# Castrating with burdizzo



## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

We recently learned that banding bucklings is more likely to cause stones.(we have experienced this with many wethers and never known why they got them)
We are interested in using a burdizzo but when we look for some it seems they have different sizes. We want to castrate on day three so wouldn't we get the smallest? Thanks


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes you want the small size. You want to do it when they are 3 days old? If so I'm not sure I would do that. From my understanding all their boy parts need time to grow and stretch and do all their boy things before you want to casterate them so you have less of a chance of stones.
But either way what ever you decide I have to warn the issue we ran I to was some times it simply didn't work and it took a lllooonnnggg time to realize that it didn't. We finally just gave up and went to banding. At least you could see what is going on


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Oh!!!! I misread the fias co farm article. We were going to disbud day 3 but use the burdizzo when they were 4 weeks old.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol it happens to me too  
But I know with banding the ideal age is 8 weeks old to have a less chance of UC. I don't know if doing it at 4 weeks is a good idea because the tubes are still breaking. But at 4 weeks old you would be able to see if it works before the can cause issues with the does. Hmmmm I'm going to be doing some googling on going this way and the chance of UC. (I still like seeing the deed done though lol)


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

The reason for waiting as long as possible to castrate has to do with the way the penis and pizzle are attached when they are young. The pizzle is the little "worm" thing on the end of the penis. When they are born, the pizzle is folded back along the penis and is attached with a membrane. This creates a tight bend in the path that causes quite a restriction. 

As the boys grow up and "play with things", the pizzle becomes free of the penis. This straightens out the sharp bend and doesn't restrict the flow. If they are castrated too young, the pizzle doesn't have enough time to get fully free from the penis.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

If you are encountering a lot of UC, I suggest re-evaluating your feed regimen.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> If you are encountering a lot of UC, I suggest re-evaluating your feed regimen.


Nobody said anything about having a lot of UC, I'm just offering a bit of knowledge to help folks understand one of the contributing factors, so they can make an informed decision on when to castrate their boys.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Sether55 said:


> we have experienced this with many wethers


Hope this helps: http://tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/urinarycalculi06.html

And this one: http://goat-link.com/index.php?opti...7&Itemid=49&limit=1&limitstart=2#.VJDvOnuIDIU


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

As mentioned, you need to research your feed. If you are giving any kind of grain, even whole grain, stop. Grain is the leading cause of UC as the calcium to phosphorus ratio is way off . Many also believe that alfalfa can cause UC cause it has an average 5 to 1 ratio. You also need to rethink when you castrate. The method has nothing to do with stones. Its the timing. The longer you wait the more growth the urinary tract has time to grow and mature. Although some people have no issues with when they castrate it is common knowledge, the later the better. The most accepted time is at 5 months but many do 3 months to avoid the stink and aggressive nature a buck. And then there is Ammonium Chloride to think about. AC can be added to a loose mineral mix or given as a treatment. But regardless of any of the above, AC should be given for the entire life span of a wethered goat.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

As others have said, it isn't the method, it is the timing. 4 weeks is way too early. Should be at least 8 weeks and older is preferred. Plus diet plays a role and giving them ammonium chloride helps.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

CritterCarnival said:


> Nobody said anything about having a lot of UC, I'm just offering a bit of knowledge to help folks understand one of the contributing factors, so they can make an informed decision on when to castrate their boys.


I meant the OP... ;-)

Quote~We recently learned that banding bucklings is more likely to cause stones.(we have experienced this with many wethers and never known why they got them)

Quote "


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Sether55 said:


> We recently learned that banding bucklings is more likely to cause stones.


I'm curious where this information came from? Castrating too early and an imbalance of calcium and phosphorous rations are the most likely causes of stones. We have a sales contract that states that we will absolutely not castrate before the age of 8 weeks. And we would really rather wait until 12 if we can. We have banded all our wethers and have had ONE that got UC and died from it. However....they people that owned him weren't feeding any hay or browse....only grain.


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

kccjer said:


> I'm curious where this information came from? Castrating too early and an imbalance of calcium and phosphorous rations are the most likely causes of stones. We have a sales contract that states that we will absolutely not castrate before the age of 8 weeks. And we would really rather wait until 12 if we can. We have banded all our wethers and have had ONE that got UC and died from it. However....they people that owned him weren't feeding any hay or browse....only grain.


I believe we got all of this information from fias co farm and thats why they use a burdizzo.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Hmmm....I don't see that on the fiasco farm site. They say they use the burdizzo at 4 weeks and don't recommend neutering any sooner than that and they also say that neutering too early will cause UC along with improper feed. I did find one site that said banding from day 1-30 is most at risk (but they do not give any other methods as being better either). But it also states that the *primary* cause of UC is improper feed balance of calcium and phosphorous. However, that is why we are all saying to neuter no sooner than 8 weeks and be very careful of your feed ration.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Fiasco Farm hasn't owned goats in years now. While some information is timeless, others are not. I would read things with a grain of salt and verify with people who actually own goats. Fiasco Farm is a good general website for the truly timeless info on goats.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> I meant the OP... ;-)
> 
> Quote~We recently learned that banding bucklings is more likely to cause stones.(we have experienced this with many wethers and never known why they got them)
> 
> Quote "


 :doh: Grrrr...I really hate myself when I post when I'm having a bad day...I really say stupid stuff. My apologies...


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

CritterCarnival said:


> :doh: Grrrr...I really hate myself when I post when I'm having a bad day...I really say stupid stuff. My apologies...


We've all done it! You're not alone....


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

> They say they use the burdizzo at 4 weeks and don't recommend neutering any sooner than that and they also say that neutering too early will cause UC along with improper feed. I did find one site that said banding from day 1-30 is most at risk (but they do not give any other methods as being better either). But it also states that the *primary* cause of UC is improper feed balance of calcium and phosphorous. However, that is why we are all saying to neuter no sooner than 8 weeks and be very careful of your feed ration.


I absolutely agree! The main cause of UC is usually improper diet. I know plenty of people that banded or surgically castrated at 7-8 weeks without issue. I even know someone that surgically castrates before 30 days. No issues either.

Like Karen said Fiasco does have some great basic info, but not all of it is timeless or for everybody. I had a miserable time with the burdizzo. We bought the most expensive model from a reputable source but of the 6-7 I did only one buck worked! From here on out everything either gets surgically castrated or banded. ;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

CritterCarnival said:


> :doh: Grrrr...I really hate myself when I post when I'm having a bad day...I really say stupid stuff. My apologies...


No worries! As Carmen said...we all do it! :snowcool:


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## Texan (Jun 25, 2014)

What is the best diet for a wether, if I may ask? Do they need grain while they are growing, or none at all? Would you just feed alfalfa?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

We feed grain to all our kids. Our wethers are going for butcher, so we feed grain to get them to weight. Our doelings usually get grain for at least 6 months to help them grow. IF you are keeping a wether for a pet then grain for 6 months for growth and hay after that. We still feed our bucks a little grain as it keeps them halfway friendly (ours aren't pets)


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

The only time Id suggest giving wethers grain is right as they are starting to try solid foods. Say month 1-2. Its easier on their digestive systems then most hays. Here we give both for about 2 weeks and then give nothing but alfalfa from that point on. Here is a link to a page on my site that gives decent info on pack goat / wether care.

http://trinitypackgoats.webs.com/howtopackgoatcare.htm


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## Texan (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks guys.


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