# Peanut, the Nigerian Dwarf



## BekaNPeanut

Good Afternoon! So my name is Beka, and my grandmother has a herd if Nigerian Dwarf goats at her farm. On the 20th I went down with my boyfriend to let in our horses. One of our mothers who we purposely breed early had triplets that past Saturday. The kids were almost a week. I checked on them and gave mom grain and found that one of the kids was not acting right and would not run when we touched her. Most of our kids are always very skittish and she had been before this. I told gram and she went down the next morning. We brought her to my house and she had labored breathing and wasn't acting right and was skinny. So we called a vet and asked he said to give her 2-3 ccs of penicillin IM. We did so and that made one of her legs lame for a while. She has refused since we took her from mom to take any kind of nipple, we have tried eleven different shapes, including a lumbar one. So since I have been syringe feeding her through a 5cc syringe. We have been milking mom because the other two have shown no interest in the left side of her bag. However, after a while, Peanut, the kid we took away, started showing signs of joint ill. The vet then told us to continue the penicillin for 4-5 days. She was eating good and the one day ate 12-15 full syringes in one sitting. I had been reading that you should let them eat as much as they want as long as it doesn't exceed four ounces. The next day she refused to eat and was grinding her teeth. Since she has not eaten willingly and is grinding her teeth every now and then. She does pick around with green grass and grain and we have just recently tried applesauce and she seems to like that a whole lot. However, will not drink milk without me forcing it. She is still very skinny and is very tired all the time. Last night we did have to give her an enema because she had not pooped in several days. She pees fine but will not poop. I really have no clue what else to do. She will not feed for either of my Grandmas or my Grandpa. She is very much imprinted on me and we are running out of ideas on how to make her better or help her.


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## ksalvagno

Has the vet actually seen her physically? Sounds like she needs to be tube fed to get milk in her.


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## Moers kiko boars

Can you give her Milk of magnesia? She needs it to continue pooping and working her rumen. Put a pinch of baking soda in her 1st bottle, only. When you feed her, dont let her eat until her tummy is firm. Thats hard on her system. She should have a few ounces in every feeding. Hope this helps


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Has the vet actually seen her physically? Sounds like she needs to be tube fed to get milk in her.


No the vet has not but we have a scheduled appointment for Saturday.


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## BekaNPeanut

Moers kiko boars said:


> Can you give her Milk of magnesia? She needs it to continue pooping and working her rumen. Put a pinch of baking soda in her 1st bottle, only. When you feed her, dont let her eat until her tummy is firm. Thats hard on her system. She should have a few ounces in every feeding. Hope this helps


What is milk of magnesia? And how much do you recommend per feeding for her to be eating? I've only been giving her about 3-4 of the 5cc syringe.


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## BekaNPeanut

Do milk if magnesia and the baking soda together? And how much milk of magnesia? she’s only about three pounds. We did give her private for her stomach for the penicillin. However you said not to feed her until her belly was firm but her belly is almost always firm? what do i do in that case? We also checked her inner lip and eyelids and she appears to mildly anemic as well. As well having Joint I’ll.


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## Moers kiko boars

Milk of magnesium about 1/2 cc once a day for 3 days. 
Baking soda just a pinch in her 1st feeding only, help her tummy
Being anemic. 1/2 cc red cell everyday for 5 days.


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## BekaNPeanut

Moers kiko boars said:


> Milk of magnesium about 1/2 cc once a day for 3 days.
> Baking soda just a pinch in her 1st feeding only, help her tummy
> Being anemic. 1/2 cc red cell everyday for 5 days.


Red Cell? What is that?


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## Moers kiko boars

Red cell is a vitamin b complex flavored with yukka. So its sweet tasting & very healthy.


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## BekaNPeanut

Moers kiko boars said:


> Red cell is a vitamin b complex flavored with yukka. So its sweet tasting & very healthy.


Okay, where can i find that? and how do I get her to start eating? She won't nurses of a nipple and won't take the syringe willingly i have to do it slowly through the corner of her mouth.


