# Dog Advice



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Hello everyone!

I get such good advice here I want to seek out advice about my dog.

I have had Tucker, our home guardian dog for 2.5 years now. I adopted him as an adult from the Humane Society.

Tucker has been a great companion for all our livestock. Gentle with animals yet aggressively barks at strangers. Ducks, chickens, baby goats, etc have all climbed all over him and he just lays there tongue lolling. 

He does chase and attack rats and toads.

Day before yesterday Tucker attacked an adult male muscovy duck. This duck had been under the weather for a few days, so I chalked it up to him thinking it was sick or injured and his drive kicked in.

Today Tucker attacked and killed my patriarch of the ducks. A very large and healthy muscovy male. This duck was at least 20 pounds.

So here is what I cannot do.

I cannot tie up Tucker. He is a property guardian. He needs to be able to patrol. We live in a high risk area for burglary, livestock theft, rape, drugs, etc. Yes we live in the "country" but nearby is a known meth house. Country here is a bit different than the rest of the US. Here the homeless and drug addicts squat in vacant lots and so I don't ever leave my property perimeter without a weapon or a large dog.

THAT SAID.

I am not sure if I can confine the ducks. And what is next? Chickens? Goats? This is very worrisome. I would rather train him to not do this, but I really don't know how to go about doing that as I can't confine him.

Today I will work on clipping duck wings and putting them behind the fence with the goats, but if I take away their flight... and they did get back into the yard, does that make them easier targets for him?

I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I very much enjoy duck keeping, but at the same time I cannot commit them to possible torture at the jaws of my dog. That is unacceptable obviously.

I feel really stuck and need help/advice.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, I know this sounds so ridiculous but I have heard many many times. Tie the dead duck to the dogs color for three days and he will never touch another one. 

I normally would never subscribe to something so "old school". I'm really in to modern force free dog behavior modification but in your particular circumstances I figured I would throw that out there! 

Otherwise I think containing the ducks is the only solution. 

Is it possible the ducks were getting into Tucker's food and that is what caused this?

I wouldn't assume he would move on to chickens or goats at this point. Dogs don't usually generalize.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I googled the problem and that was the suggestion I kept running into again and again. Sounds so weird! I wonder why it might work?

I'm having Steve (hubby) pick up a toy on his way home. We have an unbreakoball and a large kong out there for him, and a few balls. But maybe he's bored. I'll also worm him in case it's a stomach issue.

This is just so out of the ordinary for him.

And no, he gets fed inside the lanai (because the ducks try to steal his food).


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Sorry about the duck. Saltey's method may be ole school, but it might just work. I've known folks that did the same for dogs that killed chickens. It's unpleasant but often effective. 

Personally, I would not clip the ducks wings. If this was not a fluke thing with Tucker, (his food) and his next catch is easier, there will be no stopping him...IMO

What breed is Tucker and is he the only Dog? These things can make a difference on more corrective training methods.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I have three dogs, Tucker is 100% outside. My other two dogs live inside and just go out to pee. Out and right back in. My GSD killed chickens in Alaska so she's never allowed out unattended. EVER. My jack russel is a high prey dog so she is only allowed out on a leash.

Tucker is a rott/pitt/something maybe GSD mix. He's a black and tan with a blocky head and some husky/gsd type thick fur in areas. lol An 85 pound mutt.


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

I don't know if it is possible to break the dog of it- sorry you are in that position. The breed combination of the dog is worrisome for livestock. Lots of high prey drive there... If you had a few days to observe him all day, I would use a shocking collar every time he takes chase. It might work if you catch him now. My great grandfather swore by the fowl necklace. He was usually right so IDK... Good luck!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> Okay, I know this sounds so ridiculous but I have heard many many times. Tie the dead duck to the dogs color for three days and he will never touch another one.


If you decided to go this route, make sure you wrap the duck in bird netting or something and tie it very firmly around his neck. When my dog got a chicken tied around his neck, he simply ate it off. It was later that I found the above advice.



FreedomStarr said:


> I don't know if it is possible to break the dog of it- sorry you are in that position. The breed combination of the dog is worrisome for livestock. Lots of high prey drive there... If you had a few days to observe him all day, I would use a shocking collar every time he takes chase. It might work if you catch him now. My great grandfather swore by the fowl necklace. He was usually right so IDK... Good luck!


I would go by the shock collar if you can supervise him with it on for a day or two. However, please really, REALLY read up on the use of them-so many problems have come from them that I cringe every time someone says they are going to use one and haven't done their research. For one thing, you have to leave it on for about a week before using it so that he has forgotten that he is wearing it. Otherwise, he will simply go after them as soon as you take it off.

