# Please consider supporting our fight to access the National Forests!



## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

Dear friends and fellow goat packers and goat enthusiasts!-

Below is a link to share on your FaceBook page, Twitter Account, Email lists, etc, to support goatpacking. I have organized a fundraiser in behalf of NAPGA and all goatpackers in order to raise funds in order to provide enough money for Court costs in an effort to keep our National Forests open for us.

*Please consider donating! We estimate $80K in legal fees for litigation purposes to defend our rights to access the National Forests!
*
http://www.gofundme.com/7s4z5g


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Great cause. Will be doing what I can with what I have


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

They are seriously trying to make it so you can't take your goats in??? We lease grazing rights for our cattle from them and I swear they become more of a joke every day.....I'll check out your site


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

*Pack Goats Fundraiser*

Thanks for getting this going !! It is really needed !

I will do what I can to donate, and look for places to cross post this.

If we dont block this the bans will spread like wildfire from state to state forests. Without any scientific justification for the banning. :hair:

Its easy brownie points for those in the agencys to point out how great that they are doing in safeguarding the mtn lions buffets.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Posted a link on my home page and link page. I dont get but 30-50 visitors a day but every little bit will help.


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## saph (Dec 19, 2009)

Charlie, can you please post a few "bullet-type" talking points on this issue in this thread?
For example: why it is happening, what the implications are for goat packers, etc?
Also, if you want to learn more about the proposed Pack Goat Closure in the Blue Mountains, there are 3 public meetings left. After that, you can comment on the Closure until August 15, 2014. 
If you want to attend, the meetings are from 5:30-8:30 PM:

Tonight 4/4/14
Kennewick, WA
Benton PUD Auditorium
2721 West 10th Avenue

4/9/2014
Clarkston, WA
Walla Walla Community College, Clarkston Campus
1470 Bridge Street

4/10/2014
Ontario, OR
Four Rivers Cultural Center,
676 SW 5th Avenue


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## trailgoats (Jul 26, 2013)

The Blue Mountains are the whole reason my husband and I got into pack goats and we are FREAKING out now! We can't make it to the meetings because of work, plus it's over 9 hours drive to get over there. This sucks. I can't even imagine not being able to take the goaties back to the Eagle Caps.
We will be writing letters, and I'm gonna go give you guys a donation right now. Thanks for all your hard work.


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

_*Charlie, can you please post a few "bullet-type" talking points on this issue in this thread?
For example: why it is happening, what the implications are for goat packers, etc?*_

The Whiskey Mountain herd in the Shoshone National Forest of the Wind River Range in Wyoming is a pretty special bighorn sheep herd, and has been pretty large at times. Game and Fish personnel are frustrated due to the declining numbers, and are looking at all options to protect the Bighorn Sheep.

Some feel that their concerns are bordering on paranoia.

The Forest Plan for the Shoshone National Forest is due to be revised this year, and it includes banning packgoats from Core Bighorn Sheep areas. These Core areas that have been designated by Personnel encompass pristine areas for world class fly fishing as well as gorgeous views for hiking.

It affects goatpackers in the Shoshone National Forest in that the USFS are proposing permanent closure of 5 of the 6 Districts of the Forest.

The Forest Service has failed to acknowledge our efforts to implements strict Management Guidelines in order to minimize possibilities of packgoats commingling with bighorn sheep.

We know that our packgoats are quite different than domestic sheep, or "brush" goats. The Proposed Forest Plan Revisions lumps our packgoats in with the others.

In the past year, Larry Robinson and I have witnessed National Forests in California, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Arizona, wanting to close their Forests to goat packing.

So we are trying to persuade the U.S. Forest Service to enter into negotiations with us so that Bighorn Sheep can be protected and we can enjoy the Forest by carefully implementing our Best Management Practices.


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

trailgoats said:


> The Blue Mountains are the whole reason my husband and I got into pack goats and we are FREAKING out now! We can't make it to the meetings because of work, plus it's over 9 hours drive to get over there. This sucks. I can't even imagine not being able to take the goaties back to the Eagle Caps.
> We will be writing letters, and I'm gonna go give you guys a donation right now. Thanks for all your hard work.


Thank you very much for your support!!!!!


