# C&D Farming Impatiently Waiting?



## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

I am new to goats, in case you don't know. We have a beautiful hobby farm, now with goats! Some wonderful people on here helped me do the math...because I'm THAT inexperienced with this, and I think my doe, Busty, will be due sometime around February 14-15! Now the hard part..the wait? She's a super sweet Nigerian Dwarf mix who, I don't know any background info on. She's very healthy now, after being neglected at her former farm. I'm pretty sure she's around 2. She got her name name because her udders are not, exactly...tight? Husbands..ugh. Anyways, she likes her grain, as I'm sure most do. I've cut them back..they are on alfalfa pellets and oats now..about one cup twice daily. By they, I mean, Stormy also, my Pygmy mix..who's maybe her kid? The buck is a beautiful Nigerian Dwarf we named Chester...we bought him right away after getting the 'girls'..as I like to call them. Big mistake, as a typical..newbie...We knew we wanted kids but had NO clue the details. We clearly should've waited a year. But, here we are. Chester is sold now..Because...well, he was a buck..and wayyy too much to handle! The girls are back to normal. The goats were raised living with pot belly pigs..but I have them separated now...but they visit during the day. I have giving both does CDT...Busty got her selenium/vit E..I've got my vit BComplex on the ready... I had a scare with lice but after much careful inspecting, and closeups on here...it was just a thick winter coat coming in. I work on my new goat stand daily with both girls..and, although it may not be necessary, I brush them, because they are still skittish. I plan to milk them, and on another thread about me being clueless I've been getting much needed help about the how-to's...but, I was looking for info in the waiting room...and finally caught on, that people start threads about their experience during the wait! So, here I am! Any and all advice would be super..because, I need it all! If you look at the pictures from when we first got them..typically in harnesses...they are much thinner. Now they are both huge. I am having Stormy retested. Can you look at Busty from behind and tell me if she looks too big for being halfway thru?

































































we have very little alfalfa hay around here. The rest of the stuff...is just mixed grasses around here. I have not found many people With goats around here. Here are some pictures of my girls...they wear leads, because they are still skittish and it helps.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Another thing.. I was told to give the kids jumpstart plus...do you all do this? Do you put cameras in the stalls to monitor the does? Do you all give the does some molasses in a bucket of warm water after birth..?


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## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

She looks just right for halfway through with twins+ I think she looks great! She's already getting her udder in which is a great thing! Looking at stormy on the stand I would say she's pregnant but she could just have a large rumen. 
It wouldn't hurt to have jumpstart on hand in case you need it but I don't use it personally. Cameras are a personal choice if you don't want to be walking to the barn checking them 100 times a night. 
Yes, molasses in a bucket of warm water after birth is great for mamma and babies, I like to give Nutri-Drench while a doe in laboring for a boost of energy.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

mariella said:


> She looks just right for halfway through with twins+ I think she looks great! She's already getting her udder in which is a great thing! Looking at stormy on the stand I would say she's pregnant but she could just have a large rumen.
> It wouldn't hurt to have jumpstart on hand in case you need it but I don't use it personally. Cameras are a personal choice if you don't want to be walking to the barn checking them 100 times a night.
> Yes, molasses in a bucket of warm water after birth is great for mamma and babies, I like to give Nutri-Drench while a doe in laboring for a boost of energy.


Oh my gosh..you just made my day! I mean, I ordered the preg tests...but, in my gut I kinda figured they both were, based on the rate of growth! So, at least I'll be better prepared. So, the selenium..do ii need a second one of those or is one of those injectors enough for two goats? I didn't read it enough through..just to get me by the first dose. Well, I guess I know what my Christmas present is..a game camera for the barn!! Soo exciting! I'm going to do the baby bump test that I read in another thread earlier..that would be sooo wild!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> Another thing.. I was told to give the kids jumpstart plus...do you all do this? Do you put cameras in the stalls to monitor the does? Do you all give the does some molasses in a bucket of warm water after birth..?


When you say monitors..I just looked up game cams..but that won't help..so then I went to the baby monitors...so that's what you mean? And they work that far away? Very cool! I put one in my amazon cart..thanks


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## Hillsideboers (Sep 1, 2019)

I just installed cameras this year and I love it! I live in Iowa and it’s super cold. Much easier to get up and look at my phone to see what my girls are doing rather than get bundled up to run outside for 2 minutes. My cameras are completely wireless and run off my WiFi. 

sweet looking girls! Happy kidding!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Hillsideboers said:


> I just installed cameras this year and I love it! I live in Iowa and it's super cold. Much easier to get up and look at my phone to see what my girls are doing rather than get bundled up to run outside for 2 minutes. My cameras are completely wireless and run off my WiFi.
> 
> sweet looking girls! Happy kidding!


Can you tell me what you bought? I was looking at the baby monitor camera things last night!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It should all go well. Remember, all the posts you read on here are problems, usually. Most people don't post about the thousands of goat hours where nothing bad happens, births occur easily and naturally, etc. 

Read and educate yourself, but don't get panic stricken over tiny problems. You will do just fine!


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## Hillsideboers (Sep 1, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> Can you tell me what you bought? I was looking at the baby monitor camera things last night!


This is what we have I got it on amazon for $110 it's not $150 it's a great camera and it's wireless. We have no electricity out in the barn but our WiFi reaches out there


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Oh, well we do have electricity, so we could probably go cheaper?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Whether or not??? So, I’m probably getting ahead of myself, again, since nothing is going to happen until mid February, but I like to have a plan. I’m hoping to have mostly doe kids..who doesn’t? But, when you have bucks born...is it more valuable to a buyer to whether them or leave them be? I’m hoping to keep at least one. Preferably a doe. Not a buck. But, I Look at our local listings and people here have a hard time selling their goats. I’m watching the ads to see how many days they are listed, and how many people look at the ads. I know, with my buck, in November...he was very hard to sell and I had to practically give him away. So, is it better to a buyer to get a whether or a buck? 

Plus, we are going to our first livestock auction tomorrow. Yes, I have throwaway boots..:lol: we are basically going to just get an idea of what goes on. If we can get a good deal on a turkey or pig to butcher right away..great..but nothing going in my barns! Strict rules on that! We bought two pigs last week and I made my hubby build new a new barn set up! Yikes!

