# Cashmere? Angora? Pygora? Spanish?



## Duchesse (Oct 31, 2007)

What are the differences? Differences in height, weight, fibers that are produced?

I do know that the pygora is the cross between the angora doe and the pygmy buck. I love all minis. 

How much does a pygora on average weigh at adulthood? Are some as small as a pygmy? 

Do they all require twice yearly shearing? 


The cashmere goat produces mohair :shrug: that is graded as cashmere if it has a certain consistency :shrug: 

The angora goat produces mohair as well, can an angora also produce cashmere?

I know that angora rabbits produce angora. :ROFL: 

Help me with these fiber producing goats. 

What do they weigh at birth? At adulthood? 

Are they easy to raise? 

What about that pesky shearing? :hair: 

The angora and the cashmere goat look scary the pygora is cute. 

And now I'm hearing that the spanish goat can also produce fibers. :shocked: I thought that was a meat goat. 

Can someone enlighten me? :help: 

Anyone have some links with good pictures of these breeds?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Let me see if I can help you out here.

Pygora goats are a cross between a Pygmy and a Angora goat, Yes. They produce a fiber that is either a A, B or a C. A is like a Angora fiber, it has to be sheered. :hair: B is like Cashmere and Angora type together, can be combed and has to be sheered some, and Ci is like Cashmere, that is just combed out.

Cashmere produce CASHMERE fiber, not Mohair. Cashmere fiber is figured my the micron count, (diam of the fiber). 14-19.9. The only way to get the micron count of the cashmere is to have it sent to a lab, and they test it. They say that Cashmere Fiber is the only fiber fit for a KING

Angora goats produce Mohair, and only Mohair. It has to be sheered twice a year, and that is the only way to get it off.

Angora rabbits produce Angora fiber. So if you go to the store and you purchase a Angora sweater, then that is the rabbit. Most people think the goat.

I can only test to my Cashmere goats and Angora goats. They weight anywhere up to 91/2 lbs, (that is my largest). My buck is about 250 lbs.
I do not know at all what you mean about Cashmere and angoat goats looking scary, they are just as sweet as any other goat, then they can be brats just like the others. The reason people thing that Pygora's are so sweet looking, (not that they are not), it is because of the size. Just like the Pygmy goats. 
Some people are worried about the horns on the Angora and Cashmere. They have to have those horns, if they do not, then they can have a heat stroke very easy. That is how they release their body heat (that is how all goats do it, but everyone burns them off), but a fiber goat, if they do not have them they will felt their fiber.

About the Spanish goat. They are known to be crossed with the Cashmere goats. That way people can have a big goats, that is a meat goat and a fiber goat.
really any goat can produce CASHMERE LIKE FIBER, it just will not be a good quality. It would be in the 19.9 Micron and above.

I Love my cashmere goats, and I would never give them up for any other type of goat.

Cashmere are known to be the ONLY goat to eat all the Noxious weed. Others will eat weeds, but not the Noxious ones. That is why people take them all over the place to do a ground control. Now I am not saying others do not do a good job, it is just that Cashmere eat the thistles, and the other stuff that the others do not.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

If you go to my website it has a whole talk about what cashmere is.


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## jBlaze (Oct 9, 2007)

wow, what a lot of questions! Sorry, not going to answer them by half, lol.

I was raised with dairy goats. I feel bad when the wethers become dinner, so I got some pygoras. For fiber animals, usually the wethers make the best fiber. (keep in ind that I am a dairy goat person, I enjoy raising goats and know nothing of fiber.)  
A pygora is a cross between angora and pygmy, I don't think it has to be one way or the other. There is a wide diversity within the pygora breed. Some are built like angora, some like pygmy. Some have thick long locks like an angora, some have shorter fuzzy locks. All fleece typs have their own unique benefits. I would recommend going to the Pygora Breeders Association website for tons more info. There are many sites with info on pygoras. Hawks Mountain Ranch is another that comes to mind.
I like the pygoras we got. We see the need to shear them twice a year. Shearing must be done carefully, spinners hate the short pieces of 'seconds' that are hard to avoid. I have seen where pygora fiber sells for $12 for an ounce of roving.

http://www.pygoragoats.org/ PBA
http://www.hmrpygoras.com/ HMR
http://members.tripod.com/~duhgoatman/pygora.htm great site, see the main site for all goat breeds, has sites and info on goat breeders.
http://www.superior-fibers.com/ where you can send fiber for processing.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi, well, I'm a goat newbie too, this is my first kidding season. But, I happen to have both Pygoras and Cashmere goats. 

