# Tired of Dogs Fighting!



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

So here is the story. My husband and I moved into this nice rental last December with a long time friend who had just gotten back from serving in the Navy and needed a place to stay. We all signed the lease together and we get along really well. However, he brought a freaking half German Shephard, half Greyhound back from Greece with him. She is friendly to people, and sits and stays well, but she never acts submissively. 

She is INSANE with our Pit Bull mix. We have three dogs, an Australian Shepard, a Red Heelr and Shelby (the pit.) The smaller dogs are both very submissive to humans and dogs. Shelby is submissive to ME. She isn't to my husband because he babies the crap out of the witch and never reprimands her. She is grumpy and likes to growl and occasionally snap at our other dogs. She knows not to, because she snaps fast (never actually bites them, her game is intimidation) and then immediately runs with her tail between her legs and hides under a table. She gets smacked and locked in the bathroom for twenty minutes or so and then let out. "Solitary Confinement" is her idea of the most hellish punishment on the planet.

Well, she snapped at our roomate's dog (Hultski) when we first moved intogether and Hultski went insane and started a huge fight. Shelby never snapped at Hultski again after that. But, since then, Hultski will fly across the room and attack Shelby without provocation. Shelby never initiates, but always fights back. Generally, Hultski will decide she is losing and try to run and then Shelby is in full fight mode and won't let go. Shelby's head is all scabbed up and she has gotten several punctures. Hultski only has one and a half ears because Shelby completely ripped one in half, and she has punctures all up and down her right leg. She is generally a bloody mess. 

She only attacks when I am scolding her. When Shelby growls at another dog I yell and get after her and she rolls on her back. As soon as Hultski sees that stomach, no matter how far away, she comes flying out of nowhere in a vicious attack. My roomate just drags her away and locks her up for awhile. He never really gets after her and he never makes his dog submit to him. I honestly think she is just an insane bloodthirsty monster, but maybe there is something to be done training-wise? 

My roommate says she is a "guard dog" not a pet, yet he has her sleep in his bed and she is always in the house. He has talked about taking her to the pound, but she'll just be put to sleep there because they won't re-home dogs that are aggressive with other dogs. If she is going to be a freak I wouldn't mind her wearing a muzzle 24/7, because Shelby doesn't ever start the fights...or Jacob keeping her OUTSIDE ONLY, but that would mean he would have to make an effort to fix the dog kennel, and thats too much work for him.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow. I'm sorry you and your family are having to go through this. It sounds like something has to budge though, whether it be you, or the roommate. I hope you can get everything all fixed.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Are the two females spayed? If not, I first would consider having them both spayed. Second, you may want to consider a shock or vibration collar for the attacking dog. As soon as you see her give the other dog "the look" she needs some sort of discipline to snap her out of it.

Sorry you have to deal with that...I hope you guys can figure out what to do with them.  :hug:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

The attacking dog is spayed, the one who gets constantly attacked is not. Maybe the other dog just smells her hormones and doesn't like it? Our other dogs are fixed because I paid for it. Shelby is my husband's dog and I refuse to pay for the surgery and it's been one of those "I'll get around to it" things for him. She would rather lay around inside all day, so when she goes into heat we just keep her in the house. I'll have a talk with him tonight about scheduling it. I think he is afraid something will go wrong and he'll lose her, he just is too manly to admit it. I know its a routine surgery, but when my little Aussie was fixed I fretted like crazy too. And I actually was right to fret, as she had a reaction to the anesthetic and they nearly killed her on the table. So now I think he is gun shy after what happened with mine. (She is fine BTW.)

The attacking dog wears a very expensive shock collar, which I assumed meant it had a really strong shock. She can't be deterred even on the highest of settings. Oddly enough, I am really good at detaching them and have never gotten bit (knock on wood) while my roommate gets punctures on his hands every time. His stupid dog fears me though because when he isn't around and she acts up really bad like that she knows that hell hath no fury. Doesn't honestly take much to scare the tar out of her. I just hauled back this time and backhanded her as hard as I could across the muzzle after I pulled her off Shelby (I had to break up this danged fight alone and my anger at my roommate is just boiling at this point...) That dog screamed like I had just stabbed her with a kitchen knife, ran into her "bad girl" bathroom and jumped in the BATH TUB! She screamed every time I tried to touch her after that and get her out of the tub. She is really a sissy la-la for being so intent on ripping our dog apart.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

honestly if a dog is that willing to attack a dog for no good reason it shouldnt be around other dogs period. If he has offered to take her to the pound then tell him to do so. It will save everyone one the chance of injury as well as your dog. 