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## Moers kiko boars

I bought mine at Tractor supply. Its in a wine colored plastic bottle. 
You might need to tube her. Just to get a few ccs in her. Then try the nipple again. There are alot of forums on nipples and how to get the kidd to drink. Mostly warming the milk to 100° is the most important.


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## ksalvagno

So she is only getting 15 to 20 cc of milk per feeding? She is starving. You really do need to tube her. She isn't pooping because she isn't getting enough food to produce poop.


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## BekaNPeanut

Okay thank you!


Moers kiko boars said:


> I bought mine at Tractor supply. Its in a wine colored plastic bottle.
> You might need to tube her. Just to get a few ccs in her. Then try the nipple again. There are alot of forums on nipples and how to get the kidd to drink. Mostly warming the milk to 100° is the most important.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> So she is only getting 15 to 20 cc of milk per feeding? She is starving. You really do need to tube her. She isn't pooping because she isn't getting enough food to produce poop.


Except I can't get her to eat it. She used to eat like 50 cc for most feedings and used to try and nurse on the syringe but then she just stopped. Except I don't know how to tube an animal. And the person above said not to feed her till her belly felt firm but her belly feels firm almost all of the time.


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## mariella

How do you know she only weighs 3 pounds? Did you weigh her or are you guessing? If she really is only 3 pounds at a week old she's malnourished and you need to get more into her now! 
Are you only giving what the mama produces? If so you need to find someone selling goats milk and start her on it because at some point the other babies will start eating off that side you won't have anything to give her. Her mother's milk is best for her but you never know when the others will eat it all. Try to get the vet out sooner to tube feed her, does your vet know anything about goats? 
Have you taken her temperature? 
Can you get pictures of her so we can make a better call?


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## BekaNPeanut

mariella said:


> How do you know she only weighs 3 pounds? Did you weigh her or are you guessing? If she really is only 3 pounds at a week old she's malnourished and you need to get more into her now!
> Are you only giving what the mama produces? If so you need to find someone selling goats milk and start her on it because at some point the other babies will start eating off that side you won't have anything to give her. Her mother's milk is best for her but you never know when the others will eat it all. Try to get the vet out sooner to tube feed her, does your vet know anything about goats?
> Have you taken her temperature?
> Can you get pictures of her so we can make a better call?


Yes we weighed her. No the vet can't come any sooner. And no we are also feeding her a mixture of fresh cows milk, because the vet had said that would also work if we couldn't get enough from mom. And yes we've taken her temperature, it has ranged but mostly between the good range. Once it went above that but we had given her penicillin for that. How much should I be feeding her? And yes she always lays like that.


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## ksalvagno

I think what they are saying is firm and what you think is firm are 2 different things. They are talking about being a little rounded around the stomach. With feeding by syringe, she can also aspirate. I know you are trying your hardest and your best. No one is questioning that. But you have to find a way to get more milk in her. You can find YouTube videos on how to tube a goat.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> I think what they are saying is firm and what you think is firm are 2 different things. They are talking about being a little rounded around the stomach. With feeding by syringe, she can also aspirate. I know you are trying your hardest and your best. No one is questioning that. But you have to find a way to get more milk in her. You can find YouTube videos on how to tube a goat.


Okay. And where would I find the tubes needed to tube her? And how much should he be weighing by now? And yes I know about the aspirating, I have syringe fed animals before and I have been watching for that.


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## mariella

50cc's is less than 2 ounces (I made sure) so I would say try getting 150cc's in her at a time but at the least 100cc's 4 times a day. I don't know a lot about ND goats but if she was born around 2-3 pounds she should be around 6-8 pounds but again I'm used to the bigger breeds so I don't really know.

https://www.jefferspet.com/categories/goat/kid-center/bottles-nipples-2


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## ksalvagno

You should be able to find supplies at your local farm store. But you could even get the tubing at places like Lowe's or Home Depot.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> You should be able to find supplies at your local farm store. But you could even get the tubing at places like Lowe's or Home Depot.


