# Rescuing? (this is sort of venting) (sorry)



## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Hi all,
Si have a chance to possibly resurrect a few goats.....by the looks of the pictures they need help, AND they person says they are bred:ahh: OK, so i was wondering has anybody ever been in this situation? I want to help the goats but i am afraid (if the pictures are what they seem) that IF i buy them they may have troubles kidding, and i dont really want to deal with that, but then again i feel like i can help!:imsorry: This is sort of venting but ! @mariarose @MellonFriend @NigerianDwarfOwner707 @Goats Rock @goathiker @Trollmor @Nigerian dwarf goat @NigerianNewbie @IHEARTGOATS @toth boer goats @littlegoatgirl @Sfgwife @GoofyGoat @happybleats @Amber89 @DaGoatandPugLady @spidy1 @HoosierShadow @whitejerabias @Chelsey @SandyNubians @Dwarf Dad @Jessica84 @bisonviewfarm 
Thanks,
Spades


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

What do they look like? What kind of care have they had at all?


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> What do they look like?


They look super skinny.


Sfgwife said:


> What kind of care have they had at all?


Im not sure, we have not gone and physically looked at them, just online.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> What kind of care have they had at all?


They said on there post that they have been up to date with shots.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

@SalteyLove


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Well you would need more information but generally an underweight goat has an easier time with kidding than a fat goat but a harder time with milk production. Be prepared to supplement kids if they are due to kid before you have time to improve nutrition.

The real concern would be diseases, and most primarily Johnes. (But others are of concern of course too). Do you have a separate place to keep them comfortably until you can get blood tests done. Be sure it's a sacrificial place in case they test Johnes positive and the fecal matter has contaminated your pens. And if any test CAE positive you would have to decide how to raise potential kids.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Do you have a separate place to keep them comfortably until you can get blood tests done.


Yes, i will be moving my adult does to a pasture soon! So then If i bought these they could have that pen! I also have another pen in case it is needed.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Well you would need more information but generally an underweight goat has an easier time with kidding than a fat goat but a harder time with milk production


SO, if they just got bred, i could still have time to get a little condition on them? Any tips or tricks?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

My advice would just be blood samples, fecal analysis, and mineral supplements (especially selenium if that is needed in your area) right away as you get them off the trailer then great quality hay to start. If they are more than 100 days bred, start introducing some alfalfa slowly. (pellets or hay)


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> quality hay


I have alfalfa/grass mix, is that quality?


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> My advice would just be blood samples, fecal analysis, and mineral supplements (especially selenium if that is needed in your area) right away as you get them off the trailer then great quality hay to start. If they are more than 100 days bred, start introducing some alfalfa slowly. (pellets or hay)


Also, we have hard water..do you recommend putting apple cider vinegar in it? if so how much?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Spades said:


> I have alfalfa/grass mix, is that quality?


Is it nice hay with green color and not big stalks? Smells good? The alfalfa grass mix is a good choice for goats.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Spades said:


> Also, we have hard water..do you recommend putting apple cider vinegar in it? if so how much?


I don't use apple cider vinegar (ACV) , someone else will have to chime in on that


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with saltey I have bought some pretty skinny minis before that ended up being bred and they did just fine......but not deathly skinny so hopefully they are not like that. But I would feel much better about the situation knowing they are just now bred (hopefully) that gives you basically 4 months or upping their feed amount and quality and putting conditions on them. Also to get them up on minerals. 
I would defiantly be very cautious of diseases though. Not just about the 3 big ones but also any creepy nasty things like pneumonia or anything else. I would make sure you have a good pen for them all away from your goats and keep them there for at least 30 days. This is always a good practice to do, but I would defiantly do so with these girls until they seem nice and healthy.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Is it nice hay with green color and not big stalks? Smells good?


I can choose a little mores grass in the bales, because i use small squares and they often vary!


