# Help needed from uk goat keepers



## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Please don't be offended all you US goat keepers. You have been fantastically helpful with tips and advice when I have had problems with my boys, especially recently when I had one go down with UC.

The trouble is, most of the advice concerns products and meds that just aren't available here in the UK. I am amazed when you guys reel off the list of drugs to give poorly goats as lots of you clearly have these readily available but here you can only get those things with a vet appointment which involves the vet physically seeing the goat and then prescribing said drug....except finding a vet that actually knows anything about them is nigh on impossible in the first place!

You cannot get drugs here at any kind of 'animal store' other than those intended for treating parasites and even then, they are sold in 'herd size' quantities for cattle or sheep.....not much help when you have just two goats!

Even the foods available are extremely limited and loose minerals just don't exist!

My problem is this....I have two pygmy cross wethers. One of them, Teddy, recently had a very nasty case of UC but I managed to pull him through with a HUGE amount of hands-on dedication and an £800 vet bill! The vet has now said not to feed them any grain at all, only hay and whatever browse they can get. The browse is virtually non-existent at the moment as it is winter and all the trees are bare....leaving the boys on nothing but hay, in theory.

Now, I have bought some Manna Pro goat balancer but at great expense and imported from the US as we can't get it here. It takes two weeks to arrive by post and isn't always in stock. I feed the boys 1oz of this per day. It is meant as a top dressing but as they now don't eat grain, it is just given mixed with a few ounces of BOSS.

So full diet is....unlimited hay, 1 oz Goat Balancer, 3 to 4 oz BOSS per day.

Mineral wise...they have a Red Rockies mineral lick which they do occasionally use, but not much, and a salt lick. 

The only other minerals I can find are 'Caprivite' which the US users told me previously wasn't much good and besides which, the boys tend to eat round it and leave it in the bowl. When they ate grain, I could add a wee drop of water so it stuck to the grain and then they would eat it but now there is no grain and the Manna Pro turns to mush if you add water...then the boys won't touch it.

I have tried to find somewhere to test the hay to see if it is meeting the Calcium/Phosphorus ratio but to little avail....most will only deal commercially.

I am now worried because the boys have started their spring moult....a time when they always get very flaky skin and look scruffy and unkempt BUT Teddy, the one who had UC, has got huge patches where he is almost bald. He seems to be shedding not only his fluffy undercoat but his long topcoat too. I have never seen him so bad. Tumnus, his brother, has also got some very thin patches and I am worried that this excessive moult is due to nutritional deficiences now that they have such a limited diet. 

If there are any UK users out there that have any suggestions, I'd be very grateful and if the US users have any advice on naturally available supplements rather than products, I would also be very grateful.

Oh and apologies for the hugely long-winded thread!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

It is amazing how much difference there is in products between countries. Let's get real here. It is not really economical for you to buy products from the states and ship it. The cost alone is going to make owning your goats astronomical. Can you get alfalfa pellets there or even alfalfa hay? Grass hays are low in calcium and legumes are extremely high. A mix of the 2 should help maintain the balance. Can you get calcium supplements? this website says they are an international supplier...I know nothing about them tho. http://www.nicosiainternational.com/ We feed mainly grass hay to ALL our animals. This is the first year I've had access to reasonably priced alfalfa (actually got it in a trade) We don't test our hay either, just feed it. Now, added on to that...I don't keep wethers. But my dairy goats don't get any added calcium either...and we've done fine with just adding alfalfa pellets to their grain mix.

Can you get the Ammonium Chloride there? I know you can get apple cider vinegar, so be sure to add that to water and I wouldn't worry about organic, "mothers', etc...just get what you and afford and find... ACV will help.

What grains or feeds can you get? I know there is a big horse community over there. Find a horse feed that you can feed a small amount of to your goats. Horse feed works. Whatever you get told by people here that isn't good for minerals...if that's all you can get...it's better than nothing. Seriously. Find a grain based horse feed (read labels and see what the ratios are) and mix the BOSS into it with a little water or molasses to bind the mineral and feed it...a half cup of grain isn't going to make that big a difference. Leave the mineral and salt lick out for them. I have read to add a little salt to their feed to encourage water intake which will help with the UC.

