# Don't Know How to Handle This



## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi All,
I have a kind of serious situation on my hands. About a year and half ago, I sold 3 goats to a woman and her nephew and became friends with the people. The woman was in her sixties, and the goats were mainly hers. She had had goats as a child, and always wanted some for pets again. The goats were well taken care of, but this past winter, the woman died from cancer. Now her nephew, who is somewhat slow is overwhelmed with the goats---they had aquired quite a few more and also had chickens and turkeys. I talketalked to him a couple weeks ago a found out he has not been living at the house where the goats are because the water pipes burst back when we had below zero temps. I am worried as he's staying at a friend's house over an hour away, and has no job. I went by where the goats are, and apparently all the chickens were killed by raccoons or smething. Some of the goat shelters are falling apart, so all the bucks, does, and wethers are together. I feel like going and taking the three goats I had sold him. What does everyone think. The property is in a terrible state of neglect, and I have no idea when or if he feeds the goats on a regular basis.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

You may want to ask him if he needs help and offer to take the goats, temporarily or permanently, he may take you up on it, let him know that animal neglect is serious and you want to make his life easier. More flys with honey. Then see where he stands. Are the other goats ones you could bear to save too?


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## GATA_Goats (Sep 19, 2013)

Chadwick said:


> You may want to ask him if he needs help and offer to take the goats, temporarily or permanently, he may take you up on it, let him know that animal neglect is serious and you want to make his life easier. More flys with honey. Then see where he stands. Are the other goats ones you could bear to save too?


I agree with this approach. I would definitely do something rather than nothing.

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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I agree, offer to help, if he feels you are coming at him in a helping manner and not a judgmental manner he will be more likely to give over the reins. He honestly will probably be relieved he doesn't have to worry about them anymore.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Maybe you could offer to help or, I'm not sure if you might be wanting to do this, but maybe even suggest that if he is really stressed about the goats you could pay him a little bit to get them back..

If he's really stressed and needs a way out he may go for it.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If you do take them back, make a quarantine pen a god 100 feet away from yours and test the crap outta em. Unless you already have positive animals and or its not a concern. Or talk to the boy and write up an agreement you have them all tested and if clean, then you get possession of them. Then you can find better homes for them. Personally, Id just try and help him sell them off his place for a %.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Right after I posted this, I sent him a text asking if everything is o.k. an to please call or text me. He sent a text right back, and said he was thinking about what I had asked a couple days ago---which was could I buy back the three goats. I told him it seemed he is overwhelmed by everything right now, and it might help if he didn't have so much to worry about. He agreed, and has said I can pick the goats up on Saturday. I don't know what to do about the others. I have already given him numbers of people interested in his registered goats, but don't know if anything came of it. This is such a sad situation, and now all these female goats are pregnant----some are still just babies themselves.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Sounds like a good guy, I am so sorry for all he is going through, so very sad. 

Can you maybe help him find homes for the other goats? Are they in good enough shape that someone would be interested in buying them? Maybe list them on craigslist? I'm sure if he has it that bad, the $$ from selling them will be helpful.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

HoosierShadow said:


> Sounds like a good guy, I am so sorry for all he is going through, so very sad.
> 
> Can you maybe help him find homes for the other goats? Are they in good enough shape that someone would be interested in buying them? Maybe list them on craigslist? I'm sure if he has it that bad, the $$ from selling them will be helpful.


I second this, he may just not know what to do. If he was given some choices like, people that might be interested, craigslist, auctions he might go ahead and sell them. He probably needs the money to fix the water pipes.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

That's great that you were able to get yours back, are the conditions such that the others will be safe and healthy staying there, and will taking the three put stress on the others? If the conditions are really bad is there somewhere you could put/take them for housing until he gets things sorted out? Without knowing how many there are I find myself worried that there will only be one or two left and their herd will have dropped by more than half.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Never pay as much for a goat as what you sold it at. Especially if its not in the same or better condition. Any money it takes to bring an animal back up to the level at which is left should be anticipated and factored in.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe so sad...Im sure he wants what is best and Im glad you got involved. I dont think I could l sleep leaving any of them as they are...Maybe help him post an add for them...either way..all animals need to be rehomed..even if they need to be ran through the sale...

best wishes!!


