# best livestock protectors???



## brokencranch (Jan 6, 2012)

I have some goats on my place.... Im not worried about them we have lots of dogs so no coyetes come very close... However we are movin some up to my folks... And well they have a bassett hound and thats it... They will be in the barn at night... But i am worried somethin might get in there still... I dont have a LGD but i heard llamas and donkeys were good!!! What are.your thoughts???


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

We bought a Great Pyrenees and raised her with the goats, I was careful to train her and not just leave her to her own devices...even then it can be very frustrating to get them trained not to chase the goats. After she was about a year old and felt she was good and trained, we got a male puppy and put him out with her. It's only been a few months and she's done the training for us! Both dogs are amazing, and even through my frustrating times with our first one, I'm very grateful to have them! They do a wonderful job and work together as a team.


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## apachedowns (Mar 14, 2010)

I have a Pry cross and a purebred Kangal (Turkish dog)....they are extremely amazing and will not let anything near the property...they also have to be intoroduced to all newcomers (chicks, newborn goats etc) otherwise they will kill it because they don't see it belongs here...once they are introduced to it, get its smell then they don't bother it...just amazing how smart these livestock dogs are. I am also amazed of how LGD's bond so closely with children...its as if they know they need to be watched and protected. 

I am not sure how a bassett hound would do as a protector ..maybe the barking will at least alert them as to predators close by but I wouldn't trust him "IN" with the goats..IMO of course....

Llamas I have heard are great guards also but never actually had one ...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I don't have any protection animals, but what I have heard from others with years of experience is that llamas and donkeys are not as good as LGDs. Some llamas and donkeys can even be dangerous to you goats.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

About any livestock guard dog(LGD) breed...it just depends on.. if you want short hair or long hair...and what the breed offers....


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I have llamas. They are great with the goats. Haven't had any issues at all with predators. But we usually only have coyotes around and strong fencing. They're bold and very curious of strange animals they don't know and will come running at them. They can scare off a lone coyote, but probably couldn't stand up to a cougar, bear, pack of dogs, etc.



Tenacross said:


> I don't have any protection animals, but what I have heard from others with years of experience is that llamas and donkeys are not as good as LGDs. Some llamas and donkeys can even be dangerous to you goats.


I have heard numerous issues with LGDs vs. llamas or donkeys. Actually, I have yet to hear an issue with llamas or donkeys with your goats...now a dog...I have heard of and experienced many issues with them unfortunately. I've also heard a lot of good about them. One thing to keep in mind is unless it's a well trained/raised LGD that you're purchasing, if you buy young...you are in for a lot of training and time that needs to be devoted to the dog. They aren't for everyone. They need different training needs than a regular dog. If you're wanting to go with a LGD that is great, I just urge you to do a lot of research on whatever breed you choose and LGDs in general because you will have your work cut out for you. And please buy from a reputable breeder who is raising them to work. They can be an asset to your herd or could end up costing you a lot of time, money, and heart ache.

With whatever livestock guardian you choose, do your research and be prepared. There is no best LG for everyone...just the best livestock guard for your needs. :thumb:


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

There is a lady up here who has 100+ llamas and last year several were killed by preditors. Still don't know if they were coyotes or bears or cougars. Anyway, her best guard llama was on that was kiiled. He was laying down when he got attacked...she thinks. Dogs are my preference as they make noise! Noise is usually what keeps preditors at bay. My suggestion is if you get any livestock guardian, get two. One alone cannot protect his back so to speak!


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Personal experience here, not necessarily my opinion of one versus another. I got a 2-yo jenny donkey as a rescue. She has worked beautifully for us (coyotes and neighbor dogs) with MOST of our goats. In fact, she "nannies" our new kids almost to the point of coming between them and their mamas. We added 3 new does this fall and one of them pecked her way up in the ranks and the donkey intensely dislikes her. In fact,this goat miscarried twins last month and I have my suspicion that the donkey kicked her. If you do go with a llama or donkey, stick to females. I would like to put a LGD in my other pasture for comparison!


