# Getting/Keeping Weight on Heavy Milkers - Ideas?



## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Okay, thoughts and ideas wanted!  How do y'all get weight (and maintain it) on your heavy milkers? What feed(s) do you use, and why? What protein/fat content works best for you? 

I am currently trying to find yet another feed that helps get weight on my does. I had been using a 16%/5% sweet feed mix with three tablespoons of sunflower oil per doe, with free-choice alfalfa pellets, coastal hay, and beet pulp. 
I am also offering free-choice sea-kelp, and baking soda. They get five to seven ccs of Replamin Plus Gel once a week.
I would be feeding alfalfa hay, but there is not a good supply 'round here, and it is INSANELY expensive! :GAAH:

I have one doe who looks really, really bad right now. She is a super picky eater and has always been like that (she refused the bottle when she was younger, and ended up being slightly underweight for breeding). She has kidded twice in two years, and has never been that bulky anyways. She truly does look awful. I can count her ribs, and yet she refuses to do more than nibble at her feed! I started drenching her with sunflower oil (not enough to upset her stomach), and that seemed to help a bit. Her coat is also very rough, and she has flaky skin. Her eyelid and gum color is good, and she does not have a high cocci or worm level. She has a fishtail, and has had one ever since she was three months old. I have copper bolused her, given her BOSS, and several different types of minerals, both free choice and now the Replamin. I am at my wits end with her! Does in her line are generally hard keepers, very dairy, and slow to mature, but she takes it to the extreme.
I am considering selling her, because of this. But she has a gorgeous udder and good conformation, so I am really reluctant to do so.
I attached a photo of her this year before kidding. She looked the best she ever has then. She should be around 160 pounds in good condition, but is currently around 130. Drives me crazy.:ram: She does have a raised dorsal process, so she sometimes looks bonier that she actually is.

I did do fecals on her, and had a vet do them, just in case I missed something. No known problems, other than she won't stay in good condition. I will be re-testing her for CAE/CL. 


So, ideas, thoughts, ect.? :book: I would love to hear what you are feeding! :greengrin:


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Following this to see what other say...I have a 5 year old doe that is the same way, I can hardly get her to gain weight and when she does she gets sick super easy and loses it again!
I hope you don't have to sell Chant!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Does like this drive me CRAZY!! :hair::brickwall:

Same here... If I do, I want at least one doe out of her! I am breeding her to a Freelance son this year.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Have you tried growing fodder? That's supposed to be very good. 

My mom has one who sounds the same as yours though she does eat her grain. Her BCS is never better than about 2.5 and usually a 2. She has very long hair so I can't see her ribs but I am certain they would all be showing. (We'd probably have been turned in for animal abuse before now too if she had short hair.) She has been this was since the day we bought her four years ago. She acts fine, milks wonderfully, kids easily, etc. so we just keep her. She also has dry skin and a rough coat though BOSS did help some with that. And no I don't feed her fodder. Maybe I should follow my own advice, eh? LOL


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow... free choice alfalfa pellets and beet pulp, no goat should be thin on that, but any chance that amount of calcium could be counterproductive? Maybe she needs more carbs and fats? 

How long have you been doing the Replamin for? And is she CAE, CL, and Johnes negative?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok, I'm going to give you some wizardly advice here :lol: Get a jar of rumen boluses http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Rumen-Yeast-Caps/464-42.html. Open one up when you get it, and down the hatch, do another in a couple days, and then again in another couple days.

Now for the interrogation! :lol:

1) How is her water consumption? If poor I would recommend Bluelite electrolyte mix, or Kool-Aid in the tropical punch flavor. 2-4 scoops per 5 gallon bucket depending on how sweet yours like it. 
In a little over 2 months one of my does has gained almost 60lbs since rumen boluses, Bluelite and Kool-Aid, she was almost dead, and now is doing quite well, still more to gain, but worlds better.

