# Seeking Advice



## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Sorry if this is in the wrong area of the forums I didn't know where else to post it. I'm a long time lurker finally making my first post.

Down to the story, I run a small homestead on about 2 maybe 3 acres of land. I have chickens, rabbits, and a couple of goats. As a favor to a friend I let their daughter live with me and help out around the place as a sort of "job" while she figured out what she wanted to do with her life.

We got along well for the first couple of weeks and let her know from the get go that our animals while family also had jobs to do and some end up as food. She seemed to understand and accept that fact of life.

Well gradually I started to notice that stuff would go missing from the fridge. Fresh goats milk would be gone, the eggs I had just gathered, gone.. 

So I staked out the kitchen and caught her pouring the milk down the drain and trying to sneak the eggs back out to the chickens. I confronted her asking what she thought she was doing and she snapped back quoting a lot of Peta propaganda.

And just today I noticed that all my rabbits that were in my butcher pen mysteriously disappeared between last night and this am... When questioned she acts like she knows nothing. You can't easily access these rabbits and there is no sign of a struggle. I'm at my wits end... She doesn't respect me or my property yet I have gone out of my way to make sure I respected her and her feelings. Even going so far as to move most of my animal products out of the main fridge and into the basement fridge. She is now threatening to take my goats tons sanctuary as well if I don't stop "stealing" their milk.

Her mom is no help and just says she is going through a phase and to ignore her..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Throw her out. She can go back home. No way I would allow a guest in my home to do that. Have her removed immediately.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

BlackCat said:


> Sorry if this is in the wrong area of the forums I didn't know where else to post it. I'm a long time lurker finally making my first post.
> 
> Down to the story, I run a small homestead on about 2 maybe 3 acres of land. I have chickens, rabbits, and a couple of goats. As a favor to a friend I let their daughter live with me and help out around the place as a sort of "job" while she figured out what she wanted to do with her life.
> 
> ...


Yea. Tell her mom to take her back since she seems be SO understanding. You work HARD for your way of life and she has absolutely no business doin this nonsense! She can do that crap in her mothers home.

Also. What did she do with the rabbits? They cannot fend for themselves. Ugh darn kid! She might think she was doin good but she is just hurting them.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

You must put your foot down now. Pack her stuff in your trunk take her out to ice cream and then to her mom's house. Dump her and her stuff on the curb and drive away. 
Entitlement is rampant with kids now days. 
Do not allow her back on your property.


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

I would be so irate having someone trying to do that in my own home. Please do yourself the favor and get her to leave. Unnecessary stress is not needed.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I agree with all of the above. Sometimes confrontation can be hard. Since you moved some or all your animal products into your downstairs fridge it sounds like she’s already made you feel you can’t be yourself in your own home. Look at it this way, you need to set an example of a person who isn’t afraid of being a homesteader and that you can’t be persuaded or passively bullied in your own home.
What would your advice be to a close friend in the same position?
The longer you wait to take control of this situation the more she will stress you out and get away with her behavior. Everyone has freedom to have their own beliefs where animals are concerned but not in someone else’s home. Her actions are extremely rude and disrespectful!
Good luck to you sending you positive thoughts and courage to take her home where it sounds like she belongs. :gottago:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Out and out now! Animal rights crazies are on the rise here in California and I have seen them totally destroy people! Get her out before she is taken in by a wacko group and she destroys you. I know someone people may be rolling their eyes at me thinking I am over reacting but I am not! Even if I am over reacting do you really want someone in your home doing everything they can to destroy what you have going on even if by herself? After she is gone keep a close eye on all your animals. Those rabbits went some place and if not wild and free she already has someone to help her “save” your animals


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All are correct, get her out.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

I have considered booting her out back to her parents place but they are currently out of the country and she lost her only copy of their house key. :/

She doesn't have any friends I can dump her on either as most of them dumped her once she started with the ara crazy.

