# Considerations for new additions (opinions please)



## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Okay...because I can't seem to put the potato chip bag down I am thinking about two new potentional does. But I promise after these that's it!! I only have an acre and 4 stalls here...when we are done building our new place I will have a 12 stall barn and pastures. THEN I can get more. After these two does and the whether I'll have 4 does, 1 buck, and 1 whether. My husband has already told me he'll leave if I get any more then that, so I have to be good! 

Okay, doe option number one, tell me what you think:
http://www.capriola.webs.com/forsale.htm

She is bred to Royal, the buck below her on that page. I am very happy with her overall appearance and her udder. And I have a great chance of blue eyes babies out of her and Royal!  :drool: 
Olivia (Capriola) has her listed for a friend. She has been very helpful and has answered lots of questions for me. This doe is a bit standoffish, but will warm up. She is super easy to milk and breed. Her heats are easy to detect and she labors and delivers easily on her without complication. She has had two sets of triples with two bucklings and a doe each, all blue eyes! Plus kidded two other times once with twins and another with triplets. This doe is very healthy - I am sure greatly due to Olivia and her current owner's efforts - having shown no health issues, signs of deficiencies, or mastitis. She is CAE and CL negative.

Second doe, just a little doeling who'd I'd like to breed to my buck sometime next year:
http://www.hoofinitranch.com/Athena.html

Again, I am excited about her overall appearance. Her dam and Sire can easily be found on the Hoofin It Ranch website. I didn't mean to pick to does with similar coloring, but I was looking for more character and type! Again, healthy. No kidding history, obviously. She is only 7 months old.

I would LOVE any opinions as well as ideas for questions I can ask


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I like Blue Iris -- the only down fall I see is capacity -- after that many freshionings she should have greater capacity and I am not seeing it. If milking show are not your main concerns she certainly will give you some pretty babies, and bred to the right buck her kids could get greater capacity in their udders. 

Athena is not to bad -- I dont like that she is weak in the chine. She acquired this trait from her sire as her mom does not have this fault. It looks like her sire acquired this possibly from his dam -- but his sire is to set up to know for sure if he has it.
Bred to a buck who has a very level topline you should get better show quality kids. She still may do well if you show her - I have a Grand Champion junior who is weak in the chine......but it is all who they are competing against as well, and who the judge is.


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## ProctorHillFarm (May 15, 2008)

Yes, what are you looking for, milk? show? or just pets? knowing that will help me to give you my opinion on them!


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Milk for sure. But dairy character in general for show is important as well as my kids will show in a few years.


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## ProctorHillFarm (May 15, 2008)

Okay

So I like Isis probably more so than the doeling in general apperance and dairy character
The things I dont like about Isis is that yes she needs more capacity, but honestly her udder would not hold up to more capacity, you can see that her medial is quite weak which is causing her udder floor to round out at the bottom, with any more milk that medial might even give way to the weight.
I probably would not have bred her to Royal Blue myself, since you see this same fault in his dam, look at her udder as a second freshener, and then look at it as a third freshener just a year later, she gained more capacity yes, but her medial gave way to the weight and her udder has taken that rounded out appearance at the bottom.
I would be concerned about this for the future doelings milk capacity as well as potentially affecting them in their show career.

Now I think Isis bred to the right buck could be a nice show doeling producer, but is probably not a show doe herself (at least in this area- not sure what the competition is like where you are located)


For the doeling...Stacey hit it right on (and had a good eye!) with what she pointed out referring to her chine. It is dippy, and her sires is quite weak. Dippy chines unfortunatly only seem to get worse with age, which again could really affect her show career. Her mothers udder looks decent, but it is set pretty low and there also could be some medial trouble there. 
What I dont like is not being able to see a picture of her sire's dams udder, there is no picture and it states she is a not a show doe, this would concern me if I were looking for show quality kids. Was she not a show doe because of conformation? A prior injury? A bad udder?? 

If I were you, and you definately wanted to get another doe, I would probably just get Isis, she is bred, and you could hang onto her kids to see what their udders turn out like, or sell the kids (and make back your money on you purchase from them) and breed her to a buck that would add medial strength and capacity to her daughters.