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## fiberchick04 (Mar 8, 2010)

we had a llama and he was WONDERFUL! He was a gelding of course.

Personal (kind of) experience though, recently I sold two of my goats to some friends that had sheep and a guard llama. A mountain lion came in, the llama tried defending them but the mountain lion and her yearling cub massacred the llama, goats, and one sheep.

Llamas are great against coyotes and dogs, but can't stand their own against mountain lions or bears...of course what sort of "prey" animal can? 

After having a llama, we sold him when I briefly got out of goats, I have not seen any coyotes on our land. We do have a family of black bears, but they leave the goats alone and go for our trash isntead :veryangry: but hey, better the trash than goats lol


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

We have friends that had donkeys in with sheep. They did okay until the donkey figured out that it was fun to kill lambs. Fortunately someone was watching when it happened and he only killed one and seriously injured another. There are also stories on this forum of donkeys that kill goats (especially goat kids) by swinging them around by their necks.


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## Bit of Everything (Jan 28, 2011)

I have 2 female donkeys in with my cattle in the main pasture and I'm ashamed to admit they didn't go after the coyote that was trying to get a calf last spring. I had to go out and chase it off. My husband has been snaring the coyotes to thin them out around here. He's done pretty good as we don't hear them very often. But after that encounter with it in broad daylight i kept my gun on the gun rack instead of in the gun cabinet. Thankfully I never saw the coyote again but I was ready. My goat pasture is surrounded by the cattle so in a way the cows protect the goats. I have a few cows that don't like strange animals in their pasture.

I have no experience with llama's or GD.


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## nonconformist (Nov 14, 2011)

My experience with donkeys as goat guards has been both good and bad. We started out with a then 12 year old jenny that had foaled twice before we got her. For the first 1 1/2 years she was our only donkey and for the most part was great with them except at feeding time. Then she would hog the feed and bite them on the back or pretend to kick at them to get away. On several occasions I also saw her pick up different mature and young bucks by their tail with her teeth. She would then drop them in front of her and while they were trying to get up she would try to roll on them. This behavior wasn't all the time but I saw it several times during the first 1 1/2 years. The first week after I had her though she did impress me by getting my neighbor's lab in the fence that was stalking my goats and chickens. She saw it before I did down the hill, sounded like a train and ran into the brush. A couple of loud thumps later and I saw a very scared lab rolling back to her house. That dog never did come back on my property.

Then we added a 15 year old rescue jack as her companion and had him castrated immediately. He was better with the goats then she was. They were bonded to each other and guarded the pasture but not necessarily the goats. Both had terrible feet from previous lives and the male had to be partially sedated to have his feet trimmed, They were both standards and large. Keeping a farrier was the hardest as no one wants to work on mules, donkeys or draft horses. They also don't want to bother to come out if you only have 1 or 2. After the 3rd farrier stopped showing up I started trimming them myself. I was not great but did good enough I guess. 

I finally separated them from the goats when the jenny started trying to run down the goat kids. Good thing Nigerians are like lightning. She never killed one but I never gave her enough time. 

We sold our donkeys as a pair and took a huge loss but they were eating as much hay as 10 standard sized dairy goats which added up quick.

We now have a LGD and couldn't be happier. Looking to add a second to be a working pair. Sadly she has killed Opossums but she is doing her job and very well. Very intelligent and different from other guarding breeds I have and have had.

We very much miss our donkeys and hope to again have 1 in the future. But we will buy one that has good feet, temperament and not over fat from a breeder next time. I love their sound.

Best of luck with your search.


