# Boer people....



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Is 40 lbs for an 11-wk-old buckling a good weight? His parents are both nice and thick and he's 100%, so planning on going to check him out tomorrow. However, we bought another purebred boer buck this past summer that looked like he would be a good prospective herd sire for our herd and at 10 months old he looked like a mini-boer (stocky but extremely short). Disappointing to say the least and we traded him for another doeling while going with our 88% boer buck for breeding this year.
I don't want to end up with another dud for the next breeding season, so hoping to get some advice! I know to look for general conformation and a split scrotum, but any other good pointers? I want the pretty, stocky buck in all of the pictures everybody else has...the ones with the fat wrinkled necks and hog butts that look like mini bulls....like those gorgeous Toth Boer bucks! hlala:


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## Dodge 'Em (Jan 13, 2011)

I just sold a 12 week old buckling, he weighed about 65lbs.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

My Toth buck was 68lbs at 2.5 months
my usual bucks with old school genetics are 45ish pounds at 2.5 months

birth weight, weaning weight, deworming, general nutrition, and genetics all play into the growth of the kid.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Wow, Kathy! That was a big boy! Even if he was a single birth, that's one big boy. :shocked: 
Katrina, I saw that you got one of the Toth bucks and I'm so jealous! Simply gorgeous mass of muscle. I'll bet your babies by him are going to be very nice.
I'm going to take my scale out with me then and weigh him before I make a decision. Sounds like he should be a little heavier than 40 lbs, but he's got that piggy rump, wide body, and heavy in the neck. I was getting hopeful....


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

lol thanks! 
He's doing great, considered a yearling now! big guy is growing up *sniffles* LOL. 

got a pic of your guy?


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Here's the two pics I have of him. The buck is his father at 14 mos and 150 lbs. The top pic is his half sister that we will for sure be purchasing tomorrow morning.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

he looks like a good growthy buckling. 
how old is he in these pictures?


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

AlaskaBoers said:


> lol thanks!
> He's doing great, considered a yearling now! big guy is growing up *sniffles* LOL.
> 
> got a pic of your guy?


I :lovey: Rush! He's not just nice to look at...he's got a great disposition and he's a little flert!


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

oh... yeah totally. total character!


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

It is hard to tell from a picture, especially of an 11 week old buckling, what he will turn into when he fills out. I always rely on genetics. The sire and the dam, of course, but also other kids that the sire has thrown. Ask to see their records of birth weights, weaning weights, adg's, conception, the preformance specifics of this particular bucklings sire. A big buck is important but so is a Productive one. Not to say that it is a guarentee that good bucklings come from good stock, but at least they have the genotype....hopefully their phenotype will match....I like only 2 teats on my boers but that is up for debate and not so important if you are only looking for a commercial herd sire....I will say I like the head to neck to torso transition of this little guy, from what I can see. He may be a little tall and a little short but it is hard to tell....The sire and dam are the answer


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

I think the sire could have been wider, longer, and more level on the top. It looks like the little buckling is going to go in the same direction.

When I was raising the boers, I never bought a buckling to use as a breeding sire, because you never know what stress could do to them or how they will change over time. So I always went with grown, proven bucks.


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## Dodge 'Em (Jan 13, 2011)

On my Boers, I like a more level top line, heavier bone, a little longer and a little deeper girth. But I am getting more into showing them, and that is what the judges are looking for. He does look a lot like his sire.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you everyone! The pictures of the buckling are very recent. I agree the sire is not level at all on top, but know he's still growing. Does that influence it at all? I know horses come up in the rear first, but not sure about goats.
I can't afford to buy a nice, papered, grown boer buck for sure. The breeders around here all show so the bucks are in the thousands range. Those not bucks are show whethers, very few commercial boer bucks. I'm breeding commercial, 4h for my human kids and the boys will go into our freezer. We recently had a wether and it's good!
So I guess I'm mainly coming from a meaty perspective, fast growth with muscling, even to sacrifice some on conformation if necessary. We have no plans to register or show any of the offspring, and if we sell later it will just be for commercial breeding stock (or meat).
I could not get down there this morning so we will be going tomorrow morning. I will be able to see his dam then as well. She consistently produces twins and heavy, fast growing babies from what I was told. The does' mom produces trips, so that's why I want to get her. I will take that list of questions with me to ask about the parents, though it will be more about the dams. This was the sire's first breeding crop so not a lot of history, unfortunately. I do appreciate the guidance, though, so I know more what to ask! :grouphug:


