# Savanna/kiko???



## anthonyadams1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok i am thinking about crossing savannas with my kiko buck instead of boers like i had planned read somethings saying they were more parasite resistant than boers but still pack on the meat. So what do you guys think?? Also if anyone knows where i could find savannas here in Alabama? Thanks


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## brazboers (Dec 24, 2012)

Nothing packs on muscle like the boer goats. Myotonic has a higher muscle to bone ratio but does not have the frame of a boer. Boer 's gave little to no parasite resistance. I personally do not like the kiko. They look to much like a dairy goat, but everyone around here says boer/ kiko is the way to go. I personally am crossing my full blood boers with texmaster.

Good luck either way you go.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I'd go with savanna/Boers. Not all Boers are bad with parasites just watch where they come from... no show stock or anything. 

I would even consider a nice myotonic. I personally see kilos as a fad that will fade. They don't have enough muscle to get too far. The savanna on the other hand is a good solid goat


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## kikoguy (Dec 9, 2012)

A farm that I bought my first 6 does from tried thiis cross and said that the kids were great they grew fast and were very resistant to parisites they just had trouble with the original does surviving well on forage only. How old is your buck and what blood lines does he have or is he commercial. And dani1995 if kikos were a fad why would people still be breeding them for almost 15 years so I don't think its a fad.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't see much improvement in the breed. Mainly in muscle development. The allure to them is parasite resistant and hardiness, not muscling ability or other things that contribute to a great meat goat. It could be different in your area but the kikos here are all frail bones, slight framed and almost no muscle tone. Do you have or know of anyone who has kikos that are heavy muscled? I'd like to see them... I don't think kikos are a bad breed but I haven't seen improvement in the areas that need it.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

I agree with Dani. I'm not a kiko fan. If you want a good cross, try myoXboerXsavanna and see what you get. Our boers only get wormed twice a year and we don't have many problems.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I don't care for kiko's HOWEVER, here is a link to a ranch that has 100% reg kikos and they aren't frail looking; http://www.salmoncreekranch.com/Goats.html


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Those kikos don't look bad clearwtrbeach. They look pretty good compared to most of the others I've seen.


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## brazboers (Dec 24, 2012)

I feel the same way. There parasite resistance is just not enough to offset there lack of muscle. At least not in the kiko's I have seen.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I don't care for kiko's HOWEVER, here is a link to a ranch that has 100% reg kikos and they aren't frail looking; http://www.salmoncreekranch.com/Goats.html


Those are the nicest kikos I have ever seen. The ones here are narrow, frail boned and just too small.

With Boers, if you worm the right and know wormer resistance issues you'll.be just fine. Any goat, no matter the breed, can have wormer resistance issues. If you have good management practices and buy adult goats from people with similar practices you shouldn't have a problem


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I might consider Kiko's if I could get them from them, but I can't so I won't. There is one Kiko breeder here that does have some nice but not nearly what those are.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I personally wouldn't have them. Every kikos I have ever seen in my area are not good goats. The farm posted above are really nice kikos. Wish we had some like that here. 

For my purpose (show wethers) they don't work. I like a very muscular, big boned goat and they just aren't that.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think they can hold up being show wethers. Even the boer/kiko wethers have a harder time from what I've seen around here.


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## anthonyadams1 (Oct 25, 2012)

My buck is 21mo. Old,i dont know about blood lines i feel like he has good line because his sire looked really nice. He was wormed once at 4mo. When i bought him and i havent had to worm him since. I would just like to try to get a little more meat on them with the savannas, i have talked to several people here in alabama that had horrible luck with boers, loosing more goats that they produce so thats got me a little afraid of boers.


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## anthonyadams1 (Oct 25, 2012)

My buck is 21mo. Old dont know about the blood lines but i feel like he has good lines because his sire looked really nice. He was wormed once at 4mo. Old and i havent had to worm him since.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm in eastern North Carolina where its very humid and known for worm issues. 

I deworm my goats at 3mths old and then again around 9mths old. After that just as needed. If they are pasture raised you have to watch how many are grazing and make sure it stays tall enough. Larva can only climes so high you have to make sure the browse is higher. I forget the reccomended height. The biggest problem I've had with any goat is coccidia. That's been worse than worms by far! 

