# Breeding does to a stunted buck?



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I went and picked up my Nigerian buck for the year. I have 2 minis, F1 Mini nubian, and a F3 Mini-LaMancha. As well as a purebred Nigerian dwarf doe. So I have been texting back and forth with someone. Found a buck that I liked. I made the mistake of not seeing him in person before I bought him. And seriously, looking at his picture you would think he is a normal sized buck

Looks like your normal buck, right? Wrong.














He is absolutely tiny. Regardless not the smallest goat I have ever seen. I see at the fair, a fairly large number of pygmys, and Nigerians, same size or smaller than him. Breeder let me know right off the bat that he is "smaller than normal" it wasn't until I drove 1 and a 1/2 hour to go pick him up that I saw how small he really is. She told me know that he and his 2 sisters got coccidia when they were super young. They didn't have time to treat it until it got super bad. When they finally treated it, all of them ended up being severely stunted. He is over a year old and is probably no more than 12 inches at the withers! Seems completely healthy otherwise. Running a fecal this weak. Copper bolus this week. Bo-Se this week. Eye color is wonderful, behavior is normal. I was told he tries to breed anything, and everything. He is showing some buck behaviors, but no interest in breeding yet.

My question is,
Do you think I can still allow him to breed my does? Does anyone think he would even be successful? Would it just be better to sell him off and find ANOTHER new buck? If it wasn't for the amount of time it took me to drive up there, I don't think I would have gotten him, but since I have him those are my questions. All their other animals looked very healthy. Most were still a lot smaller than mine(mine are fairly large though) so I do think he is also slightly smaller just in genetics as well, and coccidia certainly didn't help him! Thank you for any, and all help!


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

I’ve had a Nigerian dwarf breed a full sized Nubian. It’s definitely possible! I would make sure he hits every other quality I want in him, plus some. I think it would also depend on why you’re breeding, If it’s specifically for good genetics, I would consider selling him.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

He has actually got some good genetics behind him. His dam, despite her smaller size, had a really good udder. Teats were placed perfectly, attachment was good, her teats were just ever so slightly smaller than what I normally like but I can get past that. I also do believe his traits should compliment and improve my minis faults. All the other kids there were normal sized and looked great. I think if he can do the deed I can get some decent kids out of him. I'm just not sure if being stunted messes with their fertility.


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I don't think the stunted growth will effect his fertility. I got a weanling buck last year who was small, but who I figured was just from slow-growing lines. It wasn't until my 4 month-old kids escaped and went to visit him and I saw them side by side that I realized HOW small he was (he was 7 months old at the time, and smaller than my 4 month-olds!) I had him tested and he came back positive for high levels of coccidia. I treated him, and he is growing, but he's still small. I used him anyway last fall. I think he was 9 or 10 months old at the time, and still pretty tiny. The doe he bred gave me quads this spring, so I can't complain about his fertility! The only issue I ran into was that he needed assistance getting her bred in the first place- his size and lack of experience didn't impress my doe much, and she was more interested in flirting with the older buck in the next pen


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

That is great to hear! I am fully prepared for assisting the little guy. I plan to dig a hole to put the does into so he can reach them easier :lolgoat:

Just for size comparison. This is him next to a 10 day old boer/nubian buckling from a set of quads. The kid to the left of him weighed 7lbs new born, probably 12-15lbs now.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I think things will work out for you. If the kids that are thrown are really small, that is what the people who want pet goats prefer. My wife would love a wether or doe that is small statured like your new buck.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If your breeding schedule can afford it, I would test first before letting him sire lots of kids. If the kids he produces are unhealthy, smaller than average, not growing, or cocci susceptible, I wouldn't keep breeding him.

It's your choice if you want to even try it -- but if you ask me those aren't bloodlines I would want to pass down. But I also wouldn't want him to end up on the meat market. Your choice, completely. 

