# HELP - Goat diarrhea won't stop - UPDATE: she didn't make it ;( ;(



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Hello,

We have a goat (female, never bred, approx 50 lbs) that has been having liquid diarrhea for over a week now. She is Dangerous (very white under eyes) on the FAMACHA scale. Here is what we have done so far (over the past week+).

Noticed she was sick (lagging behind the herd)
Dewormed with Cydectin
when that didn't work...
Dewormed with Valbazen
Diarrhea kept on, separated her from herd with unlimited hay to eat, we also tried feeding her cedar branches but she didn't like them that much
Took her temp - it was 104 so started on Sulmet thinking an infection
After 4 days of Sulmet diarrhea still going strong so took fecal to vet
Vet said there were so many barber pole worms that whatever dewormer we gave was basically being "poured on the ground" and gave us Diawin for diarrhea
Throughout all of this she is getting oral B12 at 20 ml daily and Magic Cell (Dumor brand red cell) at about 5-6 ml daily
Started giving her the Diawin tablets and giving fortified B Complex injections daily
Diawin not working at all
Started giving Pepto Bismol 2x daily at about 10 ml to start, then yesterday changed to 20 ml - has not worked at all
Also been giving probiotic gel and nutri-drench periodically, only thing she has to drink is electrolytes and she has a mineral block
She is eating and drinking and walking still but eye color still very white and she is weak
We have ordered iron injectable and copper bolus after reading that copper bolus can kill barber pole worms
Called vet today to tell him that Diawin was not working and ask what else we could try but he is out of town until Monday

I am at my wits end because if we try a different dewormer it will just go straight through her so we have to stop the diarrhea. Afraid she's going to die if we cannot get it stopped so we can try deworming again.

Any suggestions or help anyone has is welcome! Anything to stop this!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yikes! Sounds like you need an injectable dewormer so it can kill those worms through the bloodstream and also avoid causing extreme blood loss from killing the worms off too quickly. I'm not sure about the diarrhea. I've never dealt with something like this.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How old is this goat and breed?

Glad she is getting an iron supplement.

If her temp was 104, she had pneumonia or a infection, which a cocci med will not take care of. 
She needs a antibiotic like nuflor or Biomycin 200. Is her temp still high?
She needs something for that. 
If it is normal disregard this.

Sulmet is not for fever.
Banamine will take temp down if high.

When you used Cydectin and then Valbazen, what was the dosage and did you give it 10 days later 3x, 10 days apart?

What was given to treat Barberpole?
Ivomec is a good one for it.

Try some pig scour halt, when proper treatment is started for barberpole worms. Give 3 x dosage on the label. For 3 days 1 x a day. It helps stubborn scouring issues, but you have to treat the barberpole worms correctly for anything to work.

If she is super anemic, she may need blood transfusions.

Diawin is not good for goat issues.
It is for dogs, tablets do nothing for goats. 

In the fecal, did it show she had cocci? 
If not, no need to treat for that. 
It is the barberpole worms that needs killing with a proper and correct wormer, not something for dogs. If they are not killed off, the goat is going to die. Anemia being treated is doing nothing if the goat still has barberpole worms.


Giving fortified B Complex injections daily is good to do. 

Pepto Bismol is every 4 to 6 hours. 
But again, will do nothing if worms are present.
Probiotic gel and nutri-drench periodically is good too.

Electrolytes is really good to give her.

If she isn't eating, make a alfalfa pellet slurry, grind up 1/4 cup pellets, then add water, make it to where it can go through a big syringe or new turkey baster and feed her very slowly at the back corner of her mouth. Go out every few hours and feed her a new batch each time.

Loose salt and minerals are better, the block is no good.

Copper bolus would help, but the worms need to be killed off first for copper or any iron supplement to work correctly.

Wormers need to be given proper and for the right species. 

Try giving Ivomec cattle injectable.
1 cc per 40 lbs SQ, then 10 days later, SQ again. Do it 3 x 10 days apart. 
Then 10 days later get a fecal to see where she is at. If she still has some then, follow up with Ivomec orally, 2 to 3 x 10 days apart. At 1 cc per 33 lbs.
It is better to slightly overdose than to underdose.


