# Protein Bucket v Loose Mineral



## LSRR (Aug 28, 2017)

So I have a protein bucket out for my herd and they use it and are all healthy. It says on the label not to add any other mineral/salt sources on it so I didn't, but I've been wondering lately if that's the optimal choice. Should I be offering loose mineral as well, should I even be using the protein bucket? Also, how often should baking soda be offered? I currently put a pan of it in once a week, but if it should be free choice then I will make it so. Diet described below.

Dawn to 4pm - Foraging on 16 acres

4pm - 1 scoop (3 quart) of grain (MFM PRO SHOW™ Goat Developer is an 11/64″ pellet with 16% protein and 4.5% fat which contains added ammonium chloride to help reduce the incidence of urinary calculi and is medicated with Deccox® (Decoquinate) for the prevention of coccidiosis. This feed includes Zinpro® Availa®4 organic trace minerals, Diamond V® yeast culture and Alltech® Sel-Plex® source of organic selenium. Probiotics have been added for improved gut health. Tasco® is added to help keep animals on feed during hot weather. It can be used in a show goat program as well as fed to growing goats in a production operation. MFM Goat Developer is a qualifying feed in the MFM Pro Show™ Award Program.)

They have access to their protein bucket at all times. *ETA* - I have 16 Dwarf goats that are all penned and fed together.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm thinking that's to cover their butts. A protein bucket is used for extra protein not the minerals. Yes there are minerals and vitamins In it but there is in everything, pellets, even hay has them to a point. Personally I have both out. Right now they are sucking down the protein tubs (I get tubs not buckets but same thing just more) because their hay is not as good as it should be, not junk just not as good and there's no forage and so they have cut down on their minerals a little bit they still eat them. I have to refill minerals every week not 3 days kinda back off.
I don't put baking soda out for mine. There seems to be two sides on this one. The one says yes do it and the other that says that keeping it out will keep the goats from making their own.....Florid I think it's called. The only time I put it out is in times that bloat is a good possibility. Like last year I went from so so quality hay to tested just a tad under dairy quality and even though I was slowly changing them over I liked the added piece of mind. Same thing if I hold back a field and start letting them out on the green grass. But other then that mine don't get any


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## Boer86 (Jun 8, 2016)

A good loose mineral will provide a lot the pasture and feed may be lacking. Protein tubs are good for goats on average to poor forage. The extra protein helps their rumens utilize forages that are low in protein better. They can digest faster and therefore consume more and maintain condition better on below average pastures. 

Loose mineral mixes use salt to attract the goats to consume as well as limit the amount consumed so as not to overdose or over consume the mineral. Goats will know when they’ve had to much salt and will not consume the protein tub if it has salt as well that’s why the manufacturer usually recommends removing other sources of salt so the animals consume the recommended amount per day to get the benefits.

I give my goats a cattle protein tub when I am only providing them basic grass hay if they are getting alfalfa then the extra protein isn’t needed. I always keep our a good loose mineral free choice regardless.


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## LSRR (Aug 28, 2017)

I haven't been providing hay as they're only in overnight. Everyone who came to me thin gained weight beautifully and I've reduced their grain from twice to once daily and they are still gaining. I can provide Alfalfa or coastal hay if needed, however. I plan to provide hay in the winter so they can stay warm and full even if my pastures die out. 

Why provide the cattle tub instead of a goat tub? Could a horse tub work too? I do have an extra horse tub laying around...


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## Boer86 (Jun 8, 2016)

Protein tubs are pretty expensive protein supplements when compared to alfalfa for example but they are convenient since the goats can self feed and there is little to no waste. In my area cattle protein tubs are available in larger sizes and compared to the small goats sizes it is more economical to buy the larger tubs and cattle and goats can utilize the same minerals where as sheep can be copper sensitive. The tubs are really for protein the small amounts of minerals in protein tubs are kind of useless when compared to a good high copper loose mineral mix. Horse tub should be fine and there is nothing wrong with letting your goats feed from your pastures as long as it is keeping them in good condition. 

I try not to feed grain because it makes my goats addicted and they become so noisy and needy when they start getting used to the stuff. I prefer them to go out and forage and browse and use alfalfa pellets to pen them up faster at night.


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## LSRR (Aug 28, 2017)

That's why I use the grain too, gathers them all quite nicely. They get 1 scoop to share between all of them, so I don't think they get much from it. I will say, however, when I switched them to the MFM they're on they all (even the healthy ones) got a lot shinier and healthier looking.

