# Rat poison in the same area as hay?



## Cali2013 (Jun 2, 2013)

I have a rat/ mouse problem in my barn. I keep rat size bait stations away from the animals and I have never put them in the extra stall I use to store hay and feed. My problem is the bait stations are not being used because the rats hang out in the hay stall. Their population is getting out of hand and I am desperate now. Do you all put poison in the same area you keep your hay? My fear has always been a bit of poison might get drug out and dropped in the hay and I don't want my goats to end up ingesting it.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Ugh - I feel for you! I personally would not risk poison near my goats feed/hay. 

Have you worked to eliminate sources of water, food, & shelter for the rats? Also have you tried eliminating their access point ("exclusion" techniques. 

I would pick a nice sunny weekend- haul EVERYTHING out of your goat barn and then rearrange while thinking rat! Items that create low/dark hiding spots should be eliminated. Use wire mesh for the easiest access points in/out of the barn. They must be thriving because they are getting quite a bit of food from somewhere... are your goats spilling a lot of grain/feed?

This is not the most humane but... I've heard water traps work quite well... Get a big bucket, fill half way with water, sprinkle sunflower seeds on top, make a ramp... I know people who have put extreme dents in mice & chipmunk populations this way - I imagine it works for rats if you eliminate other food sources? I'm talking 14 rodents or more in a day...apparently seeing their dead floating compadres does not deter them.

I had rats in my goat pen and came to discover that an old bath tub we had upside down in the pen for the goats to bask on actually provided a rat haven underneath!


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

I really wouldn't.. Poison is dangerous and some goats will try and nibble or lick anything just to see what it taste like.

Is there anyway you could adopt a barn cat? Some people put out buckets of water and the mice fall in and drown.

They make bait houses too that mice can get stuck inside. Sticky paper works. 

Make sure you have all your food locked up and try and seal any holes or tight spaces.

I think another issue with is poison if the mouse that eats it leaves and dies somewhere there's no telling what animal could get a hold of the infected body. 


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I've had a rat problem before. They are so flipping nasty. They were in my chicken house and burrowed under the floor. It was awful....the tunnels would collapse as you were walking across, etc. :hair: The only thing that worked for me was poison. And I hated it. There is virtually no way to make any barn rat/mouse proof. If you have hay, they have feed/nesting area. Any dropped grain provides food for them. :hair: Snakes work quite well. I love snakes. 

Clean out your barn if you can. Leave some hay in that area and make sure your goats absolutely can NOT get into that area. Put your bait in there. Be prepared that the dead rats WILL STINK. If you have cats or dogs that might get the poisoned carcasses, you'll need to watch closely because it can kill them if they get enough.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

First generation rat poison generally becomes inert once it has killed the rat so it won't usually be an issue as to what picks up the body afterwards, unless they are already vulnerable due to illness or old age....I was told this by the school rat trapper who comes to bait the chicken and goat pen.

He told me that putting poison in the vicinity of stored food and hay is fine as the likelihood of contamination is extremely small and it would take more than one or two grains of poison to harm either the chickens or the goats.

I was extremely paranoid about this to begin with but he now lays bait in stations directly next to my stored hay and it has never caused a problem. I think we all worry a lot and rightly so but it would seem this is unnecessary in this case. We have no choice but to bait. We are a school and must be seen to be reacting to the rat population but in the five years since he started baiting in and around the pen, I have never seen any spilled or 'out of place' poison, never seen the dead or dying rats and have seen a definate seasonal decline in their populations.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I'll politely disagree with your exterminator. I HAVE seen barn cats that were eating the poisoned animals and it WILL kill them or at the very least make them very, very sick. The key to controlling that problem is to make sure your barn cats are getting fed also (which creates another feeding station for rats!)


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

if no other critters go in your hay station, I would put some of these around
http://www.tomcatbrand.com/rat_snap_trap.html

we have rat and mouse issues in our garden area, and we'll put these in at night. one night, we caught 5 or 6 rats with ONE trap (we put them out at night and removing the rats when we heard the snap and put them back out there). they work much better than those stupid wood and wire ones. the only thing when you're using them is put the bait close to the back. we've had some rats reach in and have their arm snapped. that's never fun waking up to find a scared rat with a stuck arm, or just an arm stuck in the trap....


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I can't do snap traps. I'd have to use a shovel to pick it up and throw the whole thing away. I can handle snakes, bats, bugs, mice....but RATS terrify me.:wallbang:


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

kccjer said:


> I'll politely disagree with your exterminator. I HAVE seen barn cats that were eating the poisoned animals and it WILL kill them or at the very least make them very, very sick. The key to controlling that problem is to make sure your barn cats are getting fed also (which creates another feeding station for rats!)


I have just edited slightly as there are circumstances under which the secondary poisoning can occur from the body being eaten. I didn't mean it can't happen but just that it was very unlikely. Usually if it harms, it's because the barn cat...or whatever... is eating the poisoned rats regularly and there's a build up or because it's already at less than good health.

I would still agree with all the preventative measures suggested above....correct storage of food sources and a reduction in access and living opportunities but I also wanted to say that we have had problem free baiting for five years with no risk to my goats or chooks xx


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

yea...snap traps are gross, but, this one is pretty easy to set. i make my bf deal with that tho...that's his job!


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## Lucky S Ranch (Mar 10, 2014)

Pellet gun? 

A lead pill works every time.


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## Cali2013 (Jun 2, 2013)

I like the bucket half full of water idea really well.

The reason I'm so nervous about setting a pet and child safe rat bait station in the same area the hay is kept is because I one day I found a piece of poison out where my animals are (had just chickens at the time). That piece of poison came from a bait station I had in a stall that was closed up and not used. So proof these rats will carry off poison.

All pelleted food is in closed containers and I put the chicken food up every night. The rats must be relishing in the hay as food source.

I think I'll try the bucket with water idea first.


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## happyhogs (Oct 12, 2009)

I think that would need to be a pretty deep bucket.....rats are damned fine swimmers and very agile....a standard sized bucket is unlikely to keep them in. A mouse will drown by that method because it can't get out and can't reach the bottom either whereas a rat in a standard bucket would likely scramble out fairly easily.


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## Cali2013 (Jun 2, 2013)

Great news! As I was contemplating the whole water in the bucket rat trap this evening guess what I found in my hay stall? A rat snake, about 4' or so! A rat snake has never looked sweeter to my eyes. I left him just so wishing him good luck, hoping he had a few friends nearby and made a mental note that the snakes are out and to keep my flashlight handy in the evenings.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I agree snap traps, only the intended target gets injured. You don't have to put bait on mouse and rat traps, they tend to run along walls so put it right up to the wall trigger facing in spring bar facing out, perpendicular to the wall. As they run through it it will get them. Bait smell will just attract more.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Cali, I'm wondering if you can't just put some pallets down, scatter the bait under the pallets, then stack your hay on them. That would allow the rats access to the bait without having to worry about it being drug out into an area where the goats or other animals would have access to it. Something to think about. We use Ramik bait and they have big blocks of it that would fit under the pallets very nicely. Replace them when you replace your hay and it should take care of the problem with no danger to other animals.


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