# Great now look! (and opinions)



## Crissa

Look at this little guy Candace just offered me! He's absolutely GORGEOUS! And I think I'm going to go ahead and get him! (I know a little early to be getting a buck but I think I'll be offering him for stud and everything)










I'm totally in love!!


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## Crissa

He looks like (correct me if I'm wrong) he has good angulation in his legs, down hill and level, level rump, good dairy character (maybe???) and great coloration! Anything I'm missing? Or am I completely wrong?


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## StaceyRosado

you know I don't know much about all that "show" stuff but he sure looks REALLY nice to me!!!


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## Crissa

LOL. I was so excited when Candace told me about him! I've been looking for a nice spotted nubian buckling for next year, and then one of her does just had this guy 36 hours ago and she told me about him and showed me two pics and I was SOLD.


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## goathappy

I think he's very nice, he could use more body capacity but that comes with age of course :wink: What's his dam look like?


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## Crissa

One second I'll get the link, although it's a very old pic is what Candace said.

Dam: http://bar6diamondranch.com/diamondpedigree.htm

Sire: http://treasuredtapestry.com/Henry'spedigree.htm


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## FarmGirl18

He's really pretty Crissa! Looks quite nice although it's hard to tell everything when they're that young.


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## Crissa

I know but hopefully he'd stay nice. LOL I just messaged you.


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## FarmGirl18

And I just messaged you back.


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## nancy d

Crissa he is really nice tho I don't know that much. His dam is beautiful, the sire didnt show up. 
Is that you or Candace in the pic? Whover it is those goat jeans sure look familier!


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## StaceyRosado

for the sir just copy and paste the whole link into the browser field and it will bring up the page - it worked that way for me


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## fritzie

i think he is very nice. it is hard to say what they will be like as the mature but to me he is off to a good start.


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## Sweet Gum Minis

Very handsome and very nice! Congratulations!!!


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## Dover Farms

For me...it's hard to tell. He is stretching in that pic and any goat will look nice across the topline when stretching. I looked at both of his parents and both have short, steep rumps. That is where your girls are weak...you won't be improving your girls then if you get a buck with the same problems. His dam seemed a bit narrow and I didn't like the topline of either of his parents. He also seems a bit crooked in the front legs.

I am not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but I would not get him. I want you get the best buck possible to improve your does. If you want to show, my opinion is don't get him...if you don't care about showing and just want color...go for it.

Just my honest opinion.


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## Hailee's Herd

He's cute. I like the spots.


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## sparks879

I agree with dover farms, though he is very young and could potentially improve in body capacity he is very narrow and shallow through the barrel even for a two day old kid. if you look at his rib cage he gets more shallow as you follow it back, he is deeper in his heart girth then he is in the rear part of his barrel. He should be getting deeper as you fallow his barrel back. Something about his feet and legs just doesn't look right. his front legs look like the bow out some and then come back in at the feet. he looks like he toes in pretty bad in the front.
His parents both have steep rumps. His dam is very shallow through the barrel as well. im assuming she is a yearling in that picture. She seems really narrow and pinched looking all the way down her body. 
He does apear to have a nice set of shoulders and be very uphill. His rump looks nice now but if you look at the angle of his rear legs he looks as if he is going to be posty, bot a lot of angulation there which usually comes with a steep rump, there isnlt much length from his hips to his pins. 
The ultimate choice is up to you but if your looking to show kids out of your does i wouldn;t get him. I don;t think he is going to make the improvements you want in your herd. Though he is a pretty color and has spots spots don;t win in the show ring. I would rather havea plain looking buck that has better confirmation then a not so good buck with color.
Like Dover said i don;t want to burst your bubble as you seem really excited about him but if your looking for show i don;t think i would get him. Do you have any pictures of his dam with an udder?
beth


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## Crissa

Well Heidi isn't registered and I'll probably end up keeping her unregistered. (could NOA her if I wanted but I don't think I will) And Lyric will only be registered if we can find the dams papers or maybe as just 50%. And then the registered doe I'm getting has everything he doesn't like a nice flat rump and everything so I think I might still get him. Even if only to use on the unregistered girls. We'll see. Thanks for the advice and everything! :greengrin:


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## Muddy Creek Farm

What doe are you getting?


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## Dover Farms

I would like to know too!  

Do you have any pics of his dam's udder? That is another thing I would look at. I've read...."Your buck's dam should be nicer than the doe your are breeding him to"...something on that line anyways. I hope whatever you decide to do...it improves your herd.


