# Alfalfa vs. Grass hay



## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

Which is better? I was told only alfalfa when pregnant or nursing. But in alot of things I read I see alot of people feeding alfalfa over grass hay. My understanding was that alfalfa is richer and if to much is eaten it could cause bloat? Could someone shine some little on this for me please? 


On another note I have two does bred, now just have to wait the 30 days to see if either comes back into heat... kid fever has set in. So excited!!!


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

It shouldn't cause bloat .... I feed free choice alfalfa...if they haven't been on alfalfa start with a half flake each each feeding and work your way up. Alfalfa is the best. Other that leafy forage my my opinion.
Congrats on the breeding! U should only have to wait 21 days


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## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

Woohoo on 21 days! Lol thanks for the imput on the alfalfa. We have been debating if we should switch them over.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with what has been said. 

Alfalfa is really good for preggo's.
Grass hay doesn't have a lot in it for them.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I feed alfalfa to everything, year round. It's the best hay you can feed, IMO.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Better can be subjective depending on where you live and your set up.

Alfalfa hay has a greater nutritional value than grass hay. So, it's better that way but that doesn't necessarily mean alfalfa hay is better for you and your herd. Alfalfa hay costs a lot more than grass hay in most places. In my area a 50 pound bale of alfalfa is four times more expensive than a 65 pound bale of native prairie grass (mix of love grass and bluestem mostly (averages 8-9% protein). Alfalfa is one and a half times more expensive than Bermuda hay (mine tests between 12-14% protein).

Alfalfa hay's cost and my goats habit of wasting a lot of it, all add up to alfalfa hay not working for my herd. When my does are in late stage pregnancy or lactating they get alfalfa pellets. They get the calcium and extra protein they need and there's no waste. Much more cost effective for me and I know exactly how much alfalfa each doe is getting. Bucks get alfalfa pellets to balance their grass hay.

Alfalfa hay shouldn't make them bloat as long as you offer only a little and then gradually work their way up.

Lots of different ways to feed our goats. Pick a hay that works for you and your herd.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

LadySecret said:


> Better can be subjective depending on where you live and your set up.
> 
> Alfalfa hay has a greater nutritional value than grass hay. So, it's better that way but that doesn't necessarily mean alfalfa hay is better for you and your herd. Alfalfa hay costs a lot more than grass hay in most places. In my area a 50 pound bale of alfalfa is four times more expensive than a 65 pound bale of native prairie grass (mix of love grass and bluestem mostly (averages 8-9% protein). Alfalfa is one and a half times more expensive than Bermuda hay (mine tests between 12-14% protein).
> 
> ...


I wish we could get cheap grass hay where I am. Here a 2 wire 70 lb bale of alfalfa is $7-10 and a 2 string Bermuda is $9-12! Timothy is nowhere to be found and orchard has to be shipped in by the truck load. The only way to get cheaper grass hay is to get large round bales which are $60-120 depending on where you get them. Large alfalfa bales are $100-200.

My horses get free choice big round coastal Bermuda or tifton bermuda with alfalfa fed once a day. My goats usually just get alfalfa. But I just got a large bale of sudan/alfalfa mix for $65 and am forking that to them. It's more sudan than alfalfa so they get 1 flake alfalfa for every 3-4 goats plus all they can eat sudan a day.


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## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

Where I am it's a horse a piece really. Price is based off crop, 1st 2nd 3rd. The alfalfa we just got we paid $4 a bale (2nd crop) and that is considered expensive here. Grass hay is usually a Timothy mix and that you can find for about $2.50 to $3.00 a bale (1st and 2nd crop) third crop grass hay around 3.00 to 4.00 a bale. So for me it costs about the same to feed either or. We do only deal in small bales tho so large bales do cost more.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

SummerSun, I wish I could get alfalfa that cheaply! I'd feed it instead of grass hay. I will say that Timothy hay is expensive in my area too. It's really only fed to horses that need. 

