# Milk Stars



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Hi all! 
My knowledge of milk stars is very small, so I figured TGS would be a great place to learn about them! Any and all information about milk stars would be great if anyone is willing to share! Thank you!
Another question, I just totaled up our doe Squeaks' production for the year. We aren't quite done yet, but will be drying her up in December. She produced a total of 196.1406lbs this year. She is three years old, and kidded two bucklings on February 16th, 2020. That was her second freshening. Do you think she is capable of earning a milk star, or is it not even worth trying?
Thank you so much in advance for any help given!


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

Was she able to get her milk star? I will be following your thread. I have been watching You Tube videos on people working on getting their doe's milk stars.
I am also going to try and work on milk stars next year. One of my ND's doeling's dam has 6*M so when this girl kids/goes into milk sometime next year, I feel like I owe it to her to help her get her star lol.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm on test for the first time this year with my herd of nigerians. I originally had 7 does on test, now down to 6. So I am by no means an expert but I have been doing lots of research lately and have hands-on experience lol. I have 2 does who should earn stars in all 3 categories, 2 who should earn them in 2 categories, 1 who is a maybe, and 2 not even close. I'm confused by your number though. You're saying she milked 196 lbs? What breed is she?

Edit: I see that this was posted in the mini section so I will assume she's a nigerian. For a 3 year old, the volume requirement is 630-658 lbs depending on exactly how old she was when she freshened. The minimum requirement for volume starts at 600 lbs for does 2 years or younger and goes up to 690 for 5+.
Butterfat and protein stars are easier to achieve but if production isn't good it won't be enough to get them to those numbers.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Thank you so much! I didn't do milk testing this year. Maybe next year I'll try it if I can get my my last doe bred. I only have two NDs, but I would really like to do it!
What exactly is the procedure? Do you have to partner up with somebody else while doing milk test? Do the ADGA milk testers come out weekly, biweekly, or monthly?
Thank you in advance!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Is there any way to tell how many milk stars a goat has on the ADGA genetics page? I stink at navigating it.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Yes and no. There are several different options for milk test. I am owner/sampler, so I do my own testing. All the other plans do require you to have a certified tester come out, except for group testing. With group testing you need 3 or more herds and you take turns testing. Even as an owner/sampler (o/s) I do still need someone to come out at some point to do a verification test. So there is one other person involved at some point, but otherwise it's very minimal. ADGA's involvement in the whole milk testing thing is very limited. Testers are not certified througH ADGA but through a DHIA (dairy herd improvement association.) Basically all ADGA does is file your verification test and then at the very end of your goats' lactations, awards stars or not.

Testing frequency is up to you. Tests have to be more than 16 days apart, but if they're more than 45 days apart you have to provide an excuse. Most people do monthly. If you're on AR (advanced registry) you have to have a minimum of 8 tests and 280 (I think) days in milk. If you're doing ST (star) only, you can kind of do whatever. Testing is the same but AR has a few more rules. It's kind of like the difference between taking a class pass/fail vs taking it for a grade lol. I'm on ST by default this year because one of the rules for AR is that your first test has to be within 90 days of your doe freshening, which mine was not because of hangups with my DHIA. 

There isn't much milk star data on ADGA genetics aside from just showing if they have a star or not, but there is a link along the left side menu for CDCB Data. If you click that link it takes you to a site with all the doe's milking records. You do have to make an account to use it but it's free. It won't tell you what categories the doe earned her star in or when, but if you look at her data for each lactation and compare it to the requirements in the ADGA guidebook you can figure it out.

