# Learning to critique



## margaret

Hi y'all :wave:
Me and Lindsey are doing this thread for people like us who want to learn to critique goats. Every day we will post pictures of one goat, and try to critique it ourselves. Then someone else (Sydney,Emma, Ariella etc.) will come behind us. Lindsey or someone else can post pictures on the days I can't. And all you people who already know how to critique please don't laugh at us to much 
If you want to post a goat on here PM me or Lindsey. 
I will start with my 4 year old doe Oreo.


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## Scottyhorse

People can PM me as well


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## Emzi00

So who's going to do a critique on Oreo first..? Lindsey? I had dibs on first shift.


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## margaret

I’m gonna try this.
Pros:Nice long body.
Long rump
Fair fore udder attachment.
Good Extension of brisket
Strong level topline.
Cons: Weak pasterns. 
Rear udder attachments need to be higher and wider
Rump is rather steep
How did I do? I’m sure I left a lot out


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## thegoatgirl

LOL! I'll just go ahead and do her again 

Pros:
Long, fairly level
Good body capacity
Good feet and legs
Long neck
Good dairy character
Nice teat size and shape
Good rear udder

Cons:
Severely ewe necked
Fore udder is very short and weak
Neck could be leaner
Needs better angulation
Rump could be leveler and longer
Rump needs to be wider
Weak pasterns


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## Emzi00

Darn, Ariella beat me to it, care if I do it again too? :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Wait like 20 minutes for me Emma!!!  I'm slow...you know that 


Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Emzi00

Sure, I'll wait.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And I'll just come in at the end of every goat


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## NubianFan

Oreo is a perfect name for her, is she sweet too? And good with milk  
Main fault I see with her is weak rear udder attachments. 
Her rump could be more level
And her neck could tie in a lot better she is as someone else said ewe necked. Otherwise I like her. She has nice strong legs, and a big body so nice capacity. She obviously has milk!


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## COgoatLover25

Ok, I know I missed a few things  but here's what I got 

Pros-

Fairly level top line 

Good depth of barrel

Nice front legs

Nice brisket? Hard for me to see in that pic

Nice sized teats

Cons-

Ewe necked 

toes out in rear? Or am I seeing something that isn't there?

A little posty in back

Weak pasterns

Poor foreudder 

Weakened attachments in rear

***winces for correction***
:lol: 





Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Emzi00

Pros: 
Good length of body
Decent depth
Good body capacity
Long, lean neck
Nice straight front legs
Pasterns are okay, could be more upright, not bad
Long enough rump
Thurls are good
Decent extension of brisket
Color conforms to breed :shades:

Cons:
Rear legs could use a touch more angulation
Neck could blend better into brisket and withers
Chest floor could blend better into heart girth
Steep rump
Might toe out a touch in the rear, hard to tell

For her udder:
Decent capacity, could use more though
Teats are a nice size
Fore could use more extension and blend better
Could use a stronger MSL
Decent height in the rear, but needs to be wider. Needs to be more of an upside down U than upside down V. 

Meh, what'd I forget Lacie?


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## COgoatLover25

Ok, Emma  I have a Q
What are thurls?


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## Trickyroo

Ok , I'll jump on board here 
All I know for sure is : she's a doe and has plenty of milk 

( I couldnt resist )


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## COgoatLover25

Trickyroo said:


> Ok , I'll jump on board here
> All I know for sure is : she's a doe and has plenty of milk
> 
> ( I couldnt resist )


:lol: That's all you got? hahahaha, I thought I was terrible!


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## thegoatgirl

^^^ :rofl:


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## margaret

Very nice Laura, good job.:laugh:
Alright Lacie, unless someone else wants to try you can critique her. Next I think I’ll post my future herdsire.


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## margaret

And yes Laura, she does have a lot of milk. One of my top 3 producers. I'm not recording production right now, lost my scale but I think she was doing 12 lbs a day 2 weeks ago.


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## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> Ok, Emma  I have a Q
> What are thurls?


The muscle-things on their rear legs(I'm great at explaining), they should be set 2/3 of the way between hips and pins, and should be level from thurl to thurl. I can try explaining better if you need to, or we can get Lacie to explain it better.. :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> The muscle-things on their rear legs(I'm great at explaining), they should be set 2/3 of the way between hips and pins, and should be level from thurl to thurl. I can try explaining better if you need to, or we can get Lacie to explain it better.. :lol:


That didn't help...:lol:


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## Emzi00

Per Lacie: "Thurls are a bone that is between the hips and pins, the long muscle that runs from the hips to the pins is the thurl muscle. The bone can be felt about 1/3 of the way to the hip bones , you can also kinda see where it sticks out on a clipped goat." 

Yep, she's great at explaining, me not so much. :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Yeah, I sorta got that :lol:


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## margaret

Lacie?


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## COgoatLover25

She'll probably come in later 


Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## margaret

Time to post another goat.
But my computer won't upload pictures.


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## Trickyroo

Just when I thought i was getting good at this…..:sad:


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## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> Time to post another goat.
> But my computer won't upload pictures.


You can PM them to me if you would like 

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## margaret

Lindsey, you can take any pictures off my website and post them on here. You could do my herd queen, she is at the top of the Senior Doe Page. 
My website link is in my signature.


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## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> Lindsey, you can take any pictures off my website and post them on here. You could do my herd queen, she is at the top of the Senior Doe Page.
> My website link is in my signature.


Ok, just a sec 

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## COgoatLover25

Here is Tansy-Magaret's 8yr old Alpine doe 














Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Emzi00

Someone should come take a stab at it and judge her, I'm getting restless... :lol:


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## ptgoats45

I'll give it a go if you don't mind 

Pros:

Long, level topline
Good depth in the heart girth
Decent brisket
Front legs are placed underneath her
Fairly level rump

Cons:
Needs more depth in the rear barrel, from front to back she should get deeper
Neck could be a little longer and a little higher set
Could be more level from thurl to thurl, you can see she kind of has a high dorsal process
Could have a little more angulation to the rear legs
Rear udder could be higher and wider, more rounded instead of v shaped
Stronger medial
More centrally placed teats, teats could also be smaller
Can't really tell much about her foreudder but I would assume it is a little loose

Can't really see her feet but it does look like she is a bit weak on her front pasterns, rear pasterns look good though.


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## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Someone should come take a stab at it and judge her, I'm getting restless... :lol:


Ok, I'll take a "stab" at it :lol: Just don't laugh tooooo much haha 

Pros-

Nice level topline

ok brisket?

Rump is pretty level

Cons-

Needs more brisket?

Could use more depth in barrel

Rear legs could be more angular

Weak pasterns all around , I think?

Neck could be longer

Teats look too big...

Is her udder uneven or is it the way she's standing?


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## COgoatLover25

Oh Emma!!! Where art thou Emma! :lol:


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## Emzi00

Eh, I'll judge her in 20 minutes... :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Eh, I'll judge her in 20 minutes... :lol:


Meanie !


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Sorry I meant to do this yesterday but I had a graduation party thing to go to. 
Now I'm sorry if I missed something, kinda a bit off today, and overly critical of _everything_ today!

So for doe #1.

*Cons:*
Needs a longer neck
Neck could blend better into the withers and shoulders
She is ewe necked
Needs more brisket
Could stand more uphill
Would like her to have more prominent withers
She has a bit of a "pinched" look in the heart girth, so I would like her to be a bit deeper in the girth with some smoother blending
Could be more feminine
Needs a bit more angularity and dairyness
Slightly weak pasturns, and they could be a bit more upright
Could be just a touch longer bodied
Steep rump
Could be deeper into the rear barrel
I'd like to move those thruls forward just a touch
Point of shoulder is a touch sharp

*Pros:*
Strong in the chine
Strong topline
Long rump
Leanness 
Chest floor blends well into the girth, but like I mentioned, she looks a bit "pinched" there
Good body capacity
Nice straight forelegs
Good angulation in the rear legs, could use a touch more angle
Neck blends well into the brisket
Rump appears nice and wide
Nice legs, I don't really see any toe in or toe out
Nice flank
Tight shoulders

*Udder Cons:*
Needs to be higher in the escutcheon
Needs a wider, rounder arch
Needs tighter attachments in the rear
Needs a stronger fore udder
Needs more udder depth

*Udder Pros:*
Nice medial suspensory, maybe a bit too defined for my taste
Nice defined teats
Good teat length
Nice teat diameter
Udder half size is even
Decent length of fore, could be longer, and smoother however


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## Emzi00

Dang Lacie, you must really be in a judgy mood, that was awesome. :lol:


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## Emzi00

Do I still have to do it if Lacie's here? Because I really don't want to... :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

No Emma, you have to


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## Trickyroo

Thank goodness someone judged her ! I thought I was going to have to do it :eyeroll:


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## Emzi00

But Ma, I don't want to! 

Fine give me a minute.... or ten.


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## Trickyroo

Emzi00 said:


> But Ma, I don't want to!
> 
> Fine give me a minute.... or ten.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Trickyroo said:


> Thank goodness someone judged her ! I thought I was going to have to do it :eyeroll:


:ROFL: :slapfloor:
I thought you did really good on the last one!


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## Emzi00

Pros:
Good length of body
Long, lean dairy neck
Straight front legs
Nice angulation in the rear legs
Neck blends well into withers
Neck blends well into brisket
Chest floor blends well into girth, into barrel, all that jazz
Fairly long level rump
Strong chine
Strong topline
Doesn't look to toe out

Cons:
Needs more brisket
Pasterns look weak
Needs more depth, at point of elbow, especially into the rear barrel
Needs to be more upstanding
Needs more dairy-ness and femininity
Her face needs more something or another, brain fart. (_help me, Lacie_ :lol: )

Udder:
Needs a to be higher and wider, seriously lacking in rear attachments
Teats are too big, need to be more centered
Fore could be longer, more smoothly blended
Good depth
Decent medial
Eh, add anything else I forgot, it's late, I'm tired. :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Emzi00 said:


> _help me, Lacie_


........... something suddenly came up!...... :ROFL: :slapfloor: :lol:


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## Emzi00

Meh, you're no help then. 
When I'm not half asleep and remember, I might let y'all know what I was trying to say.


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## margaret

I know I'm late but i didn't look at anybody else's posts before I did this.
Pros:
level topline
Good extension of brisket
long,fairly level rump
Cons:
extremely weak rear udder attachments.
You can't see this in the picture because she's dry but her fore udder attachments are just as bad
Weak pasterns
Lacks depth
That's all I see right now.
Btw this doe does not reside at Merry Oaks Farm for showing purposes but she is a good ole gal and has definitely earned her keep. She also is still milking fairly well and the milk tastes great


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## margaret

Time for another goat. Stupid computer won't upload pictures. Lindsey could you get pictures of my Grade yearling or one of my doelings from my website?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Sorry I meant to do this yesterday but I had a graduation party thing to go to.
> Now I'm sorry if I missed something, kinda a bit off today, and overly critical of _everything_ today!
> 
> So for doe #1.
> 
> *Cons:*
> Needs a longer neck
> Neck could blend better into the withers and shoulders
> She is ewe necked
> Needs more brisket
> Could stand more uphill
> Would like her to have more prominent withers
> She has a bit of a "pinched" look in the heart girth, so I would like her to be a bit deeper in the girth with some smoother blending
> Could be more feminine
> Needs a bit more angularity and dairyness
> Slightly weak pasturns, and they could be a bit more upright
> Could be just a touch longer bodied
> Steep rump
> Could be deeper into the rear barrel
> I'd like to move those thruls forward just a touch
> Point of shoulder is a touch sharp
> 
> *Pros:*
> Strong in the chine
> Strong topline
> Long rump
> Leanness
> Chest floor blends well into the girth, but like I mentioned, she looks a bit "pinched" there
> Good body capacity
> Nice straight forelegs
> Good angulation in the rear legs, could use a touch more angle
> Neck blends well into the brisket
> Rump appears nice and wide
> Nice legs, I don't really see any toe in or toe out
> Nice flank
> Tight shoulders
> 
> *Udder Cons:*
> Needs to be higher in the escutcheon
> Needs a wider, rounder arch
> Needs tighter attachments in the rear
> Needs a stronger fore udder
> Needs more udder depth
> 
> *Udder Pros:*
> Nice medial suspensory, maybe a bit too defined for my taste
> Nice defined teats
> Good teat length
> Nice teat diameter
> Udder half size is even
> Decent length of fore, could be longer, and smoother however


I wish people would do this to MY goats! 

Margaret, great job at getting them all do to this!


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## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> Time for another goat. Stupid computer won't upload pictures. Lindsey could you get pictures of my Grade yearling or one of my doelings from my website?


Surely  which one?

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Alright, doe #2

*Cons:*
Slightly steep rump
Short neck
Lacks some body length
Needs some more brisket
Can't really tell to well, but it seems like she has very weak pasturns
I'd like to bring those thurls up just a touch
Could stand more uphill at the withers
Could have a bit sharper, more prominent withers
Could have a bit more depth into the rear barrel
Has a very blocky, masculine appearance to the face
Lacks femininity 
Lacks the long bone pattern

*Pros:*
Good blending from the neck into the brisket
Necks blends well into the shoulder
Good blending from the chest floor into the heart girth
Smooth , tight shoulders
Good angulation in the rear legs
Strong, level topline
Good strength in the chine
Long rump
Fair body capacity
Nice straight forelegs 
Nice rear leg set

*Udder Cons:*
Very narrow in the escutcheon
Weak rear attachments
Could have a stronger medial
Could have a longer, tighter attached fore udder
Could use some tighter lateral attachments
Teats are too plumb, and uneven in size
Could be more capacious
Needs more width and roundness to the arch

*Udder Pros:*
I will commend her for her even half size, smooth texture, and teat length.


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## COgoatLover25

Lacie, you're awesome 


Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## margaret

COgoatLover25 said:


> Surely  which one?
> 
> Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


Don't matter


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## COgoatLover25

Ok, here is Merry Oaks Spruce-Margaret's grade yearling 














Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## margaret

Thanks lindsey


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## margaret

Lindsey you better go ahead and do her, I probably won't be able to get on here since it looks like Rebekah will kid any time.


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## Emzi00

Once Lindsey does her I will.


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## margaret

Pros:Strong Chine
Strong pasterns
Nice Brisket
Good sharp withers
Neck blends well into withers
Cons:Steep rump
Lacks width.
Lacks depth
Lacks body capacity.
These 3 things are things my buck excels in so hoping for a good outcome on her kids next year.
Steep rump
Her chine needs to be more level
Needs a longer leaner neck.


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## COgoatLover25

Cons-

neck could be longer

posty?

short, steep rump

needs more depth


Pros-

good brisket


That's all I got...


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## Emzi00

I'll probably critique her tomorrow.... I don't feel like doing it now. :lol: Lindsey has learned a bit :chin:


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## Scottyhorse

Pros:
Sharp withers
Fairly nice neck, could be a tad leaner, but not bad  
Straight front legs
Smooth blending throughout 
For a yearling, her body capacity isn't bad  
She's got a nice face. 

Cons:
Lacking brisket
Topline could be more level and uphill
Weak Pasterns
Needs more body length, as well as length over the topline. 
Rump is steep, but fairly long. 
Lacking rear leg angulation. 
I'd like to give her a bit more femininity and refinement.


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## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> I'll probably critique her tomorrow.... I don't feel like doing it now. :lol: Lindsey has learned a bit :chin:


Uh huh, I seriously don't see where I've learned :lol:

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Can I post a doe?


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## COgoatLover25

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Can I post a doe?


Margaret hasn't posted one yet and she might not get on today so yes 

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Emzi00

WAIT, I need to critique the other first.... :lol:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Cool! Here's Promie 

http://jfdairygoats.weebly.com/longvu-rh-all-ears-here.html


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Emzi00 said:


> WAIT, I need to critique the other first.... :lol:


Oops! Lol


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## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> WAIT, I need to critique the other first.... :lol:


Well hurry up! :lol:

Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## Emzi00

For Spruce:

Pros:
Good body capacity
Decent depth for her age
Sharp withers
Strong chine
Moderately strong pasterns
Correct bite
Good blending throughout

Cons:
Needs more length of body
Short steep rump
Needs to be more upstanding
Needs more angulation in the rear legs, and I'd like to see straighter front legs
Lacks dairyness
Needs more brisket
Needs a longer, leaner neck
I'd like to see a longer bone pattern
Needs more femininity, especially about her face
I'd like to see flatter bone, too.

Yeah, probably missed some stuff... Oh well. :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

This may come as a shock, Skyla, but Im not too fond of LaMancha's  However I think her face in the second pic is priceless :ROFL: :slapfloor:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> This may come as a shock, Skyla, but Im not too fond of LaMancha's  However I think her face in the second pic is priceless :ROFL: :slapfloor:


Oh yes, very shocked  lol!
Hehe! She was smiling for the camera  lol


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## margaret

Let's keep this thread moving y'all, Lindsey you should critique Skyla's doe.


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## Trickyroo

Yeah Lindsey , start critiquing or else I'm going to have to do it :shrug::wave:


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## Emzi00

Lindsey, wait so Laura has to do it.... :chin:


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## Trickyroo

Emzi00 said:


> Lindsey, wait so Laura has to do it.... :chin:


Your a funny one , aren't you :lol:


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## Emzi00

I have my moments. 

After this doe, I think we need a buck.


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## Trickyroo

Well , ok , here goes 

Thats Promise , a LaMancha doe , gorgeous , beautiful , BFF to Hallie , partner in crime to Hallie and all around a great gal who also has a great smile :hugs:


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## Trickyroo

HA , top that :wahoo:


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## Trickyroo

Im sorry , sometimes i can't help myself  
But i am learning from this thread , so keep it going


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## Emzi00

I'm dying over here...... :slapfloor: Great critique Laura. :thumbup: :ROFL:


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## Trickyroo

Well , its all true :lol: You gotta give me that :lol:


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## Emzi00

I don't know, that smile is kind of extremely creepy... :lol:


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## Trickyroo

Is not ! You just don't have Manchi fever like we do


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## Trickyroo

Alright , I won't bud in anymore  
Carry on…...


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## Trickyroo

cricket&#8230;&#8230;..cricket&#8230;&#8230;..cricket&#8230;.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

HAHA!! Love it Laura!! Too funny! :laugh:


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## margaret

I gots me a buck Emma just gotta get some pictures of him.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I have pictures of my buck if y'all want me to post them


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## Trickyroo

Skyla , my critique for Promise is spot on


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## Trickyroo

margaret said:


> I gots me a buck Emma just gotta get some pictures of him.


Well post him !!!!! I need to learn just a bit more about structure 
I promise , i'll shuddup now:clap:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I'd say so!!  Now you have to do Hallie


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## Trickyroo

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> I'd say so!!  Now you have to do Hallie


Same critique for Baby Hal :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Man! Your good at this!  :lol:


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## Trickyroo

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Man! Your good at this!  :lol:


:hug::hammer::-D:-D:-D told you i was getting better , lol.
I better shuddup before someone throws something at me :smile:


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## Emzi00

Trickyroo said:


> :hug::hammer::-D:-D:-D told you i was getting better , lol.
> I better shuddup before someone throws something at me :smile:


*snow balls, ice chunks, and algebra books flying*


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## Trickyroo

Emzi00 said:


> *snow balls, ice chunks, and algebra books flying*


Yep , and I felt everyone of them :thumb: But i did duck when the algebra book came at me&#8230;&#8230;I HATED that subject :smile:


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## Trickyroo

Oops , zip it , i know….:doh:


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## COgoatLover25

I actually think your critiques are the funniest Laura :ROFL:


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## margaret

i would grab little sister and go take pictures of Elder but I have to stay here 'cause my baby brother is still sleeping and Mom went to get something at the store.
I'm picking up a Nigerian herdsire tomorrow but i would have to clip before getting pics for this thread, he's a shaggy boy.
Btw, does anyone know anything about this buck?
Buffalo Creek Farm CC Nigal.
He's AGS registered.


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## Emzi00

I know that he is furry. :greengrin:

Want me to put up pictures of my buck?


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## margaret

Sure


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## margaret

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Cool! Here's Promie
> 
> http://jfdairygoats.weebly.com/longvu-rh-all-ears-here.html


Pros: Long rump
Level rump
Nice sharp withers
good brisket
strong pasterns
Long lean neck
Cons: No ears
Topline should be more level.
That's what I see now and I don't want to make stuff up


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## margaret

I need some help with dairy character. 
Emma or Lacie could you post pictures of a doe with good dairy character and tell us what you're looking for in a goat with good dairy character?
i think that might help me.


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## Trickyroo

margaret said:


> Pros: Long rump
> Level rump
> Nice sharp withers
> good brisket
> strong pasterns
> Long lean neck
> Cons: No ears
> Topline should be more level.
> That's what I see now and I don't want to make stuff up


Cons: no ears&#8230;..:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL: Good one Margaret :hi5:


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## margaret

^^Thanks:lol:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

So that her only con?! I'll take it!!  (though it's a pro on my end  )


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## margaret

Emzi00 said:


> I know that he is furry. :greengrin:


Thanks a lot Emma, I hadn't noticed.:lol:


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## margaret

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> So that her only con?! I'll take it!!  (though it's a pro on my end  )


Well I'm sure there are others i just didn't see any.


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## COgoatLover25

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been keeping up on this thread...Give me just a few minutes to try to do Skyla's doe


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## COgoatLover25

Skyla's doe



Pros-

Nice brisket

Uphill

Long, level rump

Good angularity 

Fairly level top line

Nice depth in barrel?

Nice neck

Cute face :lol:



Cons-


Toes out in the rear?


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## Trickyroo

Promise's tiny little ears are beautiful


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Lindsay, no, she doesn't toe out any.. 

I agree Laura!  Hallie's are better though!  she lets me play with them! :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Lindsay, no, she doesn't toe out any..
> 
> I agree Laura!  Hallie's are better though!  she lets me play with them! :lol:


Well, I couldn't see it real well!!! :lol:


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Pictures are hard sometimes


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Emma said I could put the buck pic up 
Here is peep


----------



## NubianFan

He has an angular booty


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

NubianFan said:


> He has an angular booty


:slapfloor:


----------



## NubianFan

LOL hey I am tired that was my "technical description" as technical as it gets with an aching back and tired legs...


----------



## GoatyGoatGal

Ok, I'm not sure how to upload two pics at once, so here we go!

Name: Feather
Hight: 18"
Wight: 30?

Edit: She's a Pygmy, and kidded about 3 months.

I'm milking her now, this pic is her about a hour after!
(Sorry, she's chewing in the pic, couldn't get her to stand still!)


----------



## Emzi00

Is she a pygmy? That'd change how we should look at her...


----------



## Emzi00

For Peep:

*Pros:*
Smooth blending throughout
Nice straight front legs
Nice front end assembly
Long lean dairy neck
Upstanding
Strong topline
Long, level rump
Nice width between the hocks and through the hips and pins
Loving the arch in the escutcheon 
Thurls look good
Decent length of body, though it wouldn't hurt to see more
Very dairy
Long bone pattern

*Cons:*
I would like to see stronger, more upright pasterns
Would also like more depth at the point of elbow, but is decent into the barrel
His rear legs have too much angulation for my liking
Wish he was more masculine 

Overall he's looking very nice.


----------



## NubianFan

You forgot angular booty


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> I need some help with dairy character.
> Emma or Lacie could you post pictures of a doe with good dairy character and tell us what you're looking for in a goat with good dairy character?
> i think that might help me.


I don't have any pictures right now(not on my tablet), but skyla's buck is a great example. 
You want them angular and open, with strong yet refined bone, showing freedom from coarseness. You want a long lean neck that smoothly blends into the shoulders, and a clean-cut jaw and brisket. Also prominent and wedge shaped withers with the dorsal process rising slightly above the shoulder blades. You want flat, flinty ribs that are widely spaced and long, with the lower rear ribs angling towards the flank. You want a deep yet arched flank that is free of excess tissue. You want thighs that in side profile are moderately incurving from pinbones to stifles, and from the rear are wide apart and clean, being highly arched in the escutcheon and out-curving. The skin should be thin and pliable, with soft lustrous hair.
That help any? Because if it didn't, we need Lacie... :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

NubianFan said:


> You forgot angular booty





Emzi00 said:


> For Peep:
> 
> *Pros:*
> Smooth blending throughout
> Nice straight front legs
> Nice front end assembly
> Long lean dairy neck
> Upstanding
> Strong topline
> Long, level rump
> Nice width between the hocks and through the hips and pins
> Loving the arch in the escutcheon
> Thurls look good
> Decent length of body, though it wouldn't hurt to see more
> Very dairy
> Long bone pattern
> 
> *Cons:*
> I would like to see stronger, more upright pasterns
> Would also like more depth at the point of elbow, but is decent into the barrel
> His rear legs have too much angulation for my liking
> Wish he was more masculine
> 
> Overall he's looking very nice.


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emma... You're supposed to let us do Peep FIRST! :lol:


----------



## NubianFan

Emzi00 said:


>


But you didn't use proper technical terminology it is supposed to be *angular booty* :roll:


----------



## GoatyGoatGal

Oops, sorry I didn't say, yes she is a Pygmy! 

(Sorry about posting before you were done with Peep, I didn't know!  )


----------



## Emzi00

Alright, someone else do Peep so we can move onto the next doe.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Hey, can I post pics of my doe's? (ADGA nubian's and oberhasli's)
I'm not at all good at the detail's! (did I spell that right )
Let Me Know! (can't wait to see whay Ya'll think of em'!!! :hug:


----------



## Emzi00

Once we get caught up with these last two, then sure thing! It's great to help people learn... and yeah, spelled it correctly.  Once we get caught up, just post them one at a time... it may take a while for everyone to get around to it.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

It will not let me on to the last page so I don't know if you are done with your "current" goat! Sorry!
This is "Bern Oberhasli Sticky HoneyBun" she is now 3 months old (but was a premi & the only one to survive out of triplet doelings at birth )
I **Think** she's gonna be a show stopper (her Dam & GrandDam have GOOD attachments and show records)


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

OMG!! It just let me see what you posted! oops (i'm 13 and sometimes computers just dont want to work for me :/ )
Sorry for the mess in Honeybun's pics
Just ignore me untill your done


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Oh and I know my lil sister is not very experienced in setting them up but she tries!


----------



## margaret

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Emma said I could put the buck pic up
> Here is peep


Nice buck Skyla.
I am still learning about dairy character but i see what Emma was saying about angularity I really like him.
It's probably the picture but his legs could hold him more upright with stronger feet and pasterns.
He should have a better brisket extension.
He has a strong back and a long fairly level rump.
He also has a long lean neck. Did you show him last month Skyla?


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> It will not let me on to the last page so I don't know if you are done with your "current" goat! Sorry!
> This is "Bern Oberhasli Sticky HoneyBun" she is now 3 months old (but was a premi & the only one to survive out of triplet doelings at birth )
> I **Think** she's gonna be a show stopper (her Dam & GrandDam have GOOD attachments and show records)


Nice doe!!!
I can't wait to get to her, she's beautiful


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Oh and I know my lil sister is not very experienced in setting them up but she tries!


My lil sister helps me take pictures too, usually i have her take the pictures instead of hold the goats, she's only 6 and my does are WAY too big for her to setup properly


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Margaret, Thank You!!
She's my baby (or one of them :shades no way your getting her!!!!!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

margaret said:


> Nice buck Skyla.
> 
> I am still learning about dairy character but i see what Emma was saying about angularity I really like him.
> 
> It's probably the picture but his legs could hold him more upright with stronger feet and pasterns.
> 
> He should have a better brisket extension.
> 
> He has a strong back and a long fairly level rump.
> 
> He also has a long lean neck. Did you show him last month Skyla?


No, buck shows are a bit far from me.. So I just stick with showing my does for now.. I do plan to do LA next year though


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Ooo! I can't wait to see her "pros & Cons"! (like I said ignore me... I ge excited when it comes to goat!)


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Margaret, Thank You!!
> She's my baby (or one of them :shades no way your getting her!!!!!


I meant get around to critiquing her


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Oops!


----------



## margaret

I wouldn't mind a goat like that though
She wouldn't fit very well in my herd since i have Alpines but I hope i have some kids that turn out that good.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Thank You 
I worked hard getting my lines... my WHOLE kid crop was polled doelings!! not one unpolled or boy!!!


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Peep ~

*Pros-*

Straight front legs

Ok length of body

Long and level rump

Nice neck

Uphill

Very angular

*Cons-*

needs more depth?

I can't think of anything else :chin:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

You forgot a couple things... :shades:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Yeah, I know...I'm still not very good at this :shades:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well, if you know you forgot things, what are the things you forgot?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Tough question...I don't know, what did I forget?

Could use more brisket?


----------



## Emzi00

:applaud: Lacie, you'd make a great teacher. :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Eh, we have to do the Pygmy now.... unless anyone else wants to give Peep a shot.  I'm still not great with pygmies...


----------



## COgoatLover25

I didn't know you could critique Pygmies! :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Um, yeah. I can't do it well though. I looked at the scorecard once for them and did a critique on one, but it probably wasn't all that great. :lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

I'll just stick with **trying** to learn dairy goat conformation for now if it's all the same  :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Well, if I ever want to be a judge, I at least need a basic understanding of pygmies.... you know, county fairs and stuff..... Okay I'm going to pull up the scorecard and post it here if anyone else wants to try...

