# What is G6S?



## keren

This came up in another thread but I cant remember what it was or whether it was answered?

What is G6S and why are some nubians tested for it?


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## lissablack

G6S is a genetic defect that is found in nubians. It was discovered in the 80s when they were researching it because I guess some people have it. That is why money has been spent on it, and we know about it and have a test for it. It is found in nubians, the famous buck Hallcienda Frosty Marvin was a carrier, and his genes were spread all through the nubian gene pool before anyone had ever heard of it. There is an article about it here http://calmgentledairygoatfarm.webs.com/g6sarticle.htm. Two other links about it I had bookmarked are gone. Here is another one, though, that is still there - http://jekuthiel.com/G6S.html

Goats who are affected die. Sometimes they live long enough to breed. Especially bucks. Carriers do not die, they spread it. Goats who are G6S normal do not have the defect. Some estimates are that 25% of the nubian herd in the US are carriers. Don't know if that is even close to true. I do know that lots of people who have nubians don't want to talk about it. It matters to me because kinders are half nubian.


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## Goat Song

^Yep. Lissablack explained it perfectly. As you get deeper into the Nubian world, you start learning which bloodlines are carriers and which are not. Most breeders avoid talking about it, and some of the more well-known breeders will refuse to let you test their goats (if you're wanting a kid from them, but want to check the status of the parents, that is), even if you are the one paying for it. They've put too much into their goats, and the last thing they want is for people to learn that they're positive for G6S. I'm still learning the ins and outs of who is a carrier and who is not. But I have a pretty good idea of which bloodlines to stay away from; even though the goats themselves are gorgeous... I'm still working on testing my goats for G6S.


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## Stacykins

Goat Song said:


> Most breeders avoid talking about it, and some of the more well-known breeders will refuse to let you test their goats (if you're wanting a kid from them, but want to check the status of the parents, that is), even if you are the one paying for it. They've put too much into their goats, and the last thing they want is for people to learn that they're positive for G6S.


That doesn't seem like a very ethical practice to me. Trying to ignore or cover up the problem doesn't mean it isn't there. Do a lot of people avoid breeders who refuse the testing?


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## TexasRanger

Stacykins said:


> Goat Song said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most breeders avoid talking about it, and some of the more well-known breeders will refuse to let you test their goats (if you're wanting a kid from them, but want to check the status of the parents, that is), even if you are the one paying for it. They've put too much into their goats, and the last thing they want is for people to learn that they're positive for G6S.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't seem like a very ethical practice to me. Trying to ignore or cover up the problem doesn't mean it isn't there. Do a lot of people avoid breeders who refuse the testing?
Click to expand...

It's not very ethical, but some people only see $$$ and don't care about anything else. Its like HYPP in horses. http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/


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## Zarafia

In the Arabian breed of horses there is SCIDS (Severe Combined Immune Defiency Syndrome) where a carrier is unaffected but when bred to another carrier can produce a foal who will die shortly after the effects of colostrum wear off. It's a terribly tragic genetic disease.
One of the most promising stallions of the breed in the 90's, Versace, was discovered to be a carrier. Because of his owner's policy of honesty and refusal to breed to any marer not tested negative Versace went on to become a very influential stallion and there is a general policy of publishing your stallion's positive or negative status.
I don't know about the QH Impressive disease, but Impressive is certainly still an influential bloodline.


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## Itchysmom

I know it's all about the $$$$, but as in the horse world, you would think that Nubian breeders would want to talk about this. Test their herds for carriers and make sure they are not bred to another carrier. I mean, as long as you are careful, it sounds like this can be controlled to a point. I would hate to find out my goats had something that no one talked about and had the kids dying all over the place!


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## naturalgoats

Thought this might be a good thing to read...
http://kinne.net/g6s.htm
and was it on the WSU goat thread?
M>


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## Goat Song

Stacykins said:


> That doesn't seem like a very ethical practice to me. Trying to ignore or cover up the problem doesn't mean it isn't there. Do a lot of people avoid breeders who refuse the testing?


 No, it's not an ethical practice, but that's the way it is. I've seen a lot of Nubian breeders become irate when the topic of G6S comes up. It's not pretty, so most folks keep it hush, hush. Not many people know about G6S, so most breeders don't have to worry about someone wanting to test stock before putting a reservation down. I only just learned about G6S last year from Amos (who isn't on here very often anymore...). I tend to shy away from breeders who refuse the testing, but I don't completely give up trying to get stock from them until I know for sure what their status is. I just send the question out through "the grapevine" and privately ask others if the prospective herd is normal or a carrier. Once you know the main herds that are carriers, it's relatively easy to make an educated guess on what to avoid. But I'm still learning who's who... It's so confusing and dishonest sometimes... :sigh:


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## naturalgoats

The strange thing is that if they could just be honest about it you'd just be careful about your breedings and buyings and the herd could be profitable whereas if they are uptight then people will be on the safe side and avoid the herd entirely...
M.


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## Stacykins

naturalgoats said:


> The strange thing is that if they could just be honest about it you'd just be careful about your breedings and buyings and the herd could be profitable whereas if they are uptight then people will be on the safe side and avoid the herd entirely...
> M.


Exactly my thoughts, too. Honesty is the best policy. And wouldn't awareness of the disease, whether it is in a herd or not, aid in preventive breeding to help weed it out from a herd (if it is there in any form)?


