# Are we screwing up?



## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

If you’ve read my stuff..you know we’ve rescued two female goats and two old arthriti pot belly pigs..and more from a farmer who was sent to jail for not taking care of them..we got them in aug. they were..are skittish..they always lived together and were family to each other...so that’s what we did here. We bought a billy right away to have kids..Chester .he’s had four beautiful Nigerian dwarfs...we are unsure what the girls are...typical day...get Chester out first..we have 35 acres much of it hay...we feed him from a large scoop we bought at feed store..mix grain ourselves according to internet info...we tie him on about 200 ft...girls come out..get fed and are left free range..they love this..at first they wouldn’t go near us..it took hours to get them to let me touch them...to feed them from a bucket and my hand..and an apple..is huge to me... I put harness on loose after leaving a dog collar on awhile because they had sores..but I thought they needed harness..just read to take off..so I did..then I feed pigs..there is always f4ress hay and minerals in barn ...water all over...ducks, chickens , goose, rabbits , dogs , rooster ...this farm was created in 8 months..so I’m hoping for help ...I read pigs can’t be with goats ...but these guys are pot belly ..old...and always together ..shouldn’t that make. Difference? I’m sure I missed something..I’m trying really hard...the goats never go far from Chester and we are always out and can see them and if we even run to store they go in fence...they are never out of sight in other words..they stick together..Chris has had goats before..so he’s not as dumb..lol


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

I know lots of people who have small pigs and goats running together is pastures. By small, I mean potbelly, KuneKune, Juliana etc.. I would not reccomend putting a full size meat pig in with goats at all! But I have a bunch of friends with small pigs and goats together and they do very well. They even have their piglets in with goats and it's very cute to see a pasture full of little pigs and goats! Now I have heard that pigs will eat chickens if given the chance. But your pigs should be fine with the goats especially since they've been together for awhile.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Oh my goodness I am so glad to hear something positive about this! Not that others gave me a rough time..but they definitely gave me many warning that the pigs would eat the goats, but pot belly pigs do not eat. Meat..they eat veggies and chicken food and hay...so I think we’ll keep them together until we run out of room when the kids come along...lol. Plus. We definitely have different feeders for each type and such...we’ll see how it goes bu I really appreciate your kind comments..I don’t have to spend the night how I’m going to tell my hubby all this..lol


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Oh my goodness I am so glad to hear something positive about this! Not that others gave me a rough time..but they definitely gave me many warning that the pigs would eat the goats, but pot belly pigs do not eat. Meat..they eat veggies and chicken food and hay...so I think we'll keep them together until we run out of room when the kids come along...lol. Plus. We definitely have different feeders for each type and such...we'll see how it goes bu I really appreciate your kind comments..I don't have to spend the night how I'm going to tell my hubby all this..lol


I can see that happening with a full size pig, they'll even eat humans sometimes, but a potbelly? Not happening. I don't reccomend keeping them with the goats when they are kidding and I'd wait until the kids are up and around before introducing them, but that's standard with anything you keep in with your goats. @Texas Skyz raises and breeds KuneKunes. I'm hoping she can give you some more information on how she does things and if she ever separates her pigs and goats. I know hers graze with the goats in the pasture. And we are talking really nice, expensive goats, so there is no way she would do that if there was a chance of injuring her prize goats. I know of several other champion farms who keep pigs with their best goats and kids without problems. I even have pictures. I'll find one tomorrow and post it.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

T


Morning Star Farm said:


> I can see that happening with a full size pig, they'll even eat humans sometimes, but a potbelly? Not happening. I don't reccomend keeping them with the goats when they are kidding and I'd wait until the kids are up and around before introducing them, but that's standard with anything you keep in with your goats. @Texas Skyz raises and breeds KuneKunes. I'm hoping she can give you some more information on how she does things and if she ever separates her pigs and goats. I know hers graze with the goats in the pasture. And we are talking really nice, expensive goats, so there is no way she would do that if there was a chance of injuring her prize goats. I know of several other champion farms who keep pigs with their best goats and kids without problems. I even have pictures. I'll find one tomorrow and post it.


