# I think our 4h sucks ?



## justspry

SO my son picked a lamb for the fair they let him pick it and didn't tell him anything . My vet came out and told me its knock kneed , splay legged and fat ! So shouldn't our 4h lamb leader be teaching them what to look for and we have had it for two weeks and the only advise we got was talk to it !!!!!!!!!! I'm very disappointed we will be doing our goats this year and they want me to be the dairy goat leader but I would teach the kids what to look for and how to train it instead of just pick one and talk to it ! We spent $400 for the lamb for it to have 3 problems I mean there is no such thing as a perfect animal but that's a lot to deal with at one time not to mention its wilder than snot !


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## nancy d

That's very disappointing! Maybe you should accept the invite!


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## justspry

This our first year in 4h so I was just wondering if this was standard practice I guess not lol


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## kccjer

Not all 4H project leaders do much. We've had leaders that didn't even do THAT much! Keep in mind that leaders are volunteers and don't always know (or care) what help you actually need. Did you buy it from the lamb leader? Sounds like it's going to be a learning experience for both your child and you...unfortunately. Can you post a pic of it so we can see and maybe give some advice? I remember how wild my daughters lambs were...I hated those things (and we owned the mamas....sigh...)!


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## loggyacreslivestock

I can try to help you too. I am the livestock leader for my 4H. If you want some nice info for feeding, taking care of and choosing your lamb, I can put some links on here for you. You already have your lamb this year, let it be a learning year and strive for better next year.


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## kccjer

You can also go to the 4H mall online and go to literature and buy the little booklets that give information.

http://www.4-hmall.org/Category/4-hcurriculum-sheep.aspx

Or...your extension office might have them where you can "check" them out like you would at a library.


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## justspry

No we bought them from a breeder but he went with them and he has 4 of his kids do lambs . But they have never placed higher than 3rd in their 10 years and their priority seems to be their kids and they don't return calls we don't even know how to do showmanship with a lamb !

Her front legs


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## justspry

Here you can see the splayed part in fronts as well


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## justspry

SO what do I do for feed since shes on the fat side ? She weighed 92 lbs when we got her two weeks ago and I would say shes nearly 100 and the fair is may 17th


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## kccjer

Looking at that last pic...I don't see anything that screams terrible to me. I would let my daughter show it. I don't pay that much for any 4H animal tho. Period. I won't pay but a few cents over market value because my daughter can't make any money off it otherwise.


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## kccjer

Put her feeder up where she has to stand up to reach it. Wish I had a pic of how we did it. Give her a steep ramp to stand on so she has to stretch to reach. Get ahold of her, get a halter on her and WALK her every day. It's going to be a pain, but the more you do it, the easier it will get. What are you feeding now?


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## GroundGoats

I have a question about 4-H livestock shows...
My friends daughter came back from the show in tears with a 1ST PLACE! I couldn't understand it, but her mother explained that the Dairy Cow Leader ran a dairy and had all her children and other kids showing HER cows, when Jessie won with a DIFFERENT cow, the children were basically told that she only one because the judge didn't know the breed and falsely declared it an exemplary animal, by the LEADER. Jessie quit 4-H because the leaders children and he leader wouldn't even acknowledge her and I guess the leader told other parents that my friends daughter is a 'bad egg.'

Is it common for jealousy like this to crop up from leaders that raise the animals they're supposed to be teaching about?

It seems like this may be what happened with your lamb. :/
I'm really sorry you had to experience raising a lamb this way!
Hopefully you will have better experiences with 4-H in the future.


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## justspry

Well our market Lambs if done right go for $1000-1500 but that was the only guy our leader could find course I don't know how much he looked either lol  Also how does he shave its head and face its furry all over lol  I think shes cute but not into raising lambs lol


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## ciwheeles

*edit* Sorry I was doing something and accidentally typed a bunch of random letters. And then my phone managed to send that. :/

That is really disappointing what they did to your son. No kid deserves to go through that


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## justspry

We walk her but son cant walk her yet as she bucks badly ! He can only walk her back to the barn lol . We are feeding her a flake of alfalfa and 2 cup of lamb grower Is that right ?


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## sweetgoats

we had sort of the same thing when we started. I was told I was buying a great Cashmere goat. YES she was a great Goat but NOT Cashmere. She was a Cashgora (Cashmere /Angora). We were not happy and these were people that were big in this. And that is how they sell what they don't want? REALLY. 

