# ELLIE THE DUMPED GOAT - SAD UPDATE



## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Well, we may now know why someone dumped her. She has tested positive for CL. She developed an abcess on her chest (not the usual spot near a lymph) - and our vet did the test. 
We are in shock and not sure how we are going to proceed. I've sent word to Potsie's owner. Out goat friends are telling us Dorothy and Tiny are too young to be tested. 
We do not have isolation capabilities should we decide to have the vet lance and clean. We just dont know what to do. Can I have your thoughts please. And what happens if a human gets it? So much to decipher.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Oh no!! I'm so sorry you are going through this!! I will be keeping you in my thoughts and payers. 😔🙏 

Maybe @Debra P would have some advice... I know she has helped a few goats with CL. Here's a link to a thread she started CL in goats 

Again, I'm so sorry hear that poor Ellie has CL. Hope you are able to figure something out! 🥰


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

People don't get CL.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Oh no! Did your vet run a culture on the pus from the abscess?


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I am so sorry that this has happened. But now she cant be blamed... or dumped agaon... poor baby. Poor you. You did not know... your heart was in the right place.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Oh no! Did your vet run a culture on the pus from the abscess?


No She ran a blood test. We have not yet decided if we are going to have her lance it.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> People don't get CL.


Wow I hope that is true I have read in a couple places it can be passed, although rarely - to humans.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Tanya said:


> I am so sorry that this has happened. But now she cant be blamed... or dumped agaon... poor baby. Poor you. You did not know... your heart was in the right place.


We would never dump her that is about the most cowardly thing anyone can do to any animal. We have a closed herd - just her, Dorothy and Tiny. We arent going to breed - show, buy or sell. We simply wanted to give Ellie a good home. We will most likely vaccinate all - perhaps start her on some Draxxin (another poster swears it helps) - and let them all live their best lives. I just don't want it to spread and we will have to prevent that however we can.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Alyce said:


> No She ran a blood test. We have not yet decided if we are going to have her lance it.


I asked because testing pus is the most accurate way of determining if it's a CL abscess or not. The blood test is not always accurate.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Alyce said:


> We would never dump her that is about the most cowardly thing anyone can do to any animal. We have a closed herd - just her, Dorothy and Tiny. We arent going to breed - show, buy or sell. We simply wanted to give Ellie a good home. We will most likely vaccinate all - perhaps start her on some Draxxin (another poster swears it helps) - and let them all live their best lives. I just don't want it to spread and we will have to prevent that however we can.


I didnt mean you would. I am so sorry. That came out so wrong. I was speaking as if I was talking to the unknowledged person that did dump her. 🤗.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. 

Poor goat.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> I asked because testing pus is the most accurate way of determining if it's a CL abscess or not. The blood test is not always accurate.


Yes we are aware of that - thank you for bringing it up as you know we are new to all of this. We are running another blood test and if/when the vet lances she will send that in as well.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Tanya said:


> I didnt mean you would. I am so sorry. That came out so wrong. I was speaking as if I was talking to the unknowledged person that did dump her. 🤗.


I know - no offense taken and no need to apologize. Our emotions are all so raw right now. Is the right thing to do put her down? I don't even want to think about that.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Oh no. Why not let her live a good life. If the vet can lance and confirm properly then the answer will be clearer.


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Its probably best to cull her. And CL is not transmissible to humans.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

CL is controllable if you want to do the hard work. 
Do wait until the cyst is ripe before lancing. La cing too soon may not get you the best sample to test and can cause infection. Draxxin has been shown to help. There is a link to scientific study in either the CL conversion thread or CAE conversion thread. Can't remember as both were discussed. 
To take care of her...she needs to be separated when the cyst becomes soft. Before it ruptures. Lancing and cleaning it before it ruptures helps keep it off your property. It will need to be flushed 3 or 4 times a day for several days until the wall of the cyst thins indicating infection is gone. Allowing to close too soon will more than likely form another cyst. Need to get all that bacteria out of there. If you want full details on lancing and caring for CL. I'm happy to offer that. Shes definitely not a loss cause..but you need to take great care with biosecurity.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

happybleats said:


