# Um...I did a thing...HELP



## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok...so I went and did a thing...or rather bought a thing...or rather two things.

A young nanny goat and her first baby. The baby is also a nanny. The baby is only a few days old. And the poor nanny is a bit rough looking.

I already bought a bottle and someall milk protein goat milk replacer in case we need to start bottle feeding the baby.

Mom has a handful of grain and all the good grass hay that she wants.
Fresh water they can both reach. They are in a pen with a small dirt yard that they can go out in when ever they want. Their food and water in in the shed and so far they have stayed in their.

I have seen the baby nurse a bunch of times and checked her udder and got milk out of both sides just two minutes or so after the baby had nursed so she seems to have a good amount of milk. There is a tiny bit of dried yellow milk poo on the baby so I am guessing she is getting milk already instead of just colostrum.

Is there anything else I should do?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Congratulations on your new goaties! They make a pretty pair. 

How much grain do you have the doe on? I would start giving her alfalfa hay (24/7) and maybe (very gradually) up the grain a bit, she is thin. Also, having a fecal run on her would be a good idea.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Personally, I would have her on grass hay 24/7. As much as she wants to eat. I would introduce alfalfa slowly as to not upset her rumen. And once she's eating a good amount of alfalfa per day I would slowly add in grain.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Dayna said:


> Personally, I would have her on grass hay 24/7. As much as she wants to eat. I would introduce alfalfa slowly as to not upset her rumen. And once she's eating a good amount of alfalfa per day I would slowly add in grain.


Oh yes - forgot to add that - introduce the alfalfa hay to her slowly as well.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

She has good grass hay as much as she wants available 24/7 and just a double handful of dairy goat feed. 
She was a lot more interested in the hay then the grain. She nibbled it but then pushed her hay over the bowl and was just steadily eating the hay.

Are there any tricks to tell if the baby is getting enough to eat. Poor thing is exhausted but she was up and walking around most of the time at the auction because people kept poking at her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Weigh daily with a scale that weighs in pounds and ounces or pounds and tenths of pounds.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

I bought some all milk protein milk replacer and a bottle. 
Should I give the baby just a bottle a day to help to take some of the strain off of mom and to make sure that baby is getting enough to eat?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I would not bottle feed the baby unless its an emergency. Doing so can cause all sorts of stomach and health issues. IMO


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree ^^
If baby is stretching when she stands up from a nap, that is a good indication of well being. 
Grass hay 
Alfalfa hay, pellets, or Chaffe Hay 
Dairy goat pellets 
About a cup of whole oats for healthy carbs
Good loose minerals 
Cobalt block 
And mom needs a copper bolus, her tail is starting to split


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## Sprinkles (Apr 18, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Weigh daily with a scale that weighs in pounds and ounces or pounds and tenths of pounds.


Can you recommend a good scale?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hanging fish scale. Weighs up to 50 lbs. Just need a bag or sling to put kid in.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

goathiker said:


> I agree ^^
> If baby is stretching when she stands up from a nap, that is a good indication of well being.
> Grass hay
> Alfalfa hay, pellets, or Chaffe Hay
> ...


What do you mean by the tail splitting? I know her tail looks rough but it is still covered in after birth so I thought that was the reason. Can I get a copper bolus from a feed store or do I need to go to the vet?
She is getting a dairy goat feed that is mostly pellets with some cracked grains and molasses? It is sticky and smells sweet.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

I have a question about the position that the baby is in the picture.
Front end laying but back end in the air. She was halfway between standing and laying when I got the picture but later when we got her home she went to lay and stopped half way like that and was half laying half standing for a long time. Is it a sign of some sort of problem or is the poor baby just too tired to move once she gets a bit comfortable after a full day of being at the auction and being grabbed at and chased around?


