# Breeding: When and How?



## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

I want to know how you guys breed your does!
What breed do you raise?
How old/big do they have to be?
What time of year do you breed?
How do you breed? Driveway breeding? Leasing a buck? Do you own your own?
What makes you breed younger or older?Experience? Research? 
Im hoping to get a lot of answers! Feel free to include pictures and stuff!
Also, I should add that I live in Maine, so we get cooold winters


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

I raise Boer's! A few of them are crossed with Pygmy's.
2 years! So it gives their body plenty of time to grow.
Late October, so they kid in March!
I own my own buck, it just seems the best for my set up! If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

Iluvlilly! said:


> I raise Boer's! A few of them are crossed with Pygmy's.
> 2 years! So it gives their body plenty of time to grow.
> Late October, so they kid in March!
> I own my own buck, it just seems the best for my set up! If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!


Some people breed at 8 months so the does don't get fat before breeding? Have you had any problems with this? 
And I just have a few does, so I not sure what method of breeding I will do... we will have our hogs butchered by November, maybe 4 hog panels would hold a Nigerian buck? probably too short.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

We raise boers. 

Typically, we breed 13-18 months. We will never breed anything under a year.

We breed whenever. This year, we are breeding 3 groups: Aug, Oct, and Dec for Jan, Mar, and May kids.

We own several bucks to make breeding extremely easy and to have plenty of options.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Kass said:


> Some people breed at 8 months so the does don't get fat before breeding? Have you had any problems with this?
> And I just have a few does, so I not sure what method of breeding I will do... we will have our hogs butchered by November, maybe 4 hog panels would hold a Nigerian buck? probably too short.


If you feed them according to their body condition, i have never had a problem with them being to fat( i would recommend reading this:https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/2019/04/02/what-to-feed-your-goats-a-detailed-diet-explanation/)! I don't have any experience with Nigerian's, sorry! I do know though that some people prefer leasing buck since they have a few goats, and it's less expensive than buying one!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I didnt buy a buck until we had multiple different does to breed. I did driveway breeding for a whileI raised Nigerians and LaManchas for a while. Always bred in the fall so they would kid when I was out of school. 
I know different breeders in Maine, where are you located?


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> I didnt buy a buck until we had multiple different does to breed. I did driveway breeding for a whileI raised Nigerians and LaManchas for a while. Always bred in the fall so they would kid when I was out of school.
> I know different breeders in Maine, where are you located?


I live in Lisbon Maine. Im planning to breed my Nigerian and Nigerian/sannen to a Nigerian buck this November (for April kids) if they are big enough. A friend has a buck we can use. The Nigerian would be 10 months. the Nigerian/saanen will be 8 months. I have a Nubian as well that will be 8 months. If she is big enough I may breed her. 2 out of the 3 of them will be bred. Depends who's ready.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

For me eight months just isnt old enough. Someone on hear said that one month equals one year in humans. Would you want an 8-year-old child to have a baby? Is there any reason you want to breed young?


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## HungryFox (Feb 6, 2020)

We operate first and foremost as a homestead, and so we want milk year round. This was the biggest selling point on Nigerians as they have heat cycles like...well, humans?
We ALSO are heading into standards and Minis, and so I will be drastically altering breeding schedules. Standards have a window roughly October to February, give or take, for heat cycles.
Between both breeds, we can have a doe freshening every few months year round.

I do indeed own our own bucks. Previously, we just shacked him up with the ladies and let him have at it. At this point, one must be more selective as there is not always one pen that can accommodate just the one buck and girl/s to breed due to space, and we have multiple genetic lines to select from. It may come down to scheduled "dates" or utilizing the stall in the barn for the selected duo and observing for a few good actions.

For Nigerians, I want my does at 12 months of age MINIMUM as well as 40lb minimum. I have culled a few does that were not quite up to growth (they are still growing at that age, but i want to favor genetics that could be ready at 1yr) because the Nigerian bucks we intended to pair with were on the bigger side. Doesn't mean those does at 18 months weren't ready or could be used with a smaller Nigerian than we had. In fact, sold a trio to a friend of mine who just wanted the back yard goat milk experience. That buck is smaller, doe was real petite, and 2nd doe had a nice kid with that buck previously. I'm not worried about that pairing whatsoever.