hank you..that's what I need. Positive reinforcement Yeah...by no means are our goats ever going to be money makers...we bought Chester for $30 for an old couple who just didn't have it in them to deal with his milarky....so..our goats will be..sold for fun...not to make money..I k ow we'll sell Chester because of blood line..but who knows then..and we don't plan to go to the vet until the babies are born since it's going to be expensive...so we are charting it the old fashioned way? Who knows for now I know we have a ton of work to do before winter..what do you think is most urgent..I mean the big stuff..changing fencing, etc,,I can order meds, feed boxes, but if I over when him with it all at once he'll get tired and to ignore it for an hour..but he really goes out and works on other projects that we hadn't designed first..ugh


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

I think the most important thing right now is to stock up on medicines for winter. I'm not sure where you are, but winter usually means cold, wet, damp, perfect pneumonia weather. Then you have spring which means worms and lots of em! Herbal wormers are the best to use. Garlic and other herbs help with building up the immune system and it might be best to start that now.
@NigerianDwarfOwner707 can help you with all the details on the best herbal companies and what to use when.

If you do decide to use chemicals or want a backup, I would at least get Safeguard and Ivermectin dewormers. Both can be found at Tractor Supply. If you want, you could get some penicillin for pneumonia, but that doesn't always work very well. I prefer garlic and vitamin C for that.

Are your goats on minerals? They are very important for maintaining a proper balance in the goat's system that both helps keep the goat's overall health and makes an uncomfortable environment for worms to be in. @mariarose is the mineral expert here.

I would also get Red Cell and NutriDrench from Tractor Supply in case you have any anemia trouble from worms or a goat acting down or off. They are lifesavers. Probiotics are extremely important to have on hand as well.

As for the feed troughs, just get more of the black bowls from Tractor Supply or look around. It's amazing what can be repurposed as a feed bowl! It doesn't have to be anything fancy. As long as it's going to hold up to daily use, holds food, is safe easy for the goat to reach into, it works!

Good fencing is vital for your herd, but if you already have fencing and a barn, and it's either or, I would get some basic supplements and medicines like the ones I listed above.

That's all I can think of for right now, tonight. I will probably think of some more tomorrow and edit when I add the picture. Enjoy your goats and pigs! They are wonderful little animals. A friend of mine just rescued a potbelly and put it with her goats. It gets along perfectly with the whole herd and is very fun to watch!

Oh and definitely some syringes from Tractor Supply to administer everything when you need to. My favorites are the 6cc and 12cc. You should only worm when the goat needs it and you can tell by the color of the lower eyelid. It is called the Famacha score. You can look it up and see pictures of examples and what it is supposed to look like. The paler the eyelid the heavier the worm load. You want them to look deep pink. If you worm every month, the worms can develop resistance to the wormer and then it won't work when you really need it. That only applies to chemical wormers, not herbal. That is one of the wonderful things about it. You can't really overdose, unless you really try lol, and you don't have to worry about milk withdrawal or resistance!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

I think the reason everyone was saying keep the goats and pigs apart is because of kidding. Baby goats are small and having the pigs around during that is risky.

I'd recommend thoroughly reading as many articles (that apply to what you are doing with your goaties) on this page as you can. http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/articlesMain.html
They are written for people with large numbers of goats but you can still get a ton of valuable information from them.

And, you are always welcome here. This is the place to be if you want to take good care of your goats.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> I think the most important thing right now is to stock up on medicines for winter. I'm not sure where you are, but winter usually means cold, wet, damp, perfect pneumonia weather. Then you have spring which means worms and lots of em! Herbal wormers are the best to use. Garlic and other herbs help with building up the immune system and it might be best to start that now.
> @NigerianDwarfOwner707 can help you with all the details on the best herbal companies and what to use when.
> 
> If you do decide to use chemicals or want a backup, I would at least get Safeguard and Ivermectin dewormers. Both can be found at Tractor Supply. If you want, you could get some penicillin for pneumonia, but that doesn't always work very well. I prefer garlic and vitamin C for that.
> ...


