# Dog and Goats Ugh......



## FaRmEr FrEaK (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok so I have a German Shepherd Puppy (6 1/2 months old) and I can not get him to leave the goats alone he paces back and forth by the goat pen trying to get to them then he barks and if they are close enough to the fence to tries to bite them, He already bit one of my goats (luckily it barely got him) but I dont want it to get any worse someone please help this is getting pathetic


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You are going to have to work with him. Does he get enough exercise besides running the goat fence? I would get out with him and play with him and work on training him and wear him out.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Judicious use of a shock collar.

Bob


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh wow, I'd be very worried. That is not acceptible behavior at all. I am not a dog smart know it all on training lol so I don't know the best actions to take, but he's young so I'd start right away if it were me.
I know there are some dog saavy people here, maybe they can give you training ideas. I would google it as well and see what you can find, maybe check youtube for training tips.


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## SueDaw (Oct 16, 2012)

we bought a swim noodle cut it in half and when Shelby got out of line we whacked her with it. Its foam so it dosent hurt but it pops and scares the bajeasus out of them. My sister saw how it worked with my dog and she took my back-up half.


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

German Shepard dogs are meant to heard animals like goats and sheep. He may have a strong instinct to chase, which is normal for them.

I have a miniature schnauzer and a german wirehaired pointer who I've trained to intermingle with my ducks and chickens and will sit and stay in the middle of the flock. And these are two strong hunting breeds, its tough but not impossible to break.

(I know this may sound kind of harsh). If you're outside and he starts just looking at the goat pen, give him a correction; whether it be throwing a bag of coins near him, using a spray bottle, a quick poke with the hand or a beep and static correction frm a collar... make sure you don't even let him look over there. Correct him every time you see him even THINKING about going over there, or even thinking about LOOKING over there.

The key with intense dogs like this is to correct their behavior before it gets bad or out of control, and hard to correct. If you're consistent with this your dog will know that it is not acceptable to focus on the goats as prey or something to herd, and eventually will avoid being near the goats (associating the goats with a correction)

Another idea:
Rub a goat down with an old rag or blanket and put it in his crate or bed and let him get familiar with the smell so it's not such a curiosity anymore.

Good luck and stay consistent!


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## xKelx (Oct 13, 2012)

My 6yo boxer does the same thing your shepherd pup is doing. We are constantly correcting him but I can tell this is going to be a very slow process!


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## Foottapper (Sep 19, 2012)

....Do as ARKIE says "Use a shock collar". And every time he go,s near the fence Zap him...


"Foot..


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## GoatsLive (Jul 1, 2012)

We have 2 does. One of them will completely ignore the dogs and the other will go after them whenever she can. Only thing I can really do is keep them apart, though they do sometimes run in the yard at the same time.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

rssgnl27 has some very good advice!
Our dogs used to chase chickens and goats (killed some chickens, too) and never do anymore (except at kidding season - there's something irresistible about those little bouncing kiddos, so I don't allow them with the little kids).

Four pointers that have worked with our dogs. (One is half husky, so has that strong hunting instinct!)
1. Make sure the dog gets enough to eat. (Obvious, I know.)
2. Make sure the dog isn't bored. Consider getting another dog for him to play with (not sure this would work in all situations). Our dogs know they are allowed to chase rats, they play together a lot, and they are allowed the run of the property. So they have plenty to do.
3. Get the dog used to the smell and actions of the animals. Curiosity may start a chase, which triggers the hunting instinct.
4. What rssgnl27 said: Correct the dog every time it thinks about chasing the animals!

Dogs are smart. They can get the message pretty fast. I noticed that once our dogs hit about 2 years old, they were a lot steadier and more self-controlled, hence easier to teach.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Years ago we had one of those once-n-a-lifetime family dogs, a Rotwieller named "Bart". We own 2.5 acres, our closest neighbor owns 2.5 SECTIONS of land (cattle farm). For whatever reason they decided to put their garden right on our property line. Bart took exception to them being that close, making noise, driving cars, tractors, etc. and put them back in the car/on the tractor a few times so they came to talk to me. I borrowed a customers shock collar, put it on the dog and left. A bit later I went to the neighbors home and rode to the garden with her. Sure enough when she pulled up and got out here came Bart like gangbusters. I zapped him and he hollered, slowed down, zapped him again and he did a 360. When he was on the OTHER side of our house he barked, I zapped him again. Neighbors had their garden there for rest of the dogs life. *NEVER A PROBLEM!!