2) How many pounds of grain does she get per gallon she milks? I usually do 3lbs per gallon they milk. 
But you said it's a sweet feed, so that opens a new can of worms. Sweet feeds are high molasses = high iron and kills of rumen flora. High iron binds copper, so that would explain the fish tail if you're pushing the feed to her, and the poor eating points to poor digestion from loss of flora

3) Dry skin, hair loss, rough coat, lack of shine etc. Give a vitamin E shot. I usually do vitamin ad-e 300.

4) Fish tail. Again give vitamin E. Selenium is probably messing with the copper, so give some E and that will fix the selenium thing so she can use her copper. Don't ask me for the science behind that, all I know is that after I gave some E to my doe with a chronic fish tail, her hair came back.

5) Lack of condition. Fix the flora with a bolus, get her drinking more by enticing her, give some E for the coat and fishtail, back off on the sweet feed. Try DRY cob, or barley. You can even replace her entire grain ration with the cob or barley. It will put the fat right on her. I really recommend barley, and some of my does only eat dry cob if they don't like a textured grain, or can't handle that much molasses. 
Alfalfa hay definitely helps, but mine are eating stock hay right now :lol:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

It's really hard to see her cause the pic is kinda dark, she looks ok to me but you know her best.
I have an older % doe who was looking pretty run down with trips on her. I pulled the kids & started giving her coconut oil every other day; a good heaping couple of tablespoons. She looks great now but it took a few of months.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Ranger1, no, I have not tried growing fodder. I do try and plant haygrazer and oats, but this year all my haygrazer got drowned after the flooding. :sigh: Your mom's doe sounds a lot like mine. I look at her every day and cringe as I offer her everything under the sun. I did try feeding her alfalfa hay earlier this year, she picked through it a bit, sneezed, and wandered off. :sigh: 

SalteyLove, I am trying to get her eating more carbs and fats. She turns up her nose at it. I am getting her to eat around one cup of 16% protein and 5% fat sweet feed absolutely drenched in sunflower oil per day. 

She has been getting Replamin since she was three months old, and since then I have tried various minerals and supplements trying to cure her of her constant copper deficiency. She tested negative for CAE and CL last year, along with every other member of my herd, and has not been exposed to other possible positive animals since then. I will be getting results back from her latest test soon. 
I don't even bother to test for Johnes. There is an organism of some sort in TX soil that can cause false positives. We had a cow that tested positive for it for years, and when moved off of the general area, she was negative within weeks. We spent sooo much time and money on that animal, only to have it be a false positive! Scared me pretty good, but thank goodness it all worked out. So it is pretty much pointless for me to do that, and I highly doubt she would have it either way. 

One thing I should probably mention is that this doe is averaging two gallons a day right now, despite my best efforts to dry her up. She puts everything into milk, and if I cut of feed completely when I try to dry her up she starts looking even worse.

Other than the fact that she is always copper deficient, and looks like I am starving her, she is very much healthy. She has kidded twice with big sets of twins, no problem, and milks very well. 

Wish there was some way to dry her up! If she does not gain a whole lot of weight in the next year or so, I will be leaving her dry until she does.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

LBNP, thanks!

Her water intake is excellent. In the past, I have wondered if she drank too much water, and that affected her appetite. She used to sit in front of the water trough all day long.

Believe it or not, I have tried the rumen boluses! I did them early this year, when I was trying to get more weight on her before she kidded. They did not have an noticeable difference, and she picked at her feed (this was when she was actually eating well) for several days. I will likely try them again, though. They worked well on one of my other super heavy milkers. But that doe will eat everything - I repeat, everything!

I believe the sweet feed has a fairly low molasses content, but I will double check. When I first started feeding it, I checked the iron content and combined with the high copper content of my minerals/feed, it about balanced out. But she is a dark, almost black doe, and I know that they can need almost fifty percent more copper than paler coated animals.
I am giving her Vit. E. However, it has been on and off for several weeks now, I pulled a muscle in my lower back and trying to force the paste down her throat is extremely painful. 

