# Re: Pretty Please to many questions



## Gumtree

I'm trying to decide what breed of dairy goat buck to get
out of 
British Alpine
Toggenburg
Saanen
Anglo Nubian
Melaan
Aust Brown

and I'm trying to find photos of them...they don't have to be good...but i can't find any that aren't blurry...
so wondered if anyone would be willing to let me have a look at there photos
via email/website/link i don't care 

And any info on them you know weather there grumpy etc and are they hard to contain, you know some breeds are worse than others

I am aware that most people wont have any info on the browns & melaans but that don't matter


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## SDK

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

i get bored and cruise around foreign goatwebs.. I LOVE the Melaans and the browns.. pretty interesting breeds IMO. I'll try to back trace my old web findings


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## SDK

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

okay, so heres what i got:

http://www.dairygoatsqld.org.au/breeds.htm

they're got the aussie goats!


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

yeah I've been though all that stuff, I'm more looking for other people experiences with them and informal photos


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

So has no-one got any advice for me? Looks like I going to learn the hard way :-(


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

I dont have any of the listed breeds, except Nubian, but theyre still babies


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## crocee

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

I too have a Nubian but shes not an Anglo Nubian.


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## capriola-nd

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

Wish I could help but I only know Nigerian and Pygmy goat temperaments. I hear Saanen goats are really sweet with gentle-natures but I don't know about bucks. . . .

Nigerian bucks, for the most part, are soooo sweet! But not on your list. . .


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*



capriola-nd said:


> Wish I could help but I only know Nigerian and Pygmy goat temperaments. I hear Saanen goats are really sweet with gentle-natures but I don't know about bucks. . . .
> 
> Nigerian bucks, for the most part, are soooo sweet! But not on your list. . .


Because nigerians are not in this country


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## capriola-nd

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

:doh:

I didn't even look where you live. . . sorry about that.

If I were you, I'd go for the Saanens (I've always loved them though). I hear pretty much only good things about them. Toggenburgs I have heard have odd tasting milk (more goaty than other breeds), although I have heard good things about their temperament. Not so sure on the others. . .

Maybe if you cannot find enough information on temperaments, get a young buck who you can work with and try to "train"?

Hope you can find the right breed!


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

thats ok, partly my fault, i should have put the country under my profile pic 

I'm tossing up weather to go British Alpine or Saanen


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## StaceyRosado

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

BA Alpines are very hard to come by in your country from what I seem to be gathering from Keren. So you could help get a corner on the market with them or it could be a flop if you have a buck that no one wants to use.

Now Saanens seem to be the most developed breed over there and very widely known and used -- this could go in your favor or against you depending on the demand.


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos*

saanens are really neat, very friendly. toggenburgs are the only goats i've seen actually bite each other, kinda always angry. lol


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos added the reason why*

I though I'd just give you's a quick run down on what I'm aiming at so you got a bit more understanding
Briefly
I want to get a fairly good size herd (about 40-50)of dairy does,
and breed them, grow there doe kids out to when they're milking, train them to bail
and sell them as Certified organic milking goats

so thats it in a nutshell, 
(will probably take me 20 year to accomplish this) onder:

so as I will be using does of all the above poll breeds...
I don't know what is going to be the best buck breed, 
I'm tending away from nubians as,I think all my goats will end up looking like nubians,
Toggs i've heard can be cranky and hard to fence in.
Melaans & Browns i find look a bit plain

So It's British Alpine or Saanen ...if I go saanen is it likely that all the kids will be white? As Australia is hot & I'm worried about sunburn????

So that's why I am wanting other peoples advice, but apparently there's not many people have these breeds of dairy goats, on this forum anyway


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## StaceyRosado

*Re: Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos added the reason w*

unless you clip them white goats dont get sunburned. Correct all Saanens are white. Now sure if you have a sable registry but from time to time you may get a colored saanen and then it would be considered a sable.

I know ******* acres breeds saanens.

British Alpines are not available in the US we have French Alpines - there are a few breeders of alpines on this board.


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## nutmegfarm

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos added the reason why*

I would suggest saanens, that's what I breed and they're great producers with good personalities! :stars:


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## Gumtree

*Re: Pretty Please Dairy Goat Photos added the reason why*

So it's seems to be tending to that saanen,

Obviously they are popular,



StaceyRoop said:


> unless you clip them white goats dont get sunburned. Correct all Saanens are white. Now sure if you have a sable registry but from time to time you may get a colored saanen and then it would be considered a sable.


