# New with a couple questions



## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi, I'm new here and I had a couple of questions my first one is about copper I got my first goat in April she came to me copper deficient and pregnant the same week we got her she kidded we were told she was due in 3 weeks but that whole week I researched watched videos to prepare for babies and I checked on her everyday ligaments udders and the one day I left with my dad my brother calls and says there's a baby on the ground but how long does it take for the signs of deficiency go down I'm giving her copper bolus every six months? Another question I have is eye boogers on a goat is it concerning she seems fine otherwise but I've read that it could be an illness sign? I have many but am blanking but I'm usually nervous about asking questions because I've received not so nice comments about how if i was to get goats i should know everything about them but something new happens almost everyday.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Welcome to TGS. Keep asking questions. There are many knowledgable persons on the site. I hope some one can help. It helps to post pictures as well. And since you have a wee one post a picture of him / her.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Tanya said:


> Welcome to TGS. Keep asking questions. There are many knowledgable persons on the site. I hope some one can help. It helps to post pictures as well. And since you have a wee one post a picture of him / her.


The Baby actually died a few months ago I was going to post another question because we don't know why but I'll post some of them he was just like his mom though same personality


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Start with taking her temp and posting some pics, that would be very helpful. Also include what loose minerals she is getting, type of feed including hay and grain, and amount. That's a great place to start so we can help you. Sorry for your loss of the kid.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I am so sorry for your loss.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Welcome to the forum! You are perfectly safe to ask all questions here. This is a very friendly forum. Im sorry you lost baby. 

Copper: how often depends on your feed/mineral and well water situation to start. Knowing the signs of low copper is key to help guide you. 
Eye boogers: start with a temperature. 101.5-103-5 is normal range. Color of eye discharge offers some clues as well...yellow or green can indicate infection....sometimes its just from watery eyes due to cold weather. 

Please post pictures of your goats and grab those temps...


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

goatblessings said:


> Start with taking her temp and posting some pics, that would be very helpful. Also include what loose minerals she is getting, type of feed including hay and grain, and amount. That's a great place to start so we can help you. Sorry for your loss of the kid.


I give them free choice sweetlix minerals and a salt block both of which they love. I feed a grass hay alfalfa mix and they also get let out to ou pasture its not huge but works for our goats ( I have 4 now) I also give sometimes not all the time some grain not a specific brand I buy by the barrel


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Tanya said:


> I am so sorry for your loss.


Thank you it was a lesson for sure and he wasn't our first loss just the hardest


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Minerals: Sweet lix meat maker? There are a few different ones..so want to be sure its meat maker which is a good one. 
Hay/alfalfa blend is nice too. 

Hows your well water? High in iron, calcium, or Sulfur?


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)




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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

This is the information i could find about the water in my area


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Minerals: Sweet lix meat maker? There are a few different ones..so want to be sure its meat maker which is a good one.
> Hay/alfalfa blend is nice too.
> 
> Hows your well water? High in iron, calcium, or Sulfur?


I got the minerals suggested from the feed guy at the feed store but I think its a milker one should I get the meat maker next


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Any other Sweet lix over the meat maker one doesn't have enough copper. So yes..if its not meatmaker...I would switch that out


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We have high Sulphur in our water..it smells of rotten eggs, high iron can cause erosion and red stains and high calcium will show as build up. All three are copper antagonists if any are high. We use a online hose filter from Horse Hydrator to help reduce Sulphur which helps some here. Are you on well or city water?


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Ok


happybleats said:


> Any other Sweet lix over the meat maker one doesn't have enough copper. So yes..if its not meatmaker...I would switch that out


 Ok thank you I'll head out to the feed store in a couple days shes not showing any worrisome signs just the coat color no fish tail or hair loss around the eyes and nose so ill get them some meat maker


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> We have high Sulphur in our water..it smells of rotten eggs, high iron can cause erosion and red stains and high calcium will show as build up. All three are copper antagonists if any are high. We use a online hose filter from Horse Hydrator to help reduce Sulphur which helps some here. Are you on well or city water?