Look into horse supplements over that are available over there. Much of what we use here in the States is "off label" anyway. Good luck. Remember, whatever is recommended is just that....a recommendation. If it's not available to you or not doable, then try not to sweat it. If you have to stress this much over what to do or not to do, it makes owning your little guys not so much fun and they should be fun.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh, forgot the skin issues. Do they have mites or lice? That will cause a lot of the hair and skin issues you are seeing. Treat with Sevin dust...I believe. You should be able to find that at your garden store or even for dogs. If it is just dry skin add some more oil to their feed....any kind will work. Again, with the huge horse community there, you should be able to find some oil supplements for horses that would work or just plain old cooking oil added will work too.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you so much for your response hon, it is truly appreciated HOWEVER, the things you mention in reference to diet are the very things I've been told by the *vet* not to do....I've been told to keep off ALL grains and definitely NO alfalfa. This was passed on to my vet by the ex president of the British Goat Society apparently.

I understand that a 'half cup of grain won't make that much difference' but that is apparently what caused the issue....and it was a grain specifically for goats!

I can get ammonium chloride here but only in a chemical powder form which would mean the torture of daily drenching as I cannot find any other way to get it into them as it tastes absolutely hideous! When Teddy was really poorly, I was drenching him with it daily but this involves pinning him in a corner and force-feeding him. Then he is clearly in a lot of discomfort from the burning in his throat. I cannot see that as a long term solution, that is why I went for the Manna Pro Goat Balancer as it has the AC mixed in in a palatable form. I have not been able to find ANY equivalent in the UK.

ACV is readily available so I can add that to water....what is the dosage?

I will look into horse minerals though....as you said, there is a huge horse community here so maybe I can find something suitable. Apart from the calcium/phosphorus ratio of at least 2:1....is there anything else I should be looking for or ensuring is NOT in there? Is there anything in horse supps that is likely to harm the goats or overdose them with any particular thing?

This is why I am so afraid of giving them things not designed for them. Kind of like the sheep thing....you can kill them with copper....I am afraid of doing the same to the boys by giving them too much of something.

I don't *think* the skin issues are parasitic. I have had a good look and can see no signs of eggs, lice or anything living. I don't have 'Sevin' but we have louse powders for livestock so I could try that....if I can get it past the remaining undercoat!

I also have both boys in dog flea/tick/lice collars permanently so I'm hoping that would prevent any crawlers anyway??

I assumed the BOSS would deal with the oil issue for their coats but am happy to give something else too if needed....again, I'll look in the horsey section.

Thanks again for your help Kccjer and yes, it may seem that my goat keeping is getting to be less fun but ultimately, I love my babies to bits and may well be making more of this than necessary. I'm hoping that they'll get through an excessive moult, grow a new shiny coat and I'll be wondering what the fuss was about but....there's no harm in trying to see them through with a little help from me and you guys, eh? :thankU:

By the way....if there are any UK keepers out there, it would still be great to hear from you with any products/feeds/supplements that you have found work well x


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

I have looked online and I can get Virbamec Pour-On for cattle which has 0.5% ivermectin....is this ok for the boys? Is that strength/concentration suitable?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would suspect Mites as well..you cannot see mites..but htey leave dry ichy bald patches, could have scabbie areas...Not sure whats available there for mites, I use Ivomec injectable treat 3 times one week apart 1 cc per 40# here is an artlicle that has other sugggestions

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/mites.html

for skin issues I use ground flax seed, wheat germ in a bit of coconut oil to make a paste..my goats eat it off the spoon, also Wheat germ oil is wonderful for dry skin issues
Brushing like a madman helps too lol..brng up those natural oils

ACV is great to help with UC....start slow...add just a bit at first until they decide they like the flavor, alwasy supply fresh water as well incase they refuse the ACV water. 
I will have to disagree with your vet on one point...Alfalfa is not bad for the wethers..a small amount daily can up the calcium and help balance things...grass/alfalfa mix is great or add a 1/4 flake of alfalfa to their hay ....grain is not needed ...
so plenty of fliud, grass hay and a bt of alfalfa is a good diet for wethers..


