# Kicking Worm Butt



## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Where do I start? Worms....vet advice....worms.....vet advice....worms....well you get the picture. I am trying to be patient and trust my vet but they clearly don't seem to be helping me!

I am going to share my worm numbers below so you can see my frustration. Sorry for the long post:
*MAY(vet treated with Albon for cocci and Dectomax for strongyle)
*Chance: Cocci:150 Strongyle: 700
Nibbles: Cocci: 450 Strongyle: 150
Kitty: Cocci: 1800 Strongyle: 650
Joy: Cocci: 2800 Strongyle: O
Sugar: Cocci: 1900 Strongyle: O

*JUNE/JULY (treated with Noromectin did 3 rounds 10 days apart orally strongyle, baycox for cocci we did 2 rounds 10 days apart)
*Chance: Cocci: 600 Strongyle: 1650 plus 50 tricuris
Nibbles: Cocci: 2000 Strongyle: 300
Kitty: Cocci: 1350 Strongyle: 350
Joy: Cocci: 650 Strongyle: O
Sugar Cocci: 250 Strongyle: O

*JULY/Aug(only treated for strongyle...Ivormectin injected twice, 10 days apart, per vet)
*Chance: Cocci: 250 Strongyle: 1700
Nibbles: Cocci: 150 Strongyle: 550
Kitty: Cocci: 150 Strongyle: 150
Joy: Cocci: 100 Strongyle: O
Sugar Cocci: O Strongyle: O

*AUG/Sept(awaiting what the vet will tell us to do next....sigh)
*Chance: Cocci: 1000 Strongyle: 1600
Nibbles: Cocci: 800 Strongyle: 650
Kitty: Cocci: 2000 Strongyle: 650
Joy: Cocci: 500 Strongyle: 650
Sugar Cocci: O Strongyle: O

So when I spoke with the vet tech yesterday she told me to treat the above numbers with Corrid in water for 5 days and Ivormectin injected again for Strongyle. I think my jaw dropped when she said Ivormectin. I thought WHAT?? It isn't working!!!! So I asked about why we were using it again! She stated well you have it on hand...so we are using what you have. I thought, WHAT?? We use it because I have it on hand even though it isn't working?? Does this make sense?? Then I asked about the Corrid....why are we only treating for 5 days when the lifecycle of Cocci is 21 days?? Well we are only killing the adults. SERIOUSLY?? Then I asked why are we only killing the adults when we need the numbers to decrease?? She said well we are maintaining and not reducing. I thought WHY???? Sigh. I am not a vet...but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this stuff! I am a newby and even I can see this advice is well beyond words.

So what say you.....my dear Goat Spot friends?

Oh you might want to know my vet also told me that I should not listen to people on goat forums and that I should listen to him. Well if I did that I would have at least one dead goat by now.....as I almost lost a goat back in May because she 'didn't show any signs of worms and therefore we don't need to get a fecal'. When she really had 2800 cocci count! Yes I took in a fecal when she started going to the bathroom again (she had been constipated).

Also....Jill told me (thank you Jill!) to use Baycox and as you can see by the numbers above....it WORKED! I am considering using it again for cocci now. Doing two rounds again. Do you think that would be ok?? Or should I be worried about resistance?

So you can see my faith in my vet is well lets just say it is not registering on the scale!

Looking forward to your comments! Thanks ya'll! Love you guys!!

Tami


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hi Tami...Yes use the Baycox again...after the first dose..booster again in 10 days...Baycox works totally different then any other meds out there...its a total kill and does work better when used as a preventive...but still works better thenanything whengoats are infected...

Toltrazuril affects schizonts, micro- and macrogametes, but not the tissue cells of the host animals, as was shown in light and electron microscopic studies.

These findings suggest that toltrazuril interferes with the division of the nucleus and with the activity of the mitochondria, which is responsible for the respiratory metabolism of Coccidia.