Okay. The Vet comes tomorrow so I'm gonna try feeding her four -five syringe fulls every hour today, and hope that goes well. And we just took her temperature and she's at 101.8.


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## ksalvagno

That is good. Hopefully the vet can show you how to tube along with checking her over good.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> That is good. Hopefully the vet can show you how to tube along with checking her over good.


Yes hopefully.. I appreciate all the good info though. She's almost three weeks old and will be tomorrow. So I'm hoping to keep her alive.


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## toth boer goats

https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/red-cell-1527

Red cell is not what was described earlier. 
It is an iron supplement and has other things in it. See link.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/red-cell-1527
> 
> Red cell is not what was described earlier.
> It is an iron supplement and has other things in it. See link.


Okay. So still use that for the Anemia?


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## toth boer goats

Yes, just wanted to clarify what it has. Iron is needed for anemia.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, just wanted to clarify what it has. Iron is needed for anemia.


Okay. Now another question. Electrolytes? The vet over the phone had mentioned the possibility of her getting dehydrated and how would i tell that and should I give her electrolytes? We have a goat electrolyte mixture.


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## toth boer goats

Electrolytes is always good to give.

Gently pull the skin outward.
Release.
If it snaps back quickly, not dehydrated. 
Snaps back slowly, dehydrated. 

Another indication, suck in flanks and eye socket area.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> Electrolytes is always good to give.
> 
> Gently pull the skin outward.
> Release.
> If it snaps back quickly, not dehydrated.
> Snaps back slowly, dehydrated.
> 
> Another indication, suck in flanks and eye socket area.


Okay. Anything else you think I should be checking for? Another thing, she also tried to be in my lap 24/7 and will attempt to jump into my lap at any chance. She does not like to run around at all.


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## BekaNPeanut

Update. So we took her to the vet yesterday. He gave her three shots. One hat was a multi-mineral-vitamin, for any deficiencies. He gave her draxxin and then gave her a shot of bose. He did not want us to tube feed her. He said to continue what we had been doing. Today she seems more lively and is running around a bit more however still won’t nurse a nipple. I have been trying to feed her every hour or so just to make sure i’m feeding her enough. Do you guys have any more suggestions on getting her to take a nipple? And another question. Do you given selenium injection or paste before does kid? Gram was wondering because she usually gives the paste.


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## toth boer goats

Glad the vet seen her.

What nipple are you using?

Selenium injection. 
Cures the issue quicker.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> Glad the vet seen her.
> 
> What nipple are you using?
> 
> Selenium injection.
> Cures the issue quicker.


We've tried several. I've tried one made for puppies and kittens. I've tried the ones for goats, i've tried ones for babies. I just continuously try all of them to see if she'd take to any but she refuses. But she'll suck on my finger.


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## toth boer goats

Start her sucking your finger, then try to slip the nipple in there if possible. Have someone tickle her tail head area.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> Start her sucking tour finger then try to slip the nipple in there if possible. Have someone tickle her tail head area.


Except we've tried that and we've even tried like putting her under our knees to see if that's make her feel like she was under mom.


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## ksalvagno

Did you try the Pritchard nipple? The is the red nipple with yellow screw cap.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Did you try the Pritchard nipple? The is the red nipple with yellow screw cap.


Yes. That's the one we usually use on babies that we have to bottle feed.


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## Moers kiko boars

Never tried this..just a thought. What if you put a touch if molasses on the nipple..maybe it would taste good and she would take the nipple then.


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## BekaNPeanut

Moers kiko boars said:


> Never tried this..just a thought. What if you put a touch if molasses on the nipple..maybe it would taste good and she would take the nipple then.


Maybe. i'll have to try that when we feed her again.


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## BekaNPeanut

Molasses did not work.


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## ksalvagno

Try honey.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Try honey.


Okay. I'll try that for her morning feeding. I'm not gonna mess with it at her 3:00 am.


