# Goiter or Something Else???



## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I noticed about 2-3weeks ago that one of our boer bucks had a large lump under his jaw (sort of in his dewlap). I assumed it was just a goiter, although I have no experience with those in older goats. He has constent access to loose salt, mineral and baking soda. It has since gotten larger, went from apple sized to grapefruit size now.
It is more to the his left side. It does seem to be attached under his jaw, but it hangs in his delwap, if that makes sense. I can't find any puncture marks or hair loss and it doesn't seem to hurt him when I touch it. He eats & drinks fine, acts bucky, roars, his coat looks good, he's still nice and fleshy, normal temp, good eye colour..... 

Our vet has a scheduled visit on the 23rd of June, but should I maybe have him come look at this sooner??


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

The pic doesn't show his whole face but... it May be barberpole worms/ bottle jaw.... how is the gum/eye color?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I don't think its bottle jaw....we've had that once and it didn't look anything at all like this. This is a mass, a large round ball.
He was just wormed the 1st of may with noromectin (canadian brand of ivermectin). His gum/eye colour is normal.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

This mass doesn't really touch his jawline.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Isn't goiter more prone in nursing kids? I assumed it just affected kids, but learn something new everyday.

Most of our kids had goiters, and they were small and big, but very soft/squishy. Most have gone down now to thin hanging skin since we started weaning.


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## Robynlynn (Jan 18, 2011)

what does the lump feel like? hard or squishy? :?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I think milk goiters are totally different.....
Here's what's in my goat vet book:
Iodine deficiency (goiter) - This is a constituent of the tyroid hormones, and 70 to 80 per cent of the iodine in the body is in the thyroid gland. IN the the unborn and young goat, iodine influences developemnt; in the adult, basal metabolism and fertility. Surplus iodone is excreted in the urine. In the kid, iodine deficiency results in increased size of the thyroid gland; also slow growth and reduced vitality. In the adult, it reduces appetite and conception rate and causes abortions. Kids may be born hairless. Certain feeds, clovers and brassicas, tend to cause goiter, and to counteract this effect, extra iodine should be given: up to 2mg/kg of dry matter fed.

SO I don't know, maybe its not a goiter....I think the thyroid gland is behind the trachea right? The mass is deffinitely in front of the trachea....Also, this mass is quite hard, not as hard as a rock, but solid.

And I don't know if age is anything here, but he's only 3. CL negative in may, so I highly doubt its that.

I am completely stumped. I tried looking down his throat but it was next to impossible. :GAAH:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

I would sure want to find out what it is. From these pics it doesn't look like a CL abscess, but a negative test doesn't necessarily mean anything. You get a fairly high number of false negatives from the blood test. Only a culture of the stuff in the abscess is reliable. 

Jan


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I think I'm calling to call the vets office and see if they think he needs to be seen right away.
Now I'm worried it might be the dreaded "C" word.....I've lost a goat to cancer already. It was lymphoma though, and the large mass was on the does side, she had trouble breathing and gurgled alot, we had our vet put her down :tears: .


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I spoke with the vets office, they said there's no point in having the vet come sooner unless he goes downhill (off feed, etc).
They didn't think it sounded like a goiter. They said a goiter will be up close to the throat area, it will not hang down, and he would have started to loose weight.
So the vet will look at it on the 23rd when he comes to do the routine stuff.
This wait is going to drive me nuts.....anyone have anything like this before??


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I would have a fecal test done, or just worm him heavy and see if it gets better. But I agree doesn't look like any bottle jaw that I have seen befor.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Someone suggested that I should email The Goat Lady, here's her reply: (what a great person, such a quick response too!!!)
_If this were bottle jaw it would be up higher.. more toward the chin and with this size would begin to effect the face as well- looks like goiter to me.. IODINE in the salt is needed if this is the case... it does not appear to be in the correct position for CLA.. usually one side or the other for that.. I would start with goiter.. and have your vet take a look as son as he can.. in the meantime I'd offer handfuls of Iodized salt to him.. it "may" begin to decrease if this is a goiter.. (Boer goats and Angora goats are more susceptible to dietary goiter than other breeds) 
Im sending you some websites I did a quick search on for you.. see if this fits.. if not I would suspect something has entered and is infected.. a thorn, piece of hay or something worked it's way into the throat. 
Finally it may be a tumor (thyroid adenoma). 
_

