# Sticky  Repositioning Kids - Newbies Experience



## Hockeydudde

Sorry, this is a long post.
I'm so grateful to this community for the help they provide. I'm not knowledgeable enough to feel like I have a way to repay, but I thought maybe this could be my way to contribute.
I recently had a doe with a hard labor. Doe in labor, looking for advice
I had to "go in" several times. I thought I had watched and read allot and would know what to do... Wrong. I feel like this description might have helped me, so I'm throwing it out there. I'm no expert, not saying this is the right way to do anything, more so a description of my experience.

For context we have N. Dwarfs and I'm a man that wears size med-large gloves.
After you've cleaned up and put on glove, did you remove rings? Have allot of gloves, seems like as soon as you put one on, you swipe something and get it dirty. Get the shoulder length ob gloves. Nitro food prep won't cut it. You will be in nearly up to your elbow.

Once you are ready and lubed up, gently try to insert your hand. It doesn't feel like it will fit. You will say to your SO, "MY HAND WON'T FIT!" It will. You have to push pretty hard to get through the pelvis. Go slow but push hard. Your doe will scream. If there is a kid presenting and you are pushing it back, your pressure will make her contact/push. I tried to time it in-between her contractions, but my pressure made her contact. I just had to push through it. When I say I had to push hard, the bones in my palm are still sore, 6 days later.
Once your palm is past the pelvis you have room and time to feel around. If she has a contraction while you are in there, just wait it out. No need to rush now, it takes a while to figure out what is what. I wasted quite a while rushing to find a head flailing around. Take your time, find a part you can identify, picture the kid in your head and sort it out. The most traumatic part for both of you is inserting hand past the pelvis. Take your time here to try to minimize the number of times you have to go in. Once you find the head, the hardest part is getting it to turn nose first, there just isn't room (at least that's how it feels).

I could not get the head turned with my hand inside her. I had to get my fingers wrapped around the chin, lifting and turning it as I pulled my hand out. I had one shot per time I went in. So make it count. I had to apply more force on the kid than I thought safe, its a tough balance and you will say "I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING!" here. You got it. Take your time.

Lastly, it's so hard to decide when to intervene, and we'd all like to not have to if we don't need to. In hind sight, it's better to go in today and get a live kids out than tomorrow and have a still born.

More experienced folks, please add anything you see fit, or point out where I went wrong. I don't want to lead people astray, just want to get my description of what it feel like it there, in hopes it helps someone else.
Thanks!


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## Feira426

Thanks for taking the time to write this out, @Hockeydudde - I remember the first time I reached in to try to help, and you’re right. It’s so hard to feel what’s what and figure out what you need to do! Maybe this will help someone in the future!


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## Feira426

Adorable goats by the way! 😍


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## Goatastic43

This is actually a very helpful description! I’ve never had to go in before, so I will be saving this for future use. Thanks for posting, and congrats on the cute kids!


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## toth boer goats

I personally just wash up and go in without gloves, but will always insert a afterbirth bolus after she drops her afterbirth or within 6 hours before she closes and will insert a bolus hunting for the uterus hole. Whether it not she drops the afterbirth or not. 

You said push hard, never get rough and force to hard. It takes time and be gentle, you do not want to tear or hurt her. 

To help manually dilate a doe, gently work around just in the inside vulva area pushing against the wall inward all the way around in a circle. Or gently push pulling outward all the way around. 
After a while of doing this, she will start to open up better and you may feel rings, and then can go in a bit deeper at a time until you get your while hand in there and can feel the kid. 
Work the rings as you did prior with slight pushing pressure to get them to loosen up. 


At some point, you will have to break the bubble around the kid to be able to feel position. Sometimes it is already broken.
Don’t worry at that point,
the bubble has nothing to do with oxygen, it is the umbilical cord which supplies that. If it is not severed you are OK. Breach on the other hand will most likely break if it is at the door. So work quickly as you can. But don’t panic. 

