# KIDS ARE HERE, BUT PROBLEM - HELP!



## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Lady kidded twins, a doe and buck. The buck was very slow to get up and is still not moving well after an hour and a half. Very weak, no suck reflex. I've milked out colostrum and dribbled about 15 cc down him in 2 hours. He can't seem to get warm. We run the hair dryer on him (it's 55 outside here) and then he shivers when it's off. His back legs seem to drag when he does stand and try to walk. I've given him selenium/vitamin E gel and a couple shots of Nutri-Drench. Would some B12 injection perk him up? I'm afraid he won't make it without some more intervention and I'm at a loss! Thanks for help!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give him some B Complex injected. Also, put him in your shirt and get him warm. That is probably the most important. I hope he pulls through for you.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Also, I use a heating pad, and someone said to make a hot water bath and put the kid in a sack then into the water. I agree warm is the most important right now


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I've said it before and I'll say it again....a tablespoon of whiskey down his throat (mixed with some milk to cut the burn) will help with some quick energy too. It's an old cow-man's remedy and we've used it on every kind of animal we've ever had on this farm.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Did you get a temp? Or are you assuming he is cold? If he is sub temp.. be sure not to feed him until his temp is at least 100 degree's...

Giving him selenium/vitamin E gel and a couple shots of Nutri-Drench...was good to give ..... that is what I would of recommended...

If his temp is OK then feed the baby....I use a syringe( no needle)...and put my index finger in the mouth mimicking momma's teat...I slightly move it in and out.. still leaving it in the mouth and very slowly will give some milk/colostrum to the baby at the back corner of the mouth..with lots of breaks in between ....Also... have someone else tickle the tailhead area along the back at the same time.....keep trying ...until you get that suck reflex...when this happens put him on mom..... 

Congrats on the kidding.... :hug:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Of all the things I DID think to do, duh, I didn't think to get his temp. I did get 15 cc of colostrum down him just the way you described, Toth Boer, and I gave him a cc of B complex. He has nursed a few times successfully on his own, but his back legs still give way and he goes down after a short while. We have a heated drum in the kidding stall and I put them both in there. I've got the cam on them so I can keep a little bit of a watch on them tonight from the couch and check every few hours. I'm just a little less than optimistic about his prognosis by morning. I don't have any whiskey to try. I'll check his temp on my next trek out.

This is the first year I'm weighing my kids. Nubian and meat goat folks, don't these weights of 5-8 and 5-10 sound small to you? She's a big Nubian crossed with a Savanna buck. I would have expected 7 or 8 pound twins. Today was day 149 - I witnessed the breed and have kept careful dates. Oh yeah, another assisted delivery - her second year in a row. Doe presented one leg forward, one leg back. I couldn't find the other leg, hubby had luck and pulled her out. Go hubby!!!  

Two more to go probably within the next day or so - lots more mucus today. (It may be a looonnnnnng night!) 

Thanks everybody for the help, esp. Liz who has answered her phone promptly 2 kidding seasons in a row when I've been in a tight spot! :grouphug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad that he has nursed a few times on his own that is a great sign. He may be low Selenium but should improve with that since you gave the Selenium paste. ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Don't feel bad...we all have been there it is kinda like a brain freeze.... we all get them.... :wink: 

You are doing great....and if he is suckling from his momma that is a really good sign...go out every 2 hours and make sure he gets the teat... the b vitamin will help with appetite.... Glad he got his colostrum....

Give the selenium time... it may take a week for his legs to get better... what I do to help them more is ...I brace the weak leg or legs....make sure.. the baby can still get up and down to rest.... I leave it on for 1 week then remove it... to see how they are doing ...if the leg isn't quite there yet.. I re- brace it for a few more days.... I use regular sticks...making sure there are no sharp points on them......Popsicle sticks can be used as well ...I use duct tape and put it all around the stick ...so it is cushioned to not hurt the kid...but before I tape the stick ...I measure... to make sure... it is high enough but yet ...not to high so that it does not get in the way....for the baby to do normal things...then.. I take a couple of thin strips of the duct tape and tape one on the top area of the stick to around the leg...and one on the bottom area around the leg...very lightly stick it to the hair...then... put the baby down and make it walk ..to see if it is being supported in the right spot...if it isn't ....I reposition the sticks and tape...(that is why I said put it on lightly now) ...when all is good then... I push the tape down real good ...all the way around the leg and put a strip of tape in the middle as well.... it sticks good to the hair....but yet allows the leg to breath.....cause the strips of tape are thin... The baby won't be happy when you have to take off the tape...so be prepared... these braces will help him be able to stay on his feet better and walk.....

Get a temp first ..he might not be actually cold ..temp wise but.. he may of been hungry before.... because he is sounding better to be nursing off momma and getting the colostrum he needs in his belly....

Glad you have heat out in the barn for the new babies.... :wink: 

Yes ..they do seem small....with birth weights.... 

Give your hubby a :hug: way to go hubby~! 

Sounds like you are getting busy with kidding...hope all goes well....Happy Kidding.... :hi5:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

update:

temps:
:kidblue: 102.3, and he put up a fight when that thermometer went in! :leap: 

:kidred: 102.0. 

In their barrel warmers, toasty as can be. I pulled them out and he walked around the pen quite a while, seems to drag his back legs after a while of being up, but he is nursing well. I'm cautiously optimistic. Thanks for the splinting instructions, Pam. I have my feed custom-mixed with minerals and the selenium is in their feed, so I'm not sure why he has this issue, unless it was a positioning issue in the womb. Lady is being an excellent mom. In fact, they might stay warmer if she would quit licking them so much so they can stay dry! (She's gonna need the hemorrhoid ointment next time I go out, though, poor baby, after hubby's arm went in there - she's pretty swollen!)


