# what should I feed my nannies



## goatlady1314

I have around 30 does 8-11 months old and some didnt grow very good what should I feed them?


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## toth boer goats

Alfalfa and a 16% protein grain. Start them out slowly on it.

Also, if they are stunted, I'd get a fecal on at least one for worms and cocci, it does stunt growth.

Have free choice loose salt and minerals with copper for them.

They may also have deficiencies, which can stunt growth as well, if they have no access to the salt and minerals. Don't use blocks they are no good.

What kind of goats are they?


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## goatlady1314

I have 2 nubian 2 lamanchas 2 alpines and the rest are sannan. We got them as bottle babies and we raised them on corn and hay. We didnt know they needed vaccines untill now so we are going to get that done soon.


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## ksalvagno

I wouldn't be surprised if you have a coccidia problem. Also they are probably mineral deficient if you don't have a good loose goat mineral out for them.


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## goatlady1314

I have loose mineral for them. Can they still grow if it is a coccidia problem?


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## ksalvagno

They can if you get the coccidia under control. I would have a fecal done on a few of your worst girls and go from there.

I don't know enough about silage to know if that was part of your problem too.


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## goatlady1314

I just started feeding the siliage a few months ago. How can I get that under control. Im new to goats so thank you very much for all your help


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## ksalvagno

I'd first get the fecal done to verify any parasites. We are diagnosing on the internet and not physically looking at your goats.

If the fecal shows coccidia, then get Sulmet or DiMethox. I would drench each goat individually to make sure they get the proper dosage. 1cc per 5 lbs day 1 and 1cc per 10 lbs days 2-5. Depending on how bad the coccidia is, I would do it again in 2 weeks.


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## goatlady1314

Will it hurt them if I give it to them even if they dont have it? Just to make sure. How do I get a fecal test?


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## toth boer goats

Take a poo sample to the vet, they will test it, make sure, you include worms and cocci testing.

If you treat them and they do not have it ,but, have worms, you have wasted that time, on the wrong issue and treatment. 

How are their gums and lower eyelid coloring. white, pale pink or nice and red?


I would stop feeding the silage, it is possible, it can cause Listeriosis, which is very bad. 
Alfalfa is best and will help them grow, if they are worm and cocci free.


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## goatlady1314

They do get alfalfa on top of the siliage. There is a guy around here that milks goats and all he feeds them is siliage and hayliage. When they were babies a few of them had coccidioses we gave them dimethox for a while but we would only put a cap full in thier water?


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## liz

Goats need to have roughage in the form of browse during the growing season as well as good quality hay..mixed grass, alfalfa, timothy/clover when the growing season is done. Alfalfa pellets help with added nutrition.
Giving only corn doesn't do much for them as far as balanced nutrition... if it's not been crimped, cracked or steamed they can't process it.

As far as the treatment you did with the DiMethox, adding it to water and not giving it according to weight in individual doses usually does no good to rid the one with the infection.
Feeding that many goats to add weight and condition can be over whelming, I'd start the ones needing it most on a 16% goat feed and add in dry beet pulp shreds.


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## goatlady1314

Ok thanks


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## Scottyhorse

I would consider switching to ALL free choice alfalfa, a good loose goat mineral like Sweet Licks Meat Maker, and grain. A 16-18% protein mix should be good. They should get at least 1 lb per 100 lbs of body weight, but if they need more weight, you could bump up to 1.5 lbs or 2 lbs. Ground flax seed and safflower oil also help. You can supplement with something like Calf Manna. It is high protein and great for weight gain. Same with the grain. Start with 1/2 lb per 100 lbs of body weight, and if they aren't showing improvment after 2-3 weeks, bump up their ration. Have a fecal run for worms and cocci, because those can really run a goat into the ground... Is anyone have loose poop? Are eyelids and gums nice bright pink or red?


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## Scottyhorse

A handful or two of black oil sunflower seeds would be beneficial, too.


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## goatlady1314

The only thing I have avalible to feed them is corn (grinded), corn siliage, hayliage, soybean meal, alfalfa mixed with grass hay, and minerals and salt,. Could anyone tell me how if all these things I should be feeding them morning and night? Any help/advice is as appreciated


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## Scottyhorse

Do you not have a feed store around? It would be hard to get them to satisfactory condition with just the alfalfa/grass hay mix. I would do the hay, minerals, and salt right now.