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## Crissa

http://www.freewebs.com/caperingvalleyn ... eslist.htm

It's Dill's Epsilon Lyrae. Course now that I really look a little closer at her her rump's a little steeper than I originally thought. Hhmmm, I might also just kid a kid out of a breeding, I haven't really completely decided yet. :roll:


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## sparks879

ok im confused, is that his dam? because thats not the same doe that you posted pictures of before that i thought was his dam.
beth


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## Crissa

No that's the doe I'm planning on getting or the breeder I'm getting a doeling from, haven't exactly figured out which yet.


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## Muddy Creek Farm

I like Lyrae, I would get her if I was you. Have they seen her udder?


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## goathappy

I would get Lyrae, I see a lot of potential in her.


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## Crissa

Cool. Do you like the buck she's bred too? I fell in love with her when I saw her and the owner wishes that they didn't have to sell her. :greengrin:


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## goathappy

His rump appears a bit steep and he doesn't really had the body capacity. I'd like to see a pic of his dam because bucks don't always look as nice as their dams :wink:


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## Crissa

Here's his dam.

http://caperingvalleynubians.com/id70.htm


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## sparks879

I like the doe, very dair and uphill though i would like to see her a little more level over the rump. Not a big fan of the buck she is bred to or his dam. But that doesn;t mean anything sometimes genetics click and you still get nice kids.
beth


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## goathappy

I think his dam is nice, she has nice angularity, dairy character, general appearance. It appears she has nice teats when she's in milk, IDK about the rest of her udder though.


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## sparks879

i guess the two biggest points i don;t like about her are her shoulders and her udder. And to me these are two very important things in a dairy doe. Her shoulders are a little loose, not as smooth as i would like to see. 
As for her udder, I don;t know how many hours of milk there is there, but judging by the way her udder looks in that particular picture, her teats point out and are placed too far to the outside. She will rub her teats as she walks and teats placed too far out can make it very diffucult to milk. Though her foreudder is smooth, its very short as to where it connects to her belly, as she fills to capacity over the years you will see a pocket develope there. can;t see much with her rear udder, but judging by the way her teats point foreward there isn't much rear udder support there. Judging by the way her rear legs are set she looks hocky as well. You can usually tell that bu where their feet are placed. Im seeing her toes point put and away from her body rather then straight ahead, causing her hocks to turn in. In the picture of her udderyou can see it again and see how close those hocks are together. See if you can get a rear shot of her as well as a front shot. Ask the breeder to include the feet. I have asked for those angles many times only to see that the picture has cut off the feet. Something very important to me. as those feet are going to be what carries that doe around her entire life. They need to be able to hold up to years of kids milk and just plain living.
This is just my 2 cents.
beth


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## Crissa

Okay sparks are you talking about Lyrae or the bucks dam? :? Sorry I'm a little tired and can't really keep up. :lol:


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## Dover Farms

Beth is talking about the bucks dam. :wink: 

Since Lyrae is 4 years old...do they have udder pics of her?

BTW I think Lyrae is a good choice...I don't like the buck she is bred to though. Lyrae has decent bloodlines as well.

Just some helpful advice from my experience: Find the bloodlines you like...for example Kastdemur's, LakeShore, Goldthwaite, Saada, Jacobs Pride, whatever. Save up money to buy a buck that has the bloodlines you like up real close(like parents or grandparents) and get him. He may be expensive, but trust me...he will be worth it! We got our first goat in 2001 and had our first babies in 2003....our herd hasn't really started going anywhere until last year..well actually 2006. In 2006 I bought Libby...she didn't do well at all as a kid(it didn't help when she wouldn't walk in the show ring) and I didn't think she was that nice(still learning what a nice goat looks like! :lol: ). Last spring we got Cass and Flicka...I payed $250 for Flicka and Mom and I split the cost of Cass...which was $500. This spring Mom is getting her own doe that will be $350 and we are getting another buck and we are splitting his cost which will be $450. We have a lot of money tied up in these new goats, but they are well worth it! The first couple of years I drooled over Kastdemur's and LakeShore's goats...never thought I would actually own one of that close relation! Always thought they were way too expensive...and they kind of are..that is why we get ours "indirectly" through breeders that have purchased animals from those herds. I never would have dreamed that I would ever own a grand kid of Summer(LakeShore doe)...let alone two!! We are finding out that even though they are expensive..they are TOTALLY worth it.