I will look into the cob and barley. They sound great! And then again, she might refuse them as well. Either way, if I can find them, I will likely try them on my herd.


Nancy D, wow, your doe is officially one of the weirdest goats I have ever heard of! :lol: I have one doe who likes it; the others look at me like I've gone nuts whenever I offer it to them. I should probably try drenching her with it, though. 


She's such a hard keeper. She just doesn't like feed! 
Anyways, thanks, y'all for your ideas and suggestions! I greatly appreciate them. Now, off to shop for feed... Another couple hundred gone! :lol:


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## Griswoldcreekpygmies (Aug 19, 2015)

I fed my one doe who got super skinny and had an awful coat (you could see her skin it was so thin) calf manna and alfalfa pellets in combination to her grain...she was not much of and "eater" either , but I found if I split it up into 3 feedings a day instead of 2 she ate more. I also found good quality alfalfa , because she will go for her hay over her grain any day.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Try a vitamin e injection, lasts much longer and results are much quicker. And do try the cob, none of my goats have ever turned it down! But do feed more than a cup, at least 4 cups per milking, work up to it. 
If you go the barley route, that should work very well as it's very high TDN, so it's used better, and puts a hard fat on, not the giggly kind. 

As for the rest of it, interesting.... the boluses sure worked for my doe. Fantastic appetite and water consumption now, hence the almost 60lbs she's gained, getting her off death's doorstep! 

Now for drying her up, are you milking only halfway out every other milking? Or milking once every couple milkings? Sometimes with mine, I just have to let them stay bagged for a day or two, milk out, go a few more days, milk out, go about a week or more, milk out and dry treat them leave them alone and wait for it to reabsorb it. The longer timed pressure in the udder will tell her she's milking too much, slow down.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What rumen bolus did you use?


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

Well we have roughly the opposite problem. All of our animals seem to put on a nice protective layer and keep it on. This is what they get, hope it helps.

My goats (Mainly Nigerian Dwarf) get twice a day:
1 cup grain (16% allstock sweet feed - Tractor Supply brand)
1/2 cup alfalfa pellets

Free choice pasture, coastal hay, goat mineral, baking soda, water. I do put a splash of ACV in the water. 

Quite a bit of left overs and bread that is not as fresh as the humans would like. Horse treats. Also about once a week my husband will buy them a box of Triscuits. Yeah, they're spoiled.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

ksalvagno, I used the same ones that LPBNP linked back to. :wink: 

LBNP, I have been unable to get her down to less than one milking per day. I did try that, and she started leaking milk like crazy, couldn't lay down, and her udder started showing signs of mastitis. She has a fairly small udder - when she first freshens I was having to milk her three times per day. 
I am trying to get her eating more. She sits there for ages and picks at the one cup I do manage to get down her, and sometimes leaves it there completely. 

I will try an injection. Frankly, I am a bit hesitant to be handling needles right now. :lol: I feel like someone shot me in my lower back, and Miss Attitude here is not the calmest goat I have ever met. :lol:

AncientBlue, thank you!  Your TSC has a 16% all-stock feed?! Lucky!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you give a bolus 2 to 3 days in a row? That bolus works great for my hard keeper. Where is she in herd placement? I actually put my hard keeper by herself every night so she doesn't have to fight for food. She is the lowest in the herd and just won't fight back.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

I gave her one two days in a row, then waited a day and gave her another. One week later, gave her the last one. 
She is actually second in command. Her mom is the herd queen, and lets her beat up all the others and have first choice for feed. But since I feed everyone their grain separate, I don't have to worry about that. And alfalfa, beet pulp and hay are free choice. The doe who is lowest on the pecking order is actually the fattest, LOL!


