# what is this????



## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Hello friends... Its been a little while! Life has gotten in the way of my TGS addiction. What brings me her today?? I found this as it was detatching from primrose.... It concerns me because she isn't due until 12/21. Is is acting a little off.. A little stargazing. She also looks posty to me. Bag is full but not strutted. She still has strong ligaments. Someone tell me this is normal and she can still go to her due date! I've lost 5 babies in 2 days..


*edited for more info


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

The discharge isn't as dark as it looks either. It is an amber colored...kind of "orangy-brown" I think the camera flash messed with the coloring.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That isn't a discharge color you want to see. Lost 5 babies as in other abortions? I would strongly suggest getting a fetus tested to find out what is going on. Sorry for your losses.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

The first delivery was a couple of months early...caused by being hit. The second one was triplets first baby came out one back foot and one front. It was a horrible delivery. He was not alive when he was born. Little doeling was born alive but didn't make it. Then the last one I had to go way in for...she just pushed too long. They were sooo tiny, but she was at day 145. 
This doe has been right on track...and like I said the discharge isn't that dark. It looks exactly like streaming in color (amber). And I can still feel babies moving.... :scratch:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree....thats alot of losses...if from abortion then you may have an abortion storm going on...you can test the aborted fetus or moms blood right after the abortion to see whats going on...How scary. Im very sorry...

In the mean time...get moms temp..is she eating and drinking fine? chewing a cud...you said she is a bit stargazy....I would give her Thiamin or B complex with at least 100 MG thiamine in it...


OK edit: saw you new post after I hit go....so unrealted deaths is actually good...I know that sounds odd, but you know what I mean...Give the thiamin or B complex...she if it helps with the star gazing, if not I owuld get her on Penicillin for listeriosis...as well as get that temp and such


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the others and am very sorry for your losses. 

The stuff: does it and her vulva area smell really bad(stink)? If she does, she may have a bad infection going on there. Do the sniff test.

The Doe in the pic looks like she is in labor or very ill. 

What is her temp?

She is dropped in the tailhead and sunken in, as if she were kidding and does look a little posty. 

If you know a knowledgeable goat vet, you may want his/her insight on her.


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

I agree with Toth Boers...your doe doesn't look good at all. I would try to get someone to look at her very soon. Anything on her temp yet?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry that does not look good, Amber or not.
This doe is carrying very low. If you have to go fishing you are going to have to go very low.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

She went in labor... Pulled for 2 hours... Pulled ones leg off....they weighed about 10 lbs apiece. It was just too much for her... Solid red bucking. Traditional doeling... Neither survived.......


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Awww...I'm so sorry.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

How is the mama?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh no that's awful.:sigh: How is she doing?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry Jen  I would get one tested, find out what is going on and why the does are losing them.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry. I hope mom is ok.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry!! Poor mama...how is she doing? Start antibiotics on her 5-7 days ...electrolytes and B complex...Im so sorry

I would test teh babies...even if they all seem unrealted,,there maybe more going on then realized..


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Already given her probiotics b complex and antibiotics. She got on her feet on her own and is actively passing placenta. Poor thing has been through so much!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you have any Banamine, I would give her a shot of that too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh Jen! So sorry to hear that!  
Looks like you'll have to investigate further to see what's causing all this....how awful


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I asked earlier and didn't get a response, does she stink bad back there?

If the kids leg pulled off like that, it may mean the kid was long dead and she may have infection from the decaying kid.

If she stinks back there, if you can flush her out, it would be good to do, if she does smell.
I'd put a afterbirth bolus in the Doe while her uterus is still open, to fight infect. If they stink I'd put 2.

Start her on antibiotics as well.

Get a temp, if she has a high temp, it could be bad infection going on.

Keep her in a warm area, with plenty of bedding. 

Poor girl, so sorry for your loses. 

Have the fetuses tested as mentioned.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the support guys! Its good to know that even though I have been away for several months you guys are still there!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

No odor at all. The kid was moving when we were pulling... She died during The process. Her temp is 102.9.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad there is no bad odor that is a plus. Temp is normal too, which is good.

With time and watching her get through this, she should be alright and mend.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Sad (yet happy) to say that she seems to be doing much better than I am... Every muscle in my body is screaming. I was in a car accident a few weeks ago... Bruised my stern and broke my ribs. Pulling that hard for that long did nothing to help that!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

When there isn't any amniotic fluid left its H E double toothpicks getting them out. (see "worst kidding ever")
I venture to say that the kid was dead for some time. And it affected the other one.
This is why her labor never progressed.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

JenVise said:


> She went in labor... Pulled for 2 hours... Pulled ones leg off....they weighed about 10 lbs apiece. It was just too much for her... Solid red bucking. Traditional doeling... Neither survived.......


Only time we've had babies come out in pieces is when they've been dead in the womb for a while and started to decompose. :/

So sorry for your loss and tragic delivery. Never a good feeling when things go wrong. Good news is that you got them out and can concentrate on getting your doe healthy.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

SOunds like you are on top of her recovery!! As for you....a hot epsom salt bath would do you wonders... HUGS!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks Cathy! I know it sounds weird, but i just feel so bad that this happened on her first freshening.... I know it's bad at any kidding but it seems so much more cruel her first time...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your losses. :hug:

There is something going on with your herd to have so many kidding issues. It could be that they're not getting enough in their diet and nutrition. The doe's coat looks rough and dull and she looks underweight. What I would recommend, if she hasn't already had this. I'd do BoSe, copper, and get them on a good quality mineral if they aren't already. You might want to try some extra things like kelp. I've also used Vionate off and on with good results. Make sure they're free of worms and cocci. For pregnant does, I also recommend quality alfalfa.