I think my Cashmeres are not quite as big as Lori's, I think (I'm just guesstimating here) my Pygoras are in the 100lb range, my Cashmeres are in the 125-150lb range (one of my girls sounds like a horse when she runs)! During the summer they had a nice sleek look, the guard hair doesn't pick up (to much) weed poo poo, you know burs and crap. Mine are helping me reclaim a much neglected pasture, eating thisle, multi-floral rose, wild azelea, etc. I probably have an additional 15 to 20 ft of pasture all along the back fence, because of their efforts. As soon as I can get some electric fence up they will be going back past the fence, to continue the reclamation project! I'm combing a large amount of beautiful cashmere...I comb them several time over a few weeks to get it all. Haven't had any processed yet, but I may have enough this year (that would be two years production, but remember I only have 4 does, :girl: :girl. My goats are a little wild, they'd just like to be left alone. Very quiet, they make almost no noise! Very pretty!

The Pygoras absolutely should be sheared, combed, whatever twice/yr...although I've been lax about that. They have a wooley look (almost like a sheep) and mine are very sweet, they like to be paid attention...actually they demand it! They are the most vocal of all my goats. They do pick up all the weed poo poo, so I keep them in a cleaner pasture, closer to the house. I was a little surprised how big they got, they are somewhat shorter then the Cashmeres, but they are wider, stockier. They produce more fiber though, I haven't had any processed yet. Probably this year.

By the way, Angora goats (I had two 20 yrs ago) produce Mohair. Angora rabbits produce Angora. Cashmere goats produce Cashmere. 

Sorry this is so long, I'll stop now, good luck! Di


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

FYI here are some pics of my girls (some of these may be "out of fleece" pics taken last summer)

Whitney-Pygora doe









Willa-Pygora doe









Well, I only have one pic of the Cashmeres on my new computer, this is Hallie Barrie (because she's so beautiful)









I've got to take some new pics of the Cashmere girls. Di


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## Duchesse (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks everyone! The goat spot is the place to go for any goat info! :thumb: 

I'm new to goats. I love minis. I hope to have a small collection . I don't want a herd that is too large to board or too large for me to handle. I hope to keep my herd under 12. :ROFL: 

I love the pygmy, myotonic, nigi, kinder, and I think the pygora is cute. I might also get a tiny mini saanen, they look so feminine. 

The Angora seems to be the largest of the fiber goats and since I'm partial to miniature goats, if I were to consider a fiber goat it would be a pygora or a cashmere. Although my interest is not in fiber (I do it for fun :stars: ) if I had a fiber goat I'd probably learn something about processing the fiber so that I could use the small amount that I might accumulate for my personal use. 

Although no one mentioned the meat of either of these goats I did read that the Angora is the "best chevon" according to all the goat experts. Some noted Texas breeders are crossing the Angora with the boer for what is called the "diamond meat". 

I don't want to go off topic or gross anyone out but has anyone tasted the meat of any of these fiber goats and if so was it better than any other goat meat?


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## sweetpea (Jun 10, 2008)

I am a newbie to fiber goats. I just got 7 Pycazz. I was told they are a cross between pigmy and cashmere. My girls have long curly, silky fine fleece. They are so sweet and want attention all the time. I have 3 white, 2 black, a greyish brown, and a buterscotch color. The grey brown, Maggie Mae, is my favorite and seems the have the finest fleece. They are all about 4 months old. 
My question is should I be combing them or just shear them this spring?
Sweetpea :horse:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Sweetpea, I do believe someone is trying to start a new type of goat. All goats can get a cashmere type fleece, but they have to have the Micron count of a 19 or less to be a Cashmere with a length of 1-1/2" and great style.
Now Cashmere "blow" their fleece after Jan. I do have a few babies that are 6 months old that are loosing their fleece, but I will not brush them out because I need them to have as much as possible for the show ring. They are blowing it now because it is so hot.

Do you goats still have horns or Please don't tell me that they dehorned them like they do the Pygmy's. Cashmere goats can over heat VERY easy and die of a heat stroke because of the fiber that they have on them and they will not sweat at all, they release their body heat out their horns.


