# Could We Discuss Pasteruization ?



## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Somehow, I can't believe no more goat people pasteurize than have mentioned it. WHY?? The process has been around over 100 years and has saved countless lives, as raw milk is the #1 food based disease outbreak (according to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) ).

Before ever getting a goat (or looking at this forum) my wife (the clean freak RN) had already determined that the process was viable for a small in-the-kitchen dairy. Simply heat the (strained,near goat body temp) milk to 161f *then* cool *rapidly* to 40f as most of you already do.

*GREAT TASTING MILK!! *that we'd not hesitate giving to a newborn Human!

Bob


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I understand why people do it. But since we take great care to make sure our goats and the milk is healthy and clean, we do not. Pasteurization also destroys many of the vitamins that are very beneficial and also aid in digestion.

So that's why I personally don't, but I do understand the reasoning behind it. If I had a very large farm I would. But I'm only going to have a very small herd of milkers. Right now we have two milkers that we watch very closely and know exactly what they are eating.. We practice sanitary milking, and handle their milk with care.

As someone with digestive and health issues, I can personally say the raw milk has made a difference. =)


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Lots of folks prefer it raw.  As Woodhaven said, pasteurization kills the good flora too.
But you probably know that.
So it really comes down to ejumocated personal choice.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Well Bob, it's not that everyone is dead set _against_ pasteurizing, but most, including myself feel that there are many benefits to consuming raw milk... pasteurizing of course makes milk "safe" by killing off any bad bugs that may be there but it also kills off the "good" things. To each is there own and yes, I would agree with not consuming raw milk during pregnancy as there is another life to consider in the case that there would be "bad" things in the milk and especially if the mother to be is new to the concept of raw milk.
I've never had any issues with raw goats milk, in fact I was weaned from my own mom to raw goats milk and for as long as I've had goats or had them raised when I was growing up, the milk was never pasteurized, at this point in my life with having my own goats, knowing that they are healthy, how I manage them and how I handle their milk, should I ever be blessed with needing to make a decision with what or how I would need to eat, I likely still would not pasteurize...simply because I've had nothing but raw goats milk in my life.


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## romanad (Sep 22, 2012)

This is very interesting. I've been looking into this for some time. I can understand both sides of this, but when we get our milk, we have decided to pasteurize. While reading about this I came across some very heated debates, but I think that is because it seems to be a very personal choice, and we all have our own reasons for doing it or not doing it.

I also have a question about this. I know it is illegal to sell or give away raw milk, but some of my neighbors want milk if we have extra, so if I pasteurize, can I give that to them, or would it be best to just keep it to myself? I don't want to get into any trouble, but I don't want to waste milk if we have more than we need. Can I make soap and give that away?

Anyway, back to your post, we choose to do it because I am a bit of a germaphobe. I think I read somewhere that people raised on it have some natural immunities to some of the things, but those who have never had raw milk before may be more likely to get something from it. I don't know if this is true or not, but none of us has ever had raw milk, except breast milk.

My grandmother was very sick as a baby, and a doctor told her family to buy her a goat (people didn't seem to breast feed back then so she had been on cow milk), and that goat saved her life. Now that was in 1929 and I have no idea if they pasteurized the milk. I do have her baby book, and they have ads for pasteurizers in it. Very interesting. I never thought to ask her about it when she was alive.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would have to look into your state laws. In Ohio, you have to have a Grade A dairy license to sell pasteurized milk to humans. Supposedly you can sell for pet use but the way the feds have been cracking down on dairy farms in Ohio, I wouldn't even bother doing that.

I can definitely understand why people chose to pasteurize but my preference is raw too.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Actually it's the smaller amounts, 1/2 gallon or so that are most easily done without any special equipment or investment. We simply heat up to 2 quarts in a three quart sauce pan till a thermometer reads 165deg, then set into a sink of ice water and stir gently until thermometer reads in the 40's. Pour up and place if fridge. Using a new-fangled induction electric range and the daily production of surplus ice from our fridge's icemaker the whole process takes less than 15 minutes.

Bob


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## romanad (Sep 22, 2012)

ksalvagno, yikes! I'll look up our laws but I'm thinking I will just keep it to myself and give them some nice soap. I hadn't thought of it but I'm guessing you would have to have a certified something or other here or else how would they know what people are doing in their own kitchen. It just sounds too risky.