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

So good to hear that he is improving! It does take a bit before oral Selenium/E is absorbed but the hind leg issue could even be just like you said, his position in the womb.

Another remedy that works for mamas that are swollen and sore is Witch Hazel, soaking a soft cloth with it and gently swabbing her will give her some relief and it dries fairly quickly so she won't have anything sticking to her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your very welcome.... :thumb: :hug: 

Even though ...we have the free choice minerals out for our Does... doesn't mean ...they are eating enough of them...it is frustrating when a kid is born a bit weak in the legs or small...but... at least we can give to them what they need... at birth...as you have done ...great job by the way.... :hi5: 

I am so glad ...the baby is doing good...it sounds really promising....I know it seems that mom is being a bit wet with her kisses.. :laugh: but... that is a real beautiful thing...she is bonding with her baby..... having the heat out there will help a lot.... 

I'd check on the baby in the middle of the night and make sure ..he nurses to keep warm and healthy...at least til until he is stronger... :hug: ray:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Anything I know I've learned from here in the past year of following TGS! Plan to check him a few times through the night (as well as on the waiting gals in the next stall.)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: ray: :thumbup:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Glad to hear he's improving. :thumb: Keep us posted on the little guy!


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

*Re: KIDS ARE HERE - HAPPY TO REPORT.....*

Good morning all! :coffee2:

I watched them from the comfort of my couch all night on the cam. So thankful to my guys for digging the trench and running the electricity to the barn a few weeks ago! Between the cam and the heating barrels, it's made things so much easier! "Ducky" seems to be doing much better. Even though the scale says there is only a few ounces difference between him and "Ziva", he seems so much thinner with less muscle mass and he's much shorter-legged. I guess when you're that small, a few ounces matters! (NCIS is our favorite show, and we couldn't decide on which male charcter's name to use - it was "Lucky Ducky" marathon night last night, and it's rained all night, so that made the choice pretty easy.(

They like their warming barrel. It sure didn't take long for them to figure it out! They may like it a little too much! They spend all their time in there and only come out for a nibble every now and then from mama. It drives her crazy - she sticks her nose in the little door at the bottom of the barrel and cries at them to come out. If temps weren't dropping today I'd shut the barrel off to make them come out and spend more time with her but I'm a little reluctant to do this before they're even 24 hours old.

They are favoring one teat over the other and I can't get them interested in nursing equally on both sides. I had to milk out some colostrum (feels like I'm throwing liquid gold on the ground) to flatten it out a bit - she looked like she was getting uncomfortable, but still neither kid would nurse from it. Her doeling from last season is eagerly looking through the gate, offering to help, I'm sure. I caught her trying to suckle a few times this past week before delivery, after being weaned 5 months.

If I can get a nap in today, I might be ready for round 2 and 3, as Roz is day 149 and Naomi day 148. Then a 2 or 3 week break before Lumpy, then a month later for Mocha. :ZZZ:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad they are doing good...  :clap: 

As to the ignored teat...choose one kid...one kid only...open the mouth and squirt a little into the babies mouth...encourage the baby to nurse....when it does..that is a start...each time you go out ...put that same kid on that teat...or... if you see the kid on the wrong teat... switch it to the other teat....after a while... that kid will claim that teat as his or her own....

As long as the kid is still a bit weak....the heat area is OK....if the weather warms up through the day ...the heat can be shut off..... unless it is too cold.....

Also.. during the day...encourage exercise ...this will help those legs get stronger and with more exercise comes.. more hunger...

You are doing a great job... :hi5:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: KIDS ARE HERE - HAPPY TO REPORT.....*



amylawrence said:


> They are favoring one teat over the other and I can't get them interested in nursing equally on both sides. I had to milk out some colostrum (feels like I'm throwing liquid gold on the ground) to flatten it out a bit - she looked like she was getting uncomfortable, but still neither kid would nurse from it.


If you milk out colostrum you can actually freeze it for future use.  
Does the milk/colostrum look fine from that side? If it does then I would do as Pam said and get the kids to start using it.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

The milk looks fine from the unused teat. I just worked with both kids trying to get one to take that teat, had to squirt about 10 or 12 streams out just to deflate it but neither would take it and mama gets impatient and moves off. (Before I read the suggestions). Guessing I'll have to start tying her and picking up a leg to train one of them to take that teat , oughta be fun, she can be one mean Nubi!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Just keep working with one..... Like I have mentioned...pick one kid....the one that is the strongest....and tie up mom and the back leg... the side you will be working from...... open the kids mouth ...squirt a bit of milk in the mouth....release kid.. tickle the tailhead and lightly direct it to the teat... Some kids....the more you fight them..the more they fight back... so... be very gentle steering the kid... Tickle ...tickle... I also hold the teat up more.. so... it is pointed to the kids mouth ...so the baby is able to find it easier.... if the baby doesn't find it catch on......repeat by opening the mouth... squirt some milk.....and sometimes holding the mouth over the teat and squirting a little ...then have someone tickle the tailhead at the same time works..... keep at it....the one kid will catch on.... :wink:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Pam, got finally Ziva to latch on and nurse for a minute on the right teat, then she walked around and went to the left one. I'll keep working with her and hopefully she'll eventually claim the right one! Tickling the tailhead seemed to help. Thanks for the advice


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Pam, got finally Ziva to latch on and nurse for a minute on the right teat, then she walked around and went to the left one. I'll keep working with her and hopefully she'll eventually claim the right one! Tickling the tailhead seemed to help. Thanks for the advice


 :clap:  Oh that is good to hear....and your very welcome...that is a big step...anytime she latches onto the wrong teat...re direct her to the other one..... going out often and guiding her to the teat you want her to go to....will help a lot with teaching her.....keep at it ...she will get it..... :hi5: :wink:


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