# Help sick nursing doe



## MRSEDM

Emergency situation. I have a 3 year old NIgerian Dwarf Doe. She gave birth for the first time Thursday of last week. 1 still born 2 healthy. She has been fine. The kids seemed good. Today I went out to check and noticed she had not moved much. I checked her. She is very sick. One half of her Udder is Hard and swollen. A clear liquid comes out of it. The other has milk. She does not seem able to stand. Her temp is 101.68. Please let me know what I can do tonight this my first goat and my first babies. I can take to a vet tomorrow. Attached is a picture of what is coming out of the swollen side and it’s severely swollen.


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## ksalvagno

You need to milk her out. Probably has mastitis. I would test her for mastitis.


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## Damfino

That looks and sounds like a nasty case of mastitis and I'm surprised her temperature is normal. Milk all of that out tonight and once it's empty massage the udder and apply hot compresses. It will be sore and she probably won't want to let you milk her, but be patient and work with her. You need to get as much of that mess out of there as you can. If you have probiotics and/or vitamin C, give her a large dose. Hopefully milking her out and massaging the udder will help her feel better. Check on her through the night and continue to milk that side out and apply hot compresses every 2-3 hours or so. It will be a long night, but if she's down then it means this is serious and you don't want to lose her. Even if you can't get her up, still try to get the infected milk out of the udder. I suggest taking her temperature again. Hopefully your thermometer is working. 

If she has a fever (temp over 103*) I would recommend penicillin if you have any. I have had good luck squirting it right up into an infected udder using a sterile syringe without a needle. Disinfect the teat and work the end of the syringe into the orifice. Squirt a few CC's of penicillin in there and massage it well up into the udder. I'm glad you she'll be seeing a vet in the morning. Sounds like she needs it! Best of luck to you!


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## Damfino

How is mama this morning?


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## toth boer goats

I agree with mastitis.

Hope things are OK.


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## MRSEDM

I took her to the vet first thing this morning she was not looking good at all. The vet said she had Acute Mastitis that had gone septic. She is at the vet now. He was concerned if she would make it but at the end of the day the update was hopeful she seemed to be responding to the antibiotics Thank Goodness!! I feel so terrible I did not catch it. It is my first time having babies but I thought I was checking her and everything seemed to be going good and then suddenly she was down and her Udder was swollen and hard. I just hope she recovers. I am learning to bottle feed the babies. I think at this point they still think I am trying to kill them with the nipple but they have taken a decent amount of milk. Thank you all for your support!


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## toth boer goats

Oh wow, I am sorry she is so ill.
Prayers sent and I hope it goes well with bottle training.

Are you using milk replacer or store bought whole cows milk?


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## Damfino

I hope your little gal makes it. Mastitis is a nasty thing and some types come on very suddenly with almost no warning. It even sneaks up on people who milk twice a day so you shouldn't feel like you weren't diligent enough. I hope the little kidlets do well on the bottle. Bottle babies are a lot of work but they sure are fun!


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## MRSEDM

Thank you everyone! The bottle feeding is going pretty good the little boy is a pro the girl still things im trying to murder her at first. I feel they are getting more in them than I am wearing which is good lol. Currently I am using whole milk but the Vet told me the Land o Lakes formula is the one he likes best so I ordered it from Amazon and it should be here tomorrow


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## ksalvagno

Really you are better off with the whole milk. Don't be surprised if they get diarrhea from the Land Of Lakes.


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## Damfino

Depends on the goat. I had one baby that got bad diarrhea from cow milk. I've heard good things about the Land O Lakes formula and it's one I would probably try if I found myself short of goat milk. Add the formula to the milk a little at a time and see how they take it. I hope your mama goat is doing better.


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## ksalvagno

I too thought that Land O Lakes was a good product until the last kids I used it for all got bad diarrhea that I had a hard time clearing up. I also found cheap Walmart milk caused diarrhea.


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## MRSEDM

I have been pleasantly surprised that so far they have not gotten diarrhea they have been on whole milk for about 24 hours and are going both normally so far. What is the general consensus on using both? Is that harder or easier on their system? Or just stick with the Whole milk as they are ok so far.


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## lada823

I always use the recipe that has whole milk, buttermilk, and evaporated milk. I'm not sure of the quantity of each but I'm sure it's on the internet if you wanted to Google it. 
I hope your girl continues to improve. I lost a doe once to acute mastitis. It was awful and came on so suddenly.


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## toth boer goats

:nod::up:


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## MRSEDM

I have some more questions. My girl is back home and I will be giving her antibiotics for the next week. Her mastitis is still big and swollen. The other side has a tiny bit of milk but not much. The advice the vet tech gave me is different from most of what I read and am curious what experienced owners say. 

