# I need perspective - long



## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

I have a situation I would like an opinion on. 
A couple of weeks ago I gave three of my alpacas away to a woman who runs a 4H. Originally I told the woman they would come without registration papers, but if she wanted them registered it would cost $500 per animal. She told me she didnt have the money but wanted her kids to be able to show them because they enjoyed the showmanship and agility classes. So I agreed to give her the papers. I was sure I told her I didn't want her breeding them. To ensure they wouldn't get bred I went to the registry and set their status to non- breeders. Today when I gave her the transfer papers I told what their status was and explained if she wanted to breed in the future It would cost $500 and I would change the status. Well she was upset and told me she didn't expect any restriction on the papers and that I never told her about not wanting them bred. I told her I would take the animals back. 
Long story short we are picking the girls up tomorrow.
So of course now I am feeling guilty. I am going to have to take these animals back from 3 little girls and I know it is going to be messy. I am trying to remember our conversation and I am not sure I was clear about the no breeding discussion. 
The thing is I don't think $500 is a lot for a breedable alpaca ( I spent WAYmore than that when we acquired them) and I don't think she should be breeding them if she can't afford the $500. One vet visit has cost me more than that. I honestly thought I was giving them to a 4H home who were going just let the kids enjoy showing them and I was feeling pretty good about it, now I am afraid there is something more going on and I don't want my animals in sketchy home.

Any thoughts? I can take it


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry about your situation... 
But it just doesn't make sense why someone would get upset about the paper status if it doesn't affect the kids showing them in 4h (if that WAS her real reasoning for getting them)... I don't know much about alpaca's, but if you only need the papers for breeding purposes (which to me = 'selling offspring for money') then this lady shouldn't need the papers, right? It's just not logical to me that she would need papers UNLESS she has to have them to show (Or she's trying to make money & breed them)???


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

That's a good point Traci. :thumb:

Mrndly...I don't think you're being unreasonable, i'd take them back and be done with it. But next time, make sure to have a good contract written up so there are no issues or misunderstandings. Is there a particular reason why you're giving them away? I know i've seen registered alpacas sell for quite a bit. :shrug:


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Take them back and don't think twice.

The mom will probably paint you as the bad person and there's nothing you can do about it. The less you say when you get them is probably best. I hope they are ok when you pick them up.

Mom needs to learn. You were being very kind in giving those animals away as it was.


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Ditto to what LilBleats said! :thumb:


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks guys

Yes I knew I should have put it in writing and I won't do that again.

To be honest the alpaca market isn't that great and I stopped breeding them because it didn't think I would be responsible to bring more into the mix right now. As much as I loved having them and breeding them. I have a small piece of property and had six alpacas it was hard on the pasture so I thought it would be better to reduce the herd. I found this woman through a farm I used to board my boys with and thought it was a perfect fit. I always like to help the 4H


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Stick to your guns. Take the animals back and don't feel bad. To expect free registered animals is rediculousness!


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

I agree with everyone who has replied. You were doing an extremely generous thing and the woman just kept wanting more and more and completely taking for granted that she was getting the three Alpacas for free in the first place. She should have been grateful for that alone. Stick to your decision to take back the Alpacas and don't second guess yourself. She is taking advantage of you and this whole situation. Don't worry about the little girls. You are teaching them a better lesson than their mother is. :hug:


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

You GAVE the woman 2 $500 animals--with papers! and she's complaining. Sad. :sigh: You are doing the right thing. :thumb: She decided to return the animals as she did not like the arrangement. She is doing this to her children, not you. I think you should do what you are doing, but next time make sure it is all in writing. :thumb:


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Please update us today ~ after you pick-up the Alpacas. I'm praying it all goes smoothly for you and the Alpacas. ray:


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## maple hill farm tina (Mar 14, 2010)

It sounds to me like she's disappointed because she thought she was going to be able to profit from your generosity. I agree with what everyone else here has said - take your animals back home, next time make sure everything's clearly detailed in writing, and don't feel guilty about what's occurred.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

maple hill farm tina said:


> It sounds to me like she's disappointed because she thought she was going to be able to profit from your generosity. I agree with what everyone else here has said - take your animals back home, next time make sure everything's clearly detailed in writing, and don't feel guilty about what's occurred.


I agree. :thumb:


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement and validation. I do blame myself for not putting it all in writing, plus I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to confrontation. 

