# Pygmy Goat Kid questions: PLEASE HELP!



## littlepygmy (Aug 6, 2012)

I bought older pygmy goats about two years ago, a male and a female, the male is a wether. Therefore, the male is not able to sire offspring, and we have never owned kids before.

Recently, we bought two pygmy goat kids (On Sunday, and it is now Friday). One is older and has already been disbudded. The other is younger and still needs to have this procedure done. I will be contacting our vet tomorrow.

The seller stated that both of these goats were weaned. I personally think he doesn't know what he is talking about. The older goat is definitely weaned, but I worry about the younger one.

The morning after we brought the goats home, I called the seller to ask and make sure the youngest kid had been weaned. He stated that it SHOULD eat food for us. Blah, blah, blah, in other words: this little goat was NOT already weaned. It was abundantly clear that it wasn't weaned. I was not happy. The seller did not want me to return the goat to give it more time with its mother. He said it would be fine. Maybe he is right? That is what I am trying to find out.

I think this little goat is too young to be away from its mother. I hope someone here will help me to determine if it is or not. I read that a kid should be three months old when it is weaned, and I *HIGHLY* doubt this little goat is anywhere near that age. I wish I had realized this when we were out at the farm. Since we have never owned Pygmy Goat kids before, I took the farmers word for it.

I have read that goats "eat" food, but their bodies do not really process it until their stomachs have had time to develop properly, and that is why they need their mothers milk.

I could not get the seller, who was friendly when we were at his farm, to state on the phone how old the little kid is.

Her horns have not even completely broke her skin on her head yet.

***How old are pygmy goat kids when their horns come in?*** 

After getting off of the phone with the seller Monday morning, I went to TSC and bought a pack of 3 nipples that fit on pop bottles. They are see through, but at the same time, they are kind of white in color. I cut open two of them very poorly on accident and they drain too fast. Fearful, I was hesitant with a needle on the 3rd, and last one. This one drains to slowly in my opinion, but I am afraid to make it bigger and waste it as well.

The goat is still very hesitant to drink in this manner: once her mouth is pried open with my fingers though, she does drink what she can get from the nipple, but she goes at it from the side of her mouth. I can see milk in her mouth, but it still doesn't seem like enough is coming out, even if I squeeze the bottle.

We do see her eating fresh greens (grass/weeds) in the pasture, and rarely taking a drink of water. My concern is: are her stomachs developed enough that she is getting enough nutrition this way?

So far she will not eat GRASS hay. She will not eat the mini alphalpha cubes I bought her (I soak them in water).

So, my last question is:

Is she old enough to not need bottle feeding at this point? I was thinking of buying a different style of nipple that already has the cuts in the top, but don't want to buy one if she doesn't need it.

I was going to upload a photo of her, but m having trouble doing so.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Alot of people, me included sell kids at 8 weeks, by then they are usually eating hay/grian and grass etc. However if her horn buds are just breaking the skin she would seem to be within a feww weeks of being born. Usually they start to break thru anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. Alot of people sell young ones as bottle babies,and it sounds like that's what you will need to treat her as because it sounds like she is better off with you. I need to go back and reread your post to answer rest.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Unless I missed it what are you putting in the bottle? It sometimes is a hard adjustment for them. Try adding a drop of karo syrup or just offer in a bowl and see if she wil drink. You may also want to get som probios in her belly. I am sure others will be on with more advice. Good luck with her


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Awww poor baby  I am so sorry you have to go through this. Wondering, do you have a picture of her? I bet some of the more experienced people on this forum could get a better idea if they could see her/her horn growth.
If her horns are just coming in, sounds like she is way too young to be away from mama. I hope and pray you can get her eating well.
We've sold goats right off the mama, they were eating grass/browse/hay/grain just fine, and never heard any complaints. We have a set of triplets we are selling off of the mama, and they are ready, eating grain really well, etc. 
Weaning is very very stressful especially if the kid can still see mom through the fence <like ours>, so even when you buy a kid that is 'weaned' they still may act like they aren't. Our nearly 6mo kids won't hesitate to run and try to nurse on their mom and we've had them seperated since the end of May. So sometimes saying they are weaned, IMO, you may end up with a kid that doesn't seem to be weaned, or misses it's buddies, etc. having a tough time adjusting to a new home, new people, etc.

