# Goats as Pack Animals...



## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm fairly new, so please pardon my silly questions... 
But I wanted to ask...

Is there a reason why all the research I have been doing for "packing" goats is about wethers?
Are Does not suitable for some reason?

I would REALLY like to keep some of my Doelings from the babies that I get next spring (I am not going to keep any males at all)...
I want to bottle feed the babies myself, and teach them to pack starting from day one (me being mama, teaching how to lead on a leash, then follow, etc), but I was wondering if there was a reason why I have not seen of anyone using females for packing....

Again, if this seems like a silly question, please forgive me...  I'm just curious.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

I have heard does aren't as strong as wethers. And does can get their udder caught on things say in the woods. I have also heard of people packing with does so they can have fresh milk on the trail. I think it just depends what you want to do.


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## Bambi (Jun 10, 2012)

Hi! Wethers are used because they are generally larger and can haul more weight. But you can use Does , we do. I have eight does that do packing and driving. You do have to be careful of the udders and watch for sticks. I personally think does are better workers than the wethers. We also have seven wethers that pack and drive , they are good but slightly lazier than the does. 
Good luck and have fun.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

I wonder if there is something that I can do to help protect the udders.
Like a "cup" that men wear in athletic events?
Hmmmmm... Will have to try something out. LoL


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Ditto all that the others have said.... but I was thinking... sounds like you'd like to retain a few does specifically for packing? wouldn't it be possible just to not freshen them and then they won't have the big udders? I'm pretty sure the two does my friend has that haven't been freshened are still practically udder free (@ 4 years old).... maybe I"m completely wrong... just thought I'd throw that out there.... Good luck!
M.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's also discouraged for safety sake. If a pregnant doe were to ever get loose or a mixture that created a breeding population FS would ban pack goats everywhere. NAPgA tries to discourage the use of does for that reason. 

Do be aware of the rules in Alaska. Pack goats are already banned in areas up there.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Good to know hiker. Thank you!
I called Fish & Game, and after being transferred a few times, the guy said that goats aren't allowed in certain areas not because of a fear of cross-breeding, but because of an illness the mountain sheep had that they didn't want to have introduced into the domesticated animal populations. That said, seeing as the two species are related, I can completely understand the fear of inbreeding too....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That must have come across wrong. I meant if a feral population of goats ever got started. This guy loses a doe, this guy loses a young buckling, a pregnant doe carries a buck to term. They all join up and breed and eat up the National Forest. 

When I lived in Tok, AK during the 90's there were feral pigs everywhere. Those things get huge and very destructive. They were worse then the grizzly bears.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh wow. Did they eliminate them?
Amazing how a pig can survive here with no assistance, especially in Tok. (Speaking of which, I really want to move there!) LoL

And a Feral population of goats in the Alaskan forest would be a SCARY thought! OMG they WOULD eat it! LoL
Just my 4 does cleared 1/4th of an acre in a couple of days. I can't even imagine what a group of 50 or more would do after a year! Yikes!!! That's just Scary!


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## FairSkies (Oct 14, 2012)

The Board of Game has a 2013 proposal on limiting the use of pack animals in the taking of large game. I am not sure if it extends to recreating, although if the reasoning is based on infecting wild animals with domestic diseases (not the other way around as the OP was apparently told), then it should apply universally. It is Statewide proposal 126 on page 197 of the 2013 proposal guide found here: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static-f...eboard/pdfs/2012-2013/bog_proposals_12-13.pdf

