# Does pregnant or not!?



## JessLoveJ

could anyone help here and tell me if my goats are pregnant? One has an udder and teats that don't stop growing, they had been in a pen with the buck (we now let run loose with the dogs, he's sweet as can be) All August and July. Neither had teats before, especially with white on the tips. A vet came in October and guesstimated by Christmas but nothing! I've checked ligs and they are there one day and gone the next and then back again. One lost a string of mucus two weeks ago, when the udder began growing, but STILL nothing! I am losing my mind!  both does look pregnant with how enormous their bellies and teats have gotten since we had them. They were both so small. And I will add both are FF. The tan goat Anna has more hair so she's more difficult to see every time. The white one Elsa, has less hair so it's prominent and obvious to us each day we see her. Anna's tail has also been hanging for the past two and a half weeks. It was always curled up over her back.


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## JessLoveJ

The second to last photo is before they were bred. From the left, Anna, Elsa and Olaf, the father lol


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## Suzanne_Tyler

They’re probably pregnant. They should kid sometime this month with the dates you gave.


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> They're probably pregnant. They should kid sometime this month with the dates you gave.


Well the problem was, Anna was in a pen full of bucks when I purchased her. Although I don't believe she was bred until arriving here. The woman I purchased them from also stated her does bag up just before giving birth. So is that genetics? Will that more than likely be the case here? Because the white one although heavy and noticeably growing since August, has only started bagging up the past few weeks.


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## Honey21

Wrap ur arms around the belly and feel right in front of udders if there r kids u should b able to feel them if they r five months along


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## Goat_Scout

I love their colors!

Were the pictures in the first post taken recently? It doesn't look like either of them have much of an udder - of course, some does don't bag up until right before or after kidding.


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## JK_Farms

They should kid this month if they're bred....have you felt kids? my guess is that they aren't pregnant


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## JessLoveJ

JK_Farms said:


> They should kid this month if they're bred....have you felt kids? my guess is that they aren't pregnant


I have tried but they don't like me handling them to much. Neither ever had any udder let alone teats that large, they are enormous, at least to us since we aren't used to seeing them that size.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I love their colors!
> 
> Were the pictures in the first post taken recently? It doesn't look like either of them have much of an udder - of course, some does don't bag up until right before or after kidding.


The udders are small but there, I see them well, and beyond the hair, when they lift a leg or squat, neither had anything but small teats when we got them.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I love their colors!
> 
> Were the pictures in the first post taken recently? It doesn't look like either of them have much of an udder - of course, some does don't bag up until right before or after kidding.


Yes, some have been from anywhere from a month ago to recently. Except the one of all three I stated to be back on July. So you could see how small they were and no teats hanging. It's just bizarre.


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## MilkandMeatgoats

If they were with the buck through the end of August, they should kid by the end of January. If they were bred on August 31st for example, their due date would be January 28th give or take a few days. There are several calculators online to help you figure out due dates. If you are seeing their udders fill out, chances are they are pregnant. Just be sure to check in on them often, especially since they are both FF’s. In my experience, labor can sneak up on you with no true warnings and since they may not know exactly what to do your assistance may be required, during or after birth. It took a week of lifting a kid to a FF last year and milking her (feeding it to the kid when she refused) to teach her to stand still and her kid to latch on(persistence is the key here). Hopefully you won’t have any trouble, but it’s always best to be prepared for anything! Hoping your weather is more pleasant than ours is...my best advice...set up heat lamps (if it’s as cold there as it is here) and prepare the area daily like they will give birth that day.


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## Agreenwd888

My goats have lost their mucous plug 4-6 weeks before birthing and start to bag up 4 weeks before =)


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> If they were with the buck through the end of August, they should kid by the end of January. If they were bred on August 31st for example, their due date would be January 28th give or take a few days. There are several calculators online to help you figure out due dates. If you are seeing their udders fill out, chances are they are pregnant. Just be sure to check in on them often, especially since they are both FF's. In my experience, labor can sneak up on you with no true warnings and since they may not know exactly what to do your assistance may be required, during or after birth. It took a week of lifting a kid to a FF last year and milking her (feeding it to the kid when she refused) to teach her to stand still and her kid to latch on(persistence is the key here). Hopefully you won't have any trouble, but it's always best to be prepared for anything! Hoping your weather is more pleasant than ours is...my best advice...set up heat lamps (if it's as cold there as it is here) and prepare the area daily like they will give birth that day.


Thank you so much! Your comment was beyond helpful! All I have is the internet here since I'm in the limited country side of the southern California wine country, so weather wise, I wouldn't mind a cold day lol, but all I have is what I can find online. When I also did the calculators it gave me beginning of January but I feel as though they are not quite there yet. I have a "grab and go bag" ready with surgical gloves, the potty pads, towels, those hospital grade syringes for babies, etc., but I see these giant udders and mine were tiny to start off with as they're dwarf Nigerian goats. Thank you again! And their pen can be seen from my bedroom and I have a baby monitor. We are very excited for baby goats. And I know they have to be breed, they were locked up with the buck for quite sometime. We had no idea you are only to do that until bred. We found out quickly though. And as for keeping an eye on them, I don't think anyone has starred at goats vulvas as frequently or long as I have hoping a hoof breaks through at some point hahaha. I really cannot wait!


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> My goats have lost their mucous plug 4-6 weeks before birthing and start to bag up 4 weeks before =)


Thank you! Let us hope we are 2-4 weeks out because I can't take it anymore! I need goat babies in my life


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## Agreenwd888

I dont know about your breed of goats. But my saanens dont start their first heat cycle until the end of august. Although my buck was in with them the whole summer they did not get bred until late August early september. The first does bred are due to kid early february. =) I also use a marking harness on my buck it helps to calculate accurate due dates.


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## toth boer goats

I see one has a fishtail.

Do they have access to free choice loose salt and minerals?


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## JessLoveJ

toth boer goats said:


> I see one has a fishtail.
> 
> Do they have access to free choice loose salt and minerals?


Yes they get about 4-6 hours of free range daily and plenty of minerals as well as grains. What is the fish tail? She's had it the past couple of weeks.


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## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> Yes they get about 4-6 hours of free range daily and plenty of minerals as well as grains. What is the fish tail? She's had it the past couple of weeks.


If there is a fishtail issue (when the tail hairs actually split into what appears to be two separate sections like a fish tail) there is a lack of copper and a copper bolus should be given. Copper bolus is recommended every 8-12 months but some say they should be given every 6 months.


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## HoosierShadow

Hopefully your girls are bred and will kid soon. I'd bribe them and get a hand on them and gently feel bellies. To me they don't look pregnant, but hard to tell from pictures sometimes. 
Something to keep in mind is precocious udder - where teats and udder grow - even get milk, but are not pregnant. We have a young yearling Purebred Boer doe that has had a precocious udder since around July, she had milk in one side. She was bred in Oct and now her little udder is more even and starting to grow.
Just wanted to tell you about that in case you didn't know.

I agree about copper, we have to bolus ours now and then as well.


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## SalteyLove

I'd have that vet back out, get a blood sample on both, and mail it to a lab for a pregnancy test. It would set you back around $20 but you could stop staring at vulvas so much!


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## JessLoveJ

Well there are no fish tails here from what I can see. Just Anna, the Doe with brown, tail will be down and limp most of the time. I couldn't feel any babies but Elsa the white goat, her udder continues to fill.


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## JessLoveJ

Ok I have one in labor!!! Anna the brown one! She was having labored breathing morning, and still, no eating, she’s having contractions here and there, laying down and getting up, tried to pee but nothing but a bit of stringy mucous coming out. How long of this heavy breathing until I have babies!? AAHHHHHH I’m so excited!!!!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

The heavy breathing can go on for quite some time. Is she pushing any?


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## Goat_Scout

Exciting!


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> The heavy breathing can go on for quite some time. Is she pushing any?


Yes! But then she stops, then she pushes and then she stops and closes her eyes.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

As soon as she's starting to push hard, take note of the time. If she pushes hard for more than 1/2 she needs assistance. Good luck


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> As soon as she's starting to push hard, take note of the time. If she pushes hard for more than 1/2 she needs assistance. Good luck


Thank you for the pointers! Will need all the pointers I can get! She has panted off and on here or there since she lost a bit of mucous back in early November, but today was different. Elsa is herself, nosey, eating and walking around. Anna won't leave the stall or stop panting. Every time she pushes poop came out, I don't think she has anything left in her but kids now lol


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I wonder if she is pushing prematurely. Is her vulva opening?


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I wonder if she is pushing prematurely. Is her vulva opening?


From what it use to be, yes, but not to much. She had a yellow string of mucous come out about an hour ago, stood up for a bit and now is laying back down breathing loud with her head down and eyes closed.


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I wonder if she is pushing prematurely. Is her vulva opening?


She's changing positions again, but no heavy or big pushing, only twice with a grunt when she had contractions. Now she has moved over to her side.


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## JessLoveJ

I assume once she starts to get loud and even more uncomfortable the babies are really coming? She does this weird grunt also, almost like a burp but it’s not.


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## goatblessings

If she has had a long yellow string of mucos and she is now on her side I think she is indeed in labor. As said, if it's over 30 minutes there may be a problem. Go in gently and see if you can help her. Go beyond your wrist. If you hit a wall, she is still closed, if open, She may have a malpositioned kid.


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## goatblessings

When they push hard, they often stiffen their feet - you can tell......


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## JessLoveJ

I have never seen her like this. I mean I watch her everyday and think she’s close but not like today. She hasn’t gone near the feed and she goes crazy for grains. She was trying to sleep and just JUMPED up and then laid back down. She starts to grind and then stops and begins breathing heavily again. I don’t want to move her to check just yet but I am literally sitting right next to her in the pen. We were getting ready to head to Disneyland and said forget it! Goat babies will be much better!!!


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## JessLoveJ

I have never seen stay in one place so long. I want to move her so I can see her vulva and for the first time she's actually letting me sit with her and pet her lol


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## JessLoveJ

First photo was an hour ago. I moved her a bit to get another peak, there is more mucous on its way out! Do I move her or leave her where she is?


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## Goat_Scout

I'd leave her where she is. It might freak her out if you move her.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I'd leave her where she is. It might freak her out if you move her.


Ok, it's really difficult to see though because she has her back up against the fence. I can't get in there if I need to but I'm sure as things progress she will move. It has been a nightmare trying to check ligs, I can't believe she's letting me sit here and pet her


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## Goat_Scout

I know what you mean. I once had a cow that decided to lay down with her bottom up against a small tree while giving birth! It was kind of crazy and the calf was born a little crookedly (the cow just would not move!) but all was well. 

You may have to make her move to check her later on, but I don't know if it's necessary right now. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

Is she still pushing?


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I know what you mean. I once had a cow that decided to lay down with her bottom up against a small tree while giving birth! It was kind of crazy and the calf was born a little crookedly (the cow just would not move!) but all was well.
> 
> You may have to make her move to check her later on, but I don't know if it's necessary right now. Hopefully someone else will chime in.
> 
> Is she still pushing?


Well she just stood up and seems to be having another contraction. Tail is curled.


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## Goat_Scout

That's good!


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## JessLoveJ

How long will she drop mucous like this before she pushes babies out? It seems like it's never ending!


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## Goat_Scout

My latest doe had a very fast birth, but some, especially first fresheners I believe, like to draw it out longer. At the moment I am also watching one of my pregnant FFs, I think she is going to kid soon, but she sure is taking her own sweet time!

Is your doe having strong contractions? If so, how long has she had them?


