# Meat/Market Wether/Breeding Goat Questions



## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok, so I'm well versed with my beloved Nigerians 

But every year I go out and spend $$$$ on a nice pair of Boer market wethers for my daughter. Some years we have been short on funds and only purchased one... thankfully nothing bad happened and he blossomed healthy and happy (until auction day of course) :sigh:

... Anyway... our wonderful local breeder who breeds outstanding market wethers notified us that the demand is way up and the wether prices are too. I have more kids getting started in 4H and market goats next year & I'm not sure I can afford to put a months pay into getting my kids market wethers.... 
:think: so this has our large 4H family thinking about purchasing a select few really nice, top quality, bred doe's to show in the 2013 fair & produce nice market wethers for us. We really like the wethers we've purchased in the past, but this breeder doesn't test for disease, which is absolutely a MUST for us. So we are shopping around. We also have a semen tank, so utilizing AI would be very convenient for breeding later on.
My questions are:
I research ADGA genetics & top breeders websites, plus show results religiously, practically 24/7, and I am extremely determined to have only the best of the best when it comes to our Dairy Goats.... What is considered some of the 'best of the best' when it comes to Boer Goats? Are there particular animals that REALLY stand out? Particular herd-names that stand out? I prefer the non-percentage one's, just personal preference & look, but could/would a percentage animal exceed a non-percentage? And which Association should I try to go with? Here in the NW USA, we don't have AGS for dairy goats, so everything is ADGA... is there something similar I should know about for the Boer Goat Associations? Is there buck semen out there that makes a knowledgeable Boer Goat breeder go "WOW, I want that!". Oh, and I will have Bio-Genics here in December so something from their semen stock would be fabulous, IF it's truly good genetics.

ANY other info, advice, tips, tricks, ANYTHING would be VERY VERY appreciated!!
Thank you so much in advance! I know there are some very knowledgable meat goat producers on TGS, so I'm hopeful that you'all will set me straight on the right path :thankU:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Is the no horns rule still in effect with 4h meat wethers?

Our kid crop should be here Jan & Feb. Huge meaty kids with excellent growth rate.
One year FFA took 5 for thier project. They creamed the show. One didnt make weight.
I had told them to NOT change feed but one know it all did anyway.


pm'd you.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I hope you find what your looking for  Just remember though, that sometimes the nicest does don't produce the nicest kids for showing. I've heard a lot of people tell me that their 'most unnattractive' does have been their best producers. One woman has a doe with a boer build and a dairy head/ears, and she has produced a grand champion wether pretty much every year, but I can't remember what breed this doe is crossed with.

I don't know anything about goat pedigrees <ask me about thoroughbreds...lol>
But I do know that so far I am loving the AK-47 lines. Our buck is a grandson of AK-47, and our buck's sire is HUGE and IMO the most perfect boer buck I've ever laid eyes on so far  They are located in Texas, and if you are going to AI, If it were me I'd look into semen. 
2bbt Winchester is our buck's sire, I know he's on their website, even though they sold him to a young man here in KY, but they bought back some rights to him.
http://www.2bitboer.com/

The young man who owns Winchester was placing in the top of his classes with his market goats, does/percentage does, and bucks - all Winchesters kids. It will be interesting to see how they all place in the state fair in a few days. Winchester was Reserve Grand Champion buck at NAILE last November.
so it's been really exciting to try and follow this buck's accomplishments. We had no idea that the young man owned him until we were chatting at a show in June. 
Of course our buck isn't in show quality shape anymore, he's our backyard brat right now lol 
He's produced some wonderful kids for us though, and we are very blessed to have gotten him. We don't want big, expensive, competitive goats, we just aim for the kids to have some decent goats to show each year for the fun of it.
Well our lil mutt bred does produced kids that were finishing in the top of their classes for the most part, and usually right behind Winchester's kids. So we are very pleased.

Sorry to go on and on about that lol  But wanted to mention those bucks to you.

I do think it's better for kids who are capable to raise their own animals, that away they can start with them from day 1, and when it's all over, they can praise themselves for raising that goat from birth  My kids are so very proud of their goats for finishing well in some very competitive shows considering they came from our 'mutt bred' does. We've very pleased with how our buck has complimented these does, HUGE upgrade from our last buck


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks ladies!!
This is exactly the kind of insight I'm looking for 
And yes, I've heard the saying (and seen it full hand in the Boer goats with my friends Boer herd) that the ugly doe usually produces the best market wethers. She's told us that many times  It always baffles me, but yet I know full well that it's a true statement! I'm especially baffled by the idea that a percentage market wether can beat out a fullblood market wether???? I just cant wrap my head around that.... yet I see it happen. It's all a new learning experience for me . And I'm very eager to get the kids started on this .


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

From a dairy goat background... I am baffled at this whole multiple teats thing with the boer goats... :scratch: 
So I've already had breeders telling me that the doe's have nubs and stubs and all sorts of odd-sounding things, but they've all told me 'she's still correct' - ???? What exactly are they truly SUPPOSED to have? Two or four or ??? And what about these little 'nubs' - are these ok for a top quality show doe?

