# Is Guardian Needed if Goats Have Mini Barn?



## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi all, very new at this and feeling rather torn over whether a guardian animal (dog/llama/donkey) is needed to protect a few goats that will be kept within a 4' high-tensile woven wire fenced area with a coyote roller added on top. The enclosed barnyard will have a 10X16 mini barn where goats will be locked in from dusk to dawn (with plenty of ventilation of course!). Upstate NY area - potential predators are coyote, foxes, and bobcats. Thank you for any thoughts - just want them to be safe and protected.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would think they should be fine.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would say that a 4’ fence is hardly even good enough for the goats let alone predators. I would do 6’.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Higher fence or get a guardian.


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

They will be pygmy goats - is a 4' fence high enough to keep them in?


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> I would think they should be fine.


Thank you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Some predators can jump into their area.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

It would depend on how many predators you have and when you seel them. I keep my herd in a 6' fence - standard nubians, and lock them in at night. I had a couple of coyotes during the day though....... so not without problems


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Got it, ok - more food for thoughts. Thanks folks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My fence is 4' woven wire no climb. I lock my goats up at night. While I have foxes and coyotes and neighbor dogs, nothing has gone in my pasture area. It really depends on how aggressive the predators are.


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> My fence is 4' woven wire no climb. I lock my goats up at night. While I have foxes and coyotes and neighbor dogs, nothing has gone in my pasture area. It really depends on how aggressive the predators are.


That's good to hear. We have security cams so if for some reason we see anything we don't like lurking around day or night, we can add another wire or two on top of the fence. We'll also be putting up a coyote roller, motion detector lights, radio that stays on at night, etc. to help keep things away. Fencing 400+ feet with high-tensile woven wire is so expensive at just 4 feet high, and out of budget for 6 feet high!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I have a 4 ft fence. Just added a solar powered electric fence charger. Put the hot wire 6 inches above the fence. Its a Parmak. I love it. It bites hard. Nothing gets over it. They touch it once & scream. Hey it bit me so hard my teeth hurt
So I really really like it. And its solar...no other charges!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I have four foot woven wire and my goats do not get out. I have kinders which are half pygmy. I do have two giant livestock guardian dogs though, so I can't speak to predator control.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

4’ works for me :shrug: but I do agree it depends on what predators and now aggressive they are on if you need a guard animal or not. I just have fairly timid coyotes that don’t like anything that looks like a trap so they respect the fence. The neighbors have learned that we have a zero tolerance for stray dogs when it comes to our livestock but I do have a strand of hot fence along the bottom just in case a dog does end up getting out on us. 
But if neighbor dogs are a issue for you I would probably consider a guard animal. They can actually cause more destruction then a wild animal since they kill for the fun of it not out of hunger like wild animals do


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## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

I have a 4 foot fence too. It has barbed wire on the inside of two woven wire sides and a wooden fence on the other two sides with the non barbed fence diving the bucks from the girls. I do wish it was buried into the ground though. Must be very proactive about covering up any holes that things could get in. We have predators pretty bad, but have only lost goats to dogs in the neighborhood who have dug under. The other predators usually go for the chickens and leave the goats alone. We have had run ins with bobcats, coyotes, foxes, and a bunch of smaller things like raccoons, I swear I saw a panther too, but no one believes me lol. We have cage traps set by the chickens. We have a spotlight that is motion censored by the house that faces the goat pasture, but isn’t in it. Ever sense we were helping to breed a girl’s goat and it got killed by what we think was dogs (very traumatic finding someone else’s goat dead on your property and having to tell them), we have kept bells on two of our goats. One bell on the wether in the buck pen. One on a doe in the pen with everyone else. This supposedly helps to scare predators because it makes noises when they run. Our dogs have also become very helpful. We have Brittanies. They aren’t livestock dogs, but letting them over to the goat pasture when they start barking has definitely saved us from a few dead animals, as they chase stuff away.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

I have a 4 feet fence as well keeps the goat in and offer adequate protection. Have you considered electric fencing zaps the goats going out and zaps what is trying to get in. Leave no space as goats and predators can go out and come in. The major predator in my area is the dogs. ( They decimated my entire chicken and rabbit population)

My dog ( though not a guardian) with her bark she scares things away and alerts us to intruders.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

We have 4’ fence with hot wire on top and it works fine to keep goats in. Locking up at night will definitely help with predator pressure. Just make sure your fencing keeps stray dogs out.


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Thank you!! Very helpful.


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> I have a 4 ft fence. Just added a solar powered electric fence charger. Put the hot wire 6 inches above the fence. Its a Parmak. I love it. It bites hard. Nothing gets over it. They touch it once & scream. Hey it bit me so hard my teeth hurt
> So I really really like it. And its solar...no other charges!


Interesting, definitely more inclined to go solar than the full electric wiring route so that's helpful to know. Thank you for the rec!