*They would have justifiably killed him had I not fixed the problem.
Bob


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

rssgnl27 is right on the money. as well as other who mentioned being sure he gets other exercise. Last resort a shock collar and if you can sit where he doesn't realize you are doing it he doesn't think oh she's not here now I can pester them. 
Herding dogs will 'herd' some breeds do give little nips, I had Bouvier's and they didn't nip they would actually use their shoulder to give a little "bump"- I had put my horses out only to see them back in their corral until I realized one of my girls was herding them back in!


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## Foottapper (Sep 19, 2012)

..We have 5 large dogs of all breeds and they dont even notice the goats or cattle.

..Foot..


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## FaRmEr FrEaK (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks Everyone I am definitely going to try what you suggested


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

Before you buy a shock collar and start zapping away, please do a little research. If the dog and the goats are important to you, there is a right way to do this and a wrong way.

I train dogs professionally, have two German Shepherds, and specialize in E Collar training (what dog trainers call shock collars).

Straight to the point, check out Lou Castle's website on E Collar Training, read his "crittering protocoll", and buy a Dogtra brand E Collar. If you follow his instructions carefully & use a decent collar, you can transform your dog into a solid citizen.

I can also give you step by step instructions for how to deal with this properly. Using very high levels of stim (shock) on an unsuspecting and otherwise untrained dog can cause major pyschological and behavioral problems (especially on a puppy) and you can wind up with a way bigger mess than you originally had. E Collars can be used in a very humane and effective manner if you spring for one of the nicer units and learn how to use it.

Good luck to you, and invest in a muzzle so that you can train inside the pasture safely when you reach that point. These dogs can absolutely be made reliable- I have one who once was an epic goat chaser but now can walk calmly among even the babies. Some dogs will never give up the desire to kill, no matter how many hours of training you do. Then you have to decide whether to rehome the dog or manage it safely on your farm. Both can be done. Good luck, please let me know if I can help


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm new to goats, but I keep my dogs separate. Not because of my dogs, but because of my goats! My larger (Nigerian Dwarf) is only slightly bigger than my cattle dog... but she does NOT like dogs - rams them whenever she can. My smaller goat is afraid of the dogs (which might be why the larger goat is aggressive to them, protective??). Kind of a bummer as the dogs no longer have a YARD most of the time, since they can't be with the chickens either (which wasn't a problem for years... but definitely IS now) ... but oh well. My dogs are old - they don't run much anyway.


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

I also keep my dogs separate from the goats. 

It wasn't the original plan, as in my mind we were one big happy family, frolicking in the yard...but the dogs had different ideas. 
I use Invisible Fence to keep my dogs on the property. 
I had the perimeter of the invisible fencing go around the goat area, because my dogs were pulling at the fencing of the goat pen with their teeth and trying to dig underneath. 
Now they can only get within ten feet of the pen, and life here is so much more peaceful.

I really envy the ones whose dogs and goat are able to get along.
Hopefully you will be one of them!


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## Kathy81 (Oct 16, 2012)

