# Copper Sulfate as Worm Preventative



## milkmaid

Hi all, I'm just wondering if anyone here has experience with copper sulfate for worm prevention. I really like Pat Coleby's book "Natural Goat Care," and in it she goes on and on about how important copper is, and how it prevents all kinds of worms. I can't find much info on it anywhere else. Does anyone have any success or failure stories? Or any information?
Thanks!


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## StaceyRosado

copper sulfate can be deadly if not properly administered. I would be careful with using it


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## milkmaid

I realize that - good that you brought it up though. Yes, I would definitely be careful!
The author of the book used copper sulfate for years with complete success. According to her, not only does it get rid of flukes, coccidia, and intestinal and stomach worms, it keeps away hoof rot, plays a distinct part in CAE prevention, and prevents many other diseases. Sounds like a dream....I'd like to hear more testimonials than just hers though!
Some friends of mine use it too and like the results. I've also done it for several months.

Here's a link to a review of the book with a couple of sample chapters if anyone wants to read them. In the chapter "Health Problems" there are sections on worms, liver flukes, and coccidia.

http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/press/naturalgoat.htm

Just thought I'd throw that out.


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## StaceyRosado

Well liz had a doe die and others come close to it after using the Copper Sulfate. I do know that by keeping the copper levels in my minerals, feed and supplements up then my goats look healthier, but I dont think I would rely on copper to treat for worms.


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## cdtrum

I myself would never use it after Liz's horrible experience with it.......I copper bolus every 6 months.


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## Gumtree

Yes it does control worms, including barbers pole worm,
My parents have been a certified organic sheep farmers and it has been one of their main methods of controlling worms,
but we have made a lot of mistakes and lost a lot of sheep to copper poisoning, 

This was because of two reasons 1 our farm is high in copper & at certain time of the year some legumes are very prolific,
and as legumes are high in copper and we very feeding Pat Coleby's Mineral Mix the result was NOT GOOD.......

Reason on 2 is the copper sulfate drench, must be the correct mix (not dads homemade mix) and it must be put it their mouth, not down the lungs,

If you were feeding is daily in their food I don't think there would be any concern.

It is only when you drench them, or they are getting too much via legumes that there is a concern, as far as I can see,

If you do get copper poisoning, dolomite, Vitamin C, & Charcoal powder work wonders,

In all the time I have been running goats (which was right through when we had problems with sheep & copper & since then) I have never has copper poisoning in my goats, in fact when the sheep were sick, the goats never looked better, they were dark colored girls tho, 
and as pat coleby says dark animals can handle, is it 10 times more copper then light, that is true, we never lost 1 black sheep,

Word of warning 
NEVER drench with neat copper in any form.....always use dolomite with it, as Pat says


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## liz

I used the same dosing as refferred to in the book mentioned, wether it was because the dosing was "made" for standard sized goats OR mine were getting plenty in their feed and minerals I lost my nigi/pygmy Tilly a year ago June 26th...2 days after I dosed, 3 others showed INSTANT signs of poisoning within 15 minutes of dosing.

I changed minerals to one with no added iron and higher levels of copper to help ensure they get what they need.

This was my experience, I'm sure others who have done this have done so successfully, I won't reccomend this form of supplementing due to the loss and near losses I had.

After a frantic call to Stacey, the yearling does were given activated charcoal gel and followed with Milk of Magnesia..Tilly did not show signs of poisoning but was given MOM as well...I found her as if she passed in her sleep just outside their door at 5 am on Monday...she was dosed at 4pm Saturday.


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## Gumtree

what was the mix you gave her? the actual recipe?


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## liz

1 level teaspoon with 30cc of water and given as a drench.


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## Gumtree

uh oh, that not a good mix, no wonder your doe got sick, :-(
what book did you that from, ? :-/


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## liz

The one mentioned in milkmaids first post.


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## milkmaid

I am so sorry you lost her, Liz.  :hug: Thank you for sharing your story.
I add a little copper sulfate to their loose minerals, but the black goat needs some in her feed too...I'm always careful but will be doubly careful after hearing this.