Here: http://www.npga-pygmy.com/judges/FaultingSheet.pdf


----------



## Emzi00

Okay, this isn't going to be an impressive critique or anything.... :lol:

She has a strong level topline, with the correct slope to her rump. She blends fairly well throughout, though I'd like to see her smoother from the chest floor into the heart girth. Her cannon bones are appropriately short, though I'd like to see her legs overall shorter. I'd like to see stronger pasterns. I'd like a shorter, more muscled neck. I'd also like a shorter, more dished head with more expression. She appears to have a nice broad and deep muzzle. I'd like to see her have more depth of body, at the point of elbow back into the barrel. She has a nice mammary, two functioning teats, well blended in the fore, and well balanced.

Okay, I'm done. :lol:


----------



## margaret

glassvilledairygoats said:


> thank you
> i worked hard getting my lines... My whole kid crop was polled doelings!! Not one unpolled or boy!!!


wow!!!


----------



## Emzi00

Hey Margaret, give that pygmy a shot... I'm feeling lonely...


----------



## Scottyhorse

Pretty good job on the Pygmy, Emma  I should upload some pictures of my pygmy doe for reference. Too bad she isn't papered, she would do AWESOME at the npga national show I bet. She knows it too, she acts like a princess :lol:

I do have to say though, she looks too tall, and her face doesn't look right for a pygmy :chin:


----------



## Emzi00

Sydney, thanks for reassuring me that I didn't completely botch that... :lol:


----------



## Scottyhorse

:lol: No, you didn't


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Margeret, 
Yep, thats what everybody says... I wonder why onder:


----------



## fishin816

Ok I am going to post a picture of one of my goats, and I need it critiqued please!!!!








my precious little buck, Dylan (not my own picture)








and my doe, Cocoa (horrible picture).

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cade, you're supposed to ask first


----------



## fishin816

Could someone PLEASE critique my goats! (Do I have to say who…?) 


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Scottyhorse

No, you need to ask to post the picture... :lol:

Lindsey, I am going to send you a couple pictures of my nigerian dwarf buck today or tomorrow to post when you are able


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

When you ladies are done could you please critique "honeybun" ASAP?
Let me know! (sorry I'm being impatient!) :fireworks:


----------



## Scottyhorse

For the nice little Ober doeling:

Pros:
Super long!
Love her front and rear leg set
Level, long topline
Lean neck
Great blending from neck to withers, chest floor to girth, etc. 
Upright pasterns
Tight toes
Uphill build
Tight shoulders
Tight withers
Very pretty head and face
Getting really picky, I like where her ears are placed 

Cons:
Looks to toe out in the rear
Lacking brisket
Rump is pretty short, but will likely lengthen as she matures like my bucks' did
I would like to see more depth and spring of rib, but again, may come with age and freshenings


----------



## Emzi00

If you're getting picky, you forgot "Color conforms to breed" :slapfloor:


----------



## Scottyhorse

Yes, I did :laugh:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Scottyhorse said:


> No, you need to ask to post the picture... :lol:
> 
> Lindsey, I am going to send you a couple pictures of my nigerian dwarf buck today or tomorrow to post when you are able


OK, you can do that if you want to  
Or you can just post'em now and they can get done after everybody else ?


----------



## Scottyhorse

I dont have the pictures yet


----------



## COgoatLover25

OK  just post them when you have them then


----------



## Emzi00

Hey Lindsey, go judge the Obie so I can.....


----------



## COgoatLover25

Ok...it might take me a few minutes ....or more......................


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

ScottyHorse,
Thank You! the pics of honeybun are not very good but if you look from above, (or the back/front) oh yes she got her moms spring of rib alright!!!


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> ScottyHorse,
> Thank You! the pics of honeybun are not very good but if you look from above, (or the back/front) oh yes she got her moms spring of rib alright!!!


Oh and if anyone else can leave a "list" on her also I would be thrilled!


----------



## Emzi00

Once Lindsey does I will. Want to give her a chance. She's still learning..


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For the Ober doeling ~

*Pros-*

Long and level top line

nice rump

Uphill

good length of body

Good angularity

lean neck

Seems uniform throughout build

*Cons-*

Needs more brisket


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Thank You.
I'm glad that she is good in your standards as well as my own! (sometimes I get carried away with an animals Sweetness other then body!)
I don't think I'll have a problem finding a buck that will improve that brisket (I have him right here!)


----------



## margaret

People, I'm next!!!!!!
I've been waiting or a LONG time to put my buck on here, I finally got pictures. No more pictures after this until i put Elder on. One goat at a time.


----------



## goatlady1314

How is this working?


----------



## Emzi00

For the Obie doeling:

*Pros:*
Strong rear pasterns, but I'd like the front ones stronger
Nice straight front legs
Good angulation in the rear legs
Good length of body
Long, lean neck
Thurls look good
Chest floor blends well into girth, girth on back....
Strong topline
Fairly uphill
Looks to have good width between her hocks

*Cons:*
Neck could be more smoothly blended into the withers and the little bit of brisket she has
Lacks power in the front end
I'd like those front pasterns more upright
Could use more depth at the point of elbow, and on back into the barrel
Could use a longer, more level rump


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Emma,
Thanks! 
If you were in my position, would you keep her or sell her? (she's polled also)


----------



## Scottyhorse

I'd personally keep her, she is a nice doeling. Most oberhasli's need A LOT of work, and she looks very nice  What do the udders behind her look like?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Udders are AMAZING (best attached ones I've ever seen) I MAY be able to post a pic soon of her "relatives" :think: udders


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> It will not let me on to the last page so I don't know if you are done with your "current" goat! Sorry!
> This is "Bern Oberhasli Sticky HoneyBun" she is now 3 months old (but was a premi & the only one to survive out of triplet doelings at birth )
> I **Think** she's gonna be a show stopper (her Dam & GrandDam have GOOD attachments and show records)


Pros
LONG body
Strong chine
level chine
Sharp withers
Strong pasterns
Well upheld on strong feet and legs.
Good angulation of rear legs

Cons:
Would like to see longer rump
needs more brisket
Needs more level rump

How did i do?
I think maybe i'm getting better
It's easier at least


----------



## Scottyhorse

:clap: Good job


----------



## margaret

Thanks


----------



## Scottyhorse

Alright Margaret, post your buck! Emma and I will hold back from critiquing until you and the others give it a go first


----------



## Emzi00

Gosh, just go and speak for me... :lol: Yeah, we'll wait. I'm busy until late tonight anyway..


----------



## margaret

O.K here he is.
I should go out and get a better picture of him but i probably won't get around to it till net week.
I'm not sure what to think of him, one judge had him Junior champion the other put him in the back of the line with my other 2 boys.

















__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## COgoatLover25

~ For Margaret's Buck, Elder ~

*PROS-*

Good depth

Fairly level top line

( trying something new! P.S. I'll probably get it wrong :lol: )
Blends smoothly from neck into shoulders

Ok length

Strong chest floor
　
　
　
　
*CONS-*

a little Posty

Paterns could be stronger

Rump could be more level

Needs to be more upstanding

Needs more brisket

Neck could be longer/leaner ?

Does he toe out in the rear?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Don't laugh too much now! :lol:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Oh so this is where I come to ask if my goats look good or not! Now i really have to get some pix! Hi everyone! I can't wait to hear what you all say even if some of it is bad.. I can take it! 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Yup, this is where ya go for now  Just ask us to before you post to make sure we're not busy with another goat ok?


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Cool will do Thanx!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Ok so I got 1 halfway decent pic of my doeling. I never realized how hard it is to get kids to pose! The buckling was even harder! Are you all busy? Or is anyone still here to check out my gal?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## margaret

i won't be able to do anybody today, i have a party after church but I'll do Elder tomorrow and could someone do Cade's goats?
Send your pictures to me, I'll post 'em when we're ready


----------



## Scottyhorse

COgoatLover25 said:


> ~ For Margaret's Buck, Elder ~
> 
> *PROS-*
> 
> Good depth
> 
> Fairly level top line
> 
> ( trying something new! P.S. I'll probably get it wrong :lol: )
> Blends smoothly from neck into shoulders
> 
> Ok length
> 
> Strong chest floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CONS-*
> 
> a little Posty
> 
> Paterns could be stronger
> 
> Rump could be more level
> 
> Needs to be more upstanding
> 
> Needs more brisket
> 
> Neck could be longer/leaner ?
> 
> Does he toe out in the rear?


:thumb: You're getting the hang of this :grin:


----------



## GoatyGoatGal

Thanks for the critique on my "Pygmy" goat! Lol 

The pitcher of her isn't very good, so that might be why she doesn't look like a Pygmy. But, if she's not a Pygmy, any idea what she could be? 
I thought she looked like the Pygmies in Africa, I've seen ones that look just like her. 

If you're ok with it, I'll post a better one of her (when you're not critiquing another goat) so you can see you face, when she's not chewing! 

(Sorry for not writing back sooner, I've been really busy!)


----------



## margaret

Sure that would be fine


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Haha, I'd like to see what ya'll say about my adga alpine buckling...he is from dairy show goat bloodlines...but
I dunno. Lol. 


Home of Some AWESOME seriously nice ADGA Alpine
Goats.
Sent from my iPod touch using Goat Forum


----------



## fishin816

Can I critique someone's goat?!?!? Or post a picture?!?!


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cade, you can post a pic


----------



## margaret

And you can always critique anyone


----------



## margaret

The pictures of my buck are really bad, but I'll just do him from what I see in the pictures though.
Pros:
Long body
Long rump
Strong chine
Level chine
Good body capacity 
Good width
Good depth
Cons:
Back legs are posty (something that I only see in the picture, not when I see him in real life)
Rump is steep.
Pasterns are weak
Needs more brisket (his legs are too far forward in the picture his brisket is pretty good.)


HappyCaliGoats said:


> Ok so I got 1 halfway decent pic of my doeling. I never realized how hard it is to get kids to pose! The buckling was even harder! Are you all busy? Or is anyone still here to check out my gal?
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


You can post now


----------



## COgoatLover25

Scottyhorse said:


> :thumb: You're getting the hang of this :grin:


Thanks Sydney!


----------



## fishin816

Can someone post a pic so i can judge a goat?!?!? 


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

fishin816 said:


> Can someone post a pic so i can judge a goat?!?!?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Should I post my doeling? I haven't got a chance to get a better pic since everyone told my what I need to fix in her posture but if you want to practice on her I can put her up. I'm a little embarrassed to have her judged since I can't even pose her right.. Lol :-/ but what the heck!

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Go ahead and post your pics Dee, they can just be for Cade to judge.
And then you can get some more for us to judge


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Ok here my first attempt to ever pose this doe! I promise I will try harder!








Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Where'd u go Cade??


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## fishin816

Pros 
Good length
Long dairy neck 
Smoothly blended withers
Good general appearance 
Good angulation to rear legs 
Level topline 
Long loin 

Cons
Steep rump 
Needs more brisket
Coule use more depth 
Needs a deeper heart girth (something new for me!!)



Sydney, Emma, Lacie… how did I do????? 


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## fishin816

Another con 
Needs stronger pasterns (maybe?) 


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cade, would you like to post your goat pics? Just make sure they are clear and your goats are clipped  i feel like trying to critique something lol.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Wow that was fun! I can't wait to get a better pic!  Thanx!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

HappyCaliGoats said:


> Wow that was fun! I can't wait to get a better pic!  Thanx!
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Apparently Cade is still learning  So, you should wait for Emma, Lacie or Sydney to do a critique


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

It was still fun! I will get better pix for everyone else to critique  the doeling is not even 5 months yet, she's really petite, do you thing she will fill out?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## margaret

Well it depends on the goat but my kids are always tiny, petite little gals but they end up pretty well filled out. She's a nice little girl


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Thanx Margaret 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Scottyhorse

Even though her front feet are set too far forward, and the back are too far back, I'll critique her anyways 

*Pros:
*Long, lean neck
Smooth blending throughout
Shows breed character (roman nose, pendulous ears)
Long rump
Long over the loin and topline
Strong pasterns
Straight front legs
Strong chine
Tight withers and shoulders

*Cons:
*Lacking rear leg angulation
Rump is a bit steep
Would like her to stand more uphill
Would like to see greater spring of rib and depth.... But that should come with age
Would like to see her stand more uphill
_Maybe_ just a _bit_ more dairy character and refinement.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Thanx Sydney  I like to hear all this feedback!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 2 Pygmy does, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, 1 boer doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

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----------



## Scottyhorse

No problem. Going to try and get some pictures of my buck and the two doelings today.


----------



## margaret

We need another goat.
I would post Della but don't have good pics.
Hey Lindsey, why don't you post pictures of Moon?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Hey, I'll try to post today. Our big buck came back. He's got horns tho. Is that okay?


----------



## Emzi00

That's cool. :thumbup:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Okay, I'mma go take some pics soon!  can't wait to show him to ya.


----------



## spidy1

Hey, I got a few you can critique! An Alpine buck and dairy-Alpine/Kiko does! Tell me when!


----------



## spidy1

Oh, and an old Alpine cross for a very good example on the con list!


----------



## margaret

Now's fine


----------



## spidy1

Ok, here we go, OLD doe first! 
Prows: She makes good milk, sweet old doe
Cons: Every thing else LOL


----------



## Emzi00

Quick, some of you young uns start critiquin'...... I'm ready.. :lol:


----------



## spidy1

I knew she would give you some fun!!!!!!


----------



## Emzi00

I want to use her as a learning tool for the new ones.


----------



## spidy1

Well do so!!!!!!


----------



## Emzi00

Alright, I want all you guys to find as many pros as you possibly can. Ignore the cons for now. Even simple pros, find them all, go in depth.


----------



## goathiker

She has nice clean front knees


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Alright, I want all you guys to find as many pros as you possibly can. Ignore the cons for now. Even simple pros, find them all, go in depth.


.........Can't I just find the cons?............lol


----------



## spidy1

I love her udder for hand milking, and her beard/wisp is cute!


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> .........Can't I just find the cons?............lol


No. There is a method to my madness.  Pros, go.


----------



## Scottyhorse

I finally got some pictures of my buck, Finn. I can post them after this older doe is done. Hopefully they look ok, he doesn't like to be handled much. He prefers to be friendly from afar  Except with the ladies :laugh:

Also got some pictures of one of the doelings. She's going through a growth spurt so her topline looks awful :lol: Still need to get pictures of the other doeling and Cleo, the pygmy


----------



## margaret

She has a long rump??


----------



## margaret

Nice brisket?
Good depth??


----------



## margaret

This is hard


----------



## fishin816

margaret said:


> This is hard


Are you saying you need lessons in dairy goat conformatio!?!?!?

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----------



## spidy1

I have a pic of her udder full from behind if you want it!


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> Nice brisket?
> Good depth??


Lets ignore her brisket for now.... :lol: Good depth _where?_ What else do you see? Be specific.


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> This is hard


It gets easier... :lol: One of these days we'll have a deep conversation about conformation.... :shades:


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Can I try my inexperience on the "Oldy"?
I can only find a few things good about her though!
LOVE the hand milking sized teats, 
decent udder attachments in "The back" (?) 
she seems to have a bit of a"Shelf" (I know, that's a con)
Deep barrel (?) 
That all I can think of!


----------



## spidy1

Ok, I guess I'll post the back pic on Miz Minty/Old Lady!


----------



## spidy1

Nice udder capacity-1 gal day
well placed teats
I'm better at Boers!


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> No. There is a method to my madness.  Pros, go.


Fine!! :lol:

~ For Older Doe ~

*PROS-*

Good depth in rear barrel

fairly long rump

nice neck

Ok length

*UDDER PROS-*

nice-sized teats

ok foreudder

decent capacity


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> Fine!! :lol:
> 
> ~ For Older Doe ~
> 
> *PROS-*
> 
> Good depth in rear barrel
> 
> fairly long rump
> 
> nice neck What about it makes it nice?
> 
> Ok length Length of what? Be specific.
> 
> *UDDER PROS-*
> 
> nice-sized teats
> 
> ok foreudder What about it makes it okay?
> 
> decent capacity


Specifics.


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Specifics.


Ah hah! So you're going to pick on us! :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> Ah hah! So you're going to pick on us! :lol:


.......yes........ but it's for your own good.....


----------



## goathiker

I actually like the old does front carriage assembly. She has clean straight front legs, decent front pasterns for her age, her shoulders blend smoothly and tight to her body with no winging out or excessive looseness. She has good width between her front legs. Her withers could be higher to create more balance and a smoother top line look. Over all though, that part of her isn't too bad.


----------



## Emzi00

:applaud: See, Jill knows everything.


----------



## margaret

fishin816 said:


> Are you saying you need lessons in dairy goat conformatio!?!?!?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


No, I'm getting better at judging, it's just really hard to find pros in that doe :lol:


----------



## margaret

Emma you're annoying :lol:
I guess good depth in her chest and heart girth???


----------



## margaret

How old is she?


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> Emma you're annoying :lol:
> I guess good depth in her chest and heart girth???


I try. :lol:
Good. How about her barrel? Good there too?


----------



## COgoatLover25

COgoatLover25 said:


> Fine!! :lol:
> 
> ~ For Older Doe ~
> 
> *PROS-*
> 
> Good depth in rear barrel
> 
> fairly long rump
> 
> nice long/lean neck?
> 
> Ok length of body
> 
> *UDDER PROS-*
> 
> nice-sized teats
> 
> ok extension of foreudder
> 
> decent capacity


There , I tried


----------



## margaret

Emzi00 said:


> I try. :lol:
> Good. How about her barrel? Good there too?


Yeah I guess.


----------



## spidy1

How old? I don't really know, I'v had her for 3 years, but she was a rescue, she was in HORRIBLE condition when I got her, she was some where in the age frame of 1-3 years, about 20lbs (total, not 20lbs under weight) abscessed super long feet, cocci, worms, barely any hair, and bad pneumonia. She never could fully recover, but at least she is healthy and over 120lbs now, still lame, and this was the last year she could safely freshen, but she is the sweetest little girl, and perfect on the milk stand! So maybe 4-6 years old, not old for a healthy goat, but old for a starved, stunted little thing that can barley walk to the food.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Gah, I really want to critique that old girl :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Okay, cons.... shoot. And if y'all miss any.... I might cry......


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Okay, cons.... shoot. And if y'all miss any.... I might cry......


Get ready to make it flood then :lol:


----------



## goathiker

Head
Doe has a slight Roman nose and heavy jaw that is not up to Alpine breed standards. The ears are set upright but, show a weakness of cartilage. The conformation of the head, face, and ears, make me feel that this doe carries a small amount of Nubian or Kiko blood. 

Neck
Doe shows a heaviness through the throat latch that makes the neck look coarse through that area, again this is a Nubian trait. The neck it's self blends well into the chest and shoulders but is too short and straight losing dairy grace and making the head look stuck on the end rather that curving gently and blending at that point.


----------



## goathiker

Topline
Doe is short through the topline and very slightly elevated in the hips making her look off balance. The chine area has a very slight weakness that is made to look worse by the flat wither area and slight roaching of the loin. I would like to see higher withers and flattening of the loin to smooth out her back and give more balance to the over all appearance. 

Brisket
Doe shows a lack of depth and extension in the brisket area. The brisket area is sufficiently wide and the shoulders nicely blended and positioned on the animal, this saves her from looking like her front legs are stuck on the front of her body instead giving the look of balance even without the depth and extension I would like to see.


----------



## spidy1

Right on goathiker! She's 1/2 Kiko!!!


----------



## goathiker

Barrel
Doe shows good spring of ribs and depth through the rear barrel. I feel that she is a bit too pinched at the heart girth and shows too much shortness through the barrel over all. More length would improve her feed conversion, give her more room to carry multiple kids, and give more area to carry her large udder.


----------



## goathiker

Hind legs
Doe shows extreme weakness through the pasterns and hocks. The overall appearance of the rear legs are extremely posty and badly dropped in the pastern area. The doe showing turned out toes on both hind feet and a bit of hockiness as well. The hind limbs are set too close together leaving the doe lacking escrutcheon and narrowing the rear udder support.

Rump
Doe shows a medium amount of length from hips to pin bones but, also shows a much greater than 45* slope to the rump. From the rear the hips and pins look very narrow and do not blend smoothly into the loin or hind legs.


----------



## spidy1

That is sooooo true, her barrel is to short to carry multiple kids, she prolapses badly. There is a reason breed standards where created!


----------



## goathiker

Udder
From the side, the udder is placed well with 1/3 showing in front of, 1/3 showing behind, and 1/3 hidden behind the rear leg. She is showing a good fill of her rear and fore udder. Her teats hang fairly straight down and appear to be of similar size and shape. They appear functional and are of usable size. 
From the back in the full picture. Udder appears to fill well and shows plenty of capacity. The rear attachments are adequate for a meat cross but for dairy I would like to see more width through the escrutcheon, more of a c shape to the rear attachment, a bit less udder depth to bring the teats above the hocks. 
I would like to see the fore udder with more extension and blending much more smoothly in to the front attachments and abdomen.


----------



## goathiker

The doe should be commended for clean straight front legs, nicely blended tight shoulder blades, and for surviving the first 2 years of her life... 


Alright guys...What did I mess up on?


----------



## Emzi00

I actually think you did quite well. I'll give you an A.  Lacie, come hither.


----------



## Emzi00

O dearest Lacie, come hither before _I _start throwing rusty forks.......


----------



## ndwarf

Goathiker, stop showing everyone else up!!!


----------



## spidy1

Oh, come on, some one has to tell us how to do it!!!! :hammer::lol:


----------



## goathiker

Aw, come on guys. That was my first one. I'm sure some of it is wrong or I missed something...


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Alright, I got some pictures of our buck! Finally!! Ya'll want them? 
Oh, and a 3 year old doe we haven't breed yet.
Which one y'all want first?


----------



## margaret

Buck please


----------



## COgoatLover25

Hey Margaret , 
while you're on 
Mind if I get some pics of my Nubian buck today and post later tonight?


----------



## spidy1

I want to here Emma's "method to her madness"!!!!!:laugh: Oh, and I have a young Alpine buck too!


----------



## COgoatLover25

spidy1 said:


> I want to here Emma's "method to her madness"!!!!!:laugh:


I'm sure she has one  She does most of the time anyways :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Not right now, watching national show....


----------



## spidy1

Aw Cool, what channel?


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For the Older doe ~

*CONS-*

steep rump

posty in rear legs

weak pasterns ( front and back )

Needs more brisket

needs to be upstanding

top line needs to be more level

toes out 
( front and back )

Could use more length of body

a little weak in chine

Don't cry too much Emma...:lol:


----------



## Emzi00

I'm crying watching this guy judge, its a ton of crap... :lol:


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Emzi00 said:


> I'm crying watching this guy judge, its a ton of crap... :lol:


May i ask why you dont like him.... Weve shown under both mark baden and pete snyder and weve done great under both.

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----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

LamanchaAcres said:


> May i ask why you dont like him.... Weve shown under both mark baden and pete snyder and weve done great under both.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


I've never shown under either but Pete judges a lot around here and I've always seen lovely animals place well under him..


----------



## Emzi00

LamanchaAcres said:


> May i ask why you dont like him.... Weve shown under both mark baden and pete snyder and weve done great under both.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Pete was placing the extremely refined does in the front of the line, saying they were more dairy, but the ones placing a bit further were equally as dairy, just not the newer refined style. I'd seen some of the does placing further back in person and they were incredibly dairy, just a different style.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

We also have to remember that everyone likes different styles  
I've been getting pictures of the classes and i think that all the animals are beautiful and deserve to place well, it's gotta be hard to judge that many animals all at once..


----------



## Emzi00

I know, but a lot of the does were so refined that I'd almost have to call them frail. A dairy goat is meant to hold up over the years, these does were so refined that I'm not so sure that'll happen.


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Emzi00 said:


> I know, but a lot of the does were so refined that I'd almost have to call them frail. A dairy goat is meant to hold up over the years, these does were so refined that I'm not so sure that'll happen.


I see your point, thanks for pointing that out!

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----------



## Scottyhorse

Emzi00 said:


> I know, but a lot of the does were so refined that I'd almost have to call them frail. A dairy goat is meant to hold up over the years, these does were so refined that I'm not so sure that'll happen.


I agree with you. Not a fan of these super refined, frail dairy goats.


----------



## Emzi00

spidy1 said:


> I want to here Emma's "method to her madness"!!!!!:laugh: Oh, and I have a young Alpine buck too!


By having y'all find the good points in a doe with many faults, it helps you think through and figure out exactly what you're looking at. It helps you understand what you're seeing better.


----------



## margaret

COgoatLover25 said:


> Hey Margaret ,
> while you're on
> Mind if I get some pics of my Nubian buck today and post later tonight?


sure


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Sorry it took so long! Went out everywhere today!  river fishing, beach fishing. Body surfing for WAY too long. Got a nice sum burn...
But anyway. Hope there ain't too many bad things about him...Brownie next?


----------



## spidy1

I LOVE his horns!!!! I just love all horns!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Me too. We like our Tarzan.


----------



## canyontrailgoats

How can he walk with those weights on his head?! :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Impressive horns. If you don't mind me asking, what's his registered name?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Haven't registered yet. Were about to register him. His dad is In the Reds Last Straw and mom is In the Reds Naomi. 
They're both "champion" bloodline.


----------



## Emzi00

Willow Run, Cherry Glen, and Nodaway are all very nice.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

That's what I've been told.  we got a great deal on him his mom, twin sis, and half sister with her mom.


----------



## Emzi00

Alright, someone critique this guy so I can. 

When I have a chance, I'm going to get some pictures of my buckling.


----------



## margaret

Don't have time right now


----------



## Scottyhorse

Do I count?


----------



## Emzi00

No, you actually kinda know what you're talking about.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

I don't care you does it.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

*who


----------



## Scottyhorse

Emzi00 said:


> No, you actually kinda know what you're talking about.


Just kinda?!?!? :mecry:


----------



## Emzi00

:lol: If it makes you feel any better, I just kinda know what I'm talking about too.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Yes it does


----------



## spidy1

I couldn't help much, unless he was Boer, then maybe!!!! (I use Kiko/Alpine crosses and Boers for milk, Lt. Warf is my only full Alpine)


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

spidy1 said:


> I couldn't help much, unless he was Boer, then maybe!!!! (I use Kiko/Alpine crosses and Boers for milk, Lt. Warf is my only full Alpine)


Nothing wrong with that! I used a boer for milk for 2 months while I was waiting for my Nubian! She had delicious milk and produced exactly half gallon a day which was the perfect amount for me to feed the kid 

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

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----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Someone critique him!!! Haha, lol.


----------



## Emzi00

I'm feeling judgey, so I'm not going to wait....

*Pros:*
Good length of body
Straight front legs
Long, fairly level rump
Good blending throughout
Tight shoulders
Sharp withers
Masculine
Correct bite
Long neck
Broad, deep muzzle
Color conforms

*Cons:*
Weak pasterns
Would like more angulation to the rear legs
Needs more extension of brisket
Would like to move his thurls back a bit
Roached in the loin, which makes a bit of a dip in the chine, and throws off his topline
Would like to see him more upstanding and a bit longer bone pattern


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emma!!!! How DARE you! :lol:
I'm not going to look at your post...till I'm done


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Alpine buck ~

*PROS-*

Fairly long/level rump

Nice length of body

Neck is good length

Seems to blend very well throughout body

Doesn't toe out in the rear

*CONS-*

A bit posty in rear legs

Needs more brisket

Needs to be more upstanding

Does he toe out in front?

Weak patterns in front and back

Neck could be a bit leaner

Looks a bit weak in chine


----------



## Emzi00

See, he's not necessarily weak in the chine. Him having sharp withers and being roached in the loin makes it look like that. I bet if you got hands on it would be fine through the chine.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Is it because I didn't position him right? 
That goats neck is pretty lean...holding up dem horns. Lol.
But y'all know more about it then me.


----------



## Emzi00

Some goats just have toplines like that. Now, ideally there won't be a dip or any coaching in the topline, being roached is better than a dip, though neither are good.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Oh, and y'all ready for Brownie? She's 75% Alpine and 25% Nubian.
I know one con on her. Hehe...


----------



## Emzi00

Sure, we can do her now.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Not sure if that last picture helps. Lol.
I couldn't catch her standing correctly. Sorry! Lol.


----------



## spidy1

Not much help, but dang, I like your goats InTheCrookedPinesFarm!!!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Haha!! Thanks!! I like what I've seen of yours too!!


----------



## goathiker

Dex is clipped for a fuzzy show is that good enough to have him critiqued?


----------



## Scottyhorse

We will need a side profile picture.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Critiqued on here or at the show? 

They show woolly mammoths at buck shows! :lol: Clipped or not clipped, it's good enough for a fuzzy show  Good luck!


----------



## Emzi00

We all love Dex....


----------



## goathiker

Oh, I'll take some good pictures with him set up this weekend. That one is just him meeting his does for this year. He can stand a lot better.


