# Poor Ella :/



## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Sooo, I've been having trouble with anemia on and off for a long time now.
I got results back on a fecal like a week ago-no worms at all, very low cocci. count, not enough to treat.
Goathiker (Jill) is helping me figure out what minerals my goats/area may be deficient in, and right now I think the biggest concern right now is iodine? And maybe cobalt and a couple others.
Anyway, I'm waiting on my kelp to arrive in the mail (hopefully today), Which I'm really hoping will help with the iodine.
But in the meantime, my ND doe, Cinderella (Ella) has super white white lids, even though I've given lots of red cell and iron injectable three times. 
I finally stopped that stuff, because her eyes would pink up a little, only to be pale again in a few days, so it wasn't solving the problem. 

Also she is around 3 months bred, due Jan. 6 at the earliest.

Anyway, she acts totally normal other than the pale lids, so I wasn't too concerned for her at the moment. She has a very healthy appetite, isn't skinny, fairly active, etc. etc...
But today she's panting a lot even though it's not very warm. And she keeps making tiny little bleats, which is as much noise as she ever makes. She almost never makes a sound. So that's being "really noisy" for her.

She almost acts like she's in labor, but she's nowhere near due, and hasn't dropped, no udder or anything, no other signs.

I'm worried she's just been anemic for too long and can't cope anymore. 
I gave her 12 ccs of my molasses, cinnamon, salt, baking soda and honey mix, and 12 ccs of kefir to see if that would boost her.

I have a good bit of other stuff on hand, but on needles right now, though I can get some if need be.
Is there anything else I can do for her?
Thank you in advance.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What is her temp?

I'll tell ya, I have become a big fan of Replamin Plus. My older girl always had paler eyelids. Fecals were clean and she had a nice coat. But now I give my girls Replamin Plus every other week and she now has nice dark pink eyelids. They already got kelp and a good mineral. So this just seemed to round out what they were lacking.

I would do Replamin Plus once a week. Give 5cc.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

what about B12 injections?

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html

I stumbled upon this when the only B vitamins injectable are B12 here (strange....I know)


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

also, try these guys. there's a list of high iron foods (I was asking about it from them a few months ago...but can't find on my phone) on their fb page. I can get that to you later (no access at work except phone....)

http://www.landofhavilahfarm.com/goat-minerals.htm


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Are you giving BoSS? I like it as a "boosting" treat... Keep us posted on what you use and how they work? Hope they perk up soon for you!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> what about B12 injections?
> 
> http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/anemiaingoats.html
> 
> I stumbled upon this when the only B vitamins injectable are B12 here (strange....I know)


I wanted to give that, but I don't have any, I would have to special order it, or take her to the vet. They won't sell B12 unless they see the animal first. :/


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

SO weird. they sell B12 here no problem, but can't find B complex to save your life......


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

milk and honey said:


> Are you giving BoSS? I like it as a "boosting" treat... Keep us posted on what you use and how they work? Hope they perk up soon for you!


I haven't been giving it to her lately, no. I just ran out actually, and I was going to use peanut oil, grapseed , or something like on their feed that as a substitute. Goathiker said you can do that, and it's cheaper than BOSS, I just can't remember how much you give at a time right now. d:
I'll look that up and maybe start giving her some.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Karen, I haven't taken her temp, I guess I should. Do you know where can I get Replamin?

I'm out of B complex as well, but I could probably get that at the vet, or TSC, do y'all know if they have it?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Can you get "human" B12 pills and just give those to her? I don't know if that would work but I have to take B12 because of gastric bypass surgery and the pills are cheap at the pharmacy....


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

good thinking Carmen! that could work!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> also, try these guys. there's a list of high iron foods (I was asking about it from them a few months ago...but can't find on my phone) on their fb page. I can get that to you later (no access at work except phone....)
> 
> http://www.landofhavilahfarm.com/goat-minerals.htm


She is getting free choice alfalfa pellets right now, IDK if I can get any of those other things. I'm really hoping the kelp will come today, I know she needs that badly.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

kccjer said:


> Can you get "human" B12 pills and just give those to her? I don't know if that would work but I have to take B12 because of gastric bypass surgery and the pills are cheap at the pharmacy....


