# Kids born - what to do?



## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

My first timer Pygmy just had twins. I found them maybe within the hour of them being born? They were a bit weak, so I gave them nutra drench. That didn't seem to help much. I tried to get them both to nurse, but not much luck. Each kid got a few sucks but that was it. I decided to wait 30 minutes and go back out. They looked worse, so I gave them Bounce Back (10cc) and then Jump Start (5g). That seemed to help! Both babies "bounced back" and decided to stand up and try to nurse. They still had issues, so I milked the doe. The colustrum was so thick, it was hard to milk her at first and then it eased up. I guess that must have been causing some of the issues for babies. Anyhow, I fed them about 8-10cc each of the milk I got. That helped even more! They started trying to nurse on their own after that. I helped them a bit and they managed to nurse on their own for about 15 minutes. At that point, I decided to leave them be for a while and now here I am.

My questions is: How often do I need to go and help them nurse? 

The doe is still unused to them and tends to panic sometimes when they touch her in the wrong spot. I want to make sure they continue nursing, though. Can I go out every 2 hours and make them nurse? Will that be often enough or too often? 

Next question: should I continue to give Bounce Back and Jump Start maybe a few times a day? Is that too much or not needed?

Sorry for the long post. I will feel SO horrible if they die. I'll bottle feed them if needed, but I'm hoping not to. Should I just go ahead and bottle feed? I'm going to pull my hair out.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Just check them every few hours, if their bellies feel full, they are nursing.

Give mom some molasses water too...it will help her with energy as well as with milk production....did she pass the after birth?


Comgrats on twins...what are they? Boy/Girls?


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

She had a buckling and a doeling. The doeling is gorgeous!

I just checked on them an hour after they nursed well. The buckling seems full of energy, but doesn't nurse for long. I think the milk is still too thick to easily nurse?

The doeling is very weak again. I'm going to do a repeat of the Jump Start and Bounce back, then go buy a bottle. I had a bottle, but lost the nipple ... so need to go get one.

The doe seems to be kicking the kids away. I thought she would get better, but doesn't seem to be.

Is it supposed to be this hard? :GAAH:


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

My doe had a hard time with her kids at first. Eventually she caught on, and the kids adapted to her. I think they started eating solids quicker than most kids I've had since mom wasn't letting them nurse much, but the best indicator is a rum-tum belly and activity. My doe's doeling was really weak at first. We didn't do anything for her other than help her nurse every now and then. She picked it up quick. A few times of helping and everyone should get used to it. Just keep an eye on everyone.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you. I think that is what I am going to do, too. I am going to skip the bottle for now and try and get Midge to accept the kids nursing. I will just continue to go out every 2 hours and help. If the doeling nees it, I'll use a syringe to get milk into her if she seems too weak.

Hopefully, I can keep the doeling alive. She's definitely having a harder time than the buckling.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Sound like you are doing the right thing. I hope the little girl makes it. I have had weak kids who all of a sudden are up and fine. I have also had moms ignore kids but after I kept putting them on her; they get the idea. I would get a bottle and nipple just in case it becomes necessary.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank goodness, I finally saw mom licking her buckling. I was worried that she was ignoring them, but she seems to be doing an okay job ... all but for the nursing. :chin: They can nurse on her, but if they touch her back legs or her tummy, she kicks at them. Hopefully, she'll get over this.

The doeling was weak again, but I gave her some more of the Bounce Back water and she felt good enough to nurse. They both nursed off and on for about 15 minutes and then I let them be. I'll just keep doing this every two hours.

After the next feeding, I'll go run some errands and try to find a nipple for my bottle and get dinner... for me!

Thanks everyone for all of the help.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Might as well post pics :greengrin:

Here is the doeling









and the buckling. On the other side, he has a belly spot.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

Tooo cute


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Awe, I hope mommy gets the idea and all works out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats... they are adorable...  :thumb: 

Go out every couple of hours to make sure they are getting the teat...
If they aren't getting much....I would get a syringe....milk some momma's colostrum in it and feed it to the babies....(no needle of course)

Maybe give a bo-se shot...


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks! Where can I get a bo-se shot?


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

Aww! They are adorable!!! I hope the little girl makes it...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks! Where can I get a bo-se shot?


