# Just what I need...CL



## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Well after that whole shenanigan with the horse, I just recently had another horrifying discovery. My rescued doe has a growing lump right before her stifle, a prime CL location. It is hard, about the size of a nickel or quarter, and you can move the skin over it. I had my dad feel it and after that he seemed pretty open to getting them tested and such. I will get that done ASAP, but for now I need to deal with the current abscess. Culling is out of the question. I have read about using Formalin to kill the abscess, and it's a gamble as to whether or not more will appear. And if any internal abscesses arise, I've read about using Vitamin C injections to detoxify them so they don't affect the system. Now, as to whether either of these methods work is a toss up, so I wanted to know what you guys think.

The doe that has the abscess has been exposed to goats with abscesses(most likely CL abscesses as they were in the right spots), as has my other doe. It is very possible they could both have the disease.

Also, I am worried about the goats that don't have abscesses currently. I found a vaccine on Jeffers: http://www.jefferspet.com/cl-bacterin-vaccine/camid/LIV/cp/0040569/cn/3301/ and saw that there was one offered by the University of California, provided you give them a sample of puss so they can create a vaccine for your specific strand of virus. All of these goats are just pets(except for a little ND doeling who will be might for show and possibly milk and breeding unless she comes up positive). However we had two new goats come in a few months ago with no info on anything, so if they have the disease as well with no external abscesses, how are we supposed to get a sample so that we can vaccinate for that as well?

I wanted to know your opinions on all these things. We have nowhere to separate the goats currently, and we can't spend millions. So we are pretty restricted.

It's sad really, but I think after this we won't be getting anymore goats...ever. It's just a lot for one animal. And it's one right after another! Last week it was pygmy with pneumonia(which the goat may still have along with passing it on to a couple others) and this weeks it's a Boer with CL. I mean, it's too much for a kid to take...and it's wearing on my parents wallets.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

This is why I will never rescue goats, there is just too many risks that go along with goats. That saying No good deed goes unpunished is SO right on. I am sorry that you are going through all this.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree Audrey, especially around here with the huge population of poorly bred and cared for "brush goats".

I have rescued a couple but, I have a quarantine area and knew the original breeders. 

It's too bad. All you can do now is test the herd and see where you are at.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Just because it's the right spot doesn't mean it absolutely is CL. I'm sorry you're dealing with this though.

Read this thread: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/cl-discussion-150100/ - It does show both sides of cull immediately and those that worked with it.

I wouldn't use Formalin unless I knew for sure it was CL.
You can do serology testing on those with no abscess. Actually IMO, serology is good to do on them all. Make sure the blood gets sent only to WADDL. They have the most trustworthy results.

Quarantine the goat with the abscess now. They can only contaminate through pus contact. If they have internal (it's rare) they can sneeze/cough up pus but its rare. Still, quarantine the ones you think might have it. You can create 2 herds. Pos and neg. In that thread above, people talked about having CL in their herds and how they got rid of it without culling everyone.

The vaccine from Jeffers isn't 100% effective but it's reported to help positives in having less abscesses and help those around them from contracting CL but like I said it's not 100%. The autogenous vaccine (the one made from your goat's CL) is supposed to be really really good, better than the standard Jeffers one but it's $750 just to make it.

Hang in there. People get hysterical over CL but there are ways to deal with it. Breath.
Read that thread, hopefully it will reassure you. Ask questions.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Have the goo tested, then you will know for sure. Separate and wait til the abscess is ripe and soft, than get the sample.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Dont use Formalin. Its formaldehyde. The stuff they pump into dead bodies. I would think iodine would work just as well but havent herd anyone using it in replace of formalin. It may just be a bad idea with bad side effects. Read the CL topic Amy posted for lots of good info. Separate, test and see where you stand.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Happybleats just posted a new article about using Draxxin on CL abscesses. Interesting that they're finding some success.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If your boats were clean and this thing is cl and has not popped they are fine. Ms Amy above got me reading more on cl. From what I have gathered the ones with internal and in the lungs will always cough and have snot noses. And another thing I just read is if you make your sick pen in a warm dry area then if the puss gets on the ground will only live about 8 months. The cold and wet they say it lives better then hit and dry. So I would just make a little pen for her away from the others and get it tested. Like they said could be nothing. If it is cl then test the rest to be on the safe side. At one time I was going to do that vac. But the more I think about it the more I'm going to hold off till its been out longer and see what it does. Right now I think its basically just being tested out and sorry not gonna test on my goats. That's my thought on it any how.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ohhh another thing about your sick pen make it down wind. One site said they believe even though has not been tested yet is that the cl puss will mix in with dust and other goats will breath it and get it. Again there is nothing for sure about that at all but to be on the safe side


