# New law could make breeding animals very difficult ...



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

If this is considered a political post I'll take it down immediately. I just wanted to post and draw some attention to a new regulation that the USDA and APHIS want to pass, since I know many of us breed goats and other animals.

This regulation, if passed, would force any breeders with four or more breeding females to have unnecessary federal licensing, regulation and inspections. While I can understand the need to ensure animals are well cared for, I'm also afraid that this will make it very difficult for small breeders to sell their animals, and hard for buyers to buy from small, responsible breeders. Some of us just wouldn't be able to afford this. This would also effect organizations such as the Seeing Eye, which help countless people.

You can read the regulation here: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDe ... -0003-0001


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I read quite a bit about this yesterday. I don't know how many breeders would be able to comply with this law. If it were to pass I think a lot of people would just quit and sellout. The inspection standards and fines are absolutely ridiculous and not in the best interest of the animals or owners.

Here is a blog with more info. that describes this law very well.: http://waanimal.blogspot.com/2012/06/ne ... ns-of.html


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

It seems the major loophole for breeders of goats is to NOT label them as pets, ever. They should be called livestock. So even if they go the a 'pet' home, don't say that word. Call 'pet quality' animals something different, discount quality goat or something.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

KW Farms said:


> I read quite a bit about this yesterday. I don't know how many breeders would be able to comply with this law. If it were to pass I think a lot of people would just quit and sellout.


Exactly. It puts up unnecessary walls for responsible owners. It makes it way too hard.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Can anyone help me understand this a little better? Sorry I'm a little slow....  

Do you think it is going to pass??


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I briefly read through it and it doesn't look like goats would fall under this. It seems like it is directed towards people that are breeding dogs/cats/etc for retail purposes, not for livestock. Its probaby trying to regulate "puppy mills" and such.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

They sneak "farm animals" in there too. I can't remember what I read, but goats would fall under this law.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Sorry I missed the farm animals. Wouldn't goats be the same as people breeding cattle? What are all the farmers supposed to do?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Here's the docket: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2012 ... 1_0003.pdf


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

When I saw 'farm animals' mentioned in the writing, it seemed aimed at people selling farm animals as _pets_ specifically. Like people who sell pot bellied pigs as pets, for instance. So if you sell your goat as livestock, not as a pet, you'd be fine. At least, that is what I gathered from the literature.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Okay I do see where is says domestic farm animals, but then under that is says at retail use for pets.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

Exactly, here is the wording:

"A retail pet store is defined in § 1.1 of the regulations to mean "any outlet where only the following animals are sold or offered for sale, at retail, *for use as pets*: Dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers, chinchilla, domestic ferrets, domestic farm animals, birds, and cold-blooded species.""


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

What if someone wants to buy one for a pet?


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I would think you'd be okay as long as you didn't market it as a pet..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

goatnutty said:


> I would think you'd be okay as long as you didn't market it as a pet..


I agree. And I think a law on breeding 'pets' should be A LAW. So many unwanted pets in the shelters or fall victim into rescues, they need to make a limit, I feel the same way about horses too.


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## Sundancer (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't believe that this will affect us (goat addicts) even if you call it a "pet quality" animal as that is a qualification and not a designation.

The way I read it, it will mostly affect "animal mills" to try and either put them out of business or clean up their act and protect them from having baby after baby for the sole use of making money and not keeping/treating the critters in a humane way. I have seen the aftermath of a raid on a puppy mill and it is the most saddening thing I have ever seen in my life. The animals are kept in cages and rarely if ever are handled, loved or get to run around and exercise.

Yes, most of us look at our goaties as pets but in reality they are livestock.

I do believe that this is also an attempt to stop the retail "pet shops" from buying at such facilities without having been to and observed where the animals are bred and kept. I think most retailers, if they would actually go and see these places, would never buy from them, unless, of course, they were a truly a heartless(insert cuss word here).

Just an opinion from a guy who used to do a lot of contract negotiation and reads between the lines pretty well.

Needless to say....unless you are keeping your goats in very confined spaces under deplorable conditions in an effort to do nothing except make a lot of money, I don't think we have a lot to worry about. Just think of trying to inspect and enforce the tens of thousands of people (read goat keepers) out there and the limited number of inspectors. 

They can't even do anything to help the chickens on corporate egg farms. They are truly kept in horrifying conditions.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree about the egg farms...my brother/sister in law used to work on one years ago, and I remember hearing all the awful things they'd tell me about it  

I never could understand why they didn't pass a law to stop the overbreeding of 'pets' in the first place. It's insane. But I also don't see how this could work, as Sundancer said, how many people vs. how many inspectors/people to enforce the law. We'd all have to deputise ourselves to help that effort.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> goatnutty said:
> 
> 
> > I would think you'd be okay as long as you didn't market it as a pet..
> ...


I am with you on that! I worked in a shelter in southern CA and it is horrific the number of unwanted "pet" animals


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I do believe that if you are going to breed, breed responcibly. But the amount of control these regulations would have I don't think would be healthy ... many people raise goats differently, and what one inspector thinks is fine, another may not. It just kinda rubs me the wrong way =/


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Hoosier is correct that this is aimed specificaly at pet and exotic breeders and even more at pet shops. Goats under USDA fall as livestock and although there may be instance where a issue may arrise I doubt they would use this even if you are selling "pet" goats.


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