# doe having a difficult labor?



## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

I have had goats for a few years now and been here for three previous kiddings. Scamp my eldest doe is in labor and has been since around lunch time. There was a big hullaballo outside and i found my two bucks had figured out how to get into the girl's pen. One of the bucks had trapped scamp in the house. Long story short i have seen the 1st kids head and scamp was pushing with contractions, then she gets up and walks around,eats and of course the "bubble" disappears. Scamp does not seem to be unduly stressed or in pain. How do I tell if she is in trouble and needs help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she had the head out since lunch she needs you to get thenm out now....if baby is stuck or mis presented she would stop labor...

wash up and gets some gloves and lub....go in a see whats going on...she may need you to pull baby out ...if there are two the next one may come on its own...


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*doe having a hard labor?*

It seems like the bubble pokes out while and after she pushes but it goes back in then the next time she lays down and pushes out it comes. That is what has been happening since lunch.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

do you see two hooves and a head..how long ( hour wise) has this been going on?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to go in. That kid is probably malpresentation. You need to go in and figure out what part of the kid is presenting. It should be the head and both front legs. If this has been going on since noon, you are looking at life and death here.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree.. You need to go in and check things out ASAP!


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks so much for the responses, I am actually starting to be concerned. There is not enough visible kid to see any more than just the tip of the head, face. The in and out has been going on for about two and a half hours


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...pinch your fingers together and slide in slowly...feel for legs.if no legs..then go in past babies shoulders...grab hold and pull gently...hopefully her body will wake up and help you...if she pushes at all..work with her...be gentle and go slow...if you feel legs then get them out front and be sure head is forward


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Time to pull kids now.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes, you need to be concerned and you need to go in or get the vet out or someone who can go in and figure out what is going on.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dont rush....work slow....work with mom...but get that baby out...breath deep close your eyes and see with your hand....you can do this!!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Sounds like the legs could be back.. Go in, see what you can feel.. Sounds like your gonna have to reposition the kid and pull it out..


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

going now


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

prayers and good wishes....keep us posted


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

racoulson said:


> going now


Good luck! Praying for you!


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm praying for you, too!


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

okay, Besides the indignity of having mommy putting her fingers up my hoo haa..everything seems ok. I was not able to feel anything. so maybe she just is not ready yet! the bubble has disappeared again. i am going to call our vet but will appreciate any feedback, advice, well wishes. lol I will update as appropriate.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

You couldn't feel the kid at all?? How far did you go in?
I think a call to the vet may be a good idea..

ETA: if there was a bubble she is ready.. Esp. if there was a kid in the bubble.. Pushing alone says she is ready.. That kid has got to come out.. 

I think a shot of B-Complex and some Nutri-Drench wouldn't be a bad idea at this point..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you may need to go deeper...how far did you go?


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

vet says to let her be. the bubble moving in and out is normal as scamp gets up and walks the kid repositions. I was only able to get one finger in. i am by myself and it is very difficult to do that by yourself (vet said " i know right?") lol.... She also said to check her frequently during the night. She said to watch for loud bleating or moaning, a kid that is halfway out, heavy panting. Anything else?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...so if baby was already showing...*that is active labor*once you see the amber goo bubble...that too is active labor! any bubble is active labor...you should have babies by now...

so heres the line up...
stage one: mom may, stretch, become anxious, some go off feed, seperates from herd, lays down, get up, paws at ground, presses head into things as contraction happen..may lick alot, may do a funny yawn thing
stage two is all of stage one plus mom pawing laying down..push slightly..gets up...paws again...lays down..water may break..should see goo
last stage is mom pawing then laying down and pushing...this part should not take more then 30-40 minutes!

is there any discharge, goo or water bursts? how her bag? tight? ligs gone?.is she eating? and drinking? pooping berries? peeing?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I agree, baby needs to come out. Otherwise mom will wear out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

when I was a new goat mom I had a boer doe did this...she acting like it was time but nothing presented...finally she tried pushing with nothing..I called a vet and he told me the same thing yours told you...leave her be...she will be fine...a day later she was in distress...so I called the vet...she came out and for what seemed like hours she pulled, tried to postion the kids..NOTHING..ended up having to do a c section and lost all three huge healthy babies! dont wait.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

happybleats said:


> when I was a new goat mom I had a boer doe did this...she acting like it was time but nothing presented...finally she tried pushing with nothing..I called a vet and he told me the same thing yours told you...leave her be...she will be fine...a day later she was in distress...so I called the vet...she came out and for what seemed like hours she pulled, tried to postion the kids..NOTHING..ended up having to do a c section and lost all three huge healthy babies! dont wait.


My story was about like that as well but the kid was deformed and his head had like a mini head on it. Couldn't come out.....mama tore her uterus trying for hours and after a $400
C section I lost her.
But what these girls are trying to tell you is it needs to come out. I understand your alone and it sucks. Tie her head up tight and do the best you can. There is no way she can live with those kids in her.

