# How do you help encourage a goat's body to produce more milk?



## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

We have three does who have had kids and are currently feeding their young (their babies are from two weeks old to 5 weeks old). The problem I am having is that I have not yet figured out how to encourage their little bodies to provide enough milk for their little ones _and_ myself, as I thought they were supposed to be dairy goats.

I am not an expert by far, and I may have been misled unintentionally, but I was under the impression that this particular breed gave a surprising amount of milk for their small size. Perhaps they meant a surprisingly small amount for a dairy goat instead of a large amount (and, for me, it truly is extremely surprising, as it is only about two ounces combined).

I did give them Purina Goat Chow at the time I was trying to milk them.

Mom #1 is 20 inches tall and has a large udder, but perhaps she has what is called a "meaty udder". It looks impressive, but it is rather deceiving, as I can only get about a tablespoon from her.

Mom #2 is the same height as Mom #1. She has an average udder size, but still only gives about two tablespoons.

Mom #3 is 19 in. tall. She also has an average udder size. We get two squeezes from her. :laugh:

They're very healthy, except Mom #1 requires more zinc than the others.

I have intentions of trading some of my goats for Saanens come June because a lady has decided she would like to only have small pet goats, but until then, can anyone offer advice on how to increase milk production?

Here are their genetics. It seems like a good line to me, but again, I'm not an expert. Did I purchase from bad lines and just get bad goats, or good lines and just get the rare lousy goats?

Son Rise Ranch Mom #1

Sire:*Rosasharn MR Stradivarius

Sire's sire: RosasharnSPMercury (ARMCH*Rosasharn FS Saporro *S*X*ARMCH**Rosasharn Eclipse 2*D,*Elipse was the 2005 AGS Nat'l Champion at 10 years old)

Sire's Dam:* Rosasharn Psuzuki (Doe-Sy-Doe's Patt'n x**ARMCH*Rosasharn's TL Unagi 4*D)

Dam:* Rosasharn CH S'More Kandi

Dam's Sire:* Rosasharn HNC UpRoar (Rosasharn UR Honey Nut Cheerio x*ARMCH*Rosasharn Uni)

Dam's Dam:**ARMCH*Rosasharn Tom's Bit-O-Honey(ARMCH*Goodwood Tom Thumb*+*S*x*ARMCH*Rosasharn Buckwheat Honey, 2007 AGS Nat'l CH Sr Doe)

Son Rise Ranch Mom #2

Sire:* Little Tots Estate Joi Choi

Sire's Sire:*Caesar's Villa LV*Eric**S* [Caesar's Villa Felicia's Levi**S(ARMCH*Caesar's Villa CBS Stetson*++*S*XARMCH*
Invale Felicia**D*VG 2003 AGS National Champion and Best Udder) X*Caesar's Villa Pons Ebony*7*D*(Caesar's Villa CBS Poncho*+*S*X Stonewall's Golden Cowgirl*6*D]

Sire's Dam: Little Tots Estate*Crocosmia**(PGCH/MCH/CH*SM3Pines JurEn's Swell Foop x* Little Tots Estate Thymus)

DAM: Rosasharn CH S'More Kandi**********************
Dam's Sire:* Rosasharn HNC UpRoar
Rosasharn UR Honey Nut Cheerio x*ARMCH*Rosasharn Uni

Dam's Dam:**ARMCH*Rosasharn Tom's Bit-O-Honey
ARMCH*Goodwood Tom Thumb*+*S*x*ARMCH*Rosasharn Buckwheat Honey, 2007 AGS Nat'l CH Sr Doe; ADGA 2010 Res.CH


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## ShannonM

In my opinion, those are some pretty good lines there  You did a good job picking them out!

Are you separating the babies from the mom's at all before you milk? If I don't separate, my babies keep the moms pretty empty.

Also, have they ever been milked before? And how do they behave on the milkstand? If they aren't comfortable or aren't used to you milking they may just not be letting their milk down for you.


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## happybleats

dairy goats need a lot more grain to produce milk than non airy goats....how much are they getting fed on the table? Alfalfa help with milk production..health, such as being worm free, stress free...good condition ...not too thin or too fat..also when you feel their udder ..if it is hard..they are congested and cant give much milk...they will need to be messaged and that milk brought down...the last thing is genetics..: ) Saanen are awesome milkers...our ladies give over a gallon in one milking


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

ShannonM said:


> In my opinion, those are some pretty good lines there  You did a good job picking them out!
> 
> Are you separating the babies from the mom's at all before you milk? If I don't separate, my babies keep the moms pretty empty.
> 
> Also, have they ever been milked before? And how do they behave on the milkstand? If they aren't comfortable or aren't used to you milking they may just not be letting their milk down for you.