When I bought my buckling , I no where to put him except the kennel with my husky/malamute . She babied him and now he is in his own pen with 2 other goat buddies . She likes to visit my buck ( sammy) but it scares the 2 other boys so I put the boys with the does so they can play ( she looks at him , he looks at her then rears up and try's to head butt her from like 10 feet away, lol) it's great entertainment.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Well , with some dogs , it's just so instinctive that you may never be able to trust them completely.
With the shock collar , you don't want them to know that correction is coming from you. It is coming from the powers that be basically.
If you do decide to use a collar , please have the dog contained or on a long line becuas once a dog experiences a shock for the first time , they tend to bolt and if your dog isn't contained , you may have a hard time getting him back. Or , if thy associate the shock coming from you , they will run from you and no matter how well your recall was , that's just it, it WAS.
Rubbing the goat with a towel then correcting the dog when he goes near it is a great idea. But work with the rag outside in all areas where the goats browse or are loose. Use a command like "leave it" when giving the correction simultaneously .
Once your dog works well with that exercise , you might want to tie a rope to the towel and move it slowly at first along the ground and if he does even look at it , give the correction immediately .
Remember dogs have a very short span of attention when giving the correction or the praise/treat. So do make sure you are timely in giving these or your work will be meaningless.
If your dog will tolerate the rag moving along the ground and not chase it , your doing great. If hedges chase it , it could just be its way too enticing for him and that is something you may not be able to change give the fact it is so instinctual in the breed. Cherish this instead of regretting it. Your dog is true to its breed 
You may just need to tie the dog while out with the goats , ducks ect...
If your goats tend to run around all of a sudden like mine do , lol , this is sometimes just too much for a dog to take lying down....
I totally feel your pain though, I have a Border Collie that isn't trustworthy with my chickens . Already killed two , it's just that his prey instinct is very strong. I have five or BCs and their prey drive isn't at strong but their herding instincts is extremely strong. They will never hurt the chickens , but they will herd them ,along with the goats.
But the one BC that will hurt the chickens will also sometimes try to mouth the goats neck or legs. Just can't trust him.
Good luck with your training


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## Taz's Arc (Aug 27, 2010)

My poor German Shepard (GS) is quite aware that my pygmy doe is the queen of the yard. When I first got her as a puppy I threw her in with the goats and that's where she is every day while I"m at work. Some she pesters, some pester her and one they chase each other around and sleep near each other. Recently a new addition (year ago) to the heard was 'skittish' and it did take some time for him to settle as his mannerism attracted unwanted attention by the dog...It did take some monitoring by myself with verbal correction "not a chew toy", (GS has toys in the yard she's allowed to play with)...that and the goat calming down seems to of corrected the issue.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Well , with some dogs , it's just so instinctive that you may never be able to trust them completely.


I can see that. I don't think I'll ever 100% trust our husky/lab cross. He doesn't bother the goats or the chickens anymore, but he still now and then shows interest that makes me nervous. I check on them frequently when they are together, and they are separated at night.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I puppysit huskies and their predator drive is STRONG. They've dug up and killed birds and moles. Crazy pups.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Before you buy a shock collar and start zapping away, please do a little research. If the dog and the goats are important to you, there is a right way to do this and a wrong way.
> 
> I train dogs professionally, have two German Shepherds, and specialize in E Collar training (what dog trainers call shock collars).
> 
> ...


Some dogs cannot be trained with an "E" collar no matter what. They either shut down or become more aggressive . Not something you want.
Some dogs can also become physically and emotionally scarred from them.
Its a choice you have to make . A "E" collar , electric collar which provides a shock can also stop a dogs heart if it has a medical problem. 
Not a training option to take without proper education on it.
I have a neighbor who decided to put one on their mini Husky because of its barking. The store gladly sold him the collar and a uneducated kid told him to just put it on their dog and set it up high and push the button whenever the dog does something unwanted. AWESOME !
The owner , who wouldnt listen to my husband who is a retired K9 officer, accomplished Schutzhund trainer , GSD breeder for ever 30 years, 
that you cant use the invisible fence and the shock collar without proper training for the owner and the dog....well , he lost his dog that day.
The dog didnt understand the invisible fence ( not the brand name product , a cheaper knockoff ) and was completely freaked out , the owner kept pushing the button on the "E" collar and the dog bolted into the house "through" a plate glass window of their home , trying to get away from the pain and the fright ,
all along the owner pushing the button thinking the dog should just understand what to do to avoid the correction it was getting. Well the dog went out the screen door at the front of the house , got into the street , and hit dead by a car. Bottom line is the dog needs to completely understand what exactly you want from it , it has to be crystal clear. If the dog can't avoid the correction , whatever it may be , its inhumane to keep correcting the dog.

Some dogs can become aggressive when using shock collars on them.
This is something you dont want because it can cause redirected aggression.

All Im saying is please follow the directions of a knowledgable person when looking to use "E" collars and "prong" collars. 
Thecowboysgirl will explain the dos and donts when using the collars.
Thank you Thecowboysgirl for offering your assistance.
One thing I hate is misuse of training tools on dogs !
And I hate to see someone unknowingly use them and lose their beloved dog.
Kudos to you


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> I puppysit huskies and their predator drive is STRONG. They've dug up and killed birds and moles. Crazy pups.


