# Kindling Question



## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I've been asking around about this and could use some opinions. My doe got with my buck about a month ago. Today would be 31 days. She's a silver fox. So 3 days ago she dug a deep burrow in her cage. It's a two story chicken hutch that was meant to be temporary until I got her new cage, so it had no wire on the bottom. Yesterday, she filled in the hole. I was thinking she might have kindled in it. There was no signs of fur pulling at that point. Some people were telling me to dig it up, others say leave it be. I left it alone yesterday. Today, I went out and there was pulled fur all over the bottom of the cage. The hole was more filled in and packed tight. Her nest box was untouched and I don't see baby rabbits anywhere. I put the fur into a hollow in the hay in the nest box in the hopes that she hasn't kindled yet and being a first timer, just doesn't know where to do her business. Anyway, should I just leave things alone or dig up the hole and see if something's down there? Who knew rabbit birth would make me so nervous!!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Leave her alone. She is doing what comes natural. We have our rabbits in a group enclosure with a dirt floor. They always bury their babies and we often do no see them until they are 3-4 weeks old. She will bring them out when she is ready. Digging them up may cause her to abandon them.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

If they really are down there, it's going to be a long few weeks. Is it weird she left tufts of fur all over?


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I often find tufts of hair on the ground. And yes, it can be nerve-wracking. Sometimes we will go out at night and see some babies running around only to have them disappear again. Mama will totally cover them. About six weeks they let them stay out. If they come out fully furred; you can move them all if you want to.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I wasn't even sure she was bred. Both the stinkers got out together for a couple days and my buck was just over 4 months. The doe is almost 9 months now, so it's both our first time. I put a couple pieces of straw over the top of the covered hole to see if she moves things around in the night. That at least will make me feel better.

You've also helped me to feel better, so thank you!


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

You can leave them or take them out. As long as the mom is comfortable with you handling them. She only feeds 1-2x a day and usually at night so you won't ever see her with them. Here are some pics of new babies...

Congrats on new babies!!! They are sooo cute and fun to watch when they start moving around.:balloons::stars:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I can touch any of my does babies...they never abandon them but I had heard they could. But my rabbits are friendly and can be pet anytime. 
I also have one that pulls fur for days before she kindles.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

That's what makes me nervous. She's nervous about people. I don't mess with them too much except to feed them. She'll come up to her food bowl and stuff when I come because she knows it's dinner time. But she doesn't really like to be touched. Plus, being her first time, I have no clue how she'll act if I touch the babies. I had every intention on checking on them if they were in the nest box. My real hope is that she was just practicing with the burrow and she didn't really have them yet. That maybe she'll still have them in the nest box. Altogether it was like a fist full of fur I found on the bottom of the cage. I haven't seen any more pulled fur since this afternoon.

Lol. I am so impatient. I just want to see babies and know they are ok! ;-) But I think I'll leave the hole alone and hope for the best. Next time around, I don't think I'll let her have access to digging in the ground. At least until I have more experience. I've only had them since January and these are my first ever rabbits.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Those babies are so cute (for hairless little things!).


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

We have 2 litters due this week, one tomorrow and the next on the 23rd. Heres some with fur! 

Our rabbits are in cages so I made a play pen in one of the old horse stalls so the kids could play with the babies and they could stretch their legs.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Awww, so many baby bunnies. I'm looking forward to seeing some babies hopping around. One of my goats is going to kid sometime in the hopefully near future. Plus my pigs are getting close to breeding age too. I'm going to be in baby animal heaven.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree that if they are buried, to just leave them be. She will bring them out in a few weeks. Ours do the same thing. The does dig a nice hole, line it with fur and straw, then kindles in it and buries them in in-between feedings. It makes mamas feel better that their little ones are hidden and safe. I think it might stress the does out if the kits got dug up. I'm glad you decided to leave them. Now when our rabbits used to be in cages and kindled in nest boxes, I always took them out to be sure they were ok and were being fed. Now that they are in a colony, we leave things to be as natural as possible. It's so much fun seeing the fuzzy little bun buns come out around 3 weeks of age. Oh, they are so adorable!! It will be worth the wait, I assure you.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

I would love to do a colony! Or even just start with a big tractor setup. How do you guys do the colony? Everything I read said they would dig holes and get out.....do you have issues with this? My two momma does fight when we put them into a big area together, so this worries me. How do they all get along?


