# *Sad Update* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.



## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

I have 3 pregnant NDs. They were all bred around the same time frame and are due any day now.

All three have started building their udders (they are not huge but have definitely grown), the ligaments don't feel terribly loose to me, but this is my first kidding to I'm no expert by far.

Today I noticed that the oldest female, Pepper (she is the mother of the other two girls so she has kidded before) had bloody colored goop dripping out from her, umm, lady parts. The goop was not solid blood, just tinted with that rusty color. It was really thick and slimy and kind of hung out the back collecting dirt all day so I cleaned her up a little this evening because I was worried about infection. 

Now, I read on the Fiasco Farm website that some does will expel CLEAR goop before the birth and that it's normal. It also mentions AMBER colored goo as a sign of imminent birth. The only mention of bloody goo is that it happens about a week after kidding. She definitely has not kidded already.

So, what does this mean? Is this a bad sign or does it just mean that she is close to kidding? She is not acting distressed or unusual in any other way. The only abnormal thing I have seen her do is that she has been going in to lay down inside the plastic Dogloo by herself from time to time when she would normally stick by her two older daughters.

I also noticed that she looked skinnier that she had been looking, like her sides were not sticking out as far as normal, and the area just in front of her hips on either side looked kind of sunken in, like she had not been drinking enough or something (she has access to plenty of clean water). I did read that the kids move before birth so that the right side is not bulging out, so maybe this is what I am seeing when I say she looks 'thinner.'

I have read and re-read every bit of info about kidding I could find so I thought I was prepared, but now that the actual event is arriving, I am left scratching my head.

Any advice?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Calm down, don't panic....and Welcome Cyanne....sounds like you are going to have babies on the ground VERY soon. She looks thinner because the kids have dropped, and her going off by herself is a way of saying ..."hey, I need some calm, private time to give birth"
The "goo" you are seeing is normal...Exactly what day would she be on, gestation wise? Most of us with nigies go with 145 days from the date of breeding to get a due date as MOST nigies will deliver before the standard 150 days. The pre birth mucous can range from a white, clear, rusty smeared to none at all.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

First off Welcome to the group!
It sounds like you are getting close. A little blood in the goo is normal. It does happen. But if you start seeing a lot of blood before kidding there could be a problem. The side sinking in are her kids dropping which usually happens a few days to a few hours before birth. Her going into the igloo by herself is another sign labor is very close. A lot of does like their privacy. If you have an area where you can pen her off but she can still see the other two that would be great. If you see her pawing at the ground she is getting really close. I would say that you will have babies in the next twenty four hours. 
When she goes into labor you will see her get a glazed look on her face. they tend to stare off into space while looking at nothing in particular. She may also put her head on the wall. A lot of does will curl their tail flat over their spine as they have a contraction. When she gets down to serious pushing her back legs will get really stiff, she will lay down kind of on one side and push out with her back legs.
Hope this helps.
beth


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I'm glad to see you here and agree with liz. You are going to have some kids here shortly. Good luck and here's hoping everything goes smoothly. ray:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

oh and we're a picture happy group! Dont be afraid to post lots of them!
beth


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I will add that I agree with sparks about having an area where each doe can kid by herself and be able to bond with her babies would be a good choice, even though kids have springs in there little butts by the time they are 2-3 days old, they would still not be quick enough to get out of the way should one of the other does decide to be aggressive with them.

How is Pepper doing?


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

So far no change, I'm about to go out and do another check, though.

Right now she is in my improvised kidding 'stall' which is a 4 ft by 6ft goat tote thingy that we use to haul goats in the back of a pickup. I laid down plenty of clean straw and put a bucket of fresh water in there before putting her in for the night.

I wasn't so much worried about the other girls since she is the queen b**ch as far as dominance, but I have a young LGD that is untested as far as being around a kidding. He's around 11 months old and he's been perfect so far with the does and the 4 month old kids that I brought home as part of my starter herd, but I'm still nervous about the idea of him being unsupervised with a brand new baby all covered in goo.

If the other two girls suddenly start looking close, I will probably switch tactics and lock up the LGD in the kidding pen!

The rest of my little herd consists of Pepper's 2 daughters (the other two that are due any day), 3 young adult registered NDs, one 4 month old doeling, and (in a separate pen) my buckling and his wether buddy.

Will definitely post pics as soon as the kids arrive!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Since she is an experienced mom, she knows how to make you totally nuts before she has them, and I too would be watchful of the LGD pup especially since a birth would be new to him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

yes ...be very careful with the pup being around birthing.....

your does... if they are anything like mine....will slam him....telling him to get away.....Most New moms.. are usually very protective... :wink:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Just wondering if Pepper has you bald yet? And just think, you have 2 others that will be doing the same to you very soon :greengrin:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Yep, she is definitely trying to make me go prematurely grey!

