# Depression?



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I was just wondering how many of you think the economy is heading for another depression, with the Dow Jones dropping 600 points everyday . . . you don't have to post a comment . . . and if the moderators think this post is not appropriate for some reason they may erase it at any time . . .


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, first off, I have to admit I'm an optimist. But, I'm also a realist and that makes me worry about the future. They say that the difference between depression/recession depends on if you have a job or not. Since Hubby's regular job is to provide dental services for the "community health center", his job is not in jeopardy. But, we just bought a small dental office, so we could suffer a little there. Hard to tell though. Our prices can be lower then the BIG Beautiful offices, so that may help. But, we'd like to upgrade our chairs, x-rays etc. (For instance: a good new chair and delivery system runs around 12,000., a panoramic x-ray would run around 25-30,000.) But, we have to have these items, so there we are between a "rock and a hard place".

What I'm really worried about is if we keep re-electing the yahoo's that are responsible for this mess...Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc., They are trying to make this a socialist country, I'm afraid they just might have made it happen.


----------



## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

My parents think we should stock up on food and stuff, so that's a bit scary. We are preparing for the worst I guess


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

We have always had stuff set aside for emergencies, flashlights, candle, canned foods, etc. We just bought two rainbarrels for the goat's water supply. 
My dad has been getting fewer calls for work. . . . so we are being extra careful with money.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Well, we just built a 2 story mansion to sell . . .and with all that's going on, selling it isn't likely. My Dad's thinking about withdawing all his money from the bank . . . i think we're in for the worst right now . . . I have had people trying to give me their ten thousand dollar horses . . .right now the ranches around our place are trying to hold out . . .I'm afraid people are going to start either 'letting loose' the livestock they can't sell or shooting them. I think we're in for a long hard depression. . .


----------



## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

I think we are going to go into a depression- Oil is down to $48 a barrel, but the gas stations are getting richer and richer-food and commodities are going up-I have heard that gas in a few other states is $2.30 a gallon and it is $3.49 here in wilson nc.-when you can find gas!!! If something doesn't happen quick- a chain reaction is going to happen-I sell auto parts, but if people can't afford to go to work, they can't afford gas, they quit driving, nothing happens to their car.... we sell no parts, same thing with daycare, or anything else. Someone needs to step in and help - If it doesn't change in a few months-we will have to sell out!!! People can hardly afford to pay bills-let alone buy a goat-help us SOMEONE!!! this economy is heading down the drain----


----------



## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

I really think it revolves around a lot of things. If prices on everything continue to go up then Depression here we come! If the prices go down a ways them the economy will start going again. The main contries we get our oil from in the middle east didn't realize that hurting the U.S. would affect the entire worlds economy like it did so that is why things are starting to go down but that needs to continue. I think the presidential election will have some impact but not a lot at the rate things are going.So IMO that is whats happening please don't take offense if you disagree. :shrug:


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I bought a gallon of milk $3.19 (was 3.70), gas was also down to 3.19. Housing is going to suffer...but the prices were artificially inflated...so that's to be expected. If people panic and pull their money out of the banks it's just going to make it worse. It doesn't hurt to stock up though...I'm going to purchase some canned veggys etc...I've heard that you should purchase extra shoes, stuff like that, especially if you've got growing children.


----------



## enjoytheride (Oct 5, 2007)

It's hard not to worry when the news is full of doomsday reporting but it needs to be remembered that the people making extreme statements are people who live and breathe money- making it, spending it and having more than anyone else. They have no idea that chickens produce eggs or how to milk a goat or garden or anything. 
I think now is a time to be cautious about spending- being prepared as well as is reasonable to deal with the fall out. But we don't live in the same world as in the Great Depression. There was no Social Security, welfare, food stamps, fdic insurance on bank depostis, etc. Not that really bad things won't happen but there are a lot of road blocks to halt the fall along the way.
Not being able to borrow so much as has been available in the last few years will take some adjusting but is probably a good thing in the end- that is one of the things making prices go up out of all reason.
I just hope that the Government doesn't do something really stupid like start printing lots of extra money. But even that will not make chickens stop laying eggs.......


----------



## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

My theory on this is..
For shop keepers and petrol station peoples
Put down the prices. They might suffer a bit for a while but it could help the whole economy? Right?
Maybe they will realise that once the price goes down, people buy more and the pressure eases


----------



## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

I think they should lower gas too- But what bothers me is next July-minimum wage is going up to $7.25-sounds good, but all that will do is make the cost of living go up even more. Yes you get more money, but then the price of food and everything else goes up with it.