I would get a fecal done on him. Check his FAMACHA's.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

As said you might have to step In on helping him but he should be fine! I bought a very very stunted buck before and he got extras for quite awhile and at his full grown size he wasn’t that bad! I also have a doe that was my first case of cocci (and when I learned cocci doesn’t always show the runs) she is probably still one of my shorter does but you don’t look at her and say OMG she’s a runt! 
He looks very bright eyed and healthy in the picture so hopefully he will be fine libido wise.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Most of our small breeds of every domesticated species came about because of stunting due to environmental pressures. That's how we got the Dwarf breeds of goats, for instance. And look at ANYTHING that came from the Shetland Islands! (Pony, Sheep, Collie, to name a few.) Stunting does not in and of itself cause infertility.

Now, the fact that THIS family was horribly affected by cocci and all the other goats are normal and healthy, even though presumably they had the same environment, could indicate a genetic weakness when it comes to parasite tolerance.

Why was this family of goats so horribly affected if everyone else is fine?

Now, I own to having parasite tolerance being a major culling consideration, and people who raise their herd members differently than I do may consider this not an issue.

So it's up to you, but that is my takeaway from this.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Most of our small breeds of every domesticated species came about because of stunting due to environmental pressures. That's how we got the Dwarf breeds of goats, for instance. And look at ANYTHING that came from the Shetland Islands! (Pony, Sheep, Collie, to name a few.) Stunting does not in and of itself cause infertility.
> 
> Now, the fact that THIS family was horribly affected by cocci and all the other goats are normal and healthy, even though presumably they had the same environment, could indicate a genetic weakness when it comes to parasite tolerance.
> 
> ...


Yes, I should have mentioned that. My reason for not wanting to breed him if he were mine is not due to size. It is due to parasite susceptibility.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Being stunted doesn't stop him from producing good kids. If he has good genetics going for him.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I should say, one of my best Boer does that I recently sold was very stunted. I knew why it happened and wasn't bothered at all. Stunting happens... Causes differ...


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Okay. From breeder.
"We bought his mother as a bred doe. She gave birth to the trips. At the time we are guessing she also had coccidia. We didn't know anything about goats at the time so we think she also gave it to all of her babies. It wasn't until they were 4 months old about 5 months after we bought the doe that hey had coccidia. We treated and after that he just never grew"

I then asked about their other goats, if they came from the same place.

"All our other goats were bought starting 2 months after the mom had her babies. We actually just picked up a few more from oregon recently. We have learned now and I hope we have no more stunted babies"

So from what I gathered from that is they bought a pregnant doe as their first ever goat. She had coccidia, she kidded, kids got coccidia bad but they didn't treat until kids were 4 month old and ended up with runty, stunted kids.



NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If your breeding schedule can afford it, I would test first before letting him sire lots of kids. If the kids he produces are unhealthy, smaller than average, not growing, or cocci susceptible, I wouldn't keep breeding him.


This is exactly what I was thinking to do. I am planning on breeding the Nigerian doe. She has a majorly small udder so, until I get a doe kid from her and see if that her udder also remains small, all her kid go as wethers or under a no breeding contract. I am also thinking of breeding the mini mancha since it is her first freshening and unless I get a stellar doe(I'll keep myself) I like to wait until the second freshening before I sell as breeding stock if I like what is being thrown. Worst-case scenario kids end up stunted/small, coccidia prone, or not good quality I think I will remove him from any sort of breeding program (likely having a vet castrate him) sell kids under a no breeding contract if they are does, or whethers if they are buck, and move onto a new buck. But if everything works out I should have some really nice kids being born(and as a bonus he only eats half what a normal buck would!)

The little guy is starting to act nicr and bucky now. So waiting on CIDRs and will see what November/december brings.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

So this probably isn't a case of poor immune system. Just a case of a new goat owner not knowing. At least they learned and are taking better steps now.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes, I should have mentioned that. My reason for not wanting to breed him if he were mine is not due to size. It is due to parasite susceptibility.