I'm (ironically) out milking goats and then I have to run to work, but I'll see if I can get you an example from my goats' pages later.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Yes and no. There are several different options for milk test. I am owner/sampler, so I do my own testing. All the other plans do require you to have a certified tester come out, except for group testing. With group testing you need 3 or more herds and you take turns testing. Even as an owner/sampler (o/s) I do still need someone to come out at some point to do a verification test. So there is one other person involved at some point, but otherwise it's very minimal. ADGA's involvement in the whole milk testing thing is very limited. Testers are not certified througH ADGA but through a DHIA (dairy herd improvement association.) Basically all ADGA does is file your verification test and then at the very end of your goats' lactations, awards stars or not.
> 
> Testing frequency is up to you. Tests have to be more than 16 days apart, but if they're more than 45 days apart you have to provide an excuse. Most people do monthly. If you're on AR (advanced registry) you have to have a minimum of 8 tests and 280 (I think) days in milk. If you're doing ST (star) only, you can kind of do whatever. Testing is the same but AR has a few more rules. It's kind of like the difference between taking a class pass/fail vs taking it for a grade lol. I'm on ST by default this year because one of the rules for AR is that your first test has to be within 90 days of your doe freshening, which mine was not because of hangups with my DHIA.
> 
> ...


Thank you so so so much! Probably a dumb question, but what does CDCB stand for?
Thank you!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Council on Dairy Cattle Breeding. Hey, everything regarding milk test is centered around cattle lol


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Council on Dairy Cattle Breeding. Hey, everything regarding milk test is centered around cattle lol


Yes it is! Thank you!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Ok well this is not going to be exciting to look at, but here goes! First is the ADGA milk star requirements from the guidebook for reference in case you don't have them handy:









Next is a screenshot from one of my doe's pages on the CDCB website. This doe has her star but she earned it while on test with a previous owner. She is 4 years old and has freshened 4 times. I just took a screenshot of the information from her first 2 freshenings.









It looks like it doesn't say how old exactly she was at the time of freshening but that won't affect a whole lot. I can figure it out but I won't bother. For her first freshening she was less than 2 years old. As I highlighted in yellow, you can see that for her first lactation, she was in milk for 242 days. She produced 305 lbs of milk, 23 lbs fat, and 16 lbs protein. These are not great numbers, but minimum for a star for her age would have been 600 lbs milk, 21 lbs fat, and 18 lbs protein. So she would be eligible for a star in butterfat only.

Second lactation is highlighted in blue and she did much better. She was in milk for 267 days, produced 690 lbs of milk, 45 lbs fat and 32 protein. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume that she was exactly 3 years old when she freshened. In that case her star requirements would be 630 milk, 22.05 fat, and 18.90 protein. So that means on her second lactation she would have earned her star in all 3 categories.

Lastly, I'm including a photo of one of my doe pages. This is a different doe, one I currently have on test.









The doe sheets are much more helpful and easy to read than the CDCB website, but of course only the owner had access to those. Your DRPC (data records processing center) sends them to you after each test. In the middle of the page you can see that Flower was 1 year 10 months at the time of kidding. So I'd be able to look up exactly the numbers I'd need for her stars. (Except under 2 years is all the same anyway so for her it doesn't matter.) You can see that she's had 4 tests so far, and the dates and results from each test are listed. You can also see her current overall totals at the bottom of the columns, as well as her lifetime totals at the very very bottom right of the page. Since this is her first lactation, her current totals ARE her lifetime totals. She is a first freshener so her requirements are 600 volume, 21 butterfat, 18 protein. She is rocking it with 708 volume, 42 fat, and 31 protein so far at 237 days in milk. So she will get her stars in all categories.

I hope this answers some of your questions and doesn't confuse you further lol!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> What exactly is the procedure?


https://www.tmgronline.com/milk-test-how-to

I referenced this website heavily when I was going through the signup process and it helped a lot! The author does a great job explaining all the steps. The only thing I'd note is that she recommends DHIA West because she's in California. I have no idea where you are, but I definitely do NOT recommend DHIA West! That's who I used and they're terrible.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

@Calistar thank you so so so so so much for the great information and the charts! They were all SUPER helpful! The first chart is exactly what I've been looking for! Your does sound like they are incredible! I'll average up my does totals this year and see if they might've made it in milk production. 

So now my questions are..
Can a doe earn a star in protein? I've heard of them getting a star in butterfat and volume, but I didn't know about protein.

We are in NJ, so would we use DHIA East? Does that exist? Lol
I'll be sure to avoid DHIA west, thank you!