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## BekaNPeanut

We tried honey. She just refuses the nipple. She will suck on fingers and ears but will not take a nipple. And for a while after the vet appt she did not want milk, so i tried mixing in a little applesauce and she takes the syringe right in her mouth as if it was a nipple. She is now eating quite a bit more and is getting about 60 mls every three hours. Sometimes more. She’s eating grain and always has a dish of that near by. She also loves fresh grass and has eaten to small paper plate fulls of it. However she has not gained any wait and is not getting any bigger. We had another doe kid on the 2nd and one kid on the 9th and she’s just a tad bigger than the newborns and the same size as the week olds. She still hunches her back end quite a bit and does not like to fully bend or use her back legs. She has learned how to jump at my recliner if she wants to be held. Any other things you guys might think is going on?


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## ksalvagno

She may have something internally going on that there is just no way to know or test for.


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## BekaNPeanut

Okay. Anything else I should watch for or?


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## ksalvagno

About all you can do is treat symptoms. With her not willingly taking a bottle, it just makes everything harder.


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## BekaNPeanut

Any idea as to why she isn’t growing? according to the vet she’s getting decent amount of food. And why does she not like using her back legs?


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## ksalvagno

Decent amount isn't enough to grow. She should be getting 15-20% of her bodyweight.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Decent amount isn't enough to grow. She should be getting 25-20% of her bodyweight.


She's getting that. The vet told us the same thing and calculated how much it should be and she's getting that. But won't grow and she always looks bloated.


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## ksalvagno

Then there must be something internal going on.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Then there must be something internal going on.


Okay. Do you think blood work might show something? And is there something you can do about bloating?


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## ksalvagno

Certainly could try it but no guarantee. Could always do an ultrasound and see what the internal organs look like. Really depends on how much you can afford to spend.

I'm not sure on the bloating. Do you give daily probiotics?


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## BekaNPeanut

Probiotics? Also should we try working her? She turned four weeks yesterday.


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## ksalvagno

What do you mean by working her? At 4 weeks she could have coccidia. I'd talk to your vet about worming since she has so many other problems.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> What do you mean by working her? At 4 weeks she could have coccidia. I'd talk to your vet about worming since she has so many other problems.


I mean to type worming, and we already have albon in case of coccidia. It's one of the things we do in the first week after the kids are born. Just for precaution.