ValleyHaven, it sounds like cost isn't a factor for which hay you choose. That's great! But it makes me hurt a little when you say $4 per alfalfa bale is on the expensive side! Lol


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

I too have to look at cost vs waste when buying hay. I also have opted to use alfalfa pellets.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I feed both when possible. I don't feel that alfalfa has quite the amount of fiber they need. Plus grass may have of nutrients that alfalfa doesn't have.


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## RaineyDayFarms (Oct 10, 2013)

So does anyone want to ship that $4 a bale alfalfa down here? Lol

since cost isn't an issue I see no reason to not feed it. I would transition over slowly. But I've not heard of it causing bloat. 

I feed a mixture of both alfalfa and grass hay as well as chaff hay. I much prefer Alfalfa for everyone. Especially for pregnant does. 
It is about $27 a bale(90-100 pounds) and coastal is $9 for small 40-50 pound abales. We were able to put up a good number of quality coastal rounds this year for the horses.


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## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

I live in Wisconsin, hay used to be even less soo that's why I say 4 dollars a bale is high. Alfalfa of good quality is hard to find tho. I had no idea hay was so expensive elsewhere. It does sound like you all have more to choose from for grass hay tho. I can only find Timothy hay. Not many people plant Bermuda or any of the other kinds that have been mentioned.


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

Here alfalfa is usually 6.50-7.00 for a 50-60 lb bale. I just bought a Timothy/grass hay mix with a very small amount of alfalfa for 4.75 a bale. I feed this to the dry does and kids (Kids get grain too). I feed a higher 16% Timothy/alfalfa mix to my milkers


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm another that looks at the cost vs. waste. Where I am Alfalfa is $24 a bale! Vs. coastal which is $9 per bale. So I feed free choice coastal and give them alfalfa cubes. They also have Tons of leafy greens all over their "area", so they are not lacking in the Green nutrition department I think. My question on feeding is grain....do you guys feed grain to your goats? And if so, how often? I have my horse in with part of my little herd (for companionship) so of course they get fed grain every day, because I feed the horse, and they would just steal it anyway! Haha. But recently I was speaking to someone else who has goats locally and he was saying he gives them nothing but minerals! They completely live off of the leaves and growth on his property. I was kind of surprised that was enough to sustain them, but maybe I just don't know because I'm still in my first few years of goat raising? My worry now is am I hindering them by feeding grain every day? Is that too much "heavy" food for them? Sorry to intrude in on your thread with my questions! Your question just brought mine back to my mind. Thanks all!!


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## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

Your not intruding on my question! We are all here to learn! I feed my goats a little grain and BOSS in the morning. For three goats in together they get about a cup of grain. For the four in together they get about a cup and a quarter maybe a little more.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Ok good. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't just Fattening them up! Mine are such little piggies! They act like they've never eaten before each time I feed them. they get 2 cups split between 5 of them each day (and whatever they can steal from the horse! Tho she does a pretty good job of keeping their little heads from getting up in her bucket lol)


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## valleyhavengoats (Aug 29, 2015)

Ya it's pretty much just enough to keep them from screaming their heads off.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Hi sorry to bump an old thread but is related.... as you can know, alfaalfa hay cost much more then usual hay, I will buy for the first time alfaalfa today, from a professional company, dehydrated, with certificated minimum 16% proteins. Is this enough proten for boer goats? They will receive like 1/3 alfaalfa in their diet, I can`t afford that they eat only this... But this company sales bales that are also around 20% proteins, so I am just wondering would is the 16% protein alfaalfa enough? I also feed them mix hay, they are on pasture and receive daily a cop or corn, barley, triticale. Thank you


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The 16 is fine.


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## LuvmyNubians (Jan 20, 2018)

I pay $5 a bale for alfalfa mix. I also use pallets as Hay mangers. It cuts down on waste tremendously.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

LuvmyNubians said:


> I pay $5 a bale for alfalfa mix. I also use pallets as Hay mangers. It cuts down on waste tremendously.


 How much kg/lbs is a bale at you? I am going to pay $350 (275eur) for 1 tone (2200 lbs), delivered in squared bales at around 700lbs each. For 3 tones I am going to get 9-10 big squared bales.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If you are worried about them having enough protein, I would stop feeding the corn, which is very low protein.