My first goat mentor raised all standard dairy breeds. She told me that in her 20+ years with goats, even if the standards were 80lb minimum at 1yr, they simply didn't produce enough milk to make it worth it vs the toll on their body and tended to have more kidding issues. Waiting to 18 months to breed produced significantly better results.
Now, I learned much good and bad from this mentor. Knowing what i know now, their nutrition and coccidiosis prevention shoukd have been better (beside failure of disease control.) I imagine other breeders of standards do meet 80lb at a year and have excellent results. But, I will indeed take her advice into consideration when looking to breed my standard gals. My February born MiniSable will likely follow Sable heat cycles and so I won't breed her until the fall/winter after she turns 1, puts her over 18 months.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

Goatzrule said:


> For me eight months just isnt old enough. Someone on hear said that one month equals one year in humans. Would you want an 8-year-old child to have a baby? Is there any reason you want to breed young?


I would be willing to breed young because I have seen Many people who breed young and have had no problems. They believe that waiting until the second season just grows them up to be fat. I know of farms who have a standard of 8 months and they're goats grow as good as anyone else's. They even took twin sisters and bred one the first fall, and one the second fall, and they had equal results. A few standards that have had good results are 40-45lbs and 8 months for Nigerians, and 80lbs and 8 months for full size. My Nigerian, Tilly, her mom was bred her first fall, and is one of her owners( where I bought Tilly) best moms. 
As a bonus, Tilly (Nigerian) had a half Nubian Mother or Grandmother ( I forget which), so that may boost her size a little. My Nigerian/Sannen, Willow, would only be bred to a Nigerian and should be plenty big enough, being half full-size. So these 2 shouldn't have a problem. If Stella (Nubian) needs to wait until next year, I will defiantly do that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:2c:Other reasons to wait until a year or a little older is they are more mature in the head to care for babies. And it lessons the chance of disowning babies.

At a year or older, they are grown enough to not have complications with giving birth naturally and will be big enough to grow babies in volume/space.

Breeding too young can possibly stunt growth, if she does not get proper nutrition. 
To support her and her babies within. 

C sections happen when the pelvis is too small from being too young, her babies may be to big or she may not have enough dilation.

Youngsters grow the most within 1 year. So if they are Pregnant, most of her resources go into her babies and not her.
We should feed her good feed throughout her pregnancy. 
However, think of this, if you feed too much, so she can grow at the same time as she has to nourish her babies, we risk over feeding her causing extra big kids, which will create a C section. There is a fine line if they are bred too young.

Just my :2c::2c:


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## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

I breed nubian goats. I wait until they are 18 months old to breed so I know they are done growing and I know they are ready mentally for raising babies. Back when I bred my babies at 8 months I would get a lot of stuck babies and malpositioned babies, when I talked to a friend that had owned goats a lot longer then me she said to think of 1 month as 1 year for a doe, so if your doe is 8 months old she is only an 8-year-old girl when she gets pregnant. It's really hard on their young bodies to have babies that young. I also noticed that the younger the doe the more confused she was when she had babies and a lot of the time it took days for her to fully bond with her baby and that took up a lot of my day trying to get the babies to nurse.

I own my buck because people around here don't like to shear and I don't trust people when they say their animals are clean of all diseases.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

A lot of you are saying to wait to avoid her not being able to push big kids. This is what breeding would look like
1- Nigerian Doe ( A half Nubian Mother or Grandmother) + Nigerian Buck
2- Nigerian/Saanen cross + Nigerian 
3- Nubian + Nubian or Nigerian
So you see the first two have some lineage that may cause them to be big enough to allow them to carry Nigerian kids. The last one may need to wait until next year. That is fine. If they are not ready I will wait.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Toth has a good point of the doe not being mature enough mentally to raise and care for kids. I have experienced that with a doe who got bred accidentally. Its was like a teen mom, wasnt mentally mature enough to care for something that wasnt herself. 
Personally, I have never heard of having overweight does if you wait and I've been pretty heavily involved in showing dairy goats. Even National ADGA recommends waiting. 
Being bred with a nigerian buck doesn't guarantee that the kids wont be too big. The kids could take after the standard breed genetics.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

I got some of my information from Blue Cactus Dairy Youtube channel about breeding Nigerian Dwarfs. 
And for the mental age thing. The breeder I got Tilly from bred Tillys mom her first fall at 8 months. And she is one of her best mothers. But everyone is different


