# Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! HELP!



## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Ok so I am working with my two doelings cause we have a show the begining of June..... Well one is comming along nicly..... the other one..... not so much! :hair: When we lead her she is OK if we have the Sr. does in front and the other Jr. doeling behind her, but when she has had enough she yells like we are killing her and she drops her head and lets it hang there..... I pull her along anyway but she start caughing and choking....

Then we work on seting her up.... :GAAH: she flops around, yells, throws her head around I have no clue what to do!!!!! she is a *D-R-A-M-A *Queen and and I'm not worried about the yelling.... she was born yelling! :roll: I just dont know what to do! Please HELP!!!!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Could you try training her with a pronged collar then swicth to a chain? I don't think dairy people show with them but for breaking a goat they work. I did it with my difficult wether last year and he learned very quick to walk on a chain and behave.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I used to have a gorgeous 4 year old ND doe that had never been handled before in her life. The first three years I showed her, she behaved just like the goat you are describing. As she got older she calmed down and by her fourth year, she was perfect. I even won master shwoman with her. Basically, it just takes time. Just be patient and I bet she will come around, even if it takes a while.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Danni-1995,
We use leather collars to show.... I could try that but I would rather use that as my last choice.....


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Tori,
I don't know what to do with this doe! When she was around 1 1/2 - 2mo. my little sister and I were leading her and trying to get some pics...... she desided she DID NOT want to be lead any more so she droped to the ground and just layed there for 5min.!!!! She makes me :hair: :GAAH:

I hope I can find something that will help and she shapes up by June 2nd!

I feel bad cause she is my little sister's goat and she will be using her for 
4-H.... I don't think she will be winning fitting and showmanship classes...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I've had them pass out. Pretty scary. The prong collar is the way to go. I've never had one pass out with that and they fight less. I believe it is actually more humane for the big fighters. Use a light touch with it when they are being good.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I think I would freak out if she passed out! 
I am just scared she will poke holes in her neack! I wouldn't pull like I do with a leather one but she puls and squrims.....


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*



J.O.Y. Farm said:


> I think I would freak out if she passed out!
> I am just scared she will poke holes in her neack! I wouldn't pull like I do with a leather one but she puls and squrims.....


Kinda what I thought too, but what happens is they are too smart to hurt themselves. It doesn't poke holes even if they do pull though.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

That makes me feel better I will try that.......


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## apachedowns (Mar 14, 2010)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I had the same problem with some of my little ones...we used broken up animal crackers in front of her to intice her...she followed very willingly..LOL you may just have to find a treat she likes and when she is walking put it in front of her and give her a few minutes to lead without the fighting and give it to her, stop and pet her, then do it again. ALso if the babies didn't walk we also picked them up, walked a few feet and put them down...we found they didn't like to be carried even more so finally decided to walk on their own at which time they got the treat and seemed to be successful. Just thought maybe you could try those techniques and see if that works.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I will try the treats (she will eat anything you put in front of her :roll: ) Picking her up wouldn't help.... she LOVES to be picked up!!!


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

For some goats, treats work wonders. You can even feed her her whole dinner while leading her around. When she starts doing that well, give her less and less food while walking until eventually the only time she gets a treat is after you have worked with her. In my opinion, positive reinforcement works better than prong collars. Also, what i see a lot when people are showing unrulely goats, is that they lead by the collar with one hand, and grab their tail with the other. Hope she starts getting better for you!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I think I am going to get a pronged colar..... Treats arn't doing anything.... When I get some spare money I will have to pick one up! Thanks for your replies everyone!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I have one like that. She is a huge pill. Treats, nope...Tail trick, nope. Nothing works. She lays down and refuses to get up, she squalls, she chokes herself. I swear she is retarded. I'm pulling for ya!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Thanks! She drives me crazy! She drops her front legs and just hangs there! Urrg!!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Will she go when there is another goat with her? Can you get someone behind her to push?

