# Not enough milk for single kid



## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

i have a single kid who was born 13 days ago - Mom hardly has an udder, and the kid is constantly trying to nurse. She weighed 4.25 lbs at birth, 6 pounds at 7 day’s, and about the same when I weighed her yesterday (suspecting she was not getting enough).
So I upped moms alfafa pellets, she has free choice hay.
I figure I should supplement but I am struggling with her taking a bottle (replacer) and Mom has no milk to put in the bottle to get her started.
I got about 2 ounces in her with a syringe “sigh”....any advice appreciated...


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Do you have whole cows' milk that you could bottle feed her? Sounds like she definitely needs more milk, and soon. I had a similar experience this past summer (mama was sick and was barely making half a cup for her week old kid). It took a few tries but I was able to get him to take the bottle, and after that we fed him twice a day without any hiccups. 
Hopefully someone else with more advice will chime in soon. Good luck!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

How much and what are you feeding mom?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I would keep trying to get her to take the bottle, and switch to whole cows milk.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

Allow the baby to continue to nurse.
I would feed whole milk instead.
Start mama on grain slowly, then increase. 
Calfmanna helps build milk.
Make sure she is drinking plenty of water. 
Alfalfa pellets is good.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

I agree with everything above, and would like to add: Is the bottle warm enough? You might be smarter than I was about it and already know this, but as an ignorant newbie, I tried to feed my doeling cold whole milk from a bottle, and she refused. When (3 days later) I had a light bulb moment and heated it up to goat body temperature (which is a fever for us, so it felt on the edge of uncomfortably warm, but not hot to me), she sucked it down greedily.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement! Mom is about 50 pounds and gets (now) 2 cups of my mix which is 25% dairy ration, 65% alfalfa pellets and 10% boss, I am increasing from the one cup. Also she has free choice hay, loose minerals, water has a splash of acv. 

I just got the kid to take about a 1/2 cup, I put in a little molasses to help the taste. (Yay!) So whole milk would be bettter than kid replacer? If so I will pick up some tomorrow. I hope to give her 2/3 a cup morning and night if she will take it tomorrow.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yay, glad she drank some!

Yes, whole milk is better than replacer.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yep, whole milk is a "whole" lot better for 'em.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Some people have kids that thrive on replacer. Others have kids that scour with replacer, and thrive only on milk. It depends on your replacer, and if you mix it correctly. I use half replacer, and half whole milk, or just whole milk. My kids have done well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awesome to hear.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

How is she today?


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

I am surprised that not one has ask if this is the only goat that you have giving milk ? If not then milk and feed the kid from anther doe. If so, do you have any friends/neighbors that have goats that are milking ? I would think goat milk first and whole fresh cow milk second. Did you happen to freeze any milk from another milking goat ? What breed of goats do you have ??


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

I forgot to say, from my experiences with bottle feeding calves that rubbing the throat of the calf when first trying to get the calf to drink is a good way to make the calf swallow. The same should work with the kid. If it swallows some milk then it should like it and take off sucking on its own.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks for the advice all....things are not going so well again with this little bugger.

She is 4 weeks old today. I have been supplementing her with at first 1/2 replacer and 1/2 whole milk for a week, then switched to just whole milk. What a pain she is - I have tried multiple mixes, nipples and nothing but a bugger this one! She is a chewer, and her mom only lets her take a few sips at a time. She is constantly trying to nurse. When we offer her a bottle she never will finish more than 6-8 ounces, it’s like her stomach is too small to hold more. Sometimes she won’t take any at all (trying twice a day). I have tried taking her from her mom for a few hours to make her more hungry, but she is still not that interested. She is only now starting to nibble hay.
Last week I gave her corid for 4days (forgot the 5th) as a preventative.

Today her bum is messy with scours. I weighed her and she is only 7.75 pounds, but she is a such rambunctious little happy bugger despite it all! I am trying to feed her hay by hand, and alfalfa pellets but she has little interest...she is just so stubborn!

I am very concerned with the scours because of her size- a fecal is a 45 min drive out the vet and back, and I am booked with work for the week - should I just treat another 5 day’s with corid? I was doing the 20% powder mix -2.5 ml a day. She is so small, shall I give her pepto as well?


