# dog won't stop biting goat



## gluperr (Jun 21, 2014)

I have a 6 month old pygmy goat as well as a german Shepard puppy. we got them both as babies and have been raising them together. we put them outside during the day together and bring them in during the night. during the day me and my family have noticed that the german Shepard is biting on the goats back legs and collar as well as constantly pushing her around. she has been getting little bumps where the dog had bit her and I fear one day she may severely injure her. any tips or ideas on how to keep our german Shepard from biting and pushing around the pygmy goat? we've already tried building a two story dog/goat house where the goat can get away from the dog if needed, we've also tried separating them but the goat cries continuously without her companion. thanks for your help!


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## gluperr (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm new here and didn't know where to ask this question. I don't know if I did this right. lol, sorry!!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Welcome!  To be honest, your goat needs a goat. They get along now, but later on things might not work out so well. Already your puppy is chewing on her, and it could only get worse from there. Your kid will be so much happier with a goat friend, they can hop and jump together and head butt. 

I wouldn't crate them together anymore due to the puppy biting. You don't want to wake up to a severely injured goat! keep them in seperate crates next to each other, for companionship minus the risks. Then supervise the puppy during the day, and immediately correct bad behavior such as biting and aggression.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

German Shepherds are herding breed dogs. They are bred to chase and have a very high prey drive. There's probably no way this will have a happy ending with out hours of training on the pup and the goat being put outside with another goat companion.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I agree. This won't end well soon. If the goat has bumps on it, you better have the goat checked out to make sure they aren't infected bites. Your goat needs a goat buddy. The puppy needs training and only be with the goat when supervised.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Get the dog away from the goat. GDs have their origin in being herding dogs. Not only that but a dog just bred to be a pet shouldn't be out with a goat like that. Unsupervised or not it's a recipe for disaster.

Goats are herd animals and require other goats for company.

http://www.homegrownandhandmadethebook.com/2014/06/debunking-9-ill-conceived-notions-about.html?m=1

Check out the article above that explains why it's best to have two goats. The writer has done a lot of research into goats and even has two books about goats endorsed by Mother Earth News.

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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

Puppies are not goats - the biting and chasing are how puppies play together - the goat will get hurt because a dog plays too rough for a baby goat-


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

You probably should separate these two very soon and get another goat as companion for the one you have. The puppy is only doing what puppies do as far as biting the goat, but obviously the goat is being hurt if teeth marks are being left. The goat has no way to protect itself from the dog.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

PLEASE separate them IMMEDIATELY and *get another goat* for your doeling as a buddy!! Goats are prey animals, dogs are predators, this is not going to end well. It's even worse for the fact that German Shepard's are herding animals, not livestock guardians. They are bred to chase and herd animals. The goat is already getting injured on a daily basis, it will only get worse as the puppy gets bigger than the goat.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

I agree you should get another goat but I dont agree nothing can be done. I have a german shepherd mix and a Australian shepherd who I walk with both of my goats daily.
But because the puppy is so young you need to get another goat and separate them for now. Get your puppy in obedience school when he is old enough and make sure he listens to you! You should never leave them alone together but they can be friends with supervision. My dogs do fine and my mix was the only one to attempt anything and once he was punished over it he hasn't even shown a sign of aggression towards them. Your puppy is likely teething and doesn't understand what he's doing so you do need to keep them separate.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Regardless of the breed , its a puppy who is treating the goat like a litter mate. If your pup was taken earlier from its litter then normal , it hasn't learned bite inhibition , so its being as rough as it can be with your little goat cause the goat cannot tell it ( by biting back or whining ) that its play is too rough. Your goat will end up being a squeaky toy for this puppy . There is no amount of training that is going to teach it to not do this. Have you felt a puppy's teeth ? Those are extremely sharp. Please don't put your goat through this and take her/him away for the puppy. YOU need to spend time with this puppy and socialize it.
Leaving them together for companionship is wrong on so many levels.
Please remove the puppy from this goat pen , your puppy thinks this poor goat is a toy and is treating it as such. Its definitely on you to protect them both form harm. IMO , your sacrificing the goat .
Enjoy them both , but separately. And , most importantly , your goat needs other goats. Please think about this. There are goats that can learn to live without other goats , yes . YOU have to have all the time in the world to spend with them when they are young. Leaving your goat with a puppy isn't going to fulfill that at all. Maybe you just need to rethink this


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree, separate them, not a good combination. Get the kid a goat friend instead.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If the dog was older and more mature I would argue and say it would be fine to keep them together but I agree she is young and really doing nothing wrong but will hurt the kid. The puppy is playing and that's what puppies do but the kid won't stand a chance 