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

What breed do you raise?
Boers
How old/big do they have to be? 
For the most part mine are about 18-19months old. But that’s because when I keep the doe kids are replacements when breeding comes along they will either be 7-8 months old or 18-19 months and 7-8 months old is too young. If I purchase one as long as she is 12 months I’ll breed it. I really haven’t had anything not be big and wide enough by a year to not breed unless they had a rough go of it which are few and far between and defiantly not one that I have purchased. 
What time of year do you breed?
Now lol I go for December kids but I went ahead and went a little bit before schedule this year.
How do you breed?
Every buck has their own field/ pen with their ladies and they stay together for about 3 months
What makes you breed younger or older?
Experience. I have done it all, the 7 months 70 pounds all the way up to 18 months old. All is usually fine with the 7 months, they can usually push kids out fine, but if not it is a bit snug to get kids out. They were always great mothers, the issue I had was since they are still growing and then have these kids to support if I didn’t part them off and pour the feed to them then I had thin does with blah kids. I don’t want to have 500 pens with different goats and feeding needs or the extra expense of having to feed them large amounts of grain. I have debated off and on about giving it another go and only letting the doe raise 1 kid and pull the other but I keep going back to if it’s working don’t mess with it lol


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I have done both - and will never breed a doe that is that young. Even though the delivery can go well, the toll on these does both physically and mentally is not worth it. Your does will not get fat if you are feeding properly. I am in no hurry to stress the doe just because I want kids now. Answer yes you can do it - but IMO not what is best for the doe - she is my primary concern to keep healthy and growing - I don't want to be hurrying the doe along just because I want kids.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

A lot of these comments didn’t show up when I posted! So I’ll post some more lol 
Honestly with being new to goats and breeding I say wait to breed them. Try and get some almost for sure easy kiddings under your belt and watch them grow. I am not a judgy person, I know many people that do breed younger and I know many people that wait to breed them. I don’t think anyone is really wrong. But kidding and raising kids, the fruit of all your work, can be the most rewarding thing or it can be the most frustrating thing. And not just the whole kidding part. It sucks when your kids that you had such high hopes for dont amount to much no matter how much you feed, or your doe just can’t keep the weight on. Some people don’t have these issues breeding young, I’m not saying everyone does, but not every place is the same. Some people have awesome genetics that the animals can stay fat on air, some don’t. Some the animals are basically at their full size at 7 months, some are not. So that’s why my suggestion is to just sit back and see what happens first with older does first. 
For the good mothers or not I honestly think they either have that strong mothering instinct or they don’t.......for the most part! I say for the most part because if they do have a rough delivery I think that does play a part in it, and a smaller doe has more of a chance of a rough delivery. Heck this last kidding I had a 9 year old doe that had always been a great and attentive mother, and she was one I bred at about 8 months old, but she had a rough delivery and my attentive motherly doe was a total turd! She never tried to clean the kids, she didn’t care if they cried wanting mom to love on them or even feed them. She was tired and sore and for the first time really just didn’t give a crap about her kids for the first few weeks.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

We care about the well being of animals and are only advising, it is isn't the best for the younster. 
So don't take it wrong. 
We are trying to help. ;(


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

toth boer goats said:


> We care about the well being of animals and are only advising, it is isn't the best for the younster.
> So don't take it wrong.
> We are trying to help. ;(


I understand. I _kinda _asked for it when I made the Thread! So heres the new plan
Fall: See if Tilly is ready to breed in November. She will be 10 months old.
Spring: See if Willow will breed for Fall kids. She might.. she _is_ part Nigerian. She would be 12-13 months old. 
Next Fall: Breed Stella and Tilly if all goes well.
Now this is a rough guess. Ill probably change my mind a couple times between now and then, but this is what I'm thinking. (scary, I know!) 
Anyway, as it gets closer to breeding season, I will send pictures and updates and stuff.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Hey I breed Boer xs , Boers & Myotonics(fainters). I dont breed before 1 year old. Sorry..but to me thats the magic age. And then only if that doe is a body score of 3.5 to 4. I cant say 80lbs..cause my myos some are minis
They top out at 60 lbs. Lol 
My question are YOU ready? What catastrophes are you ready for? What building do you have for the worst kind of weather and worst case birthing? To be fair..the does depend on us to be ready to help her and keep the little ones alive. 
I watch my does and how they grow and intereact with.the buck
Yes I put him in with a few does and aproned for a day or two. He will bring them in..and he gets them for a month. Some does & bucks dont do well. Ive had to pull a doe and put her with a different buck. I dont like any one hurt. 
My does go into a paddock with my buck for a month. He gets 5 at a time. For about 3 months. That way if any doe doesnt take the 1st month..she gets a 2nd try. By the end of 3 months..my boys are ready to be put back.into their own.place. the women have worn them out. They get thin and cranky..so the boys need to go get cleaned up and put eating first. Lol. And for me..I have groups delivering about 2 to 3 weeks apart. 5 does at a time. Thats how I am set up.