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> I agree with saltey I have bought some pretty skinny minis before that ended up being bred and they did just fine......but not deathly skinny so hopefully they are not like that. But I would feel much better about the situation knowing they are just now bred (hopefully) that gives you basically 4 months or upping their feed amount and quality and putting conditions on them. Also to get them up on minerals.
> I would defiantly be very cautious of diseases though. Not just about the 3 big ones but also any creepy nasty things like pneumonia or anything else. I would make sure you have a good pen for them all away from your goats and keep them there for at least 30 days. This is always a good practice to do, but I would defiantly do so with these girls until they seem nice and healthy.


OK, Thank you!!! I will have a pen ready for just them if i decide to buy them! And i already have PWR, and selenium!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Good advice from the above.
Thank you for including me, although I am not that knowledgeable. Good luck with the new, needy goats if you get them.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

The only thing I can suggest is to get your hands on them and see if they're tame enough to treat if you need to. Bringing home a rescue can be a mixed bag of problems. Besides disease if you have to devote all your time to their care can you still devote enough quality time to your current herd. When we rescued Hagrid from a fence in the middle of nowhere he was half starved and parasite ridden he got better and is a love bug. He needed a lot of time and attention so just make sure you can devote what's needed. Good luck if you get them.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> The only thing I can suggest is to get your hands on them and see if they're tame enough to treat if you need to. Bringing home a rescue can be a mixed bag of problems. Besides disease if you have to devote all your time to their care can you still devote enough quality time to your current herd. When we rescued Hagrid from a fence in the middle of nowhere he was half starved and parasite ridden he got better and is a love bug. He needed a lot of time and attention so just make sure you can devote what's needed. Good luck if you get them.


:hi: And thank you for the advice! I only have a few goats right now! And i now that they may need TLC and a lot of time...but i LOVE goats! And i really think i can do it!!! Hopefully!!!!!!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I wish you the best, the TLC you'll give May just be what these poor things need! Good luck!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

For the ACV, hmm, you can, but I always prefer a filter such as the Horse Hydrator.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Great advice given. This is always scary ground because we love goats and want to help them all but taking in consideration the goats you currently own. You don't want to expose them to disease. The area you prepare for them needs to be expendable as Salty said. Meaning IF they have a disease such as Johnes then you will loose that pen for many many years over risk of exposing your herd to Johnes. What I have done when I was interested in an untested goat is ask if I can test at my expense before I take the goat. Most people don't mind me doing this. Some do. At any rate..getting hands on them will give you the best idea of condition. Skinny goat is not necessarily a sick goat. May just need proper groceries and minerals. 

Best wishes


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think you've gotten some wonderful advice above. So I won't repeat.

Be cautious about trying to put weight on quickly. What you want is healthy muscle, and a little bit of fat. But quick weight gain, in goats as in humans, is almost all fat. Focus more on quality hay than on high calorie supplements, at least until you discover more about what is wrong.

Consider getting a large tube of Replamin Gel Plus and give them all a loader dose of 5 cc for 5-7 days (depending on their condition)

Any chance of some pictures for us to see more for ourselves?


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

mariarose said:


> ny chance of some pictures for us to see more for ourselves


If i get them i will post pictures!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Spades said:


> If i get them i will post pictures!!


I was more wondering, since you found them online, you could give us the URL, so we can weigh in before you rescue them.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

https://dubuque.craigslist.org/grd/d/woodman-boer-doe-goats-breed-to-kiko/6955642017.html


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Spades said:


> https://dubuque.craigslist.org/grd/d/woodman-boer-doe-goats-breed-to-kiko/6955642017.html


Honestly, they don't look that bad to me. Lacking minerals and some good nutrition, but they are only mildly ribby. Obviously their hip bones are protruding but that doesn't concern me too much.

I'd go for them, they look like nice animals once you get them in shape.

Definitely not to skinny to not be able to birth, that's for sure - they don't look sickly skinny.

I'd still try and get them tested before they come to you if at all possible.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, they're skinny alright. Uniformly skinny. That makes me think this is much more likely to be a groceries problem than it is Johnes. You'd expect to see different levels of emaciation if this was Johnes.

I disagree with them only being mildly ribby. They are gaunt. But I do think this is likely to be groceries.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Yes, they're skinny alright. Uniformly skinny. That makes me think this is much more likely to be a groceries problem than it is Johnes. You'd expect to see different levels of emaciation if this was Johnes.
> 
> I disagree with them only being mildly ribby. They are gaunt. But I do think this is likely to be groceries.


