# Starting up a Boer business..



## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm going to say thank you in advance if you make it all the way through this, it's very long.

Alright so here's the idea... My family wants to start raising meat goats for a small profit, and I am in charge of figuring out just how to do that.. I have a tentative plan laid out and I just wanted to present it to you guys to see what you would change/add. Feel free to be harsh about how I've laid my idea out, I can take it.

The plan so far;
We would start out with two registered Boer doelings. Any thoughts on how many to start out with? My first thought was two, but I'm open to ideas. They would be bred this winter and would hopefully kid near the end of March, early April. The ones we have our eyes on right now are out of quads, I'm not sure if that makes a difference in how many they will kid though. We would wether the bucklings and raise them to take to market in October. We might retain a doeling or two if they really turn out great, otherwise they would go to market too. Eventually we would like to sell breeding does & bucks but we want to make sure our herd is "top of the line" before we do.

Now I have a schedule and cost plan laid out; If you want to take a look at it that would be wonderful! We currently live on a 10 acre ranch and need to fence in a portion of the 3 rail fencing. We have a 5 stall barn which would be converted into a kidding area when the time comes. We have water that is goat accessible and everything else is goat proof. I owned goats a few years ago, but nothing like my family is planning now. Hay is pretty cheap around here, and the meat goat industry is booming.

*Goat Startup Costs*

$500.............................Hay
$100.............................Fencing
$50...............................Goat Formula
$35...............................Vaccinations
$20...............................Deworming
$25...............................Grain
???................................Shelter
$20...............................Goat hoof trimmers
$20...............................Minerals

$770.............................Total

*Yearly Costs*

$500..............................Hay
$50................................Goat Formula
$35................................Vaccinations
$20................................Deworming
$50................................Grain
$40................................Minerals
???.................................Breeding

*Cost Per Month - Spring
February - April*
$45...............................Hay
$25...............................Formula
$15...............................Vaccinations
$10...............................Deworming
$10...............................Minerals

*Cost Per Month - Summer
May - July*
$35...............................Hay
$25...............................Formula
$15...............................Vaccinations
$10...............................Deworming
$10...............................Minerals

*Cost Per Month - Fall
August - October*
$55...............................Hay
$10...............................Minerals

*Cost Per Month - Winter
November - January*
$70...............................Hay
$35...............................Grain
$10...............................Minerals
$10...............................Deworming
???................................Breeding

*Monthly Schedule*

*January*
Grain Pregnant Does- 2 cups 2x a day
Prepare Kidding Kit
Health Check 
Hoof Trim
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day

*February*
Grain Pregnant Does- 2 cups 2x a day
Vaccinate Pregnant Does
Deworm Pregnant Does
Selenium Gel
Check Kidding Kit
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day

*March*
Grain Pregnant Does- 2 cups 2x a day
Prepare kidding stalls
Take Kidding Kit out
Set up heat lamps
Set up baby monitor
Move does into kidding stalls
Prepare for bottle babies
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day

*April*
Bottle Feed Kids as Needed
Vaccinate Kids
Deworm Kids
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day

*May*
Bottle Feed Kids as Needed
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*June*
Bottle Feed Kids as Needed
Wean kids by 2nd week of the month
Sell Breeding Bucks when weaned
Sell Breeding Does when weaned
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*July*
Check weight of market wethers
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*August* 
Deworm Herd
Check weight of market wethers 
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*September*
Check weight of Market Wethers
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*October*
Take wethers to Market
Worm Does
1/2 Bale of Hay a Day

*November*
Breed Does
Start Graining Does - 1/2 cup 1x a day
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day

*December*
Grain Does - 1/2 cup 2x a day
1/2 Bale of Hay 2x a Day
__________________________________________

Please critique my "plan", as I feel like I'm forgetting a ton of stuff. I also have a few questions..

1.) How many goats would be most profitable? Ex. 2 does and their kids, 6 does and their kids...

2.) Is this even a feasible idea, if so what do I need to change?

3.) So I know about CAE, CL & Johnes, but is at as necessary to test for in meat goats? CL is horrible, so I will be testing for that either way, but what about the other two?

If you made it all the way through this, I applaud you! Thank you guys so much, I really appreciate it.


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## DappledBoers (Feb 10, 2013)

This is very interesting. I raise boers but not for meat. More for breeding. So I can't really help you to much but from what I've learned. If you want to make a profit you need more than 2 goats. You mentioned 6 and that seems to be a better plan. If you think about it on average a doe has twins (correct me if I'm wrong) and i don't know what meat goats go for? 150-250? So if you had two does that had twins you would have four kids to sell for about 600-1000? But that's only if you decide to sell doe kids if they have them to. Again anyone correct me if I'm wrong. So if you think about it having more goats equals more kids and more to sell. Half a bale of hay a day seems like a lot if your only counting two does. Would they have pasture and browse to eat as well? Hope this helped a little!

Oh and your question on if it's a feasible plan.. I think it's a great start to a great plan. Sure some things can be changed a little but a lot of people jump in without a plan and research. Good job and good luck!


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Where are you?

Buy a microscope and slides to do fecals.... That will save you lots

You will need to get some basics for medical care which will definitely increase your costs.. eg. Vit B, C&D antitoxin LA200, Pen G, ........

What wormer are you thinking of using?

