# Ellie- I spoke too quick



## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

You all remember Ellie and her off Rumen problems in the past 4-5 Weeks. I posted a picture a couple or 3 days ago about how well she was doing. Well yesterday evening she would not come into eat her evening feed. She also didn’t come in that morning for feed time but stayed at the hay feeder eating hay. I just put in my memory to watch her, so yesterday evening she came when I called her but came and just smell the feed, maybe ate 3 teaspoon fulls and quit. Same thing this morning so I went and got my supplies and pen her up by herself. Temp checked at 99.8. I gave her a heavy dose of probotics gel (12ml) a dose of vitamin E gel with selium and 120 ml of flat dark beer, (all I had on hand) when I left her she was eating hay. I did not have time to get green oak leaves but will this evening. I also have some slippery bark elm but she would not eat it top dressed over her food yesterday evening. How else can I give this slippery elm.? This time it was 9 days after her last stretch of Cydectin/Valbazen mixed wormer. This is also about 3 weeks from last off rumen making it the 3rd or 4th time in the last couple of months. It appears to reoccur every 3-3-1/2 weeks. Ideas on what I’m not doing? Help


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> You all remember Ellie and her off Rumen problems in the past 4-5 Weeks. I posted a picture a couple or 3 days ago about how well she was doing. Well yesterday evening she would not come into eat her evening feed. She also didn't come in that morning for feed time but stayed at the hay feeder eating hay. I just put in my memory to watch her, so yesterday evening she came when I called her but came and just smell the feed, maybe ate 3 teaspoon fulls and quit. Same thing this morning so I went and got my supplies and pen her up by herself. Temp checked at 99.8. I gave her a heavy dose of probotics gel (12ml) a dose of vitamin E gel with selium and 120 ml of flat dark beer, (all I had on hand) when I left her she was eating hay. I did not have time to get green oak leaves but will this evening. I also have some slippery bark elm but she would not eat it top dressed over her food yesterday evening. How else can I give this slippery elm.? This time it was 9 days after her last stretch of Cydectin/Valbazen mixed wormer. This is also about 3 weeks from last off rumen making it the 3rd or 4th time in the last couple of months. It appears to reoccur every 3-3-1/2 weeks. Ideas on what I'm not doing? Help











This is pic about a few days ago (3-4)


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I went back to my records and see this happens every month now about 30 days apart for the last 3 months.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Dark beer multiple times a day until the temp gets back up.

I would cease use of chemical wormers for her, it seems like her gut cannot handle it.

Mix 1/2- 1 teaspoon of slippery elm with water and drench it 2x today.

No grain for her whatsoever. No grain again, in my opinion, she’s a “no grain goat” with that weak of a stomach.

I’d keep her on regular probiotics and diamond V yeast.

I’d also order Land of Havilah’s GI Back on Tract to use for a cleansing period, then order Fir Meadow LLC’s GI Soother for maintenance.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Please refrain from giving any antibiotics.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Dark beer multiple times a day until the temp gets back up.
> 
> I would cease use of chemical wormers for her, it seems like her gut cannot handle it.
> 
> ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Is her temp up yet? If not I’d try and get her warmed up manually.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Is her temp up yet? If not I'd try and get her warmed up manually.


 M


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

??


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> ??


Temp was 103.1F this evening. I gave her the Slippery Elm 1/2 teaspoon mixed with a little water (26 ml). She wouldn't eat the alfalfa pellets this evening but she was eating hay. I left the alfalfa out in the pen she is in. I'll give more probotics in the morning and more Slippery Elm mix. When I put the alfalfa in the trough she came to it and nosed around looking for the oats then went to eat hay. I had put out alfalfa and oats mixed this morning and this evening all of that was gone. We will see in the morning if she eats the alfalfa only. I'll try and cut her some green oak leaves in the morning. She won't eat most leaves but oak she likes. I heard her grind her teeth a little bit not near as much as the last time she went off feed. Unless you say different in the morning I'm doing another temp check, 10 ml probotics gel, slippery elm mix 1/2 tablespoon, green oak leaves and maybe a shot of B complex (10ml).


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are going to keep her around, try doing probiotics daily for a month. Obviously you will need to do the other things to get her over the hump. But if this is happening monthly, that is a problem. May as well see what daily probiotics will do.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Okay good.

No grain tomorrow.

Probiotics gel, b complex, slippery elm, oak leaves, and maybe even one more half dose of beer tomorrow morning.

Do make sure to order the herb blends I mentioned they are paramount!


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Okay good.
> 
> No grain tomorrow.
> 
> ...


I am out of black beer. The stores here don't carry it. I'll have to wait and go to Vidalia this week end to get it. The other stuff I'll look into. I think I have info on on Fir meadows.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Yogurt as a replacement.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TEMP this morning was 99.9F . i gave her the slippery elm drench, a shot of 6ml B complex Fortified, i cup (container of yogurt) , alfalfa pellets with a little slippery elm mixed in it, green oak limbs and hay and fresh water.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

She is very cold for a goat. Try warm her up manually if nothing is working. Her temp must come up.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Still way too low.

Warm her up. Blow dryer, rub her, blanket.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Heat lamps, help.
If she is penned up at night or when her temp is sub.

She also needs to move around for her rumen health too. 
It also helps raise her temp when everything is working properly.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Is she eating hay?

Has she received any fecals for coccidia?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Is she eating hay?
> 
> Has she received any fecals for coccidia?


This evening temp was 103.2f . I gave her some probotics 5ml paste, slippery elm 1 teaspoon drench 60ml, 1 cup yogurt, 6 ml fortified B Complex, green oak leaves and hay. I listen to her stomach and heard some gurgling sound. Her temp is a little high but this morning it was low. I did see her poop good pellets. As for as Coccidia, she got a dose of toltrazuril one month ago today. She was also treated for barberpole worms. I'm going to let her out in my long nursery pasture tomorrow with one of her buddies.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I get that she got the dose of these wormers but did you do any fecals?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Is there perhaps any browse or plants in her enclosure that she may have an allergy to/poisonous?

Definitely give probios daily regardless of temp. Give 1/2 teaspoon of slippery elm as a maintenance dose daily. B complex for at least a week. Yogurt or beer 2x a week regularly. Diamond V yeast added to her food.

Do a gut cleanse with this: https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/product/gi-back-on-tract/

Daily support with this: https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p811/GI_Soother™_Digestive_System_Support_16_oz.html

In case there's something viral or bacterial, make sure she's getting at least 2 cloves of garlic daily.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I get that she got the dose of these wormers but did you do any fecals?


I did a fecal thru my vet. No Coccidia but fair amount of barberpole. I will copy her history below ( if I can) out of her chart. I keep records of everything I do wilth dates and what's done.

Starting with July 2020
7/3/20	Off feed at evening feed, grinding teeth a little. Get temp in the morning and give probotics. 
7/4/20	Temp 101.7 f. Gave probiotics and b complex shot. Green leaves at evening feed. 
7/5/20	Temp this evening 102.7f, gave her one yeast cap in drench gun. Appears to be doing ok. 
7/7/20	Gave 5 ml b complex shot 
7/8/20	Eating good 
7/26/20	Notice that she was off feed again caught her and checked temp. 105.2 f, gave probotics, replaime, b complex shot 5 ml and will start on Noromycin 300 in the morning. 
7/27/20	1st Noromycin shot Gave probiotics temp 103.1 
7/28/20	2nd Noromycin shot Gave probiotics temp 101.7 
7/29/20	3rd Noromycin shot 
7/30/20	4th Noromycin shot 
7/31/20	5th Noromycin shot 
7/31/20	Trim hoofs 
8/1/20	Started on b complex, cayenne mix, redcell, probotics and 5 diff leaves and grass Gave 1st Cydectin dose& new Coccidia medicine 
8/2/20	Same as as above 
8/3/20	Same as as above 
8/4/20	Same as as above 
8/5/20	Same as as above 
8/6/20	Same as as above 
8/6/20	Release to pasture 
8/7/20	Continue with redcell today then once a week. 
8/10/20	2nd dose of Cydectin 
8/23/20	Last dose of Cydectin

8/29/20	Ellie off feed again. Penned up by herself. May give B complex shot in the morning and replamin . Saw clumpy stool this morning and got sample for fecal. 
8/30/20 Temp 103 f , gave new probiotics powder, wouldn't eat alfalfa, fed green oak, hay

8/31/20	Took fecal to Vet 
8/31/20	Vet said temp a tad high, give 2-1/2 Nuflor gold. Has fair amount of BP worms, treat with Cydectin and give 10 ml B complex shot (2-5 ml) shots 
8/31/20	I gave invermetin @ 16 ml this mornings and probotics gel. 
8/31/20	Also gave 5ml B complex, probiotics gel, temp 103 f, sprayed with fly spray, fed green leaves. 
9/1/20	Give probotics powder in a drench,feed green leaves, give 5ml B complex, probotics gel, spray fly spray Start redcell this evening, 5ml Valbazen	
9/1/20	Set out black beer and gave 60-90 ml, this evening, also 6 ml b complex, green oak leaves 
9/2/20	Give 6 ml b complex, 60 ml dark flat beer 
9/3/20	Morning, Gave 5 ml B Complex, 6 ml probotics paste, Evening, gave probioticsand redcell 6ml 
Let out in long nursery, she ate grass 
9/4/20	Probotics gel 5 ml 
9/6/20	Probotics gel 5 ml 
9/11/20	2nd 10 day follow up dose of ivermectin and Valbazen, dose of probotics paste, redcell 6ml 
9/21/20	Last dose of Cydectin / Valbazen 10ml / 5ml

9/30/20	Off rumen again, temp 99.8F, gave 12-15ml probotics gel, 5 ml vitamin E / Selium gel, 120ml flat dark beer, penned her up with hay and feed and water 
10/1/20	morning Temp 99.9f , gave slippery elm, B Complex shot, green leaves. 
"10/01/20 "	evening Temp 103.2f, gave slippery elm, B Complex shot, probotics gel paste,cup yogurt, green leaves.

10/2/20-fed 2 garlic cloves with peanut butter, 5ml probotics paste, 100.9 temp, fed oak leaves, listen to stomach, gurling sounds, let out in long nursery with her buddy.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I did a fecal thru my vet. No Coccidia but fair amount of barberpole. I will copy her history below ( if I can) out of her chart. I keep records of everything I do wilth dates and what's done.
> 
> Starting with July 2020
> 7/3/20	Off feed at evening feed, grinding teeth a little. Get temp in the morning and give probotics.
> ...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did she have damage from coccidia as a kid? With this being monthly, to me says damage to her intestinal system.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

So you gave toltrazuril even though there wasn't a positive fecal?

Thank you for your concise records, good on you for keeping things well organized.

Yep, definitely her gut is in need of some serious help!! I would order DWA from Fir Meadow as well, also essential oils from DT so we can get her on a natural worming regimen, as I really don't want her to receive any more chemicals.

Also all this I said above:


NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Dark beer multiple times a day until the temp gets back up.
> 
> I would cease use of chemical wormers for her, it seems like her gut cannot handle it.
> 
> ...