If the head is too big, do the same technique again with your 2 fingers and work around the vulva and the kids head. You want to see the kid in diving position. At the same time, pull on the leg or legs.

When you reach in to feel for the kid, feel for legs and the head. If you can’t feel the head , you will have to search for it and pull it forward into position.
If you can find one leg and have the head in position you can pull it out that way. 
If breach, you can pull it out that way, but be quick about it as you can, because the umbilical cord will be severed and that is the life line at that point, the kid will suffocate.

The doe will push against your hand so if you have to push the kid back to be able to find a leg or the head pause, until that urge to push stops so you can push the kid back and hunt for the right parts. 

Have a lamb puller handy, if the head is back, it is easier to use this to snare the head/neck so you can pull on the puller with the head at the same time you are pulling the leg(s).

Be careful when trying to reposition the head, guard the teeth with your fingers so the sharp teeth does not rip the doe wide open.


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## Goats Rock

One thing I might add- the pelvis is shaped wide in the middle and narrow top and bottom- sometimes, with big heads on a kid, it helps
to try and rotate the kid so the widest part of the head is where the pelvis is widest. Also- when pulling the front legs, pull one then the other- it helps
the shoulders come through one at a time. Try and pull with the contractions- not when she is not pushing. 

If you don't have a lamb puller or you have too many legs (multiple kids) tie a clean piece of baling twine on one leg, and a different color length of twine
on the other leg- especially if you have to push the kid back to fish out the correct leg (s). The twine will let you know if it is the same leg
or another one!


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## Hockeydudde

@Goatastic43 , I hope you never need it 😉
Thanks @toth boer goats and @Goats Rock , both very helpful advice, that I also hope I never need again...


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## FizzyGoats

This is a great thread. I won’t experience my first kidding for almost a year as I plan to breed this fall. But this is so informative. For me, the details of how to do it, what you’ll feel, and when/how to position or pull are extremely helpful. I am just soaking up everyone’s experience and advice. 

Oh, and your babies and mama are beautiful. Congratulations!


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## Jessica84

You guys pretty much nailed it on how I do it. I also don’t wear gloves. It’s just easier to feel around for me and determine what I have and don’t have. I can’t get a snare to work if my life depended on it so I also use hay strings. But I did buy one from premier 1 that instead of a hard plastic is a rubber and I have not used that yet but seems easier then the hard plastic with a Y. 
Pulling 1 leg then the other is probably the best trick there is! I don’t know why it helps get those big babies out but it does.
The only thing I would add that I do is I check things out well before the 1/2 hour mark. I don’t stick my whole hand in but I will put a finger up there and see what is going on. If only 2 feet I will give it a few minutes but if that nose Is not there I will go ahead and go fishing. Same if it’s just a head and no feet. I have found that it’s just easier to step in early then later. 
Toth has great advise on getting that cervix more open. If it’s a normal birth the head and feet will slowly stretch that cervix out more as it’s being born as it comes out and the head gets larger. When you don’t have a normal position you don’t have that, so just go nice and slow. 
In the end though you got that baby out and saved both their lives! Great job!


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## Goats Rock

Its really strange that when you "go in" and feel a part of a baby- you can't figure out what you are feeling- I mean- we've all petted etc. our goats-
but, in a foreign environment- without our eyes- our hands suddenly get stupid! For anyone not familiar with having a hand in an area you aren't 
usually in- practice feeling a goat with your eyes closed- visualize the front and back legs with your hands, feel the hock vs. the knee? shoulder vs. hip,
ribs, neck, etc. (just trying to let the ones not familiar get a step up in case of a non- textbook delivery!)