Thank you for encouraging me about them coming from good lines. 

I didn't know that you were supposed to separate the babies from them. Will you share with me what the process is? I want our kids to be dam-raised, but would also enjoy a share of the milk.

We have tried to milk Mom #1, but she is a headache to milk. We have to hold a leg (or four!) down to milk her. It is, at the least, a two person job.

Mom #2 was milked successfully last year because her babies didn't make it, so she wasn't both nursing her babies and being milked. At the peak of production she was giving me a quart, but just barely.

Mom #3 is a first freshener, and doesn't complain about being squeezed two times. Two squirts and it's all gone...

How do I encourage them to let the milk down, and is that the gurgling sound I hear when the babies start nursing?


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## WalshKidsGoats

Those are very good lines. As asked before, are you separating the kids from the moms at night? If the kids are left with their mom her udder is usually mostly empty. Also, have you milked goats much before? When I first started I could barely get anything out! Here's what we do:
At the evening feeding we give our milking does grain and then we separate the kids from their moms at around 9:30 - 10:00pm. In the morning we milk and give more grain before letting the kids back in with them.

Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

happybleats said:


> dairy goats need a lot more grain to produce milk than non airy goats....how much are they getting fed on the table? Alfalfa help with milk production..health, such as being worm free, stress free...good condition ...not too thin or too fat..also when you feel their udder ..if it is hard..they are congested and cant give much milk...they will need to be messaged and that milk brought down...the last thing is genetics..: ) Saanen are awesome milkers...our ladies give over a gallon in one milking


We are feeding them a fourth of a cup of grain. We let them out in the pasture all day long, which is why I did not think I was supposed to give them large amounts of grain. But have I been wrong?

They certainly haven't been starving, as they eat...and eat...and eat...take a siesta to chew the cud...and eat...and eat... They are worm free, and life is very stress-free for them. All they have to do is run around on four acres merrily and eat...and eat...and eat. They seem neither too fat nor too slim.

As far as their udder goes, they seem nice, soft and pliable. Mom #1 has a large udder, but it's all for looks.

I have not tried to massage the udders. The only thing I did was bump them like their babies do in hopes of making her think I was a baby needing milk?

Thank you very much for being willing to help me.

I look forward to my Saanens, because I feel like even if I mess up I'll get more than two tablespoons. I hope.


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## WalshKidsGoats

Ha! we posted at the same time! 
We have one doe that is a PAIN to milk. One person has to hold one of her back legs up while the other milks. Then she's fine. It can take them quite a while to get used to being milked. Have you tried hobbles? In my experience with them they only work on doe that kick just a little, if the doe really kicks then they can usually slip right out of them.
If you separate the kids then their udders will be full and the milk will come out easier. If she seems to be holding some milk back then you can gently "bump" the udder. Gently though, like the kids do when they nurse.

Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
www.walshkidsgoats.com
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## WalshKidsGoats

They need more grain, we give ours two cups at night and three in the morning.

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www.walshkidsgoats.com
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## sweetgoats

I don't have dairy goats but I will say if they are only getting a fourth a cup of grain they need a lot more then that. They will need to be feed good grain twice a day and good alfalfa hay. 
I would also offer them Molasses water. It is sweet so they will or hope they drink it up. Make it a strong tea color.


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## happybleats

Yep..up the grain slowly...we pull the kids off at night at 2 weeks old if they are doing well...we have a safe kids pen for them to stay the night..we then milk mom out in the morning and let her have her babies the rest of the day. First few days are hard on both baby and mom...they cry and call each other..soon mom is looking around for you asking.."Hey isnt it time you come get the kids?" lol I think they like the break : ) 
In the kids pen we have mineral, baking soda, hay..fresh water and we begin them on just a little grain...not too much at first....sometimes its still there in the morning in the beginning..just toss it...dont want to chance goat polio : )


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## WalshKidsGoats

That's one nice kid pen happybleats! We are building ours at the moment  For now ours go in a little cage with water and grain. We don't separate them until around 9:00pm so they usually just sleep in there anyway 

Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
www.walshkidsgoats.com
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## serenityfarmnm

Definitely more grain!