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> So you gave toltrazuril even though there wasn't a positive fecal?
> 
> Thank you for your concise records, good on you for keeping things well organized.
> 
> ...


Temp this evening was 103.1f. I gave probotics paste, yogurt ( she loves this) rumen is gurgling and she is chewing her cud. What yogurt I had left over this morning and mixed it in her alfalfa and this evening the same. She ate all of her alfalfa with the yogurt mixed in it. The people I got her from feeds a lot of whole corn. Could this be some of the problem?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If they feed a lot of corn, I suspect they probably didn't do coccidia prevention when she was a kid. The association is that they obviously think differently.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

The slippery elm (over time) will help resolve gut damage from coccidia.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> The slippery elm (over time) will help resolve gut damage from coccidia.


10/3/20-Temp 100.9, gave 2 garlic cloves, yogurt added to fee Temp 100.9, gave 2 garlic cloves, 1 cup yogurt added to feed, let Lottie and Aja inwith her, top dressed feed with slippery elm, let Lottie and Aja in with her, top dress feed with slippery elm.
It seems temp is lower in the mornings.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

That’s fairly normal - to be lower in the morning. As long as she stays above 100 I wouldn’t freak out.

When you say you top dressed her feed, you mean her alfalfa pellets are grain? I strictly would not feed her grain, only forage pellets.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> That's fairly normal - to be lower in the morning. As long as she stays above 100 I wouldn't freak out.
> 
> When you say you top dressed her feed, you mean her alfalfa pellets are grain? I strictly would not feed her grain, only forage pellets.


No oats, just alfalfa pellets. I have let her 2 buddies she grew up with (2 female bore goats bought from same person) in with her. I mixed the alfalfa pellets with the left over yogurt (stirred in) and sprinkled the pellets with slippery elm. At first the 3 act like they didn't want it, so I left it in their feed trough and this morning it was clean, so probably all three got some. 
This evening they all 3 came up for feed time and all they got was alfalfa pellets. The other 2 looked at me with sad eyes, kinda like, "she is the one that don't need grain, not us", lol I didn't do anything this evening as I have been cutting grass all day and changing out light bulbs in 7 outside yard fixtures with a total of 18 bulbs. . By the time I finished grass cutting and changed bulbs we where late feeding and I forgot to take thermometer and all my medicine with me to pasture. She look fine and was acting normal so I didn't go back to get it. I do it in the morning since she was ok this evening.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Has she been checked for tick diseases? Giardia?

Does she like real ginger, ginger snaps? Those seem to really help my goats when their belly is off kilter. I swear by ginger for gut issues.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Has she been checked for tick diseases? Giardia?
> 
> Does she like real ginger, ginger snaps? Those seem to really help my goats when their belly is off kilter. I swear by ginger for gut issues.


No on the tick disease, ginger snaps I don't know.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> No on the tick disease, ginger snaps I don't know.


She doesn't have diarrhea and is now popping pellets galore.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> She doesn't have diarrhea and is now popping pellets galore.


10/4/20-Temp 103.1, gave alfalfa pellets with slippery elm top dressed. My tube of probotics paste had run out even though it still showed 10ml. I give her some more of that this evening. Also yogurt in on the menu
This evening. I stir in a cup in the alfalfa with slippery elm top dressed. I'll also try 2 more garlic cloves also wrapped in peanut butter. I did hear rumen sounds while checking temp.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I just did a fecal myself and am very disappointed with my findings. I don’t know what I’m doing and appear to be about blind when it comes to focusing. I counted over 36 eggs if I’m seeing the right thing using the green line McMaster slide. I used the 5x which didn’t do much for me, switched to the 10x which was better but still moving everything by hand is a task. Are they some reasonable camera scopes that make this easier to do that won’t break the bank? If 36 x 50 = 1800 then my worming did nothing. They all appeared to be barberpole or strongyloids.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Of what species? You may want to send to www.meadowmistlabservice.com to confirm if unsure.

Again, I beg of you to try herbal methods (herbal formula and essential oils). Chemically worming will set her behind, and this time it may be for good.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I just did a fecal myself and am very disappointed with my findings. I don't know what I'm doing and appear to be about blind when it comes to focusing. I counted over 36 eggs if I'm seeing the right thing using the green line McMaster slide. I used the 5x which didn't do much for me, switched to the 10x which was better but still moving everything by hand is a task. Are they some reasonable camera scopes that make this easier to do that won't break the bank? If 36 x 50 = 1800 then my worming did nothing. They all appeared to be barberpole or strongyloids.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/04/20 evening temp 103.4f, gave probotics gel 10 ml, 2 cloves garlic, top dressed Alfalfa pellets with 1 cup yogurt and 3 tablespoons of slippery elm . I am feeding this mix to her other 2 buddies because they have all be whole corn fed just like Ellie was. I didn't give any wormer because I don't know for sure what to give her. I know Fir Meadows has something but I haven't ordered it yet. In the mean time I'm giving garlic (2 cloves a day). I fed them 1-1/2 cans of alfalfa between the 3 of them mixed with the yogurt and slippery elm and they cleaned the trough. Any ideas for a wormer until I can get something? I had some essential oils like myrrh, frankincense and peppermint . How would I give this?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Fir Meadow LLC has two formulas you need:

https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/..._supports_body_in_foreign_matter_removal.html

https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p811/GI_Soother™_Digestive_System_Support_16_oz.html

Essential oils MUST be food grade, young living or DoTerra brand.

Wild orange, clove, oregano, DigestZen, lemongrass or lemon. Thyme is helpful. Blends OnGuard or Thieves also works.

More info here: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/using-essential-oils-to-worm.188848/

You can also make this to help target the BP in the meantime:
1/2 teaspoon of cayenne, cinnamon, slippery elm bark powder, and ginger (can be substituted for a slice of raw ginger the size of a quarter about 1/2 cm thick). Blend with 1 raw clove of garlic, molasses, apple cider vinegar, and enough water to drench.

Give 2-4 times daily.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Fir Meadow LLC has two formulas you need:
> 
> https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/..._supports_body_in_foreign_matter_removal.html
> 
> ...


I work every and have nobody to give anything from 8-4pm. I could do it in the morning and 5pm in the evenings.??


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Fir Meadow LLC has two formulas you need:
> 
> https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/..._supports_body_in_foreign_matter_removal.html
> 
> ...


I have most of this and I have made a mix for three of my bores to start in the morning. I increased everything 4 times so as to make a quart of this mixture. I didn't have ginger so I used a little clove. This digging around in some info on herbal worming one guy said he added clove to give to unbred goats. I didn't add but 1/2 the amount of clove to this mix. I have it ready to give in the morning. If they are PG do you think it will hurt them? Just checking. How much do I give of this mix?? 10cc, 15cc? Also to mention, I have sent Fir Meadows an email about what I want . I can't order anything off their site as I can't find a shopping cart to add to. It may take me a while to get what was suggested from them.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I have most of this and I have made a mix for three of my bores to start in the morning. I increased everything 4 times so as to make a quart of this mixture. I didn't have ginger so I used a little clove. This digging around in some info on herbal worming one guy said he added clove to give to unbred goats. I didn't add but 1/2 the amount of clove to this mix. I have it ready to give in the morning. If they are PG do you think it will hurt them? Just checking. How much do I give of this mix?? 10cc, 15cc? Also to mention, I have sent Fir Meadows an email about what I want . I can't order anything off their site as I can't find a shopping cart to add to. It may take me a while to get what was suggested from them.


Also how long/ often do I give this mixture??


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Also how long/ often do I give this mixture??


Headed to pasture, I'm going to start with 12ml of above mixture. It's kinda hot to taste. I hope this isn't to much. I'll give another dose this evening after work.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Of what species? You may want to send to www.meadowmistlabservice.com to confirm if unsure.
> 
> Again, I beg of you to try herbal methods (herbal formula and essential oils). Chemically worming will set her behind, and this time it may be for good.


That's what I'm trying to do, but with Fir Meadows i don't have a shopping cart to order from. I'm waiting on their response. sent them an email yesterday, they have no phone number i can find, so the herbs are held up for the moment then no telling when i'll get them.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Fir meadows does. Click on a product in there herbal mixes page, it has an add to cart option.

And if pregnant avoid clove. It’s ok in moderation but since your not doing exact calculations I would leave it out for pregnant does.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Fir meadows does. Click on a product in there herbal mixes page, it has an add to cart option.
> 
> And if pregnant avoid clove. It's ok in moderation but since your not doing exact calculations I would leave it out for pregnant does.


I got the dewormer and GI soother ordered today . Also ordered their essential oils like oregano, lemongrass, clove, and something else. They didn't have wild orange, digestzen and thyme. Now I getting a message they didn't get the order because webly was down. I don't know if it's meant for me or not.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Give a double 3x a day or triple dose 2x a day of each for the next 5 days. Then back off to a normal dose twice a day for 5 more days.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Give a double 3x a day or triple dose 2x a day of each for the next 5 days. Then back off to a normal dose twice a day for 5 more days.


So I would give 30cc twice a day for each goat? Morning and evening.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> So I would give 30cc twice a day for each goat? Morning and evening.


We are talking about my mix right? I haven't gotten the Fir meadow stuff yet.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

No that is the directions for the fir Meadow herbs WHEN you get them!!


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> No that is the directions for the fir Meadow herbs WHEN you get them!!


Ok, so I just keep on with my mix until I receive the Fir Meadows. I just got an email a few minutes ago saying my order had been pulled and will ship tomorrow.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Ok, so I just keep on with my mix until I receive the Fir Meadows. I just got an email a few minutes ago saying my order had been pulled and will ship tomorrow.


10/6/20	Temp 101.9, gave 15ml of new mix*, gave 5ml probiotics gel, fed slippery elm over feed (alfalfa pellets only)

*mix being the cayenne, cinnamon, slippery elm, raw garlic

What should if anything I be adding to the calcium high alfalfa and slippery elm?
I have also switch her buddies to same food and treatment of mix and probotics.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> 10/6/20 Temp 101.9, gave 15ml of new mix*, gave 5ml probiotics gel, fed slippery elm over feed (alfalfa pellets only)
> 
> *mix being the cayenne, cinnamon, slippery elm, raw garlic
> 
> ...


https://www.diamondv.com/products/

Flax meal ( a few tsp) is a nice addition for extra gut health, it's good fiber. Optional, don't need to add it. Pumpkin seeds are a good add for parasites and good for the stomach.

Did you order the DoTerra oils?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> https://www.diamondv.com/products/
> 
> Flax meal ( a few tsp) is a nice addition for extra gut health, it's good fiber. Optional, don't need to add it. Pumpkin seeds are a good add for parasites and good for the stomach.
> 
> Did you order the DoTerra oils?


I ordered some of the oils from Fir Meadows and wild orange and digestzen from Amazon. Should have everything in a week now they say. Where do you get pumpkin seed.?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I ordered some of the oils from Fir Meadows and wild orange and digestzen from Amazon. Should have everything in a week now they say. Where do you get pumpkin seed.?


Do you mean unshelled pumpkin seed or raw shelled pumpkin seed?


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I give my two raw pumpkin seeds. They love it. 
If you can try some raw vegetables.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Doesn’t matter if it’s in a shell or not but raw.

