# terrible loss, possible terrible vet?



## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

I just lost one of my beloved packgoats to a urinary calculi. As well as feeling a great deal of grief I am wondering about how the vet handled the situation. Here's what happened in brief: at 4:30 my goat looked listless and didn't come to eat his dinner. I saw him stand to pee and just a few drops came out. I thought he might be obstructed so immediately took him to the vet. By 5 he was at the large animal hospital. My regular goat vet wasn't there. New young guy first did an ultrasound to see if his bladder was enlarged. He couldn't see anything. Then he sedated him and we laid him down so he could x-ray him. He couldn't see anything. Then he had me and the assistant flip him on his back and he catheterized him after cutting off his pisole. At that point my poor guy was groaning terribly. After several attempts the vet never got anything coming out of the catheter. So then he sent me home with him with a shot of banamine and some ace sedative saying maybe he would pass it on his own. It was a long terrible night and he died at around 4 in the morning. I am questioning why there wasn't more effort made by the vet to determine what was going on, whether his bladder had burst for example in which case I would have made the decision to euthanize him immediately. I later found out they could have drawn fluid from his abdominal cavity that could have informed us about the severity of the situation. I don't know why the vet didn't do this test. Additionally it seems like they should have at least kept him there overnight where they could provide him with some better pain relief. 
I am just wondering if it would be helpful to packgoat owners to have kind of a list in hand in case a goat shows signs of urinary tract blockage to take with you to the vet to help guide the testing/diagnosing/decision making process. Maybe one of you has this already and you can post it. In any case, I'm sure some of you have more experience than me, and I would really appreciate some advice on how to handle this situation at the vet's so if this happens again I can feel like everything was done to minimize the suffering of my goat buddy.


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds to me like the vet really didn't know what he was doing. It's hard to blame him too much when it sounds like he is young and inexperienced, and I know they don't spend much time on goats in vet school. With that in mind, it probably would be a good idea to have a list of things for the vet to do for a goat suspected of carrying stones. I think most vets would be grateful, since many of them might feel out of their depth. That sounds like a good idea for all of us. 

Once again, I'm very sorry about the loss of your sweet goat friend. I know you thought maybe he should have stayed at the vet's so they could do more to ease his pain, but there is something even more comforting than painkillers to an animal about being at home with people and barn buddies he knows. I'm sure you stayed right there with him all the time and your presence helped ease his passing. You did everything you could.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

My father was a vet 
He told me that he had a medical practice 
he told me he was not perfect and hoped with practice he could help others.


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks for your kind words. It really helps. I am still wondering whether things would have actually been better had I been on a trip when the blockage happened, because I think the vet, being new, was confused about what was happening with my goat. He told me he thought the goat's groaning and inability to stand was the anesthesia he had given him. If there hadn't been the anesthesia confusion it would have been clear that he needed to be put down. I don't know how I would have done it but I would have figured out a way. '

I admit part of my difficulty is that I had just put down my 17 year old dog two days before. Much as I loved her dearly, that was easier because of the relatively painless way she passed. It didn't feel botched. This did. This vet needs a lot more practice, but he's not going to get it on any more of my goats.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Am heart broken for your lose. Indeed it does sound like the vet didnt have a clue. Goats are still on the unimportant list as far as most vets are concerned. We went 8 years here without a vet. Most refused to see them at all. They are a difficult animal to diagnose and are often even more difficult to treat. The last time we used a vet here (almost 9 years ago) we had a dog attack (pit bull and a black lab) and it was terrible beyond words. We tried every vet in the area and finally had to beg the final one to come out. So we learned real fast how to do the vet work ourselves after that. Then earlier this year we had one of our top does come down with a terrible case of pneumonia and by luck or chance got in contact with a new vet in the area because everyone else was either busy or didnt see goats. We were excited to hear he owned goats himself. He concluded as we did, verified our course of action and even added a few things to do. As we have had to learn to be our own vets, having a professional who knows and understands goats gives us a overwhelming sense of comfort. We also have a back up vet line up as well. Though we know she is a pet vet with almost no knowledge of goats. But because we have researched and worked at being our own vet for so long, we know we can guide her in the direction. But at least she is willing to see them... granted at insane prices.

So, the only thing I can suggest to everyone is to lock into getting a good vet that respects the bond between goats and their people. Have a back up vet handy who at least you can guide and learn as much info about treatments on any ailments you want to be ready for in the future. Granted, UC can be a deadly issues even with a knowledgeable vet. But at least you will know you and your vet did everything you could. 

Its heartbreaking enough to have to go through something like this, but it makes it so much worse when you dont have a good vet to see you through it. Again, I am so sorry for your lose and equally sorry the vet failed to relate his incompetence at a time when it coulda mattered.


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

Dave thanks so much for your response. It is so true that we have to be super proactive by having knowledge and a plan of action when we go to the vet. I run a rescue for tegus (large south american lizards) and have done exactly what you suggested for them- found a local small animal vet who wanted to learn and was willing to work with me to develop treatments for them based on good advice from a distant vet who is a dedicated and generous reptile expert. I just didn't realize that packgoats are going to be so different, almost, exotic, to require such extensive grooming of the medical caretakers. 

I must admit, having packgoats has proved to not be for the faint of heart. I've had four goats for five years and have had three of the dreaded problems now: my dear old meat goat has CAE, my la Mancha almost died from eating mountain laurel on a pack trip two summers ago, and now a death from UC. I'm a super dedicated pet owner and read all the books and follow all the directions as closely as humanly possible and still the bad things happen. Makes me more than a little hesitant to say that packgoats are easier than other pack animals. Maybe I've just been unlucky.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I dont think you are unlucky, its just one of those things with goats. This last year we had more issues with so many different things, my other half was thinking the same thing. But we worked out of it, got a fantastic vet and even saved two of our top does, who should of by all rights, should be dead (one is Legions mom  and even Legion (my own packer prospect). So all I can say is, hang in there, they are worth the risk


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

Again thank you Dave and Nanno for your responses. I spoke with my regular goat vet yesterday about how this all went with the young vet who was on call and he agreed that there were problems with the decisions made and the outcome was certainly less than optimal. He said they will review their protocols for diagnosing these kinds of blockages and try to do better. He said part of the problem is my goat was so huge that nothing looked normal to the new guy. 

As for myself, I'm going to follow the "using does for packing" thread.


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