# My experiance feeding spent grain



## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

some back ground I have 30 milk goats and 200 ewes. and three sows.
last year i had a micro beer brewery contact me, they had just gone through a major expansion and offered there spent grain to me. of course i jumped at the offer. 
since last august i have brought home 20 to 25, fifty five gallon barrels of grain a week.
at first the sheep and goats didn't like it much the hogs loved it. the sheep and goats developed a taste for it and slowly started to eat more and more. now they love it. I worried that spent grain would be like candy and not have enough nutrients.
my fears were amplified when my hogs stopped growing the and i lost a larger number of piglets than normal. I have since stopped feeding spent grain to the pigs. 
sheep hide there body condition under there wool and do not like to be poked so it is hard to know how they are doing. so i have watched my goats condition. 
to my surprise the goats body condition is improving during the tough winter that we have had. now that the goats are kidding the kids look great are strong and have great vitality. and the biggest thing i see is the milk production is way up. even with twins i have to milk.
and the hay shed is still 3/4 full normally i have to buy hay at the end of march.
the brewery just let me know that they will be expanding again and was wondering if i could handle more grain. 
l told them i would take what ever they produced. I am looking at expanding my sheep herd to 300 head as the brewery grows.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I wonder hog anomaly then. They are so efficient and feed conversion that this is a real puzzle to me.

BTW, I've had pigs and like them. We don't have them anymore because my husband refused to sell or to butcher them and so they kept having litters and I was going bankrupt feeding them. I threatened to just start shooting them! I was getting desperate. 

To this day he tells people I hate pigs. No, I have immense respect for pigs!!!! But they do have to be butchered...

Anyway, why do you think this feed was so different between the species? And what kind of sheep do you raise? Are they meat sheep or wool sheep, or hair sheep (meat sheep that you don't have to shear, like Katahdins)?

And did you have any size issues with your lambs and kids (being too large for comfortable birthing?)

I wonder where I can get me some of that "spent" grain.... does not sound so "spent" to me.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Spent grain has virtually no starch so no worries of bloat. it is the lack of starch that make it poor hog feed. the high fiber and protein makes it better sheep and goat feed. the books say up to 75% spent barley in a sheep diet is good. that is what i am seeing a 75% reduction in the hay i have fed this year.
I don't like hogs it is the castration that i dislike. I have hogs to keep coyotes away from my herd. i loose about one sheep a week in the winter i cannot dig a hole the ground is too frozen. if i leave them on the ground the yotes would decimate my herd. so i feed the pigs it is amazing how fast they clean up a carcass bones and all.
i have not had any size issues with kidding i have only had one set of lambs born but wow are they nice. the kids just look so healthy well muscled.
i am in the midst of changing my breed of sheep. for years i have had Targee but 7 years ago on a whim i bought some East Friesian sheep and was blown away by there lamb production. 225% and they had the milk to hold them. i find when i use a dog on them they tend to panic more than targee. what is strange is even though they panic with a dog they don't with a human. they are hard to walk through they wont move out of your way so i have been buying East Friesian rams and breading them to my targee. I really lucked out and when the University of Wisconsin ended there sheep dairy program a local dairy bought some of there breading stock. nice looking sheep.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

fivemoremiles said:


> Spent grain has virtually no starch so no worries of bloat. it is the lack of starch that make it poor hog feed. the high fiber and protein makes it better sheep and goat feed.


OMG, That makes SO much sense.



fivemoremiles said:


> i loose about one sheep a week in the winter i cannot dig a hole the ground is too frozen. if i leave them on the ground the yotes would decimate my herd. so i feed the pigs it is


So sensible. I have a lot of dogs, that is where any loss goes. I have a huge coyote issue. I do lay some of the blame on local hunters that only remove the trophy, not the carcass. I don't know how to educate them, because I'm only a woman. So I deal by having more dogs, that I don't really want, but can't do without.

This is made worse by the fact that the men around here equate their testicles with their dog's testicles. Resulting in more and more "coydogs" which are a serious predator issue, lemme tell ya. These things do NOT fear us, or our livestock. And my county, despite commonwealth law, refuses to have a dog pound or adequate animal control.



fivemoremiles said:


> i have been buying East Friesian rams and breading them to my targee.


I'm a firm fan of cross breeding and hybrid vigour, if it can be fit into our marketing.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow. Wish the breweries around here would do that. They sell it to the larger farmers.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Mariarose, we too have those darn coy dogs. For years the "wildlife officials" refused to acknowledge that a coyote would breed with a dog. My neighbor shot a 75# coyote. Looked like a German Shepard body and coyote head. 

(Sorry, off topic)


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

In many areas the feed mills buy up a lot of the malt sprouts from breweries and make malt sprout pellets. They are fairly easy to find in feed stores.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Hmmm....I wonder what the local small breweries do with theirs? I'll have to check it out. Thank you for writing this. I wonder if spent grains could be fed to horses and chickens?

