# 8 month old can't stand up or walk



## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Hello I am new to this forum and would like some advise on my goat:crazy: Gordo. Gordo is 8 months old. He was born healthy and until around a month ago all was fine with him. I started noticing that he would fall eaisly and was not running at all anymore. I went on line and started reading about weak legs. Well, the first thing I thought was selenium deficiency being that we live in Florida and are soil is very deficient in selenium. I treated him with BOSE and I also treated him for copper deficiency. His fur had some discoloration and was kind of rough. His fur is looking better. But he is not doing well in his walking. I took him to the Vet (they don't know much about goats) but they ran blood work and gave him IV fluids and and anti inflammatory shot and antibotic shot. He didn't have fever. Blood work came back good. No anemia, no liver problems, kidneys good, no sign of cancer.......the only thing was his protein level was a little high. Apparently it was due to him eating Peanut Hay which turns out to be too rich for goats. He is now eating O&A which is less rich. I then read about deer worms. So I asked the vet and she said that she thought it was either selenium deficiency or deer worm and being that the BOSE didn't make a difference we should treat him for deer worm. So I gave him SafeGuard (which is the best to treat deer worm) for 7 days and I started give him B-Complex too. He started doing better. He was walking longer distances and was more alert. I was so happy But today Gordo couldn't get up. He still eats and drinks water, but can't get up at all. He tries and he falls. I get him up and hold him and make him walk little steps, but the poor baby just keeps falling down. He was doing better and today this So my question is does anyone out there know or have experience something like this in their goat. What else beside selenium or deer worm can cause weak legs. I am going crazy here. I feel so bad for my Gordo and I don't want him to looose him. Any advise will be appreciated. Thank You!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I have not had any experience with deer worms, but take a look at this article. It deals specifically with Meningeal Worm Infection as a result of deer worms. I so hope it helps!

Crap! It would help if I posted the article! Sorry about that.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/meningealworm.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

WHile reading your post meningeal worm came to mind (deer worm)...perhaps treating longer for it will be needed since he went a while without the treatment..From my understanding Ivomec plus followed by safe guard is the chosen treatment for meningeal worm....here is a quote from tennessee meat goats..



> Treatment involves very high dosages of Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent. Ivermectin paste or pour-on are not effective. Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent is recommended because if snails or slugs are present, so may also be liver flukes, and Ivomec Plus will handle both conditions at the same time. Ivomec Plus should be given at a rate of 1 cc per 25 pounds bodyweight for at least seven days, followed by a double-the-cattle dosage of fenbendazole (Safeguard/ Panacur) for five days. (Jeffers carries both dewormers.) Dosing too low means that the deerworm continues to do damage. Enough medication needs to remain in the goat's system so that the blood-brain barrier can be crossed in order to kill the larvae that have already penetrated the spinal column. If the goat is down and can't get up on its own, the chance for recovery is not good. An anti-inflammatory drug like Banamine can be useful in alleviating the inflammation of nerve tissue. Dexamethosone should also be used if paralysis is present, dosing at approximately 8 cc per 100 lbs bodyweight and stepping down one cc per day. Dex should be given into the muscle (IM). If the sick goat is a pregnant doe, use the dexamethasone and let her abort, because she isn't likely to survive if she is trying to grow fetuses while fighting this disease. If the producer is concerned about using Dexamethasone and Banamine at the same time, then use the Dex and forget the Banamine. When symptoms are found in one goat, the producer should either treat the entire herd or watch everyone closely daily for symptoms and begin treatment immediately if discovered.


I think I would begin treatment again, following these guidelines....continuing b complex as a support..


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you both for your reply. Is there any other disease that can cause these symptoms? I read something about joint ill????


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Cathy he doesn't show signs of liver fluke....he has no fever, no anemia and no bottle jaw. Should I still give him the Ivomec Plus? And if so can I give it to him orally not injected as I know it burns like crazy and I don't want to make him go thru anymore discomfort. Thanks


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

WOw..I was answering your post and thought I sent it to another thread..went bonkers for a minutes lol...need to re write it lol sorry 

On joint ill ...usually caused by bacteria entering through the new wet belly button of a new born..but I recenty found it can also be caused by a goat battling a bad a bacterial infection such as pneunomia...bacteria enters the blood stream and causes swelling and pain to the joints..sometimes attacking the bladder and kidneys...

