# Pregnant doe off grain



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I posted about a doe that had strong smelling urine. She's been fine on that front.

Well now, she's not wanting her grain! She's eating her alfalfa hay, but barely got her to eat a cup of grain this morning, and this evening she ate maybe a cup.

I did pick grain up on Wed , this doe kind of turned her nose up at it, slowly picked at it, but did eat it. Another doe refused to eat it. Next day everyone was eating it normally except for this preggo doe.

It's a 16% pelleted goat feed. We have had this happen one other time, but again, next day they were eating it.

She is stalled by herself at night, I leave her about 1 1/2 cups in the evening, plus she gets a flake of alfalfa. She's eating the alfalfa fine, but basically just pushes the grain around then goes back to her hay. Usually the feeder is empty in the morning, but I'm really worried, it's not normal for our does to not want their grain.

Surely if something were wrong the others would protest too?

I did ask my husband to bring home a couple of handfuls of horse grain from work in the morning and just see if she'll even try it.

Temp is normal, I gave her a shot of thiamine earlier, I put probio powder over her grain and even some rice bran oil <the doe we feed it to LOVES the stuff>, but she didn't finish it.
Not sure about chewing cud, since she was sleeping, then got up to eat hay when I was just out there.
Oh, eyelids are nice and pink, I do think she had worms though, I wormed her about 2 weeks ago as she had eyelids that were a bit pale, they are fine now, and she did get wormed 2x.

Thanks for any help. I'm just not sure what to think or try at this point. She's due in 9 weeks.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I've never had an issue with any of my hoovers not wanting grain... they all act starved which I know they aren't.

She very well could just not have an appetite for the feed especially if she's filling up on the quality fiber and nutrition of the alfalfa hay.... try taking some of the leaf from the hay and crumble it on top of her grain ration, it may work to get her to eat some of it.

Also, if you have a good goat mineral available and she's willingly eating the good hay, I'd not worry too much, she knows what she needs and if her nutrition is met then she may just feel she doesn't need the grain.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

if she's heavily pregnant and going off her grain I would start treating for preg tox. 

imo it is never too early to start, I learned it the hard way.

some of mine have started on propylene glycol as early as 6 wks from kidding, and had it every few days until they kidded.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks I appreciate it Liz and Keren!

She's still not got an appetite for the grain, she only ate a little of what I gave her last night and 1/2 a cup this morning. It's possible she is getting full on the hay, but I honestly don't know? Typically she only gets alfalfa in the morning w/her buddy, and then in the evening when we put her in her stall. In between they do browse/graze but there just isn't a whole lot out there yet. I do notice when the other goats leave the outside hay feeder she'll go to it several times through the day to eat whatever they don't eat. 

Keren - could it happen at 9 weeks before due date? She isn't due until April 27th.

I am just so stumped. This has NOT been my week with goats, haha...
I am going to drench her with probios later, I forgot to do it this morning when I had the medical kit outside. 

She did eat a lot of the hay I gave her overnight. She didn't drink very much water. She does drink during the day, in fact I see her walk up to get a drink several times a day. 

I wonder if there is something we can at least give her to give her energy and some nutrition? I think I"ll try opening a different bag of feed and see if she still turns her nose up. Otherwise I thought about seeing if my husband could bring her a couple of handfuls of horse feed, if she likes it, maybe we can mix her pelleted grain with horse feed real good and see if she'll eat it that way?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

was it a new bag of feed that she started turning her nose up at?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

StaceyRosado said:


> was it a new bag of feed that she started turning her nose up at?


Sorry just getting a chance to get on line. Yes, it's from the new bags of feed I picked up Wed. Everyone else is eating it fine. This doe, and her buddy are the only ones that turned their nose up, but the other doe started eating it again the next morning.

I didn't put out much hay today since we were gone all afternoon and got home late. They were fed about 2hrs late and my husband said she ate 1 cup, but he normally doesn't feed <I had to cook/put groceries away>, so I'll have to go give her more when I go out in a little bit.

She usually leaves a few pieces she's never been one to lick the tub like the others, but we've never had this happen before.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

By a new bag do you mean a different brand or just a new bag of the same?
Since she is eating hay I personally wouldnt be too concerned so long as everything else is normal with her; normal for HER.
You can always give her some Bcomplex but so long as everything else adds up try not to worry.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

nancy d said:


> By a new bag do you mean a different brand or just a new bag of the same?
> Since she is eating hay I personally wouldnt be too concerned so long as everything else is normal with her; normal for HER.
> You can always give her some Bcomplex but so long as everything else adds up try not to worry.


