# SUPER-low budget, would like to make my own saddles,...



## ohiogoatgirl

I am only 17 and jobs are all but extinct in my small town. I would like to make my own saddles, panniers, etc. I can sew- I have a machine  -and I am a quick learner. Is there a site about making your own, etc.? I haven't had pack goats before.


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## sweetgoatmama

Saddles are a lot trickier to make than they look like. By the time you've made a decent one you'll have more into it than if you had just bought a kit from Northwest Packgoat SUpply. Their inexpensive kits are under $50. I know that can sound like a lot but it's worth the health of your goat to come up with it.

THe pannier is easy to make though. Just think about a bag to hang off the sawbucks of the saddle. People even use tote bags for small panniers and you could put a zipper in the top of one to close it. All it takes is some imagination.

You could also post on the packgoat list that you are looking for used saddles, and maybe come up with something you could afford.


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## tiger408

I have a pack saddle pattern that I am willing to share that I got at Rendy last year. I was going to try and make my own saddles but don't have the proper woodworking tools or skills for all the angles needed for the sideboards and crossbucks.

I did like Sweetgoatmama suggested and ordered a kit saddle from Northwest Packgoats. It was affordable, all the technical stuff was already done, measured etc all I had to do was the finish sanding and staining. For panniers... since we mostly do day hikes and short camping trips.... we use the soft-sided coolers. I picked up a pair of them from the dollar store for under $20. They are nice sized (I got the 30 can capacity ones), water proof and light-weight. And so far hold up to quite a bit of abuse.

You can see a pic of the finished saddle kit and my set up in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=119

I completely understand having to work with a small budget and am very much a DIY type person so if you would still like a copy of the pattern... pm me.


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## stinky

I have pondered the idea of trying to make some using saddlebacks designed for horses. We'll see how that idea progresses.

I made a training pack, and it is pretty easy. You just make a bag, and put a strap on it, w/a plastic snap. You use a 2" push in buckle, like on a fanny-pack. 

If I was going to make one, make a frame, from Aluminum, add the wood, and padding and you'll need to find the packs. 

I have plenty of steel, angle iron, which I can weld (I'm not set-up to weld AL), which would be a bit heavier, but more durable and possibly easier to fix. So, if I was building one, it would be from metal. Like the one that Owyhee packgoats sells. Which, btw is a good set-up.


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## sweetgoatmama

The Owyhee saddles fit one particular size of goat and can be very uncomfortable for other goats.

As a saddle maker of many years and having been involved with the prototypes of some of the NW saddles and being familiar with all the saddle makers saddles, I have to advise against the flat aluminum plate type of saddle. It cuts off the blood supply to the skin and can cause permanent scarring.

If you are lucky enough to have a goat that fits the saddle, it will work, but they are very unforgiving.

I have two or three of them and use them for young goats where weight is not an issue.


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## cryptobrian

Carolyn,

Can you expand on the "flat" aluminum saddle? Our 4-H club inherited several different types of saddles, including one of these. But the wodden saddles are also "flat" ... so are you reffering to the lack of curve along the bottom edge?

I'll need to keep an eye on the use of this one.

Thanks,

Brian


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## sweetgoatmama

There are also some completely flat wood saddles. Anything that is flat has the potential to cut off the blood supply when the load is placed on top and pushes down on the saddle, creating an edge that digs into the goats.

If the goat is a shape that conforms to the saddle this edge is fairly benign but if the goat is wide at all it constricts right there.

A well made saddle is beveled out along the edges of the flat surface so that it spreads the presure over a larger area.


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## 4-Hgoats

tiger408- I have been reading this forum page and I was wondering if you could send me the saddle pattern. I am new too and I really don't want to have to buy a kit or a pre made saddle. I don't need this saddle yet because I will have kids at first but in a couple of years I could use a saddle. Umm, I guess i should train my goats with soft packs when they hit a year old right? then when they can carry ,what?, 40% of their weight you use a buck and panniers? Do you happen to have a soft pack with straps pattern also? -Thanks


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## sanhestar

@4-Hgoats:

you don't need to train goats to saddles like horses. When raised with lots of human attention they accept a saddle and empty pack within minutes.

Also, 40% of body weight is WAY too much. Rule of thumb is about 25-30% for a GROWN goat (they grow until age 3-4 years). Yearlings should carry only very light loads, not to their full capacity because there's a real risk of damaging their spine and growth plates in the bones.

