# Boer - what's the difference?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I haven't really done any reading on boers even though that's what our buck is and our does are unregistered percentages <except for one fullblood and any doelings our other girls give us>.

What is the difference between a Codi Boer and the other types of Boer? I wasn't sure and wanted to ask. I believe I spelled that right? 
Thanks for any help, as I was just curious


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

" A little bit about CODI / PCI bloodlines and why we raise them:

What does CODI / PCI mean?

The name CODI / PCI represents the first 400 Boer goats imported directly into the United States from South Africa. Previously, the only Boer goats in the US came from embryo transplants from New Zealand's Landcorp Corporation into Canadian recip does. In 1994, exotic-animal importer Jurgen Schultz along with Norman Kohls, an American goat breeder and Tollie Jordaan, a South African breeder selected 400 of the best Boers South Africa had to offer and brought them to the US to quarantine in Lampasa, Texas. The name of Jurgen Schultz's import company was Camelids of Delaware, Inc (CODI) and the Pet Center International (PCI) was in charge of the customs and paperwork processing, thus the goats were dubbed CODI / PCI. After the quarantine period was over in 1996, Jurgan dispersed the herd. 

Most, if not all, of the original CODI/PCI goats are now deceased, and today it is very rare that you even find any pure CODI descendant lines. But they are out there, including here at Rowdy River. Some names you may recognize in your herd that were original CODI imports: ENNOBLED Kaptein, ENNOBLED Tsjaka, ENNOBLED Lobola (Pipeline's mother) and ENNOBLED 519. 


How do you tell if they are CODI / PCI?

Characteristics, for starters. ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS HAVE BEEN WITNESSED BY US AFTER YEARS OF COMPARISON BETWEEN OUR FULL CODI BOERS AND BOERS OF OTHER BLOODLINES!!!! 

CODI kids have more vigor at birth. CODI's mature more slowly, often not reaching full size until between 3 and 4 years of age. CODI's usually grow bigger and weigh more when full grown than Boers from other bloodlines. CODI bucks are more aggressive breeders and continue breeding at much older ages than other Boer bucks. CODI's are not "clean-fronted"...they have lots and lots of big front-end wrinkles and more skin overall.  CODI's are shorter-legged, longer-bodied, a little narrower, and more muscular. They are deeper-bodied, especially in the front end. CODI's have big heads with tight horn curl and thicker horn bases. They have massive bone and Clydesdale feet. Most CODI's are black pigmented under the tail. Most CODI does are better mothers. A lot of CODI's have 4 functional teats.

Your registration papers may tell you. The original live imports will have TX630... in the numbers. Their offspring born during quarantine start with TX631. South Africa Stud #994, 915, 914, and 911 are some of the sires and dams of the original imported CODI / PCI goats"
--http://www.rowdyriverranch.net/10.html


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for the info Katrina! I was told he is Codi, so he must be closely related to Codi and that's why she was calling him that. I have his pedigree I'll dig it out after I help my son with his homework and I'll post it here.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

That was an interesting read! I didn't know boers were that "new" in the US?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Tisie - I remember reading somewhere that boers were newer to the US, and for as popular as they are I thought they had been established here for a while. I love this site and all the info we get here


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for the great read Katrina!
Yes, Boers first came to US in the early/mid 90s.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I still remember in 4-H when we didn't have seperate meat and dairy goat classes. The year my nubian wether got Reserve Grand Champion wether I was beat by the first Boer wether to be shown at our fair. Its crazy to me how popular they are now. But I am glad they are because I love them. Thanks Katrina for the info I didn't know that either.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I was never involved in goats at all until we got our girls this past spring. 

I tried to scan my buck's pedigree in but I'll have to wait until I am using my desktop since my printer isn't programmed for scanning to my laptop...ugh...I miss my old printer/scanner!


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

I have a question too, I bought my herd through an Individual who had bought them from the livestock sale, tonight while looking at Doe #1 I flipped up her right ear and she is Tattooed, how can I find out if she was registered at one point, or who's herd she came out of? Im curious because if anyone can be registered I would like to as I am planning if money allows come late spring/early summer to invest in a Fullblood Boer Buck, and want to know if at least some of the kids could possibly be Purebloods, if not oh well then I go spend some more money and get does that are better anyhow.


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

what's her tattoo read? we need both ears.

i may be able to recognize the herd tat. if not you can call the registries and they'll look it up


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

Right ear was BKS6, It's a breeder in Dodge Center, MN...Left ear need Hubby to hold her still so I can try to read. Will get that in the morning.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

If you received no transfer paperwork when you bought the goat, then the goat is now considered unregistered; Although it may have at one time been a registered animal and have the necessary tattoos. You could try to track its pedigree down, which should be relatively easy if you can read both tattoos but you will never be able to receive the proper registration paperwork in your name. More than likely the goat was culled from a breeders herd and sold at auction. Once this happens, unless you can contact the original breeder, or the previous owner or the last person to hold paperwork on the goat, and come to an agreement with them, the doe will never be considered registered, even though it may be an FB/PB. 
Also depending on your states scrapie laws the original tattoo may have been changed instead of tagging the doe for transport/sale. In my state, Indiana, when I sell/cull older registered does I simply add some extra letters to the original tattoo to correspond to my scrapies ID, again instead of tagging. Once remarked and sold the doe can never be Re-registered without my signature on a transfer paper.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I know with dairy goats if the goat is tattooed and registered you just need to find the last owners and get the goats transfer records.