As for the rabbit's she tried to convince me to take them to a shelter instead of processing them for food for me and a neighbor. Pretty sure she stole them in the night and dumped them at the local humane shelter. I'm calling around now to see if any of our AC had about 20 rabbits dumped on them recently.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I am curious how old this inconsiderate, rude, disrespectful, stealing, manipulating, malicious and ungrateful little upstart is. Going by the statement that she was trying to figure out what she wanted to do with her life, possibly an older teen. How far does your obligation or desire to help a friend need to go towards making your life miserable? Are you afraid of damaging a friendship? I would not put up with that nonsense from a blood relative and even less so for a friend. My peace of mind, way of life and home are categorized as the few things in life that I am in complete control of. If she is of legal age, put her out. If she is a minor, take her to her mother. Toxic relationships aren't worth the grief.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

BlackCat said:


> I have considered booting her out back to her parents place but they are currently out of the country and she lost her only copy of their house key. :/
> 
> She doesn't have any friends I can dump her on either as most of them dumped her once she started with the ara crazy.
> 
> As for the rabbit's she tried to convince me to take them to a shelter instead of processing them for food for me and a neighbor. Pretty sure she stole them in the night and dumped them at the local humane shelter. I'm calling around now to see if any of our AC had about 20 rabbits dumped on them recently.


I am not as soft hearted as the others on here. I agree with the "get her out" everyone is saying, I would just call the law on her and let the county put her up for a little while. 
My two cents, please don't hate me. You asked.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

There are ways to get into your own home without a house key. Been there done that by accidentally locking myself out. Who is to say the lost key wasn't a ploy to tug on your heart strings? That key may not even be lost.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If she has a car (since she delivered the rabbits?) then she has a place to live for now. See ya!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Out of respect for your friend (not the daughter), I would leave a voicemail for the parents explaining that you had to ask their daughter to leave because she was destroying and stealing your personal property.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Seriously, you are a steward of your animals, they have only you to protect them from ignorant youth. It is your obligation to them first. 
Thus far no one has supported your decision to allow this abusive person to continue forcing her will upon you. 
You owe nothing to her self centered parents. They dumped their inconvenient problem on you. 
It is not your place to suffer for your friends lack of parenting.
Hire a locksmith. Get the door open and be done with this.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

OK I'm done with this little 17yr old snot. She left the goat pen open on purpose and while I was wrangling up all of them she went and released 3 of my most expensive rabbits that I literally JUST picked up from a breeder yesterday (think about $200 per animal). I managed to catch the buck but the two expecting does are gone I have no clue where they took off.

I have her grandparents on the phone right now. They live about 10hrs away and are meeting me halfway to pick up this little snot. They are already giving her a tongue lashing over the phone since they had a farm themselves about 30yrs ago and know the hard work that goes into maintaining one. The grandmother is even encouraging me to write up a bill of lost profit for the girl's mother to pay once they get back into country. She wants me to include the rabbits that went missing and all the milk and eggs the girl has thrown out.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Absolutely write up a bill. That is ridiculous. Domestic rabbits don't do well in the wild. I hope you are able to catch the 2 rabbits. Dumping food is wasteful and you should be compensated for that as well.

Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Text the girl a photo of the carcass if you end up finding any of your rabbits dead. 

So glad you reached the grandmother.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Good for you! And I am SO sorry she had to push you to that point. Your reply about the lost key and not having friends truly shows what a wonderful person you are. I’m sorry I would have kicked her out as soon as I noticed things missing, but you didn’t and as much as I wouldn’t have done the same it shows your heart. I hope one day she realizes there are NOT very many people like you in this world and she is ashamed of herself! 
Do what ever you need to do to get her out. She is not worth taking food out of your and your animals mouth or putting them in danger. I am so sorry this happened. 
I would also write up the bill. You probably will never be paid for it but I would push it as far as you can afford. If anything let the parents realize that her odd “stage” needs to be leashed in. I don’t care if someone has the complete opposite of what my kids think is right and wrong the would have their butt paddled for disrespecting someone like that in their home


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> Absolutely write up a bill. That is ridiculous. Domestic rabbits don't do well in the wild. I hope you are able to catch the 2 rabbits. Dumping food is wasteful and you should be compensated for that as well.
> 
> Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished.


