# Buck dilemma



## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I have an opportunity to get a good Nigerian Dwarf buck from lines I really like for a decent price. He’s 6 months old, ADGA registrable (so I’ll have to do it), clean tested herd with a good reputation, and will have the *B. My problem is, I don’t have a buddy for him. I will likely have options for bucklings come March, but that one would be 7 months younger, so I still can’t put a buckling in as a buddy for him. Getting a wether isn’t a great option because if I’m going to take on the cost of feeding a goat, I need it to be one that can produce. 

Right now, I have three registered ND does and that’s it. I want to breed them sometime around September. Here’s my two options as I see it:

1. Don’t get this buck and get two bucklings in the spring (I’m assuming I’ll be able to), so they can be buddies and hopefully be ready to breed at 6 months old. So there’s a few gambles there but nothing incredibly risky, I think. Those of you who know more, please correct me if I’m wrong. 

2. Get the 6 month old buck I like, fairly certain he’ll be ready for an early fall breeding, but he’d have to be kept separate (side by side though, until I get him a buddy, so still able to see and hear the other goats through a double fence), and be out with them large chunks of most days with an apron and my supervision. I don’t want to make him miserable and lonely though, and I don’t know if this is enough to overcome that. 

Has anyone been able to make it work like this? Or do you think I should pass on this guy and shoot for two little bucklings (hopefully from pairings I like) in the spring (and hope they figure out the breeding when it’s time)?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You could also get a buck apron.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am trying to think of people who have or had only one buck.
@Feira426 @alwaystj9 @Iluvlilly!


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## Elbee (12 mo ago)

I've never used a buck apron... I have kept different aged bucks together with good results. I would think a six month old would take to a little buddy just fine. Maybe just make a safe spot for the younger buck to scamper off to just to be safe.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Option number two sounds like it would work great. My buck gets to see and hear the other goats (only a gate separating them) and he seems to be fine. He doesn't have a buddy since my set up just needs one buck.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

I'd wait and get the two ( if you can).


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## Lilgoatgal (Dec 17, 2021)

I'm going to be in this position this year too. I decided to add a small temporary pen inside the buck pen to put the younger goat(s), hoping they will acclimate and keep each other company rather than have my boys too close to the girls. Then move them together with a crate the little one can hid in if needed. My thought was, like @Elbee above, that the several months old buckling will probably do pretty well with the little one once they know each other. 
Looking forward to reading the other opinions on this one


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

I have done the one buck, and the 2 buck...and the 3 buck...I rarely have wethers around..
Tickfaw lives with the does 5-7 months each year, the rest of the time he is in a buck pen or tied out.
He is almost always in sight of the does and usually has at least one chicken with him. He does fine, but he has a large pen with things to bash around, climb on and scratch against.
He is a bit hard on fencing and I have to check it daily. Since I brought him in this year he is getting rather porky so right now he is mad because of his diet rations. Today he is happily staked out at the edge of some brush, visible from where I am sitting.
In a multiple buck situation, I have only ever kept them in a pasture together, I have never tried to keep them close-penned.
If that situation is available, it worked great up to 5 bucks on 1+ acres, different ages & no issues.
I have actually run a breeding herd with 2 bucks running loose with the does and, except for not really knowing who was each baby-daddy, no issues.
I do not plan to ever have more than one buck here at a time again.
I tried the apron and it seemed great, but it was actually an 80% failure.
I am lucky it was not that big a deal, I was only trying to delay the breeding season for my own convenience.
It did work on 2 does, the tallest doe I have and the shortest did not get bred until I took the apron off.
I do plan on trying again with the new buck, Ernest, so he'll be out in the herd, apron on, once he gets settled in.
I have put precocious bucklings (6 weeks until sold) in with Tick few times, I made a creep feeder setup in one corner of the pen as a safety & feeding zone.
It drives Tick nuts but just because he cannot get to the feed, not because of the buckling. It does make handling the buckling, getting him in to his momma for nursing, etc. a bit difficult.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you all so much! You’re making me feel a bit better about making it work with just one (at least for the time being). I like this guy and I’m not going to find one with his lines at this price very often. He’s not a steal but a good deal at least. And my girls will be one next month, so if an accidental breeding did occur, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, just not my preferred timing. I am really leaning toward getting him. I’m trying to figure out my quarantine pen now (which I’ll need either way). What distance apart do their fences need to be? I can make a small shelter beside the barn for the buck and then fence off a portion for him, but it runs against their fence. I will be putting hardware cloth on the bottom 2-3 feet of adjoining fence and he’ll get to run with the turkeys during quarantine. But I don’t know how far to build a temporary fence back on the adjoining part for quarantine purposes so they don’t go nose to nose. Or am I trying to overdo it?


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I have two bucklings, one 5 months, the other 3 months. The older one was weaned and being a little too sweet with his sisters so he had to go in a pen by himself during he day and in a stall with my Nubian at night (she was too big for him). Once the younger one was weaned he got put with Heath and they are doing great. They rough house but only for play. I do notice Heath being a little rough with Bobby when there’s only a little bit of food left but Bobby is learning to stand his ground.


