# I've never given shots before....



## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Okay guys, help me out. 

I'm a little nervous about giving shots. I do all the other chores all the time; I'm the main goat caregiver, I guess. I trim hooves, tote hay and feed bags, scrub water troughs, brush, clip, give baths, drench, assist births, deworm, everything-except give shots (at least so far) my dad has always done it, but only if he HAS to. 
I need to know how for emergencies, and I'd like to be able to give the occasional B shot or thiamine, or even injectable wormer, without freaking out or hurting my goats.
Right now I'm facing giving our whole herd (ten goats) their first CD&T shots. (At least it's a first for us)
I want to know if this is no big deal to you more experienced people, or do I need to learn gradually? 
I can get my brother to help me hold them, he's pretty strong  and of course I could put them in the milk stand as well, but I'd like some advice.


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

I do mine by the "armpit" a lot of extra skin there! I straddled pinch up the skin and stick in the needle I usually do them subq ( which means under the skin not in the muscle). Once I have the needle in I draw back to make sure there is no blood (like I hit a vain by accident) and then push the meds on in. 15 seconds max. Just make sure to switch out needles between goats. I sometimes will use the same Syringe and just change out needles

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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks jennaragsdale; our vet said you can use the same needle, change every four or five goats..?


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

Not the same needle, maybe the samr syringe but definately not the same needle.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Hmmm. Wonder why he said that? I guess with cows and horses it doesnt matter as much? Cause I think that's what he deals with mostly.


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

You "could" but it promotes disease spread would you want to have the same needle that was used on your kid used on you? Plus needles loose their sharp after a use and it starts to hurt more and more

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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I've heard that sometimes the goats will scream and or thrash around a lot when you give the shot. That would be rather unnerving to me, does it happen often?


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

I haven't had that one happen yet it goes so fast

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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks againI'm not going to rush into this right away.
I'd like to hear different perspectives of giving shots before I dive in.
I d not want to be nervous when I go to do it. 
Appreciate your input!


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

If you want to get the feel for it, practice sticking on an orange a time or two. It's very similar in feel. Needles dull with each stick and the spread of disease is possible as well so I would change out after each injection also. I have better control on the stand if they get squirmy. Don't worry. It's easier than you think!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

AdamsAcres said:


> If you want to get the feel for it, practice sticking on an orange a time or two. It's very similar in feel. Needles dull with each stick and the spread of disease is possible as well so I would change out after each injection also. I have better control on the stand if they get squirmy. Don't worry. It's easier than you think!


I was hoping someone would say that! 
My dad gave my ND buck a shot not long ago, and he Sid it felt like sticking a needle into a football! Lol, I guess the boys have thicker skin?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Practice on a stuffed animal, too! Oranges and stuffed animals don't holler much!  
You will get better as you practice. Just make sure, when you give the goat kid the CD+T that the needle goes under
the skin and not through it, or you will shoot it out the other side!

Make a tent and stick the needle in. You will feel when it goes all the way under the skin. (Don't shove into the muscle).
New needles on each kid- they are pretty cheap- no sense inviting infections and contamination. Always put a new needle
into the bottle.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

NDlover said:


> Hmmm. Wonder why he said that? I guess with cows and horses it doesnt matter as much? Cause I think that's what he deals with mostly.


Yea, every animal should have a new sterile syringe and needle for each different injection. Doesn't matter if they are a horses, cattle, goats, dogs, etc. People do reuse needles, but that is very poor practice. They see it as a money saving move. But I personally cringe at the thought.

Reusing a needle can spread infection. Think about all the batcteria that just live on skin as normal flora. They don't cause infection on the skin. But if they ride along on the tip of a needle deep into the skin/muscle, boom, infection at the injection site. Also, a needle becomes markedly more dull even after just one more use. That means it takes more force to get the needle into the skin, if it is used again.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

NDlover said:


> Hmmm. Wonder why he said that? I guess with cows and horses it doesnt matter as much? Cause I think that's what he deals with mostly.


I don't know about cows but with horses you should always change the needle. 

I give mine on their hind leg where there is a lot of muscle. That's where my vet taught me to put it. Sometimes they thrash a little but they never scream. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I was a little surprised that he said to reuse needles; we had always used separate ones before. So I guess just throw it away once you've used it?


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

NDlover said:


> Thanks everyone! I was a little surprised that he said to reuse needles; we had always used separate ones before. So I guess just throw it away once you've used it?


Tossing would be the best thing to do once they've been used!


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## cheyenne (Aug 21, 2011)

My vet told me to reuse the needles too! I thought that was crazy!!! He only gave me enough needles that I had to use the same needle 2 times. I did it but I hated the thought of it. So far I have only had to give shots to one goat four days in a row. (He did the first one) 

If anything ever makes me give up goats... it would be giving shots and hoof trimming! 