Well we were determined to figure this out and make the best of it.

Not all leaders are like that, i do know that in our market classes it is VERY cut throat. 

Now for your lamb, I can not believe they charged you $400.00 that is insane. Yes her front knees are going to cause a lower place but with that I see she has a very broken pastern on that from right leg. (Not really broken, see how it looks like it is bent really weird).

Without feeling her, just make the best of what you have and learn from this year. Feed her well and LOTS of exercise. I would have your child really concentrate on showmanship, that is what I believe 4H is really all about. Anyone can raise a great animal but it takes a GREAT Showmen to really show it well. The judge will not judge the legs, they will judge the cleanliness of the animal, knowledge of the showmen, clipping of the feet and body, and of the project.


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## justspry

So if he puts in the work he will atleast get the satisfaction of knowing he did his best ! I make him do all the work for it I don't lift a finger other than to drag it while I tap its rear to the other side of the pen lol  He might even be able to work on her stance so its not so noticeable


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## kccjer

GroundGoats...to answer your question about jealousy. YES. Extremely common. Everyone wants to win so when they don't...there has to be a reason. And that reason can't be that your animal just didn't appeal to that judge on that day. 4H has become an extreme competiton and that is too bad because it should be teaching herdsmanship and sportsmanship. I've seen it too often tho. 

Your "leader" should...should...be able to help you shear the lamb. Or...find another kid in the county that has lambs and ask them for help. The 1st year my daughter showed goats, it was a couple girls from an entirely different club that helped her out. They even sheared her lamb for her at the fair that year! 

We fed a mixed ration and basically had ours on full feed with a little hay. Be careful on the hay because you don't want her to develop a "hay belly" that stops her looking "streamlined". I would keep her on what you're feeding for now. I went back and looked at our weigh in from last year. A majority of the lambs weighed in at 90 to 100+. The grand champion from last year weighed in at 100. You're ok.


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## HoosierShadow

Sorry I don't know a thing about lambs. Can you have your son watch youtube videos? That may help him understand how to show.

Our 4-H here there is no goat clumb, lamb club, it's just a 'livestock club.' But it's a great club, they do try to cover different animals, all kinds of topics, etc. My kids are the only ones really into goats, that show at the different county fairs. There is one other family that showed at our county fair/youth expo last year, hoping they will be showing again this year too.
My kids have had this forum to help them with their goats, youtube video, but just getting out there showing, watching the other kids & how they show has helped them greatly, they so much each summer about showing.
They don't have fancy, show stopping goats either, but their goats have always held their own and I'm so proud of them. 

IMO, I'd get your son out there showing this lamb, and get a year under him to learn how to show, what to look for, etc. then next year you'll know what to look for in a lamb.


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## justspry

So do you guys have a livestock meeting to go over your projects ?


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## wildegoats0426

I was in FFA and we had paid a guy to help pick out our goats and that's exactly what happened to me. My goat was terrible and this guy didn't give any of us the time of day. Except for his nephew from my chapter who won grand OF COURSE. Not to mention we weren't told we had to brace our goats so I was just standing in the ring with my goat and AT THE SHOW our advisor told me never pick a black headed goat. Thanks for telling me the day of show.. 
I want to be an extension agent or ffa advisor and I will not do this to my kids


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## GroundGoats

Could you get in touch with an older 4-H member that has already completed your son's activity? Maybe they could help? They'll know how to fit and show your son's lamb, which really is the important part in my opinion. They'll be able to give advice on what the judge might be looking for as well and teach you and your son ring etiquette.

I hope your son isn't disappointed too much in his lamb, there's still a lot of fun to have! Hopefully this experience isn't too discouraging, I just remembered my own 4-H experience, I quit because of it. But I did pony showing and sewing, both things my mother had extensive experience with.

It may be best for your son to spend time in an open stall with the lamb, so they can become acquainted without a scary halter and a towering human adult around (speaking from the lambs point of view).
Have him practice putting the halter on and off for a while, even just getting the lamb to allow him to put a collar on helps. You can have your son feed the lamb her rations by hand to try to tame her. If the halter is too tight or you're literally dragging her along, she'll buck more. Try small steps at a time, always reward forward movement and ignore backwards movement, bucking, etc. A prey animal has a great memory for bad experiences, so so memory for good ones, so try to keep that in mind.