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For the doe ~

*PROS-*

Neck is an ok length

Topline is fairly level

Nice length of body

Looks to have strength in chine

Body type seems pretty uniform throughout

*CONS-*

Rump is short and steep

Could be more angular in rear legs

Neck could be a bit leaner/more refined

Would like to see more depth in heart girth and rear barrel

Needs to be more upstanding

Pasterns could be more upright

Needs more brisket

Does she toe out in rear legs?

Remember while you're reading this that a very sleepy, tired person wrote it...:lol:


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> Remember while you're reading this that a very sleepy, tired person wrote it...:lol:


That's how a lot of my critiques end.... :lol:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Can I post pics of my boy tomorrow after I clip him??


----------



## COgoatLover25

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Can I post pics of my boy tomorrow after I clip him??


Sure  If Jill isn't planning on posting Dex tomorrow


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Go for it Skyla. You're all terribly slow at judging , takes y'all up to a week for one goat! Heaven forbid you get two in one day done :slapfloor:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Go for it Skyla. You're all terribly slow at judging , takes y'all up to a week for one goat! Heaven forbid you get two in one day done :slapfloor:


Oh shush! :lol:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

:lol:
Ok, I'll get some pics after I clip him


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Haha, y'all. Thanks! I gotta get as good as y'all!


----------



## goathiker

I'll post Dex on Saturday. DH's phone has a better camera.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

COgoatLover25 said:


> ~ For the doe ~
> 
> *PROS-*
> 
> Neck is an ok length
> 
> Topline is fairly level
> 
> Nice length of body
> 
> Looks to have strength in chine
> 
> Body type seems pretty uniform throughout
> 
> *CONS-*
> 
> Rump is short and steep
> 
> Could be more angular in rear legs
> 
> Neck could be a bit leaner/more refined
> 
> Would like to see more depth in heart girth and rear barrel
> 
> Needs to be more upstanding
> 
> Pasterns could be more upright
> 
> Needs more brisket
> 
> Does she toe out in rear legs?
> 
> Remember while you're reading this that a very sleepy, tired person wrote it...:lol:


That's really good!


----------



## spidy1

Don't forget me!!!! I still have a buck and 2 does left for you!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Yeah, and I have 10 more goats...
LOL just kidding!!


----------



## margaret

I got about a dozen goats to put on here so i wanna slip one on somewhere.


----------



## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> I got about a dozen goats to put on here so i wanna slip one on somewhere.


Well start posting! :lol:


----------



## spidy1

Who's first?!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Y'all got a lot to do...when ya done I have a buckling.
Hehehe


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Y'all got a lot to do...when ya done I have a buckling.
Hehehe


----------



## COgoatLover25

Since Margaret got off, you can go ahead and post your buckling now


----------



## spidy1

My Lt. Warf or InTheCrookedPinesFarm's O'din?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Either one 
It just needs to be a dairy goat


----------



## spidy1

Ok, I'm here! Lt. Warf, please excuse the Mohawk its standing strait up on his lower back!


----------



## spidy1

Warf is 6 months and 80#!!!


----------



## margaret

Wow!


----------



## margaret

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Go for it Skyla. You're all terribly slow at judging , takes y'all up to a week for one goat! Heaven forbid you get two in one day done :slapfloor:


Oh yeah?
Well we're gonna do 3 in one day. 
I must say, YOU have some catching up to do.
You're supposed to come behind us.


----------



## COgoatLover25

Margaret's 2 yr. old Alpine doe


----------



## margaret

For Brownie
Pros:
long neck
long body
level topline
strong topline

Cons:
Needs to be more "uphill" from rump to withers
steep rump
weak pasterns
needs more brisket
rump should be more level
back legs are a little posty
rump should be longer


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Spidy's buck ~

*PROS-*

Nice distance between hocks

Pasterns look strong from what I can see

Strong chest floor

Doesn't toe out in front or back legs

Back legs look straight and strong from rear

Nice angularity in rear legs

Long neck

Nice length of body

Ok length / levelness of rump

Withers are higher than rump

Looks to have tight withers

*CONS-*

Looks to be weak in chine

Could use more brisket

Would like to see more depth in rear barrel and heart girth

Neck could be a bit leaner / more refined

Rump could be a bit longer / level

Could blend a bit smoother from neck to withers

:shocked: Here comes the Emma bat..........ouch


----------



## margaret

spidy1 said:


> Ok, I'm here! Lt. Warf, please excuse the Mohawk its standing strait up on his lower back!


Cons: 
Should blend more smoothly from neck into withers
Weak chine (?)
Needs a more level topline
Needs a leaner neck
Needs more brisket

Pros:
Sharp withers
Rump is fairly level
Nice angulation of rear legs
long rump
Long body
Good depth of Barrel
long neck.

(can't see his pasterns very well)


----------



## spidy1

I'm really thankful you mentioned his pasterns COgoatLover25, he had a bought with selenium def and was walking on the outside of his hooves and falling in the pasterns, it's SOOO astonishing how important selenium/E is!!!! Now he's good and strong!!!


----------



## Emzi00

For Brownie...

*Pros:*
Straight front legs
Good length of body
Strong topline
Correct bite
Feminine
Thurls look good
Blends smoothly throughout

*Cons:*
Short, steep rump
Weak pasterns
I'd like more angulation to the rear legs
Lacks power in the front end
Needs more depth, at point of elbow on back into the rear barrel
Could use some more dairy character

Yeah, um, sure I forgot a lot... I'm out of it today..


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> :shocked: Here comes the Emma bat..........ouch


:slapfloor: :ROFL:


----------



## margaret

And for my doe
Start with the pros to make myself feel good, I'll be crying by the end:lol:
Pros:
Long rump
Rump is fairly level
Blends smoothly from neck into withers
good angulation of rear legs
strong chine
ok depth of barrel
straight front legs

Cons:
WEAK pasterns
weak fore udder attachment
weak rear udder attachment
needs more brisket
wither are to sharp (would be better with more weight)
needs a longer leaner neck

Done!
See Lacie, we did it :lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Margaret's doe ~

*PROS-*

Nice long / level rump

Topline is fairly level

Nice length of body

Neck is lean

Upstanding

Seems to blend smoothly throughout

*CONS-*

Pasterns need to be more upright in front and back legs

Needs more brisket

Her legs seem almost too angular to me

Neck could be a bit longer

HELP&#8230;is she ewe-necked?

Needs more depth in rear barrel and heart girth

*UDDER-
*

Teats are even-sized

Needs better attachments

Uneven


----------



## Emzi00

I'll do the other two in a bit, I need to go eat...


----------



## margaret

I thought the same thing about her legs might be a bit too angular, I think it's because she's pinched down a bit too far


----------



## spidy1

We need 1 more! InTheCrookedPinesFarm your turn, now Lacie will be waaaay behind!!!


----------



## margaret

Gotta go now, my goats are calling me.


----------



## COgoatLover25

Margaret, if you want your other doe posted...just say the words


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Emzi00 said:


> For Brownie...
> 
> *Pros:*
> 
> Straight front legs
> 
> Good length of body
> 
> Strong topline
> 
> Correct bite
> 
> Feminine
> 
> Thurls look good
> 
> Blends smoothly throughout
> 
> *Cons:*
> 
> Short, steep rump
> 
> Weak pasterns
> 
> I'd like more angulation to the rear legs
> 
> Lacks power in the front end
> 
> Needs more depth, at point of elbow on back into the rear barrel
> 
> Could use some more dairy character
> 
> Yeah, um, sure I forgot a lot... I'm out of it today..


Yeah, we still haven't bred her yet. She's almost 3 years old. She's a big goat!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Still have to get pictures. O'din doesn't like to stand still.
I wish y'all could do Big Momma (Little Lou Ann) but she is recovering from A copper defiency. (She don't look so great)
She always stands perfectly! (Cuz she's been trained!) 
I'll get around to O'din. I'll be dragging my sister out to hold the camera!! Hehehe!  
Margaret, nice doe. 
Spidy, your buck reminds me of O'din!!


----------



## spidy1

He does, that's why I'm sooooo excited after seeing Tarzan!!!
If you haven't got pics yet I'll post my doeling Zeva, she's 1/4 Alpine 3/4 Kiko. She's still "dairy" LOL!!!


----------



## margaret

Please post Emerald Lindsey


----------



## margaret

spidy1 said:


> He does, that's why I'm sooooo excited after seeing Tarzan!!!
> If you haven't got pics yet I'll post my doeling Zeva, she's 1/4 Alpine 3/4 Kiko. She's still "dairy" LOL!!!


I'll do her.

Pros: 
nice angulation of rear legs
long rump
blends smoothly from shoulder into neck
sharp withers
good width
long neck
You can't expect to find too many pros since she's mostly kiko but she's a nice doe
Cons:
Weak pasterns
steep rump
needs more brisket
needs a leaner neck


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

She's a nice doe anyway.


----------



## spidy1

And now for the kicker, Zeva is the Old Lady's daughter!!! Most of the Old Lady's deformities are from her past as a hoarder's goat.


----------



## goathiker

On a side note, Zeva has almost perfect pack goat confirmation.


----------



## spidy1

All goats are good for something!!!


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Zeva ~

*PROS-*

Nice angulation to rear legs

Strong chest floor

Long neck

Doesn't toe out in front or rear legs

Sharp withers

Ok length of body

*CONS-*

Rump is short and steep

Needs more brisket

Needs to be upstanding

Could use a bit more spec between hocks

Would like to see more depth in rear barrel and at heart girth

Weak patterns ( front and back )

Neck could be a bit leaner / refined

Lacks body capacity

Would like to see more dairy character


----------



## COgoatLover25

-Margaret's 2 yr. old Alpine doe, Emerald-


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

I'll post pics of my guy tomorrow... Got busy today.. And a tad lazy in the hot weather  lol


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Ok, I'm gonna post my doe now because I don't know when my computer will let me get on next! LOL!
(PS she is FOR SALE) this pic is from the first day she got here, she was not in the best of shape and has "improved"


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Oh her name is IVY BROOKS AM DAZZLING*ATHENA* and in the pics she's dry


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Oh she's very pretty!  such an elegant face!


----------



## Emzi00

Lt. Warf

*Pros:*
Tight toes
Hard to tell with pictures given, but I'm guessing he has strong pasterns
Good angulation in the rear legs
Decent length of body
Good extension of brisket
Long neck
Masculine
Good depth of body, point of elbow on back into the rear barrel
Good width into the chest floor
Good width through hips and pins
High cut in the escutcheon
Good width between hocks
Neck blends smoothly into withers and brisket
Chest floor blends well into the heart...
Thurls are good

*Cons:*
Could be stronger over the topline
Rump could be longer and more level
Toes out, especially in the rear
I'd like him deeper in the chest floor


----------



## Emzi00

Margaret' s 2 y.o. doe

*Pros:*
Straight front legs
Good length of body
Chest floor blends well into the heart..
Upstanding
Dairy-ish looking
Neck blends well into shoulders
Thurls look good
Strong topline
Color conforms

*Cons:*
Lacks depth of body
Weak pasterns
Too much angulation in the rear legs
Needs more brisket
Neck could blend more smoothly into withers and brisket
Rump could be longer and more level, but not too bad
Short neck

*Udder:*
Needs to be higher and wider into the escutcheon
Needs much stronger rear attachments
I'd like the teats moved more centrally a touch
I'd like more depth into the floor of the udder
Fore could be more smoothly blended
Could use a bit more capacity
Good extension of fore
Good size and shape of teats
Medial looks good


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Margaret' s 2 y.o. doe
> 
> *Pros:*
> Straight front legs
> Good length of body
> Chest floor blends well into the heart..
> Upstanding
> Dairy-ish looking
> Neck blends well into shoulders
> Thurls look good
> Strong topline
> Color conforms
> 
> *Cons:*
> Lacks depth of body
> Weak pasterns
> Too much angulation in the rear legs
> Needs more brisket
> Neck could blend more smoothly into withers and brisket
> Rump could be longer and more level, but not too bad
> Short neck
> 
> *Udder:*
> Needs to be higher and wider into the escutcheon
> Needs much stronger rear attachments
> I'd like the teats moved more centrally a touch
> I'd like more depth into the floor of the udder
> Fore could be more smoothly blended
> Could use a bit more capacity
> Good extension of fore
> Good size and shape of teats
> Medial looks good


So I was RIGHT! YAY! :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Was that all that you got right? :lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

There...happy now? Probably not...:lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Nothing on her udder? :lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Nothing on her udder? :lol:


...........................


----------



## Emzi00

We can work on that later.... :lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

:lol:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Still didn't get pics of O'din. Sorry!


----------



## mayia97420

dumb question but what do you mean by upstanding?


----------



## Emzi00

Withers being taller than hips.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Oh she's very pretty!  such an elegant face!


Thank you! she's beautiful but does not fit in my breeding program :mecry::sigh:
Hence the reason I'm selling


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Margaret's doe, Emerald ~

*PROS-*

Rump is fairly long / level

Nice angularity in rear legs

Neck is long / lean

Ok length of body

Straight front legs

Upstanding

Topline is fairly level

*CONS-*

Weak pasterns in front and back legs

Needs more brisket

Toes out in rear?

Needs more depth in rear barrel and heart girth


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For GlassvileDairyGoats' Nubian doe ~

*PROS-
*

Rump is fairly long

Ok length of body

Lean neck

Good breed character

Lovely brisket

Good angularity in rear legs

Upstanding

Nice depth in heart girth and rear barrel

Blends smoothly from neck into withers

Fairly level top line

Straight front legs

*CONS-*

Rump could be a bit longer

Rump needs to be more level

Neck could be a bit longer

Toes out in rear

Pasterns could be more upright

Would like to see a bit more dairy character


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Yearling buck


----------



## fishin816

4 month old doe








3 year old doe third freshening







Udder pics later&#8230;

Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cade, you didn't ask...but we needed more goats anyway! :lol:


----------



## ksalvagno

Give him a break. He isn't on much and probably doesn't know.


----------



## ksalvagno

Keep it friendly, keep it fun.

He may not have even seen any previous messages.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

I agree with Karen  my post was the only one above it, so his post won't slow things down too much


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Justice ~

*PROS-*

Nice length of body

Upstanding

Lean neck

Blends nicely

Nice angularity to rear legs

Good depth throughout

Straight legs ( front and back )

Strong top line

Strong chest floor

*CONS-*

Rump could be more level / longer

Neck could be a bit longer

Could use more brisket


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Cade's Younger doe ~

*PROS-*

Nice length of body

Sharp withers

Lean neck

Straight front legs

Nice angularity to rear legs

Blends nicely

Doesn't toe out ( front and rear ) from what I can see in pic

Nice depth throughout

Very pretty color 

Rump is a good length

*CONS-*

Rump could be leveler

Neck could be a bit longer

Needs more brisket

Needs to be more upstanding


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ For Cade's Other doe ~

*PROS- *

Upstanding

Nice depth of rear barrel

Rump is pretty level

Good length of body

Nice angularity of rear legs

Straight front legs

Strong top line

Long / lean neck

Good dairy character

Blends smoothly

Strong pasterns

*CONS-*

Toes out in rear legs

Rump could be a bit longer

Would like to see a bit more depth in heart girth


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ Velvet-Acres Diva'a Dahlia ~ - 6 1/2 yr. old ND doe -


----------



## COgoatLover25

Hey Cade, if you're still on you should critique my doe for me


----------



## fishin816

PROS: 
Nice general apperance 
long dairy neck 
Level topline 
Uphill body stature 
Looks to be well blended 
Decent brisket 
Decent lenght of body
Nice body capacity 

CONS: 
Could use a longer/leveler rump 



Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## fishin816

ACTUALLY:
Needs more brisket 
Needs more depth of heart girth 
Toes out in the front and back 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cade, which goats are you talking about? I couldn't see your goats feet cause they were in the grass if that's who you're talking about 
If you're talking about my doe, another thing she needs is tighter tied toes


----------



## fishin816

COgoatLover25 said:


> Cade, which goats are you talking about? I couldn't see your goats feet cause they were in the grass if that's who you're talking about
> If you're talking about my doe, another thing she needs is tighter tied toes


Your goat&#8230;

Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

fishin816 said:


> Your goat&#8230;
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Figured but just wanted to be sure


----------



## COgoatLover25

OK, well we've ran out of goats ...so feel free to post any  everybody


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Can I post a doe?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Sure, go ahead


----------



## Scottyhorse

I think some other people need to crituqe at least a couple of the goats before we post more.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Scottyhorse said:


> I think some other people need to crituqe at least a couple of the goats before we post more.


Kk


----------



## COgoatLover25

Scottyhorse said:


> I think some other people need to crituqe at least a couple of the goats before we post more.


Good idea


----------



## margaret

Looks like I have some catching up to do


----------



## margaret

The first doe of mine that Lindsey posted was actually 3 years old, i forgot to update my webpage.
The second one is 2 y.o, so for my 2 year old doe:
Pros:Long body
Long rump
Blends smoothly from shoulders into neck
Nice angulation of rear legs
strong,level topline
strong chine
Cons: weak pasterns
needs more brisket
weak rear udder
weak fore-udder
needs longer neck
needs leaner neck
rump is to steep


----------



## mayia97420

I have 2 Lamacha bucklings I would like to have Critiqued - is there going to be room or should I just make a new general post?


----------



## margaret

Once i get caught up a bit we can take more.


----------



## margaret

For Justice:
Pros:
Nice angulation of rear legs
Long body
Long neck
Lean neck
Strong chine
Strong topline
Level topline
Sharp withers
Blends smoothly from neck into shoulders.
Cons:
Short rump
Steep rump
Needs more brisket
Weak pasterns

Nice boy Skyla


----------



## margaret

For Cade's second doe:
Pros:
long body
long rump
fairly level rump
level topline
strong topline
long neck
lean neck
strong fore udder attachments
smoothly blended
upstanding

Cons:
needs more brisket
pasterns could be a little bit stronger
too much angulation of rear legs
needs more depth in heart girth


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

COgoatLover25 said:


> ~ For GlassvileDairyGoats' Nubian doe ~
> 
> *PROS-*
> 
> Rump is fairly long
> 
> Ok length of body
> 
> Lean neck
> 
> Good breed character
> 
> Lovely brisket
> 
> Good angularity in rear legs
> 
> Upstanding
> 
> Nice depth in heart girth and rear barrel
> 
> Blends smoothly from neck into withers
> 
> Fairly level top line
> 
> Straight front legs
> 
> *CONS-*
> 
> Rump could be a bit longer
> 
> Rump needs to be more level
> 
> Neck could be a bit longer
> 
> Toes out in rear
> 
> Pasterns could be more upright
> 
> Would like to see a bit more dairy character


Thank you, (And nice job!) anyone else?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Okay, got some worth posting!! Lol.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm




----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Even then those aren't that great! He's a gorgeous goat! And it's hard to catch with my camera.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

could we get some that have his ENTIRE body? so like feet/legs every part of him, that makes the critiquing more thorough.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Ignore the mess in the shop! 5 guys use it to store all their tools in!! Lol! 
And sorry for the darkness! It's raining and there is no light in the barn.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Them pictures still don't do him justice. 
P.S. Big Momma(In the Reds Little Lou Ann) is in the back ground. She's recovering from a copper deficiency. I'm going to post pictures before and after...lol, if I can figure out how to post my own thread through mobile.
She already looks better after one week!


----------



## margaret

Is that o'din?
Pros: 
Nice angulation of rear legs
Strong pasterns
long body
sharp withers
straight front legs
long neck
smoothly blended
strong topline

Cons:
Rump is too steep
Rump is too short
Neck needs to be more lean
needs more brisket
toplin could be a little more level
needs to be more upstanding


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Yeah, that's O'din.


----------



## Scottyhorse

I guess I should critique a goat too,  

Pros:
Nice general appearance, he catches my eye
Love those pasterns of his
Overall blending is nice
Straight, strong front legs
Good feet
Rear leg set is pretty nice
Blending into the heart girth and rear barrel is pretty good
Nice head
Shoulders are tight
Neck blends into withers and chest floor nicely
Strong chine
Descent body depth and spring of rib for a young buck
Pretty nice body length
Topline seems fairly long, especially over the loin

Cons:
Needs to be longer and leveler over the hips and pins
Topline needs to be more level
Needs to be more upstanding
Looks a bit narrow though the hocks and through his front end
Needs more brisket and a bit more of a powerful front end
Could use just a tad more rear leg angulation
Neck could be longer and leaner

Overall, a pretty handsome guy 

Edit- not sure if he is a grade alpine or not, so I can't say wether his color conforms to breed or not.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

He's full blooded alpine that's all I know...lol. His dam is registered and we are going to register his sire soon.
Then we'll probably register him.


----------



## margaret

Scottyhorse said:


> I guess I should critique a goat too,
> 
> Pros:
> Nice general appearance, he catches my eye
> Love those pasterns of his
> Overall blending is nice
> Straight, strong front legs
> Good feet
> Rear leg set is pretty nice
> Blending into the heart girth and rear barrel is pretty good
> Nice head
> Shoulders are tight
> Neck blends into withers and chest floor nicely
> Strong chine
> Descent body depth and spring of rib for a young buck
> Pretty nice body length
> Topline seems fairly long, especially over the loin
> 
> Cons:
> Needs to be longer and leveler over the hips and pins
> Topline needs to be more level
> Needs to be more upstanding
> Looks a bit narrow though the hocks and through his front end
> Needs more brisket and a bit more of a powerful front end
> Could use just a tad more rear leg angulation
> Neck could be longer and leaner
> 
> Overall, a pretty handsome guy
> 
> Edit- not sure if he is a grade alpine or not, so I can't say wether his color conforms to breed or not.


Looks like i got a lot right


----------



## margaret

3 does left!
For Tearza's doe:
Pros:
Good brisket extension
Long body
Long neck
lean neck
smoothly blended from neck into shoulders
upstanding
long level topline
strong topline
straight front legs
nice angulation of rear legs
sharp withers

Cons:
rump is too steep
rump should be a bit longer 
pasterns could be a bit stronger


----------



## mayia97420

Thank you Margret :
Here are my bucklings
First Major who was born June 6th 
Second Claude who was born June 9th
I tried to get pix from all sides but if something different is needed please let me know. I don't show and don't know how to properly position them.
Thanks in advance - trying to learn more


----------



## margaret

For Claude:
Pros: 
Strong pasterns
O.K brisket
level topline
strong topline
strong chine
long body
strong chest floor
good width to rump
upstanding
good depth of barrel

Cons:
Rump is too short
rump is too steep
rear legs are a little posty
needs a longer leaner neck
could be a blended a bit better from neck into withers, shoulder and brisket.


----------



## margaret

Lindsey git over here and starting working on these bucklings.


----------



## Emzi00

Well, not the greatest pictures, but y'all get the idea. He ain't very photogenic, looks much better in person! :lol:


----------



## spidy1

Hey, you guys want an udder just for kicks?


----------



## margaret

Sure, I'm getting tired of bucklings:lol:


----------



## margaret

For Major:
Pros
-strong pasterns
-good angulation of rear legs
-strong chine
-strong topline
Cons:
-steep rump
-needs more brisket
-needs to be more upstanding
-topline should be a bit more level
Thats all I can really tell from the pictures.


----------



## spidy1

Ok, here we go!!! Excuse the extra teets, she's no show goat. She's a first freshener, 3 weeks in, nursing twins and giving me about 1/3 gal day!


----------



## Sylvie

When you're finished with all these, can I post a buck?


----------



## Sylvie

spidy1 said:


> Ok, here we go!!! Excuse the extra teats, she's no show goat. She's a first freshener, 3 weeks in, nursing twins and giving me about 1/3 gal day!


Nicely proportioned, but could use more capacity.
Her rear attachment needs to be stronger, but not bad for a non-show goat.
MSL needs to be stronger.
Teats should be larger and more centrally placed.
Fore udder should be smoother.
Halves are even, and globularly shaped.

There ya go!


----------



## spidy1

Sylvie said:


> Nicely proportioned, but could use more capacity.
> Her rear attachment needs to be stronger, but not bad for a non-show goat.
> MSL needs to be stronger.
> Teats should be larger and more centrally placed.
> Fore udder should be smoother.
> Halves are even, and globularly shaped.
> 
> There ya go!


Awesome!!! I'll take that any day, she's a BOER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Here's one for you ladies (and guys? I clearly have not paid atten!) she's dry & 11 yrs old so when judging her just keep that in mind. 
PS also she's not toes out but my lil sis sets goats up that way, so the judge said.
PPS excuse my hair in the bottom pic! (oops)


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Oh, she looks like she was a real nice goat back in her day.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Is she Ober?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

InTheCrookedPinesFarm said:


> Is she Ober?


Yes she is a registered oberhasli :shades:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, so I didn't exactly keep up my end of the bargain, but I'll start again :slapfloor: Starting with the last doe posted, the Oberhasli.

*Cons:*
Needs more brisket
Would like her to be more level from thurl to thurl (from what i can see, one is just a touch higher than the other, and more prominent)
Also forgot to add that I'd like her thurls to be a bit higher
I would like a more uphill stature
Rump is a bit steep
Point of shoulder could be a bit smoother
I would like her to have a bit more depth in the rear barrel
I would like her neck to blend better into her brisket
Could have slightly straighter rear legs
I would like her to have a more open spring of rib
And I also like her to have a bigger barrel
Another thing, I would like a cleaner jaw on her, where it meets the neck

*Pros:*
Nice length of body
Good long rump
Long bone pattern
Nice flat bone
Looks like she has the nice wedge shape
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Chest floor blends nicely into the heart girth
Girth blends well into the spring of rib and barrel
Strong topline
Nice strength in the chine
Good straight forelegs
Tight, smooth shoulders
Overall nice strength in the front end assembly
Nice wide hips
Wide pins
Really nice width of the chest floor
I can't really see how good her pasturns are, but they look good judging from the height of the dewclaw
Decent length neck
Lean, slender neck
Good dairy character
Nice and wide between the hocks
Escutcheon is nice and high
Good rear udder arch, I would like it to be a bit rounder, but it's good
Even though she's dry it looks like she had a really nice long extension of the fore
Nice angulation in the rear legs
Nice femininity
Decent head, it is a bit big looking, and I prefer a more dished (french/swiss) face on them, but her's is fine
Good color
And good breed character

Overall she is a nice looking doe, and is holding up really well for her age. I may have left something out, but there's my overall opinion of her.


----------



## Emzi00

Hey, um, want to start a conversation explaining how she could be more level from thurl to thurl..? :lol:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

It means exactly that :lol: They aren't quite level, just barely off. There is one thurl on each side, and on some goats one is higher than the other, or one is more prominent, or they are set too high, or too low, or too far forward, or to far back.


----------



## Emzi00

Good, thank you. :lol:


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Can I post a picture of my goats on here?  I'm not very good.

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## Emzi00

There's a few that need to be caught up on, then surely. You should try judging some too.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Okay. I'll try judging, but nobody laugh!!! ;-)

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

When do you think I should post pictures of my goats? I haven't seen Lindsey on here in a while.

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## Emzi00

Once someone does these last three we'll be caught up, so after that. Maybe a day or two.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Okay. Which goats are up next? (Which ones should I try judging)

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Emzi00 said:


> Good, thank you. :lol:


Ok, think of it like this;
If a goat has a narrow rump, the thurls are too close, and so are the hips and pins normally. Poses kidding difficulties.

If a goat has a steep rump, the thurls are too far forward, and this affects the udder as well. A doe with a very steep rump has a lower set rear udder, and less area of attachment. The rear legs are normally one or the other with very steep rumps, sickle, or posty.

If the goat has a tent shape to the rump, spine being higher that the thurls, they either have low set thurls or they need more conditioning. Does like this also have more kidding difficulties.

If a goat has a level rump, the thurls are set just far enough back, which is usually about 2/3 from the hips (toward the pins), and the thurls are high enough up to be level with the tailbone. These goats generally have correct angle. Though they can be a bit posty or slightly sickle as well, depends on the goat. But generally a level rump equals good legs.


----------



## Emzi00

Charisa, go back three pages, the bucklings on the bottom of the page are where we left off.


----------



## fishin816

So it looks like all other critquing is done&#8230; so I am going to post a picture of Jazz.









She is 3 now&#8230; but this is the only good picture I have of her!!!

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----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

3 months or 3 years? Makes a huge difference


----------



## fishin816

3 years!!! Should have mentioned that!!! 


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----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Another new doe Cade?!


----------



## fishin816

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Another new doe Cade?!


Guilty as charged!!! I am gonna be glad when everybody wants goats from southern IL!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

:lol: 
That's ok, I came home with 4 today too 

Lol!


----------



## fishin816

Nubians or lamanchas?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

3 Nubians and one LaMancha  I'll post pics on the chat thread tomorrow


----------



## margaret

Wait a minute, Skyla's getting Nubians?!?!?!?
I thought you were doing LaManchas?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Both


----------



## thegoatgirl

I am guilty of being absent from this thread for a while now *Sob* I hereby pledge that I will try and keep up with it as often as possible.
Anyway. 

This thread has gone sooo far! If y'all don't mind, I would love to post my doeling on here, when I can 

I know, a rather rude request from someone who has been gone....
LOL!