Oh geez..so much new info..I was prepared to go buy the tractor supply bottle and do it monthly...we are in NW PA and yes it is very cold wet damp, etc for winter..we are building a second big barn I mentioned with a heated hot water rank and electric everything necessary..so herbs are the way to go? We already have penicillin for our dogs.....we used to breed...we are using different pasture spots because I know they get worms from eating contaminated grass...and this is gross but..our ducks..actually eat the seeds out of the pig poop So the pig poop is mostly gone....hmmm..lol..ok...I'll keep these threads and contact the people you mentioned..thanks and I hope to hear more from you


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Oh geez..so much new info..I was prepared to go buy the tractor supply bottle and do it monthly...we are in NW PA and yes it is very cold wet damp, etc for winter..we are building a second big barn I mentioned with a heated hot water rank and electric everything necessary..so herbs are the way to go? We already have penicillin for our dogs.....we used to breed...we are using different pasture spots because I know they get worms from eating contaminated grass...and this is gross but..our ducks..actually eat the seeds out of the pig poop So the pig poop is mostly gone....hmmm..lol..ok...I'll keep these threads and contact the people you mentioned..thanks and I hope to hear more from you


I believe dog penicillin is different from goat penicillin though I'm not 100% sure. I would definitely reccomend herbs over chemicals, though I would keep the chemicals on standby just in case something really bad comes along. Herbs work slowly and naturally which is one of the reasons why it's better for the goat. Chemicals are designed to work as fast as possible. Sometimes you need that, but you shouldn't if you have them on a good herbal regimen. And sometimes the fast cure can be worse than what the goat has. As for the wormer, I definitely do not reccomend doing it monthly. That would build up resistance in a hurry. Just keep an eye on their eyelid color and overall condition. Some symptoms of parasites are scours, loss of appetite, lethargy, listlessness and above all anemia. There is a lot of good info about parasites and wormer here on this site. I reccomend reading some of the old threads here and seeing what worked and what didn't.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Look up Fir Meadow LLC and go to their website. I recommend purchasing HerBiotic herb mix.

And the look up Land of Havilah Herbals and purchase their parasite formula.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I think you're probably safe with the pigs. Especially being a small breed and especially being old. Like someone else said, the main concern is during kidding. And I think most people when they think pigs, are thinking the larger breed farm hogs that are more prone to indiscretion about what they eat. 

I have Kunekunes, which are another small pig breed. I only kept one with a goat once, for about 8 hours, and I don't think he even knew or cared that there was a goat in with him. The goat was terrified though, haha. But not because of anything the pig did. My pigs live full-time with an obnoxious rooster, so if they were going to be prone to eating other livestock, he'd be long gone by now. I'd feel pretty safe keeping my goats and my pigs together if I had a big enough pen. My main concern would be feeding them and keeping them out of each other's feed. And I would still separate at kidding time just in case. But if yours are all getting along right now, I don't see any problem with letting hem continue to live together.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Denise Troy said:


> many warning that the pigs would eat the goats,


that the pigs MIGHT chew on a goat, if it happens it is too late. But, if they are already friends, that is a great difference, pigs, like humans, normally do not eat their family members!

I recall a bad accident when a young male goat had got stuck in a pit, and the pig had chewed through the skin and begun to draw the guts out. But that same pig defended his goats when a strange animal (unknown to their human, possibly a bear) was heard in the forest.


Denise Troy said:


> ...by no means are our goats ever going to be money makers...


Why not? Ask ReNat and Damfino for advice! If you do it on the goats' conditions, they might like it very much!


Denise Troy said:


> .what do you think is most urgent.


A functional apron for the buck, until you know more about kidding! If the does are old and virgin, I would suggest no kids at all from them! I have seen (and heard!!) the torture when a goat tries to deliver a kid that will not get out.


21goaties said:


> I think the reason everyone was saying keep the goats and pigs apart is because of kidding. Baby goats are small and having the pigs around during that is risky.


And don't forget the smell! Pigs have a tremendous ability to smell, and they most probably find afterbirth delicious.


21goaties said:


> And, you are always welcome here. This is the place to be if you want to take good care of your goats.


Yes! It is really nice to learn about your animals, and how much you love them already.