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## MorgenAmera

A newborn Nigerian dwarf should be allowed at least 1/4 cup (about 60cc) of milk per feeding at least 4 times a day or they will begin to starve and each week should add 5-10cc per feeding. So at 4 weeks she should be eating anywhere from 80-100cc per feeding. If she didn't get enough in the first few days then it would have left her extremely vulnerable. It probably is also what caused the lack of poo, if they don't get enough then they won't. 
If you have treated for coccidia then that shouldn't be an issue. Might not be a terrible idea to treat again just in case.
However two things that did concern me and could be a possible problem is the fact that you said you fed applesauce to her and that the other kids refuse to drink of the other side of the udder. The first is an issue because applesauce has way too much sugar for a kid and definitely could have caused the later bloat and digestion issues. Using just a bit to make the nipple more tempting is fine but don't give it in any quantities larger than that. Also limit the grains a lot, at 4 weeks they can nibble them but really should stick to only grass and hay for solids since that can also cause bloat. The fact that the other kids don't want to drink off the one side immediately makes me suspect that the dam could have a mild case of mastitis which could have caused a mild infection or prevented her from getting enough colostrum right after birth. 
If she is bloaty you can try relieving it by getting her up on her hind legs, put her mouth as straight up as you can and gently stroking her thought. Usually that will help release the trapped gas. You could also put just a bit of baking soda in the milk, that will also help. If she was put on any antibiotics it would be wise to give some form of probiotics. The best option is one specifically made for goats but a low sugar Greek yogurt works well too and would give a bit of an energy boost. Even normal yogurt is fine, just stay away from the ones with a very high amount of sugar. If she likes apples you could try giving her a few small squished blueberries, they are a bit lower in sugar content and have other vitamins and minerals to give a boost. Even fresh apples are ok in very small amounts, it isn't nearly as bad as applesauce that has a much higher sugar concentration. 
Encourage exercises even if it is just having her follow you around for a few minutes every few hours. If she wants to stay in your lap let her, it is warmer and she will not have to use as much energy to keep herself warm. If she seems particularly sluggish in the morning she might be getting too cold and using up too much energy during the night and might need a heating pad or to be put in a warmer area. If she was very malnourished it will take a while for her to catch up, as long as she is eating well now and is gradually getting better then she will probably make it at this point. Until then she probably will be much weaker and smaller than normal.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> A newborn Nigerian dwarf should be allowed at least 1/4 cup (about 60cc) of milk per feeding at least 4 times a day or they will begin to starve and each week should add 5-10cc per feeding. So at 4 weeks she should be eating anywhere from 80-100cc per feeding. If she didn't get enough in the first few days then it would have left her extremely vulnerable. It probably is also what caused the lack of poo, if they don't get enough then they won't.
> If you have treated for coccidia then that shouldn't be an issue. Might not be a terrible idea to treat again just in case.
> However two things that did concern me and could be a possible problem is the fact that you said you fed applesauce to her and that the other kids refuse to drink of the other side of the udder. The first is an issue because applesauce has way too much sugar for a kid and definitely could have caused the later bloat and digestion issues. Using just a bit to make the nipple more tempting is fine but don't give it in any quantities larger than that. Also limit the grains a lot, at 4 weeks they can nibble them but really should stick to only grass and hay for solids since that can also cause bloat. The fact that the other kids don't want to drink off the one side immediately makes me suspect that the dam could have a mild case of mastitis which could have caused a mild infection or prevented her from getting enough colostrum right after birth.
> If she is bloaty you can try relieving it by getting her up on her hind legs, put her mouth as straight up as you can and gently stroking her thought. Usually that will help release the trapped gas. You could also put just a bit of baking soda in the milk, that will also help. If she was put on any antibiotics it would be wise to give some form of probiotics. The best option is one specifically made for goats but a low sugar Greek yogurt works well too and would give a bit of an energy boost. Even normal yogurt is fine, just stay away from the ones with a very high amount of sugar. If she likes apples you could try giving her a few small squished blueberries, they are a bit lower in sugar content and have other vitamins and minerals to give a boost. Even fresh apples are ok in very small amounts, it isn't nearly as bad as applesauce that has a much higher sugar concentration.
> Encourage exercises even if it is just having her follow you around for a few minutes every few hours. If she wants to stay in your lap let her, it is warmer and she will not have to use as much energy to keep herself warm. If she seems particularly sluggish in the morning she might be getting too cold and using up too much energy during the night and might need a heating pad or to be put in a warmer area. If she was very malnourished it will take a while for her to catch up, as long as she is eating well now and is gradually getting better then she will probably make it at this point. Until then she probably will be much weaker and smaller than normal.


Thank you so much for the info. And we have tested mom for mastitis. It was negative. The reason we did applesauce was because she will not drink milk alone. We have tried fresh goats milk, fresh cows milk, whole milk from the store, and goat replacer. The vet had said it was fine because it was more calories to help her gain weight. Is there another sweetener that's okay for her that we can put in the milk so that she'll drink it? She fights and fights and fights whenever she has to eat without the applesauce. She does not like milk. We are no longer doing any antibiotics. We did give probose, as probiotics when's we were doing the antibiotics. Yesterday we did give her a shot of Bo-Se and a shot of MultiMin. She will not take a nipple so she is fed out of a syringe, and she does not take it willingly without the applesauce mixed in the milk. I did take away the grain this morning and we are going to stop that and I have stopped the applesauce as of last night. She does not get fed four times a day, she gets fed every two to three hours and gets anywhere from 20-30 ml each feeding. Her last feeding at night is nine pm and she has one three am feeding and then we feed her at nine am and then the every two to three hours begins. Should we try working her? She is only four pounds as of when I weighed her yesterday. Again thank you for the help.