----------



## Scottyhorse

Go ahead  I am going to try and get more pictures of everyone today. Somehow, they got deleted before I could post them...


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okay! Here's Dancer!


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

He's a purdy boy!


----------



## fishin816

For Dancer 


PROS: 
LOVE his general apperance! 
Level topline 
Long loin 
Strong chine 
looks be smoothly blended 
Long dairy neck 

CONS: 
Could use more brisket 
Needs more level rump 


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----------



## fishin816

OH! Beautiful angularity to the rear legs too! 


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----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Can I post pics of my goats? 

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 2 wethers and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

:doh: You guys!!! Dancer is a DOE! :lol: :slapfloor:


----------



## ndwarf

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> :doh: You guys!!! Dancer is a DOE! :lol: :slapfloor:


You took the words right out of my mouth!!


----------



## ndwarf

Going to give this a try, never done it before.
For Dancer:

Pros
Very dairy
long neck 
Good pasterns (?)
Long, level topline
Smoothly blended

Cons
Not very much brisket
Steep rump

Overall a gorgous girl!!


----------



## margaret

I can't see Dancer's picture.


----------



## margaret

Computer is being idiotic and every thing looks weird and kinda blurry.
For Bear:
pros:
-strong pasterns
-sharp withers
-fairly long body
-nice angulation of rear legs
-strong topline
-strong chine
-good depth of barrel

Cons:
-steep rump
-could be more uphill
-needs more brisket
-neck should be longer and leaner

He's big Emma, how old is he now?


----------



## margaret

i see Dancer now

Pros:
-Love the angularity throughout and lovely dairyness
-upstanding
-STRONG pasterns
-Very smoothly blended
-Long body
-strong topline
-Long neck
-good depth of barrel

Cons:
-Rump needs to be a bit more level
-needs a little more brisket


----------



## Scottyhorse

For Dancer:
Love her general appearance
Very nice, smooth blending throughout
Long over the topline and loin
Fairly level rump
Straight front legs
Strong pasterns
Nice feet
Great width between her hocks
Decent spring of rib for her age
Lean neck
Love her withers and shoulders
Nice blending in the heart girth
Neck blends well into chest/chest floor and withers
Very nice agularity to the rear legs, but it's almost just a bit too much for my taste. 
Very nice uphill stance
Hocks look to be a nice length

_____

Would like to see a larger, more extended brisket
Neck could be a bit longer
Would like to see a bit more of a feminine head
Rump needs to be longer
Would like to see a bit more length of body


----------



## fishin816

Ok I am going to bust again… question for Sydney… 



How do you tell how strong the pasterns are?!?! And… (don't fire me from all things goat…) where are the pasterns?!? 
AND, what does it mean when they have a "lean neck"?? 


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----------



## Scottyhorse

Here's a chart with goat parts  You can see where the pasterns are. The first actual goat is a picture from KW Farms while she was younger. You can see how her pasterns are weak (they have improved with selenium but will never be super upright..) and the second doe, also from KW Farms has strong pasterns  (this is the second doe http://www.kwfarms.com/kwfarmsihsunshinekisses.htm)


----------



## Scottyhorse

IMO it is hard to describe a lean neck... Let me find some pictures maybe that I can show you.


----------



## fishin816

Any pictures of the lean neck? 


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----------



## Scottyhorse

Well... Betty has a lean neck... :lol: I judged a goat on here that didn't have that lean of a neck, let me see if I can go find it.


----------



## Scottyhorse

Sorry, Cade, I couldn't find it for some reason. Lacie or Emma may be able to explain it better than I.


----------



## fishin816

I know one of them will be able to explain it!!! Thanks on the pasterns!!! 


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----------



## spidy1

Ok, to show you WEEEEEEK pasterns front and back, LOL! ( I don't have this boer any more)


----------



## margaret

This doe has strong pasterns:


----------



## margaret

Emma said this doe needs a leaner neck.


----------



## fishin816

I kind of see what she is meaning… 


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----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

More of a chunky neck, note how it starts thick and doesn't really get any more slender as it reaches the head and neck junction? This doe needs a leaner, more slender neck.








And how this does starts out with a thicker neck where it starts at the front end and it gets more slender as it reaches her head? This doe has a nice, lean dairy neck.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

spidy1 said:


> Ok, to show you WEEEEEEK pasterns front and back, LOL! ( I don't have this boer any more)


I'll do you one better. Beat these pasturns! (preemie kid)


----------



## spidy1

LOL!!!! That looks EXACTLY like the above boer looked almost a year later, I was scared to take a pic :lol: he went for meat!!! His due claws was his hooves, his hooves barely sat on the ground, and selenium didn't help!


----------



## fishin816

I SEE NOW!!!! Thanks Lacie!!! 


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----------



## Scottyhorse

That second Saanan doe is beautiful


----------



## Scottyhorse

Would I be able to post a doeling?


----------



## margaret

Yeah sure


----------



## Scottyhorse

Okay  She is 4 months.


----------



## fishin816

Scottyhorse said:


> Okay  She is 4 months.


Is that Carolina's doe?

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----------



## Scottyhorse

Yes it is


----------



## Emzi00

I come home, ready to judge some goats, and there's a nigi... I have a rule about Nigerians.  Lacie or Ariella will have to cover this one..


----------



## margaret

Do Dancer then!


----------



## Emzi00

Ugh, fine. I had a plan to fall off the face of the earth, but I guess I'll stick around and do Dancer. Couple minutes...

Oh, Bear's five months now. I swear when he sees a camera he contorts himself in the worst ways possible.. :lol:


----------



## margaret

Why did you want to fall off the face of the earth?!?!?


----------



## margaret

I can set my doe Della up fine but when my sister comes to help me take pictures she insists on putting her legs exactly where I don't want them.


----------



## Emzi00

Dancer:

Pros:
Strong pasterns
Clean, straight front legs
Good amount of angulation in her rear legs, almost too much for my liking
Smooth blending throughout
Decent length of body
Strong topline
Nice sharp withers
Decent depth of body
Good width between the hocks
Very feminine
Fare amount of dairy character

Cons:
Short, steep rump
Needs a longer, more slender neck... she looks chubby. :lol:
Could use more extension of brisket
I'd like to see her face more dishy, it almost looks a bit roman, but I like them more swiss looking, it may be just me. 

Overall, she sucks.   No, she's growing into a nice little doe, bring her back when she has an udder.


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> Why did you want to fall off the face of the earth?!?!?


Reasons that really shouldn't be spoken of... :lol:


----------



## margaret

Oh it can't be THAT bad Emma.


----------



## Emzi00

It really, _really_ can. I'll take it to the grave. :lol:


----------



## fishin816

Can I post a pic of my baby wether? Just for kicks and grins? 


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----------



## margaret

fishin816 said:


> Can I post a pic of my baby wether? Just for kicks and grins?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


 yeah sure


----------



## margaret

Emzi00 said:


> It really, _really_ can. I'll take it to the grave. :lol:


No it can't.
WHAT did you do Emma?


----------



## fishin816

Horrible picture of a little baby!!! He was not happy about this leading session&#8230; we were preparing him for the show in September&#8230;

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----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> No it can't.
> WHAT did you do Emma?


You wouldn't want to know even if I would tell you.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Thanks y'all for your input on Dancer!
I definitely agree that she could have a prettier neck, and that her face could be more dairy, but I went out and looked at her again and her face is a lot like her brothers, but slightly less dished and narrow. It might just have been the pic....









And yes, she is chubby  She gorges herself on hay all day long.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Emma, we need to know....:whatgoat: What did you do?
For Scottyhorse's doeling:
Fair length/levelness
Good feet and legs
Nice height in her rear 
Needs more brisket
Needs more body capacity
Could use a lot more arch in the rear
Could be flatter over the topline
Good strength in the chine
Smoothly blended
Neck looks to be long and lean

There's probably a lot I'm missing, LOL, but my phone is a pain to type on, and I can't see the pics too well.....
I'll try and edit this later


----------



## margaret

Emzi00 said:


> You wouldn't want to know even if I would tell you.


But you WILL tell me and I DO want to know.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Can I post pics of my herd?  I'm not very good at telling confirmation, I've only been breeding goats for 2 and a half years. 

_________________________________________________

*Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com

Home to a small herd of 4 does, 1 wether and 4 bucks.

~Charisa~


----------



## fishin816

DesertFlowerNigerians said:


> Can I post pics of my herd?  I'm not very good at telling confirmation, I've only been breeding goats for 2 and a half years.
> 
> _________________________________________________
> 
> *Desert Flower Ranch Nigerian Dwarf Goats*
> http://www.desertflowerranchaz.com
> 
> Home to a small herd of 4 does, 1 wether and 4 bucks.
> 
> ~Charisa~


Sure

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----------



## goatlady1314

Critique my calf


----------



## margaret

I don't know how to critique cows


----------



## fishin816

margaret said:


> I don't know how to critique cows


Pretty much the same way as dairy goats&#8230;

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----------



## Scottyhorse

fishin816 said:


> Pretty much the same way as dairy goats&#8230;
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Actually there are quite a few differences.


----------



## goatlady1314

Do it!!


----------



## COgoatLover25

Geesh...I have some catching up to do :lol:


----------



## goatlady1314

Lynn! :O


----------



## JaclynnKappus

hundred percent bore six months old and much fatter now but what do you think from what you can see .... I would like to get into showing but have a lot more to learn just looking for an opinion on how you would rate him ( pros and con)

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----------



## COgoatLover25

JaclynnKappus said:


> View attachment 75389
> hundred percent bore six months old and much fatter now but what do you think from what you can see .... I would like to get into showing but have a lot more to learn just looking for an opinion on how you would rate him ( pros and con)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


If you could get a better picture from the side with him set up that would be good


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

thegoatgirl said:


> Thanks y'all for your input on Dancer!
> I definitely agree that she could have a prettier neck, and that her face could be more dairy, but I went out and looked at her again and her face is a lot like her brothers, but slightly less dished and narrow. It might just have been the pic....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, she is chubby  She gorges herself on hay all day long.


I laughed SO hard when I did not look at her and assumed she was a buck LOL LOL LOL LOL!!! :lol: :slapfloor::slapfloor::slapfloor::lol::lol:


----------



## LamanchaAcres

I have a doe i would like critiqued when you guys have a chance. 


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----------



## COgoatLover25

LamanchaAcres said:


> I have a doe i would like critiqued when you guys have a chance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


You can go ahead and post  I'll just start from here


----------



## LamanchaAcres

One of our lamancha yearlings








And if you guys dont mind heres our other yearling. 








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----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

looks like they have nice rump angles,
I prefer their necks to be a bit more "dairy"
the brisket on Yearling #1 seems nice as well as her topline
Thats all I can post now! so busy


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Thanks! Would love to hear what the others think. 


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----------



## margaret

You need to do these gals first Lindsey.
I'll go after you.


----------



## margaret

Emma................................Did I flunk? http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f231/critiques-please-170107/


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Anyone else? I want to hear some other critiques so i can determine which bucks to put them in with. Breeding season starts for us in less than a week! 


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----------



## margaret

O.K For the first one:
Pros:
~nice brisket
~nice rump
~Strong pasterns
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~Nice angulation of rear legs
~Nice depth of barrel
~O.K length to body and rump
Cons:
~Needs a longer neck
~Needs a leaner neck
~Could use a touch more angularity throughout

Overall a beautiful doe


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ 1st Lamancha Yearling ~

*PROS-*

Nice length of body

Good depth throughout

Ok levelness of rump

Strong pasterns

Blends smoothly

Straight front legs

Ok brisket

*CONS-*

Could use a bit more angularity to rear legs

Toes out in rear

Rump needs to be longer

Can't see neck very well but guessing that it could be leaner


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ 2nd Lamancha Yearling ~


PROS-


Nice length of body

Good depth in rear barrel and heart girth

Ok angularity to rear legs

Straight front legs

Strong pasterns

Strong top line

Upstanding

Nice rump


CONS-


Needs more brisket

Neck could be longer and more refined

Rump could be a bit longer


----------



## COgoatLover25

If anyone else has a goat ( buck or doe ) that they would like to post, please feel free to say so


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

How about Temper??


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

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----------



## COgoatLover25

HappyCaliGoats said:


> How about Temper??
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


That would be absolutely wonderful!


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Ok but for some reason I can't get the udder shots to come through as large pix so can we just do a profile shot? Sorry her neck is wrinkled from the collar.. I didn't have anyone to take the pic!








Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

~ Temperance ~

*PROS-*

Nice length of body

Long and lean dairy neck

Fairly long/level rump

Ok brisket

Good breed character

Strong top line

Blends smoothly

Strong pasterns

Ok angulation of rear legs

*CONS-*

Needs a bit more angulation in rear legs

Would like to see a bit more depth

Could be more upstanding

Needs better extension of brisket


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

And perfect teats! Lol! She was just milked out in that pic but you really can't see her udder from the side even when she's full..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

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----------



## COgoatLover25

HappyCaliGoats said:


> And perfect teats! Lol! She was just milked out in that pic but you really can't see her udder from the side even when she's full..
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


You should post udder pics then ! :lol:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

I got an udder for you!! Right here!!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm




----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

And they get bigger!!


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

I'm telling u the pic won't come out!








Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

HappyCaliGoats said:


> I'm telling u the pic won't come out!
> View attachment 76009
> 
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


You mean not big enough? Because I can resize it


----------



## VincekFarm

After you guys critique Temper is it okay if I post a picture of a doe?


----------



## COgoatLover25

VincekFarm said:


> After you guys critique Temper is it okay if I post a picture of a doe?


Ok, you can post your doe and then we better wait for Margaret and whoever else to get on and critique before we post more


----------



## VincekFarm

Well, this got completely ignored so I'm just deleting the pictures off of it. Thanks.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

COgoatLover25 said:


> You mean not big enough? Because I can resize it


Make it bigger Lindsey!

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

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----------



## COgoatLover25

Can't really see it all that well, might be a good idea to get another pic


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

In the meantime... Big Momma's udder?


----------



## COgoatLover25

InTheCrookedPinesFarm said:


> In the meantime... Big Momma's udder?


I'll give it a go but I gotta warn ya! I'm horrible at udders lol


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Lol, here they are.







I don't know nothing about them ether! I just know her's are easy to milk.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

COgoatLover25 said:


> Can't really see it all that well, might be a good idea to get another pic


Ya I didnt even realize how crooked she was standing from that tiny pic!

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

How about this old pic for temper? Still standing crooked.. Sorry she gets nervous on the stand...








Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list 

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Scottyhorse

For Temper:
Pros:
LOVE that looong neck!
Shows breed character
Long rump
Rump is fairly level
Nice front end assembly
Topline is pretty level
Nice general appearance
Good blending to the rear barrel
Nice feet
Front legs look good
Pasterns are strong
Shoulders and withers are tight
Nice blending from neck into withers and into the chest floor
Probably has nice width between the hocks


Cons:
Lacking brisket
Rear legs need to be more angular
I would like to see her withers sharper 
Looks like she toes out, possibly in the front as well (but could be the way she is standing) 
Would like to see better blending in the hear girth

Pretty doe


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Thanx  yes she does toe out in the rear..  not the front though


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, 1 Pygmy/ Nigerian wether, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## AriesBis

Hi

If you need something to do,

I have pics of my 4 month old does that should be fun to critique!. They're uh.. well.... lets just say the PROS list will be VERY short!! Lol.


----------



## margaret

Sure, what breed are they?


----------



## AriesBis

That is a good question! I know their sire was a ND. Their Dams are part of an unmanaged pretty much wild herd.


----------



## margaret

You can post 'em whenever you want.


----------



## AriesBis

Ok this is Laverne (purple collar) and Shirley (pink collar)

I hope I posed them well enough. We are still learning!


----------



## margaret

Laverne:
Cons:
~Steep rump
~Needs to be more uphill
~Weak pasterns
~lacks brisket
~short body
Pros:
~lean neck
~good angulation of rear legs


----------



## AriesBis

Yeah, they are funny looking but I love em!


----------



## Scottyhorse

Hey, they aren't as bad as you made em out to be!


----------



## AriesBis

Oh yeah? Maybe a handsome buck will be just the thing they need!


----------



## chloes

i agree on them just needing a handsome buck lol hlala:


----------



## AriesBis

Well Im glad they're not AS terrible, conformation wise, as I thought they were. Maybe they will have wonderful udders and beautiful kids! :think:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

I think they're cute!


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Would y'all like to do my doe??? I know a couple of cons on her...but I think y'all could find more.


----------



## margaret

Sure


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

I am FINALLY going to post pics of the herd! :-D Pics coming up...


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Okay. This is my Herd Queen - T'Pau and her udder pics (they're the best pics I could get, as I'm just not up to going outside into 115 degree heat and taking pics. 






















Please let me know her Pros and Cons.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Next, here's my First Freshener - Pebbles. I do not have an udder pic for her. 








Please also let me know her pros and cons.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Next, here's my Junior Doe - HoneyBun. Someone gave her to me. :-D I have been trying to breed her for quite some time. Again, these are not great pics of my herd, but please let me know what you think.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Now, here's a pic of my Wether - Lightning Strike (note the strikes on his sides ;-)). He is a wether, so I wasn't looking for him to be "perfect" when I purchased him. Please let me know his Pros and Cons.


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

I will try to get "good" pics of my bucks and my other Senior doe soon, right now they are all fury and fluffy.  Thank you!


----------



## goatlady1314

Nice goats charisa!


----------



## Udderly_Obsessed

Hi, Definitely a better rear udder attachment would be better... but her fore attachment is not bad 
Sugar Brook Farm/registered Nigerian Dwarfs


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Thanks!  Anyone else?


----------



## margaret

Sorry Charisa I'm not very good at critiquing anyway but's it's especially hard if the goats aren't set up


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

margaret said:


> Sorry Charisa I'm not very good at critiquing anyway but's it's especially hard if the goats aren't set up


Okay. I'm really sorry I couldn't get good pics of my goats. I'll try to soon, but now we ran out of good batteries for the camera.  I can POSSIBLY take pics with the computer.  If you can sort of get an IDEA, by the pictures that I have so far, that would help.


----------



## Chadwick

Ok, here we go, this is your pro con list as I see it....

Pebbles and lightning strike are gonna be lonely.

Because I love t'pau and honeybun, and I am coming to steal them away!


----------



## Emzi00

Chad, you are a judge in the making, a true prodigy. :applaud: :lol:


----------



## Chadwick

Hey, do what you know.....you know?!?!


----------



## Chadwick

Yeah, I line up the goats in order then steal the first three!!!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Margaret, would you like me to post your new buckling? :smile:


----------



## margaret

Sure!!!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okey doke  Here's Cob Cottage Jasper's Revolution, aka Revolt at just over three months! He was NOT cooperating when I took this pic, he is normally more level and smoother blended.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

He is sooo beautiful!! @thegoatgirl!!
Sorry for not getting my doe posted! I'm getting a new camera! So...never fear! I'll have her posted soon!!


----------



## margaret

Only 5 days (hopefully) till Revolt ships to NC! YAY!!:fireworks::leap::stars::wahoo:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Shipping by plane?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Huh???


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

I was asking Margret if she was shipping her new boy by a plane


----------



## margaret

Yep, American Airlines.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Cool  I used United, but heard that AA is cheaper  my airport just doesn't have AA so united was the best I could use  they were good


----------



## margaret

My other option was Delta Cargo but AA is cheaper


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Oh yah Delta is insane!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

What's he weigh?


----------



## thegoatgirl

LBNP, he is over 50 pounds currently. I was a little disappointed, because five pounds less and the shipping price would have been cut in half :sigh:

Going to get the health cert now, Margaret


----------



## margaret

Yay!


----------



## margaret

Lacie can you critique him for me?


----------



## thegoatgirl

Anyone wanna do Revolt....?


----------



## margaret

I will if you do him afterwards


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okay!


----------



## margaret

Not how I usually how I do it but for Revolution:
He needs more angularity throughout and also more length.
He stands well on strong, straight legs, very nice pasterns and tight toes.

Come quickly Revolution!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Pros:
Very dairy
Strong pasterns
Deep heels
Straight legs
Does not toe out (in the pic it looks like he does slightly in the rear, but not at home)
Level over the topline
Smoothly blended
Very strong in the chine
Long, lean dairy neck
Fair brisket
Gorgeous head
Good body capacity
Good dairy wedge
Very wide throughout
Good arch in the rear
Strong back
Excellent dairy skin
Flat boned


Cons:
Could use a bit more length
Needs more angulation
Could use slightly more bone
Ears could be higher set on head


----------



## margaret

I like the long pro list


----------



## thegoatgirl

LOL! :laugh:


----------



## DesertFlowerNigerians

Chadwick said:


> Ok, here we go, this is your pro con list as I see it....
> 
> Pebbles and lightning strike are gonna be lonely.
> 
> Because I love t'pau and honeybun, and I am coming to steal them away!


Oh no you don't!!! I could possibly part with Honey Bun, but NO WAY T'Pau!!! She is my BABY! And, my herd queen. ;-) If you come by here trying to steal any of my babies, I'll stick the dogs on you, and I tell the herd king!!! ;-)


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Is that good enough? Lol, I milked her and then decided I'd take pictures of her today! Maybe I can get her with her udder full tomorrow. 
Sorry for the wait. I got a new phone and had no camera to take pictures with.


----------



## ndwarf

Can you get her set up? I do notice that she is on the thin side.


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Yeah, she's always been on the thin side. You should've seen her when we first got her. She almost died. The people we got her from weren't taking care of her. 
The vet thought she was going to die. She's been through a bit.


----------



## COgoatLover25

This thread has sorta died  Don't let it! :lol:
I'm gonna post a pic of Moon to hopefully get the flow going again


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Um...nice looking goat? She has a very even looking body?? Lol, everything looks to match up? Her back is perfectly blended to her tail/butt? 
Bahahaha!! Lol, I'll leave this stuff to y'all! She's nice!


----------



## spidy1

I love her color! I'm not a good dairy judge!:-D Here's my new Lamancha doeling, Calypso...


----------



## margaret

If I get my work done i'll do these goats later today.
I'm kinda out of practice


----------



## thegoatgirl

COgoatlover's doe:

Pros~
GORGEOUS dairy character
Love that long, lean neck!
Good blending from the withers into the neck
Fair length
Rump is fairly level
Good dairy wedge
Looks to have strong pasterns
Nice straight legs, from what I can see
Toes point straight ahead
Tight toes
Good angulation (not positive about this, I know that Nubs tend to have different rear leg sets..)

Cons~
Would like to see her stronger in the chine
Needs more body capacity
Back could be leveler
Needs more bone
Ears look like they could use less control
Would like to see more brisket

I love her coloring! :grin: She's a gorgeous doe!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm feeling a bit judgy today 

*For Moon~*

*Cons:*
Needs a more level rump
Needs a lot more depth in the rear barrel
Needs some more body capacity
Could use some more depth of girth
Rear legs are a bit too angled for my taste, they are on the edge of being sickle
Needs more brisket
Shoulder could be a bit smoother
Could have a cleaner neck/jaw junction for a bit more femininity
I would like to move the thurls up a bit higher
Bit weak in the rear pasturns
Lacking some power in the front end assembly

*Pros:*
Nice, uphill stature
Nice top line
Really nice strength in the chine
Nice, prominent withers
Long, lean neck
Nice smooth blending from the neck to the withers
Smooth from the neck to the brisket, brisket to chest floor
Chest floor blends nicely into the heart girth
Good blending into the rear barrel
Long bodied
Long bone pattern 
Very fine boned
Lots of dairy character 
Lots of femininity
Could use a little more refinement in the flank, but it's pretty good
Good front pasturns
Nice straight fore legs

Need front and rear shots for further judging. And a head pic
Now it looks like she was in milk in this picture? Was she bagged up?....


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

*For Calypso ~*

*Cons:*
Steep rump
Rear legs could point more straight ahead, they toe out a bit
Needs a slightly cleaner jaw/neck junction
Needs more brisket
Long pasturns
Could be more uphill
Withers could be a bit more prominent 
Could be a bit tighter in the elbow
Lacking a bit of power in the front end assembly
Could use some refinement in the flank

*Pros:*
Strong pastuns
Nice topline
Good rear leg angulation
Nice straight fore legs
Strong chine
Good blending from the neck into the withers and brisket
Brisket blends nicely into the chest floor
Nice depth in the girth
Good body capacity 
Nice body depth for her age
Decent width
Long, lean neck, could be a tad leaner
Good dairy, and breed character
Tight toes
Decent thurls

Would like to see a rear pic.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Forgot to add that they both had nice long rumps :lol: I'm so forgetful today :ROFL: There's some other stuff missing too, but you get the jist of it...


----------



## thegoatgirl

Yaaay! We have a Lacie-critique! :laugh: Thank you, Lacie! Let the expert take over, peeps :wink:


----------



## spidy1

LOL! I was lucky to get those pics without her eating my hair, she wouldn't let me get a rear one!:roll:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Lol @spidy1


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

One of my ladies ate a nice bit of my hair one time!


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

I'd like to throw a few pictures up, if I may. I have never shown, so I don't know how to set up a goat . 


Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Wow! Some good critiquing happening! 
Thegoatgirl & Little-Bits-N-Pieces, could you pleeaase do that to my goats?? 

I don't really get critiques like that on them  and I would love to 


.....or is this 'dairy only'?


----------



## thegoatgirl

Uhm...I'll try, LOL! I have no experience with non-dairy stock, but I'd love to try. And then you can all laugh at me, and I'll be laughing at myself, too.  :laugh:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Creations_Way_Farm said:


> I'd like to throw a few pictures up, if I may. I have never shown, so I don't know how to set up a goat .
> 
> Crystal
> Creations Way Farm
> Bedford, Indiana
> Registered Sables


Sure, see what we can do


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Skunk







Double Stuff







Eclipse 







Joy

Alrighty there they are , thank you in advance!

Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Internet messed up during my upload let's try this again....








Skunk







Double







Eclipse

Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> Uhm...I'll try, LOL! I have no experience with non-dairy stock, but I'd love to try. And then you can all laugh at me, and I'll be laughing at myself, too.  :laugh:


I'll give you an easy one then! ;-) and I'll let you laugh...I might to:laugh:

Daisy. I think she's Nubian/Saanen. She's not set up, she soo dislikes being set up, she'll stand funny.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okaaay, CPK, for Daisy  Not complete, I'm short on time and I'll try and edit it later :wink:

Pros~
Nice dairy character
Lean neck
Good pasterns in the rear
Nice deep heels
Legs are straight behind the knees
Good blending from the withers into her neck
Pretty head, for a Saanen
Fairly deep jaw
Looks to have good width throughout
Nice large, flaring nostrils that are still tight
Good rump width
Fair dairy wedge
Okay brisket

Cons~
Short bodied
Rump is very steep
Dorsal process is raised
Neck could be longer
Needs more body capacity


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

:clap: Thanks for that!!! and ok  Wanna try a Daisy's daughter? She's a Kiko X...


----------



## thegoatgirl

Sure!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Arighty, here she is! She is really hard to get pictures off  But she's definitely looking way better then this spring!






















For reference, I've attached a picture of her sire, Mocca.








P.S.: here's a link to the Kiko standard. https://canadianmeatgoat.com/kiko ...I know the standard, but have a hard time comparing it to goats!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Do you have any pics of her with her head up from the side?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

This is the best I got of her recently  Yes, I was playing with it, lol! Found a great editing place ... www.picmonkey.com ...away, how's this?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

After Cedar Point Kikos is done I got some photos of my alpine.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okay doke! ITCPF, do you want to go ahead and post the pics?

Pros~
Fair dairy wedge
Good blending from neck into withers
Good dairy character
Nice feet and legs
Legs are straight behind the knees


Cons~
Severely steep in the rear
Severely roached
Posty rear legs
No brisket
Needs a lot more body capacity
Neck needs to be leaner and longer


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

She's almost dry btw. She's registered American Alpine.
And she looks prettier in real life if I may say so myself.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Pros~
Fairly long across the topline
Nice straight legs
Legs are straight behind the knees
Nice width throughout
Wide, flaring nostrils
Long bone pattern
Fair width throughout
Okay brisket
Fair dairy wedge
Good dairy character


Cons~
Needs stronger pasterns
Needs more angulation
Would like to see more body capacity
Neck could be slightly longer and leaner
Ears could be higher set on the head
Dorsal process is raised


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

That is really good! I've always thought her ears could come up a little. :'D but I thought she had strong patterns...is it her face that throws off her pattern? I'd like to learn how y'all can look at goats and know all that stuff!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Well, I could have gone on, but I was too lazy, LOL. If you want a goat expert, go to Lacie (LBNP)! 

Just look at ADGA's instructional charts, and memorize the score card, haha! That's what I've tried to do...


----------



## thegoatgirl

Here's an animal that has nice strong pasterns:


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Okay, thanks! Pretty kid!


----------



## thegoatgirl

You're welcome


----------



## Emzi00

Here guys, get some more practice..


----------



## thegoatgirl

I'm done for today...other folks can handle it :greengrin:


----------



## Emzi00

Good, the others need more practice than you. :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

I'll consider that a compliment....