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

There are probably 16 or so there. They seem pretty healthy. I was concerned because I have no way of knowing how often he goes out there to feed, water and check their overall health. I am going to suggest he sell the rest. He may be feeling like he's betraying his deceased aunt's trust in him by not keeping them. Most of them are registered Nigerian Dwarf goats, with at least 2 wethers that are Nigerian Dwarf/Nubian cross. I will definately help him with selling them. There were 2 boxers in the house, but I don't know if they are still there. I rapped on a window when I was there, but didn't hear any barking.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh wow, I was thinking she got a few more like 3-4 more, that's a lot of finding homes!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Maybe there's an animal sanctuary or rescue farm nearby that would be willing to care for the goats until things are organized and straightened out? Or a local farmer and neighbor that's willing to hold and care for the goats in order to help the guy out.
IMO, I wouldn't sell the very young pregnant goats just to anybody. They need to be with someone experienced and capable in case problems arise with kidding.
Either find a knowledgeable person to take them, or you could lute them if they're super young. If you explain your situation to a vet, they might be willing to lute them for a small cost. 
And your doing great, keep up the good work! Your helping your fellow man AND your fellow goats out


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes, I need to talk to him some more and find out how old the youngest does are. He also told me that his kids born this winter (to 3-5 does) all died. That is the really sad part.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

A friend and I went to get my goats this morning, and what we found was even more shocking than what was evident to me earlier in the week. First of all, the boxers are still locked in the house. Second, closer examination of the goats made it evident that they are all on the verge of starvation. I don't think they were fed hay the majority of the winter, and very little feed. There were some empty feed bags lying around, and a bit of cracked corn in the mud just thrown over the gate. The goat barn had no bedding, just layers of feces and urine---very hard to breathe in there. The bodies of three dead kids were in there, as well as several dead chickens. The saddest thing we found was a full grown buck dead in a bare shed---probably starved or froze to death. I texted the guy and said we had got my 3 goats, and said my husband and I talked it over, and we could take all the goats to our place and care for them until he gets back on his feet or decides to rehome them. He agreed. We now have his 21 and my 13 at our place. They were so hungry they immediately started eating the "wasted" hay on the ground in my goat yard. There was also a turkey tom in his garage torn apart by something, and 2 live turkey hens which I also took. I have several people wanting to give 3-4 of the goats homes, but I need to get the guy to agree to it. There will be no money changing hands, and that will be the hard part to get by him. My friends think the sheriff should be called---mainly because of the dogs, but I need to do this carefully for the goats. I will be haunted by the sight of that buck for a long time---they bought him from a good friend of mine, and she's willing to give 4 of the does a wonderful home. I can't believe it all came to this.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to call the sheriff before those dogs are dead. The sheriff also needs to see those goats.


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## GATA_Goats (Sep 19, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> You need to call the sheriff before those dogs are dead. The sheriff also needs to see those goats.


 I agree. This is animal abuse.

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I absolutely agree with Karen.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

rachelseden said:


> A friend and I went to get my goats this morning, and what we found was even more shocking than what was evident to me earlier in the week. First of all, the boxers are still locked in the house. Second, closer examination of the goats made it evident that they are all on the verge of starvation. I don't think they were fed hay the majority of the winter, and very little feed. There were some empty feed bags lying around, and a bit of cracked corn in the mud just thrown over the gate. The goat barn had no bedding, just layers of feces and urine---very hard to breathe in there. The bodies of three dead kids were in there, as well as several dead chickens. The saddest thing we found was a full grown buck dead in a bare shed---probably starved or froze to death. I texted the guy and said we had got my 3 goats, and said my husband and I talked it over, and we could take all the goats to our place and care for them until he gets back on his feet or decides to rehome them. He agreed. We now have his 21 and my 13 at our place. They were so hungry they immediately started eating the "wasted" hay on the ground in my goat yard. There was also a turkey tom in his garage torn apart by something, and 2 live turkey hens which I also took. I have several people wanting to give 3-4 of the goats homes, but I need to get the guy to agree to it. There will be no money changing hands, and that will be the hard part to get by him. My friends think the sheriff should be called---mainly because of the dogs, but I need to do this carefully for the goats. I will be haunted by the sight of that buck for a long time---they bought him from a good friend of mine, and she's willing to give 4 of the does a wonderful home. I can't believe it all came to this.


