# Paprika kidded, and this is not normal. :(



## Dayna

I'm not pleased.

I wish she had never been bred. If she was mine, she wouldn't have been. She would have to have been bred when she was only two months older than MYRA.

Anyway, I had to pull the kid. She's up, she's walking. She's not dry (fixing that now) no more kids coming. A single doeling. Which is great.

I got a birthday kid! :birthday::birthday::birthday::birthday::kidred::kidred::kidred::kidred::kidred::kidred::kidred:

So now that that's out of the way. What do I do about this little girl?

Paprika is hardly caring for her as well. Didn't lick her barely at all. It's been an hour so I'm going to go dry her.










Here she is:


----------



## goathiker

That's Selenium, one of your tabs crunched with the oil of 2 vit E's before she's 12 hours old. 1/2 cc vit B orally and plenty of colostrum. She'll perk right up in a couple days.


----------



## lottsagoats1

Not normal but not uncommon. As mentioned, give selenium. She will be fine in a couple of days.

A lot of FF's act standoffish with their first kids. Help her along until she gets used to being a mom. Just make sure baby girl gets colostrum, even if you have to milk mom and bottle baby girl for the first couple of feedings.


----------



## canyontrailgoats

Congrats! It's an easy fix with selenium, she'll be good as new in a little while (same thing occured with a kid, I freaked, easy fix and walah!)


----------



## CountyLineAcres

I had that happen (not as severe) with two of our doelings. They were born with weak pasterns, but after a week they're perfectly normal.


----------



## kccjer

We have some born that way. It's really nothing. We don't even give selenium and it usually clears up within 24 hours. Cute little thing...


----------



## Dayna

I had to milk her. Paprika just tried to kill her. Used her horns and threw her. Won't let her nurse so I milked out an ounce and bottle fed that to her.

I have her wrapped in a towel. She got warm enough to eat her milk but she's a little chilly again. It's like 70 out so its not too cold. lol

Can I put her back in there with her Mother? I would really like them to bond.

Paprika weighs 45 pounds. The baby weighs 5.6 pounds. Paprika just passed her afterbirth so maybe she'll be more willing to take to her now?


----------



## glndg

Congratulations! Hope Paprika takes to motherhood.

And Happy Birthday!arty::birthday::birthday::cake::balloons::balloons::balloons:


----------



## canyontrailgoats

Rub the afterbirth on the kid and try again, maybe paprika will be more accepting. I wouldn't leave them alone until you're sure they've bonded..


----------



## ksalvagno

Sounds like Myra has a friend. If Paprika was bred too young, she may be a bad mom this time.


----------



## kccjer

i agree not to put her back in with mom unless you can be there to supervise. Some FF don't just take to motherhood. Hopefully she'll come around for you


----------



## Dayna

Well she was sniffing and licking and when I put the baby on her she struggled at first but then let her nurse. Good sign I think~!


----------



## Dayna

A few photos:



















Pretending to be a mini munchie hehe










Now a prick eared goat!










MOMMA FEED ME PLEASE


----------



## glndg

There's that family smile again!


----------



## OGYC_Laura

It does not look like her teeth have not erupted fully... Usually a doeling will have teeth through at birth... That may be another reason for the weak back legs and pasterns... Selenium and time and she will be perfect! Already beautiful


Old Goats & Young Chicks Farm
Boer and Boer Cross


----------



## Dayna

Paprika is still a little bit weird tonight, but I'm going to leave her in there. Paprika is licking her and nuzzing her. She has gotten her horns stuck on the baby while nuzzling her... I'm worried about that. I put the baby on the nurse a bit more. She's unsteady on her feet and Paprika is keeping her legs "closed" which puts her teats like up against her legs so I separated her legs and put the baby on her. I'll keep doing that till something works. Lets hope it works.

I have to work tomorrow, but Steve will be home. He has my permission to pull that baby out of there and put her in a box till I get home if Paprika is acting weird at all or he feels she's in danger.

