# Here we go..... diarrhea --Update with ? post 24



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

So yesterday I noticed a little bit of clumpy green poo, but didn't notice who it was coming from. Sometimes after roaming in the wooded area we'll get one with a little poo like this, and they act just fine, so we don't get worried. 
Everyone has been wormed, and UPD on shots, except our buckling who needs his.

So I go out this morning, and one of our does has diarrhea  She's got it on the backs of her legs, and there was a mess around the front of the mini barn where they sleep. I watched her, and when she poo'd again, it was watery green.

Could the heat have something to do with it? It's been in the mid 80s, and the humidity... It's been staying around 80% or higher. Unfortunately I don't have a thermometer for the goats yet, BUT I am going to try and find my daughters old one. 

Any suggestions on what I could do? I know to get fluids into her. I'm going to go get some gatorade, any suggestions on a flavor or does that matter much? And should I try pepto as well? If so, how much? She's a big girl, probably 130-140lbs at a rough estimate. 

I'll have to hose the poo off of her back legs later, any suggestions on what kind of generic soap is good for their skin? I need to wash my preggo girls too they are icky, plus another goat got the diarrhea on them --yuck.

Would it be a good idea to keep her in a stall, or let her stay out? I can try to run a fan out there if my extention cord will reach...can't wait to get electric out there!

I hope it's just the heat and nothing else going on. With trying to get Molly and Boe over their hoof rot & hoof scald, this is the last thing I want to deal with.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

I would give her 10cc of pepto and see if that helps anything. She may need another dose in 6 hours or so.

Any kind of gaterade or electrolytes is good.

use dog shampoo for cleaning


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*



StaceyRoop said:


> I would give her 10cc of pepto and see if that helps anything. She may need another dose in 6 hours or so.
> 
> Any kind of gaterade or electrolytes is good.
> 
> use dog shampoo for cleaning


Thanks so much! All I have is the kids pepto tablets, so I am getting ready to go to the store now and get some pepto. I am going to search for the thermometer too. She seemed a bit depressed yesterday staying off by herself, which isn't uncommon for her, but I had a feeling something was up with her. Poor girl.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Okay so I gave her 6cc's of pepto, and we cleaned her rear end with some dog shampoo.
Waited almost an hour, and my husband said to give her a little baking soda w/water in the syringe.
She wanted to stand out in the hot sun - she did this yesterday afternoon I noticed that's what tipped me off that she might be sick.
So I brought her into a stall, gave her hay, and put some gatorade in her water. She is eating a little hay, and my husband said when
I was gone she drank water. I did the skin test to see if she was dehydrated and her skin bounced back normally.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Whenever I see scours in goats, I generally think of four things right off the bat: Dietary, bacteria, coccidia, or less frequently, parasites.

If the scour is mostly green and the goat's more or less OK -- still eating and drinking and being a goat -- I assume it's dietary unless the situation takes an ugly turn. In humans, it's basically analog to gorging on Taco Bell or something...you get the squirts, but life goes on and it eventually clears up.

If it's a kid in the 3 to maybe 6 month range, I suspect coccidia first, then bacteria.

If the goat (regardless of age) is depressed and anorexic, and if the poo is particularly nasty (i.e., dirty water), I think bacterial -- especially if the goat is older or younger than a coccidia candidate. Bacterial enteritis is deadly serious; the human analog would be *true* food poisoning...like, the occasional e.coli and salmonella outbreaks that kill and/or put people in the hospital and make the evening news.

If it's an off and on softening and the goat still eats and drinks, but seems maybe a little down or sluggish overall, I start thinking internal parasites, and usually something other than barberpole worms. I've personally had goats do this while their eyelids stay nice and pink, only to have the occasional softening clear up right away and the goat brighten considerably after deworming.

Given that it's green, I'm gonna go with a dietary scour for now. Pepto is a great idea.. I usually give adults as much of a 30ml dose as they'll take...which, with me, is usually close to 30ml just because I'm mean like that. lol A 30ml dose probably sounds like a lot, but it's the same amount as the little dosing cup on the lid. 

Probios wouldn't hurt either.. Adults here usually get a 10g slug of it.

Something else to note is that the skin tent test doesn't really work for goats... Test an upper eyelid. The eyelids go down first, so if an upper eyelid tents, the goat's dehydrated.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Could be diet ....I would give it a couple of days and treat with pepto...if no improvement.... I recommend getting a fecal done...