I will give them the horse one too then, I've been meaning to find a use for it. The horses I got it for haven't needed it and my farrier said they probably shouldn't have it due to new issues... so be it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are feeding a medicated feed, you need to feed them by the directions on the bag. If they aren't getting the proper amount of coccidistat per feeding per day, then you are just building resistance to that drug.

They should be making their own bicarbonate so they don't need baking soda unless there is an actual problem.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> If you are feeding a medicated feed, you need to feed them by the directions on the bag. If they aren't getting the proper amount of coccidistat per feeding per day, then you are just building resistance to that drug.


Excellent point.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I disagree with some cattle tubs being ok for goats. A lot of the tubs for cattle has urea in it and goats can NOT have that! Before you buy one labeled for cattle go over the tag and make sure there no urea. 
I do agree that it is much cheaper though. The little buckets I forget how much they are but I get the general purpose one from tractor supply and it's 200# for like $60. If I remember right that 5# bucket is $20.
For what you are doing the tubs are perfect! That is exactly what they are for. I feed no grain but have the tubs out all year long so they can pick and choose when they want it. It's very interesting to watch them with it. You can half way tell the quality of the feed they are getting, be it as hay or grass by how much they go after the protein. If they need it they will attack it if they don't they won't really touch it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When my forage is sparse and my hay is suboptimal (hey, it happens) I'll get one of these for each of my pens.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/prairie-pride-goat-protein-pail-18-lb

I have 6 pens, so I don't know how I'd afford 6 of those larger tubs. Plus I really love and use these buckets, for mineral, for kelp, for water buckets in sick stalls or kidding stalls. So for me since they are part time, they work.

That said, I would NEVER depend on those protein pails to replace my minerals.... It is ridiculous they have that on there. But they do.

I don't give grain, but I do give alfalfa pellets. And acres of natural forage during the day, and hay during rainy days and during the winter. I give Cargill's Right Now Onyx, and sometimes Co-op brand Supreme Goat Minerals. But usually the Onyx. And also extra Copper and Selenium.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Baking soda is a buffer, it reduces the acidity in their digestive tract. Hay and browse does the same thing naturally.

Baking soda in the diet started as a result of the dairy cow industry. Cows get fed a huge amount of grain, way more per pound of milk produced that a doe would. Plus, they get silage, haylage, soybean meal etc...... to make them pound out the milk. Now where near as much roughage as they truly need for a natural diet and to balance out all that acid. All those lead to acidosis. Baking soda cuts the acid. Unless you are feeding your goats a huge amount of grain/concentrates and almost no hay or browse, they don't need baking soda.

Another reason not to feed baking soda. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Goats crave salt (sodium chloride) for the sodium. They will eat the Baking soda, satisfy their salt needs and not eat enough loose minerals to meet their basic daily mineral needs. They add lose minerals to the salt as a means to get them to eat the minerals. If you just put a tray of minerals without the salt out for them, they will almost never eat them, the salt is what attracts them to it.

Some show people do feed tons of grain and little hay, so in that case baking soda may help. However, baking soda neutralizes the acid in urine, which is needed in male goats to dissolve urinary crystals that develop and cause urinary calculi and blockage. Hay and roughage does not do that, it just buffers the rumen. Most meat goat grower feeds contain ammonium chloride to acidify the urine, which baking soda would neutralize. Roughage does not.


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## LSRR (Aug 28, 2017)

ksalvagno said:


> If you are feeding a medicated feed, you need to feed them by the directions on the bag. If they aren't getting the proper amount of coccidistat per feeding per day, then you are just building resistance to that drug.
> 
> They should be making their own bicarbonate so they don't need baking soda unless there is an actual problem.


Very good point, I have weighed them all and will be adjusting their feed accordingly this evening. Thank you.



lottsagoats1 said:


> Baking soda is a buffer, it reduces the acidity in their digestive tract. Hay and browse does the same thing naturally.
> 
> Baking soda in the diet started as a result of the dairy cow industry. Cows get fed a huge amount of grain, way more per pound of milk produced that a doe would. Plus, they get silage, haylage, soybean meal etc...... to make them pound out the milk. Now where near as much roughage as they truly need for a natural diet and to balance out all that acid. All those lead to acidosis. Baking soda cuts the acid. Unless you are feeding your goats a huge amount of grain/concentrates and almost no hay or browse, they don't need baking soda.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the insight on the baking soda. I wasn't 100% certain of why it was offered in the first place and this makes a lot of sense. I will no longer be putting it out for them.


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