# Goat used to stand for milking now kicks like crazy.



## blip3200 (Jan 8, 2013)

I have a goat, she's 3-4 years old, and been hand milked her whole life. This is the first time I've had her/milked her. She freshened about a month ago. At first she stood just fine while I milked her. I don't have a milking stand, but I just tied her to a fence, put grain down in front of her, and didn't have any problem. In fact, until about 2 weeks ago, I didn't even have to tie her at all, she would just stand. About 2 weeks ago, she started kicking some towards the end, so I started tying her. Then I went away on vacation for 9 days and a friend milked her for me. 

Now that I'm back, her production is suddenly WAY down (she was doing 1/2 a gallon a day with only one functioning teat, and today I milked her and barely got three cups! I noticed that the first time I milked her after I got back, I got the usual amount, but since then it's been about half of what I was getting before, and the kicking is so bad that I can barely even touch her teat without kicking. She only has one kid on her. I've been leaving the kid with her because until now there was plenty of milk for the both of us. 

She has always seemed to be a somewhat nervous goat. In addition to kicking, and not producing as much milk, it's hard to get her to eat her grain while I'm trying to milk her. Put the grain in their paddock and she'll gobble it right up with gusto, but if it's milking time, she seems to nervous and will barely eat. This again was not a problem at first. 
Basically my question is two fold. 

1. Why did her milk production stop so suddenly? Could it be that my friend wasn't milking her properly and that caused the drop? She is early in her lactation, so I was a little worried since he only had a little experience milking before, but I figured because it was so early and I was only gone for a little over a week that it would be OK. 

2. Why would a goat start kicking after milking out so calmly before? The day after I left is when my friend mentioned that she was kicking a lot. How can I get her to stop?

3. How can I get her to chill out and eat grain while I'm milking her? She's skinny- probably because it's hard for me to get her to eat at milking time, and my other goat isn't on any grain because she has plenty of forage and isn't being milked or pregnant, so I'd rather not have to feed her by putting the food in the pen with the other goat, but it seems the best way to get the goat that's IN milk to eat is to get her to eat with the other goat. 

Ugh. I'm really frustrated and disappointed. I was so happy with her production and demeanor at first and now everything seems to be going down hill. 

*I wormed with ivermectin the day after she kidded, they are in a fresh paddock with plenty to eat and I give her as much grain as I can get her to eat each day. They also have free choice minerals from Countryside Organics, redmond salt, herbal wormer from Molly's Herbals, and I just started to give her a Fortified B Complex injection because her eyelids weren't as pink as I'd like them and I though it might give her a boost and help her appetite.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

How are the flies in your area? My doe is stompy right now due to flies pestering her.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Her baby is also consuming A LOT more milk right now. It is growing, and so are its demands.

Check for worms. My doe had worms in spite of worming when she freshened. I treated her in may for them. She freshened the last day of February.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

If it came on suddenly, she may be getting sore teats.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Yes. It could also be that your friend wasn't milking her at all, or only intermittently. Remember, it only takes about a week for a doe to dry up completely. The fact that she has a kid would prevent that, but a doe will only produce enough milk to meet the demand up to her capacity. If she was not being milked daily or twice a day, she would decrease her production accordingly. Another possibility is that she was not being fed properly while you were gone. At a month old, the kid should be eating more hay/grain/forage and less milk. 

Is there anything off about the way her milk looks or tastes? Have you tested for mastitis? If not, I'm thinking your friend lacks proper milking technique and/or may have been rough with her. You're going to have to be patient and give her the chance to realize that you milking her doesn't hurt/is not uncomfortable. Work with her - it will take time, but I suspect she will come around.

Try bringing her into where you milk about 30 minutes earlier and giving her the bulk of her grain prior to milking her. When she is done, then put her on the stand, give her a little more, and work with her on not kicking/standing calmly for milking.


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## blip3200 (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks all. Her milk tastes great. I'm fairly certain that my friend was milking twice per day and on a regular schedule. I watched him milk to be sure that he could milk at least well enough-- a little clumsy, but clearly he had done it before. He did mention her kicking a lot, so I think that he may not have been milking her out completely. At first I thought flies were the problem, but now it's clear that's not the problem-- we really have very few and it's when I touch her teats that she reacts. I'm guessing it was the style and competency of my friend milking her. If thats the case, is there still a chance I can get her production back up or is it down for good? MsScamp-- I'll follow your advice and try giving her grain for 1/2 hour before hand. That might work. I think I will likely go ahead and worm her again just to be sure because I do think she is wormy. I was hoping that the ivermectin/herbal wormer combo would do the trick. Thanks!


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Just a thought, if I spray a little milk (sometimes right at first milk kind of goes everywhere) they will stomp and kick, they don't like anything landing or misting on their legs at all!! Flies are a terrible concern for them.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I have a doe that will let ONLY ladies milk her, if I'm distracting her, then a man can milk her, or if she is WELL hobbled, if my dad has to milk her when I'm gone a day or two, she's MAAAAD when I go to milk her, just her personality, she gets over it eventually, I don't know, it's a thought.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Your friend may not have been milking her out all the way either or she didn't let down her milk which would also make it where she didn't get milked out all the way. As for the kicking any scratches? Sores? As for kicking did you get onto her the first time she kicked?? They are very smart and will learn fast how much they can push and get away with. It could also be the flies but something is going on from when you got her to now. 
My doe is also picky about who milks her. It's me she wants and she runs to me. After my mom chases her around she will put up with my mom but no way no how will she let anyone else touch her bag. It's a war and fight from the start.