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## Hockeydudde

Goats Rock said:


> Its really strange that when you "go in" and feel a part of a baby- you can't figure out what you are feeling- I mean- we've all petted etc. our goats-
> but, in a foreign environment- without our eyes- our hands suddenly get stupid! For anyone not familiar with having a hand in an area you aren't
> usually in- practice feeling a goat with your eyes closed- visualize the front and back legs with your hands, feel the hock vs. the knee? shoulder vs. hip,
> ribs, neck, etc. (just trying to let the ones not familiar get a step up in case of a non- textbook delivery!)


Yes! I was shocked how hard it was to tell. The other thing was, inside, they are very "soft". Not sure how else to say it. To me it feels like the bones are limp and rubbery. That was also part of my confusion.


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## toth boer goats

It takes a few kiddings before it becomes easier to know what you are feeling.


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## TripleShareNubians

This is great. I don't wear gloves either I bought something this year called super lube from premier one it's a lube and antiseptic in one so I at least like through that on my hands and up my arm a bit like I was using hand sanitizer.
Somebody was talking about bigger kids and heads earlier I had to pull a kid with just one head and a leg this year because it was not going to come out the right way it wasn't going to fit the head and two legs simply were not going to come out.
Also if you have time you can put a CC or two of lute on a surgical glove and then stretch around the cervix. I did that with the really big boy this year because she he was not coming and I needed to get her as dilated as I could. 
I just had a rough birth on Sunday with Chaos. She was pushing and things weren't moving so I went to check and there was a tail but I couldn't get him to move it all backwards in the brief minute I took to try and given that position I just grabbed what I could and pulled him out by the hips he wasn't very big. I quickly learned why I couldn't push him back to try to move him around because like literally in his belly in the middle as he's coming out comes the second kid. I'm trying to get one nose cleaned off while I'm trying to get the other one breathing spinning the kid and sucking with the suck bulb and having so much fun. I checked briefly and didn't feel another kid but she's a big deep doe so I went to working on those two and she went down to push a few minutes later so I left her to it for a second but then after she got up and down twice to realize we've got another one in funny position of some kind so I had to go back in. This baby was like upside down and head back and boy it was a mess trying to get it turned and she was getting really tired by that point. Thankfully after that momentary panic when like someone says you're trying to figure out what you're feeling and working at not thinking I was going to be able to get this one I was finally able to get him out and he's doing fine.
I think like someone mentioned the hardest part is that feeling of panic that you're not going to be able to get it done that you can't figure it out just breathe relax as best you can in that tense situation and slow down as much as you can and just do your best.


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## littleheathens

Great help here! I'm bookmarking this. I've had to pull but not reposition, and only on sheep so far. 

It's interesting that y'all don't use gloves...I'd worry about my fingernails causing injury but I suppose a fast trim is enough. 

I second Super Lube: https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/superlube I've used it pulling and we coat ear tags with it (far fewer infection issues). Love that stuff. People really like the consistency of that product over other lubes.


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## TripleShareNubians

littleheathens said:


> Great help here! I'm bookmarking this. I've had to pull but not reposition, and only on sheep so far.
> 
> It's interesting that y'all don't use gloves...I'd worry about my fingernails causing injury but I suppose a fast trim is enough.
> 
> I second Super Lube: SuperLube™ I've used it pulling and we coat ear tags with it (far fewer infection issues). Love that stuff. People really like the consistency of that product over other lubes.


This is the first year that I've had to super lube and I do like it. I do you have gloves in my kid and I use them sometimes but other times I'm just in the middle of it.


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## Hockeydudde

I need to order some stuff from them, going to grab a bottle. Thanks for the tip. We have the powdered stuff, can't remember the brand, but I didn't enjoy using it and it's hard to clean up.


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## ksalvagno

Keep in mind that if there is a tear in the uterus and the powder lube gets in the abdomen, it will kill the goat.


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## TripleShareNubians

littleheathens said:


> Great help here! I'm bookmarking this. I've had to pull but not reposition, and only on sheep so far.
> 
> It's interesting that y'all don't use gloves...I'd worry about my fingernails causing injury but I suppose a fast trim is enough.
> 
> I second Super Lube: SuperLube™ I've used it pulling and we coat ear tags with it (far fewer infection issues). Love that stuff. People really like the consistency of that product over other lubes.


