# Shredding hay with a chipper/shredder.



## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Hay Folks,
There is much online about feeding shredded hay to livestock and the benefits of it. My shredder turns hay into one inch (or less) pieces, and dusts much of it. I just tried feeding it yesterday with the goats. The goats ate it well when mixed with a grain ration, but ignored it the rest of the day. Continue? Stop? Thoughts please.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Never thought of doing that. I cut hay into small lengths for kids to experiment with.
Maybe they do not want it shredded because it is not in a "natural" format?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Goats don’t really like dust. And I don’t mean dirt dust lol usually they won’t even eat the dust from grain either. Plus you do want longer roughage to keep the rumen happy. So I would stop chopping all their hay. BUT I would can the whole idea! If you can collect the wasted stems, if you have a catch tray on your feeders, not the dirty stuff off the ground. You could chop that and mix with their grain and that will help out with cutting down on waste as well. Plus it shouldn’t be enough to upset the rumen. You might have to mix it with something to kinda bind it together and make it less dusty. Maybe a little cooking oil (everyone seems to have their idea of which one is the best, corn, olive or veggie) or a tiny bit of molasses.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with Jessica.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Never thought of doing that. I cut hay into small lengths for kids to experiment with.
> Maybe they do not want it shredded because it is not in a "natural" format?


Yes, the kids are into it quite a bit.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Day two, and the goats are catching onto it a bit more. I am planning on doing both now, shredded plus 'regular'. The shredded seems like it will be a good filler between feedings of 'regular' hay ... 'cause you know how if you stuff the feeder with more than they want in one feeding they will pull all that extra onto the ground. So, I'm cutting back on the hay at a feeding and then going back and filling the trough with shredded for them to pick at until the next feeding of regular hay.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

GoatKeeper84 said:


> Day two, and the goats are catching onto it a bit more. I am planning on doing both now, shredded plus 'regular'. The shredded seems like it will be a good filler between feedings of 'regular' hay ... 'cause you know how if you stuff the feeder with more than they want in one feeding they will pull all that extra onto the ground. So, I'm cutting back on the hay at a feeding and then going back and filling the trough with shredded for them to pick at until the next feeding of regular hay.


Did you try @Jessica84 's suggestion withe wastage? That should really keep wastage down!.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Did you try @Jessica84 's suggestion withe wastage? That should really keep wastage down!.


The past couple days of feeding less unshredded hay, and shredded there hasn't been much waste. Also, the amount of waste in the trough would be too little to bother collecting and shredding ... most of the waste ends up on the ground.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

How do they like shredded limbs and leaves?


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

I've never heard of shredding hay before feeding. What is the purpose?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It takes less energy to digest the feed, also less time. So if it’s short they can digest the hay, get all the nutrition out of it and send it on it’s way faster and allow the animal to eat more. I have a OLD book (it was my grandpas and he would have been over 100 now so it’s that old) someplace and when I read about chopped hay it mentioned something about chopped being better for the bacteria in the stomach but I am NOT going to even attempt to quote it. I’ll see if I can find the book though.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> It takes less energy to digest the feed, also less time. So if it's short they can digest the hay, get all the nutrition out of it and send it on it's way faster and allow the animal to eat more. I have a OLD book (it was my grandpas and he would have been over 100 now so it's that old) someplace and when I read about chopped hay it mentioned something about chopped being better for the bacteria in the stomach but I am NOT going to even attempt to quote it. I'll see if I can find the book though.


Yes. This is why I decided to try it. I found a university study online recent that said the same thing ... of course I can't find it again or I'd paste it here.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> I've never heard of shredding hay before feeding. What is the purpose?


See Jessica's reply below about easier on the digestion.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> How do they like shredded limbs and leaves?


I've tried it before, and they don't really care for it at all. I put up over 300 (and growing each year) sheaves of tree hay annually, and feed it during the winter.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

GoatKeeper84 said:


> I've tried it before, and they don't really care for it at all. I put up over 300 (and growing each year) sheaves of tree hay annually, and feed it during the winter.


How do you put up tree hay?


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

What is tree hay ?


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> How do you put up tree hay?


I cyclical harvest from trees on a three year rotation, that i've pruned into pollards. I sheave 4' long branches, with baling twine, in 8" diameter bundles and hang them on the pollards to dry for a few day, and then take them to the barn and pile them on top of the hay.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> What is tree hay ?


Dried leafy 4' long branches.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Yesterday was Day 3 of feeding shredded and the goats are really getting onto it. I think it is going to be great for the kids. Instead of pecking away on the ground for things they can fit into their mouths, they can find it fresh in the trough now.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

GoatKeeper84 said:


> Dried leafy 4' long branches.


Any particular type of tree? I just planted 5 black walnut for their anthelmintic properties.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Okay, I can see where chopped hay can be eaten faster - less chewing required. I do not see how it would speed up digestion. Even if you ignore the fact that after chewing the particles would probably be of similar size anyway, chopped hay would not have much more surface area than not chopped hay. Digestion works on the surface of the food items. (part of the reason we chew food)
If goats eating faster is important than this may be worthwhile. There is the extra work of chopping to consider, as well as the extra dust to breathe.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Any particular type of tree? I just planted 5 black walnut for their anthelmintic properties.


Basswood (Tilia Americana), Ash (Fraxinus), Elm (Ulmus Americana), Malus sp., Populus sp., Betula sp., Corylus sp., Salix sp., Alnus sp. ... those are basically in descending order of favored species.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Okay, I can see where chopped hay can be eaten faster - less chewing required. I do not see how it would speed up digestion. Even if you ignore the fact that after chewing the particles would probably be of similar size anyway, chopped hay would not have much more surface area than not chopped hay. Digestion works on the surface of the food items. (part of the reason we chew food)
> If goats eating faster is important than this may be worthwhile. There is the extra work of chopping to consider, as well as the extra dust to breathe.


