# Toxemia - ugh!



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I haven't been on in a while! Between starting a new job, husband being on vacation and trying to get the barn done I've had little time to get on the internet.

Unfortunately, we have a doe with toxemia  She is a first time Boer doe, not due until 12/30, so 3 weeks away. She's a smaller framed doe, short bodied, carries high and wide and is staining/can't control her bladder and looks like either large twins or most likely triplets.

She's been eating her grain well (2lbs a day divided into 2 feedings), and we give alfalfa hay along with grass/mix hay, and they have a protein tub. 
Today I noticed she was walking a little off, weaker on her hind end, had a tired look in her eyes but was happy when I brought out animal crackers and some bread.

Ketones were very high which did surprise me.
We're not new to toxemia, but she's kind of a different case. Normally if we have them test positive for ketones, they are off of feed or picking at feed and not much appetite. She seems to have a really good appetite, and loves her hay as well. 
Also - we have started her on Dyne 2x a day 20cc and she loves that. I just suspected she would start having issues and hoped the Dyne would help.

After she ate her dinner I made a drench - blended cream corn/canned pumpkin/molasses gave 200cc of that with 20cc Dextrose, 20cc Propylene Glycol and 20cc Calcium Gluconate. 
She ate 2/3 of it out of the bowl! Never had a doe do that before, but she liked it.

The drench recipe I am hoping we can use on her is one a friend made that calls for blended cream corn/pumpkin mixed with milk replacer and given every 6 hours, but debating Dextrose AND propylene glycol 2x a day since PG is so hard on them. 
If this doesn't work I have another that has a lot of natural veggies/fruits/etc.

BUT...my concern is this. If ketones come down and she seems to feel better - today she was unsteady on her back legs and had that tired look in her eyes. SO if that improves do I continue until it's safe to induce.... or worry about capacity issues and it causing too much strain on her organs? Ugh. 3 weeks is a long time. 2 weeks is a long time. If we induce to kid a week early that would pretty much be Christmas eve.

I don't have any pics or video from today, but here is one that she is in from 2 days ago. She is the smaller traditional doe with the stained rear end I think she starts to show up about 44 seconds in.





BTW, husband just came in from giving her more of the cream corn/pumpkin/molasses mixed with 1oz. of Power Punch and he said she ate most of it from the bowl. What a silly girl!


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## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

It sounds sounds to me that you noticed it right in time! There is a fine line between the limping and them going off feed, which seems to be down hill from there, and it’s key to catch it fast.
If her levels go down then it shouldn’t be any more harsh on her organs then a normal pregnancy. It’s when those ketone levels are high that it’s hard on them. So I would stick with it until you can get her to a safe point. 
Supposedly if you can get the ketone levels down you can start to wean them off. With Xena last year I did back off basically main streaming her treatment to her but I did still give her her dose, if I remember morning and night. I didn’t want her to fall back again.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Once ketone are down its a good idea to do a daily maintenance dose of one of your method or 60 cc of a 50/50 molasses and water drench. I would also give some calcium..I prefer a carrot and celery juice when things are not in crisis..CMPK if you think more aggressive treatment is needed..which doesn't sound like it..but the extra calcium will be helpful these last few weeks. Aim for 2 each of carrots and celery..juice and drench once a day. If no juicer..blend super well with water or electrolytes. 
Good job catching things quick!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much! You guys are awesome. I'm at work on break and waiting to hear how her ketones are this morning. I'm praying this goes smoothly. We've been excited to see what she has as the buck we had can throw color and her sire is an ennobled Red dappled buck.
That red paint in the video is due the same day and she is huge! She's starting to slow down with the weight. She had a single in January and looks like a whole herd this time!

I'll update this evening but sure praying we can keep treatment minimal with the drench especially since she seems to really like it.
I spent $150 getting stuff at tsc last night 'just in case' if I have to move towards Lauren Greens drench.

I work at our local grocery filling online orders so I'm hoping to find cream corn, otherwise I'll have to figure something out. I stopped at a grocery near TSC and they were sold out.


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## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

I think the cream corn is basically used because of the corn and also that it's not these whole kernels trying to shove down a goat. I know I'll usually get some wet COB to give to them because it's has the corn in it. But if you can't find cream corn and absolutely want to try it you can find a recipe online. I did a real fast search and found this

https://www.spendwithpennies.com/homemade-creamed-corn/
But I wonder if you just got a can of corn and just blended it if it would basically do just as good. I honestly do not know, I've only ever had a few cases. With Oreo just simply giving the COB fixed her up, with Xena I did the magic with added dark beer and that seemed to keep her stable but it was the dyne that seemed to get her over that hump and on the mend.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

your doe has Ketosis not pregnancy toxemia.
Pregnancy toxemia is caused by low blood sugar. commonly caused by the kids taking too much room reducing the amount of feed the doe can eat. resulting in low blood sugar.

