# Ignore the color.. what do you think of his build?



## R.Williamson

Color aside I would genuinely like a harsh critique on this boy. The stand is at a rather steep angle because I needed to get the head part low enough for this fellow's head. The stand is pretty large and I purchased it for my grown goats. Anywho, more to the point.I would like a harsh critique as to the pro's and cons of this boy. He is not clipped (obviously) and straight out of the pen. First time on a stand. If the angles are bad please let me know what angle you would prefer so I can get a picture from that angle. Born 2/20/2020


























































Born 2/20/20


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## ksalvagno

I'm not good at critiquing but love his coloring.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

@toth boer goats @CountyLineAcres and @SalteyLove are great at judging boers!


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## CountyLineAcres

Flashy boy! I will do my best.

Pros:
- stands square
- looks wide front to back
- bone looks good for his age 
- strong rear pasterns

Cons:
- breaks behind shoulders
- slightly steep rump 
- needs more rear muscling
- straight head
- short bodied

I would say that his biggest strength is his squareness and width. Biggest weakness is his topline. One thing I couldn’t accurately judge were his front pasterns.


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## R.Williamson

Thank you


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## toth boer goats

CountyLineAcres said:


> Flashy boy! I will do my best.
> 
> Pros:
> - stands square
> - looks wide front to back
> - bone looks good for his age
> - strong rear pasterns
> 
> Cons:
> - breaks behind shoulders
> - slightly steep rump
> - needs more rear muscling
> - straight head
> - short bodied
> 
> I would say that his biggest strength is his squareness and width. Biggest weakness is his topline. One thing I couldn't accurately judge were his front pasterns.


Very good judgment. I agree.


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## CountyLineAcres

toth boer goats said:


> Very good judgment. I agree.


Thank you!


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## R.Williamson




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## Jessica84

His top looks much better in those pictures. Still not straight as a board but I was really not liking it in the first batch of pictures. Some people can get their animals to look so nice on the stand, mine are the same as this guy and they look terrible. I think because they are pulling back so much. 
I do though agree with CountryLineAcres on what she had to say. But I do have to say he looks like a good sized kid and I think he is growing very well. Do you have a weight on him?


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## R.Williamson

In the first set of pics he is just a little over 2 months. I do not have a weight on him but my 6'2 son has a hard time lifting him lol. The 2nd set of pics he is actually about 5 weeks old give or take. 
He has his issues no doubt. Curious to see how he turns out


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## SalteyLove

Looking forward to seeing more photos as he grows.


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## R.Williamson

I look forward to watching him grow as well ty. I will definitely be posting updated pics of him


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## R.Williamson

toth boer goats said:


> (thumbup)


 As promised some updated pics of this boy. The boards in the background are 2x8's. I figure that should help as a size reference. I know I do not have pics from the front. I figured I would grab a few photos while I was feeding. The ground in here is also not flat.


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## R.Williamson

The black doe in the background is his Mom.


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## SalteyLove

For me, it's all about the growth! What's his weight and age now or ADG? 

How are his teat structure and dams udder? 

I like him overall! I think his Roman nose could be stronger and I'm not crazy about his testicle shape/fullness/or split right now.


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## Jessica84

He looks like he is maturing nicely! Really the only two things that are really jumping at me as a con is he’s a bit posty in his back legs and weak pastures. But I do think that a lot of Times the Pastures (ignore my spell check I’m over the constant battle) are caused by selenium deficiency. In some pictures he looks to have decent length and in others not so much but I do like him better in these pictures


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## R.Williamson

Born 2-20-2020 currently weighs 68.5lbs . 5.5lbs at birth ADG is 0.75. No creep feed. Fed with the does. His Teat structure is a clean 1x1 , He is 84 days at this point. He is getting pulled this week to go into his own area.









Dam's teats are pictured. 2x1 .


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## R.Williamson

SalteyLove said:


> For me, it's all about the growth! What's his weight and age now or ADG?
> 
> How are his teat structure and dams udder?
> 
> I like him overall! I think his Roman nose could be stronger and I'm not crazy about his testicle shape/fullness/or split right now.


I completely agree on his head. It needs some work. His testicles too. That is a problem from his sire's side. His testicles are a massive improvement over his sire's. I purchased his sire to address a lack of Bone in my goats. He definitely delivered the bone. The does have made some drastic improvements in the testicular region of their bucklings. My next goal is to bring in a bit more of that roman nose. One step at a time as they say  I believe the girl I recently added into the herd (lord help me that one is another story!) will be a big improvement in that area. I purchased her specifically with this buck in mind. I hate her teat structure but this boy should fix it.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im not as awesome as County line..or Toth or Jessica..but what they are telling you can be corrected. His loin length will blossum between 3 & 4 months. Thats why in the later pictures he looks more balanced. Like you said no grain. He needs some top weight with proper feed, you can improve that.
Salty brought up the none roman nose look. Thats fine..feed him out, walk him go for the new tubular look. He may not be stocky enough for the bulky standard boer. But this new tubular slick look. You could pull off. 
Im no expert. And this buckling is gorgeous. Please dont try to lock him in 1 way. Ok? Hes good! Very nice for so young!