Sorry that was so long drawn out and really nit-picky, but those are the things that ran through my head when asked to critique them


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Addie are we looking at teh same doe? because Camanna LK Royal Blue dam is CH Camanna FD Tasonni Blue

Her Major Show Wins 
2009 - 4 times ADGA Grand Champion, 3 times Best of Breed, and once Best Udder, one time reserve Grand Champion (only shown six times in 2009)

I dont see any faults with her udder??? http://camanna.com/does.htm good medials are hard to come by in nigerian dwarf goats.

Blue Iris's udder has a nice medial - rear attachment, forudder and her teats point down. Honestly besides capacity I see no major faults. The udder isnt even shaved in those pictures but you can see the medial definition. I would be very happy to own that doe.


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## ProctorHillFarm (May 15, 2008)

Medial defination and medial strength are two different things

When an udder takes on a rounded appearance at the bottom, it means the medial is not strong enough to hold the udder up in the two halves.

In my opinion neither one of those does has a STRONG medial- you can see the big difference in the dam's udder between her second and third freshening udder. 
I am just saying with more milk (which is needed in Isis) that a strong medial will also be needed


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

as a 4th freshioner (according to the information provided) I think Blue Iris has held up nicely -- capacity or not. Would she hold up to more milk? would her kids hold up to more milk? I would like to see freshioned daughters from Royal Blue before making any determinations on what he will or wont throw in that department and how his kids will do.

I think we both can agree she is a nice doe with potential as do her kids have potential.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Wow, I am learning a lot in a short amount of time! I had to google some of the terms, but I am catching on.

I agree Iris is the better choice of the two. Even with low capacity her udder is overall nice and I'd be eager to see what I got from her and my buck Couragious. His dam (and her udder) can be see here: (I suspect the combination would produce an improvement)
http://www.brandywinefarms.net/
Once again for those of you who have not followed that link - go to Senior Does, the third gal down, Fandango. The dam to my buck.

I am still deciding on Athena. I am going to visit her today and see how she is growing. I did not even notice her chine, but now that I look at both her and her buck, I see the default. But she would be bred to Courageous who has a sturdy level top line. So, once again, there is a chance of improvement. And I might also get the nice udder from Athena's mother. Worst case here is that I don't get what I want from this combination and have to find a buck who better compliments Athena's weaknesses or just sell all kids as pets. It's not my goal to produce mediocre goats though, if I am going to breed I want it to be to further improve them. So, again, I am still mulling her over. I also have the choice of Aurelia:

http://www.hoofinitranch.com/Aurelia.html

But I do not like the dramatic dip before her tail or the high shoulders, it's hard to tell from the pictures but she also appears to be very slander in the hips and shoulders - possibly something she will grow out of. Of the two junior does at Hoofin It I like Athena much more.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

actually Aurelia rump isnt that bad (what you called the dip before her tail). her rear legs are set just a bit under her, if they were like an inch behind more then she would level off better. 

Withers should be high like that -- its called a natural uphill stance and high withers are desirable. 

I like her long neck and her nice legs. 

I like her much better then Athena.

She is a huge improvement from her dam and sire.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Show stance also makes a big difference as well as clipped

just from the does on her site you can see difference in natural pose vs show stance:

this is the same doe

http://www.hoofinitranch.com/images/tulip05mar09.JPG

http://www.hoofinitranch.com/sitebuilde ... 13x339.jpg


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

She does look much better in the other two photos! :clap: But got an awkward pose in that first one I suppose.

I know high withers are good, I just didn't like them compared to the dip before her tail. In the other two pictures she is standing more normal, has less of a dip, and so her whether look much more proportioned and correct. Thank you for finding those other pictures! :hug: I should have hunted a little better for them. The only thing about Aurelia that stops me is that her dam is related to the dam of my buck. So, I could not breed them...but I do have plans for a second buck down the line...hmm... :scratch: 

There's almost 2 feet of snow on the ground and I have an uphill driveway. I am not going anywhere! But as soon as it is safe to drive I will meet both of the young does!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

pennylullabelle said:


> She does look much better in the other two photos! :clap: But got an awkward pose in that first one I suppose.
> 
> I know high withers are good, I just didn't like them compared to the dip before her tail. In the other two pictures she is standing more normal, has less of a dip, and so her whether look much more proportioned and correct. Thank you for finding those other pictures! :hug: I should have hunted a little better for them. The only thing about Aurelia that stops me is that her dam is related to the dam of my buck. So, I could not breed them...but I do have plans for a second buck down the line...hmm... :scratch:
> 
> There's almost 2 feet of snow on the ground and I have an uphill driveway. I am not going anywhere! But as soon as it is safe to drive I will meet both of the young does!