Anyways..any tips for looking at goats...if..we were ever to to buy a goat...which I highly doubt...but if we were going to buy one at auction? Or, how to sell something? We might take some drake ducks, but we know we would not get a good price right now.

I suppose this is off topic, but I just thought about it..thanks guys!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

tip would be ..... don't buy one at auction. Too much risk for disease.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Look at their hooves. Most people never trim the goat hooves if they are going to send to auction. If they don't care about hooves, they won't care about the animals health. 

I've sold many good goats as I can't keep them all. All are healthy, clean and have neat (not just trimmed, but kept trimmed) hooves. I hate selling at auction, but I always hope they get to a good home. 

Before you all condemn me, I have a dairy, I try and sell what replacement goats I cannot keep. Unfortunately, most of the buck kids go to the sale. But, I waste a lot of time and milk, they are all healthy and weaned!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Goats Rock said:


> Look at their hooves. Most people never trim the goat hooves if they are going to send to auction. If they don't care about hooves, they won't care about the animals health.
> 
> I've sold many good goats as I can't keep them all. All are healthy, clean and have neat (not just trimmed, but kept trimmed) hooves. I hate selling at auction, but I always hope they get to a good home.
> 
> Before you all condemn me, I have a dairy, I try and sell what replacement goats I cannot keep. Unfortunately, most of the buck kids go to the sale. But, I waste a lot of time and milk, they are all healthy and weaned!


Oh you jus quit thinkin we are gonna condem you silly bean! You have a dairy.... bucks are hard to sell...... but while they are with you you take great care of them!

I would be so scared to sell at our auction house. . We took a cow to the processor recently for our friend. They are right beside the auction... ugh! I almost cried! They are a halal processor so they do quite a few goats. But you could tell they had bought all the goats left from the auction. Some were GORGEOUS animals while others not so much. But. It was friday mornin, they had probably 75 goats and a few calves and sheep in a super small pen (maybe a quarter acre in size if that) with one water trough and very little hay. There were bucks chasin everyone and pickin on the little ones. It was so so sad for me to see. All i could think was please please lord let them get to all of these animals TODAY so they do not live like this for the week end. ;(. I told paul that i could never go on friday with him to the processor again.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

That's the terrible thing, they want empty stomachs. I try not thinking about it! 

Denise, what kind of goats are you looking for? What area of PA are you in? I'm near Erie I'm Ohio. If you are looking for dairy goats, I have some really nice dairy kids (does) that I could sell you very reasonably, save you from the uncertainty of an auction.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I was thinking since the OP is new to goats, and just settling in on her goals, to stick with what she has for this year. Make sure you are comfortable with kidding, weaning, housing, feed, etc., try to pinpoint your goals for your kids, herd and the coming year. Nothing replaces health or the possibility of bringing in problems. Get comfortable with what you are doing, give it some time and really think about what you want to get out of your goats, what will be their purpose and how much you can manage. Disease testing, great management with housing, fencing, feed, minerals, vacinnations and prevention don't come cheap. Be prepared to NOT profit from your herd for quite a while. Decide if you want to show, do LA, DHIR, have registered vs. non-registered, milk, meat, etc. - there are a lot of decisions that go into building a herd that suits you.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> I was thinking since the OP is new to goats, and just settling in on her goals, to stick with what she has for this year. Make sure you are comfortable with kidding, weaning, housing, feed, etc., try to pinpoint your goals for your kids, herd and the coming year. Nothing replaces health or the possibility of bringing in problems. Get comfortable with what you are doing, give it some time and really think about what you want to get out of your goats, what will be their purpose and how much you can manage. Disease testing, great management with housing, fencing, feed, minerals, vacinnations and prevention don't come cheap. Be prepared to NOT profit from your herd for quite a while. Decide if you want to show, do LA, DHIR, have registered vs. non-registered, milk, meat, etc. - there are a lot of decisions that go into building a herd that suits you.


Excellent advice!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Goats Rock said:


> That's the terrible thing, they want empty stomachs. I try not thinking about it!
> 
> Denise, what kind of goats are you looking for? What area of PA are you in? I'm near Erie I'm Ohio. If you are looking for dairy goats, I have some really nice dairy kids (does) that I could sell you very reasonably, save you from the uncertainty of an auction.


I know. . And i understand completely. We hold feed from out meat birds for almost a day... they get an early early mornin feed the day before and that is all. Havin a crop burst is not fun lol. I had never seen them have so many in that pen all of the times we we t to take an animal. Usually there might be a handful but not that day. So it was hard to get it out of my brain cell.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Oh you jus quit thinkin we are gonna condem you silly bean! You have a dairy.... bucks are hard to sell...... but while they are with you you take great care of them!
> 
> I would be so scared to sell at our auction house. . We took a cow to the processor recently for our friend. They are right beside the auction... ugh! I almost cried! They are a halal processor so they do quite a few goats. But you could tell they had bought all the goats left from the auction. Some were GORGEOUS animals while others not so much. But. It was friday mornin, they had probably 75 goats and a few calves and sheep in a super small pen (maybe a quarter acre in size if that) with one water trough and very little hay. There were bucks chasin everyone and pickin on the little ones. It was so so sad for me to see. All i could think was please please lord let them get to all of these animals TODAY so they do not live like this for the week end. ;(. I told paul that i could never go on friday with him to the processor again.


They were all going to be ...made into meat?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> That's the terrible thing, they want empty stomachs. I try not thinking about it!
> 
> Denise, what kind of goats are you looking for? What area of PA are you in? I'm near Erie I'm Ohio. If you are looking for dairy goats, I have some really nice dairy kids (does) that I could sell you very reasonably, save you from the uncertainty of an auction.


I'm in NW PA, so, Erie is only two hrs away. Right now I'm not looking for any goats but wanted to advice if I ever was to want one. I've heard horror stories. This place was very clean. You actually didn't get to mingle with the animals so it was a catwalk...but, you couldn't see defect as well. Very small place. No goats . There really aren't goats anywhere around us. Which is why I need to know how to sell my kids when time comes. About the sick cows...do you know..some had huge abscesses in mouth, etc...do them give them meds before slaughter?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> I'm in NW PA, so, Erie is only two hrs away. Right now I'm not looking for any goats but wanted to advice if I ever was to want one. I've heard horror stories. This place was very clean. You actually didn't get to mingle with the animals so it was a catwalk...but, you couldn't see defect as well. Very small place. No goats . There really aren't goats anywhere around us. Which is why I need to know how to sell my kids when time comes. About the sick cows...do you know..some had huge abscesses in mouth, etc...do them give them meds before slaughter?