If they are pasture raised you also need to make sure they don't graze 1 area, because then they're defecating on the places they eat which is never good. NC State University is doing a study on strip grazing. Basically you make a pasture into sections so the goats are forced to eat different areas. Last I heard it worked really well!


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## anthonyadams1 (Oct 25, 2012)

Its always good to rotate any grazing animals, especially goats. I believe its 3 inches on the height the larva can climb. It also really humid here in alabama and worms are the big issue thats why i like kiko crosses.


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## kikoguy (Dec 9, 2012)

www.mjironwateracers.com is. Were I bought my first goats they have some very nice goats and www.bbarwkikos.com we own goats from both farms and I don't think these goats look small by any means


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## kikoguy (Dec 9, 2012)

Www.w3ranch.com is a ranch in ks that crosses the kiko savanna and boer crosses he might be someone to email with some questions


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

anthonyadams1 said:


> My buck is 21mo. Old,i dont know about blood lines i feel like he has good line because his sire looked really nice. He was wormed once at 4mo. When i bought him and i havent had to worm him since. I would just like to try to get a little more meat on them with the savannas, i have talked to several people here in alabama that had horrible luck with boers, loosing more goats that they produce so thats got me a little afraid of boers.


There are a number of breeders here that do the boer cross to add meat. It seems like a good fit just from what I've seen. They haven't had any problems with preggo, delivery etc.


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## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

I personally don't see kikos as meat goats at all, as harsh as that may sound. They just don't cut it for me. There will never be a meat goat like a boer goat.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I like the one farms savannas. None of the kikos impress me. I like more length and leg muscle. Honestly, if I was going to have a commercial herd it would be a combination if Boer, savanna and myotonic. I'd need to study each breed to decide how I would accomplish it but those would my breeds of choice. 

Kikos need some improvement IMO... then again everyone will see it different. Its like dogs, I like pit bulls and other people like poodles. I'm not going to be able to convince them my breed of choice is better. 

I personally like Boers. They seem to be the strongest meat breed. I think savannas could come up as a top choice for many will a little crossing and experimenting. 

I'm in wethers so we have a specific look we go for. Boers are just my cup of tea.


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## goatgirl22 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'd go with texmaster and boer. Not a big fan of the kiko


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## surveyman (Jan 19, 2013)

The problem with the Kiko breed is too many people have sold inferior goats for breeding stock instead of sending them to the slaughterhouse. There was heavy culling in the development of the breed, and that culling stopped after they were imported because people were wanting to make quick money.


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## jmaynard (Feb 9, 2013)

I think using the Savannas to cross with your Kiko buck could be an advantageous idea. The Savannas, like Boers came from South Africa. Although, the Savannas came from a different area that is known to be wetter, so they have had more exposure to internal parasites and through natural selection are hardier for what I have read. The problem is finding them though!


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## anthonyadams1 (Oct 25, 2012)

I found some but they are around $1,400 for good does


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have sold all my Saanen bucks last year to Boer goat owners...Not a meat breed but because Saanen are large goats it add size to boer ( for meat purposes) and dairy ...one breeder bought three..he runs over 300 head of boer and struggled with moms producing enough milk....we began buying boer does to breed to our saanen buck..of course this would not due if you have registered stock and do shows...but for meat market kids..its great..


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## queenB3573 (3 mo ago)

Kikos rarely get sick they are very resistant to parasites. They breed well with just about any goat. Boers get worms really bad you have to stay on top of them are they will die very quickly from parasites. Nubians are hardy but parasites in just about any other goat is an issue but the worst I have dealt with is Boers getting parasites. I live in NC and it is an issue here the number one goat killer is parasites. I would like to try the Savannah breed they sound similar to KIkos. My Kiko males look just as big as the Savannah breed for what it is worth.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

queenB3573 said:


> Kikos rarely get sick they are very resistant to parasites. They breed well with just about any goat. Boers get worms really bad you have to stay on top of them are they will die very quickly from parasites. Nubians are hardy but parasites in just about any other goat is an issue but the worst I have dealt with is Boers getting parasites. I live in NC and it is an issue here the number one goat killer is parasites. I would like to try the Savannah breed they sound similar to KIkos. My Kiko males look just as big as the Savannah breed for what it is worth.


