# Breeding for more doelings...



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

So, in anticipation of breeding my does in the next month or so, I've been doing a lot of reading of older threads concerning the topic of breeding. In an old thread, someone suggested that flushing with grain would result in greater litter size but decreasing grain or eliminating it would signal the doe to produce more doe kids. The theory being that when conditions are good, a doe can support more kids and when conditions are poor, producing more doe kids would better insure the survival of the species. 

I was wondering if anyone breeds does just on a brush/pasture/hay diet (with access to minerals) and if they really do produce more female kids this way? I'm curious because I have a doe that got bred without me knowing it (didn't figure out until she started bagging up at 4 months bred) and all she got before pregnancy and the first 4 months of pregnancy was browse, grass hay and 1 cup of sweet feed daily. She produced two lovely doe kids. Where as my two does that were flushed and feed sweet feed, BOSS, and alfalfa pellets produced buck triplets and quads (2 does:2bucks). Now, the fact that my sneaky doe had twin doeling may very well be a coinincidence but I'd like to know if this tread is true for others.

So does anyone breed this way or does everyone flush? I would love to hear everyones opinions and experiances. Thanks.


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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

I have 20 does and 2 bucks. They live mainly off of the browse and rough/scrub pasture on 40 acres. They get sweet feed as a treat and during the winter months they share 1 bale of hay daily. My herd sire, a 310 lb Saanen, obviously gets as much as he wants of everything. I haven't made a conscious effort to increase or decrease food supplies before breeding season and we get about 65% doelings. Last spring was his best with 75%. This increase in does was the same season that I introduced raw ACV into everyone's water supply. Could be coincidence, but I add ACV to everyone's water now, bucks, does, and hens. I have noticed overall farm health has increased.
























Here are few multi seasonal pics to show the browse my goats live on.

Russell P. Hammonds


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

That's a pretty compelling doeling to buckling ratio. Thanks for sharing Russel. 

ps You've got some nice looking goats!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It seems like the idea behind it would work but I don't know if I buy it. All my dry does up till they are 4 months bred to out and eat brows.....mainly buck brush oak leaves and weeds. They get NO grain and only get hay when it's either raining or if it's well over 100. I've always had just a few more bucks then does. I've never had more does. This last year I had a TON of boys. I had made up a thread about having some weak legged kids after giving bose. Jill (goat hiker) had said that the more selenium the more boys.....she was way more high tech in explaining that but that's basically what she said. That also the brush trees Ect were also a good source of selenium as well so with the Bose they really had some sel. Right now im more believing the sel. Plays a roll. 
Now since I have the set up to place what girls I want with what boys my plan is to rotate them out to be able to brows. I figure let one group out one day and the other the next so they will be a little more 'pampered' then normal. They will get better feed in the form of hay (still refuse to give grain) but they will also get less sel. So If I were to get more girls I don't know which would be playing the part....... But either way I'm interested to find out how it goes with you pointing this out


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## Ryann (May 29, 2013)

I know a woman who raises cows and says that the bull needs to be facing east when he breeds the cow for heifer calfs....

that being said...

The sex of the kids is determined by the buck and the number of kids is determined by the doe.... so I don't see how the diet of the doe has any affect on which of the bucks "little swimmers" makes it to the egg to fertilize it. I have read studies that the "boy sperm" are faster but die faster too and that the "girl sperm" are slower but live longer so that if you get the doe bred earlier in her heat cycle you are more likely to get does as the boy sperm die before making it to the egg that is farther up in early heat and that later breedings result in more boys... honestly I think it is luck some years you will have more boys other years more girls and there is not a lot we can do about it... I do however believe that having your does in good condition with proper nutrition does result in more kids as a healthier doe can produce more eggs and sustain a pregnancy with multiples.....