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I'd worm her and contiue corid


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would do a fecal first. Permanently pull her from mom. She is slowly starving to death. You are right that she is not used to a lot of food. You will have to work hard to get her to take the bottle. I would do a pinch of baking soda for 1 bottle per day. I'd also add probiotics.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Yikes, starving to death sounds so horrible! I will pull her, seeing that and re-reading my post it is clear I need to take action. Thank goodness the holidays are here so kids will be around more to help with feedings ☺


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## Davon (Sep 22, 2017)

Don't want to forget about Mom! ;-) I hope you dewormed her as well? I deworm after kidding and often a drop in milk production means that the worm load is picking up.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

Redbarngoatfarm said:


> When we offer her a bottle she never will finish more than 6-8 ounces, it's like her stomach is too small to hold more


6-8 oz per bottle is all I'm expecting my bottle kids to be able to take safely at her age, and I'm betting my babies are quite a bit bigger than yours. Now, granted I haven't done a lot of bottle babies, so please, if someone else can chime in to help clarify, that'd be great!

Goal is 10% of weight, per day. Because you suspect she's behind, let's target 15%. Check my math...
7lb 12oz= 124 oz; 15% of that is 18.6 oz. So, 18.6 oz is what she should be receiving in the day, at her age broken up into 4 feedings. So, each feeding should be approximately 5 oz of milk.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Tube feed her if you have to


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.

But I don't know that I'd pull her from mama though.
Stress from that will further issues right now. 
If her mama has a little milk, it is good for the kid. Along with several split up smaller feedings to get her the daily milk she needs. If you feed her too much at one time, she won't want it all. 

If you simply cannot get a fecal, worm both mama and baby. 

What color are the scours? If she is nibbling and eating grasses, she will get scours if eating too much, if her scours are green. 
If dark, it can be cocci. You can treat her for 5 days. 

How are the inner lower eyelid coloring on both of them?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She is refusing the bottle. She is used to the little that she gets from mom. Normally I would say leave them together but a 4week old kid should be a lot more than 7 lbs. This really is getting desperate.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

The thing that has me unsure of how big the kid should be at this point is that mom is 50 lbs. I'm guessing dad is similarly small. @Redbarngoatfarm, do you have any kids of similar age that are healthy, to get an accurate weight on? I keep a luggage scale, the kind made for travellers; it can be tared to a bucket to put the kid in. Life saver for me...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

At 1 week old she was 6 lbs. At 4 weeks old she is a little over 7 lbs. So in 3 weeks time she only gained about a pound. Sorry, that is not good at all no matter what breed.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

:update:

























Update! Thanks again for the inputs. To clarify she was 6 pounds at 7 days and almost 8 pounds at 28 days, so she gained 2 pounds. Nonetheless, still reason for great concerns and new course of action!! I have bred lots of minis and usually I would expect doelings to be about 10pounds by 4 weeks.

We are now bottle feeding her 3 times a day, 6 oz if she takes it all (took 5, 4 and 6 today) so that is going better. Also gave her corid again, will for 5 days, her lids are pink, so that is good. I had wormed Mom 3 weeks prior to kidding as her lids were a bit pale then, but nice and pink today, so I think she is good.

I modified my kidding pen and turned into a personal creep feeder for "Sunny", right next to a pen with Mom and some yearlings. She happily chomped on hay (gave her a whole bale, lol) and I offered her alfalfa pellets which she actually chewed! I think we really turned a big corner today 
She still has access to Mom, which I think is best as she is my only young kid, and keeping her separate would stress her and Mom.

Thought I would share some photos of her new playpen, and one of her with mommy as I could sense some real concern from some of you, glad you all care and offer advice!

She weighs 8.2 pounds tonight, will update her weight in a few days again.:7up:


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

In my humble opinion that baby is too young for all the medicine she is getting. Her stomach to torn up but I doubt it is worms or cocci. Did she get enough colostrum to properly start her digestive system working correctly? I doubt it. Get her away from mama and stop the meds. Give her probiotics and get settle with one milk. She is small and will only eat a few ounces at a time. Multiple feeding is what iti is going to take to get her fed up and growing. Give her pepto to help with the scours also there is a red pig medicine for scours that works really well on kids. It called spertro guard. Scour halt also may work for her. Add a little white karo syrup to her milk she will like it. Good luck.


