# help..what is wrong with these goats? :(



## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Every single goat here is sick or getting sick with coughing and snot..but not green..mostly clear and sometimes white. It's been about 6 weeks now.

Many of you have heard my situation but for those that haven't I have to explain a little because I feel horrible when I post these problems that I can't properly take care of and looks like I have no business owning goats. I live on property with close to 30 goats that aren't mine. about 20 were sort of lost in the shuffle..abandoned because of a deal that didn't work out between the land owner and the first caretaker...the others the latest caretaker brought in. But I"m here and no one else is so I end up helping a LOT esp when caretakers don't show up or have the time to save babies who's moms have died or abandoned them. So I have 3 that I call my own now. 

The newest caretaker..while good hearted and well intentioned...against my warnings..mistakenly thought he could let them all just live off the pasture grass and not worm for 6+ months (doesn't work in Hawaii) ..they all got really run down and anemic and skinny. Lesson learned the hard way..now he is trying to bring grain and minerals and just wormed everyone and is treating with red cell. But it's really hit and miss with him...and I cannot treat 30 goats on my own. I don't have the time plus I have health issues that just make it impossible.

The first sign was that most of his that he had put on another side of the eaten down 6 acre pasture caught coccidia..even the adults. I brought them back over close to me and got them through that on my own..but we noticed some coughing. Thought at first maybe lung worm..so I treated some with levamasole but that didn't change it. Then we started seeing more coughing and snot noses. I took my 3 and separated them right away in my small backyard pasture. Only one of mine had it. the other two have since caught it from her because I have no where else to put them. I have been treating naturally from Molly's herbals but have antibiotics on hand just in case. (Mine by the way did not get the coccidia) and I feed them better..a little bit of grain as well as alfalfa hay and lots of clippings from around here of glycine, olive bush and hibiscus...plus fruits and veggies. I have seen mine get better..but now two seem to be getting relapses and are coughing more again..one never got it very bad yet..seldom coughs so far. 

So I got the caretaker to come out and provided him with LA200 that the last caretaker gave to me before she moved...I was all set to help him with 3 days (every other day)of shots on tons of goats even though I have some physical limitations..I was buckled up to do it and rest off the consequences later. One day we did it..then he never showed up again. I told him we can't do that....they will get a relapse and it will be more resistant to the LA200. He said they would be fine. When he comes he thinks they look fine...they do act fine. But I live here with the pasture all around me and I hear all the coughing..see all the snot and I know they are not fine. I don't even know if the LA200 would work anyways since it may be a virus and not bacteria related?

Another possibly important factor is that he brought in two giant boar males from a guy down the road that has horrible goat keeping practices. He never worms he has 50 to 100 goats and just puts a bag or two of food out a day and whoever is the strongest survives. Well one of the boar males had a snot nose from the start. He looked horrible. He was not separated at first (mine were at the time so I didn't complain to him about it trying to mind my own business just told him 'that goat is really sick')..quickly he put him over on the other pasture as well as gave him a shot of LA200 a couple of times..but weeks apart. He also had a couple of females over there with him for a couple of months that he brought in from other places. They got switched to the rest of the herd on my side and that could have brought it over to this herd even though they were over here for a while before they got it. The sick guy had been over there for months with the other males yet they all seem fine accept for just since this breakout his stronger brother seems to have gotten it too. Also the sickly boar ended up dying. They are not fed well over there on that side at all..grass gets sparse and he only comes out every week to two weeks and gives them grain. His on my side..I try to share more food and feed them better when he brings me a bag of grain for them. 

I'm seeing lots of relapses in the ones that had a shot and others getting it too. Plus mine that I'm treating naturally seem to have up days and down days. But always they all eat and act normal. Just have coughing fits and snotty noses.

Is there a goat respiratory virus that can last this long? Or could he have brought something in thats really bad from that sick boar male? I would really like to help thin out the herd and find a good forever home for a few that I have gotten close to (not my 3) but I can't give them away sick..or bringing something over to another herd that they could possibly be carrying.

thanks...jamee


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

coughing could be lung worms....is it a dry cough or mucus like? runny nose that is clear could be allergies...hows your weather? stable? wet huind, dry? dusy hay/feed? can you get a temp onthe ones who looks the worse..collect some fresh poop..wrap the berries in a square piece of gauze, twist it tight and float in water over night..Goathier shares this test...inthe morning look to see if there are floating worms or larve..this would be lung worms...treat accordenly..Ivomec plus injected sub q is a good choice wormer..


