# Selenium free choice - is there a product?



## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

Hello all
Wondering if any of the selenium/vit e crumbles or powders would be effective and safe as free choice ( vs adding to feed or bolusing. )
Im likely soil deficient. Daily my girls eat a lot of hay (alfalfa and timothy) vs lots of graze. 
i have purina minerals free choice for them as a start.
Thoughts?
Ty


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You have to be careful. Selenium can become a toxic dose. Free choice is not a good idea.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You can offer a selenium salt lick as extra selenium


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If you already have selenium issues, you’ll need to supplement first before the selenium salt as maintenance.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I saw that redmond salt sells a selenium salt. Do you have any experience with that @NigerianDwarfOwner707?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

MellonFriend said:


> I saw that redmond salt sells a selenium salt. Do you have any experience with that @NigerianDwarfOwner707?


They have a few. Any product of Redmond's with selenium would be good - whether it's their goat mineral (salt) or their selenium blocks!!


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## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If you already have selenium issues, you'll need to supplement first before the selenium salt as maintenance.


My breeder got back to me (only about 2 hrs away from me) and said her herd has not needed selenium and copper bolusing outside of free minerals. 
so maybe my best approach is to use good mineral and watch for issues vs just dosing 
Ty


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## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> You have to be careful. Selenium can become a toxic dose. Free choice is not a good idea.


Ok thank you. The toxicity range does seem pretty narrow 
Since in new to this and a nurse i feel great need to have my med stock in order


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Your breeder is NOT you. Every situation is different. Where you buy your hay, what browse you have, what type of grass, what your water source is - these are small differences that can cause deficiencies very easily! Post some photos of them and I can tell you if there are signs of selenium or copper issues.

If not, then you’re fine with just your loose mineral


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

These should help:

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/wouldnt-bose-shot-monthly-be-dangerous.208569/#post-2302123

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads...me-those-minerals.194612/page-24#post-2277761

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/selenium-oral-or-injection.173708/

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/selenium-oral-or-injection.173708/#post-1820438

https://www.horseguard.com/shop/store/horse-health/overall/vitamin-e-organic-selenium/

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/selenium-yeast.170342/


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

I have a goat mineral block that has the proper amount of selenium needed for my goats. My area is very low in selenium.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Canadian Goat Mom said:


> I have a goat mineral block that has the proper amount of selenium needed for my goats. My area is very low in selenium.


Do you have a loose mineral as well?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I live in a very low selenium area.
I feed American Stockman SE90 which is a high selenium loose mineral.
If you are having issues, this helps.

Call around to you feed stores.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I live in a very low selenium area.
> I feed American Stockman SE90 which is a high selenium loose mineral.
> If you are having issues, this helps.
> 
> Call around to you feed stores.


Could you post a link to this?


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Do you have a loose mineral as well?


No. The minerals are the same just that it's in a block and not loose.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Canadian Goat Mom said:


> No. The minerals are the same just that it's in a block and not loose.


Can you post a link?

Goats have very soft tongues, they cannot get the amount of minerals they need from blocks.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

@toth, which one from American stockman there are a lot?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You feed this along with a loose mineral? Sweetlix?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I get a loose selenium salt like toth has just its only selenium and zinc, not a trace mineral salt with added selenium. I just put it out free choice along side the loose minerals.
I had made a post a few years back about selenium and someone had shared a supplement they feed to their goats for extra selenium. When I get time I’ll see if I can find it. I think it was a powder or a pellet and you just mix it into their grain.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok it was tennacross that uses this. 








You could probably message him if you have any questions about it


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Can you post a link?
> 
> Goats have very soft tongues, they cannot get the amount of minerals they need from blocks.


Well that's untrue. My goats definitely consume the mineral block without issues.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Canadian Goat Mom said:


> Well that's untrue. My goats definitely consume the mineral block without issues.


Have you offered loose minerals to compare the consumption rate? There have been numerous accounts to show that blocks do not supply goats with enough minerals.

