# Learning to critique pygmy goats :D



## janecb

Since pygmies aren't exactly meat goats, but aren't dairy goats either, a thread for learning to critique pygmies seems in order (especially since we somehow end up flooding all other critique threads...)

So if you want to learn about critiquing pygmy goats, have pygmy goats you want critiqued, or just want to see adorable pictures of adorable goats, feel free to join in 

Some resources you can use to start out:

Link to NPGA breed standard 

 Link to NPGA accepted colors 

 Buck and doe scorecard and faulting sheet 

NPGA wether scorecard, as well as some commonly used reasons 

The reasons below as well (some may make more sense once we get enough pictures going with differences between good and bad, etc.):

*GENERAL APPEARANCE:*
More balance, smoothly blended, well balanced
More correct proportions, cobby compact
More correct breed-specific markings
More correct coat, less masculine coat, having a straighter coat, more correct coat length
Displaying a more pleasing expression, more alert, more animation 
More alert upright head carriage
More correct head, medium short head, more dish in the profile, more pleasing pygmy type head, shorter broader muzzle, more muscling/width in the jaw, more width between the eyes
More correct set to the ears

*STRUCTURE*
More functional or balanced body parts
Showing more width in the chest, barrel broad, barrel deep, greater spring of rib, back strong, level topline, rump medium long, rump medium slope, fore and hindquarters well angulated, well aligned set to the legs, strong legs, straighter legs, well muscled throughout
Gait smooth and effortless

*HEALTH and CONDITION*
Free of disease, displaying vigor
Free of parasites, having clean skin and coat
Displaying good flesh and muscle
More correct show conditioning, being over conditioned or under conditioned

The following is for wethers only, and not exactly applicable with pictures. It's still interesting to know though ->

*BEHAVIOR*
More friendly, alert, responsible, trusting, confident, cooperative
More desirable behavior
More tractability, showability


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Good idea, janecb!  Hopefully you get lots of goats  I really like how you put all the information out first


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## bbpygmy

11 month old doe


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## PygmyMom

Two year old FF


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## bbpygmy

Pros: Looks to have good muscling
-good leg angulation
-stands on good legs and feet

Cons: random white
I would like to see heavier bone
I would like to see more smoothness of blending from the neck into the shoulders
Looks like maybe the loin is arched??
ear set looks weird 
I would like to see a more dished profile 
I would like to see a shorter,wider muzzle
I would like to more depth increasing from the heart girth back into the flank
It looks like she could use more width, but hard to tell from picture (could you post a front and rear view?)


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## janecb

bbpygmy said:


> 11 month old doe
> View attachment 89311


Pros:

- Nice rear angulation 
- strong, heavy bone
- straight front legs
- nice upright head carraige and alert animated expression
- nice sort dish to the muzzle
- nice width between the hocks and forelegs; I suspect she walks with a lot of width as well
- nice blending of the neck into the shoulders
- very balanced
- I love her color 

Cons:

- I'd like to see a more level topline in the chine and loin
- The stifles look to be jutting out slightly - maybe they should be held tighter to the barrel? 
- more development in the sternum and brisket area
- more level cannons - not sure how to explain this. Her rear cannons look a little bit long compared to her front cannons
- stronger pasterns

Can I steal her???


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Pros:
> 
> - Nice rear angulation
> 
> - strong, heavy bone
> 
> - straight front legs
> 
> - nice upright head carraige and alert animated expression
> 
> - nice sort dish to the muzzle
> 
> - nice width between the hocks and forelegs; I suspect she walks with a lot of width as well
> 
> - nice blending of the neck into the shoulders
> 
> - very balanced
> 
> - I love her color
> 
> Cons:
> 
> - I'd like to see a more level topline in the chine and loin
> 
> - The stifles look to be jutting out slightly - maybe they should be held tighter to the barrel?
> 
> - more development in the sternum and brisket area
> 
> - more level cannons - not sure how to explain this. Her rear cannons look a little bit long compared to her front cannons
> 
> - stronger pasterns
> 
> Can I steal her???


Lol this is Breakneck Creek Critters Maple. She has 1 Jr/Res. Grand and 1 Res. Jr. Win . She looks weird cause she's going through a growth spurt and she's slightly hunched up, but I still really like her ️ oh and about the stifle thing, for some reason I have some goats with really high stifles so they look weird lol


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## bbpygmy

I'll see if I can find more pictures of her.


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## bbpygmy

Here's her when she got Res. Jr. At 6 months old!


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## bbpygmy

Her as a kid and yes, she was a bottle baby ️


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## bbpygmy

Her at 9 months old.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

She has the cutest face!!  Adorable


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## janecb

I'm jealous...I must have the slowest growing goats in the country. My baby doe at six months was nowhere near as developed. She's the brownish-orange fluffy creature in the front. And no, she isn't selenium deficient, copper deficient, or dying of worms or coccidiosis. I have treated numerous times for all of those things. All of my goats seem to enjoy turning brown and fluffy at 5-6 months. 

The hay feeder is on the ground because the brat in the background looking at the camera and making her chine look awful was jumping on to it and then out of the pens at the show.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I'm jealous...I must have the slowest growing goats in the country. My baby doe at six months was nowhere near as developed. She's the brownish-orange fluffy creature in the front. And no, she isn't selenium deficient, copper deficient, or dying of worms or coccidiosis. I have treated numerous times for all of those things. All of my goats seem to enjoy turning brown and fluffy at 5-6 months.
> 
> The hay feeder is on the ground because the brat in the background looking at the camera and making her chine look awful was jumping on to it and then out of the pens at the show.


Lol the whirlwind line is very slow growing, I know you have a lot of whirlwind in your herd. Maple comes from Saltbox and Our Oak Haven lines, which are faster growing lines.


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## bbpygmy

Here's one of my does, B & B Pygmies Miracle who is out of a Saltbox doe and a buck with lots of Our Oak Haven lines. She is 2 weeks old in this pic. You can see she is the same body style as Maple.


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## hunterrandolph9

janecb said:


> I'm jealous...I must have the slowest growing goats in the country. My baby doe at six months was nowhere near as developed. She's the brownish-orange fluffy creature in the front. And no, she isn't selenium deficient, copper deficient, or dying of worms or coccidiosis. I have treated numerous times for all of those things. All of my goats seem to enjoy turning brown and fluffy at 5-6 months.
> 
> The hay feeder is on the ground because the brat in the background looking at the camera and making her chine look awful was jumping on to it and then out of the pens at the show.


Same here. Her is a pic of my almost year old doe. Same thing with fur but wormed regularly and fed minerals


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## hunterrandolph9

bbpygmy said:


> Lol the whirlwind line is very slow growing, I know you have a lot of whirlwind in your herd. Maple comes from Saltbox and Our Oak Haven lines, which are faster growing lines.


I really don't understand how you get your goats to be so perfect


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## bbpygmy

hunterrandolph9 said:


> Same here. Her is a pic of my almost year old doe. Same thing with fur but wormed regularly and fed minerals


you have to give more than minerals... It helps, but not enough. Also what kind of mineral are you using? It should have at lease 1400ppm of copper. We copper bolus every 6 months or as needed and give Bo-Se every month to goats 0-18 months of age and then every 6 months when they are 18 months or older.


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## bbpygmy

Do you have a picture of her tail?


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## janecb

She is mostly whirlwind now that I think about it... I had a baby doe a while ago who just wouldn't grow. She was tiny at a year and a half - then one day I went out there and she had caught up. It's frustrating to show junior does when they aren't as developed as others, but once they grow up they do much better. As for copper, we aren't very deficient, but I'm going to try bolusing. I have fed minerals in the past, and copper deficiency hasn't been a problem, but I'm thinking it may help a little bit to bolus. 

I have another little guy (the wether in my profile) who is almost 100% whirlwind in all but name. The first picture is him at six and a half months old, and the second is him at a year. 

Any thoughts on him? I know he's a skinny, narrow little prick, but I'm curious about what others think  (He's around for my showmanship and when new kids haven't worked with their goats enough for their showmanship either)


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> She is mostly whirlwind now that I think about it... I had a baby doe a while ago who just wouldn't grow. She was tiny at a year and a half - then one day I went out there and she had caught up. It's frustrating to show junior does when they aren't as developed as others, but once they grow up they do much better. As for copper, we aren't very deficient, but I'm going to try bolusing. I have fed minerals in the past, and copper deficiency hasn't been a problem, but I'm thinking it may help a little bit to bolus.
> 
> I have another little guy (the wether in my profile) who is almost 100% whirlwind in all but name. The first picture is him at six and a half months old, and the second is him at a year.
> 
> Any thoughts on him? I know he's a skinny, narrow little prick, but I'm curious about what others think  (He's around for my showmanship and when new kids haven't worked with their goats enough for their showmanship either)


He looks a lot better now than he did 

Pros: nice heavy bone 
Nice topline 
Looks like he's got a little bit of width 
Looks like he has tight shoulders? 
Looks like his stifles are held tight

Cons: lacks depth
Looks like he doesn't like to hold his head up 
Lacks muscling from the neck into the shoulders?
Lacks smoothness of blending from the neck into the shoulders
Short bodied 
Lacks rear leg angulation? 
Would like to see a more forward extension to the sternum


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## janecb

His shiny white leg distracts from his angulation. I swear that white hair grows in thicker... I hadn't given him a hair cut in the rear, but he has decent angulation. Not the best, but not awful. He's definitely guilty of not holding his head up. How is he supposed to graze for leaves with his head out of the dirt?! The only reason he's ever won his class is due to the 75 points that are NOT conformation


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## bbpygmy

Lol here's one of my 11 month old does


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## bbpygmy

Oh! Janecb did you get your MEMO yet? ️ I got mine today!