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Boy, that's a tough situation  Those goats need antibiotics...is there anyone else you could have help you administer? Not that it's your responsibility, but for the benefit of the goats and your goats.

Do you have an animal agency there that could enforce care?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I really hate to say this but I would keep my 3 goats in my yard and let the others go. Let the consequences happen. You might have pneumonia going through the herd. Treat your goats and keep them at home. Until the caretaker and owner suffer big losses, the same problems are going to continue.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Very interesting I will try that worm test. But it seems they are actually catching it from one another like it's a virus. and it's with snotty noses..do lung worms cause snot noses? At the coughs worst it's rattly in the chest..as it's calmed down on mine it's more dry.

There is a lot of dust right now in one part of my small back pasture..but the rest of the pasture if full on grass. 

Our weather is hot in the day...and shoots down lower 60's to upper 50's at night. not a lot of rain but some cloudy and misty rain days. nothing to soak anyone or the grass. I've been here for 4+ years..I've never seen a sickness like this happen before. Only one here or there would get a quick cold and then be better in a week. We still have some that don't have it..but I'm noticing new ones coughing now.

Nothing else has changed with feed to suddenly all be allergic to it I would think. Mostly they are eating the grass.

I will def give my 3 antibiotics if needed..I have read their lungs are small and pneumonia gets them fast. But I have watched antibiotics ruin my son's health. I try hard to deal naturally if I can.

I wouldn't have to take it as far as calling in any animal agency..I could get involved and talk to my landlord..there is someone down the road that would be interested in renting the land and he would actually be close so that he could even be here every day if needed. It's just that he would raise pigs as well and take over the goat stalls probably..and our other neighbors on the property are closer to the stalls and have mentioned that they woudln't be too happy with pigs there. So I'm kinda caught in betweeen. I just need to decide when it's time... I've basically already kindof mentioned that to the caretaker..told him not to think he can't get out of this if it's too much..we will get someone else..just didn't tell him someone was already interested. He started doing a lot more for them when I said that to him. But obviously he's still having issues getting here enough to actually complete certain things.

I've pretty much done that ksalvango...I was super involved when they all got coccidia..I treated them all myself..bought the redcell and started them on that..got some high protien pellets and wormed them all myself. But I was going crazy doing it all and health issues flaring up. So he finally came and started to take over..but never completes it all. We have lost 5 goats I think through all of this...I think that started making him realize it's not working here like he'd hoped it would. So we will see. I wanted to check with you guys before I talk to him again to see if there is anythign else it could be. I'm thinking maybe viral pneumonia brought over by that big boar goat..he had it for months and months..now these guys are sick forever as well.

So will LA200 and pen for the under 6 month olds help viral pnemonia or is that only for bacterial?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!! Sad That is a lot of goats for 1 person to handle... Yikes....! I don't have really any advice but that's just awful... Keep yours away from the rest of the herd though.... Sorry you are in this mess....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Those won't work for pneumonia. I believe Tylan 200 is what you need but I have never used it so don't know dosage.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tylan 200 1 cc per 25 # sub Q every 12 hours....is the best OTC choice B complex as a support and Probiotics a few hours after antibiotics will keep the good bacteria in there... sounds like from what you said it could be the start of puenomia...I hate this but I agree with what Karen said. You are so over whelmed and if the owner wont step up I know its sad..but make sure your goats are safe and healthy and let him deal with whats to come..such a sad situation for those goats...I think Iwouldbe right there too doseing everyone lol..but as long as he has someone to care for them..why should he worry??..A rock and hard place for sure..


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Tylan 200 is over the counter?

sad thing is that since I've lived here longer then he has caretaken..many of the goats in the big pasture have known me longer and I feel responsible for them..I don't have anywhere to separate them..and still too many for me to care for. If I can figure out how to deal with this I may try and treat them. Right now I think there are just 2 out there that I'm close to that have this.

