# Possible new buck



## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

http://grasseacres.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/orion-15.jpg
This is the buck that we are considering adding to our herd. I like him but what does every one think? I am still learning about conformation and reading pedigrees.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Can you post pictures of your does? That may help!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Do you have pictures of his dam's udder? Is his dam a good producer with healthy kiddings?


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

This is Flossie, I know her coat is terrible, it's a work in progress.








This is Callie, she is quite young in the picture, I can get a better one tonight if it's needed.








This is Ellie, she is quite young in the picture. Also let me know if you want a more current photo. Three are my three main does. The rest are only a few weeks old, I have a tread about them.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

http://grasseacres.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Masquerade_3udder-225x300.jpg
his Dam's udder. only have a side picture, I also realize I forgot to attach the picture of Ellie. I will get the added shortly.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is that a Nigerian Dwarf?


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Yes Nigerian dwarf


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Picture of Ellie.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm no expert but what I see is that both of your does are a bit weak in the chine, and so is he. I don't think his topline would be improvement enough and his dam's udder wouldn't be an improvement either based on that pic. I might be off base, that's just what I see!


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

deerbunnyfarm said:


> I'm no expert but what I see is that both of your does are a bit weak in the chine, and so is he. I don't think his topline would be improvement enough and his dam's udder wouldn't be an improvement either based on that pic. I might be off base, that's just what I see!


When you say a bit weak in chine, where is that on a goat? I have never heard that term? I am going to post my current buck and see what you guys think of him. I feel like he made an improvement on my herd with the three doelings he sired.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

That little dip behind the shoulders is the chine, when it dips down like that it's weak, it should be straight. I may have a chart saved on my phone...

Nope, nvm, no chart. I do have a picture of my lamanchas "grandma", maybe that will help. She has an exceptional topline. See how straight it is? No dips, shoulders higher than the rump... That's what you're going for.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

I cannot make the picture be the right side up for some reason. Ugh. Here are three of the kids he sired. First is Daisy, her dam is Flossie.








Next up is Rose, her dam is Flossie.








Last is Grace. Her dam is Callie.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd measure him to see if he is over height. He looks very tall.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> I'd measure him to see if he is over height. He looks very tall.


That was my main concern. What is the correct height again?


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

deerbunnyfarm said:


> That little dip behind the shoulders is the chine, when it dips down like that it's weak, it should be straight. I may have a chart saved on my phone...
> 
> Nope, nvm, no chart. I do have a picture of my lamanchas "grandma", maybe that will help. She has an exceptional topline. See how straight it is? No dips, shoulders higher than the rump... That's what you're going for.


That is VERY helpful thank you! I feel like our buck has a strong topline, our doelings seem very level as well. Is this something that I can tell on kids? like if I was to look at a buckling? I know my Adult does are not top of the line, but I really want to improve our herd. What are some other things I should look for? I will be getting better pictures tonight. and posting them.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Geeze now I want to shave everyone and get rid of the winter hair and take pictures so that we can see conformation better. Lol I am getting so into all of this.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So this is the doe I just started milking twice a day. I did just give her a .5 dose of bose and 2 grams of copper because she is looking a little ragged. What are everyone's thoughts? I am only getting 24 oz on milk a day. 12 ounces a milking. How can I help increase her production? I did only milk her once a day for three weeks. She is a ff.








This was 12 hour fill


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Hopefully the copper and selenium help, has she been checked for mites or lice? Her fur looks sparse. 

More alfalfa for production... Maybe try fenugreek? And make sure you're getting her empty with each milking. Wish I could help more.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

She has been treated for both, I used ivermectin pour on. She gets two flakes of alfalfa morning and night. As well as two cups of grain.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

We also went to look at the buck. He is with in the height requirements. He is lacking in the brisket tho. I am waiting for the breeder to send me his linear appraisal scores.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If you'll be breeding him to her, make sure he has really great udders. Her udder is very low, he needs high escutcheons and high attachments to lift it.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

I am also getting pictures of his sires dam, his dam, and his grand dam. He is supposed to be out of some really great milk lines. After seeing the does this breeder had, I have nothing special for does at all... udder wise. Her does lacked brisket, but her bucks make up for it, with the exception of this buck. I am really on the fence about him. As I know I have alot to improve on. I have another prospect buckling but he is 5 hours away and I really would rather have a proven buck. But again I am so on the fence. I will get pictures up of the other buckling. His breeder didn't send the best pictures but I am waiting for more.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)




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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So this is Orion the first buck I was talking about








His dam


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Orion's pedigree


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

Personally, I like the buck kid better of the two. What does his sire's side look like?


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Orion's appraisal 
General Appearance- Good Plus
Dairy Strength- Good Plus
Body- Good Plus
Final Score- 81


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

COgoatLover25 said:


> Personally, I like the buck kid better of the two. What does his sire's side look like?


I agree, I don't think that Orion is going to be an improvement.


