# Kidding Complications ~ What went wrong?



## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Well I've been up all night with my doe... I was so excited.... My 1st ever registered doe to kid and things did not go well =( Forgive the babbling... I'm so exhausted.. but I don't know WHAT went wrong.. what should I have done different... She had quads and only 2 survived.

3rd Freshener

Ligs has been gone for over 24 hours. Udder strutted. Baby talking. No signs of distress but things didn't seem right. She was clearly showing all the signs of pending labor... but she never seemed to progress... 

I started dosing her with CMPK . 24cc and then 12cc every hour.
An hour or 2 later I watched her have some steady mild contractions and then they stopped. She didn't seem in distress.... but very uncomfortable. She would lay down and pop right back up. 

She had a wild, stressed look on her face and just didn't seem right.

She had been streaming amber rope for a few hours...on and off... in little sections.. nothing steady. 

No pushing, no hard contractions.

I finally decided I needed to go in and check since things just didn't seem right.

Went in to find a kid in the birth canal. No water sac. Just a foot & nose! I had been sitting with her for 2 hours straight and never saw any water break! As soon as a went in she gave 2 good strong pushes and he shot out. Alive & healthy 2lb boy. (he was the biggest kid!)

Got the boy all cleaned up, dried, iodine on navel, nursed a few times. A good 15 minutes went by and no pushing so back in a went....

Found a bubble not very far in an a few strong pushes later out popped a girl. 1.9lbs and healthy. Got her dried & eating.... another 10-15 minutes go by and nothing... 

go back in to find a foot in the birth canal but nothing else. I go a little farther to try to figure it out and mom starts pushing SO hard. I could NOT get that kid to go back at all.. I spent a while pushing back while mom kept trying to pushing it forward. 10-15 minutes and I had to pull my hand out to readjust. When I did she pushed so hard the kid was litterer bent in 1/2 in the birth canal. I spent a LONG time trying to push that kid back in and reposition without any luck. When I took my hand out Mom gave a few hard pushes and delivered the kid bent in 1/2. Kid was totally broken everywhere! Obviously not alive. =/

Took a minute to walk away. I was stressed. Doe was stressed. I stepped outside the kidding pen to talk to my boyfriend (who had just woke up).. and he says .. she's pushing! 

I Turn around and out flies another kid. When it hit the ground the sac didn't break. I rush in and break the kid out, clear the mouth... no breathing.. pink tongue... i held her upside, supported her head and swung her .... so much goop came out of her mouth/lungs it was crazy! Had to repeat that several times. Got her airway clear and worked on her for a good 10 minutes...I tried so hard to get her to breath and she never did. Never saw her even try to take a single breath... Never saw her even move. 


SO.... Well over 36 hours since 1st signs of impending labor... 2 dead kids... 2 live kids...one very stressed doe & 1 very stressed human... i can't wrap my head around what went wrong... With 2 live kids this doe just never wanted to push until I went in! Then the last 2 dead kids she shot out on her own. She is just EXHAUSTED! She finally ate & drank but she is weak and sleeping now. I'm still giving CMPK. 

Partially a rant.. partially trying to figure out what went wrong and what I should have done differently...


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

The only thing I would have done differently is go in earlier -- after a half hour of no progress, in I go.

SO sorry. This does happen, it's so hard. You did nothing wrong at all :hug:


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I kept thinking I should go in.. but she wasn't in hard labor... She just didn't ever show signs of progressing... kids were not stuck.. she just wasn't PUSHING..

Probably because I'm so sleepy but it doesn't make since. Kids were so TINY for her they should have been easy to push....


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Sometimes they can be lazy pushers  So sorry.


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## FlyingFeetsFarm (Nov 28, 2012)