No those links i posted are not of Aurelia but of another doe -- it was just to show you how show stance can make a difference in how a goat looks.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Haha right after I posted the message I was like...wait...and I went back to the site for Hoofin it. I was thinking "Aurelia doesn't have blue eyes...and I don't see a black spot on the front leg..."

I realized it was Tulip 

I like Tulip! But she isn't one of the choices. I would like to see how Aurelia stands before going any further.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I want to find info on bucks out of Iris and Royal before making too many assumptions here...

But how would ya'll feel about a buck out of Iris/Royal this spring paired with Aurelia? Do you see any complimentary aspects, or areas one would possibly compensate for the other in future kids? This is ALL assumptions of course, just curious!

Forgot to add: info on past bucks from this pair:

http://capriola.webs.com/newarrivals.htm (as kids)

Here is Pepper Jack, the only buck I could find info on:

http://www.freewebs.com/efarms/bucks.htm#352064197


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

haha thats like couting your eggs before they are even chickens. I wouldnt even presume to make such predictions 


one kind of pairing will do awesome and then you do it gain or with another doe and it doesnt work out. Really its a lot of guess work to see which genetics mesh well with others. 

Athena and Aurelia are daughters of teh same buck - yet both does do not resemble each other. Their mothers are similarly built but one produced a fairly nice doe while the other not so much.

Obviously this is just my opinion you will get different schools of thought on breedings.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

lol Well that's pretty much what I figured. It'd be a gamble, but all of it is! Not just from one pairing to the next but even one kid to the next from the same pair. I've had my share of this from dogs


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yup. 

it never hurts though to ask for more pictures of each of the does you are looking at. Athena may have a better picture the next time or Aurelia may not be developing nicely.

Are both does priced the same? if different is did she give a reason?


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I keep forgetting stuff when I go to post!

...Athena: aside from a weak chine, is there anything else about her or her dam that you do or do not like? *The reason I ask is that I do not see a weak chine. I do not see a substantial dip in her back at the start of her ribs. However, I do see low shoulders compared to Aurelia.*

I will take lots more pictures myself and even post them here for more help with evaluation. Again, thanks so much for all the grate insight!

We have not discussed price yet because the breeder may be interested in service from Courageous so this may consume a part of the price.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

ok i cant vouch for the lines in iris.. i think she's really pretty

but i can vouch for the lines in athena.. she will MILK! the sire's line has made many really really nice does.. and my buck is his nephew.. actually when i was deciding on which buck to buy i went with my kevin over bo.. even though bo has an amazing body and his dam milks alot. i wanted to incorporate more twin creeks into my herd so i went with my buck.. 

really cant go wrong with either doe out of bo


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

If you want to milk and show don't let blue eyes decide which goats to purchase. Have seen too many new Nigerian owners jump in right off and go for blue eyes only to have to start over after they have taken those goats to a few shows and found out what the judges were looking for. There are some great blue-eyed goats out there but you want to be really selective. Get the best goats you possibly can for what you want to do with them and if that means waiting till Spring when kids are born and there is more selection I would do that.

From what I can see from photos(if you have the chance to see a doe in milk in person that is always the best way to judge) I would have to agree with Addie. Blue Iris's udder looks as though it could be lacking some in rear attachment into the rear arch and her medial is level to the udder floor. See the same issues in CH Camanna FD Tasonni Blue only worse likely because she has more capacity. Her rear udder narrows slightly at the arch into the escutcheon so it lacks uniform width to the udder floor. Her medial looks like it could be broken slightly as the udder floor looks slightly lower in the center. This may be causing her teats to point outward slightly.
The doe directly below her is much stronger in the udder department from what I can tell. Have never seen any of them in person so judging only from the photos.
Blue Iris does look from the photo to have very strong general appearance so she could make a nice brood doe bred to a udder buck with some good production lines behind him. 
There is no "perfect goat" and breeding to improve is what keeps breeders interested with a goal in mind.