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## janecb

I got it last week - the Spring issue with the mamma and baby goat on the cover, correct? I can never keep up with them... 

But back to the matter at hand ~~

Pros:

- ADORABLE head - alert, animated expression, and feminine pygmy type head
- nice depth in the barrel and flank
- nice rear leg angulation and attachment (nice tight stifles)
- well muscled and smoothly blended
- nice extension of the sternum
- picturesque pygmy appearance: short, cobby, and compact 

Cons: 

- I'd like to see *slightly* stronger bone, especially in the legs
- Needs a bit more levelness in the loin and a more gradual slope to the rump
- More width between the hocks
- more straight front legs 
- more proportion in length of leg to length of body


She's adorable. I want to steal that head and put it on all of my does!


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I got it last week - the Spring issue with the mamma and baby goat on the cover, correct? I can never keep up with them...
> 
> But back to the matter at hand ~~
> 
> Pros:
> 
> - ADORABLE head - alert, animated expression, and feminine pygmy type head
> 
> - nice depth in the barrel and flank
> 
> - nice rear leg angulation and attachment (nice tight stifles)
> 
> - well muscled and smoothly blended
> 
> - nice extension of the sternum
> 
> - picturesque pygmy appearance: short, cobby, and compact
> 
> Cons:
> 
> - I'd like to see *slightly* stronger bone, especially in the legs
> 
> - Needs a bit more levelness in the loin and a more gradual slope to the rump
> 
> - More width between the hocks
> 
> - more straight front legs
> 
> - more proportion in length of leg to length of body
> 
> She's adorable. I want to steal that head and put it on all of my does!


Lol she is out of the 2014 runner-up national champion doe PGCH Old Orchard Wish!! ️


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## bbpygmy

View attachment 89416

Here's an updated picture of her, her legs look weird in the other pic cause she's standing on snow. And her topline looks weird in this pic... In person her topline looks awesome for how long bodied she is!


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## bbpygmy

She has more of a slope to the rump since that is how her breeder likes her goats. She's all about breeding goats that can kid easy and have elegance and style. She's been doing NPGA Pygmy goats for over 40 years! And she's a judge.


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## janecb

You want to see a long goat...

My little wether Toby. He's the longest creature I've ever seen, other than his sister, and his topline is spot on. I have my fingers crossed he'll maintain it as he grows, and so far he has. He was 3 3/4 months in this picture and I had to pull him out of the food to take it. He's almost out of his fluffy and brown stage, and I'm super excited to show him this fall 

What do you think of him?



Also, speaking of boy-girl twins, have you had a problem with freemartins ever? A couple of years ago we had 3 pop up from separate lines and it was the strangest thing.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> You want to see a long goat...
> 
> My little wether Toby. He's the longest creature I've ever seen, other than his sister, and his topline is spot on. I have my fingers crossed he'll maintain it as he grows, and so far he has. He was 3 3/4 months in this picture and I had to pull him out of the food to take it. He's almost out of his fluffy and brown stage, and I'm super excited to show him this fall
> 
> What do you think of him?
> 
> Also, speaking of boy-girl twins, have you had a problem with freemartins ever? A couple of years ago we had 3 pop up from separate lines and it was the strangest thing.


He's nice, but he lacks muscling...he is really long this doe looks a lot longer in person than in a picture. My goats like to hunch up during picture time lol


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## janecb

What goat doesn't? Cameras are terrifying, you know. You gotta watch out for them, or they might get you.


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## Zzpygmies

Raising NPGA pygmy goaties


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## janecb

Ooh a brown agouti! I love that her stockings and head actually stand out - sometimes they get lost in the brown agoutis and they don't show as much contrast as the grays. 



Pros:

- very deep in the barrel
- nice blending from neck into shoulders
- straight front legs on strong bone
- good width between the eyes
- wide in the chest floor back into the barrel

Cons:

- could have a little straighter angulation to the rear legs and more width between the hocks 
- should hold her elbows tighter to the barrel
- could use a more forward extension of the sternum
- she could stand on slightly stronger bone


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## Zzpygmies

My grandma just gave her to me, and I'm debating on if I'm going to keep her or not.


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## bbpygmy

8 month old buck


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## janecb

Pros:

- upright head carriage
- nice rear angulation
- straight forelegs
- smoothly blended
- nice slope to the rump
- proportionate length of leg to length of body

Cons:

- needs stronger bone, especially in the legs
- could develop more in the sternum
- needs more overall body capacity and depth
- could develop a more masculine coat


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## hunterrandolph9

bbpygmy said:


> you have to give more than minerals... It helps, but not enough. Also what kind of mineral are you using? It should have at lease 1400ppm of copper. We copper bolus every 6 months or as needed and give Bo-Se every month to goats 0-18 months of age and then every 6 months when they are 18 months or older.


I'm feeding mana pro minerals, grain, alfalfa hay and medicated Purina goat food. Where could I get bose


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## bbpygmy

hunterrandolph9 said:


> I'm feeding mana pro minerals, grain, alfalfa hay and medicated Purina goat food. Where could I get bose


You can get BoSe from your vet.


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## bbpygmy

Janecb I got your friend request on Facebook


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## janecb

I finally got around to friending more goat world people  

Okey, how about this doe? She's 2 years old, and a C 4 Rascals. But she's a first gen, so it's Buffalo Gil's/Whirlwind (basically a Whirlwind that was stretched out).


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## bbpygmy

Pros: nice bone 
Nice alert appearance 
Looks to have nice development in the brisket 
Looks to have nice body capacity 
Looks to have nice width throughout

Cons: shorter bodied 
Looks like elbows are out a little? 
Could use more muscling from the neck into the shoulders
Another one who doesn't like to keep her head up 
Weird ear set
Steep rump
Loin looks arched a tad


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## Cedar Point Kikos

bbpygmy said:


> View attachment 89411
> 
> Here's one of my does, B & B Pygmies Miracle who is out of a Saltbox doe and a buck with lots of Our Oak Haven lines. She is 2 weeks old in this pic. You can see she is the same body style as Maple.


That baby is ABSOLUTELY adorable!


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## janecb

I'm convinced she was actually a llama in a past life by the way she holds her head up, and I had to hold her head in a funky way to keep her from bolting in that picture. I've also never taken a ruler to her withers, but she is definitely brushing up on the height limit. She's the easiest kidder in the world, though :wink:


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## janecb

Found a funny video on my computer of an ex-bottle baby running to me thinking I had food... Look at her fabulous rear tracking :laugh:

The doe who looks awful to her left is my PGCH after a tough premature kidding. She was still recovering.






Lily is 'huffy, puffy, AND fluffy' according to my family. She's the herd queen, and was my first bottle baby. She has a very pretty head, too. If she had a nicer hind end, she'd win, but alas she got everything in the front, and falls apart behind. Now I just need to get her pregnant (ugh) She takes, but reabsorbs around month 3, if not slightly sooner. She was pregnant in the video, which is why she's so wide and grunting, but reabsorbed the next week - she isn't overweight, is up to date on all vaccinations, and isn't mineral deficient. I'm going to talk to some vets about it at the next show to see what they think.

I don't know if you've heard of KHH Silverscreenking, but she's a granddaughter of his. Her mom is from the last batch he ever had. He had a pretty big influence on Ahsum Pygmies, but before he could really 'get around' at home, he was killed by a mountain lion.


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## Zzpygmies

I love her grunting!!


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## bbpygmy

Love these pictures in the MEMO


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## PygmyMom

bbpygmy said:


> Pros: Looks to have good muscling
> 
> -good leg angulation
> 
> -stands on good legs and feet
> 
> Cons: random white
> 
> I would like to see heavier bone
> 
> I would like to see more smoothness of blending from the neck into the shoulders
> 
> Looks like maybe the loin is arched??
> 
> ear set looks weird
> 
> I would like to see a more dished profile
> 
> I would like to see a shorter,wider muzzle
> 
> I would like to more depth increasing from the heart girth back into the flank
> 
> It looks like she could use more width, but hard to tell from picture (could you post a front and rear view?)


I wish I could catch her for some better angles  she is extremely skittish. Her white threw me off but of all of her "sisters" at the farm she came from, she was the only one with that strange white so my husband had to have her lol! She is due to kid soon too so we are excited to see what colors she throws into her kids!

On a side note, I WANT a buck from your herd so badly! Since we tragically lost ours this year, we will be in the market for a nice young registered buck this upcoming winter.


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## bbpygmy

PygmyMom said:


> I wish I could catch her for some better angles  she is extremely skittish. Her white threw me off but of all of her "sisters" at the farm she came from, she was the only one with that strange white so my husband had to have her lol! She is due to kid soon too so we are excited to see what colors she throws into her kids!
> 
> On a side note, I WANT a buck from your herd so badly! Since we tragically lost ours this year, we will be in the market for a nice young registered buck this upcoming winter.


WELL, then your the first on our waitlist for a buck


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## bbpygmy

Here's a list of does due that will have bucklings for sale if they have bucks. ( I have more bred that I would be willing to sell bucks from but I don't think they took  usually by now it starts to get noticeable if they are bred. I'm almost certain these 3 does are bred) All 3 does have really nice lines as well as the bucks they are bred to. All of our sires are rosette winners in the NPGA show ring and 2 of the does are also rosette winners.


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## janecb

<-- I still love Dominating Performance. Do you have any does bred to him who you will be selling doelings from?


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## PygmyMom

Oh I LOVE Arriba and Spring Vale! We like bigger beards on our goats  I am in MN but would be happy to road trip to IN for one of your goats! I would be interested in a buckling around Oct-Dec of this year! By that time Id expect yours to be old enough to start breeding


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## janecb

Thoughts on this doe? She was 12 months in this picture. I'm going to get an updated one this weekend. She's a high placer in her class, but was in a weird growth spurt when this picture was taken. She's my first doe due this year, as a FF, and I'm hoping she has a doe - possibly two


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> <-- I still love Dominating Performance. Do you have any does bred to him who you will be selling doelings from?