I'm pretty sure we have some.... lemme go look. Do you know how much I should give? And how?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

when my doe was sick, goathiker told me to crush up 12 B100 tablets and mix a little honey. I just drenched her with that and other stuff she hated..... mind you, that's for thiamine (wasn't sure if she was starting polio....). maybe goathiker will be able to help?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

check horseprerace for B 12...not sure if they carry it...thay have B1 ??

also Mix 50/50 ACV and water and drench her daily with about 20 cc ...see if it helps..I know you must hate giving her a bunch of junk...but until her eye remain pink on their own..she needs help...the B 12 will help as well as the ACV but I would do daily Iron injecable for a week then once a week until she can hold her own..Or the red cell..You can also research the herbal world and see if there is something there to help....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> http://www.landofhavilahfarm.com/goat-minerals.htm


This gal is awesome in answering questions..she is quick too ...been visiting back and forth with her...


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## 7blessings (Jun 30, 2013)

Can Replamin Plus be given to pregnant does?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's the Replimin Plus http://www.probioticsmart.com/farm/replamin-plus-gel.html I think that's a good idea to support them. Keep you worst ones pinking up even if just a bit until we can work it all out.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks everybody. Sorry I was gone, there's always stuff to do around here. 



> I know you must hate giving her a bunch of junk...but until her eye remain pink on their own..she needs help...


You got that right! I kind of knew I shouldn't have stopped giving her stuff, but it just didn't seem to be helping, so I kind of gave up, hopin git would eventually get better on it's own, but it didn't. :hair: But I agree she needs help. 
I do get overwhelmed with all the info. I start to read up on one thing, then another, then there's five other things I see that I need to read up on, and it's just too much! 

So right now I guess I'll go check her temp, give her the human b12 and vinegar. (We have b complex for humans too, should I give that as well?)
And we have to go to the feed store anyways so I can pick up some needles. I do have thiamine on hand, though it is pretty old...?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Thiamin is fine even past it's date as long as it has never frozen. If the last time they were copper bolused was June, it's also time for that and their Bo.Se.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

TSC does have a high level vit B complex which is the same, it has thiamine ect.

Another thing comes to mind, lice, have you checked for that?

When you check the gums are you giving the gums enough time to get blood to the gums and not pushing down on them?
Also check the lower eye membrane color in each eye.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I usually just look at the lower eyelid for paleness.
Aren't some lice almost impossible to see? What's the best way to check for them?

So today she's had:
12ccs kefir
12ccs molasses mixture
20 ccs of ACV/water mixture with crushed vitamin C, magnesium and b complex (for humans) mixed in.
I thought It would be good to add the magnesium since the Replamin has a lot of that in it. :shrug:
Oh, I also found that we had one last b12 shot in the frig that the vet gave us a while back, so I went ahead and gave her that.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I got her temp finally. It's official, she hates me.  She's shy normally, and when I do stuff like that she won't come near me for a day or two. 
Anyway, it was exactly 103.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lice can be seen..just rub her hair against the flow, slowly...look close at the skin and base of hair shaft...lice are small..long oval -ish shape, grey to brown in color...there are a few kinds..biting and sucking...here is a link to show you the different kinds..Sucking lice has a long head while the biting lice has a rounder head...
http://www.goatbiology.com/articles.html
here is a link that shows an actual lice bug on a goat...
http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/...ming-and-lice?commentId=4125126:Comment:64930


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Well said Cathy


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Sarah, I sent you a PM.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks all. Hey, is it just my imagination, or is it possible her eyelid was already a tad pinker tonight? I sure thought it was.
It's too dark now to check for lice, (I could use a flashlight, but I think I'd be able to see a LOT better in the day  )but I just remembered that I did notice that she was scratching on stuff a lot today! :shock: I kind of wondered why she was doing that, but then I didn't remember to investigate further until you said it could be lice. :think:
Maybe I will go out with a flashlight; this would explain so much!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This is where I get the Replamin Plus: http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Replamin-Gel-and-Replamin-Gel-Plus/498-200.html

I get it in a day but PBS Animal Health is in Ohio.

Get the gun too. It has a little thing so you can give it in the 5cc increments. Well worth the money and can be used with most other tubes.

My goats love it and fight over who gets some next.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Scratching can indicate lice. You may see scuffed up hair spots too, if they have been scratching a lot.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Mange is the one that's very hard to see - but I don't believe it will cause anemia.


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## klburt73 (Nov 1, 2013)

Most feed stores like Tractor Supply carry Agrilabs' "Fortified Vitamin B Complex injection."

