# Not much milk out of fancy doe..should I sell?



## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

We bought a FF last year that wasn't producing much but I didn't make a big deal about it because she was a FF. However a week ago she gave birth to triplets (Second freshening) and is still only producing 3-4 cups a day. I get about 8-10 cups out of her dam and another experimental doe I have every day. This doe is really nice too. She has exceptional genetics (Easy Stream) Her udder is really nice and big and I love how it is attached so well. As a matter of fact, she has the best udder in my herd. She has great body capacity and length..but she wont put out the milk! I've tried everything I know, I've increased her grain and given her fresh alfalfa, which helped some, but not the difference I was hoping for. She's a show goat, does that have anything to do with it? We haven't started showing yet, and are breeding for goats that produce and that you can show. Am I missing something? :shrug: It does seem like her udder is very meaty, while my other does have soft udders and milk out well.

I'm considering selling her cause we really need milk. She's so big, eats a lot and is very non compliant on the stand making her almost too much for me to handle. I was so excited about her being the best doe we had, but where's the milk? Is this typical with show goats? I don't want to NOT have her good genetics in my herd..know what I mean? In so many ways she's so much of an improvement to our herd besides the low milk... :scratch:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

If she is a brat on the stand it could simply be that she is not letting down for you as much as she has to give. Training her to be better on the stand will help, along with massaging the udder and warm compresses.


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

firelight27 said:


> If she is a brat on the stand it could simply be that she is not letting down for you as much as she has to give. Training her to be better on the stand will help, along with massaging the udder and warm compresses.


Thanks! I'll try that!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I agree that she may just not be letting down for you. Are her triplets on her also? 

Doesn't matter how good the genetics are if she herself is a poor producer or has issues then you don't want her genetics in your herd. Some crosses just don't work out well. Her mom may be great and her dad may have produced productive goats but together the offspring may be subpar. Not saying she is but don't rely on her good genetics to tell you that she is good. :wink:


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

I was wondering too if her kids are on her or did you pull them?

Could her udder be congested/have endema? Had this problem with one of my mom's mini Alpines....

Her udder seemed very beefy, not much milk & shabby production, uncooperative on the stand... 

We ended up doing warm compresses......Used a mini cooler & microwaved several damp hand towels until very hot. Toted out to barn, applied one compress (it cools some, so while very warm, it's not hot enough to burn) & massaged until cool, then replaced with fresh warm towel from cooler.

Took about 4 days of compresses (& mom gave vit c & raspberry leaf) to clear the congestion and about another 2 weeks for her to start fully letting down, but she has the 
nicest, most soft udder now & is milking 6lbs per day (shes a 3rd generation, FF mini alpine) 
So if she were my doe, I'd wait it out a bit....

But if this doesn't resolve and she does indeed have a meaty udder & poor production, I'd sell her no matter how pretty.

Good luck


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

Oh wow I'll try the warm compresses tonight. I thought it was a bit odd how hard and beefy her udder was. It just doesn't make sense! I'll do that and let ya'll know if she's producing better after a while. It would be a shame if she turns out to be a poor producer, she is so very nice and we were planning on keeping one of her bucks as a herd sire this year. Other than the milk production, her buck is an improvement of most of what we have. Thanks ya'll!


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

LoneStarChic said:


> I was wondering too if her kids are on her or did you pull them?


We pulled two of them and left one on her...we are on the CAE prevention program and she was just so sad when we took her babies...I didn't have the heart to take all of them :doh:



LoneStarChic said:


> Could her udder be congested/have endema?


Oooohhh what's this? that's not the same as mastitis is it? :?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Edema/congestion is not the same as mastitis and I've been milking my 2 week fresh doe once a day for about a week now and her kids are with her 24/7, when my does first freshen, their udders are always full with engorged mammary glands due to the "over productive" mode that a constantly nursing kid puts them in, once I start separating at night to milk in the mornings, the glandular tissue decreases as the capacity increases...this could possibly be whats going on with your doe/ and the fact that she made an udder large enough to feed triplets at birth and IMO, unless you are willing to milk a doe every hour of the day, you'll never be able to take from her the way a kid will so her udder that was made to feed triplets has been told that she's feeding one kid and you're taking whatevers left. I milked my doe who had a stillborn 3-4 times a day for 2 weeks just to keep her production up and going to where I was able to get her on a 2x a day schedule and still get a substantial amount.


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## goatfarmergirl (Jul 3, 2011)

my goats can't give me more than their utters can carry. maybe her utters don't have much room for milk.


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

No, congested udder/edema is not the same as mastitis.

I used to have edema a LOT until one of my mentors pointed me in a different direction in my management (I changed my feeding). Some does stayed congested for a while, taking up to 3-4 weeks to soften completely. 

Vitamin C tablets (I use the 500mg chewables, my girls love 'em) & raspberry leaf capsules from the health food store. 2-3 times a day with those, the compresses & milking out fully at least twice a day helped quite a bit. Oddly, I got the vit C/raspberry leaf tip from a friend of my mom's who is a lactation specialist & deals with this same issue in breast feeding women....