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## GCKRanch (May 27, 2014)

We gave ours Black Oil Sunflower Seeds (you can get it as a bird food at tractor supply) and Calf Manna to put some weight back on. I ended up mixing it with their grain. The sunflower seeds are mainly fat, and Calf Manna has been used for years for weight gain.


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

Ok I am sooooo buying this rumen bolus stuff!! Thanks for the link btw


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I had very good luck with Nutrena Empower Boost and Nutrena ProForce Fuel added to their 18% goat feed, BOSS, Forage Extender.. I have a doe that is a hard keeper and always has been, even worse now in milk, and that put weight on her fairly quickly! Along with chopped alfalfa here and there too  and she is a picky eater to boot.. Took her a few days to really start eating it, but she's looking much better now!


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

thegoatgirl said:


> ksalvagno, I used the same ones that LPBNP linked back to. :wink:
> 
> LBNP, I have been unable to get her down to less than one milking per day. I did try that, and she started leaking milk like crazy, couldn't lay down, and her udder started showing signs of mastitis. She has a fairly small udder - when she first freshens I was having to milk her three times per day.
> I am trying to get her eating more. She sits there for ages and picks at the one cup I do manage to get down her, and sometimes leaves it there completely.
> ...


I am having the exact same problem with one of mine, won't put on weight as fast as I'd like and squirts milk when too full...How am I going to dry her off?? (I'm more worried about drying her off b/c she is _finally_ putting on some weight...)
BTW, she is my herd queen as well...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I know it's bad to let them squirt milk, but sometimes you have to let them, or tape their teats. They only stream milk long enough to get the pressure down before they orifices close again. For her, with susceptibility to mastitis, let her leak. It will relieve pressure, and still tell her she's making too much. Or dry treat and tape her up.

Or you can ask the vet for some dry up shots.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Or you can ask the vet for some dry up shots.


Would you mind giving me a little bit more info on the shots? I would prefer not to use them, but at this rate I may have to.
Are there any specific types? What is a fair price for them? What exactly do they do?
I did a search on them, and came up with pretty much zero info. :lol: :eyeroll: My search engine sucks.

Also, what do you think of wheat germ oil? It has tons of Vit. E, and supposedly is good for getting weight on does. I am thinking about buying a gallon and trying it out...
http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Wheat-Germ-Oil/500-1720.html


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

1cc of Furosemide for 3 days. Brand name is Lasix. It helps inhibit lactation. No idea what the going rate for it is though, or if there is a better drug out there these days for drying up a doe. 

I've never used the wheat germ oil, but I've heard a lot of good things from it as well.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Too much fat/oil in the diet will kill off the gut bacteria. It is suggested that a goat should not get more than 5% fats in their diet. Pouring oil on their feed can be rough on the gut flora, it drowns them.

Check the minerals on the all stock. Most all stock contains o% copper because it is made for sheep as well as other livestock.

Mine do very well on whole oats and alfalfa pellets. Oats have a higher fat % and are easy to digest. Barley is similar.

I have used Omegatin, which is a horse supplement. My goats go crazy for it and it has a good amount of fat without jacking up the protein. I also use Rice bran meal in the winter to help keep weight on.

How often is the Replemin supposed to be used? Most people I know only use ti once or twice a year. Over dosing on certain minerals is just as bad, if not worse, than underdosing. I've never used it, but I have never heard of anyone using it that often.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Too much fat/oil in the diet will kill off the gut bacteria. It is suggested that a goat should not get more than 5% fats in their diet. Pouring oil on their feed can be rough on the gut flora, it drowns them.
> 
> How often is the Replemin supposed to be used? Most people I know only use ti once or twice a year. Over dosing on certain minerals is just as bad, if not worse, than underdosing. I've never used it, but I have never heard of anyone using it that often.


Thank you, lottsagoats! Yes, I have heard that, although mine seem to do just as well if not better with a little oil in their feed.

The dosing for Replamin is 5cc once a week. It is supposed to be a complete vitamin and mineral gel, but it has little iodine. I offer free-choice sea-kelp.
Wow! I am surprised that it works. Mine need at least 5ccs per week, my darker does slightly more.

