# More questions - 6/08



## HoosierShadow

Okay so I am trying to get prepared, and need to make a list of things to get. 

First...I have an SUV, next year we plan on getting a truck...so for now the 2 doelings my kids would like to showin 4-H have to go in the back of the SUV....which I don't mind. My question is... what should I line the carpet with to help keep them from urinating/pooping on it? Any suggestions on getting it set up for them would be great. 

I'm trying to do this on my budget, so I can't go and get every single thing, so I need just the basics to get my kids a good start. They are showing boer percentage does. Both are 'correct' in color so white bodies/red heads.
Here's my list so far...

Shampoo - I have dog shampoo, but plan to get the shampoo they use to prep sale horses ---for white hair.

Hoof polish - is this also what people use on their horns to make them look nice? 

Goat power punch - someone told me in the other post to use this and drench to keep them from being sunken in.

Show collar


They are fed regular medicated goat feed, and seem to be doing fine on it, but should I consider mixing it with a better quality feed for them?
They get loose goat mineral...

Someone once told me I can add oil to their feed to help make their coats shine more....corn cooking oil? 

I am ordering a tattoo kit next week so we can get their ears tattooed, and then we have to also have a scrapie tag on...oh fun.

We need to get clippers so we can clip them. Any idea how short their coat should be? I know this has been discussed in another area on the forum before, but I never thought to ask how 'long' the coat should be. 

Anyone ever used people trimmers? haha...I can't believe how expensive the trimmers are, so I'm keeping my eyes out for a decent used pair that isn't so expensive. 

I'm a stay at home mom when I don't do part time photography stuff, and I am trying to do this on my budget since we have so much else going on. 

I'll try to get some updated pictures of the doelings soon. They aren't top of the line bred/conformation does, but they are a start for my kids. If they like showing in 4-H then we'll worry about better quality show does. It's for fun anyway, and I don't want them to be pressured


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

I have used people hair trimmers both on all different breed dogs. I would think they would be fine for a goat also and much more reasonably priced. I use the brand Whal that sells both people and pet trimmers. The key is a new or freshly sharpened blade! Dull blades pull on the hair and also give you a uneven cut. Not sure if anyone has tried them but this is what I intend to use for my goats. I may shave a few this weekend and will let you know how it goes.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*



freedomstarfarm said:


> I have used people hair trimmers both on all different breed dogs. I would think they would be fine for a goat also and much more reasonably priced. I use the brand Whal that sells both people and pet trimmers. The key is a new or freshly sharpened blade! Dull blades pull on the hair and also give you a uneven cut. Not sure if anyone has tried them but this is what I intend to use for my goats. I may shave a few this weekend and will let you know how it goes.


Thank you! Please do let me know how it goes! We were going to use my husband's old pair, but I'd definitely pay to get a new pair. We'd only be doing 2 doelings, and fingers crossed they won't need too much done when it gets closer to show time.


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## myfainters

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

I would buy a large dog crate to put in the back of your car....you can usually find used ones on craigslist for a good price and you don't have to worry about them peeing and pooing all over your car.


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## ()relics

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

You can definitely use dog or horse shampoo on your goats. As to the rest of your list. 
Most of those products, for fitting, can be replaced with Show Sheen. I use it on hooves, coats, and horns. I start coating and brushing it in several weeks before the show.
I only ever use feed/water products that I would normally use. I would never suggest trying something new in a ration or water supply because someone told you it was the thing to do...Try it out for yourself before risking some sort of water additive that potentially could cause a scouring issue, or feed additive. I sometimes add corn oil to my Horses ration to add fat which sometimes adds some sheen to their coats BUT you have to remember adding fat to your ration will change your rations fat% sometimes for the good sometimes for the bad. I start feeding BOSS to my show animals 2 months before show season, not wethers though. BOSS WILL make them look oily but it isn't cheap and has to be added slowly to the ration.
Clipping is an Area/Show specific answer. You should First check if there are any rules about clipping in your 4H show. Then you have to try to Match your animals to the others in the show, kind of hard if you haven't closely watched them before. Some judges prefer closely clipped does, some like them nearly untouched...Best Middle of the road bet, especially with young doelings, is give them an evening up trim so they look flat coated. Trim closely around their "rear privates" and the inside of their rear legs. Trim neatly and closely around their udders. Any "fringes" or cowlicks need to be blended in as best as you can...Trim any long facial hairs and any around the horn bases. That would be a basic BASIC 4H level trim. Some of your doelings may not even need very much work while some older does take Hours to get into shape. Get out there today and give them a practice trim. Use the guard that leaves the hair the longest just to get the feel of it. It will grow back if you mess it up and any evening up you do now will make it easier later. As to people clippers...The idea is to have an even look when you are finished. Horse trimmers, which I use, have a wide head with a big cutting surface. Even with a wide head there are still clipping marks where the cutting paths overlap. With a people clipper you would have lots and LOTS of overlapping paths which would Possibly give you a Not So Smooth look, because of all the clipper marks...But you do what you can With what you Have...1 more thing...If your specific show does not have any clipping requirements...An Under clipped doeling will show better than an Over clipped doeling...JMO...One of these days I will have to start clipping some of my shaggy doelings...If I had your photography skills I would take a few pictures...we shall see how that goes


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

Thanks so much. I know there is a farm in a county north of us that have kids in 4-H, i will email them and I'm sure they would be able to tell me about how the does should be clipped.
Our 4mo old doe has a nice coat, and would be great if all we have to do is trim her up, but her hair is long...I wish her coat was like her dam, because her hair is very short.

I don't think a dog carrier will work for these girls  I don't think I can fit a large one in the back of my SUV, it's hard getting a medium sized crate in there. I figured if they had free roam of the very back they'd be comfortable. I was thinking I could make a pet barrier so they can't jump the backseat...I can just see Daisy jumping so she can sit on my kids lap LOL 
I was thinking I could lay a tarp over the carpet and put a thin piece of OSB cut to fit, and then put some bedding down over that? Think that could work?

I will look into Show Sheen as well! Thanks so much for the help I say it all the time, but it's greatly greatly appreciated.


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## DulmesFamilyBoers

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

We used the people clippers on our 3 month old doelings last summer. Must have clipped them at about 1/2" or maybe longer just to even them out. If we were clipping them short, we would have probably seen more lines, but at this longer length, I thought they looked nice. Worked fine on the little ones, but I plan on getting a nicer clipper this year since we will have to clip more of them.

As for the scrapie tag, In Wisconsin we didn't have to put the scrapie tag in the ear if we tatooed them. Not sure if this is the case everywhere.

If I use the van to transport the goats, I am able to get the larger dog crate in our van when I pull out the middle seat. If you end up putting down a board, maybe you could add 2x4 sides and then put the tarp over it. That will keep the mess contained. I would worry about it running off the edges of the board even with the bedding.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

Thanks so much! Yep have to have the scrapie tag too 

I do have some scrap 2x4's so that might work with the tarp thanks!

I'm debating on what to do for a clipper set. I did find this, and wondered what everyone thought about this set?
http://www.wahlanimalstore.com/product_ ... 079141-100


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## AlaskaBoers

*Re: More questions about getting ready....ok lots of questio*

I think that would work fine! 
I bought a new one last year. Andis Super 2-Speed. LOVE em! but they were spendy!! $!$!$!

Instead of cooking oil, you could use BOSS, or Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. a handful goes a long way.

I use Laser Sheen, makes them, even hairy bucks, smell GREAT. Very shiny.

I've never used anything on their horns or hooves, but that polish, or even oil is a good idea!

on a fun note, my goats are pampered and get to use Tresemme shampoo.


