# Found a Great mineral mix!!!



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Had Matt the vet out today to look at a couple of does that we suspected had pneumonia, and both indeed do. But while he was here we got into talking about this mineral mix I recently came across. He didnt know that CHS had made a balanced goat mineral mix but had been using the CHS (Payback) sheep mix for his goats and sheep but was happy to see it. He has been to a number of CHS seminars and confirmed that the amino acid complex bases where outstanding. Its in fact CHSs calm to fame as one of the very few companies that broke away from the sulfate and oxide based minerals. They scientifically set out to make better mineral mixes that are actually effective.

Well after showing him the label, he informed us we didnt need to use the Multimin90 shots because the amino based minerals are so well absorbed. We will still keep up with the twice a year bo-se shots as mixes all use the same non organic selenium base and this mineral mix only has 1/3 of our old premix. So kinda exciting to have Matt confirm that this is really a good mix. I have had out two, 3 gallon buckets of minerals out. One of our old premix and one of this CHS brand. I wanted to see if the animals would naturally prefer the mix that works better. And they do! There is maybe 2 or 3 inches of the old mix gone. But the new mix is nearly half gone already. So either their bodies are telling them its better or they enjoy the flavor better. Or maybe both. I tried them both (I always try everything I expect the goats to consume) and they both tasted about the same.

So I will be updated my website with links to this mineral mix. Just wanted to let everyone know, this is indeed a great mix and if you can find it in your area, its well worth it. Label and dealer locator links below.

http://www.paybackfeeds.com/tag_book/doc...inPlus.pdf

http://paybacknutrition.com/dealerlocator.html


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> I tried them both (I always try everything I expect the goats to consume) and they both tasted about the same.


I do the exact same thing for both my goats and my parrots and everyone thinks I'm nuts. lol


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

Good to know!! Same one I had decided to change to just last night.


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## AriesBis (Jul 30, 2014)

Love Matt the Vet!

great info. I'm getting ready to stock up for the month. I'll give it a try!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good to know.... Looks like the store in Enumclaw carries it I'm almost out of kelp meal, so I'll pick them both up in a few weeks You try everything, really? Never thought about that..


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

That's cool, I've always used the CHS payback cattle minerals (ultramin) and my goats did fantastic on them...I bet the goat mix is even better!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I switched a couple weeks ago :lol: The little hardware store that carries them is 14 miles closer than my normal feed store.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wish it was available around here , maybe in the future


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If you dont have it in your area. You could see what brand of feeds your feed store carries and then do a search for their website. Goats dont get much love so feed stores dont carry much for them. You might find that the manufacturer makes a decent mineral mix but the store just isnt carrying it. Then it would just be a matter of asking them to order some.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Can't get it up here. sigh The search continues.


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## SerenitySquare (Jun 28, 2014)

I switched my goats to the Payback goat mineral a couple weeks ago and they love it. Even the babies are gobbling it up. I used ot use the manna pro one and a small bag lasted almost a year. I bet they have gone through almost that much in two weeks.
Nice to hear the Vet thought it was good as well. One of the ladies I got my goats from on your side of our state told me about it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks.for the info...ill be checking here


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

This sounds awesome, Dave - thanks for sharing! I hope I hope one day soon they'll expand to distribute down here!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Payback also has the best grain mixes for the money you can buy. I used to use them years ago and am happy to see them moving back in to my area.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Payback also has the best grain mixes for the money you can buy. I used to use them years ago and am happy to see them moving back in to my area.


Really? The next time I'm out at the Enumclaw store, I'm going to check it out... On their website Sumner Animal Grubb is still on the list of stores that carry their product..., they've closed down, it's now a car lot...;( That would have been MUCH closer...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

We have been using their Kountry Buffet for years  The plant that mixes it pretty much determines the quality but for the most part, a very good clean all stock grain.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I used to use their Boer goat developer to raise my pack boys, back when I had many more. Really really great feed...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Cool! I'm searching for a new feed anyway... My crew doesn't like the non GMO feed, not even the boys.... Trying to get away from Nutrena products, so I'm on the hunt..


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## AriesBis (Jul 30, 2014)

Well I picked up some of this mineral and my girls really seem to enjoy it! It costs a little more than my old mineral but I believe its a bigger bag. 

