# 2 vets stumped .... what now?



## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

first, tyvm for this forum. i've learned a lot from it already. 

quick background: first of december we came home to a sick goat. crying, white gums and eyelids, scours. immediately went to vet. had worms and coccydia (sp?). treated her with vet meds. (don't remember offhand). her bottlejaw got much better; still anemic though. a week later, bottle jaw was back and she had worms again. vet treated her again. extreme anemia so we gave her transfusion. 10 days later, blood count still seriously low. vet gave more meds and another transfusion. i requested b-12 and vet didn't agree but sent some home with us anyway. his instructions said one cc injection per week. was home for three days but gums and eyelids were still white. took her back to have blood checked. count was an 8. vet said no more transfusions and nothing more he could do. our vet called tallahassee vet who specializes in goats. t-vet said with an 8bc, goat shouldn't be walking. prognosis not good. i immediately started "magic" and red cell. 30 cc of "magic" 4 times a day and was giving 5 cc of red cell 4 times a day for the first week. (now i'm giving her 5 cc x 4, once every 3 days) also started giving .5 cc of b-12 daily and that is ongoing. gums are slightly pinker and scours are gone. she still eats (not as aggressively) and loves her licorice-flavored treats. 

she cried again today when i gave her a shot, and appears to be favoring her left hind leg. she has started "sinking in" right above her hips and seems to "quiver" in that area. she went back to the vet today: no worms and her b.c. was a 12.5 so the vet simply said to keep doing what we're doing. 

1) why is she crying if she's okay? 2) why is she limping and her belly-area starting to sink in? 3) how long can i "keep doing what i'm doing" before i overload her on iron and b-12? 

we've had this goat, and her sister, for almost 5 years and they're wonderful pets to us. everything was going great ... until it wasn't. didn't realize just how much we didn't know about goats until now.

i might should also include that we had her utters removed the beginning of 2011 (she couldn't lie down without great difficulty) and i feel that this weakened her immune system.

any directions/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. (kim)


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Is the B vitamin... fortified B complex? IF so I would up the dose to 1cc per 20#'s to help keep her appetite up. I would give her Probios. Not sure on the red cell there is a point where you can give too much. What wormer did you use? If she had bottlejaw she may have a worm not showing up on fecal and not killed by the wormers you used.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a thought... if you are giving her shots in her leg that might make her favor it....
All I can say is good luck... 
M.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

I agree with Miranda. I had a goat I was giving IM shots to, and she began favoring the haunch where I gave them. Switch it up and look for different areas to inject.

Other than that, I agree with probios, maybe look into foods with bulking capacity so that she gets back weight and strength. Most good things (like vitamins) can not be over given, as the body just expels what is not needed.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm in the middle of the nutrition chapter in my biol textbook.... You can overdose, especially on fat-soluble vitamins... not sure about iron... from just googling it (and finding human stuff) it looks like you should be fine... It might cause issues with zinc absorption though...
also found this "While it is possible to overdose a goat with iron (and copper), this probably won't happen even with daily dosing (except in kids) because rebuilding red blood cells occurs slowly. However, it is best to err on the side of safety and dose the iron daily for a few days and then weekly thereafter." from this page http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... goats.html
(this site has proven to be good in the past)
M.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad you have enjoyed TGS already....and Welcome.... :wave:

How much wormer and what kind did you give her? Did you give it 10 days later as well to get the hatching eggs...if not they will come back...



> t-vet said with an 8bc, goat shouldn't be walking. prognosis not good. i immediately started "magic" and red cell. 30 cc of "magic" 4 times a day and was giving 5 cc of red cell 4 times a day for the first week. (now i'm giving her 5 cc x 4, once every 3 days) also started giving .5 cc of b-12 daily and that is ongoing. gums are slightly pinker and scours are gone. she still eats (not as aggressively) and loves her licorice-flavored treats.


b-12 is good to give to a goat that is down....glad you stood up for your goat...hope is always there and some vets are not very bright....or wrong in their diagnosis....

Giving shots do hurt sometimes....it could very well be from that...

I do agree ..keep doing what you are doing.. :thumb:



> 1) why is she crying if she's okay? 2) why is she limping and her belly-area starting to sink in? 3) how long can i "keep doing what i'm doing" before i overload her on iron and b-12?


When she was fecal tested... did they test for cocci...that may be another issue..rapid weight loss...
B12 I don't think you have to keep giving... that it has nothing to do with building blood.... is their a reason why she needs so much right now?

Do you have any loose salt and minerals for goats or cattle.... out ..free choice for your goat?

Removal of her udder will not cause her immune system to be down now...it was caused by the worm load..


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you for all of your responses!

Answers to some of the questions:

I'm giving injections sub-q. That's what vet said. I'm giving them in the area behind her front legs and I alternate sides.

I give her the B-12 based on this post at Onion Creek Ranch's site:
Goats heavily infected with worms become anemic, and Vitamin B 12 is an essential part of bringing them back to health. B 12 injections may be required daily over a period of weeks or months, depending upon the severity of the anemia.

is cocci different than coccydia (sp?) ... she had that, too, and was treated and "it's gone." (vet's words)

She has a salt lick .. but I've recently read that I should have loose minerals, including baking soda for them to have free access to?? Please tell me specifically what I need and I will get it.

My feed store did not have Vitamin B Complex .. my husband has been to two of them. One told him to inject the Red Cell ... but I'm not doing that because I thought it was for oral use.

And about the utter surgery ... I read somewhere (been doing a LOT of reading) that traumatic events, such as surgery -- even changing feed -- can make them susceptible to problems they otherwise may not have. I was just hanging my hat on that since she and her sister are treated for worms at the same time and faithfully, and only she had them. Her sister is the goat she received the blood for the transfusions and she's doing well. The week before we went on vacation, both goats were playing and being "normal." We get back and Bailee (the sick goat) was in bad shape; in a week's time. I know the worm overload is what caused the anemia and these ongoing problems, but for the life of me, I can't wrap my head around how quickly it all happened and why she's the only one with the worms.

I don't know the name of the worm treatment we were using, I'll have to look and see. The vet has given her the last two treatments since this started, and treated her sister, as well. They're both worm free right now, and we're going to follow up with him again in a month. After that, we'll go back to using whatever wormer is recommended either here or by the vet. Apparently the last wormer is no longer working.