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Clippers look good; one thing is you may go thru lots of batteries. Not having the cord get in the way would be a +.
I used to groom dogs and all dog shampoo is PH balanced for animals. With dogs if you use people shampoo it will give them very dry skin especially if used often (dogs should not be bathed often). Not sure of the PH on a goats skin but I would think horse or dog shampoo would be better but I don't know. :shrug:


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Thanks! I think I'll order a pair in the next week. I do have 3 sets of 4 AA rechargeable batteries. Tresemme hehe...I know some people that use it on their dogs! I do have a bottle of dog shampoo I bought last summer, pretty much a full bottle. 
I will check the local stores for Laser Shine, and see what I can come up with. We have a store here that specializes just in horses and they sell pretty much everything. A lot of farms buy from them when prepping for the fall sales.


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

I sent a inquiry to Wahl for the width of this pair you are looking at. I noticed it says trimmers and want to be sure it isn't narrow. You want ones that are over 1&1/2 inch wide; wider the better. I will post as soon as I hear back from them.


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Ok that clipper is 1&3/4 inch wide the widest they make is the nice Lister ones that are 2&1/4 wide. The Lister even offer a show blade. I am sure they are wonderful and probably the best but are almost $300. If cost is a factor then try out that pair you found as it is better than nothing and if you can upgrade at some point you haven't spent to much on this first pair. I still am hoping to clip some of my girls this weekend and will let you know how it goes.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Wow thanks so much for checking on that! I'd love to have a really nice pair, but $$ is definitely an issue  I still have to get soooo much just to get just to get started and running out of time. We'd only be using the clippers for the 2 doelings, and maybe to clip udders in the fall/next time we have a doe to kid. So we wouldn't need to use them a whole lot.

I know I am going to regret saying this... but the girls have been doing really good on the leash! Now watch...I've said it, tomorrow will be chaos LOL
I am trying to teach my kids to pretend I am the judge, and to watch me. The oldest doeling is the more stubborn one, but she's coming along. My son did real good with her getting her to set up. My oldest daughter's doe is only 2 months old, and she's doing really well IMO, and she set up really well too. She's very easy to work with.

Right now I think the 2nd weekend in June is the target for their first show. Fingers crossed. I keep telling them the first show may be chaotic and very confusing. All they can do is their best, and don't feel pressured to win <we don't have top quality does anyway...>, just get out there do the best they can do, and have fun &&&& learn!!!  
My kids are shy, don't do sports or anything else, so I really really want this to work for them. If they have fun doing it, that matters more to me than prizes, and top quality stock, etc.


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## Squires

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

It has been a long, long time since I was in 4H, but I do remember us taking goats to shows and events in the back of the VW station wagon. Put down plastic sheeting (heavy duty -- maybe agricultural grade is best or a water-proof tarp, and two layers is OK if you want insurance), then put a couple inches of sawdust or shavings to absorb any moisture. On top of that put straw or hay. I am a believer in bedding down animals in massive quantities of edible bedding -- such as good hay -- if they get bored they can eat the bedding and not fuss. Shavings or sawdust can fly around in a moving vehicle, but straw or hay tends to pretty much stay in place (pretty much -- no guarantee).

When we got home from the event, we dragged the plastic sheet, tarp or whatever out of the back of the vehicle and dumped it out in the compost. No problem.

I also seem to recall that it is better to shave the goats several days or WEEKS before a show. Beginners tend to leave track-marks and you don't really want to take a striped goat into the ring (unless that is the goat's natural pattern). :shrug:

Showmanship classes are a lot more fussy than breed classes. If your kids belong to a 4H club, try to set up a fitting and showmanship workshop and invite some more experienced people to show everyone how to do it -- maybe help trim each other's animals, practice leading them in circles, switching sides to give the judge a proper view, etc. It never hurts to practice. 

Good Luck! :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Thanks so much Chris I appreciate it! That's most likely what we'll do! 
As for the workshop idea, that would be GREAT, except my kids are the only ones in our county that are doing goats! Most kids are doing heifers, I think a couple of hogs, maybe? and most are working on the country ham project. I think most of the kids who do animals show dogs and horses <this is horse country....>.

There is a hands on workshop on Sunday...BUT we can't go! The last one was a month ago and we had family down that weekend! Seems they always plan these things when we absolutely can not go! Sunday my kids have first communion at church! We have a party to go to in the afternoon, PLUS between church and party I have a photography gig! It's going to be a chaotic day..... I hope and pray they would have another workshop but just not sure...

I plan on ordering clippers probably on Friday as well as the tattoo kit. Just waiting for a payment to come in, should be here by then  My husband has clipped horses before for top notch sales, so maybe he can help...

I plan on getting serious with grooming/prep after the weekend - then I will have more time and HOPEFULLY the weather will be better. Right now it's just not possible to do anything with them  The ground is completely saturated, and for the past 3 days all it's done is rain and storm


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## Squires

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Keep trying! Fitting a goat may be a closer to fitting a heiffer. The showmanship would be very similar.

Until you get to a workshop, try doing practice with your children and goats at home -- a little every day helps. You play judge and have the kid go in a ring around you, staying out of your line of sight and setting up their goats for you - make it like musical chairs if you want to add some family fun! LOL!

I think it never hurts, btw, to play the radio and unusual sounds for animals that are going to a fair - -so they are not so startled when they get there. Also to have different people touch and inspect them. Maybe if you have friends or relatives visit, you can set up the goats and ask them to run their hands over the goats. Can't hurt.

Use your imagination -- there are ways to prepare on your own. Do the best you can do, and walk with confidence! 

Chris


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - wahl clipper questi*

Thanks so much  The last time we worked with them was on Thurs <weather hasn't been co operating at all since then>. I pretended I was the judge <haha>, and told them to watch me, and showing them how to set up <at least I think we're doing it correctly>. The only video I could find that had does in it <not market wethers!>, they said to stand the doe with her hind legs out, and her front legs slightly in front of her shoulders. Hopefully we can work with them this evening, and I'll get pics of the way I've been showing them to set them up. This year is a learning year 

Here are some pics of the doelings...not great, just some snapshots I took outside a little while ago.

Madison was born on 1-05-11, she's around 50/50+ now. I'm no pro, but I love the width of her shoulders, and she's got firm, wide hips. Her dam is a nubian/boer cross.

BTW, please don't mind how messy she looks, we've had sooo much rain and they were out laying in the backyard so she got dirty....


















Giving me that 'what ya want?' look









She is shedding, especially on her neck near her head, I should have gotten a picture. What's the best way to help get this looking good? Daily grooming of course, but any other tips? Anything noticable besides needing to be clipped?

Here's my daughter's doeling, she was born on 2-23-11 so she just turned 2 months old. 
We're working on getting that one ear straightened out more


















Need to get better pics later... Anyway anything noticable we should be doing please let me know! My husband is used to prepping the sale horses, making them look like a million $$$...but he's not been any help with getting these doelings ready to show in 4-H 

ALSO..... does a milk goiter count against them? Daisy won't be completely weaned, and has a milk goiter...


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## ()relics

*Re: More questions about getting ready - update 4-25*

Both of your girls look really nice....Those ear folds are easy to fix but Do Not subtract points if left as is. If you "fix" them now they may still be scabby or at least hairless for your show...Probably best to just leave them alone until after ....The folds that begin at the head and continue downwards and obstruct the ear canal are the Big Point Shavers, or Actually cull strikes. I have No Experience as to a judge's opinion on a Milk Goiter...I will say: Anything that looks Out of the Ordinary will attract extra judge attention, be that good or bad. I would brush them with a REALLY stiff brush for awhile to make sure all their winter hair is GONE before trying to do much clipping...Unfortunately ,depending on your show date, you may not be able to wait for them to shed it all on their own and may have to clip them twice.


