# Goat Protectors



## Msmith345 (Oct 20, 2017)

We are new owners of 5 goats. We have a 10 acre fenced in pasture. Yesterday a dig attacked one of our goats . Thank the Lord it was only bruised because we were able to get the dog off of her.
Now we need to know the best choice of protection for our 5 precious pets. Dogs (what kind) or a donkey? Thank you in advance for any advice!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hotwire would help a lot. Any LGD breed would work.


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## Msmith345 (Oct 20, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Hotwire would help a lot. Any LGD breed would work.


What is LGD?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Livestock Guardian Dog


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So glad the goat is OK.

LGD's
Some popular breeds:
Anatolian
Akbash
Great pyrenees(A lot of hair)
Or mixture of these breeds.

You do not want a cross with other types of breeds who are not livestock breed types.

I agree with a hotline, top, middle and one low.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Should you got the LGD route, make sure they come from working parents. Papers are not necessary. They are not raised like your typical house dog so be prepared. You will need mentoring.
A shotgun does a great job when needed.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Thank you for pointing that out, @nancy d


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice there.


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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

I really want to get a donkey, but I have read that sometimes donkeys kill goats, so I don't want to risk it!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I go with hot fence and guns. I thought about a dog but I was a little unsure of how they would do with my working dogs that I do use on my cattle. About the time I was just going to try it a friend of my parents dog killed her husbands working cattle dog and then it seemed so many people had issues with their dog playing with kids to death or attacking one of their goats and they had a harmed goat on their hands. Looking into all options dog, llama, donkey it seemed none are 100% on never hurting anything unless it is coming from a home that the people are going out of the goat business. So after thinking it over I just passed on them all. Now I did have 2 dogs try to get into my goat pen and I had the hot fence on the inside fairly close to the ground and it nailed them and kept them from coming in and then I took care of the dogs. After that the hot fence also went on the outside of the fence as well


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

My LGD pups. I don't have any dogs other than LGDs, but my son, who lives on the property, owns a terrier. The LGDs love him. But we sure were hypervigilant for a long time to train them.

LGDs have the guardian instincts, but they still have all the predator instincts as well. New owners often don't think about that. Also, You can't get a Great Pyrenees that's been chained in the back yard and shove him in with prey animals. I feel so sorry for those dogs, and the goats they are supposed to protect.


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

I have an Anatolian Shepherd. I got really lucky with her though. The animal shelter had her, and the paperwork said she'd been raised with livestock, but that was all the info they had. She was 2 years old, but I went ahead an gave her a try. She's been the best guardian I could have asked for, my only difficulty has been keeping her in the pen lately though. She can hop the fence in one spot, but she just lays on the porch when she gets out. I'm working on fixing the pen this weekend, since it's bad enough that the goats can almost jump it as well.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I've had three Pyrs now and all have been great guardians. One thing I would say is, get a pair. My single dog had a bit of trouble learning not to chase goats. He was pretty bored by himself. But my current pair of dogs have never chased the goats.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> One thing I would say is, get a pair.


You are so right here, thanks for bringing this up. I do tell some people that a team works best, and I recommend 2 that will work well backing each other up. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they think I'm just trying to get more money out of them.

I only tell people that when I really think it is necessary. You've added another reason.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Unless you are willing and able to take on the uniqueness of an Anatolian/Kangal dog I would suggest the hot wire and very secure fencing method. Trust me, once a dog gets "bitten" by a strong hot wire zap, they won't try again. I had some dogs that were getting into my trash cans, it was plastic so I attached some insulators around the top rim, moved it over by the pasture fence, hooked it into the hot wire system, and waited. Sure enough, I heard a commotion, along with yipping. Next morning disconnected the trash can, put it back in it's place and the dogs never touched it again!

Yes Donkeys are great, I have 2, one for the boys and one for the girls, they do get "pushy" sometimes and I have a "safe" place for the goats to get to that the donkey can't when she starts in on them. She seems to have a problem when the goats scatter all over the pasture, she wants them close together, all the time. But I have heard horror stories about donkeys killing or maiming the animals they are supposed to protect, so it's 50/50 either way. I will say, that since we've had them we haven't seen a coyote or any other predator around.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

SundewFarms, got a question, looking at your photo you have sheep and goats together? How do you separate them at feeding time, since sheep feed isn't good for goats and vice versa?


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Those white wooly things ARE sheep, yes?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Madgoat said:


> ... since sheep feed isn't good for goats and vice versa?


Why can't goats and sheep have the same grain/browse/forage? Sheep and goats have been herded together for millennia.

The copper needs to be different, but not the feed?


