# Bio Tracking Labs



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

We pulled the blood on all my goats on Thursday and friday I sent off all the samples to be sure we have no CAE and then I also sprung for 2 pregnancy tests on my 2 does that the breeder I purchased from thought they would be pregnant.

I should have my results middle to later part of this next week. 

I think this Bio Tracking lab is awesome! It does not cost alot for the testing and you can ship the samples via reg ground mail (although I did mail priority w/a tracking#-for less than $6.00). 

So, I definately wish to maintain a CAE free herd. My question is--as you aquire new goats during the quarantine period do you all have the blood tested for these dreaded diseases? If a goat you purchased did turn out positive do you set up arraingements so that it could be returned to the seller? What is your system for this? 

I would like to work out an agreement with the future breeders I purchase from that I will test, but if the goat did turn up to be positive that I could return the animal within the 1st 30 days. What do you all think about that? Is it common?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

How much are the tests? Do they do just CAE or do they do them all? 
Did you draw yourself?
I got all my goats from tested herds but want to test again since it has been a while. 

I think you would have to make the arrangements with each breeder. If someone bought a goat from me and then told me later it had CL or something I wouldn't take it back to my property; I wouldn't want my goats to get sick and also what was to ensure me that it hadn't gotten it at the purchasers property. I would allow the purchaser to have it tested at my property before leaving by them or by a vet. Also the goat has to be 6mos or older to get accurate test results so that makes it hard sometimes.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Only buy from tested herds and have them tested before purchasing


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, that all makes sense

When you purchase from a herd that is "tested" what do you want to see to ensure that they are testing all goats and that the testing is current? If purchasing a kid do you ask to see the testing results from the sire/dam? If you do how old is acceptable on these tests?

The CAE testing is only $4.00!! & the pregnancy testing was $7.50 per sample

You only need 2cc's or more of blood. I had the veterinarian I work for come out and we actually allowed a veterinary student to draw the blood from my goats. The Bio-tracking site gives quite explicit instructions on how to draw the blood yourself and you only need a common-red top tube to mail the sample in to them. 

I think it would be fairly easy to draw the blood and I would even try it myself next time BUT......be very sure you have someone who can hold the goat (and restrain it well for you-since you are poking around in the neck) and BE SURE you can identify the trachea and do not poke it! I know the veterinary student took her time determining where the trachea was in regards to the jugular viens in the neck before she inserted the needle. Once you get the needle in the right spot the blood pretty much squirts into the syringe on it's own.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would want to see the paperwork for the whole herd and specifically the parents. Some things can stay hidden sometimes so if there are two sets of test results thats even better. If the person has never tested that docent mean you cant buy from them I have sean lots of small breeders that didn't test. I would get the parents tested if I was getting a kid. Just remember that if another member of the herd is positive your goat may get infected. 

I have taken peoples word on tests and now I am all worried. I haven't ever had a sign of anything but.. Now I am always going to ask. If you know the person and you can trust their word that is different. 

I have tons of experience as a vet tech for dogs and working for a wildlife rescue/rehab but goats are newer to me on the vet end. I do my shots but the jugular for a draw is holding me back until I can see it done. :wink: Then I am sure I will be fine with it. I will look into Bio Tracking I have been in contact with WADDLE and am going to test really soon to put my mind at ease.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I am with you there re: the blood draws. lol---I am also the same w/I can tell you ANYTHING about dogs, horses and cats, but I am so new to goats. 

I am a practice manager at a veterinary hosptial for small animals. I give vaccines at work but I have never drawn blood before. I wanted to see the vet student do it so I could get some actual experience. I would want our Dr. to guide me if I did it on my own next time though. I bet you tube would have some video of such things although I haven't looked it up. I held the goats the day she drew the blood so I was right there but the disadvantage was I was up above the heads so I could see the side of the neck/needle but I could not see her insert the needle.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I have found 1 video on U-tube. You cant see much and the lady doesn't narrate enough. Did you trim the area so to see the skin? In the video they didn't. I would think from past experience seeing under the hair would help. In the voodoo it looks a lot more from feel than sight. :shrug:


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

We had prepared to clip the area and then draw the blood-but from what I understood from what my doctor was telling the student and I is that goats have very large and "roomy" jugulars. So when we got ready to draw the blood my vet determined it was not necessary to clip the neck. We just doused the site we wanted to collect the blood from with alcohol-and then the student drew it. 

So as I held the nose of the goat facing straight forward (on the Bio-tracking website it instructs to hold the head at a 90 degree angle, but my vet instructed me to hold it straight) the jugular would "pop" up so that the student could very easily feel it--she would poke around w/her index finger until she could feel the jugular "bounce" under her finger and then she could insert the needle. My buckling (who is 5 months) was the only one that she had trouble discerning the treachea from the jugular veins. I am assuming it is because he is younger and his veins less pronounced. 

With the older does she seemed to have no question of where she was going to draw the blood-but she felt with her fingers to find the perfect spot.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Also, we used 20 gauge needles-not the standard 22 gauge.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I keep thinking I should just try but if I goofed.  