Give them the best hay you can afford (in my opinion an alfalfa/grass mix is fine) and then evaluate from there regarding concentrates such as grain. For one thing, harsher climates, or rougher living conditions, both require more concentrates. If your climate is mild and they don't have a lot of stress, then you may find that the hay is close to all they need.

Do you have the ability to substitute oats for your corn in your grain mix? That would be better, imo. More nutritious. Let your grass hay provide the bulk their rumens need.

I think you have a good idea, to provide some excellent quality alfalfa to mix with your good quality grass. But I'd eliminate the corn. Not enough nutrition, and concentrated nutrition is why we feed grain.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> If you are worried about them having enough protein, I would stop feeding the corn, which is very low protein.
> 
> Give them the best hay you can afford (in my opinion an alfalfa/grass mix is fine) and then evaluate from there regarding concentrates such as grain. For one thing, harsher climates, or rougher living conditions, both require more concentrates. If your climate is mild and they don't have a lot of stress, then you may find that the hay is close to all they need.
> 
> ...


No no they need grain for sure, corn also is good, I don`t have oats to offer them. Corn makes the mums have more milk and energy, and they love it more then anything else  . I also buy them special pellet food with high proteins level to balance the grain. And I feed the right Ca level. I was just asking about the alfalfa quality you use. At the end each climate is different and I feed my goats base on their condition score, not a specific copy/paste diet


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

MontanaBoers said:


> Corn makes the mums have more milk...


Not really, but OK.

I thought you were asking about protein levels. If that was sufficient for your Boers. My mistake.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Not really, but OK.
> 
> I thought you were asking about protein levels. If that was sufficient for your Boers. My mistake.


Yop that`s what my vet said


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I was asking for protein levels in alfalfa


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I understand. My input was off base as to what your inquiry was about. My bad.

Your vet is mistaken, corn makes fat, not milk. I feed skinny milkers corn when I need to put weight on them, not make them produce more milk and get skinnier. Protein makes milk in all mammals. If a nursing human mother ate candy, she would have energy from the sugar high, but not make more milk. Same with goats. Same with all mammals. Corn is high calorie/low nutrition all around (Maybe Europe has better corn than the US, which is ENTIRELY possible) and can not make more milk. But it can, and does, put weight on mammals.

When someone is asking me about protein levels being sufficient (like I thought you were, my mistake) and also tells me they are feeding corn, my initial response is,

"If you are worried about them having enough protein, I would stop feeding the corn, which is very low protein."

That is why I said it to you. No insult was meant.


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## LuvmyNubians (Jan 20, 2018)

MontanaBoers said:


> How much kg/lbs is a bale at you? I am going to pay $350 (275eur) for 1 tone (2200 lbs), delivered in squared bales at around 700lbs each. For 3 tones I am going to get 9-10 big squared bales.


They are about 60 pound bales
for $5 each. I have gotten big square bales that were $100-$125 for each one weighing roughly 1500 pounds. I only get those when small bales aren't available.


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi!!!
New to this forum. Just getting my herd started this past year. Right now I have 8 expectan females. Was reading everyone’s comments on hay. I have grass hay and I am learning from all of you that alfalfa hay is better. If I buy the pellets to feed along with my grass hay what is the amount per goat per day I should feed. Thanks, Kellie


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What kind of goats do you have, what do you need them to do for you, and what kind of climate are your goats exposed to?

Alfalfa is not always a requirement, you see. In fact, there is one highly respected member who does not feed alfalfa at all, so more information can help us to accurately answer you.

BTW, I can't get good alfalfa hay, myself. The pellets are my answer, too.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, and :holidaywelcome:by the way.


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks, I have 3 scanner goats 11years,9years,7years old, grandmother, mother and daughter. They were my daughters 4H goats. I do milk the younger two after I wean the babies. I love to make mozzarella cheese.
The other goats are all boer goats that I just started getting this past spring/summer.they are all under 2 years of age. I have 7 including my buck.
I live in central PA.