First I had intended to start milking this goat after the first week or so. Obviously thats not going to happen now. The Vet tech said I should just leave her to dry up and leave the swollen area alone. She said that this issue is likely to happen again if I ever tried breeding her. 

Everything I have read said to gently massage the inflamed area and milk out the liquid. If I kept milking both they could recover in a few months after the antibiotics clears her system Its possible I could continue milking her. 

What has been your experience? Is it pretty hopeless she will ever be a good milk goat? Should I just leave her to dry up and not massage the inflamed side?


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## Damfino

Boy, I sure wouldn't leave it! What antibiotic are you giving her? Is it going directly IN the udder? The best way is to put antibiotics directly in the udder since the udder is rather well insulated from the rest of the body. 

There's no way to know for sure right now whether she'll ever produce milk from that side again, but she'll have the best shot if you keep milking both sides twice a day. I've dealt with mastitis a few times and every single one of them came back with a productive udder. Most of them you couldn't even tell they'd had mastitis. The udders mostly evened out the next year and both halves produced equally. I just kept milking them out completely and I infused antibiotics for as long as the tissue felt inflamed. After infusing antibiotics I applied hot compresses and I thoroughly massaged the udder to work the antibiotics well up into the tissue. 

The one side that's not producing should come back if you start milking it right away. Goats often go off milk when they get very sick like yours did, but that doesn't mean the milk can't come back once they get well. Best of luck!


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## happybleats

I would not dry her off while infection is present. High chance she will freshen with mastitis again if you do.
There is a study that says Steroid and high doses vit c can help with sepsis. I would try 1 cc per 20 pounds IM of Dexamethasone and high doses of vit c daily. I would do 5 days then decrease dex dose daily so not to stop abruptly if she were my doe. I would also keep her on penicillin..1 cc per 20 pounds once a day with 48 hour pen or 2 times a day for the reg. Pen. This should be sub q. Draw back plunger before injecting to prevent getting penicillin in the vein which can kill a goat. See no blood is good to go, see blood, adjust and try again.
If not gangrenous, then I would also do very warm compresses, knead. Massage milk repeat. Any milk you get out that is not super gross I would feed back to her..up to 30 cc. Will help her body fight the infection by building antibodies. Make sure she is eating and getting plenty fluids. Be very gentle with her udder. If its gangrenous it will begin to rot and slough off. You at that point will want to stop trying to milk and reduce congestion as it will do no good.
There is an oral homeopathic treatment called Masto blast..give daily for ten days. Dose is 1 cc once a day for 10 days


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## MRSEDM

I am to give her Naxcel once a day in the muscle of her neck. That and a probiotic are what the vet gave me.


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## happybleats

On top of my earlier post, She really needs infused antibiotics like Today or Tomorrow. Milk her out..infuse medication, massage in..leave in for 12 hours..repeat. farm stores carry this. You want a fresh tube each time..dont save extra. It's made for cows so you will have extra. Just toss it. A friend used Elmer's glue to seal the teat closed. It worked well and washed off easy


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## MRSEDM

Thank you Happybleats I will pick up some Today, tomorrow. They have a 12 pack is that enough? Should I massage the udder with anything? I've seen all sorts of suggestions like peppermint oil I was concerned that would sting on abraded skin? What about massaging the swollen tissue? Oh and another question. I would love to let the babies back with their mother but they cant nurse. Is there anything you recommend to block the teats from them?


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## lada823

Teat tape will block her udder from the babies or maybe fashion some kind of sling with an old t-shirt? 
It sounds like the vet gave you meds to keep her from getting septic again but if you are also wanting to save her udder then I would milk and use an infusion like others have suggested. The naxel injection is to keep the infection from spreading to the rest of her and making her super sick again but it won't help save her udder.


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## happybleats

12 pack will be enough I think. You can save a bit of moola by squeezing 1/2 the tube into a large clean syringe, no needle, slip a cannula to that syringe to infuse..then use the other half from its tube on the next round. Getting 2 full uses with out waste..other wise you do need to toss the unused portion. 

A.gentle udder balm is a good idea to work the congestion out. .again if this is gangrenous, leave it..just apply a balm to help with tightness. With gangrenous mastitis there is no hope to safe the udder half but we can save the doe. 
Can you post a picture of her udder?


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## happybleats

Mom most likely would.not allow nursing but you could fashion a breathable.bra for her..maybe mesh.


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## toth boer goats

I agree with what has been said.
Very important to treat the udder.

12 pack should be enough.

Goat bra may help.

