# Questions from New Zealand



## NZgoatpacker (Jun 13, 2009)

Hullo,

So I appear to be the only person in NZ with a wannabe pack goat... I'm wondering if you guys could offer opinions on a few things for me please?

First thing is my goats breed... I got him as a four-ish month old kid from a local farm. I've had a few locals say they used to have pet goats 'just like him', but I have no idea what his breeding might be. Now he might be unique to NZ, but if anyone recognises anything in him I'd be most grateful.

[attachment=0:29lov84y]n716877448_1421519_421.jpg[/attachment:29lov84y]

Also, I use a leather dog collar on him as he's tethered during the time I'm not around, rather than a halter. Does anyone else use a collar? And how do you find it? In fact, does anyone have their goat(s) tethered the majority of the time?


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

I feel I have a lot to say on this subject because for the last two years my goat has been tethered 24/7. Phil and I work from home, so we are able to watch Cuzco all the time. He gets tethered in the back yard at night, which is also enclosed by an electric fence. During the daytime he is tethered in the empty lots surrounding our house. We can see him from our office window.

For the back yard I use a permanent stake that I got in a pet store. The thing said, "for big dogs", but it's _very_ heavy duty. I imagine it would hold my horse with no problem! The best feature about this stake is also the worst--once it's in the ground, it _stays_ in the ground!

I had to get a less permanent stake for the side-lot grazing because it gets moved every few weeks. This one is an umbrella-type stake with a smooth barrel and two flanges to hold it in the ground. I can pry it up with a shovel when I want to move it. I got the biggest one I could find and I've used it for two years now with no problems, although numerous relocations have taken their toll. It's quite twisted and bent now, and I should probably replace it soon. I had no luck with a spiral-type stake. Not only was it hard to get in the ground, but once in place, Cuzco could pull it right back out with very little effort.

For the tether itself, I have tried all sorts of things, and by far the best option is a smooth-link dog chain for large dogs. Cable tethers get tangled much too easily, and the plastic coating cracks and becomes dangerous and difficult to handle. Cables also tend to wrap themselves around legs and cut off circulation, so I don't recommend them. We've been very satisfied with the chain. The smooth welded links never get tangled or caught on things, it doesn't grab hair, and chains are very easy to repair with a quick link if they get broken or if you want to change the length. I hooked two 30' chains together for Cuzco's side-lot grazing so he has 120' radius in which to browse.

Lately I've had a bit of trouble with Cuzco and bears. I haven't had a bear try to get into the back yard at night, but two times I've had Cuzco panic, break his collar or chain, and and bolt through the fence when he smelled a bear walk by. He doesn't realize he's safer inside the fence, not only from bears, but from cars, dogs, and other dangers. So after two break-outs, I started tethering him at night with a kernmantle (rock climbing) rope which I tie directly around his neck with a bowline knot. He can't break this, and if he panics and bolts, it has a slight bungee effect that keeps him from hurting his neck when he hits the end. I don't like to tie a goat with something he can't break if he gets in a pinch, but I also can't risk his getting out onto the road at night, so until bear season is over, I'm using the rope.

Finally, the collar. For most of his life, Cuzco wore a sporty blue nylon collar. We liked the flashy color, and nylon doesn't need care. However, when we moved two years ago and started tethering Cuzco full-time, we discovered the down-side to nylon: it chafes. Cuzco slowly began to lose hair in a ring around his neck, and it was amazing how quickly he developed sores once the protective hair had been rubbed out. I switched to a leather collar and saw immediate results. The sores healed and the hair grew back in. I'm amazed that with leather, when I take the collar off there's barely a dent in the hair where the collar sits. He had more wear than that on his neck from the nylon collar he wore for the first 5 years when he was never tethered at all!

Hopefully this has been helpful. Good luck with your goat!


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## Shelly Borg (Nov 2, 2009)

He looks like a Kiko or Kiko cross. 
Good luck


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## ashkelon (Jul 25, 2009)

I use a leather collar on Cabra most of the time. I made it from some english leather reins I had "used up" so it has classy leather lacing around the edges. I don't like using a collar on him, but I built a breakaway into it in case someone's horn or a branch gets under it. 

He also has a nylon yacht line collar that I tie for him (hand-tied button and loop closure) that will also give if hooked up. That holds his plastic id tags in case he wanders. I also write on the inside of his thigh with a sharpie (permanant pen), until the tattoo lady gets down our way.