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

Oppps, that is saanen. Spell check changed that


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

My 11 year old Saanen had pregnancy complications 3 weeks ago. Found her out in the pasture, she could not walk without assistance. Got her in a stall by herself. Called the Vet. He gave me some poly glucanate? I spent 6 days standing her up 3-4 times a day and by the 6th day she stopped eating and drinking and it took 2 of us to get her up. I called the vet and insisted on a C-section. We had 4 beautiful babies that did not make it past 1.5 hours. The doe took a while to recover but she’s is doing great now. 
The Vet said that with the 3 weeks of extremely cold weather, her age and having 4 just drained her. He gave her calcium and we bought alfalfa hay to give her. 
Sad that the. Babies did not make it but I almost lost her and the babies. She is our first goat, we have had her since she was 3 months old. Hoping not to breed her again. Hoping to have her for many more years


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm carrying firewood now, but wanted to say, you are right, you do need alfalfa in some form or other. We'll be back.

If you start your own thread, you may well have more help


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

It was regular comments on these forums that made me switch to alfalfa for my pregnant does last year, thinking it was a better choice. Alfalfa is cheaper and more available in my area so I thought it would be a win. The goats love alfalfa and tend to clean up every scrap, and I also love what it does to our milk flavor and production. 

BUT, we had issues with selenium deficiency last year to the point where we had birthing problems and crooked legs in the babies. Every single doe needed help delivering last year, and every single kid was at least somewhat malpositioned. More than half of our babies had crooked legs and had to be given selenium. We also had copper deficiencies like I've never seen before. 

Where I live, there is no reason on earth why we should have selenium deficiencies because our soil is heavy with it. I researched the issue and discovered that alfalfa is high in molybdenum, which blocks uptake of selenium and copper. There are great things about alfalfa, but I don't believe it should comprise the whole diet. I have a theory that the widespread feeding of alfalfa to goats is why many of them need BoSe shots and constant copper bolusing. I'm sticking with grass hay this year. Our first kidding of this season went smoothly and the kids have straight legs. We'll see how our other does do this spring, but I'm hoping for better results this year. My soil is also very high in molybdenum, so that is also a factor I have to consider when deciding how much alfalfa to feed.


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

Yes, a couple years ago I had a few kids with weak legs and realized that my does were deficient in selenium. I bought a selenium block that they have access to and have not had any kidding problems until this one this year with my 11 year old saanen. I think she had some sort of pregnancy toxemia.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm betting that were alfalfa is grown influences it's molybdenum content. I do have to copper bolus but my water and soil are very iron rich. I've had no issue with selenium whatsoever, but looking at this 2015 molybdenum soil map, my alfalfa is generally grown in an area that's generally molybdenum poor. I wonder if it's worthwhile to look up where your alfalfa comes from, to gauge the mineral content it likely has.

Molybdenum map here (careful, there's a couple of other maps in this paper too):
https://www.researchgate.net/public...TS_IN_SOILS_OF_THE_CONTERMINOUS_UNITED_STATES

My area's soil is also on the higher-- but by no means toxic-- end of selenium. Find your area's selenium (or iron, or copper, etc) here:
https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/countydata.htm


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## tippycanoe (Jul 11, 2016)

So...what exactly is a high or low level of any micronutrient? For example, my area has a mean value for Iron of 1.8, Copper is 12.3, Selenium is .29. What's the best way to use this information??


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

So, when I go and get alfalfa pellets, how much do I feed my goats? Do I need to wet it so it doesn’t cause bloat?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If they are unused to diet changes and unused to alfalfa, then start slowly, with just a bit, like a treat you are offering. You can work your way up from there.

I do not wet my pellets. I don't know anyone who does. I would think a sudden input of alfalfa would cause the bloat, not the dryness of the pellet, because livestock can bloat in an alfalfa field, and you can't get more naturally moist than that.


