# Beer vs. Probiotics for Rumen



## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

I've heard that you can give a goat dark beer to help with rumen function. Is this given in addition to regular probiotics, or is it meant to replace probiotics in case you don't have any on hand?

I have a young buckling who is definitely feeling "off" today. He is listless and doesn't have much of an appetite. His eyelid color is good. He seems to have lost some weight in the last couple of days. His temp is only 95.5.

We have given him a shot of B vitamins and a dose of probiotics, and offered some fresh greens, which he picked at, but didn't eat much of. I've heard a couple of good rumbles from his rumen, but not as often as I would expect.

I have a dark beer I can give him, if you think that will help. I'm open to suggestions.

Edited to add: Jazz is about 7 months old. It is not bitterly cold here today (around 50 degrees).


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

What's his temp?

Oops, scratch that, just saw. That's very, very low. I would try the beer. Hope someone else steps in with input.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

The beer is meant to rebuild the rumen, as it is fermented and contains a lot of yeast. At least, that's my understanding. Kinda helps them start rumination again.


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

This is a good question mainly because of this:

What is a dark beer to you?

is it a negra modelo @ 5.4% alcohol

or maybe

a hefeweizen @ 4.9% alcohol

or maybe a good stout or porter at 6% to 9%

May favorite dark beer is Dragons milk @ 10/11% alcohol

so what is needed for the rumen kickstart?

Not all beer is made from wheat????

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT DO WHAT I MENTION ABOVE AND BELOW BASED ON ME DISCUSSING IT

*if it is the fermintation process; wouldn't it be easier to grind up some hay/alpha pellets etc...into a paste and then using warm water and yeast, add it to the grass and let it sit in a warm spot for an hour, kind of like making bread??*

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT DO WHAT I MENTION ABOVE AND BELOW BASED ON ME DISCUSSING IT


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## Bansil (Jul 23, 2015)

http://www.bonappetit.com/drinks/beer/article/how-the-10-most-important-grains-in-beer-affect-flavor
more info

How the 10 Most Important Grains in Beer Affect Flavor photo
Credit: flickr user crabchick
SEPTEMBER 17, 2013 / WRITTEN BY JOSHUA M. BERNSTEIN 
Now that summer has faded into fall, students across the country are returning to school. But even if your high school, college, and grad-school days are in the rearview mirror, this season is a great time to up your beer IQ. In my new book, The Complete Beer Course, I take readers on a carbonated journey across the constellation of beer, breaking down the styles, grains, yeast, hops, and techniques that cause beer's flavor to spin into thousands of distinctively delicious directions. To prep you for your next pint, I've created a primer on brewing grains that make your beer taste great. Studying has never been so much fun.

[B]BARLEY: [/B]One of the foundation stones of beer is barley, which is transformed into brew-ready malt by taking a bath in hot water. This causes the grain to create the enzymes that transform proteins and starches into fermentable sugars, which yeast will later feast on to create alcohol. With brewing, top billing on the grain bill usually is reserved for barley malts. This is due mainly to an evolutionary advantage: barley contains husks, which keep the mash (the grains steeped in boiling water) loose and permit drainage of the wort-the broth that becomes beer. For flavor, brewers often blend the lead grain barley with a host of supporting fermentable grains (such as rye and wheat). There's no global system for classifying the hundreds of varieties of barley, but they can be condensed into several broad categories.

[B]BASE MALTS:[/B] These compose the bulk of the grain bill. Typically lighter-colored, these workhorse malts provide the majority of the proteins, fermentable sugars, and minerals required to create beer.
[B]
SPECIALTY MALTS:[/B] These auxiliary grains are great for increasing body, improving head retention, and adding color, aroma, and flavor, such as coffee, chocolate, biscuit, and caramel. Specialty grains are blended to achieve unique flavor profiles and characteristics. Popular varieties include the following: Crystal (or caramel) malts, specially stewed to create crystalline sugar structures within the grain's hull. They add sweetness to beer. Roasted malts, kilned or roasted at high temperatures to impart certain flavor characteristics. Coffee beans undergo a similar transformation. Dark malts, highly roasted to achieve the robust flavors associated with stouts, schwarzbiers, bocks, and black IPAs.

