# Keeping a buck with does full-time, anyone?



## FullMoonFarm-Ky

I am new and slowly building my herd up - up to 9 does and 1 buck (all boers) - and already, keeping up with breeding is becoming a pain. I spend a lot of time with my goats daily, but looking for signs of heat, segregating them, feeding separate, etc has become a hassle. Furthermore, for the ones that haven't showed signs of heat, I find myself worrying if they are a silent heat type, and thus I worry about missing the opportunity to breed them as quickly as it can be done (in a healthy manner of course). And then obviously you are paying to keep up an animal that is not making you any money. 

So... instead of messing with the hassle of keeping your buck separate and rotating girls in, does anyone let their buck run with the mature girls, full-time? Obviously the drawback is not knowing the exact kidding date, but I think the signs of being close to kidding is easier to detect, and also a better time to segregate due to diet and meds to prepare for kidding. 

Anyone want to chime in, rather in agreement or disagreement. Curious what everyone has to say...


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## SalteyLove

I have a similar sized herd as you. I house my buck (sometimes 2) separate but near the does. Then beginning in October I will run 2-3 does with him for 3 weeks at a time. I keep careful notes on when they were exposed and also who he is following from day to day or any discharge etc. that may indicate breeding. 
I agree that the signs of kidding are easier to detect than detecting heat in some does. I also work full time so this is what works for me.
Also - I don't keep does who are bad mothers. I know this doesn't preclude possible kidding complications, but in general, my does do just fine if I'm not there the very second they kid.
Have you considered using a marking harness?


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## Chadwick

I think in nature the bucks would segregate themselves from the doe herd, like deer, so farming practices have evolved to mimic this, but I am interested to hear what experienced people say!


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## happybleats

I keep my bucks in their own pen...as you stated the draw back is you dont know when your doe is due...but if you run him with them for two months then at least you know the months they could kid and keep watch for pending signs..

however some bucks are aggressive with the ladies , bred or not will pester, stress and even hurt them..feeding time could be an issues as well if he is a grain hog...


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## ryder225912

We used to run our first buck with the girls. It was perfect. They even kidded with him around and never had an issue. Not knowing exact kidding dates never really presented a huge problem as we kept a pretty good eye on the girls. We later sold him and brought in a new buck and that was the end of the idealistic idea of them all running together. This buck harassed the does constantly and was just a brute to them and the kids. 

In hindsight, our first buck was not normal. He didn't breed a single doe until he was two, he never smelled and never acted bucky, aggressive or otherwise indicative of the fact that he was a buck and not just a pet wether. 

We now keep our bucks penned separate from the girls, but nearby. This year we will be making separate penning on the other side of the property for them. We will run the buck we want to use with the does we want for two months and record down any signs of his being particularly interested in one if we see it. 


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## MsScamp

My bucks are housed separate from the does. When it's time to breed the does, I put one buck in with whichever bunch of does I want to breed, and leave him there for 2 months (usually). When the 2 months are up, I either put him back in his pen or move him in with the next bunch to be bred.


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## kccjer

We use to run our buck with our does full time. Never had a problem with him being mean either. But, I'm telling you....that not knowing at all when the due date is....it's for the birds. I will never do that again. I once kept a doe in the kidding pen for 4 months before she actually kidded! She was HUGE and had an udder and looked ready to pop any day....4 months. I've had a buck in with does for a month at a time. I don't really like doing only a month either because I had a couple that didn't get bred. But....I only have a month to worry about kidding. I'm even going to get a buck bag this year and use it so I have an even better idea about kidding time. It's no fun to keep watching and waiting and wondering. It will get old fast and you'll regret it.


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## packhillboers

Our first year, we had put the buck in with all 5 Does and let them all run together. This was easy enough and he was quite happy. However, it was more difficult to tell when they were all bred. As I was sure they were all bred, we had to certainly separate the buck out as he was a food bully and decided that he would not let his does eat until he first had eaten his share. This may work in large open acres on a large more natural herd, but in our little domesticated 6 acres, it was not working for us. It is so nice to have the buck in his own pen and to be able to know when the Does will be due. Also- a buck can get pushy and shouldnt be kept in with the Does that are pregnant so I feel it is always best to separate them soon after they have all been bred. Most bucks as they grow are going to need an electric fence in order to control them. They will try all sorts of ways to get back in with the herd. One of our bucks pushed his spool over to the fence and decided that he would use it in order to jump over fence and the hot wire. Thankfully he never got the nerve with the hot wire there.


