# Rant...sort of...



## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

So, I wish I would have found this site before I decided to get goats...

It seems like everyone's goats on here are sick and dying.

I have had my goats for not even 3 weeks and one has a murmur and now they have diarrhea... and everything Im reading is basically saying they will either die or be very " unthrifty adults" if they survive.

What gives?! My dogs and cat don't get sick. My in laws have meat cows that are just in the back field and they throw them hay and water and basically just ignore them the rest of the time and they are healthy. 

Like what am I doing wrong?! Are goats just finicky? How do these things survive in the wild? I feel like I am failing them.:wallbang:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry you are feeling down and overwhelmed. Goats are hardy..._when they have appropriate conditions/nutrition for their area._ It is specific to each farm to know what they need and what parasites,worms and diseases they get. Finding out how to keep them healthy on your individual farm can sometimes be a challenge for sure! :hug:
As for all sick and dying goats on here...well, it does seem that way, but people tend to post more about sick goats vs well goats. So it appears to be a lot more are sick/dying than really are.
As for surviving in the wild, they are _domesticated_ goats not wild, so they would not survive well in the wild.
If your goats have scours then I would think either dietary or coccidia/wormload. What have you given them?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

They get hay, minerals, alfalfa pellets free choice. Once a week I leave baking soda out free choice for 24 hrs then pull it out. They get a quarter size amount of BOSS every day as a treat. I clip and bring them fresh black berry clippings. I also give them half a cup of corn oats and barley.

A corn stalk was given to them maybe 3 days ago. That's all I can think of that has been different. 

Today I bought them a trace mineral block. They took a few licks of that as soon as i put it down.

They are alert, and will come up to be like they are looking for a treat, but they dont finish the grain or blackberries like they usually do. and have loose stools...not water but very loose. They are 13 weeks old.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Have you dewormed them or treated for cocci?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Have you opened a new bag of pellets?


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I have not opened a new bag of pellets since I brought them home.

I have not dewormed them or treated for cocci prior to now. Almost 2 weeks ago (Sept 18th) I took them to the vet to get disbudded, one was disbudded... the other was not due to a severe heart murmur. They ran fecals per my request and gave CD&T shots. Fecals were clear of worms. She said that they were either just getting over or just getting cocci as there was a very small presents of the protozoans. She gave me a bottle of corrid... I started it yesterday when I noticed the loose stools. But 2 weeks seems long for the infection to show its presence


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can just have unthrifty goats with coccidia. Many times it never presents with diarrhea. So I'm not surprised at all.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I dont even know what it means...I just figured it meant it nice words useless...unbreedable...weak


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Goats are not as hardy as a lot of other animals. I totally understand your frustration. I know I've been there when I first started out and I'm sure most of us have gone through the tough learning curve. They're not easy to raise and take care of like a lot of other animals are. I have experience with dogs, cats, horses, bunnies, llamas, chickens, and pigs, but the goats are the hardest to take care of...by far...in my opinion. Mine rarely get sick or have any issues now, but I can remember when I first started raising them...I would have problems all the time and lots of times, I just felt like giving up. Hang in there and keep learning. Once you get the knowledge and experiences under your belt, things will be much easier. :hug:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

A goat doesn't have to stay unthrifty... It all depends on what you do for it. Yes, if coccidia is left uncared for for months or more, it will hurt the goat to point that it is stunted and unable to gain weight. Even those animals can sometimes be brought back to health though. 
No goat in the world is not ever exposed to cocci, it just isn't possible. So, we kill the cocci, support the goat, and they thrive again very soon.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Agreed....it will take time for the meds to work.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I am sorry you are feeling discouraged. 

People just tend to post when they have sick animals, so the picture you get here is skewed.

If the goats are new to you they may just be getting diarrhea from the stress making them more susceptible. That doesn't mean they will be un thrifty for life.

Who knows how many goats have or had heart murmurs as not a lot of goats get regular exams. I'd have it rechecked and if still present when she's older just not breed her. But the rest of them should be fine going forward.

You may find some of your goats are more parasite resistant or hardy than others. Breed for that. ( if you are breeding )

My goats have been easy. I left them with my in laws for a year who knew/ know nothing about goats. They were fine. 

I only deworm if needed.

My main issue is feet. My land is a soggy mess, so I have to help them there but otherwise they are easy. This is the first year I've added copper boluses. I really just have one out of the four that seems to need it.

They are hardy, but do have needs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I feel your pain and despair. 
We all have to start somewhere and you shouldn't beat yourself up so much for it. 
That is why you are here, to learn how to take care of them. A good first step.

