# Help Please...White muscle disease...suggestions to help him



## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Hello, I went to the vet yesterday and found out my little 2 week old baby goat has white muscle disease and a swollen leg. HELP! What can I do to help him? The vet said lots of love and attention (he gets this with me and my 4 girls) and to do some physical therapy, like leg moving which seems painful. HE did receive a selenium shot the second say I had him at about 5 days old. But he was taken away from his momma way too early. Not my choice, the lady I bought him and another baby goat was a puppy mill so to speak. I believe I saved these two, she wouldn't have gotten medical attention, that's another story. So please help me if you can. I will do whatever it takes to help this little guy, he has a big heart and lots of love to give and receive.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What did the vet tell you to do?


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

The vet said lots of love and attention (he gets this with me and my 4 girls) and to do some physical therapy, like leg moving which seems painful


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I've never dealt with white muscle disease, but I pulled this from the Tennessee Meat Goats site http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/healthproblemsKids06.html

_Selenium Deficiency (aka White Muscle Disease) can cause weak rear legs in newborn and young kids and can keep the kid from swallowing. Walking on one's pasterns can also be a sign of selenium deficiency. Your county extension service agent or feed company nutritionist should be able to tell you if you are in a selenium-deficient area. Prescription BoSe should be injected into newborns and young kids in selenium-deficient areas at a dosage rate of 1/2 cc given IM. Dosage for adult dams is 2-1/2 cc's, also given IM. Do not use MuSe; it is too strong for goats. BoSe is an injectable combination of selenium and Vitamin E.

_Best wishes to you and your little man!_

_


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I've had good luck with injectable Vitamin A-D-E. I bought it at PBS. When the Bo-Se was given, did the goat kid also get an oral dose of vitamin E? ( cut open a gel cap. It boosts the selenium). You could probably give another dose of Bo-Se if he hasn't had any in over a week.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Bose includes vitamin e... But a gel tablet a day won't hurt. He needs another dose of Bose in my opinion.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Are you sure it isn't joint ill? Check the umbilical cord area is it hot/swollen ect?

If the kid already had a selenium shot, seems odd the kid would have white muscle disease?
How did the vet come to the conclusion of white muscle disease?

Swollen leg also can mean he was injured. How is the kid acting otherwise, normal or lethargic?

What is the kids temp?


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I didn't test his temp, sorry never did that before. Just the vet did last time, not this time. It was 101.2 I think. The umbilical cord is black doesnt look red or anything. His underside does not hurt, just his hind legs are stiff looking. I am sorry I am not sure I can trust this vet, he was really quick with me trying to get out of the door, which was odd and not good in front of myself and my two kids. He was not injured while with me, I got him at 4 days old. The vet said he has white muscle disease, just by him feeling his body really. And he said he has swollen joint by feeling it, it is bigger than the other leg. I know I am not a farmer, but I am a huge animal lover and I am trying to teach my girls the old way so to speak. I have always wanted to live on a farm and now that I am older my family and I live on 20 acres and are trying to be more self sufficient. Please no haters. I love all of my animals

I have been praying every night for my baby and this morning when I got up, he was up walking around and believe it or not, jumping and trying to play with the other older goat. I was so happy I almost cried. He is stiff and sore, but he is in good spirits and has a huge heart! His poops are harder, but still not black pellets like the other one. Thank you to everyone who is helping me and giving me suggestions, I really do appreciate it! I will do anything for these little guys.

I asked my vet about another selenium shot but he said its too early and I should keep giving him the sulfatrim pediatric suspension medicine two times a day with .5ml each time. I read its for fighting bacteria. I also read it would hurt him if I gave him another shot. But some say yes and some say no...He is doing better every day but I dont want him to be in pain for the rest of his life.

Thanks guys!


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

No just a shot of the selenium. I am worried I can be doing more for him. But I dont want to overdose him either. Its been over a week now since his shot. I was at the vet yesterday and he said not to get another one yet. I should come in in 3 weeks to get his next shots including another selenium shot...



Goats Rock said:


> I've had good luck with injectable Vitamin A-D-E. I bought it at PBS. When the Bo-Se was given, did the goat kid also get an oral dose of vitamin E? ( cut open a gel cap. It boosts the selenium). You could probably give another dose of Bo-Se if he hasn't had any in over a week.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I was thinking joint ill too but if he doesn't have a temp and he's already on sulfatrim, that would clear that up, wouldn't it?

It just makes absolutely no sense to me why he would say he has white muscle disease and then turn around and refuse Bose. 