One of the links she sent me says a quick way to get iodine into the goat is to paint 7% iodine on their tail web. I'm going to try that, as well as move his salt around and see if it attracts his attention better.
I hope its not a tumor, and the vet will have to check if something is down his throat - we can't do it, he's just too big and tuff!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is very informative...glad you where given such great advice....and it will help others...thank you..... :thumb: :hug: :hi5:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I had a doe with lump on her lower neck. Of course we feared the worse. There was no sign of injry, until we shaved it. We found a teeny tiny puncture.
A sample was sent to WADDL & the results showed some staph infection, ecoli & a few other things consistent with being poked with a sharp object that had manure on it.
No CL.


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

I thought that Boers were susceptible to goiters due to iodine deficiency? This is absolutely posed as a question ~ I had heard that it was common for them to show the deficiency like this.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

> That is very informative...glad you where given such great advice....and it will help others...thank you..... :thumb: :hug: :hi5:


It's helped someone else already. I was about to post a picture and description just like this when I saw this post. Thank you for this vital info.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

I've had goats for 15 yrs and I've never come across this in my adult goats before, so I wasn't too sure.

So yesterday my husband and I painted his tail web with iodine (I was very careful not to rub in it in too much, didn't want to blister the poor guy). It sure wasn't easy to do a 250lb goat that wants to know what the heck is going on :laugh: . And I also painted some directly on the lump, again careful not to cause scurf, but I figured it really couldn't hurt at this point.
He has absolutely no interest in his salt, so we will have to figure something else out.

I will keep everyone posted on the results!! Fingers crossed that this will help.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

keep us posted. :thumbup: Hope it starts to help soon.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> It's helped someone else already. I was about to post a picture and description just like this when I saw this post. Thank you for this vital info.


 :thumbup: :hug: :leap:



> I've had goats for 15 yrs and I've never come across this in my adult goats before, so I wasn't too sure.
> 
> So yesterday my husband and I painted his tail web with iodine (I was very careful not to rub in it in too much, didn't want to blister the poor guy). It sure wasn't easy to do a 250lb goat that wants to know what the heck is going on :laugh: . And I also painted some directly on the lump, again careful not to cause scurf, but I figured it really couldn't hurt at this point.
> He has absolutely no interest in his salt, so we will have to figure something else out.
> ...


 I am praying that everything works out.... ray: :hug: 
With the salt....does he love grain..maybe sprinkle a little in it.... :wink:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

He LOVES his grain, but when I put some salt in it he curled up his lip after the first bite and walked away.

BUT my wonderful husband reminded me about a doe we bought a few years ago, she would not a thing when she got here, not hay, not grain, not pasture, nothing. It didn't take her long to get grossly thin, had her tested for Johnnes, CAE & CL, all negative. So frustrating, there was not a thing wrong with her, she was just anorexic (I believe from leaving her buddies). So anyway I started pouring C'mere Deer on all her feed. They aren't kidding about it being "Deer Crack".....she couldn't get enough, gobbled up everything!!! We now have no troubles with her eating or keeping wait on.

Sorry for the rant there lol, but I think I'm going to try mixing the C'mere Deer powder with his salt!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Sorry for the rant there lol, but I think I'm going to try mixing the C'mere Deer powder with his salt!!


 HeHe...no problem.... Where do you get C'mere Deer powder and what is it exactly for?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Its a deer attractant - deer go nuts for it, we use it at the back of our property to bring the deer in closer, we don't shoot them but its great getting to see them. Since goats are browers too, I thought I'd try it. It worked wonders for that doe, and I tried it on my buck and he ate some salt tonight :leap: .