Earlier today I went to check on her and she stood in the pen staring at me for a bit, then squatted like she was trying to pee but nothing came out. I checked her rear and she had more of the goo hanging out (no kidding bubble, just slime). I got kind of excited, thinking that the squatting thing meant that she was starting her contractions, but since then she just has been laying there looking at me completely unimpressed by my growing anxiety.

I think she knows how much I value my sleep and she is holding off until she can keep me up all night on a work night since I was off for the 4 day holiday weekend. Tomorrow I'm back to work so I'm sure she'll kid at like 2am tonight just to make my life more...interesting. :roll:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Welcome to our world. :greengrin: :wink: :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

yep sounds like shes getting there..just keep cheking her, ligs too, posty etc. :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

She'll deliver before Midnight, I hope! Usually the squatting and nothing coming out is sign that she's feeling pressure....the goo is likely from her dilating, you'll know when she's ready to get down to business. And I hope that she lets you get some sleep tonite.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Welcome Cyanne You will have babies soon soon soon! :leap:

Now, please make sure that water bucket is up high enough so that the kids cant get into it!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Welcome Cyanne, So do you have any babies yet? If so we love pictures.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Nope, still waiting! She has not really gotten serious about things yet. So far all I've seen is the mucous and a couple of times I've seen her squat or stretch her back but no real pushing. I think she plans to draw out my torture as long as possible.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Do you know the due dates on the 3 girls? Most will set day 150 after breeding as a due date, but the mini's ( nigies and pygmies) tend to go from day 145. Having a due date would give you an idea if she's in "practice" or slightly over due.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Nope, they were really sneaky about the whole breeding thing. I only caught ONE of the 3 girls in the act (in the middle of the night, no less) and I wrote down her due date using the calculator on the Fiasco Farms website as 7/11.

btw, the whole breeding thing is a funny story...I was out after dark closing up the chicken coop and doing a last check of everybody before going in for the night when I heard this awful commotion coming from the goat pen. It sounded like some horrible growling thing had gotten in there and was chasing the goats around. The noise was really scary and sounded like no animal I'd heard before. My hubby had the flashlight and was over by the coop so I couldn't really see what was happening, but I could tell that whatever 'it' was, it was chasing one or more of the goats around the pen at top speed. I called for my hubby and ran into the pen (stupid, I know) to try to rescue my babies, and when he got there with the light I could see that our mysterious monster was none other than Elvis the ND buck chasing Bitsy around the pen to try to mount her. The horrible noises were his idea of romantic talk, I guess. :roll:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

lol..yep those bucks sound very silly..thor sounded like a barking dog. :ROFL:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Elvis sounded like a monster with a tummy ache...it was a low growling, moaning sound. I thought for sure that a chupacabra had gotten into the goat pen! :wink:


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## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*



cyanne said:


> I thought for sure that a chupacabra had gotten into the goat pen!


Chupacabra! LOL! :ROFL:

Hope you get some babies soon!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Yep...kids soon, if the doe you got the date on hits 150 on the 11th...then she's already on day 147 so she can go at any time.

Those boys are something else! You wait til you hear a 2 day old buckling start the "bucky yodel".....you'll p your pants laughing! They sound like Porky pig from Bugs Bunny!


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## Jenna (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

yep, some times they sound to me like a human calling someone's name or yelling something or other :scratch: , those bucks can make some weird, weird noises!! i had a buck that started making 'what what' sounds, mounting and sticking his tongue out at THREE days old!!


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Okay, so Pepper STILL has not delivered her kids. She is still just laying around in the kidding stall, calm as can be, with goo dripping out but no pushing.

I first noticed the goo on Sunday morning, so we're on day 4 now with no kids and I am starting to really worry. I put in a call to my vet this morning to see if she thinks I should bring her in or just keep waiting. Her answers didn't give me too much piece of mind because she first said that it was NOT normal for them to be dripping any color of goo other than clear or milky colored. When I mentioned that I had gotten responses on 3 different forums from experienced breeders that they do sometimes leak blood tinged goo and that it would possibly be from the cervix thinning, she changed her mind and said it was normal?

Her advice was basically to monitor Pepper's temp and bring her in if it goes over 102 OR if she stops eating and seems distressed.

Does this sound right?