When I started out, I didn't have TGS, I had to learn from trial and error, vets did not know how to care for goats so, I had to treat them myself. Sometimes it went well, while other times despite my efforts, I would lose some. Now I have very few losses, because of the learning process I endured and TGS combined. 

I am glad you found the goat spot. We can advise you as things come up. Cocci is horrible, it causes permanent damage to the gut lining causing the goat to stay stunted and unthrifty. 

Hope you get your goats in better shape soon.

Goats need loose salt and mineral with copper and selenium. A good cattle or goat mineral are good ones to have out free choice. But sheep if you have any cannot have copper. Do not get the block.

Bless you for taking care of them, and wanting to learn about them. They will have a better chance with you, hang in there.

Do you have any pics, that would help to see what they may need or lacking as well.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Thank you all for your encouragement. I feel a little less overwhelmed today after ordering medication and watching some more instruction videos etc. 

The girls are not too photogenic right now, they are super cute I promise. 

First is Blanche, second is Dorothy.


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

You have some beautiful girls. Did Blanche go to the store with you in that pic?

Honestly, mine have only gotten lose stool when they ate too much pasture in wet season. Their bodies got used to it, so it wasn't really a problem. 

I love this site as even if I'm not having any problems I read about what is going on with everyone else and it makes me more prepared. Right now I'm super nervous about our first kiddings. Nothing is wrong, I 'm just nervous. 

Hopefully everything will look up for you soon.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Blanche wad at the vet


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Geez , those girls are too cute ! LOVE the way Blanche is looking at you , lol..


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I also think that in many cases babies have a steeper learning curve for new goat owners. Their immature systems haven't had time to build up a resistance to much - and most kids will have cocci - that's why many breeders treat for cocci around 3 weeks of age as a preventative.

You seem to be a caring, interested goat mom - so hang in there! I remember being a 1st time mom to the 2 legged variety - that seemed overwhelming at times too - but oh so much joy!

I'm so happy I found TGS when I did - invaluable folks here!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They are looking really good considering. 

I love them, they are adorable.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

So, speaking of the cocci. I realized today that its only Blanche who has the diarrhea. Dorothy's are completely normal. The diarrhea started 3 days ago, does that seem like it would be more a dietary issue since dont both have it? Or maybe Dorothy just isn't throwing symptoms. They both aren't gobbling down grain like they usually do, but they do eat it. I'm wondering if Dorothy is just copying here sister as Blanche seems to be the alpha doe. The loose stools are not dark in color its more of a yellowy tan.

Blanche was on pain killers/ anti inflammatory after her disbudding on the 18th for about 4 days. Otherwise they eat the same thing. Maybe the corn stalk they were thrown the other day just was harder on ones stomach?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Both don't have to have a bad case at the same time. Parasites never hit everyone in the herd the same way. Goats don't all respond to parasites in the same way. Get fecals done on both girls to include coccidia. You don't have to have diarrhea to have a bad case of coccidia.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

How hard is it to run your own fecals? Is it worth getting a microscope? Ill send them to the vet this time but for future


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would put both girls on an outlined prevention plan. Coccidiosis can cause anemia and anemia can cause a heart murmur or worsen one. 
Right now, with seeing a well grown young goat that has no shortness of breathe or episodes of turning blue, there is a very good chance that this is a childhood murmur that is of no consequence. My own daughter (24) had one, a very loud one, in fact. 
You don't want anything to damage the healing and settling process through. Many murmurs in healthy children resolve themselves by the time the child is an adult unless Anemia, Strep infection or Scarlett Fever interfere.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I will def be doing the baycox as instructed as a preventative until they are 6 months... I was just wondering if I should do that first dose with a follow up 10 days later then every 3 weeks....or if it sounded like it might not be it so only do the every 3 weeks


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## Encgoatlady (Mar 20, 2015)

I have brought 6 baby goats home over the last 5 or 6 years and two of them had diarrhea. I had their poop tested and it came back fine. In both cases, it went away on its own and did not come back.

My goats seem to stay very healthy on a diet of hay, a little grain and shredded beet pulp and LOTS of browse. I figure that's what their bodies are designed for. I also put apple cider vineagar in their water and that makes them drink more of it. Seems to work.

Also, their appetites definitely seem to ebb and flow. Sometimes they do nothing but eat, and other times not so much. And sometimes the new bag of grain or pellets or beet pulp is not as appetizing as the last. They are always up for grazing and browsing, though. They seem to stay very healthy.


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

Good news everyone! It went away! Her poops are fine now and they are both eating normal


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So it was cocci  I saw an significant increase in my goats growth once I started using cocci prevention in them all. It makes a big difference!


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## GoatMama123 (Sep 9, 2015)

I haven't treated them yet...it came in the mail today


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The once every 3 weeks prevention is fine if they have no more diarrhea problems.


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