# Goat minerals



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Hey everyone,

I have a few questions about the minerals goats require. I just got goats last October and the minerals they need seems to be complicated to me... 

Why do goats need a copper pill injected via a bolus or a copper pill crammed down their throat via injected with a syringe mixed with water every six months? 

Is there a way to ovoid this painful experience for the goat? I don't like doing it... 

Why isn't the copper and selenium I give them with their goat mana pro enough? 

If I mix the goat mana pro mineral in their grain with corn oil and make sure they eat it daily isn't that enough to avoid the copper pill bolus every six months?

Also how many more minerals besides copper and selenium do they need? 

Also I heard that goats need a "BOSE" selenium supplement how do I give them that?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

It all depends on your area. You might need to give copper more or less often than every 6 months, you might not need to give extra selenium. 

You can open up the copper bolus capsules and pour it on grain, disguise it in a treat, or whatever else to get them to eat it. 

The loose minerals might not have enough to provide what they need. The minerals don't have very high copper or selenium contents because what is the right amount for your goats might be toxic to goats in other areas.

BoSe is vet rx, you might need it and you might not. I would start with selenium/e gel and go from there.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If your area is deficient, as mine is, then an across-the-board mineral mix is not going to be adequate. These companies have to make minerals that are safe for animals all over the place The same mineral CANNOT be sufficient for you, and safe for someone else who does not have the same deficient land as you do.

Then take into account the varying needs of the goat. Let's say you have one goat, Geraldine, who has been cared for and well tended all her life. You also have Georgina, who was ruthlessly weaned too early, callously bred too early, had coccidiosis as a kid but was never treated. Although Georgina is a fighter, and survived all this, her digestive tract and her immune system is irreparably damaged. Frankly, her gut can not take in the all the same nutrients that Geraldine can, so effortlessly.

Is the same mineral expected to seamlessly work in 2 extremely different guts?

Surely not.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> It all depends on your area. You might need to give copper more or less often than every 6 months, you might not need to give extra selenium.
> 
> You can open up the copper bolus capsules and pour it on grain, disguise it in a treat, or whatever else to get them to eat it.
> 
> ...


Suzanne_Tyler in a previous thread I started about my goat fawn I showed you a picture of her and you said she looks either copper and selenium deficient.

Well my girlfriend and I took a copper pill and took it apart and force fed Fawn the pill with a syringe(no needle)mixed with water about 3-4 weeks ago. Fawn's tail and coat didn't seem to improve.

So we should go for selenium now? Can I get the selenium/e gel at family farm and home or Tractor supply company?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

How much copper did you give her? What brand?

I think some TSCs carry selenium/e, but not sure. I just order from Amazon or Jeffers.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> How much copper did you give her? What brand?
> 
> I think some TSCs carry selenium/e, but not sure. I just order from Amazon or Jeffers.


One 4 gram pill of "Ultra Cruz" by San Juan Ranch. Its says one pill is good 8 months to one year and is good for one goat over 50 pounds and over 3 months of age on the pill bottle.

Will a fecal test by a veterinarian be able to tell me if the any my goats are low on copper/selenium?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. A fecal test can not tell those things.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Ultra Cruz/Santa Cruz is known for animal cruelty and abuse, and their copper bolus doesn't work anyways. It's not actually copper oxide. I would give her another 4 grams copasure brand copper bolus.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ultra Cruz does work. Give another dose. Mine need much more than the goat sized bolus. When you run out of the Ultra Cruz, go ahead and switch to copasure brand if you want to. No reason to waste the money you've already spent.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

mariarose said:


> Ultra Cruz does work. Give another dose. Mine need much more than the goat sized bolus. When you run out of the Ultra Cruz, go ahead and switch to copasure brand if you want to. No reason to waste the money you've already spent.


Well I feel like everything I'm doing is a shot in the dark.

Can a vet do a blood test to check for copper and selenium levels in a goat?

Should I do a water test on my well water to check the levels of copper and selenium?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

There is no way to test selenium and copper levels unless you test the soil in which all their feed is grown. Which is pretty much impossible.