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## wifeof1

Just when you think you have totally frazzled nerves, add 3 more hours.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> My latest doe had a very fast birth, but some, especially first fresheners I believe, like to draw it out longer. At the moment I am also watching one of my pregnant FFs, I think she is going to kid soon, but she sure is taking her own sweet time!
> 
> Is your doe having strong contractions? If so, how long has she had them?










this is her right now having more contractions and of course, more mucous!  as for strong contractions, I wouldn't say many.


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## JessLoveJ

I feel like the mucous is coming from everywhere


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## Goat_Scout

Poor girl, I always feel so sorry for them, especially if they are dealing with everything quietly (you'd think it'd be the opposite, but for some reason the drama queens don't move me quite as much, lol!). 
And poor you!!


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## Goat_Scout

It's weird how her udder hasn't grown very much, if not at all.


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## JessLoveJ

wifeof1 said:


> Just when you think you have totally frazzled nerves, add 3 more hours.


LOL oh brother  time for a margarita! And of course it's raining here today in sunny Southern California


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## wifeof1

I'm next to the US Mexico border and we don't have any yet. Only a few dark clouds. 
Let's hope she gets it done before dark.


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## JessLoveJ

wifeof1 said:


> I'm next to the US Mexico border and we don't have any yet. Only a few dark clouds.
> Let's hope she gets it done before dark.


Well I will do the rain go away dance and hope it goes your direction!


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## goat girls

oh no don't do a rain dance! You'll get more rain. lol How's your girl now?


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> oh no don't do a rain dance! You'll get more rain. lol How's your girl now?










keeps doing this. Tail goes up and down. Only mucous coming out little by little. This will be the death of me


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## JessLoveJ

This last one her tail went sideways and a little ball of mucous came out. About dime size.


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## goat girls

just breath. But then good luck telling me to breath when my Does are in labor


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> just breath. But then good luck telling me to breath when my Does are in labor


Lol right! I don't know when I should go in and make sure things are progressing. I'm one that does not like to intervene.


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## JessLoveJ

She squats like she’s going to pee but nothing!


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## goat girls

When she squats she is feeling the baby coming down the birth canal and think she has to pee but no really


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> When she squats she is feeling the baby coming down the birth canal and think she has to pee but no really


Thank you! I figured it had to be something along those lines because she has done it three times!


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## goat girls

Yah she's feeling the kid/kids lets go for two smaller Does


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> Yah she's feeling the kid/kids lets go for two smaller Does


I think so too! At least two! But remarkably our even smaller doe Elsa who is also pregnant, has an udder that is much bigger than Anna's, which I knew was more pregnant. Clearly, as here we are lol! But I read somewhere that does carrying less kids and especially does, make less milk than those carrying bucks. I hope that's a tale because we are happy with just one buck lol


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## goat girls

Well if she has bucks you could sell them as breeders or whether them and sell them as pets


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## JessLoveJ

When do I make sure she's dilating? She is just standing there forever


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## MilkandMeatgoats

Any progress?


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Any progress?


A couple of contractions here and there, she's been standing in the same place for quite some time, nothing.


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## goat girls

When she acts distressed I would wash up and go in. But if she was mine I would probably go in now for ease of mind. Follow your gut and if you do go in give her penicillin for four days 1cc per 100#


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> When she acts distressed I would wash up and go in. But if she was mine I would probably go in now for ease of mind. Follow your gut and if you do go in give her penicillin for four days 1cc per 100#


I will "Try" and wait it out. But not sure how much longer I can! @penicillin noted! Thank you for that advice! ️


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## Goat_Scout

My doe (due Jan. 11th but has been acting off today) has been doing the squatting-but-not-actually-peeing thing too. The time seems to pass so much more slowly in the last couple weeks of pregnancy!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> It's weird how her udder hasn't grown very much, if not at all.


I know! That's what was strange but I heard some does don't get one until after they kid and that FF hold them closer to their body. That may be the case for her because she is so incredibly hairy also that I couldn't see an udder if I wanted to. She just more hairy every day.


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> When she squats she is feeling the baby coming down the birth canal and think she has to pee but no really


How long after her doing this three times will she kid?


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## Goat_Scout

JessLoveJ said:


> I know! That's what was strange but I heard some does don't get one until after they kid and that FF hold them closer to their body. That may be the case for her because she is so incredibly hairy also that I couldn't see an udder if I wanted to. She just more hairy every day.


I've heard of that too... but I don't think it's very common. Since your girl is in labor now, she is definitely "one of those does".


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## loggyacreslivestock

JessLoveJ said:


> How long after her doing this three times will she kid?


Once I see long goopy strings of mucus, like all the way from vulva to ground, most of mine go about 12 hours. But some are as dry as can be, lay down on their side and push kids out, all while munching down on hay.
If you've seen hard, roll her eyes back pushes on her side with legs stretched out for more than 30 minutes, you need to go in and check.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Once I see long goopy strings of mucus, like all the way from vulva to ground, most of mine go about 12 hours. But some are as dry as can be, lay down on their side and push kids out, all while munching down on hay.
> If you've seen hard, roll her eyes back pushes on her side with legs stretched out for more than 30 minutes, you need to go in and check.


She lost a bit, more clear like on the 6th of November. Today was more yellow and hanging and continued to come out for the remainder of the day. No kids yet but she's not on the floor like you mentioned. Thank goodness!


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## loggyacreslivestock

When it's go time, she will be on her side pushing hard.


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## HoosierShadow

Original pictures I didn't think she was pregnant because of no udder. Hopefully everything is going well and there are happy healthy babies and mama to contend with!

Our does do the same thing Julie. We also have udders, a few fill last minute, but still a decent udder that I know for sure they are pregnant.


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> Original pictures I didn't think she was pregnant because of no udder. Hopefully everything is going well and there are happy healthy babies and mama to contend with!
> 
> Our does do the same thing Julie. We also have udders, a few fill last minute, but still a decent udder that I know for sure they are pregnant.


I know, we didn't think so either but vet said back in October both were bred. At one point her udder was bigger than Elsa's but lately hers hasn't stopped growing. As for Anna, she seems to get more hair by the second so it's hard to tell. I haven't bugged her to much today to check it again since she has been noticeably uncomfortable but hopefully once on her side I see more of an udder. Have kid colostrum just in case.


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## JessLoveJ

How often do I check on her this evening!? Am I not getting any sleep? She is still panting, laying down most of the time, tail curling here and there then standing, but doesn’t leave her little nest. I’m so stressed out! Heat lamp is on and she is warm and comfortable but I don’t want to miss those babies.


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## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> How often do I check on her this evening!? Am I not getting any sleep? She is still panting, laying down most of the time, tail curling here and there then standing, but doesn't leave her little nest. I'm so stressed out! Heat lamp is on and she is warm and comfortable but I don't want to miss those babies.


I've always been told two hour checks maximum, but then I have had does that were barely showing signs of labor, maybe mucus present but no panting or hard contractions, and I left for an hour and returned to mom cleaning up babies! Go with your gut


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> I've always been told two hour checks maximum, but then I have had does that were barely showing signs of labor, maybe mucus present but no panting or hard contractions, and I left for an hour and returned to mom cleaning up babies! Go with your gut


That's what I'm afraid of!  every half hour it is! Thank you!


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## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> That's what I'm afraid of!  every half hour it is! Thank you!


I've never been good with the whole no sleep thing either but staying up all night for a birth is a piece of cake when compared to bottle babies in my opinion lol. I'd rather stay up and keep mom healthy and let her raise her own kids


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> I've never been good with the whole no sleep thing either but staying up all night for a birth is a piece of cake when compared to bottle babies in my opinion lol. I'd rather stay up and keep mom healthy and let her raise her own kids


Lol! Exactly! And be sure they are cleaned, dried and given to mama. There's a heat lamp above to keep everyone warm but I'd feel so much better knowing I did my part to be sure everything went as smoothly as possible.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> My doe (due Jan. 11th but has been acting off today) has been doing the squatting-but-not-actually-peeing thing too. The time seems to pass so much more slowly in the last couple weeks of pregnancy!


I have to agree! Everything thing about her today was odd and then the yellow mucous. I checked her just now and she is teeth grinding and then stops, and more clear mucous. This is brutal!


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## JessLoveJ

wifeof1 said:


> I'm next to the US Mexico border and we don't have any yet. Only a few dark clouds.
> Let's hope she gets it done before dark.


Any rain yet? It has been pouring off and on all day here in Inland Empire and in Orange County too


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## wifeof1

Just enough to make the concrete look wet. We are pretty far south east. About 2 hours to Yuma and 10 minutes to Mexico as the crow flies.


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## loggyacreslivestock

Just checking in. Any progress?


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Just checking in. Any progress?


Well it's pouring cats and dogs now, had to make some adjustments but All is good. Elsa is still getting up to walk around and Anna just won't move. I think if anything she's trying to hold those babies in! The only times she really walks any is when I would leave the pen. Hopefully by morning she's ready to let them out!


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## loggyacreslivestock

Sometimes they want privacy


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Sometimes they want privacy


 She definitely does, but also wants me there lol


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## HoosierShadow

I have to second that. We have a doe that will not kid with an audience. She will stall labor if we are out there (which makes having a barn cam super handy!). Once she is pushing baby out she is fine, but don't dare hang out or linger before then.

I'm honestly a bit concerned, because you mentioned she was up and down, squatting and trying to pee, etc. the other day, and now no progress. Are you positive nothing is wrong? it's hard to know since we are not there and don't see her other than pictures.


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## loggyacreslivestock

I agree with Hoosier. If she really was in labor last night, she should have kids by now.


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> I have to second that. We have a doe that will not kid with an audience. She will stall labor if we are out there (which makes having a barn cam super handy!). Once she is pushing baby out she is fine, but don't dare hang out or linger before then.
> 
> I'm honestly a bit concerned, because you mentioned she was up and down, squatting and trying to pee, etc. the other day, and now no progress. Are you positive nothing is wrong? it's hard to know since we are not there and don't see her other than pictures.


Well I checked on her now and she has more clear mucous now, standing, doesn't walk around like my other doe is. I don't know if nothing is wrong, is this where I go in and check? Why would she still have mucous. I have videos of her trying to pee and nothing coming out. It's driving me crazy.


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> I have to second that. We have a doe that will not kid with an audience. She will stall labor if we are out there (which makes having a barn cam super handy!). Once she is pushing baby out she is fine, but don't dare hang out or linger before then.
> 
> I'm honestly a bit concerned, because you mentioned she was up and down, squatting and trying to pee, etc. the other day, and now no progress. Are you positive nothing is wrong? it's hard to know since we are not there and don't see her other than pictures.


And I feel as though she does want me there. She baaa'd at me yesterday when I had to leave her. I am currently moving her into the shed we have since the weather has become unbearable and will check her in there.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Has her stomach dropped?


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## loggyacreslivestock

Can you post the videos of the mucus coming out?


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Has her stomach dropped?


Yes! She has actually looked "dropped" for quite sometime.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Can you post the videos of the mucus coming out?


How do I post a video? It will only allow me to post pictures, I had tried posting videos initially.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Upload it to youtube, then post a link.


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## MilkandMeatgoats

How are things progressing? Any kids yet? Were you able to check her?


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> How are things progressing? Any kids yet? Were you able to check her?


Not yet! We had a huge storm blow over the night, I had to move her to the shed. She wasn't happy but it has to be done, it was to cold, starting to flood and windy. I haven't been able to check her since I moved her and had to tend to my chickens and horses as well as the roads, trees are down and even the roads to the wineries are closed. I'm headed back in there in just a bit and will have an update. California does not take rain very well! Lol!


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> How are things progressing? Any kids yet? Were you able to check her?


She has more sticky goop stuck to her vulva, do I just check if she's dilating? She's having contractions here and there but no pushing. And she's back to hitting the side of her stomach. Seems like a sluggish labor!? Do you think the kids are not positioned right?


