# cdt prior to kidding...question



## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

So this is it... 2 does, first bred on Aug 30th, then both went into heat again 8 days later and were not bred again. They were bred the next cycle, and one was even bred a 3rd time. Now they both look as though they could be due this coming month... they are way bigger than my doe who is definitely due Feb 9th. (probably with a single). 
SO... my plan is to give all 3 cdt shots around Jan 9th??? 
The first due date possible is Jan 24th... the 2nd due date would be around Feb 19th.
Does this sound like a good plan? I'm just trying to get it done with all the variables....


----------



## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Sounds good to me.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is best to make it 1 month prior....to each due date.... it will protect the babies better... if given 1 month prior rather that 2 to 3 weeks.... :wink:


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I was wondering about this too. Only, How soon is too soon to give it?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

1 month is the best time to give it...it gives it time to go through the Does system to help protect the babies...for a awhile after they are born.... If you forget to give it at 1 month along then....2 weeks prior.. will still protect them some.... but a month is better.....

Anything sooner than a month.... won't do any good to protect the babies...
This is for a Goat that already had their booster shot.....

For a Goat that hasn't had any CD&T ever.... you can give it 3 months prior to kidding... cause you will give it at 3 months ...then the booster will be given at 4 months along (28 days later)..... which is 1 month prior to kidding...


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Pam! My son's doe is due in 6 weeks, I need to vaccinate twin boys and was going to do the doe as well, but I'll wait to do her, and just do the boys for now. Now it kind of 'stinks' how the girls are due...heh. If they all took they are due in 6 weeks, 7 weeks and 8 weeks LOL A shot a week !


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is best to give them the shots when each Doe needs them.. that way... everyone's babies are protected..... :hug: :thumbup:


----------



## DulmesFamilyBoers (Feb 26, 2011)

> Anything sooner than a month.... won't do any good to protect the babies...
> This is for a Goat that already had their booster shot....


.

We have 2 does that are due sometime in the next couple months. No bagging up yet, so I don't expect it any time soon. Sorry Toth, I'm not sure I understand your quote entirely. Does your statement "anything sooner than a month" mean that anything more than a month before kidding won't do any good? I would think as long as it gets into the does system and the doe is protected, the kids would be somewhat protected. 
Unfortunately we didn't get an accurate due date this time :GAAH: which means a whole lot of waiting and wondering. Any suggestions?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Sorry Toth, I'm not sure I understand your quote entirely. Does your statement "anything sooner than a month" mean that anything more than a month before kidding won't do any good? I would think as long as it gets into the does system and the doe is protected, the kids would be somewhat protected.
> Unfortunately we didn't get an accurate due date this time :GAAH: which means a whole lot of waiting and wondering. Any suggestions?


It can be given 2 weeks prior to kidding but...it won't have as full protection as it would .. if you give it 1 month prior.... this is for momma and her babies.. both..will be protected ..... if you give it 2 weeks prior...they have some protection ...but not full protection....

If you say your Does have about 2 months left to go...start watching and feeling for udder development in 2 weeks........ I would give it to them 1 month before kidding.....if you believe they have 2 months to go.... or when you see the udder starting... and you have no due date... Hope I answered you question.. if not... let me know... :hug:


----------



## DulmesFamilyBoers (Feb 26, 2011)

I will probably just wait for udder development, and hope it is about a month. I know some will develop sooner, but I'm not sure how else to determine the best time. 
Thanks for your help


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your very welcome..... :thumb: 

It is very difficult to determine if... they start filling at 1 month or 1 and 1/2 months....I wish I had a better indicator then that for ya.... :hug:


----------



## Guest (Jan 8, 2012)

The thing I haven't heard.is C&D Anti-toxin Which is for your newborn kids.
I give my kids 5cc as soon as they are born with a 5cc booster 21 days later. Then any females that I still have will get a CDT shot 2cc at 10 months, which is 30 to 60 days before they kid. I realize that environment and weather play into what types of challenges you face and how many animals you have. If I am kidding in March or April I will face wet muddy conditions and for me the shot is before the colostrum if I get there first. Frozen ground is better. Sometimes the umbilical cord sucks up bacteria and liquids the anti-toxin helps. I am starting to kid now with the first 3 does kidded today 6 kids, 123 Does to go.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

CD Anti-toxin vaccine is used in medical emergencies... when immediate but short-term protection is required....