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## MorgenAmera

That sounds about right then as far as amount of food if she is getting 6-8 feedings a day. You might try stevia (liquid not granulated) since it is very sweet but doesn't have the sugar that can cause the bloat if it is a case of her having a major sweet tooth. I used to make goat lemonade with it, a bit of apple cider vinegar, and lemon juice as a treat for my goats and they always loved that, even the picky ones that didn't like the molasses version. If you do that though only use one or two drops per pint of milk, it is very strong. Nutri-drench could also be an option though she might not like it if she didn't like molasses. If she absolutely won't eat without the applesauce then only get the unsweetened kind (and absolutely no artificial sweeteners, xylitol in particular can be very dangerous to goats) since it usually has less than half the sugar of normal applesauce and limit it as much as possible, a very little bit should still flavor the milk while cutting down on the sugar content. Might try just dipping the nipple or syringe tip in it too, she would still get the flavor without actually consuming as much. The main issue at this point seems to be getting enough of the right nutrients into her which I know from experience can be a pain if you have a goat with a sweet tooth. At this point as long as she is gradually gaining weight she should be fine as long as she doesn't stop eating entirely and the bloat can be managed. I had one kid that got a cold at about 4 weeks old and while he was sick just did not want to eat very much. He did get through it fine but it took him about three months to catch back up with his brother as far as weight. Worming might be a good idea but you have to be careful not to overworm either as that can be hard on the liver. If you wormed her in the last 30 days than you probably shouldn't without asking the vet first.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> That sounds about right then as far as amount of food if she is getting 6-8 feedings a day. You might try stevia (liquid not granulated) since it is very sweet but doesn't have the sugar that can cause the bloat if it is a case of her having a major sweet tooth. I used to make goat lemonade with it, a bit of apple cider vinegar, and lemon juice as a treat for my goats and they always loved that, even the picky ones that didn't like the molasses version. If you do that though only use one or two drops per pint of milk, it is very strong. Nutri-drench could also be an option though she might not like it if she didn't like molasses. If she absolutely won't eat without the applesauce then only get the unsweetened kind (and absolutely no artificial sweeteners, xylitol in particular can be very dangerous to goats) since it usually has less than half the sugar of normal applesauce and limit it as much as possible, a very little bit should still flavor the milk while cutting down on the sugar content. Might try just dipping the nipple or syringe tip in it too, she would still get the flavor without actually consuming as much. The main issue at this point seems to be getting enough of the right nutrients into her which I know from experience can be a pain if you have a goat with a sweet tooth. At this point as long as she is gradually gaining weight she should be fine as long as she doesn't stop eating entirely and the bloat can be managed. I had one kid that got a cold at about 4 weeks old and while he was sick just did not want to eat very much. He did get through it fine but it took him about three months to catch back up with his brother as far as weight. Worming might be a good idea but you have to be careful not to overworm either as that can be hard on the liver. If you wormed her in the last 30 days than you probably shouldn't without asking the vet first.


Thank you so much again for the advice. We just did her second feeding and she took the milk alone but only if it was super warm. So for now i think she might take the milk alone. We are now giving her whole milk from the store. Is that okay? Mom no longer gives any milk because the two girls she still has have made it so that she does not produce enough for us to milk any. She does like fresh grass quite a bit. She has not been worked at all, so we may give her a little. Again thank you so much for the help.


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## MorgenAmera

Whole cow milk is ok as long as she doesn't react badly to it. An organic milk would be ideal just to make sure she isn't getting any bovine hormones or antibiotics but isn't strictly necessary as long as she is doing fine on the normal. Not getting the milk warm enough might have been the primary reason she was refusing it as it needs to be about the same heat as you would would give to a human baby, very warm but not hot. That could also have contributed somewhat to the bloat and indigestion too.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> Whole cow milk is ok as long as she doesn't react badly to it. An organic milk would be ideal just to make sure she isn't getting any bovine hormones or antibiotics but isn't strictly necessary as long as she is doing fine on the normal. Not getting the milk warm enough might have been the primary reason she was refusing it as it needs to be about the same heat as you would would give to a human baby, very warm but not hot. That could also have contributed somewhat to the bloat and indigestion too.