 I have a Husky/Basset mix, he has such a strong prey drive, he will never be trusted around the goats...he's short, but strong. 
My Chihuahu mix just wants to chase and yap, my Rottie mix is a sweet girl, I think she just wants to play with the goats, but I'm not taking any chances.


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## Engebretsen (May 16, 2012)

After having read through this, I do see some good advice on what to do if the dog misbehaves. What I see missing, though, is the reward for the dog on what happens when he does what he's supposed to. Suppose the dog looks a the goats and then redirects immediately to the owner--TREAT, praise, play...whatever floats that dog's boat! If bad things happen anytime goats are around (shock, correction, etc), that dog will either avoid goats because he's scared of them, or he will hate them and as mentioned previously, could become more aggressive. Positive reinforcement can go a long way in correcting a dog problem. Have practice training sessions near the goat pen where the dog can be productive and get rewarded for it. Practice the leave it and practice "watch me." When the dog is no longer trying to go through the fence at the goats, and reliably refocuses away from them, practice taking the dog in with the goats with the dog on the lead and while the goats are busy eating or something so that you have room to work with the dog (assuming the eventual goal is to be able to have the dog with you as you do your goaty chores). Gradually, if the dog and the goats are comfortable, work them in closer and closer proximity. Don't forget that you can have someone rewarding the goats for good manners while you're working with the puppy too, because chances are that their natural fear of dogs coupled with your dog's bad behavior thus far have left them fairly distrustful and scared of canines.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

In regards to your post , I completely agree with positive reinforcement .
Not mentioning it doesn't mean it isn't suggested. I have taken for granted the OP was understanding when to give praise/ reward.

Some dogs as mentioned can become more aggressive when a collar is used. That's why is so important to use it correctly and make sur eshe dog knows how to avoid that correction.
The dog wouldn't see the goats as bad ,just his behavior towards the goats. In training or retraining specific issues , it's extremely important to break down the problems into "parts" for lack of a better word and work on them separately and not move on until the dog is understanding of them. When done correctly , the dog understands its boundaries whatever they may be.
If the dogs prey drive is so strong , no amount of positive praise is going to change his mind otherwise. It's innate in them. You will have to use another method with consequence . But with the collar , the correction isn't coming from you , it's coming from the negative action the dog is performing. I would rather not use these methods , but sometimes you have to for the sake of others and or animals.


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

Good points, Engebretsen and Trickyroo.

You're right Trickyroo, I DO use positive reinforcement with my dogs, in regard to the goats.
I will sit with my dogs outside the goat pen, treating and praising when they don't act aggressively toward the goats.

My dogs try to kill anything that ventures on our property, so I will never, ever trust them with my goats...no matter how "nicely" they behave.
Dog and goats play so differently, even with good training, bad things can happen in a split second!
I'm not saying no dogs can ever be trusted with goats, I just know mine can't.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

We want to trust them , its our nature.
But can you one hundred percent trust your dog that you have trained with positive re enforcement not to run off after your goats , chickens etc..when they decide to run , jump , flap their wings ? 
No...not really. 
With use of the collar the dog understands the consequence and will most likely obide by it...but , some dogs decide that the punishment isnt so bad and will "bite the bullet" and still go after the prey.
But there is a higher percentage of dogs that will stay in their down or place or what have you then to blow past the barrier.

Trained police dogs need to be relied one hundred percent.
The officer needs to know he put his dog on a down and he will hold it until summoned. ( lolol ) Even if the neighbors cat walks by ...

Some dogs pass this type of training with flying colors , others not so much...all dogs are individuals.


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## geonjenn (Oct 3, 2012)

rssgnl27 said:


> I have a miniature schnauzer and a german wirehaired pointer who I've trained to intermingle with my ducks and chickens and will sit and stay in the middle of the flock. And these are two strong hunting breeds, its tough but not impossible to break.


This amazes me. I had a German Wirehaired Pointer for 13 years and she was an expert escape artist and would kill every animal she could get to (cats, rabbits, chickens, birds). The only animals she liked were dogs and humans. Loved her, but we had to be so careful to keep her contained and out of trouble.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

People are bringing up some really important pieces of the puzzle- reward is extremely important. Punishment can suppress one behavior, but if nothing else is taught instead, that behavior is very likely to pop back up.

