# Old Wives Tale



## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I was told a funny old wives tale the other day and was wondering.....have any of you done this or seen this happen?

If you bred in the morning before noon, your doe will kid in the day time. If you breed after noon she will kid at night.

Now, I thot about this with my mare. She was taken to the stud every morning, bred before noon. She foaled at 1:15 in the afternoon. Weird huh?
The friend who told me this had 100 milking goats at one time and she said that when someone would bring in a doe to be bred to her buck, she would ask them if they wanted daytime or night time kidding. Most wanted night time as they worked during the day. So, she bred the does after noon and 98% of the does kidded at night! :chin: Interesting to say the laest!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I breed most of my goats after 2 pm, because i'm not home until then during breeding season. Last year I had mainly daytime kiddings...out of 50-60ish does...maybe 15-20 does kidded during the night. Most of my goats kidded in June and July

I think a lot more goes into the time the goat will kid. Such things could be: weather, time of year kidding, added stress, etc. I personally don't believe time of day of breeding relates to night/day kiddings. But that's just my opinion.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

I agree with Kylee.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I just thot it would be fun to see if anyone had this happento them!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Interesting thought...  

I read about one person feeding their sheep (around 300 of them) late at night (around 9 pm) and they would lamb during the day. So this year, I've been feeding all of my pregnant ladies late at night and sure enough, they have all kidded in the afternoon! A midwife once told me that a lot of women have noticed this too, with their pregnancies. If they snack on things late at night when they are getting close to their due date, they will usually go into heavy labor later in the day. 

I think birthing time is something that could be moderately controlled, just like you can alter your chances of getting male of female offspring with animals. But there is always the percentage of animals that will just do their own thing. Those are the ones who keep life fun, I guess! :wink:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Goat Song said:


> just like you can alter your chances of getting male of female offspring with animals.


How do you do this?? I would love to have all doe kids. This Spring we got lucky and 5 out of 6 were does.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Feeding does contribute alot on day or night kiddings....I have seen it... the later you feed... a big majority... will have them in the day time..... 

When you breed at certain times... I never seen that... to be accurate....... :wink:


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> How do you do this?? I would love to have all doe kids. This Spring we got lucky and 5 out of 6 were does.


Take away their baking soda and put apple cider vinegar in their water for about two weeks before getting them bred. What you are doing is changing the PH of their body. There is a lot more scientific detail to this, buuuuut, we won't go there today due to the content. :wink: But in a nutshell, you're just changing the PH. Female embryos are acidic, whereas males are alkaline. So if the dam has a acidic PH, then when she is bred and she settles, there is a 90% chance of getting a female baby. Some goats (or animals in general) have a naturally alkaline PH, so this won't always work, but for the majority it does! If you want males, then increase the amount of alkaline foods.

I learned this from a rabbit breeder who can't keep up with the demand for female babies, and this was their secret. If they weren't able to start the acid treatment in time, they would do a weak acidic enema right before taking them to the buck. I've never done it though.... I know a lot of race horse breeders do the vinegar/soda treatment so they will get exactly what they want.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Since I leash breed, most of my does who have been bred have had the buck visit them after I get off work at 2pm...and usually it's 2x from 3pm to around 6 or 7 pm as well as the second day.......This past February, each of my 3 mama's have delivered between 1pm and 6pm


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I find it ironic that the term 'Old Wives Tale' is supposed to describe untrue or fake ideas/thoughts, when historically old wives were the healers, midwives and so on that had such a huge impact. Any idea how the term started? The inception of patriarchal rule?


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## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

What's the ratio of cider vinegar to water? I would *so* love to have all girl babies. I love the boys, but I don't like to eat them, and it's hard to find good homes for them:-( I almost always get one boy one girl out of my does. A couple times I have gotten twin girls, or once two girls and a boy.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I had heard about the cider vinegar but also heard that it didn't work and it was a wives tale. :shrug: 
I have also heard cranberry juice or tablets; maybe that is the same principle.


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> I find it ironic that the term 'Old Wives Tale' is supposed to describe untrue or fake ideas/thoughts, when historically old wives were the healers, midwives and so on that had such a huge impact. Any idea how the term started? The inception of patriarchal rule?


 I think it started out with the herbalist women of old times. The simple herbal remedies have always been looked down upon as "quackery", and the women were often persecuted (or burned, like the "witch" burnings throughout history). These outcast women knew what they were talking about, but their peers snorted at their simple sounding remedies and cast them off as "old wives tales". That's my idea on it. I don't know if it's historically accurate, but that's what has always come to mind when I hear the term. I personally love "old wives tales" because they usually do have some really good truth to them. True, some have become distorted with time, but if you really dig into the ones that sound weird, you can usually find the wisdom in them. 



> What's the ratio of cider vinegar to water?


For breeding season, I work up to 1/2 to 3/4 cup per 5 gallons of water (my water bucket holds 5 gallons, so I just go by that). To be honest though, I normally go by "glugs"; during most of the year, I pour in a small glug, and during breeding season I do a big glug. :wink:



> I had heard about the cider vinegar but also heard that it didn't work and it was a wives tale.
> I have also heard cranberry juice or tablets; maybe that is the same principle.