DigestZen is important, but I would go and buy from DoTerra and cancel your order on amazon. They are often not the real thing, you cannot trust them. If you read the reviews you will see.

I get pumpkin seeds online, anywhere.

I would not go for fruits and vegetables for this one, sorry.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

It said Dotterra for brand name. I'm not sure about fir meadows brand. All should be here Friday or Saturday maybe. do you use the raw shelled pumpkin seed or the shelled? they also have a roasted one.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I know it says DoTerra but a lot of them are knock offs. Read the reviews. Most come smelling completely different. Only buy oils direct from DoTerra.

I’m not sure if Fir Meadow’s are for internal use... does she say they are?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

i am now trying a 10 month old Billy named Abel on the same mixture with the cayanne and etc. He wants to eat nothing but the oats in the alfalfa oat mix, leaving the alfalfa at feeding time. for the third feeding he has turned his nose up at the alfalfa top dressed with slippery elm. Any suggestions???


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Just keep him on grass hay. Boys shouldn’t have oats (and most don’t need alfalfa without oats) anyway.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Just keep him on grass hay. Boys shouldn't have oats (and most don't need alfalfa without oats) anyway.


Ellie report- 
10/7/20	Evening temp 103.9, gave garlic cloves 2, new mix 15ml, probotics paste, yogurt and slippery elm in alfalfa pellets.
She was grinding her teeth a little bit. Digestzen is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Hope it's the good one. Wild orange 4 days later.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She may be getting close then.

Keep an eye on her temp.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> She may be getting close then.
> 
> Keep an eye on her temp.


10/8/20	Morning temp 101.8, gave new mix 15ml, probotics gel, slippery elm on feed with a little probotics powder


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> She may be getting close then.


Close to what?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Close to what?


she might be pregnant im thinking as she was with the Billy in mid July to mid August


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Here is what I got in today. It says for internal use. Hope it is the right one.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Here is what I got in today. It says for internal use. Hope it is the right one.
> View attachment 189289
> View attachment 189291


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

TCOLVIN said:


> She was grinding her teeth a little bit. Digestzen is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Hope it's the good one. Wild orange 4 days later.


 LOL, I read it too quickly and missed the part about Digestzen.
I was thinking she was ready to kid. ops2shy):heehee:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If you smell it, it should be strong and minty and potent.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If you smell it, it should be strong and minty and potent.


how do and how much do i give her? how often? It was not leaking and i could smell it before i took it out of the wrapper, smells strong and good. First time i've ever smell any. could i give it this evening with a little olive oil? if so, how much? if too many questions I'm sorry, I'm treading in uncharted water


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> how do and how much do i give her? how often? It was not leaking and i could smell it before i took it out of the wrapper, smells strong and good. First time i've ever smell any. could i give it this evening with a little olive oil? if so, how much? if too many questions I'm sorry, I'm treading in uncharted water


My goodness don't you ever apologize for having questions!  :squish:

1 drop daily for 3 days straight. In 2-3cc olive oil.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> My goodness don't you ever apologize for having questions!  :squish:
> 
> 1 drop daily for 3 days straight. In 2-3cc olive oil.


My wife picked some pumpkin seed but they are roasted and salted. That won't work will it? I just need plain in shell or raw right?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> My wife picked some pumpkin seed but they are roasted and salted. That won't work will it? I just need plain in shell or raw right?


Raw and unsalted.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Raw and unsalted.


Gave her the cayenne mix, feed 2 large garlic cloves, gave one drop of digestzen with 3ml olive oil and checked temp. Temp was a little high but may have been in sun this evening. Temp was 104.1 f. I caught a fecal sample I'll try to run tomorrow. I just washed off the dirt and dried it off and put in my goat fridge in a cup covered up.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Are you gonna hate me if I recommend one more fir Meadow herb? HerBiotic.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Are you gonna hate me if I recommend one more fir Meadow herb? HerBiotic.


No, I don't hate anybody. I have not received what I have ordered from them yet. What does HerBiotic do?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> No, I don't hate anybody. I have not received what I have ordered from them yet. What does HerBiotic do?


Had to leave early this morning so I fed earlier. I gave the cayenne mix but didn't do temps. They all where piping pellets like a bomber drops bombs. It was dark but I could hear them. They all seemed in good spirits. It is ok to give the digestzen pjust before feeding? I hope so because o can't do it during the day , only in early morning or evening. I might could on the week ends.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

DigestZen is fine any time of day.

The HerBiotic is an herbal antibiotic, and in case there is something bacterial causing this, it would help.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> DigestZen is fine any time of day.
> 
> The HerBiotic is an herbal antibiotic, and in case there is something bacterial causing this, it would help.


Ok, let me get this other in and I'll order some. This evening her temp was 103.1 f. I gave the 2 cloves (large) of garlic with a wipe of peanut butter. Top dressed the alfalfa pellets with a little probiotics. I have put her buddies with her and she eats better. I did a fecal on her this evening and She still have a heavy worm load of BP. What was the cayenne pepper mix for? Worms or stomach? I just gave her a drop of digestzen with 2 ml olive oil mixed. Also on another note I have been giving the cayenne pepper mix to all four. This evening after I gave the mix and just before I left one of her buddies (Aja) started long blates like she was in pain. Just walking around in the pen and stop and blate out. I went back to check her and she went over and started eating alfalfa pellets. Then she would walk off and start blating again. Finally she stopped and I left pasture. Do you think the cayenne mix may not be good for her?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You can stop it, it may just be strong or a little spicy. Some goats register the spice and some don’t.

As for the wormload, there’s not much we can do about it until we get the fir Meadow herbs and remaining essential oils, but the mix you are giving does help.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> You can stop it, it may just be strong or a little spicy. Some goats register the spice and some don't.
> 
> As for the wormload, there's not much we can do about it until we get the fir Meadow herbs and remaining essential oils, but the mix you are giving does help.


I won't give Aja any more then. Thanks 
My order maybe in the mail at post office. My wife will go get the mail. I got the deworm a and the GI. Soother and some essential oils. My wild orange got back order and won't be her until October 15th they say.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I won't give Aja any more then. Thanks
> My order maybe in the mail at post office. My wife will go get the mail. I got the deworm a and the GI. Soother and some essential oils. My wild orange got back order and won't be her until October 15th they say.


According to my calculations she tallied 2000 on the worm load.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Any issues with her FAMACHA score?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Any issues with her FAMACHA score?


I haven't looked in a week. I'll check her in the morning . In fact I'll check her and all her buddies. I'll try to get fecal on her buddies also.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I haven't looked in a week. I'll check her in the morning . In fact I'll check her and all her buddies. I'll try to get fecal on her buddies also.


Do you think it would be alright to feed the two small packs of pumpkin seed that my wife bought? They are roasted and salted. I could mix them in their alfalfa. If not to my sick gal maybe the rest of the herd?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

They are not going to have the benefits, they’ll just be treats!


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> They are not going to have the benefits, they'll just be treats!


Ok, at least I can get rid of them. It says on bag high protein so maybe some good? Also what about can pumpkin? Just asking.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Too much can cause loose poop. Good for down goats.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I got my fir Meadows GI smoother and DWA wormer in. I can see I need 1/2 teaspoon it says for a 70 to 100 pound goat of each one. How do you give this stuff, just mix with water and drench? If so can I mix a teaspoon and a half and give 1 part morning and 1 part at lunch and last part at evening feed? How do you store this? Can it be refrigerated or just put in a canister leaving in the bag it came in. The essential oil I received may or may not work. It says for aromatherapy or topical. Can I use it anyway? I know this is a lot of questions but I’m off tomorrow so I’d like to get started this evening.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Herbs can be left in the bags they came in.

She’s treatment dosing, so give a double dose every 3 hours for a day. Use tomorrow (when you aren’t working). Then give a triple dose twice daily (if you aren’t able to give three doses in a day). Do that for 5 days. Then give a double dose 2x a day for 5 more days.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Bags of the herbs don’t get refrigerated.

Top it over her feed, mix with some water, mix with a little bit of applesauce, or pumpkin purée for her to lick up, mix with molasses and slippery elm and make into a dosage ball. You can mix with peanut butter, and you can make that into a dosage ball as well.

Can’t use essential oil unless it’s DoTerra food grade.


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## Tom Colvin (Jun 10, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Bags of the herbs don't get refrigerated.
> 
> Top it over her feed, mix with some water, mix with a little bit of applesauce, or pumpkin purée for her to lick up, mix with molasses and slippery elm and make into a dosage ball. You can mix with peanut butter, and you can make that into a dosage ball as well.
> 
> Can't use essential oil unless it's DoTerra food grade.


Can I mix the GI soother with the DWA wormer with peanut butter?


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## Tom Colvin (Jun 10, 2018)

I gave her both the wormer and the soother in a small amount of yogurt. She loves yogurt.


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## Tom Colvin (Jun 10, 2018)

I have been having trouble getting on the site. Started last night. Sometimes it would time out and post a error message as site not available. It wouldn’t let me post.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I have been reading this post. I do not use natural wormers,preventatives,or essential oils. Are they cost effective? Do you use the products daily? How many days.of product do you purchase? I'm asking to learn. To get an idea of the cost .I have 23 goats.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Moers kiko boars said:


> I have been reading this post. I do not use natural wormers,preventatives,or essential oils. Are they cost effective? Do you use the products daily? How many days.of product do you purchase? I'm asking to learn. To get an idea of the cost .I have 23 goats.


I'm too new at the herbal and essential oil treatment to say but I believe it will work if done proper. NigerianDwarfOwner707 can Enlighten you On this and is very knowledgeable on herbal treatments and essential oils. When and if you get essential oils they must be good grade. Order Dotterra brand only. That was my first mistake. I am going to try to send them back and order from Doterra.
Ps-Leave Amazon alone on this one. My second mistake.
Good luck.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Any issues with her FAMACHA score?


Not white but not Fleshy red either. More of a pink color. I said say between a 3-4 scale.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/11/20- temp 103.1, fed double dose of soother and wormer herbs. Fed slippery elm in alfalfa. Are there something else I could feed with the alfalfa for her? All of her buddies are with her too.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Are they cost effective? Do you use the products daily? How many days.of product do you purchase? I'm asking to learn. To get an idea of the cost .I have 23 goats.


