# Debunking myths



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

So for a small business project I am working on, I would love to hear about certain goat raising "myths" that you all have debunked (the usual, like "free choice baking soda").

If anyone has personal myths, that's ok too. It does not have to apply to everyone. Like for me, I would say that Replamin gel was not all it was talked up to be and didn't really help my problems! But it has for others!

Get the gist?

Good, let's see how many we can get!

:ty:


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Copper bolus has to be given on an empty stomach


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Debunked: Herbs don't work. Specifically parasite formulas.

They saved my herd and continue to work well.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Goats eat everything. Lol who came up with that one


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

All bucks stink so bad you must wear different clothes around them. So far this his not been the case for me! Fingers crossed it continues!(pray)


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Goat milk tastes goaty. Were we surprised it doesn’t at all! Only the store bought variety does.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

How every time you chemically deworm, it creates resistance. Nope!! Only if you don’t do it right


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

That all goats are escape artists. Now I know this is _not_ the case for a lot of people, but I can't imagine my goats jumping a fence, pushing under fences, or figuring out the latches on gates. The other day I had just left the goat pen when I heard the gate behind me. Apparently I hadn't shut the gate right. and Bella started using the gate to scratch her leg and incidentally pulled it open. She had absolutely no idea what she had done, and stood their continuing to itch her leg.

It's funny because everyone I talked to who had goats at one point and didn't anymore said that they couldn't keep their goats in, and all the breeders that I visited never had any trouble.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> How every time you chemically deworm, it creates resistance. Nope!! Only if you don't do it right


Hard to do it right but I agree!

Thanks all who commented so far!!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Goats eat everything. Lol who came up with that one


Would steele count as everything?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

DE is great for worming.....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Bucks/weathers don't need alfalfa


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

We don't need to get any kind of emergency medicines, because the vet can always run out and give us some (ya right!)


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

You should deworm on a schedule. I’m not talking about herbal dewormers!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Goats are fine (in warm climates) with only trees for shelter. Seriously?


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Goats know which plants are safe and will avoid the poisonous ones.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Bucks/weathers don't need alfalfa


Yeah, and too much calcium can cause UC.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Just because a goat has a full rumen does not mean that they are overweight! They can have a full rumen but be underweight with poor body condition.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

You should never feed grain to bucks.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Just reading through these makes my head hurt......... like a FB page.......


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

A doe in production dairy cant be in the same condition as a show goat


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Copper bolus has to be given on an empty stomach


How did you debunk this?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Ranger1 said:


> How did you debunk this?


Simply that, when we give copper boluses on non-empty stomachs, they still work! Simply trial and error. Just as, when we open them up instead of using the bolus capsule, they still work!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Ranger1 said:


> How did you debunk this?


http://goatspots.com/articles/copper/


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Ooh myths...I don't know where to start! I had a lot of trouble with some of our traditional goat-keeping 'tips' when I was a beginner...though I think these would not be that prevalent in the US/UK.

1) after getting a doe bred you must hold up her hind legs and slap her behind several times(so the 'stuff goes down'!!)

2) you can't feed or give water to a doe 24 hours after breeding...and she must be tied up so snug that she cannot sit

3) immediately after birth, the placenta has to be buried or else the doe will eat it and go mad!!

3) don't give grain to a milking goat..her milk will dry up

5) goats can't have hay...only green grass and leaves

6) you must give the same dewormer every three months....
I could go on all day but I will stop now lol


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Note: I actually believed some of these thinking the experienced people know best..but when doing the first two tips, my doe (obviously) didn't take after two breedings....finally when I just left a buck with her in heat...she had twins!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Wow those are some strange ones!


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Lol...they are rather funny but sometimes quite harmful for beginners...like the 'dont give water for 24 hours rule'...my poor doe was panting with heat and I ended up giving her water within 5 hours


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Those are just wicked weird....... head spinning again.....(doh)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Pretty much anything that says, "If you do 'such-and-such' you'll get more does than bucks." 

