# Milk tastes bitter/salty...



## NyGoatMom

Okay....so Heidi kidded May 2nd. I just started milking in the mornings about 7-8 days ago. The milk is bitter.Or has an after taste or salty or minerally or something. I am so bummed.

Here's what I *think* it could be....I was adding manna pro loose to their daily grain rations since I had it free choice and Heidi seemed to be losing some hair. Now I think maybe it was too much? Anyway, her hair seems to be growing back but now I am not adding it, I am back to free choice. I have not added minerals for about 4 days, but I can't tell if the milk is better/same or worse.

She has feed hay, (not sure what all is in it but he sells to other people with goats and also horses and cattle) and her grain rations are as follows...

in the morning she gets *3.5 cups* (literal)* of this mixture*: 4c alfalfa 2c dumour pellets and 3c sweet goat 18%

In the afternoon it's as follows: *1.5 c of *: 2 c sweet to 2c alfalfa

So for now a total of 5 cups a day...

Is it too much alfalfa? What could i be doing wrong?? I milk her and put her back into the paddock, (literally like 15 feet away)then i set Bailey up on the stand with her feed, leave her there and come inside the house (about 1/4 acre away, strain the milk into a glass quart jar, put it in an ice bath in the fridge and remove from the ice water later on.

I am so frustrated.I keep them extremely clean, and I milk outdoors...what could I be doing wrong?

I really appreciate any suggestions....I just want to get some sweet milk!!


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## nchen7

this is very interesting...i'm curious to see what is said about this topic.


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## NyGoatMom

Actually, I just tasted it again and it seems more like a bitter after taste....not really salty, but sourish bitter?? Anyway, I am completely flustered.....her udder is not hard and hot and everything about her seems fine....just the bad taste to the milk...my husband will drink it but he would also drink a glass of milk that sat out for 12 hours  so he's no help!

The kids think bitter/minerally also....Oh, and I should mention...the milk is literally in the pail for about 5 minutes before being strained and put in ice water...


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## Sylvie

It sounds like mastitis...


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## ksalvagno

I would test her for mastitis just in case.

Also if she recently kidded, it could be colostrum. It can take a good 2 weeks to get out of the system.


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## NyGoatMom

Will do.....and let you know


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## ThreeHavens

Could be mastitis, could also be copper deficiency, which makes for a definate bitter taste. I would give the minerals free-choice and look into a bolus.


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## NyGoatMom

Ok, I just did the dish soap test with this am's milk....it is not turning slimy...


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## nchen7

ThreeHavens said:


> Could be mastitis, could also be copper deficiency, which makes for a definate bitter taste. I would give the minerals free-choice and look into a bolus.


How long would the bolus take to kick in and improve the taste of milk? my girl's milk also has a little bitter aftertaste, but I usually make cheese or kefir out of it so I can't tell. the raw milk is definitely not as sweet as some other people here describe goat milk to be.


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## NyGoatMom

ThreeHavens said:


> Could be mastitis, could also be copper deficiency, which makes for a definate bitter taste. I would give the minerals free-choice and look into a bolus.


Ok, now copper deficiency could be...isn't that what makes black goats turn rusty colored? I was thinking of doing that as one of the doelings is black and is turning red on her back end...

If I do the copper bolus, how long before I should see improvement?


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## NyGoatMom

nchen7 said:


> How long would the bolus take to kick in and improve the taste of milk? my girl's milk also has a little bitter aftertaste, but I usually make cheese or kefir out of it so I can't tell. the raw milk is definitely not as sweet as some other people here describe goat milk to be.


Lol...we posted at the same time


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## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> I would test her for mastitis just in case.
> 
> Also if she recently kidded, it could be colostrum. It can take a good 2 weeks to get out of the system.


Karen, she kidded May 2nd...


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## nchen7

my girl is almost completely rusty (she's SUPPOSED to be black), and fish tail, pale without being wormy. bolus is coming this weekend! 

you know....I find many of these goat discussions always turn into a discussion about copper...


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## NyGoatMom

Lol...yeah it seems so! I am so afraid to OD them, that's why the hesitation....I hope someone can tell me how long it would be for an improvement in the milk! If that's what it is anyway.....


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## OwnedByTheGoats

I have the same thing going on with my doe. Has she gone through any stress?


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## NyGoatMom

OwnedByTheGoats said:


> I have the same thing going on with my doe. Has she gone through any stress?


Nope....not that I know of. Nothing has changed...I know that the family before me was drinking her milk, but when i think about it, they were giving her straight sweet feed and hay. Maybe the alfalfa pellets I use? Or the copper deficiency issue?

I just did the dish soap test and it wasn't slimy....


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## ksalvagno

I would try removing the alfalfa pellets and copper bolus her. I really have no idea how long milk would take to improve with copper but I would think you would see a difference fairly quickly with removing the alfalfa pellets.


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## Gertie

I am having the exact same problem only my milk is tasting goaty after 2 or 3 days in the refrigerator. I never had that happen last year. My girl has shed A LOT of hair too. Now it's way thin. She just doesn't seem to feel well. She is LaMancha and white so I don't see any copper coloring. I am also feeding Dumor pellets, Alfalfa pellets and Mana Pro minerals. I too am so afraid of killing them giving them something the might not need. Funny, when I fed them last night I put the loose mineral in my hand so they would lick it up. They sure did. Maybe I just shot myself in the foot!!!


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## ksalvagno

I have heard before that alfalfa pellets can make the milk taste bad. I can't remember where but I remember someone having the same problem and it ended up being the alfalfa pellets. I don't feed alfalfa pellets because none of my girls like them and absolutely refuse to eat them.


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## NyGoatMom

Ok, I'm gonna cut back on the pellets and use grain instead...I'll have to do a slow switch.

How come some people can free choice the alfalfa and their milk is ok?? I am so confused!


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## NyGoatMom

Gertie said:


> I am having the exact same problem only my milk is tasting goaty after 2 or 3 days in the refrigerator. I never had that happen last year. My girl has shed A LOT of hair too. Now it's way thin. She just doesn't seem to feel well. She is LaMancha and white so I don't see any copper coloring. I am also feeding Dumor pellets, Alfalfa pellets and Mana Pro minerals. I too am so afraid of killing them giving them something the might not need. Funny, when I fed them last night I put the loose mineral in my hand so they would lick it up. They sure did. Maybe I just shot myself in the foot!!!


What are you doing different than last year?


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## NyGoatMom

I'm wondering though, How will they get enough calcium without the alfalfa? I thought they needed it for lactating?

Sorry for all the newbie issues


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## woffinden

Sounds like a little colostrum residue. I usually wait a couple weeks to drink the milk, because we can definitely taste it


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## Gertie

NyGoatMom, the only thing I'm doing different this year is feeding the Alfalfa pellets..................I too thought they needed it for the calcium, which I think they do but maybe not as much as I'm feeding. I think I'm going to do the same as you, back down on the Alfalfa and feed more grain.


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## ksalvagno

If your grain has the right ratio, you should be ok. If you can find alfalfa hay or alfalfa/grass mix hay, that would be good. Alfalfa hay doesn't seem to give the same problem as alfalfa pellets.


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## nchen7

ksalvagno said:


> Alfalfa hay doesn't seem to give the same problem as alfalfa pellets.


could it be because the mill may add something to the pellets to keep it together? i don't know how they get a dry grass to look like pellets without doing something else to it.....


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## ThreeHavens

My goats get no grain, only alfalfa pellets. Their milk is fine. I would think after the bolus you should see a difference.


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## NyGoatMom

Well guys, I'm gonna do both I think, but first I am cutting back on the alfalfa pellets while waiting for the copasure to come, so I'll let you know if I see a difference with that.


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## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> If your grain has the right ratio, you should be ok. If you can find alfalfa hay or alfalfa/grass mix hay, that would be good. Alfalfa hay doesn't seem to give the same problem as alfalfa pellets.


