# Congested udder?



## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Our doe with 4 week old kids has, what I am discovering by reading up on, is, we assume, a congested udder. I've searched some old forum posts for advice but it isn't clearing up. 
She looks "full", her bag is very hard. The bucklings look like they're getting "enough" and she'll milk out about 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart AM and PM for me before her nipples just go flat and NOTHING comes out. But the bag is still clearly full looking, one side more so than the other. Its also lumpy, looks like she has cellulite! 

I've been massaging her udder four times a day, yesterday & today, with hot water compress and peppermint oil. No real change from Thursday evening when I realized that something wasn't right. 

I do not understand what the link between this & CAE is but, for what its worth, she was tested negative for CAE 60 days ago.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like you are doing everything right...I had to message until my arms felt like noodles...
I use whipped coconut oil and add vit e and peppermint EO as my balm
Warm compresses for 5-10 minutes then message message message, milk milk milk.repeat...I would go at least 30-40 minutes...3-4 times a day...Vit C chewables help too...also some feel fresh Parsley helps..although I haven't tried it ..
The messages need to be deep but gentle, bouncing like the kids do....dont bruise her lol..keep it up and you will help her and she will feel tons better : )


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you tested her for mastitis?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks -


I do not have any mastitis tests, yet, but I did do the half cup warm water, a couple drops of dish soap and a half cup of milk test. If that is actually accurate...? Wasn't slimy.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like you need to keep doing what you are doing. I wonder if using Vicks Vaporub would work better. I remember reading someone suggesting using that on another thread.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you could add Eucalyptus Ess Oil to the coconut cream..I also tried Lavender Ess Oil in it...


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Ugggghhhhh.... this isn't getting better. How long can we be congested before it screws up her milk production for this year? Or becomes a problem and needs veterinary attention? I am not sure if the kids are getting enough but their tummys feel pretty full, they still seem happy. 

It went from being able to get some milk out to larger, lumpier and getting maybe 6 squirts from each udder. This morning I thought we'd gotten somewhere when a cup or so broke loose but it was worse again this afternoon and larger yet with still nothing really happening this evening. I massage 4 times a day for about a half hour using peppermint oil or eucalyptus or vicks vapor rub or a salve and some oils for circulation etc... poor doe.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Poor baby....you should test her for mastitis just to rule it out...are you getting milk or lumps? if lumps what do they look like?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I am getting milk, but the udder itself is hard and lumpy. The milk that manages to squeeze out is fine.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we need to test for mastitis on that one side...I heard you can use blue dawn if you don't have a California Mastitis Test.... Ill look that up for you...continue to message and try to get that side milked out...I bet she is miserable...ill get back with you on the dawn dish soap idea : )


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a link for using dish soap : )

http://askthehomesteaders.blogspot.com/2011/09/using-dish-soap-to-detect-mastitis.html


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks 

I did do a "home" test for mastitis yesterday. Tested each side. I put 1/2 cup of warm water & a couple drops of dawn in the cup, added 1/2 cup of milk and mixed. Neither side felt thick, slimy or anything different that I expected.

I am just about to head out and massage her/milk her again so I'll try mixing just milk & dawn like this link you posted and test her again.

Can anyone tell me if these work well? Because that is what I ordered, not here yet.

http://www.jefferspet.com/mastitis-indicators/camid/liv/cp/D1-M2/

This is the doe that we have been watching for CL (her sister had an abscess that burst in their stall) I keep seeing CAE can cause this, what about CL? She is just now 45 days from her last negative test, so we are going to send another test in this week.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes, you can use those for suspected mastitis. Have you taken her temp? I would start there. Is it hard to get the milk out? Any blood or "stuff" in the milk? If the kids look good they probably are...but...I would offer them a bottle and see if they are interested.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

CAE can but CL wont cause congested udder..She must have a very stubborn udder...lol..if she is negative for mastitis then keep focusing on it being congested and work hard At it...Has she need tested for CAE?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

OK So I tried the second soap test, I thought for a second the really congested side was getting slimy but I think it was just whatever was on my finger, re-tried it a few times and nothing every came up slimy, thick, didn't stay on my finger any more than milk normally would.

Took her temp. Both yesterday and today it was 102*

This is the udder when I start milking - 









This is the udder anywhere from 10 squirts to a couple cups later -









Her teats just deflate and no more milk passes through. No matter how much I try, I'll usually massage for 20 minutes beyond this point and nothing happens.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Also - She was tested for CAE 60 days ago. Since then the only goats we have brought on the farm have been CAE neg and they have been kept VERY separate from her because we still haven't gotten the second neg on CL from this doe. So she should be CAE free and not needing testing.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok.no CAE ( thats great ) No Mastitis ( that good ) but wow that udder looks odd...very lumpy...so my next question is ...is she a FF? If not I would contact previous owner to get some history...looks to me she might have had Mastitis before or some kind of infection and now has scar tissue...but if she is a FF that would not fit unless she got hit real hard in the udder area causing scar tissue..??