I was so excited to move here by the goats..but have come to realize that because I cannot care for them all that every day it's like babies and children crying at me for help and my heart is broken every single day. It's about as stressfull as it is enjoyable.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry...that is fusterating and sad. 

Yes Tylan 200 is over the counter..I get it at tractor supply..not sure what you have there in Hawaii..


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

I've called two places here and they only carry Tylan 50? One guy thought it might be the same just would need to up the dose because it said something about 50 parts per ml. but he wasn't positive. 

Tylan is also an antibiotic though? It will work on a virus?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..with tylan 50 you will have to do 4 times the dose...so if your goat weighs 100# Tylan 200 would be 4 cc...tylan 50 would be 16 cc


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

snotty nose, cough..it could be pneunomia, which will need antibiotics


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## teejae (Jan 21, 2013)

Pneumonia Symptoms are sudden fever with rasping breath.Hight tempreture 39c -102f,and breathing rate much increased.Give 10cc of Vit.C by injection follow by 4cc every 4 hours till condition is under control.I would separate the strongest and youngest only as you cant treat all. That's if it is Pneumonia. I really suspect its Mycoplasmosis Its almost impossible for the layman to distinguish from Pneumonia.The attacks will recur until they finaly kill the animal  It damages the heart and is highly contagious classic sign is rapid breathing and runny nose caused from being under stress,sadly there is no treatment only good nursing,large doses of Vit C and B12,Good luck! teejae


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

okay ..they have only one bottle left down town (I'm up on the volcano)...I will be able to pick it up tomorrow. They are all out up here..makes me wonder if something is going around on the island. I can guarantee though..the caretaker would not be able to be here every 12 hours to administer. and every 12 hours for how many times? At least I could do a few though.

is this the only one that works on pnemonia? is it safe for under 6 mo old like the LA200 isn't?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..its safer then la200....I was just reading the fact sheet...it says can be done once a day for 5 days...here is the link..
Its about tyaln 200 but its the same medication with Tylan 50 
http://goat-link.com/content/view/177/168/#.Ue8Tb2SDTL8

here is a link on treating puenomia...where is does say every 12 hours 
http://goat-link.com/content/view/100/91/#.Ue8UKGSDTL8

I think the difference is the fact sheet is about cows and the treating puenomia is about goats..

with that said..I have always done it every 12 hours


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would make sure you take care of your own first. You really do have to follow through completely to help them.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

thank you for the info and links.

Cricket..the one of mine that got it first ...she was almost all better..but started it up again just without the snot. coughing more and I forgot to mention off and on larungytis  She will sound fine then all of a sudden she is squeeking again.

Been making them slippery elm in warm water and a little bit of molasses ..seems to calm coughing down for a while.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

OMGoodness, that is an awful situation....I hate to say but I think Karen is right. Let those go...treat your own and keep them separate. It is going to cost a bundle to treat all those with Tylan 50!That is not a job for one person  
You also have to think...if you get them through this, there will be another thing, and another because they are stressed 
Man, I feel for you and them :hug:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

They can also have Robitusin DM to clear their lungs. I would do your 3 and maybe a couple more. Your bottle won't last the treatment otherwise. 
The herd could be put on Aureomycin pellets instead. Then they can simply be fed twice a day. It isn't AS good but, does work okay. Tell the caretaker you need a bag of them...


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

goathiker said:


> They can also have Robitusin DM to clear their lungs. I would do your 3 and maybe a couple more. Your bottle won't last the treatment otherwise.
> The herd could be put on Aureomycin pellets instead. Then they can simply be fed twice a day. It isn't AS good but, does work okay. Tell the caretaker you need a bag of them...


Ok...I need a bag of aureomycin pellets. Will that be safe for the younger ones? We have some out there under 6 months..one maybe 2 months old. Oh and what if the couple I treat with the tylan get into the aureomycin pellets?


