# Important kidding question need answers today



## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

So my friends doe started labor yesterday early morning she is 2yo ff likely twins. She has the long goo string, has been licking the wall head pressing in the corner back arched tail droppy ligaments were gone then came back, bag full but not hard-full etc (owner thinks she started early labor the day before (Monday) because she was acting weird no appetite and acting odd but didn't think too much of it) ok so now we are day 148 today we are absolutely sure of the day no doubts! Rewind a bit.. yesterday at 10:45 the doe started pushing she said she pushed 6-7 times over 30mins and saw a water bubble Then she stopped. So at 12:30 I said she may need to be checked because they don't just stop pushing. I went over checked her no baby in the canal but cervix is open. we can feel baby movement and doe is not in distress. She does have a mild uterine prolapse while laying down and does go back in upon standing so we are now still waiting 24-36+ hours later. What's the next step here just wait? Any suggestions appreciated thanks!


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Don't know, but someone will! Just posted as well in delivery questions on worming post delivery

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/worming-after-doe-ewe-kid-lamb-192897/

Good luck, we will watch wait and hope for healthy twins!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

It might just be pre labor. Is she eating ok?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Oh my. You need to go in there immediately and start pulling kids out. Someone is stuck! After this much time, expect the worst but still hope for the best. Even if the first kid is not alive the second one may be. Clip your fingernails short, disinfect, and get some lube because the birth canal is probably very dry by now. Best of luck to you, to the doe, and to her kids. I hope they're still ok.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree get in there. She will not live unless the kids come out


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If the cervix is open then it's not pre-labor. There's a kid presented incorrectly and not making it into the birth canal. Could be breech, could be head back, head down, etc. The doe needs help ASAP.


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Ok I'm good with pulling it it's odd she is not distressed kid IS alive though and not in the birth canal. She still has discharge and literally acting good been eating grazing...I've been at a loss I don't like to jump to intervention


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If there is a malposition, they won't be in distress. Hopefully the cervix is still open and you can get the kids out. With her being in labor yesterday, you may have a big problem on your hands today. Be ready to call the vet. This is now an emergency.


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Antibiotic course for mom? Tylan? 7days?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd do at least 10 days of penicillin.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Sometimes if the kid is very badly positioned it won't put pressure on the cervix to tell the doe to push or be in distress. Definitely get in and get those kids out. 
After pulling kids I check the doe's temperature twice a day for the next 3-5 days, but don't give antibiotics unless she gets a fever. I don't like contributing to antibiotic resistance. The only time I give antibiotics immediately is if there is a rotten kid or placenta.


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

Yes go in!!!!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

You may have to go farther back - I had one with the first kid transverse in the pelvis. The doe acted absolutely fine, much like this one. If you feel this is beyond you, definitely call a vet.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

How are things? If there was goo, and a bubble, you need to get the kids out.

We had a doe do something similar this year, contractions, goo, bubble then nothing. We gave her 30 minutes and went in. Our doe was completely calm the whole time. My long armed husband had to get up to his elbow to rework the kid. He thinks it was presenting back first but is not sure. He got the head and a leg and out it came. Two more followed on their own.

There is no way any of the three would have come out without assistance getting that first one out. We didn't give antibiotics either, but it is different for each case.

I hope things turn out okay.


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Well confusing situation here. Owner is not 100% that what she saw was a water bubble and could have been the prolapse cause she didn't know she had one. And doe could have been a bit of a drama queen yesterday? and the goo was just some mucus? Another question does a FF have a pelvic ring? Feels almost like a thick rubber band and sort of squeezes u? Or can the cervix do this? The location of this 'ring' is past the pelvic bones almost a full hand in. On the other side of his 'ring' the space becomes bigger and then gets to baby. At this point it's approx 4" past my wrist. Baby feels like a good upward position felt a foot move as well. It did feel a bit of a wall between me and baby but did not want to poke around much so is the cervix that far in? I dont remembered it being that far -but it's been awhile. So with the variables and owner not being 100% and both of us questioning 'true labor' at this point We decided not to take the baby out and to rethink the situation. Mom baby both alive and well I figured we have a little time to plan best course of action. Now we have no problem manually delivering baby I'm fine with finding legs and nose or even repositioning without tearing anything apart that part I'm comfortable with. But we are not sold that it's time-right this moment- so...that being said is there anything I've mentioned that would still say yes absolutely take it out? I swear I must sound like a looney tune right now but I've never been more torn on an intervention than right now.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I had that happen on the last of a triplet. I could bump and feel it but she would not push. I went in and felt the placenta so was kinda confused and bumped again and was sure there was a kid. Went WAY in, crossed my fingers I was right on feeling the placenta i wasn't ripping her uterus out and got it and half of one placenta and then a second came later. Weird things go on with goats and for some reason this year just seemed to be across the board weird and bad for a lot of people. 
I really do hope she just had a false pregnancy. 
I do agree with the antibiotics on not giving unless, well goat hiker said it best, if something makes me go eww then I give it but if there are kids still in there this is probably going to be a eww situation