I'm sure dairy breeders the world over have tried every single wives' tale under the sun to tip the scale toward doelings and I haven't heard of even one who found the magic formula.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Damfino said:


> Pretty much anything that says, "If you do 'such-and-such' you'll get more does than bucks."
> 
> I'm sure dairy breeders the world over have tried every single wives' tale under the sun to tip the scale toward doelings and I haven't heard of even one who found the magic formula.


What about the acv in water though? I find it really doubtful but some people swear by it....


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Aasiya said:


> What about the acv in water though? I find it really doubtful but some people swear by it....


ACV in water as something beneficial or for breeding genders? It is healthy, but I've never heard that it can cause more of a certain gender of kid!!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Bucks/weathers don't need alfalfa





MadHouse said:


> Yeah, and too much calcium can cause UC.


Let's please not be too hasty to call some of these "myths"! A wether I sold last year ended up with UC this past April, most likely from too much calcium in the water. Although too much phosphorus is usually the culprit, too much calcium can also cause UC. Too much of anything usually produces bad results.

As for alfalfa, I believe it is usually safe for bucks (they may even require it) but it _can_ actually be bad for wethers. My wether Sputnik was actually deformed in the legs by getting alfalfa during his 2-year-old growth spurt. Two other wethers I sold were similarly deformed at a critical juncture in their development and I'm convinced it's because the owner fed them too much alfalfa. In our area I no longer recommend feeding alfalfa to wethers in general (I used to recommend it according to popular opinion until I personally saw bad results. Not only is there too much calcium, but with their slower metabolisms, wethers should not have so much sugar in their diets unless they are being exercised regularly and hard. It sets them up for a lifetime of obesity. So for wethers I say alfalfa is not only almost never necessary, but it may even be detrimental (at least where I live).


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> ACV in water as something beneficial or for breeding genders? It is healthy, but I've never heard that it can cause more of a certain gender of kid!!





Aasiya said:


> What about the acv in water though? I find it really doubtful but some people swear by it....


I've heard that one and I think those people are full of it. Lots of people put ACV in their water all the time (it's great for preventing algae!) but they still have buck years. I've also heard of it as a preventive for UC, but to prevent UC you'd have to add so much ACV to the water the goats would never touch it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Damfino said:


> Let's please not be too hasty to call some of these "myths"! A wether I sold last year ended up with UC this past April, most likely from too much calcium in the water. Although too much phosphorus is usually the culprit, too much calcium can also cause UC. Too much of anything usually produces bad results.
> 
> As for alfalfa, I believe it is usually safe for bucks (they may even require it) but it _can_ actually be bad for wethers. My wether Sputnik was actually deformed in the legs by getting alfalfa during his 2-year-old growth spurt. Two other wethers I sold were similarly deformed at a critical juncture in their development and I'm convinced it's because the owner fed them too much alfalfa. In our area I no longer recommend feeding alfalfa to wethers in general (I used to recommend it according to popular opinion until I personally saw bad results. Not only is there too much calcium, but with their slower metabolisms, wethers should not have so much sugar in their diets unless they are being exercised regularly and hard. It sets them up for a lifetime of obesity. So for wethers I say alfalfa is not only almost never necessary, but it may even be detrimental (at least where I live).


Honestly those two statements in the quote you mentioned are SO subjective. Too much calcium can cause UC, too much phosphorus can cause UC. It's all about the balance.

Sometimes alfalfa fits into the diet of wethers and bucks, and sometimes it doesn't!!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Damfino said:


> I've heard that one and I think those people are full of it. Lots of people put ACV in their water all the time (it's great for preventing algae!) but they still have buck years. I've also heard of it as a preventive for UC, but to prevent UC you'd have to add so much ACV to the water the goats would never touch it.


