# Do you think it's fair?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok, I'd really love your opinions on this.

We were at a show yesterday. It was for youth/Jr. breeding goats, market wethers/does, and dairy.

It was a big show put on by the state. There were a a few breeder families with big, fancy goats - I know these people show at ABGA level, nice people so I am not knocking them in any way.
But other people who are like us <can't afford big fancy goats with big fancy feed bills lol> were even complaining when we were talking, they didn't think it was fair that these people with thousands of dollars in fancy show goats should be able to come into a youth show like this or small county fairs other than their own when most kids can't even afford to look at a quarter of the cost of goats like that, especially youth shows.
One person said if they want to show at that level, they need to stay at that level.

My kids feel this way as well. They said, how can we even compete with people/goats like that?' They were ready to leave after the first couple of classes with their goats, but I made them stick through it.
Now, I know my kids didn't have the best goats in the show, but I have to say, I do understand how they feel and their frustration.
I honestly, don't know how I feel about this, but I do know my kids said they refuse to go back to this particular show next year since the same people were pretty much winning everything.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Honestly, I understand that it is frustrating, but the point of a goat show is to bring your best. I am all for competition, and I had to take my knocks as a kid learning how to compete and be a good sport whether I won or lost. Sure it's not "fair", but life's not fair and it is good to learn sooner rather than later to handle an unfair hand with grace.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree with Farmer in a Dress.....I know it seems hard on kids, but it's the way it is. Money talks ...but it is still good for your kids to do their best and work with the goats...so that is what it is really about.
Besides, we all love your goats....and your kids are cute too


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree.. We have breeders here that take all the grands pretty much.. My mom is always like "why even go?!" But it's fun, and give you something to look at to breed up to slowly  

But I do understand where they are coming from.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I do understand. Doesn't matter what the animal is either. My vet's son likes to show pigs at the county fair. He has never won or even in the top 3. The big pig breeders kids always win. But he enjoys doing it so he just keeps showing.

No question that it is unfair but probably won't change.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

If you show to win, you will never have fun. I can understand your frustration, but I personally don't think it's "unfair." Those breeders have probably worked very hard to get where they're at. I don't see anything wrong with their kids showing their high quality goats. What would be the point of showing if people weren't bringing their best goats or just not entering the show so others could win or have better placings? Put yourself in their position...would you bring your lower quality goats so others had a better chance of winning or would you bring the goats that you want to bring, the ones that you feel will do best for your kids? Youth shows especially should be about learning, showing off the hard work you've put into your goats, meeting new people, and most importantly, having fun!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> If you show to win, you will never have fun. I can understand your frustration, but I personally don't think it's "unfair." Those breeders have probably worked very hard to get where they're at. I don't see anything wrong with their kids showing their high quality goats. What would be the point of showing if people weren't bringing their best goats or just not entering the show so others could win or have better placings? Put yourself in their position...would you bring your lower quality goats so others had a better chance of winning or would you bring the goats that you want to bring, the ones that you feel will do best for your kids? Youth shows especially should be about learning, showing off the hard work you've put into your goats, meeting new people, and most importantly, having fun!


Agreed! Well said!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

The "fancy" goat people can actually be an inspiration for the lower level show kids. How? Because they can inspire those kids to work up to their level, and make it to the top. It gives the participants a challenge, and a goal to be one of the best.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Are there enough entrants to split the classes? I don't think it's fair to bar them from the show, but maybe you could get a separate division created for goats with a certain number of show points to even out the competition.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Was it an open show or all youth? If it was open I can't blame them for bringing their best. It's aggravating but it just makes me work harder. I look for ways to get that quality without paying that $$$$. Candice, pm me sometime and I will send pictures of wethers I got for 200 to 400 dollars. A lot of it comes to picking the right phenotype goats to start with. Your kids will get there! Just have to stay focused on the goal at hand. We have someone on our wether circuit that will go buy goats with feed programs- basically they pay extra for the breeder to tell them what to feed and when and how much. I can't even begin to tell you how good it feels to beat those people with my "mediocre" wethers. Breeding does are a little harder but it goes back to phenotype.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I honestly don't have a real big opinion on it. I just wanted to know what others thought, because there were some people I spoke with who were complaining about the same kids winning in every class. I see their point, and I see other peoples points too, so I am kind of on the sidelines lol.
But when my kids started complaining and not wanting to stay until the end of the show, that was really bothersome. They've never been like that at a show before  

