# Old doe with runs



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Bootsie is my 13 year old pygmy/nigerian doe
She had a few days of green diarrhea a week ago after she pushed her way to the feed pan that held 2 cups of Dumor Sweet goat and 1 cup of alfalfa pellets, I let it go 2 days before I dosed her with Pepto, same hay and no other feed changes. She had probiotics as well.
Her appetite is that of a typical "starving goat".... she goes to pasture, eats her hay and always begs for feed which she usually does not get.
Boots is boney,always has been a doe with more of a barrel than fat, has been wormed after a fecal showed stomach worms.
Poop firmed up after the one dose of pepto and now today is back to runny green, I checked a fecal and saw no cocci or other eggs. I dosed her with pepto again, I'm at a loss here... she is the only one with diarrhea
She has no temp, has been retired from breeding for the last 5 years, lids are a light pink and her appetite is good.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she could be struggling with Salmonellosis ..perhaps Bacterial diarrah ?? not the color you expect..but its a goat lol..they never go by the rule book  but since you ruled out worms, no enterotoxemia...

here is a quote from goat-link.com

This disease effects 3 age groups: 1 week old babies, kids at 2-8 weeks old and adults. Prognosis is grave to guarded in order of age, adults having the best prognosis. Young baby kids will have a black tarry sometimes stringy and blood streaked diarrhea. Newborns may die in the first 36 hours of life with little or no signs (there may be signs of depression). Occasionally gaseous stomach or pain in the gut or diarrhea may be seen. In older kids, the onset of depression and anorexia is sudden, followed by a profuse, watery foul smelling yellow to greenish-brown diarrhea. Fever as high as 107 may be present. Affected kids quickly get severely dehydrated, weak and go recumbant. Some may die within 8 hours of onset of diarrhea , most die within 24-48 hours. Fever usually subsides after 24 hours and becomes sub-normal as the baby becomes shocky begins to fail. Adult form is more sporadic, with less chance of morbidity. Adult goats become acutely depressed, anorexic and febrile developing a very watery, foul smelling greyish, or yellow green-brown diarrhea. Rapid dehydration and weakness develop and death can occur within 24-48 hours. The chronic form of the adult disease, has similar but milder symptoms. Recovery with recurrent diarrhea can bring the goat down slowly eventually causing anemia and emaciation. 
For treatment, other causes of scours need to be ruled out first. Treatment should consist of rehydrating and correcting electrolyte imbalance, paying attention to potassium .. sodium bicarbonate and potassium can be supplemented to the electrolyte solution. Supplemental glucose is also very helpful. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs can be used (Banamine) for treatment of shock and alleivate pain. Water soluble sulfonamides and tetracyclines are most useful. Isolate affected goats and keep warm. This disease can be transmitted to humans, use caution and gloves when treating and wash hands after treatment and contact.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She drank 2 quarts of the weak kool aid water I took up at bedtime, is eating hay and was begging for a cookie... I gave her more probiotic paste and washed up her backside as best I could as she was not having anything to do with that.

All goats are eating the same pasture etc., she is missing 2 of her molars and I notice at times she has trouble chewing the flaked hay cubes they get as treats. I do have Sulmet as well as DiMethox for sulfa drugs, Pen G, Duramycin 72-200, as well as Scour Halt. This doe has only had aspirin for arthritis pain in the last 6 years, always has been a very hardy girl and only recently has needed help with Ivermectin.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Poor gal...My Saanen who is 12 has gone down hill a bit too...has trouble keeping weight on...Ive added flax seed to her daily ration to help with her skin, and add a healthy fat for her old bones..flax, msm and daily aspirin all help...
You can try neomycin to see if it helps her runs, the sulfa drugs might help as well.....I would def. give her cd antitoxin until she clears up..
once she is all dry and you are ready to start the flaked hay cubes..you can soak them a bit to help her chew...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Try BioSponge. http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Bio-Sponge-Paste/252-1400.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ive never used Biosponge.. might have to get a tube and check it out...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Started using it in the alpacas and keep some around for the goats. It does work.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I read up on it some..sounds like a good product to keep on hand..Im going ot order some


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Bootsie is really got me very worried... she's been a boney looking girl since her first freshening 11 years ago, now she literally looks like an old goat. I just got home from work and went straight up to her, she followed the others out the gate to the field and just stood there looking around, I picked her some of her favorite plants to eat and brought them to her, she ate what she could though it does seem as though she is having a very hard time chewing, afterwards her belly was jumping up and down as if in a spasm and she went back to the barn. Poop I saw inside from today was like logs but on her way back to the barn it was like squirts again and brown, all she had was hay today other than what I just gave her. She doesn't seem to be in pain at all and I know my Boots, when she's hurting I can tell, she laid her chin on my shoulder as I rubbed her belly and scratched her ears, content with my touch. I think my old girl is getting ready to leave me