I love and hate my spell check. I just saw that it changed video to voodoo in my last entry. :slapfloor:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I use 20 gage 1 inch needle

Yes I shave the area. Hopefully I can show you soon - maybe after the nu meeting.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would be oh so grateful!!! :wahoo: :dance: :stars:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I drew for the first time myself last month. It was very frustrating on the first girl. I did clip, can't imagine not doing so. I didn't think the veins were very easy to find at all at first. You have to push down near where the neck meets the chest in the groove on either side of the trachea and kind of bounce your finger around down there until you see something moving up and down. Then remember to "flick" the vein once you have it raised several times to get it to kind of solidify a bit. I was told to put the needle in with the tube kind of hovering under the other end, then to snap the tube on when blood started coming out. Problem was it GUSHED like a river the instant I got it in the vein so it took a couple of times to not loose a little. Also, if the flow stops before you get enough and you have to wiggle the needle a little be very careful as if you withdraw the needle from the vein before removing the tube from the needle you will have to start all over. At least with the vaccutainer tubes/needles I got from Biotracking.

It is hard at first and stressful but once you figure it out it gets much, much easier. Goats that like to struggle make it much harder. Lol. The results came back very, very quickly (I also told them to notify me by email though.) Was very simply to work with them!


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Where is a good place to get the tube's?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I dont have the kind that firelight is talking about but I have just the straight vacutainer tubes for sale - I use them for all my testing


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

How much for them and shipping to 49868?? At that price i'll do my whole herd!! My vet won't do it!


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Where do i send the tube's to?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

depends on what testing you want done - CAE can be done by biotracking and its cheeper.
http://www.biotracking.com/goats
BioTracking LLC
1150 Alturas Dr. Ste. 105
Moscow, ID 83843

forms: http://www.biotracking.com/resources/subforms

Sheep and Goat Testing Submission Form
Print and fill out this form when mailing your samples for bioPRYN or bioPRYN and CAE testing. When submitting samples for CAE only please use the CAE submission form.

CAE Submission Form
Print and fill out this form when mailing your samples for CAE testing only.

these two do all three tests - CAE, CL and Johnes
UC Davis - not used them
http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/lab_tests/index.cfm

WADDL - I used them

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/forms.aspx

you need the General WADDL Accession Form and the Identification Form for Multiple Animals forum


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

So it's more exspensive thru waddle?? But NONE of my critter's have been tested by ME or that i know of for any of the diseases so to be safe i would want to do all 3??


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

iddybit call the labs--I called bio-tracking and they were VERY helpful!! I am sure they all would be and they can let you know what you need to do and how to do it


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Ok Biotracking ONLY tests for CAE and pregnancy. BUT they are wonderfully nice and if you do the CAE thru them they will then take your sample over to WSU and you can have the other tests run thru WADDLE. :thumb: Give them a call.


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

So my vet just call's me back and say's oh yeah we can do the testing for you!!! It will be .... $64.00 farm call, 100.00 for an hour to pull all blood sample's, $22.00 per sample for the CL test PLUS $65.00 Fed Ex shipping charge, For the CAE test it will $18.00 per goat!!!!! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Yeesh! 

learn how o draw your own blood - much cheeper


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah i about fell outta my chair when she told me the price's!! So i asked if one of the vet's was in the area if they could come by and properly show me ........ Yup $164.00!!! I said after all i've been thru with you guy's and the issue's i had the last time you were out ( had a moreless dead goat in the barn, but they werent here to look at her ... so didn't .. she's passed away) You can't help me out ........ NOPE! Look's like i'm finding myself a new vet hopefully! That one was the closest at an hour away!!


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Well got ahold of my local vet (dog, cat some farm) and she will draw the blood for me for $7.00 a goat, i have to supply the needle's and tube's. Plus she will teach me how to do it :leap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

awesome!! yay


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Thats great!!


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Just so you know, when the vet does the testing "for you"... what they are saying is they will come out & draw the blood from your goats, put it into their tubes & package it into their shipping boxes, then they pay for shipping to send your samples to the EXACT same places you would have sent it to yourself. It's more expensive thru a vet of course because to stay in business there is mark-up on the blood draw, the shipping, the packaging, the testing, etc, etc, etc, (Which is totally fine, cause they've got to stay in business & I support that idea of course)...you also won't get your results back NEARLY as fast as if you did it yourself. 
All in all... definitely learn to do it yourself!! MUCH MUCH MUCH CHEAPER for exactly the same thing, sent to exactly the same testing place. Kinda a no-brainer once you know how to do the blood draws. :thumb:

Also, when Bio-Tracking says they'll get it to WADDL for you... it's the same concept as the vet... the take your already tested sample in their possession & package it & ship it to WADDL... With Mark-up of course. Not to mention, I'm always very leary of someone else sending "My Sample" to another place to test it.... I mean if it should come back positive would I question whether it was really my sample that was sent?? You Betcha I would! So I'd prefer to send things myself to KNOW that it's MY sample that was send & not accidentally mixed up or mismarked or something... No offense to Bio-Tracking, cause they are AWESOME & super nice people, but things happen...