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## goat girls

I would wash up and go in it seems like she's stalling


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## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> I would wash up and go in it seems like she's stalling


I tried and couldn't get even one finger in before she was freaking out! Yesterday she was much calmer and today seems more agitated.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Are her teats filled?


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Are her teats filled?


They are big and have gotten long, almost swollen like, she is bigger on her lower abdomen but it's very difficult to see anything with all of her hair.


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## Agreenwd888

How long would you say you have been seeing contractions? And how far apart between contractions. Ive seen over 80 sheep and goats have babies. If she is ok with you in the room, sit on the floor and turn sideways to her. Dont stare at her. Basically ignore her but keep track of her contractions. Or go outside and peak in every 10 minutes. Ive seen small livestock have contractions for 2-3 hours with the water bag and hooves showing and heavy. Labor for the last 15-60 minutes. I have found it is best to not intervene unless necessary. I intervene when 1 hoof is out (pull the other one out and then let mom deliver on her own), only nose no hooves same as above pull hooves out. Mixed match hooves fix, with breech I don' intervene until back hooves and butt are birthed then I pull rest out quick, bulb nose/mouth etc. In general it seems that people want to intervene. I had 46 ewes that had babies last year. There was early intervention for about 10 of the ewes. 3 of those ewes had stillborn. Last fall I had 26 ewes give birth with no intervention there was 100 percent live births. Unless you have an animal with very narrow hips, malnourished, (no minerals)= weak contractions, or a baby is stuck. Relax get some tea and enjoy the process =)


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## Agreenwd888

The worst case is inefficient contractions. And stillborn babies. But if she had a good pregnancy diet, good minerals and her mother had no issue with birthing probably not the case.


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> How long would you say you have been seeing contractions? And how far apart between contractions. Ive seen over 80 sheep and goats have babies. If she is ok with you in the room, sit on the floor and turn sideways to her. Dont stare at her. Basically ignore her but keep track of her contractions. Or go outside and peak in every 10 minutes. Ive seen small livestock have contractions for 2-3 hours with the water bag and hooves showing and heavy. Labor for the last 15-60 minutes. I have found it is best to not intervene unless necessary. I intervene when 1 hoof is out (pull the other one out and then let mom deliver on her own), only nose no hooves same as above pull hooves out. Mixed match hooves fix, with breech I don' intervene until back hooves and butt are birthed then I pull rest out quick, bulb nose/mouth etc. In general it seems that people want to intervene. I had 46 ewes that had babies last year. There was early intervention for about 10 of the ewes. 3 of those ewes had stillborn. Last fall I had 26 ewes give birth with no intervention there was 100 percent live births. Unless you have an animal with very narrow hips, malnourished, (no minerals)= weak contractions, or a baby is stuck. Relax get some tea and enjoy the process =)


Thank you for that! I needed to hear it! Well yesterday she was having contractions closer together and heavy labored breathing, mucous discharge all day long and she didn't eat at all yesterday, today she has been eating and walking around more with very few contractions so my guess is she is just getting ready. I woke up a few times yesterday evening to check on her as well. But no kids just yet. Thank you!!! She can't be malnourished and I think if she had kids stuck she would be miserable... will keep my eyes on her.


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## Agreenwd888

An hour before birthing I usually see a string of mucous to the ground, anyone else? I've seen mucous, plug etc up to 6 weeks before. Contractions are usually very noticeable, tail up arched back, or the whole stomach tightens up and lifts. are you still seeing yellow mucous? could be stressed kids with meconium. Or just clear?


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> An hour before birthing I usually see a string of mucous to the ground, anyone else? I've seen mucous, plug etc up to 6 weeks before. Contractions are usually very noticeable, tail up arched back, or the whole stomach tightens up and lifts. are you still seeing yellow mucous? could be stressed kids with meconium. Or just clear?


It was mucousy, like white with a yellow tint. Then clumps of the whitish yellow and clear throughout the remainder of the day. And the first bunch was a string of mucous.


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## Agreenwd888

Yesterday! U r sure you saw contractions? Take her temperature!!


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## Agreenwd888

But no stringy membranes hanging 7 inches or longer? Not just mucous but stringy tissue?


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## Agreenwd888

I'm alittle perplexed over you seeing contractions yesterday. Unless livestock also have Braxton hicks?? =) were u seeing contractions like i wrote earlier or just nesting habits, pawing at the ground etc.


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> I'm alittle perplexed over you seeing contractions yesterday. Unless livestock also have Braxton hicks?? =) were u seeing contractions like i wrote earlier or just nesting habits, pawing at the ground etc.


Yes full blown contractions! I am not able to get it uploaded without half the video being cropped








Here is one photo, then she would her neck right to left and her tail would curl would all the way and then she would lay back down.


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Yesterday! U r sure you saw contractions? Take her temperature!!


Her temp is good! Checked that one already.


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## JessLoveJ

Several yesterday, and a few contractions today with very posty legs. But no more mucous. Also, her vulva use to be all black, now it’s all pink.


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## Goat_Scout

I would give her some calcium (CMPK is what I have), that may help with the sluggish labor. 
Is there anybody that could help you hold her, or could you tie her to a post/fence so that you could go in again? If she has been in labor since yesterday I would be worried.


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## Agreenwd888

Hmm. I have seen other threads with labor over 12 hours but most have gone in and checked to see if dilated or had to reposition babies. I usually go in if I have not seen the water bag at 3 hours. In this situation I would go in to see if I could feel any legs etc. If you have not done it before she is small would just put your fingers in unless you feel a leg or body part then may want to go for it. I would see if there are any body parts in the first 4-5 inches of canal and see if dilated. The problem with going In is you could also slow down labor =/ but sometimes better to take the chance. Can you tie her up or have some one else hold her?. It will take you 5 seconds to check. You may need to leave the space and giver her room If she gets upset. If you go in and feel nothing may want to let her be. shes not in heavy labor?? Yelling and pushing?? If she stops having contractions call a vet.


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## Agreenwd888

Straightening her legs could have been stretching, any videos from yesterday??


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> But no stringy membranes hanging 7 inches or longer? Not just mucous but stringy tissue?


I don't know if you can see the bucks parts in the early photos but his balls are enormous! Never seen anything like it! We have watched him mount the does more than a dozen times since July so no doubt they are bred. The goat in question right now was in a pen FULL of bucks when I got her around 9 months old back in July. Then with our buck all July, August and September. Dwarf pygmys are also in heat year round. In addition to all of this, one of the does, although not sure which is mixed with Nigerian. The owner had told me last month when I was confiding in her, that her mom, would bag up during labor. So I assume it will be the same for Anna. However I have been blowing her phone up with questions and haven't heard back. But here is her udder, just took this this evening. I let her out to stretch and she came right to me.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I would give her some calcium (CMPK is what I have), that may help with the sluggish labor.
> Is there anybody that could help you hold her, or could you tie her to a post/fence so that you could go in again? If she has been in labor since yesterday I would be worried.


I keep that in my "at home live stock pharmacy" gave this to her one hour ago. Thank you!


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Straightening her legs could have been stretching, any videos from yesterday??


Yes! I could try a photo bucket... let me get this chicken in the oven and I will figure out how to post a link to a video.


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## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> Several yesterday, and a few contractions today with very posty legs. But no more mucous. Also, her vulva use to be all black, now it's all pink.


Temp is good and vulva is pink now so that's progression...I think I'd still try to go in again though if you are certain she's been contracting this long. Extremely clean, gloved hands, make sure to use some type of lubricant and go in slowly and as gently as possible. She's definitely not going to want you going in so it's probably going to be a little tighter than you'd imagine but that's where the gentle part comes in. I have large hands for a lady but I kinda cuff my hand and gently rotate it as I feel for kids or a wall which would tell me she had not dilated. The most important thing is that you do not use too much force and cause damage going in. You can do this! But if you are still not comfortable, get your vet out and have them show you or pay really close attention as they check her. I know you need some peace of mind at this point and I pray you get some healthy kids soon and mom remains healthy too!


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> How long would you say you have been seeing contractions? And how far apart between contractions. Ive seen over 80 sheep and goats have babies. If she is ok with you in the room, sit on the floor and turn sideways to her. Dont stare at her. Basically ignore her but keep track of her contractions. Or go outside and peak in every 10 minutes. Ive seen small livestock have contractions for 2-3 hours with the water bag and hooves showing and heavy. Labor for the last 15-60 minutes. I have found it is best to not intervene unless necessary. I intervene when 1 hoof is out (pull the other one out and then let mom deliver on her own), only nose no hooves same as above pull hooves out. Mixed match hooves fix, with breech I don' intervene until back hooves and butt are birthed then I pull rest out quick, bulb nose/mouth etc. In general it seems that people want to intervene. I had 46 ewes that had babies last year. There was early intervention for about 10 of the ewes. 3 of those ewes had stillborn. Last fall I had 26 ewes give birth with no intervention there was 100 percent live births. Unless you have an animal with very narrow hips, malnourished, (no minerals)= weak contractions, or a baby is stuck. Relax get some tea and enjoy the process =)






















My husband has the video of her panting even louder than this! She didn't eat the entire day and if you go back in this thread you see All of the three different types of mucous she had coming out of her.


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## JessLoveJ

Here's a before (as in October to today) of her vulva.









How she is looking today, had to move them to my shed because the rain has been non-stop! Us Californians need to be careful what we wish for 









After the string of mucous she had this coming out. This was crazy! I watch them everyday, never seen anything like it.


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Temp is good and vulva is pink now so that's progression...I think I'd still try to go in again though if you are certain she's been contracting this long. Extremely clean, gloved hands, make sure to use some type of lubricant and go in slowly and as gently as possible. She's definitely not going to want you going in so it's probably going to be a little tighter than you'd imagine but that's where the gentle part comes in. I have large hands for a lady but I kinda cuff my hand and gently rotate it as I feel for kids or a wall which would tell me she had not dilated. The most important thing is that you do not use too much force and cause damage going in. You can do this! But if you are still not comfortable, get your vet out and have them show you or pay really close attention as they check her. I know you need some peace of mind at this point and I pray you get some healthy kids soon and mom remains healthy too!


Thank you! I think I will call the vet out. I can fix a vent prolapsed like nobody else in a chicken but it's so hard for me with a goat!


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## Agreenwd888

Each of those videos was less then 10 seconds just want to make sure I'm getting the whole video. I didn' see any signs of labor in any of those videos. 2 things i noticed. Most goats ready to birth paw at the ground and create a "nest" also the panting video i see her very close to other goats. I dont know how big that pen is but a goat in labor usually isolates itself. Can you get a video of her now??


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## Agreenwd888

How are her ligaments?


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## Goat_Scout

I agree, and it's just a thought, but maybe, just maybe she is having braxton hicks? I've heard that goats can have them even couple weeks before birth... but just in case I'd have a vet look at her.


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Each of those videos was less then 10 seconds just want to make sure I'm getting the whole video. I didn' see any signs of labor in any of those videos. 2 things i noticed. Most goats ready to birth paw at the ground and create a "nest" also the panting video i see her very close to other goats. I dont know how big that pen is but a goat in labor usually isolates itself. Can you get a video of her now??


It's not to large, one video is 33 seconds and one is 26 seconds, not sure why you only get to view 10 seconds. Also she pawed where she laid the entire day. Her breathing was loud and labored my husband cancelled our Disney day. I can't get a video right this second as I'm cooking yet again, and it's pouring rain so my phone won't it to the shed. But hopefully sometime this evening. Thank you for all of your help!


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> How are her ligaments?