I have heard of a few extremely soft and crumbly blocks that practically turn into a loose mineral, may I ask for the brand+guaranteed analysis+ingredients?


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Have you offered loose minerals to compare the consumption rate? There have been numerous accounts to show that blocks do not supply goats with enough minerals.
> 
> I have heard of a few extremely soft and crumbly blocks that practically turn into a loose mineral, may I ask for the brand+guaranteed analysis+ingredients?


I don't have the packaging. I just open them up and toss out the wrapper. I need a new one so will take a picture of the ingredients and post it if I remember too?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Do you know the brand off hand?


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Do you know the brand off hand?


No. I don't. I just pick it up.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

SO there is a company that does individual minerals. I'm planning on moving mine to that this next year. I wanted to this year but it didn't work out. They have individual selenium you can get. I personally, in my experience, feel you can leave it out free choice. I've done it with a few different minerals and they get what they need until they're good, and they slow down. 

I've also used Animed Selenium/E powder made for horses and put that out as well for them, usually during pregnancy. It's worked good here.


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## Canadian Goat Mom (Jun 28, 2020)

Selenium should not be given free choice in high levels because toxicity can happen. A mixed mineral block or loose minerals is a safer choice. Horses and Goats are totally different species. I would stick with products that are made exclusively for goats.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

The problem is that there are hardly any products made specifically for goats and some that are, are seriously lacking as they don't do much research on goats. Many people use cross-species supplements. If you worm your animals with the common wormers, none of them are approved for goats. Cattle minerals are used for goats constantly. I know quite a few people that put out individual minerals (21 different minerals in a feeder that allows them to choose) which includes copper and selenium, and their goats do fantastic. They eat what they need.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Jubillee said:


> The problem is that there are hardly any products made specifically for goats and some that are, are seriously lacking as they don't do much research on goats. Many people use cross-species supplements. If you worm your animals with the common wormers, none of them are approved for goats. Cattle minerals are used for goats constantly. I know quite a few people that put out individual minerals (21 different minerals in a feeder that allows them to choose) which includes copper and selenium, and their goats do fantastic. They eat what they need.


Yes, other species' products are fine to use on goats most of the time.

But listen, we all like to err on the side of caution, correct? So long as we are getting the job done.

Free choice selenium isn't necessary, because we have gels and other supplements that do, in my opinion, a lovely job!!

I think better safe than sorry with selenium and copper is the way to go - this is why we give copper boluses instead of copper sulfate... and they work wonderfully nonetheless.

To each their own, but it is the job of mentors on TGS to guide people in ways that their goats will be the safest.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have to disagree.
Mineral blocks are indeed hard on goat tongues, they can make them raw. Goats can lick from it all day and not get what they need from it. 
Goats have to take actual chunks off in comparison to taking a few licks of loose minerals.

My area is very low in selenium, so, I do use a high selenium loose mineral. American Stockman SE90.
My goats are doing just fine on it and I sometimes even have to give a Bo-se shot, despite the high selenium loose minerals. 
This is when the does kid and hold onto their afterbirth too long, to some newborn kids with weak legs.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes, other species' products are fine to use on goats most of the time.
> 
> But listen, we all like to err on the side of caution, correct? So long as we are getting the job done.
> 
> ...


I agree that we err on the side of caution. Hence why I chose selenium yeast as it's a more natural source that leaves the body faster. We use gels monthly and sometimes have to do the yeast in addition as we are pretty deficient here. I tried the selenium salt but they didn't eat enough of it, I imagine due to it being salt and they have the salt in their minerals too.

