# Doe rejecting triplets



## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

this is a new one for me. New goat to me but second freshening according to previous owner who I am still in contact with. She had triplets, cleaned them herself and I kept them up together for a week which is my usual protocol. Yesterday I hear her three crying. They are all in same pasture but she is ignoring them. All of my goats come when I call so I called and they all came including her. She wouldn’t let them nurse. I put her back in stable with her triplets. I checked her bag. Not overly full and I can express from both sides. Watched for a while and every time they try to nurse she walks. Decide I will leave them for the night. Today after church go to assess the situation. They are climbing on her. She gets us and they immediately try to nurse and she walks off. I tie her and express both sides. I have the busted knuckles to show for it. While I have her tied I try getting her to let them nurse but she wants no part of it. I can bottle feed. I’ve done it before. I’ve just never had one let them nurse for two weeks and then quit. Ideas????


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I had a doe who would allow nursing for a few weeks then start rejecting. She never got over that and I eventually sold her (full disclosure) to someone who was fine with having bottle babies because she didn't want dam raised kids anyway. She wanted to sell bottle babies and keep all the milk for herself.

That said, I have read how a calcium deficiency causes a lack of interest in mothering. What minerals are you giving?

You can try to tie her legs on the milk stand several times a day and let the kids eat and perhaps she'll "get it".

Good luck.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Thanks! Just fed them their first bottles. They each ate 6 ounces. Soon as my husband and I put them down she let them nurse for maybe 30 seconds. 

All my goats have free access to loose minerals so don’t see that being a problem. 

I had tied tying her earlier today. 

Guess she will be for sale. I prefer dam raised babies. 

Thanks for the advice!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

jdragr said:


> All my goats have free access to loose minerals so don't see that being a problem.


Yes but do you happen to know the brand? Just because they have loose minerals does not necessarily mean they are quality, and to the standards you need.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did she have twins last time? Did she nurse her kids last time? This is why I don't like having more than twins. You get 3 or 4 kids fighting over the udder and then mom hurts and doesn't want them to nurse. Another option is to get one kid on a bottle and sell it. See if she goes back to nursing just fine with twins.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Yes but do you happen to know the brand? Just because they have loose minerals does not necessarily mean they are quality, and to the standards you need.


Bought at my local coop. Don't remember the name but it is on the "good" list.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> Did she have twins last time? Did she nurse her kids last time? This is why I don't like having more than twins. You get 3 or 4 kids fighting over the udder and then mom hurts and doesn't want them to nurse. Another option is to get one kid on a bottle and sell it. See if she goes back to nursing just fine with twins.


Yes twins last time but I wasn't her owner. Previous owner said she was a good mom. I'm going to supplement all for now and see if I can sell for bottle babies. I wasn't planning on keeping any of these.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

jdragr said:


> They each ate 6 ounces.


I'd give each kid a dose of Probios. That's a lot all at once if they hadn't been getting enough and you don't want Overeater's Disease. They must have been hungry.

What did you feed them? If you milk the dam to feed them, they will still smell like her and prevent further rejection. There is a benefit to them still being "mothered" even if they aren't being nursed. Mothers are how kids learn how to browse, what to be alarmed by, how to negotiate their place in the herd, etc.

I'd consider giving her some alfalfa pellets on the stand to keep her production up and raise her calcium level, even though you are doing your best to provide minerals. Gestating Triplets and now producing milk can really sock it to a mom.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

mariarose said:


> I'd give each kid a dose of Probios. That's a lot all at once if they hadn't been getting enough and you don't want Overeater's Disease. They must have been hungry.
> 
> What did you feed them? If you milk the dam to feed them, they will still smell like her and prevent further rejection. There is a benefit to them still being "mothered" even if they aren't being nursed. Mothers are how kids learn how to browse, what to be alarmed by, how to negotiate their place in the herd, etc.
> 
> I'd consider giving her some alfalfa pellets on the stand to keep her production up and raise her calcium level, even though you are doing your best to provide minerals. Gestating Triplets and now producing milk can really sock it to a mom.


I agree they were hungry. I wasn't expecting them to eat that much.

Dumor Goat kid replacement. I've used it before. I know some make their own. I never have. They are still with their mom. I won't pull them.

Thanks for the advice!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

jdragr said:


> see if I can sell for bottle babies. I wasn't planning on keeping any of these.


We have a "Goats For Sale" forum here on TGS.

It doesn't sound like she's a congenitally poor mother like my doe was. I wonder if she just simply got engorged and it hurt for them to nurse her??? In my herd, around 2 weeks is when the milk pours...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

jdragr said:


> Dumor Goat kid replacement. I've used it before.


In that case, I do still recommend Probios.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

mariarose said:


> We have a "Goats For Sale" forum here on TGS.
> 
> It doesn't sound like she's a congenitally poor mother like my doe was. I wonder if she just simply got engorged and it hurt for them to nurse her??? In my herd, around 2 weeks is when the milk pours...