Perhaps it is a wives tale... But it works for me! :greengrin:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the rumen will break down the acid in the ACV and make it useless. This is what my goat vet says. but go ahead and try it if you feel so led. To me its not even worth it as I cant see how it would change somethign in the uterus  

I know someoe went into GREAT detail about it once but to me it doesnt seem really likely as you would need LOTS of ACV


as to the breeding making them kid later or not, I dont see that as being true. but I hav heard that feeing them at certain times can male a difference. AgainI dont see this as coming true as my girls eat constantly just before kidding. So they eat all day or all night whatever floats their boat


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Goat Song has it right about the history of the old wives tale thing. Most healers were female back in the day and they used herbs, moon cycles and rhythems of the weather. It is very interesting and I have recently done a lot of research into it. Like when to plant certain plants in your garden for the best harvest.

I have also heard of the ACV thing. A lady told a friend years ago about douching with it before she got pregnant if she wanted a girl baby. For her it worked...or she was just destend to have a girl! It is my way of thinking that the male determines sex of the baby. If a male has a history of throwing females, then it probubaly will not matter what the female does.

Alot of the old ways are coming back as people are tired of doctors and thier non-commital treatment. Get you in and out as fast as possible thing. There are alot of people here that rely on the old ways and I think it is very interesting!

Since Sasha was bred in the morning, having her kids in the day time according to the tale, I think I will also feed her her evening feed later than I have been. Hey, I want at least one doe so why not try for one?!

Does any one have any more "old wives tlaes" they would like to share?


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I figured that's where the term came from. (I've been planting by the moon as we speak.. Glad I'm not the only one!)
I'd agree that genes probably factor a lot as well but I definitely believe there are other ways. Someone posted about specific breeding times in correlation to how fast the sperm travels when the doe is in heat.. Anyone know who that was? Goathappy perhaps?
Has anyone tried dowsing with a pendulum to determine gender?


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## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

I do know the PH of the human body can be changed with diet. An alkaline system is healthy, and an acidic system is not. That being said, raw apple cider vinegar is supposed to be healthy, so I have no idea if it would change the body's PH to acidic, even though it is acidic....lol! I do know it works for heartburn! 

Goatsong, how many girls do you get as compared to boys using this this method?


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> I do know the PH of the human body can be changed with diet. An alkaline system is healthy, and an acidic system is not. That being said, raw apple cider vinegar is supposed to be healthy, so I have no idea if it would change the body's PH to acidic, even though it is acidic....lol! I do know it works for heartburn!
> 
> Goatsong, how many girls do you get as compared to boys using this this method?


Not positive on a percentage of girls versus boys.... It really depends on how much ACV I give them, and when I started giving it to them. This year, I did the usual ACV procedure with one of my does and got twin doelings from her; I did another doe where she only got the ACV for one week (first week with it, second week without it, and then bred her) and got two bucklings and a doeling. I can't remember if I gave ACV to my third gal or not... It was a hectic time when I got her bred... But in the past, when I have done all my girls on ACV, I think it was something like 80% females and 20% males?



> Does any one have any more "old wives tales" they would like to share?


Ever heard about deworming animals on a waxing moon?  I do it, and it really does make a difference in the deworming process. (And I plant by the moon too :wink: ) It all sounds like hocus pocus, but if you dig into the science behind it, it makes sense. And hey, I'm game to anything that makes deworming easier! :greengrin:


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

It is said that a waxing moon is to bring forth something, a waning moon is for getting rid of something. So, if you want something do it during the waxing moon. If you want to get rid of something do it during the waning moon. And of course all things are possible on the full moon!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I think I read to do it on a waxing moon because the worms were more active then, and easier to expel.... But now I'm doubting myself, so I'll go double check that! Your explanation definitely makes sense though!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Aha! You were right and I was wrong. My book recommends deworming on a full moon. Please forgive my error. 

[mutters to self] Now where would I have gotten deworming on a waxing moon.... :wink:


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

When in doubt, do what you need to on a full moon! :wink:


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

What book have you got there Goat Song?


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Well, there's actually two; they're by the same author though...

The one that I use for planting by the moon and whatnot (and it only has like one page about that...) is called 'Common Herbs for Natural Health', by Juliette De Bairacli Levy. http://www.amazon.com/Common-Natural-He ... 667&sr=1-1

My top favorite herbal livestock book is another by Juliette: 'The Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable'. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Herbal-H ... 809&sr=1-1 (I have an older version, and it has a Toggenburg goat on the front cover; not a cow) I love, love, love this book!! I can't even count how many times I have turned to it and successfully helped my animals.


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

> When in doubt, do what you need to on a full moon!


Exactly. :greengrin: I feel kinda' like I hijacked your thread here.... Sorry about that...


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Whooo, I have the second book, part way through it now.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

My does have always kid within 1-2 hours of their breeding time. I hand breed...so I know the minute each girl is bred. Really sucked this last kidding season because we had a buck escape during the night....ended up with a lot of evening births! UGH!!!! Although I know the ones he bred early in the morning because they kid for me at 8-9 AM. :laugh:


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

No worries goat song!

That's intereesting myfainters! IF Sasha kids during the day, then I think I will try to breed in the morning next time and see if it holds true. Can't hurt to try!

Sure wish I had known about the ACV before I bred. I do want a doeling out of this kidding. She had a single buck last year. Let's see tho...the buck determines the sex more often than not...right? Wish I had asked the buck owner what he throws more of.


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