Cd&T is long term protection... from tetanus and over eating disease... and is best to give a healthy animal... with no health issues..this is what I give my babies and Adults..the CD Anti-toxin isn't the right injection to give.. unless it is an emergency situation.... :thumb:


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

On the bottle it says "recommended for the prevention and treatment of entero-toxemia caused by Clostridium perfringens types C&D in calves, lambs, sheep and baby pigs" 
I have never had this Anti Toxin save the life of a kid after it was detected only prolong its agonizing suffering. The kids go to market in less than 5 months, CDT wont do much for a young animal, their is nothing that hurts a producer more then seeing a 30lb kid die because you were too tight to give it 2 shots in 3 weeks. And believe me when you see losses of 20 percent or more because you didn't is well according to my goat friend/Vet, "not the best move I made". I skipped those shots in last Marches kids mostly because supply was not there with the calves being born. I lost a lot of kids to toxemia. I guess things are different here but I do know that I don't lose kids when I do as the Vet and other larger producers in my area convince me. Or I light the crematorium to burn my mistakes. 
I do give my replacement Doelings a CDT shot at 6 months and their booster later.
All Does get 1 CDT shot annually and that is just before kidding.All I know is that it works and I will not stop using as long as conditions are less than ideal.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have been using CD&T for many ..many years..I have boers....
I vaccinate the momma's(that already had their booster) at ..1 month prior to kidding...so the babies are protected a while after they are born.... Then... I vaccinate the kids at.. 2.5 to 3 months of age.. with the CD&T...I give the Booster shot 21 to 28 days later.... I have never had them get sick ..with entero-toxemia caused by Clostridium perfringens types C&D.... I do not use the C&D unless.. I need to use it for some reason....but... I have never had to....... 
As I mentioned before... the proper vaccine to build up their immunity against all the bad things is the CD&T vaccine ... along with the booster... shot 21 to 28 days later...
C&D ..is only a temporary thing...it leaves their system relatively Quick....and doesn't protect.... 
The CD&T lasts for a year in their system....after they have had the booster shot....Some give it every 6 months ...while others give it annually....

I am sorry to say this but... I have a feeling that is why you have lost so many babies.... because you are not using the CD&T ...which is long acting ...rather... you are using the short acting stuff ...that doesn't protect them very long.... allowing them to become sick anyway....


> I have never had this Anti Toxin save the life of a kid after it was detected only prolong its agonizing suffering.


 You must give the CD&T vaccine in order to protect them and follow up with the booster.... C&D is short term...

If... for any reason... the goat comes up with an issue ...then C&D must be given......it cancels out the CD&T vaccine...so ...the goat after treatment and is well again...must be re-vaccinated with the CD&T vaccine....otherwise... just giving the C&D will not work to protect...

I have never had a goat kid or Adult get any of these illnesses or have any that have died on me...using the CD&T vaccine....



> And believe me when you see losses of 20 percent or more because you didn't is well according to my goat friend/Vet


The difference in losses... that you have described compared to mine is huge ...20% or more is a big loss and I am so sorry that happened... 

This is my :2cents: :thumb:


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2012)

Things happen. I will e-mail Professor Gilpin at Langston U and see what he says. The difference in cost is relative. The reason I lost so many kids in March was because there was no vaccine available. I lost 0% of my July kids and batting 1000 so far this year. With kidding just starting and me sitting on 300 doses I will have no problems this winter
I'm not saying you are wrong, its just what these people at the Expos and even my Vet have told me to do, as a matter of fact I hope you are right it will save me a lot of money.
I guess the reason I have been told this is that it has been successful or at least as far as we know. 
It just irritates me that one says one thing and another says something else.

Thanks


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Things happen. I will e-mail Professor Gilpin at Langston U and see what he says. The difference in cost is relative. The reason I lost so many kids in March was because there was no vaccine available. I lost 0% of my July kids and batting 1000 so far this year. With kidding just starting and me sitting on 300 doses I will have no problems this winter
> I'm not saying you are wrong, its just what these people at the Expos and even my Vet have told me to do, as a matter of fact I hope you are right it will save me a lot of money.
> I guess the reason I have been told this is that it has been successful or at least as far as we know.
> It just irritates me that one says one thing and another says something else.
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## Guest (Jan 14, 2012)

OK I never got a reply from Professor Gipan but did just get off the phone with my vet. She said we were both right to some extent. The things that happen here are way different then where you are, in that your farm must not have been an old hog confinement.
The reason she has told me to give the anti Toxin it to protect the kids from all the things I have in my dirt. She said that giving them the CDT would not protect them for 2 weeks until it takes effect,unless the Does were for sure given the shot at the proper time. If I give the CDT shot at birth the colostrum would kill the vaccine, which it won't the anti toxin. She also said that after this initial shot to give the kids the CDT at 2 to 3 weeks of age since the Anti-Toxin will have left the system about the same time that the CDT vaccine takes effect. I suppose that in every case it is different but do know that is is nearly impossible for me to run my animals through at the ideal time 21-30 days before kidding.With this place having been a hog confinement every birth is an "Emergency", and all kids that don;t get the Anti Toxin run a huge chance of catching something and dying before they reach 24 hours.


----------

