# Kid Teat Structure - Photo Needed



## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

Does anyone have a photo of a 2+2 clean teated kids teats? Preferably a photo of a kid around 5-8 weeks old. Just looking to do a comparison with a buck kid I have here.

Thank you!!!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Clean teats wont have any spurs or anything. They'll be fuctional meaning they have orfices (does anyway). As long as they are close to the same size, no spurs/clusters they are good. I have a yearling doe that is clean 2x2 and will be glad to take a pic tomorrow.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

I can show an example of not clean teats lol 

But I'll have to get it at another time. If you're interested.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

NavaBoer that would be fine too if you can do that.
Female structure can change; one day you see 1:1 clean & a few weeks later discover a third.
Or think "Oh NO those 2:2 are too close." Doeling grows and they seperate nicely.
Clusters dont change; I have only seen those once or twice only on bucklings.


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes, post away everyone !!!

I had a nubian doeling like that last year - 1:1 teats, then I double checked a few weeks later, and she suddenly had third .

I can't tell on this buck kid if its 2:2 or clusters, they look pretty close to me, the split seems to go all the way, but I'm not _really_ sure. There are no photos on the internet to compare to, just hand drawings of mature does teats, not too helpful here lol.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I was thinking the same thing today. I know adult structure, but I have a doe w/ a split (not DQ) and both function, the buck was clean 1x1. I was looking at the baby doeling (who'll be 2wks tomorrow) I'm not sure if she's 2x2 or not. They look very close together but definately not attached to each other- if that makes sense?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

My doe was close as a kid but grew apart as she got older. Now she has perfect 2x2 teats


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

These are of my bottle doeling diamond


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks NavaBoerFarm!! 
Clearwtrbeach - your doeling sounds like my buckling.
I double checked last night, and when I grab the teats at the base, they form a V shape (both sides do), I think this is what is throwing me off.
If I get help to get a photo, I will post them. They are also hard to see because they are hairy lol.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Navaboer, how old is the goat in the pic? It looks like they are both attached at the base, is that correct? If any one has some on younger kids and are sure on what to call them -2x2 split etc. the extra photos would be great.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

nancy d said:


> NavaBoer that would be fine too if you can do that.
> Female structure can change; one day you see 1:1 clean & a few weeks later discover a third.
> Or think "Oh NO those 2:2 are too close." Doeling grows and they seperate nicely.
> Clusters dont change; I have only seen those once or twice only on bucklings.


We check them several times, they do seem to change. Of course if they are truely a fish teat, that isn't just going to go away. If they are 1x1 they aren't going to grow another one, but the distance between them does seem to change. We started trying to write down exactly what we saw when they are newborns, so we could check them every month or so to see wht they looked like. I have a doe this year that was 2x2 and really really close, like full split, but no separation so no skin showing between the two teats. I swear she was a bad split when she was born and my husband thought he remembered her having 3 on one side. We marked her as a wether doe to sell as a 4h project, when we were checking her at 7 weeks of age, she is 2x2 and it really doesn't look that bad, still kind of close. I would have asked more for her as a breeding doe has I known that.

Need to see belly skin in between the teats and the teats should be lined up straight from front to back and not lined up side to side. If they are close togeher you increase your chances of the buck throwing more split teats. Still can throw split teats even it he was well separated. It is frustrating.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Here is my does teats. She is 2x2... no spurs of anything. She a year old.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Dani-1995 said:


> Here is my does teats. She is 2x2... no spurs of anything. She a year old.


The front looks small because of how I'm holding her... I had my hands full haha


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

We haven't had this problem with our Saanens, however I did have to snip a Boer doeling's 3rd teat for a neighbor earlier this year...


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

mjs500doo said:


> We haven't had this problem with our Saanens, however I did have to snip a Boer doeling's 3rd teat for a neighbor earlier this year...


Why snip it? I've heard it causes problems when they are bred and in milk.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Navaboer, how old is the goat in the pic? It looks like they are both attached at the base, is that correct? If any one has some on younger kids and are sure on what to call them -2x2 split etc. the extra photos would be great.


No they are attached in the center so they are like fish teats but still acceptable imo. sorry it's a little out of focus I will get a better one today

And she is about to turn 2 months


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Dani-1995 said:


> The front looks small because of how I'm holding her... I had my hands full haha


took me a minute, to realize your thumb is in the picture and it was making it look like there was 3 teats on the far side.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Navaboer, how old is the goat in the pic? It looks like they are both attached at the base, is that correct? If any one has some on younger kids and are sure on what to call them -2x2 split etc. the extra photos would be great.


I will try to get some pictures tonight when I get back from allergy shots. GEt my husband to help hold them. Kids are 4 to 9 weeks old.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

NavaBoerFarm said:


> No they are attached in the center so they are like fish teats but still acceptable imo. sorry it's a little out of focus I will get a better one today
> 
> And she is about to turn 2 months


We would call that split teated on our farm, but it is a little more like spur or scur teated since the extra teats are so close, but not as long as the main teats. But I wouldn't call that 2x2. Either split or spur teated on both sides.

Just how we would do it. I pretty much ask for detailed discriptions any more, because I don't want to drive 10 hours to get a 2x2 clean teated doe that someone calls acceptable and it ends up being split teated. Not meant against you Navaboer, but 2x2 should have plenty of belly skin in between teh teats.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> Why snip it? I've heard it causes problems when they are bred and in milk.


We do it in cattle all the time, with no issues. Don't want three quartered goats or three functional teats. Owner preference.