So do I just need to keep an accurate record of my doe's milk production (in pounds) throughout the year, and have the milk tester come monthly to test the protein/butterfat? We always keep records of their milk production so that won't be a problem.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

So..my doe Gracie is 2 years and 7 months old right now. When she started her lactation this year, she was 2 years and 3 months old, so she would’ve need to produce 608lbs of milk for a volume milk star, right?  How long should their lactations be while on milk test? 10 months? Thank you so much for all your help!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Can a doe earn a star in protein? I've heard of them getting a star in butterfat and volume, but I didn't know about protein.


Yes, a doe can earn a star in protein. For my herd, butterfat seems to be the easiest to earn, then protein, then volume. A doe will earn her *M from a star in any category. For a doe to be able to produce a *B buck though, she needs to earn her star in both milk volume and butterfat.



CaramelKittey said:


> We are in NJ, so would we use DHIA East? Does that exist? Lol


I don't believe there is a DHIA East, but there will be DHIAs closer to your area. The first step to starting milk testing is to contact ADGA. They will mail you an information packet. One of the pages included in the packet is a list of DHIAs nationwide, so that will give you your options. You don't necessarily have to pick the closest one to you.



CaramelKittey said:


> So do I just need to keep an accurate record of my doe's milk production (in pounds) throughout the year, and have the milk tester come monthly to test the protein/butterfat? We always keep records of their milk production so that won't be a problem.


You don't even need to keep an ongoing daily record, unless you want to for your own information. They don't add up daily milkings or anything like that. They get all their data from the information recorded on test day. They take the weights from those 8 (or so) days and calculate everything from there.



CaramelKittey said:


> So..my doe Gracie is 2 years and 7 months old right now. When she started her lactation this year, she was 2 years and 3 months old, so she would've need to produce 608lbs of milk for a volume milk star, right?  How long should their lactations be while on milk test? 10 months? Thank you so much for all your help!


Yes, 608 lbs is correct. Lactations can be as long or short as you want but they only use data from the first 305 days, and you need to have enough tests to get your DCR (data collection rating) high enough. So, I am on o/s so my DCR is 75. Basically, the DCR is the level of accuracy/trustworthiness your data has. It increases as you get more tests and when you get your verification test. ADGA told me that I'd need 6-8 tests to get my DCR to 75. Usually you can view it online at that CDCB website, but since my does didn't have their first test until they were over 90 days fresh, the CDCB doesn't calculate it and ADGA has to do it manually at the end of the lactation. So, I could do one test a month and be able to dry my does off after 6-8 months. Or if I was on a time crunch I could do my tests 16 days apart and get it done in closer to 4 months. For milk stars, the lactation ends at 305 days whether you're still milking or not. So if your doe doesn't quite make enough milk for her star by day 305 but you keep her on test and she makes the requirement at, say, day 335 before you dry her off- too bad. She wouldn't qualify since it took her over 305 days.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Yes, a doe can earn a star in protein. For my herd, butterfat seems to be the easiest to earn, then protein, then volume. A doe will earn her *M from a star in any category. For a doe to be able to produce a *B buck though, she needs to earn her star in both milk volume and butterfat.
> 
> I don't believe there is a DHIA East, but there will be DHIAs closer to your area. The first step to starting milk testing is to contact ADGA. They will mail you an information packet. One of the pages included in the packet is a list of DHIAs nationwide, so that will give you your options. You don't necessarily have to pick the closest one to you.
> 
> ...


Thank you so so much!

I totaled up one of my does's milk production volume just out of curiosity, and she had about 129lbs in about 100 days. We are drying her off now though unfortunately, as things got timed wrong, because she miscarried. Do you think she could've gotten a milk star? She isn't dry yet but will be in a month.

Thank you so much for all your help!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> I totaled up one of my does's milk production volume just out of curiosity, and she had about 129lbs in about 100 days. We are drying her off now though unfortunately, as things got timed wrong, because she miscarried. Do you think she could've gotten a milk star? She isn't dry yet but will be in a month.