Someone did mention that they have a doe that loses her plug 3 whole weeks before birth. I really hope that is not the case here because I don't think I could take 3 weeks of worrying like this!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*



> She is still just laying around in the kidding stall, calm as can be, with goo dripping out but no pushing.


 sounds normal to me, if she is calm.. then she is ..OK and not in labor yet.....when she gets restless and pawing ...up & down.... is when.... she may be getting closer....you may see.. a transparent amber color goo.. almost tube like..that indicates she is close....you will feel her ligs disappear... her tummy will drop and almost appear ...she isn't preggo from behind..this is when her kids are going to the birthing canal....she will be sunk in the flank area as well her udder may be really tight and shiny in appearance around the bottom area ....see may look posty..
when she is in full labor ...she will start pushing....I usually look to see.. if the bubble and the front feet/ head position is correct ...if not... I go in... and see what is wrong....and correct it ...so they come out the right way..
If you do help her ....only pull when she pushes.....and pull downwards.. towards her back legs..

yes... some does.. take there time in losing there plug...... :wink: 
Another thing is....the vet should know it isn't good to move a preggo doe this late in pregnancy...the vet should come to you...if she needs help...the doe will be stressed enough.... :hug:

hope this helps


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

yup, i agree with pam. She will drive younuts until you cant take it anymore then when you run in to get some coffee or go to the bathroom she will pop them out. AS long as she isnt in distress then she is fine. She will know when to do it. Experienced mom can hold them in for a few days until they feel they are ready to kid and its safe to do so. 
If you are monitoring her temp carefully you will probablky see it go up a degree or two right before the delivers this is normal.
beth


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I would think about letter her out for a bit, let her get some exercise. If you do not know the due date shw could just be loosing the plug and that can happen a month before they kid.

Do you have a picture of her and the back end. If you can get a picture from the butt, and the side and her utter. Is her utter really tight? Like really tight? If not she is fine.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I think you may be right...though of course if I let her out she will probably go ahead and drop her kids right after and they will be born out in the dirt with the LGD right there. :roll:

I guess I might need to tie or pen Bear (my LGD) up or something just in case. He is still young and inexperienced and I would be horrified if he tried to eat a newborn goat because he didn't know what it was. I know his instinct is to protect them, but all that blood and gunk seems like it would be way too enticing.

If nothing else I'd be afraid he'd try to 'play' with the babies and possibly hurt one by mistake. Though I would hope that Pepper would slam him into next week if he tried.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Pepper sounds like a normal, ready to lose her load preggy doe. If she is not in distress...as was mentioned, pawing furiously, up and down constantly or crying out, then she's waiting for the right moment. Oh and she will protect her babies too...your pup would get the shock of his life if he would get too close to the babies......and Pam is right, any vet would know not to move any animal this late in the pregnancy....unless a dire emergency. Since she has kidded before her udder will be very full and her teats will be plump...I found with my does and many years of kiddings that the teats are flat and empty til just hours before delivery...the udder is full and tight but the teats plump and fill with colostrum right before they start contracting.....do not squeeze her teats to check, you can tell by looking as you don't want to introduce bacteria into the orifices.

Have you felt for ligaments before? If not, check on one of your bucks, they run in an upside down V from the top of the tail to the bones on either side of the anus and feel like pencils....once you can feel them on a buck, you'll know the difference on a doe in labor..they will be very low and soft, when you can't feel them at all and the area on either side of the tail is mushy, she's very close to delivery.
I hope she doesn't keep you( and us!) in suspense much longer and delivers healthy and happy :girl: :girl:


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I hate to disagree with everyone else... but I wouldn't let a doe go 4 days of squatting, arching her back and having lots of goo without investigating. I had a doe 2 years ago who was doing this, after about 12 hour of it I inserted a couple of fingers and found that she had 2 kids (4 legs) stuck in the birthing canal so she would NEVER go into proper labour... if I were you I would either take her to the vet to investigate or insert a couple of fingers yourself - at least to see if the cervix has opened yet!

Hope all goes well
LW


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I agree, LW, I've missed this post till now.

A tiny bit of goop sitting on the end of the vulva is normal and they can have that for weeks.

But losing streams of goop, especially blood tinged, for DAYS I dont think can be any good at all.

I'd have her looked at (or investigate myself)


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

How is she doing today? Can you give us a update?


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Yesterday I decided to let her out of the kidding stall and just see what she did. She happily trotted off to hang with her friends and has been just walking around and acting pretty much normal (eating, peeing, pooping). I think you guys were right that we still have a ways to go before she goes into actual labor. Her udder is still really small and it's not tight at all, plus I can still feel her ligaments.

For those suggesting rushing her to the vet, I already consulted my vet and she told me NOT to bring her in. She has not been putting out huge amounts of goo, just enough to make her rear messy. I only saw her squat twice in the course of 3 days, and she has not been arching her back like she was having a contraction, I just saw her stretch her back a couple of times the way a pregnant woman would do when her back aches from toting around a baby for months. It wasn't like an urgent or prolonged thing, it just looked like she felt stiff and needed a stretch (being locked in the little kidding stall probably had a little to do with that).

For now we are just keeping an eye on her and watching for her to separate herself from the herd and checking her temp, udder, and ligaments.