You are located in CA? There are some fantastic herds of Nigerians in CA. If you go out of state to bring goats into CA you have to deal with getting health certificates which adds a lot onto the cost. 

~Shannon


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

SDK thanks so much for the info! I am glad you are having a good experience with your buck and that you know about the lines! It's nice to know the milking potential of Bojangle's offspring.

Shannon - Thank you for all the info! Again, had to google some terms, but I'm getting there! I do not have a preference over blue eyes. They are nice, but my buck has the kindest gold eyes a gal could hope for! The blues are simply a nice added bonus so what could be a nice doe to add to my mix (Iris). Based on the notes everyone has made about what is lacking in Iris' udder I would say I want her, but would be eager to breed her to my own buck who is from strong udders and see what I get from the two. However, I will still see what she throws in Spring and consider keeping kids to watch how they grow.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Oh forgot! Shannon- I am in NV, but will travel for nice goats. Who do you like in CA?


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

There are a lot of nice herds down that way. I used to live in San Jose and showed Nigerians in CA. Would look at Castlerock, Abobe Acres, Copper Penny, Everwood... lots of others I am forgetting. If you can travel to AZ Desert Nanny has some really nice milky does. If you are able to come all the way up to OR as well go for it.

It takes some time to learn about udders and most of us are still learning. Did you understand what is meant by the MSL? Here are a couple photos of two does to compare....look at the division of the halves of the udders. The black doe does not have a clear division. The floor of the udder looks flat across between the teats. The brown doe has a stronger division to the udder floor. The black doe is the brown doe's dam so thankfully there was an improvement between the two!

~Shannon


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Shannon- Wonderful pictures! Thank you so much for taking the time to show me that information. I did understand the description from your original post. But these images sure "bring it home."

My two current does are bred by Copper Penny. I do LOVE them. I see minimal flaws in both girls. But at the same time they are both very different! I will get good pictures of them in show stance soon. I have never seen them in milk though, so that will be new to me. Their sire, Copper Penny Arrowhead, doesn't have any info readily available online but what I can find from his relatives he throws nice dairy character. When I search for him all I find is a current senior doe out of one of my girls, I have emailed them asking for pictures. I am very curious to see those! 

I will definitely go Google all those herds though!


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Shannon - Do you have an opinion on Athena or Aurelia and/or their lines?


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

no problem. the breeder of my buck and bo, Kay holloway, is a really sweet woman and is a sort of mentor with the nigerians for me. she lives up by tahoe in nevada.. right now all but one of my nigerians is rooted deep in her lines.. her does milk alot, my 3 year old milked half a gallon per milking. and my yearling doe did about a half gallon a day. true like poppy patch said, there is no perfect goat, my 3 year old doesn't have the best medial or attachments, but that's another reason i bought my buck kevin. both his sire and dam's line are strong in those areas.. its all about being able to select a buck that will improve your does


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

SDK- Those are wonderful milk amounts for Nigerians! Which goats milked that much? I'd love to look into their lines and see if and where they are related to Athena and Aurelia. Thanks!!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

all my does pedigree's are listed on my site to the 4th generation.

the two does i have directly from Kay are:
Roc N Ewe CK Let's Twist Again ( my 3 year old)
Roc N Ewe TD Be Bop Baby ( first freshener)

my buck from kay:
Roc N Ewe RB Footloose ( 2 years in march)

and then my junior does are related to Kay's animals as well

SDK BOH Hollywood Starlett - out of the yearling doe and one of my old bucks -gorgeous doe.. but very very anti social..

SDK FL Eleanor Rigby - out of the 3 year old doe and my buck Footloose ( aka Kevin)



as far as i can tell, the only relations i see is that both those does go back to jimmy mac and ponders end keepsake.. which all of the above animals do too. 

my only doe who doesn't is my ponders end doe, Ponders End MB Surfbird, who i feel very lucky to have since i loved all of gail's animals. her sire is Twin Creeks BW Montego Bay *S and her dam is Ponders End OM Sandpiper. she may be related to your copper penny does.. since penny got alot of gail's girls
i'll try to find some pictures of the girls post kidding and pre milking .. since the ones on my site are pre kidding for the one doe, and just after kidding for the yearling


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

ok.. so these aren't the best pictures.. since they are hairy udders, and i couldn't find a rear udder pic for bebop. but they work.

bebop is a first freshening yearling, and twist was a 2nd freshening three year old


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I have definitely found some goats related to your doe "Surfbid" and some related to my does through "Ponders End FR Panache" who is the Sire of the Sire to both of my does, Copper Penny Arrowhead. But I did not find a connection between them. Though, who knows how far back it might go!