A 15 ml bottle of DoTerra ess. Oil has approx 250 drops in it. I give one drop of each oil im using per goat. So it goes a long way. The herbs have such small doses it too last quite a while. I have very few issue with worm load. Famacha stay nice and pink. Being in a hot humid area, we struggled with heavy worm load for years..uphill battle until I started with herbs and oils. It does matter what brands you buy. I like Doterra oils and Land of Havilah herbs. We are into 4 or 5 years with this combo and love it. I have a thread on here about deworming with oils and share my experience. One part thats a must read us the value of adding wild orange eo weekly. Hope this helps


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

happybleats said:


> A 15 ml bottle of DoTerra ess. Oil has approx 250 drops in it. I give one drop of each oil im using per goat. So it goes a long way. The herbs have such small doses it too last quite a while. I have very few issue with worm load. Famacha stay nice and pink. Being in a hot humid area, we struggled with heavy worm load for years..uphill battle until I started with herbs and oils. It does matter what brands you buy. I like Doterra oils and Land of Havilah herbs. We are into 4 or 5 years with this combo and love it. I have a thread on here about deworming with oils and share my experience. One part thats a must read us the value of adding wild orange eo weekly. Hope this helps


Just gave 2nd dose of smoother and wormer. I gave her the one drop of digestzen this morning. I also started a 10 month old buck on this this evening with one drop digestzen in olive oil and the smoother and DWS wormer. He just got yesterday a bad barberpole score and was wormed chemically Saturday after lunch with ivermectin. About 2 this evening I started him on the oils and herbal medicines as well. He had a real bad case of stomach issues so I added some slippery elm in to his mix. He love the taste of it, Ellie on the other hand did not. Both got it though. Next dose around 5pm or maybe 8 pm after church tonight (herbals only) next digestzen In the morning. How long do I give the digestzen??


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can give digestzen as often as needed. It's perfectly safe. Acutely every hour, or 3-4 times a day, or once daily..just depends on your need. For ex: If my goat broke into the feed room...I do hourly.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

She has took a new turn on me this eve. I went down after dinner and gave her another double dose of the DWA wormer and GI Soother and she took it but not as readily as she had been. At evening feeding she wouldn’t come into pen. I had to go get her. After getting her in the pen with her buddies I noticed her grinding her teeth again. I tried to give her the wormer only mix this time and she almost refuse to cooperate. I had been giving her 2 garlic cloves with a tad of peanut butter. She refused to chew it up and spit it out 4 times. I then gave her the herbal wormer and she tried to spit it out. I got most of it down her and noticed her grinding her teeth bad. I went and got my thermometer and took temp. It was 104.3 f. I gave her a Banamine shot and a B Complex shot. She had been eating and popping pellets even though she had a high barberpole fecal. I don’t think the herbals or the digestzen has cause this but I’m at a lost as what to do next. Help


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is she a girl that is important to you and you want to keep?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Is she a girl that is important to you and you want to keep?


That has always been my problem. I bite the bullet sometimes and move on because I have broke the bank trying to turn things around. Many that I have now have come through things like this and it is very challenging sometimes until you figure out what's causing the problem. I just don't like giving up, and yes she is a sweet little goat with a winning personality. If I find I can't correct it then I guess I'll bite the bullet. Until then I'll do my best to find out what works for her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is it her 3 week mark again?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Is it her 3 week mark again?


No, she went off feed on 9/30/20. This is only about 12 days now and for the last few days has appeared doing good. This just started about 2 pm this evening. I didn't listen to her breathing but is it possible pneumonia could be creeping in? Our weather has been hot and humid with cool nights and spotted showers. If so I may need Nuflor gold started.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How is her temp?

It may be pneumonia, if you hear rattling.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Should I proceed with the digestzen and the DWA wormer in the morning? I’ll take temp and be prepared to start Nuflor gold if temp is over 104 f. I’ll try to listen for breathing for congestion or coarseness in breathing. I forget the doseage for a 75 lb goat. I think it’s 3ml (1ml per 25 lbs) I’ll also give replamin.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Nuflor is 3 cc per 100 pounds. Giving herbs and oils won't hurt.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> I'm too new at the herbal and essential oil treatment to say but I believe it will work if done proper. NigerianDwarfOwner707 can Enlighten you On this and is very knowledgeable on herbal treatments and essential oils. When and if you get essential oils they must be good grade. Order Dotterra brand only. That was my first mistake. I am going to try to send them back and order from Doterra.
> Ps-Leave Amazon alone on this one. My second mistake.
> Good luck.


Doterra is a good brand of oil but it is not THE only good eo out there. There is a lot of hype in their name now a days. So do not be duped into the name and overlook brands that are less expensive but just as good. As a massage therapist i am well aquainted with different eo brands.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

How long do I give the digestzen at one drop per day?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

This is response from for meadows on essential oils from Kathryn. Copied:

You can use them. I use mine with my goats frequently and have for decades but wisely and correctly. I have master's level training on these under a PhD from Germany. If u sign up for a consultation I can spend some educational time with you. Due to biosecurity we are unable to take products back.

Blessed day. Katherine


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/12/20-temp way high-105.7, gave banamine 2 ml, Nuflor 3 ml, herbal wormer (was a battle) 1 drop digestzen in olive oil. Forgot my scope so didn’t listen to lungs. I may be fighting for a loss cause. We will just have to see if I can turn her. She ate hay and some alfalfa.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Her fever is very worrying.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You did the right thing, it may indeed be pneumonia. 
Hope she gets well soon. 

Keep us updated.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

So sorry I missed all this -

This girl is a piece of work! Remind me, haven't you given Nuflor before when temp was high? I am really wondering if there is a deeply rooted bacteria in her that is just not taking the hint to skedaddle and is causing all these issues.

Curious, is she fully disease tested?

Be extra sure to give probiotics/yogurt 3 hours after the antibiotics.

Keep going with the herbs, it will continue to support her system!

With the high temp, no, digestzen nor herbs would have caused that.

Are you positive no coccidia on the fecal?

You can add pumpkin seeds or flax to her alfalfa.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Moers kiko boars said:


> I have been reading this post. I do not use natural wormers,preventatives,or essential oils. Are they cost effective? Do you use the products daily? How many days.of product do you purchase? I'm asking to learn. To get an idea of the cost .I have 23 goats.





happybleats said:


> A 15 ml bottle of DoTerra ess. Oil has approx 250 drops in it. I give one drop of each oil im using per goat. So it goes a long way. The herbs have such small doses it too last quite a while. I have very few issue with worm load. Famacha stay nice and pink. Being in a hot humid area, we struggled with heavy worm load for years..uphill battle until I started with herbs and oils. It does matter what brands you buy. I like Doterra oils and Land of Havilah herbs. We are into 4 or 5 years with this combo and love it. I have a thread on here about deworming with oils and share my experience. One part thats a must read us the value of adding wild orange eo weekly. Hope this helps


What she said! It lasts longer than you'd think. Initial dosing (acute) which is 3 days straight of oils and sometimes 5-10 of the herbs can seem like your bag is going quick, but it will balance out so by your second bag of herbals, it should last quite a while as it should be only 1-2x weekly that it is used. To ballpark, there are approx 300 doses for a 100-200lb animal in the bag of wormer I use.

I only recommend DoTerra oils or certain YoungLiving oils because that's what I've seen works. I like LOH herbs but I use FirMeadow, DWA and GI Soother which is two separate formulas (each targets different worms) vs LOH's one formula. I'll be honest, I like the two formulas because it lets me use certain ones to target certain worms, which for me saves money. If I just have. BP/GI Nematode situation I am going to be using GI Soother way more than DWA, and that saves me DWA doses.

I find them extremely cost effective, way more efficient, and safer. My goats have never been healthier, the herbs support their full body, including immune system. Chemicals do anything but that, they just target the worms and the body's health is collateral damage.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> This is response from for meadows on essential oils from Kathryn. Copied:
> 
> You can use them. I use mine with my goats frequently and have for decades but wisely and correctly. I have master's level training on these under a PhD from Germany. If u sign up for a consultation I can spend some educational time with you. Due to biosecurity we are unable to take products back.
> 
> Blessed day. Katherine


Thanks, sometimes I have to make decisions at a time when no one can answer my dilemma questions because of time difference and other draw backs. I have learned a few things from you all and I am very appreciative of the knowledge you all have. Just hope my mind can grasp some of it.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Tanya said:


> Her fever is very worrying.


I know and I'm not there with her where I can check on her.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I know and I'm not there with her where I can check on her.


I go check on her as soon as I get off work. I don't give but one Nuflor a day for 6 days, right?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> I go check on her as soon as I get off work. I don't give but one Nuflor a day for 6 days, right?


If fever is still high ( 104 +) should I give another banamine?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Nuflor (Florfenicol) *--3cc per 100 lbs SQ, EOD, 3x, only if illness is caught early.
If you see no improvement by day 2, you may want to choose a different antibiotic.
For more severe cases, give daily 5-7 days. -
Treats pneumonia and other illnesses or infections.
Can begin with a high dosage first injection of 6 cc's per 100 lbs. Vet RX needed.

*Banamine* - Dose 1 cc per 100 lbs IM preferred.
Always take temp prior to giving, if temp is low, do NOT give unless advised by your vet. It is an Anti-inflammatory, drops high fever, can help stop severe diarrhea in very young kids, prevents scarring of the lungs, can calm the gut in digestive illnesses, relieves pain.
Shouldn't be used more than once, every 36 hours.
Can be used up to 4 days without issues.
In some case, it is used for longer term, but the risk is greater for complications. Use as needed.
Refrigerate. 36 hour milk withholding and 4 day from last treatment for slaughter. Vet Rx needed.

If you already gave a shot of banamine today, wait until tomorrow.
1 x a day or as needed.

If her temp is still too high, you will have to cool her down in other ways.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Try increase her garlic to 3 cloves. I also use white onion with the garlic. Onion and garlic do contain natural antibiotic and natural deworming qualities.
Toth boer is also giving good advice on medication.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I do Nuflor 3 cc per 100 pounds once a day for 5 full days. I tried cutting that short to 3 days and my goat relapsed. I rather really kick it the first time.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

104 is a low fever, remember that a fever is the body's way of healing itself in some ways - when it's not too high, don't bother it.

With that being said, a temp reduction trick:

Take eucalyptus essential oil or peppermint oil (brand doesn't matter, good quality - yes, but does not need to be food grade), DigestZen may be the closest thing you have. 

Take 1 cup of water and mix with 15-20 drops of the essential oil. Add 4 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar. Use this as a misting spray (think fly spray) on the animal. If it is chilly, you can just spray on legs and rub a little behind ears and under armpits.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree on if a goat is really down, I would do the 5-7 days daily with this case.

When I catch it early, I do 3x EOD.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/12/20- temp 104.1, gave replamin, herbals-both, listen to her breathing and it sound good to me. Heard rumen sounds gurgling and boiling like sounds. I go for Nuflor again in the morning and banamine of over 104 temp. Will also give essential oil and slippery elm in yogurt over feed.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Katherine from Fir Meadows sent me this email this evening, see below:

Good afternoon Tom 

The essential oils I work with are medicinal quality grade which is higher than therapeutic or food grades. It is the best quality.
As I mentioned in a previous email I use them frequently with my goats- the same ones I sell.
Due to biosecurity measures we cannot accept returns of products that go to farms.

Many blessings, Katherine

Sounds like telling the straight of it. What do y’all think?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If Kat says her oils are food grade or better her oils are fine to use. I wasn’t sure if they were but she is a friend and I trust her highly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Lungs sound good, hmm, I wonder if there is a different type of infection or sepsis going on somewhere in her body.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Lungs sound good, hmm, I wonder if there is a different type of infection or sepsis going on somewhere in her body.


I do think that - some deeply rooted bacteria that may be causing the rumen issues and the high temp.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If that is the case, you may have to get a stronger antibiotic to kill it off.