Also .........I highly recommend ...getting a thermometer.... with the weather being so weird... this year up and down....now it is record heat.... she may have pneumonia setting in....please take her temp.... if it is pneumonia....she needs treatment right away..... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks so much I appreciate the help. She's been a bit down the past couple of days, but she's always been such a quiet girl, and likes to stay off to herself. But yesterday she was standing out in the hot sun while everyone else was hovering in the shade to stay cool. That had me concerned. 
Her poo is very runny, and green.

I hope it's just dietary, and she'll get over it quickly. Everyone else is doing fine, thank goodness, and I hope this is an isolated issue. 
She's about 2 1/2 years old.

We've had a lot of rain this week, but they have access to shelter so I wonder if she might have gotten wet somehow and I didn't know it? I usually always go out right after rain ends to check on them, even late at night. I've never noticed her get wet. But with this heat and humidity...It's not horrendous, but it's definitely been very hot this week.

I'll look for the thermometer, and if I don't find it, I'll just use my daughters. 
We'll keep her in the stall until after the evening feeding is over, and then if she seems better I'll let her out, it'll be a little cooler then, and probably do her some good to be out instead of trapped up in a stall. She has her water, and she has access to hay.

I gave her 6cc of Pepto, but this evening I'll give her the 10cc dose. I couldn't remember the dosage when I was out - so didn't want to give her too much.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

HS....At 2 + years old, she would likely benefit from the higher dose of 30cc, and it would act faster on her gut with that amount. I hope she feels better soon.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

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liz said:


> HS....At 2 + years old, she would likely benefit from the higher dose of 30cc, and it would act faster on her gut with that amount. I hope she feels better soon.


Thanks, I am going to give that to her as soon as I get dinner started - veggie/beef soup on a HOT day..LOL

I just came in from checking on her. She is FINALLY laying down in the corner of the stall. I only see one other tiny little pile of poo and it's runny, but doesn't look like the watery stuff I saw this morning.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

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Is she eating anything?? Does she seem 'dull' or 'off,' or is she more or less normal?

If she's not eating and she's dull/off at all, or if she doesn't seem considerably better now than earlier today, I'd start seriously considering hitting her with about 5ml of Scour Halt (called ScourChek now, I think -- spectinomycin) or Neomycin oral solution.. Usually, dietary scours clear up pretty quickly...often, you don't catch them *actually* scouring, but with dried poo on their hinies as they're out grazing normally..

It's 5:36EST now...which means your closest TSC will be **CLOSED** in a little over 2hrs. ScourChek is less than $20 for a pint, and will last you forever. If I were you, I'd go buy some.. If I didn't have to use it for this one, super...you can always just hang on to it.

But I wouldn't be without it come 8:01pm tonight, because you just..never..know..

Just sayin'.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks cmjust0 for the info. I just now got on and read your reply. She didn't seem to be eating anything in the stall, not sure about drinking.
I fed the others, and felt like a terrible person for not feeding her, she had that 'what about me?' look on her face, it was soooo heartbreaking.
I gave her 10cc's of pepto, and once the others that I feed outside were done <we feed them all seperately so we can monitor what they are eating>, then I turned her out, and she had a lot of diarrhea when I let her out <was hardly any in the stall at all>, she also pee'd. 
She was acting just fine, with the exception of having diarrhea running out of her rear end. She acted as if she were starving! Poor girl! She grazed and browsed for about an hour and then everyone came back up to the barn <getting dark outside>.

I want to put her in the stall tonight, but we are expecting storms, and so I'll have to leave that stall open so everyone has shelter. 
I can't wait to get a few temporary shelters made until we make a few small run in's. I have the stuff for the temp shelter, just need a tarp to go over it. I can't wait until we get everything set up the way we want.

BTW, I forgot to ask, how often should I be giving the Pepto? Every 6 hours? Or since I just gave it about an hour and a half ago, should i wait and see how she is in the morning?

Thanks again everyone for all the help!


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

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Hoosier, when our doeling had diarrhea somebody suggested dry oatmeal and mixing a little baking soda with water. I think I did like a tablespoon with about 20 cc of water. Those two stopped the diarrhea right away while pepto didn't help (of course, hers wasn't diet related obviously). But I think with the stomach upset those two things would help her.
Pepto at 15cc would be for a small 3 month old so 10cc might not be helping your girl at all. Hope she feels better!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

How is she today?