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## brigieboo (Apr 8, 2021)

I have one buck, he's 4 and I've had him for 2 years.... he's lived by himself his whole life besides when he's with the girls... That's what his old owner did and he was perfectly fine by himself so I just left him, easier for me lol. He's been in and out of being with the steers, and he always did fine with them, it was just too hard to keep him out of their grain. A younger goat tho might not do as well.... Do u have any other animals besides goats that might be able to go with him?


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

FizzyGoats said:


> What distance apart do their fences need to be?


Just far enough that they can't breed through. 😉

My vote is get him. Especially if you have the potential to get him a buddy in as soon as March. That's not that long to wait. And a seven month old and a three month old probably wouldn't be_ that _huge of a size difference. Not like integrating an adult with a kid. You'll definitely want a safe spot for a little guy to get away, but overall I think it's completely doable.

I've been wondering when you were going to add a buck. I'm glad to hear it could be soon! Very exciting!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

How exciting that you'll be adding bucks to your herd soon!! 😁

This past fall, I introduced my eight week old Tater to 7-8 month old Oreo. It went pretty well! Oreo was really happy to have a buddy! Oreo was pretty excited for the first few hours and was doing a lot of humping (no butting) on Tater. I also noticed that Oreo would get more excited when I was by them so I tried to stay away from them unless necessary for the first few days. When I would sneak over to check on the boys, Oreo would be very calm and nice to Tater until I got too close, that's when he would start mounting Tater again.

If you really like the buckling, then I too would go for him!! Just one thing I thought I'd bring up, great pedigrees are definitely good to have, but sometimes goats don't "read" (follow) their pedigrees. I've seen goats with fantastic pedigrees, but not the most desirable conformation, milk production, etc. For that reason, it is a great idea to at least ask for pictures of a goats', sire, dam, dam's udder, and sire's dam's udder to get a good idea of the good and bad traits that are in a goats' lines/ancestors. 🙂😉


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> Just far enough that they can't breed through.
> 
> My vote is get him. Especially if you have the potential to get him a buddy in as soon as March. That's not that long to wait. And a seven month old and a three month old probably wouldn't be_ that _huge of a size difference. Not like integrating an adult with a kid. You'll definitely want a safe spot for a little guy to get away, but overall I think it's completely doable.
> 
> I've been wondering when you were going to add a buck. I'm glad to hear it could be soon! Very exciting!


Hahah, I guess that is a good rule on the fences. For some reason I was thinking for quarantine, they had to be a certain distance to avoid nose contact and things like sneezing on each other.

The bucklings will just be born in March (but I have a lot of pairings I like), so they’d be 7 months apart. So he’d be 10 months old when I likely got them. But who knows, maybe I’ll find another buck that’s an adult or yearling. I’m sure if I keep my eye out for one, I could find him a buddy within a few months. 

I didn’t think finding bucks would be more overwhelming than finding my girls, but it somehow is. I feel like I don’t know what I’m doing all over again. And I’m right. 🤣 Thank goodness I have TGS.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

FizzyGoats said:


> For some reason I was thinking for quarantine, they had to be a certain distance to avoid nose contact and things like sneezing on each other.


Oh no, you are right, that is a thing. I totally wasn't thinking about that. 

It absolutely can be overwelming trying to juggle all these "if I do this, then..." type of thoughts. This is the best place to work those out!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> How exciting that you'll be adding bucks to your herd soon!!
> 
> This past fall, I introduced my eight week old Tater to 7-8 month old Oreo. It went pretty well! Oreo was really happy to have a buddy! Oreo was pretty excited for the first few hours and was doing a lot of humping (no butting) on Tater. I also noticed that Oreo would get more excited when I was by them so I tried to stay away from them unless necessary for the first few days. When I would sneak over to check on the boys, Oreo would be very calm and nice to Tater until I got too close, that's when he would start mounting Tater again.
> 
> If you really like the buckling, then I too would go for him!! Just one thing I thought I'd bring up, great pedigrees are definitely good to have, but sometimes goats don't "read" (follow) their pedigrees. I've seen goats with fantastic pedigrees, but not the most desirable conformation, milk production, etc. For that reason, it is a great idea to at least ask for pictures of a goats', sire, dam, dam's udder, and sire's dam's udder to get a good idea of the good and bad traits that are in a goats' lines/ancestors.


Well this makes me feel a little better about maybe adding a younger one later. And you’re absolutely right about the pedigree. It was actually all those pictures that made me fall for this guy. He looks like a cute 6 month old with potential, but the photos of a few generations back on both sides made me practically drool.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> Oh no, you are right, that is a thing. I totally wasn't thinking about that.
> 
> It absolutely can be overwelming trying to juggle all these "if I do this, then..." type of thoughts. This is the best place to work those out!


Oh my gosh. Yes. I’m juggling those thoughts and it’s driving me crazy. Coming here to help me sort it out is doing wonders for my sanity.