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I wouldn't be trying to give that ammonium chloride either! What a nightmare! Ok...if the vet said NO alfalfa and NO grains, then go with it. I'm just trying to remember what has been said on here in regards to it. I wouldn't worry about getting your hay tested then. Just feed and keep an eye on them for condition. Mine actually do pretty well on hay only and I know a lot on here that only feed hay too. 

Keep in mind that a lot of pelleted feed is actually made from grain so you're still feeding grain by giving it. I can't think of any horse feed that you can't feed to goats. We interchange regularly. You might even be able to find loose minerals for horses that you can use. There shouldn't be anything in it that would harm your goats. You can also use horse wormer to worm them. Yes, the cattle stuff is ok and would help if it's a mite issue too. Hmmm... I thought I saw Sevin when I was over there? But the pour on will be easier to get past the undercoat and work just as well.

The ACV...I just pour some in the water. LOL I'm guessing...I do about a cup in 20 gallons? You might be able to get by with a little more than that because you're doing it for prevention of UC. As long as they'll drink the water, pour it in. That might help with the skin issue too! One of the things they say for prevention is making sure the urine is acidic so anything that would help with that is what you want. I wonder about cranberry juice? They would like that!

I wonder if to help with the calcium ratio you could feed veggies that are high in calcium? Spinach, broccoli, kelp, celery etc. Mine all like those as treats.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you for your help.

I think I must have posted about the cattle pour-on while you were writing your response....so do you think the one mentioned above is OK? My local store does not stock the injectable kind but this pour on is the same active ingredient....ivermectin.

As for alfalfa....I can get alfalfa pellets in 20kg boxes....how much would you normally give wethers (pygmy x nigerian) each day?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep, the cattle pour on is ok. I would guess a half cup per goat for the alfalfa pellets? That way they are getting some but not a whole lot and hopefully won't give your vet a heart attack when he finds out you're using it. LOL


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Lol! Yes....that's the trouble when you're 'under the vet'....they expect you to only do as they say!

Although, in fairness, when Teddy went down with UC, it was mainly the information that I found on here that I passed on to the vet that we then used to save his life. She didn't really have a clue....but then she consulted with this other chap from the Goat Society and with a US vet that he knew and they all came up with the no grain and /or alfalfa advice.

There are just so few pet goat owners here....I'm the only one I know of in this area, that's for sure. I don't know what the commercial goat dairy or meat farmers do when it comes to taking care of their herds....I assume they use all 'off label' stuff and must mass produce their own grains/foods.

I will go buy some alfalfa pellets tomorrow and see how we go. I am taking regular PH tests of their urine to keep an eye on PH and as long as that remains stable, we shouldn't get a re-occurence of the UC.

Can't thank you enough for the help x :hugs:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I too agree about the alfalfa pellets. I give my 2 wethers grain an alfalfa pellets and hay, especially this time of year. They don't get much grain, but they do get some. I have heard of others that have had problems, but I've just been very fortunate not to have any issues. They do need something until the browse is readily available to them. I would start with a half a cup twice a day then a cup twice a day. That's what I did with mine. Good luck over there, best wishes;-)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree, use the pour on..DO Be sure to use the pour on AS a pour on..not oral..: )


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks everyone....and duly noted Happybleats, I shall make sure it is poured on! I assume it goes along the spine, neck to tail?

Could anyone advise me on the dose for the pour-on....as mentioned it is at a strength of 0.5 w/w ivermectin. Teddy weighs around 75lb and Tumnus around 65lb.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a quote from the virbamec web page



> Dosage: 1ml per 10 kg bodyweight (based on a recommended dose rate of 500mcg per kg bodyweight).
> 
> Administration: The formulation should be applied along the mid-line of the back in a narrow strip between the withers and tailhead.


http://www.virbac.co.uk/virbamec/datasheets/virbamecpour.htm


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So glad you are finding some ideas here for your beloved wethers  This is a great spot! Sorry you can't get the products you need so easily  I would do some research on herbs and such and maybe try that route instead for mineral deficiencies..


