# snakes



## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

Hi there! I have a quarter acre goat pen that is just fenced in with 4" fencing. We seen huge increase in snake population in our neighborhood this spring. Mostly just Rat snakes but also some Cottonmouths. I have started to spray vinegar, cinnamon or clove oils around the outside of the pen but have no idea if that works, just google information. Any suggestions how to help deter a snake from entering the pen area? I have a dog who is free to roam so anything poisonous is out.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Snakes look for warmth. So they will be attracted to a body, dog or goat. There is a plant that deter snakes but that is not fool proof. To be honest it could be safe to add chicken mesh to the bottom rung of your arena. The holes are too small for the snakes to get through. We have puff adders here. My sheep normally kill them but I have lost two ewes to snake bites.
This has worked for me.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Snakes also love cover. Dead logs, leaf piles, thick underbrush, wood piles. Removing these will help. Something you might want to look into is getting guineas. They are known to kill snakes.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

MellonFriend said:


> Snakes also love cover. Dead logs, leaf piles, thick underbrush, wood piles. Removing these will help. Something you might want to look into is getting guineas. They are known to kill snakes.


This is what worries me because I have a pile of hay they love to lay on and also a bed of hay a foot thick in their little barn for them to sleep on. If I remove this, they will have nothing and also when they are in there for long periods due to rain, I will have nothing to absorb the urine.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

There are a lot of other ways to provide bedding and absorb urine without providing snake habitat. Hay isn't that good at absorption anyhow. Let me try to grab a few links to recent threads on various bedding and barn floors.

What type of structure is it? A pole barn with gravel bottom or something with a framed wood floor? Other?


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

You can put out sulfur to stop snakes from travelling over it. I dont know if I would recommend it inside the goat pen. We have cats around, and free roaming chickens, they tend to destroy all non essential animal life.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have had two goats bit last season. Irene looked to be a dry bite thank God cause it was fanged. A buckling was not so lucky.. his neck swelled and even with vet intervenion he died. Our guinea population was down to 3.. this year we hatched some out in hopes they stay in the goat pen. But we did add geese..Edward and Eleanor along with chickens and ducks who all roam the goat pen. No snake bites on animals this season yet. My 14 year old son was bit on his foot a few nights ago. (Alway telling him not to go out bear footed..bet he listens now!) We have killed several rat snakes in our chicken nest already. Going to be a fun year.

Keep a snake bite kit on the ready. Draw up meds and put in zip lock baggie Marked **SNAKE BITE KIT**
_ Penicillin_ *Sub Q *for 5 days, draw up 5-6 cc (dose is 1 cc per 20# but keeping a large dose you can always give less of it if goat is smaller) You can always draw more up if the goat weighs more. 
_Dexamethasone_. *Give IM.* For 5 days decreasing dose amount each day. Again, draw a large dose, 5-6 cc. Dose is 1 cc per 20#, so can give less if goat is smaller) Give what you have pulled up then you can draw more up if the goat weighs more. 
_Benadryl_. Give large dose of 30-40 cc 2 times a day for 4 days. (if its a tiny goat adjust dose)
Plantain plant can help draw out toxins..chew some up and apply to the bite. 
Once the treatment has been given, it a good idea to ID if the bite is venomous or Non Venomous. If venomous call your vet and alert him.

Non Venomous will be a double horseshoe shape like my sons foot
Venomous will have two puncture spots with a line of small marks downward

Picture is my sons foot..non venomous bite.


