# Freakin' out bigtime!



## montanadolphin

Ok, so I know there are poisonous plants that are not good for goats, a lot which can be deadly.

I have NO IDEA what some of them are! Or how to recognize them! We just bought this house and have only been here since January, and I discover new plants every day! The previous owners were plant addicts! I have some sort of Asian honeyscuckle bush, vining honeysuckle, blackberries, raspberries, wild blueberries, persimmon trees, yuccas, butterfly bush, daylilies, other lilies, blue fescue, milkweed, hostas, azaleas, creeping phlox, salvia, astilbe, roses, irises, crocus, tulips, daisies, plum tree, weeds like buttercups, clover, wood sorrel, dandelions, chamomile, and tons of weeds I haven't a clue on! We have 8.6 mostly wooded acres, so there's tons of trees too! Chestnut oaks, other oaks, tree of heaven, empress trees, tulip poplars, dogwood, sassafras, and a whole bunch more that I don't know what they are!

I'm afraid to let the babies play in the yard! What if they eat something that they aren't supposed to???


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## elchivito

You've probably got a County Ag Extension agent close by who can look your place over for toxic plants. In general, well fed goats won't overeat on a toxic plant and for lots of those plants listed as toxic to goats, it takes more than just a taste to make them sick.


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## goathiker

I have some sort of Asian honeyscuckle bush, toxic in large amounts
vining honeysuckle, berries are toxic rest of plant fine
blackberries, fine 
raspberries, fine
wild blueberries, fine
persimmon trees, unripe fruit toxic rest of plant fine
yuccas, toxic, contain cyanide
butterfly bush, several plants are called butterfly bush. Asian types poisonous
daylilies, fine
other lilies, not recommended
blue fescue, not recommended
milkweed, toxic
hostas, toxic 
azaleas, very toxic burn them, I won't even have them on the place
creeping phlox, fine
salvia, toxic
astilbe, fine
roses, fine
irises, toxic
crocus, toxic
tulips, toxic
daisies, real daisies toxic, the native weed type (asters) fine
plum tree, wilted leaves and spring growth toxic
weeds like buttercups, toxic in large amounts. They never bother my boys though.
clover, fine 
wood sorrel,fine
dandelions, fine
chamomile, fine
and tons of weeds I haven't a clue on! We have 8.6 mostly wooded acres, so there's tons of trees too! 
Chestnut oaks, toxic
other oaks, white oaks okay others more toxic
tree of heaven, fine
empress trees, very fine, grown for fodder
tulip poplars, fine
dogwood, fine
sassafras, fine, they will eat them up though.


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## montanadolphin

Wow, I have like 30 yuccas growing in my yard, and at least 15 hostas. Our woods are PREDOMINANTLY chestnut oaks! Fescue is most of the grass in the yard, two azalea bushes, irises EVERYWHERE...

Maybe I shouldn't have goats?????


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## goathiker

Are they Horse Chestnut/Buckeye trees or Swamp Chestnut oaks?


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## montanadolphin

goathiker said:


> Are they Horse Chestnut/Buckeye trees or Swamp Chestnut oaks?


I have no idea! I just know they are chestnut oaks...really big acorns, dark green leaves...I can take a picture of one and post it!


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## Stacykins

elchivito said:


> You've probably got a County Ag Extension agent close by who can look your place over for toxic plants. In general, well fed goats won't overeat on a toxic plant and for lots of those plants listed as toxic to goats, it takes more than just a taste to make them sick.


Despite being well fed, my crew tries to snarf down milkweed at every opprotunity then can. I can stop them as soon as they grab a single leaf. I've yanked up every single milkweed I can find, and keep on it. But the seeds blew in from a neighbor's field...it is a never ending battle.


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## goathiker

montanadolphin said:


> I have no idea! I just know they are chestnut oaks...really big acorns, dark green leaves...I can take a picture of one and post it!


 Nope, that told me what I needed. The only time they would get poisoned by them is if they are really hungry and eating huge amounts of acorns. It takes a lot to poison them.


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## montanadolphin

Here are some pics of the tree I'm talking about. I also am including some areas that haven't been mowed or weedeat yet to give you an idea of what I'm up against! Also, my garden pond...I have a feeling, that to my goats, I should name it Poisoned Garden Pond. Some others I forgot to mention...vetch, yarrow, wild carrots, wild onions, daffodils (dozens!) and violets.

I think I'm in a lot of trouble!!!