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## yellowstone (Jan 9, 2011)

I have good and bad experiences with llamas. We were given 3 adult llamas a few years back. They do a great job keeping coyotes out of the pasture. We have a ton of coyotes and they come nearby but never in our goat pasture. However one of them, Scout, got aggressive with the goats suddenly. It started during kidding last year, I was disbudding one kid when I saw Scout stomp on another baby's neck. I thought maybe he had tripped -- then I saw him do it again. He reared up and came down with both his feet on the the back of the baby's neck. We started keeping the babies in the pen and only letting the mamas out in the pasture with the llamas -- since Scout had known the mamas for years and had never been aggressive before. But he started attacking them too, chasing them down and trying to land on their necks and heads. We have to get rid of him.

We called a llama rescue and they said it was unusual but he was treating the goats as intruders in the pasture. They wouldn't take him as a rescue and we can't give him away (with the price of hay etc) so we are going to have to shoot him. We've been putting it off hoping someone will want him but once spring hits he's going to have to go -- can't spend another year with our goats afraid to go in their own pasture.

Anyway we still want to keep the other llamas since they do a great job with the coyotes and they are SO much easier and cheaper than LGDs (I am dying for LGDs someday but can't deal with the money and training yet). And I do think this kind of aggressive behavior is rare in llamas, but I just wanted to chime in that there can be bad experiences.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

That's really interesting. I wonder if was just confused, thinking they were a threat? 

That's sad you can't find a home for him. Have you tried a 4H group or club, maybe they know of someone who would want him. :shrug:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

yellowstone said:


> We called a llama rescue and they said it was unusual but he was treating the goats as intruders in the pasture. They wouldn't take him as a rescue and we can't give him away (with the price of hay etc) so we are going to have to shoot him. We've been putting it off hoping someone will want him but once spring hits he's going to have to go -- can't spend another year with our goats afraid to go in their own pasture..


Put him in the freezer. Even the meat from older llamas or alpacas tastes tender and great. Then you are getting something out of him. We actually like alpaca better than beef.

Some llamas just won't let anyone new come in. Most guard llamas aren't that bad but you get one every once in a while that won't stand for anything else in their field except the original herd they know.

Not all llamas and donkeys are guard animals. You really have to be careful when getting one. You have to make sure they actually guard.


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

A lady that we got our last two goats from had a donkey they were selling and the donkey was not very good with the goats. I think it just depends on the animals


We have a FB Great Pyr and she is amazing....if you don't want to train them yourself (it is a lot of work) get an adult...any LGD breed is good, just depends on what you are looking for! I personally have never had a donkey or llama so I can't give any input on that except for the donkey that the lady had.


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## brokencranch (Jan 6, 2012)

We wont be gettin a dog... My neighbors dog just killed a bunch of his goats. My great danes arethe best protectors we have right now. My husband said no llamas lol so i guess we will be gettin a donkey. Thats what most of the people have around here. And i have not heard anythin bad about them eound here. I got a number for a guy that sells donkeys for 20 bucks. He said he sells most of them to people that have goats for protection and said he has never had a complaint so i am thinkin we will do that ) thanks for lettin me know what you guys think!!


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Another comment re: donkeys (and supported by goatfanatic and goataholics comments), if you go with a donkey, only use one per pasture. If paired, they tend to buddy up and forget what their jobs are! And i have also heard of donkeys picking kids up and hurting or killing them. My jenny does think she co-rules the pasture with our herd queen. She'll boss does but loves" her"kids. I put her in the barn during grain feeding or she will run the goats off the trough. I got her young, don't know if age has anything to do with willingness to guard.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2012)

I have a Lama, a female that I got as a pup, that was 6 years ago. She has chased off the stray dog here and there but as we have fenced things in and off she really is just a pain. She spits grain at the goats at feeding time, won't eat out of the same trough and sometimes gets pissed at them and chases them. She has never hurt any and I watch her around the little ones but she hasn't hurt any.
I called my local locker and they said that they would process a Lama. They are very good eating. And at auction you are lucky to get 20 bucks for one. 
I never went for the LGD its just not for me. I have a working dog a Catahula


