# HELP



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

I have a 16 day old Nigerian dwarf. Up until last night she was doing a spectacular job of thriving. I woke up in the middle of the night to her screaming. There was no consoling her. She does not look bloated, she had very watery tan feces, but no blood. It is orange pudding since birth. She will not eat at all today. I normally feed her replacer 3x/day, approximately 4 to 6oz per. Electrolytes in between. She seems to have labored breathing/panting. Drooling, eyes open, jerks then resettles. She has not had a bowel movement at all since I woke up at 0645. I have been giving her electrolytes via 1ml syringe, gave her some baking soda, Pepto, occasionally she will scream, but she will not stand long, walk or eat. She does pee. It’s Sunday, I did call an emergency vet and we took her temperature it was 103.5, he did not see any reason to bring her in as he could not find anything wrong with her symptoms. The rest of her tribe is flourishing. None have any symptoms. I am at a loss and in tears. I don’t know what else to do. Please help me. I’m in tears.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What replacer are you using?


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> What replacer are you using?


Mannapro kid milk with probiotics


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Mannapro kid milk with probiotics


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would do electrolytes only for a day, then I would do whole cow milk. The fillers in the replacer just don't seem to work for goats.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> I would do electrolytes only for a day, then I would do whole cow milk. The fillers in the replacer just don't seem to work for goats.


Thank you! How much, how often? I'm having to force feed her atm. Whole milk from the store or raw, fresh?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Usually you would feed the same amount of electrolytes as milk but don't force it. Either from the store or fresh. Most people don't have access to fresh so if you do, that is great.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Thank you! How much, how often? I'm having to force feed her atm. Whole milk from the store or raw, fresh?


She is now letting out small whimpers. And cannot hold her own head up.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What is her temp?


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Is she dying in my arms?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Possibly. Unfortunately.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> What is her temp?


103.5


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Is her tummy hard and tight? Try a massage mostly on the left and see if she burps or passes gas she might be having a problem from the replacer. I'd stop it and just give her electrolytes for 24 hours and switch to whole cows milk with a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day. Make sure all fluids are at least 100 degrees as they can't handle anything cold at this age.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Is her mouth and tongue cold? What is her famancha score? Pull her eyelid down and see what color they are on the inside. At this point I would consult a vet. She does not sound well at all.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Is her tummy hard and tight? Try a massage mostly on the left and see if she burps or passes gas she might be having a problem from the replacer. I'd stop it and just give her electrolytes for 24 hours and switch to whole cows milk with a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day. Make sure all fluids are at least 100 degrees as they can't handle anything cold at this age.


Yes her little belly is hard and tight. I've been trying to massage her tummy & keep her standing. She seems to be getting weaker by the hour.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> Is her mouth and tongue cold? What is her famancha score? Pull her eyelid down and see what color they are on the inside. At this point I would consult a vet. She does not sound well at all.


Her mouth and tongue are warm. Her little eyelids are a gray-ish color. I have tried consulting the vet he says there's nothing he can do. I live so far out in the country there's no one else I can call.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Yes her little belly is hard and tight. I've been trying to massage her tummy & keep her standing. She seems to be getting weaker by the hour.


Sounds like she has bloat or overeating disease(enterotoxemia) Unfortunately, prognosis does not seem good.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Yes her little belly is hard and tight. I've been trying to massage her tummy & keep her standing. She seems to be getting weaker by the hour.


I have been massaging her little belly it is now soft and squishy but she cannot hold her own head up her eyes are twitching.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You have to keep her warm. A heating pad would work. We're you warming her bottles or giving it room temp? I'd give her some flat dark beer if you have it and maybe a little molasses to give her some energy with 1cc of vitamin b


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> You have to keep her warm. A heating pad would work. We're you warming her bottles or giving it room temp? I'd give her some flat dark beer if you have it and maybe a little molasses to give her some energy with 1cc of vitamin b


I would warm her bottles in a pot of water on the stove. Milk and electrolytes both were warmed up


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Once she is warmed up I would try and give her a few little balls of baking soda, mixed with mineral oil. It may not help her but wouldn't hurt her. Do NOT try to give this if you don't think she will swallow it though. Mix some oil (mineral is best but vegetable, coconut or olive oil can be used in an emergency) with some baking soda. Roll the slightly pasty baking soda into a little ball (about the size of a pea) and get it down her throat, if she swallows this well give her another 2-3 pea sized balls. If she will swallow, you can also give her an additional 3-5 cc of just oil but be VERY careful. If she does not swallow it she can choke and die.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> Once she is warmed up I would try and give her a few little balls of baking soda, mixed with mineral oil. It may not help her but wouldn't hurt her. Do NOT try to give this if you don't think she will swallow it though. Mix some oil (mineral is best but vegetable, coconut or olive oil can be used in an emergency) with some baking soda. Roll the slightly pasty baking soda into a little ball (about the size of a pea) and get it down her throat, if she swallows this well give her another 2-3 pea sized balls. If she will swallow, you can also give her an additional 3-5 cc of just oil but be VERY careful. If she does not swallow it she can choke and die.


