# Need info on legalizing urban goats



## Iceblink (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm needing to figure out how get goats legalized in a city, I know other people have done it, either getting laws changed or getting exemptions, ect. I know about the Goat Justice League in Seattle, does anyone have any other info, have you done it, what worked and what didn't?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would suggest looking in to claiming a desire to be self sufficient. Don't know if it would work but some states and towns are starting to understand peoples desire to provide for themselves.


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Boy, I don't know -- where do you live?


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## Iceblink (Dec 6, 2008)

In a small town in Nebraska that thinks it is terribly important. Self sufficiency is looked down on, something only 'dirty hippies' do.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Wow thats too bad! I think more communities are starting to understand the benefit of sulfa sufficiency and being green and buying local.
I would talk to your county agriculture extension office they may have some insight on what route to peruse.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I was going to recommend the Goat justice league... but I see you know about them. I live about 30 minutes N. of Seattle, and our City of Everett, WA obviously followed the city of Seattle in allowing goats in our city. I only had to apply for a license with the Animal Control Dept. Perhaps you can use examples of Cities with goats as part of your argument... I believe Portland allows too... Pet goats are common as assistance/therapy animals too. Good luck and I hope you can change these laws!


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Do you live in a city or a suburb? Do you really like where you are living? It is exhausting dealing with beaurocracies like that, and it seems like it would be easier to move. jmo of course (and I hate moving, but i hate dealing with self-important govt officials even more.)


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## OhCee (Feb 26, 2010)

County islands in cities/burbs are great places for livestock. Maybe try to find one- otherwise, you're looking at years of your life and a lot of money to get a new law/exemption.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

OhCee is right!
I grew up in Los Angeles county. When I bought a house I bought on a county strip/island within a town. That allowed me on a lot that was only 75'x200' to have goats, chickens even a horse. :shocked: I only had chickens at the time but the rules were VERY lenient.


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## Iceblink (Dec 6, 2008)

Actually, I hate Nebraska. My husband is in the AF, and we didn't choose to move here. We may only be here a couple more years, (less if I can't keep my goats) so moving wouldn't be worth it. Before we bought the house, I researched the property and was told it was a 'county island' and the health dept said animals were just fine. Now the city says they aren't and if my goats aren't gone in 30 days, they will remove and slaughter them. I only have 2 goats, and we are allowed to have 3 pets, so I will try to argue that they are pets. Otherwise, city codes state that we can have horses on a property our size, so that will be my next line of argument. Several of the neighbors have offered to put up a fight with the city, but I hate confrontation and really hope it won't come to that.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh that would be frustrating! I would ask the health department to put it in writing. Hopefully it wont ever come to the town trying to take them but you could show the town the letter. Darn. Good luck!


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## goatshows (Oct 5, 2007)

I know in Ma towns can start Agricultural commissions, i started one in my town, it doesnt help much but gives farmers a voice. I just had to apply for a permit to keep my goats on my property because we dont have 5 acres of land. it was a big hassle and they are only allowing me to keep 10 goats, and it cost me about $400 for the permit. I know what you are going through we had it with not only the board in town but explaining it to neighbors too which is the hard thing.


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## goatshows (Oct 5, 2007)

our town if you have them illegally then you are charged $100 dollars a day per an animal. and i believe have 30 days to apply for the permit.


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## Sundari (Jan 12, 2009)

Really sorry that you're having to deal with this. The whole "legalizing goats" business typically has two routes -- long term and short term.

Long term would be truly legalizing them for your community. Obviously that's what Goat Justice League is about. We're also working on that right now in Denver. Goats (and chickens) have technically been legal, but you need at $250 permit (with annual renewals) to own them, your neighbors have to sign off, yada yada. We're working on passing a new ordinance that allows the keeping of up to 8 hens chickens and 2 dwarf dairy goats without that expensive permit. To accomplish an ordinance change you have to go through City Council, and in our case it has taken about 2 years. http://www.sustainablefooddenver.org

With the city giving you 30 days to get rid of your goats, you've got to have a short term solution. I think that arguing for your goats as part of your 3-pet allowance is a great way to go. You can find lots of documentation of people using goats as pets -- taking them on walks/hikes, using them as companion animals. Talk about how goats actually carry fewer diseases that can transfer to humans than dogs, and since goats are herbivores they're not a threat to humans the way cats and dogs can be.

