# Billy Jean Kidding Thread ~ She Kidded ~ Photos added!



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

My LaMancha (Billy jean) is pregnant, but I am not sure of her due date. Or rather I am fairly certain she's pregnant (if anyone has read my kidding problem thread, let's just say I don't really know what to think right now lol), I see something moving in her, she was as huge as a house, and now something has settled to cause her backbone to look hollow. This happened about a day ago. Before this, she was huge and fluffy all over, and looked extremely obese.

I would have taken a photo of her udder, but she has none. Barely a handful of udder under the two teats. This Doe is so furry, it's hard to get a good photo of the teats, she has a nice warm winter coat on her right now.

Her ligaments are loose, but not completely gone. Her tail raises, then goes down halfway, sometimes all the way. She is pawing the ground, and has an area in the greenhouse where she has made a "bed" that she lies in a lot now.

I have 2 other does that have already delivered kids, with no kids surviving. Since she ran with the Bucks the same time as the other Does, I assume she will be due soon, or she could be due in another month, I have no way to be certain. I'm just checking her every hour, and watching for mucus, udder development or for the ligs to go completely.

I'm not sure how to tell anything by looking at the pooch, but since others posted photos of it in their threads, I figured it wouldn't hurt to post one here either.

I have learned some valuable lessons about running does with bucks, and as soon as Billy Jean kids, all my does will be seperated from the bucks, they already have a separate pen ready and waiting. I won't be breeding the other two does again, and am hoping that Billy Jean has no difficulties, so that maybe she can be bred again in 2012.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I am no expert, but Billie Jean sure looks like a Boer goat to me. If she is a cross with a boer and takes after the Boer side more, she might not have much of an udder. Also, sometimes I understand their udders (goat udders, not particularly Boer udders) don't fill until the last minute. It sounds like she is pretty close, from her behavior, and that the kids have dropped. Pictures are always good.

I am really pulling for her to have no problems. Hugs and good thoughts going your way.

Jan


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

What a sweet looking girl you have there.

She looks like she has really sunk in. I would say babies pretty soon. How soon you ask? I have no idea, but as sunk in as she is I would GUESS days.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Jan, I hope she's not a Boer, I have a Boer buck and he has ears. She doesn't have ears. The lady I purchased her from said she is LaMancha, and showed me her moms udders, they were HUGE.

But I'm also learning that one could tell me anything and I don't know what I am doing, or what I have purchased, she could be Boer for all I know. I have already figured out that lady is probably not very "honest" to buyers who haven't a clue.

But the only goat I have "papers" on, is my Boer Billy "Cowboy", I know he's 100% Boer and the lady I purchased him from I trust 100% to be honest. The others don't have papers, I wasn't too concerned about buying for shows, mainly for the joy they bring, the milk, and to have something the children can show for 4H. If they like showing for 4H then when they are older, I may invest in some quality show goats.

I'm fairly certain she will have no problems, she's already made a bed and is staying stressfree and comfortably warm. I'm just right now just checking on her throughout the day, and leaving Snow White in the greenhouse with her to ensure she remains stress free. She has seperation issues, can not stand to be alone, I know once the kid is born then I may need to remove Snow White, but right now, I am trying to stay with the "keep it calm, quiet, peaceful, relaxed" attitude.

She's comfy, she beds in the back, Snow White beds in the front, their fresh hay is in the middle, they seem to have it worked out where they know they are not alone, yet they both want their "private" spaces.

I don't much care if she is a Boer at this point now, I just want my does to stay healthy and happy, and am keeping my fingers crossed that I will get at least one more doe from her kidding, but will be happy with anything so long as it's healthy, and stays healthy.

Sweetgoats, I was thinking it's getting closer myself, but Blue Eyes, my first Doe that kidded, had that sunken look for a good week before she lost her plug. I don't think she'll have it today, but Snow White, she kind of popped a kid out over night, last Saturday she had no back arch, no hollow, ligaments tight, no udder, NONE of the signs, so I left her in the pen to play. She had her kid the next Sunday, that's when things started going downhill for her 

Since I don't know for sure, I'm just focusing on keeping them both happy and toasty, so if I miss the kidding, at least the kid will be warm and not die from the cold.

Some say bad things come in threes, well if that's the case, I have had my three, (one with Blue Eyes, 2 with Snow White) so it's time for something GOOD to happen! My daughter says she had a dream that Billy Jean had 3 kids, with no problems, they just popped out one right after the other.

I'll be happy with one, but if the goods also come in threes too, YIPEE there will be enough kids for all my children and does to spoil rotten!

I don't think she will have 3, but she was so huge before she hallowed, there could be at least 2 in there.


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## Hush Hills Fainters (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Maria-I hope everything goes well with Biily Jean...she is cute...from this picture you posted her ears look longer then they really are but from the other one you posted you can see that she has tiny tiny ears  I would say she is a boar/LaMancha cross. I am so happy Snow White is doing better...you had me on pins and needles...Just think with all you have gone through how many of us you can help with your with your first-hand experiance.

Our prayers are with you and fingers are crossed...happy healthy kids.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Shes probably a LaBoer.  They are good moms most of the time.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

A LaBoer :slapfloor: Ok now I really do feel like a fool, that's what I get for being so trusting when buying my goats lol.

Actually, if she is part Boer, then this means she's also "hardier" correct? that gets me excited, it means she will most likely NOT have problems, and then she'll be the perfect Doe to breed with Cowboy in the future.

I wanted her for the udders her mama had, but at this point, milk isn't my biggest concern, I just want her to kid with no problems. My right hand is all cracked up and dry right now, it's about had all it can take :ROFL:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I agree she definitely looks like boer. Maybe the breeder doesn't know their goats? Crazy people....
She sure is a beautiful girl though, and sounds like she's getting close  
Many thoughts and prayers going out that she has an easy kidding experience


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Yes, I agree most boers can be hardy. But a lot are not. My own experiences anyways.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Yep...she looks like "LaBoer" to me! She has the thickness and traditional coloring of a Boer...but no ears! Very pretty girl too!

It's hard to say exactly when she will go, but you being the awesome goat mom that you are, she's not going to have chance to be sneaky about it!

I hope she has the udder her dam has, have you checked her teats? Some Boers are known for having more than 2 teats...if she's "clean teated" meaning only 2, then you should have no problems with milking her. If you can feel an udder through the fur, then she's working on building it for her kids.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you everyone, well, then I am 99.9% certain she will have NO problems delivering this kid. I know more about Boers than I do any other, for the simple fact the lady up the road raises 100% boers, and is very liberal with her information. I may not can tell the difference between the cross-breds, but I have heard great stories about her goats and how hardy they are. If Billy Jean is Lamancha and Boer, then that's also wonderful, my worries about the LaMancha small frame may be for naught. She's the one I thought would have the most difficult birth because she was so small when I purchased her.

I went back out to study her and Snow White a bit more, and stood them side to side. I was amazed to see that Billy Jean has a much better spread in back, she's a clear 3 inches wider than Snow White, and Snow White is my "tallest" doe. 3 inches may not seem to be much to most, but for me, that's ALOT more room to navigate a kid through compared to Snow Whites spread! I didn't examine her cervix, just stood them side by side so I could see the width between the back legs. Billy Jeans spread literally shocked me, and here I was worried about HER having a problem delivery cause she's short. Her body frame is WAY more impressive than Snow Whites!

