# Herd dog question/problem



## Micgrace (Sep 22, 2012)

We have a Anatolion Pyranees and she was born in April. We put her directly with our goats, she doesnt roam in our yard. I notice that sometimes she runs the goats. I am sure she is bored and wants to play but we have show goats and do not want them hurt or messed up in any kind of way. One of our does is pregnant and I dont want her running her and making her lose the kid/kids, so in the day time we started putting her on a long chain and at night we pen up the goats. Here comes the problem.....she is very hyper and jumps on us, she will not listen. She can literly push us down. We can hit, whip, and hollar at her and it does not faze her. When she stands straight up she is as tall as me. We have to do something, but I just dont know what to do...WE NEED HELP. I would love to leave her unchained but I am scared she will hurt our goats.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

It's gonna take patience and perseverance... Walk her on a lead with the goats and do corrections for bad behavior. A zip run is supposed to be good so the goats can get away and the dog still has se freedom too. It does get hard to correct when they get so big...you have to get their attention..


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

She is still a pup. My boy jumped on me till he was around 9 mos.
The cable is excellent implement.
You DO have to be a *strong* alpha with these dogs. I growled NO & bared my teeth. I rolled that dog to the ground shoved his face in the dirt & let him know who was boss.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im sorry your having problems with your dog  I agree , you have to get it across to him that YOU are the alpha and he needs to respect you and your wishes.

Nancy , your scaring me


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Laura that's not all. You wanna really be skeered? Be my pup. Chew on a does leg . You will get pinned down with the wrath of a mama bear.
These dogs are not gentle with each other.
I will not be gentle with them when it comes to correction.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow ! Im sure I would be doing the same thing as you Nancy if I had seen that happen ! I hear ya !


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

You should never fully trust a LGD with stock until they are at least two years old. I have an older seasoned pro that works well, but I have two under a year old Pyrenees/Maremma crosses that I have in with goats that do not run from them. I do not have first hand experience with anatolian's but I do know they need to know that you are the top dog. If you pm me your email address I can send you an article that the LGD breeder gave me when I got my pups. It's a good read but focuses on Maremma's. 

If you have some older goats that are not afraid of the pup or that you do not plan to show I would pull them into a field that can be used to train the pup. You may want to contact an Anatolian breeder for more direct information on how to show dominance in the correct fashion for that breed. There is a good FB livestock dog group that you could talk to about that breed if you want their information just pm me. Hope this helps.


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

Micgrace said:


> We can hit, whip, and hollar at her and it does not faze her.


I definitely think there are more effective and humane training tactics that can be used. Pain and yelling is not a language dogs uderstand... I hope you are able to find a solution


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

I agree. When our pyrenees misbehaved when she was younger. We would put her in "time out" which meant locked in barn for little bit away from us and our goats. We also ignored her. She hated being ignored and that turned out to be punishment enough.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I agree on using different methods to train , by all means. But , at the moment and given their sheer size , sometimes its a last resort or the reaction you have being at a loss on what to do. If a dog had my goats leg in its mouth and was chewing on it , I would most likely have done the same. But it isn't the right way to continue to retrain. It can and most likely will cause further and more serious aggression .
But this is a breed I do not know , so I can't really say what will work and what won't , just add my opinions. It is a scary situation to say the least.


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## Micgrace (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone, we will start doing these suggestions. I love this dog to death even at a younger age we heard her at night growling and barking/alerting in a deep voice. We thought it was a stray dog. We went outside and it was her!!! alerting us, coyotes werer barking way off in the distance.....lets just say we were so proud and shocked at what she was doing and sounding like at such a young age


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## littlelo (Aug 19, 2013)