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## HungryFox (Feb 6, 2020)

Kass said:


> I got some of my information from Blue Cactus Dairy Youtube channel about breeding Nigerian Dwarfs.
> And for the mental age thing. The breeder I got Tilly from bred Tillys mom her first fall at 8 months. And she is one of her best mothers. But everyone is different


OH
Well that makes sense.
Blue Cactus does a few "things". She takes excellent care of her herd and I do not write this with disrespect.
Her genetic lines are on the bigger side for Nigerians. With the exception of that one little black doe, they hit 40lb by her 8ish month mark.
Blue Cactus pulls her kids at day 3. She does not have her does raise kids. Her kids are literal cash cows for the breeding program. Their mothering abilities do not matter whatsoever, and she is unintentionally or otherwise breeding out mothering instinct.
Her does are milked from freshening to breeding only, approximately Feb/March to Sept/Oct. I haven't worked with her lines personally so I don't know if their lactation could be sustained much longer, although it seems they easily could head to 1yr lactation. Standard breeds can hold 2yr.
Her goats must be retired earlier due to the stress placed on their bodies.

So, I like Blue Cactus. Her videos are far more informative and correct than any other goat related YT I have watched (looking at you, Weed em and Reap!) But, her practices are not necessarily mainstream, or perfect, and they are absolutely 100% different than the more holistic approach taken on my farm.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

HungryFox said:


> OH
> Well that makes sense.
> Blue Cactus does a few "things". She takes excellent care of her herd and I do not write this with disrespect.
> Her genetic lines are on the bigger side for Nigerians. With the exception of that one little black doe, they hit 40lb by her 8ish month mark.
> ...


I see! 
I am guilty of getting my information from Weed em and reap and Blue cactus! 
When I found that video I thought I had hit the jackpot! I couldnt find the breeding size, weight, hight, age requirements for breeding ND's anywhere else! No direct answers on Youtube, websites, or this forum (no offense). Everyone just said "older is better" and "8 months is too young!" She was the only very comprehensive answer I could fine, so I stuck to it!
Now that I know that they are not 100%, Is there anyone you would recommend? I have looked on websites, but they generally are vague, and directed at the very goat-ignorant cant-goats-eat-everything people. Can you recommend trusted sources?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You are actually on a very good source of getting good information. There are quite a few Nigerian breeders on here, plus the one thing that I like about this group is you get a lot of different point of views and you can pick and choose what would work best for you and your setup, management, and goals. Everyone on here is willing to help


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

We breed NDs and prefer to wait until they are a year old. However, we make our decisions on an individual basis. This past year we had two does we bred at under a year of age. They were both quick maturing does, both physically and mentally. Both were the size of their dams when bred (one was 11 months, the other was 10 months). They both are excellent mothers. The one had kidding issues, but I think it was related to a hard hit she took a couple days prior to kidding (two DOA, one live, had bloody brownish discharge and I should have called my vet out). 

Our other yearlings were not as quick to mature. We held off on breeding them until they were a year old. 

As far as our breeding set up, we keep bucks and does separate. When the doe we want to breed comes into heat, she goes on a date with the buck. Usually it is a quick date, then they’re rebred 12 hrs later. Works well for us and we have exact breeding dates.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

I have mostly nigerians, with a few nigi/nubian crosses. 
I bred a 23 month old doe to a very small Nigerian buck. Ended in 3 dead babies, and I will probably never breed her again, because she literally has PTSD, and will not step FOOT in (or near) the kidding pen. She was bred with a very small Nigerian buck, he is 1.5 years old and barely 40 pounds. She is my baby, so she will just get to live out her days here on the farm. 

I usually tell people 18 months though, because personally, I don't think Cricket had problems because she was too young, because she most certainly was not. I just think she had bad luck. Something just wasn't right. 