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

NyGoatMom said:


> OMGoodness, that is an awful situation....I hate to say but I think Karen is right. Let those go...treat your own and keep them separate. It is going to cost a bundle to treat all those with Tylan 50!That is not a job for one person
> You also have to think...if you get them through this, there will be another thing, and another because they are stressed
> Man, I feel for you and them :hug:


I'm going through that now..there is constantly antoher thing and another thing and another thing :\


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would just treat your goats with the Tylan if you are going to give the other goats the pellets.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

oh and I have childrens allergy which is diphenhydramine HCI that I got for when my Baylee had pnemonia when she was born and abandoned by her mom. It was suggested on one of the goatie websites. It only says releives sneezing runny nose itchy throat and itchy watery eyes though...so probably not the right med?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That ^^ makes sense...use the tylan on yours and pelleted feed on the lot of 'em.

That would be heart wrenching for me to watch....I feel for you...I don't know what I would do in your shoes!


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> I would just treat your goats with the Tylan if you are going to give the other goats the pellets.


okay....there is one in the herd that has a 2-3 month old baby that has been through sooo much and I have done so much to save her. Now the mom has this respiratory thing..so I was thinking I'd treat her with the tylan...but I can't separate her so will stick with the pellets.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is there any way you could bring her and her kid in with your goats?


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

called the 3 feed stores I know of here and no one has nor has even heard of aureomycin medicated feed..figures. I don't understand these feed stores..we do have a LOT of goats here..it's just rediculous..wish I could open a feed store lol!

So I found this on jeffers: http://www.jefferspet.com/aureomycin-4g/camid/liv/cp/CA-A6/

and I'm trying to find out the cost of shipping. What is the dosage? Do you think one bag or two bags? Would just buy more to have it here..but shipping is an issue here. makes things so expensive.

Also it says something about CRD Chronic Resperiatory Disease..on the bag..could that be what the goats have? It sure is chronic! yet no one seems super sick.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> Is there any way you could bring her and her kid in with your goats?


I could try it..but the shelter I have is small..like I cant stand up in it and it fits 3 goats comfortably who can handle being close...a new one thrown in would get pushed out. I do have the bottom of the chicken coup which I could leaven open at night..so they might go in there if they need to. I might just have to do that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, try asking for CTC pellets. Let me do a drug interaction check, I'll be right back.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, both drugs target the same receptors and the Tylan is not supposed to be used in nursing animals as a large amount comes through in the milk unchanged, making it difficult to dose the baby properly. 

The dose for Auremycin or CTC pellets is one 6oz. Tomato sauce can per goat per day. It leaves their system quickly so count the goats, including little ones and give them half the count in cans twice a day. Dose them all the same 'cause the big guys are going to eat more and the kids will need to get their share. It's very safe and doesn't overdose easily.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good info Goathiker  well done


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

jonara said:


> Our weather is hot in the day...and shoots down lower 60's to upper 50's at night. not a lot of rain but some cloudy and misty rain days.
> 
> *Those are prime conditions for pneumonia.*
> 
> So will LA200 and pen for the under 6 month olds help viral pnemonia or is that only for bacterial?


LA200 is oxytetracycline and it works very well on mycoplasma types of pneumonia, but you probably need something like Nuflor or Draxxin with what you are dealing with. Warning: Draxxin is going to get expensive given the number of goats you are trying to help.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Okay, both drugs target the same receptors and the Tylan is not supposed to be used in nursing animals as a large amount comes through in the milk unchanged, making it difficult to dose the baby properly.
> 
> The dose for Auremycin or CTC pellets is one 6oz. Tomato sauce can per goat per day. It leaves their system quickly so count the goats, including little ones and give them half the count in cans twice a day. Dose them all the same 'cause the big guys are going to eat more and the kids will need to get their share. It's very safe and doesn't overdose easily.


Okay...so with my 3 one is a momma still nursing a 6 mo old baby. Not that she needs it..just that they are together and she still nurses. The other one is really not that sick. snot nose is gone and I have only heard her cough a couple of times ever through this. The other one I want to treat is nursing a 2-3 month old..so I guess Tylan is out.

When i called all the feed stores I asked if they had ANY medicated feed at all and the only thing any of them had was for chickens. I'll probably still have to get it through Jeffers. But thanks for the dosage. I do still need to know how long they are supposed to take it for though so I can try and figure out how many bags I need.

Also would you mix it in their regular feeding or do it separate?


