# 60 & 68 lbs Boer Twins @ 1 Year



## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I have a set of boer twins that were born last June on the 15th. That puts them just over a year old. I knew they were small but I was still surprised after recently purchasing a scale to weigh them and finding out that they are only 60 and 68 lbs.

I purchased their dam, pregnant, at a sale last year. She came from a reputable breeder with good genetics. They're FB.

I'm just wondering if I cut my losses with them or keep them another year to see if they grow? Here's a pic of one.








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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ouch that's not good. 
What have they been eating?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Are you sure your scale is right??? That one just looks bigger to be but it is hard to always tell by a picture. 
If it's right I really don't know  it's your call but my 4 month olds usually weigh about that much some as low as 50 but 60ish is average and that's with really nothing special to eat and not all that great genetics. But still they just look smaller then this picture. He still looks small for a year just not that small. 


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I feed them Noble Goat along with hay. They get fed twice a day. They are mostly inside the barn in a 10'x20' stall. They are outside to browse for at least an hour in the evening. They also get Onyx mineral although they weren't getting any minerals for the first 2-3 months of they're lives. I know that was a short coming on my part. I'm still green and didn't know the importance of minerals at that point. I realized they needed minerals when I noticed they're horns were weak and "flakey."

I'd like to have them outside more. I'm actually outside now working on a new fence. It'll be an 8 strand high tinsel electric fence, about 4-5 acres.

Could the lack of minerals early on have stunted they're growth? 

Reference the scale, it's not the best. It's one of the 220lbs Rubbermaid hanging scales from Premier1. It's brand new though. I wouldn't think it would be off that much.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Good to hear about the Onyx it is great stuff! Mine don't get much minerals until around 3 mos, up until then they just kind of pick at it.
Flakey horns is pretty normal. Some years they are hardly noticeable but flakey nonetheless.
So I don't think it's lack of minerals that they aren't heavier.

Did they ever get the runs & if so was there a check for cocci? Now that WILL stunt growth.
How much Noble goat do they get?
Two of my Christmas eve brothers weighed in at 64 & 59 by the end of March & they were 75%


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

My two 50% boer doelings were 50# at 2 months old. My FB boer triplets were 25-35# at 1 month of age. My nubian wether was 65# at 2 months of age, but he is the only one on his dam drinking and doesn't get pulled at night. I'd say the scale is off. The one you posted looks bigger than that


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I don't believe they've ever had the runs, even for a day or two that I can remember. They've both been pretty healthy goats from day one. They're dam was down with really bad scours and off feed when they were only 5 days old. I had the Vet out and after doing a fecal sample he said she was covered up with coccidiosis. I was a little leery of his diagnoses. I had recently started supplementing her feed with Calf Manna so I stopped that. I put her on an antibiotic that the Vet gave me and continued drenching her until she came around 2-3 days later. I did bottle feed the two kids for a couple days. I never treated for cocci and non of the other 10 or so goats in the barn showed any signs of being sick.



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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Getting a fecal done will reveal any parasites/cocci your boys have. It sounds like that may be the problem...And I agree that they don't look as small as 60-68#, can you measure them another way?


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Put something on that scale that you are certain of the weight of, like say a 50 lb bag of feed and see if it is the scale. My mother bought brand new digital human scale once that told her she weighed 23 lbs.... it could very well be the scale....


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I'll take some measurements this evening and try to get a pic of them next to their dam if that'll help judge their size a bit.

I'll check the scale with a known weight too. 



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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes it's a good idea to really check your scale even if it is new.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ours years ago was way way off. It took time for my brother to get it right. Use the grain as said above. Our scale at one time was right on with low lbs but would be more off the higher it went. No clue why my brother was the master mind of fixing it. 
If mama had cocci there's a good chance they had it too but not to the point of having the runs. I have a doeling that never got the runs and is stunted  
And really for not pushing the grain like a lot of people do (in the picture) he doesn't look bad. A lot of people leave grain out free choice. I do with the kids but not with older goats but when I started my creep feeder I saw a BIG difference between just some grain at feeding and grain that they can eat when ever they want. I saw even more of a difference when I make the creep feeder bigger and put feeders in there for hay. Even though they have hay out with mamas it still made a difference


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I have that same stand you do. I think that goat is bigger than 60 pounds.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok he's gotta weigh more then 60. I took this picture of my doeling this morning. I had to put her back in the weaning pen so since I already had my hands on her we took a walk to the scale. She is about 4 1/2 months old and 73lbs







Your guy is way taller then her. I'm guessing 80-90 more to the 90 since I thought this girl would only weigh about 60

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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

^ That's a very pretty doe, Jessica.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thank you she is out of my doe I got from crossroads. But she's not mine my son staked his claim before she was ever born 


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I checked the scale with a 50lbs bag of feed and it was right on. I also weighed a couple of my son's 4-H goats. A January doe at 59lbs and a January wether at 68lbs.

