# How to choose a livestock protector?



## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

We have lots of coyotes in our area and we've lost two cats and two chickens to them. I chased one off a month ago when I caught it chasing my geese (one of the geese died two days later from capture myopathy). The goats are secure in the barn at night but these coyotes come around in the day time as well. I'm considering some sort of livestock protector that would guard the goats but also sound an alarm if anything goes after the birds as well. I'm not sure what species to consider. Here are a few questions I have:

My does are really scared of dogs. They tried to butt and stomp my little terrier when he got inside the fence to fetch a ball. I think they would do the same to a pup and be scared to death of an adult LGD. Is there any way around this.

What about donkeys or miniature donkeys? Can they put up a fight against a coyote or more than one coyote? Are they usually gentle around goat kids?

I've heard Llamas are really good but I only have three tiny acres and I move the electric netting around the property so the goats can eat the brush. They wouldn't have much space. Would an alpaca be effective and also handle the smaller grazing area? Would they respect electric goat netting?

So many things to consider. :chin: My vet is a big fan of alpacas so she's suggesting I go that route.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

alpaca need protecting themselves they are not a good protector. 
The reason your goats are afraid of your dog is the dogs actions and presence around them. A properly trained LGD is calm and mellow and would not be a threat to the goats and they would know that. 
I love my LGD's and they keep away all predators day or night. 
I have heard lamma can be good or can be bad depend on the lamma. 
Good luck in your search. 
Oh and read lots on any type of protector before you commit and buy.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Llamas, alpacas, donkeys, and livestock guard dogs can all make good goat guardians, however...much research and "shopping" needs to be done to find the right animal. My last LGD didn't work out at all and became a nightmare to deal with. I have also heard several stories of dogs not working at all...so you do need to look around and take your time when you get one. Be well prepared and purchase from a breeder who raises them to guard...and has actual working parents. I have also heard where their LGD(s) are working wonderfully and they wouldn't be without them. It really just depends on the dog, in my opinion and how well it's trained and raised. 

Llamas I actually really like. I have an intact male and female and they usually have a cria once a year. Once I sold the dog, I looked around and found these two llamas which were already guarding animals, used in 4H, and just really nice to handle all around. If they see something out of place they'll go investigate...they are very curious to new things and a good guard llama will chase and stomp a threat to the herd...especially a female llama with cria...they'll do what they can to protect their baby. They are gentle with the babies..sometimes will nuzzle them and walk away. They don't bother the goats at all. I've seen a dog out in the field next to their pen and they had their ears forward and just paced up and down the fence...so they're very alert animals. One downside to llamas is they do need to be sheared about once a year, need their hooves trimmed a couple times a year, and will need their teeth maintained as needed. Something nice about them is they eat what the goats eat and I don't have to worry about much extra care. I've noticed, they seem to be pretty easy keepers and don't eat all that much.

Alpacas...I have no experience with them and haven't really heard anything about them guarding.

Donkeys I think can make great guards, but you do need to find the right donkey for the job. Just like dogs and llamas, not every donkey is going to guard or be good for the job. I've heard good and bad about using them...so again...it really just depends on the donkey. They also are going to need regular hoof trimmings, grooming, and teeth maintenance now and then.

Whatever LG you choose...just do lots of research and take your time looking for that right fit. I don't think any of the above guards are going to be better than the other...it really just depends on the individual animal and what kind of guarding you need done. A prey animal is only going to be able to fight off so much, same as a dog, but a dog is designed for a much better defense so take into consideration what the guard animal will need to fight or scare off. Finding one that is already trained and a natural guardian would be your best bet...but they are hard to find. Good luck with your search!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Yes as Kylee points out not all LGD's are good guards or good dogs for that matter. Raising a LGD pup takes A LOT of time. It is a HUGE commitment.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

My only experience has been with Anatolians. Some of the does were afraid of him & one put him in his place.
What we did was put him in a pen next to the goats for a few months until they were used to his presence.
After that only supervised. This took quite a few months. It was not a piece of cake & dog had to be corrected many times.
Suddenly at 9 mos he was an angel.
While this pup was born on a dairy goat farm he wasnt trained by his peers.
Make sure whatever you get has been trained by parents. And I dont mean obedience either; all we taught ours was to sit & not poop in the goat lounging area. The rest comes naturally.
LGD #2 was also born with goats. By now we knew better at what to expect.
This dog never jumped on us, never harassed goats like the first one.
When dog #1 was still in pen next to goats as a young un one morning I found him in with goats. Found out a few days later a cougar had been spotted down the road.
Altho he couldnt have taken one on himself his presence was a deterrant.
As others have said, do your research, ask lots of questions. Not all breeds are suitable for everyone.