Are you sure it was only selenium he was given at birth? No e? So he's never had a Bose shot?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If you can upload some pictures of his legs and how he stands that might help.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I am confused, should I get some selenium gels and try that on him? I dont want to overdose him or give him something that will make him worse or sick. At birth I have no idea what he was given, I will not talk to the lady I bought them from, she is crazy! She didnt care that they were sick she just said do you want to bring them back and get two other ones? NO! I didn't, I just wanted to ask her what she did or didnt do to them! 

The vet said no more shots until another 2-3 weeks...because he just had one shot 2 weeks ago when I first got him I took him in because he was sick. He got a selenium shot, but that was it from my vet. Not sure what a Bose shot is?

Thanks


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I will get some pictures when he is up again, he sleeps and lays down a lot and I dont want to bother him now.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Bose is selenium and e in a shot form. I would give him the paste but that's just me.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I couldn't do a shot, so I will go with the paste or gel, but will this hurt him if he doesn't need it?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

She was talking about vitamin e gel from the inside of a gel capsule, it doesn't have selenium in it and he needs the selenium so you'll need to do the paste. It's hard for us to know if he actually has white muscle disease or if it's something else without seeing him.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Until you get the selenium gel, just give him the oil from a vitamin E pill.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I am sorry to be so bothersome, but I am worried about him. I am going to tractor supply later to get some selenium for him, just dont want to give him anything that will hurt him.

Here is what I see...He walks really stiff...when I first got him he couldn't even walk or stand up and cracked when I picked him up to help him get up. Now today even he gets up on his own with out help and was even trying to play with the other one and head butt him he was even kind of jumping...so he is getting better, but I still worry about him not running around like the other one. He is just really stiff and one of his back legs is bigger than the other one. How could I be certain he has white muscle disease? Would it hurt if I gave him something for that then it wasn't what the problem was? Basically he is just really really stiff.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Someone just asked me why give them selenium if the dr didnt tell me to give them that? Good question I guess but the dr sucks!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/healthproblemsKids06.html

Scroll down to the bottom and read through e coli and white muscle disease. Those two are what I suspect based off of the symptoms you describe.

Nearly all of us give additional selenium supplements because it's vital to goats and is deficient in most soils. Most veterinarians don't know much if anything about goats so that's why a lot of us do things without their input. But it's up to you to make those decisions.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Usually wmd doesn't cause swelling. He may have something else going on also. Is the swollen leg hot or warmer than the other?

I would give him a small dose of Selenium/Vit e gel. That stuff is out of the system in 24 hours, so it is reasonably safe for him.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Here are some pictures of my little guy, sorry they are upside down ;(


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Very cute.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hes a doll....

I agree with giving an extra Vit e gel cap...just snip one end and squeeze into his mouth. 

WMD should not cause swollen joints..Joint ill does...but his temp was good the last time it was taken...I would go ahead and take that again...just get a digital thermometer , put a little vasaline on and insert just a small bit...101.5-103.5 is normal temp range...
feel that swollen joint...what do you feel? fluid or hard..hot or normal?? the antibiotic the vet gave maybe helping with it..but more info would be good.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks I will get him some Vitamin E I have some selenium coming from Amazon in a few days, our TS didn't supply any. I will get a thermometer as well. The antibiotic is just sulfatrim pediatric suspension...

Would this one work?
http://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-V...003050&sr=1-2&keywords=vitamin+e+gel+capsules


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yup, that would work but you might be able to find it cheaper at walgreens/walmart


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree,

I flipped your pics upright. I didn't want to stand on my head to look at them, LOL.  :cow::thumb:

He is so cute.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

WOW your good, thank you so much for doing that! He looks much better now!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

He looks skinny too, how much is he eating and how often is he being fed?


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

He is really skinny compared to my other one. He eats about every 2-3 hours or whenever he shows us he is hungry and he does not eat a lot at each feeding, maybe 1/2 cup to 1 cup at most... He only is bottle fed, he is 2 weeks old now, he does go outside and "try" to eat leaves and such and I do have grains and sweet food available 24/7 for them to eat.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I have some selenium gel coming, hopefully by Monday it will get here. But are these the right vitamin e ones? It has aloe Vera in it...Hopefully those will help bounce him back up...

http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Skin-...6191&sr=1-1&keywords=Vitamin+e+breakable+caps


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't know if this will help or not...but by two weeks he should be drinking more and going at least 4-6 hours between feeding. He needs that time to digest properly so undigested milk isn't sitting and going sour in his stomach. That may be a source of pain for him.


