# Drying up precocious udder



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Our pet doe May has a precocious udder, 1 side is very full/tight (the other side is not). There are no lumps and her temperature is normal. Since we want her to dry up, would it be a problem to not milk the full side? 
We took away her alfalfa/beet pulp so she is on pasture/browse only right now, except for a bit of sweet feed that we use to get her on the stand to check her udder.

I know that giving sage may help dry them up, any other tips?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Keep milking it out, or she will be lopsided. Milk enough to keep the udder even- maybe once a day- for a while, then 
once every other day. Does the other side have milk? Have you checked for mastitis on both sides? Try and milk the other side, some.
That will help keep the udder even and teats the same size, too.

I had a young almost yearling doe (Alpine) with a precocious udder last year- she got milked daily and gave 6# a day. It was almost impossible to get her dried off. 
When she finally kidded this year- she hasn't had half as much milk! (or a kid in the pen is sneaking sips!). I wish all my does were precocious and 
then I wouldn't have to deal with all the kids! (I like kids, but they are a pain, at times!)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

PU can be hard to dry up. Is she only a pet? Not to be bred? Sage does help to dry up as does cutting everything but hay, all but a little alfalfa and minerals. 
As for milking..if shes a pet and your not worried about lop sided udder then as long as it doesn't get tight..leave it. But as mentioned uobove, do check both sides to be sure milk is clean. Sometimes PU turn mastitis especially in older does. I have a friend whose doe never dried up. She was forced to milk her once a day.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Peppermint (the real stuff) can help dry up does. (candy canes, peppermint candies, etc.) also peppermint udder creme
helps, too. (don't give a lot of candy, it will upset their rumens). A couple pieces, along with everything else you are 
doing to dry her off. Good luck!


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## LittleGreenBarn (Mar 26, 2017)

I had a really hard time with a precocious udder. Ended up turning into full blown mastitis on one side. Had to do two rounds of antibiotics. It happened in the side that was larger, more lopsided. I was told it was best not milk it out, so I didnt. Now that side is blown out. I did end up breeding her and so far it seems to have helped and hopefully her udder will go down once she weans off her kid. 

Good luck! I agree with peppermint, sage is good too in helping to decrease the milk production. A nice peppermint salve massaged into her udder can help too. Once that side seems to be more under control, perhaps she will go down in time with less frequent milkings and then stopping all together. Wishing her the best! 



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## LittleGreenBarn (Mar 26, 2017)

I meant to add, yes you need to keep milking her until it is more under control, speaking from experience. 

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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thanks guys! 
When you say check for mastitis do you mean just feel for lumps and check her temperature, or do a mastitis test like the CMT test? We have never done one of those before.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

21goaties said:


> Thanks guys!
> When you say check for mastitis do you mean just feel for lumps and check her temperature, or do a mastitis test like the CMT test? We have never done one of those before.


Anybody?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Never hurts to do the mastitis test.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Well great. We had been checking her temp every couple days and checking her udder for lumps, but not milking since it was full but not tight. It's lopsided. She's been getting 2 garlic cloves a day. Thankfully the sores are still gone. 
Well I didn't check her temp for several days and she was acting normal until this afternoon when I noticed she was behind the herd and moving a bit slow. I went and looked at her and noticed her udder was huge and she couldn't walk without bumping the fuller side. So then this evening we got her on the stand to check her, and her temp was 105.2 F. It is very hot and sunny and she had been walking around with the herd all day, plus it was hot in the barn. We decided to milk her out and infuse her udder with Tomorrow. After over an hour of her kicking, bucking and fighting on the stand we finally had her milked out and put half a tube of Tomorrow in each side of the udder. The milk looked normal, no lumps in the udder, pus or blood.
We tried to get her to drink some electrolytes but she only took a couple sips. She did drink a bit of water, she was very stressed from the treatment though.
After it got dark and cooled down I took her temp again and it was 104.8 F. We put her back with the herd then and will check her temp again in the morning. 

If she still has a fever tomorrow we were thinking start her on Draxxin if we can get it. She got lumps from Tylan 200 so we don't want to use that and we don't want to give penicillin unless we have no choice since it is a twice a day shot and she HATES shots.
I have a question though, should the
Tomorrow infusions be done twice a day?