[B]UNMALTED BARLEY:[/B] This imparts a rich, grainy character to beer, a key characteristic of styles such as dry stout. Unmalted barley helps head retention, but it will make a beer hazier than Los Angeles smog.

[B]CORN[/B]: When used in beer, corn provides a smooth, somewhat neutral sweetness. It is utilized to lighten a beer's body, decrease haziness, and stabilize flavor.

[B]OATS:[/B] Used in conjunction with barley, oats create a creamy, full-bodied brew that's as smooth as satin. Stouts are a natural fit.

[B]RICE[/B]: As a beer ingredient, rice imparts little or no discernible taste. Instead, the grain helps create snappy flavors and a dry profile as well as lighten a beer's body.

[B]RYE:[/B] Working in conjunction with barley, rye can sharpen flavors and add complexity, crispness, and subtle spiciness as well as dry out a beer. The grain also can be kilned to create a chocolate or caramel flavor. Its shortcoming: since rye is hull-less, using large percentages of the grain during brewing can cause it to clump up and turn to concrete.

[B]WHEAT:[/B] Packed with proteins, this grain helps create a fuller body and mouthfeel and a foamy head as thick and lasting as Cool Whip. A large proportion of wheat can result in a smooth, hazy brew such as a hefeweizen or a witbier. Wheat can impart a slight tartness.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

The darker the beer, the better it is for jump starting rumens, alcohol content isn't what you're after. Darker beer has more microbes (again, I don't think this is the exact word I'm looking for) that are very similar to the ones that are already in a healthy rumen. You want to use the beer after it has gone flat. 
I would definitely try the beer, couple ounces. Put a jacket or something on him to try and get him warmed up. Offer a warm bucket of electrolytes as well.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Steal cud from a healthy goat if you can and give it to him. 

Low temp is a sign of shock or rumen shut down. 

If you cant steal cud, 4 ounces dark, room temp, flat beer every 4 hours until eating and drinking on his own. 

Need to act fast. Also needs b-vitamins in him as well. Will help his rumen and stimulate appetite.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

How much does he weigh?


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## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

He's about 35 pounds, best guess. I haven't weighed him recently. He had a shot of B vitamins this morning, and probiotics. 

I'll try to steal a cud now. Wish me luck.

I'm still not clear on whether the beer provides anything that the probiotics don't. With the alcohol in the beer, and the processing it goes through, are there still really any living microbes or yeast in it?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Beer is completely different than probiotics. Beer has a tremendous amount of yeast, the darker the better. Probiotics are living bacteria. Two different things.


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## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

Thank you, that helps.

Stealing a cud wasn't successful. I'll keep trying, and get him some beer in the meantime.

Should I give him a dose of CD antitoxin?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Exactly what deer bunny said. 

CD antitoxin won't hurt, may help. 

Give only about 2 ounces if beer every 4 hours instead of 4 ounces since he is smaller.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Stealing cud is much easier said than done. You usually have to sit with them a while once they are laying down. You can start giving beer and then if you happen to get the perfect opportunity to steal cud you can and still give it to him.


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## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

He's still weak. We've brought him inside where he's warmer and he's quieted down. We've given him the CD Antitox. Haven't been able to get him to take the beer or electrolytes. No luck on cud really, but just a small bit. We've heard some pretty big belly rumbles, but don't know if that's good or bad. 

Bill (for Kimberly)


He's wrapped in warm baby blankets in Kimberly's lap right now.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Can you tube him?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Try and rub some karo syrup on his gums to give him just enough boost to see if you can get fluids in him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

noisy rumen is good..means things are active..he maybe a bit sluggish...get his temp up is most important...you may need to drench the beer if he wont drink it himself..cd antitoxin is always a good call when rumen is off....b complex as a support and get him eating natural browse type foods...as well as hay...


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

The beer is a good idea, but I would give some milk of magnesia in case he's got some bad stuff stewing in his rumen.


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