# 9 born...8 dead



## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

I am stuck waiting for the road to thaw out...as I bite my nails wondering WHAT HAPPENED?!!
Last Wednesday night I had 2 goats kid (both new mommas)...4 kids total, 2 dead-presumably at birth-their mommas didn't even clean them up.
Saturday 5 more babies were born-3 dead (one an experienced nanny and the others brand new mommas). By the end of the day Saturday-after drying, warming, bottling, and repeating...one more kidling was dead.
At this point-Saturday evening...one of the kidlings born on Thursday is doing fairly well-all of the others are very weak, don't really want to get up or stand up...I warmed them up, got nice warm goat milk in their tummies...all of them were alert and noisy-so I just kept warming them and getting milk in them. Brought the other kidling from Thursday down to the house...and he died Saturday evening while I was holding him.
Symptoms: weak, lethargic, will stand for a bit-but not much... One of them had frothy nasal discharge-and I would swear that I didn't get milk in her lungs...
Called vet-vet office staff called back and said it was CES...and not to worry. Well...I can't find anything on CES-so I asked and she said, I think it was CES...I know it was a C..." uhm...okay...glad I know another vet. Called the other vet and they want to do a necropsy-but now I am snowed/iced in.
Looking on line-it is a possibility that we might be dealing with white muscle disease...maybe?!! Does anyone have any experience with this?
Just as a precaution I added Wheat Germ to the feeder for my one nanny who still has a kid... Wheat Germ has selenium-and it is about the only thing besides lamb liver that I have handy...and I don't think Ms. Sniffey will want to eat any lamb liver...
I hope to get out tomorrow or Friday to have a necropsy done-but I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas...and what about the milk and/or the meat? good...bad...okay...maybe...?
Thanks for all your help...


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

what area are you in? are you there for the kiddings? is it super windy / cold there?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

first I'm sorry your new year is start out this way. I don't know that the milk/meat is bad or ok, I'd probably want to know what is killing them first. Did the mommas have bo-se or the kids? Did they get any colostrum? how are the moms doing?


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## Lily's Mom (Jun 8, 2012)

had similar problems but not that severe last year. lost 40% and others were weak and small. switched feed and minerals, then added copper to their diets. only lost 4 of 26 this year and 2 were to predators. Sometimes new moms will leave babies alone as gthey are unsure what to do their first time.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow..I am so sorry...the only time I lost that many kids at birth was when we raised Boer...in our area many producers were loosing kids at birth...born alive and dead by the time they hit the ground all the way..I was told it was worms!! dormant til the babies were born then their little bodies were attacked..that was our first year with goats...I was ready to quit...I decided to worm the heck out of my remaining pregnant does and the rest of the babies were born alive and well..I also wormed them at birth..taking a chance but I just did not want to loose anymore. This may not be your problem..but its just one explanation...do keep a few babies in the freezer until you can have them looked at...knowing is very important..I wish I did and I would be sure what happened instead of guessing with what I was told..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It could be Selenium, could also be Copper, Clamydia comes to mind as well. 
I now that you are snowed in and that will make things harder. Do you have baking soda? Put a pinch in their bottle. Do you have Vitamin B in any form? Human tablets can be ground for them and put in their bottle, injectable can be given by mouth 1/4cc. Do you have vitamin E gelcaps? the oil can be sqeezed into their mouths. Be very careful handling afterbirth until you can consult a vet, especially if you might be pregnant. Better safe... 
These things may or may not help them but, they won't hurt them. 
So sorry you are stuck and with this problem. I pray your roads thaw soon so that you can get help.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Maybe he meant CAE although not sure how this fits your problem at all....It could be white muscle if your area is selenium deficient and dam/kids weren't supplemented. I know my area is, so mom's get sel/vit E gel a couple of weeks before kidding and once a month during pregnancy. The kids get some immediately at birth. You can also do BoSe. You can Google selenium deficient areas and find maps online telling you where it is and isn't deficient.

It might also be a nutritional deficiency somewhere in your herd. Coppers, etc... really anything. Evaluate your goat's diets, or post it on here...what percentage protein is in their grain, if they get any? Do you leave down free choice minerals and what kind? Do they get alfalfa or grass hay and what is the quality? Are mom's fat or skinny (meat along spine and over hips)?

