# Trying to figure out what is happening with this doe



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

My friend has had an awful kidding season, and I just dont know what is going on with her last doe. 

Doe #1 - twin bucks, unassisted, all going well, 1 buck found dead in the paddock at about a week old, no symptoms, was fine an hour prior. 

Doe #2 - quads, all tangled up. First one small buck, weak but alive. Second large doe, strong and healthy. Third, small mummified fetus must have died a few months along. Fourth, GIANT dead kid, had been decomposing already for a few days. The next day, doe went rapidly downhill and died, my suspicion is that there was another retained kid for her to go down that quick and that hard. 

Doe #3 - quints. first tiny weak buck kid. Second normal buck kid, third normal doe kid. Fourth small mummified fetus. Fifth HUGE and starting to decompose again. Mumma doe is doing ok, she layed on #1 the next day and killed him  

Doe #4 has got us stumped. No proper kidding date for this one as she is a sneaky cycler, but going by the date that the buck was removed she would have to be at day 160 or even more. Yet has showed no signs of kidding. Belly is huge, wide and low. Udder is filled but not strutted. Ligs are low but not gone entirely. The doe is uncomfortable, groaning, occasional teeth grinding, slow to get up and move around, but still eating reasonably well and is recieving preventative preg tox treatment. She has lost condition which is worrying, although her eyelid colour is good and they are in the desert so dont tend to have parasite problems. My friend reckons she could feel kid movement until a week ago, she has not felt movement for a week. Vet is not keen to induce or to see her - just said wait and see. Under pressure from my friend, she gave her a "half dose" of "inductant" which my friend gave but did nothing, and the vet didnt give any details of what product it was - it was 2cc. 

Anyway got any idea on what on earth might be happening with this doe? And what, if anything, my friend should/could do? Vet services are reasonably limited out there but she does have vet access if needed. 

Any any ideas on what could cause the large litters with both early mummified, and full term decomposing kids?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you been having extreme weather that might be changing the composition of your forage so that the goats may be very deficient in certain minerals/vitamins? What about selenium and copper?

Good to "see" you on here again.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Is she giving her animals a balanced diet with a loose mineral supplement? Its amazing how much a deficiency in just a single mineral can cause havoc in a herd.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Any chance her herd could have picked up Q-Fever somewhere? Has she taken any of the dead kids to the vet for testing? Mummified kids are pretty common with toxoplasmosis, too. I ran into quite a few of both small and large, weak kids when I had my bout with Q Fever - no mummified kids, though.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

My garsh. That is no fun. The three things that come to mind for me are the three things I blamed for my first year kidding from hell. Vitamin E and Selenium deficiency. Imbalance of the calcium and phosphorus ratio. Too fat. Of course those are just shots in the dark for your friend's goats as they pretty much were for mine, though I did have a good kidding season in comparison after addressing those issues last year.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks guys, will try to answer your questions.

*Weather extremes - *not really. She is out in the desert so there is very little grazing/browse, just a few weeds, their entire diet is hand fed. She feeds good quality oaten hay, didnt flush feed this year, introduced grain and alfalfa chaff in the third trimester.

*Minerals - *she feeds the Pat Colby mineral mix and extra dolomite for the pregnant mamas.

*Q Fever - *no clue but doubt it as she runs a relatively closed herd

*Necropsy - *nope, she doesnt have access out there to a vet who would do the necropsy on the dead kids for her.

She did figure out yesterday that the buck didnt leave her property until May 12th. She is sure she pulled him out of the girls pen much earlier than that hence thinking the last doe was very overdue, but if for some reason she managed to get to his pen and back to the doe pen that still leaves her not due until the 9th October, so I'm hoping that might explain why she still hasnt popped.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did the buck come and go this year? Maybe the buck brought something in.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I've had a doe who delivered a large stillborn, term buckling and 2 days later a mummified doe kid who appeared to pass at least 6 weeks prior according to the development shown.... I did see my doe get rammed by another which likely caused the death of the doe kid, the term buckling had the cord detached and had been entangled in the dead twin.

The number of multiples in the litters could be the factor in the term deaths...entanglement and the deaths occurring mid pregnancy could simply be because the doe's systems are not handling the large number of fetus'.....I don't have any other possible explanation because their diet and management doesn't seem to be lacking, I hope that your friends next kidding season is a better one.

The doe who is "over due" very possibly settled later than thought, I hope that she delivers healthy kids and soon


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

the buck came from my property, i didnt use h over any does but he did run with my.two bucks and nether of them have had any problems. he mated my fiends does then went to another property and that lady didnt have any issues woth kidding problems and he recently came back to my friend.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Pat Colby mineral mix is for horses and is grossly insufficient for goats. That is the first place I would make a change. There is no selenium in that mix and selenium deficiency is known to cause birthing problems.


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