Ok, I don't know how good I am checking those but my fingers touch. I can feel the bones off to the side only


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## Agreenwd888

Also if those arent contractions ive had the mucous plug come out weeks before and mucous in general up to 24 hours before. I think your really close to having kids, having a vet out always helps.


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Also if those arent contractions ive had the mucous plug come out weeks before and mucous in general up to 24 hours before. I think your really close to having kids, having a vet out always helps.


She had Mucous on November 6th but nothing like yesterday


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## Agreenwd888

Do you have a video of contractions today?


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## loggyacreslivestock

I agree, I don't see signs of labor in those quick clips. But I do see something concerning. The panting is odd, unless it is very warm there, but it also looks like she is twitching her head. I'd give a shot of b complex. I can't see any defining trait, but I'm concerned she may be going towards polio. Just an odd thought on my part. 

Have you watched any goat birthing videos on you tube?


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## Jrsno1fan

Are you sure she's not in heat and all of this mucous is not heat related? How certain are you that she's pregnant? It looks and seems to me that she is not pregnant but is going thru heat and hasn't been able to mate so it just keeps coming. Can you have someone hold her horns to hold her still and do the belly lift test and check ligaments?


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I agree, I don't see signs of labor in those quick clips. But I do see something concerning. The panting is odd, unless it is very warm there, but it also looks like she is twitching her head. I'd give a shot of b complex. I can't see any defining trait, but I'm concerned she may be going towards polio. Just an odd thought on my part.
> 
> Have you watched any goat birthing videos on you tube?


I have three goats, two horses and three dogs, none have polio!


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## JessLoveJ

Jrsno1fan said:


> Are you sure she's not in heat and all of this mucous is not heat related? How certain are you that she's pregnant? It looks and seems to me that she is not pregnant but is going thru heat and hasn't been able to mate so it just keeps coming. Can you have someone hold her horns to hold her still and do the belly lift test and check ligaments?


Read my message earlier, she's bred. Vet will be here tomorrow.


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## loggyacreslivestock

Her udder should also be large enough to see without straining. They do fill and get tight during labor, but her udder should be quite evident at this point. It doesn't go from barely noticeable to filling the entire area between her rear legs from body to knees within hours. I think a vet check to draw blood on both girls to determine pregnancy status is what's needed.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Let us know how it goes.


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## loggyacreslivestock

I'm sorry if I offended you. I just had a doe come down with polio and her very first symptoms were head twitching. After a few hours it progressed to not eating, blindness and turning her head over her back. When I saw the video it reminded me of her twitching.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> I agree, and it's just a thought, but maybe, just maybe she is having braxton hicks? I've heard that goats can have them even couple weeks before birth... but just in case I'd have a vet look at her.


Yes I read that also a few different places also. It's just strange that the only white one has an udder forming since two weeks ago and Anna is almost three times her size and has not much but larger teats and fur going on.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you. I just had a doe come down with polio and her very first symptoms were head twitching. After a few hours it progressed to not eating, blindness and turning her head over her back. When I saw the video it reminded me of her twitching.


Well she's been fine since, after that twitching she began the heavy labored breathing, she was just doing what shows in the videos and grinding her teeth, panting here and there. She had a calcium gluconate sq today also.


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## JessLoveJ

Jrsno1fan said:


> Are you sure she's not in heat and all of this mucous is not heat related? How certain are you that she's pregnant? It looks and seems to me that she is not pregnant but is going thru heat and hasn't been able to mate so it just keeps coming. Can you have someone hold her horns to hold her still and do the belly lift test and check ligaments?


She won't ever call to the buck or wag her tail ever. She use to, but not in months. Her tail has been completely down lately and only goes up when she appears to be having a contraction. She was also grunting that entire day also. And the first string of mucous that came out had a yellow tint.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Her udder should also be large enough to see without straining. They do fill and get tight during labor, but her udder should be quite evident at this point. It doesn't go from barely noticeable to filling the entire area between her rear legs from body to knees within hours. I think a vet check to draw blood on both girls to determine pregnancy status is what's needed.












This is when I first got her. No teats in sight. A couple of months ago, I could see the teats, now there's so much hair, I'm fishing for a teat.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you. I just had a doe come down with polio and her very first symptoms were head twitching. After a few hours it progressed to not eating, blindness and turning her head over her back. When I saw the video it reminded me of her twitching.


And you didn't offend me but thank you for the apology. I would just think she is my healthiest go out all my animals are well taken care of, well fed, she eats the most definitely, and I have never had a case of polio in any of my animals so it would be so random not to mention she wouldn't be as normal as she was today, leaving me stumped.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I agree, I don't see signs of labor in those quick clips. But I do see something concerning. The panting is odd, unless it is very warm there, but it also looks like she is twitching her head. I'd give a shot of b complex. I can't see any defining trait, but I'm concerned she may be going towards polio. Just an odd thought on my part.
> 
> Have you watched any goat birthing videos on you tube?


Yes I've watched the delivery videos on YouTube, which is why with what I All had yesterday, I thought for sure labor. I tape with Snapchat so it only tapes 10-35 seconds. I don't think there's any possibility she hasn't been breed. Like I said earlier where I got her she was in a pen full of bucks, here she was with the buck for three straight months and growing since by the day and we have seen him breeding him both does multiple times. Couldn't count. And his parts work. Lately he just lets a load out in mid air! Lol


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## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Do you have a video of contractions today?


No not as of yet, when I moved her to the shed I left my phone inside so it wouldn't get wet. Its been pouring rain since yesterday.


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## HoosierShadow

I think your not possibly understanding polio. It's not a disease, it's a lack of thiamine/B-vitamins in the goats system, and it can affect anyone who is not eating or absorbing enough thiamine. You can have a healthy looking herd, do the best care, but it can still happen.
Just had this happen to a friends goat a couple of weeks ago while they were out of town (I was emergency contact). She had the classic signs and I will say it does look like a doe who is contracting! Walking up to her I thought she might be aborting kids. Until I stood and observed that she was holding her head up, mouth open a little, and rapid breathing. I checked her eyesight and she was blind. She could not walk, and was shivering most likely from fear. Seizures did not end and it again, looked like contractions.
We gave her an initial shot of B-Complex, and called the vet out. Vet gave her more B-Complex directly in the blood vein, and within about 5 minutes no more rapid breathing, she started to relax, and the seizures stopped. The breathing was heavy enough I am surprised she was not panting.
That doe has been fine since then, and was receiving supportive care under vet supervision. She is from a very nice, healthy herd.

So just be aware that polio can show it's ugly head anywhere, anytime. 

As for your doe, I agree with Julie, she doesn't seem right in those videos, but doesn't make me think she is in labor. We can always be wrong, hard to say not being able to be there and put our hands on her or check her for dilation. Just keep an eye on her for any other strange behavior. 

Mucous is very normal, goats can have mucous all through their pregnancy. The long stringy mucous with an amber color is the one to watch for, but not all does 'stream.' We've had them where there wasn't a single sign of mucous and they kidded. 
What normally does happen is they have an udder. If in active labor they should have something there, maybe not tight and full, but should have enough there that you know they are pregnant. There's the odd case for sure.

Growing bellies don't always mean they are pregnant. We have some you'd think were always pregnant. We have a doe that gets HUGE when she is pregnant, and when she's not pregnant, people are still asking me when she is due lol. 

Just trying to help. I really hope everything goes well and you'll have some babies to love on soon! Definitely keep us updated! We all learn, we all have those first kiddings, and we all have been impatient (I don't know anyone who has been patient lol).


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> I think your not possibly understanding polio. It's not a disease, it's a lack of thiamine/B-vitamins in the goats system, and it can affect anyone who is not eating or absorbing enough thiamine. You can have a healthy looking herd, do the best care, but it can still happen.
> Just had this happen to a friends goat a couple of weeks ago while they were out of town (I was emergency contact). She had the classic signs and I will say it does look like a doe who is contracting! Walking up to her I thought she might be aborting kids. Until I stood and observed that she was holding her head up, mouth open a little, and rapid breathing. I checked her eyesight and she was blind. She could not walk, and was shivering most likely from fear. Seizures did not end and it again, looked like contractions.
> We gave her an initial shot of B-Complex, and called the vet out. Vet gave her more B-Complex directly in the blood vein, and within about 5 minutes no more rapid breathing, she started to relax, and the seizures stopped. The breathing was heavy enough I am surprised she was not panting.
> That doe has been fine since then, and was receiving supportive care under vet supervision. She is from a very nice, healthy herd.
> 
> So just be aware that polio can show it's ugly head anywhere, anytime.
> 
> As for your doe, I agree with Julie, she doesn't seem right in those videos, but doesn't make me think she is in labor. We can always be wrong, hard to say not being able to be there and put our hands on her or check her for dilation. Just keep an eye on her for any other strange behavior.
> 
> Mucous is very normal, goats can have mucous all through their pregnancy. The long stringy mucous with an amber color is the one to watch for, but not all does 'stream.' We've had them where there wasn't a single sign of mucous and they kidded.
> What normally does happen is they have an udder. If in active labor they should have something there, maybe not tight and full, but should have enough there that you know they are pregnant. There's the odd case for sure.
> 
> Growing bellies don't always mean they are pregnant. We have some you'd think were always pregnant. We have a doe that gets HUGE when she is pregnant, and when she's not pregnant, people are still asking me when she is due lol.
> 
> Just trying to help. I really hope everything goes well and you'll have some babies to love on soon! Definitely keep us updated! We all learn, we all have those first kiddings, and we all have been impatient (I don't know anyone who has been patient lol).


I have read polio is contagious. But either way, she didn't shake again, and she's definitely not blind, that would be clear to me. And like I said in earlier posts, she has walked around today, eaten just fine. It's odd. I've had animals all my life and always look into any type of disease/illness first. Chickens, dogs, pigs, roosters, horses, the goats are new for us. But reading animals is definitely not. But Thank you. We will see what the vet says tomorrow. My first thought was Ketosis, however her shaking stopped quickly and never occurred again. It was bizarre. And I looked into bloat, nope. But her gradually growing since being with the buck is undeniable.


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## loggyacreslivestock

Polio is not contagious. Here is a good article on it. I agree, if the shaking has stopped, it's not likely polio.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


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## HoosierShadow

Yes as Julie stated the above article, polio is not contagious. I should have also stated that not every polio case is the same. Some may not have every symptom, or the blindness. I just stated that this particular doe had classic signs. Definitely read the article so you know more about it in case you ever come across a case, you'll know how to identify it. 
We had a mild case years ago in a buck (sudden feed change stressed his rumen), but otherwise I'd never seen it in person, but educated myself about it and that's how I knew what was going on with my friends goat  

I'm glad she is doing fine and no more odd behavior.


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> Yes as Julie stated the above article, polio is not contagious. I should have also stated that not every polio case is the same. Some may not have every symptom, or the blindness. I just stated that this particular doe had classic signs. Definitely read the article so you know more about it in case you ever come across a case, you'll know how to identify it.
> We had a mild case years ago in a buck (sudden feed change stressed his rumen), but otherwise I'd never seen it in person, but educated myself about it and that's how I knew what was going on with my friends goat
> 
> I'm glad she is doing fine and no more odd behavior.


Odd, yes, seems pregnant and isn't running around like the others. Sick and blind with polio? Definitely not. But already did thank you. I'm not the "chicken lady" of The Valley from not being educated lol


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## loggyacreslivestock

JessLoveJ said:


> Odd, yes, seems pregnant and isn't running around like the others. Sick and blind with polio? Definitely not. But already did thank you. I'm not the "chicken lady" of The Valley from not being educated lol


No one is suggesting you are uneducated. We were just trying to come up with a plausible reason for her behavior. It's quite puzzling. Let us know what the vet has to say.