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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

This may seems like too short of a time to wait, but if the doe hasn't popped a kid out in 15-20 minutes, I go in and start checking things out. Especially if the doe has a history of having big kids. This year was no exception. Had 2 huge bucklings stuck, and one was breech. (One more baby was behind them, and came out on his own.) I've lost big babies with this doe before, so no way was I going to let a lot of time pass. If one is stuck, and one waits too long, you also run the risk of losing the other(s) behind it. It is such a sad thing.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

How are things going? 
I agree that the kid NEEDS to come OUT! ASAP! 
I don't agree with your vet.. If there is active pushing, or a bubble or kid presented then that is active labor and she shouldn't be left to do it on her own.. Esp. with how long prior to you posting it had been going on...

I too had a doe our first year like that.. She pushed three empty bubbles out.. About an hour or so had passed.. She was worn out.. She was giving up.. We called her breeder (at 1:30am!) and she walked us through pulling the kids..

Prayers and well wishes for you and your doe.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

One other thing I wanted to say to the newbies out there. If you have to go into a doe who's in active labor, pull the baby with her contractions. (When she pushes, that's when you pull.)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How are things....? we are here to help you..talk you through things...support you...just let us know whats needed...


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*doe having difficult labor?*

Cathy, would you mind talking to me on the phone! I can call you if you like


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hope everything turns out well  I have you in my thoughts


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> Hope everything turns out well  I have you in my thoughts
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Agreed.. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I sent you a PM


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ALL IS WELL...I just got off the phone...and Panic set the stage...lol...here where Scamp stands

ligs still present...
Bag still loose
some white mess on pooch ( Plug?)

she was bashed by a buck...but head on...no no injury...She is eating drinking acting normal ..what was seen was the normal vuva opening when Scamp laid down..then closed up when she stood...no bubble..no feet..no head

Mom was paniced..a nieghbor thought she saw a head...and it went crazy from there lol..SOOOOOOoo Scamp is not in labor from what I decerned from talking with Scamps mom...

: ) Scamp is in good hands..mom was just nervous


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Oh so glad to hear it!! :leap: thanks for the update Cathy!!  

I just wanted to say sorry if my posts sounded a bit blunt or rude.. I was just concerned about your doe and her kids is all.. Very sorry if I came off that way.


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## DesertFlowerNigerians (Mar 27, 2014)

Wheew. You got me worried there!!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Oh so glad to hear it!! :leap: thanks for the update Cathy!!
> 
> I just wanted to say sorry if my posts sounded a bit blunt or rude.. I was just concerned about your doe and her kids is all.. Very sorry if I came off that way.


Oh are you kidding me I'm sure we all have been freaked....I know I have and still do. You didn't come off rude to me  it was understandable  
I was wondering if she prolapsed but the whole seeing a head turned me off that idea.
But so happy all is well  not take a breather and get ready for when it's really time 

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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you  I just hope I didn't offend her any 

Yah, seeing the 'head' is what got me really going lol!

Agreed! Rest up, and wait for her real labor  that way you won't be too tired to enjoy your new bouncing babies


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sure we have all been panicked before.. I know I sure have...Im just glad Scamp is well and in good hands...this is not her first kidding and mom was there for her last, which she did have to help....now we wait to see the pix when she does have her babies!!!


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*scamps latest update*

To all of you nigerian goat parents, scamp os preggers, we thought she was in labor but after rechecking, turns out she is not. i have taken a pic so you can see what i am talking about when i say something was coming out but would go back in when she stands. I am thinking prolapsed uterus?

any thoughts?


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

by the way everyone. I was not offended at all, panicked is a much better description as a matter of fact, I am thankful to have had so many responses. I needed to talk to a voice.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..that does look to be a prolaps, I was reading abit on this today...maybe virginal or uterous??...I know many Nigie lovers have seen this in thier ladies with multiples...hopefully they will chime in and give some advice..: )


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is vaginal prolapse. As long as it goes back in when she gets up, it is ok.


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

so Karen, does it matter that dirt gets on it?


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Prolapse? Had that with one of my ladies. At first it would go back in by itself when she stood up. She had so much discharge that I didn't worry about dirt, because of all the protective slime flowing out. But later, it didn't pull in when she stood, so I rinsed off the bits of dirt, and placed a palmful of table sugar on the prolapse...then watched it magically retreat! I did that once a day until she wasn't prolapsing any more. Cheap, effective, and helps put one's mind at ease.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Goat_in_Himmel said:


> Prolapse? Had that with one of my ladies. At first it would go back in by itself when she stood up. She had so much discharge that I didn't worry about dirt, because of all the protective slime flowing out. But later, it didn't pull in when she stood, so I rinsed off the bits of dirt, and placed a palmful of table sugar on the prolapse...then watched it magically retreat! I did that once a day until she wasn't prolapsing any more. Cheap, effective, and helps put one's mind at ease.


