# Goats Minerals and Copper?



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Hello, I have had goats for a year and have always gave them minerals but never copper is that okay do they need it? I read someone said she shoves copper down the goats throat but that seems unkind and I don't really want to do that. 
If it helps I give them them these minerals: 
*Goat Mineral | Manna Pro*

Thank you for any help! 
Anna.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

For most goats in the U.S., loose minerals won't provide quite enough copper, selenium, and zinc. So yes, using copper boluses is typically a very good idea. You can even hide it in food if you don't like pilling your animals. 

But before you decide, if you'd like to post a bunch of photos of all your goats, we can identify any signs of deficiency.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

^What she said!^ 

My goats need copper every three months we are so deficient here, but it might not be so bad where you are. I like to open up the pill and mix the contents into some applesauce. The goats just think they're getting an awesome treat.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Goats need copper, and most need A LOT!

Why don't you post some full body shots of your goats. Some need more copper than loose minerals provide, others get what they need from loose minerals. Copper does not get shoved down their throats, you can open it up into a treat, applesauce, anything.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> For most goats in the U.S., loose minerals won't provide quite enough copper, selenium, and zinc. So yes, using copper boluses is typically a very good idea. You can even hide it in food if you don't like pilling your animals.
> 
> But before you decide, if you'd like to post a bunch of photos of all your goats, we can identify any signs of deficiency.





MellonFriend said:


> ^What she said!^
> 
> My goats need copper every three months we are so deficient here, but it might not be so bad where you are. I like to open up the pill and mix the contents into some applesauce. The goats just think they're getting an awesome treat.





NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Goats need copper, and most need A LOT!
> 
> Why don't you post some full body shots of your goats. Some need more copper than loose minerals provide, others get what they need from loose minerals. Copper does not get shoved down their throats, you can open it up into a treat, applesauce, anything.


Okay thank you so much! 
What are the signs of not enough copper? 
My goats are loosing hair around their eyes and on their nose and when I looked it up it said they need copper. that is why I asked.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

What do you need to see in the pictures? Where they are loosing hair or just their body?


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Full body shots would be good, the places of hair loss, and their tails from the side. Tails say a lot about copper, also coat condition/color.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> Full body shots would be good, the places of hair loss, and their tails from the side. Tails say a lot about copper, also coat condition/color.


So I need to get full body, hair loss places, and tail pictures right.?


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Yep. (thumbup)


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> Yep. (thumbup)


Okay thank you! :hug:
Thank you all :bighug:


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Okay, this thread might become picture heavy in a minute (rofl)


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Okay here they are, if I need to get better pictures please tell me!


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

How do I give them copper?


----------



## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

They don't look like they need copper but it wouldn't hurt too much to give them a bolus, The missing hair around the eyes could be Zinc deficiency or Mites?


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

How do I give them copper or zinc?
They had mites once in the spring and we got rid of them.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Well I don't think they look bad at all! I'm actually wondering if zinc is your problem more than copper. If it was copper I think your black goats would be looking more reddish. Do the tips of their tail hair look split at the end when you look at them from the side? I can't really tell from those pictures. Fish tail is what it's called. It's when they loose the hair on the tip of their tails and it makes them look, well, like a fish tail. It's one of the easiest signs to notice for copper deficiency.

I had does loosing the hair on their noses do to zinc deficiency last year. That's really what it looks like to my eye. If you did want to give them zinc you have a few options, but what I did was buy human zinc supplement, crushed up a pill and gave them each one in applesauce.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I should mention that it is possible to over dose both zinc and copper so you'll want to be somewhat careful. 

If I were you I would do one human pill of zinc for the goats that are having hair loss and then reevaluate in in a few weeks to see if they were improving or not.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

The tablets I have are 50mg. I should have mentioned that too. (doh)


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> Well I don't think they look bad at all! I'm actually wondering if zinc is your problem more than copper. If it was copper I think your black goats would be looking more reddish. Do the tips of their tail hair look split at the end when you look at them from the side? I can't really tell from those pictures. Fish tail is what it's called. It's when they loose the hair on the tip of their tails and it makes them look, well, like a fish tail. It's one of the easiest signs to notice for copper deficiency.
> 
> I had does loosing the hair on their noses do to zinc deficiency last year. That's really what it looks like to my eye. If you did want to give them zinc you have a few options, but what I did was buy human zinc supplement, crushed up a pill and gave them each one in applesauce.





MellonFriend said:


> I should mention that it is possible to over dose both zinc and copper so you'll want to be somewhat careful.
> 
> If I were you I would do one human pill of zinc for the goats that are having hair loss and then reevaluate in in a few weeks to see if they were improving or not.





MellonFriend said:


> The tablets I have are 50mg. I should have mentioned that too. (doh)


Thank you! 
So it might be zinc and not copper! 
So to give them zinc I get human zinc pills and crush them, then put them in applesauce or something like that? 
Their tails don't look fish like. Do they need copper too? if so how do I give them that?


