# Horns



## Beckyinva (Nov 27, 2015)

I have 2 young Pygmys (5 mo and 1yr) without horns. I am considering getting another baby fainting goat but it has horns. What's the chance the horns will hurt the others during play or the horns getting stuck in fence? Thanks in advance!


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Not really any chance that they would hurt the others during play. Goats heads are hard. Hard enough to fend off a bullet. That's a story I have. Lol I have two wethers that were dehorned and the rest of my girls have horns and they have never hurt each other. Getting stuck in the fence is another thing. It depends if they can get their whole head through the fence. If yes than there is a big possibility of the horns getting stuck. If it's goat proof fencing or horse fencing you shouldn't have a problem.


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## cybercat (Oct 18, 2007)

The size difference would be a concern. Your fainter is larger and stronger than the pygm. But I bet you would not put them together once you saw how much bigger the Fainter is to the pygms.


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

I knew someone who had a horned goat who accidentally (at least that what she said) hooked a kid in her horns and threw the kid, the kid did end up passing away. I think with anything you need to be prepared and think though all options and possible outcomes and then try as best you can to prevent any bad possible outcomes from happening.


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

I'd recommend sticking with all no-horns, but horned and non-horned goats can live together peacefully. My buck was supposed to be dehorned, but his horns grew anyway, so he's the only one with horns out of my whole herd. Fortunately, he's not aggressive and his horns are rather wide and flat - not the spear-like pointy ones that I've seen on other goats.  He's never hurt anyone, but I always wonder - especially during breeding time when he's with the girls. He does rub his horns on everything, and he's gotten caught up in the fence for a bit once (nothing serious). I disbud all my kids.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I had an angora wether for the fiber quite a few years back and he got stuck in the fence several times. I put a stick across his horns and taped it on with the electrical tape. He looked silly but couldn't put his head thru the fence anymore.


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## Beckyinva (Nov 27, 2015)

cybercat said:


> The size difference would be a concern. Your fainter is larger and stronger than the pygm. But I bet you would not put them together once you saw how much bigger the Fainter is to the pygms.


I didn't think the fainter were that much bigger. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

All here have horns but Annabelle who has scurs (don't get me started). Love me some horns. I swear I'm jealous of their beautiful horns. I haven't had issue with their horns in fences (we use chain link) or injuring each other.


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## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

Fainters can be anywhere from 70 lbs to 150..


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

It depends on the goats personality I have mixed horned and dehorned. I am slowly going dehorned because of goats getting stuck in the fence and my milking stand's head catch is too small,


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## Hartwigfarms (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi

I've got both horned and dehornd.  for the most part they get along. Sometimes they get a mood and the ones with horns will use them but I've never had one get hurt from them..but I've also got mostly the same size and ages in my herd. 
The goat herd hierarchy...my queen goat has no horns and my lowest goat in the group has horns lol. It could change one day but that's what it is today. I do have one goat that gets scurs pretty bad once in a while. And I clip them off. She hates it but they curl back under and she itches her head on stuff to try to knock them off so when they get like that I clip them off. 

Not to scare you away from horns...because I've met many nice horned goats, I had a goat for a month who had horns, picked her up from a auction she was a sweet girl to people but once I put her in with my other goats. She used her horns as a weapon so violently I decided to separate her. I tried to re introduce her a few more times but the same issue happened. I finally sold her to someone and I told her, her horns are an issue with other goats, she put her in with lambs and go figure she was totally fine. But idk. 
I own both and love them both. There's def some pros and cons of horns and no horns.


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## GodsGarden (Feb 6, 2015)

I have both. I love horns. Never been a problem with my goats playing or fighting even if one had horns and the other didn't. I find when both the goats have horns they settle their differences faster. The horns lock and then there is a good pushing war. Without horns they bang and bang their heads and shoulders together. 

I hate scurs!! Never been hurt by a horn but scurs are horrid! They get sharp and I have been scratched badly. Plus they are always falling off and bleeding, poor goatys. Till they get bigger and you have to saw them off. Blood, pain, poor buck hates it. Wish he had horns. Sorry, I will stop my rant against scurs.....

I say, dogs are dangerous but we don't de-tooth them.


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## Beckyinva (Nov 27, 2015)

This is all educational for me! Thank yall!


