# Why disbud



## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

Why is it that most Nubian I see have been disbudded or have no horns? Is it just personal preference?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

For most dairy, it is required in order to show.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I don't show (and would refuse to do it because of the disbudding issue) I do NOT disbud.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Like Nancy mentioned for most dairy people it's required to show. I have one buck who we didn't do due to time factor, now if I were to sell him that cuts down who may want him if they want to show.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand disbudding is not fun but with dairy goats its needed...yes to show you need them to have no horns..but also safety... raising boar our first few years I was always covered in bruises... they can hurt each other or get stuck in fences and be a target..it takes 30 seconds to burn them for a life time of safety..and they fit our milking table better...ones with horns get stuck and panic.....it took me several years to get on board with disbudding..and now that we do it..Im not sorry...the babies forget about it quickly and the benefits out weigh the short period of pain...I do feel bad for them and try hard to make it as easy on them as we can.. and as stated..they sell better...it is very hard to sell a dairy goat with horns


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## ladysun (Feb 8, 2012)

While I am never overjoyed when it's time for disbudding- I hate, Hate, HATE it actually, I refuse to not do it, as there are too many horror stories about goats getting gored, caught in fences and the like. I tend to think of it like vaccinations with children...a necessary evil, whose benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. One or two minutes of pain, for their own safety for many many years...yeah i think we will keep doing it.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I actually wrote about why I disbud on my website: http://theartofgoatcare.weebly.com/disbudding.html


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is certainly a personal choice that is up to you. I would look into if you would have problems selling kids if they aren't disbudded.

For me I don't want the problems of worrying about being hit with horns. Plus most people who buy from me want to show their dairy goats.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Disbudding dairy goats isn't done because of the show requirement. Its done because in a dairy situation you do not want horns on animals that could be used to damage another does udder, get caught in the hay feeder (most dairies use the feeders where the does head goes through a "key hole" shape so they can not walk around on the hay) and hornless heads fit in the milking stanchions better. Just look at dairy cattle, they do not have horns on them either, they are all dehorned or naturally polled, cow horns typically go straight out the side and would definitely not fit in a hay feeder or a head gate.

Dairy goats were milking animals long before they were show animals, the no horns rule for showing is for safety but also because throughout history dairy animals have always been hornless.

If you are raising registered dairy goats, even if you don't like it you should disbud them. You never know if the person who buys them will decide they want to show later on only to learn they can't show their goats because they have horns, or to learn they have a goat whose head won't fit into a normal stanchion, gets caught in fences or is a perfect leg hooker. Horns can be very dangerous around smaller children, a friend of mines daughter was playing with her little pygmy babies who only had 2 inch long horns and was within milimeters of getting a horn in the eye when one butted at her face, and also if they are on the wrong goat. I have one particular doe that is very aggressive and if she had horns there is no doubt in my mind she would have gored some of my other goats or caused some serious injury.


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## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks so much! I am raising meat goats and I have had goats for two years. I know that's not long but I have never had one get caught in fence. Nor have I had any of them butt me or my kids who are 4&2. I am wanting to start using and drinking goats milk and am wanting to get a Nubian because I love their long ears. I will breed her and maybe one or two more as well and would like for it to be easy to sell them. Maybe I will have a hard time selling them? I guess time will tell but I am not a fan of how it's done.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

ptgoats45 said:


> Disbudding dairy goats isn't done because of the show requirement.


For some breeders, actually, that is the only reason they disbud. Not everyone disbuds for the same reason(s). If you want to show your dairy goat in sanctioned shows...you're goat must be polled or disbudded...so that alone right there could be enough for someone to disbud.

For me, part of the reason I disbud IS because they must be disbudded to show.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

For me the biggest reason I disbud is like Kylee said, I want to show my goats. First and foremost that is why I disbud. 

Other reasons:

1. Disbudded animals sell better in my area. My doe kids are bought by other breeders who want to show, therefore they must be disbudded. My wethers are sold as pets, the market for pets here wants disbudded babies on the bottle. 

2. Yes they are less hassle. I used to have horned boers and angoras and never really understood why people would disbud. Now that I have predominantly hornless goats, I understand why. They are much easier to handle and less worry and hassle about getting bruises from the horns or them getting stuck in a fence or hurting each other. Now I know that sounds petty compared to third degree burns to a baby's skull. But here's the thing. My does are disbudded, but I have two bucks with horns. And when I am finished with these boys I will never have a horned buck again. They can cause so much more damage with their horns to the fencing and infrastructure than without them. Lots of people have said to me "well you should be responsible enough to build the facilities to deal with a horned buck so they can be how God intended them to be" but the way I see it, the money I spend replacing fencing CONSTANTLY because they have been beating into it and ripping it apart with their horns, that money could be better spent on feed, health care, vet funds or new genetics for the herd.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

ptgoats45 said:


> If you are raising registered dairy goats, even if you don't like it you should disbud them.


