# stomach cramps



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

Curley isn't feeling well today. He was fine in the morning, but now he prefers to be lying down. He isn't bloated since he isn't near the size he can get after a good meal. But he is pushing like he is constipated or having stomach cramps. 

He ate a couple tums but doesn't like baking soda. I gave him a piece of burnt toast. 
And two tablespoons of olive oil.

I have also been massaging him and thumping his belly. He has been able to pass gas and a few droppings, but they are sparse when they come rather than the batches that he normally drops. And he can burp up some cud to chew. He still wants to eat leaves. He hasn't had a go at the apples yet today.

Any ideas? I'll be watching him closely and continue massaging him from time to time.


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

I searched the yard and found the remains of an old chicken egg that got laid outside rather than in the coop where it belonged. I don't know how old it is. But if it was rotten, that might cause stomach cramps. The time frame for food poisoning is about right. He's not vomiting and doesn't have diarrhea. If its food poisoning, Pepto Bismol wouldn't be the right thing to do.

Back to watching.


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Watch him carefully for urinary blockage. Make sure he is passing urine. If you run your hand over the pizzle you can often feel if it's wet there if you check frequently.

If it's just an intestinal blockage, I'd try a 1/4 cup of salad oil or vegetable oil in a drench or on a little grain. Mineral oil can work but it's easy to aspirate, so I usually mix enough pepto in it to give it a flavor so they swallow it better.

Massage is a good idea.


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

He stood up to greet me this morning, but didn't come to me like he usually does.

He has a good appetite, but still isn't 100%. I have to be away a bit so I have put him on concrete covered with straw to I can tell what's passing. No sign of cramps this morning yet.

He had the shivers, but he has stopped when I got him into the sun and fed him.


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

HAve you taken his temp? Or listened to his rumen? Put your ear on his left side, your left also as you are facing forward the same direction as he is. You should be able to hear it gurgle at least a couple of times a minute.


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

I lost Curley to the urinary blockage. By the time we had it figured out I had to put him out of his misery. It was tough. He was my buddy.

The tract runs between the skin and the membrane that holds everything else so that it can get pinched if he over ate. 

Since all three were neutered before I got them at 10 weeks, the others are probably at risk too. 

When I had a kidney stone that wouldn't move for three months I took an engineering solution. I theorized that if I let my bladder fill till I was bursting to possibly stretch the tubing from the down side, and pulsated the fluid on the up side by compressing the kidneys, that the stone might move. It did.

After seeing where the blockage was in Curley, I have picked up some large syringes. If any of the others show symptoms, I will try to fill the tube from the down side to expand it and let the blockage pass. Sort of like a back flush.


----------



## Shelly Borg (Nov 2, 2009)

I am so sorry about your loss. Its never easy to lose a buddie.


----------



## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Bob,

first, I'm very sorry that you lost Curley that way.

Second, I need to write a note of caution: you can't flush out urinary calculy in wethers (or bucks) in the way you think it might work. Goats have a very different urinary tract than humans and you won't be able to fit a syringe to the penis without causing the goats major discomfort and pain.

Please, don't do that!!!


----------



## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

So sorry Bob.
How old was Curly? How much excercise was he getting?


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

He was 8 months old. He had plenty of room to play in the yard and lots of toys. And we hiked 5-6 miles once or twice every week.


----------



## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

What a bummer....
8 months old seems awfully young to have had such a problem. I don't really know much about it, tho. Did he seem to drink and pee a lot before this? Just out of curiosity, how hard is your water? Do you have a lot of minerals in it?


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

The water is very hard. We have an artesian well.

I'm not sure how to gauge what he drank. They all have clear running well water available, but I rarely see them drink. They eat green browse all the time. Grape, apple, box elder and chinese elm leaves. More recently they have been eating the apples and grapes. They rarely eat grass since their preference is the leaves, and they have had such an abundance. There is still green grass in their area. They have enough room that the soil isn't burdened.

They do eat the little bit of Timothy hay I put out but they don't eat the stems. 

They have a bucket of the minerals and baking soda available.

Curley always looked like he was stuffing himself and was rounder than the others, but never previously displayed any discomfort.


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm so sorry. Did you have the stones analysed? That would tell you if it's from the calcium in the water. You can put a water filter on your water source. Lots of people have had to do that. Also, be careful about things like blackberry leaves, and root vegetable leaves. I'd get your guys on Bio-Chlor ASAP, and make sure they have good water all the time. Putting multiple buckets out is a good idea as if one gets dirty they will tend not to use it. Lots of water will help flush stuff out. YOu might try apple cider vinegar or dilute gatorade to improve the taste of the water to see if that encourages them to drink more. 
Unfortunately not everyone is on board with the early castration being a contributor to stones but there is now research that shows it.


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

Our water runs continuously into a tub then it skims itself to a wading pool that the ducks use. So it stays clean and clear all the time.

Do they eventually outgrow it or are they always vulnerable?


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Unfortunately, stones are cumulative. The sludge that builds up in the bladder turns into concrete over time so older goats can be more likely to have them.

The bio-chlor helps dissolve the sludge so it passes through without harm.


----------



## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Bob, I'm so sorry about Curly. That's such a sad blow! I sincerely hope you have no more trouble of this kind again. 

Sweetgoatmama, is Bio-Chlor something you recommend for all wethers, or just for certain ones? We have pretty hard water around here, so I'm wondering if our goat might be at greater risk, especially as he's now pushing 8 years old. He's always been a good drinker and I've never noticed any problems, but I've always worried about the possibility of him developing stones. I know the best prevention, of course, is a balanced diet and lots of clean, fresh water (heated in winter). Still, if there are other tools that further reduce the possibility of stones developing, I'm happy to use them.


----------



## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Re the hard water...
Where I used to live the water was very hard. Crud built up on the shower nozzle, faucets, etc. Because of that, and just plain laziness (I didn't feel like digging a long trench for a water line to the goat pen), I rigged gutters along the roof of the goat barn and collected rain and snow runoff in a couple of barrels. These fed into a float valve on the goats' water pail. Maybe that was better for them than drinking the hard well water. So far so good.


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I recommend Bio-Chlor for any time there's any reason to think that you might have a situation where you might be concerned. It's cheap, palatable, and good insurance. 

I don't feed it here but, knock on wood, I've never had any stones here either. If I even got one case, I'd rethink my position immediately.


----------



## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

Bio_Chlor? The Arm and Hammer stuff?

http://ahdairy.com/our-products/dcad-ba ... _enhancers


----------



## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

That's the stuff. It's more palatable than Ammonium CHloride and is recommended by Marie Bulgin, DVM, at Caine Research Center in Idaho who is one of the people who has done research on calculi. 

Someone just emailed me about amm. chloride today. She couldn't get her goat to eat it so she baked it in non-dairy muffins. She contacted the manufacturer to make sure it wouldn't break down with heat and they said go for it.


----------