I have 3 does bred to him so if your lucky and they have mostly does


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## bbpygmy




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## bbpygmy

The two does that are above are ones that I would like to keep kids out of. If I do sell them they would have to go to a show home only.


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## bbpygmy

PygmyMom said:


> Oh I LOVE Arriba and Spring Vale! We like bigger beards on our goats  I am in MN but would be happy to road trip to IN for one of your goats! I would be interested in a buckling around Oct-Dec of this year! By that time Id expect yours to be old enough to start breeding


If you are wanting masculine coats those two are the ones you will want a buck kid from!


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## janecb

bbpygmy said:


> The two does that are above are ones that I would like to keep kids out of. If I do sell them they would have to go to a show home only.


Well if you have a baby doe surplus, I'd love to steal one 

Although the kids wouldn't be weaned by convention, which may be tricky, unless you would be willing to ship?


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Well if you have a baby doe surplus, I'd love to steal one
> 
> Although the kids wouldn't be weaned by convention, which may be tricky, unless you would be willing to ship?


Maybe bottle babies?


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## janecb

If you're willing to start one, I could finish one... It's not like my goats are already obnoxiously friendly and spend their days eating my hair and clothing. Oh, no, nothing like that...


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> If you're willing to start one, I could finish one... It's not like my goats are already obnoxiously friendly and spend their days eating my hair and clothing. Oh, no, nothing like that...


Lol were bottle feeding a lot of our kids to keep them away from the rest of the herd since we had a Johnes positive a while back. This will decrease the likeliness of them catching it. They could pick it up from mama through the milk and a teat that has been contaminated by manure. This is just a way to monitor the herd  of course all our does will be tested right before they kid also. We're building a new barn for kids under 12 months so they have no interaction with the rest of our herd til their immune systems develop.


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## janecb

If I had more space, I would build an entirely separate barn. As it is, I have a kidding barn and pen that's sectioned off. Since my herd is so small, I can keep a close eye on the individual health of each goat. I've also recently found that exposing babies to a controlled amount of germs from the rest of the herd helps boost their immune systems earlier. I miss having a bottle baby... I only get to bottle feed the ones that look like they're going to die


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> If I had more space, I would build an entirely separate barn. As it is, I have a kidding barn and pen that's sectioned off. Since my herd is so small, I can keep a close eye on the individual health of each goat. I've also recently found that exposing babies to a controlled amount of germs from the rest of the herd helps boost their immune systems earlier. I miss having a bottle baby... I only get to bottle feed the ones that look like they're going to die


I would leave them out there, but the barn where the does are at is the same barn our positive doe was in  so no more goats will be kept in that barn. We're getting donkeys and putting them in there to protect the goats.


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## janecb

Ooh, how many donkeys? Be careful to geld them early if they're stallions - we had one kill a pregnant doe when she was in the early stages of labor. We gelded him, but he's still a bit rough with the goats. But in the time they've been around, we haven't had a huge predator problem.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Ooh, how many donkeys? Be careful to geld them early if they're stallions - we had one kill a pregnant doe when she was in the early stages of labor. We gelded him, but he's still a bit rough with the goats. But in the time they've been around, we haven't had a huge predator problem.


We're getting 2 Jennies. we're not actually keeping goats with the donkeys cause I know they can be mean.


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## janecb

They've calmed down a lot. They were raised with our goats alongside guard dogs, so the one who killed a goat was trying to play with it - he used to live with the bucks, and he thought he was a puppy/goat hybrid. He's calmed down a lot more - he's the first guy. The second lives with the does and HATES people - but loves and tolerates the goats.

Also, how many do you think the doe in the third picture is pregnant with? She's due starting the very end of March at the least. She's had triplets twice and a set of twins once.


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## bbpygmy

I guess trips for the doe


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## janecb

Hopefully a doeling will be in there somewhere. Of all 8 babies she's had in the past, only 1 was a doe, and she got stuck under a bucket and died (I'm not sure how it happened either...)


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Hopefully a doeling will be in there somewhere. Of all 8 babies she's had in the past, only 1 was a doe, and she got stuck under a bucket and died (I'm not sure how it happened either...)


Oh no  hopefully there's a doe!


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## janecb

Maybe even a caramel! She's bred to a caramel half brother of my PGCH buck, the sire of both of which was a PGCH MCH caramel. This is the grandsire. He passed away about a month ago


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Maybe even a caramel! She's bred to a caramel half brother of my PGCH buck, the sire of both of which was a PGCH MCH caramel. This is the grandsire. He passed away about a month ago


I think I recognize him from somewhere!! Was he owned by Linda Colville?


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## janecb

No, he was owned by Linda Henwood, and then Kathy. But Linda Colville has a trio of bucks that look almost identical to him. Maybe you're thinking of this guy?


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## bbpygmy

Yes I was thinking of Him!!  they both look great, I love both those boys.


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## janecb

I'm super excited. There are a TON of nice darker caramel boys around here all of a sudden. It's much harder to find a light or white caramel, boy or girl.


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## Zzpygmies

Really? It seems that all I ever have are white/ light caramels  I love the dark caramels!


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## bbpygmy

I love dark caramel bucks!


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## Zzpygmies

Yeah white caramel bucks always look dingy to me


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## bbpygmy

I have white caramel bucks too, I think they're flashy if kept clean


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## bbpygmy




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## janecb

The trouble is keeping them clean :laugh:

I think there's been a rise recently in dark caramels showing. I don't have any caramel goats in most of my lines, so I have to bring caramels into my herd in order to get it - and most of the caramels being shown and bred by breeders I buy from are medium/dark. I love some light caramel does - but the darker ones look much flashier, especially when they have bellybands


----------



## bbpygmy

FINALLY have a good picture of Sky boy  had to get a pee shot


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## janecb

He's so fluffy! And he looks so focused, like peeing is the most important thing in the world to him... I always get confused when my boys are trying to chase me down for food and stop; it always takes me a second to realize they're just peeing. Sometimes they don't stop :lol:

Pros:

- strong bone
- straight foreleg
- upright head carriage; good blending from neck into shoulders
- alert, animated expression
- level top line
- shot, cobby, and compact
- good rear angulation
- good depth in the barrel increasing into the flank


Cons: 

- could use a little more proportion in length of body to length of leg
- could have a less steep rump
- a tad more forward development of the brisket
- has too masculine of a coat for his age (although it's a winter coat, so I'm not sure if I'd really mark him down for it.)



I'm STILL jealous of him. I may steal him at convention... Is there any particular reason why he was wethered?


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## bbpygmy

His bite is off :/ and may I ask why he needs a more proportion? He has won because of his balance and symmetry multiple times.


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## bbpygmy

Do you think he needs to be shorter bodied? I don't like goats much shorter bodied than him. I think he is perfect length for how tall he is.


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## bbpygmy

And as for the steep rump thing, that's just how his breeder likes her goats. She breeds for somewhat steep rumps and length of body for easy kiddings, in the 40 years she has been breeding she has not once had a C-Section. To me, that's pretty impressive. His rump annoys me too, but he's never gotten marked down because of it (yet).


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## bbpygmy

And about the coat... This annoys the crap out of me. Is there anything you can do to get rid of the cape? She doesn't wether until 6 months old because of U.C. He has been marked down a few times for this.


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## janecb

About his proportion - his coat is throwing me off, and it looks like he's going through a growth spurt. I don't necessarily think he needs to be shorter bodied... just longer legged (maybe half an inch, if that). They seem a bit short compared to how long he is, but his hair is really throwing me off too. I think it's just a funky growth spurt, or the angle of the picture - it's just slightly above him, which would make them seem shorter. 

I understand the steep rump - so far, I haven't needed a C-section, and I want to keep it that way. I think a good way to balance it out is to breed for more width in the escutcheon so even if there are problems, there's enough room to assist. 

For his coat - I don't think there's anything you can do, other than wait it out. I understand wethering later, and some judges in my area have talked about changing (or at least slackening) the scorecard on masculine coats on wethers under a certain age to encourage breeders to band later. When it gets warmer, his longer hair should fall out, and it should grow back in shorter. Some goats just have longer hair, though - this doe is a PGCH and has the longest, most fluffy coat I've ever seen. When she's shown, her hair constantly has to be smoothed down, because she puffs it up naturally ... including her face. You just have to show him confidently, and pretend his coat isn't even a tiny bit masculine; the judges will notice if you worry over it.


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## bbpygmy

Ah, see I don't worry about the short legs  I like them shorter legged. That's just my opinion. I think it looks better than the ones whose legs are too long. He's also squatting a little since he's peeing.

I don't usually worry about his coat too much, it doesn't really affect him except for under a couple judges.

I really wish this guy was a buck! His width in the escutcheon is PHENOMENAL!


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## janecb

I actually have come to prefer longer-legged does with a longer body, as they seem more feminine and graceful while showing, and have had less kidding problems than short does in my experience. I've had to assist in a ton of births, and it's infinitely easier in a longer legged doe than a short one. Conversely, I prefer shorter-legged bucks, and wethers go either way for me. I have seen quite a few pretty does with shorter legs, though, and will hopefully be getting one this spring from Desert Suns. I want my herd to have a good mix of body types, so I'm not always looking at the same goat with different colors and markings. That just seems like it'd get a bit boring, and it would be next to impossible for the rest of my family to tell them apart.

My only problem with longer legged goats is they tend to look (and be) less deep, so I've been working on improving body capacity and depth in my herd while retaining a more feminine, alert appearance and ease of tracking. 