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow 750$ for the vaccine O.O Umm...no thank you. And formaldehyde is just a really really powerful disinfectant, bacteria _cannot_ survive in it, which is why it is able to kill the abscess. We have no room to separate the goats...at all. I can and will keep a very close eye on the lump, and if it gets too big or if I feel it will burst, I will have a vet come out to lance and test it.

As for the testing, I've heard that WADDL gives false positives because of the way it tests. I was told to go through California to do CL...I'll look into it though.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Once it is open you want it away from the other goats. I can not stress that enough. It is so hard to get all that puss out and that's what spreads it. If you have a trailer I would use that. Put bedding down and when its over and if its cl then remove burn the bedding and bleach the trailer. If your not wanting cl in your herd I would try and figure something out or be ready to cull or manage it.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

No testing facility is foolproof. The testing facilities actually give out more false negatives than false positives. WADDL has the best for serology and Cornell for pus. But you should use whatever test facility you feel comfortable with. 

As Jessica said, it's important that you don't let other goats around the open abscess. Using formalin or lancing will still leave access to pus material. It doesn't all come put with the first lance and squeeze. You need a couple of days of flushing it and then waiting for it to dry up and scab over. A goat licks that wound or material drops out and you've infected more goats. 

CL can be managed but it's not easy and it takes diligence to not infect the whole herd. Hopefully you don't actually have CL but if it's suspected it's safer to be cautious now then regret it later


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Oh trust me once I think it may burst that goat is getting quarantined one way or another. And I didn't know about the serology, how would I do that?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A few things. First, a goat with internal CL abscess will NOT always have a runny nose and or cough. Its more likely they will if they are in the lungs but not always. There are a dozen other places internal they can grow them as well that would not produce a cough or snotty nose.

It is easy to fully clean an external CL abscess. You make a cut top to buttom of the abscess, nearly the entire height of the abscess. Do it over material you can throw away and or burn. A cheap blue tarp or even emptied grain bags. While wearing rubber gloves squeeze the abscess to get most of the puss out. Next you want to do a quick flush with iodine to start killing the bacteria in and around the wound. Keep squeezing and flushing. When you cant get anymore to come out, use Q tips to dig the rest of the puss outta the corners, flushing as you go. You can use a syringe to flush just be gentle on the plunger. You dont want it shooting back out for squirting the iodine in there to fast. When you are sure all the puss is out, flush one last time and saturate, with iodine, a large enough piece of paper towel to pack into the wound. So you are more or less replacing the same amount of puss with a iodine soaked paper towel. Leave a corner sticking outta the wound about a half inch so you can easily grab it to pull it out. Replace this paper towel once a day for 3-7 days depending upon the side and mass of the abscess. Keep quarantined until the abscess site is totally healed. Move to a positive pen at least 50 feet, but farther is better, from any negative goats and or sheep.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Dave is right. If they have internal, the lungs are more rare then them getting it in their intestines. According to my vet who works with a lot of cases says that's where he sees it first. It strangles the intestines and that's why a goat seems to lose weight fast.

Serology test = blood test. Your vet can do it or you can take a blood sample and send it in to WADDL. In my opinion the blood test isn't always accurate (more false neg than pos) but can be. I wouldn't discount it as a tool but I would use WADDL as IMO, they're the most accurate.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Hm, I'll keep an eye out and call a vet if needed to test all my goats and clean the abscess. I just hope that this won't infect my ND doeling...she's the only one I'm sure hasn't been exposed to CL. Then again, our barn is 100 years old _and_ has kept goats, so who knows what diseases are in the wood...