If your water source is a pond then you may have more parasite issues and the vet and wormer bills will be higher...

CL is pretty common in the meat market and not the end of the world. In the meat market it won't hurt your profit so if you see don't freak out 

Goats normally have twins but first timers usually have one so that will affect profit. Some don't take when you want them to which will change your plan.. 

Starting out with reg stock is a great idea ( I wish I had). But in the meat market they don't care about papers..

Some boers grow slower than others so when buying try to look at their older kids to see how they are filling out...

In Ky if you have 20 breeding does you qualify for several grants a year that brought several thousand into my farm 

Travel expense to purchase and sell adds up quick and deserves a line in your budget...

I use field fence on my farm so my fencing budget is Much more than yours..

I have a meat Boer/Kikko farm and we had a horrible season last year with selenium deficiency that caused many deaths and we still managed to make a profit but I had 30 some does kid.. If you only have 2 does you are not going to see a profit.. With 6 you will need to sell a few to breeders to see much of a profit but very doable if all goes well.. 

If you only have 2 then if one gets sick or Lord forbid dies you will be in trouble


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Make sure your kid formula is milk based or all your bottle babies will end up sick.. Really a gallon whole milk ( cow milk from store), one can evaporated milk, two cups buttermilk (not low fat) works the best for growth and weight.. Averages $1 a day for 60 days for a kid so more expensive but the weight and health of the kid makes up for it.

You also need to figure some vet expense because some meds are Rx only so you need a vet that will work with you


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Your plan sounds thought out but......
Not sure where you are located or what your costs are......but here a bale of hay is $5.75. 1/2 bale 2x day is avg 30 bales per month = approx $180.
Depending on how many animals you have, I also think your grain estimate is low.
$100 in fencing won't go far 
You need to add the cost of your animal purchase and buck fees if you plan to breed them.
Fecals should be done, rather than just worming on schedule.
Antibiotics, supplements, misc meds
Vet visits or emergencies
Remember that buying kids with set you back a year if your wanting to sell kids to help pay expenses


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Does should be fed grain the whole time they are nursing. You may need to feed them a bit past weaning to get them in condition.

Wormer is going to cost more than you think. Not sure what fencing you are using but don't go cheap on fencing. It will cost you more in replacing it.


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

I agree that your costs look low to me. Like some others said, I don't know where you are, but I'd take another look at your numbers. It looks like you're counting on getting hay for about $2 a bale, but what kind of hay is it? Also, you might be able to get it for that price now, but what if conditions are bad this summer and hay prices go up? Personally, I'd rather overestimate my costs than underestimate them. The same goes for your other costs. 

Personally, I don't raise meat goats, but I think the others have a very good point about making a profit on only 2 does. They might both throw quads as FFs, but they might just throw singles. Maybe they won't settle at all. You just never know, so I think that you should probably start with more if your goal is profitability. Of course, that will add to your start-up costs and feed costs, but I think it would pay off in the long run if you have the capital for it. 

I think you're heading in the right direction with your planning, but I'd revisit the numbers in terms of both goats and costs. Even if you're certain you won't spend more than $x for y, add a little padding to your plan anyway to take into account fluctuating prices. Also, definitely add a line for emergency needs such as meds and vets. Hopefully you won't need it, but it's better to be prepared.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

DappledBoers said:


> This is very interesting. I raise boers but not for meat. More for breeding. So I can't really help you to much but from what I've learned. If you want to make a profit you need more than 2 goats. You mentioned 6 and that seems to be a better plan. If you think about it on average a doe has twins (correct me if I'm wrong) and i don't know what meat goats go for? 150-250? So if you had two does that had twins you would have four kids to sell for about 600-1000? But that's only if you decide to sell doe kids if they have them to. Again anyone correct me if I'm wrong. So if you think about it having more goats equals more kids and more to sell. Half a bale of hay a day seems like a lot if your only counting two does. Would they have pasture and browse to eat as well? Hope this helped a little!
> 
> Oh and your question on if it's a feasible plan.. I think it's a great start to a great plan. Sure some things can be changed a little but a lot of people jump in without a plan and research. Good job and good luck!


You reminded me that I forgot to add that we would work up to a herd of about 40. (Of course that's an estimated amount but we'll see.) They would be out on a 10 acre pasture, along with some browse.



OGYC_Laura said:


> Where are you?
> 
> Buy a microscope and slides to do fecals.... That will save you lots
> 
> ...


We are located in Idaho. We actually do have a microscope, and probably slides too. I will be preparing an emergency medical kit, but I do have a large one for the horses with stuff that can be used on goats. (Cornstarch, Vetericyn, gauze, asprin, red cell. a whole bunch of essential oils, and vitamins.) I would be switching wormers every other time I worm. I find it helps prevent the parasites becoming immune to the wormer. The first I would be using is Safeguard. I need to do more research on what is best for pregnant does but I have some time.
Water source is a well and large stock tank that is short enough for them to reach in but high enough they can't poop in it. I will also need to look into if you can qualify for a grant here... The auction house is only about 5 miles from our home so travel expenses won't be a whole lot compared to other expenses, but I will definitely add it in. I do eventually want to sell breeding bucks/does or sell to 4H kids so I was thinking registered stock would be best. Our local farm store sells selenium gel so we can supplement the pregnant does with it and the kids if needed. We can also get BoSe from our vet if that's better. We're starting out smaller, but working our way up to a large herd. Maybe starting out with 4 - 6 does would be better?



