# Pneumonia not responding to antibiotics



## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

I have a a 13 yr old nubian doe thats had pneumonia for 6 weeks. Had her on oxytetracycline,vet had me change it, Vet started with a round of,naxel, banamine and diuretic. Didn't work so she gave me draxxin and more banamine. Still not working. She is eating drinking pooping and peeing normal. Probios and vitimins and supportive care have been 6 weeks too. Even tried silver biotics,garlic,and Molly's herbals breathe easy. Barn is very clean and dry. She's just old and the season change I believe has her down. Vet isn't very encouraging on her prognosis. Any suggestions? She stands around with her mouth open to breathe,is a little snotty but it's clear.lungs don't sound terrible,but she does have pneumonia. How long to drag this out,I feel so bad for her


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How do you know its pneumonia?...i have an old saanen who keeps a stuffy nose with clear snot. ..Maybe try nuflor..3 cc per 100# sub q once daily for 7 day...follow up with probiotics three hours after shot...also give benedryl to help with stufffy nose. I wouldn't give banamine with out high fever...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, nuflor will knock it out. If it is pneumonia.
Banamine is only needed to bring down fever, usually given the one time, maybe 2 depending, is her temp normal?

She should of responded to all that was given already, was she dosed properly how much and how many days?
What does she weigh?

With up and down seasonal temps, they do get colds as well. With her immunity down from initially having pneumonia and with the drugs used, she may have a cold now, which will have to run it's course, Vet RX may help.
You say she is eating and otherwise acting OK? With pneumonia, they don't feel good or have a good appetite.

Boost her immune system.

Give probiotics and fortified vit B complex SQ 6cc's per 100lbs, for 4 days.

Does she have loose salts and minerals out free choice?
Feed Alfalfa introduce slowly. 

With all the antibiotics ect, her rumen needs rebuilt, that may be why she is still fighting a cold.

Your vet thinks it is still pneumonia? I am not sure if that is correct. 
Too many antibiotics is not good.

Another thing to consider is, check for blockage, with her holding her mouth open and all I am wondering if that is a possibility?

How are her lower inner eyelid coloring, pale pink, white or dark pink. Worms and/or cocci can be caused by stress, bringing her down more.
Check to make sure she is OK there.

Can you get a 2nd opinion with a different vet?

I am not there to physically see her, so I am throwing out all avenues.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Pam 100%


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What was the dosage and frequency on the draxxin?


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Same vet saw her twice. This is the vet we go to when the regular vet that isn't great won't do. She's hard to get,but is good. She thinks antibiotics were started too late,that's why she's still sick.and may have scaring??? I waited because I don't like useing them if it can be avoided. Fecals have been good don't think its parasites. she's just old. She didn't start breathing from her mouth at first so I don't think blockage. Can't remember antibiotic dose right now but I looked both up before giving them even though they were already dosed out in syringes. Good rumen,I'm very good about probios,vitimins,supplements,all the supportive stuff is usually what gets them through. My second opinion vet will probably say put her down that's why I'm asking here. I'm baffled too,this isn't just a cold I don't think. The antibiotics should have worked I agree. I'm just reaching here and hate to say it but could it be mycoplasma? I have no real experience with it but I thought I heard it can present itself like pneumonia? That could be easy to misdiagnose right? We also just had our wether put down after several months of undiagnosed lameness. Vet said no to the mycoplasma because it doesn't present itself that way


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes it could be...



> Kids infected with Mycoplasma mycoides mycoides (large colony variant) or other Mycoplasma spp may show *severe lameness* with multiple hot swollen joints, weight loss, pyrexia, and poor coats. Some have diarrhea, and *some have increased lung sounds and respiratory rates*. Affected kids are generally 2-4 wk old. Morbidity and mortality rates of 90% and 30%, respectively, have been reported. Adult does with Mycoplasma infection may have mastitis and polyarthritis. Treatment is with tetracycline, tylosin, or tiamulin, but prognosis for complete recovery is guarded.


But looks like kids have it the hardest...

I think if her temp is normal...she is eating and drinking well...acting fine other wise...try taking a break from antibiotics and keep up support care...boost her immune system and try robitussun and benedryl for symptoms...and keep a very close eye, checking temp daily and so forth..


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Thank you for the info. Never gave a goat robitussin what would be the dosage?


