# Very disappointed in my doeling :/



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

As some of you know, I have a Saanen doeling, Madeline. The place I got her from seemed like really nice people, she had a ton of feed out, and had pasture, but I am afraid they missed cocci. From what i understand, she had been wormed previous.

She was very bony and potbellied. After the DiMethox, her pot belly seemed to disappear, but she is still pretty bony to me.

Since she has been in my care,(5 1/2 weeks), she had a 6 day course of DiMethox 40%. She had a dose of Valbazen. This was about 5 weeks ago.
Her growth is not impressing me  So, yesterday, when I was trimming hooves, she got copper (2 grams), selenium/E gel and a cd&t shot. I also gave her a dose of Ivomec.I am going to redose in ten days.and again in ten...

She and her friend (another doeling) get 2 cups of 50/50 alfalfa and sweet 18% every morning(shared).They get free choice hay that is actually making my buck "hefty" along with his wether buddy :/ They get loose minerals.

I am so freakin' disappointed in her growth. Her parents were used on a dairy farm and were really big I was told.

I know she will not be able to be bred this year for sure...I am betting she weighs 35 lbs, tops. She was born March 2nd 

I'll try to post an updated pic tomorrow....here is a pic after I first got her...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh, and her horns...they have grown but they have a thicker, smoother look to the base of them...is that a good sign?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would add Calf Manna and I would also up her feed amount. I have a purebred LaMancha doeling that is 5 months old and a LaMancha/Nubian cross who is 3 months old and they get 3 cups in the morning and 2 cups in the evening of my grain mixture for a total of 5 cups per day each. My hay is alfalfa/grass mix. They are growing really well and I even fought pneumonia twice in the LaMancha.

I probably would do another coccidia treatment as well just to be sure and get them knocked out. Once they have it bad, it is hard to rid them of it.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Hmmm, to put weight on her and help her grow maybe some calf manna? I think that is a good sign with the horns... I got took to with my new baby Bella... Turns out it was the same people I didn't want to buy from because they wean their kids at 4 weeks... It was a different ad that I answered on CL and I put it all together when I got home.... I put her back on a bottle, she is gaining weight, but I'm hoping she isn't going to be stunted.... The lady that is helping with my little herd recommended calf manna for nutrition sake..., so I will be getting some, along with noble goat medicated feed to prevent cocci.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow, That much grain?? I believe you but I thought a max of 2 cups each a day for kids...I will start building her up more tomorrow!

I give my yearling doeling 1 cup a day of my mix and she is getting chunky! Although, to keep Heidi in good shape while milking I do 13 cups a day...

I'll start DiMethox again tomorrow too...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

The calf manna will have to wait til friday...it's feed store day....but I can add more grain and alfalfa for sure...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm probably giving a little more than I should but 1/3 is sprouted oats/wheat and 1/3 is alfalfa pellets and the last 1/3 is a 16% goat feed.

I would probably at least make sure she has 2-3 cups per day of feed just herself. Of course up it slowly.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Her little legs are like twigs  
Heidi's doeling I still have is much stronger and healthier looking...and she's 2 months younger.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Will do....I'm just so frustrated because I was hoping she'd be able to be bred by December...and it is not gonna happen. So now it's another year :sigh:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Will do....I'm just so frustrated because I was hoping she'd be able to be bred by December...and it is not gonna happen. So now it's another year :sigh:


Totally understand.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My 5 month old is about 60 lbs and my 3 month old is about 45 lbs.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

She looks really small to me.. Here is a picture of my doeling 1/2 Saanen 1/2 Lamancha born May 20th. I don't feed the babies any grain at all. They have unlimited pasture, that's it. No alfalfa either.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She is small...she is the size of my other doeling who is a Fainter/Nubian cross and 2 months younger.  

I know this sounds harsh, but I am not sure I am going to want to put a whole lot of time and money into her if she will be stunted.I would like for her to at least be the size of my Nubian....so how long do you wait to see if the growth is going well? A month or two? Maybe 4-5 months? Or should I look for weight gain averages each month?

Any suggestions?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> My 5 month old is about 60 lbs and my 3 month old is about 45 lbs.


Yeah, that's what I was hoping to see...I'll try to weigh her tomorrow and get an actual weight...I'll measure her too and get pics of her now...

It's so frustrating when you keep making errors in judgement as a newbie.I knew she was small but I thought her growth would have picked up more pace by now. I wish i had just saved more cash and bought a yearling...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She could catch up later. You may not see it initially and then all of a sudden she will.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

farmchick897 said:


> She looks really small to me.. Here is a picture of my doeling 1/2 Saanen 1/2 Lamancha born May 20th. I don't feed the babies any grain at all. They have unlimited pasture, that's it. No alfalfa either.
> 
> View attachment 39386


That looks like a healthy doeling! My other doelings look good and healthy but they were born here...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I hope you're right Karen....how much calf manna to add to my mixture?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Maybe start out with 1/4 cup and work up to 1/2 cup or so. Kind of see how it goes. I would give her some time. The slow growers seem to catch up around a year old. You may also have some slow growing genetics in there too if you don't totally know her background. She is adorable.

Replamin Plus might be helpful too. I give it to my girls once a month.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks  She really does have a cute face...she is also pretty mellow...not hyper active but very food motivated.

I'll start the calf manna this weekend and tomorrow the DiMethox again, along with 1/4 cup more alfalfa/sweet mix.

I think goathiker said there are some slow growing lines of Saanen...but it's the twiggy legs and overall poor condition that bother me. Hoping the copper will help...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Her face is sweet.....my vet told me once that they usually catch up by age two....she has a wormy look to me, the thin legs and barrel like middle..her hair shouldbe sleek.....have you done a fecal to be sure your wormer/cocci treatment is working? Check for tape as well which can also stunt growth...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's Bean at about 14 months old, the one behind my leg...he was about 80 lbs. He was such a wormy spindly little thing, I refused to take out into public for 5 months after I got him. In my Avatar he is just 2 and about 185. He did a bunch of growing his second year. This year he is 3...He weighs 220 lbs.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well at least there is hope nygoatmom with Goathiker's story Best of luck to you!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I should also mention that Bean was about 10 months old when I got him. He was very weak and sick. If he got knocked over, he couldn't get up by himself. Yours may recover quicker because she is younger and a little sturdier.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks everyone!