I like to add ACV to water because I think mine like the taste of it  hehe!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Damfino said:


> Let's please not be too hasty to call some of these "myths"! A wether I sold last year ended up with UC this past April, most likely from too much calcium in the water. Although too much phosphorus is usually the culprit, too much calcium can also cause UC. Too much of anything usually produces bad results.
> 
> As for alfalfa, I believe it is usually safe for bucks (they may even require it) but it _can_ actually be bad for wethers. My wether Sputnik was actually deformed in the legs by getting alfalfa during his 2-year-old growth spurt. Two other wethers I sold were similarly deformed at a critical juncture in their development and I'm convinced it's because the owner fed them too much alfalfa. In our area I no longer recommend feeding alfalfa to wethers in general (I used to recommend it according to popular opinion until I personally saw bad results. Not only is there too much calcium, but with their slower metabolisms, wethers should not have so much sugar in their diets unless they are being exercised regularly and hard. It sets them up for a lifetime of obesity. So for wethers I say alfalfa is not only almost never necessary, but it may even be detrimental (at least where I live).


You are correct! I believe it was buck naked Boers who had a wether with UC, had it tested (or whatever they do to it) and it was from too calcium. 
And the only proven way I know of to better the odds of kids sex is want doe kids and your gonna get buck kids. Want buck kids and you'll get more doe kids lol although I haven't cared one way or the other the last 5 years or so and I've had more doe kids but a huge flying leap lol


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> You are correct! I believe it was buck naked Boers who had a wether with UC, had it tested (or whatever they do to it) and it was from too calcium.
> And the only proven way I know of to better the odds of kids sex is want doe kids and your gonna get buck kids. Want buck kids and you'll get more doe kids lol although I haven't cared one way or the other the last 5 years or so and I've had more doe kids but a huge flying leap lol


I am actually way more cautious about calcium UC than I am about phosphorous UC for my wethers.

They have hard well water (though I do have a carbon filter). But I have tirelessly balanced the diet around it and others need to remember to do the same, it is not just phosphorus that is the problem!!!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Honestly those two statements in the quote you mentioned are SO subjective. Too much calcium can cause UC, too much phosphorus can cause UC. It's all about the balance.
> 
> Sometimes alfalfa fits into the diet of wethers and bucks, and sometimes it doesn't!!


That's why the calcium and alfalfa statements can't really qualify as "myths". Myths are more like, "Feed spunk-water at midnight on the crossroads during a full moon to make your doe have triplets." It seems like I see a few of those threads on these forums every breeding season when people are talking about getting more does, or increasing the odds of polled kids.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I like to add ACV to water because I think mine like the taste of it  hehe!!


All things in moderation though. If you added enough ACV to change the pH of the urine, it would no longer qualify as "water" and I guarantee your goats wouldn't like the taste any more!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Aasiya said:


> Ooh myths...I don't know where to start! I had a lot of trouble with some of our traditional goat-keeping 'tips' when I was a beginner...though I think these would not be that prevalent in the US/UK.
> 
> 1) after getting a doe bred you must hold up her hind legs and slap her behind several times(so the 'stuff goes down'!!)
> 
> ...


^ Now THESE are what I call "myths"!!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I like these " myths"
You dont have to worry about does breeding till they are 8 months. 
Well wild goats havent died without humans helping them. 
Its a goat, just turn it loose in the pasture. It will take care of itself. 
Oh a goat will kidd without any help. 
You can keep.bucks with does, they do that in the wild. 
You dont feed goats, they will eat the same as horses.
Just go to the auction, you can get all kinds of good goats, the auction house has a vet that checks the goats.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

21goaties said:


> http://goatspots.com/articles/copper/


That article seems to support giving copper on an empty stomach, not debunk.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Damfino said:


> I've heard that one and I think those people are full of it. Lots of people put ACV in their water all the time (it's great for preventing algae!) but they still have buck years. I've also heard of it as a preventive for UC, but to prevent UC you'd have to add so much ACV to the water the goats would never touch it.