OGYC_Laura said:


> Make sure your kid formula is milk based or all your bottle babies will end up sick.. Really a gallon whole milk ( cow milk from store), one can evaporated milk, two cups buttermilk (not low fat) works the best for growth and weight.. Averages $1 a day for 60 days for a kid so more expensive but the weight and health of the kid makes up for it.
> 
> You also need to figure some vet expense because some meds are Rx only so you need a vet that will work with you


I've been planning to make the formula like you said. I've used both and found the homemade one to work much better. I'm not planning on raising too many bottle kids, so hopefully formula won't be too expensive. I am planning on bottle raising the first few does we get.

Luckily our vet is a good friend and we get good prices for Rx medicines. So we're set there.



sassykat6181 said:


> Your plan sounds thought out but......
> Not sure where you are located or what your costs are......but here a bale of hay is $5.75. 1/2 bale 2x day is avg 30 bales per month = approx $180.
> Depending on how many animals you have, I also think your grain estimate is low.
> $100 in fencing won't go far
> ...


We buy our hay in bulk, so the prices are much lower. We feed alfalfa, and it is good quality. All the estimates I have are going off of 10 goats. Fencing here is about 43 cents per foot and I really only needs about 200 ft of fencing. 
I am looking around to see what buck fees are right now but haven't gotten replies yet. Emergencies do happen so I will definitely add that into the plan. All these estimates are for the first year, with aprox. 10 goats. I was doing the grain estimates for two does but looking at my plan now I may start out with 4-6 does, so the grain estimates are definitely low now. I will fix that.



ksalvagno said:


> Does should be fed grain the whole time they are nursing. You may need to feed them a bit past weaning to get them in condition.
> 
> Wormer is going to cost more than you think. Not sure what fencing you are using but don't go cheap on fencing. It will cost you more in replacing it.


I will total this into the plan again, wasn't sure if they were fed while nursing but it definitely makes sense. Goat wormer is so expensive! I was surprised when I looked at it in our farm store. We are planning on using field fencing and we really only have to fence about 200 feet. Fencing is about 43 cents per foot here.



ariella42 said:


> I agree that your costs look low to me. Like some others said, I don't know where you are, but I'd take another look at your numbers. It looks like you're counting on getting hay for about $2 a bale, but what kind of hay is it? Also, you might be able to get it for that price now, but what if conditions are bad this summer and hay prices go up? Personally, I'd rather overestimate my costs than underestimate them. The same goes for your other costs.
> 
> Personally, I don't raise meat goats, but I think the others have a very good point about making a profit on only 2 does. They might both throw quads as FFs, but they might just throw singles. Maybe they won't settle at all. You just never know, so I think that you should probably start with more if your goal is profitability. Of course, that will add to your start-up costs and feed costs, but I think it would pay off in the long run if you have the capital for it.
> 
> I think you're heading in the right direction with your planning, but I'd revisit the numbers in terms of both goats and costs. Even if you're certain you won't spend more than $x for y, add a little padding to your plan anyway to take into account fluctuating prices. Also, definitely add a line for emergency needs such as meds and vets. Hopefully you won't need it, but it's better to be prepared.


I am currently reworking the costs, and I will be adding a line for meds and vets. I forgot to add that we would be working our way up from a few breeding does to a larger herd. Hopefully producing 40 babies are so a year...Eventually. I agree that a little padding in the budget is best!

Will post the reworked budget plan once I finish! Thank you guys so much for all the help I really appreciate it!!


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

-Started this earlier today, didn't post till now (interruptions), see a lot of things were already covered.

Hello there! A couple things I would like to point out, not to discourage but just so you don't get blindsided. 

I agree, costs are quite low on a few things. With your fencing I see you metioned you have some 3 wire? Were you adding to this or are you putting up some woven wire/something similar in front of it? Or did you mean you have 3 wire but need to put up some fence in another section? 3 wire alone will probably not keep them in, "if it doesn't hold water, it wont hold a goat" is the most true thing I've ever heard with goats. Fencing is also not at all cheap. You could potentially lower the costs somewhat by having a strand or two of electric fencing in combination with your three wire. 

I was able to get my woven from a retired sheep farmer who just had it rolled up in his pasture for nothing. Hunt around for local deals is a great step to reducing costs. Was also able to get steel fence posts in a similar fashion, neighbor was going to replace his fence and if I tore it down I got to keep the materials.

You're pretty close on mineral pricing, here its around $11 a bag and I got through 2 a month with 17 does.

Wormer, depending on what you use, is quite a bit more. I just bought Ivermectin and it was about $55, but that will also treat my herd about twice.

As far as making a profit goes, I can't say with selling registered boers for breeding stock/show wethers/what not, but with my commercial herd I haven't made a profit yet. BUT I and potentially you, probably wont show a profit for the first couple years as you have to start from the ground up. This is my 3rd year and I've gone from 5 does, to 13 last year, to 17 this year, and hope to get to 25 for next year where I will probably have to stop due to space and to survive the chaos that comes with the aftermath of kidding season. (my herd averaged, the last two years, to 238.5% kids, so with 25 does that's about 55-59 kids....plus my 25 does, that's 80 goats to care for and in my case outsmart) Still haven't made a profit, though I would have this year (small) if I didn't lose the majority of my kids to worms (inexperience and vet misdiagnosis). 