For the shots, I had my husband hold her, but him not being an animal person, didn't do a very good job holding. I stuck myself in the thumb with the used needle once too! The goat and I both survived however! lol 

Also, I watched the videos on Youtube on giving shots... young children were doing it with no problem! I felt like such a wimp!!!! They were giving in the armpit also on the video... but my vet told me to give in the neck.. he'd never given them in the armpit so he couldn't tell me how that worked. But he had this look on his face that made me go 'ok in the neck". I think I could have managed to do it alone if I had done them in the armpit. 

It would be so wonderful to have experienced goat people all around me to learn such tasks, but nope... I'm here on my little island of NON goat people! Well, if they are around here... they are hiding!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

For cows they are often running them through a squeeze chute and using a dose gun instead of a syringe so, yeah they use the needle 'til it gets real dull and then change it out. 

If you happen to pull blood back into the syringe, it's good idea to change it out before the next animal and throw it away. Many diseases including CAE can be spread by contaminated syringes.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Don't think we have any oranges right now, but I'm sure I can find a few stuffed animals!  ill be working on it!Thanks


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## summerdreamer71 (Jan 25, 2013)

I wouldn't use the same needle twice. The needles become dull and it could leaf to disease. Just not a good idea.


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

You don't want to use the neck incase an abscess occurres it can get confused for cl. Armpits are great lots of extra skin there!

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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

One of our doelings has a small lump on her neck where the vet gave her a tetanus shot when she was disbudded. I think I heard that they don't go away unless you lance them?


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

if its small and not growing it just keep an eye on it the body may take care of it. If not then yep there are a lot of threads right now about how to do it 

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## Goatgirl21 (Jan 25, 2013)

NDlover said:


> Thanks jennaragsdale; our vet said you can use the same needle, change every four or five goats..?


Needles are cheap, I would use one for each goat


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## ndeboer (Jun 20, 2013)

My vet said we could use the same needle for all our goats too...I don't know why. I would never consider doing that for our horses. I give mine how jennnaragsdale suggested - pinch up the skin in the 'armpit' (right behind the front leg on the side) and poke in the needle, making sure it does not hit muscle or go all the way through to the other side. 
If it makes you feel any better, mine barely jumped - and they're not all that tame - I had my hubby holding them.
Good luck!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Many vets are just not goat orientated. They still see them as inferior pets, exotics or minor livestock. Most have only touched on 
goat medicine for a short time in Vet school. They are still under the old impression of the billy goat eating a can. So that type of 
animal should be able to be minimally cared for, hence the same needle for numerous goats. 

As goats become more popular in this country, hopefully, the vets will also update their opinions and abilities with goats! 
Until then, we all have to educate our local vets and each other with the correct medications etc. for our goats!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Yeah, it is frustrating to feel like you know more about your animals than your vet, especially when you need help with something. Ours vet(s) are very kind, and they do their best, but goats are just not what they do.
He told us the other day that they only have 3 goat herds in the area that they work with occasionally, and I'm pretty sure he said they were all meat goats. Dairy goats are a lot different than meat goats, so that makes it worse, lol. I'm really glad to have this forum to get me through tough spots!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

NDlover said:


> Yeah, it is frustrating to feel like you know more about your animals than your vet, especially when you need help with something. Ours vet(s) are very kind, and they do their best, but goats are just not what they do.
> He told us the other day that they only have 3 goat herds in the area that they work with occasionally, and I'm pretty sure he said they were all meat goats. Dairy goats are a lot different than meat goats, so that makes it worse, lol. I'm really glad to have this forum to get me through tough spots!


yes, without this forum, i would not have goats. sad how some vets are willing to learn and help even though they're not knowledgeable or experienced, and some just brush you off like you're an idiot for knowing certain things. unfortunately, the 2nd type of vet are the livestock kinds I've dealt with down here. it's sheep and horse country, so they just think goats are sheep. sigh.

good luck with the needles!


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

We just did a learning seminar on injections for the 4H kids. Practice subq (under the skin injections) on a banana- try to get the injection just under the peel, not in the white (meat/ muscle). Use the orange to practice IM (in the muscle) injections. Cut the fruit at your injection site afterwards and see how you did. 

BTW- some of mine screamed bloody murder when given shots. It depends on the goat. These same ones will yell for any reason, LOL.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

And, ALWAYS use clean needles for the injections. You can use the same needle in the bottle and draw out of it into clean, sterile syringes,then use a clean needle to inject into the animal. For example, when injecting multiple animals with the same stuff, I put an 18 g needle in the bottle, draw out what I need, put another needle on the syringe (maybe a 22g) and inject into the animal. I dispose of the needle and syringe in a used laundry detergent bottle (nearly impossible to stick through) and then get a new syringe and draw up the next dose and repeat. Remember to scrub the rubber stopper on the bottle for at least 15 seconds with alcohol before sticking the needle in.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> And, ALWAYS use clean needles for the injections. You can use the same needle in the bottle and draw out of it into clean, sterile syringes,then use a clean needle to inject into the animal. For example, when injecting multiple animals with the same stuff, I put an 18 g needle in the bottle, draw out what I need, put another needle on the syringe (maybe a 22g) and inject into the animal. I dispose of the needle and syringe in a used laundry detergent bottle (nearly impossible to stick through) and then get a new syringe and draw up the next dose and repeat. Remember to scrub the rubber stopper on the bottle for at least 15 seconds with alcohol before sticking the needle in.