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## JK_Farms (Nov 12, 2016)

I've never had to go in so I'm not sure but am interested in what others have to say


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Yes, that "rubber band" you are feeling is the cervix. It sounds like she's not quite dilated. Hard to tell what's hanging from that doe in the picture, but it looks like the "goo" that indicates her water has broken. Since it's been several hours, you should really start pulling that kid out. You'll have to go slow because she's not fully dilated, but if she's actually been in labor this long, she may not dilate any more than she currently is.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

The "wall" between you and the kid-is it very thin? It's seems like it is if you can feel movement and a hoof on the other side. It is probably the sac that the kid is in, and can be broken if you decide you need to help the kid.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

With this starting yesterday, she may be closing. Sounds like a vet may be in order if no one is sure.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok the hoofs are more up when you go in? Any chance that she actually has poop right there? I mean is it that far up? Sounds stupid and laugh if you want but I swore once I felt a hold and when my mom went in she was able to tell his was actually her poop that was getting ready to come out. 
I don't know I'm kinda confused on it as well. I'm thinking at this point if her water did break a vet is going to be needed but since your not sure if she is really ready I might be tempted to just keep a super close eye on her. And I mean close! I would be checking her every few hours for her seeming off at all or any bad smell coming from her and get a vet ASAP. I've sadly only ever had one retained kid before and the doe was dead before 24 hours was up.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

My worry on this scenario is the head pushing the wall. Every time my goats kid they do that shortly befor the kid pops out. I fear the outcome on this if it goes on.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Praying for you and your goat.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

At this point, I think it is time for a vet...

If only to let YOU know what is happening.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> At this point, I think it is time for a vet...
> 
> If only to let YOU know what is happening.


I agree! It might be a waste of money or it might be the best money ever spent


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, seek a vet.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

How is she??


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Just checking in. 

Any news?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Any update??


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Hey y'all sorry I haven't responded but I really didn't want to catch any backlash So after a bunch of deliberation I decided not to intervene. I wasn't sold on if she was in fact in labor. The owner is brand spanking new and I think the 'water bag' that she saw was actually a prolapse. And 'pushing' ehh more like just an uncomfortable day and was being dramatic. I think the new things she was doing like licking the wall and everything was uncomfortable maybe some early kinda labor stuff?? Anyway She was not strutted at all and ligs firm. So...I decided to wait....owner agreed and so we waited and waited ..and.....waited. When finally....yesterday day 153 she bagged up and went into labor!!!! Oh hallelujah!! I only helped a little with the first one who had a leg crammed in with his head making it a bit tight pulled the leg forward and gave enough room for the head very pretty buckling looks a whole lot like his dad (I own the buck) then right behind him and I mean nose to tail a pretty doeling. Both very healthy active and thriving!! Phewwwww! So glad that is over. Moral of the story here...trust your gut!!!


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

So happy to hear that!!:fireworks:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad it went well!


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Phew! Great work! I believe in the gut!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I'm glad it turned out great! I was worried when I didn't hear anything. Ultimately, it's up to whoever is there in person to make the call because it's hard to know what's going on when details are online. I'm glad you went with your gut and just waited.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Awesome! I'm glad it was a prolapse and not an open cervix after all. Congrats on healthy little babies!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Adorable, congrats, glad all is well.


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## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

Good! Glad you were able to sort it out and make the "gut" call.

Congrats on the cuties!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Congrats! Glad it all worked out


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Sooo glad everything went well. Cute babies.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Glad to hear all went well!!!!


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## srfotog (Sep 11, 2014)

Boy, that's a relief. I spent over a hundred dollars finding out the same thing. The vet said she had been stressed by all the people. As soon as he knocked her out to do a c-section, they popped out. All three were fine. But I didn't have a gut feeling everything was ok, either, lol.


