# Seeking breed ideas for "dumping goats on an island"



## Little Johnny (Aug 15, 2011)

Curious if there's a breed of goats that might be most suitable for putting on an island in southern New England and providing them only a small amount of care. The island is not inhabited, is overgrown and over 50 acres in size, and the goal would be to have the goats work down the brush. There is shelter in various buildings/sheds. Meat and (especially) dairy production are not important.

Thoughts?

Thanks for any ideas.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Kikos or spanish maybe? Do you have an idea on protection for them? There has to be some type of animal on that island that can potentially eat them.

Now as for limited care, I'm sure a number of people do it, but it is not my forte. I enjoy checking on my goats everyday, making sure they are well. How are you going to know if a doe gives birth, if you put a buck out there as well? How will you find them? 50 acres of overgrown vegitation is just a beckon call for a goat to return to its wild instincts, and you may never find them again. (even if it is an island, they are sneaky.)


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

You know this reminds me of a show I watched the other day on Nat Geo Wild about the galapagos islands. A long time ago people introduced the goats to the islands and now they are eating up all the vegetation the native wildlife depend on. It was such a beautiful film...then at the very end it showed men in helicopters flying above the herds shooting them dead to save the natural wildlife. It really devistated me. They didn't even donate the meat to families in need!

Sorry this was so off subject :laugh: 

I would say you find a breed that is very hardy. I raise nubians so I know that wouldn't work. Spanish goats are very hardy...they're a mix breed I think...they have various different breeds in them...I could be wrong though. Good luck!


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

When I visited Norway as a kid, I remember goats were out on a little island that we visited... just the goats and the seabirds.. Wonder what kind they were????


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Just a hardy, easy to find, crossbreed style goat. Brush goats have lived this way for a long time. They will adapt fairly quickly. My choice would be Toggenburg crosses probably. They are very hardy and adapted for cold winters.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

arapawa? they were "dumped" on new zealand way back when and are an endangered breed.... let me know if you'd like me to try and find more info...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Goats can't just be dumped...they need care....I am not into that idea...without management of any kind or someone to check on them.... Also ...they cannot protect themselves....


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Is there a reason the Island needs to be cleared? 
50 acres is a lot of land and I agree the goats will regress to wild animals and be hard or impossible to catch.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

In theory it sounds awesome because I know they would be happy at first but what about worms, hoof care, or other medical needs. What if a doe has a problem labor. You and really take domestic goats and set them free. If you find some place with wild goats I would look into those. Its like taking a tiger who was born in captivity and setting it loose. Praying it will find food and live but stay away from humans. It just will not work.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Not sure if any breed would be good for this. :shrug:

Maybe if you were to find goats that were already basically wild, then maybe it could work. However, you're going to need a lot of goats to clear a 50 acre island unless it's really dry there. I just don't think they would be able to keep up with the plant growth...or like I said...you'd need one large herd of goats. 

Also, where is their water supply going to come from?


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

If they are all dewormed and healthy when left there I doubt they will have a big parasite issue. Goats in the wild (with plenty of browse and not confined to smaller pens) don't have nearly the parasite issues as goats in captivity. They will be eating brush, low branches and browse. Worm larvae cannot climb that high so they won't be reingesting them. I doubt the poster would be getting a bunch of pampered show goats to put out there...it would probably be goat heaven to most goats! Shelter, water and checking in on them occasionally to make sure all are in decent health....


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

That sounds really neat! No ideas though.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Maybe you could populate the island with wethers - then you wouldn't have to worry about labor issues, or having them 'take over' the island


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

PznIvyFarm said:


> Maybe you could populate the island with wethers - then you wouldn't have to worry about labor issues, or having them 'take over' the island


That's a great idea! Unless the poster plans on breeding? :shrug:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I would think that any animal would have to adapt to it's surroundings. They would probably die off quickly. Goats seem to be an animal that was meant for man to manage and from the very beginning, man has been doing that with goats and sheep. Now emus... that is different... they are stupid and can survive just about anything and it has nothing to do with their smarts. They are just adaptable creatures that do not need humans to manage them.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Off the coast of Southern Ca years and years ago people left goats wild. They are now what we call the San Clemente goats. Here is a little info... http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/sanclementegoat.html
One big difference is that Southern CA has much milder climate year round than New England.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have to disagree -- goats are very hardy when not put in an enclosed area where they have limited resources. Yes some natural selection will take place with the weaker goats not surviving. But in the end you will have a very hardy goat that can withstand a whole lot. 

