# cocci worse



## djreq (Jul 8, 2013)

My little baby got diagnosed with cocci. She has been treated with Corid for two days now. Today she is so weak she isn't walking. I've given her nutridrench, yesterday, but not today. The vet is closed today. Help!


----------



## bayouboergoats (Dec 30, 2012)

Are you giving Vitamin B injections? What about Thiamine? Did you do the fecal yourself or did the vet?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she may need Thiamine (b1)..fortified B complex is a good source if you dont have thiamine on hand since its RX..if all you have is reg. B complex..give it to her..Corid is a thiamine inhibitor..she could have polio..

quote from tennesseemeatgoats


> Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement within a few hours if the disease is caught early enough. Thiamine is an inexpensive veterinary prescription. Producers should always keep thiamine on hand; the most commonly available strength is 100 mg/ml. Dosage is based on the goat's weight (4-1/2 cc per 100 pounds liveweight for 100 mg/ml thiamine) and must be given every six hours on a 24-hour cycle until all symptoms have disappeared completely to avoid relapse. Thiamine, like all B vitamins, is water soluable, so the goat eliminates daily what it doesn't utilize in the rumen. A sick goat's rumen doesn't produce B vitamins, hence the importance of adding them to the goat each day until it gets well. Initially thiamine should be given IM (into the muscle) but can be given SQ (subcutaneously) or even orally after several days of treatment. Some thiamine comes in 500 mg/ml strength, making the required dosage 1 cc per 100 pounds bodyweight. If thiamine is unavailable but the producer has injectable multiple B vitamins, check the label for how much thiamine (Vitamin B1) is present. *Fortified Vitamin B Complex contains 100 mg/ml of thiamine, so the 4-1/2 cc per 100 pounds bodyweight dosage is appropriate. Injectable multiple B vitamins containing only 25mg/ml of thiamine require four times the 100mg/ml dosage (18-1/2 cc) per 100 pounds bodyweight*, so the producer can quickly see the importance of obtaining the proper strength of injectable B vitamins. The key to overcoming Goat Polio is early diagnosis and treatment. Complete recovery is possible under such circumstances.


[/QUOTE]


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need thiamine. If you can't get that, then get fortified B complex and give her high doses. Corid can cause goat polio because of inhibiting thiamine. Sulmet or DiMethox are better options for cocci treatment.


----------



## djreq (Jul 8, 2013)

Vet checked positive for cocci. I tried to clean her bottom, and cut off a lot of hair, but noticed a lot of eggs and worms. I got a hold of the vet who says she probably doesn't need vitamin b, but says it won't hurt to give it to her. He has DiMethox that he will give me at noon instead of my corid. He is concerned about her very thin size, and says she needs calories and electrolytes. He recommends I buy some milk replacer or goat starter and try to get her eating that. He has electrolytes for cattle, but can get me those at noon too. He is concerned about the flystrike and told me to try to cut off as much hair as I can and clean her up with soap. He is afraid that even if she is eating enough, that she isn't assimilating her food, since it takes a month or two for the rumen to properly build up and that she perhaps she isn't able to process food well. Feed store isn't open for twenty minutes.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you noticed eggs and worms in her stool, then you have more parasites than just cocci. You can't see coccidia with the naked eye. Round worms and tape worms can be seen with the naked eye.

I would get the electrolyte and DiMethox from the vet. You can get a goat electrolyte at TSC. She will also need a white dewormer like Safeguard or Valbazen to take care of the tapeworm/round worm problem. I would also give her daily probios until she is better. You can give Probios daily for the rest of their life if you want so doing it for a couple weeks or so is fine.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen...Tape worms can bring her down just as fast...only white wormers get tape ...I use valabazen 1 cc per 10# 
here is a home made electro that is very good

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses(or what youhaveon hand or honey)
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Also..DO get the thiamine too...the vet should be able to giveyou enough for a few days but a whole vile is fairly cheap...I would get some and keep on hand..

there is a milk pellet you can get for her or calf manna..they like the flavor, just go slow adding anything toher diet..always start with small amounts, I would also offer her as much green leaves as she wants..


----------



## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Are you sure you're giving enough corid? I know the dosage is a little confusing, or it was to me. I was giving too much at first, but it would be just as easy to underdose I would think.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hows your doe doing??


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Any news?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

One of the things that drives be crazy is when someone assumes a goat that gets worse or does not get better is due to Corid causing a thiamin problem. There are many other reasons for this kid getting worse. Could be she was just going to get worse anyway and there is not enough kill on the coccidiosis soon enough, could be she has more than one parasite causing the problem, She could be dehydrated from the scours she has already had and just getting sicker and needing more hydration/electrolytes, ect...... a kid getting weak from one or two days of corid does not mean polio. a goat dying because you gave corid when it was already sick may just mean the goat had additional problems or was very weak. You can also get a kill off of the coccidiosis and there for change the gut so much that bloat and over eating disease can take hold of the kid. We have used Corid for 15 years on a herd of 40 to 50 kids born a year and it is a very affective treatment for us and I have not had one show signs of polio from it when used properly. I am not saying it is not possible, but I do think in this case the corid may not be the problem.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I dont disagree with that 20hills...There are many illnesses to be considered, Polio has its own symptoms, and should be able to to tell if thats what you are dealing with..corid does inhibit Thiamine..thats a fact not fiction..there are other products what work just as well or better that can be used and imo should be first choice over corid,....my first responce is always to give thiamine when a goat is shutting down expecially while using Corid because we KNOW it can cause polio, and we dont aleways have a full picture of what the goat is doing,...Thiamine is a good supportive Vit. and will never harm if given if not needed...