@toth boer goats @happybleats @ksalvagno @goathiker @SalteyLove @NigerianDwarfOwner707


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tomorrow should be done every 12 hours. I woulf definitely start antibiotics. Nuflor is a good one. Its RX. 3 cc per 100 pounds sub q. For 5 days. It does sting a little. Draxxin is good to hit the lungs but for this..I think I would choose Nuflor.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Tomorrow should be done every 12 hours. I woulf definitely start antibiotics. Nuflor is a good one. Its RX. 3 cc per 100 pounds sub q. For 5 days. It does sting a little. Draxxin is good to hit the lungs but for this..I think I would choose Nuflor.


Okay. She still has a fever today (105.3, it is hot outside) and we did another milking and infusion. We are trying to get a vet to get us antibiotics today, I guess if we can't get it today we will start her on penicillin.
I have a question about her udder though, after we milked her out we could feel a squishy mass like thing near the top of the udder on the side that was fullest. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

21goaties said:


> I have a question about her udder though, after we milked her out we could feel a squishy mass like thing near the top of the udder on the side that was fullest. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.


That could be inflamed tissue due to the infection.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we got the vet to give us a dose of 300 mg/ml Nuflor. They said it would last 3 days.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Tomorrow should be done every 12 hours.


Huh? Since when does a 30 day infusion need given every 12 hours? Granted she only gave half but, that's still good for 2 weeks if done properly. 
She will have to milk her out again and give a full dose in each side in a few days but, overdoing is just as bad, if not worse, then underdoing.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

goathiker said:


> Huh? Since when does a 30 day infusion need given every 12 hours? Granted she only gave half but, that's still good for 2 weeks if done properly.


When treating an active mastitis case, needs to be done every 12 hours. Now if they just did a preventive infusing, then yes you are right. 


21goaties said:


> Okay we got the vet to give us a dose of 300 mg/ml Nuflor. They said it would last 3 days.


For goats, they need daily nuflor. 3 cc per 100 pounds. If the vet refuses to give what you need, you will beed to follow up with OTC antibiotics.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

When she had mastitis in 2019 we did the Tomorrow twice a day along with hot Epsom salt compresses and dynamint cream. That got rid of the lump in her udder. We also did penicillin twice a day then.

This time she has a squishy mass in one side of the udder. I thought you had to milk/massage/infuse twice a day to get that gone. @goathiker can you explain why you are suggesting that we don't infuse it twice a day?
We have been doing half a tube in each side because we didn't want to run out as quickly. Is it crucial that we do an entire tube in each side? We are cleaning off the end of the tube with iodine before doing the second side.

@happybleats I'm assuming they need daily Nuflor because they process (not sure of the right word) it so fast?

Thanks guys!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

21goaties said:


> I'm assuming they need daily Nuflor because they process (not sure of the right word) it so fast?


Yes..with goats fast metabolism it doesn't stay in the system long snd leaves them vulnerable. There are a few exceptions such as Excede which has been proven to stay in the system for 4 days.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Yes..with goats fast metabolism it doesn't stay in the system long snd leaves them vulnerable. There are a few exceptions such as Excede which has been proven to stay in the system for 4 days.


Okay got it. Do you know of any studies or anything that proves it that we could use to convince the vet? We're not going to be able to get more Nuflor today.

Her temp today was 104.1 F. We are trying to decide between waiting until tomorrow and if she still has a fever then call the vet and tell them that it doesn't last 3 days and we need more doses...

Or, go ahead and start her on penicillin tonight. We gave the shot of Nuflor last night. It seems a bit risky to me to wait a day and see if the Nuflor is still working if it actually only lasts a day.

She is eating and drinking but acting a bit sluggish. We noticed today that she lost a bit of weight (that was fast....) Her FAMACHA is pink but I will do a fecal.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I will have to dig into that for info. I do have the link for Excede test..La200 test in milk...but can't think of a link off the top my head for the need for daily meds...let me dig into that and get back with you. @goathiker May have sime info as well...