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

WalshKidsGoats said:


> Those are very good lines. As asked before, are you separating the kids from the moms at night? If the kids are left with their mom her udder is usually mostly empty. Also, have you milked goats much before? When I first started I could barely get anything out! Here's what we do:
> At the evening feeding we give our milking does grain and then we separate the kids from their moms at around 9:30 - 10:00pm. In the morning we milk and give more grain before letting the kids back in with them.
> 
> Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
> www.walshkidsgoats.com
> Like us on Facebook!


Thank you for the encouragement as well about the lineage being good, I first thought it was of extreme importance to make sure the lines were good, but now I am thinking it may need to be a combination of good lines and milk records ( I never understood the importance of milk records until now ).

I was not separating them at all. I truly thought that they would just give milk regardless of where their babies were. I am glad you shared with me that they would remain pretty empty if they were to have their babies with them all the time.

We have only had about 4 months experience in milking and that was early last year (But the mom lost her babies so she was not trying to give them and us milk at the same time. And may I add that she was nice to milk as I did not have to give her grain for her to let me milk; she just stood there waiting patiently for me to finish).

Thank you for posting your schedule. I do not see a problem with mixing things up a bit to see if it will work for us too.


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## happybleats

Thanks walshkidgoats ,,, its been used alot in the last 7 /2 years lol! could use a bit of TLC LOL We now have 20 kids and the pen is split in two..one for frisky boys the others for the ladies : )


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

WalshKidsGoats said:


> Ha! we posted at the same time!
> We have one doe that is a PAIN to milk. One person has to hold one of her back legs up while the other milks. Then she's fine. It can take them quite a while to get used to being milked. Have you tried hobbles? In my experience with them they only work on doe that kick just a little, if the doe really kicks then they can usually slip right out of them.
> If you separate the kids then their udders will be full and the milk will come out easier. If she seems to be holding some milk back then you can gently "bump" the udder. Gently though, like the kids do when they nurse.
> 
> Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
> www.walshkidsgoats.com
> Like us on Facebook!


I did look at the goat who was not fun to milk and determined it was not worth my time and effort, but then I decided to obtain more information on the subject to see if there was allot of user error and perhaps milking may become more of an enjoyable experience.

Funny you mentioned the hobble as my husband told me he saw goat handcuffs in the Hoegger Supply magazine, and I did not believe him! But when I looked in the magazine, I found what he was speaking of, and thought it may be good to go ahead and purchase a couple.

Thank you for sharing with me your thoughts, as I am more encouraged to move ahead with some new ways to improve my success.


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

WalshKidsGoats said:


> They need more grain, we give ours two cups at night and three in the morning.
> 
> Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
> www.walshkidsgoats.com
> Like us on Facebook!


 Thank you very much for being willing to help me. With our goats browsing all day would they need the same amount that you feed your little ones? Ours are Nigerians as well. I am trying to make sure I do not make a mistake, because I had read somewhere that too much grain is not good. The problem is, I have no idea what too much is. I grew up pretty close to Atlanta, and did not even know what 4H was until I was in my late twenties; so I was not raised among livestock, nor did I know of anyone who had livestock.
I truly thought you could by milk goats and let them out all day to eat up unwanted brush, then milk them and that was it. I thought the grain was to keep the goats happy and still in order to make milking a more enjoyable task.
If I am understanding correctly, at least with this particular breed, they need not only to browse, but also to be supplemented with grain so that they may be able to produce enough milk for people and their own babies. 
I originally understood (but may have unknowingly misunderstood) that milking goats were milking goats because they had the capacity to not only feed their babies well, but also give a somewhat generous amount to the owner as well. There was nothing in what I read stating that they must always be fed grain to be able to have extra milk for the owner.
Whew, I am glad I am asking and y'all are kind enough to help as I believe I may have some misconceptions, or I may have the wrong breed of goat. When I get my Saanens come June will they be able to give me extra milk with out allot of grain?
I do not mind giving grain, but I would like to try to make sure I am not overfeeding. If I mess up there are not any vets around here that really understand anything about goats, so I feel like it would be the blind leading the blind, and the poor goat would then become more of a guinea pig.


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

sweetgoats said:


> I don't have dairy goats but I will say if they are only getting a fourth a cup of grain they need a lot more then that. They will need to be feed good grain twice a day and good alfalfa hay.
> I would also offer them Molasses water. It is sweet so they will or hope they drink it up. Make it a strong tea color.


Thank you very much for helping me as well. I have asked one of the other ladies to help me figure out how much grain to give (in so many words) but may I please ask how the molasses water helps? My first thought was that it would encourage them to drink more water in order to be able to produce a larger volume of milk, am I correct?


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

serenityfarmnm said:


> Definitely more grain!