I agree. It stood out to me that all three siblings got sick.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

At least the breeder is being honest with you! 
Just give him good nutrition, keep an eye on any parasite problems (run frequent fecals, check FAMACHA etc) and he should breed ok.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I'll be taking some poo in for a fecal when the vet opens on monday. His FAMACHA is really good deep pink. Embarrassed to say it looks better than most my goats right now. They became resistant to my previous wormer, and I didn't realize they had a heavy worm load until a few weeks ago. They are doing great now though, fecal on Friday showed a MUCH lower EPG count, and color is coming back.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SandyNubians said:


> I'll be taking some poo in for a fecal when the vet opens on monday. His FAMACHA is really good deep pink. Embarrassed to say it looks better than most my goats right now. They became resistant to my previous wormer, and I didn't realize they had a heavy worm load until a few weeks ago. They are doing great now though, fecal on Friday showed a MUCH lower EPG count, and color is coming back.


What did you treat yours with? I'm always interested to hear about chemical resistances. We deworm naturally.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I was using safeguard before. It worked for about a year. Never had resistance issues. Honestly, I am seriously thinking about switching to herbal, or EO deworming. I don't think I have ever heard of resistance to that so far.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SandyNubians said:


> I was using safeguard before. It worked for about a year. Never had resistance issues. Honestly, I am seriously thinking about switching to herbal, or EO deworming. I don't think I have ever heard of resistance to that so far.


Resistance, no. Ineffectiveness, yes. For instance, barber pole is not able to be treated well enough using only herbs for me. Only when I use essential oils and herbs together do I see that change in lid color I want. There are also herb brands that are better than others, and essential oils for specific things.

Safeguard has been ineffective in most areas for a while but for a few worms.

For herbal and EO deworming, I use Fir Meadow LLC's GI Soother (cocci, barber pole, and other gastrointestinal parasites) and DWormA, an overall dewormer similar to other herbal wormers. I think Land of Havilah's Parasite Formula is a superior formula though, and I would recommend that with essential oils before I would recommend Fir Meadow's. And I rarely ever recommend Molly's herbals. If you compare ingredients, Molly's has next to nothing in it. LOH has everything that DWormA and GI Soother have and more.

The EO's you choose are also "essential" (hehe ) I use wild orange very often, as it is a specifically good one for barber pole. The herbs have taken care of everything else for us, just not BP as well, though they supported the goats enough that it never got out of hand. Not until our copper deficiencies changed the game so nothing else mattered.

I also use lemongrass, oregano, DigestZen by DoTerra, and thyme oil, very often. And at least once a week I use clove oil.

But I do want to point out that mineral deficiencies make for a much more difficult worm season... that is what I have had to focus on recently.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Sade guard has worked well here. Not many people have goats, and hardly anyone used that wormer, it was shown in the fecals I did to be effective. When I got my fecals back for worm loads I dewormed with it again, but this time was no difference in the EPG. So, for now anyway, I am using ivermectin which seems to work for now, but I think switching to Herbal/EO may be a better choice. That way if I ever do need a chemical dewormer for any reason, I am not left with super worms and nothing I can use to eradicate them. Which ones would you recommend starting out with for the herbal dewormers? My most common worm I am fighting with now is barber pole worms. Do you think the Land of havilahs one would work best (with the wild orange EO)?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

So you did not get to see his sire at all?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SandyNubians said:


> Sade guard has worked well here. Not many people have goats, and hardly anyone used that wormer, it was shown in the fecals I did to be effective. When I got my fecals back for worm loads I dewormed with it again, but this time was no difference in the EPG. So, for now anyway, I am using ivermectin which seems to work for now, but I think switching to Herbal/EO may be a better choice. That way if I ever do need a chemical dewormer for any reason, I am not left with super worms and nothing I can use to eradicate them. Which ones would you recommend starting out with for the herbal dewormers? My most common worm I am fighting with now is barber pole worms. Do you think the Land of havilahs one would work best (with the wild orange EO)?


