# Nigerian owners I could use advice



## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Ok, I know I said my husband and I decided on Nubians BUT, I had the opportunity to visit some Nigerians and fell in love with them! They were super sweet, easy to handle, and the kids were ridiculously cute! Now, I know they usually produce 1-2 quarts a day but I have read some really negative things about the amount they produce on other sites and that the milk is way too thick and sweet. Now, half a gallon a day would be plenty for my family to drink but I also would like to make cheese, yogurt, butter, and eventually soap. I am only planning on two goats, so those of you with Nigerians can you give me the pros and cons. How much do they normally produce in their first freshening? I am in a tossup between Nigerians and Nubians and want to make the right decision for our family not just with my heart lol:hammer:


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

I raise Nubians but am very close with a family that breeds nigis. We love their milk! Most people enjoy the taste and dont see it negatively. But it is very comparable in taste to my Nubian milk. Both are high in butterfat content giving it that creamery sweeter taste. A Nubian will milk around a gallon for you each day. I don't like bottle feeding kids, so I separate kids at night and milk in the mornings, meaning I get about 1/2 gallon from each of my does a day. my friends usually only get a few cups from their nigis using this same method. You can't go wrong with either breed in my opinion. it comes down to how much milk you need and what you love more than the taste of the milk. Just curious though, I've you visited a Nubian herd yet? Dont rule them out till you see them. Nubians have sweet expressive eyes, and adorable kids... But I'm a sucker for those long ears. They were much easier for me to learn to milk on too, bigger teats. Lol. though I can milk just about anything now.


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## NigerianGirl (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree completely the only thing that makes me favorable to the Nigerian is how sturdy they are and they are super cuddly I have never personally owned a Nubian but my friend had a few at one point and she Saud hers were always getting sick and were a lot more fragile now as I said I've never personally owned one my first pick was Nigerian and I've been here every since


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

RedGate said:


> I raise Nubians but am very close with a family that breeds nigis. We love their milk! Most people enjoy the taste and dont see it negatively. But it is very comparable in taste to my Nubian milk. Both are high in butterfat content giving it that creamery sweeter taste. A Nubian will milk around a gallon for you each day. I don't like bottle feeding kids, so I separate kids at night and milk in the mornings, meaning I get about 1/2 gallon from each of my does a day. my friends usually only get a few cups from their nigis using this same method. You can't go wrong with either breed in my opinion. it comes down to how much milk you need and what you love more than the taste of the milk. Just curious though, I've you visited a Nubian herd yet? Dont rule them out till you see them. Nubians have sweet expressive eyes, and adorable kids... But I'm a sucker for those long ears. They were much easier for me to learn to milk on too, bigger teats. Lol. though I can milk just about anything now.


I have been around nubians before and love them too! They have always been my "favorite" breed since I was a child. I'm just thinking since I only have an acre and this is my first venture into owning goats I might do better with something that weighs less than me lol! I have heard Nubians are very gentle and have great milk production. Since you raise Nubians, how many lbs of roughage and grain do you have to feed the does when they are lactating? We have no forage out here and must purchase all of our own alfalfa/bermuda in bales...at 20.00 a bale  So I'm wondering if they are going to be very expensive to feed?


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

It's all in the butterfat content. The best way I can explain is regular store milk at 2% is going to taste similar to Saanen milk. The more butterfat content the sweeter/thicker the milk. Nubians range 4-5% and IMO have a really good tasting milk. Problem with Nubians is the range of production is so dramatically different among herds that you're not going to know until you get her home what she will produce. Nigerians content range 6-10% - a very sweet milk almost like half and half creamer. I like my cream and Love Nigerian milk! It also makes wonderful cheeses and soaps. 

If you can only get one doe, I would go with the nubian because she will bring in about half a gallon a day. If you get two nigerians they together will bring in that much. If you want some really good cheese or love your coffee with cream - Nigerian. Either way they are both wonderful dairy goats and two of my favorite. I just love the cream more.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

I am getting 2 does for sure...we may add more in the future  My husband LOVES rich creamy milk but is sensitive to cow's milk, both my kids are on the small side and have to drink a glass of whole milk everyday per doctors orders. We go through about a gallon of milk every 5 days. Would two nigerians keep up with this order?


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Esther88 said:


> I am getting 2 does for sure...we may add more in the future  My husband LOVES rich creamy milk but is sensitive to cow's milk, both my kids are on the small side and have to drink a glass of whole milk everyday per doctors orders. We go through about a gallon of milk every 5 days. Would two nigerians keep up with this order?


Mine stay about 1qt a day so, 4qt = 4days = 1 gallon So two Nigerians would give you around two gallons in 5 days (hope that's right - it's late here) I was allergic to cow's milk as a child and the only thing I could keep down was goat milk. It is easier to digest than cow's milk so your husband shouldn't have a problem with it. Warning - Once you get the Nigerians, you'll want more.