Thank you as well for your help 

If I understood correctly, your picture stated you are new as well, but I would still value any information you have. I particularly wish to know how much brush your goats eat and the amount of grain you feed along, with any information on how much milk you are able to obtain and if they nurse their little ones.

We have county extension agents, but our county, along with the surrounding county agents, were of no value in this area for me, as they are not knowledgeable about dairy goats. On top of that, 4H in Georgia does nothing with dairy goats, although a few show Boers (this was told to me by the county 4H leader).


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## happybleats

Hummmm??...unless they are not drinking water and are de hydrated...Im not sure why molasses water was suggested : ) Too much molasses can cause the runs so we only use it when they need water and wont drink..need a quick source of energy : )


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## HummingbirdMeadowGoats

Thank you to everyone who was able to help and share what worked for them.

I found some information (on the amount of grain fed to a doe) that seemed to look like a good rule of thumb, as the lady has Nigerians as well and strives to obtain at least a quart of milk per day (if I read it correctly). She gives 2 cups of goat chow (along with a couple of other items) twice per day if the goat is feeding twins, and adjusts up to a maximum of 4 cups twice a day (if needed).


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## WalshKidsGoats

I'm sure that if you separated the kids for the night and then milked in the morning you would still get more milk even without feeding grain. The grain just gives the doe more nutrients allowing her to make more milk. It also helps with keeping weight on the does. If she gets grain then she can turn the grain into milk instead of having to tap into her fat stores to produce milk if that makes sense!  Two cups a day sounds like a good amount to start with. If they start to get thin you can increase the amount. It is also important that you increase the amount of grain slowly.

Usually they get used to being milked after a couple of weeks and a few spilled milk buckets. It can be very frustrating but it is important to stay with it! They will settle down eventually. If they are being difficult it's a good idea to milk a little and then transfer it to another container so that if they kick the pail over you won't lose all of the milk. 

I hope I answered everything! I'm SURE you will get a good amount of milk with those pedigrees if you try these tips 

Quality Nigerian Dwarf Goats
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## Steskaprukov

Hi there! I noticed in reading that neither you nor anyone else mentioned cleaning off the udder first. A warm- wet washcloth- that you use to gently clean off the udder-liek a massage-does wonders in helping the goat settle down and let her milk down. The first couple of squirts I discard just in case there's any dirt up inside. (Our cat loves that!) 

I'm currently milking my Sannen mix. She's a first freshener and June will make 1 year for her in milk. I plan to dry her up by then though. She had twins last June and I began milking her without a stand. It was quite the pain but I was determined. Having a stand definately made it go much smoother.

My goats have an acre and half to roam for foraging. Right now it's greening up great and they're out there eating constantly so I've just lowered the amount of grain they get. Something no one has said is depending on what your goats eat- the milk could be affected. Oak leaves and acorns can make the milk bitter or give it an after taste. Grain and alfalfa make for very good milk and keep the doe in good weight at the same time.

I actually add a half ounce of Diatamacious Earth to my doe's grain a week out of every month to naturally deworm them and have noticed they look better than ever since I began doing this. 

Everyone says to bump your doe gently like the kids do. Am I the only one that winces when watching the kids SLAM into their mother's udders? Obviously I don't slam into my doe's udders the way their demanding kids do because it seems like they'd get bruised. Maybe I'm just more sensitive because I'm currently nursing an infant and I just think "OW!" A truly gentle thump up here and there does allow me to get the last little bit but here's something else to consider- if you are getting a good bit and your doe holds some back- well her kid will get that from her and everyone is happy. The older kid can do without but I don't mind allowing a doe to keep some back for her baby. I don't actually seperating my kids from their mothers until they're at least 2 months. 

Happy milking!


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## starrlinn

I was in your same shoes - but I read this thread - http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f183/milking-doe-feed-recipes-143790/ and put together the milking mix of poster - Lil - Bits and my girls have increased their milk supply substantially since then. Before that I was feeding them just a grain mix, but here's a quote from the original post -



> My does get purina dairy ration, noble goat, sweet cob, sunflower seeds, calf manna, and a few carrots at the end.
> I have massive milkers so they get 6lbs of grain mix a day. 3lb in the morning and 3lbs at night when milking.
> its normally
> 1lb of purina
> 1/2lb noble goat
> 1/2lb sweet cob
> 1/2lb sunflower seeds
> 1/2lb calf manna
> and then a carrot or 2
> 
> My supreme grand champion doe milks easly 3 gallons a day. All my other does (CH or not) are at least 2 and 1/2 gallon a day milkers.
> If they don't milk they don't stay, it cost just as much to feed a winner as it does to feed a looser.


