# HELP! BABIES ON THE GROUND they won't TAKE THE TEAT



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

It's really cold. She got them dry. They are standing. They won't take the teat. HELP!!!


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

I would bottle feed them right away. At your local farm supply store you can get goat milk replacer. is the mama letting them suck?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Are they trying to find the teat? What are their temps?


----------



## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Or u can use whole cows milk. You must have frozen colostrum. If not then...


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Best would be to get them nursing. Second beast would be to milk her and bottle it back to the kids.


----------



## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

They have to be warm to nurse and be able to digest- warm them with a blow dryer/blankets, if they are warm in the mouth they should suckle


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

They were not searching for the teats. The roof of their mouths were really cold, so I let them take turns inside my coat with a heat pack and warmed them up, and they finally started searching for a teat on their own. Mommy was TOO attentive and wanted to wash them instead of letting them get to her udder. I had her wash just one and put the other by her udder, and they both finally ate. I couldn't convince them to take the bottle, I guess the nipple didn't feel soft and warm like they wanted. I've got a syringe to force feed if they aren't getting enough. Mom has plenty supply, I'll milk out some colostrum to freeze for future times.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks for all your timely replies! I was reading them and combining everything as it came, but my hands were too full to answer.

Edited for bad spelling


----------



## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

It’s very important to get them in a warm location.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

First their temp needs to be over 100. Second you need to milk mom and get colostrum in them.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Yep, got them warm enough. Saw both of them successfully suck once before going inside to thaw myself. 

Now, my questions are:
1. When they are dam-raised, how do I know they are getting enough to eat? 
I don't have a scale to weigh them. They were active and never started shivering again as I checked on them throughout the day. Should tummies be bulging, or flat but firm? I figure sunken in and hunched-backed is bad...

2. If they were not suckling enough, how long before they have an issue?

3. I know they are newborns, and newborns are sleepy and wobbly, but they are also goats, and baby goats are bouncy. What should a newborn goat act like for the first 2 weeks? When should their wobbly baby legs get strong and steady? I don't know the line between newborn-wobbly and weak babies. I have only had one kidding before, and kid was stillborn. I have had 1 month old bottle babies, but not newborns before.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You will know within a week or so if they aren't growing like they should. If they suck a lot and cry, but don't seem to get full, she isn't producing enough. Feed her alfalfa and some kind a grain to make sure she has plenty of milk. 

They will be wobbly for a few days or so. You might want to give them some selenium paste just in case though, if you are not sure.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to buy a hanging fish scale and weigh them daily for a week.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

She seems to have plenty supply. I'm only worried that she might not let them suck often enough. She kicks/bites them off sometimes, and let's them suck for a while and then kicks them off other times. Is this normal? They aren't crying a lot. I don't know what rejecting a baby looks like. She's being affectionate with both, but won't let them eat every time they look for the teat , only some times.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.

Now, my questions are:
1. When they are dam-raised, how do I know they are getting enough to eat? Check their tummy's, are they full, when you pick them up and feel the flank/tummy area? If on mama, they can be bulging, you can feel if they have milk in there. You don't want a flat feel.
Are they constantly following mama to get the teat?
If so, they are not getting enough.
Are they yelling out a lot, they are not getting enough.

If they are hunched/shivering and have a empty tummy, they need more milk. 
You can leave them in a barn when it is cold, then allow the mama's to feed them periodically. Make sure you have a little creep feed in there to nibble on, but keep it away from their mama's.
Or a sweater may work if you want to see how they do outside.. 

2. If they were not suckling enough, how long before they have an issue? Not long, especially if it is cold.

3. I know they are newborns, and newborns are sleepy and wobbly, but they are also goats, and baby goats are bouncy. What should a newborn goat act like for the first 2 weeks? When should their wobbly baby legs get strong and steady? I don't know the line between newborn-wobbly and weak babies. I have only had one kidding before, and kid was stillborn. I have had 1 month old bottle babies, but not newborns before. They should, nurse, play, sleep. If they are born with weak or crooked legs they need selenium right away. Within a week they should be corrected.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Toth, any ideas on momma grabbing them with her teeth and pulling them off sometimes, like I described above, right as you posted?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Mama is being mean?

Tie her up or put her on a stand. Tie up one back leg, the side you are working from if you have to.
Milk her out a bit to release pressure and feed her milk with a 12 cc syringe (no needle), to the kids slowly at the back corner of their mouths. 
She may be too tight and it hurts as to why she is doing that. Also check her milk for mastitis.