Here's the website: http://www.cmeredeer.com/
I believe in the US you can just get it at your local walmart (not in canada though), but I order it from horseloverz.com. You can get a liquid or a powder.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow thanks for the info .... :thumbup: glad it is working on the buck ....and may be a great trick sometime down the road :hi5: :thumb: :greengrin:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

cmere deer is for sale at Walmart but maybe not this time of year. 
any hunting store would have it year round.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

I was just getting on to post almost the same question. My 2 yr old doe has what looks like an enlarged thymus. Right about the same spot as your boy but up just a little higher.
I've offered kelp and everyone fights over tje stuff. Thanks for posting and Please keep us up to date on his progress. Looks like there's several of us who are very interested in this topic.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Well no change at all so far, but I'll keep being hopeful.
We are putting the iodine on daily, both on his tail & the lump.
I want to try injectable iodine when the vet comes, depending on what he thinks.

The good news is though, at least it does not appear to be getting bigger at this point.

So for anyone else treating it, let me know how quickly you see results.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: ray:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Well, still no change and its a been a week, I'm thinking I should have seen at least a tiny change by now..... :? 
I can't find anywhere where it says how quickly this can be cleared up if it is goiter.
Vet comes next week.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Well, the mass is noticibly bigger today  . 

Randi and bleatinghearts are you making progress with treating yours??


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh darn! WHen does the vet come?


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

I've been following your post and Really hoping for a good outcome for your boy. The mistery of Sara's enlarged thymus was solved when I came home to find that Sara's doeling had gotten out and into the next yard and Sara had her head stuck in the fence. Husband said it had been happening a lot lately. I almost posted about it here a few days ago but Im feeling so bad for you and your boy that I decided not to. Hang in there.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Vet comes on the 23rd. Feels so far away. At least he is still acting like he's doing okay.
We are going to stop treating him now though, since we aren't doing him any good, I think its best to stop pestering him and wait for the vet now. My gut tells me this isn't good, but I hope its wrong. ray: 

Well I'm happy for you that your goat is okay! :leap: .

Going to try and get some more photos of the mass today.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Well, after writing my previous post I went out to do chores and promptly put my foot in my mouth  . He won't eat, and he seems very depressed now.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I would seriously get a fecal done ASAP (the vet's coming out on the 23rd, I'd *try* to get it done before then). My buck had a swelling on his neck that looked similar, and he started going downhill fairly quickly, starting out the same way. He wouldn't touch feed, then he got weak and wouldn't walk very far before collapsing. I'm praying it's not the same thing with your buck, it ended up being liver fluke with mine. Didn't get it treated in time.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Thank you for sharing that! I looked up treatments, and they reccomend ivomecPlus injectable. I can't get ivomecPlus here, does anyone know of any equivalent?

I wish you could all feel it, it seems to have become larger, rounder, and lower. But its really hard to see in the photos. I was able to get him to take a handful of hay, but I think he mostly just played with it in his mouth.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

From what I can find, it's either IvomecPlus or the Clorsulon portion itself (Curatrem, according to one article). Liver fluke's nasty, and that's pretty much the only way to treat it. I'd send you my bottle if I could, but I don't know that that's even legal or possible.

In the bottom pictures, it doesn't really look attached to anything but his dewlap, making me think it may be a massive abscess that could be causing pain aorund the jaw/throat area, making him not want to eat. I don't really know if it's suggested, but you could try a painkiller and see if that doesn't help a bit.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

TheMixedBag said:


> I'd send you my bottle if I could, but I don't know that that's even legal or possible.


That's okay, canada post is on strike anyway :roll: .

It is in his dewlap mostly, but still connected to his throat.

I've been trying to get the vet all day, no luck yet.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

You could try Ibuprofen or aspirin for now and see if that doesn't improve anything, at least while you're trying to get ahold of the vet. According to Fiasco's site, aspirin is 1 pill per 10lb, and ibuprofen is twice the human dose.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The Canadian brand of Iver-plus is called Noromectin Plus. It's exactly the same. Dosed at 1cc. per 33lbs.
I've also seen lumps something like that from goats sticking their heads thru cattle panels. (Zinc poisoning from the galvinized coating).
The iodine may or may not work. It's one of the old wives tales. Kelp contains Iodide which is the nutrient missing in goiter.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Mine has not changed since I first noticed it. The vet is coming Monday for some other issues and I will point it out to him.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Alright, it is NOT goiter and deffinitely an abcess of some sort.

