# ADGA membership or no?



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

right now I have AGS registered Nigerian Dwarf goats. I have 8 of them - 6 does and 2 bucks.

I have kept my herd AGS only for one particular reason. But I dont want to cloud your suggestions to me with it.

Can you give me the pros and cons for applying for membership to ADGA for my nigerians only herd? Thanks


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i haven't done it either stacey.. mainly because of funds and you have to send pedigrees..


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

I only have NDGA and AGS....its too much for 3 registries


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

It might widen your prospective buyers having your herd double registered. I have an AGS and ADGA membership, but have yet to double register every single goat, although the majority are double registered. I personally like AGS better, but there are a lot more ADGA breeders in my area so I just figured I'd go with both. Also, if either shows pop up that you want to go to, you'll have both papers ready to go.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

ive shown tons of ADGA shows with AGS papers


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

REALLY???? you can do that??
THATS AWESOME


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Really? I didn't even realize that.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

its different in different areas..


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes I have an AGS leg on Jitterbug from an ADGA show 

the thing is that the judge can refuse to sign the special papers you bring with you from AGS so that the win can be transfered. Its stupid and basically childish but they do sometimes refuse to sign them so that you paid all that money and effort and then no win is recorded. 

You pay 10.00 per win for the transfer plus the 1.00 for the papers for the show.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I prefer ADGA but like to support AGS as well - just decided to keep my membership current for both registries because I need to transfer Lilly and Magnolia's AGS papers. 

Let's see - ADGA has Linear Appraisal and for me, they have a lot faster service. A lot of people in our area only recognize or want ADGA registered animals. I had two ladies almost turn my goats down because they thought they were not ADGA registered/registerable. That's all I can think of now. . . I kind of like that their milk requirements are higher for earning stars. Makes for further improvement in the breed as a dairy animal. (think I have that right?)


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

very few ADGA shows in my area and all ND are AGS registered here so we all do AGS shows. 

So it isnt like I am lacking in that area or hurting because they arent ADGA registered as of right now. 

Good info keep it coming


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

the ADGA thing is catching on down here. but quite frankly i cannot afford to ship off all the papers to get it done for 3 registries.. they can be registered with ADGA, and i have apps, but i myself will not do it


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

can I get an ADGA membership and then send the kids with ADGA applications without transferring their parents over to ADGA? 

with 6 does and 2 bucks I am not so sure I want to be going through the effort of transferring all that this year for sure. But if it I can get is so the kids can be registered ADGA might be a selling point for some people :shrug:

Still have my nagging issue I havent brought up so I am not convinced yet


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## pennylullabelle (Nov 22, 2009)

I decided the become an ADGA member because I really enjoy the "type" that has developed since the ADGA inception. The goats are not longer, more elongated, with more depth of body and better mammory systems. The "old style" goats developed by breeders who followed NDGA and AGS are nice animals, but there is an evolution of style that I am quite impressed with...

This general dairy/swiss character is encouraged with higher milk requirements and programs like LA. Of course, AGS supports dairy character and excellent mammary systems, but I feel it has increased since ADGA accepted NDs.

oh...and I know NDs are African, not Swiss! lol 

However, I maintain all 3 registries. It's not much work. Fill out a paper, copy a pedigree, send in the fee. For me this is an added benefit when I am buying a goat as well. I know I can always apply, but sure don't mind skipping the additional step. The bulk of the shows I am interested in attending are ADGA. The majority of breeders I admire on the West coast are ADGA members and participate in the shows around here. 

So, I guess it depends on your goals for your herd. If you want to incorporate new lines and appeal to ADGA members I would say go for it. But you can also present to potential buyers how easy it is for them to submit ADGA registration with AGS paperwork...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

StaceyRoop said:


> can I get an ADGA membership and then send the kids with ADGA applications without transferring their parents over to ADGA? quote]
> 
> Yes you can. You need a copy of the parents AGS papers to send in with the kids applications to register them ADGA.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats good to know -- and simple enough to accomplish 

thanks thats a Check in the ADGA pro column


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

Where I'm at everything is ADGA, so theres really no reason for me to do anything but that. I think ADGA is a wonderful association that is easy to follow and they update regular. The judges and people involved are great people too!!

