# Leash Training Goats



## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Can goats learn to walk on a leash nicely? I've had my heart set on teaching them to walk on a leash but I am not seeing any progress. They stop to eat, which is not something I want. Can anyone share their experiences or tips?


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## Heathersboergoats (Feb 18, 2019)

They can it, it will take a lot of work for the to walk nicely. If you can get them away from the food onto dirt or gravel. Having treats when working on getting them to walk is a must. I can't think of anything else right now. Good luck!


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> Can goats learn to walk on a leash nicely? I've had my heart set on teaching them to walk on a leash but I am not seeing any progress. They stop to eat, which is not something I want. Can anyone share their experiences or tips?


Hi, Iam a new goat mummy of two months, with two 8month old Pygmy kids.
I wanted to be able to take them for walks, to give them a change of area, and to help to keep their hooves bit shorter.
All I do, is put a collar on, did not get on well with harness, and a twin lead, and take them both together, the doe is more forward going, the wether tends to stop and stand, so I gently tug on his collar and push his rump, once he moves forward, praise him with fuss or little treat. My husband and I go out together sometimes with single leads.
Once they are out onto the Bank top, they seem happy, and now look forwards to their daily little walk, I only go out for about 10/15 mins, always aware of cars and dogs though. If they stop to eat, whilst I wait for car to pass etc, I let them, but gently move them on with collar and rump action. They sometimes go for little runs, and can be quick.
They are naturally skitty little things, and can be stubborn, and not dogs but now they are used to going out, I take them separate for more training, hope you get on ok, and take care.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> Can goats learn to walk on a leash nicely? I've had my heart set on teaching them to walk on a leash but I am not seeing any progress. They stop to eat, which is not something I want. Can anyone share their experiences or tips?


Are you using a collar, harness or head halter?

Made a mistake and used a head halter first for training lead. Resulted in stiff legged, backing up posturing and circling. They acted like little stubborn mules time after time. So, bad habits were being developed from that goof.

Switched to collars and a lead instead and they learned the lead meant follow/come with. (It took a little time to erase the bad habits picked up from my premature and improper halter training though.) From there taught them to stand in one place patiently, whether lead was being held by me or tied to something stationary. They grasped the concept the lead meant they were no longer permitted to do whatever pleased them while attached to it.

Once the collar manners were well learned, they graduated back to head halters. A halter gives the human more control over where or which direction the head can travel. There were times when the leash had to be held closer to the head to restrict undesirable behavior, but never to the point of snatching them around. After a while and a heap of praising words and only a few scolding words, they graduated full time to a longer leash length.

Be patient, kind, consistent, praise often even after they master what you want them to learn. Pay attention to the visual cues and personality traits they give off to help you be able to stay 1 step ahead of them. Take the leadership role while respecting their limitations. They most certainly can learn what you expect of them, some just take longer than others.


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## Nigerian Dwarfs (Aug 25, 2020)

I have the same problem!! Sunflower seeds help their coats, and they love them, so I use them as treats. Just today I was working with them, and they behaved a bit better (for them...XD). I use a harness on 1, a collar on the other, but I want to try using harness on both (we do not have a second harness). I find that taking the less dominant goat makes the other on follow, but we only have two...I hope this helps!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Here's Mark Warnke's video on training goats to lead. He owns pack goats.com, a pack goat equipment company. I've found a lot of his videos helpful.


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Nigerian Dwarfs said:


> I have the same problem!! Sunflower seeds help their coats, and they love them, so I use them as treats. Just today I was working with them, and they behaved a bit better (for them...XD). I use a harness on 1, a collar on the other, but I want to try using harness on both (we do not have a second harness). I find that taking the less dominant goat makes the other on follow, but we only have two...I hope this helps!


Thank you, yes my Doe is the leader I will keep trying, like the video other reader sent too.


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

GoofyGoat said:


> Here's Mark Warnke's video on training goats to lead. He owns pack goats.com, a pack goat equipment company. I've found a lot of his videos helpful.


Excellant, thank you, its bit like training equine, I will certainly be trying this method, take care


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Dee4 said:


> Excellant, thank you, its bit like training equine, I will certainly be trying this method, take care


I hope it helps. Just remember, nigies are VERY food motivated so don't discount that advice either.