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## Goat Song

Stacykins said:


> naturalgoats said:
> 
> 
> 
> The strange thing is that if they could just be honest about it you'd just be careful about your breedings and buyings and the herd could be profitable whereas if they are uptight then people will be on the safe side and avoid the herd entirely...
> M.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly my thoughts, too. Honesty is the best policy. And wouldn't awareness of the disease, whether it is in a herd or not, aid in preventive breeding to help weed it out from a herd (if it is there in any form)?
Click to expand...

You are both correct; Nubian breeders really need to be more open about their status, so we can work towards eliminating it.

The problem though, is that say you're a well known breeder in the nation.... You have some does that have excelled in the ADGA Nationals, they're milking powerhouses, and folks from not only America, but foreign countries too, are clambering to buy stock from you and will pay up to $1,200 for a single kid. Let's say that doe milks 12 lbs. per day (1 1/2 gallons). That amounts to a possible total of $4,500 from milk ($10 per gallon x's 12 lbs. for 300 days), and she could very well throw twins each kidding season, which could amount to $2,400 for two kids, or if she continues to bear offspring for the averaged eight years of her life, that creates a possible $9,600 from her, just from selling kids. That means you have an animals that could very possibly bring in $6,700 every single year while she's healthy. Now, if you suddenly pull the curtains back and state that this wonder goat has the dreaded G6S, WHOOSH!! Suddenly no one's interested in buying stock from you anymore. There goes your status as a renowned breeder, there goes your doe's status as a player in the breeding field, and there goes your profit.

I've seen this play out from extremely well known breeders. They know EXACTLY what their G6S status in their herd is, but they won't tell you... And it will take you an act of congress to get that testing done. It's just too much of a gamble for these breeders to put their life's work at stake for a disease that barely anyone knows about...


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## ptgoats45

G6S now is much like CAE was when people first discovered it. Breeders who have not tested want to tell themselves there is no way they have that in their herd. The ones that do test, are very strict about what animals they bring in.

The good thing about it though, is if you have a power house doe that is a carrier, breed her to a normal buck and test her kids. Only sell normal kids from her and cull the carriers. Doe kids who are carriers could be sold, but the buyer would need to know exactly what they are getting and if they want to deal with continually testing the doe's kids every year.

Also, G6S is a genetic defect not a disease so unlike CAE where testing is done every year to ensure the status of the goat, once an animal is tested normal for G6S they will always be normal. Normal's bred to normals can not pass it on so it is relatively easy to eradicate if everyone gets on the same page and tests their animals and eventually gets their herds to only normal goats.

If I am buying a goat and the seller refuses to let me pay for testing of the parents or the goat I am buying, I would find someone else to buy from no matter how nice the goats are.


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## .:Linz:.

Well, you learn something new every day... and this is why I love TGS!  Adding a Nubian to the herd sometime in the future is a thought that's been floating around in my head, and I would not have known to even look for something like this.


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## keren

Thanks guys, really interesting discussion. 

Does anyone know if it occurs in Australian Anglo Nubians also? Or does anyone know who I could contact to ask? 

Just wondering if its something I should be testing for alongside CAE and Johnes, wonder if the test is even available in Australia


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## goathiker

We know that the genetic defect never occured in Europe to any extent. Australian goats may be free of it.

If you go on Nubian Talk the is a database file of G6S carriers being created by the breeders. It can help you avoid the gene.
Also, don't forget that this can be in crosses of Nubian also. Is there Nubian in the pedegree of your LaMancha, your Boer, your experimental Alpine?


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## ptgoats45

I would say it is only in US Nubians. Also, if there was a potential for it to be in your Anglo-Nubians there most likely is not a test for it in Australia. Right now there is only one lab in the US that will test for it. I beleive it is because they are the ones with the copyright so no one else is allowed to attempt to test for it. Kind of sucks since they can set the price at whatever and people who really want to know will have to pay the price.


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## keren

thanks

goathiker, we dont have LaMancha or experimental Alpine here ... ?????

And the only Boers imported to Australia were from Sth Africa


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## goathiker

Not yours personally, in general for the discussion.

Nubian crosses are very common in America and many LaManchas were bred up from these crosses.


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## Itchysmom

I was wondering if you had a cross, if the kids from it would get this. Thanks!


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## lauraanimal1

I know this is an older post, but I just learned about this myself. So I am going to check my Lamancha's papers to see if they have a Nubian in the line somewhere. Im guessing that No matter what the Breed is, if it was crossed somewhere down the line then it could be a have the Gene? Im guessing that's what Goathiker was referring too. :question::chin:


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## ptgoats45

Yes, if they have Nubian in them there is a possibility they could be a carrier, although if the Nubian is in there a long time back I would assume it would be a very slim chance.


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## lauraanimal1

Interesting, I wonder if any studies have been done to see how far back they have to be fore they are no longer effect in a mix, Cause otherwise wouldn't you hear of having to be tested in other goats as well that has Nubian in the background? Even a FF F1 mix and on up till it was no longer viable.


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## ptgoats45

I'm not sure if there has been or not. I think a lot of people don't know about it and a lot that do know about it don't want to deal with it. Even with Nubian breeders there are a lot of them that don't test and don't think they need to test. I do wish ADGA would do more to promote the awareness of G6S, at least for new Nubian owners, and also add a spot on the genetics page where if the animal is tested it can be listed right there next to the animals name if he/she is normal, carrier or affected. There is a Yahoo Group (Nubian Talk, I think...) that if you are a member go to the Database and in there is a list of G6S tested animals. It is continually being added to and any one can add to it. I've got all of mine in there. You can even change the listing to group the affected, carriers and normal goats together.


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