# help chicken killer :(



## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

what do i do? do i just not have chickens?
she also plays chase with my goat kids when they squeeze out of the fence, not all the time but probably 25%( i see it thru the window and run down to save the goat and get after the dog). i bought a zap collar which sort of redirects her attention to me. but i am lost. she is here to protect not kill/chase everything. she is long line tied during the day when i work(4 days a week). other times she is outside the pasture and wonders around and follows me with chores or i take her on walks. i tried to teach her to play fetch or something to makeher brain tired but she is not one of those types of dogs. i even get butcher bones which she grows tired of and just bury's. she killed my rooster yesterday, i had her in the yard was watching her for an hour as i couldnt catch the dang chickens but she seemed to be doing good playing with the neighbor dog. well the lady came back to fetch her dog and my dog got excited. the 5 min i wasnt watching she jumped the gate chased the chicken ( i dont even know where he was as i couldnt seem him from the yard)down the hill and pulled out 90 percent of the feathers and then brought it back up where i saw her and yelled and spanked her but of course doesnt do anything, she drop it right away. the other dog cant jump out of the yard and ignores chickens.
i know it was my fault since i knew she can jump the gate if she really wanted to but she cant play on a tie. my chickens are very expensive and i dont want them to slowly die from my dog or worse maul a goat.
i am hoping to save enough to use horse no climb on the one side of the pasture where its currently field fencing and put a hot wire that is actually hot on the top, no electric so have to figure out a solar/battery one.

my last two dogs i was able to teach to leave my chickens alone. but they were more submissive type i think. this gal she doesnt like when your mad but its not the end of the world kind of thing. i cant get rid of her, she keeps big predators away and i have grown fond of the little stinker. but if she keeps this up then i will have to try to find a more experienced home for her. I spent a lot of $ on her and i did try to find an older dog that was trained but no luck. i just need help! she is a year in December.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

How old is she and what breed?


----------



## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

year in december. she is a sarplaninac. she was shipped here in june.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I have never heard of that breed! I'm not much of a "dog whisperer" but at a year old she's still a "pup" and I think she should be trainable at that age, but I'm no expert. I know with both my LGD's they had a tendency to chase and grab baby goats when they were young. They would try to pick the baby goats up by the backs of their necks as if they were pups, and this of course is a HUGE no-no! The main thing for me was to allow the dogs to be with the goats under supervision on a daily basis, but not allow unsupervised time together until I was certain they were trustworthy (which wasn't until after 2 years old). I'm not sure how it works with chickens, but hopefully others will chime in with some advice for you. There are a lot of folks here with a lot more experience with LGD's than I have.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Are you using a high enough setting on your shock collar and or is the collar actually contacting her skin enough? I know by pictures of sarplaniacs that they are fluffy so if the little nodes are being insulated by fluff that could be the problem. I don't have much LGD experience either, but I do know that the best way to teach them is through clear boundaries and to do that you need an affective way of disciplining her.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Those are beautiful dogs! (I too never heard of them..but Googled lol) I would think investing in some training from a professional would be warranted. As Damfino said..she is young and should still be teachable. It's in her blood to protect...she just needs guidance. Maybe pen your chickens up to be safe until you have her under control. Walking her on a leash among the goats and chickens quickly correcting any unwanted attention would be a good start


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get a anti jump harness.
And be sure as suggested, the prongs of The zapper, is touching and making good contact with the skin.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...MIyIWEgZGk7wIV6yitBh3sRQ0SEAQYASABEgL85fD_BwE


----------



## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

okay so i just bought the collar not long ago, i put the long prongs on the collar, i didnt realize the number or intensity of the shock goes to a certain number then back to 0 plus i cant put it in my pocket or the button would get hit and would shock her for know reason. but im getting used to it. during the day normally if she gets a bit excited at all with the goat kids playing on the other side of the fence i do zap her but maybe i should put it higher, i think its on number 10 and think it goes to 14. she kind of shakes her head and walks away. im not sure if a jumping harness would work i think she would chew it in two seconds flat. i might just shave her under her neck so i dont have to choke her trying to get it on over all her hair and maybe go down to the shorter prongs.
i have a whole week off soon so will be home alot waiting on kids. so she will be wearing it all day every day so might work better. 
so for the chickens i need to move them by the barn. should i try to sell them or just hope i can do better on keeping them in? there are only four hens now but they arent as squaky as the rooster was so it helps


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Instead of going straight to the zap, I would encourage you to first try verbally reprimanding your dog. If you can see her from the house, you should be able to open a window and yell. Better yet, go outside, stand over her, and give her a good dressing-down in person. She'll probably roll on her back and whimper and lick her teeth and grovel while you scold and that's exactly what you want. 

The shock collar is for when she doesn't respond to a verbal command. Shock collars are a wonderful training tool, but in my experience they work best as a backup for verbal communication. If she doesn't listen, zap her until she does! Dogs love pleasing and working for people. If your dog knows you are personally upset by the way she treats your livestock, she's more likely to think it through and correct not just her behavior, but her whole attitude. 