I don't know what hay costs are, as I help my parents/neighbors with their haying, working cattle and calving. So I score free hay, will probably end up paying for it eventually though, when more established. But I would say I use 12 large round alfalfa/grass bales, and 2-1/2 square alfalfa bales everyday from march to may.

Something to also keep in mind that your starting stock, if registered boers, can be anywhere from $200-800 each.

With my herd, its mostly boer/Nubian cross, with some savanna/boer cross does also so I can't really relate to much with selling breeding stock/or show wethers (where, correct me if I'm wrong, is also large chunk of the profit). Ideally I would like to get my herd to be mostly 50%boer/50% Nubian and 75% boer/25% Nubian. But I'm also selling commercial meat kids where papers mean nothing. But like with cattle, color means a lot. (example, between two of the kids I had this year, the boer colored weather though about 15# smaller sold for more than a black and white colored wether, by about $50)

Do you have some kind of shelter for everyone, also depending on where you live, but like in my situation up here in the arctic of ND (anything can happen) I have to be able to bring everyone inside if I need to, for possibly extended periods. Though it would be necessary for almost anywhere I would think.

Any who, a lot of it depends on your situation, making connections with people (to score good deals!), your location, and what people/market in your area are looking for. What worked for me my not work for you. But when estimated, always estimate high. You don't want to get everything set up and get into this only to find out it will just turn into a money sink. 

Sorry if this is scatter brained, was getting interrupted constantly this morning.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Starting with only 2 or 3 is really a good plan. Obviously you won't be making a profit in the first few years but having a dead herd because you started too big will put you in the hole.

Rotating wormers doesn't work on goats. Just makes them resistant quicker. The absolute best and most cost effective would be to do your own fecals and then worm appropriately. Safeguard is pretty much only good for tapeworm and round worm.

I don't know what field fence is but make sure it is woven wire, not welded wire.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Gotta get back outside so didn't read thoroughly but I echo the estimate on fence is very low.
Never ever buy welded wire.
In 06 our start up was in the 5grand range. This included four bred does & mis equipment/supplies.
Grab a few mentors & find a good goat vet who knows what they are doing.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

RustyBucketBoers said:


> I'm going to say thank you in advance if you make it all the way through this, it's very long.
> 
> Alright so here's the idea... My family wants to start raising meat goats for a small profit, and I am in charge of figuring out just how to do that.. I have a tentative plan laid out and I just wanted to present it to you guys to see what you would change/add. Feel free to be harsh about how I've laid my idea out, I can take it.
> 
> ...


I would most definitely test for Johnes... Any type of ruminants can get Johnes. Johnes is a wasting disease, meaning that your goat(s) could be eating and everything seems normal, but they just start losing a ton of weight and look like they are "wasting" away. In my opinion Johnes is 10x worse than CL. I have personally dealt with both. If you don't test, Johnes can wipe out your whole herd without you even knowing it is happening. Testing can help you catch it before the goat starts shedding. If the goat is shedding it is contaminating your land and exposing your other goats to the organism. Do your research and buy from herds that test regularly.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Below I've posted a picture of our property and the revamped costs.. I'm pretty sure I'm still missing some things.
Starting in March we are building a shop to the left of the barn, and my dad is creating a shelter for our horses and a shelter for the future goats. The one for the goats is 50' x 50'. It is roofed with two sides and the hay will provide the third "side".

Red; Fenced in area where the goats will be kept. The longest side along the driveway is what needs to be fenced... I think we will just do the entire thing rather than the 200'. It will come out to about 1,200' if we fence it completely. 
Green; pasture we would like to eventually fence. 
Yellow; where most of the browse is. 
Blue; water trough
Purple; 50' x 50' shelter. Will be constructed starting in March.

With the revamped cost; If you guys have any advice on what I still need to change, I have it set up to where it's super easy to change! Excel is a lifesaver...



Lstein said:


> -Started this earlier today, didn't post till now (interruptions), see a lot of things were already covered.
> 
> Hello there! A couple things I would like to point out, not to discourage but just so you don't get blindsided.
> 
> ...


Wow this was super helpful! Thank you so much! I have changed the prices and they are posted below, I'd love to hear what you think now. I calculated out the prices rather than guessing, so they should be closer to what the actual prices would be. Also it's 3 rail fencing - no barbed wire, but there is a hotwire along the top to keep the horses in. We don't used barbed wire or t-posts because those are just an accident waiting to happen.



ksalvagno said:


> Starting with only 2 or 3 is really a good plan. Obviously you won't be making a profit in the first few years but having a dead herd because you started too big will put you in the hole.
> 
> Rotating wormers doesn't work on goats. Just makes them resistant quicker. The absolute best and most cost effective would be to do your own fecals and then worm appropriately. Safeguard is pretty much only good for tapeworm and round worm.
> 
> I don't know what field fence is but make sure it is woven wire, not welded wire.