If you can not get more meds..I would definitely start penicillin. Her temp is still elevated and I feel like you, would not want to risk it. If she does well with that..then stick with it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Interesting, the title says precocious udder, the first post says precocious udder. Precocious means early and without reason. 
Now we find out that the doe, not kid, doe has a history of mastitis. 
This is not a precocious udder, it is a doe with a chronic condition. If that information would have been in your original post you probably would have been directed to have her milk tested for drug sensitivity. 
Since Tomorrow didn't clear the bacteria before, I highly doubt it will do it now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree if Tomorrow isn't working, testing the milk to see what bacteria is brewing and getting a different treatment if needed.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Interesting, the title says precocious udder, the first post says precocious udder. Precocious means early and without reason.
> Now we find out that the doe, not kid, doe has a history of mastitis.
> This is not a precocious udder, it is a doe with a chronic condition. If that information would have been in your original post you probably would have been directed to have her milk tested for drug sensitivity.
> Since Tomorrow didn't clear the bacteria before, I highly doubt it will do it now.


Sorry I should have made a new thread. She is 7 and has only kidded once, 5 years ago and her kids have been weaned for years.

Her udder filled up for seemingly no reason in 2019 and then she got mastitis. I made a thread on here and followed y'all's advice: (Advice needed - May has mastitis in precocious udder). I went back and checked, we used Tomorrow then and it DID work. We did it daily then along with penicillin shots.

Now I'm wondering if we need to keep milking and infusing twice daily, when we only did it once a day last time. She stopped producing a ton of milk as of this morning. I guess it depends on if she still has a fever...

She didn't have any problems with her udder in 2020, but now she has it again. 
Testing for drug sensitivity makes sense. 

I think we should give her that mastitis vaccine when she is better. Don't know why we didn't before.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Mastitis in PU is not uncommon in older gals. You could continue to treat when she flares up or keep milking her to see if that keeps mastitis at bay. Hard to know without knowing what she is actually dealing with. I have a friend whose doe had PU, never bred. She had a few rounds of infection but most times milk was clean. She just kept her milked.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Her temp was 102.1 F this evening! 🥳
We did not give any penicillin. Trying to decide if we should go ahead and ask for more Nuflor tomorrow or wait 3 days (day after tomorrow)

I have a question about the Tomorrow. The side that does not have the mass is nearly dried up, only a very small amount of milk was in it and it is floppy and feels empty. Do we need to keep putting Tomorrow in it? 
Maybe just put an entire tube in the side with the mass?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Temp today was 100.8 F! Kinda weird...we will give probiotics. She is chewing cud, eating and drinking/peeing and pooping normally. She does look thinner though, a bit sunken in on her sides and lost a bit of weight. Not emaciated though. We gave her 1/2 cup of grain last night and will keep her on that daily. 

She absolutely loses her mind when we try to infuse the Tomorrow. Kicking wildly, even on the stand somebody has to hold her leg while the other infuses. She actually screamed today when we infused the side without the lump. Do you think it hurts? We are sticking the plastic tip all the way in. Then again, she is very sensitive and flips out when you touch her belly or udder so yeah...at least she allows milking after the initial fight. 

Good news is that the lump is getting smaller! However, blood came out of the side with the lump when we were infusing it. Could that be the lump breaking up, or maybe a busted blood vessel from all the kicking?

Anybody have an answer for me on the below?



21goaties said:


> I have a question about the Tomorrow. The side that does not have the mass is nearly dried up, only a very small amount of milk was in it and it is floppy and feels empty. Do we need to keep putting Tomorrow in it?
> Maybe just put an entire tube in the side with the mass?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..don't stick the tip all the way in. Look on goat-link.com for a diagram on how far to go in. It maybe hurting her. Blood is not good..so maybe stretching things a bit much. Or her kicking didn't help.
On the side that looks good..stop Tomorrow and wait 24 hour and retest the milk. Just to be sure its clear there. Might test the milk on both sides and if clear..stop infusing and massage that lump and keep milked out until lump is gone. Re check for mastitis anytime it looks questionable or weekly just to stay ahead of things. You can get MastoBlast and give for 10 days..its oral and goats tend to enjoy the taste. Its a homeopathic treatment. I use it anytime we have congestion or questionable milk. Never had full blown mastitis so far. Maybe we can stop the infusing for her and the mastiblast finish the job.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Ok..don't stick the tip all the way in. Look on goat-link.com for a diagram on how far to go in. It maybe hurting her. Blood is not good..so maybe stretching things a bit much. Or her kicking didn't help.
> On the side that looks good..stop Tomorrow and wait 24 hour and retest the milk. Just to be sure its clear there. Might test the milk on both sides and if clear..stop infusing and massage that lump and keep milked out until lump is gone. Re check for mastitis anytime it looks questionable or weekly just to stay ahead of things. You can get MastoBlast and give for 10 days..its oral and goats tend to enjoy the taste. Its a homeopathic treatment. I use it anytime we have congestion or questionable milk. Never had full blown mastitis so far. Maybe we can stop the infusing for her and the mastiblast finish the job.