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

GoatCrazy said:


> LA200 is oxytetracycline and it works very well on mycoplasma types of pneumonia, but you probably need something like Nuflor or Draxxin with what you are dealing with. Warning: Draxxin is going to get expensive given the number of goats you are trying to help.


well if I get any it would just be for my own. I will try and look up info on those..more drugs I haven't heard of!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Those drugs have to come from a vet or from www.vetserve.com This ones easy. Tylan is eliminated from a goats body in a little more than an hour, so milk out the doe, give the shots...no more than 6cc in one spot, and by the time she makes more milk, it'll be gone.


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## usamagoat (May 2, 2013)

hi, i have a goat which is sick , she is coughing and white saliva is drooping from her mouth, she did not eat this morning, and is really weak, she also cant move left. her milk has gone while i just milked her yesterday . does anyone know what this sickness is or what i can do to help her. thank you


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

usamagoat said:


> hi, i have a goat which is sick , she is coughing and white saliva is drooping from her mouth, she did not eat this morning, and is really weak, she also cant move left. her milk has gone while i just milked her yesterday . does anyone know what this sickness is or what i can do to help her. thank you


You will want to start your own thread so more people see it and can help you.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

goathiker said:


> ... This ones easy. Tylan is eliminated from a goats body in a little more than an hour, so milk out the doe, give the shots...no more than 6cc in one spot, and by the time she makes more milk, it'll be gone.


milk 'this' goat? haha..fat chance. (for me anyways) It's not something I do with any of these goats..though I have done it. I don't have a milking stand..but I will tie the goat up and give her grain and I've had a couple of goats let me milk them..one I just helped to dry up slowly because her baby died and she was totally fine with it.

but this goat.. she kicks her back end like crazy if I try to even touch her in that area. Nothing is wrong down there..I've checked and she has nursed her girl for almost 6 mo just fine.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Is she even making very much milk anymore? A couple cups of milk isn't really going to change anything. A couple quarts would be different.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

no...none of these mixed breed goats are good milking goats..her little boobies are so tiny. Even the one that I helped dry off...I was told she was a milking goat and she certainly looked bigger..I was excited to get about a cup out of her.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's fine then. I'm used to my big milkers. That small amount of milk isn't going to change enough to hurt.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

So it won't just be concentrated in what milk she does have?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There will be trace amounts but, she's not making enough milk to carry much. It is very safe. Trace amounts in a couple cups is a lot less than larger amounts in a gallon. It will be fine. She can't concentrate into what she's not making much of.


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## jonara (Aug 30, 2011)

Okay..I understand now..thank you!


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## usamagoat (May 2, 2013)

Hi, can anyone help me i have a nubian doe, one of her nipple is very small and one of her teats are way bigger than the other, is this a sign of sickness or is it just normal please let me know ASAP bye


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

If she milks normally it could just be the udder and teats she was born to have. It could also be a blown out teat (somewhat common, it can happen by udder infusions, milk machines, etc) .

If her milk is lumpy, chunky or stringy that is most likely mastitis.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

usamagoat said:


> Hi, can anyone help me i have a nubian doe, one of her nipple is very small and one of her teats are way bigger than the other, is this a sign of sickness or is it just normal please let me know ASAP bye


You will get more answers if you start your own thread.


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## usamagoat (May 2, 2013)

ksalvagno ,how do we start our own thread, i dont know how


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Are you on a pc or phone?


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## usamagoat (May 2, 2013)

on a computer


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You should be able to go into the catagory you want to post in, then at the top of all the threads, and above the stickeys, at the top left of them there should be a blue button that says post new thread, or post thread.


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## usamagoat (May 2, 2013)

where is the category i can't see it im still new help!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

New Thread is a button at the top. When you click on "Health and Wellness" (or any other forum area), you see a whole bunch of threads you can click on. Above that to the left is the "new thread" button.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

usamagoat said:


> Hi, can anyone help me i have a nubian doe, one of her nipple is very small and one of her teats are way bigger than the other, is this a sign of sickness or is it just normal please let me know ASAP bye


How old is your doe? Was she born like this? I doubt if its an illness, unless it's all red and hot to the touch..... Have you milked her before, is the milk okay?


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