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

I raise market meat goats, not show. What I look for in a buck is: How many kids he put on the ground vs how many does he was exposed to, how much those kids weighed at birth and weaning and what were they fed. I also want to know how frequently he was dewormed and why. Other medical treatments are also considered. Last, I look at conformation. 

If the buck is too young to have had kids, I ask the questions about his parents, how many kids and what did they weigh. 

In the meat market, pounds on the scale pays the bills. 

40 lbs at 11 weeks may or may not be good, it depends on what he is beign fed and how many were in the litter.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> like mini bulls....like those gorgeous Toth Boer bucks! hlala:


 Aww..thank you.... We do ship..LOL :laugh: :hug:



> My Toth buck was 68lbs at 2.5 months
> my usual bucks with old school genetics are 45ish pounds at 2.5 months
> 
> birth weight, weaning weight, deworming, general nutrition, and genetics all play into the growth of the kid.


 Rush was a twin.... :wink:

Yes ...Katrina is right.....all plays an excellent part... in kid growth.... :wink:



> Katrina, I saw that you got one of the Toth bucks and I'm so jealous! Simply gorgeous mass of muscle. I'll bet your babies by him are going to be very nice.
> I'm going to take my scale out with me then and weigh him before I make a decision. Sounds like he should be a little heavier than 40 lbs, but he's got that piggy rump, wide body, and heavy in the neck. I was getting hopeful....


Thanks Aimee...I appreciate... the compliments on Rush...it means alot to me as his 2nd mommy...LOL....I as well .....love to see his kids...they should be very nice .....Poor Katrina ....waited like 2 years... to get Rush...so... she has to be going nuts by now... :crazy:



> lol thanks!
> He's doing great, considered a yearling now! big guy is growing up *sniffles* LOL.


Aww...your baby is growing up... :hi5: :hug:



> I :lovey: Rush! He's not just nice to look at...he's got a great disposition and he's a little flert!


I agree bleatinghearts.....he was born with an excellent disposition.....very easy going and was always curious.. on what you where doing... :doh: HeHe..... He is a sweetheart... :laugh:



> .I like only 2 teats on my boers but that is up for debate and not so important if you are only looking for a commercial herd sire....


1x1 and 2x2's are good... with registered..and /or show animals....with a commercial herd....as long as... the teats are not an issue ...and the kids can suckle with no problems.....any teat structure is OK...... boers have twins... trips ....or? So sometimes... having those extra teats come in handy....



> I agree the sire is not level at all on top, but know he's still growing. Does that influence it at all? I know horses come up in the rear first, but not sure about goats.


 You know... I have to say... that...I have seen... the growing ups and downs....in the rear... knockin off the back line....his Sire.. in the picture....shows the dipped back line....boers do grow up to 4 years... that buck ...is just a little over a year ...and yes... he is still growing.... I have seen some do that in growth... then.... straighten right out ...while others don't....so you won't know...til he matures... But... before then ...you will be able to see his offspring and be able to tell.... if he is a keeper or not.... :wink: If you are only going for a commercial herd.... he should work out for you.... He isn't the worse buck out there....he is ...lacking some length..... but then in his 3 month old picture he has some...so I don't know what to say there...it may just be the picture.... It is best to see the Sire and Dam..in person....

as for the width... can't tell ....as you don't have a front or rear shot of him.... but... he has the muscle tone....going on...... Do you know his bloodlines?.......