Each mL has 100 mg thiamine (B1), 5 mg riboflavin (B2), and 100 mcg B12, along with a fee others (niacin, B6, etc).

And my goats are like Karen's: they LOVE Replamin Plus gel. It now rivals animal crackers and Tostitos for their favorite snacks, haha.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Last night I did I out with a flashlight and checked her for lice. I couldn't see anything bug-like at all. I checked near her tail, underside of her neck, and her armpits, there was nothing. So I guess that's good. 
Her lid definitely has a little pink to it today, yesterday it was totally white, so that's good too. 
I'll try to get needles and syringes today, (to give the iron injectable and thiamine?) and hopefully the kelp will come today as well. (Didn't yesterday :/)
Y'all think I should continue to give the same stuff I gave yesterday daily until she's doing better?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If she is pinking up, yes keep it up.  good news on no lice!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I checked a few more times for lice, since she was kind of itchy seeming, but, nothing.  No sores or anything either, her skin looks really good, actually.
I'm thinking maybe she's just hot, as she's got a really thick winter coat, and it's not very cold here yet.
Oh, and scratch that about it not being all that warm the other day, it really heated up that day later on. That day and the last few days it's been 75-80's. :sun: Pretty hot for Dec.!  So maybe she's itchy 'cause she's hot? That's my theory...

Today I gave her copper, BoSe, iron injectable, and yogurt. I'm going to give her the vinegar/water drench with the vitamins in it pretty soon. I gave that yesterday as well.
I also had just a little B12 left in the syringe, so I gave her that today, but I'm out now. 
No kelp yet, maybe tomorrow. :/

I also gave copper and BoSe to all the others that weren't UTD.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Oh shut up. It's 25 right now and dropping fast!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Zebra..our storm is coming lol..we had 82 degrees today..will be int he 20's by Friday...crazy weather!!

Sarah...keep watch on your goaties..this wicked changing weather can cause stress and illness : )


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

zebradreams07 said:


> Oh shut up. It's 25 right now and dropping fast!


:lol:
Hey, I'm not bragging, I hate it when it's this warm in December!! We've had quite enough hot weather this summer to last several years, thank you! 
And yeah, like Cathy said, it's about to drop fast! We've been spending much of this week weather proofing, winterizing (made that word up d and stocking up for this cold snap coming.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I gave her the ACV, vitamins(C, B complex, magnesium) an iron injectable every day for a week, maybe a little more, I lost track, then we were super busy and I have her everything but the iron injectable the last 4 days....
She's a tiny bit pinker, but still really pale. :/


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Today she's acting a little funny. :? I was walking her around to give her a little exercise, and she gets tired really quickly... she starts huffing and puffing almost as soon as she starts walking.. she seems really low energy and like maybe she's not feeling great. Which is understandable, since she's so huge. 
She was laying around a lot today, and being more vocal than usual- sometimes it almost seemed like she was having contractions, but she hasn't dropped yet, and barely has any udder to speak of at all... And I'm certain she's not due before Jan 6th, (according to my gestation calendar- 150 days calculator, I think?) since she was definitely in heat the day I wrote it down back n august.
She's usually so quiet, I don't know what to think...

I have Maxi-B 1000 now, and I still have thiamine and iron injectable
Should I give her all of these? I was about to go give her the vitamins and ACV again.
Anything else I should be doing??


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

So you have any cob to give her? She may need some more energy.
I'd give her a B shot as well.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I have barley and oats... but I was afraid to give her too much protein. :shrug:
I usually give her a small or large handful of it a day, but I really didn't want to over grain her- she's not skinny.
A B shot as well as what? sorry, not sure which thing to give now. d:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

What does the mega B 1000 contain? Have you found them a Cobalt source yet? 
The high arsenic in your area is playing havoc on their vitamin B 12 production and they need the Cobalt and Iodine to counter it.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

http://www.durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=129:maxi-b-1000

No cobalt yet; they are getting kelp every day, a few large handfuls each. Didn't want to overdo it, but they would eats tons if I let them.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, I think that would be good for her. I would follow the sheep dosage to start with.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Just got back from dosing her. I gave her a little over 2 ccs.. think I should do it daily for a while, or weekly?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, daily for a week and then twice a week for a while. Watch to see if it pinks her up a bit. If it does, you'll know for sure that it's the Cobalt that's lacking.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Will do.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Hello Sarah, I'm sorry Ella isn't doing well. I like that little goat! If what you're doing solves the problem, fantastic! But I'm wondering if her issue goes beyond common nutritional deficiency. Stubbornly pale eyelids, now tiredness...I hope there isn't internal bleeding or a heart issue, which would not respond to iron supplementation. There's no chance someone could have butted her, is there? Can you hear her kids' heartbeats? I'm not trying to worry you, but if it is something more serious than a dose of Replamin will fix, time is of the essence.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thank you, I appreciate your interest. 
This _has_ been going on for quite some time, but I think it very likely could be due to severe mineral deficiency(s), as I am still learning and didn't always have or give the right things for the right issues...