I disagree. If you choose as an animal owner/breeder to NOT disbud you shouldn't be made to feel like you "have" to.

I know of two dairys here on my Island that do not disbud. And don't have issues because of it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

This discussion is always a ticking time bomb with much emotion involved.

Dayna, you're right. no one should feel forced to anything they don't want to. It doesn't hurt me if you want horns, it doesn't affect how I prefer to do things, At the same time, it doesn't affect you if I chose to disbud. It doesn't affect me if Keren does hers herself, it doesn't affect her if I take mine to the vet. 
Everyone on this board does everything just a little different, for reasons of their own. New people simply need to take the time to experience their goats and make their own choice. Then, don't feel like you need to defend your choice. Leave it at, I choose to feed like this because...I choose to use this fencing because... I choose to not clip because...I choose to have horned goats because...That's all anyone really needs to know


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

In many other countries it is frowned upon to disbud even in large dairy situations. They get along just fine. So I do not find it necessary at all. If you want to do it fine that's your right to do so but it should not be forced upon anyone to do it. Registries should be open to all horn types in shows.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you have Boer goats and they are horned and the Nubians with be with them, then that may help you make a decision. You can always offer disbudding to people who want it if they buy early enough. The big thing is how important is it to be able to sell kids quickly and what the market is looking for.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

xymenah said:


> Registries should be open to all horn types.


You can register horned goats in the dairy registries. You just can't show them.


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## DaisyMayFarm (Jan 19, 2013)

I won't disbud any of the kids that I breed. I feel the same about disbudding as I do declawing, cropping, docking and circumcision.  In other words, I'm against it. 

I'm trying to go with a happy medium, and only buy/keep polled kids. Works well.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Let's keep this on topic, "Why is it that most Nubian I see have been disbudded or have no horns? Is it just personal preference?" and not drift into a disbudding vs. not disbudding debate everyone. :thumb: We've had enough of those already. :laugh: I'm not talking to anyone inparticular...but this thread is starting to drift away from the original question.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

If you have Boers and Nubians, why not breed the Nubians to the Boer buck and get crosses? The kids would still sell well as meat/market kids (and Boers are preferred with horns) and the does make very good moms as they will milk more than some Boers but are meatier. Nubians are a dual purpose breed, heavy set for meat, but produce good quantities of milk.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

As to the original question, I think it has been answered well by many 
But....
For right now, I am choosing not to disbud simply because I like the look of horns  We'll see how it goes....I think if someone reserved one from me and asked for disbudded, I'd use the iron.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

pubgal83 said:


> Thanks so much! I am raising meat goats and I have had goats for two years. I know that's not long but I have never had one get caught in fence. Nor have I had any of them butt me or my kids who are 4&2. I am wanting to start using and drinking goats milk and am wanting to get a Nubian because I love their long ears. I will breed her and maybe one or two more as well and would like for it to be easy to sell them. Maybe I will have a hard time selling them? I guess time will tell but I am not a fan of how it's done.


I have dairy and boers. I had one doe with horns, and she'd use them to the other two does w/o horns sometimes very badly. For us she has gotten her head stuck, not as bad or often as my neighbors - his do it all the time- luckily I'm home so when I hear the ball of i'm stuck I go out and get them 'unstuck'.
There are reasons not to, it's a double edge sword, horns do provide some cooling effect for the goat.


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## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> If you have Boer goats and they are horned and the Nubians with be with them, then that may help you make a decision. You can always offer disbudding to people who want it if they buy early enough. The big thing is how important is it to be able to sell kids quickly and what the market is looking for.


Thank you so much. I hadn't thought about that. I do plan to have them with my others and they may need them to possibly defend themselves. I just hope that my vet doesn't cost a fortune to do it when and if the time come to do so in order to sell. Thanks again for everyone's input. Greatly appreciated.


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## foster farms (Feb 3, 2013)

I used to not disbud because I just didn't like doing it, but after one of my more aggressive pygmy does (with horns) put a long gash into my pregnant nubians stomach, that had to be sewed up buy the vet, (which cost alot of money) I decided that I would never own a goat with horns again. I ended up selling all my pygmys and getting into nubians, but I bought the Rhinehart x30 which does a good job of getting hot quckily and burning very well.


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## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

Ouch! That would make me want to do something too! I just KNOW that I couldn't do it myself!


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

pubgal83 said:


> Thanks so much! I am raising meat goats and I have had goats for two years. I know that's not long but I have never had one get caught in fence. Nor have I had any of them butt me or my kids who are 4&2. I am wanting to start using and drinking goats milk and am wanting to get a Nubian because I love their long ears. I will breed her and maybe one or two more as well and would like for it to be easy to sell them. Maybe I will have a hard time selling them? I guess time will tell but I am not a fan of how it's done.