> In the magrometes, toltrazuril damages the so-called wall-forming bodies. In all intracellular developmental stages, severe vacuolisation occurs due to inflation of the endoplasmatic reticulum. Toltrazuril (Compare to the active ingredients of Baycox 5%®) is a new treatment that may actually cure coccidiosis, instead of just suppressing it. The drug is available in Canada and Australia, but not the US. Albon and Tribrissen are used for years to control coccidia infection, but these drugs don't cure it and the animal may continue to shed spores (remain infectious to other animals). Marquis paste is made from a similar drug, ponazuril, which is a metabolite of toltrazuril


http://horseprerace.com/toltrazuril...edient-of-Baycox®)/toltrazuril-for-epm-200ml/

On the reg. wormers...did you do a 3 times 10 days apart? Did you use Ivomec injectable or Ivomec plus injectable? Only Iv. Plus and Valbazen kill liver fluke...which is often mistaken as barpole worms under the mic...

what do their lower eye lids look like?
http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.VBBwMy5dV2A
coat condition? are they pooping berries ? drinking ect..?


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

I'll answer some of this for her. Lol their eyelids vary...kinda learned not to go by that cause some are bright pink and others aren't yet they still have all the same worm problems mainly. Their coats are glossy and thick. Honestly just by looking at them they look like the healthiest goats ever. Lol they poop clumps occasionally...but I don't o by that either cause Sugar who has no worms at all has pooped clumps lately. 


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Cathy: We did Ivomec injected 10 days apart twice the last treatment for strongyles. I edited my post to note that and also the time before we did Noromectin 3 rounds 10 days apart, the Baycox we did 2 rounds 10 days apart that time as well. 

So should I do another two rounds of Baycox for the Cocci then? I am at a loss to know what will get rid of our Strongyles.

One thing I didn't note....until mid July we didn't have a scale. And found when we got one that we were underdosing until that point. So the Aug/Sept treatment was dosed correctly for their weights. The July/Aug treatment also may have been correct, I can't remember when we got the scale.

You wouldnt know they had worm problems.....I have learned to just have the fecals done because I had a goat we nearly lost in May....she didn't have any symptoms according to our vet either. :eyeroll:


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

For the strongles what we did was give much higher doses of Ivomec after keeping them completely off food for 8 hours. The first dose of Ivomec did next to nothing for them but I didn't withhold food either. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh man, well the baycox gives you one good med in your corner.....


anyone have anything that has worked on the strongyle before???

I might suggest getting the vet to give you numbers then researching meds for the given problem yourself, sounds like that is the main issue with the vet is the meds.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Samantha, did you give morning feed then wait 8 hrs or start the 8 hrs after evening feeding, and how soon did you feed after treatment?


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

chad great questions!! Also what was the dosing you did with the Ivomec? I am scared to use it again because it isn't working for my strongyles apparently according to our numbers. 

Chad our numbers are listed above...they have given us numbers just the meds don't seem to be working for the strongyles. Yes I think Baycox is the ticket to use for cocci for us! It is the strongyles I can't seem to get rid of.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Samantha.....do you know what your numbers were when you started and what they were after the upped doseage of Ivomec?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Our worst doe came back with 2400 strongyle count. The first round of Ivomec where I did not withhold food dropped her down just below 2300 so no a big difference. The second dose what I did was put them in the barn at night with their hay. In the morning I withheld all grains. I removed any extra hay and all their bedding. I left them in the barn for 8 hours with nothing but their water and minerals. I gave Ivomec 1 cc per 20lbs orally. I left them for an additional 3 hours with only water and minerals. At the three hour mark I have b complex and probios and returned their hay and their nights grain ration. When the worst does fecal was redone she was down to 250 strongyle. I did the third dose the same way and her fecal came back at zero. We are taking more fecals to a new vet in NC next week to make sure we are still good. The Ivomec here works great but only if you withhold food. 

Ivomec plus kicks butt on liver fluke. We did one dose and it brought all of them down to zero the first go round. We still continued it though for the full 3 doses. 

Our other does didn't have anywhere near the amount of strongyle and the second dose knocked all of them down to zero. What we did was take our fecals in the day before the next dose. That way we had a more accurate count as too how well it really worked.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

A knowledgeable vet is often times worse then a bad vet. At least with a bad vet you are not being fooled. We have been using the above wormers and others over the years. We just recently switched over to Cydectin Sheep drench. The dosage is nearly doubled for goats vs. the sheep dosage. Its a bit more expensive then other wormers and even more expensive then its pour on counter part but this is designed to be taken orally. No added dies or carrier agent chemicals. I wish I could say that its amazing but we have only just started using it so will be awhile before I can say that. But this was a suggestion from our vet and he is an outstanding goat vet. Even has his own goaties.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Insecure Vets don't like to admit they don't know something. Lucky is the person that has a vet willing to learn if they
don't know something! (and I have no advice about worming because those that know way more than me have already spoken!).


