# 4 week old buckling not well



## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

When we went to open the barn this morning Cole didn't come out of the kid stall. I went and got him to match him up with his mom and he was just standing there seeming really lethargic. He sort of pawed at the ground with his front leg. He did nurse when I put him next to his mom. I gave him all the same round of stuff I gave him at birth (a little nutridrench, selenium and vit. e gel, and vitamin b complex gel). Temp is 104.6. Called the vet and she can't make it out until later but said to give 1/2 cc Thiamine injection and if it wasn't needed he would pee it out. He screamed when I gave it to him and it was good to see that much energy. We have him in a stall with his mom and a heat lamp because we had a cold front come through yesterday (it still 60 degrees, so not really "cold"). He is standing now but keeps sort of pawing at the air with his right front leg and I have no clue what that means. And advice is appreciated!


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Can you get a fecal quickly to check for cocci/worms? Thiamine is good just in case.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Jubillee said:


> Can you get a fecal quickly to check for cocci/worms? Thiamine is good just in case.


I don't know how quickly we could get a fecal back. The only times we have had them run was at the vet and they called us a week later with results. I figured 4 weeks was a little early for worms since he isn't even really eating food yet. I can ask the vet to run a fecal though when they are able to make it out here.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

They dont need to be eating food to get worms it cocci. They nibble and taste things on the ground all the time. Kids come down with cocci around the 3 week mark...which is why some start preventative treatments at that time.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Thank you! I didn't know that. Would cocci symptoms include the fever and weird pawing (hooving? lol) the air?


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am glad you called the vet, hopefully they can come soon!
From what I read, pneumonia comes to mind as a possibility.
I am hoping some other members come on soon with more advice.
@Moers kiko boars @SalteyLove @GoofyGoat @ksalvagno


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> I am glad you called the vet, hopefully they can come soon!
> From what I read, pneumonia comes to mind as a possibility.
> I am hoping some other members come on soon with more advice.
> @Moers kiko boars @SalteyLove @GoofyGoat @ksalvagno


I worried about pneumonia also. We had it in one of our older goats this summer and aside from the pawing the air part he is acting similar to her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with possible pneumonia. Temp is high. Do you have antibiotic on hand? Not sure why he's pawing the air..that is curious unless he hurt that leg.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> I agree with possible pneumonia. Temp is high. Do you have antibiotic on hand? Not sure why he's pawing the air..that is curious unless he hurt that leg.


We have LA-200 on hand. I know that's not the "best", but we got a big bottle before we knew better.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Can you get Tylan 200?

I have no idea why a vet would recommend just thiamine for a goat with a fever. Hm.

I would be concerned about pneumonia as well.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Check his temp again. Is he urinating? Is he deficating? What color is his defication? Have you listened to his lungs? Is their any mucus from his nose?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Check his temp again. Is he urinating? Is he deficating? What color is his defication? Have you listened to his lungs? Is their any mucus from his nose?


Checked temp again, it's up to 105.2. I didn't see him pee, but he did have normal pellet defication that was brownish. I tried to listen to his lungs but I don't really know what to listen for, I didn't hear anything alarming. He does have some white goopy mucus in his nose now.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Can you get Tylan 200?
> 
> I have no idea why a vet would recommend just thiamine for a goat with a fever. Hm.
> 
> I would be concerned about pneumonia as well.


Vet said any time they have a sick goat they give thiamine just in case because sometimes it does the trick. I don't have Tylan 200 but I will look at the feed store today.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I did notice when he breathes out there is a little sound like the beginning of when we say "ahem". It's not really loud or crackly, just noticeable.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You really need to see him pee. He really needs Banamine and antibiotics with that temp.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

For my young ones..i get robitussim dm..they get 5cc drenched with 1/4 of a zinc tablet crushed in that drench. Then Vetrx for his nose. I put electrolytes in his water. The robitussin I give 2xs a day..the 1/4 zinc tablet 1 time only. 
If pnuemonia..their will be a rattleing sound when they breath. You can hear the sounds in the lungs. Colds..they can have clear snot, fever, and not want to eat. But my little ones will eat about 1 hour after the 1st drench. And their temp drops.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Definitely watch for pee we don't want anything secondary going on,. but it sounds quite likely to be pneumonia, Tylan is the best OTC option but your vet could give you Nuflor which is even better, banamine too to bring down the fever.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get banamine and Nuflor from your vet.