Only beware of Goat Maths ...


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> I believe dog penicillin is different from goat penicillin though I'm not 100% sure. I would definitely reccomend herbs over chemicals, though I would keep the chemicals on standby just in case something really bad comes along. Herbs work slowly and naturally which is one of the reasons why it's better for the goat. Chemicals are designed to work as fast as possible. Sometimes you need that, but you shouldn't if you have them on a good herbal regimen. And sometimes the fast cure can be worse than what the goat has. As for the wormer, I definitely do not reccomend doing it monthly. That would build up resistance in a hurry. Just keep an eye on their eyelid color and overall condition. Some symptoms of parasites are scours, loss of appetite, lethargy, listlessness and above all anemia. There is a lot of good info about parasites and wormer here on this site. I reccomend reading some of the old threads here and seeing what worked and what didn't.


Sounds good..right now the goats don't let me touch their eyes...can I see the eyelid color from like three feet away?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Denise Troy said:


> Sounds good..right now the goats don't let me touch their eyes...can I see the eyelid color from like three feet away?


I do not think so, you have to see the inside of the eyelid ...

So, the first problem might be to tame them so that they find it is okay that you touch them in diverse odd ways.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> I do not think so, you have to see the inside of the eyelid ...
> 
> So, the first problem might be to tame them so that they find it is okay that you touch them in diverse odd ways.


:up:

Yes, this page explains it: https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/FAMACHA-Scoring_Final2.pdf


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> If the does are old and virgin, I would suggest no kids at all from them


Can you explain that a little more? I have never heard that. I know if can be harder to get older does bred, but I had some kid for the first time at 3, 4, 5 and even 7 for the first time with no trouble.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Their bones may not stretch as well at kidding time. Just harder and more brittle. Just generally stretches out better at a younger age.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:up:


Do know, mixing animals, there is always risk.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> that the pigs MIGHT chew on a goat, if it happens it is too late. But, if they are already friends, that is a great difference, pigs, like humans, normally do not eat their family members!
> 
> I recall a bad accident when a young male goat had got stuck in a pit, and the pig had chewed through the skin and begun to draw the guts out. But that same pig defended his goats when a strange animal (unknown to their human, possibly a bear) was heard in the forest.Why not? Ask ReNat and Damfino for advice! If you do it on the goats' conditions, they might like it very much!A functional apron for the buck, until you know more about kidding! If the does are old and virgin, I would suggest no kids at all from them! I have seen (and heard!!) the torture when a goat tries to deliver a kid that will not get out.
> And don't forget the smell! Pigs have a tremendous ability to smell, and they most probably find afterbirth delicious.Yes! It is really nice to learn about your animals, and how much you love them already.
> ...


Wow..love how you used my quote to answer..cool...ok, the one goat has given birth because her teats are bigger than normal..the other is young probably born this spring...we can definitely separate pigs in different barn when kidding now that I realize the issues, I just didn't want to separate them all now since them did grow up together and are source of security....as for feed...we feed the pigs chickens feed now..told it has more protein and better for this breed...and the goats hate it,..lol..so that issue is resolved . One down... plus they all eat Timothy hay...I will definitely get herbal deworming meds since you all say they work the best...thank you...we have to keep the halter on Chester because as you know..a billy need some restraining and manners..lol...but the girls seem very happy here and even love our noises ducks...the pigs are sooo ugly but friendly...lol..thanks guys


Trollmor said:


> I do not think so, you have to see the inside of the eyelid ...
> 
> So, the first problem might be to tame them so that they find it is okay that you touch them in diverse odd ways.


yeah I'll say..I was trying to touch their eyes while feeding them this morning after reading all this...they didn't let me one bit...how do you tame a goat that fast? I mean I work with them..but this is a farm...hobby farm..but still very busy...I just don't have hours to work with them..


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

21goaties said:


> :up:
> 
> Yes, this page explains it: https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/FAMACHA-Scoring_Final2.pdf


Does this Fascima card..use the herbal medicine or the prescription...