I haven't heard of anyone having issues with snipped teats. Only thing you need to be sure which teat is the dominant teat. The "normal" one.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Hmm that's interesting. I've heard if there is an orifice don't snip it because.it would be a hole that leaks milk when they kid. I've never seen it, just heard about it.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:


> We would call that split teated on our farm, but it is a little more like spur or scur teated since the extra teats are so close, but not as long as the main teats. But I wouldn't call that 2x2. Either split or spur teated on both sides.
> 
> Just how we would do it. I pretty much ask for detailed discriptions any more, because I don't want to drive 10 hours to get a 2x2 clean teated doe that someone calls acceptable and it ends up being split teated. Not meant against you Navaboer, but 2x2 should have plenty of belly skin in between teh teats.


Oh I see well thanks for the advise. So i should just call it an acceptable split teat? I'm going off the abga teat chart http://www.abga.org/teat-structure.php
I think when older it will be like number 4??? What do you think? I appreciate your honesty


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

I have a problem with snipping teats. The nubian doe that had a doeling with three teats came from a breeder that snips teats, and they failed to tell me about it - how do you breed it out(by avoiding it in your lines) if you don't know?? I would never do this - and I lost a lot of sales on that doeling because I was honest about it and did not snip it off when I found it.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

NavaBoerFarm said:


> Oh I see well thanks for the advise. So i should just call it an acceptable split teat? I'm going off the abga teat chart http://www.abga.org/teat-structure.php
> I think when older it will be like number 4??? What do you think? I appreciate your honesty


Hard to tell, but looks like 8 to me.


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

I think my buckling is an 8 too. Because when I pinch the teats they form a V, it kind of looks like they go down to the belly though.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> Hmm that's interesting. I've heard if there is an orifice don't snip it because.it would be a hole that leaks milk when they kid. I've never seen it, just heard about it.


Not true. Once it is snipped, the skin heals up over the space, creating a nice flush smooth area (sometime a small scarred bump). I have not had any issues with leakage. Actually this also happens if they scratch their udder or teats up as young kids too. One of the 4h agents in my area has a rescue doe that came to her pregnant. One she kidded, she couldn't get milk out at all, here she must've gotten tangled in barbed wire as a young kid. Scars around her legs and her udder. It ended up slicing a chunk of teat off that healed over flat. Milk can't escape, but the doe is doing well. The half is drying up now.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

shibby7 said:


> I have a problem with snipping teats. The nubian doe that had a doeling with three teats came from a breeder that snips teats, and they failed to tell me about it - how do you breed it out(by avoiding it in your lines) if you don't know?? I would never do this - and I lost a lot of sales on that doeling because I was honest about it and did not snip it off when I found it.


That was a failure on the end of the breeder. Always be honest in your sales. I keep records on any little thing on each goat in my herd, as well as depict time of birth, and even diagrams of the newborn udder, teeth number, and any odd color markings. Also do hoof prints in their "diaries" when they are a week old to aid in hoof trimming later on in life. However you are exactly right, how are you supposed to breed it out if you don't know? Some people aren't ever 100% with their advertising.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mjs500doo said:


> We haven't had this problem with our Saanens, however I did have to snip a Boer doeling's 3rd teat for a neighbor earlier this year...


I do not recommend snipping teats, other than being dishonest, it can effect the doe, there is risk on what can happen. 
When a doe first freshens, the area snipped, with an orifice may leak,with no sphincter muscle it cannot stop milk.flow. if no orifice is present, can create a pocket of milk, with no where to go, it will bulged out and may block milk flow of the main orifice, that the kids nurse on. Snipping a spur can be a bad outcome as well.

Please don't do it, it isn't fair to the Doe, which could make her useless or anyone else.If you snipped with no issues, you are very lucky.


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## shibby7 (Feb 20, 2012)

They were honest when I told them she had a three teated doe. I guess it was a don't ask don't tell sort of thing lol.

But if a goat with a snipped teat gets sold a few times, somewhere that info is going to get lost, no matter how good a record keeper the original breeder was. Better to have it so everyone knows its there IMO.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

shibby7 said:


> They were honest when I told them she had a three teated doe. I guess it was a don't ask don't tell sort of thing lol.
> 
> But if a goat with a snipped teat gets sold a few times, somewhere that info is going to get lost, no matter how good a record keeper the original breeder was. Better to have it so everyone knows its there IMO.


Oh! Maybe I read you wrong. Lol very true.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Didnt want to hijack so I started another thread & posted some pics of teat structure.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

NavaBoerFarm said:


> Oh I see well thanks for the advise. So i should just call it an acceptable split teat? I'm going off the abga teat chart http://www.abga.org/teat-structure.php
> I think when older it will be like number 4??? What do you think? I appreciate your honesty


Well, are those little side teats attached almost all the way or are the seperated down to the base? Could be like 8 if they are separated down to the base, but If they are joined I am not sure, I am not an expert. I am thinking like 4 or 12, I guess it depends if those side teats have milk orifices. Notice on the chart how the dotted line down the middle represents a milk orifice. 
I have a doe that is like # 13 and really close to #6. . We didn't know she had two orfices until she bagged the first time. She can grow some fast growing kids but I think out of 7 kids she has had so far all but one has been split teated, we use her kids for wethers, including the does. Hopefully yours doesn't through as many split teats.

I am thinking like #4, like you are thinking after she freshens the first time.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Ok so in dairy goats and spur teat. I know of someone who found out a buck had a spur teat, previous owner didn't see it nor did the breeder (well known farm). Since finding it she has decided to place the boy as a pet/home milking set up. So far non of his kids have shown it. What is the likely hood any of his grand kids (minus the ones already born that don't have it) be?


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