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## giddysmom

I've been wondering about this myself so great to see this thread! I have Dairy goats, 2 mature 2 kids. I have bottle raised and disbudded a buck kid. His mother my favorite died of complications . They are all registered. He is very good looking and from good lines. He is not related to the mature does and shares father with the 2 doe kids I am keeping. I have them on 1/2 acre in my back yard where I see them ALL the time. The past two years only 1 of 3 does got pregnant at a time  at the bucks farm. This is very frustrating as they were there for several weeks in fall. My goat mentor and breeder thinks I should keep him and let him stay with the herd as a buck. What do you all think? Thanks


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## russellp

My buck has been with his 13 mature does 24/7 for 3 years. We kid between February 1 and March 10 every year. The buck has a very definitive rut, no doubt when it starts and he cleans up quickly when it's over. He is always around them and they travel as a single group around the 20 acres. I have never had any problem with predation, and we know beyond doubt that predators are all around. He is a 3 year 4 month old Saanen with 32" horns and weighs 320 lbs when not in rut. His does were all chosen based on 3 factors, size, mothering skills ( or from good mothers ) and parasite resistance. It has worked out very good for us. I moved him out for a few hours to trim hooves and didn't want him rubbing his beard on me. The does stood and screamed till I brought him back over. He is very gentle and loving with humans, but me and my boys witnessed him kill a stray dog that was just passing through the lower pasture. He ran to it, it turned, in shock I think, and he rolled it repeatedly and mashed the poor dog into the ground. In his defense there were week old kids present.




















These pics are the good times, this is during rut........








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## OGYC_Laura

I run my bucks with my does and have not really had any issues with it. However I do separate the does into the birthing area when they start to bag up or look close. I have three herds at any given time and I just move the buck to which ever herd that does not have little ones or late gestation. Each herd generally kids with in a few weeks of eachother, so when the first kid hits the ground I know the fun is about to begin.

I tried separating the bucks from all females for a month one time. Big Boy tore up my fence and nearly hung himself. So I just find him a group of does he can run with until kidding time and then move them to another group. When I am ready for the girls to breed or I see several showing signs of heat I will move one of the bucks to that herd and give him a month. Then I move the other two over with them. It really sounds more difficult than it is . It works for me and my fences are not getting tore up.


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## janeen128

russellp said:


> My buck has been with his 13 mature does 24/7 for 3 years. We kid between February 1 and March 10 every year. The buck has a very definitive rut, no doubt when it starts and he cleans up quickly when it's over. He is always around them and they travel as a single group around the 20 acres. I have never had any problem with predation, and we know beyond doubt that predators are all around. He is a 3 year 4 month old Saanen with 32" horns and weighs 320 lbs when not in rut. His does were all chosen based on 3 factors, size, mothering skills ( or from good mothers ) and parasite resistance. It has worked out very good for us. I moved him out for a few hours to trim hooves and didn't want him rubbing his beard on me. The does stood and screamed till I brought him back over. He is very gentle and loving with humans, but me and my boys witnessed him kill a stray dog that was just passing through the lower pasture. He ran to it, it turned, in shock I think, and he rolled it repeatedly and mashed the poor dog into the ground. In his defense there were week old kids present.
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> These pics are the good times, this is during rut........
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> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Wow.. He is massive soooo cool!


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## Jessica84

I didn't read threw all the replies so sorry if this is a repeat  I did when I only had 1 buck ran them together all year long. If you check their back side morning and night for 'messy' butts its pretty easy to see why they got bred. If your home most of the time like me you can hear when the deed is done lol. I still plan to basically have the bucks with the does during months that I want them to get bred on. I don't know if you plan to keep them together all year long but if you do I have never had a issue with a buck breeding a doe and making them abort. The only time the buck doesn't mind their manners is right after the doe kids so I keep her away from him for 4 or 5 months. When you put the does in with the buck he might be super excited and kinda drive them up the wall the first day but he will figure out the ladies are not going to put up with that lol. If you for sure want a due date you could always get a breeding harness. Just watch the bucks armpit area because they do start to rub around a month of wearing them.


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## janeen128

I'm have a mixture of goats at the moment, some are year around breeders.. I'm going to be making some buck aprons this next week, because kidding season is over, and they like being together... We'll see how it goes;-) I do separate them when kidding season arrives and about 2 weeks after the last doe kids out....