Someone mentioned that there are dogs that have such a high prey drive they will never leave goats alone for reward only and this is absolutely true, I have one. I have worked with him for years and he still wears a muzzle if there is not a fence between him and the livestock and he always will. No matter how much training I ever do, if this dog sees an opportunity he will take it. Dogs are predators, it's a perfectly natural thing for them to do and it is very important we don't romanticize them.

In my experience, the best way to deal with this problem is with an E Collar and lots of praise for ignoring livestock. I mentioned before that there is a good article on how to do this on Lou Castle's website (if you google him you should get it). It's a good explanation of one method of E Collar training but he doesn't say too much about reward.

In order to change a dog's behavior you must teach him what you DO want him to do in a way that he can understand. The simplest method is to simply feed him the instant he gives you a desired behavior. Have a bag full of diced hot dog and if he looks at the goat, say no- and when he looks at you, feed him. This can progress to being put on a long line, reward for looking away from prey, coming when called from prey (This may allow you to call him off in the event of an attack), reward him for restraining himself and not running at the fence ect.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Aug 28, 2012)

*E Collar hazards*

Trickyroo- you're right, E Collars can be enormously destructive. There is a BIG difference between the collars you can buy at the petstore (Petsafe) and the collars you order from a dealer like Dogtra or Tritronics. Cheap collars have 6-10 levels of correction. Dogtras have 127. For reference, I can't feel a Dogtra #10 on the inside of my wrist. I believe 14 is about the number that I can start to feel and it does not feel painful at that point.

A #1 on some collars would be a 30 or a 40 on a Dogtra. I just finished training a very soft little lab on the E Collar and in all that time I never went as high as a 30 and the vast majority of her work was on #15 which was her "working level". (and let me tell you, 30-40 on Dogtra is painful, no doubt)

What we are able to do with the a Dogtra (or Tritronics although I've never used one, I love the Dogtras too much)- is find a sensation that the dog can feel but it is not painful and frightening it is just unknown. Then, we use a leash and long line to explain to the dog that they should yield to that pressure like they do a leash. It becomes an invisible leash that we can use to reinforce a command at distance. The dog learns that he has the power to turn off the stim by complying with what was asked of him (which is always trained prior with positive reinforcement only)

Invisible fence collars use a very high level painful shock, they do traumatize dogs, they do cause dogs to become aggressive. Imagine the neighborhood kids walk up to a dog in an invisible fence and call him over to pet him. Sweet dog jumps up and tries to go see kids and gets zapped. It that scenario it is very easy for the dog to develop an association between children and pain--if you buy a shock collar from the petstore you run a very high risk of damaging your dog.

With the Dogtras, once the dog is "Collar literate" meaning he knows that he can turn it off and how, occasionally it will be necessary to give him a real correction by turning the dial up- that lab had a very dangerous habit of bolting when offleash, and we were able to put a stop to it with one correction where we didn't have to go over #25 which is still lower and than lowest setting on any of those other collars. As a result, this dog is not reliable offleash and is able to hiking with her owner offleash every day, and have the freedom she always wanted. She is a VERY happy dog

Also I know people have posted on here that they did buy the times of collars I am advising against and use them- and please understand that I am not judging anybody or condemning anybody.

But I will reiterate- if anyone is planning to try E Collar training at home please feel free to PM me for my email address and I can walk you through it


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

If I could hit like a thoughsand times more I would 
The types of collars you suggested are the only ones my husband reccomends. But we would ONLY use a collar if the situation hasn't improved with continuous training. 
These situations are very few , but there are those hard cases as we both know. I have personally never used one on my dogs.
Before I met my husband I would never have even thought about one.
I am a person who believes in positive re enforcement.
Most my dogs have had a leash correction in their lives and darn well know why they got one , that's all it takes , one.
If its timed right , it came from God above. Thats what you want.

Cases where the dog has resorted to biting the rear ends of the kids as hey run by , or threatening the grandma coming down the stairs with her cane.....those may require a collar if leash corrections and consistent training does t work . I would never suggest to break out a collar to 
" train" a dog not to jump up on the couch or counters...
That's just behaviors that can be easily trained with repetitive timely corrections and training. 