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

Hey Folks! I just got off of the phone with my friends at KSL Outdoors, the Saturday morning outdoor radio show in Salt Lake City! They were curious about why the Forests are trying to ban goatpacking and wanted to know more. They were eager to learn more about what we do and why we do it, and asked how they could help. KSL Radio, 1160AM and 102.7 FM has a very large listening audience! I told them that their listeners could help us best by donating to our site at www.GOFUNDME.COM! So they recorded our segment and it will be aired either this Saturday or the next!


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I shared this on my Facebook page and will try my best to donate. I would hate for this to come to pass or even worse, spread to my home state of Idaho.


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

Thank you!!!


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

I just tried making a donation but "GoFundMe" refused my payment.
Sorry....
I want to join NaPgA....I'll see what happens there.
I had hoped they accepted PayPal, but there's no option.


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

Suntoo- let me check on this and I will reply shortly. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

*Use credit cards at GOFUNDME.. or PayPal at NAPgA.org*



Suntoo said:


> I just tried making a donation but "GoFundMe" refused my payment.
> Sorry....
> I want to join NaPgA....I'll see what happens there.
> I had hoped they accepted PayPal, but there's no option.


Suntoo - If you use a debit or credit card at the www.gofundme.com site, it should work just fine. I am assuming based on the information that you provided, that you choose to use Paypal. I do not think that gofundme has that option right now.

You CAN go to the NAPgA site at www.napga.org and donate, and also become a member if you wish. NAPgA also accepts checks as well as PayPal.


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## vigilguy (Dec 12, 2008)

*Idaho*



FarmerInaDress said:


> I shared this on my Facebook page and will try my best to donate. I would hate for this to come to pass or even worse, spread to my home state of Idaho.


You can count on it coming to Idaho.

The US Forest Service just won a court case against the Wool Growers Association, which will end up putting two family domestic sheep operations out of business.

The Forest Service has tried to blame Bighorn Sheep die-offs on domestic goats in the Hells Canyon area, but the science proves otherwise. (Search for the Dr. Rudolph papers in the Journal of Wildlife Diseases)

Government and Private entities are hoping that you will take their word for it, instead of you taking the time to dive into the science reports.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

vigilguy said:


> Suntoo - If you use a debit or credit card at the www.gofundme.com site, it should work just fine. I am assuming based on the information that you provided, that you choose to use Paypal. I do not think that gofundme has that option right now.
> 
> You CAN go to the NAPgA site at www.napga.org and donate, and also become a member if you wish. NAPgA also accepts checks as well as PayPal.


GoFundMe just took a donation from me, I don't know why it wouldn't accept payment before.

Although I'm far from active (fibro, osteo, blah blah...) Goats are so much more amazing and diverse than people know. My intentions are to train my boys to drive a cart, at least to pull a wagon so I'm very interested in NapGa even though I won't actually be packing.

The NapGa site takes paypal but it looks like you still have to physically mail a hard copy of the membership form to them. Not sure it would do any good to pay them without a membership form. (I don't know why they don't have an online form to submit.)

Anyway, I hope you guys really fight the good fight! There is far too much interference from city, state, and federal regulations in so many ways!

The good people of Las Vegas and feral cat supporters have been duped and tricked by Feral Cat Rescuers and the City. Somebody is gettin' somethin' they got no business havin'.
It is now "illegal" for you to have an intact cat or dog over 4 months old. You can be charged with "harboring" and fined. All because no one was paying attention when all the negotiating was going on between the city and the rescues.

So PLEASE fight the good fight!


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## saph (Dec 19, 2009)

*The comment period for the Blue Mountain Forest Plan has been extended until August 15. We all need to comment if we want to have legal standing in this process:*

_BAKER CITY, OR - The time to comment on the Blue Mountains National Forests Proposed Revised Land Management Plan and Draft Environmental Impact Statement has been extended by 60 days; deadline for submitting comments is now August 15th. Regional Forester Kent Connaughton approved the extension in order for the public to have time to review the extensive document and submit comments.