Will keep posting updates to let you guys know how she does.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Oh, forgot to add, I would appreciate if someone can post and explain how to go about checking to see if she is dilated. In other words, where exactly is the cervix located and when do you recommend checking this. Since it sounds to me like this would be uncomfortable for the doe (and me!) and possibly introduce germs, I don't want to be poking around in there unless it is necessary and I am doing it correctly.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

when a doe is in labor you put two fingers in to see if there is a baby stuck.

Otherwise i dont go into a doe I just check for loose ligaments.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Don't worry about her cervix opening. I would not go in unless you really have to.

Can you post a picture of her? That would really help us to see her. If her bag is that small I say you have about a month to go, but I have been way off before.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Okay, so I think for both my sake and the does I will avoid any awkward moments and just take a wait and see approach for now. Pepper would not appreciate the alternative and would probably make me regret the violation 10-fold.

She and her two grown daughters, Bitsy and Domino, are not what you would call 'tame' (not like my sweet, cooperative show girls, anyhow). Oh, they will come running up and take treats all day long, and even the occasional scratching, but it is always on THEIR terms and they definitely don't like it when you catch or restrain them in ANY way or if you violate their personal space by giving shots, meds, or to do stuff like check ligaments.

All three are big, oversized oafs so it can be pretty tough to hang on and drag them wherever it is you need them to go (the milkstand, for example) when they decide they don't want to. And even once I get them locked into the milkstand it is still a fight to do anything. You should have seen them when I gave their kidding haircuts! Bitsy fought and kicked like I was murdering her and at one point she whacked me in the chin so hard my teeth clicked together hard enough that I thought they might break. I am not looking forward to breaking them in to milk!

For now I will stick with checking those ligaments and watching her behavior to see when she is really ready.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I agree with Stacey and Lori.....don't go in ...unless she is in active labor(pushing)....she is to calm and acting normal... to be in distress....believe me... you will know distress or she has been pushing for 1/2 hour or less... with no progress... then you will have to go in.........squatting and stretching is normal..they could be trying to shift.. the kids.. because they may be putting an uncomfortable pressure ..on her internally.......... As Lori mentioned... a pic...of her udder/vulva area... would really help....in how far along ..she may be...or if ..we may see.. something of concern.....also.. to see her discharge...may help as well.... :hug:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

I am at work at the moment, but I will try to get some pics when I get home.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

NP.....we will be here ..for you.. :wink: :greengrin:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Sounds like you have a heck of a time doing even the routine things with these girls.....If it's possible that she settled later, then I would leave her alone and not cause any undo stress on her, you will definately know when she's in labor and if she is in distress...believe me. And another surprising que to a doe in labor, ones that are not friendly seem to suddenly want to be your buddy.....so another thing to add to the many "symptoms"....pics would help a great deal so if you can try and get one of the udder and tail area and another of her side view.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Oh yeah, these three can be a handful! The people I bought them from raised them to be spoiled brats...lots of love but they were never really made to DO anything they didn't want to do. So, for example, her place was pretty rocky so they never had their feet trimmed. My place is sandy so their feet grow quickly and need frequent trimmings...they seriously DO NOT approve of the idea!

They just sort of wandered around their previous home going wherever they pleased and doing whatever they felt like all day, so now I am having to teach them to do stuff like lead (which is usually more like dragging them), go up on a milkstand (aka goat wrestling), take medicine, etc...it's sort of a process, but we have made a little progress since they arrived!

They aren't skittish or scared of people per se, it's more that they want to interact with people on THEIR terms. So if they feel like granting you the privilage of petting them then they will stand there in your face all day, but if you go in to try to catch them to trim their feet they scatter in every direction and you have to spend forever just catching them, get all bruised up dragging them to the milkstand, then get try to hang onto their leg without getting kicked in the face while trying to clip their hooves. :roll:

I have 4 other girls that are registered NDs, 2 of which I have been milking and 1 doeling that has not freshened yet but I've shown her as a junior doe, and they are all so sweet and cooperative. When I want one of them on the milkstand I just open the gate and let them out and they run right up there and stick their heads in the holder thingy to start eating. In fact, I practically have to fight them off when I go in the pasture because all three want to go out and get to the stand. The 3 preggo girls (we call them the oafs because they are HUGE compared to the show quality girls) act like the milkstand is some sort of evil goat slaughtering device!


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: HELP! Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*



> act like the milkstand is some sort of evil goat slaughtering device!


 :slapfloor:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Well, you won't believe this, but it looks like Bitsy is going to beat her mom in the kidding race. Pepper rejoined the herd and has not gone into labor yet, she has not been oozing anymore goo (does this just mean the plug is gone?), her ligaments are still there, and her udder is still pretty small (though larger than when she was not preggo).

While I was out to milk today I noticed that Bitsy's udder had more than doubled in size practically overnight! I caught her to check the ligaments and I can't even find them, everything is all 'mushy' back there around the tail head. Now that I have felt it I can definitely see how you would not mistake whether the ligaments were 'gone' or not!