The doe in the pic from my first post is the one that weighed in at 68lbs. I tried to get a good pick of the two next to their dam so you could see the size difference. It is significant, but of course it's difficult to get a good pic that shows it. The pic below is the best I could come up with.








Do you think they, and/or their dam could have had cocci without it spreading throughout the barn? I've never treated any goats for cocci at this point. I just wasn't seeing any other signs of it. The dam had scours and went off feed for a couple days, but was never anemic.

Reference my vet telling me she was covered up with cocci, I know I shouldn't doubt my Vet but he also took the dams temp when he came out. It was 102 and he told me she had a fever. It's tough to find a good goat Vet. I'm under the impression that all or most goats carry a small load of cocci when their healthy.

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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I just want to say that your goats look quite healthy. In the pictures, they look the opposite of what I would expect goats "stunted" by cocci should look like.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it is possible for it to not hit everyone. I have some that never showed signs of the runs but still have it. I also have a doeling that's a bit of a crazy girl and has never been treated for cocci nor has she set foot in the creep feeder that had medicated feed and she is clean and huge. But even with out the signs of cocci I know they can still have it but maybe not enough to cause a major problems. And it may not be cocci at all maybe simple worms. Or maybe they just need more feed then the rest. But advise on what to do I really don't know if you should cut your losses or not but I would see about worms and if you don't trust your vet and they have never been wormed I would worm and treat for cocci and see if that helps. I know I had a vet who told me a doe had cocci and I argued with him that they all have a few and he was not getting it till the main vet came out.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

I agree, they look the picture of health. And yes a little small for a year old, but not 60lb small in comparison to their dam. Is she by any chance a small goat herself?

It sounds like the accuracy of the scale has been shown beyond doubt, but they really don't look that tiny to me. My girl is 67 pounds, she looks smaller than them in comparison to her mother, and her mother is definately a very small goat indeed!

Could you take some physical measurements ... ie, how many inches are they at the wither, what is their heart girth? 

Ordinarily if a goat had stopped growing but not really looked under the weather I'd wonder about minerals but seriously their coat looks so good I wouldn't dream of suggesting it.

Are the parents small goats? or perhaps slow growing?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

They do look healthy for sure!
There are some Boers who are naturally on the small side. I wonder if you happened to get one out of those lines?
I have a couple of % does out of the old style large Nubian. One sister is a regular bulldozer, huge as a house. Her younger half sister was small compared to her.


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

some lines grow slower as well. 


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

I took some measurements.

60lbs doe: @ wither 25", heart girth 27.5"

68lbs doe: @ wither 24", heart girth 28.25"

Their dam is not small. I'm not sure on her weight, but I definitely wouldn't call her small. Maybe a little short legged though.

The only picture I could find of their sire was in a sale catalog where he was sold at a fairly young age. I don't want to give too much information that would reveal where the dam and breeding came from in case anyone reading this would think negatively of them. They are a big name that many on here would be familiar with. They were very helpful to me after the sale as well, as I was still very green at that time (only slightly less green now). Their great grandsire on their sire's side is Coppertop. I know a great grandsire's genetics can either be diluted or built upon, but their pedigree looks pretty good.

Well at least I can monitor their weights now that I have a scale. I was really looking forward to breeding them this Aug/Sept but that appears to be out of the question.

I appreciate all your thoughts and comments!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

NubianFan said:


> Put something on that scale that you are certain of the weight of, like say a 50 lb bag of feed and see if it is the scale. My mother bought brand new digital human scale once that told her she weighed 23 lbs.... it could very well be the scale....


You could get good $ for a scale like that!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Things that stunt growth:
Cocci
worms
not feed good nutrition
Mineral deficiency
Slow growing bloodlines, but they aren't usually that small by 1 year.

With cocci it doesn't always show scouring just stunts growth. 