Pretty sure the mother isn't going to like that bill.. I'm going to include the price I paid for the female rabbits and the money I would have gotten from the unborn kits. So about $200 x 8 baby rabbits.. the bill is going to be over 2k


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## JearDOE Ranch (Aug 23, 2018)

I would definitely write up a bill. I hope the grandparents make her work it off! If she wants to feed the coyotes, she can buy the animals herself. she needs a hard lesson in respecting other people's property!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Tr


BlackCat said:


> Pretty sure the mother isn't going to like that bill.. I'm going to include the price I paid for the female rabbits and the money I would have gotten from the unborn kits. So about $200 x 8 baby rabbits.. the bill is going to be over 2k


Try settin out food and water closeish to your pens. We had a few beans get loose and they hung close. Maybe your does are hidin. That lil shit would be kept by police in a jail cell for a while. She really has done grand theft at this point. No way would she stay in my home another minute from all this crazy. She can stay in jail til mom a d dad get home or grandma felt to make that whole drive. It is NOT your responsibility to even take her halfway.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You did the right thing! She needs to be taught very expensive lesson. Had that been happening at my farm the law would have been involved and charges filed. Friend or no friend she's taking food out of your mouth and money out of your pocket. I Truly hope you get reimbursed for your losses.
Good luck


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I haven't read all the responses, so please forgive me if this is inappropriate. Alarm bells are going off like crazy in my head.

She is a minor, yes? Be extremely cautious... and extremely public, in all your communications with the girl. What is your relationship with the law officers in your area? If they are at all cordial with you, go to them, and fill out a report about all you have gone through, all you have said and done, to this point. Request (after this has been done) that they come and escort the girl off your premises. There are places for minors to go until the "responsible" parents reappear...

17 is an age where they can make incredibly stupid choices for themselves, and in so doing, make incredibly harmful choices for others. Please get, and keep, the law involved in EVERYTHING from this point forward.

17 year old girls are old enough to cause trouble, and young enough to cause trouble for YOU.

I'll continue reading now. I only skimmed, with mounting horror, before now.

OK, yes. I see that others are suggesting the law as well. Good. Make your report and turn everything over to the police, and do so NOW.
Don't have any dealings with the girl that are not in full public view, and do not allow yourself to lose your temper in any way whatsoever. You know how things can get twisted. Keep calm, and keep repeating the theft charges. Keep all emotion out of it now. Do not be alone with her. Do not put her into your car. Do not speak to her if there are not witnesses of your choosing. Do not react to any charges of impropriety of any sort that may come out of her mouth. Do not touch her at all, ever, in any way.

I'm so sorry.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am definetly with @mariarose on this. If you do take her anywhere, make sure it is not across state line. A child transported across state lines against rheir will is kidnapping. You are setting yourself up for a tremendous problem.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I agree, except... Don't take her anywhere. Ask the police to take her off your property. Press charges against her if this is the only way they will do so.

She's not right. You don't know what could come out of her mouth against you.

Many troubled teens do come out of their troubles. I'm not saying she is evil or beyond help. I'm saying YOU can't help and must protect your animals and yourself.

She is, at this moment, not right in the head and can't be trusted to do the responsible thing. The right thing. The moral thing. The thing that won't end up horribly for you and your animals.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

BlackCat said:


> I managed to catch the buck but the two expecting does are gone I have no clue where they took off.


That made me MAD!!!!!!! PREGNANT DOES poor girls i hope they show up soon still pregnant .when are they due?
She is hurting the animals more than helping them(headsmash)(headsmash)(headsmash)(headsmash)

Kudos to you for kicking her out


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I agree with @mariarose as well be very cautious! I hope it gets better not worse and that you recover all your animals.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Well update, my car died before we could even leave my house so her grandparents are making the full drive here. One of the does did turn up but had suffered a back injury paralyzing her and to end her suffering she was dispatched. Based on breeding dates they should be due here very soon and with that in mind once we confirmed doe was gone I jumped right in for a post-mortum c-section.