I got beet pulp shreds today as calf manna would have brought me way over budget  gonna add 1/4 cup of that in the am...

I got some pics of her tonight...the Saanen is the one I am unhappy with...the other is Heidis younger doeling...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She has definitely improved. I would give her time. Don't be surprised if she ends up being a great doe for you. It takes a long time to get them back into shape when they have had a rough go.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Her face is sweet.....my vet told me once that they usually catch up by age two....she has a wormy look to me, the thin legs and barrel like middle..her hair shouldbe sleek.....have you done a fecal to be sure your wormer/cocci treatment is working? Check for tape as well which can also stunt growth...


Happybleats~ The pics I posted tonight are updated pics. Her coat is improved since I got her but still not fantastic...but it has only been 5 weeks...
Also, I am doing Ivomec right now at 10 day intervals...the second dose is due in a week from tomorrow.I did valbazen before but only one dose, so if needed I will do three of that as well. I am doing a second run of DiMethox as of today for 6 days.

As for tapes, i have seen no segments....

Also, if you look closely in the second pic at her horns, you can see how the bottom looks wider and smoother...I am taking that is a good sign of better nutrition?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> She has definitely improved. I would give her time. Don't be surprised if she ends up being a great doe for you. It takes a long time to get them back into shape when they have had a rough go.


You think so? Oh that is encouraging!!  I value your experience!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is hard to see when you are looking at her daily but put those pictures side by side and you can see there is no question of improvement.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She surely was a sight from the pic when you first got her 
I do think that the added TLC on top of the added groceries will show itself even more in the coming weeks 

She has such a sweet face and her build in general shows promise for her future, don't give up on her just yet... I'm one who see's potential in any critter needing a bit of TLC.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok,Ok...I won't give up yet!  It is nice to hear others seeing potential in her....I keep seeing what she is NOT .... and thinking I am wasting my time trying. I normally would have no problem regardless, but I have limited space and want to use it wisely! Especially since my feed bill is a new truck payment  I need animals to give some back!

I will try to update often on her progress....beet pulp starts tomorrow!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Goathiker~ I know you told me that before, but I didn't realize he was that bad off! How sad that must have been to see  I will continue to try to help her improve and see if she picks up a bit after more deworming and dimethox and beet pulp.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I also think she's looking better I'm sure with time and extra groceries she will earn her keep. I'm hoping for the same for my little Bella....


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

janeen~ Thanks  I hope so...she eats everything I give her. I am hoping to see more marked improvement when the copper kicks in too....

how is Bellas growth doing? Have before and after pics?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

When you give the beet pulp shreds, offer it to her dry first mixed into her feed.... I use it when my does are newly fresh as well as with my boys during rut and mine prefer it dry, wet seems to make them picky about it


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

When I have a stunted animal that for whatever reason I end up with, I add fat to their diet. I use rice bran meal and figure out the amount needed to give then 5% fat in their diet.

I hahve used meat goat grower pellets. Those have a high fat plus a coccidiostat.

Have you had a fecal run on her? That would have been my first thing to do. And then I would follow up once a month until I knew she was mostly free of internal parasites. You never want them 100% because their immune system would not be primed against the parasites.

My doelings get 2- 4 pounds of concentrates a day. I add soaked beet pulp to their morning meal, plus they get free choice minerals mixed with kelp, probiotics once a week and rice bran meal.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I have not had a fecal run....but if I see no improvement after the third Ivomec, I will. She has no symptoms at all...she just looks unthrifty.Her behavior is fine...pee,poop is fine...

I just got the beet pulp today, gonna try it in the am.I do add probiotics to her water like once a week...

Where do you get the rice bran meal?


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I adopted a purebred Nubian doe last year only because she was so tiny, supposedly bred and due any day and very obviously full of worms. She came from a local farm with top quality Nubians, but whoever bought her did a number on her. She is still tiny, she never grew. However, I got her when she was already mostly grown. She had not been wormed properly, just given that pelleted stuff a couple of weeks before i saw her. They bred her even though she was too tiny and in no condition to be bred. She thankfully either didn't take or her body just couldn't maintain the fetuses, because she didn't kid that year. I got her back into shape and healthy. She was bred last fall and produced 2 gorgeous kids, fed them and added to the milk pail while still maintaining condition. She is show quality in minature size. I was thinking of finding a F5 or so mini Nubian and raising mini Nubians instead of the full sized ones. I am keeping her daughter, since she is a thing of beauty who will grow correctly.

So, even if your doe stays on the smallish side, she can still be cared for and brought to health. She can still be bred to a full sized buck and produce normal, healthy kids.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I get my rice bran meal at Tractor supply. It comes in a 40 pound bag, I think it is. It's about 25.00 or so but it lasts a long time.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow....how old was she when you started taking care of her? My doeling is 5 1/2 months...that is why I worry...maybe it was too long to be wormy...

will check into the rice bran...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> janeen~ Thanks  I hope so...she eats everything I give her. I am hoping to see more marked improvement when the copper kicks in too....
> 
> how is Bellas growth doing? Have before and after pics?


I am waiting until I've had her a month... Then I'll show before and after pics.... I've wormed her, will treat for cocci as well just to make sure.. She is drinking her bottles...and starting to eating a little grain... So in a few weeks I'll have the before and after pics.... Her she is on the 1st day though


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I can see improvement from the before pic and the more recent one. It is hard to see any improvement when you see then all day. Take a picture every week, save them and look back on it a month from now. You will be suprised.
Like I said, just keep working at her, she will grow! I have worked with a fair share like her, and they did not get full potential, but they grew to a decent adult size.

I feed my kids 2lbs a day each, so best advice is to work her up


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

NyGoatMom said:


> She and her friend (another doeling) get 2 cups of 50/50 alfalfa and sweet 18% every morning(shared).They get free choice hay that is actually making my buck "hefty" along with his wether buddy :/ They get loose minerals.