That's tough, since I only have my own does' records to compare to, and only 7 does at that. Most of my does were 130-150 days fresh when they had their first tests. Looking at the doe sheets from my first test this year, my closest doe to yours would be one I bought from another herd who was only 72 days fresh when she first tested. At 72 days in milk, she had done 112 lbs. So close-ish to your doe. This one unfortunately will not earn her star in any category. My second-closest to yours (as far as days in milk and volume) is one who had done 205 lbs by 132 days fresh. She should earn her star in butterfat and MAYBE protein, but not volume. Don't let that discourage you though! You never know what your doe's butterfat percentage is until you start testing, and that's the easiest star. Plus with more freshenings volume should increase.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I don't know if this will help you or not but here is the average pounds of milk each of my does has milked on test day so far and their current PROJECTED totals they'll reach by the end of their lactation. The projected totals change slightly with each test as the data becomes more complete and gets tweaked, and are just estimates. But I know from experience that when you're just starting, even vague ideas help lol! If you can average totals from each of your does maybe you can get an idea by comparing them to mine.

All numbers refer to lbs of milk.

Journey (1-09, first freshener)
Daily average: 1.18
Total predicted: 359

Stala (5-00, 5th freshener)
Daily average: 2.20
Total predicted: 718

Trinket (3-05, 3rd freshener)
Daily average: 2.38
Total predicted: 768

Flower (1-10, first freshener)
Daily average: 2.68
Total predicted: 850

Snowball (1-10, first freshener)
Daily average: 1.85
Total predicted: 576

Reckless (2-11, 3rd freshener)
Daily average: 0.20
Total predicted: 101
(We just try not to talk about this one  )

Virginia (3-01, 2nd freshener)
Daily average: 1.35
Total predicted: 343


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I really encourage you to do DHIR! It can sound or look intimidating but it is really quite simple once you get going! This is my first year doing it. I wanted to take the easiest route the first time around and I am having the DHIA gal come out every 16 days or longer and test. It has been an adventure for both of us because she is new to testing for Goats. Me being new I didn't really keep track of the CDCB site at first, I found out about it halfway through and made an account and noticed my herd didn't exist on the database. I had to contact a few folks and they have slowly been getting all my tests to filter in properly, some still haven't but I'm still excited. 3 of my 4 does have earned their stars so I am really excited to see our final number close to the 305 day mark. We will be finished in late December. Even with the mix up its been pretty awesome! Here are some of my pages  and my goofy looking CDCB site pages.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> I don't know if this will help you or not but here is the average pounds of milk each of my does has milked on test day so far and their current PROJECTED totals they'll reach by the end of their lactation. The projected totals change slightly with each test as the data becomes more complete and gets tweaked, and are just estimates. But I know from experience that when you're just starting, even vague ideas help lol! If you can average totals from each of your does maybe you can get an idea by comparing them to mine.
> 
> All numbers refer to lbs of milk.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! Your does sound awesome!
My doe was 1 day fresh when I starting recording data. Lol

Do you mind adding your doe's ages? Thank you!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

FoxRidge said:


> I really encourage you to do DHIR! It can sound or look intimidating but it is really quite simple once you get going! This is my first year doing it. I wanted to take the easiest route the first time around and I am having the DHIA gal come out every 16 days or longer and test. It has been an adventure for both of us because she is new to testing for Goats. Me being new I didn't really keep track of the CDCB site at first, I found out about it halfway through and made an account and noticed my herd didn't exist on the database. I had to contact a few folks and they have slowly been getting all my tests to filter in properly, some still haven't but I'm still excited. 3 of my 4 does have earned their stars so I am really excited to see our final number close to the 305 day mark. We will be finished in late December. Even with the mix up its been pretty awesome! Here are some of my pages  and my goofy looking CDCB site pages.


Thank you so much! Those charts were very helpful. 

Probably a dumb question, but what does DIM stand for? 
Also, does it say on there what their projected totals are? I couldn't find it.

Thank you so much!