Please, think about a well fitted saddle, too. The low budget kits from Northwest are well made and you won't find a better saddle for that money. If you want to save money, make your own panniers but don't go cheap on the saddle. You can also save money by skipping saddling a one year old goat with a soft pack that will fit them only for a few months and that you then have to discard. Wait until they are big enough for a permanent saddle - money not spent is money saved.

I don't know what the others her in this forum think but from what I understand about 4-H it's also about teaching young people respectfull and proper handling of animals. Please, be a good example, learn your basics and don't rush into things.


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## Herb

4-Hgoats,

Lots of good advice. You need a quality saddle and your goats are a long ways from wearing it. My goats typically do not see a saddle until 2.5 years, then a minimal load, if any. 

Do you have some type of guide that offers some direction in this 4-H project?? Some of the timelines you have shared seem short of reality. Just can't speed up the time it takes for a goat to mature.


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## 4-Hgoats

I do not have an exact giude of how this project should be taken, but i do have a goat resource book that explains how to train a goat for pack, and it explains the purpose of them. But it has no measurements for the saddles if you make your own (which is what they suggest) and it lacks a description of what ages are appropriate to the weight put on a goat. 4-H wants you to figure that out on your own. That's part of the project, but i do get a fair book each year stating the show dates and the rules for the showing, it says: 20-30% of body weight is a soft pack, 30-40% is a cross buck with panniers. there also is levels which your goat moves up in every year. level 1 is no pack(this is what i'm in) 2 is empty pack 3 is full pack 4 is string of goats. and you can add whatever amount of weight your goat can hold as long as it meets the pack weight percentages above. So my goats will be 1 and a half years old when they have an empy pack on them. we cannot repeat levels so whwn my goats are 2.5 they are supposed to be in a full pack already. So i guess i will just have the goats carry a cross buck or soft pack with 20% of they're body weight then. Does this sound ok? These are the requirements I am reading out of the fair book, so if they don't match yours then i'm not sure what to do and say.


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## Bob Jones

I have one of the saddle kits from Northwestern. I bought a 1" thick horse saddle pad and cut it in half to give me two of them. And I must confess that with that much padding I have not finished sanding the saddle and use it as is.

I have also made a harness so Diego can pull a sled. The straps and hardware nearly cost me as much as the saddle. I consider the saddle a very good deal and would only try to save on the cost by building them myself if I needed twenty of them and could start a production line.


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## sanhestar

@4-Hgoats: who wrote that book/manual? I sure hope that this kind of rigid regime that pays no attention to indiviual goat development was not written by people from the packgoat community.

From what you lay out about it, it practically encourages wasting money (for having to put a soft pack or custom fitted saddle on a 1 year old goat when this is not necessary and then buying another saddlte for the grown goat) and/or pushing the goats at a too fast pace for .... what reason?


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## Rex

4-Hgoats said:


> That's part of the project, but i do get a fair book each year stating the show dates and the rules for the showing, it says: 20-30% of body weight is a soft pack, 30-40% is a cross buck with panniers. there also is levels which your goat moves up in every year. level 1 is no pack(this is what i'm in) 2 is empty pack 3 is full pack 4 is string of goats. and you can add whatever amount of weight your goat can hold as long as it meets the pack weight percentages above.


I agree with Sanhestar. The numbers in your manual are wrong. Here are the normal recommendations. (Some people vary slightly but this should be safe enough for you to use as a guide.) Goats under one should carry very minimal weight. Two year olds 10 -15% max and no full loads until 3 1/2 to 4 years old. A Full load being 25% of their weight. Seasoned packers in good shape can do 30% but its crazy to have that kind of weight on them for an obstacle course at the fair. Anyone recommending 40% loads for a fair event is sadly misinformed about packgoat capabilities. Add that to home made saddles without proper angles or insufficient strapping or padding and you are just asking to get a goat injured. I'm not sure who wrote the packgoat portion of the manual but they could use a little help. Let your adviser know their is a *big* problem with the manual and have them call one of us. We'd be glad to help get it straightened out. They can call toll free: 888-722-5462

If I'm not mistaken there should be a couple of packgoat 4-H project manuals floating around with people on this forum that you might be able to use in place of yours.