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## Honey21

The main things to look for are the ligaments being gone start at the very top of the backbone and follow the bone down you'll feel too little pencil like Woodman's if they are still strong she's not close yet but if their slack or either not they're completely then she's close or in labor and it usually wants their God it takes about 24 hours so those videos that I seen didn't look like she was in active labor maybe she's uncomfortable for me I'm pregnant but I don't think active labor yet


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## Honey21

Goats can act weird when they are pregnant and you know they have to be uncomfortable sometimes


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## HoosierShadow

JessLoveJ said:


> Odd, yes, seems pregnant and isn't running around like the others. Sick and blind with polio? Definitely not. But already did thank you. I'm not the "chicken lady" of The Valley from not being educated lol


No one was suggesting you were not educated, but you were not understanding what polio was and I was politely explaining it as something to watch with your doe in case she started acting strange again.

Honey suggested a good idea to check ligaments. When a doe is close to kidding her ligaments soften, and will feel like they disappear. You can go on youtube and search for 'how to check tail ligaments goat' for some good videos. On our boer goats they feel like small pencils that soften. So if they are not soft, then whatever was going on was not labor related.

Hopefully vet gives you answers today.


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## JessLoveJ

HoosierShadow said:


> No one was suggesting you were not educated, but you were not understanding what polio was and I was politely explaining it as something to watch with your doe in case she started acting strange again.
> 
> Honey suggested a good idea to check ligaments. When a doe is close to kidding her ligaments soften, and will feel like they disappear. You can go on youtube and search for 'how to check tail ligaments goat' for some good videos. On our boer goats they feel like small pencils that soften. So if they are not soft, then whatever was going on was not labor related.
> 
> Hopefully vet gives you answers today.


 I have been trying to feel her ligs for two months and it feels like the last two weeks, one minute they're there and the next they are not. It's so bizarre! And I was reading an article about udders and One woman posted photos of a dwarf Nigerian just like mine with just a little swollen cup in front of her, looked exactly like my Anna. Her udder does not connect to the sides of her legs like most goats. So I'm wondering if this is where the problem lies with her udder.  And her vulva looks even more different then it did yesterday. Now sure what to make of it.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> No one is suggesting you are uneducated. We were just trying to come up with a plausible reason for her behavior. It's quite puzzling. Let us know what the vet has to say.


They went from being very petite and small perhaps 15-20lbs, with teany teats poking out maybe a centimeter from their flat tummy's to swollen puffy little cups with swollen and elongated teats. I'm just as puzzled as you are. Vet should be getting back to me with a time today.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> The main things to look for are the ligaments being gone start at the very top of the backbone and follow the bone down you'll feel too little pencil like Woodman's if they are still strong she's not close yet but if their slack or either not they're completely then she's close or in labor and it usually wants their God it takes about 24 hours so those videos that I seen didn't look like she was in active labor maybe she's uncomfortable for me I'm pregnant but I don't think active labor yet


Well I'm assuming pregnant based on the fact she doesn't run around, jump and play like before, stretches often, eats like crazy, teats swelled up and she's been growing since the months she was with the buck. Even her vulva went from this small black little thing to an enormous and now pinkish vulva. It's just crazy.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

When was she last in with the buck?


----------



## Honey21

JessLoveJ said:


> Well I'm assuming pregnant based on the fact she doesn't run around, jump and play like before, stretches often, eats like crazy, teats swelled up and she's been growing since the months she was with the buck. Even her vulva went from this small black little thing to an enormous and now pinkish vulva. It's just crazy.


Even when pregnant goats will act feisty some even aggressive and they become eating machines


----------



## Honey21

Goats have a five month gestation period it is very important to monitor when they r exposed to the males because they might get bred and not get seen and it makes waiting not so anxious because u have aides when to expect so ur upset prematurely


----------



## Honey21

Test ur skills on ligament feeling on a not prego goat u will learn fast that way


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> When was she last in with the buck?


Well when I purchased in July she was in a large pen with about 7 does and 8 bucks. Since she's been here she was with the buck from July to October.


----------



## Honey21

Just because she was with a buck doesn't mean she got bred at that time they will reject a buck if they don't like him I have seen this with my does when was the last time u saw her get bred


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> Just because she was with a buck doesn't mean she got bred at that time they will reject a buck if they don't like him I have seen this with my does when was the last time u saw her get bred


Beginning of August. When they would free range they would breed right here in front of our water fountain lol I believe my husband has a video somewhere. Now he just does it in mid air


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

What date in October did you remove the buck? Trying to establish a latest possible bred date.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> Just because she was with a buck doesn't mean she got bred at that time they will reject a buck if they don't like him I have seen this with my does when was the last time u saw her get bred


Also when the vet was out in October to do my thoroughbreds dental she did the dogs vaccinations and blood tested both does.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> Goats have a five month gestation period it is very important to monitor when they r exposed to the males because they might get bred and not get seen and it makes waiting not so anxious because u have aides when to expect so ur upset prematurely


Well given the way they were with the buck in July & August to how calm they were (no breeding) September and October, not to mention the changes in their figures all around and the vet saying so in October, I would have said both she by Christmas. But I guess not. They are also on rotation feed since we are in a drought area, fed well, vaccinated, dewormed, spoiled friendly goats. Our buck loves to sit on our laps and cuddle. Lol


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> What date in October did you remove the buck? Trying to establish a latest possible bred date.


October 6th


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> Even when pregnant goats will act feisty some even aggressive and they become eating machines


Well, see this is true however Anna and Elsa are very close and usually always lay together. Lately when Elsa approaches her or comes near her she hits her with her horns.


----------



## Honey21

It sounds like from wat u saying they might have bn bred in August not July. If they settled they didn't come back in Sep or Oct


----------



## JessLoveJ

Honey21 said:


> It sounds like from wat u saying they might have bn bred in August not July. If they settled they didn't come back in Sep or Oct


Could be possible. I do know that Annas discharge couldn't have been a heat either, how it came out. What all came out and no calling to our free roaming buck or tail wagging. Vet called and said he is busy today but will call me when he can swing by! He's squeezing us in! Yay!


----------



## Honey21

Ask him if he can tell how far along they r when he comes that will give ur mind some ease


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## loggyacreslivestock

So, to make a timeline for us to follow...
Does were with bucks from sometime before you got them in July up until October 6th. 
In October, they had blood tests showing they were pregnant.
I believe blood tests need to be about 30 days bred to be accurate, so let's say a possible last bred date of Sept 1. That gives me a due date of January 29th. If the doe in question was not in labor 2 days ago, and I'd say it's safe to assume she was not or she would be seriously ill by now, and you can feel a palm sized udder, I'd say end of January could be right on for kids. 
What I do is feel ligaments and udders every morning and evening and the week before they are due, I take a rear pic of the udder. Then I can compare the picture if I think the udder has filled.
I shave my girl's tails, rear udder and some of the long hairs on the rear legs about 2 weeks before they are due so I can see udder development easier and they clean up better after kidding.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I should say I take pictures of the udder daily starting at one week before due date.


----------



## Honey21

loggyacreslivestock said:


> So, to make a timeline for us to follow...
> Does were with bucks from sometime before you got them in July up until October 6th.
> In October, they had blood tests showing they were pregnant.
> I believe blood tests need to be about 30 days bred to be accurate, so let's say a possible last bred date of Sept 1. That gives me a due date of January 29th. If the doe in question was not in labor 2 days ago, and I'd say it's safe to assume she was not or she would be seriously ill by now, and you can feel a palm sized udder, I'd say end of January could be right on for kids.
> What I do is feel ligaments and udders every morning and evening and the week before they are due, I take a rear pic of the udder. Then I can compare the picture if I think the udder has filled.
> I shave my girl's tails, rear udder and some of the long hairs on the rear legs about 2 weeks before they are due so I can see udder development easier and they clean up better after kidding.


I agree my girls were bred in July and they have finished kidding if in August then they would have kidded in December January time it probably happened in Sep.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I can't find any pictures of my dwarf nigerians before they kidded. I do have pics of this summer. They were dry for 1 year in these pics.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I can't find any pictures of my dwarf nigerians before they kidded. I do have pics of this summer. They were dry for 1 year in these pics.


Adorable! Mine I believe are Pygmy. At least Anna. Elsa I believe is mixed with Nigerian.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> So, to make a timeline for us to follow...
> Does were with bucks from sometime before you got them in July up until October 6th.
> In October, they had blood tests showing they were pregnant.
> I believe blood tests need to be about 30 days bred to be accurate, so let's say a possible last bred date of Sept 1. That gives me a due date of January 29th. If the doe in question was not in labor 2 days ago, and I'd say it's safe to assume she was not or she would be seriously ill by now, and you can feel a palm sized udder, I'd say end of January could be right on for kids.
> What I do is feel ligaments and udders every morning and evening and the week before they are due, I take a rear pic of the udder. Then I can compare the picture if I think the udder has filled.
> I shave my girl's tails, rear udder and some of the long hairs on the rear legs about 2 weeks before they are due so I can see udder development easier and they clean up better after kidding.


I take pictures daily since we got them. So I know I'm not crazy on their little udders and teats that have developed. But the hair! SO MUCH of it! How do I shave them??


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I clip for shows, so I use an Andis clipper. But if you have a set of Wahl hair clippers, or something similar, you can use those. I clip with no attachment on the tail, and use a half inch attachment or just judge by sight to go over the udder area. Then take the clippers and shave DOWN from tail to hocks just lightly pushing to take off long hairs and make a nice clean area. Otherwise when they clean out for about 2 weeks after kidding, it all gets stuck and dried onto the tail and long hairs.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I clip for shows, so I use an Andis clipper. But if you have a set of Wahl hair clippers, or something similar, you can use those. I clip with no attachment on the tail, and use a half inch attachment or just judge by sight to go over the udder area. Then take the clippers and shave DOWN from tail to hocks just lightly pushing to take off long hairs and make a nice clean area. Otherwise when they clean out for about 2 weeks after kidding, it all gets stuck and dried onto the tail and long hairs.


I have a couple of Wahls, thank you! I will do that! So this is strange, I saw Anna sucking on one of Elsa's teats!  What is that about? I noticed the tips of both teats sometimes have a white tip, would this be why??


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Yes, that's a problem. It can cause a doe to form an udder without being pregnant, and if she is pregnant, it will rob newborns of colostrum. You may need to separate them a bit.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Yes, that's a problem. It can cause a doe to form an udder without being pregnant, and if she is pregnant, it will rob newborns of colostrum. You may need to separate them a bit.


Interesting! Well I've never seen her do it before but she did as I was responding to you. So bizarre! Well vet is on his way!


----------



## goat girls

Here's a good video on clipping goats for kidding


----------



## Jrsno1fan

Sounds like a case of precocious udder. My doe had that last year I could have sworn she was pregnant she had all the same signs but she wasn’t. The vet said if she did not go into heat the next month he would give her a shot to kind of reset her hormones luckily she did get over it on her own. There is a thread in the waiting room where I posted up pictures thinking that she was close to being due she was also making milk but was self nursing. That might be what she’s doing by allowing the other goat to nurse on her without having given birth.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Jrsno1fan said:


> Sounds like a case of precocious udder. My doe had that last year I could have sworn she was pregnant she had all the same signs but she wasn't. The vet said if she did not go into heat the next month he would give her a shot to kind of reset her hormones luckily she did get over it on her own. There is a thread in the waiting room where I posted up pictures thinking that she was close to being due she was also making milk but was self nursing. That might be what she's doing by allowing the other goat to nurse on her without having given birth.