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

DIM is Days in Milk and yes it does show projected milk but each goat is so different. It can maintain or slowly trend down over time. I'll highlight the projected milk from my 2nd and last tests so you can see how much it changed.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Thank you so much! Your does sound awesome!
> My doe was 1 day fresh when I starting recording data. Lol
> 
> Do you mind adding your doe's ages? Thank you!


I updated my post to include their age at kidding and their lactation number. My does are all over the board- some are doing very well, others not so much! It's been a very informative endeavor!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

FoxRidge said:


> DIM is Days in Milk and yes it does show projected milk but each goat is so different. It can maintain or slowly trend down over time. I'll highlight the projected milk from my 2nd and last tests so you can see how much it changed.


Thank you! That makes a lot more sense now.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> I updated my post to include their age at kidding and their lactation number. My does are all over the board- some are doing very well, others not so much! It's been a very informative endeavor!


Thank you so much! I'll average up my doe's totals and see how she fits in.  You've been super helpful and I couldn't appreciate it more!!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Thank you so much! I'll average up my doe's totals and see how she fits in.  You've been super helpful and I couldn't appreciate it more!!


Glad I could help! It's a really complicated process to get signed up for but once you're there, it's pretty straightforward! I have asked SO MANY QUESTIONS so far during my DHI Journey just to get to the point I'm at. ADGA, other breeders, my lab...they're probably all sick of me, but I've learned a lot!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Glad I could help! It's a really complicated process to get signed up for but once you're there, it's pretty straightforward! I have asked SO MANY QUESTIONS so far during my DHI Journey just to get to the point I'm at. ADGA, other breeders, my lab...they're probably all sick of me, but I've learned a lot!


Asking questions is good! Because you asked questions, you got that knowledge, and you can pass it into others. 

When is the best time to sign up for milk test?


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> When is the best time to sign up for milk test?


You can sign up at any time, but I recommend starting a couple months in advance of when you want to start testing. Remember how I said I don't recommend DHIA West? It took me FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS to get everything processed with them. This is not normal. (Well, maybe for DHIA West it is!) I made contact with them in February, knowing my does would all kid in March and that I'd want to start milking (and testing) in May once kids were weaned. It took so long, I wasn't able to do my first test until mid July! The guy at DHIA West would routinely go 2 weeks between replies to my emails (if he responded at all) and there were just all kinds of other problems. Then he had the audacity to suggest that "maybe things should have been started earlier on your end" when I politely asked if the process usually takes that long. Oh man. I do not have warm feelings towards DHIA West at all 

Anyway, DHI enrollment and fees renew at the beginning of the year no matter when you sign up, so you might as well wait until then to sign up for your first time as long as that still gives you time before kidding.


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

So funny I posted about my CDCB data being messed up, today I checked it again, I just checked it the other day when I posted pictures of it being funky and today it is completely straightened out!! YAY!! I am so pleased!

So i have a question for everyone. Why is the DCR different for each of my does but they have all had the same amount of tests?

Equanimitys Miss Lorraine

Shere Country TMJ Cavatina

Shere Country TMJ Sunflower

Sugar Moon BL Madeline


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

Holy crap I literally just double checked to make sure the links worked and all the DCRs are 97 now, an hour ago they were all different number LOL


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> You can sign up at any time, but I recommend starting a couple months in advance of when you want to start testing. Remember how I said I don't recommend DHIA West? It took me FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS to get everything processed with them. This is not normal. (Well, maybe for DHIA West it is!) I made contact with them in February, knowing my does would all kid in March and that I'd want to start milking (and testing) in May once kids were weaned. It took so long, I wasn't able to do my first test until mid July! The guy at DHIA West would routinely go 2 weeks between replies to my emails (if he responded at all) and there were just all kinds of other problems. Then he had the audacity to suggest that "maybe things should have been started earlier on your end" when I politely asked if the process usually takes that long. Oh man. I do not have warm feelings towards DHIA West at all
> 
> Anyway, DHI enrollment and fees renew at the beginning of the year no matter when you sign up, so you might as well wait until then to sign up for your first time as long as that still gives you time before kidding.