I always thought she was the smallest because she is the shortest, but after comparing the two, Billy Jean may have short legs, but her body is very hefty and sturdy.

I have read up on LaManchas, and figured they are a delicate nature.

Her mothers udder dragged on the ground, the "lady" told me she sometimes produced 2 gallons a day (of course I don't know what to believe based on what she said any longer). If Billy Jeans udder grows to even just half the size of her mothers, I will still be a very happy camper. I already knew they may not be as big since I didn't have a full blooded LaMancha to breed her with, but Snow White produced a good cup of colostrum with her first milking, if she could produce that much in colostrum alone, then Billy Jean should do the same or even better.

Liz, she does have only 2 teats, and although her udder isn't big yet, it's increasing. I can fill about a handful of "udder" above her teats, whereas before the area there was just a flat surface with two teats hanging from the skin. She's making an udder, but it's not big yet.

I read some posts about shaving this area, I do have a dog clipper I use on my dog, but I have no idea how to shave a goat. I didn't worry too much about shaving Snow White and Blue Eyes, their fur isn't as thick or soft as Billy Jeans. But I do forsee a problem with milking with all the fur Billy Jean has under her. She's got a full, fluffy, warm coat. Makes me feel like I am beside a cloud when she's sitting beside me.

As for her being sneaky about it, I think this time I will be sneaky lol. When she starts pushing more, or when I see some discharge, I plan to put my daughers phone in the greenhouse, on speakerphone, and call my phone, and just listen from the warmth of the house. No more sitting in the greenhouse, I will just listen, and make sure I can hear if she gives any calls of distress lol.

Hopefully all I will hear is new bleats from a happy, healthy kid.

I am having fun now that Snow Whites danger is over. I am finding it fasinating to watch Billy Jean, and find it fascinating that once I took the time to study the two, to see that Billy Jean is one hefty girl.

It almost makes me ashamed that I even bred Snow White, SHE now seems delicate when compared to Billy Jean! She has tall lanky legs, but her frame is so small in comparison.

A LaBoer, well that beats all, now I need to figure out who to breed her kid to if she has a doe. Billy is SUPPPOSED to be Nubian/Kiko, but now I don't know for sure what he is either :ROFL: . The only one I know for certain is Cowboy is 100% Boer, but if I breed him to the doe next year, if she has a doe, that means more meat than milk will be in the next kid.

Our plans are all shot now, we were going to breed Billy and Blue Eyes, until we got a black and white (from Billy) blue eyed (from Blue Eyes) kid doe for 4H, then try to breed that doe to Cowboy to hopefully one day get a solid white, blue eyed doe for 4H and maybe other shows.

I didn't even know if that would be possible, but this is what the kids wanted to try.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Maria...when you have chance to, take a look at some Boer breeders sites...and then check out some of the Standard Dairy breeders sites, you will see that Snow White is more of a dairy doe, she's supposed to have a "dainty" refined look, where as Billie Jean being half Boer will be much wider and stout due to the meat breed character. 
It's great to be able to relax and enjoy an impending delivery and I'm happy that you are in that state now, also..... a baby moniter works GREAT for listening in on goaties. I picked one up from a thrift store for 5 bucks a few years ago and it still works great..my barn isn't far from the house and even at 200 feet and going through 3 walls the reception is awesome.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you again Liz, I did a google images search of Lamancha / Boer to see images of other crosses, and now I see the similarities.

And yes, Snow White is "daintier", I just never thought to look at the frame, I always viewed my goats as taller is bigger.

I've been reading here in the forum like crazy, and after reading so many different experiences, I am beginning to think MAYBE Blue Eyes can be bred again IF I make sure she is bred to Billy. Billy is the runt, so maybe her delicate frame may need a smaller daddy. Maybe her problems were from her being bred by Cowboy. She's been in the pen, back to her normal self for sometime now. Just a bit of discharge still, not bloody, from what I have read, this is typical for a few weeks after birthing.

I plan to go outside after the rain stops and study her frame and Billys frame. since she didn't rip her uterus, maybe she can be bred again next year. I don't know how long one should wait before breeding again after kidding, but I think a good year should give her enough time to get over her trauma?

I know Snow White will not be chanced to go through this again, she's now going to be our main mower. All she has to do for the rest of her days, is eat shurbbery and enjoy a hopefully stressfree life.

Billy Jean is absolutely tickling me right now, before her belly dropped, I thought for sure she had triplets in there, she was so HUGE. Now that it has dropped and I can see her frame better, I am certain that the kid is going to come out with no problem whatsoever! It has way much more pelvic room than the other kids had!

She's still pretty big, but I won't go so far as to hope for twin does. A healthy kid will make me happy, twin does estatic, but I am not getting my hopes up too much.

I'll go look at breeder sites now, this has me fascinated. And it's given me a lot more hope, it looks like my luck is about to change for the better! Even if I don't get enough milk for the kids and soap, I'll just be happy to have a helthy kid for the children. And I'll make plans to find some goats from a more reliable source before spring kidding.

I tried looking for goat farms in GA, here in the forums, but have had no luck finding any. If I can't find any near me, I'll have to see about getting a camper shell on my truck, so I can go across state lines, I can go to Florida, Tennessee or Alabama if needed.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I went to do the last check for Billy Jean for the night, and to give Snow White her last shot, and Billy Jean seems to be loosing her plug, not entirely, but she had the tiniest bit of mucus on her vulva. It wasn't stringy and hanging way down like it did with Blue Eyes. Her ligaments are still loose, but can still be felt, so it's not exactly quite ready for her to kid just yet.

There's no difference in udder size, and no hard contractions so I plan to check her once more before bedtime, if there's more mucus, I will stay up longer just to monitor her, if not, I will check her again in the morning.

I don't think she'll have it tonight since I can still feel the ligaments, and since the mucus wasn't enough to get excited about. It was a small change, but from what I understand at fias farm website, this can happen a week or even a month before due, that the time to see it as "kidding soon" is when it's a long string of mucus, such as the type Blue Eyes had.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

hoping Billy Jean does well for you -- sounds like she still has some time left to go but hope she doesnt drag you along for much longer


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Newest Update: Not much change with Billy jean, very little discharge, but her udder is now a good handful and not just a handful. Ligs still there, not tight, but still there.

Snow White on the other hand, has become a HANDFUL. She is getting spoilt from the hourly checks lol. She'll sometimes bleat when I close the door after I check Billy Jean, or even when I just peek in, see all is well, and leave. She won't stop until I come back in and check her tail too, or pet her, or simply say "Hey Snow White, glad to see you up and about", then she'll start back chewing her cud or whatever she's doing. I think she's jealous that she's not getting all the attention anymore lol :ROFL: .


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

So, o glad Snow White is doing so well! Can't wait to see what Billy Jean gives you!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Sounds like you are gonna have a "pocket goat" on your hands, Snow White is definately one lucky girl!