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry Liz...I know its painful to watch them feel bad. are you giving cd antitoxin? stomach spasms could mean rumen upset....you can try Milk of magnesia as well...Have you seen her chewing a cud well with her bad back teeth? might be she cant chew enough to create the "baking soda" she needs for rumen function..could try a baking soda drench..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sorry Liz. That is the hard part with older animals. I know you are doing your best for her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, prayers sent.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Boots got a treat a bit ago... I figured since she seemed to have a hard time chewing and her appetite is great, I put a tablespoon of the feed I give my milkers in my hand...16% sweet with added alfalfa pellets, she spit the alfalfa pellets out and swallowed the rest without chewing. I saw her poop again and it was more formed and green, not liquid. She went and rubbed her head against the doorway as she usually does and laid down. She started chewing cud. I made her some oatmeal with a touch of molasses and 2 quarts of Bounce Back electrolyte water... she sucked down a quart, this has Sodium Bicarb in it too and had 4 big mouthfuls of the oatmeal... She went to the bucks fenceline and pee'd which she only does when coming into heat, went back and laid in the shade. She has baking soda available and I saw her go at it. I just watched her pick at the long grass along the fence as well as some clover and chew it seeminly fine.
I do have the CD anti toxin, I got it on Thursday in the mail from Hoeggers... I'm not sure if I should use it though because the ice pak it came with was warm and the med in the bottle is dark.... I do have Specto guard , it contains spectinomycin.... can I give this to an aged adult goat for scours? I'm going to TSC here shortly to get more probiotic paste, anything else I should look into getting?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow..that is encouraging Liz : ) maybe her tummy is just upset...Ive not had C D Antitoxin go dark before...I tried contacting the manufacture before about a jar of it getting hot and never got a reply...I forgot to send another email about that lol!. From what I was reading about that biosponge..it has some good stuff in there too to help rid her of any toxins she may have or MOM...just something to help her as she deals with the rumen upset.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I got the Neomycin oral solution from TSC.... Should I dose her with it or give her the M.O.M. first? When I got back she was out at the very top of the pasture with the others  She's always the last to come back to the pen but when she saw me she was coming as fast as she could, ears up, tail up and wanted to see what I had for her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awe she sounds adorable. and active which is great,, so what ever you are doing is helping : ) 

if it were cd antitoxin and neomycin I would do both...with MOM im not sure it would be much different..I think I would still do both ..they do such different things...I would also give probios paste about 3 hours after the neomycin to keep that good bacteria coming..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If your CD Antitoxin came warm, I would not use it. I just don't like to take chances on stuff like that.

I would definitely give her the Probios once a day till whenever.

Has it been really hot? I'm wondering if just having electrolyte water out for her would help too. We have been in the 90's with high humidity and I would think that it would affect the goats to be in that 24/7. Especially an older gal. I'm wondering if your problem is heat stress.

When it is that hot, I always keep a bucket of electrolyte water out along with the plain water. At the end of the day, the electrolyte water is always gone.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It has been in the low 90's here the last week or so...and extremely humid, I have frozen pop bottles in all water buckets in the mornings but by the time I get home from work the water is very warm, I have tried gatorade in the water pails but that just seems to draw bugs 
For an old goat with a sick belly, her appetite hasn't decreased, she was begging at the gate tonite as I bedded down Bink n Whimsey. I did get 20cc's of M.O.M. into her... that was not fun, I figured she'd enjoy the raspberry flavor. I left her and Foxy with full hay feeders and fresh water... she was picking when I shut the light off. 
Tomorrow I hope is brighter...
I picked up a bag of Goat Balancer by Manna Pro... similar to Calf Manna but has added probiotic and vitamins and is specific for goats, it's small pellets too so she may have an easier time with eating it...I hope the MOM works, I really ticked her off and washed her boney backside before I gave her the yucky stuff, she'll forgive me but I really hope that this clears up PDQ


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..she sounds like a hoot...i hope she feel better tomorrow...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I just use the horse electrolyte. But you could even use the goat electrolyte. I do 4 scoops with a gallon of water for doing the electrolyte proactively.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

heres that home made one...I would offer both electros and water..so they can choose..

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..

When I looked on the back of the electrolytes bag at ingredients the main ingredients were Sugars, Sodium/salts and Potassium along with vitamin and minerals..

Molasses is a sugar with Vitamins and Minerals

Of course the salts are hopefully self explanatory..

Apple Cider Vinegar contains potassium..

This is much cheaper than those tiny bags of electrolytes and usually you have these ingredients on hand.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Cathy... would this go into a gallon of water?
With the dose of MOM last night, and with what she's had to eat I am very pleased to report that there are no new ploppy piles  I washed her butt last night too and it's still clean... she ate another 5 big spoons of her oatmeal today, had a handful of the balancer pellet AND ate a good many plantain and dandelion that I picked her 
I haven't dosed with the Neomycin oral solution yet... not positive if it is dosed straight from the bottle or diluted?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Wonderful News Liz 

On the electrolytes..it calls for 1/2 gallon hot water..but if you want to dilute it more with a gallon that should be fine
Neomycin is straight from the bottle..no diluting : ) might not need it if she continues to improve : )


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Cathy... she was in the pasture tonite after we had a cooling rain shower... I hope the dampness of the browse doesn't cause a flair up of the poops again but so far so good and it's good to know that the bottle of Neo I got is dosed straight, the doseage for her weight says she can get almost 3cc a day for 3 days IF needed, this bottle will last me forever though!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes it does last : ) I would break up the dose as well..do 1 1/2 cc in the AM and 1 1/2 in the PM.cc.. I dont remember why I did it that way, I htink to keep a consistent amount in the system lol...must have read it somewhere..sure do need to learn to take notes lol...
At least if she has loose stools this time..you know why..wet grass


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