This is a pretty old thread 😉


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

queenB3573 said:


> Kikos rarely get sick they are very resistant to parasites. They breed well with just about any goat. Boers get worms really bad you have to stay on top of them are they will die very quickly from parasites. Nubians are hardy but parasites in just about any other goat is an issue but the worst I have dealt with is Boers getting parasites. I live in NC and it is an issue here the number one goat killer is parasites. I would like to try the Savannah breed they sound similar to KIkos. My Kiko males look just as big as the Savannah breed for what it is worth.


Keep in mind that there is good and bad in all breeds. Purebred doesn’t mean well-bred.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

queenB3573 said:


> Kikos rarely get sick they are very resistant to parasites. They breed well with just about any goat. Boers get worms really bad you have to stay on top of them are they will die very quickly from parasites. Nubians are hardy but parasites in just about any other goat is an issue but the worst I have dealt with is Boers getting parasites. I live in NC and it is an issue here the number one goat killer is parasites. I would like to try the Savannah breed they sound similar to KIkos. My Kiko males look just as big as the Savannah breed for what it is worth.


Savannas have the same origins as Boers. Originally it was all one breed in South Africa, then they split them up based on color - solid white Savannas, red headed Boers, and solid red Kalaharis. Since being brought to the US they've deviated more based on breeding and show Boers have lost any hardiness they once had. Savannas have been kept for production (though a few breeders are starting to push for more aesthetics) and they're generally hardier than Boers, but they still originate in a dry climate so they're not going to be as resistant as a goat that's bred for wet and wormy, like Kiko supposedly are. That said, I was greatly disillusioned by my brief venture into the Kiko world. It's all about pedigrees these days and I see scrawny or full on stunted animals selling for four figures just because they have the right names on their papers. Never mind the obsession over 100% designation when the breed started as mutts anyway - and haven't come far in that regard, because they can look and perform VASTLY differently. I've had much better results from crossbreds, and they're much cheaper too since their only value is in their performance, not papers. Most of mine do have some percentage of Kiko but I only have one purebred and she may be about to go because despite being from those big name, sought after bloodlines, she's lanky and I'm currently fighting worms in her. Whereas I have Boer/dairy cross does out there who are low maintenance with great feet and rarely need wormed, with better conformation to boot.
I used a Savanna buck for the last several years and while I like the roundness he threw I wasn't happy with the overall size. I looked into getting another when I was buck shopping but didn't find one that fit what I was looking for within a reasonable distance (there are none in my area, I'd have to go at least a day out to get one at all). I may look again next year. I will not buy a full Boer buck due to the hardiness - they are mostly show stock around here and very high maintenance. That said I did buy a couple does that are more or less full Boer this year because I do want to add more size, but if they have a hard time they'll get sold in the spring. Hopefully crossing them will add more hardiness on the kids.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I’m just gonna say I have not had hardiness or worm issues with my Boers. They’ve been fantastic! They are not registered tho.
That being said, I might be looking at getting a savanna/boer cross buck next time around. Just to see what happens. 😊


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Boer Mama said:


> I’m just gonna say I have not had hardiness or worm issues with my Boers. They’ve been fantastic! They are not registered tho.
> That being said, I might be looking at getting a savanna/boer cross buck next time around. Just to see what happens. 😊


Based on your picture I'm gonna go ahead and say your climate resembles South Africa more than western Washington does  We ARE more like New Zealand in that respect. And if we had more actual production Boers they wouldn't be quite so bad, but show stock that are raised in barns on gallons of feed don't exactly fare well if they're kicked out onto wet pasture. I don't hate Boers (well, not all of them) but I still prefer them crossed. Hybrid vigor, more milk production with better udders, better foragers, smarter...


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

I raise registered Boers and Nubian / Boer crosses and my Boers and crosses are very healthy and don’t require a lot of input they get hay lots of pasture/ forage and some grain but no more than any other breed. I breed for low maintenance but good conformation. Some of my Boers haven’t needed dewormed in years I use fecals and FAMACHA scoring to tell if they need it. When I take fecals in to vets they tell me they’ve never seen goat fecals that clean. It’s all in the management and genetics any goat can have parasite problems just some individuals have better or worse resistance.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

A lot of it has to do with management as well!

