# Anyone use does in milk as packgoats?



## tiger408 (Jan 13, 2009)

Curious... does anyone use does in milk on their packtrips? The reason I ask is I have a doe who hopefully is due in March. She likes to be out and about with all the other goats... I hadn't planned on using her for packing but she is nice sized and very friendly so thought it might be worth a shot to take her along come springtime. I plan on milking her but bottle feeding the babies. Was wondering if anyone has any experiences.... good or bad... that they could share.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Some people at the rendy this year were packing with a doe in milk. She carried a pack but I believe was carrying less weight than the others. I'f I ever get the video done for the rendy it's in there.


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## goingnutsmom (Nov 28, 2009)

We use dairy goats in milk at this time. Since we are fairly new to packing and only have one saddle and set of paniers, we only do day trips. All the girls have packed though and are doing great so far. We take everyone when we go, milkers and babies and we all have fun. I have heard that with udders you have to be careful of the brush though. So far we hike and pack on nice trails and haven't had to worry about it.

Debbie L.
www.freewebs.com/hillbillyfarm
www.freewebs.com/shastapackgoats


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## tiger408 (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. 

Yeah, I am kind of worried about injuries to her udder because she gets very large and has large teats. I have access to some really nice pine and prairie areas so will probably hike those when she is along... save the other trails for when I just have the boys with. They have no problem jumping over downed trees and such. lol


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## Lightfoot Packgoats (Dec 12, 2008)

Yes I have packed a doe in milk, however, she had a superb udder and the trail was well defined, no bush whacking through danerous brush or very spikey rocks. It was, in fact, my very first goatpacking trip and the goats were really only along for fun as one was MyStewie who was 7 months old and the other was a 2 year old milker, she kind of came along to bring some extra goodies and the milk. She packed her load with courage and bravado the whole 5 days, took to it like a fish to water. She marched along at the head of the line stopping at all forks in the trail to glance over her shoulder, for my signal as to which trail to take. She only messed up at the first fork, after that she never missed a signal, she had zero previous training and it was the first time she'd ever carried a pack. And yes, she was pure Nubian!

Also along on that trip were a 3 year old filly (150 pounds of gear + two small children was her load), 5 children ranging in age from 18 months to 8 years and three crazy, overloaded adult human backpackers. It was a great trip!

This year we will be packing Shami who will be bringing the milk. She was bred by Carolyn Eddy but is also my boy, Flying Pie's daughter. She is a big, stout, short coupled, sturdy doe with a great udder and is a very good hiker. She is finally 4 years old this year and taking a break from making kids, which she has done 2 years running. Her weight is super so she is not rail thin like so many milkers. She's been in milk since she kidded last February 2nd and I worked hard all summer and fall to get her down to only 1/2 a gallon a day, which is perfect for packing. I like fresh milk in my tea and oatmeal in the mornings and the children do love their fresh milk hot cocoa in the evenings!

Taking an in-milk doe on a very rigorous trail with lots of bush whacking or other hazards that might cause udder injury would be foolhardy, so pack your in milk doe on a good trail or in areas where she is not likely to become injured from some poking stick or rock. I would also never recommend packing any intact doe in the fall when she may come in heat while out on the trail. You are asking for disaster should some young buck deer, moose, bighorn or elk decide that since he cannot have a harem of his own, he'll have your doe!

Also, any doe who is really heavy in milk (like Shami was most of last year, and I'm talking 2 gallons a day) would be pretty dangerous. Not only would her calorie needs be way higher but that huge udder is more likely to become injured than one carrying less milk. Milk her twice a day while on the trail or if you only want to do it once, do it in the mornings so she's not hiking with a full udder. This will make her life is easier and it is less likely she'll become injured.

Charlie Goggin
Lightfoot Packgoats


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## tiger408 (Jan 13, 2009)

Everybody's responses have been very helpful. I really appreciate all the input. Good point about when they are in season... I hadn't even thought about that! 

If we decide to take her with.... it would just be on short day hikes on maintained trails in a pretty flat, prairie like area. She doesn't 'have the best udder so definitely no tromps through the woods like the boys get to do. They have no problem jumping over fallen logs etc... but won't take her on trails like that. She would be strictly on walks where there won't be any place she could get poked or injured. We won't take her in an area that is brushy or where she would have to climb or jump over things.

She is such a sweetheart. Just would like to take her out on some of the easy trails because she really likes to be out and about with the rest of the gang.


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## imported_Nathan (Jun 24, 2009)

What arouses my curiosity about this topic, and this is from someone who has not yet milked a goat, is how do you have enough gear to do this on the trail?

Reading about the procedure/equipment for milking a goat, every article is sure to mention how simple it is and then mentions all the equipment. 

A sanitizing solution mixed in your double sided sink with hot running water. 
A stainless steel milk bucket with lid. 
Strip cup. 
Udderwash/teat dip solution and 
Teat dip cups (disposable)

Sounds a little bulky, but perhaps still doable. But then the big stuff gets mentioned: 

A goat stanchion.
An isolated milk parlor that is blocked off from other smells, flies and dust, and meticulously cleaned and sanitized. 

Some of these may be hard to come by in the backcountry. But then again, when you donate to one of those charities that provides a goat to a family in a third world country, I don't imagine they have all this stuff either. 

