# Copper bolus crunch crunch - how give boluses correctly?



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

I got copper boluses for my new Nigerian doe who shows pretty clear sign of copper deficiency (fishtail, matted lighter colored hair tips with hooks). To deliver it I bought one of the plastic pill dispensers that Jeffers pet sells. I thought that even the small bolus gun looked big and expensive and there were positive reviews for the plastic one.

Fast forward to one hour ago. Bolus in dispenser with a click of probiotic gel, into the mouth as far as I could, pushed the plunger, a couple of chews and up came the bolus again. Repeated that a couple of times until the bolus got a good crack and some of the content came out in my hand as I picked it up.

Tried again with a new bolus and thought, yay victory, but then heard crunch, crunch, crunch. Nothing came out again. I gave her a dose of probiotic gel and gave up.

So what do I do now? Does this sound like it could have worked despite the bolus obviously being chewed up? How long do I wait until I try again? How soon could I expect to see results?

Any tips on how to administer the boluses? Should I get the bigger gun? I held the dispenser in front of her mouth, in hindsight I think I should've held it like the probiotic gel tube that I put in the corner of her mouth, but oh well...


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm confused. Did she swallow it? It is fine if she chews it.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Anna by the forest said:


> I got copper boluses for my new Nigerian doe who shows pretty clear sign of copper deficiency (fishtail, matted lighter colored hair tips with hooks). To deliver it I bought one of the plastic pill dispensers that Jeffers pet sells. I thought that even the small bolus gun looked big and expensive and there were positive reviews for the plastic one.
> 
> Fast forward to one hour ago. Bolus in dispenser with a click of probiotic gel, into the mouth as far as I could, pushed the plunger, a couple of chews and up came the bolus again. Repeated that a couple of times until the bolus got a good crack and some of the content came out in my hand as I picked it up.
> 
> ...


I dont care how far down i get my crazies copper.... they get it out! They are terrors when it comes to them. Mine always end up crunchin them and they are fine. They really are not crunching the individual rods per say just the amount is what makes you hear the crunch. The rods kinda imbed/lay in a stomach and dissolve at a slow rate from what i understand of the how it works. And if you put one in a liquiddy anything you will see that those capsules dissolve really quick anyway.

With mine i shove it as far back in a cheek as i can get it and just hold their mouth closed until they either quit movin their mouth like they are tryin get it out or swallow a few times. I put some pb on a spoon and the bolus atop that and in it goes. The pb is just so i can get it in their mouth without gettin bitten for my efforts lol! If yours like somethin soft that you can hide it in that may work.... mine.... pick it oout of EVERYTHING.

Put the bolus gun as far back as you can not the front. It may take a few months at the least for you to see a really noticable difference from the copper though. Their fur has to grow out for you to see improvement there. The tail... dependin on how long she has been deficient may go back to not fishy or may not... what i was told here when i asked that same question. My doe had a fish tail and i think it took hers a good six months to go unfishy. It may take a few doses spaced correctly out for you to see improvement also. We have well water and have to give copper more often than every sixish months for mine. Here it is usually About every 4 months... but how often you need do it will depend on your animals. .


----------



## CR Farm (Sep 15, 2017)

We always use fig newtons. Just poke the bolus in the end of the newton and they take it everytime.


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> I'm confused. Did she swallow it? It is fine if she chews it.


She did eventually. I think I read somewhere that the bolus should be swallowed whole and slowly dissolve in the rumen so the rods would attach to the walls. That way they wouldn't flush out as quickly through the digestive system and be more efficient. I've been reading so much about goats lately vthat maybe it was just from a dream....

Thank for confirming that it's enough if they swallow it, now I'll sleep better tonight.


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

CR Farm said:


> We always use fig newtons. Just poke the bolus in the end of the newton and they take it everytime.


 Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to try it next time!