So what about there udders & nose's we have around 35deg Celsius 
for most of the Year here,
yeah we do have sables,...might look at them 



StaceyRoop said:


> BA Alpines are very hard to come by in your country from what I seem to be gathering from Keren. So you could help get a corner on the market with them or it could be a flop if you have a buck that no one wants to use.


I have a BA stud about 20 minutes away from me,and there are others, so that is not a problem,
maybe Keren being in another state has more problems ?

Does anyone know if I'm crossing a saanen buck , over the other breeds listed, will the white color be predominate ,

And can I registered crossbred kids etc saanen x BA ?


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## RowdyKidz

I would just like to say a friend of mine has a huge French Alpine wethers and he is an absolute SWEETHEART. Alpine's can be a bit stubborn at times and can also be hard to work with. But I would definitely go with the Alpine.


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## lissablack

My vet has a herd of Saanens about the size you are talking about and he got to it by having a bunch of breeds and getting rid of them gradually until he was left with Saanens and a few Oberhaslis, who are not part of your considerations. He had them all and chose the Saanens pretty much. I don't know about Australia, but New Mexico has some pretty serious sun and high temps in the summer, we are at a fairly high altitude (4800 feet), so that makes it worse, it is important that they can get out of it if they need/want to. I think this would be true of any goat.

Good luck with your plan!

Jan


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## keren

sorry sorry sorry I didnt see this before.

okay here goes:

1) saanen vs ba.

saanens are the most numerous breed in australia, therefore they have the largest gene pool and it is easier to find a very very good one. having said that there are also some mighty horrible ones around. the result of people breeding white bush goats that conform to the 'breed standard' and having them registered app D (I'll explain that further down). they tend to milk the most out of all the breeds; although again if you get a very average one they will milk horribly. they tend to have a milk that tastes very similar to cows milk and is somewhere in between full cream and skim milk in terms of richness. they can and do get sunburnt - on the ears, udder, nose, vulva etc and that is something to watch out for. saanens tend to adapt very well to being 'stall kept' or backyard goats, and they also adapt well to being range (paddock/pasture) goats.

ba's are one of the minority breeds; they have a small gene pool and as such it can sometimes be more difficult to find them, and to find really good ones. however, they are around. milk yield is right up there with the rest of the breeds, and ba's are known for having extended lactations, meaning they will milk through for two years without needing to be rejoined. the milk tastes similar to the saanen with a slightly higher fat level. you wont get the sunburn issues. they tend to be bigger than saanens and are said to be more suited to being 'range' goats, however I have had them 'stall kept' without too many worries.

2) In terms of crossbreeding. The DGSA has an upgrading program, which starts at Appendix D, then C, B, A and finally purebred. Basically, you can register any goat for App D regardless of parentage, as long as she conforms to the breed standard. So, if you have a white goat with sticking up ears, even if you dont know who her parents were, you can have her inspected (or send in a picture to the DGSA) and register her as App D. The same goes if you know the parentage, but the parents are two different registered breeds. It all comes down to what colour the kid comes out, and in terms of colour well its like Forrest Gump - you never know what you are going to get. I bred a saanen buck to a toggy doe twice and only got white kids. The third time I got a british alpine kid. Go figure. But specifically if you do the saanen x ba, you can get solid white (reg App D saanen), solid black (reg App D meelan), british alpine (App D) or ... you can get this ...



















Amazingly pretty, unfortunately unable to be registered since they dont conform to any breed standard (I'd love to have them recognised, they are gorgeous I think, although I dont know if they breed true to colour type or not)

Honestly if I were in your situation I would keep a mixed herd, some saanen does some ba does. I'd also keep a BA buck and a saanen buck (for 40 to 50 does). What I would do is breed the girls to the BA buck, and then the daughters of the BA buck are bred to the saanen buck. Then the daughters of the saanen buck are bred to the BA buck and so on (doesnt matter who grandpa is). You should get a lovely mix of colours, as I mentioned above, and really I think that would be beneficial as your potential clients can choose the colour and breed type that appeals most to them.

I can put you in touch with some breeders close by if you want. Alternatively, if ya happen to have a spare 1.3 mil lying around, why not just buy this place 

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Real-Esta ... e&AdOnTop=

haha, I love it, I want it.