The kid most likely has pneumonia. Unless the umbilical cord area and legs are swollen.

LA 200 is hard on a kid that young.

Seek a vet for proper meds right away.

Also being 1 month old, is a prime age for cocci and worms, get a fecal as well.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Ok we will get on the antibiotics and something to bring down the fever. I will ask the vet for Nuflor and banamine. I'm going to call again and update her on symptoms so hopefully that will bring a sense of urgency and bump the visit up to a higher priority. 
He did eagerly nurse a couple of times, so that was encouraging! He isn't really walking much, but he stood and we brought mom to him. I'm going to repeat in an hour or so to make sure he stays well fed. He certainly does not feel skinny and his tummy does not feel empty.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope the baby will be OK and you can get the meds quickly.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

My vet often gave thiamine as well when goats sick. 
La 200 is ok in a pinch if you can't get a better antibiotic asap. 1 cc per 20 pounds sub q once a day. 
Give garlic and vit c to help boost immunity. 

Its good he's nursing well.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Vet said pneumonia most likely. She thinks the pawing is just him acting weak and trying to walk. He's a little more alert now, got antibiotics and meds to bring down the fever. Still nursing well. He's in a pen with his mom so now all we can do is keep up that treatment, wait, and pray. Thank you all for the guidance!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this! I hope your baby gets better!:hug:


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Babies get sick quickly but with the right treatment, usually get better pretty quickly. When he starts feeling better, be sure and continue the antibiotics for the full course. 
How is he doing?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

He is doing a little better this morning. When we went in to check he was up and moving around and nursing on his own. Temp is still slightly elevated at 104.4.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

So glad he is starting to improve! I hope he recovers quickly for you!! :hug:


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> So glad he is starting to improve! I hope he recovers quickly for you!! :hug:


Thank you! I'm holding out hope that he makes a full recovery. The vet did mention that it's very iffy with "premies", but hopefully the fact that he did so well after being born early means he's strong. I just worry about if he was a little behind on lung development that pneumonia might be harder for him to get over.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Draxxin is a great antibiotic for lung infections. While i prefer nuflor for daily use..giving draxxin 2 times 7 days apart goes directly to the lungs. I would continue the nuflor along with Draxxin. Draxxin is pricy!!. Key is stop the infection quickly before damage is done. 
Other things to help the lungs is essential oils. A Doterra blend called Breath is excellent. Daily garlic is always good.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Draxxin is a great antibiotic for lung infections. While i prefer nuflor for daily use..giving draxxin 2 times 7 days apart goes directly to the lungs. I would continue the nuflor along with Draxxin. Draxxin is pricy!!. Key is stop the infection quickly before damage is done.
> Other things to help the lungs is essential oils. A Doterra blend called Breath is excellent. Daily garlic is always good.


I'll have to check and see which antibiotic the vet gave. I was dealing with a 1 year old human child that was throwing a fit so I had to go inside the house when the vet was here. I do actually have a bottle of Doterra Breath so I'll give that a try! We do garlic as a preventative so I'll keep that up too. I hadn't given it to the babies yet, but do I need to make it into a paste or anything? The older goats just get an unpeeled piece in their handful of treats.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sorry you human kid was ill..sure hope he/she is feeling better.
With Breath..just add a drop or 2 to carrier and rub on goats chest..and can do a swipe under his nose.

Making a garlic paste does make it easier to gice garlic to kids. You can even dilute the measures dose to be able to drench it.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Sorry you human kid was ill..sure hope he/she is feeling better.
> With Breath..just add a drop or 2 to carrier and rub on goats chest..and can do a swipe under his nose.
> 
> Making a garlic paste does make it easier to gice garlic to kids. You can even dilute the measures dose to be able to drench it.


Oh the human kid wasn't ill.....just ill-behaved lol!!