 I was able to dissolve 1 teaspoon of baking soda into some water earlier before she got to this point of weakness. She just lets out random whimpers & she is throwing her head back, her body is stiffening. As if a seizure? I am afraid of what the reality of this situation is. Her breathing is very shallow. I'm just trying to keep her warm and pet her while she's in my lap. She will not swallow anything at this point electrolytes just to spill out of her mouth.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Yep. Just try and comfort her. Give her loves and pets. Was hoping you would get a better outcome. Had this exact same think happen to me 2 years ago. Drooling, tight belly, scours, arching head back and the worst screams ever that slowly faded. 3 kids got it, no kids made it. Vet confirmed enterotoxemia the next day. Very, very hard to treat once it get to this point. I don't think there is much you can do.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> Yep. Just try and comfort her. Give her loves and pets. Was hoping you would get a better outcome. Had this exact same think happen to me 2 years ago. Drooling, tight belly, scours, arching head back and the worst screams ever that slowly faded. 3 kids got it, no kids made it. Vet confirmed enterotoxemia the next day. Very, very hard to treat once it get to this point. I don't think there is much you can do.


Thank you all so very much for your help and advice. I am such a softy when it comes to animals. My heart is breaking and I can't stop crying. I've bottle-fed her from day one and it doesn't seem fair to lose her after just two weeks. Thank you all so much.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

It can also be tetanus or polio are things that also come to mind. Is there anyway you can quickly make it to a feed store and get C&D antitoxin? At this point i think it may be one of the only things that can help her if the vet won't.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Im sure you're doing everything you can, this is a hard situation. My heart goes out to you.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> It can also be tetanus or polio are things that also come to mind. Is there anyway you can quickly make it to a feed store and get C&D antitoxin? At this point i think it may be one of the only things that can help her if the vet won't.


No unfortunately no one is open on Sunday


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Can you get a friend or neighbor in town bring it to you? The C/D antitoxin might be available from the vet you've been talking to that way the vet doesn't have to come out...


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Can you get a friend or neighbor in town bring it to you? The C/D antitoxin might be available from the vet you've been talking to


There are no feed stores open on Sunday near me within 100 miles or I would be speeding into town


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Oh, yeah. Sorry, I seemed to forget that. Any way you can get some from the vet? They should have it. If not there is not much you can do. Unfortunately most goats with any of those things pass away within 12 hours of showing signs. I'm so sorry you are going through this :hug:


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Sorry was editing call the vet he might have it and you can get it from him


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Sorry was editing call the vet he might have it and you can get it from him


 I tried calling the vet and ask him and he does not have any


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Do you have a local facebook group for goats? Know anyone with goats? Maybe try a craigslist ad. See if anyone near you has any. Wish you were a bit closer. I would have been more than happy to bring some over for you.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> Do you have a local facebook group for goats? Know anyone with goats? Maybe try a craigslist ad. See if anyone near you has any. Wish you were a bit closer. I would have been more than happy to bring some over for you.


 I've tried everyone that I know. I even called the feed store gal who owns it and she does not have any in store. I would have to drive to Salem. I'm afraid by the time I drove there and back which is 4 1/2 hours one way, she would be gone already.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Im so very sorry you're going through this. All of us here are hurting with you.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Is there another vet even a small animal vet you can call they might have some or know someone.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Im so very sorry you're going through this. All of us here are hurting with you.


 Thank you so much. I just keep petting her and talking to her and letting her know that I am right here. I don't know if she could see me or hear me anymore. Her poor little body just keeps going rigid and she's throwing her head back. Every now and then a little cry. My heart is crushed.


----------



## Amanda Johnson (Mar 30, 2019)

Stop giving the milk replacer all together. Give vitamin D milk from the store mixed with a little baking soda. Do not force feed her. If you have any vitamin b12 give her 3mls of that. Check her temperature periodically for the next few days and make sure she dosent get a fever. Look up homeade energy drenches for goats and see what you can make. Has she had any bowel movements yet? Have you checked for worms?


----------



## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

:bighug::hug: :imsorry: (pray)


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Is there another vet even a small animal vet you can call they might have some or know someone.