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I do the same as Samantha except I treat with Valbazen. My vet had told me it was best to give it to them without food because the wormer will stay in their system longer. I treat in the barn because when they drop worm/eggs there isn't anything for them to eat on the ground and then pick the worms back up.
Something else to maybe consider is copper bolusing. I had a HUGE problem with stomach worms and anemia before giving boluses. The last two years I haven't had the problems I did before. I know it is a tough decision but also culling the does that have the most problems with worms will also help your herd health


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we often worm at night when they goats go lay and rest...seems more effective...I prefere doseing ivomec Injected...much to many dismay lol...1 cc per 40# sub Q of Ivomec plus...Given orally should be 1 cc per 33#..I always get the plus since it covers liver fluke and I often shoot in the dark with out a fecal...My vet is good with fecals and when I need one done I feel confident he is on the right track...I think I this were my herd I would send fecal to a lab for a closer look at what IS going on....with all the wormers you have been using all worm should have been brought under control UNLESS its liver fluke...then none of the wormer ( if I remember right) cover liver fluke...Often Ivomec gets a bad wrap of not working when in fact your using the wrong wormer 
Lower inner lids are the best source of checking for anemia...I learn what color to expect from each goat..some run softer in color then others...so knowing where they are when worm load is under control is a good idea...score them using the famancha card and write it down so when you question, you can check...you can copy the chart on a good printer to take with you to the field.but its recommended to replace often due to fading...
One thing I found with my herd is treating that last dose...in 30 days..I dont know why but it just does it for them...I do 3 times 10 days apart then once again in 30 days after the last dose...I only need to do this every so often...then they are good to go froa long time..weather has been a huge factor as well...we have been indrought for several years and this year we got more rain and humidity then ever and we are seeing worm load..

as for Baycox..Yes, if you have cocci in theherd..use it...its absolutly the best cocci treatment 

I agree with Chelsea as well... Valbazen is my second wormer...and worming where you can easily do clean up is a good idea..

best wishes


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have yet to use valbazen so I can't speak for it yet but we are going use it for after our does kid. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Big healthy glossy goats...I would wait, yes, I would. 

These animals are being dosed over and over, when is their immune system being allowed to kick in and do it's job? 

The Baycox teaches the animal how to destroy the cocci but, it takes time for the body to mount defenses. It must be allowed to do so at some point or you will be fighting this forever. 

If you feel you must wipe out the Stroglydes I would give ONE dose of Quest and then NOTHING more for at least 2 months.

Were you able to get a Cobalt block for them?


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

When vets give a number like 1500 what is the sample size that that number exists in?

1500 means he counted 30 eggs in one gram of material.


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Yes, we got a Cobalt block and they are using it off and on. Would you not use Baycox again then Jill? What if they get worse while we are waiting? 


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Chad it is a equation they do with what they see on the slide. So small sample size on the slide.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill thank you for you're advice!! One concern I have is the rainy season is soon to be upon us. Cocci numbers aren't good. So I don't want those numbers going up. I would love to stop worming but need to get them down to healthy numbers going into winter. Does this make sense??


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Also, just to add to mine that the fact I used the Ivomec in such a high amount and not a different drug was because my does are bred. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Is cydectin not a good option for the strongyles?? I have not used that before. Wondering if I should use quest since it is such a big gun. Shouldn't I try a smaller gun like cydectin??


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Cydectin and Quest are both Moxidectin...The same drug in a different form.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Interesting ok I did not know that. Is cydectin a better form?? I have heard that it works well and heard quest is so strong. So trying to make sense of the info.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Your counts are going to go down over the winter, I'll try to explain what just happened. 

The ivermectin kills the arrested larvae and a lot of the young worms. It doesn't touch the adults. The adults abide their time. As soon as the weather cools and we start getting dew on the grass, like what happened the last couple weeks, they get a chemical signal that tells them it's time to start laying eggs. These adult worms lay thousands of eggs daily and then when the weather gets too cold they quit for the winter. 

