# Mysterious Eye Problems—Can Anyone help?



## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi folks:
It's been a good while since I've posted here on The Goat Spot. Up until very recently, all 3 of my fainting goats,; Daisy, Dolly & Petunia (Tuna) have had no problems. They get regular 6 month vet visits along with all preventive vaccines. But now, Dolly, the smallest of the 3 has developed an eye problem that seems to be baffling my vet. About 6 weeks ago I started to notice that her left eye was looking swollen. The problem progressed for 3 or 4 days before I called the vet and she put her on a daily 4cc oral antibiotic regimen of ENROFLOXACIN. I have followed that process faithfully and after almost a month on the medicine, I've seen absolutely no decrease in swelling.

It is noteworthy that there are absolutely no other symptoms accompanying this eye issue. She eats aggressively, shows no pain reaction and often uses that side of her head to butt her sisters out of the food treat bucket. There is no discharge from the eye and she flinches when I make as if to poke it, showing her sight is alright.

Is there anyone out there who has ever experienced anything like this? I have to admit I'm bamboozled. Any help and/or advice will be greatly appreciated. These 3 are only 3 years old and all have remained healthy (until now, that is).

*BAD EYE*








*
EYE DIFFERENCES*









*GOOD EYE*









*EYE FROM ABOVE*


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

You need to go in and check all of the eyelid layers for stickers.... that looks like she has something in there or she may have cut it and it is infected. I've had quite a few get stiickers lodged sooooo far back in the eyelid. OUCH!!!!


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for the advice, Jess. The vet originally thought that there might be something causing an infection and prescribed the antibiotic to fight it. As I mentioned, Dolly shows absolutely no pain reflex from the swelling. She uses that side of her head to butt the other two out of the way quite regularly. Has your experience with 'stickers' reflected that kind of reaction or did your goats show pain sensitivity?


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Well the problem with stickers is depending on where it is located... she may or may not be in a lot of pain. My doe did have a watery eye though... then the eye turned cloudy and she lost her vision for awhile. But.... that was just from where the sticker was located. It wouldn't hurt to go in and thoroughly check the eye for debris.... all of the antibiotics you can give wouldn't help if the irritation was still in the eye. Have you been giving her terramycin in her eye? 

If there isn't anything IN the eye... I'd say that is an injury... maybe she got a branch or horn in the eye.  Hopefully in that case it will heal with time and not continue to get worse.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Mine sometimes get hay scratches, either right on the eyball or up under the lids, also we have foxtail rye weeds and those foxtails can work their way in till you can't even find them and become infected. Have you tried plain old Tetracycline eye goop?


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Haven't tried any eye compresses or drops. The vet suggested that if drops were to prove part of the solution then one would expect there to have been some kind of discharge from the eye as a symptom of the problem. Dolly has had no such discharge. We did have a lot of foxtail in their winter feed this year. Enough that I was concerned that some problems might result, but _(unless this eye thing is just such a problem)_ we have detected nothing. I am going to find a new feed provider before winter, that's for sure. I will be asking the vet about Tetracycline as well. All that said, do these photos look anything like what you have seen in your own goats, either scratches or stickers? The problem hasn't gotten any worse over the last weeks . . . it just hasn't improved.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It may be that.... it is from injury....you say... she uses that side to spar...she may be further damaging it.....could be that....she gotten hit really hard and it caused nerve damage..... being there is no pain.... drainage.... and it did not respond to antibiotics..... the nerves have no more feeling..... and the muscle that holds the eye skin in place.... may be permanently damaged... :hug:


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks Pam. That is a theory I hadn't considered. The problem now remains to find what the specific injury may be and how best to treat it. It seems to me that the swelling must be the result of an infection brought on by injury or a particle inside the eye. I'm hoping the vet will have some magic left in her bag that will help solve the specifics. Thanks to all who have ventured to help and to any others who have ideas.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks Pam. That is a theory I hadn't considered.


 Your welcome...hope it helps...keep us updated..... :hug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

hmm Bob I remember you said something to me on Facebook but no I havent experienced anything like that. when my goats have eye issues it usually weeps and thats how i know they got injured or there is an infection etc

you certainly have a strange case there :scratch:


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks stacy:

I'm not really sure what to do now. I asked my vet about what Pam said above and she said that if there were extensive nerve damage you wouldn't expect to see Dolly's 'blink' response to be unaffected. The fact that the swelling hasn't increased over the last month & a half also, thankfully, suggests there is no underlying tumor. I guess I have no alternative other than to just watch and see. Maybe this is a condition she can live with. It sure does *look* painful though.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

If the antibiotics didn't help, then either it's a bug that wasn't susceptible to whatever you administered or it's not related to an infectious process.. The fact that it's not crusty or weeping or anything like that would seem to indicate the latter...that it's not an infection at all.

Having said that, you might consider asking your vet about a round of dexamethasone.. Inflammation of any kind -- be it related to an infection or wound or irritation or what have you -- is the product of an immune system response. Specifically, pro-inflammatory cytokines.. Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid, and corticosteroids are immune system killers. Inflammation basically gets turned OFF when dex is introduced to the system.

If the vet still thinks it could be an infection, he/she probably won't recommend it...but if it's injury related or something to that effect, it might be really helpful. Your vet will almost certainly also want to accompany the dex with a round of antibiotics as a precautionary measure, since the goat will basically be immune-compromised during the treatment with dex. If the vet agrees to the dex but doesn't mention antibiotics, mention it yourself. 

The good news is that dex is crazy cheap; I bought a 100ml vial of it for my own cabinet from the vet for under $20.