You're a farm girl and have fingernails?!?!!


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## Goats Rock

I use surgical gloves- I usually have splits on my fingers- it's a non stop thing until summer. Anyway- just in case I have bad bacteria or the doe
does- I just like the surgical gloves- I keep fingernails super short- (confession- I used to bite my nails to the quick- until I got dentures! I had no idea
that fingernails grow so fast! !!)


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## littleheathens

TripleShareNubians said:


> You're a farm girl and have fingernails?!?!!


It must be all that milk I drink! My mom used to say if you had long nails you weren't working hard enough.


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## Cedarwinds Farm

I don't have a lot of experience with kidding assists, because fortunately, most of my does are healthy, active, and vigorous, and have given birth to kids that are the same!

A couple of times, I have gotten over zealous about 'helping' a doe deliver a big kid. If they come too fast, the vulva may tear, which will add to the doe's pain level and slow recovery down. If it's a normal presentation, don't worry about getting the kid delivered right away. Once the head is out, you can start clearing airways and make sure the kid is breathing, even before the rest of the body is delivered. You also don't ever want to pull if you can avoid doing so. You are just applying a little gentle, firm pressure downward, to help gravity and the doe's contractions do what they're supposed to do. 

The health of the doe leading up to delivery is also so important! The more active and healthy they are, no major mineral imbalances, etc., the easier time they should have with kidding.


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## toth boer goats

Definitely, if you are not using gloves.
Trim fingernails short, make sure you feel for any sharpness and clip it off as well.
Wash up well, all the way up to your elbow.

I made this thread a sticky.


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## TripleShareNubians

Cedarwinds Farm said:


> I don't have a lot of experience with kidding assists, because fortunately, most of my does are healthy, active, and vigorous, and have given birth to kids that are the same!
> 
> A couple of times, I have gotten over zealous about 'helping' a doe deliver a big kid. If they come too fast, the vulva may tear, which will add to the doe's pain level and slow recovery down. If it's a normal presentation, don't worry about getting the kid delivered right away. Once the head is out, you can start clearing airways and make sure the kid is breathing, even before the rest of the body is delivered. You also don't ever want to pull if you can avoid doing so. You are just applying a little gentle, firm pressure downward, to help gravity and the doe's contractions do what they're supposed to do.
> 
> The health of the doe leading up to delivery is also so important! The more active and healthy they are, no major mineral imbalances, etc., the easier time they should have with kidding.


That's a good deal. And I've only really had the one this year myself unfortunately it's usually when there are multiples and something happens like this time where you get one trying to shove the the little one out but first. I'm glad I rarely get one sitter not positioned well and she's had four other sets of triplets without issues not sure what the difference was with this one.


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## Goatastic43

toth boer goats said:


> Definitely, if you are not using gloves.
> Trim fingernails short, make sure you feel for any sharpness and clip it off as well.
> Wash up well, all the way up to your elbow.
> 
> I made this thread a sticky.


Thanks for making it a sticky!! There is so much good information here!


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## MellonFriend

I haven't gone through this whole thread yet, but I just wanted to offer a tip I found in a book that has been super helpful to me.

I like to use gloves, but I hate how big and plastic the OB shoulder length gloves are, so what this book taught me to do is cut the fingers off of them at about were your second knuckle would be and use a normal wrist length disposable glove underneath it. This way you can wear a form fitting glove that give you better touch sensitivity, there's not risk of accidentally slipping the glove while inside the doe, and you get full arm coverage. I like the vinyl gloves from Walmart for my under layer and whatever OB gloves I can find. The vinyl gloves fit my large women sized hands very well. I'm also a fan of Premier 1 Super lube.


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## toth boer goats

Goatastic43 said:


> Thanks for making it a sticky!! There is so much good information here!


You are very welcome.


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