# Belgium's first pack goat?



## Elliot (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi everybody. Time for a presentation! I am Britt, living near Leuven in Belgium and getting into packgoating. My hobbies have always involved the outdoors (hiking, bushcrafting, gardening, offroading...) and animals (horse riding and training, dog training, keeping all sorts of critters at home).

Several years ago, I kept a Saanen and a Nubian goat. I frankly disliked the Nubian. She was skittish, not friendly and broke all fences with her horns. After a couple of years and some incidents with the Nubian, I gave them both away.
Since, I have missed the Saanen (NOT the Nubian!).

I recently asked a friend of mine if she was planning to have kids next spring from her Dutch Milk Goats, in order to acquire a buck kid. She offered me instead one of her 2y does, who was not doing good in her small herd, even if she was born into the herd. So Malvina joined us last week (I called her Malvina after an excentric grand aunt of my mother, goats always make me think of excentric old aunts :mrgreen.

She is extremely good natured. I took her for an on leash walk in the woods the second day and all went extremely well. She took up following me all around the yard, bonding very quickly. So after a couple of days, I took her for off leash walks. And yesterday, we tried a dogs' soft pack on her, without any problem. She loves to spend time with us! My 2 smaller dogs (dachshund and parson russell) and Malvina are getting used to each other and start to play together. The larger dogs (Belgian Malinois and border collie) are OK with her on leash.

I incidently stumbled upon this forum and the phenomenon of pack goats... and it struck a cord immediately! I like being outside, trekking, wild camping... but I have always disliked carrying my gear (even if the weight is limited, 25 pounds). So a packgoat seems the perfect solution and Malvina seems to have it all to become a good packer!

Just one caveat. Like I said, goat packing or even walking a goat is really not known here in Belgium. We have a lot of legal restrictions on goat keeping and especially on transporting livestock. As far as I understand, as a private person, I am not allowed to transport any goat or sheep. They have to be transported by registred professionals, with registred special vehicles and legal documents, signed by a vet at any transport. I brought Malvina here in the back of my Landrover and planned to take her the same way on trips, but it is a risky business. We'll see how we can manage this.

Looking forward to reading all about your adventures on 'your side of the ocean' and to post some news on 'our side of the ocean' from time to time.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello,

welcome to this forum. I write from Germany and have friends that live in Belgium and pack with their pigmy goats. Haven't heard anything from them about restrictions for private persons. There have been changes when transporting lifestock for professional (!) reasons a few years back but private lifestock owners have been excluded.

If you want, contact her via her donkey packing site

http://esel.jimdo.com/


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## Elliot (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi Sabine,

Thank you very much for your useful answer! I am happy to have been mistaking on the transportation issue (misunderstood government sites) AND on the goat packing in Belgium issue!

I'll try to contact your friend. Thx again.


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Welcome to the PackGoat forums! I hope you were mistaken about transporting "livestock." Our goat buddies aren't livestock--they're pets! Get your goat an engraved collar with an ID tag dangling from it so she looks like a pet. She'll learn her name quickly and come when called. You can even teach goats to do tricks like a dog. All of my goats shake hands and dance and spin on command. Our old wether, Cuzco, does a few other tricks as well. And if you really don't want the authorities to know you are transporting a goat (just in case), get the windows on your Land Rover tinted.


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## Elliot (Nov 17, 2013)

Nanno, she allready has a collar with an ID tag, in case she spooks and runs off in the woods. My husband also said: just maintain that she is a dog and if the officer stopping you insists it is a goat, ask: 'are you a vet, then?'


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Howdy Elliot! Welcome  There is really only two ways to deal with it in your area. First, hide it  Second, promote it. Have any fairs or livestock events you could take your goat to with her pack on and just start spreading the word. Most will think you are nuts (new things often get that kinda reaction) but even if you can talk just a few people into maybe trying it, then maybe then can and so on.


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

I ponder the concern of transporting livestock. It would have to be from people who fear the spread of live stock disease. It sounds like the program we deal with about Vet health certificates for our goats when crossing state lines. The certificate cost money and is only good for 30 days. Didn't we all have a scare a couple of years ago about a program that was going to require a national livestock animal identification? This program was going to make it difficult to move livestock off our own property. Did this program died out?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

no, the new regulations - came in effect in 2009 - adresses the humane (more humane) transport of livestock for professional reasons: slaughter, sale, fairs, etc.

EVERY professional livestock owner AND transporter - professional is defined by making money with raising/keeping livestock or transporting it - has to adhere to this new law:

- transports under 65 km (approx. 40 miles) - no changes to previous law
- transports over 65km AND professional transport - certificate of expert knowledge for all people attending the transport (classes are held several times a year and are open for everyone who pays the fee)
- transports over 65km AND professional transport - transport and transport vehicle has to adhere to standard about height, box dimensions, water availability, rest stops, feed, management in extreme temperatures, air conditioning, etc.

- every transport made by a private owner is not covered by this law.

Another thing that is in effect is a transport paper where one records name of transporter, name of seller and buyer, number and ID-tags of the transported animals.
This you need if you transport livestock out of your farm to another farm, clinic, fair, etc. but NOT when you just take a hike and return the same day with your goat. And I've spoken intensively with state vets in Germany about how to manage this for packgoats when on longer hikes as you often don't know where you will find a place for the night. The consensus was that nobody knew how to solve this and that best one would just hike and take care to not endanger other livestock = keep your goat with you and don't let it wander.

@Britt: should you promote your goatpacking and start taking money this would make you a professional livestock owner.


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## Elliot (Nov 17, 2013)

Indeed, my vet told me just now that nobody really knows how to deal with small private transports (for example taking a doe to the buck) or hiking with goats. He gave the advice to just have her ID tags inserted in the ears and said all will be OK. And he is pretty sure that IF there's a problem with the law, they will NOT confiscate my goat (which is the most important of course). 

Sabine, starting a goat hiking business might be a good idea


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## Elliot (Nov 17, 2013)

Dave said:


> Howdy Elliot! Welcome  There is really only two ways to deal with it in your area. First, hide it  Second, promote it. Have any fairs or livestock events you could take your goat to with her pack on and just start spreading the word. Most will think you are nuts (new things often get that kinda reaction) but even if you can talk just a few people into maybe trying it, then maybe then can and so on.


Indeed, Dave. When I meet people out in the woods, they seem to think that I'm crazy walking a goat. I wanted to take her on a walk to the baker's shop in the village today, but I'm not completely ready yet to out us as packing mates 

Not to speak of the 'presents' Malvina tends to drop when she is stressed. I'm sure she will do this in front of the shop...


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