Yes..P7 is right, if you can't get the runs to stop and fear dehydration, if she is eating giving her some dry oatmeal will help bind her poop. Also, giving her some probiotic paste will help too.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks P7 and Liz! When I went out to check on her this morning I only saw one pile of poo, it was still runny, but it did have some clumpy stuff in it, so it looks like it may be hardening up. She has been out grazing with the others for over an hour now. 
I did give her 12cc's of pepto this morning, and I was going to wait a few hours and give her some baking soda - I did give her baking soda w/water in a syringe yesterday afternoon.

Hopefully she'll stay in the shade when it starts to get hot, so I don't have to lock her in the stall again.

Oh, and if I don't see more improvement, I'll definitely give her oatmeal.

Thanks again, I appreciate all the help!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

If she's still down with this, I don't think it's dietary.. At this point, I'm thinking she's either got/had a bacterial gut thing going, or perhaps some type of non-barberpole parasite.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

I went out and checked on her a while ago, she was laying down next to our garden where she likes to be but it's in the sun. So I put her up in the stall until it cools off - not really that hot today thank goodness, but I'd rather her not be out in the sun. I don't see any signs of new diarrhea, her rear end has a tiny bit that is dry and looks to have been dry for quite a while. So I wonder if she is getting over it. She was acting normal earlier today, grazing, drinking water, etc. I also figure if I have her in the stall, I can monitor her poo. 
I gave her almost 1 tablespoon of baking soda w/water.

When I go out to feed the others this afternoon, I'll take her out some oatmeal and see if she'll eat it. I'll have to find something to add to it as I don't have any molasses or raisins right now -- on my grocery list tho'!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

When she goes in the stall, is she eating hay?

I dunno...given that she still maybe seems "off" a bit I'd probably be treating for gut bacteria and probably parasites other than barberpoles.. For me, that would mean drenching with SafeGuard @ 3x label strength for 3 days in a row, plus about 5ml of Scour Halt (ScourChek...spectinomycin) or Neomycin oral every 12hrs until she STOPPED scouring..

If I saw *any* blood in the stool at all, I'd accompany all that with a decent broad spectrum injectable...tetracycline, maybe. If she didn't get better quickly, I'd switch to something stronger like Excenel..

To have gone on so long now, I'm now seriously doubting this was 100% dietary in nature.. She may kick whatever it was on her own and continue improving, but a simple dietary scour is typically no biggie at all to you or the goat, and it's typically very short-lived.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Glad your girl is starting to do better. It's sad that we had so much poo here last week I can name the stages: watery poo, mustard poo, pudding poo, soft dog poo, normal dog poo, clumpy hard dog poo, pellets! Sounds like you have reached (drum roll) pudding dog poo! :laugh: 
Hope you get cofee beans soon!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks! And yeah P7, it sounds like she had the pudding dog poo! Thankfully, no more signs of diarrhea all day long - and none on her rear end, just a little bit of what was dried from overnight last night. She's back to normal, eating hay, and she was BEGGING for grain, poor girl! Everyone else getting grain and she is stuck in the stall watching through the divider wall. While I was tending to the others, she was chowing down on the hay like crazy. She's back to her goofy self, and I feel so relieved, but I'll keep an eye on her just to make sure all is well.


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Just watch the grain ...hay is the best for recovering soft stools at least for a few days


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks Mully! Well I think she is fine now. WHEW, I was so worried! I saw one green ball of poo about the size of a marble mixed with regular poo, and no diarrhea on the ground - no signs of it on her rear end either. She slept outside last night with her little sister, and the area they were in the poo was all normal. 
When I came out two mornings ago and saw all that diarrhea, I admit I was terrified of what we might be dealing with.

I wonder how long I should with hold the grain? She has plenty of hay to eat <we have two round rolls of hay in the pen for them>. 
There are just so many possibilities as to why she was sick. But no one else has been sick. I'll keep an eye on her, but I think she's going to be fine now. At least i hope so, I don't need any more drama LOL


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

I don't know what the others will say, but with ours I started grain back up at 1/2 the normal amount for the morning feeding only. I waited until a day after normal pellets. That way, if their poo didn't stay normal all day and night after half her normal morning amount I could take it away again the next day. I could also make sure the grain wasn't causing it or making it worse.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

Thanks P7, I was thinking if she is fine this evening I might give her a handful. Her poo is hard,this morning it was a very dark green, but it's hard, and she is acting fine. She's been acting just fine, browsing, eating hay, grazing, and running from the bugs that bite her butt LOL It's very pretty out today, It's about 83 degrees, and the humidity is finally LOW, so it's comfortable out. She's in her favorite spot next to the garden grazing right now.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Here we go..... diarrhea*

As if I needed ANY MORE DRAMA...hah...