So you think starting with 2 or 3 and working our way up is a good idea? I agree that we don't want to start too big, but is 2 or 3 too small?
I did not know that rotating workers doesn't work on goats..I definitely have some more research to do on deworming. I've heard Ivomec is the best? The fencing we are looking at is woven field fencing.



nancy d said:


> Gotta get back outside so didn't read thoroughly but I echo the estimate on fence is very low.
> Never ever buy welded wire.
> In 06 our start up was in the 5grand range. This included four bred does & mis equipment/supplies.
> Grab a few mentors & find a good goat vet who knows what they are doing.


I made sure the fencing we are looking at is woven, so we're all set there. I actually think I've decided it would be best to switch out the hotwire to field fencing. We will have to line about 1,200 ft of fencing now, so that raises the price a whole lot. We have our vet who is a livestock vet only, so he is very knowledgeable in goats.



bbpygmy said:


> I would most definitely test for Johnes... Any type of ruminants can get Johnes. Johnes is a wasting disease, meaning that your goat(s) could be eating and everything seems normal, but they just start losing a ton of weight and look like they are "wasting" away. In my opinion Johnes is 10x worse than CL. I have personally dealt with both. If you don't test, Johnes can wipe out your whole herd without you even knowing it is happening. Testing can help you catch it before the goat starts shedding. If the goat is shedding it is contaminating your land and exposing your other goats to the organism. Do your research and buy from herds that test regularly.


I haven't done a whole lot of research on Johnes, so I will look into it. I was planning on testing for all three, but now I definitely will. It sounds pretty scary.. and if meat goats are losing weight that could hurt our future herd majorly.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I think it looks pretty good now. Good news is, since you look like you're planning for bottle babies the first year, your hay and grain wont be that high for the first year but still a good move to estimate it at that.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Personally I wouldn't get more than 6 does to start out. Even with 2 or 3 it will keep you busy. There is a big learning curve with goats. The second year you could purchase more does as well as keep doelings. Better off to bring in some new blood the first few years than have everyone related.

Ivomec is a good broad spectrum wormer but you have to worm only if needed. Herds quickly become immune with overuse.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Sounds like you have a great plan!! Starting with 3 sounds great... (Personally I would start with 3-5 and move up from there) parasite and vet expenses are very minimal with that many... Not overcrowded or fighting for food
Save all those receipts because you can recoup some losses on your taxes as a new business  
In Ky if you let the local farm office know how many goats I have and if it is drought or state if emergency for a set time then they issue a check to each farm based off of number of animals.. It only happened once but was near $600.. 
The extension office is a great resource as well


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

We are going out to look at some commercial bottle doelings soon and we halfway(kind of) reserved 2 or 3 registered bottle doelings for late March or April .. We're really excited to see how this goes! Hopefully if we start out right, we can eventually make a small profit. 

Now I have two more questions..
Do you disbud boers or leave them?
AI or natural breeding?


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

With disbudding I'm pretty sure you can do either with boers, maybe not for showing but I dont know that for sure, and honestly if I was starting out with young ones like you, I would probably disbud them. Their horns cause a lot of problems, with getting stuck or in my case, them beating up on the does without horns (I have 2 Nubians and a naturally polled boer that I have to keep separate now.) but then again, they would probably do the same behavior even without the horns. It's something to look into as the process isn't pleasant.

AIing is something I actually was just looking into. Also something depending on your area, who can do it or if you learn yourself. For myself it wouldn't be cost effective unless I had a rather large herd, because I would have to go through a vet, rent their nitrogen tank, buy straws which are around $50-150 just from the ones I was glancing at, and the chance of success is lower than with other animals apparently. So if it's something you learned to do yourself and were able to get a nitrogen tank/other equipment for a reasonable price, it may be a good option I the long run. But for a small amount of does, it may just be a big expensive hassle.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Horns or disbudding... Well that is a personal choice for each rancher..
I personally like horns.. I have seen them fight a dog off until I could get to them to save them.. And they are natural air conditioners.. There are a lot of reason to disbud though..
As far as showing, in Ky they can have horns they just need tipped


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

OGYC_Laura said:


> Horns or disbudding... Well that is a personal choice for each rancher..
> I personally like horns.. I have seen them fight a dog off until I could get to them to save them.. And they are natural air conditioners.. There are a lot of reason to disbud though..
> As far as showing, in Ky they can have horns they just need tipped


 x2, I like how they look and they're usefulness to the goat. I just don't like how vicious they are to each other with them. So I guess I'm more on the fence with that topic than I had thought.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

My dairy goats are all disbudded. My boers are all horned. They don't share same areas. I definitely like the horns as handles. Makes it easier for me to handle them


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't think that it is a bad idea to start off with only two or three does. Your first year should be enjoyable and not overwhelming. Also .. not sure why you are planning on bottle feeding but it is expensive to buy formula and is quite time consuming, plus the mammas first year- they quickly learn that you are going to feed them and loose part of their mothering skills. So unless you are going dairy- I would reconsider having the dams feed their babies for the first year. I think it is good that you are starting off small. You can add on later. Most people get in too deep with goats too quickly.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Well things moved slightly faster than we had expected. We now have one doeling and are picking up another on Friday morning.