Thanks Nancy! Sorry I meant that it's the same feed we always buy.
Hopefully I am just over worrying and nothing is really wrong with her. I am just so nervous about her. She's my son's only chance of homegrown fullblood babies from the buck we sold. Her buddy lost her babies prematurely <pretty sure she was butted as another doe had it in for her>. She lost beautiful twins, and well this is another first timer.

Thanks again, I am so glad I have this site to turn to for advice. I'm really hoping it's just she doesn't like this batch of grain. Fingers crossed!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

you know it might be possible at 9 weeks. The reason I say I learned the hard way is that I had a doe that just seemed a bit 'off' and a bit quiet, still was eating etc. but seemed a bit different, and it started about 8 weeks out. I didnt treat for preg tox thinking it was way too early. She remained the same until 2 wks before kidding when it hit really hard and she went down, treated her but it was too late and I ended up losing her and unborn quads (3 does, 1 buck). Speaking to several older breeders they said they would have treated with propylene glycol as soon as I noticed her acting a bit off. 

So after that I know treat early and dont hesitate to treat. It doesnt hurt and it just gives them energy. 

I would second the B complex shot and even a vitamin C shot, I tend to give these both along with probios any time I have a goat looking a bit off colour.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I had a nervous doe that would go off of feed every once and awhile -- we would give her probios and put some lavender on her nose to calm her, but I don't think nervousness is the issue. Sorry I can't be of more help


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks guys I appreciate it!

If the propylene glycol won't hurt her even if that's not the issue, how much should I give her? I see TSC has it. 
If for some reason she is lacking and perks up/changes after getting some propylene glycol, how often should it be given?
If I don't see any changes, I'd assume she's just fine and wouldn't need it too often?

Wouldn't the alfalfa hay give her plenty of calcium I also give her 3 tums 2-3x a week.

Thanks Danielle! She's not a nervous doe <her buddy can be tho'>. She's really laid back, which makes me worry about her even more. She seems normal, but ever since she was about 2 months pregnant she's more 'needy' and a lot quieter.


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## Artdrake (Feb 21, 2013)

I just learned the hard way too. Our biggest doe went off feed and acted like her feet hurt- we treated her aggressively but I didnt start in time. i had another doe that started to show signs so I started immediately and turned her around. Get Keytone strips from the drug store and try to catch some of her urine. If she has keytones in her urine start drenching without delay. You have to be aggressive. I made a cocktail of mostly goat calcium drench 2 squirts of nutidrench plus a little Karo syrup 60cc 2x a day. I also put a little Karo syrup in her water to encourage her to drink. Here is the link to some good info. 
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/ketoais-pregnancy-toxemia-101076/


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

did she eat the horse feed? or did your husband not bring any home?

I would open another bag and see if she is just turing her nose up at this one. Ive had that happen with does.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Well she's still not taking much interest. She did eat a cup this morning. I left 2 cups in her stall feeder with her this evening, I'll check on her in a little while to see if she's eaten anything.

I haven't tried a new bag yet. She turned her nose up to what we put in the trashcan which was 2 different bags  I will be opening a new bag in the morning, so we'll see.

My husband forgot to bring home the horse feed, so we didn't try that.

I am definitely worried, I mean, she acts fine for her, but not eating.... She eats through the day, but IMO it doesn't seem like enough to warrant her to not want her grain.

Pharmacy is supposed to call me back about price and ordering of keytones, they don't keep them in stock. I didn't hear back from them this evening.

I did drench her with a scoop of goat probiotics <the kind you get at TSC>.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

Tomorrow I could certainly get the propylene glycol, the horse supply store I went to get something for another doe doesn't sell it, so I wasn't able to pick it up today.

Should I also maybe consider getting a bag of sweet goat feed for her and mix a handful in and see if it gets her interested? I'm so worried about her not eating well.
I noticed TSC has a few different kinds, but I think Southern States has sweet feed too.

Tomorrow it's supposed to rain and rain chances the next few days so she'll be in her stall quite a bit - therefore I can leave feed with her 24/7.

Thanks for the wonderful help!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Candice, please read this article. It seems a little early for your doe to be getting Hypocalcemia, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

http://kinne.net/hypocal2.htm


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Tenacross!