If they are exhibiting the signs of a mineral deficiency, I just up the dose of that mineral until they quit having those symptoms.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can test your well water for iron. Iron binds copper.


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## bamaherd (Jun 14, 2017)

Our breeder recommended using Replamin once a month. It's copper and selenium with some magnesium and other minerals. It's a gel, so you can hold the boat between your knees and gently inject it into their mouth. It will absorb. Much more pleasant for you and the goat.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Replamin should actually be done once a week.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I'm not sure how you're giving your bolus but it shouldn't be some awful painful experience for the goat. It's similar to pilling a dog. They're over it fairly quickly. I personally have found no method more efficient than quickly cramming it down their throats. I have almost thirty, and when they need medicated or treated it is done whether I like doing it or not. I also don't like cleaning up their droppings, but I do that as well.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

CrazyDogLady said:


> I'm not sure how you're giving your bolus but it shouldn't be some awful painful experience for the goat. It's similar to pilling a dog. They're over it fairly quickly. I personally have found no method more efficient than quickly cramming it down their throats. I have almost thirty, and when they need medicated or treated it is done whether I like doing it or not. I also don't like cleaning up their droppings, but I do that as well.


Same here! I have no other way to make sure they get what they should do it's shoved down them with a balling gun and no they don't like it but forgive right away


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

You can mix each goat's dose of copper pellets into a treat. Someone recently mentioned making little PBJs, which sounds a lot simpler than the bon bons I make with molasses, corn oil, wheat germ & flax seeds.

Where can I buy Replamin?


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

I haven't tied using the bolus method yet. My girlfriend and I used a syringe with no needle mixed water copper pill method.


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## kathyc (Jan 14, 2017)

re: replamin plus gel - you can purchase it online ex: jefferspet here:
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus

I bought the convenient 80cc size, and I squeeze 5cc of it per goat once a week in their feed bins. One of my goats loves the taste and will eat it from my fingers, the other one won't but will eat it when it is in his feed bin so I just do both that way. No struggling with jamming something down their throats. My goats are 215 & 250 lb so it can be quite a wrestling match 

re: copper/selenium testing - my vet did do a blood test for both of these on my one goat, he had some very puzzling nutritional issues. My vet consulted with Dr Pugh who co-authored a goat/sheep medicine book, and we ended up incorporating Zinpro 4-Plex-C in his diet for copper/cobalt, I give 1/4 tsp daily in his feed. It only comes in ridiculously expensive large bags, but I found you can order just a pound from goatworld.com - it will come repackaged into a small ziploc.

Not sure why we didn't go the copper bolus route honestly, probably should have asked but this is easy enough.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

kathyc said:


> re: replamin plus gel - you can purchase it online ex: jefferspet here:
> https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus
> 
> I bought the convenient 80cc size, and I squeeze 5cc of it per goat once a week in their feed bins. One of my goats loves the taste and will eat it from my fingers, the other one won't but will eat it when it is in his feed bin so I just do both that way. No struggling with jamming something down their throats. My goats are 215 & 250 lb so it can be quite a wrestling match
> ...


Thanks for answering my question on if a vet can do a blood test on a goat for copper and selenium levels. No one answered that one. LOL

Ok so Replamin gel covers both copper and selenium needs for the goat in one gel?


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

bamaherd said:


> Our breeder recommended using Replamin once a month. It's copper and selenium with some magnesium and other minerals. It's a gel, so you can hold the boat between your knees and gently inject it into their mouth. It will absorb. Much more pleasant for you and the goat.


Ok so if I get the Replamin gel then I don't need to buy copper pills anymore? Does Replamin have enough copper in it to cover the goats copper needs?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You might still need to give copper bolus.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigz48877 said:


> I haven't tied using the bolus method yet. My girlfriend and I used a syringe with no needle mixed water copper pill method.


