# Show me the knees of your goats?



## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Just like the title asks. I just read that a sign of CAE is bare knees from walking on them. But I don't know if it's true. How many regular healthy goats have bare knees? Esspecially those in the desert? Because one of my sheep has bare knees too, so? But I do notice a crackling noise when the goats walk. I have never seen my goats walk on their knees, only use their knees to get up.

I know, I know, I just need to bite the bullet and have them tested. I have a feeling they have it. But I'm too afraid to find out. *tears well up* I dunno. I guess I'll call a vet to see what they'd charge to do it. I don't think I can do it myself. 

I need to find out before I put a deposit on a goat for Spring. Because if they do have it, my quest will be over before it has fully begun. And, I think I will be out of the goat business until these does are dead, because I'm attached, and I don't have the heart to get rid of them. *cries*


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Awww... :hug: 
Bare knees don't mean CAE....Just means that it is a pressure point from laying around. Ever watch a goat go down in to a lying position and then get back up? They use their knees.....testing is a good thing to be sure, I too wonder and will test eventually but for now, funds are tight so it can wait. Besides that if the goats aren't showing the clinical signs of the disease, which 95% do, then I think you'll be ok.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't see how and why balding knees... would be a sign of CAE....... they can get that just from just simply..... getting up and laying down........they have to use there knees to do that......so no worries there..... :hug: :wink:


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

What are the signs Liz? I didn't really know that there was any signs per se.

I always figured all goats had bear knees. You don't know how frantically I was scouring through the photogenic section looking at all the knees! I'm a worry wart...


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

Luna has bare knees and she came from a tested CAE negative herd. The littles are getting bare knees and even Cleo is startin to get em. I personally was wondering how to stop it cause I ws worried the they would mark off for it at show :greengrin: . The clinical knee symptom is swollen(very noticabley) and usuall by this piont they are walking on their knees almost exclusivly.(sp) So bare knees do NOT equal CAE.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Clinical signs of CAE in young kids are usually the "brain" and nervous system....causes paralysis in the hind quarters, pneumonia is also sometimes seen with the paralysis..kid is normal otherwise, the same nuerological symptoms can occur in older goats as well, but mimic the signs of polio...circling, head tilt, facial nerve paralysis.

The arthritic signs of CAE are more commonly found in 1-2 year old goats and of course will progress as they age.
Signs are Arthritic knees and hock, stifle joints and progression to the point of total imobility...laying around alot due to the stiffness in the joints....these joints are swollen and inflamed, most goats that are CAE positive and do survive any neurological infection will eventually develope the arthritic form at some point in their life.

Heres the link that I got most of this from...
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/cae/cae.shtml


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

virtually all my goats have bald knees. its normal. 

where the confusion might be coming from, is SWOLLEN knees is often spoken about as a sign of CAE


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

*takes a deep breath*

Thanks everyone I feel much better. I was having a hormonal moment I think. *sorry guys* 

I did call my vet, and a friend to help me draw the samples. So, I'll pick up the supplies from the vet's office, have my friend draw the blood and the vet said they would send it in for me, and just charge me the overnight shipping and lab fees.

I feel a little better now. I still worry now and then.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats quite allright! :hug: I know exactly how you feel :wink:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

One of the biggest signs of CAE in adult animals is swollen knees. Not all positive animals get swollen knees. Some show no signs of CAE. 
Here is a picture i found on google...its a little hard to seem but the doe on the left has very swollen fluid filled knees. They are usually squishy and swollen looking
http://www.karlschatz.com/yearofthegoat ... 8_2592.jpg
There has also been a commen link found between CAE and chronic mastitis. 
A lot of goats have joints that fuse and lock up as they get older. They get really stiff and are unable to bend their knees and hocks.
Other goats show absolutly no signs of CAE their entire life.
As for the popping sound youre hearing, it can also be the tendon over their knee sliding back and forth as they walk. None of my animals have CAE but several of them pop. 
beth


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

can I also just point out that while swollen knees is a big sign of CAE, you can also get swollen knees without them being CAE

I've had two boer bucklings (probably somewhere between 4 and 6 mths old) swelled up in one front knee - very soft fluid filled swelling. Not an abcess. Called the vet because I was concerned about CAE. He came out, looked at it, also tested it. Tests were neg for CAE and the vet said he wasnt surprised - he didnt think it was CAE. He'd seen this sort of thing before, it wasnt common and fairly rare, but common enough that he'd seen it a few times before if you know what I mean. its some sort of haemotoma but not caused by trauma or anything. basically you just leave it alone - it doesnt cause any pain to the animal and it goes down by itself eventually. lancing/draining doesnt speed the recovery.