I would recommend land of Havilah's. And for the essential oils I would do wild orange, lemongrass, oregano, DigestZen, and then clove and thyme. But the first 4 are the most important to me for barber pole. All DoTerra brand. I recommend DoTerra oils for internal use.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

SandyNubians said:


> Sade guard has worked well here. Not many people have goats, and hardly anyone used that wormer, it was shown in the fecals I did to be effective. When I got my fecals back for worm loads I dewormed with it again, but this time was no difference in the EPG. So, for now anyway, I am using ivermectin which seems to work for now, but I think switching to Herbal/EO may be a better choice. That way if I ever do need a chemical dewormer for any reason, I am not left with super worms and nothing I can use to eradicate them. Which ones would you recommend starting out with for the herbal dewormers? My most common worm I am fighting with now is barber pole worms. Do you think the Land of havilahs one would work best (with the wild orange EO)?


@happybleats has a thread about EOs that has been ongoing for years, where she introduced that EO blend that @NigerianDwarfOwner707 is referencing.
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/using-essential-oils-to-worm.188848/


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> @happybleats has a thread about EOs that has been ongoing for years, where she introduced that EO blend that @NigerianDwarfOwner707 is referencing.
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/using-essential-oils-to-worm.188848/


Thank you! I'll go check it out!


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> So you did not get to see his sire at all?


They gave me a picture. Looks normal but this buck also does so, I guess maybe not? Looks very healthy, looks full sized but I've learned pictures can be deceiving.


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## jodane (Apr 18, 2017)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> R
> The EO's you choose are also "essential" (hehe ) I use wild orange very often, as it is a specifically good one for barber pole. The herbs have taken care of everything else for us, just not BP as well, though they supported the goats enough that it never got out of hand. Not until our copper deficiencies changed the game so nothing else mattered.
> 
> I also use lemongrass, oregano, DigestZen by DoTerra, and thyme oil, very often. And at least once a week I use clove oil..


SO when you use these EO's how much do you use, how often do you use them along with the herbal dewormers?


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

After you posted about your new buck being 12 inches at the withers, I got curious enough to check our smallest. Kate is 16 inches at the withers at 15 months.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I guess some just have small genetics. Seeing him though, he looks like my does 12-week old kids! All the NDs I've had have always been 19in at the withers or more, by 1 year old. I'll need to go and measure him, I'd have to say he is 11 or 12 inches at the withers though.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

jodane said:


> SO when you use these EO's how much do you use, how often do you use them along with the herbal dewormers?


I have to deworm very often. If I don't FAMACHA's go down. Our wet weather makes deworming have to be done more often. MUCH MORE OFTEN. When I started with EO's, I did it for 3 days straight. 3-4 days in a row is treatment dosing, once a week is maintenance. I rotate the oils I give, I choose from 4+ oils and pretty much give an oil every day for a week, instead of all at once. For instance, I use Wild Orange, Lemongrass, and DigestZen, quite often. Wild orange daily for the most part, lemongrass and digestzen every other day usually. Then I give oregano for 3 days on 4 days off, or every couple days. Thyme oil every two days. Clove oil once a week. I do things differently than most do, and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because I have to keep a chart to keep track of everything. Once or a couple times a week is best. The concern with oregano and clove is that they are very strong oils, so in my opinion, the stomach requires a break from them (that's why there's a 3 days on 4 days off thing).

Now that I've said all that, an average regimen to follow is clove oil, digestzen from DoTerra, lemongrass, wild orange, oregano, thyme. Saw much better results with the addition of thyme. Anyway, I would give these oils for 3 days on 4 days off, or once a week -- depending on how severe your parasite situation is and which ones you are targeting.

Now herbs. I use Fir Meadow's two formulas, these are for two different kinds of worms. I probably give GI Soother daily, which is for Barber Pole. DWormA, an overall dewormer, every other day in worm season probably. Again, weekly is fine as a minimum, GI Soother is said to give every day that it rains -- and that's almost every day here... so you can see how on top of things I really have to be. AT LEAST weekly though, for the herbs.