Over worming isn't good either, especially with the wrong type.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thank you! Ordered some generic Ivomec with next day shipping and will take her temp again. She is about to be 2 yrs on April 4th and is a mix of Nubian, Alpine, and Arapawa (and maybe some others?) but she is the size of a Pygmy. Her mom is the herd leader and she has a twin sister. And no, she did not have cocci.

About the scour halt, is this the right kind?: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/bimeda-spectogard-scour-chek-240-ml?cm_vc=-10005 And if so, do I x3 the dosage for pigs under 10 lbs or over 10 lbs?



toth boer goats said:


> How old is this goat and breed?
> 
> Glad she is getting an iron supplement.
> 
> ...


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Has the vet done a fecal test?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Banamine will help with the gut as well as pain and fever reduction.
Scour halt may help stop the runs too. I have used kaopectate with decent results. Never use IMMODIUM . It can kill a goat as it stops the entire digestive system from working. 
(This would be in addition to all the great advise given) 
I hope she gets better quickly.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I always throw this out there when I see someone with difficult diarrhea. Blackberry leaves work AMAZING. I have had it work when nothing else would.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

What was the dosage of Cydectin and Valbazen given? 

How are you estimating her weight? (eyeball, weight tape, have an actual scale? Can you pick her up and stand on a bathroom scale then subtract your weight?)

What is she eating? Protein is very important to recover from anemia. A slurry of rehydrated alfalfa pellets as mentioned above is usually very useful!


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## goatlady58 (Feb 23, 2016)

New-goat-mom said:


> I always throw this out there when I see someone with difficult diarrhea. Blackberry leaves work AMAZING. I have had it work when nothing else would.


where can blackberry leaves be found out of season?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

goatlady58 said:


> where can blackberry leaves be found out of season?


Health food stores usually carry them or they can be ordered online.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

21goaties said:


> Thank you! Ordered some generic Ivomec with next day shipping and will take her temp again. She is about to be 2 yrs on April 4th and is a mix of Nubian, Alpine, and Arapawa (and maybe some others?) but she is the size of a Pygmy. Her mom is the herd leader and she has a twin sister. And no, she did not have cocci.
> 
> About the scour halt, is this the right kind?: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/bimeda-spectogard-scour-chek-240-ml?cm_vc=-10005 And if so, do I x3 the dosage for pigs under 10 lbs or over 10 lbs?


All good added advice and questions, very important to know.

Yes, that is the stuff.
You have to get an accurate weight on your goat and that is how you dose it by 3. If she is over 10 lbs, go by that and triple it.

You can add just a little bit of oat, rye hay or equivalent to her diet, to help dry her up. Just a little bit, to what she is already being fed.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

UPDATE:
In the last 2 days she has gotten considerably weaker (has a hard time getting up/walking) but diarrhea is a little thicker. We finally were able to get the generic Ivomec and gave it last night . . . while giving it we discovered she also has lice. 0_0 Thankfully it also kills lice. Have been continuing all the treatments I listed in my initial post, except yesterday I only gave one dose of Pepto and have started giving Magic cell 2x a day and nutri-drench every 8 hours. We will start the scour halt today as well. She is still eating and drinking, but definitely weaker.
Does anyone know how fast the Ivomec should work?? Didn't think she would make it through last night but she did.


toth boer goats said:


> All good added advice and questions, very important to know.
> 
> Yes, that is the stuff.
> You have to get an accurate weight on your goat and that is how you dose it by 3. If she is over 10 lbs, go by that and triple it.
> ...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Injectable Ivermectin given orally will not treat lice but injected it will. I think you injected it but just wanted to clarify!

I hope she makes a turn for the better.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> Injectable Ivermectin given orally will not treat lice but injected it will. I think you injected it but just wanted to clarify!
> 
> I hope she makes a turn for the better.