----------



## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

One of things to remember is that when we went into the last depression, there was not all the agencies that we have now to help people out. During the 20's people pulled their money out of the banks because the banks were not insured (FDIC) like they are now, so it is really rather silly to pull your money out of the banks. The bank are FDIC now because of what happened during the crash. There was also the dust bowl that hurt the farmers so much in the 20's, costing people their farms, and added to the difficulties of getting food. Now all the rain in the midwest didn't help them this year, but the corn crop was not as bad as it predicted to be. It definitely was not as bad as the dust bowl.

On the other hand. I have already thought about saving some chicks and kids for meat next year. I have seeds left over from this past year so I can plant a garden and have meat and milk. I think it would be very wise when buying Christmas gifts this year to think handmade or locally bought. If you are not helping to support your local business who is? If nobody is - those small business will go out of business, which is not going to help those people who own them.


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Take it easy on the "gas station owners", their "mark-up" is only a few cents per gallon. They make most of their money on the "other stuff" like selling water for $1.29/bottle. I don't know how many "poor" folks I know that buy "iced tea" in bottles, or Starbucks coffee every day. But please! You can make a cup of tea in a microwave in 2 minutes and pour it into a bottle (I use the gator aide bottles my hubby likes, easy to get ice into) for a nickel! I'm sure our parents would just "puke" to hear us talking about a "depression"! The REAL depression split up families...imagine having to send your children to other family members, my mother went to live with her uncle and aunt in Washington D.C., he worked for the government (nobody gets laid off there). For 2 years! 

We will get through this, and it will get worse before it gets better, WE ARE AMERICANS! And, by the time I actually got gas, it had gone down to $2.99/gallon! It was almost like the "good old days".


----------



## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

I do agree Di, there are SO many way we can save money- and be better for the environment too. Bottled water is just tap water, buy one bottle and use that over and over refilled from your own tap. 

Make trips count, plan when you go to the store and buy everything at one time. I don't know how many times I used to run to the store get home and find I was missing something and run back. Now I plan and I try to do more things when I go to work. Either before or after I stop and pick up things. 

Everyone can have a small garden and grow some veggies. Even a container on your back porch! 

I am amazed at how many times I see good things thrown out when they can be be fixed easily, or going out and buying expensive equipment when with a little thinking you can reuse stuff that is already in your own home. 

Prepackaged food is expensive and wasteful. It takes a lot of processing and materials to make. Buy carrots and put them in reusable baggies instead of buying them that way. Precut food, come on, it is not hard to cut an apple. 

Okay stepping off soap box now


----------



## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

I am definitely interested in becoming as self-sufficient as possible...I think that there are going to be some very tough times ahead...and I'm not just talking about the near future and all the "next great depression" stuff that's going around. What worries me is the fact that we are running out of oil. Oil is going to be gone...and a lot sooner than we are being led to believe. We are not going to be able to come up with new technology and energy sources fast enough to replace oil. Oil is a very cheap and dense source of energy...there is nothing else that even comes close to being able to produce the amount of energy per ounce that oil does. The world cannot support as many people as there are today without oil, let alone how people there will be 30 years from now. What I'm saying is that there could quite possible be worldwide famine...marshal law will be declared and life as we know it will be completely changed...for those who survive. I know this may sound extreme, but I think it's something everyone should think about as a possibility.


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Ok, now I don't think I agree with the "running out of oil" thing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that, I've heard there is still 100+ years left, and that's not counting the stuff that's harder to get to. I agree we should conserve, but I'm not for mandating it. For instance, we have 3 vehicles, 2 suv's and a Ford Sport-truck, not high mileage vehicles, but, Hubby drives about 10 miles/day x 3 days to work, and then our little office is only 2 miles. I go out for groceries and animal feed, but, we don't drive that many miles. We thought about trading one of the suv's for a Prius, or similar. But, it's just not cost effective, considering the amount of driving we do. And when we do go on a trip, we want to be comfortable, and SAFE. 

We are looking into some solar power though, we decided to take the money we'd spend on a vehicle and put it into something that would really save us, improving our home heating situation.


----------



## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

The most optimistic prediction that I've heard is that oil production may not peak until 2035. Personally, I think we're much closer to peaking than that. I know that "peaking" does not mean "running out" but it might as well for the majority of us. I would not be suprised if, in as little as 15-20 years, the average person won't be able to afford buy oil based products. Demand is rising and we've already used a lot of the stuff that's easy to get to. It doesn't matter that it's there if it can't be refined fast enough to keep up with the demand (and it can't--even with new refineries opening up daily in China). When I started driving (8 years ago) gas was only abut $1.00 a gallon. Now it's at least 3x that in most places and has been more. 