Oh, at this moment, dairy is not a focus because I've not yet milked a goat..that comes in Feb..then we'll see. . At this moment I have pet goats..but three weeks ago we were only giving away eggs, and now we've tripled our chickens and are selling like hot cakes...so, things are cookin here...we also got two more pigs...so, more goats could definitely be in the cards, but I'm only familiar with my Nigerian Dwarfs and Pygmy mix does...oh, and the buck we had..but, I won't be going down that road for quite some time...ugh


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> I know. . And i understand completely. We hold feed from out meat birds for almost a day... they get an early early mornin feed the day before and that is all. Havin a crop burst is not fun lol. I had never seen them have so many in that pen all of the times we we t to take an animal. Usually there might be a handful but not that day. So it was hard to get it out of my brain cell.


Oh..this is not something we've done to our birds we've butchered...do you recommend it?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Oh..this is not something we've done to our birds we've butchered...do you recommend it?


Most people withhold food for 24 hours before butchering. It makes it MUCH easier to not have all the garb in their crop and intestines.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> They were all going to be ...made into meat?


Yep.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

There is a withdrawal period for meds. If you aren't into dairy goats (which Nigerian Dwarfs are), the rest are meat or fiber goats. Many dairy people want good bloodlines with udders they can see from the dam, as well as any DHIR/milk test information. Not all, but many. For selling kids, evaluate your market and see what people want, I'm sure if you look into registered stock for ADGA adn ABGA, you can find a number of breeders. Also check with your local extension office, 4h groups and specific goat FB groups for your area.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, except I feed those, who were to be butchered, all the way up until they were put down.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Can you mix breeds? I don’t plan to get meat goats, but we did have an opportunity to get some Boer goats. I chose not to being so new, and they seem much bigger than mine, and I’m only 125 soaking wet. So I figured to stick with small breeds..,but is there bullying like with hens and ducks? Ok, so my goats,once I milk them, will be in the dairy category...excellent! I’m excited for that experience and trying to make things with the milk. Can I sell it out of my driveway farm stand where I sell my eggs or do you need a license because it’s not pasteurized, etc? My hubby is worried someone would get sick and we will be liable.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Oh, and back to my one question...should we wether my bucks for easy sale or keep them as is? I’ve watched our local Internet forum for sales...watched the days listed, the fees, it seems...pretty much a toss up. Goats are a luxury here...not common. But I do know..selling my buck was very hard and we took a hard loss. I definitely want to keep at least one kid. . Yeah!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Just because you milk a goat does not make it a "dairy" breed. If your goats are pygmy/ND then they are a mixed breed. If you don't have registered stock, then you really don't know the breed(s) of your goat. They can appear to be a certain breed, but throw kids that look like something you weren't expecting. You can milk any breed of goat, but they may not have the udder capacity or teat structure that is desirable for dairy goats. There are state laws prohibiting milk sales for human consumption unless you are a registered dairy - quite expensive. but you can make soap, cheese, etc. There is always fighting within a herd to establish pecking order, I prefer not to mix minis with standards, horns, no horns although you can do it successfully with enough pens, and very careful integration. Bucks - if not having stellar registered bloodlines and proven #"s behind them can be harder to sell than wethers but realize wethers go cheaper and often for meat. IMO bucks should not be sold at all unless you know the genetics you are passing along to the kids. You can mix breeds, but do so with intent - some people here breed Laboers or Nubian x boer goats for faster growing kids with meat in mind. Do you research, know your goals and take it slow. BTW - Im a small person as well - it's more about manners than size - I like the bigger breeds......


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It depends on the market and who is buying them.

Mostly though, most like them as wethers for meat.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Just because you milk a goat does not make it a "dairy" breed. If your goats are pygmy/ND then they are a mixed breed. If you don't have registered stock, then you really don't know the breed(s) of your goat. They can appear to be a certain breed, but throw kids that look like something you weren't expecting. You can milk any breed of goat, but they may not have the udder capacity or teat structure that is desirable for dairy goats. There are state laws prohibiting milk sales for human consumption unless you are a registered dairy - quite expensive. but you can make soap, cheese, etc. There is always fighting within a herd to establish pecking order, I prefer not to mix minis with standards, horns, no horns although you can do it successfully with enough pens, and very careful integration. Bucks - if not having stellar registered bloodlines and proven #"s behind them can be harder to sell than wethers but realize wethers go cheaper and often for meat. IMO bucks should not be sold at all unless you know the genetics you are passing along to the kids. You can mix breeds, but do so with intent - some people here breed Laboers or Nubian x boer goats for faster growing kids with meat in mind. Do you research, know your goals and take it slow. BTW - Im a small person as well - it's more about manners than size - I like the bigger breeds......


Huh, I was told that my breeds were considered dairy goats...Nigerian dwarf and Pygmy? So, why your saying about selling the make kids...sine we have no concrete record of Chestersbloolines, etc...then we would best to sell him as a wether because now one wants to but a buck without proper papers...makes sense. Cuz goats aren't cheap, so if you are going to invest, make sure you're getting the true deal. Ok, so this round with need to be weathered...and then next time we'll have a couple stayovers at a bucks place, with the right pedigree!


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Huh, I was told that my breeds were considered dairy goats...Nigerian dwarf and Pygmy?


The Nigerian Dwarf is a dairy breed, but the Pygmy is primarily a pet/meat breed.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

As for kidding supplies...I was just trying to get organized now, since everyday it’s going to get more crazy! 

I read about the alfalfa pellets making them gain too much. I have them on about 1cup twice a day each, but now I’m concerned as, Stormy is my Pygmy mix. I’ve also read that some owners only give mixed grasses from this point on. I can say for sure I’ll need to use a tad of pellets to work with them on the stand. And, they are food motivated at night to come into the barn..perhaps just cutting back in the morning? Makes me feel like I’m taking away from the kids...I do plan to limit there feed even more today and brought my scoop inside to get very accurate measurements. I just want to cut back so there as few kidding problems as possible, which I’m sure you all understand! 

Anyways , the list..I will only mention the things that I’m not sure if I need to buy. Most likely, I will call the vet. But ater watching the first Do any of you think I could do the second? Or, since I’m so new, just call the vet?