Yes it was injected SQ. I hope so too praying for a miracle at this point.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

UPDATE 2: She now can't get up, although she is still eating and drinking and holding head up. I also saw her have this weird spasm a few times like she was coughing (her ears went back and her sides sucked in), but she wasn't coughing. I made that alfalfa mush and she ate some of that. Right now she is laying in the sun with hay, oak branch, mineral block, and the bowl of mush. I gave her Magic cell and nutri drench this morning, and she drank some electrolytes. I also put fly spray on her (she still has diarrhea on her back legs and tail). Does anyone know if it's possible to save a down goat? She is still VERY anemic and seems to be getting weaker. 


toth boer goats said:


> All good added advice and questions, very important to know.
> 
> Yes, that is the stuff.
> You have to get an accurate weight on your goat and that is how you dose it by 3. If she is over 10 lbs, go by that and triple it.
> ...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The nutridrench does burn the throat, so you may want to stop that. Are you giving probiotics?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> The nutridrench does burn the throat, so you may want to stop that. Are you giving probiotics?


Yes, I am giving probiotics daily. I have been giving nutridrench every 8 hours because she is so weak I thought it might be keeping her alive but do you think I'm wrong on that?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, stop the nutridrench.

Probiotics and fortified vit B complex SQ

Makes sure she gets her alfalfa pellets.
No grain while so sick.

Ivomec works pretty quick, be sure if she does make it, to give it again in 10 days, so it is every 10 days, 3 x.
Giving it SQ will make the worms release slower, so she won't bleed out as much. 
It does kill one lice species giving it SQ.

Giving her Ivomec injected was good. Now the worms are dying off. 
She may need a blood transfusion, because of the time frame it has been going on and her weakness showing now.


You should try to get her up occasionally, even if you have to hoist her up in a padded contraption, supervised for a short while on and off during the day.
Massage her legs and encourage her to stand.

You may want to ask the vet for iron shots, if she is super white or too light, if you cannot get her a blood infusion.

A vet can help get her what she needs right now.
Prayers sent.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> I agree, stop the nutridrench.
> 
> Probiotics and fortified vit B complex SQ
> 
> ...


Update 3:
Was able to get some injectable iron and gave some tonight but it was not looking good when we left. Afraid the anemia has advanced to a deathly level. I feel horrible.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

No advice, just ((((((HUGS)))))


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm so sorry. Some are just much more susceptible to parasites than others


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I could not pick up whether or not your vet did a bacteria check when he did the fecal. She could have worms AND an infection at the same time. I had an infection go through my bucks that eliminated almost all of them before we got it stopped.

Now calf scour pills are one of my go-tos

Also, I know it is scary, but it sounds like you could very well lose her. I brought a doe back from death's door once with this...
Boil 1 liter water, add 1 tsp copper sulfate (the boiling water helps it dissolve quickly).

Dose 10 ml/day for 7 days, then skip 7 days. Dose 5ml/day for 7 days, then skip 7 days. Dose 5ml/day for 7 days, skip 7 days. Please note the dose change.

Carry on for one more cycle, but ONLY if she hasn't picked up markedly.

I'm not telling anyone to do this. I found this on the internet, but I can't remember where. If I find it, I'll edit this to include the source. I was afraid, but she was dying anyway and I could not get the parasites under control.

I'm really sorry. She sounds like a nice doe.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update 4:
She was still alive this morning. She now won't get up at all but eats the grass wherever I drag her to and alfalfa mush (and hay last night). How do I know if the Ivomec worked (or is working)? Should I try a different dewormer? Tried giving her some positive pellet yesterday but she wouldn't eat it. Also, I am giving 6 ml of Magic cell 2x a day, would it hurt to give iron shots 2x a day as well or just 1x? Also her back end is REALLY dirty, does anyone know how I should try to clean that? I am going to try to hoist her up today by tying a sheet through a chute and putting her on it . . how long should I keep her up? (afraid her legs have lost circulation). She also appears to still have fleas and lice, should the Ivomec have killed them by now? And I did not start the scour halt because the diarrhea appeared to be turning into mushy clumps, do you think I should still do that? Still unsure if she will make it but will keep trying.



toth boer goats said:


> I agree, stop the nutridrench.
> 
> Probiotics and fortified vit B complex SQ
> 
> ...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do not use any more dewormers without getting a fecal analysis. Her system is shot with chemicals. I would bring a sample to the vet, see if they can check for parasites AND bacteria. Then you will know whether to use the Scourhalt or not. You can't know if the Ivomec is working without a fecal analysis because anemia is a LONG recovery - you won't see FAMACHA score improvement for weeks. 