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Well today the dirt was definitely moved around, possibly dug up and reburied. There were tuffs of fur everywhere, on the ground, on the dirt mound, in the house. Everywhere, that is, that was not the nesting box.  It just seems weird she's spreading around her fur random spots, but not seeming to be putting them in a central location.

I like the idea of colonies too. I want to do that when I get a little more experience. My husband just got done rebuilding our whole animal area, so he's done with building things for now. Lol.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

*Babies!*

Honey had her third litter during the night. 11 hairless squirmy babies!!! YAY!!!
:camera: will have to wait...camera batteries need to charge.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Fur, fur, everywhere.  Silvia was lounging around in the fur and then she went and stood where her hole was/is.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

My experience tells me you have babies underground. If you can catch Mama you may be able to tell if she is nursing. 
We fenced off part of our barn and adjoined it to an outside enclosure. My husband and son then buried dug trenches about 18 inches deep and buried chicken wire. We have had a few escapes (usually babies) but get the holes patched up.
The biggest downfall (besides not seeing the newborn babies) is you really need to keep things clean. Otherwise you end up with cocci and other fecal related problems. We had a die off last year that we thought was going to take the whole herd. But the ones that were left have rebounded and the new ones are healthier than ever. (Our rabbits are for meat and fur not pets and show.) That makes a difference in your emotional investment.
This season we got _lucky? _with a big storm that flooded the tunnels so one mama used the nest box. It is quite a treat for us to see babies.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

This is one who escaped and we did not know who Mama was.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Cute rabbit 

Mine are in an inside enclosure, concrete floor...it's in my garage/barn...lol...we do raise for meat , not pets...my two does get along great.

I would for sure leave yours alone if she is skittish.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

Nice set up NyGoatMom. We raise for meat too. Just started ours in September but they are having such huge litters we had to build a ton more cages. We have managed to sell half of each of the first two litters at butcher weight so the freezer isn't being over run yet. It was really scary having a first time mom with 12 babies. She was all freaked out..didn't feed them for two days. Ended up hunting for special herbs and weeds to feed her, which helped a lot! Hoping with this next litter due in five days it will be smaller. 

Yea I can see the poop building up in a colony situation. There has to be a way to move it around or clean it..Doesn't seem like it would be easy to clean if it's in the dirt. I really want to try the tractor colony! Would be much easier with big litters and so much healthier meat being on good grass and fresh forage rather than just pellets and hay.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

FloatnRockRanch said:


> I would love to do a colony! Or even just start with a big tractor setup. How do you guys do the colony? Everything I read said they would dig holes and get out.....do you have issues with this? My two momma does fight when we put them into a big area together, so this worries me. How do they all get along?


Hi FloatnRockRanch. I've noticed that we have a lot in common.

We have always used cages until this winter when we got so tired of opening 12 cages, 3 latches each, and breaking 12 bowls of ice, and cleaning 12 cages with frozen poop in them, etc. I'd been thinking about going colony style for awhile. We have 2 colonies. One is in the barn, one right outside the barn in an enclosed pen. I'll take pictures tomorrow or Monday to show you all. In the barn colony, we have 4 does and 2 buck pens. Right now our buck is in with the does. He can stay there until they are close to kindling, then we'll put him back in his area. The outside colony has 1 buck and 2 does. They are always together...for now. We think we'll move Victor into the 2nd buck pen in the barn colony.

Yes, they dig holes, but we toss a brick in them if they are on the edge of their area, and they quit digging in it. We also have fencing buried 6 inches deep around the edges, which is very inadequate, but we did that when it was a chicken run and didn't want to change it unless we have to. So far no escapees. 

Our rabbits all get along very well. We've not had a fight yet. I know they are extremely territorial. Did you try putting the does in an area that neither one could have claimed as their own in the past? Our colonies are around 20 x 10 inside and 15 by 8 outside. That is just a guess. So they have lots of room. We also put pallets on top of cinder blocks to give them another level up and one to go under. We covered the pallets with cardboard, then sticks, straw and hay. We made brush piles in both colonies and threw straw on top of them, so they have little caves to go into. They also make rabbit trails all over. We have little houses in each area, too, for them to use for nest boxes or just some time alone, if rabbits like that sort of thing. LOL.