So I can only guess that those of you who milk on trail have come up with a "backcountry milking kit" for the minimalist. What are your secrets?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi,

I milk our does for our own needs and as they are all out brush cleaning during the whole summer I have to come up with ideas as low tech as possible. Ever tried to milk a doe on a 30Â° gravely slope (or maybe steeper...)? Both does that I milk have been trained to stand "ground tied" like a horse. You have to stoop under the goat but that's doable.

I take with me enough bottles for the milk (plastic would be ok on the trail I think), a plastic bucket, a plastic mug with which I can pour, an old head piece of a coffee machine (where you put the filters in), some paper (?) coffee filters and some grain for the doe (this is the equipment when I'm around with a car. When on trail I would work with less).

While she's eating her grain I milk her in the bucket, then filter the milk through the coffee filters into the mug and from there into the bottles. If you would use bottles/mugs/jars with a larger opening on the top you could skip the "filter into mug" and instead filter directly into the jars. Instead of coffee filter and coffee machine "head piece" you could also use a cloth or a teafilter made from cloth (and wash it out after).

As we drink all milk untreated it's no problem for me to do the same with the milk from our own does. But if not I would heat-treat them accordingly (and you'll have cooking equipment with you any way).

As for teat dip: a small jar with a lid wide enough should suffice.


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## imported_Nathan (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks, 

I'll bet you carry small bottles of the udder wash and teat dip solution. 

If I understand right, they reccommend all the stainless steel because it is easily sanitized multiple times, and that may not be as much of an issue when you are using disposable items or plactic items for a shorter term. 

Like you, I see value in some of the minimalist approach even at home. I see the value in the items up through the stanchion, since it has multiple uses. 

The first time I milk would probably be next summer, and I don't know now if it will be several months commitment, or just a few times to make sure I can do it if I have to. Reason enough to not build a barn with dedicated milking parlor just yet.


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## tiger408 (Jan 13, 2009)

At home I don't use a stanchion... or have a "milking parlor" .... we do have a separate fenced off area with a tarp over it... when it's milking time I just go to the gate... call the doe that I want... she comes running (the others know its not their turn)... give the doe grain and she just stands there to be milked...when done... I let her back out in the pen and call in the next goat. So ... even at home you don't need to get "fancy". It is a priority that everything is clean and as sanitary as possible though. This applies on the trail too. 

My younger does are already being trained to do this too. Even though they aren't old enough to be milked (and won't be for a while)... but at feeding time...call them by name... give grain... check udder (kind of the pretending to milk thing I guess) ... then check them all over, check feet etc... then let them back out in the pen. 

This way they are already trained... and I don't have to fight with them when hoof trimming time comes around either. Our wethers are trained this way too. ... well except for the checking the udder part LOL


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## Lightfoot Packgoats (Dec 12, 2008)

When I milk on the trail it is as low tech as can be. Milk filters are very lightweight and can be burned after they are used.

I milk into a small stainless pot with a milk filter rubber banded over it, the milk goes right through and then I put that milk, warm, right from the goat into oatmeal, my tea, cup or cold cereal. Sanitary is not possible on the trail, and considering the fact that I literally am touching my goats and then feeding myself gorp while hiking.. I mean, um, bacteria ARE getting into my system. Haven't you seen how gross your hands get on the trail? My goats kiss me on the lips for goodness sakes, germs are the least of my worries!

Nothing has time to go rancid, it is milked and consumed right then and there. There is no refrigeration so storing it is pointless and making cheese on the trail is a bit cumbersom, but yogurt is a neat thing to make on the trail if you don't mind hiking all day with a quart of it brewing in your pack! Our dogs like the extra if there is any!

I've also milked one handed into a stainless canister (narrow top) and then stained it directly into the oatmeal pot or whatever. This takes a couple of trips as the canister is only about a quart, but it keeps the milk clean. Bringing this along, one stainless canning funnel and a sandwhich baggie of milk filters is not a lot of gear. As for washing the udder, well, I bring some biodegradable wet wipes or just plain paper towels, get them damp with drinking water and then just rub her udder and belly with that. These are also burned or dried and then packed out, like the milk filters. Truly, there is not a lot of need for anything else. If you must bring teat dip, it can be kept in a small container with a lid but it would not weigh much either.

I guess if you were clever about campsites, or lucky, you could find a "stanchion" log, slab or rock, but I am fine just squatting down on a surface that is not dusty. My does stand fine for this and if they are figety, someone holds them. They've all been taught to milk without grain but afterward I give them a handfull of sunflower seeds or calf manna and they have considered it a good trade. No need for anything else except they need more browse time for the extra calories. I haven't hiked with a rail thin milker though, my two have been a good weight.

The milk stuff is washed like everything else on the trail, with a little bit of soap and then rinsed in hot water and allowed to air dry. Nothing special. We are eating dirt the entire trip anyway. 

We call it, "priming" our immune systems. And, if you want to rag me for it that is fine but I find it hard to believe anyone keeps their hands sanitary out there, especially with goats along who like scritchies at rest stops. Seriously, are you telling me that you've never dropped a cookie in the dirt in camp and then picked it up, dusted it off and eaten it anyway? Really?

I have. ;-)

Charlie Goggin
Lightfoot Packgoats


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

I just heard of a great (and very funny) way to protect your doe's udders on brushy hikes: a woman I met at a tea party today told me she used to take her milk doe for walks where she lived in Mendocino county and she needed to keep the blackberries from scratching her udders, so she would put a men's suit vest on the doe, buttons up, neck or head opening around her tail end, back legs out the arm holes.
I just wish I had a picture of that. :lol: 
Ali


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