# Polled dairy goats?



## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Hi everyone, I'm new on here and fairly new to goats too, but a year of having Nigies and six months of milking one has gotten me totally hooked!  
Here's my question. Especially for any of you that have polled milkers - do the polled lines generally tend to higher milk production? Pat Coleby says they do, and I greatly respect what Pat Coleby says, but I haven't been able to find really scientific information on the subject.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Welcome to TGS!

Don't know wether or not polled does give more...I'm milking just one PB Nigi and have the last 3 years, Binkey is polled and gives on average just under 2 quarts a day at peak.


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## tracyqh (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm new too and heard that polled goats tend to be less fertile or sterile. I can't believe this to be too true because would the "polledness" be bred out of them eventually if those who where polled were sterile?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I have heard by at least ten people who breed polled goats and have crossed polledxpolled and say infertility or less milk production is 100% false. I've had a few polled goats and have never had any issue. I have a hard time believing that there is infertility caused by polled genetics.


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## logansmommy7 (Nov 11, 2009)

REsponding because I am VERY interested in the response to this topic. I honestly can't believe how it could be either, but one of my bucks is polled and would like to know more. I have not bred polled to polled yet (don't know if I will-do not have the option now as my does are horned). Thanks for posting-great topic!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I have a polled buck and a polled doe.....Both have a horned parent and a polled parent, Guess I'll find out what comes of this breeding.


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

I have read in a few places that polled does tend to be more fertile (although NOT significantly so) and that polled bucks tend to be less fertile (but NOT significantly so). I have no idea if that is true in reality, but I have come across that info a few different places (although they could have all had the same original source, LOL!).


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## logansmommy7 (Nov 11, 2009)

Hey kids-n-peeps
Haven't seen your new profile pic-is that Rupert or Cricket? sorry I don't know the diff-


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## kids-n-peeps (Aug 24, 2009)

logansmommy - it's Cricket 

Here's a link to an article (from 1981!) about polledness and its effect on conception rate & litter size. Mind you, I have no idea if this is generally accepted or not - just came across it and passing on the link. I'm sure there is something more current out there :chin:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... -2-111.pdf


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks liz! I've been considering adding a polled doe to our herd. I'd like to know if she'll give more milk too. 

While I haven't found much on whether polled goats produce more milk, I've found a few places that discuss fertility.
Apparently the risk is negligible or nonexistent unless you breed polled to polled. In that case, there's a chance that a kid will be born that has two of the dominant polled gene. That kid could possibly have spermiostasis or cystic ovaries.
The infertility does not always start before the goat is able to breed, passing the condition on.

Here's Chapter 11 from Pat Coleby's book Natural Goat Care. See "Spermiostasis and Cystic Ovaries" under Hereditary Defects.

http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/press/goat11.htm

Here's AGS's page on the polled gene:
http://www.americangoatsociety.com/educ ... netics.php

And...but never mind. I was going to post the same exact link that kids-n-peeps posted! :hi5:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I've not had my polled doe give me polled kids yet...she was bred to 2 different horned bucks and had twin horned does the first time and a single horned doe the second time...she was bred to my polled buck last year and kidded in March with a stillborn fully developed buckling and a mummified doe fetus...I know that she was rammed hard by another doe that likely resulted in the doelings early death which in turn caused the bucklings death by entangling in his cord.

My buck has been bred to nothing but 7 horned does, 2 with a repeat breeding and out of 17 kids, 7 were polled....so I'm almost positive that my doe as well as my buck are "Pp" when it comes to the polled genes.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

my friends tiny polled doe gives A TON of milk - her udder is just huge. 

Dont know if its the polled genetics or not though


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

There is no real science behind the fertility or production issue with polled goats. It's all anecdotal evidence usually based on a relatively small population of goats.
For example, years ago I began doing research about Toggenburgs. I was told the usual wives' tale about polled goats often being hermaphroditic and to stay away from polled Toggs. According to reading and study I've done since then, it turns out that the vast majority of the best Toggenburg goats in Switzerland are, in fact, polled. American Toggs aren't Swiss Toggs, they're descended from English Toggs for the most part. Where did the English get their Toggs? From breeders in Switzerland. Do you suppose those breeders sold their best examples to the brits? Of course not, they sold them their second tier goats, just like most of us do. They sold then their HORNED goats, who were considered inferior, thus American Toggs thru English Toggs are almost entirely horned, and probably due to some other parallel genetics the ones that DO end up polled often throw more hermaphrodites. 
I know a breeder who is using Swiss semen for AI on her Togg herd. She has NO hermaphrodites and is pretty close to having a completely polled herd, and they are awesome producers. It's too bad that we all have to fly so blind with our animals, when you consider that goats feed so many more people on this planet than cattle, there's so little science to refer to.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

This is an interesting thread as the 2 possibly three little does I am getting are all polled. I will have to do more research on this.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

elchivito said:


> There is no real science behind the fertility or production issue with polled goats. It's all anecdotal evidence usually based on a relatively small population of goats.
> For example, years ago I began doing research about Toggenburgs. I was told the usual wives' tale about polled goats often being hermaphroditic and to stay away from polled Toggs. According to reading and study I've done since then, it turns out that the vast majority of the best Toggenburg goats in Switzerland are, in fact, polled. American Toggs aren't Swiss Toggs, they're descended from English Toggs for the most part. Where did the English get their Toggs? From breeders in Switzerland. Do you suppose those breeders sold their best examples to the brits? Of course not, they sold them their second tier goats, just like most of us do. They sold then their HORNED goats, who were considered inferior, thus American Toggs thru English Toggs are almost entirely horned, and probably due to some other parallel genetics the ones that DO end up polled often throw more hermaphrodites.
> I know a breeder who is using Swiss semen for AI on her Togg herd. She has NO hermaphrodites and is pretty close to having a completely polled herd, and they are awesome producers. It's too bad that we all have to fly so blind with our animals, when you consider that goats feed so many more people on this planet than cattle, there's so little science to refer to.


Couldn't have said it better myself!  Almost my entire herd is also polled... I breed polled to polled on a regular basis.... I don't have dairy goats but the milk production on some of my polled does might make you think I do! LOL


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## smwon (Aug 3, 2008)

Interesting! I am very interested in polled goats now that I may have some myself...


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

My friends best goat, top milk producer, was polled. She also NEVER had less than quads. She unfortunately died


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