1. ky liquid to lubricate gloves
2. Kid puller/ leg snare
3. Penicillin..procaine G
4. Oxytocin
5. Calciumgluconate?
6.. Proplypene glycol
7. Uterus bolus. Terramycin
8. Test drop
9. Prichard nipple valve
10. 29 oz. pop bottle
11. Colostrum...have some frozen from another freshening doe... CAE/Johnes free doe—. keep some as back up...where would I find this kind of doe if my first kids need the milk?
12. 50% dextrose..but dilute to 20%
13. Heat pads...does dot mean the human kind or the ones you buy for poultry?
14. Electrolytes..do they sell specific goat electrolytes? Or can you use pedialyte
15. Scale..where do you buy one of those? Can it be Bathroom scale that’s digital?
16. Epinephrine
17. Dewormer for the end of pregnancy...I have them on herbal...is that a good idea to continue
18. Probiotic

ok...so that’s out of three lists, the things I had questions about. The rest of the supplies I can either get or have. Most of these things, like kid puller...do I get that at TS or does anyone recommend a better site if I’m buying this much? I like TS because I can actually touch the product before I buy it. But if amazon has better prices..than I’d love to know! Ok, thanks everyone!!


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> *1. ky liquid to lubricate gloves
> 2. Kid puller/ leg snare
> 3. Penicillin..procaine G*
> 4. Oxytocin
> ...


These are good things to have on hand anyway, even if you plan on using the vet the vet may not be able to get there right away. Keep some supplies on hand!

4 &- Most vets don't want to hand this out (same with 16). We just get a dose from our vet when needed.

For 5, 6, & 12 we used to use the PG and CMPK and still keep some on hand but last year we stared using this https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-cmpk-oral-solution and really like it. We had two "problem does" last year- both heavy milking Lamanchas with 3 big babies.

Scales are wonderful. I use a fish scale and but the kids in a sling to weigh. You can normally get one for around $10


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

We also keep a box of shoulder length gloves.

If the goat is having trouble mix the lube up before the vet arrives. Some vets are not good about using enough lube and do a lot of damage.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I also dose the kids with B-Complex, and Bo-Se at birth. As far as wormer, I would fecal test the does, as herbals may not cut it if they have a worm bloom. As far as your goats, if neither are registered, it will be fine to get a nice buck because you have the possibility of having nicer kids. If you don't register your one that you believe is full ND as NOA, then the kids cannot be registered, nor can they be if the buck is not registered. The ND/Pygmy mix cannot be registered. Not everyone wants registered kids, so it's up to you.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> These are good things to have on hand anyway, even if you plan on using the vet the vet may not be able to get there right away. Keep some supplies on hand!
> 
> 4 &- Most vets don't want to hand this out (same with 16). We just get a dose from our vet when needed.
> 
> ...


Can I get the fish scale at TS or Amazon?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> Can I get the fish scale at TS or Amazon?


The 


goatblessings said:


> I also dose the kids with B-Complex, and Bo-Se at birth. As far as wormer, I would fecal test the does, as herbals may not cut it if they have a worm bloom. As far as your goats, if neither are registered, it will be fine to get a nice buck because you have the possibility of having nicer kids. If you don't register your one that you believe is full ND as NOA, then the kids cannot be registered, nor can they be if the buck is not registered. The ND/Pygmy mix cannot be registered. Not everyone wants registered kids, so it's up to you.


isn't the BoSe a vet prescription? And is the kid puller as scarey as I think? I've been watching a ton of YouTube videos but, it'll be so different in real life!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Yes, Bo-Se is rx. If you decide you need to pull, make sure of the kids position, snare a leg and pull in a downward motion WITH a contraction...... - first time is always unnerving, but it's nice to be prepared. Hopefully kids will present as they should and you can just be the cleanup crew!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Oh....when it’s time for them to kid..if it’s day..will they just go into the barn? Is it typically at night?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

They can kid at anytime day or night. I had some at 9pm 1 am 2 pm - varies. They may or may not go in the barn. I like to have a separate kidding pen when I see labor signs so mama is comfy, doesn't hide kids, and feels secure. It's also nice for you to intervene if needed, and to give mom and kids some tlc after she has delievered.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok, so now my two does are just together, because they always were...so, I should maybe section of a piece of the barn? Maybe..5x7?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would, just in case you need it........


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> If you don't register your one that you believe is full ND as NOA, then the kids cannot be registered,


Just thought I would point out, ND's cannot be Registered as NOA.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

!
Ooops - yes!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok, so these goats cannot be registered, nor the offspring. But, in the future..where do I call, email, etc do such a thing?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Another quick question...my copper bolus comes today. I intend to give them in a yummy treat. My little one loves bananas, so she’s easy. The other girl..is tricky. She likes the peels. Does anyone have a recipe, or a food suggestion for popping in this capsules so they swallow and don’t pop them back out?


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

I haven't had much luck giving copper in a treat. I tried it that way for years and it was always a pain. They will wallow the treat around and then spit out the capsule which is now sticky from being in their mouth. Now I use a balling gun and it is so much easier.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> Ok, so these goats cannot be registered, nor the offspring. But, in the future..where do I call, email, etc do such a thing?


What breeds of goat are you thinking of?

We have Lamanchas, Nubian, and Nigerian Dwarf. They are registered through the American Dairy Goat Association (ADGA). Our Mini Lamanchas are registered through Miniature Dairy Goat Association. Our Kikos were done the the National Kiko Registry (NKR).

American Goat Society (AGS) also does dairy goats but we don't use them any longer, just ADGA.

If you want to get into registered stock, find a good breeder. When you purchase the goats the breeder should give you their paperwork. You will want to become a member of that registry. 
Be weary though, many have gotten taken advantage of and paid registered prices and never received papers.... Whoever you buy from, make sure all their paperwork is current.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Ok, so it’s basically like buying a truly pedigreed dog, but much more serious.....I would stick to Nigerian Dwarfs..do Pygmy get registering? I’m very happy with my girls and they are a great size for me, since I am the one doing the work...so, I don’t want to go any bigger. And, they would always be pets...but the registration would be perfect for selling the kids!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

With your current stock, they would be ND/pygmy mix and grade ND. People who go after registered stock usually stick with ADGA for dairy and the registery for pygmy. Your goat probably would be good for pets (the boys) , or possibly a home milker (does) depending on udder quality when they freshen. You don't really have any good information on parentage for registering, so with your current stock, I would think this would be your market. If you want to get into registered, you need to buy registered. Pygmy do have their own registration. To me size is not an issue unless you have limited housing and acreage. I appreciate the fact that I don't have to keep bending over to trim, milk, etc. My girls and boys are the biggest breed of standard and I can handle them well, even though I'm small and old


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

How do I tell the udder quality? Basically just take pictures and show you all?