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

GodsGardenLamanchaGoats said:


> I have both. I love horns. Never been a problem with my goats playing or fighting even if one had horns and the other didn't. I find when both the goats have horns they settle their differences faster. The horns lock and then there is a good pushing war. Without horns they bang and bang their heads and shoulders together.
> 
> I hate scurs!! Never been hurt by a horn but scurs are horrid! They get sharp and I have been scratched badly. Plus they are always falling off and bleeding, poor goatys. Till they get bigger and you have to saw them off. Blood, pain, poor buck hates it. Wish he had horns. Sorry, I will stop my rant against scurs.....
> 
> I say, dogs are dangerous but we don't de-tooth them.


Totally agree. I love horns. We don't dehorn any of our goats. Their horns are so important to them and after having two wethers who were dehorned by someone else wrongly and got scurs that just solidifies my choices. One of my wethers just had to have his scurs surgically removed, and my poor baby, it was awful. Granted I know everyone has their opinion and I respect that.


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## Patch (Jul 1, 2014)

I respect others' decisions to do what they think is best for their circumstances.

With that said, if you are considering dehorning a goat, please do a little research before you go down that path.

Goats have their horns for several reasons that go beyond just having the ability to defend themselves and establish / maintain their order in the herd. They also help them stay cool in the heat as they serve as radiators which can mean a life or death checkpoint somewhere during their lives.

Since you have to be a member of Meat Goat Mania to see this article, I am copying it for those who wish to read it. This is out of the Nov 2014 Issue and is clearly against removing the horns.

Again, I understand if you decide that dehorned goats are better for your personal circumstances, I just ask that everyone look into both sides before they make a decision.

-Patch


HORNS

Why You Should Never Disbud or Dehorn

Horns serve many positive purposes for goats. The positives of having horns far outweigh the negatives caused by removing them.

A goat eliminates body heat differently from humans. We perspire. Like a dog, a goat eliminates heat through panting. Panting causes the goat to lose carbon dioxide. Loss of carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the blood. This is particularly critical during pregnancy. When a doe is pregnant, any change in the blood's composition affects the nutrition carried to her unborn kids, causing them to starve or die. Having horns allows the goat to eliminate much of this excess heat. I've seen goats without horns die from heat stroke.

Horns serve as a weapon against predators. While this is less important in managed herds, horns do impact the goat's position in the pecking order (both males and females). Bucks compete for the ability to breed does by banging horns and head butting. Does also use horns to establish social ranking, and dams with nursing kids use them to maintain distance between other dams and their kids.

Goats use their horns to scratch themselves. Sometimes they get creative and open feed bins or gates with them. Horns are handy handles for goat raisers to use when working their animals.

Disbudding is very dangerous. The person doing the disbudding may burn too deeply, causing infection and sometimes death. Dehorning is terrible too. Goat horns have a large base with big sinus cavities beneath them. The best a goat can come out with is a major headache. Worse results include scurs that grow back and curl into the goat's head or that break off and bleed, opening the head to infection. Flies can lay eggs in open wounds, and maggots can hatch out and eat into the brain, causing serious illness or death. I've seen a goat lose its eyesight because maggots ate into the head and affected the ocular nerve.

The arguments against horns are (with my rebuttals):

"Horns are dangerous." Indeed they can be. And if you or your family members don't know how to behave around goats and properly handle them, then you should not be raising them. It is absurd to alter the goat physically because of human shortcomings or ridiculous show regulations. You should never get between a buck in rut and a doe in heat, horns or not.

"Horns can get caught in fences." Yes they can. So make sure your fences have horizontal openings of 4 inches or less or 12 inches or more so this doesn't happen. You have to check fences every day when raising goats. Clean up all debris. Some goat ranches could pass for trash dumps. Get all non-goat-related stuff out of goat pastures and pens. Consider this to be a daily responsibility. I've been raising goats since January 1990; I have lost three goats in fences, two of which were small kids who got their tiny horn spread into that 4 inch panel and could not get out. The third was an adult who got hung in a fence while I was away and the person responsible for checking them didn't do his job. Check your goats multiple times per day. Much worse things can happen if you disbud or dehorn the goat. Be a responsible goat owner.

"Legs or horns of other goats can get caught in horns." Again, check your goats regularly. Some of them are going to injure or kill themselves regardless of what you do. It is important to not do things to your goats that impair their ability to adapt to and interact with their herd and their environment.

"My goat show requires disbudding/dehorning." Get the rules changed! Educate the people that made those rules so they know why they are wrong and not good for the goats. If you must, tip the horns. And teach kids how to THINK LIKE A GOAT to minimize their chances of getting hurt.

Suzanne W. Gasparotto, Onion Creek Ranch, Texas 11-11-14


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