That is so interesting!!! Well vet said she's pregnant but doesn't think she's due as of yet, and that's only because of the mucous.  And if anything with one kid tops because both girls are very very tiny  As for Elsa's udder, he agreed it could be from Anna going for her teats but that if bred, it had to be recent. So I guess I just sit back and continue to play this excruciating waiting game!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I like that video! I don't clip mine as closely on the rear because it's often below zero when they are kidding. Change it to fit your needs.


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## loggyacreslivestock

Lol, the waiting game is the worst.


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## loggyacreslivestock

My daughter's friend's pygmy. She is at 12 weeks post kidding here.


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> My daughter's friend's pygmy. She is at 12 weeks post kidding here.


Oh my she looks so much like my Elsa!


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Lol, the waiting game is the worst.


I know! I want to scream!  On top I had to pay to hear there's nothing going on or anytime soon. This is terrible!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Lol, I've got 1 due next Saturday that has the beginnings of toxemia. I'm watching her constantly to see if she eats. The next week and a half are going to be awful.


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Lol, I've got 1 due next Saturday that has the beginnings of toxemia. I'm watching her constantly to see if she eats. The next week and a half are going to be awful.


At least you know you have at least a week and a half!


----------



## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Yes, that's a problem. It can cause a doe to form an udder without being pregnant, and if she is pregnant, it will rob newborns of colostrum. You may need to separate them a bit.


But can a goat even form an udder and milk without being ever being bred? She would have to be bred then to my understanding. Because if so, wouldn't that be as rare as a due kidding with no milk?


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## loggyacreslivestock

Yes, it's called a precocious udder. The first kids I had were triplets. One made an udder at a young age, maybe 5 months old. It's the only one I've had in 6 yrs. My neighbor has had several does kid with no udder development. Good udders on dam, no or almost no udder on these girls. It does happen


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## JessLoveJ

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Yes, it's called a precocious udder. The first kids I had were triplets. One made an udder at a young age, maybe 5 months old. It's the only one I've had in 6 yrs. My neighbor has had several does kid with no udder development. Good udders on dam, no or almost no udder on these girls. It does happen


Fascinating! I had read also that pygmys are meat goats. They aren't known for big udders and milk lol. Go figure!


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## Agreenwd888

My 1.5 year old saanen had an udder before being bred for the last 8 months =)


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## Jrsno1fan

Mine did at about 1 year old. I could milk her as if she just had a baby but she had never been pregnant. Here's a little video I did at the time. This was taken Aug. 21 she bred and got pregnant on Sept. 19.


----------



## Jubillee

Have you looked at toxemia/ketosis? Sorry if it has been mentioned before. I can't remember now. I was looking for something concerning my own doe and came across this http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm

It lists some of the symptoms you said yours had, the teeth grinding, panting, etc.


----------



## Jrsno1fan

Jubillee said:


> Have you looked at toxemia/ketosis? Sorry if it has been mentioned before. I can't remember now. I was looking for something concerning my own doe and came across this http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm
> 
> It lists some of the symptoms you said yours had, the teeth grinding, panting, etc.


But if you look at my video above mine also had panting and teeth grinding. Jerks like spasms that I though was all signs of early labor and it wasn't.


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## Jubillee

Sorry, I was referring to JessLoveJ about it maybe not being labor (as confirmed by her vet) but actually ketosis.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Jubillee said:


> Have you looked at toxemia/ketosis? Sorry if it has been mentioned before. I can't remember now. I was looking for something concerning my own doe and came across this http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm
> 
> It lists some of the symptoms you said yours had, the teeth grinding, panting, etc.


Yes that was thing I thought of. But wasn't it. Vet was already here also for a second opinion. But thank you


----------



## JessLoveJ

Jrsno1fan said:


> Mine did at about 1 year old. I could milk her as if she just had a baby but she had never been pregnant. Here's a little video I did at the time. This was taken Aug. 21 she bred and got pregnant on Sept. 19.


Lol! That is so funny! Crazy goats!


----------



## JessLoveJ

Jubillee said:


> Sorry, I was referring to JessLoveJ about it maybe not being labor (as confirmed by her vet) but actually ketosis.


No it wasn't Ketosis which is what I thought first, before the mucous. Then I thought labor. Vet said neither, just a goat giving me a run around!  lol


----------



## JessLoveJ

goat girls said:


> Here's a good video on clipping goats for kidding


That is a great video on how to cut the hair. Only that goat looks hairless compared to my Anna's long hair  and oh my the udder that goat! LOL! But she's also the twice the size of my does. I will need to see about locating a milking stand before this All starts. Maybe better no one is kidding just yet so I can get more prepared.


----------



## goat girls

I don't trim mine that close as she did in the video.


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## JessLoveJ

This ones udder keeps growing  Not sure what to make of this.


----------



## MilkandMeatgoats

Any kids yet? Just thought I’d check in...hope all is well


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Any kids yet? Just thought I'd check in...hope all is well


Thank you! Well no kids just yet, but Anna's vulva is completely, 100% pink and bulging so much you see it sticking out when she's sideways, both started forming udders and Elsa's udder grows by the day. I have no idea when these kids are coming but I'm guessing soon! I'm going batty!


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## JessLoveJ

And I shaved their back ends lol


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## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Any kids yet? Just thought I'd check in...hope all is well












Ones teats has something constantly sticking out of it, do you know what it is? It's somewhat hard to see but it's shiny, or is it Milk? I don't know..


----------



## Goat_Scout

It is probably the milk plug.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Well her ligaments are still there but barely. Top photo is most recent, I'm losing my f%cking mind over here!  When will we have goat babies! Also, she is further along but my other does udder is HUGE and hers still is still on the smaller side but growing. Ugh


----------



## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> View attachment 127326
> 
> Well her ligaments are still there but barely. Top photo is most recent, I'm losing my f%cking mind over here!  When will we have goat babies! Also, she is further along but my other does udder is HUGE and hers still is still on the smaller side but growing. Ugh


Dang it! I thought for sure you were gonna be posting pics of kids!


----------



## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Dang it! I thought for sure you were gonna be posting pics of kids!


 trust me I did tell especially since today is one month since that day so was leaking her plug!


----------



## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Dang it! I thought for sure you were gonna be posting pics of kids!


Well Anna's ligs are practically gone, Elsa, the one with huge udder, still has hers rock hard!


----------



## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Dang it! I thought for sure you were gonna be posting pics of kids!


Also, I checked her two weeks ago, and I felt movement against my hand. Today I sat there foreeeeverrrr and felt nothing! Just a tight hard belly! So I think we're really close! Just no clue how close!


----------



## MilkandMeatgoats

JessLoveJ said:


> Well Anna's ligs are practically gone, Elsa, the one with huge udder, still has hers rock hard!


Is her udder soft? Just curious...I had one that I always had trouble with (congested udder nearly every kidding) and she always bagged up super early, at least a month in advance. I'd be curious to know if there's any connection to bagging up early and congested udders. I know tons of others that say theirs bag up early who have never complained of congested udders though...I always felt like I was sold this doe in particular because the previous owner had had "issues" with her in the past. She wasn't the only one we bought from this herd that we had problems with 

Can't wait to see pics of your new kids (when they finally decide they are ready for their new world)! I'm waiting along with you!


----------



## JessLoveJ

MilkandMeatgoats said:


> Is her udder soft? Just curious...I had one that I always had trouble with (congested udder nearly every kidding) and she always bagged up super early, at least a month in advance. I'd be curious to know if there's any connection to bagging up early and congested udders. I know tons of others that say theirs bag up early who have never complained of congested udders though...I always felt like I was sold this doe in particular because the previous owner had had "issues" with her in the past. She wasn't the only one we bought from this herd that we had problems with
> 
> Can't wait to see pics of your new kids (when they finally decide they are ready for their new world)! I'm waiting along with you!


I have never heard of a congested udder before. All I know is their teats have been enlarged soon after being bred, udder didn't begin developing until about a month ago. But only one has an udder getting huge. They are also both FF and when I contact the Breeder with questions she never writes back. All she said was that hers bag up right before delivery out of nowhere. Also Anna's udder is soft as of now.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Udders keep growing, one is pawing and the other that lost mucous on the 8th of a January, had more mucous yesterday and is all hollowed out with a prominent vulva still. Going to lost my mind like this.


----------



## Agreenwd888

Goat is usually ready when udder is fuller and tight. Do you have a positive preg. test on this one could be a precocious udder


----------



## Goat_Scout

It looks like her udder is definitely getting bigger! I think she still has a little ways to go though.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Goat is usually ready when udder is fuller and tight. Do you have a positive preg. test on this one could be a precocious udder


 yes!


----------



## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> It looks like her udder is definitely getting bigger! I think she still has a little ways to go though.


Well I wish the pictures would do better justice, it's much bigger to the naked eye. It's crazy!


----------



## Agreenwd888

I'm used to saanen udders!! Hahaha I have girls developing an udder with 6 weeks to go.


----------



## Agreenwd888

Some of my goats hollow out weeks before and some days before. I just noticed my girl that is due Saturday. Has mushy ligaments started 3 days ago. So that's mushy ligaments about 5-6 days before. I can also wrap my fingers under her tail bone. I look for a tight udder look at the udder everyday. You may notive a prominant difference the day she kids. It's really hard to know unless you have a breeding date. I would go crazy if I did not have mine marked on a calendar. I also had ultrasound done so that I know how many kids to expect from each doe. Takes the guessing out =)


----------



## Agreenwd888

This girl is due in 8 days


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> This girl is due in 8 days


My goat, entirely, is about half the size of your goat  and went from speckles of teats to the huge thing she has swinging now. Would doubt it ends up the same size she is.


----------



## Agreenwd888

And this one is due in 12 days from when I took the photo, first time freshener carrying 1 kid, the other picture is a doe carrying 2


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> And this one is due in 12 days from when I took the photo, first time freshener carrying 1 kid, the other picture is a doe carrying 2


That's because yours are dairy goats and not to mention twice the size of my does. They are beautiful! I've had them confirmed twice now though. Not to mention we had a whole lot of mounting, as you see here, all August through October  Also the Breeder told me Anna's mother had no udder until she kidded. And size wise, it's about what she's right now lol


----------



## JessLoveJ

I doubt my vet is wrong. Especially after I paid him $88 for a farm call. And last months discharge wasn’t a heat, it was ketosis, confirmed by the vet.


----------



## Agreenwd888

Have you checked ligaments?


----------



## Agreenwd888

Oh ya I remember your posts from a month ago. Her udder is bigger.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Have you checked ligaments?


Oh my gosh, I think I'm a pro now  I don't know how many videos I watched and how many times I've chased them until I caught one just to check LOL! so they were hard to find at first a few months ago, but were pretty hard last month. Two days ago they were mushy and today hardly there, sooo soft!


----------



## Agreenwd888

Next time you can get a marking harness. it helps =). I change the crayon color every 2-2.5 weeks. If I see a doe marked with one color and then not marked again after 3.5 weeks then I know she's bred. I had all my does in with a male aug-oct. My last goat to take was 2 cycles behind the 1st one that took. So my kidding of 5 goats is spread out first 3 this week, one in 4 weeks and one more another 2 weeks later. Harnesses are $20-40 with crayons at caprinesupply.com. can mark down the exact day bred just check color mark on does butt each day =) it's kind of fun too


----------



## Agreenwd888

Maybe she is within a week then of kidding? They come out eventually =)


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Maybe she is within a week then of kidding? They come out eventually =)


Lol! That's what I'm hoping! There's another thread with a woman who has a goat pregnant with her third kidding and her goats udder is smaller than my white ones udder. At least from pictures. And I know what you mean, because Elsa, ironically the one with the biggest udder, stayed in heat after I thought she was bred the first time, I think until November. But Anna, the brown one who never went back into heat again, has a much smaller udder. But I think it's not smaller, she just carries it up more forward and closer to her body. And also lost her plug last month!  I just need one of these does to have babies already so I'm not sitting here everyday of my life losing my mind. I've had my "delivery go bag of essentials" ready since November!!  And both have teats that have tripled in size with milk plugs and out of nowhere the past three weeks have bulging vulvas. I know we have to be close!!


