# Nubian Does: Which is better?



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

What doe do you think is better? I've asked for udder pictures. I know the pictures aren't the best for critiques, but general opinions?

I'm still milking Daisy, getting about 4-5c once a day. Both her and her kid are reserved. (basically, I want her gone as soon as possible, but I need her for milking - which is why I'm looking at these Nubians)

I've always wanted a registered Nubian doe, and I think the prices on these two girls are pretty good.

BUT, all my goats are horned. Would it be a bad idea to bring in a dehorned doe? Both Nubians look bigger then any of my younger does.

Also, would I have to milk twice a day since neither would come with kids?

What doe do you like better, and why? Would you consider one of these girls if you had a 'all horns' herd?
I could always get one for the summer then sell again...

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-livestock/ow...oe/1170515171?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-livestock/owen-sound/purebred-nubian-doe/1170519023


----------



## TeyluFarm (Feb 24, 2016)

It could be just me but the wording on the ads bothers me. Still producing "some" milk doesn't sound like a great milker. Also weaning at eight weeks seems odd. That said, I kinda like the second one. No specification of only producing some milk, you can somewhat see the udder, and she looks healthy


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I like the black one better, she has a longer body. But I must say, I am partial to black Nubians  
The brown one is deeper though and has stronger legs. Her rear legs are posts, I can't stand that, and her rump is steep.
The black one has spindly legs, but I think she's thin anyway so getting some weight on her should help. And her pasterns are too long and she lacks depth.
The brown one has a better brisket 
I think conformation wise the brown one is better. 

Are they already being milked twice a day? Or once? I think if they are being milked twice a day you'd have to partially dry them up while going to the once a day schedule so their udders aren't too tight and uncomfortable.

I personally wouldn't add a non horned goat in with horned, but sometimes it works out fine. Another thing you could do is try it and see and the sell her if it doesn't work out.


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Hmm. 
I like the brown doe better. She has more substance. Wider, stronger brisket, and legs.

I agree that it sounds like they aren't heavy producers. Not sure how much milk you need and if they are milking at all now or feeding appropriately for milk production.

If she's used to twice a day you could wean her to once a day but if she's not a good milker she may just dry up.

Maybe ask them what their current milking practices are and weight of milk produced. Maybe she is milking without removing the kid(s)?

Looking at pedigrees would help.

I'd worry bringing in a hornless doe because she's already going to be the outsider and picked on.

Goats cannot have horns at shows in my state, not sure the rules where you are if that's something you want to do


----------



## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

It sounds to me like the owner may not milk the goats-he/she may just have the doe raise the kids, and then wean and dry the doe up.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

So he just has a kid on each, doesn't milk them. He says they're giving roughly a liter a day. That's what I'm getting from my doe already, so no better there.
He also doesn't think he can get good udder pictures with his phone...

Will ask for links to their pedigrees.


----------



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

The only way I would consider bringing a hornless goat into a herd of horned ones, is if I bought both together, so at least they had a buddy. Even then, I probably would not do it.

I had a single horned goat in with my 3 hornless ones for a while, and she sure did use those horns! Luckily she was only one against 3, so it got spread around a lot, and she was smaller than the others, but every one of them would run when they saw her coming for them. I think it would probably just be way too stressful for a single hornless goat among a herd of horned, and you may end up paying for the stress in decreased production, parasite problems, etc.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

lilaalil said:


> The only way I would consider bringing a hornless goat into a herd of horned ones, is if I bought both together, so at least they had a buddy. Even then, I probably would not do it.
> 
> I had a single horned goat in with my 3 hornless ones for a while, and she sure did use those horns! Luckily she was only one against 3, so it got spread around a lot, and she was smaller than the others, but every one of them would run when they saw her coming for them. I think it would probably just be way to stressful for a single hornless goat among a herd of horned, and you may end up paying for the stress in decreased production, parasite problems, etc.


Was that Ashley or Cedes? lol

My polled does are being beat up a bit by my horned ones but its not that bad (yet). My polled girls are older so they don't feel the need to express themselves so much.


----------



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Dayna said:


> Was that Ashley or Cedes? lol
> 
> My polled does are being beat up a bit by my horned ones but its not that bad (yet). My polled girls are older so they don't feel the need to express themselves so much.