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## WalshKidsGoats (Nov 27, 2012)

We raise Nigerians and LOVE the taste their milk! Even my four year old little brother likes it and that's saying a lot! Maybe whoever said that their milk was too rich was used to drinking 1% milk 

Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
www.walshkidsgoats.com
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Walsh-Kids-Nigerian-Dwarf-Goats/324321484319986


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

My 5 big milker girls (3 Nubians and 2 alpines) go trough about 6 flakes of bermuda/Timothy a day or 3/4 of a bale. These bales are packed pretty tight and compact, buying hay from somewhere else we may go through the whole bale. Our hay is 3.50 a bale. I've never weighed out how much feed they each get, but I use a plastic coffee can and they each usually get around half a can of 18% calf starter morning and evening with 2 cups of alfalfa pellets on top and a handful if calf manna . My Nubians have been very easy keepers. Even when milking pretty heavy. I rarely have to up their feed, mine probably stay a bit fat most of the year, but I feel like I can't pour enough to my alpines! When I start drying up, I go down to just feeding alfalfa pellets in the morning, and grain in the evenings. Those five live in a paddock thats maybe an acre with no access to pasture- though i do take them for walks through the woods often. I haven't had any worm issues since I moved them off grass pasture. Its been great. From what I've seen, it's better to have no access to pasture than have access to short pasture(grass is under 6 inches is where your parasites are). So two standard does is still doable even with a small set up  

Hey, you could do a nubie and a nigi  really, I think you put in what you get out. More feed in a standard, more milk out. Nigi eats less, makes less milk.


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

I did want to comment about quantity of milk. Make sure you ask how much the does family is milking. Dam and sisters and bucks mother. Because nubies and nigis are so popular, you may have to weed through some not so quality animals until you find those good milkers.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with the amounts- we were getting a quart a day with mom nursing twins and us milking just in the morning. We are still getting used to the more creamy milk so we dilute it a little with water and this helps and extends the duration too.


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## MOgoatlady (Oct 23, 2012)

In regards to the creaminess of the milk I was skimming most of the cream off of our nubian milk and freezing it in a mason jar. Once the jar got full we would make butter with it, or giving it to my mom who loves it in her coffee and it didn't affect the taste of the milk. I like both, and in my mind it is about the amount of milk you want. With the amount you are already drinking you might get one of each, or look into mini nubians (I don't know anything about their milk)


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Nigerians can be SUPER producers, you just have to buy from the right bloodlines. Fairlea goats are great producers. They are very hardy sweet and easy to handle. I love them to bits  Their milk is sweet and rich, but so is Nubian milk. I personally love how sweet and rich the milk is


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I personally favor the Nigerians. I have a mini nubian and honestly she never shuts up, they are alot more vocal and although it's cute at sometimes it's not ALL the time lol. I also love the taste of Nigerian milk it taste just like cows milk only better. A FF obviously isn't going to produce as much as a 2nd and so forth but they still produce enough need less room and require less feed are easier for kids to handle and just all around I love them. YOur best bet is to get from good milkling lines don't buy just any ol goat. Mine aren't on the milk test and I'm just starting out so i have all FF besides one and i'm waiting for her to kid to see how she does so i'm still in the evaluating stage with mine. I do know a breeder that has hers on a milk test and I highly recommend her if your interested in knowing who PM me.


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## Goatieberries (Jan 8, 2013)

I love my nigies. I also get about a quart a day from each of them even when I let them nurse their kids. I can get closer to 2 quarts if I stick to an every 12 hour milking schedule. I think it's better that the milk is richer you get more bang for your buck so to speak and the cost of feeding, housing, fencing is less since they are so much smaller. Get a cream seperator if you don't like the rich milk and you'll have butter, skim milk and cream! I'm about to start making soaps & lotions with the milk and I can't wait! PS-if you are getting them for their milk production be sure to get them from good milking lines!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

One of my Nigerian does gave a quart each milking -- while feeding her twins! Unfortunately I had to let her go since she needed the life of a pet, but I have her daughter and can't wait to see how she does!

If you are looking for small and manageable, Nigerians are great. Or, you could look into a Nigerian mix  They are also easier to sell as pets to families with small kids. Of course IMO no breed is better than another. The Nigerians are just a good fit for me.


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

This is how I came to my decision between the two:

Nubians - Larger and I can only have two
ND's- smaller, easier to handle and I can have four to six - less feed

Lose one of the two Nubians and I've lost half my stock
Lose one ND and I've lost 1/6 to 1/4 of my stock.

Breed two ND's once per year - lots of milk, lots of babies... life is good. :sun:


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Could you get 1 of each? How will you breed them? Maybe a mini nubian?

Nubian breeders speak up here for me but are they a vocal goat compared to others?

You have to train your goat to the milk stand, admin care, trim it's hooves, be at the kiddings, milk your new goat, sell the babies... I think there are more questions to ask than how much milk you will be getting. Milk production is going to vary by pedigree, age of doe, number of freshenings, and feed. Then there is also the question of longevity of being in milk. Some girls will go for over a year and others 6 months.

BTW 6%-10% on Nigerians is possible but I've only seen highs in the 6%. Never 7%. It depends a lot on your feed management. But I would test the milk to know for sure.

Just some thoughts ....