A lamb is a meat project, correct? And some breeds of sheep don't have wool on their faces or legs. 


Carmen, that's AWFUL. I plan on having my daughter do 4-H, but I don't think I could keep my mouth shut or my temper down if some ADULT was treating her unfairly.
I guess I'll just have to be leader then. No choice as far as I'm concerned. I mean, they're KIDS. If you're a jerk over these things, that's what you're teaching them, to be a jerk. To do whatever you need to to get ahead and not even fret about trouncing all over fellow man. Teaching them to not properly handle defeat. Teaching them to talk smack. 

That's the kind of stuff Ted the Bull drops steaming in the morning.


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## Scottyhorse

We ended up quitting the first club I was in. The leader made it for her daughter and her friends. She taught us NOTHING. The new club I am in is 1 hour, 15 mins away (first one was like 15 mins) but it is well worth it! 

The only show training I had was a 5 minute seminar. I've had to learn myself.


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## justspry

Yeah I didn't know we can join any club so we are going to join one still same distant but the people attend my church so its better but we cant change right now can we , we have to wait until this year is over right


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## ksalvagno

I would find out. Certainly can't hurt to ask.


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## justspry

Also he can feed it and pet it but walk it no way !


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## Scottyhorse

I know some kids just joined the marksmanship club I am president of. You might be able to switch if you want.


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## kccjer

It definitely is sad and awful. Sydney, I helped start a club in our little town. Was leader for a year and basically got shoved out (wasn't interested in fighting over leadership) let it go a year and got back in as leader. Because of the parents in the group (my "best" friend included) my daughter is now in a club 20 minutes away compared to the 2 minutes. And I hear that the club is horrible to be in now. They were all mad at me because I DO expect the kids to sit down and shut up during meetings and to behave like they are representing our club when we are in public as a club. 

The worst thing to me IS the parents. My daughter has told me how thankful she is that I don't stand at the sidelines screaming at her during horseshows, etc. I understand wanting your child to win...that is absolutely the most fantastic feeling...BUT... I know parents who badmouth everyone if their child doesn't win. I also have dealt with snotty kids that throw temper tantrums if they don't win. We have a girl 3 years older than my daughter that has shown horses for at least that much longer than my daughter that throws a FIT if my daughter even gets new tack! Thankfully, they don't often show in the same age group. I know she and her parents were NOT happy when my daughter's mare beat hers in the halter class. 

I've been in 4H long enough to have heard most of it. I can remember hearing someone hopping mad cause they "paid X dollars for their steer and it should have won". I've not been happy with judges before...I think we get some pretty biased judges...But, that's life. You can't always win and you need to be happy for the ones that do win! Although it IS pretty hard to be happy when they win year after year cause they have access to money and actual show animals. LOL 

Hopefully, you can find some other 4H'ers that are willing to help newbies out. Ask. Even ask at your Extension office for names of some other kids in the project. They usually know who is willing to help new members. And...I would definitely look into what other clubs are available to you.


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## kccjer

justspry said:


> Yeah I didn't know we can join any club so we are going to join one still same distant but the people attend my church so its better but we cant change right now can we , we have to wait until this year is over right


Nope. You SHOULD be able to change now. We've had kids do it. Just go in and ask at your extension office for sure.


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## Scottyhorse

Karmen, good post.


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## NubianFan

Your 4-H club is as strong as its leaders good leaders=good club. I have the same issue with my daughters club. She wants to go independent she hates it so much but I told her she should try another club first.


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## GroundGoats

justspry said:


> Also he can feed it and pet it but walk it no way !


How long have you had the lamb?
It takes time. It's alone from her point of view, so she needs to learn that your son is her new herd mate.

*secretly a sheep*


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## TDG-Farms

4H isnt about the animal confirmation. Its about showmanship. Granted it does help to have a nice animal. But as long as its in shape, well cared for and groomed, it should have as much chance as any other.


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## kccjer

TDG-Farms said:


> 4H isnt about the animal confirmation. Its about showmanship. Granted it does help to have a nice animal. But as long as its in shape, well cared for and groomed, it should have as much chance as any other.


Unfortunately...that isn't the truth anymore. NOW...it's about how many ribbons you can bring home.