Okay, so the same doe started walking a little off on her front left the night before last. We checked her foot, and there is absolutely nothing that we can tell that is wrong - nothing stuck in it, no scald, rot, etc. I pushed on her foot and nothing bothered her.
And then we noticed her ear. We got her about 3 weeks ago, and they had to put on a new Scrapie tag because she pulled the identification # part off of the one she had on. 
Well the area around the scrapie tag was infected! There was no knot, and you couldn't even tell unless you were looking for it. But while I was holding her for my husband to take another look at her foot, I found her ear.
It looks like it never healed right.

Could the infection in her ear be making her walk lame since it's her left ear/front left foot?
My husband put some thrush buster on it, and today I am going to use triple antibiotic ointment on it. It looked much better yesterday, but I feel so bad that we didn't know this was going on. I wonder if this caused her diarrhea too?
She was acting just fine, but all day yesterday she stayed by the barn, didn't want to go browse or graze. She did eat hay, and drink water, perked right up when it was time for grain, which I've been giving her a little, and will increase since she isn't grazing. Oh, and raisins...she was all over me last night, and she's not really a 'people goat.'

I know I should get her on penicillin, what kind of dosage should I get for her if she doesn't show improvement by this afternoon? I'm guessing she weighs around 160-170 lbs, she's a hefty girl. What size needle/syringe would be best to use? My husband brought a bunch of 12cc syringes home, but I don't think he brought home any needles.

Any people meds I can give her for the pain? Tylenol, aspirin? etc. I do have some tylenol.

She is resting next to the barn right now, which she was hovering behind the barn, and she slept with everyone like she typically does.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

PenG is dosed at 1cc per 20lbs and given for 5 days, a 18 gauge needle works well due to the thickness of the Pen, I wouldn't give an antibiotic unless she has a temp higher than 103.5, try using the topical antibiotic on her ear first, you can give aspirin for pain...plain aspirin, not anything with "extras" in it like caffeine, a 20 lb goat can safely have up to 1000mg of regular strength aspirin.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm with Liz on this (except I dose PenG @ 1ml/15lbs, 2x/day for 7-10 days through an 18ga needle  ).. If it's a local infection around the tag and it's not swollen or particularly nasty, I'd probably clean it as well as possible (if it were me, I'd jerk that tag out and treat...I *hate* ear tags anyway, though) and treat it topically. Here, that would probably mean scrubbing it really well and saturating the area with 7% iodine. 

I like surface wounds to DRY - especially this time of year. Neosporin, furazone, scarlet oil, and even 1% "gentle" iodine and other oily/balmy/gentle stuff like that tends to keep wounds wet. Bacteria likes wet tissue. Flies like wet tissue. 

A good tincture Iodine will kill *everything* and set that wound on FIRE, making a nice crusty scab over it in short order.  Flies and bacteria can't do much with a big crusty scab.

If you go that route, though, please remember that Iodine will MELT a goat's eyeball...so be careful. 

As for the foot, trim it, inspect it, and hit it with a little Thrush-XX or Kopertox, making sure to get it good between the claws. If she's still lame in it later, or it appears to be getting worse, check it for heat.. If it's hot, she may have an abscess way up in the hoof somewhere. In that case, I'd start her on tetracycline (Bio-Mycin 200) @ 3ml/100lbs, 1x/day for 3-5 days. I'd say probably 5 days, if it's a deep abscess.

Also, if there's heat and possibly swelling...a shot of banamine (IM @ 1ml/100lbs) may be beneficial. It'll help with pain, fever, and inflammation.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Liz and cmjust0! Well, her ear looks great now, WHEW. BUT, I did find the source of her hoof problem. I finally found a tiny spot where she has an abscess. I opened it and it drained, I cleaned it out with alcohol <the only thing I had on me at the time>, I put some thrush buster in it and packed it with animalintex and duct tape. 
Man...what is up with the hoof issues here! I get one over it, and someone else gets something....


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Hoof problems aren't always just a one-off thing that happens to an animal sometimes. True foot rot _is_ contagious. If you have one animal with it, that animal will deposit some of the culprit bacteria in the soil where your other goats are walking, and you're going to have other animals that get it.. Or you may have the same animal get it in another foot..

Hoof rot is so specific a condition, and serious enough of a problem, that they actually make vaccines for it.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

cmjust0 - I was trying to find info on a vaccine last night out of curiosity, but I couldn't find any info. The only article I found said one wasn't approved for goats yet?