Managed to recover 8 health to term kits. One of my best retired breeders took over cleaning them up and eating up the placenta. I'm just frustratingly going to have to take over nursing them as I do not have any lactating does at the moment. They will stay with my retired breeder in a nest box in her cage though. She is excited to have squirmy pink things to care for again and keeps hopping in the nest to try to nurse them and clean them.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am glad you saved! Oh, good morning! Hopefully the other will show up. I am impressed with your compassion toward the girl, but watching her every second has to be taxing.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

BlackCat said:


> Well update


Thank you for the update. We are all worried.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Good morning. Relieved to hear some of your livestock have been located and sorry about the injury to the rabbit. It's good you were blessed with 8 healthy bunnies and it warms my heart that they have a foster mom to tend them. Yes, hand reading them will be a time consuming event, kudos to you for having the knowledge and experience to be able to do this. It may have been a good thing your car died, though sorry it did. You are a kind, generous and caring person.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Give our cheers to those grand parents! (They might need that now, getting a thief in their house ...)

As for the bill, I wish we could find a way for you to include the sufferings of the animals - and of you'! 

(And please, do not suggest feeding the coyotes with live animals! That is done too often here...)

Thanks for the update! Yes, it seems we are all worried.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

BlackCat said:


> Well update, my car died before we could even leave my house so her grandparents are making the full drive here. One of the does did turn up but had suffered a back injury paralyzing her and to end her suffering she was dispatched. Based on breeding dates they should be due here very soon and with that in mind once we confirmed doe was gone I jumped right in for a post-mortum c-section.
> 
> Managed to recover 8 health to term kits. One of my best retired breeders took over cleaning them up and eating up the placenta. I'm just frustratingly going to have to take over nursing them as I do not have any lactating does at the moment. They will stay with my retired breeder in a nest box in her cage though. She is excited to have squirmy pink things to care for again and keeps hopping in the nest to try to nurse them and clean them.


I am so happy that you were able to save the kits! Very sorry about the doe. Wretched child! I would have ABSOLUTELY shown her what exactly she did and she would have watched the whole thing in vivid color. We had a first time maman recently who didnt understand for five days the squirmers were hers and what to do. We kept puttin her over the kits but i had syringe them too. If you have any goat colostrum it was perfect for the kits here. Another maman got mastitis and we didnt realize it til almost too late.... those kits got a tinny bit of colostrum amd just reg goat milk. But they didnt thrive as well as just colostrum milks. If you dont have any available try callin goat people around you... even look on cl for bottle babies.... maybe their mamans are still givin a bit of it or they may have some saved. Can't hurt to ask. Stranger things have happened also and maybe your doe will make milk.... esp since she is thinkin they are hers and tryin nurse them.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

'colostrum milk', I found it in the translation machine! Yes, that is very important, and to the thread we plan about deliveries, we should add that it is wise always to store a small amount in the freezer, for possible problems next year!


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## JearDOE Ranch (Aug 23, 2018)

BlackCat said:


> Well update, my car died before we could even leave my house so her grandparents are making the full drive here. One of the does did turn up but had suffered a back injury paralyzing her and to end her suffering she was dispatched. Based on breeding dates they should be due here very soon and with that in mind once we confirmed doe was gone I jumped right in for a post-mortum c-section.
> 
> Managed to recover 8 health to term kits. One of my best retired breeders took over cleaning them up and eating up the placenta. I'm just frustratingly going to have to take over nursing them as I do not have any lactating does at the moment. They will stay with my retired breeder in a nest box in her cage though. She is excited to have squirmy pink things to care for again and keeps hopping in the nest to try to nurse them and clean them.


Thanks for the update! I was coming back to ask. I hope this doesn't hurt the friendship with your friend. Teenagers can be awful, self-righteous, self centered little brats. I hope she doesn't blame you for her daughter's horrendous behavior.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Sfgwife said:


> I am so happy that you were able to save the kits! Very sorry about the doe. Wretched child! I would have ABSOLUTELY shown her what exactly she did and she would have watched the whole thing in vivid color. We had a first time maman recently who didnt understand for five days the squirmers were hers and what to do. We kept puttin her over the kits but i had syringe them too. If you have any goat colostrum it was perfect for the kits here. Another maman got mastitis and we didnt realize it til almost too late.... those kits got a tinny bit of colostrum amd just reg goat milk. But they didnt thrive as well as just colostrum milks. If you dont have any available try callin goat people around you... even look on cl for bottle babies.... maybe their mamans are still givin a bit of it or they may have some saved. Can't hurt to ask. Stranger things have happened also and maybe your doe will make milk.... esp since she is thinkin they are hers and tryin nurse them.