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## goatlady1 (Jul 22, 2013)

sandhillfarm said:


> So my friends doe started labor yesterday early morning she is 2yo ff likely twins. She has the long goo string, has been licking the wall head pressing in the corner back arched tail droppy ligaments were gone then came back, bag full but not hard-full etc (owner thinks she started early labor the day before (Monday) because she was acting weird no appetite and acting odd but didn't think too much of it) ok so now we are day 148 today we are absolutely sure of the day no doubts! Rewind a bit.. yesterday at 10:45 the doe started pushing she said she pushed 6-7 times over 30mins and saw a water bubble Then she stopped. So at 12:30 I said she may need to be checked because they don't just stop pushing. I went over checked her no baby in the canal but cervix is open. we can feel baby movement and doe is not in distress. She does have a mild uterine prolapse while laying down and does go back in upon standing so we are now still waiting 24-36+ hours later. What's the next step here just wait? Any suggestions appreciated thanks!


If a doe is pushing with a bubble present and nothing to show more than that after 20 minutes, I wash up and go in - most likely the first kid is breech and that can cause issues for both the first kid and second - do not wait any longer. Hoping you can do this. Also, re the "mild" uterine prolapse that is another issue that also warrants you going in and retrieving the kids. Please let me know ASAP if you need instructions about retrieval.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

^please read the updates rather than just the original post. It was a false alarm and the doe has kidded just fine


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You are very correct on your guess with the pushing and the prolapse. Sometimes they will push when they have one which can make the prolapse worse. But anyways you did great! I'm happy it all went well!!!


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## GloryJaz (Aug 18, 2016)

Well a bit late but sounds like she's nearing second stage labor. There are 3 stages. Perhaps she's just urinating due to kids pushing on her bladder. As one of my does did here recently!! Gross but understandable. If you see a dark brown sac hanging from a stringy thingy and nothing happens after about 20-25 minutes .....MOST DEFNATELY GO IN AND HELP HER! (You have about 45 minutes to safely deliver but do not wait this long if possible) When the first amniotic sac is present,a kid should be not far behind. When moms pushing and no kid is coming out,there's a problem. You have about an hour to safely deliver. Nails cut,rings removed,watches or any jewelry,hands and arms disinfected and you may wear gloves and/or lube but not necessary. Having someone hold mom's horns,you would enter her vagina slowly with your thumb and pointer finger. Gently opening up a bit as you enter her. Kids front or hind legs may be felt after entering but not always. I've had to go in up to my bicep. Do not just pull. If the kid is positioned correctly,you'll feel front hooves. Inch a leg one at a time gently shifting the shoulders. Be gentle when you get to the kids head as this is the biggest part. Pull only when mom pushes. Work together with her. She'll work with you. Once kid is delivered, mom should want to clean their face off. But seeing as she's already tired you will need to assist her in this. Making sure the airways are clear of mucus. Once kid is breathing,go in and feel for more. My last kidding I had to deliver three kids and give mouth to mouth to two. If the kid is not breathing,gently and slowly blow into their mouth. Not hard,as you could rupture their lungs. Usually a couple of these gets the lungs going and they'll start to clear out any fluids that might've entered while delivering. I had two that had the amniotic sac bust in their face. If your kids are dead,I'm very sorry. As this is extremely possible the longer you wait to intervene. But mom is the main concern at this point. If she presents a fever,she'll need antibiotics and plenty of fluids.

Please ask any questions you've got! And if this was not a successful kidding,please do not blame yourself or give up. We all must learn as we go. I commend you for reaching out.

God bless,
Glory


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## GloryJaz (Aug 18, 2016)

OMG I just read the latest post!! Yay!! I'm thrilled for you darling!! Well,keep all of this great advice in mind just in case you do have this happen. I had to deliver twins last year and 3 kids just a month ago. All 9 of this last kidding are thriving!! If you need anything please feel free to ask me! I'm proud of you for seeking advice and so do happy for you and mama!! Pics please!!

God bless,
Glory xo


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## GloryJaz (Aug 18, 2016)

sandhillfarm said:


> Antibiotic course for mom? Tylan? 7days?


I use LA 200.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad all is OK.

Yes, LA200 or BioMycin, which burns less.


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