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

my 2cents.Mine are ND My first freshener, who mind you I waited to long when I started milking ie the kids were almost weaned gave me a quart a day easy. Her mom and sisters who started being milked once a day when the kids were 10 days old, were producing 2qts (mom was 2qts +). As for thick, I don't think so at all. I drank 2% milk for gosh 15 yrs so I was worried about that. Nope it was sooo good! Mine got dairy pellets and alfalfa and it was great tasting, and I used it for milk and cheese. I'm going to try to keep 2 at a time in milk all year- 2 on 2 off. Hope that helps.


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## Goatieberries (Jan 8, 2013)

That is one more plus the Nigerians are not seasonal breeders so you can stagger breed them to have milk all year long if you want to.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I would recommend buying from good milking bloodlines. I have Nigerians, LOVE them. Do you want to buy kids and raise them up or milking adults? If you get them as kids, it may be 1.5 years before you get milk. We generally choose to wait to breed Nigy's till they are a year old. Nubians can be bred at 80lbs (7-8 months old generally). I had a Nubian here, she was a bottle baby, I was keeping her for awhile for a friend. She was very friendly, however, at 125-35lbs, she was a LOAD. She could knock me down if I wasn't ready, she was always knocking food out of my hand. And...omgosh the noise...she made more noise then my whole herd of Nigerians. If you have close neighbors that may be a consideration. I was really glad to see her go home.

Now, breeding and birthing Nigerians is not for the "faint of heart". Sometimes, it requires the skill of an expert obstetrician. Imagine...3 or 4 kids trying to get out through a "garden hose" (lol). Or worse, 1 huge kid. There is a lot more space inside a Nubian. I don't want to deter you...but...it's something you need to know. After 2 c-sections, and some guidance from my Vet, Prayer and help here at TGS, I've become pretty good at getting kids out quickly. Thank you Lord. 

My Nigerians give me 3-6lbs of milk/day, all goats have "peaks and valleys" of production, so ask what the "average" production is for the does you are considering. If the breeder doesn't milk her goats...I would try to find one who does. You want more then a "cute" baby...don't buy for color or blue eyes...those don't mean a thing when you are talking about milk production. I think 2 well bred Nigerians will give you all the milk you want, and considering your area, be much less expensive to feed.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Since you raise Nubians, how many lbs of roughage and grain do you have to feed the does when they are lactating? We have no forage out here and must purchase all of our own alfalfa/bermuda in bales...at 20.00 a bale  So I'm wondering if they are going to be very expensive to feed?[/QUOTE]
Wow 20 a bale, are you talking at the feed store- because at the feed store we'd pay $15 bale (they are about 60# bales). Where as when I buy a ton (I pay 180) but the going rate is about 200-225 a ton here for alfalfa. Look into buying a ton in your area to get a better price while you are doing the math end. Of course no matter what breed you'll have free choice minerals- which aren't expensive and last some time. Then there is what ever grain or dairy pellets you buy. 
Fencing, which is only an initial cost. full size goats seem to be able to handle the 4' field fence (which has bigger holes- 4x4 roughly) - here a 330' roll is $200. With the ND you need the smaller fencing if you're going to have young ones/kids- the 4' horse non climb with 2x4" holes- again here 100' roll is $200. But, as I mentioned that is a initial cost and won't affect your monthly. We're in small area so I feed all year round.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Oh yes, don't pay $3-400. for a cream separator, go to ebay, under $100. worth every penny!


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

Actually, Nubians can be seasonal breeders too. My yearling doe, Maggie, is still cycling. Mine usually seem like they stay in season longer than most other standards. 

As to Nubians being more vocal: their voices sound different than most goats. I can pick a Nubian voice out if chorus of any other goat bleat. But mine are certainly not more noisey than my alpines. My boers used to scream like they were dying right around feeding time and they have a similar lilt to their voices like the Nubians. But my girls stay quite unless something is wrong. I think some of it has to do with genetics. My does came from someone living in the city, noisey animals got culled. And they don't just breed Nubians. There are quite Nubians and loud nigis. And don't let the little size fool you, a nigi kid can just about bust an eardrum! Lol. Come to a spring show and see who is making the most noise.  many of the breeders who once pointed a finger at the Nubians now say its the nigis hands down. It's a running joke at shows down here.

If I could describe a typical Nubian mentality: they are lovers. They stay babyish all their lives. My Nubians are the ones that would follow me to the ends of the earth and back because I'm mom. Not because I'm the bringer of treats. They just need to be around me, and if I've spent a lot of time in the pen with them, they very obviously get upset when I leave and watch with mournful eyes. Lol I feel like they get more attached than other breeds. I love this.