And if his bite was more correct, he'd be a FANTASTIC buck; he looks super wide all over, not just in the escutcheon, and has amazing, heavy bone. It's so sad that such a small thing can make the decision to wether :/


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## janecb

Thoughts on this doeling? I know she's super young in this picture, but I should have a more recent one tomorrow or the day after to compare her to. She's out of my PGCH buck and an Igonzo brood doe, and was 3 weeks old in this picture. She's a show prospect, but also comes from fantastic brood lines. 

(ignore my muddy boots, this was right after the 'big storm' in December, so everything was mucky. She was also standing downhill, and I had to hold her head up like that to stop her from freaking out and jumping around. It was the end of a long day, and she'd never been on a leash before.)


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## bbpygmy

She looks really nice  nice bone and a nice head. Looks like she's got some angulation going for her too. She's got a bright future ️

Here's Sky Boy's Sire 








Dam: 








Full Blood Sister (different DOB)


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## janecb

Wow, you can really see where the sire improved the dam's blending and overall muscling. The sire is gorgeous! Does he have any grands?


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## bbpygmy

Yep he has 2, I'm fairly certain he will be a PGCH. His dam also has 2 grands. Sarah doesn't feed any supplements so her goats don't get as much muscling. But on the plus side of that her goats live a long time because of it. She currently has a 12 year old bred!


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## janecb

How old is he? He doesn't look very old. 

I can't believe she has a 12 year old bred! I just had to put down a 9 year old, because she had such awful arthritis and nothing was helping. I suspect lines may also have a big part in the lifespan of a goat - many goats around here stop showing at 5, and some PGCH's show for their masters until about 7. There may be some older goats that I don't know about, but that's been my experience for the most part.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> How old is he? He doesn't look very old.
> 
> I can't believe she has a 12 year old bred! I just had to put down a 9 year old, because she had such awful arthritis and nothing was helping. I suspect lines may also have a big part in the lifespan of a goat - many goats around here stop showing at 5, and some PGCH's show for their masters until about 7. There may be some older goats that I don't know about, but that's been my experience for the most part.


He is 4 years old, and Sky Boy's dam is currently 7 years old. She got both of her grands at 5 years old! Sarah's goats develop slower, but are VERY structurally sound animals. She looks more into the genetics she brings into her herd. She focuses more on easy kidding and longitivtiy rather than what is going to win. Many goats around here stop showing at 2 or 3. Many are PGCHs by that age. Sarah has some of the longest living goats I have ever seen!

Here's the 12 year old doe.








We had a buck who was a Grandson to her

















His sire PGCH Fir Meadow Xplorer is also the grandsire to Sky Boy and the sire of the 2014 runner up Natl doe, Old Orchard Wish, who is the dam to our doe Wish's Willow. He seems to have a dominant grey gene.

Here's a daughter of K.B.


----------



## janecb

I want to comment on how adorably fluffy goats get in your part of the country  

Mine only get a little bit fluffy at the end of December, and lose their 'winter coats' by mid-March. It's pretty disappointing  

When I used to breed alongside another breeder, he had a doe, her daughter, her granddaughter, and great-granddaughter all living together. I believe the great-granddaughter is now pregnant. The most amazing thing was the great-grandmother doe still looked totally showable, and I tried to convince him to take her to the MCH classes at 11 1/2 years old! He said no, but I admired her from afar; she was easily one of the prettiest goats on the property, next to PGCH MCH Ahsum Pygmies Strike A Pose, who was the 2011 national runner up, and PGCH MCH Ahsum Pygmies In-Doe-Pendence, who will probably be showing at this years convention. I personally liked Tomato the best, but he never really listened to me anyways :laugh: She's out of KHH America One and WRL PGCH A Merlin Tradition. 

Around here, we rarely get PGCH's by 2. Many will get a junior grand, a 2 year old grand, then leave for some breeding. They'll come back and pick up their 3rd and final grand around 4, then retire from showing. Although it isn't unheard of for does to TOTALLY finish (PGCH and MCH) by 3 (I believe there was a 2 1/2 y/o last year who did it), or to finish by 7-8. It just doesn't happen as often. 


I love that little doe! She looks like she needs a little more filling out and maturing to do, but looks to be very structurally correct. In that picture she looks like she already has a nicely developed brisket, and marvelous top line. I'd like to see some more width between the hocks and forelegs, as well as smoother blending from the neck into the shoulders (i.e., more overall muscling and development).


----------



## bbpygmy

as you have probably noticed, Sarah's goats do not have much muscling or width. And they take a very long time to develop.

Here's PGCH Old Orchard Wish, at 2 years old. 3 years later she went on to get runner-up Natl Champ doe. She didn't even get her first grand until 3 years old and didn't finish until she was 5, only a month before convention last year. She is the Dam to our doe Wish's Willow









Here's Wish last year at convention









And here's our doe Wish's Willow at about 8 months old


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## janecb

Wish didn't fill out until much older, but once she did... Wish's Willow is really pretty! She looks a lot like her dam, which is good, since her dam has a national title. She also looks like she inherited a good deal more width. They're both very smooth as well. If only she had a belly band... :lol:

Speaking of belly bands, what is your opinion on them? Many breeders around here try to get them, as they're flashier, but I'm not sure what it's like near you. Part of my decision when I keep a kid is if they're flashy enough to stand out from the rest of their class... (as well as good conformation)


----------



## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Wish didn't fill out until much older, but once she did... Wish's Willow is really pretty! She looks a lot like her dam, which is good, since her dam has a national title. She also looks like she inherited a good deal more width. They're both very smooth as well. If only she had a belly band... :lol:
> 
> Speaking of belly bands, what is your opinion on them? Many breeders around here try to get them, as they're flashier, but I'm not sure what it's like near you. Part of my decision when I keep a kid is if they're flashy enough to stand out from the rest of their class... (as well as good conformation)


We rarely see belly bands in this area... I personally like them.


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## janecb

About half of my herd have belly bands :lol:

It keeps it spicy, and helps my friends and siblings tell them apart. I'm working on obtaining a dark caramel with a bellyband, either through breeding (fingers crossed that my caramel doe took!) or buying. My two does that are due next week are bred to a buck (Hot Topic) who throws lots of white, so there should be some interesting markings - and hopefully a full bellyband! I'm either looking for a doeling or buckling out of my FF, Ruby, but the other doe can have anything she likes, as long as they're healthy  

Of course, it looks like I'm inbreeding like CRAZY with Ruby, but her father on her papers (Hot Topic) isn't her biological father... big oops... I'm sending them in to be corrected tomorrow. There are so many fun things to discover in the old breeding records. Her REAL sire was eaten by a mountain lion before he could breed the whole herd or show, and he was a gorgeous light grey agouti with a full bellyband. Luckily he got one doe bred before he was killed; and she had a single DOELING. Talk about luck.


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## bbpygmy

our line ups usually look like this... I know, a lot different body styles than out by you! I've noticed the whirlwind line also throws a lot of belly bands  here's one of my Wethers out of my PGCH Buck out of Pygmy goats by T.J. lines, if you go farther back it is whirlwind.


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## janecb

You're definitely right about the whirlwind lines having lots of white. The wether in my profile picture is basically a full whirlwind. I don't think I've had an all-grey/all-black/all-caramel kid since last January :laugh: Even when they look like they don't have a bellyband, they have toes, kiss of merlins, or belly dots.


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## bbpygmy

here's a picture of his other side

And here's his sire


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## janecb

The doe who is almost 12 is an America One daughter  

I believe I have a doe with Merlin 2001 in her pedigree 3+ times, and more than one have Copyright by Merlin in theirs (therefore, Merlin 2001 as well). I LOVE the polka dot on his sire. I'm basically throwing spaghetti at the wall with my goats trying to get a dot that ISN'T on a wether :lol: 

My dumb wether Toby has been getting his head stuck in the fence. And not just stuck. He's standing on his hind legs to reach his head as high as he can, and THEN getting it stuck (he can't pull it out and down because his head is pretty big as it is). He hasn't just done it once or twice, though; this afternoon marked the 5th time I personally have extracted him. My mother has done it 3 times, and my siblings have done it 5 times as well (that's only what they've told me). There's a rosemary bush on the other side of the fence. Yummy. 

On Sunday he got stuck in a bucket. I have no idea where it even came from.



Genius.


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## Zzpygmies

Janecb I just had a dark Carmel buck with a belly band


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## janecb

Ooh I'm jealous! I'm holding out on a doe due at the end of the month who was bred to a dark caramel and has always thrown some white, or possibly a dark caramel doe whose only kid so far had a full bellyband


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## janecb

Ok... does anyone have any thoughts on this guy? He's a little bottle baby wether that was premature.


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## bbpygmy

Looks nice, he stands on nice strong heavy bone and he's got a gorgeous head! He looks like he is still a little young to critique too much  how old is he?


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## bbpygmy

Here's our little guy, he's 5 months. I really like what his sire is producing!

His brother Trivette did AMAZING at the last show, Jr/Res Grand in the youth show at 5 months old!! I had at least 6 people ask to buy him, it was crazy! I knew my faith in my little guy was not misplaced ️


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## janecb

Adorable! Mark (my wether) is just over 6 months now. I originally planned to keep him a buck, but he had so many health problems as a young baby, and won't ever be quite as grand as I had hoped. Luckily, he has an older sister who looks almost IDENTICAL to him. They have the same bellyband, and it breaks in the exact same point 

I love both of your boys. Trivette looks like he could have a tad bit more width between his hocks, but it looks like he went up before out. Your little wether is adorable as well! He's going to be very impressive when he grows up; he already has a forward sternum and is beautifully balanced.


