# Please Help - Is It Morally Right...?



## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

I need help. My gut is saying no but my mother and customer are saying YES!

My customer wants to breed my dairy goat to a meet goat and eat the kids. Since the kid would be 1/2 dairy, I don't believe he should eat the kids. 

I strongly believe in only eating goats that are bred for meat, and milking goats that are bred for dairy. If it is a mixed goat, I think it should stay on the dairy side. Please, please help me decide.


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## Green Mountain Farm (Dec 31, 2019)

Andie Harness said:


> I need help. My gut is saying no but my mother and customer are saying YES!
> 
> My customer wants to breed my dairy goat to a meet goat and eat the kids. Since the kid would be 1/2 dairy, I don't believe he should eat the kids.
> 
> I strongly believe in only eating goats that are bred for meat, and milking goats that are bred for dairy. If it is a mixed goat, I think it should stay on the dairy side. Please, please help me decide.


I have difficulty eating or even raising meat goats because I am so attached to them. 
It won't hurt anyone to eat dairy meat, at least as far as I know.
I am assuming it's your buck that is being bred not your doe?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If he has adequate facilities and the goats will be well cared for and humanely processed, then I think you should allow it. Not all dairy kids are breeding quality and there certainly are not enough good pet homes in the world to keep them all for life.


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## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

Green Mountain Farm said:


> I have difficulty eating or even raising meat goats because I am so attached to them.
> It won't hurt anyone to eat dairy meat, at least as far as I know.
> I am assuming it's your buck that is being bred not your doe?


He actually would be breeding my doe and buck.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You have to look at yourself in the mirror every day..if it's really that important to you that they don't eat them or if you can live with the decision to allow it ...you have to answer to your conscience.
I wouldn't dream of telling you what's right or wrong...but make sure you can live with yourself no matter what you choose.


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## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

GoofyGoat said:


> You have to look at yourself in the mirror every day..if it's really that important to you that they don't eat them or if you can live with the decision to allow it ...you have to answer to your conscience.
> I wouldn't dream of telling you what's right or wrong...but make sure you can live with yourself no matter what you choose.


I praise you, thank you. I feel your answer is best. Several people have given me good advice whether its right or wrong, but you are the wisest of them all. Thank you so, so much!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

First, you dont really need to post the same thread twice
Like what I said on my last one, there is nothing wrong with eating kids raised for dairy. Some people swear by it and love doing half crosses because of it. Do you think all the beef products you find at the store come from just beefers? A lot of it (frozen dinner types, ground types meats) come from dairy kill cows/calves 
If they are being raised and slaughtered humanely then I don't see an issue


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## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> First, you dont really need to post the same thread twice
> Like what I said on my last one, there is nothing wrong with eating kids raised for dairy. Some people swear by it and love doing half crosses because of it. Do you think all the beef products you find at the store come from just beefers? A lot of it (frozen dinner types, ground types meats) come from dairy kill cows/calves
> If they are being raised and slaughtered humanely then I don't see an issue


I don't really like how you worded your answer. I am a young girl with a huge heart just looking for the right answer from different sides/views. If you don't like my question or where I post it, please move on.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Im sorry if my reply sounded harsh for where to post as that was not my intention, my intent was to be helpful. Generally, you only need to post one thread per topic. So for future reference (as we were all new here too)


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## Grassland Goats (May 24, 2018)

I don't know in goats but in cows the dairy cows meat is a ton more chewy and harder to eat. I wouldn't eat the half and half personally but if you like your meat a little chewier it would be an awesome test or experiment. I personally have bred a dairy goat to a meat goat we didn't keep any, but I loved seeing all the colors come out.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I have a question since I do raise meat goats. Im not a dairy person. But am I correct that when you have a dairy buckling..you sell him for meat? Or get rid of him if hes not Super Dairy! Ive heard horror stories..
So that brings me to an answer. IF you choose to breed the cross..if its a buckling..he can have it. A Doeling...nope you get to keep her! Would that help? Since you want dairy?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Andie Harness said:


> I need help. My gut is saying no but my mother and customer are saying YES!
> 
> My customer wants to breed my dairy goat to a meet goat and eat the kids. Since the kid would be 1/2 dairy, I don't believe he should eat the kids.
> 
> I strongly believe in only eating goats that are bred for meat, and milking goats that are bred for dairy. If it is a mixed goat, I think it should stay on the dairy side. Please, please help me decide.