This is a 6 1/2 month old pup that shouldn't require a collar to be trained.
Just a enormous amount of time and of course , consistent training.
But if the dog does show aggressive behavior , there is a chance that the dog canbe drive to deeper aggression by the collar and of course redirected aggression towards the owner , etc....
This is a behavioral issue most likely stemming from the parents.
Genetics.
but it can be addressed . I wouldn't put the dog in the presence of the goats or whatever animal it is having issues with until it's a bit older ,
saya year old. I would be working on the basics ,get the dogs attention on you and only you , focus. Serious consistent training.
Then , once the dog is over a year , and still has the issues , work with collar..vibration can do wonders whengivenat the right time.
But sometimes people need the behavior to cease immediately or else the consequences could be worse then the collar.

Then all you can do is offer the correct ways to take th training a step above and be there for them.

I am so glad you have come back to the post and I a looking forward to checking out your site , thank you 

Laura






I'm not even sure what the heck the conversation is about here
anymore , lolol.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Investing in the training of the dog requires about time each day. You are not got stop the behavior with just few jolts from an e-collar. Reward desired behavior. Instantly punish undesirable. The dog is 6 months, if you have not been "play" training with it all ready, it may not understand how to learn. You need to read up, someone mentioned some websites earlier. Also, understand how to train and your goals for training.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Bob Bailey comes to mind...


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

Probably not much help on the training end - but thought I'd share our experiences with dogs and other animals. If I have one piece of advice to offer that isn't covered above, it is that you need to train BOTH animals, not just the dogs. 

My dogs are on invisible fence (brand name) - love it as it lets them have the run of the property (front two acres, not the pasture and garden) without me worrying about the road. It did take a lot of training up front -- not just set it up and forget it. Marked the boundary with flags first so they could see the line -- years later I can still mark anything with one of those flags and they will leave it alone!

Had a lot of issues with the dogs chasing/killing stray cats, but never any issues with the house cat that pre-dated them. When we got new cats, we spent a lot of time training the dogs to accept them as family - months of 'supervised only' time together. Now the dogs may chase our cats across the yard (never in the house), but if they catch them, they just slobber on them -- and they don't chase if the cat doesn't run (one cat hates being slobbered and so runs for the nearest tree every time - usually makes it). They still chase strays away.

First batch of chickens we had the dogs killed one -- chickens flew every attempt I made to raise the fence -- and the 'poultry yard' was too big to cover. Of course a favorite, so major upset. Dogs figured out we were upset and seemed to get the point. Now that they see us handling the chickens every day (and we raise the chicks in a small pen in the yard where they can see them and the chickens learn to accept the dogs young so they don't run away) dogs sometimes wander over and sniff a chicken, but they don't attack or chase (I think it helps a lot that the chickens don't run and that, because we handle them, the chickens smell like us). Our chickens are in the coop at night but those that can fly the fence free range as they please all day. They have the fenced poultry yard as a refuge (they can fly in, but the dogs can't get in) and the dogs keep any other small predators away. Was very worried when the peacock first escaped and was free-ranging the yard (safely back in his pen now) but he threw his tail up at the dogs just once and they decided to leave him alone. Training the dogs to leave alone the neighbors guinea fowl that wander into our yard has been much more difficult -- as the guinea fowl are both noisy (which attracts the dogs attention) and run from the dogs. With all the other animals we have, I can now get the dogs to break off a chase with a verbal command when I witness it (probably helps that our 'pack leader' is getting arthritic - never had much luck calling her off when she was younger) -- but I have had two dead guinea fowl turn up on my lawn (both there in the morning, so I can't say for sure whether my dogs killed them or whether they just found them dead and dragged them up to the house - dogs were in all night and I never heard a commotion).