The vet took a sample of the fluid in the abcess for testing, it was a white fluid with a pinkish tint to it, and he didn't take very much. He does not think its CL, but we'll see. Now the part that confused me: He lanced it, but nothing came out, not even a little bit. Just a bit of blood. Is that normal?????
All he said was that we should keep an eye on it & keep it clean and he'll get back to us with the results.

I also asked about liverfluke, and he said not with our setup and he's never heard of it in our area. I did check with the feed stores, and no one carries the Noromectin Plus, just the regular Noromectin (which is what we use).


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Quite bizarre... that nothing came out of there.... it is huge :shocked: ...did the vet cut deep enough to get to it? :hug:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

It looks even bigger now that its shaved.

I've never seen a lance like this, he did a 1/2 inch X. Maybe its not deep enough....poor guy. I wish we could change vets, but this is the only one available to us, not too informed about goats though.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

With an incision that deep...I'd have to say that this is likely a tumor of sorts because an abcess even if it wasn't "ripe" would have still yielded and there would have been a mess as well as the lump would have deflated. I hope your boy can recover and I hope the lab work comes back soon with answers.

You have a very handsome boy there...have you kept any of his bucklings just in the case that you can't breed him again?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

liz said:


> With an incision that deep...I'd have to say that this is likely a tumor of sorts because an abcess even if it wasn't "ripe" would have still yielded and there would have been a mess as well as the lump would have deflated. I hope your boy can recover and I hope the lab work comes back soon with answers.
> 
> You have a very handsome boy there...have you kept any of his bucklings just in the case that you can't breed him again?


I was afraid of that, but it does deffinitely have puss in it, we saw him draw some out. I don't think he lanced it in the same spot, which also strikes me as odd.

Thank you, we've never got a buck kid yet from him believe it or not. But we have all of his daughters.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Well...hopefully the wait won't be too long for the lab report. The area that the vet cut will need to be watched, do as you would with any wound and it should heal fine.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

At least he's been by himself too just incase. I can't pen him up with anyone else, he's a bit of bully, not to people just the other goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: ray:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

So there was still nothing coming out of the abcess, and the spot the vet lanced has pretty much healed over. So this morning I took it upon myself to do some of my own vet work on it.

I took an 18 gauge needle and syringe and I stuck it in the spot I thought should have been lanced in the first place, and I pulled out 10cc of liquid puss. Yellowish in colour this time, not pinkish.

Then, I got out my scalpel and I lanced it, in the spot I had put the needle, not somewhere else. The puss just started pouring out. So I got the abcess all cleaned out, rinsed the inside with iodine, sprayed on some blue kote,
cleaned up my mess and burnt everything just incase. 

Thank goodness we went with concreate floors and burnable wood pens in the quarantine barn!

So now we sit back and wait for results..... ray: .


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

good for you! Sorry the vet did not do this for you-- :shrug: 

Praying ray: for good news.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Sounds like a good thing you played vet and got it all cleaned out. Whatever it is I bet the goat feels better without that huge bump. 
Hope the results are ok. ray:


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

You rock! Sometimes we have to go with our gut. Have you heard back on any test results or have I missed that?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I would have done the same thing....hopefully this is just a staph type abcess from a splinter and your boy gets healthy and stays that way!

BTW....How many did it take to hold the handsome brute while you played Dr.?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone.



liz said:


> BTW....How many did it take to hold the handsome brute while you played Dr.?


Actually.....NONE :laugh: . He's a very mild tempered boy (which is why he's a favourite here), well maybe not when he's in rut... I just gave him a feeder with some grain in it, he didn't much care what I was doing. Worked good too, because it helped push the abscess to the side for easy access. He did look pretty relieved too, but his dewlap was looking pretty saggy!