From Malheur, Umatilla, and Wallowa-Whitman National Forests:
The Proposed Revised Forest Plan and DEIS became available for review on March 14, 2014 for a minimum 90-day comment period. The 90-day comment period was originally set to end on June 16, 2014, as identified in the federal register (https://federalregister.gov/a/2014-05674); however is now extended to August 15, 2014. The intent is to have the Extension of the Comment Period notice posted in the Federal Register on April 25, 2014.

The comment period is an opportunity for the public to be involved in the decision making process, to offer thoughts on alternative ways the Forest Service can accomplish what is proposed, and to comment on the agency's preferred alternative and analysis. Input provided by the public will help determine management direction for the final Forest Plans.

The Proposed Revised Land Management Plan (commonly known as a Forest Plan) and Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) covers the Malheur, Umatilla, Wallowa-Whitman National Forests, and a portion of the Ochoco National Forest (Blue Mountains National Forests).

A Forest Plan is a document that guides land management decisions (project or site-specific level planning) for a period of about 15 years. The Forest Plan is strategic in nature and does not approve projects or actions on National Forest System (NFS) lands; for example it does not close specific roads, trails, or areas - further NEPA and public engagement is required on these types of site-specific level decisions.

Interested parties may submit comments in a variety of ways. The Forest Service encourages the public to use the electronic system for submitting comments, which is available at: http://www.fs.usda.gov/goto/BlueMountain...nComments. Comments may also be submitted in writing to: Blue Mountain Plan Revision Team, P.O. Box 907, Baker City, OR, 97814 or faxed to 541-523-6392. Comments received, including names and addresses of those who comment, will become part of the project record and are available for public review. It is the responsibility of the persons providing comments to submit them by the close of the comment period (August 15, 2014) and ensure their comments have been received.

The DEIS and Proposed Revised Forest Plan can be downloaded from the Blue Mountains Forest Plan Revision website: http://www.fs.usda.gov/goto/BlueMtnsPlanRevision. Printed copies and/or compact discs (CDs) are available upon request by emailing: [email protected], or by calling 541-523-1302 or 541-523-1246; and also available to read at local libraries and Forest District Offices._


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Thx again for getting the word out & for taking the initiative for putting up the site.

People, every bit counts & I hope you find it in your heart to preserve this awesome privilege to pack with goats for additional generations. Don't get me wrong we totally care about the BHS but there is room and ways for both as responsible GoatPackers. THAT is what we are fighting for. Hands down PackGoats are the most environmentally friendly pack animal of all & make the smallest impact.

As the public we do have rights to this land so long as we are responsible. So, if you ever have GoatPacked, know some who does or even just want to at some future date...think maybe your kids & grandkids might want to...are concerned abut your rights & privileges being taken away by overstepping entities...PLEASE consider donating. Talk to your friends & family...get involved.

BTW, NAPgA membership is only $20/year....PLEASE consider at least paying your membership dues for the next three years in advance, it will make a difference. Make someone an honorary member.Think about it...$20 x 2000 people = $40,000 to fight this. 2 or 3 years would equal $80k or $120k. With those funds we WILL win as we have phenomenal legal counsel who has provided much pro-bon...but everything cost money. Timing is critical & now is the time.

I and my wife are members, I have donated. That said, if you have ever been interested in getting what may be one of the best long term goat shelters ever or nearly any livestock shelters for that matter..._now might be a GREAT time! *I.E. Poly Domes*_

After reading this thread I was inspired tonight...nice job Charlie. So...in addition to a personal donation, in the interest of supporting the _*"Legal Fees to support NAPgA's Court Cost"*_ I will be donating 10% of the total purchase of all Poly Dome products sold to goat folks that are sold between today and this years NAPgA Rendezvous in June. (No limit) While I wished it could be more but there just isn't that much profit in these shelters and still have bills to pay. :blush: Every bit helps the cause though I imagine. I will then donate the funds at: http://www.gofundme.com/7s4z5g

Please see thread for further details or Poly Dome items specifics, please visit www.PolyDome.com

PM me...be patient as selling these are more of a hobby, I sell them by appointment only & I also have a demanding day job. I sell to Western Wyoming, Utah & Southern Idaho...sorry we do not ship or deliver unless you buy 20 or more.

Cheers,

TOU


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Suntoo said:


> The NapGa site takes paypal but it looks like you still have to physically mail a hard copy of the membership form to them. Not sure it would do any good to pay them without a membership form. (I don't know why they don't have an online form to submit.)