She is not pawing at the ground or pushing yet, so she's not quite ready, but I bet we have kids on the ground before tomorrow!

Oh, and a side note, Bitsy is apparently NOT one of those does that gets friendlier when they get ready to go into labor. As I mentioned before she is not normally fond of being caught and handled, but she is even worse about it right now. When I tried to check her ligaments and her udder she went nuts and it was all I could do to hang onto her collar. She made it very clear that she is feeling very 'hands off' at the moment.

As hot as it is I didn't want to upset her too much so I just tucked her in to the kidding stall with some fresh water and left her alone. Will keep you posted when the real action starts!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Yes it does sound like ....Bitsy....will be kidding first.....your other girl.. might have a ways to go yet.... :wink: Keep us updated... :greengrin:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Bitsy's sounding like sahe will beat her mama .... can't wait to hear what you get.


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## Jenna (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

Can not wait to see when and what she'll have!! Hope she has an uneventful delivery! :clap:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

WE HAVE OUR FIRST BABY!!!!!! :girl:  :stars: :wahoo: :leap: :dance:

She is a beautiful little blue-eyed, solid-black girl with a little white smudge on top of her head! She is soooooo tiny and cute!!!! I am in love!

Her momma was nothing if not punctual since today is exactly the day that I calculated based on when I saw her bred!

I wasn't even there for the event, I've been checking all day and NOTHING, then I took a nap and came back outside to find her already out and mostly clean. Sheesh. All I had to do was tie off the cord, trim off the dirty part, and dip it in iodine.

No problems with bonding, Bitsy definitely loves her baby...the only little hiccup was that she wanted to keep licking her and would not let her nurse. Every time the baby went that way, mom would jump away and circle back around to lick. I tried holding her in the kidding stall with no luck, then finally decided to try putting her on the milking stand. At first she kicked at anything touching her udder, so I started off by milking some into a soda bottle just in case I had to give it to the baby with a bottle. That way it was me being kicked and not the baby! After a couple of minutes she stopped kicking me and just stood there letting me milk her, so I stuck the baby over there and nudged the teat towards her face. She finally got the idea and latched on and Bitsy FINALLY stood still and let her drink.

After she drank a bit I put them both back into the kidding stall to let them sort things out

Now, the only question is whether this is the only baby in there. Bitsy was HUGE and still looks big and round so it's hard to imagine just that one tiny kid in there. The afterbirth junk is still hanging out, so it has not passed yet. Should I worry about that?
.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE* Pregnant goat with bloody goo...normal or not?*

CONGRATS!

That naughty girl, waiting for you to go take a nap. That's how they do it though!

Usually, passing the afterbirth means they are done, but not always. My doe Hope passed an afterbirth, and then had another kid.

You can "bounce" her to see if she still has a kid in there. Be gentle! Here is a great link:

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/bouncing.html

If she settles down and does not appear to be in any distress, and you can't feel a lump when you bounce, she is probably done. My doe Cowbell just had twins about five days ago, and still looks like she could have two more. Some does are like that! We had people over today and they pointed and went, "When will she have babies?" and I pointed at her kids and said "Five days ago."

:ROFL:

ETA: Oh, and yes its normal for the afterbirth to hang. It will come out when its ready.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

So, Bitsy started pawing again and pushing, and has a amber colored bubble coming out. I thought I might have seen a hoof peek out at one point but that may have been wishful thinking on my part (I really am hoping for twins!). Will keep you posted if she has another.

Oh, and I took pics of the first little girl and will post them as soon as I'm sure it's all over and we can relax.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Sounds like another baby is coming! :clap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

yup sounds like another - congrats on the one so far


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

I hope so, but I can't really tell. She had a string of reddish stuff that was hanging out when I first found her with the baby, then I noticed her pawing and pushing a little and saw a gold/amber bubble come out, but could not see anything in it but fluid. A couple of times I thought I saw something darker peek out, but then it went away so I don't know if she is having another one or if she is just passing afterbirth.

I tried the 'bouncing' thing and she was not having any of that. I figure that if I were trying to have a baby I probably wouldn't want anyone squishing around on my tummy either, so I did not press the issue.

Guess I will just have to keep going out to check until she either passes the afterbirth or has another kid. It's gonna be a long night!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

I know she wont like it but this has been to long between kids so youneed to check with two fingers. An amber bubble usualy means a kid.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Okay, so what will I be feeling for?


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

You should feel the kid, if there's one there. Like Stacy said, an amber bubble is usually a kid. It will feel hard (the kid) as opposed to an afterbirth or nothing at all, which will be soft.

I hope someone explains it a little clearer than me. Fingers crossed for smooth sailing. :hug:

ETA: I have both msn and aim if you want someone to talk with a little faster?


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Okay, going out to check now...


