# Nursing time/frequency dam raised



## Andrewjoseph (Mar 25, 2018)

Hello, I am new to kidding. I read quite a bit on here but cant find this detail.

We have some newbirn Nigerian dwarf babies and they dont appear to be drinking enough. They latch on and bump the udder with their head usually, but inly look like they drink for 5 to 15 seconds at a time. I see them doing this every sonoften when they are awake, but just cant tell if this is the way things are supposed to work.

5 seconds to 10 seconds or so seems like they will be running short on fuel in the coming day/days. 
Maybe this is normal, is it?!!!


Also, they seem to be sleeping most of the time. They get up and more around and venture out a slight bit, but usually are sleeping. Im trying to distinguish if they are acting lethargic or just behaving like normal newborns. 


Thanks for any help here!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Well first of all it's important to weigh them daily. If they are gaining weight, they are eating well. If they aren't gaining weight, or are worse -- LOSING weight, then you need to investigate further.

Depending on how old they are and their genetics can affect their behavior. If they are very very newborn then it may just take a bit more time for them to get used to their legs and will be up and bouncing in no time. Or, they may just be calmer goats, I've noticed some lines have babies that jump on their moms and bounce bounce bounce and others are a bit more laid back.

I would check their FAMACHA scores and take their rectal temperatures to be safe.

They are probably too young for coccidia, though you never mentioned their exact age.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Weigh them daily with a scale that weighs in pounds and ounces or pounds and tenths of pounds.


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## Andrewjoseph (Mar 25, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Well first of all it's important to weigh them daily. If they are gaining weight, they are eating well. If they aren't gaining weight, or are worse -- LOSING weight, then you need to investigate further.
> 
> Depending on how old they are and their genetics can affect their behavior. If they are very very newborn then it may just take a bit more time for them to get used to their legs and will be up and bouncing in no time. Or, they may just be calmer goats, I've noticed some lines have babies that jump on their moms and bounce bounce bounce and others are a bit more laid back.
> 
> ...


Just 2 days old. I just weighed on electronic food scale, should be very accurate. This sounds like a great poece if advice.

Does 5 to 10 seconds of nursing at a time seem normal?
Sleeping 85 percent of the time (im guessing)? Is this normal?

Dams were wormed with commercial wormer on delivery day and each day 3x day since with herbal dewormer.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@Andrewjoseph - the brief and frequent nursing sessions sound normal as does the sleeping for 2 days olds. But now you should have kids that are bouncing more frequently. Is all good?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Good luck, fellow goat lover! Did we say Welcome? The 15 seconds sound totally normal to me, but, as said, by now they should do this:
:run: at least sometimes every day! Do they?


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

Mine are doing the same and I'm very worried about them. First time newborn goat mom here, they were born wednesday and it is now friday. I haven't seen them eat but maybe 3 times today for 10 to 15 seconds at a time. They look like they just dont feel good. I was able to get milk out of the mom and syringe get feed them and can no longer do that. I have no idea what to do and its suppose to be 3 po degrees tonight....the other baby goat has done wonderful that was born a day before and is total opposite of them....


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@KSpringer - have you seen them poop? Pass the black meuconium and begin yellow newborn poop?

Check their temperature rectally with a digital thermometer and make sure they are 101.5-103.5 F

When you said you can't syringe them any more what did you mean? The dam is still producing milk right?

Don't forget to deworm your does that have just kidded.


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> @KSpringer - have you seen them poop? Pass the black meuconium and begin yellow newborn poop?
> 
> Check their temperature rectally with a digital thermometer and make sure they are 101.5-103.5 F
> 
> ...


Yes i found it in the pen so they have passed the yellow. I was using a clean medicine syringe after getting milk from the mama and using it to help feed them, but I can no longer get milk to come out. Yes they have been dewormed. I will check their temp now.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Sounds like the source of the issue might be the dams udder. Do the kids have full bellies? Did they bump her udder a lot when they were drinking?

Is her udder hot to the touch? Any signs of mastitis? Udder big and tight? Have you made sure to get the plug out of the way? Is her colostrum super thick?

You might have to pull the kids for now. Offer them whole cows milk until you can figure out what is wrong. Then try and milk the doe again a few hours later and see what you can get.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Does her udder feel hot, swollen, hard, lumpy? Or is it empty?

