# mom won't nurse kids - advice, please!



## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

My Nubian is refusing to nurse her 2 week old kids this afternoon. I've never milked her before, and she is super high-strung as it is. Her udder looks super-engorged, so I figured I needed to milk her and relieve her a bit. She is throwing a huge fuss (I still don't have a milk stand), and it took my son and me both to try to get the job done. I ended up milking her a bit as she laid on the ground, while he held onto her neck for dear life. I managed to get one baby latched on while she was laying there, too. I don't know when the other baby got to nurse last. He looks a little hunched up to me. Shall I go ahead and get the bottle going for the little boys? I have Land O Lakes milk replacer on hand. 

Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yep give them milk. Something must be wrong for her to stop nursing.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

And what happens next? If she won't nurse them, am I looking at her getting mastitis?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

How is her udder besides full? Is it hot?
Have kids chewed up her teats?
She is going to have to be milked and you are in for a rodeo.
if she lays down try to get the other kid to latch on.
Another thing you can do is tie her up short to a fence, put a bucket under her belly so cant sit.
Hold a rear leg up & milk as fast & as much as you can into a container & feed kids.
It may take awhile for her to cooperate but just tell her what a good girl she is I mean out & out LIE to her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would milk out enough, so she doesn't hurt, or force the kids on her, that is why she isn't standing still. It hurts.

How does her milk look and milk color and consistency? Is her udder hard and hot?

Tie her head up snug to a post, so she cannot move.
Tie up the back leg , the side you will be working from and put her leg up so she cannot kick the kid or move away. 
This works for me when I am by myself. She won't be able to move.
She needs relief or yes she will get mastitis if she hasn't already.

Go out every 2 hours or so and put the kids on each teat, even if you have to do it one at a time, that is OK.
This will help relieve her and she shoud start standing still for her babies.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Her udder feels warm. I'll have to compare it to another doe's udder to see whether it is hot. The teats look fine to me. They were definitely looking full, too. I didn't collect any milk to look at it. Just squirted it out on the ground. Looked like milk. 

The bucket under her is a great idea. We did have her head snugged up to the gate, but she just kept laying down. That's always her mode of defense when we're trimming hooves, too.

I really do want her to be a good girl. I will tell her the lie. And will keep trying. I won't have any good-sized human helpers for several hours . Ugh. It was already quite a workout. Had my heart racing and my arms trembling.

Would you, Pam and Nancy, then NOT give the babies the replacer right now? I know the ideal would be mom's milk. I just don't how long the babies can wait without that liquid meal ...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If one is already hunched, he needs milk now. It is amazing how quickly you can lose them when they don't nurse.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I have no experience with replacer but he can have 5 or 6 oz WHOLE milk.
If you have powdered probiotics put some in his bottle, or a pinch of baking soda. A little yogurt with live cultures if you don't have probiotics.
Make sure his temp is above 100.
You are going to have to find out why she isn't feeding them; under normal circumstances Nubians are great mamas.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

We've pinned Lily down on her back - any other way has proved impossible. One baby nursed while she was like that.Baby #2 wouldn't nurse, and isn't liking the bottle, but we're going to keep trying.

Lily's udder is definitely warmer than the other goats' udders. One of her teats does have a sore spot on it.

What should I do for Lily?


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

The little guy that hasn't eaten has a temp of 102. He is keeping his tail down, and now I see that he has some raw spots on the underside of his tail. Don't know if that matters for anything.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If she was feeding them fine and then just stopped, its most likely because her udder hurts. Could already have mastitis, wound on the teats or is over full and needs to be milked down so she isnt uncomfortable. If there are no wounds, Id milk some and see if there is any clots and or blood in the milk.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

I've tried milking her again an hour ago. Will be trying again soon. I cannot see any clumps or blood in the milk. Of course, I am completely fighting her, and she is repeatedly getting a foot into the bowl. How big are the clumps that I am looking for?

I don't have a mastitis test on hand, and am not sure whether I can buy one locally. I'm assuming the vet can test the milk tomorrow. In the meantime, is there something I can do for her, besides trying to milk? I worked on just milking her (not trying to get the babies on this time) for more than half an hour, and I'll bet I got no more than a cup out of the two sides, combined. This was hardly the way I planned to learn how to milk my goats! Anyway, her bag is still so big, so I know I haven't even made a dent in it - not sure I can actually empty her while fighting her. Thanks for all of the input. I'll love and appreciate any and all suggestions.

