# Toxemia Advice Needed



## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

I am new to the forum and have been reading every post and learning a lot! I have a FF due any day with toxemia. Her name is Ginger and she is a Toggenburg bred to an Oberhasli. About a month and a half ago she stopped eating grain and her condition has gone down drastically. She is very thin and seems to be carrying at least two kids, if not more. She is very wide. I started her on nutridrench about two weeks ago but the acetone smell to her breath got stronger. I had a vet come out and he prescribed 60cc of "goat malt" which is propolyene glycol and additional ingredients. I give this to her daily with the nutridrench. She was on it for four days and off two and is now back on it again. I wormed her with safeguard about three weeks ago. She has free choice minerals and I have CMPK on hand. I take her out to graze 4 to 6 times a day, about an hour at a time. She seems to be holding her own so far but I am worried. Is there anything else I can do for her and should we prepare to bottle feed the kids to allow her to recover. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is my first preg. goat. I have had goats for about 20 years. Ginger is five years old. Thank you!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Is she currently eating any grain or alfalfa?

How many days along is she?

Have you already read this? https://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm

I would buy Ketone Test Strips from the human pharmacy and check her urine to be sure she still needs treatment.

The birth can make them better or worse. Definitely have colostrum replacer powder and a gallon of whole fat cows milk from the grocery store as well as Pritchard teats (yellow and red) on hand. You may also consider getting a "kid tubing kit" which is just a tube and large syringe.

Have you watched goat birthing videos to see what is normal progression?

I would plan to have her on free choice alfalfa pellets or hay plus several pounds of grain when she kids and offer the kids bottles 2 times per day due to her weight loss condition to help her decrease demand if all else is going well. You will have to work her up slowly on new foods to avoid scouring.

Great work keeping her walking and eating for this long! You must be exhausted, it sounds like you have really been working hard with her. So sorry this happened on your first goat pregnancy!!!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I would give her B-Complex injection - 6 cc sq per 100# for a few days to see if that helps her appetite. Just MO, but I'm not a fan of keeping them on propolyene glycol for extended periods of time. Nutridrench contains this. I would try making a sweet drench of molasses, corn oil and karo and try that a couple of times a day. The PG burns, and it may well decrease appetite in some cases. Keep up the good work - best wishes to you.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Thank you for your advice. Just had the vet out again and this has gone from bad to worse.
He just diagnosed her with hydroalloantosis, excess fluid in the uterus. He did an ultrasound and he did see at least one kid, she may have more. He is very concerned and gave me B complex vitamins to inject as well as dexamethesone to be given tomorrow night to induce labor. We also have to load her up with proplyene glycol and corn oil in anticipation of labor. We do not have a due date, she is close though. She has started to soften. The excess fluid could indicate a problem with the kid/s. She should start labor Sunday or Monday and may need a c-section. We may lose her and the kids. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Not a great experience for the first time and will be the last. Will be working on her around the clock to hope for the best. She refuses any type of grain, alfalfa pellets, etc. She will graze which is something at least. I did purchase ketone strips and she is always moderate to high. I read this advice on this forum and went out and purchased them. I have learned so much. Again much thanks to all


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I just went through that with hydrops uteri this year (excessive fluid in the uterus) and had the triplets aborted with dex; they weren't anywhere near term though. The doe bounced back really fast after they were aborted though. 
I did make a thread on it, you'll find it if you search hydrops uteri.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

I will read that thread and sorry you lost the kids. I'm glad the doe bounced back! I'm hoping beyond hope that all turns out well.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

The doe should recover fine, I'm hoping your fetus(es) are far enough along to survive. You have my sympathy and my fingers are crossed for y'all.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> The doe should recover fine, I'm hoping your fetus(es) are far enough along to survive. You have my sympathy and my fingers are crossed for y'all.


Thanks, I will keep you posted


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I hope all turns out well for you! As discouraging as it is, you are being a great goat mom - sometimes these things happen. Wishing you and your doe/kids all the best.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

From what my vet and another 2nd opinion was, this stuff is just a case of "bad luck" and probably won't happen again in future pregnancies. They think my does was caused by one of the triplets, he was born kind of bloated looking, definitely not like the others.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Thank you for the words of encouragement.



goatblessings said:


> I hope all turns out well for you! As discouraging as it is, you are being a great goat mom - sometimes these things happen. Wishing you and your doe/kids all the best.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> From what my vet and another 2nd opinion was, this stuff is just a case of "bad luck" and probably won't happen again in future pregnancies. They think my does was caused by one of the triplets, he was born kind of bloated looking, definitely not like the others.


It is so easy to start second guessing everything you do with the goats and I do realize that some things are not in our hands. Maybe we will find answers after she gives birth also. So sorry that you lost one of the triplets.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I actually lost all 3, they were at least a month premature, probably more like 6 weeks - no hair, none of them even took a breath when they were born. I'm a lot more hopeful for you since yours is closer to her due date and the baby(ies) have a shot at surviving. 
It's also good your vet caught it. From what was explained to me, does that go to term with that issue usually don't make it. Did your vet explain she may need IV fluids after she goes into labor? All the liquid lost from the uterus can put them in a funky state - lots of fluid and electrolyte loss all at once.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> I actually lost all 3, they were at least a month premature, probably more like 6 weeks - no hair, none of them even took a breath when they were born. I'm a lot more hopeful for you since yours is closer to her due date and the baby(ies) have a shot at surviving.
> It's also good your vet caught it. From what was explained to me, does that go to term with that issue usually don't make it. Did your vet explain she may need IV fluids after she goes into labor? All the liquid lost from the uterus can put them in a funky state - lots of fluid and electrolyte loss all at once.


