# Non-CAE Arthritis- have you used Adequan?



## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I have a 5 yr old full blood boer wether who is standing almost all night in the barn. (We have barn cam) When I come in the barn in the am he is limping. I'm suspicious he has arthritis. This started when weather turned cold. His knees are very creaking sounding. Have always been that way but starting to sound worse. I have him on meloxicam for the pain, which works. I also have him on oral pure MSM and oral pure glucosamine. But they don't seem to be helping him. My local large animal vet at university stated that glucosamine breaks down in the rumen so it's not effective taken that way for a goat. I've tested my whole herd in august for CAE. Negative. 

The vet is saying maybe to try Adequan. They've used it in horses and it wks very well for arthritis. But he's never used for a goat. So thought I'd ask you all if you've ever used this med. 

If you've successfully treated arthritis in your goats other ways please mention that too. Thank you so much for any help you can give. 

Tami


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

5 seems very young for such severe arthritis though!

Are you in an area where Lyme Disease is prevalent?

Is the goat overweight?

I know how well Adequan can work for arthritis in dogs (it's really super!) but have no experience with it in goats.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

We aren't in a Lyme area that I know of. I'm in Oregon 45 min SE of Portland. 

He is a little overweight. Could take off prob 15-20 lbs. but so far I'm not taking much off him. All he eats is hay!! It's crazy. And I can't get weight off him. I've wondered if his thyroid isn't right. He's not a active guy tho. Very laid back personality. 

I know i thought he's too young for this too! But can't figure out what it is!!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

He had UC in 2015. But this isn't UC. He's limping in am from pain


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I agree... five is really young to start arthritis. You might re-test him for CAE just to be sure. Have his joints been x-rayed?

I have a goat that got arthritis at ten but he wasn't nearly as bad as yours sounds. Mine had arthritis between his toes (confirmed by x-rays) and was visibly lame at a walk. I started him on Cosequin ASU and he began running without a limp and jumping into the truck bed again, so apparently goats _can_ absorb glucosamine and MSM through the rumen. I've never tried Adequan on a goat, but it worked wonders for a horse I had many years ago.

I agree with SaltyLove that your boy may have something going on besides plain arthritis.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I used Adequan on an alpaca but it was for a bad bladder infection. Cleared it right up and she had no problems.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have to agree as well.hea pretty young...have you taken his temp? Listen to his rumen? Chewing a cud?


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I haven't taken his temp. He is completely normal in every way other than limping in the mornings. Once he has pain med on board he is fine. So it is weird. We did CAE testing and all were normal. I don't think I would need to test again. I don't take my animals off our farm unless breeding and then I only take to a tested and cleared farm. I am very picky about that. We don't show. So really don't think I would really need to retest him. 

He does lay down when he has pain med on board off and on. But it isn't like he is laying down all the time lame. He is eating well and seems normal otherwise. So it is weird to me. Vet thought it was arthritis as it seems to be worse when it is colder and better when it is warmer.

He is pooping fine...rumen is working. We worked on his hooves today as he needed trimming. But our goats hooves are in great shape. We trim more often than needed probably.

I have not had him xrayed......I have thought about having that done and will have it done if nothing else seems to work. I have him on pure glucosamine and MSM separately dosing it to him in a herb ball. He loves those. But that doesn't seem to be helping. Maybe I am not giving him enough. Not sure.

Cosequin sounds interesting. I will look to see what is in it. I can't have him on stuff that has calcium carbonate and some glucosamines have that in it as a additive. Since he had UC I am very careful to keep him off too much calcium.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

> Cosequin sounds interesting. I will look to see what is in it. I can't have him on stuff that has calcium carbonate and some glucosamines have that in it as a additive. Since he had UC I am very careful to keep him off too much calcium.