Now, in order for your goats immune system to kick in the counts have to be high enough for the goats body to recognize a problem. Plus, the liver must be in good enough shape to mount a defense. 

Baycox also doesn't touch the adults, remember I warned you that the counts would go up for a bit. You need to see if the immune system learned to get of them though. 

Cleaning up your pasture is also a very easy thing here. Early next spring start calling dairies. Get yourself a Jersey steer calf, they're usually about $50.00. He is a dead end host for goat worms. Run him with your goats until he's too big for you then auction him and get another or train him for an oxen to work on your farm.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Quest needs dosed carefully. I use it however without any problems. I'd much rather give a cc and a half of paste than a bunch of liquid.


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok, so that makes sense, but it just scares me to wait because I've seen what high counts of cocci can do and don't want to go through that again. I'm not as concerned about the Strongyles personally. How long should we wait to do another fecal if we let them have a break from the drugs?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Give them 21 days. 

Chad reminded me that ponies also clean goat parasites up. Giving a home to an old retired or lame pony or mini horse could benefit both of you.


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Ok thanks Jill...I think we will try to wait. Lol very nervous over here  


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

In the meantime, have their drinking water tested for protozoa. Let's see if we can figure out where this is coming from.


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

How does one do that? 


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

I think they got it from where they were before...not our place.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You take clean samples to the extension service.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Are you on well water? I get mine tested at a lab quarterly, apparently PA has bacterial issues in the ground water on occasion!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi Jill: Ok I forgot about the warning....remember I am the forgetful one....and old! :wave:
Thank you for all the advice/direction....we need direction right now. Our vet still hasn't called but may call tomorrow. I will let them know we will wait but....one of my goats is up to 2000 count on cocci. I am nervous about that. I ordered baycox today just so I will have it.

Samanthas routine of worming sounds like something maybe we should try? We did give the 8 hr fasting doses...but then they were allowed to eat. So not sure if we should fast them and give them 8 more hours without food like she does. It sounded like it works well though. My goats are going to give a fit something terrible I am sure if I do that to them. lol. But I need to get rid of the strongyles.

Another question I have.....since Ivormectin and Dectomax and Quest are all Avermectins....should I be choosing another family of wormers? Like the Benzimidazoles or Colinergic Agonists....maybe not all those are what we use for this...but there are three families of wormers and I am wondering why we just keep using the same family....?

Lots of questions in my head. One thing I know and take serious though is that people here know how to help goats. My confidence isn't high in my vet at this moment.


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Yes we are on a well. Just had it tested earlier this year and it came back fine I think. I'm sure my mom will comment on this later.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Ours is spring water. It's tested yearly for everything including mineral content and bi-monthly for organisms. We have trouble with Clostridiums here.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill wanted you to know our last dose was given 8/18 so it has been quite a while since they had their dose....should I still wait 21 more days??


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

That is interesting about the water Jill. We are on a well. They did test it before we moved here...that is law. It was for arsenic and Nitrates. So should I send a sample somewhere else? I doubt our extension service would test it. Where do you test your water Jill? They have cut back so much I don't think anyone really helps anyone at the extension service they have you call some guy who is working for several counties. It is crazy! So I'd have to find a place to test our water at.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Tami, I'm beginning to wonder...

There's another parasite called a Trichostrogylus. It's egg is almost identical to Stronyloids except for size. 
The only thing I've found to get rid of the effectively is Moxidectin. Moxidectin does work differently from Ivomectin. You must not worm for 28 days after using it!!! Your other 2 choices in wormer are Valbazen or Levimisole. Levimisole is it, the end of the chemical wormers we have available.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Osu? Ours is tested by the county on schedule.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Ours is coliform bacteria........ewwww!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I think the 2000 cocci count would scare me. :-( I can't give any recommendation on treating that because we *knock on wood* have not had an issue yet. The reason I needed to get the strongyle and liver flukes down was because the does we got were in bad condition. If they were in good condition I would have liked to do a watch and wait kind of deal so I could figure out what each does norm was. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If you treat just the one who is high, not the others...