I would feel around and see if this is the case...but I would still begin treating for Menigeal worm...Ivomec plus should be injected to be effective against menigeal worms..it needs to cross the brain barrier to work..To make it less painful..do sub q in theloose skin where the kneck meets the body ( learned that here ) before you injected wiggle the area alot to confuse the nerves : ) inject then wiggle some more...the sting only last a second or two...


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Joint Ill would be accompanied by swollen, hot to the touch knees usually, as well as a swollen, hot naval. Joint Ill usually shows up way before 8 months of age. What your describing doesn't sound like joint ill. Plus, if it were joint ill, it should have shown up in the blood work it sounds like your vet did as an elevated white blood count due to infection.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

For Joint ill...Baytril ( daily for five days) and Banamine( daily for three days) are the best team to battle it...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What dosage did you give for the Safeguard? The liquid should be dosed at 1cc per 7 lbs for M Worm. I like to follow up in 2 weeks and do another round if I truly believe they have it.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Cathy you are great...thank you so much. I will keep you posted on his progress. Please send a little prayer his way. Thank you again.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Prayers sent


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Here is a thing about BO SE, if you also give them a vitamin E pill (just like the ones you would take that are soft gel like) it helps the bo se work better. Vitamin D is also a good idea to give at this time.

You can place the soft gel in the corner of your mouth to soften it and then just squeeze it into the corner of their mouth and it should pop. Leaving you the soft gel material to throw away. Easier this way cause goats like to spit pills out.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Hello ksalvagno: I gave 6cc of safeguard for 7 days....his weight is 44lbs. Maybe I should give more???? The last treatment was on Tuesday the 9th.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

I treated him with BOSE for 3 days. This was about 2 1/2 weeks ago. Should I give him the vitamin E & D pill now? What is the vitamin D good for? Thanks


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Vitamin D is what allows the body to process calcium. You should follow the recommended doses on any medicines. Randomly giving medications can be just as harmful to a goat as the sickness itself.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How is Gordo doing ?


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

He is pretty much the same Cathy. Today I spoke to the vet and she is ordering the Ivomec Plus for me, but she doesn't think he has liver fluke but like she said it won't hurt to try it. Should I treat him again with the safe guard? Tomorrow makes a week that I stopped giving it to him. Today he got another anti-inflammatory shot. Let's see how is tomorrow. Still eating and drinking. Thank you for caring....TC


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you I will look into the vitamine D. Yes, I agree with you I don't like to give too many medicine, but if its the deer worm I need to treat it aggresively...so they say. Thanks again.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im glad you are able to work closely with your vet...Ivomec plus is easily picked up at a local tractor supply as well..


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Yes, I tried Tractor Supply and all the other feed stores in my area and none of them had it. Some said they carry it, but ran out


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

re reading your posts..I think I would do another round of Safeguard...from what I remember about deer worms is if its bad it can take longer..also not using enough wormer will still allow the worms to multiply...I would follow the recommended dose on the article I posted for him and go another round see if he don't improve..I always like to give B complex as a support vit.  Best wishes


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes the 6cc was good. I would even do 6.5cc just because his weight would work out to be 6.2cc. I would stick with the 1cc per 7 lb dosage.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you Cathy & Karen for your advise. I will do another round of safe guard starting today. And once the Ivomec Plus comes in I will give him a shot of that. I really don't believe he has liver fluke, but I will do the Ivome anyway just in case. I will keep you guys posted on his recovery. Please send prayers his way. My poor baby... he has such a will to live


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can do a home made fecal test for liver fluke..Goathiker shared this idea...place a few goat berries in a square piece of gauze and twist it shut ( she said like a gross hershey kiss lol) float that in.. a cup of water over night...liver fluke larve and worms will swim to the surface...no swimmers, no liver fluke : ) no liver fluke, no Ivomec plus


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

The Dexamethasone is needed to help with any inflammation the worms are causing to the nervous system. If M worms are what is causing his problems, then you need something to help fight the damage they are doing and have done. Safeguard alone will not kill the M worms. You need the Ivermectin.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok from what Lottsagoats said I didn some more reading, and found she is correct.. not that I doubter , just wanted to see where I misread ...
Ivomec *PLUS *is recomended by tennesseemeatgaots because liver fluke can be present where MW is present... so using the "plus' covers both LF and MW which run in the same crowd so to speak...instead of just Ivomec (without the Plus) there for covering two problems in one medication..Ivomec is needed either way...