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

Sfgwife said:


> I dont care how far down i get my crazies copper.... they get it out! They are terrors when it comes to them. Mine always end up crunchin them and they are fine. They really are not crunching the individual rods per say just the amount is what makes you hear the crunch. The rods kinda imbed/lay in a stomach and dissolve at a slow rate from what i understand of the how it works. And if you put one in a liquiddy anything you will see that those capsules dissolve really quick anyway.
> 
> With mine i shove it as far back in a cheek as i can get it and just hold their mouth closed until they either quit movin their mouth like they are tryin get it out or swallow a few times. I put some pb on a spoon and the bolus atop that and in it goes. The pb is just so i can get it in their mouth without gettin bitten for my efforts lol! If yours like somethin soft that you can hide it in that may work.... mine.... pick it oout of EVERYTHING.
> 
> Put the bolus gun as far back as you can not the front. It may take a few months at the least for you to see a really noticable difference from the copper though. Their fur has to grow out for you to see improvement there. The tail... dependin on how long she has been deficient may go back to not fishy or may not... what i was told here when i asked that same question. My doe had a fish tail and i think it took hers a good six months to go unfishy. It may take a few doses spaced correctly out for you to see improvement also. We have well water and have to give copper more often than every sixish months for mine. Here it is usually About every 4 months... but how often you need do it will depend on your animals. .


Thank for all the great advice! I read @ksalvagno's post before I read yours, and now I've read it more than once that the rods stick to the wall of a stomach and dissolve. Extra good to know that this happens despite all the crunchiness!

Interesting and a little disappointing to hear that the recovery is pretty slow. But as long as she's healthy in the meantime, I don't mind the wait.

Thanks again for all the details!


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Anna by the forest said:


> Thank for all the great advice! I read @ksalvagno's post before I read yours, and now I've read it more than once that the rods stick to the wall of a stomach and dissolve. Extra good to know that this happens despite all the crunchiness!
> 
> Interesting and a little disappointing to hear that the recovery is pretty slow. But as long as she's healthy in the meantime, I don't mind the wait.
> 
> Thanks again for all the details!


You may see results sooner. Just not always. I didnt want you lookin days later and goin ... nope not helpin and givin her more. .


----------



## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

I've read about opening up a banana slice and sticking the rods into that. I've read about using half a marshmellow and opening up and sticking them in there.

I am glad to hear if they chew it... it is ok. I was under the impression it was not a good thing if they chewed it. Thanks for clearing this up.

I am soon to get my copper oxide wire particles as well and will be trying the banana approach.

Article with the marshmellow.
http://goatspots.com/articles/copper/


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

Sfgwife said:


> You may see results sooner. Just not always. I didnt want you lookin days later and goin ... nope not helpin and givin her more. .


Thanks for telling me! I'll probably revisit in 3 months with another bolus if I don't see any results before then.


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

Island Milker said:


> I've read about opening up a banana slice and sticking the rods into that. I've read about using half a marshmellow and opening up and sticking them in there.
> 
> I am glad to hear if they chew it... it is ok. I was under the impression it was not a good thing if they chewed it. Thanks for clearing this up.
> 
> ...


Mashmallow method, I like it! I think that might at least work on my younger goat. Very interesting article!


----------



## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

https://thriftyhomesteader.com/goats-and-copper-deficiency/

this article has a lot of interesting information. check out the comments at the bottom.
supposedly you can top dress the copper wires.


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

Island Milker said:


> https://thriftyhomesteader.com/goats-and-copper-deficiency/
> 
> this article has a lot of interesting information. check out the comments at the bottom.
> supposedly you can top dress the copper wires.


Whoa, that article is a goldmine! And you're right about the comments, very good reads in those as well. Thank you!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I like to get the whole bolus down them, 
Straddle the goat, hold their head up and open the mouth, follow the inner teeth area, go way back, then plunge.
You have to get the thing inside of the teeth area and to the side, not straight and not under their teeth. 
Get it back there far enough or they work it back out with their tongue.

It can be followed by a treat to help it down. I have very few who chew on them.


----------



## Anna by the forest (May 20, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I like to get the whole bolus down them,
> Straddle the goat, hold their head up and open the mouth, follow the inner teeth area, go way back, then plunge.
> You have to get the thing inside of the teeth area and to the side, not straight and not under their teeth.
> Get it back there far enough or they work it back out with their tongue.
> ...


I read similar descriptions like yours, and it sounds really good but I'm concerned about accidentally pushing the bolus into their airways. Is that even a real risk?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not, if you go at an angle, do not go straight down.


----------