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have read, corid isn't a bad thing, if dosed properly. I as well, have been giving it for years, I dilute it as recommended per my vet. Given at the proper dosage, I have never had a goat kid come down with Polio either. And never gave Fortified vit B complex or Thiamine therapy after treatment.
You can for peace of mind, but I have never done it. 

Here is an interesting read on Corid:

It doesn't effect thiamin/B1 in the goat. Corid stops the last lifecycle of cocci occysts from maturing into the blood sucker it will become by blocking IT'S absorption of thiamin/B1. Anything given orally to a goat can upset the rumen flora and cause polio symptoms, including too much slufa's or too much oral wormers, not just corid. I refer to use corid in the south because it allows the goatling to have all the harmless lifecycles in the goat, only keeping the harmful one at very low levels, unlike sulfa's that kill all lifecycles and why sulfa's are the choice for treatment, but for me not prevention.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Corid mimics Thiamine, the cocci ingest the fake thiamine and end up starving....from what I understand, the problem with that is the goats thinks it has thiamine in it and stops producing it.

with that said...you are right..dosing and diluting properly makes the world of difference...also I think those goats who experiance Polio due to corid was most likely already in a weak state..if the goat already was feeling bad do to cocci, and not eating or drinking much..the thiamine production was also slowed...combine the two and you have a open door for polio..

I know many have had success with corid..and I know many have lost goats do to polio, most likely caused by using corid..
I dont think those who use Corid are wrong to do so.. and I dont thing those of us who choose not to use it or recommend it is wrong...its just an opinion..no right no wrong..
The great thing about Goat Spot is we can discuss the pros and cons..the successes and the failures so we all have the information to make the best choice for our herd..and I love that we can do that with out hard feelings


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree Cathy, some things may work well for some goat breeders, while others, it may be a bad outcome. 
Different area's and situations, as well as the condition of the goat before meds are started.

I love TGS too. That is why experiences and opinions are all welcome, we need to use our best judgement, in every situation and choose what method would work best.

We have all had trial and error throughout the years, so not all opinions are right or wrong, I agree


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Corid is a very affective treatment for Coccidiosis. I hate for people to be over looking it and afraid to use it. Sulfa drugs are actually not as affective. An active/developed Rumen destroys sulfa drugs and there for causes it to be not as beneficial as Corid. I am sure your location and how madly you need the medication to work can matter. Our area is ate up with Coccidiosis and we have to use something that works really well. We have used sulfa-dimethoxine at times. but found that the Cocci would break through as soon as 10 days after last treatment of the dimethoxine. When we asked the vet he explained the above reason to us and also stated he always recommends Corid as a more affective treatment in animals that have an active rumen. I have not used the other product that is out on the market that more and more people are talking about. We do also feed medicated feed with Rumensin and it helps a lot, but not enough to stop treating in addition to the Rumensin. 

I didn't mean to step on any toes, but did want to make clear that in my opinion there are several reasons this kid could be down after treating for a couple days with Corid. Plus with parasites being so bad this year, I keep seeing people recommending not to use Corid ever, and I really do feel they are over looking a very affective treatment that would/could benefit their farm. I recommend talking to your ruminant/large animal vet in the area and see what they are recommending.


----------



## djreq (Jul 8, 2013)

So we lost her shortly after posting. Vet has recommended Corid for years for all the goats he treats with Cocci and has never had a problem with polio like symptoms. He told me bacteria in the ruman produce vitamin b, unlike people who receive it from digesting fish, eggs, meat, cheese. Goats therefore don't require that much vitamin b. He said the only way vitamin b deficiency symptoms can develop is after too long, strong use, which would still be difficult to manifest. My breeder says she didn't have good luck with Corid and used DiMethox. My poor baby was to the point of nutridrench, elctrolites, probios, but sadly didn't make it. Everyone else recovered with Corid. She may have had other parasites in her fecal test that perhaps he missed, but he said she was completely overridden with them. I've done the 5 day treatment and am starting the 21 day prevention treatment per vet recommendation. Even my animals without diarrhea are happier, more active now.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm sorry you lost her. At least the rest are doing well. I would follow what your vet is recommending.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I didn't mean to step on any toes,


my toes felt nothing  I think its great to get all information out there and opinions..this is how we each decide what to do with our herd....


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry for your loss...


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I am sorry you lost the one, but glad you the others are doing well and are looking perkier. I have also seen the same results. Everyone looking a little dull and maybe not growing as fast as I would hope and then a good worming and a round of coccidiosis prevention and with in a week they all look perkier and bigger and better hair coats. Hope the rest of the summer keeps going well with regular prevention/treatments.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry for your loss , how sad, you tried so hard. 

Glad the others are doing OK.


----------