Ok. If this customer is buying your animals. Once you sell them you no longer have a say in anything about them. Period. If you are not paying to feed and take care of them... they are your parents animals and they truly can do what and how they want with them. There is no need for you to make your parents life miserable because you do not like their decision. They are the adults.

A lot of meat breeders breed a dairy and a meat animal. It boosts the meat breeds milk supply to feed the kids and sometimes gives the doe a better mothering instinct. We have and will continue eating our dairy goats. You cannot keep them all and right now we do not have space for meat goats. So yes if my little mini nubian buckling is not sold as a wether will go in our freezer. Meat is meat unless we are talking buck then that is different. You are likely to get an off taste with a stinky buck but maybe not too.

I think maybe your issue with this is that you do not like the eating of the meat not the division of dairy vs. meat. Or you think that all of your dairy animals stay completely dairy on a "little house on the prairie" farm and never go to market or as freezer fodder. What do you think people that may buy from you do with kids that they cannot sell or use to breed? Or hit a hard spot and need meat to feed their family? On our farm everything no matter what comes here or is born here has a purpose. We do not treat the meat livestock any differently than the ones that stay. They get the love, care and attention everything else gets here. When the time comes they have one bad second but are still treated respectfully until they are long gone from here.

There is no need in chastising someone because you do not like the answer they give to you. You came here asking for opinions and you are getting them. Different people feel differently about things. You do not like the idea that your dairy animal may be bred to kid for meat purposes or that they may be humanely dealt with for meat. Others do not have that issue.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Moers kiko boars said:


> I have a question since I do raise meat goats. Im not a dairy person. But am I correct that when you have a dairy buckling..you sell him for meat? Or get rid of him if hes not Super Dairy! Ive heard horror stories..
> So that brings me to an answer. IF you choose to breed the cross..if its a buckling..he can have it. A Doeling...nope you get to keep her! Would that help? Since you want dairy?


Some do sell dairy wethers for meat and others as pets. But you do not know truly what happens in the end sometimes. People will buy a wether and say it is for a pet but just not want to say yea we are gonna make freezer fodder out of him because the seller seems like that is a horrible thing to do. Also dairy wethers sell cheaper than meat wethers... or at least around here they usually do. If that makes sense?


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I know you have a tough decision on your hands and people on here have given you some good advice. I will say that I know a dairy breeder that hates the thought of people buying her wethers just to butcher them so she prices them higher so that doesn't happen.

I am trying to understand the situation better. Is this buyer asking you to breed one of your dairy does to a meat buck and then buying the kids to butcher them? That seems like an incredible waist of everyone's time. If they want meat kids why not buy them from meat intended stock? Or buy their own dairy doe and meat buck?


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

Honestly, I have considered trying to cross breed my dairy girls for meat kids. It makes since to me (except that my 2 dairy girls are retired) the concept being simply I could get milk from the moms and meat from ALL the kids and don't have to home or rehome anything after the fact. But truthfully a mixed doe might not produce enough milk to be a good dairy doe, and the bucklings are usually sold either intact or wethered in which case they go to meat, or sometimes as pets and grazers. If I was breeding a goat to grow my herd (as I am with my boer does) yes I would certainly breed dairy to dairy and meat to meat, but if you have someone interested in meat kids, but don't care if it's mixed breeding a meat buck to a dairy doe gives you milk for the year, money in your pocket, them meat, and you don't have to worry about feeding extra heads that you might not need on your farm or in your herd at the moment. Remember your worried about saving the kids for future breeding any buckling would have limited use unless someone wants a mixed buck or wether pet, and again the doelings might not be good milk producers which wouldn't benefit you in the end. Sure you could get luck and get good milking does out of the mix, but chances are good that milk with always be much less then what the dairy moms could produce.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

You must look within yourself. Your consciouns mind and heart will guide you. My sheep are nameleess and are camped far from me. My goat is right by my house as well as my chickens and they have names. I could personally not eat a named animal. It is personal to you.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

My LaMancha and Mancha/Togg dairy bucklings are all sold for meat. They are purposely raised for each holiday that ethnic groups want goats for. 
The 2 Ramadan bucklings I raised were really nice this year. Blemish free, shining with health, and beautiful colors. They brought $180 each. 
The 4th of July bucklings and doelings should do pretty well too. They will be perfect milk fed kids right on time. 