This girl is super sweet, not started on a bottle but we are working on it. She should learn fast, but is struggling right now. It typically takes me two feedings to really get them going, so she's doing good. She definitely has a suck reflex so I'm not worried. We have her in a tub with a heat lamp for the first day, but she will be moved out to the barn tomorrow once we get her started on the bottle. She will still have a heat lamp. She will only have to go a day without a friend, so I'm hoping she will be okay. 
Her dad is a gorgeous Boer and her mom is a thick thick thick Boer, not registered but from gorgeous parents. She's going to be a good little producer I think. She's out of triplets. 
We are really excited about this little girl, and I think we made a good choice with her. 
I think we're going to leave horns on, most people just tip horns if they are going to show Boers around here. (I did some research.)


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh.. and the thing about fences- you will be needing to planning on a couple of different pen options. Fences are something that we find ourselves continually wanting to improve on at our place. The work and time of building fences is huge! A good quality fence built will not ever be regretted. Instead of spending money on extra Goats your first year, spend it on good fencing material instead. I see so many scabbed together fences at peoples goat farms- goats are getting out and critters are getting in easier so... good fence.. good fence.. You will have no regrets on that part. A couple of quality registered goats at $200- $550 each can instead get you some good fences, good quality hay feeders.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Awe.. love your new goat. so special. Have fun and enjoy this time.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Cute little face


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## RaineyDayFarms (Oct 10, 2013)

Everyone has already posted some great info.

I was just going to add a few things about AI.
I'm going through a company that specializes in goats, deer and cattle. 
I already bought the straws and they are storing them at their facility. 
Straws run anywhere from 50-500+ depending on the bloodlines and Ennoblements etc. If you can place the CIDRS and give the injection, they supply everything else.
This was the prices I was given.
Set up program $15
> Synch $17.50
> AI $45 (cervical ai)
> Semen storage $12/ quarterly

Personally I don't want to keep a big buck right now. Maybe in the future, but I really like being able to get outside bucks. Plus its super fun buck shopping 

I think your doing a great job planning all this out. Not too many people do it. I agree with starting small and working your way up.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

packhillboers said:


> Oh.. and the thing about fences- you will be needing to planning on a couple of different pen options. Fences are something that we find ourselves continually wanting to improve on at our place. The work and time of building fences is huge! A good quality fence built will not ever be regretted. Instead of spending money on extra Goats your first year, spend it on good fencing material instead. I see so many scabbed together fences at peoples goat farms- goats are getting out and critters are getting in easier so... good fence.. good fence.. You will have no regrets on that part. A couple of quality registered goats at $200- $550 each can instead get you some good fences, good quality hay feeders.


I completely agree. Luckily the majority of our property is fenced beautifully! We do need to add woven wire to the three rail, but that is pretty much it. The fencing is brand new (put in beginning of last year), and that is a blessing. 
We definitely will put in good fencing on the three rail, but I completely agree about the fencing. We also have a way to make 3 separate 15' x 15' pens. Either for quarantine or bucks, or whatever we may need them for. Along with five 12x12 stalls for separation.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

RaineyDayFarms said:


> Everyone has already posted some great info.
> 
> I was just going to add a few things about AI.
> I'm going through a company that specializes in goats, deer and cattle.
> ...


We don't want a buck right now either, that's why I was looking into AI. Our vet office will actually store semen and inseminate your doe for you, but I'm not sure what the pricing is. 
Do you have any idea what the success rating is with AI? That would be the biggest thing for us. If it's higher with natural breeding we would probably go with that. I could google this, but I'd be interested in hearing from someone with experience in AI.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I think it's around the 40-48ish percent range, depending on the does heat cycle and the technique used. Not 100% on that though. 

Congrats on your new baby!


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## Lily's Mom (Jun 8, 2012)

Start with a very good buck, he is the future of your herd. I feed all natural and here in Illinois get $2.00 - $2.50 a goat. OUr hay is about $5 a bale for barely average hay. 
Castrate all your males other than your herd sire to avoid King of the Barn wars. You get a higher price at market for wethers V bucks.
Hoping the market is better where you are. I have been at it 4 years and still run in the red.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

So we got the second doeling today. She's super adorable. 

She is a runt though, about half the size of our first doeling. She's 3 days older too. Slightly lethargic, but she also had a two hour car ride home. Being started on a bottle and getting it slowly. She very good on her feet, her eyes are bright and her umbilical cord is dry and looks good. She's just not bouncy or loud like a normal kid. I guess we'll see what happens! She's napping right now, hopefully she's more active when we bring her in for her next feeding.
We scheduled a vet check next Friday to make sure everything is going well, so we will get her checked out then.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very cute! B Complex shot wouldn't hurt. Also do a pinch of baking soda in 1 bottle per day.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

I will definitely do the Baking Soda but I don't have any B Complex on hand. If I may ask, what does the Baking Soda do? We took them out to stretch their legs and she was bouncing all over the place, I think she was just cold and tired.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Helps with any tummy issues.


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## Ol_Goat (Feb 18, 2015)

In my experience, hot wires are nearly useless without a substantial visual barrier, like a woven wire fence to back them up. If they can see a way through, they'll try. Had a buck that would walk right through 4 strand electric fence on a 2 joule charger - the shock would only make him push harder. Field fence is only just "ok" for goats without horns, but they will still put their heads through and push for all they're worth to get to anything edible they can reach on the other side, because "the grass is always greener..." The last kids I had I didn't disbud, and they were constantly getting their heads/horns caught in the field fence. If I was to do fencing again from scratch, I'd use 4' high 2x4 woven 'horse fence', plus a hot wire at about 1', and another at the post tops for perimeter fencing, with 48inch electronet for rotational paddocks. Horse fence costs a bunch more, heavier to work with, and requires plenty of posts, but far less trouble when trying to keep goats contained. The electronet makes it easier to adjust paddock size to the number of goats grazing and pasture growth rates. Far better to do intensive rotations (of 21 days or less with at least a 30 day 'rest' between grazings) for parasite control than rely on wormers. This is about all I know about goats, all learned the hard way. May all of you be blessed in your efforts.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

I am going to go take pictures of our property to show you guys, and see what you think!