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## R.Williamson

Moers kiko boars said:


> Im not as awesome as County line..or Toth or Jessica..but what they are telling you can be corrected. His loin length will blossum between 3 & 4 months. Thats why in the later pictures he looks more balanced. Like you said no grain. He needs some top weight with proper feed, you can improve that.
> Salty brought up the none roman nose look. Thats fine..feed him out, walk him go for the new tubular look. He may not be stocky enough for the bulky standard boer. But this new tubular slick look. You could pull off.
> Im no expert. And this buckling is gorgeous. Please dont try to lock him in 1 way. Ok? Hes good! Very nice for so young!


Aww ty. Seriously you are going to make me blush lol. Heh I just like to keep my eyes open to flaws. Not because I am downgrading them, but because it helps me figure out exactly what I want to pair them with. This breeding to get him was planned out 2 years ago when I purchased his Sire. I most likely have too many bucks, but I have them each for different reasons. I have a 2yr old ( this boy's sire) , a yearling, this fellow and the boy who will soon be his "Bunkmate". I do not like to keep a goat solo so I try to pair them off. His original bunk mate passed so I purchased a new one for him after the previous one passed. I am planning to attempt to show him this fall as well as one or two others. My first attempt at it. His Bunkmate will be accompanying him.


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## R.Williamson

He does get grain I just do not creep feed.


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## R.Williamson

Well today I moved Spade into a smaller area that we generally use for weaning/kidding. I looked at him in there and determined he needs a much larger area. The current one is 4x16 . As I said I generally use it for weaning and kidding. Well, he is officially being pulled from his Mom today. He could care less. So here are a few pics. These are goat panels. Not a peep out of him. His Mom is another story. She did not make a peep when I removed her doe kid but moving this fellow upset her a lot. He is solo in his pen but has some bottle babies directly next door for company .


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## CountyLineAcres

Looks to be growing well!


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## R.Williamson

Thank you! I am happy with him so far


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes hes starting to lengthen.get that rib cage spring. His baby face is changing. His jaw is growing, and the neckbase also. His leggy look will be less next month
Looking good to me! Just be aware at weaning his sytem may need more food. Since moms no longer helping him.


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## R.Williamson

Thank you  I wish I could have gotten a better pic but he moves his head sooo much lol. Plus he is super nosy. So it is really hard. He currently has alfalfa/orchard hay in his hay feeder as well as some pellets in the pan and minerals. My bigger worry is him gorging himself.


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## Moers kiko boars

(thumbup)


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## R.Williamson

Just for giggles I figured I would post a few pics of Spade's twin sister. He ended up with most of the dapples but she sure is a flashy girl hehe. She has a few dapples on her shoulders that have sprung up over the last month. Since we are keeping him we will be selling her.


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## R.Williamson




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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## R.Williamson

Well i clipped Spade today. LOL It is not a good clip but I think he is improving.It is just really hard to get good ,solid pics at the moment. I know these do not help on conformation just figured I would post an update on him.


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## Moers kiko boars

Looking good!


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## R.Williamson

Thank you


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## R.Williamson

@Moers kiko boars Here is the pic you asked for. The red dappled his sire. Sire is pictured at about 1 1/2. His dam is the big black doe.


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## Moers kiko boars

Spade is going to be huge! Lol lol.


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## R.Williamson

Moers kiko boars said:


> Spade is going to be huge! Lol lol.


LOl thanks. His Mom is one of the biggest does I have ever seen. It takes very little to keep her weight. I actually have to be careful she doesn't get too much. She is a bit of a booger at times with her skittishness but luckily Spade does not take after that part of her. I can legit move my bucks around easier than her. I did not expect her to be anywhere near as strong as she is


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## Moers kiko boars

Well looking at the Sire & Dam side by side, the dam looks small. Lol So the Sire must be very wide & long. Honestly..I dont think I would sell Spade. Have you thought about some shows close to you? Just so people could see him? He is classy and good bone, width, and big for his age. Just sayin....


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## R.Williamson

I have thought about it. There is supposed to be one in Perry GA around August. I have been trying to get additional info but they have not posted entry forms yet either. WIth the show supposed to be in August that has me worried.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes they cancelled Oklahoma city's state fair. No animals. That was a shock.