Also, the whites of her hooves are soft, like very very soft. I sure hope what I've done helps her. I like her already!


----------



## Dayna

I don't know if it makes any difference but the labor was really long. It started early this morning with some gentle pushing. I've never seen a goat "lose the plug" during actual hard labor before. But Paprika lost a white mucus plug. Then a couple hours later and much much much more pushing her water broke. Then the nose presented and nothing else for a half hour.

I have no idea if I did the right thing to "go in" and assist. But she laid down and just "stopped trying". So I figured I didn't have anything to lose. 

I gave some penG and some banamine. She did pass her whole placentra and ignored it. First time I've ever seen a goat ignore her placenta.


----------



## goathiker

Just because...

FKS... How it happens... (a detailed scientific explanation of
the process...)

For those that find this stuff interesting, this info on how FKS
comes about in goat birthing originated, with some species
transfer from canine to caprine to help us understand how it
happens in goats as well, from notes taken at a veterinary
seminar by Jacob Mosier DVM, a well respected canine veterinarian
at Kansas State University College of Veterinary Medicine. His
research on the phenomenon concluded that: At birth a
newborn puppy should have a pH level of 7.4. A puppy can be hung
up in the birth canal for too long or the bitch might not remove
the sac, causing delayed breathing. We need to be sure it
breathes fairly soon because the longer it doesnt, the
more its blood pH level drops, the more acidotic it becomes.
During the time its still wet (about 20 minutes), the pH
drops to about 7.1. If it drops to 6.6 the heart will stop.
Despite the delay in the birth process, once revived and
breathing FPS pups appear healthy and strong. But then around the
36th to 72nd hour ?? they begin to fade and lose vigor, and
the tongue is pale. By the 96th hour, without correction of the
pH balance (that's where Baking Soda comes into the picture!),
thus reversing the acid condition that has begun, they become
flaccid and die.

Sue Reith.


----------



## Dayna

FKS? I'm totally lost.


----------



## happybleats

congrats on the baby Dayna...in your care Im sure she will do just fine : ) keep a close eye on mom...sounds like a scary start...hopefully she will be nice now...


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

I think Jill is on the wrong thread...


----------



## kccjer

Dayna it looks like she is doing a lot better! I love her ears and her color....can't wait to see more pics. You did the right thing going in when no progress after 30 minutes. Good job all the way around!


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

FKS= Floppy Kid Syndrome


----------



## OGYC_Laura

The soft hooves is from being slightly premie.. They will firm up on their own.. 
One quarter if a teaspoon of baking soda with about ten cc of water once a day for a couple days will not hurt anything but if something is off it will help a lot
Mine are ready to kid any minute I hope for some cuties like yours 


Old Goats & Young Chicks Farm
Boer and Boer Cross


----------



## HoosierShadow

How is the baby doing? Have you named her yet? She is absolutely adorable! Congrats! Keep at Paprika, encourage her, and praise her for being a good Mommy  
We have had some young does act weird towards babies before, but they got used to them, understood their job, and all was fine. Those first few days with some were touch & go. I think having a hard labor can also mess with bonding. Scald her verbally if you see her act acting weird/mean towards the baby, let her know what she is doing is not okay. We have a doe that was favoring a baby last year, and wanting to push the other aside, and that's how I got her to stop and accept them both. She's not used to my loud, stern voice, I usually baby talk the girls lol Well she knew when I spoke like this that she was doing something she shouldn't be doing, she stopped acting that way and accepted both babies.
I'm glad you have your husband to help you when your not home. Good Luck, please keep us updated, praying Paprika figures this Mom stuff out soon, and cant' wait to see more pics of the baby!


----------



## Goats Rock

If the hooves are still soft, dip them in the iodine dip to help prevent infection.
The soft hooves can transmit bacteria like the umbilical cord can. I try and 
dip all the newborn hooves- I guess it helps.