 From a vet... :wink:


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm sorry to keep asking questions but ...

I just finished letting the kids nurse again (doeling seems better) and I noticed Midge's belly looked like it had dropped again and I saw movement. Could she have another kid in there? It's been 7 hours now since I found these two little guys. Or, could it just be gas? She did burb two times while I was out there.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Has she passed the afterbirth? If not then I would go in and check her to make sure there is not another kid.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

Though RPC, if she passed it a while ago, she could've eaten it, I never found my dwarf girl's afterbirth.

If you have a stethscope handy might listen in to see if you hear anything more than stomach gurgles. Its possible, but not entirely probable.

Check for bits or pieces or some sort of evidence she may have missed of the afterbirth. That'd make it a clear finish line.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I'm sorry to keep asking questions but ...
> 
> I just finished letting the kids nurse again (doeling seems better) and I noticed Midge's belly looked like it had dropped again and I saw movement. Could she have another kid in there? It's been 7 hours now since I found these two little guys. Or, could it just be gas? She did burb two times while I was out there.


 It is OK... to ask questions... never feel that you can't... :wink: 

Was it on the left side... that you seen the movements? That is her Rumen side and you will see it moving... if she has a good working rumen.... :wink:

Is she acting and eating normally?

I also ask... if she has dropped her afterbirth?


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

I feel silly now  

Yes, it was the left side that I saw movement. Yes, she also passed the afterbirth. 

I wish I had checked here first. Instead, I had to leave and go buy a bottle nipple. While I was gone, I called the vet. He came out and $123 later (emergency farm call fee) everything is fine.

I just got back in the door. I did find out why Midge's coat looks so bad. She has lice!!!

And guess what? While the vet was here, Esther popped out a gorgeous doeling right in front of us.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Does she seem like she still wants to push?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I feel silly now
> 
> Yes, it was the left side that I saw movement. Yes, she also passed the afterbirth.
> 
> ...


 Don't feel silly...we all started from somewhere...and it is a learning process.....I am still learning new things to this day.... :thumb:

Yes... the left side is her Rumen... get this....funny story with me...before I knew about the rumen movement...I thought and said to people ..."Look her babies are really moving in there".... so hey... I've been there....no worries... :wink: :laugh:

Vets do charge alot don't they....  anytime you have a question... we will try to help...if we feel that a vet should be called... we will let you or others know.... Or... if you feel at anytime ...your goat is really sick(down)...a vet should be called immediately... :hug:

Glad she passed the afterbirth.... :thumbup:

For the lice... there are 2 kinds.. biting and sucking....One type can be cured with topical ....while the other has to be injected..... Did the vet see the lice and instruct what kind they where?


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

This is definitely a lesson I won't forget LOL. 

He didn't say what kind of lice they were, but he gave me permethrin and told me to start using it in 2 weeks. He thought we shouldn't use it just yet because of the kids. I'm supposed to apply it to the back.

The doeling twin is still weak, but the buckling is doing very well. Sometimes, the doeling just stands very still, like she is in a trance. Is this normal? She was doing great earlier in the day. However, the last 2 feedings she hasn't wanted to nurse much. I tried an hour later and she wouldn't nurse at all. She just stands still in a trance. I plan to syringe feed her again when I go out in a few minutes.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

They could be pretty sleepy for the first day or two. Being born is hard work! haha. Congrats on the second doeling btw. I'm sure everything will work out. Just hang out for a bit and keep an eye on them. And keep us updated


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Well just wanted to say that for your first kiddings I think you have done a great Job. I am like you and still learning so don't be afraid to ask any questions. I have only had to kidding seasons so far so i have a ton to learn but have also learned alot from this forum so good luck and I hope that doeling starts feeling better.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Beautiful kids! And congrats too on Esther's new baby!

I really would only be giving the doeling moms milk...if you keep giving her the Bounce Back water, it will fill her belly and she won't be hungry enough to nurse, take her temperature too...a rectal temp on any age goat is normally between 101 and 103.5 F IF the baby girls temp is below 100* you'll need to warm her up then try to get her to nurse. Also, if mom is not being very attentive to the doeling, take some of her milk and rub a little on the baby's butt.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Midge's babies are still weak this morning. The buckling isn't at all like he was yesterday. He's now as weak as the doeling. I did happen to see the doeling nurse on her own first thing this morning. After this, I made the mistake of letting them out into their 30 x 30 pen (they had been locked up). Since then, I've not seen either baby nurse. The doe kind of wanders around and the kids just stay laying in once place. Even when I place them next to the doe and try to encourage nursing, they will not nurse.

