# QUICK HELP, Hard udder no milk



## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Well so much for no problems!
sweethearts udder is ROCK hard!
im getting small drops of milk but nothing more.

Ok this is disgusting but I sucked on her udder to see if babys could get something and theres nothing coming out. 

They were 24 hours last night at 10:30 pm
im thinking they got colostrum allready they are up and healthy but trying to nurse constantly.

I have milk frozen from my other doe, should I give this to them or should I go buy colostrum?

ive tryed to massage and hot washcloths for about an hour and still nothing! how do I help mom?


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

never tested for CAE
She is a first freshner
she is 2 years old
ive owned her for one year
dont know any history on her


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Multiple times per day you need to massage, put bag balm or peppermint oil and milk. Sounds like she is congested. You will need to bottle feed the boys.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

do I need to go get colostrum? 
My other doe delivered 3 weeks ago today and I have saved milk. should I give the milk to the new babies or go buy colostrum?


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

How much do I feed and how often?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Unless you're 110% sure they already got colostrum, they need it NOW. Did you save actual colostrum from the other doe or just regular milk? If it's just milk buy the powdered, but real colostrum is better. Hopefully someone else has the calculations, I don't bottle feed.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I start feeding 1 ounce per pound of weight per bottle 4 times a day. Other people feed 10% of body weight divided in 4 bottles.

If you buy powdered colostrum, make sure it is replacer and not supplement.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

I've done all the above mentioned. 

The little boy is doing well
The little girl seems weak head hanging. 

They both got selenium vit e when they were born.
Mom also had it a week prior to delivery. 

I was able to get the little girl to drink about 3 oz and she weighs 3 lbs. 

Is there anything else I can or should do?


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

I can't believe how hard her udder is! It feels like there are discs inside. 
I still can't get any milk out. Just drops. Her nipples are not "filling" they are soft like after a doe has been milked out. 


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Just keep it all up. It can take several days to break up the congestion. 

If you haven't given the doeling a B Complex shot, I would be giving her one. I would also give a little Karo syrup for some energy. Feed her 4 bottles. If you need to, feed smaller amounts more frequently.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

4 times per day is only every 6 hours. 
I thought they needed every 2 hours?




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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

She won't suck on the bottle so I cut the hole bigger so it drips in. I can squeeze so more milk comes out. 

I've seen little info about aspirating them? How do I know? How do I prevent doing that?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Time between bottles can be anywhere from 2 to 6 hours. If your doeling is weak, then I would do smaller amounts every 2 hours.

I prefer the Pritchard nipple. It is a red nipple with a yellow screw cap.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Tractor supply only had black rubber lamb nipples.

Doeling is up and looking better for now.

I've got mama in the tub with jacuzzis on








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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is one lucky goat.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

M








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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> That is one lucky goat.


I figured it would work better than hot compresses?

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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

By never tested for CAE, do you mean she has never tested positive, or she has never been tested period? A hard udder with no milk at birth is a sign of CAE.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

imbossofchaos said:


> I figured it would work better than hot compresses?


Maybe. I guess you will find out.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Scottyhorse said:


> By never tested for CAE, do you mean she has never tested positive, or she has never been tested period? A hard udder with no milk at birth is a sign of CAE.


I've never tested at all.

All this testing, nurturing and even feeding is foreign to the goat people I know.

We live in a small hillbilly town where people just send there goats out to pasture. Give sweet cob on a milk stand and that's it.

So a year ago I got two goats who were going to be eaten. One was supposedly infertile. Which is the one with the congested udder right now.

I bought another from a rescue who was pregnant for milking.

Long story short with the research I've done here I'm pretty sure I've bought some really bad goats who probably all have CAE.

I honestly want to sell them all and start over with registered tested animals! Problem is I really LOVE the ones I have! They are like family members!

What would you do?
My main goal is milking

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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

First off I would get them tested for CAE, CL, and Johnes. If they are positive, it would probably be best to start over with new girls from registered stock. If they are clean, and giving you the milk you want, might as well keep them and buy a registered animal or two, or none, if you don't want to show.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

First, I would have them tested to be sure. Can you have more goats on your property than what you have?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

From what I understand, CAE is not likely to be transmitted except through milk. If they treat positive and you can afford it you could retire them from breeding and just keep them as pets.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

I. Have 3 acres

I'll try to make this not confusing :-/

We have 2 bucks for breeding

Does:
Snow White and her doeling Lucy (keeping)
Sweetheart with twins (plan to sell)
Mama (sweethearts mom pregnant and due May 25)

Grace (alpine doe 14months) not bread


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

h


Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> From what I understand, CAE is not likely to be transmitted except through milk. If they treat positive and you can afford it you could retire them from breeding and just keep them as pets.


if that's true that is wonderful!