We have black walnut trees all around our farm and worms and such hate them. We don't have any issues with any of our animals having worms. I also give them Molly's Wormer once a week just for back up, because I like to have a back up plan. On top of that, I sprinkle cayenne pepper around once a month or so, which worms hate. So far, so good.

Cleaning their pens is pretty easy. I just shovel the poo out when it becomes a pile. They tend to go in just a few areas.

It's going to be a royal pain come butchering time. Catching the rabbits in the colonies is really hard to do, but nothing a clothes basket or fishing net can't take care of with a little effort.

Besides the work being cut down by about 98%, seriously, we are thrilled with our rabbits change of attitude. They run, hop, twist and turn, kick up their feet and scamper all the time. They are SOOOO happy in the colonies. They run up to us when we enter the pens, they lay in the sun, they hang out in the brush piles...they are just happy. And that makes me happy.

I'll take pictures soon and post them here or in a new thread about colonies.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

I LOVE it!!!! That is soooo cool! Sounds like we do have alot in common...except your much farther along with your homesteading then I am. We are only renting and I wish so much we had our own place. Feels good though to be able to get some things started even if we don't have our own land. My hubby and I would love to go off grid or even just partial out in the hills :-D Happy as a clam with just my animals hubby and kids!

When we first got the two does they were sisters and so we thought we could just make a big cage in an old horse stall for them to live in. Didn't work. The bigger doe started chasing the other doe around and then when we tried to add a new, younger buck. They both chased him and he ended up dying two days later. Needless to say, that was the end of my dream of going with a tractor colony. The DH hated chasing them around trying to catch them and having to buy 2 bucks at $40 ea after loosing the first was a big hit to the wallet. We did save some money building all our own cages and we made pvc pipe stands to hold the cages so we could take it apart or move them easily. Which we have done twice now! We have 16 cages and still had three cages with multiple bunnies after the two does had big litters. 

I would love to see pics! Recipes! and anything you care to share it will be so appreciated.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh GoatieGranny! I so agree with you. When we abandoned the cages and first turned the bunnies loose they were so happy. They were literally doing flips in the air. I could never cage them again. I will try to get pix tomorrow of the holding pen that I designed and my husband built. We withhold food overnight and then there is a sliding door. We put in some alfalfa and when the go for it we drop the door. We can usually get a dozen or so in a few tries.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

FloatnRockRanch said:


> I LOVE it!!!! That is soooo cool! Sounds like we do have alot in common...except your much farther along with your homesteading then I am. We are only renting and I wish so much we had our own place. Feels good though to be able to get some things started even if we don't have our own land. My hubby and I would love to go off grid or even just partial out in the hills :-D Happy as a clam with just my animals hubby and kids!
> 
> When we first got the two does they were sisters and so we thought we could just make a big cage in an old horse stall for them to live in. Didn't work. The bigger doe started chasing the other doe around and then when we tried to add a new, younger buck. They both chased him and he ended up dying two days later. Needless to say, that was the end of my dream of going with a tractor colony. The DH hated chasing them around trying to catch them and having to buy 2 bucks at $40 ea after loosing the first was a big hit to the wallet. We did save some money building all our own cages and we made pvc pipe stands to hold the cages so we could take it apart or move them easily. Which we have done twice now! We have 16 cages and still had three cages with multiple bunnies after the two does had big litters.
> 
> I would love to see pics! Recipes! and anything you care to share it will be so appreciated.


I'm with you! Living off grid would be a dream come true for us, too. (If we could do it and still keep hot showers.  ) You just keep working toward your goals and they will become reality in time. Celebrate every success along the way and learn from the mistakes. You'll look back at these years with fondness when you get old like me. Hahaha.

Yeah, does can get all dominate acting when there is a size difference, or even a personality difference. Lots of space is the key. And the does have to always visit the bucks. A buck going into doe territory can get ripped apart pretty quickly. You probably know all this already, but maybe someone else reading this doesn't yet.

What kind of rabbits do you have?

Good job building your own cages!


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

luvmyherd said:


> Oh GoatieGranny! I so agree with you. When we abandoned the cages and first turned the bunnies loose they were so happy. They were literally doing flips in the air. I could never cage them again. I will try to get pix tomorrow of the holding pen that I designed and my husband built. We withhold food overnight and then there is a sliding door. We put in some alfalfa and when the go for it we drop the door. We can usually get a dozen or so in a few tries.


