# Incredibly frustrated with doe that isn’t bred yet.



## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Hi all!!
While I’m not 100% sure, it appears like my doe Gracie is going back into heat. We have attempted about 4-5 times to breed her with no success. She is a poled Nigerian Dwarf doe who will be turning 2 in March. She has never been bred before but she does come from really good genetics and I really want to see what she has to offer.
I noticed her vulva was a slightly pink color as opposed to her usually gray/brown. It appeared to have a bit of dried discharge and she was flapping her tail quite a bit.
Is there any way to test if it is possible for her to be bred, or test if she could be a hermaphrodite?
I’m not sure if this has anything to do with it, but she is not kept around a buck and she was incredibly excited to meet the buck she was breed with this time. They were with each other for about 15-20 minutes while I held her still. We were pretty confident she was bred and we saw the whole thing happen. Her half-sister Squeaks is due to have kids in 3 days and Gracie is still not bred. Any suggestions? 
Thank you to anybody who has answers. She has been driving me crazy.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

If it’s been 30+ days since the last possible breeding, pull her blood and send for a pregnancy test. We use a lab in PA, the test is only $2.75. Very fast results too.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

It depends on how much money you want to sink into her.

I agree, start with a blood test for pregnancy. If negative, you may consider trying a round of LA-200 to eliminate the possibility of Chlamydia or another reproductive infection. Then you could move towards the more expensive diagnosis, ultrasound, etc. I'm not sure if there is a test for hermaphrodism but a veterinary exam may be able to identify false structures in the abdomen or vulva. A blood test for mineral panel may rule out any extreme imbalances. 

Lastly, I would be sure to inform the breeder.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Thanks for the advice! We will definitely looks into getting a blood test done, and thankfully PA is close to where I live so we should get the test results extra fast.
Gracie was bred on Jan. 25 (18 days ago) and usually has a heat cycle at about 21-22 days so I’m surprised she is having an early one.
I’m not quite sure how much money we want to invest in her, but we have told the breeder about it. Since we aren’t 100% sure she is in heat currently, we haven’t told the breeder about today. The breeder we are using is the same person we bought her from, and she has agreed to refund the doe if she is 100% unable to be bred.
I’d feel bad to have the breeder have to refund her since she has already been so patience with Gracie, and provided the BoSe shot. 
Thanks for the advice so far. In 12 days we will try a blood test and see what her deal is.
Thanks all!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

The breeder may want to know what the problem is via vet diagnosis before refunding.....which is fair.....


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> The breeder may want to know what the problem is via vet diagnosis before refunding.....which is fair.....


Yeah. We are really hoping we won't have to return her, especially since she was my first (and so far, only) bottle baby. We would definitely let our breeder know before we made any decisions, and we'd show her any information we got on Gracie before we returned her.
Our breeder is actually a staff member of TGS, so we trust her!


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Yesterday evening, around 4:00, I noticed that Gracie was not flapping her tail (that I saw) and there was no discharge. Her vulva was still pink colored though. Could I have misread her heat cycle?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Sorry, impossible to say! It's possible She may not be having regular heat cycles. The vet may recommend trying a hormone injection to "reset" her reproductive system.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Sorry, impossible to say! It's possible She may not be having regular heat cycles. The vet may recommend trying a hormone injection to "reset" her reproductive system.


So far, we haven't seen a vet as we don't have any goat vets in our area. Our 4-H goat club leader, breeder, and the people on TGS are the vets I've had the best advice from.
I'm always a little scared when someone injects hormones into a goat however resetting her reproductive system may be something to consider.
Thank you. 
Edit: This is the first time that I've noticed her heat cycle go early. She usually is spot on 21 days, but this time she was 18 days, if I read the signs right anyway. I'll check on her again this morning. 
Thanks again!
@OldTurtleMom