These goats are very spoiled pets and I hate to think something we ignorantly neglected has caused them harm. :tears:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Minerals you need a loose mineral preferably one for goats... Manna pro is good, as is onyx... The main thing is that it is loose... 

you are right in thinking that cocci is coccidia.

It is possible that Bailee is just more susceptible to worms... I'd be interested to hear what worms (specifically) you are dealing with... I know there is growing concern with resistance of Haemonchus contorus (barber pole worms ) to various wormers...

Ditto Pam on the worming after ten days...

Apart from that I'm not sure if there is much else you can do... You sound like a pretty darn good goat momma..... 

I'm going to talk to a friend who had a similar issue... and see if she has any thoughts....
M.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

What worm you are dealing with and what wormer is very important so find out that info from the vet and also the doses given. Some vets don't know and often will underdose just killing off enough to make a fecal look ok but not enough to stop the recurring problem. 

What about her temp? Does she have any other signs of anything. Usually the goats with weakened immune systems are more susceptabe worm load so that may be why her sister is not effected. 

You can do the injections SQ over her rib cage and that may not affect her walking as much. 

Loose minerals are a must. Manna pro is made for goats as well as Purinna loose goat mineral. For cow Onyx by Cargill or Sweetlix Meat Maker are both good (I prefer the Onyx). 

If she is still about the same and not recovering well I personally would do a course of antibiotics on her to try and knock out any underlying issues.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Barber pole worm..... causes bottle Jaw....usually Ivomec takes care of it...



> You can do the injections SQ over her rib cage and that may not affect her walking as much.


 That is a good idea..reedomstarfarm :thumb:



> I give her the B-12 based on this post at Onion Creek Ranch's site:
> Goats heavily infected with worms become anemic, and Vitamin B 12 is an essential part of bringing them back to health. B 12 injections may be required daily over a period of weeks or months, depending upon the severity of the anemia.


It is true... that it is good for a goat that is down...but... if she is getting to where she is limping....I don't want her to get to the point to where she can't get up from being to sore.....

I have read to avoid repeated injections during long-term treatment you can add B vitamins to the feed of a severely-anemic goat by using a swine vitamin premix or top-dressing feed with Show Bloom, both of which should be available from a local feedstore or from a mail-order house like Jeffers. I know that injections are best but if you can supplement feed this ...maybe you can cut back on her shots a bit..so she can mend.... Remember... I only read it somewhere and I have never used these...but... it may be something to think about..... if she gets really really sore..



> is cocci different than coccydia (sp?) ... she had that, too, and was treated and "it's gone." (vet's words)


 One in the same.... :thumb:



> She has a salt lick .. but I've recently read that I should have loose minerals, including baking soda for them to have free access to?? Please tell me specifically what I need and I will get it.


 Yes... they do need the loose salts and mineral free choice...they can lick and chew all day.. on the blocks and not get out of it.. what their body needs.... 



> My feed store did not have Vitamin B Complex .. my husband has been to two of them. One told him to inject the Red Cell ... but I'm not doing that because I thought it was for oral use.


 Never heard of injecting it... you are right... it is given orally ...

[/quote]And about the utter surgery ... I read somewhere (been doing a LOT of reading) that traumatic events, such as surgery -- even changing feed -- can make them susceptible to problems they otherwise may not have. I was just hanging my hat on that since she and her sister are treated for worms at the same time and faithfully, and only she had them. Her sister is the goat she received the blood for the transfusions and she's doing well. The week before we went on vacation, both goats were playing and being "normal." We get back and Bailee (the sick goat) was in bad shape; in a week's time. I know the worm overload is what caused the anemia and these ongoing problems, but for the life of me, I can't wrap my head around how quickly it all happened and why she's the only one with the worms.[/quote]
Stress does trigger worms and cocci.... to explode..... in some goats... it can take them down quite quickly.... 

With wormers... they cannot be under dosed...it makes the worms stronger called "power worms" and immuned to that wormer...so we have to use a different wormer... in order to kill those worms....also... if a wormer is over used to much...can cause the worms to become immuned....

I am still praying... she will be OK...she has already fought the odds...keep up the good work..... :hug: ray:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

This is what my friend said... in case it helps at all...
"WoW, sounds very similar to what I went through. The only thing the vets suggested to do differently was to give the dewormer orally, not in shot form, as that would be more effective...and to try different dewormers until fecals showed results. The ivermectin (sp?) was the one that finally worked (I'm pretty sure).

The only other things I did was add probiotics to a limited supply of water (essential after cociddia), and I supplemented daily with nutridrench until Nibs was stronger. I'm wondering if her goat is fully over the coccidia, sounds like some major gut issues (either as an after effect or current)."....

I would say don't do wormer orally... probably been mentioned already... it is more effective but it can also cause significant trauma to the gut if there is a significant worm load... You could try the nutridrench though....
Thinking of you and your baby... Good luck...
M.


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you again for your input!

I haven't been able to take Bailee's temperature yet. I've not had any help nearby and she's not been very cooperative on my lone attempts. I've never had need for a milkstand, so I'm at a disadvantage at the moment. I will have some assistance today so I will get back to you on the temp.

I did get the name of the meds compiled so here they are:
12.13.11 Draxxin per ml str (qty 1), Ivomec per ml Str (qty. 3), Corid Solution per ml Str (qty 180), Panacor suspension, per ml Str (qty 120). _my recollection is that most of these were pills ... i was giving her a total of 11 pills (crushed, including pepcid and tagamet) x 2 each day mixed with molasses ._

12.16.11 Ponazuril per ml Str (qty 10), Carafate Tab STR (qty 4), sub-q fluids, Banamine Injection (qty 1)

12.19.11 Metronidazole 500 mg Str (qty 10), Albon 250 mg tablets Str (qty 54), SMZ-TMP 960 mg Str (qty 20)

12.26.11 Blood Transfusion

12.27.11 Strongid per ml Str (qty 1), Anaplasmosis test, B-Complex Injection Str (qty 1), Tetradure per ml Str (qty 3)

1.3.12 Ivomec per ml Str (qty 1), Tetradure per ml Str (qty 1), Tetradure per ml Str (qty 3), Strongid per ml Str (qty 1), Strongid per ml (qty 1)

1.12.12 ... took back for cbc and blood was up to 12.5 from 8.0 on 12.27.11. inquired about leg and it was checked and did not feel it was broken or sprained since she made no sounds and walked on it okay.