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## Squires

*Re: More questions about getting ready - update 4-25*

One thing about getting old is that, along with forgetting things, we also remember things. I recall reading on a website - -one of the big informative sites put together by a Boer breeder out in the Southwest somewhere -- is that you can use a dog's prong collar on a boer goat (or any goat) and they will behave for you - better than on the chain collar. This man said that he can now show his bucks and they behave very well (prong collar plus practice were necessary in his case). I suspect that this is for breed classes and NOT for showmanship, but not sure. It is a relatively new idea for goats.

If your goats are very flighty or pulling your children around, you can practice with the prong collar at first, and then switch to the chain collar.

The other thing I saw in a couple of books -- in particular in the book "Barnyard in Your Backyard" -- is that Nubian ears (similar to Boer) sometimes get folded up inside the womb and don't always unfold the way they should, so some people make two cardboard tracings a big bigger than the ear, and make an "ear sandwich" or splint -- using surgical tape to hold the cardboard pieces around the ear (masking tape might be OK, but surgical tape is gentle and available in the pharmacy or some livestock first-aide departments). It helps keep the ear in the right position so it will grow out straighter. Do it sooner rather than later, and leave on for a few weeks. That should help the ears -- if you are sure you need it. I have no idea what the standard is for a Boer goat or what the current fashion demands of goats in show these days.

best wishes,
Chris


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## ()relics

*Re: More questions about getting ready - update 4-25*



Squires said:


> ...The other thing I saw in a couple of books -- in particular in the book "Barnyard in Your Backyard" -- is that Nubian ears (similar to Boer) sometimes get folded up inside the womb and don't always unfold the way they should, so some people make two cardboard tracings a big bigger than the ear, and make an "ear sandwich" or splint -- using surgical tape to hold the cardboard pieces around the ear (masking tape might be OK, but surgical tape is gentle and available in the pharmacy or some livestock first-aide departments). It helps keep the ear in the right position so it will grow out straighter. Do it sooner rather than later, and leave on for a few weeks. That should help the ears -- if you are sure you need it.


 There are 3 basic types of folded ears in a long eared goat, mainly boers and nubians.
- The first is a tip fold, illustrated in the above doeling. It is nonhereditary and can be corrected or left alone without deduction in the show ring.
-The second is a fold pependicular to the head starting near the skull and proceeding towards the tip in which The Ear canal is not obstructed. This would be considered a Slight to Serious defect in the show ring. This is also called uterine molding and therefore also not hereditary.
-The third is also a pependicular fold But the ear canal IS obstructed. this is considered a Very Serious Defect in the show ring and would be highly heritable.

The above is taken directly from the SA boer goat standard. The pictured "tip fold" is easily repairable. Best to do it at birth but can be done anytime. Facing the goat,Simply Grab the tip of the ear between your thumb and index finger with the "Fold" positioned about on your index fingers knuckle. Hold on to the kid and Roll the tip of the ear inward or Around your index finger knuckle. The flesh will tear loose and the ear will be left Unfolded, slightly bloody and hairless. Coat it with some sort of livestock topical dressing and wait for it to heal and regrow hair. You want to make sure you COMPLETELY open the folded portion up or you will be Re-doing it in a few weeks. As you can tell doing it at birth is substantially easier. 
The "ear sandwich" method is used to fix the 2 other types of folds BUT remember Fixing a goats phenotype doesn't fix his Genotype


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - update 4-25*

Thanks so much! Her ears were actually folded up worse than that when she was born. We've been using cardboard/duct tape on the tips to try and correct them. We put it on wait for it to fall off give her a 'break' then put it back on. We did have a buckling with a perpendicular fold last summer - he was soooo BIG no wonder his ears were folded! We did the cardboard/duct tape trick and within a few days his ears were just fine 

We weighed the babies on a scale this evening - Madison is right at 50lbs, and Daisy is 35lbs. 
My husband and I were chatting a little while ago, and he wants to see if another doeling is a better choice than Daisy. Personally I think Daisy is a better candidate...But I do love the other doeling - I just think she has too much of a 'kiko' head.... I'll get pics and see what you all think later...she is 20 hours younger than Daisy and is bigger, weighs 40lbs - her twin buckling is the youngest of the Feb kids and he is HUGE - 45lbs!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions about getting ready - update 4-25*

Okay so we were working with them this evening since the weather finally co operated...the sun actually came out! Short lived though...more rain looks to be coming in the next couple of hours 

Anyway, first can you all give me your opinion on this doeling? My son REALLY wants to use her instead of Madison or try to show both. I'll explain why in a minute.
Mia is out of a kiko doe who possibly has dairy mixed in, and by our boer buck. She is 8 weeks old, weighs 40lbs today, 2nd largest & youngest doe of 6 kids born within 36 hours of each other. I was hesitant in consideration of her....but I absolutely ADORE her, she is a pretty girl.

Think she could be a good one for a first time 4-H 10yo? She was on the leash being walked for the first time and did great, and set up like a pro. She's always been a 'poser' though.
If you all think she looks okay, then we'll call and have her registered tomorrow, so I can have the papers by June 1st.

So...here's our lil miss priss....Mia <my 4yo daughter named her I LOVE it!>



























I LOVE her face....


















Please let me know what you all think.

Both of my kids and the doelings....do they look set up okay? 


















Okay...so Madison is walking really well on the leash, but she looks pityfull setting up. Tomorrow we are taking her on the back deck to work with her, but I think she's getting a little crooked in one knee? It could just be the uneven ground we were working on...but she just IMO doesn't look as nice as these younger does when set up... And somehow I only managed to get a couple of photos...









Madison is a lazy lazy girl <seriously>, but she's doing much better on the leash as I said...


















My daughter is doing great with Daisy. They had a great evening, and Daisy is always so easy going 










BTW, my daughter has poison ivy on her face especially on her cheeks so they are swollen and red  



























If we don't actually show Madison that's okay, we plan to keep her for breeding anyway  I want my kids to have fun, but have the best doeling from what we can offer without purchasing...being a homebred is a HUGE deal for all of us 

BTW, Mia is clean teated --- 2 x 2

Thoughts on the girls? I really like how willing and easy the youngsters are to work with....


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

I am not very experienced. I like the doe your daughter has better. The other one seams high in the rump.


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## RPC

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

I like all 3 of the does and I think they are all going to be good to show. It is hard to pick between Mia and Daisy. Why not show all 3 or would one of them be mad if one kid showed 2 and the other only got to show 1? If you look in the last 2 photos with your daughter and daisy. Look at the front legs on the doe. I have never heard of putting the front legs forward. I could be wrong so someone correct me if I am so I can start having my kids do that also. I like them to sit right under the shoulders like in the photos I was talking about. All 3 does do have high rumps but I think it is just because they are growing. Mine seem to have high rumps and level out over time. Also because they have high rumps, and it could just be from uneven ground, if you put their front legs forward it brings their front ends lower to make their rumps higher. I hope that makes since. All in all I think they are doing really well. My kids have not really even worked with theirs too much. Cashmere does not move though when you grap her collar but2 of the others are not bad. Good luck and most of all just have fun. I think that is the most important part of it all. Those ribbons don't last forever but the experiance does.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Thanks so much! I am really confused on how they 'should' be set up. I've seen pictures of them as you were saying Roger, and then the way they are set up in the pictures I posted. I plan on contacting a nearby breeder who specializes in 4-H stock, to ask about what is preferred for clipping...so maybe I'll ask them about setting up the does. And I am having a DUH moment, I guess I could have did an internet search for local breeders websites to see how the does look in the pictures. Main thing is, the girls are super easy to work with right now.

Madison has the higher rump out of all 3, but it looks worse when working with her because she just doesn't want to stand or line up very well. We will keep working with her  My daughter isn't upset if my son shows 2 goats. Sadly I now wish I had registered Madison under my daughter's name because I think she goes better for my daughter....

I totally agree about having fun  I told the kids not to be pressured to win, just go in do your best and have fun. My son tends to get impatient with training so I do have to buckle down on him a bit, he doesn't realize if he gets frustrated because the doe doesn't do what he wants her to do....then she senses that, and will respond just as negatively....