> CL is controllable if you want to do the hard work.
> Do wait until the cyst is ripe before lancing. La cing too soon may not get you the best sample to test and can cause infection. Draxxin has been shown to help. There is a link to scientific study in either the CL conversion thread or CAE conversion thread. Can't remember as both were discussed.
> To take care of her...she needs to be separated when the cyst becomes soft. Before it ruptures. Lancing and cleaning it before it ruptures helps keep it off your property. It will need to be flushed 3 or 4 times a day for several days until the wall of the cyst thins indicating infection is gone. Allowing to close too soon will more than likely form another cyst. Need to get all that bacteria out of there. If you want full details on lancing and caring for CL. I'm happy to offer that. Shes definitely not a loss cause..but you need to take great care with biosecurity.


We are worried about human infection - specifically grandchildren ! I know a couple people on here say it is not transmissable to humans but everything I am reading says it indeed is.

If you would care to share more details that would be great. Our vet would do the lancing with the assistant of our two goat mentors. I guess it would be up to us to do the flushing though afterwards. Feel free to email me at [email protected] - it will be into next week before anything further is done. As of now the cyst is hard. Very hard.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

There is conflicting Information on CL being contagious to humans. Most data shows only animal to animal. A few resources state "*potentially transmissible to humans"*
Err on the safe side.. Protective care with gloves and safety glasses are not too far fetch, as with anything there is uncertainty, and we should be proactive. Your grandchildren will be fine..just keep them away from her when cyst is ripe. 
Since your vet will do the lancing...if that is done at home...have a tarp on the ground where the vet will work. Ask for a x cut which less likely to dcab over too quickly.. you don't want to have to re-lance if possible.. Have zip lock baggies or a plastic garbage bag available for all material used to be tossed and burned. Let no pus, blood or tools used to touch any ground. The vet will need to really flush and squeeze the pus out. I will warn you, this Is not comfortable for the goat, but the more the vet gets out the first round the better. The vet can use wads of paper towels to catch and absorb any fluids. Other wise if he let's the gunk hit the tarp..you will need to toss it. 
After the vet is done..use disinfectant wipes or diluted bleach water to wipe down the goat in case any pus got on her. You will need to wash her hooves with a mild bleach solution or iodine solution. Do this before she steps onto your dirt. 
To flush, you want her on a tarp..you want a big wad of paper towels. You can use a weak iodine solution...iodine diluted with saline to a weak tea look. Use a 6 cc syringe no needle and draw some up..begin flushing the cyst catching everything in wads of paper towels. Change wad of paper towels as needed. Flush until looks fairly clean. Do this 3 to 4 times a day. Toss everything in a zip lock or garbage bag. Always use a new syring and tools..clean rubber gloves ect. Fold the tarp up inward to reuse unless it got pus on it. Small areas can be bleached. 
Feeders she uses need to be bleached between meals. Water dish needs to be bleaches everytime you go flush. Just to aid in preventing reinvention. 

You could try the Draxxin route first. I can find that info for you to share with your vet if you like.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Thank you and yes please do.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=3043&S=6


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I want to add...if lancing..please cover the cyst with a few layers of gauze to help prevent draining on the ground and keeps flies out. The pen she stays in should be set up far away from regular goat and sheep areas. Ideas would be a car port, or side yard. Once she is well and back with the herd..bleach the fencing used.and if on concrete..bleach the floor area, if dirt...remove about 6 inches of top soil and bleach the area well. Allow to dry. Use this pen if by chance you have another CL to deal with. 
Some say CL lives in soil 2 years..other up to 10. Not sure if there is new info out there on that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Do it on a painter's tarp. Roll the whole thing up with all used supplies inside. Bag it up and have the vet take it to put with biowaste.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

happybleats said:


> http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=3043&S=6


thank you. Printed and sending to vet and mentors.


