# sick preganant goat need some insight



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have a pregnant goat that has polio and pregnancy toxemia I not sure when she is due but I know its in this time area I noticed this morning she has been grindn her teeth and kickn around a lot. Her vulva is swollen and her ligaments are soft she has bn actn like she is pushn all day but I haven't seen any changes ? what do I do? what do I need to look for she ant stand up because shes weak from being sick so how do I tell if shes in labor or not?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

grinding of the teeth is gut pain...what is the reason you suspect polio and preg. Tox? what are her symptoms beside weakness?

I would be giving her cd antitoxin, B complex with high Thiamine or straight thiamine..I would also give her Molasses or Propolyn Glycol...

She could be going into labor....she will most likley need your help if so since she is so weak


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a good quote for PT



> When Pregnancy Toxemia occurs, a dramatic change in feed will not solve the problem. Instead, divide her grain into three or four small meals each day. Make sure that she eats a lot of top-quality grass hay. Leave fresh, clean water out free choice. Also offer some warm water laced with molasses or apple juice to encourage water consumption. The doe needs to drink a lot of water to flush toxins from her kidneys. An occasional handful of alfalfa hay may prove helpful. Proplylene glycol dosed at 60 cc orally twice a day can be used, but this product is hard on her kidneys and goats usually don't like it. An alternative to propylene glycol is a combination of 50% dextrose diluted with an equal amount of water and given orally at a rate of 60 cc twice per day. Molasses and water or Karo syrup and water can also be used. Get both Vitamin B12 and Fortified Vitamin B Complex into her, and orally drench her with GoatAde (www.goatsupplies.com). Feed the doe as many green leaves as she will eat; in off-growing season, pick dried leaves and offer them to her free choice. Oral administration of CMPK or MFO is desirable. Niacin at a rate of 1000 mg per day is helpful. Daily dosing with Goat Guard Probiotic Paste is advisable (www.goatsupplies.com). Moderate exercise is essential; do not allow the doe to be inactive.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I called a vet out when I went out to feed them sunday morning and I noticed she was drooling and seemed confused she was staggering around and I had a hard time getting in touch with a vet I finally found one that did goats and he came down and diagnosed her with it this is my first sick goat so I didn't know what I was looking at until now


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

how do I tell if she is in labor if I cant get her to stand up and I don't want to force her and risk hurting the baby


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

is she still on Thiamine? do you have white tail deer in your area? It best to treat for listeriosis at the same time as polio since both have the same symptoms...penicillin is needed at high doses http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

as for signs of labor...it might be hard to tell with her since she is ill...normally you will see restlessness, loose rear end, babies will drop under mom, discharge, ligs will be gone, udder full and tight, with her being so ill, she will most likley need help and you need to be prepared to bottle raise the kids...if mom makes it through this she will not have the strength to raise them...you will want to milk as much colostrum out of her to give the babies a good start..if you donthave goats milk to raise them on, get whole cows milk...have bottles and nipples on hand as well as nutra drench and BoSe ( or the selenium vit. e gel)


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

yes she is still on the thiamine she is showing a big improvement she wants to walk but when I help her stand up her neck is bent? She cant seem to keep it straight could it be from her laying down so long with her neck bent in that direction? is it something that will right itself as she gets better? I haven gotten her to eat some yesterday but today she doesn't seem interested


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

as long as she is not eating she will grow weaker, her baby/babies are taking what they need to grow...You may need to drench her food...if you soak alfalfa pellets to a mush and drench her with a turkey baster...I would start the penicillin...if she had polio she would have shown more improvment on the Thiamine...I would also get her up as much as you can...support her so she doesnt fall....then use a hay bale or something to prop her up when she lays down...but you need to get her moving if you can..excersise her legs to keep muscle ...keep hay in front of her at all times along with electrolytes...

for her neck, massage and help her move it to the natural state..go slow, massage with warm towels ect...


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

im goin to get the penicillin today I read that there is another disease that causes pregnancy toxemia and that caused the polio so im goin to try that


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Listeriosis and Polio both have the same symptoms..its a good idea to treat for both 

Best wishes for a quick recovery and safe delivery!


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

how long before I will see improvements from the penicillin if it is that?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Its hard to say, it can days to weeks to see improvment...:-(


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

right now its bn a week since she showed signs of being sick I have been doing everything I can to get her better she is showing improvement but she is not better I hope this works bc if it doesn't the only other option is to put her down and I would hate to do that


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand...its a hard call..you will know when to make that choice...hopefully she will deliver and grow in strength...:hug:


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

right now I have her up and she still wont drink anything I tried to syringe it to her last nite and she spit it out same with food she keeps pushing like she is in labor but I don't see any discharge but she is pushn hard and when she does she bleats out and the relaxes I have no clue what she is doing im startn to wonder


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I also noticed she was straining and bleating when she peed too?:think:


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

is her udder tight? could be early labor, getting the babies in place, can be hard laying down..