But selling a baby that isn't ready to be weaned, is just shameful, and sounds like that is what has happened


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi,

It's hard to say where your doeling is at without being there. :sigh: 

There are many breeders (for Nigies) that sell bottle babies and want them gone sooner than later. The majority of these breeders pull babies at birth and start them on a bottle of sorts for CAE prevention so the babies don't know anything different.

Sounds like your lil one was on mom and lets go with you needing to make her a bottle baby now. What will you be feeding her? I personally only use the goat milk I can find at the grocery store. This is expensive at over $3 a quart. You can also try cow milk. Full on both nothing low calorie. If you have a health food store around can you see if they have goat yogurt? This will be important for your girl I think. Get plain/vanilla goat yogurt and add to milk.

K - now that we've got a good formula. Those nipples. You can buy a human bottle or go with the ones you have. The opening needs to be somewhat open so that milk can flow out ok. I can't think of a size for reference. Maybe like a pencil lead size ..... Biggest thing - is she sucking?

Introducing the bottle could be a challenge that could take days. Just depends on the goat. There are tricks you can try. Having a hungry goat always helps too. Think of how baby eats off of mom. It's a little dark, head it tilted up, and mom's belly brushs up against babies head. You can try feeding her up against you chin, under your armpit, with a towel over her head, rubbing the top of her head ........

For getting that nipple into her mouth. Sometimes I pry their mouths open and then slowly jiggle it around so that she will take it. Sometimes I've dipped the nipple into something sweet. Sometimes I just resort to a syringe without the needle and feed because I need food in them sooner than later.......

The biggest thing is patience. Some just take a little longer to get going. And you don't want milk in those lungs.

Hungry goat that can suck is a big step forward.

Might of forgot something ..... I'm still on my first sips of coffee.  

HTH and let us know where you're at,


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I personally like the Pritchard nipples which are the red nipples on the yellow screw cap (works best with bottles from Pepsi products). You do have to cut the tip off until you see a little hole. Whole milk from the store is fine for them. This little one still needs milk and you just have to be patient and keep working with her.

As far as the horns, when you say not erupted, do you mean that you can't even feel a horn bump or that they don't show through their hair? If there are no bumps at all, then she is really really young.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Baby goats should not be sold unless they are already eating hay and drinking water on their own ... he was probably lying when he said the baby was weaned because weaned isn't just "ready to be away from mom" it means the baby would have already been separated from mom and doing fine.

Do you know how much the baby weighs? Try weighing yourself, then picking the baby up and weighing again ... we may be able to guess age from that. I have Nigerian Dwarf goats, and my four month old one just weighed in at 25 lbs (little fatty =P).


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

The first two nipples may not be ruined...goats like it to flow pretty fast...in a pinch you could try heating up a small knife and heat the end of the nipple and see if you can "fuse" it back together.

Anyway, kids also like their milk pretty warm...almost surprisingly warm...put a little Karo syrup in the milk and on the nipple. Get the nipple in her mouth...from the side...and quickly turn it straight...then kinda poke it in/out (without bringing it all the way out), make sure a little milk gets into her mouth...she should get it before long...but she will probably be a little hungry first.

Please post some pictures, we can usually tell the approximate age. Then we can give better help.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

First off...Welcome.

My babies here have definate horn tips through by 2 weeks, for bucklings the majority have them by 4 days but all by a week old.