The only goat grain I found was the Boer goat grain. I have dairy girls so I'll have to ask if they carry a dairy goat feed.

Thank you again for posting this. My goats are much happier with this mineral.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

AriesBis said:


> Well I picked up some of this mineral and my girls really seem to enjoy it! It costs a little more than my old mineral but I believe its a bigger bag.
> 
> The only goat grain I found was the Boer goat grain. I have dairy girls so I'll have to ask if they carry a dairy goat feed.
> 
> Thank you again for posting this. My goats are much happier with this mineral.


You can find a great selection of payback feeds at the Ki Bi Red market in Benton City. They also have a couple of bags of the mineral mix left. 11.99 for kountry buffet and 29.99 for the mineral mix.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Why can't i have stores like those ^^near me :GAAH:


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## Tapestry (Feb 5, 2015)

Seriously! The only mineral mix anywhere around me is Manna Pro, that's it. I can get Sweetlix, if I drive 100 miles and preorder it.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I confess , i can get Onyx and Manna Pro and a few others , but i would LOVE to have a TSC and other livestock stores near me.
My feed stores all cater to horses really….and the Agways around here carry very few items for goats , mostly lawn and garden stuff..
And of course chicks galore in the Springtime…but thats it.


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## AriesBis (Jul 30, 2014)

I went to Ranch and Home in Kennewick. They have a lot of the payback feeds. I thought I saw goat feed before but, of course, when Im ready to buy I dont see it. lol. next time Im in Benton City I will check out the feed store.


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## Jasmar (Mar 28, 2015)

I asked at two local feed stores, both of which were listed as dealers. Neither carried the goat minerals, but one was happy to call the company and add a bag to their regular order for me. I'll be picking it up tomorrow. 

Isn't it silly what we get excited about when it comes to the goaties?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its only been like 2 months and my girls are still gobbling this stuff up. Am into our 4th bag of it. I cant believe how deficient they were. They are literally taking mouth fulls of it when I fill up their empty mineral feeder. Going to hit them all again with a multimin 90 shot in hopes that jumps their levels up enough for them to slow down on the mix. They are going to start eating me outta house and home if they dont slow down


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

I decided to try to find the payback minerals after reading this post. My goats haven't been doing as well this spring and i figured out that they have hardly been eating their minerals. I put out the payback today and had to refill it twice just this afternoon. I really hope this helps them, I wish I'd been using this over the last two years! Found out a feed store 5 miles from me carries it.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I have been using Fertrell's Premier Goat Mineral with my goats....in their feed. Don't think I am giving enough to them though. I doubt they would eat it on their own. I put out free choice sweetlix mineral. They hate it. Ugh! So that is out. 

So I will try the payback. There are a couple stores near me that are listed that carry it. Will call them.

This is what is in Fertrell Premier Goat Minerals:
Calcium min 14%
Calcium max 16%
Phos min 9%
Salt min .5%
Salt max 1.0%
Magnesium min 4%
Selenium min 30 ppm
Selenium max 33 ppm
Zinc min 3000 ppm
Copper min 2200 ppm
Copper max 2300 ppm
Vit A min 350000 IU/lb
Vit D3 min 80000 IU/lb
Vit E min 3500 IU/lb

Ingredients: MonoCalcium Phosphate, Organic Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Organic Kelp Meal, Active Dry Yeast, Dried Aspergillus oryzae, Fermentation extract, Dried Lactobacillus, acidophilus Fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation poduct, Drived Lactobacillus plantarium fermentation product, Magnesium Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vit A Supplement, Vit D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, Copper Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex of zinc, Polysaccharide Complex of magnese, Polysaccharide complex of iron, Polysaccharide complex of copper, cobalt sulfate, organic vegetable oil

I wish they would like this stuff because it is probably in some ways better than the payback brand you found. 

It looks like the payback is better in some areas and the Fertrell is better in other areas. 

But I need them to eat the stuff! 

The payback is so high in salt.....so do you not give them any salt?

Thanks for sharing this brand of minerals with us! I want something they love!

What color is it Dave?

