# Kid in a very strange position at birth



## Tinyhoovesontheheart (Mar 18, 2011)

I have a Nigerian dwarf doe who is 9 years old and I expected quads she was so big so when the time came for her to kid, I was concerned because her labor was getting longer and longer I thought I saw a "bubble" about 2 hours in but she was straining to get it out I finally stepped in. I washed up and proceeded to go in but what i felt surprised me as it was a kid! I help pull it out thinking it might be hind end first. what I pulled out surprised me it wasnt the hind end but the middle of the kids back! it was literally born bent in half, stillborn thankfully , my question is have any of you every had or heard of this happening before? :whatgoat:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes it happend to me a couple years back -- I had to push the kid back in and reposition it and then he came out fine and was alive. I believe he lived because I assisted sooner rather then later. Same thing goes for a kid born to a friend of mine. She called me and I help them by suggesting they push the kid back in and reposition. The kid is alive and well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No.. I haven't had them come out mid...like that....  

I am sorry for the loss...  :hug:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Sorry for your loss. Haven't had a kid in that position. I did have a little doeling who had her neck bent straight back...it tooks us so long to get her positioned correctly that she passed away in the meantime. We were most concerned about the doe because she was incredibly swollen and had been straining for awhile. That was a tough birth, but we luckily got two healthy kids out of the three. 

Welcome to the forum by the way!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I had one last time coming out mostly sideways....like his head was to the side with his front legs curled up and his right side and one back leg was trying to come out. It was so weird. He was stillborn, but he didn't really have eyeballs so he must have been dead before he finished developing.

My rule of thumb is that after the water has broken, the doe needs to make progress. If she goes down and pushes more than ten times (with breaks in-between), and I don't see a bubble, I go in. This can mean the difference between life and death to a kid stuck in the birth canal who is running out of oxygen. It doesn't hurt the doe as long as you are scrubbed up and sanitary (with clipped nails and no jewelry, of course.) At the very least, you can see if there is even a kid coming down the birth canal. You can then gently feel it and determine if it is in a correct position. If not, you can make some adjustments. It is amazing how fast they fly out once you correct the issue, which may be as simple as a leg back.

Remember to take your time and make absolutely sure you know what you are feeling and that the parts you are touching belong to the same kid. If you don't feel two back legs or two front legs coming out with a head (the head is turned back, the spine is coming out, etc.) you NEED to push the kid all the way back into the uterus. This means you will probably be in to your elbow. Don't pull on a kid that is stuck like that. You need to push it back and reposition it properly or you can really mess up the kid of rip apart your doe. The uterus is the only place roomy enough to reposition a poorly stuck kid and don't be afraid to push it all the way back in. It was there to begin with. I've learned a lot lately from a vet I am consulting about the upcoming birth of my first foal and a book she gave me by a very experienced livestock/horse vet who specializes in reproduction. 

A lot of people don't push the kid far enough back in before trying to reposition. This results in a very hard time (or impossibility) of repositioning the kid because of the narrow constriction of the birth canal, usually caused by the pelvis. A lot of people also wait too long before going in. You will have to give your doe antibiotics if you go in, but if she has been pushing for a little bit with no progress it is imperative to check it out. Don't wait an hour or two! Don't wait a half hour! If she is actively pushing with effort and making no progress in 10 minutes or so you really need to go in. At the very least, if the kid if positioned correctly and making slow progress, you can help out. Pull only WITH pushes. Some people say it is best to let nature take it's course, but this vet (who I trust very much. She is a great repo vet for all species...not super with goat diseases, but that isn't her specialty) says that as long as you only pull with contractions and don't pull too hard, you can save a lot of complications, help the doe recover more quickly, and help avoid kids who die because of oxygen deprivation or keep them from being dummy kids. 

Goats and cows are easier than horses though, she says. The babies can survive in the womb for much, much longer if there is little or slow progress. Foals HAVE to come out within about a half hour of the water breaking or they die. Apparently equine birth is "explosive"...and if you have to assist the mare's contractions can snap your arm in half. I am terrified of having to stick my arm up my mare if she has trouble! I don't wanna broken arm! Lol. I can imagine the story as someone asks me about my cast while they are signing it. "So how did you break your arm?" ......"Well, I was up to my shoulder in a horse's ass and..." (Person stops signing cast and backs away.) "Oh don't worry, the ER washed my arm before putting it in a cast."


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## Tinyhoovesontheheart (Mar 18, 2011)

I think her sister was pushing her out on the canal like that she popped out right after I got the other kid out. so pushing her back might not have been a good idea.
:shrug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Even if there is another kid pushing against the malpositioned one, you can still push it back far enough to pull it's head around, I've had to do it a couple times, and thankfully, I ended up with a live kid. I would do what firelight suggested, it does mean life or death if the kid can't be delivered within a certain amount of time...and sometimes even mom doesn't survive. :sigh:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I agree with Liz. Just because another kid is trying to come out at the same time doesn't mean it will hurt to push them back in. The next kid will just have to wait the minute or two extra it takes for you to push them all back in as far as you can get them and re-arrange the other. I would never, ever pull a kid out if it was positioned poorly. The risk of killing the kid and the doe is too great.


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## Haviris (Oct 7, 2007)

I had one trying to come out back first, if she'd have come out that way she'd have been smashed in half. I couldn't tell at the time what part of her I was feeling, finally I felt ribs, I thought she was sideways. I wasn't sure which way she needed to move, but didn't matter I couldn't get her to budge, everytime I tried the doe would start pushing, crushing me and the kdi. So I took her in for a c-section, kid was alive, but died before I got her home, she never came around. You could see she had a bump on her back where she'd be trying to come through. Two live kids, but lost my doe a month later.


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## Tinyhoovesontheheart (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the info this is only my second kidding season and I still have a lot to learn. mother is doing great gave her some antibiotics just in case, as it was a very difficult birth. her two remaining kids are also doing great.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your welcome ..glad things are going well.... :thumb:


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