# Barn smells, ummm....



## snubbie (Apr 13, 2014)

So my goats shed is just a dirt floor. I keep it reasonably well raked out, sprinkle a little lime and diatomaceous earth which seems to help with flies. 

Pretty much it just has that "goatie barnyard" smell, which really isn't objectionable. No strong urine odors or ammonia smell. But they pee in it and that's where they lay and sleep, get out of the weather etc. They constantly have dirty patches on their hide.

So I had the great idea to put down sand. It would allow liquid to flow through and facilitate raking up the goat raisins. I bought the kids play sand like is used in sandboxes.

Apparently I've made a mistake.

I put 400 pounds of sand in their shed less than a week ago and the overall, uhh, "dynamics" of the smell has changed. That barnyard goatie smell is secondary to very strong urine odor!

Anybody try sand? I believe it is actually holding the urine rather than letting it just soak on through.

Advice? Experiences?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh no! I don't have experience with sand but I have one shed that is dirt and one is wood....the wood seems to hold the urine smell more, but both get cleaned about once a week (sometimes two if we are extra busy)and I lime heavily before adding new bedding. Seems to work. Is that what they have for bedding? Also, I keep mine from getting dirty patches by adding more hay every time I notice it looks "wet" or needs freshened.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

You might try a load of rocks and add straw or wasted hay on top.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

I use Sweet PDZ, sand and Food Grade DE. PDZ is horse stall refresher. It neutralizes and eliminates ammonia. Most feed stores and TSC carry it.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

We did the sand on top of small rocks so the urine would go down to the rocks. Well it was not a good idea. I normally am not in the barn a lot in the summer because the goats aren't either, the water is outside and it is just to warm for them to hang out there. 

We have had so much rain that they have been in the barn for about a week, coming in and out, but man is the smell horrible and yes part of my goats smell is the ammonia smell. I feel horrible because I have not had a chance to get out there and clean it all up, plus the roof is leaking with all this rain so that water is not helping either. I will be using a lot of Lime and DE that is for sure.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, the urine is just collecting in the sand. If I was you, I would clean out what I needed to get most of the urine soaked sand out, level what is left, and get some stall mats. It will be life changing for you, I promise! With stall mats you don't get the urine soaked flooring, and it takes 5 minutes to clean up all the bedding and replace it with new. It will cut the smell, and flies down SO much!


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## countryfarmgirlforever (Nov 2, 2013)

Yep I agree with Audrey. I have some leftover stall mats from having a horse and I use them for my goats now and they are a life saver! Invest in some you wont regret it. I use straw for bedding and its so easy to clean out! Alot of feed stores have them and so does tractor supply. They tend to be on the pricey side but i think its totally worth it!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

But the problem with the Mats is the urine sits on them and the goats lay on them, plus I have way to big of a barn to cover that. It soaks in my goats Cashmere Fiber.


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## countryfarmgirlforever (Nov 2, 2013)

What kind of mats do you use?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Those of you using mats covered with bedding - how many goats are you housing? How thick do you put the bedding and how often do you replace it? Do you do this in all seasons?

Snubbie - I'm SO sorry you spent all that money on 400 lbs of play sand only for it to fail! What a bummer!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I too added sand.....I will be scooping it all out and going back to pea gravel!


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Ohhh, now I want barn mats


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wouldn't pea gravel get messy real quick with pellets? How would you clean it up?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I have a dirt floor in my barn, and suddenly I have a spring that has popped up in the middle of the goat stall. Ugh, what a horrid, stinky mess.

I use pine shavings mixed with cedar shavings to help with the smell and bugs in the summer. The pine cuts the strong cedar odor enough so that it does not cause a problem for the animals but the cedar is still strong enough to repel some of the bugs. Makes the barn (and kennel) smell nice while it repels fleas and a variety of other bugs.

I fork out the worst of the wet spot every day, clean the entire stall once a week.


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## Frosty (Feb 13, 2010)

PDZ and don't seem to have any problems with smell. I have dirt floor and use straw or hay for bedding.. I clean out once a week.. I have four does in one stall and two boys in another smaller stall..


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## snubbie (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice. I started with just hay bedding. First time I raked it I about freaked with what I found underneath. I got rid of it and just went with the dirt floor this summer. The flies virtually disappeared. I know I'll have to add bedding back this fall/winter but I'm reluctant until cooler weather returns.
But I'm sure I'm going to have to remove the sand. Wasted money but lesson learned.


Humm, maybe I could sneak the sand into my little girl's sandbox without mom noticing?? Just got to come up with an alibi to explain the goat raisins.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

....:lol: I think she'd notice!!

What did you find underneath? We use pine shavings in a layer beneath the hay unless we have really small kids...it helps to absorb the urine.Oh, and we use a hoe to scrape the floor when we clean it.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I made the decision to scoop out and replace pea gravel tomorrow thanks for the push!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You'll be busy


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Suggestion for ya Chadwick.. Leave the sand and just put pea gravel on top. I added pea gravel to my duck run..... it quickly disappeared. I came back and put down sand then a thick layer of pea gravel. Works like a charm! I can rinse it or broom rake it. Drains much better and dries quickly. My 3 Does having been using this area as well. I lock everybody in at night. If it is not raining, the Gals bed down outside the shelter just fine.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh my barn is on 6 inches of limestone as a base then 6 inches of pea gravel to fill the rim joist! It is all drainage! Yeah, I tend to take thing to the extreme!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

NyGoatMom said:


> Wouldn't pea gravel get messy real quick with pellets? How would you clean it up?