I have a small Adult Doe she is a few years old, who had cocci without me knowing when she was young, it is devastating, after that, I do cocci prevention.
She produces well, so I hold onto her. Just because they are small doesn't mean they are not good producers.


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks TBG, that raises a couple more questions for me. 

What do you do for cocci prevention in kids? Does simply deworming the dam prior to kidding help prevent cocci?

Also, if these yearling does are stunted, which they appear to be, can I expect anymore growth out of them? Is it safe to breed a doe once she reaches a certain age even if she hasn't reached the minimum breeding weight of 80lbs?

Thanks!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It sounds like she has good lines then and probably worth trying to keep her.......depending on how long you can afford to keep her and the chance that she may just never get big enough. But I think I read they grow till 4 (is that right??) in my does I don't see much growth after 2. If if she's worth the gamble to you I would put her on really good feed even if you have to pen her by herself during feeding time which I have done.
As for prevention a lot of people just feed medicated feed. I tried doing that. It helped but still had some with cocci. Some people treat kids at 3 6 9 weeks old. That was a joke for me because of the 5 day treatment BUT I just got baycox and it's a one dose deal. So now my plan is to not only feed the medicated feed but to also treat the kids every 3 6 9 weeks as well. I'm not sure if anyone else does both preventions but I'm going to.


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

Sounds good. I'm looking into feeds with Rumensin now.

Should I treat the two does for cocci now, or is it likely that they are past the cocci overload if they appear healthy now?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

clingenpeel said:


> Thanks TBG, that raises a couple more questions for me.
> 
> What do you do for cocci prevention in kids? Does simply deworming the dam prior to kidding help prevent cocci?
> 
> ...


I use corid for prevention at least once a month for a 5 day course each kid. You can do this up to a year or until 9 months old, depending on what you want to do.

After they are 1 year, their systems pretty much are set to fight against cocci. You can treat your yearlings, if you feel they may have an elevated count of cocci or get a fecal and see where they are at.

Worming does not treat cocci totally different deal.

Kids at as young as 2 weeks old can be susceptible to cocci and worms.
I start mine at 1 to 2 months old.

Breeding rule of thumb, they should be 1 to 1 1/2 year old, then must be at least 80 lbs, some say 75 lbs.
She must be big enough to safely have babies.

Boers can grow up to 4 years. So they may grow some more, they won't achieve their full potential but they will grow with proper care.

Feed with cocci prevention in it, the kids will have to eat the right amount daily, to try to keep it at bay. I don't find it works as well as an actual cocci med. And they can get immuned to it. It shouldn't be used alone, if a goat has actual cocci.


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## clingenpeel (Apr 1, 2013)

Update: I weighed both of these does about a week ago and they had each gained 10 pounds a piece in a five week period.

During this time I had put them through a 21 day Cocci prevention treatment with Corid in their water. I did this because another goat in their pen had developed a bad case of scours that I couldn't get her to kick. I took a fecal sample to Vet. They said it looked good. The only thing that was slightly high was the cocci count. 

I don't know if that treatment had anything to do with their weight gain but I hope it continues. If they gain another 10-15 pounds by October I'll breed them.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Hooray! That is great news! I bet the cocci treatment helped them. It really stinks that cocci can stunt them with no symptoms. Perhaps it was just a seasonal growth lull as well.

Before I learned about cocci preventative I did keep two doelings and didn't end up breeding them until 1.5 years of age. Now they have weaned their kids and are over 2 and finally looking like good boers! They really filled out after weaning their kids. There is definitely still potential for your girls.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That's great!!! So happy. I'm sure the treatment helped as well. It really threw me off when my kids were not growing well but showed 0 signs of cocci. I'm in your shoes right now with a tiny doeling so your giving me great hope with her 


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

That's good to know!


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Great thread....I have 2 does that I retained from last year that are about 68 lbs. I love these girls. They are just beautiful, but they are small. They are a little over a year old. I just recently learned about cocci prevention.

I have the Di-Methox 12.5 oral solution on hand. Could I use that instead of Corrid?
How many days in row?
How often?
Dosage?

Thanks guys. TGS is an invaluable tool. I have learned so much. This gives me hope for my girls. I can't wait until next kidding season to put this to use "early" and see what a difference it makes.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes you can use it over corid. I like it better any ways.....but am a little in love with the baycox because of the one dose deal. 


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