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## Engebretsen (May 16, 2012)

Arkie said:


> Actually it's the smaller amounts, 1/2 gallon or so that are most easily done without any special equipment or investment. We simply heat up to 2 quarts in a three quart sauce pan till a thermometer reads 165deg, then set into a sink of ice water and stir gently until thermometer reads in the 40's. Pour up and place if fridge. Using a new-fangled induction electric range and the daily production of surplus ice from our fridge's icemaker the whole process takes less than 15 minutes.
> 
> Bob


Hi Bob, I don't think that the person who mentioned that they would pasteurize if the had more goats was suggesting that it's more difficult to pasteurize in small amounts. I think the logic there was that with just a couple of milkers, they were really able to manage the conditions of their goats and their milking operation to be able to trust their milk enough to not feel that pasteurization was necessary.

For my own part, I drink raw milk. I save time by not pasteurizing (even if it's just a little time)... a practice that I haven't found necessary. I didn't have an trouble with the transition from pasteurized cow milk to raw goat milk, and my husband who has a notoriously finicky belly and milk sensitivities to boot, has not had any difficulty with our girls' milk. We monitor the girls' health closely and have truly found benefits from drinking our goats' milk. I noticed that seasonal allergies really got the best of me when i didn't have milk for a few weeks, and then I was totally unaffected by allergies after having the raw milk again.

I don't think that people who pasteurize are making a mistake. There is a lot of very scary literature out there about the dangers of raw milk--but pasteurized milk has made many people sick as well, and many other foods that we continue to eat. After seeing so much contamination in things like cantaloupe and spinach, listeria from deli meats, etc, I've just decided that there is much less risk in a food that I know and have control over the production of in my own home than the majority of the foods that I bring into my home and I'll take my chances.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Engebretsen said:


> .


Well said.

For our family the benefits of what raw milk offers outweigh the risk.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I"ve always heard it has a yucky taste if you pausterize it.


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## Grannygoose (Sep 26, 2012)

To each his/her own! I prefer pasteurization, and feel after much research of several leading universities published scientific studies, that the milk is not nutritionally diminished through pasteurization of the raw milk. I feel we are getting the best of both worlds. We have fresh, great tasting, nutritious milk from a personally controlled environment. I do recognize each person has the right to choose their own method of milk handling, and would not presume to say my way is the only way.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm surprised to see so many people willing to admit that there's another side to the coin!  Good old TGS folks! I pasteurize because my dad wants me to. But I still find the following links interesting, and they appear reliable and scientific:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/milk_history.html
http://www.realmilk.com/testimonials.html
http://chriskresser.com/raw-milk-reality-is-raw-milk-dangerous

Even so, each year there are a few serious cases of poisoning (usualy E. Coli or Campylobacter) attributed to raw milk. This is why my dad wants me to paseurize.
Charts of the CDC's food poisoning reports are available online. I have read through them.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything except that people who choose to drink raw aren't total kooks!


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

For me as woodhaven, nancy and liz have said is pretty much my own feelings. People are always free to make their own choices, that's whats nice. I too have researched much from the same sites listed- raw milk etc. For us, it's just our family, no pregnancy or small kids and we are anal about being clean. We prefer raw.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I consider myself to be a militant raw milk drinker. And I have researched both sides. (I refuse to touch pasturized, especially *ultra-pasturized*, store milk.) But that is a totally different thing from pasturizing your own milk.
Still, I have drunk raw goat's milk since the 80's. Drank it when I was pregnant, gave it to my babies. My grandchildren drink it now. We have never had any illness related to the raw milk and I firmly believe we are as healthy as we are because of our homegrown food lifestyle.
I first switched from store bought pasturized cow's milk to store bought raw cow's milk. Then we decided we needed goats to provide our own source of dairy. One of the first things that went away were the pimples on my head that I have had since I was a teenager. The seasonal allergies are way less severe and disappear when I have a source of raw colostrum. The stomach problems that plagued members of my family for decades are gone. Yes, we are sold on raw milk and raw most everything else. (I have not gotten past the need to cook my meat until it is dead.)


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Since 1980:
Deaths from pasteurized milk: 400,000 (four hundred thousand)
Deaths from raw milk: 0 (zero)

Yearly that are sickened:
Pasteurized milk: 1,000 (one thousand)
Raw milk: 30 (thirty)

Now tell me which one is safer.
I drink my milk raw. Most of my milk customers give my raw milk to their newborn children and toddlers, and I prefer it that way. I like knowing that I'm helping these kids to grow up strong and healthy. I don't touch pasteurized milk.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I have had both raw and pasteurized milk from both goat and cow. I like raw more it has a better texture in my mouth and in my opinion a better flavor. As already stated pasteurization kills all the good flora and some of the vitamins. Pasteurizing kills the good bacteria that can fight off the bad that could introduce itself into the milk. In other words pasteurized milk is a blank slate for bacteria it is basically a dead food while raw is a living food. Raw milk can be left out to sour. It will turn itself into something like cheese and whey and is actually quite good to eat. However if pasteurized milk is left out it will rot and become inedible fairly quickly turning into a stinky putrid mess.