Everyone should always research any advice given. All areas are different and even standard advice can be wrong for some in certain areas. Just offering that there ARE other options that can be explored should it be needed.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Actually I think free choice would be the better option. I know a few people who have a whole buffet of different minerals out and their goats are ALWAYS stunningly beautiful. But really think about it. In a mix of minerals you have all the minerals. If the goats are good on say copper are they going to even touch the minerals even though they need selenium (total examples here). Or if they badly need selenium then they are going to consume it like nuts and end up getting too much copper. If it’s separate minerals out free choice they can pick and choose what minerals they need. If the price for each mineral as a buffet wasn’t a arm and a leg that is exactly how I would do it. 
Yes you can supplement but it’s really trial and error until we get it figured out and every goat is different. For most of my goats I can get away with a copper bolus every 4 months, I have a few that look like crap if I wait past 3 months. I have over the years had to watch and keep GOOD records on every goat to find out what each individual needs are. But there is also other factors that can totally throw everything off on a mineral. Did the hay you get that year test higher on one thing or another? If the animals are browsing was it a wet year and the grass/ brush/ weeds/ even the tree leaves have as much minerals in them as every other year? But we basically have to sit and watch which goats show signs of needing something and try to dial in what supplements to give and when. When we are actually SEEING those signs it’s because they have already reached that level of being deficiency. 
But yes I fully 100% agree that everyone is different, every animal is different and everyone has to do what is easier and right for them, in the end they are your animals and no one giving advise is going to be the one dealing with whatever issue you personally run into.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I have to disagree.
> Mineral blocks are indeed hard on goat tongues, they can make them raw. Goats can lick from it all day and not get what they need from it.
> Goats have to take actual chunks off in comparison to taking a few licks of loose minerals.
> 
> ...


American stockman SE90 is a loose mineralized salt, not a loose mineral.

I do hope you use a loose mineral as well.

SE90 is ~98% salt. Loose minerals are ideally no more than 25%.

SE90 has ~280-420 PPM copper. Copper in a loose mineral should NEVER drop below 1,000 PPM.

It's a great supplement to a loose mineral, though.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I use sweetlix meat maker 16:8 as well, I mix it with it, but I am having issues finding it now, when I need it. (doh)


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I use sweetlix meat maker 16:8 as well, I mix it with it, but I am having issues finding it now, when I need it. (doh)


That's what I figured 

Sorry you can't find it - Purina Goat Mineral stacks closely to it, but you'll just want to use it without additional salt!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I just found sweetlix finally, will be adding that back.
I may just eventually try doing it without mixing the American Stockman SE90 and see how the goats do.
Because I just noticed one bad thing in it, "Iron" drats, I have a well with iron in it. 
Have culligan treatment system but it that may be putting it back to them. 
No wonder I was seeing more fishtails. It cancels out copper. :bonk:
So anyone who uses it beware. 

But first, I have to use it up.  

The purina is a bit different but, would of been OK if I couldn't find the other. It is lacking some minerals.
Thanks for the info.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

The Purina formula was just updated, have you seen the recent one?

If you don’t mix it, but leave it separate, they may be able to balance that iron better!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No I haven't. 

Separating minerals, they may not lick from the other though, so kinda not sure what to do there.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> No I haven't.
> 
> Separating minerals, they may not lick from the other though, so kinda not sure what to do there.


Usually when supplying 1 salt source and 1 loose mineral source they eat each at healthy rates. I would try it and see! They are wonderful at self regulation. Unless they don't like the taste of Sweetlix by itself, I wouldn't worry - Sweetlix is low enough in salt content that they will still crave the SE90, and the SE90 is low enough in mineral content that they should still lick the Sweetlix. As a rule of thumb they will/should still consume higher quantities of the Sweetlix.

I offer mine a loose mineral + a separate loose salt (Redmond goat mineral salt) and they eat both just fine!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:greathighfive)


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## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> That's what I figured
> 
> Sorry you can't find it - Purina Goat Mineral stacks closely to it, but you'll just want to use it without additional salt!!


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## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

Im using purina goat too
I looked into the values and liked it plus easy to find


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## Rlarsen (Jun 13, 2020)

Thanks everyone - my little herd looks great. I change their minerals weekly - they do eat it. i ordered oral Selenium as well along with some mixed element boluses to have on hand.


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