She was dewormed after kidding? Before doesn't count.


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

SandyNubians said:


> Sounds like the source of the issue might be the dams udder. Do the kids have full bellies? Did they bump her udder a lot when they were drinking?
> 
> No full bellies. They bump alot and eventually they will get ahold and suck for maybe 10 to 15 seconds and then they are done and go back to laying down.
> 
> ...


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> Does her udder feel hot, swollen, hard, lumpy? Or is it empty?
> Not hot, not hard but does feel a little lumpy but not empty either.
> She was dewormed after kidding? Before doesn't count.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Hmmmm...Short frequent spurts of nursing are normal, but laying down immediately after is not.

The milk appeared normal when you milked her for syringe feeding? 

Definitely don't offer milk replacer without ensuring their rectal temps are over 100*F

Are they standing in a hunched manner like perhaps their guts hurt?


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

Yes, milk seemed normal. They are standing okay and they do walk around a bit. I was concerned because they just seemed a little weak and lethargic, they breathe normal then one will breathe somewhat fast and has a grunt when doing so but then goes back to breathing fine. Brought them in over night, I'm going to take them back to mama and see what happens! Their bellies don't look full but they dont look empty neither. So perhaps they are fine and I'm just being overly worried.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Did you see the birth? Were they breech?

I'd give a 1/2 cc injection of b-Complex subq to each of the kids. Did the doe have selenium during pregnancy?

Post some photos of the kids standing when you can. You should definitely be seeing hopping and climbing behaviors on day 3 and 4


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

KSpringer said:


> Yes, milk seemed normal. They are standing okay and they do walk around a bit. I was concerned because they just seemed a little weak and lethargic, they breathe normal then one will breathe somewhat fast and has a grunt when doing so but then goes back to breathing fine. Brought them in over night, I'm going to take them back to mama and see what happens! Their bellies don't look full but they dont look empty neither. So perhaps they are fine and I'm just being overly worried.


You can let them stay with their dam and still supplement bottles. They do not have to leave mom. . A lot of people use whole (the red topped container) cows milk from the grocery instead of replacer. So e kids do fine on replacer but a lot do not.


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> Did you see the birth? Were they breech?
> 
> One was breech that I know of.
> Thanks for all of your help to me I greatly appreciate all of it! The kids are totally different today, running/jumping around and eating plenty!
> ...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Glad to hear they seem normal today!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice and glad all is better.


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## KSpringer (Feb 29, 2020)

They are still doing wonderful and so happy


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/nursing-time-frequency-dam-raised.207881/#post-2361921
Sounds like mastitis to me. Not good for eating, and medicine needed for the mother. Sorry for the extra work.


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## J4Julz (Mar 3, 2020)

Glad to have this info available.

@SalteyLove or anyone else who might be watching this thread, tho I know it is older...

My second does' kids (2 days old today) just aren't as bouncy and hungry to nurse like the first kids were (born last Thurs). They don't seem to be filling out like I would expect, so I gave B complex gel (it's all I could get) and gave them a bit of milk replacer in a bottle, while also milking dam to make sure she wasn't plugged or overly full or suffering mastitis.

She had Se & E while pregnant, again at kidding, B complex gel, and dewormed this morning. She seems fine, both teats work, took to being milked ok, and I got the kids to nurse a bit on each side. They just don't seem to be driven to nurse, and do rest a lot. I made sure they nursed at birth to get their colostrum, and they are pooping yellow milk poops, got the meconium out already (found in pen), and peeing a fair amount when they get up from a nap.

I saved the momma's milk, and will offer that in a bottle after a bit, but am hoping that they get with the program and drink up by themselves. I am able to milk if necessary, but would prefer not to.

Question: Weighing- how? do you put them in a sling and weigh, or try to balance on a digital scale? Maybe put a plastic bowl on the scale and zero it, then place kid in bowl? seems funny but might work. There has to be a better way, right?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

J4Julz said:


> @SalteyLove or anyone else who might be watching this thread, tho I know it is older...


I get also old threads under "alerts", if I have added to them.


J4Julz said:


> Question: Weighing- how? do you put them in a sling and weigh, or try to balance on a digital scale? *Maybe put a plastic bowl on the scale* and zero it, then place kid in bowl? seems funny but might work. There has to be a better way, right?


That is how many people do it. The kids look very cute in the bowls!


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