"Statewide
PROPOSAL 126 - 5 AAC 92.085. Unlawful methods of taking big game; exceptions. This regulation would prohibit some pack animals from being used for big game hunting.
5 AAC 92.085. The following methods and means of taking big game are prohibited in addition to the prohibitions in 5 AAC 92.080.
(x) the aid or use of domestic goats (Capra spp.) and sheep (Ovis spp.) as pack animals is prohibited in sheep, goat, or muskox hunting,
ISSUE: Disease, primarily pneumonia, has caused major die off events in wild sheep populations in the lower 48 states. Once such a die off occurs, disease persists in the surviving animals and in many cases, the population is not able to recover. To date, Alaska has not documented such a large scale, pneumonia caused, die-off. Studies conducted at Washington State University and by the Idaho Game and Fish Department have demonstrated an empirical link between wild sheep contact with domestic sheep and these disease events.
Alaska's wild sheep and goat populations are at risk as we have large populations dispersed across large expanses of contiguous habitat. Once introduced, disease could easily be transmitted across long distances as animals move through their ranges and comingle. Further, Alaska animals are immunologically naive, as they have no prior exposure to these pathogens and the result of exposure to these diseases could be severe. Most populations of muskox in Alaska are in a state of population decline for unknown reasons. These animals are particularly sensitive to disease introductions, having the lowest genetic diversity from multiple population bottlenecks.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF NOTHING IS DONE? If a regulation is not adopted the risk of disease transmission to Alaska's wild ungulate populations will remain and may increase if the use of domestic goats and sheep as pack animals increased in the future. If disease transmission occurs the economic and conservation impacts could be large.
WILL THE QUALITY OF THE RESOURCE HARVESTED OR THE PRODUCTS PRODUCED BE IMPROVED? If this regulation is adopted, it could prevent die-offs that could reduce sheep, goat, or muskox populations.
WHO IS LIKELY TO BENEFIT? Sheep, goat and muskox hunters, wildlife viewers, and wildlife enthusiasts that harvest and enjoy these resources.
WHO IS LIKELY TO SUFFER? Pack stock operators/hunters who choose to use domestic goats or sheep as pack animals.
OTHER SOLUTIONS CONSIDERED: We considered restrictions of other domestic pack animals that may pose lesser risks of disease transmission to wildlife. Also, although the transmission of respiratory disease from pack goats and sheep to Dall sheep, mountain goat and muskox can only be prevented with absolute certainty through prevention of any contact, herd health programs may be feasible to reduce and manage the risks for use in some circumstances.
198
PROPOSED BY: Alaska Department of Fish and Game at the request of the Board of Game
EG050412658"

I'd rather they just require us to test our stock (as we already do) before they can go out on the trail!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, we're fighting this in Wyoming too. I don't get why they don't just make us use vaccinated stock. There's a perfectly good Pasturella vaccine and vaccinated stock doesn't carry disease. It could be made part of their health certificate for some areas.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree. If you take your animals out, you should carry papers that show they have been tested, and cleared of everything!
Not only that, but I know of a couple who lives on the side of a mountain here (near Palmer), and they have well over 20 goats, and about 16 sheep. They have a decent setup, with the goats having about 10 acres fenced of for them, and she sheep another 6 or 7. 
These people LOVE their goats and sheep, and I hear MANY times a year that they bring in multiple new animals into their herds, and most of the time, they come from unknown sources (I won't mention any names, but in case they come onto this forum, they WILL know who they are! LoL). IMO, this is VERY irresponsible. But I can't tell them what to do....
I have ALSO heard that they have had occasions where the WILD sheep (or were they goats, I don't remember, will have to ask next time) came down the mountain, and visited with their animals through the fence....
Normally that wouldn't happen in a more populated area, but they are a bit up there on the mountain, and they own well over 100 acres up there...
Who's to say one of their goats or sheep is not carrying a pathogen of some sort? (That's a scary thought!)

Also.... Don't you find it amazingly arrogant how they listed solely Human Beings as the ones who would benefit from this restriction.... As if the Mountain Goats, Sheep as well as Muskox would NOT benefit from NOT getting sick.???


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

re the feral pigs, last I heard there were self-sustaining populations in all 50 states. A major problem.


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## FairSkies (Oct 14, 2012)

I don't think we have feral pigs in Alaska.

I won't vaccinate my stock as I have no need and the pathogen mutates too much to be effective. This is one reason the vets cite for not simply allowing vaccinated stock to go packing.

I'm told by DFG that the statewide ban on State-owned lands did not pass. I don't know the status of specific area restrictions, though. And, most of Alaska is still owned by the Feds so those areas have different rules.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

These wern't feral pigs like they have in the midwest. These had gotten loose from somebody and gone feral. They would show up about sunset and destroy everything in their path. 

Now isn't the time to say testing for everything. We don't want to lose what freedoms we have. We've got it now so that we can hike 3 states without getting health certificates. We want more freedom, not less. 
If goats carry Pasturella and sheep carry Pasturella, it would make sense to me that the Bighorn Sheep do also. They were dying out long before this packgoat hobby became widespread already. I doubt the chance of meeting a pack goat in the mountains is what is doing it to them.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

reported for Fairbanks Alaska several years ago as a sustaining population. Not sure they are still there though.


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