That was Ashley. Cedes has no horns, but man is she a tough old goat! She even bit my cat, when she made the mistake of running by on the top of the fence. I think she could have taken on Ashley, no problem, but they were in separate pens. Her pasture-mate, Lanka, lived in terror of Cedes. Withing days of Cedes leaving, Lanka's production, which had dropped during Cede's stay here, went right back up!

Have your polled girls made friends with the horns ones, or do they kind of keep to themselves? I think probably if they have a buddy it's not as bad. I always feel so bad for a lone outcast.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

lilaalil said:


> That was Ashley. Cedes has no horns, but man is she a tough old goat! She even bit my cat, when she made the mistake of running by on the top of the fence. I think she could have taken on Ashley, no problem, but they were in separate pens. Her pasture-mate, Lanka, lived in terror of Cedes. Withing days of Cedes leaving, Lanka's production, which had dropped during Cede's stay here, went right back up!
> 
> Have your polled girls made friends with the horns ones, or do they kind of keep to themselves? I think probably if they have a buddy it's not as bad. I always feel so bad for a lone outcast.


Well they remembered their friends pretty well. Nacho, while horned, is friends with Cloud the younger one. Poor Bonnie is kind of the outcast at this point. she's old, in pain, arthritic, and polled. Even the smaller goats are picking on her. I have to figure out what to do for her.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Black doe's pedigree: http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree...rprefix=N&_regnumber=132948&_regnumbersuffix=

Brown doe's pedigree: http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree...rprefix=N&_regnumber=128750&_regnumbersuffix=


----------



## epayne (Jul 22, 2015)

Personally, from what I see in the pictures, I like the brown doe better (And I'm assuming she is the adult in the picture). While I can't see much of her overall from that pictures, she has a better breed characteristic with her longer ears, she appears to be broader in the chest and it looks like she has a longer neck. She also looks like she has more power and substance to her compared to the black doe. I don't like the rump on her kid at all but that could come from the buck and not her so its hard to tell if hers is similar. I'm also a little more familiar with some of her bloodlines and really like Lakeshore's and Kastdemur's goats. That being said, I don't like the wording of "producing some milk" used in the brown does ad since it implies she's not producing a lot. But if she has an older kid on her still, the kid could be drinking most of the milk. She also could not be being fed enough to produce to her potential or he could have milked her not long after her kid drank so she didn't have a lot of milk left. If you're wanting her for milk, I would recommend milking her twice a day to keep her production up enough for your needs. 
But bringing her into an all horned herd could be very hard, depending on the personalities of the goats you have. My Nubians were always very docile and easily pushed around by other breeds so that could be a problem if she doesn't have horns as. Nubians are definitely not the fighters of the goat world lol. But I did have some of my disbudded Nubians with my moms horned Boers and they did ok. But they also had a group similar minded and temperamented Nubians that they could stay with away from the Boers. So I would say it would largely depend on your goats. Maybe if you have some easy going does you can introduce them to her first so they can form a friendship and she isn't alone against a large herd of horned goats.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Brown doe's grandsire on sire's side (Summer Heat):http://www.nubians.ca/referencesires.htm
Granddam on sire's side (Minuet): http://www.sugarfield.ca/images/animals/Nubians/Minuet07.JPG

I can't find a whole lot about the Elishka goats listed, but the herd name seems to be a pretty good with what I have seen so far.

For the black doe, Garden Gate is a well-ish known name in Canada. Shar-Lynn is a real good one as well.
This is her g.g.sire on dam's side (Salutation): http://www.goatsbc.com/images/salute2.jpg. 
Garden Gate's website is: http://www.goatsbc.com

http://www.turtlewoodfarm.com/ If you go to the Nubians pages, they are the Shar-Lynn goats.

And searching "Dagron Nubians" didn't bring up their website or anything, but the herd name appears is Kastdemur's herd, and a doeling from them was in the 2014 East Nationals and won reserve junior champion.

Sigh


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I can't help you on the does since I say the black one because she's pretty lol and young, but with the horns it totally depends on your goats. I run both horned and not horned, for years my queen had no horns, she was meaner then any horned goat could ever think of being. After I lost her my queen now has horns but also the low man is a horned goat as well. I would have to say my herd is 50/50 on the horns to no horns and they really can be nasty. I've bought a few that were sold because they were aggressive and they are not even on the top half of the pole.
BUT they have a field to graze and I have 7 8' long feeders so there is always some place for everyone to eat. I really do think that makes a difference. They have room to run if one is being nasty and they always have a place to eat


----------