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## RPC

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

When it comes to grooming/shaving the does I am no help. I kind of know how to do the wethers last year we shaved everything from the knees up on the wethers then left the end of the tails but this year I might shave all the does down 6-8 weeks before the fair so I can get rid of their winter coats but let them get some hair back before the show. The wethers I do 2 weeks before the show. That way all the marks from the clippers will be smoothed out. This year we have a goat meeting threw the 4-H goat club in May where they will show us how to groom and shave the goats and it is at one of the boer breeders so I will be able to see how they do it. I am going to try to take lots of notes and pictures and I will try to share them with you. I hope i can stop watching long enough to write some stuff down. Our fair you don't have to have registered animals and you can even put all the animals in all the kids names until you get to the fair incase they decide to switch animals before the fair comes. Too bad you all can't do that.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

I don't understand why they are so picky here in KY  The meeting sounds wonderful, definitely share anything you can, I know myself and others would appreciate it!
I am so upset that every time they have a workshop here, we have something else going on that we absolutely can not work around. I want to take the kids to the hands on clinic on Sunday soooo badly! It's about an hour drive from us, but with the kids First Communion, and me supposed to be working at Rolex 3 day event...there's no way 

Our county fair is I believe...the third week of June, it's one of the earliest fairs in KY. The actual 4-H 'only' show won't be held until July. I know they have an open show at our local fair, not sure if my kids will try that show or one the weekend before, or if they can do both. It's confusing when there is really no local information at all about these shows, just show type <goat, sheep, cattle, etc.>, the date and location....


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Okay I checked a couple of sites late last night, and looks like they are to be set up like Roger said...whew... It won't be hard to do just won't have to move the front legs forward 

I called IBGA and I am going to fax over Mia's registration form and call to make payment, so we should have the registration paper back in about 2- 2 1/2 weeks. It took about 3 weeks to get them back on the other 3 and that was mailing everything in...As long as I can get it before June 1st 

Now to find a vet that won't charge an arm and a leg for a vet certificate....


----------



## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

I show in open breeding stock shows and ABGA and will toss in my two cents.

For county shows, I will often just trim up the scraggly hairs. Give them a nice clean, square chest floor when viewed from front, square off their tails. Leave the tails as long as possible without looking silly. Most judges subscribe to the idea that a long tail = long body and good milker. Trim their faces and necks, blend into their shoulders. Clean up the little swirlies on their legs, and make that nice clean line around the top of their hooves. Depending on the goat, I may blend a nice flat top and clip their bellies. On the little girls, I often don't bother.

I use Pink on them just before I go into the show. It is in a big Pink aerosol can from Dollar General, and costs about $3. It is for ethnic hair care. It makes them shine and smell great. It is similar to Show Sheen or Pink Oil, used by fitters.

I use Purple Oil from Sullivan's on their horns and hooves. It comes in a quart bottle, so I pour a bit in a ziploc and keep a sponge in there. It is always ready to wipe on their horns, then.

As far as setting up-- you want their front legs to be perpendicular to the ground. And their back legs should be perpendicular from their hocks down. When viewed from front or back, the legs should be parallel to each other.

See the second-to-last photo of your daughter with her goat? See how her head is up high? You want your does to look proud. The little doe your son has on the move, in the blue collar, has her head down and looks like she is charging ahead. Encourage the does to take their time and move with grace and pride. No need for speed. This just takes time and practice. I understand they (the children) are shorter in comparison with their goats, but they should practice keeping the does' heads up high.

One last bit about the rump-highness. If the kids get a chance, have them walk the ring a little before show time and see where the low spots and high spots are. Then-- during the show, they need to be very careful to pay attention to where they stop their does. On the profile, it is better to leave a bit of extra space between yourself and the goat in front of you, than to be the "proper" distance away and have your goat's front feet in a divot. They should try to always stop the does with the doe's front feet on a high spot relative to where the hind feet are. I always like to leave more than adequate space between me and the goat ahead, for several reasons. If I need to pull out of line, I want to have room to do so smoothly. Also, if my doe wiggles and I need to re-adjust, I have some space to scoot forward. And, the most annoying, if I have some one crowding me from the rear, I can scoot forward and ask them to stay put.

Good luck!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Thanks so much! Great info!

The doe with the blue collar that my son was walking is Madison. Unfortunately I don't think she's going into a 4-H show ring.... we're getting nowhere with her after weeks of working with her, and she acts like it's a death sentence instead of being 'proud.' The younger does are great, they are trying, and they are so easy to work with. We'll keep working with Madison.....

What we worked on this afternoon..... walking clockwise/counter clockwise, and getting them to remember the goat always stays between the judge/handler. They stopped, set up as best they could. Daisy is super easy to set up, Mia will learn, this is only her 2nd day on the job 

Tomorrow, weather permitting we'll work on this more, and have them square off the does again. They are getting the general idea, but my son still tends to put Mia's front end out, so I took pictures for him to see... 
We'll also bring up some videos on line to see what it's like in a show ring.

We're hoping to attend a goat show late next month to get an idea of what to expect....but it's a bit of a drive.... I think if we can get to their first show early, look around, if they can get into the ring to practice, they will be okay. 
I'd like for my kids to be able to meet with the judge before the show if possible so maybe the judge can help explain how they want them to do things, or do they typically give you an idea of what they want before a show? To me, it looked like in the videos they all pretty much walked the same way, and stopped in the same places until the judge started making cuts?

Okay...just a few from tonight...
Is this better?
My daughter and Daisy









The only thing I don't like about Daisy is her milk goiter, it's not overly huge, but it's there. We don't wean our doelings until about 3 1/2-4 months, so she wouldn't be weaned by first show....









Mia....my son was holding her head because all she wanted to dow as watch me instead of look ahead... LOL









Ma....what is this all about? haha....she's a darling, really 









For clipping.....my problem is definitely going to be figuring out which blade guards to use. These girls don't have long coats like Madison does, but their hair is wavy.

OH --- a bit of good news! I found a local vet that will do the vet certificate.....FOR FREE for 4-H kids! Very awesome! Especially with my budget!


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## RPC

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Your daughter's got it as far as setting Daisy up I like it. With Mia in the photo of him holding her head, Her rear legs need to be back a little more. I would still take Madison, some times they act way different in the show ring. Plus it will be good for your son. That is awesome that you found a vet that will do it for free. Do the kids know that if the judge crosses sides and they need to switch sides so the does are between them and the judge they need to switch infront of the does head not behind the goat. They will see it with the other kids showing but you never go behind the goat. Good luck and I am sure everything will work out fine. I would not worry at all about the milk goiter. They can't dock you for something that comes naturally and goes away on its own.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Thanks so much Roger! My daughter is doing GREAT getting Daisy ready I am so happy! My daughter has ADHD and is very shy, so I think this could be a HUGE confidence builder for her. 
My son definitely needs to practice with set up, and making sure his doe is straight and not standing at an angle.

If we get to work with them tomorrow <stay away bad weather, stay away!>, then I will work with them on moving around their goat to make sure they are never between the goat and the judge.

Madison started out okay this afternoon, then just planted her feet and refused to walk, she was hacking and coughing and basically choking herself as she refused to walk, it was honestly, very pathetic  She doesn't want to walk with her head up, and again the set up issues aren't going well. We've been working with her the longest 

This was the best we could do today....
She won't put her back feet out so she looks really high on the rump...


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## RPC

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Are there any treats she really likes? If so try to have your son hold some in his hand and keep it high in front of her. Not to high to where she wants to jump but at the height u want her head to be. Then slowly as she does things you want give her a treat. Most goats will do anything for food. That is how we broke 2 of our kids last year and how we will break the kids this year. The back legs just take some practice and they are working really hard I can tell. I am proud of them and don't even know them so I am sure you are very proud of you kids. Hopefully they can meet some friends and have fun at the fair.