You have some really does and I like your buck. It's hard for me to judge specifics just yet. Don't want to talk out of my behind! But I am excited to see related goats to the lines I am considering who are very correct and successful as milk and show goats. :thumbup:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

thanks.. i really love my buck kevin.. though i haven't gotten to use him at all this year.. because i sold my other buck and bred all my does to him before he left... he was a nice buck.. but i had to downsize from 20 + to 8 for the winter.. and i'm planning on retaining a buck out of either surfbird or bebop from next year out of that buck. he's the sire to my black and white doe kid that i just LOVE


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

That's how I feel about my buck  Just looove him. But I won't get to use him for some time. At the earliest - If I get one of the junior does, I might see summer kids from him. Otherwise, it'll be like a year a half! Bugger! But I know it will be worth it :drool: I can't wait to see his level topline, beautiful coloring, well set head/cheek bones/ears, and his momma's and momma's momma's udders on some girls around here! :wahoo: 

Do you have any pictures of kids out of Kevin? (Besides Rigby)


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

yea here's some

he had another litter at a friends house here in town.. a really nice looking solid black buck kid and a little buckskin doe who was very dairy


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Aw so cute! Thank you so much! I love the look of "penny lane." And talk about some COLORFUL buck kids! The doe at the bottom does look peculiar with her hips being higher then her shoulders lol but I can see how that would be caused by a hill.

I can't wait for this snow to clear up so I can go meet the doelings and gets some nice pictures for everyone to see!

I went fishing around at the farms that Shannon suggested and found some pretty does from Adobe Acres and Castle Rock. The ones at Castle Rock are related to the Sire of the Sire of the two doelings at Hoofin It Ranch. I am happy about that as they are very nice prospects with promising lines. The Adobe kids are all adorable, though everyone in general is very young and it's hard for me to see the rights and wrongs just yet. I'll add the links below if you would like to have a glance. I am going to wait until I meet the Hoofin It group before inquiring with another farm.

http://www.adobeacres.com/Forsale.html

http://www.castlerockfarm.net/forsale.html


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i love debbie's doe lucky clover.. 

i also love the animals from castle rock.. i plan on getting a couple animals from there once i finish school

the hoofin it herd sounds familiar... who is it again?


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Hoofin It is owned by Kat who owns Bojangles as well as his two daughters that I am considering (well, I only want to get one) - that's of course Athena and Aurelia. 

I really like both the Adobe and Castle Rock goats. But I might wait until after we move and I have the 12 stall set up before going for them!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Whoa, took me a while to get through all of that. :wink:

I really like Castle Rock and am pretty certain we will be purchasing a buck kid from them next year. :clap:

First off, I wanted to say that I didn't choose for Iris to be bred to Royal Blue. Her owner decided that. I can say for certain that this cross *proved* outstanding in producing beautiful kids with great general appearance. Udders, well, we won't know that until Roy has some freshened daughters (March!) His dam, Tasonni is a GORGEOUS doe for general appearance but I agree with others on the comments about her mammary system. She was shown against some of the top show does at a large show, but Oregon's competition is not as great as other states.  I've seen her and her udder "in person" and she is very beautiful, photos do not do her justice at all. 
Iris' udder does need improvement and her capacity could definitely be more but as mentioned, no goat is perfect and her mammary system is very decent for her bloodlines. I love her long teats/wide orifices that make milking super easy! Her fore udder is also very smooth (could have slightly more extension but not bad at all). The only thing I would really change about her overall conformation would be to give her a little sharper withers (once again, not that bad, I'm just super picky and notice EVERY flaw!) Dhe is incredibly long-bodied (like a freight train!)