That is heartbreaking


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, take care of it. Why should he get away with starving his mothers animals to death?


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

My friend and I were going to have the sheriff meet us out there when I went the second time to get the remaining goats, but my husband didn't want me to call. My friend thinks I should just rehome the goats even w/o the guys agreement---she said he doesn't deserve kindness. I will ask the advice of my other friend who had sold him the buck that was dead---she has been in goats and livestock a long time, and whenever there is an abuse/neglect case in our area, she is one of the first the authorities call to ask if she has room for any of the animals.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

I really do want to get the authorities involved. The goats and 2 turkeys are safe---but the dogs! He told me he goes there every day, but I dont believe that. He called after I had taken the first group of goats, and I didn't say anything about the disgusting conditions or dead animals---I.just wanted tl get the live ones out first. I do have a text from him allowing me to remove all the goats, but I have no intentions of returning a single one---I just need to get him to agree that he can't handle taking care of animals at this point.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow. Be very careful with this...I would surely want the authorities aware of what is going on...he could claim them stolen..I would take pictures or a video of the dead carcasses and living conditions............


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Yes the authorities need to be involved not only for the animals sake but for your protection as well!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Most states laws include animals in property law, if you take them all without authority involvement it could reach grand theft with the number of goats we are talking about. Everyone deserves kindness, no matter what. Make sure your path is not only just, but above reproach as well.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Wonderful news! He has completely agreed to let me rehome the goats, brought me the registered ones papers and is offering to help get me some hay for a minimal amount! He said it just got to be too much and he has been stressed out. I have already lined up wonderful homes for around 15 of the goats, so that will help immensely. The 2 Nubian does have pneumonia, and are in a separate pen and on antibiotics. They will either go to a my son's in-laws who show Nubians, or be permanent pets here. After this experience, I don't know if I will be breeding any more. You have no way of knowing the fate of even registered
animals. Two of the Nigerian Dwarf does are registered and cost $400 a piece! Others were from farms 2-3 hours away and cost almost that much. Crazy.


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## GATA_Goats (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm so glad. You handled that so well.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks, this couldn't have turned out better! I want to share pics, but can't seem to on this site.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

Wow. What a sad situation. You are an amazing person for taking all this on. That's great he surrendered the animals. This is certainly the fastest way to get the animal what they need. I hope the boxers will meet a similar fate. 

Sending you a PM.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh that is great news, good job!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What about the dogs? That is great that you can re home the goats.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Wow. Be very careful with this...I would surely want the authorities aware of what is going on...he could claim them stolen..I would take pictures or a video of the dead carcasses and living conditions............


I agree with this... Authorities need to be involved.... It's never a pleasant thing to do, but to cover yourself please take pictures and videos of the conditions.... Sad situation for sure!!'


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes, what about the dogs?


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

He came out and gave me the papers today, and said he is taking the dogs to where he's staying. He said they will have to stay outside in a kennel there because the male is aggressive. So, if I had called authorities, the male would have been put down. The dogs looked healthy from what we saw through the window on Saturday. At least he can care for the dogs without the strain of all those goats.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Thank the Lord he let you have all the goats. Since he gave you the passports with the goats did you get a BOS for them? I sure would make sure he gives you one. 
I agree what about the dogs? I would call the sheriff about them. 