Oh she was in the room while it was gping on! Even asked why I bothered trying to save the babies since I obviously hate my animals. (Thinks just because I raise them up, name them, and then eat them it's some sick joke on my part and I actually hate them, sigh..)

Either way I do have a small portion of goat colostrum tucked away in the deep freezer. The deceased mamma didn't go to waste as she had enough fresh milk/colostrum in her teets for them to get something in their bellies.

And the other doe has been found, by one of the neighbor's hunting hounds. Lost her and her litter to the dog mauling her. A portion of my missing 20 something rabbits has turned up as well at a local shelter. To get them back would cost me something like $30 per animal despite them being stolen from me. The shelter is run by a bunch of ARA type people as well and they are only charging so much because they know what will happen to the animals. :/

The grandparents are here as well, lovely people btw. Asking about potentially purchasing goats milk from me on a semi-regular business as they miss it.

Also here have a pic of one of the babies


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

And just for the heck of it here is a pic of one of my 6wk olds


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I do hope you can pass along the cost of recovering the stolen property (your rabbits) to the 17 yr old. Please tell me you went ahead and made out a police report? Without that, you don't have a leg to stand on, legally. If you have a police report, they can make the shelter release your property to you. To charge you would leave them open to the charge of receiving and profiting from, stolen goods. If you have a police report...

I'm an animal rights activist, myself. I work against animal cruelty and for basic animal rights. Many people here like me anyway... 

I'm horrified by what has happened to you, and even more horrified by what has happened to your livestock. I do hope you filed the necessary police report.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

BlackCat said:


> Oh she was in the room while it was gping on! Even asked why I bothered trying to save the babies since I obviously hate my animals. (Thinks just because I raise them up, name them, and then eat them it's some sick joke on my part and I actually hate them, sigh..)
> 
> Either way I do have a small portion of goat colostrum tucked away in the deep freezer. The deceased mamma didn't go to waste as she had enough fresh milk/colostrum in her teets for them to get something in their bellies.
> 
> ...


If you filed a police report you should be able get them back free. Cutie lil bean!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Oioioi, what sweeties! Long hair?

Hate your animals? I begin to suspect that girl is thinking a lot when by herself, making up things, and then really believe what she has made up. Some half deaf and mentally sick persons I know, do the same, much to the bewildering of their friends. Very good you have a good contact with the granny and grandpa!

I hope you managed to make good colour photos of your dog killed doe, to force the brat to look very carefully at? And ask her what evil the doe had done to her, when she hates her so much!

*The advice to report to the police, and "do everything right" legally is probably VERY important!*

Me, too, I am a big animal lover, and try to contribute to the struggle against all kinds of cruelty and oppression. I love my animals so much, that I prefer to kill them myself when the time comes. In the friendliest way I can figure out. The 17-year-old should learn so much, as that we all get born, we live for a while, and we die. That is the only really certain thing about this life, that it will come to an end, wether we believe in a next life or not. The difference lies in what we do during our lives. I am sure her grand parents understand this, but I am not so sure if the self-righteous girl will ever understand it...

With curtesy to the grand parents, /Trollmor, Sweden


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks for all the advice guys, unfortunately the police around here are trash and take forever to respond to cases of animal endangerment or neglect. There was one case that involved someone beating and starving their dog that lead to the poor things death because it took then over a week to care enough about the poor thing to finally go out and look at the situation.

They probably won't give two goat pellets about some "stupid rabbits". I've given up on getting any of the 20 rabbits that went missing back and instead have set my mind to fortifying my pens and cages. Buying sturdy locks and materials that won't be easily cut through. I got a chance to look at the girl's phone and it looks like she has befriended a radical group on fb. These people are currently in possession of the bulk of my missing animals.