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

OllieHaven, what are your goals for your herd? Have you considered shipping in a buck? While I don't really bank on appraisal scores (especially for bucks) his are far from impressive. I think if you chose Orion you would just end up keeping the current quality you have or even downgrading it in some cases. If you are looking for heavy milk production and show quality I really would recommend looking around for different options. If you don't mind me asking, what state are you in? I may know some breeders around you


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

I am in Wisconsin. We have not considered shipping in a buck. But our goals are definitely on milk production with correct conformation. I would like to get into showing am some point but for now I just really would like to focus on improving my herd. There are several buck kids that this breeder has for sale as well. But I really feel overwhelmed. When we started out, we didn't have a plan. We just knew we wanted to start breeding goats and milking. It has really jumped to way more than that very quickly.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Oh and I would like to add in my fiancé is being super picky on color, where as I am more for best conformation/milk production. So it has been very hard to find the happy middle ground.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

She did have another buckling out of this doe 
















LA 2015 VVEV 88

Sire: Kaapio Acres Rip Tide 2015 LA VEE 88
SS: CH Kaapio Acres SB Tital Wave 2011 ANDDA All American 3-5 Year Old Senior Buck
S. Grand Sire: Kaapio Acres Silver Bullet
S. Grand Dam: Kaapio Acres BT Tsunami

SD: CH Kaapio Acres Bambi Best of breed x 7, Grand Champion Senior Doe (ADGA) x 8, Reserve Champion Senior Doe (ADGA) x 3, Grand Champion Sr. Doe (NDGA) x1, Best udder x 6, 1st place x 18
D.Grand Sire: CH/MCH Kaapio Acres Hot Habanero
D.Grand Dam: GCH/PGCH Little Tot's Estate Bambusa 1*M 3xGCH, 1xRCH

Dam: MK Grasse Acres Gabriel
DS: MK Reuben MR
S. Grand Sire: Tupence Moonraker
S. Grand Dam: MK Rachel

DD: MK Ephrath OB
D. Grand Sire: Inavale Obadiah
D. Grand Dam: MK Queen Ester

And this buck








Buck's dam

















I have a picture of the kid, but I am in it and look terrible.... so I am working out cropping myself out. I will try and get his picture up shortly.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

I forgot the buck's pedigree 
Sire: Dill’s RD Big & Rich *B
G. Sire: NC Promisedland MS River Dance *B
S. Grandsire: Promisedland Mean Streak *B
S. Granddam: SGCH Promisedland Macarena 5*M 91VEEE

G. Dam: SGCH Dill’s XM Keena 4*M 92 EEEE
D.Grandsire: Dill’s LD Remember 3*M 86 +E+V
D.Granddam: Sugarcreek TW Tune’s XM +*B

Dam: GCH Dill’s FH Doo *** 1*M 87+EVV
G. Sire: Promisedland LD Full House
S. Grandsire: Twin Creeks LS Luck Of The Draw
S. Granddam: Caesar’s Villa GD Zippy

G. Dam: SG Promisedland CP Shaboom 90 VEEE
D. Grandsire: Caesar’s Villa CBS Cowpoke ++B
D. Granddam: Promisedland Be-Boppa-Lula


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

The buck's dam looks great, but frankly I don't like the buck himself or the dam. :/


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Can I ask what you don't like about the buck and doe?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't like either of their toplines, not uphill, and the doe's udder isn't anything to be excited about. It's possible that the buck will throw great udders but it's not a chance I would take on a buckling.


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I know which breeder these bucklings are coming from, I'm not really impressed with any of their doe's udders that I've seen. Have you tried Olson Acres? Looks like they have a few flashy ones available and I do like some of their does. Just depends on how much you're willing to spend too


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

If you are willing to ship in a buck kid, I'd seriously recommend Dragonfly, they have some of the best Nigerian Dwarfs IMO.


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

We don't care on price. This is what we are looking for. Polled (I cry more than the kids when we disbud, the vet laughs at me...) we really like blue eyes, would prefer tri-colored but at this point we just really want a high quality buck.


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm not sure about what they have as far as polled and such as they aren't super detailed on their sale list but here is the link, I think it would be worth your time to contact them  
http://www.olsonacres.com/Sales List/Sales List.html

Also, here's the link to Dragonfly Farm, really nice udders and body conformation plus milk production. If I were you, I'd go with a buck kid from here.http://www.dragonfly.jmkarohl.com/


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

COgoatLover25 said:


> I'm not sure about what they have as far as polled and such as they aren't super detailed on their sale list but here is the link, I think it would be worth your time to contact them
> http://www.olsonacres.com/Sales List/Sales List.html
> 
> Also, here's the link to Dragonfly Farm, really nice udders and body conformation plus milk production. If I were you, I'd go with a buck kid from here.http://www.dragonfly.jmkarohl.com/


Thank you! I will check them both out!


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

So the little black and white buckling I posted a picture of....








This is his Sire








And his sire's dam
















I also emailed both Olson Acres and Dragonfly


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Okay so another picture of Sire as a yearling








Another is sire's dam


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

If you get other options from the other two farms I'd probably pass on that one. He is the better of the three you've posted so far though. 
Once again, if you're willing to ship, contact Phoenix Rising Farm. Ashley has two buck kids available out of amazing bloodlines. http://phoenixrisingfarm.webs.com/contactus.htm


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## Olliehaven (Jan 25, 2016)

Okay thankyou I am looking them up now.


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