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

Thanks for your thoughtful replies! I spent hours reading threads on the subject last night. I'm definitely not going to rush this. I'm already steering away from the dog idea just because I really don't have the time to deal with the training and all those issues right now. I already have one problem dog on my hands (she kills ducks) and that's one too many, We don't have bears or cougars in my area just coyotes and the rare bobcat. I'm going to keep researching for a good long while.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:thumb: Best of luck in your searches.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

We got a pyrenees this year. I, like you, was very undecided on what type of LGD to get. I did want a Llama but hubby did not. We ended up finding an opportunity to get our pyrenees. She is 6 years old and has always worked as a single LGD (most pyreenes, from what I have heard preferr to work in pairs or there are issues). She is wonderful and I would never have gotten a puppy as I know nothing about how to raise an LGD. So the older dog was perfect for us-and she has even taught me a thing or two :thumb: 

If you were to consider an older pyrenees put an add on CL or go to a local pyrenees rescue-they will have "pet" quality pyrenees and they should also have some listed that are working dogs. 

Also--my goats are fearful-and have tried to "stomp" our little house dog. But they have NEVER minded Venus, our LGD. :shrug:


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## use2bwilson (Aug 4, 2011)

> The reason your goats are afraid of your dog is the dogs actions and presence around them. A properly trained LGD is calm and mellow and would not be a threat to the goats and they would know that.


I agree with Logan ... we have a LGD and our goats are fine with him ... however, I foster lots of rescue dogs and the goats like some better than others. It really depends on the dog's energy (and terrier's tend to be high energy so I'm not surprised if your goats don't like him/her). My guess is your goats would be fine with the mellow energy of an adult LGD.

One suggestion is to get a LGD through a rescue. That is how we got our dog. We knew that he was off of a huge ranch in Wyoming but ended up as a stray in a high-kill shelter. The akbash rescue pulled him out of the shelter and that's how we found him. Most rescues will allow you to "foster" a new dog on a temporary basis to see if he/she is a good fit for you. If the dog isn't a good fit, they will take it back. They will also evaluate each dog they get in and determine if it has livestock guarding potential. Many dogs they will not adopt out to a working home ... it depends on the dog.

Our akbash is GREAT!! He definitely knows his job and I am amazed at his ability to see the slightlest of movements out in the field behind us. Typically, he sees the coyotes before I do. When he sees something, he is "all business" and very focused. He really only barks on as as need basis (although that's a lot at night for us since we have so many coyotes!!). Since we do have nearby neighbors, we bring him in at night sometimes and lock up our goats. But I can't imagine life without him ... I would worry all the time without him. He gives me total peace of mind with our goats, chickens and cats (and other dogs too)!!


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

I have a mini donkey (Jasmine) who is (for the most part) very good at her job. We also have a coyote issue. She chases ANYTHING out of the pasture that doesn't belong (and she sometimes thinks my hubby doesn't belong!) She is very sweet, but if she takes a disliking to a particular goat for whatever reason, they can have issues. I blame my donkey on a miscarriage of one of my goats - they absolutely despise each other and I finally moved the doe into a different pasture after she miscarried. (None of the other goats like her, either - hence her name Grumpy.) Jazz loves the babies when they come, so I think for the most part the issue is when new goats are brought in, as was the case with the miscarriage. I have heard that jennies are better tempered than jacks. Is there a possibility if you consider going with a donkey to "try" the donkey out for a while under close supervision with an option of returning it if it doesn't work out? I have friends who always have donkeys to give away and I have that option should I consider another donkey. My hubby says no more donkeys (they do eat a LOT of hay and can cause waste of it if not managed well) and we would love to get a Great Pyr but don't have time to spend training, so we're in a quandry about what to get for our other pasture right now!


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## winky (Jun 19, 2011)

Thanks for all the info! I'm probably going to steer clear of dogs but IF I did decide to go that route it would be an experienced adult rescue dog. I really like donkeys and if I found one with all the right traits I would go that route. I'm home most of the time but not outside all day. I can just barely hear the geese from inside the house and only if there's no background noise in the house. I wonder if guinea fowl would be louder than the geese :shrug: .
If so, this might buy me some time while I do more research.


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