I dont believe spaying Shelby is going to change the one dogs behavior towards her in one bit.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> honestly if a dog is that willing to attack a dog for no good reason it shouldnt be around other dogs period. If he has offered to take her to the pound then tell him to do so. It will save everyone one the chance of injury as well as your dog.
> 
> I dont believe spaying Shelby is going to change the one dogs behavior towards her in one bit.


 I too agree..it is fact... I hate to say....


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

If you get Shelby spayed while Loco dog is there, its very probable she'll attack her even more because she can sense that she is weak. Especially if she catches her belly up, and gets to those stitches.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Ok spaying your dog unless she is under a year old wont do anything to help. 

A shock collar for this type of situation is the worst thing you can do. She is most likely reacting to the shock thinking it is common from your dog. That is making her even more obsessed with attack! 

It sounds like your dog is being fear submissive and in that instant is releasing pheromones that the other dog is reacting to. That coupled with confusion and the fact that your dog had attacked her before are basically making her attack. 

The other dog is fine with your other dogs? If so it defiantly is a heirchy issue. Your dog thinks she is the leader of the house and sorry but she is most likely causing the problems because of that. 

You say that she submits to you but rolling over on her back can also be a form of dominate submission and not actually giving in. If you open the door to the house does/would she just run out? If you walk her does she ever lunge at things? Does she ever jump up on people?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

We haven't used the shock collar on Hultski for quite some time because it doesn't work. 

Shelby has never attacked Hultski. She has grumpily snapped at her once and then all hell broke loose. 
Hultski is fine with the other dogs although she is definitely dominant over them. I try and correct her because I don't allow shows of dominance, but I catch hell about correcting her from my roommate because its "his dog."

Shelby is very well behaved. She does not run out the door, she sits and waits. All my dogs sit and wait and go out the door one at a time as I allow them. She walks well on a leash and doesn't lunge. She doesn't jump on people or the furniture. She does everything I ever tell her to do immediately and I absolutely do not tolerate disobedience or dominant behavior from my dogs. When Shelby gets grumpy it is when another dog is in her space and bothering her, generally lingering over her or tripping over her/ laying on her on accident. She doesn't like to play or be bothered by them. She doesn't get grumpy when other dogs come near her food or toys/bones, etc. If she thinks she is queen of the house, she has an odd way of showing it. 

Hultski was attacked as a puppy in Greece I think, by another dog. I wonder if she is psychologically scarred or something?


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## Springbett Farm (Jan 5, 2011)

I think your roommate needs to establish some dominance over his dog and allow you and your husband to do the same....because otherwise, one of the humans might end up hurt. Dominant dogs should not be allowed on beds, on furniture, or anywhere where they can see themselves as equals to their humans. They shouldn't be babied. In fact, Hultski shouldn't be sleeping in the roommates room at all. No alpha wolf would share a den with a beta wolf. Kennel instead. Lots of "sit, stay" or "lay down" (and good dog) before feeding, before greeting. Basic obedience stuff. And he needs to learn "leave it!"
You could also rotate dogs being in and out of the kennel(s)....which is a big pain in the __. Roomate needs to shape up or his dog needs to ship out.
I have three dogs in my teeny tiny house.A Collie, a 50lb mutt, and a 100lbs lab mix. It took 2 weeks to figure out pecking order when the collie moved in last year and all is fine and dandy now. The lab mix is a dominant dog, but he knows who's in charge(me, hubby, and even my kids) and he's happy with that.
Best of luck to you...and be so careful! (Oh and Spay and Neuter :wink: ;it's a good thing)


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

First of all get rid of the E coller in this situation, it's only pissing the dog off wearing it and sending her into a higher state of frenzy. In some cases E collars work but in this case it's hindering not helping. And you have a dog that wants to be dominant and an unspayed female. Being uspayed puts that dog in a "dominant" position even is she doesn't always act it. In a wolf pack that breeding females are held higher( if that helps). And lastly you may never be able to fix this - sad to say. I have alot of years with dobermans( I currently show in agility) But I had 1 dog ( raven) that would for little reason just fly into another dog. He did it with 2 of mine at different ages- there was never any 1 target. Also if your roommates dog was never socialized as a pup and taught how to act around dogs by mom then it's only following what it knows. I would recommend a basket muzzle( or a greyhound muzzle) still allows open mouthe breathing but she won't be able to bite. Greyhounds wear them when running the track as they will bite at other dogs to keep them from the "prey"


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## kitten6500 (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree with Springbett + Dobe! (And I'm going to be very honest/truthful with you so please don't take it personally or the wrong way! I'm not trying to hurt any feelings here, but I think this other dog needs to go!)

