# Judge this doe



## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Hi guys! 
So, I decided against the polled doe I previously posted due to come comments on her conformity causing issues in the future. I am now on the hunt again. 

I have found a nubian. Unregistered. BRED- due at end of this month or early next month. 250. Pacific NW. 
I wanted to post a couple pics so you guys can judge away. Unsure what to make of the udder because she is still pregnant... and I dont know when it really fills in completely.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I like her. I think the photos don't do her justice. She also looks a little rough, a tad underweight with a short, dull coat for being winter time here in the PNW. I think $250 is a fair price.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks for your response! How would I go about correcting that? Extra grain and a good brushing? Does her hind area look ok? That was the concern with my last option. My girls are very fluffy right now...I did notice her hair was short... I thought it might just be a nubian thing


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I like her too, $250 seems reasonable
Hind legs look good:thumb:


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

I would ask if she's had BoSe or selenium gel and copper recently for her coat. Looks like she could be having a copper deficiency going on there. And as far as the weight goes yes a good grain and especially alfalfa and good grass hay should correct the weight problem. Also I'm sure you know this but make sure she comes from a CL & CAE clean herd. Ask to see the documentation that the herd is clean.


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

I like her, I think she would make a good milking doe and 250$ is a reasonable price. Agree that the pics probably don't do her justice, if she was set up she would probably look better. Her pasterns look good, and her rear angulation look good as well, again I think if she was set up she would look better. She looks a bit underweight, I would make sure she has lots of access to minerals(she looks a bit deficient), as well as feeding a good grain with some BOSS in it to help bring shine back to her coat and a good alfalfa hay, all thats should bring her weight and health up.
I would ask when she was last dewormed, parasite overload can sometimes can cause weight loss as well. Make double double sure she comes from clean herd too!!!


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I have been told she is from a clean/closed/ tested herd. And is utd on vaccinations including BoSe.

I have some copper bolus' on hand but I will ask if she has been dosed within the year. Unsure if dosing is ok while pregnant? 

I just stocked up on Scratch and Peck so she will get good quality grains  Fresh hay and alfalfa/beet pulp pellets. BOSS and of course Minerals... I also have a balancer that I bought when I first got my goats because I thought they were minerals  fattened my girls up though.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I agree with the others. Needs a little extra weight and some copper.

She looks structurally sound.

Her developing udder looks even and like there is a good medial suspensory ligament there.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

She says that she was dosed this year for copper. I am going to check her out, and if I bring her home I will try to get a better picture to see if it still looks like she is in need of it.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I think you can do it every 6 months?

I have a Nubian who looks scrawny... She just isn't an easy keeper. Not awful but just needs a little more than my other does.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Her rear end looks fine, rump looks steep, but that could be the way she's standing. She does look a bit narrow through the rear and between the hocks though. Nothing looks bad about her udder at this point, but you'll know after she kids. 

I personally would get her on free choice alfalfa, maybe start graining a bit after she kids. She also may need a good deworming and/or copper bolusing.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

KW- could her being underweight attribute to that narrowness? Or is it something that weight wouldn't effect.

Thanks everyone for your input- just trying to make sure I get a good milking doe and don't overpay.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Do they have any barn records on milk production or is this her first time?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

GoatMama123 said:


> KW- could her being underweight attribute to that narrowness? Or is it something that weight wouldn't effect.


Weight wouldn't really change that. If the goat was severely underweight, that would be one thing, but she's just a little under. I think she'll look a lot better with a little more weight, but it doesn't change the actual structure of the animal.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Does that cause any problems for them? 

This is her second kidding. She produced almost a gallon per day milking 2 times a day.

The herd was last tested in 2014 for the typical worrisome stuff... close herd. Is that too long for testing to have gone by to trust it?

Should I quarantine her until after the birth? I feel bad that she will be by herself in such a stressful time, but I want to protect my girls.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Ask to see the paperwork for CAE etc. Probably it is fine if a closed herd, etc.
Looks like a nice doe. How is her personality? Does she seem friendly?
Why are they selling her?


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

What is it you want her for? I think once she kids and gets fattened up she would make a great home milker, just not a show doe. And I second making sure you see the paperwork for CAE.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Im looking for a doe that will be a home milker and maybe 4h for my son later on... or produce an attractive kid for 4h


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

She looks like she been fed local Valley Hay, better quality food and minerals should perk her right up. Valley hay is very deficient in Lysine. My Nubians have never grown a thick winter coat either. 
She's not bad at all for this area and the price isn't outrageous.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

OK guys don't hate me but the doe was bought from under me a few days ago! I am going tomorrow to look a a bred Nigerian doe... registered. 3 years old. This one will not be sold first come first serve as apparently the other was. If this one for some reason doesn't work out... I will not bother anymore posting them. I think from all the feed back I am getting a better idea what to look for. This one seems solid right?