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## BareCreekFarm (Nov 20, 2011)

We tried a LGD but that did not work for use (not saying it wouldn't work for you). We have a big coyote problem where we live, at one point we lost 9 goats in one week. We got a gelding donkey and put him in with the goat and cows and have not lost a single animal since. All the neighbors say when they hear the coyotes start yapping, our donkey brays and the coyotes stop. Donkeys do not like any member of the canine family!! A few weeks back our neighbor was **** hunting on us (which he was not supposed to be doing!! :veryangry: ) But the donkey chased him and his dogs out of the pasture!! So for us the donkey works best.


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

brokencranch said:


> I have some goats on my place.... Im not worried about them we have lots of dogs so no coyetes come very close... . I dont have a LGD but i heard llamas and donkeys were good!!! What are.your thoughts???


We've not used donkeys or llamas. But I can say that over the last 2 years we have had a few llama/donkey guard owners come to us for LGDs because they needed "additional" for their predator problem.
When we started out, one LGD was not enough. Did eventually get 3 to work the place and they did work...we have a huge amount of predators. Everything from cougar, puma, lynx, bobcat, coyote to skunk and back again.

A single LGD can NOT stand up to big cats or keep a whole pack of coyote away. Depending on your predator problem, a pair might be best.

And I agree with some of the other post'rs....buy from a reputable breeder who knows their dogs and cares to get you what you NEED instead of just selling you a dog/pup. Buying an LGD is a 10yr equipment investment for your farm. An LGD bonds with you and your place and will NOT understand why it's being moved (if it does not work out). Be very thorough before buying LGD. Count your predators, check your fencing, consider your neighbors and check references of the seller. The breeder should be willing to help you, ongoing after the purchase.

*Click here for our LGDs .*


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## primal woman (Sep 17, 2011)

Chiming in here with a little snippet: I was animal control officer for awhile in TX. Brought in a stray donkey and put it in with my pigs. We saw that donkey pick up a pig and shake it. I was amazed! 

Also, about LGD's; have never had one. Wonder why they are known to have a hard time being 'rehomed'. Other dogs do well, why can't they learn the role of people-alpha/goats-protect/predators-bad....right across the board. Take for instance when a German Shepherd is rehomed as an adult, he starts his job within a day of protecting his new owner/property. Surely LGD's are smart enough to decipher this stuff. And if not, I'm not impressed!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We have coyotes & loose dogs here. Actually the loose dogs are more of a threat. But neither has even crossed the property line except once when neighbor dog was off leash & in the yard.
Anatolian Dep jumped fence & tore into him.
As for one LGD not being able to take on the big cats; when Sheriff was just a 6 mo old pup one came through the hood. The presence of an LGD was enough to keep moving.
PrimalWoman I would venture to say that the reason LGDs are rehomed is because owners dont really know what they've gotten into; most are independent thinkers & arent out to please their humans.
They dont mature as quickly as regular dogs either.


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## 2wFarm (Jul 16, 2012)

nancy d said:


> As for one LGD not being able to take on the big cats; when Sheriff was just a 6 mo old pup one came through the hood. The presence of an LGD was enough to keep moving.
> .


Thanks Nanc for clarifying for me. I should have said one LGD alone, likely won't win a fight with a puma or cougar.
I did have only one cougar come through, within 10 yards of my son. My only LGD at the time, did cause the cat to turn away and go off. But that's when I bought two more LGD. I asked LGD breeders what to do , since there was a puma and a cougar in the neighborhood, they told me my one LGD would be torn up if fighting it alone. 
Guess I should have made that clear . 
My boo boo.

Your LGD sound fabulous! Anatolians are brave and "on the job"!! I hear those praises from owners all the time!!

And I likely should have also said "_My Maremmas_ would not understand being re-homed."

Since I do not have any personal experiences with other LGD breeds, I shouldn't have spoken in generalizations. 
Again, my boo boo.


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