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Daisy looks fantastic! I believe your daughter is taller than your son, and that gives her an advantage. If he keeps at it, he will have the other girls doing great.

I was going to say the same thing as RPC... break out the cookies! Try those crispy iced oatmeal cookies, or those strawberry wafer cookies. Popcorn, vanilla wafers, animal crackers, or graham crackers work great too. Don't be stingy with the cookies at first, but do make her work for them.

And, some have it and some don't. But... they're kids, your kids are kids, it's 4-H, and it's all about learning. I don't have several dozen head to choose my show string from, either, so I take what I can. Some love it, some tolerate it. They almost ALWAYS do better at the show than at home.

I don't know that I would talk to the judge beforehand... some people can get silly about that. However, often there is a ring steward that will be directing the exhibitors and will not be affecting the judging in anyway, so try to ask him. Be sure to let the people lining up the class know that your kids are new to this and ask to be placed in the middle of the line-- not the end because sometimes the steward will turn the line around or pull from either end. In the middle is safest.

One last bit before I finish my presentation that's due in an hour...lol... Do you have show collars? I use leads on my for training but am sure to practice a bit with the show collar before the show.


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## DulmesFamilyBoers

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Just a quick post because I should really be getting ready for work. :wink: I saw the photo of Mia in your other thread, and I think she looks all together different there. Your son must have set her up better for those photos. My husband and I both really like the way she looks. I'm thinking if this is your son's first experience with showing, it might be good if he doesn't get too frustrated.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Thanks so much! I am definitely proud of them, they are trying so hard. Jessica is making it look easy though! James needs the most practice, he gets a little impatient, and sometimes misses details. I told him to take his time, make sure when he stops his doe, that she is straight and not at an angle before setting her up. Sure hope we get to work with them this afternoon as we won't have much time to work with them again until Monday.

We have offered animal crackers, cheerios, and cheese its crackers which all the goats seem to love, but Madison and the girls won't touch any of them! Maybe something sweeter will entice her! The youngsters are so easy to work with they seem very happy with praise and kisses <hehe>, but I'd definitely love to find something they would like so we can reward them with a treat too.
We have used grain on Madison and that worked okay, we may have to go back to the grain, but we're trying to cut her back a tiny bit, she's getting chunky <her belly is starting to jiggle a bit LOL>.

Thanks for the advice, the only reason I wanted to speak to someone at the show was to let them know my kids are new, plus my daughter has ADHD and can get really shy and intimidated, so we thought if she met someone at the show like a judge, it would help her confidence. 
Middle of the line would be great for them for their first show, fingers crossed!

I am ordering their show collars on Friday when I get more $$ so I can order everything we need at once. I spent all my extra $$ on gas...OMG so tired of the gas prices 

We're training right now with a nylon dog collar/leash, and then I have a weaved rope kind of like what you use for a cheap lead rope, we tie it loosely and it works GREAT, the kids have a better time walking with it.


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

They are doing much better than I did at my first show! I'm so glad that they are working with their goats so well. I have to threaten my sister to go work with her goats... she just isn't motivated until about the week before the show.

Another thing I highly suggest is meeting all the other exhibitors at the fair and see if there is someone there that sort of takes your kids under their wing at the show. I have a couple of people like that at the shows I go to... I don't see them outside of shows and rarely talk with them except for the few times I show with them, but it is nice to have that familiar, friendly face at the shows I go to. Plus they are helpful for answering questions like "ACK! where do I check in?!?!?!"

One last thing and I will be done... check local Craigslist or Freecycle for a big, free mirror. That can be very helpful for the kids, learning to set the goats up. Taking photos and videos are also extremely helpful, but my sister benefited from being able to look up and see how the goat looked immediately after she placed a leg.

All in all, they look fabulous!!!! I know they are going to do great!!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

Thank You again for the great advice! I'll try to get my kids to make some friends  They are VERY shy, but like you I think it will help a great deal.
The mirror idea is a great idea too, I hadn't thought of that - that's why I was taking pictures.

Thanks for the kind comments on the does, they are our sweeties  Mia is out of a kiko doe, by our boer buck, and Daisy is out of a boer/kiko doe by our buck.

Doesn't look like we'll get to work with them today thanks to the nasty weather 

I did get Mia's registration paper faxed over and the fee paid, so we should have her papers back in time


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - considering another doe, opinons page 2*

We went to a 4-H meeting in the county next to us last night, it was a last minute thing that our 4-H leader set up because they talked about show equipment, and my kids need 2 more meetings after this one in order to have enough hours to show.
It was great, informative, and the top was show equipment for goats, YEAY!

First, I had posted months ago that we couldn't show unregistered does...I found out YOU CAN! You can show Market Does! We were going to go this route for the first year just to make sure our kids would like 4-H.... Oh well...we've already registered them, and progressing towards breeding does...

I also found out we don't have to have a new vet certificate before each show, we just need one...unless we feel we need another...
The kids are expected to dress nicely - any color polo shirt, nice jeans <I'm thinking cargo pants for my son?>, and nice shoes or boots - not tennis shoes.

When we go to a show they can walk the show ring before hand, so that's a huge relief 

They also mentioned that when you leave a show you should always wash your goat with an antifungal soap. But I didn't catch the name of the stuff. I'm sure I can just ask for something at one of the local stores.

And....we plan on getting the girls on meat makers feed or a show feed, so I need to try and find some locally....oh fun. They aren't great big and don't eat a whole lot so I'd think one bag would last them a while.

I was told I should probably just give them a full body clip now, and then touch up close to show time, since they are so young.

Use a little vaseline on the horns, and nothing on their feet <because their feet get dirty/dusty from the flooring in the show ring>.

They also use some kind of spray to help clean them up at the show that doesn't require bathing - smells like bananas, but I can't remember the name of the stuff! So I need to find out. They wash their does at home, and then use this stuff to help clean them up when they arrive.

Baby powder - they use this to help whiten a goat up just before the show if need be.

And they use the shampoo that is made for 'white hair' to help get all the stains out.

So....I have lots of things to look into.

The main thing I need to order hopefully this evening is the clippers, and the tattoo kit.

I thought I'd ask one more time about the clippers I mentioned I believe on page 1 or 2, they are battery operated - take 4AA. I have 3 sets of rechargeables that I bought in January.... Do you all think that the clippers will go through the batteries too fast? I did contact the company to get info about this, but probably won't hear back until this afternoon.

Thanks again for all the help, there is just soooo much out there and so much to learn. It's been fun though!


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## ()relics

*Re: More questions - Update 4/29 *

Sounds like you got a hoard of good information from your meeting. I stress giving them a quick clipping ASAP. They all really look nice in body type BUT their uneven hair detracts from their structure. Evening it up now will give it a chance to grow out before your show and hopefully grow out evenly so you may only have afew last minute spots to trim up. I have already started brushing Show Sheen into our show animals coats DAILY. Just remember Too Much Of A Good Thing can be bad as well.....Meaning: You don't want the judge to put their hands on your goat and come away with a handful of show sheen or even worse baby powder...Some judges will automatically slide you into the back of the line...I never use baby powder because it is too hard to remove all of it and I don't want it all over me or the judge in the show ring...Show Sheen works on hooves and horns too. If you let it dry It will not attract dirt or dust but will rather repel it...Everyone has their own ways.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 4/29 *

Thanks so much! I am ordering the clippers this afternoon when I get back home from the horse show. Hopefully it will only take a few days, and we can get them clipped Thurs or Fri. First show we are aiming for is June 6th, by then they will have their hours in for 4-H <2 more meetings..>.

I think she meant use baby powder just to help, especially with any last minute stains, but I totally get what your saying on overdoing it, baby powder is super messy stuff.