And it looks like they plan on raiding again since they have my address and everything. (headsmash)



Trollmor said:


> Oioioi, what sweeties! Long hair?
> 
> Hate your animals? I begin to suspect that girl is thinking a lot when by herself, making up things, and then really believe what she has made up. Some half deaf and mentally sick persons I know, do the same, much to the bewildering of their friends. Very good you have a good contact with the granny and grandpa!
> 
> ...


As for the rabbits they are just mutts, I suspect either angora or some other kind of wooly breed in their somewhere. Been getting a lot like this one lately since I have been lonebreeding for the Vienna gene (causes blue eyed rabbits with white markings with one copy of the gene for those who don't know what it is and blue eyed rabbits that are snowy white with two copies)


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am sorry for your predicament. Do you have security cameras for your house and pens? I worry that they radicals may harm you .


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, here they are known to keep people awake by banging on the walls at night ...

Among other activities.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Just now read this thread and YIKES! What an ordeal! It doesn't matter that the police don't care about animal endangerment. That is not the issue. Theft is the issue. File a stolen property report, not an animal cruelty report. You may find the police are more willing to respond when dollar amounts are involved. You may also find that your officers (who apparently don't care about animal cruelty) care very much about the activities of so-called "animal rights activists". File a police report right away. It's important to have some legal record so you can protect yourself.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Damfino said:


> Just now read this thread and YIKES! What an ordeal! It doesn't matter that the police don't care about animal endangerment. That is not the issue. Theft is the issue. File a stolen property report, not an animal cruelty report. You may find the police are more willing to respond when dollar amounts are involved. You may also find that your officers (who apparently don't care about animal cruelty) care very much about the activities of so-called "animal rights activists". File a police report right away. It's important to have some legal record so you can protect yourself.


:up:Wwhat we were trying to say, but didn't. You, as usual, put it in clear concise verbage.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

if other people have your address and it is a threat i would put this sign up (it may scare them off) 
Something a little more settle
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...hUKEwj0jvLkv7HfAhWF54MKHTU1B3kQ9aACCEA&adurl=

or something that will for sure keep them away
https://www.mysecuritysign.com/viol...P22pkWvDwzQvFY4hpaVcHBceay7bunEBoCK24QAvD_BwE

i am so sorry about this. Hopefully this will blow over soon


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Good idea!


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## JearDOE Ranch (Aug 23, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> (And please, do not suggest feeding the coyotes with live animals! That is done too often here...)


I meant no ill will towards the animals. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my anger. I meant the teenagers ignorance would cause the poor animals more harm by setting them free.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Damfino said:


> Theft is the issue. File a stolen property report, not an animal cruelty report.


This is what we were saying. And to not keep her on the property to continue theft and destruction of property.
Our police are not great on touchy-feely stuff either. They do respond to property rights, and they do respond to trespass.


JearDOE Ranch said:


> I meant the teenagers ignorance would cause the poor animals more harm by setting them free.


This is how I took what you said. You said it just fine.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

I agree that if police has no feelings towards live animals, then _*protect* yourself and your remaining animals by filing *theft* and *trespass*_!


JearDOE Ranch said:


> I meant no ill will towards the animals. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my anger. I meant the teenagers ignorance would cause the poor animals more harm by setting them free.


Sorry I misunderstood. Main thing we agree!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Can't file trespass now since the girl was allowed to stay longer, When you say, "You can stay until..." then it isn't a trespass for her to be there... That's why I said, have the police escort her off the premises after you file your police report.

Police are going to figure it wasn't really a big deal. And you can't really blame them for that. You can probably blame them for other things...

Can you temporarily move your animals off your farm? That might foil future criminal behaviour, that and you being super vigilant and calling the police at every trespass in the future.

If you do find a friend to take your animals temporarily, please be honest about why, they have a right to know what they may be getting themselves into. And please do be super secret about it. Your animals should simply disappear.

This has escalated into you having to deal with a criminal organization. You should take this seriously now.