How do you feed your goats? In a big trough or do you feed each goat individually? How much are they fed once they get used to it?


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Micro brewery's do not sell the spent grain. if they charge they have to bag it and tag it with nutritional info. they don't want to do that they just want to get rid if it. FREE!!


lottsagoats1 said:


> Hmmm....I wonder what the local small breweries do with theirs? I'll have to check it out. Thank you for writing this. I wonder if spent grains could be fed to horses and chickens?
> 
> How do you feed your goats? In a big trough or do you feed each goat individually? How much are they fed once they get used to it?


Great question. I feed my goats in a Rubbermaid water trough. i have found that if you feed to much the goats will not eat it later. so you feed just enough that they clean it up if there is left over the next day you got to dump it or they will not eat the new grain either.

horses like it but i feed it as a treat. and i had an increase in egg production last fall when i fed it to my chickens.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

in the summer you need to watch spoilage so it needs to be fed with in 4 days of brewing and in the winter it freezes so you need to keep it above freezing but there is no rush to feed because it will not spoil in cool weather.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Approximately how many lbs per head do you offer per day? 

25 barrels a week sounds like a LOT


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

It is a lot. 6 lbs. a head a day. that is wet dry it is closer to 3 lbs.
what will really fry you is there are two of us ranchers picking up grain the other ranch blew up there truck and haven't been able to get the parts to repair it. so for the last 4 weeks I have been taking all the grain they have and feeding it. 6 barrels a day. that is 12 lbs. a head or 6 lbs. dry matter. the sheep don't fight to get to the grain they are very content.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Just an update. i just sheared my sheep first I can not count i thought i had 175 ewes but the count from the shearing stand was 199. so my lbs. fed per ewe was off. and i want to comment on the body condition of my ewes. body condition 1 is a skeleton and a 5 is rolly poly fat. my ewes scored a 3.5 t0 a 4. i have lots of triplets and twins coming this year. I have never had my herd look so fat this time of year. also the fleeces were very clean.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That is a great update, very honest and understandable.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

It rain today so I brought my ewes into the barn tonight to dry out and took some pictures as they came in


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow you can really see the body condition there.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Any issues with enterotoexemia you have noticed?


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I have not but i have in the past. i vaccinate my lambs with in 24 hours of birth now. that has stopped it
by the way you are fast i didn't get to see my post before you answered it. i used my phone then switched to my laptop to see it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Look great!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I would love to see pictures of your goats too.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Looking good.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

May I ask how this experience is progressing? I'm terribly curious as I might have a source for brewer's grain now. How much per standard size goat were you feeding? Same or different from your ewes? All the research I've seen is VERY sparse on how to feed spent grain to goats, or even sheep. I really want to know how big a percent of the total diet they can handle without a detriment.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I am still feeding spent grain. since i could not find any information on feeding spent grain i have had to learn by trial and error.
i have found that you can feed too much. if you feed too much over time it will cause a thiamine deficiency. there are thing that i have done that have caused problems. so here are what i did and how i am avoiding problems now.
I was just tipping over the barrels and letting the sheep and goats eat out of the barrels free choice.
this resulted in the strongest in the herd eating way to much and they would get sick. I lost my best buck to a thiamine deficiency. that shook my world and i have made many changes since.

the first thing i did was to spread out the grain so the whole herd had equal access. 
This move helped but i still saw signed of a problem.
the second thing i did was to change the time i fed to the late afternoon. giving the sheep and goats time to fill on grass and hay. 
I think changing the time realy straitened the nutritional needs out.

the last thing i have done is monitor the lbs fed a day.
my goats get fed one lds a day because they are fed in a trough and there is no wast.
I feed my sheep on the ground and they wast allot. the wild ducks love it and clean up the excess . the annual bird count was last week and they counted over 350 ducks on the feeding ground. I feed 3.5 lbs a day to the sheep.
FYI the pounds of spent grain fed is in dry weight. wet weight is double


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are you still very happy with the body conditions of your goat herd at the 1 lb/head/day feeding rate?


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

the sheep have too much wool to tell what there conditioning is. i shear in march.
Sheep are not as susceptible to thiamine deficiency so i worked out a system to feed the spent grain to them first.
thiamine deficiency in sheep shows up as lameness and supper fast hoof growth. in bad cases the ewe will lay down for two or three days then she will get up and go again. rarely will a deficiency cause death.
it has been four months since i have implemented the changes in my feeding to the sheep and i see no sign of problems. the lameness is gone the hoof growth is normal. and i feel that i have found the balance i need for the sheep.

Losing my buck to thiamine deficiency was a real blow. I have played it safe.
Thiamine deficiency in my best buck happened like
this. my buck was a little lethargic in the evening the next morning he was really lethargic and I took him to the vet about one in the afternoon and he died in the vets care early the next morning.