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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Yeah, plus most people understand dog needs better too


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

But if the dog is aggressive...that's not good


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

The dog is only agressive in a protective way. I am not going to call the sheriff about them. They are all.he has left since his aunt died. His aunt was his world and her death was the catalyst for all this. I guess I didn't explain that this is a simple, gentle man who really does love these goals like family. Everything just got away from him and he didn't know who to turn to for help. He accepted my help because he knows me and knows I truly love animals and really have his best interest at heart and am not just trying to take advantage of the situation but will find wonderful homes for the goats. He also knows I am not judging him and still call him "friend"---that's humanity.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm going to throw a few things out here, not being educated in the laws of your state and all.

When people die, their estate has to be settled. The goats were probably in the late womans name. That means the goats have to be left to someone. Make sure the ownership has been legally settled on these animals. If it hasn't they could very possibly be "wards of the court" so to speak.

The woman was probably the one caring for them, so maybe the nephew hasn't a clue.

Greed is a powerful thing. You need to get ownership transfer on paper before someone gets to this kid and convinces him these animals are worth all sorts of money and he comes back for them or demands money for them.

You also need to get some sort of law enforcement/animal control/animal welfare agent involved in this. They need to see the condition of these animals before you feed them up. They need to see the dead animals and the conditions they were living in. They need to get those Boxers out of there. Those dogs have short hair. If the pipes froze, then those poor dogs were probably almost ready to freeze too. If something is said about the ownership and it does end up in court, those animals could be ordered back to the nephew if their poor condition and his lack of care was not on record. Would you want to see that happen?


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

First of all, he is the one who was caring for them and the one buying them. He knows what he paid, and I have it in text messages that he gave me permission to take possession of the goats and to find them new homes and also their condition and all that was at his place. He told me he doesn't want any more to suffer because of what he's done wrong, and just wants the best for them. I understand the legal/officious side of this, but this is a unique situation. It's not always best to get authorities involved.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Oh I forgot, he's already brought the papers over and is coming by this weekend to sign ownership transfer for me.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Pictures from the place the goats were taken from. The shed they are standing in front of is where they slept--and no bedding, just layers of urine and feces and the remains of dead chickens and goat kids.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

After seeing the pictures I would say again GOOD JOB!


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Pictures of the goats at my place.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

More pics of my place.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are they skin & bones under the winter fluff? How are their hooves? They look like some really nice goats! I know you said some will be re-homed this weekend - how many are you keeping? I want to see the Nubians!

EDIT: I see the Nubians in the photo you posted just now - hello hip bones! They look sad.


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes, the Nubians are in the worst shape, because of having pneumonia. The crosses are pretty bad too. Some of those are my goats, but yes, the winter coats are very deceptive. They are so thin, it makes me want to cry. I found out what killed the buck---he had been eating insulation because he was so hungry. Don't know why the other buck didn't die, as he probably ate some too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

rachelseden said:


> Yes, the Nubians are in the worst shape, because of having pneumonia. The crosses are pretty bad too. Some of those are my goats, but yes, the winter coats are very deceptive. They are so thin, it makes me want to cry. I found out what killed the buck---he had been eating insulation because he was so hungry. Don't know why the other buck didn't die, as he probably ate some too.


 That's awful about the buck....glad they seem content at your place but man, you have your hands full! Do you have help to vaccinate,deworm,etc?


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## kramsay (Mar 7, 2013)

So glad you gave these guys a new start  Your a great person!!!!!


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## rachelseden (Dec 8, 2013)

I am putting off vaccinating and deworming for a bit. I want to get their weight and general condition.back first so their systems aren't overwhelmed, especially the Nubians. I have next week off work, so I will be doing hoof trimming and such---luckily quite a few will be leaving on Sunday. I'll still have more than I am used to though!


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## Bertnut2 (Feb 9, 2014)

You did a wonderful thing and handled it extremely well. I'm very sad about this situation but I am so glad you stepped in when you did. Your a great example to us all. 


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

I just read all the posts in this unfortunate situation. You should be commended for your generosity and heartfelt caring! Thank you so much for saving these awesome animals! You are a very special person! :rose:


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