# Mini-Nubian Udders (Opinions Please)



## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

We're looking to purchase a registered Mini-Nubian from somebody local who is in milk. 

She took some pictures of her udders and sent them to us. Now I'm not used to seeing mini/dwarf udders so I'm not sure if what I'm looking at is normal but our Full Size Nubian's udders are more "pointy". 

Do these udders look ok/good? Thanks for the opinions.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

No, that udder doesnt look good. It is severely lop sided. Either due to leaving a single kid on her or a previous mastitis infection. The over all udder attachment isnt that great either. Nicer fore udder but the rest... not so much.


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm thinking about what her udders look like for practical milking purposes. She's 5 years old now and hasn't had any health problems in the past year so I'll guess you're right about one of the two issues.

I'm mostly wondering about the shape of the teats but rear udder attachment is slightly important too. Is the teat shape and udder attachment a breeding issue? How easy is it to breed better genetics in?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Shape of teats looks fine to me. The placement is off. 

What is your ultimate goal? If you just want a goat in milk, then she will probably do just fine. Not sure if the lopsidedness is just the picture angle or she really is.


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Shape of teats looks fine to me. The placement is off.
> 
> What is your ultimate goal? If you just want a goat in milk, then she will probably do just fine. Not sure if the lopsidedness is just the picture angle or she really is.


Ultimately we would like to have a goat in milk for our small farm (yes) and a breeder doe for our farm. Maybe breed in Mini-Nubians? We have a Nubian doe right now we'll be breeding to a Nubian Buck but next year we may breed to a Nigerian.

The one for sale is "proven to give twins" over the past few years and is bred to a Nubian buck now. It would be nice to have twins next year from her.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

A well attached udder is important for good milk production and capacity... this does udder will only get worse with each freshening, a good udder will not look like an upside down heart 

Even for just getting a doe for the family milk supply, you'd want to be comfortable milking her and not want her teats too low due to bad attachments, health as well as cleanliness should be considered and you'll want room between your hands and the milk pail as you milk... not her teats in the pail.
She is unevenly filled, either due from a single kid or a case of mastitis.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Here's my opinion. The others have covered the conformation of the udder. But. My take is that even if you just want a family milk goat, you still need to breed them every year for milk. I feel that just because you aren't showing or anything doesn't mean you can't have a conformationally correct goat. I get mad when people say "Oh, conformation doen't matter, she's just a family milker" Well you will still be breeding her and putting more conformationally uncorrect goats out there. Wether you are breeding for fun, milking, showing, whatever, you should still strive to improve the breed, not worsen it.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

The attachments and teats are poor. The teats should be plumb and well defined from the udder. The rear attachments sag, the udder is lopsided (if left like that too long it can mess up her udder forever), the arch isn't very good, and the fore udder could be stronger. Even an udder with "welded on" attachments will get weaker with each freshening.


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

Wow.... is she really that bad? What about the overall appearance of her? She's 50/50 Nubian/Nigerian Dwarf Cross. She's 5 years old and is giving over a quart per day right now. 

Here are two other pictures. Don't mind the water. It's been very raining here this year.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I would personally look else where.


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

If you want her, then that's what counts. It is always up to you to make the final decision. Good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She is cute and flashy. Ultimately you have to decide what is best for your farm.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

simeo said:


> Wow.... is she really that bad? What about the overall appearance of her? She's 50/50 Nubian/Nigerian Dwarf Cross. She's 5 years old and is giving over a quart per day right now.
> 
> Here are two other pictures. Don't mind the water. It's been very raining here this year.


She is VERY cute.

My mini nubian doe, 5th or 6th generation but with 50/50 genetics, had a very similar udder when i got her two years ago. She was about 6, so she is getting up there and her udder is not holding up at all. partially that is due to the management of her previous owner. I lost an entire half of her udder due to the scar tissue she had on one side from before I got her. I have been breeding her to a buck whose dam has a MUCH stronger hind udder and better teats, and i am keeping her doeling from this kidding and breeding her again in hopes of getting a second in spite of her poor udder because she is around 8 years old with half an udder and is still giving me over half a gallon of delicious milk a day (I call it "husband quality milk" because it is good enough my husband will drink it without adding chocolate, lol). If she were giving me anything less than that I wouldn't bother with her OR with her kids.

Being as flashy and cute as she is I bet her kids would sell ok even just as pets. So if you really like her and want her that is what really matters. But if you are looking for milk, strong udders, to show, etc. I'd keep looking.

edit to add: the doeling I am keeping from my mini nubian is the brown moonspotted one in the middle of my signature picture. She is polled, too. I sure hope she milks like her mom!!!


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks for all your input. The jury is still out on her. We would like to register and sell about 4-6 generations from now. The buck she's bred to had, we're told, better genes and one of her daughters from last years kidding is for sale as well. Again, we're told she has udders with a much better attachment.

