# Alfalfa killing does???????????????????????????????????????



## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

Ok so I just read a post elswhere about Alfalfa being bad for does, before, and after kidding??? They said they wouldn't risk feeding it?? :scratch: 
Am I missing something here??? I thought Alfalfa was good cause they need the calcium, ESPECIALLY because they are prego to avoid hypocalcemia?? 
I'm thinking this is not right, but wanted to make sure.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

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Well, if that is true :chin: my goats will not be long for this world.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

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Don't believe it. I feed year round 1st/2nd/3rd/4th cutting...and have never had issues with it. I feed it to bucks and does. They do great on it. I'm feeding dairy quality, rich alfalfa and i've never lost a goat from it. You do need to be careful switching goats onto it...take it slowly...but after that they do great on it though having grass hay available along with it is good too.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

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They been eatin it for 6yrs. Guess they should be dead a long time ago.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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Well mine should have long been dead too!! I just thought that was CRAZY???

Anyone know WHY someone would think that??


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

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I know for some animals a large amount of Alfalfa can make them sick, like when little kids eat only sweets. Didn't know it could be a problem for larger animals


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

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I don't know why they would say that. One thing maybe is they're having an issue with bloat...the richer feed can bring on bloat easier. That's why it's always important to have baking soda available. I personally have fed alfalfa since i've had goats and have never lost one to bloat. For bucks, UC is a mild concern...but they can get it on any feed really.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

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What??? :shocked: That is really wrong info you are reading there...you are correct in doubting what you are reading.......Alfalfa is really good for goats...from the young to the old ..especially the preggo...thin goats gain well on it........if a breeder is just introducing it.....it must be gradually fed... to get their systems use to it ...if you feed them to much to fast.... they can bloat and get scours...bucks and whethers can get Urinary stones if not fed proper ratio or given _Ammonium chloride_......Goats do really well on it... I feed my preggo Does..non preggo goats and our bucks it all the time.... never had issues...


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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LOL Ok just makin sure I'm not the nutty one! :wink:

And same here EVERYONE gets Alfalfa!!! The bucks get AC in thier minerals just as a precaution!


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

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I don't know why someone would think that. Our milking does get alfalfa every meal and are fine. :chin: :shrug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

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I think the issue is that alfalfa needs to be cut and dried right. Most times it is not dried right, and it molds. At least around here every single bale I've gotten has had some mold in it. So the alfalfa could kill. But as long as it is dried right it is awesome to feed.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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Wow.....I've never had a problem here with it not being dried right?? Wierd!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

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Well different areas can grow different things. This area is not good for alfalfa.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

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That's to bad. Around here...we have near perfect weather for alfalfa. People always want the central or easter WA hay.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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Lucky us I guess!! I know different things grow better in certain areas, but I wonder why it wouldn't dry? Too humid?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

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We never had a long enough dry stretch it seems. They never ever let it dry long enough.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

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Alfalfa is very prone to mold. It has to be grown in a fairly dry area or it will get mold even before being cut. So bailing alfalfa has to be done correctly and at the right time.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

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This is really interesting. In NM alfalfa is the biggest agricultural crop, and I have always fed it almost exclusively to my goats because I usually can't get anything else. In 7 years I have seen a few (very few) suspicious bales, which have become mulch for my rose beds. The grower has to know how to dry them right and bale them at the right time. Sometimes crops can get ruined by rain after they have been cut.

I've never had bloat or any problems. I put ammonium chloride in the water in a preventive amount in any pen where there is a male. Most pens. I haven't ever had a goat die yet of anything.

Jan


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

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> LOL Ok just makin sure I'm not the nutty one! :wink:
> 
> And same here EVERYONE gets Alfalfa!!! The bucks get AC in thier minerals just as a precaution!


 :laugh: :hi5:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

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Okay, New Mexico is VERY dry. We are probably a nearly perfect place to grow alfalfa. I have given some bad flakes to the goats, partly because I have some help part of the time, and they refuse to touch it. My kid helper has learned now and we both know not to give it to them. It is very obvious when it is bad.

Jan


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

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I live in Arizona and alfalfa is everywhere. I get mine from a grower about 25 minuets away from me. I get the #1 quality and have never gotten a bad bale yet. Before I got it from them I got it from the feed store I get feed from (which is oddly enough only five minuets from the grower) but their quality was all over the place. At times I would get nice high protein small stalked alfalfa and sometimes it would be stalky and full of sticks that my goats were absolutely got going to eat.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

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the idea is that by feeding alfalfa the doe is not properly making her own calcium stores and then when kids she doesnt have the needed calcium stores to bring her through it and can get milk fever I believe it is.

I feed alfalfa year round and not had issues post kidding. I also supplement with calcium drench before and after kidding.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

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Ooooohhhhh ok. I knew there had to ne some sort of theory( good or bad) behind the thinking!? Just didn't know what???