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Awe.. so cute. So happy for you. Love baby goats. As for bucks and hot wire fence. The hot wire on a page wire fence was plenty for us to keep our bucks in. They sure respected that wire. It maybe true that Boers will not be as inclined to attempt climbing a fence as much as other goats. If it is possible it is best to have a pen inbetween your bucks and Does so that the pens are not side by side eachother. Our first buck would push his wire spool over to the fence and was attempting to jump over but I caught him. Things like that have to be chained or pegged down.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Alright I got some pictures and drew on them to give you an idea of what we're doing for the goats.

For the electric fence it will be 1" electric tape. The shelter will be 2 sides but there will always be hay on the third side for a wind stop. It will be roofed and can possibly have some more kidding pens in it too. The kidding pens will be in the horse stalls. We have five so a possibility of 15 kidding stalls, plus some in the shelter & arena. Each kidding stall will be 6x6. There wont be a kidding stall in front of the gate so each kidding pen will be accessible. Overall we have room for 20+ separate kidding stalls.

Last two pictures are of our current field fencing. It was put in last year.


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## DappledBoers (Feb 10, 2013)

I love your plans


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Instead of putting electric on your white fence, I'd definitely do a field fence. It will prevent a lot of problems...kids escaping, predators, etc. The woven field fence you already have up looks good.


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## Goats4Milk (Jan 2, 2015)

Don't forget about trimming hooves. Get a metal stand(you can do wood, but metal lasts longer) with sides to hold them and train them to love getting on it by treats, brushing or feeding grain. 

I can't tell you how many times we've gone to market or auctions and the goats had horrible hoof rot from over grown hooves. The guy down the road trims his goats every two months. He has boer goats. He started his heard at a young age like you and only fed them on the stand. It's fun to watch them do the hooves. The goats will line up wanting to be next because they know the goodies in the bucket. A LOT easier then trying to catch them. Also think about doing copper bolus instead of loose minerals. Then you know they are getting it and don't have to worry about having minerals being fouled or not eaten. You can buy the cow size and then the small pill capsules, weigh them and then make your own for a fraction of the cost. I just bought 25 4gram goat pills(need 1 gram per 22lbs) for $16. I just need to give it to them every 8 months. Cheaper then the block I had put out and they weren't getting enough from it anyway(they couldn't lick it enough to get all their needs met).

Rock piles will help with hooves and they'll play on them. Also picnic tables, benches, electric spools etc are great for keeping your goats entertained. A bored goat will find trouble.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Goats still need loose minerals even with copper boluses, there are lots of essential vitamins and minerals they may be lacking in their diets...


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll look into copper boluses, I haven't had much experience with them. I could do both as minerals aren't super pricey around here.

We were planning on having a ramp/toy with sandpaper over the surface that will help keep their hooves worn down. I'll plan on trimming every two months. I still have a stanchion from my previous goats (milk goats) that I'll use until it wears out. 

I also attached a picture of the newest doeling, Esther. We ended up naming the first doeling Bernadette.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

My boer business has a completely different goal and business plan, however I do have a suggestion for any livestock business start up. Start with bred females. If you buy doelings there is more cost in feeding and care before there is any return. Then you have to pay for breeding service, semen, or buy a buck. If you buy mature females that are already bred you can start building your program and see some return within 5 months.


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## Goats4Milk (Jan 2, 2015)

BCG said:


> My boer business has a completely different goal and business plan, however I do have a suggestion for any livestock business start up. Start with bred females. If you buy doelings there is more cost in feeding and care before there is any return. Then you have to pay for breeding service, semen, or buy a buck. If you buy mature females that are already bred you can start building your program and see some return within 5 months.


See, I do dairy goats and everyone I talked to before starting said to start when they are young so they'd get used to you. That way they'd be easier to train. I guess you don't have to train meat goats as much?

She could always attend auctions or the BGA(is that the right acronym for the Boer goat association?) in her area and find some one with a decent buck willing to let them service her does.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Goats4Milk said:


> See, I do dairy goats and everyone I talked to before starting said to start when they are young so they'd get used to you. That way they'd be easier to train. I guess you don't have to train meat goats as much?
> 
> She could always attend auctions or the BGA(is that the right acronym for the Boer goat association?) in her area and find some one with a decent buck willing to let them service her does.


ABGA.  
And no boer goats don't need to be trained like dairies. It's nice when they've been handled and like people, but not a necessity.

I'm sure there are puerile in the area willing to service does. However there is a lot of expense in doing so. Breeding fee, testing fees, travel, etc.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I agree with BCG, bred does are easiest for a newbie and will give you the quickest return. Doelings will need about a year + 5 months before they give you anything in return. And who wants to feed a buckling for a year, before he can get the job done? 