Dogs have always totally ignored the goats/sheep/alpacas when they are in their pen. When we have the goats out on a lead for training, the dogs may come over for a sniff, but that's it. Don't let the dogs out if the alpacas are out for training as they really dislike the dogs and it makes training impossible (no one hurting the others, but the alpacas won't pay attention to training). Escaped goats, the dogs bark -- which I find a good thing. Dora (youngest and highest strung of the dogs) does try to go up to the goats to play and sometimes when they are out - nips if they turn their backs. The goats don't run from the dogs (so don't trigger the chase instinct) and the regular escape artists have learned to not turn their backs. Goat kids get played with a lot by the human kids -- so they have people scent all over them -- which I also think helps the dogs to recognize them as 'family'. We also do supervised introductions - with any new animals brought to the farm.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I respect your advice to train all animals involved , but training a herd of goats maybe a tall order , IMHO.
Possible , for sure , but time consuming , enormous .

Training flight animals can be fry difficult .
I have trained my horse to try to flee at every drop of a hat , but if she were loose on her own in a paddock , she would most definitely flee from the truck backfiring if I not there to remind her of our training.
Same with the goats , they are going to be goats , jumping , running , dong what they do best , raising the roof , lolol.

If some people have to the time to train the chaser and the chased , that is great . But the ones that don't , need to have the aggressor under control for the obvious reasons.

Such a great , great post !


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## rssgnl27 (May 9, 2012)

geonjenn said:


> This amazes me. I had a German Wirehaired Pointer for 13 years and she was an expert escape artist and would kill every animal she could get to (cats, rabbits, chickens, birds). The only animals she liked were dogs and humans. Loved her, but we had to be so careful to keep her contained and out of trouble.


Geonjenn-

She had an extremely high prey drive when she was younger. Took me quite a few months to break her of the habit; but I nipped it in the bud as soon as I saw her begin to run twords the chickens. Never had to use an E collar on her- she wanted to please so much that when I yelled at her, she felt so bad, and when I praised her when she returned to me it seemed like she was the happiest dog in the world. Although shes a pleaser... my mini schnauzer needed a little stronger correction as she wasn't as into my praise as the wirehair was.

All dogs are different like many are saying- you just have to figure them out and you may never be able to trust them completely, but be patient and consistent regardless


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

Your dog is exhibiting excellent GSD instinct and great intensity. Learn to use it. Most don't have any left. Watch video's of Ulf Kintzel's excellent GSD's at work. Youtube search him at whitecloversheepfarm channel.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

thestockdogcompany said:


> Your dog is exhibiting excellent GSD instinct and great intensity. Learn to use it. Most don't have any left. Watch video's of Ulf Kintzel's excellent GSD's at work. Youtube search him at whitecloversheepfarm channel.


Hi , curious how you know of Ulf. My husband is very good friends with him.
We are actually getting a couple of lambs from him in the coming weeks.
Ulf is a awesome trainer and shepherd. Amazing dogs as well.


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## Chert (Jun 18, 2013)

I wouldn't recommend the use of an ecollar for those whom have little or no experience with them. Reading articles and getting advise off the internet is not a subsitute for having hands on lessons from someone experienced with any dog training tool. 

I would suggest to the OP that you get in touch with a reputable dog trainer (Not at Petsmart) and begin obedience training your dog. Basic obedience is the foundation for training a dog what is expected of them and it will make teaching/training your dog desirable behaviors much easier. If you allow your pup to learn these undesirable habbits now, it will be a lot more working correcting them in the future.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

The easiest way to stop him is with a BB gun. one that pumps. 1 pump for less then 20 feet, 2 pumps for less the 50 and 3 or 4 pumps beyond that. Practice your name first. Dont wanna shot an eye out  But once the dog associates pain with the goats, he will stop. Only took 3 shots before our new min pin was done chasing that goats and all live happy side by side now when we let the dogs out in the pasture. In face they kinda scare him now so he doesnt like them to get to close and will trot away. It may take a couple of tries on different days but it will work. Try not to let him know its coming from you. The more he thinks the goats did with some awesome ninja power, the better


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

i absolutely agree with the shock collar. we used them on our labs and they now just ignore the goats.


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## olfart (Mar 7, 2013)

The German Shepherd breed is, in general, highly intelligent and eager to please. At 6 months old a German Shepherd should be in a good obedience training class WITH the owner. Dogs are pack animals, and they consider their humans as part of the pack. Every pack needs an alpha, a leader. You must be that leader. Without strong leadership from you, the German Shepherd will become the leader, meaning he will train you.


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