When I say 'fancy' I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just that's what they are, they are fancy bred show goats, thus fancy show goats 
A good inspiration, but nothing my kids could ever afford, I can't even afford them lol. I want them to breed, raise & show their own goats so that is always a big accomplishment for them even if they don't realize it.
My kids never expect to win, but they do want to do well. They have a LOT to learn, and need to work harder with their goats.
It just seems if your goat isn't the fattest or biggest in the bunch, they don't have a chance at this particular show. Which is a shame. Also, when you have a 6mo age span in a class, there are going to be small goats and big goats, but the younger/smaller ones never stood a chance. 

The kids most likely won't go next year, they can try a different show  
I am proud of them & their goats. I have a very limited budget for all of this, and I think they are doing great for what they have to work with.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I don't think there is anything wrong with avoiding that show because you know it's too tough. I'm one of those that regularly gets their butt kicked at the ABGA shows, and I do avoid a show when I know I don't have anything good enough, or ready enough, to compete. My first few shows I had no idea when that was the case. Ha. It's hard enough to win when you have a good one even. I do think the competition has made my herd better. I don't have a lot of money, so I get the budget thing, but I don't get the impression that the successful show breeders around here are "rich" either. They've been doing it longer. My theory is you have to keep upgrading by keeping your best and selling the others. Change bucks regularly since bucks can move you forward or keep you stuck in the mud. So to speak.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

If you'd like I can give you points on evaluating. It all starts with knowing what are good and bad traits and how to avoid them. I agree with Tim, keep the best and sell the rest. We don't have a big show string (4 goats for 3 people) but the quality runs deep. That's what counts in livestock... Once you've got you quality then you can go for quanity. But back to the topic, I understand where your coming from but I don't think it's really unfair of them. We only have one income so I certainly get the budget thing too.


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## Frosty (Feb 13, 2010)

I have just started showing goats this year and I do it for fun and to see what I can improve on. I think the same people win over and over again but I don't raise my animals to make money I do it cause I love animals and am having fun doing it. But I do understand how the kids can get discouraged but its a lesson in what life is all about.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Honestly I don't really know, I don't think I really know enough about it to comment. What I do know is, it shouldn't be about winning, because not everyone who walks in the ring can win, only one can most of the time (I know there might be an occasional exception to this such as a tie or something) So it should be about having fun, doing your best, and being responsible for your animal. And Candice..... from knowing you on here, I am pretty sure your kids are doing all that. If this show wasn't fun to them, then maybe skip it next year. :shrug: Also though, just THINK how good your kids would feel, if at one of these shows they did take first against the big breeder and the fancy goats and the deep pockets.... what kind of amazing self esteem builder would that be? And there is nothing saying it couldn't happen. Just something else to chew on.


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## ndwarf (Dec 23, 2013)

Maybe try a youth showmanship class? Then it would not matter how good the goat is, just somewhat how it is clipped.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I honestly didn't know what to say about the situation lol
My kids aren't sore losers, but I felt bad that they didn't have fun and wanted to leave  Then the people I spoke with who felt the same way about their kids placings, I just didn't know what I should think.

I definitely think they need to skip this show and do something else. They are very comfortable at the fairs, so they'll stick with those  They had a great time at a market goat show a couple of weeks ago, and should be proud of their accomplishments then as well. 