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

HappyHogs, I appreciate your difficulties, not living in the US either, and not in an agricultural area here...but at least I know what I can get my hands on...whereas I can only guess what might be available to you, as although I have visited the UK three times, it was never as a goat owner!

I apologize for not reading through everyone's responses before responding myself, but I offer the following make-do's: 
-copper sulphate from the garden store (pretty blue crystals): one PINCH once a month: as they are pygmies, make that a pinch between your thumb and little finger, either in their mouth directly (watch your fingers, ouch!) or in a little molasses/treacle/honey to distract them from the taste. I do this with my Nigerian Dwarf goats, and they're still alive and apparently well. 
-I use dairy mineral mix (though I don't expect wethers will produce much milk, lol) and that covers a lot of the mineral requirements. It's a 10kg sack, which looks like a lot, but they will eventually get through it and it was not a big investment. 
-Diatomaceous earth from the garden center is good for dusting their quarters to help prevent crawlies. 
-I use a generic dusting powder when prevention has failed; I get it from the feed and garden store, where I believe it is sold primarily to horse owners. 
-ACV you're aware of, I'm sorry I don't know the dosage, but I'm guessing that you put enough in the water that you can sort of taste it without finding the water hideous to drink. I haven't experimented much, because I don't have wethers, but I do add it to my buck's water from time to time. Please take others' advice on that one! 
-You can bring your goats pine branches if you can get hold of them, or other evergreens...a little online search will give you a long list of good browse...watch out for chemicals or car exhaust on what you give them, though. (I recall that you live in a city, but don't know how far you are from hedgerows and woods that might be discreetly snipped?) Also vegetable trimmings from the kitchen can be offered; check the treats list first. We have snow up past my knees here and not much browse, but the goats like nibbling the bark off the tree trunk fence posts, and would nibble the bark off living trees. They like evergreen needles, from both living and dead trees. They also vacuum up dead leaves from under the shelter of trees, and wild rose stems where they poke out of the snow by the path...dried up yarrow sticking out of the snow...amazing what they'll be content with!

Whenever I get frustrated about all the wonder-products I can't get hold of, I remind myself that goats evolved to look after themselves, without a farm store to shop at if anything ailed them! And I try to find a natural source of what they need, and see if I can find something appropriate growing around the property, or next best, make do with something from the kitchen. Although my vet is sympathetic, it is a three-hour drive to get there (and another three hours back, of course!) and that is a lot of fuel $$$ on top of the time and the vet bill.

Are there any goat clubs in the UK? Any commercial goat raisers that you could contact, and ask nicely for some health tips? And if you find a friendly commercial dairy contact, maybe ask them _really_ nicely if you can purchase a small quantity of what you need from them, rather than having to buy a herd quantity yourself? How about the person you got the goats from, I'm guessing they're in the UK...what do they do for treatments when they're needed? The breeders that I got my goats from are wonderfully supportive and want their goats to do well...they are fountains of advice born of experience, which they are very willing to share. Your breeder too?

I haven't visited the site lately, but I seem to recall that Fiasco Farms has an organic bent, and favours natural products...I'm guessing that worst case, you could get similar ingredients at health food stores near you. (Sorry for waffling, I should really do my homework first, but I've got to go to work very shortly!)


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks for all those tips Goats-in-Himmel :smile:

I can get the copper sulphate, no problem, so can give that a go.

I will have a look into dairy minerals....I assume you mean those aimed at cattle....and get back with some details.

I already use DE in their house/bedding and as I mentioned, I am not convinced that parasites are the problem but I want to cover all the bases so will treat chemically to make sure.

As for browse, I live in a very rural area, not a city. but we have mostly deciduous trees. I take the boys for a walk daily and they do eat dried leaves from the ground, some grass, ivy, a few bramble leaves....which is just about all that is available at the moment. It won't be long before the leaves arrive, Spring is on its way and then the whole area will burst into verdant life but I am concerned that they are lacking in something right now. I absolutely get your point that goats evolved to survive without the local country store....my vet has said the same...."These goats naturally come from areas far poorer in nutrition than here, with not much but very dry, poor quality grasses to feed on so a good hay will be fine on its own" HOWEVER I have two goats who are losing vast quantities of hair along with their undercoat and one of those goats nearly died just a few weeks ago from serious UC issues so I am naturally a little over-protective right now (and don't worry, I know you were not criticising in any way )

I have tried to contact a couple of goat farms.....one dairy, one meat but got no response at all as yet. 