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## Boers4ever (Jun 28, 2020)

I hope your baby gets better fast!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

How is the baby doing today?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

He is showing slight improvement. He's not walking too much, but he does move from spot to spot. We had the heat lamp on because it got cold overnight (about 40 degrees). He was standing and had a full tummy when we checked this morning. He's been a little more alert, looking around and responding to us coming into the pen, so that's good to see! Before we started the antibiotics he was just sleeping all the time and we would have to pick him up.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Ohh, good to hear!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Just a heads up just in case type scenario 
Keep a close eye on his joints..look for any joint swelling. A bad infection can cause joint ill. I had a young buckling years ago have a severe case of pneumonia. Took longer than normal seemed to get better..he then started limping and we noticed swollen knee. We took him to our vet to rule out a break. Sadly the infection settled in his joints. We learned that if infection goes sepsis it can effect one or more joints or the bladder and kidney. Aggressive treatment will be needed as soon as you suspect joint ill. Similar to naval ill, 10 full days of a strong antibiotic would be needed along with dexamethsone an vit c.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Just a heads up just in case type scenario
> Keep a close eye on his joints..look for any joint swelling. A bad infection can cause joint ill. I had a young buckling years ago have a severe case of pneumonia. Took longer than normal seemed to get better..he then started limping and we noticed swollen knee. We took him to our vet to rule out a break. Sadly the infection settled in his joints. We learned that if infection goes sepsis it can effect one or more joints or the bladder and kidney. Aggressive treatment will be needed as soon as you suspect joint ill. Similar to naval ill, 10 full days of a strong antibiotic would be needed along with dexamethsone an vit c.


We actually had one of our other goats with pneumonia and joint-ill this summer. It was touch and go, but she survived it and now you'd never be able to tell anything was ever wrong with her! Thank you for the heads up though. I will keep a close eye on it!


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

SO glad he is doing better. When we get pneumonia here, it takes 2-3 days or so to see them truly getting back to normal. It's yucky stuff. I agree about the Draxin! We lost an adult to fast-acting pneumonia recently (necropsied by vet. Jumping around fine night before and no symptoms, next morning gone) and he gave me draxin for the rest of the herd in case it was contagious as we'd had 2 die like that at once. It was a rough week. But he said it targets the lungs and is longer lasting.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Pneumonia is tough on the herd. There are two kinds. Interstitial pneumonia also known as silent pneumonia. Most likely what your goat had Jubilee as it is quick to kill. Often first sign is a dead goat. This type is not contagious. 
Pasteurella pneumonia is contagious and temp can get super high. We had this blow through our herd some years back. Lost one doe but saved the rest. Many of temps were as high as 108. 
We keep a close eye on everyone when we have extreme temperature changes.


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## alisonbond (Jun 3, 2016)

Gas? The pawing is usually a belly ache isn't it? Had the same thing happen to a baby calf. Thought I was going to lose her, she burped, farted and ran off!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

alisonbond said:


> Gas? The pawing is usually a belly ache isn't it? Had the same thing happen to a baby calf. Thought I was going to lose her, she burped, farted and ran off!


I thought it might be stomach problems, but he was pawing at the air. Eventually he did it at the beginning of each step. Now that he's on antibiotics and meds he stopped doing it completely.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

YouGoatMe said:


> I thought it might be stomach problems, but he was pawing at the air. Eventually he did it at the beginning of each step. Now that he's on antibiotics and meds he stopped doing it completely.


I wonder if it had to do with him having a hard time breathing. Maybe, or that his chest was hurting.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Cole is a little more active today. Much more alert than he has been. He wasn't standing when I went in to the barn this morning, but was sitting up looking around. We've still got a couple more days of antibiotics so I'm praying we continue to see progress! I miss seeing him bounce around everywhere! I did make sure to feel all his joints and I can't feel any swelling.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I am so very happy to report that today Cole seems to be back to his normal self. Walking around like normal and even a little playing with the other babies. Thanks again for all the help, support and advice!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great news!!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

