# Alternatives to lute?



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Is there any way to abort a doe without getting something from a vet?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm not sure of any.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, I know a lot of different things CAN cause abortions, like Valbazen at the wrong time, but I haven't heard of anything that will for certain sure do it. And of course safety is an issue too.

I'm sorry you are needing to abort, if you are needing to abort....


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah I am and the vet is not cooperating  I really don't want to have to dump $200 into a farm visit so that they will give me some lute.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Grrr. My vet charges a lot less if I take the goat in. Is that an option?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

That's ridiculous. Are there any other vets you can try? They don't have to be a livestock vet. I'm pretty sure Lute is used in lots of species including dogs.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

mariarose said:


> Grrr. My vet charges a lot less if I take the goat in. Is that an option?


Kind of I guess. But it would hardly be less expensive.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Damfino said:


> That's ridiculous. Are there any other vets you can try? They don't have to be a livestock vet. I'm pretty sure Lute is used in lots of species including dogs.


I did not know that. There are quite a few cat and dog vets around here. I will call around


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Kind of I guess. But it would hardly be less expensive.


Sorry, For us it is big difference, so we always take ours in unless we have several to be taken care of, like blood testing.

No, I don't know how to draw blood myself...


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I've never actually had a farm visit before, I usually take them in. The price they quoted me was just the same as what they usually charge for regular visits.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I have a good relationship with my vet and can get the drugs I need just by calling her and asking for it.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

It is Insane the cost difference between states. My vet bill for 4 health certs in Idaho was 70$. Here in SoCal it would be that much for each exam.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

wifeof1 said:


> It is Insane the cost difference between states. My vet bill for 4 health certs in Idaho was 70$. Here in SoCal it would be that much for each exam.


It was $65 when I called for someone out of state shopping BUT I walk threw that door needing help and it's $100 just to enter and even then the only goat I got back alive was one with a broken leg so that's usually pretty expensive for a dead animal. I can not get farm visits and I can not get a vet to give me ANY RX. I called about lute once and the only vet that is half way willing to deal with Goats (if he's not busy with horses) told me it wasn't labeled for Goats and would not give it to me. With the price and lack of knowledge I'm pretty much anti vet


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm similarly embittered at the moment.

We need to encourage more young people to become vets and when we are talking to them about it, stress how big goats are becoming. It's just a good business decision to learn about goats.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

The cost and time for the education is pretty close to an MD. That is part of the problem.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, I know. That is what is stopping me...!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

^^^ if your grades are up to snuff, check out Oregon state. They have a goat vet program and it doesn't take 30 years or a million dollars to do it. 
There's many scholarships out there for women.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> I'm similarly embittered at the moment.
> 
> We need to encourage more young people to become vets and when we are talking to them about it, stress how big goats are becoming. It's just a good business decision to learn about goats.


They still think you are on crack when you tell them how big they are getting and that your not buying $50 Goats. I don't even attempt to explain it any more. One vet I went to years ago with a doe with preg. Tox. Flat out told me when she is closer to her due date I would just knock her in the head and take the kids out. I was like well that's not going to happen so can you just put the IV in for me please. Even then he didn't want to he said it went against his policy to send any animal with a IV home and he didn't have a place to keep a goat but then he asked how many goats I had, did I have any other livestock blah blah he realized I'm not totally clueless (just semi) and put it in for me.
I understand most vets here are worried about a lawsuit but it's getting really old because if that was a cow then I would have been home free.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Suzanne_Tyler 
What, if anything, have you decided to do? And in the interest of educating all the new goat members I see posting now, do you feel comfortable telling us the reason for this step?

I'm not prying, just thinking it might be helpful for them.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I really don't know what I'm going to do at this point. Haven't heard back from either of the vets I called. I guess I'll keep trying. 

I've got 2 CAE+ does. They weren't supposed to get bred this year. I have a nice pet home they will be going to next month for retirement. I just can't go through bottle feeding again, like I did last year. Anyways, buck jumped the fence. I don't *think* either of them were in heat, but they're going to be leaving for their new home before I can figure out if they're for sure bred or not, and lute won't hurt if they aren't bred. So I'm wanting to play it safe and lute them just in case. 