One thing that I find amusing is that on the label it states very clearly, "Do not feed to sheep or goats."
Three inches down, "Dosing for goats is 2-5cc depending on weight." :lol:


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thank you, LBNP!


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

TGG - Wow! You've got your hands full! There's been lots of good advice given, and I figured I'd toss in my 2c worth as well. LOL I feed my girls a mix of 3 parts whole oats, 2 parts barley (steam crimped is all I can get), and 1 pt BOSS...all of that mixed 1:1 with alfalfa pellets (so basically 6 parts alfalfa pellets). Minerals are free choice kelp meal and also Purina Wind & Rain 7.5 all season cattle minerals...available only in Texas, I believe, this has incredible copper, plus 2:1 Cah ratio. With these minerals I have to occasionally bolus my black buck but not my brown does. They are doing AWESOME overall on this nutritional regimen, and both of them have been thru some pretty serious health issues. One came to me half dead just after kidding last December, and the other had a seriously difficult kidding this spring followed by congested udder, systemic staph infection and a major blow-out of barber pole! I feel like my life for much of the past 9 months has been spent in the goatie ER -- but NOW they're both doing really well on this nutritional program. I feed them alot, though -- maybe too much by some standards. I use a 12 ounce cookie dough tub as my scoop, and they each get 3 scoops of this mix (plus maybe a tablespoon of the minerals top-dressed a couple of times a week) at each milking (so that's what...about 4.5 cups 1-2x daily?). Plus several hours of forage every day and hay overnight. They only problem I've really had recently is that I experimented with sweet feed and it tore my one girl's rumen up...still trying to get that fixed... and over the past couple of days she's dropped weight. Coat is like satin, eyes are good, energy and appetite good...just cow patties and a bit more bone! LOL. So I'm back to top-dressing probiotics to fix the rumen and to get the weight back on. Good luck to you! "Chant" sounds like a great goat if you can just get this issue resolved! I wish you all the best!

Little Bits & Pieces...what is COB? Thanks!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thank you, Lisa! That sounds like a good mix.  Your gals and guys sound wonderfully cared for. Out of curiosity, where do you get your barley? I have been calling all the local feed stores around here, as well as big feed mills, and no one seems to have it for a good price. The one store that did have it was asking almost thirty five dollars per forty pound bag! :shock:


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

thegoatgirl said:


> Thank you, Lisa! That sounds like a good mix.  Your gals and guys sound wonderfully cared for. Out of curiosity, where do you get your barley? I have been calling all the local feed stores around here, as well as big feed mills, and no one seems to have it for a good price. The one store that did have it was asking almost thirty five dollars per forty pound bag! :shock:


OUCH! That's highway robbery! I had been getting it at Producers Coop in Bryan (Hwy 21 & Texas Ave on the north side), but just recently my local feed store sourced it for me so I can special order it one bag at a time...I think it's about $11/50#! I can't remember Producers price but you could call them. It's a little bit of a jaunt for you from Austin, but if you can't find it anywhere else, it might be worth it. You can also get the kelp meal (a bit pricey) and the Purina 7.5 there, if you chose to try those. Good luck!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thank you so much! Feeding barley suddenly sounds a lot more feasible, LOL! :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Holy cow! I usually pay somewhere between $13-17 for a 75lb bag of rolled barley. $35 for a 40lb bag is outrageous! :shocked:

Lisa, cob is a grain mix of corn, oats, and barley. Sold either as dry cob, just plain ol' corn, oats and barley, or sweet/wet cob, when they coat it in molasses. 

Ariella, have you tried daily b-complex shots to stimulate her appetite? Just a thought...

And for the ease of typing, once again, my name is Lacie, bit easier than typing my herd name. But do whatever feels right :lol:


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

I pay $7 per 50# bag for barley, wheat, and corn; $10 per 50# bag for oats. BTW the corn is non-GMO.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Sounds like I need to have a talk with that feed store! :lol:
I did try the b-complex shots.  There was no noticeable improvement.