Ok, now I'm trying to think like my horse trainer here (he's AMAZING!!) the problem is that the feet aren't moving. So, you need to get her feet moving. Don't pull. As you know, when you pull on a horse, the reaction is for the horse to immediately pull backwards. Pull to the side and get a step to the side. Stop. Let her think about it. Maybe even quit for the day. You work with horses so do you see where I'm going with this?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Yes, I see where your going! She will walk when another goat is with her, but only until she dosn't feel like it anymore.... :hair: We have tryed pushing her.... not working. lol! well I have to go to the barn now to feed but will update this when I get back... :wink:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

If she'll walk with another goat. Quit before she does. Then it's YOUR idea and not hers. You'll have to learn to read her to do this and it'll be a fine line. Just like with the horses....don't know if it'll work with goats or not. But hey! why not give it a try?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Yes I agree, stop on a good note, but some days it will be like 2min, or it could be 20..... She is just :crazy: lol! We don't pull on her constantly... we pull (just a stedy presure) until she steps forward then praise and a treat, everything is just on her terms..... :angry:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Ok, trying to think here, but migraine is starting so thinking is fuzzier than usual. hehe You have to make her WANT to move. In other words, NOT moving has to be worse than moving. And moving in your direction has to be the BEST choice. With a horse, you'd make her do circles with a lunge whip til she got the idea and started going where you wanted....don't think that'll work with the goat. just not sure what to tell you right now....think on it and I'll bet you come with a solution.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

lol! i don't think a lung whip would work :laugh: i think i will try the pronged collar....


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Darn. I was hoping you'd try the lunge whip and post a video :ROFL: Wonder what a electric prod would do for her attitude???


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

LOL!!!! :ROFL: :slapfloor: Maybe I should! just kidding! I don't even own a whip, lunge line, yes, lunge whip, no. lol!

not sure... :scratch: but not sure I want to try that one!


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## CapriGem (May 12, 2010)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

I have one like that...she does the opposite most of the time.

She will pull so hard she chokes herself and will drop if i am not careful.

But sometimes she wouldn't budge. :hair:

With her I found that feeding her goodies in the same place (outside the pen) worked wonders. I decided to teach her to eat her grain on the milkstand so she would be introduced to it early.

The trick that worked to get her to lead was to let her get to the feed(once she knew where it was) anyway she wanted.....but for the walk back to the pen i used a thin show collar. I walked her back to the pen..if she stopped I stopped and waited for her to decide to continue "home" towards the pen.

Sometimes I stoppped her until she relaxed, then signaled to her through a light pull upwards and me stepping forward that is was time to walk.

It took a long time and a lot of stops, but now she is going on 5 years old and once i put the show collar on her and give her a slight pull up to let her know it is there, she walks like a star!

Put a regular collar/ leash on her and she will pull you like no tomorrow, but she knows what is expected once the show collar is on.

Good luck with her, once she understands and "gets it' you will be glad you spent all the time and effort with her!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Thanks Jodi


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Well I had a chain collar and tried it.... and she is doing MUCH better!!! not standing/setting up but doing great leading!

sooo.... now to get her to stand STILL!!!!! :GAAH:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Set up/Leading trouble with *D-R-A-M-A* Queen doeling! H*

Last year was my kids first year training goats to lead. Their does were born in early Jan and late Feb. They all seemed to go through a 'phase' where they didn't want to lead, etc. 
Madison was the WORST. Didn't like treats. Did the whole choking, coughing and nearly passing out thing! It was crazy!
We started feeding her a tiny bit of her grain, walk her forward 20 feet, a tiny big more, and eventually she started making the laps around the yard, and each day got a tiny better. Then she'd fall off the wagon again LOL
We took the girls up to the fairgrounds and walked them around, and she did great! Didn't want to set up, but leading her around the grounds she liked that.
We took them to a 4-H meeting where they wanted the kids to bring in a project animal to practice with, and she tried laying down and being naughty. 
We were WORRIED, because they had a show a week after that and I didn't think she'd make it LOL

She was basically PERFECT through the show. After that she was a pro. Second show she wanted to GO. In fact, it was hysterical, in showmanship they had the kids trade goats. Other kids were having to drag some goats, and Madison was dragging the kid LOL!! I felt bad for him, he had no idea what he got himself into...heh.
For a 'mutt' goat, she did great, and seemed to really love showing 

My son and daughter will be training Madison's twin girls who just turned 4 weeks old. Going to start getting them used to getting a dog collar put on and a little pressure, then try a leash and gradually get them used to it. BUT, they are getting 2 fullblood boer girls in a month since they aren't weaned yet, and I think we may be pulling our hair out, since they will be older...I hope I am wrong LOL


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