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

When a LGD is put in with livestock, the dog gets taught usually by the livestock NOT bite or chase them. This is why its good to put a younger dog in with say a herd of goats so they teach it, its place in the hierarchy. Being both babies and the goat being over powered by the dog, its up to you to teach it. The dog needs to associate pain/punishment with biting and or chasing the goat. If you dont teach it now, you are going to most likely have bad problems later on.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Aw, what a cute picture!
I disagree with those who say that nothing can be done, or that it will only get worse. I have trained/helped train 4 dogs to be respectful of animals. IME almost any dog can be trained. Dogs are really smart and can pick up on almost anything.
However. She IS a puppy, and puppies can be _very persistent._ Supervise them every minute they are together. Discipline the puppy whenever she bites the goat (either pop her on the nose and say "No," or shake her by the scruff and growl - whichever works). If you can't stop her from biting the goat, you'll have to separate them until she matures some more.
Maybe you can crate them in separate crates, side by side, until she learns.
It is true that a goat needs a companion. But IMHO, a dog can potentially be a great companion for a goat, especially so in your case since they have bonded so well at such an early age. If you can figure a way to keep them apart for a while without isolating them, and if the goat is happy, I see no reason to get another goat.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The puppy is old enough for obedience lessons. Spend the money and take the puppy to obedience classes. It will be critical for the dog to listen to your commands no matter what age when they are around livestock.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have a different opinion, if it is not a LGD breed for livestock. They should not be in with the goats without supervision what so ever. 
Even training LGP, takes constant 24/7 supervision and discipline as needed, as they grow and mature, it takes 1 year or more for some, to get that pup to know what they can and cannot do with the goat. I do agree, Adult goats help teach the pup. Not a good companion for a baby goat.

Here is a good link on the subject
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f184/german-shepherds-ldgs-123454/


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

I 100% agree with Toth. Non LGDs have no place with stock 




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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I look forward learning more about the training of LGDs and what it takes for them to become great guardians 

Pups need foundation training , its one of the most important things in its life. Without good foundation training , it can be a long road to retraining habits that the pup found rewarding. Like the baby goat trying to run from it or yelling. That just made it more fun for the pup.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Well , I have a Border Collie who I can trust whole heartedly with my herd , babies included. The same dog i cannot trust with ducks or fowl of any kind. He will kill them. His herding instinct isn't strong at all.
I have another one who i can trust to not hurt anyone , but she will keep them in a nice tight pile , without nipping or grabbing.

Depends on the dog , but I do agree , most dogs don't belong in the pens.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I had one Anatolian pup, I tried and tried to train to the goats, he would ignore my commands and chase a baby goat and drew blood. Once they draw blood, it is pretty much done. He thought it was fun, the more a goat would run, the more excited he would get. Luckily he didn't hurt the kid to bad but, I give him to someone that did not have livestock at all, he was very hard headed. Once in a while you may get those. His brother and sisters were fine. And he was bred for Livestock. 

Training is a lot of work, time, watching and correcting at the right moment. Supervised at all times, when he is out with the goats.
Or removed when I can't watch.
Adult Does slam the pup if he gets to close to their kids and teach the pup boundaries, I have seen this and it helps with training.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

He is laid back until a squirrel runs by :-D If the goats come over to him , he just lays there and ignores them. I have seen babies jump on him and he just gets up and moves. The only time he is in the pen is when i have him out with me….this way i know he isn't eating any ducks. But i would eave him in it if i had to .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Trickyroo said:


> Well , I have a Border Collie who I can trust whole heartedly with my herd , babies included. The same dog i cannot trust with ducks or fowl of any kind. He will kill them. His herding instinct isn't strong at all.
> I have another one who i can trust to not hurt anyone , but she will keep them in a nice tight pile , without nipping or grabbing.
> 
> Depends on the dog , but I do agree , most dogs don't belong in the pens.