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## blip3200 (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm pretty sure that whatever the cause, my friend didn't milk her out thoroughly. I'm so bummed! I had so much milk before! 

As for the kicking, I'm totally stumped. No sores, no flies really to speak of. It's definitely when I touch her teat that she kicks. I've been being as gentle as possible to try and get her to calm down. She even starts kicking when I get near. So strange since she was so good and easy in the beginning. 

So my main two questions now are: 

1. As I said earlier, she seems to be a quite anxious goat, so I wasn't sure if I should yell at her or be forceful with her when she misbehaves, or if I she try to calm her down by being gentle? Thoughts? Jessica84 said "As for kicking did you get onto her the first time she kicked?? They are very smart and will learn fast how much they can push and get away with." How should I get onto her? Taking the food away doesn't work because now it's hard to get her to eat while milking to begin with. 

And 2: Finally, and most important to me, is there any possibility of getting her production back up after this 10 day stint of not being all the way milked out? I'm pretty bummed out. 

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

With me doe, there is so much less of a chance she will stomp or kick if I touch both teats at the same time. She cannot decide if she wants to stomp on one side or the other, whereas if I touch her with one hand first, she is more likely to stomp. My girl also only likes being milked in a stand, not tied up or being held. Has to be in the milk stand. I wipe her down from a standing position, where I lean one arm on her rump and wipe her down with the other hand. She knows when I sit down next to her, that it is milking time. I sit on the stand with her, with my shoulder resting on her Side below her rumen, and she knows it is time to milk. It may be that having a different person do it has just thrown her off, as you have a distinctive style that no one else does to the way you milk. Maybe his man hands didn't feel comfortable on her teats. I know I am the fastest milker in our family, and I milk 99% of the time. My husband doesn't get the flow to come out near as fast. Nor does my mom, who has wider, but shorter, hands than I do. Maybe the guy couldn't get it to come out as well as the milk should have, so started to out too much pressure on her teats?

Have you tried humming something calming to her while you milk? I used to have one song I would hum or sing while working with my horses, and may have to pull it back out to use with my goats now that I think about it. I would hum it while making the horses work. Not while doing other stuff with them. 

Have you tried using udder balm of some sort in case she is dried out or tender from either the guy or the baby? Or some lavender oil to calm her (and you) during milking (not on the udder, but on some other part of her).

I know I am throwing out all sorts of ideas, but maybe one of them will work for you.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

I'd also suggest that for now, you have a second party there to help you if you can. Someone to hold the bucket, and pull it back if she starts to kick. That way, you can keep your hands on her teats as if to say "suck it up girl, my hands are here until milking is done."


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

My first thought is mastitis. A sub-clinical case could easily cause soreness and a drop in production even if there's no heat you can feel. Run a CMT test to be sure. A 3-4 years old goat that has stood without restraint until now has something more going on than a training issue. Granted, mine got super mad when my husband had to milk for two days last year, and it took me a couple of weeks to settle them back down, but they were also brand new first fresheners at the time. 

Her not eating is a sign that she's afraid or in pain, not just being naughty. A naughty goat may be mad, but she won't refuse food. That in mind, I would try to avoid punishing her for kicking. If it turns out she's sore you'll feel terrible and you'll make her distrust you. If your friend was too rough while milking she could have some bruised tissue. Or she's afraid you'll make her sore again even if the bruising is healed. 

But even if she has mastitis/is sore you still need to handle her udder. You might try using a hobble on one hind leg. I've had pretty good success with a noose made from the handle end of a dog leash, wrapped around the leg just above the dewclaw, then tied down through the floor of the stanchion. The noose keeps it from slipping off while the goat kicks, but it allows the restraint to ease up when she's standing normally. Once she's restrained, be extra gentle, talk to her, and take your time. If she's not actually in any pain (just afraid of pain) then some gentle patience should help you get her back to her old self. You'll know she's calmed down when she starts eating. 

But definitely rule out mastitis before you go the training route. All the training in the world won't fix an inflamed udder.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Oh, and make sure her udder isn't chapped. I had a good goat start kicking a few weeks ago and I noticed a day or two later that her teats felt very dry. She could feel the discomfort before I could see or feel any change on the surface. One application of Bag Balm, and the next day she was standing like a champ.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Another idea, I had a perfect milker, until one day she started kicking bad, I managed a wile milking her through the kicking, then almost 2-3 weeks later she came down with serious CAE, in her joints, udders and it went to her brain causing a stroke. It hit her so fast, I didn't see it until it was to late, no signs until BAM, she's down, she was my first goat so I was lost about the hole thing, then studied it to find out what happened to her.


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## blip3200 (Jan 8, 2013)

*Still skinny and low production, but will stand now.*

Update: She will now stand, so I think she just didn't like a different person milking her. Now my concern is that she is awfully skinny, and her production is still low. I suppose I will worm her with ivermectin and see if that helps. Any suggestions for an iron supplement to help with her anemia? I can't get my hands on any Red Cell around here and that's the one that's been suggested to me. I'm also giving her Fortified B complex. I'm worried about her body condition, she seems to just get skinnier and skinnier and her milk production is about 1/3 of what it was and she's only a little over a month into her lactation. I wormed her with Molly's Herbals wormwood wormer, but I'm thinking I should do the ivermectin too. I've also given her a copper bolus. My other goats look fine. Eyes could be a little pinker, but great body condition, etc...


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