----------



## Emzi00

It was, so yeah. :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

:razz:


----------



## thegoatgirl

BTW, nice background! Did you edit it, or was it there already?


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Pros: 
perfectly gorgeous
Too amazing
The most beautiful goat I've ever seen...
Awesome legs
Nice long body
Graceful looking
Really pretty
Nice pretty neck

Cons:
Needs more hair...you've shaved her of her dignity...
 :'D bahahaha ha!!!
That's why y'all do the judging!!


----------



## Emzi00

It was already there, that's at MSU campus from the 4H state show. 

Lol, thanks. I'm pretty happy with her so far.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Lucky..you get pre-made backgrounds! Al we have id sand and weeds, LOL! :laugh:


----------



## Emzi00

Well, I try to get good pictures at shows because we don't really have a good spot at home.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Same here


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Love the horns 


Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Can anyone critique the boys I posted Purdy please?


Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> Okay doke! ITCPF, do you want to go ahead and post the pics?
> 
> Pros~
> Fair dairy wedge
> Good blending from neck into withers
> Good dairy character
> Nice feet and legs
> Legs are straight behind the knees
> 
> Cons~
> Severely steep in the rear
> Severely roached
> Posty rear legs
> No brisket
> Needs a lot more body capacity
> Neck needs to be leaner and longer


The thing I don't like about her is her hind end  but she's been smoothing out a bit lately, it's not quite as bad  and I really like her width 

I should get a better picture of her soon... :think:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

For fun. I'll give the latest ones all a try 

_Emzi00: (Oberhasli girl)_
Pros:
-Strong pasturns
-Nice long legs
-Legs are strong, long and balanced with the body
-Nice rump
-Uphill
-Nice neck
-I like her head set
-Good body length & capacity
-Looks to have good width

Cons:
-Neck/shoulders/whole back could be better blended
-Could use more brisket
-To me, at least, I think her hindquarters should be a tad bigger...they seem small compared to her shoulders

_And Creations_Way_Farm, I'll give your boys a shot! _

*Your tan boy (Skunk):*
Pros:
-Good brisket
-Pretty good rump
-Nice build - fairly smooth, well blended
-Good strong legs & pasturns
-Looks to be, at least a bit, uphill
-Topline is nice, but could be better
-I like his hind legs and his shoulder
-Good body capacity
-Looks to have nice width

Cons:
-Neck/ shoulders could be better blended
-Maybe a tad ewe-necked?
-Scrotum seems odd-shaped
-Topline could be smoother
*
Black & White (Double):*
Hard to critique him because of the way he's standing....
Pros:
-looks to have a nice neck
-Again, strong legs/pasturns
-Nice rump
-Looks to be well blended
-Good body capacity

Cons:
-Dip in chine
-Not as uphill as Skunk
-Maybe a bit narrow?
-Could be smoother overall

*Black ( Eclipse)*:
Very hard to critique him...
Pros:
-Nice topline
-Strong legs/pasturns

Cons:
-Seems kinda scrawny and small....
-Steep rump

*Joy:*
Pros:
-Cute coloring!
-Nice width
-Smooth topline
-Good body - smooth, well blended, looks to have good body capacity..
-Sturdy legs (had to find another word for 'strong legs', lol! )
-Nice ear set

Cons:
-Steep rump
-Could be more uphill
-Neck looks short?

Ok! Think I got all of 'em!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

How did I do? Thegoatgirl? Lacey? Emzi00? 

I'll post more of my goats later...give some other people a turn  AND goatgirl, they are Kiko and Boer X !   So be prepared, lol


----------



## thegoatgirl

I will be  I'm gonna wait till tomorrow to do any more..my brain is fizzled out.


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Thank you!! Eclipse was young when I took his picture.....I'll have to get more when breeding season is over, lol 
I will take better pics of Joy soon for ya 


Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Your welcome...that was fun! And ok, Joy's a really cute girl


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Emzi00 said:


> Alright, I want all you guys to find as many pros as you possibly can. Ignore the cons for now. Even simple pros, find them all, go in depth.


Sorry, this one is waaay back on page 24, but I thought I' try  Just ignore this, lol 

Pros:
-Ok width between front legs
-Neck/shoulder blends ok (EDIT: Aha! Been reading the other folks critiques on her, and realized what I mean here. lol! It's tight, doesn't have a falling-apart-look.)
-I like how her udder is still round, not droopy/saggy
-Udder is still well attached
-Teats are a comfortable size for milking
-Legs are pretty straight
-Good depth in chest area
-I like her thurls
-And she's kinda cute! 

That's all.  Cons list could be 5x the size of the Pros list! :laugh:

Emma? You were 'teaching' that one...how'd I do? 



Emzi00 said:


> Okay, cons.... shoot. And if y'all miss any.... I might cry...... :wink:


Alrighty!

Cons:
-Short bodied
-Steep rump
-Body is course, not feminine
-No Dairy character at all throughout the body
-Short neck
-Weak-ish pasturns
-Front legs are to 'fine' for her body
-Hips are higher the withers
-Topline is uneven
-Needs more brisket
-Head is too course and unfeminine and has a bit of a curve to it
-Poor spring of rib
-Slab sided
-Hind legs are posty
-The arch between her teats is very low...I would think that would make it harder to milk her...
-Throat-latch could be more refined, smoother
-Neck-to-shoulder (on front end picture) could be blended smoother

Ok, teacher Emma! I'm doonne! 

....although, I must say, Goathiker seems to be really good at explaining and be specific about cons!


----------



## Emzi00

You get a C +, maybe. :lol:

She needs better attachments, her whole rump structure is messed up, steep from hips to pins with too low set of the thurls, and it throws off the angulation in the rear legs, her udder looks to be fairly well balanced when viewed in profile, if that's what you were saying about the shape.


----------



## Emzi00

You did better on the cons but I don't feel like going over it. :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Only a C+ ?! :mecry: maybe??!! (add lill' smiley face bawling it's eyes out )

Her whole back end REALLY bugged me...guess I didn't know exactly what about it did 

...yes that's what I was saying about the shape of the udder  

Do I get a B now? ray: pleeaase, teacher?


----------



## Emzi00

B overall, I guess. I'm not feeling mean today. :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aaaw, thanks! I feel better now :dance:


----------



## COgoatLover25

~For Emma's doe~

*PROS-*

Nice Angularity to rear legs

Fair length of neck

Strong pasterns ( front )

Nice length of body

Blends pretty smoothly throughout

Fairly sharp withers

Nice strength in the chine

Ok depth in heart girth ( could have more )

Good dairy character

Nice levelness of rump

*CONS-*

Needs better extension of brisket

Would like to see more depth in rear barrel

Would like to see her rump be longer/leveler

Could be a bit more upstanding

Neck could be leaner/more refined

Pasterns could be a bit more upright in rear

Could have a cleaner cut neckline for more femininity

Appears to toe out in front and back

Frostbit ears...:lol:

I can see Emma's hand coming to slap me now :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

Emma, here ya go  

Is she a bit chubby? It looks like she might be :razz:

Pros~
Fair length
Rump looks nice and wide
Rump is level
Front pasterns look nice and strong
Withers blend smoothly into her neck
Looks to be fairly strong in the chine
Toes look to be tight
Fair angulation
Fairly long bone pattern
Good neck length
Nostrils are wide and flaring
Good depth to the jaw

Cons~
Needs more body capacity
Brisket is almost non-existent
Front legs look like they bend slightly forward (it might be the picture, but they look off)
Toes out in the front
Toes out in the rear
Shallow heels in the rear
Neck needs to be leaner, right now it looks chunky
Would like to see a cleaner neck line
Nose looks slightly like a Nubian's
Ears could be higher set on her head
Ears look slightly floppy?
Possible slight over-bite, or she could be sticking her lip out 
Needs more bone
Slightly raised dorsal process


Don't slap me, I beg you.... *Cowers in a corner*


----------



## Emzi00

COgoatLover25 said:


> I can see Emma's hand coming to slap me now :lol:


Umm, yeah, kinda! :slapfloor: The offer still stands if you ever want to call me and talk about conformation..


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Umm, yeah, kinda! :slapfloor: The offer still stands if you ever want to call me and talk about conformation..


That bad :doh: I'll edit later cause I just took a few pain meds so I'm kinda drowsy :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

Pain meds for what? A pony, ahem, horse, kicked you again?
Hope you're okay


----------



## COgoatLover25

thegoatgirl said:


> Pain meds for what? A pony, ahem, horse, kicked you again?
> Hope you're okay


Nah, they dug back into my tooth hole a few days ago ( had my wisdoms removed last week.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Ouuuch! I was lucky-I never got my wisdoms pulled


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Icky.. It's no fun..


----------



## Emzi00

Cons:
I'd like to see her more level from hips to pins, and from thurl to thurl. She's slightly hocky in the rear and is a bit shallow in the heels. She could use a bit more width between the hocks as well.
I'd like to see her a bit deeper and wider into the chest floor, with more extension of brisket, and her neck blended a touch smoother into the brisket.
I'd like to see her having a bit more length of body, being cleaner cut in the throat jaw area, and a slightly leaner neck.


Pros:
In the front, she has deep heels, tight toes all the way around, nice straight and clean front legs, and a good amount of angulation to the rear legs. She's high cut into the escutcheon with a decent arch there.
She blends smoothly from the neck into the withers and shoulders, and fairly smoothly into the bit of brisket she has. She blends well from the brisket into the chest floor, and from the chest floor into the heart girth, and heart into the ribs on back into the rear barrel. 
She's fairly upstanding, with a decent amount of sharpness to her withers, and strength through the chine and loin, creating a nice strong topline.
She has a good amount of dairy character, with nice open ribbing with the rear ribs angling well towards the flank, soft smooth and pliable skin, and being pretty open and angular overall. 
I admittedly don't like her ears, but it adds character, lol. She has good width and depth in the muzzle, with big nostrils and well spaced apart eyes.
She has a good amount of depth in the heart girth, and a decent amount back into the rear barrel. She's a big girl, lol, good capacity.

Sorry it took so long, I got busy. And not chubby, she's in good condition.  It happens with dry yearlings, lol. They sit around and get fat. I might have missed stuff too. :lol:

Okay, compare results.


----------



## thegoatgirl

We need pics from the rear and front :wink:


----------



## Emzi00

Yeah, that's not going to happen. :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

*Sticks out tongue* No fair! You have an advantage!

Do I need to slap you?


----------



## Emzi00

Well of course I do, she's my doe. :lol: You'd have an advantage with yours. 
Go ahead, I don't really care, it'd be my honor to be slapped for being awesome.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Judging any goats at the moment? If not, I'll post a challenge for Ariella...


----------



## margaret

OK I have some work to do.
I'll start with Moon.
Pros: Really nice dairy character. Good angulation throughout, long, lean neck. smoothly blended. Strong chine. Nice and level across the topline. Uphill from hips to withers. nice straight front legs. Long bodied and nice long rump.

Cons: rather steep rump. Pasterns could be stronger. Needs more brisket. Also needs more depth.

How did i do???


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ummm....who's Moon?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Ummm....who's Moon?


My spotted Nubian doe


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, going to see if I can find her 

Later... aha! Found her!  Ok:

Pros:
-Smooth through neck/shoulders
-Rump is pretty level for a Nubian
-Nice body length 
-Nice depth in the barrel
-Looks to have good spring of ribs
-Straight front legs
-Long, feminine neck
-Shoulders are higher then withers
-Topline looks pretty smooth for a Nubian ( I hear that they tend to dip?)

Cons:
-I don't like how her hocks are not in line with the rest of her leg, it makes the leg look weak
-Could use more brisket
-Shoulder to chine could blend more smoothly


How's that?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

What did Margaret and I miss / get wrong / get right?


----------



## Creations_Way_Farm

Here is the backside of skunk if that helps 






















Crystal
Creations Way Farm
Bedford, Indiana
Registered Sables


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Handsome boy! Neat coloring as well 

Ok, so what I see is:

-from hips to hocks looks nice and straight
-Hocks tilt in slightly
-For a dairy buck, I think he's got decent width in the back end
-Looks like his width is carried well from hips to shoulders
-Thurls seem pretty level ??
-Again, nice body
-Nice straight front legs


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok! Here's a young doe for some beginners to take a shot at! (for those who want to learn a bit about meat goat critiquing ) 
Isabelle is a high percentage Boer doeling, and is 6/7 months old. 

....and Ariella, since you said you're not too good at meat breeds, you can give her a try too!


----------



## COgoatLover25

I edited my post on Emma's doe...not sure if I made it better or worse :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Nobody likes Isabelle? :tears:


----------



## thegoatgirl

I'll try to do her tomorrow....I'm totally exhausted right now (just got back from team practice).


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aww, thanks!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okaaayyy.....

I'm going on the little bit I've learned about Boers, and then some dairy 

Pros~
Good strength in the chine
Fair width between the hocks
Fair ears
Good blending from withers into neck

Cons~
Very steep rump
Face needs to be more Roman lol
Needs more length
Needs more bone
Needs a lot more width throughout
Toes out
Is cow-hocky

Go ahead, laugh :laugh: We need a Boer person on here


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

:ROFL: There, I laughed  Did well though! :applaud: Now, who's good at critiquing Boers here?

Pros: 
-Good brisket
-Good depth in heart girth and barrel
-Nice, straight legs
-Neck/shoulder/front legs all blend nicely
-I like her shoulders, not quite sure why yet...
-Fairly good topline
-Ok spring of barrel
-Nice muscling on hind leg
-Rump is a nice width compared to the rest of her
-Ok width between hocks
-Chine/loin strong, and looks like the loin might be of a nice length
-Overall smoothly blended

Cons:
-Short bodied
-Steep rump
-Would prefer a more meaty build
-Could use more width throughout her whole body
-Slightly cow-hocked
-Neck could be longer and a bit meatier
-Lacks breed character

(Yes, I'm _slightly _biased, here! )

I think she's the first meat breed placed here, sooo Margaret and Lindsay! 
Wanna try doing her? (It's handy to learn how to critique both meat and dairy animals   )


----------



## margaret

I'll stick with learning dairy:lol:
Here is my Alpine doeling


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Found some Boer people we should get over here, lol!  For coming up behind beginners on Meat Goats, and for pictures of good Boer Goats for beginners to try critique on 

-Toth Boer Goats
-Tenacross
-Crossroads Boers (for pictures of Boer to beginners to critique! 'Cause I love her goats  )
-Saltylove


...IF they want to, that is! Just thinking here


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Awww, really, Margaret? :-(. 

Sigh, ok, I've give your girl a shot, then!
P.S. I've really learned a LOT here! Thanks for starting this thread! :applaud:

Pros:
-Nice topline
-Very uphill
-Very level rump
-Nice width between hocks
-Long, clean legs
-Shoulders are nice and tight
-Well blended body
-Good body length
-Fairly good depth
-Strong chine/loin
-Ok, spring of ribs
-Wide nostrils
-Wide muzzle


Cons:
-Ewe neck
-Neck to shoulder poorly blended
-Neck should be longer
-Weak pasturns
-Narrow chest
-Lacks brisket
-Toed out
-Toes are not tight together
-Head should be more refined and dairy


----------



## Scottyhorse

I'm a boer person too  I do both Boer/meat and dairy


----------



## thegoatgirl

Meg, for your pretty little girl 

Pros~
Level rump
Rump is nice and long
Fair length
Flat boning throughout
Nice and uphill
Fair angulation
Fairly strong pasterns
Nice deep jaw
Forehead is wide
Wide, flaring nostrils
Jaw has fair length
Bone pattern is generally long throughout
Fair brisket
Good width in her rump
Nice dairy wedge
Looks to be fairly open
Good width between the hocks
Fair height in the rear
Good arch in the rear
LOVE that long, lean neck!
Good strength in the chine


Cons~
Needs more in-curve to her thigh
Needs more body capacity
Would like to see a whole lot more bone
Toes out in the rear
Toes out in the front
Severely ewe necked
Needs more width in the fore
Spread toes
Weak pasterns in the rear
Legs twist outwards
Legs are placed to far forward
Legs seem to bend behind the knee


----------



## margaret

Thanks for the critiques
how about this one?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> Meg, for your pretty little girl
> 
> Pros~
> Level rump
> Rump is nice and long
> Fair length
> Flat boning throughout
> Nice and uphill
> Fair angulation
> Fairly strong pasterns
> Nice deep jaw
> Forehead is wide
> Wide, flaring nostrils
> Jaw has fair length
> Bone pattern is generally long throughout
> Fair brisket
> Good width in her rump
> Nice dairy wedge
> Looks to be fairly open
> Good width between the hocks
> Fair height in the rear
> Good arch in the rear
> LOVE that long, lean neck!
> Good strength in the chine
> 
> Cons~
> Needs more in-curve to her thigh
> Needs more body capacity
> Would like to see a whole lot more bone
> Toes out in the rear
> Toes out in the front
> Severely ewe necked
> Needs more width in the fore
> Spread toes
> Weak pasterns in the rear
> Legs twist outwards
> Legs are placed to far forward
> Legs seem to bend behind the knee


I got most of the cons right! :dance: (sorry Margaret  )...and some of the pros


----------



## thegoatgirl

Give me a minute....


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Yes! Sydney ! How'd I (and Ariella ) do on Isabelle, then?


----------



## COgoatLover25

~Margaret's 1st Doe~

*PROS-*

Nice, strong top line

Nice length/levelness of rump

Good angularity to rear legs

Upstanding

Decent width between hocks

Cut pretty high into the escutcheon

Fair length of body

Lean neck

*CONS-*

Ewe neck

Weak pasterns

Needs tighter toes ( all around )

Could use a bit more depth in rear barrel

Needs a bit more depth in heart girth

Toes out in front and rear

Needs better brisket extension

Would like to see neck a bit longer

Could blend more smoothly from neck into withers

Needs to be a bit wider in the chest floor


----------



## thegoatgirl

For Spruce:

~Pros
LOVE the head on this doe! I'm having a very hard time finding something to fault it!
Deep jaw
Excellent width throughout her jaw/forehead
Excellent general appearance
Neck is nice and lean, could be a tad longer
Strong pasterns in the front
Good angulation
Good shoulder assembly
Nice bone
Appears to be very open
Flat-boned
Legs are placed well underneath her withers
Rump is long
Good dairy wedge
Rump is level; could be just a tad more so
Ears are placed well
Fair incurve to her thigh
Strong in the chine
Well-balanced
Level from thurl to thurl
Good dairy wedge
Rump is nice and wide
Appears to have good width throughout
Looks to have ribs angled backwards

Cons~
Weak pasterns in the rear
Toes out in the rear
Toes out in the fore
Spread toes
Cow-hocky
Neck could have a slightly longer crest
Could use more body capacity
Needs just a bit more bone


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

^^ That's part of the reason I didn't critique Spruce, and because I found the pictures dark 


Good, long Pro list though! Later I'll go back and see if I can see them all....


----------



## thegoatgirl

Come on, dooo it! I did your does, and ruined my reputation


----------



## COgoatLover25

~For Margaret's 2nd Doe~

*PROS-*

Nice angulation to rear legs

Fair length of body

Rump is fairly long

Blends pretty smoothly throughout

Upstanding

Sharp withers

Nice long neck

Nice strength in the chine

Clean cut neckline

Sharp withers

Good general appearance

*CONS-*

Rump could be a bit more level ( but not bad )

Needs a little better extension of brisket ( can't see it very well in the pictures )

Weak pasterns

Toes out ( front and rear )

Needs more body capacity

Neck could be a bit leaner


----------



## Scottyhorse

Here's my thoughts on Isabelle:

Pros:
Feminine head
Fairly wide over the top for her age
Teat structure looks alright from what I can see
Rump is a good length
Nice rear pasterns
Wide horn set
good blending in heart girth
good blending into rear barrel
Deep
Topline is fairly level
Good blending from neck into shoulders and chest
Bite appears to be good
Thurls look good



Cons:
Very short sided
Extremely steep rump (which unfortunately messes up her topline and overall general appearance) 
Needs stronger breed character
Very fine bone pattern
Could use a larger spring of rib
Front pasterns appear too upright
Could use a longer neck
Front end assembly is not to my liking... Hard to describe but her shoulders are too large and bulky for the rest of her, which also messes up how her chest floor looks
Rear legs look a bit too angular
Needs more overall body and bone mass
Could be deeper in the twist 

There ya go  Forgot a couple things, but, it's been a long day :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> Come on, dooo it! I did your does, and ruined my reputation


Ok, here goes nothin'!

Pros:
-Uphill
-Long, level topline
-Level rump
-Good brisket
-Long, slender, well blended neck
-Good depth in heart girth
-Looks to have good spring of ribs
-Strong pasterns
-Nice clean strong legs
-Good length
-Strong jaw
-wide muzzle
-Overall nice head - feminine, wide, etc.
-Well blended overall in body

Cons:
-Has a slight dip behind shoulders
-I think (?) legs are a tad long in relation to her body? Makes her body look a bit shorter then it actually is?
-Maybe her head a tad smaller?
-Toes out a bit with her back legs

Note: I didn't read Ariella's post before doing this! ...I'm going to now though


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Couple o' questions:

Sydney:
-What is the 'twist'?
-Why do folks want large bones in Boers? From my understanding, that would make less room for meat...

Ariella:
-What does 'appears to be very open' mean?
-And "Fair incurve to her thigh"?
-And "Flat-boned"?
-And "Looks to have ribs angled backwards"?

P.S. Attached are really recent pictures of Daisy & Kezzi. Has anything changed? Ariella?  ('Member on your last critique of Daisy, you said it wasn't complete  aannd for Kezzi you wanted a 'head up' picture )


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Scottyhorse said:


> Here's my thoughts on Isabelle:
> 
> Pros:
> Feminine head
> Fairly wide over the top for her age
> Teat structure looks alright from what I can see
> Rump is a good length
> Nice rear pasterns
> Wide horn set
> good blending in heart girth
> good blending into rear barrel
> Deep
> Topline is fairly level
> Good blending from neck into shoulders and chest
> Bite appears to be good
> Thurls look good
> 
> Cons:
> Very short sided
> Extremely steep rump (which unfortunately messes up her topline and overall general appearance)
> Needs stronger breed character
> Very fine bone pattern
> Could use a larger spring of rib
> Front pasterns appear too upright
> Could use a longer neck
> Front end assembly is not to my liking... Hard to describe but her shoulders are too large and bulky for the rest of her, which also messes up how her chest floor looks
> Rear legs look a bit too angular
> Needs more overall body and bone mass
> Could be deeper in the twist
> 
> There ya go  Forgot a couple things, but, it's been a long day :lol:


Thanks, Sydney! I'll post pictures of her sister, after a bit. In some areas they are sooo different, I don't know what to think!


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Now I'm going to add another to the pile 
This is my doe I'm gong to be eting in about 2 months. Her name is Rubystar NQ Cid's Sunnalei 
she is bred to +*B SGCH Copper-Hill Breakaway's Sonset
She is a yearling in the pictures so she's leggy and does not have a very good capacity (thank goodnes she does now!) and her udder is not full (5 hours after milking) but you get he general idea, I would also like pinions on what her kids will be like (from copper hills breakaway) I also addedpics of her aunts and a pic of some of Copper hills daughters (udder views the grly' are "brown") (oh and thats me showing Sunna, it was my first time in the show ring.)


----------



## Scottyhorse

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Couple o' questions:
> 
> Sydney:
> -What is the 'twist'?
> -Why do folks want large bones in Boers? From my understanding, that would make less room for meat...
> 
> Here is a good explanation of the twist from Pam  If you want, I can make a picture to show you.
> 
> 
> 
> toth boer goats said:
> 
> 
> 
> The slope of the rump beginning on the top line at the point of the hips and going to the tail should not be steep...(straight down) and the distance between those two points should be long.... When looked at from the side the hind leg should be full and well-rounded, extending all the way to the hock. Viewed from the rear, the rump should be wide, full and deep. Beginning from the hairless area under the tail and extending to the point at which the legs split apart is the "twist". A buck's twist should be deep. The rump in that area should be wide and heavily muscled. It is a plus if a doe also has some depth to her twist. The doe will carry more femininity in her muscling than the buck....
> 
> 
> 
> You want large bone mass in Boer's because they _can_ carry more meat on their frame.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

A picture would help  I think I sorta kinda got the idea....

And ok: more bone means can carry more meat


----------



## Scottyhorse

Here's a picture of my doe, Ellie. She's got a deep twist


----------



## Scottyhorse

And for Boer/meat practice, here's a side shot of Ellie.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Couple o' questions:
> Ariella:
> -What does 'appears to be very open' mean?
> -And "Fair incurve to her thigh"?
> -And "Flat-boned"?
> -And "Looks to have ribs angled backwards"?
> 
> P.S. Attached are really recent pictures of Daisy & Kezzi. Has anything changed? Ariella?  ('Member on your last critique of Daisy, you said it wasn't complete  aannd for Kezzi you wanted a 'head up' picture )


CPK, you want a dairy goat to be "long, dairy, and open throughout," or something very close to that, according to ADGA. The ribs should be "far apart, flat and flinty, and angling towards the thighs." Now, that may not be completely accurate, I'm quoting on memory right now. If you have a guidebook, I would definitely read that. 

Flat boned applies to the same thing, you want the bones to be as flat as possible without being frail. Here are two does that are very open, flat boned, and have ribs angled well back towards their thighs. They also have nicely incurved thighs. These pics are old, they have matured a good bit since then.




I will critique y'all's goats later, I'm on the move right now and am on limited time :|


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Someone do mine!!!!! :wallbang: :hammer: :crazy:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ohhh, I see Sydney! Thanks 

I think I got the general idea, Ariella  But why do you want flat bones? I think I get why you want the ribs far apart and angling toward the thighs.


Practicing on Ellie:
Pros:
-Deep in the heart girth and barrel
-Love the meat on her hindquarters!
-Rump is nice and fairly level for a Boer
-Shoulder/neck blends very well
-Neck is long and feminine (for a Boer)
-Stocky, strong legs
-Big,well formed feet
-Good pasterns
-Rump is long
-Good body length
-Tight toes
-Overall body is well blended
-Very wide between hocks
-I think how wide and meaty she is
-Good pigment
-Good breed character
-Good muscling overall
(and I know I'm missing A LOT!  She's a really nice doe though)

Cons:
-Hind legs a bit posty?
-Can't see brisket
-Chine a bit weak
-Could have a longer rump
-A bit cow hocked
-Toed out a bit in the back
(and I missed here too, I think )


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, so I'll give Tearza's Nubian girl, Sunna, a try!

Pros:
-Good brisket
-Long, feminine neck
-Long body
-Good, smooth topline for a Nubian
-Good depth
-Good width throughout body
-Looks to have good spring of ribs
-Nice incurve in her thigh
-Looks to have strong legs 
-Udder attachments in fore look ok, but could be smoother
-Slightly uphill
-Nicely placed teats
-Udder well attached at back
-Teats are a nice size
-Strong jaw
-Large ears 
-Big bodied girl

She looks to have some good genetics behind her!

Cons:
-Pasterns look a bit weak
-Shoulder/neck/brisket could all blend smoother
-Could be wider in the shoulders
-Ummm

I think her kids will have amazing udders and big, large capacity bodies. And they'll be really cute!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Someone do mine!!!!! :wallbang: :hammer: :crazy:


There, did ya


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Someone do mine!!!!! :wallbang: :hammer: :crazy:


Patience, patience. Someone will get around to it soon.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Lol, I did!