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Yes, thank you, I've just giving my boy a training lesson, he can be stubborn, but I also think as he is young, he also is be cautious.
I tried the technic from the video on training, it will take some patience, but I hope that turning him, rather than the pull or push on the bum, in time he will become more forwards going, once he is out and onto the walking track, he is pretty good, but still tends to just stop, I will keep you posted. Thank you


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Are you using a collar, harness or head halter?
> 
> Made a mistake and used a head halter first for training lead. Resulted in stiff legged, backing up posturing and circling. They acted like little stubborn mules time after time. So, bad habits were being developed from that goof.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice, I am very patient with my boy and do what you are saying, as they are smart animals, hope in time they will become better, although I also appreciate that they are goats and not dogs ( lol) take care


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

GoofyGoat said:


> Here's Mark Warnke's video on training goats to lead. He owns pack goats.com, a pack goat equipment company. I've found a lot of his videos helpful.


That's what I've always done, turn them in circle. If they don't turn they fall over.
Nigerian kids, I turn them in tight circles, and then wider circles.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Goats are very trainable and can easily learn to walk on a leash with a little consistent training. I like to train my goats to stand tied while I brush, trim hooves, etc. so they learn not to pull against the collar. Tying introduces them to the idea of pressure/release.

I like to use treats to reward forward movement at first, but I don't reward them when they jump on me or mob me for cookies. They only get a reward for doing what I ask. Verbally praise at the same time and they'll learn to associate that praise with reward and good behavior. I find that once they're trained, my goats are generally better-behaved on a leash than most dogs. They don't drag me around and I don't have to drag them either. I take my goats all over the place, including parades where we face a lot of distractions and scary things. Having my goats desensitized to traffic, loud noises, strange sights, and out-of-control dogs is really important. I work up to those things from the time they're young and soon they trust me when I tell them to keep moving forward. Once they trust me I don't have to worry about spookums.

My goats also know that they aren't allowed to stop for snacks until I give permission. If they pull me toward a bush or stop to eat grass, I tell them "walk on!" while tugging the leash to make them keep coming. I reward with a treat as soon as they follow. They quickly learn good manners. Once the training is solid I let them stop and eat from time to time, but as soon as I tell them we're moving on, I expect them to come with me and not argue about it.

This is my packgoat, Finn, visiting a nursing home. As you can see, a goat his size would be a menace if he weren't properly leash trained. He could easily drag these little old ladies all over the grounds and destroy the landscaping if he weren't taught good manners and self-control.


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Goats are very trainable and can easily learn to walk on a leash with a little consistent training. I like to train my goats to stand tied while I brush, trim hooves, etc. so they learn not to pull against the collar. Tying introduces them to the idea of pressure/release.
> 
> I like to use treats to reward forward movement at first, but I don't reward them when they jump on me or mob me for cookies. They only get a reward for doing what I ask. Verbally praise at the same time and they'll learn to associate that praise with reward and good behavior. I find that once they're trained, my goats are generally better-behaved on a leash than most dogs. They don't drag me around and I don't have to drag them either. I take my goats all over the place, including parades where we face a lot of distractions and scary things. Having my goats desensitized to traffic, loud noises, strange sights, and out-of-control dogs is really important. I work up to those things from the time they're young and soon they trust me when I tell them to keep moving forward. Once they trust me I don't have to worry about spookums.
> 
> ...


Wow he is stunning, after reading your post, I now know that I have more training to do, and will take on board what you do, best I can, many thanks, take care


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Thank you so much! We're very proud of our lovely Finn. 

If you can strike that balance between being gentle and firm, and if you can remain consistent in your commands your goats will develop confidence in you as a kind and trustworthy leader. Some people lose patience and then lose their goat's trust by being unfair or unkind, but far more people have the problem of being _too_ kind and patient. They aren't firm and confident enough in their commands and don't follow through on making sure the goat complies. This undermines your goat's trust and it certainly undermines his obedience. Don't expect too much at once (after all, he's not trained yet), but also don't underestimate your goat's intelligence and require too little. They are very smart and if we don't train them, they are excellent at training us!


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Thank you so much! We're very proud of our lovely Finn.
> 
> If you can strike that balance between being gentle and firm, and if you can remain consistent in your commands your goats will develop confidence in you as a kind and trustworthy leader. Some people lose patience and then lose their goat's trust by being unfair or unkind, but far more people have the problem of being _too_ kind and patient. They aren't firm and confident enough in their commands and don't follow through on making sure the goat complies. This undermines your goat's trust and it certainly undermines his obedience. Don't expect too much at once (after all, he's not trained yet), but also don't underestimate your goat's intelligence and require too little. They are very smart and if we don't train them, they are excellent at training us!


You are amazing to take the time to write so much information, which all makes sense, I've just got to learn and remember what you have said, Iam going to make a training list, and makes notes of progress hopefully, and issues if any. Sending lots of love from U.K.


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## Nigerian Dwarfs (Aug 25, 2020)

So I have been working on them (I use sunflower seeds as treats). They are behaving very nicely, my only problem is one is OBSESSED with food (as in eating everything she sees), no matter what I do!! Any suggestions?