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Good luck! If there is no one else around and you really need help, pm me for my phone number. ray:

I've only had three goat births here, but one was a really hard kidding I assisted with, and I've assisted with many other livestock and pets. If one of the more experienced people is on still, even better, but I can help if ya need me.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Well, I guess she only had the one, since I did not feel anything in there other than the soft, squishy stuff. So it looks like she is just passing the afterbirth.

I will still check on her later a few times, but it looks like it's just going to be a singlet.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

ok well do keep an eye to make sure but glad you did check.

Did the amber colored bubble emerge yet?


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Glad to hear everything is okay. The afterbirth can sometimes look like a baby bubble; I know when Hope had her kids it sort of looked like another baby but was the afterbirth.

Just keep an eye on her and watch for signs of distress. I'll be hanging around a while longer so I'll keep an eye on the thread here.  :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Congrats! BE and Black is just beautiful....hope she is all done and no problems come up.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*



StaceyRoop said:


> ok well do keep an eye to make sure but glad you did check.
> 
> Did the amber colored bubble emerge yet?


There was an amber colored bubble that came out. It looked like it was part of/attached to the afterbirth that was already sticking out from the first baby. I popped that bubble to make some room, then I went in like you suggested with a gloved hand dipped in lube mixed with a little iodine. All I could feel was soft stuff, no kid. So, either there isn't another one in there, or it is farther in than I could reach.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

ok sounds right - just wanted to make sure


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Sounds like everything is fine. Can't wait to see the new kid!


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

good job! :thumb:

cant wait for pics :greengrin:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Here are some pics of the new baby!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

she is so jet black! I love black goats. If I had to have a herd of one color it would be black


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

What a STUNNING baby!! CONGRATULATIONS!!

 :leap: :clap: :stars: :thumbup:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

she is stunning for sure!


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## helmstead (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

:stars:

Beautiful baby! Congrats!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

congrats ....what a beautiful baby..... :greengrin: :leap:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

What a beauty! Black or black n white are my favorite colors/patterns for goats! Those BE will be absolutely striking on her.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Just wanted to give an update, Bitsy STILL has her placenta hanging out and it has been more than 24 hours since the birth. I know you are not supposed to pull it out, but is there anything I can do to get it out other than that?

My vet is closed, so I won't be able to call her until tomorrow...just wanted to see if anyone had any advice.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

did you give her the tums like I suggested?


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## Jenna (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

:stars: The kid is gorgeous!!!  CONGRATS!!


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

No tums, but I gave her a calcium drench earlier today.

I will say that, in the future, I will try to use flavored tums instead since the calcium drench is apparently GROSS to goats so they act like you are trying to poison them and spit it all over you making it hard to tell how much you get down them. Ugh.

The good news is that most of the afterbirth that was hanging out of her finally fell off.

I had them in my improvised kidding 'stall' which was a goat tote cage, but the holes were too big so the baby kept getting out and getting separated from mom.

So, I let the mom out and put my buckling, Beau in the tote. Bitsy was out with the other girls while I upgraded my buck pen to make it baby proof (the baby was safely tucked away near me). I guess she is trying to raise hers and her baby's status in the herd because she was really rough housing with the others. All of the exercise finally made the placenta fall out.

I think the problem before was that in the confinement of the tote she was mostly just laying around so it had no weight on it to help it fall. Once she was out of there and it was cooler outside she got up and played and it fell out.

There is still a little goop on there and I am hoping that the whole placenta came out rather than it just breaking off and leaving some inside. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask if she has any recommendations for what to watch for.

As for the baby, she seems to be doing great so far. I was a little worried earlier because Bitsy was laying around and the baby could not nurse, so I grabbed the bottle of milk that I had put in the fridge last night (I milked her out some right after the birth) and gave the baby some of that a couple of times during the day. By nightfall I saw her nurse from her mom a few times so I think she is gonna be fine, especially now that they are in the bigger pen by themselves.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Congrats on the gorgeous little girl!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Congrats!

Glad everything came out alright.

Alot of the stuff we have to give them does taste nasty. You can always mix it with a little gatoraide or apple juice. Be sure to get it as far back on the tongue as you can. 
The calcium drench has more calcuim than tums.

She will be just fine. Remember she will bleed off & on for a few weeks or so. 
Unless the blood is bright red or in large amounts. This sounds gross but get close enough to take a whiff. If it ever smells like a slaughter house you will need to call the vet.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Nancy is right - sometimes we have to give them things they dont like - flavoring it really helps if they fight you


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

I read all I could on how to drench properly and checked out all of these photos online so I would do it right...they all show how you are supposed to hold the head 'just so' so that it goes in but does not get inhaled into their wind pipe or whatever. Then when I tried to do it myself all of that seems to go out the window because as soon as they get a taste it is a crazy rodeo of me hanging on for dear life and just trying to get any amount in their mouth and get it to go down instead of back out and all over me.