 I really have called everyone I know even those who don't even have goats. I don't know what else to do for her but try to keep her warm and comfortable. She seems so far gone, her symptoms began I am assuming in the middle of the night when I first heard her cry out. Her name is Livy. It means life. Her little life has touched me so deeply. I'm a first time goat mama. I have 3 healthy kids, lost Livys sister at birth, she was just too small. Livy is a triplet. Her brother is strong and lively and I prayed one day Livy would join the rest of the kids outside. It just all seems so sudden you know? Yesterday up through her bedtime feeding she was bouncing and prancing and playing. I just don't understand. It's all happening so fast.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Thank you so much. I just keep petting her and talking to her and letting her know that I am right here. I don't know if she could see me or hear me anymore. Her poor little body just keeps going rigid and she's throwing her head back. Every now and then a little cry. My heart is crushed.


We all know you are doing everything you can:hug:. At this point it may be best to euthanize her.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Amanda Johnson said:


> Stop giving the milk replacer all together. Give vitamin D milk from the store mixed with a little baking soda. Do not force feed her. If you have any vitamin b12 give her 3mls of that. Check her temperature periodically for the next few days and make sure she dosent get a fever. Look up homeade energy drenches for goats and see what you can make. Has she had any bowel movements yet? Have you checked for worms?


Yes we've checked for worms and nothing. I don't think she's going to make it to supper time let alone another day or two. She digressing rapidly.


----------



## Amanda Johnson (Mar 30, 2019)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> I really have called everyone I know even those who don't even have goats. I don't know what else to do for her but try to keep her warm and comfortable. She seems so far gone, her symptoms began I am assuming in the middle of the night when I first heard her cry out. Her name is Livy. It means life. Her little life has touched me so deeply. I'm a first time goat mama. I have 3 healthy kids, lost Livys sister at birth, she was just too small. Livy is a triplet. Her brother is strong and lively and I prayed one day Livy would join the rest of the kids outside. It just all seems so sudden you know? Yesterday up through her bedtime feeding she was bouncing and prancing and playing. I just don't understand. It's all happening so fast.


Was there complications with the birth? How big was she compared to the other kids at birth?


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Amanda Johnson said:


> Was there complications with the birth? How big was she compared to the other kids at birth?


Half their size. I thought if I could get her to live through the night we would have a fighting chance. And then I got her to live two nights and then that turned into two weeks on Friday.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Half their size. I thought if I could get her to live through the night we would have a fighting chance. And then I got her to live two nights and then that turned into two weeks on Friday.


There were no complications at birth. But her and the one that was stillborn were half the size of the other healthy kid.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

I was reading through some of the other threads on here and there was something about deer on the property. We have all kinds of wildlife come through our property all the time. And she goes outside with me almost every day to feed the other livestock. She nibbles at things like dirt and tree branches. Should I be concerned for my other livestock and kids?


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Have the other goats received their CD&T vaccine? If not that's what I would start with.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I can't think of many things spread by deer to kids this young off the top of my head other than johnes, and e coli. Do you have any problems with ticks in your area?


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> Have the other goats received their CD&T vaccine? If not that's what I would start with.


The adults have but not yet the kids


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> I can't think of many things spread by deer to kids this young off the top of my head other than johnes, and e coli. Do you have any problems with ticks in your area?


No ticks spotted yet since we moved here a few years ago.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Goats are browsers a lot like deer. They love tree branches and twigs, bark and leaves. You should learn what types of trees and plants are on your place to make sure they're not harmful. Baby's will taste everything it's the way they learn. I believe you're talking about mennigial worms, yes, you should keep an eye out for ticks on your goats as they transmit diseases. The best thing you can do is get them their CDT vaccine and run fecals and learn to use the FAMACHA scoring.

Sorry I'm a slow typer...


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

When was the last time they received it? I would give the kids their first shots, then the booster afterward to start with, then would start looking into other things. If you want a for sure answer of what happened to this kid, if she passes away(which unfortunately seems likely at this point) I would send her in for an autopsy. Once you get answers it can help you understand what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

For the future...You can buy CD antitoxin to keep on hand at Jeffers. I keep tetanus antitoxin on hand as well. Another good thing is activated charcoal paste for accidental poisonings. Getting a goat first aid kit is like having insurance you might not need it but will be glad to have it if you do.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

Thank you 


SandyNubians said:


> When was the last time they received it? I would give the kids their first shots, then the booster afterward to start with, then would start looking into other things. If you want a for sure answer of what happened to this kid, if she passes away(which unfortunately seems likely at this point) I would send her in for an autopsy. Once you get answers it can help you understand what happened, and how to prevent it from happening again.