I sell kids at 8 weeks but not before they are eating a grain ration, grazing/browsing and eating hay as well as drinking from a bucket.
I tend to raise chunky kids, dam raised and well fed that average a 2lb per week weight gain from birth to 6 weeks, average birth weight is 2.5lbs so most of my 6 week old kids are 13-18lbs and are normally around 25-30lbs when they leave here at 8-10 weeks.
I second the red/yellow screw on Pritchard teats...they work great and I've never had a kid refuse that needed to be bottled.
What are you using in the bottle to feed her? Replacer or Whole cows milk?
Also...are you feeding a goat specific feed? Some kids are more apt to go for a sweet type feed, also...try breaking the alfalfa cubes up into small pieces and feeding them dry...I do give mine the cubes but I break them into flakes and the only time they'll eat them wet is if it's cold out and I use hot water on them.
Weighing her would e easy enough if you do as Wood Haven said, weigh yourself then pick her up...subtract your weight from the combined weight to get hers.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

welcome, :welcome: 

First of all, I want to say GREA JOB on the catch.

I cannot imagine someone selling a baby like this happened. 

I will say that people DO sell them at days old, but they tell the buyer so they can bottle feed the so they don't die. If you can post a picture of this little angle so we can see her. When I had bottle babies I always used Human baby bottles, it is what worked best for us. It took us several tried to find a nipple that they liked, I tried the ones you said but they only liked them once they were older, the red nipples with the yellow screw top, they did not like because they were so small, but I think it would be perfect (hopefully) for a little Pygmy.

I agree, try to get a weight on her so we have a better idea of her age. It will not be perfect, but I think it will be more help than the seller is giving you. :angry: All they have to do is be honest, that is all.

Yes they will nibble on food but really not eat it for several weeks. I NEVER wean my babies until they are 12 week old. Mom is normally starting to wean them anyway. But that is me. 8 weeks is to young for my goats but I believe it has to do with the kind of goats you have. Pygmy, 12 weeks


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Hum, it's hard to say without seeing her... and even then it can be hard to say.

My dwarf kids had horn buds from birth but the horns didn't actually break the surface before we disbudded them. We disbud at about a week old.

Our dwarf kids are usually around 20-30 lbs when they leave here between 8-10 weeks. I had a doe start trying to wean her kids around 7 weeks of age. They were huge and eating well. We left the kids until 10 weeks but mom wanted NOTHING to do with them. She didn't even care when they left. Not really bad mothering.. just very well grown kids. Left here at nearly 30 lbs.

Our kids start nibbling solid foods around 2 weeks old. By 3 weeks old they are eating grain twice daily and out nibbling grass & hay with mom. They also start drinking little sips of water around 2-3 weeks old.

My goats wont touch alfalfa cubes. Even the adults. Our kids are VERY picky. They will only eat one specific alfalfa pellet that is very small. They ignore the bigger pellets.

These are the nipples that work best for dwarf/pygmy goats:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/producer-s ... -2-1019781

It's possible your baby is really young and it has never been introduced to a bottle. Or it's possible it was just taken away from it's mom and needs a few days to adjust. Did the breeder send you with food? It may not be used to the new food/hay yet.

Hope that helps!


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## Shellshocker66 (Mar 19, 2012)

All good suggestions in the above posts. But one question.

I spent 3 weeks waiting for my doe kid to have her horns appear as bumps so I could take her to the vet and be dehorned.

Well she is now 10 weeks old and still no horns because she is polled. Had me really worried as her registration information on ADGA had her as coming from two horned parents. Little digging and some help on here it was quickly determined her dam is polled. Might be the reason you little one has no horns emerging but it sounds like you might be feeling something on her head?

So my time line I picked up the kid and mom when she was 1 week old. 2.5-3 weeks she was nibbling grain and hay, 4 weeks she was going to town on the stuff.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Polled kids will still have horn nubs, they just won't come through the skin. My aunt has to wait until they come through the skin to make sure they aren't polled, as she has two out of three polled bucks.


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