If you were not a fan of the water and rods you will not like putting the copper bolus down them with a balling gun or pill popper although it would be over with much faster.
What I just did with my bucks since they are huge and I hate attempting to manhandle their nasty selfs is I opened a bolus and put on top of their grain. When it was gone I didn't see any rods but their grain has a good amount of molasses in it so I think that helped the rods stick to the grain. We will see how it works going into them that way.
With the gel you can try it and just keep a eye on them. You may still need to give copper but it SHOULD make it so you don't have to as often


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

kathyc said:


> re: replamin plus gel - you can purchase it online ex: jefferspet here:
> https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus
> 
> I bought the convenient 80cc size, and I squeeze 5cc of it per goat once a week in their feed bins. One of my goats loves the taste and will eat it from my fingers, the other one won't but will eat it when it is in his feed bin so I just do both that way. No struggling with jamming something down their throats. My goats are 215 & 250 lb so it can be quite a wrestling match
> ...


Thanks for the jefferspet link. I'm going to order some selenium gel and replamin plus gel soon.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Thanks for the advice everyone. 

Boy I got a lot to learn..


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## bamaherd (Jun 14, 2017)

Oh wow!! onder:


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## bamaherd (Jun 14, 2017)

A lot of interesting advice here. I am a very gentle person and would rather not have to jam something down my babies throats. We bought a Manna Pro Goat Minerals sack at TSC. I read in our books about urinary calculi and that the best prevention is ammonium chloride. The manna pro minerals does contain this as an ingredient. Do any of you supplement extra ammonium chloride or does the manna pro contain enough?:?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No the best prevention is the correct ratio in their feed. It is (correct me someone if I am wrong) 3:1 calcium : phosphorus. Now because that is a little hard to do unless you are testing every thing the goats eat, the AC in that should be fine I would assume. 
And there is nothing wrong with not wanting to shove things down your babies. I hate giving shots, totally detest it but also I know sometimes it's needed. But believe me if I have the option of oral or shot they get oral lol so just try your plan and see how it goes but always be prepared to go back to the drawing board.......hey when it comes to goats that is probably the most quoted saying ever lol


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

The only true way of testing for copper is from a bit of liver. Testing for copper in the blood is not a true reading, it only tells you what is in the blood at that particular moment. Copper is stored in the liver, the body draws from that source. That is where you need to test from. You can really only do that from a dead goat, those that have it done usually take a bit of liver from an adult goat they send to freezer camp and send it to the lab.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Ok I just gave my doe Fawn a copper pill about 1.5 months ago. Is it safe for me to give her the replamin plus gel with copper right away? Or should I just give her the selenium gel for now?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Fine to give it.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

The replamin plus gel I ordered from Jefferspet. Com came in the mail today. I bought a 300cc tube and the 5cc-10cc applicator gun with it. I mixed in their grain and they ate it. 

Is that what you guys do mix it their grain?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can do that. Or just give it to them right in their mouth.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Since you don't like forcing it down them that's how I would do it. Just make sure they are not spitting it out or your just throwing it away


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

I would like to give a update on my goats I have been them replamin gel plus for about 3 weeks now every Saturday. Their hair is looking shiny and feels softer less brittle and course. My doe Fawn her hair by her tail is still kinda brittle and course though. The front area of her hair by the head, shoulder and back looks better.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad they are showing improvement. It will take a while.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

bamaherd said:


> A lot of interesting advice here. I am a very gentle person and would rather not have to jam something down my babies throats. We bought a Manna Pro Goat Minerals sack at TSC. I read in our books about urinary calculi and that the best prevention is ammonium chloride. The manna pro minerals does contain this as an ingredient. Do any of you supplement extra ammonium chloride or does the manna pro contain enough?:?


Also can use apple cider vinegar in water for this problem


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

You can blow your mind by searching here for map for US regarding deficiencies in your region! I know I posted a link at least once on here, but a good portion of the US anyhow is deficient-the numbers and stats blew me away-but seeing was believing and with the sharing here and assistance by all these great goat and livestock folks-have learned a ton!!! 