I can't contact the 'breeder' where I got my boys. I bought them as 'excess stock' from a small 'petting zoo' type place....a small set up where you take young children to see and touch farm animals. They incorrectly ear tagged the boys when I picked them up, told me I would probably never need to worry about hoof trimming but could use a wood plane if necessary, told me to feed them on 75% concentrate 10% browse and 10% hay (yes, do the math!!!) and finally suggested I transport them by putting a leash on them and tying them to the back seat of my car! They are not people I would trust for good advice! Lol!

Thankfully I have this wonderful website and all you guys for sensible advice, I just need to pick out the things I can actually use and try and find an alternative for those that I can't.

Thank you so much for your help x


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

happybleats said:


> here is a quote from the virbamec web page
> 
> http://www.virbac.co.uk/virbamec/datasheets/virbamecpour.htm


Thanks for this Happybleats but is this an OK dose for goats as this is the information intended for cattle? x


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

From what I read..theVirbamec 0.05% is the same medication as Ivomec pour on and suggested rate is 1 cc per 22#...Ivomec has a large safety majin so over dosing would be hard...



> Brand Name:	Ivomec, Double Impact, Top-line, Phoenectin Pour-on
> Active Ingredient(s):	ivermectin 1% (injectable)* ivermectin 0.5% (pour-on)*
> Availability:	OTC
> Withdrawal:	35 days before slaughter
> ...


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Fab! Thank you soooo much. I know I keep saying thank you but I really don't know what I'd do without this fabulous forum and the wonderful people on it! xx


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm in Barbados, so I believe you when you say you have a hard time finding stuff. I mean, I can't even find vit B injectable here!

with copper, I've seen copper boluses for cattle available for sale in the UK, so you just have to break them down to suit the size you need
http://www.agrimin.co.uk/ - I'm sure there's more, but this is what I found with a quick google search. some people are really wary of giving copper sulfate as it can be lethal if drenched in the lungs. I have found two ways around that - sprinkle some into their minerals so they get some when they have their minerals or make goat cookies and sprinkle into the cookie. if you're boys are copper deficient, then they'll need more frequent doses of copper than once a month (I bolus my goats and give them a pinch 3-4 times a week, and my black goat still doesn't get overly black)

my wether doesn't get any grain. he gets free browse, and 2 handfuls of alfalfa pellets at night when the girls get their food (so he doesn't feel left out). ACV in their water is also a great UC preventative. if you can find the unfiltered stuff with the mother, that would be best. just do a "plop" in a bucket of water.

as for minerals, the only thing I can find is all-purpose loose mineral. there are sheep ones too. loose would be best, if you can find it. 
oh, some more google searches:
http://www.dairy-direct.co.uk/?page_id=227
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=20524.0
http://www.gardnersltd.co.uk/minerals.htm

the dry skin could be from them not getting enough oils from the BOSS. I had my girls on BOSS, but switched out. now, I put 1/2 tsp of coconut oil in their food. safflower oil can also work. no more flakey! I forgot to add the oils in their food for 2 days, and my black doe got flakey again, but went away after giving once.

I would highly recommend going for a look at some horse supplies near your area. it may surprise you on what you can find.

hope that helps some. I know how hard it is trying to keep healthy, happy goats when you don't have access to quite as many goodies as people do in the US.

OH! another resource to maybe check is goat clubs? I know there's a British Alpine one. maybe they can help you find some things you need?


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you for your input nchen7.

I hate to sound like I'm shooting you down in flames when you have gone out of your way to help but none of the minerals you linked to are viable...I've already checked out all three and sadly hit a brick wall. Dairy Direct and Gardners only do the minerals in commercial quantities and the product spoken about on the Accidental Smallholder (where I am a member, though only occasional visitor) didn't seem to really get off the ground. I have searched in vain for an outlet for the Goat mineral they are talking of and it doesn't seem to be available anywhere, not even their own website so I assume there was not enough interest for it to succeed as a product.