What would the right ratio be?


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## NyGoatMom

Gertie said:


> NyGoatMom, the only thing I'm doing different this year is feeding the Alfalfa pellets..................I too thought they needed it for the calcium, which I think they do but maybe not as much as I'm feeding. I think I'm going to do the same as you, back down on the Alfalfa and feed more grain.


Interesting....let me know how it goes for you. How are you gonna switch it up? I started today by replacing one c of the alfalfa with more sweet. I do remember the previous owner used ONLY sweet when milking.....hmmmm....


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## NyGoatMom

woffinden said:


> Sounds like a little colostrum residue. I usually wait a couple weeks to drink the milk, because we can definitely taste it


She kidded May 2nd....wouldn't that be too long?


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## ksalvagno

If she kidded on May 2, then colostrum in the milk shouldn't be a factor. It should be long gone by now.


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## Gertie

I just started cutting back on the alfalfa pellets and added more grain. I think I'm going to use the copper bolus too. I also think I am going to treat for mites even though it's just that one Doe who seems to have the problem with hair & weight loss. Just want to cover my bases. That doesn't explain all the goats having goatie tasting milk. I'm also going to reworm with "horse safeguard" but I don't know how much to give. Hope someone jumps in here to say. Oh, the other thing is I've been feeding the Mana Pro minerals by hand the last few days to make sure they are getting the right amount. WOW!! they are licking probably 2 ozs out of my hand so I'm wondering if they were even getting enough minerals!! We are setting up a feeder to feed free choice minerals and baking soda. Gee, can they over dose on minerals? I was shocked how much they lapped down and wanted more but I didn't dare give them more than the 2 ozs!


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## ksalvagno

Safeguard is 1cc per 10 lbs with liquid and 3 times the horse dosage for the paste. I like the liquid best since it is easier to dose them properly.

Definitely put out minerals free choice. They will go crazy for a while but then it subsides. I don't bother with free choice baking soda.


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## Gertie

Thanks ksalvagno. I did get the paste so it would be 3 cc per 10 lbs? I didn't even see the liquid. I would much prefer that too. Glad to hear about the minerals. I was so afraid they were getting way too much. Doesn't that upset the balance in their rumen though if they eat a lot of it? I had given her ivermec plus 2 times in a row since she kidded. IF she had mites wouldn't that have taken care of it? She is a little itchy but I don't see a thing on her and the other goats who are with her aren't itchy. Ahhhhhhhhhh, to figure it all out!!


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## ksalvagno

Paste is 3 times the horse dosage. So if you have a 100lb goat, you would give 300 lbs worth of paste.

No, the minerals don't upset the balance. 

When you gave the Ivomec Plus, did you inject? For mites you need to inject it. She could just have itchy skin too. You could give her something like wheat germ oil to help with coat and skin.


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## Sensible

There are several possible causes of off flavor milk, some of which haven't been discussed here yet. 
You are ruling out diet. Don't forget any browse or pasture that she is expose to also. Some plants can cause the problem also.
Medications.
Colostrum residue is ruled out too. Did I miss where you tested for mastitis?

Some individual goats are known to produce off flavor milk with no other causes. It's uncommon, but it happens. Toggs were known to be the most likey breed to have this happen. It occurs with cows too. Given this doe's history it seems that this is probably ruled out as well.

Other than diet, probably the most common reason for off flavor milk is improper handling. In my experience, I have seen people who insist up and down that their milk handling procedures were not the cause, yet they were not even aware of what proper handling procedures are. Hint: simply milking into an apparently clean container and getting the milk strained and into the fridge quickly is not always enough. The details could be another whole thread in themselves (and probably have). 

Someone mentioned the supposed sweet taste of goat milk. Yes, sweet, but not in a sugary sort of way. It should be sweet tasting, just as a glass of fresh cow's milk or cream is also subtle and "sweet" tasting. If handled correctly, there should be almost no difference in taste between goat milk and whole cow's milk from the supermarket. When I first started with goats years ago, my suburban raised family would refuse to drink the milk. I started putting it in whole milk containers, and they never ever mentioned knowing the difference.


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## FarmerJen

Sensible said:


> When I first started with goats years ago, my suburban raised family would refuse to drink the milk. I started putting it in whole milk containers, and they never ever mentioned knowing the difference.


BRILLIANT!! I might have to do this! LOL My 17yr old keeps telling me "Mom, we need milk". To which my reply is "um, there's a gallon and a half in the fridge". LOL She wants store milk. I'm totally gonna try this and see if she says anything!!! HAHA!

I dont know why I didn't think about it before! I served veggie dogs to her and her friends the other day, and since I cooked them in a separate pan from mine, nobody said a word. HAHA!


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## Sensible

Just be aware that reuse of plastic containers can cantribute to or be a cause of off flavor milk, no matter how well rinsed or cleaned. I would only reuse a container once or twice, so unfortunately it required still buying milk from the store. Today I would switch to using glass bottled cow milk from a local dairy, and soon just reuse their glass bottles.


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## janeen128

If it is a copper deficiency the copper bolus actually works rather quickly. I have a doe that has uneven toes in the front, and the lady helping me with her stated she most likely had a copper deficiency. So I ordered the copper bolus, and within 4 days went to do her hooves, and they were already a lot better, I still have a few weeks of working on them to get them to where she can walk normally but at least her her toes were firmer and they had a lot more color to them. So if that is the problem with your milk, then you should notice a difference within days....


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## Gertie

ksalvagno, I knew that. Don't know what I was thinking. Guess I wasn't!! LOL Sensible, I think I have been handling my milk well. I haven't always had goatie flavor. It happened all of a sudden without a change in my milk handing. I have always been really careful and clean. I'm a bit of a freak that way, I like clean. The last couple of days I have feed less alfalfa pellets and made sure they are getting their minerals by hand feeding it to them. It seems ok again. I sure hope it stays that way. ( ; How are you doing NyGoatMom?


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## NyGoatMom

Sensible said:


> There are several possible causes of off flavor milk, some of which haven't been discussed here yet.
> You are ruling out diet. Don't forget any browse or pasture that she is expose to also. Some plants can cause the problem also.
> Medications.
> Colostrum residue is ruled out too. Did I miss where you tested for mastitis?
> 
> Some individual goats are known to produce off flavor milk with no other causes. It's uncommon, but it happens. Toggs were known to be the most likey breed to have this happen. It occurs with cows too. Given this doe's history it seems that this is probably ruled out as well.
> 
> Other than diet, probably the most common reason for off flavor milk is improper handling. In my experience, I have seen people who insist up and down that their milk handling procedures were not the cause, yet they were not even aware of what proper handling procedures are. Hint: simply milking into an apparently clean container and getting the milk strained and into the fridge quickly is not always enough. The details could be another whole thread in themselves (and probably have).
> 
> Someone mentioned the supposed sweet taste of goat milk. Yes, sweet, but not in a sugary sort of way. It should be sweet tasting, just as a glass of fresh cow's milk or cream is also subtle and "sweet" tasting. If handled correctly, there should be almost no difference in taste between goat milk and whole cow's milk from the supermarket. When I first started with goats years ago, my suburban raised family would refuse to drink the milk. I started putting it in whole milk containers, and they never ever mentioned knowing the difference.


The milking pail is seamless stainless steel,the jars are glass. I sterilize with bleach water.

I have not been giving her browse since it requires me to cut it down and it has been raining almost all day every day here...

She is not on meds and her mastitis test was neg.(homemade test) Her previous owner was drinking her milk for 3 years before me, and seemed honest. Heidi is ADGA registered and has stars in her line, so I am hoping that it "just being her" is not the case

The milk is actually ok except for the bitter after taste..