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## sweetpea (Jun 10, 2008)

Sadly, mine were dehorned when I got them. I personally do not like dehorning. The horn makes for a nice natural handle when needed. I was told when I got them the no horns were a breed standard. That they were being billed as a family freindly pet.
Where do you send fiber be be graded and when do you send it. Also, It was mentioned about shows. When and where are they and can you go just to watch?
Sweetpea :horse:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Sweetpea, where are you located at? 

The breed standard is dehorned Pygmy (if they are registered but NOT mandatory) not cashmere goat, if they are dehorned they are disqualified. If they are polled that is different. 
I send my fiber to Yocom McColl to be tested. I do it like now if I could get my act together. It is $7.50 per sample I believe unless you send in like oh 25 samples, then it goes down. I will have to find the website. 
Just make sure that they have plenty of shade and fresh water to help them stay cool. I was at a show and a Cashmere goat died from a heat stroke. He was not dehorned but they put Mineral oil on the horns to shine them up. That is just as bad as not having horns.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Sweetpea, regarding the shear/comb question. Sounds like someone is breeding mini-cashmeres? Do you have pics for us? Well, since you comb cashmere goats, I'm assuming you'd also comb yours. Mine start blowing fleece in Feb-March. So I start collecting it then. If you wait to long you'll have really pretty fence (covered in cashmere) like mine. I use a "matt busting comb" for dogs, it really worked well. The teeth are in two rows and not to tight, and not like the wire slicker brushes.

I did not shear my bottle baby buckling last year. I did try to comb some of the fleece he was born with, but it didn't come out like I thought it would. He shed it this spring like the rest. But, I felt bad all last summer because I was afraid he was hot. 

So, Lori, if we aren't showing our kids...should we do anything the first summer?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

If you are not showing ans it is coming off with out any work then go ahead and brush it if you would like. yes they are hot but not as bad as you would think because it is very fine. The other reason I try to leave it is if you comb it now then you will lose the length of the fiber, but if it is coming off anyway then that is no big deal.

I am really bummed because my baby buck's fiber all came off his neck, so when we show this weekend it will not look like he has full coverage all over his body. :GAAH: He was so full of fiber last week. Oh well i will see how it goes anyway.


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

I have a question.
I have a couple of Fainters that produce some cashmere. I got some of their cashmere is Feb./march and put it in a a zip lock bag. Could i send this off to get it tested? I didn't know if it would be lower quality since it's been stored.
I'm just curious as to what theirs come in as.
Also, do you have a link or something to where you send the fiber off to?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Sure you can send it in for a test. Now if it is not very long they can do the test but it will not be real accurate. Just because it has to be at LEAST 1 inch long because of the way they slice it up to be tested. I took my 4H group to them a few years ago and we learned how they do the test. It is really cool.

It is no problem at all if it is in a zip lock bag, that is how all mine is stored, to take it to shows except they are the bags that are the ones that they show on TV for storing toys and so on.

Anyway here is the web site that I send my fiber to be tested.

http://www.ymccoll.com/sampling.html


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I thought I read that you should store your fleece in paper bags, that the plastic bad would cause the fiber to felt?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Di, We have to take the fiber in a plastic bag to all the shows, now what I do is I leave one corner open so it can breath, and it it gets lot the heat can escape.
I leave mine in the bags (plastic) all show season and longer. I s=do think it you are in a humid area then you might have to treat it different but we are so dry here, maybe that is the difference.


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## dastardlydeed (Oct 2, 2008)

i am looking for a female Pygora...closer to pygmy in size/build, with horns, more of the angora coat, all white or mostly white. this is for a family pet only, no breeding, so the fiber quality isnt an issue. particular about size and color as the goats (we will have one more pygmy doe) will travel with us to military functions.

thank you


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would say in this order from largest to smallest.
1. Spanish
2.Cashmere
3. Angora
4. Pygora.

Now some of the Angora are smaller then some Pygora. It just depends.

The Cashmere and the Angora goats NEED their horns. I personally believe the Pygora's do also. I judged a show this summer and I judged Pygora's. When you felt down to their skin, they were clammy and you can just see and feel how hot they were. When you felt down to the skin on the Cashmere goats, they were not hot or clammy at all, but if you feel their horns and really at the base, that is where they are the hottest.
I was at a show a few years ago when a Cashmere goat died of a heat stroke because she had no horns to release her body heat. It was really sad, all because someone didn't want to DEAL with her horns, but they are born with them for a reason.