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

I’ve had to keep my buck Murphy alone for a bit and he’s done okay. His first year here he wore an apron and was allowed to be out with all the girls. Make sure it’s a big enough apron though! At one point, the small apron still fit him (as in, the straps fit and I could buckle it) but he had grown a lot and was so much bigger compared to the actual apron piece that he definitely would have been able to breed around it if my does had been in heat. I ordered the next size immediately when I realized that and no unplanned breedings happened!

After his first kids were born and had been in the safe nursery yard with their mamas for maybe a month or so, mamas and kids got let out into the pasture and Murph was so sweet with the kids and would play with them so gently.

Once his daughters were approaching flirting age though, poor Murphy had to go in the nursery yard by himself for a while (it’s the only separate goat-safe area I have at the moment). The apron had worked for me just fine, but one of my horned does did manage to get it off of him once so I wasn’t about to leave that as the only means of preventing him from breeding a four month old.

I think as long as it’s not a huge deal if someone gets bred sooner than you want, aprons are a great way to go. For me they’ve been pretty reliable. But in any situation where it would be a disaster if breeding took place, I’d recommend at least two lines of defense. In my situation, that’s a shared fenceline plus the apron. I don’t have the ability to set up a yard completely apart from the main pasture right now, so my nursery/buck yard is in a corner of the pasture, tucked up against my backyard, and two sides of it are shared fenceline with the pasture. They can touch noses and probably if determined enough, they could breed through the fence, which is why I keep the apron on him also.

After I decided to breed my ornery doe Hasi, I left her in the nursery yard to keep Murphy company. She was kind of rough with the young girls anyway so it worked out nicely. She and Murph could rough house and the mamas and their kids could have some peace. lol

Once I get his CL test results back, if it’s negative, I plan to let Murphy run with the herd again. It wouldn’t be ideal if he bred one of his daughters we kept, but at least they are old enough to safely carry kids now, and with the apron on him there’s a pretty low risk anyway.

Even when he had to be alone though, he didn’t seem too upset. Maybe because he shared a fenceline with the herd and they visited often and spent a lot of time near him.

So I’d say buy that boy if you really like him, and just do your best to keep him at least near other goats, and with them when he can be, and I think he’ll be fairly content. 😊


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

When I downsized to one buck I let him have one of the LGD and they buddied up. When I met the girls out they can talk through fence but not "connect". Now it's just him alone after that old LGD passed away and he is fine and very happy with his living arrangements. 

So I think option 2 would be fine.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you both. That is great information and so incredibly helpful!

I’m so glad I can come here and work this all out. I honestly don’t know what I would do without all of you helpful people. 

I’m looking into a buddy for the guy I really want. He’s another buckling just two months younger and another decent deal. I’m waiting on a few pics on the buckling I really want. I focused so much on his sire/dam, and their sire and dam and so, that I didn’t ask for many pictures of him. Oops. I also am waiting on a few pics and extra info on the other buckling I might be interested in who is close to the same age. 

I’ll let you all know how this shakes out. I better at least have one buck out of all this. Lol.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> Well this makes me feel a little better about maybe adding a younger one later. And you’re absolutely right about the pedigree. It was actually all those pictures that made me fall for this guy. He looks like a cute 6 month old with potential, but the photos of a few generations back on both sides made me practically drool.


Drooling is definitely a good sign when looking at goats. 🤭 

I must say, I am very excited to see the boys you end up choosing for your herd! Which ever way you decide to go, I'm sure you'll eventually end up with two, handsome stud muffins. 🥰


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Here’s a few of the buck I really want. Well not the buck, but d/s pics. I’m definitely not able to start with a top of the line buck, but I think he has good genes that will compliment my girls anyway. I know it’s not nearly as impressive as some of the goats here.
Sire:









Dam:









Sire’s dam:









This is the only picture I have of the 6 month old buck so far. I’ll be getting more Friday.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I’m not an expert with good bloodlines and genes but they all look nice to me! The buckling sure is cute! I’m assuming that is him when he was younger.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

He's so striking!! I think he'd be a perfect addition to your herd! All those LA scores on his sire's side are _excellent_!! 🤩 Although the picture of him isn't the best for judging conformation, I think he looks very well-built!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I have another question. I can get the guy above a buddy pretty cheap who is registrable but I’m not sure on them. I feel like it’d be a gamble on if they’ll turn out well or not but maybe, for a couple hundred bucks I might get a breeding buck out of it. If not, I’d have to wether him. I’d love some advice.

Would you chance a couple hundred for either one of these little guys (almost 4 months old) for a buddy who might grow into a breeding buck? If so, which do you like? I’d love thoughts and opinions on this. 


