You may need to tub her to get fluid down her...it will be stressful, but dehydration is far worse...


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

ive never tubed anything and yes her udder is tight buts its small she has been doing this pushing for two days that is what has me puzzled if she was goin to have them then why is it taking so long and why isn't she showing anymore signs:thinking:


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she is actively pushing and nothing is happening, then I would get a vet out. Without physically seeing what she is doing, it is hard to give the right advice over the internet.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have called a vet and asked them and they said if there is not discharge or some kind of goo comin out then she might just be having false labor pains and theres the peeing too she strains as she does


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What did your vet say about that?


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

well see my vet doesn't do goats the one I have been speaking to does large animals but hes not really experienced in goats either there r not many people who do goats in my area and the ones that do r far far away I really wish I could find a vet on here or online that was cheap but until then I just have to go by others experience


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

now im being told she could have low blood calcium idk what to do I cant afford to have the expensive vet come out again


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can get CMPK and give that to her. If you do a search on here, you can find what you need to do. Crossroad Boers went through this so there is a lot of info on how they treated it.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have the calcuim drench from tractor supply, Im sure its not as good as the CMPK which has more goodies in it..but it works...It either taste bad or burns cause they fuss when given it..I follow through with a drench of water, I also make sure I get it behind the tongue...
I would also drench her with 50/50 molasses water or Propolyene Glycol...or even nutra drench
How is she eating? drinking? Poops still berries?


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

she has started wanting to get up and I help her up her neck is bent ( they say that from the polio) she wont drink on her own or eat so I put it in her mouth and she chews and swallows I have to drench the water to her. I have been using the electrolytes mixed into the water for her and I have a power punch I have been drenching her she has been peeing but I have not seen her poop since Saturday. Is that a bad sign? I thought maybe because she hasn't really eaten anything she might not have anything to poop out. im running low on the b1 shots I have to get some more


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would make her get up with help of course and keep her moving..not pooping is not good..toxins build up from poop being stored too long..you will need to get food into her ....make a moosh of alfalfa pellets or oatmeal even beet pulp..something to drench using a turkey baster ( since its thick)...If you arent already doing so CD antitoxin would be good to help rid the body of toxins...B complex for support..keep massaging her kneck and legs..make her mad if you have to to get her stimulated and moving...Your vet should be able to sell you a vile of Thiamine...it doesnt cost very much and good to have on hand...
You also mind find a lactate ringer to keep her hydrated might be less stressful for both of you..

Best wishes


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

explain the lactate ringer never heard of that? and CD antitoxin can I get that from tractor supply? or the vet ? is there anything natural I can feed her that will get rid of the toxins?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Lactated ringer, sorry lol..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/208/168/#.UufeeHfnbR0

CD antitoxin can be found in SOME farm supply store but I have not found them in my area and order from Jeffers, some vets keep in in stock.
http://goat-link.com/content/view/159/168/#.Uufe13fnbR0

Milk of magnesia can be used instead of cd antitoxin however it will cause loose stools and there for Hydration is VERY important...Again the Sub Q fluids would be helpful but with her not pooping right now it wouldnt hurt her a bit to flush her system ...MOM is 15 cc per 60# orally, 


> Milk of Magnesia should be dosed orally at 15 cc per 60 lbs bodyweight and given every four to six hours until the goat passes clumps of feces and then goes back to making normal pills


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have been wracking my brain of things to offer her to eat and I thought about the vines that I pull out the trees for them they just love them. if they see me pulling on one they all come running so I went out and got some and offered it to her and tadaaaaaa she took right to it and started eating it on her own I was so relieved I started laughing im sure she thought I was crazy lol maybe this is a sign that the meds are working and she will pull through I hope it is still would like ur advice though


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I thank all of u for ur support yall have helped keep my hopes up when so many others were pushing them down


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That IS a good sign...that she wants to eat, somtimes its finding what they cant refuse....keep up the good work..I dont give up until I know the goats given up...Sometimes we still loose the battle but many times we succeed..


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

she pooped today they r still pellets they had a goo on them though and it was a small amount


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

pooping is good news...Good could be from her not pooping a while, discharge, worm issue...


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

she is eating but she still not really interested in water idk if she just doesn't have the taste for it or what I wanted to try the molasses water how do u make that ? have never tried it.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Try this recipe...see if she will drink it, most goats love it... if not the link given has a bunch of other recipes...
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/home-made-electrolytes-155895/

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I took a picture of her today so u could see what im talking about with her neck I don't know what to think of it.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

this is Hershey now


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

the think with nerological issues is even after recovery some things cant be fixed..doing Physical therapy may help.. I would try very warm compresses and massaging..working her neck slowly, you dont want to force it, since that may injure her further, but to gradually get it back in shape...