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## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> If it is a copper deficiency the copper bolus actually works rather quickly. I have a doe that has uneven toes in the front, and the lady helping me with her stated she most likely had a copper deficiency. So I ordered the copper bolus, and within 4 days went to do her hooves, and they were already a lot better, I still have a few weeks of working on them to get them to where she can walk normally but at least her her toes were firmer and they had a lot more color to them. So if that is the problem with your milk, then you should notice a difference within days....


Thanks Janeen
I am so nervous to give her the copper, but her daughter is a black goat and is only roughly 6 weeks and I am seeing red leaking through...


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## NyGoatMom

Gertie said:


> ksalvagno, I knew that. Don't know what I was thinking. Guess I wasn't!! LOL Sensible, I think I have been handling my milk well. I haven't always had goatie flavor. It happened all of a sudden without a change in my milk handing. I have always been really careful and clean. I'm a bit of a freak that way, I like clean. The last couple of days I have feed less alfalfa pellets and made sure they are getting their minerals by hand feeding it to them. It seems ok again. I sure hope it stays that way. ( ; How are you doing NyGoatMom?


Unfortunately, I am still getting a bitter after taste. However, I am cutting the alfalfa back. The only problem is we had to get more hay and it's from a diff farm than what she was on. This stuff is this years first cut and they LOVE it....lol...they have been pigging out on it. In fact, the first day I put that in their manger, the next morning they didn't finish their grain  I have NEVER seen that! So, I won't know for sure if it's that or something he had in his field 

Very disheartening...

So all you did really was cut the alfalfa? How much are you giving and to what size goat?


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## Gertie

I have LaMancha's so full size. I am giving them about a cup full now instead of 2 1/2 cups. The other thing is I am feeding the Mana Pro mineral to them out of my hand to make sure they are getting enough. I really don't know what went on there for a bit to make their milk goatie tasting. Their pasture is grass and we feed timothy hay. I would still like to see more weight on my one doe. They certainly have enough grain because they don't eat all I'm offering.


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## NyGoatMom

Wow, they don't finish it? Mine didn't the ONE day after the new cutting hay, but were right back on track that night 

I have cut the alfalfa back to two cups (mixed with 10 cups grain) for all 3 girls. Heidi gets 5 cups, Bailey gets 5 cups and Daisy only gets 2 since she is not pregnant or lactating. So the alfalfa is almost non existent right now...hoping none gets scours from the change.

I was feeding Manna Pro on the feed at 1/2 gram a head a day. I would put a bit of water on the grain to make it stick.The boys still get it like that since my wether won't eat it.He looks much better now. I stopped doing it for the girls because I thought maybe it was too much mineral making her milk off. I have it out free choice though. I am so nervous about doing the copasure....but I may start one just one in case it is too much...there is so much conflicting info out there...


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## emmapal

Have you read that copper oxide is easy to overdose? I have read it us extremely difficult, that only copper sulf like used in pools is easy to overdose (put into their water).

Would love to read what you have heard as we are researching these same ussues ourselves right now. Thanks!


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## NyGoatMom

Well, I am truly flustered right now....I have almost all but eliminated the alfalfa pellets and her milk is still bitter. In fact, it seems a slight bit more bitter. The hay they are on now is first cut this year, and they love it.

I am going to give her the copasure when I get it. I am nervous to do so but I,m running out of options...I am trying to just follow advice from here, and a lot of paople have said to bolus, so that's what I'm gonna do...


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## lottsagoats

It could be weeds in the hay or her yard that is making the milk taste. Some cases of sub-clinical mastitis don't always show up in the CMT type tests either. 

She shouldn't still have colostrum still in her milk, she kidded the beginning of last month?

If it were me, I'd take a clean sample of her milk and have it tested for bacteria. I would also look thru the hay to see what is in there. When my goats get a lot of pine, fir or spruce branches, the milk has a pine-y taste to it.

Has she been wormed? Sometimes a load of worms will cause the milk to taste off.

My goats get a huge amount of alfalfa pellets and the milk is nice and sweet.


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Well, I am truly flustered right now....I have almost all but eliminated the alfalfa pellets and her milk is still bitter. In fact, it seems a slight bit more bitter. The hay they are on now is first cut this year, and they love it.
> 
> I am going to give her the copasure when I get it. I am nervous to do so but I,m running out of options...I am trying to just follow advice from here, and a lot of paople have said to bolus, so that's what I'm gonna do...


I hope the copper bolus works. I think it would be hard to overdose on copper. Since I really don't know what my big girls weigh, I just gave them 1 of the 4g's copasture stuff. It is supposed to be 100-200 lbs, I assume they are around 150. I also give minerals as usual and that has copper too, but I only add it in their feed twice a week and offer it the other times, otherwise they wouldn't get any minerals, since I had it out for them free choice, they never touched it in the whole 2 months I had it out... Good luck to you!! I hope this is it. You will know within days....


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## cybercat

I would stop the Dumor feed it is real low quality from Purnia. It is know in the other animals like chickens to cause problems. I am betting that is where you are getting that funky tast and why the goats are not the right color. It is made just for TSC and I have heard from someone that visited the plant it is the left over and reject that Purina will not put in the their Named brands.

Also a vit B shot might be in order here beside the bolus.


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## janeen128

cybercat said:


> I would stop the Dumor feed it is real low quality from Purnia. It is know in the other animals like chickens to cause problems. I am betting that is where you are getting that funky tast and why the goats are not the right color. It is made just for TSC and I have heard from someone that visited the plant it is the left over and reject that Purina will not put in the their Named brands.
> 
> Also a vit B shot might be in order here beside the bolus.


Just checking, but is Noble goat good quality? It is a purina brand... That's what I feed my clan.


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## NyGoatMom

lottsagoats said:


> It could be weeds in the hay or her yard that is making the milk taste. Some cases of sub-clinical mastitis don't always show up in the CMT type tests either.
> 
> She shouldn't still have colostrum still in her milk, she kidded the beginning of last month?
> 
> If it were me, I'd take a clean sample of her milk and have it tested for bacteria. I would also look thru the hay to see what is in there. When my goats get a lot of pine, fir or spruce branches, the milk has a pine-y taste to it.
> 
> Has she been wormed? Sometimes a load of worms will cause the milk to taste off.
> 
> My goats get a huge amount of alfalfa pellets and the milk is nice and sweet.


Thanks for the suggestions....I will be asking my hay provider for a copy of her Cornell analysis of her fields. As for looking through the hay, I have no idea what I am looking FOR....lol...I am terrible with plants.

What is best to use on a lactating doe for worms? I have Valbazen, Safeguard and I think I have enough Ivermectin left for one dose...


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## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> I hope the copper bolus works. I think it would be hard to overdose on copper. Since I really don't know what my big girls weigh, I just gave them 1 of the 4g's copasture stuff. It is supposed to be 100-200 lbs, I assume they are around 150. I also give minerals as usual and that has copper too, but I only add it in their feed twice a week and offer it the other times, otherwise they wouldn't get any minerals, since I had it out for them free choice, they never touched it in the whole 2 months I had it out... Good luck to you!! I hope this is it. You will know within days....


Thanks, I feel so lost here  I am so frustrated with trying to figure this out! I'm gonna go ahead and copper bolus them when it comes....it should be here tomorrow, I hope.


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## NyGoatMom

cybercat said:


> I would stop the Dumor feed it is real low quality from Purnia. It is know in the other animals like chickens to cause problems.  I am betting that is where you are getting that funky tast and why the goats are not the right color. It is made just for TSC and I have heard from someone that visited the plant it is the left over and reject that Purina will not put in the their Named brands.
> 
> Also a vit B shot might be in order here beside the bolus.


I did give her a b-complex shot but it was only 3 cc's (that's the syringe size my DD brought out)


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## NyGoatMom

BTW, we do have hard water. I know we have a blue/green staining that happens. Any ideas what that is?


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Thanks for the suggestions....I will be asking my hay provider for a copy of her Cornell analysis of her fields. As for looking through the hay, I have no idea what I am looking FOR....lol...I am terrible with plants.
> 
> What is best to use on a lactating doe for worms? I have Valbazen, Safeguard and I think I have enough Ivermectin left for one dose...