I just thought I would share. Oh and most breeders are more than willing to work out some kind of payment system with you. We didn't pay Cass and Flicka off right away.


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## Muddy Creek Farm

I agree with Jacque. although Nigerians are a bit more expensive.... I would say the average price I have payed for each of my goats is $450 - $500. It is well worth it to invest in some great stock.


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## StaceyRosado

I think if you really like Lyrea and she is with in budget then go for it. She can always be bred to another better buck in the future. The kid/s won't get your herd name anyway.


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## Muddy Creek Farm

Stacey made a great point!


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## sparks879

Again I agree with Dover farms. A good buck may be expensive but he will be worth it. Three years ago i got my buck buster. By the time i shipped him and everything i have invested over seven hundred dollars into him. He was more thenw orth it. He made so many more improvements then ANY other buck i had ever owned. 
By the way i was talking about the bucks dam. I like lyrae, for the most part. I think she will be a good start for a good breeding program.
beth


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## Crissa

Okay well I guess Lyrae it is then! (good I really really liked her) I emailed them asking if I needed to put a deposit on her to hold her or not. I agree that I should save money and get good stock to start with, although I will have to say that Lyric and Heidi aren't going anywhere! :greengrin: 

Thanks everyone for your input! It's really helped me a lot!


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## Crissa

Nope don't have to put a deposit down! :greengrin: They'll hold her on sale pending until I get her. Yay!

Okay could you guys that are good with this go look at her kidding schedule and see if there's any does that I should look at buck kids from?


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## Muddy Creek Farm

Congrats Crissa! I really do not see a doe of their's that I would get a buck from. If I was you I would save up and get a buck from Dills A Little Goat Farm - http://dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/nubians.htm

There is a nice doe that will be for sale after kidding, she is the second to last one on this page - http://dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/nubianseniordoes.htm FLAT RUMP


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## Muddy Creek Farm

I LOVE the doe that they are selling, I think she is gorgeous.


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## Dover Farms

Chels...your talking about Lebeau, right? I love her...she is absolutely gorgeous!

I wouldn't get a buck out of those does where Lyrae is coming from. I don't think any of them are nice enough to be considered buck choices....and I don't really like any of their herd sires.

As for one from Dills A Little Goat Farm...I would go with CH Easy-Stream Extatic and Kastdemur's Easy Access. Those buck kids are $800...so maybe a little too much. Then I think I would go with Lebeau and Easy Access...those buck kids are only $400.


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## LiddleGoteGurl

I agree, I wouldn't get a buck from there if I were you. When I visited their site I did not see anything that I would want one out of.
Dills-a-little has some nice does like everyone else is saying, and you could get a much better buck from them. I know how starting your herd out with less-than-desirable stock turns out (that was how I started my herd..... although it was originally just for 4-H, and wasn't supposed to be a real "show herd" like it has turned into, but that has all changed now. I was going to do just one show a year, and this year I am looking at 6, in my 4th year of goat raising haha!). Now that I have Pixie, and the promise of a wonderful buck from Jen, I can start building my herd. I hope to sell most of my other goats (except for my original 4 girls, who I just can't part with).. then I can really go with my Nubians, my dream. In a few years I want to buy a couple more does, and they will only be from MY favorite herds, or lines from my favorite herds, out of proven, top quality stock.
You will do yourself a much bigger favor by starting out with the best you can buy, always. And I had to learn that the hard way.


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## Crissa

Okay that sounds good. Maybe they'll work payments out with me! :greengrin: I bet they want alot for Lebeau though, she's probably way out of my price range for now. :sigh:


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## Muddy Creek Farm

I don't know, she is a little older. She would REALLY sky rocket your herd. I love her! It can't hurt to ask how much she is!


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## Crissa

Okay I'll ask about her. :thumb:


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## hornless

Yes, that doe the Dills are selling is awesome! They have have a great program and any goat you get from them should be great. Like Lyrae


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## goathappy

I really like all of Dill's does, so if you don't end up getting Lebeau, I think that a buck from any other those does would be a good choice


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## Crissa

Okay great! I'm still waiting on their reply. Course I really want to see what kinda kid Lyrae has if she's bred! (they're pretty sure she's bred) :greengrin:


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## Dover Farms

Okay...this is off topic, but I have to ask...how did you make your new siggy?? Did you use PhotoFiltre? If so...please tell me each step! :greengrin: It's gorgeous!