I have just begun to feed spent grain to the goats this week. so there condition has nothing to do with the grain yet. i do know that they eat much more hay than my sheep do.

the Thiamine problem appeared in September i wonder if there is any correlation to the grass changing and storing starch in there roots during that time of the year.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet there is some correlation. Glad you were able to figure it out. Sorry you lost your buck.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Thank you for your insights! I'm so sorry you lost your buck!


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## NicoleV (Dec 12, 2015)

So when you say thiamine deficiency, do you mean goat polio? Or not deficient at that level yet? 

I get small amounts of spent grain from a home-brewer friend. I only feed it to my chickens because I get it very randomly from them, plus I don't regularly feed my goats any grain anyways. They are dry lotted and would get way too fat. 

But another "waste product" that makes good goat treats/supplemental feed was the leftovers from pressing sunflower seed oil. I think it's called sunflower cake. It has all the fiber and protein left, just most of the oils are gone. When my goats had to choose between spent grain or sunflower cake, they went nuts for the sunflower cake!


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

NicoleV said:


> So when you say thiamine deficiency, do you mean goat polio? Or not deficient at that level yet?
> 
> I get small amounts of spent grain from a home-brewer friend. I only feed it to my chickens because I get it very randomly from them, plus I don't regularly feed my goats any grain anyways. They are dry lotted and would get way too fat.
> 
> But another "waste product" that makes good goat treats/supplemental feed was the leftovers from pressing sunflower seed oil. I think it's called sunflower cake. It has all the fiber and protein left, just most of the oils are gone. When my goats had to choose between spent grain or sunflower cake, they went nuts for the sunflower cake!


Goat polio is a bacteria known as listeria.
No it was not listeria.

thiamine is a vitamin B1
spent grain has no sugars and lots of protein. the high protein can cause an imbalance in vitamin B1
The trick is balancing the feed so the B1 is sufficient for the goat
Unlike sheep that give you symptoms of a B1 deficiency, in goats there are none.

Needless to say i have been bit and now i am twice shy.

I started to feed some to my goats last week but i have stopped this week. I am just not comfortable with feeding spent grain yet.
i am in need of more information on the amount and quality of B1 in my hay.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

I've been researching ALL morning. Here is what I have learned via veterinary research papers and university research online:

B1 is thiamine. Goats' rumen bacteria synthesize thiamine as a byproduct of breaking down green matter in the rumen. Thiamine is important for metabolism of starches and sugars, and for nervous system function.

So long as the rumen bacteria are doing their jobs, the goat gets enough thiamine without need for supplementation. Things that prevent thiamine production by the rumen bacteria are: when there is too much concentrate in their diets (this is likely why @fivemoremiles buck got thiamine deficiency), when they stop eating when ill, feeding moldy hay, when you've killed the rumen bacteria somehow, or when they stop drinking so the rumen cannot work.

There are 2 illnesses that look very similar: goat polioencephalomalacia and listeriosis. Goat polio is caused by vitamin B1 deficiency and results in brain necrosis(death) from lack of nutrition. Listeriosis is caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, which causes inflammation of the brain. Both present with similar symptoms and are very fast killers. Testing for which one is killing your goat takes time you don't have. Instead, treat immediately for both. Symptoms include: depression, lost appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in only one direction, circling, head pulled to flank with rigid neck, blindness, lack jaw, drooling, involuntary eye movement, lack of eye focus, muscle tremors.

Treatment for both is simple but time consuming: high concentration injections of penicillin and B1 or Fortified B-Complex every 6 hours until 24 hours after symptoms are over. Help them eat/drink. Probiotics to support rumen health. Also, correct whatever stopped rumen function in case of B1 deficiency.

End result: feed the rumen bacteria=feed the goat. Hope they don't catch listeriosis from the environment. Too much concentrates can kill them, but just enough helps them flourish. Thiamine CAN be in hay, but that's not where they get it - goats get it from the rumen bacteria when they break down greens the goat ate.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I totally agree. you got to feed the gut bugs.
my problem was i thought the goat would regulate them selves. nope i was wrong.
singinggoatgirl well written post


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Great breakdown, @singinggoatgirl 
I have a friendly acquaintence who lives close to the Bourbon Trail here in KY. He raises hair sheep and utilizes spent grain that he can get with ease and affordability. I can't get it nearly as easily and used to be envious. With your explanation, and others having different experiences with sheep and goats, I'm kinda glad I can't, now. Who knows, that may have been one more way I killed goats that I need to warn people of here...

"Been there, Done that, Killed her horribly, Don't do that..."


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

The real point here is moderation in all thing. too much of a good thing is never a good.
I am still feeding spent grain just feeding it smarter and more carefully.