I use a pellet dewormer for my does, it's called positive pellets. It is safe for pregnant and lactating does. That is the only one I found safe, the others state do not give to pregnant or lactating does. I think it's made by pro manna...


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## NyGoatMom

Where do you get it? At TSC?


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## NyGoatMom

Oh, and tonight I cut out the Dumour feed. I only was using 3 cups a day out of 12, and today's milk (this morning) was even worse. I just had the hubby taste it and he noticed it tonight. (he hadn't previously) He thinks it's kinda metallic-y, but my son and I say bitter....either way, it's not sweet


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Where do you get it? At TSC?


I get it at my feed store. I know Jeffers sells it too, but your local feed store should have it. It comes in a 10 lb bag.


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## ksalvagno

How long has she been on the 1st cut hay? Is that when the bitterness started?


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## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> How long has she been on the 1st cut hay? Is that when the bitterness started?


Just a few days~ it was bitter before but then it seemed to get worse. The two changes were the hay(before she was on a different hay from a different farm but it was bitter then too.That hay was older. Oh, and the amount of sweet feed went up to replace the alfalfa pellets.

Today I put out free-choice baking soda and she was eating it...
She also seems to be losing hair again  I wonder if I should go back to mixing the manna pro in with the grains?

Also, can sweet feed make it bitter? Seems when I started upping that it got worse. We use Poulin Grains Sweet Goat 18%....


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## NyGoatMom

I have been researching online. What do you think of baking yeast? I read a site that said 1 teaspoon 2 x a day for 7 days along with b-complex and a cobalt lick...but Manna Pro has cobalt, so....???


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## NyGoatMom

I also have eliminated the dumour...they were not getting much anyway.So now it's 2 cups alfalfa to 10 cups sweet for all 3 girls combined daily.Heidi gets 5 cups of this.

The milk seemed to increase in bitterness when two things happened...1. we got the first cut hay but AT THE SAME TIME I was increasing the sweet feed. It has been "off" since we started milking  It just is more "off" now...

As regards to Heidi losing hair again; It was getting better when I started adding the minerals to her feed but then we thought it was that which might be tainting the milk, so i stopped and left it free-choice.

I am still awaiting the copasure. But I am going to have the free choice baking soda (since she was eating it) and the minerals, free-choice 1st cut grassy hay, and her grain.


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## ksalvagno

Minerals should not taint milk at all. I would be putting out the minerals free choice. Their problem may be a bit of mineral deficiency. The other thing you can add is kelp free choice. I have minerals and kelp out free choice and my milk has always been very good tasting.

Sounds like some of the problem may be the hay. I use an alfalfa/grass mix hay but have been buying the same hay from the same hay guy for years.

I feed Kalmbach Game Plan All Natural Milk & Meat Pellet (6016GT) right now but previously was feeding ADM Dairy Goat Power. Both are pelleted feeds. First I was feeding the texturized with the molasses and didn't seem to have a problem with that either but I just prefer the pelleted. I do also sprout oats and give the girls half sprouted oats and half pelleted feed.

I only add stuff like calf manna and shredded beet pulp if my girls are underweight and I can't get the weight up with an increase in current feed. My girls refuse to eat alfalfa pellets so I don't bother with it anymore.


----------



## NyGoatMom

The minerals are free choice now...I WAS giving them 1/2 gram each every day on their grain before.I gave her 6 cc's of B-complex tonight, and she has been at the baking soda.
I am waiting on a copy of the hay analysis from my usual provider.

I agree she has some sort of deficiency, what is the most common for hair loss?


----------



## NyGoatMom

Here is a link to the sweet feed I use...
http://www.poulingrain.com/product_details.php?product_id=82&category_id=4

Do you think it'd be too much copper if I bolus too? She does eat about 4 cups a day of this...


----------



## Gertie

I have to say my milk returned to normal when I started hand feeding the Mana Pro minerals instead of putting it on their grain. We do plan to feed it free choice. And my one Doe that was loosing hair has stopped. I think she seems to be gaining a little also. She was thin and not coming back to normal weight after kidding. I sure hope you find out what the problem is. It must be so frustrating for you. I know these are your first goats and you waited awhile to have the milk. ) : so sorry this has happened. Don't give up though. You'll figure it out and it will be well worth it! I LOVE my Goaties!!


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## ksalvagno

Zinc deficiency could cause hair loss. There is never enough copper in feed. The copper wire particles don't absorb super well like copper sulfate.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Gertie said:


> I have to say my milk returned to normal when I started hand feeding the Mana Pro minerals instead of putting it on their grain. We do plan to feed it free choice. And my one Doe that was loosing hair has stopped. I think she seems to be gaining a little also. She was thin and not coming back to normal weight after kidding. I sure hope you find out what the problem is. It must be so frustrating for you. I know these are your first goats and you waited awhile to have the milk. ) : so sorry this has happened. Don't give up though. You'll figure it out and it will be well worth it! I LOVE my Goaties!!


Gertie~ I cannot tell you how discouraged I am and your reply was much needed! THANK YOU  You have a good memory! I have had goats for 15 months with no milk....and counting 

I am deworming her tonight with Valbazen in case she has a parasite. A woman I talk with in the area who raises Nubians and has for almost 40 years said it could be a parasite.

It has not improved since taking the mineral off the feed and keeping it free choice so I may just add it back again....not sure about that yet. Wouldn't she eat it if she needed it and it was right there?

Still waiting on the copasure to get here....I may also give her some vitamin E/Sel gel. Last she had was when she kidded 6 weeks ago...what do you think?


----------



## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> Zinc deficiency could cause hair loss. There is never enough copper in feed. The copper wire particles don't absorb super well like copper sulfate.


I think you are right, it started improving when I was "forcing" the Manna Pro by wetting the feed and making it stick, then I stopped and now she is losing hair again...The copasure I am getting is specifically for goats, it tells you how many grams in each pill and for how many lbs. Is that the sulfate or is it something different?

Is it safe to give copasure and "force" minerals? Or should I just leave them free choice and wait for the copasure to get here?


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## NyGoatMom

And how old for the kids to get copasure?


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## janeen128

I still put pro manna minerals in their grain, even after I copper bolused them. Mine don't eat it free choice. I do offer it to them twice a day by hand and then add it in their grain 2 times a week.


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> And how old for the kids to get copasure?


They have to be 25 lbs or over that to copper bolus the kids. I haven't done my buckling yet, he isn't quite there.... I still have to do my new kinder doe, thanks for the reminder


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## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> They have to be 25 lbs or over that to copper bolus the kids. I haven't done my buckling yet, he isn't quite there.... I still have to do my new kinder doe, thanks for the reminder


Hehehe....np! Ok, 25 lbs it is. I need to hang up my scale and make a sling...sigh, always something to do!


----------



## ksalvagno

Copasure is copper wire particles, not sulfate. There should be no problem at all giving it to them. I would think if you left the minerals out free choice that they would eat them. I have never had a problem with my girls eating their minerals. Kelp is another great source of minerals to put out too.

People are also seeing good results with Replamin. It is an oral supplement. There is a thread on here about it. http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/multi-min-148544/

I know the Selenium gel doesn't absorb as well as BoSe so you probably could do that again. That would be up to you. I have never used the gel before.


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## NyGoatMom

I may just do that sel gel again....thanks for the link, I'll be checking that stuff out.
AS for the minerals. they sometimes eat the heck out of them, and sometimes ignore but they do use it on their own, just maybe not as much as they should?

So, here's what I did tonight. I took Heidi's temp and it was 103.0.I am going to keep checking it daily not only to get a baseline for her but I thought I heard a little raspiness in her breathing. Not sure though, so I am watching her for changes in behavior too.
I gave her Valbazen at 1cc per 25lbs and another 6cc's B-Complex. But now it's a week before I can taste test again, so we'll see.