I did put some lanolin on the teat with the sore spots.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There is a dish soap test. Do a search on here for the directions. 

Unfortunately it sounds like you need to do hot compresses, massage and milking a few times per day.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Thank you! I'll keep at it.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

http://askthehomesteaders.blogspot.com/2011/09/using-dish-soap-to-detect-mastitis.html

I found the link for the dish soap test Karen recommends, in case anybody else is reading this and wants to know ...


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## alicejane (Jan 15, 2014)

The vet should give you something to thin her milk & something for the pain untill her milk flows easier. Just info for when you see the vet. It won't hurt to give powder replacer, just might cause some diarreha to the little ones. We fed replacer & she fed off her mom. Thanks


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

OK. She has failed the soap test. It didn't turn to a gel, like a severe infection would indicate, but it did thicken. 

I've been reading about mastitis on the Fiasco Farm site. I don't have Molly's salve or immune support. Can my doe overcome this without going the antibiotic route, or should I just get it started, and get it over with?

If I go the antibiotic route, do I need to start bottle feeding the babies, rather than letting them nurse off of her while she is restrained?

Thank you!


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

And now that I return to the bowl, the soap-milk mixture is getting really, really thick. So maybe it's worse than "minor".


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Today/Tomorrow mastitis treatments are best. I forget which one has the most antibiotics in it. This will require you to milk the doe out and then inject it into the teat. And no, not treating it will only make it worse IMO.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Today is for during milking. Tomorrow is for drying up. You are going to need to get her milked out and then put the Today in and massage it up into the udder. One tube per side.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Ingrid said:


> OK. She has failed the soap test. It didn't turn to a gel, like a severe infection would indicate, but it did thicken.
> 
> I've been reading about mastitis on the Fiasco Farm site. I don't have Molly's salve or immune support. Can my doe overcome this without going the antibiotic route, or should I just get it started, and get it over with?
> 
> ...


Here is a good article regarding mastitis and congested udders.

http://tennesseemeatgoats.com/MeatGoatMania/March2013/


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The milk sample needs to be sterile for the test to accurate. With all the fighting I'm sure that the udder wasn't clean and bacteria got into the sample. 

Tomorrow will nor dry the udder off. It just contains a stronger longer lasting antibiotic. You shouldn't drink the milk for 30 days after using it. This is why most don't use it until the dry period.


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

That gives me hope ... I'll try for another sample of milk, and try the soap test again.

I have four tubes of Today on hand, from our round of soremouth. If I do treat her with this, how many days would be appropriate? The package says cows get "one syringe per quarter each 12 hours for a maximum of 2 treatments.

Next question: Hoegger supply says that Goat Serum or Bovi Sera (I actually have this in the fridge!) are a good treatment for mastitis, and can be given SQ and infused into the teats. Has anyone ever done this?

Last question: If I infuse with something, does that mean the babies need to be kept off of the doe? (Just supposing she starts feeling better and would allow them to nurse?) 

Thank you!


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

Failed the soap test again.

I'm thinking we keep holding her so the babies can nurse until bedtime, then milk her as empty as possible, and then infuse her.

Still hoping for input on infusing her with Bovi Sera vs. Today, and whether the babies need to stay off her once this medication is given, and for how long.

Thank you everyone, for all the help.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would do the today and follow what they do for cows. I would keep the kids off.


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## Hurkett_Hill_Farm (Jan 12, 2014)

How long do the babies need to stay off mom? I have a doe with mastitis who I'm about to give toDay to but there is no mention of that on the tube. Please advise! 


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## Udder Folks (May 24, 2013)

I still haven't dosed, so I can't say. I had the same question. Just spoke to a woman locally who had to do two rounds of the antibiotic to clear her doe up, and the babies had to be off of the mom the entire time. There is a 96 hour milk withdrawal on the Today, so that is what I was planning on.

I have been milking my doe, and then syringing the milk (30 cc) into her own mouth twice a day, as suggested to me on this thread, or maybe another. I still have my vet's CMT kit, so did another test last night - it still gelled a bit, but not as much as before, so I think we're making progress. I have also been giving my doe homeopathic Mastoblast from Hoegger's. I'll let you know if we clear it up all the way.


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