The above meds are what the vet has given her. I've also been giving the b-12 injections (.5 ml 1 x daily) and magic/red cell like I posted earlier for about two weeks. I did not give any magic or b-12 yesterday; but did start her on probios and loose minerals were made available.

This morning she's in worse shape. About three days ago I noticed she was favoring her left rear leg. Two days ago (12th) hubby took her to vet to have it checked. They noticed nothing but said her hooves could use some trimming. Yesterday (13th) I trimmed the hooves but it didn't help her. She was trembling in her hind haunches. I separated her and her sister so she wouldn't be pestered. If she has to step over anything, she cries out. I went back to the feed store near closing time (busiest time of day) in hopes to find anyone who knew anything about goats and what might be wrong with her leg.

After describing symptoms, someone told me that they once had a horse that had worm overload and after treating, the horse went lame in left hind leg. Said there is a vein that runs along there and the death of worms can cause clots to form and animal can suffer lameness due to clot. I researched this and found reference in horses, but nothing referenced this occurrence in goats. Said to give the horse an aspirin twice a day and it might help to thin the blood and break the clot. (I've not done this yet. blood thinning worries me if it turns out to be something else.)

She's not eating like she was. Last night she readily ate her licorice treats but this morning she wouldn't touch them. When she urinates, it is very small amounts and it seems that she squats more than usual. I walked her over to the spigot to give her water from the hose so I can make sure she's getting some. She wouldn't drink unless I put my fingers in between her teeth so water would gently enter her mouth and force her to swallow. She has, in the past few days, been readily licking the water that comes from the hose. (She does have water in her pen, but it's easier to tell what she's drinking when it's given from the hose) The tremors in her haunches are extremely evident and it seems that she's losing energy to stand up. I walked her to her feed platform area and she went to step up and she cried out and fell forward. It was like she was exhausted from the walk to the spigot. I removed the wood platform so she doesn't need to step up and left her out there just standing in front of her feed.

I plan to return to the vet today and while there, I will ask for the B-Complex.

Could this be the clot issue, or perhaps a selenium deficiency? ... we've come so far; I just don't want to give up on her.

I'm going to look some more for the Nutri-Drench. Hopefully will have better success today finding it than yesterday.

Our vet is WONDERFUL about outside ideas and information. Anything you have to offer will be well received by both of us.

I believe in "counting blessings" and I must say: the vet has been a real blessing to us ... as has all the kindness we've always received from those we've consulted with regards to our critters.


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

okay ... vet can't see bailee today . had an emergency situation come up. feels he's done all he can for bailee and it's either her or a cow that has a dead calf inside of her. i get it, but now i'm starting to feel true despair. 

i've read that killing off the worms too quickly can cause major problems and because of that, i'm fearful of thinning the blood with aspirin. i only have b-12 here to give to her for energy and can't find complex b vitamins that can be injected. i'm still waiting on some help so i can take her temperature. 

she still won't touch her licorice treats and if i go near her, she starts shaking. i'm not wanting to stress her out anymore than she already is so i'm staying away from her until i have some help to hold her.

should i go back to giving her the magic and the b-12? should i give her aspirin? if so, how much?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would NOT give her any asprin at this time. 

Have you given any Red Cell? Or Geratal from the store.


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Was giving her red cell, 5 cc 4 times a day up (week or little more) until two days ago and then i stopped to give her system a break. (someone's advice from somewhere).


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

just checked her temp and it's 101.76. gave her 10cc of red cell with 20 cc of magic. gave her more water from the hose. when i went out to her pen, she was at the food bowl. i had sprinkled probios on top of feed and there was a small area where there was no more probios on top ... i had put a few of her licorice treats on top and that's what she ate but hopefully she got a little bit of the probios in there, as well.

i found some nutridrench and am on my way to go and get it. i will be away from my computer for a few hours while i make the trip. i still have b-12 i can give her but no b-complex; haven't been able to find that. think i will get some kind of electrolytes while i'm out so i'll have it on hand.

i put her in the field and she's lying in the sun for now.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

if she is eating the probios... I would be inclined to give her as much as she'll eat... according to this site it isn't possible to overdose... http://en.allexperts.com/q/Goats-3480/g ... t-goat.htm
Does that sound right to everyone else?

Her temp looks pretty good.... given it is winter...

Good luck...
M.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow she has had a lot of meds.... she definitely needed the probiotics and viT B...to put her Rumen back in check... 

Some of those meds... I never heard of and Strongid is what I thought.. was for Dogs... not goats... Also pill form is unusual for some of those things... never knew... they even existed in Ivomec....or corid.... I always used the liquid form...so I cannot even tell if she was given proper dosage...  Sounds like she was wormed and treated for cocci though... 

giving her paste probiotics(for Rumnant animals) in her mouth is best to ensure she is actually getting it and not spitting it out...some do....

If she isn't drinking enough fluids she won't pee A lot ..Try some warm molasses water....it may encourage her to drink more.....but you are saying she is squatting frequently.... she may have a bladder infection...or she may have a uterine infection.... Is there any foul odors coming from back there?

Not sure... if it is a clot or not....never heard of a goat having that but I can't say either that it can't happen... If it is a selenium deficiency...she will need Bo_se.... maybe your vet can test her mineral levels.....

Nutra drench.. I find at Tractor supply...

I am praying for your girl.... :hug: ray:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> .....but you are saying she is squatting frequently.... she may have a bladder infection...or she may have a uterine infection.... Is there any foul odors coming from back there?


That's a good point... was talking about this (with my dog) to a vet recently.... worth checking out....
M.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That's a good point... was talking about this (with my dog) to a vet recently.... worth checking out....
> M.