Just keep in mind that every goat is different. Personally I think 8 months is WAYYY too young and could end even worse than Crickets birth. DEFINITELY wait until at LEAST 18 months.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

My herd is Nigerians. Personally I will never breed before 16-18 months and it depends on the doe. I had a 14 month old doe have an oops breeding and I luted her because she wasn't ready physically or mentally. She'll be bred this august or September if I am able physically able to care for my herd. Otherwise she and my two others will wait till I am.
My suggestion is breed the one but leave the two younger ones grow and mature.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I breed Nubians. I have bred in the beginning at the 8months and 80 pounds - won't do it again. Very hard on does that are not mature, bone development can suffer. Pic of a doe I held over from 2019- she will be bred in October - she will be 17 months and is not fat.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I, too, live in Maine.

What breed do you raise? Nubian, Lamancha and Nigerian Dwarf right now. Have had Alpines, Oberhasli, Saanens, Pygmies, Boers and a grade Toggenberg in the past.

How old/big do they have to be? 60+ pounds, 1 year old for Nigerians, though I normally wait until they are in their 2nd fall. Standards- 80 pounds minimum, age depends on their size. I have some that are HUGE their first fall and I breed them to my Nigerian buck. Others, I wait until their 2nd fall. Before I got my Nigerians, I would breed them to a buck of their own breed. I never had kidding issues when I bred them their first fall.

What time of year do you breed? Fall. I used to breed starting in August, but my job hours changed, so I could not always be there when they kidded in January or February, so now I wait until mid to late October to breed.

How do you breed? Driveway breeding? Leasing a buck? Do you own your own? I own my own and hand breed each doe so I know roughly when they will kid.

What makes you breed younger or older?Experience? Research? Experience/Judgement . I have been raising goats for 38 years. Back when I started, it was common practice to breed their first fall. Now, I just go by the does size and genetics. If she is from a line that are late bloomers, they are skipped over that first fall. Likewise, if she is on the smallish size even if she is 80 pounds, she will wait until her 2nd fall. My huge behemoths are bred their first fall, though at the tail end of her heat cycle, as in January/Feb, and I now breed them to my Nigerian bucks because I am changing over the Minis, anyway.


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## Spidergoat (Oct 11, 2018)

The ADGA does not recommend waiting to breed doe kids when they are older. It states: “If breeding doe kids is postponed much beyond 10 months of age, they will be less productive. Older kids are not as easily settled at first breeding and may have lower lifetime productivity.” 
I personally have tried waiting until kids are a year or older and have tried 7-10 months. I haven’t had any better success with the older kids. I always wait breed my does until it is late November because I live in a cold place over 6000 feet above sea level, and the snow leaves around the middle of April.


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## CecilandNellie (Aug 17, 2014)

I have mixed dairy. Mixes to provide the best milk for cheese. We have used one year or 90 pounds as time to breed, but I am much more comfortable with waiting until 15 to 18 months. The dairy girls seem a little delicate for kidding when bred at 90 pounds and take a little time to come in to good milk. I usually bring the does to the barn to kid and take the kids immediately (which means bottle feeding). Eight does kidded this spring. I love my goats, but if anyone sees me talking about breeding more than 3 this fall - please say STOP! Cute is not a reason to have 30 goats and no commercial use for the milk. (Hard to sell dairy for meat).


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

Spidergoat said:


> The ADGA does not recommend waiting to breed doe kids when they are older. It states: "If breeding doe kids is postponed much beyond 10 months of age, they will be less productive. Older kids are not as easily settled at first breeding and may have lower lifetime productivity."
> I personally have tried waiting until kids are a year or older and have tried 7-10 months. I haven't had any better success with the older kids. I always wait breed my does until it is late November because I live in a cold place over 6000 feet above sea level, and the snow leaves around the middle of April.


Yes! I thought I read that somewhere, but didnt want to say it in case I was remembering incorrectly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not true.

I cannot express this enough, do not breed before 1 year old.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Kass - if you reach out to breeders who show, you will find the majority hold over kids.... if they weren't productive, they wouldn't be able to have the placings, LA scores, DHIR milk production records that they have. Being pregnant just sucks the minerals out needed for growth in many (not all) cases. If you don't have to breed, I wouldn't...... I'm not a commercial dairy nor do I want to be.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Kass said:


> I want to know how you guys breed your does!
> What breed do you raise?
> How old/big do they have to be?
> What time of year do you breed?
> ...