I also had a bottle kid swell up in one front leg, I thought it was joint ill, turns out she had a 5cm long thorn (from the hay) which had got stuck right in the joint. she healed up alright in the end


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

That's just a large caluse on the knees, most every goat has that. However, the CAE signs they're talking about have nothing to do with the caluse, it has to do with swelling of the knees. So if you see over large knees it could be CAE.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Actually CAE goats with swollen knees tend not to have the callous circle on their knees because it tends to be painful for them to be on their knees.

In 2007 I bought a buck from a reputable breeder who had really bad scurs(they were like horns) and when he was approximately 6 months old he broke one of his scurs off while fighting with his pen mate. We took him in for an emergency dehorning and he was fine until two weeks after he got horribly ill. He recovered from that but was never able to quite walk properly again. As the winter progressed, his knees swelled up and he lost condition. By the time we put him down(after spending a pretty penny on every single thing imaginable to try and treat him) his knees were fused together at the joints and permanently bent, as well as his hocks being fused together. It was very sad, especially since I had to basically watch for 6 months while this happened to him and I could do nothing about it :tears: Anyway, when we put him down, we had the vet draw blood on him and had him tested for CAE; the results came back negative. We were also going to have tests done for mycoplasma but the vet didn't know that that didn't require blood, it required snot.

So, although the buck tested negative, he looked exactly like CAE did in the book and he was always in good spirits never not eating right up until the day he died. I've heard that CAE pos. arthritic goats don't have heat in their joints, but Caesar did have heat before his joints fused together. Ever since Caesar, I've never had a goat come up with any of those signs.

Now our neighbor had a doe that was obviously CAE positive even though they never tested her. Every single time she kidded ever since she was a kid she had a rock hard udder that had absolutely no milk even though it was so big it looked like it was full. They never culled her and we never visited their place just in case our goats would get something.

The neurological CAE cases tend to affect kids more often than adults, and I'm pretty sure you have to have CAE really really bad in your herd for it to be affecting kids that way.


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## BetterBuckskins (Feb 1, 2009)

I agree with goathappy, I always heard that if your goat DIDN'T have worn sppots on it's knees that it was a sign of possible CAE.


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks so much for all of your information. I do feel better about it, but I will still test soon. I just need to finish getting organized.


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## Shantarskiye (Apr 15, 2009)

Every single one of our goats have bare knees simply from getting up and down. :shrug:


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Well, my Alpine's knees seem fine. But my Nubian's knees seem kinda squishy. I'll keep an eye on her. She is overweight right now an keeps jumping up and down on the cable spool. I think they might just be enflamed, but only the test will tell for sure.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: :wink:


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Another old post! I was clicking "like" then realized the dates. Silly me!
To the recent poster- all goats can bend their knees unless they have
serious arthritis (CAE) or a problem-


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Large knees are typically a later sign of a positive CAE doe who has gone clinical. They are not just swollen knees, they are arthritic. Thus the name Caprine Arthritic Encephalitis. You need to remember there are two distinct stages of CAE. The first like the HIV virus is silent with little to no visible signs. Then like when HIV progresses into AIDS, the typical clinical signs start to show up. With CAE the most common being swollen knees. BUT a positive animal can live its entire life without showing any signs / going clinical. I can show you video / pictures of 3 does all over the age of 10 that have been CAE positive for 8 years or more and still are showing now sign. You simple CAN NOT look at a CAE positive animal and tell if they have the disease if they have not gone clinical. But they can spread it the same no matter what stage they are in. Most often passed on to offspring through milk but also through blood. Slight possibility to be transmitted through other bodily fluid.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I split off Poster and question, it has been moved to it's own Topic.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/goat-knee-questions-161165/

This is an old Thread, please go to this link above, to answer any questions this member has asked there. :thumb:


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