even though... he may be a bit under weight schedule.... doesn't mean..... he doesn't have the fast growth genetics behind him.....I have seen 2 boer buckling siblings....one was gorgeous ....all the way around...show animal.... while the other was smaller....and not as good......believe it or not....when the babies where weaned.... I couldn't believe my eyes...the smaller buck.. which had the same genetic's...produced...very nice growth rates animals....over the big brother...so you never know....
Every time... any breeder... switch out bucks ...it is always a risk..... and it is like a box of chocolates " You never know ...what you are going to get" :doh:  
...with breeding any buck ...to your Does...sometimes...some Does.. don't click well with certain Bucks... and genetic flaws may appear.. or they may be perfect..... or you may get... a mixed package... :wink:



> I raise market meat goats, not show. What I look for in a buck is: How many kids he put on the ground vs how many does he was exposed to, how much those kids weighed at birth and weaning and what were they fed. I also want to know how frequently he was dewormed and why. Other medical treatments are also considered. Last, I look at conformation.
> 
> If the buck is too young to have had kids, I ask the questions about his parents, how many kids and what did they weigh.
> 
> ...


 I agree.... :hi5:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks guys!! The 14 month old buck is just for reference. He's the sire of the 3 month old we are considering (bottom two pics). I guess he's more powerfully built than his sire then, which is good! I also can't wait to see front and back to see the width. Hopefully the dam is more level.
I will ask how many does the sire bred this year and how many settled. I know the buckling and doeling are from seperate sets of twins. I'll also find out his birth weight and that of his sib. He's been munching grain since he was two weeks old she said, but also still on his dam right now.
The worming is a great question I didn't think of! We have a pretty hardy, resistant herd now (knocking on wood) and I don't want to loose that. Our inferior looking boer x something buck has never been wormed since we first brought him home and doesn't need it....so that is important for me to keep in mind. We worm as needed and not on schedule, why didn't I think of that?Thanks!
Pam, if I got one of your bucklings there's no way I could eat the pretty kids. They all belong in the ring, not the freezer....but maybe one day when I have enough experience at all of this to know I wont botch it all!
Is 150 pounds at 14 months good for the sire's weight? Thank you all SOOOO much for the pointers. We don't need a buck until the fall so I can take my time if he isn't what we need. He's in our budget right now....but even free isn't good if it isn't what you need.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your welcome... :thumb:

Yeah ...let us know how it goes... :hi5:



> Pam, if I got one of your bucklings there's no way I could eat the pretty kids. They all belong in the ring, not the freezer....but maybe one day when I have enough experience at all of this to know I wont botch it all!


 HeHe...they are all meat goats LOL..  ....but.... I see your point.... and.. thank you... :laugh: :hi5:



> Is 150 pounds at 14 months good for the sire's weight?


 It is under....I hate to say.... for what my boys weigh... they are.. well over that... by 1 year old...

Good luck in your search...definitely take your time... a buck is a big investment no matter how much you are paying for him.... :greengrin:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

We did purchase that buck, and thank you all so I knew what questions to ask. The breeder was guessing at his weight. He just turned 12 weeks and I weighed him at 56 lbs, which is much better.
He has 2:2 clean teats and I got to see grandma, mom, aunt, and sisters. All shared that very square, heavy boned solid look I want to breed into our herd. They all looked like stamped copies of each other, so I'm hopeful he'll bring that here. He also stands wide and straight in the back, which I'm hoping will correct the babies of a couple cow hocked girls I have.
He's pretty thick across the chest (at least to me) and heavy boned with big clydesdale looking feet. He could have a more level topline and more length. Not sure about his twist, since I only recently learned what a twist was, but here are a few pictures of him. Opinions welcome! Welcome home Solomon.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He is a nice looking boy...great job...I say..... :hi5: :thumb:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

good looking boy!


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks guys. :grouphug: He's no Toth, but he'll do good for a commercial herd I think. (One day I'm going to have a Toth buck even if it's the only goat we have. :greengrin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks guys. :grouphug: He's no Toth, but he'll do good for a commercial herd I think. (One day I'm going to have a Toth buck even if it's the only goat we have. :greengrin:


 Aww.....thank you so much... :hi5: :thumb: I will sale you one for sure...when it comes time..and you are ready... :wink: .LOL :laugh:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

I want an EGGS buck! holy goats! just went to their site ...drooling! RRD is awesome too. geesh.