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> How do I tell the udder quality? Basically just take pictures and show you all?


Udder quality is determined by quite a few things like texture, balance and symmetry, but mainly by attachment, height and capacity. If you post pictures of their udders with a 12hr fill after they freshen, I'd be happy to tell you what I see in them and I'm sure others would too.

A good Nigerian milker should produce at least a quart per day, but high quality milkers can produce over half a gallon. Milk is measured in lbs and one gallon is approximately 8lbs, though it varies with each goat. I've seen some very nice Nigerians milking 7lbs a day.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Go on the ADGA website - they will show you pics under Linear Appraisal as to how udders are evaluated. You are looking for a good foreudder, medial, rear attachments, teat size, teat placement, udder arch (escutcheon) and capacity. Track your product (weight of milk per day per doe) to get a good idea if your doe is a good producer.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

You guys are the greatest!! The copper bolus came today and I was very nervous about getting it in them without a mess up. I reverted back to some old threads and found that goats like marshmallows!! So, I tested it, and, yep! So, they ate their copper just fine!! I was sooo relieved!!


lada823 said:


> I haven't had much luck giving copper in a treat. I tried it that way for years and it was always a pain. They will wallow the treat around and then spit out the capsule which is now sticky from being in their mouth. Now I use a balling gun and it is so much easier.


You guys are the greatest!! The copper bolus came today and I was very nervous about getting it in them without a mess up. I reverted back to some old threads and found that goats like marshmallows!! So, I tested it, and, yep! So, they ate their copper just fine!! I was sooo relieved!!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> We also keep a box of shoulder length gloves.
> 
> If the goat is having trouble mix the lube up before the vet arrives. Some vets are not good about using enough lube and do a lot of damage.


Ok, I've got my order almost placed with Jeffers..just a few questions.. 
1. Propylene glycol...really something I need to have on hand, or is it a wait and see item?
2. Uterus bolus..(teramyacin). I saw this at TS for goats..but on Jeffers they only have it for eye ointment for cats, dogs..I actually have it for my duck. I'm sure that's not what it's for with my does. Wonder why Jeffers doesn't sell it? Should. Just rely on TS?
3. The kid milk replacer. 26% protein....there are many options....I have no clue which one to choose. Any tips?
4. Tube system syringe kit...this didn't even come up on Jeffers. I've tube fed my duck for four weeks. So, I have a grasp on it. But, where can I find this goat kit?
5. Nutridrench stomach tube and 60 ml dosage syringe....I bought the nutridrench....bought the 60 ml syringe..there is a 20' stomache tube..I'm guessing that's for a horse?? Is there something else I should be looking for?

Ok..I think that's all that I had question. The rest is either in my shopping cart, or I already bought. . Thank you guys for all this help!! The count down is on!

oh yeah..where do I find the article on the Doe Rules? I heard it referred To in a thread in the waiting room and I've been searching for this info like crazy!!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would not use a stomach tube for nutridrench. Just an empty syringe. Propolene glycol is usually used "in case" for ketosis. I prefer to use the "magic" recipe with karo syrup, molasses and corn oil - the propolene really burns. You can decide if this is something you want to use. Jeffers does sell tubing for weak kids, not sure of the search term, but it's on there.... perhaps kidding section. Don't use kid milk replacer -it's junk. If you need milk, use whole cow's milk from the grocery. Do make sure you have a colostrum replacer - but only use in the first 24 hours IF mom has NO colostrum of her own.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> I would not use a stomach tube for nutridrench. Just an empty syringe. Propolene glycol is usually used "in case" for ketosis. I prefer to use the "magic" recipe with karo syrup, molasses and corn oil - the propolene really burns. You can decide if this is something you want to use. Jeffers does sell tubing for weak kids, not sure of the search term, but it's on there.... perhaps kidding section. Don't use kid milk replacer -it's junk. If you need milk, use whole cow's milk from the grocery. Do make sure you have a colostrum replacer - but only use in the first 24 hours IF mom has NO colostrum of her own.


Where do I buy that? I thought I had to actually have another goat? I saw the 60 ml syringe on Jeffers to use for tuning a weak kid..got that.your recipe sounds much better than ethylene glycol! And, really..this is the 5gird time I've been told to just get whole m8lk from the store for the kids! Thanks a ton!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> Where do I buy that? I thought I had to actually have another goat? I saw the 60 ml syringe on Jeffers to use for tuning a weak kid..got that.your recipe sounds much better than ethylene glycol! And, really..this is the 5gird time I've been told to just get whole m8lk from the store for the kids! Thanks a ton!


I found the colostrum on Jeffers also,


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

I cut back my does’ feed to one cup twice daily...apparently I was giving more and didn’t realize it because the scoop in the barn is deceiving. Anyways...they are acting like I’m starving them. Should I give them a bit more? I’ve read so much how many don’t give any alfalfa pellets at this point so the kids aren’t too large. Once again, I just feel like a bad goat mom, and their big eyes, and guilt gets the better of me. I’m sticking to my guns now unless someone tells me otherwise. As for deworming..I still just have them on my herbal and everything looks good! . Should I give them a chemical, just in case? If so..which one would you all do for this stage of the late pregnancy.....I’m scared.

oh, they still show no interest in the loose minerals since I screwed up and put too much out last time and they got moisture. I have even held them in my hand many times to their faces...but, not much nibbles. I made a separate thread about this, but didn’t get any feedback. So, any tips on this one? Maria rose just tells me to watch for the signs of deficiency...I’m am not at all near her expertise.....I stare them down...but then get paranoid.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

You should never deworm "just in case". Only deworm if they need it. 

I give alfalfa pellets pretty much free choice to all my goats who are growing, pregnant, or milking. 