 :hug:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

whew! .... finally made it back and got nutri-drench (tractor supply 2 cities away) into bailee, along with red cell and more magic. also picked up some electrolytes for the water and probiosed the food. if i can't o/d with the probios, i will put it in the syringe of nutri-drench tomorrow and give it to her that way, as well.

my vet called, too, to check on things and talk me through my anxiety. he gave me some b-complex but i didn't give that to her yet. he recommended 3 ccs twice a week, along with b-12 (1cc) once a week. but he also said to go with my instincts and with what you all say if i feel secure with it. 

he didn't recommend aspirin either. with her anemia, the blood thinning wouldn't be good. it's definitely her left hind leg and it almost seems as if it's the front portion of her hooves. she walks pretty normal (not fast though), but if she has to move suddenly or pick up her feet to step over something, even something small, she cries a small cry. i have pulled her toes apart, moved her leg around, pushed on the front of the hooves, pulled the joints, rubbed my hand up and down and massaged the leg and she doesn't make a sound or flinch. she did flinch one time when i put my fingers between her toes, but only the first time i touched there, not anytime thereafter. her leg is not colder or warmer than her other legs. the air is cool outside so when i first feel it, i feel coolness; but after holding it a few seconds, i can feel warmth. hopefully this means no clot.

doc said her temperature was within normal, but i was worried about it being on the low side. we're in florida and while it is getting into the 40s at night, the daytime temps are upper 60s lower 70s this weekend.

she's settled in for the night. i've made her a new sleep area since she can't climb the ramp into her fort. she seems content and her sister can't get to her to cause her pain or anxiety while trying to play.

oh, it was suggested the shots might be causing the leg pain, but would that be it if i never give the shots in her back leg area? it's always up front, and i vary the sides and the sites and use a super small needle. she doesn't even flinch when i inject her. 

please let me know your recommendations on anything i've written, plus the b-complex/b-12 injections that i plan to start tomorrow.

thanks so much!

kim


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

forgot about the squatting/urination question:

the urine does NOT have a foul smell, nor is it discolored. she doesn't grunt or make noises either. i am inclined to believe she just wasn't getting enough water because she didn't want to step up to the platform to get to it. i have remedied that problem and will continue to force feed water from the hose as well so i can monitor her intake a little better.

will keep you posted on her output tomorrow.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2012)

CoRid is no longer recommended by many professionals because (a) some strains of coccidia have become resistant to it, and (b) CoRid is a thiamine (Vitamin B 1) inhibitor. The importance of thiamine in keeping goats healthy is difficult to overstate.
Per Tenesseemeatgoat.com


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow you are a fantastic mum and you have an amazing vet! 
I'm afraid I haven't used B-12/complex so no advice there but if what sideplaner found is right (and that site has always seemed pretty reliable) then it is all the more important to get it into her....
Thinking of you both and here for moral support whenever you require it!
M.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

B- Complex 1cc per 20# SQ daily when undergoing any treatments that can mess up rumen. 

That is a ton of meeds! Not sure on a lot of those and don't understand dose given. 

Can you get a fecal check done? If not or not for a while then..
I would give her Ivermectin Plus 1cc per 30# orally and again in 7-10 days and again in 7-10 days after that. If you cant get that liquid from your TSC then you can use Zimectrin Gold Horse paste @ 3 times dose for equilivent weight horse. 
The ivermectin you did was not close enough together to kill any newly hatching eggs and that is hopefully a good dose that you did not underdose thus creating resistance. 

Cocci? Not sure on the meeds you used for that either I see a few listed but am not understand dose or frequency. They generally are given for 5-7 days straight. 

At this point to save her I personally would go ahead and do a course of antibiotics since it seams none have been done. 
Do you have any antibiotics? If not pick up LA-200 or any generic agrymicin (sp) and do it SQ 1cc per 20# for 5 days straight.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

She's been given all sorts of meds so I would highly doubt Cocci, possibly worms. 

I can see she's been given all sorts of meds for Cocci including the Metronidazole, Ponazuril(like baycox), corrid, Albon and SMZ tabs... so Cocci is pretty much not possible after all those meds that kill them. 

Worms are still possible. I would try to get Valbazen as Panacur, strongid and Ivomec are not very strong.

Draxxin is a VERY strong antibiotic that should have killed anything and SMZ tabs are an antibiotic as well. More antibiotics as this point probably are going to be detrimental with no fever present. 

After looking over the list of meds I would say the issue may be over medication and that if any of them are being continued they should be stopped. I would go with rumen upset. She needs the b-complex, b-12 and probios. Treats are not going to help her right now, she needs lots of hay and access to free choice baking soda. I would stop the pepcid and tagamet as well as long as their is free choice baking soda out. 

There is only 1 or 2 meds I don't know what they are and I can't tell if the right dosages were used on some, but the vet has tried just about everything and more for her so I really think we need to cut back on meds like I said and just try to make her belly feel better.

The leg sounds like you possibly hit a nerve when giving injections or something of that nature that will take time to heal on it's own.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Oh and tetradure is 300mg/ml oxytet, so she's already been treated with that antibiotic as well.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

^glad you saw this thread. 
Draxxin I was unfamiliar with. Is it a single dose antibiotic? 
With the Valbazen or Panacur are they 3 days in a row or 3x once a week? 
Like to have this info for my meeds book.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I also see Carafate is a ulcer treatment med so looking at it she's been treated for everything. So, I think it's over medication, but thats just me. 

Logan- Draxxin is a VERY expensive one shot medication(runs around $300 a bottle) I don't keep it on hand.

I don't use Panacur because that is the vet form. It's "generic" is safeguard which can be used once a day for a total of 5 days to really work. 

Valbazen is a one time dose but can be used once a day for 2 days to treat giardia. The two day dose is a very light dose and their are other medications that can be used for that that are a bit safer. Valbazen should only be used when you know safeguard/panacur is no longer working for your herd.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2012)

Thiamin (vitamin B1) helps the body's cells convert carbohydrates into energy. It is also essential for the functioning of the heart, muscles, and nervous system.

The main role of carbohydrates is to provide energy for the body, especially the brain and nervous system.