Now for daily support - she should be getting once daily: 
B-Complex injection
Probiotics
Red/Magic Cell OR iron injections - not both

I would get something to treat those lice and fleas on her right away though - they are definitely contributing to the anemia. Permethrin (UltraBoss or similar) will kill both. 

I can't believe she is still alert & eating. She has a will to live. If she survives however, you may not want her in your breeding program as you don't want to pass on genetic parasite susceptibility. 

If you get her up in a sling - 10-15 minutes will do. And/or twice a day do bicycle motions with her legs to get circulation, and shift her from side to side to access all 4 legs. 

Pneumonia is a very high risk for a goat that is down. Be sure to monitor her rectal temperature.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

SalteyLove said:


> Do not use any more dewormers without getting a fecal analysis. Her system is shot with chemicals. I would bring a sample to the vet, see if they can check for parasites AND bacteria. Then you will know whether to use the Scourhalt or not. You can't know if the Ivomec is working without a fecal analysis because anemia is a LONG recovery - you won't see FAMACHA score improvement for weeks.
> 
> Now for daily support - she should be getting once daily:
> B-Complex injection
> ...


This is what I recommend and well said.

You can't keep giving her wormers.
A fecal will tell you where she is at.
You have to wait 10- 14 days after worming before doing a fecal check, so you know if the count is changing.

How much does she weigh and did you give her 1 cc per 40 lbs SQ Ivomec? Be sure of her weight, never under dose.

Cleaning her bum, is hard when they are down. I hate to chill or stress her, trying to get that eww off of her.
It takes a lot of water to clean a really messy caked on mess.
Trimming the longer hair helps so it doesn't stick so much to her.

If the weather is cold, I recommend a heat lamp and/or a sweater on her. Not too low that she will over heat or burn. The red heat bulbs cast more heat out and can be placed higher.
Being down she cannot regulate her heat.

Copper bolus would be good if you haven't given it to her.

All you can do is wait and then fecal test her 10- 14 days after her worming, Continue what was mentioned by Saltey. Continue Ivomec wormer SQ in the 10 days. Make sure it is done 3 x 10 days apart.
Continue the iron, one or the other.

Isn't the vet supervising her progress and giving you any help with what to do for her?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

She weighs (from looking at her) approximately 50-80 lbs (although she is pretty emaciated). We did give her 2cc of Ivomec (generic) Sub-Q. The thing is she has gotten a lot worse since then so I am unsure what to do (especially since the worms may be resistant to Ivomec here). Before I got on this forum I did not know that any dewormer for goats could be injected. We are (hopefully if we can get a sample) going to have another fecal done today to check for bacteria (by the other vet at the practice). The thing is, we have not had good luck with goat vets here. The vet we have been using is the one that did the first fecal and found a TON of barberpole and gave us Diawin but had no other advice (since we told him dewormers weren't working). He is also out of town until Monday.

This morning we went out and tied a sheet around her and hoisted her up for a good while and rubbed her legs. After a little while she tried to walk but couldn't make it more than 1 step before collapsing. When she had been up there long enough that her legs were starting to tremble we let her down. I cleaned her rear the best I could with paper towels which she did NOT like. I also gave Pepto and probiotics, and she got an iron shot and B-complex shot. She drank electrolytes and ate some weeds we picked for her, and some alfalfa mush. I also sprayed some of this: https://www.jefferspet.com/products/bronco-gold-equine-fly-spray onto a rag and rubbed it into her coat. Will that stuff work to kill the lice/fleas like the UltraBoss you recommended? It was near freezing the past few nights but now it has gone up to 50s and 60s low temps so I think she'll be good. We gave a copper bolus (2mg) to our other anemic goat (who is up and nowhere near as bad as this one) but thought the other was too sick to try and give her one. We will give her one though now (just we won't be able to fast her beforehand, is that okay?)