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## goathappy

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. 

Hey, does anybody know if they have photo filtre for mac? I can't install the version I got from Crissa on my mac


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## Crissa

LOL, yep I made it on PhotoFiltre. Basically I found a sky pic (clouds) from a friend and then I cut out Lyric's pic then you go up to filter and then go down to color and then go to Night effect and there you have it! :greengrin: 

Sorry goathappy I have no clue. :shrug: I'll try to find out for you though.


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## goathappy

Oh that's ok. I'll google and see if I can find a program, iPhoto on here isn't exactly the best editing program :roll:


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## Dover Farms

Hmm...neat idea! It just looks so cool! :greengrin:


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## Crissa

Thanks, it's my new logo for my website! :leap:


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## Crissa

Okay, I'm not getting Lebeau, she was poinsoned a while back when she got out and now has complications with producing milk. But I might be getting a buck kid. But I have to pick it up ASAP when she contacts me about it.

Oh and it was funny, I told her about Lyrae and she told me that she was actually considering buying her back herself! :lol:


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## Dover Farms

Oh that's too bad about Lebeau. That would explain, however, that on the website she has such a tiny udder with 12 hours of milk. A buck would be good, though! And if she was thinking about getting Lyrae back.....you know she must be something good! That is what I thought when Nicole told me if I didn't have a deposit on Cass last year and if she didn't need anymore bucks she would have kept him! :greengrin:


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## Crissa

Yeah I know, Lebeau is still a beautiful doe but I'd rather have more experience before I got a doe with the problems she has. I agree about Lyrae though, I thought man it must be a good sign that they would get her back if I hadn't beat them to the chase! :greengrin: Oh and I looked at your website earlier, and man Cass sure is a handsome guy! Love all your girls too!


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## Dover Farms

Thanks!! He sure is a lover boy! Although....he doesn't understand why I don't want to love on him after he pees on himself! :doh:


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## Crissa

:ROFL: Poor guy.


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## Dover Farms

It's actually quite funny! He sees one of the girls on the outside of the fence...gets excited and does what yucky bucks do...then looks at me like "Come pet on me Mommy! What?? I am disgusting?! That isn't desirable in the human book? The girls like it...why don't you?? :scratch: " He just gets confused and slightly upset when I don't go pet him when HE wants! :ROFL: :ROFL:


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## LiddleGoteGurl

LOL Jacque! Yeah . I bet my buck will be the same way. We have two Kiko bucks, and one is wild, but the other is a sweetheart, and yeah I hate petting him when he is nasty and he gets so confused. :lol:


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## Crissa

Well, I've decided to go ahead and get him. I'll use him until I can afford to get a better buck, I'll just sell all the babies. It'll be easier for me then trying to take all of my does to someone else. And then if I can get one of Lebeau's kids (if she has a buck) I'll already have a companion for him. I'll go ahead and give you his lines from his sire's side as well. So I need a name.

Sterling Knight
Apollo
Blue Moon
Knight Song (or Night song)
Starry Knight
Knight Ryder

Lines:
Ok here are some of his names in his pedigree...on his dad's side:
Dad: LIL MEADOWSWEET HENRY 
Granddad: D&D - DAIRY SAINT HUCKLEBERRY 
GR Granddad:WILDWOOD HUCKLEBERRY
Gr Grandmom&D - DAIRY BLUEMOON

Grandmom: LIL MEADOWSWEET CASSANDRA 
GR Granddad:CH AI STONEWALL FARM EX VULCAN *B
Gr Grandmom: SARAH' HOBBY BUBBLES

Mom: BLACK DIAMOND
Granddad: MIVIDA LIGHTENING OF TRETAP
GR Granddad: THE BLUE THUNDER TUNDRA
Gr Grandmom: THE BLUE THUNDER ALYSSA

Grandmom: LIL MEADOWSWEET JEWEL TRETAP 
GR Granddad&D SAINT HUCKLEBERRY
Gr Grandmom:LIL MEADOWSWEET ANNABELLE


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## Crissa

Man you guys must think I'm nuts or something. :roll:


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## FarmGirl18

Lol, no we don't think you are nuts, at least I don't. :wink: I totally understand, it can be a real pain to have to haul the goats somewhere to get bred. As to the names, I really like Sterling Knight, and Knight Ryder.


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## goathappy

I like Knight Ryder too


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## Dover Farms

Yeah, me too!


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## Crissa

Thanks! :greengrin:


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