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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Snow White is a great milker! I'd love to keep her. Wish I didn't ever have to breed her again and she would stay in milk!

I won't EVER. Re-breed sweetheart again or her mom! 
If I knew then what I know now this whole thing would be a different story! 

I feel like such an idiot! I'm really not a careless person. 
So far I've had the WORST experiences with breeding! 
Everyone who knows me thinks I'm crazy! They don't do anything to there goats and there baby's survive fine! 

What am I doing wrong?


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm not interested in showing. Just want quality millers for my family. 


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I have had one positive goat with my two neg. goats over a year now and they are still neg. I worry, but I did the same thing last year (milk neg. doe then milk positive doe) in the same stand eating from the same bucket, and still negative, so I tend to believe them, mainly through the milk. I love my positive doe very much, she will be a pet from now on. She is milking well over half a gallon each milking, she gets ACV in her water every day because I heard that helps, seems to be working well.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Ok I'm scared to think this or even ask this but here goes....

What if we butchered them? 
I know they are not meat goats. 
But.... Honestly who is going to want them? If they test positive for CAE, they should not be used for breeding. 
Even if I could find a good "pet" home for them that usually only lasts so long. Feed and hay gets expensive! 
I can't stand the thought of giving them to someone who won't care for them the way I do. 

Weathers and bucks sell here for $30-50.00 
Does for $75-150

It's not a large investment around here. 
Maybe I'm just horribly depressed about my recent experiences. 

Has anyone eaten there "unwanted:-(" dairy goats?




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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

CAE is passed through milk and blood only. 80% is passed through the colostrum and 15% through the sweet milk. High percentage is passed through the blood as well. If her her udder is very hard I can just about guarantee you she has either had mastitis in the past which has destroyed her udder or she has the mastitic form of cae.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

rebelINny said:


> CAE is passed through milk and blood only. 80% is passed through the colostrum and 15% through the sweet milk. High percentage is passed through the blood as well. If her her udder is very hard I can just about guarantee you she has either had mastitis in the past which has destroyed her udder or she has the mastitic form of cae.


She is a ff so I'm guessing your right in the CAE. :-(
Which also means her mom most likely has it also! Due in 4 weeks!
And even worse her new buckling and doeling will most likely have it too!

The only right thing to do at this point would be to give them a great life and then eat them. 
I can't honestly sell them to someone!

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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Both babies are alive and well this morning! 
I can't believe it. They were going down quick yesterday. Today they look as healthy as can be. 



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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

So glad to hear the babies are doing better❤


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad the kids are doing better.


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Kids are doing amazing! I can't get them to take the bottle but I've been putting them on my other doe 3 times a day and there getting very little from there mama. 
Her utter is still rock hard nothing seems to be helping :-(

I'm going to get real baby bottles and try that. Any tips would be appreciated. 
I've tried molasses on the nipple no luck 


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Also some more good news I might have pet homes for both of them!  right next door 


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Well that sounds great!


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Sweethearts udder is still hard as a rock! Nothing seems to help :-(
Babies are doing well my only concern is the little girl seems really thin, she's active and acts very healthy. She never eats as much as her brother. But I can feel her belly when she is full. 
Anything I can or should do or watch out for?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

You are bottle feeding, correct?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I like to weigh my babies and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz...then multiply that by 10% and divide that into 3-4 feedings..along with feeling tummies..you want firm flat tummies, not sunken in or pooching out too much...if your doe wont drink all her milk for the day in 3 bottles...feed her 4 times...just make sure she gets at least that 10%..
make sure they are pooping just fine


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

happybleats said:


> I like to weigh my babies and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz...then multiply that by 10% and divide that into 3-4 feedings..along with feeling tummies..you want firm flat tummies, not sunken in or pooching out too much...if your doe wont drink all her milk for the day in 3 bottles...feed her 4 times...just make sure she gets at least that 10%..
> make sure they are pooping just fine


I am putting them on my other doe who is in milk morning and night.

I'm bottle feeding them 3 oz in the afternoon- they hate the bottle

They are also getting little bits from there mom but it's not much at all.

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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

They both gained 2 lbs in 4 days does that seem good enough?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Yep! Target is ~3 lb per week, sounds like they're doing good!


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## imbossofchaos (Mar 23, 2014)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Yep! Target is ~3 lb per week, sounds like they're doing good!


Thank you! That puts my mind at ease a bit. I still can't believe there alive! First time for me having any luck! I think I owe it to the selenium vit e! And of course all the willing knowledge on here!

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