I have, however, ordered some coconut oil from Ebay....you mentioned it and so did several other posters so I'm going to give that a go for their skin/hair issues.

I have had another really good look at them today and the skin is scurfy in places but not as excessively so as it has been in previous years and there is no sign at all of any scabbing or irritation so hopefully this is just a really heavy moult brought on by our totally mad weather recently. The Temps have varied from 0 to 16 degrees celsius and we have had more rain than ever recorded.....half the country is in severe flood....and we've had gale force winds to boot!! 

There is a very fine growth of hair on the 'bald' patches and the hair that hasn't yet fallen out is lovely and shiny but you can just pull it away in clumps! Teddy's fur has paled in colour....he is usually a dark chocolate brown and is more 'milk chocolate' at the moment and Tumnus is usually a very, very dark brown, not quite black, but has paled slightly round his head. With any luck, the coconut oil and some copper sulphate will help. Unfortunately the bolus isn't an option either because they are only licensed for cattle so if you buy them online they check your CPH and herd numbers to ensure you have the cattle....which I don't!....and I can get it over the counter at the local country store if I lie and tell them it's for cattle (they don't check) but they only do it in packs of 24 for £65!

If I can provide the same by getting copper sulphate from a garden centre, I am better off taking that route me thinks....and I like the idea of goat cookies to tempt them into eating it!

I have already started adding ACV to their water as I use it for my chickens so had it 'in stock' so.....

again, many thanks indeed and I will keep everyone informed as to how the boys fare with all your amazing advice and tips! xx


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

The book " natural goat care " by pat cloby is great and has a lot of good info on thing readily available including a mineral mix


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Do you have garden lime over there? If so, check and see what else is in it besides calcium. The stuff I get is di-calcium phosphate, which means it is a 2 to 1 calcium/phos ratio that can be used to help balance the high phos % of phosphorus. Cereal grains and almost all grass hays are high in phos and low in calcium. I top dress the lime on their feed or mix it in with their minerals. So far it is working great.

Also, can you get beet pulp over there? That is a source of calcium with almost no phos.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

I will be going to the garden centre tomorrow to check out the copper sulphate so can check for lime at the same time. A question though....I thought lime caused chemical burns? Or are there different types?

I will also check the country store for beet pulp....no idea if they stock it....but thank you for the tips x


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

there's two types of lime, one causes burns, the other is made from calcium. this is the one you want - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_lime

look for calcium carbonate as the ingredient.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

I found some limestone for horses at the garden centre (go figure!) and some copper sulphate so I can start on those.

I have the Virbamec, ACV, something called Codlivit which is an oil based vitamin/mineral supplement for livestock with added copper, coconut oil, Alfalfa pellets, more BOSS and a goat coat all on their way through mail order.

I hope they are all here soon as my darling Teddy is almost completely bald on his back, neck and sides now, has sparse hair over his poll and thinning hair across his face. His chest and legs seem relatively unaffected....they still have full thick hair on! He has also lost his scur which has been there since I got him four years ago and was just getting to the point where it might need sorting. It's fabulous that it has come off as it saves me the trouble of removing it BUT is this just another sign of poor condition?

Tumnus has got some bald patches too so whatever is causing this is affecting both of them but Tumnus has a few small bald patches in his otherwise full, thick fur whereas poor Teddy looks like an RSPCA case!

I have ordered him a goat coat as I am very worried about him getting cold. It is currently about 10 degrees celsius which is chilly enough if you have no fur but we will definitely get some much colder spells before Spring is out and very likely some snow too.

There does seem to be a very fine covering of hair over the bald patches but not much more than 'baby fuzz'. The skin underneath is flaky in places and in other places has what looks a little like 'cradle cap' (in human babies) but I can see no bumps, bites or scabs...it is smooth and very soft......feels like the velvet on a horse's muzzle.