I wondered the same thing but her bag is actually smaller than it was. And I tried milking out some to see if it would help.

Every time I think I have learned everything something else comes up. Got to love goats!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

jdragr said:


> I wondered the same thing but her bag is actually smaller than it was.


That doesn't sound right... Have you taken her temp? Did you see her deliver the placenta(s)? Do you know how to check for a uterine infection?

I had a doe once get a uterine infection. She didn't produce well, had a fever, didn't really feel like caring for demanding babies... I got her some simple medical care and it was a 180 degree turnaround!


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

mariarose said:


> That doesn't sound right... Have you taken her temp? Did you see her deliver the placenta(s)? Do you know how to check for a uterine infection?
> 
> I had a doe once get a uterine infection. She didn't produce well, had a fever, didn't really feel like caring for demanding babies... I got her some simple medical care and it was a 180 degree turnaround!


Yes saw her deliver placentas. Don't know how to check for uterine infection. Do know how to take temp and will do that.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Good advice. May I add that the teats might be sore from kids' teeth?


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Trollmor said:


> Good advice. May I add that the teats might be sore from kids' teeth?


As someone who nursed her babies I thought the same thing. Maybe if we supplement all will be ok.


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## Island Milker (Dec 11, 2018)

If this was me, i would be considering taking a kid out of the mix. maybe 3 is to many for her?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

jdragr said:


> Don't know how to check for uterine infection. Do know how to take temp and will do that.


Have you a temp yet? Less milk when you are trying to supply triplets isn't right, not when the trips are so hungry.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All very good advice.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Island Milker said:


> maybe 3 is to many for her?


That is very seldom seen. Triplets normally take turns sucking from the two teats.

Have you got a temp? That is a very important clue. If urine infection is suspected, you may take an urine sample, if this occurs, I can tell you the easiest way to do it.

I like your photo with mother and triplets. They seem to get along well, but is she maybe a bit tired? That is also a clue!


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Sorry I haven’t replied. Been crazy day. No temp. Weirdest thing I have seen. Sometimes she will let them nurse but only for a second. Tonight she doesn’t want anything to do with them as far as nursing. She will call to them and they will come to nurse but then she walks off. when I go to check on them they are all snuggled together. I’m just going to keep them up together for now.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I suspect her teats hurt.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Jup, it seems like hurting teats. What do they look like? Does she allow you to milk?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You need to give us her temperature so we know about infection.

If not using her milk it when you are bottle feeding it could be adding to further rejection.

And check her teats/udder for cuts/sores/engorgement


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

I posted above no temp. I have only bottle fed the one time because they have not been crying and because I have been able to see them nurse although briefly. All 3 are their bouncy self. 

My son in law is a cattle farmer. He already had me check for cuts and sores. She’s not engorged. I can express out both sides. Teats look normal and no fever in her bag. 

I think she has a case of oh my goodness there are 3 of them.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Teats can be sore without seeing anything. Think about 3 mouths fighting over 2 teats. Think about 3 goats punching at her udder.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

ksalvagno said:


> Teats can be sore without seeing anything. Think about 3 mouths fighting over 2 teats. Think about 3 goats punching at her udder.


I agree completely. Just not sure what to do for sore teats.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Give her a dose of banamine. 1cc per 100lbs injected subcutaneously. With pain management she should settle down.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

We know you posted you don't have a temp yet. We are asking you to take one so we know if she has a fever or not. A goat has a fever if the temp is over 103.5. I don't like to see a temp over 103 or below 101.5.


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

jdragr said:


> I agree they were hungry. I wasn't expecting them to eat that much.
> 
> Dumor Goat kid replacement. I've used it before. I know some make their own. I never have. They are still with their mom. I won't pull them.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!


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## Debra P (May 8, 2019)

Just a THOUGHT, I have a gorgeous Nubian who had triplets! She not only REFUSED to feed them but if I weren't right there all 3 wouldn't have made it! She REFUSED to have ANYTHING to do with her babies. As she had them I'd put them up to her nose shed turn her head. We had to get the colostrum so we milked her BUT YOU WOULD THI6WE WERE KILLING HER! She kicked so hard I THOUGHT she was GOING to break her leg! The very best milk you could give then is just cows milk. I know nobody else will understand but I've been on every goat page on Facebook. Every single admintrator even the emergency goat page says cows milk causes less problems like scours. We boa new plastic trash can, turned it upside down and cut a hole in the top for the triplets. Onxy wanted nothing to do with her babies GOING near her udder but I was hoping theyd still bond. They would have their bottles and crawl into the upside down garbage can...if course it was February and cold. Even though she REFUSED to allow them to nurse, they did end up bonding. This in Onxy with her little one Gidget


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the others.

Pull one of the kids and bottle feed, if she cannot handle 3 or doesn't want to. If she acts better with, 2 that may help, if that is the issue.