Thank ya'll for all the help.



toth boer goats said:


> This is what I recommend and well said.
> 
> You can't keep giving her wormers.
> A fecal will tell you where she is at.
> ...


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

She weighs (from looking at her) approximately 50-80 lbs (although she is pretty emaciated). We did give her 2cc of Ivomec (generic) Sub-Q. The thing is she has gotten a lot worse since then so I am unsure what to do (especially since the worms may be resistant to Ivomec here). Before I got on this forum I did not know that any dewormer for goats could be injected. We are (hopefully if we can get a sample) going to have another fecal done today to check for bacteria (by the other vet at the practice). The thing is, we have not had good luck with goat vets here. The vet we have been using is the one that did the first fecal and found a TON of barberpole and gave us Diawin but had no other advice (since we told him dewormers weren't working). He is also out of town until Monday.

This morning we went out and tied a sheet around her and hoisted her up for a good while and rubbed her legs. After a little while she tried to walk but couldn't make it more than 1 step before collapsing. When she had been up there long enough that her legs were starting to tremble we let her down. I cleaned her rear the best I could with paper towels which she did NOT like. I also gave Pepto and probiotics, and she got an iron shot and B-complex shot. She drank electrolytes and ate some weeds we picked for her, and some alfalfa mush. I also sprayed some of this: https://www.jefferspet.com/products/bronco-gold-equine-fly-spray onto a rag and rubbed it into her coat. Will that stuff work to kill the lice/fleas like the UltraBoss you recommended? It was near freezing the past few nights but now it has gone up to 50s and 60s low temps so I think she'll be good. We gave a copper bolus (2mg) to our other anemic goat (who is up and nowhere near as bad as this one) but thought the other was too sick to try and give her one. We will give her one though now (just we won't be able to fast her beforehand, is that okay?)

Thank ya'll for all the help.



SalteyLove said:


> Do not use any more dewormers without getting a fecal analysis. Her system is shot with chemicals. I would bring a sample to the vet, see if they can check for parasites AND bacteria. Then you will know whether to use the Scourhalt or not. You can't know if the Ivomec is working without a fecal analysis because anemia is a LONG recovery - you won't see FAMACHA score improvement for weeks.
> 
> Now for daily support - she should be getting once daily:
> B-Complex injection
> ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she weighs more than 80 lbs it will be under dosed, but hopefully she is within the weight you stated.

That is the thing, when they have a heavy worm load and properly treated, the worms let go from the wall and those area's will bleed. If you give Ivomec orally it will cause her to bleed out, as the worms let go all at once. By giving it SQ it is a slower release and the worms won;t do it all at once. That is one that can be injected, not all can. It also kills mites and some lice too.
When they are very ill they will go down more before getting better. If she is going too. Hopefully she will respond to Ivomec, we will see when you do the fecal again. If Ivomec has never been used on her before it may work. She ,might not be resistant to it.

If the vets are no good, which giving a goat oral dog meds is not wise, all we can do is help you, then, and hope we can pull her through. So I don;t blame you for not wanting false advice and remedy from them.

Good you got her up for a while that is good. She is quite weak, so it is also good she at least tried, keep up that on and off.

Give her probitotic 2 x a day and fortified vit B complex, make sure it has thiamine in it, should see it on the back that says 100 mg thiamine, give that 3 x a day SQ. I would give her 12 cc's, she can pee out what she doesn't need. 
Maybe do it like 8am, 2pm and before bed.

You don't have to have her up for a long time per session. 
Trembling? Is the sheet putting to much pressure on her? You need something that supports her without putting too much pressure(pinching) on her belly.
Have her to where her legs are slightly bent, so if she wants to stand on her own, she can.

Glad you got some of her poo cleaned off. 

Keeping flies ect off of her is good with that spray. If that is the issue.
It can be sprayed directly on her. Just keep it away from her face and eye's. Use a rag to dab her around there if you need too. It works for flies but not so good for lice and fleas. 

