# Failed banding followed by castration



## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

Hello, first post here. I have been lurking for a while and learned a lot of good information but unable to find any information on my specific situation. I have had goats for a year now and my does had their first kids on March 1st.

I banded two bucklings last saturday morning (90 days old) and come monday morning the testicles hadn’t completely died, they we’re in a lot of pain. They were cold and dead at the bottom but not at the top by the band. I got them into the vet by noon and they surgically castrated them. He removed most the dead tissue as half of the scrotum was dead. The testicles were blue only half way up. I asked what I did wrong and he said nothing, bands on goats with testicles this large could go either way. 

One goat has been in a lot of pain since. He went off food for two days. Wednesday he started eating again but spends most the day kicking and running from one corner of his pen to the other laying down. He seems to do a little better in the evening when the heat goes away. He spends more time walking around and eating. The other looks to be mildly bothered (will flinch or kick rarely, not at an alarming amount) but has bounced back well and never went off food, water and is still nursing.

The vet said there isn’t much he can do as when he checked on him Tuesday the wound was clean and everything was in place and the pain must be from the failed banding. He had two doses of excede 72 hours apart and I had him on banamine from Monday through Wednesday. He peed dark blood for about 36 hours starting the day after the procedure. The other banded buckling did for about 12 hours. Vet says it was clotted blood in vas deferens. Neither have had issue urinating and have normal colored urine now.

Each day he does seem to do better with being more alert and slightly edging back to being himself but is still in obvious pain. I looked at his wound tonight (Friday about 4 day post surgery) and it just seems to be an open hole into his abdomen that hasn’t started to close up. The scrotum is shriveled but as I mentioned half of it has been taken off. I can’t see anything out of place and it’s clean. No swelling, discharge or anything looking infected. How long does this take to close up? I plan on calling the vet again Monday. Anyone have any experience with this? 

They were both given their second CD&T booster and a tetanus shot right before the procedure. They were also both administered a block, some sort of numbing shot, and were sedated. I assume if he was going to die directly from the procedure it would of happened by now, but I am still very worried about infection after seeing it tonight.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is good you are taking him back to the vet. Sounds like he may need more Banamine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree more banamine is needed.

You said you just banded them last Saturday? 
Just so you know, it takes a month or more for them to totally die, dry/shrivel up, then drop off. 

The band cuts of blood supply and circulation of the tissue of the scrotum, causing it to die. 
It doesn't happen quickly. 
A very slow process.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

toth boer goats said:


> I agree more banamine is needed.
> 
> You said you just banded them last Saturday?
> Just so you know, it takes a month or more for them to totally die, dry/shrivel up, then drop off.
> ...


They were both yelling and screaming and rolling on the ground 3 days later. I reached out to a couple goat mentors I have and they felt something was definitely not going right if they were in that much pain several days later.

Maybe I overreacted and took bad advice?

He is up this morning and he nursed for the first time since Sunday. He isn't showing much discomfort as of right now and is out grazing with the herd. We will see how the rest of the day goes. We are supposed to get a lot of rain this evening and tomorrow so I plan on cleaning a few stalls and moving the banded ones and their dams inside on some straw to make sure their wounds stay clean.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

As far as banamine goes, I do have 4 syringes with 1cc in each left but I was told to hold off by the vet since more than 3 days in a row can cause serious ulcers.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Use banamine as needed. 
If he is acting OK and eating, there is no need to give it.
When they are in pain, they won't eat and may squirm. 

We keep flies off of it, by spraying blue spray or fly wound spray Catron daily. 

Watching for odd swelling, really bad smell, pus, redness above the band. 

When bucks are banded, it is very uncomfortable, it is a very sensitive area. Think about it.

If they are very well endowed, it is harder on them. 
They will squirm and move funny and maybe stiff legged for a few days anyway. 
I always give banamine right when I am banding them, to help with swelling and pain. 

Some take it worse than others. 
But it is normal considering what we just did to them. 