And I so agree with you! We could never cage ours again, either. It would break their hearts..and mine. It's just a joy watching them run around.

So, the night before butchering, you withhold food, then when you feed in the morning, you grab them out, or do you shoot them through the door?

Do you use your rabbit meat just like you use chicken? We love it in soups, stews, and casseroles. Most people don't even know they are eating rabbit, it tastes just like chicken.

What kind of rabbits do you raise?


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

GoatieGranny said:


> I'm with you! Living off grid would be a dream come true for us, too. (If we could do it and still keep hot showers.  ) You just keep working toward your goals and they will become reality in time. Celebrate every success along the way and learn from the mistakes. You'll look back at these years with fondness when you get old like me. Hahaha.
> 
> Yeah, does can get all dominate acting when there is a size difference, or even a personality difference. Lots of space is the key. And the does have to always visit the bucks. A buck going into doe territory can get ripped apart pretty quickly. You probably know all this already, but maybe someone else reading this doesn't yet.
> 
> ...


:laugh:

Old like you??? I have a boy in the military....oh dont tell him I called hima boy!  Four kids total and 6 years in between them...think that makes me about your age and maybe older! Hehehehe
The hardest part is trying to be patient, and take it one step at a time. Want everything now!!!

We have New Zealand Reds and a Rex buck. We used the Rex buck for our first two litters since the Red buck wasn't old enough yet. The litter just born is full NZ Red...now we have to decide what to do with the Rex. Maybe we could make a small colony and put him with a couple does outside...make the last years of his life happy.

Can' wait to see pics from both of your guys set ups! How do you even know what ones are ready to butcher or how many you have in the colony?


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

It's a crapshoot. We try to be careful to take out young bucks. Sometimes we have so many that we just have to cull. We check the teats of does to see if they are nursing. Once in a while we accidentally butcher a pregnant doe and that always upsets my husband. (I do not have to actually see it. I do the processing after they are dressed.)
Rabbit is wonderful fried or baked. I also cut it off the bone and grind it for burgers, meat balls and it makes a wonderful breakfast sausage. I throw the bones in a pot of water and make broth that I can for later use in soups and stews. The small bones and leftover meat are ground into dog food. The livers are better than any chicken liver! Fried with light breading and onion...........yum. Will try to get pix later today.
Our rabbits are very mixed. We started with some black ones than someone bought as pets and no longer wanted. Then we bought some bigger females. Then we found a large red buck in our yard. After no neighbors claimed it we added him to the harem. We got amazing colors for several years. Then last year something killed off most of them. We never knew what but since we are trying to downsize and retire we just let nature take its course. We were down to only a few and suddenly there were babies who did not die. In only a few months we had bunnies all over the place. After the die off though; they are all either black or red.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Please excuse our cobwebs
First is a shot of the holding box. The little door that the baby is peeking out of slides down. It is connected by twine that is fastened where they can not see us sneak up. (It does not take them long to figure what is going on.) When there are a bunch of bunnies around the food we drop the door.
The others pix are the enclosure from the inside and the outside. There is a door from in to out. We did have to put a roof on the outside pen as we had some cats who developed a taste for young rabbit.:hair:


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

FloatnRockRanch said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Old like you??? I have a boy in the military....oh dont tell him I called hima boy!  Four kids total and 6 years in between them...think that makes me about your age and maybe older! Hehehehe
> The hardest part is trying to be patient, and take it one step at a time. Want everything now!!!
> ...


Hahahaha! Our kids will always be kids, right? (But oh how that bothers us when our parents call US kids!)

Oh, NZ Reds are rare around here. I would love to have one, they're beautiful.

It's pouring outside this morning so I can't take pictures yet. I have the camera waiting by the door, though.

As far as the colonies go, we'll know when the young rabbits are ready for butchering just by keeping an eye on their size. We really don't know the exact number of rabbits that are in the colonies. We don't always know when they kindle, either, but around 2 to 3 weeks, the little ones present themselves to the world when they start coming out of their nest. It's always exciting to see.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

Here are some pictures of our rabbit colony set up. It's still nasty out, not raining, but windy and overcast. The rabbits are mostly snuggied up and not hamming it up for the camera.

This is the inside colony, including the buck pen. I edited my pictures to get them facing the right way, but when I upload them here, they are flipped back the wrong way again. Sorry about that. I'm not real techie.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

And this is the outside colony:


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

Both of you have wonderful set ups! 