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Draxxin was one dosage 2ml


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If it's a viral form of pneumonia, antibiotics will not work.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Draxxin should be 1cc per 100 lbs give 2 shots 7 days apart. 

I would also do some serious immune support.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Robitussin is 6 cc per 100# twice daily ..im able to get an off brand called Tussen at the dollar general store pretty cheap : )


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

So she got the right dose of draxxin, Monday will be due another,if it's bacterial. 

So viral would only be treating symptoms not the virus because antibiotics wouldn't work. That would make sense since she didn't respond to any of them. I've never dealt with pneumonia so I'm still learning the types and causes.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Vit C will help boost the immune system, as will echinacea. I would treat the symptoms. Don't forget to provide probiotics to replace the good bacteria killed by the antibiotics. Antihistamines to help dry the lungs and sinuses. Cough syrup to help calm the lungs. If you have Banamine, that will help reduce inflammation in the lungs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice by all.

Good luck.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Is there a lab I can send some fluids to test for mycoplasma?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

look up WADDL Labs...

http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Talked to WADDL lab,they don't think the mycoplasma test is worth it.90% of goat herds show positive for the pneumonia mycoplasma. They aren't optomistic either,the Draxxin should have worked,even the higher dose in one injection. They said even after its not detected in blood,it collects in the lungs working longer than the blood level show. I'm not feeling good about her situation at all. Started Benadryl, going out now for a dose of tussin. She seemed worse this morning


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That is frustrating...a past run of a bad case of Pneumonia or lung worms can damage the lungs causeing her to be susceptble to URI due to scare tissue...has she beend tested for CAE?

how does she seem worse this morning??


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Tested negative for CAE. She wasn't tested this year,but a year or two ago.only one other goat brought here and she is neg as well.

She's very "snotty" and rattley today. Sounded like Darth Vator eating this morning and I wasn't close to her and could hear her. Found some blood on the floor too,I suspect she caughed it up,or had a bloody nose which she's had a lot of too lately.

Sometimes they get old and you can't fix them. Hearing that a lot. I have a very hard time admitting that you can't save them all.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm also dealing with a terminally ill dog,so in a bit of denial right now too


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

OH Pinfarm...that is alot to deal with...Im very sorry :hug:

if she is getting a bloody nose...try rubbing some unflavored lip balm...a bees wax base....it will sooth her nose...keep with benedryl and robatussin a few days,,see if it helps...
is she eating and drinking well? still no fever?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry you are having so many issues going on. Prayers sent.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Still eating and drinking well,tons of congestion and drainage in her nose. It seems to bother her more than the lungs.she's not coughing either. Can't find either of my thermomiters today. Very mild fever a few weeks back and it went down after the banamine. I'll buy another one if I can't find the other two tomorrow. The sleves for it are there,no thermomiter. I'm usually a very organized person,I'm a mess. I still have her on the silver,garlic,probios,yeast,and vitimins,along with fruit and veggies with vitimin c. Thank you all for the care and advice,it's easy to feel out of touch and helpless when you have an animal down.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have a Saanen who is about the same age...Paige stays with a clear snotty nose most the time, right now is her best time of year..not too hot or too cold..give another months and she will be runny again...we use a tissue on her when things get pretty plugged...she is well other wise, so we stopped giving medication...sometimes we can do more harm then good with meds and if your girl is well other wise...I would give supporting vitamins, and step back and see how she does...keep a close watch on her temp...booste her immune system....Paige is doing much better and gained alot of weight which had been hard for her to do...so for us..backingoff did more good then harm...Just a thought : ) 

best wishes


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Happybleats,no one has suggested that! Sometimes the hardest thing to do is nothing. Maybe I'll give her until the weekend and back off some. Got to pick up a new thermomiter tomorrow.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Sometimes the hardest thing to do is nothing.


I agree...but you will keep a close eye on her..watching temps, her eating behavior, energy level , providing supporting vitamins and working on boosting her immune system ect...:hug:

best wishes


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Weird thought here but, ask your vet about trying Sulfadrug instead of antibiotics. At her age she may be resistant and I've personally seen SMZ-TMZ pull off the occasional miracle.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug:


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Temp is 101.8. Vet was good with the SMZ!!! Good call goathiker! Even though drainage is clear,it has some blood in it so she thinks it's a good idea. I know she has pneumonia but the congestion in her nose really seems like it's what's bothering her. Thanks for the suggestions,maybe we're getting somewhere!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

fingers crossed this will do it!


