# Help please



## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

History - A friend had a bunch of goats dropped off on his property to graze. Two nights ago during a big storm, one of them went in to labor (didn't even know any of the goats were pregnant). I guess the labor was many hours long and the baby was breech so my friend ended up having to pull the baby out. Momma goat has completely rejected the baby. My friend was able to hold her down so at least the little guy was able to get some colostrum. He has to work more than full time and is not able to take care of him during the week. So now the little guy is home with me and I have a bunch of questions.

1. I weighed him and he is about 3.5lbs...so with what I found online, I gave him 2oz of milk about 8pm last night. I was going to feed him every 6 hours, but he slept through the night. At 6am I gave him another 2oz and at 11am another 2oz. Both times I had to wake him up. Once he is awake he bleats, wags his little tail and doesn't have any problems with the bottle. When he is done he tries to eat my chin, nose, fingers, arm...anything that is close enough to him to potentially contain more milk. He also pees and poops after every meal.

*Am I feeding him enough? Is he sleeping too much? *

2. He will not stand up on his own. His back legs are completely stretched out and splayed. If I stand him up he can stay there, but is very shaky. He has tried to take a few steps, but only with the front legs and part of his body. I know he should be up and moving already. When he lays down he curls his front and back legs up and underneath him so I know he can bend them. He just doesn't seem to have the strength/coordination to use those hind legs to stand up.

_*What is the best way to get the little guy on his feet?*_

3. Last thing, his eyes are blood red. I don't mean blood shot. I mean the entire eyeball is a deep deep red. I have looked online and everything says pink eye. However he is newborn (and there is an incubation period). They are also not weepy or anything like that.

_*Is this normal? Could he be blind? *_

Sorry if any of this sounds ignorant...but I am in fact ignorant when it comes to this. My hope is to get him strong and able to rejoin his herd.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay a couple things jump out at me that yell "premie". Look inside his mouth and see if he has any teeth showing in the lower front of his mouth yet and see if he has any eyelashes. This will help us us age him.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

oh my goodness...he just did it...but then fell right down!

he does have little teeth on bottom. He does have little eyelashes on top.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like the breech birth could have put quite a bit of pressure on his eyes...hopefully that will clear up but be sure the lashes are not turned inward causeing irritation..

The weakness: Keep lifting him to his legs...work him out for about 10 minutes then let him rest...next feeding do it again...his muscles need excerise..
next I would get him BOSe or selenium Vit E gel...a squirt of Nutra drench would be good too...

as for how much to feed...3.5 pounds multiplied by 16 is 56 ounces..multiply that by 10%= is 5.6 ounces of milk a day...scooch it to 6 ounces..divide that into 4 bottles..so 1.5 ounces...2 ounces is pretty close : ) just watch her tummy..you want a firm but flat tummy..not sunken in or pooching out...

congrats..and best wishes


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, sleeping is normal for a weak kid. His eyes sound like they are bruised or maybe didn't form quite right. They may or may not clear up, that one is a hard call without seeing him. Do make sure his eyelashes are not rubbing on his eyes when he blinks.
What kind of milk are you feeding him? I'm one that feeds much more milk then others here so, I could tell you what I would feed and others will tell you that you'll kill your kid with that much food  What you want to see is his belly just beginning to pooch out a bit when he's done eating. Then make sure to give him time to digest his milk before giving more. Every 4 to 6 hours is good. Most importantly feed within a half hour of the same time every day and make sure the milk is the same temperature every time.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You type too fast Cathy


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..we think alike there Jill : ) ..I forgot to ask about the milk you are using??


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank you both!

I will head to the feed store and grab those things. My friend started him on goats milk so I was afraid to change it. What is best to give him moving forward?

I am so in love with him! He is all cuddled up with me right now and keeps making the cutest little noises.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Goats milk is best..if you cant continue with goats milk..switch to whole cows milk from the store...its better than replacer : ) 
They do worm their way into your heart fast!! if you keep him as a pet consider wethering him when he is older..wethers make wonderful pets..Bucks do not ..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Ha just wait. I just got home from town and my bottle baby laid curled in my lap the whole time I was driving 

I feed plain red top whole homogenized milk from the grocery store. I don't add anything to it except a tiny pinch of soda in the first morning bottle and a scoop of probiotics in the evening one.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

I should have been more clear....store bought goats milk, not fresh.

If his herd will take him back I think he may be happier. However I am a little weary of a "farmer" who drops off a bunch of goats and doesn't know one is pregnant! I know my kids would love to keep him!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I suspect he would be much happier as a pet. He will need one other baby goat for company though when he outgrows the house. If he turns out to be blind, most farmers won't even mess with him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..store bought goats milk is fine but cost a whole lot more than cows milk...

I agree with Goat hiker...he would be happier in your care..most likely the mom will not take him back and he would parish out there


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Ok so the local feed store only has colostrum powder. Do I need this?


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

None of the local stores have what you mentioned...only colostrum and milk replacers. Does anyone have a reliable online source I can buy from?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, quick, honest, and reliable...

http://www.jefferspet.com/selenium-vitamin-e-gel/camid/LIV/cp/0030913/cn/330/
I prefer this to Nutradrench...Your choice
http://www.jefferspet.com/jump-start-plus/camid/LIV/cp/CA-J1/cn/3309/
All goat owners need this.It will help strengthen him. 
http://www.jefferspet.com/product.asp?pn=16516&green=4C6A5CC5-085E-5111-9756-77782D0A1D78


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

No need for colostrum powder...just whole goats or cows milk.
BoSe is RX the OTC choice is selenium Vit e gel..and nutra drench is OTC as well...I order from Jeffers...since no one ever carries what you need when you need it lol..


