# chaffhaye - pulling kids - acid stomach - alfalfa



## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

This is more of a post for reference and hopefully I won't get hung by the chaffhaye fans.

I started giving my girls chaffhaye 6 weeks before kidding because I was feeding CRP grass and wanted the extra calcium. I figured it was better than the pellets. I didn't have alfalfa bales at the time (stinking drought).

Does started to kid and I noticed weak contractions with the first few. So ... once I had no ligs I gave 30cc CMPK and that didn't help.

I've had 5 girls kid and have had to pull kids on 3. All positioned wrong. Most years I don't have to pull and if I do it's usually just 1 doe/year.

Visited my goat vet today and brought up chaffhaye and how I am having to pull kids this year. Vet said chaffhaye doesn't have enough calcium as straight alfalfa. Trying to recall .... I believe she said it has the calories just not the nutrients. 

Just passing on what vet said. I have 9 more girls to kid and am giving them bales of alfalfa now. I should see improvement with these girls.

So now -- the other side to this. I started to introduce alfalfa into the girls diets. A few days ago I gave a bit more as I have been increasing amounts every day. My foundation doe, Pansy, who is 8 years old came down with the runs, off feed, off by herself, and glazed eyes. Lil Ms Piggy.

I gave her everything but the kitchen sink. I don't live with my goats and I didn't want to say .... wish I had. It was also her 4 week workup date before kidding.

She got - 
Temp 101.9
2cc ivomec plus
4tsp GI Soother
2cc Vit B complex (sq) (note I should of given 2-4 cc more)
1 Tbsp Pepto
25cc CMPK
5cc sel/e
5cc probios
4.5cc nuflor (had wet cough)

Today (not given all at once but during the day)
She lived and hasn't aborted yet
A little better (munched on kelp and moved around more) 
Saw her pee just a lil bit
Off feed still
Would allow other does around her - not so much alone
Some glazed look at times but better
Did not see a bowl movement
Temp 101.2
5cc probios
8cc vitb Complex orally / 2.5 cc sq
4 tsp GI Soother
2 tsp Better Daze
2 squirts echinechea (spelling ?)
2 oz nutridrench
1 oz Pepto
1/2 cc banamine

She has been vacinated against CD&T and Pasturella. Do have CD but decided not to give to her. Will rethink that after I see her tomorrow.

Poor girl .... I'm trying to fight acid gut and polio as a result. She probably has a PH inbalance to boot with the acid gut; Pepto to coat stomach and banamine for swelling of gut. 

Will see what tomorrow brings but hopefully she will pull through and I'll get some babies.

PS - my med cabinet is better equipped than most vets. Don't wait till you need something. And I group my meds by treatment and within that container I have a sheet of paper for illness types, meds, and dosages. For instance, I have a container for stomach issues, immune issues, lung, general first aid, parasite, pain, ......

Will continue to post so that others might find this useful. 
Note to self - get some mylanta or something similar to coat stomach.


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## Jigglypuff598 (Jan 9, 2013)

I feed chaffhaye and haven't had any problems with my does kidding so far but I will research the calcium content cause now I'm curious cause I was told by the lady that first convinced me to feed it that it was more nutrient dense than regular alfalfa. Are you in a drought area? I know lots of people have been having strange things happening with their animals in those areas and the vets have been saying it was cause of the drought.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Never an issue here. The Calcium in Chaff hay is more available. Maybe she needed more Phospherus to counter it.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

No hanging here!
I feed Chaffhaye & had my first ever goat kiddings this year. 1st one was a single, went smooth as could be. Baby was literally up & drinking on her own within 2 minutes!

2nd was Twins, first was a HUGE boy, he came out front legs first & I had to go in to help when his huge head & shoulders were stuck. 2nd was a tiny girl but both were healthy as could be!

All 3 babies have been perfect! Not even the tiniest of issues!

I did some quick research & found the following Calcium numbers

Chaffhaye is .7 -1.6% Alf Pellets are 1.28-1.55% & Alf Hay is 1-2%

They seem pretty even. Is there something else that might be the culprit? Selenium? Copper?

I hope things go better!!