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

21goaties said:


> :up:
> 
> Yes, this page explains it: https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/FAMACHA-Scoring_Final2.pdf


Does this Fascima card..use the herbal medicine or the prescription...


toth boer goats said:


> :up:
> 
> Do know, mixing animals, there is always risk.


well, for now, since they were raised together and they are old pot belly pigs...I'm going to keep them together until Jan....then I hope..it'll close to kidding..and we can put the pigs in the other barn until the new additions are old enough to be introduced to their farm family...a year or so I would guess? Another question since I have you all here... I read we keep Chester while our doe is pregnant...we don't plan to keep him after kiddies because he is a lot of work and we'd probably just buy another Billy when it's time again....is that horrible for me to say or is that how it works??


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Does this Fascima card..use the herbal medicine or the prescription...


The FAMACHA system, as the page states "allows small ruminant producers to make deworming decisions based on an estimate of the the level of anemia in sheep and goats associated with barber pole worm (Haemonchus contortus) infection"

It depends on the situation whether you use herbals or chemicals. Both can be necessary. You should have the chemicals at least but preferably both.

@NigerianDwarfOwner707 's blog explains herbals: https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/2018/12/22/how-we-started-herbal-deworming-for-our-goats/
Read this page too: https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/2019/02/24/conducting-an-overall-health-assessment-for-a-goat/

Fecals are important to get before you deworm so you know what you are treating.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/whyarestomachwor.html

Hope this helps and feel free to ask any other questions!!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> well, for now, since they were raised together and they are old pot belly pigs...I'm going to keep them together until Jan....then I hope..it'll close to kidding..and we can put the pigs in the other barn until the new additions are old enough to be introduced to their farm family...a year or so I would guess? Another question since I have you all here... I read we keep Chester while our doe is pregnant...we don't plan to keep him after kiddies because he is a lot of work and we'd probably just buy another Billy when it's time again....is that horrible for me to say or is that how it works??


So you would sell him to someone? Does he have a buddy that is not female? You could make him a separate pen from the girls as long as he has a buddy.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> I think the most important thing right now is to stock up on medicines for winter. I'm not sure where you are, but winter usually means cold, wet, damp, perfect pneumonia weather. Then you have spring which means worms and lots of em! Herbal wormers are the best to use. Garlic and other herbs help with building up the immune system and it might be best to start that now.
> @NigerianDwarfOwner707 can help you with all the details on the best herbal companies and what to use when.
> 
> If you do decide to use chemicals or want a backup, I would at least get Safeguard and Ivermectin dewormers. Both can be found at Tractor Supply. If you want, you could get some penicillin for pneumonia, but that doesn't always work very well. I prefer garlic and vitamin C for that.
> ...


Ok wait..the red cell and NutriDrench at tractor supply....those are substitutes for doing the FAMacha score or are they what you give after doing it? And do I really need to go to a class to know how to do that scoring like it said on the website?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> I believe dog penicillin is different from goat penicillin though I'm not 100% sure. I would definitely reccomend herbs over chemicals, though I would keep the chemicals on standby just in case something really bad comes along. Herbs work slowly and naturally which is one of the reasons why it's better for the goat. Chemicals are designed to work as fast as possible. Sometimes you need that, but you shouldn't if you have them on a good herbal regimen. And sometimes the fast cure can be worse than what the goat has. As for the wormer, I definitely do not reccomend doing it monthly. That would build up resistance in a hurry. Just keep an eye on their eyelid color and overall condition. Some symptoms of parasites are scours, loss of appetite, lethargy, listlessness and above all anemia. There is a lot of good info about parasites and wormer here on this site. I reccomend reading some of the old threads here and seeing what worked and what didn't.


Ok...I just went on the website suggested for the herbal deworming..it said to give it a lot to get started..but then a maintenance dose every other week....but in here you just not to do it monthly...so do I buy the herbal but not do it that often?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

21goaties said:


> So you would sell him to someone? Does he have a buddy that is not female? You could make him a separate pen from the girls as long as he has a buddy.