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Ordered it all...but they do not have expedited delivery :-(


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I usually get my stuff in 3 days. In the meantime he can have half the oil out of a 400 mg vitamin E gel cap daily for 3 days. I give my big kids a full one but, he's tiny...


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Grover is doing very well this morning. The girls named him after the Satyr in the Percy Jackson books. He is getting up and down and tottering around a bit. My girls have found that if they get down on all fours like a goat he walks around underneath them....bleating, wagging his tail and suckling on their chins.

I am still giving him 2oz every 6 hours...but he seems to get hungry again about the 4 hour mark. I weighed him again this morning and I think he is about 5lbs. I don't have a very accurate scale (did the weigh me, then weigh us thing).




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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

weighing him that way its close enough....: ) it gives you an idea...5# = 80 oz...which is 8 onces of milk per day...divide into 4 feeding is 2 ounces..so he is doing well..you can scooch that up a little...not a lot..just watch hi tummy...looking for firm and fairly flat tummy, not too poochy. Remember, a bottle baby will guilt you into feeding more until he is so sick...be strong! : ) think about a mama goat who lets them feed just a few seconds and then walks away...she knows too much will cause tummy issues..

so glad he is doing good!


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

So what kind of goat is he?


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

He is a LUCKY goat to have your family! I am just guessing, Nubian maybe Nubian cross with who knows, he is tiny, cute and very lucky.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Awe thank you!!! We already love him so much ❤ I just found out we get to keep him too. Once I get him all settled, strong and healthy, I will see about getting him a playmate. 

Is there any need to take him to a get? Is he going to need shots? I know they recommend removing the horns and he will also need to be wethered (sp).

I guess it is time to read up more about raising goats 


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

he is cute....yes, does look Nubian


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

A vet visit wont hurt if you find a good vet to establish a working relationship with but you can give him his shots yourself..but he is much too young right now...disbudding happens when his horns are nuckle size -ish lol...not poking through but still round,if you search around there maybe a goat farm who does this successfully ( ask to see their handy work lol), here we shave the head, do the deed then spritz with ACV to cool the burn..we also give a tetanus antitoxin shot before hand. I would wether him around 4-6 months allowing time for his ureter to grow...we do this by banding, again tetanus antitoxin before hand...


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Ok new question.

I switched over to Whole Cows milk last night. He has eaten twice and both times when he goes to sleep after he sounds all congested and phlemy...he even kind of coughs/gags. Is this normal?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How much is he drinking per bottle??


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

2/12 oz per bottle. He was having the same amount of goats milk with no issues.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hum? maybe he having a bit of trouble digesting I might feed less but more often until he adapts..
how is heother wise? temp? pooping and peeing just fine..payful and energetic


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

He pees religiously 2 or 3 times after every feeding and usually poops. Yesterday his poop started to turn yellow and then all of a sudden the last 3 "pellets" we almost white. He hasn't pooped yet today so I don't know what it looks like. His energy has been good and he stays awake for a long time when the kids are home to play with him. He can stand on his own now and walk around..though he usually walks backwards. He hasn't really started any jumping, running or climbing as his legs are still pretty shaky. I will find my baby thermometer and take his temperature.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

102.6


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Has the nipple changed or is he drinking more vigorously? Maybe the flow is too fast. 


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

No...only change was type of milk. If he plays after instead of sleeping it doesn't happen.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Try putting a teeny tiny pinch of baking soda in his bottle. Cows milk is a little harder to digest so it will be a bit of a change for his stomach.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

kab76mom said:


> I know they recommend removing the horns and he will also need to be wethered (sp).
> 
> I guess it is time to read up more about raising goats


 Actually, removing horns is a convenience for the farmer.
I read that horns in hot desert areas are very important. They actually help release excess body heat! And wrapping the horns with a cold, wet cloth will cool them down greatly if they are overheated (important if packing.)

Of course, I am going to spend the rest of my goat's life dodging horns! (But they are so spectacular!)
:cart:


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Hmmm...I love on NorCal and we do get pretty hot in the summer. I do have 5 kids (2-14) so the worry me a little.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Horns are a personal choice. I've never noticed any difference in how hot they get between horned and unhorned goats, and I've owned many of both kinds. I take my disbudded goats hiking in all type of areas. They do just fine. Wattles are also a cooling organ and people have bred them out of most lines.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I love waddles!! just saying ...


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

Ok so I have some new info. The owners of the herd said that the reason the delivery was so yard is the baby was big. Apparently these are minis of some sort ranging from 25-45 lbs full grown. Here is a picture of mom and baby shortly after delivery.

Does this change anything about how much I feed him or in general how I care for him?









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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no....you will raise the same...
by moms ears if I see right..she is lamancha or lamancha cross..could be a mini lamancha but she looks pretty good size to me...

baby will need the same care...be sure to re weigh him every week to adjust his milk amount...

he looks cute snuggled with mom


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That baby is half Nubian. No wonder it was hard...Same advice from me.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

What can I do if I gave him too much of the selenium/vit e supplement. I pushed the plunger too hard and he got 5-6 instead of 2!!! I am worried I od'd him!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Just keep an eye on him. Nothing you can do or give him.


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## kab76mom (Apr 1, 2014)

:-( How long to work through his system?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I use BoSe so not sure but the oral doesn't last as long.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

there is not much you can do except maybe give an extra E cap..Goathiker can advise better on this but I remember her saying Vit e helps keep selenium fro becoming toxic... Private GoatHiker and ask her first but I might squeeze 1/2 a gel cap of Vit E a few times....??


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I already talked to her Cathy. It's all good, the baby didn't get anymore than the 3 day option for severely deficient newborns. As long as no more is given this month he'll be fine


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