How are the babies Mylie?


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I love seeing the pics. You must have very happy rabbits.

No clue. They're either underground or non existant. She stopped pulling fur and just acts like her regular self. Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, if you go out and she is nowhere to be seen; you will know she has gone down with the babies. But they do not do it often and are very quick.
Hopefully, in a few weeks you will be posting pix of baby bunnies hopping around the pen.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

luvmyherd, you have a great set up! It's huge!! I can imagine your bunnies are very "hoppy." (Oh brother. LOL.)  I really like the way you are set up for catching your rabbits, too. Very cool idea!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

After years of terrorizing them with nets I came up with it. So much better for them and us.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

So, Silvia opening up a small hole, about child fist size, in her burrow. It's pretty stinking deep, so the only thing we can see is fur and hay. I picked her up today and felt little nipples on her. I don't know how you can tell she's nursing. There wasn't fur missing, if it's like cats and they loose fur. I am pretty sure there's babies down there because she gets very curious if anyone tries to check out the hole, but it's frustrating not seeing anything yet! When do the babies start hopping around?


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

We saw babies down in the tunnel! There were at least three and one was gray. They were really cute. The opening was bigger, so my sister reached down to her shoulder and still couldn't touch them. Silvia is efficient with her tunneling.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

They will come out on their own between 10 days and 2 weeks, or there abouts. Enjoy!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am glad you could see babies so you know for sure. Our warren is riddled with many long, deep tunnels. And we have black adobe which is nearly impossible to get a shovel into. But gofers and rabbits tunnel through with ease.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

When we went out today, they were hopping around. Silvia rushed them back in the hole when we got close, so I still didn't get a great look at them. I still think there's three, from what I could tell. Silvia is keeping a close eye on these babies. She's making a great mother. It is a relief finally knowing one way or another.

We have mostly clay. I'm sure it makes for great tunnels.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

That is great. I bet they are adorable.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

My sister got some pics of the bunnies today. The count is now at 4, 2 grey, 2 black.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Baby buns. They popped up while we watched quietly. Latest count is 5.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Too cute!


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

The count is up to 6, 3 black, 3 grey. I got a hold of one of them.


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## FloatnRockRanch (Feb 7, 2015)

They look sooo good! So cute! Congrats!


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

They are SOOOOOO CUTE!!!! Congratulations! 

The last litter we had, we walked into the barn to see one itty bitty fuzzy bunny sitting in the food bowl. The next day we saw two, then 6, then 7...and now 10. I think that's it, but it's always so much seeing them for the first time. And they are so small because of the larger litter. We'll have to help mama fatten them up now that they are eating anything that is put in front of them. (They inhale dandelions!)

Enjoy those babies!


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## PygmyGoatGirl (Apr 20, 2015)

They are adorable!  Can't wait for my bunny to have hers in week! ♥


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

luvmyherd said:


> Hopefully, in a few weeks you will be posting pix of baby bunnies hopping around the pen.


 Hey! I'm psychic :!::dance:


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

Kits are growing fast. They are eating feed well and are fat and happy.


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## Dustilin (Apr 10, 2016)

This thread was so fun to read. We have been raising rabbits for a three years now. And have experienced both the caged and the free run way of doing things. In my opinion I prefer the cages. My wonderful husband made a perfect cage run where we can separate the bucks and does. It has a wire bottom for ease of cleaning and a large shelf for relaxing. We can comfortably raise up to 12 in each side. Since we are raising meat this keeps them clean and easy to catch. We process at 20 weeks or when they hit the 7.5-8 lbs mark after processing they average 4.5lbs. Very tender. 
The free run were happy digging and running, but took on average 6 extra weeks of keep to come to weight. I think they were so active that they just used up the feed instead of growing. We also tan the hides and use the fur. The free run were very dirty and for us, probably not going to happen again. 
We have Flemish giant/New Zealand white crosses. Our does throw between 6-12 kits per litter. I have an excellent foster mom. I always breed two at a time, that way I can foster if needed. 5 does, 3 bucks and 1 new silver fox doe. 
I'll attach a picture later.


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## MylieD (Sep 16, 2013)

I gave up on rabbits after almost all of them ran away. All I ended up selling was one female. After the mass break out, I only had the grown buck and a little buck, both of whom I gave to a homeschooling family as their class pets.


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