Tami


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I was reading on the payback website (see below) So since your goats are eating it so fast....is that good for them? Sorry I am new to goats, so I am asking. They obviously would be getting alot of salt in this mineral right ? Because it is pretty high in salt. So just wondering since it says for them only to have max 3/4 oz of mineral a day:

*Consumption will vary with the type of ration being fed and the individual appetites of animals. With most feeding conditions, consumption should be approximately 0.5 to 0.75 ounces per head per day. If consumption is excessive, offer additional salt free choice in a separate feeder. If less than desired, remove supplemental salt.*


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

janeen128 said:


> Cool! I'm searching for a new feed anyway... My crew doesn't like the non GMO feed, not even the boys.... Trying to get away from Nutrena products, so I'm on the hunt..


Janeen, 
This store in Graham WA has this mineral and Payback feed.
http://www.yellowpages.com/graham-wa/mip/graham-hay-market-8089964\
Although Country Farm and Feed does have CHS products and would probably get what you wanted if you talked to Bill.

This same feed store talked me into the same mineral Dave started this thread with and others have used, and my goats too are eating the living heck out of it. Way more than the Sweetlix "meat maker" that I had been using. They are probably going through 2 pounds a day. Good thing the mineral comes in 50lb sacks. Most of my does are having a little trouble with loose stools at the moment, but they are getting a lot of lush green pasture, so I can't really blame the mineral. It's just that I do feed orchard grass hay twice a day and the new mineral consumption definitely is a change in diet.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> Janeen,
> 
> This store in Graham WA has this mineral and Payback feed.
> 
> ...


Cool, thank you Tim. I'm actually out near Graham more than I am in Enumclaw, so I will swing by there... Been busy, so I've just been using Manna Pro and Nutrena feed right now... Thanks again


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

I too have recently discovered CHS minerals. I am using PNW ULTRAMIN 12-6 Se for cattle. I really like the ingredient list and so far, the goats really like it


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Just to answer a question. No, no worries that they are eating so much so fast. This is the animal trying to get its mineral levels to where they should be. They should slow down as they do. Second, the salt level is at a good level. Once our girls level out we are also thinking of filling a second salt feeder with another CHS brand mix that is about 90% salt. This way they will have the option of both. The 90% salt has a usable copper but the other trace minerals are sulfate. So no worry about them getting to much minerals if they are just going after the salt. I will get the tag info and post more details.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

PippasCubby,
Are they eating it well? I notice your mineral has twice the copper.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Tenacross, the ones i have given it to are eating it well. I am still working through my last bag of other type of mineral with the others :grin:


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok finally hit the store and picked up the bag of salt with trace minerals. Its called True Trace Minerals. I did a search but the name is so generic that I couldnt come up with anything. Even visiting the Payback website didnt help. I did notice however that they do have a nutrition consulting page. Here is the link. http://paybacknutrition.com/nutritionconsulting.html

So I guess Ill have to do this the old fashion way. Type it 

TRUE TRACE MINERAL (CHS Payback) 4978 is the product number

Salt: Not less then 91% / Not more then 96%.
Cobalt: Not less then 15 ppm (Cobalt Carbonate)
Copper: Not less then 1,600 ppm (Basic Copper Chloride)
Iodine: Not less then 80 ppm (Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide) Dont ask I have no idea 
Manganese: Not less then 1,800 ppm (Manganese Sulfate) 
Selenium: Not less then 120 ppm (Sodium Selenite)
Zinc: Not less then 7,300 ppm (Zinc Sulfate)

Ok so here is the need to know. This is not a mineral mix. This is a trace mineral SALT mix. The main function of this is for the salt. Anything else they get outta it is gravy.  I love this as a side by side to the 16-8 goat mineral plus. The 16-8 is pretty low in salt and lower then I personally like in selenium at 50 ppm. Our old mix was 160-180 ppm and that was the only mineral our goats where in the normal range with. So with this having such a high selenium ppm, it adds perfectly to the 16-8 mix. But with the salt level being so high, you dont really have to worry about them getting to much selenium either. With the zinc, manganese being sulfate base, dont have to worry about this trace mineral mix adding to much more with the amino complex base of the 16-8 mix. I really like that the copper is a usuable copper as thats about the hardest mineral to keep at a good level in a goat. So both mixes have usable copper.

