# One More Question...wormers



## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

OK, last question of the day!

Can goats be wormed with a horse paste wormer. I just got Ivermectin 1.87% to worm the horses. Can I use the left over for the goats? These are Sannens and one is due to kid in a week. Or do I have to get specific goat wormer? It does say on the box for horses only, but can't I worm the goats with Ivermectin?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I only ever used paste wormers...Safeguard as well as Ivermectin and recently..Equimax with praziquantel
Heres the link to the doseage info
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15190


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

So, you are saying that it is OK to use this horse wormer? Thanks for the link!

Now all I have to do is figure out how much they weigh! There is no way I am going to be able to pick up either one. Sasha is preg and Bella is a yearling. Do you know of a web site that converts inches into pounds? I can measure them. They are Saanens.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

When I worm I use the horse wormer.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Of course..IF I would do a search before asking questions! I found a post her (that I made  that has a formula for tapeing a weight. So, when hubby gets home, I will measure and do the formula!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I love Equimax horse wormer, It has praziquantel in it. And is fantastic for tapworms, removes the segments and the heads. We give it at 3x the dosage for a horse. 

Ivermectin would also be atleast 3x the dosage for a horse. 

I haven't used safegaured horse wormer, not sure of that dosage, They sell a small bottle of liquid safegaurd for sheep and goats for $20, I give that at 3 x the dose recommended for sheep and often times I give it 3 days in a row. 

wormers like Safegaurd(safe for pregnancy) and valbazene(NOT safe for pregnancy) are also okay for tapeworms, but they only remove the segments, not the heads.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I am now wondering if since Sasha is 8 days out from being 150 days into her pregnancy, should I worm her now or wait til after she kids? Also, why 3x the amount for horses? Is it because they are runiments and horses aren't?

Thanks for your reply 20! I will keep that in mind for the next time.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well is there a reason you are going to worm? If its just because I would say most defiantly wait. If she has a high worm load than it may be ok to do it now. 

Yes because they are ruminants and their systems process it much faster you need to give more of certain wormers and medications not all.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I usually worm the horses in the spring and thot I would do the same to the goats. I have not done a fecal, but their coats look rough. I have had them since last August and do not know when they were wormed last. I have no problem waiting if that is what I should do. I am worming the horses tomorrow so thot I would use the left over for the goats. Once a tube is used I throw it away so I have no idea how long I can keep the unused portion in the syringe before it goes bad.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Since one tube lasts me a while, I refridgerate the 6cc syringe that I push the wormer into for accurate dosing...inside a ziploc baggie to prevent any dehydration


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Thanks liz! 

I guess I will wait til after she kids, which could be 8-10 days from now. How long after she kids can I worm her?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

the recommended dosage of ivermectin for goats is 1cc of ivermectin 1%cattle injectable per 25lbs of goat, It use to per per 50lbs of goat, but many people have started to use it at the 1cc per 25lbs. 

1% injectable would be 10mg of active ingred. per ml or cc. so it is recommended that for every 25lbs of goat they receive 10mg of active ingred.

ivermectin 1.87% has 91 mcg per lb at the recommended dosage. Mcg = .001mg
so it would have .091mg per lb, if you multiply by 25lbs you would get 
.091x25= 2.275mg of active ingred. per 25lbs
remember we said the recommend dosage is between 10mg for 25lbs of animal to 50lbs of animal. 

If you go by the old recommended dosage of 10mg of active ingred. per 50lbs of animal you would need to give twice as much ivermectin horse wormer to a goat as you would for a horse.

2.275 mg per 25lbs of animal = 4.44mg per 50lb animal therefore you would have to give a little more than twice the amount of horse wormer since your goal would be 10mg per 50lbs

when trying to reach the new recommended dosage of 10mg per 25lbs of animal you would need to give 10 divided by 2.275 =4.39 times as much. So the recommended 3 x the horse dosage is actually on the conservative side.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Liz that is a good idea, about putting the medicine in a syringe for accurate dosing, hadn't had the brilliant idea of thinking of that. I have standard breed, and they need a lot any way, but thanks for the idea, for the smaller onse.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

WOW! You so lost me with all that math! 

I am so bad at math so let me ask this. If the goat weighed 100lbs, how much ivermectin would you give? Yep, I'm taking the easy way out and letting someone esle do the figuring!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

It is late at night to make me work that hard. If she weighs 100 lbs, and you are using the ivermectin horse wormer that is 1.87% you can give her enough for a 300lb to 400 lbs of horse. 

Hey, I did all that math, and helped deliver two bouncy baby boys, sure glad I didn't have to pull that doe, she is not tame at all, and has been in labor for 5 hours. But she managed all on her own. What a trooper. 