I'd much rather sell them for meat than find out later that they lived a miserable life tied to a dog house being a "brush goat".
Dairy goat meat isn't any tougher than meat goat meat as long as it is handled properly. It is leaner so needs cooked more like venison. 

Buck meat doesn't sour unless you don't skin properly and/or neglect to wash the hair off before gutting.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

At the dairy all the bucklings and cull doe kids went to butcher for ethnic groups. They didn't bring a ton but they were all cared for until the very end and the people who bought them was very grateful for the meat. Any doe that I want to keep, say a doe with parrot mouth, great milker but not a trait I want to pass down I would breed to a meat buck so the doe could continue to milk but the kids could go for a slightly higher price.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well to answer your question yes it is morally right.
But you are really going to have to sit down and think about things if your going to breed goats. I know your thinking about if she has doe kids, but we can’t count pick what they have a ultimately your going to have to figure out what to do with buck kids. There’s only so many bucks that get to stay bucks, and a 50/50 meat/dairy is not going to be most people’s first choice. Pet wethers are a dime a dozen and honestly full sized wethers have a hard time competing with those Nigerians and pigmys. Also let’s face facts. Most pets go to people who are new to goats, do you really want them to learn things on yours? As much as I fall in love with some of my boys and I so relieved that they end up being butchered. They never knew a hungry day or a day of agony. They went out being taken care of and loved.
Does you have more of a chance of selling to live out longer life’s, but yes some do end up being butchered anyways. Again only so many are needed and usually those are the best people can afford or have. A half and half really it does on one hand Is a improvement from just a dairy doe when it comes to meat, but anyone that REALLYwants a milk goat would probably rather a full dairy. They both eat the same and you get more milk from a dairy. Not at all saying no one will want them but again it does mean less buyers. I could also pull up goats on Craigslist and buy a whole herd of cross if I wanted to. I could pick and choose which I wanted. There’s a lot of them out there.
Basically though if you seriously can NOT stand the thought of one of your kids being butchered, and I am NOT being judgmental then you will have to figure out a way to keep and support all the kids or you just need to not breed. Personally if I were you and would rather them not be ate I would go find a dairy buck and breed dairy kids. But you are still going to end up with bucks and there’s only so many uses, but it would give your doe kids a better chance of being sold as production does


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

There's nothing morally or ethically wrong about eating goats bred for dairy. The goat doesn't know what ultimate purpose it was bred for. That's a purely human understanding. I have several friends who own dairy goats but breed their does to a Boer buck every fall so the kids will be better for butcher. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. 

I personally can't raise kids to eat because I fall in love with every single one, but that's not a moral dilemma. It's just a personal one. We did butcher one of our milk does one year because she had too many problems to keep breeding. She was pure dairy goat but her meat was fine. I cried the first few times I cut up her meat for chili, but it was very good chili.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

In my opinion, if I had a hard time with the thought of someone eating one of my babies, I wouldn’t be able to breed goats anymore. Once a baby is off my property, it is no longer mine to care for, it is the responsibility of the person who bought it. There’s a lot of goats in this world, not every human is able to care for the goat how I want, or keep it forever. If I had a problem with it, then the morally right thing for me to do would be to stop bringing more goats in to this world. Goats are a meat animal and there’s plenty of people who see it that way.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Andie Harness said:


> I don't really like how you worded your answer. I am a young girl with a huge heart just looking for the right answer from different sides/views. If you don't like my question or where I post it, please move on.


Please keep it friendly and fun.

Goatzrule is correct, please do not put more than one of the same topic thread, it really gets confusing.

The other thread was deleted.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have to say, I feel the same way about goats for meat. 
Did it once, it broke my heart, have not butchered any after that.
Can't do it, but that is just me and how I feel. 

I hate the idea, no matter the goat breed, even though I have meat goats. 

I try really hard to produce show or breeder goats. But occasionally, I do have to sell some as meat. 
I makes me sad, as I helped them come into this world, sheltered, loved them, doctored them, made sure their health was good and fed them. 

It is tough when we have to deal with things like that, for people like you and I, who care about them and their futures, but it is part of life.