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Thank you all very much for your tips! Just an update: my goats are not learning! I am so discouraged. I've been training them for a little over a month and from day to day there is no progress. They walk really slow and then they walk fast and then they jump in front of me or twist around me. I've just been using a collar and a leash and treats, either animal crackers or apples. Should there be a punishment for when they mess up? How long of a process is this?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Usually it doesn't take too long. How big are your goats? If they are pretty large/strong I recommend training with a halter. I prefer the Sopris X halters because they fit the best. 
https://www.soprisunlimited.com/halters

Are you trying to walk them both at once? If so, that is going to be a problem. It's hard to train two animals at once. If you're training just one at a time (while letting the other follow along behind), then I'm going to guess it's a technique/consistency problem on your end that is confusing your goats and making it hard for you to gain their respect and obedience. You don't need to punish your goats for messing up--that will only undermine their trust and make them hate going with you. However, it should be uncomfortable for them to ignore you. If they jerk the leash and try to pull you toward a clover patch, for example, give a verbal attention-getter (like "Hey-hey!") and tug hard on the leash several times until they come back to you. Then slacken the lead and praise immediately when they respond. It usually isn't a long process if you're consistent.

Another thing that can help is teaching with a riding whip. I train my goats to drive in harness so I have to have them "lead" from behind rather then from the halter/collar. I stand on the goat's left side with the leash in my right hand and a dressage whip in my left. When the goat stops, I say "Walk on!", reach behind me with the whip, and tap the goat on the hind leg. If the goat ignores me I swat instead of tap. They soon learn to respect the whip and move forward with a light tap cue. Before long the verbal command to "Walk on!" is enough. Always praise and reward when you get the response you want and they'll respond more quickly and more correctly each time. Good luck!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

My goats are about 80 pounds. 
When I train them, I put them both on a leash at the same time. I tied one to the fence, and take one of the enclose to walk separately. I say "walk" so he has a command and then good boy and then treat. I take that goat back, tie him up, and take out the other one.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

With some of the harder/lazier/more stubborn breeds we’ve had better luck with 2 people working together. 

Preferably the more willing goat in front, lots of treats, encouragement, and praise with the less willing goat behind in the follow position. 

We follow pretty much the same instructions as listed above but working in pairs. Goats hate to be alone so this seems less stressful for the beginning stages. Eventually they do more work solo and are expected to behave. 

Setting up to succeed is also important. Taking a dry lotted goat to a driveway bordered by delicious weeds or delicacy treats like backyard flower beds is setting up the goat for failure.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

@Damfino A problem I've been having with my goats is that they lean into me. I hold the leash in my right hand and they walk on my left side. Their heads are always being bashed by my legs and our legs and feet get tangled. How do I correct this? I rarely have trouble with them resisting the tug of the leash. Sometimes they run in front of me real fast or circle me. The main problems now is that they are too close to my side.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I wrote an article about training goats to drive and it has a section on training them to lead properly and respectfully. It talks about teaching the goat not to bang into you with the cart shafts, which is the principle you're going for. You might find it helpful. 
https://www.goatorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Drive-My-Goat.pdf


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

My goats tend to walk faster on the way home than on the way back. How do I correct this?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Walking faster towards home is perfectly normal goat behavior and they will probably always do it to some extent. As long as they are learning to listen to your correction instead of dragging you around by their leashes and demanding you to keep up with them it's not a problem. They'll get better the more you practice. Are their manners improving in other ways?


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Walking faster towards home is perfectly normal goat behavior and they will probably always do it to some extent. As long as they are learning to listen to your correction instead of dragging you around by their leashes and demanding you to keep up with them it's not a problem. They'll get better the more you practice. Are their manners improving in other ways?


Every day is different. Some days they do really good, and then they have bad days where they are always walking faster than me or leaning very far into me. When they get to a certain point ahead of me, I turned sharply around so that they have to pay attention to me for direction.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm glad they're making progress. It takes time. Here is a bit of encouragement for you. I wrote this on a different forum three years ago after I got back from a trip to Kansas City:

_I took the boys walking on the Indian Creek trailway that runs for over 20 miles around Kansas City. We only explored part of it of course. There were quite a few people on the trail so I spent a lot of time stopping to explain why I had goats parading around the city on leashes. Finn and Sputnik were very well-mannered so it was quite a pleasant day. Thinking back, a walk like this would have been miserable two years ago. I'd have had a terrible time trying to control both goats by myself, and I'd have had to deal with balking, spooking, bolting, fighting, and trying to go back. Our boys have come a long way in their training. They walk nicely beside me so I can hold a leash in each hand without fussing. They obey voice commands very well, so if one needs to speed up or slow down I can control him with a word and a slight tug on the leash. They don't balk or spook at dogs, bikes, baby strollers, sirens, or blowing trash. Well-trained goats are such a joy to walk with and I don't think I realized how good our boys have gotten until that day. Training takes time and progresses in baby steps. Sometimes it's hard to see those small improvements until one day you look back and suddenly realize how far you've come--that they finally feel like they've "arrived". _


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Thank you for that encouragement! I can't wait for that day!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

It is definitely a process, but it's very rewarding when you look back and go "Wow! Look at us go!" 