Do you realize that is only about 1/2 lb per kid? That is not enough. I would gradually build them up to at least 1 1/2 lb per kid, and I would also lose the sweet feed in favor of some type of grower pellet.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

I have a two year old Nubian doe who's really small. I bought her as a bred yearling (I never would have bred her) and she's grown some since I got her. I suspect she had cocci as a kid and that stunted her growth. She had a single kid earlier this year who was 9 lbs and is almost as big as her mom now at 5 months old. :lol: 

Is it really necessary to feed that much grain to a normal healthy kid? I've never given mine (standard breeds) more than two cups a day and they've all grown wonderfully. I do dam-raise so maybe that has something to do with it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

.:Linz:. said:


> Is it really necessary to feed that much grain to a normal healthy kid? I've never given mine (standard breeds) more than two cups a day and they've all grown wonderfully. I do dam-raise so maybe that has something to do with it?


Yes, sometimes it is necessary. Every farm is different. Plus keep in mind that not everyone has good pasture and some can't even find good hay. Also, "grain" can be a lot of different things and not just necessarily a bagged goat feed. Many people call alfalfa pellets and such "grain".


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

NYgoatmom, I just wanted to say I totally know what you're going through. I have these two little nigerian doelings (five months old) and they are TINY! I didn't expect them to be when I went to get them, since the lady seemed to know what she was doing over the phone, but I got there, and their coats were rough, their eyes were runny, they were very unthrifty. I was sad, and I knew they were too small, but I had to get them anyway, I felt so sorry for them. They are still tiny, but I think they're doing better. It is really hard to tell though, like the others said when you see them on a day to day basis. I really want them to get to a decent size one day, but I am very impatient.  mine had really spindly legs too, and they're better, but I still don't like them. We just need to stick at it, hopefully they will reward our efforts by becoming beautiful adults one day!


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> Yes, sometimes it is necessary. Every farm is different. Plus keep in mind that not everyone has good pasture and some can't even find good hay. Also, "grain" can be a lot of different things and not just necessarily a bagged goat feed. Many people call alfalfa pellets and such "grain".


True dat.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks everybody for the suggestions...

Lacie & Goatcrazy~ I have been trying to very slowly work her up since one morning she pigged the whole thing down herself and got scours...so i had to back off some. I have added 1/4 c beet pulp to 1 1/2 cups alfalfa and 1 cup sweet so far...will continue to up it until I reach the 2 cups each.

The reason i felt they were getting enough, is I have other goats getting FAT off of hay only! Everyone gets 24/7 free choice hay. The hay is Timothy,Orchard,Brome and Clover. My hay farmer uses only natural methods. She uses fish meal to fertilize the fields...and the hay is rich...

Byccombe~ I understand how you feel! Hope you see results soon!

Linz~I dam raise as well for at least 10 weeks...but this one was not from my herd.

Good news is, she ate the beet pulp dry on her feed


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Stephanie I understand about the other goats getting fat off of just hay. Not all goats are easy keepers, though, especially when they have had rough start in life. This little girl has some making up to do before she reaches the point that she is even on the board, and she may not reach that point. She may always need a little extra. Each goat has to be evaluated as an individual in order to determine whether the ration being fed is adequate for their needs in each stage of their lives.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

I have heard that if you never feed grain to a goat that they develop the necessary rumen function to keep them healthy. This makes sense to me as goats and cows are not designed to eat large portions of grain. I know I have raised my Jersey cow from a week old bottle baby and she was not raised on grain and she is a thick solid cow like my Black Angus. Now she is due to calf any day now and I do plan to give her some grain while milking or if needed for body condition. But I do wonder if we are doing a disservice to these animals pumping them full of a food they are not designed to eat. And a food that is filled with GMO's and pesticides.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to start with a healthy goat. I would not feed just browse to an already compromised and undernourished goat.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I just love hearing everyone's thoughts on this.  I agree about starting with a healthy goat, and I also have questioned the use of grain in a ruminant, and I appreciate the reminder to look at Madeline as _Madeline_ and not any other goat 

After talking with you all and changing the program a bit, I am feeling kinda good about her now and much more hopeful  So, thanks!

So far she is loving the grain/alfalfa/beet pulp mix in the am. Right now they get ( 2 of them) 1 1/2 c alfalfa 1 cup sweet and 1/2 c beet pulp.I am going to add more beet pulp in a couple days....Lord knows I have enough being a 40 lb bag for really just one doeling


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

I just bought a bred yearling lamancha who was starved by a 4-Her before her breeder rescued her. You can see a pic on our website. We are feeding her plenty of grain, alfalfa pellets, and alfalfa hay. Her breeder and I have faith that she will reach her full potential with time and lots of TLC. Don't give up on your girl yet!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I agree, NYgoatmom! We can do it! Lol


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes we can!!  Woot!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is best to start with a healthy goat but the sick and starving ones need our help too. I have a hard time passing up an animal in need.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You're very right....and us backyarders are perfect candidates for sick/starving goats....


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Trillium was over a year when I got her. You have a much better chance of getting your girl to grow than I did, since she was pretty much already an adult.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I hope you're right...we shall see. I would think she would start grwoing or showing more improvement within a couple weeks...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

She repairs herself from the inside out. Right now she's regrowing healthy cells and gaining the fat around her organs. One day soon you'll walk out and notice that she's smoother and wider, Then you'll see her start growing.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, so update here....she is getting 1 cup alfalfa,1/2 cup sweet 18%, and 1 1/2 cups beet pulp daily along with loose minerals and free choice hay...here are the before pics and the pics from today (with snow :sigh) 
She still seems "raggy" looking to me...should I up the feed? She has been dewormed since I got her twice once with a round of valbazens and once with a round of Ivomecs....valbazen was 3 days in a row, Ivomec was twice...ten days apart. DiMethox was given when she first came here and her bloat-y look went away...she just seems so scrawny to me...remember she is supposed to be a year old next month  Oh, and she was copper bolused in January along with selenium/e...


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

She looks so much better though, I think it is just slow going. did you see Daff's updated pics? She is about the same size and she will be a year next month too.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She really is looking great. What a huge improvement. She will get there. Give her some time.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I did see those...she is so cute  I am just so frustrated right now. It has been since July....I need her to be ready by fall for breeding or I can't keep her on here  I really like her though, she is really cute and friendly.
I need to see how much she weighs now....I'm wondering if I should up the alfalfa for growth....but she's getting 3 cups a day of grains now...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> She really is looking great. What a huge improvement. She will get there. Give her some time.