It's had to loose babies  I'm sorry. Its hard to know why she wasn't pushing. I almost always finger check my does when in labor, if they seem to be in labor for more than two hours but no water broken I go in. Sometimes its unnessisary but this year my doe Dixie did just about what yours did, she pawed, got up and down, I finally broke her water for her and still nothing, so I went in, her kids were super tangled and I was scared I was going to loose her because they were all in super horrible positions. Luckily I got them all out in time, she never really pushed either. If you see a goat laboring for more than a couple hours but no pushing it never hurts to check.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow that was one stressfull event for all of you!
What I have found is that when she does not push or have strong labor there is somebody in there who is either mal presented or has expired.
Yes you could have gone in earlier, but the outcome would have probably been the same, especially with the bent in half one.
So sorry.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dont think about the ones you lost..think about the ones you saved...Its a hard call whether to go in or wait...once your gut is screaming something is wrong then you act..but sometimes we wait hoping for a better outcome...sometimes you get one..sometimes you dont....you did a great job. Be sure to give mom Pen Q for five days since you had to invade her...keep up with calcium and watch her for signs of distress or fever. Add some electros to her water ( if she wont drink the electros try Molasses but not too much..it can cause runs) I would also give her B complex, worm her ( stress can cause worm increase) and of course lots of love and rest...


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks everyone.. I think it makes since now...

It seemed like for the longest time she was trying to position the kids... She was stretching and rubbing and rearranging..... Like she was holding off on pushing because she knew something wasn't right.

Just checked the mangled kid... His eyes were not fully formed? His eyes were very sunken in. Opening them he did not have formed eyes... Guess he was the problem...

Still sad I lost that doe. =/


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

You have learned a valuable lesson. I learned it early on also. Don't wait. When you see that "concerned" look on her face (and only you know your doe well enough to see what I'm saying), go in. I waited on Bambi for over an hour...watching her on the camera...I actually saw her look into the camera and say "help"! If that first kid is "hung up", for whatever reason, they are all at risk. When we are breeding miniature goats, we must be proactive in our approach to birthing. jmo

When you have your hand (arm) inside, you have to wait during the contraction, then as soon as it stops, rearrange, stop for the contraction (but don't pull your hand out), work some more.

I'm so sorry for your loss, we mourn, we move on. It's OK to cry a little bit...:grouphug:


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

First of all... you did a LOT of things right and you have two live babies to show for it. I know exactly how you feel. In my train wreck kidding I only ended up with one live baby. Without your help, they probably all would have perished.

I think there are a lot of factors that lead to these problem kiddings.

Having more than two in there is a for sure a factor. Sure you hear of lots of quads being born no problem etc., but no one should doubt it is a risk factor. There flat out isn't as much room for those babies to end up in the right position to come out. That and the added demands their growing bodies had on their Dam during pregnancy.

Too fat. Over conditioned. Whatever you want to call it. People like me that have fat does have more problems. Again it's a matter of room in that uterus.

Management. Starting before they are even bred. Selenium: Does that are deficient have problems kidding. Skyz lives in Texas and I don't think they have much of a problem with selenium there as in other states. Minerals. Calcium to phosphorus ratio can be a big deal in my opinion. If that ratio gets way out of wack, that can cause problems with pregnancies and kidding. A lady named Sue Reith wrote this article. I tried to follow it's advise this year and even though I had one bad kidding, my other kiddings went much better than last year.
http://kinne.net/hypocal2.htm

Enjoy and protect those two babies that made it. When you feel like it please send us some pics, Skyz.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Everyone has such wonderful advice.

I am so sorry for your loss, things happen beyond our control sometimes and you did nothing wrong.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

So much good advice. 

I'd like to say again, well done on doing a great job with a tough kidding! You did the best you could. 

As people have said, the only thing I would have done differently is go in earlier - and I only learnt that the hard way - mine ended up with a caesarian. 

Sometimes when things arent positioned right in there, they just wont progress to proper labour. They just stay in what seems like pre-labour, not in distress, just the pacing, murmuring etc. They dont show you that anything is wrong. 

The way I learnt this was with my most favourite doe in the world ever, Charlotte. First timer, had been in pre-labour for about 2 - 3 hrs, pacing, murmuring, etc. Never did show any more signs, never nested, sat down, pushed. I did not think anything was wrong. BUT I was running late to go to a cattle show and I didnt want to leave her, so I thought I would put my hand in and if I felt the kids, I would pull them to get it over and done with. Well I felt four front legs, twins coming together. Long story short, it ended up in a caesarian because as I manipulated them to try to deliver one, the other swung its head round with mouth open and ruptured her uterus. We ended up with two buck kids that ended up wethers, and Charlotte was put down 18 mths later from long term complications. 

I now know that if it doesnt seem right, if they dont progress to proper labour when you thought they should, go in and check. I never hesitate to go in and check now.


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