I am going to bed, I have to get up in 6 hours, our kids weigh in for the fair is in the morning.We need the first load in to the weigh in station at 5:45 am. Yawn!!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We used horse paste the last time we wormed too. We used Equimax on the pregnant doe and all the kids, 3x the dosage for a horse, and did it again about 7-10 days later. However, we used Quest for the adults who were not pregnant <Quest - NOT SAFE FOR PREGNANT GOATS!!!!>, and that is stronger and same dosage as a horse <100lbs goat gets treated like a 100lbs horse>.

I like the paste, but think we'll be buying a bottle of cydectin soon as that seems to be most effective in our area. BUT I've learned, it depends on what kind of worms they have....


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Itchysmom said:


> WOW! You so lost me with all that math!
> 
> I am so bad at math so let me ask this. If the goat weighed 100lbs, how much ivermectin would you give? Yep, I'm taking the easy way out and letting someone esle do the figuring!


a 100 lb goat would get enough ivermectin horse paste as a 300 lb horse. Dose on the high side not the low. 
I would give it after but the same day she kids if there is a heavy load. If its real bad I would go ahead and do it now since it is supposed to be safe but if the load isn't high i personally would wait. (I run fecal tests to determine when it is needed)


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

We use quest all the time on pregnant animals. Well not actually quest, but the active ingredience in quest,which is in cydectin sheep drench. But Valbazene can and will cause abortions. Quest has a very good ingredience in it for barber pole worm, It is considered one of the last resort wormers, since worms are starting to build up a high resistance to safegaurd and ivermectin.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Safeguard for goats is a joke in these parts. I was talking with a woman who bought a buckling last night, and I told her we didn't know about wormers when we started, and we used Safeguard at first...she was laughing and agreeing with me on how useless it is in this area.
Ivermectin and Cydectin are the best in this area, but Ivermectin has been showing some resistance. 
We had a fecal run a couple of months ago and had strongyles which Ivermectin is supposed to kill! We wormed the does after they kidded with Ivermectin injectible orally, then again 7-10 days later...and gave the higher dosage...they STILL had those worms!
I haven't had another fecal done, but that's when we used Quest as I couldn't find a small bottle of Cydectin, all the stores had were the big gallons that are $150-250 or something of that sort, I didn't have that kind of $$ for wormer! The smaller bottle is $80.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

This has started an excellent discussion! Thank you all for your input!

I think I will wait until after she kids to worm as I would rather be on the safe side. Should I then worm her 7-10 later also? Seems to be that worming goats is similar to worming horses. Since I do not know when or if she was wormed last, I would wormed twice as that is what I would with a horse that I didn't know the worming schedule before I got it.

Thank you all for your help!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Heres my opinion on worming in case you haven't heard it already.....

1. Get a fecal check done! 
If there isn't a high worm load there is no reason to worm! Goats usually always have some worms and this isn't a problem; it is only when there is a worm explosion or overload that treatment is necessary. 

2. Treat the right worms with the right wormer!
Some wormers work for some worms some work for others. I have not yet found a wormer that killed all worms. If you choose the wrong wormer you might not kill the worms you are having a problem with.

3. Use the correct dosage!
Under dosing will cause the worms not to be killed.

4. Follow thru and do a 2nd treatment 7-10 days after 1st and then a 3rd time 7-10 days after that. 
The worms have a life cycle and if you worm only once you only are killing adults and then later the eggs will hatch or larva will continue to develop. You will continue to have a reoccurring issue! 

The problems that are arising with superworms that have a resistance to wormers are do to people doing some or all of the above incorrectly!! This is my opinion and it is based on discussions with a few livestock veterinarians and quite a few animal breeders.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Thanks freedom, that is how I do it with the horses. I have yet to do a fecal here so I will check with the vet on the cost.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Shouldn't cost too much usually about $10.

I do checks right after kidding, transport, or during any times of stress.
I also do random checks every few months.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Good luck finding a vet around here for $10 that will do it  The lab I use does charge $12, BUT the only goat fecal they ever did was one of mine a few months ago, so they have no experience with goats. Everyone else wants $35-50 per goat 

So...if your vet charges a lot, try to find an animal hospital that has a lab...seems to be the cheaper way to go as you are cutting out the 'middle man charges.' I sent mine through an equine hospital.

Equimax will kill different types of worms and tapeworms, but Quest won't kill tapeworms. We've not had to treat barber pole or any of those that I know of...


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

WOW that is a lot for a simple fecal!
I actually have my own microscope now I got it because at $10 a pop with how often I liked men to be checked it added up. 
I bought it and the sildes for just over $100. If it costs that much you are better off just buying one and doing it yourself.


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