# Predator Concerns



## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

One of the questions we always get asked about is if we worry about predators while using goats. The answer is yes and no...

We are concerned and for good reason. We have Bears, Bobcats, Mtn Lions, Coyotes and now the government thought it would be nice to re-introduce wolves to the western states. So yes, we are concerned. We carry a handgun just in case. Besides, you never know what other two legged crazy nut may be hiking the same trail. When you are in the middle of no-where, you aren't going to get any help from the police.

Honestly though, I worry more about other peoples dogs. They always charge right in while other predators may be put off by human smell. If I tie the goats I try to leave some used clothing item laying nearby so the odor will deter any lurking predators. If we've been on the trail long enough it may deter other hikers as well. :shock:

Fortunately some of the closest predator encounters have been without the goats along. I posted a wolf photo in the "Horned vs De-horned" discussion but thought it might be fitting here as well.

Fortunately we didn't have the goats along. Its just coming daylight, hence the grainy look. We had hiked into the area well before daylight. Nothing will make the hair stand up on the back of your neck like a pack of wolves howling near you in total darkness. They showed up a little while later chasing the elk we were hunting. They saw us and were not afraid. That makes me wonder how they would deal with goats left unattended at camp. Not a pretty thought.
[attachment=2:5mtm9yba]Wolf Pack.jpg[/attachment:5mtm9yba][attachment=1:5mtm9yba]Wolf watching Elk.jpg[/attachment:5mtm9yba][attachment=0:5mtm9yba]Wolf at 30 yards.jpg[/attachment:5mtm9yba]


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

I have had more trouble with peoples' dogs than anything else. But I worry about wolves too. Other predators, like mtn lions, bob cats, coyotes and bears are wary of people and seem to stay away, but I hear lots of stories about wolves coming close and not shying away. Another thing I worry about is rabid animals. We have a real problem with that here in NM. Mostly foxes, but it is being seen in other animals as well. The thing about an animal with rabies is that it won't act normally. A mtn lion would normally disappear if it smells, hears, or sees you. But one with rabies may or may not. And a rabid animal doesn't actually have to do much damage to you or your critters, a little bite is all it takes. That's why the handgun is so important to have.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

jross said:


> Another thing I worry about is rabid animals. We have a real problem with that here in NM. Mostly foxes, but it is being seen in other animals as well. The thing about an animal with rabies is that it won't act normally. A mtn lion would normally disappear if it smells, hears, or sees you. But one with rabies may or may not. And a rabid animal doesn't actually have to do much damage to you or your critters, a little bite is all it takes. That's why the handgun is so important to have.


Yikes! I can't even imagine being in the woods with a large predator (including dogs) with rabies and not having some sort of protection. The normal pepper spray and noise deterrents would probably have little effect since they would be out of their heads anyway.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Your vet can vaccinate your goats against rabies. You, however, are on your own.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Hummmm.... somehow that doesn't make me feel any better.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

sweetgoatmama said:


> Your vet can vaccinate your goats against rabies. You, however, are on your own.


And having your animals vaccinated is only partial protection. I know a guy who was at a party where everybody was playing with the hosts' dog. A week or so later the dog got sick and was diagnosed with rabies. Everybody that had touched the dog had to undergo rabies shots. The host was an irresponsible idiot for not vaccinating his dog, and everybody else paid the price. I get my dog, cat, and goats vaccinated. But, you are right, us humans are on our own. I wonder if they have a rabies vaccination for humans?

Another thing to worry about here is rattlesnakes. My dog got bit a couple of years ago. Pretty bad deal, but he survived. Now I get him a rattlesnake vaccine shot. I don't know if they have one for goats, but I think my goats are pretty vulnerable to snake bites since they are always browsing around in the brush and rocks.


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## cryptobrian (Apr 26, 2012)

Any concerns with black bears? I don't usually think of them as being predatory ... but I've seen a few accounts of black bear attacks on live stock. I've come across black bears while hiking and backpacking and honestly have never felt threatened, they stay very clear. But would a bunch of goats gathered in a camp at night draw attention?


