# I think my wether has an udder. LOL



## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

I bought my first goats back in January. A wether and a bred doe, they are siblings. I never checked his ball situation. This morning while I was brushing him I felt an "udder" LOL. Someone PLEASE tell me this is the way wethers are suppose to look! I think I feel one testicle in there. AAAHHH.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

How was he wethered? He looks like a buck to me, does he act like one?


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Are his teat under his "udder"? or somewhere else? How was he wethered?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It looks like a buck!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yup...looks like a buck to me.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

The breeder I bought them from said that he was banded. He doesn't much act like a buck. Maybe that's because his sister is pregnant now and hasn't gone into heat. Which makes me wonder if he is the daddy?!! I'm to assume if he has at least one testicle, he's capable of breeding. I asked the breeder about the buck that was with my doe and she described the buck As being all black however she also told me my doe was due to kid at the end of JANUARY. So many questions. First one that comes to mind is, if these two siblings did in fact breed, what will be the outcome of the kids??


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Can you feel testicles in his scrotum? A banded boy loses the scrotum. Maybe she missed this one and thought she'd done him?

How old are he and his sister?


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

goatygirl said:


> Are his teat under his "udder"? or somewhere else? How was he wethered?


They are on his belly. Breeder told me He was banded.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

nicolemackenzie said:


> Can you feel testicles in his scrotum? A banded boy loses the scrotum. Maybe she missed this one and thought she'd done him?
> 
> How old are he and his sister?


Yep. I feel one. I was told they are about 2 years old.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yeah... If he was banded she missed one and he should be fertile....


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Flowerfarmher said:


> The breeder I bought them from said that he was banded. He doesn't much act like a buck. Maybe that's because his sister is pregnant now and hasn't gone into heat. Which makes me wonder if he is the daddy?!! I'm to assume if he has at least one testicle, he's capable of breeding. I asked the breeder about the buck that was with my doe and she described the buck As being all black however she also told me my doe was due to kid at the end of JANUARY. So many questions. First one that comes to mind is, if these two siblings did in fact breed, what will be the outcome of the kids??


If he bred her, the kids will probably be similar to what line bred kids are like. With line breeding (doe back to sire, buck back to mother) all good and bad things about the parents will be much better or worse. And since siblings have similar flaws, those flaws will be extreme in the kids.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Im trying to tell myself that accidents happen. So what, she missed a testicle. I'm a bit hurt because I feel like this breeder took advantage of me. The "newbie". She said out of the goats she has for sale, she would give me the best. WOO HOO. She said the doe was due at the end of January. Not! The wether is now a BUCK and both of their horns are growing back. If this is her best, I'd hate to see her worst. 
No wonder she met me in a parking lot when I bought them. I thought she was being helpful since I drove 4 hours to get them. 
OH WELL, Lesson learned the hard way. RANT OVER


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Where are you located? Can your vet do dehorning surgery? I don't want you to stress but there can be issue's with goats being bred that close. If you can get a vet out to check and estimate how close she is that might help you. What breed are they again? Testicles usually come out as pairs it hard to miss one when they are practically attached. What did you pay for them?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

It does look like she missed one... Or maybe he was born with only one and she figured he wouldn't be fertile and just said he was banded :shrug: 
But it could all just be a mistake and she missed one, things happen...



goatygirl said:


> Where are you located? Can your vet do dehorning surgery? I don't want you to stress but there can be issue's with goats being bred that close. If you can get a vet out to check and estimate how close she is that might help you. What breed are they again? Testicles usually come out as pairs it hard to miss one when they are practically attached. What did you pay for them?


I honestly wouldn't worry about it if he bred her sister... I've bred half siblings and have had no problems, I've even bred a doe back to her sire with no problems.... I wouldn't go and do it all the time, but wanted to experiment with some linebreeding, and I wasn't disappointed... 
They way I see it, and from what I've heard from other breeders as well, is you look at what you have conformation wise and work with that when choosing a buck, not so much looking at pedigree...
Now I wouldn't recommend going and breeding a doe back to her sire all the time, and I honestly, probably won't do it again unless need be or, if he is the better choice... Which it how it came about the first time for me... It was him, or a buck I didn't like much at all, and didn't compliment my doe the way I would like.. The kid I got was a fantastic looking kid!
So where yes, there could be issues, it isn't like you have to be paranoid... I've had some kids with 'problems' (parrot mouth, extra teat, missing testicle) from out crosses, and line breeding alike, about a 50/50....