She is due in almost 9 weeks.

This just started recently with her not wanting to eat her grain very well. 
She eats alfalfa in the am and pm. Clover/grass hay off and on too, but I try to get her to eat more of the alfalfa than the other hay during the day.

I'm just not sure what I should try first, never had this happen before. She seems okay otherwise. She ate a tiny bit of the grain I left for her at evening feeding time. I got her up and she stuck her nose up at the grain and went to munch on some hay.

I felt baby kick, before I only 'thought' I felt movement, but I am positive I felt baby this time <I don't normally check this early in pregnancy>.

I am just confused on what I should do first. I have a really tight budget this week, so I am wondering if I should try getting a good sweet feed to offer her a little/mix a little in her pelleted feed, and maybe propylene glycol to boost her energy? If no improvement then try adding in some more calcium?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

my feeling is that with the tums and alfalfa she should have enough calcium, and if you add in the propylene glycol even every few days it should be enough to keep her going. 

personally I dont worry about testing for ketones, thats just me though, if I see symptoms I treat. 

I would definitely get some CMPK or calcium drench to keep on hand, but I feel like getting the propylene glycol into her is your first step, then when you next get paid and have a little more cash to play with get some source of calcium to have on hand, as often preg tox and hypocalcaemia go hand in hand. 

At this point, let her eat whatever she wants. The most important thing is to keep her rumen going, and the hay is going to do that. You might also try offering vegies and fruit, rolled oats even. I'm waiting to hear back from my mum, she had a real battle with her doe this year going off her food including hay and we did everything. I have a feeling it might have been a similar time frame, maybe 8 weeks out, I'll ask mum to confirm. It was a lot of effort to keep the doe going with all sorts of odd bits whatever she would eat, but in the end she dropped a healthy single doe kid and she hasnt looked back, has been a great milker.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Hey Hoosier, just heard back from my mum, her doe was off feed with 12 weeks left to go! Here's what mum said when I asked how long Dotti was off feed for before kidding.



> 3 month! it was such a battle,now looking back,the only thing i didn't try was probiotics ,cause now if she looks a little off,i dose her up with 5-7 days and it works a treat
> 
> she would eat a few sheep pellets 1 day,the next she wanted only cracked lupins,the only thing that she always ate was globe artichoke leaves,i had to hand feed her everything else,then she ate human rolled oats,so i gave her as much as she wanted,always offered+left pellets during the day,but at night she got hand fed,also gave her vytrate,100 mls a day,eat ease paste every day,later on it was ketol,at some point she had some iron,plus that stuff under the skin[never made a difference in my opinion,just freaked me+her out]then i bought cabbage and other veg to help her along,she lost sooooo much condition,wasn't funny
> 
> oh and nutrimol every day too,surprisingly enough,pepples was a healthy 4.2 kg kid,was so worth it for me and the milk dot is making,if i pick her greens in the arvo,with kid locked up for 12 hrs,dot makes up to 4.5 ltrs for my morning milking,but also needs lots of fresh hay,amazing really,6 mth old kid still feeding during the day,dot doing well


Just to translate the products mentioned here into something you guys would be familiar with:

Vytrate = electrolyte and glucose solution, can be used for preg tox
Ketol = propylene glycol
stuff under the skin = CMPK
eat ease paste = B vitamins (cant remember which one off the top of my head)

I hope this helps


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## thorsonfarms (Feb 21, 2013)

I wasn't too worried when my doe last year didnt eat grain when she was preggo her and my other doe would only eat the sweet feed and slowly they stopped eating that too, they ate all alfalfa everyday so as long as they were eating something I was ok with that. She ate only hay for 2 months before kidding and it was so noticeable that when she gave me twin bucklings they were proudly named alfalfa and Timothy! I loved my little alfy! Good luck with the feeding


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone, I appreciate your help! 
Keren - I'm so glad your mum's doe is doing so well! I appreciate all that information as well!

She only ate 1/2 a cup of grain last night  She didn't eat anything this morning, just her grain.

I called all the local feed stores and can't find anyone who has propylene glycol. The TSC nearby doesn't have any in stock, so I just called another TSC and they do have some on the shelf.
I can't get it until tomorrow morning.
I will also see about picking up a bag of sweet goat feed or horse feed and offer some of that to her and see if she'll eat it. 

This evening when we feed, i am going to try and feed her with the other does and see if she'll show any interest at all. 