Part of the problem I think you're encountering is that it sounds like you are just as new to training as your goats are. Teaching a new task might take an experienced person a week, but it could take you quite a bit longer because you are having to learn pressure, release, timing, appropriate responses, etc. It's a big learning curve for all of you, but if you succeed with the two you have now, the next ones will be SO much easier! I made a lot of mistakes with my first goat even though I'd successfully trained horses and dogs. But goats are a little different and I had to learn a few things the hard way, but eventually we muddled through and were successful.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

When you guys say a long process, how long exactly do you mean? I've been working on it for over three months and we can only go for about a 5 minute walk (out and back). On top of that, I tried to walk a goat on my left side yesterday and it was HORRIBLE. Absolutely terrible. I'm very discouraged.


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## friesian49 (Jul 2, 2018)

I found my Boers liked a certain halter - nylon versus the inexpensive rope halter. I put those on them, used some animal crackers as motivation, and got them to follow me all over the pasture. Then we progressed to going outside the pasture. I take them out to eat some grass on the walks, so it's usually very pleasant, until I'm in the middle getting pulled by two nearly 200 pound girls that both find grass in the other direction they want to eat! But I just make one move in one direction and we're good. 

I use their collars when we are walking in the woods and they are off leash or if it's really hot out and I think they won't follow me and I'll have to chase them. I've found walking them on collars isn't fun for either of us - if they pull I think I'm choking them and it goes downhill from there. With the halters, they may give a head shake or two, but they knock it off pretty quick. Good luck!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Halters help a lot. That said, it doesn't usually take months to train goats to walk with you. Usually a couple of weeks to get them going pretty good. The only reason your goat did horribly on your left is because he's accustomed to walking on your right and you totally messed up his day! When leash training I like to switch sides from the beginning so I don't start them in a rut. However, they can learn new things. Have you tried clicker training them at all? I've found that goats learn very quickly with clicker training. When the do something right, click your tongue and immediately offer a reward. Do some research on clicker training techniques (there are lots of websites out there) and start clicker training them at home first. I taught a couple of my goats to follow a target in less than ten minutes the other day. Work with them one at a time so you don't confuse them and get mobbed. Start simple and work up. Once they know that the click means, "Good job, do that again!" they start doing their best to please you and get that reward. Then you apply the lessons to leash training. Click and reward when they walk nicely beside you without crossing in front or trying to turn back or eat goodies next to the road. At first it might just be a few steps between rewards, but as you make progress you keep adding more steps between clicks. And you do the same for walking the goat on your other side.

I'm sorry it's been frustrating. I think you might be too critical of yourself and perhaps you aren't expecting quite enough from your goats. You need to be firm and confident in your commands and follow through with making them obey. Then reward generously when they get it right. Don't give up!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Have you tried clicker training them at all? I've found that goats learn very quickly with clicker training. When the do something right, click your tongue and immediately offer a reward.


I do train with a clicker, not will my tongue, however.



Damfino said:


> I'm sorry it's been frustrating. I think you might be too critical of yourself and perhaps you aren't expecting quite enough from your goats.


I think I have not been challenging them enough and that is my fault. For a long time, we did the same walks/distances over and over and I thought I was expecting too much out of my goats. I'm going to start really pushing the distances. 



Damfino said:


> Don't give up!