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## giddysmom

If I let my buck, who has been raised in the herd, stay with my girls, do I need to take him out when babies are born? I have alpines so they are seasonal breeders. Is there a possibility he could breed his daughters when they are too young before I've sold them? My husband really wants to keep him and keep him in the pasture with the girls but I don't know...


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## janeen128

giddysmom said:


> If I let my buck, who has been raised in the herd, stay with my girls, do I need to take him out when babies are born? I have alpines so they are seasonal breeders. Is there a possibility he could breed his daughters when they are too young before I've sold them? My husband really wants to keep him and keep him in the pasture with the girls but I don't know...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


It is best to separate for awhile. Since Alpines are seasonal breeders, I doubt he would breed the doelings, but another reason why I separate is because sometimes after birth the buck thinks the doe is in heat again and will try to mount her. My opinion, but she's gone through enough stress, and therefore separating for about a month to a month and a half is a good idea;-)


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## Chesawmomma

My buck runs with the herd all the time.I have a new one who was born here and was a bottle baby. I am now down to only one doe, the buck and a whether. 

This year the three does I had kidded in Feb. it was way too cold and I lost 5 of the 7 kids. I have since sold two does. 

Anyway, my buck will run with my doe and whether until late Aug/Early Sept depending when he goes into rut. I do NOT want Feb babies again, so he has to take a break for a few months until Oct. That way kids won't be born until April or later. Of course when I get my real barn set up he can be with them all the time again.

The other buck I had, who was 5 years old stayed with the herd even during kidding. If I see a doe birthing, I separate her during the birthing. Once kids are up and nursing, I open the gate again. That buck never bothered her. I usually keep the doe and kids locked up in the pen for several days before letting them out to browse with the herd tho. I want the kids strong and healthy first. I will have to see this bucks reaction to the kids and such before I decide whether to let him in the pen with them or not.


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## janeen128

For April babies you need to breed in November;-)


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## giddysmom

So many knowledgeable people on here! Sounds like letting the lil Bucky kid stay might work. Has anyone noticed a " Bucky" taste to thier milk? I milk in a separate building from thier sleeping area. But the milking bldg is in the enclosure about 200 ft away. I don't want to ruin a great thing. 


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## janeen128

giddysmom said:


> So many knowledgeable people on here! Sounds like letting the lil Bucky kid stay might work. Has anyone noticed a " Bucky" taste to thier milk? I milk in a separate building from thier sleeping area. But the milking bldg is in the enclosure about 200 ft away. I don't want to ruin a great thing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


I've never had a problem with it. I make sure though that I was my hands and udder really well though, and make sure my milk is covered etc...


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## SlapHappy

packhillboers said:


> Our first year, we had put the buck in with all 5 Does and let them all run together. This was easy enough and he was quite happy. However, it was more difficult to tell when they were all bred. As I was sure they were all bred, we had to certainly separate the buck out as he was a food bully and decided that he would not let his does eat until he first had eaten his share. This may work in large open acres on a large more natural herd, but in our little domesticated 6 acres, it was not working for us. It is so nice to have the buck in his own pen and to be able to know when the Does will be due. Also- a buck can get pushy and shouldnt be kept in with the Does that are pregnant so I feel it is always best to separate them soon after they have all been bred. Most bucks as they grow are going to need an electric fence in order to control them. They will try all sorts of ways to get back in with the herd.  One of our bucks pushed his spool over to the fence and decided that he would use it in order to jump over fence and the hot wire. Thankfully he never got the nerve with the hot wire there.


Wow. :ROFL:


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## HoosierShadow

We have a small herd too, the first 2 bucks we owned, we kept for a year or more each. We didn't have an issue with them, they were good boys, didn't harass the does, they were part of the herd, no segregating of any sort, the girls followed the lead of the buck most of the time.

I think there are lots of pros and cons of keeping them all together, I guess it depends on your buck.

Personally, I don't want to let a buck run with the does year round. Biggest thing I noticed is nursing, or not, when the buck was with them, they seemed to lose weight or just not look as good as they could have looked. Also, the buck would bully the does out of the grain. We've also had a buck try to go after a goat, and accidentally slammed a young, pregnant doe who was 4mo along, and she aborted days later.