How cold is it? No matter how well you warm them after the fact, if you are not there at birth to immediately bring their temps up and it is cold where you are...they could die. Are they born in a wind-proof shelter or out in the open? Are you there at birth to make sure they area getting colostrum within the first few hours? If you aren't there and they are weak at birth due to cold weather, and can't get up to drink colostrum it can be hard to pull them through if too much time has passed. Every hour without colostrum their bodies lose efficiency to absorb it. After a certain time span they can't absorb it at all...then their immune system doesn't function right and they don't make it.

I assume you aren't there as you say you find dead kids mom hasn't cleaned....It sounds like it could be a case of them simply being too chilled for too long after being born. If its cold like it is in most places right now, it may very well be too late to save a newborn by warming it up after its been too cold for an hour or two, or longer. They could have contracted fatal pneumonia in that time or as stated before, been too long without colostrum.

My advice would be to learn the signs of labor and once the doe is in labor, make hourly checks until kids arrive so you can be present. That way, you can save any kids moms didn't clean because you will be there to break the sacks for her. You can also immediately towel dry them and follow that with a blow dryer. You can make sure they've latched on and drank colostrum within the first couple of hours...or failing success at that, syringe colostrum from mom into them. If you are there at birth and they are weak, you can put karo syrup on their gums, give them Nutradrench (swear by that) or give them a coffee/whiskey mixture to give energy. I've never done the coffee/whiskey but some people swear by it. Then make sure newborns are enclosed in a draft free place with warm bedding. A heat lamp hung far enough up where mom can't knock it works well as long as you hang it safely, and you can make kid "sweaters" out of thick work socks by cutting off the toe and making leg/pee holes. Good luck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

OMG I am so very very sorry, that's a terrible thing to happen my heart is with you 

If you live in a selenium deficient area.....
I would get selenium into all the babies NOW if they were mine. Do NOT wait. If you can't get BoSe, I would go to the store and get selenium tablets and vitamin E gel caps. You can open the gel cap and put the liquid in the babies mouth -- dissolve the selenium tablets in water in a syringe, and drench the babies to get it into their system.

We have had selenium deficient kids and definitely know all about needing to get it into them. We've not lost one due to it though. Since that first time, I always ALWAYS keep something on hand. We recently started using BoSe on the does, and selenium e gel we get from Jeffers.com on the babies <I don't like using needles on newborns unless I have too>.

With using BoSe, someone in the area suggested not giving babies anything at birth if we use BoSe <unless babies really need it>.
When our doe had triplets on Sunday, I noticed on Monday the two bucklings were shivering, so I put sweaters on them.
Yesterday one was really not as active, he looked tired, cold and 'off' not alert or spunky.
I gave them selenium e gel, and that evening he was already much improved. So I'm positive the boys were selenium deficient.

I will always give selenium supplement after the babies stand and nurse, I won't sway from what my instincts tell me to do anymore


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Chlamydia came to mind. Are you sure they are kidding on time, or are they kidding early? 2 or 3 weeks would make a big difference. Necropsy on a kid or two would be a good idea, you can keep them cold until you can get them in. 

Selenium/copper deficiency is the next thing that comes to mind. .ARe you feeding loose goat minerals? Pelleted Goat feed? Have you kidded theses goats out past years? 

Toxoplasmosis also comes to mind, they get it from cats.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I always thought chlamydia & toxo caused abortion 

So sorry this is happening! 
It sounds to me like there's either something in your feed or hay, not enough of one thing or too much of another.
Severe selenium def comes to mind along with not enough mineral intake.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The does body can fight those diseases enough to carry to term Then they cause stillborn and weak babies. 
Since we don't know for sure and he/she can't get to help, it just pays to be careful until they know for sure.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

20kidsonhill said:


> Chlamydia came to mind. Are you sure they are kidding on time, or are they kidding early? 2 or 3 weeks would make a big difference. Necropsy on a kid or two would be a good idea, you can keep them cold until you can get them in.
> 
> Selenium/copper deficiency is the next thing that comes to mind. .ARe you feeding loose goat minerals? Pelleted Goat feed? Have you kidded theses goats out past years?
> 
> Toxoplasmosis also comes to mind, they get it from cats.