I didn't get a chance to look at the other does. For new additions, since you are willing to travel, I would most definitely look at Castle Rock Farm. She has beautiful animals and is very sweet to deal with.


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks Olivia. I really appreciate the honest opinion of both Iris' pros and cons! :thumbup: 

This thread definitely took off today! It's been amazing. I have learned a lot today! :hi5: 

Castle Rock's kids are gorgeous. But I also have to be good and say "I can buy from them in Spring, or next year." I mean, I have to say that about everyone because I want Iris and one other. So, with a dozen to choose from between Castle Rock, Hoofin It, and Adobe I have to make a good choice and also consider price and travel expenses on top of complimentary aspects of each line as well as each doe, breeding, potential, etc. SO much to think about it! But it's all worth it!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i think i may have shown against her before.. i dont remember


but my friend bought a buck out of honey heart this year... he is gorgeous!!!! i'm going to breed a doe to him this next year. they have really nice animals.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

> but my friend bought a buck out of honey heart this year... he is gorgeous!!!! i'm going to breed a doe to him this next year. they have really nice animals.


Oooh! That's the doe I am hoping to purchase a buck kid out of! I really, really like her and Purple Rain and Alum Root, but I think Honey Heart is my fav.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

he's out of honey heart by mr lincoln.. named yankee doodle.. or as i call him the doodle butt

my favorite does are sunsprite, honey heart, honey bee, alum root and arroyo lupine. but all her does are nice..


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I inquired about the doeling out of Rosasharns Sitka Spruce and Lost Valley's Infinity. I like both parents and the look of this little girl. We'll see...I figured if I am going to bring a doeling home, might as well make it the PERFECT choice! 



...Choices choices choices...


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

yea that little doe looks pretty..


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I'm really impressed with her mother's DHIA report at 1 year and all her titles. After looking closely at Infinity, I got all excited and just had to find out if the doeling was still available! Plus she's a cuties with nice colors - love that mask :drool:


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Quick little update: the doeling I want is available. The other has sold. Hoping to go down this week to pick her up if everything pans out. Woohoo! 

Asked lots of questions and I am hoping to get more pictures before I make up my mind...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

pennylullabelle said:


> Quick little update: the doeling I want is available. The other has sold. Hoping to go down this week to pick her up if everything pans out. Woohoo!
> 
> Asked lots of questions and I am hoping to get more pictures before I make up my mind...


which doeling?


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Haha...DUH! lol I've only asked everyone to help me assess a handful! :cheers: :hammer: 

The doeling at Castle Rock out of Sitka Spruce and Infinity.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

CRF Castle Rock Z51 (doe) from here? http://www.castlerockfarm.net/forsale.html


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

Yup, that's the one.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

does she have any updated pictures of her? 

I think she is pretty


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

In my last email I asked for updated pictures. I will post them when I get them. 

She is very pretty. I love her momma as well


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

infinity is a nice doe who mils well.. can't go wrong with her


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

Congratulations on all your new additions!! Can be fun putting a new herd together! 
Sorry my computer went out for a few days.... think SDK did a good job telling you more about Kay's lines. I knew Kay when we were in CA as she used to come out to a lot of the CA shows. She had some really nice goats back then but I am out of the loop as far as what a lot of those breeders have now other than if they have a webpage. Both doelings looked nice to me from the photos.

We knew Sarah & Andy(Castle Rock) and Debbie Toomey (Abobe Acres) and Penny Hamers (Copper Penny) also when we lived down that way. The day I got my first Nigerian a buck(to breed mini Toggs) Copper Penny Black Tie Affair at Penny's Debbie was also there. Had talked to Debbie first and she turned us toward Penny but she came over to meet us as well and brought us her goat milk soaps even though she didn't really even know us. They are both the nicest ladies you could meet. 
Debbie always sells her best goats as she keeps a very small herd and they are WAY too cheap for the quality. Good thing we don't live closer!
Thinking Sarah got into goats about the same time we got into Nigerians. Her herd has come a long way. She has a nice doe out of our buck Rebel and also has Rebel's litter brother Montego Bay who Penny & Debbie have also used quite a bit.
Hopefully MB is still breeding this year...last I heard he may not. Rebel is going sterile so this will most likely be the last year for him. 

~Shannon


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