# Whisper and Siam waiting and waiting



## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

Hello! I am new to the forum. I just had to share my anxious waiting with someone. My husband and I recently moved out to our friend's farm to lend some helping hands and get some cheap rent! 

We have four Oberhasli goats (1 male on loan and 3 females). We had them separated starting the beginning of last year and were planning to put them together (with our two older females) starting in September. 

However, Hercules (our male) had other thoughts and got through a fence into a pen with our younger doe (Whisper) who we were planning to breed next year, so she is a bit smaller than we wanted her to be before she was bred.

We kept them all together (not the best plan to determine due date) for the rest of 2013. Now we are getting close to kidding time. This is our first time with kidding and I seem to be the most anxious out of everyone on the farm.

Two of our females (Whisper and Siam) started bagging up alot and had a small amount of white discharge on February 8th and we spent most of the night in the barn thinking it was close to kidding time. Now its 4 weeks later and still no kids!

Both of their udders are now larger and tighter. Whisper's ligaments have seemed to disappear and reappear several times. I have difficulty feeling Siam's ligaments, but I think they are getting mushier. This will be Siam's 2nd kidding and Whisper's 1st.

I will post pictures and please let me know what you think about how much longer it will be until kidding. Also, we have been trying to get their weight up and feeding a higher protein goat feed and supplementing with alfalfa hay, but they still look on the skinny side to me.

The first 3 photos are Jolly. This goat we got for free because she never bred successfully. I think she now might be a month or so along.

The next 3 photos are Siam who has kidded before.

The last 4 photos are of Whisper who we didn't plan on breeding until next year.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

You have beautiful goats. I love Obershaslis and always find them so elegant. It is my first year kidding as well, so I am not much help on that front, but I did notice your girls seem a bit rough coated and reddish on their black trim. What sort of mineral are they getting? You also mentioned them being on the skinny side, despite upping their feed. Have they been checked recently for worms? 

I sympathize with the stress induced by our girls when kidding is imminent. It is crazy making! Hopefully someone else will chime in on trying to figure out when kidding will happen.

ETA: To my untrained eye, Jolly does indeed look pregnant. Good job!


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

We are giving them a mineral block from the feed store as well as a salt lick. Are there any specific minerals you would recommend?

Parasites are a problem in Florida, so we probably need to send out a fecal sample to get tested. Do you know if it is okay to worm during late stage pregnancy?

Thank you so much for responding. Hopefully someone else can give me an ETA on kidding. I was up last night checking on them at 10, 1, and 3 am. The goats just look at me like I am crazy for being out there in the middle of the night :laugh:.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I would definitely switch from a block to loose minerals. It is very difficult for them to get what they need from a block. Take away the salt lick, they will get all the salt they need from the loose mineral. If you give a salt lick they will usually just eat that and very little minerals. I give mine copper boluses when they get deficient. They can be bought without a prescription. If you are unsure, search copper bolus and BoSe on this forum to find some great info.

Try reading this ongoing thread about different minerals people are using

Being mineral deficient seems to be a contributing factor in many difficult kiddings, so it is important to address, most especially copper and selenium. There are many threads about this if you do a search.

As for worming, there are some wormers that are safe and some that are not during pregnancy. I know that Ivermectin is safe, and valbazen is not. If at all possible get a fecal done by a vet that includes testing for coccidia. That will tell you whether or not your goats have worms, and if they do which ones. Certain wormers work for certain worms and not others. It is important to keep up with worming. Goats with a heavy wormload will be unthrifty and if untreated eventually extremely unhealthy and anemic. Also be sure to use wormers correctly to avoid worm resistance.

Check out the Fiasco Farms medications page for a good source of different medications/wormers and their dosage. There is a lot of great info on the rest of the site as well.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They certainly are getting closer but pretty hard to say when. Definitely get the loose mineral and a fecal done. Good luck!


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

We will be getting the loose mineral tomorrow as well as sending out a fecal sample. Thank you so much for your recommendations. I am going out to the barn now to remove the salt lick and leave the mineral block until we can get the loose tomorrow.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

That is great! Don't worry too too much, kidding normally seems to go by the book. What has helped me is reading as many threads as possible here. It has helped prepare me for what might be to come as well as to avoid the potential pitfalls when possible. 

Good luck! Definitely let us know when you have some gorgeous Ober babies!


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

I have been reading alot of forums and books and watching youtube videos which are super helpful while waiting for them to start kidding. 