This as well, if it happens to all your does in the herd I would really be concerned about chlamydia...it doesn't only occur from sexual acts, it can be introduced to the does through infected bird droppings:

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/chlamydia/

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/chlamydia.html

I would think at least one or two does would have outright aborted instead of having weak kids, however...but its still a possibility.

If does are kidding too early and kids are premature it can be hard to pull them through. There is also leptospira...This article covers several diseases that cause abortion and weak, premature or stillborn kids:

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0079/UNP-0079.pdf

I believe blood testing your does can locate any of these diseases...Correct me if I'm wrong. Most abortion diseases should be treatable with antibiotics.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Also, a necropsy of a dead kid might not reveal these aborting diseases...so I would follow up the necropsy with a blood panel from one of the does to see if any of these diseases are an issue.


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## honeymeadows (Nov 20, 2012)

I am so sorry for your losses - it is hearbreaking. I had an incident with toxo several years ago. A cat had kittens in the goat shed, and I lost 5 kids out of 2 does. Fortunately the other does were not as far along and weren't affected. 

I will echo that Chlamydia and Toxo are very high on the list. Until you have an answer, you may want to presumptively treat any other does that haven't yet kidded for Chlamydia. This is what my vet recommended at the time. 
For Toxo, think about any cats in the area, where are they going to the bathroom? Necropsy might give you an answer but it has to be fresh. A placenta could also. Easiest and perhaps cheapest is to send an abortion panel on the does. (That's what I did.)

What ever you do, and for future kiddings remember this **very** important point: Most infectious diseases that cause abortion in goats, especially late term, are zoonotic. That means they will infect us too. GLOVES every time you help in kidding or touch still wet babies. 

I hope you've seen the end of it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think we need to start with what exactly do you feed your does? Do they have a good loose goat mineral? Did you give them any shots prior to kidding like the CDT vaccine, BoSe (selenium) or a copper bolus?

What kind of shelter do they have? Are you there for the births?

I'm sorry for your losses.


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

We are in Wyoming. Everyone kidded in the barn. I missed the first two kiddings... It is windy and chilly-but they are in a barn and bedded with lots of fresh straw...



kelebek said:


> what area are you in? are you there for the kiddings? is it super windy / cold there?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

nancy d said:


> I always thought chlamydia & toxo caused abortion
> 
> So sorry this is happening!
> It sounds to me like there's either something in your feed or hay, not enough of one thing or too much of another.
> Severe selenium def comes to mind along with not enough mineral intake.


No, depending on when your herd is affected it can cause weak kids.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks 20Kids


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

THANK YOU ALL!!!



So many responses, so much good information. I am surprisedat how long my honeymoon period with goats has been-what with all of thepossible diseases out there that I have never had to deal with&#8230;



I am quoting via cut and paste&#8230;



first I'm sorry your new year is start out this way. I don'tknow that the milk/meat is bad or ok, I'd probably want to know what is killingthem first. Did the mommas have bo-se or the kids? Did they get any colostrum?how are the moms doing?



I am most concerned aboutwhat is killing them-and I don't think I expressed that in my original post-tooupset. I am concerned about the milk and the meat&#8230;because I have all of thesedoes that I am milking and I don't know what I can do with the milk-if we candrink it or I can make cheese out of it&#8230;or if I need to let them dry up. 



The mommas didn't have bo-se&#8230;thisarea supposedly isn't selenium deficient-although based on a suggestion fromanother poster-I checked and the Big Horn Basin of Wyoming is on the low end ofthe range&#8230;and last year with the drought&#8230;it wouldn't be surprising-in hindsight-that the nutrient levels in the hay aren't what they need to be.



They did all get colostrum.The moms are fine&#8230;alert, on their feed, active&#8230;



It could be Selenium, could also be Copper, Clamydia comes tomind as well. 
I now that you are snowed in and that will make things harder. Do you havebaking soda? Put a pinch in their bottle. Do you have Vitamin B in any form?Human tablets can be ground for them and put in their bottle, injectable can begiven by mouth 1/4cc. Do you have vitamin E gelcaps? the oil can be sqeezedinto their mouths. Be very careful handling afterbirth until you can consult avet, especially if you might be pregnant. Better safe... 
These things may or may not help them but, they won't hurt them. 
So sorry you are stuck and with this problem. I pray your roads thaw soon sothat you can get help.