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

If you want a home milker, a Nigerian may not be the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I love my NDs but they don't produce a whole lot and the smaller tests make it harder to milk

Do you have a side shot of her?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I have kind of already committed to the breed as I have 2 doelings already. I may get a nubian in the spring, but the husband wants me to start slow until I get the hang of everything


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I like the udder shape a lot, but the attachments and height are really bad. I'm afraid that udder is not built to last. I would definitely pass.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Oh man... he does have another girl he is offering. This will be her second freshening. Don't like the udder shape as much and the teets are huge!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I agree KW, that's exactly what I was thinking.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

How telling are first kiddings for the future? The one has has great kiddings both times. The other had 4 on her first go and while she kidded fine, 2 were born deceased and were runty. Is that a bad sign? Or just bad luck that she had so many her first go?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Can you explain a little why the attachment is bad? The height being bad is the distance between her bum and her utter correct? Im just trying to learn so I do have to bother everyone with my prospects anymore


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm not a huge fan of either but I like the second more than the first. 

The kidding could be a combination of things though. Do you know how their production is?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

The white one was 1.75-2lbs a day while dam-raising her three doelings (2 freshening)

The brown one was 1.5 once a day milking only dam-raising one or 2 
doeling . (first freshening)

Both once a day milking


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

GoatMama123 said:


> Can you explain a little why the attachment is bad? The height being bad is the distance between her bum and her utter correct? Im just trying to learn so I do have to bother everyone with my prospects anymore


The attachments are what hold the udder in place. Ideally, you should be able to see them from the rear view, on each side of the udder. You can't see them on this doe. The udder should also be high and wide up through the escutcheon. Lastly, you don't see any attachment on the forudder, being dropped down off the belly like that with the udder tilted too far forward is very much unwanted. The foreudder should be smooth up against the belly wall and teats should be pointed down, not forward. This type of udder will most likely break down over time.

I'm not much more impressed with the second doe. I would pass on her too.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Ah, I feel like all the does I find are duds! Does the other at least having something going for her?

I don't need huge production- we are a family of 3... but I mean Id like to be able to have milk, and make butter and cheese.

I just don't understand how anyone gets good ones...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

They both have similar problems...steep rumps...tilted udders...lack of height through the escutcheon. The attachments look better on the second one, but I really dislike how narrow she is through that rear end. That's also her first freshening so things like height and attachments don't get better. I'd probably go with the buckskin if I had to choose, but I'm afraid after another freshening or two...she's going to start looking like the other doe. At least her teats are larger so hopefully that would make milking easier but also vs. the other doe...looks like she's going to have better capacity since she's a FF and the other is a SF...both milking about the same right now.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If you're looking for milk, cheese, and butter you might want to go with a standard or a mini. Milking our ND doe three times a day we just barely had enough milk daily for our two toddlers, and that was at peak production. I'm hoping that our minimanchas will produce a good amount for us, but we're getting a standard doeling this spring as well because I'd like to do soaps and lotions and have extra for cheeses and such.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I want to make sure I am using terms correctly- first freshening means first birth right? Or is first freshening the second birth?

Ugh KWFarms- your does are gorgeous.

I feel like the girl from Willie Wonka with the golden goose. I want a a milking goat now! I just didn't want a big goat, but maybe I need to expand my search, I just heard Nigerians were the best taste wise.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

First Freshener or FF = A doe who has kidded one time. Her first freshening.
Second Freshener or SF = A doe who has kidded twice. Her second freshening.
Third Freshener, Fourth Freshener, and so on...

Thanks for the compliments on my girls. 

Nigerians have high butterfat. They can be great milkers, but you have to find a quality doe and depending on how much milk you drink...you may need more than one.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Im still confused...I need more coffee and this sinus cold to go away.

So- The brown doe has kidded once with quads. She is pregnant currently. This current is her FF? Or SF?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

If she's kidded one time then she's a first freshener. First freshening=first kidding.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

A freshening is when she gives birth. So when she delivers the babies she's currently pregnant with, she'll be a second freshener.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Ok got it!!! Thanks guys, takes a bit to click sometimes. So yes this will be the brown does SF. And it will be the white one third


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