So good to hear!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Oh thankyou.! So glad to hear.he is doing well!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yay, good work.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Well Cole is back to not doing well. He's pooping and peeing fine and has a normal temp, but he just won't get up and go. His back legs seem weak. He can still nurse, but won't stand long and doesn't want to walk. His breathing sounds normal, but looks kind of shaky and every now and then he kind of trembles. I've giving him vitamin b complex gel and also a shot of thiamine and a little nutridrench. After the antibiotics he seemed his normal self for about a week, and now he's declining again. Joints all seem normal and not swollen. I don't know what else to do now....as nothing really seems too wrong other than the fact that he just acts like he has zero energy.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

How old is he again?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Let’s get some selenium in him for sure. Can you get Replamin plus gel? Put a pea sized amount on your finger and dab on his tongue.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

He will be 6 weeks tomorrow. I don't have replamin plus, but the gels I gave him were Selenium and vitamin E with probiotics, and Vitamin B complex. I just came back in from checking on him. He seems a little more alert but definitely wobbly/weak and not wanting to move.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Let’s get an updated rectal temp and FAMACHA check.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Which antibiotic did he receive again?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

He got LA-200. The vet said since we had it on hand it would work fine. He got it for 5 days. As soon as my husband takes his lunch break I will get out there again and re-check temp and famacha.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Temp is 102.6 and FAMACHA between 2 and 3, but closer to a 2.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would dose with 1 raw clove of garlic (blend with water and syringe feed if needed) get a fecal sample run for parasites. Cayenne pepper with raw honey rubbed on his gums for energy.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

At this age, coccidia could be causing him some issues.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is he on coccidia prevention yet? Any stiffness in his legs..ears held stiff ..any ridged-ness?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Trying to rule out tetanus. If you have any suspicion at all..even a tiny bit..give tetanus antitoxin and start him on penicillin.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Is he on coccidia prevention yet? Any stiffness in his legs..ears held stiff ..any ridged-ness?


He's not on a prevention yet. I couldn't feel any stiffness anywhere. I moved all his leg joints and there was full range of motion. What coccidia prevention could I give him?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

As far as tetanus...I wouldn't think this to be the case. He doesn't have the stiffness or drooping. He's alert and looking around, just doesn't want to get up and move. My husband is starting to think it might be an injury or something. Checked temp again, it's 102.4. When we bring him to mom he nurses enthusiastically. He doesn't feel frail or anything and still has a full tummy. This is very puzzling!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Definitely not Corid, he’s too weak for that. Do you have the ability to run a fecal?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Dimethox is. Good prevention treatment for coccidia. Its injectable given orally. Alo under the name of Sulfa drug. Jeffers usually carries it if your local shop doesn't. 

Glad to hear no sign of tetanus!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Definitely not Corid, he's too weak for that. Do you have the ability to run a fecal?


We'd have to have the vet come out. I'm starting to think I might need to learn how to do that on my own. The billing with the vet has become pretty daunting and the return on the results is not quick.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can send fecals out to Meadow Mist Labs. She charges $6 a test. And she is very good. You get results via email.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I hope you figure out what it is with him soon!
We want him bouncing again!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Talked to my friend that also has goats and she suggested white muscle disease.
Cole is not getting any better. He was laying completely flat this morning and we had to hold both him and his mom so he could nurse. I gave him another dose of Selenium and Vitamin E gel. But nothing seems to be helping so I'm starting to lose hope. My husband is going to see if the vet can come out again today.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I’m sorry Cole isn’t picking back up. Do you have injectable vitamin b complex instead of the gel? Gel isn’t effective really for goats.
I can recommend a good vet if you’re near me, I see you’re in Texas too.
I just read the thread and it does sound like WMD if you look at the rear end weakness and wobbly but little Cole was also fighting being a bit early and a host of other things too.
Maybe your vet can give a little BoSe to get his selenium back on track.
Best of luck with him, I hope he hets better soon.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I agree with BoSe.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Be sure temp is good before helping him feed. 
How long was he in antibiotics? And how long off when he started getting weak again? It seems to have progressed from weak back legs to being flat out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Re reading post. I see its been about 2 weeks since antibiotics were done? 
When the vet saw him....did he listen to his heart? Possible heart murmur or other defects maybe an issue. Not enough oxygen can make baby weak. I would have the vet check for that. Rule it out any way. With him being a preemie he may have internal issues unseen.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A vet would be wise.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

When the vet was here last she basically said because he's a premie he's going to be weaker and more sickly than a regular goat. She said his lungs and heart are likely not 100%. I wasn't out there when she visited, but that's what my husband communicated to me. To me it sounded like a write-off, like he's gonna be a sickly one so "best of luck".