I am hoping to get show sheen, and some other things today, including the special grooming comb they showed me, don't know what it's called, but I'm sure I'll find it either in store or online...

She also showed a tiny little square brush that they use to clean the feet/between the toes, again they/I don't know what it's called, but I remember what it looks like, so hoping to find it as well, unless you know of a better way to get the feet clean?

I think the hardest thing to possibly find locally is a show feed...There are people that show in the county north of us, so maybe I'll get lucky there...They have a TSC, so I may stop in since it's close to where I will be this morning and see what they have. Might be able to get a lot of my stuff there


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - Update 4/29 *

We keep a tote stocked with last-minute touch up stuff. (It's actually my tote for bathroom stuff during the school year; doubles as a goat-show tote during the summer...lol!)

In it we have:

Pink for last minute shine
Puple oil, for last minute touch-ups on horns
A scotch comb for last minute fluff-ups or smooth-downs
An extra collar, just in case
Baby wipes, for last minute spots or boogers or dirt on kids (human) faces
And some cookies for when we come out of the ring.

Also, not sure what collars you are looking at, but if they are similar to these:
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/show-go ... /cn/33083/

I HIGHLY suggest thatt you buy double-ended snaps to clip across the back of the goat's neck, from ring to ring. Hard to explain... but basically, the collar will not slip over the goat's head with this. My sister won't show with out hers... she keeps it in her back pocket at all the shows.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 4/29 *

Okay after a CRAZY weekend....I went to the TSC near the feed store...guess what? NO SHOW COLLARS or anything what I need...figures! I did pick up a bottle of Satin Sheen though...I hope it will be okay?

I went to Jeffers.com to order and they had the collars on backorder YIKES! I did call in to place my order/ask a few questions about the order, and they had '1' collar pop up in inventory...so they will take turns practicing with that one until the other one comes in and we get it.

This is what I ordered, please tell me if I've made any mistakes...

Brush
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product ... &camid=LIV

Scotch comb - coarse
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product ... &camid=LIV

tattoo kit
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product ... &camid=LIV

Then 2 of the show collars...

Satin Sheen.... and instead of getting show feed, I think we'll just stick with the regular feed, add a handful of BOSS <they do love this stuff but ran out of it>, and some corn oil.

I'm going to get 'human' clippers when I get over to the store....hopefully they work just fine  Once we get them a good body clip, hopefully all we have to do is just trim/touch up later


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Everything looks good! I've never used the Satin Sheen but I would bet it'll be perfect. Looks like you're set once the other collar comes in!

As far as the feed... I think that's what we are going to end up doing. BOSS makes a huge difference, in my opinion. They get sleek and shiny and it just seems to round out the feed.

Good luck and keep us updated!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Thanks again for all of your help GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! The kids are so excited! We had our 4-H meeting last night, and got the info on our local show. Our fair is June 11-18th, but the 4-H kids will do a 4-H specific show in late July. They have to show in at least one district show, and we're hoping the June 6th show will be the first one they go to.

There will be an open show at the fair, and I think they want to show in it as well. Of course it figures that their 4-H meeting on June 7th is about showmanship - hands on so they want the kids to bring their animals. I think they will be fine for the June 6th show, and then the showmanship class will help even more.

I found some BOSS today, so we'll start feeding them a handful each. Plus we're pulling the babies at feeding time and feeding them seperate from the others and adding in some corn oil, not much just a tiny bit. They also get beet pulp added in since I have some on hand that I was using to help keep some weight on my does during the 'heavier' nursing times.

My husband brought home a little bit of the really good horse shampoo they use at work, and I bought a clipper set, so we should be good to go I hope! 

I was wondering though.... The girl at the 4-H meeting from last week in the neighboring county said she uses some little brush to clean the dirt from between the toes....

What does everyone here use to clean between the toes?

My husband brought home some hoof polish, could we use some of it on the horns to help keep them looking nice? I'm kind of at my 'budget' for spending any more $$ until I get some payments coming in.


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Glad things are getting pulled together. I would think the hoof polish could be used on the horns and have the same effect.


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

As far as the hooves... I use the brush on the back of the clunky plastic hoof picks. Works fantastically because of the handle... you probably have one laying around already!
The hoof polish should be fine... remember, vaseline and cooking oil work too!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Thanks! yep I do have one of those hoof picks, use it all the time! I do plan on getting vaseline, or maybe even use the can of canola oil spray I have up in the cabinet, hehe!!! Hubby can get a few things here and there, so we've accumulated the hoof paint, some kind of shampoo that's really good <but I think it stinks?>. I will look for 'Pink' when I go into town to get some baby wipes and a toothbrush for tattooing.

I did want the Scotch 'coarse' brush right? Just want to make sure before we open the package. I read somewhere that coarse, but wonder if we needed the fine brush instead? We got everything today from Jeffers, except the 2nd show collar which we'll get in a week <back ordered>.

I'm thinking we'll wash & clip tomorrow and tattoo and tag on Sunday.

I'm getting ready to request info on their first show 

We don't have a drench gun.... if the girls won't drink water but look a little sunken in before a show, can we drench them with a large syringe? If I have the extra $$ I'll get a drench gun, but just in case.. We have other things we need before I can worry about a drench gun. And trying to stick to the budget I laid out for this.... Especially if my husband goes through with something he's had in his mindset! <there is a house and a lot coming up for auction just up the road from us.....yeah...heh>.


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

I use a coarse scotch comb... never used a different one on the goats so I am not sure.

As far as tattooing, there are good sites out there that outline it well. I will say this: A good location for the tag is more important that exactly where that tattoo goes! Basically, you can't put the tag through the tattoo, and it is far better for the tag to be higher up on the ear than the tattoo. So... the tattoo can go near the end of the ear, and the tag should go up near eye-level.

I don't use a drench gun on any of our goats because drenching isn't allowed at our fairs. A large syringe works well, that's what we use at home for meds or fluids for ill goats.

If we have does who don't look as "full" as we would like on the day of the show, I feed them a good big handful of hay. In fact, we never withold hay for the does at the shows unless they start looking absolutely ENORMOUS due to lack of other things to do there... some tend to eat and eat and eat and eat and eat and eat and practically blow up.

I know the budget thing... no fun. Two years ago I splurged on a trimming stand and big clippers from Premier. Those two items are my babies... they litterally stay in my room (lol!) but they were totally worth the cost. I scrimped pennies for a couple years to be able to get them. This year I have NO extra money, so any necessities have to wait until I get some cash from my hoof trimming side-jobs.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Thanks so much! Great advice for the tattoing/tagging! Drench guns are allowed here, but I just don't see them necessary. I do have a large syringe, and like you I use syringes for everything.

Yeah budgets are no fun! But I had to give up my regular income to be a stay at home mom, which I love! I wasn't able to be home with my first two kids, so it's been a blessing to be there every day for my youngest. BUT, she'll start pre school this fall, so I'll be thinking of something I can do when she starts kindergarden....The photography thing is fun, but it's not always a reliable income.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

I found 'PINK' at the dollar store. Just spray some on? Is it real oily?

I went out to experiment clipping with our oldest doe - she is a HAIRY MESS....not kidding! I shaved her legs, started on the front right, and of course it started pouring rain! There was NOTHING on the radar when I started...FIGURES!!! LOL I experimented with the blade guard sizes on her body, just on one side. I think the two doelings we plan to show will be much easier, since they aren't as hairy as the one I experimented on today.

I'll have to finish her up tomorrow most likely as I have to start dinner soon. I think we're going to attempt tattooing and putting scrapie tags in this afternoon so we can get that out of the way. We have 7 kids that need scrapie, and 4 does that we'll tattoo. Of course we'll do the ones that aren't for 4-H first, heh....