So in my personal opinion this should be feed next to (not mixed in with) the 16-8 goat mineral plus mix. Giving the goat the option of salt with a little selenium, copper and other good trace minerals (cobalt / iodine) OR the low salt higher levels of usable minerals from the 16-8 plus.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Heading out to Graham to get some of this mineral... Just ran out of the manna pro last week... Going to look at some feed options too.... Since my girls are just picking at their grain, so I will check some of those as well...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, got the Payback dairy feed, but they were out of the mineral. I'll be going back on Thursday... Hoping my girls will like this feed...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, after a couple times of going to Graham to find the mineral, they were always sold out, made 3 trips there, so I called the Enumclaw store and yes, they do carry it, and yes I got some


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I'd be interested to see if they prefer one over the other over time Dave....please keep us posted on their usage.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, filled the mineral feeders up, and within an hour it was half gone... They've been without minerals for a little over a week now though....


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## Jasmar (Mar 28, 2015)

Our three were fighting over the mineral bucket this evening. Now I know how they always spill it. They love this stuff!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We use sea90 loose salt...it has 90 different minerals in it..as Dave said. This is not a supplement to loose minerals..its salt but the extra is gravy ..my goats eat it like candy. ..i cant find a really nice mineral..but my goats seem to like what we have..BUT heres a question. I was told the redder the mineral the higher the iron which doesnt help us who are copper deficient....our mineral is pretty red...any thoughts?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

My thoughts are they would be in big trouble if they didn't give you an accurate accounting of how much iron is in the mineral.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Ohhh , very interesting Cathy !


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I thought the red was more that the minerals were oxides so not absorbed as well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it could be Karen..this is one area I need to study more...lol...but yes..the amount of iron is listed...just a passing thought way too late in the day lol..Ill find the tag and post it here...I don't like the smell either...very medicated smell to it, but the goats gobble every bit up...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Holy Moly folks, this is the 3rd time I had to fill their mineral feeder up, this has never happened with the other brands of minerals..... They are looking good too My mineral feeders are pretty small, holds about 5 cups. I'm pretty excited about this..


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

WOW! Finally got my boys a bowl full of this stuff about 3 cups, it was all gone within an hour and a half... Didn't realize how deficient they were... I think I'll get 2 bags the next time I go if this keeps up...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

We got our liver test results back. Granted the animals had only been on this mix for about 2 months. And this doe did get 1 1/2 total cc of multimin90 over the last 6 months. All our levels were in the normal range. It was the low side of normal but significantly better the the low side of deficient. Id guess it will be a full year before we get back to normal / normal. There was one thing that was a little odd. The iron level was a bit into the high range. Its odd cause we dont have virtually no iron in our water. Other then the 300 feet of steel casing that is slowly rusting. And I mean slowly, as you need oxygen for that and there just isnt any down there at 300-500 feet. Thinking it might be coming from our alfalfa. OR the few weeds that manage to grow here. In any event, its not at a level to worry much about. Just weird.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Are you using steel water tanks?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I found this mineral which is a lot easier to get a hold of where payback doesn't distribute to. I actually just found out that most True Value hardware stores will ship it to their store for free! I contacted ADM feeds for an ingredient list just a couple minutes ago, so maybe by monday I'll get it.
Very high in copper, and very high in zinc, way more than I'm used to seeing. Not sure if it's too high? Even at 5000ppm some of mine still get that fired hair look.
http://www.admani.com/Horse/Products/Horse Grostrong Minerals.htm


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Are you using steel water tanks?


Why would that make a difference Jill ? Curious..


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Nope no steel tanks. PVC pipe in the well with stainless steel couplings is about it. Oh and frost free hydrants. Thats all the metal there is.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Man I wonder how much of this mineral one could stuff in a large flat rate box. lol I really need to find a better solution than $20 for an 8# bag of manna pro!


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I found this mineral which is a lot easier to get a hold of where payback doesn't distribute to. I actually just found out that most True Value hardware stores will ship it to their store for free! I contacted ADM feeds for an ingredient list just a couple minutes ago, so maybe by monday I'll get it.
> Very high in copper, and very high in zinc, way more than I'm used to seeing. Not sure if it's too high? Even at 5000ppm some of mine still get that fired hair look.
> http://www.admani.com/Horse/Products/Horse Grostrong Minerals.htm


Hmmm, that is quite a high zinc level, isn't it. Time to do some reading! :book: It's a bit high in salt as well. That's the problem with the Southern States cattle mineral I'm using now too, high salt. But, we have enough goaties now that MannaPro Minerals have become cost prohibitive. I must say though, my herd really likes this, and seems to be doing well on it...:chin:











Dayna said:


> Man I wonder how much of this mineral one could stuff in a large flat rate box. lol I really need to find a better solution than $20 for an 8# bag of manna pro!