It IS actually about conformation. You are suppose to be learning how to pick an animal that will do well in the market place. If you don't pay attention to conformation, your animal won't do well in a market. An animal with poor conformation will have a ton of health issues and won't gain weight or just won't produce like it should.

Showmanship isn't about conformation. That is about grooming and showing your animal to it's full potential. It's about the time and effort you have put into your animal so that you CAN show it.


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## justspry

Well we haven't learned either showmanship or configuration . We have had a few weeks now and now she eats out of our hands when we first got her she tried to run through us and thank goodness we had a old dog kennel she couldn't jump out of ! We cant exercise her much because she doesn't lead at all its a pull and tug battle should we use treats ? And shes not in with the goats because she will run away but she can see them and it helps with loneliness on her part . The only thing we were taught or told was pick one put it in a small pen and talk to it ! So I will look into changing if we can !


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## Scottyhorse

kccjer said:


> Unfortunately...that isn't the truth anymore. NOW...it's about how many ribbons you can bring home.
> 
> It IS actually about conformation. You are suppose to be learning how to pick an animal that will do well in the market place. If you don't pay attention to conformation, your animal won't do well in a market. An animal with poor conformation will have a ton of health issues and won't gain weight or just won't produce like it should.
> 
> Showmanship isn't about conformation. That is about grooming and showing your animal to it's full potential. It's about the time and effort you have put into your animal so that you CAN show it.


Agreed. The girl with the $1500 Boer doe and a herd of national champs at her finger tips wins most of everything.


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## kccjer

If it were mine, here is what I would do. Get a halter on it and tie it up. Let it fight all it wants. Pet on it and rub on it and just plain mess with it the whole time it's tied up. Every day. Tie it up and have him sit out there and read to it. Once it figures out that fighting the rope isn't going to get it anywhere...it should settle down a little more. How old is your son? You show sheep without a halter or collar. You hang onto them with both hands...one over the back of their heads right behind the ears and the other hand under their chin. If your son is still pretty young (under 10) he can get away with showing with a halter. Older than that, a lot of judges will send them back out of the arena.


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## justspry

Hes nine this is first year and first animal period :/


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## NyGoatMom

After reading this thread, I have to say how sorry I am to all the kids who try to have a good animal and some good clean fun, only to be taught by adults that it is a dog eat dog competition  That's really too bad.


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## Scottyhorse

Yeah, it's pretty tough. Lucky for me, I am into the show stock anyways, so I buy nice animals. But still :/ The most expensive animal I have is $300. In the next year or two I will be spending more, but, I want to have show quality animals. Sometimes the adults get too involved.


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## SMB_GoatHerd

I can understand your unfair 4-H clubs. Our club tends to do a lot with our kids, and gets the as ready for the ring as possible. And it shows. Last year we had 6 out of 8 kids who show dairy beef get grand or reserve in their showmanship. Other 4-H clubs will just give a dirty look from the sidelines. It also causes our club not to be able to add anymore species because, for example, big steers. We are one of the main dairy beef clubs and the steers despise our club because the owners think that their animals are the best little angels and they get mad when we have to walk our animals through the barn. And it's the ONLY way to get into the show ring. Some people are just nasty. 
I agree with trying to find someone who has completed the project before and actually HELPS your son. 
Shows also aren't fair. Our goat showmanship system is broken, I beleive. In it, kids can show either market or dairy. Understandable, until you take it in the eyes of the kids who only have market and have no hoice there. I've shown for 7 years and see the same thing every year. Last year I did fairly well, I got 7th of 15. In front of me, there were 5 dairy goats. Said dairy goats have been in so many shows and can basically show themselves. I, on the other hand have had my goat for 5 months and it has never been in a show ring before. Let alone, around this many goats. It's just another example of the unfairness of many 4-H things from all over. (In the process of trying to get some change around the goat shows, but unlikely due to which club I belong to)
EDIT**I'm sorry i this seems offensive to anyone, I have absolutely nothing against dairy breeds, just my broken system of showing. I actually strive to own a dairy breed of my own one day**
I'm sorry for your club and I really do hope you can get things straightened out. I wish the best for you and your son. Sorry for the length of this post. D:


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## Scottyhorse

In showmanship, we can show dairy or market. It can be a little unfair, but what about the kids like me, who don't have a market animals? A good judge will also have you switch goats.


