# boers question



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I'm not sure if I would be better posting here or show forum. Anyway, here goes. Does anyone have some boer buck pics (that aren't 'stacked' but more in a natural stance) that are champion or doing well showing. Like, I can't remember his name on here- the judge, said you can manipulate while "standing/stacking" but seeing them move is more accurate. Showing dogs, you could manipulate while stacking; but seeing them in a natural stance was more accurate. 
Front, side and rear views if possible of very quality goats in natural setting would help me become better at judging or evaluating goats. 
thank you for anyone who may have these.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Are you still looking for photos of a show buck in natural settings. My best friend has a buck that has all his points to be Enobled and as she is also my next door neighbor I can get pictures for you tonight. Just remember that he is not in show condition right now as he is breeding.

Actually you can see him in show condition on their website at http://www.freewebs.com/boersandmore/ he is Bold Spot at the bottom of the page.


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

yes actually I am, when ever you have a chance that would be great, thanks


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

LOL I just sent you a message. If you want I can get pictures of both the older buck Bold Spot and the younger one Udder Chaos if you would like, they even have a third buck that is pretty nice as well.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

I snapped a few quick pictures late yesterday afternoon of Bold Spot, will get more this evening of Udder Chaos as he is still in show condition.

Please remember that Bold is not in show condition right now...as he has been earning his keep. LOL


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

This is Bold in show condition..last year


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

thanks misty for all the pics. Is he shaved for show?


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Udder Chaos is, he just came back from a show this past weekend, where he placed Reserve Junior Grand. 

To give you an ideal I snapped this shot when he came home on Sunday..


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

RNSH OneFourRichie. He did well in a few shows before we got him.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Nancy, what a pretty boy. I love the black headed boers.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Aww thanks Mistyblue. Bold is a handsome hunk & whole lot more blocky!
Four is American. I really prefer traditional but he should even out the big ol traditionals does.


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

when you say even out the big ol traditional does, can you clarify? Also, I read a post at one time, by the guy who is a judge, and he said something about tubular vs. old or new style?? Can someone explain and maybe show a picture of tubular and old or new style??
thanks guys


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

I will try to answer this as I understand it, but hopefully one of the boer breeders will answer as well. To my understanding tubular is just how it sounds long and kinda round, I always picture a link of sausage - LOL. Able Acres has a nice enobled buck that is tubular here is the link to him http://www.tctc.com/~amfuture/archive/boer_goats_Sourcerer.html. Very very nice buck.

The old style I would say is almost more course in some ways, they seem heavier, and are rangier looking like Bold Spot. Here is a link to EGGS Boers http://www.eggsboers.com/ennobled.html

Please I am still learning to, so if I do not have this right please let me know. Thanks


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I like the links thanks, that is kind of what I was thinking but I wanted to be sure. I'll have to take some pics of my dirty boy, I'm going to say he is 'old style'.
Does anyone currently showing boers know is the tubular what is earning their 'points', or like dog shows, is it more certain judges prefer one style over the other?


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Mistyblue you got it! Your examples of tubular & traditional are spot on!

Clearwtrbeach the assosiations seem to prefer the more "elegant" ultra femine does & "pretty" bucks.
It's just my opinion but I like my does big boned & bucks with lots of mass.
It's probably one reason my does dont do that great in the ring.
Not a huge goal of ours but it's lots of fun.
Let's see if I can show you another pic taken today, one of the buck & a doe I love for her mass.
She is 2 & he 9mos.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Lol thank you Nancy...so sitting with my friend ever night and listening/talking goats with her must be sinking in.

Like you I like the bigger boned goats. Your girl is beautiful!


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

mistyblue said:


> I will try to answer this as I understand it, but hopefully one of the boer breeders will answer as well. To my understanding tubular is just how it sounds long and kinda round, I always picture a link of sausage - LOL. Able Acres has a nice enobled buck that is tubular here is the link to him http://www.tctc.com/~amfuture/archive/boer_goats_Sourcerer.html. Very very nice buck.
> The old style I would say is almost more course in some ways, they seem heavier, and are rangier looking like Bold Spot. Here is a link to EGGS Boers http://www.eggsboers.com/ennobled.html
> Please I am still learning to, so if I do not have this right please let me know. Thanks


You are not wrong. Especially if you are using "tubular" to help you
visualize it, but breeding stock Boer breeders might take offense to 
the word. Notice Sourcerer is quite deep bodied as well as being long.
"Tubular" is usually what boer breeders will call boers bred for the
competitive wether shows. Those goats don't have much depth
of body to them and wouldn't do well at an ABGA show. 
Also, I would not call Spot "old school traditional". He's clean fronted
and he's got that "rocket taking off" look to how his neck and head
come out of his shoulders. Nice buck.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

We purchased wether maker bucks from Able acres, and they are leaner and more tubular than open show bucks for ABGA shows.

First picture is of Goldman just a couple months ago in his working clothes, and around 18 months old, The other two pictures are of Goldman and one with Prooved It, also the same age, When they were around 7 or 8 months old. They were still conditioned well from The feed that Able ACres uses. We don't feed show feed to our adult animals, so in the first pictures he is on a couple lbs of pelleted goat feed a day, but othewise pasture condition. You can still see his nice shape. He has 13 ennoblements in his pedigree.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Tenacross, you are so right, got a lecture last night on the difference from my friend. LOL So maybe not as much info has sunk in as I thought.