> Treatment involves very high dosages of Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent. Ivermectin paste or pour-on are not effective. Ivomec Plus or generic equivalent is recommended because if snails or slugs are present, so may also be liver flukes, and Ivomec Plus will handle both conditions at the same time. Ivomec Plus should be given at a rate of 1 cc per 25 pounds bodyweight for at least seven days, followed by a double-the-cattle dosage of fenbendazole (Safeguard/ Panacur) for five days.


here are a few more quotes and links : )



> Ivermectin is most effective against larval stages prior to their entrance into the spinal cord, since it does not readily cross the blood-brain barrier.1


http://goatconnection.com/articles/publish/article_126.shtml



> Treatment involves very high dosages of injectable ivermectin. Ivermectin paste or pour-on are not effective. Injectable Ivomec should be given at a rate of 1 cc per 55 pounds bodyweight for at least three days, followed by a double-the-cattle dosage of fenbendazole (Safeguard or Panacur) for five days.


http://www.goatworld.com/articles/worms/meningeal.shtml

so in a nut shell..Yes use the ivo. plus : )


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the info, but I see that in one article says 1cc per 25lbs and the other says 1cc per 55lbs...so which is it? His weight is 45 lbs. And one more questions.....can I give it to him orally? Giving him injections of Ivomec Plus which I know burns like fire for 5 or 7 days worries me, because he feels bad enough as it is. Thanks once again


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

that is confusing...I think I would give the 1 cc per 55# at least 3 days as the aritcle suggested, see how he does with that then decide if a few more days is needed.. and it does have to be injected  it needs to be able to pass the brain barrier and oral will not do it..Im sorry..poor guy but he has a very loving caretaker to get him through it...make sure to wiggle skin very well inject then wiggle some more...the best place I find is where the kneck meets the body..lots of skin there..

Note: since he is only 45 pounds I would still do the 1 cc...


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks Cathy..I guess I'll give him 1 1/2 for 3 days and thn the safe guard for 5 days. I hope this works. I just want him to at least be able to stand up and walk around with the others. I will keep you posted. He is still eating and drinking thank God.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Goat doses are usually more then whats listed as that is usually the cow dose. Id do a little more research before I did it though


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like a good plan Mimi... when an exact diagnosis is not had, you have to begin treating for the "could be's" ..Its all we can do because so many illnesses act like eachother...but you are doing a great job with him...and leaving no stone unturned... hes in good hands...best wishes


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

This is my Gordo


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you guys


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh my goodness..hes a doll!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Ivomec doesn't pass the blood brain barrier at all. It is used to get the larva before it passes the blood brain barrier. Safeguard does pass the blood brain barrier and that is why you have to use both with M Worm.

Your little guy is adorable and I hope he starts walking for you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thank you Karen..Guess I better do more reading...I understood it the other way..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, I saw my fair share of alpacas with M worm. Luckily not my own but learned not to mess with any type of back leg weakness when you can't explain it. The faster the treatment, the better chance of survival.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you so much for all the info you guys have provided. Today I start the Ivomec Plus I will treat him for a few days and then do the safe guard for 5 days. Let's hope it works. He actually got up this morning a couple of times and walked a few steps.....that makes me happy and hopefull. I will keep you guys posted.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Please start the safeguard now. He really needs the safeguard more than the Ivomec if it is M worm. He also needs some Banamine or Dexamethasone for swelling of the spinal cord.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

spent the most part of the last evening reading on M worm....lots of different opinions out there but Karen has dealt with M worm and experience always out weighs articles 
here is one of the most detailed articles that makes the best sense to me..Written by Dr David Anderson DMV
http://goatconnection.com/articles/publish/article_126.shtml
I hope it helps with your treatment of Gordo : )


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Cathy after reading the article you sent me I am wondering if I should do another shot of the BOSE. Remember I gave him 3 shots of it and that was it....I wonder if selenium has something to do with his weakness too.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Karen he got a shot of Dexamethasone on Monday. This morning he was ablet to stand by himself and even took a few steps. Should Dex be given everyday? The vet didn't mentioned anything about using it everyday.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Over doseing Selenium is too risky ..You could give the vit E safely but I wouldnt give more BoSe...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I have only used Banamine so I don't know the protocol on Dex.