----------



## margaret

For Tearza's doe:
Pros:
~OK brisket
~Strong chine
~nice topline
~Good width to body
~good length to body
~Strong udder attachments
~Nice straight front legs from what I can see
~Nice angularity throughout
~nice sharp withers

Cons:
~steep rump
~Needs to be more uphill
~Needs to be more smoothly blended in shoulders, neck and withers

Can't see her pasterns


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aarriieella! You're behind  We're waitin' for ya


----------



## thegoatgirl

Oops....sorry, folks! I was competing all weekend, and just got back early this morning to a herd of panicked goats :lol:

CPK, doe #1:
Pros~
Smoothly blended from neck into withers
Good depth of jaw
Wide, flaring nostrils
Head looks to be set well on neck
Forehead is nice and level
Legs are straight behind the knee
Fair bone
Strong pasterns in the fore
Fair strength in the chine


Cons~
Very short bodied
Rump is extremely steep
Neck is short
Neck needs to be leaner
Brisket is very weak
Needs more spring of rib
Pretty much no body capacity
Prominent dorsal process
Very posty in the rear
Toes out
Is cow-hocky
Legs are placed to far forward
Elbows look to flare
Elbows may be loose
Poor dairy wedge
Is an over-all unbalanced animal (she may be in an awkward growing stage, the other pictures were different)
Slightly roached back


----------



## thegoatgirl

Also, CPK, I really don't know why you want flat bones. I'm pretty sure that it's a form of dairy character, but my guidebook doesn't really explain why.  Ask someone else :laugh:

Another critique comin' up in a moment!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Doe #2:

Pros~
Fair length of body
Nice and upstanding
Rump is fairly level, although her legs are to far back, and she looks like she's steep from hips to pins
Good brisket
Legs are straight behind the knee
Good bone
Legs are straight over-all
Strong pasterns in the rear
Strog pasterns in the fore
Heels are nice and deep
Fairly smoothly blended from neck into withers
Strong in the chine
Over-all good general appearance, IMO
Looks to have a deep jaw
Fair depth in the rear barrel
Nice short pasterns

Cons~
Neck needs to be longer
Needs to have more crest
Neck needs to be leaner
Needs more angulation
Toes out in the fore
Toes out in the rear
Is cow-hocky
Needs more body capacity
Loose elbows


Going to bed now, I'm completely worn out....maybe I'll do more tomorrow


----------



## Scottyhorse

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Ohhh, I see Sydney! Thanks
> 
> I think I got the general idea, Ariella  But why do you want flat bones? I think I get why you want the ribs far apart and angling toward the thighs.
> 
> Practicing on Ellie:
> Pros:
> -Deep in the heart girth and barrel
> -Love the meat on her hindquarters!
> -Rump is nice and fairly level for a Boer
> -Shoulder/neck blends very well
> -Neck is long and feminine (for a Boer)
> -Stocky, strong legs (You would usually refer to is as bone mass)
> -Big,well formed feet
> -Good pasterns
> -Rump is long
> -Good body length
> -Tight toes
> -Overall body is well blended
> -Very wide between hocks
> -I think how wide and meaty she is
> -Good pigment
> -Good breed character
> -Good muscling overall
> (and I know I'm missing A LOT!  She's a really nice doe though)
> Nice horn set
> Nice, high tail set
> Very level over the topline
> Deep twist
> 
> 
> Cons:
> -Hind legs a bit posty? (Remember for meat breeds, rear leg angulation is not super important. You do want a bit of angulation to hold up into old age. IMO, she is perfect)
> -Can't see brisket
> -Chine a bit weak (In Boer terms, she would 'break behind the shoulders'. This is her largest fault to me, though not a large one in the whole scheme of things.)
> -Could have a longer rump (That's correct, though rump length isn't quite as important in Boers as it is Dairy.)
> -A bit cow hocked (Not actually cow hocked)
> -Toed out a bit in the back (She doesn't toe out, she was just due for a hoof trim)
> (and I missed here too, I think )


In red


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks Ariella! 

And thanks for explaining all that Sydney  I'm sure learning a lot!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

...and by the way, how'd we do on Sunna, the Nubian doe?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> There, did ya


 Haha! thank you  
she needs 
a bit more strong (hence we are breeding her to a really strong buck) 
her udder has a shelf (for now, she'll grow out of it.)
She has really good spring of rib.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Tearza, what is an udder shelf?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

An udder "shelf" is when there is a small (and sometimes large) pocket between the barrel and the fore-udder, here is an example (thank goodness its not my goat!)
The second doe is worse then the first..
no offence to the breeders that own these girls!
Sunna's udder is NOT nearly as bad as these ones... her barrel will grow and she will fill it out. and it willbe fixed!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, I see that now! Thanks  


On a side note, I think this thread is lagging a bit... Can I put another goat up?


----------



## Scottyhorse

Sure.


----------



## margaret

Sure


----------



## COgoatLover25

Sure :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Alrighty, here's Penny, Isabelle's sister. They are so different!


----------



## margaret

Lindsey this one is for you to do.
[/ATTACH]


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Ok, I see that now! Thanks
> 
> On a side note, I think this thread is lagging a bit... Can I put another goat up?


Yep, anytime.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Just sayin'...that's a nice buck!


----------



## Scottyhorse

I can do both goats after a few people have done them


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'll do Penny in a bit, and Margaret's buck after Lindsay does him  K', Lindsay?


----------



## thegoatgirl

And I'll try to do Magaret's buck later today, after practice. 

*No promises....


----------



## margaret

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Just sayin'...that's a nice buck!


Thank you. I like him too


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Penny:

Pros:
-Nice width between hocks
-Straight back legs
-Nice rear leg muscling
-Good brisket
-Straight front legs
-I like the meat on her rump
-Shoulder is tight
-Wide forehead
-Wide horn base
-Strong jaw
-Ok length, but could be longer
-Ok depth in barrel
-Good width between front legs


Cons:
-I'd like a wider rump
-short neck
-Could use more depth in hear girth
-Weak chine
-Very unlevel topline
-Twist needs to be deeper
-Could use more length

That's all I got for now  Sydney?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

here is another. sorry I do not have better pics... I sold her a while back. she had an amazing udder on her too, these pics are of her FF (giving 1 1/2 gallons!)


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

PLEASE do not tell me how bad she is set p, my lil sis


----------



## COgoatLover25

Ok, sorry it took me so long 
This is all I got for now lol.

~For Margaret's Buck~

*PROS-*

Upstanding

Strong top line

Decent width between hocks

Blends pretty smoothly throughout

Nice length of body

Strong pasterns in rear

Nice length of rump

Rump is pretty level ( could be a bit more level but not bad )

Doesn't appear to toe out ( front and back ) from what I can see in pics

Decent amount of masculinity

Ok length of neck

*CONS-*

Needs more depth of rear barrel

Pasterns could be a bit more upstanding in front

Could have a better extension of brisket

Maybe a touch too much angularity in rear legs


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

For Margaret's Buck:

Pros:
-Uphill
-Good dairy character
-Good brisket
-Long bodied
-Long neck
-Rump is ok, but could be longer
-Strong, straight legs
-Good pasterns in rear
-Good pasterns in front
-Good depth in heart girth
-Long, level topline
-Nice in-curve to thigh
-Smooth, well blended overall
-Looks to have good spring of rib
-Good width between hocks
-Shoulders fairly tight, but could be better
-Long rump
-Strong jaw
-Wide forehead



Cons:
-A tad cow hocked
-Shoulder/neck could blend better
-Rump could be more level
-Could use more width overall
-Chest could be wider
-Could have better depth/width in back barrel

That's all I got for now.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

And Tearza's Oberhasli:

-Good spring of ribs
-Good body length
-Good body width
-Long feminine neck
-Strong legs
-Wide face
-Strong jaw
-Udder well attached at back
-Good width between front legs

Cons:
-Steep rump
-Could be better blended overall
-Teats too large
-Weak pasterns on fore legs


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Tearza's Nubian:

Pros:
-Good brisket
-Topline is good for a Nubian
-Good body length
-Fairly good neck length - could be better
-Feminine neck
-Good rump width
-Good width between hocks
-Teat placement looks good
-Good body depth - she doesn't look that old
-Strong back legs and pasterns
-Good breed expression
-Strong jaw
-Good width between front legs
-Refined, dairy build
-Well blended body



Cons:
-Extremely steep rump
-Short rump
-Posty hind legs
-Not uphill
-Front legs and pasterns look weak


She's got a cute face!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

There, I think that's all of 'em!


----------



## margaret

My boy's in an awkward growing stage right now so he's a bit steep. I think he'll level out as he gets older
This is his dam. She is a permanent champion and LAed with a EEEE 93.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Wow! She's nice


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Tearza's Nubian:
> 
> Pros:
> -Good brisket
> -Topline is good for a Nubian
> -Good body length
> -Fairly good neck length - could be better
> -Feminine neck
> -Good rump width
> -Good width between hocks
> -Teat placement looks good
> -Good body depth - she doesn't look that old
> -Strong back legs and pasterns
> -Good breed expression
> -Strong jaw
> -Good width between front legs
> -Refined, dairy build
> -Well blended body
> 
> Cons:
> -Extremely steep rump
> -Short rump
> -Posty hind legs
> -Not uphill
> -Front legs and pasterns look weak
> 
> She's got a cute face!


thas Lilly. she months old in the pictures. She is uphill & he rump is good the owner of Pruittville nubians really liked her. but the pics are all screwy so its hard to tell  she is pure Remuda lines too (she's linebred on copper hills breakaway sonset) I understand though! thaat would be what I would think off of THOSE pics!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Excited about her, then! Overall, it looks like she's got the makings of a really nice doe! ...I'm in love with that face, though


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ginger: 82.5% Boer Doe. 1.5 yrs old. Sire is a Reg. Boer buck.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm critiqued out for the day  So can someone else please do her?...and all the other does?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Anyone?  Sydney? Ariella?


----------



## Scottyhorse

I'll try and do one or two before we leave for the cabin today. Sorry I'm slacking, been busy with school :/


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Excited about her, then! Overall, it looks like she's got the makings of a really nice doe! ...I'm in love with that face, though


I'm assuming you are referring to me 
I sold her shortly after the pics were taken :mecry::sigh: 
our ***new*** neighbor (moved in 1 week before) called animal control on us. :veryangry:
so I was forced to sell all my beautiful herd of 25 registered Oberhasli & Nubians but 3 of my does. Duchess, Phoeben (Obers) & Sunna (Nubian) DARN!


----------



## LamanchaAcres

I have a doe for you guys whenever your ready 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Go ahead and post


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe
* she is milked out in this pic and its a bad angle but i figured you guys could critique most of her.









Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe
I'm going to be fast and just do basics!
Pros:
I'm going to try, let me know how I do 
level topline.
good rump angle (?)
sharp withers.
Very feminine/dairy
(my guess is she milks like a cow)
good spring of rib
Well-placed teats
good udder attachments (?) hard to see
Awesome barrel 
ears (or whats left of them :laugh



Cons 

Toes out
Brisket is "weak"

I have to go now :/


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner 
2 month oberhasli buckling


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

What about my does? :mecryGinger & Penny) Even if they're Boer crosses...


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> I'm assuming you are referring to me
> I sold her shortly after the pics were taken :mecry::sigh:
> our ***new*** neighbor (moved in 1 week before) called animal control on us. :veryangry:
> so I was forced to sell all my beautiful herd of 25 registered Oberhasli & Nubians but 3 of my does. Duchess, Phoeben (Obers) & Sunna (Nubian) DARN!


Yes, I was refering to you  Awww, that's horrible! I wish people wouldn't do that without a real, serious problem.


----------



## takethelead

Here's my sweet girl river. Give it a try. This picture was her as a ff. I need to get updated ones.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Yes, I was refering to you  Awww, that's horrible! I wish people wouldn't do that without a real, serious problem.


I agree! and half my herd was polled (hard work on my end, I bred them did not buy.)


----------



## COgoatLover25

Sorry to hear that Tearza


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

COgoatLover25 said:


> Sorry to hear that Tearza


Aww, its ok, at least I know how to get there, when we move I'll do it all over agian but without any gliches 
Alright, you guys are letting this thread die!! :lol: start critiquein'!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Alright, you guys are letting this thread die!! :lol: start critiquein'!


I agree! I'm on strike 'till someone else does a couple does!  :lol:


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

anyone??????


----------



## margaret

OK I will do the nigerian doe

Pros:
~Nice sharp withers
~Pretty good uphill stance
~ strong pasterns
~nice topline
~smoothly blended throughout
~pretty nice rump
~nice depth of barrel
~nice fore udder from what I can see
Cons:
~posty rear legs
~lacks brisket
~needs longer leaner neck
~needs more angularity and dairy character
~Lacks height in rear udder


----------



## takethelead

Thank you, she was milked out in that picture. I wish I had a picture if her udder full.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Since no one is volunteering to go...ahem, Sydney & Ariella! ...I'm going to give LamanchaAcres' Chloe a try:

Pros:
-Even from this angle, she looks to have a nice very level rump
-Ok topline
-Strong, straight legs
-Strong pasterns
-Long feminine neck
-Neck/shoulder well blended
-Good spring of barrel
-Good depth in mid barrel
-Teats looks to be a nice size
-Good brisket


Cons:
-Head could be more refined and feminine
-Maybe too straight in her back legs
-Not uphill
-Maybe a tad cow hocked
-Could have more depth in heart girth and back barrel


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Goats NOT critiqued by the pros, lol!  ( I'm trying to hint very loudly :wink: :lol: )


-Tearza's: Nubian Doe Sunna (page 75) Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly (page 78) & Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner (page 80)

-My Boer X does, Penny (page 77) & Ginger (page 79)

-Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe (page 80)

-takethelead's lill' girl, River (page 81)

-EDIT: Lindsay's Nubian buck


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Tearza's Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner:

Pros:
-Good brisket
-Very long dairy neck
-Uphill
-Fairly long bodied
-Good depth of body
-Straight strong legs
-Good width between hocks
-Nice incurve to the thigh
-Cute head!

Cons:
-Ewe necked
-Steep rump
-Even for a dairy buck, I think he should have a bit more meat on him
-Could be a tad longer
-Could be smoother blended overall


----------



## COgoatLover25

I'm not a pro but I haven't critiqued those either :lol: Guess I better get busy :lol:
Meanwhile, here's a reference pic of a 3 yr. old Nubian buck that used I to own. 
Critique away!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Takethelead's River:

Pros:
-Long
-Smooth
-Long neck
-Long bodied
-Very well blended
-Strong legs
-Good pasterns
-Uphill
-Rump is fairly level
-Teats are a nice size
-Neat coloring!

Cons: 
-Short rump
-Weak chine
-Could use more brisket
-Head could be smaller, more feminine


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Lindsay! I thought I was almost all caught up! Guess not just yet 

So for your Nubian buck:

Pros:
-Long bodied
-Long neck
-Good body depth
-Good brisket
-Tight shoulder
-Straight fore legs
-Smoothly blended overall


Cons:
-Very broken down in Chine
-Short rump
-Steep rump
-Weak fore pasterns
-Looks toed out in back
-Posty hind legs



Uhhh, I think I'm tired out now


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I give up on y'all...and I even went off strike!!!  


I'll give Ginger a go in a bit....


----------



## thegoatgirl

Sorry I disappeared! I have one for CPK to do, for some really fancy dairy practice... 
If ya don't, no problem! I know the feeling of "I can't focus...wait, did I say that buck is a doe?!"

Hull's HJE Breath of Fresh Air, two year old FF, three days fresh. Udder photo is a 12 hour fill.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aw, man, Ariella! I'll give her a try, though  Tell ya what, I'll do her if you do some of the others  k? (hehehe :shades


----------



## thegoatgirl

*Gives CPK a wary look* How many others?? LOL! :lol:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And when you get done, critique this 2yr FF for me


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> *Gives CPK a wary look* How many others?? LOL! :lol:


I've made a nice lill' list of the other goats!  Here ya go:  

-Tearza's: Nubian Doe Sunna (page 75) Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly (page 78) & Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner (page 80)

-My Boer X does, Penny (page 77) & Ginger (page 79)

-Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe (page 80)

-takethelead's lill' girl, River (page 81)

-EDIT: Lindsay's Nubian buck :grin: (page 82)

~Enjoy!~ 

....(notice my two are Boer X's  )


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, Ariella, I'm gonna try do Breath of Fresh Air:

Pros:
-Long, feminine neck
-Strong jaw
-Wide head
-Nostrils are wide, without being to open
-Nice ear placement
-Head is strong, but still feminine and not course
-Throat lack is not course 
-Head to neck blending is smooth 
-Good brisket
-Shoulder/neck is well blended
-Uphill
-Good depth in barrel -fore, middle and back
-Good width of body
-Good spring of ribs
-Level, long rump
-Wide rump
-Good body length
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Straight, strong legs
-Good pasterns
-Toes are tight in fore, can't really tell about hind
-Good length of cannon bone
-Flat boned
-Good dairy wedge
-Everything is well sprung, open and well blended
-Thurls look level
-Udder is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3
-Udder is high, but still has good capacity
-Blending from udder to stomach is fairly smooth
-Smooth and well attached at the back




Cons:
-Chest floor could be a bit lower
-Chine is weak
-Neck to top of shoulder could be better blended
-Looks to be a tad ewe necked (only a tad)
-Head maybe should be a little bit smaller
-Topline uneven
-Toed out a bit in the back?
-Slightly cow hocked 
-Teats are placed too far to the sides


How's that?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Lacie, is the first 2 pictures of the FF? And is she on the left in the third picture? And who's the fourth picture of?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Lacie, is the first 2 pictures of the FF? And is she on the left in the third picture? And who's the fourth picture of?


All are pictures of the same doe. For the best 3, yes she was on the very left. The last pic was her 2 months younger than the first pic. All were her FF pics.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, Lacie's FF:

Pros:
-Long
-Open
-Flat boned
-Head is refined, feminine and in proportion with her body
-Nice ear placement
-Strong jaw
-Strong, open muzzle and nostrils
-Neck is long, feminine and refined
-Neck to shoulder is smoothly blended
-Shoulder is tight and higher then hips
-Good brisket
-Good body length
-Good body capacity
-Good width of body
-Uphill
-Good dairy wedge
-Good depth throughout whole barrel
-Good spring of ribs
-Long, level rump
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Strong, straight legs
-Nice length of cannon bone in fore and back
-Fore pasterns look good
-Very smooth overall, open, and good dairy character
-Ribs are pointing toward the back
-Thurls are even
-Udder is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3
-Udder has good capacity 
-Udder is still held nice and high



Cons:
-Chine a tad weak (in first picture. In last picture, it's not)
-Small udder shelf
-Toes are a bit splayed in fore
-To me it looks like she is too far back on her hind heels, but her pasterns aren't weak...so?
-Toed out in back
-The line down the center of her udder (don't know what that's called) is not centered, and gives her udder a lopsided look


I missed a lot I think  Anyway, I really like her! Pretty girl


----------



## spidy1

Try this one...I just got her, she's about 14 weeks, precocious and shy, her chine dosn't dip normaly, she was croutching in the pics, I was lucky to get these pics without stressing her out, so not the best...her name is Feona


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Ok, Lacie's FF:
> 
> Pros:
> -Long
> -Open
> -Flat boned
> -Head is refined, feminine and in proportion with her body
> -Nice ear placement
> -Strong jaw
> -Strong, open muzzle and nostrils
> -Neck is long, feminine and refined
> -Neck to shoulder is smoothly blended
> -Shoulder is tight and higher then hips
> -Good brisket
> -Good body length
> -Good body capacity
> -Good width of body
> -Uphill
> -Good dairy wedge
> -Good depth throughout whole barrel
> -Good spring of ribs
> -Long, level rump
> -Nice incurve to thigh
> -Strong, straight legs
> -Nice length of cannon bone in fore and back
> -Fore pasterns look good
> -Very smooth overall, open, and good dairy character
> -Ribs are pointing toward the back
> -Thurls are even
> -Udder is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3
> -Udder has good capacity
> -Udder is still held nice and high
> 
> Cons:
> -Chine a tad weak (in first picture. In last picture, it's not)
> -Small udder shelf
> -Toes are a bit splayed in fore
> -To me it looks like she is too far back on her hind heels, but her pasterns aren't weak...so?
> -Toed out in back
> -The line down the center of her udder (don't know what that's called) is not centered, and gives her udder a lopsided look
> 
> I missed a lot I think  Anyway, I really like her! Pretty girl


I'm wondering what you mean by the udder is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3? Oh and yes, she didn't have the best hoof trim before the show. 
And I assume by udder shelf, you mean udder depth? How far out her udder is behind her? They aren't supposed to jut out 

And for the weak chines that are getting thrown all over the place, let me school ya'll :lol: 
Most people with meat goats think dairy goats are weak in the chine, however, I think the confusion is that dairy goats are bred to be high withered, and then the withers drop off to the chine and rest of the back, whereas meat goats are pretty flat on the topline. If the chine does not actually dip down, then go up to the rest of the spine, they're not weak in the chine.

Here is a weak chine, coupled with a roached back....


----------



## thegoatgirl

*Groan* Fine, fine.... :lol:

And you call that a LITTLE list?!

Okaaay.... for the Nubian doe 

Pros~
Good dairy character
Over-all good general appearance
Looks to be open throughout
I really appreciate the feet and legs on this doe!
Good bone
Does not toe out
Hard to see her pasterns, but they look good 
Has appropriate breed characteristics
Nose is nice and Roman!
Ears look to be nice and long, floppy, and seems to be controlled very little
Legs are nice and straight behind the knee
Over-all, very upright
Very smoothly blended
Fair angulation
Good brisket
Neck is long and lean
Fairly strong in the chine
Hard to see because of her ears (which is good), but seems to be cleanly cut at the throat latch
I really like the teat placement on this doe!
Good teat size
Nice teat shape; they could be slightly longer and more plumb
Good medial
Nice arch/width in the rear, could have a bit more, but overall nice!
Good height in her rear udder
Fair fore-udder attachment
Good rump width
Nice dairy wedge
Nice alert expression

Cons~
Needs stronger attachments in the rear
Slight pocket in her fore-udder
Back is roached slightly
Needs more body capacity, especially in the rear barrel
Needs to have a more level rump


*Not complete, yet..


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I'm wondering what you mean by the udder is 1/3, 1/3, 1/3? Oh and yes, she didn't have the best hoof trim before the show.
> And I assume by udder shelf, you mean udder depth? How far out her udder is behind her? They aren't supposed to jut out
> 
> And for the weak chines that are getting thrown all over the place, let me school ya'll :lol:
> Most people with meat goats think dairy goats are weak in the chine, however, I think the confusion is that dairy goats are bred to be high withered, and then the withers drop off to the chine and rest of the back, whereas meat goats are pretty flat on the topline. If the chine does not actually dip down, then go up to the rest of the spine, they're not weak in the chine.
> 
> Here is a weak chine, coupled with a roached back....(nasty!)
> View attachment 80322


I mean by the 1/3rds is that 1/3 is in front of the leg, 1/3 hidden, 1/3 is behind.

And by udder shelf I mean fore udder to stomach is not smooth, but is kinda square to the stomach, if that makes any sense 

Thanks for schoolin' us'all...I've never seen a back that bad!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

thegoatgirl said:


> *Groan* Fine, fine.... :lol:
> 
> And you call that a LITTLE list?!


Who's little list?  Mine? (I hope so, cause that means I DID GOOD! :leap::dance:)


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

thegoatgirl said:


> *Groan* Fine, fine.... :lol:
> 
> And you call that a LITTLE list?!
> 
> Okaaay.... for the Nubian doe
> 
> Pros~
> Good dairy character
> Over-all good general appearance
> Looks to be open throughout
> I really appreciate the feet and legs on this doe!
> Good bone
> Does not toe out
> Hard to see her pasterns, but they look good
> Has appropriate breed characteristics
> Nose is nice and Roman!
> Ears look to be nice and long, floppy, and seems to be controlled very little
> Legs are nice and straight behind the knee
> Over-all, very upright
> Very smoothly blended
> Fair angulation
> Good brisket
> Neck is long and lean
> Fairly strong in the chine
> Hard to see because of her ears (which is good), but seems to be cleanly cut at the throat latch
> I really like the teat placement on this doe!
> Good teat size
> Nice teat shape; they could be slightly longer and more plumb
> Good medial
> Nice arch/width in the rear, could have a bit more, but overall nice!
> Good height in her rear udder
> Fair fore-udder attachment
> Good rump width
> Nice dairy wedge
> Nice alert expression
> 
> Cons~
> Needs stronger attachments in the rear
> Slight pocket in her fore-udder
> Back is roached slightly
> Needs more body capacity, especially in the rear barrel
> Needs to have a more level rump
> 
> *Not complete, yet..


Thank You! she's a good girl. only 2 yrs old & She comes from lines that are slow to mature though (the reach their peak look at 4-5) so she should level out with her rump and her pocket will fill.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Sydney, could you pleeaase do Penny & Ginger?


----------



## margaret

Well I suppose I've been slacking on my own thread.
I'll post another goat.
This is my 4 year old Oreo. I posted a picture of her a while ago but I got a better one a few days ago. She was milked out in the picture since the only time I'm able to snag someone to take pictures is after milking. I'll try to get some better ones at the show next week.
And she's halfway clipped so she doesn't look too great.


----------



## margaret

Pros:
~Nice extension of brisket
~Good angulation and dairy character
~Good length of body
~nice slope of rump
~Long rump
~long lean neck
~Smoothly blended from neck into shoulders
~strong over the topline
~uphill

Cons
~ewe necked
~Pasterns need to be stronger
~toes out a bit in the back
~Front legs are a bit too far back
~needs to be set more squarely on rear legs.

Lacie could you do this one please?


----------



## margaret

Oh and here's an udder pic:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm on my phone right now, so I'll critique her when I get back on the computer, but she is like night and day with a clip! Much better looking!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

:GAAH: I had everything finished, was reviewing what I said, was almost ready to post, and the flipping computer shut off! :hair: So now I probably am missing some things, but you get the idea :lol:

*For Oreo:*

*Pros:*
Long lean neck
Neck blends nicely into the point of shoulder
Strong chine
Strong topline
Fairly uphill
Good length of the rump
Even rump width
Decent width of the hips
Nice width between the pins
Good thurls
Nice rear leg angulation
Straight, smooth forelegs
Strong front pasturns, good rear pasturns, they are just a little weak
Nice foot size for her bone size
Refined flat bone
Nice hight of the escutcheon
Good width between the hocks
Nice depth of heart girth
Girth blends nicely into the spring of rib and into the rear barrel
Good depth in the rear barrel
Good body capacity
I'll take a gamble and say she has a clean throat junction
Good dairy character
Good breed character
Decent femininity
Good dairy wedge

*Cons: *
Neck could blend better into the withers
Needs higher more prominent withers
Needs a bit more brisket
Neck could blend better into the brisket
Brisket could blend better into the chest floor
Needs more width in the chest floor
Lacks power in the front end assembly 
Needs a bit more refinement in the flank
Slight toe out in the rear
Could be a bit more level in the rump
Still a tad bit ewe necked
Could be a little wider in the escutcheon
Shoulders could be tighter, and smoother

*Udder pros:*
Strong medial, don't want it any more defined though, choose bucks carefully
Udder halves clearly defined
Overall good rear attachments
Good lateral attachments
Fore udder appears smooth
Teats are even size
Teats are plumb, and even length
Good texture
No lumps, no bumps
Even udder floor

*Udder cons:*
Teats could be more defined
Teats need a bit more centered placement
Needs a longer fore udder
Rear arch and escutcheon could be more rounded and wide, for a greater area of attachment
Medial is a little more to the left halve, making the right half appear more productive (does she milk a little more on the right?)


----------



## margaret

Thank You Lacie!
She usually milks out evenly, I haven't noticed her producing more on the right side.
I have another Alpine doe to post. This is my 7 year old, Poppy.
Please excuse the clip job, she's clipped evenly but I did her with a #10 blade and it takes a week or more for her to grow out to the length I want it, black does are hard to do.


----------



## margaret

^That doe is HARD to set up and take pictures of, she is a BRAT and she take pleasure in stepping on my bare feet:hair:


----------



## COgoatLover25

Maybe you should wear shoes when setting up goats :lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

Wooow, Poppy and Oreo look gorgeous!!  Great job!!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Syyydnnny! Where are you?  I've got 2 goaties waitin' for ya!  (Penny, page 77...and I did critique her  that is on page 78 , and Ginger, page 79, I haven't critiqued her as of yet  )


----------



## margaret

thegoatgirl said:


> Wooow, Poppy and Oreo look gorgeous!!  Great job!!


Thank you
I'm really pleased with how they turned out


----------



## margaret

COgoatLover25 said:


> Maybe you should wear shoes when setting up goats :lol:


I've thought about doing that. My feet are all bruised up:lol: the big does are HEAVY.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> ^That doe is HARD to set up and take pictures of, she is a BRAT and she take pleasure in stepping on my bare feet:hair:


haha! too funny! I never wear shoes either  (my mom HATES that!)


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ginger:

Pros:
-Long bodied
-Fairly long neck
-Strong jaw
-Wide horn base
-Wide forehead
-Neck to shoulder blends nicely
-Ok brisket but could be better
-Strong legs
-Big boned legs
-Big feet
-Fairly good spring of ribs
-Nice length of chine
-Good depth in rear barrel
-Smoothly blended body
-Fairly good width between hocks
-Nice muscling on thigh
-Nice muscling on rump as a whole


Cons:
-Narrow chest
-Poor depth in heart girth
-Steep rump
-Toed out in back
-Weak pasterns in fore - I actually like this angle of pasterns
-Weak right behind the shoulders


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, Sydney! I'm done  and ready & waitin'


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> haha! too funny! I never wear shoes either  (my mom HATES that!)


Mine too


----------



## margaret

My parents got so annoyed with me stepping on pitchforks and rusty nails all the time then walking in crap and having my wounds get infected that they said I have to wear shoes when milking or cleaning out pens.


----------



## margaret

margaret said:


> My parents got so annoyed with me stepping on pitchforks and rusty nails all the time then walking in crap and having my wounds get infected that they said I have to wear shoes when milking or cleaning out pens.


Or when showing.
I once went into the ring barefoot. That was a mistake I took off my boots since i was really hot and then somebody needed me to show for them and I didn't have time to put my boots on before I showed:greengrin:


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> My parents got so annoyed with me stepping on pitchforks and rusty nails all the time then walking in crap and having my wounds get infected that they said I have to wear shoes when milking or cleaning out pens.


Hmm, sounds familier.... can't be me & my parents........ :ROFL: I think we are a lil' bit alike!


