# Breed with lower milk production?



## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

We are getting goats again this year. We had them before, several years back, but water issues made us get rid of them. Now, we have water sorted, so we'd like to get goats again.

Previously, we had Alpines, and they were great. We'd get about 1.5 gallons a day from each nanny, and they were gentile, easy for us to manage, and just all around great goats. We were very upset when we had to get rid of them.

But, I've been doing our "milk accounts", and I really don't see us using more than 4 gallons a week, max. That's with butter, milk, yoghurt, cheese, etc.

So, I'm wondering if there are some breeds out there that have lower milk production, and in exchange for that, do a bit better with lower quality feed. We have pasture and browse, and I'd like to keep the grain to a minimum.

We can always get rid of extra milk to the pigs or someone else around here, but to me, if I can reduce the feed bill a bit, and still get what we need, then I'm happy.

What about a few spanish nannies? would they give milk well enough to provide the 1/2 a gallon a day or so that we need? I imagine if we had 2 or 3, then they wouldn't have to produce much at all.

The other side of this is that we live in an area where people love to eat goat meat (Mexico), but there are no local producers within 30 miles. There could be a little money made from selling kids for meat.

So, I guess what I am asking is there a multipurpose breed that does well on pasture/browse and would produce a small amount of milk (like 1/4 gallon a day or maybe even less) and also have decent meat properties?


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## DaisyMayFarm (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm not sure how well meat goats produce (if you pull kids, ect), but I think the lowest producing dairy breeds are Nubian and Nigerian Dwarf.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

You could get Nigerians they are a small milking breed. Meat goats of any kind could be used too but their lactation will be fairly short so you would have to be sure to freeze milk for the off time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Kikos would probably be a good choice.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

I live in a pretty dry and hot climate, I'm not sure Kikos would do well, here. Finding them around here might prove to be difficult, too. 

NDs might do well. I had a friend back in Texas that had them and they were easy to handle (I often milked for him). I might be able to get them here, as I sometimes see them advertised in the city.

I think full-size goats would be better for meat production/prices, but I expect they eat more. So, maybe nubians, but don't nubians still produce a good 1/2 gallon a day or more each?


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

Another alternative is a Pygmy. They're a small "dual purpose" goat.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

xymenah said:


> You could get Nigerians they are a small milking breed. Meat goats of any kind could be used too but their lactation will be fairly short so you would have to be sure to freeze milk for the off time.


yeah, it would depend on how long they could be kept milking, but I might be able to find some that could be staggered. A few folks were telling me that they were able to breed their Spanish does year round, which if true, would open up some possibilities, because I could do staggered breedings and always have one or 2 in milk.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

First the nd's might be your way to go, not that much milk and not that much to feed them. After that (if I was in your place) I would find a boer/nubian cross. I have a good handful of those and their bags are not OMG but there are 3 that I have milked for orphan animals. I say boer because IMO the spanish are not as nice to handle, may just be the few that I have. Now I know you are trying to go a way of trying to save money, but even if you did get a full sized, full dairy breed you could still save money, you said milk for the pigs, well that would still save some money on pig food, you could make soap, even sell it. I dont know what other animals you have, but you could still save money by feeding them milk, not just milk, but it would cut down on their feed. And you could still have 'meat kids' by getting a meat breed buck to breed them. My boer buck still throws boer looking kids when bred to the dairy goats I have, well except the lamancha  Just thought I would throw that out there, not trying to change your mind.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

AdamsAcres said:


> Another alternative is a Pygmy. They're a small "dual purpose" goat.


do you know approximately how much they produce in milk?
I know that is like asking how long is a string, but just a general idea


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

Up to 2/3 gallon per day at the peak with a butterfat content of 4.5 or higher


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> First the nd's might be your way to go, not that much milk and not that much to feed them. After that (if I was in your place) I would find a boer/nubian cross. I have a good handful of those and their bags are not OMG but there are 3 that I have milked for orphan animals.


I haven't seen many Boers down here. I'm sure some people have them, but I am going to have to look around a bit for that. I might be able to find them.