Check for teat sores.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

She's alternating between super sweet and affectionate and sniffing and licking and nuzzling them to grabbing one of them with her teeth and pulling them off the teat (saw her pull one off while peeking through the blinds at her so I could observe behavior and she wouldn't know I was there and get shy, or search me for food). She is only mean when they try to nurse, but not every time they nurse. About half and half. I tied her up and milked the half that was super tight, then put both babies under her in turn. One with a white star on his head had a flat tummy and wasn't interested in sucking, but did after I put him back under her a couple times. He didn't stay on very long before wandering off. The other with a black poll had a sunken tummy but pooped a bunch of yellow paste as I lifted him over to mom. He stayed on the teat greedily until his tummy was flat (which did not take long, maybe 30 seconds), then wandered off. Mommy didn't fuss the whole time. 

Yellow pasty poop means he's getting milk, right? I feel like if she didn't fuss, and he's pooping and peeing fine, it should be ok, but his tummy was sunken in when I went out and I watched her bite him just 5 minutes before. I want to think I'm over reacting because I've new to this part of goats, but I'm getting conflicting signals from mom and babies...


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Oh, I should add, no teat sores. Milk looked normal, no clumps, strings, or blood. No heat in her udder.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes, yellow means they're getting milk. 

I would help the kids nurse every few hours, and keep a very close eye on mom.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Can do.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

She was too tight and sore as to why she was biting at the kids. When mama's do that or shove them away, can mean she is in pain and after a while of abuse, the kid will just give up and starve. Which is what it sounded like, starting. 
If she doesn't have enough milk, you may need to supplement feed her babies, but still allow them to 
nurse. 

Glad the kids are full now. 
As suggested, go out every couple of hours to ensure they nurse and mama is OK and not tight. Sneak up on her and see if she is still nipping at them.

What are you feeding mama?


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Mama is getting free choice alfalfa and minerals. I am going to start adding some grain today after I get to the feed store. I'll make sure to add the grain gradually so it doesn't upset her rumen.

She's had plenty of supply this whole time. I'm only worried about the babies getting the milk into their tummies.

Today, she was incredibly eager to feed the kids - lifting her leg to make it easy for them to find the teat.  She got so much better after I milked out the painfully full half of her udder yesterday. I've been too busy taking care of the rest of the animals to FEEL if her udder is tight today, but it is not nearly as lopsided as yesterday, so I think they found the other half now. I'll check on that as soon as my human babies go down for a nap. I'll keep checking on her and babies to make sure nothing changes for the worst.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I knew she was sore, good job, things sounds good, just keep an eye on her. 

Yes, make sure they are nursing on both sides, if not, grab one kid and teach, the same kid all the time to claim that teat. Every time you see them nursing put that same kid on that teat, especially if they are nursing from only the 1 side. They do pick up on it after doing this for a little while.


----------



## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

We had surprise twins Xmas morning & I got to try out a tip I just learned--that when you are trying to teach them to nurse & they don't seem to "get it", scratch the baby just in front of their tail. It worked like a miracle! Also it helps to squeeze out a little milk & rub it on the teat & the kid's lips so they realize there is food to be had. Good luck with your babies!


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks so much, everyone!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Tickle the tailhead does help.

This is what I do for each kid born.
First thing is, make sure they have the suck reflex. I take a new 12 cc syringe(no needle) and fill it up with colostrum, right from mama's teat. 
Then, I will insert my index finger into the kids mouth, mimicking mama's teat, at the same time feeding a little bit of colostrum/milk slowly, at the back corner of the kids mouth. I will move my finger in and out of the mouth just slightly, still leaving my finger in the mouth. After a short while, normal kids will suck almost immediately. 
Selenium deficient ones take more time. I usually have to feed them a few times and a couple of hours later, in order to get suck reflex. I will try those selenium kids on mama as well just after birth in case and some of them do take the teat with a fight. LOL

As soon as I get that sucking, I will put them on mama after I give them 2 to 3 syringe fulls of colostrum to ensure they get some. 

I take the kid, open the screaming kids mouth, LOL and squirt a little bit of mama's milk in the kids mouth, let go, tickle the tailhead, repeat. 
After a few times of doing it, the kid latches on.


----------