I am surprised that a vet would give a goat Corid , there are safer products to use Aspin makes the one I use.
I've gota bottle of Valbazen I will give you. I wormed 35 feeder kids with it and had to turn around and Ivermec them 2 weeks later, white wormer has stopped working here and I have a 2 liter bottle of Synanthic that is worthless to me too. Probably the best wormer I can remember using was Levamosal powder mixed with water looked like Mt Dew and worked no longer available.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

thanks Run Around and wow on that price! 
and the Valbazen is not safe for pregnant does but the Safeguard is. 
Would you BoSe this goat?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

She could try it. A copper bolus might be good as well.

Safeguard is the safest wormer out there. Valbazen is safe as long as it's used right, but I would never use it on pregnant does.


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh, my gosh! you guys are wonderful! It's like that Verizon commercial ... my own little group of support people making it all possible!! :hi5: 

I went out to check on her first thing this a.m. That little bit of bragging I did on Florida weather came back to bite me last night. This morning it looks like snow there's so much frost on the ground! I had put a heat lamp out for them so they could get under it if they wanted and that's where I found her standing this morning.

I gave her the probios/nutridrench (10cc)/magic concoction and I also gave her a single shot of .5 cc b-12 and 2.75 cc of b-complex. I also made sure that she drank some water. I hear a LOT of grumbling going on in her belly. (I don't think I mentioned that to you all before). I also held some baking soda in my hand and she licked a bit of that up twice before turning her head. I've left it where she can get to it in her pen, along with the loose minerals. I sprinkled more probios on her food and removed her sister for piece of mind. There are electrolytes in the water (kind of turned it yellow) and I plan to give her some red cell mixed with magic around lunchtime.

My vet had concerns with the daily injections of b-complex and b-12. He felt that daily injections would destroy her liver and he's basing that on an experience he had with a show steer that he was giving daily b-12 injections to. The steer dropped dead from liver damage. Any thoughts on why this happened, or why it would be different in a goat?

This is most definitely a learning experience for me and you know what they say ... knowledge is power. I figure the more I know and pick from your collective minds, the better my future decisions will be when the time comes to make them. 

I can't say it enough ... thank you for your time and help.  kim


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds like ....you are doing the right thing.... :hug: :thumb:



> CoRid is no longer recommended by many professionals because (a) some strains of coccidia have become resistant to it, and (b) CoRid is a thiamine (Vitamin B 1) inhibitor. The importance of thiamine in keeping goats healthy is difficult to overstate.
> Per Tenesseemeatgoat.com


 I still use corid ..to this day... when I need it......with no issues...
After treatment ....I give a vit B complex shot and probiotic... to get their Rumen back in check..... It is up to the breeder.. whether or not ..they want to use it....


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Checked Bailee's temp: 103.58. She's been lying in the sun all afternoon. 

Is it possible that her stiff left leg has something to do with stomach pain? When this whole thing started, she could hardly walk and would cry when we got near her or touched her anywhere near her abdomen area: top, front, underneath .. just getting near it. She's doing that again and lying around a lot. She is upright though and not on her side (holding out this is a good sign). Slowing down though on how quickly she responds to me walking up on her. Doesn't stand up very fast at all.

Could it be more worms causing the pain? When she went to vet on Thursday (12th) they tested some of her stool that was in the crate and there were no worms present. She was already showing signs of leg stiffness at that time which is why hubby took her there.

I'm sorry for the information overload. I just keep thinking I might be leaving out some important tidbit of information that might make a difference. I so desperately want to know the source of her pain so I can fix it. I'm a fixer by nature and this is making me want to pull my hair out. :hair:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Maybe have your vet ..do a ultra sound or xray her stomach..... to see what is happening... that will be a better way to determine what is going on in there....


Temp is fine... but re-take it again... when she has been out of the sun..
let her body temp have enough time.. to go to what it really is.... 
When a goat has been in the sun .. taking the temp right away....can read a higher reading..... so we need to make sure.. it is OK....

Stomach pain... if severe enough ...can make walking a bit hard to do... so it is hard to say...

Is her knee or anything swollen?

Cocci ...if left untreated to long... can cause stomach pain.... and cause a lot of inner lining damage.... 

I would say to give Banamine for the pain and help the gut to calm down...but not so sure.. to give this goats anything more.... it can be a bad thing... if this goat is suffering from ulcers to begin with ....using Banimine to long.. can cause Ulcers...

Also...sometimes ..stiffness and pain... can be due to getting slammed or injured.... 

With all those meds given to her and a clean fecal just recently ...no ...it shouldn't be worms....


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

HELP!

thank you for getting back with me. her pain is progressing and now she's unable to walk too far without collapsing. she is going to the vet today at 5:00 to do another fecal and blood test. 

i'm hoping they'll be able to scan her stomach and get a better idea of what's going on. 

i have not seen her poop in a few days (not saying she hasn't just haven't seen it) but i have seen her urinate. i have crated her in hopes of getting a visual on poop. 

her indentations on her hips where it appeared she was so malnourished is now gone which makes me wonder if she's not bloated and it's just looking normal now. she's not been eating hay and she's only nibbling her food if i stick her licorice treats on top. i am still giving her nutri-drench (15 cc x 2) and red cell (10 cc x 2) and magic (15 cc x 4) every day. i gave her b-complex (2.75 cc yesterday and 2.5 cc today) and b-12 (.5 yesterday and today). she's getting pro-bios directly into the nutri-drench (1/4 tsp x 2) when i give her that treatment. i'm making sure she drinks by feeding her directly from the hose. 

her temp at 3:00 o'clock was 102.7 (she had been standing in the shade after having been in the sun a while earlier). earlier temps were: 7:30 a.m. 100.76, 10:00 a.m. 101.46.

she's grinding her teeth.

after walking for any length of time, she will squat like she's going to urinate or she will tuck her back hooves under and rest on her back haunches. when left alone, she will be found standing. if you walk up on her, she will walk for a bit to get away, but she pretty quickly gives out. there is no swelling in her legs or joints. the tenderness/pain seems to be on her sides or belly area.

any suggestions to mention to the vet would be greatly appreciated. i leave in an hour.

thanks!

kim


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm afraid I have no suggestions.... I agree an x-ray/ultrasound and maybe do urinalysis? Maybe a barium series??? (I know they do these on dogs not sure about goats)...... and maybe there's something for the pain that won't destroy her stomach? I don't know... 
Good luck.... It sounds like you have a really fantastic vet... and you are a wonderful mum...
M.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hey Kim... :hug: 
I am sorry she is getting worse yes... please get an xray or ultrasound to find out what is going on... 