Back before there were regulations raw milk was a scarey thing. Cows and goat were milked openly into dirty containers in filthy conditions. The workers used to keep their feet warm by dipping them in the milk. Animals were given water tainted with sewage. Even farther back the dignitaries would sell the milk they used for baths to the peasants. Its no wonder people got sick. The only logical thing to do was pasteurize. 

However now a days we know better and know how to keep things clean. As long as the animal is healthy and the milk is milked into a clean container by clean teats I see no reason not to drink it raw. Any milk that gets a hoof in it or anything I use in soap. Otherwise it get strained and goes in the frig.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Since 1980:
> Deaths from pasteurized milk: 400,000 (four hundred thousand)
> Deaths from raw milk: 0 (zero)
> 
> ...


The numbers I have seen are quite different. I think what I saw was 0 deaths from milk (either raw or pasteurized), but there were 2 or 3 deaths from cheese - both raw and pasteurized. There have been several people in the past few years who nearly died from drinking raw milk - probably improperly handled or from less than healthy animals, but it _was_ raw milk.
Where did those numbers come from?
Was it an objective study? Did it come from a scientifically minded person/organization, or someone that believes and repeats everything that supports their agenda?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter what the numbers are. Depending on who did the study, I don't trust them anyway.

It all comes down to what YOU feel is best for YOU. None of the other stuff matters. If you prefer to pasteurize, then pasteurize. If you prefer raw, then drink it raw. Either way is fine when you are doing what is best for you.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

I have also done some research on raw milk verses pasteurized an I rember reading something about what the animals was fed. Milk cows that are on commerical milk farms are on a high grain diet. Over half of the food they consume on a daily bases is grain. The grain causes the acid in the cows stomach to be alot higher. That being said all animals have some stran of ecoli in them. Studies have shown that a cow on a high intake grain diet the ecoli in them can withstand higer levels of stomach acid. The studies show on a cow that has very little grain intake an is fed almost all forage grass/hay has lower levels of acid so the ecoli has a lower level of resistance to the stomach acid. Milk from a cow on the forage diet the ecoli in it cannot withstand the acid levels in human stomachs therefore we can kill it. We however can not kill the ecoli that comes from cows with mostly grain diets.
Thats just my 2 cents. An in the end its just what each person perfers.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

It is to each their own that is true. Working in medical in our area there was a case of e coli, but upon the health dept research it was due to the filth from the animals, to milking to drinking. We also have a friend that adopted an infant with all types of problems, it wasn't until they switched to raw goat milk from a licensed dairy that they started seeing improvements. Again, it is to each their own.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

JaLyn said:


> I"ve always heard it has a yucky taste if you pausterize it.


I like the taste of the commercial goat milk you can buy in any store. Clearly a lot of other people do too as it is sold everywhere.

Since one of my does is Nubian/Alpine/? this has been interesting. It is an issue that one day I will face so I am glad to hear what folks think. I personally would never drink unpasturized milk purchased from a grocery store as I think that would be risky. I even remember a huge recall of a producer of raw cows milk that made a lot of people ill and the fed's were threatening to make it illegal to sell raw milk period. A lot of people were upset and protesting. Can't remember the outcome, just the initial news stories

When it comes to a small family farm though, I think we should be allowed to share extra milk with friends. It is about time people take responsibility for their own decisions and not expect big brother to protect us from everything. I have a friend at church who has told me he would buy goat's milk and yogurt from me. He said this after learning I make my own yogurt (from store bought cows milk) and that one of my goats is a dairy breed (born last Feb). Him and his wife have also brought buckets of extra eggs for anyone to take who wants them. I happily took a bunch home. I have given away extra produce grown in my garden. None of this should be regulated since it is not a big commercial adventure. I recently heard (don't remember what state but on the east coast) of a man who grows food in his yard and allows folks to come and pick what they want and take it home to eat. He was arrested. He was trying to help hungry people, not charging anything, just giving it away and for that he was arrested. Turns out he was breaking the law. It is time Big Brother leaves us alone and lets us grow our own food and help those in need or who for whatever reason want what we have to offer, including raw goat milk.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter what the numbers are. Depending on who did the study, I don't trust them anyway.


Oh yeah, same here. I got my numbers from CDC. I'm sure they aren't totally unbiased, but IMO they're probably closer to the real numbers than anything else.
And it's possible that some of the cases blamed on raw milk weren't from the milk at all. Some doctors are very quick to blame raw milk for problems.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Well stated Texas.girl!:thumbup:

>>>And it's possible that some of the cases blamed on raw milk weren't from the milk at all. Some doctors are very quick to blame raw milk for problems.<<<
I know this to be true as it happened to me. I was providing milk for some sick kids. That would be goat kids. The woman's daughter got salmonella and when the doctor found out she had been bottle feeding baby goats with raw milk he just stated, "Well that's what caused it!" No tests or anything.
I lived in fear for months that the CDC was going to show up at my door.
There is no way it came from my farm or there would have been a bunch of sick people here.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> I know this to be true as it happened to me. I was providing milk for some sick kids. That would be goat kids. The woman's daughter got salmonella and when the doctor found out she had been bottle feeding baby goats with raw milk he just stated, "Well that's what caused it!" No tests or anything.