----------



## samba1 (Jan 2, 2014)

good luck with your goat, i hope all goes well.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

im just worried how it's going to effect her when she has the baby im going to prepare myself to bottle feed it but need to know the things to get ahead of time just in case tht happens


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

She may be an amazing mom, but its a good idea to be prepared..: )


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

also her rumen is hard its not bloated looking like her other side is how do I fix that? I think that is why she is not eatingmuch and she only poops one or two pellets at a time


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

She may need an enemia to help move things along...constipation can make her sick..she doesnt need any more challenges right now...

I mix an oil and warm water ememia...the left over oil in the intestines help keep things moving..you can use a hair dyeing bottle...it might take several to fill her up..then massage her tummy..it can take some time so be patient : )


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

what kind of oil should I use like cooking oil? olive oil? vegetable oil?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I use olive but any veg oil will do...


----------



## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Offer warm water they often prefer it to cold. I use mineral oil an warm water for an enema. Good luck


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Do you have a due date for this doe? 

We had a pregnant doe do the same thing. You mentioned that she looked like she was pushing? When our pregnant doe got polio she also looked like she was pushing, but like your doe there was never any discharge or progress. We actually gave her shots to induce her a day after we first noticed her pushing and still after several days she never pushed them out. After she passed away, I read that when goats have polio they have body contractions. So your doe may not be going into labor.

I would really recommend getting some kind of high energy supplement in her to keep her going. Like Nutri-drench or Dyne. Since she is not eating and also pregnant she really needs some energy.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she she doing?


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have weaned her off the vitamin b1(vet recommended) and im starting to get her off the penncillian she is getting back to normal. No more pushing like she is in labor. She wasn't using the bathroom regular so I gave her some MOM and we went out and bought a mineral block for them and some probios I put some in her water she is drinking on her own now no more drench and she is walking better not wobbly like before. My only concern is she doesn't want any hay at all! and she isn't eating like normal she nibbles here and there but never really eats. She is constantly burping up cud and chewing it. its constant not like when she lays down and does it she can be walking and stop chew cud then swallow and keep walking. Is that normal?


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

no im not sure of a due date I did see her get bred on Oct.3 that was the only time I saw him mess with her was that day. But he could have done something on another day when I was not out there


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hum...ive not seen that behavior before...its good she is chewing a cud and she may increase her eating more as she grows stronger...When is she due again? Some heavy bred does eat less because baby takes alot of space


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I counted it up on the calendar from the day I saw her with him and it came up to March 2nd I couldn't feel her ligaments for the longest now I can start to feel them


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

so another month to go, if she is large or carring multiples they can take up alot of space and keep her from eating much, and at this late stage she needs to eat enough to sustain her and the growing babies...gather leaves hay an alfalfa, make her a nice mix and see if she ownt pick through for her favorites...


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

she doesn't look pregnant if u had seen her u would swear she wasn't but the fact I have felt the baby is the only way I can tell she is and that is has milk her belly isn't even expanded like she is carrying idk if the baby is just really small or what but at this rate she isn't eating enough to sustain herself much less her and the baby. like I said she nibbles maybe a bite here and there and no hay at all she doesn't want it


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is there a chance she lost the pregnancy due to all shes been through? You could drench her mushy alfalfa a few times a day...make alfalfa pellets real wet and mushy, use a turkey baster to drench her...


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I kept thinking that maybe the vet was wrong but I can see the baby moving and sometimes if im sitting with her and just petting her stomach I will feel it kick around so she has baby in there it just must be really small. Also my other doe was bred sometime in sept. will she be due in march or this month?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Rumen function can often be mistaken as baby movment...baby if on the right side and rumen on the left...I can only feel or see baby movement when my girls are carring multiples or a very large baby...not that it can be a baby you feel..just a thought..
On your doe bred in September, Yes...she will be due Feb. -3...what that means is if she was bred on the 15th...she will be due Feb 12th...( -3 days from the day she was bred)
Due dates are an estimate not a promise lol..but its good to know approx. date.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

vet verified she was pregnant said the baby was formed and the bones were formed I thought he was kidding until I felt it myself on the right side because her rumen was hard


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats great...lets try to encourage eating ....ideas are

Cooked oat meal with molasses
Mush Alfalfa pellets
chopped leaves. alfalfa or hay...anything to get her apptitite back up and going..

Are you still giving daily probioitcs?


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I went out and bought some probios and put it in here water I also drench some to her to make sure she got at least some and she has been drinking the water since her appetite has picked up she is eating oak leaves that haven't died quite yet and fallen off the trees I have been going out and trimming the leaves off and she eats them like they are irrisitable candy I let her have a handful of pellets and hay is free choice along with the green vines she likes. I have her off the meds completely. And I have a mineral block for her to use free choice to encourage drinking. How have I done?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You have done great!!!! I would switch out the mineral block for Loose minerals...blocks have too much salt and are hard to eat..: ) but other than that...GOOD JOB!!!


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

where can I get the loose minerals from in the store what are they called just minerals?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Manna Pro Goat Minerals is one good brand.


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Good job! Sounds like she will make a full recovery! :grin: Keep it up!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Onyx right now by cargil is also good loose minerals ...


----------