The second best option is to buy yearling does ready to breed, with a proven buck.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

The kids slept in the house last night..It was chilly and when we went out for the 10 o'clock feeding they were huddled and shivering. 

So today we made a little warming hutch for them. It's a 55 gallon barrel with a heat lamp attached to the top and hay for bedding in the bottom. It gets nice and cozy in there, and they love it! Hopefully they can stay outside now. They are doing really well, playful and eating well. They do have a bit of milk scours, but were treating them with Arrest Electrolyte & Scours Therapy. We used this on our old kids, and it works really well! They have one more feeding of the solution and then they should start getting better.

We spent the day cleaning so they were outside playing for about 6 hours. They napped in the sun and stayed warm. It gave me a chance to get some cute pictures..We just love having goats again.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

They're so cute! Have fun and enjoy 'em while they're young


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

They are looking so alert and happy. The one with the brown leg in front looks my Nutmeg. She has that same marking.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Just updating a bit.. We now have 5 doelings. 3 commercial and two registered. Edith and Vivian are registered with ABGA. They are all bottle babies and we are having the best time with them.

Welcome Bernadette (black collar), Esther (green collar), Paisley (pink collar), Edith (turquoise collar) and Vivian (no collar)!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They sure are adorable!


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

What a sassy smirk that Paisley has in the last picture lol!


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## moparevers (Mar 25, 2015)

Cool story and interesting follow. You have some nice looking stock to start with.

I had similar plans - originally bought 3 boer cross weanlings (currently 4-5 months old) and now found a pair of bred does and a billy - to make it more complicated for me...


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Just giving a bit of an update..The kids are growing fast and we're having so much fun with them. We found a great deal on two registered fullblood does that we couldn't pass up, and we will be picking them up on the 15th. Fancy is 3 years old, and Abbi is 5 years old. We are thinking we'll stick with the does we have now, but if another good deal comes...Who knows..!

The fence goes up on the 12th, and we are building a shelter this weekend! We're moving along! I also posted a picture of the (half) painted spools that they will have in their pasture. We like to have bright and colorful things around the house.. The colors for their side are lime green, teal and pink! We're still looking for a water tank - any ideas of what is short enough but holds a lot of water?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

We have one of those blue 55 gallon food grade barrels cut down to somewhere near the 15-20 gallon mark. I have been happy with that. And it is a bright color


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Yes, we use those blue feed barrels too for the bigger goats. When kidding season comes, I am so cautious at letting the young babies near that large of a water trough as they can easily drown so we also have the smaller troughs for the mammas and babies that are flat on one side and have an automatic watering system hooked up. It would be hard for a baby to drown in these as I am able to put them up high enough out of their reach.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

That is one of our worries too, so we have been using little buckets since we only have kids right now - but we're looking for troughs. The blue feed barrels actually sounds like it will work well! Thanks!!


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I now treat all water containers with suspicion when there's little ones around or their coming is imminent. 

I had that happen last year, I was using a plastic drum that was cut in half. A little one jumped in an drowned :mecry:

I also had a doe the year before last year, give birth to her third baby in a water bucket..was just one of those little 1.5 ish gallons. I'm guessing she was turned around licking the other two when third came out. Was really upset there, was a cute pinto colored doe.

I have a automatic waterer now that's only about 3" deep.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

We've thought about an automatic waterer but they are crazy expensive. So far we've found a 6" deep Rubbermaid trough that we may go ahead and buy. The youngsters have been living in the barn; but they are moving out on 4 days! Fence should be in by Monday. They spend the day outside if the weather is nice!

We pick up the two older does in a week, and are going to look at bucks tonight. I will be posting a thread later today for critiques. Getting a shelter built this weekend or next, they have a temporary one but we need to get a nice one built.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Started on the leveling for the shelter tonight. We're going with a 12x18 run in shelter. The actual run in part is 12x12 and the storage room is 6x12. It's going to be amazing! We got a Nubian wether for our buck's companion and we pick up the two older does this Friday. The fence goes in tomorrow and everything should be ready to move in by Wednesday.


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Forgot about this thread! We have 11 goats total now. 9 does, and 7 are being bred. We have one doe due 1/1/16 - 1/11/16, and the rest are in with the buck right now! 

The shelter is set up for winter and so is the barn for kidding! Everybody is doing well.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Looks great!


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## RustyBucketBoers (Feb 17, 2015)

Haven't updated this in a while! Our goat herd is expanding and we are having so much fun! Still working on making a profit, but the love of these animals makes it worth it. 

We had our first kissing season this past spring, and had 12 beautiful and healthy kids! We kept 6 does and everyone is growing and getting ready for breeding next spring. We have 3 wethers and a buck that we will be taking to market this winter and we can't wait to try some goat meat. (Seems bit weird as it's our first time raising meat animals.) We sold our first buck and purchased another one that will be arriving on the 23rd of this month! We plan on breeding at the end of October beginning of November! We have 15 does to breed this year!

We ventured into AI and bred two of our does via that method, and they are due Nov. 16th! We're hoping for healthy babies from them again.

Everything is great!!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Beautiful kids! Love the colors and the heart.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

RustyBucketBoers said:


> We had our first kissing season this past spring, and had 12 beautiful and healthy kids!


Beautiful. 

I like the "kissing" season you mentioned, but, I bet you meant "kidding".


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