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Well Tami, you're in good hands here
Good luck with getting rid of your worms


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

Chance had the Trich---whatever worms a couple times ago when we wormed...it was a very small amount though...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, they don't lay many eggs compared to other parasites. Well, back to the drawing board


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## TheGoatWhisperer (Jan 18, 2014)

They must not have showed up this time though cause they didn't list that as one of the things they found..


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I am going out to feed....will be back to read all the other comments! Jill I think you should be a vet! Your thinking could be right on track with that worm! The people who do the fecals at my vet office are vet techs. Maybe I need to send a sample elsewhere? Like OSU? Take my animal with the most strongyle and see if they say that is what it is?? Moxidectin...what is the name of that wormer, brand name?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That is Cydectin or Quest. 

Doesn't that Levimisole sound like a Harry Potter word. Magically disappear parasites.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Goathiker..you are a wonder!! love reading your posts lol..


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I agree Cathy! Ok so Jill where in Oregon is a good place to send fecal samples if I am getting a second opinion on a fecal? I don't know if I should treat with Quest without someone telling me I have those worms?? Or should I just go off the fecal our vet tech did?


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I really don't have any suggestions beyond what you have been given, good advice given here.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

OSU can do them and WADDL as well. 

Moxidectin kills stomach and gut worms. Ivermectin kills only stomach worms.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

That worm you mentioned above that looks like Strongyle under a microscope...does it cause a cough? I have two goats that seem to be coughing off and on. Could be dust or something else but thought I'd ask at least if you knew. 

Ok I am going to look into sending a sample to one of them of one of my highest fecal count goats and if they find something I will assume all have it.....at this point.

Great advice given Jill! Thank you once again my friend!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks Leslie!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Almost all types of worms travel through the lungs. Have I ever showed you these? Click the arrow to see the lifecycle.

http://www.goatbiology.com/animations/parasites.html


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

By the way, love the name of this thread!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill thanks for sharing that link again, yes that is neat!! I looked at the Strongyle one and it shows the goat coughing.....so I think I may have the cause of one of my goats coughing! The other one supposedly had no worms...they ran her test twice. She is coughing a bit too. 

Chad....thanks! I was trying to figure out what to call this post! lol!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Remember though, the goat coughs up the larvae stage and swallows it. She may not have any egg laying adults, she could however, have a new infection starting. 

Now, tell me what is different between the heavily infested goat and the one who kicked them. Age, history, eating habits, etc.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

So the goat I am talking about that has the cough and the strongyles.....is Chance which is Meg's baby! lol The laying on his back goat....

The other one who kicked the worms is the twin of the baby we just nearly lost to cocci in May. She is worm free.....completely. However she does have a cough. She will be 6 mo this month. Megans goat Chance is 1.5 yr old.

The weird thing is that we feed them all the same except the boys get less now of the grain and no peas. They get alfalfa pellets and bl oil sunflwer seed with just a small amt of grain. 

The baby girl....she gets grain and alfalfa pellets and peas and bl oil sunflwer seeds. 

They all get kelp free choice and also kelp once a day on their food as well as free choice minerals and minerals on their food once a day. 

Fresh water every day.

Each eat out of their own bowls

One thing I wondered about with strongyle since they apparently enter the goat through their feet....ewwwe ick....would that be a problem with our barn floor being mostly sand? We don't get all the pellets up because our crazy barn manure fork doesn't pick them all up. Drives me crazy! Someone could make some serious money if they would make a manure fork for people with goats!! I can't believe anyone has not done that yet! We have a fine tined fork but still we have poo going through it. We have a sand floor in the barn and so it is wonderful for a fork but not if it doesn't pick it up! 

Will chat more tomorrow!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Ah something about vets, when they say Strongyles they mean any worm of the Round Worm family. ie: Barber Pole, Brown Stomach Worm, Thread Worm, etc. Not specifically Strongyloids (Thread Worm)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

buck naked...we have sandy ground here too...we use a leaf rake and rake in kind of a forward side stroke of sorts, with a light hand so not to rake too much dirt up...we get a ton of berries cleaned up...I should say I rake and the kids pick up lol...for the bedding we use a pitch fork of course : )


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Cathy that is good to know! I will try that. I love the sand as it is easy clean up usually. But just want to get all those poops up! =) 

Jill that is good to know. I always wondered what they meant by strongyles. I will ask again today but don't normally get a very good answer from them as to the specific worm we are dealing with. I am still tempted to send a sample to the university and have them look at it. Might be interesting to see what they say.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would definitely send it to the university. Any time fecals go to my state lab, I get very specific worms and numbers found. Much more informative than the local vet.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Karen I am going to do that! Can't be much more than what I spend at my vet for a fecal. Maybe it will be cheaper! lol. That is good to know about your experience with fecals at your univ. I will be happy to have more definitive answers.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree, I would send them off...