How would that cause bloating? And yes she's had whole cows milk for most of this once mom stopped giving milk.


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## MorgenAmera

Same reason it can cause bloat in humans, a kid's stomach is very sensitive and has a much more difficult time digesting if it has to warm it up themselves. This makes it sit in their rumen longer and gives the bacteria a longer chance to create excess gas as well as taking up a lot more energy to digest the same amount of food. Also, heating up the milk increases the scent and makes it more appealing.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> Same reason it can cause bloat in humans, a kid's stomach is very sensitive and has a much more difficult time digesting if it has to warm it up themselves. This makes it sit in their rumen longer and gives the bacteria a longer chance to create excess gas as well as taking up a lot more energy to digest the same amount of food. Also, heating up the milk increases the scent and makes it more appealing.


Oh okay. Yea see when she was taking it with applesauce she didn't like it warm she wanted it room temperature. Where as the milk alone she wanted it warm like a baby's milk.


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## ksalvagno

The milk actually needs to be a little warmer than for human babies.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> The milk actually needs to be a little warmer than for human babies.


Okay. Is there a certain temp range?


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## MorgenAmera

ksalvagno said:


> The milk actually needs to be a little warmer than for human babies.


Well, yeah goats do have a slightly higher temperature then humans so it make sense. I want to say that goat milk/formula is supposed to be around 100 degrees give or take? I haven't had to bottle feed for a while so I don't have it fresh in my mind.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> Well, yeah goats do have a slightly higher temperature then humans so it make sense. I want to say that goat milk/formula is supposed to be around 100 degrees give or take? I haven't had to bottle feed for a while so I don't have it fresh in my mind.


Okay.


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## MorgenAmera

I looked it up real quick and it said about 100-104f is about the best temperature. The best way to heat it up is to put the bottle or bowl of milk in a larger bowl of hot but not scalding water. It needs to be hot enough to be able to warm it up but not enough to cook it. When you don't have that much milk at a time it doesn't take very long to warm up.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> I looked it up real quick and it said about 100-104f is about the best temperature. The best way to heat it up is to put the bottle or bowl of milk in a larger bowl of hot but not scalding water. It needs to be hot enough to be able to warm it up but not enough to cook it. When you don't have that much milk at a time it doesn't take very long to warm up.


Yea i usually just heat it up 30 mLs at a time because she doesn't eat much more than that.


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## MorgenAmera

Yeah, even when I was heating up milk/formula for multiple kids and had a cup or so it still didn't usually take more than 10-15 minutes. 30cc probably takes 3-4 if that.


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## BekaNPeanut

Yea it's


MorgenAmera said:


> Yeah, even when I was heating up milk/formula for multiple kids and had a cup or so it still didn't usually take more than 10-15 minutes. 30cc probably takes 3-4 if that.


super quick. Except here's my next question, i went to go feed her again but her tummy is still super full, what do i do then?


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## MorgenAmera

If she wants to eat let her have as much as she wants, if she isn't then wait an hour and offer again. As she gets older she and starts gaining weight she shouldn't need to eat quite as often and will want to eat more at a time.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> If she wants to eat let her have as much as she wants, if she isn't then wait an hour and offer again. As she gets older she and starts gaining weight she shouldn't need to eat quite as often and will want to eat more at a time.


She ate willingly at eleven and hasn't wanted to eat since. That's why i'm a little concerned.


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## MorgenAmera

As long as she is not getting lethargic then she could probably go up to 6 hours or so without a big meal, especially if she is nibbling on hay and drinking water too. It might be that if her digestive system is doing better she is taking more time to actually digest and is not as needing of larger quantities quite as often. As long as she isn't overly bloaty or acting weaker than normal she should be fine. Is she acting fairly normal otherwise?