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## Plumbago

Hi Everyone

Well I swear by copper in the goats diet and by Pat Colby's recommendation in feeding. For eight years all the miniatures in my herd receive 5 grams of copper sulphate per head each week mixed in the water and apple cider vinegar that soaks the barley that is then feed in a muslei type mix each day. Never had a problem, they also have free access to a mineral lick block which has copper in it and drink the water from the water troughs which is treated with a trough block that also contains copper. I only worm once a year when the new green lush grass comes through beginning of winter and I do dose the does straight after kidding. New goats (which is rare) coming onto the property are always wormed as well. All keep in excellent health and look great. Have rescued some goats and they take up to around 5 months with this feeding regime and copper intake and find their coats and health improve. With the feeding regime above I do not have sickness or signs of worms in my goats. 
I understand Goats need copper to maintain their health in their bodies.
To use Copper as a complete worming tool or drench, I think is risky. Goats naturally do get copper from browsing and pasture plants and giving a large doseage in one hit, I think is too risky for their bodies. 
- having correct copper levels it is presumed that the worms will not multiply and feed off the goat --therefore helps control the worms and the above mentioned problems. I do read alot of goat owners give copper as a drench. I would not drench with copper without having some testing done that the actual animal is lacking in copper and most certainly would have testing done before giving 1 tsp a day per head as Pat Colby states she has dosed -- there is no doubt you do have to be very careful...
Sheep are less tolerate out of all livestock to tolerate copper.


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## milkmaid

Gumtree and Plumbago - glad to know it works for you! Guess you just have to be really careful. For myself, I like the results I have had so well I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing.

Gumtree, you mention dolomite. Where do you get it? The only place I can find it in bulk is Hoegger, and the shipping is rather expensive.


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## Mon Reve Farm

I do add copper sulfate to our mineral mix as it does not have the higher amount they need. However, when I am doing this it is a small percentage of the overall combination that they are receiving. Although I felt that a lot of what Pat's book communicated was helpful I was worried since I have NDDGs instead of her full sized breeds.

It has worked for us here because of my caution in use but as others have said their is a serious potential for problems. You need to be very careful and assess all factors. What works for one person may not always work for everyone.


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## Plumbago

Regards the dolomite -- I do add it to the muslei mix but cease giving to the does four weeks prior to kidding. 
In Australia - we buy it at local livestock or any farm outlet feed stores. 
Can also buy it in bulk. We spread it on your paddocks every three years as an alternative to using chemical fertilisers. 
Very high in calcium and magnesium and helps to breakup the soil.


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## SweetSaanens

Hmmm, we are trying the copper recommendation in pat coleby's book this year. She has a mix that mixes the copper sulfate with the dolomite powder along with some other things (kelp etc.). She says to mix the copper with the dolomite so that even if they were to eat more than they should the dolomite will neutralize the excess copper.

I found dolomite powder online for $42 including shipping for 30lbs. http://www.jollygerman.com/products/goa ... mite.shtml

I have spoken to several organic goat farmers that have had great success with he recommendations in the book.

To anyone else that has used the formula in natural goat care, have you only used dolomite powder or is the ground dolomite ok too? (the store closer to us only has ground dolomite with a texture like salt)


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## RunAround

Copper Sulfate is used as a drain cleaner.... imho something that is used to clean my drain shouldn't be used on a living thing....


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## cdtrum

Would have to agree with RunAround!


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## SweetSaanens

Anyone like olives? Olives are quite often preserved with lye. Lye is also a drain cleaner.
We all eat stuff that probably shouldn't be fed to a living things but goats NEED some copper. Some of the copper inside the goat balancer or mineral mixes is copper sulfate anyway. Probably the same goes for feed with copper in it.


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## cdtrum

Copper Bolusing is much safer.....I had rather use boluses, but everyone has to manage their animals the way they see fit.......after seeing a member here lose a beloved goat from using copper sulfate, I'm just not willing to chance it.


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## blip3200

She (Pat Coleby) says in a very short mention that you always need to give copper with dolomite, otherwise it is toxic. It's a shame she doesn't make that point more clear. I almost gave my goats straight copper until I read that.


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## Laurel

I love Pat Coleby's book, but it has to be read and used very carefully. She says copper should never be given without dolomite, which prevents copper toxicity, with at least twice as much dolomite as copper. They can't be given together in liquid form as they neutralize each other which makes them useless. As a drench for worms, they must be given dry, and together, not copper alone. She recommends vitamin C powder with them too. 

Regarding the comment that copper sulphate is used as a drain cleaner, don't forget that baking soda and vinegar are great drain cleaners, and we give them to our goats. It doesn't follow that goats don't need high levels of copper.


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## Mamaboyd

We give copper sulphate sprinkled on our goats feed , just 1/2 teaspoon per goat. Now I am thinking this may not be a good idea? We were told to do this by e goats previous owner. New to goats but always learning new things!