Keep reading and good luck!❤❤


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Goats, require a high level of most minerals then just about any other livestock animal. They have a high metabolism and burn through more / faster. Being browsers like say deer, they would typically get these for a variety of foods, leaves, bark, soil and salt licks. But being confined to a single area or back yard, drastically reduces their ability to regulate their own mineral intake. And even then, there are areas that are deficient. So as goat owners, it then falls on us to supply our animals with what they need. Can a goat survive without? Absolutely. But by not regulating their mineral and food intake, you can expect a number of issues to arise.

First off, there is a way to test your animals. Its called a blood mineral annalists test. Most universities that do say CAE tests, offer to do blood tests as well. BUT doing just one goat wont give you a basic understanding of your herd. A minimum of 6 animals should be done to get an idea about your herd. Also, this test is dramatically influenced by simple changes in diet. Lets say you switched to a loose mineral that the goats like and have been really eating it. You could see mineral levels where they should be but in actuality, they are still very deficient. So the results of this test should just be used as a guideline and note done within 2 weeks of you changing up their feed or minerals.

As for loose minerals, not all minerals are equal. Sulfate and Oxide based minerals are the cheapest and easiest ways to produce minerals so they are what you will see most common in loose mineral mixes. But they are also the hardest to digest and use. As much as 80% of these kinds of minerals pass right through the animal. So if possible, look for minerals that are carbonate or amino acid based. When looking for a loose mineral mix, focus on Selenium (if you are in a lower area) copper, magnesium and zinc. These are the 4 main minerals goats need. The higher their levels the better. But its also more then just this. Minerals often need other minerals or vitamins to be absorb property. Or things like high iron levels in their water can bind to the minerals and make them less effective. So you might find that you will need to do the extra things like giving the copper bolus, BoSe, multimin90 injections. No, your animals are not going to like it. They wont like you worming them or hoof trimming them either but because you have taken on the responsibility of owning them, you have to take on the responsibility of doing all the things they hate because its what they need.

Now, it also sounds like you might be making your feeding drastically more complicated then it needs to be as well. A non working / lactating goat, doesnt need anything besides a good quality hay. You can shop around to growers and find one who does testing and ask to see their results. This is the best way for animals to get their minerals as they are 100% natural. Things like grains are actually not very good for goaties and shouldnt be a mainstay in their diet IMO. And if the goats in question are males, then they should ABSOLUTELY never get grain. You will need to add AC to their lost mineral mix and if you were feeding them grain, a long treatment program should be implemented to counter the possible ill effects of the grain.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

TDG-Farms said:


> Goats, require a high level of most minerals then just about any other livestock animal. They have a high metabolism and burn through more / faster. Being browsers like say deer, they would typically get these for a variety of foods, leaves, bark, soil and salt licks. But being confined to a single area or back yard, drastically reduces their ability to regulate their own mineral intake. And even then, there are areas that are deficient. So as goat owners, it then falls on us to supply our animals with what they need. Can a goat survive without? Absolutely. But by not regulating their mineral and food intake, you can expect a number of issues to arise.
> 
> First off, there is a way to test your animals. Its called a blood mineral annalists test. Most universities that do say CAE tests, offer to do blood tests as well. BUT doing just one goat wont give you a basic understanding of your herd. A minimum of 6 animals should be done to get an idea about your herd. Also, this test is dramatically influenced by simple changes in diet. Lets say you switched to a loose mineral that the goats like and have been really eating it. You could see mineral levels where they should be but in actuality, they are still very deficient. So the results of this test should just be used as a guideline and note done within 2 weeks of you changing up their feed or minerals.
> 
> ...


I have a young 4-5 month wether and buck. Should young growing male goats get grain?

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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

bigz48877 said:


> I have a young 4-5 month wether and buck. Should young growing male goats get grain?
> 
> Nope, no grain at all. If you feed a good quality alfalfa, that opens you up to some grain treats but not much. And never on a daily bases. Grain is the biggest cause of UC. Can use a alfalfa pellet in place of grain though. Now, if you are growing a butcher kid for say market stock, then you kinda need to give them that grain so they are nice and fat. But if you plan on keeping that kid long term, you will need to be doing a heavy course of ammonium chloride to help counter the grain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S327VL using Goat Forum mobile app


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Or you can just make sure the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the grain is ok. That's what causes the UC.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Or you can just make sure the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the grain is ok. That's what causes the UC.