A lot of people use replamin weekly to supplement minerals on a more individual basis.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Free choice? Pellets? Really? So many others said to cut way back? I know the deworming “Just in case” is a dumb idea..but, I have seen on YouTube how the babies with worms can die...

ok, replemin...sold at TS? Going there in a bit.... Favorite store


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Denise Troy said:


> Free choice? Pellets? Really? So many others said to cut way back? I know the deworming "Just in case" is a dumb idea..but, I have seen on YouTube how the babies with worms can die...
> 
> ok, replemin...sold at TS? Going there in a bit.... Favorite store


Oh, just saw I need to order it...will do...thanks!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Newborns are not born with worms or parasites. Some folks will start coccidia (a parasite not a worm) prevention around 3 weeks of age, and run a fecal at 4 weeks to determine if kids have a worm issue. If TSC doesn't carry replamin, Jeffers does. You will find a lot of different opinions on feed management. Many times it's just keeping an eye on your girls and finding what works best for you. If your hay is low in calcium, then the alfalfa pellets are fabulous to add.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

Yes I give alfalfa free choice. I also feed grass hay free choice. The pellets help balance the phosphorus in the hay and add protein.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Just a little suggestion. Whatever you feed, please do any & all changes a little at a time. Its hard on their system to do drastic changes. Being pregnant is tough enough. So please do all feed changes slowly with a little at a time.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Newborns are not born with worms or parasites. Some folks will start coccidia (a parasite not a worm) prevention around 3 weeks of age, and run a fecal at 4 weeks to determine if kids have a worm issue. If TSC doesn't carry replamin, Jeffers does. You will find a lot of different opinions on feed management. Many times it's just keeping an eye on your girls and finding what works best for you. If your hay is low in calcium, then the alfalfa pellets are fabulous to add.


Virus for coccidia treatment?


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Just a little suggestion. Whatever you feed, please do any & all changes a little at a time. Its hard on their system to do drastic changes. Being pregnant is tough enough. So please do all feed changes slowly with a little at a time.


Yes, that's what I did this morning, just added 1/2 cup to each one. I figured I would do that for a few days and then increase again


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Not sure what you mean by virus? Coccidia is a parasite.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Not sure what you mean by virus? Coccidia is a parasite.


It was supposed to say Corid...guess i didn't catch the spellcheck...sorry. ..oops


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

We had some exciting news today...my hubby built me my kidding pen! It’s 4’ x 8’ and the girls were skeptical at first, but I fed them in there an put some hay in there to make it somewhere they would feel safe in. They it was more ok. They definitely liked the extra alfalfa pellets that I gave them today..just a total of one cup more. It’s more like what I was giving before I measured and realized my scoop was bigger than I thought! Tomorrow I plan to get them on the milk stand again, I gave them a break after being on it three days last week, for hoof trimming and meds. Ok, that’s all the updates, I’ve got my supplies ordered, and others already getting organized in a duffle bag...calendar the barn..binders bought and organized...on a roll!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

You go Girl! Welcome to being a Goat Mom & Dad! :great:


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> You go Girl! Welcome to being a Goat Mom & Dad! :great:


Awww, thanks...it feels great at this point...my stomach is on pins and needles everyday with anticipation...but Chris thinks goats have been doing this since the beginning of time...which is true! :clapping: it feels like I'm the one who will be kidding!! :heehee:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:great:


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

So, last night when I had my girls on the milk stand I got a good feel of their udders. Stormy, my Pygmy mix, has a nice firm grapefruit size udder. I'm very proud..Busty's is growing very big, but it definitely not as firm...I'm sure she has kidded before. But she continues to sit sit down while I'm touching her nipples to get her used to my touch for the kids and milking. That will be a struggle, and ruin any milk I've collected. Can anyone show a picture of their stainless steal bowl? I'm trying to come up with one..I have one in my kitchen, but it might be too big.

so the kidding stall, my hubby just got done building me a very nice one. Since I only have two goats...can I just put the one in labor in there, and then keep the others in the big area. So, basically, the important this is that they will be separated, right? And, I have a way to tie my halter to the wall in the bigger area, so that won't be an issue. I just don't want to lose my barn room for them to lounge...it would work be be cramped and I'd have to take my milk stand out...which create problems.

both girls are laying around a lot more. I suppose it's just due to this phase of the pregnancy? Nothing to be concerned about?

The brown backend is Busty...the black is Stormy..sorry for being blurry...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Looking good.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Don't worry at this point about handling her udder much. You don't really know if you have a problem milker until after kids are born - most settle into it. You don't want to milk into a bowl. A small pail, or even something else that is clean to transfer over immediately into a stainless bucket etc is fine. Jeffers does carry small stainless flat sided buckets and others. Also, valley vet, caprine supply, etc.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> A small pail, or even something else that is clean to transfer over immediately into a stainless bucket etc is fine. Jeffers does carry small stainless flat sided buckets and others. Also, valley vet, caprine supply, etc.


Exactly!
Don't be in a rush to get everything that everyone else has...(except life saving meds of course)
I use a 1 quart stainless steel cooking pot I found on sale at Bed Bath and Beyond, it's got a glass top so I can cover it while I'm walking back to the house with the milk. Now that I have a lot more milkers, I have a 3 quart pot that I empty the smaller one into. It also has a lid and works wonderfully. So there are a lot of ways to do things, you just have to experiment to find what will work for YOU.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> So, last night when I had my girls on the milk stand I got a good feel of their udders. Stormy, my Pygmy mix, has a nice firm grapefruit size udder. I'm very proud..Busty's is growing very big, but it definitely not as firm...I'm sure she has kidded before. But she continues to sit sit down while I'm touching her nipples to get her used to my touch for the kids and milking. That will be a struggle, and ruin any milk I've collected. Can anyone show a picture of their stainless steal bowl? I'm trying to come up with one..I have one in my kitchen, but it might be too big.
> 
> so the kidding stall, my hubby just got done building me a very nice one. Since I only have two goats...can I just put the one in labor in there, and then keep the others in the big area. So, basically, the important this is that they will be separated, right? And, I have a way to tie my halter to the wall in the bigger area, so that won't be an issue. I just don't want to lose my barn room for them to lounge...it would work be be cramped and I'd have to take my milk stand out...which create problems.
> 
> ...