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

The abscess has grown...almost twice the size of a nickel now. I've been keeping a firm eye on it and my parents are open to calling a vet if needed.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Has the center gone soft and losing hair? Once that happens, it's time to take care of it.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Not yet, it's gotten bigger...it is definitely at least twice as big as when I first saw it. It's about the size of 1.5 quarters...It's hard and hasn't attached to the skin yet. And what sucks is she might be having babies within the next month(almost zero signs of pregnancy so far, but with a month left(she had a range of about 2.5 months for possible due dates, the end of that range is in October) and her being an FF, she might just pop em out at any time) so I need to keep a really close eye on her in more ways than one. Luckily, my dad just fenced off(with chicken wire) the walkway between the two stalls. So the pygmies are separated from the Boers at night. At least now we have some kind of option of isolation.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

If she does have CL you may want to pull the babies and bottle feed. There is no hard proof that CL is not passed in the colustrum but there is no hard proof that its not either. If she has CL, you can't be sure there isn't something internal that she's passing on.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

The thing with pulling them is that I have no frozen colostrum available. And since the only doe that's in milk(kinda, she has a sort of halfway full udder) is sickly and I have no idea if she has CAE or CL. Although I have no idea if any of my goats have CAE or CL, so it's kind of a hypocritical thing.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

my suggestion is just test already, draw the blood, send it to WADDL, you probably cant get it there for this week's test on Wednesday but you've got time to do it for next week, that way you know for sure and who has what. We show so we test every year just in case, its alot better than fretting about it which you obviously are. better to find out and deal with it.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

I agree with enchanted. Just test now so you know. 
No colostrum is better than tainted colostrum. Also, someone with goats nearby might have some colostrum frozen.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Working on convincing my parents to do it...we definitely have to wait until my mom is working, otherwise if I even suggest them spending more money that we don't have, they'll end up just getting rid of all of the goats. So I have another month or two until I can actually truly get into all this. 

And as for getting colostrum from someone...our goat lady is the one that had all the goat people contacts, and she's the one that stole our horse, so basically it's up to looking on craigslist...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

You can heat treat colostrum and make it safe. Ill have to double check to make sure but I believe its 150 degrees for 1 hour. The way we used to do it was to heat the colostrum to 150 on the stove using 3 different thermometers all calibrated to read correctly. Ya I know, thats over doing it but it assured us we would be ok. We would also at the same time heat water upto 160 degrees and pore that into a thermos. We used 6 at a time so we could do as much colostrum as we could. But once the colostrum was done we would pore out the water and put the colostrum into the thermoses. A good thermos will hold the temp the hour needed. (do a water run to make sure you thermos holds the temp. If it doesnt you can put it into a water bath on the stove as well). Regardless of how you do it, if you maintain a 150 degree holding time of one hour, it will be the same as pasteurizing the milk. The reason why you cant pasteurize colostrum is it burns and turns into pudding above 150 degrees. 

It should also be noted that by feeding babies heat treated colostrum and or pasteurized positive milk, they will show elevated teater levels if tested with that first 6 months if weaned at the standard 3 month mark. For pasteurizing milk the norm is 165. Here we also went over to 170 to 175 but right away put it into a cold water bath to bring the temp down quick. Not as healthy as raw unpasteurized milk but the kids great nearly as well and its still far and beyond better then milk replacer.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

the only problem with heat treating colostrum right out of the gate is that it takes so long and babies need it pretty immediately. Heat treating I thought was 140F for 1 hour.

Pasteurizing is much faster, just gotta bring it up to temp but colostrum is sensitive, if you heat it too high, it gets clumpy. You can over heat milk, but not colostrum.

WSU says it's not completely unsafe to feed from a CL positive doe but that it's always best to take precautions. So, if for the first go, the babe needs to have untreated to live then that's what happens. I would probably try to pasteurize a little right away and if it didn't work, let them have the raw.

BUT - if you suspect your doe of CAE then I'd go to CraigsList or feed replacer until I could I get some of Mom's milk pasteurized/heat treated. I wouldn't let a CAE pos doe feed her baby at all.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

Waddl does not require immediate payment, they will bill you. I dont know how many goats we are talking about but the test are like 5-9 dollars each. So unless you have more than 10 goats its cheaper to just do the tests rather than calling the vet which you say your parents are willing to do. I would test that one goat with the lumps the sickly doe and your ND that you are attached to. If they all are negative, you are probably ok. of course if one is positive you need to test the rest.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

I don't know if I'm just being hopeful...or because I haven't felt it in awhile, but I think the abscess shrunk? I don't know. Either way I will get them tested when I can. All of them will get tested when I do.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

It only takes max 2 hours to heat treat colostrum. Well withing the 24 hour must have period.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Okay, I _swear_ that thing has shrunk. I don't know if my mind just over exaggerated the size in the first place, and now that I have the idea it may be shrinking I'm under exaggerating it, but it seems smaller to me. Quite a bit smaller. If it is shrinking it isn't CL right? Is there anything that could cause an abscess _under_ the skin like that and it not be CL?