There is a chance she could've been butted-she wasn't separated form the one or 2 goats that tend to pick on her the whole time throughout this pregnancy, but she is very good at evading them, and when they were together, it was in a fairly large, split pen, with two separate barns, and lots of space for her to keep away from them. So I am optimistic that she hopefully didn't ever get hurt that way, though I am not sure by any means..

I can't ever hear heartbeats, but I only recently started trying, so I'm no good at it yet. 
I also stink at feeling kids- I fancy that I can usually, but that's on our full size Alpines... With her I can't feel anything, not yet anyway.

How can you usually tell if there is a heart issue going on?


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

As far as determining if there's something up with her heart, that's something I'd have a vet determine, as I simply don't have the knowledge to diagnose it, myself. But such things do happen, unfortunately...critters can have some of the same troubles as humans. But I've got my fingers crossed for the Replamin fix!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks! I'll see if I can order it tonight or tomorrow. I've been a little leery of asking for stuff, and since I was giving her all that other stuff, including the kelp, I didn't think it was too urgent, but I really want to get it asap.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Guys, I'm getting worried.  Last night I gave Ella:

A chewable vitamin c
3ccs iron injectable
2 1/2 ccs maxi-B 1000 (b shot basically)
20ccs ACV with molasses, mixed with 1human B complex pill and one magnesium pill, crushed. (This mixture is what I was giving her for the whole week, then I missed a couple days is all)
As well as some fresh green grass and quite a bit if fresh beet greens from the garden.

Today she is no better at all, maybe worse. She never stops panting, and I'm almost sure she is in pain of some kind, as she is still being vocal, almost all the time now. Still kind of seems like contractions on and off..
She doesn't like to move around, though I have seen her out grazing a few times.
She still has a voracious appetite though, and her pee and poo are completely normal, if not overly frequent.

Her lids are no different, still just barely have any pink at all.
Do y'all think I need to take her to the vet? (Bear in mind he does NOT know goats at all. )


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Vet. Now. Have an ultrasound done--look for tumours, possibly in the spleen. Look for broken bones. Look for aborting fetuses. Best of luck to you both.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

If you have the means, I would...good luck. Let us know!


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

The panting along with the other symptoms that you mentioned yesterday are what worry me. I recently lost a dog to tumours in the spleen, which were taking all her blood and making her gums, tongue, and whites of eyes pale, and her paws cool. Muscle contractions use a lot of oxygen, as we know when we exert ourselves and breathe more heavily to make up for the extra oxygen need. She tired easily and panted, because not enough red blood cells, which carry oxygen from the lungs, were circulating through the rest of her body, but were hogged by the tumor. My dog also had a great appetite, up to and including her last meal. She went down in a matter of minutes when her time came. I'm worried that something is using up all Ella's blood, like an internal wound from being butted, perhaps, if not an actual tumor.

So, Sarah, maybe tumors are not the problem specifically, but I suspect some sort of internal bleeding, like from being butted. Hoping something can be done. I don't think the issue will turn out to be goat-specific.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree... Sounds like its time for the vet... Even if they don't know goats, if they treat other livestock, they should be able to help. I would do an ultra sound, to make sure there is nothing abnormal going on.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I have to wonder what all that ACV is doing to her. It changes PH and as well contains potassium which can easily be ODed and causes heart attacks and such when the limit has been reached.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Okay I'll talk to my dad about that tonight. He's not going to like it, but I think he'll understand that it's necessary.  
I sure hope it's nothing too serious. 
Any idea what an ultrasound will cost?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

It really depends on the vet. If he won't believe you, have him read these posts.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

goathiker said:


> I have to wonder what all that ACV is doing to her. It changes PH and as well contains potassium which can easily be ODed and causes heart attacks and such when the limit has been reached.


I did not know it could be OD'd. :? I will stop giving it....


