# Please Help!!!!



## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Hello All!!!

I am new here and to raising Goats. My problem is my husband bought me a 6mth old Nubian for Valentines day ( that is what I asked for). We have 4 registered Myotonics and 2 cross breeds. I wanted a milk goat. We are coming on the 1yr mark that we have had them. Anyway my problem is the Nubian, I named Valentine, was very thin and sickly. My husband said he had to get her, he felt so sorry for her. That was a bad mistake I know. I took her to the vet, he said she was very wormy. So I have wormed her like he said to. She has gained weight and is very playful now. Also she has won my heart, I love her dearly. She had lice and mites also, I have that under control now. Ok here we go.....Now she has a lump on her neck, I am almost positive it is CL. I have not lanced it yet and I know all the precautions. I have cried until my eyes are swollen, I do not want to cull her...I am in heart wrenching pain on what to do. Can I build her a pin by herself and have her as my pet. She is the only one I let out with me, she follows me everywhere or will she get sicker from being depressed from being alone........


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Have you done your research? Not all lumps are abscesses, and not all abscesses are CL. If it is an abscess, get the pus tested so you can know.
If it is CL:
My opinion is not the popular one, but I say that you do _not_ have to cull her. I feel very strongly about this, because in my opinion many goats are needlessly culled because of this disease.
CL is _only_ spread when an abscess, either external or internal, ruptures. A healthy goat exposed to CL will get exactly one abscess, and never get another. Once the abscess heals, she will not be infectious to other goats, including her own kids if you decide to breed her. She will be effectively vaccinated against further infection. This is my understanding anyway.
If she gets multiple abscesses, vitamin C injections have been known to cure the disease.
Google the disease and read all you can on it. Tennessee Meat Goats website has some great articles on it.

Separate her from the other goats, practice strict biosecurity while the abscess is open, and after it heals, sterilize anything that may have been contaminated. This should be done with any abscess, even if not CL.
CL has rarely been known to pass to humans. Theoretically an abscess could form in her udder and it could contaminate the milk. You may decide not to milk her because of this small risk, but it is up to you. Definitely go Google crazy on the disease and learn all you can about it.

All is not lost!!!! :hug:


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you so much for your quick reply. I have Googled "Lumps" so much my head is hurting. I guess i am just asuming the worst. We are going to lance it today and build her a pen. I will have it tested and go from there. I am so greatful I found this site and will support it. Thank you!


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you for the hugs........


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I WOULD NOT LANCE UNTIL ITS SOFT....YOU COULD CAUSE INFECTION.

Here is my take on CL...its not a death sentence...I know some say cull..I say treat and hope for the best..I dealt with CL my first goat year...it was hard, took several years to get it off my property..Being new to goats I was told they were worm pocket. Yah right lol...after they burst all over my ranch I found out different..Here is how we handled it..If they got one CL we took care of it..if they got two..we separated them completely and took care of it...if they got it a third time we culled...My thought was if my goat got one and never got another then her immune system won...if he got it twice but them beat it then her immune system won..it just took longer...the problem with CL is sometimes they get it internal and you don't know until they become sickly..and unthrifty. So for your gal..watch the CL when it looses hair and become soft..then put her in a place where you can clean easily. She is not contagious...the pus is..it will be hard for her to be alone and it can take several weeks to months to get her ready to rejoin the herd..so lots of one on one is important...Vit B complex is a good support vitamin to help her recover..ok..that my 2 cents..: ) best of luck : ) PS its take up to two years for a CL cyst to show...so once you have had her clean for two years with not more CL..you can be pretty sure she beat it....keep her as stress free as you can..keep her wormer up to date..CD&T...and daily Vit B complex...ok..another 3 Cents there lol


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

You are welcome! I do feel your pain. Last year a new goat I had died of Johne's disease. When I found out she had it I cried my eyes out, not only for her but for my other goats. However, I have learned a lot about the disease and it isn't nearly as terrible a situation as I thought. Not the end of the world, nor even the end of my goats. But believe me when I say I know what you are going through! I firmly believe that any trouble life throws at us is there for a purpose - not to "drown us" in trouble, so to speak, but to teach us to "swim."


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## vlinealpines (Sep 23, 2012)

If you are going to test for CL, let your vet draw a culture from the unopened abscess before you lance it. I think you can manage this. Horses get a similar bacterial infection and they are managed not destroyed. I had a friend who had problems with CL in her goat herd thirty years ago and she got on top of it and has not had an outbreak in that many years. She has had many, many beautiful goats born since, totally abscess free. The bacteria can remain present, but if you have a plan, it will work.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Milkmaid, you always have the best, encouraging, and beautiful analogies! And I agree with everything you said!!


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you, you guys are awesome. I am feeling so much better and hopeful!!! I have not vacinated her yet, should I? I was waiting until she was healthier.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

CD&T is a good vaccine to give...2 cc is all she and your other goats need..: ) B complex can be given oral if you like...: )


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Okay, I have both of them. My husband Loves you all, he is beside himself due to all my crying and the emotional mess i am in. He says THANK YOU!!!!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

:grouphug: God Bless you!! I have noticed since finding this forum, that no matter what you're going through or how hard it is, you will never be alone in your goat adventures! There are some pretty awesome and knowledgeable people that lives in my computer!!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

OK, you should know that many of us DO NOT believe in this "cure" for CL. While it may or may not be a reason to cull. Remember, that most of us would not KNOWINGLY, purchase animals from a breeder who has cl on their property (I don't know what your breeding plans are). 

Please do your research, talk to your vet or other trusted person.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Milkmaid, you always have the best, encouraging, and beautiful analogies! And I agree with everything you said!!