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Lots of things other than CL can cause an abscess but most of them usually shrink except for the ones caused by injections. All the other abscesses usually get big and pop. 

So this hasn't lost hair or anything? It's just shrinking?

Got pics?


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

No pics to take...you can't see it at all, you have to feel for it. I think it grew again today, it may go back and forth. I should start measuring it to be sure. No hair loss at all. Either way it hasn't gotten any bigger than the biggest it had gotten. She also now has a lump behind her jaw, however it doesn't feel like an abscess...she got attacked by our GSD the other day so I think she may be swollen because of that.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

Poor girl sounds like she's having a though time. Just keep an eye on it. If it went away, it's likely something else going on. But you may want to figure out what that is. She could be allergic to bugs or bee stings


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## jeffbash (Sep 28, 2013)

*cl*

if it is cl,then formalin is the best thing to use. cl isnt a big deal, i remember years ago when it showed up in a bunch of goats i bought, at the time i thought my herd was ruined.

you have time until you have to seperate her.
wait until the hair starts comming off the abcess and it starts to get soft,at this time its getting ready to break(isolate now)at this point you can tell if its cl or not by drawing some out with a syringe with a 16 gage needle as cl is quit thick. if its cl draw half of it out then put in that amount of formalin(this is the only stuff i trust to completely kill it)after a couple of days you should be able to let her out without worry as the formalin will have killed it by then.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

^^^ Bad advice. Formalin is terrible to use and damages the healthy tissue as well. CL is a big deal. Never wait to separate if you know its CL. Although usually not seen until later in the goats life, internal abscess can be just as contagious as external ones. Dont mess around with a needle and putting formalin inside of it. If the puss leaks out it will still be infectious and contaminate anything it comes in contact with. An animal should only be reintroduced to a POSITIVE pen once the LANCED abscess is completely healed.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

Can you buy some colostrum from a local herd that is tested? I was going to offer you some of mine but I'm down here in FL!! I'm keeping around last year's extra in case any of my FF don't do a good job with their babies


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Personally, I don't believe that CL is a big deal unless it becomes internal(I haven't seen any coughing), and if it can possible burst with the other goats. We have no way to separate her atm, and it would only stress her out and cause more damage if we did. And since it seems to be shrinking on and off, I don't think it's CL. At this point it hasn't even attached to the skin yet, so if it did burst, it wouldn't even affect anything but her. If it does attach, lose hair, and get soft I will separate her immediately. I will most likely use Formalin and bandage it with something. All Formalin is is extremely strong antibacterial. Even if it does harm some of the tissue, it will absolutely kill the CL. I will most likely have a vet do the procedure though, to make sure that I don't screw something up and so they can completely clean it out. I won't integrate the other goats until I know for sure there is no way for the puss to spread. I will consult a vet before any decisions are made, and I will do everything I can before even considering putting a healthy, unsuffering goat down.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

Didn't you say this goat was attacked by a dog? I am not sure whether the goat received veterinary treatment after the attack, but a puncture wound from a bite would be high risk to abscess. I had a doe get attacked by a stray dog our very first year with goats. It required quite a bit of nursing to get her to survive. The vet took a scalpel and opened the bottom of each puncture wound so that they could drain better and I had to massage stuff out of there twice a day while she was healing. She was also on some heavy duty antibiotics. She did make a full recovery.


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## jeffbash (Sep 28, 2013)

*abcess*

what you described , getting bigger then smaller doesnt sound like cl at least none that i had in my herd ever did that. GOATS ARE WALKING ABCESSES ,all kinds of things from thornes to shots can give goats an abcess.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

when you do decide to test use waddl and do the biosecurity scan. it tests for cae, cl, and johnes. it is $22 each goat you could do just the one goat for cl if there is still concern. but if it is shrinking it is probably not cl but could be an infection from a puncture wound that is healing on it's own


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

She didn't get any punctures or wounds in general from the dog attack, and he mostly bit her around the neck. He didn't get anywhere near the original abscess. She's swollen under her jaw a bit, but it just feels like a swollen lump, nothing like an abscess. And the reason I'm so confused by this abscess is because it isn't even external yet. It hasn't attached to the skin, so it can't be something like a bug bite or a thorn or anything, because that would have been a raised lump. This is more like a lump you have to feel for, and you can move a fair amount of skin _over_ it, almost like its on one of her organs or something.


