# Late pregnancy.... Is something wrong?



## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I was hoping you guys could give me some advice. My goat Ida has her kid a week and a half ago, but Dotty still hasn't given birth. I know they both got pregnant at the same time and I am starting to worry that something is wrong with her. 

I keep feeling her udders, and they are soft and mushy, not hard like the other goat. I know she is pregnant because I had blood tests done. 

The last 2 days she has been acting weird. Screaming, and rolling around on the ground outside, she has also gotten a bit aggressive with the other goats. No other signs that she is going to give birth. Not sure what to do.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Can you feel babies moving around inside her?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would get her to a goat vet! Rolling around on the ground screaming is not normal or good! 
Has she been eaten normal? 
What is her temp?
She may have tried to kid and the kid got stuck and needs to be removed. :shrug: 
Is there any chance of a later breeding or due date? Hopefully there is and all is ok.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Any discharge? Has there been any discharge? If there is discharge what color and does it smell nasty? Was her udder hard at any time and then gotten soft and squishy? I'd say there is something wrong and I'd be hauling her in to the vet if it were me. Sounds like she's severely distressed.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Her udder has always been squishy, no discharge, no fever, eating a lot of food, and she's being the same pain in the butt she always is. 

A vet will have to be my last option because of finances. She could have gotten pregnant after the other goat, I'm not sure.

I don't feel any moving inside of her, but I didn't with the other goat either and I checked every day.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Hopefully she got bred later. She also may have miscarried a while back so never fully developed her udder. What worries me is


> last 2 days she has been acting weird. Screaming, and rolling around on the ground outside


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

She always acts weird and always screams... But the last 2 days she has been doing it more.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:scratch: never had a goat do anything like that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wash up and tie her up....put on a rubber glove and go in with 2 fingers to see if she is open ...especially if ...you believe see may be having issues.......you don't have to go in to far at all ...to check...you will either hit a wall or be able to go in.......if she isn't open then... she is fine... especially if... she isn't pushing........
If you didn't see her bred then... she may be later than the other Doe.... and just not ready yet...

Have you checked her ligs? Is she sunken in at the tailhead and her tail dropping?
Can you get pics of her backside with udder and a side shot?

Screaming... I am not sure about....but ...if she isn't pushing ...getting up and down ..pawing ect...she should be alright...the only other thing it might be is.... her hormones are soaring.... :wink:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Screaming like an idiot wouldn't bother me IF it was something the goat did normally (I have a couple...) But rolling around on the ground is something I've never seen any of my goats do. She very well might have a still born kid stuck in there. If it doesn't come out you will have a dead doe sooner or later. I would just check and see if she is open or not for starters.. as Pam suggested.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Ok, I just felt in with 2 fingers as deep as they could go and I didn't hit a wall.. I am not sure why. There was no discharge at all.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I will grab the photos and upload in a minute


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)




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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Just also noticed a small milky discharge coming from her... Just a very small drop of it. Could she be ready to have the kid perhaps?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Photos are confusing me. 
First she looks like she may be underweight or maybe that is because her ligs are gone and her belly has dropped. How much feed is she getting per day?
Udder is not full and looks to have a while/weeks still before kidding.
From the pooch I would almost say she is not bred since the anus has not dropped but you said she was tested. 
Was this one of the does you gave the Copper I sent you? 

Most important you say that you put 2 fingers in and did not hit a wall. If that is the case her cervix is dilated and she is going to kid... or has tried and lost the kid and needs it out hence the rolling around screaming but you say that is her normal behavior (normal for how long?)
If she is dilated something has to happen soon before she starts to close up.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

She is one of the does I gave the copper to that you mailed me. She is indeed underweight because the guy I got them from was feeding them only corn, but she has gaied 20 pounds since I got her and she has free choice alfalfa, and grain several times a day.

I did put the 2 fingers in and felt no wall. I am hoping maybe she will kid?