Okay thanks! What test should we use? CMT or Dr Naylor Mastitis Indicators?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Some have questioned the results of the testing indicators..I have not used them but a friend did and liked them. I read another post on them that they used them and also sent milk to the lab to be tested and the card lined up with those results. So I guess either lol, which ever you feel comfortable with.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay we did the Dr Naylor test yesterday and the side with the lump was dark green and the side without the lump was light green. We put an entire tube of Tomorrow in the side with the lump only. The other side we just milked. Yesterday was the first day that we did the Tomorrow once a day and we will do that again today. On Tuesday (tomorrow) it will have been a week since we started infusions so we will probably stop and just massage and milk until the lump goes away completely. She has no fever right now.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Question, tonight when we milked, the milk from the side with the lump was pink. I'm assuming that means it has blood in it. Could that be from the lump breaking up? It is slowly getting smaller. When you massage it you can feel that it is made up of a bunch of tiny lumps that seem to be breaking apart.

She is basically dry now, only a small amount of milk comes out. Weird she dries up when we start milking. That didn't happen last time....who knows. Here is a pic of her udder. The lump/mass is in the side that is hanging down farther.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You can try tomorrow mastitis treatment to help clear that up. 
Continue to massage and milk out what is there.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay, we put a whole tube of Tomorrow into the side with the lump, and massaged the udder with some Dynamint cream (we found we had a tiny bit left). We are planning on this being the last dose of Tomorrow since today is 7 days since we started infusing it. Then after today just milk and massage with Dynamint.

I know Tomorrow stays in the udder and gives a slow release of medicine for a long time but since she still has the lump we should milk it out tomorrow right? 

@happybleats @ksalvagno @toth boer goats


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If it isn't a lot of milk, you might want to wait so you don't milk out the Tomorrow.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree..


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Okay yeah I thought that made sense. Only a tiny bit of milk is in there. How long should we wait before we milk it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Really she should absorb the milk but I'd wait at least a week.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update, we have not milked her and have been massaging the udder once daily with dynamint cream (we are out now though so have to get more). She is still almost dry and the lump is still there, maybe a bit smaller. It feels like a mass high up in the top of the udder. 

Good news is, she feels fine, her temp is normal, her sores are still gone and she doesn't have to deal with a huge udder. 

But I don't think we should just ignore the lump. I'm trying to decide if we should try Mastoblast or not...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Mastoblast wouldn't hurt.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Where exactly are ypu feeling a lump? Top center of back of udder is a Lymph node. Im wondering if possibly what you might be feeling?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Could also be scar tissue.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update, yesterday we did the Dr Naylor test again and it still showed definite mastitis (dark green) in the side with the lump, and sub clinical mastitis (light green) in the side without the lump. So we milked both sides (there was only a tiny bit of milk in there) and put an entire tube of Tomorrow in the side with the lump. 

The lump has gotten a bit smaller and she is still almost dry. We will keep massaging the udder daily. We have Dynamint cream and Mastoblast ordered so we should be able to start them soon.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I wonder if you shouldn't do a milk test. Sometimes a different antibiotic is needed depending on what strain she is dealing with..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you mailed out a milk sample to a lab?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Do y'all mean an antibiotic sensitivity test done on the milk? If so then no we have not. Anyone know of any labs that you can mail a milk sample to?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Try your state lab. Is there a veterinary college? Might be another place. I'm sure UC Davis or one of those would do it too.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


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