Lots of goats run wild - just not much in the US if at all unless they are "strays" 

we humans think we have it all together and that without our help nothing will survive. But that is totally not the case. 

There are tons of wild herds of horses who survive quite well on their own without any help from humans


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

I do like the idea of using wethers. :thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Goat Song said:


> I do like the idea of using wethers. :thumb:


It depends on what the asker needs the for. If it is short term yes. If they intend to have them live there for many many years to come the wethers would slowly die off as they got old. No way to reproduce and sustain life with our bucks and does. :wink:


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

StaceyRoop said:


> I have to disagree -- goats are very hardy when not put in an enclosed area where they have limited resources. Yes some natural selection will take place with the weaker goats not surviving. But in the end you will have a very hardy goat that can withstand a whole lot.
> 
> Lots of goats run wild - just not much in the US if at all unless they are "strays"
> 
> ...


From what I have read in various sources over the last few years goats are one of the better species to allow to go feral with good results. I read of several islands where goats were released and have not only survived but thrived.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> I have to disagree -- goats are very hardy when not put in an enclosed area where they have limited resources. Yes some natural selection will take place with the weaker goats not surviving. But in the end you will have a very hardy goat that can withstand a whole lot.
> 
> Lots of goats run wild - just not much in the US if at all unless they are "strays"
> 
> ...


Good post! Totally agree!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I have to disagree -- goats are very hardy when not put in an enclosed area where they have limited resources. Yes some natural selection will take place with the weaker goats not surviving. But in the end you will have a very hardy goat that can withstand a whole lot.
> 
> Lots of goats run wild - just not much in the US if at all unless they are "strays"
> 
> ...


I hate to disagree here but I do...... The only problem with that is... many will die off...domesticated animals don't have all the know how...to go into survival mode...to be able to get that strong to survive.... We have medicated them... making them less likely to fight off natures way of running things...In the wild ...wethers don't exist and will develop issues........ Again domesticated...

Being on an island... there are limited feed and water sources...in which... may not have natural wormers or the right vitamins in the ground to keep a goat alive.... Also... the hooves if there are no Rocks (natural trimmers) they will get to a point of being crippled.... with no help.... It will also be an island of dead animals....which can cause other problems...if it gets into the water source... I'd like to know... how many animals died and how long it took to get goats back to natures way....for their own survival...  :2cents:


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

No doubt humans have interfered with domesticating animals. It is a matter of how you believe in the beginnings of this world. Man has a responsibility to manage all life on this planet. There have been many animals that have become extinct because this world is NOT perfect. It was in the beginning and now we are all wanting it to be perfect again and can not get that back. Many animals would not have survived if man had not intervened. There are not tons of wild herds of horses that survive or have survived easily on their own. Horses are another animal that needs man's intervening. There are tons of wild horses being rescued continually.. some from starvation and some from human abuse and some from natural disasters. I think it is a good idea to breed goats to become hardy by eliminating the weak. Nature will do this but then we as humans do have a responsibility to keep a balance to the best we can. Putting goats on an island like this could be a good thing if it had some management and a hardy breed emerged but still as with all wild and/or domesticated animals, we as humans still have to manage nature. Even the deer and other wild life have to be managed.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Seems to me the way to find out if this would work is to try it with a small herd of the toughest goats you can find. For that kind of climate a more northern goat might be better than something like spanish goats. Maybe toggenburgs are a good suggestion.

Jan


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

> providing them only a small amount of care. The island is not inhabited, is overgrown and over 50 acres in size, and the goal would be to have the goats work down the brush. There is shelter in various buildings/sheds.


see they would be getting some care but not much

I still stick with what I said though :thumbup:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I think the word "dumping" kinda makes me think of abandoning and just letting the animal fend for itself. So maybe a poor choice of words? If they are still going to get some basic care then I think most would be ok if you went with a real hardy breed and ones that aren't used to much human handling. :thumb:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I think the word "dumping" kinda makes me think of abandoning and just letting the animal fend for itself. So maybe a poor choice of words? If they are still going to get some basic care then I think most would be ok if you went with a real hardy breed and ones that aren't used to much human handling. :thumb:


 That is the way I read it and it made me...want to protect the goats.... :wink:


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Many goats have been bred for higher yields of meat, milk, etc, and usually never had to worry about finding their own food. Many have lost much of the hardiness and immunity that they orginally had, much like humans. It would require quite a bit of culling and breeding to have a large herd of 'self-supporting' goats. If we were no longer able to use electricity, chemical dewormers, purchase hay, grain and so forth, the goat population overall would be much lower than it currently is (same could be said for the human population as well). And it's not just hoof trimming, deworming, etc. That's generations of animals having food put in front of them. The wild browse would not be enough for some of these animals. 