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## 4-Hgoats

Yes, i suppose if you guys(who are very experienced goat packers) say that it is wrong then it is probably wrong. But the thing i do not hear about at fair is of any goat getting hurt, and i have talked to my friend who shows goats and she has had no problems wit her goats at the show, so what i'm am assuming is that the book was just published so that the kids have a guide but i bet the judges give slack and actually know what should be put on a goat (i'm hoping, and if they don't then i simply will tell them theyre wrong and that too much weight will hurt my goat, and then they'll pay for the vet bill. But out of so many years of pack goat showing, i would think they would realize how much a goat is able to handle. I will write to this author and tell them about their stupid information though. Also maybe when they say 40% of weight they mean for a big, big big goat. Rex- if i am right about you having the buisness Northwest Pack goats, then i had no idea about that. I was on the website yesterday and i was looking a saddles and pads. They look very nice and for a reasonable price too. I might be interested in a couple of years when i will need them. My dad does ussually make wood things, but he has no time and what iv'e been told here it is safer to buy from someone who knows what they are exactly doing. Though i might have problems convincing him of buying the saddles pads  i will probably end up having to pay for it myself, but that's fine. Also i have a question about the lead ropes? Are they what most people use as leads for goats, or can I use a dog leash?


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## Rex

Different people use different things. Many people use dog leashes and if you are just doing 4-H that would be good enough. When I am out on the trail and tying goats its nice to have a longer lead.


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## 4-Hgoats

ok, also i know this question should be in the raising kids section, but i was wondering what kind of bottles most people use for feeding baby goats. Can a baby bottle be used or does not hold enough milk? I have found a cheap nipple on a pack goat site that works with pop bottles, does that sound like a good bottle setup? Also ( i realized you are northwest pack goats!, did not see your website below) your plain saddle pads are a little different from other saddle pads i saw, some people use plain thick pads that fit under the saddle, whereas yours fit over the saddle. Are yours made that way for a specific reason that is better for the goat? Thanks


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## Herb

4-Hgoats,

You're seeing the "pocket pad." Just a pocket keeping the pad from moving, full padding between the goat and saddle. 

What's your favorite soda or water??? Start saving the bottles, that's all you'll need. I like the vented nipples that are threaded to fit the bottles(yellow cap with red nipple), the goats like them too.

If part of your project ends up improving the "guide" for further packgoats in your area, it's a success for you and everyone else that follows. You are on the right path and it will show. Keep asking the questions!!


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## Herb

There won't be a vet bill to pay for over loading a young goat. The damage is done, that's the point of not doing it in the first place. Purple ribbon from me if you know more than your judge!!


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## Nanno

There's a decent chance you may not actually damage your goat physically by overloading him for this one event. However, the psychological damage of overloading an animal can be far worse than any physical harm suffered. It can make your goat sulky, stubborn, and and unresponsive to your commands. He may very well learn to distrust you. A sprain or a pulled muscle will heal in time, but the cause of it can leave a permanent scar. Discouraging your goat will also teach him bad habits you may never be able to train out of him. An overloaded animal will often lay down and refuse to move until the burden is removed. He won't forget this trick to avoiding work, and the next thing you know, you have an incurably lazy goat on your hands!


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## sanhestar

also, the damage done to the spine by overloading won't show for years so when it occurs most people will not make the connection to the event years ago on that fair where they put so much - too much - load on their goat.


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## sanhestar

@4-Hgoats:

the packload is ALWAYS defined by size and weight (not overweight) of the animal that carries it. So, even a big, big goat could only carry 25% (maybe 30%) of its bodyweight. That would make the load bigger but not the percentage of bodyweight.

I have found no animal that can carry 40% - almost HALF - of its own bodyweight. And even if so, to achieve this you would have to do intensive training to build the muscles that would support carrying that weight. You need to do this anyway, even with 25%.

Maybe this person meant 40 lbs (!) that would be a reasonable load for a well trained (!), big goat.


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## 4-Hgoats

yeah, i have no idea what that person what thinking, but i do know that if i hadn't known that 40% was too much, i would have tried it! i am a newbie to goats and pack, so i would have done what the book says. So Big Thanks to everyone who put up with me and all my newbie questions, you guys respond very nicely. I'm sure i will have more questions though. Oh!, i found out who the publisher/writer of the book is - it's from the ohio university extension. Most of the info contributers are all people who own goats, but more than half are dairy. So maybe that explains the poor info. - Anyways, another question (of course, right?) if anyone has a chart for how much milk to feed baby goats that would be great. You know, the ones that say the age, how much milk and how many times a day to feed. I have asked people so many times hoe many times a day to feed goats, but it's easier to have a chart to look off of. I have found some charts before but they just don't seem to match, one has very little amounts, one for big goats have huge amounts, so i'm looking for one that will do good for the dairy (alpine) breeds, I don't think my goats will end up being huge so i don't want to over or under feed them. -Thanks again


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