Bear Creek Boers has also caught my eye recently.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Katrina, your guy will turn out to be better than all of those. I've looked at lots of sights and I haven't seen any that consistently look like Pam's. You can see different quality boers at the different breeder's sites, some excellent and some average, but hers all look like she's figured out the secret to consistent results. 
Everybody is goint to the new tubular look that is, imo, defeating the original intent for the breed. Where's the beef? :laugh: 
Eggs is big around this area and so is Ruger. They are nice for sure. I kind of like the CODI style myself, old school rugged and thick with wrinkles and rolls. It seems they are going from bulldogs to greyhounds around here lately. Since we are raising for meat it's not very helpful.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

CODI goats.. there are some good ones! some dont look "Boer" to me. It's mostly the faces (straight).


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

AlaskaBoers said:


> I want an EGGS buck! holy goats! just went to their site ...drooling! RRD is awesome too. geesh.
> 
> Bear Creek Boers has also caught my eye recently.


I know two people with EGGS bucks. They both have problems with bad teat structure. Fish teats, nub teats and cluster teats. From what I have read the EGGS bucks have some bad teat genetics.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

These pictures do not make him look too tall or short. He looks to be the perfect size for that age buckling. He also looks like he is solidly comformed. His "twist" is the area between his anus and where his legs split. You goat doesn't look bad from the back, his twist, but he is really hairy so you can't get the real picture. Sometimes you will hear a judge say, about a goat," he/she lack depth", when looking at their rearend, meaning their twist isn't big and long. I would say you have done well picking out a commercial buckling. 
@Jo...Ivan is an "Eggs" buck. Eggsfile is his Gsire's sire. His dam line was CODI/PCI and Powell Holman. 2 Teated and threw almost all 2 teated kids. But he is gone to a new owner now. Could have been you.
Old Eggsfile himself is rumored to have had a poor teat structure, supposedly why the USBGA began to include buck teat comformation in the standard...And now the ABGA is following suit. There are going to be ALOT of unhappy people very soon.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you, relics.  He's already a big upgrade from the buck we used last year (but that didn't take much to beat). :laugh:


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

()relics said:


> @Jo...Ivan is an "Eggs" buck. Eggsfile is his Gsire's sire. His dam line was CODI/PCI and Powell Holman. 2 Teated and threw almost all 2 teated kids. But he is gone to a new owner now. Could have been you.


You changed your mind remember? I almost had myself talked into him and you decided to keep him for awhile...



()relics said:


> Old Eggsfile himself is rumored to have had a poor teat structure, supposedly why the USBGA began to include buck teat conformation in the standard...And now the ABGA is following suit. There are going to be ALOT of unhappy people very soon.


Proof that a good, comprehensive breeding program approached with care can make a big difference. You took genetics with some great traits (weight gain) and some flaws (teat structure) and managed to breed out the flaws while keeping the positive traits. I am impressed. That is not as easy as some people think it is.

Perfect7-Congratulations on the new buck. I think he looks just dandy! A very good start to a commercial herd.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Katrina, your guy will turn out to be better than all of those. I've looked at lots of sights and I haven't seen any that consistently look like Pam's. You can see different quality boers at the different breeder's sites, some excellent and some average, but hers all look like she's figured out the secret to consistent results.
> Everybody is goint to the new tubular look that is, imo, defeating the original intent for the breed. Where's the beef? :laugh:
> Eggs is big around this area and so is Ruger. They are nice for sure. I kind of like the CODI style myself, old school rugged and thick with wrinkles and rolls. It seems they are going from bulldogs to greyhounds around here lately. Since we are raising for meat it's not very helpful.


 HeHe...thank you....again... :thumb: :laugh:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

Hm I hadnt heard that about EGGSfile. I'm sure that was common to overlook teat structure in bucks 'back then'


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