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## goatlady1314

No corn?


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## toth boer goats

Corn isn't as good as a 16% protein grain. Not much benefits from corn.


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## Scottyhorse

I agree with Pam. Corn is more of a treat, it will not help with weight gain or milk production, etc.


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## MsScamp

Scottyhorse said:


> I agree with Pam. Corn is more of a treat, it will not help with weight gain or milk production, etc.


Actually, corn will help with weight gain. Why do you think ranchers use corn to fatten up their steers for slaughter? The secret to feeding corn - whether for growing goats or steers destined for the dinner table - lies in the amount you feed.


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## Scottyhorse

GoatCrazy said:


> Actually, corn will help with weight gain. Why do you think ranchers use corn to fatten up their steers for slaughter? The secret to feeding corn - whether for growing goats or steers destined for the dinner table - lies in the amount you feed.


What is the nutritional content of it? I have been hearing to avoid corn.. I am trying to feed more whole natural grains to my goats... Also wondering if it would wear their teeth down unless it's cracked?


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## MsScamp

Corn carries a protein content of roughly 8%. It is high energy, so it works pretty good for heavy bred does who need the extra energy. The protein content is not high enough to contribute to kids growing too big like 16 or 18% protein feeds can, however. Yes, whole corn is hard on teeth. That problem can be easily averted by cracking it. I'm not sure where corn got it's bad rep with goat people, but it has it's place in the grain line-up.

PS I'm sure you are aware of the fact that protein is the most expensive part of any feeding regimen. Are you aware of the fact that every animal requires a certain amount of protein for each stage of production and if the protein is over-fed then the excess protein is eliminated via urine or feces? Why on earth would anyone want to pay for protein that cannot and will not be utilized due to overfeeding it? Just a little something to think about.


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## Scottyhorse

Wonder if it would help our goats during the cold winter months. Hmm. Maybe I will try some for my old gal later in the spring when she is great with child


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## MsScamp

The best thing you can do to help your goats through the cold winter months is feed grass hay when possible. Heat is produced through digestion, and grass hay is harder to digest than alfalfa - thus it produces more heat. Short bred does will do fine on a high quality straight grass hay, but need a higher plane of nutrition at about day 100 of their gestation so transition them to a high quality grass/alfalfa. The only reason I feed grass/alfalfa throughout the year is because I do not have access to straight grass hay. If I had access to high quality straight grass hay my open and short bred does would be getting that. A little cracked corn would provide extra energy during the last month without adding a lot of protein.


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## Scottyhorse

All anyone grows around here is grass hay, unless we want to pay super high prices ($15 a bale) for bad grass hay from the feed store.


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## goatlady1314

Ya I thought it made them gain weight all my goats are fat but not to fat. I have lots of grass hay and I will start feeding it thanks


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## toth boer goats

I will stick to my guns on the corn and goats, not a good grain alone, to try to gain weight on, but is OK to put a little in the mix. 
Goats do better on a well balanced grain, that is not "goat candy". 
Feeding grains that are made for goats or cattle will give better results and you can feed more of it. With Corn, you feed too much, it will start issues and if fed alone, it will not benefit them.
It isn't fat you want to put on goats, it is the proteins for muscle, that is way more important. With Beef cattle, fat is good, with goats it is not and isn't healthy.


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## MsScamp

Scottyhorse said:


> All anyone grows around here is grass hay, unless we want to pay super high prices ($15 a bale) for bad grass hay from the feed store.


Nobody wants to grow straight grass around here because it's too hard to keep the weeds, canadian thistle, sandburrs, fox tail, and wild mustard out of it. We get a lot of wind and it blows trash seed into the grass fields.


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## goatlady1314

Most people around here sell alfalfa hay unless its 10 year then its pretty grassy thats what we got.


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## Scottyhorse

goatlady1314 said:


> Ya I thought it made them gain weight all my goats are fat but not to fat. I have lots of grass hay and I will start feeding it thanks


I thought you said in the OP that some are stunted and they all need a little weight?