Yeah, I think you were misguided.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

It may take them several days to become okay again. You have to consider that their testicles are large than those most of us band so it'll be more painful longer.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

Thanks for the input. It is much appreciated.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I may have missed it. But please be sure to give tetanus antitoxin shot asap if not already done. (Not cd&t...they need the antitoxin)
We do banamine 30 minutes before banding..seems to help..but yes some take it harder than others.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

happybleats said:


> I may have missed it. But please be sure to give tetanus antitoxin shot asap if not already done. (Not cd&t...they need the antitoxin)
> We do banamine 30 minutes before banding..seems to help..but yes some take it harder than others.


yes they got one already. Thanks for double checking.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Just wanted to add my own two cents.
The kicking thing is something I've seen in my bucklings as well...I just had one castrated surgically last month and he is all healed up now. Few days into the surgery, he would also jump and kick, bleating with pain. It can happen when flies or mosquitoes sit on it; it hurts them because the area is sensitive. I agree with toth Boer goats about using fly spray and keeping the area clean. 

I am a bit curious about the peeing blood thing...did the vet say it is normal with the surgical castration? That's the only way goats are castrated around here, and iv never heard or seen of it....I may be wrong of course.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

stut8500 said:


> They were both yelling and screaming and rolling on the ground 3 days later. I reached out to a couple goat mentors I have and they felt something was definitely not going right if they were in that much pain several days later.
> 
> Maybe I overreacted and took bad advice?


No, I think your goat mentors were right. Screaming and rolling on the ground three days later is NOT normal. If, as you say, the testicles were still warm and "alive" half-way up, that means there was still some blood supply. I'm not sure why that would be unless your bands were too big/stretchy. Usually the acute pain only lasts a few hours. Within 12 hours, everything under the band should be completely cold and dead to the touch with no pain reaction from your goat.

I'm glad you contacted a vet about this and got the issue taken care of. If there was still some blood supply to the testicles, not only was this extremely and excessively painful for the goats, it could have been dangerous. Circulation goes both ways and if any of that "dead" blood leaked back into their bodies it would have caused sepsis and likely death. It sounds like your boys are on the mend and will be ok. Keep an eye on the wounds to make sure they keep healing well and don't get infected. I like to puff a little Wonder Dust onto the area to keep it clean and dry and discourage flies.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Aasiya said:


> I am a bit curious about the peeing blood thing...did the vet say it is normal with the surgical castration? That's the only way goats are castrated around here, and iv never heard or seen of it....I may be wrong of course.


Your goats weren't banded before they were surgically castrated. With this unusual circumstance I'm not surprised by blood in the urine. I had a buckling pee blood for a couple of days after he got whacked (deservedly) in the testicles by another goat. Traumatic injury can definitely cause it but thankfully it's not usually serious.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

Alright, well that goat seems to be doing well and the hole seems to be scabbing up.

I checked the other goat who seemed to bounce back very quick and he has white discharge and it smells infected.

I gave him a shot of antibiotic Excede that they sent me home with, and sprayed it with chlorohexidine. Excede is the antibiotic they gave them at the time of the procedure along with the CD&T booster and tetanus shot. Chlorohexidine is the only thing I have on hand. I couldnt get into the sack very well as it’s closing together.

Temped him at 103.2 and he is acting fine, drinking and eating.

Still plan on calling the vet in the morning and will be keeping a close eye on him until then.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Your goats weren't banded before they were surgically castrated. With this unusual circumstance I'm not surprised by blood in the urine. I had a buckling pee blood for a couple of days after he got whacked (deservedly) in the testicles by another goat. Traumatic injury can definitely cause it but thankfully it's not usually serious.


Ok, thanks for clearing it up


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

stut8500 said:


> Alright, well that goat seems to be doing well and the hole seems to be scabbing up.
> 
> I checked the other goat who seemed to bounce back very quick and he has white discharge and it smells infected.
> 
> ...