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Isn't it the craziest thing?! Like I just said in another post "I swear, if it can happen to goats it happens here. I really am not having goat luck with goats." Its been one thing after another. I haven't even had goats for 9 months yet! Lice, respiratory infection, bloat, leg injury, CL with the amazing never healing abscess near the birth route for kids leaving us to opt to shooting and c-sectioning our doe but not after the abscess ruptured in the barn, the barn that is now flooded and the water from the infected stall is traveling everywhere... Annabelle had a normal delivery but had one kid that just wouldn't stay awake for three days, one day just woke up and has been good ever since. Blood in the milk, a buckling that is constantly bloating, now this. I'm sure I left out a few things. I honestly would have been lost if I hadn't found this forum. Although I don't know how much longer I'll be keeping goats, this is all getting very old. Now that I have 8 goats and $500 worth of veterinary supplies since apparently, all these things do is try to die...  

Anyways, I bought Annabelle last June, in milk. She had just weaned her first kids when we bought her. She is three years old, second freshening. Her kids are just shy of 4 weeks old now. Everything was normal for the first 2.5 weeks. I started to milk her out to help since she was making so much milk, noticed that you couldn't milk her "all the way" out but I was leaving a little for the babies and I kind of thought that she was doing the same. Up until last week when her udder rapidly started to become this. I did some online research and started treating it as a congested udder, because, why WOULDNT she up and have a congested udder, she lives here, its a given  but when it didn't help I made this post to see if I was doing something wrong and get some more opinions, now here we are! 

So she hasn't been injured unless she some how did this herself in the stall with her kids between weeks 2 & 3 of their existence. Her udder was beautiful last year. No scar tissue or anything goofy like this. She was smooth, super easy to milk out, milked all the way out, dried off easy, everything has been un-eventful. This just popped up. 

I thought lumpy was normal for congested udders? I thought that was what I was trying to massage out? Its as hard as a rock and feels very lumpy, the pictures hardly do it justice. Thanks for your thoughts.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You have had it hard.....Kudos for hanging in there...
in my experience, congested udders are smooth but very hard.. I have not had a lumpy congested udder like the pix ...My Lilly had such a congested udder it felt like some one pour concrete in them! But it looked smooth...other than veins...took a good week to work them out and we still have to keep up with them...

Ok so she freshened last season beautifully...so what changed? Diet? Minerals? what other signs? fading color in coat, fish tail, illnesses? Im reaching here lol..I would also go ahead and get an actual CMT and re test her...just to be perfectly sure : ) Im going to read some stuff...its now a puzzle I must see through : )


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I will order the CMT tonight. Would mastitis make a lumpy looking udder? Her milk doesn't have any blood or lumps. Should I treat her with antibiodics anyhow? It feels like really inflamed tissue, if I had to guess. Antiinflammatory? Banamine? Baby aspirin? Try to reduce swelling? Feed did change from a mix I had made at the mill to kalmbachs 18% textured. She gets free choice hay, free choice or up to 2 quarts alfalfa cubes, 1.5 quarts feed (kalmbachs) per milking, so 3 quarts a day. No mineral change. The only change is her entirely different stall/quarantine until we get this cl test.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Banamine might help..,I would try...but only a few days..
I'm not sure if Mastitis would create a lumpy udder...
the inner udder to me is like rows of seaweed lol...those seed weed plant get inflamed and trap milk, congestion..some messaging and milking and repeating with good balm should help relieve the milk...the lumpiness maybe just her udder..the way it inflamed and nothing more..maybe the warm compresses, messages and banamine you can get her some relief...
I cant see the changes in her food being a problem, causing this.... Ill keep reading lol


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I have banamine inject that we give to the horses as oral and paste, does it matter which one? Is a 100# dose good for a 100# goat or do you have to double it, circle a fire, stand on your head and do a little dance like you do with horse de-wormer to a goat? LOL


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..I use banamine injectable (FluMeglumine) 1 cc per 100#

I would assume the one for horses is the same..?? is it FluMeglumine?

I dont beleive the dance is necessary..but if it makes you feel better...do it LOL


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes, thats the same with horses. Wow, something simple I can remember! 