I agree on no more BoSe for now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

according to Dr David Anderson, he recommends useing Dex for three days straight.....Dex needs to be weened off ..decreasing 1/2 cc - 1 cc IM per day until done


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Ok so I will buy some vitamine E and give him that as well...thanks Karen.

Cathy that's what I thought, but my vet didn't say anything about giving it to him again. She gave it to him when I first took him in and then this past Monday. Maybe thats why he started walking after he was treated at the vet and probably after the effect of the Dex was gone he was down again. I am going to try and get of hold of her today and see what she says. He is down again today....tries and tries to get up but keeps falling


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If it is M worm, you have a long road to recovery. Have you started the Safeguard yet? You need to get him up and walking on a regular basis. Several times per day.

I took care of 2 alpacas that had M Worm. They were at my place for over 3 months recovering from M worm enough that they could go back into their herd without being knocked over. I had to go out every couple hours daily to help them up on their feet. They had to be confined to a pen so they could walk around and hit the pen walls to help them get around.

You have no idea how sad it is to watch recovery let alone watching them go downhill from it.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Yes, I started the safe guard today. The Ivomec Plus came in today and I am not sure if to wait on giving it to him until I finish the 5 days of safe guard. What do you suaggest. It rains here every single day. Today its been non-stop. I tried walking him this morning a little and I will try again tonight. It is really difficult because he keeps falling....his front legs give out on him and he can't even stand. He almost poked my eye today. Thank God I moved quickly and he got me on the side of my face instead. I think I need to buy some type of harness to be able to get him up. Thank you so much for your advise. Please let me know about the Ivomec Plus. I will let you know how he does tomorrow.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think I would do the safe guard first..then ivomec plus...
I think a sling would be a great idea...If you google "a sling for a goat" you will see tons of ideas to make one..basically you just want to support his underside so he doesnt tilt one way or the other..he should be on his feet with some weight on them..I readone person took an old lawn chair and removed the webbing and used it for a frame...depending on how big he is..that could work..
Also moving his legs while he lays is helpful...working the muscles...
as karen said..its a long long recovery road...but as long as he is eating drinking alert and willing....he has a good chance..you are doing a very good job with him...


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you Cathy you have been so kind and helpfull. Yes, I also think that eating and drinking is a good sign. He has a very strong will to live so hopefully he will. I am trying my best....I do it alone so its very hard and overwhelming. My husband is working all day and my kids are never home so that leaves me. I don't mind because I love him so, but its not easy. I will look into the sling. I will let you know in a few days how he's doing. TC and thanks girl


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

your welcome...best wishes


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## salama7alenzi (Jul 7, 2013)

Injectable antibiotic AMOXYCILLIN


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Salama7alenzi thank you for your advise....If I am treating for Meningeal Worm is the Amoxycillin going to help. When the vet checked him out he had no fever.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would just do the Ivomec Plus after. You probably could do them at the same time but I don't think it will hurt anything if you wait.

The antibiotic mentioned above will do nothing for M worm.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you Karen. I am going crazy reading everything about goat diseases. Now I read about CAE and it scared the crap out of me. What if this is what my Gordo has??? His mom is very healthy and so are the other 3 goats. I don't know maybe I just worry too much


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You know, I think I would go ahead and treat him with both Safeguard and Ivomec at the same time. Try and hit the M Worm hard at once and see what happens. I know they were doing both at the same time for the alpacas.

I sure hope he does ok for you.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The one thing that is missing is the anti-inflammatory. I think you need to do the anti-inflammatory regimen that Dr Anderson suggests in his 3rd table.

This is from the article:
The antiinflammatory drugs are critical to reduce the inflammation associated with the presence of the migrating larvae and the subsequent inflammatory response to the killed larvae. Use of antiinflammatory drugs is important to prevent the clinical signs from becoming more severe after instituting treatment.


Antiinflammatories

- Flunixin (Banamine) 1mg/kg

IV, IM, or SC, q12h x 5d


- Dexamethasone 0.1mg/kg*

IV, IM, or SC, q24h x 3d


- Prednisolone sodium succinate 0.5-1mg/kg_

IV, IM, or SC, q12h x 3d


- DMSO 1g/kg

IV, q24h to effect


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can you go back to your vet for help? I would have her call or email Dr David Anderson for his expertise. I know in the past he was always very helpful for people and willing to talk to them.