As for the buck. He has a date with the processor for the 7th. He got his apron off and I still have no idea how he got through the fence. He was going to go to the processor eventually anyways, but now he's showed up in the doe pen every morning for the last 4 days


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

Just call any dairy farmer or AI breeder for dairy farms. They can get you a needle full in a heart beat. Make friends with real, commercial farmers to get things done affordably and professionally. 2cc of Lute and 4cc of dexamethasone. A farrow to finish hog operator will have both as well.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Suzanne_Tyler There are a lot of Pork producers in your State. But are they in your area or further East?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What I hear you saying, Suzanne, is that your vets are actually promoting the spread of CAE????

Have you presented it to them in this way?

I don't know that would help. but maybe???

Thank you for answering the question of why a responsible breeder such as yourself would choose to abort. That was well explained.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

mariarose said:


> @Suzanne_Tyler There are a lot of Pork producers in your State. But are they in your area or further East?


I haven't really researched it, but I've never heard of any close by either. There is mostly chicken farming around here.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

The 2 vets I normally use haven't answered any phones calls or emails. No idea why. Same numbers I've always used. 

I called 2 other places (cat and dog vets) - one flat out refused and one got my name and number and said they'd call me back. I'm hopeful


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh my word. I may be switching vets. This random vet I have absolutely no connection with agreed to give me lute without seeing them


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That's great. How are his/her prices? But I'd pay more to have a reasonable vet when I need him.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I am not really sure what the regular visit prices are, but they're selling me the lute for $36.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yay for vets who truly care about helping animals and not just following all the picky federal rules, which seem to multiply by the day! Legally, I'm not sure vets are allowed to prescribe medications any longer without actually seeing the animal, but most of them are aware how difficult this is for small producers with minor problems who are also perfectly capable of treating said problems themselves. I hope this starts you on a good new relationship. Does this vet treat livestock? 

Also, for that price I really hope they're selling you the bottle and not just a single shot. Glad you made some calls and found someone to work with you!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I think they treat livestock, but not totally sure.


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## coteauprarielivin (Oct 23, 2017)

Just an FYI, most dairy farmers will have Lute, and oxytocin. Some big dairys even have an onsite vet. That could be a good way to go. I'm really glad I have a great vet in my area.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Just fyi, to get around the federal rules. 
Once a year we do a "well farm check-up". It basically involves the vet coming out, walking around the goat areas, and pointing out if he sees a problem area. 
It's cheap insurance for several reasons but, mainly, he's seen all your animals that year for prescribing meds and if there is ever an animal control complaint he can witness for you.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

You really just have to find a vet that's willing to work with you, and that can be difficult. See if this one treats livestock and would be a good regular vet to continue working with. 
My old vet wouldn't give me lute whether or not she'd been to the farm recently. I had to go in and pay for an exam, and she would give it to them(at $15 per dose!) It was a big pain, as she wouldn't trust me enough to prescribe most stuff.
My new vet is amazing, I can get whatever I need from her. She'll let me come get stuff out of her truck if I need it and she isn't around.

Is old Eb leaving?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes he is


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

How long after breeding should I give them the lute? I've read to do it at 7,10, and 21 days


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I've always been told to give it at least 10 days out. After that it will cause abortion at any stage.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It takes 14 days for the egg to attach so to the uterus so after 14 days. 
Now I think you said you were not 100% sure they got bred? Do not let the buck get back with them. If they really were open and you give the shot of lute and they had a egg waiting to drop it’s going to drop and they will be able to be bred. If they really are bred then they will have a heat but nothing to get fertile but still I would keep the buck away just in case, I have a few does that have a due date for January but also again in February so clearly even though they were bred it didn’t take that first time.
Also keep that date the buck got in wrote down. It doesn’t happen often but did happen to me once and even though I gave lute I still had the cutest little baby born 5 months after the buck bred a doeling. Spending hours going back threw messages looking for when I wrote to my friend asking for lute was not my idea of fun lol


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