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## R.Williamson

I expect this one to get cancelled. With SC and GA Covid cases going up I figure it is bound to happen. All aside the sharp spike is because they are actually testing now. I do have Spade in a Facebook auction again. If he hits my reserve he will sell  It is a fairly low one in my opinion for him but I really need to make sure we get everything setup on the new place. You can tell by my posts I keep going back and forth. I am seriously torn


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## Moers kiko boars

I wish you the best whatever happens. At least you own the parents. You can always do it again. Right?


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## R.Williamson

Yes indeed. This round his Mom will be bred to my buck Ranger. He is the red head in the pics lol. Half Codi. Ranger has caught up and passed Beef since this pic was taken.Beef has grown as well. He is not as thick as I feel he should be but he is really long. Thing is most of the bucks I have dealt with seem to go through stages/growth spurts. Currently Beef is in an ugly duckling stage again. I figure by 3 he will be putting my last buck Boris to shame.


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## R.Williamson

This is Boris. he was a Pureblood though not Fullblood. Also a bit stunted lol


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## Moers kiko boars

Just a poor tiny boy...lol


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## R.Williamson

well... would this make it easier lol . This pic is literally the same goat


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## R.Williamson

^^ That pic is when I brought Bo back home after I sold him the first time when I hurt myself. I was ticked . The pic I posted above that one is after a few months


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## Moers kiko boars

How many years apart?


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## R.Williamson

Not years. A few months


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## Moers kiko boars

Wow...what happened to him. Poor baby. Why were they so mean ro him?


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## R.Williamson

I brought him home wormed him, gave a copper bolus and fed him with everyone else. This fellow was legit my baby and as such I over babied him into a spoiled brat.


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## Moers kiko boars

Well...hesvan awsome spoiled brat!


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## R.Williamson

They had him for almost a year. I had him for a few months between those pics. I have no clue what they did to him but he was so pathetic when I got him back


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## Moers kiko boars

You did a great job with him. Those other people need to be arrested for animal abuse. Im sure Glad you got him back!


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## R.Williamson

These were taken not long before I sold him originally.


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## R.Williamson

Unfortunately down here it is common to see goats in that condition. It's a pet peeve of mine because they will go on about how parasite resistant a goat is but then they have also never wormed it or checked to see if it needed it. His pic tells a lot in that department. The thing is he actually was fairly resistant. I wormed him 2 times ever. When I first got him and when I first bought him back. So long as he was bolused and had his minerals it was never an issue.


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## R.Williamson

He was stunted when I first got him originally with a bad case of Bottle jaw. The girl was trying but had no clue so she offered him to me and well... he came home with me.


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## toth boer goats

Poor dude.


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## Moers kiko boars

You did a good job with him!


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## R.Williamson

Ty


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## R.Williamson

Well, I figured I would post some updated pics today. Be brutal you know I appreciate it. LoL the stand pics are in my catch all area where all the extra buckets etc end up.


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## CountyLineAcres

He’s growing nicely! For him, the major points I’d want to add to him would be... 
- longer body
- bigger bone
- straighter rear legs
- more rear muscling and twist
- more head and horn curvature

He has definitely improved from last time we saw him. You can tell he’s put a lot more bulk on. What’s his weight now?


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## R.Williamson

100lbs using the weight tape method. I swear he weighs more though. I have got to get a scale to put him on. The human scale we have will not go up high enough for both him and my son to be on the scale lol. He was shaved literally from his nose to the tips of his toes last month. Everything you see is what is there no hair buffing.For what it is worth I did a horrible clip job 
Thank you for the input I do appreciate it.


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## CountyLineAcres

Lol well hopefully you’ll find a scale! They can be invaluable.

I’m not into fluffing them either. They either have it or they don’t! Doesn’t help the breed to mimic big bone or huge booties.


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## R.Williamson

CountyLineAcres said:


> He's growing nicely! For him, the major points I'd want to add to him would be...
> - longer body
> - bigger bone
> - straighter rear legs
> - more rear muscling and twist
> - more head and horn curvature
> 
> He has definitely improved from last time we saw him. You can tell he's put a lot more bulk on. What's his weight now?


At the risk of sounding really dumb can you explain twist to me? I have tried looking it up but do not actually understand it


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## CountyLineAcres

Of course! No question is a dumb one if you're trying to learn.

I'm going to show pictures because I learn visually lol. It goes from below the tail to where the legs part. A goat with a deep twist has more leg muscling than a goat with a shorter twist. It's very desirable for a meaty animal.

Here's an example of a nice, deep twist. This is our boy Z's booty - NO fluff here.










Here's a nice twist on a week old buckling of ours in Feb.










Now, for comparison, this is a month old buckling from 4 years ago that doesn't have much of a twist.


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## R.Williamson

Ahh ok I got ya. Thanks.


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## toth boer goats

Very good advice given, cannot add more.