This is the small bucket i have that worked for my nigi. When looking for milking buckets.... look for seamless ones.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/mobile-marketing/content/iosAppStoreRedirector.html?appStoreUrl=https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id297606951?mt=8&webUrl=https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004R1IU3M?psc=1&browserType=SAFARI&th=1&psc=1


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Don't worry about the sitting down your doe is doing. She is squatting so the kid can reach her teats more easily. After she kids and you start milking her, (with kids on, at least 2 weeks after kidding so,the baby gets enough milk) she will learn not to squat, or you can put a little stool or table under her belly to hold her up! 

You will do fine. Most goats kid with no problem. Remember, most postings here are for the problems, the majority of goats are usually fine. But that would make for a boring forum, everyone always posting, "no problems"! :heehee:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Lots of great advice in this thread! Good luck on your does, they look like they are coming along very well! We raise Boer goats, so I have no experience milking and when we do milk some it's usually just for colostrum and something I let my husband do as I'm lousy at milking them out lol.

I saw mention of wanting to hang a camera? I love using cameras. if you have wifi in your barn you can get a wifi camera for about $50 on Amazon. Look up Tenvis camera and look for ones that are similar with really good ratings - does not have to be Tenvis brand, there are several brands that all offer similar models. I zip tie my Tenvis camera where I want it, making sure it's secure well, then cut the zip ties and take it down when not in use, or I can move it to another location.

About a week before the does are due, we tend to put them in their kidding stall at night, then out as normal during the day to get them adjusted to the space so they aren't so they are acquainted with 'their space.' I can also get an idea of how much water, hay and feed they are eating. Plus I can watch them on the camera - I will warn ya... goat tv IS VERY ADDICTING lol!

For my kidding kit, I have a very basic bag I put together and keep by the door ready to go out that includes - 
**Iodine and an empty water bottle (I put iodine in the bottle, grab baby, put it's back to my belly, water bottle opening over the naval, then turn the water bottle up to splash iodine on the cord - I splash 3 good soakings - a little bit of Iodine goes a long way so don't need much - If more than one kid I put more and just use the same bottle never had an issue - put cap on bottle and discard afterward).

** Dental floss - in case I need to tie off an umbilical cord that is too long and needs cut, or one that is bleeding quite a bit, or if the cord doesn't break, I'll tie it off, and cut below the floss.

** Clean, old bath towels

** Gloves and grocery bags - I put placenta in the bags... we tie them up and toss them in the trash lol.

** Water bottle or 1 gallon of clean warm water - for cleaning hands. I will fill up a gallon with warm water if I know I'm about to head out, especially in the winter.

That's my usual kidding bag!

BUT... I have my kidding kit on stand by. Our barn is right behind the house, so I can run right in if need be.
It's a fishing tackle box. I keep needles, syringes, thermometer, and medications in it - my most used medications for kidding season are:
*Dexamethasone (vet RX), for weak kids/kids who inhale fluid/complications or kids from does I've had to induce to kid early. This stuff is great especially if you plan to kid out more than a couple of does. It's around $10-12 a bottle from the vet. Definitely a life saver. 
*B-Complex - great for babies who need a boost 
* Thiamine - if I don't use B-Complex then I'll use a little Thiamine for babies who need a boost
*Banamine - for mom, only give AFTER she drops placenta so it doesn't stop contractions which are needed to get that placenta out. I only use Banamine if they need it - hard delivery, first timers who are very sore. Very rarely some does might not let kids nurse because of pain, so keep that in mind (and in any notes you might write down!)

I keep the heating pad, and hair dryer near the door in case I have a cold, wet kid.

DON"T USE HEAT LAMPS!! be very careful and make sure if you need a heat lamp that you set it up as safely as absolutely possible.
We use heating barrels for our Boer goat kids. It's 55 gallon plastic food grade barrel that we cut a hole big enough for the kids to get in/out, but so mom can't get in. Drill tiny holes in the bottom for urine to escape. We have a hole in the middle in the top and we pull a heat lamp up and secure it, then secure the barrel to the wall, put some bedding in the bottom and teach kids to go in and come out to nurse. A lot of times the barrel is enough and the lamp is not needed. Also helps to keep mom's from laying on babies. 
This is a heating barrel, smaller breeds would need smaller holes we put old garden hose around the wire to prevent mom from trying to reach and chew on them (never had an issue):


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

:shrug::coolmoves:


Goats Rock said:


> Don't worry about the sitting down your doe is doing. She is squatting so the kid can reach her teats more easily. After she kids and you start milking her, (with kids on, at least 2 weeks after kidding so,the baby gets enough milk) she will learn not to squat, or you can put a little stool or table under her belly to hold her up!
> 
> You will do fine. Most goats kid with no problem. Remember, most postings here are for the problems, the majority of goats are usually fine. But that would make for a boring forum, everyone always posting, "no problems"! :heehee:


That just made me feel excellent! My husband keeps telling me I'm going overboard....I don't think I ammm


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It's good to be prepared, but don't go overboard. Only worry about stuff you have direct control over. If it can't be controlled, you'll just wear yourself out worrying. (I have 4 adult human kids, I have the corner on worrying!) I finally, after 50+ years decided worrying was wearing on me too much. Now I try to only worry about what I can actually fix. Good luck!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

HoosierShadow said:


> Lots of great advice in this thread! Good luck on your does, they look like they are coming along very well! We raise Boer goats, so I have no experience milking and when we do milk some it's usually just for colostrum and something I let my husband do as I'm lousy at milking them out lol.
> 
> I saw mention of wanting to hang a camera? I love using cameras. if you have wifi in your barn you can get a wifi camera for about $50 on Amazon. Look up Tenvis camera and look for ones that are similar with really good ratings - does not have to be Tenvis brand, there are several brands that all offer similar models. I zip tie my Tenvis camera where I want it, making sure it's secure well, then cut the zip ties and take it down when not in use, or I can move it to another location.
> 
> ...


Where were you yesterday when I made my order to Jeffers? :lol: No, I bought everything except the banamine, and the dexamesazone--which I will call the vet about on Monday. I need to talk to her anyways, just to andante her on things.  
As for the heat lamp..I have a few ceramic ones that I use for chickens coops, ducklings, and, believe it or not, most recently, a mini pig! Talk about delicate! Which, is why we think my hubby will build crates. I saw on YouTube some ideas. For the mini pig, he built...he was a contractor....a box that had plywood, insulation, then plywood, and used the heat lamp. We used heat tape for her water. It was nice and toasty. We kept a thermometer in there and he named adjustments to it according to where we wanted the temp to be. So, that's what we're thinking now.