I'm not saying it will happen but it CAN happen and to me why take the chance. My kids and grandkids safety comes first if i had horns on my goats i wouldn't allow them in with them for fear of it happening just once. I don't understand why so many are against this. We circumsize our sons pierce out daughters ears some tatoo theirselves yet cringe at the thought of disbudding. When dealing with livestock sometimes you just have to do things you and the animal don't like for their safety and yours.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> I'm not saying it will happen but it CAN happen and to me why take the chance. My kids and grandkids safety comes first if i had horns on my goats i wouldn't allow them in with them for fear of it happening just once. I don't understand why so many are against this. We circumsize our sons pierce out daughters ears some tatoo theirselves yet cringe at the thought of disbudding. When dealing with livestock sometimes you just have to do things you and the animal don't like for their safety and yours.


Not on topic but;

I would not have circumsized my son. And I allowed my daughter to choose when to peirce her ears. I have a tattoo that I chose to get as an adult.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I love a glorious set of horns! And I hate disbudding; that is really the only thing about goatkeeping that I hate. I hate pain and death so much that I avoid killing insects, even spiders and roaches I find in the house. I sweep them up in a dustpan and throw them outside.
But I do disbud, and here are my reasons in order of importance.
1. Safety of humans. There are frequently small children around this place, and I *will not* risk one of them losing an eye.
2. Safety of goats. I don't want them to rip holes in each other or get caught in hayracks etc. (I do have a horned goat; I blunted his horns with a saw. He's never been mean to people and he's smart about not getting stuck in things; but he has hurt me accidentally before, and he sometimes bullies other goats, so I have to watch him closely around small children.)
3. Quality of life. If I sell a goat and it starts to bully other animals or people, it might get neglected or have to be put down; or worse yet, someone might decide to band the horns, which is a lengthy and painful process.

Yes, disbudding is extremely painful. No one knows that better than the people who disbud. But it's only for a few seconds, and it ensures a much better life for everyone involved. It's tough love.
If the world were a perfect place, there would never be any pain or sadness. But the world is not a perfect place, and so pain can't be totally avoided.
But I understand and respect the decision of people who won't disbud.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

All I know is I do not want a goat with horns. There's a petting zoo nearby and most of their goats have horns (which I think is actually really dangerous because of all the small children) 
Anyway one day I was cuddling a wether and he wasn't being any way not friendly he just moved hos head but he clipped me in the head with his horns and it was close to my eye and very scary. 
Horns are just big scary head weapons in my opinion lol


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## black-smith (Jan 20, 2011)

pubgal83 said:


> Why is it that most Nubian I see have been disbudded or have no horns? Is it just personal preference?


I have actually seen more polled nubians than any other dairy breeds,
but all the registered breeders I know disbud. So it could be either one


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Felt I should add....if I had a large number of goats, I would disbud. Or if I had a property where I could not look outside my windows and see them, I would disbud. If I had a lot of little kids around, I would disbud, but I don't. The youngest kids around my house are 14....and know to always watch horns. Also, none of the horns mine have go straight up....

I may end up disbudding for sale goats, but if I want to keep one, I'll keep the horns , cause I like 'em


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## Macyllehub (Jan 6, 2013)

In my area, disbudding is the standard for dairy breeds I've learned quickly. 

That being said, I got a beautiful doe and her dam, one with horns, one without for inexpensive not because the lines were weak, but because the younger one had horns. Her dam came from another farm and was disbudded and we are choosing to disbud our kids, today actually, for our learning curve. We may eventually be very like Dayna - we don't vaccinate our children, circ, etc etc etc. It's a personal choice and horns totally seems that way. 

But for those I may want to sell? Disbudding is the standard around here.


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## GoldenSeal (Sep 14, 2010)

Good luck selling anything that is a milking animal that is not disbudded around here. The human aspect of choices is completely different because well, I don't remember the last time the thought of selling my children came into play of whether or not I would circumcise, vaccinate, or even get ears pierced. In an industry being able to sell the stock you raise plays a huge part in what you do because you do want to at least be able to pay for feed, don't you?

I also had a pygmy doe impale a Nubian doe I had about 6 years ago. I never have had a horned animal on my property since. I got rid of everything and started with registered Nubians.


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## NigerianGirl (Jan 30, 2011)

I have small children around my goats and i believe that if the small children are going to be around(Whether i want to show them or not) they need to be dehorned. I do in fact show so that is another reason that we disbud.


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## Macyllehub (Jan 6, 2013)

Speaking of disbudding... I survived my first disbudding experience. My goat mentor came over and her husband did it for me. I was actually surprised how not shocked the goats were. I expected something worse I guess.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

That's great! I am sure you're glad to have it over!


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## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

But what do you use for handles to move your goat if you disbud them? 

Kind of in jest yes but seriously too!


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