# When to put mom and kids back with the herd...



## Hartwigfarms

Hello. Would like your advice and personal experience on this.

I have a couple of does that are due and one that has had babies. Right now current situation*** mommy mocha is in a birth stall, "A" with her baby boy. He is 12 days old. Doing fine...

Doe 2 frost is in birth stall "B" awaiting birth any moment hopefully. 

I have no more birth stalls but have one more doe due in a couple of weeks. Don't know exact date since it was a surprise lol.

I have a main stall for all the doe to go in during the non-birthing season. And for those who are not giving birth....

That's my barn setup.

So my question is. How old do you wait until you turn mom and babies outside of the birthing stall? And can they go in with the rest of the herd? When can they go in with the rest of the herd.......

I'm planning on selling the boys and keeping 1 girl. Selling the rest. If that helps.

Also, my pasture setup is main pasture is set up in front of the barn connected to a big stall for all goats, and birth stall A connects to this pasture as well.

Pasture 2 is connected to birth stall B. This pasture can be gated open or closed and connected to the main pasture.

Pasture 3 is a stand-alone pasture with no shelter yet in it. It was my newest addition. Not connected to any stall or barn or shelter.


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## Damfino

I never separate my mamas and babies from the herd for any length of time. If a mama is eminently due I'll lock her in a shed at night either by herself or with one other goat to keep her company depending on her preference. Once she kids I lock mom and babies up together for 1-3 nights but let everyone run together during the daytime. After that initial first couple of days everyone runs together all the time. I've found that this really helps the moms because the dry and expecting does often do babysitting duty. Moms can get really tired of their demanding little brats if locked up alone with them for too long.


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## Hartwigfarms

You don't think the other goats will be mean to the baby


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## ksalvagno

For me it depends on the doe and kids. I've had them in a stall anywhere from 24 hours to 3 weeks.


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## Damfino

Hartwigfarms said:


> You don't think the other goats will be mean to the baby


So far I have not had goats that were mean to babies. I've always been warned to watch out for older goats hurting young ones but I just haven't seen it in my little herd. Not one goat has ever given me cause to worry and I think if one did I might get rid of it. I have a dry yearling doe and two young wethers who are most likely to butt the kids, but even they have not butted hard enough for me to worry. The kids learned really quickly which adults are safe to play and nap with and which ones to avoid. My herd queen loves other goats' babies and will often babysit. Sometimes if one of the adolescent goats is being mean to babies, an older goat will intervene. Truth be told, most of my goats avoid the very little kids like they were the plague. It seems they only begin interacting with them after about a week when they are old enough to act like goats and can jump aside when told.

Since your mamas and kids have been separated from the herd this long, I definitely recommend close supervision when you put them together, especially if you don't know how your other goats will react. But I really think you'll be surprised how well the babies integrate. I know I was!


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## cowgirlboergoats

After about 4-5 kidding seasons, we have only had one kid die because a doe tore into him. By the time that my dad got to the pen, the doe has done her damage.. Other than that, the kids learn to say away from the big goats.
We do have a small pen that the babies can go into to get away from the mommas. The way we have it set up is that we have 3 pens. The mommas are in the left and right pens with creep feeder gates that lead to the middle pen. 
For the birthing pens, I say that since that kid is a single, kick them out. If they only had a single, they stay in the kidding pen for 2 days, unless another goat just had kids and there are no open stalls. 
The only time that they stay in a pen for a bit is if they had 4 and needs a bit more feed, or if the doe had 5 kids, and the single that was alive was so small. 

Good luck with the kids that are coming!


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## ShireRidgeFarm

I put the momma goat and her babies out with the rest of the herd usually after a week or two - it depends on how unhappy the momma is being in the kidding stall. It usually takes some time for my herd to accept the babies; I just watch and see how everyone is interacting. I start with letting them all together during the day, then putting the momma and babies away separately at night. After two weeks, I separate the babies from their momma at night so I can milk the doe in the morning.


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## Hartwigfarms

Ok awsome. I have a little doe who is pushy and has horns. I love her but she doesn't tolerate goats smaller then herself that's who I'm worried about being mean


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## luvmyherd

It definitely looks like goats are being mean. But it is generally just establishing a pecking order. If my kids are up and healthy and nursing they go out on day one. If I have room I will separate them at night just so Mama can eat and rest without competition. 
We have a young man in our neighborhood who loves to come and visit and check everything out. One of the two day olds tried to nurse off of the wrong doe. He was promptly *told* that was not okay. Yeah, she knocked him down. He jumped up and ran to Mom. (The visiting young man had a look of panic on his face.) I told him not to worry, that the little guy had gotten his first spanking. 
We have never had a kid damaged by an adult goat. And our buck runs with the herd after kidding and before breeding season. The couple of kids from other farms that I know have been killed were kicked by their own mothers.
It is important to pay attention to your individual goats and their personalities and make your own judgement call. But a 12 day old and momma should do just fine.


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## nicolemackenzie

I don't separate at all. Any aggressive goat doesn't have a place in my herd.