Glad to hear that Billie Jean is doing well...you'll know when she's ready.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Latest Update: Billy Jean is getting closer to delivering. It may still be a few more days, I'm not sure. She's very restless, she keeps walking around in circles, licking her sides, lying down, then getting up to walk again.

Her tail was rising and then going back down, but today it's staying halfway up to all the way up, continously. She also has a "wild" look in her eye, not a calm as she is chewing her cud look, but more of a "what's happening" look.

Still very little discharge, and no additional udder growth. I can still feel her ligs, but they are so far gone that it's very hard to find them now.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

How is Billy Jean doing Maria? And of course IF she did drop baby's over the weekend we'd LOVE to hear about it. :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi Liz, She still hasn't kidded, but her udders are bigger, they are now half the size of what Snow Whites was when she was full.

Her back is arching up a lot more, and she's now walking funnier, but still very little mucus and nothihng major like distress or hard contractions.

I do plan to post pictures once the kid is here! I have been watching Billy Jean, and realizing that my biggest mistake was to not keep track and by letting the does run with the billys.

Blue Eyes and Snow White were both moved from the pen to the greenhouse, this must have caused stress. Because Billy jean, is happy, stressfree, and I notice she is "preparing" for the delivery by rubbing her sides on the wall, propping her front feet on a block and arching her back, and clearing out an "area" that she has taken a favor too. I suspect this is where she plans to have the kid.

If I had put the other two in the greenhouse sooner than I did, they probably would have been able to relax more, and adjust to the new area.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Great to hear that all is going well!! Theres alot to learn about goats, believe me, I'm still learning! Stress could have been a factor with Blue Eyes and SnowWhite but there are any number of things that could have caused their hard deliveries. Billy Jean sounds happy to be where she is...and don't be surprised if her chosen spot turns out to be a different one for kidding....new mama's can be picky!

Now...are you relaxed and calm?


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi Liz, Yes I'm relaxed and calm now, have had a good frame of time to calm down, and with each passing day, I thank God for healing Snow White. I don't puzzle about what was in her any more, I just see she's doing fine, and well, am thankful that this extra time has gotten her where she's now walking up to me wanting a hug or pet. Only Billy used to do that, my runt, the others only walked up if they wanted a treat, but never just to be petted lol.

I still go to the greenhouse about every hour, just to check on Billy Jean, and at night, I make my final check between 9 and 11 before going to bed. Sometimes I sit out there just watching her to see how they are both walking and acting.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Latest news, it looks like time is nearing even more! Billy Jean let loose a lot more mucus this morning, she is bleating, bahhing, walking so funny it's like she is trying to relieve pressure on her bones. Her udder is now about the size that Blue Eyes and Snow Whites were, it went "poof" overnight and is now two handfuls instead of one. It doesn't have that stretched look yet, but it's certainly a good sign that things are progressing more now! YIPEEEE! So I reckon there will be a new kid any minute to maybe a week or so from now!


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

:clap: great! when my does are bahhing and walking funny it's usually only a matter of hours. good luck!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Minibarn, another thing that "poofed" overnight was her vulva, it's now twice the size it used to be. I forgot to add that, I was surprised to see it had swollen up like a balloon too. The udders are now full enough to support a kid, even two if she has twins, so my worries about that are now for nothing.

I was surprised to see so much "poofing" in less than 24 hours lol, the only sign not to show yet is the waterbag WOOT! She's not having contractions much yet, although she does have that "stop chewing and stare" look, there is no pushing yet.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Real soon....can't wait.... :wink: :hi5:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

AWESOME!!!! Billy Jean will be delivering soon...I hope that she gives you 2 baby girls!!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

She is now panting very hard, I thought it got too hot for her in the greenhouse but it's only 85 degrees in there. The rabbits and snow white are not panting. Since I did not notice blue eyes and snow white doing this, is this normal or is it a sign of something being wrong?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

She could be too warm....85*, pregnant and furry is likely the reason. What's the outside air temp? Is there a way you can allow air flow, but not too much of a draft across the floor?

Be sure theres plenty water available and give her a good scratch on the head for me!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Liz, you were correct, it was the heat. I opened the greenhosue door, and blocked it with a narrow gate, and the goats have had a ball bleating with their heads sticking out. The greenhouse is right by my bedroom, it was funny to go check on them through my bedroom window. When I would say hello, they'd stick there heads out and bleat some more lol.

Still no kid, udder is filling well, not much more mucus, so she must be in the "beginning" stages of getting everything ready for the kid to emerge.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I check here every day to see how they all are doing....and anxiously waiting to hear of Billy Jean kidding!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Billy Jean has me ready to tear my hair out now lol. She has ALL the signs of kidding, except very little mucus still. Her ligs are gone I think, I can't find them today like I was able to find them yesterday. Her teats are leaking, her udder is still growing, she is pawing the hay to make a dirt patch, yawning, rubbing her side with her horn, bleating, biting her side, she's become very fidgity, yet still no kid lol.

She's also not having the back standing up contractions like Snow White and Blue Eyes had, although her back is arched. Her tail is also "broken" it hangs up, but leans to the side, as if she is tired of holding it up lol.

I know she'll kid soon, the wait is getting to me, I so hope she has settled in well and all her fidgiting has her ready to deliver this kid with no problems!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Wow...if her teats are leaking she must be pretty full! Usually once the udder is filled and the teats are plump they go within 24 hours.
I'm still praying she gives you twins! Healthy, happy and bouncy!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Liz they are leaking, the only thing disappointing is her udder is nowhere near as large as her mothers was, but oh well....live and learn.

I do plan to hopefully buy a milk goat already producing milk this spring, if I can find one for sale! Billy jean doesn't look like she'll be able to produce enough for soap, but there's certainly enough for her to feed her kid.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

She might surprise you, don't count her out just yet.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Latest update, still no kid, still not much in changes, I am not understanding what's taking so long. I'm still just patiently waiting for her to have signs of active labor, but am loosing heart at this point, I certainly hope she's not having difficulties also


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Great to hear from you Maria!

Well...no news is good news, sounds like she may have been bred later than the other 2 girls...I wouldn't rule that out at all. It is super hard to try and figure due dates with pen breedings, unless you actually witness the deed and can mark the calendar :wink:

If she's being her normal happy self, she'll be fine. :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Liz, yesterday was a bad day for Billy Jean. She kept butting Snow White, kept running up to the walls of the greenhouse and rubbing on them in what looked to be a "violent" manner, her eyes were wild, I thought she had gone crazy, it scared the crap out of me. When I saw her arch her back up until it hit a great big U, all four feet coming together, I realized that maybe this is the first signs of actual "active" labor and I calmed down a bit. I haven't see the long string of mucus yet, no water, so I figured maybe she was simply having a bad day. I watched her for 2 hours and didn't see the back arch like that again, figured she was just trying to get comfortable, and figured that she probably still has days to go.

I walked in on her going nuts, but after sitting with her, I realized she was just trying to get comfortable. She still has her nest that she pawed in the ground, but kept getting up, down, up, down, and would charge Snow White if she came near the nest. I guess I walked in on a charge lol.

I considered removing Snow White, but thought I'd let her stay simply because Billy Jean hates to be alone, and always bleats badly when I try to remove Snow White.