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Jessica84 said:


> 4' works for me :shrug: but I do agree it depends on what predators and now aggressive they are on if you need a guard animal or not. I just have fairly timid coyotes that don't like anything that looks like a trap so they respect the fence. The neighbors have learned that we have a zero tolerance for stray dogs when it comes to our livestock but I do have a strand of hot fence along the bottom just in case a dog does end up getting out on us.
> But if neighbor dogs are a issue for you I would probably consider a guard animal. They can actually cause more destruction then a wild animal since they kill for the fun of it not out of hunger like wild animals do


Great points to think about, thank you. We've never actually seen coyotes in the past, just hear them down the road (and the opposite side) way back in the woods. There's a neighbor's pit bull who occasionally strays over here once a week or so that we shoo away easily, so if a convo is needed, will definitely have one! Will be installing no-dig wire mesh at the bottom of the whole fence to help deter the digging predators. Oy so much to consider!


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Ashlynn said:


> I have a 4 foot fence too. It has barbed wire on the inside of two woven wire sides and a wooden fence on the other two sides with the non barbed fence diving the bucks from the girls. I do wish it was buried into the ground though. Must be very proactive about covering up any holes that things could get in. We have predators pretty bad, but have only lost goats to dogs in the neighborhood who have dug under. The other predators usually go for the chickens and leave the goats alone. We have had run ins with bobcats, coyotes, foxes, and a bunch of smaller things like raccoons, I swear I saw a panther too, but no one believes me lol. We have cage traps set by the chickens. We have a spotlight that is motion censored by the house that faces the goat pasture, but isn't in it. Ever sense we were helping to breed a girl's goat and it got killed by what we think was dogs (very traumatic finding someone else's goat dead on your property and having to tell them), we have kept bells on two of our goats. One bell on the wether in the buck pen. One on a doe in the pen with everyone else. This supposedly helps to scare predators because it makes noises when they run. Our dogs have also become very helpful. We have Brittanies. They aren't livestock dogs, but letting them over to the goat pasture when they start barking has definitely saved us from a few dead animals, as they chase stuff away.


Thanks for sharing. And how awful about the other person's goat. :-( I can't imagine the position you were in. We're getting no-dig wire mesh installed at the bottom of the whole fence to hopefully be proactive. The spotlight that is motion sensored is an excellent idea, thank you. The bell is certainly something to consider too. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences/lessons learned!


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Goataddict said:


> I have a 4 feet fence as well keeps the goat in and offer adequate protection. Have you considered electric fencing zaps the goats going out and zaps what is trying to get in. Leave no space as goats and predators can go out and come in. The major predator in my area is the dogs. ( They decimated my entire chicken and rabbit population)
> 
> My dog ( though not a guardian) with her bark she scares things away and alerts us to intruders.


Yes have definitely considered it, but biggest worry is if it is safe for the animals? Read just a few (which was enough!) really sad stories about animals getting stuck and injured. Any experiences to share or have you found it entirely safe? And so sorry to hear about the chickens and rabbits, that's awful. :-(


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## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

Dylann said:


> Yes have definitely considered it, but biggest worry is if it is safe for the animals? Read just a few (which was enough!) really sad stories about animals getting stuck and injured. Any experiences to share or have you found it entirely safe? And so sorry to hear about the chickens and rabbits, that's awful. :-(


If you wanted to do electric, I would put it on the outside. Goats are relatively easy to keep in regular fencing as long as there are no holes going under the fence, no things to help climb over the fence, and the gate is at an appropriate height off the ground to where it can swing well but not let them slip under. Predators getting in would be the main issue. You could have regular fencing and then strands of solar electric fencing on the outside to deter things from getting in. That way the goats are less likely to get stuck, but you still have the electric protection.


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## Dylann (Jun 21, 2020)

Ashlynn said:


> If you wanted to do electric, I would put it on the outside. Goats are relatively easy to keep in regular fencing as long as there are no holes going under the fence, no things to help climb over the fence, and the gate is at an appropriate height off the ground to where it can swing well but not let them slip under. Predators getting in would be the main issue. You could have regular fencing and then strands of solar electric fencing on the outside to deter things from getting in. That way the goats are less likely to get stuck, but you still have the electric protection.


Ahh that makes total sense, thank you.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

Dylann said:


> Yes have definitely considered it, but biggest worry is if it is safe for the animals? Read just a few (which was enough!) really sad stories about animals getting stuck and injured. Any experiences to share or have you found it entirely safe? And so sorry to hear about the chickens and rabbits, that's awful. :-(


Yes it is safe for animals. It delivers a shock that after the animal won't forget and will make the connection that the fence means trouble and getting zapped. I would think they would stay away from the fence or certain distance not close enough to get stuck in it. The point @Ashlynn made is okay as well. It really depends on the user though. 
Thanks it can be though sometimes.


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