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## jeffbash (Sep 28, 2013)

*lump*

i dont remember where you said this lump was, but if it changes size from big to small and vise versa maybe youre feeling an enlarged lymph node,since you said theres still alot of skin over it . i would check to see if lymph nodes are located in this area.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

It's right before her hind leg(stifle). Which is why I though it was CL because of the location, a lymph node. I'm pretty sure it is a lymph node, because on the other goats you can feel theirs, and it's in the exact same location.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Oh, and how do they get enlarged glands like that? Will it hurt or affect her at all? Does it need treatment or will it go away on its own?


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## jeffbash (Sep 28, 2013)

*lymph node*

have you taken her temp?are any other lymph node sites enlarged?enlarged nodes are usually an infection of some kind. i have a goat right now that has the nodes in front of the shoulders enlarged because she has a bad case of fly strike on her neck. vet gave her a shot of 10 day antibiotics. if your goat is acting and eating fine and no temp i would probably keep an eye on it and do nothing until shes had this say a month with no change,then you might give her a shot of penicillan(sq)its not like that would hurt her any or if youre worried about it give it to her now, then give her a squirt of probios for her gut in a day or 2


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

I think I'll leave it and see for now. If it gets bad I'll call a vet and isolate. If not I'll let it be.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Well, it hasn't changed since I first posted this. No growth or shrinking. No hair-loss or squishiness.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I can't remember if this was covered but did you do any injections in that spot?


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## Fourthsister (May 9, 2021)

AmyBoogie said:


> Dave is right. If they have internal, the lungs are more rare then them getting it in their intestines. According to my vet who works with a lot of cases says that's where he sees it first. It strangles the intestines and that's why a goat seems to lose weight fast.
> 
> Serology test = blood test. Your vet can do it or you can take a blood sample and send it in to WADDL. In my opinion the blood test isn't always accurate (more false neg than pos) but can be. I wouldn't discount it as a tool but I would use WADDL as IMO, they're the most accurate.


Amy,. Sorry to jump in here so many years later but, it's interesting your vet seeing lots of cases in intestines. My vet said it's more of a liver thing and when I asked if he saw slot of goats with internal CL he said no. I'm in Tennessee, where is your vet?


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## EJskeleton (Apr 22, 2021)

Fourthsister said:


> Amy,. Sorry to jump in here so many years later but, it's interesting your vet seeing lots of cases in intestines. My vet said it's more of a liver thing and when I asked if he saw slot of goats with internal CL he said no. I'm in Tennessee, where is your vet?


Hi! Sorry, I know you weren’t addressing me, but I couldn’t help but bud in. I had a case of CL with one of my sheep, and it was insane! It was covering the entire liver, inside and out.


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## Fourthsister (May 9, 2021)

EJskeleton said:


> Hi! Sorry, I know you weren’t addressing me, but I couldn’t help but bud in. I had a case of CL with one of my sheep, and it was insane! It was covering the entire liver, inside and out.


Well I want to hear people's experiences. The guy I got this goat from had sheep. He had also tagged her. So I felt like it wasn't impossible. 

Your sheep died😬. But you managed to keep the CL from others? Did your ewe have any symptoms or just went quickly? Was this recent and what state are you in?


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## EJskeleton (Apr 22, 2021)

Fourthsister said:


> Well I want to hear people's experiences. The guy I got this goat from had sheep. He had also tagged her. So I felt like it wasn't impossible.
> 
> Your sheep died😬. But you managed to keep the CL from others? Did your ewe have any symptoms or just went quickly? Was this recent and what state are you in?


I see.
My sheep ewe was butchered. I did not want a sheep that had CL in my herd. I think a few of my dad’s right now probably have CL, so I’m going to have them butchered also... 
The ewe did have symptoms. She coughed, and could not run. She was basically living on one Liver. This was about a year or two ago. My sheep herd could be a lot healthier, so it is no surprise that they might have CL. Honestly, the sheep are my dad’s, and he does not keep on top of them very well. I’m going to get my goats tested for CL also. I had a goat once have a ball sized abscess in near her throat, and I thought it could have been CL. However, now that I think about it, I don’t think it was. I’m pretty in sure it was cancer. Anyway, what has your personal experience been with CL? And does the vaccine really work on goats?


