# Furious with our LGD



## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I just went out this morning to find our pyrenees had eaten one of the does horns. There is at least 1/2" missing on the end of eat horn. I am about ready to go out and shoot him. I put some lick guard on it, but I don't know what else to do. Has anyone ever experienced this? What can I do? My only though that was to put in him the pen with our buck that HATES his horns even touched, but as soon as I put him back with the does I feel like hes just going to do it again. I love this dog, but the only reason he is here is to watch over our does and kids. He does his job keeping things out of the pasture, but other than that hes been a pain in the a$$ chasing goats, chewing on kids legs. I'm so fed up with him.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Is he very young? The breeder tells me you have to hang out with him for a couple days and wallop him for bad behavior. I don't own one so I'm passing information from another source.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

Doesn't sound like a very good guardian if he's injuring the goats. Perhaps he can protect from the other side of the fence from the goats.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

He just turned a year old yesterday. He behaves himself when I am around to yell at him and is great for a while, then just "forgets" and starts misbehaving again. The other little things he does wasn't the big issue as I know he is still a puppy and we punish him for it. But chewing on the goat horns is intolerable. I am here quite a bit, but I can't just sit our there 24/7 to make sure he is not chewing on my goats. He is only here to protect my does and kids, I don't need him in the buck fields, and I have a horse in with my other does so don't need him their either. I have been to a farm before and their pyrenees had eaten their buck horns down so far he was a bloody mess. 
Our property is not fenced in from the outside, so he would just run away if not in the fence. And I already have a pitbull that is on the outside of the fence and does a good job of keeping things off the property when she is outside. So I am not going to keep a working dog around thats not doing his job.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

How does he keep them still to chew their horns? Does he hold them down? :shocked: 

I would be nervous he would be too rough w/the kids if he chews on the adults--IMO

Are you sure he is the culprit? I have a little doeling and the tip of both her horns would look like a dog chewed them if I did not know better-but I guess she is shedding the ends of them? She is scraping the tips off herself. 

We have pyrenees rescues in our area that re-home confirmed LGD's that need new herds to guard. Then they also find homes for "pet" type pyreenes. Maybe you could search for one in your area and see if they would work a deal w/you where you would pay less for the trained LGD but let them re-home current dog as a pet?

Hopefully he did not chew the horn on one of your new does ray:


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## mjhetz (Sep 20, 2010)

I don't know if this will get him off the hook or not, but I caught one of my does chewing on the horns of my other does. I had noticed the ones horns looking rather fuzzy, but thought nothing of it until I looked out the window later and saw her aunt busy chewing away<G>

Mary Jane 
Second Star on the Right Farm
Ithaca, NY


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I am afraid that if the dog is a year old and you have had him since he was a pup, this behavior will only get worse. I have seen it. 

I too have a Pry, that infortunattly I will be putting down when I butcher my wether. She is a super dog, but has many problems. She will not get along with the other dogs and has an ear infection I can't seem to get rid of. I cannot leave her out with the goats as they terorize her to pieces. One of my does mom was killed by a dog and she hates mine with a passion!She also has bad hips..very badly bred dog I am afraid. I love her but she fights with everyone and I cannot seem to stop it. Sometimes I feel she is just miserable because she cannot seem to find her place here. I cannot re-home her as she doesn't like other people. If I could find a home for her where she would be the only dog and have a secure yard to live in, believe me I would give her up in a heart beat! Each day is gets worse, so I feel it is better to put her down and out of her misery. She is almost 4 and I do not see any changes happening.

If you could re-home this dog then that is what you should check in to. There is a nother LGD out there for you! I am sorry that you have to go throught his..I know how it feels!

I posted the same time as someone esle. Yes, make sure first that it is this dog doing the damamge, before you make a decision.


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## nonconformist (Nov 14, 2011)

At just one year old and sounds like a single dog by itself, it is just too young to be left completely alone with the livestock. A 1 year old LGD is still a large puppy and without another mature LGD with it all the time it has no one to learn from. This time of year everything gets frisky and acts different. Maybe it's the cooler weather and lack of bugs.

