# Potential small herd makeup



## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I've been seriously thinking about about what I want my small goat herd to be comprised of.
I have my buckling, Pan, who will be my buck. He is out of an alpine doe and by a registered nigerian.
I have just put a deposit down on a lovely 4 year old alpine doe who is super friendly (bottle fed) and supposedly gives a gallon a day.
I also want a nubian doe. 
But because of this forum (LOL) I find myself very drawn to the purebred nigerians. A friend of mine (Pan's breeder) has a registered buck so if I got a registered doe I could have nice babies.
It's my newbie understanding that this combination might make a nice small milking herd.
What do you guys think?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm biased but my Nigerian does give a substantial amount and excess actually for what I use it for....however, you won't be able to breed Pan with ND does, his half Alpine blood would make for some big babies and you'd have to be certain that he is kept where he cannot get to them or they to him.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

THanks Liz. THat's exactly the kind of thing I need to know. So maybe I just get a nigerian whether if I can't live without one. I wouldn't want to have to keep one goat seperate from the others.
I want to stay small (and I know I'll end up keeping a doeling or two). Of course if I keep two of Pan's doelings I'll have to separate them anyway and then I could get my nigerian doe and have two herds .


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

And...you really don't want to allow Pan in with your does all the time, if you want to breed you'll need to be able to know breed dates to be prepared for due dates and if he's with them all the time, you won't know a breed date.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Pan should only be bred to breed does larger then him so he can be bred to any full size does like Alpines. 

I LOVE my ND's and they provide plenty of milk. 

With Pan being your loving baby I wonder if you actually wouldn't prefer him being a wether. Bucks can be very stinky and once hormones start raging they can get pushy and change their personalitys. Only you know what is best for you and him I love my bucks but if they were to be my pet more then a breeding boy I would wether them to be able to enjoy them more.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

These are all important things for me to ponder. At this point I want to leave Pan intact, but I've never had a buck (or any adult goat).
I have had, bred, raised, trained and ridden several stallions and I love them. THey seem more motivated to please than mares or geldings. But they don't smell LOL.
I think I'll take things day by day for now.
One question, does it at some point become too late to "geld" a male goat in order to keep him from getting stinky after gelding. (I know geld is the wrong word, but you know what I mean)


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I wethered a 2 year old Nigerian buck....after he'd been through all the buckiness and breeding business...it took a few months for the bucky aroma to leave him but now he's a very sweet boy who just loves me and isn't all about the does!

I know that Pan is your first goat and I can see just how much you love him but with experience I will tell you that once he's allowed to go through rut and breeding, his entire attitude will change as will his appearance...he will become sticky and dirty from urinating on his legs and face and you will not want to love on him, his coat will in general become long and coarse and you may end up resenting him once he starts to show his buckiness towards you...when wanting to keep a buck, it's best to not show them affection because they can try to dominate you and the measures you'll need to take once he's grown to keep him in check may not be what you'd want to do. Pan's sweet and adorable cuteness will give way to general bucky behavior....and when he starts to spit and sputter and tongue flap at you, it's not cute at all.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

There is another person thinking about this on the "? of the day" topic so you could look at that. I haven't had a buck before so I may be completely wrong but I would think that if he were taught to respect you from the get-go it wouldn't be too bad... on the other hand if this is your little baby and you want him to stay cute and cuddly forever It might not be a bad idea to wether him. I don't think it will decrease his desire to please you. Also if you are just going to have two does maybe you don't even want a buck yet! You can take the girls to a buck or borrow a buck to come to them if you need to breed... anyway... those are just some more things to think about lol..
M.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Thank you Liz. Good food for thought.
Pan does like his baths now though LOL. I intend to keep bathing him at least once a week.
I used to be the stallion handler at three farms. I was responsible for training the stallions to let me wash their erections after being teased. THen I had to train them to respect me enough to overcome their instincts while hand breeding. They had to politely approach the mare and I was responsible for keeping the stallion, the mare and her handler safe.
I do know how to deal with stallions. But goats are smarter. I might not be good enough to keep Pan as good as my stallions.
But I'm glad to hear that I will at least be able to try. I do know that imprint hoofstock can be the most dangerous of animals, but I also know that my sister in law's 12 year old bottle raised stallion can be ridden bareback with a halter through a field of mares in season because of his training.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree with Liz and Logan....

And I have to say goats have a different mindset then horses.... I have never personally worked with a buck... but have with some stallions.... and I think I would rather work with the stallions then the bucks... but I do desperately want a few bucks! LOL!

Like it was said you know what is best....


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I don't know what's best yet, I'm still learning .
THere's an old saying in horses "A good stallion makes a great gelding".
Pan is still so young and adorable that I'm a little "barn blind" at the moment.
As I get more experience I will be able to make the right decision. I definitely appreciate the input though, thank you.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

You know, as I think about it, maybe I will geld Pan.
One of my fears was that if something were to happen to me that Pan might get eaten (I know, I always think the worst, but I've eaten goat before. I would never eat Pan!).
But with as teachable as he is right now I think that if I teach him a lot of tricks and to be very good then maybe, even as a whether he would have more value alive than for meat.
I do want him to keep this delightful personality and then I could get the nigerian doe I want. Plus my friend has a registered nigerian buck.
THanks for the input here guys. I need to hear this stuff, I'm such a newbie.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I now have my first buck! I originally thought to get a buckling and raise him my way. To be as friendly as possible, etc. This buck I bought is an adult and was not handled much so is not friendly...hope to change that to the point where I can at least handle him on a leash, do his feet, etc.