----------



## ksalvagno

That is what goats usually do with free choice minerals. They don't eat a steady portion daily. Some days they eat more, some days less. That is normal. Basically they should get what they need that way.


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## NyGoatMom

Karen, I'll tell you....I thought I was doing pretty well. I had a crisis with Heidi when we first got her,almost lost her but thanks to this site, I was able to pull her through. I had 2 births with 4 beautiful, healthy doelings this year, and no problems.
Before kidding I had beautiful,shiny,healthily "stocky" goats....now they aren't up to "snuff"... I'd like to see a tad more weight on them, and see Heidi with all her hair back and producing nice,sweet, fresh milk.


Guess they had to get me somehow :/ and are they ever getting me good.  It's gonna seem like forever before I can stop buying cow's milk.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Well copasure came today. I will be giving it tomorrow. I will be tasting the milk again next wednesday, so I will update then. I am also going to take a pic of Heidi now, and after the bolus each week.

Hope I can post some good news!


----------



## cybercat

janeen128 said:


> Just checking, but is Noble goat good quality? It is a purina brand... That's what I feed my clan.


I do not know the Noble brand as it is not sold here. If you are not having problems with it then just keep feeding it.

I do know that Dunmor causes alot of waste i.e. poop. It also has a higher salt amount in it. Many do not like to give sweet feed for many reasons. You might want to do a search on sweet feed and see what is said about it.


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## janeen128

cybercat said:


> I do not know the Noble brand as it is not sold here. If you are not having problems with it then just keep feeding it.
> 
> I do know that Dunmor causes alot of waste i.e. poop. It also has a higher salt amount in it. Many do not like to give sweet feed for many reasons. You might want to do a search on sweet feed and see what is said about it.


Thanks!! I looked at comparisons, and it is one if the better I ones out there I do give them a little sweet feed with the noble since they tend to thumb their noses at me if I just give them the noble. Yep, can you say " spoiled rotten"  I do buy the sweet feed with extra minerals etc, and my boys eat it as well

I've actually never heard of Dunmor, I don't think I'll be looking for it though


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## NyGoatMom

Ok, here's how I did the copasure....I don't have a bolus gun so i opened the pills and fed to them in molasses. Heidi readily ate it with minimal chewing since the rods were so small.
Daisy Mae however, decided it was "yucky" and too "sticky" to eat that way so we added it to her grain  Both got the majority of the rods. How soon to see the results or know if it is too much? Heidi got 1 full capsule and Daisy Mae got a little less than half a capsule.

I am holding off on the other 3 to see how this works.


----------



## ksalvagno

It takes a while to see improvement from the copper bolus. The chance of it being too much are so slim. I wouldn't hold off on the others if they need it.


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## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> It takes a while to see improvement from the copper bolus. The chance of it being too much are so slim. I wouldn't hold off on the others if they need it.


Really? I am a bit worried, I guess from all the hype of over dosing 

No one looks really bad, in fact the boys look really good. But those guys aren't lactating  I put the manna pro right on their feed with a little water because Booker won't eat any otherwise. He looks really good now 

I do plan on giving some to Bailey, however but I'll give her some when I can do the kids. They are still too small.

Thanks for all your help, I am so glad you guys are here!


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## Mrndly

hi I just read this thread.

I had the same question when I started milking my first doe. She was about 2 weeks from kidding so I waited another week and was very careful to cool the milk quickly. 
now her milk tastes fine .

I think it was more getting the milk cooled down fast that helped the most


----------



## NyGoatMom

Mrndly said:


> hi I just read this thread.
> 
> I had the same question when I started milking my first doe. She was about 2 weeks from kidding so I waited another week and was very careful to cool the milk quickly.
> now her milk tastes fine .
> 
> I think it was more getting the milk cooled down fast that helped the most


Thanks....Heidi kidded over a month ago,and her milk goes into the pail, then literally 5 minutes later into glass quart jars in an ice bath in the fridge so I think it is either mineral/vitamin related or feed...just trying to figure out which!


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## janeen128

Well apparently the copper bolus does take a few weeks Sorry, I miss spoke on that. My doe is pretty deficient and the lady that helped me with them today, recommended another 2mgs, I have them so I gave it to her. I didn't know if they had a reddish color to them that actually means they are deficient.... Hmmm, my girl is pretty red compared to the rest of the clan... Wow, one thing is for sure I learn new things every day with goats.


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## NyGoatMom

I agree! Constant learning....

Well, as a quick update..I can't try the milk until Thursday BUT....after the copper bolus, I see hair growing in in spots it was missing....maybe that did the trick for the hair loss? I cannot wait to try her milk again. If it's still bitter, I'll switch hay and see if that helps.


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## NyGoatMom

Tomorrow's the day! Oh man, I hope it's better!

Just a re-cap....She has been copper bolused, dewormed, and Dumour has been eliminated from the equation. She is still on 1st cut this year's hay from a local farmer. Her grain is mixed as so..

4 cups alfalfa (yes, I put more back in because it got more bitter when I cut it back) to 10 cups Poulin Grains Sweet Goat 18%. She gets 4.5 cups in the am and 2 cups in the pm. She still has twin doelings all day long who are separated at night....

She has 24/7 baking soda and MP Loose Minerals along with 24/7 hay. No browse for now...


----------



## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Tomorrow's the day! Oh man, I hope it's better!
> 
> Just a re-cap....She has been copper bolused, dewormed, and Dumour has been eliminated from the equation. She is still on 1st cut this year's hay from a local farmer. Her grain is mixed as so..
> 
> 4 cups alfalfa (yes, I put more back in because it got more bitter when I cut it back) to 10 cups Poulin Grains Sweet Goat 18%. She gets 4.5 cups in the am and 2 cups in the pm. She still has twin doelings all day long who are separated at night....
> 
> She has 24/7 baking soda and MP Loose Minerals along with 24/7 hay. No browse for now...


Good luck!! Can't wait to hear how it goes


----------



## NyGoatMom

Well I wish I could say I was happy, but it still has a bitter taste to it. I'm gonna have to get pics of the hay I think and post them to see if that could be it.

This stinks


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## ksalvagno

I'm not a fan of first cut hay. Have you always had first cut hay?


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## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Well I wish I could say I was happy, but it still has a bitter taste to it. I'm gonna have to get pics of the hay I think and post them to see if that could be it.
> 
> This stinks


Ah, sorry Maybe it is the copper thing and therefore it may take a few weeks. I'm sorry you are going through this...


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## NyGoatMom

ksalvagno said:


> I'm not a fan of first cut hay. Have you always had first cut hay?


No, but I have never tasted her milk other than now, this year. I am hoping it is just feed related.
We have hard water, mostly leaves greenish residue on pipes. Do you think it could be the water? Gosh, I hope not!


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## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> Ah, sorry Maybe it is the copper thing and therefore it may take a few weeks. I'm sorry you are going through this...


Thanks, I am really bummed  I'm going to get pics of the hay tomorrow to post. Maybe someone could tell me if it is something in it.

I e-mailed Poulin Grains, they said they have no meds in the feed, not even AC.


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## NyGoatMom

Still need to get pics of the hay but here is what i am trying next...pine needles. I am giving her a handful a day and going to see if that helps. I got a suggestion to try that for pH balance. If that does not help, I will look at the hay, and cobalt deficiency. Still trying to find a block. Does anyone know where to get cobalt?