Tractor supply sells Dumor brand goat pellets and it's says on the bag it has stuff in it to prevent urinary coloia. The feed I give them now I get from my local feed and grain mill. It's a calf grower I was told by people in a different thread I started that it's ok to give them the calf grower. I didn't know urinary coloia was such a problem.

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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Or you can just make sure the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the grain is ok. That's what causes the UC.


Does the replamin plus gel have calcium and phosphorus to help prevent UC?

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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Those medicated feeds dont typically have enough AC to actually help. If its a 50 lbs bag, it needs at least 6% AC added. There is no grain that is balanced unless they are adding calcium to the mix. But grain is still not a good daily feed source. Its for fattening up an animal.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

TDG-Farms said:


> Those medicated feeds dont typically have enough AC to actually help. If its a 50 lbs bag, it needs at least 6% AC added. There is no grain that is balanced unless they are adding calcium to the mix. But grain is still not a good daily feed source. Its for fattening up an animal.


Ok so your saying stop giving the goats any grain and just give them hay, alfalfa cubes, minerals like replamin plus gel and the occasional copper bolus(6 months)?

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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Great responses and discussion! So, wondering if TGD or any of you know what the results should be from quality hay? Can you analyze hay test results?

So, as our area-region is deficient in so many minerals the goats need-doesn't that also translate to hay grown here to also be deficient?

We still grain the does and growing kids, but have found them not to usually be very fat. Not sure if they get too little to have that affect,...just this winter did a few of our breeders seem to gain much extra weight! First time ever. Now they have begun kidding...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Alfalfa pellets, not cubes. If hay is grown in deficient soil, it will be deficient.


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## odieclark (Jan 21, 2016)

Deficiencies in soil = deficiencies in harvested hay/etc.

Thanks Karen!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

bigz48877 said:


> Tractor supply sells Dumor brand goat pellets and it's says on the bag it has stuff in it to prevent urinary coloia. The feed I give them now I get from my local feed and grain mill. It's a calf grower I was told by people in a different thread I started that it's ok to give them the calf grower. I didn't know urinary coloia was such a problem.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S327VL using Goat Forum mobile app


Just giving AC isn't the greatest prevention method. What is the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the feed?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

bigz48877 said:


> Does the replamin plus gel have calcium and phosphorus to help prevent UC?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S327VL using Goat Forum mobile app


No. You have to balance the whole diet, grain hay, browse, and any other parts of your goats' diet.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> No. You have to balance the whole diet, grain hay, browse, and any other parts of your goats' diet.


The goat mana pro has calcium and phosphorus. I have been giving them that. That's helps with UC

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Minerals are a very small part of their diet. While it is good that the mineral is properly balanced, it plays such a small role that that alone will not prevent UC. You must address the entire diet which includes everything they put in their mouth.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> Minerals are a very small part of their diet. While it is good that the mineral is properly balanced, it plays such a small role that that alone will not prevent UC. You must address the entire diet which includes everything they put in their mouth.


Are you saying everything I give my goats needs things in it that prevent UC? Ok you guys are really confusing me..

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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Watch this video.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Just giving AC isn't the greatest prevention method. What is the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the feed?












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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That's between 2:1 and 3:1, which is pretty good.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

bigz48877 said:


> Sent from my SM-S327VL using Goat Forum mobile app


Ok the lady we bought our does from never gave us this info I believe because she didn't own any bucks and because we bought does she probably didn't feel this info was necessary. The lady we bought our buck and wether from thought they were Nigerian dwarf mixes. They are mytonic fainting goats so apparently she doesn't know much about goats or unirary coloia. So she never relayed the info.

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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Watch this video.