OMG, I have lost so much sleep over these boys of mine. I just need them to be well and happy! x


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

happyhogs said:


> There does seem to be a very fine covering of hair over the bald patches but not much more than 'baby fuzz'. The skin underneath is flaky in places and in other places has what looks a little like 'cradle cap' (in human babies) but I can see no bumps, bites or scabs...it is smooth and very soft......feels like the velvet on a horse's muzzle.
> 
> OMG, I have lost so much sleep over these boys of mine. I just need them to be well and happy! x


Sounds like you are well on your way to finally managing to get what you need! Even if you did have to improvise some. We have seen what you are describing on horses here. It is weird. Doesn't appear to be anything major, but it does make them kinda hairless and awful looking for a while. One thing we found that seemed to work for the horses was Tea Tree Shampoo...we got the kind for horses. No clue if you can find something like over there...dog shampoo maybe?


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## IvyMayPygmyGoats (Jan 24, 2014)

Yay! Another UK user! I'm hoping i've followed you right, and you're worried that you're lad is getting bad skin/coat because of a lack of this and that? If so, my girlie Faith had this, especially around her back end, we took her to the vets, but they didn't bother doing anything and she did eventually grow it back. It never bothered her but it did look rather odd..!


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

kccjer....I can get tea tree shampoo for horses and for dogs but would be very wary of bathing the boys at the moment in case they got a chill HOWEVER I can also get tea tree conditioning spray for dogs which is a {quote}'leave in' conditioner which 'soothes and relieves' and is 'ideal for dull, dry hair'. This might be a better option but is tea tree definitely safe on goats? I know it's fab for all sorts of creatures but it can be a killer for others....my African pygmy Hedgehogs for example would die if I applied this stuff!

IvyMayPygmyGoats....yes, you have followed me right but I am not just worried about the hair issue but an overall, long term health issue as I have been told by a vet to stop all grain/concentrate and feed only hay, browse and BOSS so I am concerned that this thing with their hair is due to nutritional deficiences and will have even worse consequences on a long term basis if not dealt with now.

As a UK goat owner, can I ask what diet you feed your goats and what supplements you use? Are you a breeder or multiple goat owner and if so, what health issues have you had and how did you cure them? Have you found a reliable source of loose minerals and if not, what do you use instead? Sorry for all the questions but soooo need help before I go completely bonkers!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Had to do a quick google search. LOL Yes, tea tree oil is OK for goats to use.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

HH --

Hi there! I'm a bit behind in this thread, but my two cents! Are you on facebook? There are several UK goat people with whom I'm friends that I am sure would be happy to help you.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

here's my facebook

https://www.facebook.com/denise.a.fraser


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you so much but no, I'm not on Facebook.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If its too cold to bathe them you can mix a bit of peppermint ess oil in a carrier oil, olive, sweet almond..what ever you have on hand...rub on your hand and work through to the skin of the goat..trying to get the skin not much of the hair...
be sure to always check a small spot first..goats tend to do well with Ess. oils but there are some who can not do to allergies..
to test, dab a bit on the inner thigh where there is little to no hair...check often for reaction..if there are none, go a head and treat ...
also tea tree and neem, Rosemary, lavender, lemon and geranium essential oils can be used to repel pests..


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I came across a site of a person who actually makes their own supplement / mineral mix by combining everyday items. Ill see if I can find it again but just do some general searches on the internet for things that contain whatever vitamins and minerals you are wanting them to have. You may even find that you can get many of the minerals in their raw forms and just mix em.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks but my fear of self-mixing is getting it wrong and causing more harm than good. I'm already worrying if I'm going to be overdoing it....

I have limestone for calcium, alfalfa pellets on order for calcium and the Codlivit, I think, contains calcium.

I have copper sulphate for copper, their mineral lick contains copper and the Codlivit has added copper.

The Virbamec is an insecticide, they wear dog flea/tick/lice collars which have a different insecticide and the tea tree and other essential oils suggested are insecticidal.

The Codlivit is oil based, I have coconut oil on order and they eat BOSS every day which provides oil.

I am now concerned that any one of these things could be too much?????

If I mixed my own minerals, I wouldn't really have a clue where to start or how much of what was needed....the idea of killing them with well intended ignorance terrifies me!


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