Nuflor is a good one, but sometimes a more potent one needs to be used. 
The last to go to type of antibiotic.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> If that is the case, you may have to get a stronger antibiotic to kill it off.
> 
> Nuflor is a good one, but sometimes a more potent one needs to be used.
> The last to go to type of antibiotic.


What is a last to go to?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I don't know why it would be a good idea to give a goat who is struggling with bacterial imbalances (including a lack of good bacteria at times) a conventional medicine even stronger than the one she got.

I would wait for your oregano EO and all the others which are very antibacterial, and I would order the HerBiotic. I've seen natural antibiotics work many, many times. But it is up to you.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I don't know why it would be a good idea to give a goat who is struggling with bacterial imbalances (including a lack of good bacteria at times) a conventional medicine even stronger than the one she got.
> 
> I would wait for your oregano EO and all the others which are very antibacterial, and I would order the HerBiotic. I've seen natural antibiotics work many, many times. But it is up to you.


Temp this evening was 103.7, I gave GI Smoother and Herbal wormer. This morning she got her EO digestzen. Im giving the herbals twice a day and digestzen only once. My wild orange came on today. Now I have wild orange, oregano, lemon grass, and clove. What do I do with them now?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If she’s pregnant do not give clove.

Use the wild orange, oregano, and lemongrass same as the DigestZen - 1 drop once a day. Use for 3 days. Wild orange alone can go up to 5 days.

Did you use the ACV/EO spray for her fever? Or more banamine?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> If she's pregnant do not give clove.
> 
> Use the wild orange, oregano, and lemongrass same as the DigestZen - 1 drop once a day. Use for 3 days. Wild orange alone can go up to 5 days.
> 
> Did you use the ACV/EO spray for her fever? Or more banamine?


Banamine this morning. Now if I start the essential oils wild org, Oreg, and lemon g do I still keep doing the GI smoother and the wormer. I have been giving the herbals for 3 days now. Tomorrow will be the 4th day. Also digestzen now 3rd day (one time a day) tomorrow will be day four. The bag on the wormer and the GI says 1/2 teaspoon. I doubled both of these and am giving 1 teaspoon of each mixed into a little yogurt. I have been mixing it good and just put it in her mouth like feeding a baby. I do this twice a day. How long do I continue with the digestzen and how long with the herbals?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Banamine this morning. Now if I start the essential oils wild org, Oreg, and lemon g do I still keep doing the GI smoother and the wormer. I have been giving the herbals for 3 days now. Tomorrow will be the 4th day. Also digestzen now 3rd day (one time a day) tomorrow will be day four. The bag on the wormer and the GI says 1/2 teaspoon. I doubled both of these and am giving 1 teaspoon of each mixed into a little yogurt. I have been mixing it good and just put it in her mouth like feeding a baby. I do this twice a day. How long do I continue with the digestzen and how long with the herbals?


One other thing, can I mix the EO's the night before and give the next morning? I use a syringe with no needle and pull plunger out and add 1- to 1-1/2 ml olive oil and one drop of digestzen and put plunger back in and shake it up a little then give it deep enough in throat that they don't spit it out but not so far it strangles them.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Yes you can mix it in advance.

Give that group of oils for 3 days. DigestZen can be last dose tomorrow. Keep doing the GI Soother and wormer, when I say keep doing this I mean you can go as long as 30 days straight. Just keep them in her system. Oils continuously given at 3 days on 4 days off.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes you can mix it in advance.
> 
> Give that group of oils for 3 days. DigestZen can be last dose tomorrow. Keep doing the GI Soother and wormer, when I say keep doing this I mean you can go as long as 30 days straight. Just keep them in her system. Oils continuously given at 3 days on 4 days off.


Ok, I'll do digestzen in the morning for last dose and the others oils start tomorrow evening. I'll continue the GI and wormer morning and evening. Thanks


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/14/20- temp 102.7. Gave the herbals and last digestzen dose for a while. She appears to be feeling much better . Also gave 3rd Nuflor shot. Top dress alfalfa pellets with slippery elm and mixed in left over yogurt. They love it that way.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I don't know why it would be a good idea to give a goat who is struggling with bacterial imbalances (including a lack of good bacteria at times) a conventional medicine even stronger than the one she got.
> 
> I would wait for your oregano EO and all the others which are very antibacterial, and I would order the HerBiotic. I've seen natural antibiotics work many, many times. But it is up to you.


We have to to kill of all the bacteria of infection. If you have a goat who is consistently getting ill over and over again, we must go to the last to go to med(the stronger one) to try to conquer this battle. 
It is the last resort, in other words.
If nothing else is working, we have to cure it or the goat will eventually parish right?

If it is another strain of bacteria, certain meds will not kill it all off. 
So we must go to the bigger guns.

Herbs may work too slow, in some situations, if the bacteria has really taken off. The goat will parish.

It happened with one of my goats, nuflor wasn't working, so had to go to the bigger guns to stop it. 
It worked and the goat is fine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

TCOLVIN said:


> 10/14/20- temp 102.7. Gave the herbals and last digestzen dose for a while. She appears to be feeling much better . Also gave 3rd Nuflor shot. Top dress alfalfa pellets with slippery elm and mixed in left over yogurt. They love it that way.


 Glad your goat is responding, very good to hear.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I agree that a stronger antibiotic maybe better to kill some deep rooted bacteria but can she handle it? She seems to be taking the Nuflor ok and appears to be some what better but we have driven down this road 2 or 3 times now. She will over it and then close to 4 weeks later, same thing. i have a call into my vet to discuss the antibiotics he has and what may be stronger. If it won't harm her I'm in to move with it. I just don't want to do her any harm. this is a no win situation looks like. Maybe i need to just continue with the nuflor until Sunday. Sunday would make a 7 day week of it. Keep up with the oils for 3 days on Starting this evening thru Friday eve.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Talk to your vet get his/her opinion on it, tell them what you have done so far.
All the times she was treated and what was used.
If they feel she should have a stronger antibiotic, they can give it to you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a doe that I'm fairly certain had a bacterial infection. She went down real quick. Projectile watery scours...off feed..i could not get the scours to clear up...this was not dietary or parasite scours. She was sick. Nothing I tried natural or chemical was working. I contact Kristie of LOH and she suggested rotating hourly doses of 3 blends. Parasite formula, back on track and an infection blend. We did one blend every hour for days!! By day three scours starting clearing up. She was interested in leaves..by the weeks end she was calling her kids to nurse even though she dried up. She began pulling up a cud. Loose stool came and went for a while but we now have berries. She was skin and bone but alive! Its taken me weeks to get weight back on her and she's still healing. We keep up with herbs to help with gut healing. She has beautiful famacha, eating very well and is finally strong on her feet. My point is. Herbs do work if you are able to be aggressive. It takes alot and that sure can be a turn off. But when traditional treatment doesn't work..its time for a change. I will use antibiotics and other traditional treatments here when needed..im not a medicine snob lol..I will do what I need to to save a goat but I hate to throw more and more chemicals in an already compromised system. I think since she is stable now...aggressive herbal treatment can restore her system to good health if you have the time to do it. Not sure if she could be moved closer to home to make it easier..or if some one can help fill the time gap. But even 4 times a day can make a difference after initially getting them in her. Maybe pick a time you have a few days off work..hit her hard..then do as often as time allows daily. Just a thought.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Talk to your vet get his/her opinion on it, tell them what you have done so far.
> All the times she was treated and what was used.
> If they feel she should have a stronger antibiotic, they can give it to you.


The first time it happen it was banamine for fever and Noromycin 300 for antibiotic. The wormer was Cydectin for the barberpole.The second time was banamine fpr fever drop and Nuflor. The third time ivermectin was used orally and herbal wormer and GI smoother started soon after. She at this time was low temp and off feed. Then the temp spiked to 105.7. I then started banamine and Nuflor. I think I'm sticking with Nuflor for a week then see where she is with this. Maybe I quit too soon before. ???


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Toth... let me start by saying I come in peace. Need you to know I’m keeping it friendly and fun and I have such high respect for you.

Now, if you have not personally used natural antibiotics, I respectfully ask that your comment that they are slow working be rescinded or at least that you take a moment to consider the experiences of other skilled herbal users. Herbal dewormers work marginally slower than mild chemical wormers, I’ve taken care of a worm situation with heavy acute dosing in a couple days. Goat was fine.

In terms of antibiotics, they work even faster than the dewormers do. I’ve had pink eye, respiratory illnesses, bacterial infections and more in my goats, not once did herbal antibiotics fail me. Case of pink eye was gone in 24 hours.

It’s about what you use and how you use it and I will leave it at that.

But they do not “work slow.” They work with the body. THEY WORK.

Hugs!!


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/14/20-temp 105.3, fed GI and wormer. Top dress feed with slippery elm. Gone to town now but will give a banamine when I get back. At a loss??


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How is she behaving? Eating? Drinking? Alert and active? Or ???


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I’m at a loss as well. Is she still eating?

I’d up her garlic to at least 3 cloves. Did you start oregano oil and others?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Yes she ate with the buddies of hers. I feed alfalfa with yogurt and slippery elm stirred into the trough. She popped pills so I got a decal but haven’t had time to run it yet. Probably be tomorrow evening. It’s dark now but when I get back home I’m going to give a banamine shot. I started the oils today.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Yes she ate with the buddies of hers. I feed alfalfa with yogurt and slippery elm stirred into the trough. She popped pills so I got a decal but haven't had time to run it yet. Probably be tomorrow evening. It's dark now but when I get back home I'm going to give a banamine shot. I started the oils today.


She refused to chew garlic cloves Tuesday when I last tried. She didn't want the GI smoother and herbal wormer, she tried to spit it out.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> She refused to chew garlic cloves Tuesday when I last tried. She didn't want the GI smoother and herbal wormer, she tried to spit it out.


What mine do every day. Lol.

Find a way to get it in that she will eat it. Mince the cloves and mix with yogurt. Mix wormer into yogurt. Drench wormer. Do whatever you need, her protest cannot stop you from helping her. The stopping of the garlic was a mistake so please do continue that.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Can I mix the GI smoother and wormer together and drench them with water?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> Can I mix the GI smoother and wormer together and drench them with water?


Why of course...

What have you been doing?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can blend garlic in the GI soother and or dewormer .


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Just got back giving the banamine shot.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I have been mixing the two herbals in 2 tablespoon of yogurt mixed up good. At first few days she liked it but today she didn’t want it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can mix with enough water to drench it..then add and blend the garlic. Drenching syringes are awesome for this. I do this with our parasite blend.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

happybleats said:


> You can mix with enough water to drench it..then add and blend the garlic. Drenching syringes are awesome for this. I do this with our parasite blend.


Where is best place to listen to a goats lungs.?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I start the stethoscope just behind and slightly above the front leg. Then I slowly move it up until I get a good spot to listen.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

happybleats said:


> I start the stethoscope just behind and slightly above the front leg. Then I slowly move it up until I get a good spot to listen.


Ok, I was in the right place. Thanks


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am following this thread and just wanted to say @TCOLVIN You are so diligent, patient and hard working with Ellie, and so are the helping members! I am cheering for Ellie (and you!)!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

TCOLVIN said:


> 10/14/20-temp 105.3, fed GI and wormer. Top dress feed with slippery elm. Gone to town now but will give a banamine when I get back. At a loss??