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I think that the buck/doe ratio depends on the buck himself and not necessarily his diet. My last buck produced 70% does the three years I used him. The buck I currently own gave me about 60% bucks last year. They both were fed the same diet, were the same age, bred some of the same does, and both were given ACV in their water. I'm hoping that this year maybe with age I'll get more does from him than I did last year.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Up till last year I only had the one buck and last year I had 3 different ones....the one only bred 4 does. Honestly I think it will drive you crazy trying to figure any of this out lol but I still find everything that's been said interesting and fun to keep track of. I don't kid myself though and know I will never find the magic answer to get all or very high % of boys or vise versa. Other then refusing to give Bose.....which seemed to not help with the few weak legged kids I get every year, I'm not really doing anything special to try and get one sex over the other. It's just working out that I'm changing the whole brows dry lot thing because of the multiple bucks that I now have


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I read it depends on the doe too. the girl determines which sex of sperm to favour due to the pH balance in her hoo-haa. one of TGS members said one of her does throws bucks no matter what - different diet, different bucks, etc. seems to be a lot of factors involving sex of offspring. you can try all the midwife tales and work, or try and don't work. good luck though!


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

Mine were bred when I got them and I got exactly 50/50 ratio


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

I am hearing that yAll give ACV in your goats water.....how much do you give? I bought some recently but have no idea how much to put in the water. 


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S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

nchen7 said:


> I read it depends on the doe too. the girl determines which sex of sperm to favour due to the pH balance in her hoo-haa. one of TGS members said one of her does throws bucks no matter what - different diet, different bucks, etc. seems to be a lot of factors involving sex of offspring. you can try all the midwife tales and work, or try and don't work. good luck though!


That is very true!!! I have a doe I want a doeling out of SOOOO badly and she has had nothing but boys for 4 years now. I have others that always have a boy and a girl and 1 that has always gave girls. My lamancha has had both singles and twins and if single it's always a girl and twins one of each. I just bought a doe that has had 2 sets of triplets and a set of quads and all boys....I'm hoping it changes for me lol

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## russellp (Apr 10, 2013)

scubacoz said:


> I am hearing that yAll give ACV in your goats water.....how much do you give? I bought some recently but have no idea how much to put in the water.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
> S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
> Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


Put a splash in 5 gallons, maybe 1/2 a cup


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

When I really want to try and tip the scale in favor of doe kids, I breed the doe once, as soon as she is in a standing heat, and then not again. 
When I do that, I get more doelings. Luck? Coincidence? IDK.

I did do some ratio figuring a few years ago and discovered that, while I did have buck years and doe years, it all averaged out to 51% bucks vs. 49% does over about 25 years, 
no matter what I did.

If I decide I want a lot of kids (which I don't any more) I would raise the protein % in their grain to 20% starting about 3 weeks before I wanted to breed. I ended up with triplets and quads. 
If I stayed with the 16%, I got twins.

The school of thought that says that adding vinegar to their diet will cause the ph balance to be acidic and favor doeliings was proven false. The vinegar had to be d0uched in order to raise the
acidity in the female reproductive tract. However, adding raw ACV to their diet does have healthful benefits which can make the doe release more eggs due to her being in better body condition.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have always been told that if you up a does protein intake before breeding she will produce multiples. However, the sex depends on the what the buck puts out and what is capable of surviving in the doe. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have one doe that is due in late October that if she throws me a doeling I will probably roll over and die I would be so happy


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

Is this kind of "flushing" to stimulate more eggs, hence more kids, developing?


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wow this is so interesting! I put ACV in my goats water for health. My does get grain year round. This is my first breeding season with one doeling on the ground. In a months time another 2 are due and then 2 months after that my last girl is due.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

My kidding season is finally over. I had 9 doelings to 7 bucklings over all......however, the Nubians were mostly bucks and the Lamanchas were mostly does.

All fed the same diet. The only difference was the breeding. The Manchas were bred 1 time when they were at the beginning of a standing heat and that was it. The Nubians were bred at the end of the standing heat. The X sperm as supposed to be slower but steadier swimmers while the Y are quicker to swim and quicker to die. Breeding at the beginning caused the X sperm to be ready when the eggs were ready, and the Y were mostly dead or weakened. Having the Y there at the end of the heat meant they were fresher and right there when the eggs were ready. 

Anyway, this is what seems to work for my herd.

Coincidence? IDK, but it seems when I breed once I get more does than bucks.

Rhino.....yes, that is the flushing to produce more eggs that will attach and develop.


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