Dr Anderson was at Kansas State University but is now at University of Tennessee. Can't find a phone number so you would probably have to call the veterinary college to guide you. Here is a number that I found: (865) 974-VETS

here is his bio page: https://vetmed.tennessee.edu/FacultyStaff/SitePages/CVMProfile.aspx?NetID=dander48


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree.... A little expert consult would be a good idea...


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you ladies. I am getting the Dex today and wil give it to him along with the Ivomec Plus. The vet I speak to is out but the other vet told me that the dex stays in the system for 3 to 4 days.....Last time he got it was Monday. I hope I see some improvement tomorrow. The poor little guy is so frutrated  He wants to walk but he can't stand up. My husband is going to make him a sling today so hopefully this will help a great deal. Will let you know. TC


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you Pam  He needs all the prayers he can get poor baby.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You bet :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hows he doing tonight?...


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Cathy: My poor boy is still the same if not worse. He got a shot of Dex on Friday and started the Ivomec Plus also. Friday night we were able to stand him using a t-shirt and we walked him around like that for a while....of course taking little breaks. So I was hopeful. Come Saturday we can't even stand him up at all. Not even with the t-shirt. His front legs bend backwards toward his stomach and he starts screaming if we try to walk him. So my son carries him and I massage his legs. He tries to get up the poor little thing but just can't. He has the will but not the strength. He is still eating and drinking and his poop is fine. I don't know but I am starting to think that maybe its not the MW after all. Maybe something else. I read about CAE and thought could this be it. I am grasping at staws here I just don't know what to do anymore. I will give him a another shot of the Ivomec today and start him with the Safe Guard tomorrow. If you think of anything else please let me know. You have been so helpful. Thank you


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry he is not improving...you truly have done everything for him. MW is an upward battle,..you almost have to catch it before symptoms appear..the slightest wobble, or stumble..what it sounds like is the infection has progressed...and there may not be much more you can do to stop it...Im so sorry...I wish I could say "Do this or Do that" but you have been so wonderful with him and done everything I could think of doing and more..he is blessed to have you care for him..Im not suggesting you give up...we must do what we can....you will know in your heart if he is done...when the pain becomes too much to bare...
with CAE Encephalitic seizures usually kill infected kids quickly....I don't think this is the problem...
Ill Pray for him and you...this is not an easy battle and I wish I could offer better news, :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry he isn't better by now. 

Only you, will know, when it is time to let go. You tried with all your might, to get him better.
Sometimes things happen beyond our control. 
You know your goat best. May God bless. :hug:


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you ladies. The only thing that keeps me going is that I see he has a will to live and he continues to eat and drink. He gets so mad when he tries to get up and can't and my dh says thats because he hasn't given up and neither should we. I spoke to a man at the feed store yesterday and he told me it could be a pinched nerve. He gave me his dad's number who knows a lot about animals and I will call him tomorrow. When I treated him for selenium deficiency there was a time one the other goat was hitting him and he couldn't defend himself. I wonder if he hurt him then..... I will continue to work with him and I will keep you guys posted. Thank you so much for being so wonderful and for keepping us in your prayers. Bless you all!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thats a good idea..have some one who has experience with goats look at him. keep us posted...

hugs


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Always good to talk to someone else.


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

Maybe try a round of injectable antibiotics? Could be an infection. Seems like you've been treating for worms and it hasn't been helping all that much. If the Dex helped you know that he has spinal swelling. I'd do a round of antibiotics


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Bless your heart.

Can you have a hanging sling built? So he can be up and off his legs?
Poor circulation may contribute to the issue , legs can fall a sleep. If they aren't worked for a long period of time, they lose muscle.
Massage, natural leg movements, needs to be mimicked by you for him.

Have his hooves, to where they are slightly bent knee's, so, if he wants to try to stand on his own, he can. 
Make it comfortable and well cushioned. So it doesn't hurt him. 

You can do this for a few hours at a time, then let him rest, take him down. 

Good luck


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

rssgnl: thanks for your advise...I was thinking the same thing. Maybe a few days of antibiotic will help...it doesn't hurt to try. So tomorrow I will call the vet and ask what is the best antibiotic to give.