Cosequin ASU does not contain calcium carbonate. However, your statement gets me to thinking--did you get your goat's stones tested to make sure they were calcium deposits and not phosphates? It's been discovered that *most* stones are caused by excessive phosphorus and/or magnesium, not calcium (although calcium deposits can occur). If your goat is getting an inadequate supply of calcium in his diet, it will not only make him more susceptible to stones, it will also prevent the uptake of other minerals since calcium helps facilitate their absorption. Mineral deficiencies can cause early joint break-down.

I hope you get to the bottom of it!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Damfino: I'm hoping we get to the bottom of this too. =) I am probably going to take him back to the univ hospital and have them xray him and recheck with xray on his bladder too while I am there. 

We are very careful with calcium. His hay is tested and really pretty balanced. So he should be getting enough calcium....

I've shared our story on goat spot so won't do that in detail again but we just went through UC with our wether summer of 2015. He had to have a cystotomy now he's doing fine. The university who did the surgery sees goats on a almost daily basis with this problem. The doctors all told me No GRAIN No ALFALFA ever. 

Yes his stones were definately tested and all were calcium carbonate.

I live in Oregon. Most if not all the stones the doctors take out of the goats here are calcium carbonate stones. I was told this by the doctors who see these male goats weekly for UC. These type of stones do not dissolve in apple cider vinegar or ammonium chloride, they told me this. My poor boy! He hated that stuff. I was giving it thinking it would help him. Everyone here was saying to give that to him. But I wasn't educated on stones and which ones actually dissolve.

The dr's at the large animal vet Univ school educated us. They told us that struvite stones will dissolve. But those stones are not seen typically in Oregon or the west coast. Those are typically seen back east. So I suppose it matters where you live if that will wk for dissolving yr goats stones. 

A vet snipped my goats pizzle too but nothing happened. He had to have surgery and that ultimately is what helped him. He had over 20 stones! So we've learned a lot! I only buy tested hay and that way I know what the cal/phos ratio is. My vet looks at the hay tests and tells me which one to buy. As well as good goat mineral. And I give the boys kelp meal too. 

Tami


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm glad you know what caused the stones! Sounds like you're on top of this. I'd have the joints x-rayed to make sure it is arthritis and not some other kind of inflammation and proceed from there. In any case, I looked at the label and there is no calcium carbonate or any other type of calcium listed in Cosequin ASU. I can't vouch for the other types of Cosequin.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Well I'm still learning so much!!!!

Thank you for checking its ingredients for me! That's great to know! I plan to take him to the university to have a recheck for his UC(follow up) so they can X-ray him then too. 
It's so much cheaper to do all the diagnostic stuff there!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

In regards to re-testing for CAE. Since it is a fairly low cost option, I would do it. Labs make mistakes all the time, mix up samples or report the wrong result. I never trust a one time test. Unless he has tested negative in years past as well.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

He has always been negative. I'm going to take him down to the University Large Animal hospital to have him rechecked.....he had UC in 2015 and had surgery. He is a little over due for his recheck exam. I will have them do xrays on his legs and feet while we are there.....and depending what that shows may have them test him for CAE.  My whole herd was neg in Aug....as in previous years. So I doubt that is what this is. But it is worth checking into if needed. Going to have them scan him for stones and have a full physical too. So much cheaper to do this through the University and they have great xray and scans available there....CT....etc they have it all! I know probably not all people have had good experiences there but we have had great doctors who were just amazing to deal with!

So hoping to get a appt to go down later next week.....will try to remember to post what his results are. I would think if he needs to go on Adequan we can do that during that visit too. Meds tend to be much cheaper through the university too. They see a ton of goats....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

How long has he been off of ammonium chloride? You might have them run a bone density test. AC keeps calcium from sticking to some molecules but, it can also keep calcium from getting to the bones. 
By the way, we are in an area where Lyme disease isn't huge but does occur. My husband's cousin caught it from a seed tick on her horse. If you have black tail deer or deer mice in the area, it is a possibility.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Wow I didn't know that about lyme Jill. Thank you! And thank you about the info on bone density testing and AC. I haven't given him AC since his bout with UC. And not sure he even had much then. I gave him part of a acid pack at that time and was giving him ACV. I may have been giving him AC regularly I can't remember. But he hasn't had any since.

