# Wouldn't BoSe shot monthly be dangerous?



## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Sorry, and no I'm not planning to do this. But my kids 4h leader wants us to give BoSe monthly to growing wethers for market. Yes the shot.

Monthly? Even said it leaves their system in about a month? and it can't hurt them? 

Also apparently in the past 2 years thier goats haven't had any issues with copper deficiency, which im guessing maybe they're just lucky there but to be honest when I asked he didn't even seem to know anything about copper deficiency in goats, even though I specifically brought it up last year too that ot goats where copper deficient and that I wanted to look in to others feeds because the one they recommended had no copper in it.

I'm just feeling a little frustrated, we have always sort of had to follow our gut and stray from what the leader says but this time with the selenium I'm afraid he'll actually be endangering the other kids animals (parents that don't know otherwise). I just don't know how to fight this one. In the past it's been easy to turn a blind eye and do our own thing, but we did what we felt was best for our goats, and there was never anything dangerous about what we did or decided not to do.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I would not ever recommend monthly Bo-Se. Not everyone can be that great at seeing the necessary signs.
HOWEVER...
I regard nutritional supplementation via injection to be an emergency measure only, so my answer may show that bias.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Your leader is wrong. Bo.se is very slowly absorbed. The animal gets about 10% right off and it reaches maximum peak about 40 days after the injection. 
That said, I have given monthly half strength doses when needed. Oral selenium yeast actually works much better, is not toxic, and is given monthly.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Trust your intuition not your 4H leader. And trust TGS.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Like I said I have no intention on giving bo-se monthly. I had planned on using the oral gel monthly but no more then that. I just feel that our leader is very under educated when it comes to goat and is taking the word of others to loosely. I mean I don't know much either yet, we both started 4h goats the same year. So in terms of time we have equal experience. Though they raise show lambs as well and do jackpot shows all year for sheep and goats. My biggest issue is how to I warn the other parents of the risk our leader is suggesting without openly undermining both the goat and the sheep leader. I know I can talk to one parent in confidence, but I'm not sure how the others will hear me.


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## BethJ (May 28, 2019)

goathiker said:


> Oral selenium yeast actually works much better, is not toxic, and is given monthly.


I saw that UltraCruz makes a selenium yeast pellet and powder. What product or brand do you use and how do you dose it?

I'm still waiting to see if my girls deficiency improves after offering selenium salt free choice but I'm curious what other options are out there other than Bo-Se injection. They aren't consuming the sale as much as I thought they would but hopefully they know what they are doing and will eat it if they need it.

Thanks!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I guess in a way the leader is teaching the kids something, not take anyone’s advise no matter who is giving it. 
I guess it’s not totally unheard of to give monthly BOSE shots, a lady that came along with a family to buy a wether from me was talking about how she gave her doe that was weak in the pasterns monthly BOSE shots until it corrected. 
But I don’t know if there is anything you really can do to give the others a heads up without causing a bunch of drama. I know there was a lot that I didn’t fully agree with our leader and I just kept my mouth shut and then explained to the kids why I disagreed with what was done. Like one of the meetings was banding, giving CDT shots and disbudding, the same animal, all at once at a week old. But your leader really should be careful giving advise like that. She is not a vet and giving information like that can come back and bite her in the butt.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> Well I guess in a way the leader is teaching the kids something, not take anyone's advise no matter who is giving it.
> I guess it's not totally unheard of to give monthly BOSE shots, a lady that came along with a family to buy a wether from me was talking about how she gave her doe that was weak in the pasterns monthly BOSE shots until it corrected.
> But I don't know if there is anything you really can do to give the others a heads up without causing a bunch of drama. I know there was a lot that I didn't fully agree with our leader and I just kept my mouth shut and then explained to the kids why I disagreed with what was done. Like one of the meetings was banding, giving CDT shots and disbudding, the same animal, all at once at a week old. But your leader really should be careful giving advise like that. She is not a vet and giving information like that can come back and bite her in the butt.


I can totally understand monthly shots for a severe deficiency, but not just to encourage growth rates. I certainly wouldn't think 1 dose of anything could fully eliminate a deficiency, error some type of follow up or maintenance plan for long term.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do not recommend monthly shots.

That is asking for trouble if a goat is not deficient. Devastating and deadly consequences in my book.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Omg, and now baking soda too.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

CCCSAW said:


> Omg, and now baking soda too.
> View attachment 162917


Lol this is awful! Baking soda CAUSES that!! I'd reply with a good ol smackdown of "NO! Baking soda de-acidifies urine. You want acidic urine so stones can dissolve. Ammonium chloride prevents stones, baking soda cancels out ammonium chloride and CAUSES stones."

Let me at this 4H leader!! 

Please stand up and inform those of what is wrong. Go to the leader directly, provide her with the info she needs.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow. Where did this advisor learn about goats? Yikes 

I definitely wouldn't be following those instructions. Nope. If you want to give a monthly supplement, stick with the selenium e gel, I believe it's still a monthly dose deal, but even that we only give every other month. You'll have random cases that require more selenium, even Bo-Se but certainly not 1x a month!