Heart breaking that you lost all three. My vet is wonderful and I am extremely lucky to live where I do. Cornell Ambulatory responds within 30 miles of the University as a service to the community farm animals. I have lived in other places that have no "goat vets" and that is very upsetting when you have a goat emergency. When Ginger goes into labor they want to be notified and will come out to help her and will perform a c-section on our farm and whatever else she might need. I did read about losing the fluid at birth and they can go into shock. Scary times ahead. The vet did prepare me for the possibility of losing her and the kids.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Sending you good thoughts that your doe does well and the kid (s) have a chance at survival.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Goats Rock said:


> Sending you good thoughts that your doe does well and the kid (s) have a chance at survival.


Thank you. I cannot find her ligaments this morning and she is very soft. I was kinda hoping she would go into labor but we induce her tonight anyway. I must admit I am very nervous.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> I actually lost all 3, they were at least a month premature, probably more like 6 weeks - no hair, none of them even took a breath when they were born. I'm a lot more hopeful for you since yours is closer to her due date and the baby(ies) have a shot at surviving.
> It's also good your vet caught it. From what was explained to me, does that go to term with that issue usually don't make it. Did your vet explain she may need IV fluids after she goes into labor? All the liquid lost from the uterus can put them in a funky state - lots of fluid and electrolyte loss all at once.


Wow, I just read your Hydrops Uteri thread and this is exactly the same issue. I called the vet to check on Ginger's diagnosis because maybe I heard the the diagnosis incorrectly and it is Hydrops. So sorry you went through this too. Hoping for the best at this point.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Prayers sent.


Thank you, gave her the dex last night and still waiting on labor to begin


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Any news? Dex worked for our doe too but she had them the morning after the 2nd shot. Vet gave her the first shot, sent one home to give the next day, and the day after is when she aborted. 
I'm hoping all is well with your doe!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> Any news? Dex worked for our doe too but she had them the morning after the 2nd shot. Vet gave her the first shot, sent one home to give the next day, and the day after is when she aborted.
> I'm hoping all is well with your doe!


No not yet, she is getting more uncomfortable and not willing to go out and browse. It is a struggle trying to keep her ketones down. The vet is coming back out this afternoon to check her so hopefully I will know more soon. Thank you for checking on us!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Just checked on her and she has thin clear mucus. Gave her calcium and now we wait.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Hope the waiting game isn't too long and all turns out well. I'm rooting for y'all to have an uneventful delivery of close to term babies.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

The vet was just out, she is only two fingers dilated and we will be giving her another shot of dex tonight. Her ketones are very high so he gave her dextrose iv, calcium sub q, and I am making goat smoothies out of grain, corn oil, water because she refuses to eat anything today. Still giving propolyene glycol and hope she gives birth soon. She has been through so much


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope it goes well for you.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> I hope it goes well for you.


Thank you, she is contracting this morning, hoping for the best and quickly


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

I really hope it goes well for you!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

singinggoatgirl said:


> I really hope it goes well for you!


Thank you


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Fingers (and toes) crossed for y'all today!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> Fingers (and toes) crossed for y'all today!


Thank you, contractions here and there and nothing organized, vet is coming out this afternoon to help her kid. The kids are still moving so I'm trying to remain optimistic. Ginger doesn't seem to be in any distress at all. Almost too comfortable. Really thought by now both dex injections would have worked. The smoothies seem to be helping with her ketones. I mixed oatmeal, grain, alfalfa pellets, corn syrup and water in a blender. Still giving her nutridrench.


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

I read your thread, I'm hoping everything turns out for the best!


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm not sure how long active labor was on our doe, I came out in the morning and she had already had one, and I stayed for the other two. Hopefully things progress and turn out well.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> I'm not sure how long active labor was on our doe, I came out in the morning and she had already had one, and I stayed for the other two. Hopefully things progress and turn out well.


Getting very tired, my son had surgery yesterday so I'm trying to take care of both on very little sleep. When it rains it pours. I really thought it would have been quicker since she was starting to soften on her own. Guess you just never know. Thanks for your support!


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I do know I gave her the second shot of Dex in the early afternoon, so probably about 18 hours before she had them from the shot.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Oh my.....praying for a good outcome!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> I do know I gave her the second shot of Dex in the early afternoon, so probably about 18 hours before she had them from the shot.


Thanks for the info, feel so bad that you or anyone would have to go through this. Vet just left, she is more dilated but not there yet. Because of her high ketones he is reluctant to do a c-section and wants her to go into labor on her own if possible. He said he would do one on thursday if she still hasn't had them but wants to give her a chance. So we wait. The goat smoothies are def. helping he said she acts like a different goat today. Much more alert.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Finally have organized contractions, about three minutes apart. Praying this goes well.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Praying for you and for her!!!!!