I 'think' my husband might know how to clip, so he can help me clip the 4-H girls. This is the part I dread more than tattoo/scrapie!


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Experiment with the Pink now... I usually spray it on the brush and then brush the goat. You can also spray it over the goat to get extra shine. It is oily, so just work with it a little until you figure it out. Don't just blast them with it...lol.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/02*

Sunday my husband clipped my daughters doe, and this evening I nearly finished up my son's doe <the one who has the injured ear>. I am so happy with the side I was able to finish, not bad for my first real try since I don't count the other doe I did <her hair was THICK and LONG and super hard to cut>. 
We ran out of time/daylight, I was able to get one side done, and just need to do legs on one side, finish the belly, touch up the rear end/tail and head.

My girls all look so funny...not used to seeing any of our goats clipped, hehe!!

I will experiment with Pink tomorrow after I am able to finish up this doe, and I'll also use Satin Shine on the other girls. I want to get their feet nice and clean and see about polishing their horns too  It's fun, and so far they are very patient.

When I was clipping Mia's hair tonight...it was hilarious...when I'd get near her shoulders...she'd look down and watch the hair falling on the ground...her expression was priceless LOL

We have to have the KUIP tag put on by KY state officials on Saturday....that will be the girls first experience leaving home...OMG I can only imagine LOL

I am going to call the local lumber yard and see if I can get some shavings. I've got some scrap plywood, and a tarp, so I can put the sawdust on that and then some bedding over the top of it all....It'll be a decent drive....We're taking all 3 does, even if the one doesn't show...we aren't giving up on her yet though...especially since the other doe has the injured ear...

Anything I need to do to prepare them for their first trip away from home? I'll take water and a water bucket with us, and a little bit of hay. We'll be leaving around 12-12:30pm and not sure what time we'll get home. It's about a 45 minute drive maybe longer since I don't plan on taking the interstate. They will each have a leash & collar. 
My kids are excited about taking them to their first 'thing' as I call it LOL I told them be prepared for chaos! I'm not worried about the trip there...I am worried about what it's gonna be like when we get them there LOL


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## liz

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

I have no experience with showing but I want to wish you and your son and daughter GOOD LUCK....And most of all HAVE FUN :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

Your kids will do great! Have lots of fun. :hi5:


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

Thanks so much Liz and Logan! We're really excited. I am excited just to see my kids excited!  I'll have to have my kids pose their does for some pictures of their first 'haircuts' hehe..... My son couldn't believe the difference in his doe after she was clipped. 
We call them the three goatmiga's haha....they get along really great. I'm hoping the doe my son has problems with will do well on Saturday, this will be a huge test for her... <doesn't want to walk on the leash 1/2 to 3/4 of the time......>


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

I sprayed some PINK on our oldest doeling yesterday afternoon. LOVE IT! It smells GREAT and doesn't make my hands feel real slippery when I touch her after it dries. My kids kept going over and smelling her all evening long...LOL!!!!

We don't have to have them tagged by the state on Saturday, BUT we do have to take them there to get their health certificate since the vet that was going to do it backed out <the woman in the office said he didn't realize I was talking about goats....GOOD GRIEF!>. So thank goodness there will be a vet at the tagging site doing health certificates!

My next question is.... We want to wash the girls so they are clean on Saturday. I think this will be good practice for them since they've never had a bath.
And better so when the vet checks them over, their coat/skin is clean.
Should I just wash them, towl dry and turn them loose? We'll have to do it tomorrow afternoon most likely as rain is set to move in and Saturday morning may be a rainy one. I can turn them out into our backyard so they don't go over and lay in the dirt by the barn where the others like to lay....
They will be stalled at night....

I just have to remind myself to take a scrapie tag for the doe that injured her ear! I wrote a note to myself and have it on my desk, BUT...if you all saw my desk....OMG it's such a huge mess with papers everywhere!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

Well we need all the prayers we can get....cause we're loading the 3 doelings up tomorrow and taking a long drive to have a vet look over them for their health certificate...

We are also weaning these girls, today was the first day they were not allowed to be with mama, after seperating them for a few nights. Needless to say...they are kinda wacky right now, heh.... We think weaning them will help with some of the training issues we've been having - if they aren't trying to get back to mama/stressing about getting to mama, then maybe they will be easier to work with. One of the doelings who was walking on the leash the best, is giving my daughter huge problems the last 2 days she worked with her. I told her there will be good days, and there will be bad days.
So hopefully once they get used to this new change in their lives, we'll hopefully get more positive training time in, and when they do go to their first show...they won't be freaking out looking for mama, instead they will be bonding with each other and get to stay together unless they are in the ring.

Tomorrow I have to put something down to protect the carpet in my SUV....and try to load them...heh.... This is gonna be INTERESTING....My kids will be in the backseat to help keep them calm.

Might need to pack a video camera...hehe.....


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - Update 5/09*

We're leaving in about an hour and a half...This is going to be real interesting. I hope the girls won't be too 'crazy' in the back of the SUV. I know they are going to cry/be loud, but I hope they don't jump around as I'd like to not have to tie them.

Oh and on top of all that... we can not find one of the collars! SO... looks like we will have to make a pit stop on the way so I can pick up another collar 

AND....it's raining! They are in their stall, but still...rainy days just make it kinda lousy!


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Well I prepared myself for chaos.

They were as quiet as a mouse! I couldn't believe it! Not from these silly girls anyway!

The health check wasn't what I expected either. All we did was drive through a barn where the vet was set up, he glanced over one of the girls, looked at the other two just to see how many I had, then we did the paperwork. Nobody told me I needed to bring the registration papers, but they have their tattoo/scrapie so that worked. WHEW. I don't have the registration paper yet on one of the doelings, should have it any day now.

The kids were starving <so they think> we stopped at McDonalds <BLEH!> on the way home, and it was hysterical...their noses went up sniffing the air, and the curiosity....my kids tried to feed them a french fry, but they really weren't into eating anything. I told them that's good, cause I don't need goats hollering for fast <junk> food everytime they go out...hehe..

We got home...the girls saw where they were but didn't want to get out. So we got the first two out and they dragged us to the back yard. Turn around, my daughter has her doe out <Daisy>...she took one look around, and jumped back in the SUV.....OMG LOL!!!!!! She did NOT want to come out, so I had to pick her up and get her out, then she decided she wanted to be with the others.

I WISH there was a place we could take them so we could get them out, walk them around a few times, etc. just to get them used to being somewhere unfamiliar. Not sure if I could do that at a vacant shopping center parking lot?

They do have the 4-H meeting on June 7th that they have to bring the goats for hands on showmanship help....

Getting them to/from isn't an issue now...but I can just see them planting their feet and refusing to walk....heh....Oh the fun!

Oh and their new nickname is 'The Three GoatAmigas!'


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## GoatGirlMO

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

You should be able to take them to a state park or something similar... most places around here allow goats where ever dogs are allowed... although some places (stores, mostly) don't approve because they are livestock and we aren't allowed to let the goats eat anything at parks (it's illegal to graze livestock on state park land). You just have to try and see if you get tossed out...lol. Our fairgrounds are owned by the city and are considered a park, so we have full access to the rings, barns, arena, etc. at all times. It's very, very nice. The park was originally a TB training facility, so we have a small-ish track (it looks huge to me, but I'm positive it's not really a big track.) Anyway, part of it is still turf, part is asphalt. We can take the animals on the track to run as long as we clean up after them. See if the local saddle clubs will let you use their grounds.

Our Lamancha doe, Fantasia, L-O-V-E-S to go for rides. She will hop in any open car door, and gets in the trailer when she can. She is a ham, though, and would choose to be at the fair every day of the year if she could.