Cute baby!


----------



## Dayna

We were going through names while holding her and when we got to Ashley she started hollering. So she chose Ashley. haha


----------



## GreenMountainNigerians

Congratulations!❤


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## GreenMountainNigerians

Ashley is a sweet name!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Trickyroo

Congratulations Dayna and Happy Birthday :hug::birthday::cake:
I had to read your first post twice to actually realize it was YOUR birthday !
Ashley is beautiful ! Her coloring reminds me of Baby Hallie when she was born ! I agree , some selenium will help her legs become stronger. Paprika will get it , she's being so much better then one of my does , Rosie was with her baby. I know its scary worrying about leaving Ashely with her. With multiple checks throughout the night , she should be ok. What a relief you have Steve to help


----------



## Dayna

The kid is nursing, peeing and pooping. She doesn't seem to have much energy though. Usually kids are up and bouncing by now but she's just sleeping all the time. Do you think it's because she was a bit preemie? No playing, no bouncing. If she's not eating, she's asleep.


----------



## OGYC_Laura

I would not worry much for next the next day... But a few drops of molasses or kayro syrup a few times a day won't hurt... Sometimes when they are slightly early they just sleep for a day or two...

Just make sure she is getting plenty to eat


Old Goats & Young Chicks Farm
Boer and Boer Cross


----------



## ksalvagno

Did you give her selenium and B Complex?


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna , it took quite a few days for my Nubian babies to venture around and play. My Nigerians , they were bouncing the very first second they came out , lol.. My Tricky's babies weren't that active the first few days either , then they all caught up and the bouncing baby games began 
I did give them all their selenium and they all nursed well , i jus think it takes some time to get over their ride into the world


----------



## happybleats

You can give a tiny bit of honey on her tongue see if that perks her up...B complex helps...but she may just need a few more days... as long as she is acting well other wise...



HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!


----------



## toth boer goats

Happy Birthday Dayna. :birthday:

All great advice.

I would try to brace the legs so the tendons can tighten back into place quicker. Make it to where she can get up and down on her own and support those weak area's. Selenium is good to do and will help. Also, if you have vit A&D that may help as well.


----------



## OGYC_Laura

How is your baby?


Old Goats & Young Chicks Farm
Boer and Boer Cross


----------



## Dayna

She is still sleeping a lot but I saw her bounce just slightly today. Back legs look a lot better fairly normal. Front legs getting more normal but still not great. Nursing well! Cried once today, such a nice sound.


----------



## ksalvagno

Premies can take quite a while to be bouncy. Glad she is doing well.


----------



## toth boer goats

Glad she is doing better.


----------



## Dayna

Ashley says that today is a good day to learn to hop!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204416663191362


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

How cute! Glad she's strengthening up, and Paprika accepted her!


----------



## Trickyroo

Yay for Ashley :clap: She is adorable Dayna


----------



## Dayna

Does anyone know what her coat color is? It's black at the roots, so if I shaved her she'd look all black. It's a pretty purple tan from mid shaft to the tips.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

Looks like her and mom are both bezoar with tan base. Ashley might have darker points, but Paprika could also darken up as she gets healthier.

Most colors vary along the hair shaft to some degree.


----------



## ksalvagno

She must be feeling good. Too cute!


----------



## GreenMountainNigerians

Very cute!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

Im worried about her weight. The baby. Paprika walks away every time she tries to nurse. Shes put on less than a pound since birth. Good news is her feet are all perfect and corrected. Shes full of energy. Im wondering if I should offer her extra bottles or pull her and put her in with Myra. I just dont know. I am thinking of drying Paprika off. Shes so thin and needs to finish growing herself.


----------



## Dayna

Here she is. Sweet girl. I am so happy her feet/limbs are corrected.


----------



## canyontrailgoats

Sounds like she could use some extra milk, and it would certainly be easier on paprika. Is Myra your other doe in milk? Would she nurse the kid? If so that would probably be your best option.