I will ask them about bone density testing. I plan to do as much testing as they think necessary because we obviously need to know what is going on with him. He still stands alot at night. But then finally does lay down by am. It is strange and not like him to do that.

I'm hoping to drive him down there this week. He hates the truck so I am not looking forward to the trip, although I know it needs to happen. =)

Thanks again Jill...appreciate all the advice.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

So they did a Ct scan. Found mild arthritis in front knees and back hocks. They found other stuff tho. I plan to start new thread on that when I get time. Just updating on arthritis. He has one more adequan shot then will know how it's wking for the arthritis.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hope it works for him.


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## islandpets (Jan 1, 2015)

i am reading your posts with great interest as i am dealing with a 10 yr old girl with terribly crunchy front knee, and now with stomach ulcers brought on by long term NSAIDs for the arthiritis!  Also congrats on the success with the UC. It brings back painful memories of my poor wether sheep, who got stones at 1 yr old, had 2 catheterisations in a month (again we had a university hospital near us at the time thank god) and was then on that disgusting tasting ammonium chloride for 2 years until he succumbed again (this time we had no way of getting him help being on a remote island now). :_( Please keep us informed on the arthiritis treatment response x


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about your boy! I was just told today by Univ vet that having them on ammonium chloride is best with few days on then few days off. Their bodies adjust to it and adapt ph if they stay on it long term without breaks. So I'm going to try that with a different product called bio-Chlor.

But talking about the adequan...he has one more dose next wk. we then will watch him to see how he's doing. I'm weaning him off of meloxicam and gabapentin. I was told by Univ vet that gabapentin doesn't cause issues like meloxicam does potentially with liver issues. We are running his blood next wk for liver values. Hoping he's ok. But he can be on gabapentin if needed for pain. I'm weaning him off the pain meds tho. And I think he is doing pretty well. Will see.

Also I belong to a holistic goat group on yahoo. They were just talking about how boron is important for joints and helps with creaky joints. Apparently I'm pat Colby's natural goat health book she states boron is good for helping with creaky joints. They shared a list of high boron foods. Raisins are very high. So I am starting to feed him some raisins. Here is the list:
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/boron/toolboxes/2.htm

Apparently this is what pat Colby's book states:
Using borax as a supplement for goats comes from Pat Coleby's *Natural
> Goat Care*. She uses it for creaking joints in goats, "as much borax as
> can adhere to the tip of a finger can be fed daily," (page 211 in the first
> edition.)

That was shared with us by someone in the group so I can't say it works. 
I wish you the best. It's not fun when they don't feel well.

Tami


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## Noah's oak (11 mo ago)

Buck Naked Boers said:


> I'm so sorry to hear about your boy! I was just told today by Univ vet that having them on ammonium chloride is best with few days on then few days off. Their bodies adjust to it and adapt ph if they stay on it long term without breaks. So I'm going to try that with a different product called bio-Chlor.
> 
> But talking about the adequan...he has one more dose next wk. we then will watch him to see how he's doing. I'm weaning him off of meloxicam and gabapentin. I was told by Univ vet that gabapentin doesn't cause issues like meloxicam does potentially with liver issues. We are running his blood next wk for liver values. Hoping he's ok. But he can be on gabapentin if needed for pain. I'm weaning him off the pain meds tho. And I think he is doing pretty well. Will see.
> 
> ...


Hi Tami, I'm in Eugene and we've lost our local vet to retirement. My Nigerian doe is 12 and has an arthritic knee. I'm giving glucosamine and did notice an improvement in being able to straighten leg after laying down. However, it's not getting any better for sure. My only option will be OSU. Did you have any luck dealing with this in your goat?


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