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## milkmaid

Since I started this thread, I've had quite a bit of experience with copper sulfate. IME, Copper sulfate is okay in small amounts without dolomite. However, the exact amount is really hard to determine. There are two kinds of copper poisoning: chronic and acute. Acute is when you give way too much all at once. Chronic is when you give just a little too much, over a long period of time so it builds up in the liver.
_I would guess (though I'm not sure)_ that if you give your goats copper for a while, then take a break till they start looking like they need it again, that would ensure that copper wasn't building up in the liver. Chronic poisoning can occur with boluses too if you give too much.
I have tried both copper sulfate and boluses, and IMHO boluses are better. They work well against worms, at least for my goats. Since I started bolusing a year or so ago, my own goats have not needed worming AT ALL. Fecals have been really good.


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## lottsagoats

Copper sulfate is not something that I would mess with personally, I've known too many animals poisoned by it. Copper does help with barber pole worm problems but I use the copper oxide rods in a bolus. That provides 6 to 12 months worht of copper protection without the danger of overdosing. It is dissolved at a fixed rate in the rumen so the blood copper level remains stable day to day.

Copper sulfate is also sold to kill roots in your septic system.


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## familiar spirits

Gumtree said:


> Yes it does control worms, including barbers pole worm,
> My parents have been a certified organic sheep farmers and it has been one of their main methods of controlling worms,
> but we have made a lot of mistakes and lost a lot of sheep to copper poisoning,
> 
> This was because of two reasons 1 our farm is high in copper & at certain time of the year some legumes are very prolific,
> and as legumes are high in copper and we very feeding Pat Coleby's Mineral Mix the result was NOT GOOD.......
> 
> Reason on 2 is the copper sulfate drench, must be the correct mix (not dads homemade mix) and it must be put it their mouth, not down the lungs,
> 
> If you were feeding is daily in their food I don't think there would be any concern.
> 
> It is only when you drench them, or they are getting too much via legumes that there is a concern, as far as I can see,
> 
> If you do get copper poisoning, dolomite, Vitamin C, & Charcoal powder work wonders,
> 
> In all the time I have been running goats (which was right through when we had problems with sheep & copper & since then) I have never has copper poisoning in my goats, in fact when the sheep were sick, the goats never looked better, they were dark colored girls tho,
> and as pat coleby says dark animals can handle, is it 10 times more copper then light, that is true, we never lost 1 black sheep,
> 
> Word of warning
> NEVER drench with neat copper in any form.....always use dolomite with it, as Pat says


I dosed my lovely angora Angie early this evening with coppersulphate and dolomite 50/50 mix in a film canister and she was dead in a few hours.


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## ksalvagno

This is an old thread from 2014. Sorry you lost your goat.


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## Cedarwinds Farm

familiar spirits said:


> I dosed my lovely angora Angie early this evening with coppersulphate and dolomite 50/50 mix in a film canister and she was dead in a few hours.


I am so sorry! I don't want to resurrect an old thread here, but I would add, I listened to a really good podcast episode of For the Love of Goats that talked about using copper oxide wires to boost the effectiveness of dewormers. I highly recommend checking that out. I'll see if I can find a link, if you're interested.


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## familiar spirits

blip3200 said:


> She (Pat Coleby) says in a very short mention that you always need to give copper with dolomite, otherwise it is toxic. It's a shame she doesn't make that point more clear. I almost gave my goats straight copper until I read that.


I did mix with dolomite, it was a film canister 50/50 mix dolomite and copper sulphate. I think now Pat Coleby is just wrong. I've lost a few goats trying to follow her advice, and Angie was the last one, last night.


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## familiar spirits

familiar spirits said:


> I did mix with dolomite, it was a film canister 50/50 mix dolomite and copper sulphate. I think now Pat Coleby is just wrong. I've lost a few goats trying to follow her advice, and Angie was the last one, last night.


Hey, thanks for that. I just found the podcast, will listen.


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## familiar spirits

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> I am so sorry! I don't want to resurrect an old thread here, but I would add, I listened to a really good podcast episode of For the Love of Goats that talked about using copper oxide wires to boost the effectiveness of dewormers. I highly recommend checking that out. I'll see if I can find a link, if you're interested.


Hey, thanks for that. I just found the podcast, will listen. ‎For the Love of Goats on Apple Podcasts


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## Cedarwinds Farm

familiar spirits said:


> Hey, thanks for that. I just found the podcast, will listen. ‎For the Love of Goats on Apple Podcasts


Good deal! Hope you find it helpful!