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## goatlady1314

Ok they are fat but i need them to get taller


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## Scottyhorse

Are you sure they are fat? Do you have any pictures? This is how I judge my goats' weights:

First I feel their ribs. If I can just rest my hand on their rib cage and feel them, they are def. too skinny. If I can feel them with little effort, they are too skinny for my liking, but as dairy goats, not bad. If they have a nice layer of muscle over their ribs, then I have them where I want. If I have to poke a little harder to feel ribs, they are maybe a little overweight, but not bad, especially going into winter. In fact, I would rather have them on the pudgy side in winter because it helps keep them warm. If I poke and prod and can't feel their ribs at all, they have fat pockets behind their shoulders, or their tail webs are fat, then they are over weight for sure.


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## goatlady1314

I will get pictures soon


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## Scottyhorse

Some goats can look fat, because they have thick hair, or large rumens. It is best to feel their ribs, I find it most accurate


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## goatlady1314

They are not skinny so thats good


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## Scottyhorse

That is good!


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## goatlady1314

I got a pic its not very good but this goat is about 8 months old had coccidiosis when she was younger. Ill get more tomorrow


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## goatlady1314

Did the pic load?


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## Scottyhorse

Yes it did  What breed is she? She doesn't look _too_ bad, but I agree, she could be larger, depending on breed


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## goatlady1314

She is a sannan


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## Scottyhorse

Have you had a fecal run on any of them? Of have them tested for cocci? She looks like she is not too skinny, but looks stunted to me IMO. Maybe it's just the picture.


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## goatlady1314

No I didnt run any tests.... she did have very bad cocci when she was younger.. didnt know what to give her but we got her over it with ag pack and probiotic mixes


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## goatlady1314

Got some more pics


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## Scottyhorse

They look like they may be wormy.... I would run fecal tests on a few of them, and ask the vet to test for cocci too. Make sure you get what worms are present in the fecal test, so you know what wormer will work best


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## goatlady1314

If cicci did stunt their growth can they still grow tho


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## Scottyhorse

Yes, usually. Sometimes they will never mature enough to breed, though.


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## goatlady1314

Do I have to treat them for cocci before they will start growing again? Your not sure thats what happend tho right?


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## CAjerseychick

They look alot fatter than my skinny crew?! We are feeding goat mix cob and alfalfa/ grass hay (and lots of browse)... Worming them though they have worms... thats my experience....


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## goatlady1314

Ya ik they r pretty big! So u think its the cocci? Or the worms


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## Scottyhorse

goatlady1314 said:


> Do I have to treat them for cocci before they will start growing again? Your not sure thats what happend tho right?


Don't treat them unless they have it. Send in a few fecal samples to the vet and have them test it. If a couple goats are wormy, treat all the ones that look the worst first.


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## goatlady1314

I would treat all of them together if do. Will it hurt them if they do not have it and i treat them?


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## ksalvagno

No, it won't hurt them.


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## goatlady1314

So I treat them with di-methox?


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## goatlady1314

Treat them with di-methox right?


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## ksalvagno

DiMethox or Sulmet is fine.


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## goatlady1314

How much


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## ksalvagno

1cc per 5 lbs day 1 and 1cc per 10 lbs days 2-5. It is easier to buy the liquid form and you just give it straight. I have never used the powder form but if you do a search, you should be able to find mixing instructions.


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## goatlady1314

Ok ive changed there ration to oats soybean mill and growth pellets how does that sound?


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## Scottyhorse

What are in the growth pellets? I think that should be a good mix. What are they getting hay wise?


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## goatlady1314

Im not sure whats in them but ill check tonight  they get alfalfa in the morning and grass at night as it gets cold at night and grass some how makes them warmer


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## Scottyhorse

That sounds like a good diet. Make sure they have a good loose mineral, too.


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## goatlady1314

I have pictures of them now so you guys can see if they look any better.


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## TDG-Farms

Actually the main reason corn was used was because it was the cheapest. Weight gain was achieved through quantity not quality it. "Cracking" it helped in terms of digestibility. Whole corn, as we all know, just passes through most digestive tracks untouched. Its typically added to other grains now just for taste.

The article Crazy is siting from: http://www.ehow.com/about_6659635_cracked-corn-nutrition.html


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## goatlady1314

I am no longer giving then corn that is why I asked how they looked since I started them on a new grain about 3 weeks ago. Oats pellets and alfalfa hay.