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## starrlinn

btw - we went from getting only a few squeezes at each milking - they are nursing their kids full time - to getting at least a quart from one (the other's a first freshener and I'm not so good at milking her tiny teats) at each milking - and we only have been feeding them the new mix for only maybe 4 or 5 days. We don't separate our kids at night either. Though I'm thinking it's time to do it maybe.


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## WalshKidsGoats

I was just wondering if there has been an improvement? I hope so!

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## serpentbird

This is great stuff to know for the future when I allow my goats to breed. Has anyone used Goats Rue Herb to help with increasing milk production in goats? I hear it works wonders not only in goats but in cows and humans as well......I found a few articles and info pages, for example: http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_goats_rue.htm


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## 20kidsonhill

I didn't read through everything, sorry about that. And I don't have dairy. But we do have meat goats and we still need them to produce lots of milk to grow big kids. 
What we found works is a 2 to 1 ratio of grass hay and alfalfa hay, A 16% protein goat feed. When we didn't feel the pelleted goat feed was getting the job done, we started adding 1 cup of rolled corn and 1 cup of rolled oats per doe to their 2 lbs of grain a day and the udders got a lot bigger in just 3 or 4 days. You can over due the corn, but when it comes down to it, corn is what you need. Milk production requires a high energy intake and energy comes from corn. This needs to be balanced with other grains to prevent acidosis. 

That is my rough explanation of the answer. Not very techinical I realize, but more energy means more milk.


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## FarmerJen

It's already been said that 1/4c of grain is not enough for top milk production. I just wanted to point out, that even if they have ample browse, etc - that's almost irrelevant when talking about milk. It's not a matter of getting enough to eat. It's a matter of getting enough protein.

Mine dont get a TON of browse, but they share 2400sq ft of grass/shrub/tree area, so they always have _some_. I feed alfalfa hay exclusively in the summer (I add some grass hay for extra food in the winter). I use a 16% dairy mix. Last year was my first year, so I too was not giving enough at first, although once I tried to up it, I realized they really wouldn't eat more than 1 1/2c per milking. After that they were ready for me to be done, and left food in the pan (gasp! a goat, leaving food behind?!?!) LOL I did notice though that how much grain they took at one milking DIRECTLY affected the next milking. Also, if they were out of water for even a short time, they had far less milk (I got a bigger water bucket).

I'm really interested to see how it goes this year. They're due any day and I'm months into my milk drought. It's going to be SO nice to have it again! Now that I'm mixing BOSS & beet pulp into my grain, I'm hoping to have really great milk production this year. Never did get around to making cheese or anything last year - but I'm ON IT this time!


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## neubunny

A few notes that I haven't seen anyone else mention...

1) expect the Saanens to need grain too -- probably much more than the Nigerians. Our big alpines does get 4+ cups at each milking -- but Dolly gives more than a gallon of milk a day. 
2) it isn't just that the 'milk goats' can produce more than enough for their babies - it's that (if you are milking) they will STAY in milk much longer than the 12 weeks at which you typically wean the kids. Most stay in milk until you go out of your way to dry them up before the next birth - nearly a full year. Dolly's gone two full years in milk (skipping a year of breeding). In addition to being bred for milk production, they also tend to be bred for temperament -- the willingness to stand and let you milk. While it is perfectly possible to milk any goat breed, I can't see our others being willing to stand for that.


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## Susanne Tewes

We have Nigerian dwarfs Blunderosa , Dessert Nanny, and dill here in Arizona our nannys average a quart and a half a milking. We feed Noble Goat and Alfalfa They are in good condition maybe a little on the fat side but they produce wonderful rich and great quantities of milk however our mini la Manchas (F 4) give quite a bit more there milk is stronger but it is good for lots of different cheese yougart aamong other things


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## Susanne Tewes

Good maintenance is required for more milk. Copper bullets regular shots Salt and many more things


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## Susanne Tewes

We have a total of 10 goats 5 Nigerian Dwarfs and 5 Mini La Manchas Nigerian dwarf breed year around so we get 2 crops of kids mostly triplets Mini La Manchas only bred in the Fall so one kidding for them usually twins. You have to love your goats to get full production and every one of them are different


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## Susanne Tewes

Some of our goats will not dry up so we milk them year around Whwn they have new kids we dont use the milk for the first few days


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## happybleats

This is a very old thread.


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## toth boer goats

:nod::up:


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