# How soon will I see change after copper?



## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi all, I recently gave our goats all a capsule of copper. I noticed I had 1 buck that had the fish tail thing and a doe that is black that was getting copper hair color. How soon will I see that copper color go away?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It takes some time. I think a few weeks.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I had to treat my solid black buck for copper def. His hind legs had turned red and I being new to goats didn't know it was a sign. At the time he was only about 5 months old and I was unable to find any dosing info for a kid, just adults. I did find a recipe for copper sulfate in solution (1%). So I made that up and the first week I gave him 5ml every other day for 3 days. I then waited a week to see if it helped. I was afraid of over dosing him so I was being very cautious. I did not see any improvement so I started giving him 5ml every Saturday. After a couple of weeks I did see improvement, but it took an entire month for his hair to return to being solid black.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks! I will watch the 2 that showed signs of deficiency and see if they improve and if not then retreat again soon. I think the black one is looking some better on her back legs but its hard to say for sure. Thanks!


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

6 weeks is a good "marker" when using copper rods. If after 6 weeks they haven't gotten their color back and/ or still have curling hair or fish tail, then you can dose again. I had to do all of mine twice (and 5 of them a third time!). But there was improvement after each round. Check them individually, one may need another dose, the next won't. Only redose those that need it.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

Mine took three weeks.

Not to hijack the thread but can you guys tell by a picture whether my goat is deficiant or not?


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

rosti said:


> Mine took three weeks.
> 
> Not to hijack the thread but can you guys tell by a picture whether my goat is deficiant or not?


Usually  if the hairs in their coat are curling up on the ends, or if a black goat starts looking rust colored on the legs or rear end then it's most likely a copper problem

One if the first visible signs is "fish tail" where the tail tip is fanned out like the tail fin on a fish (this is due to loss of hair on the very tip of the tail).


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Also not to hijack the thread. I just did all of mine today, (wow that was a chore even with the balling gun) as we do have quite a bit of iron in our water. Yes they do have a good loose mineral free choice. Willow how come some needed so much?? I have two girls that appear very bad, so I'm wondering if I'll have to do them twice? Should I wait 6 wks before redosing them


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

Absolutely. Wait 6 weeks before rebolusing. 

A few of mine needed a third round as they chewed the rods extensively before swallowing :-/ brats lol. We used "The Marshmallow Method" for the first 2 doses. The last round we bought vegetarian capsules from Amazon, measured the copper into the capsules.. then we bought a tube of pro- bios, dialed 5 ml, stuck the capsule into the end, squirted that bad boy into the back of the throat, and immediately followed up with calf manna goat treats  ha! Beat them that way. ;-) hope that makes sense. 

There is some research that in plies that, chewed or not, they are still effective. I didn't find that to be true. Will never go the marshmallow route again. We also changed our mineral to Cargill Right Now Onyx, that should help us keep the copper bolusing to a minimum.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Thanks, I'll wait. I measured out the grams into the vegetarian capsules. I used the balling gun, maybe not properly, I didn't want to shove too far in, I had to redo it a few times. I did have one who managed to chew most of it. I did hold it in for a moment with head up, did a quick wormer squirt followed by some grain treat while I did hooves.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

Sounds good! Let us know how it went


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

Is copper safe to give pregnant does?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

rosti said:


> Is copper safe to give pregnant does?


Yes


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Rosti, you are less than 30 miles from me. I have ND and Boers.


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## HarleyBear (Aug 31, 2012)

Sorry to be another hijacker, but do you need to give copper if you free feed minerals with copper in it?

I had no idea. And when I think about my goats, I remember there being some brown on their black legs. I always just thought it was their color.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

@HarleyBear I think that depends on how deficient your area is. I have found one of my does needs more copper than the loose minerals provide her with -- the other does not. The doe who does is black, there does seem to be a connection with black goats and copper deficiency.


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## rosti (Feb 1, 2011)

clearwtrbeach said:


> Rosti, you are less than 30 miles from me. I have ND and Boers.


Really?!?! Where do you live?


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## HarleyBear (Aug 31, 2012)

You guys are so wonderful and forthcoming with your help! What would I do without you? Thank you!

I will look tonight and see if I notice some fish tails or if their legs truly look rust.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Harley, my loose mineral is high in copper, but you never know just how much they're consuming and we have a slightly high iron in our water- which blocks absorption. I did it because I saw some fish tail and two of my reds looked shabby.
Rosti, I live down in dallesport, well on hwy14 near dallesport. We should talk, I'll be looking for someone to maybe be willing to learn to milk. I have a few ND that will be in milk next spring and summer. I'll be going out of town for a few days. I'd be willing to pay and you could keep any milk also.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

Minerals provide the adequate amount of copper etc IF your soil/water/hay don't contain traces of minerals that block the absorption of the copper (like iron). I'm not in any way shape or form implying that minerals aren't necessary as they absolutely ARE. But in my case, and almost everyone in my area, the herd was not getting enough copper or selenium in their diet and supplements alone. Copper bolus &/or Bo-Se supplementation keeps them healthy and beautiful


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Our black little doe that had the copper color in her still has some copper so I am thinking I will retreat her in another week if its not totally gone. She did chew some but she is due to kid in 6 weeks so I want this area to be good to go. I also talked to our vet and TN is deficient in selenium so I ordered Bo-Se and they will be getting that too. I also looked up some pics of goats with fish tails and it was not what I was thinking in what I saw in my youngest buck so I think really the only one showing signs is the black doe.


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