We just got hay this past weekend so I need to empty the trailer today. we will probably pick the girls up tomorrow if not today. I will keep you updated


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope the woman doesn't give you any problems with taking them back. This sounds like someone trying to take advantage of you and it is good that you are sticking up for yourself. I wouldn't trust someone wanting them for free to properly take care of them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great advice from everyone. :grouphug:


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

So we are all home. phew 
The woman showed her true colors when she asked me for board :chin: 
I didn't pay it but did give her $15.00 for the shots she gave them. And she "forgot" to bring the registration transfer paperwork, She told me she would mail it I dont expect to get it back! I will call the Alpaca Registry and see what I can do void the transfer.
I found out she got 5 animals from the farm I mentioned where I used to board, all 5 of them are bred. I am so glad I got my girls back I wont do that again learned my lesson. This woman told me she didn't have the $500 for breed-able animals I have no idea how she will afford any vet bills I have easily spent over $2,000 for one cria that had issues. 
I am just glad this is all over


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm so glad you are all home, safe and sound, I've been thinking about you guys all morning.


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

*update*

so I got a package in the mail today that I had to sign for. This contained a bill for $291 !!!!
It says "this invoice is due to a broken verbal contract" 
Is this woman insane??

I am going to ignore it but if anyone knows of a reason I should be concerned legally I would appreciate you input


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

What the heck? Yes she is! This isn't your fault, but next time, you may want to have them sign a contract to protect you from legal action.


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks Woodhaven 
I actually wrote a contract up right after this happened. I took most of the verbiage from an agreement a friend had to sign for rescue she recently acquired. I intend to have whoever buys or gets an animal from me sign it from now on. At least I learned something from this. 
It is sad this person feels the need to take things this far. I have to think she feels slighted somehow. I just hope it doesn't get any nastier than this. she did send all my paperwork back


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh brother.  Sounds like she's either trying to scare you into thinking she'll take you to court if you don't pay it...or she's actually planning on taking you to court if you don't pay it. What scum. I wouldn't pay her one cent and I wouldn't be concerned either if she threatens to take you to court...I don't think she'd be able to get anything out of it. :hug:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did she state what the verbal contract was? She should have included that if she is going to sue you over that money.

I would start writing down stuff you can remember. If you stated that these alpacas were given to her as non-breeders, then you need to write that down and anything else you can remember in your "verbal" contract.


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

KW - I guess she thinks she can take this to court i don't plan on paying her 1 penny. 
ksavagno - no it just states verbal contract. yes sadly I am going to have to write this all down, i just wanted to put this behind as a lesson learned I hate that I even have to spend this much energy into it


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

At least your alpaca girls are safe.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you get your registration papers back? If not, you can just pay for new ones and say you lost them.

You know, the sad part about all of this is that you will think twice before being nice and trying to help someone out.


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## onehorse_2000 (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorry, 4H use to be such a good organization, but I keep hearing more and more stories like this. Don't pay it, keep documentation on everything, verbal contracts are very hard to debate, but it is in her court, but it is also her dime, if she decides to pursue this bill. These animals have a value, whether the market is down or not, so to expect them to come with full papers and no money exchange is nuts. I don't know if you have an attorney friend, you might want to run this past them to see what else you can do to protect yourself.


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

I dont really blame 4H it is this one person.
One thing I have is a Facebook conversation I had with the person who first got us together. She was passing messages back and forth between us. Not much but in this I very clearly stated free without papers and that it was because of breeding them I wanted to hold back the papers. I also stated if they wanted to breed that I wanted $500 each. So I have something if I have to go to court. Again not much because it wasn't directly to the person I was dealing with, but in the case of a "verbal" agreement I think it should hold some weight.

and yes I did get my papers back so i plan on sitting tight and see if she plans on taking it any further.

By the way lesson learned be careful what you say in Facebook because nothing get deleted. It happened to work in my favor but it also makes you think.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

What everyone else said!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I think this is a new type of "scam", I've heard it before. Make a file and put all correspondence in it. Be sure to get a written statement from the other breeder. That she told the "perpetrator" of the "pet" status of these animals. That way if you go to court (it cost $125. here to file a small claim), you have that information. I doubt if she will sue you. She's a "user" they are usually lazy too.

I don't ever "give" away animals, for ANY reason. I've told folks that try to "talk me down" that the purchase price is a minor factor in what it costs to keep animals. If they can't afford the purchase price, they can't afford the animal. Period.


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