----------



## Dayna

Myra is my blind doeling that needs a companion. I would just milk from another doe and bottle feed her if need be. My biggest concern is that Paprika is not yet a year old. This must be very taxing on her underdeveloped body. I would never ever have chosen to breed her.


----------



## canyontrailgoats

Ok lol, I assumed it was a milk doe! Yes I think you're on the right track by wanting to bottle feed. That way the kid gets enough milk and paprika can recover. Or leave them together and have mama on a high-protein diet for growth. But I think drying her up is the way to go.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I would check and make sure Paprika doesn't have a congested udder, mastitis or sore teats first. And as under-conditioned as she is, it might be in her best interest to either dry her up, or feed the heck out of her.


----------



## Dayna

Her udder is beautiful. I messed with it today and didnt seem sore. In fact Im looking forward to milking her next time! I am feeding her all the grain/alfalfa pellets/alfalfa hay/orchard grass she can stuff her face with. At what age should I pull/dry off? Kid will be a week old Sunday.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

You can pull her kid now if you want and dry Paprika up now if you want, or you can pull her and milk Paprika, at her condition I would probably only milk once a day. Ashley might not be getting enough milk from Paprika due to the condition she's in or because she's so young, so you could also see if she will take a bottle in supplement to what she gets from nursing and she won't be trying to nurse off Paprika so much.


----------



## happybleats

I agree... I would pull and bottle feed the baby...dry mom off and give her recovery time...she has next season to impress you : ) and Myra could use another friend


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

I don't like pulling them unless I have to, separation is stressful too. I would just supplement her, maybe she won't take as much out of Paprika if she's getting more from you.


----------



## Kiddskids

Mine was born like that gave him a BOSE shot and a selenium shot. We are splinting him with pop sickle sticks and horse wrap which is really helping


Chloe Kidd

Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I believe my decision to pull Ashley was a good one. I pulled her last night and bottle fed her. She's not thrilled with it but took to it okay. 

I went to milk Paprika this morning to see how much milk she's producing, probably a 14 hour fill since I pulled Ashley, and she had less than 8 ounces. So either she's drinking her own milk or just not making enough to feed the baby. So that made me feel quite a bit better about my decision to just pull her. Paprika is a little stressed, but eating fine. Just calling a bit. Ashley hasn't called to Paprika even once. She's happy in there with Myra and keeps trying to nurse off Myra. Its pouring today so I'll probably wait until tomorrow to put her back out with the herd. Don't want to toss her into the rain after she's gotten used to being so dry all the time. lol


----------



## Trickyroo

Maybe worm Paprika because of the stress of the separation and her condition just to be safe ...... I think it was a good idea to pull Ashley too 
Paprika wouldn't be able to gain weight nursing a baby and that could be extremely dangerous for the both of them. Good call Dayna. 
I would give Paprika some B conpiex and Probios just be safe.


----------



## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> Maybe worm Paprika because of the stress of the separation and her condition just to be safe ...... I think it was a good idea to pull Ashley too
> Paprika wouldn't be able to gain weight nursing a baby and that could be extremely dangerous for the both of them. Good call Dayna.
> I would give Paprika some B conpiex and Probios just be safe.


You and I think alike! I started her on sulmet for cocci this morning and when she's done with that I'll do ivomec plus.  Unless you think I can do both at once? I can do an injection of the ivomec plus, she is a little anemic.

I'll do a b complex injection this afternoon.


----------



## happybleats

you can do both Ivomec plus and Sulmet at the same time : )


----------



## Dayna

Sweet!


----------



## canyontrailgoats

Sounds like you made a smart choice, especially for Paprika's sake. Now she can grow and gain weight, while baby stays well fed. And you can medicate Paprika without worrying about the kid nursing her. PLUS Myra has a buddy! ...so yeah, it works out great for everyone


----------