Their dam
















(Nothing great and seems a little narrow but nothing terrible I’m seeing either)




Their sire









Their sire’s dam


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

FizzyGoats said:


> I have another question. I can get the guy above a buddy pretty cheap who is registrable but I’m not sure on them. I feel like it’d be a gamble on if they’ll turn out well or not but maybe, for a couple hundred bucks I might get a breeding buck out of it. If not, I’d have to wether him. I’d love some advice.
> 
> Would you chance a couple hundred for either one of these little guys (almost 4 months old) for a buddy who might grow into a breeding buck? If so, which do you like? I’d love thoughts and opinions on this.
> View attachment 222337
> ...


I personally like the little buckskin boy. Compared to my goats who have very steep rumps, these all look amazing!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

I do not like the conformation of the first boy at all, posty rear legs, front legs toe out (a lot), very steep rump, weak pasterns etc. The second buckling looks to be a little better put together than his brother, but with them being full brothers, I don't know if I'd even buy him. If your goal is to have two quality breeding bucks, then I think you'd be better off passing on these two. 🙂


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

☝I agree.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you! Yeah, I was in a hurry to find a buddy for the guy I really want and these guys were cheap. For a reason, I guess.

I was pretty much looking at the buckskin but I don’t like his pasterns (more obvious in another photo). But I didn’t trust myself because I honestly know just enough to be dangerous when it come to conformation. Lol. 

Again, so glad I can come here.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

I am $ and space limited, I would just get the one buck. I wouldn't spend a lot on a prospective wether. Ride down this way, I'll hand one of my bucklings over!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

alwaystj9 said:


> I am $ and space limited, I would just get the one buck. I wouldn't spend a lot on a prospective wether. Ride down this way, I'll hand one of my bucklings over!


Hahaha. I’d love that!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

I love that boy (the first one, that is)!! His parents look great too. I’d definitely go for him!

I also think it’s probably best to pass on the others. I don’t think they’re terrible or anything - the first boy is just so much better.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Your first guy yes! But the possible companion I would have to agree with the others unless you had plan just to get one to wether for a friend.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I do love that first guy. He’s the buck I want and have been talking about from the beginning. The other ones were cheap and tempting to get one for a buddy. I really don’t want the buck to be lonely. But I think I’ll wait and see how it goes and try to get another quality buck so I’m not feeding anymore free loaders. Lol.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I’m getting nervous. I haven’t heard from the breeder of that first buck in a few days. Fingers crossed she’s just busy. 

We’re building the shelter now. Then are driving 12 hours to my daughter’s house this weekend and then 12 hours back on Wednesday because she needs some extra hands. So I hope we’re not rushing to build this little barn for the buck for nothing. I have a gazillion other things I could be doing (and need to do) and this could wait but if it does work out that we can get him when we get back, I want to be ready.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

I have my fingers crossed for you that everything will work out as you hope! 🤞

When ever you have the time, I'd love to hear more about your buck shelter. I'll be needing one myself this spring and need some inspiration! Thanks! 🙂


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Fingers crossed. Keep us posted!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Phew, she was just busy! She’s been really quick to respond so I got nervous when I didn’t hear anything. Nothing is final until I get more pictures tomorrow evening but I’m 99.99999% sure I am going to get him. We’re already discussing pick up dates.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> When ever you have the time, I'd love to hear more about your buck shelter. I'll be needing one myself this spring and need some inspiration! Thanks!


Right now I’m building a little addition to the barn. Nothing special. Still costs an arm and leg because lumber is ridiculous. But I do plan on making a separate shelter in a different area once he has a buddy. 

And I’d love to figure how to let my LGD go from pasture to pasture but not my goats. So far, everyone says the jump gates don’t work with NDs, so I’m sort of stumped.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Zig-zag people gates don't work with NDs either.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

What about a crawl through spot? Never had ND and only large breeds so no idea.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

FizzyGoats said:


> Phew, she was just busy! She’s been really quick to respond so I got nervous when I didn’t hear anything. Nothing is final until I get more pictures tomorrow evening but I’m 99.99999% sure I am going to get him. We’re already discussing pick up dates.


So exciting!!!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ask for a video too. Pictures can be manipulated to a degree, so I always send pictures and a video and also always ask for videos.
I think you are also making the right call to wait on the buck. No being alone is not ideal but this can be a pretty expensive journey we are on so might as well make sure you get what you want, or worse case a cheap little weather you could resell and not be out more then feed and get what you really want. 
But I hope it all works out great for you! I am no help with Nigerians because I think they are all cute and if you were to ask me I would be like, get them all!!! lol


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

They make doggie doors where only the dog can go through by wearing a special collar.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

DDFN said:


> What about a crawl through spot? Never had ND and only large breeds so no idea.











Yearling ND that would jump up and wiggle through the top holes in a hog panel.
(What a nice fishtail she has, too!
That's why she kept getting out, she was looking for copper!)


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I am not sure a crawl gate would work. My girls aren’t fence testers but they’ve crawled through a tiny, low door to get to the chicken coop. This is the problem with having a massive dog and small, agile goats. 

I just asked the breeder if she could add a video. Thanks for the tip @Jessica84, I wouldn’t have thought of it. She works 12 hour shifts and it’s dark when she gets home, so this is the first time since we’ve been in contact, that she’ll be home in time to get some extra photos (and hopefully a video) for me. 