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Oh as a last resort give her a shot under the skin of Baytril. If she is only 7 lbs do the math. 1cc for 100 lbs.is the dosage for calves. It is a lung med but also works wonders on scours. so she will only get a 10th of a cc or ml.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

I don’t believe the corid will do her harm, and I am pretty sure it is coccidiosis, I have lots of kids get it at this age because of their tiny size they seem to be susceptible, hence why I was doing preventative....she is already having less scours, I forgot to mention I did give her probiotics, and some pepto last night and today. She seems to be thriving today, and she screams bloody murder when apart too long from Mom, so as long as she gains weight daily from now forward i think we are good....but I know it can always change quick with kids, so a close eye is warranted!


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

When she walks are her back legs stiff


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

goat girls said:


> When she walks are her back legs stiff


Not at all, she acts like she is 100% all bouncy happy kid!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

TexasGoatMan said:


> In my humble opinion that baby is too young for all the medicine she is getting. Her stomach to torn up but I doubt it is worms or cocci. Did she get enough colostrum to properly start her digestive system working correctly? I doubt it. Get her away from mama and stop the meds. Give her probiotics and get settle with one milk. She is small and will only eat a few ounces at a time. Multiple feeding is what iti is going to take to get her fed up and growing. Give her pepto to help with the scours also there is a red pig medicine for scours that works really well on kids. It called spertro guard. Scour halt also may work for her. Add a little white karo syrup to her milk she will like it. Good luck.


 Wow, wait a minute here.
The kid is at the right age for cocci and worms. 
This kid is 1 month old now.
At 2 weeks old they can get parasites. 
It cannot be ignored as you are suggesting.

The sweet baby is being taken care of properly and it is good she is still with mama.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad the baby is doing better now, good job. 
You are doing the right things IMO.


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Hey if what you are doing is working, wonderful. I am glad to hear that the baby is doing better.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

:update:

Arrrghhh! Good news/bad news for Sunny the tiny goat. She is eating well, was 5 weeks on Monday, and now weighs almost 9 pounds, so she is growing (barely). She gets 6 oz 3 times a day as that is all she will take, and is eating hay well, along with a few alfalfa pellets. I did pull her from her mom so I could better monitor how much she was eating.

She had scours and got 5 days of corid, pepto, electrolytes and probios. By day 5 she was Pelleting poop again, which was Monday. This morning I go in and she has runny Brown diareaha again! Not watery, but wetter than pudding. So I gave her 4ml pepto and her bottle, with 10ml electrolytes an hour later. Will put 1/4 teaspoon probios in her bottle again next feeding.

I am at a loss here, I have not had a kid not recover from the runs after getting corid - so I think I need to call the vet. I am worried about dosing her again without fecal diagnosis. 

It kills me that she is always so hyper and happy, I keep thinking she should be in worse condition, or I will walk in on her suddenly weak, but nope, she is always sunny


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I would try the piglet scour medicine (spectro guard or scour halt) while waiting for the vet. After you finished the Corrid, did you by chance give her any B-Complex and Probios (or probiotic of your choice)?

Poor tyke.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Yes, she got probios daily, except yesterday. I have not given her b-complex, but will - can I give that to her orally? 2.5 ml enough?
I can treat the scours, but am concerned it’s not getting to the route of the issue....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What type of milk and are you putting a pinch of baking soda in one bottle a day?


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

**** milk - no baking soda but will now!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> are you putting a pinch of baking soda in one bottle a day?


Oh, yes. I meant to ask this and forgot. I'm glad you know now.



Redbarngoatfarm said:


> I have not given her b-complex, but will - can I give that to her orally? 2.5 ml enough?


I'm not certain, but I think so, and also that is too much. I'll search for the correct dosage.



Redbarngoatfarm said:


> I can treat the scours, but am concerned it's not getting to the route of the issue....


Yes, I do understand that. That was only what I would do to keep her from dehydrating while waiting for the vet. You have to be the one treating, and you can assess her condition far better than I can. I'm not telling, only suggesting.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

B-complex is absorbed much more efficiently if given SQ, and she'll urinate out any extra.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, pig scour halt will help, go by directions but double it for goats. Give for 3 days, 1 x a day. 