Everyone looks good this morning, thank goodness. The doe that had some hoof scald on her back foot was fine this morning, but I put some thrush xx on just in case. 
The doe with the abscess is walking better, and was acting better this morning, in fact she started acting better right after I got her foot taken care of last night.

Eventually I want to get some kind of gravel to put all around the barn area as soon as my husband is done fixing the ground <making it so rain water on the barn doesn't pool up around the barn esp. during heavy rain/storms>. 
The weather seems to be ideal for this stuff - it's been very hot, humid, and we get enough rain that it saturates the ground. When it's dry - everything seems to be fine. 
Today the high is supposed to be in the mid 90s, with high humidity, and a little chance for rain/storms. Well, we had a little chance for storms yesterday and ended up with a very strong/severe storm that dumped almost an inch of rain. I hope we can avoid that today!

I pick feet every day on two does - one doesn't have to have it done, but I do it anyway, the other is the rescue doe. I'll just pick feet on everyone, though it's not always possible to detect problems, but sure has to help, gets them used to having it done as well.

Is there anything I could possibly paint on their feet to help keep them in shape as far as helping to prevent any issues? I know on horses, when we had someone who kept having issues we'd use some kind of hoof paint on them that seals the foot up nice and tight.

The area they like to lay in the shade in, for now I put a thin layer of bedding down. When my husband wakes up <he works nights>, I'll have him help me figure out what to do about that area until we get some gravel in there. We have pallets, which I've already laid down a couple.

At least everyone is healthy, and I do think we'll nip this in the bud as long as we stay on top of it.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

I should have been more clear...they make vaccines for hoof rot for cattle, and also sheep if I'm not mistaken, because it's a big problem caused by a specific pathogen. I don't think there's a goat vaccine, but the point I was making was that A) it really is a big problem, and B) it's a pathogen that's specific enough to vaccinate against. The larger point is that it's a disease, and not strictly an environmental problem. Certain environmental conditions may be conducive to the spread of the disease -- but it's still a disease.

Based on what I've seen in other folks' herds, getting in the 'disease' mindset is one of the hardest parts about foot problems.. Reason being, we don't instinctively think of it like we would CL or Johne's or some other type of disease we immediately understand to be communicable. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be the case.

Failure to get in that mindset often means infected animals aren't isolated, nor is the purulent tissue or exudate from abscesses incinerated or disposed of in some way as to protect the other animals from it, and it's not uncommon for owners to to allow the infections to go and continue being spread around longer than necessary without including antibiotic therapy in the treatment plan -- despite the fact that footrot is a true bacterial infection, not unlike pneumonia, metritis, UTIs, URIs, contaminated wounds, etc...

So that's basically what I was getting at, in a (rather large, wordy) nutshell.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for the explination cmjust0. I know we'll get past this, it'll just take a big effort, and I am confident, even if it's very frustrating. They aren't 'awful' but the one doe with the abscess is sore. I am cleaning everyones feet every day for now and looking for any issues I can find, which I know isn't always easy, but at least I am trying  I'll treat them day and night if I have to so we can overcome this! Thankfully we don't have any serious cases. The doe with the abscess is sore, but I expect her to be walking fine in another day - she's definitely showing that she feels much better with getting out and grazing, roaming, etc.
The preggo doe was a little sore today, but her foot still looks on the mend and the tissue is almost healed back where it should be.
The rescue doe is walking fine, but it'll take a long time for her feet to heal and I wonder if they will ever heal to be normal again... 

Nobody has hoof scald today, but I won't get excited until I see how everyone is in the morning! 

One really good thing about picking feet daily is, most of them will stand for me once they understand what i am doing - so it gets them into routine. My preggo doe, when I work on her feet, and when I put meds/hoof pack she just lays down and lets me do whatever...LOL
There is only one who 'HAS' to be held right now, and thats our lil lady....TROUBLE...haha....she's such a brat


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## newtopygmies (May 26, 2010)

Hoosier, I am glad your girl is getting better. One of my girls (Star) had the runs for about three days. It took us a couple of days to find out who had the problem, and by that time she was begining to look rather poorly.

I remembered the time I was raising rabbitts and had the same problem. I used a little equate anti-diarrhreal liquid, and mixed about an equal amount of Pepto. I just looked at a dose for my size and guessed about how much smaller my goat was than me and drenched her with a small amount. She hated it! last night she looked pretty bad, this morning... groggy, this afternoon she was back to her old, complaining self...and goat berries!!

I guess I got lucky...shoot...I can't afford to call a vet everytime there is a problem, I have to learn things on my own. I lurk in this forum a lot...I don't know enough to respond to a lot of things, so I just listen.


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