They will butt the kids away but won't attack them.

Where they've been separated for a while I'd be careful and watchful.


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## Jessica84

I keep mine apart as little as I can, most of the time not at all. If the weather is good and mom and kids have it together they stay with the herd. If it's cold they get about 24 hours or just over night in the stall. Anything over that is because something is up. Weak kid, first time clueless mom, or tiny who adopted another kid lol 
But my reasoning behind it is the more time mom is apart from the herd the more chance the rest is going to swear they have never seen her before and start the pecking order figuring again and usually kids get in the middle of that. I've never had a kid hurt this way and to be honest many of my goats are nasty. Moms keep babies with them or stash them out to come and eat and usually the rest, even being wicked will just give the kids a small butt to tell them no


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## Damfino

I'm with Nicole. We culled a doe partly for aggression last year (aggressive to other mamas, not to babies). The only reason I lock my almost-due and just-kidded does up at night is because of my electric fence, not my other goats. Until the babies are quite mobile and I've actually watched them get zapped several times, I do not want them toddling into the fence when I'm not around. My goats like to give a new mama and her kids their space. Usually for the first week, the other goats all cram-jam into one shed while mom and her kids get the other all to themselves. They know it's open because they'll go in there to finish the hay when the babies are out, but once mom and kids come in for the night, the rest pile into the other. 

Keep a close eye on your aggressive doe, but don't panic the first time she butts the kids. I have an aggressive young wether who is much the same way (he's bottom of the totem pole, so when someone smaller than him comes along he just has to show them he has horns). But I've found that when it comes to babies, he also pretty much ignores them unless they are right in his way, and even then he only hits one if none of the bigger goats are close by. He knows any one of them will pound him for his act of unprovoked aggression. But not every herd is the same, so definitely keep watch. 

Luvmyherd: I kept a buck with my mamas and babies for a while two years ago. He was incredibly gentle and sweet with the babies. He would play with them, and when he laid down they would all pile on him. He never chased them away. The buck I had with the kids last spring, on the other hand, was a deadbeat dad. He claimed no responsibility and would leave whenever the babies came near him. But even "deadbeat" was never mean.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I leave my mommas and babies in the herd, but I only have three does  I did have to separate a mom and her babies for a few days this year because one of the other babies was drinking all the milk and the doe was still at the stage where they just lick and mother everything in sight, so she was separate until she learned who were and weren't her kids.


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## wndngrvr

I also only keep them separatefor a few days if they seem to need it. I have a kidding stall and usually keep a heat lamp on for new babies. If the babies are active quickly they go out with the others after a couple of days. Right now I have a set of triplets that were a little early so may keep them separate for about 4 day. Will depend on mom. If babies are jumping around they can go out with everyone. 
Hubby just built me a new long feeder against a wall and babies already decided that was a good place for them to hide. In the birthing stall I use the heat lamp the first day and then for their first couple of nights as our evenings are pretty cool. Seems to work well for me and babies are thriving.


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## Hartwigfarms

All great advice thank you. 
The doe in particular I am worried about being mean is the lowest on the totem pole. She has horns my others no not. She is smaller then the other adults and whenever a new goat is introduced she tries to beat up on it to get off the bottom of the pecking order. I'm just a little worried since she is the only one with horns and being that she can do that to new comers what she would do to a baby. She's also preggo. Now my mama goat with her baby boy was in the top running for herd queen. She was never mean about it just everyone new she was boss. Now during her pregnancy she seemed to drop to second in command. But never below that. I wonder how it will all play out putting them back into the herd.


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## odieclark

This is a great thread, and I need to study this closer to understand better.

Also, not sure if you creep feed, or have suggestions? I saw and replied to Karen on an older thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toth boer goats View Post
Creep feed and feeder is a way to feed them a good protein grain ect and a good hay, in an area for the youngsters to get into and the adults can't. They go in and out of it when ever they want to.

If she is given creep feed, it will help her gain weight, make an area for her to get into and slightly increase what you are giving her a little at a time. Calfmanna is a milk pellet and may help, along with nobel goat grower or equivalent.
Are you familiar with a product of creep feed made by a company called big gain?

We are trying to understand creep feeding, any suggestions are helpful!


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## odieclark

Also, anyone familiar with "game plan starter," from Kalmbach feed company out of Ohio ? 

Other suggestions?


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## nicolemackenzie

Interestingly my herd queen falls in status while pregnant. She is 12 now so I thought it was age related but last year once she gave birth she took back over. She's a kind leader and they just seem to know she's in charge and yield to her without fighting.

She's due in a week or so and again this year fell in status. It will be interesting to see if she retakes her position again.

Herd dynamics are very interesting!

I don't have a creep feeder but separate kids at night with grain, hay, and water. 

I would also be concerned about your horned doe trying to move up on the totem pole, so a creep area would be ideal and lots of supervision.

Good luck!