We obviously each love our breed. And we are each passionate and adamant about their value. This forum has lots and lots of nigi breeders. But it's hard to give you anything but the facts of quantity of milk and things of that nature. Because the truth is, individual animals will be night and day within the breed. I personally feel like you can make either breed work for you, and when it really comes down to it, I don't feel like their is any one dairy breed that's better than others. Thanks to many dedicated breeders all are quality animals. It comes down to what you love and what clicks with you. I still stand by one of each  best of both worlds.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

Because hay is so expensive where you live, you might look into growing your own fodder. There is a fodder group on facebook that I joined and I am learning a lot. I have watched a few youtube vidoe's too. I am getting stuff to try growing my own fodder as hay is running $15 a bale here and I have to drive an hour from home to get decent hay. With the Texas drought going on year 5 and winter--there just isn't much to eat here for them. From what I read you can save a lot of money and provide some really good food for your goats.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

RedGate said:


> Actually, Nubians can be seasonal breeders too. My yearling doe, Maggie, is still cycling. Mine usually seem like they stay in season longer than most other standards.
> 
> As to Nubians being more vocal: their voices sound different than most goats. I can pick a Nubian voice out if chorus of any other goat bleat. But mine are certainly not more noisey than my alpines. My boers used to scream like they were dying right around feeding time and they have a similar lilt to their voices like the Nubians. But my girls stay quite unless something is wrong. I think some of it has to do with genetics. My does came from someone living in the city, noisey animals got culled. And they don't just breed Nubians. *There are quite Nubians and loud nigis. And don't let the little size fool you, a nigi kid can just about bust an eardrum! Lol. * Come to a spring show and see who is making the most noise.  many of the breeders who once pointed a finger at the Nubians now say its the nigis hands down. It's a running joke at shows down here.
> 
> ...


Yes, the Nigerians can be vocal too :laugh: I'm glad mine aren't -- unless I'm late for dinner 

We all are very passionate about our breeds and of course we want everyone to think they are AMAZING and the BEST BREED EVER :laugh: But there really is no best breed. As you said, you can make either breed work for you. It's just nice to know the pros and cons so you can find the breed that is a perfect fit for your situation :thumb:


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## quakingheart (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Fairlea goats are great producers.


Oh now that I looked at their website I want some 
But since there's no chance of me getting one here in California I'm gonna get some mini nubians.

I bought Nigies before I knew what good milking bloodlines meant...but I still love my girls.

I agree with everybody above who mentioned good bloodlines!


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

about their noise- I so prefer the nigerians over the fog horns of the nubians! LOL We have all nigerians except for one nubian that I am experimenting with to see if I like. I think I will love the increase of milk but the nigerians are so much easier to handle. The nubians are more deer like in movement.


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## FlyingFeetsFarm (Nov 28, 2012)

I have had nubians, alpines, lamanchas, Boer goats, you name it I've probably had it. The breed I have settled on is Nigerians, I love the breeds personality and how much they produce for thier size. Like people have said nubians are LOUD, and I have found that they aren't very hardy, (I still love nubians despite this). Also Nigerians eat a lot less than standard dairy goats that IMO eat like horses. 

I also think Nigerian dwarf milk is delicious! Just like any goat having a good pedigree on a nigerian can affect their milk production.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I raise Nigerians as well as "Pygerians"....I've milked both and will always milk.....When I started my little hobby almost 14 years ago with pygmy and pygmy/nigerian crosses it was because I'd already had the experience of larger breeds as my mom always had Nubians,Alpine and Saanens....I don't recall any being boisterously vocal and the amounts of milk were abundant but I also knew just how it felt to need to get an unwilling large goat to do what you wanted...with the little breeds, if stubborn I can easily move them.
As far as production...genetics play a big role BUT I have seen many breeders who sell kids based on who their great-great grandparents are and have no recent proof of what those kids potential is, wether they show or not, do DHI Milk testing or not...it's the dam of those kids who will show you proof of production and if the breeder is dedicated to keeping the breed standards as well as dedicated to milking and keeping record of production, regardless of "well known" genetics, the goat you choose will be a productive one. Those kids who have a sire that has a dam who has wonderful dairy qualities sweetens the potential too....So, not only should you look at mama, but also the buck and his mother
I currently have 4 nigerian does and 2 bucks....genetics look great on pedigree's but some are not as well known, and others are, what I have suits me and my does are very productive milkers and average around 2 quarts each per day, I feed to keep them healthy and because thay are smaller it doesn't mean they can thrive and produce on lesser quality feedstuff. Depending on genetics, goats can be very hardy and minimal amounts of concentrated feeds can be used as long as they have a top quality hay and loose mineral.


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

I have two Nigerian does and I LOVE them. However, two may not be enough depending on your family size and milk needs. I haven't actually seen my girls in peak yet. They were in milk when I got them in July and I believe had both kidded in April. One of them was in the process of being dried off when I go them. The other was a first freshener. Even so, I was getting 2c/day per doe through late Oct. This was with milking twice/day. Now, my larger doe (who was the one being dried off previously) is only milking about a cup a day and I've switched her to once/day milking rather than bothering with 1/2c twice a day. My smaller doe (knee high at the head) is still milking right around 2c/day as a first freshener. 

I am excited that I have a blue-eyed buck here and HOPEFULLY will have kids in May and finally see my girls in full production - especially my lil girl. 

In my house, there's just me and two teen girls. I am currently the only one drinking it and it's the perfect amount for me (I make a lot of lattes, which are AMAZING with goat milk). The girls still prefer cows milk, but when we're in full swing, they're gonna have to tolerate goat milk.  