Now that is ridiculous. That's the story I was thinking of; I couldn't remember who had posted it.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

At my daughter's 2 year check up I hesitantly brought up we had goats which I milked. I was prepared to be jumped all over but believe in being 100% truthful with your dr. The pediatrician shocked my by saying "That's wonderful. There are so many health benefits." The only disease he mentioned was brucellosis (no salmonella, listeria or e.coli). I intend to test for this.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I meant to mention but forgot, back in the 80's I had a doctor who believed pasteurazation is the cause of a lot our health issues. He was an advocate of consuming only unpasteurazated milk. He believed a lot of the milk allergies and other issues were caused by pasteurazation. I found this doctor because he was on the radio once a week to answer questions and he was very vocal about this. This man subscribed and read lots and lots of medical journals and based on what he read started treating people for B12 deficencies and other vitamins/minerals, and they got better. My parents thought he was a crack, but now everything he did back in the 80's, lots of doctors are doing.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

drank our milk raw for a while, but then my mom realized we were doing that and dug out the old pasteurizer from when we were kids (dad did chores when a neighbor farmer was on vacation (2 weeks per year) in exchange for 2 gallons of milk a week year-round). It's one she bought used 40 years ago, so it is probably 60+ but it works great! -- not that I ever had an issue with the raw. 

Personally, I think the risk of unpasteurized is pretty small if you are talking milk from a small, well-kept backyard herd. I've yet to see a major recall on milk, but seems like every year there is one for some sort of fruit/vegetables -- no one talks about banning sales of those. Not usually a conspiracy theorist or anti-government, but it really strikes me that so many of the ag laws seem designed to favor (and/or control) the large agribusinesses in a way that really hurts the smaller operations. Can't sell raw milk (even with full disclosure to buyers) and can't even sell home-pasteurized (or cheese which is essentially pasteurized by most processes). But the commercial dairies won't buy from small operations. 'Shares' seems a silly way to skirt the law -- nothing more than a loophole to sell milk really (though perhaps it differs in having a consistent customer) -- but what options do you have?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I dont pasturise. WHY you ask?

Simple. 

1. Its one less thing I have to do when I already work full time an hour and a half commute away from home. I milk straight into our milk bottle and put it straight into the fridge. Dont even bother straining if its just for us at home. I strain it if its for someone else. The milk bottle has a narrow opening and the teat sits in it so it doesnt get hair and stuff in it. 

2. I dont like the taste of pasturised goats milk, I'm very sensitive to that goaty taste and TO ME pasturised tastes goaty

3. I have been drinking raw cows milk all my life and hasnt killed me yet


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have not gone into the drinking goat milk YET. I always want my freezer full for 'just in case' for any baby animal that needs milk. But I would like to, I would drink it raw, no prob, for my kids I would pasturise. I am not a clean freak, when I get mud on my hands I dont run to the soap, and I too have been on raw cows milk as a kid till we lost our Honey cow . Because of school my kids flip if they get dirty (drives me crazy). My daughter has also been on anti. for the first 3 years of her life, since she has been off it seem she gets sick all the time. I just feel like they have not been exposed to the things that I did growing up. And I live in California, heck for all i know if I give them raw milk it might be a form of child abuse lol, jking (I hope)


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## Pronking Publius (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm sure this is a touchy subject, and while I'm in no way an expert, I would surmise that pasteurization started in large part for liabilities sake for bigger companies. It would seem to me that there would be less reason to pasteurize milk f you only have a few well cared for animals that you are using for personal consumption.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

You also have to remember that pasteurization became almost necessary when dairy farms transformed from the backyard milk cow to massive, cramped complexes. When society began to industrialize, the same thing happened to the dairy industry to mass produce milk. The result was very unsanitary collection of milk, animals were kept in filthy conditions, which contaminated milk. If you've read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair, it can give you an idea of how there were no regulations for hygiene in the food industry. So the practice is outdated, because now even milk what is pasteurized must be collected with proper, clean procedure.

In many European countries, the sales of raw milk and products made from raw milk is allowed. Considering how _strict_ the European Union is with many of their laws and regulations, the products are safe. Of course, there are laws about the sanitary collection of milk, and frequent testing, but it can still be sold.


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