Maybe I just can't see the photos as well because I'm on my phone. But I've seen way ribbier goats than those. The word mildly was a poor choice but I wouldn't say it's the worst I've seen or super severe that cannot be fixed with proper nutrition. Some looked ribbier than others.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

They look like they get worse the farther through the pictures you get! They remind me of a herd I’ve been watching on a road near where I live. They’re in a small lot with lots of blackberries, I think they’re for brush control, but they’ve been slowly getting thinner and thinner. I’ve been watching for a buck and hoping they don’t put one out there in the condition the goats are in. That seems a steep price for goats in such poor health though. Are they not willing to go down at all? You’re gonna be spending a lot to bring them back up to a healthy weight, especially if you get them all! How many are there?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh not as bad as I was expecting! Except for the one standing on the wood and the one with the speckled ears they look very bright eyed. I’m sure minerals, groceries and probably a worming after a fecal will do them a world of good. BUT I still 100% stand by my suggestion on keeping isolated till a minimum of 30 days and testing (if you do test) 
Chelsey does bring up a good point on the asking price and the fact that you will also have to put a lot into them. But that is something you need to think about and decide if it’s worth it


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Chelsey said:


> How many are there?


Im not real sure!


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Thank you guys!!!!!!!!!! Really hope my parents will let me at least look at them! I will see once if he will go down in his price also!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Is it $300 per goat? That is way too expensive in my opinion. (It was hard to see on my screen, crack in the way)


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> Is it $300 per goat?


$300 or $250.....


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> That is way too expensive in my opinion.


Mine to! I would only but them if he would go quite a ways down!


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Yes, they're skinny alright. Uniformly skinny. That makes me think this is much more likely to be a groceries problem than it is Johnes. You'd expect to see different levels of emaciation if this was Johnes.
> 
> I disagree with them only being mildly ribby. They are gaunt. But I do think this is likely to be groceries.


BTW What would be a fair price for them since you have seen them? @NigerianDwarfOwner707 @Goats Rock @mariarose @Chelsey @Jessica84


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

For their condition, I would be on the modest side and offer $175 per doe. Or give an amount for all of them. Since I only have milking goats, maybe I am way off base. If so, I apologize. I'm not trying to insult the boers.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

Oh man, I’m gonna throw out a guess. I’m not in the market for meat goats, just dairy (and minis at that), plus I wouldn’t consider them because they’re not healthy, AND I live in Northern California where everyone wants Boer goats so they can be more expensive. Also, I’m really nice and don’t barter much. If I were trying to be fair to the seller, I would consider the (supposed) facts that they’re pregnant and UTD on shots, but skinny. I wouldn’t spend more than $200 on each. If I were being realistic about my budget, needs, and future spending, I wouldn’t do more than $100. Paperwork would having me considering more: registrations, vet records, personal farm records, breeding records of any kind. Them being ‘bred’ could be a selling point. Not being confirmed by a vet is concerning, especially if you never see a buck when you see them in person. Just my thoughts on the matter. It’s probably more than you were wanting, sorry.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well just as meat goats I would say they are $125, $150 TOPS! Now that’s pretty much what they would get if they took them to the sale. Then they pay commission, yardage and then gas to get them there. I do think it is worth asking more because a buyer is getting history on them. They can REALLY check them out, see that they live in a nice clean area not picking up anything from the sale blah blah blah. But a fair price I think would be $175 and no way more then $200. But again this is YOUR money and YOUR choice and those numbers are just my opinion on what a fair price would be for them. Before you decide I would look on CL and see if anyone has boers in better condition and see what the price range is on them. And if you really want THESE girls don’t insult the person. Pretty much just ask if they will take less because your wanting to take more then one, or whatever. I will take any of my kids straight to the sale then lower it a dollar for someone that says my goats are not worth my asking price. Now granted mine have more conditioning on them but it still just really rubs me the wrong way.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Where I am, they'd bring $50.00 to $100.00 in that condition


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think the problem may be, that the person simply doesn't know how gaunt the goats are, or doesn't know that the buyers will expect a discount for subpar weight, because "There's nothing wrong with the goats that some food won't fix."