We raise FB registered boers in a very humid and wet area where we get mud up to our knees in some spots. It usually swampy or snowy, and they live out in it 24/7 with lean-tos and plastic huts. We don’t deworm more than 0 to 1 times a year. If we do, they are culled from our program.

My FB savannas never out-performed my FB boers. I don’t mean that in a negative way at all. Just that all the praises people made about savannas weren’t anything my boers couldn’t do themselves. They were on a pretty level playing field with boers just being larger and thicker.

However, I’ve learned that if you only focus on the breed, you’re more likely to be disappointed. There is just a lot of variability! If you focus on each individual, you’ll be miles ahead! Culling is so important.

Crossbreeding has a lot of benefits, and I love the 50% boer/savanna and boer/nubian crosses I’ve gotten. They are exceptional! Still need to stay vigilant in culling. Not every baby born is a superstar.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> I raise registered Boers and Nubian / Boer crosses and my Boers and crosses are very healthy and don’t require a lot of input they get hay lots of pasture/ forage and some grain but no more than any other breed. I breed for low maintenance but good conformation. Some of my Boers haven’t needed dewormed in years I use fecals and FAMACHA scoring to tell if they need it. When I take fecals in to vets they tell me they’ve never seen goat fecals that clean. It’s all in the management and genetics any goat can have parasite problems just some individuals have better or worse resistance.


You're also in a much drier climate, like BM. I do get 0 fecal counts sometimes and I love seeing them but sometimes I have goats with other good traits I don't want to lose that justify having to worm more often. I don't care what their counts are if there's no meat on them. And you do have access to better production stock there too.
As far as "no more grain than other breeds" though - I have never grained on a herdwide scale, and even the pellets I give occasionally to individuals are hay-based. Most Kiko breeders do no grain either and expect their goats to live on hay and forage, or even forage alone if their situation allows for it.



CountyLineAcres said:


> Crossbreeding has a lot of benefits, and I love the 50% boer/savanna and boer/nubian crosses I’ve gotten. They are exceptional! Still need to stay vigilant in culling. Not every baby born is a superstar.


I've always used a multi-faceted approach but I do have trouble culling sometimes with ones that I had high hopes for. This year I cut my breedable does by about half - all my yearlings and most of the kids born here over the last several years because the coccidia I didn't realize I was dealing with had stunted them, making them more susceptible to anything and everything even if their genetics didn't. Plus several older ones that have struggled since I moved to this cursed property.
I retained a bunch of doelings who grew out great with coccidia prevention and bought a number of new breedable does. My star is a Boer/Alpine I brought up from eastern Oregon (dry climate) because she's a dead ringer for my herd queen/top performer. Despite moving during the worst season (spring) she's had no treatments except copper bolus and her counts are excellent, and she's still FAT on the moderate diet mine get - down from obese when I got her, lol. A year on breeding rations without being bred. She had quads last year and the daughter that I got with her is great too. Not quite as beefy but she's gonna be TALL. At ten months she was the size of most of my adults!! Both bred for January and I can't WAIT! Those are the genetics I want a herd full of!

In contrast, I'm having trouble getting counts down on a Boer and the Kiko doe who have both lived in this area for years. The genetics aren't there. The Boer is nice enough that she might justify more treatments and hopefully improve it with the right pairing, but I shouldn't have this kind of trouble with a Kiko. And there are several other new ones that are "wait and see". I expect to do more heavy culling next year when I find out which goats do and don't perform well now that I'm more on top of things. I can't afford to be sentimental when it puts their health and quality of life at risk.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> You're also in a much drier climate, like BM. I do get 0 fecal counts sometimes and I love seeing them but sometimes I have goats with other good traits I don't want to lose that justify having to worm more often. I don't care what their counts are if there's no meat on them. And you do have access to better production stock there too.
> As far as "no more grain than other breeds" though - I have never grained on a herdwide scale, and even the pellets I give occasionally to individuals are hay-based. Most Kiko breeders do no grain either and expect their goats to live on hay and forage, or even forage alone if their situation allows for it.