I guess I would suggest the poster to purchase a large amount, even at a sale barn, and moniter how well they do on the island. Any that are failing to thrive should be culled as to not pass on the genetics.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

as was mentioned you wouldnt put your cream of the crop paper goats out there. And yes milk yield would suffer but since milk isnt an issue (as the original poster mentioned) I dont see that being a problem. 

They wouldnt look as sleek and shinny and "show ready" as our goats look - but they can survive is my point. 

Stick a city girl on a farm she may not like it - make her stay and she will learn to survive. She will loose her pretty fingernails and her polished nice clothes. Some put in this situation do very well, others dont adapt. (and the other way around, stick me in the city - I wont like it and I may feel like a fish out of the water but I would adapt and learn.)

Im agreeing it can be done but no not all goats are fit to be left to the wild.

I do tell people how much we have domesticated them - especially our show animals. And that they do need special care to be in tip top shape. But if you arent looking for that then all those supplements and TLC given isnt 100% needed 

I know some people just leave their goats out in a field and hardly touch them those I would almost consider wild.


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

You're very right Stacey. Some will thrive, some will not. I just think hardy animals as a whole have mostly gone wayside in today's agriculture. 

LOL about sticking you in the city. I lived in the city during the winter. Stayed in my apt. the entire darn time, almost got ran over too many times outside! I can say, I did NOT adapt and hope to never go back. Give me the woods any day.


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## Jane (Apr 17, 2011)

My neighbor was given a few meat goats for his daughter who wanted some goats. They were never handled and would not stay in an enclosure. They received no care from the humans- no food, water (even in the winter), medications, etc. They multiplied quickly. In the summer they were sleek and shiny, in winter they were furry like yak's. The only ones that died were the adults that got hit by cars and the newborn kids their dogs ate. They did just fine through our tough winters, even when the snow was deeper than they were tall.

I think if you stay away from any goat with papers, it could work out great!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Many animals would have become extinct if it had not been for man's intervention???? Maybe so . . . and it is also true that many animals would never have been endangered to begin with had it not been for man. Eagles for example . . .

Yes, man is supposed to manage the animals . . . but man has done a very very poor job of it.


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## Willow (Jun 12, 2011)

The small islands off massachusetts that I know have deer. I have seen deer swiming in the ocean from 1 island to the next. Deer may carry similar parasites to goat parasites...problem for the goats. Also the Islands off Mass. are over-run by ticks...both deer ticks and dog ticks ...could be a problem. I think you need a goat herder to live on the island with the goats...[some nice older teen]...or forget the idea. I agree that goats need care. Unless you happen to own this island I think that the authorities, Fish and Wildlife Service, etc. would have serious issues with creating a ferral goat population.

onder:


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

Just recently introduced to the San Clemente goats. They are wild looking for sure. Those or Spanish or Kiko would be a hardy choice.

I am curious as to why the OP isn't back on here?


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

I think those are warmer climate goats.

Jan


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## fatboyandmimi (Apr 26, 2011)

Pygmy wethers or bucks are your answer. They grow a heck of a good fuzzy winter goat, short cobby tough body type, easy to transport. They are voracious brush clearing machines. Big horns to accumulate the warmth of the sun will help them weather the winters. No grooming, tough little feet, not rare or hard to find or expensive; and even if you put out does and bucks the udders won't be dragging the ground like our dairy breeds. Pygs can handle what you need them to do.

If you are even looking at this thread anymore, after all the ethical discussion went careening off the topic highway. :laugh:


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

There are breeders with San Clemente goats in Oregon and Washington so I don't know that climate is such a big issue.


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## Little Johnny (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses and interesting ideas!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I'm a little suspicious of the sincerity of a poster named "little johnny".

For sure you should check and see if it is legal to do this.

I haven't seen too many on this forum, but there are goat people
that only have goats that thrive on limited care. I'd start looking
in Southern states like Texas, La.,Miss etc. They breed for goats
that don't need wormed, vaccinated, feet trimmed, or have trouble
giving birth without help. Search Spanish goats, Kikos, "brush goats"
etc. As has been already intimated, this is not a novel idea. I think
New Zealand had a large population of wild goats at one time. Probably
any breed would work eventually, but you would have better results if
you started with goats bred to be hardy. If you actually do this, please
keep us updated.


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