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## kmoore9184 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks, that was helpful. I really appreciate all your responses.
Oh, by the way. I was out with my hubby cutting wood yesterday too


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Unlike most people on this site, I depend heavily on natural browsing and foraging. My hay is some form of grass or other, usually pretty crappy. I can buy alfalfa hay for a very high price and it is almost always moldy. So my alfalfa is in pellet form. Those pellets are what my milkers get on the stand, and those pellets are what everyone gets as a feed treat to reward them for coming home. 

Mine is not a diet that is very heavy in alfalfa. But I do think it is important to give them this much, because I am asking more of my goats than they would have to supply in the wild.

I do fight many, many antagonists already, and deficient soil, so adding some alfalfa to up the nutrition isn't a very large factor. But for other people it is a large factor.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

tippycanoe said:


> So...what exactly is a high or low level of any micronutrient? For example, my area has a mean value for Iron of 1.8, Copper is 12.3, Selenium is .29. What's the best way to use this information??


I really can't say. I really am hoping someone more knowledgeable will reply to you. I never understood that either.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm not sure what the numbers mean, but looking at the colors on the map lets you compare. My county shows 5.09 +/- 13.32 ppm selenium content in the soil. I'm not sure what that means but I know that every few years, depending on weather patterns, there is a wave of horses that die from selenium poisoning in my area. I lost one from selenium poisoning in 2010. I keep an eye on the manes and tails because when they start to lose them it's an early warning sign. If it continues they will slough their hooves. I keep a sulfur block out during summers when we have a lot of selenium indicator plants in the fields because sulfur binds selenium. This is why if someone in my area is experiencing selenium deficiency in their goats, there's something blocking their absorption because it's not for lack of selenium availability.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I understand. My input was off base as to what your inquiry was about. My bad.
> 
> Your vet is mistaken, corn makes fat, not milk. I feed skinny milkers corn when I need to put weight on them, not make them produce more milk and get skinnier. Protein makes milk in all mammals. If a nursing human mother ate candy, she would have energy from the sugar high, but not make more milk. Same with goats. Same with all mammals. Corn is high calorie/low nutrition all around (Maybe Europe has better corn than the US, which is ENTIRELY possible) and can not make more milk. But it can, and does, put weight on mammals.
> 
> ...


Thank you, my concern was only to alfalfa since its new to me. Thanks for the info. One breeder suggested me to buy Mother`s Milk Tea for goats to put in water and make more milk?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

MontanaBoers said:


> Mothers Tea for goats


That is a new one on me, and google isn't being that helpful. Do you know what is in it?


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> That is a new one on me, and google isn't being that helpful. Do you know what is in it?


https://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Medicinals-Organic-Mothers-Milk/dp/B0009F3POY?th=1 Something like this.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Wow. I have no answer to this idea. I'm afraid my inclination would be to feed some alfalfa. But your goats may really like this. The ingredients sound like things my goats find when browsing, except for the root herb. They don't dig up roots.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I will buy this year alfalfa for the first time and see how they like it.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

tippycanoe said:


> So...what exactly is a high or low level of any micronutrient? For example, my area has a mean value for Iron of 1.8, Copper is 12.3, Selenium is .29. What's the best way to use this information??


I use the info as Damfino suggested; looking at the key in each map tells you the range of highs and lows they've gotten from testing nation-wide. Then zeroing in on your area, you're able to tell if your level of whatever-it-is is low, medium, or high. For example, in comparing the hay grown in your area (.29 ppm) to my area (.54) you'd know right off the bat my animals are likely getting almost twice as much selenium in their diet. Granted there are many factors that go into how much of each mineral plants uptake each year, but it's a good general starting point. If you look at the keys too, you can see that for most minerals, most of the middle values are pretty tight values, but the values for the very high amounts are wide. For example, the color band for selenium in my area is 0.51-0.59 ppm. Compare this to the high end, .75-5.32 ppm; so if you're in a category that has wide variance, you'd know that you're high but not how high. You'd know that your local extension office would likely have information on how high, and that you might be in dangerous territory, for example.

If you're looking for more information, there's well water sampling for a lot of those minerals color coded with safe, borderline, and high levels... I can't find the link right now but it's on usgs site.


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