It also doesn't sound like from your post that you witnessed the dog chewing on the horns to cause the damage. Without actually seeing it chew on the horns you can't be positive of what caused the damage. You also can't correct them in the act. Is there any sign on the dogs mouth of horn chewing or do you see dog teeth marks on the remaining horn?

You could try a drag temporarily or just let it mature in a paddock beside the goats for a while. I rarely ever see mature trained LGD's for sale but that might be another option. I think Bountiful Farms occasionally sells mature trained dogs.

Hope this helps some.


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

Burns Branch Boers said:


> How does he keep them still to chew their horns? Does he hold them down? :shocked:


I was wondering this also. It seems as though the goat would be screaming bloody murder! But then, maybe it's different because the goats are so trusting of their LGD?


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

We did see the dog chewing on the horns after I posted, even after I put the lick guard on. I went right out and moved him to the buck field. And yes there is most definately dog teeth marks.

ETA: she is standing there letting him do it, she seems to enjoy it oddly enough. Its just the one doe that is letting him to it at the moment.

Do you think he might outgrow it? Or should I just assume he is always going to do it? I know the buck he is in with now won't let him do it... I'm not too sure about the wether though. I know I can't put him back in the field with the does, hes just going to keep doing it and once he gets to blood hes REALLY going to want to chew on her. Shes one of my nicest does too and had a beautiful hornset. I'm going to have to grind them down to even out the jagged ends now


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Left to go to the inlaws for dinner, and when we came back our pyrenees had dug under the gate and was back in with the does :angry: He hadn't chewed on the doe anymore. I gooped her horns up again with lick guard, I don't know what to do :shrug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

i would not tolerate that behaviour. i wpuld be afraid that chewing on legs and horns and chasing them would lead to killing a kid. i would be moving him on. but thats just my very biased opinion, as i couldnt bring myself to leave any dog woth my goats, thats why i have an alpaca instead


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know the dog, but I have to say I don't think I'd trust a dog like that. One taste of blood is all it takes for some dogs.


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

We also have a GP who is just shy of a yr. What kind of training have you done with this pup? Have you tried to put him on a chain/cable tie in the pen with the goats so that he can't chase them, or chew on them? I ask bc we got our girl the same day that most of last yrs kids were born, she was kept in a dog kennel in the barn with the goats, just not able to interact unsupervised, and we would let her out supervised for like an hour a day, walk her around the property, and do basic training with her. Although she now insists upon staying outside the goat pen, you can almost always find her right next to it, or in the loafing barn, next to the pen. I would personally try a shock collar, have one haven't tried it on the GP yet, but soon will be. It worked really well for our Corgi who wouldn't leave the horse's alone, she thought they shocked her and suddenly had a new respect for them.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

We did get him as a pup, and he was kept in a stall inside the barn, then brought out for supervised visits. He did not chase the goats when he was younger at all. It started when he was maybe 5 months?


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I would give that thether/chain system a try. I know they sell the sets--I have not seen any as I have no need for them but when I was little I remember my family's golden retriver would go out to the back yard-there was a plastic covered cable that went from one tree to another and a cable on it. The dog could run back and forth and lay down and go side to side a bit but the access was restricted on where the dog could go.

I know our pyrenees stayed in the pen w/our does ONLY until she was comfortable enough w/us to find her new spot :greengrin: over a few months she moved herself out of the actual goat pen/pasture and she stays in front of our barn now-she patrolls both the does pasture and the buck pen. 

If you could find away to keep him out of the pen w/the girls? He could still do his job--but then you said you had a pet for that. :shrug:


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I put him back with the buck this morning and put a big cement post under the gate so he can't dig back in again. I could chain him, but I don't think that would stop the horn chewing because the doe comes to him and lets him do it. I'm just going to try to keep him away from her for a while. And probably all winter too because I don't want him messing with my kids. If I catch him doing anything to the buck or wether he is gone.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