I can agree on not wanting to lose good traits! I feel like a lot of breeders sadly get side tracked by one goal( not all ). I try to breed for three main things healthy productive animals, more meat and good conformation for production. 
I feel like my goats are meaty my main homebred buck is 260 pounds and super muscular my does are 150-190 and that’s not extra fat 😂 my kids are averaging 60 pounds at four months old ( what the ideal market weight is around here ) I do think cross breeding is really cool I’ve been tempted to get some cross does but am just not quite ready to expand I’ve culled down to the absolute best producers out of my herd. I would love seeing pics of your Boer / Alpine I really want a Alpine doe but they are super hard to find in my area sadly lol.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> I can agree on not wanting to lose good traits! I feel like a lot of breeders sadly get side tracked by one goal( not all ). I try to breed for three main things healthy productive animals, more meat and good conformation for production.
> I feel like my goats are meaty my main homebred buck is 260 pounds and super muscular my does are 150-190 and that’s not extra fat 😂 my kids are averaging 60 pounds at four months old ( what the ideal market weight is around here ) I do think cross breeding is really cool I’ve been tempted to get some cross does but am just not quite ready to expand I’ve culled down to the absolute best producers out of my herd. I would love seeing pics of your Boer / Alpine I really want a Alpine doe but they are super hard to find in my area sadly lol.


I've never been a fan of Alpines - they tend to have nasty attitudes and most are very dairy type, but this lady comes from an ancient (15?? I think) thicker-built homestead dam whose full sister (to the dam) is roughly the same age which is a heck of a testament for longevity!! My herd queen she looks like is Boer/Saanen and she's sturdy but not quite this big. She runs about 175 lb open. I haven't attempted to get this one on the scale but I'd put money on her being north of 200. My Kiko crosses tend to run 130-140 but I'd like to get my average up into the same range as yours. My kids weaned around 50 lb at 90 days this year with some supplemental feed (the hay-based pellets). Only one of those is high percentage Boer (and granddaughter of said herd queen 😊)


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I've never been a fan of Alpines - they tend to have nasty attitudes and most are very dairy type, but this lady comes from an ancient (15?? I think) thicker-built homestead dam whose full sister (to the dam) is roughly the same age which is a heck of a testament for longevity!! My herd queen she looks like is Boer/Saanen and she's sturdy but not quite this big. She runs about 175 lb open. I haven't attempted to get this one on the scale but I'd put money on her being north of 200. My Kiko crosses tend to run 130-140 but I'd like to get my average up into the same range as yours. My kids weaned around 50 lb at 90 days this year with some supplemental feed (the hay-based pellets). Only one of those is high percentage Boer (and granddaughter of said herd queen 😊)


I want one to breed to a 100% Boer and then cross those kids back again on Boer to get 75% Boer 25% Alpine ( or any standard dairy breed ) out of my crosses my favs are the 75% Boer 25% Nubian they are chunky but sell really well to people not interested in registered Boers! I do miss my last Kiko/ Nubian/ Boer cross she was a bottle baby and was just too aggressive towards other goats. I wonder if you would like a 50/50 Boer Savanna buck?


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I don’t have any input but I’m laughing at your kids being 50lbs at 90 days because my Nigerians (at least 2 of them) are 50lbs at a year old


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

I think it’s crazy that your kids come out 3 pounds and mine come out 10-13 😂😂😂😂


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> I want one to breed to a 100% Boer and then cross those kids back again on Boer to get 75% Boer 25% Alpine ( or any standard dairy breed ) out of my crosses my favs are the 75% Boer 25% Nubian they are chunky but sell really well to people not interested in registered Boers! I do miss my last Kiko/ Nubian/ Boer cross she was a bottle baby and was just too aggressive towards other goats. I wonder if you would like a 50/50 Boer Savanna buck?


Definitely possible, if he had what I wanted! The downside to Savannas is white 😕 Between Savanna, Kiko, Saanen, and traditional pattern I have SO MUCH WHITE!