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## farmchick897

I just read this entire thread and I'm glad I found it because I'm having the EXACT same problem. First off.. I leased a Saanen goat last year to see if milking and drinking the milk was doable. It was great.. So, I went out and purchased a Saanen doeling from the same farm as the one I leased.. Then I found 2 yearling Lamancha does that I bought along with a 1/2 Lamancha 1/2 Saanen doeling. Fast forward to kidding. Now I have 4 goats in milk.. all have single kids nursing during the day and are separated at night. All goats have been fed the exact same, on pasture (the same pasture used last year for the Saanen I leased), all have been tested for all diseases, all have been given BoSe shots before kidding and copper boluses. I had a fecal test done for egg count and they were all wormed. I feed kelp meal and the Hoeggars natural wormer also once per week in the grain. They have loose minerals. I milk with a machine, which is filtered and put into glass jars and into a ice water bath within 10 minutes of milking. Anyway.. the results are.. We love the pure Saanen's milk, taste just like the one I leased last year. The other 3 have a goaty flavor and a bad aftertaste. WHY?? I have also tried changing feed, I was feeding alfalfa pellets and switched to alfalfa hay. I mix the feed with.. oats, Purina goat chow, black sunflower seeds, I also buy a 18% dairy pellets that I tried adding in or not. Do you think the genetics play a factor in the taste?


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## christinajh

I can't remember if you tried milk from other goats in the herd your doe came from? We have someone here that is known for bad tasting milk, and it is unclear if its the milk handling or something bred into the herd. I have two does from this herd before I knew, but I haven't had milk from them yet. I bred one for June babies, but she missed this go around. It might just be the doe


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## farmchick897

My saanen doe came from a farm where I had leased one of her adults last year, so yes I tasted that milk. My doe wasn't from that doe, but from the same genetics as that herd. The other 3 (that taste off) came from a farm where I did not taste the milk. All 3 of these does have the same Lamancha sire, maybe he has bad genes? I hate to cull because I like them.. so I'm using milk to make soap and feeding to my dogs (they like it). Hopefully I find something to change the taste!


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## NyGoatMom

farmchik897~ I am beginning to consider that my hard water is attributing. I plan on trying store bought water for a few days to see if it improves.
Is your water hard?

I am actually going to try milking my other lactating doe this morning ( I have never tried her milk) to see if hers has the same flavor. I don't milk her because she has tiny,two-holed teats and is a PITA to try milking. We are using her for meat babies, so I decided not to milk her.


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## NyGoatMom

christinajh said:


> I can't remember if you tried milk from other goats in the herd your doe came from? We have someone here that is known for bad tasting milk, and it is unclear if its the milk handling or something bred into the herd. I have two does from this herd before I knew, but I haven't had milk from them yet. I bred one for June babies, but she missed this go around. It might just be the doe


Previous post answers as to what I am going to do...will let everyone know.
I have only ever tatsed milk from an ND herd and it tasted good.


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## farmchick897

We have natural spring water that is pumped up. I'm going to try B vitamins and another copper bolus. first time around I crammed those bolus down the throat, they HATED it, I hated it. Can I open them and put in grain?


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## farmchick897

Also... I have Liquid B12 plus Vitamin K for chickens in the medicine cabinet. It has 10,000 mcg of pure B-12 per ounce. Can I give this? and if so what dose? Thanks


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## janeen128

farmchick897 said:


> We have natural spring water that is pumped up. I'm going to try B vitamins and another copper bolus. first time around I crammed those bolus down the throat, they HATED it, I hated it. Can I open them and put in grain?


Don't do that. The whole idea is to have them swallow the capsule, so it sticks to their system for a time release affect. I did put the capsule in the grain, and many of mine swallowed it, a few I needed to cram it down their throat. I'm planning on getting the gun that goes with them.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Ok, now I'm worried....I just tried some of Bailey's milk, and it was great... It took forever just to get enough to try so milking her is not an option.

Could it still be diet related if it is one doe out of two?  

I THINK I can try cheese and soaps with Heidi's milk, but this would be a big bummer 

Man, I hope Daisy freshens with sweet milk next spring


----------



## NyGoatMom

I'm gonna cry..............I'm wondering if I got taken. I could never do that to people.....


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## ms_sl_lee

I've had milk from a friend of mine and it taste just like cows milk. She always milked into a glass jar placed in a bucket of ice so it would be chilled right away. I don't know if that would help or not. They also kept the billy away from her. I'm told that can really have a bad effect on the taste. Is that true?


----------



## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> I'm gonna cry..............I'm wondering if I got taken. I could never do that to people.....


I thought you had already milked Heidi before? No It does take several weeks for the copper bolus to kick in. You did give it as a capsule? Just checking, because I had to redo one of my girls because she chewed it. I was told that wasn't good because the capsule is supposed to stick to their system and act like a time release. I would wait at least another 3 weeks or so... And try it again. I'm so sorry you are going through this.


----------



## janeen128

ms_sl_lee said:


> I've had milk from a friend of mine and it taste just like cows milk. She always milked into a glass jar placed in a bucket of ice so it would be chilled right away. I don't know if that would help or not. They also kept the billy away from her. I'm told that can really have a bad effect on the taste. Is that true?


I had my buck (billy) in with my milking doe for awhile, nothing bad happened to the milk, but she did dry up cause he got her I let them graze together during the day, then separated them at night, milk tasted no different.


----------



## NyGoatMom

ms_sl_lee said:


> I've had milk from a friend of mine and it taste just like cows milk. She always milked into a glass jar placed in a bucket of ice so it would be chilled right away. I don't know if that would help or not. They also kept the billy away from her. I'm told that can really have a bad effect on the taste. Is that true?


The buck is not close enough to even smell him where she is. I can try the glass jar, but I did Bailey's the same way this morning as I do Heidi's and it was fine.


----------



## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> I thought you had already milked Heidi before? No It does take several weeks for the copper bolus to kick in. You did give it as a capsule? Just checking, because I had to redo one of my girls because she chewed it. I was told that wasn't good because the capsule is supposed to stick to their system and act like a time release. I would wait at least another 3 weeks or so... And try it again. I'm so sorry you are going through this.


No, I never got to try her milk  I have been caring for the goats for 15 months....and waiting ....

The copasure I opened and gave to her in molasses. I had read on here people do the marshmallow thing and PB and bananas?? So I did molasses as I know she loves it.
Thing is ...she is losing more hair now! But her urine looks ok still and her eyelids are not yellow...


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## NyGoatMom

The milk is more metallic than anything...I mean you can disguise it with choc syrup or use it in cooking but that's a bummer. I'm gonna try a cobalt lick if I can find one.


----------



## sassykat6181

Here's an article I found - interesting reasons why goat milk can taste off

http://www.ehow.com/list_5977263_types-change-taste-goat_s-milk_.html#page=0


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## janeen128

I was told from the vet that the copasure needs to go down whole... Hmmm now I'm curious. I'm guessing if it's odd looking its gotta be something she's missing or getting to much of.


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## NyGoatMom

sassykat6181 said:


> Here's an article I found - interesting reasons why goat milk can taste off
> 
> http://www.ehow.com/list_5977263_types-change-taste-goat_s-milk_.html#page=0


I just find it odd that my other does milk is fine....they eat the exact same things!


----------



## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> I was told from the vet that the copasure needs to go down whole... Hmmm now I'm curious. I'm guessing if it's odd looking its gotta be something she's missing or getting to much of.


Milk looks fine, texture is good. Just a metallic-y after taste


----------



## farmchick897

See, mine eat same pasture too. Same feed. Last year when I leased a Saanen she was fed same mixture except for Purina Goat feed I used Omelene Junior ( a horse feed) mixed with oats and alfalfa pellets. When the lady I leased goat from went on vacation I milked her two other Saanen's they both tasted like cows milk. My last resort if this vit b12 and copper doesn't work is to get them off of pasture and feed only hay to rule out anything they are eating out there. But then again why would my Saanen's taste fine.?The other 3 the milk looks good just taste goaty. Leaves a bad after taste. :/


----------



## Gertie

NyGoatMom, I haven't been on much but have been following your thread. I could cry for you!!!! I think you got took. Maybe the reason she sold her to begin with. I am so so sorry for you. You have been so excited and patient. You've waited a long time to begin your journey. I think you have gone above and beyond trying to improve her milk. You might want to consider selling her and replacing her with one that gives good sweet milk. It can be very discouraging when you aren't happy with your hard work with foul tasting milk. ) : So sorry this has happened to you. Everyone on here is so great and has helped tremendously, sometimes nothing works. You are in my thoughts! Don't give up your dream, it's worth it in the end.


