# Musing on boer conformation...



## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I know pretty much nothing about conformation but I was looking at a boer website and I noticed that almost all the goats had fairly sizable dips in their backs right behind the withers..... I would almost call it sway backed..... Diary goats have a bit of a dip in some cases but for the most part seem to have a straighter topline..... Mostly I was just wondering why this might be... onder: is it a favorable characteristic for some reason that is bred for? It seems as if it might cause back problems but I don't know... anyway it was just something I noticed that made me wonder so if anyone could shed some light I know we have some very experienced boer breeders on here.......

Thanks!
Miranda

p.s. looking again at some nubians it looks as if they are more along the boer line... are they more closely related to boers than the the other dairy breeds? I was thinking they might be because of the similar ears... but maybe not..... :whatgoat:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm not a real experienced boer breeder but that's not a desirable trait. Breeders will refer to a "strong topline", and fairly level across the top is preferred. However...I have seen a lot of ennobled boer goat pictures that do look very sway backed, like you said. :shrug: Maybe judges all have their own opinions.
Sometimes when they are still growing they will be jacked up in the back end but level out, and sometimes they wont. Three of my does looked a little sway backed while pregnant, but they were carrying trips and hanging pretty looooooow. :laugh: 
I personally think the nubians and boers are related. They have the long ears and also the roman noses. Both are a very large breed, and now we have spotted boers too. I know we had some gorgeous kids that were boer/nubian cross this year (sold very quickly with their dam).


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Your correct, there is a difference. The boer goat does naturally have more dip behind the withers. I believe they are trying to work/breed away from that... but it is much more noticeable (& acceptable) than the dairy breeds. :thumb:


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

Without seeing the exact picture you are referring to, I will give you my opinion. Alot of times when a boer is "set up" for a picture or a show they are asked to stretch out their hind legs slightly farther than they normally would to show off their loin and the length of the muscling down their leg. This obviously causes their backs to sway alittle by forcing the goat to "push" on its hind legs with the middle of its back. Their front legs are placed directly under them and they ar asked to "stretch" forward with their neck, again pushing with their backs. An extra long goat or a goat with Big front shoulders or a goat with an extra deep barrel can also highlight this sway, none of these things are faults but rather positive points. So alot of times you have 3-4 things contributing to "the look" most of them being Man-made factors. 
"Topline Strength" can be seen when the goat is standing naturally or moving in the ring but the pose is meant to highlight the other features in a goat, deep barrel, big front shoulders, big loin,long neck. The only time a sway in their topline in a posed position would be noted as a flaw is if, in the judges eye, the sway back would affect the goats breeding ability or compromised its structure. I am not aware of breeders breeding it out...unless you are talking about a structurally Unsound animal, then the breeder would Cull the animal not "breed it up"....again I would think most pictures you see On-line or real live show animals have the feature exaggerated by the handler and Would Not be considered genetic defect...
Try it out...take your goat with the best top-line and stretch his hind legs back and encourage him to stretch his neck forward...Sway Back...Then feel how tight the muscles in his back are stretched...So the "dip" is actually muscle....Now think Boer=Meat...jmo


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you guys for the replies! this is very interesting.

()relics: I wasn't referring to a particular photo but if you just google "boer goat" many of the pictures, even if they are just out in the field appear (in my opinion) to exhibit this characteristic... especially the big bucks though that appearance might be enhance as you said by all the muscle on their necks.....

but yes, I certainly see what you mean about how they are set up... which brings me to the whole question of why goats are set up in such (in some cases) strange ways.... as you can tell I don't show..... but it seems as if one could get a better idea of the true conformation of a goat by just seeing them with all four feet under them at relative ease........

but I guess it probably makes it harder to see muscle and or the udder on a doe......

anyway thank you all again!!!!

Miranda


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

It is not desirable, in my opinion. It causes loads of problems from kidding problems to older goats breaking down. Plus if its a larger goat then the weight would strain it far too much. A strong, even top line is prefered. Some dip is acceptable but for the most part it shouldn't strike you as strange looking. 

As far as nubians and boers being closely related, I have no clue. I do know that boers and nubians are often crossed because boers are known for being poor milkers so in effort to keep the doe in lactation longer they bred in nubians. The nubians are also a plus because they are so large framed, makes for bigger goats that can hold more meat. 

Hopefully I helped at leats a little bit


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I just have to disagree on the boers being poor milkers, well, at least from a being-able-to-feed their kids standpoint. I'm sure they would do lousy on a milk stand trying to produce a gallon a day. :laugh: I have two feeding trips right now without a problem. One of them did seem to not have enough for a few days but quickly stepped up production to match their appetite, and that's with three! They do have much smaller teats than nubians so milking them is not fun (I collected colostrum).
I know that crossing boers with nubians is popular for market wethers because the babies do grow off a little quicker (taller) than full boers do. Just my personal opinion that some nubian influence is in the spotted boers we have around now as well. :angel2: I got some kids with dapples in their capes this year and daddy was 88% boer. I think the rest was nubian because he also had some dapples.  
The boer confirmation has also begun to change recently due to what is popular in the show ring. The "original" body style is more solid and bull-doggy with shorter thick necks and heavy bone structure. The "new" style have extremely long and thin necks and smaller bone, smaller in the front, but still have those big rumps. I'm not sure how they did that starting with all of the "original" styles but what do I know. I'm new. (And I like them bull doggy! They're meat goats, after all.)


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I've never bred goats so I'm going on what I've read. I would think that nubian/boer crosses would make for a more fuctional goat. Better meat than nubians and better milkers than boers. Around here people have some issues (atleast some I know) have trouble with their boers keeping trips. 

Since I'm in showing (4-H for now... we'll see if it goes anywhere) than I prefer the new style. Mainly for the long neck, its more attractive to me personally. But I still like a big front end on them. I guess I prefer more of a cross between the two. Since I'm in livestock judging too I can see what you mean about both styles. Both have their advantages and places.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Dani-1995 said:


> I can see what you mean about both styles. Both have their advantages and places.


 :thumb: Me, too. I recently bought a "new style" doe and I think she's pretty despite my personal preference. :wink:


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