I haven't seen her roll on the ground today, only saw her do it once yesterday when she was laying in the sun. But she is whining every time she hears me open the door. Gave her beet pulp while I went in and she was chowing away and acting lovable to me.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Good that she got the Copper. 
Great that you have brought her weight up! 

I am hoping that kids re on their way soon. Watch for lots of discharge, pawing the ground, getting up and down a lot, if you see contractions or the water break kids should arrive real soon. Keep us updated. If no progression soon you may need to go in and see what is going on but if she has yet to break water or have contractions she may have a few hours to go.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

A few hours? She could have them today? I haven't seen her do any of those things, but my other goat didn't do any of that either. I just woke up and the baby was there.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

If her cervix is open like that that you can get 2 fingers al the way in without resistance she is fully or close to fully dilated and that means there should be kids real soon. I never have any dilate that much more than a few hours from kidding at the most. 

If she is open like that and does not have them in a few hours IMO something is wrong. Hopefully that is not the case.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is confusing for sure...I hate to say it but.... she should be seen by a vet...or someone that knows more about goats.... do you know any breeders near by? 

All what you are describing.. is very odd indeed... and it concerns me...and needs attention immediately.. :hug:


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I will keep an eye on her and also try to reach out to a local breeder. The only veterinarian who comes out here is way too expensive, but if I have to call I will.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

even a local cow breeder may be able to help if no goat breeders are around. 
Any changes?


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

No changes. No discharge, she seems quite content actually. Felt around for things and it's all the same.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

can you gently with clean or gloved hand see if you can get further in to feel if there is a kid stuck or something. is she dry in there and you need lube or is she real wet?


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I just tried feeling in again, and i really can't fit more that 2 fingers. It was a little wet inside, but I used lube earlier when I tried so maybe that's why it's wet?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well maybe she is just starting to dilate; hopefully. 
If she did go into labor a few days ago but was unable to get the kids out her cervix may be starting to close and she would be more dry then wet. 
By the looks of the photos she doesn't look like she is close to kidding or has tried to kid recently so I am not sure on the cervix being open. 
Were you able to find any local goat or cow farmers to help you check her out?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Your fingers went all the way in? Or just up to your first joint? If all the way she is open just to a joint is most likely closed. So hard to tell without being there what is actually going on.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I left a voicemail to another local goat owner, no return call yet. I was able to get my fingers all the way in, but it was tight.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

so open but not fully dilated. 
I hope that other breeder calls you back soon!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my ... :shocked: this is a scary and different thing...I feel bad that you have to deal with this...it is a very strange thing that is happening here.... I pray... that someone can come take a look at her....that knows what may be happening.....I wish ....I was there.... then I may know more about what is happening.... :hug: ray:


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## SandStoneStable Farm (Dec 8, 2010)

When was she blood tested? and was there a buck around her after her breeding date? 
Is there a chance that she was bred later than the first doe is what I'm getting at.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

SandStoneStable Farm said:


> When was she blood tested? and was there a buck around her after her breeding date?
> Is there a chance that she was bred later than the first doe is what I'm getting at.


I agree with asking those questions... she does not look close to delivery at all, even as a first freshener...her udder would be bigger and her backside would be more relaxed.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

When I do a poor boy sonogram I put does head between my legs with me facing the tail. Then I take both hands and reach under the goat, just in front of the bag. Next I lift a little and roll the goats goodie sack back and forth gently, feeling for heads. If you can feel what feels like a rock it is a head. You don't have to put much pressure on the abdomen to feel what is inside, just pick her belly up a little. 
Just looking at the picture, I hope for your sake she isn't close there doesn't look like there is any milk. 
First impression from the pics, shes not bred.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I am not sure how long the buck was around but it is possible she could have breed later. The other goat looked exactly the same as this one and she freshened just fine, and filled up with milk overnight. I am positive she is breed. The blood test confirmed it, and said that both of them were within 30 days of due date. I will keep checking her, and I will try feeling for a head in the morning. Thanks so much everyone for helping me!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:hug: Keep us updated.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

No change today. She is fine, not being as noisy, no discharge, no fever. I have no idea what's going on, and. I nobody called me back. 