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks everyone for responding and listening to me vent a little. I'm sticking with the idea my goats aren't perfect and neither am I. I will continue this journey with a smile on my face and love in my heart. I looked into surgery for their horns several weeks ago and talked to the vet then about it. I've decided not to put them through that. It sounds pretty bad. Vet agreed to cut them back some of they become bothersome. As far as getting rid of his "udder" LOL, I will consult the vet when she comes out to check on the doe after kidding. I need that taken care of ASAP. 
So for now, chin up and spirits high.


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

I know it's possible to accidentally miss a testicle when banding a goat because I did it myself!
I had to have the vet come out several months later and surgically remove the leftover one.
It was never able to descend as far as it would have if the scrotum had been intact, but it was definitely outside the body cavity. I don't know if my guy was fertile or not - thankfully he never had a chance to test it - but I wouldn't have bet against it.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I have heard that bucks can be born with one testicle not fully out, so it looks like they only have one. He might be like that and she thought he was defective and thus assumed he was a wether.


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

well...do you have a microscope? there is one way to tell if he has swimmers


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

we had friends over last spring and he found this in the yard...:think:










I let him examine it a few minutes before I said what it was...beer came out his nose, as well as &^#$%@#@ :slapfloor::slapfloor:

ETA it is laying on an old leave covered box


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

That is a pretty small sack for a two year old. If he was properly banded (which he obviously wasn't) he would look like a doe. When testicles are surgically removed the sack is left but shrivels up. I will be interested as to what the vet has to say about it. 
I have had brothers and sisters breed and have lovely babies.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

He could have been burdizzoed. If so, he will still have a small sack. I agree, even with only one testicle, at 2 years old, it should be about 2 to 3 times that size.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Also, do you have a pic of his horns?


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

bansil said:


> we had friends over last spring and he found this in the yard...:think:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahahahhahahahahahahhahahahaha. That is hillarious!!!


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> He could have been burdizzoed. If so, he will still have a small sack. I agree, even with only one testicle, at 2 years old, it should be about 2 to 3 times that size.


how old do you think he is? I ask because when I asked the breeder how old they were, the way she responded was questionable. She sort of squirmed and hesitated. Hard to explain. If you have ever had a child lie to you, it was like that.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Also, do you have a pic of his horns?


I will try to get a better picture tomorrow. His left one is about an inch and a half long. His right one is short and blunt. Maybe a half inch.


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

he looks like a wether i just adopted. The vet did the crimping method that actually crushes the sperm cord.he also has what feels like a testicle. i called her because i was concerned because i have four does. He was done in Jan and she said he would still have a small testicle about a inch long. Most bucks have testicles about four inches long. I'm hoping she is correct.Is it possible she did this method on him?


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Anything is possible at this point. She told me he was banded and I inly feel one testicle. So I don't really know. I will let the vet try to figure that out. I hope she says he is like your wether and was crushed.


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## GoatCrazy01 (Feb 14, 2016)

Agree with the others. Looks like a buck!


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

How old did you say they were? Do you have better pictures of them? He looks like he could be barely over a year. He's not tall enough to be more then a year and a couple months.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

They are both suppose to be 2 years old. Nigerian dwarfs. If they are only a year, that means she got pregnant when she was 7 months.. Yikes. this picture was taken in February. She should kid soon.?? The table in the picture that they are standing next to is a coffee table (for measurement reference). Is this ok? I will take more tomorrow if these won't help you. He is on the right


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

For age, look at his teeth. There is a chart online somewhere that shows teeth and age.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks!! I will look for it.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

http://www.infovets.com/books/smrm/C/C015.htm


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks again. I tried to get a picture of his teeth but he wasnt having it. Best I can tell they are 1.5-2 years old, according to those pictures. Golly, those back teeth are TINY. I've never seen goats teeth before. Pretty cool.


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## christinajh (Jan 24, 2013)

The horns is just scurs that can happen all the time even with a good burn during disbudding.


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yep, he's a buck. 
You can band him now and turn him into the wether you thought you had.
Those horns are scurs and could also come off with bands if you want to remove them. Put 2-3 bands on the base of the horn/scur and they will fall off along with that pesky "udder" 
I wouldn't loose any sleep over the possible inbreeding. The babies will probably be fine. She doesn't look very close to kidding in that picture. 
I'm so sorry that you had a poor experience with this breeder! I guess she won't sell anymore goats to you! Her loss. Most breeders are honest but there are a few bad apples. And maybe she's just uniformed. 
Enjoy your new cuties!


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

My four year old was recently hanging on the fence at the buck pen and exclaimed, "Wow! Gruff has a SERIOUS udder!!" LOL!