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Temp 101.8. Just got the SMZ starting tonight,it's a 14 day course 20cc twice a day


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Giving goats prefer brand probios, what other brands are out there besides that one? Seems good so far but just wondered what everyone else uses and if there is a better one out there. I have the regular all species probios powder too.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I use the Goats Prefer powder and Angel Maker http://www.animalhealthsolutionsinc.com/products/104-angel-maker.aspx


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Angel maker? Where do you get that,never heard of it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The link that goathiker gave you is the angel maker.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Dah! My bad! I didn't even see the link,sorry. Looks like good stuff,do you only use that when needed or all the time?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

while she is on antibioitcs I would use it daily 3-4 hours after antibiotic dose..


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

So we're a week in the SMZ and no change at all. Still super snotty. Still eating drinking pooping peeing fine. Out grazing and sun napping as usual. I'd love to figure out how to use a nettie pot on her,I feel like I just want to rinse all that junk out!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..Im sure she would cooperate whole heartly while doing a nettie pot LOL

Might go back to our original thought after her treament is complete and give it a rest...restore her flora in gut...build her immune system...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So sorry to hear about your dog and your goat :hug: How is she today?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I read this all but I think I missed it. Have you used Vet Rx? Something so some works so well.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Haven't tried vet rx,but will. Should I give it orally or up the nostril? Have to go to the feed store today anyway,so I can pick it up


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Up nostrils.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

SMZ is a very long course too. I've never given it for less than 3 weeks at least. It works by starving the bacteria instead of out right killing them, which is why it will work on resistant bacteria. 
You can use vet RX at the same time though, won't hurt and an ear syringe to suck some of the mucous out would be good.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Hubby just called i haven't seen her yet today I am not home. Said she seems to be having trouble urinating and it's mucusey . sunk in and seems to be feeling down. Not sure temp I won't be home for a while today either. Wonder what the urinating trouble is? Uti from antibiotics?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

poor mama....def. need a temp as soon as you can...could be UTI or an uterus infection...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Nuflur is by far the best pneumonia antibiotic IMO. Also, load her up with zinc. Zinc is the best immune system booster. Can just get the pills that you would take and give her 2 in the morning and 2 at night for the next week. That or get a bottle of multimin 90 and give her 2 cc. Thats a spendy investment for just one or a few goats though.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I too like Nuflor for any URI issue..will take care of UTI as well...if antibiotics end up being needed....its a good choice...honestly I dont think she has Pneumonia ...with all the antibioitcs in her system it just does not add up....Im thinking she has allergies to something .. Unless the snot turn yellow or green I wouldnt treat...( unless she does in deed have UIT or Uterus infection)

you can order a bottle on Do Terra's onguard and put behind her hoof above the dew claw thingies daily to help build her immune system and fight illness...its an amazing Ess. oil Bend


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

I got out here to check her out been standing here forever and she hasn't tried to P. Never when you need them to!Was drinking from the ACV water though so at least she's drinking for sure.Temp was 102.5, heart rate was 120 bpm. Did 1/2 cc vertex in ea nostril seems to be helping.both sides of lungs sound bad, not horrible but not good. How often the vet rx? When I get inside I'll look up those supplements. None of this makes sense. Sent fecal out today too just to see what's up there.


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

If it were an allergy wouldn't the Benadryl have helped a little? Would her lungs be involved too if allergy related?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wonder if you are at a point with permanent lung damage with having the problem so long.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen...if her lungs sound bad with all the antibiotics she has had...there is most likely damage....a fecal is a great idea...sounds to me she is great hands..

if all else fails...keep her as comfy as you can...clean her stuffy nose, might give the pneumonia vaccine to protect her from further infections...I used the one we put up the nose..because that is where the virus lives : )


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## pinefarm (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone, feel like I've exhausted most options. I'm gonna keep on babying and loving her as long as I can. Continue the end of antibiotic round and supportive care. We have delayed it long as possible but we have new goats coming home sunday too. Hoping to keep her seperate so we don't stress her out any more than she is.


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