Billy jean did let Snow White near the nest once, Snow White went and pawed more hay away from the ground. I thought that was sweet, she was tryign to help, and Billy jean let her that time.

After seeing all of this, I left with the conclusion that Billy Jean was being a witch right now, with reason to be one, and that Snow White was being the patient friend saying "I know it hurts, I'm here if you need a shoulder to cry on".

Not once did Snow White try to charge back, she patiently walked away. I figured if she charged back, it'd be time to remove her for sure, but she's being very sweet and docile about Billy Jeans crankiness right now.

I checked them this morning, both were snuggled together in Snow Whites corner, so maybe they were just having a witchfest yesterday, I don't know lol.


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## Coyote Night Acres (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Have you been checking her ligs? Sounds like she's getting closer and the Ligs will let you know for sure when it's time. Good luck keep us posted


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

how's billy jean doing? any baby news yet? :whatgoat:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I hope all is well with you and your girls Maria :hug:


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

i just thot of your billy jean again. did she ever kid? hope you're enjoying bouncy new babies from her!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi everyone, I wanted to post an update. I do not know what's going on with my goats, Billy Jean STILL has not kidded. She's getting HUGE and HUGE and HUGE but no kid.

She was brought out of the greenhouse a couple of weeks ago, has been running freely in the yard and put back in her pen at night, I finally just figured if she is healthy, eating, and not feeling badly to just let her be. She was the one we noticed as pregnant FIRST, near the first of December. Blue Eyes had her kid at the end of December.

So technically it's been 3 months since we noticed she was pregnant, but since I have not conception date, all I can think is GEEESH she must have 3 or 4 kids in there!

She is still got the crooked tail, some days ligs are loose, some days not, still having a "discharge" but nothing to like blue eyes had when she kidded.

I'm just letting her enjoy her freedom, praying for nature to take it's course with no problems, and hoping that she delivers without problems, it's warm enough herein GA for the kids to survive. And yes, it has to be more than one, if it's just one then that kid is NEVER coming out.

Snow White on the other hand is flourishing, she has taken to where she likes to just walk quietly with me around the yard. She isn't as "chipper" as she used to be, but she is healthy, fat and content to just be with either another goat, or with a human. She's not depressed, she just seems "mellow".

The Billys are ticked, they are in the electric pen, they go all day seeing the girls eating their fill before they get to go out to the yard. I am keeping the seperated, and considering trying to find another girl that I know comes from good stock, that is 100% boer, so I can try for kids again.

Blue Eyes is happy, playful, chipper, her usualy houdini self escaping from the pen and running all over the yard. She's not gained all her weight back yet, but she's gaining slowy, and is very active. It's funny to see her boney self running down the yard with Billy Jean beside her with her good year times ten blimp belly.

I'm sorry I have not posted in a while, I am just taking each day as they pass, hoping she kids soon, and praying there will be no problems although I am concerned at her size now, her bones seem to be adjusting well. She may be short, but GEESH she sure is a stocky and strong girl!


----------



## Dunfactor (Dec 10, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi Maria,

Good to hear from you and that all is going well so far. :greengrin: I hope you have some healthy happy kids on the ground soon from Billy Jean.

It is so good to hear how well Snow White is doing too! Wonderful! :hugs:

Tracy


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I did a quick google search for udder development, since her udder was noticably bigger back on January 29, if this site is correct to say "udder" starts developing at 15 weeks (http://www.7mfarm.com/goat-health2.html) then 15 weeks would be 105 days, then add 40 days from when I noticed her udder getting good and large on Jan 29th, that would make today a VERY guesstimated 145 days.

I've added 2 photos of her taken today, one is a good shot of her udder, which is now 3 times the size Blue Eyes and Snow Whites were, and one of her belly, she is walking around the yard right now waddling like a big goose.


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Tracy, I have learned a lot during this years kidding season. So far Blue Eyes, if she will fatten up, will be tried again. She has recovered well. Billy jean, if she has no problems, will be tried again also, both of them NEXT year tho.

Snow White, I'm going to go buy her a kid one day if I have to, just so she can have an adopted one. Blue Eyes didn't change at all, Snow White seems to have matured alot after her ordeal. She and I have become very close friends, she's the only goat I have who is content to sit and browse around the pond as I fish, she will sit at my feet if I am outside just relaxing, she just seems to be so mellow and mature now, but not sad.

I have been clearing brush around the pond in the backyard. The pasture is a good half mile drive to get to the pond, the side towards the house has about 30 feet of brush blocking the pond from the yard. I have spent the past few weeks pulling that brush with the tractor, so my girls can have a good sized electric pen, closer to me, near the water. The Billys already have one I can enlarge as needed, they are not too happy to not be near the girls anymore, but they will get over it. I can't have Snow White getting pregnant again, she may not survive another pregnancy, and I have learned my lesson about knowing better about the due dates, that's a certainty lol.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

She is coming along - looks like she is carrying at least twins.

As to snow white I don't think she will adopt just any old kid. Most goats know who is theirs and they will butt away those that arent


----------



## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

glad to hear all is going well! hope you'll see new babies soon!


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

She's looking like any healthy doe would in late pregnancy...her udder though will likely get bigger when she's ready to drop...Praying \that she has a healthy delivery for you!


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you everyone. Stacey, I didn't think that maybe Snow White wouldn't want just any kid. Maybe Billy Jean will have a successful delivery then all three of the girls can enjoy having a tiny one running around with them.

Liz, her udder is surprising me. If she fills out any more, all my worries about not having any milk will have been for nothing. I'm still hoping and praying she has a problem free delivery. I'm just letting her enjoy herself and waiting for the day I walk out there and the kid is just "there" (fingers crossed). It's not cold, so the kid will survive if born outside, I just don't have the heart to put her back in the greenhouse. I went and purchased the black and decker shed plans book and I plan to build a better kidding / minik barn building this spring, so that there will be a better alternative for future kidding.


----------



## jduwall (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

which barn are you looking at?


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Jduwall I am hoping to build the one on page 211, the combined firewood and storage shed, without wood flooring but dirt flooring with lots of hay so there is one area for kidding and milking, and one as an open shelter from wind and rain.

Newest update on Billy Jean, still no kid but today she started passing a lot of white mucus, so I assume when it turns brown like Blue Eyes had, she'll be going into active labor??? She pass mucus weeks ago, but not like she is doing today, today there's a lot of it and she's walking with a "limp" like it hurts to walk. Her back has arched up more than usual also, and her vulva is kind of streteched to one side, it looks funny. Instead of the bottom part being in the middle, it's kind of hanging to the left as if it's being pulled a little by an invisuble string. I assume this means her bones are seperating and stretching that area in preparedeness for birth?


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Sounds like babies soon! The white discharge is the rest of her mucous plug, the "gimp" she has is likely from the kids lining up. Hows her udder looking? Full and tight yet?


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi Liz, Her udder is full and tight, definately bigger, but not "shiney" like I have seen in other photos of strutting udders.

I have been trying to figure out where to put her, in the old pen we used to raise pigs in, or move Rambo from the dog pen and put her there. It's too hot for the greenhouse.