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Next time you can get a marking harness. it helps =). I change the crayon color every 2-2.5 weeks. If I see a doe marked with one color and then not marked again after 3.5 weeks then I know she's bred. I had all my does in with a male aug-oct. My last goat to take was 2 cycles behind the 1st one that took. So my kidding of 5 goats is spread out first 3 this week, one in 4 weeks and one more another 2 weeks later. Harnesses are $20-40 with crayons at caprinesupply.com. can mark down the exact day bred just check color mark on does butt each day =) it's kind of fun too


I wish I had known about the marks. Would have saved me from losing my mind!! Lol


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Maybe she is within a week then of kidding? They come out eventually =)


















This is what she had on the 8th last month. Then two days ago a bit more of clear discharge. And the bulging vulva. I don't know what to do with myself anymore.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Maybe she is within a week then of kidding? They come out eventually =)











The collage is her vulva from September to last week. The other photo is yesterday.








This has to indicate something!


----------



## Agreenwd888

What date was the buck pulled out from being with her?


----------



## Agreenwd888

Any kids yet?


----------



## JessLoveJ

Agreenwd888 said:


> Any kids yet?


Nothing yet! BUT, udders keep growing to my surprise. I really didn't they think could get much bigger for their small size but nope, I was wrong. One goats spine is sticking out but still nothing!!







these photos are a compilation from just beginning of February! Lol! I've been waiting since September! Ligs are still there last I checked but were softer. They always seem to have posty legs also and ones babies have definitely dropped so only thing I'm looking for at this point is mucous!


----------



## JessLoveJ

And the photos of larger udders were last week, they have grown since. Loosing my mind...


----------



## JessLoveJ

this is the goats who's spine is protruding and she's hollowed out on her back sides. I will get a new photo today.


----------



## JessLoveJ

Here are updated udders. Top ones ligs are totally soft, bottom right still a bit firm. Can't take this any longer


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## JessLoveJ

I always feel the udders also, they are always squishy! Except the top does, her udder is much more firm.


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## JessLoveJ

Ok so she's been standing with her front legs on a tire. Her udder has gotten big and tight over night. Ligs have been gone (can't feel them at least), are we close!? Of course I'm working all weekend again and rains are coming yet again.


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## goatblessings

Looks like she has a bit to go...... sorry lost track...... what breed and are they FF?


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> Looks like she has a bit to go...... sorry lost track...... what breed and are they FF?


Mini dwarf pygmy. And I can't imagine much longer. Confirmed bred by blood test in October


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## goatblessings

If this is her first time, I would think soon - all you can do is keep an eye on her. If you think she is that close, make sure she can get to a warm, draft free area to kid while you are away......I would also separate her from the others...


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> If this is her first time, I would think soon - all you can do is keep an eye on her. If you think she is that close, make sure she can get to a warm, draft free area to kid while you are away......I would also separate her from the others...


Will do!! Thank you!


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> If this is her first time, I would think soon - all you can do is keep an eye on her. If you think she is that close, make sure she can get to a warm, draft free area to kid while you are away......I would also separate her from the others...


Well her udder is even larger, bones are way out and tail has been crooked to the side with leaking mucous for days. She keeps getting up on rocks and a tire in her pen and when she does this she keeps lifting one leg up and down, then the other. Not sure what's going on.  is she still trying to position them?


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## ksalvagno

She is trying to get comfortable and probably some pain relief from babies pressing on her.


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## toth boer goats

I agree.


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## JessLoveJ

Her babies have definitely dropped, udder is big, full and right, mucous for the past few days, and she doesn't stop raising her legs on a small rock and the back leg thing with sporadic contractions. I can't imagine her going on another day like this. And she only picks at her food. But hasn't touched it for hours.


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## JessLoveJ

These were from yesterday


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## JessLoveJ

now it's more stretched in appearance, not looking as hairy


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## Goat_Scout

Getting closer!
I'm so sorry, I totally forgot about posting pictures of some of my FF does looked like right before they kidded! I will upload some in a minute....


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Getting closer!
> I'm so sorry, I totally forgot about posting pictures of some of my FF does looked like right before they kidded! I will upload some in a minute....


She is going nuts she can't lay down for more than 5 minutes but no big long string of mucous just yet.  her udder is HUGE though omg. Literally three times the size of my other doe who is pregnant, but she is also much smaller, I'm think one kid, and for her, two at least.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Getting closer!
> I'm so sorry, I totally forgot about posting pictures of some of my FF does looked like right before they kidded! I will upload some in a minute....


Pictures would be AMAZING!


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## Goat_Scout

Okay, here they are. 

These first two were twin Fainting goats, they were very short and small like a mini, but also super thick. 
Penelope a couple days before kidding... I always thought that for a Fainting goat, she had quite a large udder!








Magnolia, the day before she kidded with twin doelings. 








This was Kendall, my Mini-Lamancha, two days before kidding. She was also very small, despite being a high % Lamancha. She had twins. 








And for cuteness' sake, here are Kendall's twins! Midge is the kid standing up, I still own her and she just kidding for the first time on January 14!








And then this is Hildy. This picture was taken a week before kidding. The next one was taken a couple hours before she had a single buckling. You can see how much she filled! All of my FFs filled a ton in the 24 hours before they kidded.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Okay, here they are.
> 
> These first two were twin Fainting goats, they were very short and small like a mini, but also super thick.
> Penelope a couple days before kidding... I always thought that for a Fainting goat, she had quite a large udder!
> View attachment 129428
> 
> Magnolia, the day before she kidded with twin doelings.
> View attachment 129431
> 
> This was Kendall, my Mini-Lamancha, two days before kidding. She was also very small, despite being a high % Lamancha. She had twins.
> View attachment 129429
> 
> And for cuteness' sake, here are Kendall's twins! Midge is the kid standing up, I still own her and she just kidding for the first time on January 14!
> View attachment 129430
> 
> And then this is Hildy. This picture was taken a week before kidding. The next one was taken a couple hours before she had a single buckling. You can see how much she filled! All of my FFs filled a ton in the 24 hours before they kidded.
> View attachment 129432
> 
> View attachment 129433


Whoa!! Sooo cute those baby kids  well I dont see any as teeny tiny as my Anna lol! She is super small and short  But my friend who runs a dairy farm out in Minnesota sent me pictures of her goats udders and she seems about there. Ligs have gone to mush and felt no movement today. I did get a big kick last week! I can't wait  and thank you!!! She keeps having contractions so Maybe as they get closer together her udder will grow. Hers looks about the size of Kendall's in the first photo although she much smaller than Kendall is.  here's to hoping! Rubbed her belly just now and prayed!


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## JessLoveJ

Take that back, it’s like a mix up between Kendall’s and Hildy! Lol


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## Goat_Scout

Aw, hopefully she won't keep you waiting much longer!

Currently I am keeping an eye on this girl... I think she is due on the 20th or so, but after she kept cycling I just put her in with the buck and lost track of her heats, so I'm not sure.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Aw, hopefully she won't keep you waiting much longer!
> 
> Currently I am keeping an eye on this girl... I think she is due on the 20th or so, but after she kept cycling I just put her in with the buck and lost track of her heats, so I'm not sure.
> View attachment 129434


LOL she looks due any second! But that's the nightmare, I've thought mine were due months ago  and I hope not either! I really REALLY can't take it anymore!


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## toth boer goats

All looking good.


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## JessLoveJ

toth boer goats said:


> All looking good.


She's been bleating and having more contractions today!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

How's she doing?


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> How's she doing?


Well she knows goat code well, that's for sure! Today I noticed more hip bones and she was laying on her side bleeting, panting and just acting weird. Then she rolled over onto her back and jumped up and I saw this. She's been doing all of that, again and again, since!


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## JessLoveJ

Well she still hasn’t gone into labor. I’m a little worried because she isn’t eating like her normal self, lays down and gets up constantly while moaning, it’s like these little whiny sounds, I’ve never heard her do that and on top constantly.


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## goatblessings

I would call a vet. Is she open enough to go in? The discharge is not enough to be considered "goo" - but her behavior concerns me.


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## JessLoveJ

And we're getting somewhere. She didn't want to eat this morning and was just standing for the longest time. Then found her laying down grunting again with this mucous. She's had quite a few contentions wondering how long from this point.


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> I would call a vet. Is she open enough to go in? The discharge is not enough to be considered "goo" - but her behavior concerns me.


How about now?


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## goatblessings

Do you have a pic? Are they contractions with pushing? I would want to see kids on the ground within 30 minutes of pushing.


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> Do you have a pic? Are they contractions with pushing? I would want to see kids on the ground within 30 minutes of pushing.


















No pushing yet, a lot of getting up and down and up and down, teeth grinding my ears aren't taking well and soft bleating with each heavy breath.


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## goatblessings

I would separate her into a warm draft free place and get the kidding kit ready. Since every doe is so very different it's hard to tell..... has she dropped?


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## JessLoveJ

goatblessings said:


> I would separate her into a warm draft free place and get the kidding kit ready. Since every doe is so very different it's hard to tell..... has she dropped?


She dropped days ago from my all day every second of the day, observations lol! It's draft free and 90 degrees, I don't want to move her just yet, kidding kit is ready to go! Just waiting for her to kid, I have the pads, towels, etc. and then will move all to a fully enclosed shed/barn I have. I'm hoping today! She isn't doing much, didn't even eat today and that never happens!


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## JessLoveJ

Ok no pushing yet but she's starting to dilate and more mucous is coming out, I have to finish my work but I'm scared to walk away and end up one of those stories I read here.."I went inside for 5 minutes and bam, two kids on the ground"


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## JessLoveJ

Well she's still not eating this morning like she usually does, no pushing yet but the mucous is still coming


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## Goat_Scout

Her udder is pretty big! Did it slowly fill to that size or just yesterday morning did you notice that it was bigger?


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Her udder is pretty big! Did it slowly fill to that size or just yesterday morning did you notice that it was bigger?










it was this big just three days ago 








And then inflated to this size yesterday about four hours after we saw the first blob of mucous that has been never ending by the way.


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Her udder is pretty big! Did it slowly fill to that size or just yesterday morning did you notice that it was bigger?


I thought she would never have that "shiny tight full look" they speak of because of her hair but it happened lol still waiting for her to kid. Just a lot of moaning


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## Goat_Scout

It should definitely be soon then! How are her ligaments?


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> It should definitely be soon then! How are her ligaments?


They were gone last time I checked


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> It should definitely be soon then! How are her ligaments?


She keeps laying down in a corner with her butt up against the fence with her back legs curled under, she grinds and makes noises when trying to do it, it's as if she's trying to keep them in!  it's so bizarre!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> It should definitely be soon then! How are her ligaments?


Ok I just checked right now and GONE! Nothing! Nada! Zip! And believe me I know where they are, I have checked everyday since I posted this thread


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## Goat_Scout

Yay! Keep us updated!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Yay! Keep us updated!


Now when do I start to worry? She hasn't tried pushing at all but she's still just laying down and getting up, breathing heavily. She's lost an unbelievable amount of mucous and ligaments are 110% gone!  I'm going crazzzyyyy!!!


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## Goat_Scout

How is she now? Is she pawing, pacing, and getting up even within a minute or two of lying down? Is it hot out (labored breathing doesn’t sound right)?


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## Goat_Scout

Any updates?