The doe isnt re-registered but TRANSFERRED into your name because she was never UNregistered in the first place just that her transfer to you was never completed. A goat can never be unregistered (at last in dairy goats) unless it comes up to have a fault and you contact the registries to tell them.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

If the physical owner of a goat is not the listed owner on the paperwork or any of its tattoos have been adjusted for sale, then that animal is considered Not Registered...Simply because of the discrepancy in the paperwork ie: the physical owner,the tattoos. This is one of the reasons shows require Original Registration Paperwork...to deter undocumented animal transfers and to insure the physical owner matches the documented owner, and all the information on the Original paperwork matches the information on the physical animal EXACTLY. If the new buyer can come to an agreement with the previously listed owner, on the Original paperwork, then the original owner would have to contact the registering agency with the ammendment. granted the original owner probably isn't going to do this for free....Basically if I sell a registered doe at a sale barn as a cull/market animal, I don't want you to then buy her, probably for less than she would have been worth as a registered doe, then breed her and use my genetics to better your herd, For Free....If you wanted that particular doe I probably would have sold her to you as a breeding animal BUT she was sold at auction, with the almost underlying assumption that she was going to slaughter, at least around here sale barn animals are terminal. Registering agencies are inplace to protect Breeders...JMO...touchy subject...getting something for nothing


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

We used to have a boer buck (I posted a picture of him on here a looonngg time ago lol) that was Codi/PCI. His father was Renoir's CODI*EN*. This buck was 400lbs at 3 years old! He was everything that was described in Katrina's post. He was gentle too, although he was a bottle baby. He threw us some pretty nice babies, but I agree, they did grow slower. We bought one of his doelings before we bought him and she grew slower and then picked up her paces at a year old, where she really started filling out.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I know with dairy goats if the goat is tattooed and registered you just need to find the last owners and get the goats transfer records.
> 
> The doe isnt re-registered but TRANSFERRED into your name because she was never UNregistered in the first place just that her transfer to you was never completed. A goat can never be unregistered (at last in dairy goats) unless it comes up to have a fault and you contact the registries to tell them.


I agree with Stacey here.... if the association... wasn't notified... by the last registered owner of the goat... that it was sold... as unregistered...died ect.....that animal .... is still on record ...with the last registered owner......it doesn't always mean... that the breeder... sold the animal as unregistered....it may be down the road... that someone decided ...not to sell the goat with papers.......the person that bought... the goat unregistered ..can then try to track down the last owner.....that had the goat in their name.....sometimes the goat.... can be sold many times unregistered ...and it is almost impossible... to track down the registered owner.....so... it may not happen... to find that owner....with the papers...... then... the person that holds title for that goat ...can sell to you... the registration.... if they still have them..... if they threw the registration away...and if the registered owner... is willing... and you pay them..... to have a duplicate of the registration mailed to the registered owner... by the association... the paperwork will be back.. in order... 
Breeders... by no means... give away a goat...........if a buyer....wants the registration papers ..they will have to pay.... the last registered owner for them.... no matter the cost....if they want the goat bad enough.... :wink:


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

Toth I am willing to pay. Like I said we are looking for a FB Boer Buck and I have a limit of $3000 so if I have to pay a $200 for the papers I will do it cause lets face it buying top of the line gets really spendy really fast, and we do have to have a few limits.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Toth I am willing to pay. Like I said we are looking for a FB Boer Buck and I have a limit of $3000 so if I have to pay a $200 for the papers I will do it cause lets face it buying top of the line gets really spendy really fast, and we do have to have a few limits.


 You got that right.... great way of thinking... :hi5: :thumb:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I dont know about others but when I sell a registered animal those transfer papers are included in the price.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I dont know about others but when I sell a registered animal those transfer papers are included in the price.


Hey nancy d .....we are talking about originally registered animals...... that someone bought... as unregistered ......and later wanted to track down the last registered owner....and pay the difference.. to get the registration papers.......this is an example: say ...that the registered animal... was originally $300.... but sold for $150 unregisterd....I as that last registered owner ......would want to be paid...$150 for that goat.... so I get the full registered Price for that goat.... hope that makes sense.... :wink: :greengrin:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yup I understand. The comment was more directed Newmomma :wink: Guess I should have quoted.


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

Nancy-D I also would sell Registered Goats w/their papers, but what I am doing is that


newmama30+ said:


> I bought my herd through an Individual who had bought them from the livestock sale, tonight while looking at Doe #1 I flipped up her right ear and she is Tattooed, how can I find out if she was registered at one point, or who's herd she came out of?


 didn't wana retype it. So thats why everyone is explaining about finding previous owners and transfering papers, 
@hoosier I wasn't trying to take your thread

Anyone who knows more about this can post on the how to find a breeder.


