# skull fracture



## imported_ashley (Jun 9, 2011)

I have a 15 week togg that, while headbutting his friend, appeared to have broken his horn. The entire thing was "loose" but still firmly attached. He was bleeding out of his nose and from the horn base. We rushed him to the Caine Center (U of I teaching vet. clinic) where they determined that he likely has a smashed frontal sinus and they think his horn integrity is OK, that the sheath of the horn is dislodged from the horn bone and that the gross movement is from the broken sinus that lies underneath. He thinks that the cranial vault is intact and there are no facial/major nerves involved as he is neurologically intact. Has anyone experienced this and what did you do/what was the outcome?

"moose" is in alot of pain but there is minimal bleeding now, the vet said "leave him alone" for a month or two and see how it heals on its own. He said the horn sheath may fall off.... any suggestions or words of support? Thanks!!


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I have heard of then breaking the sinus cavity and the bone healed back fine. I have never heard of one dislodging the horn sheath....yikes. I am very interested to follow this. Can you post updates?

Thanks


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## imported_ashley (Jun 9, 2011)

Moose is doing well, despite the skull fracture. I was very worried about the sinus involvement but he seems to be healing well with no complications. His horn has a slight tipped back angle now but is still anatomically correct and the horn sheath is still in place so hopefully it was not as dislodged as the vet initially thought. You can see the edge of the horn sheath on the lateral portion of the horn base but it still seems attached. My worry is that now that he is feeling better that he may want to play and head butt another goat and re break the skull. I am going to keep him by himself until next spring but I still worry that there may be some inherent weakness to the previously broken bone. I am watching for discharge from his nose but there has been none so I think all is doing well, all things considered. The vet said that if the horn sheath was dislodged enough, it would fall off that as long as the underlying bone of the horn remained intact and perfused that a new horn would grow over the horn-bone. Hopefully I don't have to find this out.. No one told me how stressful goat-ownership could be! Its so hard seeing them hurting and not be able to do anything about it..


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## imported_ashley (Jun 9, 2011)

This afternoon Moose whacked his head and dislodged the healing broken horn. The horn sheath is now loose though the underlying bone is intact. There is ALOT of bleeding that has slowed with the help of some corn starch. The vet says that the horn sheath will fall off and that a new horn will grow over bone....has anyone ever delt with anything like this? He talks like it not a big deal but I am soooo worried that this will be an ongoing problem. I am now regretting our decision to have horned goats...Do horned goats in heards have alot of problems with injury? And what about mixing various age groups? My older pair is very mean to the younger pair yet they are only about 3 months apart and all are horned. I don't know whether to sell the heard and start over with 4 that are all the same age or just ride this out. We have some excellent future packers so I don't want to get rid of them but this constant injury situation is emotionally draining..


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm sorry you're having tough time. It can be discouraging to have a problem this early in the game, but I don't think you should start over. Accidents and injuries come with the territory of having animals. Believe me, if you had de-horned goats you would probably end up with one getting injured by a dog and you'd be questioning your judgement just as much. It's the Murphy's Law of livestock ownership. 

I got a 2-year-old filly for my 12th birthday and she fractured her front leg three months later. I spent most of the next year and all of my savings nursing her back to health. It was a hard introduction to horse ownership, but I had that mare for 19 more years and shared the best times of my life with her. So don't get discouraged, and certainly don't give up! My goat lost a horn a few years ago, and it was traumatic and expensive, but we all lived through it and now everyone for miles around is familiar with our "one-horned wonder goat". Take comfort in the fact that goats are usually extremely hardy, resistant to infections, and have a high pain tolerance compared to other creatures. Goats are survivors!


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## imported_ashley (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks for the encouraging words. How did yours loose his horn? I have been spending hours on the internet trying to find similar situations as Moose's...I have yet to find anyone who has experienced a 1)skull fracture with horn sheath dislodging and 2)horn sheath dislodging further just when I think we are on the road to recovery. And wow, goats can bleed. I work in EMS for a living and i've seen my fair share of blood, but what this little guy is putting me through is tough! I don't know anyone who is involved in goats so this is a little trial-and-error for me. Well, hopefully little Moose makes it through this one!


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

So sorry for you and Moose ashley.  It shouldn't be that much of a big deal, we have had goats who weren't properly ringed and they have a 'mini horn' which just looks like a smaller horn base. The horns isn't bone, but he is probably talking about the skull - in which case, it will most likely be more like a big scur. It may or may not be a horn-like shape (without the tip) but just keep an eye as it grows and you can always get it taken off if it starts to grow the wrong way. With our horned goats, we got a cut under a does' tail possibly from a horn, plus, definitely from horns, several bad bruises, muscle damage/limping, sore/weeping eyes and bloody heads. Plus some bruises in our own eye-sockets, faces, chests and legs. We never had a horn damaged though I don't think. 
I heard on another forum that someone had a very dominant buck who would ram a tree just to beat it, and eventually knocked one horn off and bled to death. :? But that would be a very rare case I would hope.
Cuzco, Nanno's goat, lost his horn being chased off a cliff by a dog. She may be able to find the post she wrote about it for you.
All the best for you and Moose, and I'll be checking for updates. 
Cheers,
Cazz


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

The long-winded story of Cuzco's accident is near the bottom: 
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=34

Cuzco's horn broke in a couple of places, but the more serious break was right at the base. The whole thing was knocked down onto his neck. I'm not sure if the skull was broken or not, but the vet recommended amputation. He said the big bleeding crack would be an attractive place for flies to lay eggs, and it would be a prime spot for infection which could end up in the sinus. We didn't want an ongoing problem, and we were also worried that the loose horn could too easily get knocked off and cause Cuzco to bleed to death. On the other hand, if the horn stayed in place, we were concerned that it would eventually be growing into his neck. Even as it was, it prevented him from tilting his head back properly, so we agreed with the vet that it should go.

If it's possible, you may consider banding your goat's horn now so it can drop off completely. Cazz has some very good posts on how to properly band a horn. That way you won't have to worry about it any more. And I'll say this again... goats are extremely hardy and resilient. We were amazed at how quickly Cuzco bounced back after his ordeal. I'm sure your little guy will also be just fine. =)


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

As Nanno says, banding could be a good idea - didn't think of that Nanno! But, I just realized when I saw what you had written that banding cuts off the blood flow, so you would have very little chance of serious bleeding.  Plus, when it has come off there would be more rapid healing and no chance of it getting knocked again. 
Hope he is going well ashley.  
Cheers,
Cazz


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