# Please get educated!



## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

I just finished judging a 4-H show. It is apparent that the majority of the exhibitors had not spent much if any time learning about their project. Basic parts were a mystery, no clue about breeds or diseases. I know there is an advancement program so I encourage leaders to make education a focus at least part of the time. It is discouraging to have to give red ribbons in showmanship because they don't have a basic working knowledge of their project. And yes in 4-H part of the requirement is knowledge.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, it seems like 4H is going downhill. I remember when you wouldn't dare go in the ring without knowing all that stuff.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I completely agree that the kids should be educated about the animals they choose to show. 

However, I am of the mind that showmanship is about "showing" your animal. In my opinion, questions are for separating out the top showmen. It drives me nuts when judges make showmanship into a quiz bowl. The kids are standing out there with their goats half asleep and the judge is just chatting up all the kids. Why even bring your animal to the ring? Just sayin'.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

You may also have some kids that are very good with animals, but HORRIBLE about answering questions on the spot. My two older kids would fit that bill (varying degrees of very high functioning autism). My daughter has an awesome sense of humor, but with serious topics, she will just bring me a note telling me what she wants to say rather than ask me. Middle kiddo takes a while to produce the answer. He wants to make sure he gets it right, and would rather not say anything at all than get it wrong. M yyoungest, the one that will most likely be showing my goats, would be the one to remember the answers and spout them off. But the older two, well, it will be interesting to see what they do when put on the spot.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Elissa, I agree. My son sails in those same waters of high functioning autism. We just finished a 4H show. If people approach him causually he could tell you all about goats, but when put on the spot in the middle of the ring his slate is wiped blank. 

If the show is anything like the shows around here. It's a rough week. Not only are the animals tired so are the kids. The goat show here is always the last day of the fair. The kids sleep terrible most of them not in their own beds. They have been bombarded by joe public. They have to be hyper vigilant about their animals because most kids have learned that a goat can become stressed out and fall ill. They have to worry about the public attempting to sneak their goats fair food, because after all a goat can eat anything, right? The kids aren't just judged the one day, they are judged all week long, with addition to quiz bowls. 

Remember they are kids and it's a learning process. Learn by doing.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Some of the questions ARE just basic knowledge that every kid showing SHOULD know. Animal parts are basics and are pretty much the same across species. Period. Knowing what your animal weighs when you enter the ring is an absolute MUST. Knowing what you feed your animal is an absolute MUST. Knowing the BREED of your own animal should be basic (and, yes, there are those that have no clue). The harder questions should be about separating top showmen. 

If you make it to Round Robin (or whatever it's called at your fair....where you get to show ALL species) then you better have an excellent working knowledge of YOUR project....especially at the Sr level. At this level you also need to have a BASIC knowledge of all the species. I don't think it's fair to ask someone who doesn't raise or show pigs to know how to read ear notches (yep, that was a killer at our fair!) or to expect a beef person to know goat breeds but you should have some basic knowledge of each species. 

Unfortunately, in a lot of clubs there is no leader for the project. And parents don't make their kids learn. There are books for each project that cover the basics up to the harder things. But those can be expensive. I bought a set when I was goat leader and made copies to give my kids. But....as a former leader....you also have to expect parents to make an effort to get kids to meetings and to make them study their stuff.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree with Erica... We live in the same area so the fairs are the same.. 
The one and only fair I went to was one of the most stressful weeks I've ever had! LOL! I worried constantly about my goats... I hated propel touching them after touching all the others.. (Esp. when we found out one herd had just gotten over soremouth!) we are judged all week on our herdsmanship.. Which includes our interaction with the public.. 
Now, before going into the ring for showmanship I knew the ADGA scorecard inside and out! I knew parts of the body ect.. This was my first ever time doing showmanship and I was in the sr class.. I don't do well under pressure so my mind went blank when I was asked the scorecard questions... I got them wrong, even though I knew them! I answered the basic knowledge questions right when others didn't.. But there were Less of those... I came in second to last... And I refuse to do showmanship anymore as I KNOW I don't do well under pressure and can't answer the questions even if i know them... 
That being said, I did very well on out goat test and other things.. 
But.. I agree that a good deal of kids don't even have that general knowledge that they should have.. And that surprised me at first..