I supposed we would sell him..that's what his previous owners said to do...he does not have a buddy..but we didn't understand that billy goats never leave gals alone....so I suppose tonight I will be trolling the net to buy another goat..Chris will love this..lol...so once I get a wethers...then I put them in a new fenced area. And another barn? Can we at least build on to the smaller one? Can the fences touch so I can use the one side as two parts of fencing?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, it is best not to keep the buck with the doe after 3 months pregnant, but even then, it that is pushing it.
If he is chasing her, you will have to remove him then and there, if she is already preggo. 

For me, I keep my bucks with the doe for 2 heat cycles, then remove. 
If after that time, one looks to be in season, I will test her near a buck, if she is in season, I will pull a buck and move the doe, to a pen, so they breed.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Ok...I just went on the website suggested for the herbal deworming..it said to give it a lot to get started..but then a maintenance dose every other week....but in here you just not to do it monthly...so do I buy the herbal but not do it that often?


It is the chemical wormer that you do not want to give monthly. As I said in another post, it is very difficult to overdose on herbal wormer and that can be given every day if you want. It works by making the environment very uncomfortable for the worms which keeps them away. They are not poisons that kill the worms like chemicals. So yes, definitely give the herbal wormer as often as the directions say.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Ok wait..the red cell and NutriDrench at tractor supply....those are substitutes for doing the FAMacha score or are they what you give after doing it? And do I really need to go to a class to know how to do that scoring like it said on the website?


No, you don't need to go to a class. You can get the hang of it pretty easily at home and by looking at pictures online to get an idea. The red cell is for anemia if your goat has pale eyelids. The NutriDrench is for vitamins and minerals when you have an off or sick goat. They have nothing to do with FAMACHA except if they are anemic you give red cell.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Morning Star Farm said:


> It is the chemical wormer that you do not want to give monthly


:up:



Morning Star Farm said:


> No, you don't need to go to a class. You can get the hang of it pretty easily at home and by looking at pictures online to get an idea. The red cell is for anemia if your goat has pale eyelids. The NutriDrench is for vitamins and minerals when you have an off or sick goat. They have nothing to do with FAMACHA except if they are anemic you give red cell.


Yep, you can learn it from the pdf I sent: https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/FAMACHA-Scoring_Final2.pdf

If you want the FAMACHA card, you can take an online class: https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/famacha/

Nutridrench burns their throat so you only give it if you really have to.

Red cell can be given every day for about 5 days and then weekly after that, to treat an anemic goat.

You calculate the dosage based on the goat's weight: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Nutridrench burns their throat so you only give it if you really have


Now I never would have guessed that. I would give it straight at shows for an extra energy boost, in addition to other times, and mine would take it like candy, especially the kids.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Morning Star Farm said:


> Now I never would have guessed that. I would give it straight at shows for an extra energy boost, in addition to other times, and mine would take it like candy, especially the kids.


Ours hate it, and @toth boer goats told me it burns, but I know all goats are different.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Ours hate it, and @toth boer goats told me it burns, but I know all goats are different.


How funny!! I would give it to all my kids right after they were born and they loved it. It would perk them right up too if they were weak. I always figured it was sweet because of the molasses. Smelled horrible though, I was the one who hated dealing with it, lol.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Ok wait..the red cell and NutriDrench at tractor supply....those are substitutes for doing the FAMacha score or are they what you give after doing it? And do I really need to go to a class to know how to do that scoring like it said on the website?


No, those products are not a substitute for anything. Those products are to be given only when necessary to treat an ailment.

No, you do not need to go to a class to learn how to do FAMACHA scoring. You just need to learn how to inspect the inner eyelid. The FAMACHA score is used to detect anemia.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Those products (namely red cell, I don’t speak for nutri drench) are made to help anemia.

Anemia is what is detected by FAMACHA scoring.

FAMACHA scoring is very easy. Simply pull down the lower eyelid and see what the color inside is. Simply put, it should be pink.

There is a different technique that is taught by FAMACHA professionals where you actually press on on the eyelid on the top and then pull down, and this allows you to see the mucus membranes more deeply.

The color will range from a 1 or 2 (dark pink, regular pink) which is good, a 3 which is sorta not great but still pink, a 4 (very light pink) not good, and a 5 (WHITE) VERY BAD!!