Dosing. Herb dosing is by weight, the brand you choose will give you the directions. I have heard for every 50lb you add 1 drop of EOs. So 50 until 100 is 1 drop, above 100 would be 2 and so on. I use 1 drop of each oil.

Hopefully that helps without sounding extremely confusing!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Personally I am surprised the previous people sold him intact. I dont believe any male should stay intact unless I am 100% comfortable that they will represent my farm well (even if im not the original breeder) there are a ton of bucks out there who are more deserving of the title of herd sire and being stunted is not a trait I would consider desirable regardless of the circumstances. 
I agree with everyone's advise and hope for the best for your new buck.


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## jodane (Apr 18, 2017)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I have to deworm very often.
> Now that I've said all that, an average regimen to follow is clove oil, digestzen from DoTerra, lemongrass, wild orange, oregano, thyme. Saw much better results with the addition of thyme. Anyway, I would give these oils for 3 days on 4 days off, or once a week -- depending on how severe your parasite situation is and which ones you are targeting.
> 
> so you can see how on top of things I really have to be. AT LEAST weekly though, for the herbs.
> ...


Wow! that's a very complicated methodology. I commend you for keeping on top of this. I've been thinking about going more natural, but maybe I need to rethink this. Should we start another thread about natural deworming and get other people's regimes? Sorry about co-opting this thread to talk about natural deworming but it seemed to fit into the thread at the time.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> @happybleats has a thread about EOs that has been ongoing for years, where she introduced that EO blend that @NigerianDwarfOwner707 is referencing.
> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/using-essential-oils-to-worm.188848/


There is a thread here I believe you can ask your questions at.



jodane said:


> Sorry about co-opting this thread to talk about natural deworming but it seemed to fit into the thread at the time


No worries at all! Was loving the info. Learning about it all myself!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

jodane said:


> Wow! that's a very complicated methodology. I commend you for keeping on top of this. I've been thinking about going more natural, but maybe I need to rethink this. Should we start another thread about natural deworming and get other people's regimes? Sorry about co-opting this thread to talk about natural deworming but it seemed to fit into the thread at the time.


Goodness, my regimen is what we call "extra" LOL. This is simply for barber pole worm. Every other worm is very easily combatted by once weekly treatments.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Update on the little guy. He is doing wonderful. He is starting to act like a nice little buck now. Spraying himself, fighting the young bucks, flirting with the girls, etc. My CIDRs are arriving today, and I have got everything I need from the vet. Does have been getting flushed, wormed, copper boluses,Bo-Se, and they are ready to go. I was gonna try herbal/EO worming on the buck, I decided to just use Ivermectin for now. I've had some bank issues recently, so going to be a couple weeks before I can order everything to try that and I want everyone taken care of before I pull CIDRs in the next 8-14 days. Time will tell if he can do his job. I am going to try and breed him to 3 does. 2 will be FF and one will be a 3rd Freshener, however due to an issue with only producing 10oz of milk(5oz twice a day) none of her kids are sold for breeding until I find out if this is just an issue from something that happened on her FF or if that's how big her udder and future doelings udders will be. So there should be a decent range of kids, and should be enough for me to tell if all the kids from 3 does are healthy growing, and have normal and not low parasite resistance. We will see what happens in the next 2 weeks, and in 6 weeks will see if he successfully got the girls pregnant.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Please, do remember to come back and update with results. I find breeding plans fascinating. I always have.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I would also like to know how he does. Just out of curiosity. It is just so intriguing to be breeding a buck that small.
Also out of curiosity. How big do you think he will be at 3 years old? Just based on your experience with goats.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> How big do you think he will be at 3 years old? Just based on your experience with goats.