Im on city water


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

City water should not be high on either..a hose filter can clean it up a bit better if needed


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> City water should not be high on either..a hose filter can clean it up a bit better if needed


ok cool thank you


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Does anyone know anything that would cause a sudden lameness and high fever in a 5 month old kid


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

The goat kid that passed was fine one night and by morning he couldn't stand on his own and so I brought him inside and checked his temp. and it was super dangerously high so we got him banamine and it brought his fever down a little but he was having seizures if he was moved and would drool excessively. he ended up dying a around 11 that night but we don't know what happened none our goats were even sick all had normal temps all day it seemed like he was the only one to be ill


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> City water should not be high on either..a hose filter can clean it up a bit better if needed


ok cool thank you


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Does anyone know what can cause sudden lameness and hgh fevers the kid I was mentioning earlier he was 5 months and was fine one night and by the next morning he was unable to stand on his own I brought him inside and gave him banamine which helped a little but not much but due to the high fevers anytime he was moved he would have seizures and eventually he would have them without being move like if we moved his head to give electrolytes or water he'd seize. once the seizures slowed and became less frequent he was just alive and laying side ways drooling excessively he ended up dying at 11 pm that night but we never knew what caused it ( this was in sept. but I've always been scared to ask thinking it could have been me not noticing signs sooner but he had no fever the night before I found him)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

This is hard to say for sure but guesses would be toxins, polio. Listerisos, pneumonia with super high fever to name a few. 

I'm sorry that happened. I'm sure was hard to watch.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

That sounds like water mouth. E coli infections are almost always fatal. but i have never herd of one in a kid that old. but if the E coli load is high enough and the kids immune system is week it could happen.
E coli is most common in kids under 72 hours old.
prevention make sure the kid gets colostrum milk the first feeding
make sure the kids have a clean environment in the barn.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Yes it was


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

fivemoremiles said:


> That sounds like water mouth. E coli infections are almost always fatal. but i have never herd of one in a kid that old. but if the E coli load is high enough and the kids immune system is week it could happen.
> E coli is most common in kids under 72 hours old.
> prevention make sure the kid gets colostrum milk the first feeding
> make sure the kids have a clean environment in the barn.


IS there an article on this it was really hard when he died because we didn know what was happening to him and couldn't get ahold of the vet


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

This is mom and baby the day he was born this picture is actually when I noticed her deficiency and started giving her copper bolus she was a FF so she wouldn't nurse and we had to hold her


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

This was him a day later with his momma just out of the frame


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

This was him a little older we had just got some new bales of hay and he was investigating it when I was moving them into the feed shed


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

They look nubian or a cross of nubian? There is a genetic default nubians called G6S that can carry " Affected *goats* exhibit delayed motor development, growth retardation, and early death."


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

View attachment 192921
This was him a little older we had just got some new bales of hay and he was investigating it when I was moving them into the feed shed


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> They look nubian or a cross of nubian? There is a genetic default nubians called G6S that can carry " Affected *goats* exhibit delayed motor development, growth retardation, and early death."


I noticed the baby boys male parts didn't even grow big enough for me to band him


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

This was him a week before he did with his momma


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Definitely a possibility. Mom or dad would be a carrier if I remember correctly. Blood test can confirm on parents if so. Would be good to know. Might look G-6S up to learn more.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Definitely a possibility. Mom or dad would be a carrier if I remember correctly. Blood test can confirm on parents if so. Would be good to know. Might look G-6S up to learn more.


Thank you for this information will definitely do more research


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

My pleasure.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

good catch happybleats i have not had nubians for years so G-6s was left in the cobwebs of my mind.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi..Welcome to TGS! So glad you are here! Be sure and ask all the questions you want to..We all have questions
And it opens up great conversations.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Hi..Welcome to TGS! So glad you are here! Be sure and ask all the questions you want to..We all have questions
> And it opens up great conversations.


thank you glad to be here


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

:groupwelcome: Glad to have you here!
So sorry for your loss. He was a cutie!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I don't believe that a high temperature is a symptom of G6S.

