# Yearling.....to breed in fall???



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Well, most of you know that Angel had an "oops" breeding at 4 months old and delivered a beautiful little doe at 9 months old...no problems except for the bitty udder. Angel is next to 3 year old Binky for a comparison on width...already her hip points are a wider distance apart than Binky's....do you think I can breed her in November? She obviously isn't "stunted" by the pregnancy or nursing for 8 weeks and I dried her off as soon as her kid left....do you think she's big enough ?





































Thanks for your input...And I have 2 bucks to choose from...Reg.ND Chief or his son Teddy( 3/4ND+1/4 pygmy)


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh she looks great. I am sure you will see improvement in the udder department this next time around.

November is 6 months away so she still has time even now to grow. I see no issue with breeding her again as she most certainly can handle it 

She is very Nigerian in build and they do fair better then pygmies when bred young as they are built differently and seem to mature better.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Stacey...if you could see her "in person" you can definately tell the difference as she is very nigerian....which is odd that she turned out the way she did! Hank is pygmy and super stocky and her mom is too...save for the gold/white nd coloring and the fact that her sire was nd...wierd how it works out. Angel is slightly cow hocked and has a slightly steep rump...though not as steep as Bootsie, Instead of using Teddy this year and possibly getting pygmy kids because of the pygmy in his mom, I was thinking I'd better have Chief do the deed, she did well with her kid this time out of him...and he's proved to throw small kids....well I do have 6 months to wait and choose! 
See, I stress over stuff that is so far away....sorry rambling.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh I do the same thing. :hug:


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

She looks good to me too. I would think that the fall would definitely be a good time for her.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Ashley, at one time I remember you had said that you don't go by weight when deciding to breed...you go by "thurl"??? That's basically the thigh bone right? Well, with Angel not only are her hip points wider than Binky's but the thurls are wider also....so hopefully this means she's an easy kidder, which since I wasn't present for her birth in February I'm assuming she had an easy delivery.


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## goatstafson (Nov 20, 2007)

I had the same thing happen only in reverse. A doeling had an accidental breeding and delivered twins last September at 10 months old. I milked her briefly after her kids left, but my mid December she was pretty much dry. What I didn't realize at the time was that she was "visiting" my buck through the fence. In February I put her in with the buck to rebreed, but in March she delivered health twins again. (moved that buck so there can't be anymore fence breedings!)

This doe is now my best milker (nigerian) and has a nice udder this second freshening. The first time her teats were so tiny! This time they are manageable!

Anyway, one of the big mistakes that people make in back to back breedings is to overfeed the mother. This results in big kids that are hard to birth and then the back to back breeding is blamed as the reason the mother had issues, when really that had nothing to do with it. My recommendation is to "flush" your doe 3 weeks before breeding by giving her extra grain. This will result in multiple eggs being released at ovulation, increasing the likelihood that she will concieve multiples (which are easier to birth than a single) Keep graining her until she is 6 weeks pregnant and then stop giving grain until after she kids. As soon as she kids, start giving her grain until her lactation is over. Feed a good hay all winter and keep minerals available. 

She is a lovely doe and looks very "Nigerian" to me. Much like one of my does. She looks nice and wide. I think she will be a good little doe to have around!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thank you , Goatstafson!! She is a very sweet girl and I do agree with the over conditioning, though at ths point since she's not milking and probably got the most of her growth over half ways done...she is being fed like my "kids" and dry doe...1/2 cup grain 2xa day and all the browse and hay she wants as well as their minerals, she did such a great job with her baby in February that I know she is really going tobe fine with her next freshning...as you can see by the pics...Binky just turned 3 the beginning of May and Angel a year the 30th of May...I don't think she'll be getting much bigger.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

I don't see any reason why she couldn't be bred this fall for a spring kidding. She looks plenty big this time.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for the re assurance Ashley  ...I feel better knowing that a breeder of top quality ND's would do the same. Also, since I partially clipped Angel I can see that she has some very light cream/goldish areas under all that white!! Surprised me....tosee a goat in pics is one thing but to trul see them in person...Angel is the absolute sweetest and very mild tempered doe...I heard from Julie a while ago and she said that Angels doeling is just the same...easy going and mild tempered....a great thing to pass onto kids and hope she continues to do so in the future.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Its surprising that a goat who looks white in a full coat really rarely is white when clipped. You'll see all kinds of polka dots on their skin. Some really are cream and white instead of white after all. Summer is a great time to see those true colors come through too.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Ashley, she has spots all over her pink tail and even on her tongue and inside her ears! lol...its funny to see those but I haven't come across any on her skin yet though I' sure as she grows they will develop, her light horns even have a dark vertical stripe on the right one....its funny how she is the color she is and her dad is my coal black pygmy buck! I love trimming her hooves too...they're even lighter than my Tilly's but so much easier to see the "do not cut" line! I am really anxious to see if she'll twin next year and what colors they'll be...now to decide to use Chief again by choice this time or to use Teddy, Chiefs son...he looks alot like your one buck, Zeus, with the "blue roan" pattern...o my , such decisions and just 3 months to decide!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I am curious about how Ashley determines when does are ready to breed. By the thurls? Can you please explain a little more on that to me? I was going by weight for now (at least 40 lbs. before breeding). Just curious. . . .


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

I was told by a breeder/judge a while back that he went by width not weight or height. I've got some does who are much taller than others but not near as wide. I personally like the wide does better. I don't normally plan to even consider a doe for breeding before 8-10 months. Really depends on her size and condition. I've got some spring kids this year I don't see being bred this fall and a whole other group I do think will be big enough. So we'll see.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks for sharing. I think I will judge by that more than weight. It makes perfect sense. That may mean I have a young doe that is ready to breed soon. She is pretty wide across the thurls and I think just about 40 lbs. I was surprised she grew so quickly as she was a bottle-baby.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Yeah I have a couple really wide does who are a good few inches smaller than some of my taller doelings. Those taller ones aren't quite ready yet but the wide ones will be very soon. I haven't decided yet when to start considering mine. I haven't really looked at any as possible breeders yet. I can't wait to see those udders though!


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