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

BCG said:


> I completely agree that the kids should be educated about the animals they choose to show.
> 
> However, I am of the mind that showmanship is about "showing" your animal. In my opinion, questions are for separating out the top showmen. It drives me nuts when judges make showmanship into a quiz bowl. The kids are standing out there with their goats half asleep and the judge is just chatting up all the kids. Why even bring your animal to the ring? Just sayin'.


 I am a judge myself and yes showmanship is about showing your animals but really you need to know about the animal you are showing. That is to include body parts, vaccinations, diseases and whatever the judge needs to ask to separate the top kids. To many parents work the animal at home feed it and they kid just goes in teh ring ans shows a "trained" animal, so yes you NEED to know YOUR project inside and out.

I say take it as a complement that they judge is asking lots of questions, that usually means they are having a hard time deciding who to place in what order.

This year I know several kids that did hogs for the first time ever, and they were on top of their project and the judge never asked a single question, so they asked me Why should I even study if I am not going to be asked and see if I know my project? Of course she was really just kidding.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I think that the question asking is great! And it gets kids to have to know these things if they want to place well! But, I'm also agreeing that some kids, (like me) have a hard time when under pressure..
I knew a few people who never took the time to learn about their project other then basic things... In our class we got asked "what is it called when a goat has both male and female reproductive parts" (a hermaphrodite(sp?)) i knew that one, but a few kids in my group were complaining about the question and saying things like "why do they ask questions like that?!" Ect.. ect.. Really, if they just took the time to learn simple things, it wouldn't have been a hard question... Same thing with the quiz bowl questions as they got harder.. They complained at how hard they were even though, really, if they learned about the simple things, would have been simple questions..


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

OK, I'm not talking tough questions but basic health and breed questions. I judged them on proper handling but went to questions to tie break and really see who knew something about their project. I didn't grill them, but started off with "tell me about your goat", then went on to a couple of breed specific questions. They should all have been able to answer them.

And the TOP handler knew her stuff - both showmanship and questions. I asked about a disease or illness that she would be concerned about. She immediately went in to a description of mastitis and why that would be a major concern for her dairy goat. 

The purpose of 4-H is not only handling the animal, but knowing how to care for it - not have the parents doing it. It isn't an open show. It is 4-H and a big part of it is about education. But I guess that is my bias as a teacher.


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## VincekFarm (Jun 27, 2011)

I am a 4-Her who takes care of her own goats! (What a surprise right? ) 
I always do well in showmanship because it's obvious that I know my animals. 
Some kids are only in 4-H because their parents make them. Their parents will bathe the goats on showmanship day, clip them and whatever else. All the kids do is drag the goats into the ring. It's frustrating for me to see them doing nothing and not even contributing to "their projects". 

I was in a showmanship class once. The girl didn't know what color her animal was or what type of ears it had. Yet she still placed over me just because Alpines were the judge's favorite breed. Sometimes there is fault on both sides..


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

My daughter is a 4-Her and our county fair was last weekend. She has shown poultry for years and our 4-H poultry judge is TOUGH. Great with the kids, but tough. The kids have to know how to handle the birds, yes, but the amount of knowledge they need to master is impressive, although it is graded by age/experience so it is appropriate to their level. SO, this year she showed her first Boer market wethers. Just like she does for poultry, she studied goat stuff like crazy -- diseases, parasite resistance, breeds, anatomy, etc. -- and the livestock judge did not ask a single question. Not one. She won the novice showmanship class, but I was surprised to see that he never asked a single question of any kid in any showmanship class in any breed or species. I get that it's not a quiz bowl, but I think I would have been more satisfied if he had at least asked the kids about their animal's rate of gain, the feed they use, their worming program, or SOMETHING to show these kids actually bothered to learn about their project animals. Just my 2 cents. I'm sure she'll study just as much next year and it's not like it's a bad thing to have all that knowledge stored away!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

On our circuit the kids have a slight idea of what's going on but if you dare ask abot diseases, bio security, antibiotics, digestive health or anything like that they freeze up. Here we have plenty of leaders and educational opportunities but the kids and parents get lazy and don't do it. Instead the parents do the project and the kids show... that's basically how it goes. I wish all judges would some type of questions. Personally when I start judging I will sort hard choices on questions but everyone will have a couple basic knowledge questions. Bottom line is the project is raising an animal... you should know why that tag is the ear (or at least what it's called), what they eat, breed and body parts at the minimum. Seniors should be answering tough questions though... After all they are typically starting their own herds and breeding animals so it makes sense for them to demonstrate knowledge require to be successful in other avenues of livestock


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