You have a dog that needs serious discipline, and probably way more exercise. How much does she get walked? And I mean a controlled leash walk (Cesar Milan style), not the dog leading the way out on front walk- a big NO NO! This dog is going to need MAJOR work in order for there to be peace in your house- and i don't think your roommate has it in him.

Unfortunately, I think that both you and your roommate are not experienced enough to bring this "red zone" dog back to pack friendly life. (It shouldn't be YOUR responsibility anyway- it's not your dog!) I'd recommend renting The Dog Whisperer and doing some major watching with this roommate and your husband. Exercise, discipline, affection.... in that order. Hopefully he'll recognize that he isn't even close to providing this dog with a happy lifestyle, and will consider other options. In the meantime, perhaps your husband will learn why he should NOT be submissive to the Pit- even if everything has always been ok up until now....


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well it does sound like SHelby is well behaved and knows who to turn to for direction. I had misunderstood that she had started the first fight. 

Hultski needs to learn. I would keep away from the ecollar with her as you have been. The reason it isn't working is because it was most likely overused and also used with incorrect timing. If your roommate isn't ok with the dog being taught pack order (all humans are leader) then I would say he has to rehome her or move out. The crate thing will work if he keeps her in there but if he is unwilling to clean out the dog run I can't see that happening. I don't feel that this dog is "red zone" but very un trained. Any dog left to make its own decisions will make some bad ones.What happened to the dog in the past may play a big role in this. They go thru perminate fear imprint times and if the dog was attacked by another that may always linger. 

* Ceasar Milan "The Dog Whisperer" is a AMAZING trainer. 
*Please remember that what you see on the show is only a tiny part of the training that takes place with most of these dogs! Not every method he uses works for or is safe with all dogs!! If you do the poke "tis" method with many dogs that are focused on protect/attack there is a good chance you may get bit! Every dog is its own situation and the training required will vary. 

Sucks that you are having to deal with this!


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## Ali_1010 (May 8, 2011)

I know you've been getting a lot of advice, but I figured i'd just add my two cents. To me, I think you need to sit down and have a serious talk with your roomate. To me personally, a badly behaved dog is worse then a badly behaved child-it shows weakness on the owners part, and no one likes a problem dog. Personally my dog had this same problem-when we first got her, she bit my uncle, a little girl who was a neighbor, and was constantly getting out and running up to large dogs trying to attack. Finally we had enough and threw her into a setting where there was MANY large dogs, and she was terrified and ran, learning to submit REAL quick. Now she's very friendly to other dogs, and on the occasional time I hear a growl at the dog beach or something she gets a quick snap on her collar, reminding her that she's not allowed to do that. Just an example that aggressive CAN learn. 

Just maybe explain to him that before anything escalates further you'd like to fix this problem, and suggest some training methods or perhaps even hire a trainer if he's willing. By the way you say he allows her to sleep on the bed, etc, it sounds like she thinks she can just walk all over her owner. Good for you for hitting her! She needs to learn her place in the "family". My dog takes complete and total advantage of my mom (not responding to commands, causing thousands of dollars in damage by ripping apart her new car) because she always babies her. However, i've never had a problem with aggression, not listening, or destroying my car because she knows she'll get punished if she does. This is rediculous you have to endure that. :angry: 

Does your roomate's dog ever seem afraid of other dogs? Most aggression is rooted from fear...

Best of luck to you!!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

As long as the roommate is unwilling to cooperate this will always be a problem. Everyone has to be on the same playing field. All humans have to follow up on consistent rules and follow the same routines. All dogs need to be educated on how to behave by us without anger, resentment or frustration.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

peggy said:


> As long as the roommate is unwilling to cooperate this will always be a problem. Everyone has to be on the same playing field. All humans have to follow up on consistent rules and follow the same routines. All dogs need to be educated on how to behave by us without anger, resentment or frustration.


 :hi5: This is right on!!

Dogs that bite because of fear aggression rarely do so in a forward attack; it generally happens when they feel trapped and have no other option. 
It almost sounds like this dog may be attacking with a prey driver since it was said that the dog is only doing it when the other is turned belly up.

There are many drivers that can cause dog bites/attacks not just fear.


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## Jdyson (Jul 20, 2011)

I have 2 female boxers that go through this from time to time. They are sisters and we have had them for 7 years. The first time was pretty bad and they got spanked and crated. The second time we weren't home, my sis-in-law was babysitting so that was fun. Ever since then we watched their body language because both of them try to be HBIC. They just tend to forget it is me thats in charge, lol. They started that mess again last night. My suggestion after all of that would be to keep them seperate or re-home the aggressor. If they start fighting, go for the hind legs and pull them apart. Unfortunately it takes 2 people to do this. Good luck :thumb:


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