# How old is too old to breed?



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello, I've got a pygmy doe and she is 4 1/2 years old. Not sure I a going to breed her, but wondered if she is too old, if I wanted to?

Thank you!
Carol


----------



## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Had she kidded previously? If yes, were they easy births?


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

No...she has never kidded.


----------



## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

I've read if an older goat has never kidded before it's not a good idea to breed them. I had two 7 or so year old pygmies, so I was researching it because of them. I decided not to breed them, and sold them as pets so I could focus on my Nigerian Dwarves. But, 4 1/2 is a lot younger than 7... If it was my goat, I think I would size her up and see how well I think she'd be able to handle kidding. And, I guess it comes down to whether you want to breed her and run the risk of something going wrong (which is there for every breeding) or keep her as she is.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't see why you can't unless there's some rule that says if they are not bred by X age don't which I've never heard with goats. I have a 8 year old that I bred last year and no problems what so ever. I retired another doe after turning 8 and if it wasn't for her bad bag I would be tempted to go again with her.


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

41/2 isn't too old to breed. I would if she was here.


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I just bred my 11yo. Shell kid at 12. She kidded two large twin bucks this spring no problems.

At 4 or 5 as a first freshener id do it if she looks conformationally like she could. I prolly wouldn't past 6.

I'd breed to a small breed buck who throws small kids.

And be ready to assist


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

if's she's healthy, go for it!


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If she were mine, I would.


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies everyone. I posted a couple years ago when Emma was only a couple years old and one of the gals told me that if she was too fat, or really short bodied (as tall as she is long) not to breed her. I was also told not to breed her to a buck that was less than a couple years old since you won't know the true size of the buck until he's full grown. I thought Emma might be a bit too fat, but I think she is built long enough....longer than she is tall. I'm attaching a few pics of her--what do you think? Do you think she's built ok for having babies as far as length and height and do you think she's too fat & needs to lean out? Aren't Pygmy's supposed to be a little fatter? She does eat well. All my goats are pretty spoiled. They have free choice oat hay, loose minerals and baking soda and I give them each a little sweet feed every other day---but they'd like that all day every day if they could get it!! It's like "goat crack", I swear!! LOL Anyhow, as far as the buck goes, I only have one...I got him specifically for breeding and I got 4 young does at the same time I got him. He's only 6 months old. He's a little Nigerian Dwarf. I have two other Wether Nigi males and they are a lot bigger than Emma. I always thought Nigerian's were smaller than Pygmys, but my males are definitely bigger than Emma (she is my only pygmy). So, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to breed her with Maverick. What do you guys think? Aren't the males just bigger anyway, compared to females? Anyhow....I've never experienced breeding goats or kidding so I want to be sure I make the best decision. I think Emma would make a good mama but I don't want to lose her. My other does are too young yet....I'm waiting till they are a year old to breed and I thought if I was gonna let Em have babies, I better do it sooner rather than later since she is 4 1/2 now. Thanks you guys for your help! (oops...not sure why the last two pics are sideways and I don't know how to fix it! Sorry)


----------



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think you'd be fine. He isn't that much bigger than her, and typically yes bucks are a little bigger than the does... She doesn't look too fat to me. By the way you have a cutie there


----------



## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

She looks good. Best wishes!


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I think she could lose a little weight. She looks like you can grab a handful of fat behind her elbow on the shoulder. 

Is she having 21 day cycles?


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

If she's cycling normally I'd go ahead and breed her, if she's not I'd try to get a little weight off her and see if that helps.


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm guessing she is cycling normally. I guess I have never paid much attention to her cycles before since I've never had a buck around. It was totally obvious just a week or so ago when she was in heat. Good lord!! LOL! I'm curious how I go about getting her to lose some weight. She's in with the other does and other than giving them a little sweet feed every other day, they have free choice oat hay, minerals and baking soda. How does a person go about putting one goat on a diet out of the herd?


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I have a dry doe that would get fat if I fed her as much grain as the milking girls... How much grain a day is she getting? Do you put down grain and let them share? She may be stealing other goats grain if so. In that case I'd feed separately so each doe gets a measured amount.


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Write down when she's in heat each time to see how long in between.

I have a girl who has very strong heats every 7 days. She's unable to get pregnant though. She loves visiting bucks though!

She's also the one that doesn't need grain...


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, I feed them together but they all have separate little grain dishes they eat out of. She gets about 2/3 cup every other day is all. I hang out and watch them eat and make sure each one gets their share and no one is being a little piglet  

I'm not sure what is a normal size for a pygmy goat. She looks thick to me, but not overly fat. Should a doe be on the thin side before breeding? How do I check her for fatness? You mentioned she looks fat behind the shoulder. So, if I can grab some flesh in that area, that isn't good, & she needs to lean out?


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for your help nicolemackenzie. I'm a little nervous about breeding her after reading so much about pygmy's having trouble kidding. Have you ever had to have a doe have a c-section? I'm wondering what happens in that case. I have heard that goats going under anesthesia is not good. I'm guessing that in order to do a c-section, they must have to put them under. ?? Just curious if it's common to lose the mother in c-section cases or if they more often survive than not. As much as I want to experience breeding, kidding and learn how to milk, make milk products, I am very afraid of it all at the same time. I know there is good AND bad in all of it. Just want to have a good experience the first time.


----------



## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I would breed her if it was me but I raise boers. Also I had 1 c-section and she was knocked out and did just fine but we lost the kid.


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I have Nubians and alpines so not sure on birthing issues with the little guys.

A little extra weight is ok. Maybe just cut her back a little on the grain if she has a roll behind her elbow. 

I would still breed her though. I don't think she's too old or any more dangerous to breed than a 2year old. 

As far as anesthesia in a goat, just make sure you have a vet who is familiar with goat anesthesia. I think they could also do a sedative and nerve block. I know it sounds scary to bring all that up, but it's just better to be prepared for the worst. She'll probably be fine. 

Do you have a goat mentor who could help you if you needed?

The breeder I got my goats from has been a wonderful source of information for me.

Someone else may be able to give better nutrition plans for you. But one thing to avoid is over feeding during the last month or so of pregnancy. This is when the kids do a lot of growing and too much grain can make the kids too big. So that's not a time to increase feeding. I don't think you'd have to cut back though.


----------



## emmaandoscar (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, I have a vet close by and also some goat people I know that could help in a pinch. So, to check her to see if she has too much weight, I would grab the flesh just above her joint (elbow) and if I can grab some, she needs to lean out a little? Maybe I'll start giving them even less grain than I have been. What do you feed your does when they're pregnant? Do I need to do anything different than I already am?


----------



## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I feed caprine challenger. Free choice sweetlix meat maker mineral, and free choice hay. I also give a copper bolus every 6 months, and I give a Bo-Se injection now and then.

Deworm twice a few weeks apart prior to breeding. I use SafeGaurd but its ineffective in some areas so see what your local goat friends like. 

Maybe your friend could do a body score for you, it's much easier to do in person.

I don't change what I feed during pregnancy. I feed more leading up to breeding and the winter and then just stay steady.


----------