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes, it's totally up to you. I won't keep a doe that needs any interference to get bred. To me, that's poor husbandry, spreading poor genetics. If I were you, and the breeder is willing to refund, I'd take the money now without any further investment. But just trying to lay out options for you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, except, it doesn't mean bad genetics. It may be from a bad kidding prior, to infection, or cystic, scarring.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Have you tried a different buck? I have an older doe that hasn’t settled this year, but the buck we bred her to multiple times also didn’t settle another doe. I’m still trying to figure out if it is her, him, or a combo. I’ll likely be selling her as a non breeding animal this summer if she didn’t settle with the other buck we put her with on 1/17.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

Yeah, I’d be incredibly disappointed if we had to return her, but i’d understand if that was our only good option. She comes from a good lineage, and won Best of Breed for Nigerian Dwarf last year at a 4-H against 10 other Nigerians Dwarfs, (including all the Sr. Does.) and I was really excited to get kids from her since she comes from great genetics.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Trying another buck is a good idea.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

NDinKY said:


> Have you tried a different buck? I have an older doe that hasn't settled this year, but the buck we bred her to multiple times also didn't settle another doe. I'm still trying to figure out if it is her, him, or a combo. I'll likely be selling her as a non breeding animal this summer if she didn't settle with the other buck we put her with on 1/17.


We have tried 2 different bucks but I haven't been a super big fan of what we have had to do with her so far. I'll explain.
The first couple times we tried with a buck that lived 45 minutes from our house. Sometimes the stress of the car seemed to knock her out of her heat cycle. I held her while she was bred, and we took her home. The whole deal lasted 20 minutes at the most. That buck was about 2-3 years old.

The second couple times we tried with a buck (SP) that stayed at our house. The longest she was with him was a day. We took her out when she had enough of him, and we were certain she was bred. SP was 4-5 years old. 
SP did successfully breed our (5 years old at the time) Pygmy/Nubian cross Lucy.

Last time we took her to the first buck, she was excited to meet him. This was the first time she wanted to meet him. Other times, she was totally in love with the buck we leased. 
I don't get it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What a bummer.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

We took her to the breeder’s today. Before we bred her, the breeder checked for blockage and said that there wasn’t any. The buck did breed her (that we could see) and she was SUPER excited to meet him. She had all of the three bucks running around trying to win her favor. We just took the buck we wanted out though, so the other 2 didn’t have a chance. 
This was the first time she had ever blurted our strange noises and ran in front of the buck to get his attention. Will the fact that she was interested in the buck increase the chances of pregnancy?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

We will see.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

fingers crossed the breeding took this time. Are you sending a blood test after 30 days?


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> fingers crossed the breeding took this time. Are you sending a blood test after 30 days?


We will try that if we don't see her go back into heat. We are unsure if she showed prominent signs of a five day heat, but she could have. Do you recommend any good labs we could send a blood test too?
Thanks in advance!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am not an expert on this at all, but when you said she is polled, it rang a bell. Could she be infertile, if both her parents were polled?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

UBRL is the lab I have been using recently


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

MadHouse said:


> I am not an expert on this at all, but when you said she is polled, it rang a bell. Could she be infertile, if both her parents were polled?


I though of this as well however I just checked her ADGA pedigree and saw that her mom was polled however, her dad was not. 
And..surprise surprise..she's in heat again. :imok:


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

I wasn’t sure if it was just me going crazy or if this is scientific. 
Before she had a BoSe shot, her heat cycles were every 21-22 days. After the BoSe shot, her heat cycles have been every 18 days. Is that normal? 

We are taking her to get bloodwork done so we may find her problem soon.
Thanks all for all the help and advice you’ve given so far. I’m hoping the blood test will reveal something. (pray)


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

CaramelKittey said:


> I wasn't sure if it was just me going crazy or if this is scientific.
> Before she had a BoSe shot, her heat cycles were every 21-22 days. After the BoSe shot, her heat cycles have been every 18 days. Is that normal?
> 
> We are taking her to get bloodwork done so we may find her problem soon.
> Thanks all for all the help and advice you've given so far. I'm hoping the blood test will reveal something. (pray)


Good luck!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Interested to hear what you learn from any testing... sorry she didn't take this time


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