How does table sugar help a prolapse?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It shrinks the uterus so it can either go in on it's own or you can push it back in. Tried it once and it was actually kinda cool how well it woeks


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

any concerns about her being able to deliver?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

from what I read..she should be able to deliver just fine...when we worry is when it will not go back in on its own..for now shes good...Keep a close eye on it


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

As for _how_ sugar works, my guess is it's like when you let fruit stand in sugar for a while before making a pie (whatever the proper term for that procedure is, as I've forgotten). It draws off the juices, then you don't get such a runny pie. So perhaps it draws out the excess moisture from the prolapse, so it can shrink enough to go back in.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.

Dirt is never good to go in there, you can buy afterbirth boluses, they are for cattle and insert it in her uterus, after she kids and drops her afterbirth to help prevent infection from the dirt.
If she doesn't drop the after birth, you can give antibiotics for prevention. 

If it stays out, there is worry, it will need to be inserted within a reasonable time frame before the tissue dies and it must be cleaned before inserting as well. 
This tissue can rip really easy and if it is ripped the doe can die, so if you are not knowledgeable on how to do so, I'd get a vet or some one who knows of this.
If it has dirt on it and is out it can be gently cleaned with warm water. Be very careful. Sugar can be used as mentioned as well.

If it gets to where it doesn't go back in. seek a vet. The prolapse will have to be put back in, if she is in labor and it has prolapsed or she cannot have the kids or urinate.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would call your vet and put him on alert..just in case you need him : )


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

You probably have a litter in there  The prolapse is no big deal, when she goes into labor it will go away. There is only so much room in there and something's gotta give. It's doesn't mean she will lose her uterus. I had a doe do this everytime she was this late in her pregnancy and usually kidded out quads unassisted. I would just clean it when it gets dirty and put vasoline or bag balm on it to keep the tissue moist. Dry tissue is the biggest worry when a doe does this because dry tissue tears.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

I forgot to mention, with the prolapse, if it doesn't pull in by itself after the sugar treatment, you can gently but firmly, with a _clean_ hand, push it in with your flat palm. It may feel like it doesn't want to go all the way in, but with just that last bit of push, it pops in like it's relieved to go back into place. Use a blunt part of your hand like your bent knuckle if needed to do this last push, _not_ scratchy fingernails! This is not too scary of a procedure, so long as one remembers hygiene and makes sure not to cause scratches.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

HerdQueen said:


> You probably have a litter in there  The prolapse is no big deal, when she goes into labor it will go away. There is only so much room in there and something's gotta give. It's doesn't mean she will lose her uterus. I had a doe do this everytime she was this late in her pregnancy and usually kidded out quads unassisted. I would just clean it when it gets dirty and put vasoline or bag balm on it to keep the tissue moist. Dry tissue is the biggest worry when a doe does this because dry tissue tears.


 Not all prolapses, depending on severity go back in at kidding time. It needs to be watched and put back in if it is out at the time of labor for the kids to be born. 
I wouldn't put Vaseline or bag balm on it, it only needs to be cleaned up with clean warm water and gently with open palm and inserted back in, as soon as possible. Tissue will dry, if left out too long, which is not good. 
The doe will push against you as if she was kidding, but be patient and push it back in when she stops fighting you. Make sure, you have clean hands and push it all the way in and that it is in place.


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## Woody_Glen_Farm (Feb 23, 2014)

My Ff did this this year before she had triplets. It disappeared when the kids moved into birthing positions. It started about a month before she kidded but went away when she got up. A normal easy birth. The dirt would sort of slide off when it withdrew back into her.


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*Birth announcement*

I am happy to announce the effortless birth of 3 new kids. Its a dog's life farm is thrilled that all went well and Scamp is an awesome mama. Thank you all so much for your reassurance, support and advice. Special thanks to Cathy who talked me through the scariest month of my life.

I willmsend pics soon

Anne


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Yay! :leap: Congratulations!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yahoooooo..so glad she did well!!!! cant wait to see pix....:fireworks:


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

Woo hoo! Congrats...but you can't just drop an announcement on us like that and not give us PICTURES!!! We just love baby pictures especially!!


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*baby pictures*

sorry for the dark pics but of course scamp would kid at 9pm est. I will take better ones in the morning


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*birth announcement*

2 boys 1 girl


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so happy she did well!!! Congrats!!


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## racoulson (Mar 29, 2013)

*birth announcement*

the kids are doing good this morning:whatgoat: got a few more pics to share


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awe!!! SUCCESS!!


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

YAY!!!! Oh what a bunch of little cuties!! Congratulations on healthy mom and kids. :balloons::bday:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute.


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## DesertFlowerNigerians (Mar 27, 2014)

Yay! So glad she kidded well! Congrats! They're a cute little bunch!


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

Cute babies and now you can breath again. lol


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