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## TDG-Farms

Thats disgusting to hear that 4H has fallen so far from what it was intended to do. 4H was about the how to raise and care and then prepare and show an animal. Confirmation should never be a factor in 4H. It has nothing to do with picking the right animal or who has the most money to spend on the best blood lines. What a great way to make a poor child feel even poorer. Judging was done on the child and the kids ability with his/her animals. Kinda makes me wanna start judging 4H classes to bring some meaning back into 4H.


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## Darlaj

Wow I feel lucky  we have a great club ! When my daughter started last year I felt that there could be more info in the beginning but then again 4h was gone for 5 yrs and just restarted .... Our leaders in our club do not have children in 4h for the most part some do but are very nice and try to educate those who wish to learn. We got our own animal .... Our leaders do sellt there's sometimes but there herd name is on them there for they want them so show well


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## SMB_GoatHerd

I do have a great club, just not a great showmanship setup in my area. And yes, many judges do have you switch animals. Especially goats. But our showmanship and fitting are together and obviously that girl's 8 year old Nubian is going to stand better to be clipped than my 6 month old Boer goat who has never seen a set of clippers. EVER. I love showing. It can just be so unfair...


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## justspry

Well it is all about competition and that's the intent but for someone who have never shown before its nice to be taught how to do so and not thrown in sink or swim  He understands he has to work hard and he might not win but he has to know how to work


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## kccjer

You have jealousy between species too. Our horse and beef people would be ecstatic if they were the only animals shown at our fair. 

Showmanship can be unfair. I admit, I had my daughter show her dairy goat instead of her market. Part of the reason was that I knew who she had for competition and knew that someone who didn't deserve the win would get it because of showing her dairy goat (and the ONLY reason that girl would get it was because of how tame her goat was...not because the girl could show). But...keep in mind that at our show...we have to show Dairy goats as if they are meat goats. And the judge at our fair judges everything based on meat goat standard (try showing a dairy goat under those circumstances!) My daughter has been super lucky with her showmanship the last 3 years. She has placed either GC in her age group or RC (the first year she showed) 

Dave, you'd be fighting a losing battle trying to change the course of 4H. It started going down this path when I was in 4H 35 years ago! Now, you walk thru the steer barn and all you see are signs with Farm Name Show Steers all over the place. My poor girl is going to be out of place with her commercial herd steers and no fancy sign. Horses have been that way forever! Use to be if you didn't have silver on your tack, you didn't stand a chance of getting higher than a red! Made my day when my mustang mare beat out the usual show GC Reg QH mare one day. LOL


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## NubianFan

Dave is right though, it shouldn't be the way it is. I remember when my daughter wanted to show a goat I asked how much they went for and they said oh 300 or 400 for a kid is the absolute lowest you will find one.... I was thinking I am not made of money what are these people talking about! so I said I" have seen goats a lot cheaper than that" and they laughed at me and said "you won't have any chance of winning...." Well so WHAT should it be about the kids winning??, every single kid can't win anyway, I thought they were supposed to be teaching them good sportsmanship and animal husbandry and responsibility and I thought the kids were supposed to ENJOY 4-H. Not worry about having enough money to buy the correct thing to win. Or be laughed at because they don't. 
We also got sour grapes when my daughters three red star hens took first place at the 4-H chicken show. they said hers shouldn't have won. Well they were poultry chain chickens, they all got exactly the same kind of chicks. We poured the feed to them and my daughter studied the videos on how to pick a proper trio of chickens. Then she went on youtube and researched how to wash them and prepare them for show. We spent a whole afternoon selecting and washing chickens. she put the research and work into and I feel she should have won. Hers were the only chickens that shined from her taking the time to wash them.


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## kccjer

I've been told the same thing when we looked for a wether one year. Prices were 300 or more and I stated flat out that we couldn't afford that. Was told....by the seller...that I must not want my daughter to win then. Well....no...I'm NOT buying my daughter a ribbon. Surprisingly, all my cheap little wethers that we have raised here have all gotten praise from the judges for conformation...just don't have enough finish on them. And, you're absolutely right...we can all buy those 1500 show goats, but someone has to lose! They can't all be winners! It is pretty sad any more.