The leather collar went on because people (I think little people) are attracted to his pretty purple collars and take them off. I've found them all over the place, and always where children and goats play together.

The collars are, as much as anything, because some of the goats are for butchering, and people know the goats with collars or tattoos are "claimed". 

I have tethered him, for training, like we do the horses. Haltered and tied to the overhead line. Also ground tied, but with the halter, always. And always with a bungie in the line somewhere, like a loop of inner tube.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Nanno said:


> Finally, the collar. For most of his life, Cuzco wore a sporty blue nylon collar. We liked the flashy color, and nylon doesn't need care. However, when we moved two years ago and started tethering Cuzco full-time, we discovered the down-side to nylon: it chafes. Cuzco slowly began to lose hair in a ring around his neck, and it was amazing how quickly he developed sores once the protective hair had been rubbed out. I switched to a leather collar and saw immediate results. The sores healed and the hair grew back in. I'm amazed that with leather, when I take the collar off there's barely a dent in the hair where the collar sits. He had more wear than that on his neck from the nylon collar he wore for the first 5 years when he was never tethered at all!


Actually we have done tests with nylon and leather for wear and hair rub with our saddles and the nylon has much less friction against the hair than leather. The problem comes when holes are burnt in the nylon to use a leather style buckle. Melting the holes in nylon leaves hard lumps around the holes which are the cause of the rubbing. For normal wear this is not a problem but if it is left on permanently it could cause rubs and hair loss on the goat. The goats with the most problem of hair loss are Saanens because their hair seems to be much more brittle than the other breeds.

Collars and halters are not recommended to be left on the goat full time unless they are tied out 24/7. Other horned members of the goat herd will learn to hook their horns in the collars and have choked their herd mates to death by getting the collar twisted until they couldn't breath. I personally know that their feet, sticks, trash and tree limbs have all gotten stuck in collars and halters often resulting in injuries or death to the goat. I have also heard of a few goats that have even hung themselves after getting their collars caught on protruding boards or nails sticking out from a building.

The point is that if you have to tie you goat 24/7 then you have no choice but to keep one on. If your goat is not tied, then its much safer to take them off until you are ready to take them out on the trail.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

As for what breed of goat it is, I agree with Shelly that it is most likely a Kiko. It looks like many Nubian/ Saanen crossbreeds I have seen with the airplane ears, which is exactly the ancestry of a Kiko goat. Well pretty close anyway. I believe there were some small feral goats used in the mix and maybe another breed or two thrown in somewhere back the line.


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Rex said:


> Actually we have done tests with nylon and leather for wear and hair rub with our saddles and the nylon has much less friction against the hair than leather. The problem comes when holes are burnt in the nylon to use a leather style buckle. Melting the holes in nylon leaves hard lumps around the holes which are the cause of the rubbing. For normal wear this is not a problem but if it is left on permanently it could cause rubs and hair loss on the goat. The goats with the most problem of hair loss are Saanens because their hair seems to be much more brittle than the other breeds.


Huh, it's interesting that you had that experience, because mine has always been just the opposite! Cuzco's collar never had holes in it to rub. His one buckle collar was on the tightest hole, so no holes came in contact with his neck to rub the hair. Most of his collars have been the kind with the plastic clip, though, and whether the nylon was new or old, it always rubbed. Cuzco has never been without broken and worn hairs on his neck his whole life, but it wasn't until we started tethering him that hair loss and sores became a real problem under his collar. Once we switched to leather, however, the problem immediately vanished, and for the first time in his life Cuzco hasn't got a single broken hair around his neck. There's just a ripple in the hair where the collar presses it down flat. It's not collar width either because both types are 1" wide.

I've had the same experience with nylon vs. leather harnesses and latigos for horses. Nylon always seems to cause rubs, and it's not usually in places where there are holes. My leather latigos have never pulled hair out (or hurt my fingers) like nylon. They also have far less trouble with slippage, and they don't fray. It's odd that we've had such different experiences! I wonder why?

Here's a picture of Cuzco and his fancy leather collar. Cuzco likes his bling.  
[attachment=0:2dv839rd]Cuzco_Bling.jpg[/attachment:2dv839rd]


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I started with leather on our saddles and had rub problems. Hence the switch to nylon. No rubs since. The type and weave of the nylon is important however and the stiffer stuff can rub.

I've been around pack animals for years and the horses and mules used by back country outfitters regularly have all the hair rubbed off under the leather breast and rump straps after a few weeks of trail travel.


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