Personally, I think it's a good thing for any goatkeeper to have on hand for situations like this, and also for the treatment of urinary calculi.. Inflammation is HUGE in treating UC - dex saves lives. It can also used to induce labor in bred does...I've never had to use it that way, but I'd choose it over Lutalyse if I were inducing early in the case of toxemia or something to that effect because A) it's an appetite stimulant and good to make toxemic does EAT, and B) there's at least some evidence that it works like 'steriods' they give human moms-to-be to help their baby's lungs develop when they have to be induced/c-sectioned early. Indeed, it's one of the very same drugs they give; either betamethasone or dexamethasone.

It induces goats, though...but not humans, I guess. 

Just a few thoughts.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow....I am sure it is from some sort of injury.... I am praying ...that she will be OK and that she will go back to normal really soon..... :hug: ray:

I have to agree... that Dex... is great in taking down swellings ....deep down...in the nerve areas ....and given with an antibiotic is crucial.... if your vet ...wants to try it.. :thumb:


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I'm definitely going to speak with my vet about dexamethasone. I'm encouraged to hear of something which specifically targets swelling. It seems odd :whatgoat: that 'swelling' is the one and only symptom presenting itself. I'll keep you apprised of any developments as they happen. Again . . Thank You!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are so very welcome...good luck....I am..sending prayers for your goat... :hug: ray:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

On the ambulance, we would use Decadron (dexamethasone) for major head injuries to prevent the brain from swelling. :wink:


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi everyone:

Just an update re: Dolly. I actually printed off for the vet all of the TGS posts re: your suggestions concerning Dolly and she tends to agree with cmjust0 that a steroid is the next recommended procedure. She suggested we start on a regimen of Prednozone with an antibiotic chaser to see if the swelling can be addressed. I'll let you know how we do.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Please do let us know how she does on the pred, I was curious to know if a goat could be treated with prednisone, it certainly helps with inflammation in dogs as well as people, I hope it helps your sweet girl.


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, Dolly has finished her Pred regimen as well as another round of antibiotics. After some 2 mos of virtually full time treatment there is absolutely no change in her eye condition. It is no better and, thankfully, no worse. The vet says there isn't much left to try except MRI's and exploratory surgery (at least $1500) and then no guarantee we'll be any the wiser. 

I guess so long as Dolly is showing no signs of discomfort or distress, I will opt to just continue monitoring her. Thanks to all for your helpful and concerned advice. If there's anything either I or the vet has not considered, I'd love to have you share it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow....... sorry Bob.... that she didn't improve for you.....hopefully... it won't get worse....and she can live as normal and comfortable life.... as she can..... that eye thing.... is a big mystery for sure...... :hug:


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

creaturesall said:


> Well, Dolly has finished her Pred regimen as well as another round of antibiotics. After some 2 mos of virtually full time treatment there is absolutely no change in her eye condition. It is no better and, thankfully, no worse. The vet says there isn't much left to try except MRI's and exploratory surgery (at least $1500) and then no guarantee we'll be any the wiser.
> 
> I guess so long as Dolly is showing no signs of discomfort or distress, I will opt to just continue monitoring her. Thanks to all for your helpful and concerned advice. If there's anything either I or the vet has not considered, I'd love to have you share it.


I still don't understand why the vet chose prednisone over dex... Dex is considerably stronger than prednisone, and goats actually need quite a bit of Dex to make a difference.

:shrug:

Oh well...I'm not a vet, either.. I really hope she gets better.


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

cmjust0 said:


> I still don't understand why the vet chose prednisone over dex... Dex is considerably stronger than prednisone, and goats actually need quite a bit of Dex to make a difference.


I'm not sure either :shrug: but I think I will ask the question. I know we did use an extra large dosage of prednizone (I believe it was 6.5 ml/day) so I can't see there is much to lose if we try something stronger like dexamethasone as well. Just out of curiosity, what dosage of dex would you have suggested trying?


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

I'd have done 1ml/20lbs 1x/day, IM, for about five days to a week and then tapered the dosage off to zero over the next week or so.. Unfortunately, that would also have to have been accompanied by an antibiotic, since Dex is an immunosuppressant. I would probably have just done a prophylactic dose of PenG...maybe 1ml/15lbs *1*x/day while the Dex was in use.

Something it didn't occur to me to ask before is whether or not there's any discernable *heat* near the affected eye? If it's swelling from an injury or something like that, I'd probably expect heat as well..


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

No, no heat or discharge of any kind. I just fed the girls a few minutes ago and Dolly, as always, tried to get the most the fastest. That required her to wedge her head in between bars, causing lots of pressure to be applied to the area of her swollen eye. She showed no signs of discomfort nor pain. she pushed and wedged until she was rewarded with another mouthful of unshelled, unsalted peanuts (which all 3 love, by the way).


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

jab in the dark here but what about a tumor?

A friends daughter had a tumor behind her eye and it caused her one eye to look larger and bulge out a little. They said it wasnt life threatening but eventually it might push the eye out so they had it removed. THis tumor didnt hurt the little girl (who was like 4 at the time I do believe) and she acted totally normal about it. So maybe this is some sort of the same idea?


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## creaturesall (Oct 26, 2007)

You may be onto something there Stacey. Your suggestion seems to fit the circumstances to a 'T'. The possibility of a tumor was what was behind the prednizone trial, as pred is a steroid that should, in theory, help reduce the swelling. Would you happen to know if your friend's daughter tried any meds, ie: steroids or antibiotics, before they went to the extent of removing the eye?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

they didnt remove the eye they removed the tumor behind the eye - or did something to surgically shrink it.

Yah they tried drops in the eye and other stuff but it didnt do a thing.


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