If she hasn't poo'ed in a long time... stomach pain can happen....giving her an enema will help....but.. if you are getting a sample for the vet...you might want to ask the vet... if you should do this before the appointment...the only thing is... if she is constipated ....we need to give her one....very soon.. being constipated ...that may be a factor for her pain... if you haven't seen her poo....

If she is bloated ...that can cause pain as well.... and could be from constipation...is her tummy extended.. above her her rib cage? If so ...give her some gas X human kind that looks like tums... massage her rumen (left side)

To make sure.. she gets plenty of fluids ...I would try warm molasses water and see if she will drink that.... a lot of Does like it...

Her temp dipped down to a bit sub there at 7:30 am.... she is getting cold early morning... maybe a coat or heat lamp would be good ...

grinding her teeth...means she is not feeling well or in pain... 

Squatting.. can be a...bladder infection... uterine infection ...to urinary stones.... or if pregnant getting ready to kid.... or constipated....



Let us know... what the vet says...I hope you get an answer.... :hug: ray:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Just got home from the vet. He is of the opinion that she is suffering from ulcers. When you touch her stomach, she tenses up and she grinds her teeth. And he says her squatting is from trying to find comfort from the weight and her ulcers. He has dealt with cows in this same situation, and horses. (Our Bailee is a new experience though) Her poo is fine, and her urine checked out okay. Her red blood count is up to a 15 and her color has returned to her eyelids and gums.

He told me to stop the magic because the sugar can irritate the ulcers and he gave her a tramadol for pain and a dose of ulcer gard (which is an animal version of prilosec in gel form). I am supposed to give her that one time a day. He wants me to feed her bran, such as oatmeal, or Metamucil, and continue the Nutri-Drench and the Pro-Bios. He said the b-12 isn't hurting her but I will probably wait a few days before I go back to that, just to give her a rest from everything else (now that her blood count is back up). (Does she still need it??)

He did a fecal and she is negative for worms or coccidia. Yay!! :stars: 

Everything looked really good (especially since she was classified a "dead goat walking" a few weeks ago) and hopefully she'll find some relief from her ulcer pain by morning. 

I do have a heat lamp that she is able to get under at will. I'm wondering if maybe the thermometer was cold and was thrown off in its accuracy since I had left it outside in the shed. I won't do that tonight so at least the inner mechanisms on the thing will be more like room temperature when I take her temp in the morning. Just a thought.

Please keep my precious Bailee in your prayers. It just breaks my heart to see her not be able to walk from the pain; especially after she's overcome so much already. ray: 

Your support and suggestions have been a tremendous help and relief, and the vet said how great it was that there was a knowledgeable community willing to come together like this. :thumb: 

I'll let you know how she is tomorrow. :type:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I did list that back there in my post as a possibility...wow... poor girl....at least she is now getting treatment.... :hug:

Did the vet say ...what the cause is, so, it doesn't happen again?

Glad her count is up more....that is great.... :greengrin:

No... she doesn't need the B vitamins ... as much now....so.. you can wait a while before you give it again....

Glad she does not have worms or cocci... :hi5:

Not sure about the thermometer but.. it is possible....
Keep the heat lamp out there for her.... :thumb:

I am praying for her ...I been with you all the way and do support you .... :hug: ray:



> Your support and suggestions have been a tremendous help and relief, and the vet said how great it was that there was a knowledgeable community willing to come together like this. :thumb:


 Oh why thank you... that is what we are here for.... :hug: :grouphug:



> I'll let you know how she is tomorrow.


 :thumb: :hug:


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## MAW (Oct 13, 2011)

I was so hoping you would post when you got back from your vet visit. SO SO glad for the good news. I know she's not out of the woods yet but because of your determination, a vet that is open minded, and the knowledge that is shared on TGS it looks like she's turning a corner. Thanks for updating us :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad that she is doing so much better! Great that there are no worms or cocci!!  

As long as she is eating fine she should be ok without the B's. 
I hope she continues on this path of recovery. ray:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Oh I'm so glad that y'all figured out what it is.... Hopefully she'll be getting some relief soon. 
and her blood count's getting up! :leap: 
Can't wait to hear how she's doing tomorrow!
:hug: M.


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Not good.

My kindness is killing her, I'm afraid.

Hubby just went back to vet with a copy of Polioencephalomalacia symptoms and treatments for him to review. Bailee can't get up without much effort and when she does, she staggers and drags her feet.

I've been giving her 60 - 80 cc of magic every day for two weeks now (my kindness) and I'm afraid I've caused all of this by doing so. What I thought was helping to boost her energy is probably causing her demise. 

I've given her a shot of B-complex this a.m. but it doesn't say whether it's fortified or what. Vet wasn't in and his people didn't see fortified on the bottle that my supply came from. Hopefully hubby will be able to meet him in the parking lot upon his arrival this morning and go over everything with him. I'm asking the vet for Thiamine and plan to start that every 6 hours around the clock in an effort to restore her rumen. I can only pray I'm not too late. 

I'm sure she probably does have ulcers, so I'll continue the UlcerGard, but I'm confused about giving her oatmeal. I did give her 60 cc of oatmeal (rolled with no sugar, only water) this morning but now after reading about Polioencephalomalacia, it says to not give grains and only give grasses and hay. Well... our crazy goats don't care for hay. It's always available to them, but they've fed on grass and leaves (and feed and cracked corn), and Bailee isn't having anything to do with any of those, and hasn't for two weeks, which is why I was giving her "energy" with the magic. 

Her temp is bad... it was 100.5 at 7:30 a.m. and at 9:00 a.m. it was 100.2. She's lying under a heat lamp. 

I do have Ringers I can use to get fluids in her, but I am getting conflicting information on nutrition. She shouldn't have glucose because of the Thiamine deficiency and NutriDrench lists sugar a couple of different ways. (Yeah, that was even added to the magic). I've probably poisoned my goat for sure.