If you have a sterile syringe, you can try flushing out the wound with the chlorhexidine, but just this once. Afterwards, it's best to use iodine diluted to the colour of weak tea. The vet may have to drain the wound if it's infected and closing up....Good luck on the little guy


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

Aasiya said:


> If you have a sterile syringe, you can try flushing out the wound with the chlorhexidine, but just this once. Afterwards, it's best to use iodine diluted to the colour of weak tea. The vet may have to drain the wound if it's infected and closing up....Good luck on the little guy


I actually do have triodine 7 now that I am looking around. I have some sterile syringes in the packages. I just picked up some blue kote. Ill flush it out as well as I can with the triodine and spray the whole area with the blue kote.. I expect you're right about the vet opening it and draining it.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

This morning his temp was 102.1. Didn’t see any puss and the smell was significantly less. The scrotum was wet so maybe it’s just draining out. He seems to be acting fine. Vet said since he is improving to just keep an eye on it and clean it out best I can. Give another shot of excede in a few days.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad they are doing better.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

stut8500 said:


> I actually do have triodine 7 now that I am looking around. I have some sterile syringes in the packages. I just picked up some blue kote. Ill flush it out as well as I can with the triodine and spray the whole area with the blue kote.. I expect you're right about the vet opening it and draining it.


I would not use the blue kote right now since you suspect infection. Once you spray it you cannot see redness around the area


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the others.

You are doing a good job. 
Keep flushing it out with iodine water.

If you have flies around, you have to use something to detour them like...


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

Damfino said:


> No, I think your goat mentors were right. Screaming and rolling on the ground three days later is NOT normal. If, as you say, the testicles were still warm and "alive" half-way up, that means there was still some blood supply. I'm not sure why that would be unless your bands were too big/stretchy. Usually the acute pain only lasts a few hours. Within 12 hours, everything under the band should be completely cold and dead to the touch with no pain reaction from your goat.
> 
> I'm glad you contacted a vet about this and got the issue taken care of. If there was still some blood supply to the testicles, not only was this extremely and excessively painful for the goats, it could have been dangerous. Circulation goes both ways and if any of that "dead" blood leaked back into their bodies it would have caused sepsis and likely death. It sounds like your boys are on the mend and will be ok. Keep an eye on the wounds to make sure they keep healing well and don't get infected. I like to puff a little Wonder Dust onto the area to keep it clean and dry and discourage flies.


How long does this take to heal? What should I be seeing as it heals?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm not sure how long it will take to heal since I can't see how big the wounds are. It doesn't usually take long once the testicles are gone (a couple of weeks maybe?). The wounds should get smaller and drier each day with minimal blood and pus. There's usually enough to make crust and ooziness, but there shouldn't be enough to run down the legs or drip. The wounds may have a faint bad odor from time to time (especially since it's summer), but not enough to make you notice unless you stick your nose up to it, and it should stink less as time goes on. 

Things to watch out for are soreness, redness, irritation, swelling, putrid odor, dripping pus, bleeding, flies and maggots, goats going off feed or acting lethargic. If you keep up with topical antibiotics and fly repellant, you shouldn't have a problem. I personally prefer Wonder Dust, but there are lots of good topical sprays, ointments, and powders out there that will do the trick.


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## stut8500 (Jun 6, 2020)

I want to give an update just incase someone else has the same issue and stumbles upon this thread.

We ended up taking them back to the vet as one had a nasty cough and the others scrotum started to smell very bad along with a fever of 104.7 in both of them. The vet gave them another shot of antibiotics that I did not catch the name of. When I got them both home neither could stand and acted drunk. I called the vet and he said it was due to the stress and fever most likely. They were down for about 8 hours and then started to act normal again. Fevers were gone in both of them along with the cough in the other. 

Two weeks later the scrotums were healed and everything looked great. The scrotums then detached where the original bands were placed. This created a second open wound. It did mostly look like a flesh wound as the hole into their abdomen was closed. One did have slight white discharge for a couple days but now both of them are pretty close to being healed completely. This entire endeavor has lasted 6 weeks.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow. Glad they are healing.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Man what an ordea, glad you have a great vet and he was treated properly.


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