> I will ask again today but don't normally get a very good answer from them


Really, this just urks me.lol..being treated like we are on a need to know bases, follow instruction with out explaintion because they have a degree!! Vets should answer questions no matter how many times you ask or need more clarity...you pay them for a service and should understand everything thats going on with your herd...! If they cant take a few extra minutes to explain clearly then you need to find one who will..I guess Im spoiled...If my vet gives medication to my goats..I want to know what it is..what it does and what to expect from it...my poor vet should charge me double time lol, Hes also very good to answer unrealted questions, Took my dog to be spade and talked about long acting medication use in Goats LOL. I can also call and talk things over with him....We need to understand and learn! and we cant without clear answers...

Best wishes


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Big healthy glossy goats...I would wait, yes, I would.
> 
> These animals are being dosed over and over, when is their immune system being allowed to kick in and do it's job?
> 
> ...


If you read the Quest (moxidectin) info. paper in the box, it's got a residual action that lasts up to 84 days in horses. It takes care of encysted, small strongeles, too, which would make it good to use before spring to get the encysted, hibernating worms in goats before they emerge.
I just started using Quest wormer on my goats. Use it on my horses, but hadn't with goats. I'm impressed- both fecals showed zero strongyles. My herd had developed immunity to ivermectin, though I hadn't been withholding food or injecting it. It might be worth trying in this manner again, as I read about doing it that way on a very, very good article on all this worm crap many of us have been dealing with. Now today is Day 5 of a Corid treatment on a doeling with cocci. Waiting to see if it did the trick- cannot seem to catch her pooping at the right time.
__________________


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Cathy I completely agree!! You are so very lucky to have a vet like that! I would love to learn more about goats....learn how to do fecals etc. But this vet isn't the kind who will teach me I don't think. He does let kids go down and volunteer at his clinic and learn stuff though. He gives vet students priority though I think. So....it is ok. I am having to learn alot so that I can try to keep my animals healthy. If I didn't have Goat Spot not sure how healthy our animals would be.

Erin: You probably already know this about Corrid. I was told by my vet will only kill off the adult cocci....won't really change the numbers a whole lot as I understand. I am not sure how high your cocci numbers are but they were trying to tell me to use corrid for 5 days and because I have learned stuff here I asked them why we would only treat for 5 days since the lifecycle is 21. They said because we were only killing the adults. Ugh wanted to scream! I have numbers that are high so thought what on earth are they doing? lol. So I am waiting like Jill said to do...but then if numbers don't come down I will be putting them back on Baycox. Last time they were on Baycox the cocci was nearly gone. It was amazing med!

That is good to know Erin about your experience with Quest! I am going to send a sample or two off to the univ to see what they say about my worms and go from there. Sounds like Quest kills off the worms/parasites and that is what we want.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill I talked with the vet today.....she is in agreement with waiting the 20 days for rechecking cocci. She said if we treat the Strongyles with quest we would treat twice, 10 days apart. I thought....ummm nope we wouldn't....Jill said not to do that.  So...then I told her I wondered when they say 'strongyles' are you using that as a broad term or type of worm? She said no we are just using that as a broad term as it is a worm in the round worm family. If you wanted to know the type of worm you are dealing with we would have to send out to the lab for that. I thought....what am I paying them for?? If they aren't able to tell me the exact worm we are dealing with other than cocci....this is strange to me. Maybe all vets do this??

So the plan is to:
1. wait the 20 days and recheck fecals for cocci
2. in the meantime I will send fecal of my worst fecal number goat to the univ lab. and also try some natural ways of helping them get rid of worms as an experiment. =)
3. then we will treat for whatever comes back from the lab and treat cocci accordingly.


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