Me? Psh, heck if I'd know! Never owned one this small. As I said, I've seen some NDs his size at the fair. All registered/shown animals(they were all younger than 1 year though) so maybe I just have huge ND. If I'm lucky he will start to grow. All my NDs have always been minimum of 19in to the withers. Tallest is 34in. Still haven't measured him yet(can't find my tape)


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

So, I'll be pulling Cidrs on either the 16th or 18th and then one doe every 2 days. However, I did have a doe come into heat naturally yesterday. Very strong heat and was bugging all the other does. I took advantage of this and put the little guy in with her. She had kids 4 months ago but is in really good condition(aside from her hooves which im working on) so I really don't think it will be a huge problem if she got bred. The little guy was interested in her but just got tossed around like a ragdoll by the doe. He chased her for a bit, but whenever she would try to mount him or fight him, he ran away cowering and didn't try again. He got thrown a good couple of feet threw the air by her and he had no more interest. I tried hooking her to a fence but he was terrified and wouldn't come near her. That got me worried that I may pull the does with CIDRs in them, and end up with no one getting bred. Then I would have wasted Time, Money, and CIDRs for nothing. So I chickened out and found another buck. Not anything special, not super, super nice, but not a bad buck. :shrug: if my guy wants to breed her, im all for that and for sure will let him, but if he doesn't I'll have this backup stud for 2 weeks before he goes home. The back up is also 1yo, not proven, but he is normal sized ND, and they think he will do the job, so I am counting on him! Picture is of him next to the doe in heat, before he got tossed and scared of her.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

oh my gosh that photos - the size difference! it's crazy


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK, I'd be cautious. Because you really can make a buck permanently frightened of breeding.

In the wild, the dominant buck really does control who he gets, when. BECAUSE the does choose who they want and it is always the dominant buck. Bucklings are not frightened, they stand back, watch, and learn. In the breeding process of goats, the does are the ones arranging who they want.

Your doe wants someone, but she doesn't want that lil pipsqueak...

So there is a danger of permanent fear. You may have to tie her so severely that he is no longer afraid of her. OR you can just forget about breeding altogether until he is a more mature buck on his own. If he becomes permanently afraid then he may never breed.

Does have a lot more to do with who gets to breed than we want to admit. This isn't like chickens at all.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

mariarose said:


> OK, I'd be cautious. Because you really can make a buck permanently frightened of breeding.
> 
> In the wild, the dominant buck really does control who he gets, when. BECAUSE the does choose who they want and it is always the dominant buck. Bucklings are not frightened, they stand back, watch, and learn. In the breeding process of goats, the does are the ones arranging who they want.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info. He is most definitely still interested in breeding. But only the young wethers and the does who are not aggressive with him. That doe is super aggressive, to begin with. Even more so when in heat. I just got her a few weeks ago, but owned her for about a year a few years ago. Do you think it would be a good idea to keep the stud buck several acres away? Completely out of sight and scent. Think that would work? I want this guy to breed them, I am rooting for him, but definitely think I need a back up just in case. I could easily set up a temp pen in my neighbor's field about 6 acres away from the end of their pastures. My neighbor has no problem with this and has allowed me to do it before(of course I would check with her again to be sure) or I could set him up in the front yard. Not super far away, but they definitely wouldn't be able to see him and probably wouldn't be able to smell him (about an acre away from where they are turned out during the day) that way they won't even know he is here. If he(little buck) doesn't breed them, and I feel they are going out of heat I'll simply walk them over to the other pen with the stud.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd keep your lil guy with any big bucks so's he gets all the macho stank on him he can, and then when she be in "I cain't take no mo' urges" mode,(that's usually day 2) tie her so tight she can't hurt him as he 'bliges her.

And then I'd offer her the same way the mornin' of day 3.

This way, the job MAY get done by the buckling of your choice, and he may not be scarred forever by the 'speriance of his short life.

Mature Does are something, I tell you what...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Really good advice. :up:


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

He is a good looking buck. A shame that he is so much smaller than your doe.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Well I got the stud yesterday. Nice buck. I ended up passing on the first one I was going to get cause he wasn't proven, was about an hour away, and was a pygmy Nigerian mix. I got a msg last afternoon about someone only 15mins away with a reg. buck who was proven. They brought him over around 9pm, and I introduced some of the does and the little guy to him. Instantly little peewee went full buck mode. All the does were running from him, and his flirting rather than fighting him. The mini-nubian doe went into heat this morning :shrug: im assuming its false. She still had her cidr in and it hasn't even been 12hrs since I got the buck. He(stud) bred her successfully so I gave her the hormones. Time will tell if she takes. I will pull the NDs cidr tomorrow afternoon and I will try to breed the little guy to her.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

LOLOL!!!!