Overall I prefer Saanens for crossing. They have a mellow temperament for dairies and a good sturdy build. I got my herd queen as a kid and absolutely loved her dam. They'd used old school Boer semen hoping for a buckling to butcher but she was too nice to put in the freezer and they didn't want a crossbred doe so they listed her for sale and held her until weaning for me (I didn't do bottle kids at the time). I'm still in touch with them but they've gone to full Boers. I ended up selling her as a 2 year old when I ventured into registered Kikos but was lucky enough to have the opportunity to buy her back after I learned my lesson and she's a lifer. Smart, steady temperament, great mom and protective of the entire herd (not just her own kids), well built and a nice udder. One of my favorite milkers - the Boer crosses might not pump out a gallon a day but they make up for it with solids concentration and it's delicious.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> I think it’s crazy that your kids come out 3 pounds and mine come out 10-13 😂😂😂😂


I had full size, full term Boer cross triplet bucklings this year that were all around 4  My crossbreds usually average around 7 which come out nice and easy.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I had full size, full term Boer cross triplet bucklings this year that were all around 4  My crossbreds usually average around 7 which come out nice and easy.


I’ve not had any issues with them having kidding problems thank goodness 😅


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Definitely possible, if he had what I wanted! The downside to Savannas is white :/ Between Savanna, Kiko, Saanen, and traditional pattern I have SO MUCH WHITE!
> 
> Overall I prefer Saanens for crossing. They have a mellow temperament for dairies and a good sturdy build. I got my herd queen as a kid and absolutely loved her dam. They'd used old school Boer semen hoping for a buckling to butcher but she was too nice to put in the freezer and they didn't want a crossbred doe so they listed her for sale and held her until weaning for me (I didn't do bottle kids at the time). I'm still in touch with them but they've gone to full Boers. I ended up selling her as a 2 year old when I ventured into registered Kikos but was lucky enough to have the opportunity to buy her back after I learned my lesson and she's a lifer. Smart, steady temperament, great mom and protective of the entire herd (not just her own kids), well built and a nice udder. One of my favorite milkers - the Boer crosses might not pump out a gallon a day but they make up for it with solids concentration and it's delicious.


Ugh that is a LOT of white 😂. I have mostly old genetics ( my fav ) I’m not a super big fan of the “new genetics “ as a whole but I also breed for different qualities in my goats 🤷🏻‍♀️ To each his own lol.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I've always used a multi-faceted approach but I do have trouble culling sometimes with ones that I had high hopes for. This year I cut my breedable does by about half - all my yearlings and most of the kids born here over the last several years because the coccidia I didn't realize I was dealing with had stunted them, making them more susceptible to anything and everything even if their genetics didn't. Plus several older ones that have struggled since I moved to this cursed property.
> I retained a bunch of doelings who grew out great with coccidia prevention and bought a number of new breedable does. My star is a Boer/Alpine I brought up from eastern Oregon (dry climate) because she's a dead ringer for my herd queen/top performer. Despite moving during the worst season (spring) she's had no treatments except copper bolus and her counts are excellent, and she's still FAT on the moderate diet mine get - down from obese when I got her, lol. A year on breeding rations without being bred. She had quads last year and the daughter that I got with her is great too. Not quite as beefy but she's gonna be TALL. At ten months she was the size of most of my adults!! Both bred for January and I can't WAIT! Those are the genetics I want a herd full of!
> 
> In contrast, I'm having trouble getting counts down on a Boer and the Kiko doe who have both lived in this area for years. The genetics aren't there. The Boer is nice enough that she might justify more treatments and hopefully improve it with the right pairing, but I shouldn't have this kind of trouble with a Kiko. And there are several other new ones that are "wait and see". I expect to do more heavy culling next year when I find out which goats do and don't perform well now that I'm more on top of things. I can't afford to be sentimental when it puts their health and quality of life at risk.


We used to be that way. Now, we have no issue culling $2000 goats and sending them to market. If they can’t perform, we don’t want them. My price tags aren’t just for how pretty they are. You’ll definitely see the benefit of heavy culling!