Good luck!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Try tying the carcass to him , wrapped up like Ranger1 suggested.
If you decide to do the E collar , have Tucker on a lead or long line just in case his reaction to the shock/vibration is to run , cause he just may keep running if he can get off the property. Do get him used to wearing the E collar , like mentioned . Tucker needs to think the shock/vibration is coming from God himself and nothing else.


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

This may sound weird, but as a stopgap measure have you considered putting a muzzle on him, especially at night or when you can't watch him?
He would still be able to bark and drive away intruders or predators but he wouldn't be (quite) as effective as a predator.
Just a thought ...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

If I need to I would consider a basket muzzle at night. But the ducks roost at night so I want him able to hunt rats.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

When our Great Dane started playing with the ducks..although a pup still, we couldnot have that...he ended up killing one..i took him out daily to be among the ducks and chickens...when he went after them I gave a stern command and made him go sit in the yard while I stayed in with the ducks...then I let him back in with us after a short sit...hes not gone after them again....Timothy has a very pleasing persoanlity so it bothered him to have to sit in the yard while I wasn acting mad at him ...He is also just now 9 months old ( 100+ #!!) so a puppy in training...but it mighthelp your dog as well..
some things I dont like about tieing the duck on his neck are...the smell of course but, health wise.. bacteria can not be good and if he gets snagged, panics and hurts himself...ph plus the smell lol


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I hear ya on the tying bit , but sometimes old school things do work , in their own sort of crazy way…..

One of my Border Collies has a duck/chicken fetish and can't be trusted with them. Its just in his blood , he doesn't bother any of the other animals , even my cats ! But its something about the ducks….
They aren't the brightest bulbs though , they used to walk right up to him ! He would grab one and the others would just sit there watching !
He has gotten much better about them , and now that the smartest ones lived , they avoid him . But i would never trust him unsupervised around them. With your dog , i think there were circumstances surrounding the killings and it may never surface again. Im really hoping thats what it is and Tucker doesn't bother them again.


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## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

My grandfather in law still uses that same practice of tying the dead animal to the collar. But along with that he doesn't not give the dog any attention at all during the time the dog has the dead animal tied around his neck. He will feed the dog but he will place the food somewhere the dog will find it and not just walk up to him and give him his food. I had a dog do this before and I know this sounds harsh hut I assure you she wasn't hurt. She was about a year and a half did great with any kind of animal bwsides squirells but one day she killed a momma hen and a rooster. After that every time she came close to a chicken I shot a pellet gun without the pellet right next to her head. The noise scared her and probably agitated her ear. Then I waited and did it again. After 4 times I didn't have to do it near her I would just stand on the porch and shoot it.it had no pellets in it so there was no harm done but my girl hasn't touched a chicken since.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

First off, the breed isn't good to be around other animals unsupervised. He isn't a LGD.

With that said, I would keep the ducks in a different area or not have them at all, I hate to say.

Disciplining the dog by using a shock collar, even if the dog gets too close to the duck helps. 
He must be watched 24/7 or separated from any animals I hate to say, because of the breed. Not a good combination.
Once he killed and if he was not disciplined at the time of doing it, he will continue to do it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

def. pen ducks and all animals seperate...I know you need the guard dog ...so he should be able to roam the yard..proctecting the house..but not near the animals..


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I have started and discarded about 6 messages to this thread. LOL I have sort of the same dilemma with almost the same breeding....I just have rhodesian instead of rottie in my mix. I know a LOT of old timers who use the dead bird tied to the collar routine and they swear by it. I never did it because the dogs were always pets and to have a rotting bird around their necks just didn't work for me. LOL 

The shock collar is a fantastic tool for temporary use. However....it really does require that you be with the dog 100% of the time that it is with the "target" animal. If your dog is very smart at all, it will figure out quickly that when you aren't around, there is no shock. I had a boxer mix that never figured that out....but he was about as dumb as they come. LOL I just don't think for a dog that is outside and in the vicinity of the animals even when you aren't there, it won't be a good long term solution. HOWEVER....it could be that one or 2 zaps and he avoids ducks like the plague too! 

My dog goes after cats....or more specifically ONE cat. And it's not all the time. I haven't figured out the trigger yet either. She will go after the barn cats if they run, but if they stand their ground, she ignores them. She will run thru the middle of the entire flock of birds and not enough glance at them scattering. Wild turkeys, tame chickens, etc in the yard and she won't chase the darned things out of my yard even! 