----------



## margaret

:ROFL:
Good to know I'm not the only one:lol:


----------



## margaret

margaret said:


> My parents got so annoyed with me stepping on pitchforks and rusty nails all the time then walking in crap and having my wounds get infected that they said I have to wear shoes when milking or cleaning out pens.


And since my parents would never take me to a doctor or give me antibiotics or anything like that unless it was something REALLY serious, when I step on sharp objects covered in crap then 'forget' to wear shoes I just have to lay around and soak my wounds in epsom salt water until I can walk again.


----------



## Emzi00

Here kiddos, 6 months old ish.


----------



## margaret

I won't do her until you do my black doe


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

... Emma, your picture was tiny...


----------



## Emzi00

I don't like her feet and she needs more depth.


----------



## Emzi00

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> ... Emma, your picture was tiny...


Lacie to the rescue. :lol: Thanks.


----------



## margaret

I won't do that ugly kid until I get an in depth critique on my doe, either from you or Lacie


----------



## Emzi00

Ma, this kid is picking on me again calling my doe ugly. :blue: Lacie will you judge her doe and be brutal about it?


----------



## margaret

I don't like chamoisee!


----------



## COgoatLover25

I like chamoisee color


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

*gasp* You mean critique her as if I was looking to make a purchase?  :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> *gasp* You mean critique her as if I was looking to make a purchase?  :lol:


Yes!! Exactly so! :lol:


----------



## ThreeHavens

Nice doe! I'd say a bit more length and stronger chine.


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> And since my parents would never take me to a doctor or give me antibiotics or anything like that unless it was something REALLY serious, when I step on sharp objects covered in crap then 'forget' to wear shoes I just have to lay around and soak my wounds in epsom salt water until I can walk again.


yep..... except garlic instead of epsom salt. I don't get shots/antibiotics & I have never been to the doctor in my life (I was not even born in a hospital) (oh, are you homeschooled? I kow I'm being nosy and all but I'd like to know!)


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> I don't like chamoisee!


You WHAT?!?!?! :shock: 
hey have some feeling, Oberhasli breeder over here! :mecry:


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> You WHAT?!?!?! :shock:
> hey have some feeling, Oberhasli breeder over here! :mecry:


I like Oberhasli colors but I'm pretty dang tired of this color


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> yep..... except garlic instead of epsom salt. I don't get shots/antibiotics & I have never been to the doctor in my life (I was not even born in a hospital) (oh, are you homeschooled? I kow I'm being nosy and all but I'd like to know!)


Yes, somehow my mom manages to homeschool all 7 of us. When we're being lazy she threatens to send us all to public school::


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> Yes, somehow my mom manages to homeschool all 7 of us. When we're being lazy she threatens to send us all to public school::


Ah! you've been beat! my mom homeschools all 8 of us :wahoo:


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> I like Oberhasli colors but I'm pretty dang tired of this color


I'm not super fond of THAT color either, but I would not consider that chamoisee


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> Yes, somehow my mom manages to homeschool all 7 of us. When we're being lazy she threatens to send us all to public school::


my mom does the same thing! She'll say, that fine I can just send you all to public school, or you can to your school work.


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Ah! you've been beat! my mom homeschools all 8 of us :wahoo:


Are you the oldest in your family?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

nope, second oldest (I'm 13, my older bro is 17)


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> my mom does the same thing! She'll say, that fine I can just send you all to public school, or you can to your school work.


Yep, sounds familiar:lol: That usually straightens us up


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> nope, second oldest (I'm 13, my older bro is 17)


I'm 13 too,I'm also the second oldest, my brother is a minute older than me


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Nope, I'm second oldest (I'm 13 my older Bro is 17)


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

oops, what happend! my post was just copied! I private messaged you we are taking over the thread!


----------



## mistydaiz

I normally don't do critiques, but I thought Lacey's beautiful FF Alpine doe deserved a few more compliments. 


Everything about her is stunning. I wouldnt change anything, except a few minor details, but depending on who you ask, it is just opinion.
She looks like she may toe out a tad in the rear legs, she may have slightly weak pasterns, and she may be a tad coarse and not that very dairy in the neck and body, but that is just nitpicking, and to be expected in 2 year old FFs.
Her udder is gorgeous and very capacious for a FF.
Very high, and should widen in future freshenings. Her medial is good for a FF, should deepen in the future.
Maybe her teats will position more correctly in the future also, but teats are just 4 or 5 points on the scorecard.
Her foreudder can be smoother and longer, but the shelving is most likely from a great milk production. Just producing more milk than the FF udder can hold.
As her body deepens with maturity, her foreudder should smooth out.

This is a really nice doe, and you can see the quality in her genetics and what type of Alpine she is.
BTW, this look is one my favorite types of Alpines.
She is very nice looking overall, and should easily earn some Es and score in the 90s in Linear Appraisal, when she is older.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Has anyone seen Sydney lately? She's gone missing  and I want her to do my 2 Boer does!:mecry:

~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway here's a couple things on Spidy1's cute lill' Lamancha doeling:
Pros:
-Good width
-Looks to have nice length
-Strong legs and pasterns
-Long neck
-Wide horn base
-Wide head
-Strong jaw
-Good brisket
-Wide rump
-Fairly good depth and body capacity

Cons:
-Her whole topline is messed up so I can't say anything truthful about her neck attachment/chine/topline/rump
-Her hips are narrower then her pin bones

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And Emma's Alpine:

Pros:
-Strong jaw
-Nice ear set
-Long, feminine neck
-Good brisket
-Shoulder is tight
-Strong stocky legs
-Strong pasterns
-Good depth in rear barrel
-Level, long rump
-Nice incurve to thigh

Cons:
-Weak chine (right, Lacie?  )
-I don't like her back legs
-Looks a bit short
-Her body is not in proportion with itself

She's not my favorite doeling.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Margaret's doe, Poppy:

Pros:
-Seriously???!!! _7yrs old!?!_ She's lookin' good 

-Long feminine neck
-Strong jaw
Very smooth, long, level topline
-Long, level rump
-Good brisket
-Tight shoulder
-Good depth in barrel
-Good spring of ribs
-Ribs appear to point backwards
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Smoothly blended throughout body
-Everything is still tight and not stretched
-Udder is still well attached
-Flat boned
-Legs are straight and not weakening
-Fore pasterns are still good

Cons:
-Weak rear legs
-Weak rear pasterns
-Teats are too large (lol, but not at her age  )

~~And I don't feel like doing Oreo  Even though she's a nice girl...'sides, Lacie did her


----------



## mistydaiz

Actually, Cedar Point Kikos, Emma's doeling is really nice but very immature in this photo. 
Her back legs have good angulation, she does not have a weak chine, and she is not too short for her age.
She just needs time to grow into her legs and she will be more upstanding ,showing off her strong withers and topline.
She is just at an age, in that photo, where her legs are growing at a different rate than her body. It will all catch up and she will mature nicely in a couple years or three.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, I thought she looked very young! Hopefully we'll get a picture of her when she matures...I can get a better sense of her then


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

mistydaiz said:


> I normally don't do critiques, but I thought Lacey's beautiful FF Alpine doe deserved a few more compliments.
> 
> Everything about her is stunning. I wouldnt change anything, except a few minor details, but depending on who you ask, it is just opinion.
> She looks like she may toe out a tad in the rear legs, she may have slightly weak pasterns, and she may be a tad coarse and not that very dairy in the neck and body, but that is just nitpicking, and to be expected in 2 year old FFs.
> Her udder is gorgeous and very capacious for a FF.
> Very high, and should widen in future freshenings. Her medial is good for a FF, should deepen in the future.
> Maybe her teats will position more correctly in the future also, but teats are just 4 or 5 points on the scorecard.
> Her foreudder can be smoother and longer, but the shelving is most likely from a great milk production. Just producing more milk than the FF udder can hold.
> As her body deepens with maturity, her foreudder should smooth out.
> 
> This is a really nice doe, and you can see the quality in her genetics and what type of Alpine she is.
> BTW, this look is one my favorite types of Alpines.
> She is very nice looking overall, and should easily earn some Es and score in the 90s in Linear Appraisal, when she is older.


Thank you!  She had quads as a 3yr old this year, and got pregnancy stress, and it ruined the right side of her udder this year, so unfortunately her showing days are over, unless her udder miraculously fixes itself before she kids again, being dried off now. But she's just shy of being a 3 gallon a day milker


----------



## mistydaiz

I guess you will just have to retain a doeling from her. 
Too bad you live too far from me. 
I can't afford to have kids shipped to me right now.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

SYDNEY!!!!! I'm running out of patience


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Sydney's ignoring me! :tears::mecry:I'm so sad :tears: I'm gonna cry :mecry:

this may be remedied if Sydney critiqued Penny & Ginger   then I wouldn't cry  Purty pleeeaasse, Sydney?:wave:

http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Ok here's Temperance. Best set up I can get (she is mostly dry right now)








Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Pros:
-Long body!
-Strong jaw
-Wide head
-Clean throat latch
-Fairly long, feminine neck
-Very smoothly blended from neck to shoulder and brisket
-Good brisket
-Nice chest floor, could be a tad lower ?
-Shoulder is tight
-Fairly good topline
-Good spring of ribs
-Ribs flat and pointing back
-Ok dairy wedge
-Flat boned and open
-Long chine
-Long rump
-Level rump
-Udder is fairly well attached in fore
-Nice teat size
-Straight, strong legs fore and back
-Good strong pasterns in fore - can't really tell in back
-Fairly good body capacity
-Fairly uphill

Cons:
-Poor depth in heart girth
-Poor depth overall
-Toes splay a bit in back ?
-Weak behind shoulders
-Neck could be longer
-Overall I'd give her more depth in entire body and a longer jawline 


Nice girl!


----------



## LibertyHomesteadFarm

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> You WHAT?!?!?! :shock:
> hey have some feeling, Oberhasli breeder over here! :mecry:





GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Ah! you've been beat! my mom homeschools all 8 of us :wahoo:


I have nigerians and Oberhaslis (I'm homeschooled too!  )


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

LibertyHomesteadFarm said:


> I have nigerians and Oberhaslis (I'm homeschooled too!  )


 Cool! I'm in heaven! (do you hve any idea how hard it is to find anyone near your age who likes goats/horses/animals & is Homechooled?!?!)

Ok everybody get to work! I know it's beeding season and all hlala::lovey: and we are all busy but we can't let the thread die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dazed:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Thanx for doing temperance! Anyone want to do my buck?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

Let me do Temper first, then you can post him. I think more than 1 beginner should get a try lol. I'll BR back on in about an hour or so


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Lol hurry Lindsey, I'm ancy! I don't think my buck has ever been critiqued, I'd love to hear his pros and cons!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Yah, hurry up Lindsay! I've been doing waaay too much beginner critiquing here! Time you and Margaret pull up your socks and get going! :ROFL: just kidding 

but still....hurry up!

I think the teachers ...AKA The Pros, AKA Ariella, Sydney, Lacie, Emma... are behind too :shades:  

http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Ok everybody get to work! I know it's beeding season and all hlala::lovey: and we are all busy but we can't let the thread die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dazed:


So true! Come on folks! 
http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, which ones have not been critiqued yet? I'll catch those up, then nobody post another until the last one is done at least once! :lol:


----------



## mistydaiz

Ummm, Cedar Point Kikos. You forgot to include me on that little teacher list 
I kinda taught Ariella *most/some* of what she knows, in RL. 
Ariella, tell em


----------



## Emzi00

I'm a teacher? :slapfloor: Right, I learned from Lacie. She's _the_ teacher.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Yup, definitely include mistydaiz! She's an excellent critique-er :wink: And she did teach me a lot! 

I'm running on borrowed time, folks, so I won't have time to do any goats anytime soon....


----------



## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Cool! I'm in heaven! (do you hve any idea how hard it is to find anyone near your age who likes goats/horses/animals & is Homechooled?!?!)


It is hard, isn't it?


----------



## margaret

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Ok, which ones have not been critiqued yet? I'll catch those up, then nobody post another until the last one is done at least once! :lol:


Poppy hasn't been done.


----------



## mistydaiz

Poppy:
Pros: 
Nice and long. Okay general appearance. Long, lean neck.
Okay withers. Good angulation in legs.
Good dairy character.
Foreudder is good, could be longer. Teat placement is okay.

Cons:
She could have more depth in barrel, which should come with maturity.
Weak pasterns, toes out in front. Chest could be deeper.
Head is roman nosed. Out at elbow.
Udder needs to be higher and wider at attachments. Medial a tad deep.
Teats are either blown or genetic, they are too wide at base.


----------



## margaret

I forgot to add, she's 7 years old


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

*"""I'm a teacher? :slapfloor: Right, I learned from Lacie. She's *the* teacher."""*
:wink:Well, I _thought_ you were, Emma! :ROFL: But O.K, Lacie is really good 

*"""Ummm, Cedar Point Kikos. You forgot to include me on that little teacher list :grin:
I kinda taught Ariella *most/some* of what she knows, in RL. :wink:
Ariella, tell em :wink:"""*
Sorry Mistydaiz! Didn't know you were  I'll make a new teachers list  O.K? And you'll be on that one 
_*
"""Ok, which ones have not been critiqued yet? I'll catch those up, then nobody post another until the last one is done at least once! :lol: """*_

Here's a lovely list for ya'all, Lacie!

-Poppy (page 91 & 84)
-Temperance (page 89)
-Emma's 6 month old Alpine Doeling (page 86)
-Oreo (page 84) Lacie & Margaret did her 
-Spidy1's Lamancha doeling (page 83)
Tearza's: Nubian Doe Sunna (page 75) Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly (page 78) & Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner (page 80)
-My Boer X does, Penny (page 77) & Ginger (page 79) *Right, Sydney?! I'm waitin' *
-Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe (page 80)
-takethelead's lill' girl, River (page 81)
-Lindsay's Nubian buck :grin: (page 82)

I think that's all! Some of them have been done by one or two people, but on average, they haven't really been done 

O.K, teachers list (cause I said I'd make a new list )

-Mistydaiz
-Emma
-Lacie
-Ariella
-Sydney

Alrighty, there ya'all go http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## COgoatLover25

*~Apache (My Nubian buck pg. 82)~*

*PROS-*

>Long bodied
>Good depth of heart girth
>Decent depth of rear barrel
>Good brisket
>Sharp withers
>Long (and fairly lean) neck
>Upstanding
>Nice Roman nose
>Good definition in the flank
>Masculine
>Blends fairly smoothly throughout

*Cons-*

>Weak front pasterns
>Rear pasterns could be a bit more upright
>Posty rear legs
>Short rump
>Rump could be more level
>Ears need to be longer with less control
>Toes out slightly in rear
>Poor topline overall

That's it...:lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Lindsey I'm actually kinda really proud of you. :lol: Good job.


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emzi00 said:


> Lindsey I'm actually kinda really proud of you. :lol: Good job.


Yay! :stars:


----------



## Emzi00

Okay now do another one.


----------



## margaret

Emzi00 said:


> Okay now do another one.


Why don't you do one?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> It is hard, isn't it?


Yea


----------



## margaret

But you found me
We have a LOT in common


----------



## COgoatLover25

You guys should just PM :lol:


----------



## margaret

We do:lol:


----------



## margaret

Anybody wanna do my doe?


----------



## COgoatLover25

*~Takethelead's Nigerian Dwarf doe, River pg. 81~*

*PROS-*

>Nice length of body
>Good depth of rear barrel
>Decent depth of heart girth
>Fairly upstanding
>Sharp withers
>Fairly long, lean neck
>Blends pretty smoothly throughout
>Strong pasterns
>Fair topline 
>Good body capacity

*CONS-*

>Fore-udder could blend more smoothly
>Needs more angularity in rear legs
>Rump could be more level
>Short rump
>Poor brisket
>Needs more definition in the flank
>Needs more dairy character 
>Toes out in rear
>Ewe-necked?


----------



## Scottyhorse

Someone pick 4 goats for me to do, and their pages. I've been really busy guys, sorry. I'll start with 4 and then I'll go from there


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Scottyhorse said:


> Someone pick 4 goats for me to do, and their pages. I've been really busy guys, sorry. I'll start with 4 and then I'll go from there


Temperance pg 89 

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## margaret

Clematis pg 92 and Poppy pg 91.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Scottyhorse said:


> Someone pick 4 goats for me to do, and their pages. I've been really busy guys, sorry. I'll start with 4 and then I'll go from there


I'm a little late, I see...but pleeaase do Ginger page 79 and Penny page 77!

Please 
http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> But you found me
> We have a LOT in common


Actualy, I'm not sure who found who! Yes we do  My PM messeges are showing up all weird so you are going to have to E-mail me!


----------



## margaret

Did you get the last one I sent?


----------



## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> Did you get the last one I sent?


Nope, like I said, this site is some times weird on my computer so you have to E-mail me


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Margaret's Doe, Oreo. Page 84.

Pros:
-Good topline
-Uphill
-Strong jaw
-Wide head
-Deep jaw
-Long, refined neck
-Good brisket
-Nice tight shoulder
-Good fore legs
-Ok fore pasterns
-Good spring of ribs
-Good depth in whole barrel
-Good body capacity
-Good body length
-Open
-Flat Boned
-Good dairy wedge 
-Long rump
-Flat rump
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Good rear legs
-Good rear pasterns
-Good width
-Udder has lots of capacity
-Nice width between teats
-Teats are a nice size to milk
-Udder is nice and high



Cons:
-Ewe neck
-Shoulder to neck could blend better
-Fore legs could be straighter
-She could be smoother
-Rump could be wider
-Teats are a little too far out to the sides

Ok, now to read Lacie's post!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Brother, Lacie does a GOOD job!!!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

:laugh: I've been doing it for quite some time. 

Gonna run outside real quick to check on one of my does, then I'll do some critiques.


----------



## margaret

Yay Lacie!
Can you do Clematis PLEASE?
Or Poppy?
I got a new picture of her.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm putting Penny & Ginger on again!

Penny:






















Ginger:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Lol, Lacie! 

Please, Sydney, pretty please, can you do Penny and Ginger?


----------



## margaret

I need some practice. I'll do Oreo in a minute.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Took a lot longer than I expected, but I'm back. I'll do the ones asked of on this page and see if I have the time to catch up the others tonight.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

*For Clematis*

*Cons:*
Elbow could be tighter
Needs better blending of the neck into the brisket
Chest floor could blend better into the heart girth
Would like to see a cleaner throat to jaw junction
Fore legs look like they could be a bit smoother
Would like a bit more depth in the rear barrel
Toes look like they toe out ever so slightly
Would like to see a longer, leaner neck
Rear legs, even though really squatted down, I think they are a tad too angled otherwise
Rear pasturns aren't bad, they just seem a bit low

Might be the angle of the picture, but she seems a bit unbalanced, like her front end is very powerful, and her rear end is too small for her body. I would like to see a picture of her from a more full side view, and less squatted down to accurately display her rear leg angulation, and overall self.*

*Pros*
Good upstanding stature
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Decent prominent-ness to the withers
Strong in the chine
Strong topline
Thurls look good
Looks to have a good spring of rib
Seemingly very open
Good brisket extension
Fair body length
Good capacity
Long bone pattern
Nice depth of girth
Long rump
Good levelness to the rump
Really smooth in general appearance
Nice power in the front end
Good front pasturns
Good feet
Nice refined flank 
Good size bone, while staying dairy
Good amount of femininity
Nice dairy character

Ok, I'm gonna stop this one here, I just feel like it would be better to have a more accurate picture.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

*For Poppy*

*Cons:*
Would like a more feminine head
Needs a more uphill stature, her hips are very close to being higher than the withers
Steep rump
Shallow depth of body
Would like to see more body capacity (for the depth of body and capacity I really like to see a lot more by this age)
Needs more brisket
Neck could blend into the brisket just a bit more
Thurls a bit too high
Little loose in the elbow
Would like to see a deeper girth
Point of shoulder is a bit prominent
Would like to see higher withers
Narrow in the chest floor
Lacks power in the front end assembly
Would like to see a larger, more open spring of rib
Weak rear pasturns
Some toe out in the front and rear

*Pros:*
Nice long, lean neck
Neck blends well into the withers
Fair body length
Strong front pasturns
Strong chine
Overall strong topline
Straight fore legs
Chest floor blends well into the girth
Good blending into the barrel
Good feet
Fair dairy character
Decent width between the pins
Decent width of the escutcheon, but could be wider
Good rear leg angulation 
Good rump length
Pretty smoother overall
Good femininity, just needs more in her face
Would like to see a more breed characterized head, little too strong for me, would prefer a more dished appearance
Long bone pattern 
Other than the sharp point of shoulder, they seem nice and tight
Nice refined flank

*Udder Pros*
Fair rear attachment, could be a bit tighter
Good medial
Teat placement isn't bad
Teats are close to the same side
Teats are plumb, and fairly defined from the udder
Lateral attachments are good
Decent fore attachment
Texture looks good 
Udder halves seem pretty even
No lumps or bumps

*Udder Cons*
Needs a longer fore udder
Could have a more capacious udder
Would like to see a wider, more rounded arch
Needs more udder depth

Would like to see a further away rear picture, so I could see her hip width etc, and a front pic would be good too.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And Emma dearest, since nobody did Ellie for you.... :shades: :lol:

*Ellie*

*Pros*
Sharp, very prominent withers (Like Moonie :lol
Strong chine
Strong topline
Getting an uphill stature
Long, lean neck
Neck blends nicely into the withers
Neck blends nicely into the brisket
Fair amount of brisket, could use more
Brisket blends nicely into the chest floor
Chest floor blends well into the girth
Good blending into the ribs and barrel
Nice straight for legs
Good rear leg angulation
Long rump
Good feet
Strong pasturns
Nice shoulders
Nice depth of girth
Good body capacity
Good depth into the rear barrel
Long rump
Good thurls
Good femininity
Nice dish to her face
Strong but dairy appearance

*Cons*
Long rear pasturns
Looks a touch loose in the elbow, might be the color right there that's throwing me off
Little steep rump
Would like a more refined flank
Under-jaw is a little fat 
Picture was taken mid swallow, you can see it on her neck :lol:
Would like a cleaner throat/jaw junction
She is a little short bodied
And she does lack the long bone pattern as of now

And your camera person also failed and front and rear pics  Does nobody realise a rear picture can make another 8-10 things that can go on the list, depending on the pics?! :GAAH:


----------



## margaret

Thank you Lacie
That wasn't a very good picture Clematis, sorry. 
Also, I know lots of people say this about their goats, but Poppy looks so much better in person. She's actually really level across the topline and rump. She was misbehaving for the picture and kind of hunching up but when I see her in person, even not set up she look SOOO much better.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I can see that, I was using both pictures for reference, since in the last one, her rump looks short, her legs look posty, and a couple other things, and the older picture shows a longer rump, and good angle to the legs. So you can see, one picture can make them look worse, while others make them look better. So it's best to take, oh, 56,000 pictures and filter through to find the best, most accurate one :ROFL:


----------



## margaret

:lol:
My girls are brats, so it's hard to get good pictures
I have one that REFUSES to set up. EVERY time i move her legs she moves them back, cranes her neck back to look at me tosses her head and hunches up:lol:
But the weird thing is, when I get in the ring she stops!
I let my 7 year old sister show her and she was good as gold:ROFL:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

For fun, you guys can critique these 2 Purebred Alpine Does. These are 2 of the goats I started with, and they were the stubbornest, most ornery creatures out there! Not to mention nasty  They are, I like, the black & white one is 5-6 yrs old (adelwiess) and the mother of the tan/white one (snowdrop) with is 3-4 yrs old.

The last picture is of April. Her dam is the black & white and her sire is a son of the tan/white.


----------



## Emzi00

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> And Emma dearest, since nobody did Ellie for you.... :shades: :lol:


Thank you Mommy. :greengrin:  Considering that most of your problems could be fixed with a better picture and her being clipped, I'm happy. 

And my mom was sick, hence the lack of more pictures. I had to bring the goat up to the front of the house to get one because she didn't want to be outside. :lol:


----------



## margaret

Funny how you have two moms......


----------



## COgoatLover25

Emma's special :lol:


----------



## margaret

Nope,not really.........


----------



## Emzi00

margaret said:


> Funny how you have two moms......


I have my real mother, and then Lacie who is like my mom but better. :lol:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

So are y'all gonna do my buck yet?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Where's your buck? Which page? And I'll give him a try


----------



## margaret

I'm posting an easy one for myself.


----------



## margaret

Pros:
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Good uphill stance
~Lean and angular through out
~Fair body capacity
~Strong, short rear pasterns
~Straight front legs, doesn't toe out
~Smooth blending through out
~Sharp withers

Cons:
~rump is a tad bit steep
~Needs a longer body
~Needs more brisket

Can someone else do Spruce so I can see how I did and what I missed?


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Where's your buck? Which page? And I'll give him a try











Here he is!

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

HappyCaliGoats said:


> View attachment 81750
> 
> 
> Here he is!
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> ~Dee
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Can't wait till Lacie does him and Temper!


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Lacie is ignoring my goats... She doesn't like their ears :lol:


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## COgoatLover25

There's just a lot of goats that were posted ahead of yours, I'm sure she will get to them soon


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Dee's Nubian Buck:

Pros:
-Strong jaw
-Deep jaw
-Long ears
-Head has good Breed expression
-Strong muzzle
-Clean throat latch
-Defined, muscular neck 
-High, well defined withers
-Tight clean shoulders
-I think his neck is a decent length, but it's hard to tell, as he has high withers and that small ring of black on his neck is very deceiving! 
-Nice height 
-Neck and top of withers blends really nicely
-Neck to shoulder blade blends very well
-Neck to brisket is nicely blended
-Withers to chine blends very well
-Clean sharp withers
-Topline is level 
-Topline is very strong, especially for a Nubian!
-Long chine
-Good spring of ribs
-Good depth in mid and rear barrel
-Lion, hips and rump are smooth and well blended
-Hips are smooth
-Rump is long
-Rump is very level for a Nubian....rumps like that can be hard to find!
-Nice length from hips to pins
-Good body length
-Open
-Flat boned
-Uphill
-Good dairy character, but still masculine
-Strong, straight legs, fore and rear
-Good pasterns, fore and rear
-I like the hoof size on fore legs
-Clean, sharp legs

Cons:
-Neck seems a little short, but he has high withers and a wide shoulder to neck blending, so really hard to tell 
-Lacks brisket
-Lacks depth in chest floor
-Could use more depth in heart girth
-Lacks power in the hind end assembly, I think
-Cannon bone is a little short on fore legs
-Back hooves are a little small
-Needs more length in the body

Nice buck and really cool coloring!

Now, what did I miss, teachers? http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

margaret said:


> Can someone else do Spruce so I can see how I did and what I missed?


I'll try 

Pros:
-Long jaw
-Strong jaw
-Wide head
-Clean throat latch
-Long feminine neck
-High, sharp withers
-Tight, flat shoulder blade
-Good chest floor
-Good cannon bone length
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in rear and middle barrel
-Good spring of ribs
-Long chine
-Open
-Flat boned
-Uphill
-Good dairy character
-Long rump
-Fairly level rump
-Strong back legs
-Strong rear pasterns
-Good body length
-Good length from hips to pins
-Her tail is sooo funny!

Cons:
-Weak-ish front legs
-Weak fore pasterns
-Poor topline
-Shoulder blade to neck isn't well blended
-Ewe neck
-Lacks brisket
-Breaks down a bit behind withers
-Head is maybe a little to large for body size


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I was feeling judgy today 

...and like giving Dee's Nubian buck as good as a critique as I could do


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Oh, and Margaret and Lindsey! I challenge each of you to do either Adelwiess or Snowdrop, the Alpine Does I posted


----------



## COgoatLover25

I guess I better get busy :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

:laugh: Not allowed! Recesses are not part of this class  :lol:


----------



## margaret

OK,Yes ma'am!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Folks seem to be taking a break from this thread again....onder:


----------



## margaret

We're just lazy:lol:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> I was feeling judgy today
> 
> ...and like giving Dee's Nubian buck as good as a critique as I could do


Haha! Thanx! That was a long list of pros! But I think his rump is short? You said long?

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

margaret said:


> We're just lazy:lol:


I found THAT out a loooonng time ago! :ROFL:
http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

HappyCaliGoats said:


> Haha! Thanx! That was a long list of pros! But I think his rump is short? You said long?
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> ~Dee
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


If his rump is from the hand to his tail, it's a nice length. If his rump begins after your hand it's short.