Really? You think so Karen? It feels soooo slow.... I hope she does grow more...I really like her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You could always breed her to a Nigerian for her first time. I think I'm going to breed my LaManchas to a Nigerian for their first time and they aren't even stunted. I really like the idea of smaller kids for their first time.

What are you giving her for supplements? I would really consider giving her Replamin Plus weekly. I give it to my girls every other week and they have the softest winter coats that I have ever had on my goats. I would probably also give kelp if you aren't already. That is another one that has helped my goats.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

True, I could try that if her growth isn't substantial by next fall....I have some vitamin/electrolytes I could add to her water, or if you think probios would help...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Should I add a second cup of alfalfa pellets?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Try another cup of alfalfa pellets, and another half cup, to 1 cup of the sweet feed. 
She does look better than she did, still has a bit to go, but she is coming along. She still has another 7-9 before fall, I think she'll catch up by then. A lot can change in those months, she already has put on weight, so that means she's repaired enough inside so it has started to show on the outside.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Might not hurt. I would just kind of play around with it a bit and see.

The Replamin Plus has a lot of good vitamins and minerals in it. More than just probios or electrolytes.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Lacie...I'll start that tomorrow. I hope she gains some height too. Her parents were supposedly huge...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Saanens grow a little differently then other breeds. She will grow a bunch this spring and then keep right on growing through her 3rd spring and slow down in her 4th year. Here's Bean as a yearling, the little dude on the leash.


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Might not hurt. I would just kind of play around with it a bit and see.
> 
> The Replamin Plus has a lot of good vitamins and minerals in it. More than just probios or electrolytes.


Can replamin be used in conjunction with Bose?


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I think from what I have seen with Daffodil, they have to fix the inside organs and such like Jill said in an earlier post, then they put on their body capacity then the height finally begins to come. Daff is just now, beginning to start gaining some height.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Darlaj said:


> Can replamin be used in conjunction with Bose?


I use both. I have found I can do BoSe less now.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

your girl looks good! she looks like she's grown and filled out a bit. I have no real wisdom to impart on you, but if it was cocci that did a number on her insides, probios would be great to give to help heal the gut. a healthy gut will fix most problems (in humans, but I'm assuming that would hold true for goats as well...).

you're doing great with her! keep up the great work!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks  I think I will start her on probios too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Pic from the other day...She is now getting 2c shredded dry beet pulp, 2c alfalfa pellets,1c sweet goat 18% every evening. How does she look to you? To me, she still looks underweight...I am wondering if she is eating enough hay with all the feed she gets...been to darn cold and nasty to stand out there and hang around since she wants to be near you when you come out 
Remember, she is a year old....I will weight tape her tonight and see what that tells me...


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

She's looking pretty good. I wouldn't worry about the hay...just keep doing what you're doing. It's working.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she looks good to me. bright eyed, bushy tailed, fluffy and oh so cute! you're doing great!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Looking a lot better!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks guys...she just seems so s-l-o-w- growing...haha...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She is growing slow. But she is growing. I would just keep it up. Don't be surprised if she takes off once spring and summer are here. At this point, part of her energy has gone into keeping warm.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ok....will keep updating


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm sure she will end up great with you!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Sydney


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yep, she's looking good. The last several months Bella my stunted one surpassed my yearling Nubian doe... She's about 2 inches taller... So just keep up the good work and the good nutrition... She'll get there;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks janeen, I will...


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

I just read through the whole thread, she looks sooo much better. You have done a great job. She is so cute! I think you are going to be just fine!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Artdrake said:


> I just read through the whole thread, she looks sooo much better. You have done a great job. She is so cute! I think you are going to be just fine!


Thanks  I sure hope so....she really has a cute personality. She will run around and kick her heels up all by herself :lol:


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

I want to second the "winter has zapped some of her growth potential" thought. Some of her available funds, aka the calories from the food she has been eating, have gone towards paying the heating bill for her body. She has had to buy a thick coat, tolerate the increased heating bill thanks to cracks and crevices she cannot seal up to keep the cold out, etc.... (A plus, if you look at her, is that she was capable of growing one heck of a nice winter coat with those calories that could have gone towards growth).

Here, we are also riding that roller coaster that happens this time of year, with a couple really nice early spring days, followed by a couple much colder days, then back up again. If you ride that ride too, that is rough on their systems. 

You may be surprised at the growth she puts on once temps start to go up a bit more.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Here are pics of Bella. The first pic is when I got her, 2nd and 3rd pic is of today. I will also post on "I'm Crazy post;-)



















Just an FYI for anyone seeing this. Yes, she was too young to be bred, my original plan fell through to breed this coming season when my buck decided to get out She is doing well though and so is the baby boy;-)


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Your Saanen is looking a lot better than she did when you got her. I think this spring you will be pleasantly surprised by how she looks when her hair is gone. As soon as it is warm enough I would clip her to get rid of that older coat so she can grow a nice new one.

Do you know if she is American Saanen or purebred? If she bas any purebred lines that could also be why she is growing a little slower. Most of the purebreds seem to be a little slower growing.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ptgoats45 said:


> Your Saanen is looking a lot better than she did when you got her. I think this spring you will be pleasantly surprised by how she looks when her hair is gone. As soon as it is warm enough I would clip her to get rid of that older coat so she can grow a nice new one.
> 
> Do you know if she is American Saanen or purebred? If she bas any purebred lines that could also be why she is growing a little slower. Most of the purebreds seem to be a little slower growing.


She is a purebred as far as I know. Both parents were on a local dairy farm for years, mom as a milker, dad as a breeder.
I hope you are right, I have been really putting the feed to her


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I agree nygoatmom, and she will probably sprout up in the spring and summer. Obviously Bella has more growing to do, and I'm hoping she will do a lot of growing too...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

We will have to compare notes


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> Here are pics of Bella. The first pic is when I got her, 2nd and 3rd pic is of today. I will also post on "I'm Crazy post;-)
> View attachment 60008
> View attachment 60009
> View attachment 60010
> ...