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## Ashlynn (Oct 1, 2017)

I would put wire mesh at the bottom of fence to discourage snakes from going in the pens. If determined though they could climb of course. I would also get animals that kill snakes. Someone above suggested guineas, I’m sure there are more animals that could help too. Make sure that your dog wouldn’t mess with guineas or others in the snake patrol force. Maybe trying to control whatever the snakes eat may help too, like rats. Blessed to not have too many problems with venomous snakes in Florida. We mainly only encounter rat snakes and black racers with the occasional Pygmy rattle snakes, moccasins, and the classic game of is it a coral or king snake.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

happybleats said:


> I have had two goats bit last season. Irene looked to be a dry bite thank God cause it was fanged. A buckling was not so lucky.. his neck swelled and even with vet intervenion he died. Our guinea population was down to 3.. this year we hatched some out in hopes they stay in the goat pen. But we did add geese..Edward and Eleanor along with chickens and ducks who all roam the goat pen. No snake bites on animals this season yet. My 14 year old son was bit on his foot a few nights ago. (Alway telling him not to go out bear footed..bet he listens now!) We have killed several rat snakes in our chicken nest already. Going to be a fun year.
> 
> Keep a snake bite kit on the ready. Draw up meds and put in zip lock baggie Marked **SNAKE BITE KIT**
> _ Penicillin_ *Sub Q *for 5 days, draw up 5-6 cc (dose is 1 cc per 20# but keeping a large dose you can always give less of it if goat is smaller) You can always draw more up if the goat weighs more.
> ...


Great Advice! I've got to write this down somewhere.

Also want to add that evidence has shown that large doses of vitamin c can be helpful when fighting off a venomous snake bite.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

happybleats said:


> _Benadryl_. Give large dose of 30-40 cc 2 times a day for 4 days. (if its a tiny goat adjust dose)


My medically inclined sister is wondering if you know what the dosage in pill form Benadryl is? That's what we tend to have on hand.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

MellonFriend said:


> My medically inclined sister is wondering if you know what the dosage in pill form Benadryl is? That's what we tend to have on hand.


Liquid is 12.5 mg per dose
Chewable is 12.5 mg
Capsule and pill are 25 mg per dose.

So basically capsule and pills would be half the amount since they are twice as strong.i wouldn't fret too much about giving a bit too much, may make them.sleepy but will be fine.
I think liquid is easier to give and maybe faster to work.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> There are a lot of other ways to provide bedding and absorb urine without providing snake habitat. Hay isn't that good at absorption anyhow. Let me try to grab a few links to recent threads on various bedding and barn floors.
> 
> What type of structure is it? A pole barn with gravel bottom or something with a framed wood floor? Other?


Hi! Its just a 4 x8 shed I made out of old privacy fence and plywood. I stupidly put a piece of plywood on the bottom 4' section where they sleep so they would be off the ground in the winter. Then I cover the whole 4 x 8 with hay. I also have a large area of hay outside that they love to lay on. Never had a problem in the year I've had them but this year is out of control with snakes.....and that darn Armadillo is back!!!


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> There are a lot of other ways to provide bedding and absorb urine without providing snake habitat. Hay isn't that good at absorption anyhow. Let me try to grab a few links to recent threads on various bedding and barn floors.
> 
> What type of structure is it? A pole barn with gravel bottom or something with a framed wood floor? Other?


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

MadCatX said:


> You can put out sulfur to stop snakes from travelling over it. I dont know if I would recommend it inside the goat pen. We have cats around, and free roaming chickens, they tend to destroy all non essential animal life.


Is sulfur ok if my dog should get into it? I could put it just outside the fencing.....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Noreen said:


> piece of plywood on the bottom 4' section where they sleep so they would be off the ground


Might raise that up a few feet to make it less inviting to snakes. Goats love to jump high any way.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Noreen said:


> Is sulfur ok if my dog should get into it? I could put it just outside the fencing.....


That I am not super sure of. I will try and google it real quick. My AC unit went out prior to me having outside animals, when they went under, they found a bed of copper heads, and on very agitated cottonmouth. So they shot those and spread sulfur around.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Eh, not sure Id put it out with dogs nearby. Im seeing mixed things online so may not want to go that route.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Cottonmouth scare me more than copper head. They are more aggressive


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All have really good advice.