Goats will turn everything you know into pretzel shapes...


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Woo! Pulled sas's CIDR yesterday evening as my vet said out of season cidrs need to be less time than if it were breeding season. She was in noticeable heat about 2 hours ago. Little peewee tagged her! Didn't even need help. She is my smallest doe though. Mr.Stud also tagged her when I put her back in the main pen and he knocked the gate down when he got jealous of Peewee with "his" girl. I'll put her and peewee back together in an hour and let him get her another time. Hopefully, she takes with peewee, but I won't be terribly disappointed if she gets with the stud. I'll try peewee next year and hopefully, he is bigger. Pulled the last does CIDR this morning. Should have heat by tomorrow. I will try peewee again, but she a lot taller than sas so I may use mr stud if he can't get her.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Go Peewee! I always pull for the under dog, er goat. Lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Live went into heat this morning right on time. I brought her and peewee to a big tree root that has a nice little 4in drop. Put peewee on top of it and backed live up. He successfully got her 3 times. Maybe more, I left her with him for a few hours, but I backed her up and watched(nongoat people probably think im crazy(embarrassed)) to make sure he got it, 3 times. Just turned her in with Mr.stud a few minutes ago while she is still in heat, just as a precaution. She never did the hunching up thing all my goats do when they are bred so im not sure he got in far enough. Hoping the stud pushed some of peewees little wigglers further in her when he got her. Now the long 30 day wait, and then another 110+ day wait. If they take anyways. If they don't I do feel better now knowing the peewee can get the job done.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

SandyNubians said:


> Instantly little peewee went full buck mode


:what:------>:mrgoat:


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

mariarose said:


> :what:------>:mrgoat:


That made me laugh more than i should have (rofl)


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

SandyNubians said:


> So, I'll be pulling Cidrs on either the 16th or 18th and then one doe every 2 days. However, I did have a doe come into heat naturally yesterday. Very strong heat and was bugging all the other does. I took advantage of this and put the little guy in with her. She had kids 4 months ago but is in really good condition(aside from her hooves which im working on) so I really don't think it will be a huge problem if she got bred. The little guy was interested in her but just got tossed around like a ragdoll by the doe. He chased her for a bit, but whenever she would try to mount him or fight him, he ran away cowering and didn't try again. He got thrown a good couple of feet threw the air by her and he had no more interest. I tried hooking her to a fence but he was terrified and wouldn't come near her. That got me worried that I may pull the does with CIDRs in them, and end up with no one getting bred. Then I would have wasted Time, Money, and CIDRs for nothing. So I chickened out and found another buck. Not anything special, not super, super nice, but not a bad buck. :shrug: if my guy wants to breed her, im all for that and for sure will let him, but if he doesn't I'll have this backup stud for 2 weeks before he goes home. The back up is also 1yo, not proven, but he is normal sized ND, and they think he will do the job, so I am counting on him! Picture is of him next to the doe in heat, before he got tossed and scared of her.


Is this PeeWee and Meredith? They're a cute couple he is tiny in the picture.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

GoofyGoat said:


> Is this PeeWee and Meredith? They're a cute couple he is tiny in the picture.


That is! He has actually gotten bigger since I got him. He has grown maybe an inch or 2, and also put on 11lbs. Obviously the girls are bred so he definitely can get the job done. All bucklings will be wethered and all doelings will be kept so I can watch and make sure they aren't more susceptible to anything before I decide to sell, wether, or keep lil pee wee. Good thing about him, I can hardly tell he is here. He eats like 1/4 of a flake of hay a day. It's like owning a buck without feeding one, lol.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Bonus  
Since he's easy to feed and doesn't take up much room and he's adorable...he's a keeper


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