She has for sure matured! She is a lot sturdier....how has her height growth been?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

She is actually is 2 inches taller than my Nubian yearling, she bolted up just in the last several months...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That's great!! I hope Madeline gets some height this year  Excited to find out!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I just weight taped Madeline...she is 72 lbs....would I be pushing it to have her bred now to kid in the late summer?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

A Saanen probably would not be cycling right now, they are seasonal. 
I prefer to have my doelings at 80lbs, more so pushing 90-100 before I breed them.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Honestly I would wait. She will most likely sprout up a lot more in the spring/summer. Everything did go fine with Bella (except she needs to learn stand manners) but I would have waited, I think it's better for them.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yeah, Little Bits has a point of cycling....


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, I thought probably....just frustrated right now. I need milk! Heidi's milk is bitter again this year, but this time she was bolused in December, so she should be ok on copper...right now I am trying 1 tsp of yeast daily on her food to see if it helps.

It isn't my feed...Daisy's milk is delicious! But she is a FF and will only give so much....They both have the same things and usually at the same times.

I do have my new alpine doe though....I may try to see if she takes if she isn't bred already...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I copper bolus mine every 3 months.... I thought it was a lot, but when I start seeing red on my black does, that's when I do it.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I know, I just don't have any black ones old enough to tell...lol...I may just bolus her and see...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

When Heidi's milk started tasting better last year, were there any feed changes?

Are you feeding the exact same way as when she had good milk?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> When Heidi's milk started tasting better last year, were there any feed changes?
> 
> Are you feeding the exact same way as when she had good milk?


Yes, exact same way. What I think changed it last year was a copper bolus. But she just had one in December on the 28th...granted, she chewed it as I put it on her food...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think it might again might last a bit longer if going down whole.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thinking I will try the baking soda, keep up with the yeast for a couple days, and Jill suggested to me to try garlic gel caps and give her the oil from those 2 times a day and see if it clears it up. She said it is possible the kids are getting saliva in her teats.
Then if that doesn't work...another bolus.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Thinking I will try the baking soda, keep up with the yeast for a couple days, and Jill suggested to me to try garlic gel caps and give her the oil from those 2 times a day and see if it clears it up. She said it is possible the kids are getting saliva in her teats.
> Then if that doesn't work...another bolus.


Really, garlic gel caps? Hmmm, interesting. I wouldn't have thought about that...;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Pic from two days ago....just updating the thread on Madeline Here she is with Daisy Mae ( a 1 1/2 year old nubian)
She is looking better, but she has some issues. She seems to have goat ADD (seriously...lol) She cannot usually stay still (this was a rarity) and is always into something! Feeding time is a trip....I actually have to hold her bowl away from her enough so she can't "scoop" it out all over the place...she eats on the stand and I can't put the bucket where it goes since she does this......I hold it lower so she can just reach the food. Every time she tries to "scoop"...I remove it for a minute. It seems to be helping.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

awww!!! what a cutie!!!!! she looks soo snuggable!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She is a nosy nellie....lol....we can't work on anything without her up in it...or looking to drag the tools off to God knows where! 
She is seriously hyperactive...and for a Saanen...it seems to be the opposite of what they say!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

She looks like she is filling out though... She's a cutie... My Bella is the same way, always wanting to "help" if only...;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ya know Janeen...she seems to be starting to finally grow up taller too....we shall see  I'll keep updating her pics.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I had a rope on Daff this weekend I had just caught her and was going to lead her into the pen, (I had let them out to graze/browse) and she literally drug me around a bit. She is getting STRONG. I got the rope because I also tried to pick her up and carry her (always what I did in the past) and she is TOO HEAVY!!!! so she is FINALLY growing YAAYYYY!!!! I think our girls will get there they just like to be fashionable late....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She looks good.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Leslie that's great! I weight taped her at 72 lbs....

Thanks Karen, I hope she shoots up this year!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well we just banded her horns today  I was hoping she would be calmer by now but unfortunately, she has a habit of swinging her head around...a LOT. I am afraid that someone will get hurt. We shaved her hair down,cleaned the bases with alcohol, filed notches and did two bands on each horn. I gave her an aspirin and it seems to have helped.

I am so bummed, I love horns and I would have kept them on but her personality is too wacky and unpredictable.

She sure is my problem child :lol: Good thing I love her anyway!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I think she'll look goofy but cute without horns  . And I totally agree, pointy objects on the head of an ADD goat= trouble for sure!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well...here are some pics of the banding job we did. She cried for about 15-20 minutes after and has since acted fine.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good job...;-)


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Looks good. Keep us posted. And seeing that nasty infected dis budding post, id say have some blue coat on stand by.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks guys! I do have some blue kote, maybe I'll put some triple antibiotic on it every couple days...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

U can also help her fight off any impending infection with herbs taken internally to boost immune system - cayenne, garlic and vit c


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Just keep an eye on it and change the bands monthly. Give a shot of Banamine when you change bands.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks guys, will do! I'll update on progress.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well here are pics from today...I have been putting triple antibiotic on them. Tomorrow I plan to carefully clean them with peroxide and apply more antibiotic.
You can start to see where they are coming off....it has been since the 6th..last pic is to show her body condition now. She is still getting 2c alfalfa, 2 c sweet 18%, and 1 c beet pulp daily along with 24/7 hay


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

I hope you continue to update us on her banding of the horns. I have two that I really want to do, but I've been gun shy about doing it!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Will do...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she's looking bigger and fuller!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I was hoping!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

She's looking good;-) Both on the banding and on her condition;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks  I'll keep updating on her progress!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Pics from today that I took, thought they showed progress well. I cleaned them with peroxide and put triple antibiotic on it after. The peroxide didn't fizz, so I'll take that as a good sign!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good;-) Yep that's a good sign;-)