My kids goats are fine IMO, they just aren't as thick as some of the goats they were showing against. We don't have high quality breeding does, they aren't real wide/meaty and are %'s. I've considered several times selling some, but the kids are attached to them, so it's very hard to sell. I'm definitely considering changing things up enough to possibly try to add a nice doe, but we'll see. That would mean they have to sell 2 of their 3 little does.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I probably don't know enough to reply either but I remember feeling the same was as your kids when I did beef in 4h. No it's not always about winning but you sure want to try and have a chance. I always had my home raised steers against kids that had steers that were thousands of dollars. It gets old fast. When I realized I would never win because I didn't have the money it was sad but since these were animals out of my animals I was proud of what ever score they got....well except when I got very last lol. But I think I would be a little upset if I was in your shoes I'm not gonna lie but really nothing anyone can do. You can't ask them to not come back. They have just as much right to be there as everyone else. But if the picture I have in my mind is correct where it's against kids with just nice goats and they bring in the best of the best....what fun is that to them?? I would figure they would want some of a challenge



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## NewbieNubian (Nov 7, 2011)

I remember having these feelings when I used to show horses. At the open shows it was people coming in with fancy Arabians winning the classes, and at the breed shows (Appaloosa, in my case) it was people coming in with expensive horses while I came in with my (albeit registered) filly and rarely won much of anything (she's a great mare, but her bloodlines are more foundation stock/working lines rather than those fancy, delicate show lines).

It does suck, and it isn't fair. But, it is life. You will always have to compete with people that are better-off than you. I always have. It's character building, but I can understand how your children feel. One of my college instructors gave me an interesting view on it.

Look at things like those breeders aren't even in the running. Ignore them. They're winning using their resources that have allowed them to buy the best. Look at the others that are at YOUR level and see how you ranked amongst them. He said this to me after placing second in a cattle show behind a very well-known breeder and shook it off saying it was just "politics" that let them win. And I've seen it as well.

Just my two cents. :2cents: (Hope I made sense. Haha)


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

You can always breed up. Maybe you could find some who can AI your does to a really nice buck. Should up your chances of getting some pretty good babies for next year. Or maybe find a stud service to a super nice buck...Just a thought.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

lovinglife said:


> You can always breed up. Maybe you could find some who can AI your does to a really nice buck. Should up your chances of getting some pretty good babies for next year. Or maybe find a stud service to a super nice buck...Just a thought.


Was just going to suggest that


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

HoosierShadow said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. I honestly didn't know what to say about the situation lol
> My kids aren't sore losers, but I felt bad that they didn't have fun and wanted to leave  Then the people I spoke with who felt the same way about their kids placings, I just didn't know what I should think.
> 
> I definitely think they need to skip this show and do something else. They are very comfortable at the fairs, so they'll stick with those  They had a great time at a market goat show a couple of weeks ago, and should be proud of their accomplishments then as well.
> ...


It isn't fun to stand in last place and watch the same people win every class


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Back in the 1970's, I was in 4-H. I had a wonderful American Saddlebred horse, but, he wasn't a top notch show horse. (which is why I had him).
A girl named Joyce H. was a couple yrs. older than me. Her parents owned a show stable- all professionally trained, as she was. I was a simply a farm kid that
loved my horse. She and I both showed Saddle seat. Everyone else was either Western or Hunt Seat. Anyway, she always won, everything. 

I tried so hard to beat her, but she used all our local 4-H shows to prep for the big national shows. There was talk of banning professionally trained kids and horses, but
that never went anywhere. Anyway- I finally realized that competing against her made me improve! I actually beat her a couple of times. Then she graduated, 
went away and I was king for 2 yrs! 

I guess, in one way, it is really unfair to compete with pros, but on the other hand, it does make a person try harder and makes any win all that much sweeter! 