Personally, I LOVE the creamy thickness of ND milk. But I was always a whole milk drinker anyway... can't stand 2%. I was a bit concerned at first that I'd put on weight drinking it all the time... but the opposite seems to be happening. I think my body processes it better than cows milk, and I actually saw my lil "muffintop" disappear after several months of drinking goat milk exclusively.

I really didn't have a choice in the matter anyway... I dont have room for full size goats. I'm also a very small person and even my larger ND can yank me around a bit. So yeah... I love my lil gals.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

LilBleatsFarm said:


> Could you get 1 of each? How will you breed them? Maybe a mini nubian?
> 
> Nubian breeders speak up here for me but are they a vocal goat compared to others?
> 
> ...


Wow, wow wow! Lots of good info on here thank you so much everyone! I have a few breeders I'm speaking to right now who's does are producing 1 1/2-2 quarts per day for their nigerians. The Nubian breeder's does are usually a gallon or a little more. If nubians are extremely vocal as some have said that may be a little bit of a problem since our neighbors are so close. Also my sons are 5 and 7 and would like them to be able to handle the goats safely.

LilBleats, We have lots of experience with livestock (mostly horses and cattle) My hubby is a certified farrier and carpenter so I've got the hooves and milking stand covered  I think I'm getting a stand for my birthday lmao! My equine vet is also a "goat expert" she has shown and owned them since she was a child and will be my right hand man. I am a stay at home mom so shouldn't have a problem milking, and attending the kiddings. I am so looking forward to that! I love being there for a foaling and I'm sure the goats will be equally as exciting (and cute) I have cleaned out the library for books on dairy goats for the last several months! Trying to make sure I know what I'm getting into as well as advice from all of you guys. Thank you all so much for being so helpful.

Can you keep two different breeds of goats together when they are so different in size? I'm almost thinking I should get one of each and see which breed fits our family better but since I can only have two (for now haha) I'm afraid there would be an issue on the nubian being so much larger. Any thoughts on this? Also, I've seen people who make butter etc w/o the use of a cream seperater, do you get more cream if you invest in one? onder:


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Since you raise Nubians, how many lbs of roughage and grain do you have to feed the does when they are lactating? We have no forage out here and must purchase all of our own alfalfa/bermuda in bales...at 20.00 a bale  So I'm wondering if they are going to be very expensive to feed?


Wow 20 a bale, are you talking at the feed store- because at the feed store we'd pay $15 bale (they are about 60# bales). Where as when I buy a ton (I pay 180) but the going rate is about 200-225 a ton here for alfalfa. Look into buying a ton in your area to get a better price while you are doing the math end. Of course no matter what breed you'll have free choice minerals- which aren't expensive and last some time. Then there is what ever grain or dairy pellets you buy. 
Fencing, which is only an initial cost. full size goats seem to be able to handle the 4' field fence (which has bigger holes- 4x4 roughly) - here a 330' roll is $200. With the ND you need the smaller fencing if you're going to have young ones/kids- the 4' horse non climb with 2x4" holes- again here 100' roll is $200. But, as I mentioned that is a initial cost and won't affect your monthly. We're in small area so I feed all year round.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm talking feed store prices. We don't have anyone here (that I know of )that we can buy from direct. We feed our horses alfalfa/bermuda pellets and that cuts the costs and waste. It's about 20.00 for a 100lb bale here. and 17.00 for the pellets that last each horse about 5 days. Although I think the pellets would be too large for the goats to chew comfortably.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the feed store is buying from somewhere. Try CL and internet searches for hay farmers or farms that bring in tractor trailer loads and you can buy off their farm.


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## cherioneal (Jan 3, 2013)

When milking my Nigerian after she rejected her babe I got about a quart a day. Hope that is helpful. 

Sent from my iPhone using GoatSpot


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Yes, I'm talking feed store prices. We don't have anyone here (that I know of )that we can buy from direct. We feed our horses alfalfa/bermuda pellets and that cuts the costs and waste. It's about 20.00 for a 100lb bale here. and 17.00 for the pellets that last each horse about 5 days. Although I think the pellets would be too large for the goats to chew comfortably.[/QUOTE]
I can't remember are you in southern or northern AZ? Look up around Prescott if you're south. If you're north look around Williams. You can also check with one of the horse facilities and see where they're getting hay. If you have to drive a distance maybe you can take a trailer and buy 2 tons at a time, or go in with someone and share the gas expense.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Yes, I'm talking feed store prices. We don't have anyone here (that I know of )that we can buy from direct. We feed our horses alfalfa/bermuda pellets and that cuts the costs and waste. It's about 20.00 for a 100lb bale here. and 17.00 for the pellets that last each horse about 5 days. Although I think the pellets would be too large for the goats to chew comfortably.