I thought it was better than the sand, I can pitch fork the bedding right off of it. Plus I am not scared of poo, so I just grab them and toss into a bucket! If I had more than three it would be impossible but I don't!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

With any of my stalls or barns I put down mats. I sprinkle lime and DE on them. I put down a layer of sawdust or shavings (usually sawdust because it's free from the woodworking shop) and then I put down a layer I straw. The urine goes straight down to the mat. The lime neutralizes it and the sawdust absorbs it. Most of the poop pellets fall down threw the straw so it stays fairly clean. I use a 2" x 12" board in the doorways so my bedding doesn't escape. I do this for horses, goats, and cows and don't ever have any urine smells issues and it's easier to get all the pee out. I replace bedding as needed and strip down once a month and burn all the bedding 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Chadwick said:


> I thought it was better than the sand, I can pitch fork the bedding right off of it. Plus I am not scared of poo, so I just grab them and toss into a bucket! If I had more than three it would be impossible but I don't!


Seems like a lotta work "picking berries" :lol: Just don't make me any pie!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I use an extra large cat littler scoop in my little nannies stall. Those little berries are a pain the butt. That was the only way I could figure out how to get all of them out. I just duck taped it onto an old broom handle :-/


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Zarafarm (Aug 26, 2013)




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## snubbie (Apr 13, 2014)

NyGoatMom said:


> ....:lol: I think she'd notice!!
> 
> What did you find underneath? Oh, and we use a hoe to scrape the floor when we clean it.


  Goop.

Yep, requires a hoe to be scraped up.

I'm confused about the mats. Seems to me once the urine hits the mat, that's as far as it's going. 
Lime+shavings+hay makes sense. After those layers it can just go into the ground. Seems the mats would prevent that.

Either way, I'm doing like Chadwick and shoveling out the sand this weekend. I'll put down lime and I have some sawdust. Then I can cut some grass/hay/weeds and lay that down.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I use the mats because I don't want the urine going threw the ground. I don't want to get saturated spots in the ground from them standing around peeing


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

The 6x8 shed which I converted into my goats' home was originally made to be an exercise pen for my fancy pigeons, so I had made the floor with birds and their abundant by-product in mind. 
The floor was composed of about 4-5 inches of drainfield rock on top of a wall-to-wall layer of 1/2" hardware cloth. The hardware cloth layer was to protect the pigeons from burrowing predators as well as to keep the drainfield rock from sinking into the soil and vanishing. When it was in active use, the building was cleaned by simply hosing it until all of the droppings dissolved and sank into the rocks where natural soil bacteria broke them down and turned them into odorless compost. (Think of it as an undergravel aquarium filter that's been adapted to work on land.)
It was still working perfectly about 5 years after I made it when I finally sold all of my pigeons. (This was a few years ago, so all traces of "bird" are long gone.)

I am hoping that the basic concept will also work for the goats, but, because 4 goats produce a LOT more waste than a dozen or so pigeons, I modified it by fitting together an additional top layer of leftover OSB board scraps (varying from about 1x4 feet to about 2x3 feet, and placed shiny side down) and then topping those scraps with a few inches of pine shavings. The OSB's main purpose is twofold: to keep the pine shaving litter from clogging up the drainfield rock before the bacteria can do their job, and to allow me to remove most of the goat berries. I expect to pick up, discard and replace the OSB pieces eventually since I assume that they will get urine-soaked and stinky, but it's not very expensive.

So far this system is working perfectly. Its pretty easy to shovel out the litter, and since the board scraps are smallish they allow the excess urine to drain away between them. The small amount of litter and etc which gets between the pieces of board is no problem for the soil bacteria so far, and the goats' home smells like hay, not ammonia.

I am optimistic that this concept can work, but if it ends up being a total failure I will be honest and admit it. It will get tested very severely when our months-long rainy season gets here in late October, and if it's still working by next summer I will call it a total success. *fingers crossed*

By that time I will probably be trying to figure out how to make the building bigger without totally starting over.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Chadwick said:


> I thought it was better than the sand, I can pitch fork the bedding right off of it. Plus I am not scared of poo, so I just grab them and toss into a bucket! If I had more than three it would be impossible but I don't!


I also use my hands, If I forgot the to grab the shovel. The trick is to grab the bedding AROUND the poop


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Well scooped out the sand down to clean gravel. Because my barn is on a bed of limestone above grade I was able to take the hose in and rinse out the gravel....the water came out downhill of the barn! 
The smell was gone in no time! Like seconds!

Sprinkled a thin layer of lime then new gravel on top, taking a break now then bedding replacement!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Nice, the barn is right back where it was before the sand!


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