Last year when we bought the does and buck they were up to date. Thank you for your advice.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Goats are browsers a lot like deer. They love tree branches and twigs, bark and leaves. You should learn what types of trees and plants are on your place to make sure they're not harmful. Baby's will taste everything it's the way they learn. I believe you're talking about mennigial worms, yes, you should keep an eye out for ticks on your goats as they transmit diseases. The best thing you can do is get them their CDT vaccine and run fecals and learn to use the FAMACHA scoring.
> 
> Sorry I'm a slow typer...


Thank you for all of this valuable info. When we bought the goats from a local breeder she came out and inspected our land and where the goats were going to be living as insurance because they are all purebred and she wanted to be assured they were taken care of. We thought we had covered all of our bases. Apparently not.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

She is gone. She snuggled my neck and has passed. I have learned a lot from all of you. Thank you again.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

So sorry you lost her. She may have had internal problems you just couldn't know about. But in the future, just use whole cow milk if they need to be bottle fed.


----------



## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am sorry that she had to pass away. She was blessed to have an owner so caring.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Holly McKinnis Jacob said:


> Thank you for all of this valuable info. When we bought the goats from a local breeder she came out and inspected our land and where the goats were going to be living as insurance because they are all purebred and she wanted to be assured they were taken care of. We thought we had covered all of our bases. Apparently not.


No one person knows all, I'm not saying she wasn't well informed though. Seeds of toxic plants can blow in the wind so does trash. One of my goats was eating the string from a neighbors feed bag that blew out of the back of his pick up. 
You can't stop somethings from happening ..all you can do ...is the best you can. 
If you're worried about your land call the local extension office, they'll a lot of times send out someone to walk your land with you to help you check it, usually for free too.
Don't beat yourself up!
I have a grumpy old farmer friend who told me once if you were perfect and did everything perfect you'd be without any animals because that's the only way you can control what happens to them.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I'm so sorry she's gone. She'll be your little guardian angel. She knows now much you loved her.
RIP Little one


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I'm so, so sorry to hear! How awful. RIP sweet little. You can play with your sibling now in a better place:hug:


Try not to let this bring you down too much. Everyday with goats is a learning experience. Some truly terrible things happen and we learn from those experiences. You have an experienced now that some people may not (and hopefully do not) ever have. If someone ever has a goat showing the same signs you can give your experience, what happens with your little girl, and possibly even save the life of another. It is always sad to lose a baby, no matter what your goats are raised for, always heartbreaking, always painful, but for the sakes of our other animals, we need to push through it and give the live ones all the care they need to stay healthy and prevent it from happening again. Mourning now is good, crying is completely normal. But when you go outside. Look at your other goats and feel more motivated to prevent problems from happening to them. You did absolutely everything in your power to help her, but she passed on, she is no longer suffering and is in a better place. :hug: Just something I wish someone would have told me when I lost my babies a few years back.


----------



## Holly McKinnis Jacob (May 12, 2019)

SandyNubians said:


> I'm so, so sorry to hear! How awful. RIP sweet little. You can play with your sibling now in a better place:hug:
> 
> Try not to let this bring you down too much. Everyday with goats is a learning experience. Some truly terrible things happen and we learn from those experiences. You have an experienced now that some people may not (and hopefully do not) ever have. If someone ever has a goat showing the same signs you can give your experience, what happens with your little girl, and possibly even save the life of another. It is always sad to lose a baby, no matter what your goats are raised for, always heartbreaking, always painful, but for the sakes of our other animals, we need to push through it and give the live ones all the care they need to stay healthy and prevent it from happening again. Mourning now is good, crying is completely normal. But when you go outside. Look at your other goats and feel more motivated to prevent problems from happening to them. You did absolutely everything in your power to help her, but she passed on, she is no longer suffering and is in a better place. :hug: Just something I wish someone would have told me when I lost my babies a few years back.


 Thank you so much. I did exactly that, I went out and snuggled the other three kids. Every day, I took Livy out to play with them even though her mama didn't want her around. She is with her other sibling and baby goat heaven. And tomorrow when the feed store opens and the vet is open that I normally go to, I will be putting together an emergency goat kit. It may not ever prevent this from happening again but at least I will be more prepared. I would like to continue to be a part of this forum. There is so much information here that I haven't even begun to absorb yet. Thank you all for your kind words and your advice. You are all amazing thank you so so much.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I am so sorry you lost her. She is playing with my little premie I lost last week. They are dancing on the Rainbow Bridge. It's so darn hard to lose a baby goat.


----------



## Amanda Johnson (Mar 30, 2019)

I'm so sorry you lost her. I know how hard it is to let go of things like this. You are an amazing goat momma and all your goats are blessed to have someone that loves and cares for them so much. :hugs: keep those others healthy, and keep on loving them like you do.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry.


----------