20kidsonhill, I love his face, what a nice buck. Is he giving you some good wethers yet?


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

OK a few pictures of Udder Chaos as promised


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Very nice Mistyblue.

We got him late in the year, so he only had a couple does left that he was able to breed. So not much to work with and they were young for our fairs, born in March. But one of them did win light weight champion at a nearby fair that had near 100 goats in attendance. We were happy with that. Especially considering the dam was a 75%Boer/ 25% nubian and not one of our better lines. Here is a pictue of the wether.

Wether is to the left of the tree, and his sister is to the right. She is living at her new farm in WEst VA. 
And the 2nd picture is of the wether.


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Congrats on your win, that is a very nice boy. Love that doe, to bad she is already sold.


----------



## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Gotta admit, I don't like the tubular and ultra feminine style. It might look pretty for the show ring, but there's no way they could ever put a good carcass on the rail, which is what these animals are supposed to be bred for.

Of course, that's pretty much my beef with 99% of breed shows across all species, dogs and horses being the absolute worst. Nothing inherently wrong with breed shows, everything wrong with people taking a single winning feature and pushing it to the extreme. It can be ignored as harmless (boers) until it results in abuse (WP, TWH, GSDs).


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't like the tubular look either, IMO it makes them look the opposite of what you imagine when you think of a boer buck - long, and thick, big chest, lots of meat.
I am of course no pro and no pro at conformation either, but I know what I like when I see a buck, and tubular is not something I like. For the does, I am 'okay' with the tubular look as long as they don't go too extreme on it, but again, I think a lot of nice qualities are taken out of the mix with where they want the breed to head for show.


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Thanks for all the pictures guys. I'm going to have to go take another look at my guys. I'm going to say my boy is more traditional as well as one of the girls. I'll try and get pics up and see what you all think, I have to weather roof two of the shelters today as well as a few other prewinter 'stuff'. When I got both of these goats at the beginning of summer their feet were horrible, so I've been doing a little at a time. They are due again so bear that in mind when I do get the pics up. 
I guess so far I'm looking at it as show people are going to want the 'newer clean' style. I am leaning toward old style, if I"m correct in my theory, as they were a hard meat breed originally. 
I think I understand the difference in theory, but I'll have to practice more on looking at an individual animal that may be close blend. If for example you've ever seen a english springer spaniel that is show from show lines, vs field lines there is often a noticeable difference.


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

[t can be ignored as harmless (boers) until it results in abuse (WP, TWH, GSDs).[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I know what the above part means??


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Actually here are some pics from when I first got them. Mind you both were really fat and have since slimmed down and look much better. They were in a temporary pen, and the buck unfortunately was de-horned. Both are 3 yrs old and were originally bred by the same breeder. Big momma as we call her is 75%boer 25% nubian, the buck is FB. Let see if I can attach these pics right. We are breeding right now for our own meat. I'm hoping next year to get more quality animals that will be actually for sale.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

It is a little hard to see the buck. Is he dehorned? She is a big boned doe for being 25% nubian. Did you already say how old they are and I missed it?


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Yes they are 3 yr both 2009 kids. Yes unfortunately they dehorned him  I'll try and get a better pic of him today while I'm feeding. Yep, she's 25% nubian ( I believe) the gal had her mom at 50% and reg NOA. Her dad is Circle B's Winchester. who is out of Rollin' sage's ferdinand * Winchester is a nice looking goat, trying to get a pic of him. The buck's dad is Circle B's Magnum sired by Capriole's T37


----------



## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

clearwtrbeach said:


> [t can be ignored as harmless (boers) until it results in abuse (WP, TWH, GSDs).


I'm not sure I know what the above part means??[/QUOTE]

Basically, breed show extremes can range from harmless changes (the tubular look certainly isn't hurting boers, just reducing usefulness) to abusive, such as Tennessee Walking horses and stacks/chains/soring (the other two were harsh training methods for AQHA western pleasure/hus and German Shepherds with hip displaysia, both of which are harmful extremes brought about by what wins in the ring).


----------



## HamiltonAcresBoers (May 9, 2012)

nancy d said:


> Mistyblue you got it! Your examples of tubular & traditional are spot on!
> 
> Clearwtrbeach the assosiations seem to prefer the more "elegant" ultra femine does & "pretty" bucks.
> It's just my opinion but I like my does big boned & bucks with lots of mass.
> ...


I prefer my does to be big boned as well. I really like the tubular, elegant bucks though. My girls do well in the shows, but maybe they just like the big girls in kansas


----------



## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Gottcha, I think the tubular are pretty, particularly in the does. However, I, being me, want to stay a little more traditional. Totally understand the walking horse, as well as the shepards. My english bulls and Bouviers were tested and certified in all areas, ie hips, elbows,, eyes, and later as in Bouviers hearts. Conformation certainly has it's reason no denying that, I was in that arena my self. As you say, as long as the changes don't negatively affect what the animal was originally bred to do. In Europe (if I remember correctly it's been some time), dogs were not championed until they met conformation AND what the breed was originally meant to do (ie herding etc).


----------



## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I love Udder Chaos! Very pretty buck . Does your friend have a website?


----------



## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

Yes she does...it is not up to date or even very informative but it will give you some info. http://www.freewebs.com/boersandmore/ She is always happy to answer questions or talk goats.


----------