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## liz

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

It certainly sounds as though your day went very well!! It can only get better with your girls from here!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Thanks! I'm really happy with how they traveled! They surprised me greatly 

I will look into the park idea! I don't know of any state parks here, but there are city/county owned parks around. I think it would be very good for them to get away from familiar. 
I don't know that the horse facilities will allow it  They are kinda picky around here. BUT...
I wonder if the horse track would allow us to bring them there! They have 40 something barns, and each barn has 2 walking rings on each side of it <they have major horse sales here>. If the lower barns are empty...and since we have a health certificate, i wonder if they'd allow it. I'll have to give them a call on Monday <kids don't have school on Tues! Weather permitting...!>

I'm thinking about getting a dog no pull harness to help with training <and for training any stubborn brats in the future  >. I used one on a German Shepherd I had years ago and it worked great. I used a rope <lead rope material>, fixed it similar to the no pull and it worked great on the girls getting them to/from the backyard to the barn. It didn't hurt, and they weren't choking themselves or laying down protesting! I posted about it in the frenzy section.

BTW, our goats are not used to other people...So the more people we can get them around, the better. We had family visit for a weekend in March, otherwise nobody really messes with them. But they do love people and are friendly.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

No need to contact the horse track... I found out today from the 4-H leader that we can take the goats over to the fairgrounds and walk them 

So...weather permitting sometime tomorrow we'll go over and try to walk them...notice I said 'try' haha....I can see them NOT wanting to walk.
It's supposed to be even colder tomorrow than it was today - low 50s <YUCK!!!!>, but as long as it doesn't rain....

Fingers crossed!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Well we'll be packing up and going to the fairgrounds as much as we can! We took the girls there for about a half hour just to get them away from home, and OMG they LOVED IT! They were dragging us around on the leash...LOL We started out by just walking around one of the grassy rings/paddock, letting them stop and graze here and there. Then we walked them back up behind the livestock barn.
They walked the best on the show collar in circles on the roadway behind the livestock barn. It was cold though so setting up didn't go all that great as the poor girls were shivering! We would have stayed longer if it wasn't so cold and rainy. 
We had the coldest May 17th on record today! it was only 51, but sure felt colder with the rain 

Looks like we may go again on Saturday  It'll be in the 70s/80s by the weekend...WHEW!


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Its great that the girls did so well!
Hopefully you will get that nice weather this weekend!


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/14 Think I need to pack tylenol LOL*

Okay, so I am back with my questions!

So, there is a 4th doeling my kids want to try and show for fun at the fairs, I talked about her in a 4-H post. She's a dark red boer/nubian. Well when I clipped her a few weeks ago, her coat has no shine, kinda feels like she hasn't shed out? But I think that's 'just her.' Her hair is totally different from the white boer girls, her hair is softer and again doesn't glisten. 
Any ideas what we can do to help bring out some shine? I've used Satin Sheen on her a couple of times, she's getting lots of BOSS in her grain. I can't give her any kind of oils to add weight and shine because the smallest amount really seems to upset her stomach.

I figured I'd ask here if anyone had any ideas. She's also got a thinner build, so I'm going to buy some good feed to mix in with their regular feed. I don't want to get too extreme or anything, but IMO this is more of a how to groom lesson for us 

Oh - and before I forget....

How long before we plan to leave should we bathe a doe? I've been wondering about this. Thinking we might have a practice tomorrow or Monday before taking them over to the park... they have a showmanship class for their next 4-H meeting where they have to bring their animals on June 7th, so we also want to be ready for that


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## freedomstarfarm

*Re: More questions - 5/28 grooming question*

I give my horse Wheat Germ Oil. Works great for him but haven't tried it for the goats.


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/28 grooming question*

Thanks I'll look into it! We did clip her again this evening, put on some satin sheen, and she looked a lot better than she did after her first clipping. I can't get over how LIGHT she is, because typically she is DARK red like her mama...


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## HoosierShadow

*Re: More questions - 5/28 grooming question*

My kids had their 4-H meeting this evening on showmanship. All the kids were supposed to bring their project animals, but I guess most had already gotten their hours as many of the kids weren't there. The only animals was our goats and a lamb! It was hysterical though...my son's oldest doe struck her best pose ever watching that lamb when it first came in. OMG it was sooo funny because she was freaked out, yet his other doe who my 4yo was holding, Mischief was trying to go over and sniff the lamb.. my daughters doe could have cared less because the barn was so hot we were doing the meeting between the barns in the shade...and she was happily munching away on grass!

It was great that kids with experience in the ring could help give pointers. Nobody had experience with goats, so they weren't sure on bracing, etc. so I am glad I knew that breeding does don't need to be braced, just set up...
I don't know 'ring talk' so my kids were a bit confused at first on what the practice judge wanted, and they helped them get through it. My daughters doe was making sounds of utter death! She just didn't want to co operate if she was on the front end, and sometimes anywhere else for that matter, but not all the time, she stood very well and walked well a few times. She would sound like you were choking the life out of her <even though she wasn't choking just making noise>, and laying down not wanting to get up and walk. My daughter did good by not getting frustrated.
My sons does did very well especially Madison <YEAY!!! she's the one we had a LOT of trouble with before and my son didn't want to show her>.

The girl who has experience in the ring with sheep told my daughter to work with walking her goat 30 minutes every day on a chain or show collar. She also recommended alfalfa treats, so I was going to see what the local horse store has since they have all kinds of goodies. Oh, and I am usually the one that feeds Madison and Daisy while the kids take turns feeding Mischief <she eats seperate because she eats sooooo sloooooow>, so the girl told me to make sure the kids are feeding their own goats every day, hold the feed if they can so we're doing that, mostly to help my daughter and her brat 

So anyway, we will see what happens. Their first show is in 10 days.


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## HoosierShadow

Well after my billion questions...hehe... The kids first show is tomorrow! Hopefully everything goes smoothly and they have a great time! They are doing the best they can with their goats, and I warned them not to expect too much, BUT, to expect their goats to possibly be on their toes since they've never seen other goats before <the only thing outside of a random small dog at the restaurant next door...and deer is a lamb...that's it LOL>.
I never heard if they have pens set up that we can use while we are there, but I am assuming so. Check in is at 12:30 so I hope to get there about noon. 
The kids are getting up at 7:30am to feed, eat breakfast, we have to bath 2 girls after that, get everything loaded up, should be fun  
If they like it and feel confident, then they can show again in the county north of us on Tues. I think it'll be a bit bigger of a show than our county's show.


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## Dodge 'Em

Tell them good luck, and I hope they have fun!


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## liz

I'm sure they will do very well!!! Good Luck and I think I'm safe in saying that we do expect to see pics!


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## GotmygoatMTJ

Good luck! You may want to get there before noon though, just incase you have some last minute touch ups you want to do on the girls!
Showing is so much fun. I remember it well. The ribbons are my favorite part--aside from all the people there that you can talk to about GOATS. Haha!
Tell all the kiddies(goat and human) I said good luck!


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks!  I had a sleepless night, I don't know why? But I guess I am kind of glad because I woke up at 5:30am! Looked at radar and saw rain/storms to our west. Hubby got up for work, and I checked again at 6:30am and they were about an hour away. We grabbed the two girls that needed a bath, got them washed, got the back of the SUV ready for them <one day I might get a trailer LOL>, got them dry, bedded down their stall, feed in the feeder then it started sprinkling...WHEW...If we had waited until the alarm went off at 7:30am, and got started at 8am we would be getting soaked to the bone too! it's pouring rain and thundering/lightning a bit.
Sadly looks like it'll last another hour or two, and more behind it  But we 'might' get a break about the time we have to leave. 
PRAYING the girls don't get dirty! I am packing a spray bottle with water/conditioner and I have some handy little towels for touch ups, so hopefully we won't need any drastic touch ups. 
We'll probably be leaving about 11am, the fairground is about 15 minutes away so it's not too far, but I have no idea where we have to park, check in, etc. So this should be interesting!


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