# Please Critique :-) ~ udder photos added :-)



## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

The first side view photo (well it was the first before I added the buckskin) is a dry yearling (black) ~ she needs to be bred though she is getting a little chubby.

The second doe (now third side view ~ broken buckskin) is a yearling first freshener (edit ~ added udder photos). She has very bad teat placement but good attachment, MSL, nice open orifices and super soft udder texture.

The buckskin doe (first side view now) ~ also a dry yearling.

Thank you :hug: be super honest OK :hi5: I need to learn how to cull and how to decide who to keep. :wink:

PS Sorry for all the edits ~ still learning how to go about posting


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Please Critique *

1st doe... nice length and levelness, needs better brisket extension and rear leg angulation...her being "chubby" may be the reason her rear looks to need the angulation. I would definately try to trim her down before breeding.

2nd doe has a very nice dairy build...long and level with a sharpness to her withers and nice rear leg angulation she too could use a better extension of brisket.


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Please Critique  ~ added another one *

Thank you Liz  I seem to have several does who need better briskets. I think I may have to find a buck with a super brisket and then work at improving this trait over the next several years. Yes, I agree that I need to drop a bit of weight off the black doe.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Please Critique  ~ added another one *

I'm gonna try and hit the new one....

nice rear leg angulation
looks like she could be a bit steep in the rump but I think it could be the way she is standing... ???
needs better brisket 
nice long neck
... I know there is more but I am still learning....

I really like her! and the other 2 aswell! very pretty girls!


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Please Critique  ~ added another one *

Thank you Skyla. :wink: I appreciate your critique. I am still learning too. We are taking all three of these girls to a show this weekend along with a couple babies. In June we have our Linear Appraisal appointment so I hope that I can really get a good idea as to what goats I should retain and what ones I should sell. Also, when selling babies I want to learn if they should be sold as pet quality (if they are not good enough to be show quality) because I don't think it is right to sell them for more than "pet quality" if they aren't more than that. It is a slow process but each day I think I learn a little more and being able to post photos here and hear the good and bad is really great. :clap:


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Please Critique  ~ added another one *

I know what you mean! I love all the help too!

Good luck @ your show!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Please Critique  ~ added another one *

The buckskin does have a nice rear leg... brisket needs improved upon, as you had said though, getting a buck who has the qualities they need improved should definately add to their kids.


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks everybody :grouphug: I added udder photos so you can see those. Teat placement ... :sigh:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I think they're both BEAUTIFUL does! And that's a FF udder??! Other than the teats winging out a bit, it's AWESOME! I'd be proud to call those two does my own


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you Riley! :hug: You are so sweet. :stars:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Udder... If she had a higher, wider rear it may help with teat placement, how is her fore? Not bad at all for a FF...teat placement doesn't improve with each freshening though capacity will and the more capacity she gains you'll have a better idea as to how well she holds up with each freshening.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

You're welcome  They are so pretty!


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi Liz,

Her fore udder is very smooth, no pocket :clap: even when over filled. I forgot to photograph it when we were at the show this past weekend but her udder was really nice. She is the first FF that I have ever had who is this young. Our others were two year olds when they were FFs and their udders were much larger so I was worried that she didn't have a good udder. Of the other FFs in her class at the show she had the best width and capacity so I guess I should just be patient. Her mother won "Best in Show" so I guess I just need to give her some more time. Besides my oldest daughter loves her and has asked if she could be her goat from now on  Of course  

Thank you for all of your help and critiques. I really do appreciate them. We are very new to raising goats. I have SO SO SO much to learn. But it is all good and wonderful. Thank you! :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Chris... I am one who firmly believes that you really can't see a does potential udder until their 2nd freshening. Teat placement, yes but capacity and true form, no.... not until they've had a first lactation that will expand the tissues, and milking them through a lactation, even as a FF really helps improve teat size on most does, your young lady has the genetics behind her to have successive freshenings be improved each year and I see no reason why she shouldn't stay with you, teat placement can be corrected with her daughters by choosing a buck with that strength in his dam and grand dam.

Too often I hear of breeders not milking a FF simply because they are FF...And way too often do I see does up for sale after their FF, because the breeder simply doesn't like how their udder turned out...I may be one of the few that does have the luxury of keeping my goats as more a pet than a producer but I do like having does with very nice udders too and the 2 I currently have as a 2nd F and a 6th F...Have done nothing but improve with each freshening and I look forward every year to see the changes that each freshening brings.


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you Liz :hug: 

I really appreciate all of your advice. This doe is wonderful to milk so that is also a very nice thing. She has nice orifices and her udder is very pliable. 

