# Death in kids



## NDgirl (Dec 10, 2013)

I had 3 babies die on Wednesday but I don't really know why. They are all siblings. Same mom and father. But they also had same father as the other 7 babies. 
We went to get them disbudded. They were about 3 weeks and their horns were coming up out of the skin but we did another buck who had longer horns. Anyways it was the same person who did the rest of our babies this year. They were all fine when put them in before and right after getting them done. It wasn't until 10 minutes later we stopped and I checked on them. They were all laying on top of each other, panting really hard. I took out the doe to make some space for the two bucks. She rode home in my arms. Her neck and head really floppy. She freak every so often and hit me. Still breathing weird. When we got home she stopped breathing. Wen to check on the other two. Both alive and took them out to see how they were doing. Another one of them died in my hands. The last one was breathing hard and also had a floppy head like the rest of them. Took him to mom and tried to get he to stand. He wouldn't. Gave him a shot of bosiva. He lived about 2 hours longer than the other two. We called many people and no one really knew why they died like that. Some said it was a shock or they had a heart attack. But we don't understand how all three died the same way. I can understand one but three confuses me. Does anyone have any idea how this could of cause this? Or what made them die?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If they all died immediately after disbudding my first thought would be that they were overburned and the brain was damaged.


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## Nubian_Nut (Dec 21, 2012)

I agree with Wild Hearts Ranch. I lost a kid to that last October. Same symptoms. Droopy, lethargic and labored breathing. Lost her the same day she was disbudded.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Sounds like they died from disbudding complications. Possibly stress, overheating, holding the disbudder on too long causing swelling on the brain or something else. They shouldn't be disbudded so late next time. You want to get it done within the first week for most kids. I also would recommend finding someone else to do the disbudding. Losing any to disbudding is very uncommon...to lose three is unacceptable. Sorry for your loss.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh wow, that's awful! I certainly wouldn't go to that same person next time you disbud. And as others said, do it earlier so they don't have to be burned as long. I'm sorry for you loss  .


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

That is just too sad. I am very sorry.


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## LoriH (Jan 12, 2014)

Feeling so sad for you. What an awful experience.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I always give a shot of banamine about 30 minutes prior to disbudding.


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## Hodgson (Jan 7, 2014)

Oh that poor mama goat, she must be so confused about where her babies went. 
Poor babies too, what a horrible way to die.


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## NDgirl (Dec 10, 2013)

Thank you for the responses. We did bring another before that was like 3-4 weeks old. He is fine so I don't really understand how this effected them more. Almost everyone in our 4-h group goes to this person to do disbudded so I don't really think it is his fault. Could it have been something else?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I had a year where almost every one of my kids was affected by disbudding. They all were done by a very experienced person. She was very careful and did it the same way all the time. She did it for me previous years with no problems. A shot of Banamine took care of the problem for every kid. Since then, I always give a shot of Banamine prior to disbudding and have not seen any problems since.

You would have had to do a necropsy to find out if it could have possibly been something else. But everything points to the disbudding.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so sorry got your loss. That has to be horrible.


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## NDgirl (Dec 10, 2013)

We found out friday what happened to our goats. The same person did 2 more goats at our 4-h meeting and the same thing happen to them. Droopy head, not breathing well,ect. One of the parents was a nurse and tried to give it CPR. She said her lips felt numb afterwords. The owners of the babies called a vet and the vet ended up saying it was the spray he was using. The spray had something in it that is poisonous to goats. I think they said it was ladicaine. They were going to do a third baby but once they saw what happen to the others they didnt. So they saved one. Thanks for your help. Be careful about using spray now.


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## ArborGoats (Jan 24, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I had a year where almost every one of my kids was affected by disbudding. They all were done by a very experienced person. She was very careful and did it the same way all the time. She did it for me previous years with no problems. A shot of Banamine took care of the problem for every kid. Since then, I always give a shot of Banamine prior to disbudding and have not seen any problems since.
> 
> You would have had to do a necropsy to find out if it could have possibly been something else. But everything points to the disbudding.


I was wondering how much banamine you give the kids before disbudding? I have read you mention it multiple times and would love to know because we have banamine for the horses and I have kids to be disbudded in the next couple of days.

Thank you for any help! It is greatly appreciated.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is always 1cc per 100 lbs. I keep 1cc syringes on hand for those tiny doses.


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## Tapsmom (Sep 20, 2011)

He had a bucket of different sprays so he might have used different ones for the three that died and one that lived


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

NDgirl said:


> We found out friday what happened to our goats. The same person did 2 more goats at our 4-h meeting and the same thing happen to them. Droopy head, not breathing well,ect. One of the parents was a nurse and tried to give it CPR. She said her lips felt numb afterwords. The owners of the babies called a vet and the vet ended up saying it was the spray he was using. The spray had something in it that is poisonous to goats. I think they said it was ladicaine. They were going to do a third baby but once they saw what happen to the others they didnt. So they saved one. Thanks for your help. Be careful about using spray now.


Yep! My local goat mentor, who also disbudds my babies, told me EMPHATICALLY, NEVER ever use anything with lidocaine in it. So sorry for the loss of your babies.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very old thread.


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