There is less energy required of the digestion system if you remove it's first task of breaking down the whole plant. There has been much study on the benefit of it, that should not be in question. Usually it is shredded/chopped as part of the ensiling. The question is to whether others are feeding it dry.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Okay, I can see where chopped hay can be eaten faster - less chewing required. I do not see how it would speed up digestion. Even if you ignore the fact that after chewing the particles would probably be of similar size anyway, chopped hay would not have much more surface area than not chopped hay. Digestion works on the surface of the food items. (part of the reason we chew food)
> If goats eating faster is important than this may be worthwhile. There is the extra work of chopping to consider, as well as the extra dust to breathe.


I have not had the time to rip my house apart to look for that book but I did a search on google real fast and this is a pretty interesting article with good information. Of course everything is done on cattle and I honestly do not know if it would make a difference with goats or not since they do have smaller mouths and I'm sure can get the hay smaller then cattle do. One of my 10 year plans is to get a tractor with a PTO for this grinder I picked up for $100 at a auction and see if there is a difference in weight gain but of course I always find a million other things to spend money on.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I guess probably attaching the article would be helpful :eyeroll:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

https://www.producer.com/2013/06/chopped-hay-allows-more-digesting-bacteria/


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

@GoatKeeper84 I found this article, sounds very interesting. Going to research some more.

https://www.agricology.co.uk/field/blog/tree-hay-forgotten-fodder

Got it.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Dwarf Dad said:


> @GoatKeeper84 I found this article, sounds very interesting. Going to research some more.


I think you forgot to paste it ... 'cause I don't see it DD.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

GoatKeeper84 said:


> I think you forgot to paste it ... 'cause I don't see it DD.


I found it again. Postedand pasted.lol
May as well do it again.

https://www.agricology.co.uk/field/blog/tree-hay-forgotten-fodder


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

Dwarf Dad said:


> I found it again. Postedand pasted.lol
> May as well do it again.
> 
> https://www.agricology.co.uk/field/blog/tree-hay-forgotten-fodder


great article thank you!


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Hmm ... guess y'all haven't been too informed on tree fodder yet, eh? Shana did a wonderful intro video a few years back. Check it out ... and there is a lot more out there now. Also check out the "Tree Hay" facebook group.


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

Btw, I don't know what 'day' I'm on for having started feeding the goats shredded dry hay, but they come running for it now and chow down on it! This is going to be a real game changer for me.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

That was a great video! I am not on Facebook. Personal reasons. @Trollmor should know some of these things.
It sure makes me wish I had some land.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

For you guys doing tree hay how often when do you harvest the branches? Only once in the fall but before leaves drop? like pruning? Throughout the year?

Also do any of you know if goats like Douglas speraea? I have huge stands of this stuff but most of its greenery is too high off the ground (8 - 10 ft tall). I've thought of taking my brush cutter to it to make "hay".


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

I hope to understand what I should know after having been able to look at the film! Not this week, though.

- Hm. If you mean _'hamla'_, I only know it is delicious for goats in the winter, but ooohhhh, how much work to gather and dry!


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## GoatKeeper84 (Dec 8, 2017)

ScottE said:


> For you guys doing tree hay how often when do you harvest the branches? Only once in the fall but before leaves drop? like pruning? Throughout the year?
> 
> Also do any of you know if goats like Douglas speraea? I have huge stands of this stuff but most of its greenery is too high off the ground (8 - 10 ft tall). I've thought of taking my brush cutter to it to make "hay".


Most of my TH is harvested around the full moon in August. I'm in Ontario Canada. Not familiar with D. Spirea


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

D. Spirea: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Spiraea_douglasii

It's unfortunately native her and not considered invasive but it grows into huge monocultures and chokes out everything else


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I looked for information about D. Spirerea, all things that I found said limited forage use because of low nutritional value. Also deer resistant.
A good place to look.
https://www.feedipedia.org
D. Spirea not in it.


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## Betty Lou Wilson (Apr 19, 2019)

We just had twins born it was the does second time she had the babies and don't want nothing to do with them we held her down so the babies could nurse several times how many times should we let them nurse a day and if I bottle feed what milkman I mix up for them?


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Betty Lou Wilson said:


> We just had twins born it was the does second time she had the babies and don't want nothing to do with them we held her down so the babies could nurse several times how many times should we let them nurse a day and if I bottle feed what milkman I mix up for them?


It would be better to start your own thread, more people will see it. If you bottle feed, the best is from the goats' mom. If you cannot do that, just get milk from grocery store, red top vitamin d milk. Never skim milk, they add water to it.
@ksalvagno @goathiker @toth boer goats


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Keep trying with mom. Push her up against the fence or the side of the barn and keep latching the kids on. I usually give mom 24 hours to figure it out. You can keep going longer if you have the time. Nursing from mom will keep you from having to milk her to give a bottle to the kids or buying milk. If that’s a no go then I agree about the whole milk. Replacer is harder to digest and is known for having soy which upsets their tummies.
Let me know if you need help making a new thread


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Do? They? Add? Water? To? It? ???
mg:
Here, that would for sure end up in court!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

In Oregon we use Willow, Alder, and big leaf Maple for tree hay. 
The idea is to polard enough trees that you can skip. 
Willows harvested every 2 years, Alders every 3, and Maples every 5. You can put a lot of trees in an small space though. 
Add in nettle hay, fodder turnips, radishes, mangles, zucchini, winter squash, and brush leaf hay (salmonberry, cloud berry, Oregon grape, black caps), pea vine hay. Rake up fallen oak leaves into slow feed hay nets. A few peanut bags of acorns and hazelnuts. You make a ginormous dent in your winter feed bill.


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