UltraBoss is better for lice, but not mites.

Does she have mites, if so, she will have scabs around her ankle area's and dander. 
Or does she have lice that you can see in her hair?

Glad the weather has warmed up.

Give her a copper bolus, it will help fight off the worms. There is no need to fast her. I don't do it with my goats.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

The only thing I can add to the excellent advice is to use baby wipes to help clean her backside. They do a pretty good job.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Be careful with the iron--too much can kill them. Can you get some B12 to add to the rest of the stuff? Tractor Supply has Rooster Booster oral B12. It will help build up the blood. I would try giving a dose of the animal Pepto Bismol three times a day. I think that I would also give LA 200 or Biomycin if you can get it. Others don't like this, but your goat is really sick, I would give a shake with some milk, an egg, some molasses (or corn syrup) and some corn oil and give it to her. My goats love it.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

jschies said:


> Be careful with the iron--too much can kill them. Can you get some B12 to add to the rest of the stuff? Tractor Supply has Rooster Booster oral B12. It will help build up the blood. I would try giving a dose of the animal Pepto Bismol three times a day. I think that I would also give LA 200 or Biomycin if you can get it. Others don't like this, but your goat is really sick, I would give a shake with some milk, an egg, some molasses (or corn syrup) and some corn oil and give it to her. My goats love it.


I have been giving oral B12 daily. Her diarrhea has stopped (clumps now) so I think I will stop the Pepto and just do probiotics unless it comes back.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

B-12 orally is not the best.
She needs multi B vitamins of fortified vit B complex SQ for it to work, the thiamine in it keeps away polio. Which is concerning with all the meds she was given.

I agree, you can overdose iron especially in shot form, orally can be too if you do not stop quick enough. There is a fine line.
But if she is white, she needs something to bring her blood count up.
That is why to stop, when the color is at borderline color.

Not sure that giving her antibiotics is wise now, when you know from her fecal, it was due to high worm load.

I wouldn't give egg and milk to an adult goat that is down.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Her system is getting overloaded with too many things at this point. The best thing you can do it take a fecal sample to the vet and see what you are actually dealing with. Giving the incorrect wormers at incorrect doses makes the problem work (Im not saying you are, just speaking generally)


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> B-12 orally is not the best.
> She needs multi B vitamins of fortified vit B complex SQ for it to work, the thiamine in it keeps away polio. Which is concerning with all the meds she was given.
> 
> I agree, you can overdose iron especially in shot form, orally can be too if you do not stop quick enough. There is a fine line.
> ...


I won't give any antibiotics or egg/milk. We have been giving 3cc of iron injection daily as the only iron. Will start giving 12 cc B complex injections 3x daily (before we were doing one B complex injection daily). She is a very small goat.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

It sounds like you are making progress if the diarrhea is getting better. That is good to hear! Hopefully she will get better for you.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Wow, you are really doing your best! I'm sure she can tell how much you care & I hope she recovers!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Giving her high quantity of fortified vit b complex will help her build her blood, get her appetite going well, put crucial thiamine into her rumen, to prevent polio. You can go less with it, but, I would do the higher dose, for the first injection anyway to give her a boost she may need.
thereafter you can do the 6 cc's SQ.
Do the 3 x a day for 4 days, then as needed.

Do know, her urine will look more orange so don't be alarmed.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I use, believe it or not, either Metamucil or Psyllium for scours. They are pretty much the same thing, Metamucil is mostly psyllium, they just add flavoring to make it taste better. I mix it with a bit of water and drench them with it. It helps absorb all the extra moisture in the intestinal tract but does not cause constipation like some meds do and it is medication free.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update: This morning she is weaker. She is still eating though. Exactly how bad will they get before they get better (if they are going to)? She moaned when we pulled her up to rub her legs this morning and she cannot push up on her front legs. She is so weak you can tell she would like to lay her head down. When do you think it is time to put a goat down (like how far gone is too far?) This is pitiful.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update: This morning she is weaker. She is still eating though. Exactly how bad will they get before they get better (if they are going to)? She moaned when we pulled her up to rub her legs this morning and she cannot push up on her front legs. She is so weak you can tell she would like to lay her head down. When do you think it is time to put a goat down (like how far gone is too far?) This is pitiful. 