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

All three of my babies do the half standing half laying thing some. Or, well, they did. I don't notice it so much now that they are a bit older. I just assumed they were comfortable that way. They are both such beautiful girls. That baby is an absolute doll. It makes me so sad to think of how scary and stressful that was for a new momma wanting to keep her baby safe and being at the mercy of all those poking, grabbing, people. I am so glad they are there, safe and getting the care they need.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

They look really rough this morning. Gunky eyes on mom and matted hair all on the back end.
Baby is congested and having a hard time nursing. Going to milk mom and give baby a bottle. 
My hubby is going for some penecillin


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Are her eyes sunken in? She has diarrhea? She may have a heavy load of worms, which can bring a goat down very, very quickly. Last year I lost a 3 month old buckling to worms, and almost lost a doe that I bought 5 days after she kidded. After kidding/moving to a new home they are more susceptible to worms, and must be watched carefully. 
If you can, have a vet run a fecal on the mama ASAP. And also a shot of fortified B complex helps a lot too.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Goat_Scout said:


> Are her eyes sunken in? She has diarrhea? She may have a heavy load of worms, which can bring a goat down very, very quickly. Last year I lost a 3 month old buckling to worms, and almost lost a doe that I bought 5 days after she kidded. After kidding/moving to a new home they are more susceptible to worms, and must be watched carefully.
> If you can, have a vet run a fecal on the mama ASAP. And also a shot of fortified B complex helps a lot too.


The whole back.end of Baby is all matted down and covered in gunk. Her bum and the back of her legs. It is dry and I haven't seen her poop but am assuming she has the runs because of that.
Baby is congested in her chest and has a snotty nose and seems to be having trouble nursing.

Mom has more blood and gunk on her back end then she did yesterday. 
Mom is still eating


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

I took these pics this morning


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Baby wouldn't take the ounce of milk I got out of mama and offerd in a bottle.

They are at my friends house right now but Hubby is clearing a corner of our shed and building a pen for them after he gets the penicillin for them and puts it into them. He will bed it up thick with straw and set up a heat lamp for them.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok
Baby is getting penicillin.
Mom and baby are both getting oral vitamin B and selenium
Mom is getting dewormer in a day or two
Big bed of straw and heat lamp in new pen
Baking soda put out
Goat vitamin block put out
Free choice grass hay
Small amounts of textured dairy goat ration for mom 2-3 times a day
Baby woke up a bit and keeps going to mom to nurse and cuddle
Warm water for mom

Am I missing anything?

Am I


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

They need loose minerals (not a block), because goats’ tongues are not rough enough to get all they need from the mineral blocks. I just buy the large bags of cattle minerals from TSC, and they last a long time. 

You are taking great care of them, they are so lucky to have you!


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Goat_Scout said:


> They need loose minerals (not a block), because goats' tongues are not rough enough to get all they need from the mineral blocks. I just buy the large bags of cattle minerals from TSC, and they last a long time.
> 
> You are taking great care of them, they are so lucky to have you!


We got liquid minerals to give them an instant boost to help them right now. The block is for maintenance...why do they sell the blocks for goats if goats can't use them? Or are they just to prevent boredom?


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Goat_Scout said:


> They need loose minerals (not a block), because goats' tongues are not rough enough to get all they need from the mineral blocks. I just buy the large bags of cattle minerals from TSC, and they last a long time.
> 
> You are taking great care of them, they are so lucky to have you!


I thought cattle minerals dont have the copper goats and sheep need?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would get a temp on both goats. If baby is raspy, or rattly sounding, she may have pneumonia, in which case nuflor or tylan 200 is better for respiratory problems. Get a fecal run on the doe, she probably does need wormed, but without knowing what type of worms you need to treat, just worming with anything may not take care of the problem. Cattle minerals usually have great copper for goats (of course depends on brand). Sheep do NOT require copper that goats/cattle do and can die from too much copper. Good luck with them, I hope things turn around for you soon.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Jekka_Lynn said:


> I thought cattle minerals dont have the copper goats and sheep need?


There isn't enough copper in goat minerals for them either, that is why we have to copper bolus them every few months. 
I tried the one and only goat mineral at TSC, but none of my goats would touch it. They love the cattle minerals though.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Jekka_Lynn said:


> We got liquid minerals to give them an instant boost to help them right now. The block is for maintenance...why do they sell the blocks for goats if goats can't use them? Or are they just to prevent boredom?