Any words of wisdom out there?? ... An exact schedule of "do this and do that" would be awesome because I feel lost here and my vet has already said this is beyond his scope of knowledge. I'm afraid he's not dealt with goats very much (mostly household pets and cows and horses) and there's not another livestock vet nearby.
:help:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

here's the latest:

vet doesn't have b-1 .. have called many pharmacies and other vets and so far, no luck.

his b-complex is NOT fortified. can't find any fortified, either.

he's given me something called CMPK (20 cc in each side of the neck) and mu se selenium (2cc)

i have not given this to her yet.

i am going to move her out into the sun to see if i can't warm her up and wait a bit to see if anyone responds to these two meds and my new conundrum before i administer anything else to her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh No........ :hug: ray:

B-complex...it should say on the bottle.. if it is fortified ..if it doesn't it probably is not....
If the original problem started out ..with a painful tummy and a stiff leg...it may of been an ulcer...you have been giving her Vit B and it should of helped to keep the polio away... I would of thought.... Her temp is sub...if I am not mistaken... I think that with polio... the temp isn't effected? 
Here is a link with the symptoms of Polio...
http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/goat_polio.htm

Not sure what to say ....if she has to illnesses that conflict with the other... that is terrible..... 

Prayers sent.... ray: :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

A goat needs to eat hay or some sort of forage to keep its rumen functioning. If she and your goats wont eat the hay do they have forage? If not you need to try different hay or something.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

What about if you don't give her anything for the day and see how she is doing this evening. Sub temp implies the system is shutting down sometimes from liver failure. ray:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

oh, my gosh.. i feel like i'm on such a roller coaster.

i found the thiamine. going to go and pick it up in about an hour. waiting on my vet to get back with it. 

according to what i read online, b-1 shouldn't hurt one way or the other to try and if that is what the problem is, she should start feeling better pretty quickly. PLEASE CORRECT MY THOUGHTS IF THEY ARE INCORRECT. according to what I read, any extra b-1 will leave the system. i plan to give her b-1 around the clock every 6 hours.

at 12:40 her temp was 101.48. her gums are still pink. i gave her water out of the tap, but she was in pain and wanting to sit down. i forced a bit of hay into her mouth and she chewed it. took multiple attempts, but she got it all.

i have not fed her anything else since that 60 cc of oatmeal this morning... miranda, i'm taking your advice and not going to force anything else on her until we see what happens in the morning.

when i have help later this afternoon, i will give her fluid through Ringers. i think i will put her in a crate with the heat lamp and see if that will keep her warmer through the night so hopefully her temp won't drop so far. she's just really skinny and has no body fat to keep her warm. 

do you think i can give her the CMPK or whatever it is? it is for calcium, magnesium, potassium and something else. i think i want to hold off on the selenium because i read that the margin of error on selenium overdosing is narrow and i'm afraid she may not need it and then i'll kill her with that, too. i'm not an expert though and if i read something else, it will probably tell me something else. as i said, my vet is not well read or experienced when it comes to goats so that's my only hesitation and why i second guess what he's given me. 

i might force a bit more oatmeal, now that i think about it, just because i've not given her any probios today. should i still be giving that to her?

my ears are wide open if anyone has anything to offer.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm afraid to say that I have no more suggestions..... maybe there is some very soft chaffy hay that you can get that she wouldn't have to chew as much?

the cmpk is calcium,magnesium, phosphorus, and potassium and dextrose (aka sugar....) So if she isn't supposed to have sugar then.... I don't know it seems like if the two treatments conflict then you have to decide whether to treat each a little or one first and then the other....

I'd almost say that probios should be forced... unless that will just make the gut flora go beserk and make the ulcers worse? Someone? (doing more research)

Your thoughts on the B1 seem accurate although again that is just online reading and not personal experience/knowledge....


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

i gave her 10 cc of the 40 cc of cmpk ... oh, my! she screamed bloody murder! i had to stop. husband was freaking out, goat was freaking out ... now i need drugs! :GAAH: 

gave her 2 cc of fortified b-complex (100% thiamine) and will do so again every six hours until she's better, or she gives up the fight.

we quarantined her by rebuilding her loft (she loves it) and putting in hay and a heat lamp for her. she has a porch she can go out on (we've secured it so she can't leave) or she can go inside her hutch with her heat lamp and hay. 

when we left her just a few minutes ago, she was drinking water with electrolytes.

can anyone tell me if they've ever had a goat recover once they have started sitting doggy style on their hind legs? when she first gets up to walk she kind of drags her hind legs a bit and then she will make her way all the way up and walk very stiff legged and very slow. she'll go a while and then sit doggy style again. 

doc said i needed to try, but in cows when this happens, he's never had one recover. has ANYONE had a goat recover from this?

i fed her oats. doc said oats were roughage and not grains the way we were giving them. i loaded them up with probios and baking soda.

i'll be back out with her around the clock tonight. i believe in prayer, so i will be praying, too. ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry ...you have to deal with this..you must be a nervous wreck.... 

B1 is OK to use yes.... and you are correct in saying .. extra b-1 will leave the system.....they will pee it out....

Temp is OK... glad her gums are pink.... :thumbup:

Check her skin by pulling it up and see if it snaps back quickly or if it goes back slowly.... if it goes back slow ...that means she is dehydrated.... dehydration can be hard on them and make them weak...



> when i have help later this afternoon, i will give her fluid through Ringers. i think i will put her in a crate with the heat lamp and see if that will keep her warmer through the night so hopefully her temp won't drop so far. she's just really skinny and has no body fat to keep her warm.


 :thumbup: :hug:



> do you think i can give her the CMPK or whatever it is?


As mentioned... I don't think it is the best thing for her....



> i think i want to hold off on the selenium because i read that the margin of error on selenium overdosing is narrow and i'm afraid she may not need it and then i'll kill her with that, too.


 You do have to be careful and not overdose it.... you are right...



> I gave her 10 cc of the 40 cc of cmpk ... oh, my! she screamed bloody murder! i had to stop. husband was freaking out, goat was freaking out ... now i need drugs! :GAAH:


 How frustrating...  :hug:



> gave her 2 cc of fortified b-complex (100% thiamine) and will do so again every six hours until she's better, or she gives up the fight.