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## montanadolphin

Ooops! Sorry, I must have been typing my post when you said I didn't need to take pictures!


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## goathiker

That's fine. Let me go milk real quick and I'll go over some of this with you in about 1/2 an hour. Be right back.


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## montanadolphin

Ok, thank you!


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## goathiker

You're biggest problem is going to be the ornamentals. Your ground cover is fine, that type of weedy stuff is what they like best. The lawn grass may or may not have endorphins. If it does they shouldn't eat it while pregnant. Your woods are going to be fine within the native tree areas. 
The thing is that with your dog, they are not going to able to just run loose anyway. I would pick them a spot for about a 60 by 60 foot pen where they would have some shade and some sun. Then that spot could be cleared and made safe for them. There are people that would buy some of those plants off you to give you fencing money. 
Then just as soon as they are strong enough, take them out and teach them to follow you on a leash. That's easy with bottle babies, just start working with them about an hour before bottle time while they are hungry. They will run right after you looking for their bottle as long as you never pull on the leash. Daily walks in the woods to browse are easy and fun.
That gives you time to work on fencing off a safe section of woods for pasture. 
Boer does are not normally high energy goats. They tend to be easier on fences and content as long as they have a manger of hay.
Everything has a solution. Give your dog the yard and let the goats have part of the woods.


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## montanadolphin

hmm...there is an area that has fencing already. I can't take a picture now to show you cuz it's dark outside, but I will tomorrow cuz I'd really like your opinion on it.

It is about 5 feet or so (i could be way off...i'm terrible at judging distances) from the yard in the treeline. It's kinda shaped like a rectangle, but not straight. It's a big area. There is no gate, just an opening where a gate may have been but is no longer there. There are trees inside the area, a lot of dead fall and carpet of dead leaves. There are some wild blueberry plants growing, but that's the only shrubbery/plants I can recall. I was considering fixing it up for my chickens when they get full grown and I can feel confident leaving them in an area that size that was not protected from above, so I could let them forage during the day instead of being stuck in their run until an hour before dark. Do chickens and goats get along? If not, then i will find another alternative for my chickens since I have time. The area I'm speaking of can be for my baby girls. IF you think it will work for them. I do know there are a couple of spots in the fence that need to be repaired...or something could get in after them...the spots are little holes in the fencing. Oh boy, I just read over what I wrote so far and it looks like I'm rambling. LOL, sorry. I'm not very good with wording anything.

I'll take a pic tomorrow morning and see what you think!


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## goathiker

My chickens 4 minutes ago


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## jennnaragsdale

My chickens roost in the goat pen at night the have an old cabinet without a top they sleep there in the middle of the pen

Sent from my iPhone using GoatSpot


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## montanadolphin

Oh good! So they could be in there together, that's great!!

I did find two pictures of the area I'm talking about...I took them during one of our snow storms. It's not the greatest way to show you how big the area is, but it will give you an idea of where it's located...it's in the woods, with trees inside the fencing.


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## goathiker

Yeah, that could be fixed up really good to start with. The nice thing about that fencing is the goats can't get their heads through but the chickens can. So you can put your chicken food in a trough on the outside and not have to worry about the goats eating it and bloating.


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## montanadolphin

I just used a walking wheel to determine an approximate measurement on the dimensions of the fenced in area. It's actually not shaped like a rectangle...it's almost like a gourd. skinny at the front, wider at the back. The longest (front to back) measures 75 feet. The width is about 47 feet. that's at the back end. The "skinny" part is right at the front, and stays skinny for 5 feet or so then widens drastically.

I took pics. Some of plants and saplings inside the fence. What do you think?


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## goathiker

That looks great. They will love living in there and the trees will keep the hawks from diving on your chickens.


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## montanadolphin

Do you see anything that I need to remove so the goats don't get sick? I know there are oak saplings in there, and a bunch of other plants I'm not sure about. I just don't want them getting anything that will make them sick!


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## goathiker

The trees are all white oaks...they are fine. I see Blueberry, Huckleberry, and what looks like Salal. The weed in pic 6 looks like one we have here that gets pink flowers on it. They never seem to bother most of that kind of stuff.
It looks like somebody was fattening pigs on the acorns so, there's not much left that hasn't been rooted up.

The main thing is to introduce them to all the saplings slowly. Start with an hour a day and increase the time a few minutes every couple of days.


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## montanadolphin

goathiker said:


> It looks like somebody was fattening pigs on the acorns so, there's not much left that hasn't been rooted up.