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> It really depends on the vet. If he won't believe you, have him read these posts.


The vet?
Or my dad? He'll understand, he just gets really serious and unhappy when one of the animals is sick, and it makes me feel bad to tell him since it bothers him so. :/


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Texaslass said:


> The vet?
> Or my dad? He'll understand, he just gets really serious and unhappy when one of the animals is sick, and it makes me feel bad to tell him since it bothers him so. :/


Ok. Well she needs to see the vet  Hopefully its nothing serious.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am sure your dad would rather help you with her then lose her. I would get her to a vet.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Thiamin is fine even past it's date as long as it has never frozen. If the last time they were copper bolused was June, it's also time for that and their Bo.Se.


:tears: Forgive me if I jump to conclusions, but I'm really worried now that I shouldn't have given copper again so soon! I gave it maybe a week ago.
She's got a lot of the symptoms of copper poisoning: http://veterinaryextension.colostate.edu/menu2/sm rum/Copper Poisoning vm-knight-engle.pdf


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

The worst of it is, the vets (not knowing that goats need additional copper) were very worried that I would poison them when I got the copper back when I first got some from them. If I take her there now and tell them I just gave her copper, they're going to think I'm an idiot and they're going to tell me that I shouldn't have. :doh:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Copper Oxide is not copper Sulfate. These poisonings, warnings, and articles are talking about Copper Sulfate. 
The heavy breathing can be a symptom of many things, 
Potassium Overdose
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-signs-of-a-potassium-overdose.htm

Vitamin B overdose
http://www.livestrong.com/article/404634-b-vitamin-overdose-symptoms/

Iron overdose
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002659.htm

Gut Pain
Miscarriage
False Labor


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

There are just too many things it could be! :hair: I don't know how to narrow it down!

Neither of the vets in the 2 closest towns to us have an ultrasound machine that works for goats. I'm going to keep looking around...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Start with Benedril in case it is an allergic reaction to the new B-12 shot.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Don't know if we have any, but we might.... what's the dosage for a Nigerian?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Not sure on the dosage. But a large dog ultrasound should work for a ND, I would think. Right?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

3/4 of a tablet.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Ok, we don't have any benedril right now. But I was out with her for quite while, and she seemed much perkier tonight. 
She had stopped panting, and didn't seem distressed. She was still a little vocal, but not as much. She just seemed calmer too.
So maybe the maxi-B didn't agree with her, or I gave too much? :/
I also took her temp; it was 103.2.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> Not sure on the dosage. But a large dog ultrasound should work for a ND, I would think. Right?


Yeah, an ultrasound machine for dogs should work just fine for small goats. Not sure if this holds any weight, but 15 years ago, an ultrasound was only $15-25... 
No idea on the prices now, sorry. I'm actually looking into buying an ultrasound machine, it would come in quite handy around here!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks guys, but I think they have one for cows. 
The phone girl asked someone else if it worked on goats (I'm assuming the vet) and got a no. :shrug:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

...Yeah, the ones for cows won't work... They don't use abdominal probes, they use a different one 

What about a vet that deals with small livestock?


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

So there's two vets near us-the two friendly, nice-albeit not goat savvy guys in a town ten miles away, and the rougher, less friendly, cut the animal up with blood spurting everywhere and toss em back in the truck with stitches and a bottle of PenG guy eight miles away. :lol:
The friendly ones (that we go to) deal with cows, horses, dogs and cats mostly, I think. The occasional Boer goat...
The other guy's probably the same. :/
I couldn't find anything tonight, the phone was tied up, then it was after hours, so I couldn't call...
There's a couple of bigger towns about 20-30 miles away, I'm goin To see what they have tomorrow...


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Today she's back to normal as far as I can tell!  :shrug:

Which is _great_ because it's a horrible time to have to be taking her to a vet right now.
My grandfather is in the hospital because he fell and hit his head (had stiches even) , and my parents are going to go see him today, so we won't be able to go the vet. (Nobody else here drives yet..:/)

I didn't give her any meds yesterday, just the usual alfalfa and stuff, a handful of grain, and some beet greens. She really seems okay, and I *think* her lids are a teensy bit pinker. 
So as of today, her symptoms-if that's what we want to call them- are simply:

Really pale lids,
Lowish energy
Frequent urination/bowel movements?