To tell the truth, I dunno if the vit C/raspberry make a difference or if just the hot compresses do the trick, because I do all of it together. In stubborn cases, I've put a few drops of peppermint or tea tree oil in a few tablespoons of coconut oil & massage well, then hold the hot compress on top of it.

Since I changed my management, I rarely see congested udders that last more than a couple days, and that is only in my girls who milk over 1 1/2 gallons the day they kid..... Those girls come into so much milk so fast, I expect it... I milk at least twice a day from day 1... Some I milk more often so they don't become so engorged they leak on me...

I used to feed sweet feed, protein 16%-18%, alfalfa pellets (17%+ protein) & grass hay. Now I ditched the sweet feeds, feed lower protein grain (12%) & the base of the diet is their alfalfa pellets (cant get good alfalfa hay here)...... 

Not saying you need to change your feed or anything like that, but for my herd, having the bulk of the diet as alfalfa, with minimal, lower protein grain (mix my own) has made a huge difference & now only the heavier milkers get congested udders, and only for a few days max.... No more weeks & weeks of congestion to fuss with...


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I would keep massaging the udder and keep milking her out, I would also take the other kid away so you know exactly how much she is giving with no kids.

I had a doe who was all Easy-Stream breeding, actually closely related to your doe's sire (half-sister). She never milked well. Her udder was well attached, excellent conformation, but only gave about 4-6 lbs as a 3rd freshener. I cut my loss and sold her to some people who just wanted a family milker. So, it could be genetics just aren't in her favor.


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

ptgoats45 said:


> I would keep massaging the udder and keep milking her out, I would also take the other kid away so you know exactly how much she is giving with no kids.
> 
> I had a doe who was all Easy-Stream breeding, actually closely related to your doe's sire (half-sister). She never milked well. Her udder was well attached, excellent conformation, but only gave about 4-6 lbs as a 3rd freshener. I cut my loss and sold her to some people who just wanted a family milker. So, it could be genetics just aren't in her favor.


Oh wow that would explain it then. I'll keep doing the warm compresses and see if that helps. If not, we may be finding her a new home..that would stink and her buckling this year is so nice...


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Maybe off topic a little, but Liz mentioned that kids being constantly on the dam puts them in "over-productive mode". 

Does that mean it is better production/capacity-wise to leave the kids on the dam 24/7 and milk out any extra once a day...rather than keep the kids on all day, separate all night, and milk the doe in the morning before returning the kids? This is, of course, to get a really nice looking udder come show time...not to get the most milk possible for yourself. 

I generally start separating mom/kids at night at two weeks, milk once in the morning and put them back on until that evening...then repeat. I've always wondered if there was a better way to promote a nice looking udder on a show day.


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

I dunno.... I always milk twice a day from day #1.

Doe bonds to me, lets down well & gets emptied twice a day so there is nothing left over & she continues to produce more.... I've never had one that I milked extra to bump production, so far if I milk extra it's because shes producing too much.

Last year when I pulled kids, but let one of my Alpines raise one doeling, I left the baby 24/7 but still milked twice a day & never got less than 3/4 of a gallon for the house (& that was when the doeling was eating a lot at 3 months+)..... My mentor taught me to milk twice a day from the start to get the best production, so thats what I've always done...

To the OP...... I'll cross my fingers that your doe is just congested.... I'd hate for her to be a poor producer and you have to send her off..... Do you know anything about her dams miking history? Was she a good producer? Did she have a beefy udder? What about the sires dam?


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

LoneStarChic said:


> To the OP...... I'll cross my fingers that your doe is just congested.... I'd hate for her to be a poor producer and you have to send her off..... Do you know anything about her dams miking history? Was she a good producer? Did she have a beefy udder? What about the sires dam?


Yes I have her dam who is an excellent producer. She has a nice large udder with AWESOME teats. Her attachment isn't the best, but the doe in question has great attachment, great capacity, and great teats..

I wanted to post an update on her progress too...Since we've been massaging and doing the hot compresses, her milk supply has TRIPLED!! I'm so glad I learned about the congested udder thing. Thanks so much you guys!! :grouphug:


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

Yay!! I'm so happy for you! That congestion can really throw things off a bit.

Usually compresses do the trick, as well as vit C chewables (natural anti-inflamatory).

In more difficult cases, you can give 3cc of dexamethasone IM too. Reduces swelling & brings on a feeling of well being (according to my vet) & it can speed up the process.

Anywho, I'm so happy this cleared up & you can keep her


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

LoneStarChic said:


> Yay!! I'm so happy for you! That congestion can really throw things off a bit.
> 
> Usually compresses do the trick, as well as vit C chewables (natural anti-inflamatory).
> 
> ...


Thanks, meee tooo!!! :stars:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats great news!! Good to hear that she IS a producer and it was a simple fix to get her going :leap:


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