I've had my kidding bad in my bedroom for a week now...ready to go. But now I'll add the grocery bags, and some extras you mentioned. My barn is not that close..but that's why I bought the camera...just came yesterday. My son will be here tomorrow...he can figure it out...:lol:


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> It's good to be prepared, but don't go overboard. Only worry about stuff you have direct control over. If it can't be controlled, you'll just wear yourself out worrying. (I have 4 adult human kids, I have the corner on worrying!) I finally, after 50+ years decided worrying was wearing on me too much. Now I try to only worry about what I can actually fix. Good luck!


It's funny, because I used to worry wayyy to much, then the farm took it all away...now with the kidding...it's back...hopefully it's temporary!!!


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

What is covenex 8. I read it should be given...besides CDT..to pregnant does..and then the kids....


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> What is covenex 8. I read it should be given...besides CDT..to pregnant does..and then the kids....


Covexin8 is for cattle. It is like the cdt but covers other things more suited to cattle.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

So, the nutridrench, is that another just in case item? I give it to my ducks when they are sick, not all the time...but I wasn’t sure if the kids got it right off the bat for a boost. I’ve been reading a ton, and watching videos..that’s not covered too much. Except it did say to deworm and treat the kids for coccidiosis in the first few weeks. Is that true? I’m referring to the Cocci part


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I do not care for Nutridrench. It burns their throat. For newborns, a dab of black strap molasses in their mouth seems to give them a shot of energy. (Along with the Vitamin B complex and if needed, Bo-Se and vitamin E gel cap).


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I use Nutra drench, it is packed with all the good things a baby needs and stimulates appetite. 
Just don't over use it. 
It only burns a short time.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

I have a question about delivery...when I have my arm up there... I’ve been told to make sure to not grab legs from two kids...and obviously I knew that from watching so much. But really...how can you tell once you’re in there. Is it a basic feel of going up the bodies and feeling for the heads and then making sure I have the correct arms due to the shoulders? And I just read in another post about breach deliveries. I plan to watch many videos on that next..in between checking on Busty for toxemia. Any major tips for handling it? I saw that some printed out pictures for in their binder...by chance did you bookmark the link? It seems there is sooo much searching before you get to some decent info...and much along the way scares you. Thanks everyone!!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Denise Troy said:


> I have a question about delivery...when I have my arm up there... I've been told to make sure to not grab legs from two kids...and obviously I knew that from watching so much. But really...how can you tell once you're in there. Is it a basic feel of going up the bodies and feeling for the heads and then making sure I have the correct arms due to the shoulders? And I just read in another post about breach deliveries. I plan to watch many videos on that next..in between checking on Busty for toxemia. Any major tips for handling it? I saw that some printed out pictures for in their binder...by chance did you bookmark the link? It seems there is sooo much searching before you get to some decent info...and much along the way scares you. Thanks everyone!!


 Be slow and patient IF the need comes to go in. It helps me to close my eyes. Researching a d learning all you can is great but stop overthinkin all of the things. .


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

I called my vet..she said..most of the times you go out and just find the kids...she said stop worrying so much....hoping she’s right.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

She is right! With a first time kidding for you, be patient, only go in IF mama is pushing for a long time and nothing happens (max for me is 30 minutes). The calmer you are, the calmer she is. Goats kid breech kids fine in most cases, just make sure to get the goo out of their mouth/lungs with a baby sucker thing (forget the right name)...... Breathe!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Normal birthing position is, when you see 2 hoofs, one will be slightly ahead of the other, then a head in a diving position. 

Always remember the 30-45 minute rule. If no kid is on the ground by then, the doe needs help. 

Try not to worry.
I know it is easier said than done.

Take a deep breath, blow out and imagine if you will, goat anatomy, and the way the legs moves. 
Front legs bend at the knee and the back leg bend the opposite way. 

If you have 2 legs and no head and being new at kidding, I recommend a vet right away. This is a tough situation. 

If you are stressed and panicked, you will work too fast and may hurt the doe. Be gentle, work as quickly as possible, yet calm. 

When having to reach in, most of the time, there is only 1 kid at the door. Close your eyes and imagine what you are feeling and the way a leg feels, is it a back leg? Front leg? Even if they are breach, you do not have to turn them around for them to be born, just pull them out. 
But, if they are breach, get them out as quickly as possible, because the umbilical cord(life line) is most likely going to break, after a certain point of the birthing process. They will suffocate with no air. 

If though, you feel 3 or 4 legs, instead of 2, find out which legs go to the kid who is in line to be born. 
Then gently push back the wrong leg(s). Then make sure the kid at the door is positioned properly to be born, then pull the kid. 
Try to allow mama goat to push, but sometimes she is too exhausted to do so, which is OK to pull the kid. 

Only pull downward, towards her udder. Never pull upward.

Always wash up before you enter a doe. You can use a lube.

If mama goat is not dilated enough, for a kid to get out, manually do it by, going around, just inside her vulva area with your finger tips, all the way around the opening. Gently pulling outward, do not rip her, it is gentle stimulation, yet firm. Keep doing it until she is dilated enough for the kids head the come through. 

If the kids head is to big to get out, do the same and work around the vulva area and the kids head with your finger tip(index and middle finger), working as if you are petting the kids head. 
It may be tight, but get your fingers in there. You can start pulling at the kids head, with your finger tips, then hand if you can get your hand in there, after a certain point, to get the kid out.
Once you get the head past that tight point and free, you can pull the kid, at the legs. 
Every once in a while, when dilating around a kids head, try to pull the legs from time to time. Sometimes it takes a good hard pull and then, they are out.

Be aware, the doe may scream bloody murder, when pulling a large kid. 

If though by 30-45 minutes, you cannot get the kid out, call for help. 

If at anytime, you have doubt, call a vet right away.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

For me...i get anxiouse. I have to feel for mamas contraction. You can feel them as you work. Keep her rythem..and less problems for her later. Deep breathes help slow me down too. 
Youll do great...but first...be the audience..its her show..not yours.


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## Denise Troy (Aug 31, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> For me...i get anxiouse. I have to feel for mamas contraction. You can feel them as you work. Keep her rythem..and less problems for her later. Deep breathes help slow me down too.
> Youll do great...but first...be the audience..its her show..not yours.


Absolutely her show...honestly...I'd like to do as little as I need to, because I don't want to make a mistake


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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