require. Eventually you will begin to see signs of a mineral imbalance. Mineral imbalances show up in various ways. Most of all sicknesses and diseases, can be linked to a mineral imbalance.

I prefer to offer my animals natural minerals that they themselves can choose to eat whatever they are lacking in. I have witnessed the improvements and the lack of any sicknesses or diseases that plague most herds. My goats always remain healthy and this reduces my costs of veterinary bills, medicine and time caring for sick animals.

If you want your animals to always be healthy and able to resist any sicknesses and diseases, then I strongly urge everyone who owns any type of animal, to buy and read, Pat Coleby's books. She has books on how to properly care for all sorts of animals and I can testify to the fact that her methods work and work 100% of the time.

It is a proven fact that all most all animals with any form of health issues are lacking in some form of mineral. Why let your animals health suffer when there is a simple, cost effective and efficient method of providing minerals that always work. I honestly can not say enough about her methods. I urge all of you to put hearsay to the test and try Pat Coleby's methods yourself. You will not be disappointed and the health of your animals will astound you.


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## TDG-Farms

I like your enthusiasm but totally disagree with your mineral mix assessment. A good mix is formulated for a goats DAILY need. Yes there are lots of different views on what the daily needs are. And with selenium, most companies keep it lower so that everyone, including those in higher selenium areas can use it. Thus everyone needs to decide for themselves what mix is best for them. Which you have and I am happy for you. But by separating out the minerals you are actually doing wrong by the animal. Some minerals taste nasty, some better, so an animal is much less likely to consume the bad tasting one. A mineral mix has additives such as salt to give it a good enough flavor that the animal will be willing to eat it so an animal is much more likely to take in its daily need with a mineral mix. So although I dont agree, I always like a new approach and ideas to keeping goats.


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## fishin816

jmansheim7 said:


> I have read all of the posts and it I would like to comment on what mineral has helped my heard the most. I am an avid believer in an animals, God given instinct to know what it needs to eat. If animals were free to roam, they themselves, would choose what trees, plants and shrubs to eat to provide them their natural minerals. Since most of us keep them in small pastures or lots, we must succumb to supply them man made minerals.
> 
> Premade minerals give the animal no choice, in allowing it to choose how much of one mineral it needs. It therefore must eat all the minerals in the mix in order to gain the benefits of any mineral, they are lacking in. This does not give the animal free choice but forces it to over eat minerals its body does not require. Eventually you will begin to see signs of a mineral imbalance. Mineral imbalances show up in various ways. Most of all sicknesses and diseases, can be linked to a mineral imbalance.
> 
> I prefer to offer my animals natural minerals that they themselves can choose to eat whatever they are lacking in. I have witnessed the improvements and the lack of any sicknesses or diseases that plague most herds. My goats always remain healthy and this reduces my costs of veterinary bills, medicine and time caring for sick animals.
> 
> If you want your animals to always be healthy and able to resist any sicknesses and diseases, then I strongly urge everyone who owns any type of animal, to buy and read, Pat Coleby's books. She has books on how to properly care for all sorts of animals and I can testify to the fact that her methods work and work 100% of the time.
> 
> It is a proven fact that all most all animals with any form of health issues are lacking in some form of mineral. Why let your animals health suffer when there is a simple, cost effective and efficient method of providing minerals that always work. I honestly can not say enough about her methods. I urge all of you to put hearsay to the test and try Pat Coleby's methods yourself. You will not be disappointed and the health of your animals will astound you.


I am very glad you have found something that works well for your animals, but that would not work for me, and I would be on pins and needles constantly doing that because my area lacks in some minerals and I would be worried that they would go deficient. So that is why I provide a good loose mineral. And my goats do very, very, very, VERY well with this. They have access to a three acre pasture, and we are fencing in three more acres with brush and wooded areas where they can eat more, and have hay available. But that would never be enough for my goats mineral needs.

And you might feel strongly about Pat Coleby's methods, but I personally disagree with a lot of her methods. I am not going to get into it, but that is just my two cents.

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## jmansheim7

Dear Fishin816, I think I must have wrote something wrong? My goats do not get the minerals from pasture either, that is why I give them loose minerals. I give my goats Copper Sulfate, Sulfur, Dolomite, Sea Kelp and Baking Soda all in separate containers free choice. I also give them an herbal wormer and other herbs for various reasons. Just thought I would clarify.


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## fishin816

jmansheim7 said:


> Dear Fishin816, I think I must have wrote something wrong? My goats do not get the minerals from pasture either, that is why I give them loose minerals. I give my goats Copper Sulfate, Sulfur, Dolomite, Sea Kelp and Baking Soda all in separate containers free choice. I also give them an herbal wormer and other herbs for various reasons. Just thought I would clarify.


I must have misread that, so sorry. I am glad you have found something that works for you 

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## AlecBGreen

http://www.freechoiceminerals.com/

These guys create a "buffet" style of loose free-choice minerals so livestock can make their own decisions on what they need. They cater primarily to beef cattle ranchers but they will formulate goat recipes as well. They come highly recommended by many good graziers.


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## wendylou

I'm not too certain what my area is deficient in , however, I do know it's not selenium enriched but my question is this... I notice some of my goats nibbling on branches or even stones at times. I do provide them with loose mineral, sweetlix.. They are also given sea kelp and baking soda free choice. 
I was
Told that if your goats are nibbling on branches they are deficient in minerals.. OK?? Which one? Lol 
Some of my herd do not like the minerals but do get them because I mix my own feed and sneak them in. 
Thoughts?


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## canyontrailgoats

My goats nibble on branches because they taste good, I'm not sure minerals have anything to do with it...but it makes sense if they eat stones and dirt


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## wendylou

See? I thought this was something they liked as well.... Tree branches ... But the stones? Lol


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