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## odieclark

*Doe at 12 years and creep feeding!*



nicolemackenzie said:


> Interestingly my herd queen falls in status while pregnant. She is 12 now so I thought it was age related but last year once she gave birth she took back over. She's a kind leader and they just seem to know she's in charge and yield to her without fighting.
> 
> She's due in a week or so and again this year fell in status. It will be interesting to see if she retakes her position again.
> 
> Herd dynamics are very interesting!
> 
> I don't have a creep feeder but separate kids at night with grain, hay, and water.
> 
> I would also be concerned about your horned doe trying to move up on the totem pole, so a creep area would be ideal and lots of supervision.
> 
> Good luck!


Oh my gosh! She is 12 years old? Seriously, that's incredible! Wow! 12, can't be the norm for still having kids? Gosh, I would love to meet this goat! Please update us on her and her kid or kids! When is she due?

Best wishes, you must be very experienced! Please update and post pics!

God Bless


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## odieclark

*Herd dynamics & creep*



nicolemackenzie said:


> Interestingly my herd queen falls in status while pregnant. She is 12 now so I thought it was age related but last year once she gave birth she took back over. She's a kind leader and they just seem to know she's in charge and yield to her without fighting.
> 
> She's due in a week or so and again this year fell in status. It will be interesting to see if she retakes her position again.
> 
> Herd dynamics are very interesting!
> 
> I don't have a creep feeder but separate kids at night with grain, hay, and water.
> 
> I would also be concerned about your horned doe trying to move up on the totem pole, so a creep area would be ideal and lots of supervision.
> 
> Good luck!


I started a new thread on the farm having the creep issues, if you or someone was aware or had suggestions on how to solve our dilemma, or perhaps it's not at all?!

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f218/creep-feeding-kids-187353/
:sleeping:


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## nicolemackenzie

odieclark said:


> Oh my gosh! She is 12 years old? Seriously, that's incredible! Wow! 12, can't be the norm for still having kids? Gosh, I would love to meet this goat! Please update us on her and her kid or kids! When is she due?
> 
> Best wishes, you must be very experienced! Please update and post pics!
> 
> God Bless


I started in 4H in 1999. My leader kept my old girl while I was in college and such.

My old girl comes from long lived lines. Her granddam was at least 16 when she passed, other relatives have lived to be about 14. Most kidding up to 10-12.

Facetious started as a 2yo first freshner and was milked through instead of bred a couple times. She had triplets in 2012 then had two years off ( although she kept nursing the one doe kid she had till she was two ) she kidded twin bucks last year, and then a doe and a buck a week ago. She had them both out in between my checks. No issues. I don't plan on milking her except to keep her comfortable this year and won't breed her again. She's dam raising. Buck will leave in September and hopefully she weans the doe on her own this time. I'll cross that bridge when we get there.


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## iteach64

I had twins born yesterday. I found them when I went out to the barn so I don't know when the were born. They were out with the other goats. I saw one goat pick one up with her horns and throw it. That was late in the afternoon.... it just got up and was not hurt. The babies are with all the other goats.... sometimes they try to nurse the wrong mom.


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## odieclark

*Nursing goats and sell*



iteach64 said:


> I had twins born yesterday. I found them when I went out to the barn so I don't know when the were born. They were out with the other goats. I saw one goat pick one up with her horns and throw it. That was late in the afternoon.... it just got up and was not hurt. The babies are with all the other goats.... sometimes they try to nurse the wrong mom.


I read earlier today, that when the kid butts the doe/mom, ..well, the nursing mom typically parts her legs and if the kid comes in head towards moms tail, se smells the but to recognize her kid! We are new at this, but I thought that was funny!:hi5::slapfloor:
:slapfloor:

Glad the kid was ok!


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## odieclark

*Weening independently*



nicolemackenzie said:


> I started in 4H in 1999. My leader kept my old girl while I was in college and such.
> 
> My old girl comes from long lived lines. Her granddam was at least 16 when she passed, other relatives have lived to be about 14. Most kidding up to 10-12.
> 
> Facetious started as a 2yo first freshner and was milked through instead of bred a couple times. She had triplets in 2012 then had two years off ( although she kept nursing the one doe kid she had till she was two ) she kidded twin bucks last year, and then a doe and a buck a week ago. She had them both out in between my checks. No issues. I don't plan on milking her except to keep her comfortable this year and won't breed her again. She's dam raising. Buck will leave in September and hopefully she weans the doe on her own this time. I'll cross that bridge when we get there.


Love it! Wow! Very cool story and ancestry! :hi5:

Any photos?:whatgoat::Love to see what she looks like!


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## catharina

iteach64 said:


> I saw one goat pick one up with her horns and throw it. That was late in the afternoon.... it just got up and was not hurt. The babies are with all the other goats....


That does not sound good at all. Do you have a way to separate the kids & their mom, or remove the goat that did this? This is not any normal play behavior I've ever seen. Normally aunties or even dad will just put their horns down & allow the kid to butt against them. As they get older they will carefully & gently butt back. If a kid approaches the wrong doe to nurse she will chase them away sort of meanly, but nothing like you described.


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## iteach64

The baby goat that was thrown with a doe's horns is doing fine. The twins will be a week old tomorrow and have been with the herd since birth.


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