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## rottengoat (Jan 30, 2016)

ran into the same problem you will do fine......with the injections...........:rainbow:


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## rottengoat (Jan 30, 2016)

*heath and wellness*

we just had 2 little does wedsday.........hope they will be ok......little goats are so hard to raise


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

When should goats be eating/drinking on their own? They are eating outside now, hay and old leaves, but they just cant break them down far enough to actually swallow them just chew I guess...I have a pail of water and food out at all times, but they are not interested.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You bottle feed for 8 to 12 weeks.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

If he had BoSe I wouldn't give him another shot. Too much selenium is dangerous also and have never heard of giving a follow up shot a week later. It sounded like there has been some improvement in him by your last posting - hope all is well. It is hard when babies are not feeling well.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Sometimes you have to show a bottle kid how to drink water. I have 2 gal. buckets for the little guys. Try putting warm water in them, letting them suck on your finger and drop your hand into the water. This works best on hungry but not frantic kids. Eventually, they get it.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I wont give him a shot, I bought selenium gel from Amazon...Would this hurt to give to him? I am so confused, some say yes some say no...I dont want to hurt him more...



wndngrvr said:


> If he had BoSe I wouldn't give him another shot. Too much selenium is dangerous also and have never heard of giving a follow up shot a week later. It sounded like there has been some improvement in him by your last posting - hope all is well. It is hard when babies are not feeling well.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Thank you I will try this out tomorrow. Our older one, I am not sure how old he is, she said 9 weeks, but there is no way, he still is bottle fed.



Goats Rock said:


> Sometimes you have to show a bottle kid how to drink water. I have 2 gal. buckets for the little guys. Try putting warm water in them, letting them suck on your finger and drop your hand into the water. This works best on hungry but not frantic kids. Eventually, they get it.


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

Good luck and as I found out last year, most Vets are only dog and cat band-aid machines, it is really hard to find a good vet who understands the digestive system of goats, look up _*Caprinae*_

If it wasn't for this site I can guarantee my 2 little ones would not have made it, also bookmark tn meat goats...tons of free info

good luck, just remember that once they start eating greens and such that they have a rumen that needs to be happy and healthy...burping and farting is good signs

Search your area for a "farm" type vet cows/horses/sheep and goats etc

also goats and sheep are different mostly at what extra minerals are needed

Again good luck and he is very cute :ram:


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

How's he doing?


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Hi! What a kind hearted person you are! I don't have any specific information or help for you, but I wanted to suggest that you go around to one or more feed stores near by. They might know about the selenium situation in your area. With just a little luck you will also find a clerk at one who knows about goats, or find out when they are on duty. The more time goes by, the more I have come to rely on the advice of these good folks. I don't say this just because it's free advice--I find that my animals get better (or sometimes not, in the case of sick chickens) just as well when they help me as when the vet does. They can also help you understand the instructions for administering the selenium etc. You can call your local Ag Extension office as well to find out if the soil where the goat came from is selenium deficient or not, as it sounds like you may be doubting the vet's diagnosis. You probably already know you can get antibiotics at the feed store too, if you feel confident about that.

Also, as he is only 2 weeks old, do you think you at least got good advice from the seller or vet on how much milk or milk replacer he needs & how often?....just a thought.

Sorry if I told you a bunch of stuff you already know--good luck with the kids. You sound like a wonderful person.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Me again--I just noticed I missed 2 pages of posts! I should wear my glasses! Are there any other stores that are just feed stores in your area? I love Tractor Supply, especially for holiday shopping, but an independent store that just specializes in animal feed might be more helpful for you, & have more selection when it comes to other animal supplies like supplements & meds. 

That is one special little goat-is he part La Mancha? Have you had goats before? Is he wethered & if not do you plan on it? I only mention it because you have more choice of methods when they are very young, though right now he is dealing with quite enough stress & pain, poor sweetie. He is such a little darling. I'm sending him lots of encouraging thoughts!


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Oh my goodness you are so sweet! Thank you for saying that. I love all my animals like they are my kids 

I am talking to some other goat lovers/raisers as well and since they have not gone through this before they can't really help me out. That's why I love this site so much. They never used vitamin E or selenium for their goats so they suggested me not to, but I want to do the best for them both.

My vet has his own goats, but was a little harsh on me when I first brought them in and the second time he was in a rush to get out the door, literally. So I wanted a second opinion.

He is eating better and running and playing with his brother. So excited about that. And I appreciate any advice! Thank you again!