Pam: We tried doing a sling for him, but didn't work. My husband is going to buy some material tomorrow and do another one. He needs to be on his feet...laying around is not going to help him recover. I massage his legs a few times a day and try to get him moving. I am going out there now to do it again 

Karen: I will start the safe guard today and will continue it for 5 days. I am still giving him the b-complex everyday.

Thank you all and I will keep you posted. I am not giving up on my Gordo. Please continue sending prayers his way


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds good, hope you get a sling up ASAP


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

rssgnl27: Which antibiotic would you recommend me giving him? I was thinking penicillin. I gave him a shot of Dex last friday and I think it helped him a bit. Should I give him aspirin which I know helps with pain but also as an anti inflammatory. Thank you for your help


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Penicillin is a good choice 1 cc per 20# sub Q be sure to pull the plunger back...iif you see blood re adjust and try again....a baby aspirin a day wont hurt either...


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

I would use penicillin, and the dex is great for the inflammation. I would just try it, can't hurt, and it doesn't seem like anything else is working. I'm not too familiar with meningial worms but if they are excreted in the stool I'd send it out to someone to check, just to target what you're treating for. I live in NY and we can send stuff like that to Cornell. I'm sure you'd be able to ship samples to them across the country too.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Meningeal Worm is not excreted in stool. Only way to test for it is a spinal tap. I bet Cornell does those but it would cost you.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Ok guys so I think Gordo is not peeing. Yesterday when the man from the feed store came by he thought the same thing because I felt his belly and it was dry. He poops fine, but I don't see him urinate. So I massaged him and then a few minutes later he did pee. This morning I haven't seen him pee and his tail is twitching and I am thinking is because he wants to pee and cant. What to do? What to do?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

even though it hurts him..get him standing..see if he dont pee then..and also watch if its a steady stream or kind of splatters out..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Could be UC. May need a vet to take a look. If his bladder is full, it is not good.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things?


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Hey Pam: Poor baby is still pretty much the same. I started giving him the penicillin and an adult aspirin (325mg) and I think it helped him a little. When we carried him he didn't scream in pain like he did before. As far as him peeing I haven't seen any sign that he has. His belly is dry. I tried pushing a little on his bladder and massaged him but nothing. I called the vet and he told me to give him some salt so I did. I am going to give him some more today, but if I don't see him pee I think I need to take him to get a catheter (I hate that) to help him. I just pray I don't have to go that far....poor baby. I don't know if standing him up more often will help him pee?????? I thought maybe because he lays around and he is not moving constantly he doesn't pee. I am lost  I want so badly for him to get better. I know that if it is the MW it can take months for recovery. I just hope he doesn't get urinary calculi, because that just sucks. He did pee on Monday. I couldn't find any feed store that carries ammonium chloride in this town. So I bought him the Noble Goat Feed that contains AC. I don't know if baking soda helps. Any advise??? Thank you so much for caring and keeping in touch. T/C Pam and I will continue to keep you posted.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

He finally peed today Eating well and drinking too. Scheduled an appoitment with the vet for tomorrow. Second round of penicillin tonight & I gave him an aspirin this morning. We tried getting him up and walking him, but screamed in pain. My dh continued to walk him holding him up with a t-shirt. Did this for a while. We rubbed his legs with rubbing alcohol and gave him a good massage. Continued with the safe guard (4th day). Will let you know what the vet says tomorrow. Keep praying


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you can, get him up several times a day. When I cared for alpacas recovering from M Worm, I had to go out and get them up every 2 hours throughout the day for therapy.

Good luck at the vet's.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad he peed Mimi..one less thing to worry about!!