I'm sorry. 

How are your kits doing? Is your older breeder still mothering them? What a blessing that will be. Still needing to feed them is far better than having to completely mother them.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Sorry for not responding, been a busy bee and trying to get everything fortified. Neighbors heard about my issues and one of them that is big on hunting loaned me some spare trail cams to put up in good view points on my property. One in the rabbit area and so on.

Also it turns out I have a retiring cop as a neighbor also, we are on really good terms with each other. (we had a little trading system going, my milk, eggs, and rabbit for fruits and veggies from his garden as I do not have a green thumb) And how I didn't know he was a cop til now is beyond me. He called in a favor and helped me through the right hoops to make reports and such. There is hope of getting my stolen animals back now.



mariarose said:


> Can't file trespass now since the girl was allowed to stay longer, When you say, "You can stay until..." then it isn't a trespass for her to be there... That's why I said, have the police escort her off the premises after you file your police report.
> 
> Police are going to figure it wasn't really a big deal. And you can't really blame them for that. You can probably blame them for other things...
> 
> ...


The cop I mentioned said I could build a temporary pen on his property near his house for the goats. I might be able to set up an area for the chickens there as well. The rabbits are a no go as that would require moving the caging. I'll just have to make sure they are locked up extra tight.

As for the kits and their foster mom they are doing good, moved her and them inside so I can keep a better eye on them. She cleans them after every nursing and gets grumpy with me if I reach in to handle them. Unfortunately I lost 2 of the 8, they just weren't as harty as their siblings.


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## 15WildTurkey (Apr 13, 2015)

I’m sorry you are in the middle of this mess. No good deed.....
Silver linings being such, it’s great to get to know your neighbors better. 
I would seriously think about taking him up on his offer.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

My big cheers for that neighbor of yours!!! (clap)(clap)(clap)(highfive)(highfive)


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am glad you have such helpful neighbors, and I hope that the radicals just forget about you.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> I am glad you have such helpful neighbors, and I hope that the radicals just forget about you.


Thank you for reminding me to post an update here. Now that I am going through the right hoops and with the threat of legal action backing me, the rescue that had my rabbits (I say had because they already adopted them out or so they say) is trying to cover their behinds and find a way to "appease me". I want my animals back, they really aren't good pet quality animals. One of the does they had is very aggressive, something wrong with her neurologically. From the moment her eyes opened she was trying to take chunks out of your hands and I'm terrified that the rescue may have pawned her off onto a family with young children where she can cause major damage. I had to wear cut resistant gloves while handling her! Which shocks me that these idiots were able to take off with her in the first place.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I've adopted from rescue organizations (not radical groups though) in the past and have always paid an adoption or rehoming fee. If they charged a fee, maybe monetary compensation could be in order. In my view of things they received stolen goods and there are legal consequent for that type of thing. Not knowing the goods were stolen isn't always an excuse under the law against returning the goods or reimbursement of cost to the rightful owner.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

BlackCat said:


> Thank you for reminding me to post an update here. Now that I am going through the right hoops and with the threat of legal action backing me, the rescue that had my rabbits (I say had because they already adopted them out or so they say) is trying to cover their behinds and find a way to "appease me". I want my animals back, they really aren't good pet quality animals. One of the does they had is very aggressive, something wrong with her neurologically. From the moment her eyes opened she was trying to take chunks out of your hands and I'm terrified that the rescue may have pawned her off onto a family with young children where she can cause major damage. I had to wear cut resistant gloves while handling her! Which shocks me that these idiots were able to take off with her in the first place.


Make very sure they have not spayed the does before takin them back if you get any.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

NigerianNewbie said:


> I've adopted from rescue organizations (not radical groups though) in the past and have always paid an adoption or rehoming fee. If they charged a fee, maybe monetary compensation could be in order. In my view of things they received stolen goods and there are legal consequent for that type of thing. Not knowing the goods were stolen isn't always an excuse under the law against returning the goods or reimbursement of cost to the rightful owner.


Oh they were made full aware that these were stolen goods before rehoming them.