Also, in most communities, one horse = 4 goats (for zoning purposes). If you're allowed to keep a horse, you're allowed to have up to 4 goats. The impact is considered the same. So, if you're allowed a horse where you live, your goats should definitely be ok.

Last thing is that everything *should* come down to impact. Can they prove that your goat would cause a bigger impact to neighbors than a horse (or even a big dog)? The fact that your neighbors are supportive is HUGE. Get them to write letters on your behalf (or write the letter for them, and ask them to sign it) right away. Compile all of your documentation, and be proactive. Go to the head of your town's zoning department. Don't waste a drop of time on the piddly inspector-guy -- he has no power to bend the rules. Give the papers to the Zoning Administrator, and *also* send them to your City Councilmembers and Mayor. Invite the City Councilmembers to visit your property if they'd like, and see how low-impact your goats are. Often people have gross misconceptions about what goats are like -- they're dumb, stinky, destructive, yada yada... and are shocked when they meet the actual goats.

Ok, probably enough from me for now. Good luck!


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## Sundari (Jan 12, 2009)

And I agree with Logan -- *definitely* go to the health department and have them put it in writing that your goats are OK. Typically the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in city government. Unfortunately, I'm guessing you got busted by zoning, which may not give a fig about what the health department has to say. But, it may help your cause.


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## Iceblink (Dec 6, 2008)

I have applied for an extension to the 30 day limit, I have made contact with the city council member for my ward, he is also on the board of Adjustment, which is the board I will have to present to. I have researched the legal definition for 'pet' and any city codes pertaining to pets or goats. So far I have found that the definition for pet is "any licensed animal that is kept for pleasure rather than utility." And yes, I do milk one of my girls, but they are primarily pets. Licensing is done through the Humane Society, which does license goats in the other cities it oversees, so if the City would allow it, goats could be licensed too. The only codes that mentions goats specifically say that 'herd animals, such as sheep, pigs, goats or cows may not be herded along public roadways, or grazed in public parks to the detriment of the park." From that one would think that as long as I don't let them walk on or graze on public property, the goats would be ok, right?
Unfortunately, there were similar codes relating to chickens, and last summer code enforcement cracked down on chicken keepers, and one lady flipped out and made public death threats against city council members. Much drama ensued. Code enforcement started visiting anyone she had associated with. Eventually the council decided people on property an acre or more can have 7 hens, but now it seems that City employees are sick of the urban farming movement and don't want to listen, no matter how reasonable the cause. 

I am so stressed out by this whole thing, just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach, and anytime I have to talk to officials I start shaking all over. My biggest worry is that they will decide I can't keep the girls and I won't have time to find good homes for them. I am trying to find emergency boarding places, but not a lot of places board goats, especially if they have to be milked. 

I have learned my lesson though, in the future, we will never again buy within city limits, or anywhere near city limits.

Thank you all for the good wishes though, I sure do need them.


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## Sundari (Jan 12, 2009)

Hang in there... I know that it's really, really stressful. It sounds like you're doing everything right. Although it's really important to reach out to your City Councilmember, I would recommend keeping it as quiet as you can in the community. Although I'm quite sure that most of your neighbors would be supportive, there are lots of people with sticks up their you-know-whats, and you don't need this turning into a crusade for someone.

As an FYI for the Board of Adjustments, Denver is currently considering a new Food Producing Animals ordinance which would allow goats to be licensed through Animal Control, just like dogs.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I am sorry that you have to go through all this.. I wish you were in my city, cause it has been really easy for me to have my goats. In fact, I tried to be proactive and have all my permits etc.. done before I bought goats... and the city said that they wanted to see my place after the goats were moved in...???. I said "what if I cant have them?" and they said that they would help me to keep them! It was awesome! One day they escaped and ended up at Animal Control... everyone there LOVED them.. and were wishing that I wouldn't come get them .. cause they all wanted to take them home!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

> Licensing is done through the Humane Society, which does license goats in the other cities it oversees


Did you ask about them licensing yours? That way they would fit the towns legal description of "pet".

Good luck with all this hassle. I hope you get to keep your goats.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

doesnt county law superceed city law?


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## Sundari (Jan 12, 2009)

Stacey -- In my understanding, no. Cities get local control over their zoning laws, which is what this goat thing is about.

City law supersedes county or state law. For example, Colorado is getting ready to pass a law which would allow people to sell home-grown produce from their homes. However, that law wouldn't apply to us here in Denver, because our city zoning laws forbid selling anything from a residential zoned district.


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