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No more peroxide, iodine, alcohol, anything like that. They will destroy the integrity of the bands and make them weaker. The process is dry and slow. As soon as the horns fall off check for a small hole into the sinus. If there is one, which is rare, cut a gauze pad into a circle bigger than the hole and glue it onto her head with Elmers' glue. By the time the glue releases the pad, the hole should be closed over. Make sure that nothing falls into that hole.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Awesome Jill, thanks!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Here she is, First pic is her horn progress, second pic is her body progress.Sunday will be re-banding day, hoping it goes well.I don't wanna break them off....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can't believe how great she is looking. Horns look like that is going well too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Phew! Thanks for the reassurance Karen  She is a great gal personality wise, I love her!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet she is going to do well for you.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am anxious to see what she milks like. Her dam and sire were on a dairy farm...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she's looking great! you can tell by her face that she no longer has that baby look. all growed up now! and getting bigger!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

She's looking so good;-) I'm thinking she will do well for you too. She has a sweet but mischievous face...., just like my Bella girl;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well here is what happened to her tonight....
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/need-advice-quickly-horn-not-all-way-off-167858/


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Awe!!! Praying for a quick recovery... Poor girl... I get to work on my ober buck tomorrow...Not looking forward to it...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Here are pics from tonight after I cleaned her up...I had to get the blood out of her hair (some I had to cut) so her hair is funky...I have kept her on aspirin today, she ate most of her grain but not all. She is eating hay fine though...I am also including pics of her horns. Notice one is complete? That was ripped out when she threw her head back. The other one is the one that part of the horn base is still banded. I did pick up blood stop and blue kote, the blue kote makes it hard to see her wounds but it made her feel better, I am sure of that. Gonna take a while for her to like the stand again


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Looks a little rough but she will be fine. You will be glad those horns are gone.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Will hair regrow over all that? It does seem really rough....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It did for my girl.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I guess time will tell. I have learned so much on this goat journey. First rule, Never say never! I said I'd never have bottle babies, I currently have 4...I said all horned goats if possible....but I will only have 3 horned goats out of seven...I said I would not disbud kids (but now trying to do registered I probably will disbud kids)..I said a lot of things I THOUGHT I would do or not do before I actually experienced it for myself..so lesson learned! You don't know for sure what you will do until faced with the situation!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im glad she is better Stephanie  
I bet the hair will grow back in no time ! 
I agree , never say never , lol. 
What a experience for you ! You handled it wonderfully , you should be very proud of yourself


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Laura...I hate hurting or causing pain for my animals, that is the hardest part!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I can relate , but it was a accident , so don't be hard on yourself ! :hug:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I was just hoping they would fall off gradually...it was so traumatic for her  but it's over now....


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Yes , and she is eating , which means a heckuva lot 
She will mend , but I'm sure the memory will last longer , for you .
I think once she has no more pain when she eats , she will be OK on the milk stand for you


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Except you may have to pluck that broken piece out of there once it gets loose. The other one is done.

She will heal up a lot quicker than you think. It will look a lot different even 2 days from now.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Jill...that is great to hear


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good job... I'm glad she is doing well...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yep, the hair grows back just fine. I had one Obie doe, that I banded the horns on (I actually have all three does, they were triplets) and she was the one out of the bunch that knocked her horns off too early, it was a nasty mess like that too. I didn't take any pictures as it was healing, just the before close to after, and after, but it didn't take that long for the hair to grow back. 

It's been 8 months and they still have smooth heads


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Not likely. If they're disbudded well at a young age the surrounding hair will cover, but I have one with very minor scurs - basically just a large horn bud - and they poke out.

MTA: the hair around there will regrow and may or may not cover the scars, but there won't be hair where the horns were.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

awwww! I'm sure she'll feel better in no time. look at her...hiding her face from the camera. it's like she's saying "no...please no pictures....I'm hideous". lol.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Nice obers Lacie 

I hope it covers but if it doesn't, it's ok. No show goats here


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, Ni~ she was mortified I had the stand outside! :lol:


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

Have any neat plans for the horns? When I banded a boer goat's horns (he killed another goat with them), I sent them to a family friend who turns pens from them! We do the same if we find shed deer antlers.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats a cool idea ^^^^


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

the Vikings used to make spoons from their sheep and goat horns.....


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

lol...naw, not really. My DD was like "Why do you still have those? They're so gross!" Should have seen the look on her face when I said" Well, I need pictures of them". :lol:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

This morning she was jumping to get out of the stall....and ate her grain as fast as usual  Thinking she feels pretty good


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Yay :stars::leap:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She is being supervised outside...so far, so good


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Here is a pic from today to show how Madelines doing


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Looking good;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Janeen  How's your crew?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

That healed up so quickly ! It looks good ! Thank goodness , that was so scary !


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I hear ya Laura...when she knocked them both off it was awful! She is 100% back to her old self again now  Nervous Nellie and in your face...:lol:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats great ! When they are in trouble , you know they're happy , lolol.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Thanks Janeen  How's your crew?


They are doing well;-) The little ones are growing like weeds.... My ober buck is having some discharge from one of the horns the vet took off Saturday, I'm hoping that's normal, other than that I have no complaints;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Hmmm....what color is it? Does it have a bad odor?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

It's a yellow whitish color, it looks like snot, and no odor. I have been putting blue Kote on it every night.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm surprised the vet didn't cover the hole. Cut a gauze into a circle and glue the edges to horn stub. That will keep some of the nasties out while the hole heals up. Just use Elmer's school glue as it's non-toxic and will fall off after a few days. Rinse repeat until the hole closes.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I'm surprised the vet didn't cover the hole. Cut a gauze into a circle and glue the edges to horn stub. That will keep some of the nasties out while the hole heals up. Just use Elmer's school glue as it's non-toxic and will fall off after a few days. Rinse repeat until the hole closes.


Okay thanks Goathiker, I'll do that... That makes sense....;-)


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow , Jill is just awesome


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Agreed


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yep agreed;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Just another update on Madeline...she is looking much better now but I can't wait to see her next year after kidding...
one pic is her horn bases...I am planning to reband since they are not close enough to the skull...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She really looks great! The horns don't look bad either.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Karen! It has been a looong time comin'! She weighs roughly 90 lbs now...but when I see how she looked in the first post, I realize how far she has come!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

OH MY GOSH! I just looked at her first pic again, holy cow, YEAH she looks better!!! She has grown so much and you can tell how much she has matured since. Like night and day!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!! She's looking good;-)


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Crap, that's the same goat?!?!? :shocked: She looks A M A Z I N G  SO gorgeous!!!