Sfgwife said:


> Make very sure they have not spayed the does before takin them back if you get any.


I don't think they had time do spay them but I will definitely look them over to be sure.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Spay? =sterlilize?


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Correct, spay= sterilize

I managed to track down 4 of the 5 yesterday. Turns out they were adopted out to some local families. 3/4 were happy to return them once they knee they were stolen the 4th home was reluctant and they did have the psycho female of mine. They thought they could rehabilitate her and I must have "abused her". They eventually gave her up though and I tossed her in the cage.

Non were going to be bred so I am butchering as soon as we get home. As I do not have the space to quarantine at the moment and I have no clue what they could have been exposed to. Better safe then sorry especially with RHVD 1 & 2 floating around as a major threat right now.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Spay? =sterlilize?


Yes.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Trollmor said:


> Spay? =sterlilize?


To prevent future confusion, "Spay" is what we say for females, "Neuter" and "Castrate" is what we say for males. "Fix" we say for both sexes. All of those mean to make unable to breed.
"Sterile" can mean made unable to breed, but it can also mean there is something already preventing (naturally) the ability to breed. More commonly, the word used for the normal inability to breed is "Infertile".


BlackCat said:


> Better safe then sorry especially with RHVD 1 & 2 floating around as a major threat right now.


Sad. And wise. And also sad.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad you got some of your rabbits back.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks for the language info! I learn slowly, but steadily!

Yes, much better safe than sorry! Good you found the biting one, could have been awkward if she had bitten them, though I personally would have felt tempted to challenge them "You try to tame her!" when they said like that!

You would have butchered those five anyway, if I got you right. Personally, I take them directly from the pen to the slaughter place, to make it as close to normality as possible for them. It is too late, but that routine would have made it impossible for the 17-year-old to know which ones you were going to kill. (Which is the saddest work with animals, I know!)


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Trollmor said:


> Thanks for the language info! I learn slowly, but steadily!
> 
> Yes, much better safe than sorry! Good you found the biting one, could have been awkward if she had bitten them, though I personally would have felt tempted to challenge them "You try to tame her!" when they said like that!
> 
> You would have butchered those five anyway, if I got you right. Personally, I take them directly from the pen to the slaughter place, to make it as close to normality as possible for them. It is too late, but that routine would have made it impossible for the 17-year-old to know which ones you were going to kill. (Which is the saddest work with animals, I know!)


Yes they would have been butchered regardless, I butcher at home in a special set up near the house. She would have known which ones were going to go to butcher anyways as they get put into separate cages from the rest of the herd. Especially if it's 2-3 litters I had combined in a colony like setting just for growing out a bit more. I tend to butcher them closer to 4 months old as that is the earliest a pelt can successfully be tanned without it ripping in my opinion.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Aha, you have too many to be able tell them apart in the pen, OK. For all other details, I think you and me are very similar in thinking and doing.  You also prepare the pelts yourself?


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Been playing around with it, most of my pelts are still saved in the deep freezer and haven't really tanned yet. Just if I skin before 16wks or 4 months the pelts tend to rip and tear during the process


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Jupp, can be tricky with thin skins. A special part of the thread about taking care of goats? (I promise I cannot keep all those things in my mind, that should go in there under various headlines.)

Which of all possible techniques do you prefer?


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

There is a salt and alum one I used on a few pelts (not favorites thankfully) that I think I either got the ratio wrong or left them in to long and lost all the fur. Made decent leather though.


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## BlackCat (Aug 3, 2017)

Sad update, I just lost all 7 of the baby rabbits I was hand rearing. They were looking good them their conditions went downhill fast and I lost one by one all morning


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost them.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

On no, so very sad this happened to you and the babes.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

:tears: And angry, too, it would not have been if "someone" had kept her dirty fingers in check!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So sorry. I know how hard it is to raise baby rabbits. They have a very low survival rate when hand raised. We experienced this first hand.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@BlackCat I hope your little slice of paradise has returned to a happy place for you after all this and you aren't suffering too many repercussions from all the chaos. It really was nice of your to try to help another human....sigh


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry.


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