Got it! I'm not going to be reusing needles!  
Good idea about using a laundry detergent bottle to dispose.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh and get the screw on type syringes. It's really annoying when the meds push the needle off the push on kind.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Well, I have several new syringes that are push-on, but I need to get more anyway. I asked them to get me some syringes just to have on hand, different sizes, with and without needles and so on, and then I asked for CD&T vaccine, which I got from there as well, and they thought I wanted the syringes for that, I guess, cause they only gave me 3 of them along with 6 18 gauge push on needles. I was talking with the vet when the girl packed up our stuff, so I didn't realize till we got home. 
But we have to take the dog for a rabies shot soon, and I'll try to get better supplies.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I always give my CDT shots in the muscle in the neck. When giving in the hind leg you have to be careful that you do not hit the nerve that runs through the middle of the leg, if you do you can cripple them. When I took the meat goat program through Langston university they said you can use 1 needle per 10 goats. I don't, but this is more for people with large herds. It takes a lot of time to change out needles each time and when you have hundreds of goats (or cows) it is more economical to use the same needle. Most people with large cow or goat herd also use one of those automatic dosing guns, where you suck up the whole contents of the bottle and then set the gun to only allow so much of the vaccine to come out at a time, when you push the plunger On these you use a little bit heavier duty, better quality needle than what you use on little syringes. In small herds, it is better to use different needles, if you are running hundreds of goats it is easier to use the same needle.


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## goatkid (Jan 17, 2009)

You definately want to change needles between goats. It's one way to spread CAE. You also don't want to put anything unsterile back into your bottle of meds.


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## MBTaplin (Dec 7, 2012)

Arem't there some shots that have to be put into a muscle? I know for use bipeds antibiotics need to be put into a large muscle mass.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

MBTaplin said:


> Arem't there some shots that have to be put into a muscle? I know for use bipeds antibiotics need to be put into a large muscle mass.


Lots of different shots need to be IM.


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## Thesoapmaster (Jan 12, 2010)

I agree with everything already said. It isn't hard. If you pinch the skin and lift it out from the body, you are making a tent-like little area away from any muscle/tissue so you won't be poking through anything except the skin. Skin is tough so you have to put a little force behind your "jab". If you go directly under the skin you won't have ANY chance of poking a blood vessel. DO NOT draw back on the needle. Inject your medication and get out of there. NEVER use the same needle twice. The risk of spreading CAE, CL and so many other diseases is to great to be economical with needles. Get a "sharps container" and use it to store your spent needles in. You can, however, resuse syringes. When giving 4 different shots. Color code the syringes with a marker, put a similar mark on your medications bottles and then you can do the whole herd with 4 syringes, but always use a new needle. Most vets are not educated in goat care. It wasn't popular until recently so they are just starting to learn that while goats will eat a variety of stuff that no one else will touch, they are one of the more fragile of the barnyard creatures in their bodies and digestive systes. When things affect goats, it happens fast so your learning to do shots is a very good thing. Get your brother/father to supervise you while you do it for a couple of times. Make them walk you through, but you do all the work by yourself. I am a 63 yr.old female and find that if I straddle the goat with it head behind me, grab the skin behind a front leg, and inject fast, the goat never gets a chance to scream, buck, or act stupid. You will do just fine and if you need help we are there.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks, I did it all on my own!  I have watched my dad give shots before, and since I've done just about everything else goat related, it wasn't too big of a deal. I gave some B shots not too long ago, and everything went fine.
I did notice on one of my goats, that there's a hard area where I gave the shot(I think) , but I'm not sure if its the side I gave the shot, or if it was already there when I got her. I never noticed it before, but I wasn't paying attention. It quite possible that it was already there.
It feels kind of like a round area of really thick skin. I've heard of abscesses form injections, but is this thick-skin thing normal?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Sounds normal, sometimes they will just get a little bit of a firm spot from the shot and it will eventually go away.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Good! I was a little bothered by it; glad it's okay.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

One more question: what can I treat an injection site abcess with? One of my doelings is developing one- looks painful - and I don't know if I should put something on it or not.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

NDlover said:


> One more question: what can I treat an injection site abcess with? One of my doelings is developing one- looks painful - and I don't know if I should put something on it or not.


You can ice it, massage it, or children's aspirin.


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