Umm... maybe the advisor was thinking ammonium chloride? You can top dress AC to help prevent stones and certainly would do that, sprinkle a little on their grain every day. Feed has AC in it, but usually not enough, especially in show goats.


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## NicoleV (Dec 12, 2015)

You can ask the 4h leader why she feels the wethers are deficient that they would need a bose shot once a month? You can offer to have the herd be blood tested for serum Selenium levels to determine the need for bose. I don't know how far you are, but the CAHFS lab at UC Davis will test for $18 per sample and you must send the blood in a lavender top tube. I'm sure other local university veterinary diagnostic labs offer similar testing. 

I personally live in a selenium deficient area and I had my hay tested for selenium. It was so low that it was non existent. Weekly replamin plus gel only brought my herd to serum levels just hovering over deficiency. So I supplement with daily selenium yeast powder from santa cruz animal health. I give them 1.5 times the daily max dose, which is about .6 mg per day (according to the USDA, .4 mg is the legal max daily). That has increased my herds average selenium serum levels to the middle of the healthy range. Selenium yeast at the correct dosage is very safe and not as toxic as bose because the goat can pee the excess out if it doesn't need it.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

NicoleV said:


> You can ask the 4h leader why she feels the wethers are deficient that they would need a bose shot once a month? You can offer to have the herd be blood tested for serum Selenium levels to determine the need for bose. I don't know how far you are, but the CAHFS lab at UC Davis will test for $18 per sample and you must send the blood in a lavender top tube. I'm sure other local university veterinary diagnostic labs offer similar testing.
> 
> I personally live in a selenium deficient area and I had my hay tested for selenium. It was so low that it was non existent. Weekly replamin plus gel only brought my herd to serum levels just hovering over deficiency. So I supplement with daily selenium yeast powder from santa cruz animal health. I give them 1.5 times the daily max dose, which is about .6 mg per day (according to the USDA, .4 mg is the legal max daily). That has increased my herds average selenium serum levels to the middle of the healthy range. Selenium yeast at the correct dosage is very safe and not as toxic as bose because the goat can pee the excess out if it doesn't need it.


Our area is selenium deficient though beside useing bo-se for pregnancy I personally haven't seen it as deficiency in my goats. Though I do give them a random boost with the oral gel probably ever 3-4 months just to be on the safe side, and anytime 1 comes ill which hasn't been but 2 times in 2 years. I honestly I'm under the impression that the monthly dosing is simply to increase growth rates by keeping their levels up. On the map my county averages .19ppm soil selenium and the closer county to the north of us at .5+ppm. Yes UC DAVIS would be the closest for us, but even $18 isn't in the budget right now having to prepare for getting wethers just before or after Christmas


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

HoosierShadow said:


> Wow. Where did this advisor learn about goats? Yikes
> 
> I definitely wouldn't be following those instructions. Nope. If you want to give a monthly supplement, stick with the selenium e gel, I believe it's still a monthly dose deal, but even that we only give every other month. You'll have random cases that require more selenium, even Bo-Se but certainly not 1x a month!
> 
> Umm... maybe the advisor was thinking ammonium chloride? You can top dress AC to help prevent stones and certainly would do that, sprinkle a little on their grain every day. Feed has AC in it, but usually not enough, especially in show goats.


Nope definitely meant baking soda. The family raises and shows sheep, just got into goats 2 years ago same time as us. I know they have feed and training coaches for the kids. Because the do jackpot and registered shows for both animals. Like I mentioned earlier I think she takes the word of others a little too loosely because after all they are "in it to win it".


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sounds like a congenital lack of ability to deal with nuance.
Your club will probably suffer under this leadership
I'm sorry... I don't have an answer. My mouth would have raised major ruckus by now, because I have a congenital lack of ability to deal with a congenital lack of ability to deal with nuance...
Yes, I "get" the irony in that.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You may have to take documentation to the extension office and have them deal with the problematic leader.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is this a group text the leader sent out? If it is and you really are concerned about the others in your group but don’t want to flat out say you are wrong and start something, I would call her out in a questionable way. “I’m sorry, I’m confused. Maybe you can explain it better so I can understand but I thought (quote nigeriandwarfowner)” that would probably put enough doubt into the others they will look the information up.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I have used the selenium/e gel, not the BoSe. I have read numerous posts stating the importance of also giving a vitamin E gel cap (don't remember the dosage size) when using BoSe injections. That the addition of supplement E is needed to help with the absorption, metabolism of the BoSe. I have also read there is a narrow window of safety with dosage and an exact (not estimated) weight is vital to avoid a toxic reaction. Not many people have the availability and/or means of transport needed for being able to get a scale weight on their individual goats monthly.

These suggestions of free choice baking soda and monthly BoSe is endangering the health of the goats. I do realize some goats are referred to as terminal and possibly this is the case with these goats.

What I find so concerning is the probability of others following this advice and incorporating these methods within the entire herd which very well could contain goats other than market wethers.

An old saying, the blind leading the blind, surely fits this situation.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my, that so called leader needs to be fully re-educated or removed in her position before she kills many animals. This is awful.


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