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## familiar spirits

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Good deal! Hope you find it helpful!


Pat Coleby stresses the importance of copper, but that stuff killed Angie last night. I thought she looked anaemic and she wouldn't eat the copper soaked barley I've been feeding for years, so I gave the 50/50 mix in a film canister. Was that just too much, do you think?


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## familiar spirits

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Good deal! Hope you find it helpful!





Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Good deal! Hope you find it helpful!


I feel stupid and terrible, I just weighed the dose and it would have been about 19grams of copper sulphate I gave to her, with about the same volume of dolomite. The way Coleby raves about it you would think it is harmless.


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## lada823

I've never heard of using copper sulfate for anything except keeping pond water clear. So sorry you lost your goat! I bolus with copper rods, use a loose mineral high in copper and use replamin gel weekly. I have a lot of black goats and they all look great.


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## Cedarwinds Farm

familiar spirits said:


> I feel stupid and terrible, I just weighed the dose and it would have been about 19grams of copper sulphate I gave to her, with about the same volume of dolomite. The way Coleby raves about it you would think it is harmless.


I know a few years back, there were people using copper sulfate, but I think the consensus now is that copper oxide is safer and better to use. I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way...but we're all learning. And I'm sure some of the things we swear by today will be outdated in 5 years.
My understanding is that copper can build up in their system until it reaches a toxic level. So that is why it's good to be careful not to overdose.


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## ksalvagno

The problem with Pat Coleby's advice is that she lives in Australia. What the needs are in Australia may not be the same needs as where you live. Nothing is simple and her promoting just add dolomite to copper sulfate is irresponsible since most people reading her book don't have the experience and knowledge to understand the interaction and dose correctly. I'm sorry you lost your goat. We all have a similar story with losing a goat.


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## familiar spirits

ksalvagno said:


> The problem with Pat Coleby's advice is that she lives in Australia. What the needs are in Australia may not be the same needs as where you live. Nothing is simple and her promoting just add dolomite to copper sulfate is irresponsible since most people reading her book don't have the experience and knowledge to understand the interaction and dose correctly. I'm sorry you lost your goat. We all have a similar story with losing a goat.


I'm in Australia, but you are still right. I live on the east coast it's a climate of high rainfall at the moment, and worms I assumed. Actually she would have been fine I think if I had just left her alone.


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## camooweal

milkmaid said:


> Hi all, I'm just wondering if anyone here has experience with copper sulfate for worm prevention. I really like Pat Coleby's book "Natural Goat Care," and in it she goes on and on about how important copper is, and how it prevents all kinds of worms. I can't find much info on it anywhere else. Does anyone have any success or failure stories? Or any information?
> Thanks!


We've used Pat Coleby's mix and currently have triplet sisters, two-and-a-half years old, never been wormed but have been daily getting her mix of dolomite, seaweed meal, copper and sulphur since the day they first stuck their little noses in the feed trough along with their mother.
We've also given copper mixed with dolomite which is the antidote to copper poisoning. We do add a good amount of dolomite though on the rare occasion somebody gets straight copper. If they're getting a dessert spoon of copper we'll add four dessert spoons of dolomite just to be sure. 
The first time we used copper and dolomite was on a young heifer who for some reason or other wasn't doing well. She'd been drenched chemically a number of times but still wasn't picking up so we decided to try out the copper/dolomite on her as there was nothing to lose. We weren't sure what to expect but she was still with us the next day and for some time afterward.
camooweal


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## familiar spirits

camooweal said:


> We've used Pat Coleby's mix and currently have triplet sisters, two-and-a-half years old, never been wormed but have been daily getting her mix of dolomite, seaweed meal, copper and sulphur since the day they first stuck their little noses in the feed trough along with their mother.
> We've also given copper mixed with dolomite which is the antidote to copper poisoning. We do add a good amount of dolomite though on the rare occasion somebody gets straight copper. If they're getting a dessert spoon of copper we'll add four dessert spoons of dolomite just to be sure.
> The first time we used copper and dolomite was on a young heifer who for some reason or other wasn't doing well. She'd been drenched chemically a number of times but still wasn't picking up so we decided to try out the copper/dolomite on her as there was nothing to lose. We weren't sure what to expect but she was still with us the next day and for some time afterward.
> camooweal


A dessert spoon of copper sulphate? That would getting close to the half a film canister I gave Angie without thinking. So it might have been OK with more dolomite as an antidote? Charcoal may have been better. You don't mean cows when you say a heifer?