Haven't gone out yet this morning, but last night it looked like it was swelling again, will I have to keep draining it? I should have video taped what I did, you would not believe the amount of puss that came out :shocked: , I couldn't imagine more coming out.....


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would think that you will have to keep it drained and clean until it heals up.


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

Do you think antibiotics would be useful?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It will keep filling if it isn't allowed to heal inside to out....you'll need to really flush the hole out well, use a dish soap bottle or something with a similar top to it that allows you to put a good amount of an iodine or betadine solution in it , insert the tip and squeeze the bottle to force the liquid into the cavity...will be messy but worth it. Coat the edges of the incision with a triple antibiotic ointment ( dollar store has tubes of it for a buck) and place a wad of gauze over it...then vet wrap around his neck to keep the gauze in place....you'll need to do this every day to ensure the abcess isn't festering, once the inside starts to heal you'll notice swelling going down, you don't want to see it scab over, keep the opening moist to allow for any draining. It will take a week or 2 before you see any improvement but as long as he's happy and being himself, the wait is worth the effort.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with Liz.... :thumb: 


Also... the iodine may swell them up.... if it is too strong...make it a light tea color ...if it can drain well... it will help to allow the iodine to escape and not pocket up in there allowing it to swell....

I am sorry your vet didn't do right by you.... with an abscess that big...he needed to find where the pocket was... :doh: 

I recommend... seeking a new vet if possible..... :hug:

Good luck with the results... :hug:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Thanks for the great tips Liz & Pam.

I'm very disapointed with our vet, this is not the first time I've felt ripped off either.
I need help with this, the spot I lanced (an inch long) keeps closing, its not draining properly. Its nearly as big as it was before again, and I don't want to keep cutting the poor guy.
We finally located an ACTUAL goat vet only 2 hrs away, so we will be making phone calls today.
I want to wait for the results to come back first though, because if it is CL, this is all for nothing.......


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks for the great tips Liz & Pam.
> 
> I'm very disapointed with our vet, this is not the first time I've felt ripped off either.
> I need help with this, the spot I lanced (an inch long) keeps closing, its not draining properly. Its nearly as big as it was before again, and I don't want to keep cutting the poor guy.
> ...


 You are so welcome... :hug:

Take some sterile gauze and soak it with the diluted Iodine and insert it in the wound....leaving enough sticking out of it to grab... so when you are ready to flush it the next day... the abscess opening...will be open for you...

Glad you found another goat vet.... :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You are welcome :hug: 

As Pam said, use the moistened gauze to help keep the hole open...and I hope these results come back fast!


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Many thanks again! I'm going to get some gauze now, but I will need to wait for help this time. I think even this patient boy has his limits.
No word back from either vet yet.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: :thumbup:


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, my vet just left. He thinks it looks like CL but the goat has all her hair and no skin lesion. The aspirate was creamy white, at least 3cc's. We lanced it, and packed it, and put her in the house as we have no quarantine space. Now I will be in a fret until the culture comes back. Not only that, after monthly exposures, I think she finally settled!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Didn't you say this was hanging in his dewlap? CL abcesses can't be moved around, They are attached to the lymph nodes, actually they're in the lymph nodes. Also they get big and burst fast, they don't hang aroung for a week. CL pus is chunky and STINKS. So hopefully it's all good.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Well, my vet just left. He thinks it looks like CL but the goat has all her hair and no skin lesion. The aspirate was creamy white, at least 3cc's. We lanced it, and packed it, and put her in the house as we have no quarantine space. Now I will be in a fret until the culture comes back. Not only that, after monthly exposures, I think she finally settled!!


 In the house I hope you know that it is contagious to humans as well..... 



> Didn't you say this was hanging in his dewlap? CL abcesses can't be moved around, They are attached to the lymph nodes, actually they're in the lymph nodes. Also they get big and burst fast, they don't hang aroung for a week. CL pus is chunky and STINKS. So hopefully it's all good.


