# horns? ?



## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

Do doe's have horns? Mu boer/nubian mix seems ti be getting horns. She is very much a baby still and likes to be underneath me at all times. She butts her head into me and it is starting to hurt. So, do we get rid or those horns or keep them? I know with my calves we are removing them, but I'm not sure about goats!


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Yes, they do If they are small enough, you may be able to disbud. That involves burning their skulls. I would not. A mean goat is going to hurt whether it has horns or not, so I think I would just get rid of her. When she is 100 pounds and headbutting you, it is not going to feel good.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Alot of people disbud or even dehorn (very traumatic!). Disbudding is when the head is burned as a baby (usually under 2 weeks old), either with an iron or an acidic paste. That kills the horn cells or if done incorrectly, damages them leaving weak horns called scurs. Dehorning is when a vet removes the whole horn. It is usually done on mature goat. They basically scoop the hoorn out, into the sinus cavity. It is a long, painful recovery if the goat makes it through anestesia. 

There is absolutey nothing wrong with keeping horns on a goat. My does all keep their horns while my show wethers are disbudded. They all live together and no fighting. Its a personal choice really but whether you decide to leave the horns or not, you need to teach her head butting is not ok. Even a disbudded goat can cause injuries when headbutting.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How old is this goat?

If it is scurs, you can trim them. But definitely discourage the head butting.


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## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

Well I don't think she's mean, she's a baby and just wants to be with me. Is that normal? She's bottle fed, so she's attached to us. She even cries when we leave her. She usually gets in between my legs and pushes up. I kind of feel like she's trying to get milk.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How old? You could probably have her disbudded if you don't want the horns. But still discourage her from head butting. What isn't cute with a 100 lb goat shouldn't be allowed with a small goat.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Sounds like this is a baby starting to grow horns? If she's already head butting, I would disbud her now. You've done calves. We use a calf dehorning iron on our standard goat kids, and we wait longer than the "recommended" disbudding period. Lol No problems with scurs. We also did a dehorning on a yearling doe we purchased that was a witch with the horns. Dehorned her in the winter. Gouge and burn. No horn regrowth. Skin is growing over very nicely. No vet fee either. Done it many times on cattle, works for goats too. Only difference is goats scream bloody murder.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

mjs500doo said:


> and burn. No horn regrowth. Skin is growing over very nicely. No vet fee either. Done it many times on cattle, works for goats too. Only difference is goats scream bloody murder.


I can't imagine why.

Assuming you don't plan to show, horns are ok. Safety considerations come to mind. Horned goats are more likely to get stuck in fences and other interesting places they like to stick their heads. With more than one goat, which you'll eventually have whether you're planning to or not, it's important that all herd members have horns, or all herd members are hornless. With a mixed herd, those with horns will know it and use them. 
I disbud everybody at a week or so old. Horns are a pain in the backside.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Totally agree with the last post. We try not buy any horned goats around here as I refuse to increase my odds of the dairy goats getting caught from horns. No horns allowed here.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I have all wethers and a doe.. The doe has horns and never uses them. All wethers are disbudded. I think it depends more on your herd than just saying all horned goats will fight. All goats will fight, with or without horns. If you have a large herd I can see where it may be a problem finding herd order, but if you only plan to have a few then it shouldn't be hard.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Does can be horned, yes.

If you don't want her horned and she's still a baby, she can be disbudded so the horns won't come in. I disbud all my kids.
If she doesn't have a goat companion, she really should have one. That will help her wean herself off of you a bit and she'll be a much happier, healthier goat with a buddy.


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## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

She is only 3 weeks old. We are getting her a companion hopefully in the next week. She does hang out with the dogs and calves right now, but is very attached to me.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Do you bottle feed her?


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## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

Yes, she is bottle fed. We currently keep her in a crate at night because she is so small and we have coyote problems right now. I just think she's attached to my son and I because we feed her.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

AmySiemon said:


> Yes, she is bottle fed. We currently keep her in a crate at night because she is so small and we have coyote problems right now. I just think she's attached to my son and I because we feed her.


Bottle babies are yours forever.


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## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

Yes I know! ;-) we are getting her two playmates next weekend, they are about a month or so older than her, and weened already! I'm very excited to expand my herd!  This is her with my son. They are best friends.


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

How cute!!! Both her and your son are adorable!!! Dehorning really is a personal choice, and there are pros and cons either way. I personally do not dehorn my goats although I do have several that were dehorned before I got them. They all run together, and strange as this may sound some of my dehorned goats rank high in the pecking order. None of my goats have ever intentionally used their horns on me, although I have been accidently bumped a few times.

You've seen the reasons for dehorning, so I'll play devils advocate and give you the reasons I have for leaving them intact. The biggest reason is heat. It gets well up over 100 degrees for me in the summer. Goats don't sweat, they pant, and they release heat through the base of their horns. On hot summer days, I've noticed that my dehorned goats are stretched out panting in the shade while my horned goats are up and being goats. 

The next reason is protection, the horns wont do much against a determined predator, but I've seen a dog back off when a goat spun around and tilted a horn in it's direction. This bought valuable time for my LGD to get over there. 

The final reason is probably silly, and emotion driven, but I find their horns to be bueatiful. Every goat has a unique set of horns and I love watching them grow. They tell the goats life story, and I find that facinating. I can look at a goats horns and tell you when it's been sick, undernourished, or well cared for.

If you do keep horned goats, the best piece of advice I was ever given is do not reguraly handle their horns. Sure, they make a great handle when you need to move a stubborn goat, but they are not a toy to play with. Everytime you grab a goat's horns you are taking away it's only means of defense. I've seen kids that think it's fun to grab, and play tug of war with the goats horns. This makes a goat defensive, and often aggressive about it's horns.

One more thing, and I'm sorry for being winded. Your bottle baby is being playful right now, that's why she's butting you. It's perfectly normal, and not aggressive. You're her "herd" and she's learning how to be a goat. This is no different than the stage where a puppy begins to nip and chew it's people before it learns better. All of my closest bottle babies have done this. Just like with a puppy, correcting her now will save your legs down the road. Whenever my bottle babies touch me with their head, I give them a quick flick on the nose and tell them "no" firmly. Be careful that you don't push back at all (otherwise you're butting back and playing with them). I usually just correct them and move my leg forward walking away from them. Goats are smart, and it doesn't take them long to realize that if they want attention from their people they need to keep their head off their legs.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

SCMRG I'd love to hear your observations on reading horns, can you start a thread on that?

We rarely disbud our Boers.
We learned to duct tape a stick to the horns if they happen to keep getting stuck in fence. Which is rare since we switched to field fencing.
Interestingly enough, the first goats were horned triplets. A week later we picked up a Nubian from the same farm.
They took turns beating the snot out of her but guess what, she was the first to kid & until her death was herd queen, throwing that naked head around & putting everyone in their place when needed.


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## AmySiemon (May 3, 2013)

Thanks for the advice! I do think I am going to keep them. Hopefully she'll learn to quit butting at me. I did flick her nose earlier, and I noticed she distanced herself a tiny bit!


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

Amy. I'm glad to hear she's giving you more space. With consistency she should learn to keep her head off you. 

Nancy, I'll post a new thread in Goat Management with my horn observations.


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