I have mostly seen it said they starting bagging up as early as a month in advance (which today has been a month). Is it possible for them to bag up earlier than a month in advance of the kidding?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Yep


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

So could we have days, weeks or months left?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Yep :laugh:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Beautiful girls there and Yep jolly is pregnant for sure. 
I have Salt blocks, mineral blocks and loose mineral out for my goats. If you can find Sweetlix mineral that would be great. They do need cooper and that is a great one. Make sure you do NOT get a mineral that is for sheep and goats it will not have the copper. They are s bit on the small size be ready to give them good feed and all the hay the want now. I would also have molasses on hand they will need the molasses water for the sugar after delivery. 
You can take fresh fecal samples to about any vet to get it tested. I would for sure see if they need to be dewormed first before you do it. Great call. Take a baggie fold it inside out get samples that are on the top of the pile ot try to get it before it hits the ground. 
Hood luck. Babies address going to be beautiful

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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

So, half way through the day we realized no one was at home with the goats. We were sure they would have them while everyone was gone, but Siam waited until we got home. I went out at 3:00pm to have a look at her and her udder was very tight. We came back in to eat some late lunch and an hour later went back out to see yellow mucus hanging down and then by 4:15 she was pushing. We started to realize something was wrong, there was only one foot coming out. We had to go in and get the other foot and the head was not positioned correctly either, but we got the kid out and now we have a healthy doe named Justine!

We named her after our friend's son, Justin, whose birthday just happens to be today. Happy Birthday Justin and Justine!

Still no developments on Whisper.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Congrats! Now definitely not trying to scare you, but the hormones from kidding can allow internal parasites to flare up so definitely get those fecals done ASAP to see if they need to be treated for worms. Great job with assisting - kids in the wrong position can be a big problem! Good thing you were there!


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

We got the minerals for them this morning and sent out the fecal samples. So we should get the results in 1-2 days.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Congrats! She is a doll.

Many people as a general rule always worm does within 24 hours of kidding, fecal or no. If it were me I would go ahead and worm her now.


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

Which worm medication do you use?


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I would use either Valbazen or Ivermectin. Different ones work better in different areas. Might be something to ask the vet about, but those two are good ones.

One other thing, if you had to go inside her to get the kid, she should probably get some antibiotics, like penicillin, to prevent infection.


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## Bertnut2 (Feb 9, 2014)

Beautiful baby and you have found a great place for people who love goats as you go and will give astounding advice. I'm new here also and I've learned so much. Congratulations on your new one! 


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

If you give antibiotics, she should get a full course of 5 days, correct?


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Yes, always.


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

We got all the goats dewormed today and penicillin for Siam. We got Justine's pen set up and our milking stanchion built. Siam was so good standing still the whole time until I got up and she knocked the bucket over (I have now learned my first milking lesson, never take your eyes off the bucket. Whisper had some white mucus this morning, but otherwise doesn't look any closer to kidding. We are worried about her because Siam's kid was so big, we are hoping for smaller kids for Whisper. Jolly's udder is slightly bigger today. I will get some pictures posted later.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Awesome job! Good luck with the rest of your kiddings.


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## shaejade (Mar 24, 2013)

Good Luck Sarah, hope Whisper has babies soon!!!!


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

Okay, I promised some more pictures. I did some comparison shots of Whisper and Jolly. Whisper has definitely dropped and she has been like this for a couple of days now. How long is it normally from the dropping to kidding? Jolly's udder grows a little every day, but her ligaments are still hard as pencils, I'm still thinking she is a good 2-3 months out. Siam is doing wonderful milking and Justine is getting bigger every day. Whisper is the first set of pictures and Jolly is the second set.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

FarmerInaDress said:


> I would use either Valbazen or Ivermectin. Different ones work better in different areas. Might be something to ask the vet about, but those two are good ones.
> 
> One other thing, if you had to go inside her to get the kid, she should probably get some antibiotics, like penicillin, to prevent infection.


NEVER use Valbazen on pregnant does- it causes abortions. It also causes temporary sterility in the Bucks-can't remember how long that lasts. I think it is a month or more.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> NEVER use Valbazen on pregnant does- it causes abortions. It also causes temporary sterility in the Bucks-can't remember how long that lasts. I think it is a month or more.


Yes, but she was asking specifically about worming a doe that had just kidded.

Posted upthread 



FarmerInaDress said:


> As for worming, there are some wormers that are safe and some that are not during pregnancy. I know that Ivermectin is safe, and valbazen is not.


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

Still no kids from Whisper. She looks really hollow near her tail head and in front of her hips. I can feel the kid sitting on the bottom of her tummy immediately in front of her udder. I wish she would kid already. I have a feeling she might wait till the full moon on Sunday before she goes.


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## angleridgefarm (Feb 9, 2014)

Sarah im with you i have fist timer due today and the full moon is set for today or tomorrow and she has given all the signs i just hopes she gets it done before i have to go back to work momday.,,

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## shaejade (Mar 24, 2013)

Hope she has babies soon!! Can't wait to see what she has


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## sarah_stone (Mar 9, 2014)

whisper had a baby boy tonight, however she has not fully passed her placenta yet, it is still hanging from her, should I be worried it has been a couple hours since she gave birth


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## shaejade (Mar 24, 2013)

Congrats!! Can't wait to see pictures of the little guy I don't know that I can be of much help with the placenta thing but I read that if it has been 24 hours, then call the vet ,but not to worry about 2 hours......not sure, that is just what I read. Also that the more baby nurses the more contractions she will have to expel it.


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