The NDs are definitely one I have considered, just because I know their size and output, so that would be pretty easy for me, really. I have seen some of them around, too, so I think I could locate some decent does to start with.



Jessica84 said:


> I say boer because IMO the spanish are not as nice to handle, may just be the few that I have.


could you elaborate on this a bit?

I've never had spanish, but there are lots in my area, so I know I can get them cheap. I knew a lady in northern Mexico a few years back. She had like 70 spanish nannies, and she milked them every single day. I imagine they had some milk goat in their genetics, somewhere, but those were some of the calmest, easiest goats I have ever seen. They went out and free ranged on their own every day, came home and lined up to be milked in the evening. She had them trained really well, and they didn't produce a lot of milk per goat (I can't even remember how much, probably a liter or less), but her feed bill was almost $0. And that was on some pretty rough country (northern Mexico = Chihuahuan Desert)



Jessica84 said:


> Now I know you are trying to go a way of trying to save money, but even if you did get a full sized, full dairy breed you could still save money, you said milk for the pigs, well that would still save some money on pig food, you could make soap, even sell it. I dont know what other animals you have, but you could still save money by feeding them milk, not just milk, but it would cut down on their feed. And you could still have 'meat kids' by getting a meat breed buck to breed them. My boer buck still throws boer looking kids when bred to the dairy goats I have, well except the lamancha  Just thought I would throw that out there, not trying to change your mind.


yeah, it would save some money giving milk to other animals, but I think it would save more to not buy grain for the goat in the first place. Going grain to milk to pig has more loss than going grain to pig. Or, that is what I would think.

I have plenty of animals that love goat milk. When we had the Alpines, we gave more to the animals than we did ourselves (dogs, cats, chickens, pigs, etc). And that was after making loads of cheese and everything else. At the end of the day, we just didn't need that much milk! 

So, that's kinda what I'm thinking. If I don't need the milk, then it is not a complete waste, because the other animals will eat it, but still, it is kinda wasteful, because I could have a breed that ate less, produced less, and was overall less maintenance. That's my theory, anyway.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

AdamsAcres said:


> Up to 2/3 gallon per day at the peak with a butterfat content of 4.5 or higher


interesting, they might be good, too. do they do well foraging? Our Alpines were not that great at foraging, really. But they had been raised in a dairy, and so really had never even seen a pasture. It took us a while hiking with them to teach them what to do.


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

Yes, they do well foraging. Pygmy/Nigerian Dwarf crosses are very popular these days.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

I'll look into their growth rates and stuff and see if that will work for us. I guess if all else fails, I could get a ND buck and breed with standard milks does to get minis.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm in southern NM, my Saanens are bred to a Boer, I bought them this way but the lady that did the breeding said it was for 3 reasons

1. Gives a slightly bulkier goat
2. raises butterfat
3. cuts milk production by about 30%

Don't know yet how true these things are but she was sure!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Kinders They are a dual purpose breed. Crossed between a Nubian and Pygmy. They are smaller, so they eat less, and the girl I just got a couple weeks ago is giving about 16 oz twice a day. She's starting to give more since she is comfortable now. She gave about 20oz tonight and I know with her other owner it was a quart twice a day. They are also supposed to dress out 60% of their body weight for meat. Haven't done that yet, but kids are coming soon, so I will wait until next year to find out on that


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Also, they really do keep everything down, so the eat off the land really well.


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## lovemykidds (Dec 24, 2012)

ND's do well just about anywhere lol. And they are smaller and have a high yield for their size  also feeding the extra milk to your pigs will make fabulous meat and cut down the pig feed cost (;


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

serenityfarmnm said:


> I'm in southern NM, my Saanens are bred to a Boer, I bought them this way but the lady that did the breeding said it was for 3 reasons
> 
> 1. Gives a slightly bulkier goat
> 2. raises butterfat
> ...


interesting. I can see # 1 and 3, but I didn't know about #2.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> Kinders They are a dual purpose breed. Crossed between a Nubian and Pygmy. They are smaller, so they eat less, and the girl I just got a couple weeks ago is giving about 16 oz twice a day. She's starting to give more since she is comfortable now. She gave about 20oz tonight and I know with her other owner it was a quart twice a day. They are also supposed to dress out 60% of their body weight for meat. Haven't done that yet, but kids are coming soon, so I will wait until next year to find out on that


I'll have to look around and see if I can find kinders.