I was truly thinking about it the other day. We had a terrible day at training and I really broke down. I thought my goats were stupid and how could they not know how to walk on a leash after all this time. I spend on average 10 minutes a day with each goat training, so twenty minutes a day every day for months. I had invested so much time I didn't want to quit, but I also did not want to keep wasting my time. I think I've gotten away from this a little bit and I'm ready to train, but not hopeful.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't be afraid to challenge your goats a little more. If your goats think you're even the slightest bit of a pushover, they'll walk all over you and they'll never learn anything. You have to be confident and no-nonsense in your training and sometimes just plain be more stubborn than they are. I had to practically drag one of my young wethers all the way down my _very long_ driveway the other day because he decided he didn't want to come walking. My husband and I had four goats between us, so there was no reason for him to not want to come with. Also, we've been taking him for walks for several months now, usually without much trouble. So I wrapped the leash around my fist and crossed my arm over my body for extra leverage so I could lean all my weight against his, and then I put my head down and trudged forward one step at a time with that little stinker leaving four grooves in the gravel behind him. Once the house was out of sight I let him off the leash and he just followed like everybody else. He'll have his good days and his bad days as time goes on, and I'm sure we'll have a few more dragging sessions before he learns that fighting the leash won't work. If I say we're starting a walk, he's coming whether or not he feels like it, and we're going to keep walking until I say it's time to turn around--because I said so!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Don't be afraid to challenge your goats a little more. If your goats think you're even the slightest bit of a pushover, they'll walk all over you and they'll never learn anything. You have to be confident and no-nonsense in your training and sometimes just plain be more stubborn than they are. I had to practically drag one of my young wethers all the way down my _very long_ driveway the other day because he decided he didn't want to come walking. My husband and I had four goats between us, so there was no reason for him to not want to come with. Also, we've been taking him for walks for several months now, usually without much trouble. So I wrapped the leash around my fist and crossed my arm over my body for extra leverage so I could lean all my weight against his, and then I put my head down and trudged forward one step at a time with that little stinker leaving four grooves in the gravel behind him. Once the house was out of sight I let him off the leash and he just followed like everybody else. He'll have his good days and his bad days as time goes on, and I'm sure we'll have a few more dragging sessions before he learns that fighting the leash won't work. If I say we're starting a walk, he's coming whether or not he feels like it, and we're going to keep walking until I say it's time to turn around--because I said so!


I took your advice these last two days I am impressed! With my one goat, we got our farthest distance yet! He likes to stop and walk slow, but I just kept my pace and dragged him. In southcentral PA where I live, it was super warm today and my goats started panting like dogs on our walks!

I will give my updates on my training as they happen!

Thanks!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm glad you made some progress! Don't be discouraged if they regress from time to time. Just be consistent and they will learn to trust and obey. When you train animals it's important to be both firm and fair. 

There's nothing wrong with giving your boys enough exercise to make them pant, but if you get them wethered they'll have less hair and less muscle mass so they won't get so hot on your walks.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

I keep coming back to this thread because new questions come up all this time!

Until now, I have been walking my goats separately. Today, I put them together and they didn't do _bad. _But they didn't walk good. When they are separated, if one walks too slow or doesn't walk, I drag them. And if one walks faster than me, I spin around and tug him back to my side. 

My question is: How do I correct a goat (say on my right side) that is walking too fast without hurting the goat on the left?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Don't spin around if one goes too fast. Just tug-tug-tug on his leash until he slows down, then reward by releasing pressure on the leash. If you're clicker training, when he backs off is when you click and reward. If you spin you can't walk two goats at once without getting tangled in leashes. If you take a leash in each hand, you can generally correct each goat independently without affecting the other. It just takes practice.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Hello again, I got my sister to film me walking my goats yesterday. There are about 10 minutes of footage altogether, so if anyone can watch a little and give me suggestions that would be great. The one with the red leash is Clark, and the one with the black is Lewis. Forgive my rough appearance! The first video is of them walking together. That is where I need a lot of help. I was walking faster than I normally would in that video to keep up with their pace, which is something I need to fix. Also, Lewis is constantly leaning into my leg. Around 1:25 on the first video, they got spooked by a dog bark...they always get scared by that dog. 




Lewis:




Clark:


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I haven't had time to watch your videos these last few days, but I'm looking forward to it when I get a chance!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

So I finally got to watch your videos this morning and your goats are coming along very nicely! It's not easy to train two goats to walk nicely with you at once, and although they did get away from you a bit around 1:30 when the dog barked, you got them back under control pretty quickly and continued your walk as though nothing happened. When you went back to the same spot the second time it looks like your goats minded very well and didn't spook, balk, or try to rush past the area. That's great! It means they're learning to trust you and it also means they want to be with you. If goats don't want to be with you, they'll make all kinds of excuses to be somewhere else, and passing the same spot where a dog barked last time is reason enough for a reluctant goat to try to run away even if the dog isn't there any more. I noticed they walked a little faster when you turned around at that spot the second time, but they didn't try to get away again. Part of it is also that it looks like they like to run downhill. But you corrected them properly so with consistent training they'll learn to walk slower. 