I am actually glad I got an adult for my first buck. I have had two here for breeding, but this guy is a REAL stinker! I think if he was super friendly hubby would not allow me in the house! I mean he is rank! Plus with an adult I can learn, as he already knows what to do, and then decide later if I want to raise one from a kid.

I agree that if you want to keep Pan as a pet, wether him! He will be happier and you will not have to put up with his antics and smell during rut time! If you want ND's, then look for a ND buck or lease one for breeding time. i is nice to just have the buck around for breedin , then send him home. Then the rest of time you can love on your herd.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Kymi, I'm not making the decision right now, but I'm certainly leaning that way.
In a way it might be more fair to Pan cause then he could stay my spoiled pet. And like I said, I do have a friend with a nice registered nigerian buck (Pan's dad).
And right now there's a nubian buck, 5 months old for $50 and he's beautiful. I'm not going to buy him, but it goes to show how many opportunities come around.
I love Pan and I want to keep him a pet.
Guess when my vet calls I'll ask about wethering him. After all, it does no harm to ask.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm really glad I started this thread. It's given me a lot to think about.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

Sounds like you have a lovely start to your herd. Your little guy is adorable! Like you I get very attached to my animals. So I have to be very careful in the acquisition department. I'm trying to consider my long term goals before adding anything new. I've heard it's best to focus on one breed to avoid burn out. That said I have 2 goats now that are different breeds/crosses. And I'm adding a 3rd breed next month


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Thank you Hobby.
I am very much in love with my dear little Pan, he even sleeps with me at night LOL. So I think wethering him will be best for both of us. 
In terms of my future herd, I have reasons for wanting those three breeds. Pan looks alpine and I really like the looks of alpines. Mindy, the alpine doe I'm getting next week will be a beautiful animal with a little more weight on her. Plus she's super friendly and supposedly a very good milker.
I want a nubian for the different milk and the different look.
And I want a purebred nigerian for milk as well as offspring. I think I'll end up keeping a couple nigerians, doelings of my first doe, and I want to bottle feed them.
So that's my plan for now .


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I will tell you from experience that it's very hard to keep herds "separate" if you have a small place. I have some Cashmere goats and Nigerian Dwarf Goats. Now I also have a couple of Alpine girls. I'm breeding my Alpines to my NDG bucks. All my bucks can be together in a pasture, but the Cashmere girls like to headbutt my "little darlings" so I have to keep them apart, which I hate! I wish the girls would get along as well as the bucks. But, when my BIG buck goes into rut (thank goodness it's not all the time) he may be a problem, because he's bigger then the Niggys now. I had to separate the two NDG bucks last fall because they were trying to kill each other. 

AND the drama continues...now the NDG does are going into heat...and I saw the bucks all fighting this morning. :doh:


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well thats why I posted this thread, so I can learn from you guys who know more than I do .
THanks for the input.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Well now that I've made my mind up to whether young Pan and keep him a pet I have been thinking about what I want in a buck.
These things are what I've come up with so far:
Nigerian
Tame 
Handleable
Attractive
Affordable
Disbudded
Sane

Today I saw a local ad for a five and a half month old small, disbudded nigerian buckling who is halter trained and leads well and he is only $75 because he is not registered.
I've talked to his owner and she's e-mailing me pics.
What do you guys think? What other questions should I be asking? He lives with other nigerians now and gets along well with them.


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## ShannonM (Mar 29, 2011)

I know I'm kind of jumping into a discussion here, but I would definitely think about him not being registered. Is he able to be registered or not? I would also research what a good buck's confirmation should look like and what his dam's udder should look like. Granted they're not going to be perfect, but that is one thing that I wish I had done before I got into the Nigerians. I didn't research confirmation enough, and I bought from a farm that just raised them for fun and now I have mediocre goats and even though we have added better ones as time has gone on and worked our way up it would have been much easier to start out with good goats than to have to try to get to the level that most people are starting at... :shrug: 
I hoped that helped a little bit


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I should have updated this. I changed my mind when the breeder offered me a registered buck of the same age, ( just slightly over double the price LOL). He's adorable and just as sweet. 
As long as I like his personality as much as I like his buckskin looks I think I'll be taking the leap. I just feel better about having a registered buck as a sire. And from what little I know of bloodlines his are pretty good. I posted them somewhere here...


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

This is me experimenting to see if I can resize pics so I can post them. My first attempt will be a pic of sweet Mindy, the Alpine doe I'll be picking up in a day or two. In the pic she's begging Pan's breeder for some scratching  she's such a love :lovey: 

Here goes


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Very cute doe!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

*Re: Potential small herd makeup, Yay it worked, real pics!*

Finally got my real camera hooked up to my computer


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Can't wait to see more pics! And some more of Pan


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

She's a real lover, Joy  . I get to bring her home this week


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Lucky you! I am getting my two new does on Friday! I can't wait!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

okay


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

She looks very sweet


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

She's sweet, good to milk, good with other goats and good with horses. She seems perfect for me . And there's even the possibility that I'll be able to get her registration papers from her former owner.
Congrats on your two new does, Joy!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

OMgosh! look at those horns! She's very pretty, and loveable, I hope she doesn't use those horns, though.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Supposedly the horses she used to live with would scratch themselves against them. But I have looked into banding the horns.


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