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

I had this on another thread but thought I might get some info...bought a buck with a tag in its ear...not sure about a tatoo...he's pretty skiddish. He was very unhealthy when I got him and I had to do lots of poking and prodding on him. Not really interested in any pedigree for breeding...my goats are just pets...i don't make any money...they just cost me money...but its just a fun hobby for me. Plus they earn their keep in the summer keeping the brush and weeds eaten away from my pond area!! I was just curious where he might have come from. The tag has TX then a series of numbers...would that mean Texas??


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

It's probably a scrapie tag

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/scrapie.html


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## newmama30+ (Oct 4, 2010)

@kflower Here is an example of a scrapies tag: MN=the state 21287=my farm ID# So if something came up with an animal, they know it came from me. I'll be honest it can take awhile but with alot of time and treats even some of my really skittish does have calmed down, then there are the two that run unless there is a bucket of grain involved. Im sure with time your buck will calm down especially if he is one of only a few goats. I try to handle our boys everyday, we had 2 bucklings last spring that I didn't get to spend a lot of time with and they were wild. But this years so far are real friendly, and my does are getting better about not running when I go in the pen. Good luck on finding out where he started out at.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

That sounds like a generic scrapies tag number, to me. Any goat that is a viable breeding animal is supposed to be identified when it leaves your property, for any reason. If the animal is registered then the Original Registeration paperwork, and with the matching tattoo on the goat, can replace a scrapies tag. If you have a registered herd your all your scrapies tags should have the first part of the series on letters/numbers that match your Registered herd ID. Example : all my tags start with INDBV...Indiana and my registered herd name DBV. Then the set of numbers correspond to the specific animal and are unique eg: INDBV 009 is/was the tag on one of our show animals last season. This would be an example of a more specific scrapies tag. Most often a goat tagged by your vet,your 4H club, a sale barn, or anyone else that doesn't have a registered herd name will have the generic appearance of the state, in your case TX, then a unique number whatever that might be. Example TX 1258, randomly. The goat was tagged in texas and its unique number is 1258. This will not help you track down it pedigree because the information on the tag belongs to the USDA/AHPIS/BOAH. If this animal would ever test positively for the disease then, and only then, the USDA would track the origin of the animal. In your case they would track the tag TX 1258, randomly, back to where it was tagged. This person/place/organization is supposed to have a record of when the animal was tagged and where it originated from...the breeder...That would be the USDA's next stop. 
The only other time you might see a non-tagged breeding animal is a registered animal that is being sold without registration paperwork, as I said earlier. this animal could have been re tattooed to conform to scrapie ID laws. Example from my farm: cull does are not usually tagged but rather restamped in their left ears with IN infront of my herd stamp, or whatever herd stamp they carry. Now their new scrapies ID would be: left ear IN DBV...right ear: whatever their kid number was X-Y-Z something depending on the year they were born and their rank. I simple record their tattoo numbers and they don't need to be scrapies tagged. It is the preferred approach by most breeders, at least around here, to prevent the inevitible situation similar to earlier posts in this thread. Once the paperwork doesn't match the goat the goat is not registered but considered a market animal...Similarly registered animals without the correct paperwork accompanying them are also considered market animals and should be properly tagged.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

very interesting stuff, although I have never been in this situation. We have one doe that is registerable, just need to get her scrapie tag # to my friend so her partner can draw up paperwork.
Our buck is 100%, and right now we're happy with our unregistered does because if they give us does, they will be registerable and the kids can show those does as percentage does and then whethers - 4-H.
There is a market here for unregistered stock anyway, seems more and more folks in this general area are getting into goats.

I don't think my buck is that closely related to a CODI? But I don't know?

His dam is by EGGSPORT and he is by TOP GUN NO.. 2 *AM EN* and dam is: EGGSPENSIVE *AM EN*

Sire is by HOPEWELL'S CAESAR and he is by HOPEWELL LITTLE BOSS MAN and dam is HOPEWELL'S PICK ME

Now for Hopewell's Little Boss man it shows his sire as bing GLA BOSS Man, and then the next generation shows no names just numbers for all goats in that generation, but GLA BOSS MAN' s dam it says: Ennobled Gold.

I need to scan it in....
I know that Caesar is deceased, he died over the summer  I never did get a chance to see him, but I heard he was a nice buck.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

The only goat you mentioned in his pedigree that is Codi is GLA BOSS Man. He was a great buck, would have loved to own an animal with him in their lines!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

GotmygoatMTJ said:


> The only goat you mentioned in his pedigree that is Codi is GLA BOSS Man. He was a great buck, would have loved to own an animal with him in their lines!


Thanks! I don't know anything about pedigree's in goats so none of the names were familiar to me. I think once I read somewhere that the 'EGG' lines were good?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I think once I read somewhere that the 'EGG' lines were good?


 Yes... EGGS....lines genetics... is very good.... :thumb:


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