Then I decided NAAAAH put Snow White and Blue Eyes in the pig pen, which is close enough where they can all see each other, yet seperated so Billy jean can have the regular pen all to herself. I figured it's best to leave her in the place she's already familar with, I don't wish to cause her ANY stress at all.

I know it could be a few more days, since I have not seen the long string of brown like blue eyes had, but at least there is definate progress now.

I've been praying about this birth for weeks now, and I have a very good feeling that everything is going to be perfectly OK for this one. I'm leaving this one completely in Gods hands lol.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

You certainly have a plan! And the peace you feel is good...It's good to know that if you feel good about an iminent birth then all will be well.


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Liz, todays update is Billy Jean now has diarrhea. Since Blue Eyes got diarrhea right before labor, I assume this is norm? Blue Eyes was tested for worms when the vet checked her, and since there wasn't a worm problem he didn't seem overly concerned. Billy Jeans stool was fine last night.

She's walking around a bit, but refusing to eat. Still just slight mucus, no long string and no contractions.


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I also forgot to mention the ligs are super loose. I can still feel them close to her body, but they are looser than they've ever felt before. I can reach around the tail almost completely now.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Some does tend to get soft poop right before and right after delivery...make sure she's drinking plenty, and if you have some Probiotic paste, give her some...yogurt with live cultures is good if you don't have the paste.


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Liz, she is drinking plenty of water but I didn't know to give her anything if her poo was soft. I will try to find probiotic paste, tractor supply is the only source I have around here. If there's none there I will get the yogurt.

I just got back from the field and her ligs are gone, completely. She's getting up and down and drinking water and eating from her feed, but she's ignoring her greens and hay I have put in the pen for her.

I am not going to get nervous with this one, it's warm, I will check her every hour, and just be there to comfort her when she starts the pushing part.

I do have a VERY good feeling about this birth, but Rissa, the lady who delivered Jasper from Blue Eyes, she is right down the road now (they came back to their farm now that it's spring so she's not 20 miles away as before, just 2 miles by road, 1/2 mile by woods away now) and told me to come get her day or night if I need her.


----------



## Dunfactor (Dec 10, 2009)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Sounds promising! I am looking forward to the pics of your healthy kids and momma. :thumb:

Tracy


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you tracey, I will post pics as soon as they are born!

Latest update, Billy Jeans ligs have been soft, hard, hard to feel for the past few days. Still mucus, but no kid.

Last night her ligs were almost non-existent, VERY hard to find. Today, I can BARELY feel them, they are so soft that it's difficult to even tell she ever had any.

Her poo is back to normal, hard dark green pellets.

Udders not shiny but definately still growing, it looks like she will have udders like her mama after all WOOT! If she does, she's the only goat I will need for milk, she'll have enough for her kids and my soaps!

Still waiting patiently, figuring the kid or kids will have to come out eventually lol.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

You will definately know when she's ready, I'm sure of it! She's lucky to have such an attentive goat mama!


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Liz, I do believe she's about ready! Last night she was streaming strings of white mucus, not amber yet, and rubbing her sides on the fence like crazy. We checked her every hour till about 2, then went to bed.

This morning there is a VERY noticable difference in ligs, udder and sides. The husband walked with me to check her and his first words as we walked out the door were "she had her kid" because she doesn't look as fat now. I ran down to the pen, saw that she was still pregnant, felt her ligs and about fell out. GONE completely, they can not be found at all! My fingers finally touched around her tail! Nothing but skin and fur as they touched, the difference was like WOW it's finally time!

Her udder is also getting a sheen to it, it's growing fast and furious now, the difference is very noticable.

I suspect she will have the kid either today or tomorrow, she can't wait much longer I'm certain of that. :clap: :leap:


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Kids soooon............. :thumb: :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Billy Jean still has not kidded yet, but there's definate progress. This morning I could feel her ligs, not much, but they were no longer like they were yesterday. I was a bit disappointed at first, until a few hours later I noticed her lying down and panting like crazy. It's not hot here right now, it's cloudy, cool wind, 68 degrees. I noticed her vulva was open as she was lying down, and figured I would check her ligs again, and they were "gone" again (maybe I was still half asleep this morning, I don't know, was up checking every hour till 2 then back up at 7 so I could have had a nightmare for all I know and thought I felt ligs again lol).

I checked her again a few minutes ago and she had the amber discharge that Blue Eyes had WOOT! Not a little bit, not white, not a white string, but the ONLY signs I KNOW are to check the ligs, and the brown stream, these are the things the vet explained and showed to me in person. The rest was from help on the phone (thanks again LIZ) and mostly what I have read.

I'd been not getting my hopes up TOO high until I saw the amber string, now that it's happened I am REALLY jumping for joy!

I still feel peace about this birth, I really don't think I will need to call for help, and the more Billy Jean progresses, the more I see things going "right" instead of "wrong" the happier I feel about this delivery. I'm certain God has heard and is answering my prayers, because only He knows how traumatizing the last two kiddings have been for me.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

It truly does seem that once we notice those very first signs of impending labor...it takes that much longer to see kids!

With the experiences you've had, I have confidence that you will know when she is truly ready to show you those kids. :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

You're right Liz, the days since January hwere fast, I figured if I saw no bigger signs, then just give her more time. Now it's like ARRRRRRRGGGGGGG I want to hold a baby :hair: ! lol

This morning the only change is her back is higher, but no kid(s). She is still still panting like crazy tho, it can't be due to the heat this time, it was very chilly this morning! Her ligs can't be felt still, so they didn't "come back" this time WOOT!

The husband left for work before the sun was up, and called to see if she'd had it. I told him no, he asked why I was sounding so happy about it and I said "I fell asleep last night, and was half afraid I would walk to the pen and see a dead kid again, there's no dead kid so I am HAPPY!".

I know I can't sleep in the pen with her every night while she goes through this. I slept in the greenhouse with snow white and blue eyes because they were in distress big time. Billy Jean is in no distress, she acts like she hasn't a care in the world lol. I look at her and go "GEEEEESH and she's the one as big as a whale, she should be bawling her lungs out"!

Her acting so calm and "normal" is really convincing me that I was taken for the fool I am when I purchased snow white and blue eyes. I hate it that people will actually prey on peoples ignorance.

I do hope and pray Billy Jean has a girl, if so, my milk goat worries are over, I'll have 2 milk goats and will be super happy!

Actually right now the situation is a bit funny. Billy Jean has the big and better pen all to herself (36 by 52 cattle panel pen), the boys are in the electric pen, and snow white and blue eyes stay in the 16 by 16 cattle panel pig pen (it was cleaned) at night, while grazing in the yard during the day. I imagine snow white and blue eyes hollaring at Billy Jean "Hey it's not fair! We had to go inside a greenhouse for days, and had that womans hand all in us, and here you are being treated like the Queen of Goats, all she does to you is touch your tail and walk off frowning, while you get to enjoy the big pen all to yourself" lol.

The husband isn't too happy about the grazing, the goats already ate one rose bush and got into the herb bed :ROFL:


----------



## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Newest Update: I don't know what to think right now, Billy Jean has not kidded yet. She is still passing white and amber dicharge, she is looking very skinny so the kid has dropped, she doesn't barely even look pregnant now but there's been no progress and the kid isn't moving now, I have not noticed it moving in 2 days now.