If the quality is what you want, then be willing to offer a fair price for them, taking into consideration you'll need to put some money into them to support a pregnancy. I live in an incredibly stingy area, so don't go by my prices.

Here, I've got the opposite problem, that looking good isn't worth more than not looking good, because it's just food (when really it is much more, feed, worming, breeding.... and of course, MINERALS) And people know how cheaply goats can go at auction, so they don't want to pay more than auction prices. In that case, I'd rather sell at auction! Support my local auction house and keep them going if that is all I'll get anyway.

I love/hate the Dave Ramsey devotees, who act like I'll cut my prices because they have cash. I'm like, "Of course you have cash. How else did you expect to buy my animals?" That throws them. They never thought of that....


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That is very true Mariarose! I know when I went back and looked at my goats from years ago, that at the time I thought looked good, and I was like whoa! They looked like crap!


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I think the problem may be, that the person simply doesn't know how gaunt the goats are, or doesn't know that the buyers will expect a discount for subpar weight, because "There's nothing wrong with the goats that some food won't fix."


That could be very true! I doubt they see this as a rescue mission. They very well may not want to budge on their price. 5 does at $300 would bring a tidy sum! I could see not wanting to lose that to someone who just insulted me and my livestock raising capabilities. You should try to be very careful with your words 
@Spades!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Spades said:


> $300 or $250.....


Per goat??? Come on, it must be for the whole flock -?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> For their condition, I would be on the modest side and offer $175 per doe. Or give an amount for all of them. Since I only have milking goats, maybe I am way off base. If so, I apologize. I'm not trying to insult the boers.


Minus the cost for the test(s) suggested above?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No, if she wants them tested, she'll have to pay for that. They are not being sold as tested.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

@mariarose Of course, I did not think of that.

@Spades Goat Maths, Goat Maths, Goat Maths .... :ahh:


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

So, (IF) i go look at them how do i put it kindly? Because i don not want to insult his animals!


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Spades said:


> So, (IF) i go look at them how do i put it kindly? Because i don not want to insult his animals!


Point out the reasons that make them devalue.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> @Spades Goat Maths, Goat Maths, Goat Maths .... :ahh:


:heehee:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd ask questions, that would introduce the idea into the seller's head that others may not see his/her goats in the same way. Ask about their feed, ask how much hay they get and ask to see it, to evaluate what quality it is (poor quality hay won't put weight on, no matter how much they eat). Ask if they've been wormy. Indicate you are trying to determine the reason why they are underweight because there are diseases that cause that and you don't mind underweight goats because of food, but you don't want to introduce disease into the herd.

In otherwords, act like the person knows they are underweight and can tell you why, but without saying, See here. Why are your goats so skinny? What's wrong with them?

And who knows, maybe they DO know and can give you a perfectly reasonable explanation, hay was ruined, no money to buy more, they hoped to get this under control before now but they are forced to sell...

I think it is a situation where they want to get the most money for the least effort, but I could be wrong. Give them a hint that it is obvious something is amiss.

I'd ask to see the hay and act like it's just a fact that they are skinny, That sort of thing. Be matter of fact about it, rather than accusatory.

If you make an offer that you deem reasonable, and they say "No." Then just say, "Thank you very much for your time. Here's my number if you decide otherwise," and leave.

They may hear from people who won't be so polite and decide that they may be on the wrong track after all, and get in touch with you.

But the last thing you really want to do is reward people who don't feed their animals with a lot of money. If you are going to spend money for animals, reward the ones who feed and keep them well.

And when these people learn better (partly through your politeness) they could become very good owners.

Or they won't. But you would have tried.

That's my advice, anyway.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I'd ask questions, that would introduce the idea into the seller's head that others may not see his/her goats in the same way. Ask about their feed, ask how much hay they get and ask to see it, to evaluate what quality it is (poor quality hay won't put weight on, no matter how much they eat). Ask if they've been wormy. Indicate you are trying to determine the reason why they are underweight because there are diseases that cause that and you don't mind underweight goats because of food, but you don't want to introduce disease into the herd.
> 
> In otherwords, act like the person knows they are underweight and can tell you why, but without saying, See here. Why are your goats so skinny? What's wrong with them?
> 
> ...