(sorry for the long ramble!)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone, I love hearing your stories of showing 
I remember standing at the show talking to a parent who hadn't been there before, and she was very discouraged. She didn't like how the show was going. Her child was getting ready to go in for a wether class, I told her not to worry, just be proud. I am no pro at judging a wether, but that boy had a BEAUTIFUL wether ♥ I told her he'd do well, and he sure did! I was so happy for them  
I'm sure it's a lot of fun to show professionally and be on top. I know that everyone I've talked to that was on top are such nice people with beautiful goats. I know they didn't get there over night, but explain that to kids, haha.

As for my kids and their goats. They are very attached to the does they have. They aren't fancy, thick goats, they have conformational flaws, etc. But we always try to put a nice buck on them. I honestly don't know that they are worth all the $$ to AI. I've heard it can be expensive.

My friend who raises goats told me tonight, the difference between us and them is... we are doing things natural, and they are not. She said they are using chariots, expensive show feeds, putting a lot of $$ into the goats, and our kids goats are on a regular feed, and hay. 
So, the more I think about it, the more I am proud of what my kids are able to accomplish with their goats. 
They are all on regular 16% medicated, pelleted feed, with the exception of one doe that is in a weird growth stage, she gets animax 1x a day to help her out. I wish my kids would truly understand this, again explain it to stubborn hardheads!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Candice, I use a chariot and a show feed, which isn't really expensive. It's two dollars higher than noble goat at TSC for a much better formula. I don't see how that's unnatural. So does that make me a show jock? Because I know what my goats need to win? I don't spend big money on goats. However feeding and working at home is where success starts. Personally, it makes me sad to see many be discouraged because they don't win. This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Dani-1995 said:


> Candice, I use a chariot and a show feed, which isn't really expensive. It's two dollars higher than noble goat at TSC for a much better formula. I don't see how that's unnatural. So does that make me a show jock? Because I know what my goats need to win? I don't spend big money on goats. However feeding and working at home is where success starts. Personally, it makes me sad to see many be discouraged because they don't win. This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon.


Dani - I know you rock with your goats  Natural probably wasn't the right word, but that's what she called it. She meant that the kids breed, raise their own goats & show their own goats, they get feed mill feed, and no supplements, although I was going to add some oil to help with shine this year, but decided they were fine. But it's aimed more at the breeding does, than market wethers. My kids wethers are fine, and they are big boys. It's more a breeding animal issue. She knows a lot of professional breeders, how they do things, etc.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

It comes down to 'its for the kids'. If they aren't happy , its not worth it IMO. They love the goats they have , i totally understand that 
Have a meeting with them , ask them if they would be interested in selling some of their does for better stock to be able to breed "better" goats. Let them make this decision. If they are happy showing at the fair shows , then so be it. They can keep their beloved does and just have fun at the shows they are comfortable at. This , IMO , is what is is truly about , not winning all the time. But feeling they did their best , they are happy with their placings and had a grew time.
If they decide to sell their stock , then you know where you stand.
I don't know anything about showing , but i do know it supposed to be FUN. Let your kids voice their feelings and what they would like to do.
IMO , there is nothing sadder then seeing a child not happy with their accomplishments or lack of for that day. Knowing they could do better at a different show would be the deciding factor for me.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> If you show to win, you will never have fun. I can understand your frustration, but I personally don't think it's "unfair." Those breeders have probably worked very hard to get where they're at. I don't see anything wrong with their kids showing their high quality goats. What would be the point of showing if people weren't bringing their best goats or just not entering the show so others could win or have better placings? Put yourself in their position...would you bring your lower quality goats so others had a better chance of winning or would you bring the goats that you want to bring, the ones that you feel will do best for your kids? Youth shows especially should be about learning, showing off the hard work you've put into your goats, meeting new people, and most importantly, having fun!


Well said. I would also add that people need to keep in mind that every show, no matter the level, is a competition. Yes, you will have the people that say they are just there for "fun", but most are there to compete and win. Let's admit it....winning is fun! Those of you who tell you're kids different probably don't understand the true spirit of competition. And those that have animals that can't compete to win should have other goals that your kids understand. Such as learning what type of animals they should be looking for (breeding for), how to show their animal better, how to fit it better, even how to feed it better.