Your goats are doing great at ignoring all the lush green grass and browse on either side of the road. They're both more interested in whatever you have in your pockets, but even though they do look at you often for treats, they're not mobbing you. It looks like you're doing a good job ignoring them when they beg and this is the best way to train them not to be interested in treats until you actually offer one. Lewis' tendency to lean on your leg could either be his way of coming in close for treats, or it could be he wants to walk on the other side. Either way, just keep walking "through" him like you're doing and he should eventually learn to stop. It's ok to bump him extra hard with your knee or foot so he learns that it's not comfortable to lean in.

Both goats look like they're doing very well with the one-on-on walking. Your turns are very nice and your goats look like they're happy and paying attention to you instead of trying to get back to their buddy in the pen. Clark looks like he's especially interested in treats. He keeps looking up at you like he's expecting a reward any time. That's ok. You are ignoring him well. I'd rather see a goat be over-eager than dull and uninterested. Our goat Finn has a habit of refusing all treats when he gets into a sulk about something we're doing. For example, he hates pulling the cart and only does it because we make him. We try to give him treats to reward him for his efforts, but he turns his nose the other way until the harness is off. It's his loss--he has to pull the cart whether he takes treats for it or not, but it's less fun to work with an animal that's sulking. My goat Sputnik is on the over-eager end of the spectrum when it comes to treats and I've had to train him to back off of me, but it makes him more fun to work with because he's eager to do whatever task it takes to earn a reward. 

Good job working with those goats! It may seem to you like they haven't learned much, but read over this thread and see how far you've come in a couple of months!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I think they are doing great! Not that I am an expert, but after following your thread I didn’t expect them to do so well!!! Good for you!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Part of it is also that it looks like they like to run downhill.


Yes! The downhills and uphills are a problem. They like to go fast down them and it is a big tangle of legs. And I try to slow them down, and they come back to my side, but then they race ahead again. 



Damfino said:


> Lewis' tendency to lean on your leg could either be his way of coming in close for treats, or it could be he wants to walk on the other side. Either way, just keep walking "through" him like you're doing and he should eventually learn to stop. It's ok to bump him extra hard with your knee or foot so he learns that it's not comfortable to lean in.


Lewis doesn't know how to walk on my other side, so I don't think it is that. Clark knows both sides. I thought maybe he did it to keep pace, or for comfort. It sure is annoying though!



Damfino said:


> Both goats look like they're doing very well with the one-on-on walking. Your turns are very nice and your goats look like they're happy and paying attention to you instead of trying to get back to their buddy in the pen.


Yes, they are doing fantastic with one on one walking. I kind of just included those videos to show them off a bit! Turns are a bit hard, especially with two goats. 



Damfino said:


> Good job working with those goats! It may seem to you like they haven't learned much, but read over this thread and see how far you've come in a couple of months!


Thank you so much for taking the time to watch those videos! It means a great great great deal to me that you are helping me so much and encouraging me. It might be silly how invested I am with goat training, but it is too late to turn back! We are far from done with leash training. I can't wait for the day our walks can be fun and relaxing, not stressful and chaotic. I'm going to be strolling all over with my two goats! Once they master walking together, we have to add people and dogs to the equation...and all the green now is added temptation for them to stop and eat, which they do sometimes but I give them a hard tug. I have to find a better way to hold the leashes too. 

Was I correcting the goats as I should have been? Did I seem consistent?


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> I think they are doing great! Not that I am an expert, but after following your thread I didn’t expect them to do so well!!! Good for you!


Thank you so so much! I invested so much time into this, and it is paying off finally. There were some days, and will be some days, I just want to quit and cry, but I tried to think about the future. There is much more training to do, and will be many more updates! Thanks for following this thread!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to watch those videos! It means a great great great deal to me that you are helping me so much and encouraging me. It might be silly how invested I am with goat training, but it is too late to turn back! We are far from done with leash training. I can't wait for the day our walks can be fun and relaxing, not stressful and chaotic. I'm going to be strolling all over with my two goats! Once they master walking together, we have to add people and dogs to the equation...and all the green now is added temptation for them to stop and eat, which they do sometimes but I give them a hard tug. I have to find a better way to hold the leashes too.
> 
> Was I correcting the goats as I should have been? Did I seem consistent?



It's never silly to invest time in our animals. They are a wonderful gift and interacting with them and learning to communicate with them is a privilege. 

It looks to me like you're being consistent and you're correcting, releasing pressure, and rewarding at a good level. The more you practice, the better you'll get. The next goats you train will be so much easier than these, and it won't be because the goats are better but because you'll have learned how to teach them. 

It looks like you're already using two differently-colored leashes, and that's a good start. Sometimes it can help to use shorter leashes so you're not having to fiddle with all the excess rope, but the downside to this is that if a goat suddenly pulls hard, you have less reaction time and the leash may get pulled out of your hand. More than anything it's just a matter of practice. I used to juggle 4-6 horses when taking them from the stable to the pasture and back. I'd have two or 3 ropes in each hand and if one horse acted up, I'd have to correct that one without spooking the others. It was tricky, but after doing it twice a day I eventually was able to manage them without getting dragged or trampled. 

