# 4H/FFA showing



## ISmellLikeGoats

I'm having a hard time learning about anything to do with livestock showing for Oklahoma 4H/FFA - I have kids in both.
They want to show meat goats. Nobody else in their 4H group shows them, the FFA advisor isn't really interested in goats, though they are popular here, because pigs are the big thing this year - I've tried with him, he's like talking to a brick wall just trying to get show information, and a list of rules/regulations.
They'll also be showing dairy goats, but I at least understand the rules there and know what I'm looking at there as far as papers, disbudding, etc, plus there are folks that show dairy goats in their 4H group.

I have a ton of questions, so please bare with me. Kids ages are 9, 11, and 14 (the FFA student)
Do meat goats have to be "dehorned" or just tipped? I mean I can get disbudded babies or disbud some of our Boer babies coming up if they can be shown. If we buy a prospect, I don't want to get something with horns and be told they can't show it, or get something disbudded or dehorned and they want horns - know what I mean?

Do they have to be registered? I'm a little beyond how it matters if a meat wether has papers or not, considering the end result. Wondering if we can use our own stock for prospects or if I really need to buy something papered - our stock will be PB Nubian buck on commercial Boer does this year, a Kiko/Nubian cross, and a Saanen/ Boer cross (both the Kiko and Saanen crosses are from does purchased pregnant) - along with Nubians for the dairy classes. I didn't have a Boer buck this year so let the Nubian guy pillage the village. I haven't seen any Boer bucks I really like that aren't commercials in my area, but hoping to add one over the summer. 
Or, do they do different classes between purebreds and grades? Does color and markings matter?

What are the age groups and classes, as far as the goats go? I tried asking the Ag advisor about this but never got a reply. I think my kids will show in different classes, Jr. and Sr. if it's anything like horse shows for showmanship. 

I'm just lost, I called the county extension to get some hands on help but still waiting on that, and any input would be great. I showed horses in 4h and FFA, and that's really different because papers don't matter at all even for halter class on that level (since they aren't sanctioned shows run by APHA or AQHA etc), and really nobody cares about papers when it came to reining and trail classes since it's based on ability and not conformation.
I'm almost to the point of giving it up and having the kids show our horses instead, except they are really interested in the goats, so trying to make this happen, but it hasn't been easy going. 

Feel free to add anything I might have missed here. I'm open to learning and suggestions.


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## SalteyLove

Yikes! Sounds complicated. Sorry you are frustrated. I don't have any answers but hopefully this bumps up your post for other show people.


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## ISmellLikeGoats

Thanks. I talked to the ag extension 4H supervisor today - she didn't know either. She sent me the rule book for our county livestock show but it also doesn't say anything about any of that. It goes in depth with the cattle and pigs but with goats there's barely any information. I found some guidelines for Texas rather easily on Google, but nothing for Oklahoma. 

Dairy goats are so much easier, lol.


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## Valley Life Farm

I show Dairy goats but the 4H club we belong to is mostly meat goats. I can ask our adviser if I can give you her email to ask your questions. She has raised/shown meat goats for years and years and is an amazing resource. I'll message you as soon as I hear back from her.


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## jschies

You need to find the rules for the market show that your kids will be in. Some shows want the goat disbudded, some want them tipped. You are right about papers, there is no point in a meat market animal having papers. If you breed them and want to sell breeding stock to other people, it might be a benefit. Or if they are entering meat goat breeding shows they might need papers.

Most meat market shows have an age limit and a weight range--can't have lost milk teeth and about 65 to 125 lbs are common. The best thing to do is really find those rules for the show and look around for a mentor from another club. If you can't find a mentor before entering a prospect show, you should be able to wander around and ask people questions at one. Or just show up without a goat at a show and ask questions.


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## jschies

I just noticed that you found the rules. If it isn't there, it isn't a rule, right? However, there might be some unformal rules for your area...


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## ISmellLikeGoats

Here's the rules for the county spring show next week, which we will go and observe - every other one has a whole page, this is the entirety of the goat part (cattle, pigs, sheep, and dairy cattle all have an entire page with info pertaining to registration, etc)

[G_o_a_t _D_e_p_a_r_t_m_e_n_t]
MarketWetherGoatandDoe

ALL GOATS MUST BE NOMINATED FOR THE OKLAHOMA YOUTH EXPO TO BE
ELIGIBLETOSHOW. NOTE:THE MARKETGOATSHOW ISOPENTOWETHERGOATS
ONLY.Does and MarketWetherswill beshown inTWODivisionswithaDivision
Champion andReserveChampion being selectedfrom eachdivision

It didn't copy/paste well from PDF but that's all of it. The youth expo didn't have any better information either.