I will add baking soda and groundup Vitamin B to the does feed tomorrow. I added Wheat Germ (high in Selenium)today to my nursing doe (versus the milking does-I just didn't have enough togo around-one little jar). I will make a little solution for the kid that hassurvived&#8230;



Maybe he meant CAE although not sure how this fits your problemat all....It could be white muscle if your area is selenium deficient anddam/kids weren't supplemented. I know my area is, so mom's get sel/vit E gel acouple of weeks before kidding and once a month during pregnancy. The kids getsome immediately at birth. You can also do BoSe. You can Google seleniumdeficient areas and find maps online telling you where it is and isn'tdeficient.



After reading the posts-I didcheck and although our area isn't supposed to be selenium deficient (farmer/ranchertalk&#8230 we are borderline-not under the .1&#8230;.but lot more land around .1 than.3. Even if the vet finds it issomething else, I am going to ask her about adding a supplement&#8230;



It might also be a nutritional deficiency somewhere in your herd. Coppers,etc... really anything. Evaluate your goat's diets, or post it on here...whatpercentage protein is in their grain, if they get any? Do you leave down freechoice minerals and what kind? Do they get alfalfa or grass hay and what is thequality? Are mom's fat or skinny (meat along spine and over hips)?





Our goats get fed 2ndand 3rd cutting alfalfa hay and it is usually very good quality.With the drought last year, our hay isn't as nice as it usually is. When I feedevery morning there is feed left over-and not just stems&#8230;about a wheelbarrowfull of stems and finer stuff. The moms are fattish-definitely some meat alongthe spine and over the hips-but only one is really&#8230;uhm&#8230;rotund&#8230;she isn't set tokid until July.



How cold is it? No matter how well you warm them after the fact,if you are not there at birth to immediately bring their temps up and it iscold where you are...they could die. Are they born in a wind-proof shelter orout in the open? Are you there at birth to make sure they area gettingcolostrum within the first few hours? If you aren't there and they are weak atbirth due to cold weather, and can't get up to drink colostrum it can be hard topull them through if too much time has passed. Every hour without colostrumtheir bodies lose efficiency to absorb it. After a certain time span they can'tabsorb it at all...then their immune system doesn't function right and theydon't make it.



I assume you aren't there as you say you find dead kids momhasn't cleaned....It sounds like it could be a case of them simply being toochilled for too long after being born. If its cold like it is in most placesright now, it may very well be too late to save a newborn by warming it upafter its been too cold for an hour or two, or longer. They could havecontracted fatal pneumonia in that time or as stated before, been too longwithout colostrum.

My advice would be to learn the signs of labor and once the doe is in labor,make hourly checks until kids arrive so you can be present. That way, you cansave any kids moms didn't clean because you will be there to break the sacksfor her. You can also immediately towel dry them and follow that with a blowdryer. You can make sure they've latched on and drank colostrum within thefirst couple of hours...or failing success at that, syringe colostrum from mominto them. If you are there at birth and they are weak, you can put karo syrupon their gums, give them Nutradrench (swear by that) or give them acoffee/whiskey mixture to give energy. I've never done the coffee/whiskey butsome people swear by it. Then make sure newborns are enclosed in a draft freeplace with warm bedding. A heat lamp hung far enough up where mom can't knockit works well as long as you hang it safely, and you can make kid"sweaters" out of thick work socks by cutting off the toe and makingleg/pee holes. Good luck.



It is getting down to thesingle digits at night. I wasn't there at the first two births-neither of thosegirls showed any of the signs that I am used to seeing in my goats-but theywere new moms and maybe we just don't know each other well enough yet for me tounderstand them. They were born in a barn. 



I didn't know about not beingable to absorb colostrum after a time&#8230;thank you for that information&#8230;and yourother insights about sweaters&#8230; 



If you live in a selenium deficient area.....
I would get selenium into all the babies NOW if they were mine. Do NOT wait. Ifyou can't get BoSe, I would go to the store and get selenium tablets andvitamin E gel caps. You can open the gel cap and put the liquid in the babiesmouth -- dissolve the selenium tablets in water in a syringe, and drench thebabies to get it into their system.