I can't remember are you in southern or northern AZ? Look up around Prescott if you're south. If you're north look around Williams. You can also check with one of the horse facilities and see where they're getting hay. If you have to drive a distance maybe you can take a trailer and buy 2 tons at a time, or go in with someone and share the gas expense.[/QUOTE]

Yup, we're in southern AZ, Prescott is about 4-5 hours from us which stinks. I know someone around here who sells round bales of California bermuda but everything I've read says alfalfa is the best for dairy production right?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Put another post saying looking for hay in AZ. We have several new people from AZ and they may be able to point you in the right direction.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Good idea ClearWater thanks! I will do that.

Ok, I just spoke to the breeder of the Nigerians this morning and she says the doe we are waiting on to kid she gives about 3/4 quart per day while the kids are on her. Is this about right for a doe that is also nursing? 

She said if this doe doesn't produce any doelings or only one she also has Mini Manchas and 2 of them are due in Feb. She says the older Doe produces almost 3 quarts per day and this is the younger one's FF. I don't know much about mini Manchas but my friend had full sized ones when we were kids she used to show them and they were very personable goats. Any input on them?

Note-all of her goats are registered with the ADGA and ear numbered. I will get to pick the registered names of any doelings I pick. All opinions would be appreciated. Edited to add-the Mini Manchas are MDGA registered not ADGA...my bad!


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

I think the price of alfalfa (more so than other hays) really varies depending on area. Here in NW WA... it apparently doesn't grow local. We get ours trucked in from Eastern WA (which might as well be another state as far as the cost of shipping goes). So feed stores are pretty much our only option and it ranges from $17-23/bale depending on quality. I did manage to get lucky and find a local person who KNOWS someone on the "other side of the mountains" and gets a tractor-trailer full of alfalfa brought over to sell in small quantities at $15/bale. Best part is they're like a mile from my house! So I really hope they keep doing it. Unfortunately, I don't have room to buy a ton at a time or I would. If I had the room, I'd buy it by the ton (which comes out to around $6/bale at $200/ton, 60lb bales), then sell to other goat folks for a few bucks less than the feed stores (like $15/bale or even a lil less) and wind up having my own hay paid for!


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Jen, I hear you on the room. I have pallets for my base and bring a ton at a time I cover it with plastic sheeting then a tarp (it seems the tarp would sweat with out the plastic sheeting). I don't have a covered area so that is how we have to do it. I still loose some off the bottom bales but not to much.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

We have the same problem with the room only having 1 acre. I can't store more than 15-20 bales at a time and have to use a tarp to keep them dry also. This is a big reason we buy the pellets because we can store a lot more in less space and none of it falls apart and gets blown away. I wonder if I got the smaller pellets if the goats would eat them?


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm in AZ down about an hour out of West Phoenix. We get Alfalfa by the ton for $13.50 for an A+ grade 105lb a bale when you pay cash and $14 with a card from G-Farms in Waddel, AZ. I have four standard goats. One buck and three currently dry pregnant does. I go through a bale and a quarter a week feeding a flake a piece per day. My goats are not fat by far in fact they are slightly thin on this ration but they are healthy. I feed a flake and a half per goat per day plus grain when they are milking.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

You can feed the large square pellets of you break them up with a hammer. I used to do that.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

xymenah said:


> I'm in AZ down about an hour out of West Phoenix. We get Alfalfa by the ton for $13.50 for an A+ grade 105lb a bale when you pay cash and $14 with a card from G-Farms in Waddel, AZ. I have four standard goats. One buck and three currently dry pregnant does. I go through a bale and a quarter a week feeding a flake a piece per day. My goats are not fat by far in fact they are slightly thin on this ration but they are healthy. I feed a flake and a half per goat per day plus grain when they are milking.


Thank you for that info! That puts it in to perspective for me  I think I will end up going with the Nigerians or another miniature breed so my feed costs stay down. We're selling a couple horses to make more room for goats and pigs and don't want to be replacing a horse with 2 goats lol. That's a great deal on hay! I wish I could find something like that out here in Vail!


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

xymenah said:


> You can feed the large square pellets of you break them up with a hammer. I used to do that.


Also good to know! We soak our horse's pellets for 30 mins before feeding which softens them up quite a bit. I bet the same would work for the alfalfa cubes for the goats. I hadn't thought of that.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I feed the alfalfa pellets when does are in milk if alfalfa isnt available. 

no they dont have ot be on alfalfa to produce milk - its can help though.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> I feed the alfalfa pellets when does are in milk if alfalfa isnt available.
> 
> no they dont have to be on alfalfa to produce milk - its can help though.


I know in my area of AZ the grass hay is just as much if not more than alfalfa most of the time. Since we mostly grow alfalfa and many farms can get up to seven to ten cuttings on a field.

Esther I don't know if an hour is too far to go for hay but I found some contact info for some farms. Maybe their price is cheaper and you can save some money for both the goats and the horses.

*Willcox*

Colbert Farms
8023 S Kansas Settlement Rd
(520) 507-3187

*Eloy*

PremiumHay
(520) 709-4470 
www.premiumhay.com
Their website gives the info for delivery. I think it was $1.87 per mile their website is glitching on me.