You do have to be tough with herding dogs. We have two Austrian shepherds to here cattle. Teach the dog a command that means "herd that please". Our command is "put 'em up". The dogs generally won't herd now until they hear that. (Which was hilarious the other day when we were done target shooting our bows at a big fake deer and we told the dogs to put it up. They were so confused why it wouldn't move). We do have to be very firm with these dogs. Training collars have worked really well. Personally for our dogs, treats when they do something right has been so effective. One or both of us almost always have little treats in our pockets. So whenever we give the dog a command and it obeys, treat. Disobey, zap.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Same breed cross as yours, ours born in May... I have noticed how independent minded they are- one thing that I found useful was a No and squirt some lemon juice in his mouth (you know the little plastic balls that look like fake lemons they sell at the grocery store) or even a squirt water-- it gives an immediate consequence to the NO and the dog not following thru-- that way you dont have to tussle with the dog (dominence theory is outdated, going out on a line here)...
Also ours likes to run the goats too, I think it is a puppy thing, (puppy being until age 2 like the others said)...we put a mini tire, like from a lawn tractor on him on a chain it hangs a foot off the ground and bangs into his knees when he runs-- I caught him in the act and put him on it more of the reinforcing the NO to him-- plus it slows him down, the goats can easily get away , and really he does not chase them with the tire on-- we did this with our chicken killing Giant Schnauzer (I admit I screamed my head off when I caught her killing my favorite Roo, I aint perfect, but I was just super upset) and after 6 months lotsa reinforcement, and 8 dead chickens, she is perfect with them now....
Also check out Dogforums.com alot of good training advice there and they will go into why no Cesar Milan type dominance stuff please.....

PPS
your thread title did confuse me some! LGDs are not herding dogs in the typical sense at all....
there is a real, and big difference. The "herding" that you are seeing is a juvenile puppy play style (yes they can still injure a goat doing this d/t their size and strength) but it is not the same drive as with a true herding dog like the Aussies and BCs.....
check out the link I posted under the LGD books and training thread under Precious Protectors.... its good info....


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## flannelberry (Jun 3, 2012)

Micgrace said:


> We have a Anatolion Pyranees and she was born in April. We put her directly with our goats, she doesnt roam in our yard. I notice that sometimes she runs the goats.


She's far too young to be unsupervised with goats. One excellent recommendation would be to go to lgd.org and get help there.

Right away though, I'd create a pen within the goat pen so she's getting used to them but can't get herself into trouble.

She's not a herding dog at all -please don't try to use those resources with her. It's a totally different method of training a LGD. And please don't whip her - that won't make any sense at all.  Especially since she's doing what she is really supposed to at that age.

FWIW - I have had both lgd and herding dogs.

More later - heading into town.


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## klburt73 (Nov 1, 2013)

I agree with CAjerseychick: hang something from their collar that interferes with running ASAP when you see them running goats. I have a Pyrenees/golden retriever mix that did the same thing. It took a few times of this, but he learned, and it involved no pain just irritation.

BTW, I also used a similar tactic to keep him from digging under the fence when he was much younger. Now he is too big to try.


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## flannelberry (Jun 3, 2012)

klburt73 said:


> I agree with CAjerseychick: hang something from their collar that interferes with running ASAP when you see them running goats.


Speaking plainly, it can also result in a dead dog. The breeder we got our pyr from had that happen to a dog someone bought from her. I think though, if someone is home to keep an eye on her it can be a good derrent. I had a goat I had to do it to (just to see where he was getting out) but was home when he got hung up so no worries.

I agree 100% with CAJersey chick on the no Caesar Milan stuff and lemon juice! They hate that.

Seriously, do check out 
lgd.org

The site is full of articles on training your lgd to work as well as a list full of extremely helpful and knowledgable people. I have been so appreciative of the members there.

I hope it works out for you and I definitely applaud your efforts - too many people blame the dog when they're doing something like this and aren't willing to retrain themselves first so they can meet the dog's needs. Good on you for not being that person.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Oh... right, I forgot to mention, there is always someone home to monitor dogs/ animals (with an hour or two off for errands in town)-- its not like we hang something off the dog in miles of wilderness to roam....
we have close pastures 2 acres around our house.
Just playing on the LGD site this am they do have great info-- really liked this one:
http://www.lgd.org/civilizedpyr2.htm

we took our pup to puppy class too and I take him in the car to the feedstore/petstore at least once a week and he comes in with me and walks around and meets friendly strangers....
It is very important to keep your LGD socialized....


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## flannelberry (Jun 3, 2012)

CAjerseychick said:


> It is very important to keep your LGD socialized....


Could not agree more.


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