# Anglo nubian- 3 babies, 2 died.



## seathing (Aug 6, 2010)

Hello, 
We've been having some major problems with our baby Anglo Nubian goats.
We bought a pregnant mother and she kidded Saturday 31st August. She had three babies, all boys. 
Within about a hour of giving birth two of the babies were suckling away and seemed very happy. The remaining kid was a runt and it wouldn't stand and the mother was ignoring it. 
After waiting a little longer we figured that the runt would die so we brought it inside into the warm and milked of a tiny bit of the mums collostrum to feed to him. Amazingly the baby came around and although it was much smaller than the other two, started to look OK.
We continued to milk a bit of the mums milk to feed to the runt for the next 4 days. After that we started to give it milk from our Saanen who is producing much more milk.

Anyway, by 4 days old the other two who stayed with the mum looked great, put on lots of weight and were bouncing around and climbing on anything and everything. We went to spend a couple of hours with the babies and they were playful and energetic. Both babies were passing liquid and poos normally, no messy bums. 
Litterally about 10 minutes after leaving the paddock we heard a baby goat screaming, we ran back to find one of the babies lying on it's side, screaming, mouth open, tongue hanging out. 1 hour later it was dead despite rushing it to the vets, nothing could be done. The vet didn't now what the problem was.

Anyway, yesterday, we headed up to the paddock to go and see the remaining baby and mum. All seemed well and again the baby was bounding around, feeding, pooing and weeing. All seemed good.
This morning at 6am I heard the mum calling out. I looked out the window and the mum and baby were wandering around the paddock. Great, I thought and I hit the snooze button on the alarm. When I got up 15 minutes later and looked out the window, the baby was dead!!!!!!

This was devastating! What is going on? 
The only survivor is the runt who has been hand fed mainly on another goats milk (except for the first few days). He's fine and full of energy.

The mum is frantic and very noisy at the moment.

As far as I know the mum goat hasnt been tested for CAE. Is this a possible cause for these deaths?
I'm going to get the tests done this weekend?

What should be done for the mum now?

I can't imagine that there is anything that is killing them in the paddock. All 3 babies (inlcuding the runt) have been vaccinated by the vet. 

There is also a Saanen with 2 kids in the paddock, they all seem fine.

The Anglo nubian is a first time mum, could this have something to do with it?

When the first baby died, the vet thought it was developmental problems? 

Thanks and sorry for the horrible story...


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## seathing (Aug 6, 2010)

I've just spoken to the vet at length and the only suggestion he had was Clostridia?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wow that is a crazy set of circumstances im so sorry 

I do know that CAE in young kids can cause respiratory problems but I am not sure about sudden death.

Vaccinating a 4 day old isnt going to be effective though for something like enterotoxemia - they get the antibodies through the colostrum if mom was vaccinated prior to kidding. 

I am not familiar with clostridia's symptoms I will have to look it up to see if I agree with this


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## seathing (Aug 6, 2010)

Basically, the vet said we may have saved the runt by feeding it the Saanens milk which may still have had some colostrum in it.
He said the colostrum from the mum may not have been much good??

Either way, fingers crossed for the remaining baby who seems fine, is always hungry and is chewing anything and everything in the house.. 

I asked him about breeding in the future and he seemed to think that as long as the mums vaccinations are kept up to date, there is no real reason why this should happen again.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

clostridia: clinical signs

include weakness, depression, fever, icterus, anemia, hemoglobinuria, tachypnea, and terminal recumbency.

I dont think your goat kids had clostridia after reading up on it in my goat medicine book. But thats just me


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh and kids can live without colostrum 

checked up on CAE too -- not saying your doe does or doesnt have it just that you would have seen signs of pneumonia in young kids. Stiff joints and swelling of the joints usually occurs in adult animals who express the disease. 

the only way to know for sure what your kids died from is to get a necropsy done. these are pricy but can be worth it to know what is causing the deaths.


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## seathing (Aug 6, 2010)

From my limited experience I would say the babies couldn't have looked healthier. Very active, playing, feeding, no scours.
No joint problems or obvious neurological problems. 

This is the first time I have had a mother kid but I have hand reared three goats from 5 days old before with no problems.

Any suggestions how to deal with the mum? She's very upset. 

How should I go about her milk? I assume she will need milking now? How do I assist with her drying up?


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## Polarhug (Jul 1, 2010)

Sorry to hear of your losses


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry for your losses...  


....good luck with.. for the remaining baby.... :hug: ray:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

seathing said:


> From my limited experience I would say the babies couldn't have looked healthier. Very active, playing, feeding, no scours.
> No joint problems or obvious neurological problems.
> 
> Any suggestions how to deal with the mum? She's very upset.
> ...


Were these babies by chance thumped hard by the other doe? I've seen does literally send a kid not their own sailing through the air when they get too close.

Yes, you will need to milk the mom, I'm guessing that she's pretty uncomfortable at this point. I've never tried to dry off a newly fresh doe and even now after 6 months I'm having trouble getting my girls to dry off and thats after having their supply drop. What I would do is to milk her just about half way out just once a day, reduce her grain too...do this for the next 3-5 days, then stop her grain totally and only milk her if she seems extremely tight. She should dry up within 2-3 weeks. I'm so sorry you lost those babies, I know how difficult and heartbreaking it is to hear mama crying too, that makes things much more difficult to deal with :hug:


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## seathing (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Liz, thanks for the reply and advice.
When the first baby died the Saanen wasn't in the same paddock. She was when the second died so that is a possibility although I haven't seen any nasty behaviour from her though. We did think about that though. 
So in the future, would you normally keep each mum and kids apart?

The Saanen I have is the most chilled out goat I have ever met.

Thanks


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I typically have my does kid in late winter/ early spring and each have their own stall with their babies...I don't let kids out to join the herd til they are strong enough to get away quick if another doe is agressive. They are also put up at night with their moms for the first 3-4 weeks, then by themselves so I can milk in the morning, with mom and the herd throughout the day.

Another thought as to why the kids passed....they are nibbling and mouthing things at about a week old, any way they could have gotten hold of something too big and choked? I've had my fingers sliced by baby teeth trying to dislodge stones, grain and pieces of too big hay that they've tried to eat and started choking on.


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