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> As long as she is not getting lethargic then she could probably go up to 6 hours or so without a big meal, especially if she is nibbling on hay and drinking water too. It might be that if her digestive system is doing better she is taking more time to actually digest and is not as needing of larger quantities quite as often. As long as she isn't overly bloaty or acting weaker than normal she should be fine. Is she acting fairly normal otherwise?


I don't really know what normal is. She's never been normal. She doesn't run around is always falling when she walks. She's not exactly the strongest and hasn't ever since I've had her.


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## MorgenAmera

Basically at this point as long as she isn't getting worse then it means she will be gradually getting better. Keep an eye out for degrading behavior but also be aware that with cases of malnutrition it can take days if not weeks before improvements become obvious. She won't simply start becoming energetic overnight, it will take a bit for her muscles to get stronger. Keep encouraging her to move around often, even if she falls over a lot. Don't over exert her but don't let her become immobile either. Keep an eye out for sluggishness since that is a good sign she is low on energy and needs to eat as soon as possible. But with my Nigerian dwarf goats they usually would be down to 3 or 4 feedings a day by 4 weeks old. She probably needs to eat more often then that since she is a bit behind but if she is getting more nutrition she probably won't need to eat it quite as often as she has been.


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## BekaNPeanut

MorgenAmera said:


> Basically at this point as long as she isn't getting worse then it means she will be gradually getting better. Keep an eye out for degrading behavior but also be aware that with cases of malnutrition it can take days if not weeks before improvements become obvious. She won't simply start becoming energetic overnight, it will take a bit for her muscles to get stronger. Keep encouraging her to move around often, even if she falls over a lot. Don't over exert her but don't let her become immobile either. Keep an eye out for sluggishness since that is a good sign she is low on energy and needs to eat as soon as possible. But with my Nigerian dwarf goats they usually would be down to 3 or 4 feedings a day by 4 weeks old. She probably needs to eat more often then that since she is a bit behind but if she is getting more nutrition she probably won't need to eat it quite as often as she has been.


Okay. I just I know she isn't getting the same amount that she should be when we feed her not so often. Just because she refuses it. And I don't want to starve her but her stomach feels full and really firm at times and it makes me nervous.


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## BekaNPeanut

Okay, update. Drastic drop from yesterday. She’s completely limp, can not stand or hold her head up. Her bodily fluids are running out of her, aka pee and poop. She’s peed five times since 8:30. She’s to out of it for me to feel comfortable trying to feed her. She is still alive but i dunno for how long.


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## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> I'm so sorry.


It's okay. I've said it since I started raising her that there was something internal, that we couldn't see, that was wrong. How long does it take? I mean for them to actually die? Is she just gonna sit here in misery for a couple of days?


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## ksalvagno

Hard to say. It could go on for a while.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> Hard to say. It could go on for a while.


Oh. okay.


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## MorgenAmera

That is unfortunate, really was hoping she would pull through since she seemed to be doing a bit better for a while there. Usually once a kid loses complete consciousness it ends very quickly, the longest I ever had a goat live after that point is about 6 hours but usually it is less than 1. Once they get to the point of complete lethargy and incontinence it usually is over within a day, maybe two. Just make her as warm and comfortable as possible, that is about all you can to at this point.


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## toth boer goats

I am sorry, it doesn't sound good.


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## BekaNPeanut

Update. Sadly, Peanut passed about half an hour ago. I am so thankful for all of you and the help and advice you have given me. Without you guys I probably wouldn’t have been able to keep her alive as long as I did. She’s no longer struggling and it’s bittersweet but I’m happy she’s in a better place. Thank you all for being so kind and helping. -Beka.


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## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry. You did everything you could for her.


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## BekaNPeanut

ksalvagno said:


> I'm so sorry. You did everything you could for her.


Thanks. I just wish i could have done more for her.


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## toth boer goats

I am so very sorry.


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## BekaNPeanut

toth boer goats said:


> I am so very sorry.


It's okay. Thank you.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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