Thought so!...it sounds like baloney



NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> ACV in water as something beneficial or for breeding genders? It is healthy, but I've never heard that it can cause more of a certain gender of kid!!


For getting doe kids!


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> I like these " myths"
> You dont have to worry about does breeding till they are 8 months.
> Well wild goats havent died without humans helping them.
> Its a goat, just turn it loose in the pasture. It will take care of itself.
> ...


I so hate the 'wild goat would....' comment...for heaven's sake, these arent wild goats! We have domesticated them! Recently someone was telling me to leave my buckling intact to breed with his mom and sister 'cause that's what wild goats do'.....seriously


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Ranger1 said:


> That article seems to support giving copper on an empty stomach, not debunk.


I don't see anything in it that says to give on an empty stomach. It just shows xrays taken of the rumen after the goat was fed (not bolused) copper oxide particles. 
But I do know that we don't give them on an empty stomach and we have seen results. 

There's also these pages:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19945224/

https://thriftyhomesteader.com/goats-and-copper-deficiency/

So basically, a combination of reading the above pages, reading the "goat experts" advice/knowledge on here, and personal experience is what made me decide that giving on an empty stomach is not required.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Damfino said:


> As for alfalfa, I believe it is usually safe for bucks (they may even require it) but it _can_ actually be bad for wethers.


I guess it might be better to have said, "No alfalfa to the boys, ever" 
while a high rate of bucks and wethers do need the calcium, there are those few who actually build calcium stones over the phos. stones. These are rare cases. Sad thing is we wont know until there is a problem with UC and stones are tested. 
Most issues can be avoided by keeping balance. I have read of calcium build up due to being feed a high % calcium diet causing bone issue and arthritis so yes, we need to know the calcium in our water and other food sources to know how much alfalfa, if any, to feed. I would not say NO alfalfa for wether across the board, as I think that is not any better than saying alfalfa for all. Balance is key.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Damfino said:


> Let's please not be too hasty to call some of these "myths"! A wether I sold last year ended up with UC this past April, most likely from too much calcium in the water. Although too much phosphorus is usually the culprit, too much calcium can also cause UC. Too much of anything usually produces bad results.
> 
> As for alfalfa, I believe it is usually safe for bucks (they may even require it) but it _can_ actually be bad for wethers. My wether Sputnik was actually deformed in the legs by getting alfalfa during his 2-year-old growth spurt. Two other wethers I sold were similarly deformed at a critical juncture in their development and I'm convinced it's because the owner fed them too much alfalfa. In our area I no longer recommend feeding alfalfa to wethers in general (I used to recommend it according to popular opinion until I personally saw bad results. Not only is there too much calcium, but with their slower metabolisms, wethers should not have so much sugar in their diets unless they are being exercised regularly and hard. It sets them up for a lifetime of obesity. So for wethers I say alfalfa is not only almost never necessary, but it may even be detrimental (at least where I live).


Ok, so maybe what we need to do is look at how some of these myths are created. I am probably a good example. The truth is, I know nothing about UC from my own experience. But I own male goats, and so I was and am worried and need to learn about this. I had originally read, too much calcium was one of the things that can cause it. On TGS is then was told, that is old thinking, it is the opposite. 
So on this thread I repeated that. Still knowing nothing.
I think myths are created by repeating things we hear without backup of personal experience.
@Damfino , I am glad that this came up, because otherwise you might not have told this incident.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

To me, this is the biggest myth

Goats are a profitable, money making investment!

Oh and if you have a goat, you won't need to mow your grass ever again. Part of the profit you know. Think of how much you'll save on mowing the lawn!


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Morning Star Farm said:


> To me, this is the biggest myth
> 
> Goats are a profitable, money making investment!
> 
> Oh and if you have a goat, you won't need to mow your grass ever again. Part of the profit you know. Think of how much you'll save on mowing the lawn!