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## janecb

Big sister (right after a tough kidding... a big single who didn't make it)


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## bbpygmy

Actually Trivette tracks with more width between the hocks than the wether Flash, it was actually one of the reasonings for him placing 1st in his class, I don't remember his reasoning for getting Junior, I was too shocked to even remember. The exact words for him getting res. Grand was "this little guy is just screaming senior buck" lol


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## janecb

I can see it. He's very developed, and looks to have super nice bone. It's very heavy, and correctly attached (very straight, looks like tight joints). Who was the judge? 

And you have YOUTH buck shows? I'm officially jealous. Are they sanctioned? We only get youth doe and wether shows... very few youth showers around here have bucks. Do 4 youth grands count as a full, or the 3 like a doe show? And can they get 2 full grands from youth shows (8 youth grands? 6?) or just 1?


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I can see it. He's very developed, and looks to have super nice bone. It's very heavy, and correctly attached (very straight, looks like tight joints). Who was the judge?
> 
> And you have YOUTH buck shows? I'm officially jealous. Are they sanctioned? We only get youth doe and wether shows... very few youth showers around here have bucks. Do 4 youth grands count as a full, or the 3 like a doe show? And can they get 2 full grands from youth shows (8 youth grands? 6?) or just 1?


Yes it was sanctioned, it is also 1/3 credit. Dominating performance got the grand  I'm not sure about how many grands they can get from youth shows...This was in Lousiana, and the judge was Chris Rowley.







Grand buck line-up 3 of the 4 were ours! 







Grand doe line-up ALL 4 WERE OURS!!!


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## janecb

I'm so jealous! Dominating Performance is still my favorite of your boys 

I had the same doe lineup two years ago, where I basically shut out the other youth exhibitors. It was at night, and almost everyone had left, so I had to run around recruiting anyone I could find under 18, regardless of whether or not they could show a goat. I don't have any pictures of it, though... It was pretty awesome. 

That little doe in reserve senior is pretty. I LOVE her bellyband, especially against the black agouti coat. Without seeing the goats in person, I'd probably swap the reserve senior and junior does with the senior and junior champions. Although it's hard since the two junior does aren't fully set up; they might stay the same.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I'm so jealous! Dominating Performance is still my favorite of your boys
> 
> I had the same doe lineup two years ago, where I basically shut out the other youth exhibitors. It was at night, and almost everyone had left, so I had to run around recruiting anyone I could find under 18, regardless of whether or not they could show a goat. I don't have any pictures of it, though... It was pretty awesome.
> 
> That little doe in reserve senior is pretty. I LOVE her bellyband, especially against the black agouti coat. Without seeing the goats in person, I'd probably swap the reserve senior and junior does with the senior and junior champions. Although it's hard since the two junior does aren't fully set up; they might stay the same.


I totally agree with switching!! Usually the black agouti places over the caramel and usually the reserve junior places over the junior. All judges look for different things though.


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## janecb

It's true. The scorecard is open to interpretation by judges... so a goat that may have higher points in one judges opinion may not in another's. Are the black agouti and caramel the same age? The caramel looks like she has shorter legs and more spring of rib, whereas the black agouti is taller with a more square structure.


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## bbpygmy

Caramel is 4 and agouti just turned 2


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## janecb

Ah. I thought the caramel was older, but I wasn't entirely sure. Which of the two do you prefer?


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## bbpygmy

I prefer the agouti, she's got more rear leg angulation when viewed from the side, more width between the hocks and a tighter shoulder attachment. I would like to grant to the caramel straiter forelegs and greater spring of rib


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## bbpygmy

The agouti also has a more pleasing Pygmy type head and more muscling from the neck down into the shoulders.


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## janecb

I have a question. I'm doing my first blood draw tomorrow (I really need the results by Friday and I can't wait for the vet to come out... breeding needs to begin happening, and I'm introducing a new doe to the herd). Do you have any experience with shaving necks and how long it takes to grow back? I don't care about shaving the bucks, as they won't be showing until around convention, but I'm drawing blood on 4 does, 3 of which will be showing at the end of the month. They all have pretty thick hair, and I don't want to hurt them, so I plan on shaving... will it luck silly at the show? Or should it grow back enough by then that it won't be noticeable?


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## janecb

^ also I agree with your reasoning. The agouti also looks a bit wider in the chest.


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## bbpygmy

I've never had to shave to draw blood so I wouldn't know... we have the vet do it. I'm going to learn how to do it this spring.


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## janecb

I figured I should learn how to do it since I feel like I'm ALWAYS calling the vet to come draw blood. And he's almost impossible to schedule with, in addition to arriving at least an hour late to every appointment. Luckily I have an account with WADDL, which means test results the day-of testing. AND I've gotten over my fear of blood and needles. I might not need to cut their hair... hopefully not...


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## magic

I am so excited to have found this thread! bbpygmy, you have already helped me so much with learning about pygmies! congrats on all your wins at your last show! I am so jealous of all the northern pygmies, they all seem to be much faster growing and muscular than the ones down here in florida. My 7 month doe doesnt stand a chance against the more developed doelings , she is getting peanut hay, a feed mix of purina show goat, corn, calfmanna, alfalfa pellets, BOS, beet pulp. I deworm her and just finished a coccidia treatment, is there anything else I can do for her?


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## janecb

She looks right on track for 7 months to me - some are much slower growing, mine included. I have a 7 month old doe who looks like she's smaller than that. As long as she isn't having diarrhea or act sick, I'd keep up her feed and just let her grow on her own 

And bbpygmy - I drew blood today! I did 3 does. My poor bottle baby was my experimental doe, and I didn't actually get any blood from her, but she took it. The vet is coming saturday (hopefully, he hasn't returned my calls) to draw from the bucks, so I'll have him show me his technique then... most of my goats have very thick necks, so the vein is really far in there...


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## bbpygmy

Magic- yep she looks about the right size 

Janecb- that's good! At least now you will know how to do it so you don't have to depend on the vet


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## janecb

It's a very freeing feeling. But I'm not even sure the blood will be tested this week... it may be carried over into next weeks batch. At least I know I can do it, even if my accuracy isn't 100%. When I started goats, just giving them SQ shots made me dizzy. Now I can disbud, band, and draw blood without thinking twice about it


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## bbpygmy

That's good ️


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## janecb

This is a 2 1/2 year old doe. Don't mind her crazy expression and how tightly I'm holding her... it was thundering. She's hopefully bred to a buckling who got grand at 6 months (he's GORGEOUS). She'd be due a month from now (a month and a half from this picture).


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## magic

Thanks you guys, its nice to hear she looks good. She is one of my first goats and I want to make sure Im not doing anything wrong. Another question I have is about getting a buck. I am thinking about getting a buck or buckling probably near the end of summer, what do I look for? how much should I pay? And does age of the buck matter? This is the doe I would be breeding







her back legs are what I am most hoping to improve.


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## janecb

When I look at a buck, I think about what they're bringing to my herd. They have to be better than most, if not ALL, of my does, and have to correct their faults in progeny. I also prefer belly bands on my boys, but that doesn't matter if he has amazing conformation. In my area, nice bucks can range from $400-$1200+. I'm not sure about your area. I would look for good show and breedings line, and try to find an older buck - 2 or over. HOWEVER, if you do this, make sure he's had live progeny. If you get a buckling, the same things as above apply, although you may have to wait longer to breed. Not many bucklings are ready to breed until they're 10 months old, sometimes older. If you're looking to improve her back legs, then get a buck who has AMAZING rear angulation. 

If you're looking to breed just her, I would suggest sending her to another breeders farm to be bred. You should request blood test results on the buck in question, for Johnes, CAE, and CL, and should expect the breeder to ask the same of you.


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## bbpygmy

A buck should improve what you are missing in your herd, for instance some of my herd lacks width in the rear so I am working on improving that through breeding. A good head on a buck is a MUST for me. If you are looking to improve rear legs than look for a buck with a less steep rump (that does rump is making her have a poor rear end assembly) you also will want your buck to have good rear leg angulation, nice tight stifles, nice width between the hocks, nice tracking and a good set to the rear legs if you are looking to improve rears in your herd.


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## magic

I have looked in my area for farms I can take her to but the only ones that I would trust are closed herds, I do plan on breeding my younger doe later on and continuing to grow my herd. One of the problems that worries me about getting an older buck would be not knowing if he will be too aggressive, should I really be worried about this?


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## bbpygmy

magic said:


> I have looked in my area for farms I can take her to but the only ones that I would trust are closed herds, I do plan on breeding my younger doe later on and continuing to grow my herd. One of the problems that worries me about getting an older buck would be not knowing if he will be too aggressive, should I really be worried about this?


If I were you I would get a younger buck (6 months maybe?) so you can get him used to being around people at a young age. They aren't usually really aggressive, but if they are scared of people they can be harder to handle.


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## janecb

You should also get him a wether buddy around the same age if he won't be living year-round with your does, just so he doesn't get lonely and depressed.


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## magic

ok thanks for all the tips!  I am so excited to be starting my own herd!


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## janecb

janecb said:


> This is a 2 1/2 year old doe. Don't mind her crazy expression and how tightly I'm holding her... it was thundering. She's hopefully bred to a buckling who got grand at 6 months (he's GORGEOUS). She'd be due a month from now (a month and a half from this picture).


Thoughts..?


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## bbpygmy

I'll do her when I get some time


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## janecb

I just went back to try and draw blood on the 3 goats I missed last week, since my last group won't be tested until this week anyways... the shipping was delayed (go figure). After poking around on my bottle baby doe again, and hitting the vein, only to have her escape the person helping me hold, I gave up... then I went to the bucks, and got both of them on my first try! So I have everyone I need sent in and should get my results on Thursday. I needed to test my boys before breeding in a couple of weeks, the new doe, and two does to spot check the herd - one who was off the property for breeding, and one who hasn't been off the property save for shows. So I'm super happy and thrilled I didn't pass out when my bottle baby started bleeding all over the place, screaming like she was going to die


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## bbpygmy

Here's Dominating Performance after getting his third grand this weekend


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## janecb

So... you want to sell him at convention? *wink wink*

I'm not surprised he got his third! 