@alwaystj9 I love the naughty sticks on the goat. Such a funny pic!

I figure if I can’t find another buck I want once kidding season is in full swing, I’ll wait until the end of breeding season. It seems like you can get a good deal on a buck someone has worked out of a job (kept/keeping too many of his babies) and doesn’t want to pay to feed all winter.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I did get that first buck. We’ll be picking him up Monday night. I left on an impromptu trip, 12 hour drive each way, to help my daughter and her little family out of a stressful situation and now I’m stressing. Lol. I have a lot to do still to get ready. 

@Jessica84 thank you for the tip about asking for a video. I thought he toed out in a pic I got but the video showed it was just an awkward stance for the pic. Plus, I got to see his very sweet personality. I’m excited but soooooo far behind on everything. For now, it’ll just be him. But we plan on adding another some time soon.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

That's exciting news! I hope the stress doesn't overshadow it too much.


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

How exciting! I hope that everything falls into place for you so the stress can subside.


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## BarnOwl (Sep 6, 2020)

Congratulations on your new buck! I don't know how I missed seeing this thread before. I can't wait to see pictures when you get him home. He looks so handsome. I hope the other situation becomes less stressful soon. 

We just got two bottle baby bucklings for Christmas. They are sweet, and so much fun. I will definitely have mixed feelings when they are big and stinky lol. The sire of one of mine is Little Tots Estate Agave.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

YAY, how awesome.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> That's exciting news! I hope the stress doesn't overshadow it too much.


I’m still super excited. You know how it goes, the stressful times around the farm/ranch are often the ones with the most excitement mixed in. 



Rancho Draco said:


> How exciting! I hope that everything falls into place for you so the stress can subside.


 Me too. Lol. Do you ever get so far behind that the stress sort of eases and you’re just hoping for the best? That’s sort of where I am. 



BarnOwl said:


> Congratulations on your new buck! I don't know how I missed seeing this thread before. I can't wait to see pictures when you get him home. He looks so handsome. I hope the other situation becomes less stressful soon.
> 
> We just got two bottle baby bucklings for Christmas. They are sweet, and so much fun. I will definitely have mixed feelings when they are big and stinky lol. The sire of one of mine is Little Tots Estate Agave.


Neat! We have some crossover there. I’m not relishing the thought of buck smell being in my car but I might as well get used to it. Lol. 



toth boer goats said:


> YAY, how awesome.


Thanks!


I feel bad for the little guy. It’s supposed to be raining and storming when we pick him up and then continue that weather for almost a week afterward. He’s not going to have a great introduction to his new home but it is pretty par for the course here. Maybe that’ll make it easier to get to know him and spend some quality time with the little dude.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I am glad your feeling of stress is easing, even if simply out of overload. All will fall into place at the perfect time.
That is good thinking, that the bad weather will help you get to know him.
I feel that way with Caramel. While she has tobe on her own, we have lots of training opportunities, that would be so much harder with the others around.


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> Do you ever get so far behind that the stress sort of eases and you’re just hoping for the best?


More often than I would like to admit.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MadHouse said:


> I am glad your feeling of stress is easing, even if simply out of overload. All will fall into place at the perfect time.
> That is good thinking, that the bad weather will help you get to know him.
> I feel that way with Caramel. While she has tobe on her own, we have lots of training opportunities, that would be so much harder with the others around.


Seeing how you’re doing with Caramel has actually been an inspiration for me. And you handle it all so well and don’t freak out like I tend to do. 



Rancho Draco said:


> More often than I would like to admit.


 At this pace, if no new “to-do’s” are introduced, I should be caught up in a decade. Lol. 



So I love my husband. Weird sentence, I know, but I had to preface what I’m about to say with it. We had a huge list of things needing to get done so we’re ready for this little buck and he invited two different sets of friends over (separate times), visits I didn’t know about. We never have people over. Maybe once every 6 months. And today, today he decides people should come over for visits. I could have throttled him. I was out cleaning the turkey coop when the first showed up and trying to build a stall with the second set’s arrival. I looked like death warmed over. I didn’t care. I told my husband it’s going to be a work from sun up until sundown (and maybe more) kind of day tomorrow. 

On a good note, I did get all the goats’ hooves trimmed and trimmed all the dogs’ nails. Only four days late on that task. 


Another buck related question for you smart people. 
We’re putting a couple strands of electric rope type fence up inside the fence we’re putting up for the buck. If it delivers a good jolt, will that likely be enough to deter fence breeding?


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Is there a way to look at a baby less than a day old and evaluate? I have to make a quick decision on this guy. He has all the flash I need to introduce to sell babies around here (though it’s not my personal priority, I need to sell the kids when they come though). And while I want that, I don’t want to sacrifice quality. 

This is a newer herd and this will be their first year on milk test and appraisals. So he doesn’t have the flashy pedigree like the guy I got, but he does have moon spots and blue eyes. My girls are all nicely built and bred plain janes. So I’m trying for some flash in the bucks. 