Hi Kass...
I'm a bit late to the thread but, since I'm here... 
We have 2 Nigerian Dwarf does...they just turned 3 years old (June/July) and this spring was their 2nd freshening. We got them as bottle-babies. When we got them, we were really new to goats (read: knew nothing!) so...I read a few 'goat books' and I asked A LOT of questions...scoured thru the internet and learned some stuff the hard way.

In the case of _when_ to breed the girls...we pretty much went with our "gut-feeling"...

We waited to breed our girls until they were 18 months old and the reason is two-fold...1. When they were a year, they just didn't seem mature enough physically or mentally (to us)...they still seemed a bit "young". Since we gave them another 6 months, they filled out a bit more physically and matured a bit to the point that we felt confident about the timing. 2. Waiting until they were older also worked out timing-wise for us. We bred them in November/December (both times) and had April/May kids so the weather would be nice. We dam-raise the kids until they are 10 weeks old (so much fun!!!!), then they go home with their new families in early summer.

We are fortunate enough to know people that have great bucks and are willing to do "driveway breedings". So far, that has worked out really well for us and we have no plans to change methods at this time.

Hope this helps. 

Here's a couple of pics of my girls with this year's babies... 

PS: Make sure YOU are ready for the babies and all that comes with them. We had no issues last year but, this year gave us a "baby-house-goat" (last pic)...
Due to birthing complications, she had to be brought in before her dam was able to bond with her so...she was our first lesson in "baby-house-goats" (and what NOT to do). We have a couple of good dogs that helped raise her, she thinks she's a dog!


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## Spidergoat (Oct 11, 2018)

I have researched a few more organizations and they all say the same thing 7-10 months, depending on size. It’s more about size than age. Penn State, ADGA, Fias Co farms, etc. Nutrition is extremely important both macro and micro requirements need to be met.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I have done both. I like how my older does are (second summer/fall of their life) body-wise when I breed them. I have 2 that were held over, that just got bred and I like the condition and body size they are at. Same with the one last year. I prefer to wait until at least a year. But the ones that were on the younger side, I never had issues with them. They grew fine, kidded fine. My older doe didn't care to mother her babies, the young were excellent. SO it's dependant I think on the doe.

For us now, I prefer to be a minimum of a year, but I tend to hold over til the next season. Also because I like everyone to be in ONE breeding group. All of mine just bred this month, minus the 3 that are young and probably will wait until next year. 7 kidding and milking I'm thinking is about my limit.

Oh, I also prefer to go by bone structure as well. Looking at the width of their hips/thurls.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

HMNS said:


> Hi Kass...
> I'm a bit late to the thread but, since I'm here...
> We have 2 Nigerian Dwarf does...they just turned 3 years old (June/July) and this spring was their 2nd freshening. We got them as bottle-babies. When we got them, we were really new to goats (read: knew nothing!) so...I read a few 'goat books' and I asked A LOT of questions...scoured thru the internet and learned some stuff the hard way.
> 
> ...


Are those hog panels? If so, did they hold the does well? Have you tried keeping bucks in them? I feel like they would be too short to keep them in, but we have 4 panels, so it would be nice if they would. 
Also, how tall are/were your does? Weight? Im trying to get a sense of how much more my does need to grow before I breed them. I will measure and weigh mine tonight and try to post the results. 
And thanks for answering! It is so fun to read the responses!


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## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

What breed do you raise? Myotonic 
How old/big do they have to be? We breed our does at about 18 months to 2 years
What time of year do you breed? We were breeding in fall for January/February kids (too cold, frostbite). However, switched to breeding in spring and having does kid out in September/October. 
How do you breed? Driveway breeding? Leasing a buck? Do you own your own? I own my own bucks, but have rented a buck from a good friend of mine.
What makes you breed younger or older?Experience? Research? I find breeding for fall kidding works better for us. No risk of frostbite and the does/kids are in better shape for show season.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

goatblessings said:


> Kass - if you reach out to breeders who show, you will find the majority hold over kids.... if they weren't productive, they wouldn't be able to have the placings, LA scores, DHIR milk production records that they have. Being pregnant just sucks the minerals out needed for growth in many (not all) cases. If you don't have to breed, I wouldn't...... I'm not a commercial dairy nor do I want to be.





Kass said:


> I will measure and weigh mine tonight and try to post the results.