Thank you!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

FoxRidge said:


> So funny I posted about my CDCB data being messed up, today I checked it again, I just checked it the other day when I posted pictures of it being funky and today it is completely straightened out!! YAY!! I am so pleased!
> 
> So i have a question for everyone. Why is the DCR different for each of my does but they have all had the same amount of tests?
> 
> ...


What's is a DCR? Lol 
Thank you!
Glad everything is straightened out with your does now.  I wonder what caused it! :what:


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

It is the Data Collection Rating, you want it to be up above 90 or 95 I believe if you want to try to compete in the top 10 in DHIR. I was really just shooting for the "Stars" but we got to the 90's easily


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

FoxRidge said:


> It is the Data Collection Rating, you want it to be up above 90 or 95 I believe if you want to try to compete in the top 10 in DHIR. I was really just shooting for the "Stars" but we got to the 90's easily


Awesome, thank you! What do you the think is the lowest DCR a doe can have and still get her milk Star?


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Awesome, thank you! What do you the think is the lowest DCR a doe can have and still get her milk Star?


With o/s, the DCR is only 75. I think that's the lowest.


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

I don't know if the DCR is so important for a milk star as much as for if you are trying to compete for top 10 in the breed. This is only my first year so I too am really learning a lot .


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

FoxRidge said:


> I don't know if the DCR is so important for a milk star as much as for if you are trying to compete for top 10 in the breed. This is only my first year so I too am really learning a lot .


It is necessary for a milk star, at least on O/S. It's just higher for Top 10, but O/S isn't eligible for Top 10 anyway. I skimmed the guidebook quickly but couldn't find specified DCR for the other test plans.


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

Which one is harder to *star in: The 1 Day or the longer test?


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

The one day milking competition, they have to proven themselves that one day and do EXCEPTIONAL to earn a star


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

Ok thats so cool. I recently bought a little buckling whose dam apparently was #1 for butterfat on the 1 day test awards listed with AGS in 2016. Hopefully he will pass those genes on lol. I wasn't sure if the 1 Day test really had as much merit as the longer test. 
So they can just get Top Ten on the 1Day test even though they only get top butterfat, top protein, or top milk production? On the longer Test are the catagories the same or do they just take a total of all the catagories for their top ten awards?
I'm just trying to figure it all out? Still kinda confused..


----------



## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

This was when Crystal did one a few years ago


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

Thanks!!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Thank you, that video was helpful!

Are there any kind of fees/expenses involved with milk testing? Do the milk testers come out to your farm, or do you have to meet them somewhere, or do it at a show?


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Oh yes, definitely fees!

There is a fee to sign up with ADGA. I forget how much it is, and new herds have to pay an additional herd enrollment fee. You have to renew each year and pay the subsequent fee, but the new herd enrollment fee is a one-time fee.

(ETA: I just looked it up and for a new herd of 1-5 does it is $45 to sign up with ADGA. Renewal each year is $40.)

There is a fee to take the certification test. DHIA West charged me $54 (or was it $56?) for the test and the reference book. The certification is good for 2 years.

There is a fee to have your scale calibrated, which must be done annually. DHIA West charges $25.

There is a fee for each test. The lab and the processing center both have their fee, but my lab includes the processing center's fee so I just write one check. For 7 does it cost about $28 per test.

So all in all, not an inexpensive venture, but it's manageable, and the data you get from it is invaluable.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

As far as milk testers, those come out to your farm. You can do the one-day milk test at a show, but for the 305 day tests, the tester comes to you. (Which is another fee you'll have to add in, unless you work out a deal with your tester.) The point of the test is to not deviate at all from your regular milking routine, so that test day is like any other day.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Thank you! I am already an ADGA member and both of our does were registered by the farm we purchased them from, so do we still need to register them as a herd? 

I only have one doe whom I think could _maybe_ get her star, so I'll probably try to do it in the future when I have at _least_ another doe to do it with.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Thank you! I am already an ADGA member and both of our does were registered by the farm we purchased them from, so do we still need to register them as a herd?
> 
> I only have one doe whom I think could _maybe_ get her star, so I'll probably try to do it in the future when I have at _least_ another doe to do it with.