Thanks for sending me that video. Ok how come nobody mentioned on this thread that female goats don't get Unirary coilia? So even if I stop giving my male goats grain I have to balance out there diet of hay to alfalfa ratio because hay is in phosphorus and alfalfa is high in calcium?

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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Does have wider and shorter urethras so the stones have less tendency to have trouble passing. 

Depends on the kind of hay. You could just replace the grain you're giving them with alfalfa pellets. I give my bucks free choice alfalfa hay and no grain.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Does have wider and shorter urethras so the stones have less tendency to have trouble passing.
> 
> Depends on the kind of hay. You could just replace the grain you're giving them with alfalfa pellets. I give my bucks free choice alfalfa hay and no grain.


Ok thanks for the info. The diet and feed of goats is so complicated. It would have been nice if the breeders I bought my goats from would have told me about these things. Geez when I eventually breed and sell goats I'm going to write down all this stuff on like a 4 page pamphlet for first time goat owner's to read and learn my encounters.

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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

There is no one set answer for what to feed a goat. Depends on if they are male, or female, milking, not milking, boer or dairy, wethered or not. Working or pet. On pasture or dye lotted. But if we go with the basics, quality hay and loose minerals, then you adapt it to your own needs. Personally, I would never feed a grass hay. Unless the grower really knows what they are doing, there just isnt enough there for me to pay the same or higher prices over alfalfa. If you can visit a fair in your area, they will often times have a hay growing contest where growers bring in their best hays and have em tested. But you can do a google search and compare the averages. A quality alfalfa will be from 16%-24% protein. The lower end could be fed to non working goats, while the higher end is best for dams with kids or milk goats in general. Here is the deal with any and all grains. They are more often then not, the off fall. The broken and power residue from cracking hole grains. But even the higher quality grains are not a good thing to feed a goat. First off their digestive systems are best suited for legumes, grasses, weeds and leaves. They will get the most outta these kinda feeds. Grain, pelleted or whole are for fattening up market or butcher stock. Think of grains as candy cause thats the kind of effect they have on goats. Its not a health fat they put on from grain. Grain should never be a regular part of a healthy in shape goats diet. This doesnt count putting quick weight on a starving animal or giving grain to does while they are on the milk stand OR if they are raising babies. If you want to feed a grain type feed, go with an alfalfa pellet instead. 

Alfalfa is typically a 4 to 1 ratio (calcium / phosphorous). So this does give you a little room for grain treats if you wanna spoil your goatie and counter the imbalance in most other feeds. Grass hay is typically 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio. Although closer to the ideal ratio, they are lacking in protein and minerals that alfalfa typically has. A study by the university of purdue actually showed that alfalfa aided in the prevention of UC.

A good balanced loose mineral help to fill in the gaps that hay cant supply. But even then, its often not enough. So people do copper boluses, or BoSe shots or any number of things. Here, we give our goats mulitmin90 shots once ever 3-4 months. We leave out two different loose minerals. Once, a 16/8 goat mineral plus from CHS (payback). We add more zinc to it cause its not to our liking. We also have a true trace mineral (also CHS brand) that is 96% salt with just a touch of other minerals. This way they can choose. For the boys, I would add 3 lbs of ammonium chloride to their 50 lbs bag of loose mineral. This is the level that it needs to be at for preventing UC. But without knowing for sure if they are getting enough, I will sprinkly 1 1/2 tablespoons of AC over a small scoop of damp grain once ever 2-4 weeks just to make sure.

So here is the deal. Everyone has developed a feeding program that works for them. Can you get away with feeding a wether nothing but grain? Sure. I have heard of lots of people who have and never had any issues. Can a wether get UC even if everything is done right? Sure, have heard of it happening too. So there is no set in stone, this is how you have to do it. But, there are a number of long time goat owners on here whos knowledge and wisdom was hard fought and sometimes tragically obtained. Take what we have to say to heart and adapt it how best it works for you.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

TDG-Farms said:


> There is no one set answer for what to feed a goat. Depends on if they are male, or female, milking, not milking, boer or dairy, wethered or not. Working or pet. On pasture or dye lotted. But if we go with the basics, quality hay and loose minerals, then you adapt it to your own needs. Personally, I would never feed a grass hay. Unless the grower really knows what they are doing, there just isnt enough there for me to pay the same or higher prices over alfalfa. If you can visit a fair in your area, they will often times have a hay growing contest where growers bring in their best hays and have em tested. But you can do a google search and compare the averages. A quality alfalfa will be from 16%-24% protein. The lower end could be fed to non working goats, while the higher end is best for dams with kids or milk goats in general. Here is the deal with any and all grains. They are more often then not, the off fall. The broken and power residue from cracking hole grains. But even the higher quality grains are not a good thing to feed a goat. First off their digestive systems are best suited for legumes, grasses, weeds and leaves. They will get the most outta these kinda feeds. Grain, pelleted or whole are for fattening up market or butcher stock. Think of grains as candy cause thats the kind of effect they have on goats. Its not a health fat they put on from grain. Grain should never be a regular part of a healthy in shape goats diet. This doesnt count putting quick weight on a starving animal or giving grain to does while they are on the milk stand OR if they are raising babies. If you want to feed a grain type feed, go with an alfalfa pellet instead.
> 
> Alfalfa is typically a 4 to 1 ratio (calcium / phosphorous). So this does give you a little room for grain treats if you wanna spoil your goatie and counter the imbalance in most other feeds. Grass hay is typically 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio. Although closer to the ideal ratio, they are lacking in protein and minerals that alfalfa typically has. A study by the university of purdue actually showed that alfalfa aided in the prevention of UC.
> 
> ...


Good post. Where can I get ammonium chloride?

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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I bought my ammonium chloride from Amazon.com.

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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I used to get mine from Hoggers (spelt wrong) but they are so terrible now, I dont know if you would ever see your order. But any number of other online livestock supply sites should also have it.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I got mine from Amazon as well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

TDG-Farms said:


> There is no one set answer for what to feed a goat. Depends on if they are male, or female, milking, not milking, boer or dairy, wethered or not. Working or pet. On pasture or dye lotted. But if we go with the basics, quality hay and loose minerals, then you adapt it to your own needs. Personally, I would never feed a grass hay. Unless the grower really knows what they are doing, there just isnt enough there for me to pay the same or higher prices over alfalfa. If you can visit a fair in your area, they will often times have a hay growing contest where growers bring in their best hays and have em tested. But you can do a google search and compare the averages. A quality alfalfa will be from 16%-24% protein. The lower end could be fed to non working goats, while the higher end is best for dams with kids or milk goats in general. Here is the deal with any and all grains. They are more often then not, the off fall. The broken and power residue from cracking hole grains. But even the higher quality grains are not a good thing to feed a goat. First off their digestive systems are best suited for legumes, grasses, weeds and leaves. They will get the most outta these kinda feeds. Grain, pelleted or whole are for fattening up market or butcher stock. Think of grains as candy cause thats the kind of effect they have on goats. Its not a health fat they put on from grain. Grain should never be a regular part of a healthy in shape goats diet. This doesnt count putting quick weight on a starving animal or giving grain to does while they are on the milk stand OR if they are raising babies. If you want to feed a grain type feed, go with an alfalfa pellet instead.
> 
> Alfalfa is typically a 4 to 1 ratio (calcium / phosphorous). So this does give you a little room for grain treats if you wanna spoil your goatie and counter the imbalance in most other feeds. Grass hay is typically 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio. Although closer to the ideal ratio, they are lacking in protein and minerals that alfalfa typically has. A study by the university of purdue actually showed that alfalfa aided in the prevention of UC.
> 
> ...


