# Doe possibly bred by father. What to do?



## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

My GC doe Annie is huge(bigger than her twin sister who always the fat one) and her udder is beginning to get hard. She is just as big as the does I have bred that should kid in a week or two (Jan 13-20). I have her father on the property and he got out while we were on vacation in August breeding three does that are not related to him and I wanted bred, but also possibly Annie. I put her in with a buck we are leasing for 6 weeks, but I never saw her come in heat. That isn't a huge factor though because I didn't see any of the does I put in with him come in heat. If she is bred by her dad what should I do with the kids? Do they automatically need culled or is there a chance they could turn out fine? Should I be anticapating possible still-births? Thanks


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

Oh and she is a yearling. This would be her first freshing.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They should be fine.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

It depends on your definition of fine. They probably won't have any serious health issues, but I wouldn't use them for breeding - pets (wethers) or meat only.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

In every other type of animal it seems the in/line breeding is OK with father to daughter not mother to son yatta yatta.....these kids will be fine. I have had opps breeding of this match and they were good and now that I have a buck that throws small kids everyone including his daughters will be bred to him their first go. I would not breed full brother and sister and I would not keep line breeding them on and on. The daughters that my buck will be breeding...their kids will be a for sure sold simply because if I keep their off spring it will be bred back to dad/grandpa.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

How unrelated were her parents? If there's been any linebreeding or in fact any inbreeding at all, particularly if there's a distant relation between her parents I'd be concerned. Just don't breed from the young at all.

If on the other hand her parents were completely unrelated, not so bad ... if there's a nice doe kid you want, I'd not be too concerned about keeping her as long as she never goes back to that some line ... in fact I'd be putting a different breed over her entirely, get that hybrid vigour going again.

Of course it also depends on the qualities of the animals too ... if that mating will strengthen good qualities then ok ... if it will strengthen bad qualities, eg if both dad and daughter share a defect, even a minor one ... just don't even go there.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

My fine would be showable. And unfornitally the woman we get them from line breeds(not father to daughter), but pretty close. I don't and if I get bucks off of her I am VERY careful that the buck is as unrelated as possible(I cannot go completely unrelated just because of the way this woman breeds). So my mom doesn't want to keep these goats at all, but I am wanting to know if there could be physcal problems could be so bad that they may not live? And if I can't breed from them(which is what it sounds like) then I certainly would not be keeping them. I keep a very small herd(under 20), but they all have to be high show quality (quality over quanity) and all breedable as well as showable.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I have had father breed mother, sister Grandmother and so on. I never had a problem before. Matter of fact I have gotten Grand Champions out of it.

Now I did not do them all on purpose, and some I did.

It seems to really show off the faults on the off springs if there is any really noticeable ones.


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

People breed animals back to their sires intentionally all the time. The babies should be fine. Inbreeding is usually only a problem if you keep doing it over generations.
I would personally let her have the kids let them grow for a bit and then decide, if you see any huge faults then put them in the freezer or sell them as pets.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

If your goats are registered, especially if they happen to be ADGA, go look at their pedigree on adga genetics website. Yeah, there is plenty of line breeding back there (at least with the Nubians and the ND lines mine come from). And that resulted in some big names in their respective breeds.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

They should be fine. As long as the father doesn't have any major faults that you wouldn't want strengthened there isn't any reason why they wouldn't be showable and why you wouldn't be able to breed them. If she has doe kids and you choose to keep them and breed them, I would just find as unrelated of a buck as I can to breed them to. Linebreeding is the best way to get uniformity in your herd. Just look at any of the big name herds around you will see that most of their goats are closely related and that they all are of similar type.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

Well that is what this lady does and she has nationally known Toggenburgs. I will see what the kids look like. I love this buck. He is truly one of my favorites and as I said before this is my best doe out of the bunch. Would I still be able to register them with ADGA? Oh and I have looked at their records. As I said this lady does LOTS of line breeding.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

I am just worried that the kids will not be normal. However if they are really good goats(and does) then I would like to be able to show them, but I wouldn't want to keep goats that would hurt my herd.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Oh no you won't get any serious defects like you're thinking of!

What you could get:

Defects shared by the father/daughter being amplified

Or, if the inbreeding is becoming too severe, you could likely notice things like slower growth rate, tendency towards ill health and parisite problems, that sort of thing.

NOT so badly affected it couldn't live ... that would be phenomenal!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

And yes you can register them with ADGA. ADGA doesn't have any rules against registering offspring that are too closely related.

What are the registered names of the buck and the doe (daughter)? You can go to the ADGA genetics webpage, click on planned breeding, put in their names (be sure to click on the name in the little drop down thing it adds the number and everything and won't work if you don't) then click submit and it will tell give you the % "inbred" the kids will be.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

Barnes19 said:


> Oh no you won't get any serious defects like you're thinking of!
> 
> What you could get:
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!!! I will show this thread to my mom. Maybe she will be interested in keeping them if they are really great. This so put my mind at rest. Thanks so much!


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

ptgoats45 said:


> And yes you can register them with ADGA. ADGA doesn't have any rules against registering offspring that are too closely related.
> 
> What are the registered names of the buck and the doe (daughter)? You can go to the ADGA genetics webpage, click on planned breeding, put in their names (be sure to click on the name in the little drop down thing it adds the number and everything and won't work if you don't) then click submit and it will tell give you the % "inbred" the kids will be.


 Thanks. I will check it out. Would it be possible for you to give me a link to the site? I have trouble finding anything attached to ADGA it seems. I can't even find the page where you can search goats. It just doesn't like me it seems.


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

http://www.adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigree.aspx


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I have a doe bred back to her sire... Conformationally it was a better choice of buck.. Her first doe is reserved by her breeder and the second I plan to retain... I will then breed her kid to my most unrelated buck.. (Though they are both related to her in some way...)


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Some of my best does were the result of father daughter breedings. I have had to do that because I couldn't find another buck that would be a good match or because I wanted to fix a trait. No issues, wonderful kids. I just don't breed the kids/grandkids back to dad/grampy.


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

So it sounds like if they are really good girls I should be able to keep them without problems. Good.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Yup 

Here's the link:

http://adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigree.aspx

When you start typing in the buck's name (and type it just like it is on his papers) it should start to give you options to click on below the box, once you see his name just click on it and all the info (reg # and name) will be in the box. Do the same with the doe then hit generate and it will show you what their pedigree will look like and tell you the % inbred


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## Ride4ever (Aug 7, 2013)

Thank you soooo much. I am saving the site. I checked up on them. The kids will only be about 31% inbred which puts my mind at ease and my mom seems to be letting up about it as well. Thank you for all your helps guys!


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