It's all so smooth looking there, it's hard to tell 
http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> If his rump is from the hand to his tail, it's a nice length. If his rump begins after your hand it's short.
> 
> It's all so smooth looking there, it's hard to tell
> http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


Yes, his rump starts rig in between my index and middle finger tips. I always thought it was short :shrug: but it is really hard to judge him since he's spotted and I'm wearing black pants... :lol: I didn't think that through

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Mmmm, it's maybe a bit short then, but not bad


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okey doke, I have some spare time.  Someone load me up with two or three goats that I haven't done, now! :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

HappyCaliGoats's Nubian buck: Page 95. ('Cause I did him  )

And my 2 Alpine does, Adelwiess & Snowdrop: page 94.

 please


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

And April  page 94 as well


----------



## thegoatgirl

OK, here goes.  I'm gonna do the two Alpine does for you, CPK :wink:

*First doe:
*
Pros~
I love the over-all correctness of her general appearance!
Good Alpine head
Fair depth of jaw
Nice straight face with no bumps or dips
Wide, flaring nostrils
Fair rump levelness
Good rump length
Good dairy wedge
Good incurve to the thigh
Fair feet and legs
Good bone
Fair brisket
Strong pasterns (I think)
Does not toe out
Legs are nice and straight
No bulbous knees
Legs do not dip behind the knees
Fair depth in the rear barrel
Nice neck length
Neck looks to blend smoothly into withers
Fair length

Cons~
Could be more up-hill
Could be sharper and cleaner throughout
Neck could be leaner, and slightly longer
Possibly small in stature...? Hard to tell.
Loose elbows
Slight roaching of the back, but it may be the picture
Ears could be higher set

*Second doe:*

Pros~
Good body capacity
Nice depth in the rear barrel
Looks to have a good Alpine type head
Excellent width throughout her head
Good depth of jaw
Wide, flaring nostrils
Good length
Nice rump
Rump is level
Rump appears to be fairly long
Good dairy wedge
Good incurve to the thigh
Nice and sharp
Ribs are angled towards the thighs
Fair elbow tightness
Fairly upstanding
Good strength in the chine
Neck has fair length
Fair bone
Nice feet and legs, I can't tell 'cause of the grass...

Cons~
Neck needs to be leaner
Ewe necked
Weak brisket
Legs bend slightly
"D*vil's bite" at the shoulders (sorry, folks, that's the only term I've ever herd it be called)

Give me a break, and I'll try and do some more :wink: Sorry for the less than complete critiques!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks, Ariella!  

Less-then-complete-critiques are O.K. on these girls, 'cause I don't have 'em anymore 
Yes, they were both small-ish does. I see now, looks-wise, they were nice does. Temperament wise...these are the kind of goats that send you high-tailing AWAY from anything goat  It was the babies that saved me from running away from goats  they were so cute!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Oh, and what does ""D*vil's bite" at the shoulders" mean?


----------



## thegoatgirl

Her shoulders are kinda rounded...I can't think of any way to describe it well... I read it in a book, which has since been chewed to pieces, and that was what it was called.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ok, so not sharp, clean withers, right? 

Hmmm...goat happened to like the book as well?


----------



## thegoatgirl

Pretty much, LOL!

And yeah. At least she enjoyed it!


----------



## margaret

Ariella could you do my buck?


----------



## thegoatgirl

Give me a few minutes, Margaret :wink:


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okaaay... here ya go :wink: I was not able to complete this because I can not see his head, just FYI!

Pros~
Gorgeous buck over-all!
Excellent dairy character
Very nice general appearance
Good breed character
Good depth of jaw
Very nice rump
Rump is level
Good dairy wedge
Rump is nice and long
Good angulation
Nice strong pasterns in the rear
Very strong chine!
Extremely smoothly blended
Very upstanding
Fair brisket
Very sharp in the whithers
Good length
Ribs are angled towards thighs
Strong pasterns in the fore
Tight elbows
Legs look to be placed correctly under his whithers
Long, lean neck for a buck in rut
Good breed character

Cons~
Legs are slightly bent
Needs more body capacity/depth in the rear barrel


----------



## margaret

margaret said:


> I need some practice. I'll do Oreo in a minute.


Hmm, never did this doe.
Pros:
~Long body
~Long rump
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Clean, sharp withers
~Strong chine
~Good angulation to the rear legs
~Hocks parallel with pin bones
~Very angular throughout 
~Good dairy character
~Good brisket
~nice fore udder
~nice width to rear udder
~Strong medial
~neck blends smoothly into brisket
~Good depth to heart girth
~Good depth to rear barrel
~Uphill

Cons:
~toes out in front
~toes out in back
~Needs a higher rear udder
~Needs to be more smoothly blended from brisket into the point of shoulder
~Needs to be more smoothly blended from neck into brisket
~loose in the shoulder and the elbow
~rump could be a tad more level.

There, Ariella what did I miss?


----------



## margaret

thegoatgirl said:


> Okaaay... here ya go :wink: I was not able to complete this because I can not see his head, just FYI!
> 
> Pros~
> Gorgeous buck over-all!
> Excellent dairy character
> Very nice general appearance
> Good breed character
> Good depth of jaw
> Very nice rump
> Rump is level
> Good dairy wedge
> Rump is nice and long
> Good angulation
> Nice strong pasterns in the rear
> Very strong chine!
> Extremely smoothly blended
> Very upstanding
> Fair brisket
> Very sharp in the whithers
> Good length
> Ribs are angled towards thighs
> Strong pasterns in the fore
> Tight elbows
> Legs look to be placed correctly under his whithers
> Long, lean neck for a buck in rut
> Good breed character
> 
> Cons~
> Legs are slightly bent Rear legs?
> Needs more body capacity/depth in the rear barrel


Only 2 cons?
Hey, I'm fine with that:lol:


----------



## thegoatgirl

Good job :wink: 

LOL! His fore-legs look just a tad bent, IMO


----------



## Scottyhorse

Penny:

Pros: 
Wide horn set
Decent blending throughout 
Good depth of body
Good blending into heart girth and rear barrel 
strong front and rear pasterns
straight front legs
point of shoulder blends well into chest
appears to have a strong jaw
good blending in the throat latch
long topline
long rump
feminine head

cons:
Needs larger bones
Needs more overall muscle mass
Would like to see more width from the front to the rear
Would like to see more breed character in the ears
Would like to see a deeper twist 
Topline and especially rump could be more level
Would like to see a longer neck
Short bodied 
I know that I said above she was fairly smoothly blended, but something about her shoulders just really bugs me, they look too big for the rest of her. 

And now for Ginger 

Pros:
I like her more than Penny
She is overall much more proportionate than Penny
Topline is alright, but could be more level. 
Topline is long
Long rump 
Nice depth for her size
Nice, clean chest floor
Very good blending in the heart girth and rear barrel 
Has a nicer neck, IMO. 
Nice length of body
Good feet
Good coloring
Overall more pleasing to my eye and nicer to look at than Penny 

Cons:
Weak pasterns
Toes out in rear
Would like to see more breed character in ears and nose
Would like to see her more level over the hips
No rear shot... but guessing she could use a deeper twist as well
Likely needs more width
Would like to see a bit more bone


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks, Sydney!

More pictures of Penny: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f231/learning-critique-167726/index77.html
They both have narrow chests  I wish the both had more width.

Who do you think is better, Penny or Isabelle? Isabelle is Penny's twin and is on page http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f231/learning-critique-167726/index72.html )
These are recent pictures of Isabelle: (sorry, but she is a goat that WILL NOT pose!  )

Do you think Penny and Isabelle will improve as they grow older? (They are around 10.5 months old.)


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

*Margaret & Lindsey!* I see no critiques of my Alpines yet!


----------



## Scottyhorse

:chin: Not sure who I like better between the two. Isabelle's coat looks rough and scruffy, though. 

They could improve, in certain areas, but toplines for example, don't usually improve with age. Some do, but, most don't.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

What might improve?  Yup, I'm working on their coats


----------



## margaret

Lets do some Nigies
This thread seems to have died


----------



## margaret

Pros:
~Long body
~Long rump
~level rump
~good topline
~Sharp withers
~good uphill stance
~Strong rear pasterns
~Good depth of heart girth
~good depth of rear barrel
~Good strong head
~deep jaw
~Open nostrils
~Good fore pasterns
~Good angulation of the rear legs.
~blends smoothly from the neck into the withers and the shoulder
~Strong chine

Cons:
~Needs more brisket
~needs longer leaner neck
~Looks to toe out a little
~Needs to be a little smoother blended from neck into brisket
Would someone mind telling me if I got anything wrong and what I missed?
Thanks


----------



## spidy1

We are still missing some... maybe we should re-post them... Mis Feona is one, not the best pics, she's shy, she's my new precocious baby and first full blood Lamancha! She started milking at about 3 months and is about 5 now.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm NOT going to be first again, folks!  :laugh:


----------



## spidy1

awww, come on...LOL!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Need a better picture or her set up  'sides, I've already critiqued her!


----------



## margaret

yeah could we get some better pictures?


----------



## spidy1

I can try, she's quite shy.


----------



## spidy1

How's these... it's only me so it's up to the goat to cooperate, she wasn't...


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Much better, because her head's up  Not 'perfect' but who cares! 

Pros:
-Strong jaw
-Wide forehead
-I think she's got a decent horn base width
-Nice deep jaw
-Fairly clean throat latch
-I think her neck is slender, but hard to tell since she's fuffy 
-Neck is a nice length
-Sharp withers
-Good tight shoulder
-I think she's got decent brisket
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in rear & middle barrel
-Good spring of ribs
-Excellent front legs
-Good fore pasterns
-Good body length
-I think her topline is pretty level in general ( not exactly in these pictures)
-Flat boned
-Good dairy character
-Well assembled hind end
-Long rump
-I don't think her rump is as steep as in the pictures
-Good strong feet
-Good incurve in thigh
-Good back legs
-Good rear pasterns

I really like her...she's cute! And I think she's actually has pretty good conformation 


Cons:
-Neck could be a tad longer though 
-Rump is steep
-Could use more brisket
-Lacks chest floor
-Topline could be a tad more level
-She could cooperate a bit more! 


Alright, come on pros! We're waiting! (Margaret too.... and Lindsey  )


----------



## spidy1

Thanks! I think you nailed it! If she was cooperating, her topline would be level and her rump would not be as steep, but what do you expect from a semi wild baby? LOL! She's finally coming (and attacking me) for grain, it's taking a long time, but baby Feona is coming around!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Alright, I did her, who else is going to take the plunge?  Margaret? Lindsey? (neither of you did my Alpine does   )


----------



## COgoatLover25

Oh my gosh, I am such a slacker :lol:
I'll try to get some of those done tonight


----------



## bbpygmy

2 year old Nigerian doe


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

If y'all wanna do my alpine Nubian buck let me know.


----------



## margaret

I will


----------



## InTheCrookedPinesFarm

Kinda bad quality. Lol, he is the smelliest goat and I don't like touching him.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I already did that Nigerian, so someone else has to now!


----------



## LuvMyNigies

Is this thread dead? It is very interesting! I've gone through the entire thing starting at the beginning in the last couple of days. I have never critiqued a goat before, but I think I've learned a lot by matching critiques with the goats! I went outside and started looking at my goats from a critiquing standpoint, and they look pretty bad! lol!  I think they might look better if I actually set them up properly (which I don't know how to do!  
Anyway, please don't let it die, it is very informative (and entertaining--no offence)!


----------



## spidy1

I'll have to get recent pic of Cylipso, my black Lamancha, I can't remember if we did her yet.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Oh my goodness, the whole thing?! Then you know how much I slacked off! :lol:
If you want to post one, standing the best naturally, if you don't know how to set them up, I'd critique one for you.


----------



## margaret

LuvMyNigies said:


> Is this thread dead? It is very interesting! I've gone through the entire thing starting at the beginning in the last couple of days. I have never critiqued a goat before, but I think I've learned a lot by matching critiques with the goats! I went outside and started looking at my goats from a critiquing standpoint, and they look pretty bad! lol!  I think they might look better if I actually set them up properly (which I don't know how to do!
> Anyway, please don't let it die, it is very informative (and entertaining--no offence)!


I was hoping to revive it in the spring when people had new milkers and new kids. And I'll be clipping goats for the spring shows. 
I'm glad you found it helpful, I learned a lot too.

If you want to post pictures of your goats I'd be happy to critique them for you. You might find the pictures on my website helpful for setting them up. On the FF page, I have front rear and side pictures of spruce. You want the hock to line up with thurls and the front legs to be straight down from the shoulder.

ETA-Lacie can do a much better job critiquing than I but I'm still happy to do them. Plus, I need the practice


----------



## COgoatLover25

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Oh my goodness, the whole thing?! Then you know how much I slacked off! :lol:
> If you want to post one, standing the best naturally, if you don't know how to set them up, I'd critique one for you.


If you want to talk about slacking...my record is probably the worst :lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

That sounds good, Spidy! And how-bout LuvMyNigies post some of theirs too 

Who wants to try a Kiko? Cause here's Caelie: These pictures are from September 2014.























(Never mind her coat there! She's looking better now, just working on the fish tail, lol  ) Here's a recent picture:


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## margaret

None of us do that good of a job keeping up was this thread:lol:
Wow, we have 101 pages!


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## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> None of us do that good of a job keeping up was this thread:lol:
> Wow, we have 101 pages!


Maybe we should make a sequel thread :lol:


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## margaret

Yeah called "Learning to critique for Dummies":lol:


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## COgoatLover25

2 :lol:


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## margaret

Yeah except we didn't add "for dummies" to this one so the new one would have to be Learning to critique for dummies 1 so we can add 2 to the next one. :lol:


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## spidy1

Let me know if there is a sequel coming, I'm not missing it! Here's recent pics of Cylipso... the pics aren't great, the weather isn't cooperating with me today lol! (note, she's cold and a little hunched)


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## margaret

I'll do her later I need to get back to work:lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Or Learning to critique 1 & 1/2 :lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

You two are having waaay too much fun thinking up names for thread #2! :ROFL:

...and you still have two goats waiting here!


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## margaret

Well if it's 1 & 1/2 it can only be 50 pages long so after that one we can have Learning to Critique for Idiots 3. :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Ok, so we need to finish up all the bucks/does on this thread… and then make another thread 

Cedar Point Kikos- Still have that list of all the ones that haven't been done?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

COgoatLover25 said:


> Cedar Point Kikos- Still have that list of all the ones that haven't been done?


It's a good thing I like making lists, lol! :ROFL: Here ya are:

-*Cylipso* - Spidy1 - _page 102_
-*Caelie* - me - _page 101_ (but i just posted her for fun   )
-*InTheCrookedPines's buck* - _page 101_
-*Spidy1's Lamancha Doe* - _page 100_ ( I did her...and no one else  )
-*bbpygmy's Nigerian Dwarf doe* - _page 100_
-*Margaret's buck* - _page 98_ ( I think he was done in the past though...)
-*HappyCaliGoats's Nubian buck* - _page 95_
-*My Alpine does* (Adelwiess, April & Snowdrop) - _page 94_ (Ariella did them, but they were for Lindsey & Margaret  )
-*Temperance* - _page 89 _( I_ think_ she hasn't been done...)
-*Spidy1's Lamancha doeling* - _page 83 (This is Fiona )
_ *-Tearza's: 
*

*Nubian Doe Sunna* - _page 75 _
*Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly* - _page 78 _
*Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner* - _page 80_
 -*Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe* - _page 80_
-*takethelead's lill' girl, River* - _page 81_
-*Lindsey's Nubian buck* -_ page 82_

I had to go back to page 91 to find my last list! And yes, some of the goats on the page-91 list have been done  
Soooo, I think that's all the ones that haven't been done  Feel free to mention any that I missed!  And I'll add them to The List


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I think the only two I have to do yet are Cylipso and Caelie...


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## spidy1

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> It's a good thing I like making lists, lol! :ROFL: Here ya are:
> 
> -*Cylipso* - Spidy1 - _page 102_
> -*Caelie* - me - _page 101_ (but i just posted her for fun   )
> -*InTheCrookedPines's buck* - _page 101_
> -*Spidy1's Lamancha Doe* - _page 100_ ( I did her...and no one else  )
> -*bbpygmy's Nigerian Dwarf doe* - _page 100_
> -*Margaret's buck* - _page 98_ ( I think he was done in the past though...)
> -*HappyCaliGoats's Nubian buck* - _page 95_
> -*My Alpine does* (Adelwiess, April & Snowdrop) - _page 94_ (Ariella did them, but they were for Lindsey & Margaret  )
> -*Temperance* - _page 89 _( I_ think_ she hasn't been done...)
> -*Spidy1's Lamancha doeling* - _page 83
> _ *-Tearza's:
> *
> 
> *Nubian Doe Sunna* - _page 75 _
> *Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly* - _page 78 _
> *Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner* - _page 80_
> -*Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe* - _page 80_
> -*takethelead's lill' girl, River* - _page 81_
> -*Lindsey's Nubian buck* -_ page 82_
> 
> I had to go back to page 91 to find my last list! And yes, some of the goats on the page-91 list have been done
> Soooo, I think that's all the ones that haven't been done  Feel free to mention any that I missed!  And I'll add them to The List


Thanks, we neeeeeed your lists!!! The does I have on the list other than Cylipso, (pg 83 and 100) is the same girl, my baby Feona, She's growing so fast, you guys will be seeing her allot, (she's due some time in June)!!!! You'll have to critique her (and Cylipso) as they grow up! And of course there kids! (Cylipso's due April!)


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Yes! Folks like my lists!!!:stars:  Glad you need them  
I've done Fiona, and am going to do Cylipso. Both are reeaal nice  Hopefully someone else will do them too  ( hint, hint  )


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## margaret

I'll try and get around to Lindsey's buck, BBPygmy's Nigerian, Dee's buck and Tearza's goes and buck.
I am out of practice, so the lists might be kinda short
But, I just remembered that Tearza is going to call today so I'll probably be talking on the phone *ahem* I mean busy doing _stuff_ all day so I most likely won't have time to do them.
Oh and we never decided on a name for the next thread.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Learning to Critique 2.0 :lol:


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## margaret

Very creative Lacie:lol: what about Learning to Critique 1.3756892?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I don't know... doesn't quite roll off the tongue like licensed cosmetologist... :chin: :lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

"Critiquing for Dummies Second Edition" :book: :lol:

Wait a minute...that means WE are the critiquing dummies...:laugh:

So on second thought...think,think...I'll have to think about...


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## margaret

The Idiots guide to Critiquing?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Cylipso:

Pros:
-Wide forehead
-Nice sharp withers
-Good brisket
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder and brisket
-Nice tight shoulder
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in rear & middle barrel
-Good capacity in barrel
-Nice capacity over all in body
-Has the makings of a good dairy wedge
-Nice long topline
-Topline is ok, but I think if she was set up, it would be quite level
-Legs are feminine
-Legs are strong, well built
-Pasterns are short & upright
-Rump is a good length
-Good body length
-Good dairy character
-Nice incurve to thigh


Cons:
-Neck looks a bit short
-Rump is steep
-Not uphill
-Looks like she lacks heel in her hooves


Ok, now someone else can do her!


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## spidy1

Thanks! I can't wait to see what her udders look like!


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## margaret

Ok, I will get to work.
Lindsey's buck

I haven't done this in a while so it might be kinda short.

Pros

~Good length of body
~Long rump
~Ok length of neck 
~Clean sharp withers
~Good uphill stance
~good brisket
~tight elbows
~Smoothly blended

Cons:
~A little steep in the rump
~needs to be stronger over the topline
~Posty rear legs
~Could be stronger in the pasterns
~Needs a leaner neck
~Looks to toe out

Ok, I feel like that was extremely lame:lol:


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## margaret

Tearza I'm gonna go with the pictures off your website for Sunna.

Pros:
~Long body
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Good angulation
~Well angulated in the rear legs
~Pretty Strong over the topline
~Strong chine
~Clean sharp withers
~hocks parallel with pinbones
~Good dairy character
~Neck blends smoothly into brisket
~Uphill
~high, wide rear udder
~Strong medial 
~Evenly placed teats
~doesn't toe out

Cons:
~Needs a better fore udder
~needs more depth to body, but as you said I'm sure that will come with age.
~A little steep in the rump but not too bad
~Needs more brisket
~a little short in the rump
~Brisket could blend better into shoulders

Alright, there is a more complete critique


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## margaret

OK, for Dee's buck

Cons
~Lacks brisket
~Needs more depth
~Front end could blend a little smoother
~A tad short in the rump
~Something seems weird about his rear legs
Pros:
~OK length.
~Level rump
~Strong, level topline
~Strong chine
~Long neck
~lean neck
~Strong pasterns
~Uphill
~Sharp withers
~Hocks are parallel with pin bones
~Good angulation throughout

I feel like I'm missing stuff but I'll leave it like that.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Lol, Margaret, I didn't notice you put 'cons' first on that last one, so was wondering "why in the world does she like 'lacks brisket' is good?!"  Silly me  

Nice critique on Sunna, though  :applaud:


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## LuvMyNigies

COgoatLover25 said:


> Maybe we should make a sequel thread :lol:


Oh! I'm so glad it's not dead! I would really like to post pics of my goats, but if you all are going to make a sequel, then I'll just wait if that would be better. Also, I think a sequel would be a great idea, especially for newbies who might be intimidated by the length of the thread. (i.e. 104 pages )

I actually found it when I was searching for something and I found Margaret and GlassvilleDairyGoats were talking about how their moms manage to homeschool 7 and 8 kids!! That is really neat! My mom thought she had it bad and there is only 6 of us!! 

P.S. Would you all mind if I put my two cents in and try my hand at critiquing every now and then when I have time? Thanks--and be sure to let me know when the new thread starts.


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

hahahahahaaaa!!! LuvMyNigies, now we have a 6, 7, & 8
It's Tearza by the way. 
Yes! that would be fun, it's always good to learn.
Talk to you later!
Meg,
thanks for doing that.
I'm actually not thrilled with her fore either.
and her rump is lllllooooonnnnggg really hard to see in the pics though.


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## LuvMyNigies

_hahahahahaaaa!!! LuvMyNigies, now we have a 6, 7, & 8_
_It's Tearza by the way. :wink:_
_Yes! that would be fun, it's always good to learn._
_Talk to you later!_

I know! That is so neat! :applaud:
Oh, and it's nice to meet you Tearza.


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## margaret

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Lol, Margaret, I didn't notice you put 'cons' first on that last one, so was wondering "why in the world does she like 'lacks brisket' is good?!"  Silly me
> 
> Nice critique on Sunna, though  :applaud:


:lol: I usually put pros first but sometimes my brain goes into modes where it forgets everything I ever learned and I can think of about 5 things to say about the goat, it helps to go through and type out all the cons first


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## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> hahahahahaaaa!!! LuvMyNigies, now we have a 6, 7, & 8


But you'll have 9 soon, that'll mess it up


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## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Meg,
> thanks for doing that.
> I'm actually not thrilled with her fore either.
> and her rump is lllllooooonnnnggg really hard to see in the pics though.


You're welcome


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## margaret

LuvMyNigies said:


> Oh! I'm so glad it's not dead! I would really like to post pics of my goats, but if you all are going to make a sequel, then I'll just wait if that would be better. Also, I think a sequel would be a great idea, especially for newbies who might be intimidated by the length of the thread. (i.e. 104 pages )
> 
> I actually found it when I was searching for something and I found Margaret and GlassvilleDairyGoats were talking about how their moms manage to homeschool 7 and 8 kids!! That is really neat! My mom thought she had it bad and there is only 6 of us!!
> 
> P.S. Would you all mind if I put my two cents in and try my hand at critiquing every now and then when I have time? Thanks--and be sure to let me know when the new thread starts.


Yes, it would probably be best to wait till the second one We're going to try and finish this one up and then make a new one


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I always see the cons first because that's how my brain was trained. Nit pick all the flaws out before seeing the good points, harsh I know but my brain works in the negatives first. :lol: That's how I don't get blinded by only the good points


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## margaret

Tearza's buckling. One of Marcia's, right Tearza?

Cons
~Neck could blend better into point of shoulder
~just a bit short in the rump
~Could blend better from the girth into the barrel
~Neck could blend better into the withers
~I'd like his front end assembly to be a little more smoothly blended
~Just a little steep in the rump

Pros
~Nice brisket
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Strong chine
~Strong topline
~Pretty uphill
~Good width between thurls
~Good dairy character
~Love the angulation in his rear legs
~Straight front legs
~Strong pasterns
~Good depth of heart girth
~Good depth of barrel
~Sharp withers


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Meg, Actually, Mom miscarried.... triplets.
:mecry:


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## margaret

GlassvilleDairyGoats said:


> Meg, Actually, Mom miscarried.... triplets.
> :mecry:


I'm sorry to hear that Tearza:tear:


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> I'm sorry to hear that Tearza:tear:


Thank you, she's alright now but it was hard on her. :blue:
Alright! back to goats.....


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

margaret said:


> Tearza's buckling. One of Marcia's, right Tearza?
> 
> Cons
> ~Neck could blend better into point of shoulder
> ~just a bit short in the rump
> ~Could blend better from the girth into the barrel
> ~Neck could blend better into the withers
> ~I'd like his front end assembly to be a little more smoothly blended
> ~Just a little steep in the rump
> 
> Pros
> ~Nice brisket
> ~Long neck
> ~Lean neck
> ~Strong chine
> ~Strong topline
> ~Pretty uphill
> ~Good width between thurls
> ~Good dairy character
> ~Love the angulation in his rear legs
> ~Straight front legs
> ~Strong pasterns
> ~Good depth of heart girth
> ~Good depth of barrel
> ~Sharp withers


Correct, one of Marcia's. he was just a kid in this picture


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Here in OKANOGAN OBERHASLIS NIKKI!
I'm stealing these pictures from Marcia :lol:
she is dry in he pictures just so ya'll know when critiqueing


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

I'm going to keep you busy.......


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## COgoatLover25

Tearza, I think Margaret wants to wait until we start a new thread to add any goats


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## margaret

I thought I recognized those pictures
But yeah, we're almost done on this thread, can you re-post them on the sequel?


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## margaret

Tearza's nubian Lilly
Cons
~Short rump
~Steep rump
~Lacks brisket
~Hocks are not parallel with pinbones
~Needs to be more uphill
~Needs to be just a little more smoothly blended from the point of shoulder into the brisket

Pros
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Good angulation to the rear legs
~Wonderful angulation through out
~Good dairy character
~sharp withers
~Very strong rear pasterns
~strong front pasterns
~Nice tight toes
~Doesn't toe out
~Strong, straight legs
~Good width between the front legs
~Excellent width between the hocks(you know how much I despise hocky goats)
~Good width through out
~Smoothly blended from the girth into the barrel
~Smoothly blended from the withers into the neck.

That's about all for now, gotta go


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## margaret

I think someone else needs to do some goats


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Oh yeah? Like who?


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## COgoatLover25

Certainly not me! :lol:


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## margaret

Yes Lindsey.............I think YOU! :lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Yeah, Lindsey! :lol:


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## margaret

The ones I did are in red
-Cylipso - Spidy1 - page 102
-Caelie - me - page 101 (but i just posted her for fun )
-InTheCrookedPines's buck - page 101
-Spidy1's Lamancha Doe - page 100 ( I did her...and no one else )
-bbpygmy's Nigerian Dwarf doe - page 100

-HappyCaliGoats's Nubian buck - page 95
-Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe - page 80
-My Alpine does (Adelwiess, April & Snowdrop) - page 94 
-Temperance - page 89 ( 
-Spidy1's Lamancha doeling - page 83 
-Tearza's: 
Nubian Doe Sunna - page 75
Oberhasli doe & Nubian Doeling, Lilly - page 78
Okanogan Oberhaslis Gunner - page 80
-Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe - page 80
-takethelead's lill' girl, River - page 81
-Lindsey's Nubian buck - page 82
So the ones that still need done are
-Cylipso - Spidy1 - page 102
-Caelie - me - page 101 
-InTheCrookedPines's buck - page 101
-Spidy1's Lamancha Doe - page 100 
-bbpygmy's Nigerian Dwarf doe - page 100
-Temperance - page 89 
-Spidy1's Lamancha doeling - page 83


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## margaret

Lamancha Acres Montage's Chloe
Cons:
~lacks brisket
~Looks a little posty in the rear legs
~Needs to be a little stronger in the feet
~Could blend just a little more smoothly from the point of shoulder into the brisket
Pros:
~Long neck 
~lean neck
~Sharp withers
~Strong pasterns
~Long body
~Long rump
~Level rump
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~Smoothly blended from the neck into the shoulders
~Good depth of heart girth
~Excellent depth of body
~Feminine
~Good spring of rib
~Excellent dairy character
~Good udder attachments
Very nice doe!


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## COgoatLover25

K, just a minute…or an hour :lol:


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## GlassvilleDairyGoats

Haha! yes, I can post them in the sequal , just E-mail me the web address Meg


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## margaret

Will do Tearza


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## spidy1

Me too!!!!!!!


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## margaret

seriously guys, get to work!


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## LuvMyNigies

:smile: Exactly _how _many goats are left?


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## margaret

7


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## bbpygmy

LuvMyNigies said:


> :smile: Exactly _how _many goats are left?


No one has done mine yet


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## spidy1

Come on guys, what's the sequel:laugh:?!!!!!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Those youngin's are taking too long to finish this one!!!  
I have removed my goat Caelie is off the "Goats To Critique" List  You guys don't have to do her


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## LuvMyNigies

tick, tock, tick, tock....


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## margaret

Ok, I think I'm just going to make a sequel now. I'M sorry if your goat didn't get done. Post it on the sequel and we'll do it there.


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## margaret

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f231/learning-critique-dummies-1-5-a-175373/


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## Cedar Point Kikos

And for meat goats: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f231/learning-critique-meat-goats-1-a-175649/#post1850503


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