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

vvfarm said:


> my four year old was recently hanging on the fence at the buck pen and exclaimed, "wow! Gruff has a serious udder!!" lol!


hahahaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha
take a breath
hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

VVFarm said:


> Yep, he's a buck.
> You can band him now and turn him into the wether you thought you had.
> Those horns are scurs and could also come off with bands if you want to remove them. Put 2-3 bands on the base of the horn/scur and they will fall off along with that pesky "udder"
> I wouldn't loose any sleep over the possible inbreeding. The babies will probably be fine. She doesn't look very close to kidding in that picture.
> ...


I learn so much from this thread. I've never heard of banding scurs. It sounds easy enough. I will do some research on it to make sure I know what I'm doing. The picture I had posted of her was taken in February. This one was taken yesterday. I'm not sure when she's due. If I band him, will his pesky udder be gone before she goes into heat again after kidding? I don't want to have to seperate them. They scream for each other. Your right!! I won't soon be buying from her.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

And I was able to get a picture of his teeth. Am I correct that they are 1 1/2 to 2 years old? Want to make sure I'm learning correctly.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, he's a 2 year old...


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

She's definitely closer now than in February! She could be pretty soon. That's a nice udder. 
I don't know how long after banding that the buck would be infertile. I'd guess pretty soon but I honestly don't know. Maybe someone else will chime in.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Have you looked real close to see if there is a band sunk in the flesh at the top of the sack? He looks most like a recently banded buck that hasn't lost the sack yet...


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

goathiker said:


> Have you looked real close to see if there is a band sunk in the flesh at the top of the sack? He looks most like a recently banded buck that hasn't lost the sack yet...


No I havent. I don't THINK he does but I will definitely check that tomorrow.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

I've done a little research on banding the scurs (look at me using goat words like a boss haha) and I don't see any mention of what kinds of bands to use. is that something we can get at tractor supply? Is banding his scrotum something a newbie can do after hours of YouTube watching? It LOOKS easy but....... I'm new to this area and don't have any goat friends here (YET) to help. Or just leave that to the pros?


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## GoatCrazy01 (Feb 14, 2016)

I'm not sure about your buck - but your doe looks like she is going to kid soon. Keep us updated!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Has she only been exposed to her brother? If so, then he definitely still has a testicle in there. Banding is easy. You can get the tool at tractor supply, along with the green bands. You would use the same tool and bands to do the scurs


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

goathiker said:


> Have you looked real close to see if there is a band sunk in the flesh at the top of the sack? He looks most like a recently banded buck that hasn't lost the sack yet...


I checked today and didn't see anything.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

sassykat6181 said:


> Has she only been exposed to her brother? If so, then he definitely still has a testicle in there. Banding is easy. You can get the tool at tractor supply, along with the green bands. You would use the same tool and bands to do the scurs


I was told that she has always ran with her brother (they are inseparable even for a minute) but also had other Bucks running with her. Thanks!! I will go tomorrow and get the tool and bands . I watched a TON of videos on banding last night. Seems relative easy. Just make sure not to catch a nipple. I can do that..... I think. HAHA


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

He should be fully wethered by the time she goes into heat again, the only problem you'll have then is her bucklings  You can get bands and an elastrator from all the online goat supply stores. Thats where I got mine. It's fairly easy to band, you just have to have a person to hold the buck. And be prepared for him to lie in the mud with his legs up and cry for a few hours after banding. It's a little sad. 

And about the scurs- I use bands to get my buck's scours off every time they come back. All you have to do is put duct tape around his horn, sticky side out, put the band on, and put duct tape sticky side in on them.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> He should be fully wethered by the time she goes into heat again, the only problem you'll have then is her bucklings  You can get bands and an elastrator from all the online goat supply stores. Thats where I got mine. It's fairly easy to band, you just have to have a person to hold the buck. And be prepared for him to lie in the mud with his legs up and cry for a few hours after banding. It's a little sad.
> 
> And about the scurs- I use bands to get my buck's scours off every time they come back. All you have to do is put duct tape around his horn, sticky side out, put the band on, and put duct tape sticky side in on them.


I love the duct tape idea. Sooo glad he will be wethered by then. 
I didn't realize that after banding the scurs they will grow back. UGH 
Thankfully, I don't have any bucks. Well, except for this one. I bought both of them in January so the doe was running with the breeders bucks. Sorry, I should have been more clear.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't think you have a proper buck and you really need to find out if he has a retained testicle or what. Just banding the one that's hanging is not going to solve the behavior problems that a buck has and the trouble he will cause you and your doe. 

A 2 year old buck looks like this, there would be no way you get a band over him...