I will take her to the vets office on Monday if she hasn't had it by then. I suspect the kid or kids is probably dead, but won't know until the vet checks her out. If it or they are, I will have to have her put to sleep, I can't afford surgery.


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## Froggy (Feb 27, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

what day is she on? I don't know a whole lot about goat birthing & all, but I've heard of does going to 155days.

I really hope for you that she kids by this weekend with healthy kids! ray:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Without knowing an exact breed date, it's so hard to determine what is normally seen a few weeks before delivery or hours from delivery.

Maria... I know what you are going through, if you haven't felt kid movement, don't panic just yet. The closer they are to delivery, the less room they have to move around.
I know what a dead kid feels like in mamas belly, it's a sick feeling when you feel it.
What you need to do to ease your mind is to "bounce" her, stand behind her and face her head, wrap your arms around her belly and pull upward, letting her belly hit your hands underneath, if you feel a heavy brick hit the bottom of her belly and it only moves with you pushing it upward and it falls back, then you may need a vets assistance.
She may even be a bit further away from delivery than you think,the discharge is a normal occurance with does that are close to being due, softening of the ligs also occurs anywhere from 2 weeks before to the day of, her belly dropping usually indicates that the kids are lining up.

My doe delivered a stillborn last year...she went into labor normally, udder filled up and everything went normal, it was the 3 days prior to her going into labor that I knew her baby had died, it felt like I described above and I was just waiting for nature to take it's course.

I feel as though Billy Jean is just fine, and I think that the wait as well as the worry you have been feeling is catching up to you. Billy Jean will let you know if there is something wrong :hug: 
If at all she goes off her feed, runs a temperature or just isn't herself and has a nasty smell to her backside along with any pushing when she lies down, then you'll need to call your vet. Until then though, do as you have been doing with the TLC :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Hi Froggy, I don't know her due date, she and my other does ran with the Billys last year. I just recently separated them, I'm new to raising goats and well I'm learning some very hard lessons.....mainly don't let does and Billys run together lol.

Liz, thank you for the advice. When I bounce her, it doesn't feel like "dead weight" if that's what you mean? My daughter Mirial said she saw it move earlier, we were both sitting at her pen watching her, but I didn't have the heart to tell my daughter that she was viewing the "rumen" side.

I didn't bounce her hard, the kid doesn't feel "stiff", but I just can't feel it moving like it was. I didn't think that maybe it wouldn't have much room once it starts traveling up the birth canal. Billy Jean has definately changed, she's looking very skinny, she REALLY looks like she isn't even pregnant any more, just a bit chunky.

I know the books, goat websites and such say when this happens, it should be 12 to 24 hours yada yada (especially like the ligs and lot of discharge), the vet even said when the amber "rope" comes out, it should be within 24 hours, and it's been almost a week.

I wasn't too worried when I saw the kid moving, and saw that Billy Jean wasn't in any distress. Not seeing the kid move is what's got me concerned now.

Billy Jean on the other hand is acting as normal as usual. No temp, the discharge doesn't smell, no blood, no green discharge, nothing to indicate anything in her is "rotting". She's eating, drinking plenty of water and even plays when I let Snow White in the pen for company.

Maybe the experiences with Snow White and Blue Eyes were so traumatic and happened so fast, that I didn't realize that a healthy goat would go through the same things a human does, small signs bit by bit as the body slowly adjusts to get ready for the birth. It's just that Blue Eyes was screaming and in pain, and Snow White had hers out with no trouble, then had that trouble afters that I STILL don't know what she was trying to push out. I sometimes wonder if Snow White was injured by a Billy butting her and had hers prematurely, which is what caused the damage to her uterus, which could have made her feel like she still needed to push something out.

I'll keep waiting and praying, she will still go to the vet on Monday, or I will have the vet come here, but if yours delivered a stillborn, maybe even if the kid has died, maybe Billy Jean can still be ok. I just know I can't afford a C-Section if the kid is dead, but didn't think maybe she could still deliver it eventually. If she's in no pain, and if a heartbeat can't be found, I won't have her put to sleep, I'll give her more time and keep praying.

My husband said I needed to "check" her cervix and see if it's blocked. But I told him I can't go through that again, that so long as she wasn't in pain, I wasn't doing that again. The incident with Snow White had my whole right hand a huge scab for 2 weeks afters.....I guess the fluids in the body are a bit more toxic than the fluids in the uterus lol. It ate my hand up lol.

Thank you again Liz, today has been a horrible day. I have sat outside watching her most of the day, just hoping to see movement. I thought yesterday that maybe I was just going to check on her when the kid was asleep, but today, after still not seeing any moving, I did start worrying.

On the lighter side of things, Snow White is fattening up and turning into a real beauty. It's a shame she can't have kids now, but she's turning into a regular full-time family member. She's acting better than my dog, she loves to sit peacefully, doesn't butt like Billy does, doesn't care to wander off like all the others and will now even follow me when I say "come on, let's walk". I never knew a goat could become as devoted as a dog, but she certainly has!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I really wouldn't worry about the kid not moving. At all. Milky Way's kids stopped moving altogether about a week and a half before she kidded. I couldn't feel a twitch, kick, twist or anything. I swore up and down they were dead, but they both came out alive happy and healthy. When someone says they probably have no room to move, they mean it, especially with her looking as dropped as you say she does.

The only time I think you need to worry about it is when you see "for real" contractions and nothing's progressing, and you can't feel anything. Until then, just try to relax and think happy thoughts about everything.

(Also-my doe Jenny had yellowish white mucous discharge for nearly 2 weeks straight-including several that looked like labor "ropes". Some does will just produce more and different discharge than others. Milky Way had no discharge at all)


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you for telling me this MixedBag, a week and a half with no movement is encouraging, especially when your kids were born alive! I will remain positive and will refrain from calling the vet unless she starts showing signs of distress.

As for contractions, she's not pushing, and she's not having hard contractions like Blue Eyes and Snow White had. Occasionally she will arch her back, look startled, then swing around and try to bite her butt. I don't know if those are contractions, but the look on her face sure gets me tickled lol. She'll be eating all peaceful and content, then suddenly back up, head whooshes around, she tries to bite her butt, can't reach it, and will walk around shaking her rump until the back arch goes back down.

Those just started about 2 days ago also, but they are not very frequent. I've seen it happen about 4 times so far.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

It's probably just her stretching to get everyone into position.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread ~ She Kidded!!!!*

Your were right it appears MixedBag, she's still been doing that occassionally, but today there was a noticable difference.

My husband asked me what was wrong with Rambo my dog, told me she was going crazy. Rambo only goes "crazy" like that when Rissa and her family are riding the horses from the pasture to the road. The only one other time Rambo went crazy like that was when Snow White had her kid. I thought she was just being ornery and ignored it, then found the kid 3 hours later dead 

Well today when the husband told me Rambo was going crazy, I ran out the door to see if it was horses or goat calls. When she did it when Snow White was in labor, the other goats were bleating like crazy also. Today, the goats are bleating like crazy, and well Billy Jean, she's bleating like crazy, and having noticable contractions where the arch of the back goes WAY up.

