# Kid born butt first



## Bassfarm (Dec 10, 2017)

I am new to raising goats and we had our first birth, we have pygmy/ Nigerian mixed does, the kid was born dead but it was butt first with its back legs tucked under its body, I've researched and this is called a impossible birth, 2 questions is this common ( got another doe due anytime), and the doe that had the dead kid has stringy mucus coming out of her a day later, Will she pass it or not, thank you


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well it’s not uncommon. I had 2 that had them this way this year and there was not stopping it to get kids back legs. I also had a third that had a upside down but first but I had to get the back legs to get him out. It just depends on how big the does hips are and how small the kid is. But I usually kid out between 50-70 does a year and I think I’ve had 6, let’s say 10 breech Incase there’s some I’m not thinking of. Not all were able to push the kid out like that though, most I did need to fish the back legs out


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## Niginewbie (Oct 28, 2013)

I’ve only had about 15 kids born here and 2 were born butt first. Luckily, they were both 1 of triplets and not huge kids. Both does were able to deliver them. 

I’m very sorry for your loss. When you say stringy mucus....did the doe pass the placenta already? Does usually have a discharge after giving birth (up to two weeks I believe). It may be normal but it shouldn't be smelly or accompanied by a fever.


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## jaycee (Aug 3, 2011)

Thats a full breech when the butt is first and its the worst position. I've had one in a cow and the statistics say it happens 2% of the time so its very uncommon. I couldn't find the stats for goats but its quite uncommon. The reason they call it impossible is because usually they wont push if its like this and the baby suffocates in the birth canal. If it happens you have to get those back feet out from under it and stretched out first. You have to be gentle about it because its easy to tear the uterus and if you do the mama will most likely die of peritonitis when infection gets down in its abdomen. You need to cover the hooves when you are moving them around in there, easier said than done. 

The string coming from her is probably the placenta don't pull on it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It can happen, I had it happen before.
Push the kid in and try to located the legs and re position.

If it takes too long to get the kid out, the kid does parish.
I am so sorry.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so very sorry for your loss  Unfortunately if you don't get those breech kids out, once they get into that birth canal it can be fatal. This happened to some friends of ours this year.

We've had more than a handful of breech kids. Years ago we had a Nubian/Boer doe have one upside down and backwards - no assistance needed as he was small. I want to say she had another one from that set of triplets who was also backwards, I know she did have another breech kid at some point though.
Had a kiko/cross doe have a breech triplet once. Again, no assistance needed.

Last year we had 1 breech kid from a doe that I had to induce a week early (toxemia), went in and kid wasn't even in the birth canal. I went under him, found legs and pulled him out. 

This year we have had 2 breech kids. Smallest of 2 sets of triplets from experienced does, but first time with triplets for both of them.
I went in and sure enough, I felt a butt! Went under kid, found a leg, and pulled her out.
2nd one same thing, I went in, found a leg and pulled her out. Neither were in the birth canal. I think had they been the does could have gotten them out as they were really small babies. 
Those kind of breech births don't scare me so bad anymore, but I absolutely do not like having to assist.... Yet I am not scared to go in.

If your gut tells you something isn't right, and taking too long, listen to it, go in and see what's going on. We've been lucky, as there have been times I questioned that little voice in my head telling me it's time to check things out. I don't question myself anymore, I just wash up and go in.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

How are things?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Certainly not a good presentation. I disagree it is the worst though as I've both pulled them / and watched mothers push them out with nothing but the butt showing. If you can get both back feet you can pull them easier. Whether it's possible or not depends on how big the kid is and what the size of the cervical opening is. I agree this presentation can shut down a doe's contractions and is one of the reasons why you should go in and check things out if a doe that goes into labor is not progressing. Front feet coming out with the head back by it's butt is worse, IMO.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree 100% with Tenacross. Especially on the front feet/head back. We've had 3 of those over the years and they are awful! Only full term kids I've ever lost is from twins - head back on the first one and absolutely could not find the head in time. The babies were a tangled mess. 

We had one last month, last of 3 kids, and thankfully big doe. I had to go in with BOTH hands after trying hard with only 1 hand to get him out. I couldn't get him with a rope. Doe usually has big kids, so I decided to try and sure enough I was able to get both hands in, clamp them around his head, pull it out, and go in for a foot.

Those are the scariest births IMO. I'm on stand by for a very good friend who has a doe carrying triplets that was induced. I was just thinking a little while ago I hope and pray if I am needed that it's not a head back situation.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice and I know the devastation with heads back.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> Good advice and I know the devastation with heads back.


You had that quite a bit last year didn't you? did you ever figure out what was causing it?

My very good friends had one today with the head back, and called me to see if I could help. Thankfully they got the kids out right before I got there, but sounded tough.

We have one more doe left to kid, and I just hold my breath praying it goes smoothly. Seems like this kidding season has been very crazy and wild for so many people I know, or are friends with on the groups/FB.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, I did and had a devastating one happen a week ago again. 

I never did figure it out, heads back just seems to happen, even my vet doesn't know.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, I did and had a devastating one happen a week ago again.
> 
> I never did figure it out, heads back just seems to happen, even my vet doesn't know.


I am so sorry again for the loss, that is just so heartbreaking  How is her kid doing? I'm so thankful he survived. 
It's definitely strange how they get their heads back like that, you'd think it would be uncomfortable, even in those last days/weeks of growing for a fetus. 
We've had 1 devastating kidding of fullblood kids from having the head back. My first time with it, and I just could not find the head, for a while they really felt tangled up, and the cords snapped


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All loss is so devastating. 

It is so sad, I wish I knew why the heads go back like that. It has been the last two years I have had the issue.
Last year was more loss that way, this year was 1 so that isn't bad but, the torn uterus was devastating. 

The buck kid is doing great. I gave him to someone who cares for animals and takes great care of them. I seen them raise up 2 orphans I gave them a while back, who turned out to be beautiful goats, which they still have and adore them.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Aww I am glad the baby has a great home, that is wonderful. I agree, all loss is devastating. I am sorry about the head back issues, I know that is very upsetting. We had 1 this year and a very good friend had 1, they called me over to help because I have smaller hands and have been able to get the kids out, but thankfully they were able to get the kid out and all was fine. I believe they said baby was trying to come with all 4 feet originally.  

We're waiting on our doe and our friends doe to kid then I can breath with some relief. I worry about a single with our last doe, she's not real big. Big singles = trouble, especially for first timers. Hopefully she'll prove me wrong and have a couple of little babies instead.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent, hoping all goes well for you.
No more bad, we have had enough.


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