Here’s pics I have of him, again less than 24 hrs old. Here’s his dam too. She doesn’t have any good udder pics. I threw in a few where you could see her udder but she’s nursing triplets and so no full udder pic.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Here’s that guy’s sire and sire’s dam. And the last one is the only one I have of the back of the udder on the dam of the buckling and it was before she kidded and not set up or anything. So not a great pic. But it’s what I have. I don’t know enough, so I’d love others thoughts. I need to let her know soon if I’m passing or taking him. And I can’t look at a baby and tell squat.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@FizzyGoats Encountered a situation where adding a weanling to an existing herd was under consideration. I know this is not answering your question about confirmation, though the dynamics could possibly be problematic with a weanling.
Deliberating adding to the herd | The Goat Spot Forum


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Thank you for that. I’m actually trying to find one so the new buck (now 7 months old) won’t feel lonely. There just isn’t one available around his age anywhere near me. I could add an adult, but I’m not sure how he would be with the young buck I just got, who seems very sweet and docile. Even this one wouldn’t be coming here until May. I feel bad for my new guy even though he seems to be adjusting well. My only options are way younger or way older so far.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

@Jubillee @Dandy Hill Farm


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

He's adorable!! Unfortunately, that's really all you can tell about a newborn.

I really love his sire's dam!! His sire and dam aren't that bad. In their defense, the pictures of them aren't the best so it's harder to see their conformation. Is his dam an FF? It's also hard to go off of pre-freshening udders as they usually change so much. I think it's promising that the farm will be doing milk testing and LA this year. If you really like him, then I think you should go for it! If all goes well, your girls should have lots of breeding years ahead of them so if this buckling doesn't turn out how you hoped, then you could always buy a new guy. Although, selling is usually easier said then done. 🙃


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

No advice, but I will say I don't think your girls are "plain jane". 😉


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

It's hard to tell anything from a day old. Sometimes you do have some that just come out with that presence. I had one like that. But usually, they need time to unfold and fill their skin. For bucks usually, you just look at parents and data. His sire's dam is nice, though her attachments could be much deeper, they're a bit shallow. The dam, it's hard to tell from that pic, unfortunately. If your other buck is better, you could use this guy a bit then use your buck on his daughters to improve where he is lacking. In the meantime, you can search for what you really want then move him on once you find it.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

MellonFriend said:


> No advice, but I will say I don't think your girls are "plain jane". 😉


I totally agree with that!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

[mention]Dandy Hill Farm [/mention] and [mention]Jubillee [/mention] Thank you for the input. I didn’t know if there was some magic trick to evaluating a newborn. Lol. 

I just can’t decide. I love the flash but feel so so on the parents. Nothing horrible. Nothing great. Some other lineage is decent. The dam is a 2F I believe. I know she’s not a FF. It is a clean tested herd. With being so new and frankly naive, I may have to save up and spend bigger bucks for a bigger buck. Lol. I really can’t decide. 





MellonFriend said:


> No advice, but I will say I don't think your girls are "plain jane".





MadHouse said:


> I totally agree with that!


Ah, thank you both! They are from good, solid milking lines, just not a lot of flash.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I know exactly the position you're in right now. Just a thought, would a wether about the same size or age be a consideration for you until another buck comes along? Possibly the farm you bought Champ from, or the farm that has this new little boy, might have one that would be of the same age and/or size as Champ. A wether could easily spend time with either the doe herd or the buck herd, could help detect when a doe comes into season whether she showed obvious signs or not without fear of an accidental breeding, hang out with the weanlings in their enclosure when separation time came, and if need be, a source for human and/or dog food.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Is the buckling a reasonable price? how is another buckling going to change next year's breeding plans?
How much time & $ will you be out if he doesn't work out?
If you are wanting to add flash, that means you probably want to add the produced doelings to your herd.
What do you think you would pick if you had to keep a doeling by him or by your current buck?


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> I know exactly the position you're in right now. Just a thought, would a wether about the same size or age be a consideration for you until another buck comes along? Possibly the farm you bought Champ from, or the farm that has this new little boy, might have one that would be of the same age and/or size as Champ. A wether could easily spend time with either the doe herd or the buck herd, could help detect when a doe comes into season whether she showed obvious signs or not without fear of an accidental breeding, hang out with the weanlings in their enclosure when separation time came, and if need be, a source for human and/or dog food.


 At first, I didn’t want to have to feed a wether. Then, after finding there were no bucks his age around, I decided it wouldn’t be so bad. I reached out to his farm and four others with no luck. I’m still keeping my eyes open for one from a tested herd. 



alwaystj9 said:


> Is the buckling a reasonable price? how is another buckling going to change next year's breeding plans?
> How much time & $ will you be out if he doesn't work out?
> If you are wanting to add flash, that means you probably want to add the produced doelings to your herd.
> What do you think you would pick if you had to keep a doeling by him or by your current buck?