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## Eshariff (Mar 21, 2020)

I wanted hear from @fivemoremiles , @singinggoatgirl and others on any progress/changes/updates on using spent grain for goats.

I have some spent grain available from a local brewery.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

I wish I could get spent grain locally! I feed fermented grains now but it’s a lot more work than just picking it up!


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## Eshariff (Mar 21, 2020)

CBPitts said:


> I wish I could get spent grain locally! I feed fermented grains now but it's a lot more work than just picking it up!


What do you have to do for the fermented grains? Rinse it?


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Nothing to report. Never found the right person at the distillery to talk to, so never fed it.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Spent grain from beer is not fermented. the fermenting process comes after the grain is cooked and the grain is then removed and the yeast is then added. The yeast then starts the fermenting process.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

Would a cobalt block help with the Thiamine issues?


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Good question I do not know. But i found as long as i fed less than 20% of there daily feed you are OK. the worst mistake i made was i fed in a feeder that the biggest buck could totally dominate and he died from polio


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

R.Williamson said:


> Would a cobalt block help with the Thiamine issues?


All ruminants (including sheep, cattle and goats) require cobalt in their diet for the synthesis of vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 is essential for energy metabolism and the production of red blood cells. Cobalt deficiency in soils can cause vitamin B12 deficiency in livestock. 

Source: Cobalt deficiency in sheep and cattle | Agriculture and Food


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> All ruminants (including sheep, cattle and goats) require cobalt in their diet for the synthesis of vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 is essential for energy metabolism and the production of red blood cells. Cobalt deficiency in soils can cause vitamin B12 deficiency in livestock.
> 
> Source: Cobalt deficiency in sheep and cattle | Agriculture and Food


I keep a cobalt block out. I was just curious if it would specifically address the problem mentioned in regards to thiamine deficiency with the Brewers grains., or if there is something of a similar nature that could be used in regards to thiamine.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

fivemoremiles said:


> Good question I do not know. But i found as long as i fed less than 20% of there daily feed you are OK. the worst mistake i made was i fed in a feeder that the biggest buck could totally dominate and he died from polio


Thank you. Your info is really helpful.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

R.Williamson said:


> I keep a cobalt block out. I was just curious if it would specifically address the problem mentioned in regards to thiamine deficiency with the Brewers grains


I also keep a cobalt block available. Thiamine is B1, and I would assume the B12/iodine found in cobalt blocks couldn't provide a supplemental form of B1 which comes from other sources. To the best of my knowledge, Vitamin B12 Complex has B1 (thiamine) included/added to the formula.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> I also keep a cobalt block available. Thiamine is B1, and I would assume the B12/iodine found in cobalt blocks couldn't provide a supplemental form of B1 which comes from other sources. To the best of my knowledge, Vitamin B12 Complex has B1 (thiamine) included/added to the formula.


Yes, complex does have it. I just wasn't 100% sure if there might be a way to supplement like with the cobalt block. I knew it helped with B12 .Just wasn't sure if it would help with the other. I will have to look into some things.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

I have played around with both spent brewers grains and corn mash left over from making whiskey. The idea of free feed is pretty exciting! My easy keeper doe has started to founder every time I have fed those grain by products to her. I'm sure that there would be a way to feed them to her, but it would have to be in very, very minimal amounts. She is also one that I have to cut down her regular feed ration, which is 14% protein, if I am feeding a lot of a nicer hay that has alfalfa or clover in it, or again, she will start to founder. 
So that is just something to watch out for if you're feeding spent grains to your own goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No, the colbalt block will not help thiamine deficiency. B-1 should be injected for quick results.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> No, the colbalt block will not help thiamine deficiency. B-1 should be injected for quick results.


Thank you. I was hoping there was a supplement or some such that could either be added into the feed or readily available to them. Guess there isn't. B-1 is typically on hand. By the time they show signs of the deficiency you gotta act pretty quick so we keep it around for that purpose.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, you are correct.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

lol I do not think I will be feeding spent grains for very long. My goats are NOT fans of it at all. I have been mixing it with their normal feed. They have all gone on a hunger strike refusing to eat it. Looks like it may end up being feed for my chickens


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I mixed mine in with their dairy pellets and they eat it right down. The horses love it- feed it to them at the same % as the goats 2 to 1 (dairy pellets/horse feed to spent grains) with added alfalfa and or beet pulp.


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

lottsagoats1 said:


> I mixed mine in with their dairy pellets and they eat it right down. The horses love it- feed it to them at the same % as the goats 2 to 1 (dairy pellets/horse feed to spent grains) with added alfalfa and or beet pulp.


We tried mixing it but they would simply eat around the brewers grains and then beg for more feed. Our lower ranked does were happy with that situation because then they were not playing merry go rounds on feed pans once the pelleted feed was gone. SO I had about 3 does who would eat it


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