Yes, the DHI enrollment fee is separate from your ADGA membership fee.

It's probably not worth it for just one doe unless you really think she'll get her star. It's still really useful information though! For example, my one doe who did TERRIBLE as far as volume turned out to be my highest percentage butterfat producer. She won't earn her star, but it's still good to know.

One thing to keep in mind is that you have to have all your milking does of the same breed on test, so even if you think only one will get her star, you still have to test all the others if they are in milk.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> Yes, the DHI enrollment fee is separate from your ADGA membership fee.
> 
> It's probably not worth it for just one doe unless you really think she'll get her star. It's still really useful information though! For example, my one doe who did TERRIBLE as far as volume turned out to be my highest percentage butterfat producer. She won't earn her star, but it's still good to know.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that you have to have all your milking does of the same breed on test, so even if you think only one will get her star, you still have to test all the others if they are in milk.


Ok, thank you! We do have one kinder doe as well as our two Nigerian Dwarfs, so would we need to test her as well?
Still definitely would love to do the program! If my doe Gracie had a doeling, if she's pregnant, and doesn't miscarry again..I really really want to do it! Thank you so much for all your help!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Ok, thank you! We do have one kinder doe as well as our two Nigerian Dwarfs, so would we need to test her as well?
> Still definitely would love to do the program! If my doe Gracie had a doeling, if she's pregnant, and doesn't miscarry again..I really really want to do it! Thank you so much for all your help!


You would not need to test your kinder. You have to test all does of your chosen breed, but if you have more than one breed you can decide which breed(s) to put on test.

Fingers crossed for you and Gracie, I hope she gives you a healthy doeling!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> You would not need to test your kinder. You have to test all does of your chosen breed, but if you have more than one breed you can decide which breed(s) to put on test.
> 
> Fingers crossed for you and Gracie, I hope she gives you a healthy doeling!


Thank you so much! I hope she does too!!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

If a doe gets her star in butterfat but not volume, can you test her again? Is there a limit to how many times she can be tested? And, if she got a star in all categories, can she be milk tested again? And, since all your does of that breed must be tested, would a doe that got her star in every category be tested again as well?
Thank you!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> If a doe gets her star in butterfat but not volume, can you test her again? Is there a limit to how many times she can be tested? And, if she got a star in all categories, can she be milk tested again? And, since all your does of that breed must be tested, would a doe that got her star in every category be tested again as well?
> Thank you!


There's no limit to how many years a doe can be on test, so if she only gets her star in butterfat you can absolutely try again the next lactation! Even if she already has all her stars, she can still be tested again. And having all her stars does not excuse her from being tested if the rest of your herd is on test.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Calistar said:


> There's no limit to how many years a doe can be on test, so if she only gets her star in butterfat you can absolutely try again the next lactation! Even if she already has all her stars, she can still be tested again. And having all her stars does not excuse her from being tested if the rest of your herd is on test.


Thank you! I guess the more milk tests a doe does and succeeds in, the better, right?


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

So..here’s my other question..

If a doe has a dam that gets her star (let’s say her dam and grandam, etc. got their milk stars so she is 5*M) has a daughter, and her daughter isn’t milk tested, is her daughter still a 5*M but not a 6*M until she is tested? And, let’s suppose that doe that isn’t tested has a daughter that gets her star. Is that daughter only 1*M? What happens if that daughter’s dam gets her star? Does she become 7*M? 

DDD: Doe #1 5*M
DD: Doe #2 never tested
D: Doe #3 1*M

I’m basically just wondering what happens to Doe #3 if Doe #2 gets her star after Doe #3. Sorry if this in confusing. Lol And sorry for my really strange questions. 

And thank you so much for all your help!


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> Thank you! I guess the more milk tests a doe does and succeeds in, the better, right?