I have made some mistakes with other purchases I have made and now I keep second guessing myself. Like the black yearling doe. She was very expensive but her mother is a champion and has a beautiful udder. I just am not sure about this doe. She has a lot of things that I'm not sure about; brisket, rear leg angulation, neck blending into withers, ... :roll: A friend of mine says I need to wait to she her FF udder which will be this fall if we breed her now (working on that :wink but I wonder if a great udder would really make up for all the other things? She is super long bodied but not really level in the rump either so I just don't know. She is chubby too so I am working on that and freshening will help that too. I have another doe that was a bit of an ugly duckling until she became a FF and the transformation was amazing. 

But, I don't have to rush to sell her. Our herd is still very manageable so I guess waiting is not really a big deal. Just second guessing myself I guess, especially after going to the show this past weekend. It was a four ring show for juniors and there were 23 does in the class. It was wonderful but both the dry yearlings were about mid pack in all four shows except each of them did place 5th under different judges in one show. I know that is good but ... I'm torn here. I'm not super competitive but part of me would like to have a doe that placed first. I feel guilty admiting that but it is true.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

When it comes to "breeding up" as far as getting that "perfect" goat that is 150% of the breed standard, I seriously don't feel it's possible....and when there are those who are a beautiful example of the breed with the "right" genetics and have all that it should have, there is still going to be a flaw somewhere that will eventually show up in the kids.... you have the udders, now working on briskets, toplines etc while keeping those udders or improving them will be the challenge. Unfortunately, it seems that unless you devote 100% of income and time in caring for and acquiring "top genetics" we simply have to deal with what we can and hope that our practices add to the breed.
Nothing wrong with wanting that 1st place ribbon but you can look at your 5th placing as 4 steps closer


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

You are absolutely right!  Thank you so much for talking to me here. I so appreciate it! :hug: :hi5:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Utterly Blessed Farm said:


> You are absolutely right!  Thank you so much for talking to me here. I so appreciate it! :hug: :hi5:


 :hug: NP! You are already quite a few steps ahead by being able to show, not many have the opportunity.... I would love to be able to show but lack of time as well as being a solo "goat farmer" makes it difficult to care for those left at home.
Getting your goats into shows and placing is a great feat... building off of what you learn is a job in itself and with the start you have, you can only go forward. :wink:


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you Liz :hug: 

It is pretty crazy when we go to shows, so far we don't have anyone to take care of all of the goats left at home so we only go to shows that are within a 3 hour drive and we just stay for the day only. Or if the show is closer we would comute back and forth. The show this past weekend was a junior 4 ring show on Saturday and 2 ring senior show. Then on Sunday 2 more senior shows. So we went for the day on Saturday and then I brought back all the juniors that night. My oldest daughter stayed at the show with friends and our senior goats. Then on Sunday I drove back down for the senior show. Last year we only went to one show and we took every goat we owned to the show even if they weren't showing. We have too many to do that now. :wink: We are working on getting a co-op group of goat owners who will take turns taking care of each other's goats in our area. There are quite a lot of 4H-ers here so that helps. If that were to work out I'd probably still take any does in milk and then just have someone take care of the babies and bucks. My husband is willing to feed any goats we leave at home but he doesn't want to milk.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Cinna looks SO good!!!

You should definently breed to a brisket buck though! You should check out my boy Jasper! He has an excellent brisket and got a grand champion at the show in chino!


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Laura,

Thank you for your compliments of Cinna. We are in the process of breeding her to one of our bucks so we are anticipating some beautiful little babies in the fall. However, Jasper is very nice. He did great in Chino. There were some beautiful bucks there. :lovey:


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Did you go to Chino??

Hes going back this weekend! 

Glad you found a nice buck to breed to Cinna! I never did hear back from you about how she did at her first show? I thought that because I didnt hear back you decided to keep her? Either way, im happy she looks so good!


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## Utterly Blessed Farm (Dec 21, 2011)

Oh, I would never do that. I gave you my word that she was yours to purchase. I even turned down a couple other people but when the six month mark came with no deposit I decided that you had changed your mind as that was our agreement date. That was almost a year ago and this is the first I've heard from you. I'm sorry if you thought I had gone back on my word. I am honest if nothing else.  

Yes I did go to Chino to pick up our buck from DesertNanny ~ that was a very long drive but so worth it. He is a beauty.

Good luck this weekend ~ drive safe. I'll keep you and your goaties wrapped in prayer. Hopefully it will be a bit cooler there. Yikes it is hot all of a sudden.

edit: spelling errors ~ yikes I need to learn how to proof read! :sigh:


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Im sorry  I was actually waiting to hear from you LOL. Funny that we were both waiting! Well, it worked out for the best I suposse!

I remember Laura(McCutchan) saying she heard you were going to Chino to get a buck! Darn, I wish I would of known! I bet you got a nice buck. I picked up a doe there and got to see at of Sharons nice animals. She even complimented Jasper and said he was a really nice buck....I nearly FAINTED lol. A breeder that nice, talking up about my buck! WOW. I do adore that boy!

Thanks so much! I hope we have as safe of a drive as we had last month. Email me sometime and we can talk! Id love to hear about your herd and maybe do business in the future. 
[email protected]


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