If you have anymore abortions in the herd, take one of the fetuses in for testing. You might have something like chlamydia going through the herd...which can cause a lot of issues, but is fairly easy to deal with.

Hope your luck improves. I'm sorry again for the loss.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Not weird at all.. Its been a hard day for both of you...time will heal..I promise..


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks for the advice KW! I don't know if the picture is misleading because of her condition at the time, or the lighting... After posting it, I had to go out and look at her again, because she looks so dirty in the pic...but she's really not. She isn't underweight either...Actually this morning she looked quite fat, and I commented that maybe we should cut her back a bit. They get free range minerals, and baking soda, They also get high quality feed and alfalfa. I mix ACV in their water, alternating with Molasses. We did have a severe problem with worms a few months ago and all of the does had to be treated.... None are showing any signs of worms now, and have bounced back pretty good, but I'm wondering if their past worm load in early pregnancy could be a contributing factor in these abortions.... IDK...I'm shooting in the dark, here....


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I didn't think she looked too skinny, just the way she was standing, and dirty coat, which IMO is very normal this time of year. It's been so wet, even our does are dirty, especially their back legs. Some actually prefer to lay in the dirt part of the barn and not the bedded part. Silly girls lol
We have a doe that is SKINNY, and she's doing alright. 

JMO, but with so many losses, do you have more does due? If so, I'd talk to a vet or someone about precautionary treatment for chlamydia. If you have the afterbirth, you can have it tested.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I have a few more that should be bred to be due this month. But non of them are giving me the "Im 4 1/2 months pregnant" signs. So Idk...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Jen you said she was star gazing..is she still acting off? Or maybe that was her having contractions? Are you able to have any of the fetuses tested? If you have an abortion disease rushing through, you will loose more kids...


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

No she is doing much better.. I guess it was normal contractions. Also I might have had her due date off by a few days because she came into a five day heat... I went by that one. Judging by the size and development of these kids I must have been wrong. She didn't fully dilate either... It was difficult for me to get through her cervix let alone them to get out. Im looking around trying to figure out where to send the kids but I keep hitting a brick wall and all of our vets around here are basically clueless when it comes to goats.... They try... But they just don't know...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

most vets should at least be able to have info on where to send the kids...In the mean time keep them in the frige...I kow yuk lol..do not freeze them but they do need to be kept cool..of course if you have cold weather there..keeping them outside may be ok..maybe wrap in paper?


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Its 12 degrees here this morning... He is supposed to call me back..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jen what about the place in Lexington for animal disease, etc. I remember years ago I was going to have a goat tested for CL <ended up being hives/didn't test>, and they told me they do all kinds of testing.

Its the UK Veterinary Diagnostic Lab 
http://www.uky.edu/coldstream/Companies/uk-veterinary-diagnostic-laboratory


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks Candice!! I'll check it out! 
And thank you, Pam!!! A hug is exactly what I need this morning. I went to bed last night with every fiber of my being questioning if I should be doing this anymore... I try so hard to save them all... I fail, time after time after time... This morning when I went out to check on Prim, She looked up at me with trusting eyes....looking to me for support and reassurance. I sat with her for a while and watched her get up, and eat and drink...She came right back to me... Maybe I didn't do everything perfectly. Maybe I don't always save them all... what we had to do was done...and it saved her life. I may not be the best goat owner around, but I truly love every one of them! As hard as it is, I have to leave this experience in yesterday and move on to today...I have more girls who need me.... Thank you all soooo much for all you have done, and the knowledge you have shared! You truly are a Godsend!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww, don't be so hard on yourself, I know loss is hard, but as you mentioned, look to those goats that look back at you. your goats love you. 
Sometimes God has better intentions for new life ect, it is beyond our control. Which at the time of loss is very difficult and we feel we should just give up.
Get the aborting part tested and under control, then you are better prepared for next kidding season. Or, if you wanted to get things under control and skip a kidding season or so, that is up to you as well.

We are here for you anytime you want to talk.
Here is another hug


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Jen, Many times I feel the same way...When losses hit us..it is normal to question, to wonder and go through all the what if's and should have's..but in the end just like your doe, they look to us and once again soften the heart where they losses hardened it...allowing us to remember why we got goats in the first place....When ever I feel down, I know I can walk among my goats and they feel my sorrow or frustration or what ever sent me out to them for comfort...and they gather around me to consul me.....Goats are wonderful and amazing animals...and we are just human...who can only do so much...we do it..and sometimes we win sometimes we loose...but the goats are always there to pick up us and remind of the WHY....

Hugs!!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Amen! Thanks friend!!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

awww...i'm sorry for all the miscarriages you're dealing with in your herd. I hope it gets sorted soon.

:hug:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I was feeling like quitting my first year, so I know the feeling. I know how down you can get from losses... :hug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so sorry for all your losses. That has to be hard and of course you blame yourself, we all do but you have to remember that is part of doing this. It is heart breaking at times but the rewards are far greater.

When they look at you and trust you, you know you are doing what you can. 

Now I agree if that leg really came off, then there was nothing you could do what so ever. I do agree, find someplace to take a baby. You have to find out what is causing all these deaths or you will keep having them. All a vet or ALL the vets around and ask them where you can take it. They should be able to help you.


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

Wow I am so sorry for your loss


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