Got her some banamine, we'll see if that works. This evening I wasn't able to get more than a squirt from the worst side, the other side looked like it had a few pulls but I left it for the kids, who took care of that.

I'm kind of wondering if antibiotics wouldn't be a bad idea just incase? What is the treatment for mastitis?

Plus, this evening she has decided to look bloated. I have no idea if its related to what is going on, but she is definitely huge. Offered her some baking soda, she opted for alfalfa pellets. Shes acting fine but looks HUGE.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

My goats are a bit bloated too...we have a lot of fresh green growing..if she needs the baking soda and wont eat it free choice..put 1/4 teaspoon in enough water to drench her..as long as she is not acting in distress I would keep an eye on it
Mastitis takes an infused antibiotic called Today...its not injected but inserted into the teat..I would make sure she needs it first...as for injectable antibiotics..unless she has fever I would wait...since she doesnt act sick..


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

OK thanks! 

Put an order in for Today, to have on hand. Mastitis indicators should be here Wednesday.

I'll just keep massaging my goat I guess, maybe the banamine will help us. Read that a Comfrey/Milk thistle tea could help reduce inflammation too. I'll try that tomorrow.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds promising..but how will get her to drink it ( hehe) Sounds like you got it together...I sure hope the banamine helps...she is one tough case


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Poor little goat. The banamine didn't make a difference one way or another.

Mastitis indicators came in the mail & they also did not show mastitis. Her temp is staying normal but she is starting to act like she doesn't feel well. She eats great but shes quiet, lays down a lot, looks painful.

I can typically get 1 quart AM, not much mid day, 1/2 quart PM from her but her udder is still huge, and growing, with little relief for her.

Have you ever heard of it taking so long to become un-congested? Or would you suspect something else?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

poor baby...Im sorry she is still not doing great. Have you tried a round of antibiotics? Nuflor once a day for 5-7 days ..see how it helps....Congested udder should have been cleared up by now..you have worked very hard on them...otherwise, since she is beginning to suffer from this, even a little, I might dry her up for her own health...and go from there...


The only reasons for hard udder I can think of is
congestion
CAE
injury
Mastisis..

I sure wish I could be more helpful


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I have Tylan 200 and Penicillin. 

I'm not sure how to go about drying her off. Her kids are 4.5 weeks old, for one. But the super congested side seems to be drying off. Her whole udder looks HUGE though, so I can't tell. I'm not sure how to dry her off, since I'm not exactly milking her out as it is, because I can't. More like taking the little bit that will come out which takes the pressure off for her. The picture above was taken after I got what I could out of her. So I'm not even sure how to dry her off. I'm just at a loss.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand...its very frustrating.... I dont think tylan 200 or pen will help with this...could you ask a vet for Nuflor? cant remember your vet situation : ) 

if you decide to dry her off...begin by cutting her grain..and milking her once a day...when her production slows some...go every other day...and so forth until when you go out to milk her her bag is baggy...then stop..she will dry up from there..
for her babies...I would save the milk and begin to change the kids over to whole cows milk if you dont have other goats in mik..


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I can check with a vet for Nuflor. 

We do have another goat producing milk but the bucklings don't seem at all interested in bottle feeding. And I have no where to separate them because none of them are guaranteed CL free so I cannot move her in with my does or the bucklings in with the other bottle babies and I have goats in 4 different pens right now, no more open space until a test from her comes back neg. So I guess I'll hope the Nuflor is the key and maybe that will help her? I wonder if it isn't a congested udder, maybe she injured herself somehow (not sure how as she is in a stall, separated from everyone but her kids) Its just crazy. 

She has also gotten more bloated. Baking soda and bloat release hasn't helped. She doesn't have access to any new feed or grazing, since she is quarantined in the stall. Again, crazy. Only me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if she doesnt have much space to exercise..then she will bloat...You truly are between a rock and hard place...try the nuflor..its expensive ( cost me $98 a bottle)...but it worked with Paige...her one side did dry up and is not infected but the doe nursed freely from he good side...maybe this will happen here so you dont have to worry about bottle feeding..lets hope the nuflor clears this up..even if that side drys up..she can still nurse her kids..


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

we have a doe who has the same thing with the udder. You milk out a bunch but she looks like she still has more but her teats inflate. We are suspecting scar tissue becasue earlier this year her teats got over engorged and after a month or so of meds shes still the same but milks very well for one side being excellent and the other side alot tinier. She can produce about 3 pints from the big side. It was a really odd because her teats were crusty (witch i know your doe doesnt have) but she will be retired this year sadly as a 2 yr old and live out her days in the pasture with the other girlys!


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