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't know, but that's what I've been told over and over, that goats need xyz and sheep need mno. I don't know anything about sheep. But are they foragers like goats or grazers like cattle/horses?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Many people who have the 2 of them together offer only sheep minerals, like this one,

http://www.co-opfeeds.com/ourcoop08/feeds/products/sheep/productDetail.aspx?fm=79 ,

and extra free choice copper sulfate.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I've always heard to just feed sheep feed and give the goats copper bolus often. This one cool idea I read on here, was to put the goat minerals up on a raised platform. The goats would jump to get it but the sheep wouldn't. I though that was ingenious


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Cattle, horses, sheep, and goats, will all eat browse. All will also graze. Sheep are better grazers than goats. If someone wants to buy a goat to be a lawn mower, I always suggest they get a katahdin sheep instead. But trust me, they will all eat that tasty browse.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I've always heard to just feed sheep feed and give the goats copper bolus often. This one cool idea I read on here, was to put the goat minerals up on a raised platform. The goats would jump to get it but the sheep wouldn't. I though that was ingenious


Lambs and adolescents will though, so be careful


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I had to sell my sheep, because my husband, always allergic to wool, got REALLY allergic. Since I could not do all the work myself, it was unfair for me to keep them. But we still have our cattle, goats, and on occasion, horses.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I had to sell my sheep, because my husband, always allergic to wool, got REALLY allergic. Since I could not do all the work myself, it was unfair for me to keep them. But we still have our cattle, goats, and on occasion, horses.


How sad! I don't know what I would do if I was allergic to any of my animals... It's good to read that sheep can co-exist along with my goats, donkey's and horses. I have always wanted to try "hair" sheep.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Frankly, it was a relief. Everything was too much. And as rough as this year continues to be, I'm so happy to not have them.

I always wanted Jacobs, still do but won't get them. I hope you are able to do what you want.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Madgoat said:


> SundewFarms, got a question, looking at your photo you have sheep and goats together? How do you separate them at feeding time, since sheep feed isn't good for goats and vice versa?


Not to take over your question, but I raise sheep and goats together. They are pastured/penned together all year. I have loose sheep mineral out for them at all times and feed alfalfa pellets if needed. I copper bolus the goats once or twice a year as needed and the milkers get goat specific grain on the stand.


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## confederatemule (Jan 19, 2016)

I recommend a standard size donkey. I think they are much better at the guardian job. Be sure it is a Jenny (female). I am so glad we opted for a 6 year old Jenny even though she had never seen a goat before. She is awesome with the kids as well as the grown goats. Very protective. The only negative I find about a donkey is that you can easily overfeed them and cause problems. Problems like obesity and founder. A donkey does very well on rough hay only.
I don't recommend a dog of any kind.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

Unlike confederate mule, I loath donkeys and prefer dogs. I use herding dogs and move large commercial flocks. Donkeys kill and challenge all canines, but I can pretty handily break any LGD I've ever met into knowing my working dogs in a day or two. A good electronet fence will help. You can use high tensile woven wire on poly posts and heat the whole thing up very cost effectively. You could also buy Perma-net and make a box in a box very affordably.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

confederatemule said:


> I don't recommend a dog of any kind.


I'm certain you have your reasons. I sure can't intuit them. The dogs here have been so successful and amazing.

Could I draw you out on this stance?


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## confederatemule (Jan 19, 2016)

mariarose said:


> Could I draw you out on this stance?


Does that mean that you want my reasons? If so, here they are in a nutshell.
I don't like dogs and at the same time, I like dogs.
But I don't like to listen to dogs. I don't like to have to worry about visitors being bit for no obvious reason. In my opinion, a dog is as filthy as a mature buck goat. Dogs instinctively travel and I only have 20 acres so they don't have enough room to travel (I don't like for them to be confined).

For most folks a dog is very comforting, for me a dog is very frustrating.

Now you have most of my reasons.
Please don't try to make a debate out of this. I won't respond. I shouldn't of responded to this.

Mule


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, I was curious about your reasons. Thank you for telling me.

No, I did not want a debate.


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## confederatemule (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks, mariarose. I did not go into the reasons for preferring a donkey but I figgered you were mainly interested in why I did not want a dog.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd also like to know about the plusses of donkeys! I love donkeys though, so that wasn't as much of a mystery.

No one should have an animal they don't even like. It's like poultry. Most people who have poultry have chickens. I prefer ducks. I hate turkeys, so I won't keep them.

Yes, Please tell me your experiences with donkeys.


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

Madgoat said:


> SundewFarms, got a question, looking at your photo you have sheep and goats together? How do you separate them at feeding time, since sheep feed isn't good for goats and vice versa?


I did not separate them, as I free feed alfalfa to both species and do not grain feed any except weaned/growing kids and lactating does. I was giving loose sheep minerals and just gave the goats in that pen a copper bolus to last them until the sheep were gone. My sheep are only at my property for the couple months of lambing season, then they are gone out on pasture the rest of the year.

However, this picture is from February or March of this year, and I've built many more pens this year. So the new set-up is that there is a pen just for the sheep during lambing, and the goats are all divided into separate pens based on their stage of growth or lactation. And the sheep pen will have an area that funnels into a catch pen with a handling chute and trailer loading ramp, because they're impossible to deal with otherwise, but I haven't had a chance to build those yet. Current project is 5 fenceline feeders for a new goat pen, then I'll focus on the sheep facilities.


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