And I won't even mention the impact that deep drilling has on the environment. 

Di, you are very lucky that your family doesn't have a long commute to work and the grocery store. A lot people are not that lucky. 

I think solar power would be a great investment--I have been looking into that as well...


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

WE are NOWHERE near running out of oil. That is a scare tactic that people use to promote alternative energy. 

There are so many places in the world that have oil available we just need to tap into it. But the environmentalist are holding us back. THe dangers to carabu in Alaska is NON EXISTANT since they do not even travel in the area that is being discussed to drill in! it is crazy how people like to distort the truth to promote their agenda.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

we need to get a poor man into the white house . . .I think that would change things alot. These richaholics who keep getting to be president have no idea about the struggles to just make it by. They don't really care about how you feel---- like with this 7 billion dollor bail out plan---- Bush says he'll give it all back . . . but they won't. If presidents like Bush and Clinton keep getting into the white house, the middle class and work class Americans are going to suffer. (I am not meaning to offend anyone, but this is my opinion. Please don't comment a retaliation if you feel angry.)


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

unfortunatly only "rich" people make it in the higher up politics. :shrug:


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

you have a point . . . but what if was someone public supported? Ever listen to Michael Savage? I think he's planning on doing that . . . getting public donations to you know, support one of 'us' so to speak . . .


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well I dotn know who he is --- thus that is the problem. To make it into such a high office you need HIGH public exposure. Name recognition is so important.


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

The price of oil is coming down. The spike (I don't know what caused it) was not sustainable, simple as that, the free market will prevail, one way or another. We have to keep the pressure on our representatives...like it or not...this is a world that runs on oil...we can and should switch to renewables when we can (however, I am NOT for burning up or FOOD SUPPLIES). But, we need to get the Chris Dodd's and Barney Franks out of leadership positions. 

Like it or not, we must change Social Security, if you think this melt down was bad, I shudder to think what will happen in the next few years if we don't.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

right on Di


----------



## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

Even if it was decided that Alaska was to be drilled TODAY it will be ten years before we see any of that oil...if then. And we would still rely on importing oil because there's no way we could get it out of there fast enough to keep up with the demand for it. Alaska will get drilled...but it's no solution to immediate or long term problems. 

I'm not trying to scare people...and I'm not saying this is definitely going to happen....I just think these things should be considered as possibilities...because who really knows? We don't know who's being truthful or realistic...NOBODY knows for certain where we'll be years from now and anyone who claims to is wrong... 

Oil or no oil...however you look at it...I still think alternative energies and cleaner energies should be promoted as if we were running out. Living in a sustainable manner should be a priority. I care very deeply about the environment and think that we are doing wrong by something that has provided us with so much by continuing on path we're on... :sigh:


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't think we need a poor person in the white house, poor people are just as likely to get corrupted as a rich person, remember power corrupts. I think we need an honest person more than anything who is willing to work for the people and the country rather than their own personal agenda.

As to the energy thing, I think the only answer is to start drilling in this country and have environmental restrictions to protect the environment while oil is being drilled. Biofuels like corn based ethanol and biodiesel from soybeans are not the answer, and they are extremely inefficient and hard on our vehicles. I read an article that scientists are experimenting with an oil producing algae that is extremely efficient to run in our vehicles, production for that is a few years off I think.

As far as the depression goes, I don't think it is going to be as bad as it was in the 30's. The one thing about the great depression is that this country entered into WWII and basicly spent their way out of the depression, thousands of jobs were created making planes, boats and weapons for the war which got us through the depression.

In our case, I think that this happening will help to make Americans realize that they cannot be spending beyond what they make and that money does not grow on trees and maybe be a little more frugal in the future.

I don't think its the end of the world though, I think that thinking its the end of the world in any case is a really negative thought anyway. When you think negative thoughts it just makes you feel worse about the situation and nothing positive ever came from a negative thought!!

just my two cents


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

:applaud: consider running for pres. yourself Sarah . . . nice speach.


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Talitha, but I have other areas of interest I'd like to make an impact in, being president isn't for me :wink: 

I don't mean to rant but I just saw FunnyRiverFarm's post.

The one thing about energy is if you look at it from every single aspect, every single aspect(including oil itself) ends up at a dead end.

First off, I totally agree with you that more people should try to be sustainable. I wish more people would at least try to be.