Thanks Valley Life, I would greatly appreciate it. I may just end up starting the kids out in the ABGA shows and let them do it that way if we can't get a leg up on the rules for our local 4H/FFA. It doesn't look like there are a lot around here, but we'll see what we can do.


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## jschies

Is there anything that tells you how they get nominated? That is really strange!


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## ISmellLikeGoats

The layout for the nomination just tells you what to pay and to send in a DNA sample? I don't know it seems really weird to me too.
Here's a link to it: http://okyouthexpo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/2018-Oklahoma-Youth-Expo-Goat-Rulebook.docx.pdf

If anyone else gleams anything out of that, I didn't. ETA - looks like the whole mess didn't load for me the first time I found a lot more further down.


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## ISmellLikeGoats

Actually almost at the bottom I found this, so that's a little hopeful:

Goats All goats must be accompanied by an official CVI (health certificate) issued within 30 days of arrival. The CVI must show the animal to be free of any infectious, contagious, or communicable disease and a statement indicating the animal to have been inspected and found free of scabies and other external parasites. All goats must be individually identified with an OYE tag in addition to one of the following: 1. USDA tag 2. Official breed registry (LEGIBLE) tattoos. A copy of the registration papers must accompany the animal at all times. 3. A 2018 official OYE tag will be sufficient for market wethers. OYE tags are considered official ID for wethers; it is illegal to remove them prior to slaughter.

I found more further down, but this is show specific for the OYE, and not sure it's what we need for local shows since we aren't doing OYE.


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## jschies

The important stuff was on pages 25 and 26. Horns must be tipped, gives the weight range, and states that they must be shorn. But you are right, different shows have different rules. Pick the show that you will enter and find the rules for that.


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## HoosierShadow

Do you have a fair board that you can contact to get information? Every state, and county can be very different, so what happens here will be different where you are at. 

In KY we are required to have a scrapie tag, and a KUIP tag which is a state ID tag that is inserted at authorized tagging sites in May (shows start here end of May - Aug/state fair).
Our state has district shows, then there are the county fairs. County fairs follow the state rules, regardless if you plan on going to a district show or state fair.

Goats must have their milk teeth. I think minimum weight here varies, but average is 30-35lbs, and no maximum that I am aware of.
They are shown by weight. In our state you can show wethers with horns, but they must be tipped to 1/2 in.

Our fair board handles the goat show rules and regulations. If your 4-H leader is not giving you the information you are looking for, I would go to the fair board and request information. Otherwise maybe try contacting a neighboring county and talking with them and see if they can offer any information.

My kids are the only kids in our county that show goats and pretty much has been that way for a long time. However, here in our state you can show at just about any county fair, not just your own. So our county fair show ends up being fairly big. We have market, commercial, breeding & dairy classes (my kids prefer Boer breeding classes).


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## ISmellLikeGoats

I talked to our county extension agent with OSU and finally got ahold of someone that knows the goat program after 2 months of bugging them and finally just saying that if they weren't willing to help we'd show with ABGA and not as 4H/FFA. The FFA advisor knows about it but he's just unhelpful because swine are the big thing this year and that's all they are focused on - that came straight from the 4H leader. 
He actually told us wrong to begin with, and I'm not sure if that's intentional, because he said they have to have milk teeth and that is not the case whatsoever for showing here. We have a nice 3 year old doe that's been shown the kids can get their feet wet with, but didn't go because we were told she'd be DQ'ed for her age. 
No tooth rule (so any age), horns have to be tipped and rounded, and they do commercial classes and don't need registration for those, even though it says you have to have the papers and tattoos but if they aren't registered they said it's not a problem.

That's why I wanted to ask someone who knew, and the link I have is for the big show but apparently is the guideline for county and state as well. This stuff is crazy.

That said, they have a horse show coming up we are prepping for and it's so much easier/clearer/and understandable. Big rule, no studs and no medicated horses. Easy peasy.


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