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

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I feed alfalfa to everyone - pretty much year round if I can ;-)


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

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The reason they say this for pregnant & freshening ruminants is because of hypocalcemia (or milk fever).

I've rarely heard of this in goats, but for dairy cows it was often a concern. Hormones during pregnancy & early lactation combined with feeding high quality alfalfa would actually have a reverse affect on calcium absorption.

A similar comparison would be if you were to eat broccoli (high in oxalic acid) and had a glass of milk. The oxalic acid would limit the utilization of the calcium. It's a bit different with alfalfa & hypocalcemia; instead of broccoli; hormones, and insted of milk; alfalfa. The camcium isn't utilized correctly, resulting in hypocalcemia.

edit: Guess Stacey got to it before I did.
Also, it's not that the animal is depleted in calcium, the calcium is there, its just not being used to right way. During pregancy animals need a certain calcium level, depending on your hay, supplementing calcium can help or hinder.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

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I could see this as being more probable when you suddenly change to alfalfa after kidding when not feeding all year round.

And Amos is right I have heard that its more common in dairy cows but not much research id done for goats (whats new) so I believe the chance was just transferred over to goats via common theory.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

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http://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/Symposium/1998/Evaluating Hay for Horses.htm

This is a good article about alfalfa and horses. It lists the food value percentages of alfalfa and various hays. You can see there is a marked difference in the amount of calcium in the alfalfa. Some people think this can be an issue for some horses but I am not sure about goats.

edited to add: You can see that if calcium absorption is an issue, (as Stacey and Amos pointed out) added calcium in the alfalfa will make it more so.


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

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I had a "vet" (she was a vet I guess, but specialized in horses and cows)..anyway, she told me NEVER to feed goats alfalfa as it was too rich and could kill them....

but I didn't listen to her since her specialty was horses and cows...she also told me only to give grain as a treat and NOT daily...again didn't listen


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## Robynlynn (Jan 18, 2011)

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Alfalfa during the last 30 days of gestation is not good for some does. I got this info from Goat Rancher magazine, it's printed in the kiddding suppliment. I have had several dairy people get very upset with me when I say I don't feed alfalfa the last 30 days.
this is what it says..
"If feeding alfalfa hay or other legume hays, gradually discontinue offering it four weeks prior to kidding as they are too high in calcium.
As partutition (kidding) approaches, the does body must release calcium from her bones. If she is being fed a high calcium diet, this will not occur and milk fever may result. Milk fever is not a fever but in fact is hypoglycemia.
It is a complex process that is activated by feeding too much clacium-rich feed. This IS confusing, but please believe this statement."Suzanne Gasparotto Onion Creek Ranch
:chin:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

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well if suzanne is to be 100% accurate then all my does should get milk fever every time they kid. They are on straight alfalfa second cutting all year round.


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## Robynlynn (Jan 18, 2011)

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I think this is an issue for SOME does...I had a couple nubians that made milk like crazy.....they seemed to really have kidding issues...milk fever ect.
also, in the case where you are kidding out 100 does, prevention is a must.
We all learn what works for our animals..and make changes accordingly.
just like every other animal there are differences amoungst breeds and genetics.


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## Robynlynn (Jan 18, 2011)

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:thumb: sounds like you all have good genetics!


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

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I hope her statement had some research to back it up, not just 'Please believe this statement'. Lol.
I think painting a statement like that with such a wide brush can do more harm than good, I think you're right about 'some does', Robyn, it's ver much an individual thing, vs. one size fits all.

I'd reckon that cutting out alfalfa could also help ketosis along for certain animals, so there needs to be a balance.


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## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

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Yes, alfalfa hay can kill goats...so can grain...so can lush pasture. ANY sudden change in diet can cause severe bloat, acidosis, and death. Does that mean it is bad for them to eat it? No, of course not. Alfalfa is the best feed available for goats but it must be properly cured and introduced into a goat's diet gradually. Feeding goats alfalfa strait out of the field will very likely cause digestive issues but if the same hay is aged for a month and then mixed with the hay they are already getting for a couple weeks or so the chance of having any problems is very low.


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## Happy Hobby Farmer (May 16, 2011)

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FunnyRiverFarm said:


> Yes, alfalfa hay can kill goats...so can grain...so can lush pasture. ANY sudden change in diet can cause severe bloat, acidosis, and death. Does that mean it is bad for them to eat it? No, of course not. Alfalfa is the best feed available for goats but it must be properly cured and introduced into a goat's diet gradually. Feeding goats alfalfa strait out of the field will very likely cause digestive issues but if the same hay is aged for a month and then mixed with the hay they are already getting for a couple weeks or so the chance of having any problems is very low.


 :thumb:

My horses get straight alfalfa too, no problems.


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