If I had him, I would have to see how he matured. If I liked him, I’d breed him to one doe and the buck I have now to the other two. The price is reasonable but it is a 7 hour round trip. I don’t want to keep any kids from their first freshening. All my does will be FF. I just want to stack the deck that I’ll get some flash to sell (that’s what sells quickly around here) in babies and hope the people like me, that don’t care about coat or eye color, buy the others. 

I’d be happy to start with just the buck I have. I lucked into him because she’d just decided she had retained too many. I really don’t need another buck since I don’t plan on retaining kids. I just want to give him some full time company and not just spurts of time when the girls aren’t in heat and he’s wearing his apron. 

I know some have kept a single buck just fine like that, and if I knew he’d be happy with it (but he refuses to tell me), I’d just keep him until my does get bred this fall and kid and then keep one of his son’s as a wether. He doesn’t seem miserable but I honestly don’t know what an unhappy goat looks like.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Flash does sell, you are right! 
More people are concerned with eye color than udder...


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Yep. And I know I need the flash but I just don’t think I can do it without conformation and udder and milking lines. Agh, what to do. I, at this point, just wish I could find a wether from a healthy herd his age who would be a good pal. I reached out to one more farm asking about a wether and they didn’t have one either. Is there some shortage I don’t know about? Lol.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Too bad your not in Texas, I have a sweet 9 month old wether that I’d rather go to a good home ...
I hope you find one for your boy they do better with a buddy but are ok without.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

GoofyGoat said:


> Too bad your not in Texas, I have a sweet 9 month old wether that I’d rather go to a good home ...
> I hope you find one for your boy they do better with a buddy but are ok without.


You sure you don’t want to take a trip to soggy TN? Lol.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I can’t believe you are not finding a wether! 
Have you considered taking the flashy boy as a bottle baby (if they would do this)? Then you could introduce him him to Champ sooner.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I should drive down to Tennesee and bring you my Cocopuff! 😛


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

FizzyGoats said:


> You sure you don’t want to take a trip to soggy TN? Lol.


Love to, but can’t get away....you’re welcome to come here though ☺


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

MadHouse said:


> I should drive down to Tennesee and bring you my Cocopuff! 😛


Yes, you can go through Oklahoma and Texas and visit 😉😁😂


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MadHouse said:


> I should drive down to Tennesee and bring you my Cocopuff!


 Yes! Come on down. 



GoofyGoat said:


> Love to, but can’t get away....you’re welcome to come here though


 But maybe if you leave, they’ll have the babies. Lol. Just kidding, obviously. I’m so excited to see your little ones. 



MadHouse said:


> I can’t believe you are not finding a wether!
> Have you considered taking the flashy boy as a bottle baby (if they would do this)? Then you could introduce him him to Champ sooner.


I just don’t know the age it would be safe to put the baby in with one that’s 7 months older. They’d be able to meet but it’d likely be a while before cohabitation. I think I’ve gotten myself in to a tight spot. I thought if I couldn’t find a buck close to the same age, a wether would be easy to find. I thought wrong.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

FizzyGoats said:


> I just don’t know the age it would be safe to put the baby in with one that’s 7 months older. They’d be able to meet but it’d likely be a while before cohabitation. I think I’ve gotten myself in to a tight spot. I thought if I couldn’t find a buck close to the same age, a wether would be easy to find. I thought wrong.


Right.
Didn’t think that through.
Mhm. 😐


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Yes, you can go through Oklahoma and Texas and visit 😉😁😂


I would love to do that! With Coco on the passenger seat.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

In my opinion, getting another buck would be better than a wether. From my experience, wethers tend to get bullied by the buck. That being said, our last buck was rather aggressive (which is why we had to sell him) and if your is very sweet, he may get along just fine with a wether.

I have seen a lot of people around here leave the buck alone or just leave them with the does all the time, so I really appreciate that you care to get him a good friend!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

FizzyGoats said:


> Yep. And I know I need the flash but I just don’t think I can do it without conformation and udder and milking lines. Agh, what to do. I, at this point, just wish I could find a wether from a healthy herd his age who would be a good pal. I reached out to one more farm asking about a wether and they didn’t have one either. Is there some shortage I don’t know about? Lol.


Some of the problem finding another male his age could be Champ being a summer baby. Champ would have been conceived about this time of year, when most herds are in kidding season. I wonder, if possibly, the doe was bred back very soon after delivery. Then again, ND are considered year round breeders, so that may not even be the case. He very well could have been conceived in February without a back to back breeding. Maybe an upcoming yearling male would be easier to locate.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Yeah, I’m sort of hoping for anything around a year old to about 4 months old. But he was born at an unusual time, so it’s difficult to find a buddy for him. He seems very docile and incredibly sweet and active. I know that attitude can change. I’m hoping he stays a nice fella though.  I’m giving up my frantic search for another buck. I want to wait to spend the time and money on one who can improve the lines and send correct and productive offspring off to other farms in the future. And to really know what my girls’ weaknesses are, I’m going to have to get through their FF. And I’ve got a solid guy to start with. 