Therefore if you're doing multiple tests or are doing a FIRST testing of your herd, it makes more sense (to me atleast) to send the samples directly to WADDL. WADDL also has a private Fed Ex account that allows you to use their account # and send your samples via Fed Ex & have it charged to your overall bill (you don't pay the shipping upfront, you pay ONE bill from WADDL instead)...sometimes this is helpful. Just contact WADDL for their Fed Ex number... I _believe_ it's a discounted rate too. But I'm not certain on that. Otherwise you can easily send your samples to either Bio-Tracking or WADDL using Flat Rate USPS shipping boxes for $5... then you can call the testing facility in 2 days to ensure it arrived. I've NEVER had a problem.

Also WADDL can test for a WIDE variety of things including MILK SAMPLES for Mastitis, Abscess contents for Staph & other bacteria, Johne's Disease, etc, etc, etc... :thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well when I talked to Biotracking they said WADDLE was literally down the street and they take it there free of charge. 
But you bring up a great point and that is the possibility for error. Contamination and whatnot. :wink: 


I think iddybit found a great vet willing to charge only for the draw and everything else is her responsibility and thats great!


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Weird... Bio-Tracking that we use is in IDAHO, and WADDL of course is Washington State Veterinary College in Washington...

My first thought.... Must be a long street LOL!!! :ROFL: :slapfloor:

Maybe there's more than one Bio-Tracking center??? Doesn't show one on the website that I see, but I guess you never know???


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Nope at this point Biotracking only has their main location to process the blood. In the future they plan on adding more. I mapquested and it is 19 mins away from each other. ID is right next to WA. :wink: 
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=wsu&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Ha ha ha... so it really is just a long street! LOL! :ROFL: 

That is so cool! Didn't know that... Only knew the address' for mailing... hadnt actually mapped it before... very cool! Love new info! :thumb:


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes, all i have to do is take my goat's 2 mile's down the road to the vet with my supply's and she will draw the blood for me and place it in the red capped tube's.


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

We can get the vacu-tubes from a local vet at a decent price, the needles and syringes at the feed store. 
We've only tested through WADDL (no E.. Lol) and have been happy with their rates. I agree with Stacy... Draw your own blood! It is daunting at first but it's not hard.. And way cheaper. Look at charts and body maps online, even of ones for humans.. It's the same concept really. It's helpful if you palpate.. we've never shaved ours to draw blood either. 

I can't believe what your vet was going to charge you Iddybit!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I dont see teh point in making biotracking make that trip when I can easily just pull a little more blood and put it in a separate vial and send it - thats what Ive done and what I will continue to do (for the same reasons as already stated that I want to KNOW FOR SURE that its my sample I sent in and not a mix up with extra hands handling all the samples.)

if Im pulling the blood im only out a couple bucks in shipping and a couple bucks for the vials (which I have a BUNCH of so its no biggy)


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

freedomstarfarm said:


> Ok Biotracking ONLY tests for CAE and pregnancy. BUT they are wonderfully nice and if you do the CAE thru them they will then take your sample over to WSU and you can have the other tests run thru WADDLE. :thumb: Give them a call.


Thanks for this information!! I called the Bio-tracking labs this a.m. and asked them if they still had my goats blood samples and if they would take them to WADDLE for me so that I could get the CL testing done as well. They are SO NICE they were happy to do it!!

So my goats will get results for pregnancy, CAE and CL all of off 1 blood draw

:leap: AWESOME and thank you again for the tip to ask about the samples being sent over to WADDLE.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Um.....I meant WADDL not WADDLE :hammer:


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## iddybit acres (Feb 18, 2011)

So how much blood need's to be in each vial???? I forgot to ask when i was on the phone with them :roll:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

WADDL suggests at least 5ml.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the CAE test can be done with less then 2cc so depending on how many tests you need done you should have 2cc per test


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Ah Ha. WHen I called I had asked about CAE, CL & Johnes so thats why they said min 5ml. Didn't mean to put false info out there.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I figured thats what you meant -- but wanted to clarify with the info I was aware of. its all good 

if I can only send 3cc I tell them to do as many tests as possible. ive sent less then 2cc of blood and had CAE and pregnancy tests done. so it can be done with less but they like to have more.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

when I send blood to WADDL - I only draw max of 3 cc and I have CAE, CL, Johnes, and Bruc all run off the same vial - They only test off of the serum - not the whole blood. Most of the time I send between 2-3 cc and NEVER have I had the sample rejected for not having enough serum - HOWEVER - I can see that if Biotracking needs serum AND Waddl - off of the same vial - I would want to have the 5 cc - as I have worked in the vet labs for years previously - and the machine sucks up a certain amount of serum for 1 or 5 tests - so two machines sucking up a full amount could easily use up all the serum ;-)


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