They act like you are pouring toxic waste into their mouth...bellowing, grinding their teeth, and hacking and spitting it all over you. Goofy goats!

Next time I will try flavoring it and I also plan to buy a real drench syringe instead of trying to use the little 3cc needless syringes that were all I had on hand. First of all, you have to keep re-loading the syringe to get a full dose, second you can't get it to go very far back in their mouth.

I saw a decent one at TSC a while back for around $15 and I think I am gonna grab one before I have to drench again.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

Congratulations on the beautiful baby.  and a doe to boot.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: *UPDATE - FIRST BABY!!!* Pregnant goat with bloody goo.*

With drenching, I have been known to save the syringes that safeguard wormer comes in...of course washed out and I can pre measure then suck it up with the wormer syringe...works great when needing to give milk of magnesia and pepto.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Well, I have some sad news to report. After spending a few days oozing mucous but not producing any kids or going into labor, we had let Pepper out of the kidding stall, figuring she was one of those who can lose their mucous plug a while before kidding.

I built new kidding stalls this past weekend and had penned up Pepper and her other daughter, Domino so I could keep a closer watch on them as they should be due any day. Poor Domino looks like she is auditioning for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, she is just so HUGE.

I went out this morning to feed and found that some time during the night Pepper had dropped a very tiny (nowhere near a size to be viable) kid...it was only about 6 or 8 inches long (that is with it stretched out with legs extended) so it wasn't even fully formed, though it was hard to tell much because it was all covered in dirt and ants. It looks like maybe the kid died in the womb and she just pushed it out.

She does not appear to be distressed or sick at all, though I am going to get a temp with I get home from work just to make sure.

I was also wondering if I should go ahead and dose her with an antibiotic just to be safe? If so, which do you recommend? The only thing I have on hand is LA 200, but I can easily get something else if it would work better.

Not a happy day on our little farm... :tears:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

:hug: sorry for the abortion

from the tennessee meat goat (onion creek ranch) website. on Kidding problems http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/preglactatingdoes06.html



> Abortions can be caused by bacterial or viral organisms, by the existence of specific conditions, by using certain medications, or by several other factors. Many organisms can cause a doe to abort. Some of them are Chlamydia (bacterial), Herpes (viral), Neospora caninum, Campylobacteriosis, Leptospirosis, Listeriosis, Salmonellosis, Q Fever, Akabane Virus, and Toxoplasmosis. The sudden onset of multiple abortions in a herd is called an abortion storm. Such situations present a potential herd-wide problem and necropsies should be done to find out the cause. Both the dead fetuses and all possible placenta material must be saved and taken to a vet or pathologist for evaluation. Some of these diseases are zoonotic (humans can catch them), so handle all aborted fetuses and placental material using disposable gloves.
> 
> Some abortions occur when a fetus does not develop properly; these "spontaneous abortions" or "miscarriages" ensure that a defective kid is not carried to term. A doe with a heavy wormload may abort. Severe anemia results from untreated wormloads, often killing both the fetuses and the pregnant doe. Abortion can happen when a doe is hit by another goat; the umbilical cord's connection to the abdominal wall is severed and the fetus dies in utero -- creating a toxic condition that often kills the doe. Certain deworming medications can cause abortions: Valbazen, Synanthic, and Levamisole have all be reported to induce abortions at various stages of pregnancy. Avoid using these dewormers with pregnant does.
> 
> A doe that hasn't received proper nutrition may abort. In fact, inadequate and/or improper nutrition is probably the most common cause of abortions.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I am so sorry :hug: 

She should "clean out" as with a normal delivery, meaning that all contents of the pregnant uterus will be expelled. Since you have found the fetus, there will likely be a placenta as well as fetal membranes, unless your LGD found them first.
Penicillan is an antibiotic comonly used for bacterial infections, I've no experience with LA200 so I can't say if that choice would do well or not.

Take her temp first before you start the "AB" and please treat her as you would any doe that has given birth, warm mollasses water, xtra hay and TLC.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

I am thinking the most likely culprit is physical trauma of some kind...she is one of the three bullies in my herd and they tend to rough-house ALOT. 

Pretty sure it's not a nutrition thing, since my goats all get rations of 16% goat feed, free choice loose minerals and baking soda, plus free choice coastal hay and frequently alfalfa hay as well...if anything they are overfed.

Now the wormload thing is a question, though I did worm with Ivomec about a month and a half ago. I think I will go ahead and re-worm everybody again, just in case.

I did have a run of pink-eye go through these 3 girls way back in Feb or so and treated with LA200. That would have been early on in their pregnancy or just before they settled.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Heres a link with some info on LA200
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=674&start=0

Would it be possible at all that she has more kids in there? If there are and they are dead as well, the uterus won't contract the way it should as it is the kids themselves that bring on labor.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

chlamydia can cause abortions and pinkeye. Might want to talk to a vet, becuase I think it is infectious. 
JMO

:hug: :hug:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

I am definitely worried about the possibility that there could be more kids in there...don't know how to check other than having an ultrasound done, though. I tried bouncing her but could not feel anything.