The exciting "change" today is one that CAN'T be mistaken. Her vulva is stretched ALOT. It's been baggy and sagging for months now, with it being really sagging a lot the past few weeks, it looks like the pelvis bones have stretched the skin to where it's almost taught, her butthole is now going "in" a lot when she poops. I've never seen it do that before, I can only assume this means it's getting REALLY close to kidding time.

Still not much shine on the udder, not a lot of mucus, but the change in that area and the fact that she's arching her back way up like Blue Eyes and Snow White did, and bleating like crazy has me very excited.

I don't know if she will have contractions for days or what? But it's nice to finally see some sort of additional progress. :leap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

you will see the sinking in look as she has small contractions too.

good luck -- hope all goes well for you


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Praying for a Happy Kidding........ ray: :hug:


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## Coyote Night Acres (Dec 27, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Prayers for easy kidding. Good luck


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

If she's having hard contractions, it shouldn't be more than a few hours (hard contractions as in back up, tail up, concetrating look, etc.).

Of course, remember, every doe is different. If it helps, go in and see if she's dilated at all. I did when I thought things weren't progressing fast enough (ok, I just wanted her to get done before I went to work...) and lo and behold-feet! Her udder wasn't full, either, but it did seem like it had exploded overnight.

Things should go easy for you, and it shouldn't be much longer at all!


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Update: There is still no kid, Billy Jean is still acting fine, no distress, eating and drinking fine. Her sides are so hollow that she looks almost starved, her backbone is in an "arch" most of the time now, but she's not pushing, and not having hard contractions right now. I'm just waiting still, I figure something has to give eventually.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I know the wait is torture....she must not be quite there yet...Happy kidding to you.... hang in there.. :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Well...you know she's pregnant, and though the wait is torture as Toth said, she's being a normal pregnant doe. All will be fine, she will let you know IF there is a problem... :hug:

These are going to be some extremely popular kids! Hope that you get the udder on Billie Jean that you saw with her mom :hug:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Thank you Pam and Liz, still no kid/s but her ligs have "stayed gone" all day, not the almost completely gone, almost back again that's been going on the past few days. I can't feel them at all, not at the spine, not towards the middle of the tail, not anywhere so MAYBE this time they will stay gone and the kid/s will come out lol.

She's still eating, drinking and acting normal so I am just waiting. I did go read Deuteronomy 7:13-14 to her this morning. She seemed to like it, she ripped the paper out of my hand and ate a bit of it before I had time to snatch it back lol.

Also, the kid is still alive, I saw it moving earlier today, so maybe it's just taking it's slow sweet time to go through the birth canal. I still hope there are 2 in her, but she's dropped into something so skinny, if there's 2, I don't see where she's putting them lol.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

I got up to check on Billy jean this morning, and noticed a VERY hard contraction, and her udder had POOOOOOOFED BIG TIME Evidently she had been in labor all night, because 10 minutes later water gushed out, and I saw a hoof not long afters.

20 minutes after that 2 hooves and alf the head was out. I called Rissa and she told me to gently pull the legs when she pushed, I did, and the kid came right out!

She has cleaned it (I let her bond for about 30 minutes), I have put iodine on it's cord, am about to feed it colostrum. It's in the house getting warm now, it was shivering like crazy so Rissa said get it inside to warm it.

Billy Jean has a bag of water hanging from her vulva like a big balloon, I don't know if this means another kid or not, but for now Billy Jean is walking around, eating with the water bag hanging, with a push here and there. I am about to go back out and check on her again, I just popped in to post the update.

I think it's a Doe, but can't tell, she has big flabby things on her belly, they are not by the legs like Jasper had (he was a boy) so I don't know, do does have flabs where the udder should be? I thought does had smooth tummies.


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

yay!! congrats! look for a 2nd hole under her rectum. 2 holes is a doe. 1 hole(rectum) is a buck.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

The afterbirth has passed, the kid is in the living room guzzling from it's bottle like crazy, and WOW the difference in deliveries is AMAZING!

Billy Jean sure kept me waiting, but once she got down to business, everything was textbook PERFECT. I'll get some photos soon, the kid is healthy, and acting all rowdy lol. I can tell the difference between how it's acting and how Jasper acted. This one is so full of spunk, it's a trip!

Thank you Carolyn for the tip, I will go see how many holes it has.

Also, I milked colostrum from Billy jean, WOWOWOW talk about an abundance, she was letting itout like crazy, not like snow white and blue eyes did. Obviously the other two WERE from bad stock, because Billy jean, the more expensive one, is doing everything perfectly and in order.

And bless her heart, she didn't scream or bleat too badly once. She handled it like a true champion! All I had to do was one lil pull, and out it came. I am going to go break down and cry now, we have a bottle baby, and I'll have PLENTY of milk for the baby and my soaps. Billy jean is so HUGE right now, her udder REALLY strutted like BAM!


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

wow! that is so awesome! I'm so happy for you!


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## jglfainters (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

Congrats on the new baby! Can't wait to see pics and hear if it's a boy or girl. Glad she's giving you lots of milk


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Billy Jean Kidding Thread*

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!! I am so very happy that everything went well...I knew it would!

Oh those flabby things on the baby goat are her teats....and if theres nothing hanging in between them...IT'S A GIRL!!

Billy Jean will be crying for her baby, especially since she was allowed to bond and clean her....Milk her no less than twice a day(every 12 hours is ideal) as you don't want her to be too overfilled and uncomfortable, Also, make sure she has plenty warm molasses water and you can increase her grain to keep her production going.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Well, it's a boy! :leap: :leap: Only one hole, but he has three buds for teats...that's odd, lil things about the size of rice, 2 on one side, 1 on the other lol.

I wanted a girl, but he's so spunky and so full of fun that i don't care lol. And the kids don't care, they are having a time watching him. The children named him Jasper after the first Jasper that died, I think that's very touching and sweet.

I don't know much about show goats for 4H, but I do plan to get him dehorned and castrated, we don't need another Billy, and he's a, um, very unique looking fellow. He may not win any ribbons for looks, but he may for personality lol.

Billy Jean has definately bonded well with him. She has been bahing softly the whole time he was out of the pen, when we took him back out to her, she heard him from across the yard and was trying to tear down the fence to get to him! She went crazy with her bleating and trying to climb the fence lol. 

He's with her now, he's walking, it's warm right now outside. He won't suck her teat but he's drank about 10 ounces of colostrum so far from the bottle. 

I want him to drink from her too, but if he doesn't, that's ok too. There are enough children here where there's plenty of "help" in feeding him lol. 

Liz, I do plan to milk her at 8 in the morning and 8 at night. I may up it to 3 times a day at the rate her udder is producing, it's making milk like crazy! I went and got some organic olive oil, already have organic oats, honey and palm oil....as soon as the colostrum stops coming out, I'll be making my first batch of "Completely Organic Billy Jean Soap" lol. The first batch is mine all mine, i am going to be stingy with it. But at the rate she is milking, she already produced enough "milk" for two batches of soap, in just one day! I only need enough for one batch a week!

It's been stressful the past few months, I almost gave up hope. But this kidding makes all the work and heartache very worthwhile. 