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## TDG-Farms

I agree, sounds like a good diet. A good loose mineral topping that off and you should be fine in the nutrition dept. And you dont have to stop corn all together. Goaties love it. Wet cob is like candy to mine


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## goatlady1314

TDG-Farms said:


> I agree, sounds like a good diet. A good loose mineral topping that off and you should be fine in the nutrition dept. And you dont have to stop corn all together. Goaties love it. Wet cob is like candy to mine


Ok


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## Scottyhorse

Looking a bit betting but definitely still thin.


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## goatlady1314

Ok... it must of been a bad angle because all my goats are fat!!


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## Texaslass

While I agree with everyone here that your goats may have coccidiosis, I just wanted to add that it could just as easily be worms that you're dealing with. Worms can stunt growth too, if not dealt with in time. :shrug:

If your goats were treated for cocci before, then maybe that's not the problem now.

But I really wish you would get a fecal run on them. You just can't know which kind of med to use if you don't know the problem first. Some wormers don't work on all worms, so if you find out what kind of worms you have, you can ask on here and someone will tell you what wormer works best for that kind of worm, and how much to use. 

Also, bear in mind that if you are going to worm, it's good to do it 3 times, 11 days apart (i.e. dose, eleven days later dose a second time, eleven days after that dose a third time), to get the different cycles of worms, otherwise you could be right back where you started in no time.

Also, correct *dosage* is VERY important! You have to weigh each goat individually and dose at the correct rate. You CAN"T generalize and give them all the same just because they look "about" the same size. You'd be surprised how much one can weigh that looks just a little bigger than another. 

Okay, I'm done for now.  Here's a link to a chart that makes weighing SO much easier. You can use a regular flexible tape measure (sewing tape measure is was I use), no scale required.  http://fiascofarm.com/goats/weight-chart.htm


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## goatlady1314

Texaslass said:


> While I agree with everyone here that your goats may have coccidiosis, I just wanted to add that it could just as easily be worms that you're dealing with. Worms can stunt growth too, if not dealt with in time. :shrug:
> 
> If your goats were treated for cocci before, then maybe that's not the problem now.
> 
> But I really wish you would get a fecal run on them. You just can't know which kind of med to use if you don't know the problem first. Some wormers don't work on all worms, so if you find out what kind of worms you have, you can ask on here and someone will tell you what wormer works best for that kind of worm, and how much to use.
> 
> Also, bear in mind that if you are going to worm, it's good to do it 3 times, 11 days apart (i.e. dose, eleven days later dose a second time, eleven days after that dose a third time), to get the different cycles of worms, otherwise you could be right back where you started in no time.
> 
> Also, correct dosage is VERY important! You have to weigh each goat individually and dose at the correct rate. You CAN"T generalize and give them all the same just because they look "about" the same size. You'd be surprised how much one can weigh that looks just a little bigger than another.
> 
> Okay, I'm done for now.  Here's a link to a chart that makes weighing SO much easier. You can use a regular flexible tape measure (sewing tape measure is was I use), no scale required.  http://fiascofarm.com/goats/weight-chart.htm


I have weighed them with this method and my 6 month old sannen weighed 54 pounds? I dont knoe if that is a healthy weight or not. I wormed them once with safe gaurd about a month ago so ill have to do it again


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## goatlady1314

Also my 11 month old sannen sally weighed 125? Is that obesity?


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## Texaslass

The six month old might be a little small... Generally, you want around a 10 lbs a month weight gain. Say she was 8 lbs at birth, she ought to be 18 lbs by one month, 28 at two months, etc..

So she probably ought to be around 68-70 lbs maybe? Roughly. 

The 11 month old sounds nice and healthy, but you could feel her ribs to be sure.


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## goatlady1314

I did I cant feel anything lol. Here a pictures


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## ksalvagno

Safeguard only works on roundworm and tapeworm. You also need to do Safeguard for 3 days in a row when you have a problem. 

If your girls have any other worms than above mentioned, then you aren't treating their problem.

You need to get a fecal done to include coccidia and then use the appropriate wormer at the correct dosage for the weight of each goat.


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## ksalvagno

goatlady1314 said:


> Also my 11 month old sannen sally weighed 125? Is that obesity?


Are you absolutely sure you measured in the correct spot?