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

mariella said:


> They don't look like they need copper but it wouldn't hurt too much to give them a bolus, The missing hair around the eyes could be Zinc deficiency or Mites?


Thank you! how do you give your goats zinc?


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Garnet-the-goat said:


> So to give them zinc I get human zinc pills and crush them, then put them in applesauce or something like that?


That's right! I only crush it to hide it in the applesauce better. If you wanted to hid it in something solid, you wouldn't have to crush it up.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Do I need to give them copper?


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Is there a certain place I should get it or a certain brand?


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Yes, they do need copper.

They have fishtails, balding, etc.

THEY HAVE FISHTAILS, and the black one has an extremely severe one.

It’s very early stages still, just being fishtails and a bit of balding.

They also need zinc.

Copper bolus at 1 gram per 22lbs. Weigh it out, open the boluses. Any brand is fine.

Give a human zinc pill, half of a 50mg one would be good since it looks mild.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Nigerianownere707 gives very good advice.

I get my boluses at amazon, but where ever you can get them would be fine.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes, they do need copper.
> 
> They have fishtails, balding, etc.
> 
> ...


Really?
So what do I do? Is there a way you can show me what to get? Like a link or picture?

Thank you for your help!


----------



## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I see the beginning of fishtail on the brown/white/black speckled goat and the black one.
I order copper boluses from a goat supply company, but that’s in Canada.
Maybe someone from the US can give you a link of what they order.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/copasure-for-sheep-and-goats-4-gram-12-capsules


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> https://www.jefferspet.com/products/copasure-for-sheep-and-goats-4-gram-12-capsules


Thank you!


----------



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We use this to give copper boluses: https://www.jefferspet.com/products/small-bolus-gun

Just the other day I tried giving our goat George a copper bolus inside a date and he managed to eat the date and spit out the bolus. Twice lol.
Then our goat Junior nommed a date with the same bolus in it without even chewing. :heehee:
So the treat method can work but since all goats are different it may take a while.


----------



## GodsGarden (Feb 6, 2015)

I use a bolus gun as well. I stick the bolus in then plug the opening with bread so the bolus doesn't fall out before I can give it to them. It isn't as hard as it sounds. Just make sure to get it far enough back so they gulp it instead of chewing it and spitting it out. 
For zinc I just get a brand that is in a capsule from Natural Grocery's. I wet some grain, so the zinc will stick, and feed that to the goats. 
Good job and eye for catching the problem early. They don't look that bad to me and are super cute goats. The picture of the smallest, so cute! lol


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

GodsGarden said:


> I use a bolus gun as well. I stick the bolus in then plug the opening with bread so the bolus doesn't fall out before I can give it to them. It isn't as hard as it sounds. Just make sure to get it far enough back so they gulp it instead of chewing it and spitting it out.
> For zinc I just get a brand that is in a capsule from Natural Grocery's. I wet some grain, so the zinc will stick, and feed that to the goats.
> Good job and eye for catching the problem early. They don't look that bad to me and are super cute goats. The picture of the smallest, so cute! lol


Thank you!


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

21goaties said:


> We use this to give copper boluses: https://www.jefferspet.com/products/small-bolus-gun
> 
> Just the other day I tried giving our goat George a copper bolus inside a date and he managed to eat the date and spit out the bolus. Twice lol.
> Then our goat Junior nommed a date with the same bolus in it without even chewing. :heehee:
> So the treat method can work but since all goats are different it may take a while.


Thanks!


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

Would something like this work? Best Zinc Supplement on Amazon - Support Your Immune System
I need to give them zinc and copper correct?


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> The tablets I have are 50mg. I should have mentioned that too. (doh)


Should I give each goat 50mg?

Sorry I am new at the whole zinc/copper thing.:hide:


----------



## GodsGarden (Feb 6, 2015)

The link is broken for the zinc supplement for me. But Zinc chelate, if I'm not mistaken, is the best form. Zinc and copper work together so you most likely will see Zinc supplements with some copper in them. For myself personally when I took a Zince supplement I used the brand Solaray and that is what my goat got since it was on hand. Too much Zinc can suppress copper but as far as I know copper won't suppress Zinc. When I dosed copper I treated my goat like a human. He was a full sized buck so I have him the dosage for a human him being the same weight about.

So yeah, I'd find out how much the goats weigh.



NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes, they do need copper.
> Copper bolus at 1 gram per 22lbs. Weigh it out, open the boluses. Any brand is fine.
> 
> Give a human zinc pill, half of a 50mg one would be good since it looks mild.