So here are the results. As of this afternoon
Tilly: Nigerian dwarf - Age: 6.5 months. Height: 18 in. Length: 18 in. Weight: 29 lbs 
Willow: Nigerian/Sannen - Age: 4 months. Height: 21 in. Length: 19 in. Weight: 32 lbs
Stella: Nubian - Age: 3.3 months Height: 24 in. Length: 25 in. Weight: 53 lbs

PS. Height is from bottom of hoof to top of withers. Length is from base of neck to base of tail. 
We'll see who's big enough to breed by November! Don't worry, if they are not ready, I will wait!


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Kass said:


> Are those hog panels? If so, did they hold the does well? Have you tried keeping bucks in them? I feel like they would be too short to keep them in, but we have 4 panels, so it would be nice if they would.
> Also, how tall are/were your does? Weight? Im trying to get a sense of how much more my does need to grow before I breed them. I will measure and weigh mine tonight and try to post the results.
> And thanks for answering! It is so fun to read the responses!


Hi Kass...
They are fence panels that we get from Tractor Supply. They are really heavy-duty but, easy to move around...about 35 lbs/panel. They are just over 4' tall (50" x 16' long) and are perfect for our goats...the holes on the bottom of the panel are small enough that the babies weren't able to get out either.  I only have does so, not sure how it would hold a buck. The wire is definitely strong enough for a buck but, not sure how high they can jump. If he's a smaller breed (Nigerian Dwarf, Pygmy, etc.) then, I think they would hold him just fine.

It's hard to remember how big the girls were when we bred them the first time at 18 months...pretty close to what they are now I'm guessing. They are Nigerian Dwarfs...the white one with spots (Agnes) stands 19 ¼" at the shoulder and weighs in around 50-55 lbs...the brown with white spots (Sue) stands 21 ¼" at the shoulder and is 55-60 lbs.

 I think it is a lot of fun too!!


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> I breed Nubians. I have bred in the beginning at the 8months and 80 pounds - won't do it again. Very hard on does that are not mature, bone development can suffer. Pic of a doe I held over from 2019- she will be bred in October - she will be 17 months and is not fat.


Oh she's a beauty!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Just a thought. Most does and bucks grow physically about the same rate. Bucks become sexually.active at 3 months. Their bodies are usually too short to accomodate the main breeding does. (Sometimes) but the female , in anatomy, is not ready. Her muscles, reproductive strength isnt accomplished until she is a yearling. Just as an example a 6.month doe..or a 14 yr old girl can get.pregnant..but their bodies are not developed well enough to thrive. Where as a yearling doe or a 21 yr old lady are physically, mentally, and sexual organs are much more capable and.able to reproduce without complications & wear and tear on the does. Just a thought.


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Just a thought. Most does and bucks grow physically about the same rate. Bucks become sexually.active at 3 months. Their bodies are usually too short to accomodate the main breeding does. (Sometimes) but the female , in anatomy, is not ready. Her muscles, reproductive strength isnt accomplished until she is a yearling. Just as an example a 6.month doe..or a 14 yr old girl can get.pregnant..but their bodies are not developed well enough to thrive. Where as a yearling doe or a 21 yr old lady are physically, mentally, and sexual organs are much more capable and.able to reproduce without complications & wear and tear on the does. Just a thought.


Ill keep that in mind. If it gets closer to breeding time and it just doesn't feel right, Ill hold them over.

But this isn't just about if I breed or not... Id love to hear about all your guys's farms!


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## Kass (Apr 26, 2020)

HMNS said:


> Hi Kass...
> They are fence panels that we get from Tractor Supply. They are really heavy-duty but, easy to move around...about 35 lbs/panel. They are just over 4' tall (50" x 16' long) and are perfect for our goats...the holes on the bottom of the panel are small enough that the babies weren't able to get out either.  I only have does so, not sure how it would hold a buck. The wire is definitely strong enough for a buck but, not sure how high they can jump. If he's a smaller breed (Nigerian Dwarf, Pygmy, etc.) then, I think they would hold him just fine.
> 
> It's hard to remember how big the girls were when we bred them the first time at 18 months...pretty close to what they are now I'm guessing. They are Nigerian Dwarfs...the white one with spots (Agnes) stands 19 ¼" at the shoulder and weighs in around 50-55 lbs...the brown with white spots (Sue) stands 21 ¼" at the shoulder and is 55-60 lbs.
> ...


Oh! Cow panels... that makes sense. I was thinking hog panels! I think the hog ones are a bit too short... only 3 ft tall


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