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Any news?


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> Any news?


Still contracting, getting more uncomfortable, no pushing yet. Just starting to press her head against the wall, rubbing her sides, etc. At least she seems to be progressing and not stalled.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Karen Kuntz said:


> Still contracting, getting more uncomfortable, no pushing yet. Just starting to press her head against the wall, rubbing her sides, etc. At least she seems to be progressing and not stalled.


Babies?


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Hoping all is well, I'm having trouble posting but I'm still checking in.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I hope your son is healing well from surgery and I also hope you have family and friends nearby for support! Don't forget to ask for help! I'm too nervous to ask about the goat.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> I hope your son is healing well from surgery and I also hope you have family and friends nearby for support! Don't forget to ask for help! I'm too nervous to ask about the goat.


I know! I wanna know how the lil lady is today too! I mightve been the stalker lady to see if she had posted in the birth ann. . But see she has been on but no word. So it makes me nervous.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Trouble posting, 2 does born at noon by c section mom had a twisted uterus


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Posting on a phone because I can't post on the computer??


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Babies were full term but week from mom's sedation, got colostrum in them and mom's condition is guarded


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Thank you so much to everyone for the prayers and support!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope they all pull through for you.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm praying!!!!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I sure hope all goes well for the poor doe. I'm glad you have a vet that works with you.


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## WhiteFeatherFarms (Jun 29, 2017)

I hope your doe gets better soon, been thinking of you!


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Same with the posting, I can’t post at all if I use Google Chrome, but I.E. and my phone work...

Glad you have live babies and prayers for them and momma!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Just an update-Ginger is doing well, she is grazing lightly and acting better today then she has for the last two months. She doesn’t recognize the kids as hers and runs from them, her udder is actually decreasing. Both kids are doing well bottle feeding, they are on the weak side, just stood up today and walked a little. I put dog jackets on them last night and kept them warm, lots of tarry poo so I believe we are doing well! Once again much thanks to all! Definitely not a good first experience!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad everyone is ok. I hope they continue on the path to recovery.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Karen Kuntz said:


> Just an update-Ginger is doing well, she is grazing lightly and acting better today then she has for the last two months. She doesn't recognize the kids as hers and runs from them, her udder is actually decreasing. Both kids are doing well bottle feeding, they are on the weak side, just stood up today and walked a little. I put dog jackets on them last night and kept them warm, lots of tarry poo so I believe we are doing well! Once again much thanks to all! Definitely not a good first experience!


Yay! Glad everyone is doin well.

Did you try maybe feedin her grain or treats she loves while someone helped the kids to nurse from her? Maybe if the kids nirsed a few times she might settle down and realize they are hers? Can you milk her and give the kids the colostrum that she has left at least? Or even milk her 2-3 times a day to give to the kids? Just thoughts that popped into my noggin.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

(((((Hugs))))) I'm rootin' for your goaties! I almost lost my Annika this year to ketosis/hypocalcemia. She's doing well now, but is still too thin. If Annie can make a come back, Ginger can. So, C'MON, GINGER!!!


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Glad Momma and babies made it. Hoping for the babies to "catch up"!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Ginger is making progress, still refuses any kind of grain and we are still force feeding her but she is definitely acting better and the ketosis is under control. The kids were switched to whole milk (followed the forum advice). They are getting stronger and drinking more. Mom has no milk. Thanks for all advice/support


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)




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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)




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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Cute!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

So adorable! And Mom looks pretty good considering what she's been through.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Aw, cute fuzzy baby! Glad the doe is some what better. Poor thing!


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Awwww yay for everyone! Happy that everyone is doin so well!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

I was a little too optimistic too soon, she now has hypocalcemia, gave her 60cc calcium by injection and waiting on the vet again, feel so bad for her. Kids are doing well.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope she pulls through for you.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Poor girl, I hope all goes well.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm still having problems with posting on here - but wanted to follow up and see how everyone was doing?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Still here!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

Well it has been quite the roller coaster ride! The kids are doing very well, they are bottle fed and growing like crazy. I took all of the advice I could find on the forum about how, what and when to feed them and all of the advice was perfect! They have their shots, bose and have been dehorned. Mom has retained the placentas and had diarrhea last week and was very sick. After more round the clock care she is back to eating and drinking again, may she continue to improve. Thanks to all for the support! This has truly been a miracle that they have all survived!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)




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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Cute! Glad all are doing well.


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Cute! Glad all are doing well.


Thank you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How cute.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww, loved reading the results of this thread!!! The babies are so beautiful! I hope mama continues to heal up, she is a tough gal to fight through all those obstacles!


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## Karen Kuntz (Apr 25, 2018)

HoosierShadow said:


> Awww, loved reading the results of this thread!!! The babies are so beautiful! I hope mama continues to heal up, she is a tough gal to fight through all those obstacles!


Thank you! She definitely had the will to survive as well as a very knowledgeable vet. I am so grateful we had him through all of this. Also so grateful for all the advice and support I received from this forum!


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