Do what you feel in your own heart.
If you do not want this to happen don't do it. That is your decision to make.


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## Oliveoil (Sep 3, 2019)

While this is a tough topic I think people are giving you wise answers. I won't give my opinion as it has already been voiced. However, remember being killed quickly and humanely is better than being tied to a chain in a "pet" home. I raise and show steers at my county fair. I love these animals and they are cared for exceptionally well. They are happy and healthy in the time that I have them. It does break my heart to sell them and I am unashamed to admit I cry about it. I once heard someone say that a farmer's job is to make sure they have a good life and a painless end. While, for example, I love these steers there is no way I am keeping a 1500 lb pet--absolutely no way it isn't what they are meant for. This same thing applies to goats. My family and I raise and show dairy and Boer X wethers and sell them. I personally don't see the problem of dairy/meat crosses. Their meat isn't any tougher whatsoever. There simply isn't room in the world for all of the dairy or dairy/meat wethers or bucklings.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Plain and simple is that there aren’t enough pet homes in the country to take bucks that aren’t suppose to be bucks. We wouldn’t be bettering any of the breeds if we didn’t cull the bucks that didn’t meet the standard. Therefore, butchering dairy or meat breeds is just a part of the breeding cycle.


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## Courtney De St Jean (Apr 18, 2019)

Do you personally pay for the goats yourself? Did you buy them? Do you pay for the feed? Do you pay for the vet? Do you do all the taking care of?


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I like how you put that @CountyLineAcres and @Oliveoil 
There simply are not enough pet homes and not enough good owners who have the animal's best intentions at hand. Right now in the country, we are seeing a fast rise in goat ownership, especially with dairy goats. There are more babies being produced then there ever have been before and quite frankly a lot of these are coming from poor quality unsound animals and "backyard" breeders or "puppy mills" pumping out flashy cute kids who fall apart in a few years (but they're cute right?) the same thing that is happening in the pet pig industry and lots of other industries. Just look at everyone panic buying chickens..come on people! 
If there was no "out" slaughter, you would see the same problem in the goat world that you do in the horse world. 
There are a lot worse things than death.
If you do not want to sell for slaughter that is fine and is your view. When I was young and starting out I had the same opinions, if that is the case then you should breed with a purpose so that the stalk you sell don't have a reason to be slaughtered.


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## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

Sfgwife said:


> Ok. If this customer is buying your animals. Once you sell them you no longer have a say in anything about them. Period. If you are not paying to feed and take care of them... they are your parents animals and they truly can do what and how they want with them. There is no need for you to make your parents life miserable because you do not like their decision. They are the adults.
> 
> A lot of meat breeders breed a dairy and a meat animal. It boosts the meat breeds milk supply to feed the kids and sometimes gives the doe a better mothering instinct. We have and will continue eating our dairy goats. You cannot keep them all and right now we do not have space for meat goats. So yes if my little mini nubian buckling is not sold as a wether will go in our freezer. Meat is meat unless we are talking buck then that is different. You are likely to get an off taste with a stinky buck but maybe not too.
> 
> ...


I understand that I would not have any control over the customers doing once the animal is in their hands. But, I will not sell my animal knowing damn well my animal is going for meat. They are NOT my mothers' animals, they are MINE. I am almost an adult, I didn't come here so someone could tell me I'm making my mother's life miserable. Please ask and don't assume. And I say please ask and don't assume, again, because my "issue" is not that the meat is being eaten. I'm OK with meat goats being eaten. That's what they're bred for. Dairy is bred for dairy and meat is bred for meat. I came here looking for a simple yes or no, not insolence.


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## Andie Harness (Apr 5, 2020)

Courtney De St Jean said:


> Do you personally pay for the goats yourself? Did you buy them? Do you pay for the feed? Do you pay for the vet? Do you do all the taking care of?


Yes.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

To be fair some of the so called dairy breeds are intended to be multipurpose, to fulfill more than one purpose on the limited browse of a small homesite. 
LaMancha, Nubian, and Toggenburg goats in particular are meant for milk and meat. Some Toggenburg lines still have their bonus of cashmere too. After a few years of purposeful breeding I'm finally beginning to get cashmere on my LaMancha goats as well.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

goathiker said:


> To be fair some of the so called dairy breeds are intended to be multipurpose, to fulfill more than one purpose on the limited browse of a small homesite.
> LaMancha, Nubian, and Toggenburg goats in particular are meant for milk and meat. Some Toggenburg lines still have their bonus of cashmere too. After a few years of purposeful breeding I'm finally beginning to get cashmere on my LaMancha goats as well.