We luckily had the ability to bring goats from all climates and all across the country before transport prices shot through the roof. I have noticed that it’s not so much where they’re raised but how they’re raised.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

CountyLineAcres said:


> We used to be that way. Now, we have no issue culling $2000 goats and sending them to market. If they can’t perform, we don’t want them. My price tags aren’t just for how pretty they are. You’ll definitely see the benefit of heavy culling!
> 
> We luckily had the ability to bring goats from all climates and all across the country before transport prices shot through the roof. I have noticed that it’s not so much where they’re raised but how they’re raised.


Couldn’t agree more!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

CountyLineAcres said:


> We used to be that way. Now, we have no issue culling $2000 goats and sending them to market. If they can’t perform, we don’t want them. My price tags aren’t just for how pretty they are. You’ll definitely see the benefit of heavy culling!
> 
> We luckily had the ability to bring goats from all climates and all across the country before transport prices shot through the roof. I have noticed that it’s not so much where they’re raised but how they’re raised.


Climate is part of that though. If you can get them sent from somewhere with similar weather patterns as well as similar management they should hold up on your place - and if you're dry transitioning from wet is still going to be easier. Hooves and worm resistance are based on genetics (feet almost entirely) and what they're exposed to growing up. Most of the country isn't comparable to here and Boers were not developed for wet. And I won't buy goats sight unseen anymore; I've been burned too many times. I did take a chance on these ones from Oregon but I asked tons of questions and the does were very reasonably priced, and the buckling (different breeder) was a trade. Not much to lose and the does are probably one of the best buys I've ever made.
Plus I can't justify cross-country transport for $200-300 goats even before costs went up, lol. The ones I like do not buy or sell for thousands of dollars, nor would I ever be able to make back that kind of money on them selling for meat. The ones I get attached to are usually homebreds that I had high hopes for; ones that I've bought are easier to cull.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Climate is part of that though. If you can get them sent from somewhere with similar weather patterns as well as similar management they should hold up on your place - and if you're dry transitioning from wet is still going to be easier. Hooves and worm resistance are based on genetics (feet almost entirely) and what they're exposed to growing up. Most of the country isn't comparable to here and Boers were not developed for wet. And I won't buy goats sight unseen anymore; I've been burned too many times. I did take a chance on these ones from Oregon but I asked tons of questions and the does were very reasonably priced, and the buckling (different breeder) was a trade. Not much to lose and the does are probably one of the best buys I've ever made.
> Plus I can't justify cross-country transport for $200-300 goats even before costs went up, lol. The ones I like do not buy or sell for thousands of dollars, nor would I ever be able to make back that kind of money on them selling for meat. The ones I get attached to are usually homebreds that I had high hopes for; ones that I've bought are easier to cull.


I understand not everyone gets the opportunity! That’s why I’m sharing my experience. Some people may find it helpful or interesting.

Not saying that climate has zero to do with it, but I argue management is more important. Hence why I advise buyers to find breeders that best fit their management style and goals. 

I have had Boers from dry climates perform exceptionally in our rain, mud, and freezing temps. I’ve also had Boers from wet climates who couldn’t handle it. 

The biggest difference was that the boers from the dry and barren climate were outside 24/7 browsing for whatever vegetation they could find. They were rarely dewormed and culled heavy. While the Boers in the humid and wet climate were given heated barns to escape the rain, had dewormer resistance, and coddled excessively.

I think finding a breeder from a similar climate with similar management would be the perfect combo. I just won’t knock a good quality breeder with great management and genetics simply because of the climate.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

CountyLineAcres said:


> I understand not everyone gets the opportunity! That’s why I’m sharing my experience. Some people may find it helpful or interesting.
> 
> Not saying that climate has zero to do with it, but I argue management is more important. Hence why I advise buyers to find breeders that best fit their management style and goals.
> 
> ...


Sometimes you just never know. This superstar doe (and her daughter) were kept in a fairly small dry lot with heavier feed than I give and based on both that and the climate they shouldn't have stood a chance here but obviously the genetics are there. The Kiko has been on low input pasture her entire life but apparently this property is just too much for her 🤷‍♀️ 
Another important factor regarding vegetation is whether they're mostly eating taller brush or grazing pasture, because the worms are down on the grass. If everything they're foraging is up off the ground they have minimal exposure to worms. I have both, and regardless of rotation if the grass is lush they'll chew it down to the ground before paying much attention to the taller bushes and trees.


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