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

She looks great!!! I just wanted to share pics of my last Kiko buck, I got him from some one that would only feed there own face and starved the goats, he was about 6 weeks and only 10-15 lbs, full of worms and every other nasty bug, pore guy, but at 1 year the was over 150 lbs and beautiful! First pic when I got him, second at 1 year, third now at 3 years.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

spidy1 said:


> She looks great!!! I just wanted to share pics of my last Kiko buck, I got him from some one that would only feed there own face and starved the goats, he was about 6 weeks and only 10-15 lbs, full of worms and every other nasty bug, pore guy, but at 1 year the was over 150 lbs and beautiful! First pic when I got him, second at 1 year, third now at 3 years.


Wow, cool!!! I rescued a Saanen buckling about 2 months ago..., luckily I got him just in time, otherwise he wouldn't have made it. Apparently about a month ago the animal control euthanized the rest of the herd according to my friend. They were all in bad shape I know.., but thankfully Sammy my buckling is doing well;-)


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

She looks great steph! Wow! What a differance!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

What an amazing change. She looks terrific!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks everyone! She is still a work in progress but she sure has come a long way,huh? She is now getting 2c alfalfa 3 c sweet 18 and 2 c beet pulp daily...going to back off some after breeding though...I hae it written down somewhere how tall she is at the withers, will have to find it...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

she's looking great Stephanie! you've done great work with her!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well if she turns out anything like my Bella, she is milking at a gallon a day, and she is continuing to grow... I'm pretty sure you will be happy with Madeline's outcome;-)


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Time will tell. I just re-banded her horn bases tonight. I'll keep updating for people who wanna see what the process is...

Thanks Ni, it's a lot of groceries :lol:


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

well, hopefully her udder will freshen beautifully and give you lots of milk, and lots and lots of doe babies to make up the all the groceries.

are you breeding her this fall?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, I am...that is if my new herd sire gets big enough and randy enough!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ah, so she's going to have sable/Nubian kids.... would that be a snable? lol


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Or a Nubel!!!!:ROFL::slapfloor:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Snubians....she is a Saanen  but Iris is a alpine/saanen/nubian....what will those be called? Salpinubians?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Haha!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ooh! thought she was sable....lol


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Hey Ni...how is your name pronounced? Is it nee or neye or some other way?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

It's pronounced "nee". Smart Alecs always ask if it's spelled "knee". idiots.... lol. That was random... have you been wondering this whole time???


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Hahaha, not really wondering, I just was saying it incorrectly!  I'm not sure what brought it up!

I did measure Madeline too, she is around 90 # and 26 1/4 inches tall at the withers.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

well, an update on Madelines horns. They have been banded 3 times  They keep growing. My DH is ordering some wire saws to see if we can get closer to the skull....I am hoping that her horns will stop growing after this.
No pics right now but I will try to get some....

Any suggestions on how to wire saw through them?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think that's how my vet did my buck Charlie's horns. Unfortunately the are growing again He gave him a sedative, Charlie passes out, he put his foot on his head and seesawed them off. Wasn't expecting that honestly..


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yeah...I think I'll wire off the majority of growth and try banding again...seems her skin kept receding for a bit and then when we thought we had them down far enough but nope....hoping I can at least make them look less stupid :lol:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ouch... Hopefully you can figure it ..poor girl


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She has a fit if I touch her scurs....but only if she is in the stand when I do. If she is out in her pen, she is fine with it. Smart cookie


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Perhaps you aren't banding low enough? If you band _below_ the horn ridge, they shouldn't grow back.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am NOT impressed with the wire saws. I was told they did great and burned as it went yatta yatta. No it sucked!!! My cows horn grows down then into her face so I bought the wire saw. It did fine on the actual horn but once we hit blood it wouldn't saw any more. It was horrible  she was bleeding and we were running around looking for a back saw (which we were told wouldn't work) we found one and it went right threw, we heated the branding iron up and stopped the bleeding. So the next time she had to be done we just used a hand saw. 
Basically what I'm saying lol is I'm not sure if we are talking about a little scur or what but if there's blood in there I personally would t use the wire saw 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We tried a wire saw..the scur fell off before we could even get a good cut...Stephanie, sometimes its better to just let them have a funky scur then to keep trying lol, she is going to hate you ever touching her..I do understand how unsightly they can be..I have one saanen/boer cross that has one horn lol...she is such a pretty doe but that one horn really throws it off...but if you want to go one last time..you need to cut a ridge on the horn head lump thingy (?)just under the horn...place two bands on there and tape to secure...then when they fall off you can burn them to be sure you got everything...I would give a little Banamine before proceeding and I would give tetanus antitoxin.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I may just try to get the majority....

Lacie...can you show me where that would be? Do you have a pic?

Jessica....that stinks....glad you were able to fix it.

Cathy....I may leave Alex's for that reason....one is a full out horn and the other is cracked and loose at the bottom but curls in at the top....this is when I first got him...he's improving slowly......what would you do with that one?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/bandinghorns.html
That's the way I do it, see how low the bands go. I haven't had any regrowth by doing it that way. So if you can't do the cutting, etc, maybe make a roll with a piece of duct tape, and then tape that there and set the bands below it so the tape holds it in place? If that makes sense?


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

This is all good information, but don't read it during lunch break, and now I know I will not be banding any horns. ick, I didn't want horns but I do have a few and so far have caused no problems... Good luck, hope it all works out for her.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/bandinghorns.html
> That's the way I do it, see how low the bands go. I haven't had any regrowth by doing it that way. So if you can't do the cutting, etc, maybe make a roll with a piece of duct tape, and then tape that there and set the bands below it so the tape holds it in place? If that makes sense?


Yeah, we didn't go into skin....just at the base of the horn sticking up over the skull....grrr.....wish I had realized it. Should I still do that now?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

lovinglife said:


> This is all good information, but don't read it during lunch break, and now I know I will not be banding any horns. ick, I didn't want horns but I do have a few and so far have caused no problems... Good luck, hope it all works out for her.


:laugh: Not good lunch material,eh?