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## Fourthsister (May 9, 2021)

EJskeleton said:


> I see.
> My sheep ewe was butchered. I did not want a sheep that had CL in my herd. I think a few of my dad’s right now probably have CL, so I’m going to have them butchered also...
> The ewe did have symptoms. She coughed, and could not run. She was basically living on one Liver. This was about a year or two ago. My sheep herd could be a lot healthier, so it is no surprise that they might have CL. Honestly, the sheep are my dad’s, and he does not keep on top of them very well. I’m going to get my goats tested for CL also. I had a goat once have a ball sized abscess in near her throat, and I thought it could have been CL. However, now that I think about it, I don’t think it was. I’m pretty in sure it was cancer. Anyway, what has your personal experience been with CL? And does the vaccine really work on goats?


I guess I'm a bit confused. How do you know it was CL? And what do you mean by "living on one liver"?
I do not have any experience with CL. I'm new to small ruminants. I have brought a new goat into my small herd and she has a persistent cough. Just trying to find out why she has that horrible cough and if I need to protect the rest of my herd. So it was a butcher who showed you or told you about absesses on the liver? No necropsy done?


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## EJskeleton (Apr 22, 2021)

Fourthsister said:


> I guess I'm a bit confused. How do you know it was CL? And what do you mean by "living on one liver"?
> I do not have any experience with CL. I'm new to small ruminants. I have brought a new goat into my small herd and she has a persistent cough. Just trying to find out why she has that horrible cough and if I need to protect the rest of my herd. So it was a butcher who showed you or told you about absesses on the liver? No necropsy done?


I see! I don’t know if it was exactly CL, but every symptom and picture I could find on the internet matched. 
And by living on one liver, I mean she had a HORRIBLE case of CL in one of her livers, leaving it totally worthless and unusable. Which also meant she was only able to use one of hers, which really impairs any animal or human. 
I don’t know a lot about CL in goats either, so that’s why I barged in. 😂
My father butchers all our animals, so he was the one who found the abscesses. He took the liver out and sliced it open, and took several pictures to send to people who had dealt with CL before. All of them agreed it was most likely CL. 
Sorry I don’t have any advice. Have you already made a thread about this topic? If not, then I suggest you do, so more people who have experience can help you.


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Kaneel said:


> Well after that whole shenanigan with the horse, I just recently had another horrifying discovery. My rescued doe has a growing lump right before her stifle, a prime CL location. It is hard, about the size of a nickel or quarter, and you can move the skin over it. I had my dad feel it and after that he seemed pretty open to getting them tested and such. I will get that done ASAP, but for now I need to deal with the current abscess. Culling is out of the question. I have read about using Formalin to kill the abscess, and it's a gamble as to whether or not more will appear. And if any internal abscesses arise, I've read about using Vitamin C injections to detoxify them so they don't affect the system. Now, as to whether either of these methods work is a toss up, so I wanted to know what you guys think.
> 
> The doe that has the abscess has been exposed to goats with abscesses(most likely CL abscesses as they were in the right spots), as has my other doe. It is very possible they could both have the disease.
> 
> ...


Have you seen my post on CL?! No you never have to cull your goat.. please use draxxin never formaldehyde! Get a prescription from your vet for draxxin, it's expensive but completely cured all 5 of my goats of CL cyst...I had to be on the lookout for cyst all summer, please read what I posted on CL and draxxin..I'm 🙏 you didn't cull your goat 💔 I promise with everything I can..we haven't had a cyst now for 4 years.. every summer I'd have to deal with these cyst, my own vet injects draxxin when she knows her clients have CL in the herd. My vet has to be one of the best goat vets around here..we live in New England..ifyl you need instructions please let me know..I guess I'm going to have to look at all the posts..I thought the people that asked me questions about draxxin would point people to my post???? I don't understand why nobody did tell you about draxxin 😣


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Fourthsister said:


> I guess I'm a bit confused. How do you know it was CL? And what do you mean by "living on one liver"?
> I do not have any experience with CL. I'm new to small ruminants. I have brought a new goat into my small herd and she has a persistent cough. Just trying to find out why she has that horrible cough and if I need to protect the rest of my herd. So it was a butcher who showed you or told you about absesses on the liver? No necropsy done?