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## kccjer

justspry said:


> Well it is all about competition and that's the intent but for someone who have never shown before its nice to be taught how to do so and not thrown in sink or swim  He understands he has to work hard and he might not win but he has to know how to work


It didn't use to be. Part of showmanship was judged on whether or not you helped the person in front of you. I would have had my bottom beat if I had walked up behind a steer that wasn't moving and NOT helped. And it counted OFF in your showmanship class! Now, though...you walk up there and either go around or stand there until the ring steward can get there. I actually witnessed a young girl IN Showmanship...holding her own showstick! Wooo! HER DAD was showing her steer for her! And the judge placed her 1st!! I couldn't believe it. Now what does that tell the kids in the class with her that were fighting for control of their steers?


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## TDG-Farms

Hell we even give a good 4H discount for any of our does that end up in a 4Hers hands. Granted, you dont see many dairy goats in the 4h rings.


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## Scottyhorse

I choose to use my 11 year old Nigie doe in showmanship because at the regional fair there is a girl who has been showing since she was 5, and shows at TONS of shows AND goes to nationals and wins. So I need a well behaving goat  I got 6th out of 15 kids or so, and it was my second time showing. I was in the same class as her too. A farm near me wants me to go with them to shows, so I will get practice from handling their goats too.


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## kccjer

TDG-Farms said:


> Hell we even give a good 4H discount for any of our does that end up in a 4Hers hands. Granted, you dont see many dairy goats in the 4h rings.


Dave, I actually went to our Fair Board and got them to add some classes. We formerly had Market Goat (which translates to boer class out here) and Breeding Does and Angora Does. Try pitting a Dairy doe against a Boer doe with a Boer judge! Doesn't work. And, just for fun, let's add a ND in the mix. Guess which one is going to be dead last regardless of whether it meets breed standards better than the Boer? Our county fair now offers: Market Goat, Breeding Meat Doe (3 age groups), Breeding Dairy Doe (3 age groups), Miniature Doe (3 age groups) and Fiber Goats. Of course, it is still the same Boer judge who admits he doesn't know how to judge those other classes...wonder how he'd handle an actual fiber goat if we ever had any show?

Judges in non-breed classes (and this is cross-species) are suppose to judge based on breed characteristics of each animal. (Think Best of Show at Westminster Dog Show) It seldom happens. I see it more in our 4H horse show (because there are a few more non-standard breeds). I was SHOCKED when my daughter's 30 yr old Tbred gelding placed 4th in the aged gelding class...shocked. Old Cy doesn't conform to QH standards very well and can't compete with 4 and 5 yr olds. But she finally had a judge that judged on breed and took age into consideration. When she shows Jet (my arabian) in the halter class, we will expect dead last. Really don't expect an arabian to fare well against QH standards! She won't be able to show the arabian like you're suppose to show an arabian either. I don't know if the judges just aren't trained to do that or if they just don't care. I can just imagine the uproar if the arabian would happen to place above any of the high $ QH's!!

For the OP on this thread...you may see that in your lambs also. Out here if it isn't a black faced lamb, it doesn't place. Period. Again, learning experience this year. Look at what DOES place in your show and find something that matches that. For the fuzzy head....that will all need to be sheared off. Market lambs are traditionally shown with something like 1/4 inch of wool and head, etc should be sheared smooth also. If you can change clubs, do so. If not, ask if someone in that other club can help your son with his project. I find that many are happy to help if they are just asked. (there are a few that won't...but those are generally the high powered showers that expect to win every time...god forbid they help the competition) Your son will need to learn how to lead his lamb without a halter or collar. He will need to learn how to "brace" his lamb and how to set it up. All that takes some practice and a lot of patience.


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## Darlaj

Op does you club have showmanship practice? When we are abou 6 weeks out from fair we meet weekly with animals for showmanship practice, grooming tips etc. go over records blah blah


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## loggyacreslivestock

Reading this post really makes me sad. I am a former 4Her and now a leader and have felt that the traditional role for the 4H and FFA members has really gone away. I was hoping it was just in our area, but it seems as though it is nation wide. When I was growing up showing, we couldn't afford expensive animals, so my Dad always said...Learn to show well and win the showmanship class (which is judged separate from market). That shows that you are a premier showman regardless of how good your animal is. I won grand champion showman almost every year out of nearly a hundred kids. So that is what I would encourage your son to do as well.