Wow. That temp is too high. I think maybe there is definately a secondary infection somewhere.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

My vet call me back and said he had baytril . Said it was a different kind and he would give it once and wait 3 days and give a second shot. What do you all think about switching antibiotics?
My thoughts are to go for it but strictly because of my situation is desperate now.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10//15/20-temp 102.6, gave oils and herbals, 3 ml Nuflor. Forgot my yogurt but top dressed with slippery elm. This temp swing driving me crazy.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Oils meaning the 3 - w o, org, lemon g


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd do the baytril.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Batril is a very strong antibiotic but should be given daily. Its not a long acting antibiotic. I don't see a reason to give one shot and wait three days. That really will do no good imo. If he is wanting to do a long acting antibiotic he can try Draxxin which has shown to be effective since it hits the lungs directly. Even with that sometimes we have to do another antibiotic between Draxxin 2 shots.

Now if you continue Nuflor between the two Baytril shots..at least then she won't be left vulnerable


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

happybleats said:


> Batril is a very strong antibiotic but should be given daily. Its not a long acting antibiotic. I don't see a reason to give one shot and wait three days. That really will do no good imo. If he is wanting to do a long acting antibiotic he can try Draxxin which has shown to be effective since it hits the lungs directly. Even with that sometimes we have to do another antibiotic between Draxxin 2 shots.
> 
> Now if you continue Nuflor between the two Baytril shots..at least then she won't be left vulnerable


My only question is is it a lung problem? They don't sound bad to me. According to what I have read up on baytril is that it's not for pregnant goats and she maybe? It is a very strong antibiotic. I'll just stick with Nuflor I guess.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes.., very true, draxxin is best for actual lung issue like pneumonia

Personally if she were mine I would finish the round of nuflor then switch to herbal infection blend. Something is going on with this doe and antibiotics, while many are broad, are specific for different infections. Sonfar they Just do not seem to be correcting her issue. The fact that she get ill ever 3 weeks or so has me to beleive may have Somthing to due with heat cycle...perhaps it lowers her immune system? Goats can be such a mystery. Now with herbs you are not just addressing infection but providing nutrients. Herbs act different than antibiotics as the body uses the herbs effectively and they do act quickly. By her picture..she looks healthy. At a good weight. If she is not bred..I would not breed her until you have this figured out as she may have an unseen defect she can pass along or pregnancy maybe too much for her. Kristie of LOH is amazing in helping find the best blend for this situation. Im thinking the Herbamins and Infectiin blend but she has a few new ones. GUARDIAN is one. Why not message her and discuss whats going on. I truly feel this Doe has had enough chemical treatment. Its not working. Time for a change.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would try another antibiotic totally, especially if you have been treating her every time with Nuflor and the issue always comes back.

It must be a different strain of infection going on, which Nuflor isn’t strong enough or isn’t the proper antibiotic to take care of this issue. 

I agree baytril should be given daily though. 

May not be in the lungs, but hiding somewhere.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Would not do baytril in the way vet suggested and maybe not at all...

Here's my thought process and I am curious @happybleats thoughts, don't do anything yet but for discussion -- My gut says the bacterial issue is in, well, her gut!

OCR mentions chronic/paracute enterotoxemia, I have heard of this - i.e. bacterial imbalance with clostridium perfringens. A CD antitoxin may not hurt.

On that note, activated charcoal or MOM to cleanse her may also not be a bad idea. @happybleats, your thoughts?

She looks good so I am hard-pressed to suspect Johnes but I do want to make sure she has been tested for it.

My mind is also considering something like FKS in an adult's microbiome. If we consider re-booting her whole system, a sulfa drug used for FKS will kill all bacteria (good included). That would be an interesting thing to consider.

This gal is stumping me but I would say to try the CD antitoxin I see no harm in that.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Cd antitoxin is never a bad idea when the gut is concerned. 

If memory serves, this doe has done this 3 or 4 times.every 3 weeks or so. Bananine and Nuflor was used along with various herbal blends and garlic. Obviously Nuflor is not the correct antibiotic for this. Baytril dose 2 times 3 days a part doesn't sit well with me either. With each dose of antibiotic and banamine we are messing up her flora. Every 3 weeks she's sick..takes at least a week to get better leaving only a few weeks to recover that flora. Im wondering if that is not exasperating her situation. Personally I would stop all chemical treatment. Get proper herb blends to address the gut and infection and immune support. That may not be a popular response but I have seen the spiral effect of one treatment after another only cause the goat to be more compromised. I agree with Toth, its no use using the same antibiotic over and over with no results. Nuflor is a great antibiotic, but its not taking care of this situation.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would give the CD antitoxin, and I would definitely contact Kristie or Kat once more to ask their opinions on the entirety of the situation. Get GI BoT and HerBiotic. Work with rigorous fresh treatments as well.

I do agree that staying away from more antibiotics will be beneficial.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Would not do baytril in the way vet suggested and maybe not at all...
> 
> Here's my thought process and I am curious @happybleats thoughts, don't do anything yet but for discussion -- My gut says the bacterial issue is in, well, her gut!
> 
> ...


I don't think I have the CD antitoxins


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Now hang on a second... I just did some zooming out to human issues because I think it just might help us figure her out.

Here's my other theory which wouldn't hurt to treat for.

Candida. :waiting:

Candida is a harmful yeast which lives in the gut among other places. Candida can cause severe gut distress due to imbalances, which cause it to attack the good gut bacteria. Not only does that cause low temps when the gut is in distress, but Candida also is known for causing fevers. It is known for becoming more proliferated depending on hormone levels, so it can fluctuate based on a goat's heat cycles. Antibiotics tend to make it even more angry.

https://scholar.cu.edu.eg/?q=hanem/files/monograph_of_sheep_and_goats.pdf

"The genus Candida comprises more than 260 species, of which Candida albicans is the most commonly recorded species in sheep and goats  Candidosis is a fungal disease affecting the mucous membranes and the skin and may cause infection of any organ or system or systemic infections.  Candidosis is distributed worldwide in a variety of animals and is most commonly caused by Candida albicans.  Candida albicans is a polymorphic fungus which grows in both yeast and filamentous forms (Brown et al., 2012).  Candida albicans is also an opportunistic pathogen and one of the major aetiological agents of mucosal and systemic fungal infection (Brown et al., 2012)."

I know it may seem odd but I'm trying to link the hormone-related reoccurrence here.

If we want to treat for candida, no harm in that!

Aloe vera juice (never the plant) works very well. Also said to be a natural wormer, go figure!

Apple Cider Vinegar should be given too.

Herbs good for it include cinnamon, ginger, pau d'arco, black walnut, thyme, and peppermint. You are already giving some of these.

Wheatgrass would be beneficial as well.

HerBiotic will help with fungal/yeast issues, and it will cover your herbal needs.

Garlic garlic garlic.

Dr. Christopher's Intestinal Sweep would also be fantastic: https://healthyplanetshopping.com/p...v-j5HAAspmQclO_sUlumE6qKDUkDh8zhoCdqsQAvD_BwE

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3883203/ - "
*Candidiasis: An unusual cause of persistent high-grade fever in mid-pregnancy"*


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Now hang on a second... I just did some zooming out to human issues because I think it just might help us figure her out.
> 
> Here's my other theory which wouldn't hurt to treat for.
> 
> ...


Temp this evening was 105.3, gave herbals (2) and 1 shot of banamine. She was hungry this evening and ate 3 Garlic Cloves with a dab of peanut butter. Never has she ever done that. She doesn't act like she is sick. The article above is very interesting and may just be what she has. I have ordered tonight the herbotics and ask that it be shipped tomorrow. My vet gave me the antibiotic Baytril (2) shots 3ml each. My plan was to give one in the morning and then the next 2 days Nuflor and day 3 Baytril for the last shot. Where do you get aloe Vera juice. We have a Aloe Vera plant on back porch. Could I press the juice out? I have a walnut tree also. What if I blend the leaves (chop) and feed in yogurt or what ever she will eat. Do you think I should give her a shot of Selium tomorrow when I do the other goats. Maybe I just need to wait on her? Let me know what you think on the Baytril, Nuflor, Aloe Vera, chop leaves and anything else I may have mentioned. I may try to get another fecal in the morning and take to my vet and enough for me to do one so I can compare. I know so many questions but I want you all to know that I appreciate the interest and the help you have give Ellie and Me. I feel like we may have a chance here to do something for her. Thanks


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

NO on the Baytril, if you read what I sent on Candida it just makes the situation worse (and about everything else to). She is acting ok so I don't think we should give it, but hold on to it.

Unfortunately aloe vera plant has a purgative effect... the juice sold has had those properties removed. Most stores sell it, honestly.

Green leaves are good, I am sure she will take them herself.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

On another note I did a fecal tonight on her myself and if I’m figuring right she has an average count of 1300. This is a third of what last fecal was, over 4000. I know I’m new at this but I saw barberpole in both fecals I did. One was about 12 days ago and this one tonight. I use the McMaster Green line slide to do my fecals.
Example of what I saw:
4 + 4 +4 + 6 + 3 = 21
7 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 4 = 28
21 x 50 = 1050
28 x 50 = 1400

1400 + 1050 = 2450

2450 divided by 2 = 1225 count average

I rounded up to 1300 just to be safe.

Where am I wrong in method here?
Is it 2450 the worm count or average of the two, 1225.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> NO on the Baytril, if you read what I sent on Candida it just makes the situation worse (and about everything else to). She is acting ok so I don't think we should give it, but hold on to it.
> 
> Unfortunately aloe vera plant has a purgative effect... the juice sold has had those properties removed. Most stores sell it, honestly.
> 
> Green leaves are good, I am sure she will take them herself.


Ok on the holding off on Baytril, what about the Nuflor? I still like 2 shots giving her


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/16/20-morning temp 104.3, did not give Nuflor yet. Gave EO oils, herbals, she would not eat garlic or her alfalfa feed mix. I am going to get some leaves chopped up for feeding. Walnut, mulberry, oak, gum and black berry if I have any. I’ll chop them up and mix in feed?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Continue Nuflor because I really don't want to stop mid treatment. 

Is she getting ACV yet? Give 3 hours post antibiotic shot.

She may eat the leaves by themselves. I'd like to see if she would.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I give ACV this evening. It will be about 6pm before I can give the Nuflor. I have left home to get somethings from the store. I got walnut, oak , loquat, mulberry, blackberry, pecan, lemon, and orange leaves in a plastic bag about a third full and run them though an onion slicer and mixed them up real good and put in feeding trough over some left over alfalfa pellets the other goats left this morning. Her and her buddies came to trough and ate all of it up. I don’t know how much she ate but she kept her head in the trough so I know she got some.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If you’re out at the store do check for drinkable aloe juice!


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Found it. What do I do with it now. How much how often. Home in an hour


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

5cc 2x a day.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I'd do it for a week. You can start small with 5cc once a day to make sure she does well with it.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I'd do it for a week. You can start small with 5cc once a day to make sure she does well with it.