How much is 16 oz of milk?

I know I can get NDs around here, not sure what they would see for as far as meat is concerned. Does anyone know what they weight at 2 months and 6 months?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Now it could be just the ones I have (spanish) but they just do not like to be cornered or touched, not mean just go out of their way not to. Even the kids who are 75% boer are the same way. They still come when I call them just more flighty I guess the word would be. But I will still keep them no matter what since their kids come out running so they are hardy.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> Now it could be just the ones I have (spanish) but they just do not like to be cornered or touched, not mean just go out of their way not to. Even the kids who are 75% boer are the same way. They still come when I call them just more flighty I guess the word would be. But I will still keep them no matter what since their kids come out running so they are hardy.


yeah, I guess a lot depends on the bloodlines they come from, too. They are definitely hardy, I've seen a lot living out in the desert on just about nothing, and they keep good condition and raise 2-3 kids every year, all on their own.

So, there's no question that they are hardy and some are probably pretty flighty, too.

how about milk production? do you see that spanish nannies could produce a liter or 2 a day for several months?


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Kikos would do fine in a hot dry climate. They were developed in South Africa and New Zealand.

My Nubians produce as much as any other Dariy breed, feed their triplets and still flood the house with milk. The mini breeds would be your best bet for lower production if you want a several month lacatation. Most meat breeds don't have long lactation unless you have dairy/meat crosses.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

I'm a huge Pygmy advocate (which is why AdamsAcres's posts made me so happy) and I think as a dual purpose they are better than a ND because they are more heavily muscled, but they do have a small drawback. While they are hardy, great foragers, and easy to handle, they are notorious for birthing issues. The heavily muscled "cobby" body makes the does more prone to malpresentations and kids getting stuck. 

If you are looking for a no hassle, dual purpose herd might I suggest investing in a Pygmy buck or two and keeping breeding does that are ND/Pyg crosses. Crossing usually results in a longer body so much fewer birthing issues, and NDs are great milkers, but the 3/4 Pygmy kids will be heavier proportionately and therefore make more money as meat goats. 

I have a Pygmy doe and ND buck and her little buckling is a monster with his mommy's muscles and daddy's size.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

lottsagoats said:


> Kikos would do fine in a hot dry climate. They were developed in South Africa and New Zealand.


New Zealand is the opposite of hot and dry. 

I knew people that had them in West Texas, and they always suffered more than the others (spanish, nubians, boers). It might have just been their bloodlines, but they didn't seem to do well in those conditions.


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## velacreations (Mar 10, 2013)

Axykatt said:


> While they are hardy, great foragers, and easy to handle, they are notorious for birthing issues. The heavily muscled "cobby" body makes the does more prone to malpresentations and kids getting stuck.


to me, this is a major drawback.



Axykatt said:


> If you are looking for a no hassle, dual purpose herd might I suggest investing in a Pygmy buck or two and keeping breeding does that are ND/Pyg crosses. Crossing usually results in a longer body so much fewer birthing issues, and NDs are great milkers, but the 3/4 Pygmy kids will be heavier proportionately and therefore make more money as meat goats.


that's a good suggestion.

To be honest, a lot depends on what I can find around here. I know there are some of the major milk breeds (saanen, alpine, nubians) and some meat breeds (spanish, maybe some boer), and I have seen NDs down here, too. I don't know that I have seen any Pygmies, but maybe they were, and I just thought they were NDs.

I will go to the state AG university when I'm ready to look, and ask them for the respectable breeders in the region, and then start looking at breeds that are available. I know some folks within an hour or so from me that have standard dairy goats (saanen and apline, mostly), and some people closer with spanish and/or mutts.


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