One thing that occurred to me was that it's possible that she did abort another kid back when she first had all of the goo. I thought it was impossible at the time because I could not find any evidence of a kid and assumed that I would be able to find SOMETHING even if the LGD had tried to eat it. Now, seeing how small this fetus is and how well it and the placenta were hidden once it was covered in dirt I have to admit that it could be possible for her to have passed a fetus and for the LGD to completely consume it overnight leaving no trace.

The only reason I found this one is that she was penned up in a kidding stall.

But, is is possible for a doe to birth a single fetus, then carry the other one for a month before aborting that one too?


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

AlaskaBoers said:


> chlamydia can cause abortions and pinkeye. Might want to talk to a vet, becuase I think it is infectious.
> JMO
> 
> :hug: :hug:


Yes, it can. That's why I treated for it back when they first showed symptoms about 5 months ago even though there were some questions about whether the treatment could adversely affect the babies...I figured I would take the small chance of birth defect in order to head off the much larger chance that the pinkeye would cause them to abort.

The other thing I wonder about is if the heat could be partially to blame. We've had about 20 days of record-breaking temps with nearly every day going well over 100 degrees. I've been doing everything I can to keep everybody cool and providing electrolytes and whatnot but it still has to be stressful for them.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

heat can make them miserable..just ask mine..though I cant imagine 100F, that could have been a factor.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

AlaskaBoers said:


> heat can make them miserable..just ask mine..though I cant imagine 100F, that could have been a factor.


Go set your oven to 105 degrees, wait for it to heat up, then stick your face right up to the door for a few seconds. Now imagine being totally surrounded by THAT. Ugh!

It has been as hot as 107 degrees here recently. I think we are all ready for fall!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry ...she miscarried..  ...I would recommend... you take her to your vet....and have her checked out......getting to the bottom of miscarriages... is important.... so it won't happen again...if it is caused by disease ect.. and this way ...your vet can recommend ...proper care.... if she hasn't cleaned out..  :hug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

my :2cents: is that back when you saw the brown goo stuff she was starting to clean out because the baby had died. It was my first thought but didnt want to panic you so I didnt say anything for a while till she seemed normal so I waited to hear how she did.

Now I would treat her like she has an infection since you have the LA 200 give that to her a rate of 1cc per 20lbs every other day for a couple days (like 2 or 3 shots). A dead kid can cause all sorts of problems

THe pink eye infection maybe to blame, I doubt the heat is.. Rarely do they abort that late if it is due to rough housing - that would be much earlier on in the pregnancy if that were to happen.

If it was due to Chlamydia then she is now immune to it and she wont abort due to that ever again. So thats good news.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

> when you saw the brown goo stuff she was starting to clean out because the baby had died. It was my first thought but didnt want to panic you so I didnt say anything for a while till she seemed normal so I waited to hear how she did.


I figured the same thing. One of my friends does had a brown discharge and she kidded with a stillborn and a live kid.

I'm so sorry.  At least you didn't loose momma.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

So maybe this is a crazy question, but can you milk a goat that has miscarried? I ask because I noticed that Pepper's udder still looked pretty full so I tried milking her just to see if there was anything any there. Sure enough she had quite a bit, though it was kind of a yucky yellow-ish color (colostrum?). I am wondering if I were to go ahead and keep milking her would she pick up her production and start giving regular milk after a while or if it is pointless and I should just let her dry off.

I just figured that since the reason I bred her in the first place was to get milk, if I can still get at least that then it wouldn't be a total loss. But if it won't work, or if it is bad for her, then I don't want to try.

Oh, and I went ahead and gave her a dose of the LA 200 as you suggested and will be repeating it every other day for a total of 3 shots just to make sure there is no lingering infection from the dead kid. She is certainly not acting abnormal and was running around the pasture being all crazy and frisky today like nothing ever happened. I also took her temp and it was 102.9 so I guess it might be slightly elevated (Fiasco Farm says normal is between 102.6 and 104?), but then again it was like 106 degrees here today and she made me chase her FOREVER before I could catch her and get her on the milkstand for her shot so that could have had something to do with it...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, if she has made an udder as well as colostrum, milk her out. Milk her 2x a day and either dump the colostrum for the first 4 days or give it to the pup, there is a milk withdrawal of 6 days after the last shot....you can either give it to the critters or wash it down the drain. Continue to milk 2x a day for however long she's going to go or until she is ready to breed again.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yup you can milk her -- I wouldnt drink the colostrum though LOL

As to the temp - sounds normal to me. Only if it goes above 104 do I worry and in the winter if it goes above 103 then I start watching them. Average is around 102 but it can be as low as 101.5


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