Gave her and one of her buddies 5 cc Aloe J. Also herbals. Temp was 104.3, I gave Nuflor and a 2ml banamine. She wouldn't eat alfalfa but she did eat some oak leaves. In the morning I'll give EO's and herbals and Aloe J. I guess next Nuflor will be tomorrow evening. You mention ACV, when does she get that. How much.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I’d mix 5cc acv with 5cc water give twice daily.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I'd mix 5cc acv with 5cc water give twice daily.


Ok here is what's on schedule,
10ml ACV / Water mix morning and evening 
Herbal wormer 1 teaspoon in drench morn/ eve
GI Smoother 1 teaspoon in drench morn/eve
Essential oils in olive oil carrier (wild O, Oregano, lemon grass, 3 days on 4 off.
and digestion every day. 
Yogurt and slippery elm mixed in alfalfa, morn/ eve.
Nuflor now given in evenings, banamine if fever 104.3 and up.
Oak, lemon, orange, black walnut, mulberry, blackberry and loquat leaves chopped up once in a while over alfalfa mix. 
Garlic when I can get it down her.
I don't think I left out anything.
Oh yes I did. 5 cc Aloe juice morn / evening
Herbotics when I receive it.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> NO on the Baytril, if you read what I sent on Candida it just makes the situation worse (and about everything else to). She is acting ok so I don't think we should give it, but hold on to it.
> 
> Unfortunately aloe vera plant has a purgative effect... the juice sold has had those properties removed. Most stores sell it, honestly.
> 
> Green leaves are good, I am sure she will take them herself.


Ok @TCOLVIN has a decent goat vet. You are NOT vet but trying to deter them from giving something the vet has said to do..... this does not sit well with me. I GET this animal has had problems. But the vet did go to school for these types of things. Yes they are stumped. But go by what the vet is saying as well. Just because it is not in your herbal protocol to use a stronger different antibiotic does not mean it is not right!

And @TCOLVIN the goat was most likely hungry because the banamine was keeping the fever at bay and it will also make them hungry. A goat that feels sick just like a human does not want to eat. She NEEDS those nutrients. Esp with all the things you are throwin at her right now. You absolutely cannot have the goat stopping feed and water. When was the vet out to see this animal? You could be missing something while listening to lungs or heart or any bodily function that the vet may catch. If YOU and your VET feel the need to treat for the yeast then by all means do so. But go over the thought process with them.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I agree..please consult your vet. We are here to help and SUGGEST what works for our goats. We do support.all your efforts. But none of us are veterinarians.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I understand where you are coming from but let me set the record straight here. My vet has not seen this goat and does not make house calls at all. I ask him if he had a antibiotic stronger than Nuflor. He replied with baytril saying it not that much stronger but is a different type of antibiotic. He said I could try it and I ask how often to give it his reply was now and 3 days later. All that is said or told for me to do/try on this forum is certainly scrutinized by me throughly before I do or try the info I get. I realize that you are not vets but I also realize that none of you would give out any info that you yourselves have not tried or have seen it work. I also know what works for one goat may not work on another and conditions and circumstances may or may not present itself as a cure. I close with thanking each one that has been responding to Ellie’s problem and rest assured that the more info collected can create a knowledge base that can benefit her and the rest of my herd. I have 3 goats in my herd now that were near death and through piles of comments and replies, a workable life giving solution was found and they are now leading mamas at kidding time. You all may not be vets, but you probably have more hands on experience with goats than most vets I know. Thanks guys for the sincere dedication that you all put forth for people like me.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Is it not feasable to take the goat in to the vet or the state vet where you live? Maybe it IS time to make the trip to the vet with her.... even if it does take a bit of time to get there and back. The vet seeing and doing an exam in person might catch something off that you do not recognize as a problem causing all of this. Or hear something in their steth that you do not know to listen for or hear yourself. Or test for with blood, urine or feces. But it could be something that only a physical exam will catch.

On the baytril... you do not like the dosing he has given you. Cite different trusted web sites about the dosage and talk to the vet about the dosage that you do not agree with. I have questioned mine and he takes my research and looks at it himself. He is not against trying things differently if i give him reliable references and resources where something is different than what he suggests. Sometimes my way works better and sometimes his does.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Also. You said this is happening every three weeks approx. does it foinside with her heat cycles. Is there possibly somethin goin on with her reproductive system.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Sfgwife said:


> Also. You said this is happening every three weeks approx. does it foinside with her heat cycles. Is there possibly somethin goin on with her reproductive system.


You saying that brings to mind that just this week I had a little 11 month old buck in the pen with her about a week because of another problem and I notice him trying to act buckish so I took him out because of this.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/17/20- temp 100.9, won’t eat feed this morning, cur her a limb and put back to pasture with other goats. I don’t think what she has is catching. I gave her all the fluids, Aloe, digestzen, ACV, and the herbal mixes. I could not get her to eat garlic last night so I didn’t try this morning. I may chop some tonight. If she don’t do better by next week in I may try and get a vet appointment. With this Covid scare you can’t go into the vets office building and when comes out to your vehicle you have to sit in your truck. I believe now it is a heat cycle thing.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would just like to reply to @Sfgwife that I do not hold myself up as better than a vet, and all of my opinions are my opinions.

But I can't help but be vet sour because I see them cause so many more issues with their overuse and improper use of antibiotics. I was taking the situation at hand seeing a goat with past rumen distress, who has received multiple antibiotics in the past, was already on a good antibiotic, and had been eating and acting normally.



NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> She is acting ok so I don't think we should give it, but hold on to it.


I specifically said to hold on to it in case any of those situations changed.

I am glad you have a good vet @Sfgwife that will listen to you when they are called out, but not all vets are as good.

We are all taking this situation in stride and watching Ellie closely her situation is extremely interesting.

But with her temp now going low, I'd be hard pressed to give any more antibiotics (and we are probably already at the limit for days of banamine), and I would try and work with her body.

@TCOLVIN if you can, pump her full of at least 4 cloves of garlic daily. Blend it up with the 10cc of ACV and water.

I am not anti-antibiotics and I am anti-vets, but I DO NOT put my trust blindly in either.

Tom is doing a fantastic job, I trust he knows his goat, and if he feels a vet is necessary I don't doubt he will overlook all of my advice and do what he feels is best.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I would just like to reply to @Sfgwife that I do not hold myself up as better than a vet, and all of my opinions are my opinions.
> 
> But I can't help but be vet sour because I see them cause so many more issues with their overuse and improper use of antibiotics. I was taking the situation at hand seeing a goat with past rumen distress, who has received multiple antibiotics in the past, was already on a good antibiotic, and had been eating and acting normally.
> 
> ...


But you are specifically telling him to disregard what his VET has told him to do. That IS the problem here. You do not like them and make your stance well known in that aspect. You are not a vet and should absolutely not be telling ANYONE to not listen theirs!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I am telling Tom my opinion and I assume he will make his own decisions as he is an adult.

Tom - make your own decisions, my feelings towards using baytril are purely my own opinion I am not a vet, nor do I hold myself to be one. You asked for our THOUGHTS on this forum, not the opinions of a licensed medical professional. I assume you know this, @TCOLVIN - I am not a vet!

Listen to your vet, or don't listen to your vet, whatever you do make sure it comes from you!

That's all I have to say. 

Let's try and keep this friendly please. I stated my OPINION! Which was what has been asked for by the OP.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

OK guys, keep it friendly, keep it fun. :hide:

Sometimes do know, vets are not always right in advice or treatment. We have proof from our own goat spot family about this.

If we feel a vets advice is wrong here on a TGS post, we say something right away. 

Remember, we can only give advice and the OP can decide whether or not to take that advice or not.
We are not vets, you are correct there. But many of us have learned from trial and error. So we know more than most vets out there.

The drug Baytril is another antibiotic type, which is different and may finally kill off what is ailing the goat.
But has to be given the proper amount of days for it to work.

We all give our advice, all we can do is let the OP soak it all in and decide from there, what they want to do.

We cannot force it upon them, even if we feel and know advice is good.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I understand each one of your comments as well as NDG. I think he/she was giving me ( as I do sometimes) what he/ she feels is proper instructions to help me help and Ellie. I know you are not vets but everyone on here knows (I hope) that all vets are not created equal. Many are too dog and cat specific and may have studied goats and such in school but due to the lack of goats : sheep in their business, really are not in touch with any thing but dog and cat. My vet has cattle and some knowledge of goats but that’s another story. When I want hands on experience, I go to the goat spot for suggestions and help. Let’s all help one another and reserve the right to disagree if the shoe don’t fit. I thank NDG for the input as well as many others whom I have follow on this forum.. You are a wonderful bunch. Case closed


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Temp this evening 104 f, she wonuld not eat anything but green oak leaves. I gave a banamine and an antibiotic shot. Herbal wormer and GI smoother, Digestzen, ACV, Aloe J, and cut up leaves mixed in the alfalfa with yogurt. She would not even look at it. In the morning I’m giving her a B complex shot. Her temp swinging like it does is a puzzle.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Best of luck to you. I do hope she turns around soon.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> Temp this evening 104 f, she wonuld not eat anything but green oak leaves. I gave a banamine and an antibiotic shot. Herbal wormer and GI smoother, Digestzen, ACV, Aloe J, and cut up leaves mixed in the alfalfa with yogurt. She would not even look at it. In the morning I'm giving her a B complex shot. Her temp swinging like it does is a puzzle.


Are you taking the temps at the same times each day or different times? In the mornings... if it was a cool night and she has not been up moving around that could be the cause of the low temps. Then the evening ones.... had she been out flitting around or lazing around or was it warm outside. Outside things can also affect temps drastically. Even if she just ran across a wide expanse to get to you it can raise that temp up a bit. Temps can vary SO much by what the animal is doing ten to thirty minutes before you take it.

Ask your vet if it is ok to keep giving the banamine. Iirc she has had it for quite a few days in a row now. It is only meant for a few days at a time. After that is can start to cause problems even though it is a wonderful med.

Have you tried giving different things at different time instead of all at once on her? It could be something is upsetting her tum making her not want to eat.

What about trying store bought probios on her. The yogurt may not have as much concentrated good for her stuff in it as a tube kind. That way you can shoot it in her mouth and she really has no choice in taking them or not. You can drench the slurry as well if it is mushy enough.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I agree, yogurt is better for short term use and probiotics that are goat specific will always be better.

The not eating will result in a lower temp, I see no reason why you shouldn’t make an alfalfa pellet slurry and drench it.

I think banamine needs to be stopped at this point.

How many days of Nuflor are you at?


