# Can you breed these two?



## preppyxcowgirl (Nov 14, 2007)

Can you breed a pygmy buck to a nigerian dwarf doe?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes you can.

Both breeds are small enough to cross breed and not have difficulties with births.

you can't register kids from such cross breedings though which is unfortunate. But that doesn't stop me from doing it.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Please keep in mind that pygmy babies have large bones and large heads at birth and nigerians do not. That can pose problems for a nigerian doe kidding out a large headed kid if it happens to be big boned like the pygmy. The ideal mix between the two is a nigerian buck bred to a pygmy doe. If your doe is large and has kidded before I would think it would be ok.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Yep, Trob1 said what I was going to. Be very careful. It would really help if the Doe threw small babies


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

question, if pygmies tend to have difficult births and we still breed them to pygmy bucks WHY would it be an issue for a nigerian doe who doesnt' have issues to be bred to a pygmy buck? 

I dont' think I am wording that the way I want it to sound ---- 


if pygmy kids are that big headed why breed pygmy bucks to pygmy does since we know that pygmy does have more difficulties then nigerian does.

Obviously it is done for the purbred kids


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## dairygoatdreams (Oct 31, 2007)

*Nigerians and Pygmies*

I'd like to mention that pygmies and nigerians both come from the same imported stock, the west african dwarf. http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goat ... /index.htm
I see no reason there would be a problem unless the doe was smaller than usual, or the buck was significantly larger than usual, but that's a consideration in any breeding in my opinion...


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Pygmy goats have been breed so that the standard changed and that caused birthing problems. They are working on that now and a longer torso is what they are breeding for now. 

Nigerians are now being bred so that they are smaller slimmer and such so I hope birthing problems do not start showing up.

The original South African Dwarf that was improted over has changed greatly and the Pygmy Goat and Nigerian Dwarf Goats were created. They are very different in bone structure and muscle mass. 

Stacey people breed pygmy to pygmy to preserve the breed. And like I said above alot of breeders as well as the NPGA are working on improving the births by now breeding for the longer boddied goat instead of the short legged short boddied pygmy that was once the winning goat in the ring but had a very short life span as almost all had to have sections just to kid.

Anyone can breed a pygmy buck to nigerian doe but I felt they needed to be aware of what could happen with that combo before instead of after. If anyone has ever seen a true to standard pygmy baby at birth and compared it to a true to standard Nigerian at birth they would understand what I am saying. There is a huge difference in bone structure and head size. I had enough kidding problems with my show quality pygmy goats and have talked to alot of breeders at the show ring that said they pull all their pygmy kids and that none of their does kid unassistited to know I wouldnt chance my Nigerian doe breeding her to a pygmy buck.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

that is the kind of information I was looking for, thanks.

That is why I will stick with unregisterd pygmies and if I go with registerd they will be nigerian dwarfs.

Sweet Pea is so big boned and large I doubt she will have issues with kidding though the chances are still there - that is why I am using Bandit who threw smaller kids (Misty, Mia and Flicka had his kids this year).


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## preppyxcowgirl (Nov 14, 2007)

So pygmy does have alot of problems giving birth?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

compared to a lot of breeds yes they tend to.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

that was the reason i sold my pygmys. We only ever had one c secetion but one was too many for me. I only had one doe that never had any problems. She was an unregistered doe. belle always kidded on her own. 
But it seemed like the rest of my does were fine. My alpines kid so much easier and i have far less problems. I usually end up helping maybe one birthing a year of my own goats.
beth


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes they can depending on if they are purebred and true to breed standard. Now granted some breeders are breeding for an easier kidder who has a longer body. If you have a doe who is very short legged and short boddied be there and ready to assit if needed. All of my short bodied does had trouble and needed help when kidding. There just isnt room in there for the babies to line up correctly so they have a tendency to have incorrect positioned kids at kidding time. With pygmy babies having big bones and big heads you really want those babies in the correct position and then with just alittle help pulling on the kid if needed they come out fine but when you add an incorrect position to big bones and big head and the small pelvis of a pygmy doe you get trouble.


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