More data is always great! How important that data is depends on you and your priorities, as well as your buyers' priorities. Some people just want to see a *M after the doe's name and that's all they care about. For them, any star will do. Or to help their sire earn a +B, I believe any star will do. If you want your doe to be able to produce *B offspring, you'll need your doe to get her *M in volume and butterfat. But if you want to know exactly how much a doe produces or see how her production holds up over time is where the continued testing is important. Or if you get really competitive and want to shoot for Top 10 or something


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> So..here's my other question..
> 
> If a doe has a dam that gets her star (let's say her dam and grandam, etc. got their milk stars so she is 5*M) has a daughter, and her daughter isn't milk tested, is her daughter still a 5*M but not a 6*M until she is tested? And, let's suppose that doe that isn't tested has a daughter that gets her star. Is that daughter only 1*M? What happens if that daughter's dam gets her star? Does she become 7*M?
> 
> ...


If there's a break in the chain, it starts over. So yes, you have it correct. Doe #3 would be 1*M but if her dam later got her star, Doe #3 would be automatically bumped up to 7*M.

Im dealing with that right now actually lol. I bought a doe who had never been tested. Her dam is a 2*M. The woman who sold me the doe kept two of her daughters, who have since earned their stars and are 1*M. My doe is on test and qualifies for her star in at least 2 categories, so by the end of her lactation she will be a 3*M and her daughters will be bumped up to 4*M, even though they already had their stars by the time their dam earned hers.


----------



## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

Hello. Just wanted to chime in to thank Calistar and everyone else for taking the time to explain all this. I too am finding goat paperwork generally confusing, and am trying to slowly wrap my head around how all the record keeping works. Thanks for helping me understand the milk star stuff a little bit better!


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Thank you so so much! If it wasn't for you I probably wouldn't even be considering milk testing right now.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

You're both welcome! Once you're actually signed up, the monthly tests are pretty straightforward! But everything up until that point is way more complex and confusing than it needs to be and unfortunately I think it scares a lot of people off!


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

I am so glad you asked that question about the does and milking stars being retro'd if they get a star later.

I will have a first freshener whose mom had a 6*M and grand dams and all grand sires/sire all had *stars etc ..She will be bred to our *B buck who family lines also all have stars etc.. 
What would happen to her first batch of bucklings since she was a ff ? She Obviously won't have her 7*M when she first gives birth.. So do the bucklings also get their *B stars awarded once the ff gets her 7*M?
I've noticed many breeders just wether all bucklings from a ff.


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

That's correct, her sons would retroactively get their *B if their dam earns her star in volume AND butterfat. 

Many breeders will wether bucks out of a ff automatically, like you said. A first freshener hasn't had a chance to prove herself or to show that she will hold up well. My best milker is a ff with a beautiful huge udder, and I bred her to a *B buck with an impressive show/milking pedigree. She gave me two doelings and a really nice buckling....but I wethered him anyway. I want to make sure that beautiful huge udder will hold up through subsequent freshenings before I decide to keep a buckling out of her! That's the thinking behind many choosing to wether kids out of ff's. Then again, some breeders know their lines very well and feel confident keeping bucks out of unproven does. I am not one of them


----------



## Gooseberry Creek (Jun 3, 2020)

Thank you. That is so nice of you to share all your knowledge with us! 
That makes sense about the breeders wanting to make sure the udders and other milk traits hold up. 
I am sure some breeders want to keep their genetics close as well before selling off their intact bucklings. It seems like once the bucklings have their *B they are worth more than being sold without the star for much less $ ..then the buyer would get the star later once the ff earns her *M lol.


----------



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

If a doe receives her star, does the ADGA automatically update their name or do we have to reach out to them? 
Thank you so much, you’ve been an AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING help! :squish::ty:


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

CaramelKittey said:


> If a doe receives her star, does the ADGA automatically update their name or do we have to reach out to them?
> Thank you so much, you've been an AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING help! :squish::ty:


I believe if you're on the AR plan, the processing center sends the records to ADGA for you. I'm not 100% positive though. With the ST plan, you have to send the doe pages to ADGA at the end of the goat's lactation.

I'm planning on doing one last test in a couple of weeks and drying my does off by the end of December, so it's coming up for me! I'm still waiting for my DHIA to sign my verification test and send it to ADGA though. (Have I mentioned that I don't recommend DHIA West?  )


----------