Our GP was the same way.We got her at 5 months old and she was fine for awhile but then started this bad behavior "playing" chasing the goats.I scolded her everytime I caught her.She is now alittle over 2yrs old and it does get better as they mature but it has to be corrected. We put our GP on a zip line when it's kidding time because you just never know.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Horn chewing is a bit bizarre.... and a goat allowing it to happen is even more bizarre... :scratch: If the Doe isn't something you want to keep in your herd...maybe sell her... so the GP doesn't have the option to chew on horns anymore...it will stop the behavior... because she is the instigator for the GP to continue to learn this behavior.....I find it very unusual for a goat to allow a dog to do that.... because they hate it when we hold them by the horns or try to catch them by their horns..... If you should decide to find her another home...Still do supervised visits ......with the goats and the GP.. Good luck... :hug:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I do have to wonder why a goat would even allow a dog to chew on their horns in the first place. They have those horns for a reason and should know how to use them on an irritating dog. I know my does are not going to tolerate any dog getting too close at all. The older Does like our dog but her bounding energy as a German Short Hair/Aussie mix gets them a little nerved at times and they are not tolerant of her running past them in a flury chasing a squirrel. She has learned to stay clear of the older does & move slowly past them. The younger ones tolerate her licking their ears and face all the time but even they will head butt her if it becomes too much for them.. I am not sure that this can be changed for this dog without a considerable effort to re-route the dog's brain or without having some dog wise goats to train your dog. I know it is possible but not without a lot of work. I think it's a combination of the goat's behavior and the dog who is still a young dog that has to learn what it's purpose is and it's expectations are. This will be a hard training for a while, but probably not impossible.. just needs the right solution..and a lot of supervision.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I do agree that the goat's behavior is encouraging this in your dog. Perhaps the best solution is to get rid of that doe.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

But if the dog wasn't there, then the goat's horns wouldn't get chewed on. The dog is the bigger problem imo. If you get rid of the doe, what's to say the dog won't go after another goat for something else? My dog is a beloved family member and we would never get rid of her, but this dog is a working dog and is not fulfilling its purpose so the dog should be the one to go. Or retrained.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I don't know why she liked it, it seems strange to me too. The dog has been good with the buck and wether so far. I did hear him yelping last night, so I am guessing he did something that irritated the buck and the buck goat after him. I didn't see anything going one when I went to check. 
I definately don't want to get rid of the doe, shes too nice to part with.


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

As someone already mentioned he is still very much a puppy and needs training. LGD's take a while to mature and one big mistake people make is throwing them in with the livestock and think they will just figure it out. Yes, a lot of it is instinct but they still need to be taught what is allowed and what is not. If you have older, seasoned LGD's in with them they will keep the puppies in line but other wise it is up to you. I would keep him in with the bucks except when you are around. Put him in with the does only when you are there to reprimand and a shock collar does work wonders. We used one on our anatolian when she was younger and went through chicken chasing phase. It only took a couple zaps. Much more effective than scolding or a spanking since they are so smart they learn what they can get away with you are gone.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you don't want to get rid of the Doe... that is your decision..I respect that....but... if you try to get another GP... who's to say... she won't allow this to happen with a new Pup and repeat this pattern....... I do want to say that ....horn chewing is a new one in my book... never heard of it happening before and a doe allowing it.... Just so ...strange.... it is either get rid of the Dog or the Doe....but the way I am seeing it is.....keeping the Doe is risky.... if you want to start anew with a GP again... if it were me... if I didn't want to rid the Doe ...I'd definitely keep the Doe from the dog..... The GP is still learning and if that is the only thing that he is doing wrong......but it is because one Doe is allowing it....then... if you rid the source... either by separating the GP from the Doe or getting rid of the Doe...he will have a better chance in the learning and correction process...... that is why... monitoring the GP at all times while learning is so important... in case the GP messes up then he or she ...can be corrected and know right from wrong.......
The GP is getting away with horn chewing because the goat allows it..... but I believe the other goats(bucks) are teaching him a good lesson.... 

Just remember..the GP is not allowed to touch a goat what so ever..in any way shape or form (off limits) it is wise what you did is to put the GP in with the bucks ...they are very good teachers........ the GP will take about 2 years until he/she matures....... :wink:


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