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I bet the real problem is changing the hay in pregnancy. Unless there is a physical need for a change that you see I wouldn't change a does feed during pregnancy. There is also probably something else going on as well. Maybe a water change, mineral change(even if your using the same sometimes they change something but don't tell you) you name it.


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

No hanging from me either. I only know I've had no problems here. My Baileys came to me pregnant and she was switched to chaffhaye upon arrival. No problems kidding last week and have seen no issues after.

I'm sorry you've been having difficulties with your kiddings and I hope you figure out what is going on.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would think that it would depend on where the chaffhaye is coming from. Certainly there are no guarantees that it will be the same mineral contents anywhere in the country. if she had chaffhaye that happened to be that .7 and her alfalfa has always been around 2, then that is a big difference.

I'm sorry you are having so many problems. I hope it all gets worked out for you.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We've never fed chaffhaye just straight 3rd cut.
One yr 4 out of 7 does the first kid had one or both front legs tucked.
I assumed it was minerals. Switched to higher copper content.
All but one was smooth sailing.
This season one FF with first kid a leg back & one breech in another.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

thanks everyone ....
we'll know in a few months how the remaining girls do from switching to straight alfalfa.

Pansy update -
today she was up and came to say hi with the other goats.
doesn't want to stand much
didn't go after the BOSS that much. Just nibbled
loves her animal crackers .... lol
didn't go after the grass or alfalfa
didn't see her pee or poop
felt baby kick - yippie

Today's treatment included
1 tsp GI Soother
1 tsp Better Daze
2 oz NutriDrench
2 squirts echinechea/golden seal
5cc probios
3 cc VitB orally and 3 cc Vitb SQ
2cc CD&T SQ

I think she is slowly getting better each day but I don't like not seeing her eat. Tomorrow's plan includes feeding some bran mush and yogurt full or probios.

Good News *****
The doe I got from Destree that had a C-Section last year because of a BIG single buck / she got sono'd and has 2+ kids. Fingers crossed they are all about the same size.

TTYL Tmmr


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

In reading posts about calcium, my first thought was the same as Karens. To generalize is one thing, but we have to remember where our source of hay is grown may be very different.
Hope she keeps getting better for you!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Changed to adding Chaffhaye mid pregnancy and never had a problem. The calcium in Chaffhaye is more bio available because of the innoculant that starts to break it down. I had to stop feeding it because of the price, but I will go back to it as soon as the $$$$ situation gets better. I am back to alfalfa pellets, but all kids were born big and healthy, tons of milk and veyr happy goats. That stuff is like crack to my goats!

Chaffhaye is straight alfalfa, it has had an innoculant added and allowed to ferment so the nutrients are more readily available to the animal eating it.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

Looks like this is the end of the thread for Pansy ....

Pulled up and right away I knew I had my girl back

She got ~ 2oz of yogurt today and that's it. She ate some BOSS and grass/alfalfa. Saw her drink and poop berries. Hoping I don't get a relapse from her.

Now 4 weeks to kidding. Was hoping for trips but am thinking twins now. Poop!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I didnt see the kitchen sink in the list so that is good but I also didnt see CD Antitoxin and thiamine I would give her CD Antitoxin and Thiamine, CD&T is a toxoid..and is preventive and CD Antitoxin is treatment ..anytime the gut shuts down..these two can make a huge difference in her recovery...: )


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi Cathy,
All great comments -

I had C&D Antitoxin but held off thinking it wasn't the cause. Plus she was last given CD&T a year ago. My goat vet agreed to my treatment plan so I felt pretty good about waiting. But if she had gotten worse at anytime I would of given her the CD SQ followed by a dose orally.

Each day I did see improvement with her even if I did want her to recover faster ... 

My VitB is a complex and has 100% B1 (thiamine). The first day I should of given her 4cc+ SQ but I only gave 2cc orally. After the first day she was getting 9cc or so / day. Some SQ and some orally.

She will be closely monitored for the next few days but I hope we are out of the woods. I will continue giving her yogurt throughout the weekend.

Can't loose this girl - she is a foundation doe and there isn't too many MCH/PGCH Green Gate Cinderella's Prince ++*S 'E' producing does anymore. I think 1.

Huggs everyone

Thanks and I hope this ends Pansy's story about being a PIG


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