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Karen did your Alpacas screamed when you got them up? He screams and it is just horrible....but regardless we got him up and made him move. It just kills me when he screams that way poor baby.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No, they didn't scream. But they had been on Banamine and Dex and had already had 2 full courses of treatment so they were on the road to recovery when they came to my place.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

So I guess I will tell the vet tomorrow to give me the Benamine & Dex. He got the dex on Wednesday the 3rd, on Tuesday the 16th and on Friday the 19th. This vet just didn't want to give it to him 3 straight days....they don't understand goats. So this vet I am going to tomorrow apparently knows more about goats. Should I have him give me the Benamine & Dex. He is taking penicillin also. Thanks Karen


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Need to get him off his body or at he very least roll him to his other side every couple of hours. If he doesnt have any soreness on his belly, you can actually lay him across something with his feet just able to touch the ground. This acts kinda like a sling. For a normal sized goat a hay bale works best. But even a few cinder blocks with a throw pillow on top of em would work. The more he moves the more likely he will be to recover. When a goat does down for a long time, they can beat what ever is wrong with them but keep going down hill cause they cant get up and slowly they just start to shut down. Once down to long, the likely hood of them ever getting up decreases.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Thank you TDG I will try a bale. No he doesn't have any soreness on his belly. He tries to get up on his own all the time, but just can't and starts screaming. He has a lot of will to live so I am hopefull. Let's see what the vet says tomorrow. I will keep you guys posted. Anything else you can think of please let me know.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would print out Dr Anderson's article on M Worm and take that too. Most goat vets don't know how to treat M worm properly and Dr Anderson did the most research on the M worm. If anyone knows M worm and how to treat it, it is Dr Anderson.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

I took Gordo to the vet today. He examined him and gave him a shot of Dex. Had to order the banamine because he ran out (will get it tomorrow). Told me to continue the penicillin for one more day and to start giving him LA-200 once every 3 days. Karen I told him about the MW and showed article from Dr. Anderson and said nothing (didn't like that) He told me it could be CAE. So he tried to get some joint fluid and he couldn't get any. I don't understand why this vet didn't consider MW....I guess because he knows nothing about it. He did tell me to get him up a few time a day on a sling (even if he cries) and to massage his legs. At first he said maybe one of the other goats hit him and he might have some damage to his inside. He did get hit a few times a while back when I was treating him for selenium and this is why I separated him from the other goats a few weeks ago. Bottom line I really didn't like this vet at all. So I did what I think I should have done a while back and called the original vet who castrated my other goat and had told me to treat him for selenium. When I told him how Gordo was doing he immediately thought MW. He said just a couple of months ago one of his friend little doe got it and nothing they did helped her. He said he didn't think it was CAE. The little doe he gave his friend was actually Gordo's cousin. I had given him a few goats last year and this little doe was the daughter of one of the goats I gave him. He said he tested her for CAE and it came back negative. He told me to call him tomorrow to see if he can see me.....so I guess he goes back tomorrow to Dr. Kroll....he is an 1 1/2 away from me, but if he can help that's all that matters. He told me to continue with the safe guard for 3 more days and to get him up as much as I can. My poor Gordo  he breaks my heart. I will let you guys know how things go tomorrow.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That first vet doesn't know much, you are right, glad you found the other knowledgeable vet. Hoping for the best.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Should I give the LA200 along with the penicillin? This vet confused me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

No I would not use both those together...
Since bacteriostatic drugs may interfere with the bactericidal action of penicillin


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would wait on any other antibiotics until you see the vet. I would also take Dr Anderson's paper in when you go.

Sorry this vet was a waste of time.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Karen: Sounds good. I will wait until I see the other vet. I am going broke here, but my poor Gordo is worth it  He didn't have an appointment for tomorrow, but said he would let me know if there is a cancelllation. If not it will be Monday. I will get the banamine from the other vet tomorrow and will give him that tomorrow I guess. Thanks again Karen you have been very helpful. <3


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I just hope you can turn this little guy around.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Mimi said:


> Karen: Sounds good. I will wait until I see the other vet. I am going broke here, but my poor Gordo is worth it  He didn't have an appointment for tomorrow, but said he would let me know if there is a cancelllation. If not it will be Monday. I will get the banamine from the other vet tomorrow and will give him that tomorrow I guess. Thanks again Karen you have been very helpful. <3


How is Gordo? I can't find any posts after this one. :-(


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Hello kidsnchicks: Gordo is still the same  he can't stand or walk, but continues to eat and drink well. We are trying to get him up and move him around (physical therapy) but it is very difficult because he is in pain. But he has such a will to live so we won't give up on him. He will be going to the vet again today. The vet wants to take an x-ray to see if when he got hit by the other goat around a month ago he got injured. We are also going to test for CAE. I will keep you guys posted. Thank you so much for caring for my Gordo <3


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Let us know what he vet says.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hopefully the xrays will give you some answers.