I am definitely going to haveSelenium and Vitamin E on hand from now on&#8230;every time I have mentioned WhiteMuscle Disease to locals-just asking about it as I learn more about my goats (I'vehad goats for 7+ years)-I get told that we aren't deficient&#8230;instead ofverifying I just trusted what they said&#8230; I know better than that now&#8230;





Chlamydia came to mind. Are you sure they are kidding on time,or are they kidding early? 2 or 3 weeks would make a big difference. Necropsyon a kid or two would be a good idea, you can keep them cold until you can getthem in. 



They are kidding on time&#8230;Looking at Chlamydia: these were not aborted-they were full term (not disputingwhat a later poster stated). My herd is not coughing and I have one goat who ispresenting with arthritis-but she is older than the hills and isn't being bredanymore. There was an unusual discharge from one of the does-I cleaned her withwarm water and I haven't seen it since&#8230;it was mucus-y&#8230;and green/yellow/lightbrown in color. I have counted the correct number of placenta sacks&#8230; Wow&#8230;Chlamydiais pretty ferocious&#8230;



Selenium/copper deficiency is the next thing that comes to mind. .ARe youfeeding loose goat minerals? Pelleted Goat feed? Have you kidded theses goatsout past years? 



I don't feed loose goatminerals-just alfalfa, grain when they are fresh, when they are getting readyto be bred and when they are getting close to kidding. I always work them upslowly with the grain&#8230; And the grain&#8230;cracked corn, COB, or&#8230;theirfavorite-chicken scratch. I have kidded these goats out in the past and haven'thad any problems&#8230;


Toxoplasmosis also comes to mind, they get it from cats.



Oh no&#8230;we have barn cats&#8230;Reading about it...I am not sure if my goats could be infected with that-atleast not from the cats. My goats eat out of a slightly elevated feed bunk witha wooden floor that is cleaned every day. Yes, they could nibble at the groundand a cat might have defecated there-but the cats don't defecate in the feed bunkor on the hay stack. Although I will want to get this tested for my goats sakeand for the sake of my son&#8230;


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Looking over this, I'd say that the lack of minerals is probaby a large part of the problem. Even if your area is deficient in nothing, they still need the opportunity to have free choice minerals when they need them. My goats eat a lot of minerals when they are pregnant. None of your feed contains anything but the most basic nutrients and that depends on how the field was fertilised while the plants grew. Loose minerals have to be there to take up the slack, everywhere.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Straight corn in primary feed is not good for goats, even in COB. Chicken scratch doesnt contain nutrition that goats need. These two may contribute to your culprit.

As for loose minerals, right now it's very cold, does are 4+ months along & woof down those minerals.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I was thinking abortion storm and nutrition issues.


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

I am really surprised about the nutrition issues-I've always had healthy, happy goats...until now...but I am going to be making some changes because 7 years of experience haven't helped me keep this from happening...


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

And to be honest...I feel horrible. Like I said-my goats have always been healthy and thriving...until this...so I didn't think there was a problem...


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Mistakes will be made but as long as we learn from them it makes us better goat parents.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

First thing that comes to mind is you have no minerals out, Goats require very high levels of copper. Your feed is not a pelleted goat feed, Againt hey would get copper and selenium from this. It sounds like you are doing a good job feeding them to keep weight on them, but I am concerned that with no fortified goat feed and no Goat minerals or even cattle minerals your goats may be too low on copper or selenium and it is finally catching up to you. That would be my first thought, but you say you have done this several years and the some fo the first timers that kidded didn't really give you a lot of signs that they were going to kid. Perhaps low copper/selenium imn there system could also cause these signs, but what also causes this is the above mentioned kidding diseases. A few days can make a big difference in how pregnant they appear and if all the things come together for the big last day of udder boom and all of that. 

Toxoplasmosis can affect the kidding process differently depending on how early or how late in the gestation they contract the disease, some of these diseases can be a problem for a pregnant women so caution should be used and afterbirth should be cleaned up well. 

LA 200/biomycin injections are a good idea for remaining does that have not kidded if a kidded diseases is suspected. 

The fastest way to get copper in your goats is from copper sulfate drenches or there is a vitamin shot for cattle that has copper and selenium in it, but you would want to be sure they are needing it. This is Rx. I think it is called Multi-min. or something like that. 

Also, red cell for horses will add some copper and selenium to their diet. A gallon is like $25.00, so fairly affordable for what you get. 
Go to your feed store and buy your goats some loose goat minerals or loose cattle minerals. NOT A BLOCK!!!!! put it out free-choice.