I checked to feel in her stomach underneath near the udder for a hard head but couldn't feel anything, and I dont know what I'm doing, I am going to call someone else today and see if they will stop by.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Sounds very simply like she might not be pregnant...


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

But her blood tests came back as Pregnant, and her ligaments are gone? It's becoming very confusing, I guess all I can do is wait.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

blood tests can be wrong or a doe can loose the pregnancy after the test. What blood test did you have done where that said she was due in a month? I have never heard of any being able to do anything more than confirm or deny pregnancy hormones. 

The thing that has me most confused is her being dilated. There are no reasons I can think of or find in my books for a doe to have a dilated cervix unless she is kidding or aborting.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

It was the test from bio tracking.. It did t say there was 30 days left, but that they were a certain amount of time left for the pregnancy.

Even if she lost the kid, wouldn't it still need to be passed? Could she possibly not be dilated and I'm just checking wrong?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

If she did abort yes the fetus would still need to be passed and there would at the very least be evidence int he form or dark blood on her back end. If she was early pregnancy then sometimes they resorb the fetus but never farther along. 

It is possible that you are checking wrong but if you are getting two fingers all the way in up to your knuckle then that sure sounds like dilated to me. 
:hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I still recommend a vet......... :hug:


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2012)

I wouldn't get too excited just keep an eye on her but don't think much is going to happen right away. If you took a little time and felt her belly real good you should have felt kids if she is very along, heads feel a lot like a base ball. they won't necessarily be right at the bottom of her stomach, feel a little higher along her sides too, in the flank area. You won't hurt anything by picking up a little harder, just keep her feet on the ground. What I mean by rolling the goodie sack around is. while you are picking up on her let one hand move back down letting everything kind of roll over your hand, then pick that hand up and let the other hand go down and the same thing, feel as everything rolls over the hand going down. Their head will be easily felt as it bumps over your hand. Ive done this in sale barn rings, and can tell you that with a little practice it is faster and cheaper than ultra sound.


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## jona (Jan 16, 2011)

If it's a full size goat (not a Nigerian), the cervix is further away than the finger's length. In fact, to check a goat's cervix I have to go in with my entire hand all the way to the wrist.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

That's what I was thinking... She is a very large alpine. So it seemed to me that perhaps she isn't dilated.. A local goat keeper is coming tomorrow morning to check things out for me, hopefully she is doing good!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad someone is coming to see her.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

So a neighbor came by this morning. I had never met her before but she was referred to me by another neighbor. She said that Dotty is indeed pregnant, and she felt a head and kicking. She also said that her ligaments are gone, which is strange because she is still a little skinny looking. 

She said that she seems happy and healthy and there is no need for a vet, and she also said that she thinks I have been spoiling them and giving them way too much grain, even for a pregnant and milking goat and thats why she is screaming because she wants more grain. It seems true because she does stop for a few hours every time I give her more. Not sure what to do about that situation at this point. I have gone through a half a 50 pound bag of grain in a little more than a week for just the 2 does. Is that not right?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is quite a bit of grain for 2 goats. What kind of hay do you have? I'm surprised she isn't fat at all.

My full size goat gets 3 measuring cups a day of grain. When on the milkstand, I end up working her up to 4-5 measuring cups per milking (she is a heavy milker). My goats have a good second cut grass hay and I do also have a grass/alfalfa mix that they will get when they kid.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I have been feeding them hay from 3 different sources and they hate it all. They seem to want to eat the fresh straw bedding I put down more than hay. I am not sure what to do about getting them good hay since I have exhausted attempts from all 3 local providers, including TSC.