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## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

Wow! Your poor girl sure has been threw a lot. 
A few things that I have not seen.....oh! I should probably mention I am Jessica84 but it’s not letting me long in (guess I ticked someone off lol)
But 1. Have you actually listened to her rumen to see if it’s off. I think Sfwife is onto something about heats. It’s awful odd that it’s almost like clockwork correct? Kinda like a heat comes like clock work? She is off feed just for roughly 24 hours right? Or am I not understanding your first post correctly? 
2. IF her rumen is truly off have you tried a cud transfer? That does some seriously amazing things. 
Reading all the replies, honestly her system has been threw a lot. A lot of worming, antibiotics, and a lot of different natural remedies which I do have to a degree is less harsh on the system then chemicals BUT we are still talking about a lot of changes for this poor girl. And to be honest not really a lot of time to see if it’s working before moving onto something new. You very possible might have started out with something that as simple as a heat and now her rumen is off. But before going to the drawing board again listen to that rumen! When my does come into heat a lot of them are not eating during it. They are just as bad as bucks and only care about getting knocked up. Some of them they just scream and go on with life like normal but it is not uncommon to be off feed especially if there is a handsome dude around to catch their eye and make them forget about food.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I agree, yogurt is better for short term use and probiotics that are goat specific will always be better.
> 
> The not eating will result in a lower temp, I see no reason why you shouldn't make an alfalfa pellet slurry and drench it.
> 
> ...


Day 5 on Nuflor, temp this morning 102.4f. I gave her all the herbals and digestzen. She would not eat the alfalfa yogurt mix this morning but is eating hay. I know I shouldn't have but I mixed a tad of oats in her trough with the alfalfa and she went to eating with her buddies. I am not sure this is a total stomach thing now. I think it is heat cycle related. I am stopping the banamine and the Nuflor now for a while. She did eat a few green oak leaves. The ACV she absolutely don't like. I didn't give it this morning. Maybe once a day? I did see her eat some grass in the pen. I gave her a B Coplex shot this morning also. I waited a good while to get a fecal but she didn't do anything. And I was running late. I spent a good 50 minutes with her. No pellets, when I didn't need pellets she was bombing the pen, lol i temp check her again this evening. It's 52 degrees here this morning. I gave all the rest of my goats the nasal pneumonia vaccines Friday but not her yet, Maybe when her temps are good for 3-4 days straight I'll do her. Every one gets selium dose Ext weekend but her also.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Day 5 on Nuflor, temp this morning 102.4f. I gave her all the herbals and digestzen. She would not eat the alfalfa yogurt mix this morning but is eating hay. I know I shouldn't have but I mixed a tad of oats in her trough with the alfalfa and she went to eating with her buddies. I am not sure this is a total stomach thing now. I think it is heat cycle related. I am stopping the banamine and the Nuflor now for a while. She did eat a few green oak leaves. The ACV she absolutely don't like. I didn't give it this morning. Maybe once a day? I did see her eat some grass in the pen. I gave her a B Coplex shot this morning also. I waited a good while to get a fecal but she didn't do anything. And I was running late. I spent a good 50 minutes with her. No pellets, when I didn't need pellets she was bombing the pen, lol i temp check her again this evening. It's 52 degrees here this morning. I gave all the rest of my goats the nasal pneumonia vaccines Friday but not her yet, Maybe when her temps are good for 3-4 days straight I'll do her. Every one gets selium dose Next weekend but her also.


Oh yeah, THANKS


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

ACV is fine once a day.

I’d wait a long time, if ever, to give the pneumonia vaccine to such a compromised goat.

It sounds like her digestion is a lot better. I would pause DigestZen daily but continue with oils 3 days on 4 days off. Once she reaches 10 days of the herbal wormer, I’d move to 3 days on 4 days off.

Lots of green leaves, oak, pine. I’d love to get more fresh browse into her.

Chaffhaye may be a good little addition to her diet (due to fermentation) and it may entice her more!!

I’d love for you to consider some red raspberry leaf in her diet regularly, I love this for horses when they go through rough heats. It really helps!! You can use the dry herb.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

If we stop Nuflor, continue garlic daily as a natural antibiotic to be safe. By this I mean, get it in her no matter what.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is doing a bit better. :hug:
You are doing a great job.

Hope her temp remains normal. 
That is what is getting to me is, that higher temp at times and not eating well.

Really good advice by all.

I would get the rumen probiotics for cattle or goats. It will help her rumen tremendously. Give it 2 x a day.

Listen to her left side, if her rumen sounds are pretty good or weak.


You can glove up and rob poo from the rectum.
mg:
I know, I know, eww, but it works if you want it quickly. Instead of following her around.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> ACV is fine once a day.
> 
> I'd wait a long time, if ever, to give the pneumonia vaccine to such a compromised goat.
> 
> ...


I have no idea where red raspberry leaves could be found. I may have some blackberry left.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Tea section of most stores.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/18/20-temp 102.3, gave antibiotic shot, (last one), gave herbal wormers, slippery elm on her feed with garlic yogurt mixed together in the alfalfa. She ate a little but not much. Her buddies googled it up. I noticed her rubbing her gums or tongue on the wire fence. It may be because of the herbal wormers I gave her before she ate. I didn’t have time to get oak leaves this evening. She is chewing her cud and I saw her eat some hay and a little grass. I heard rumen sounds when I was checking her breathing. Breathing sounds good to me. I still believe now it’s her heat cycle causing her spiking in temperature. I will have the wife to look when she goes grocery shopping again Thursday. The small store near me doesn’t have a tea section and Walmart is 25 miles from me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad she is doing OK.

Good luck with her.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Temp this morning was 102.3, gave herbals. No oils, I only mixed feed with a little slippery elm and probotics. She ate some and a few oak leaves. She won’t even look at pine or cedar needles. I saw her head butt a couple of times at the trough. Will try ACV this evening and get another fecal from her and Abel.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:great:


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/19/20
Evening temp 103.7, gave Aloe 5ml, ACV/water 5ml, herbal wormer and GI smoother. She ate some alfalfa,slippery elm probotics mixed in feed.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Any updated fecal?


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Any updated fecal?


I waited on her yesterday morning (like to been late for work) and yesterday evening ( late for dinner) and she didn't do anything. It I don't get it this morning I may have to glove up this evening. Today she gets her last loader dose of herbals. Then I go 4 days off. I'll do the ACV this evening and the Aloe. She hates both of these. I'll do temp this morning also.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/20/20-temp 101.7, gave last loader dose or GI smoother and DWA wormer. Waited on fecal but she never went. She ate hay and alfalfa with top dressed slippery elm and probotics powder. I guess I’ll have to glove up this evening.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/20/20-I did not do anything this evening to her. She has had so much done to her and the fact she came in and ate with her buddies and this morning was her 10th day of loader dose of herbals, and her acting normal and ate well, I decided not to do anything and give her a break. When she finish eating I just rub her down and spoke soft words to her. I did get her some green leaves for her and she ate those. Still didn’t get that fecal, well maybe tomorrow.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

10/21/20	Only gave feed top dressed in probiotics and garlic cloves covered in peanut butter, no temp check or fecal pulled
She is doing good
I’ll start the EO,s this evening. Herbals also. Do I just do once a day of regular doseage for 3 days then off 4? Also do I do the digestzen and lastly can the other oil be mixed with the digestzen and given at same time? Should I keep with the GI soother or just the dewormer.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can mix all eos and dose at once with olive oil. If you mix herbs with water to drench you can add the eos to that as well so one dose for all .


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

All together is fine, use the DigestZen in the same way as the other EOs.

Use both GI Soother and DWA together 3 days on 4 days off for another couple times, then back down to twice a week for both.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> All together is fine, use the DigestZen in the same way as the other EOs.
> 
> Use both GI Soother and DWA together 3 days on 4 days off for another couple times, then back down to twice a week for both.


But just one time a day and not morning and evening?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Yes


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes


And only the regular dose, not the loader dose?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

TCOLVIN said:


> And only the regular dose, not the loader dose?


Move to DWA and GI Soother once a day, 3 days on, 4 days off, at the normal dosage on the package.

After a few rounds, move to twice a week, normal dosage, once a day.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Temp this evening was 102.3, gave the herbals and oils as suggested. I didn’t give the aloe or ACV. She doesn’t like either of them. How often does she need this? I also got a fecal of solid berries. I put it in my goat ice box until I can get my grand son in law to show me how to read it. He works for a old vet who wont see anything but cats and dogs. He has worked with him since high school (12 years) and says he can show me how to do the fecals and to distinguish between Coccidia and trash and also barberpole. The vet he works for won’t even accept a fecal brought in to him on a goat to read. Ellie is on her up swing now so I’ll close this thread as long as she is doing as good as she is now. Thanks for all your help and I will post from time to time her continued improvement. The herbals and oils I will continue 3 on and 4 off. Let me know about the aloe and ACV. My wife will look for red raspberry leaves Thursday when she goes to Walmart. What does the raspberry do?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

No need to close the thread. If I come up with anything new I'd like to be able to let you know.

Goat eggs look different than dog and cat eggs, give him an online chart. Just to make sure.

Do not let the berries freeze, only refrigerated!!

Do the ACV and aloe once weekly for a couple weeks then stop.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> No need to close the thread. If I come up with anything new I'd like to be able to let you know.
> 
> Goat eggs look different than dog and cat eggs, give him an online chart. Just to make sure.
> 
> ...


Ok, I won't close thread. And again, thanks for your interest and help with Ellie. He (grand son in law) ask me did I have a chart and told me that Coccidia is a hard one to find but he could show me. When he first started with the vet they saw large animals such as , cows, goats, sheep and pigs. He made farm calls and would go out but age stopped all that. My refrigerator for goat supplies is a wine cooler. I have it set on 46 degrees. Ok on the aloe and ACV. I'll probably do that for the next two Saturdays. EO's and herbals, Wednesday thru Friday and ACV and aloe on Saturday's for two weeks. Thanks again for all you have done.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Ok, I won't close thread. And again, thanks for your interest and help with Ellie. He (grand son in law) ask me did I have a chart and told me that Coccidia is a hard one to find but he could show me. When he first started with the vet they saw large animals such as , cows, goats, sheep and pigs. He made farm calls and would go out but age stopped all that. My refrigerator for goat supplies is a wine cooler. I have it set on 46 degrees. Ok on the aloe and ACV. I'll probably do that for the next two Saturdays. EO's and herbals, Wednesday thru Friday and ACV and aloe on Saturday's for two weeks. Thanks again for all you have done.


She was fine this evening and I pray she continues. Eats good, drinks water, I am continuing the slippery elm and garlic and probiotics top dressed on the alfalfa pellets.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

I went to Walmart today to look for the red raspberry leaves. After searching thru all I could fine I ask a couple of Walmart employees and they didn’t know if they carried them or not. I found raspberry tea bags but didn’t get them.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Order online.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Just did a fecal on Ellie:
Saw 3 whip worms
2 Coccidia
13 barberpole
This was done on a green grid McMaster slide with 5 grams fecal and 30ml floatation
I only did 1 green grid as the other side didn’t fill well and it was getting dark. She is way better that last fecal. If I can next week I want to take a fecal from her and carry to vet and I’ll run my fecal as a test for me.
Another goats that started scouring is Lottie.
She tested:
1100 per gram on barberpole
3 Coccidia.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

That is so good to hear.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Do the same worming program on Lottie with all oils and for meadow herbs.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> That is so good to hear.


Will the herbs kill the whip worms?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

They should, or at least keep the epg at an acceptable level.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Has anyone tried using the camera for a microscope? Seems it would be easier to see on your laptop what your looking at in the scope.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

TCOLVIN said:


> Has anyone tried using the camera for a microscope? Seems it would be easier to see on your laptop what your looking at in the scope.


If so what is a good brand or model to get?


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