Looking at the pics, the lamb doesn't look all that bad to me. Once it is shaved, you will be able to tell more. Give it BoSe for the pasterns, trim it's hooves- which can make them stand better for you. All lambs are wild like that at first. Just use a gentle approach and you will be fine. You and your son will have to work everyday with it. Tie it up like a previous poster said and stay with it. Tie it close to the wall and short. Just so it gets used to the halter. After a day or three of doing this for about 30 minutes each session, it should be easier to lead. Sheep are herd animals as well and it will do better if you can walk a goat with it. Usually lambs are raised in two's. After it is halter broken, then it will need to learn to be led by hand- no halter. And learn to brace. I will post some links on here about how to teach and learn this for you.

As far as fat- has it been wormed? I worm my market lambs once monthly while I have them- April to July. Feed less hay for less hay belly- a small handfull twice daily. Use show feed for proper muscling and excercise, excercise, excercise. Lambs need ran and walked. Short bursts of energy and lots of uphill work. We walk ours uphill for an hour daily at night, then the next day run them by chasing with a 4-wheeler about 300 feet, walking back and chasing again.

Standing them on a ramp while eating gives them a good loin and muscle down the top.

Good luck, and if I can help at all, pm me.


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## loggyacreslivestock

-there are several videos by purina to show fitting and bracing.






Just keep watching these and look for more - there are a lot on you tube.

Each area shaves differently- meaning how much and where it is left on, but pretty much they are all slick sheared.


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## OakHollowRanch

I'm sorry you are having a bad experience! Our 4-h club has its flaws, but over-all I think it is a great program. This is my sister's 3rd year showing dairy goats and her first year with a lamb. So far the lamb leader has already had several meetings and has been very helpful. I hope we can continue to learn!


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## justspry

Found out its not the lamb leader its the 4h leader in general ! So I called the corporate office and now everyone is doing their job !


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## CAjerseychick

Good luck with the lamb, I agree it she doesnt look that bad, we are thinking of starting our girl in 4H next with one of our goats......


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## BCG

kccjer said:


> Put her feeder up where she has to stand up to reach it. Wish I had a pic of how we did it. Give her a steep ramp to stand on so she has to stretch to reach. Get ahold of her, get a halter on her and WALK her every day. It's going to be a pain, but the more you do it, the easier it will get. What are you feeding now?


Please don't take this wrong, but feeding up is old school, for lack of better words. It is not recommended any more as it actually causes the hip/loin junction to break.

The lamb doesn't look bad to me, and we raise highly competitive club lambs. I think it is a pretty good 1st lamb project. Yes the front feet are toed out, but it's a market animal so it's not a big deal.

I have a hard time believing that a 100# lamb is fat. Unless it is genetically quick finishing. It may look fat because its so wooly. Did the very actually handle the lamb to determine it's fat cover? If not, you need to. Feel over the 12th & 13th rib (ribs farthest back from shoulder). If you gently rub over the rib, what does it feel like? If you feel the ribs and they feel like your knuckles....too skinny. Make a fist and feel across you're fingers between the knuckles. That is how a properly finished lambs rib should feel. If you can't feel the ribs without pressing in then its too fat.

I also would not recommend exercising the lamb until it reaches 115#+ unless it really is fat. When you do start exercise, run the lamb in sprints until it pants. This will build muscle and tone. Long walks/jogs will burn fat and tone lean muscle. Look at the difference between a sprinter and a long distance runner. They train totally different for different results. Sprinters are bulky and powerful. That's what you want to create.

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## BCG

kccjer said:


> If it were mine, here is what I would do. Get a halter on it and tie it up. Let it fight all it wants. Pet on it and rub on it and just plain mess with it the whole time it's tied up. Every day. Tie it up and have him sit out there and read to it. Once it figures out that fighting the rope isn't going to get it anywhere...it should settle down a little more. How old is your son? You show sheep without a halter or collar. You hang onto them with both hands...one over the back of their heads right behind the ears and the other hand under their chin. If your son is still pretty young (under 10) he can get away with showing with a halter. Older than that, a lot of judges will send them back out of the arena.


Good advise! Halter breaking is always first priority with a lamb. 

Also....saw you were feeding a flake if alfalfa and 2 cups of grain. That's kind of backwards.

Should be feeding 3-4% body weight of quality lamb grower and a large handful of alfalfa or grass. So if she's 100#, she should be getting 3-4# of grain a day. Usually 2 feedings of 1.5-2# each plus a large handful hay at each feeding. If you decide to follow this advise, work her grain up and hay down slowly to avoid making her sick.

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