You can try vics vapor rub.
Or what others mentioned on the goat spot.
Heat compresses. 
I use a water bottle, it keeps in the heat better. 
Hold on there for 15 to 20 minutes, 2 x a day or more if possible.
Not too hard

First, wash her udder and teats, with iodine/water solution with paper towels, dry her udder with another paper towel, milk her out as much as you can get out.
Then, do the heat compresses, put on vics or whatever you are using and massage.
After a lot of massaging, milk her again, to try to get more out. Massage again as much as you can handle and then milk her again. 

Try not to get the vics on her teats if at all possible. 

When you can't milk no more, wash and dry her teats and infuse her teats.
It is a lot of work, but it helps a lot.


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## Damfino

I'm not sure why you can't use the other half of the mastitis treatment using the syringe it comes in. That's what I do. There's actually a conveniently-located little dot in the plastic halfway up the plunger that I use to gauge when I've inserted half the medicine. Then I disinfect the tip of the cannula and replace the cap. I always thoroughly clean the teat and then disinfect both the teat and the cannula before and after insertion. Just make sure never to pull the plunger back and everything inside the syringe should remain sterile. 

Any reasons why I've got this wrong Happybleats?


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## toth boer goats

By using the same tube, it can introduce bad bacteria into the other side. 
Even cleaning the tip, there may be risk, some bacteria from entering the tip into the teat, can trap bacteria in there, which you are not aware of and introduce bacteria that way.

If a doe has a good size udder, I do the whole tube. 
So I cover more internally. 

If I want to do half a tube, 
I will squirt half into a new 6 cc or 12 cc syringe.
I have the fusion tips I buy, then I can infuse a clean today into the other teat.


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## happybleats

Damfino said:


> Any reasons why I've got this wrong Happybleats?


Pam answered what is the consensus with this. It's better to err on the safe side. 



toth boer goats said:


> By using the same tube, it can introduce bad bacteria into the other side.
> Even cleaning the tip, there may be risk, some bacteria from entering the tip into the teat, can trap bacteria in there, which you are not aware of and introduce bacteria that way.


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## Damfino

toth boer goats said:


> By using the same tube, it can introduce bad bacteria into the other side.


I wasn't thinking of using it in different side. Only one side is infected. Knowing me, I figure I'm more likely to introduce bacteria trying to put medicine into a new syringe. Too many ways to contaminate unless I'm envisioning this all wrong. If you got bacteria inside the original syringe tip, wouldn't you just be squirting it right into the new one anyway? Disinfecting the tip with alcohol should kill anything on the outside, and the inside should not be contaminated unless you pull the plunger back. Sorry, I guess I'm a little confused what difference it makes.


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## 21goaties

Here is what we did when our goatie had mastitis: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/advice-needed-may-has-mastitis-in-precocious-udder.207913/


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## toth boer goats

Using the second half after you have already used it in the infected side and by just wiping off the outer side with alcohol, there is still high risk of reinfecting the udder. 

When we insert the tip, even if we are not pulling back the plunger, could get some bacteria unseen up into the tip area. 
Introducing more bacteria, in which we are trying to remedy. 

The same, if you have 1 side to treat or two. 

Always take out the first half of the today and put it into the new syringe first, then use the second half for infusing. That way, you have not introduced anything by doing it this way.

Hope that makes sense.


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## Damfino

Yes, that does make sense now! Thanks so much for clarifying!

@MRSEDM how is your doe doing?


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## MRSEDM

She is feeling a lot better. I tried putting the kids in with her but she didnt seem overly welcoming and I was worried about them getting hurt. I am going to set up a seperate area in her enclosure to put them in its warm enough now and they are doing really well at least they can get used to being together. 

Her Matitis is pretty ugly. The lower part of the udder is crispy? like it was so streched and hot the skin is hard but emptier. The upper back part is still swollen but not hot. Im removing the bloody liquid from the udder 2 times a day and putting in the Today. The other side is giving about 8oz milk 2 times a day. Its looking like its slowly coming up we started at 6oz when she came back from the vet.

I asked the vet tech how soon we would be able to drink the milk (the good side) she is still getting antibiotic injections and Today in the udder for another 5 days. The tech said 3 months she seemed like she pulled the number randomly from the air. It seems a little long? Most places I read say about 3 weeks or less?


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## Damfino

I'm glad your doe is feeling better. Use some udder balm on that crackling skin. It's not cold to the touch is it? Keep up the massage and hot compresses when you milk. It will make your doe feel a lot better and will help break up the lumps and congestion inside the udder so the tissue can begin to heal. 

Some antibiotics take longer to clear the system than others. For example, Nuflor has a three month milk withdrawal time but penicillin is only 3 weeks I believe. When in doubt, read the label. Even if not labeled for goats, there is usually cattle milk withdrawal time.