I really don't know why they have some mineral blocks for goats. There is a cobalt block (you can order it from Amazon) that is another good supplement for goats - it IS in block form, but I guess goats don't need as much of it (?) so it doesn't matter that it's a block. I have one.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Good advice from all. You are doing a great job with them! A little Vet rx or a dab of Vick's vaporub on baby's nostril's may clear her nose up enough to make nursing easier for her. You can also use a bulb syringe to clear out the runny snot...


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

groovyoldlady said:


> Good advice from all. You are doing a great job with them! A little Vet rx or a dab of Vick's vaporub on baby's nostril's may clear her nose up enough to make nursing easier for her. You can also use a bulb syringe to clear out the runny snot...


I have a home made vapour rub made from coconut oil, beeswax, olive oil, and food grade peppermint essential oils. Will that work rubbed on her nose to help her congestion?


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Goat_Scout said:


> I really don't know why they have some mineral blocks for goats. There is a cobalt block (you can order it from Amazon) that is another good supplement for goats - it IS in block form, but I guess goats don't need as much of it (?) so it doesn't matter that it's a block. I have one.


I believe he bought the cobalt one.

I will check everything in a little while when I get home.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Cobalt blocks are blue, and hard to find........ probably just a goat block.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Got home and baby is in bad shape. Hubby says she has been walking around and nursing but she us all floppy and weak.her back end is covered in mucous. Her eyes are definetly sunken in

I got maybe three ounces of milk replacer into her. How much should I try and get into her. She took two ounces from the bottle then I used a syringe to squirt it into he mouth and she would swallow it.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

goatblessings said:


> Cobalt blocks are blue, and hard to find........ probably just a goat block.


Oh and he got them a protein block. But I am not sure if we should put it out or not


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

@toth boer goats ?
@goathiker ?


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Mom perked up a lot after her meds.
Baby perked up a bit after some sugar water so she is out with mom under a heat lamp in a thick bed of straw. I am going to check her every two hours and offer warmed up Powerade to baby. 
Right before she went out she had some liquid yellow scours


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Miss typed nor sugar water. Corn syrup with just a touch of water. Just a few ml right before she went back out to mom


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Jekka_Lynn said:


> I have a home made vapour rub made from coconut oil, beeswax, olive oil, and food grade peppermint essential oils. Will that work rubbed on her nose to help her congestion?


That should work fine.

If the baby has diarrhea, you can give her some Spectoguard pig scour halt. Best. Stuff. Ever. It's for e-coli. So it may not help if baby has coccidia...

It tastes great (don't ask how I know.) so you shouldn't have any trouble getting it into her. I bottle feed -so I usually just put it in their bottles. The dose is twice the dose on the label (goats metabolize more quickly than pigs). Give it twice a day for 3-5 days.

Did you get a fecal sample yet so you can see what parasites you might be dealing with?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would not feed her replacer - it can cause scours. Take her temp before you feed her anything and make sure she is at least 101 degrees. If you feed milk to a cold baby this is potentially fatal. If she is sub temp, you must get her temp up..Milk out mom and feed her that, or if she is scouring badly give her electrolytes. You may need a vet to listen to lungs and diagnose what is going on. Babies go downhill very quickly, I wouldn't put out a protein block for now, just great hay until everyone is feeling better. B complex for both would help as well.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

So bad news.

I finally found a thermometer. An old glass one and tried taking her temp. Her body is WAY too cold. Like shutting down dying cold. I tried to warm her in hot water but couldn't get things set up to keep her submerged. Fought with it for like an hour and kept accidently getting her wet. Dried her off and checked her temp and still freezing. Put her on a heat register while I frantically searched my house for my heating pad.
Found two that I use to use to brood chicks. Both have an option to turn off thw auto shut off. So I set up a tote with a heat pad then a towel then baby laying with legs tucked and chest straight. Then towel then another heat pad and then towel again. 
She has been snuggled like that for maybe 15 minutes and already seems to be breathing easier and be more aware


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Good job! Keep working on her - check her temp frequently,you can also put your finger in her mouth - warm mouth is good! If you have any b-complex, I would give her that, plus a little karo on her tongue. I hope she pulls through for you.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

I gave her Kato earlier and b complex.

I went to check her again and she had died...
Thanks everyone for your help. I am going to try and sleep now. 