----------



## janeen128

NyGoatMom said:


> Milk looks fine, texture is good. Just a metallic-y after taste


Well, I'm so sorry, maybe you did get taken That is a bummer.... So sorry that would be extremely frustrating


----------



## farmchick897

I have milked twice now since giving B12 and copper, also adding a pinch of the Onyx minerals that are offered free choice and kelp to their grain. What I have noticed is one goat in particular is a VERY fussy eater, when adding anything to grain she picks at it very slowly and barely touched any of it this morning. My Saanen eats anything, pine needles, banana peels,ect. and she has the best tasting milk. The fussy Lamancha has the worst taste. The other two goats are in the middle with eating and taste. Does anyone have picky eaters and is there a trick to make them eat?


----------



## NyGoatMom

Gertie said:


> NyGoatMom, I haven't been on much but have been following your thread. I could cry for you!!!! I think you got took. Maybe the reason she sold her to begin with. I am so so sorry for you. You have been so excited and patient. You've waited a long time to begin your journey. I think you have gone above and beyond trying to improve her milk. You might want to consider selling her and replacing her with one that gives good sweet milk. It can be very discouraging when you aren't happy with your hard work with foul tasting milk. ) : So sorry this has happened to you. Everyone on here is so great and has helped tremendously, sometimes nothing works. You are in my thoughts! Don't give up your dream, it's worth it in the end.


Thanks Gertie! I just don't know if she would sell....I would NOT lie about her milk since I have a conscience, so who would want her? She's 5 years old and has very poor conformation....

I think I'll try a few more things first, and go from there...lol...I am even going to try coconut. It worked for nchen7


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## sassykat6181

You could always add strawberry syrup


----------



## NyGoatMom

farmchick897 said:


> See, mine eat same pasture too. Same feed. Last year when I leased a Saanen she was fed same mixture except for Purina Goat feed I used Omelene Junior ( a horse feed) mixed with oats and alfalfa pellets. When the lady I leased goat from went on vacation I milked her two other Saanen's they both tasted like cows milk. My last resort if this vit b12 and copper doesn't work is to get them off of pasture and feed only hay to rule out anything they are eating out there. But then again why would my Saanen's taste fine.?The other 3 the milk looks good just taste goaty. Leaves a bad after taste. :/


It's very frustrating...maybe your saanen doesn't like whatever the others are eating so she doesn't eat it??


----------



## terri9630

I have 2 Lamanchas and up until recently the milk has been wonderful. One freshened in Dec,the other in Feb. The past few weeks the milk has had a bitter after taste. I'm going to take them to the Vet on Monday. Is there a test/blood work that can be run to check for deficiencies? Also a few weeks ago I had a really bad respiratory infection from smoke from nearby fires and the goats didn't get milked. Just left with the kids. My DEC fresheners milk production has dropped by half. Any hope of getting that back up or is she starting to dry up? She had/has 2 kids nursing.


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## NyGoatMom

sassykat6181 said:


> You could always add strawberry syrup


 I love strawberry!!


----------



## ksalvagno

Keep in mind that if you are in drought conditions or over watered conditions, the grass is going to be different and may change the taste of your milk. It doesn't have to be weeds that may change the flavor.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Thanks Karen~
I just got back from getting hay today, and my hay farmer was telling me that the hay is orchard,brome,timothy and clover.

And GUESS WHAT!??

I hadn't tasted Heidi's milk for a few days so I tasted it tonight....and IT WAS DRINKABLE!!! :stars: :stars:

I was almost crying I was so excited!!! It had to be the copper.....it has been almost 2 weeks since I gave her the 4g of copasure via molasses....I am walking on eggshells here.....I hope it stays good and gets a bit better even!!

:dance: :stars: :dance: :stars:


----------



## NyGoatMom

So much blood,sweat and tears for a year and a half.....and it finally is paying off 

Oh and here is a link to where I get my hay from....such a gorgeous property 
http://hayberryfarm.org/blog1/about-2/


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## janeen128

Oh yay!!!! I'm so excited for you!!


----------



## NyGoatMom

janeen128 said:


> Oh yay!!!! I'm so excited for you!!


Thank you! I am so paranoid it will get worse again....like this is a tease or something


----------



## Gertie

:stars: I am SO happy for you!!!!!!!!!:stars:


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## nchen7

yay!!!! so exciting!!!!!


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## ksalvagno

Good. So it may well be the copper. Hopefully this will take care of it.


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## NyGoatMom

Thanks guys! 

I did just start another thread....her milk is good but by the next day, bad again!

But at least we can drink it daily


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## NyGoatMom

Just to update for people searching...I pastuerized and it was good on day 2 as well....


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## GoatLover2000

It could be genetics also, some goats just have bad tasting milk.


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## NyGoatMom

Welcome to TGS!

I have started pasteurizing and the milk stays ok for at least 2 days now...but I have high hopes for my other nubian doeling and another Saanen doeling...I do think Heidi's milk is just not "sweet", but it is now drinkable and my kids will use it plain...so it's a start. If I prove to get other does who's milk tastes better, she may be culled from my herd...not sure about it yet! 
I want milk that is a tad more like cow's milk in flavor....although, as I said....her's is not _bad_ I just know I can find better.


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## TLatCP

I have been having the same problem with my Oberhalsi doe, I cant really describe the bitterness, but I have been told by 2 long time goat owners that since I still have her kid nursing (violently) during the daytime that her milk wont improve until he is weaned. Another goat owner also recommended getting a fecal sample done. ( I did worm her immediately after she kidded) I was really surprised that her fecal egg count was over 1000 when my other goats were under 100. I am going to give it a week and see if it improves at all


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## NyGoatMom

Ok...now her milk tastes great! Had to be the copper and selenium I gave her....as time has gone by her milk is tasting better and better and I don't think I even need to pasteurize it.

So for anyone searching...here is what I suggest you ask yourself if your doe has bitter milk...

1.Has it been long enough for colostrum to run through?
2.Has she been recently dewormed?
3.Is she UTD with selenium/e?
4.If you don't copper bolus....maybe you should.
5.Is equipment properly cleaned and sanitized?
6.Does milk chill fast enough?
7.Are the jars new or used/recycled sauce jars,etc.?
8.Is there a weed in the hay that makes bitter milk?
9.Do you have hard water? (I do and that inhibits copper absorption along with my hay being high in manganese, so the copper bolus really helped!)Even though I have free-choice loose goat minerals it was not enough!
10.Test for mastitis to be sure...

She is now getting 12 cups a day (6 in am and 6 in pm) of 50/50 alfalfa and 18 % sweet feed and is giving 2 quarts in am and has a doeling on her all day.

I hope this post helps others going through this issue....it really was very frustrating, but now I am glad I stuck to it....her milk is great!! 

ETA: It took a good 3 weeks for the copper to make a difference..I just kept milking anyway...and fed it to other animals and plants!


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## ksalvagno

Glad you stuck it out with her and now her milk is good!


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## NyGoatMom

Whew....what a learning experience!!


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## Di

I haven't had time to read through this thread till today. I'm impressed with your perseverance! Good job! I did have an issue with my Lucy Alpine's milk, it was a bit salty and kinda bitter. I was blaming it on the "arborvitea" trees she was eating over the fence. I have given her a copper bolus and hope next time her milk will be better. 

Thanks everyone!