Pros:

- fabulous head
- looks thickly muscled
- looks like he has nice blending
- nice rear leg angulation
- nice front and rear leg attachment
- strong, heavy bone
- proportionate length of body to length of leg
- smooth topline
- alert and animated expression
- BELLYBAND! 

Cons:

- could use more development in the brisket
- needs a bit more depth in the barrel towards the flank
- he could also have a more manly beard


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> So... you want to sell him at convention? *wink wink*
> 
> I'm not surprised he got his third!
> 
> Pros:
> 
> - fabulous head
> 
> - looks thickly muscled
> 
> - looks like he has nice blending
> 
> - nice rear leg angulation
> 
> - nice front and rear leg attachment
> 
> - strong, heavy bone
> 
> - proportionate length of body to length of leg
> 
> - smooth topline
> 
> - alert and animated expression
> 
> - BELLYBAND!
> 
> Cons:
> 
> - could use more development in the brisket
> 
> - needs a bit more depth in the barrel towards the flank
> 
> - he could also have a more manly beard


He's not going anywhere


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## janecb

Oh, darn. 

Do you have any baby pygmies yet? I'm waiting on a couple of does who seem determined to wait until this Friday, when I have a social event... go figure


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## bbpygmy

Nope no Pygmies yet  I bred for later spring to avoid kidding in the cold temperatures. First Pygmy is due next week!


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## janecb

Good luck then! I saw your baby NDs... they're adorable <3


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## bbpygmy

Love this doe ️ she's a half sister to Dominating Performance


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## janecb

Gorgeous! My only comment is her head is being held so high it's making her look like she has very little/no blending between the neck and the shoulders. That in turn makes her shoulders look higher than the rest of her top line, which gives her a dip in the chine. It's also making her look like she has very little development in the brisket. All of these things I know are most likely not actual faults of hers, but just something to keep in mind while showing... Otherwise, she has almost perfect everything; I especially love her depth and rear leg angulation


----------



## bbpygmy

She's a brat in the show ring and I had a hard time getting a picture of her. This is the best one I have... Here's one of her when she was owned by Michael


----------



## bbpygmy

Also unfortunately it's that time of year and she shed out all her winter coat in her neck making it look awful...


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## janecb

So pretty  
Now if only I could get my permanents back into show condition... 

Pros:

- excellent development of brisket 
- alert, animated expression
- nice rear leg angulation
- holds her elbows tightly to the barrel
- good depth
- strong bone 
- straight forelegs
- very feminine

Cons:

- small dip in the chine/rise in the loin
- a tad steep in the rump


----------



## janecb

bbpygmy said:


> Also unfortunately it's that time of year and she shed out all her winter coat in her neck making it look awful...


Ah, that makes a lot more sense. We've had a very *mild* winter here, so my goats never really got a winter coat. I groomed today, and only had to get the undercoat out of one goat, a wether, since its supposed to be in the 80's at the show this weekend.


----------



## janecb

My newest doe, SoSo. I got a decent picture of her while drying her off after a bath. She's a very petite 2 year old Whirlwind.


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## bbpygmy

Looks like she has nice strait forelegs. Too bad she has random white on her leg :/


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## janecb

Her mismark makes her stand out, and she's VERY structurally correct. So its balanced out 

Well, that and her inability to walk on a leash and subsequent flopping around while screaming...


----------



## bbpygmy

I know some judges freak out about the random white and some don't care at all, so it all depends on the judge. She seems to be structurally correct so she should still do well for you. The screaming and flopping may be a problem though lol


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## janecb

This show is a trial run; if she's just wretched about walking, I may not show her again until she calms down. I bought her mostly for her prospect as a brood doe, and I love bellybands, so the white should throw some  (I also got her because I've had a recent love of black agoutis with bellybands on their show side...)


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## janecb

This is another new doe; she's a yearling named Shirley.


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## bbpygmy

She's very animated 

Pros: upright head carriage 
Nice topline
Nice strait forelegs
Nice bone

Cons:
A little shorter bodied
Steep rump 
Slightly posty legs 
Would like to see a shorter,wider muzzle

Overall a nice yearling


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## janecb

She has a TON of filling out to do. I bought her from a breeder who grazes them rather than feeding them hay. She's also never been shown, hence the hairy legs :lol: 

I got her as a brood doe, along with another girl who is a completely different style, since my older brood does are reaching the end of their breeding career.


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## janecb

My other yearling doe (she's also never been shown, can you tell?). Not so sure I'm going to keep her forever, but for the moment I'm going to see what she throws. She's from slower developing lines that I don't have much of in my herd. I also just need numbers to supply local 4Hers. There aren't too many breeders who have a consistent supply of babies available around here, and I'm trying to support the NPGA by sending fresh members its way.


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## bbpygmy

Sorry for not critiquing your doe above (I promise I'll do her later) but what would you say to critique this doe? I gave my opinion and I just want to see what yours is...


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## janecb

Hard to see from the picture, because the trophy is blocking her (not an awful problem to have...) 

Pros:

- alert, upright head carriage
- nice length of body
- straight forelegs
- I think she has a nice rear assembly and angulation (..? the picture is dark there, and it doesn't help that her stockings and rear blend into the background...)
- nice general appearance (stockings+bellyband+light grey agouti=magic)
- waddles. 

Cons:

- small dip in the chine
- could use more blending from the neck into the shoulders
- lacks depth in the barrel
- lacks width between the hocks
- lacks development in the brisket

She's really flashy and elegant, although she looks a bit on the small side. Overall a really pretty doe, but you would need to breed her to a buck with a lot of width/depth to balance her out in future kids. Have you seen her in person? I suspect she isn't a very photogenic goat.


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## bbpygmy

Never seen her in person, my opinion was the almost the same as yours... I told her that I would like to see more development in the brisket and more muscling from the neck into the shoulders. She disagreed with me on that. She said that the muscling causes kidding problems? Is that true? I've never had muscling cause issues... I've had wide shoulders become an issue when kidding time comes, but I don't think I've ever had an issue with muscling...


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## janecb

It's funky that she thinks muscling causes kidding issues. My babies are usually born with little muscle and put it on the first few days from the colostrum and richer milk the dams have at first. Chunky shoulders and heads (i.e. basic bone structure size) can be trouble during kidding, but... muscling? The lack of muscling between neck and shoulders is, in my experience, a more genetic trait; my does that lack it usually have kids that lack it as well. But the does who lack it don't have an easier time of kidding, nor a more difficult one... it doesn't affect them at all. In fact, some of my more muscled does throughout have far easier times kidding.


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## janecb

What do you think about this little bugger? He's out of my PGCH buck, Hot Topic, and a FF K's Heavenly Hill doe (of my breeding). I think he's the first baby buck Hotty's had cute enough to _keep_ a buck. (Sorry his head is blurred, I caught him mid-turn; he was checking out another doe and her kid and his dam started yelling at him)


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## bbpygmy

Looks like he's got great potential! He's very flashy


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## bbpygmy

So excited about this little doeling. We're getting her from a breeder in Georgia. We have been on her waitlist for a doe out of this breeding for a while. She's a full blood sister to MCH/PGCH Aribba Acres Valentino's Beauty pictured below













Beauty is owned by the Staley family in NC. Anyways, this little girl was born this morning ️ this will make kid #23 for her dam, who is 7 years old and has NEVER had any assistance or had a single.


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## janecb

Oh my goodness the curly ears! She's adorable! And waddles! (Sorry, I obsess over waddles like crazy. None of my goats have them, can you tell?) She looks like she has nice width between the eyes, lovely head markings, and is nice and chunky  And her big sister is gorgeous too - my fingers are crossed that your little doe follows in her footsteps, and has lots and lots of healthy babies! 

Side note: have you ever seen an adult goat with the curled ears? I know every breeder around here tapes curly ears. One of my wethers had one, and I let it go until he was 3 1/2 months old. I got yelled at by a friend for it... she pulled a bandaid out of nowhere and made me use it to wrap it after his class. I can see where it can lead to health issues, but I'm sure there is an adult goat somewhere with curly ears...?


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Oh my goodness the curly ears! She's adorable! And waddles! (Sorry, I obsess over waddles like crazy. None of my goats have them, can you tell?) She looks like she has nice width between the eyes, lovely head markings, and is nice and chunky  And her big sister is gorgeous too - my fingers are crossed that your little doe follows in her footsteps, and has lots and lots of healthy babies!
> 
> Side note: have you ever seen an adult goat with the curled ears? I know every breeder around here tapes curly ears. One of my wethers had one, and I let it go until he was 3 1/2 months old. I got yelled at by a friend for it... she pulled a bandaid out of nowhere and made me use it to wrap it after his class. I can see where it can lead to health issues, but I'm sure there is an adult goat somewhere with curly ears...?


I've seen quite a few with frostbitten ears but I don't think I've ever seen one with curly ears...


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## janecb

Hmm. I wonder if after a point they straighten on their own? I haven't had any babies with curly ears thus far in my kiddings, so I can't experiment with any. I don't think I've seen any with frostbitten ears, either... although I don't get any snow in my area, and it rarely reaches freezing or below.


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## janecb

My baby doe out of Addie. She's in a bit of a funky growth stage right now, but I LOVE her coloring and lines, so I'm willing to give her time to develop. I should probably stop keeping babies with bellybands... it'll come back to haunt me when all of my babies have horrendous mismarks...