I also like to make a point of praising my dogs when I notice them interacting well with my goats. I bought my dog Pluto as a puppy so I had to train him from scratch. He had a tendency to get excited and play rough or chase the baby goats when they ran, and I also caught him trying to pick them up by the "scruff" (which baby goats don't have!). I reprimanded him every time I saw him behave roughly, but I also took a few occasions to invite Pluto over to the baby goats to sniff and interact while I was with them. That way he had a positive experience that didn't involve chasing, wrestling, or grabbing goats, nor did it involve Pluto getting scolded or zapped. I didn't want him to be afraid of the kids, or run away from them if he saw me coming. I just wanted him to learn how to interact with them appropriately. Now I trust him fully around goats of all ages. 

Maybe it would be a good idea to bring your dog into the chicken area while you clean and feed. Praise your dog for being still and quiet. Allow her to sniff a chicken and praise her for being gentle with it. If she starts to get excited, reprimand. If she doesn't calm down, scold her and put her out of the pen. She should feel ashamed, and she needs to know that these are animals that you care about. If she feels loyalty to you, she should feel loyalty to everything you care about.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Damfino said:


> The shock collar is for when she doesn't respond to a verbal command. Shock collars are a wonderful training tool, but in my experience they work best as a backup for verbal communication. If she doesn't listen, zap her until she does! Dogs love pleasing and working for people. If your dog knows you are personally upset by the way she treats your livestock, she's more likely to think it through and correct not just her behavior, but her whole attitude.


^^This!^^ 
My Anatolians hate nothing more than my disapproval. If they do something I don't like, initially I'll yell at them to stop them from doing it, but then I will go over to them and sternly stare them down until they lay down and show submission. They then get no loving from me for a while, not even eye contact. I have gotten their respect this way.

If you are having trouble with the shock collar controller pushing it's own buttons in your pocket, put it on a lanyard if it has a metal loop for one. It can then go around your neck or be fastened to a belt loop so you can have it handy all the time.


----------



## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

thank you for replying! at first i did use the noise feature if she didnt listen, it works on basic things like when she doesnt get super excited with the goats. then i went to the vibration when she kept trying to chase the horse. the horse wasnt worried but i was worried she would get kicked. it worked the first few times but she kept at it every few days. so the same time the horse was going to kick i used the shock and it worked(she didnt cry but did jog away the opposite direction). she still follows the horse on occasion but so far she isnt flat out trying to get it to run(my mare is awesome and is really patience with dogs. i do tell her to leave it.. first. i dont think she is that loyal with me. she only laid on her back once after .. i was chasing her down trying to get her to stop chasing a goat a few months ago, i was so mad.

the only thing she seems to do well is siting while waiting for her food and then ignoring it until i tell her ok. and she comes 65 percent of the time. so i try not to call her unless i know i can go get her. she has good leash training and walks great on a leash. and try to be positive when she does well or when she ignores a goat when i tell her to leave it. she gets happy for a second when i praise her but if i praise too much she gets too excited and wants to chase. did i mention i never had a puppy before all my dogs were around 2 when i got them...


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I use the zapper and at the same time, I say a stern “NO”!
So eventually, I don’t need to zap and will get the same response. They stop.


----------



## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

well, i thought she was doing slightly better but somehow when i was putting the chickens back in the pen (before i untie the dog)one went by me and the dang dog killed it and started to eat her. ahhh what am i supposed to do? just not have poultry?. then last week, i left her for 10 seconds to pour water in the goats pail and she had a buckling by the back (he went thru the livestock fence), not sure if she was going to kill him or just play until he died. i ran over and yelled at her and she dropped him and jogged away from me. luckily he didnt have any punctures. ( i am hoping to get the no climb horse fence to replace the field fence but working overtime and not days off in a row plus all the other million things to do just hasnt gotten finished yet.)
i just bought a "real" brand zapper (sport dog)so now i guess i just have to have it on her anytime she is off leash. I used in once on 4 and she turned the other way quick so it works alot better. i try hard not to use it and really pay attention to where she is. i shouldnt have any more kids for awhile so i think that will help. i just am so frustrated. so she is almost a year and a half, please tell me she will get better! my hubby wants to sell her since she is alot of trouble(chewing on everything, digging holes(we have moles so i dont count that), pulling up plants and eating them). I know when i work four days straight she is hipper so i really watch her but the days i have off she is with me all the time and gets a ton of exercise. i also buy butcher bones for her to chew on as the bully sticks dont last long anymore. She also plays with her jolly ball when bored, i have yet to find anything else with a handle that she wont destroy quickly.


----------



## JML Farms (Jan 1, 2021)

I'm so sorry. You've been given some really great advice. However, it's been my experience that some dogs have the "I like chicken" gene bred into them. It's almost a game to them, and they kill for sport rather than food, often times killing multiple chickens at once. Through the years, I've avoided any type of bird dog or hunting dog simply because it's in their nature to chase and kill things. Also, it's been my experience that if I can get the dog as a young pup and raise it around my chickens, it does a lot better than bringing in an almost grown dog. I've found the old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" to be true the majority of the time. In the end, I either had to get rid of the dog or keep my chickens in a dog proof pen. I hope you are able to find a solution. I might also add that if this dog has started harassing your young goat, it may be time to think about an alternative. Just my opinion.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I sadly have to agree.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Even in LGD breeds, some dogs just aren't cut out to be actual guardians. Did you have a professional trainer come out and help you?


----------