I too have a border collie, he works the goats a good herding dog and will bring them in for me. I can't trust him alone with them, as his drive to herd them takes over after a while of being in with them. He will work them for hours, if I wasn't there to stop it. This can be very stressful to the goats. And border collies will "get a hold" if one stands off. Causing injury. 
That is when I learned, certain dog breeds do not belong with goats, especially unattended and removing them when you are not there to watch.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I agree , in the end , the smartest choice is to remove the dog when your not there 
I had the merl on sheep when he was young , he did well in the beginning , but he lost all interest in it . Now , if a goat or a sheep come up to him , he walks away , lol.
Its too much for him , he is a lover , not a chaser 

I wouldn't ever let my Collies chase my goats , ever.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

We got a baby sheep years ago and she hung out with our border collie Queensland. They would sleep together on the front step and every where he went she went. I have 5 border collies and Queensland cross dogs and when the goats go out to graze it's free range with those dogs and I trust them with those goats 100%. BUT we spend a ton of time with those dogs and they know if they snap or try and herd any animal without being told to their butt is grass. 
No one really thinks their loving dog can hurt anything. I was told a dog was a big sweet heart a minute before it took a hunk of my leg out. So I'm not saying trust your dogs right of the bat and some dogs can never be trusted.....border collie Queensland #6 is not trusted at all. But it's not impossible to have dogs and livestock together. You just need to take the time and teach the dog that no way can they be rough with animals. Playing or even defending them selfs since goats play by butting. And to also understand that no matter how sweet the dog is it can still snap or play. 


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I agree. I know my dogs , spent years training them for agility. They are always learning new things . I taught my very high drive Border Collie to not nip , it wasn't exceptable. She will herd till the cows come home . She is never left with any animal unattended. The one in the picture can be if i had to in a emergency , but my first choice would be to put him in the house. All he wants is to be with me , and he enjoys the occasional goat berry while in the pen , and a roll in the straw in their huts , lol. If a goat challenges him , he swiftly walks away. Its just his nature.
My high drive Collie , same thing , if a goat challenges her , she was taught to not react. I have seen a goat , a Nigerian who thinks its fun to bully my dogs and chase them , ram her and she just got out of dodge very fast. In a way i wish i didn't teach her not to nip or "make" them move. But , only sometimes does that enter my mind.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Pam , I checked out your website a while ago but never commented on it. I just want you to know it is very impressive , your horses , goats dogs are all gorgeous ! 
Very impressive


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

LOL, hey thanks, it is appreciated. ;-):thumb:


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

I think the point to remember with the OP is that they obviously don't understand what is involved with CREATING a safe interaction with this puppy and this doeling.

Nothing is ever "black and white", there are exceptions to the rules, both good and bad. This particular situation is a tragedy waiting to happen without intervention.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

^^ I totally agree. 

to the OP, please separate your puppy and doeling. your doeling CAN die of stress from being used as a puppy chew toy. it's not fair to her. get another goat companion for the goat, and train your puppy properly so he doesn't hurt your animals.

best of luck to you.


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## wwfarm (Jan 27, 2014)

Goats need other goats! There is no getting around it. When I sell goats to first time owners I only sell in pairs because of this.

I also have a pup who used to bite the goats. He is a very special disabled pit bull/Dalmation mix and I was getting pretty tired of SCREAMING at him--which is all that would work to get him to stop. I took him to obedience school--problem solved!! It worked wonders. He even earned his AKC Canine Good Citizen certification. Not bad for a partially paralyzed pup with severe neurological issues. A trained dog is a happy dog! The goats are his best friends now. He has become a pretty good herder and an excellent protector.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Aw, what a sweet guy  . Obedience school works wonders for trouble dogs, and the owner also becomes trained in leadership. It's a good investment no matter what purpose your dog has...


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Non LGDs have no place with stock


FTR, this is true sometimes, but it isn't that black and white. All 4 of our dogs (husky/lab, aussie/lab, aussie/GSD, and hound) do pretty well with our animals. The two Aussie crosses are the only ones I fully trust around the animals unsupervised. Even those two, I wouldn't expect to guard the animals 24/7 because they might get bored and decide to "play."

My Aussie/GSD, Amanda, is AWESOME with the animals. I've heard of GSDs that are very good with and protective of livestock, and others that aren't.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All I can say is, use your best judgment. If the pup is nipping, it will only lead to a bad outcome. 
Discipline when needed and constant supervision is a must if you have them together.
But I am truly cautious, as I have had bad outcomes and it isn't fun, so all I can do is warn others, my advice is out there as well as others, now it is up to you what you want to do with it.


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## Hodgson (Jan 7, 2014)

Poor goat really deserves another goat as a companion. Dogs are no substitute for a goat and she will become very lonely without a goat friend. 
I've read story after story of German shepherds attacking and killing all sorts of small livestock, such as poultry, sheep and goats. Most of these were dogs that showed no interest in the animals when the owners were present, but as soon as the dog was left alone those animals became prey. It would likely be best if you separate them now and teach the dog that the goat is off-limits from now on. It will probably end badly otherwise and that goat does not deserve to be bait just to see if your dog might be an exception to the rule. A GS is nowhere even close to a LGD. Please keep your goat safe.


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