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## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

I hope it is okay to link other websites. I get alot of info from this website as well and here is one of two articles she has on CL

https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadeb.html 

There is another article to this but has an earlier date.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

tiffin said:


> I hope it is okay to link other websites. I get alot of info from this website as well and here is one of two articles she has on CL
> 
> https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadeb.html
> 
> There is another article to this but has an earlier date.


Thank you. The more I read the more hopeful I become. We aren't trying to sell, show, buy more goats - we just want the 3 we have to havve good lives and these articles make that seem possible. Not without much work, however.


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## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

Alyce said:


> Thank you. The more I read the more hopeful I become. We aren't trying to sell, show, buy more goats - we just want the 3 we have to havve good lives and these articles make that seem possible. Not without much work, however.


I do remember seeing her write one time that out of all the goat diseases, CL is the most manageable and least of her worries if that helps any


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

UPDATE; 9/26/21 - Vet came - lanced, drained and flushed out the abcess. The goo was like a long snake it was pretty solid. Ellie was also given a good dose of Draxxin. She took a good sample - but nothing is growing in the culture. She says its a non answer because this probably means the bacteria is dead in the sample. 
So - then is it possible we will never know? Also - Tiny and Dorothy received the vax as well as Ellie. 2nd doses in 4 weeks. 
Husband is flushing it every day. 
Any thoughts? She is in isolation.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd say let it heal up and go from there. I haven't known CL pus to be like that but who knows. Almost sounds promising.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...flush until cyst wall thins..then let her heal up and play the wait game for any more showing up.
Strange the vet didn't send the sample out to be sure 😕


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

happybleats said:


> I agree...flush until cysteine wall thins..then let her heal up and play the wait game for any more showing up.
> Strange the vet didn't send the sample out to be sure 😕


Yes - the vet did sent the sample out but she is saying the bacteria is dead therefore nothing growing on culture. Does this make sense?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very strange.
It is a wait and see thing unless you want to do a blood test, especially if the sample which was taken is so called dead.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> Very strange.
> It is a wait and see thing unless you want to do a blood test, especially if the sample which was taken is so called dead.


Isn't that the strangest thing - that its dead? She took a good amount too I watched her. Anyway we did a blood test over a month ago and it was positive which is why we wanted to make sure with the pus. we've read that there are many false positives with the blood.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Its very strange. I have never heard of that. If she had any pus left..you could collect it and send it off yourself, but I'm thinking by now shouldn't have any pus left.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Alyce said:


> We will most likely vaccinate all - perhaps start her on some Draxxin (another poster swears it helps) - and let them all live their best lives.


Did Ellie receive treatment with Draxxin?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes it is strange.
I am thinking the vet may not know what they are talking about.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

So....the culture ia finally growing albeit slowly and only 1 gr of bacteria which isnt yet identified. WADDL says trust this sample but we are sending serology sample to them as well. We are now somewhat hopeful this is not cl


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

That's good


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Here is praying for you


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good to hear. Still rooting for you.


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## Alyce (Feb 13, 2021)

Well....the pus culture has confirmed a slow growth of the bacteria in CL. Waiting on Serology from waddl but its pretty much definite. Her incision is very well healed after a 10 day or so flushing. We are letting her ba k in with tiny ans dorothy in a couple days and will cross rhe next abcess bridge when it comes. Hoping draxxin is as good as everyone says and second set of vaxes add to the prolonged dormancy.. thanks for all well wishes. So strange because she has never looked better. Still a bit nervous with grand kids tho.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

🙏🙏


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

🙏


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

As long as no pus there is no risk for spreading it. Once healed grandkids and all will be safe. Sorry that showed positive 😔 but some goats never get another cyst..so maybe the draxxin will help that as well. 

Best wishes


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