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## vlinealpines (Sep 23, 2012)

Supplement copper boluses in goat sized doses are now available, too, which makes it very easy and safe to give. I would be leaning toward the theory that your goats are deficient and it has accumulated over the years. So many good posts! So much good information! So sorry for your troubles!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

20kidsonhill said:


> Go to your feed store and buy your goats some loose goat minerals or loose cattle minerals. NOT A BLOCK!!!!! put it out free-choice.


I've heard people say not to give blocks because they eat the free choice better, but mine love the blocks and eat them at an equal rate...


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

firelight27 said:


> I've heard people say not to give blocks because they eat the free choice better, but mine love the blocks and eat them at an equal rate...


What block are you buying? protein blocks are softer than the hard cattle blocks.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

I get the purple billy blocks from TSC because mine won't touch the loose mineral.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I buy the Purina goat blocks. They are pretty soft compared to my horse's mineral blocks and the cattle blocks, etc.


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

okay...delivered kids to the vet for necropsy. Should have lab results back by the first of the week. I went over our feed schedule...and when I went over it with her I realized that I missed something on here-we always have a block (I realize that there is some discussion on here as to whether or not a block or loose is better) out of salt with minerals...just a given so I didn't think of it. 
The vet is leaning towards vibrio or Chlamydia... I didn't want to bombard my does with a bunch of stuff trying to fix anything and everything that might be wrong with them...when lab work would be back in a few more days...so, we'll see
btw-our one kid is going strong and looking great.
All does are up, alert, on their feed and active. I am milking two of them and then disposing of it-because I don't know what caused the problem and I don't want to spread the problem....but want to keep at least a few of them fresh. The milk production is good-getting what we normally get out of our "experienced" doe-just over a half a gallon per milking. The other is a new this year-but she is giving between a 1/3 and a 1/2 a gallon of milk per milking as well.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Congrats on the live one doing so well. I know its hard to loose so many to the unknown but maybe the vet will have an answer and an idea of what to do for it so it won't happen again.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Did you find out what it was?


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't know why this reply didn't post the other day...but so far it isn't bacterial. They are still testing viral concerns.
The one kid is doing great...and no down does...


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## dixiequeen (Nov 16, 2012)

*so sorry for your loss*

WOW so very sorry for your loss. Lots of good info on here hope some of it helps.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

cmflora said:


> I don't know why this reply didn't post the other day...but so far it isn't bacterial. They are still testing viral concerns.
> The one kid is doing great...and no down does...


from what I understand testing for some of the diseases is very hit and miss. I woudl make sure you discuss with your vet how likely are they getting negatives and it could be positive.


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

The state lab is running all of the tests...how would I know if they missed something? Or maybe more accurately if it wasn't in that particular portion of the sample from the necropsy? 
Perhaps once we rule out viral concerns I will take in milk samples to see if there is anything that they can find there.
I did change my salt/trace mineral block from a dark purple one to a pink one. I know I should know more about what is in the different blocks-but it is late...but anyway-there is a dent in it already...trying to decide if it is sizeable enough to indicate that maybe they were missing something in the other block....
what to do...what to do...


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## honeymeadows (Nov 20, 2012)

Are results from the state back yet?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, I'd like to know what happened as well! How are the remaining?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Blocks are hard for goats to eat..their tongues are very soft and it gets raw licking blocks plus there is too much salt in blocks and they stop eating before they get enough mineral...I would find a good goat loose mineral...it does cost more UGH..but very worth it...then keep salt separate as well as baking soda as free choice..I hope the labs can give you answers...and Im so sorry for all the loss you have dealt with...a good strong name is in order for the survivor : )


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## cmflora (Jan 16, 2013)

The results are trickling in...
An unexpected bacterial growth in the placental material. The vet thinks that perhaps the does had a bacterial infection-that was minor and did not present, but caused the kids to not thrive. 
Blood draw on the does is scheduled-so that we can check them out. Outwardly, and temperature, they are doing okay. Eating well, no cough, stiffness, scours, visible infection...no change in their manner or habits.
Possibly a concern with bacteria coming in from one of our buyers...who works on a cattle ranch and who travels out of the country. So...hopefully results from the workup on the does will give us more informatin as well...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh man, that's awful....hope you can pin point it and keep it from happening again...


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