As soon as the kids are off to school in the morning I can head over to TSC. 
She's eating hay so at least she is eating, but IMO it is certainly not enough to maintain her and her babies health. I pray it's just the fact she doesnt like the grain.
This morning she stuck her nose in the feeder, but pushed the feed around like she was searching, she had a few pieces in her mouth but spit them out like they were disgusting.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

eating her alfalfa is a good sign her rumans if functioning..so she may feel a bit off ...treating for ketosis certainly wont hurt and could help


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

Just a quick question on this subject, is propylene glycol Nutridrench? Or is it just that Nutridrench has propylene glycol in it, and there is a straight propylene glycol? 

I am really watching one of my does, who has not gone off feed at all but has slowed way down (has 3 weeks to go) and I was going to give her some Nutridrench just to help out. They eat forage hay and grain, and I have been giving the pregnant does a handful of alfalfa morning and night also.

Sorry to butt in your thread Candace! I have been following it closely though and freaking myself out, as usual .


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

goatgirlzCA - you can buy it by itself, it comes in a 1 gal bottle, and is $21 at TSC. 
http://www.tractorsupply.com/ideal-animal-health-propylene-glyco-1-gal--2209731

I have never used Nutridrench, but I'm planning to get some of that too to keep on hand.

Happybleats - thanks, her rumen is definitely working, so that's a relief, but I'm so worried about her not eating her grain & the added nutrition it will give her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..I can understand...it is puzzleing she just started to turn her nose to the new bag...have you giventhe feed a good sniff?? since all your goats didnt want it at first..the others may have just decided to go for it..maybe the ratio is off or a mild smell??Look on the inside of the bag as well...we bought some once that looked fine but on the inside of the bag was mold...

Nutra drench is good stuff...new borns get 2 squirts : ) Some of my moms will suck it out of the bottle if I let them..other will spit and give angry eyes..but if they need a boost they get some lol..it does have Propylene glyco in it and in a pinch can help a doe but the full strength is better..


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

It's pelleted feed, and only her and her buddy are the ones that turned their nose up to it. Her buddy has been fine with it since that first feeding.

She pushes it around with her nose like she's hungry, but like it's unappealing.
This evening when we went out to feed, she couldn't wait to get in her stall.
She ate a little bit, but kept looking at me like she was waiting for something else?

I've been rattling my brain thinking of anything that could have her off.
I think I'll pick her up some feed tomorrow, take my chance and see if she'll eat it.
Problem is, I'm not sure what kind to get especially if I can't find a good, sweet goat feed, then I'd have to get horse feed.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I went and picked up the propylene glycol this morning, as well as some sweet stock feed <if she takes to it we'll slowly switch her to a good horse feed>.
I picked up more of our regular feed while I was there, so I am going to offer that first just in case. Then I'll mix in some of the sweet feed.
I'll give her some propylene glycol, and a shot of B-Complex.

Should I give her a scoop of probios later? I have the goat probio powder from TSC. I did drench her with a scoop of it on Monday.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Okay, my third post in a row lol

She nibbled a tiny bit better on the grain this morning. She ate about 1/2 a cup of pellets then I mixed 1 cup of the sweet stock feed and 1 cup goat pellets<it IS horse feed not all stock feed like I thought>. She nibbled a little better on it, but not much.
I gave her 30cc of propylen glycol, and 2 cc b-complex. I can't remember how much B-Complex I should give, but usually I start with 2cc.
Gave her some warm water w/ACV in it. 
She did go out, but it's so nasty outside, wind is picking up and cold so I convinced her it was better in her stall, so she came back inside to a fresh flake of alfalfa.

I'm wondering, how often should I give her the propylene glycol? And how much? I dont' want to hurt her or give her too much, etc.
Should I keep alfalfa available 24/7 or offer her some clover/grass hay in between?

2 things I am thinking about trying next.
1. tonight after evening feeding time, I may put her and her buddy in the back of the creep area and lock them in - her buddy's baby can get in/out from the creep feeder. I may try to feed them together first to see if she shows any interest.

2. I did suspect worms a month ago, and she's been wormed 2x, eyelids look dark & pink, but I'm thinking I may end up doing a fecal if we don't see some improvement just to rule out any issues. BUT, I am hesitant. I wanted to do a combination fecal - getting a sample from each of the adult does to take in to make sure they are fine.


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