Ketosis is caused by the doe using the fat she has to supply the nutritional needs of her kids in the final three weeks of pregnancy.burning the fat leaves ketones in the body to many ketones and down she goes.
to prevent ketones increase the exercise your goats gets every day. It isnt hard move the hay as far away from the night shed as you can. exercise burns ketones.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with everyone, good advice.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. I'm hoping we can get her ketones down and keep them down. As of lunch time she was at least down to small amount. But she was eating very little feed today, however, she still loves the drench and eats most of it on her own out of a bowl. My daughter is supposed to check again when they go to give her a drench to get her through the night. I know it can take 24 hours to see results, but figure it's best to check morning/evening so we know what is going on, especially with me working and not able to observe her around the clock. 

Pregnancy toxemia/ketosis is basically the same thing, and that's what everyone I know calls it. Either way it all requires the same thing - calories/carbs/energy. 
As for exercise, the girls have always been active, browsing/grazing during the day. Of course this time of year they generally slow down since there is less to browse, but they go out, browse, then lounge in the sun for the afternoon before coming back for late afternoon feed.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

HoosierShadow said:


> Pregnancy toxemia/ketosis is basically the same thing, and that's what everyone I know calls it. Either way it all requires the same thing - calories/carbs/energy.


I know that every one thinks it is the same thing. I have tried to change that thinking for several years. the symptoms are very similar but the correct treatment has some key differences.
with toxemia you need to separate the doe from the herd. remember the doe has low blood sugar so give her rest and reduce her stress. Quality high energy nutrition Is required

with Ketosis the difference is the presents of ketones. so the treatment difference is, you need to exercise your doe to burn the ketones. and feed quality high energy nutrition.
Cream corn i have not herd that one --- good idea

you can tell the difference (well most of the time) by how the symptoms are presented. Ketoses symptoms advance rapidly like over night fast.
Pregnancy toxemia can be detected coming for days before the crash.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Her ketones are still down. She looked really good yesterday, bright eyes, not doing much leg shifting. Today she was doing more leg shifting, but otherwise seems about the same. She's nibbling at her feed, but really wants the generic form of calf manna that we use. But with eating little feed I hope that the little bit of calf manna won't hurt anything.
She's not eating as much of the drench recipe on her own, but honestly I was surprised she'd eat any of it. Eating hay, and loves it when we bring out animal crackers.

We have a TSC protein bucket out but I honestly don't know if she is using it. I normally have a Goatlyx tub but forgot to order one and hoped the TSC bucket would be sufficient for now but definitely think Goatlyx is a better choice.

Here's a video yesterday of the girls when I brought out a bag of animal crackers. She's got such a huge belly, and so does our paint doe who looks like she has a whole herd in there. Watching her closely as well as she is starting to really slow down. The girls weren't as active today due to rain for part of the day, but did go and browse for a bit in the afternoon.

We're hoping the girls can stay in the new barn starting tomorrow night. The girls due at the end of the month can stay in their stalls at night, and see the other girls who can stay in the sleeping area. They'll all be out during the day. This way I can try to keep feed in front of this doe at night. Fingers crossed we can keep her going.

If anyone has any suggestions of something I can offer her along side her grain I'd be up for ideas.

December 12, 2020 - YouTube


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are doing all you can for her. 
Just keep up the good work. :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I have been super busy and haven't been able to get on and update! The doe has been doing great! Made a complete turn around and you'd never have guessed she had issues with toxemia. She is due on Wed, but we plan on inducing her and another doe (very heavy bred) this afternoon to kid tomorrow or tomorrow night (my days off so I can be here to assist).
She loves the drench and eats it out of the bowl. 
I thought I would share what we've been doing in case it helps someone else. 

1 can cream corn and 1 can pumpkin - blended smooth.

Morning & Night
- 6oz. corn/pumpkin mixture
5-10cc Molasses
10-15cc Dextrose
15cc Oral CMPK
30cc Power Punch
*** Night time I usually add in a little Fastrack probiotics

Lunch
6oz. corn/pumpkin mixture
30cc Dyne

Our other doe due the same day who is very heavy and has trouble walking, is doing good, but we started her on the corn/pumpkin mixture yesterday mixing with some Dyne to ensure she is eating enough and well, she loves this stuff as well.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks for posting! Sending good thoughts for a successful kidding and healthy kids!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Great news! Thanks for posting the recipe.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Thank you for the recipes, I’m going to add them to my kidding book for future reference. I think I’ll have to do half recipes for my little Nigies because they’d get as big as Thanksgiving Day floats on that many calories. LOL


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