Keep having fun!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

So today was hoof clipping day... my one goat put up a huge fuss and it was ugly. He was squirming and fighting, and I was like pinning him into the fence. Anywho, when I did get him still I tried to cut fast, and I cut to the pink. I did not make it bleed, but the soft part of the hoof was pink. Should I not walk him on the road for a while so that the middle of the hoof doesn’t split open?


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

I’m no expert, but I heard you are supposed to cut to the pink. You probably did fine.

I’ve enjoyed this thread! Going to start working on teaching my kids to walk soon. Even the ones we plan to sell - figure it’ll make life easier both for them and their new families! This has helped a lot.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Feira426 said:


> I’m no expert, but I heard you are supposed to cut to the pink. You probably did fine.
> 
> I’ve enjoyed this thread! Going to start working on teaching my kids to walk soon. Even the ones we plan to sell - figure it’ll make life easier both for them and their new families! This has helped a lot.


I agree, on both counts. 
I learned a lot from this thread too!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Well it rained both days after hoof clipping so I couldn't walk them anyway lol!
I'm glad this thread has been informative. I will still be using this thread a lot because I have a lot more leash training until they are "leash trained".


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

@Damfino 
Where do you like your goats to be when walking? For example, I like when I look down and see my goats' necks and tops of head, not shoulders. Should I worry about their positioning so long as they are not pulling?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

As long as they're walking nicely where YOU want them to walk, it's all good. I usually like my goats a little out front of me because my boys have large horns. They either have to walk out front or way out to the side, and I don't feel I have as much control if they walk to the side. Plus, if they shake their heads they can still whack me, so I want those horns up ahead where I can keep an eye on them and where they have a little more freedom to tilt their heads without me having to worry about getting poked.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

Damfino said:


> As long as they're walking nicely where YOU want them to walk, it's all good. I usually like my goats a little out front of me because my boys have large horns. They either have to walk out front or way out to the side, and I don't feel I have as much control if they walk to the side. Plus, if they shake their heads they can still whack me, so I want those horns up ahead where I can keep an eye on them and where they have a little more freedom to tilt their heads without me having to worry about getting poked.


I have trouble keeping my goats where I want them, in terms of in front or behind me. I like my goats' front legs to be next to mine. I feel that if they go any further, they lose sight of me and focus. It also makes turns a mess. The walk home is especially aggravating because they both are in front of me and slamming into my legs, and I correct them, and then they run right ahead of me again. I think the fact that their brother is walking with them makes each one want to go faster than the other.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I hope it is ok if I ask a question here, @Kenny Battistelli .
I have followed this thread and started my own ND buck on halter walk training. He has been doing well, but today started to pull ahead.
I can see his motivation. We finally have grass growing now, and I have been taking him to places were he gets tethered to graze, or to a mini pasture, for the last 4 days. So, today, he could hardly wait to get there! We don’t go “there” right away, but do a walk first. I want him to stay just a little behind me (works best for me because of his horns). When he pulled I made him stop, he stopped, got rewarded, then, upon “walk on” he pulled ahead again. I had the leash tight and kept him by my side, but he wasn’t doing it voluntarily for me. I waited for when he would slow down so I could quickly reward him, but it didn’t happen. He has moved his head around, trying to get his head out of the halter. He was clearly as unhappy with the walk as I was.
Am I expecting too much of him, or is this fixable, and still take him to the pasture?
Thanks


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I suggest stopping and letting him eat for a while _before_ going on a walk. Sometimes just 5 or 10 minutes is all it takes to get that initial urge to eat out of their system so they can focus on you. I'm lucky because my goats have 24/7 pasture at home so they aren't super motivated to run toward greenery. However, if we're on a pack trip and they've been in the trailer all day, I usually let them graze for a short while before I try to lead them anywhere. If they've been kept away from fresh green goodies, it seems unfair not to let them have a little snack before I start making demands. Once they've had that snack then it is fair for you to ask them to walk with you, and it will probably be a bit easier to gain their cooperation (I expect there will still be some grumbling and pulling but at least your goat won't feel quite as justified). 