And Lacie, just as a warning - the auto-spell on my phone changes your name into Lacy, so please don't get offended if I forget to change it back. :lol: It is not intentional! My phone is nuts. It starts going insane whenever I type "weird" goat-related words. ::


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

A friend of mine that has had goats for 35 yrs. said she has found a supplement for animals that
really has helped her top milking Alpines keep the weight on. I ordered some, but have not received it yet. 
I believe Jeffers may carry it. I ordered it off Amazon and they are getting it from "Revival" Animal Health. (She ordered it from Amazon, and I didn't think to check the regular livestock places).

Anyway, it is vanilla flavored and you put a small amount on the feed. It is 150 calories per ounce. It makes their coats all shiny too!
It is for dogs, goats, sheep, pigs, horses, etc. NOT FOR CATS! No idea why, but that is what the instructions say! NO cats!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Would love to know how this works for you. Am struggling to keep weight on mine that I am drying off (therefore very little grain). I'm afraid alfalfa pellets will keep them in milk as well - so poor girls are looking scrawny.....


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I talked to Jerry @ my feed store yesterday...His auto response to your outrageous price on barley was "they just don't know where to get it!" LOL He charges me $10.30 for 50#. 

COB -- thanks, Lacie! 

DYNE -- I used this to get two pups thru Parvo...it's great stuff and very palatable. Never thought of using it with my goats. Your feed stores might carry it, Ariella. I know Producers in Bryan does (they are a mill and a huge cooperative and carry just about everything, though their prices aren't always the best), as do my two local stores here in Centerville. 

golly, I love this forum!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

LOL! :lol: 
GoatsRock, thanks!  I will have to check and see if my local feed stores carry it.  If not, I will probably order some. I'm sure someone in my family would end up using it either way! 

Goatblessings, I will definitely try and keep this thread updated.  Your girls seem to be in the same boat as mine. I try and reduce feed to dry them up, and the loose weight. :wallbang: I will be taking pics of Chant's progress. 

I am currently in the process of moving her off sweet feed, introducing Alfalfa hay again, adding wheat germ oil into her diet, and getting her rumen functioning good again. I contacted several vets around here, too, looking for the Furosemide. So far, three have stared at me like I've gone insane, and one has called me back a few hours later saying that they *might* be able to order it in. :lol: Their reactions were quite amusing! 

Anyways, I will keep y'all updated!  Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave me a post, be it long or short.  :hugs:


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

thegoatgirl said:


> Sounds like I need to have a talk with that feed store! :lol:
> I did try the b-complex shots.  There was no noticeable improvement.
> 
> And Lacie, just as a warning - the auto-spell on my phone changes your name into Lacy, so please don't get offended if I forget to change it back. :lol: It is not intentional! My phone is nuts. It starts going insane whenever I type "weird" goat-related words. ::


Unfortunately, the guy I get the barley grows it himself here in NC/SC...
I get non-GMO chicken feed for $13 per 50# bag.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

There are some does that no matter what you feed them, they insist on putting everything and more into their milk production. Sounds like you have done everything you can and with the move to Alfalfa, are on the right track. I know Alfalfa in Texas is not an easy thing to deal with. But the reason alfalfa is the best thing to put weight on a goat is because of the higher fiber content then grass and grains. Fiber slows down the digestion process. Allowing the animal more time to draw nutrients outta their feed. Good luck in your progress. Keep us posted.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I've got a LaMancha that is giving me the same trouble. Good appetite, but a picky eater. So even with Calf Manna, BOSS, and high protein goat feed she was too thin. We had to cut back her protein (part of her feed is a 12% horse feed now) because she was giving so much milk that she was bursting blood vessels in her udder and bleeding into her milk. It was "safe to drink" but Eeeew, who would want to? 