I also would milk her out some before allowing her kids to nurse. Tie her up if you have to and tie up one back leg if she is being bad.
Do as mentioned, give banamine as needed, but can be given up to 4 days safely, 1 x a day.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I agree with the others.
> 
> Pull one of the kids and bottle feed, if she cannot handle 3 or doesn't want to. If she acts better with, 2 that may help, if that is the issue.
> 
> ...


Banamine should be used no more frequently than every 12 hours (so yes, 1x day), just to add, as it can cause stomach ulcers.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

mariarose said:


> We know you posted you don't have a temp yet. We are asking you to take one so we know if she has a fever or not. A goat has a fever if the temp is over 103.5. I don't like to see a temp over 103 or below 101.5.


No when I said no temp I meant she didn't have a fever. Sorry for the confusion.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Debra P said:


> Just a THOUGHT, I have a gorgeous Nubian who had triplets! She not only REFUSED to feed them but if I weren't right there all 3 wouldn't have made it! She REFUSED to have ANYTHING to do with her babies. As she had them I'd put them up to her nose shed turn her head. We had to get the colostrum so we milked her BUT YOU WOULD THI6WE WERE KILLING HER! She kicked so hard I THOUGHT she was GOING to break her leg! The very best milk you could give then is just cows milk. I know nobody else will understand but I've been on every goat page on Facebook. Every single admintrator even the emergency goat page says cows milk causes less problems like scours. We boa new plastic trash can, turned it upside down and cut a hole in the top for the triplets. Onxy wanted nothing to do with her babies GOING near her udder but I was hoping theyd still bond. They would have their bottles and crawl into the upside down garbage can...if course it was February and cold. Even though she REFUSED to allow them to nurse, they did end up bonding. This in Onxy with her little one Gidget


She is snuggling with hers fine. And I'm sure she is letting them nurse some because I cannot stay out there 24/7 and they are not crying.

I tied her last night so they could nurse.

Where do I get Banamine other than my vet?


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## alicejane (Jan 15, 2014)

jdragr said:


> She is snuggling with hers fine. And I'm sure she is letting them nurse some because I cannot stay out there 24/7 and they are not crying.
> 
> I tied her last night so they could nurse.
> 
> Where do I get Banamine other than my vet?


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## alicejane (Jan 15, 2014)

I think it needs to come a vet. Also my vet gave something to help doe to release more milk. He gave her the banamine saying her nipples are to sore to let baby nurse.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

How is she doing now?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Banamine is RX only.


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## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

Yes - tie her down to the milk stand and give her a treat or grain. Let each kid nurse in turn. We did this every few daylight hour for 2 weeks after our doe freaked out about having too many kids. Almost immediately she chose 1 triplet to nurse independently, so we gave the other two first dibs on the milking stand. Eventually she became relaxed enough and the kids persistent enough that she would let them nurse during the day without help.

At 2 weeks, we begin separating the kids at night and milking in the morning. Each morning we milked the tightness out of her udder, and bottle fed whichever triplet didn’t get to the teats in time with her excess milk. She was fine with two nursing while she was tied down, but hated the feeling of a third one struggling to break in.

Sometimes, the burden of more kids than teats is too frustrating!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

smlovig said:


> Sometimes, the burden of more kids than teats is too frustrating!


I guess so, though I never saw it. But, this goat, is she not a bit tired? Is she all well?


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## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

She has done great! With us supporting the weaker triplet, sometimes with extra milk from another doe, all four did great. Having evenings off, too, made her happy to have them again in the mornings. She could see them at night, but they couldn’t pester her for milk. Her two boys have sold as studs, and she is enjoying just having her daughter now. I did support her with extra rations of oats-barley-corn (for calories) when she began getting too skinny - but she considers that a happy bonus.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

They are all doing well. Still have the in their stable together. Babies are not crying so I know they are nursing sometime. So happy that I am not bottle feeding. I've done it before but we have vacation next week and my son-in-law who is a cattle farmer will be watching my little hobby farm. He says goats are just different.


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## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

Oh, yes - while they were yet tiny and easy to hold, we would present the backside of whichever triplet was not nursing for her to sniff and lick. This helped her identify that the correct kid(s) were nursing her and helped her feel less tied down.


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## jdragr (Oct 7, 2016)

Just wanted to give an update... I know for me I like to know what the rest of the story is. I let Mom and Triplets out today into the pasture with the herd. They were all so happy to be out. Babies were running and planning and mom was happy to see something green. I worked in the pasture on some chores today so I could keep my eyes on them. Trips stayed close to mom. When mom did wonder off babies would cry but then would find mom and be fine. I also saw them nurse several times. I think all is going to be A OK! Thanks for all the advice!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Yippy, this sounds like real progress! Hope all continues to go well for you, the herd, and those triplets. Thank you for the update, it's very welcomed. (thumbup)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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