Wow, and I thought $10 for a bag of Manna Pro was too much!!:shocked: Do you guys have True Value Hardware Stores over there, you could get free shipping on the one Lacie posted about. :lol: I can't imagine what folks off of the main continent of the U.S. have to go through to get things we take for granted here on the mainland. :hair:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

This is what I currently use http://biozymebackoffice.com/public/pdfs/pds/4-vitaferm-concept-aid-5-s
costs me $56 for a 50lb bag and the only feed stores that can order it for me are ones that distribute Associated feeds.

Sorry to hijack Dave!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I found this mineral which is a lot easier to get a hold of where payback doesn't distribute to. I actually just found out that most True Value hardware stores will ship it to their store for free! I contacted ADM feeds for an ingredient list just a couple minutes ago, so maybe by monday I'll get it.
> Very high in copper, and very high in zinc, way more than I'm used to seeing. Not sure if it's too high? Even at 5000ppm some of mine still get that fired hair look.
> http://www.admani.com/Horse/Products/Horse%20Grostrong%20Minerals.htm


The problem is, ever mineral in this mix is oxide or sulfate based. No better or worse then any other mineral mix with the same bases.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

*Finally got Payback Minerals at our feed store*

Special ordered the Payback minerals. $36 for a 50lb bag. They are definitely using it. I have the old loose mineral and the new both out in separate spots. Both are being used along with the cobalt and sea salt blocks.

Question for you DAve....why is there such a difference in the color of the minerals? The old mineral is Golden Blend from Hoeggers. It has a dark brown look to most of the granules. The Payback 16-8 is grey in color. Just really curious as to the huge difference in mineral color.....Any ideas?:book:


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If I had to guess, which I kinda do, Id say its the molasses. There is none in the payback brand. Add to that, that the largest % of the payback brand is calcium and I could see why the payback brand is much lighter. We have never used a mix that had molasses in it. All the ones we ever used were much the same color as the payback brand.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

curious about this one..its the best we can find in our area...my goats gobble it up but still Im needing to copper bolus at least every 3 months but by the time that time is up..they already look bad again...so Im thinking every 2 months..but man..that costs!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Cathy, is the copper in that 425-510ppm? That's why you need to bolus ever 2-3 months. Even if a mineral is sulfate based, while not the best source, it keeps their levels high enough if it's in a high ppm range, if they eat it every day. I bolus twice a year, with a mineral shot in between times.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..little bits..copper is 425-510...ugh..i will search for a better mineral...not alot of choices near me


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Someone (a customer) at the feed store pointed me to this? What do you think? She doesn't copper bolus and from her pics of her herd they look great. http://www.biozymeproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=11330


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## LGFarm01 (Jul 22, 2014)

I got tired of looking for "the Perfect Supplement", so we went to Replamin. I give everyone a round every 1 - 2 weeks and they finally look great. We used Vita-ferm concept aid on the cows and they never shedded out last year. We went to Min-a-vit lite from Blue Seal on a regular bases and a shot of Replamin every once in a while for them and they finally look great, black and shiny too. Sweetlix is our free-choice option, but on it's own, they can't consume enough to make a difference.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Yes..little bits..copper is 425-510...ugh..i will search for a better mineral...not alot of choices near me


Cathy -- those of us in Texas are really fortunate -- Purina has a "wind & rain - storm" mix that is AWESOME!!! 2:1 calciumhosphorus ratio, 2100 (or maybe 2500...don't have the label in front of me) ppm copper. My goats are doing incredible on it. I did have to bolus my black roan buck a couple of times to bring his deficiency up a bit more quickly, but my brown girls have coats with the look and feel of satin -- even the two that had been so very, very sick for an extended time! I am thrilled with this mix, which was suggested to me by Onion Creek Ranch. It's what she uses with her TMG's and TexMasters. Purina produces several mixes under this brand name -- I'll try to look up the actual product number and get it to you. Or you can call your feed store...ask for the "7.5" To the best of my knowledge, this mix is ONLY available in Texas.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks top_goat...i appreciate that. I usually avoid all Purina. .good to hear they have a good mineral! I going to town today..i will look around .....


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