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I noticed him staying in the barn three days ago while the rest of the herd was out on the pasture. I took him out to them and watched him for a minute and noticed he was slower and moving slightly odd. Not really a limp, but kind of like he might have injured something. Since then it just keeps getting progressively worse. He's still alert and screams for mom, nurses well when we hold him up, but just won't stand and walk. Earlier today we did get him to stand but then he tried to move and fell to his side. 
We are waiting on a call back from the vet, even though I am not thrilled with their treatment. I'm also working on seeing if a friend has some BoSe I can use. His temp is still good. Last checked was 102.4.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Could he have been kicked or butted by another goat? Some times other mommas can get heavy handed with other babies


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Definitely have vet look at him. Being a preemie can have its challenges sadly


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Tanya said:


> Could he have been kicked or butted by another goat? Some times other mommas can get heavy handed with other babies


Yes it is possible. The other two babies have been very lively and headbutting/jumping around. Cole has been in a safe pen since he's been acting off, but it could have happened prior to that. I'm sure there is also a chance it was one of the older goats, but they have been peacefully together for a couple of weeks now with no incidents.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I had 2 premies last year. They were behind the other kidds till about 2 weeks old. Then I couldnt tell any difference. But the first 3 days of life they basically slept most of the time. They looked to me, like it was harder for them to coordinate their movements. They were slower. I gave them nutridrench. I kept them with their moms for about 5 days. In a pen...only those 2. After 5 days they could stay awake and keep up with mom. So then I put them with moms & newborns. They blended well with that group.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

:hug:
I hope you get good help and advice from your vet, and/or the BoSe helps. Get better, Cole!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

How is Cole this morning?


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Unfortunately Cole declined rapidly yesterday evening. He could no longer even hold his head up, was unable to nurse even when we held him. The vet suspected heart defect. We said goodbye to him and gave him lots of cuddles. This is our first loss and it while it stings a whole lot I'm also grateful he is not suffering anymore. Thank you all for your advice, support and help.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

So sorry to hear that. Hugs!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Why sorry you lost him. ((Hugs))


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

So sorry you lost little Cole. Every loss really hurts. Especially when you both fought so hard. But yes, he is in a better place now. And he has been a teacher to you as well. Patience, perseverance and stamina.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost him.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

So sorry for your loss.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Thank you all. We are very sad and missing him already. I didn't think about it until just now, but do I need to milk out Cole's mama or just keep an eye on her udder? We haven't milked her, she was only feeding Cole, so I don't even know how much milk she has. Her udder does look full, but not really tight or anything.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I am not sure but she could get ill if the milk goes no where. Some one can correct me but maybe you should milk her out.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I'm sorry for your loss! :hug: :rose:


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

I am late to this thread, but I was so sad to hear that you lost him:hug: Sorry for your loss.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

So sorry for your loss. It is always hard to lose one, no matter how long or how many goats you have. 

Regarding her udder; if you plan to milk her, start now, twice a day. Milk out completely. If you are not going to milk her, then milk out just enough to relieve her hardness. Watch and make sure she doesn't get mastitis. When milking, wash and dry her udder (and your hands). Check her temp daily and her udder. If it starts to get hot or hard, you need to get her milked out promptly and start mastitis treatment. Good luck!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry for your loss.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> So sorry for your loss. It is always hard to lose one, no matter how long or how many goats you have.
> 
> Regarding her udder; if you plan to milk her, start now, twice a day. Milk out completely. If you are not going to milk her, then milk out just enough to relieve her hardness. Watch and make sure she doesn't get mastitis. When milking, wash and dry her udder (and your hands). Check her temp daily and her udder. If it starts to get hot or hard, you need to get her milked out promptly and start mastitis treatment. Good luck!


Thank you so much! I will not be milking her but I definitely don't want to see her get sick.


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