I won't be buying another Doe, me and the husband talked, and he said now that the kid was born with no problems, he suggested moving both Billy and Cowboy to the 25 acre pasture with the horses, so they can run free until needed for their stud services.

We'll be fencing in about 3 more acres in electric fencing for the girls, and Jasper, well, I have to figure out how to get him castrated so he can stay with the girls, if I can't figure it out, I will put him with the boys once he's older. I didn't want or need another Billy, BUT, I have my milk, and the children now have their bottle baby, so it looks like Jasper is hear to stay (mommy is a big softy, besides, who wouldn't fall in love with that face :ROFL

Thank you EVERYONE for your help, advice, encouragement. Now that the last kid is born, hopefully I can spend more time in other areas of the forums, learnign more about raising goats. First thing to learn, castration, do it myself...or pay the vet lol.


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Oops that was the wrong photo, that was for facebook lol, in that one Billy Jean was screaming "Don't you DARE take my boy from me again" :ROFL: 

Here's the better photo lol.


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Too Cute!!! Love the marking's!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awwwww! Congrats! He's so cute! I love his color, and the markings on his legs! So glad she had an easy time of it, and you can sit back and enjoy him! Keep trying with the nursing, he'll pick up on it, from my experience of 6 kiddings, some take longer than others to figure it out. I've had one that I had to check on for 3 days to make sure she was latching on...silly babies


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Awwwww  He's definately colorful!!! So glad she had a textbook delivery too :hug: 

Looks like he'll have ears that are "in between" ....I think they would be called "Elf ears" .


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Thank you everyone. I'm beginning to see that "maybe" a whole pasture full of goats would not be to my best interest. I get attached so quickly lol. Jasper has been a great joy today, he's a HOOT lol. And LOUD lol.

Right now he's running all over the living room, I think he's found his favorite corner near the TV also, that's where he goes to lie down and nap lol.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats wonderful that you all are enjoying him!! Glad to hear that he's being a healthy and normal baby!

Be careful though with the repeated taking him to mom and away from mom, she'll not only be stressing each time he's removed but you do run the risk that she will reject him totally.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Aww congrats! He's so cute! Sounds like he'll make a very friendly wether! Maybe a future pack goat or cart goat in the making???


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Thank you Jess! A pack goat would be nice, but I don't know if he'll get very big. He looks like Billy is the dad, but since I don't know if Billy or Cowboy is the dad, he may grow into a nice big fellow that can be trained to pull a cart or carry a pack!

Liz, I kept him indoors last night, this morning he latched onto his mama and drank like crazy! He's outside with her now, not shivering, not cold, running and jumping. He obviously likes outdoors better than indoors lol.

Is it safe to leave him with her at night also? Blue Eyes and Snow White is back in the pen with her, will she keep them from hurting him and keep him warm at night?

The temps drop down to about 40's at night right now, I don't know how cold is too cold for a newborn kid.

I milked her at 8 on the dot this morning, AFTER Jasper drank his fill, I still got a good half a cup of milk from her! I will milk her again tonight at 8. I still saved this milk for Jasper, it's thinner and whiter, but still has a tint of yellow so I figure it still has colostrum in it too, and I want Jasper to drink all of the colostrum.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

40s isn't to cold for a kid so I would leave him with her. If you think he is cold put a sweater on him. 

Congrats glad all went well this go around.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow...40* at night? Lucky you!! He'll be just fine with his mom, thats great that he'll have the best of both worlds too...mama to raise him and you and your family to help and enjoy him!! 

I think he'll end up being a pretty big boy too!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Too cute..... :thumb:


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

:leap:


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Thank you everyone! I'll let Jasper stay with his mom at night too then, she does go crazy if he's out of her site. The husband took me to tractor supply today and treated me to enough materials to fence in 2 more acres for the girls, and 1 acre for the boys (Jasper stays with the girls). His only stipulation was that I don't give up on raising goats. I had told him Billy Jean would determine if I gave up or not, she had no problems, is going gaga with milk, naaaaah, we'll keep them all.

He also offered to buy me 2 more girls to make up for blue eyes and snow white not having kids, if I let him have Billy (he now wants a goat too lol), so I am going to be looking to buy 2 does once we get the extra acreage fenced in.

We got half the fence posts up today, should finish the other half tomorrow, then spend the week running the wire. The boys fencing will be insulators screwed into the pines, from what I read pine was ok for the boys, but not the girls, so the girls are going in the area that is sweet gum and privet. We'll be able to expand this over 20 acres, doing 1 or 2 acres a year, to where hopefully one day we'll have a good herd going. We have a total of 112 acres here, he's giving me free reign over the 20 on this side of the pond for the goats :leap:


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

awww! Jasper is so cute! I love his markings! Good luck with expanding!


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Such a cutie patootie! Congrats!


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## SandStoneStable Farm (Dec 8, 2010)

YAY Congrats!
I'm so glad Billy Jean kidded well for you and it sounds like Jasper is a little joy for everyone!
Glad to see the good news


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## Maria (Jan 11, 2011)

Thank you again everyone! Today the whole family pitched in and we finished the fencing! The girls are having a blast roaming their new "mini" pasture, we have it at about 2 1/2 acres. The boys are in the girls old pen for now, we extended the small electric area into the bigger one, so the boys have to stay in the girls pen until we finish their acre. 

The lady up the road gave me a tip that saved me a ton of funds, using the doughnut insulators on trees, and using T-Posts or the fiberglass posts in between to prevent sag. So the boys will have more than an acre, the insulators are super cheap, and we have enough wire left to run them maybe 2 acres also, I know they will love that!

The old cattle panel pen will be moved to another area for "breeding" and where we plan to put the "kidding barn". 

Jasper slept well last night. When we went to check on him this morning, it was the SWEETEST sight! Billy Jean was sleeping outside the shelter, like she was "guarding" the entrance. Blue Eyes and Snow White had Jasper snuggled up gently between them, like they were keeping him warm. It was so touching, I wish I could have gotten a photo of it!

Today he ran and played all over the place, he found a "hole" (the tractor dug a hole where we pulled the privet to make room for the fencline, it's about 1/2 foot deep) that he likes to play hide and seek with his mama with, it is so hilarious. She'll be eating, he runs to the hole, ducks down, and watches her. Eventually she notices he isn't by her side and she starts bleating softly like she's calling him. Then he jumps up and bounces over to her, then does it all over again lol. 

The children are outside right now watching him play, just seeing the smiles he's bringing the children makes all the hard work and heartache worth it. They have waited a long time to have baby goat to watch and play with, and to have 2 die on them, they didn't seem to "enthused" about this one, they all said they didn't want to get their hopes up again. Now that they have seen him make it through his first day and night, and seeing him running instead of wobbling, they have accepted that he's healthy and going to make it :leap: 

The round insulator thingies are a Godsend to learn about. We have 5 acres already fenced in with barbed wire, I told my husband that I am going to put those round thingies on the posts already out there on those acres, and be working on getting it ready for when it's time to move the girls to bigger pasture, which will probably be about 2 years. I wasn't looking forward to buying enough T-Posts to redo those 5 acres lol.


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