# # of goats in a kidding pen



## rtdoyer (May 6, 2010)

We have two Alpine girls who are both due the first week of April. Right now they live with two wethers of the same age. The boys are with them as they are the runts of the herd. My question, does each doe need her own kidding pen? Should the boys be moved? Once they kid and the babies are moved to a new pen can the boys go back in? They all play and I guess I wonder if they will settle down after kidding when they have a big udder. 
Tonia


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Adult goats are not usually mean to babies. Thou some mama's get a bit testy with babies that are not theirs. Or if you have a mean goat that takes bites or cheap shots, that will tend to roll over and be projected onto babies. A herd boss with a mean streak can do some nasty things. But overall I wouldnt worry to much, but keep an eye on the lot of em to make sure especially if anyone has horns. Here, we have 2 places were we can put does who are kidding if they are on the lower end of the pecking order. Just so they can have peace and not get ran off or kid in a dirty spot. But these area are right next or even in the main barn. It doesnt take to long for a goat to lose their rank when separated from their pen mates. We may leave them in this small pen area for a day or so depending on how lively the babies are. If they are up and nursing and in good spirits, we will let em out early. Never have penned mature wethers with babies so cant speak on that but again, would just depend on the animals personality I would guess.


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## rtdoyer (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. We don't have any horned goats. Do you pull your babies right away and start bottle feeding or do you let the kids stay with the moms for a few days so they can have colostrum? If you pull that day, won't they get colostrum in the first few milkings that you do? If you milk and put that milk right back in to a bottle, are the kids getting colostrum still?
Tonia


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

For the babies we pull we tend to pull them right away OR being a clean herd we have the option to leave em on mom for the first day or two. But its easier on the moms to pull em right away as they havent had a chance to bond to their babies. OR another thing that we are finiding works well if you have a little extra time to put into it, you can "shark" the kids. Let the mom have em the first few days to even 2 weeks, then pull the kids. Then instead of bottle feeding the kids all the time, you bring them back to their mom to nurse and then take the remaining milk for the bottle feeding. Then put the babies back in their separate pen. This works as long as the kids are tamed down during that time with their moms. Its kinda hard to get worked out at first but once its working, it works very well. Kids and moms still get to be together for the most part and you get tame kids by bottle feeding them also. At some point when the kids are totally tame, you can stop the bottle feeding and just "shark" them on their moms. It takes alot of planning and feeling out thats for sure and we are still working it out ourselves. Here with so many animals, we still test each year just to play it safe. So before Id suggest doing this method, if you have any doubts, test before the kidding season starts. For us its just gives piece of mind and the ability to say CAE neg


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Grown wethers will hurt small kids. Bashing them into the corners and generally picking on them any time mom is not nearby. Best to keep them seperated until they are big enough to fend for themselves.


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

Hi Tonia,
Just adding my two bobs worth 
For me, I have found by far the best method for raising kids, is to take them at birth, put them just over a short wall so the mum can lick and bond with them and bottle feed them. After two-five days (depending on the nature of the doe) the kids can be safely let out, will not drink, but are well bonded to their mums  You get lovely friendly kids, you get to decide how much milk they get and also know how much the mum is making, while they are raised in a natural way by their mum so are well established in the herd and happy when you are not there as their mum looks after them, while you don't have to worry about separate pens etc. while they grow up.  I have posted quite a bit of info on this forum about how much and how often I feed the babies, so if you search my posts it should be pretty easy to find 
In regards to the actual kidding, I would definitely take them away from the wethers, but depending on how well the mums get along together and big the pen is, they should be fine together. I have had three does at the most in a pen, and they were all fine, but the pen needs to have at least 2m by 2m per doe unless they are closely bonded or very docile.
Regarding the wethers, it also depends on the size of the pen and the nature of he wethers. Without horns on them and with plenty of space for the babies to get out of the way, they should be fine. We have thirty goats of all ages, sizes and breeds in the same area together here (and they also mingle every day with chickens, ducks, sheep, ponies, dogs and an alpaca) and after three-six days old (depending on how soon they have been allowed in with their mum - normally the day after they go back together) they all go back in with the herd. Normally they get on fine as most of the goats remember their prior order with not much hassle. 
As to the nature of the wethers, if there is plenty of space, they don't have horns and are well-trained, they should be fine. Even my adult bucks are fine with newborn babies, although in rut some I bought as adults may follow the bubs around a bit until they are told off. In the same way, horned well-trained wethers should be fine, except that they can accidentally hurt the kids if they just give them a flick, while disbudded goats need to be purposefully mean to harass/hurt a kid in a large area. 
All the best,
Cazz


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## rtdoyer (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. We are going to separate the does out from the whethers - just to be safe. I would rather have the 'safe' approach than the, "Ohhh, I should have .....". 

When I was a kid and did 4-H we always pulled the kids right away when they were born (after some cleaning by the moms) and then milked and then bottle fed. 20+ years later I don't remember all the little things (did we start milking right away, do you have to wait for the milk to come in, etc...).

I'm looking forward to kidding the first week of April. I'm not sure how it worked out, but that is the week of my spring break (I'm a teacher) so I'll be home.

Tonia


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

colostrum will be first. A couple of days of that and it will turn more towards milk. Dont milk more then what the kids will eat right off the bat or you risk causing milk fever in the doe. Simply meaning they come into to much milk to fast. But you dont want to over udder the doe either. Which shouldnt be an issue but something to watch out for. To tight and leaking are both signs. After a week or so, its business as usual


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