 :hug:



> we quarantined her by rebuilding her loft (she loves it) and putting in hay and a heat lamp for her. she has a porch she can go out on (we've secured it so she can't leave) or she can go inside her hutch with her heat lamp and hay.


 Sounds like a great little spot....



> when we left her just a few minutes ago, she was drinking water with electrolytes.


 That is a good to hear... :thumb:



> can anyone tell me if they've ever had a goat recover once they have started sitting doggy style on their hind legs? when she first gets up to walk she kind of drags her hind legs a bit and then she will make her way all the way up and walk very stiff legged and very slow. she'll go a while and then sit doggy style again.


Never had this issue come up with my goats so... I do not have any idea's..



> i fed her oats. doc said oats were roughage and not grains the way we were giving them. i loaded them up with probios and baking soda.


 That is good...
She needs something to help her... keep up her strength and to help her Rumen... Probiotics can be given daily ...if you want to...or after medicine treatment..... some say.. that with certain antibiotics or meds... that giving probiotics with them... cancels out the meds...it is very conflicting info.... so I wait a day after any treatment just in case...

Baking soda not sure with ulcers....



> i'll be back out with her around the clock tonight. i believe in prayer, so i will be praying, too. ray:


 Prayers you betcha...I am pulling for her....and for you ...to keep up the good work and have the strength to do all this... :hug: ray:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

NO MUSE!!!!
Do NOT give her 2cc MuSe, MuSe is very very very strong compared to BoSe. I'd only give 1/2cc if you give it. 

CMPK does sting and should not be given SQ if it has Dextrose in it. Dextrose SQ causes abscesses. 

Sugar Orally will irritate the ulcers.

ray:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

You poor thing... :hug: this is so hard on you... Glad that you can do the oatmeal.... and that she is drinking.
I'll be thinking (that's about as close as I get to prayer) of you and her
:hug: M.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How is she?  :hug:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Bailee's not doing well.  

She's still with us, and has a normal temp, good color in lids and lips, and is pooing and peeing okay. She can no longer stand up though. She can get up on her front legs and she drags herself around. It's the saddest thing, ever! She loves cardboard and she drug herself over to some cardboard to munch on. 

She's been getting the B-Complex injections every six hours for 48 hours. No improvement. I googled some more today and I guess the next attempt is to dose for meningeal worms. We do have a pond, and we do have snails and slugs and lots of leaves and such ... so it's a possibility. I have seen one deer in our front yard a year ago, but that's the only one in the 10+ years we've been here. It's the only thing left to try and even then, I don't know if she'll ever recover enough to live happily and be able to play with her sister without risk of injury.

She's on her porch, in a sling, and doesn't seem to be in pain. She does fuss and make a lot of racket when we pick her up to move her around, but she stops once she realizes we're going to do it anyway and it doesn't seem to bother her as much as annoy her.

We'll give it our best effort at least through the weekend and reassess the situation come Monday. Of course, if she starts showing signs of pain, we'll put her down because we surely don't want her to suffer anymore than she already has.

If there's the slightest chance of her recovery, we want to make sure we've explored the option. If we do put her down, we'll be looking for a good home for Izzee, her sister, so she'll have a playmate. If anyone knows of someone in Florida who might be interested in a wonderful pet goat, and who will spoil her rotten, please let me know. 

Thanks so much!

kim


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh no...I am sorry to hear that... 

Don't let her eat the cardboard... it isn't good for her.... 

Might be the meningeal worm.... if you have a pond...is possible.. not sure if fecal tests would pick that up or not...maybe ask a vet... :hug: 


Glad she is in a sling... at least she can get off her feet....

I am so sorry... she isn't doing very good....but with you ...I am praying that she will be OK....All we can do is pray and try.... :hug: ray:


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## klstrand (Jan 12, 2012)

Seriously? Vet said cardboard was fine as long as there were no staples, and that the goat farmers used to get the broken boxes from our area supermarket until they realized there were staples in them and it killed a lot of goats. Calls it roughage. Ours has no staples.

I get such conflicting information all the time. I tend to believe and rely on people with goats more so than the vet, I'm afraid. I LOVE our vet ... but still, there's so many unknowns and until you've been exposed to them, all you're doing is guessing.

I'm still feeding her oatmeal mixed with water (60cc every six hours) and also making sure she gets 120 cc of water/electrolytes every six hours. (That's almost a half gallon, I think). She has hay available (won't eat it), and also water/electrolytes, but that's all I'm giving her. Should I put her regular feed back in with her or just stick with the oats/probios?

And do you think I should continue with the fortified B-complex while dosing her for meningeal worms; if nothing else, just for the energy? 

I put her in the sling for about an hour at a time and then let her rest for a few hours and then do it again. During the night time hours, I don't do this. She's really just hanging there. Her back hooves are actually turned under instead of being on point like they should be.  I straighten them up, make her put weight on them, massage them and move them around, both in and out of the sling to help with circulation. Please advise if I should approach this differently. 

I will make sure she doesn't get anymore cardboard. Thank you for the heads up. :hug:


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

:hug: :hug: :hug: 
I'm sorry.... I have nothing to say to help you... except that I'm thinking of you both and hoping things start looking up....I know it is so hard to have all the conflicting information.... 
:hug: 
M.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Do you have dexamethasone? I'd be giving her that with the ivomec for MG treatment


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes... cardboard and paper have ink on them or sometimes other stuff ..that isn't good ..... If it had raw meat in there for example and the goat ate it...that can't be a good thing...or... if it was pesticide boxes ect...I really worry about it... you are only grabbing the aftermath of a box and don't know what was actually in it....
Some vets don't know a lot about goats...or are just learning ....I even taught my vet a few things... in which... he was very happy with....that is why... we are here..... to help others... :hug: 

Not sure...about putting her back on the normal feed yet... that one is a hard thing to say... especially if she has ulcers.... SO... I'd stay with what you are doing for now....

It is OK ...to continue the fortified B-complex while dosing her for meningeal worms...it won't interfere with the drug.... 

The sling is a good thing...sounds like you are doing a good job... :thumb: :hi5: 
She sounds like she is knuckling...that is because she is weak.... working her feet and legs.....along with massaging them.... is very good to do....
You are doing the right thing there.... :thumbup: 

Prayers for her... ray:


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