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

He is awfully small down there, I think my 6 moth old buckling is bigger then him.:lol: 
He may not have dropped until now, Its probably a genetic thing, and the person you bought him from just said he was banded for whatever reason, who knows. I really don't thing he was ever banded though. 
In this situation you may want to consider having a vet check him out or if you can find a experienced goat person to double check for you, just in case, you really don't want to band him if he still has something retained, it would just make your problem worse and more costly in the end.


I wouldn't worry about the scurs. Both of my wethers have scurs about the same size and they don't cause any trouble, they may occasionally(like once a year) break off a bleed a bit but nothing terrible, I usually just leave it alone and they heal up and grow back. If it gets to long trim it up with some hoof shears and call it good. I wouldn't put him through the pain of banding, for something that tiny, that will just grow back.:cowboy:


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I agree with the above two posters. Your buck has too small of a sack to be normal. Get a vet or experienced goat person to examine him. The scurs will keep growing back all his life. If you trim them routinely, they will stay small. If you band the sac, and he has a testicle up in the abdomen, it can become cancerous. Not to mention that he would still be fertile.


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

I have used duct tape on anything and everything...or so I thought :mrgreen:


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

My brother works at the sale barn and told me a funny story about some sheep wethers that recently came thru. They were declared wethers by the owner but seemed mighty ramy. The workers were CONVINCED they were rams but upon investigation found the wethers/rams didn't have anything hanging. So they asked the owner how he castrated them. He said he bands them. Well, ok. There's nothing there so it clearly worked. The next load of wethers to come thru from this farmer also seemed like rams. So they asked the farmer to describe HOW he bands them.
"Well, I push the nut back in and put the band on underneath. Why?"
Gaaahh! I don't know how anyone could make such a mistake. All his wethers were rams.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

goathiker said:


> I don't think you have a proper buck and you really need to find out if he has a retained testicle or what. Just banding the one that's hanging is not going to solve the behavior problems that a buck has and the trouble he will cause you and your doe.
> 
> A 2 year old buck looks like this, there would be no way you get a band over him...


Oh good heavens. He's NO Where NEAR that BIG. Yep, I'll wait to show the vet after the doe kids. Thanks!!


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

MoonShadow said:


> He is awfully small down there, I think my 6 moth old buckling is bigger then him.:lol:
> He may not have dropped until now, Its probably a genetic thing, and the person you bought him from just said he was banded for whatever reason, who knows. I really don't thing he was ever banded though.
> In this situation you may want to consider having a vet check him out or if you can find a experienced goat person to double check for you, just in case, you really don't want to band him if he still has something retained, it would just make your problem worse and more costly in the end.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the scurs. Both of my wethers have scurs about the same size and they don't cause any trouble, they may occasionally(like once a year) break off a bleed a bit but nothing terrible, I usually just leave it alone and they heal up and grow back. If it gets to long trim it up with some hoof shears and call it good. I wouldn't put him through the pain of banding, for something that tiny, that will just grow back.:cowboy:


Thank you!!! I will definitely wait to talk to the vet. I hope to see her SOON when the doe kids. Your right, I wouldn't want to put him in undue pain or stress. His scurs don't bother me or anything else around here.


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

vvfarm said:


> my brother works at the sale barn and told me a funny story about some sheep wethers that recently came thru. They were declared wethers by the owner but seemed mighty ramy. The workers were convinced they were rams but upon investigation found the wethers/rams didn't have anything hanging. So they asked the owner how he castrated them. He said he bands them. Well, ok. There's nothing there so it clearly worked. The next load of wethers to come thru from this farmer also seemed like rams. So they asked the farmer to describe how he bands them.
> "well, i push the nut back in and put the band on underneath. Why?"
> gaaahh! I don't know how anyone could make such a mistake. All his wethers were rams.


hahahahahahahahahahha. Even a newbie like myself would know better. Hahahahhahahahahaahaha


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

I breed Toggenburgs and here in Australia the gene pool is getting harder to find un related goats. So Ive put son over mother and brother over sister no worries.The results are WOW nice kids 
Ive had a buck kid born with one testical but on further feeling it was up inside and did decend when he was a few weeks old.
I also have in the past missed one as it had slipped out of the band and that "buck" was fertile !! We managed to grab enough skin and leftover boy to band him and it fell off without any problems,Teejae


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

He looks just like my seven month old wether that had the crimping method done. They keep their sack and their testicles don't grow anymore. A typical male 2 year old goat would have testicles 4 inchs long. Mine was done with the biz method, crimping and he has a testicle about a inch long. I had my vet check him and she said he was indeed fixed!


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## Flowerfarmher (Feb 11, 2016)

Thanks everyone. I'm not ignoring you guys on pupose. My appendix ruptured Thursday night and have been in the Hospital since.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Ouch! Feel better!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get well soon, sorry you are not feeling well.


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