Very, very well said.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Jolly German sells AC. He is very nice to deal with. Don't go to Hoegger's. They were good, but are now horrible. They have stolen $200.00 from me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How awful.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a couple of goats that need copper - I open the pill and put it on top of their grain. It works that way as I have seen the difference in a few weeks. Also -was told by a friend that many give BoSe orally so tried it on a girl I knew was deficient and I could see it worked for her so why do the needle. If the gel works BoSe would work better and mine hate the gel. I gave my Nigerians 1cc orally. I don't like to stress them any more than I have to. I also got some Ultra Cruz and was going to discard it as several people on the forum said it didn't work. My hubby opened one and don't know what he did to test it but he said it was copper, using it but will by buying copasture from now on just to be surer that I can trust the co.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Jolly German sells AC. He is very nice to deal with. Don't go to Hoegger's. They were good, but are now horrible. They have stolen $200.00 from me.


If you can't get your money from Hoeggers call and ask to speak to the owner. I did this and got an elderly lady -she said she would take care of the problem and my money was credited back to my card. I won't use them anymore. I think she said her daughter in law was running things now.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

This is the tag off a bag of the feed I was giving them from my local feed mill

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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Everyone here gets grain while they are growing, including bucks & wethers. They usually get cut down & out by the time they are around 9 mos old. After that it's straight alfalfa. We dry lot so this might not work for everyone.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

nancy d said:


> Everyone here gets grain while they are growing, including bucks & wethers. They usually get cut down & out by the time they are around 9 mos old. After that it's straight alfalfa. We dry lot so this might not work for everyone.


Ok. The phosphorus to calcium ratio is 2.7 to 1 on my local feed mills calf grower they told me it's fine for goats too..

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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Most things will work orally. But not nearly as effectively. Meds and vaccines are measured out how they are to be administered. IM is always going to be the most effective and quickest absorption. SQ next. Oral administration will be the least effective. Sulfate and oxide based minerals are the cheapest to make and the least effective to be absorbed. Orally you will lose up to 80%. But like multimin90 that is given IM in adult animals, all of it is absorbed.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

TDG-Farms said:


> Most things will work orally. But not nearly as effectively. Meds and vaccines are measured out how they are to be administered. IM is always going to be the most effective and quickest absorption. SQ next. Oral administration will be the least effective. Sulfate and oxide based minerals are the cheapest to make and the least effective to be absorbed. Orally you will lose up to 80%. But like multimin90 that is given IM in adult animals, all of it is absorbed.


What do you mean administered "IM" and "SQ"

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Injected in the muscle or under the skin.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> Injected in the muscle or under the skin.


Do they offer mineral injections for copper and selenium for goats?

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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'm pretty sure MultiMin that TGD mentioned has copper and selenium.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

BoSe is injectable selenium and Vitamin E. No injectable copper only.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> BoSe is injectable selenium and Vitamin E. No injectable copper only.


Ok so there's no way to inject copper?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You wouldn't want to. You'd probably OD the goat on a copper only and kill them. There is copper in Multimin which is a multi vitamin mineral injectable.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> You wouldn't want to. You'd probably OD the goat on a copper only and kill them. There is copper in Multimin which is a multi vitamin mineral injectable.


Ok I will have to check out the Multimin shot. Sounds like the goats would get more of the vitamins and minerals they need properly absorbed into there body with a shot.

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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Why are you convinced an injection is the path to take? I'm not understanding.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

mariarose said:


> Why are you convinced an injection is the path to take? I'm not understanding.


Not sure? They say it absorbs better?

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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So, injection is the path to take in dire emergencies...that I would never deny. Also for extremely damaged digestive tracts. But I would balk at injections being the first defense for most routine nutrition deficiency issues. Dietary and considered (oral) supplementation is the way to go for most of us.

One way can keep an individual going, the other teaches how to keep the whole herd healthy.


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## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

mariarose said:


> So, injection is the path to take in dire emergencies...that I would never deny. Also for extremely damaged digestive tracts. But I would balk at injections being the first defense for most routine nutrition deficiency issues. Dietary and considered (oral) supplementation is the way to go for most of us.


Well I'm not going to try injections just yet my goats aren't that bad yet. I will keep using replamin plus gel and the copper bolus method.

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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

bigz, If you PM me, I will try to be as much help as I can and walk you through some things to do with minerals and feed.


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