Biggest issue is not knowing kidding dates for your does. At least if you have the buck in there with certain does on certain days you have a ball park of when they are going to kid and know when to watch them. I like to be there for every kidding, so I know how easy/hard it was for the doe, any complications they may need help with, etc. So I don't want to be waiting for a month thinking they are due


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## SMB_GoatHerd

I have 7 does who kidded a month ago. We borrowed a buck from my cousin and we let him run with the does for about a month and a half... I worked because all of my does went into heat at the same time, and they all kidded within 4 days of each other. I thought that was good, but the downside was that we had our does in their kidding pens for about 3 weeks before they kidded. They're still in the barn now, but they roam freely in their pen with all the kids and other does. I expect to do this again, but maybe this year, with a buck marker or something...


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## Juperlative

I have a herd of Boer goats, and a few dairy girls. I actually ran both the nubian buck, and the boer buck with my herd of about 40 ladies, on 100 acres. We had just moved onto this property, and barbed wire fences here were not holding anyone. We keep a close eye on things. there were enough ladies that that the bucks didnt fight (actually they were fast friends before, during, and after) the dairy girls were intimidated by the size of the boer buck, and preferred the nubian. The big boer girls, really preferred the massive boer buck. We kidded dec-feb, and only 1 dairy doe had 1/2 boer kids....otherwise, all went as it should.

This sounds stupid, but I swear my Boer buck could tell if the doe was for him, or the other buck. If it was dairy, the nubian got it. If it had a red head, my boer buck took it. 

We are not doing things that way this year, but it worked gloriously and the herd was very happy. The bucks did fine with the kids, and each other. A coyote attack was averted by the bucks, and oh, I forgot to mention my ram and sheep herd were out there too. So what should have been chaos, was a beautiful example of herd harmony, given enough space, ladies, and supervision...everyone just broke off into appropriate herds. 

The Nubians are gone now, and our boer herd is much more valuable this year...paperwork and genetics need to be accurate, so we unfortunately cannot do it that way....but it did work!


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## fishin816

I would *NEVER* run my bucks and does together full time. BUT.... It is feasible for me to watch their heat cycles and put them on dinner dates. So I don't know what to say on your part, but IMO I would never let them run together.


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## COgoatLover25

I'm gonna have to agree with Cade, I think it is a very bad idea . You don't know when your does will have their kids and you risk losing your kids and possibly the doe when your buck is harassing her when she's having her babies. When a doe's body starts to produce hormones for kidding the buck's senses get these hormones mixed up with the hormones that say " Hey, I'm ready to be bred " causing him to try to breed her CONSTANTLY! Did I say it was a bad idea ???


Home to Reg. Nubians, Nigerians, and meat goats.


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## lottsagoats

At one time I did run my buck with the does year round. However, those were dairy animals with seasonal heats. Boers will cycle year round. The most times bred, as suggested by the professionals, is 3 kiddings every 2 years. With the buck running with the does, you will get 4+ kiddings in that time frame and it will quickly run down your does. The litter size will be less and your kid mortality rate will climb.

Because I have 2 breeds and 2 bucks, my bucks are spearated form the does now. Their pen is right next to the does, though, and share a fenceline. The bucks make sure I know when the girls are in heat, if the girls don't beat them to it.

I have had dairy goats for 30+ years. I added Boers to the herd a few years ago and suddenly my seasonal breeders became anytime breeders! My does that kidded in March were suddenly coming in heat in April! I had a second kidding season in September with the dairy girls. Made a mess of my plans and I made sure I kept the bucks away from the does after that! Even after I got rid of the Boers, those silly girls kept their year round heats going until I lost them all in a fire.


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## SlapHappy

If separating the buck;is is advisable to pair him w/ a wether for companionship or is he ok by himself? I would spend lots of time with him.


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## janeen128

SlapHappy said:


> If separating the buck;is is advisable to pair him w/ a wether for companionship or is he ok by himself? I would spend lots of time with him.


Pairing him up with a wether buddy is best. Even though you would spend time with him, you can't be there 24/7 and a goat needs another goat buddy...;-)


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## NyGoatMom

I would get a wether buddy. Realistically you cannot be with him all the time.


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## russellp

You might change your mind about "spending lots of time" with him once rut is in full swing and you get a whiff of him. 


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## Chesawmomma

When I first bought my buck he ran with the girls as they were dairy..one Saanen, one Sanubian. Well the buck came here in April and I thought that dairy goats were seasonal and would not come in heat in April. wrong! They had kids in Sept of that year. So, if you want to know when your does are due to kid, keep the buck separate until you want to breed them!

My buck will be allowed to run with the girls most of the time. I will separate him Aug-Oct as I do not ever want Feb kids again!


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