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## ksalvagno

goatlady1314 said:


> I have weighed them with this method and my 6 month old sannen weighed 54 pounds? I dont knoe if that is a healthy weight or not. I wormed them once with safe gaurd about a month ago so ill have to do it again


That is definitely underweight for a Sannen.


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## goatlady1314

ksalvagno said:


> Are you absolutely sure you measured in the correct spot?


Yes I am sure I even double checked lol


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## ksalvagno

Sannens do get to be big but I would body score her too. Do a search on body scoring goats and you should find links on how to do it.


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## goatlady1314

ksalvagno said:


> Sannens do get to be big but I would body score her too. Do a search on body scoring goats and you should find links on how to do it.


Ok I looked it up and I cant figure it out ;-)


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## Texaslass

It's spelled "Saanen". d: Sorry, I couldn't help it, it kept being spelled so many different ways on this thread.


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## goatlady1314

Texaslass said:


> It's spelled "Saanen". d: Sorry, I couldn't help it, it kept being spelled so many different ways on this thread.


Here it is spelled sannen!


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## goatlady1314

What is a body score and how do I do it?


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## TDG-Farms

Correct spelling: 

Alpine, Nubian, Saanen, Lamancha, Toggenburg, Oberhasli, Nigerian, Pygmy, Boer. As recognized by their respected registries.

Feel free to pronounce them anyway you see fit. My friend pronounces boer as boyer. And I enjoy when he says it


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## goatlady1314

Haha thanks for the list lol


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## ksalvagno

goatlady1314 said:


> What is a body score and how do I do it?


Do a search on "body scoring a goat" and you should find the instructions on how to do it.


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## rockytg

Here is a link for how to do a body score:http://www.luresext.edu/goats/research/bcshowto.html

Some of it just takes practice and seeing lots of goats. It is a hands on affair since goats can have thick coats which can be deceptive.


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## goatlady1314

I cant really figure out the body scoring, but here are some pictures of my older nannies










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How do they look?


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## goatlady1314

Well?


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## Texaslass

Sorry, I meant to reply the other day and then forgot!

I don't really know how either, but they look okay to me, maybe a tad more padded than they ought to be, but that's probably better than being thin.


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## TDG-Farms

It might help if all the pictures didnt require you to put your monitor on its side to see


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## goatlady1314

ya my phone does that, I can get some better pics this morning if that would help?


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## kccjer

If, after you take the pics, do a "crop" on them....if your phone will let you. Or hold your phone horizontal to take pics instead of vertical. Mine does that too if i have the phone vertical to take pics...if I crop, even a tiny bit, it turns them right side up.


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## goatlady1314

Ya it works fine when I hold it horizontally.


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## goatlady1314

Sorry I forgot about pics today but ill get em tomorrow


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## Scottyhorse

None of them look TOO bad. How old are the oldest? I would get some more weight on them for sure before they are in milk, though. Are any pregnant?


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## goatlady1314

Yes all are


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## Scottyhorse

Ok so you will need to feed them differently then, especially in the last month of pregnancy. What is the age of the youngest goat, and what is the age if the oldest goat? What are they currently eating now?


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## goatlady1314

The youngest is 11 months and the oldest is 1 year and 3 months, they are being fed hay grain and loise minerals.


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## Scottyhorse

What kind of grain and hay?


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## goatlady1314

I feed them show performance grain and for the hay grass in the morning and alfalfa at night


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## Scottyhorse

Ok that sounds pretty good. How much grain are they each getting?


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## goatlady1314

About a scoop each


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## Scottyhorse

How much is a 'scoop'.


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## goatlady1314

4 cups


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## Scottyhorse

Ok that is a good amount. They just recently switched to this better feed, right?


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## goatlady1314

Yes


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## Struyksrus

Scottyhorse said:


> Yes, usually. Sometimes they will never mature enough to breed, though.


How do you tell if they have developed enough to breed? Just based on them coming into heat or is it based on size?


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## goatlady1314

Yeah I was wondering the same thing?


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## ksalvagno

Struyksrus said:


> How do you tell if they have developed enough to breed? Just based on them coming into heat or is it based on size?


Based on size.


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## Struyksrus

ksalvagno said:


> Based on size.


So if they stop growing bigger but still develope and go into heat couldn't you safely breed them with a mini goat buck?


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