I waited about 3 hours and finally locked the doe and the kids back up in their small house again ( 4' x 4' ). Maybe they will get the urge to nurse and can do so now that they're in close quarters again.

Is there anything else I can do? At this point, I am willing to bottle feed, but it seems like if I cannot get them to even nurse the doe, how will they nurse a bottle? They're just so weak. 

Esther's baby makes it easy to see what kids are supposed to be like. Her doeling is ALL over the place romping and playing. She's also twice the size of these guys. Maybe they were premature?


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

you could get a tube and tube feed them. If I were worried as you sound to be, I bet you are on the right track. If you feel they are too weak to take the bottle nipple then I am sure they lack the energy to nurse. If I were you I would see about getting a tube from a feed store. Pass the tube (they are about as big as spaghetti) from the throat into the tummy and give 2 ounces at a feeding. I would do this until they regain energy and can nurse on their own. So another doe of yours had a baby? Would she let them nurse? Maybe their own momma is kicking them off? Maybe the other doe would "adopt" them?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Permectrin II ..yes... I use it on the momma's backs...if the vet wants you to wait ...then it will be OK........

You must keep them in a small area..it is called a bonding Pen....for a minimum of 3 days or longer...depending on... if the momma is allowing the babies to nurse and if the babies are strong and nursing on their own...

Give them some nutradrench ...and a shot of VitB complex ...it will get the appetite going and give them energy.... I agree with what Liz mentioned...stop anything that will fill them... other than the momma's milk....it seems that they are getting full from the Bounce Back water...and not getting the nutrients to keep them strong... in a sense... they are starving....  get a syringe and feed the kids with that... 12 cc'er about 2x if they are a small breed or 4x if they are a larger breed... then ...go out every 2 hours and do this.... then... put them on mom after each time... to see if they will nurse on their own....leaving them a bit hungry.. will make them get the urge to suckle...if you get them to full with syringe feeding ...they won't suck from mom.... only use momma's milk.... 

Liz is also correct by saying... check her temp... if it is sub... it must come up to at minimum of 100 degree's before being fed.....

Premature or not...don't give up.... some preemies make it... depending on how early they are... :hug: ray:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

AWWW! That doeling is just to cute!!!!! You can send her my way


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

Oh and we bottle feed our kids, we give day old babies a bottle every 6 hours. So you only have to go out to see if they are nursing every 6 hours. Plus, if they have Mom they may nurse more often than that. :thumb:


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks again for all of the replies and help.

Yesterday, I only gave the Bounce Back 2x. Was that still too much? This morning, I didn't give any to the doeling but I gave some to the buckling because he looked so weak. I worried that he was dehydrated.

I haven't given him anymore since, but I finally brought him inside the house and plan to bottle feed him. That is, if he makes it. He's very weak. The only time his eyes are open is if I am trying to nurse him. I managed to syringe 8cc of milk into him about 2 hours ago. That didn't help much, so I gave him 2 more squirts of Nutra Drench hoping it might help. It hasn't either. I will try to get more milk into him in the next hour.

His temp was 103.9, but my thermometer might be a tad off. Since his temp seemed a tad high, I lifted the heat lamp away from him and off to the side. He is getting some warmth, but not direct warmth.

Is there anything else I can do? I don't have any VitB shots. My vet didn't leave anything because he thought the kids were fine yesterday. I can call him and try to pick some up tonight. What all should I ask for? VitB and BoSe?


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh, I hope they improve. I ditto what everyone else said. Make sure they are warm and get mama's milk down them. B-complex is always good.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Where are you located? A heat lamp this time of year would not be neccesary unless the night time temps would be below 50* Unless they had low temps before you used the lamp?

As weak as he is now, after doing so well yesterday has me puzzled....I do hope that you can get answers soon.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Liz, We're in FL, but I brought him inside. We keep it at 72 degrees in here, so I thought that might be too cold. Is it okay to turn the heat lamp off?