Forgot to ask, how old is this kid?

Getting a fecal is wise for both worms and cocci, so you will know.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Just over 5 weeks now....


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You can't OD b complex.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@toth boer goats What is the B-Complex dosage for her?

@Suzanne_Tyler don't want to waste a lot though...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the kid is around 10 lbs.
Fortified vit b complex is 
6 cc's per 100lbs. 
3 -50 lbs
1.5- 25 lbs
.75 - 12.5 lbs

It won't hurt to give .75 or even 1 cc to the kid.
Cannot overdose it and they pee out what their bidy doesn't need.

I honestly would give it SQ, in the armpit area. 
I don't give it orally unless I have a floppy kid.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Just gave her bottle, she finished 6 oz, pinch of baking soda, scour halt as well. Also gave her .75 sq b12. Her temp was 38, bit low, she has a warm heated place to sleep.
Vet is coming Friday am, tomorrow I will give her a bath again, she is so dirty I feel bad for her! But no sense until the scours ease up.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Vaseline would help protect the skin from the (caustic or acidic, I don't know which) effects of fecal flow. And would help with clean up.


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

You might try feeding her some pumpkin out of a can. Ask the vet about giving her a sub-q shot of baytril. It locks calves down quickly. I use it on calves all the time. Usually one shot is all it takes.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

If worms are the underlying issue antibiotics are not necessary, and I would think may stress her system more - my vet will know what is best. She is now pooping clumpy again so thats good.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

So I gave her a bath, she is hunched, tail down and quiet for her. I think I noticed a lice or two, so will dust for that - makes me think I should give her a shot of ivermectin, if I give that to her now, and vet comes and gets fecal tomorrow morning, will that already have killed potential worm eggs in her fecal? I feel like she needs something, ya know how moms just ‘know’ 

What would you do? Wait, or treat?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I would certainly think the wormer shot would affect the fecal results.

(((Hugs))) I don't have an answer for you. But I'm here.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks Mariarose- she just pooped and it was thick pudding, and painful, bloody on her pooper like hemroids, poor thing, I put Vaseline on, and called the vet- she advised .5 cc penecillan im which I did, the vet will be here in the morning.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When you see her, ask her about Albon. It is what finally helped my Hera. Orange flavoured Albon in a dropper. She licked the dropper clean and one time grabbed it out of my hand and trotted into the kitchen with it. That has been my only experience with it, but it was the medicine that helped.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Are you sure she didn't prolapse?

38 degree temp? 

A vet should see her soon, not Friday, if she did prolapse.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> 38 degree temp?


Probably Celsius? 38 C is 100.5 F? Or something like that.

That's how I took it, anyway.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks, I was like, oh my, that doesn't seem real.
Celsius always throws me off, we go by fahrenheit.

Temp is still a tad low.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I agree, that is low. Just not stopping-the-heart low that 38 F would be.

Now, I could be wrong as to what was meant. That was just how I understood it...After my own, "That can't be right!" moment.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Redbarngoatfarm said:


> So I gave her a bath, she is hunched, tail down and quiet for her. I think I noticed a lice or two, so will dust for that - makes me think I should give her a shot of ivermectin, if I give that to her now, and vet comes and gets fecal tomorrow morning, will that already have killed potential worm eggs in her fecal? I feel like she needs something, ya know how moms just 'know'
> 
> What would you do? Wait, or treat?


I would probably wait. Giving a wormer now would kill any worms and they would come pouring out of her system, giving very high counts.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Sunny is really doing great today. The bad news is the vet says she has a heart murmur stage 3/4. She said it’s hard to say her prognosis, but she will likley be very stunted. She took a fecal and will get back to me later today on it.

I am pretty dissapointed as she was a single kid from a very prized Fainter I have, and she was going to be a future breeder in growing my herd. I hope she does live as she is sweet, just won’t be breeding her in the future. 

Scary to think her heart may just give out one day too....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry about the heart murmur.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OUCH. I'm so sorry.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks all, fecal was 01 for coccidiosis and othwise clear. She said just keep an eye on it with her and make she doesn’t eat off the ground. Continue penecillan for two more days to help her bum heal, as it is already looking much less raw.

Thanks again for all the help and support goat friends!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is doing OK.

Sorry about the murmur.


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