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I've seen them on occasion but they have never presented a problem with us. I did receive a VHS tape a while back from a goat packer in Montana who videoed a bear paralleling him and his goats as they hiked along. The bear eventually turned and came straight at them so he touched off a round from his .357 mag. (Thats a big hand gun for those who may read this and not know gun lingo) That was way too much for the bear to take and it hit high gear getting out of there.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

One thing to keep in mind is that wild animals like deer, elk, and predators may see your goats and not realize that there are people present. I have had that happen several times. Animals that I normally couldn't have gotten close to saw the goats and ignored me. That's ok if it's a deer or elk that's just minding its own business, but a bear or wolf that sees the goats as prey and doesn't realize that there are humans present can really be dangerous. That may have been what happened to Rex's friend who had to scare the bear off. The goats may actually attract predators, and their scent may mask that of the humans that are with them. While out hiking without the goats I don't worry much about predators. But with the goats along I pay a lot more attention.


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## Huckleberry (Mar 12, 2010)

We've had a lot of coyotes come in at home in last few weeks and it's got me thinking...what the heck will we do to protect them at night in the backcountry! We're going to start bringing the boys with us this summer into the wilderness and remote locations and I'm really worried about coyotes and other predators. I can only imagine myself not being able to get any sleep out there, worried crazy over the boys. These guys have become my best friends and I want to keep them safe out there. Down the road we plan to carry a lightweight solar fence, but the boys won't be able to pack that kind of weight for several years so that's not an option for now. How does everyone keep their goats safe at night on the trail?


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## salmonfisher77 (Jul 15, 2009)

We camp IN bear, couger, and Wolf country!! We Hiline our goats at night and have never had a problem! Most predetors stay VERY clear of human scent and dont think its an issue!!


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## turbot (Jun 6, 2010)

I worry most about wolves. I pretty much quit packing in the Bob Marshal because of them. They are brazen during the day and downright unafraid at night. In addition, the wolves along the Rocky Mountain front seem to be turning more nocturnal because of "interventions" by the locals. They don't want another Northern Idaho here in Montana. Mountain lions also get me a little nervous as well. My lead goat is very confident on the trail and will often lag behind 100 yards in the dark and I worry about cats picking him off as we pass. I must say that although coyotes can kill a goat, I worry very little about them. I have had coyotes right in camp at night and the goats must keep them pretty honest. They have every dog in my neighborhood is well trained.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

So far I've been lucky. Or maybe I stink so bad, or make so much noise, that predators haven't been a problem. I put bells on my goats around camp so I can tell where they are. I have heard from old timers that bells keep mountain lions away. Don't know about wolves, tho.


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## CASDOG1 (Feb 1, 2013)

I would love to see wolves in the wild. We have had red wolves in my area for a long time now but they are incredibly shy & I have never seen one in my entire 33 years. I will do what is necessary to protect my animals, but the whole reason I hike is to see the wilderness & its denizens.


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## Wordman (Jan 9, 2013)

I always worry more about people than animal;s and I sleep outside every night. my dog helps keep the people and critters back and awakens me. but, for keeping animals away from your camp, a good trick i learned from a mountain man novel is too piss around your camp. i do it a lot and it spreads your scent.


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## turbot (Jun 6, 2010)

CASDOG1 said:


> I would love to see wolves in the wild. We have had red wolves in my area for a long time now but they are incredibly shy & I have never seen one in my entire 33 years. I will do what is necessary to protect my animals, but the whole reason I hike is to see the wilderness & its denizens.


Be careful what you wish for.


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## citymink (Feb 7, 2013)

I second the pissing. I do it even around the barn and chicken coop and it detours the yodies atleast. Although some times the goats want to stick there noses in it if they see me doing it.


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## gina (Jul 28, 2013)

I have one 3 month old buck I will just be starting to take out for day outtings. I hear ya, I will pack my
my 357mag. I am very interested in knowing what you do to protect a goat at night when we are not able to see and the predators are.


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