Yes, the oil reserves will be depleted in time. That is just a plain fact. When is that time? I honestly don't know and I honestly don't think anybody will actually know. Everybody has an estimate but nobody knows what the real estimate is. Until that time comes, we should try to research alternative energies but we should make sure those energies are worth using for the money we invest in them.

Solar energy works for people in places where its sunny all the time but not for people up north. Wind energy(and I'm saying this from personal experience) is probably the biggest waste of time I've ever seen. We have a TON of windmills around here and they don't do much other than be eyesores for the residents around here. Yes, they are making some electricity, but not even near the capacity that this area demands for energy. And since the energy from the windmills isn't stored(I know thats not the right terms but I can't think of it now) that energy from the wind is wasted. The time when the wind energy is most need is on a hot day when everybody is running their AC, on those days not even a leaf stirs!!

With biofuels, even with all these new technology advances in production which allows us to grow more corn per acre, we still cannot supply enough corn to meet the demands for ethanol and still feed this country. The majority of Americans want cheap food, and cheap food is grown on a large scale. If we start using corn for ethanol, less of that corn is getting fed to the cattle, hogs and poultry which feed this country which will drive up the cost for livestock producers which in turn will drive up the cost of food.

And even if we did have enough corn or soybeans for biofuels, the environmentalists do not want the farmers to use pesticides, fertilizers or genetically modified crops. Those three things are the main reason farmers are able to produce such high yielding crops in the first place. There are other alternatives, such as switchgrass for biofuel, but switchgrass is hard on equipment(I mean, really hard) and then we'll have to start giving up corn, wheat and soybean acres to start growing switchgrass. Plus, ethanol is extremely inefficient compared to gas, and it doesn't cost much less than regular fuel anyway. And ethanol uses just as much energy to produce it as the amount of energy you are making from ethanol.

And hybrid cars, did you know you can be more environmentally friendly by buying an older, used gas saving car that to buy a new hybrid? Thats because buying new cars is just contributing to the amount of carbon put into the air to make that car. Plus, when you go to plug that car in, you're still putting carbon emissions out at the power plant which provides electricity for the place you just plugged your car in at. I think that if people who don't need to drive SUVs or big trucks would just drive cars, you could make quite an impact right there.

I'm not putting you down but I"m just saying when you really look at it, there is not firm solution to the energy problem without making an impact on the environment. I think that we should try and have a balance of both though, if that is possible.

Just my two cents, stepping off the milk stand now. :shades:


----------



## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

Of course I realize that anything we do is going to have an impact on the environment...but that doesn't mean that we should not try to go out of our way to ensure that that impact is as small as possible. I guess that's what we're both trying to say...

I don't think all of the focus on clean/alternative energy should be concentrated on conventional fuels...I think more time, money, and research should be spent on developing hydrogen cell tehnology...this looks very promising if the bugs can be worked out of it...

I do agree about the windmills...they cost a lot, but are not all that efficient. 

And I also agree about people rushing out to buy hybrids...it's not the most environmentally friendly option in some cases...especially if the car they already have is only a couple years old...I drive a diesel Volkswagon that I bought used...it gets around 40 MPG...and I'll drive it til it dies.


----------



## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

We are becoming more self sufficient -- we slaughter our own beef, pork, and goats, and next year we are planting a huge garden and canning all of our veggies. we are getting chickens too. My husband is talking about riding our horses more to save on fuel-now that would be a sight at Wal-mart :ROFL: :ROFL:


----------



## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

FunnyRiverFarm said:


> I do agree about the windmills...they cost a lot, but are not all that efficient.


Oh I did forget to mention the positive thing about windmills, did I mention how much they are doing for the local economy creating jobs? They break almost every other day. :ROFL: One of them got struck by lightning this summer and it just shattered the blades. That was really close to a home too.

I really wish they would put more research into hydrogen cars, they need to stop spending so much money on ethanol. I wish I could remember too that article I read, somehow scientists were growing oil with algae and it sounded really cool.

Oh, I love diesel Volkswagens, I'm trying to convince my parents to get one, they are like little tanks!!


----------



## Candy (May 14, 2008)

I just got to thinking that IF there is a depression, we'll do what our grandparents and great grandparents did. We'll work together, feed each other, care for each other, our families will have to stay together and all will have to help. It wouldn't be easy, but it won't hurt us to learn how to do with less---don't buy on credit--we all have something to offer and I think it will make us feel good to be able to help one another. We won't pray to make it go away, but for strength of character, moral strenght, and the strength to carry the cross we have been given. I'm tough and I'll make it and help others too! :grouphug: 
Candy


----------