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Hey guys x-rays were fine....no injuries. She gave him a shot of a joint supplement with Glucosamine and I bought some more at the feed store to give orally. She said he look very good considering he can't stand or walk. She feels that he needs to continue with therapy and maybe even get him a little wheel chair to help him get around until he can do it on his own. She doesn't think it is CAE because his joints are not swollen. She likes the fact that he eats very well and that he at least tries to get up.....he has a will to live. My Gordo is no quitter and neither am I. So keep praying for him and I will let you guys know how he is doing in a few days. Thank you all for all your advise and for caring so much about my Gordo. Bless you all


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

I'm so sorry he isn't any better. I admire your care for him. I'm sure he knows he's loved!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Alls I can say is bravo. You have done everything you could do and still doing more. I so wish there was an answer or advice someone could give that would fix this for you but I guess we will just have to leave it in the Lords hands and see what his will brings. Good luck and God bless.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Double post.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hydrotherapy would be good for him if you can find a way to do it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers he will recover. 

I commend you, for your love and dedication to him. That is special and so heart felt.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Poor Gordo  But don't give up hope yet. We have a goat who was terribly ill, she had to live in the house for 45 days, with IV's, shots, meds, etc etc etc. The vet didn't think she would make it. But she had such a strong will to live, she made it and is fine now. We were dealing with something different, but with lots of care and a strong will to live, there is no reason why a goat shouldn't be able to live though it. They are tough animals.

Sending prayers your way :hug:


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

You guys are amazing Thank you for all the support and caring words. I will keep you posted. God Bless you all


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

Update on Gordo: We are doing PT on him everyday and he is still not able to stand or walk. I notice that when I massage his legs and do the PT he doesn't complain at all, but when we put his feet up on a cinder block he starts screaming. If we put one foot up he is ok, but if we put them both up he goes crazy. I am totally puzzled with my Gordo. I don't know if this is far-fetched but could he have a problem in his rumen??? I have noticed that he has a strange smell in his mouth....not like my other goats. It is not an awful smell but it is strange. So my question is...if he has an infection in his rumen do you think it can cause him pain and not allow him to stand up? I am pulling at straws here but I just don't know what else to do for him. Any advise? Thanks <3


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give him Probios daily. He could probably use it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Large doses of probios sure wouldn't hurt. If he had a twisted gut he would be dead by now. You said he got bashed pretty hard?? Has X-rays been done on his ribs? Shoulder? Hair line fractures can be quite painful. If you push around his belly does he react?


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

I am getting the Probios tomorrow. The x-ray were done on his legs and shoulders not ribs. No he doesn't seem to have pain around his belly. I read that milk of magnesia is good for the rumen....I don't know l am so confused


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

MOM is good if he got into poison, too much feed..anything that can cause toxicity.. 15 cc per 60# is the dose..C D antitoxin is better to use ... is he grinding his teeth??
if you feel around the rib cage..any discomfort? there are Chiropractor who work on animals..might call around??? maybe when he got hit it mis aliened his spine..pinched a nerve...


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## Mimi (Sep 30, 2011)

It is with a heavy heart and great, great sadness that I am writing to guys to let you know that my Gordo when over the rainbow bridge yesterday. He was a fighter and had such will to live, but his little body just couldn't take it anymore. He was with me for a very short while, but he imprinted in my heart and soul and I will forever love him. I want to thank each and everyone of you for your caring words, your advise and prayers. Gordo and I will forever be greateful. It is so good to know that there are still kind people in this crazy world we live in who are willing to help a stranger in need. Once again from the bottom of my heart I THANK you and may God continue to bless you, your families and your pets always. My Gordo is at peace now......Much Love, Mimi & Gordo


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry. He really got some great care. Know that you did everything you possibly could have. :hug:


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. I have been following this thread and cheering him on. You did a great job caring for him. Again, so sorry.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss. You loved and cared for him with all your heart. He felt your love and carried it with him across the rainbow bridge.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

:hug: :tears: Im so sorry


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so so sorry for your loss. :hug:

I hope you know you did a LOT more then a lot of people would of done. I just wish we would of been able to figure it out, but I guess it was his time and he did not need to suffer anymore.

He was SO lucky to have you as mom while he was here on earth.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

:grouphug:


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