# Thinking about a LGD



## nursehelg (Jul 5, 2012)

We will be working on fencing off our property and giving our goats more room to roam. I would like to add a LGD to our little farm. How would I go about introducing our goats to a LGD if they have not been around one before? My ND want to jump our shih tzu and any other dog that comes around their pen.


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

It depends on what you get. If you start with a puppy, I would set up a pen inside the goat pen for the pup. This will allow the goats to get comfortable with the pup without the pup getting hurt by a goat. During this time, you will take the pup out of the pen when you are around and walk it among the goats being careful to make sure the goats aren't picking on the pup. This is also a good time to walk the perimeter with the pup, and teach him the boundaries. 

If you start with a full grown, experienced, LGD, then you will just put him in the pen with the goats. A full grown dog should know how to stay away from your goats until they are comfortable with him. Also, the dog should ignore if they run from him. Goats are naturally curious, and once they realize the dog won't eat them, then they will come around.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

SCRMG said:


> It depends on what you get. If you start with a puppy, I would set up a pen inside the goat pen for the pup. This will allow the goats to get comfortable with the pup without the pup getting hurt by a goat. During this time, you will take the pup out of the pen when you are around and walk it among the goats being careful to make sure the goats aren't picking on the pup. This is also a good time to walk the perimeter with the pup, and teach him the boundaries.
> 
> If you start with a full grown, experienced, LGD, then you will just put him in the pen with the goats. A full grown dog should know how to stay away from your goats until they are comfortable with him. Also, the dog should ignore if they run from him. Goats are naturally curious, and once they realize the dog won't eat them, then they will come around.


I agree. My LGD wasn't meant to be a LGD.. He just does it naturally. He loves the loves the goats and is protective by nature so he enjoys his job. He is a mastiff mix (Supposed to be a presa canario but no proof so I call him mastiff mix). I got him as a rescue and just last year he would follow me into feed the wethers and bottle kid. He really bonded with the bottle kid and now they're best friends... She thinks shes a dog. He has always been laid back and kind of go with the flow so I'm sure that helps. He does NOT like strange dogs at all... which is good where we live. We have the neighbors dogs to worry about and coyotes.

As far as breed, I've heard pyrenees can get people aggressive if they don't know the person. That can be a problem if you have alot of different people over. I've heard maremmas are better about strangers. I personally love an anotlian... Beautiful dogs! I don't know anyone who has one so I can't attest to personality. Most LGD will do it naturally but need a guiding hand. Puppies will want to play and in all honesty, I wouldn't trust a young dog or puppy fully. I'd try to get an older, experienced dog and a pup so it can learn from the older dog.


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

Dani-1995 is right. A pup should be closely supervised in the beginning with the goats to discourage "playful" behavior with the goats that may lead to ears being chewed on etcetera... I tend to recommend that first time LGD owners look for a grown and working LGD. They are harder to find, but worth their weight in gold for what they will teach you. Plus, with a pup, you've got to remember, they may have the heart, but they don't have the physical capability to guard yet.

On breeds, I think Dani may have the Pyr and Maremma backwards. The Pyr is actually one of the least human aggressive of the LGDs. There are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part they are not going to bite strangers. I saw a statistic the other day, I wish I could remember where, but it compared common LGD breeds with reported bites. The Pyr had the lowest number, which is saying something since they are also the most common. I know a guy who used to run 20+ Pyrs in with his goats. His biggest loss came from people stealing goats, his Pyrs would bark, but wouldn't confront a person.

This goes against what a lot of people say, but, personally, I socialize my LGDs. The more human aggressive the breed, the more I socialize them. So my Pyrs get moderate socializing, while my Sarplaninac is heavily socialized. This does not change their ability to guard, and I don't think a stranger would take a goat out from under my Sar, but if I'm there, I do not have to worry about my LGD biting someone who is looking to buy a goat.

Read up on different breeds. Focus on their level of human aggression, and also guarding style. Do not pick a dog based on look, but one who's breed guards in a way that best suits your needs. When you get ready, beat the pavement, and explore your options. If you can meet the parents, watch how they act and work. If you are not buying local, ask the breeder tough questions about the parents, and how the puppies are being started. Don't forget to ask about health. There are a lot of breeders out there who are in this to make a quick buck. The quickest way to filter them out is to ask the tough questions. Are the parents vaccinated? Are the puppies vaccinated? What worming program do you use? Are the parents hips OFA certified? An LGD is a significant investment, you want to make sure you are getting a quality dog.

Good luck, and keep any questions you have coming. There is a lot of experience on this Forum, and people who will help you out in making a good decision.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

SCRMG said:


> On breeds, I think Dani may have the Pyr and Maremma backwards. The Pyr is actually one of the least human aggressive of the LGDs. There are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part they are not going to bite strangers. I saw a statistic the other day, I wish I could remember where, but it compared common LGD breeds with reported bites. The Pyr had the lowest number, which is saying something since they are also the most common. I know a guy who used to run 20+ Pyrs in with his goats. His biggest loss came from people stealing goats, his Pyrs would bark, but wouldn't confront a person.
> 
> This goes against what a lot of people say, but, personally, I socialize my LGDs. The more human aggressive the breed, the more I socialize them. So my Pyrs get moderate socializing, while my Sarplaninac is heavily socialized. This does not change their ability to guard, and I don't think a stranger would take a goat out from under my Sar, but if I'm there, I do not have to worry about my LGD biting someone who is looking to buy a goat.


Oops, yeah I did get that backwards. Sorry about that... goats have me turned all around today


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## motdaugrnds (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm enjoying this thread and will be following it as I've been researching LGD for my little 6-acre homestead for about 2 yrs now ... slowly as I've had so much other things to do this year.


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## nursehelg (Jul 5, 2012)

How much room does an LGD need? I will be fencing 1 1/2 acres during the summer months gradually. Will they be ok around chickens?


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## motdaugrnds (Mar 20, 2013)

SCRMG, I've not heard of the Sarplaninac breed. Will be doing some research about it. Do you know anything about the Karakachan?


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

The only thing I know about a Karakachan is that they are Bulgarian. I haven't looked much at them, but I will.

The Sarplaninac originates from the former Yugoslavia. The name translates into Sar Plania Mountain sheep dog. It's an old breed, and highly regarded in the region (the dog is on the Macedonian 1 Denar). They are medium sized for guardians, usually 80-120lbs, but what they lack in size they make up for in heart, and unusually large teeth. They are fiercely protective of their own. They bond to livestock and a single person. They will protect a family, but the bond is strongest with their master who the tend to view more as a partner. These dogs are aloof to strangers but can become aggressive. The predators of the Sar Mtn include wolves and bears, the Sar is capable of handling them.

Above is the general description. My girl is about 7 months, but I'm seeing those traits develop in her. She is developing into a really good guardian. She wasn't originally started on livestock (they aren't very common in the US), but shows a strong natural apptitude for the work. The picture I attached is from her first meeting with my buck. It went well.


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## motdaugrnds (Mar 20, 2013)

Great info and good repore (mispelled) between that buck and your Sarplaninac. Thanks for sharing.


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