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## bbpygmy

I like her, but I like her sister even more


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## janecb

She has a caramel brother... Do you mean him? She's actually my first baby doe out Addie


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## janecb

This is her brother. He's a bottle baby wether (to be)


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## bbpygmy

Oh actually I meant the black agouti you posted on Facebook. I thought they were sisters for some reason.






this one, I really like her


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## janecb

That guy is actually my buck from the last page, just his other side 

His bellyband is only on his left, so I'll probably show him backwards so the judges look at him :laugh: His dad is my PGCH, and Achi looks a lot like him, only with stockier legs and a deeper body. He's the first baby buck I've seen out of Hotty (the sire) that is worth keeping a buck, although a ton have been kept bucks unnecessarily. He's a little chunk of muscle. I disbudded him yesterday because his horns were already poking up at just 8 days. His only problem is he thinks he's a lap goat...


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## bbpygmy

Oh...my bad lol he's nice ️


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## bbpygmy

View attachment 93257
here's my little fella  he got Jr/Res Grand buck last weekend!! He's our first rosette winner in our herd name.


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## janecb

Adorable, and congrats on his win!! I'm so jealous of him. He looks like he's growing super well, and I love his masculine coat (some bucks don't have it, or it isn't super nice). Does he have the full dorsal stripe or only a partial one?


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## bbpygmy

I think it may only be a partial dorsal stripe. He's a little bit on smaller side, but his sire is from PGBTJ lines which go back to WWF lines so that would explain him being slower growing. Even so that hasn't affected him. And the structure is what is important to me. The judge even said over the microphone, he may not be the biggest in the class but he has the most muscling throughout.


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## janecb

I know that was a random question about dorsal stripes, I'm just trying to figure out how many have the full stripe. I've only seen 1 or 2 with it... Have you seen any around? 

Tammi (PGBTJ) has some really nice goats. She had a little doe who won grand from the 10-12 month old class, even with a huge white leg. The good thing about slow growers is they usually grow consistently, and stay balanced, which makes them stand out in certain age groups where most goats look a bit funky. Especially since, as you said, they get nice muscling as they grow rather than putting it all on at once. I hate when judges place the class by size, rather than looking at proportion; I've seen a ton of nice, younger goats who were more proportionately muscled that didn't win because there was another, structurally bigger goat.


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## janecb

I just got 4 new does and am super excited! I got some quick pictures. These are the two year olds. They look a bit out of it because they were just unloaded after a 4 hour drive.

Thoughts?


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## bbpygmy

Wow, pretty ️


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## janecb

And these are the three year olds. I originally got them as brood does, but I'm definitely going to show them since they look so nice  

All of them are TANKS. The pictures do them no grace. They're super wide across the top and throughout. A fifth doe is coming in two weeks, but she's nursing a baby. She's a light grey agouti with a big bellyband on her right.


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## bbpygmy

Ooh I like the second one, looks like she's very smoothly blended


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## bbpygmy

The goats out there are definitely a different body style than out here. I only have one with the west coast body style and that's sunshine and that's because she's almost all whirlwind lines.


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## janecb

I love all of them, although the younger girls are still developing :laugh:

My personal favorite is the second doe of the first post. I can't get over her. She isn't very photogenic, though, and I don't think she's ever been shown.

My friend recently got a ton of new goats, so she had to sell some she wasn't planning on selling. She gave me first pick, though. The second doe in the first post, and first in the second are half sisters out of WWF Absolutely Original, and the fourth doe is out of Griffiths A Kings Crown Jewels (both bucks are PGCH/MCH's). The first doe is a granddaughter of Caramel Dude, and the doe coming is another daughter of King.


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## janecb

These girls are almost entirely Whirlwind lines, so that makes sense. They seem a bit taller from what I've noticed, but these girls kind of break the mold. Hopefully I'll get some cute babies out of them this fall


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## janecb

This is Cub, the oldest of the 4. I finally got her to pose... pros and cons in your opinion? Her topline is nicer in person, I just had to take this at a funky angle so she didn't think I had chips or grain. She also needs a show trim.


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## magic

Heavenly Blessings Starlette, 9 months old now  shes a small girl but got a lot of personality to make up for it!


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## magic

Her dam, Heavenly Blessings Starstruck, got Grand champion doe at the Fl State Fair.


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## bbpygmy

One thing that really stands out right away is her lack of muscling from the neck into the shoulders.


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## janecb

6-9 months is the funkiest growth stage - I have a couple of does going through it too. She also looks due for a hoof trim 

However, I agree on the lack of blending and muscling. She could also use a bit more width and muscling throughout. But she's long bodied and proportionate, and square standing. She also looks like she has nice spring of rib, and tight stifles & elbows.


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## magic

yeah I definitely agree that she could use more muscling throughout. Thanks for your replies


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## bbpygmy

Thought I would share... This is our new herd sire! He is coming from Sarah Read of Old Orchard in PA.


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## magic

I love the white ears!


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## janecb

He looks cute. I love that he has the full black mask, and wattles! Does he have any notable goats in his pedigree? (Silly question, I'm sure he does). He looks like he's going to be incredible when he grows up


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## janecb

My baby buck <3


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## bbpygmy

first picture is his pedigree
second picture is his sire 2x Grand Echo Springs Ellis (will probably end up a PGCH) 
Third picture is his dam Old Orchard River Song
Fourth picture is dam's dam MCH/PGCH Old Orchard Shimmer (6 years old in pic)
fifth pic is full blood brother she kept from last year's kidding


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## bbpygmy

These are my little bucklings, in my herd name too  
first one is my 6 month old 2x Reserve Grand, 4x Jr, 1x Res. Jr. champ B & B Pygmies Trivette 
second one is my 2 week old buckling B & B Pygmies Maximum Quality


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## bbpygmy

Spring Vale's Amaretto II got his first Grand at 13 months old


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## janecb

Congrats, he looks really nice! I love dark caramels, and he's very handsome. 

And I'm sorry about your baby buckling - 5 lbs is HUGE, and I'm glad the dam is ok. That can be really rough on them, so I'd keep a close eye on her. Kidding pygmies can be frustrating, and when you're having a bad year, it feels like it can only get worse :hug:


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## bbpygmy

Thanks Jane  I had posted the picture of the kid to show the size, but unfortunately I didn't even think about other people getting upset. Our so called "friends" are posting about me on Facebook publicly now, which kinda made me upset. They could have just PM'd me and I would have removed the post... Sometimes the drama is just too much to handle


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## janecb

Welcome to pygmy goats... 

It's been a bad year all around for baby goats in the pygmy world. Some people don't think about others when they make mean or rude posts, and it's very irritating. But you did all you could, and some years are worse than others. And DON'T give up because people are being rude, or mean.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Welcome to pygmy goats...
> 
> It's been a bad year all around for baby goats in the pygmy world. Some people don't think about others when they make mean or rude posts, and it's very irritating. But you did all you could, and some years are worse than others. And DON'T give up because people are being rude, or mean.


It's just sad that people have to be that way... The worst part is I've only had problems with people who are judges.


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## janecb

I hate to say it, but the judges _are_ generally the problem... I think when they get their license, they get a bit of a superiority complex. I don't understand why people get so caught up in all of it... I mean, it's _goats_. There's honestly no reason or good explanation for all of the fights that happen because of them.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I hate to say it, but the judges _are_ generally the problem... I think when they get their license, they get a bit of a superiority complex. I don't understand why people get so caught up in all of it... I mean, it's _goats_. There's honestly no reason or good explanation for all of the fights that happen because of them.


I think it's really sad that they cause that kinda of stuff... I mean is any new member really going to want to stay with the NPGA with all this drama going on around us? I know a few breeders out this way who are/have already gotten out of Pygmies because of this nonsense. There is a reason the NPGA is in need of new members and having trouble making sanction at many shows, we need to be open to new breeders instead of putting them down. There's no reason to be rude or backstab other people for such petty reasons...That's my rant for the day.


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## janecb

Yup, I totally agree with everything you said. I make sure to pitch joining the NPGA to anyone who buys my goats, and I make sure to talk to new people I see at shows. It's disheartening to see the amount of people getting out of goats. Even over here, we've been losing a lot of bigger breeders due to judges they can't stand anymore. I've started working with more experienced breeders to help welcome new people, but the judges need to calm down and be helpful, not start fights and run the NPGA into the ground.

But to steer this back on topic... the fifth and final new doe I got from a friend. I picked her up at the last show. She's almost 3, and just finished nursing her second set of twins. She's another doe out of PGCH/MCH Griffiths A Kings Crown Jewels.


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## bbpygmy

She's a beauty


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## janecb

This is King. Pictures really don't show how long he is... it's insane.


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## bbpygmy

Wow, I really like him! Seems like you've gotten some really nice goats recently!


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## janecb

I got super lucky about these goats, due to circumstances. I'm so excited about them - 2 are King daughters, 2 are Caramel Dude daughters, and 1 is a Magic daughter (King and Caramel dude are PGCH/MCH, but Magic only has 2 grands. He broke one of his legs right before a show ) 

And I heard a new term for inbreeding - 'locking in the genetics' :lol:

I'm super happy with my herd (finally). For a while, I only had the afterthoughts of my old mentor... but I've actually started doing my own thing, and it feels so much better. Especially when my goats beat his at shows


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I got super lucky about these goats, due to circumstances. I'm so excited about them - 2 are King daughters, 2 are Caramel Dude daughters, and 1 is a Magic daughter (King and Caramel dude are PGCH/MCH, but Magic only has 2 grands. He broke one of his legs right before a show )
> 
> And I heard a new term for inbreeding - 'locking in the genetics' :lol:
> 
> I'm super happy with my herd (finally). For a while, I only had the afterthoughts of my old mentor... but I've actually started doing my own thing, and it feels so much better. Especially when my goats beat his at shows


We also had broke away from our mentor and started doing our own thing... Our goats have done much better after that actually. He is not happy with us since he told us not to buy Dominating Performance...I definitely do NOT regret buying that buck!