Google FAMACHA scoring and go to videos and you will see all kinds of examples to get a feel for it.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Yeah, it is best not to keep the buck with the doe after 3 months pregnant, but even then, it that is pushing it.
> If he is chasing her, you will have to remove him then and there, if she is already preggo.
> 
> For me, I keep my bucks with the doe for 2 heat cycles, then remove.
> If after that time, one looks to be in season, I will test her near a buck, if she is in season, I will pull a buck and move the doe, to a pen, so they breed.


Ok.. I saw the first time when she was in heat. And I've calculated days since but, like it said o the net...8-24hrs..it may be hard to see. So I never had luck seeing a second heat..and I can't tell by behavior because they are free range during the day and she does choose to go see him. But I'm not always by that pasture....I'm around just not always watching...and for a Stormy..she's our little one that we think was born in the spring..well we have no clue other than we can see she hasn't been bred...I have not seen her in heat..we don't want to take them for blood work for preg tests...we want to wait for all of that until kidding if possible...is there a way..we could just sell Chester once she's 3 mths? I thought they have to be around..but then I know you can just go breed goats together at different farms one time..I guess I'm saying..what's most economical because I have really asked this poor man to bend over backwards this year...lol..he's a saint


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

It would be best for the youngest one, born this spring, to not be allowed to be breed at such a young age. Next breeding season would be a better time frame. The young one needs more time to develop physically and more importantly, mentally mature enough to become a parent.



Denise Troy said:


> we don't want to take them for blood work for preg tests...we want to wait for all of that until kidding if possible...


I don't understand what you are trying to say in the above quote. Would you please reword or explain what it means. Thank you.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok, spoke to Chris after looking online for goats, in our area was about $150....which is not too bad..but with everything, we have decided that once the girls are definitely about 3 mths pregnant we will sell Chester. He shouldn’t be hard to sell..we bought him 3 days after they put the add up..he’s a good looker..lol...but, with the pig separation and all, this would be less stress. And I found the herbal deworming, buying tomorrow


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> It would be best for the youngest one, born this spring, to not be allowed to be breed at such a young age. Next breeding season would be a better time frame. The young one needs more time to develop physically and more importantly, mentally mature enough to become a parent.
> 
> I don't understand what you are trying to say in the above quote. Would you please reword or explain what it means. Thank you.


I was told you need to take goats for blood work to know they are pregnant..or a sonogram..we don't want the extra costs..there has to be an old fashioned way of knowing for sure?


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> I was told you need to take goats for blood work to know they are pregnant..or a sonogram..we don't want the extra costs..there has to be an old fashioned way of knowing for sure?


I never could afford or wanted to spend the money on that, though I wished I could. There is no fool proof 100% way of knowing for sure without blood tests, but the most sure sign is lack or cycling and interest in the buck. You'll also notice them getting bigger and as they get closer to kidding their udder will start to develop or fill depending on if they've kidded before. When they get really close, within a few days, you'll be able to calculate an exact time through the softening of the tendon ligaments.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> I was told you need to take goats for blood work to know they are pregnant..or a sonogram..we don't want the extra costs..there has to be an old fashioned way of knowing for sure?


Ohhhh, so, how do I know that she is actually young other than she is smaller? I'm not sure they are the same breed maybe Stormy is a Pygmy? If that's the case she could be older...is there a way to tell by teeth or hooves?


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

http://www.luresext.edu/?q=content/ageing-goats

Here is a link for telling a goat's age by its teeth. I was always told they loose a tooth on each side in the front starting when they are a year old. My goats were all registered, so I knew their birth dates, but occasionally I looked at their teeth and found that to be true.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Morning Star Farm said:


> I never could afford or wanted to spend the money on that, though I wished I could. There is no fool proof 100% way of knowing for sure without blood tests, but the most sure sign is lack or cycling and interest in the buck. You'll also notice them getting bigger and as they get closer to kidding their udder will start to develop or fill depending on if they've kidded before. When they get really close, within a few days, you'll be able to calculate an exact time through the softening of the tendon ligaments.