Even if they are too far maybe they know of someone in your area.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

xymenah said:


> I know in my area of AZ the grass hay is just as much if not more than alfalfa most of the time. Since we mostly grow alfalfa and many farms can get up to seven to ten cuttings on a field.
> 
> Esther I don't know if an hour is too far to go for hay but I found some contact info for some farms. Maybe their price is cheaper and you can save some money for both the goats and the horses.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for that! Wilcox isn't too far from us if we can get a good enough deal on the hay. Yes, berm is more expensive out here than alfalfa too. We feed a flake of bermuda for the horses everyday just for the roughage. We used to feed it exclusively with supplements to keep their weight up but it just got too pricey. We don't like feeding alfalfa to horses, it's not good for them since it's designed for a cows digestive system but it does cut down the amount you have to feed so we switched to 50/50 pellets. I appreciate you looking into that for me!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Late coming to this thread and i havent read them all ( sorry )
but why not get two of each breed ? You just cant have enough 
goats IMO :wink:


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Trickyroo said:


> Late coming to this thread and i havent read them all ( sorry )
> but why not get two of each breed ? You just cant have enough
> goats IMO :wink:


Lol I wish I could! Hubby says just 2...for now!


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Just wanted to update that we are going to visit a breeder with lots of Nubians next weekend. Milk production is our #1 priority and want to make sure we make the right decision as I said before. I can't wait to see all the babies lol! Why is choosing a goat breed so hard?!  Question also for all you who milk, how do you find the time to milk 2x daily? Or do you just milk once? With my kids, horses, housework, and all the extras I don't know how I will milk 2x a day everyday. What is everyone's schedule like?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

My mom and I are going to go with once a day once we have enough goats to meet our milk supply. It's one last thing we have to do and be home for


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> My mom and I are going to go with once a day once we have enough goats to meet our milk supply. It's one last thing we have to do and be home for


That sounds like a good excuse to get more goats! I "need" more hunny, so I only have to milk once a day


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Esther88 said:


> That sounds like a good excuse to get more goats! I "need" more hunny, so I only have to milk once a day


Exactly :thumb:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Once you get the hang of it milking doesn't take much time at all


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> Once you get the hang of it milking doesn't take much time at all


Agreed I can milk a half gallon in two minuets.


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## Marty1876 (Jan 12, 2013)

I have Niegerian dwarfs. Honestly, some are great milkers, but only the ones bred for it. Others are bred to be cute pets. For example, one of my does, Ava, is the cutest doe ever. This year, as a third freshoner, she had quadruplets. She nursed 3 ok, and one was given extra bottles. I began milkin her at 8 weeks. She only produces about 1 3/4 c. (3 1/2 cups a day) of milk each milking now. (down from the 3 qts she had to produce for her kids) She dried up very fast, and always does. At month four, I'm getting about 2 1/4 cups a day now, but I don't expect her to be in milk much longer really. 

Buttercup, a doe from heavy milk lines, star milkers close in her pedigree, and a dam who produces 1.5 QT a milking at 6 monthes fresh, is over a qt each milking immediatly as a first freshoner.

Seriously, if you want milk quantity, check the pedigree, check (and see) the doe milked out, find out quantities produced by dam, and the two grand dams if you can. And also, ask about longevity. Some does will give you 3 qts a milking for 3 monthes, and give you 1 qt a day by 4 months. Others will still be nailiing it with 1.5 qts per milking at month 9.

Remember, some of the very best producers, top 10 of last three years, produced 7 lbs a day, thats 3 and 1/2 qts, 2 cups under a gallon. Almost no nigerians can give you more than a gallon a day. 

To reasonably be in milk, cheese, butter, and yogurt for a family of 5-6, get 3 does, and breed one every 4 monthes for continuous ample milk production. If your doe is a hard breeder, start early, and be prepared to be flexabe. I myself make cheese, and we have a family of four. I'm moving up to 4 does, and I keep a the best buck I can afford on site, so when its time to breed, doe can go be with the boy every night, and I don't miss that golden moment, as I really really want steady milk.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Esther88 said:


> Just wanted to update that we are going to visit a breeder with lots of Nubians next weekend. Milk production is our #1 priority and want to make sure we make the right decision as I said before. I can't wait to see all the babies lol! Why is choosing a goat breed so hard?!  Question also for all you who milk, how do you find the time to milk 2x daily? Or do you just milk once? With my kids, horses, housework, and all the extras I don't know how I will milk 2x a day everyday. What is everyone's schedule like?


When milking (2 to 4 does usually, possibly 5 this year) I get up at 3:30am or 4am, have a cup of coffee, eat a light breakfast, prepare my milking equipment, head out to the barn at 5am, milk/do other chores until 6am, feed dogs, shower, check email, have another cup of coffee until 7am, get dressed and do my hair and leave for work at 7:30/7:45am.... (unless it is my one early day a month, and then I have to get up at like 2:30am, ugh).

I get home from work around 4pm, get everything ready for milking, in summer do any quick weeding of the garden/start the watering, etc, start chores/milking at 5pm. Husband gets home at about 5:30pm, I finish chores/milking around 6pm. Then I start household chores, whine a little that I never get enough help now that we are both working instead of me being a stay at home wife/mom until I occasionally get a little help, around 7pm I collapse on the couch with my Kindle and by 7:30pm I am passed out cold with my Kindle on my face. Sometimes I remember to eat dinner, sometimes I don't.