Is what was said earlier. Since she has Nigerian's like yourself it seems like 25 mg would be good for the zinc. And then Copper according to weight. Hope that helps.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I just remembered something you should know. Don't give the copper and zinc supplements at the exact same time. They can actually inhibit the absorption of each other, so what you should do is which ever you decide to give first, wait maybe a few weeks before giving the other. This way they wont cancel each other out.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Oh, and I agree with what @GodsGarden said about dosage. (thumbup)


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Oops I didn't see that Godsgarden actually covered the absorption thing. (This is why one should always read the whole post before responding ). I checked in my favorite goat care book and it says that zinc and copper can both inhibit each other. So I would consider the possibility that that could be true.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

GodsGarden said:


> The link is broken for the zinc supplement for me. But Zinc chelate, if I'm not mistaken, is the best form. Zinc and copper work together so you most likely will see Zinc supplements with some copper in them. For myself personally when I took a Zince supplement I used the brand Solaray and that is what my goat got since it was on hand. Too much Zinc can suppress copper but as far as I know copper won't suppress Zinc. When I dosed copper I treated my goat like a human. He was a full sized buck so I have him the dosage for a human him being the same weight about.
> 
> So yeah, I'd find out how much the goats weigh.
> 
> Is what was said earlier. Since she has Nigerian's like yourself it seems like 25 mg would be good for the zinc. And then Copper according to weight. Hope that helps.


So I give 25mg each of zinc and how much copper for weight?


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

What will happen if they don't get copper and zinc? could they die?


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

MellonFriend, if you give in the correct ratio, you are actually better off giving at the same time. Copper will inhibit the leftover zinc in the body and it can make the situation a lot worse. I’ve always supplemented with copper and zinc at the same time and it has never been a problem. Keep it at 3:1 zinc to copper. Since boluses are slow release, we usually achieve this just fine along with a zinc supplement.

And yes, they can die. Mostly from lack of copper it’s a very important mineral for them.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

They won’t die on you now though, not unless extremely deficient - just noting so you don’t freak out!


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> MellonFriend, if you give in the correct ratio, you are actually better off giving at the same time. Copper will inhibit the leftover zinc in the body and it can make the situation a lot worse. I've always supplemented with copper and zinc at the same time and it has never been a problem. Keep it at 3:1 copper to zinc. Since boluses are slow release, we usually achieve this just fine along with a zinc supplement.
> 
> And yes, they can die. Mostly from lack of copper it's a very important mineral for them.


Thankyou for clarifying that.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> They won't die on you now though, not unless extremely deficient - just noting so you don't freak out!


Okay thank you because I was freaking out. 
How long would it take for them to get so bad they die?


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I don't know the answer to that question, but just so you can put your mind at ease even more, your goat's deficiencies are really not bad. My goats when I first had them were soo much worse than yours are and even mine weren't considered critical or anything. You'd have wild rough coats, your black goat would be entirely reddish brown and the tips of their tails could be completely bald. 

Your goats are in no immediate or even semi immediate danger. Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't supplement, but the state your goats are in, there is no way they are just going to suddenly drop dead.

And by how much you seem to be worried for their care, it sounds like you are doing your very best job giving it to them.


----------



## Garnet-the-goat (Sep 2, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> I don't know the answer to that question, but just so you can put your mind at ease even more, your goat's deficiencies are really not bad. My goats when I first had them were soo much worse than yours are and even mine weren't considered critical or anything. You'd have wild rough coats, your black goat would be entirely reddish brown and the tips of their tails could be completely bald.
> 
> Your goats are in no immediate or even semi immediate danger. Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't supplement, but the state your goats are in, there is no way they are just going to suddenly drop dead.
> 
> And by how much you seem to be worried for their care, it sounds like you are doing your very best job giving it to them.


Thank you! :hug:


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good advice there.(thumbup)
But in many cases, it may not kill them. Just make them suffer a bit. 

'Mineral deficiencies cause many issues.

Does, who cannot conceive.

Bucks who cannot get does preggo.

Kidding issues, super small kids, aborting issues. 
Holding onto placenta's to long.

Over all healthy appearance is gone, hair looks rough.

Have high parasite issues.
Which that can kill them. 
Mineral deficiency such as copper, makes the worms etc stronger, so the goat cannot fight them off naturally. 

Crooked leg issues, weak rear legs.
Off looking tails and fishtails.

This is to name a few.

That is why minerals are so important for their overall health of a goat.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

It can happen in many ways. Severely deficient goats will have bad parasite resistance. The worms kill, the mineral deficiencies indirectly do. Immune issues can happen from mineral deficiencies - which can kill a goat.

But mineral deficiencies themselves, a goat would be skin (and I say skin because there’d be no hair) and bones before they die. A long, long time... you don’t have to worry about that.


----------



## indigodesertmoon (Mar 22, 2015)

I give my goats Copasure copper bolus I open them up and put them in a marshmallow, they gobble it right up. You can also give it on the milk stand in the grain ration while milking just open the capsule and sprinkle it on. For loose Mineral I use either Purina Goat Mineral or Sweetlix Meat maker, I don't use Manna Pro it's too low on copper. If you are on well water the iron and sulfur can bind the copper making your goats deficient so they will need copper, if they are deficient they can lose hair, change color as in a black goat turning red, have trouble getting or staying pregnant, your buck may not get the job done or they can be susceptible to parasite overload.


----------