In my opinion, if your kids are last in every class, even on a budget, you can do much better by learning a little. A lesser animal that is fed, fit, and shown well, will beat the kid who bought a nicer animal and doesn't know how to do these things.

It's not always about money. It's about dedication to learning how to make the best of what you have. Along the same lines, if you have educated yourself on good conformation and are diligent in your search, you can get your hands on some really nice breeding pieces for a good price.

I don't mean to be harsh. It just bugs me when ignorant people rag on the ones who have worked hard to be successful. Even if you have a lot of money, you still have to learn how to feed, show, and fit to be successful.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I understand. And I've been in both positions. I've gone to shows where everything we brought won something and honestly, I kind of felt bad about it.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I want to add to my last post that i didn't mean to only expose kids to shows that they will do well in , rather ones that "they" feel better competing at…..someone has to come in last or second or third , of course , but if your child feels that "its not worth it" to show against someone that they know will win anyways , where is the fun in that ?
Im sure they don't expect to win all the time , but at least have a shot at it. Im not at all against the breeders who always win, or any of that , I'm just stating my opinions on how the kids feel


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If your kids want to win then they need to think about what they have and if it's worth it to them to sell and get something better. 
Now as I said before I only showed some beef steers but it still in a way is like what your kids have going on. Yes I could have not used my own animals and spend a ton of money on something I knew would win but it wasn't worth it to me. I seen no point in spending a ton of money to be a winner. But ask them if it's worth it to them. I would ask your kids if it's worth selling all your does and getting 2 nicer does just to win. If they say no which it sounds like they would then tell them to enjoy it and be proud of what ever place those goats get. You have nice goats and your kids are still young. If they are serious about showing then they can save their money for something else later down the road. That's what I did and that's what I'm doing now. Most of my girls would be laughed at but I like them and they work for me. But I am very slowly getting better stock to add to my herd.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I guess my question would be, why would you show an animal that you don't think has a chance to do well?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I guess because they love their goats and for the experience and its fun


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

BCG said:


> I guess my question would be, why would you show an animal that you don't think has a chance to do well?


I may start a war, but this attitude really bothers me. I run into it a lot at fair and 4 h meetings. Why can't a kid just show because it is fun and they want to? Why does it have to be about winning? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree but I really am not fond of this attitude at all. I was met with it when I first signed my daughter up for 4-H and asked about showing goats. I decided if that is the prevalent attitude we needed to join a different club or go it on our own and independent 4-h members. I remember when I was in 4-h and our leaders encouraged us to do our best, but the key was to have fun and learn. Not to win.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I think the point is that you want to at least have a chance. Not win every time, but if you're always coming in dead last I don't see how that's much fun. Granted, I am very competitive


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

See I am not competitive at all. I never showed my horse because it never mattered to me, I trail rode and herded cattle on the farm with him. I don't judge myself against others I judge myself against myself. I don't really understand competitiveness and honestly it kind of gets on my nerves.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I personally would get frustrated if I never did well at shows. I don't have to be at the very top, but I don't enjoy groveling on the bottom either! 

No matter how much fun I'd have with the experience, repeatedly being placed low on the totem pole would wear me down, and I'd just get bored with the whole idea. As I said before I wouldn't need to win every show every time, but an occasional win would certainly help my goat showing self-esteem


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I guess I kind of agree with NubianFan. It shouldn't be all about winning but if your really competitive why not ask those on top for help or suggestions? That's what I do and why I don't consider myself big time, I realize that with the help of many people I have gained a good bit of knowledge. I guess people either see that or are told to ask me for help, because I help alot of people. I'm actually planning to do a clipping/showmanship clinic.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Need to get them into a 4-H club. Although not as good as they used to be, 4-H doesnt judge the goat but the kid. A judge should give pointers on what makes a good goat and where they should look to improve theirs. But its about how they show and keep the goat thats the main focus. 