Just a couple things to think about for this venture ...

realise that if you have 50 breeding does, you could get anywhere up to 150 kids per year, 75 doe kids, 75 buck kids. how do you intend to raise the kids? dam raise? if so, how will you make sure your kids are human friendly and handle-able - thats an awful lot of kids to be handling daily. if bottle feeding, how are you going to accomplish this in large numbers? and how will you manage the milking of the mums? what will you do with buck kids? I'm not intending to degrade you, I think its a brilliant idea, I'm just throwing some considerations out there. It will be a lot of work.


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## Gumtree

keren said:


> Possible Purchases
> I can put you in touch with some breeders close by if you want. Alternatively, if ya happen to have a spare 1.3 mil lying around, why not just buy this place
> 
> http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Real-Esta ... e&AdOnTop=
> 
> haha, I love it, I want it.
> 
> Haha thats about 20ks away from us
> and where i got my goats from, i'm sure he's got cae...if ya remember my first posts hi & part of my goat story...think thats what it was called...well i got those goat from him :-(
> 
> Just a couple things to think about for this venture ...
> 
> realise that if you have 50 breeding does, you could get anywhere up to 150 kids per year, 75 doe kids, 75 buck kids. how do you intend to raise the kids? dam raise? if so, how will you make sure your kids are human friendly and handle-able - thats an awful lot of kids to be handling daily. if bottle feeding, how are you going to accomplish this in large numbers? and how will you manage the milking of the mums? what will you do with buck kids? I'm not intending to degrade you, I think its a brilliant idea, I'm just throwing some considerations out there. It will be a lot of work.


hang on hang on, i said it'd probably take me 20 years to accomplish this....
after what happened last time...I'm in no rush...i'm gunna go VERY SLOW...


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## keren

lol no worries

hmm, thats interesting about the commercial dairy having CAE, it actually makes me want it even more, mad scientist that I am, I would love to have 400 +ve does to play with


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## Gumtree

keren said:


> lol no worries
> 
> hmm, thats interesting about the commercial dairy having CAE, it actually makes me want it even more, mad scientist that I am, I would love to have 400 +ve does to play with


lol if ya ring him up...you be talking to him for ages...

it is a beaut property


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## keren

haha, well I dont even have $130 so no point ringing him up lol unless he wants to just GIVE the place to me ... 

I need a lotto ticket

the property does look beautiful, the dairy is amazing, the goats look lovely. I would be as happy as the proverbial pig ...


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## Gumtree

What Is Johnes Disease


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## keren

Johnes (pronounced yo - knees) is a chronic wasting disease that affects all cloven footed ruminants so sheep, cattle, goats, deer ... I'm not sure about alpacas. Infected animals begin to shed the infective organism in their faeces when they are about 18 mths old. Cattle show clinical signs of persistent scouring and weight loss. However goats tend to show no signs, although they are infected. They very rarely show any scouring. They tend to be 'poor doers' or ill thrifty animals, or they may show weight loss like cattle. What the disease does is thickens the wall of the intestine, to a point where the animal cannot absorb the nutrients from their food. Which is why they start to lose weight. Its incurable, it cannot be treated, and eventually it is fatal - the disease progresses to the point where the animal derives no nutritional benefit from their food and so they begin to waste away. Its a horrible disease. The general rule of thumb is that animals pick up the disease when they are young - up to 18 mths, and then after 18 mths they start shedding the disease causing organisms in their faeces. 

The organism can survive in the soil for up to 7 years which is why its such a difficult disease to eradicate once you have it on the property. 

Goats can contract the cattle form (Bovine Johnes disease or BJD) as well as the sheep form (Ovine Johnes Disease or OJD). 

Tests for JD can be done by blood sample or faecal sample - faecal is more accurate but takes a whole lot longer and is usually more expensive.


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## Itchysmom

Remeber that I am new to goats..but, the lady I am getting my doe from has a Saanen and a Nubian/Saanen cross. She bred both to a Saanen buck and both had triplets this year. Her pure Saanen is an excellent milker with great teats. The Nubian cross is not milked as she doesn't have good enough teats, so I am told. Anyway, we have nubians and Saanens in my area and the Saanens are the better milkers from what I hear. Hope that helped!


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