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## Stefano (May 8, 2020)

Growing up in cottonmouth and copperhead country we always believed black snakes(aka black rat snakes)helped keep Poisen snakes away and welcomed them. Also snakes like taller grass so possibly,keeping a short strip around pasture could help


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

We only have the common garter snakes and black snakes. Some idiot tried to reintroduce massaga rattlesnakes a few years back. Most of those got shot by farmers. They were wiped out 150 years ago, someone in Cleveland thought the country needed more snakes! 
Ok, so my question, does gravel deter snakes? As in, sharp stones acting as a barrier?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Stefano said:


> Growing up in cottonmouth and copperhead country we always believed black snakes(aka black rat snakes)helped keep Poisen snakes away and welcomed them.


Yes rat snakes do help control venomous snakes. We leave them.be as long as they are not in our chicken house area or where they themselves could be a problem


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Im not sure about rocks but I seem to remember something about rocks or shell rock them not liking. Im in the deep south, if its venomous it lives here.


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> There are a lot of other ways to provide bedding and absorb urine without providing snake habitat. Hay isn't that good at absorption anyhow. Let me try to grab a few links to recent threads on various bedding and barn floors.
> 
> What type of structure is it? A pole barn with gravel bottom or something with a framed wood floor? Other?





SalteyLove said:


> There are a lot of other ways to provide bedding and absorb urine without providing snake habitat. Hay isn't that good at absorption anyhow. Let me try to grab a few links to recent threads on various bedding and barn floors.
> 
> What type of structure is it? A pole barn with gravel bottom or something with a framed wood floor? Other?


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## Noreen (Jun 20, 2019)

So what are good bedding options for a dirt floor? I can remove the wood section next time I clean it out. I see pine shavings a lot but that would attract snakes just like the straw pile I would think....


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Noreen said:


> So what are good bedding options for a dirt floor? I can remove the wood section next time I clean it out. I see pine shavings a lot but that would attract snakes just like the straw pile I would think....


A lot of folks are skipping bedding on their gravel/dirt floors all together and just raking with a leaf rake to move the poop out. Other folks are only providing pine shavings in one corner and many goats will accomodate by peeing in certain locations. In addition, putting sleeping platforms inside or outside the shelter will give the goats a great place to lay and you can get rid of the waste hay outside. Make the sleeping platform at least 12" up so it's not a good snake hideout.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

I agree with SaltLove

I hate snakes I almost got bitten by one a few weeks ago. Poisonous snakes are rare in our area but they are still snakes.

You can avoid them by decluttering your environment. Piles of woods, cool, shaded area are their prime locations. Also show your presence. I am not sure it might work but if you make your environment not conducive by not having hiding spots and you moving about they might be discouraged to enter the into the premises.
We left our dog outside to sniff, find them out and maybe scare them off.

You might also plant plants that repels snakes such as lemongrass which repels snakes and also is safe for goats to eat but you might want to protect as it is no use to you munched down.

Whatever the plant you might use to repel the snakes you have to research if the plant if not toxic to goat in case they nibble a leaf here or there.

Hope this helps.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

If your goats are on pasture I don't have any advice for that. Sorry


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

i feel like the best bet would be clearing out debris and stuff from the pen/barn area (pieces of tin, brush piles, ect.) then remove the sources of prey. making an area inhospitable for rats and toads will /help/ keep snakes away since there is no prey to hunt. also would LOVE to find some king snakes for the property.

two years ago i had a 6 month old buck get tagged on the nose by a copperhead. he was lucky in a sense for him to have been bitten where it was more skull and less soft tissue/blood vessels. his face swelled up something terrible and he was in real pain, but i treated him with penicillin and aspirin and he recovered without any nerve or tissue damage. it's really a roll of the dice with snakes. so hard to keep them away.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I had 8 bales of straw on a pallet covered with a tarp. I guess it's been there 2-3 weeks. I unwrapped it last eve as I had just cleaned out two of the 4 pens in my barn. 

A snake family was inbetween the bales. 20+ pencil sized, some larger and a really big one (that was not happy). Startled is the understatement on my part! Since I had gloves on, I put all but the big one off in the brush. (I live in the woods). I called them garter snakes, they were striped. I'm not a snake fan, but I know they do good. 

I guess, don't have piles of stuff around the barn where they can hide!


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