Now if this show you went to was an open show, was it sanctioned by the respectable registries? I dont know why any top breeders would show at a show that doesnt give them the chance at a "leg" unless there were premiums for placing. Which makes it like a fair and there should of been 4-H groups showing separate from open.

An open show that is sanctioned will always draw out your better locale breeders and is no place for youth exhibitors on a budget. The reason the better breeders are spending all the money is for just this reason. They show, they win, people see their goats, they get improved status on their animals and in turn get to sell their animals for more money. An open show is designed for them. An example would be like you wouldnt see a kid at a Westminster dog show with a dog bought from the pound or an un proven breeder.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

NubianFan said:


> I may start a war, but this attitude really bothers me. I run into it a lot at fair and 4 h meetings. Why can't a kid just show because it is fun and they want to? Why does it have to be about winning? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree but I really am not fond of this attitude at all. I was met with it when I first signed my daughter up for 4-H and asked about showing goats. I decided if that is the prevalent attitude we needed to join a different club or go it on our own and independent 4-h members. I remember when I was in 4-h and our leaders encouraged us to do our best, but the key was to have fun and learn. Not to win.


I'm good with people showing for the fun of it. But if you say it's for fun, you shouldn't complain about who is winning or why they're winning. You shouldn't even be concerned....because you're just having fun. Just saying....

And you're right about learning. But in my mind, if you just keep breeding the same stock that places at the bottom of the class....well....you're not learning much.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree with everyone for the most part. I don't agree that people are ignorant because they complain, that doesn't make them ignorant, or not know their goats, etc. 
I do think some of the complaints were probably not as solid as they might be at a small, county fair.
It was a state show, and these kids are most likely going to be showing all of these goats at the state fair, and IMO this is a prep for state, so really I don't understand why there was so much complaining. I think really it's not the kids/pro families issue as it is the parents issue with the judge maybe?

Premiums were involved at the show & most shows have premiums.

I am sure all of the kids at the show are a member of some kind of club whether it be 4-h or FFA. 

My kids are in 4-H, and the only ones that show goats in our county.
They will rebound and enjoy themselves again, I have no worries there  They have nice goats, they may not be fancy or wide/beefy, or real big right now, but I have confidence that they are going to be nice does as they mature. The kids can stick to county fairs with their goats this year, and if they feel confident to try something bigger later on, then they can do so.
I am toying with getting 1-2 decent does to change things up a bit. But I still wouldn't pay high dollar for a fancier show animal. Problem is finding the nice, fullblood/purebred does that will fit into a budget close enough for me to go get them. Everything I like so far has been in Texas LOL My husband is very much the type that he has to see the animal in person before we pay anything.
Of course, if we were buying from someone like Toth Boer goats, Crossroads, etc. that wouldn't be an issue lol, but they are cross country from us! Figures lol
For the most part the kids will call the shots. I will make suggestions, and see what they want to do. 

As for the complaining from that show, I hope I don't hear anything like that at shows again. It really caught me by surprise, and kind of dampened the mood, then my kids frustration really had me not knowing if I was thinking wrong, or if I should be agreeing with others.
I still don't know how I feel, but I don't think the complaining was really legit.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Or spending a ton of money on something and it dies. That's why I'm a ok just keeping on saving money and getting better and better bucks instead of spending a boat load on a new herd. I think your doing just fine the way your doing it  


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Open sanctioned shows do not have premiums. I think I am getting an idea of the kinda show it was. Its not a fair but yet the state paid premiums. There were not 4-H specific showing so they got lumped into the rest. Kinda makes it like a fair for goats only and a single day long I would guess. Still dont know the idea behind it. Fairs bring in money for the county. Open shows that are sanctioned bring in "legs" for the shower (and there is usually a raffle to earn money for the group putting it on). So whats the goal of this show?