For a goat that charges ahead, I tug on the halter and then take the tail end of the leash and swirl it in circles in front of their face. It makes them pause so I can get back ahead of them again. If they don't pause then they'll walk into the leash and get a slap on the nose. They learn pretty quickly to listen at the first halter tug!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Damfino said:


> I suggest stopping and letting him eat for a while _before_ going on a walk. Sometimes just 5 or 10 minutes is all it takes to get that initial urge to eat out of their system so they can focus on you. I'm lucky because my goats have 24/7 pasture at home so they aren't super motivated to run toward greenery. However, if we're on a pack trip and they've been in the trailer all day, I usually let them graze for a short while before I try to lead them anywhere. If they've been kept away from fresh green goodies, it seems unfair not to let them have a little snack before I start making demands. Once they've had that snack then it is fair for you to ask them to walk with you, and it will probably be a bit easier to gain their cooperation (I expect there will still be some grumbling and pulling but at least your goat won't feel quite as justified).
> 
> For a goat that charges ahead, I tug on the halter and then take the tail end of the leash and swirl it in circles in front of their face. It makes them pause so I can get back ahead of them again. If they don't pause then they'll walk into the leash and get a slap on the nose. They learn pretty quickly to listen at the first halter tug!


Thanks so much @Damfino! That makes total sense, and I’m excited to try this tomorrow!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> I hope it is ok if I ask a question here, @Kenny Battistelli .


You are welcome to ask as many questions as you would like here!



MadHouse said:


> I can see his motivation. We finally have grass growing now, and I have been taking him to places were he gets tethered to graze, or to a mini pasture, for the last 4 days. So, today, he could hardly wait to get there! We don’t go “there” right away, but do a walk first. I want him to stay just a little behind me (works best for me because of his horns). When he pulled I made him stop, he stopped, got rewarded, then, upon “walk on” he pulled ahead again. I had the leash tight and kept him by my side, but he wasn’t doing it voluntarily for me. I waited for when he would slow down so I could quickly reward him, but it didn’t happen. He has moved his head around, trying to get his head out of the halter. He was clearly as unhappy with the walk as I was.


Since you are walking with only one goat at a time right now, I recommend making abrupt turns when he starts to go ahead of you. Say you are walking and he accelerates, stop, and just start walking the other way. He should come back to your side, then walk for a few steps before turning around and returning to your walk. This teaches him that whenever he thinks he's allowed to go faster than you, or when he thinks he knows where you are going, you are about to turn around and he's going to get a tug.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> You are welcome to ask as many questions as you would like here!
> 
> 
> Since you are walking with only one goat at a time right now, I recommend making abrupt turns when he starts to go ahead of you. Say you are walking and he accelerates, stop, and just start walking the other way. He should come back to your side, then walk for a few steps before turning around and returning to your walk. This teaches him that whenever he thinks he's allowed to go faster than you, or when he thinks he knows where you are going, you are about to turn around and he's going to get a tug.


Thanks!
I tried your advice and also @Damfino ’s. The new challenge was, we had to switch sides, since he has another eye issue, and the halter was touching the affected side, so I had to turn it inside out. Considering all that, he wasn’t doing great, but also not worse. Now it is raining and we are taking a break.


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> I tried your advice and also @Damfino ’s. The new challenge was, we had to switch sides, since he has another eye issue, and the halter was touching the affected side, so I had to turn it inside out. Considering all that, he wasn’t doing great, but also not worse. Now it is raining and we are taking a break.


When you first switch sides, he probably won't walk as well on that side as he did on the other, but he should catch up quickly. 

A little break is always a good thing!


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

@MadHouse How is your leash training going?


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> @MadHouse How is your leash training going?


I have not picked it up again this winter. The boy spent the summer with the girls (wearing an anti mating apron), until rut hit. Then he was too obsessed watching his girls 24/7 to be interested in walks.
He had his date with a girl now, so I will try the leash again after this arctic cold spell we are having.

Did you ever do any hikes with your boys?


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## Kenny Battistelli (Nov 29, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> I have not picked it up again this winter. The boy spent the summer with the girls (wearing an anti mating apron), until rut hit. Then he was too obsessed watching his girls 24/7 to be interested in walks.
> He had his date with a girl now, so I will try the leash again after this arctic cold spell we are having.
> 
> Did you ever do any hikes with your boys?


I haven't done anything with my goats for a very long time! Until I can stand to be around them again, there is not much I can do. My leash training went to crap. Clark started acting like he never walked on a leash before. This wasn't only one day either- this was every time I walked him. I decided the best thing to do was to stop. I still walk Lewis, but he is regressing too. I don't know what the problem is. I wish I could get them to walk like they did in the last videos I posted. Once they are wethered, I might pick it up again...but until then, almost everything is at a standstill. They were never this hormoney last year.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Kenny Battistelli said:


> I don't know what the problem is.


 Yeah you do. You mentioned it in your last sentence: 

_"They were never this hormoney last year." _


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