Mama goat is all set up warm in the shed with straw and hay and water. She is drinking the water and eating her hay. We forgot to move the dairy ration when we moved her over here but she got some this morning and we will get it tomorrow. We will keep her here a few days so we can keep an eye on her. Then she will move to my friends house. I dont know what to do about company for her. I know that goats need company


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost the baby.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok...now I need to concentrate on making sure Mamma makes it.

She drank some water yesterday but not a lot during the night.
I checked around her eyes and it was pretty pale so we are giving her the dewormer today.
She had a vitamin shot and some oral vitamins yesterday. One was Vitamin B and one was Selenium. Should I repeat either of those today?
Her eyes are bit runny so we are going to go ahead with some penecillin just to cover our bases.
Offered warm water and corn syrup yesterday but she ignored it.
She had two small handfuls on grain yesterday morning but none at night. We will give her another two handfuls this morning and then two handfuls tonight.
Her poo is a tiny bit soft but not bad.
Her udder is normal. No excessive heat or lumps in her milk. I just milked a bit out if each side to be sure there wasnt any problems. I didn't strip her empty.
Not sure if I should try keeping her in milk and grafting on a baby tomorrow so that she isn't alone or just let her dry up. At the auction there was other babies in a pen with her and she wasnt agressive towards them at all. I know goats are heard animals and I don't want her to pine from being alone.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Sorry sorry about the baby. Do continue with the penecillin - what dose are you giving her per day? What kind of wormer did you use? You can give her B-Complex for a few days. Is she eating hay? I would not get another baby from an auction - these are hard environments for goats, especiallly babies, and as you know, they are often not very healthy. She will need a friend, but I would concentrate on trying to get her better first. I would also dry her up slowly- she needs to get healthy and producing milk ia demanding on her body.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

goatblessings said:


> Sorry sorry about the baby. Do continue with the penecillin - what dose are you giving her per day? What kind of wormer did you use? You can give her B-Complex for a few days. Is she eating hay? I would not get another baby from an auction - these are hard environments for goats, especiallly babies, and as you know, they are often not very healthy. She will need a friend, but I would concentrate on trying to get her better first. I would also dry her up slowly- she needs to get healthy and producing milk ia demanding on her body.


I started a new thread just about the nanny since we lost the baby.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Oral vit b won't do really anything, you need injectable kind. Are you injecting the penicillin? What kind, what dose, and why? Does kid have a temp? Doing antibiotics when not needed can make goats very very sick. 

Goats need loose minerals, the vitamin block won't help.

What kind of de wormer will you be giving? What symptoms of worms does the mother have?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Jekka_Lynn said:


> I started a new thread just about the nanny since we lost the baby.


Its usually best to keep the same thread going, otherwise people don't know whats going on.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh...I'm so sorry about the kid.  Praying that Mama does ok for you!!!!


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Dayna said:


> Its usually best to keep the same thread going, otherwise people don't know whats going on.


Sorry. I thought usually a new topic needs to be put in a new thread.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Dayna said:


> Oral vit b won't do really anything, you need injectable kind. Are you injecting the penicillin? What kind, what dose, and why? Does kid have a temp? Doing antibiotics when not needed can make goats very very sick.
> 
> Goats need loose minerals, the vitamin block won't help.
> 
> What kind of de wormer will you be giving? What symptoms of worms does the mother have?


We didnt have a thermometer until the end with the baby and her temp was dangerously low so I dont know if she ever had a fever. 
We are doing injectable long acting penicillin. Like we were told to do with our last goat with shipping fever(not always an actual fever just what our vet calls animals that look sick a few days after being at an auction). 4cc once a day for a few days because she is a very small goat and we were told the dose is 5cc per 100 pounds.
I haven't taken a rectal temp on her because she just gave birth...I have had kids myself...sorry but unless she gets worse and it becomes critically important I am not doing that to the poor girl.
I am using a dose of ivermectin dewormer that my friend who raises goats measured out for me to give her. She warned that it likely won't cure her completely of every type of worms but it should help clear a bunch of them and then we can get a fecal done to be able to tell what else we need to give her. We got her Friday and planned to get a fecal and things on Monday but the skin when I pulled down her eye lids yesterday night looked very pale so my friend said to de worm right away with the ivermectin since we had it available and the vet was already closed.
Why wont oral vitamin B do anything? Everyone else told me to give it to her and her appetite has definetly imprpved since she had her first dose of it...