Lol! I bet most people fall for that one...I know I did! By a year I was like, screw profit these are my pets

On the other hand, done right, many people do make alot from their herds


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Damfino said:


> All things in moderation though. If you added enough ACV to change the pH of the urine, it would no longer qualify as "water" and I guarantee your goats wouldn't like the taste any more!


Lol, I believe I use a small enough splash that it's only in my imagination that my goats prefer it to their regular water !!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Lol, I believe I use a small enough splash that it's only in my imagination that my goats prefer it to their regular water !!


I also put a small splash of AC in the water buckets. Now it's summer, and I fill the buckets with the hose outside. The goats come and look of course, and every time someone licks the straight vinegar from the buckets that haven't been filled yet! It must be good tasting to them!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Already seeing the African/Swiss goat bias here. 
You guys can't lump them together as the same type of goats. It just creates chaos. 

My bucks are running with my does and kids. I don't have to worry about them breeding until October.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Must be such a relief to have the Swiss breeds....my goats(black Bengal X Nubian) are also year rounders so everytime the buck escapes it's a headache:hide:


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Adding to Goathiker's including people who think breeding this goats year-round will be easy.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

21goaties said:


> I don't see anything in it that says to give on an empty stomach. It just shows xrays taken of the rumen after the goat was fed (not bolused) copper oxide particles.
> But I do know that we don't give them on an empty stomach and we have seen results.
> 
> There's also these pages:
> ...


That original link said to give the copper in as little an amount of marshmallow as possible, to better get the copper to sink down into the rumen and stay. It doesn't say anything else about empty stomachs, but just based on that seems to indicate that it SHOULD be given without food if possible. 
I didn't read these other two links.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Ooo, I've got a myth! That you can't give livestock guardian dogs any affection or they won't bond to the livestock.

I can't even understand how that ever worked.


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## Makenna (Aug 16, 2019)

Myth: that goats are "grass-cutters" and will clear out yards. Goats eat a bit of grass but they won't clear a large area


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Makenna said:


> Myth: that goats are "grass-cutters" and will clear out yards. Goats eat a bit of grass but they won't clear a large area


I'm really happy no one gave that memo to my goats. I actually put hot fence up every year to get my 100' clearance around the house for fire danger. Do goats stand there and just work from one end to the next eating grass like sheep, cows or horses? That they defiantly do not they are always moving around eating here and there but keep them in the same spot long enough and don't let them fill up on hay and you'll get some "grass cutters".
I always laugh while looking out the window of mine grazing when I see people say they won't eat grass lol


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Myth- culling is always bad 

Sometimes its for the best and no culling doesn't necessarily mean slaughter. When working at the goat dairy we had one doe who just recently freshened who was very stressed out in the milking parlor and the large setting. How is forcing an animal to live in an environment that stresses it out fair?


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

Aasiya said:


> Recently someone was telling me to leave my buckling intact to breed with his mom and sister 'cause that's what wild goats do'.....seriously


usually when people tell me stuff like that, I just nod my head and agree, then when I drive off bang my head against the steering wheel lol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

For sale, goat hay. (Aka last years garbage mold infested hay)

The idea that goats should settle for garbage hay is ridiculous. I have had eyes roll at me when I turn down garbage hay.


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## Aasiya (Apr 30, 2020)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> usually when people tell me stuff like that, I just nod my head and agree, then when I drive off bang my head against the steering wheel lol


Lol! I do the same, especially since if I even try to explain politely they will treat me like a young know-it-all....


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

happybleats said:


> For sale, goat hay. (Aka last years garbage mold infested hay)
> 
> The idea that goats should settle for garbage hay is ridiculous. I have had eyes roll at me when I turn down garbage hay.


Absolutely! You have to say you want horse hay or even cattle hay. They are almost always better. Can't even count how many ads I have seen for the sorriest looking hay rotting in a field, that says, Great Goat Hay!


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