# Still born kids



## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

My Alpine doe just had her first kids. Twins and they were preemie and stillborn. She's in great health. She's well cared for. Anything I can do to prevent this? 
We're so sad. Poor Connie, but I'm going to milk her colostrum and freeze it in case we have any more kids that need special care. I have 3 does yet to kid in about a month. 
I did it by the books....but I'm still feeling responsible.


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## apachedowns (Mar 14, 2010)

Oh I am so sorry to hear this....We have been hearing this WAY TOO MANY times this past week...It has been a very bad kidding year for many so far.

The best thing you can do for her is keep a close eye on her and lots of love...You may want to put her on a course of Pennicillian for 5 days, some probios, and a little vit b will not hurt either...be sure to keep an eye on her temp and her appetite...did she pass the afterbirth yet ? is she up on worming ? Membrane color look good ? I always worm my doe anyway within 36 hours after delivery. I sure some others will jump in as well and give you some good advice.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

I haven't found the afterbirth.... it's very possible her or another goat ate it. I was in their pen, left and came back an hour later and saw the babies. I will worm her though. I forgot that, embarrassed.
I'll check her temp often, she's eating well...very well. 

Gotcha about the vitamins, probios, and pennicillin.


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## Nubiansrus1 (Sep 2, 2009)

So sorry for your loss. I know how it feels. I bet you didnt do anything wrong. Sometimes it just happens. *hugs*


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Thank you guys. I appreciate not being blamed. I love my girls SO much.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:hug: Sorry to hear that. 
When was she due? Have you had any previous stillborns? 
Sometimes these things just happen.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2012)

Possible Chlamydia I have had my herd on CTC for the last 14 days since one of my does aborted, which is what happened. Find all parts of this birth and destroy by burning, Chlamydia can stay with the materials and blow in the wind.
Isolate the Doe from the herd for at least 3 weeks so no discharge is present and she has time to clean out.
Get the smallest dose pellets you can find, I think mine were 10 gram and I fed 5 lbs to 150 head
Chlamydiosis

Chlamydia is a common cause of infectious abortion in goats. In chronically infected herds almost 50% of abortions are the result of infection with these bacteria (Chlamydia psittaci). The birth of weak kids may also be associated with Chlamydia. Chlamydia can cause conjunctivitis (pink eye), and polyarthritis (arthritis in multiple joints), though the exact strains of the Chlamydia bacteria causing these diseases differ from those causing abortion. Goats become infected orally from bacteria shed in the feces and uterine discharges of infected goats.

Signs and symptoms

A history of late term abortions, stillbirths, and birth of weak kids is always suggestive of Chlamydiosis. The aborted fetus may be fresh or decomposed in appearance. The time from infection to abortion may vary. Female kids infected with the organism at birth may abort in their first pregnancy. Does exposed to the bacteria in the first half of gestation may abort in the last trimester of that pregnancy. Does exposed in the last half of gestation usually abort in the subsequent pregnancy. Once abortion has occurred, does appear to have immunity as affected animals seldom abort more than once due to Chlamydiosis.

Treatment, prevention, and control

Remove aborting does from the herd for at least 3 weeks. Placentas and fetuses should be removed and burned or buried. To minimize exposure, ensure that all feed and water sources are protected from fecal contamination. Treating all does in an abortion outbreak with tetracycline may reduce additional abortions. Consult your veterinarian for drugs, dosage, and withdrawal information. There is a vaccine approved for sheep available as a single antigen or in combination with Campylobacter. Consult your veterinarian for potential use in goats.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

She was due in about 5 weeks. 
I didn't think of chlamydia. Thank you! I'll definitely study it and take care of that! Very possible.....let's pray the rest of the kids will be ok.
You guys are so full if info, in such a kind and constructive way. That's beyond helpful for people. 
I'm going to do some more homework and try to prepare for as many possible situations as I can. Thank goodness for the internet


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with possible Chlamydia...I'd get her tested just in case...

If you a have other Does around...she may of gotten slammed really hard in the belly...then she aborted.... mold in feed....and a lot of stress.. can do it as well....
I am so sorry for your losses...  :hug:


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

I'll definitely check into chlamydia. It's actually very possible she got slammed in the tummy. One doe started doing this a couple days ago. We separated them yesterday but it may have caused this.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Quick question : Since I couldn't find the placenta, one of two things could have happened. She or another goat ate it or it wasn't expelled. 

What would you recommend I do in this situation??


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

There are other infectious bacteria that can cause abortions. Some can transmit to humans so hand with gloves to be safe. You can send the fetus and or placenta for testing. WADDL is one spot you can send for testing. Hopefully it was just one of those things. If any others abort testing may be in your best intreats. Some things they actually suggest that you expose the other goats to the doe so that it can spread and then you treat with the medicated feed to prevent other abortions this kidding season and next. Other causes you do not want the doe exposed to anyone else in the herd.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Can't imagine another doe eating it bit maybe her. I personally would put her on a 7 day course of Penicillian and when it it done continue watch temp for a few days.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Ok, call to vet tomorrow to find out about testing the fetus.
I can get pennicillan at tractor supply, right? Or vet?