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh and mom has rough coat, skinny, and pale membranes(is that the correct term?) When I checked around her eyes.
We are also getting a copper bolus to give to her


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry you lost the kid. 

I agree, no need to start another thread.

No grain while she is not well.

If she will not eat at all, make a alfalfa/water slurry and slowly drench her with it about a 1/4 cup pellets and add water so it goes through a big syringe(no needle) easily. 
Make s new batch each time you feed her every few hours.

How is he rumen, any sounds and movement (left side)?

Probiotics a couple of hours after antibiotic, would be wise.
PenG is 1 cc per 20 lbs, SQ, 2 x a day for 5 to 7 days depending.

What injections are you giving her?
Fortified vit B complex needs to be given SQ. 6 cc 's per 100 lbs. Orally does nothing really. She need the thiamine in it.

Was it Bo-se (selenium shot)? 
If not, it won't do a lot given orally.

She needs a fecal done for worms and cocci. It is bad you didn't do that prior to treatment to know, but it would be a good idea. 

She needs a iron supplement like red cell for anemia. 6 cc per 100 lbs for 1 week then, 1 x a week thereafter. 
However, if her color goes back to border line on the famancha chart, stop at that time. You need to rebuild her blood.

She needs loose salt and minerals with copper and selenium in it. A good cattle one will work.

A temp should of been taken before antibiotics. Get one anyway.

I really recommend a vet look at her and to stay away from auction yards, you can get a lot of issues from there. 
Really bad diseases that remain on your property for years, contaminating it.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> I am sorry you lost the kid.
> 
> I agree, no need to start another thread.
> 
> ...


She never went off her feed completely. She started out just nibbling her hay and grain and has just been very dull looking with weepy eyes and a hunched back.

We gave her a Bo-Se injection yesterday.

We also gave her oral Vitamin B Complex. I am really confused about that because a lot of people told us that is what we should give her. Why do they make it and so many use/recommend it if it doesn't do anything? I am confused because we have used it before with a goat who lacked an appetite and it worked then and seemed to work this time because she started eating better a few hours after getting it. (Not trying to argue just asking to try and learn)

I have been able to hear stomach sounds every time I have listened for them.

I cant manage to get a temp on her by myself and my husband says that since she is improving he wont help me unless she starts to look worse again because he doesn't want to stress her out when she is improving.

We were told that as long as she is eating her hay good and doesnt have diahrea or breathing trouble we should keep giving her the tiny amount of grain because she needs the energy. Was this wrong? We are only giving her a large handful once a day.

How much water should she be drinking in a day? She doesn't seem to drink much so today I gave her a bowl with two liters of warm water with some corn syrup dissolved in it and ahe drank that fine. I was going to give her more tonight since she has barely touched her water bucket today.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> I am sorry you lost the kid.
> 
> I agree, no need to start another thread.
> 
> ...


I got a cattle loose mineral but it says on it that it has added selenium and not to fers with something else with added selenium.
Her dairy ration has added selenium...we are in a selenium deficient area so everything has added selenium


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Believe me, you will not be overdosing on selenium. Most minerals don't have that much selenium in them. The manufacturer is just covering their butt. Not because it is too much.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I agree with whats been posted. 

Temp. Injectable B, not oral B. No grain yet. Loose minerals. Alfalfa hay, grass hay, water. 

The thing about the B and oral is that the rumen does a number on almost all oral medications. It never really makes it into the blood stream or where you need it to go in the concentrations you need it to. Her appetite might be increasing for other reasons, and is likely coincidence. Oral meds like b and selenium really only work on kids under 2 days old. They absorb things differently than older kids or adults do in the first couple of days.


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## Jekka_Lynn (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok got an iron injectable that also had vitamin B from the vet.
Got the loose minerals.
Got her a friend. A little baby nanny that was the smallest from a set of triplets and slightly parrot mouthed.
She is eating and drinking better then she was.
Vet told us to give tiny amounts of grain because of how skinny she is. So she is getting a handful twice a day. So less then a cup of grain a day but a taste so her stomach starts to adjust.


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