Ok, but don't I need to get rid of Chester by 3 mths...will they..she be big enough by then? She looks bigger..I said that two weeks ago..but Chris though I was nuts..so I put a post on here about it...it would be early...they met aug 30? It was a only a few days when I noticed her in heat.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Ok, but don't I need to get rid of Chester by 3 mths...will they..she be big enough by then? She looks bigger..I said that two weeks ago..but Chris though I was nuts..so I put a post on here about it...it would be early...they met aug 30? It was a only a few days when I noticed her in heat.


Can you keep him penned separately and/or find him a friend? Unless it's a concern for him to get loose and breed his daughters if you get any, I don't see why you couldn't keep him for more than one year.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Morning Star Farm said:


> Can you explain that a little more? I have never heard that. I know if can be harder to get older does bred, but I had some kid for the first time at 3, 4, 5 and even 7 for the first time with no trouble.


Congratulations! Mine have had difficulties when giving birth for the first time in old age. The bone ring gets harder.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Denise Troy said:


> how do you tame a goat that fast?


That is the problem, it can not be done fast ... 


Denise Troy said:


> billy goats never leave gals alone


At least it is a very effective way to make him angry, to separate him from his duties!


Denise Troy said:


> Ok, but don't I need to get rid of Chester.


As I said, there are *aprons*!


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Congratulations! Mine have had difficulties when giving birth for the first time in old age. The bone ring gets harder.


That is very interesting. I can see how that could happen as they get older and their bones become more brittle. However I wouldn't consider a doe old until she reached 7 or 8 and even then you can still see some in excellent shape. But I can see what you mean. That was one of the reasons I had to retire my Nubians when they were around 10-12yrs of age, the other being that they were such massive big framed animals, they just couldn't hold up anymore. The Nigerians could go until 14-15 with no trouble. They were so much easier all around! I love Nubians, but never again. Full size goats are not for me.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> That is the problem, it can not be done fast ... At least it is a very effective way to make him angry, to separate him from his duties!As I said, there are *aprons*!


But, if we don't need him, and he's just another mouth to feed, and I can't play with him because of the horns and his behavior...I can't see why we'd keep him..yes, we're alttle attached..but we knew that was the plan, so we didn't let him in as a pet if we though he was staying


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

This way I could actually go in the barn and get the chores done the way they’re supposed to be done...I can’t go in if he’s there because we don’t have him sectioned off...we didn’t know...I take care of the animals and the house..Chris does the building stuff and manages our apartments...❤


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Were he mine, I would put an apron on him if I want the does not to get pregnant. Buy you obviously want kids, so you don't need an apron. Has he done his job? You don't want him for next year? In that case, if he were mine, I would put him in the freezer, so I would KNOW what he goes through in life.

But, of course, that's me ...


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> Were he mine, I would put an apron on him if I want the does not to get pregnant. Buy you obviously want kids, so you don't need an apron. Has he done his job? You don't want him for next year? In that case, if he were mine, I would put him in the freezer, so I would KNOW what he goes through in life.
> 
> But, of course, that's me ...


Well, I have no plans on eating anybody so,I think we'll sell Chester since he is a nice, yet spirited billy..pretty sure he's done the job..both does have grown exponentially...and on the right side more so..we are forgoing the blood tests..so I'm keeping track and within a month..if they still grow..using the old rope around the midsection...because he's not grown..then he's up for sale...


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok, so the pigs and goats will not we together once we switch to new barn in Nov..we got separate feeders for the goats so hoping everyone gets about the same amount...I’m working on the eyelid touching, just to gain trust...we put a ton of straw down in the barn because it had rained and the mud was being tracked in..the minerals are up high so the pigs can’t get it..the feeders too..we feed them at the same time so they are all occupied with their own dinner..works so far...we are pretty sure the girls are pregnant..made the calls to the vet..but not doing blood work at this point..that may change..we plan to sell Chester soon..we just don’t need another complication of building another fence and barn for another goat now..hopefully we are keeping all the kids and have one as a wethers for the next billy..ok thanks again


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:great:


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Denise Troy said:


> Well, I have no plans on eating anybody.


Okay! I still urge everybody to keep good control over what actually happens to an animal before it dies.


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