Oh wow! I didnt realize lamanchas had "salvagable" cashmere!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Andie Harness said:


> Dairy is bred for dairy and meat is bred for meat. I came here looking for a simple yes or no, not insolence.


If you are looking for a simple yes or no answer, the answer is yes it is acceptable to eat a dairy animal. The trouble is that may not be acceptable in _your_ opinion. Based on how much it seems to be bothering you I think you have your answer.

And I mean no offense in this. I am just trying to help.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Sfgwife said:


> Oh wow! I didnt realize lamanchas had "salvagable" cashmere!


It's really hard to find purebred LM bucks that still carry the genetics. Dairy breeders like slick coats for convenience. 
I've got them up to 88% LaMancha and 12% Toggenburg. One doeling I have looks extremely promising she even has a top knot hair-do. The original Spanish Short-eared goats did have cashmere though so the project is still plugging along.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hey Andie. This is a touchy subject, because your heart is involved. Nothing wrong with that. And everyone on TGS has feelings too. For me. Age doesnt matter, shoot some of you young ones know alot more than I do about goats. And honestly, thats all we are talking about is goats. I think it boils down to a situation that you cant really stop. And feeling trapped is awful. I think everyone on here. Would help.you if they could. To me. You already made your choice. I dont know if your Mom or other person will accept your decision. I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Courtney wasn’t assuming, she was asking, and I’ll be honest I was wondering the same thing. Not that I thought that you were some kid mooching off your mom but that it really doesn’t matter what your mom wants you to do with your goats, because they are YOUR goats. No one else pays your feed bill, not me, George, Sally or Bill, so bottom line is it really doesn’t matter how we do things, how we feel, or what our point of view is. They are yours to do with as you wish. You asked a question and we were answering it and giving reasons why. Not to try and change how you feel but maybe to bring light to something you didn’t think of. No one is trying to change your mind, or attack you, I promise you. Moers is right, this can be a touchy subject. People who are ok with butchering their kids will feel like they are being told they are wrong and vise versa. But all it is is simply different points of view. And that really is my favorite part of this group and these people. We don’t all see things the same and we do things so very differently and it gives each other something to think about. 
So you don’t want your kids butchered? That is fine! You do what you can to make sure that doesn’t happen. No one is judging you. I won’t sell my kids to a pet home 9 out or 10 times. I won’t sell my kids to a home that they will be in small pens. These are my choices. Not everyone agrees but they are MINE


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

MellonFriend said:


> Based on how much it seems to be bothering you I think you have your answer.
> 
> .


This. To each their own, but if it's bothering you that much just tell the would be buyer that you would prefer that dairy animals don't go for meat and don't sell to them. You might feel rude, but as long as you word it politely, it is not rude. They are your animals, your breeding program, and you need to stand up for yourself and just learn to tell people "no," if that's what you think is right.


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## Angel A (Apr 4, 2020)

As a rancher not only operating a business but also using our animals to feed our family I can say.
5 yrs ago when we started the idea of eating anything we raised was hard for me to think about. As time has moved on and our business has progressed, that’s exactly why we are doing this...so that we can raise our own food and be able to know what we are eating and how it was raised. 
I have a small Boer herd and just recently bought a lone mini-Nubian....for the purpose of crossing her with my boers. Some people enjoy having a dual purpose goat, one that can be for milk or for meat.

I agree with Sfgwife, if you are not paying for the feed and care of the animals I feel like your opinion is irrelevant and your mom should do what she wants with the kids.
I feel like if I’m choosing to sell an animal to a customer I have no say in what they do with the animal once they leave our ranch and we have accepted their money.
If someone shows up to make a purchase and I doubt the care the animal will receive it’s my right to say I don’t think I’m selling animal x to you, but so far that has never been an issue for us. 
Don’t get me wrong, I have favorite animals that I would rather keep and breed than see them get ate, but at the end of the day we raise them for food and I know this.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Sfgwife said:


> Oh wow! I didnt realize lamanchas had "salvagable" cashmere!