That is very sweet of you to say, JenVise!
Thanks, Di! I know we disagree, but she should hear both sides.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Have it tested, that is the only way to know. It must be soft and ready. Have a vet do it, then seclude her until the results come back. 
But don't let it pop on it's own. I am so sorry you are dealing with this stress, in not knowing. 

praying it is not CL.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Toth is super correct on that..you dont want it to rupture ...as soon as it is soft enough for a needle to puncture it anything she rubs on can puncture it..this is when your vet should see her..Also having your vet do the lancing and cleaning is wise...that way He contains the pus


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Well, I am nowhere with the vet, he said to put her down. The test would be 100.00 and thats me bringing the sample in. I know I can not breed her so milk is out of the question. My husband is out building her a pen, I was helping but i am still upset, I tripped over a stick hit my head on a log and now have a gash.....Good Lord what a day I'm having. I want to be whats best for her, I am trying not to be selfish, I love her so much. I guess I will wait and see how she does in her new pen. If she becomes stressed and sicker I will decide then what to do. Thank you all so much.
BTW The lump has gotten bigger, she still has hair on it, should we lance or no???


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would not lance it until its soft in the center...you will need to be careful. I would be happy to give you the steps we took in dealing with it...as long as its not soft she is safe to keep with her buddies....hopefully we can get her through this and its only the one that she ever gets...


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

milkmaid said:


> That is very sweet of you to say, JenVise!
> Thanks, Di! I know we disagree, but she should hear both sides.


That's what makes this forum so great, we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable! Love it!

You can send the sample of the lump into the lab yourself. It doesn't cost anywhere near $100.00. Shame on him for gouging you on the price. Someone will give us the link, I'm sure.

If this were me, I would try not to "freak out" until the test comes back (I know that is hard). Then if it's positive, I would vaccinate all the goats on your property, even the positive one. The vaccine says it won't "cure" the positive doe...but...maybe it would help prevent future abscesses. Who knows? :shrug:


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes Happy I would love any info you can give me. Di, I live in a small town in Indiana with lots of farms, mostly horse farms. I can not find a Vet that will deal with goats, idk why. I will send the sample off myself then when I find out where to send it. I am trying to stay calm, but you know when your body and mind get on a emotional roll it's hard to stop it....lol....maybe I need a nap...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's the link for WADDL. Everything is explained on their website and if you need to call, they are very nice and easy to deal with. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/FAQ/cl.aspx


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Their phone is (509) 335-9696


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes take a nap...relax...we will all be here to help you through this no matter the outcome : ) and sounds like you have an awesome support there at home too...


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

If the lump is growing fast, it is probably not CL. CL lumps usually grow slowly, I believe. Like over several weeks or months. But still have it tested to be sure.


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

I found the site and will send it asap


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## ShannonM (Mar 29, 2011)

Angela I live in Indiana too, I don't know exactly where you are but if you're anywhere near West Central IN, I know an excellent goat vet  

When you're kidding she even takes after hours calls and will talk you through whatever problems you have, or come out to your place if you need her to!


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you Cathy. My PM is not working, I did get your info, I just can not reply.
Shannon, I live 30 min north of Louisville KY. Scottsburg In.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

your welcome....


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

My husband doesn't think its CL because it just popped up and is getting bigger. She is only 6mths old. We have had her a since Feb 12 2013.


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## ShannonM (Mar 29, 2011)

Ah, well I hope it's not CL! It could be a puncture wound or something like that, please continue to update us. Maybe you could post a couple pictures as well?


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## kezhy (Mar 31, 2013)

my Nubuan doe had an Abscess come up on her jaw, it was on top of the jaw, rather than under where the lymph nodes are. I rang the vet (im here in NSW Australia) they said not super common around my area, and most are vaccinated for it. I contacted the breeder, but couldnt get on to her. the vet recommended to just wait and see what happened, let it rupture (bad advice in my opinion) we ended up lancing, with full biosecurity precautions for it being CL, and found a grass seed in the pus. 
so remember not all abscesses are CL. The breeder finally got back to me, and told me they are all vaccinated.
I would take precautions for CL, but dont loose all hope.


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you Kezhy!!!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I had one with an abscess from a seed as well.....it happens quite frequently, actually.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Once they have the disease, the CL vaccine will not do anything to stop it. The abscesses can be internal as well and can kill them.

I would not give any vaccinations until she was well, her immune system is already working over time why stress it more?

I wouldn't freak until I had the pus cultured, there are a lot of things than can cause an abscess, especially in a kid. Just keep an eye on her and get her away form the others if the abscess is getting ready to burst.

Personally I would not keep a goat with CL because I do not have much room and no place to keep it separate. I do not want that disease on the property at all, that would be a death sentence to my goat sales.


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

Update on Val. Well we lanced or tried to anyway, nothing but blood and fluid. I know we are not out of the woods yet, it may not have been ready. She is in her new pen and is very vocal about being away from her buddies. I dressed it and will clean it daily. I think I will try warm compresses to bring it to a head. I also gave her penicillin and probiotics.
Any other sugestion? Please if you have any I will be happy to hear them.  
I hope everyone had a wonderful day!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think you got it covered...keep it flushed and clean is important.: ) Were you able to get the fluid for a sample? I dont want to get your hopes up...but no cheesy gunk could be a good sign..: )

PS Maybe B complex for the stress of todays event and having to be seperate


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## DangHungryGoatFarm (Apr 1, 2013)

I am hopeful Cathy and even if it is that nasty thing, her new pen is awesome, lots of honeysuckle. She is about 50 ft away from the others but can still see them. So she can stay there until her time with me is up. She was so good about the whole thing. The probiotic I gave her has B complex in it. Thank you so much for all your help.


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