# Nigerian Dwarfs ~Pet Peeves with Udders



## Sonrise Farm

. . .although I am getting pretty good at judging conformation (to myself anyway . . .much better than I was before . . .) I still have a hard time with shoulders/hindleg angulation . . .but most of all my problem lies with Udders. I know what a nice, snugly attached udder looks like, it's just the foreudders I have problems with. But What are your pet peeves about udders? Mine would be loose attachment and iddy bitty teats . . .


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## capriola-nd

I don't really have a particular pet peeve in udders - if it isn't correct and the way it is supposed to look, then I don't like it. . . . . Pockets in the foreudder really drive me nuts, as well as overall poor attachments, small, widely-placed teats, narrow escutcheon, and poor medial division, I could go on. . . . but I'll leave it at that.


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## sparks879

im a stickler for a nice udder, after all i do have to look at it at least twice a day. Foreudders i like to see a long smooth attatchment, rear udders i like a high wide well rounded scrutchen and a nice medial. But i think the biggest thing is teat size and placement. afterall i am milking the teats not the foreudder. 
beth


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## SDK

heres some pictures of what i think are nice udders


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## Sonrise Farm

I like the last one's long teats. On Old Mountain Farm, the doe called Mizi---I love her teats!


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## SDK

what really matters is the orifice size. not length as much. if the doe has long teats and itty bitty orifices, its gonna take alot longer than a doe with shorter teats and larger orifices


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## mnspinner

I agree, teats don't always look promising, but if they express well that's the key. I love socked on udders - loose attachments drive me nuts.


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## newtogoats

Could someone post some photos for comparison, not of an obviously awful udder, but of some with less desireable traits. It's easier to tell about something really terrible, but something more subtle is harder for a novice like me to tell, especially from a photo. Maybe point out, "see, these teats are too widely spaced,too short", etc. Thanks, Lauren


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## Laurel_Haven

I am glad to see someone brought up teat orifices... It is often overlooked when discussing the udder... as they do make a major difference in milking. I love those does with large orifices makes milking go that much easier! ( I can get twice as much milk from my doe Hopi who has very large orifices, than say another that doesn't in half the time). And then a tight attachment as you want that udder to hold up well over the years. Teat size and positioning come next on my list. I milk so all of those things are very important to me. ( large orifices, tight attachment, teat size, & positioning) :thumbup: 
Then you have other things to consider when looking at an udder that are important, such as texture of the udder, how it collapses after milking, how the fore is connected, is it smoothly blended with no pockets, oh the list just goes on and on...

Here is an illustration that shows an ideal udder and then at the bottom not such an ideal udder with traits you do not want... hope that helps some!


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## SDK

along with the orifice size, another big pet peeve i have is the udder placement. ive seen does with beautiful little udders, but they are sucked in under the body, its supposed to be an even thirds ( 1/3 rear,1/3 leg,1/3 fore) i found some pictures on google, that show this. i hate this trait and i'm breeding it out.( sorry if i found anyones goats on google.)


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## Muddy Creek Farm

Actually one of my biggest pet peeves it teats that are too large/long, they just look really odd on the Nigi sized udder, and they do not always make for ease of milking like others have said. All of my does have fabulous orifices which makes milking very quick. Azriel has the best milkability though, her udder has the best texture and her teats are perfect size for me and her orifaces are huge. 

Rear udder is another one of my biggest pet peeves, I love that socked on round, wide rear udder attatchment. 

Foreudders for me, I love the look of the smooth foreudder don't get me wrong. But I haven't noticed a difference in function ease of milking or really any differences with goats that have less smooth foreudders.

Medials, are a really important part of udders, especially with does who are heavy milkers. I love the look of a good medial, but too much medial does not look good. 

Capacity! is another huge thing! A big udder doesn't always mean lots of milk. They con just have fat in their udder which makes it look larger, they are called beefy udders. That is the reason the judge wants the does milked out for the best in show lineup.

There is lots more, but I home that helps!

(and SDK, that middle photo the doe is just stretched out too far, I bet if she was set up correctly her udder would look alot nicer.)


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## SDK

here are some side profiles of does with poor udder placement

the first doe's udder looks gorgeous, but its tucked in under her body


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## SDK

and here are some does who have better placement.


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## newtogoats

Thank you, thank you for the clear pictures and descriptions, it makes much more sense for me when you point out the traits in the pictures. One last (?) question, what is the problem with a pocket in the foreudder? Is it just aesthetic, or does it cause milking or longevity problems?


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## Muddy Creek Farm

Here is my doe Ginger, she has a very good 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 udder.


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## Sonrise Farm

I can't see your picture, Chelsey . . . my computer blocks it . . .but my favorite doe from Dragonfly Farm is Chiaro . . . and my second favorite is Party . . .


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## SDK

yes chelsea ginger has a beautiful udder!!


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## Muddy Creek Farm

Thank you :greengrin:


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## capriola-nd

Thank you sooooo much for explaining the "third" thing, I have never really gotten that and kept forgetting to ask! Sweet! Now I know what it is.  

Very nice comparison pics everyone. . . . I just love Ginger.


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## Muddy Creek Farm

I love how her lip is stuck out in that photo, she was mid scream :slapfloor:


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## SDK

she's not screaming.. she's smiling for the judge


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## Muddy Creek Farm

LOL, it sure was a loud smile! :slapfloor:


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## capriola-nd

That's funny! I didn't even really notice her "smile".


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## SDK

chelsea. every good show goat knows.. catch the judges attention with a stupid act or loud noise, and smile!

i have one who dances.. and them when the judge looks she sits still.. and walks really good.. and when the judge looks away she has a fit


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## Sweet Gum Minis

I agree, an even udder, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is crucial but teats like everyone else is my main thing. When I first started out I had a lot of different kinds of does in my herd. Some with tiny teats and tiny orifices. When you tried to milk you hand would cramp from the work. So hard to get hardly anything out out of it as well as the small size making it near impossible to hand milk. They're gone now.

I have several does I've milked in my herd now who have absolutely fantastic teats. Placement is good and the orifices are nice and large. You take one squeeze and its like a cup or more per stroke. I love it. Teats are not too big or too small. I can't stand the oddly proportioned teats either. I've seen some that look like someone took the teats off a standard doe and glued them to the Nigerian doe. Looks bad. I want ease of milking but not odd sized teats. 

Attachments, I'm a stickler for attachments. I have seen many does who have high wide rear udders, but the attachments are limited to a small area in the center. I just can't keep that. I like fully attached udders. Fores are something we're going to work on in our herd. We don't have any weak foreudders like pockets or shelfs, just could use more fore extension. I can't wait to see my first fresheners udders in the spring!


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## newtogoats

So can someone explain the problem with pockets in the foreudder, is it that it weakens the attachment in the front?


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## capriola-nd

Yes, that is it. A pocket in the forudder means the doe has a weak foreudder attachment.


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## Laurel_Haven

I do believe... and correct me if I am wrong, the problem with a pocket in the foreudder affects the overall balance of the udder (again the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 proportion) and the udders full capacity to provide milk. :wink: I would think it would weaken the front attachments as well, as you both suggested.


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## sparks879

thats exactly right and you wll notice that a doe with a weak fore udder as she gets older her udder will start to drop theres nothing there to hold it up to her belly and above her hocks.
beth


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## newtogoats

Thank you, that makes sense.


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