Cutting her protein did cut her milk production and now her milk is clean. Unfortunately, she's NOT a fan of food changes. She's finally eating the horse grain without crying and acting like I'm trying to kill her, but every other thing I've tried thus far to help her put on weight has failed. And without the Calf Manna, she has lost even a bit more weight. Still searching...

I'm wondering about that DYNE. I hope it's cheap because I hate to buy yet another supplement to find that she hates it. :sigh: Might try the Barley too if I can get it in a small bag.


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

I am following this thread like a dang soap opera. Haha I am currently working on a very thin doe. I rumen bolused yesterday for the first time. She fought me like crazy but I held her mouth shut until she finally gave in and took most of it. I've been working like crazy on this doe. So please let me know how the DYNE works. I have exceeded the amount of money that I want to spend on her. Plus she fights anything new and is a very very picky eater. I am thinking the DYNE is like NICH quick start, 180 calories per ounce. I have that and could use it but the question is really would it put weight on or just make her look pretty  She is already so glossy and her eye lids so red she is a poster child for pretty goats.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Quick question- does she like pelleted feed better than a textured feed? I'm going to be trying out a pelleted feed here shortly, and see if they like it. It's 19% protein and 6% fat.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Lacie, I am in the process of switching her over completely.  She seems to have maybe a little more appetite, and doesn't shove her food around as much. 
Wow! I am surprised that you are able to find one with that protein/fat ratio. There is nothing over 16%/5% here.
Or maybe it's just TX. :roll: Feed stores round here tend to carry only the necessities of feed and hay, I have to special order all my feed and good alfalfa. Quite annoying.

I took pictures of her today, my phone is not letting them upload. I will see if I can coax it into behaving and upload them.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

It's actually a horse feed, so the benefit of the premium ingredients, higher protein and fat (but not overkill on the fat), yeast and probiotics, and availability. :lol: 
Stay with me here, I'm not a nut case :lol: Look on True Value hardwares site, and type ADM into the search bar and you'll see quite a few different feeds. The one I have coming is in a blue bag, called JuniorGlo. Costs $20.99, plus like a $1.60 or something like that in tax, free shipping to your closest hardware store.


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

I have a mini milker that gives around 700-800ml a day whilst having her twin boys on her all the time. Not sure if she is classed as a heavy milker, but she gets a really good goat muesli 10% mixed with a horse pellet that's 14% and beet pulp. 3 cups a day. She also gets 1 biscuit alfalfa and 1/2 biscuit barley and free choice grass and browse all day. She is round as anything and had to be put on a diet..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You're smart Bree. All excess protein does is get peed out and create a nice ammonia odor in your stalls :lol: 
Protein doesn't make weight...Carbs do.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

True, so depending on your hay, you'll need to adjust needed protein.


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## countrygirl (Sep 29, 2012)

GoatGirl, I can literally feel your pain as I read your words. And I have walked in your shoes. I too had a girl that looked like I had just rescued even though I had had her for at least two years. She was a 125lb Saanen doe that milked over 2.5 gallons. When she first kidded, it wasn't so bad. Appetite, coat, behavior..all normal. As she reached peak production she would go off feed (and trust me, I offered everything under the sun), her coat would get dull and she would be listless or ornery. I did some research and even though she didn't have the body temp for it, she was in a milk fever condition. The calcium/phosphorus was outta whack. So my solution was organic calcium. I am of the natural path so I used a combo of horsetail, oatstraw, comfey and lobelia. It took a couple of days, but her appetite came back so all that nutrition was in her system, her coat shined up and her mood improved. I would give her one dose am and pm. If for some reason I skipped a few days, her condition would deteriorate. Use the herb combo and it would improve again. 

This is what worked for me. I hope it can help your girl. And with how I've used it, I'm confident it can't hurt.