They do and its really cool! My lamanchas grow the most insane hair out of any other breed.


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## Green Mountain Farm (Dec 31, 2019)

Andie Harness said:


> He actually would be breeding my doe and buck.


Oh, wow. If it was me, I wouldn't do it just because I couldn't. But that all depends on where you are at mentally (I have nothing against it, I just personally cannot butcher goats). But there is nothing wrong with it if you feel alright.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Simple..Your buck and your doe makes it your call. Do what YOU think is right. They're your animals.


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## GoatJoy (Aug 9, 2010)

Go with your gut. If you are having any hinderences at all in your heart about it, I don’t think you should.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Follow your heart.


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## Angel A (Apr 4, 2020)

GoofyGoat said:


> Simple..Your buck and your doe makes it your call. Do what YOU think is right. They're your animals.


She's a teenager...it's her moms decision!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Angel A said:


> She's a teenager...it's her moms decision!


thats where i have to disagree. When i was a teen or even younger I called all the shots on breeding of the animals I paid for. Of course mom told me how many i was allowed to have but who came and went and who i sold to was my decision as long as i was paying for them


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## Angel A (Apr 4, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> thats where i have to disagree. When i was a teen or even younger I called all the shots on breeding of the animals I paid for. Of course mom told me how many i was allowed to have but who came and went and who i sold to was my decision as long as i was paying for them


I don't think she's stated who pays for the animals. 
If she pays for them and their care and maintenance, then yes she should be making the decisions. 
Too many unanswered questions, So I'm walking away from this one.
We eat our animals.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

She has stated that she pays for them in prior comments


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is her decision then.


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## MagpieG (Mar 3, 2019)

Andie Harness said:


> I need help. My gut is saying no but my mother and customer are saying YES!
> 
> My customer wants to breed my dairy goat to a meet goat and eat the kids. Since the kid would be 1/2 dairy, I don't believe he should eat the kids.
> 
> I strongly believe in only eating goats that are bred for meat, and milking goats that are bred for dairy. If it is a mixed goat, I think it should stay on the dairy side. Please, please help me decide.


This has nothing to do with morality. If you eat meat, it doesn't matter if it's a dairy goat or a meat goat, unless you prefer the taste of one over the other. I had some bottle babies and a couple of cull does that I hung onto because I didn't want to sell them for meat. All but one had been pets. One man wanted to truss the does up and throw them into the back his truck. I wasn't ok with that at all. They all finally went to pet/brush homes but it took a long time. Just for the record, I vetted the people that bought them so I know they went to good homes. You have the right to decide what type of environment is suitable for your animals. Be aware though, not everyone is going to be honest with you when they take the animals you are selling.


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## gmjnmeg (May 21, 2019)

If you don't feel comfortable, don't do it. Everyone, customer, family, doesn't matter who, needs to respect what you feel is right.
This is how I would answer it. 
Do you butcher and eat the nanny goats when they can no longer produce?
Do you let them rest in their golden years and have the vet put them to sleep?
Are you okay with animals in their youth being butchered and eaten, objectively? (Ex: I don't eat veal.)
Who is going to be butchering the kid? Does it bother you how it's going to be done? 

If it's a question between meat or dairy, I think maybe that's not the ultimate factor. personally feel the other questions and the answers to them are more enlightening.


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## Nudanud (Mar 1, 2018)

I usually avoid these types of questions because it feels as if they are loaded specifically to cause divisiveness, but since I'm feeling rather philosophical this morning, I'll throw my two cents in.

The original question, the title even, is "Is this moral..." The fact of the matter is that morals are, by _definition_ subjective. Meaning only YOU can decide what your morals are for yourself. So either you are asking other people what their "morally guided" opinion on the matter is, OR you are trying to gauge if there is an _ethical _answer to your dilemma. Which would mean some sort of "social rule" of right and wrong on mixing breeds for purposes different than their "intended" uses.

Assuming you were actually trying to find an ethical ruling, I would opine two observations.
One: There are not enough facts about your current situation to ascertain an ethical standpoint because there is too much variability when you have 3 humans and only one side of the story (your word vs mom & customer).
Two: Judging by the 2.5 pages of responses from a wide ranging circle of goat enthusiasts and owners, there is no Standard of Ethics that guides the selling of goats (or any other animal really).