Have a wonderful day

Jen



catharina said:


> Hi! What a kind hearted person you are! I don't have any specific information or help for you, but I wanted to suggest that you go around to one or more feed stores near by. They might know about the selenium situation in your area. With just a little luck you will also find a clerk at one who knows about goats, or find out when they are on duty. The more time goes by, the more I have come to rely on the advice of these good folks. I don't say this just because it's free advice--I find that my animals get better (or sometimes not, in the case of sick chickens) just as well when they help me as when the vet does. They can also help you understand the instructions for administering the selenium etc. You can call your local Ag Extension office as well to find out if the soil where the goat came from is selenium deficient or not, as it sounds like you may be doubting the vet's diagnosis. You probably already know you can get antibiotics at the feed store too, if you feel confident about that.
> 
> Also, as he is only 2 weeks old, do you think you at least got good advice from the seller or vet on how much milk or milk replacer he needs & how often?....just a thought.
> 
> Sorry if I told you a bunch of stuff you already know--good luck with the kids. You sound like a wonderful person.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

He is showing much improvements! He is running around playing with his brother and eating better. He does occasionally get mothers milk from a goat farmer and I think that is helping! He does however still have a limp with his back legs and his back leg is a little enlarged and bigger than the other one. That worries me. I am not sure the vet was right with the diagnosis WMD, but I am not a vet and these are my first goats. I do appreciate everyone with their help and suggestions! Thank you so much!

Jen



deerbunnyfarm said:


> How's he doing?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing better.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Okay, I just read all of this so I do not think you need much more advice. Sounds like what you have done is working. We have had a problem with kids that usually hits around 2 weeks. So many goat ailments have such similar symptoms that diagnoses can be difficult. I was told they would only know post-mortem and I was not about to let one die just to have a necropsy done! It does sound a lot like what you have gone through.

Whatever it is that we have responds to Penicillin very well. A few of them get swollen joints and stiffen up a bit. After 5 days of antibiotics we let them be and sometimes it takes quite a while for the limping to stop. I am happy that we had no losses this year. We had one who favored his hind legs for over a week though he would run and play with the herd. We had to leave for 5 days and made the decision to let "nature take its course." He was fine when we got home.:stars:

I have heard that WMD is not well treated and must be prevented with selenium in the mom and then given to the kids. I do not use Bose but my girls get selenium when pregnant and the kids all get paste from birth. I have not had any problems associated with selenium deficiency since we started this.

I can see why that adorable little guy has stolen your heart. I hope he continues to improve.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

I have not given him any selenium yet, not sure how much to give or if its even necessary? I do have 2 huge pumps full of it it though ready to use if needed/necessary. He seems to get better every day, my concern now is that he limps on his back legs when running, but does not go down when you pet his back or crack when you pick him up. I do hope we are over the hump and he continues to get better. 

Again I thank everyone for their advice and much needed support! you all are amazing! Thank you again!

Jen


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

OK, its me, back again...My baby was doing great until yesterday. He was running around playing but now as of yesterday he started limping on his front leg. It was his hind leg before but now its his front right leg. I felt them and they are not warm or hard on either side. I am sorry I just worry about my little guy. It is snowing out again today (yes its spring) but its snowing here, not sure if that is a factor or not. I do have them inside my house in my "mudroom" with a space heater to keep them warm. I also do have a bottle of selenium and vitamin e, but not sure if that will help. 

Any more suggestions to help ez my mind?

Thank you again!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is he still on antibiotics? I would treat him for joint ill.


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

He was on sulfatrim pediatric suspension but now is off, i am wondering if I should put him back on it? It was 5ml 2x per day


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would do another 10 days.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would get baytril or nuflor...sorry he is limping again...Joint ill is stubborn to kill...need 10 full days of a strong antibiotic...to support the rumen function, give probiotics 3-4 hours after antibiotic...I would also give 1/2 garlic clove daily for immune support, just crush it and feed it that way or hide in a treat...you can mince it fine and mix with water to drench as well


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree with the others.

But also, do you think maybe he got injured by any chance? Any swelling or reaction feeling his leg, hoof or shoulder area?


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

I'm sorry that little cutie isn't better yet! Nice of you to keep the babies indoors. You're lucky you have a mud room. I have to put them in the bathtub & shut the shower doors! If your local goat friends don't supplement with selenium & their goats are fine, maybe that would cast doubt on the WMD unless he was from another area? I have never found a free choice loose mineral supplement that my goats would consume, but they LOVE their salt mineral blocks! You might have to look pretty hard for the one made specifically for goats but that is the only kind I would buy. No other livestock has nearly the same requirements as goats do. With the block he won't overdose, & often animals know what they need instinctively. Plus, they just love having a salt lick, & we love spoiling them, don't we? Good luck-it's so hard when our "babies" are sick!


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## EvergreenFarm (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the help and much needed support! He was doing so good until last night he is badly limping on his front right leg now. I cant believe all this stuff is happening to him. I started him back on the sulfatrim pediatric suspension as of this morning, but I am wondering if I should or could give him the selenium with vitamin E together? Or would that be too much? he is loving the sun this mornign just relaxing, but he seems to really be hurting with the front leg this time.

Sorry everyone for all the questions, but I sure appreciate all the help and support!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Give him a pea size amount of the selenium E gel.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with that.


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