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

So sorry about your loss :hug: Hope the mom is doing ok.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Thank you Maw. The doe is actually doing great. I'm happy cause I'd be devastated to lose her


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

So sorry that the kids were stillborn. I know how badly you must feel. :hug: 
Last year one of my first freshners lost quads at day 132. 2 had been dead for several days..one lived for 1/2 day. I felt so bad and kept questioning myself about what I could have done to prevent it. I treated her with antibiotics for 5 days...and she recovered fully. I milked her for 9 months and she is a sweetheart. She's now pregnant and due in April...she is already huge and I'm worried again about multiples. The other 3 does had successful - not too eventfull kiddings. [7 kids in all] 
I wish you easy kiddings with the rest. :hug:


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## kid'n'kaboodle (Mar 5, 2011)

:hug: So sorry. I hope the rest of the kidding season goes better for you.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I would be heart-broken as I am sure you are. We try so hard but some things are just not in our control. I am sure you did nothing wrong. Glad the mama is recovering well.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Sorry for your loss. It sounds like you have gotten some good advice already. 

Since the doe is recovering fine it sounds to me like she got headbutted and that caused her to abort. I would keep a close eye on your other does and if anyone else aborts then I would send off the kids and placenta for testing. Make sure to wear gloves when touching the kid, placenta or any birthing fluids if another aborts. :hug:


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

Will it be safe for me to milk her colostrum and freeze it?


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2012)

You can get Pen at Tractor supply. There is a good chance that she didn't expel the placenta it is too late for Oxytocin to be of help probably and you probably don't have any. She will be fine the afterbirth will work its way out, all the more reason to get the antibiotics in her and separate from the herd. Your concern now is the unborn kids you are expecting it would be cheaper in the long run to check into the injections for the other pregnant Does, I don't know if the vet can tell you by looking at the kids, and I'm not sure if there is a test for it but if the injections are cheaper than a necropsy + lab which they are I'm sure that is what I would do.
You can tie up a lot of money on a lab test that comes back inconclusive and too late to do you any good. Get the others on a preventative asap.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I really dont worry about abortions if it is only one doe, as these things can and do happen from time to time. If there is a second abortion that is when i worry and take the dead kid and placenta for testing. Retained afterbirth is a common complication of abortion and for that reason i would stick her on a course of antibiotics.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

So sorry to hear of your loss....sometimes theres nothing we can do to prevent them. Tractor supply carries Pen G as well as needles/syringes.

Milk her out too...I'm sure that she's got plenty in her udder to put in the freezer for future use and milking her will help stimulate contraction of the uterus and help with expelling anything that may be left....I've had a doe who delivered a stillborn and I milked her 3 times a day from the time she delivered until I took her to 2x a day on the 7th day after she delivered...give her lots of attention and be sure she continues to eat and drink, also, you'll need to dump the milk during the time she's on the antibiotic...some don't but since my hubby has an allergy to Penicillan, I felt it best to dump the milk on the compost pile during the 2 weeks my doe was on Pen G and for 3 days after the last shot...just in case.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

I greatly appreciate the advice. I had to leave out of town for the past 5 hours and I checked on her right away. I saw some bloody mucus on the floor, but no afterbirth. Perhaps she ate it. She is doing well though. I'll start the penn tomorrow as I need to take a trip to tractor supply. How much should i give her as she's about 80 pounds? I'll scale her to be sure. Then I don't have to dig in my notes. I'm exhausted. And I gotta get up in 5 hours lol


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You can dose her at 1cc per 20lbs...I prefer to do 2x a day for 7 days but I'm sure that others may do it 1x a day for 5.


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

So, yesterday was a long day. Connie (sick goat in question) was doing poorly. After many trips to the vet, she's fine today.
Thanks to your information I knew what to ask for. I gave her pennicillin, b complex, and BoSe. She was very much all over me and I spent more time in the goat house than my own house trying to make her comfortable. She just wanted me there with her. She's lucky I love her.....it was 18 degrees yesterday! Brrrrr! 
But she's doing well today and I'll continue the penn and b complex. 

Thank you!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is doing better ..that is good to hear.... :thumb: :clap:


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## realfarmgirl (Feb 26, 2011)

yes tractor supply carries pennicillan


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

How is your goat doing, and did your vet think it was worthwhile doing a necropsy on the fetus? 

Just so you know, some states subsidize necropsies at the State Agricultural College, Veterinary schools, or through Extension or something - - for in-state residents -- because they would rather find out about any illness or epidemics before they get out of hand. In NYS it only costs $60 for a complete necropsy if you live here, but about twice that (at least) for out-of-state residents.

An example of why the State might want to subsidize necropsies: this summer a whole bunch of perfectly healthy sheep and goats and lambs and kids dropped dead for no clear reason. Turned out we had a barber-pole epidemic with all the overcast skies and damp pastures this summer. Might also have to do with mineral deficiencies in our forages which show up in years when the hay crop doesn't get enough sunny days here. The State of NY and the USDA then gave out a warning to sheep and goat producers that these conditions existed and what we might do to minimize losses under these unusually wet conditions. 

If your state subsidizes necropsies, or your vet is knowledgeable to do a quick necropsy for you, and it is affordable, it is always a good idea. You can sometimes catch something in the early stages.

BTW, most abortions or miscarriages -- especially the really early ones that you usually won't notice -- are due to some flaw in the embryo. If you get repeat miscarriages or failures to breed with a particular doe and buck, you might consider trying a different buck who is more genetically compatible with that doe. And then, yes, a fall or butting in the belly or undue stress (chased by predators or whatever) can also cause an abortion.

Sometimes it is nice to get the results of a quick necropsy just for peace of mind -- to rule out disease or toxic plants in the pasture or whatever. 

Just a thought.

Chris


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 21, 2012)

I live in a tiny tiny area and my vet didn't think it was important at all. However that is very helpful info and if another doe aborts I will have a necropsy done. 
My doe is doing fantastic, thanks for asking. I got very good advice.


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