If a buck comes along that I can’t pass up, I’ll get him. In the meantime, I’m am going to keep looking for a wether from a healthy herd who is a small breed or mini of some sort. Also, I need no horns because of my cattle panel cross fencing. If it is a particularly well dispositioned wether, the age doesn’t matter a ton to me then. I definitely want him to have a buddy.

If any of you have tips on finding what I’m looking for, I’ll be glad to hear them.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Why didn’t anyone tell me bucks were so sweet and hilarious? I’ve enjoyed adding our little guy to the herd. I’m really grateful for the advice and help I’ve received here. 

It’s been going great with Champ. He’s with the does from about 7 a.m. to 8 p.m with an apron on. His living quarters are built in and by the barn. I think he is really happy as a lone buck. However, it’s my husband and son who insist Champ needs another buck to be with at night. I actually disagree but I’ve bought four goats, so they are entitled to buy one, I suppose. 

So, we’ll be getting this guy next month. 
View attachment 226672


(edited to add: couldn’t get pic to load in this post, it’s in the next one) 

He is ADGA registered and we named him Briar. He has blue eyes, one moon spot for sure and possibly for a few more. Not sure yet. His dam earned her milk star on her first freshening and appraised as +VVV87 as a two year old, which I thought was pretty good. His lines are more from the show side than I’m used to, but I really like his dam’s long, level body. The seller sent me a video and there’s no pinching down with this doe. That’s just how she’s built and she moves nicely. He was born early March. He comes from a tested herd and I won’t be able to quarantine him as our buck already lives in our only other goat area. It worries me, more so for parasites and respiratory illness. I guess I’ll be upping herbs, essential oils and vitamins when he gets here. I don’t know what else to do. 

If you want to take a look at the dam  https://hilltopblessings.weebly.com/blessingsht-rose-gold-1m.html and sire  https://hilltopblessings.weebly.com/lil-mtn-fl-sugar-rush.html and let me know what you think, I’d love to hear what those who know more have to say.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Okay, maybe if I just post the pic it’ll work.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

He sure is a handsome fellow. 💜 🥰 
It’ll be exciting when he comes to join your wonderful herd.
HIS Mom’s udder looks fantastic.


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

Absolutely gorgeous!


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

I’m glad Champ is getting along well! They definitely are funny! 

Briar’s dam and sire are STUNNING! He looks like a great addition!


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

Oh. My. Goodness. To say I'd love to have him as my herdsire, is a complete understatement. 😮🤩 Really, the only "complaint" I have about the goats on both sides of him (and mind you I'm being nit picky here), is I'd like to see their udders higher. But my goodness, I just love him! Congrats! If he goes missing, you'll know where I've been. 😏😋


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Well thanks goat peoples.  That makes me feel better about adding him. 



Dandy Hill Farm said:


> If he goes missing, you'll know where I've been.


Ok but if you come all this way to kidnap him, at least buy me lunch first. Lol.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Um, yes please! He and his pedigree look fantastic! I think you should be very happy with him! And by the way I LOVE his name. 😍


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Congratulations FizzyGoats, I'm so excited for you over this new addition. He is a nice looking buckling, and now you have a way to expand your gene pool in case there were doelings sired by Champ you would like to retain.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Aug 5, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> Ok but if you come all this way to kidnap him, at least buy me lunch first. Lol.


Deal! Wow, this is going to be way easier than I thought! 🤣😜


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Deal! Wow, this is going to be way easier than I thought! 🤣😜


Easiest goat napping ever!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> Um, yes please! He and his pedigree look fantastic! I think you should be very happy with him! And by the way I LOVE his name.


Aw, thanks. I’m not great with reading the pedigrees yet but I’ve gotten a crash course this last year and from what I could tell, his was decent. They let us name him. His dam has rose in the name and they like to name after the dam, so we chose Briar and they loved it. Well his full name that we chose (after the herd name) is BlueMoon Briar. 



NigerianNewbie said:


> Congratulations FizzyGoats, I'm so excited for you over this new addition. He is a nice looking buckling, and now you have a way to expand your gene pool in case there were doelings sired by Champ you would like to retain.


Thanks. That was my reasoning. My son and husband claimed Champ needed a cuddle buddy at night. I guess we all have our reasons. 


Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Deal! Wow, this is going to be way easier than I thought!


 Well I figure stealth is already out of the question for you because I live in the middle of nowhere and you’ll get lost without directions from me anyway.  Might as well get a meal out of it.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

You know what else is a bonus to having an unrelated buck, when you go to sell the kids your buyers will have more options for genetic diversity too. That is if you plan on breeding some of your girls to Briar and some to Champ.

(By the way, I don't know anything about Nigerian pedigree, I just meant that his sire and dam look awesome. I should have phrased that differently. 😅 Sorry about that.)


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

He is adorable and all those goats behind him are STUNNING! Congrats on the newest addition!


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## BarnOwl (Sep 6, 2020)

Congratulations! He is stunning!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute.


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