 Thank you for donating to the legal fund.

If you decide to join NAPgA via PayPal, just put all the membership for info in the memo/note. Hopefully we can set it up easier via some kind of online form in the future.

Thx again,

TOU

P.S. Please consider paying your membership for 2-3 year or more in advance...every little bit helps


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Im kinda in between the crack. I refuse to use paypal. Years ago I had a dispute with them. I dont use personal checks. I could do a cashiers check but dont have a printer to print off the membership form. So will just wait till the NAPgA rendezvous in Bend OR. June 26th-30th this year and hope I can just hand over some cash and get it done.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

TOU said:


> Thank you for donating to the legal fund.
> If you decide to join NAPgA via PayPal, just put all the membership for info in the memo/note.
> TOU
> P.S. Please consider paying your membership for 2-3 year or more in advance...every little bit helps


Thank you,
I paid for a 2 year individual membership through PayPal giving my details in the memo from PayPal. I hope that's sufficient.
(I love my goats.)
:cart:


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> I refuse to use paypal. Years ago I had a dispute with them. I dont use personal checks. I could do a cashiers check but dont have a printer to print off the membership form. So will just wait till the NAPgA rendezvous in Bend OR. June 26th-30th this year and hope I can just hand over some cash and get it done.


Silly man....
I boycott Facebook. Since the first invasion of my privacy.

PayPal is so safe. 
I thought I needed a printer too in order to send a hard copy of the membership application, but there are only a very few questions asked and it was so easy to add that information to the memo on PayPal.
(just sayin'....and so you know.)

:book:


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

*Whatever it takes...*

People find a way ASAP to donate AND join NAPgA if you think it important to you, your family & friends to retain your right to access public lands (National Forest) with your goats. Be creative, make it happen.

While Rendy obviously works for those few that will be there but I imagine many packers, prospective packers & former packers will not make it. Also, I understand PayPal concerns, it is what it is; I used it & feel it was worth it even though I usually avoid it like the plague. I hate checks too & rarely if ever use one; cashiers, USPS MO's work though. Folks can likely use the GoFundMe.com link even though there are fees there as well & then send Larry (NAPgA-President) or Charlie (NAPgA-Land Use Chairman) email saying what the funds are for rather than a direct donation for legal fees. Heck, send a $20 bill or three with a piece of paper folded in a thicker envelope, it is doubtful it will be snagged_...what ever it takes._

As far as printing I would advise folks to use your local Kinko's, Mailbox Etc., UPS Center, Library, relatives, neighbor_. _I imagine you could also send the info via attachment in email or take a photo_...what ever it takes._

Bottom line is this, the funds are being used on a daily basis to file legal letters, briefs etc. with all the recently & newly announced bans. Additionally their is a strong chance that this will hit by mid summer...I would really hate to be a day late & a dollar short & kiss it all good by forever because we did not get around to it in time.

JMHO

TOU


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Suntoo said:


> Thank you,
> I paid for a 2 year individual membership through PayPal giving my details in the memo from PayPal. I hope that's sufficient.
> (I love my goats.)
> :cart:


 You're awesome...nice job! arty:


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I dont think you understand... I dont have any worry with paypal being safe. I know it is. I also know I CANT use them. You see, years ago I sold a computer CPU on ebay. The buyer got it, installed it and used it for a 2 weeks. Even left a positive feed back stating it was as described and worked perfectly. After the two weeks I get notice of a complaint from this buyer. He now says he didnt get it. So I send in the back and forth emails between me and the buyer. I even showed them a copy of the positive feed back left by the buyer. Submitted a copy of the shipping receipt. But because I didnt have delivery confirmation, they sided with the buyer and refunded him his money. They then of course wanted me to repay them that money. After a long back and forth, I explained they could go %&*# themselves and from that point on, I can no longer use paypal without first paying them back.

So you see, when I say I dont use paypal... I really dont use paypal


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

So are you saying that you want me to print you off the form and send it to you? Then you can just enclose a money order from the post office.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

See now GH has  I needs me someone to hold my hand. 

Thanks GH but I actually have it on a jump drive. I just need to remember to take it with me sometime and get er done


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