There is something about the ducks that is triggering him. It could have been that the 1st one was sick and the 2nd was just easy after the 1st. Don't clip wings cause then your ducks are "sitting ducks" for all predators. Keeping the ducks locked up away from Tucker is probably your best bet unless you can figure out "why". If you are going to be out there with him, then maybe have them loose and seriously reinforce that he isn't to go after them any time he even looks at them. 

Be extra careful not to do anything with the ducks when he is around. My Keela will try and "help" us catch chickens, goats, etc when she normally wouldn't even look at them. She isn't very much "help" in those situations to say the least. LOL 

Good luck.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

He is very smart and listens really well which is why this is so confusing. When I first got chickens, he ignored them, they chased them. I told him no and gave him a dirty look. You could see his face drop and he never ever has chased a chicken since.

He doesn't chase cats, or wild birds. He doesn't chase the rabbit I have in the yard. He doesn't chase the guinea pigs I let free range.

Just these couple ducks so far. I think that if I can show him the disapproval he needs to know he's not supposed to it'll be okay. But I'm not sure how to "catch" him doing something I've only seen one time. The other duck I found with a pile of feathers around him, it was Tucker feeding time, so Tucker left the duck for his food. I actually am not sure if I might have unknowingly REINFORCED his duck killing that day. The duck is still alive in the lanai and getting better and stronger even though missing some breast tissue.

Steve said last night if Tucker kills another duck he's going to shoot him. I doubt that's the case, my husband is a gentle animal lover and I think he was just "spouting off" his frustration. But it makes me understand just how much this is affecting him. He LOVES those ducks. He sits with the hurt duck in the lanai every morning before work and every night and hand feeds him treats. He named the ducks. I would get rid of them today if it was just me.

I have too freaking much stress to be dealing with this right now. 

Tucker is killing ducks.
Myra is whatever, sick? Disadvantaged?
My kiddo at college on another Island is very sick.
I have a new baby goat.
I have a doe due in 2 weeks.
I just started a new "job" to help pay for Myras care.
the goats keep escaping the fence that I can't afford to replace so I just repair it.... daily.
I have a dog in heat that's getting spayed next month (thank goodness never had a dog in heat before)

Granted, I know things can be a lot worse. I remember when my Mom was dying, this stuff wouldn't have been stressful at all. But I feel like I've got toooooo much for my brain to do at once to deal now with a dog that is killing my husbands pets.

Today I will reinforce the goat fence in the front nearest the house and will stick the ducks behind that fence. They can fly.... well some can others are to fat haha. So I don't know if they'll STAY behind the fence.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you do have alot on your plate Dayna...take one problem at a time and as needed. Try sitting with the ducks and you dog and everytime he looks at them..firmly redirect him...its hard...but he needs to be trustworthy....


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I got out the bear spray and my guns. I locked Tucker up. I need a couple days to get this taken care. Hopefully the bad people just think Tucker is in the back when they drive/walk by the property and don't see him. I just can't stand the thought of him killing another duck while I work on the fence and I have so freaking much to do.

So he's in the old macaw aviary, its the size of one of those chain link dog runs. lol The walk in cage I had in Alaska. Its under cover, I put water in there and his kong stuffed with bananas and a coconut to play with/chew on. I fed him. He's set. He's unhappy but all his needs are taken care of.

I'll just carry the bear spray on me while being out on the property alone, gun is in the kitchen.

I know this sounds silly but tweaked out meth heads can be very dangerous and they are terrified of my big black dog. So if they don't see him, I'm worried they will think it's a free for all.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh I Understand....if you are with the dog...he could walk with you by your side...


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Sorry Dayna. I know that feeling of being overwhelmed. You are an awesome lady and I bet you can handle just about anything. Just pace yourself and try to focus on one task at a time. It's amazing how much we can get done when we really feel like everything is in chaos. Most important...take care of yourself first. 

Poor Tucker. Is there anyway you can keep him on a leash by your side while you are working? I would hate his anxiety away from you, leading to more bad behavior. I understand about the Ducks. I raise them too and have to keep them safe from my own dogs(12). However....Your safety must come first.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh Dayna, I know times are tough now. I am praying, it gets better soon. 

I hear your husband loves the ducks, so have him work with you on what to do about this situation.
Only if you can keep the ducks away from the dog on the opposite side of the fence, clipping their wings may be a good option and the easiest for your situation.

I know you need the dog for security, so finding him another home, may not be an option either.
It is a tough situation, but something needs to give somewhere unfortunately.

There is no reason why, you can't have the dog with you, when you are out and about. I would be Leary too in that situation, your safety is important too. 
Any way to lock up the ducks at all, while you are out and about with fence work? Or tie him as you go?

I feel your anguish and hope things get better.


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