toth boer goats said:


> Giving her high quantity of fortified vit b complex will help her build her blood, get her appetite going well, put crucial thiamine into her rumen, to prevent polio. You can go less with it, but, I would do the higher dose, for the first injection anyway to give her a boost she may need.
> thereafter you can do the 6 cc's SQ.
> Do the 3 x a day for 4 days, then as needed.
> 
> Do know, her urine will look more orange so don't be alarmed.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Only you can decide when it is time to let her go. The decision is better made when you are physically looking at her. Things like your knowledge, how good your vet is and what medication and supplements you have available all play a role including your time.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> Only you can decide when it is time to let her go. The decision is better made when you are physically looking at her. Things like your knowledge, how good your vet is and what medication and supplements you have available all play a role including your time.


She just had this episode where she tried to chew cud but instead started choking on and it pouring out of her mouth everywhere and her moaning. I tried to stand her up but she can't at all. We are going to give her until Monday when the vet gets back and then have her put down unless she improves miraculously.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Karen said it very well.

It is tough decision, I am sorry she isn't better, but getting weaker. As I said before, if she is still white anemic, she needs blood transfusions and is in critical condition.

She may or may not get better, but if you are willing to keep tying for a little longer and she is eating and wanting to live, then do so. 
Sometimes it takes a while for a goat to snap back, but we cannot say how long it will be, for her to respond, if she is going to do so.

Use your best judgment, either you or she will let you know. It is the will to live, but, we also have to decide when is it enough.

Getting that fecal may say something.
If she still has a heavy worm load, you have basically tried everything and it seems nothing will work for her. But it should be 10 days after worming yet, it is tough to not know what is happening now, with her worm load. 

Not being able to walk and move around, her rumen may shut down or she can get pneumonia, so be aware in case.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

PM update: We think that the reason she was so bad this morning is because she hadn't had her shots yet and was worn out from the long night (she had finished the alfalfa mush) so was probably hungry and weak. However, when we gave another 12cc of B-complex and the daily iron shot after a few hours she went back to the same way she was yesterday - if you pull her up with the sheet she can stand on her own for a few minutes (but not take a step) and then she runs out of energy and has to lay back down. That is better than how she was this morning - couldn't move her legs and barely hold up her head. I also think that the whole cud choking/pouring out of mouth incident was because she was laying on her left side (rumen). Do you think that's possible? After experimenting today I noticed she prefers to lay on her right side. I pulled her legs out from under her many times today so she would have to work to pull them back in figuring it was good exercise. She is not having diarrhea any more but normal goat pellets and is drinking electrolytes and eating. It is strange because you would think she would be able to stand but I guess the anemia is just so bad she cannot pull herself up. We gave the copper bolus today (2mg) and will give another B-complex shot tonight (she has had 2 today). It also appears that the lice have died as they are not moving anymore - and boy she has/had a LOT of lice. Like you can see them. She was also yelling a lot tonight which we are assuming is a good sign. She doesn't like being away from the other goats.

We are hoping that she will pull through but realize that she may not be able to. We have never had a down goat recover, but then we have never tried this type of treatment. I will reevaluate tomorrow (providing she is still alive then).



toth boer goats said:


> Karen said it very well.
> 
> It is tough decision, I am sorry she isn't better, but getting weaker. As I said before, if she is still white anemic, she needs blood transfusions and is in critical condition.
> 
> ...


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

good luck over night hope she gets better soon. keep doing what you are doing.she sounds as if shes getting a little better. i bet she will be very happy that you tried to save her if she doesnt make it.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow I am so sorry, just reading through this. How scary for you and heartbreaking I am sure  
I think you are doing everything you possibly can. I do wonder if she is eating enough nutritionally to boost her energy? Is she back to making goat pellets or still really clumpy poo? Maybe a handful of sweet feed off and one to gradually get something into her? Or something else to get her blood sugar and energy up?
I wonder if Goat Power Punch would help with some of the nutritional needs. It is definitely much easier on them than the nutri-drench. 