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## Tolers Boers (Jul 4, 2011)

based on the round of kiddings we just had i say she isn't due yet. my girls are all on time here within a day or two. one young paint boer went at 148 days she was the last one bred but is a firs time mom. My Nubian perfect on time at 155 days My Boer with uterine prolapse went at 156 there was a big wait between the twins but all was fine and she didn't prolapse at all however these were two huge boys. my younger Boer is at 156 days today. her lig is right her udder is right just barely a discharge.

i will add that there was no dishcarge with two of the ones that already kidded. i have stethoscopes so i knew how to find heartbeats how and tell how many each would have. I have medical degree in PT so i know a few things.

good luck.....i think she looks too early to expect but u should witness the copling and know that it was done and start a breeding chart. some does will have their own schedule as did ours. now we have a guage to go by.

wish u the bestest.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad someone came by and checked her out for you. Good that she feels kicking. :thumb: Usually when the ligs are gone they kid within 24 hours but I have had some that the lieges were gone for a week before kidding. There are lots that also loose them then get them back.

I have no clue on the feed since I raise Nigerian Dwarfs but that does seam like way too much. Maybe make a different post about amount to feed pregnant and the other lactating Alpines. Also hay is real important. I would ask the lady that came to help you where she gets her hay or check the buliten board at your local feed store. 

Can't wait to hear about the kids when they arrive!


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree going though one bag of grain a week for two does is allot. I have two pregnant does, one yearling and a three month old and I go though one fifty pound bag in over three weeks and a bale of alfalfa last me 10 days. If they are not eating hay I'll bet that is why they are thin. Ruminants need hay to have their rumen functioning correctly to get the maximum nutrition out of their food. Without hay you could feed them as much grain as they could eat and they would probably not gain any weight. Feeding too much grain can also lead to acidosis which is not good at all. If you are feeding that much grain that may be why they are crying and not eating hay because they know you are going to give them the sweet stuff. Allot of goats do not like Bermuda hay, good grass hay is good for them, and 100% of all the goats I have come in contact with like alfalfa. Sounds like they know the softie is and are exploiting him for grain. I feed all my dry does three cups of gain a day and as much alfalfa as they want. Personally I give lactating does 1-4lbs of gain a day depending on milk output and condition with free fed alfalfa.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow....this is sure strange .... :chin: she is open....ligs are gone....and they do sink in around the tailhead area and hip bone....looking thin like.... ...you will notice all of a sudden ...from looking at her from behind....she may appear not to be pregnant and the kids will drop from her sides..... if she is still up on her sides then.. the kids aren't making that journey yet.... 
Hmm....I am still a bit concerned....and hope things turn out OK..... I really feel ..a vet should intervene... if she doesn't have them soon....

As to the feed Have you tried Alfalfa hay...just give a little bit to them and gradually increase...

With the grain... that is way too much .... 

I would recommend getting a fecal on her....... with her getting that much grain and she is still quite thin...I suspect worms and/or cocci....


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks for the help with everything, including the feed. Ever since my neighbor left this morning, I have completely ignored her screaming. EVERY time she heard the hinges squeek on my door (the barn is attached to the house, and pasture is attached to that so they hear me come in and out all day), she starts going "Blarrrrrrghhh, Meeehhhhhhh!!!". Because she knows that is how to get me to give her more grain.

I went out to a feed store over the border in CT and have gotten a "second cut" bale of local hay. We will see how they do with that, but as of today, I am not giving into the free choice grain they get just from me spoiling them. I really need to get them to eat more hay, and they really don't eat a lot. I think the previous owner really screwed them up since they were on an all corn diet, and then they came to me and I feed them grain, alfalfa, beet pulp, and even a powdered donut as a treat. I guess I need to deal with the screaming and just try to show them who is boss!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would rarely eat the broccoli if I was offered al the yummies I wanted :wink: 

I remember that these girls were really in bad shape when you got them and although she looks thin there is only so much you can do to safely put the weight on. 
Hopefully they like the hay.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Alfalfa pellets can be more then a treat. They are half of my goats roughage and even more when I'm low on hay. These girls stay healthy and shiney but, not fat. I feed about 3lbs. of alfalfa pellets daily per goat. Just make sure that they are pure alfalfa some brands have grain mixed in and lower protein.


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