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## janecb

I agree - I love Dominating Performance! Has he won any Masters yet?

In my case, my mentor tried to steal Hot Topic, my PGCH buck. I bought Hot Topic from my sister, but when I asked for my mentor's help with the transfer stuff, he crossed my name off and wrote his own. We had a pretty big fight, but I won in the end. And then I got to fight the good fight again, for a goat that he got my mother for Mother's Day (I also won that fight). He avoids me at shows... and badmouths me behind my back. Which is my point and case for judges, who are supposed to represent the NPGA, acting in unethical ways. But it was all for the better - my goat herd is MY goat herd now, and when I show, I'm showing under my herdname, with goats I chose, and with people who will actually talk to me in a pleasant, not fake manner


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## bbpygmy

He has no Master wins yet, but I'm sure he will get some. And good for you breaking away, sounds like he didn't even care about you. I feel that I should make my own decisions with my herd, I don't care what anyone else thinks... if someone else is telling me exactly what to do (don't buy this, don't breed this, don't go to this show ect) than I don't feel that it's even my herd at that point.


----------



## janecb

Exactly. I do, however, take advice from others who have been breeding longer - like 'locking in genetics', or bringing in certain goats for traits they have. I like trying new things, though, and taking funky risks with breedings. I'm really working towards long-bodied goats (old-old body style, not the new-old body style)... even if judges and other people don't like them at first. I enjoy making my own herd. And I'm certain Dominating Performance will get some Masters - he's gorgeous


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## bbpygmy

This doe kid has a brown patch!


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## ksalvagno

Cute!


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## janecb

Hmm. Brown patches are funky - I have a doe with a teeny tiny one, and I like to joke that she's my tri-color goat. I've also seen goats with brown bellybands and legs. Does she have any brown in her pedigree? I'm glad you finally got some babies out of Dominating Performance!


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## janecb

My baby, Pepperoni. I'm about to start conditioning for Convention (upping grain, feed, and grooming/bathing.) I have this guys little sister and cousin, and she looks so similar to him - it's really scary. They have the same dam (and her light grey coloring with a bellyband), and the fathers are half-brothers.


----------



## janecb

And his little brother. He's a bottle baby, and I had him sold before he was born - this guy will most likely be at Convention, so I can finish him up on the bottle. He got his sires coloring - kind of. His sire is a dark caramel, and so is his grandsire, so I don't know where the white came from... but it happened. Color genetics still confuse me.


----------



## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Hmm. Brown patches are funky - I have a doe with a teeny tiny one, and I like to joke that she's my tri-color goat. I've also seen goats with brown bellybands and legs. Does she have any brown in her pedigree? I'm glad you finally got some babies out of Dominating Performance!


Nope no brown in the line... The dam has a tiny brown spot, but it's in a spot where it's not as noticeable. Hopefully it fades a little bit so I can show her  she's gorgeous.


----------



## janecb

Can you not show with brown spots? I know I saw somebody show a doe with a big patch under her armpit/to her shoulder... I'm glad you finally had a good kidding, though. I'll see if I can find a picture of my doe with a spot. She's a brood doe now, but I showed her a few times, and it's pretty obvious if you look at her.


----------



## janecb

You can see it on her right hip; it looks like a funky patch of sunlight. She's had 5 baby does, and none have had it... nor have any of her grandkids. But I showed her when I first got her a couple of years ago, and nobody ever called it out.


----------



## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Can you not show with brown spots? I know I saw somebody show a doe with a big patch under her armpit/to her shoulder... I'm glad you finally had a good kidding, though. I'll see if I can find a picture of my doe with a spot. She's a brood doe now, but I showed her a few times, and it's pretty obvious if you look at her.


I could try it, but we're not used to random markings around here. And with the whole grey/brown thing going on I'm not sure if they'll freak out or not. In my opinion the structure is way more important than the random marking...


----------



## janecb

Exactly on structure, but it would probably be best to let the grey/brown thing settle... If she's really nice, you can always keep her on as a brood doe and show her kids. Just a thought.


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Exactly on structure, but it would probably be best to let the grey/brown thing settle... If she's really nice, you can always keep her on as a brood doe and show her kids. Just a thought.


I'm thinking that's what I might do.


----------



## janecb

Do you have any pictures of the babies? I'm jealous of little babies- I'm breeding right now for fall kids, but I don't have any due between now and the end of August.


----------



## bbpygmy

Here's one


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## janecb

Aww 

Is the boy a grey agouti? They look really really good


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Aww
> 
> Is the boy a grey agouti? They look really really good


Yep the boy is the grey agouti ️


----------



## bbpygmy

love this little girl ️


----------



## chiefdion

which pic is the grey agouti ? the only one i see looks more like black agouti. still just as beautiful. i actually love the black with white head topper. i have one like that but not as dark. he's a handful!!!!
1st pic is our grey agouti, angel.(she's so lovable it's annoying and not a bb)
2nd pic is our ? i guess he's black agouti, elvis?(does the lip thingy and very h*r^y)
3rd is our brown agouti, the brain.(she looks purple)kinda
4th grey with white band,pinky (blue-eyes)dominant one
and is if someone could please critique. thank you 
(not trying to be a know it all,but, just making sure i might be correct)
thank a vet today


----------



## bbpygmy

chiefdion said:


> which pic is the grey agouti ? the only one i see looks more like black agouti. still just as beautiful. i actually love the black with white head topper. i have one like that but not as dark. he's a handful!!!!
> 
> 1st pic is our grey agouti, angel.(she's so lovable it's annoying and not a bb)
> 
> 2nd pic is our ? i guess he's black agouti, elvis?(does the lip thingy and very h*r^y)
> 
> 3rd is our brown agouti, the brain.(she looks purple)kinda
> 
> 4th grey with white band,pinky (blue-eyes)dominant one
> 
> and is if someone could please critique. thank you
> 
> (not trying to be a know it all,but, just making sure i might be correct)
> 
> thank a vet today


The last goat looks to be cross, plus Pygmies don't have blue eyes  it's hard to critique with the angle of those pictures. Try to get down low (to the goats level) when taking the pictures. Also a side view would be great.


----------



## magic

Are pygmies judged more on their structure or muscling? I would think it should be more on structure but it seemed to be more based on muscling at the shows I have been too, just wondering your take on this.


----------



## magic

Also bbpygmy, I saw your article in the pygmy goat memo! so cool!


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## janecb

I agree on your article - it was very nice 

And they're judged on a blend of both. Muscling falls under health and condition/general appearance, but most judges judge based on structure *keyword being most, some just pick the biggest one out there*


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## magic

ok thank you! I was just wondering about that


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## bbpygmy

magic said:


> Also bbpygmy, I saw your article in the pygmy goat memo! so cool!


Thanks guys!


----------



## janecb

This is my baby buck of of Hot Topic from the end of March (3/31/15). His legs are funky from growing, and he was rubbing his head on my mom's legs.


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## magic

nice belly band!


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## bbpygmy

My two week old doeling ️


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## janecb

Pretty - she's really dark! I love her rear angulation, and how square she's standing (from that picture). Who's she out of?


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## bbpygmy

Sire: 1x Grand 2x Res. Grand Spring Vale's Amaretto II 














Dam: Hillside Creek Country Diva


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## janecb

Amaretto is handsome; I love dark caramels 

On a side note, Convention is coming up pretty soon! I'll need some help showing in the youth and open shows, if you're up for it. Most of them are good... except for the younger wethers :lol:


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> Amaretto is handsome; I love dark caramels
> 
> On a side note, Convention is coming up pretty soon! I'll need some help showing in the youth and open shows, if you're up for it. Most of them are good... except for the younger wethers :lol:


I'll show anything you need help showing, even bucks lol


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## janecb

I'm not bringing any bucks. It'll be too hot for my baby buck since he's black, and I only have two older boys, both of which have bum shoulders :/ 

I'm bringing a ton of wethers though :lol:


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## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I'm not bringing any bucks. It'll be too hot for my baby buck since he's black, and I only have two older boys, both of which have bum shoulders :/
> 
> I'm bringing a ton of wethers though :lol:


Well then I'll help you show them


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## janecb

These two are in the same class... they're little monsters about getting attention :laugh:


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## bbpygmy

It was a good weekend


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## janecb

Wow - congrats!


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## janecb

The first two are from my breedings, the second two are some new(er) girls ^-^

Ages go:

8 weeks
10 months (she's from itty bitty Whirlwind lines)
15 months
27 months


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## hunterrandolph9

Here is my pygmy/ Nigerian cross doe. She was bred with another Nigerian/pygmy buck, and had a mix doling with bluish hazel eyes.Do they all look like Nigerian pygmy cross, or is there some other breed in there.


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## janecb

All of them look like nigerian/pygmy crosses to me, although I'm not super good at identifying dairy breeds


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## bbpygmy

It was nice meeting you in person Jane ️ I had a lot of fun at Convention. Hopefully you can find a way to come out to NC next year so then you can show MY goats


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## janecb

Hoping I can make it out as well 

And what do you think of my little guy? He's a pest and kept walking towards me when I was taking pictures...


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## bbpygmy

Been a while since I've posted something on here, so I figured I'd post a picture of my favorite doe


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## JK_Farms

Following ill get pics later!


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## bbpygmy

Bumping this post again. Here's the third runner-up buck in the 2016 National Champion Challenge, MCH PGCH Spring Vale's Amaretto II


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## catharina

Gorgeous!!! I'd love to learn a little about pygmy conformation--their backs look different than dairy goats, right?


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