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## MRSEDM

The past few days the mastitis didn't really change much it was hard and the teat was kind of crackly from the inflammation and swelling. I have been draining it 2 times a day and putting the TODAY in. Today its different. I THINK its better. The swelling is malleable and feels warmer there was A LOT more liquid today and every time I massaged the swollen area more would come out. I drained until it seemed to be all done for the moment massaged the area some also the liquid was less bloody more pink and either with pus or icky milk. Does this sound like the next normal stage?


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## Damfino

Yes, that sounds like improvement! It means that yucky stuff is breaking up and starting to drain. Keep working at it and you should hopefully find she starts improving noticeably over the next week. I like that it feels warmer but not hot. A cold udder is a scary sign and means the tissue is not getting circulation and is dying. Having it warm up and come back to life means her circulation is moving again and carrying all that nasty infection away. You may start to see clumps of stuff that looks like sloughing tissue coming out in the milk. It may even clog up the teats and make her difficult to milk. This is normal. It IS dead tissue, but hopefully it is being replaced by healthy new tissue.


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## MRSEDM

That is what I hoped. She is still getting both kinda of antibiotics but she does seem like she is feeling a bit worse today. Could the breaking up of all the crud make her feel a little sicker? She is eating and drinking but she was very very clingy when I went in to care for her. (I am also giving her probiotics that the vet gave me)


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## Damfino

I'm not sure why she would feel worse today. Did you take her temperature? Since she's on antibiotics she shouldn't be spiking a fever, but it never hurts to check. Hopefully she doesn't have any other things besides mastitis going wrong. Was she just clingy? If she's eating and drinking well, it's quite possible that being clingy doesn't mean she feels bad. It might just mean she really likes how you're helping her get better! One of my girls adopted me as her baby after I started treating her for mastitis (she lost her kid that year), and even now, years later, she still makes chuckling noises at me when I milk her, and she's extremely clingy while she's in milk. Hopefully she just likes you a lot!


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## MRSEDM

I checked her temp and its 102.7 so within normal. Maybe she is just feeling better and clingy I may be making much of nothing lol I just want her to get better!! She also could be getting jealous of the kids they are penned next to her so she sees me feeding them. I tried blocking her teats and putting them back together but she kept butting them away when they tried to check for milk so I was concerned she might hurt one.


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## toth boer goats

Glad there is improvement, continue what you are doing. Good job. 

She may be in pain from the mastitis and treatment, as to why she is doing that. Banamine may help some, only use as needed.


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## MRSEDM

I was also curious what the average milk from a NGD is. I'm getting about 1C per milking out of the healthy teat. Will the healing side start producing again before the next freshening? Or will I the healthy side be the only side producing until next freshening?


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## MRSEDM

Ok my goats mastitis is starting to clear up. The discharge started flowing a lot a couple days ago and now its less blood more milky/pus. I am still using TODAY though todays would be the 6th 2x dose. Additionally I finished the injected antibiotics yesterday. My concern is that the mastitis is still present.

If I discontinue either or both of the antibiotics do I risk it kicking up again? (I have emailed and left a VM for the vet asking this question)
The healthy side is producing about 2 C a day. Is that normal? I am hoping to try making some cheese soon.
The infected side. Once it clears up is it possible that it will start producing milk again? Prior to freshening or is it finished for this time?


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## Damfino

MRSEDM said:


> Ok my goats mastitis is starting to clear up. The discharge started flowing a lot a couple days ago and now its less blood more milky/pus. I am still using TODAY though todays would be the 6th 2x dose. Additionally I finished the injected antibiotics yesterday. My concern is that the mastitis is still present.


Sounds like improvement! I'm afraid I don't have any way of knowing whether the infection is still present, but there's a good chance it's not.



> 1. If I discontinue either or both of the antibiotics do I risk it kicking up again? (I have emailed and left a VM for the vet asking this question)


There is that possibility, but probably not much risk if her temperature is normal and the udder is not hot and you're continuing to milk it out. I'm glad you're in touch with the vet though.



> 2. The healthy side is producing about 2 C a day. Is that normal? I am hoping to try making some cheese soon.


I think that would be fairly normal for the average Nigerian Dwarf, but I'm not an expert on that breed.



> 3. The infected side. Once it clears up is it possible that it will start producing milk again? Prior to freshening or is it finished for this time?


Not sure. It really depends on how bad the damage was and how well it heals. I don't think anyone can tell you that right now. Hopefully she'll start producing clean, uninfected milk before long and you'll be able to use it once the antibiotics are well out of her system. If it shrivels up and goes dry now I'd be hesitant to think it will ever produce again. Getting milk flowing this season gives you the best odds of having a functional udder for future freshenings.


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## toth boer goats

Good advice. :up:


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