No, I think what you see is where I raked. Also, i was overturning logs and stuff...I let my chickens in there a few times when I first started letting them out of the run. I'd take them out to that area for an hour. I Used the rake to move leaves so I could overturn bugs.

Do you think I should go ahead and rake the whole thing? To get any acorns out of there? I know you said you saw all white oaks, but I have tons of Chestnut oaks around that area, so I'm sure there are chestnut oak saplings growing too. Should I just pull/cut all saplings out of there, since I can't identify the difference between the oaks?

I think I might do a video walkthrough of the area inside the fence. That might give you a better idea of what's in there. I'm so scared they'll eat something they are not supposed to!


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## montanadolphin

Ok, I did a walkthrough. All input appreciated! I think if you click the picture link it takes you to my photobucket to watch the video. Thanks for taking the time to watch!


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## goathiker

Okay, to clarify Chestnut Oaks are in the least hazardous family. They are a type of White oak and produce less tannins then other families. Red Oak leaf is pictured below. Many many goats are fattened on white oak acorns. The thing is that the trees drop them slowly at first so by the time they are really dropping the goats are used to eating them and they don't upset their stomachs. The shear number of them in your pen is going to be pretty big so you might want to rake while they are falling. Mainly so they don't get extremely over weight. They are not Horse Chestnut. The saplings are not a problem. They will eat them right up. 
Can you get me better pictures of the Maple tree? Top of leaf, bottom of leaf, bark and the stems? Also any shrubs that have waxy or shiny leaves or red on them? 
The amount of sun is fine. They will want the shade in the summer and in the winter when they want the sun, all the leaves will have dropped. I think they will be just fine in there.


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## montanadolphin

Ok, here are the leaves. I also included a tree that had somewhat shiny leaves.


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## goathiker

No problem. The Maple looks like Silver Maple and the other looks like Ash.


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## montanadolphin

goathiker said:


> No problem. The Maple looks like Silver Maple and the other looks like Ash.


Are those ok for the goats?


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## goathiker

These are fine. My place used to have nice big Ash trees on it. The goats killed them stripping the bark. Now they are a jungle gym for the babies to play on.


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## lottsagoats

My goats have gotten loose in the past and eaten my Azalea and Rhododendron bushes without so much as an upset stomach. I'm not sure how much is supposed to be toxic, but the late Azalea was a big bush before they killed it. I managed to rescue the Rhodies.


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## happybleats

Im just amazed on how many plant you have..I cant grow weeds if I tried lol...Make a safe haven yard away from anything poisonous and begin replacing the toxic plants with ones they can eat safely and have a huge plant sell...


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## montanadolphin

happybleats said:


> Im just amazed on how many plant you have..I cant grow weeds if I tried lol...Make a safe haven yard away from anything poisonous and begin replacing the toxic plants with ones they can eat safely and have a huge plant sell...


My goodness I think you read my mind! Just yesterday I was looking over my yard to see what needed to go...and I thought to myself "Hmmm, I wonder if I could sell all these off and make a few dollars so I can reinvest it in the babies" lol.


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## montanadolphin

lottsagoats said:


> My goats have gotten loose in the past and eaten my Azalea and Rhododendron bushes without so much as an upset stomach. I'm not sure how much is supposed to be toxic, but the late Azalea was a big bush before they killed it. I managed to rescue the Rhodies.


This actually makes me feel a lot better. Here I am thinking my babies take one bite of something toxic and they drop dead.


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## mlktrkdrvr

I noticed my does were eating milk weed last night in the horse pasture...? they all seem ok?


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## nchen7

montanadolphin said:


> This actually makes me feel a lot better. Here I am thinking my babies take one bite of something toxic and they drop dead.


usually that's not the case unless it's something SEVERLY toxic to them. I think I lost a goat from him eating some cacao leaves, but it seems like cacao (i.e. chocolate) is toxic to most domestic animals except for us!

my girls LOVE avocados, but they're on the poisonous list. they'll eat leaves, bark, semi-dried leaves. it gives me a heart attack and I try to keep them away from those trees, but as you know, goats don't care about that! they won't eat the dried leaves, which I think contain a lot of the toxin.

if it makes you feel better, I've read that b/c goats are browsers, they kind of pick a little at this, pick a little at that, and eat a lot of things they like. and somehow, they are able to remember when something gives them a belly ache, so they avoid it. some goats don't learn and just go for what's bad for them....so it really depends.... lol


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