If you can call that last a symptom... I'm pretty sure she just does that when she's nervous, which is a lot, because she's not super people-friendly anyway, and now that I've been dosing her all the time, she won't come to me unless I have grain or something, and if I follow her, she often stops to go to the bathroom. :/

Anyway, she really seems fine otherwise... Is there something obvious that I'm missing that she needs, or what??


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Without looking back through all the pages - are you giving her any kind of iron supplement? She definitely needs it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sarah..is your ACV 50/50 with water? 20 cc of 50/50 mix should be safe...

at this time I think if she were mine, I would stop the B's, ACV, all the extras...give her body time to work it all out...rest..
keep plain fresh water..even warmed to encourage her to drink...Fresh Dill to help cleanse her kidney ( Goathiker taught me that) and hay along with her minerals...
A week of nothing but normal food and a close watch..keep an eye on her energy level, her anemia issue and be sure she is eating drinking peeing and pooping well..

Best wishes...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

have you had blood drawn to check her iron levels? with all she got she shoul dhave pinked up by now...she may have naturally pale eyes...


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Thanks Cathy- I was going to do just that, leave her alone more or less for a while and see how she does. 

I don't have any fresh dill right now I don't think, but I'll keep that in mind. 

Yes, the ACV was always 50/50.
And she always has fresh water, baking soda, minerals, hay and alfalfa pellets. 

Zebradreams- yes, she has had TONS of iron supplements. 

I have not drawn blood at all yet. I was going to watch the vet do it a couple of times before I tried, but expenses are crazy right now, and what with one thing or a another, we just have not even gotten to testing yet, unfortunately.
I fully intend to the moment I can, trust me!

She seems okay for now, so I'm going to keep a close watch on her and see how she does. 

Thank you all for your help and advice! I will keep you posted.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I hear you, this time of year can add to money stresses as well....hope her break from all the meds, vitamins and ACV helps : )


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

So I'm a bit stumped.
Cinderella seems to be doing pretty well; she kidded just fine as well, on the 7th.

But she still has very pale lids and I have noticed that every so often she gets low energy and seems to be short of breath as well, even in cool weather. 
When she gets like that, I give her a shot of Maxi B (http://www.durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=129:maxi-b-1000 -The closest thing I have at the moment to Fortified b complex) 
That seems to perk her up, and add some pink to her lids for a few days, but then it starts all over again. :scratch:
I haven't noticed any other symptoms at all..

She is UTD on BoSe, copper, coat looks nice... I did just have a lice problem, but I really don't think she was super infested or anything. In fact, I couldn't see any on her, but I treated everybody anyway.
I de-wormed her right after she kidded with Molly's (first time I've used Molly's), so I don't really suspect worms, though I intend to do a fecal as soon as I can, just haven't had a chance to yet.

I just wonder what this could be, if it isn't worms or cocci? 
Anything come to mind?

Oh, and our vet just does a fecal float; do y'all think it would be better if I sent a sample to WADDL instead? Or would a float be enough?

Just wondering what y'alls thoughts are, thank you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had a few Goats who seems slow and lazier than usual, I did daily B complex for a few days and they seem better...all else was well...some things to consider would be sluggish rumen...Vitamin/iron deficiency..worms...
A more in debth fecal wouldnt hurt....


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

:think:

It's just she's been like this for a long time... I will be thinking about it and researching.

I did start giving her Replamin plus gel a little while ago- I have given it twice, a few days apart, and I intend to keep it up for a while and see if that helps.

Yeah, I think I'll do WADDL or some other lab...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Don't forget though. The parasites don't lay eggs in the winter so, there's none to show up on fecal even if they are heavily burdened.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Don't forget though. The parasites don't lay eggs in the winter so, there's none to show up on fecal even if they are heavily burdened.


Oh yeah. :/
So, how do you know to worm or not? What do you for _your_ goats in the winter?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Heavy load usually means anemia, lethargic, Poor condition..sluggishness, rough coat ect....


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Heavy load usually means anemia, lethargic, Poor condition..sluggishness, rough coat ect....


:doh: Of course, what was I thinking? 

That's another odd thing about her though, her coat is very nice- it was starting to get a little rusty, but after I last bloused her, it is now nearly all black again. And shiny, soft...
And she's a very easy keeper, it's hard to keep her from getting fat. :lol:

Like I said, other than being anemic and low energy, she seems A-Okay. :shrug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would keep up with the B complex and probios daily for a while, see how she does..


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

:thumbup:


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