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> Open sanctioned shows do not have premiums. I think I am getting an idea of the kinda show it was. Its not a fair but yet the state paid premiums. There were not 4-H specific showing so they got lumped into the rest. Kinda makes it like a fair for goats only and a single day long I would guess. Still dont know the idea behind it. Fairs bring in money for the county. Open shows that are sanctioned bring in "legs" for the shower (and there is usually a raffle to earn money for the group putting it on). So whats the goal of this show?


Sounds like a jackpot show. Intended for youth to earn back some of the money they've invested in their projects.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

When there are jackpot runs or shows there are always lots of people entered you wouldn't normally see. I know that stands for some dog venues.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

The state shows are really good shows IMO. I think they have 1 Jr. Breeding and Market goat show, the rest are more for commercial does & market wethers., maybe 4-5 market goat shows? Then other species as well.
The state hosts the show, but they have an agriculture program as well that I believe helps support the show. In order to show as a program participant, the breeder has to apply to become a member<free>, when approved you pay $5 for each eartag for each animal.
So.. when your kid goes to these shows with the goats, and lets say they get 1st place, for a non program participant you might get $15.00. But for a program participant you would instead get $20.
Most people do not use the program tags in their breeding animals ears. The only ones we put them in was our kids market wethers, and a friend put 1 in a buck that we got from her. 
There are premiums for each class winner, then I think maybe a bigger premium for the champions, but I'm not sure. I think they also pay a participation premium for showmanship too, but I'm not sure. 
No fee for entry.

The fairs are nice, in our state you can show in other counties. 
Most of the fairs pay premiums 1st-4th/5th places, some pay really well, and have a nice award for the Grand Champions.

Our fair show is in a couple of days, being sponsored by a local feed store. I think payout is $25-20-15-10. Grand Champion market $125 & Reserve $75, then Grand & Reserve does $125 each, plus all champions get a trophy. Market & commercial classes are youth only, and breeding is open. Everyone has to pay $10 to get into the fair.

So it attracts a lot of people from other counties. -- Our kids are the only ones in our county that show 4-H, and I think one other kid may be showing this year in FFA.
The show last year was GREAT, we had so much fun! It helped that we had an awesome judge that was fun, he wasn't too picky, he gave kids advice, and just really was great with them all.
I pray we have another judge like that.

Our county we voted to keep doing a youth expo at the end of July - that is when kids projects/animals get judged in order to go to state fair. It's open to youth from other counties as well. Last year there were over 50 goats who came for the goat show  They show together in each class/division, then the best placing in each class comes back in for our county champion. It was really nice last year to have so many youth come.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Sounds like you have some better options, so why keep doing a show that isn't any fun?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

We are in the same predicament. I have mediocre wethers and a sheep. One month ago, we showed at a jackpot show where there were out of state breeders who brought 10-15 wethers (goat and lamb each), and brought a paid person to show them. Of course she took first in each class, and grand champion. My kids took last. The judge pulled out his top 5, and told everyone else as a group to leave...
Now, I get it, you go to shows like these to get your name out there so you can charge lots of money for the animals you sell next year. But it still doesn't feel good.
When I was showing in 4H, I never could afford a really nice steer, or lamb. My Dad always told me, show your best in the showmanship classes because that is judging you, not the animal and is more important than the other. People can pay lots of money for top quality animals, walk in the ring and win, but it takes a real showman to win showmanship....I won grand champion showman every year for 8 years after that.

I tell my kids the same thing. Raising these animals is about learning life lessons like responsiblity, humility, empathy and hard work. In life, we don't always win, but if we do our best, we come out on top every time.

Good luck at your next shows.


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## MillerShowing (Jun 9, 2014)

At my fair we don't usually do very well in the market classes but we're starting to figure things out piece by piece. Since we don't do well in market classes i focus on showmanship a lot. Listen to what the judge has to say that you can improve on after your show. Also work with your goats a ton.


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Well said loggyacreslivestock.


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