The only reason I did hers is because of her nervous flighty way of swinging her head around(she spooks easy and is kind of an airhead at times..lol)....I have one Nubian doeling with horns and have had 2 bucks with horns too. They don't bother me as a rule...just depending on the goats personality.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I can understand that for sure. I don't generally have a weak stomach but ....heh didn't make my lunch taste very good. not saying that is a bad thing! LOL I could stand to skip a meal or two!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

hehehe  

Thinking I will leave my bucks horn and scur....but hers I am going to get off! By hook or crook....lol


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/bandinghorns.html
> That's the way I do it, see how low the bands go. I haven't had any regrowth by doing it that way. So if you can't do the cutting, etc, maybe make a roll with a piece of duct tape, and then tape that there and set the bands below it so the tape holds it in place? If that makes sense?


Do you need to use the lidocaine? Could I use banamine for pain and tetanus antitoxin instead wit this method?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

The problem with hers is I have not been banding low enough....I never cut through skin....only horn...wish I had a disbudding iron...I'd wire saw and then burn....of course I'd use banamine before doing that.
Her one scur will grow into her head if I leave it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

for Alex...is the crack around the base or long way? if its loose he may end up knocking it off himself...hows it improving?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Do you need to use the lidocaine? Could I use banamine for pain and tetanus antitoxin instead wit this method?


Lidocaine numbs the head, so yes its best to use it,you are not cutting deep but its still painful...and banamine to help reduce pain as the numbness wears off..


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

NyGoatMom said:


> :laugh: Not good lunch material,eh?
> 
> The only reason I did hers is because of her nervous flighty way of swinging her head around(she spooks easy and is kind of an airhead at times..lol)....I have one Nubian doeling with horns and have had 2 bucks with horns too. They don't bother me as a rule...just depending on the goats personality.


I think I'm near you. I have a disbudding iron.



NyGoatMom said:


> The problem with hers is I have not been banding low enough....I never cut through skin....only horn...wish I had a disbudding iron...I'd wire saw and then burn....of course I'd use banamine before doing that.
> Her one scur will grow into her head if I leave it.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

happybleats said:


> for Alex...is the crack around the base or long way? if its loose he may end up knocking it off himself...hows it improving?


It goes around the base of his horn....and the tip curls..it feels loose.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

rebelINny said:


> I think I'm near you. I have a disbudding iron.


Whereabouts are you rebel?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

he most likely will knock that off himself in play...does it looks like it cracked do to injury or crumbly, thin walled like...?? Im wondering if its a mineral defect or not..if the walls are weak..almost feels hollow then I would think mineral defect...and once he knocks it off it should grow back ..I had a doe whose horn was shredded looking..weak and hollow...it grew back stronger...I didnt keep her long enough to see how it fuly turned out...but it looked good.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I've got several younger goats whose horns are coming in much thicker and healthier since I got them.


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm in Canaan. On the mass border


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thought I'd post recent pics of Madeline...she now weighs 130 lbs and is giving 3/4 of a gallon daily as a FF. She had a very healthy set of twin bucks this year, one weighed 13 lbs and the other 10 lbs. We still are fighting the scurs but I am buying an iron to burn at least the one that keeps trying to grow into her eye...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow... She's grown


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

oh yeah...she's my biggest girl now...lol


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow she's a pretty gal


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Laura...these pics aren't flattering but they show how much she has changed  So there is hope for slow starters


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

She really has changed ! My goodness she looks great , amazing how she filled in ! 
You should put a side by side of before an now of her


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Here ya go...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She looks depressed in that last pic...lol...but it's just how I took the pic...she was fine


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> She looks depressed in that last pic...lol...but it's just how I took the pic...she was fine


She was mad you didn't let her strike a pose...lol.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Actually...she was peeved that I took a pic of her with her horns banded and all blue koted.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Well that was rude !


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

hahaha :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

:shocked: :shocked: Oh my goodness!!! She did a complete 180! She's really grown into a gorgeous doe, you did an amazing job with her  cant even tell she was ever that skinny little thing
Do you remember how old she was in the first pic? How old is she now? 2 going on 3?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:lol: Thanks! She was about 6 months old in the first pic...yes she is 2 going on 3 now. She is special to me...it's been a long road!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She looks great!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Karen...right now I am rebanding her scurs...hoping to burn the bases so they don't come back..or if they do, not as quickly.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> She could catch up later. You may not see it initially and then all of a sudden she will.


You were so right all those years ago Karen!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow! That is inspiring! I am quick to move young does that get dragged down and growth slows but this is great proof that they really can catch up later on


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

^^^^^amazing!!!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

SalteyLove said:


> Wow! That is inspiring! I am quick to move young does that get dragged down and growth slows but this is great proof that they really can catch up later on


Thanks Katey 



Jessica84 said:


> ^^^^^amazing!!!


Isn't she great? She is really deep bodied too!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'm kinda late to this thread but, wow, she looks great!!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Suzanne!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I had two does that were in bad shape as kids. One had cocci badly the other one dam got mastitis and lost half her udder. They are now two of my better looking does! At one point I thought I was going to have to sell them. So seeing ones like your girl really warms my heart because I totally understand the disappointment at the time


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Kindred spirits


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She looks great!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Wow, she looks amazing now!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Goat_Scout said:


> Wow, she looks amazing now!


Thank you! It took a few years to get her to her potential.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

NyGoatMom said:


> Thank you! It took a few years to get her to her potential.


She is so lucky to have you.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I keep seeing the title “very disappointed in my doeling” but when I click on the thread I see an absolutely beautiful doe and think, “if she’s disappointed, she must be really picky!” Then I remember the back story and realize the title is outdated, LOL. That is an impressive piece of work you did with this doe! Keep it up!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ranger1 said:


> I keep seeing the title "very disappointed in my doeling" but when I click on the thread I see an absolutely beautiful doe and think, "if she's disappointed, she must be really picky!" Then I remember the back story and realize the title is outdated, LOL. That is an impressive piece of work you did with this doe! Keep it up!


Hahahaha...that made me laugh! Thank you, it was worth it.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Goat_Scout said:


> She is so lucky to have you.


And I am to have her too! She is an awesome doe


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Here ya go...


Beautiful doe


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Janeen


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