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## FunnyNudders

So happy your girl finally came through all that and on the winning side. How rewarding that must be for you. You deserve an award or at least a t-shirt that say's " I survived the milk challenge". I read the whole post and what great people this blog has to hang with you and help cheer you onward. This truly is the best blog out there...and I belong to many. Sooo happy for you. This has helped me to with my girls having goaty tasting milk. I am going to copper bolus them and get the milk colder faster and keep it in glass jars instead of plastic.
CONGRAT'S!!!


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## NyGoatMom

So happy this will help 

And I'd LOVE that t-shirt LOL


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## Gertie

NyGoatMom, you are truly amazing!!! Not only sticking with it and following through, your whole thread has been such a learning experience for a lot of people here. I think I am going to do the copper bolus too. My milk has not gotten much better and it certainly is goaty tasting. What did you use and where did you get it. I can't believe what a difference it has made with your girl. Thank you for being such a great goat mom and thanks to all on this forum for all the wonderful imput and help. Big hugs to you NyGoatMom, you deserve it!!!


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## NyGoatMom

Aww Gertie, Thanks 

I got the copasure from jeffers and it is specifically for goats and sheep. It comes in 4g and 2 g. The four is for 100-200 lbs and the 2 is for younger/smaller. I bought the four grams and just gave Daisy half a pills worth to be sure since she is only a yearling. I will be doing the babies soon too probably this weekend.


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## Gertie

Thanks so much. I am going to order it right after I write this. How did you give it to them? I've heard people say they use marshmelows and such. I hate to stick that bolus gun down their throat. I will if I have to though. I've had enough of dumping milk.


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## NyGoatMom

I hear ya....I hated dumping it!

I put the rods in a small bit of molasses and Heidi ate it right off the spoon, Daisy Mae I had to "hide it" in her grain cause she doesn't like new textures


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## Gertie

I just ordered it. From Valley Vet though cause Jeffers was back ordered. Did you also notice a difference in their coat? My older Doe's hair is horrible!! Feels just like wire! I didn't realize the copasure also helps with worms. that's what I read on some of the reviews on the copasure. Thanks NyGoatMom.


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## NyGoatMom

Np...I am just relaying what i learned on here! Do you remember I said Heidi was losing hair?...Now her hair is so shiny and soft it is insane...she feels like silk to pet her and she has no bald spots now...

I also gave her some selenium/e gel about 2 weeks ago but the copper was what started the hair growth back...


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## Gertie

Unbelievable!! Now I can't wait for it to come, then wait another 3 wks for it to take affect. ) : Oh well, at least I'm getting on it. Our goats have been the most finicky work of all our animals but that's ok. I love them to pieces.


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## NyGoatMom

I know what you mean, I love,love,love my goats


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## NyGoatMom

Just had to say today Heidi's milk is absolutely delicious! :stars:

And....I wanted to give a big shout out to all who helped and encouraged me through this "milk challenge"  So....THANKS 

And an even BIGGER shout out to *ThreeHavens* for nailing it right on the head with suggesting a copper bolus :stars:

Thanks everyone!! :stars: :dance: :stars: :dance:


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## sassykat6181

Congrats! And thanks for this thread. I am going to copper bolus my girls again and hopefully my new FF will have better tasting milk in a few weeks


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## NyGoatMom

I hope it works for you sassy!


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## nchen7

yay!!!!! great news!!!!! :stars: :stars:


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## Rev144

I have been having copper issues this year too. My goat milk does not taste bad, but they get really ornery when they need it. My bucks have really bad fish tails, my black girl is wirey and red and we have had fluctuating milk volumes. The sad thing is..... I bolused April 21, June 14, and again today. It seems like they have been needing it by the end of 3 weeks. I had been using the marsh mellow trick instead of the capsules and pill pusher. I think that has something to do with it. Today I used the pill pusher and capsules and hope I wont have to bolus for another 3 months. 

Anyone else have problems having to re-bolus soon when using anything but the pill pusher?


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## sassykat6181

I used the pill pusher 3 months ago and needed to rebolus today. I have one doe that chews it no matter how far I go back. Ugh


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## LinaNate

*Sheep & Goat Block or Alfalfa Cubes?*

It's been 2 weeks since our does kidded. We've started milking them and the milk is very bitter and a touch salty. Two days ago I put a sheep and goat block out for them, I also have been soaking and feeding alfalfa cubes since just before kidding.

I'll be cutting out the alfalfa cubes I guess since you've all said alfalfa can cause the off flavor.

My questions are:

Can a mineral block that they've gorged themselves on cause the taste issue we are having?

Can I make mozzarella cheese with this milk that will taste okay?


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## deerbunnyfarm

Have you done a mastitis test on them?


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## deerbunnyfarm

Also, a sheep and goat block isn't adequate for a goats' mineral needs. They need loose minerals, goat specific, because they need the copper and they also can't get enough off of the blocks because their tongues are smooth. Inadequate copper can cause bad tasting milk.


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## NicoleV

Last time one of my does kidded, her milk tasted chalky/bitter until she was about 2-3 weeks fresh. It was weird because she had been eating the same stuff as she always ate. I attributed it to being too close to kidding.

Another time, I fed a lot of orange peels to a doe and her milk was so nasty bitter that even her kids wouldn't nurse! lol

Maybe take the block away and try another mineral.


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## LinaNate

Thank you for the responses! The goats are housed with sheep so I can only give goat specific mineral on the milking stand or copper via bolus as copper will kill the sheep. They aren't coppery looking or looking fishtailed. I do have copper bolus on hand, does it do damage if given when not deficient?

The 6 of them ate down the WHOLE block already!
I've not done a mastitis test, I have no test strips or kits on hand. They aren't lumpy, hot or giving weird looking milk in the strip cup.


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## deerbunnyfarm

I would definitely bolus. It won't hurt.

There is a mastitis test you can do using dish soap I believe...maybe something to look into?


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## ksalvagno

You may as well leave the block out since you bought it. If you have sheep and goats together, you can't give enough copper to goats without bolusing. But a good loose mineral would be better than the block.


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## lilaalil

I had a doe who's milk tasted like this when I first bought her. 

The previous owner had a mineral block out for her, but no loose minerals. It took me a few weeks to figure out that she needed loose minerals. Within days of putting the loose minerals out, the milk started tasting better. Within a few weeks, it was perfect! I'm not sure if it was cobalt deficiency, copper deficiency, or some other deficiency, but the good news is that the loose minerals fixed up whatever it was. I used Manna Pro Goat Minerals (they sell them at Walmart over here), but there is also a livestock one by Sweetlix (Meat-Maker, I think it's called)that works for goats too. Just make sure it is not for sheep, because the sheep ones don't have enough copper for goats (sheep can't handle much copper, but goats need lots of copper).

I feed my milkers alfalfa all the time, and the milk tastes great. For us, mineral deficiency was the problem.

Mastitis can also cause weird flavors, so best to do a mastitis test as well. 

Hope that helps!


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## sassykat6181

At 2 weeks fresh, you could still be getting a hint of colostrum in the milk as well


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## NyGoatMom

I agree with giving them a copper bolus @ 1 gram per 22#, and giving loose minerals...


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## LinaNate

deerbunnyfarm said:


> Have you done a mastitis test on them?


I just tested with the soap water/ milk method on their fresh milk last night. No slimy results. The one (my Kinder breed) has sweet perfect milk and my other (the French Alpine) has a slight hint of bitterness now but it's not as salty and off tasting as it was the day before.

Only thing different yesterday is the block is gone as they ate it all, I didn't give fruit peels and scraps as a treat. My Kinder got soaked alfalfa cubes on the milking stand, my husband milked her before I could tell him not to give them.

I milked the French Alpine and all she got on the stand was sweet feed grain and her loose goat mineral. I believe we are improving. 
Should I still copper bolus them?


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## NyGoatMom

Pics of copper deficient goats are here....http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/what-copper-bolusing-can-do-173022/

It's up to you to determine if/when/how often your goats need copper bolusing since every farm is different and feed varies so much. I know copper deficiency makes milk off...


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