:wow:Thanks a lot:ty::ty:


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## Ron at BFAD (May 2, 2018)

I have been raising goats since i was 18, now 68. One of the things my father told me was if you think an animal will have problems with labor feed them grain rye as soon as you can. Two years ago my buck had jumped the fence and bred a doe that was to young, didn't have rye so fed her rye flour, with much prayer and rye flour she kidded. It lived. I also had raspberry leaves on hand and lard to help if needed, wasn't needed.


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## Ron at BFAD (May 2, 2018)

Spades said:


> SO, if they just got bred, i could still have time to get a little condition on them? Any tips or tricks?


See my imput good feed check for diseases and start them on rye.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

And @mariarose put it on the spot, like so many other times! 

@Ron at BFAD, I think I have not seen you before! Welcome to our group!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Please don't tease about God on a mostly Christian website. It's not respectful. 

These look like brush goats, plain and simple, I doubt he will have any hay to show or any supplement of any kind. I think he's believed the idea that goats can live on brush. Funny that, even back in the 70's my dad gave a flake of weedy hay and half a coffee can of alfalfa pellets to each brush doe.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Please don't tease about God on a mostly Christian website. It's not respectful.


Okay, I deleted that part.


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Whoa- $250-$300 PER GOAT??? Where I live that will buy you a high quality ADGA registered doe. When I saw the ad I assumed it was for the whole flock.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

goathiker said:


> Please don't tease about God on a mostly Christian website. It's not respectful.


Me? I apologize, I'll delete my post. I just couldn't help it......


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## Ron at BFAD (May 2, 2018)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Good advice from the above.
> Thank you for including me, although I am not that knowledgeable. Good luck with the new, needy goats if you get them.


You might want to give them each a shot before you transport them we use to use combiotic. Not sure what you folks use now a day. Lot of good advice before me. On the raw ACV with mother anything with probiotics in it is good for them. The hard water isn't the real problem, its got nutrients in it thats what is making it hard, just 1 tablespoon of ACV per gallon of water. You can increase this gradually but that should be pretty good. Give them rye grain or flour for the whole time you have them. This will help them with kidding ease. Might even give them chicken scratch which is high in corn and other whole grains. An inexpensive grain is cotton seed, high in oil. Also suppliment for 30 days alfalfa pellets along with the hay equal parts of both, your trying to push nutrients as well keep their systems moving. And contrary to popular belief goats need more nutrients than cows because of their smaller digestive systems. As you do this, watch their stools if they stick together or become runny back off a little until their raisins again. For a while it will be a tight rope walk, also it wouldn't be a bad idea to give them a treatment of corid for coccidiosis, they will be stressed. Good luck and will say a prayer for wisdom for you. He knows all about them.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Ron at BFAD said:


> Might even give them chicken scratch which is high in corn and other whole grains


Corn is terrible for goats.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

healthyishappy said:


> Corn is terrible for goats.


But where this person is it might work for them. Yes in the US where things are readily available to us it is so much easier. And other places have to figure out what works sometimes even though it is hard for us to understand. . We would do beet pulp, calf manna or even boss for a bit of fatty things... but corn may be all they have.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, and don't forget to check for traces of diarrhea! A goat with diarrhea can not be as expensive as one with a normal pop. Eyelid also. This might open the eyes of the seller that you are serious and have some knowledge! 


Sfgwife said:


> But where this person is it might work for them. Yes in the US where things are readily available to us it is so much easier. And other places have to figure out what works sometimes even though it is hard for us to understand. . We would do beet pulp, calf manna or even boss for a bit of fatty things... but corn may be all they have.


Spades lives in Wisconsin.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Yes, and don't forget to check for traces of diarrhea! A goat with diarrhea can not be as expensive as one with a normal pop. Eyelid also. This might open the eyes of the seller that you are serious and have some knowledge! Spades lives in Wisconsin.


Spades does. But ron at bfad gave the rye and corn advice..... they have no place listed in their info.


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