Then on the weekends I run myself ragged trying to catch up on all the stuff I needed to do all week but didn;t manage to get done because I am only one person and there are not enough hours in the day. lol. It was MUCH easier when I was a stay at home mom with one teen in school all day, compared to no kids living at home but working at a job outside the home all week. If I had small children at home I'm not sure i could do it unless I had a good support system *cough*their dad to take care of them while I milked*cough*, but then again I was never very good at juggling caring for small kids and anything else at all.


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## Esther88 (Nov 11, 2012)

WarPony said:


> When milking (2 to 4 does usually, possibly 5 this year) I get up at 3:30am or 4am, have a cup of coffee, eat a light breakfast, prepare my milking equipment, head out to the barn at 5am, milk/do other chores until 6am, feed dogs, shower, check email, have another cup of coffee until 7am, get dressed and do my hair and leave for work at 7:30/7:45am.... (unless it is my one early day a month, and then I have to get up at like 2:30am, ugh).
> 
> I get home from work around 4pm, get everything ready for milking, in summer do any quick weeding of the garden/start the watering, etc, start chores/milking at 5pm. Husband gets home at about 5:30pm, I finish chores/milking around 6pm. Then I start household chores, whine a little that I never get enough help now that we are both working instead of me being a stay at home wife/mom until I occasionally get a little help, around 7pm I collapse on the couch with my Kindle and by 7:30pm I am passed out cold with my Kindle on my face. Sometimes I remember to eat dinner, sometimes I don't.
> 
> Then on the weekends I run myself ragged trying to catch up on all the stuff I needed to do all week but didn;t manage to get done because I am only one person and there are not enough hours in the day. lol. It was MUCH easier when I was a stay at home mom with one teen in school all day, compared to no kids living at home but working at a job outside the home all week. If I had small children at home I'm not sure i could do it unless I had a good support system *cough*their dad to take care of them while I milked*cough*, but then again I was never very good at juggling caring for small kids and anything else at all.


Lol WOW! Your life makes mine seem so much more relaxed! Thankfully I am a stay at home mom and my youngest son will be in Kinder next year so I should have enough time to fit milking into my schedule. I am NOT a morning person haha! 6:30 is hard for me. I don't drink coffee either so my morning pick me up is usually a Dr.Pepper That's amazing that you are making that work, puts my schedule in perspective! If you can still find time to milk so can I!


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Esther88 said:


> Lol WOW! Your life makes mine seem so much more relaxed! Thankfully I am a stay at home mom and my youngest son will be in Kinder next year so I should have enough time to fit milking into my schedule. I am NOT a morning person haha! 6:30 is hard for me. I don't drink coffee either so my morning pick me up is usually a Dr.Pepper That's amazing that you are making that work, puts my schedule in perspective! If you can still find time to milk so can I!


Honestly milking is my favourite part of the day. I sit on my milking stool and enjoy the relatively quiet peacful atmosphere and the gentle presence of the does. Right now my girls are all dry and I will be honest that it is kind of nice not milking in the cold winter weather... but I miss my "soul" time. It's like I don't really have anything to recharge me the way my twice daily milking time does. It is almost always more of a pleasure than a chore.


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## aceofspades (Dec 26, 2012)

Easy answer 
MINI NUBIAN 

It's a nigerian nubian cross. 

I have Nigerians, Nubians and the cross aka mini nubian 
mini nubian is the best of both. 
They have the soft look big eyes and ears of a nubian but the sturdy hardy build and easy kidding of the nigerian they are smaller than a nubian but bigger than a nigerian mine are out of good milking lines and produce a little over a 1/2 gallon. 
Not as much as my full Nubians but more than the Nigerians.


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## aceofspades (Dec 26, 2012)

Keep in mind and milk goat breed that has been made a mini is simply a nigerian cross large breed. 
They can be 3rd 4th generation mini but its still a nigerian cross. 
Like I said in my the first post we have nubians and nigerians but the cross is our favorite. 
They all pasture and get along fine together regardless of size.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I wasn't always up early to milk. You don't have to but you will get a better consistent yield if you milk say at 9 am then milk at 9pm. Again you don't have to but a schedule will help with milk production.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

aceofspades said:


> Easy answer
> MINI NUBIAN
> 
> It's a nigerian nubian cross.
> ...


My 3rd generation mini nubian doe was giving me 7.5 pounds a day on two milkings at peak. As much or more than my Alpine/boer 2nd freshener and about the same as my FF Togg does.


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## dixiegirl3179 (Jan 20, 2010)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Nigerians can be SUPER producers, you just have to buy from the right bloodlines. Fairlea goats are great producers. They are very hardy sweet and easy to handle. I love them to bits  Their milk is sweet and rich, but so is Nubian milk. I personally love how sweet and rich the milk is


Glad to hear that! My buck's maternal grandmother is Fairlea Flower Power. Hopefully he's got enough of those genetics to pass on to his daughters lol.


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