I didn't want to bug the poor lady over the phone because I had already run though the long list of:

"Why are you selling her? (We only have space for 4-5 goats and we have too many)
"Is she registered?" (Yes, we have papers.) 
"What % Nubian, Nigerian Dwarf?" (She's 1st gen Mini-Nubian. 50/50)
"Is your herd CL/CAE/Johnes Free?" (Yes) 
"When was the last blood test?" (April/May) 
"What's your worming schedule?" (We use Molly's Herbals once per week, plus check fecals regularly for Chem wormers)
"What is her temperament?" (Good mother. Doesn't like small dogs. Good with livestock guardians. Likes people. Etc, etc) 
"Do you have any of her kids on site?" (Yes, in fact one is for sale) 
"Has she been in heat yet?" (Yes, she was in heat 3 weeks ago and I exposed her to my Nubian buck)
"Is she still in milk?" (Yes, she's giving 4-6 cups per day. I've been trying to dry her up because I don't need all milk. I have another milker giving me all I need. She doesn't seem to want to dry up though.)

And I asked her a few other husbandry questions I could remember off the top of my head.

Then I asked her.... "By the way, how are her udders?" (Well.... they aren't great looking udders. Her kid has better udders and my other has better udders.) "Ok, I need a picture of them." (Ok I'll send you a picture when I milk her tonight.)

That was yesterday. My wife told me she's fine with the udders (she's the milker) but I told her to milk her when we go tomorrow. I'd like to physically see her attachments, ask about mastitis in the past (which some of y'all brought up), and take a look at her kids (most importantly) We may end up getting her other goat but I know we need to see her in person. The big plus for her *is* "she's flashy". That flashiness would help to sell kids to locals looking for pets they'd like to milk (pretty common around here).

I would need to concentrate on breeding in MUCH better udders though. How probable is that? How long does it take to breed in good udders?

Are there any other questions I should ask?

Only one local farm has mini-nubians and they're selling yearlings at $300-$500. Only the $500 have "show quality udders" in their line. I can't afford $500 for awesome udders, but I do have access to breeding in awesome udders from a friend with show quality ADGA Nubian bucks.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

How much is she asking? Personally, she is pet quality, because of her udders.


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> How much is she asking? Personally, she is pet quality, because of her udders.


She was asking $200. I told her $150 if we buy.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Not to be a grammar nazi but its udder.  Though I like to irritate my other half and call it a sack or boobs. Oh she hates that hehe

On a side note, you can breed into a better udder pretty quick. See if the lady has this milking does mom (dam) and or her grandma (grand dam) on site. You can get a good idea of udder quality by seeing their udders. Yes I know I said udders but I was speaking of more then one  lol!

Also, the thinking ahead about being able to sell better because of color is smart. Maybe some more pictures of her would give us a chance to point out some good things with her.


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> Not to be a grammar nazi but its udder.  Though I like to irritate my other half and call it a sack or boobs. Oh she hates that hehe


:hammer:


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## kbluebkeman (Jul 22, 2013)

I wanted to do what the previous poster and highlight the "grammar Nazi" bit but I don't know how to work this site well enough.....but it cracked me up......but I agree I like the proper terminology......I started to give some examples and then decided I would behave myself.....lol.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

kbluebkeman said:


> I wanted to do what the previous poster and highlight the "grammar Nazi" bit but I don't know how to work this site well enough.....but it cracked me up......but I agree I like the proper terminology......I started to give some examples and then decided I would behave myself.....lol.


just click the quote button to the right side of the post you wanna quote


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> Not to be a grammar nazi but its udder.


Oh shut up 

hehe


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

hehe


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

We did not get the girl. We were going to take a look at her udders in person and see for ourselves but then we realized the person with her is over 2 hours away from us. 

Not worth it for us to drive and check things out. Thank you for all your opinions and input.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

Just curious to know... WHY do people waste all that time and the sellers time and not check out how far the animal is before you inquire?

I have that happen all the time or people will say, "well.. I'll give you this much since I have to travel X miles and spend X amount to pick him up". 
In which my response is always, "you should find something closer in your budget".


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

farmchick897 said:


> Just curious to know... WHY do people waste all that time and the sellers time and not check out how far the animal is before you inquire?
> 
> I have that happen all the time or people will say, "well.. I'll give you this much since I have to travel X miles and spend X amount to pick him up".
> In which my response is always, "you should find something closer in your budget".


It was miscommunication on our first phone call. She told me she was "toward Athens". Well North of Athens for me is 30 minutes, South of Athens is 1.5 hours. Her actual location was close to 2.5 hours from me. I didn't ask address because we weren't going to pick up/look at the goat until two days from the original time and I'm a man, dealing with a woman, I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable with me having her address for a few days. Blah blah blah

Instead of Athens, she should have told me "Oh, we're in Madison." Then I would have said "Oh..... I see.... "


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ya I have had that happen. Just a few months ago I had a buyer ask for a health certificate to get into California with their new pack goat prospects they bought. So had it done for the tune of $90 and met the buyer about 4 hours away from where I live (Washington) down into Oregon. When I tell the buyer the health cert was 90 bucks, he was all like WHAT? Well if I woulda know it was going to cost me money I wouldnt of got it... I almost put the goats back into my truck and left. But after I reminded him HE requested it and that I took a day off of work to bring them to him, loosing a 150.00 pay and only charging him for the gas, he changed his tune. He didnt like it but he paid it.

The best thing, they didnt even ask for his papers when he crossed the boarder. They just waved him through


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## Plumpers (Sep 8, 2013)

Ya that to me would not be the best choice for all of the reasons previously stated, sorry


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