Since you are new, I want to let people know that I know how to completely CURE CL..by using draxxin..I have checked to see if anyone has questions but didn't see that anyone needed to help for CL😣 please look at my post on draxxin 😣💔I don't understand why nobody told you that I posted on CL and how to get rid of CL for good 😣💔


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Kaneel said:


> Not yet, it's gotten bigger...it is definitely at least twice as big as when I first saw it. It's about the size of 1.5 quarters...It's hard and hasn't attached to the skin yet. And what sucks is she might be having babies within the next month(almost zero signs of pregnancy so far, but with a month left(she had a range of about 2.5 months for possible due dates, the end of that range is in October) and her being an FF, she might just pop em out at any time) so I need to keep a really close eye on her in more ways than one. Luckily, my dad just fenced off(with chicken wire) the walkway between the two stalls. So the pygmies are separated from the Boers at night. At least now we have some kind of option of isolation.


Again I'm in disbelief that nobody pointed you to what I did to get rid of CL for good.. never use formaldehyde, very dangerous... please look at my post on draxxin.. you will not have CL in your herd if you treat the cyst with draxxin 😣💔 I just don't understand why nobody told you that I posted on CL and how to cure CL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Just so you know.

This is a thread which was created in 2014, then was awakened 5 months ago, looks like it was missed unfortunately. 
That is why members need to create a new thread so it is seen and not missed like this. 

So sorry *Fourthsister , *hope things are OK?



Debra P we hear you and the person will hopefully see this.


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Just so you know.
> 
> This is a thread which was created in 2014, then was awakened 5 months ago, looks like it was missed unfortunately.
> That is why members need to create a new thread so it is seen and not missed like this.
> ...


Ohhh my thank you SO VERY MUCH ‼ we have been extremely busy and I can't always look at this site, but I just wanted to help save goats lives💞❣ Now, there is no need to cull a goat because of CL, please point my post out to people that are asking about CL🐐 the reason I've shared this with you people on this site, is because I think this is a great site for questions and others that have had goats for many years and so much experience with these fabulous animals ❣‼🐐 in March my little guy named Bull( long story) he's my only pygmy, I noticed he was staying in the barn and not coming out for the hay, first day I just thought maybe he was a bit off or tired but the second day I checked his temperature which was high and looked into his eyes, MY HEART DROPPED! 😫NOO NOT YELLOW 😳💛 yup brought him to my vet, she looked at his eyes and I saw the concern on her face😱 then she TRIED testing his blood, it was so bad that it wouldn't SEPERATE when she put it through the centerfuge it was too thick 😫 Cara wasn't optimistic, his liver had shut down 😖 he was in critical condition, Cara put a port in his neck, we gave him IV fluids 3 times daily, along with medications Cara gave us trying to heal his liver! Again nobody gave me a tiny bit of hope but I WASN'T GIVING UP ON MY BOY! He lost a lot of weight, the skin on his nose and ears peeled off and I had to put the thick white sun block on his nose and ears...Cara told us that he was the only goat in all her years of practice that was on IV fluids for an entire week 3 times a day. It was very stressful, but he IS ALIVE AND WELL ENOUGH TO PLAY THE BUTTING GAME WITH HIS BUDDIES 🐐🙃🙃One of the happiest days if my life‼ I'm going to try posting the short video of Bull getting his IV fluids 😊🐐💞‼he is well and gained his weight back and I couldn't be more thrilled 😄


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Just so you know.
> 
> This is a thread which was created in 2014, then was awakened 5 months ago, looks like it was missed unfortunately.
> That is why members need to create a new thread so it is seen and not missed like this.
> ...


This is only 19 seconds hope it posts... Well my video was only 19 seconds but it said that the video is too long🤔 but this is the picture I sent to my vet, she said are you sure that's the same goat ⁉


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Just so you know.
> 
> This is a thread which was created in 2014, then was awakened 5 months ago, looks like it was missed unfortunately.
> That is why members need to create a new thread so it is seen and not missed like this.
> ...


This picture is as he started feeling better ❣💞‼


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Just so you know.
> 
> This is a thread which was created in 2014, then was awakened 5 months ago, looks like it was missed unfortunately.
> That is why members need to create a new thread so it is seen and not missed like this.
> ...


Thank you so very much


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What a cute goat. 

It would be best to add things to you CL thread, so it can be seen better, instead of posting in this old post. That way, members will be able to read through your thread and may even ask you questions there.


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