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## lottsagoats1

I think the doe pushed poor Jess over the edge and she is in a corner sucking her thumb and rocking back and forth! Lol


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## mariella

Sorry to say this but I don't think she is ready yet. In the pictures her belly hasn't dropped yet and her udder isn't at it's fullest yet. I have a doe that has discharge her entire pregnancy and carries to day 155.


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## JessLoveJ

lottsagoats1 said:


> I think the doe pushed poor Jess over the edge and she is in a corner sucking her thumb and rocking back and forth! Lol


YES! You got that 100% right!!! LOL! Omg well she still isn't eating much and pacing, still loosing mucous she keeps standing up with her front legs on the tire, lays down, gets up, smells all around and lays back down.


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## JessLoveJ

mariella said:


> Sorry to say this but I don't think she is ready yet. In the pictures her belly hasn't dropped yet and her udder isn't at it's fullest yet. I have a doe that has discharge her entire pregnancy and carries to day 155.












Her udder is maxed out lol! She's a first time pregnant doe and for her size, smaller than my 65lb Dalmatian, I can't imagine her getting any bigger until her freshening. And then that would leave me even greater concern because her ligaments are completely gone!  She's just torturing me!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> How is she now? Is she pawing, pacing, and getting up even within a minute or two of lying down? Is it hot out (labored breathing doesn't sound right)?


She is doing ALL of that STILL, standing up on things, hiding her stomach along the side, more mucous,  oh lord! Time for a margarita! It's 5'o clock somewhere! LOL


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## JessLoveJ

This morning I checked her ligaments again and her right ligament is back, left is still gone  The last time she was with the buck was first week of November, so she has to be due any minute


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## JessLoveJ

Well while I've been in here posting about my brown goat Anna, I walked over today to check on them and my little white goat Elsa was with a hoof sticking out. I had to reposition the baby to get both hooves and she delivered a beautifully baby doe to our surprise at 4:55pm pacific time


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## Goat_Scout

Awww, congratulations!!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Awww, congratulations!!


Thank you! And this is the doe everyone swore had a precocious udder LOL!!!! Well, that answered that!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Congrats!!!


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## JessLoveJ

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Congrats!!!


Thank you Suzanne! ️ I'm still in so much shock! I can't believe I did it! She only had one hoof so I had to push it back and find the other hoof and then pulled her right out, it was amazing! I think she probably felt so bad for me watching and waiting for Anna to kid all day everyday, she figured she would give me a kid! LOL


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## JessLoveJ

Question, how often should the kid be on mamas teats? I have to help her latch every time but they are both having a hard time getting the hang of it, not sure if I just wait it out and how long?


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## JessLoveJ




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## JessLoveJ

And my other doe FINALLY kidded today!  it was traumatic! Both tried to come out at the same time! I struggled and pulled and pulled and pulled and prayed! Finally one came out and then immediately after the other! Two doelings!


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## Goat_Scout

Wow, good job getting them out! And congratulations on the doelings! Have you picked names out for them yet?

I had a young doe this year in labor with two kids coming out at once, and I had to rearrange and pull both, one after the other. But all I got for my labor was twin bucklings!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Wow, good job getting them out! And congratulations on the doelings! Have you picked names out for them yet?
> 
> I had a young doe this year in labor with two kids coming out at once, and I had to rearrange and pull both, one after the other. But all I got for my labor was twin bucklings!


Omg! That's crazy! With everything I read I thought for sure we would have bucks! But I also read about the apple cider vinegar old wives tale, so I bought some organic raw vinegar and would add it from time to time to the water lol! And I was terrified! When I saw both bubbles spill out I screamed! Of course it had to happen to me! I pushed one back and tried to feel for a hoof and with that one came the other just underneath it's head so I pulled and pulled, omg she was soooo stuck! I was telling my husband to call a vet! And here in California, most people don't have anything but dogs, there is no help for me here and even the woman I got my goats from knows nothing and one neighbor has a barn but hate pets. I was freaking out. before I could finish drying her off the other does head was already sticking out so I put the first doe in front of mom on the pee pad, grab another pad and get the other baby out. I'm still shaking!   Just keeping a close eye on mom now in case she prolapses. So far just swelling, cleaned her up, banamine, warm water with molasses, antibiotics and lots of yummy feed! Made sure babies were nursing, took forever with this one, and made myself a DRINK.  I am soooo thankful for this forum and for the Facebook farm groups. With farmers in my area being far and few, I couldn't have done it without everyone's help. Even those who said they weren't pregnant, it only pushed me more to study and read to know better in the future for other outcomes and better prepare for these deliveries. I didn't feel so alone! Thank you all! ️


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## Goat_Scout

You've had a tough day! I'm so glad they are all doing OK. And the doelings are so stinkin' cute!


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## JessLoveJ

Goat_Scout said:


> Wow, good job getting them out! And congratulations on the doelings! Have you picked names out for them yet?
> 
> I had a young doe this year in labor with two kids coming out at once, and I had to rearrange and pull both, one after the other. But all I got for my labor was twin bucklings!


Named the brown one tequila, I need it too lol! And the black and white doe we haven't decided if she will be Leche or Moolah. 
Also I will say both my teeny tiny does udders did her monstrous, but not as fast I believe most thought they should have been going. They grew ever so gradually from about 12 weeks from their due date and then literally the last two weeks of pregnancy is when they grew the most! 
Also NEITHER goat had that long string of mucous hanging before labor! The goat with twins dropped the white goat did not! 
Nothing on goat kidding signs was helpful whatsoever, just my luck! LOL 
Elsa my white doe, I'm not sure if it's because she has a single doeling or what, but we had checked on them several times so were shocked to kind her kidding. 
Anna I knew was going to kid because she would NOT shut up! She hasn't been very chatty whatsoever, only always breathing heavily like she had no room left and the same as she was in labor, for the past three months, some days even worse than her labored breathing  But she was loud, eyes were dilated and at times eyes rolling back and as she would get up and lay down everywhere she would always come back to lay next to me, lick me and then bleat in my face like why can't you HEEELLPPP MEEE. I knew she was telling me something  She would lay down to push, nothing! And get back up. Then about the 7th time she did that next to me, I saw her slightly opened and thought ok soon! And I attached a photo of that because it's all I had before bubbles started coming, I knew if I posted it most would probably have said, nope, no goo or bubble, so no babies yet.
One thing I did realize is since the 28th BOTH does lost a plug and for 5 consecutive days, (up until delivery) both had very little clear discharge throughout the day, easy to miss if you're not practically living in the pen like I have been. It's a miracle I was able to see both kid!LOL! 
But now I don't think Anna, yesterdays doe, dilated completely, I knew something was off at the sight of bubble one and than the second bubble with it. It's like Elsa kidded first to help me. I thought ok... two bubbles almost squeezed all the way out, but no hoofs, no noses, what's happening.. so I went in. And with how much strength I had to give to pull each one out, Im positive she wasn't dilated completely, not to mention first doeling was quite large! I did a cool antiseptic cleanse afterwards with benadine as a precautionary in case of any prolapse but all is well. She's just soar poor gal! 
Do you think she should dilate better next go around? And that next time better be a long time  I need a looooong break before any kiddings happen again, the struggle was real LOL 
Also I know with us woman when we have heart burn they tend to say our babies have more hair, now I can recall breathing being a task at certain points in my own pregnancies and can't help but think "kidding signs" mean absolutely nothing! Goats are a lot like us woman! Each one is so unique in how they will deliver and respond. And now seeing as how her does were born so dang fluffy and what appears to be winter coats, that along with their size, perhaps overdue as well, could be why she would burp so often and always had labored breathing!? I don't know but what I do know is other than only Anna being loud, getting up and down and demanding my presence, and her being the only one who's udder really engorged the day prior, according to kidding signs, she had been kidding since January from my observation! Lol!

Now I had also read to carefully monitor each does pattern of delivery to better know next time as they repeat the same cycle. Now how accurate is that information? I'm curious to know is it again like woman, where the second natural delivery will be easier? Or will I be better requesting from a vet medication to assist Annas dilating? 
And will they ever get that looong glob of goo to the ground as my forewarning? 

And all my little white doe Elsa taught me was, keep checking and don't plan on going anywhere, because I will be a surprise each time! LOL


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## JessLoveJ

I'm also going to attach these to this thread to help anyone else lost like I was, and still am after these does, to see the gradual progress. Udder really began 12 weeks from kidding for the FF. But I observed closely & frequently. Also in Anna's photos, brown doe, second from the left in the second row begins from about 30 days from kidding. As you see the last month for me was really when udder enlargement began. Where most last month would say they had a long long while to go or precocious udders. 
Now for Elsa, her udder began about two weeks from kidding. So we really weren't thinking she would kid anytime soon. I really began to believe what everyone said, that she was perhaps precocious and mimicking a false pregnancy perhaps because of Anna, or still had a long long long way to go. But nope. Left is her udder March 2nd and right is her udder April 2nd, when she kidded.


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## Goat_Scout

I'd be hesitant to believe that she didn't fully dilate. Labor is generally harder on first fresheners (because it is their first time) and so it may take a little longer for them to kid than it does seasoned does. My last pregnant doe (a 3rd freshener) kidded yesterday, and - once in early labor - she popped her kid out very quickly (so much so that I missed it!) compared to my 6 FFs this year.

Like you said, every doe is different, but we all mention the more "common" signs of labor to hopefully help people. None of my does have had much mucous in the hours before kidding, and never have I seen the amber goo. Also, "dropping" is not a definite sign of impending labor either, it might not happen (or might not be very noticeable) at all and then again it may happen _days_ before kidding/calving. Unfortunately it's all just a guessing game!


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## Ranger1

Does almost always feel tight until the first kid comes out. In my experience, when does are not fully dilated, you might not be able to get in, or if you do, you will go through what feels like a rubber band, a little ways inside the doe. 
And yes, I’ve never looked for the amber goo thing. I think it’s supposed to mean that the doe’s water has broken, but only a couple of my does have ever had amber goo. Usually their water breaks, and there is nothing hanging until after the first kid is born!


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## lottsagoats1

Congrats on a job well done!!!!!!!!!!! You're a goat midwife now!

I have a doe, a 4F now, that never shows any signs of birth. I mean nothing. Belly stays high and tight, vulva stays tight, ligs stay hard and tight. Udder is barely there. Most of the time I swear she isn't pregnant and then suddenly- there's a kid. The past 2 years I did a check, found nothing and 15 minutes later- babies! She doesn't even paw, talk, push, groan, nest....I'm talking absolutely NOTHING! It is so bizarre!


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## New-goat-mom

Good job getting those babies out! I, too, am glad I won't be doing this again for a long time! When my Eliza kidded, she had hooves out but no head on her first one. I finally went into check and she was definitely not fully dilated. I couldn't even get my hand in at first. I just gently rotated my hand when she would push and could feel it opening more. I am sure everyone already knows this, but just thought I should throw it out there in case someone doesn't, only pull the kid (or whatever baby it happens to be) when the mom is pushing.


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## JessLoveJ

New-goat-mom said:


> Good job getting those babies out! I, too, am glad I won't be doing this again for a long time! When my Eliza kidded, she had hooves out but no head on her first one. I finally went into check and she was definitely not fully dilated. I couldn't even get my hand in at first. I just gently rotated my hand when she would push and could feel it opening more. I am sure everyone already knows this, but just thought I should throw it out there in case someone doesn't, only pull the kid (or whatever baby it happens to be) when the mom is pushing.


Yes we waited until she was pushing once I felt a hood. I couldn't tell you how many YouTube videos I watched to prepare lol! Yeah no she definitely wasn't dilated, I could only get a couple of fingers and when I was able to get my hand she tore a bit, you could hear it


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