 All that I have read about CL ...the pus doesn't have an odor....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

This is what I've been told by experienced breeders I know. That it often has a greenish cast to it too. Or do I have it backwards and staff stinks? Shoot, now I gotta go dig my notebook out from under the bed. The bad thing is it can sometimes infect abcesses that started for other reasons.
I hope it all goes well.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

> Also they get big and burst fast, they don't hang aroung for a week.


The abscess has been around for quite a while without changing size or shape. There has never been any hair loss and it has always been a soft abscess.

The exudate was nothing like typical CL. Not cheesy, no greenish or even yellowish coloring. (Usually these colorings are indicative of infection, worsening the greener it gets.)

I did not know CL was contagious to humans. :shocked: 
I do know that staph stinks having smelled it often as a nurse. 
My farm hand will be here shortly and we will change the packing. Then we will move her. I'm waiting for the rescue to call and let me know if I can borrow on of the quarantine stalls.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> This is what I've been told by experienced breeders I know. That it often has a greenish cast to it too. Or do I have it backwards and staff stinks? Shoot, now I gotta go dig my notebook out from under the bed. The bad thing is it can sometimes infect abscesses that started for other reasons.
> I hope it all goes well.


 In everything I have read about CL it doesn't have an odor at all....... staff can really stink I do know that.. :wink:



> I did not know CL was contagious to humans. :shocked:
> I do know that staph stinks having smelled it often as a nurse.
> My farm hand will be here shortly and we will change the packing. Then we will move her. I'm waiting for the rescue to call and let me know if I can borrow on of the quarantine stalls.


 Yes it is ...so until you see the results... it is wise to play it safe...... :hug:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

CL can be caught by humans, but apparently not easily, there are very few documented cases, and they were cured, with great difficulty. Most of them were in people who worked in slaughter houses. There were like 20 over 40 years or something. I saw a study on it that was posted on an email list, I think it was this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9114145, but I can't figure out how to make it display the full report, which is what I read. It says it is free but shows no way to get it. (If you figure it out please let me know. I will repost if I find it.)


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Here it is, http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/185.long. It downloads as a pdf file.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I also did some researching and discovered that indeed there are actually quite a few documented cases worldwide. In Australia, for instance, it has been documented among workers skinning sheep. 

Meantime, of course, it is prudent to follow the advise of those one asks. Loca has been removed to a separated stall and I am handling her only with gloves.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I guess that means we can't show :sigh:


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/10801.htm I thought this was a really good link too.

When I got home from Market tonight I found the goat out of the quarantine stall and locked in the goat pen with all the other goats but one. What now?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would try an d separate her again and see if you can make it more secure. 
How long did they say till results come back? 
ray: That they come back negative.


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

Happy  ...Any word yet regarding the test results? How is your boy doing?


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Still have not heard back. But I really don't feel this is CL. Goathiker, now that I can really feel where the lump was, its not anywhere near the lymph nodes. So fingers still crossed!

The lump is doing very good now. The swelling has really gone down. I'm still rinsing it and packing it with the gauze as suggested and I think we are on the right track now. :hi5: He's not so happy about what I'm doing anymore though, but can't say I blame him!

Randi I hope we both get our results back soon!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Not being happy is always a good sign. Fingers crossed.

Hey, Shelly. I lived in Tok for a couple years, absolutely loved it up there.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I am really hopeful for you. I called the vet today to check on results and he didn't send the culture. He says he is for sure it is CL. Now, I have to draw labs on 12 goats that at best will give questionable results because I no longer have a sample. :tears:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Oh Randi, sorry to hear that!