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## R.Williamson




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## R.Williamson

I just wanted to say thanks for humoring my million and one pics lol. It is fun to look back at his pics start to current times.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hes a nice buckling!


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## R.Williamson

Thank you


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## R.Williamson

This will possibly be my last post about this buck. He went to his new home today and I have a feeling he will thoroughly enjoy it.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hes a happy boy! You did the right thing. And hes with.a friend. You will aee him.again.


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## R.Williamson

Yes,indeed. I will be getting fairly regular updates on him as well. I also have some breeding rights with him should I choose to use them.


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## Moers kiko boars

Thats a smart thing.


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## R.Williamson

Thought I would add a few more pics of this fellow's dear old Dad. We are still working his weight back up as he had a run in with Barberpole and mites this year


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## R.Williamson




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## Michaela Van Mecl

R.Williamson said:


> Well i clipped Spade today. LOL It is not a good clip but I think he is improving.It is just really hard to get good ,solid pics at the moment. I know these do not help on conformation just figured I would post an update on him.
> View attachment 183453
> View attachment 183455
> View attachment 183457
> View attachment 183459


WOW! Amazing what a difference a good clipping makes. He looks gorgeous. Nice testicle development also =)


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## R.Williamson

Michaela Van Mecl said:


> WOW! Amazing what a difference a good clipping makes. He looks gorgeous. Nice testicle development also =)


Ty


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## Moers kiko boars

He is trying so.hard for some doe to pay attention to him..:heehee:. He's showing us ALL his moves! Very.nice Buck!


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## toth boer goats

Nice.


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## R.Williamson

Thank you. LOL he is a goober but I get a kick out of him. Working on getting him sold. I am working to cut back to one buck here. Unfortunately for Beef here he did not win that lotto. The big thing that has made me go back and forth on him are his feet. They are soo freaking good! They very rarely need a trim. I wish my others were even half as good in that regard. He has his bad points, no goat is perfect. He also has so many good ones though. Makes the decision hard. He had some very nice kids this year for me. He is still needing some conditioning but he is putting his weight back on. I will be running another Fecal soon but so far his eyes have been fine and he is gaining his weight back. He has two circles on each side which tand ut like a sore thumb. He has been treated for lice and mites. Treated for ring worm. Those two spots are on opposite sides. When he is standing around bored you will see him digging them with his horn tips.


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## Moers kiko boars

That would not be and easy decision. Good luck. I'm grateful its not me!


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## R.Williamson

Lol it definitely is not an easy decision. This fellow has got the most amazing feet! Yeah.. I know it sounds weird. His feet are just great. . rarely ever need a trim. They wear away beautifully.
He is 2 yrs old atm. I need to make more space though so one of the boys has t go. I am choosing to keep Ranger. They both have totally different faults and strengths. It's why I picked the two of them. Ranger should be able to clean up any flaws that may come from Beef and Vice versa. Sounds insane but so far it has been working for me. IT is going to be really weird only having a single buck again.


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## R.Williamson

Well, Beef has moved on to much larger and much greener pastures. His new owner picked him up this morning and was thrilled with him. Hehe he was a bit bigger than was expected and his new owner loved it! He put some weight on this week being solo with Xima.


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## R.Williamson




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## Moers kiko boars

Well I hope he is happy at his new home. Hes a beautiful buck.


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## toth boer goats

Congrats on getting him a new home.


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## R.Williamson

Old news but Beefy boy came home lol and was resold. Here he is just before I sold him. ( Yes, I am essentialy necroing my own thread LOL)










Also I figured I would give an updated photo of his boy Spade, the original kid in the post ( his son).
I got him back last year extremely stunted and under weight. It has taken a fat minute to get him to start looking decent. I doubt he will ever grow to his full potential. He is now 2 yrs old and a big baby. ( Yes, the


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## Ok deer

I love them!


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## Doe C Doe boers!

Gorgeous bucks 😍. I’m glad you got them back and they are getting proper care!


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## R.Williamson

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> Gorgeous bucks 😍. I’m glad you got them back and they are getting proper care!


Heh Beef is living the high life at the home he has now. Spade will be visiting a friend of mine for a couple of months. He is setup on joint ownership between us. He is stunted as sin but he throws some very nice kids. So far his kids have all grown like weeds and not needed Cocci treatments or worming. They stay slick and shiny, with good Famancha. *Knock on wood* .


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## Moers kiko boars

I agree, just because he is stunted,doesnt mean his genetics are bad. I cant wait to see what he gives you this year.


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## toth boer goats

Nice.


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## R.Williamson

Moers kiko boars said:


> I agree, just because he is stunted,doesnt mean his genetics are bad. I cant wait to see what he gives you this year.


Same here.


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## Boer Mama

He’s a very handsome fellow- I love the black w/ tan coloring 😍


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