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## Birdie

familiar spirits said:


> A dessert spoon of copper sulphate? That would getting close to the half a film canister I gave Angie without thinking. So it might have been OK with more dolomite as an antidote? Charcoal may have been better. You don't mean cows when you say a heifer?


We give our goats supplementary copper sulfate as a top dressing on their food. Like camooweal, we mix ours with dolomite-- 1 part copper sulfate to 4 parts dolomite. Each one gets about 1/4 tsp of that mixture every other day. It's a tiny dose, but it has made a huge difference in the health of our goats. Fish tails, anemia, rough coats, parasite issues-- all have reduced dramatically since we switched from using the boluses to the copper sulfate powder. With our low copper soils and high iron water, the boluses just never made a dent in the deficiencies. 
One tip-- when mixing the dolomite and copper, make sure it is very thoroughly mixed so that the goat is truly getting the 1:4 ratio. 
Sorry to hear about your goat.


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## familiar spirits

Birdie said:


> We give our goats supplementary copper sulfate as a top dressing on their food. Like camooweal, we mix ours with dolomite-- 1 part copper sulfate to 4 parts dolomite. Each one gets about 1/4 tsp of that mixture every other day. It's a tiny dose, but it has made a huge difference in the health of our goats. Fish tails, anemia, rough coats, parasite issues-- all have reduced dramatically since we switched from using the boluses to the copper sulfate powder. With our low copper soils and high iron water, the boluses just never made a dent in the deficiencies.
> One tip-- when mixing the dolomite and copper, make sure it is very thoroughly mixed so that the goat is truly getting the 1:4 ratio.
> Sorry to hear about your goat.


Hey thanks Birdie, I should have taken more care to get the dose correct. I was feeding them about that amount you give, but with the copper soaked in directly into the whole barley. Then my British Alpine went off that feed and died a few months later, so I panicked when the other girl went off her's, and so I dosed her, and I forgot how dangerous that stuff was.


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## Birdie

familiar spirits said:


> Hey thanks Birdie, I should have taken more care to get the dose correct. I was feeding them about that amount you give, but with the copper soaked in directly into the whole barley. Then my British Alpine went off that feed and died a few months later, so I panicked when the other girl went off her's, and so I dosed her, and I forgot how dangerous that stuff was.


That's so hard. I think dealing with mineral imbalances is the hardest thing about getting started with goats. It's super common to underestimate how complicated and deadly it can be. Don't beat yourself up about it-- many of us have been in similar situations. It's extremely hard and sad-- but we learn from it and try to move forward with our new knowledge. Hang in there!


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## toth boer goats

Copper Oxide is what should be used on deficient goats because it is a slow release.
If you dosed it properly, with no results you may of overdosed it and the symptoms are just the same as deficiency. 
Although it takes 4 months for hair to begin to grow back on tailhead. You have to look closely.

Hair color change, a lot of times, the goat may have to wait to shed it out the following season to see results.

It takes time for a goats body to respond to deficiency issues after treatment.

Toxic levels can show the same symptoms.

Cooper sulfate can be really dangerous to give and can be over dosed very quickly. I heed great caution and do not recommend using this.


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## familiar spirits

Hi thanks Pam, wish someone had told me that before. Somebody has recommended growing mugwort and wormwood for control of parasites. Would love to know if people have had success with these?


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## toth boer goats

You are welcome. 

Never used those, so cannot advise.


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## Birdie

I've used wormwood briefly in the past but I don't really know how effective it was. I've been using cayenne pepper,and it's been amazing. Game changer for barber pole worm. I still use cydectin/etc. as well when necessary (esp. during kidding or based on FAMACHA scoring for individuals), but I've been drastically able to reduce usage of those by adding cayenne. Big thanks to some of the folks on the family cow forum for help figuring out how to do it.


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## DDFN

I use copper sulfate but only a pinch once a week on some raisins. I never even get close to the "recommended" dose and never drench it. I had heard of a lot of people having issues when drenching it to goats. Never had a problem with it and it has helped over the years but again I under dose it to play it safe. 

I use Molly's Herbal wormer (mine did not like LoH) so I had to stick with Molly's. I do my own fecals and will use a chemical wormer like ivermectin when needed. Also have honeysuckle and cedar they can munch on as they desire.


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## rushingroadranch

RunAround said:


> Copper Sulfate is used as a drain cleaner.... imho something that is used to clean my drain shouldn't be used on a living thing....


Copper sulfate was also one of the earliest sanitizer used to make drinking water safe, before chlorine and other things were available.


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