*Symptoms* of *G6S* include slowed growth, lack of muscle mass, blindness, deafness and eventually death caused by liver failure. The longest-lived goat known to be affected by *G6S* died just before his fourth birthday. *G6S* occurs only in Nubian goats and their cousins, like Mini-Nubians.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lottsagoats1 said:


> don't believe that a high temperature is a symptom of G6S.


True..I dont read it as a symptom either.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Looking at the last pic of this little guy, he looked small and underweight. What was your worming protocol? Also, all folks breeding Nubians should be aware of G6S status. It is relatively inexpensive, easy (hair sample), and gives you piece of mind for your herd and breeding program.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

goatblessings said:


> Looking at the last pic of this little guy, he looked small and underweight. What was your worming protocol? Also, all folks breeding Nubians should be aware of G6S status. It is relatively inexpensive, easy (hair sample), and gives you piece of mind for your herd and breeding program.


He was just put back in with the rest of the herd because someone sold me sick goat kids who died from coccidiosis which he got but I corrected it and he was fine and back to himself and then a couple days more like a week later i found him unable to stand


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

So, most kids will get coccidia. I always treat new kids for cocci after getting them, stress causes a bloom. Then run a fecal to see levels and check for other worms. After you treated him, if you didn't check fecals a few days later, you may have needed to repeat, check your dosage or use a different treatment or he may alsohave been battling other worms. Wormloads and parasites lower immune system, which can make them susceptible to pneumonia and other things. Goats have a steep learning curve, and after decades many of us are still learning from each other. So very sorry for your losses this year. Best wishes in the future.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

goatblessings said:


> So, most kids will get coccidia. I always treat new kids for cocci after getting them, stress causes a bloom. Then run a fecal to see levels and check for other worms. After you treated him, if you didn't check fecals a few days later, you may have needed to repeat, check your dosage or use a different treatment or he may alsohave been battling other worms. Wormloads and parasites lower immune system, which can make them susceptible to pneumonia and other things. Goats have a steep learning curve, and after decades many of us are still learning from each other. So very sorry for your losses this year. Best wishes in the future.


thank you I have a bidding season coming up starting march so I hope all goes well


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## Amlp75 (Dec 7, 2020)

Jasmine E Degroat said:


> I give them free choice sweetlix minerals and a salt block both of which they love. I feed a grass hay alfalfa mix and they also get let out to ou pasture its not huge but works for our goats ( I have 4 now) I also give sometimes not all the time some grain not a specific brand I buy by the barrel


My goats wouldn't eat any of the minerals I got and they kept getting internal parasites. I read about Thoravin sea kelp and minerals for livestock. I emailed them to see if anyone in my area (NorCal) carried it and a store in my town. I've had to refill their minerals daily since I bought it. They are going thru 2-3 cups daily (I have 11 goats). It said on their website that might be the case for 30-60 days if the goats are mineral deficient. I had no idea they were deficient as they look fine. It was the subtle small things Like lack of playing. Regardless, they are start to play again. I also started giving them each 1 garlic clove smothered in pumpkin rolled in slippery elm powder each day and they love and fecals came back clean.


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## Nicholas (Nov 3, 2020)

Suggest you get a necropsy on any kid that dies as you describe. Could be several diseases, mineral deficiencies, toxins. 
Ask your vet if your state land grant university or your department of ag has a state lab that does necropsies.


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## Jasmine E Degroat (Dec 17, 2020)

Nicholas said:


> Suggest you get a necropsy on any kid that dies as you describe. Could be several diseases, mineral deficiencies, toxins.
> Ask your vet if your state land grant university or your department of ag has a state lab that does necropsies.


This was back in September so I am no longer able to do one but if this happens again I will do one hoping it doesn't happen again


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