# KIDDING EMERGENCY - placenta coming out first



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I think the placenta is coming out. Her labor has been going rather slowly. She has been pushing off and on, but not very hard or for very long at a time. No blood. (That's a scratch in her pooch area; she got it a few days ago.)
What should I do?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is the sac that the kid is in. The placenta can't come out before the kid does. Go in if it has been more than 30 minutes. A malpositioned kid will slow or stop labor.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

That's the amniotic sac, which comes before the kids. So far it looks normal. How long has she been contracting?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Lube up and go in and see what is going on.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

OK, you know how there's a sac of fluid that's part of the placenta? In one or two of my kiddings, that has come out first and the kid has slipped past it immediately after. Well now, that sac has come out; I reached my fingers in and felt two hooves and a nose; they seem to be in the right position; but labor seems to have stalled.
The amniotic sac has not come out yet.

Should I reach in and try to pull? Or how long should I wait?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I would.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Gently slide you fingers around the kid, and see if she's dilated enough. How long has she been contracting? Is she pushing hard, or not so much? If the kid is in correct position it's a matter of her being dilated enough to push it out. Gentle manipulation may "stretch" her enough to fit the kid through. I agree that pulling is in your near future...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Usually, if you can get in to feel a head and feet, they are dilated enough. The taking a long time is why I would pull the trigger. This isn't even really "going in". I generally try to gently pull one or both feet down and out and use my left hand to keep the head guided down and following the feet. Usually this results in the doe contracting and helping. And usually ends in a *big* healthy kid. At least at my farm.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

How far behind are you feeling? Did you make sure there's not a hind leg pushed forward? I hope things are progressing :/


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

??????? I hope all is well!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, go in, help dilate her and get the kid(s) out.

Hopefully it is going OK.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Hope all is going well


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Prayers things are going ok...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

any news?? I too agree with whats been said....


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I tried and tried and tried and tried; it was upside-down and twisted; no go. Finally got hold of emergency vet, he pulled the kid. It was dead.  But he expects mama to be okay. She's at the vet's office and she's coming home Monday - she's got a lot of bruising. What do you think about milking Mama? I'm fine with letting her dry up if that would be best for her, but I was really wanting to milk her this year.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Awww , im so sorry :hug: Glad she will be ok though .
Im not sure about milking , she might be given some antibiotics and you won't be able to use it till she's done. But after that I'm thinking it would be fine to use the milk…..idk.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Oh gosh. I'm sorry. You are a very good goat herder to take such good care of your doe. I hope she recovers quickly and makes lots of milk.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks so much everyone for all your help!
Please, I need opinions on milking her. I don't want to just leave her dry for another year; I was really looking forward to milking her; but her well-being is more important to me. Advice?


> You are a very good goat herder to take such good care of your doe.


This really means a lot, Tenacross. Thank you. I tend to over-analyze the past, trying to think of what I should have done differently. Which is okay to an extent, because then I can avoid it in future, but I take it too far. So your encouragement helps a lot. 
I was literally sick and faint with stress on the way to the vet's office. That's never happened to me before. I thought I was going to throw up or black out (which wouldn't have helped anything) so I asked my mom to say Psalm 23, and I felt a lot better right away. Funny how that psalm helps so much...


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I think I'd try milking her. Give her calcium and molasses drenches, along with b complex. Do this with the antibiotics of course. As long as she keeps a good weight and stays perky, I think she'll recover nicely.

You may also want to worm her, parasites flourish in times of stress. Keep red cell on hand as well.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Also up the feed, alfalfa and a dairy grain will do her good. Loose minerals of course, and any greens she may enjoy...


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

OK, should I visit her at the vet's tomorrow to give her the molasses etc. and milk her? She's not coming home till Monday. It's like a 40 minute drive. Or can she wait till Monday for all that? If I don't milk her tomorrow, might she dry up?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I know you are still pretty shook up over all this and I understand, but I think there is an excellent chance she will milk just fine after you get her sorted out. You certainly don't have to make the call tonight.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Hmm. I don't think she would dry up, per se, but I think I would call the vet early in the morning and ask how she's doing, and I sort of would want to get her out of there if the vet didn't strongly resist... if you know what I mean. You and the vet better know what's going on though. Talk it through with the vet. See if you could be doing what they will be doing, if anything, at home. Not trying to get up in your business, but if she's just staying there because most of their clients are clueless, then maybe they could release her if she's doing well to someone like you that isn't clueless.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

He's going to call about 2 this afternoon. I will ask him then.
Keturah loves Chaffhaye, and I do normally give my girls hot molasses water after kidding. She didn't get that treat.
Poor thing, she loves being a mother and refuses to go a year without being bred. (This pregnancy wasn't planned, but as usual, she managed to make it happen.) I feel so bad for her.  Would it be safe breed her in 7 months to kid next year, do you think?

Has anyone heard of Apple Cider Vinegar to prevent difficult birth? I normally give that through the whole pregnancy, and I have NEVER had any serious problems with birth. This year, I did not give ACV. Coincidence? Supposedly the potassium in it improves muscle tone, hence the strength of the contractions and the dilation.


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## kc8lsk (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm milking one of my goats that miscarried at 3.5 months you should be ok to milk when she gets home if she is on antibiotics just dump the milk until it clears her system and then you should be good to go.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry milkmaid  How awful....hope she pulls through ok!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Milkmaid. First off Deep Breath! You did a fantastic job of taking care of what needed to be done. If she's doing ok, then I would ask the vet about bringing her home today. Not sure why he kept her in the first place (mine never has). But it WILL be cheaper for you if she doesn't stay another night. 

Yes, she should be ok to milk. Like everyone has said, if she is on antibiotics find out what the withdrawal time is for whatever is being used. Discard that milk. If you don't start milking as soon as you can, she may dry up.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I would just like to say that I was thinking yesterday was Friday. Duh. Geeze.
Sorry I was so dumb.

I bet your doe is going to be fine. It's pretty much impossible to determine what caused the difficult delivery, but I can tell you that many of us have had similar. I'm a firm believer that everyone has to figure out what works best for them as far as management. You have a lot of time to mull it over, not that you have to necessarily do *anything* different. One incident can be just a fluke. If you have repeat problems, like I did my first kidding season, then it's more likely you need to make changes. JMO.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Generally, most antibiotics are a 96 hr. hold on human consumption. But, that shouldn't matter because she will have colostrum in her milk for at least that long. The reason they don't want people to drink antibiotical milk is because of allergies and because you don't need those antibiotics! 

There is no reason you can't milk her for your use. It is no different than pulling kids at birth and never letting them nurse off the doe. 

If she has to stay longer at the vet, ask them to milk her out or let you, every 12 hrs. 
You are a good goat parent! Sometimes things happen and we just can't control them.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

If she likes being a mom, it will probably be better for her if you milk her. Then you're her "kid" and she gets all the happy hormones from letting her milk down every day, and she gets to bond to you as her "kid." It can help them with grieving - they still feel like a "mom" in some ways. 

Staying at the vet is not good for goats - they need their herd (and you're part of the herd).


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Update
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f194/spoiled-baby-3-a-175719/#post1851539


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