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## dastardlydeed (Oct 2, 2008)

thanks for the info................


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

sweetgoats said:


> Cashmere are known to be the ONLY goat to eat all the Noxious weed. Others will eat weeds, but not the Noxious ones. That is why people take them all over the place to do a ground control. Now I am not saying others do not do a good job, it is just that Cashmere eat the thistles, and the other stuff that the others do not.


Your sold me!!! I will take 10!!! LOL 20 if they eat burr dock!!! :greengrin:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

SOLD. I will let you know when that are born. :ROFL: 

The darn bucks broke down the fence yesterday and bred well lets just say a LOT of the does. I think most all might be bred. :scratch: I am NOT at all happy about it.  
I guess at least the youngest will be a year old when she delivers. :GAAH: 

OH yes they will eat burr dock.


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

REally? Burrdock . . . okay now I am serious I would like one or two, but i don't seem to be able to find any cashmere goats in WI. At least not on the internet. Co is a little far to come and get some LOL


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I have someone coming from Indiana to get some.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I am going to jump into this thread with Angora info.

Hope my conversions are right here.

My angora kids weight approx 3.5kg (7.7 lbs) at birth although I have had some as low as 1.7kg (3.7 lbs) and as high as 6kg (13.2 lbs). I tend to have twins and singles, triplets and quads are not as common in Angoras as they are in meat and dairy breeds.

As yearlings, they tend to weigh around 25 - 30 kg (55.1 - 66.1 lbs).

By joining time at 1 1/2 yrs old they are weighing about 45 kg (99.2 lbs). At maturity my does weigh around 60 to 70 kg (132.2 - 154.3 lbs) although there is a lot of variation within the breed, many are smaller and mature out at only 50kg (110.2 lbs) and there are also some does which end up around 90 kg (198.4 lbs) though these are few and far between.










Bucks at joining age (1 1/2 yrs) should weigh at least 60 kg (132.2 lbs). At maturity they can get up to 110 kgs for the really big guys (242.5 lbs).

They are shorn twice a year, and again there is a lot of variation within the breed, with some mature does giving 2.1 kg per shearing (4.6 lbs) but the majority of mine give 3 to 4 kg (6.6 - 8.8 lbs). My bucks give me upwards of 5 kg per shearing (11 lbs) and one wether (who I should never have castrated) gave me 7.2 kg in one shearing (15.8 lbs). The length at shearing time should be 6 inches, as healthy mohair should grow 1 inch per month.

Micron can vary from 18 right up to 40 +. Kid mohair is classed as that under 30 micron, strong kid is 27 and under 30. Micron gets larger as the animal gets older, though with the right genetics you can get kid fleece off an adult doe - I have one doe at the moment (Lulu) who has 25 micron fleece on her fifth fleece.

Prices recieved for the fleece are dependent on quality. Kid mohair recieves from $25/kg up to $50/kg (Australian dollars). Now, with good quality stock, you can get up to 4 kg per shearing, if it is kid quality we are talking big money here. Particularly if it keeps it up for five shearings. Adult mohair can recieve as much as $15/kg and as low as $4/kg. Recently it has been stable around $10/kg.

Temperament is good generally, and I find they are easier on my fences than my boers and dairy cross. Lori, mine DO eat noxious weeds - my property was entirely full of them, you name it we had it, and they are doing a fantastic job recovering the pasture. Pasture management is the biggest thing, so you get them to eat it down before it seeds, for a quicker kill but also to keep the fleeces clean.

On the meat side of things, I eat both my angoras and my boers, there isnt really any taste difference, they are both YUMMY! But the thing is you dont get as much with the angoras. With my angora wethers, I take the first two shearings off them and slaughter at 1 1/2 yrs old when they are full fleeced with their third fleece - that way they are grown out more, I get the good fleeces and I also have a nice skin to tan.


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## FancyAppy (Oct 21, 2008)

This is a very interesting and informative thread. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and pics.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree, an excellent thread. Woah, that pic of mine was supposed to end up at the end of the post, not in the middle :shrug:


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