I am also puzzled. Yesterday, I thought the doeling was the one who wouldn't make it. Today, it's as if they have reversed roles. 

He just got 8cc of milk into him. Until I can get a Vit B shot, is it okay to give him more Nurta Drench?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the weather is warm... you don't need a heat lamp... that may be why his temp is slightly elevated...

I believe you can give nutradrench daily.... 

Did you give the syringe of milk to them ...very slowly... with lots of breaks in between? 

Do you know what the due date was for the birth...you mentioned they possibly might be premature? Do you know how early they may of been born?


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Toth - we bought them already bred. They were pasture bred sometime in March and April, so no exact due dates. I'm just wondering if they might be premies based on how tiny and weak they were (and still are).

After seeing the other baby being born and up and nursing within minutes, it made me realize that these two were born weak and not normal. Or, that's how it seems coming from a newbie :chin: 

I've been giving the buckling small amounts out of the syringe and then waiting for him to swallow. The doeling is no longer getting syringed milk. She seems to be nursing on her own, with just a little bit of help from me (I put her in the right spot under mom and she latches on).


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

BTW, here is my Esther doeling. Isn't she a doll?

I'm super pleased with the coloring/markings on both my little girls.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh how precious  
The doeling nursing does sound like a good sign. I will keep good thoughts for your little darlings.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awww...how cute....  


It sounds good... that the doeling is latching on...check her tummy and make sure she is getting enough...

The boy...keep doing what you are doing... If you feel he needs to be fed a bit more...by checking his tummy do so...don't get him over full.....that isn't good... but ...make sure... you can feel something in his tummy...we need to get his strength up....and giving him..very little may not be enough for him.....right now... 

If they are preemies....their lungs aren't finished being developed and they will not survive....it sounds good... that the doeling is striving.... :thumbup: 

Sometimes things can be wrong internally with a kid... that we cannot see and they may not make it...don't give up.... on the boy....the girl sounds to be on the right road....

Are the nights cold?

I'd go out... during the night as well and feed him.... he needs to be watched very close....

Is he standing at all? If not... he may need a Bo-se shot ..... that may be what he is lacking....  

Is the doeling strong on her feet?

Glad you are feeding him slowly ...you don't want to get it into his lungs... :hug: 

Praying that they will be OK... :hug: ray:


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

The doeling does stand and walk some, but she is not very strong and she doesn't stand very often.

The buckling was standing and walking okay yesterday, but today he won't stand on his own. He's just in a comatose state, unless I wake him up for food.

A friend is going to get some supplies for me from her vet. I'll be picking them up tomorrow. She's getting some IV fluids to give sub q and a vit B shot. Not sure about to BoSe. I will have to contact my vet and see if he has it.

Nights here are pretty warm. I think it doesn't get below 85.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They need a B0-se shot right away...... try to get some from another goat breeder ..1/4 cc to each kid.... they are selenium deficient....and need that shot to get them going.... they need it desperately...the sooner you get it the better...

With the buckling... as I mentioned... doesn't sound like he is getting enough ...how is his tummy compared to his sister?

Make sure... it is the "vitB complex"..


The nights sound to be OK....so there isn't any need... to put out a heat a lamp or anything....


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

I have a call into my vet. I emailed the breeder who sold me the does, but haven't heard back and I don't have her phone # anymore. Hopefully, I can get a Bose shot before it's too late.

His tummy is about as big as his sister's, maybe a tad smaller. I upped his milk consumption to 12cc this last feeding. Is 12cc too much to feed every 2 hours?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

12cc is only half an ounce.... if he will take more and is swallowing I would try and get a full ounce into him.

If you would make a thread in the Special Care section of the forum, you may get more help.


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## BoringGoat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you! I will do that now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> 12cc is only half an ounce.... if he will take more and is swallowing I would try and get a full ounce into him.


 Liz is right.... get more into him.........he needs it... :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I wouldn't take them inside in the ac of the house. That is harder on their system than the regular outside temp. 
How many teeth are in their mouth? How much hair do they have on them? Can you get photos of them to help see if they look premie. 
Hope they start doing better for you!


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