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## rosawoodsii (Feb 20, 2013)

One suggestion I have not seen here is cobalt deficiency. It can make a doe look pitifully thin, coarse hair, etc. Cobalt sulfate is easily supplemented in water, but for a very poor doer, I'd syringe it into her for a few days. Irene Ramsay, a longtime Saanen breeder in New Zealand, wrote an article on this, and it's definitely helped my herd in this cobalt deficient area. I tried to attach it, but it exceeds the limits for the forum. If anyone wants a copy, I'll be glad to email it to you.

There are many antagonists to copper, one being iron, so sweet feed is definitely contraindicated for copper-deficient goats, but there are others,a s well.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thank you all for your help and suggestions! Chant just tested negative for CAE and CL. All my other does did as well. 

She weighed in at 127# on Saturday. 

Pictures are just not working for me (every time I try and upload them my internet connection disappears. :chin: ). I will continue to try and get them up here. Wish me luck! 

Thank you, countrygirl.  I did check her calcium levels a while back, but I should probably check them again. I am in the process of getting a prescription for something to help dry her up.
rosawoodsii, you have a very interesting point. I will look into this more. 

Lacie, you are a nutcase. :lol: But I will check that out.  There are several stores 'round here. 

Thanks, y'all!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

I know that it has been ages since I updated this thread, but I finally got around to uploading photos of Chant.

It's been two months, and she has gained eight pounds. She weighed in at 135# yesterday. I finally got her dried up with the help of several drugs, and she has gained one pound in a week after she stopped producing milk. I am currently in the process of balancing out her calcium/magnesium levels, and getting her some Vit. E and A. She loves the wheat germ oil, and has been slowly increasing her alfalfa levels. She started eating some beat-pulp, as well. 

I have attached photos of her from three weeks ago. She looks slightly better now.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

The flaky skin has now completely disappeared, her eyelid color is excellent, and her appetite is going back up. I am giving her a year off, so she will have a nice, long rest. 

So, wheat germ oil is definitely a winner!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is doing better for you.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, Karen.  I am definitely relieved as well!


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## goatylisa (Dec 29, 2012)

That's great, so happy to hear a good update!


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, goatylisa.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

How much wheat germ oil are you giving her?


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

nannysrus said:


> How much wheat germ oil are you giving her?


I started with two teaspoons and worked up to one or two tablespoons. She loves the flavor, and I think the Vit. E in it really helped to get her on the right track.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Good job, way to go!!!!! I use Rice bran meal for mine. They love it and it's not as messy as oil.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, lottsagoats!  I can't take any of the credit, the folks here on TGS helped me out tons, haha! 

That is interesting! Do you add it to the feed? I have been putting the oil on the feed for my girls, and they lick it all up.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Chant now weighs in at 140#s, and is gaining weight fairly fast now.  Her eye color is excellent, her attitude has gone back to normal, and her coat is looking really good. She still has a fish-tail, however, even though she shows no other signs of copper deficiency. 

I have upped her feed ration a good bit, as well. She is now eating four cups of high-fat pellets per day, with almost two cups of beet pulp shreds. She also has access to free choice alfalfa pellets; the hay quality went waaaay down a couple weeks back, to the point where the hay was inedible. I have continued to give her wheat germ oil, and have been rumen bolusing every other week. I have also been adding probios to her feed, and she is getting ACV as well. Worm and cocci levels are still good. 

She has also been cycling extremely strong, every 21 days on the dot. Unfortunately, she refuses feed when in heat, despite my best efforts, and so it usually takes a few days to her get her rumen back to full function. 

I will try and take some more pictures soon.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Glad to hear she is on the mend. It takes a while for the fishtail to go away, still fighting with that with two of my girls.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Glad to hear she's doing well!
Are you breeding her this year?


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, y'all! 

Margaret, no, she is staying dry this year. I am focusing on French kids as of now, and this will give her a chance to gain weight so she will look good for LA. I will either A.I. her next year, or breed her to this buck:
http://adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001562107


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