It's a long shot, but years ago we had a buck develop polio, and then he got hit with a wormload. He was alert, but couldn't get up. Vet gave us a shot of Dexamethasone and within 10 minutes he was able to stand on shaky legs.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Update:

She is dying. She did that thing we have seen goats do where they seem to improve then go down fast.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You have done everything that you possibly could do. She knows she is loved. If she has to go, I hope she slips off peacefully for you. 
It sure is hard to be a goat owner, sometimes.


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

Sending you a big Goat hug. So sorry. You went way above and beyond to try to help you. RIP little goat girl.


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## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

Maybe giving ivermectin injectable or ivermectin gold paste for horses would have helped. But it’s not your fault. Are your other goats ok? I would worm them too just in case.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

She's gone this morning. Thank you everyone for all your help. We had not lost a goat in almost 3 years so this was horrible. This kind of thing makes you want to get out of goats. 


We will be rethinking how we approach parasite control and are going to be a lot more aggressive on getting fecals done and taking temperatures (which we rarely did in the past).


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Ashlynn said:


> Maybe giving ivermectin injectable or ivermectin gold paste for horses would have helped. But it's not your fault. Are your other goats ok? I would worm them too just in case.


We had given ivermectin injectable. It appeared to be working but she just couldn't beat the anemia.


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## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

21goaties said:


> We had given ivermectin injectable. It appeared to be working but she just couldn't beat the anemia.


 Oh ok I'm sorry.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You did your best. She is not in any distress anymore. Again, so sorry for your loss.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm sorry. It sounds like you did everything you could.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm so sorry that she didn't make it.

Just something to think about for the future. I have two goats that are affected by worms more than the others. One had bottle jaw a week ago. I wormed her with Cydectin, gave Red Cell 2 days, and gave 8 grams of copper. Her color is wonderful this week... I have never had one get over bottle jaw so quickly. That really made me rethink our anemia issues on my farm. I have always been scared to give a "full dose" of copper. We have well water and live in a very rainy area, so we are very selenium and copper deficient.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. 

I really put the blame on the vet, for giving a goat a oral dog pill for worms. 
Too much time went by for accurate treatment for her issue and what that did was, make her worse and beyond treatment.

With high worm loads and anemia, the goat needs to be treated as soon as possible, before they go too pale or white. 
Checking inner lower eyelid coloring from time to time tells you if they need to have a fecal done or treatment.

Losing weight, even being fed well is another sign and also may be cocci.
Without scouring. Or at times it can be scouring or soft stool.

If you ever have any issues pop up, please come to TGS, we can better assist you. Your vet is not goat smart. Which is sad and devastating. 

It was not your fault at all, we should trust our vets opinion, as they should know how to care for animals properly, but unfortunately, that vet is not smart in goats.

You tried so hard to save her but, it was too long before she was given proper treatment. You didn't know.

I hate loss too and believe me, I almost baled on the goat business. A few times.

She was well loved and I highly commend you for your effort.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thank you. I am so glad I found this forum and I will definitely be coming here to ask questions, I feel like we may have been going about things wrong with the goats for years. We just have them to clear woods/as pets and occasionally we will breed them but we do not have a buck right now (they have not been bred in almost 2 years).



toth boer goats said:


> I am so very sorry.
> 
> I really put the blame on the vet, for giving a goat a oral dog pill for worms.
> Too much time went by for accurate treatment for her issue and what that did was, make her worse and beyond treatment.
> ...


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> I really put the blame on the vet, for giving a goat a oral dog pill for worms.


i dont know why a vet would do that....



21goaties said:


> This kind of thing makes you want to get out of goats.


Dont give up on goats.... when they pass it makes us sad, but when they are alive and well, they bring us joy and happiness. Im so sorry you had to go through that and we all wish that she could have gotten better.This kind of thing sucks and we all wish it didn't have to happen to you or her but she is no longer suffering.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> but unfortunately, that vet is not smart in goats.


Not many vets are


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Truly sad isn't it.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> Truly sad isn't it.


yes


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