Also I'm told 'her pigment' is correct? What is this? How do I figure this out? Are they talking about the underside of the tail, the mouth, or ??? What would be considered 'incorrect'? :scratch: 

Thanks again for the help! :thumb:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Meat goats are judged alot different than dairy. 
While udders & teat structure are crucial to dairy, udders are not judged in meat goats. 
2:2 or 1:1 teats are acceptable. Spurs or splits on a teat are fine to a certain point. American Boer Goat Association has a chart of acceptable teats.
Pigmentation mostly has to do with underside of the tail. 
Pigment also has to do with amount on head & ears.This info is also available there.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

My personal favorite breeders for boer goats are Able Acres Boer Goats, BAB Boer goats, 2M Boer Goats, Circle Star Boer Goats, Crossroads Boers, and Capriole. I know most of these breeders aren't close to home for you, but Google them. They have AWESOME stock! Bailey Bergherm of BAB Boer Goats is actually a 10 year 4-h member and won Grand Champion Market wether in Vigo County Fair 2011. When looking for a Boer doe, you want lots of width, depth, and length. Specifically length of body, depth of twist, width in the chest floor, and length from hooks to pins. Take a look at these pictures: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33853
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33573


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Yep, here's the ABGA teat chart, I always refer to this chart thanks to Pam telling me about it a while back 
http://www.abga.org/teat-structure.php

Pigment is the 'color' you want your doe to have dark skin on the backside of her tail, not pink/light colored skin.
Example...fullblood doe we used to have









Kiko/cross doe we have...









Hope that helps.


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

Got to the Cascade Boer Goat Assoc. website to see what is here in the NW. There are some excellent goats here.


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## brbn (Nov 30, 2011)

What state are you in? Jack mauldin has a great breeders list on his website. He has it divided out by states. The wether breeds i like are kelly meat goats, mock livestock, fleming livestock, harbor livestock, show barn genetics. Alot of wether producing breeders dont test for things. Also alot of them are not registered. There is no need if they are just for wethers. Our percentages show better than our 100%kids boers. They have more lenth, better rib shape, no big bellies, leaner in there make, and carrry hard defined muscle. Our boers look a little more soft to the touch and are more wastey in the middle. And yes our most ugly goat a snubian boer cross has given us a grand champion 5 out of the 6 years she has had babies. Her name is dd she is on our doe page on our website.
anna
www.freewebs.com/brbn


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I am also like most people on here. I am not 100% into full blood boers. I have always done better with our percentages whether they were does or wethers. But at our fair they are not split up by percentages or full bloods. If they are at your fair then go for the full bloods if you can get them. Also I know as a dairy person the 2x2 teats are crazy for you to think about but as long as they are well spaced and all 4 functioning it is awesome for does with triplets and quads. I am not a fan of any spurs or split teats, I have had them but never yet bred a doe with them so I don't know how the kids would do. Whitehouse boers in Washington have some great goats to look at but I dont really know any breeders from Oregon. I also like Able acres here in Indiana. Ward's Cat in the Hat is an awesome buck he was national champion a few years back. Depending on looks EGGS are an awesome classic old style boer that had a lot of power behind them but they were not bred to be tubular like more of the show goats these days. I wanted to breed my EGGS doe Faith to a really long tubular buck and see what kind of kids I got but ended up selling out before I got the chance. As far as registries I would probably got with ABGA because they have the most shows atleast in my area and that is the registry most people use here. Well I hope this helps you a little.


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

thank you all SO much!
I'm thinking we'll purchase a few nice bred doe's from some show-proven parents and go (up) from there. It's kinda scary...but I'm getting excited about it now!
Did look at some that were from Cat In The Hat genetics that were nice, the others are Canon and V808 grandkids, and look nice too. ??


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Not a problem! Cat in the Hat is one of the nicest lines you can get into! He has produced some show winning does and he himself is a show winner. Can't wait till you get them! We need pics when you do!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I personally think percentage show wethers do better.... at least for me. I had a full blood last year and he was the hardest keeper, could have just been that one goat. But since then I've had percentage and I think they grow better and stay on feed better when its hot (which is a huge problem here in North Carolina). I have alot of lines I like but for wethers you can't wrong with 900 or Sumo. I'm in love with Cat In The Hat.... I want a doe kid off him some kind of bad. I haven't seen where anyones using his line for wethers... sometimes the show doe/buck lines are harder to feed which is bad for wethers. I'm a huge fan of RRD and Ruger.... they give them that big boned look. 

But really with wethers, it comes down to muscle, feed ability, structure and show pretty (in that order IMO). At the end of the day its a terminal project and lines and pedigrees don't really matter since they can't breed.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I have to second the percentage goats...although we've not raised wethers for showing, I noticed a lot of the top placing wethers did not look like fullbloods.
I think when buying a wether producing dam, you should really shop around if you want top of the line wethers, problem is if it's anything like the breeders around here, they don't want to sell their best wether producing does because that's where they make their real profit.
So just be careful and do your homework on the does, see what they've produced, etc. Especially if your planning to sink a lot of $$ into them.
Personally if it were me, I'd start somewhat simple with a couple of nice does and see what buck goes well with them. 
I'm sure you'll find some really nice does 

Our buck is out of a rising star named Winchester by AK-47 and he's by Ruger. I don't know anything about pedigrees really, still learning  But I dragged out his registration paper again today, and his dam is by Bo Jangle, and I know Bo Jangle is really popular in our area, I am always hearing his name and seeing it as well.


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