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I may have my boys castrated and close the herd. This could be the safest solution besides culling.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Ok, I spoke with the vet at the New Bolton Center of U of P. She says it is extremely unlikely that the lesion Loca had is CL. She recommended testing just Loca first and perhaps if she is ++ worry about the others. I think that's what I will do. Does anyone know what color tube I need and where to send it?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

For blood sample I sent mine to WADDL (WSU). Here is the form http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/forms/AcessionGeneralDiagnosticsWADDL.pdf Note that you want CL tested and if you choose they also test other things. Here is the fee shcedual http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/fees.aspx
From there you can go to the shipping instructions. They ask you to use a red top tube and collect a few to 5cc's. They set up their tests on Wenesdays and results by Friday. PM me if you need more info. ray: It all works out ok.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Crossing my fingers the first vet was wrong and it's not CL. :hug:


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

Oh my! Were you under the impression your first vet was testing the fluid and he didnt and didn't tell you? Man, you need a :hug: and maybe a glass of wine. Praying again that things turn out good and you get some answers soon. ray:


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks, Logan,
I checked out their site and their prices and it is do-able. So I will get a few red tops or tiger tops (SST) and get to work. I guess it will take two of us. She wasn't very co-operative about getting the wound cleaned. Now it has turned green and smells like Pseudomonas. I will flush it out with LA200 and pack it again with Betadine.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Yes you will need someone to hold her still.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I just got a better plan. The best plan. I am taking Cashie the Gimpy Goat to see the doc at U of P. I just called and got Loca in on the deal. They will assess the wound, treat it and do cultures without blowing me off!! Imagine that! Of course the down side is that it is a 3 1/2 hour drive. What we don't do for love. :greengrin:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:thumb:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, you were doing the drive already so now it's only an hour and 45 minutes per goat. That's awesome, I like working with teaching hospitals.


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## BoerKikoLady (Nov 2, 2010)

If it were CL (which I dont think it is but I am not a vet) They can make a serum to give your other goats as a vaccination.

Time to find a new vet, hard finding good ones in your area (I use to live there)


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

Sounds like a good reason for a road trip!


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

So Loca went to the New Bolton Center--that's where they took care of Barbaro. The vets are super.

The wound was shaved and cleaned. Then they did an ultrasound of her neck. Though there are normally no lymph nodes in this part of the neck, something showed in the ultrasound that may have been a misplaced piece of lymph tissue. There was a great deal of fluid so they did an ultrasound guided aspiration and sent a culture. They also drew blood for a CL assay. The doc says it could be CL but it could be a lot of other stuff too. I guess we are back to the waiting game.

I learned this interesting piece of information: There are only 2 labs in the country that do CL, CAE and Johns testing. They are WADDL and UC Davis.
The vet told me that he was sending out the samples to UC Davis.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

There are other labs that do the testing. I think the two you mentioned are certified to do the test.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

YEAH!!! ITS NOT CL!!!!!
:thumb:  :leap: :clap: :hi5: :applaud: :stars: :wahoo: :dance: 

Sorry, I'm pretty happy with that. Vet says more then likely he got a sliver that festered, which is entirely possible given we have wood penning for him and he likes to trash the place!

He is healing up nicely, and once the shaved hair comes back in all the way he'll be good as new!! 

PHEW!!


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

:stars: :leap: :stars:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:leap: I am so happy for you and your boy!!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

What wonderful news!!! Even though the location wasn't one that brought me to think CL, I'm so glad you had it tested for peace of mind...and very glad that he is healing and doing well :leap:


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

AwEsOmE!!!!


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Thanks everyone. My husband was even more happier then me when he got home. I even caught him out in the barn giving him a good scratching and some treats lol.

Randi, keep us posted on yours, ray: you have the same good results!


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

I'll let you know. I'm remaining hopeful. Loca's swelling is about gone now and she's eating well and playing. So good signs I hope.

I'm so happy for YOU!!....and your boy. You guys went through so much.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

And the results are in............CL negative!!! We are clean and normal again!
:stars: :stars:  :stars: :stars:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Good to hear! :stars: :hi5:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

:stars: 

Randi that's excellent news!!


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Thank you, guys. I guess now that we are ALL healthy we can put this one to bed :thumb:


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

Amen to that! :hi5: 

I have to say, it sure pays to have them tested, we would have culled this buck....and he is a very valuble asset to our herd and a beloved friend....


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm happy it all turned out well. A couple years back a friend's goat had the same type mass as yours and no one could figure it out. She finally took the goat to Cornell and it was diagnosed to be an out of control salivery gland. The vets did surgery and he's fine.


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