So really, your answer was simultaneously determined and damned from the get go. 
Your morals, your decision (which you already stated your answer within your question).
Ethical question and no standard to guide the ethics.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

:storkgirl:You have to do what's right, for you:storkboy:. But, keep in mind, a few things:
1 - If you're keeping goats for dairy, at some point, you will have to start selling the kids
2 - A cold, hard fact about livestock - once you sell an animal, it is no longer your decision about what happens to it. 
3 - Some people will simply lie. 
4 - Some people will start with good intentions (like keeping them as pets, or starting their own dairy or fiber flock), then something will go sideways, and they'll be faced with their own hard decisions. 

So, you have some long term, hard decisions to make. I typically strongly suggest you make these decisions before you begin the livestock journey, especially for those that must be bred, to keep to their purpose. Is a little late for that, in your case, but the fact is not everyone is interested in the dairy side of things, not everyone wants pets, and there are only so many petting zoos.


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

Green Mountain Farm said:


> I have difficulty eating or even raising meat goats because I am so attached to them.
> It won't hurt anyone to eat dairy meat, at least as far as I know.
> I am assuming it's your buck that is being bred not your doe?


I confess, while I can't control who does what with the kids I sell on our Goat and livestock website But when I get a call for a meat goat, I am out of goats. Sorry but it's the way I am. Twice this year during my 10 day sale stretch, 2 goats at a time left in a brand new, sticker just removed, $80000 Denali Pickup, Sitting in the back seat with the Proud new owner while her husband drove off. No table goat there. Lol


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Unfortunately there's not always that buyer lol. Depending on your area and situation. 

If "this" goes on much longer I'm going to end up butchering my 4 month old 4th of July kids for the people who can't feed their children. To me that is morally correct.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

I’m not sure I understand why it would be immoral to sell a dairy bred goat for meat vs a meat goat. The goat doesn’t know whether it is dairy or was bred to be on the dinner table. We keep a dairy breed, and don’t harvest our own for meat. Yet. With the Nigerian Dwarf, we’ve not had problems finding homes for wethers as pets. However, if we do run into problems, our backup plan is to harvest them. They’ll have a great life, be well taken care of, and have one bad day. How is it morally different were we to raise Pygmy instead of ND? 

We have knowingly sold a dairy goat for meat once. He was an alpine/ND cross wether. He had horns. He was skittish and difficult to deal with. He had been part of a package deal. Due to his skittish nature, his horns, and the fact that we already had a wether and didn’t need another, we sold him. The people that picked him up were SE Asian and regularly consumed goat as part of their diet. They put him in the back seat of their nice Camry. They were efficient handling him without being rough. I have no doubt they knew what they were doing when they harvested him. Better than him suffering or being neglected as he would not have been a good pet for someone. I felt a little bad at the time but have no guilt.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Andi Harness. I have a young Doe. She was brought to me because I am good at raising young abondoned animals to adulthood. They are my own. I raise feed doctor shelter and stand up for them. I would never allow harm to them from human or animal. Personally I would never breed her because I know I would end up keeping the youngens. My husband who is in no shape or form an enthusiast to what I do, would sell off all my animals for food.
You must look into yourself. If this is a dilema, do not breed your doe for any other reason than raising a milk goat. If you are conflicted, stick to what you know. As you say. You are young. There will come a time when you are older and wiser, then you will make a different choice. Your heart leads you now. 
No judgment or criticism. There are so many opinions in this world, but the one that counts is yours.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

GoatJoy said:


> Go with your gut. If you are having any hinderences at all in your heart about it, I don't think you should.


I agree with goatjoy.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Nov 7, 2019)

goathiker said:


> Unfortunately there's not always that buyer lol. Depending on your area and situation.
> 
> If "this" goes on much longer I'm going to end up butchering my 4 month old 4th of July kids for the people who can't feed their children. To me that is morally correct.


This, while a very difficult thing on the human heart, is imho, the right thing to do. I'd like to think I'd do the same, if it was needed. I might struggle more if they were does, with a strong, pending potential for dairy (and more kids) because their milk is so nourishing, that in many cases, the health impact of longer term milk supply would outweigh the short term protein supply - but with bucks & wethers, there's no question in my mind.


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