http://nutmegfarm.webs.com/


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I don't know much about each registry, but personally, I'd probably just register them to whatever registry shows more in your area. If you can show AGS registered goats in ADGA shows, I don't think I'd double register them... Just me though. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes but for selling kids its an added benefit to prospective buyers


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I suppose. I'm sure because they are purebred they'd be registerable. Maybe you could advertise like that?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ADGA and AGS are totally different registries. People want to know that they will be getting an ADGA registerable kid. Its more difficult for them to get the goat registered with ADGA if I am not a member of ADGA as the breeder.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

I know they're different registries, I just thought I'd read that you can transfer paperwork directly over from one registry to the other without much difficulty. Figured if you gave new buyers the paperwork, they could just submit it themselves without you having to give yourself the headache? Know what I mean?

I dunno. :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yah but it messes with the name of the goats. So like all my girls their registered names would have a prefix to them in ADGA instead of just their normal name. 

I dont know what that prefix is - I was told but I forget.

So its easier if I am a member -- I dont have to do the registering of the kids but the option is there if they want to. I would jsut send the applications with the kids. I dont register them with AGS anyway the buyers get the applications. THis way they can pick the name too

I need some advise on those who have been in this situation on how they did it and the process involved. I can contact ADGA but I figured I would ask the pros and cons of ADGA.


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

That makes sense. Like I said, I don't know the registries. lol


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

and im still learning so we can learn together :thumb:


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Deal.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

The prefix added on to the goats name is AGS.

Like my AGS registered goat is name Phoenix Rising Farm Sensation with the AGS. 

When I registered her with the ADGA I sent in her AGS papers and her name with the ADGA is AGS Phoenix Rising Farm Sensation.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thanks -- I knew you had told me but hey I forget these things :doh:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I am a member of the AGS, ADGA and NDGA. There are no NDGA shows around here so I only have a few NDGA registered goats. 

All of my goats are AGS registered and all but about 3 are ADGA registered as well. 
Since I want to go on milk test with the ADGA it was important to get them ADGA registered. I'm not doing milk test with the AGS because owner sampler doesn't offer as many benefits as the ADGA. 

Really the only downside the the ADGA is they can be wicked rude on the phone But paperwork always comes on time, you get an email when the paperwork is finished so you know to look for things in the mail, you can look up goats online. The ADGA really just gives you so much more information at your finger tips. I really love the online feature where you can look up goats and see if they ever got their milk stars or were appraised.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats only if they were ADGA registered though -- so like if my goats were to get their milking stars you wouldnt be able to see that in the ADGA datebase because my goats are AGS only registered.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yes, but you can't really see if they got a AGS star anyways unless you call the ags.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well thats a given but just saying they have to be ADGA registered to find out all that information.

Not saying its bad 

Ok so for MY real reason for not doing ADGA to date:

I know that ADGA has no stance against NAIS and will actually give your information out to the NAIS from what I hear. This scares me and I rather not have to deal with this at all. AGS has made a statement against NAIS so I know my information in their hands is secure.

I feel like my identity is out there if I become a member of ADGA and beings that my home is not my own - parents - I dont think it fair to put them in that position.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

They are actually pro NAIS which really bums me out.


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

The only shows in the Northwest are all ADGA so we have gone to only registering with ADGA. Cannot justify the cost of registering in a registry with no shows available. 
We used to enjoy the AGS shows in CA.... didn't have to wait around all day waiting for your breed to show like with the ADGA shows.
The first year Nigerians went into ADGA we showed at the ADGA shows with the AGS papers. Our one doe Shining Sand is an AGS champion but all the shows were ADGA shows. The sad part is if you don't have your goat registered with ADGA at the time of the wins they only count for AGS so Sandy had to start all over again once she was ADGA registered to earn her ADGA legs even though she won 3 legs at ADGA shows before.
Any goat who has parents who are not ADGA registered has to have AGS put in front of their name for that first ADGA registered generation.
Always fun when you purchase a goat registered only in AGS from a AGS only breeder who has a tattoo sequence already used in ADGA then have to work the registration over to ADGA. With registering Olive it took about 4 times of sending paperwork back and forth before ADGA got it right with the breeder info and the tattoo then somehow they put her color down as white... and she is not white so we had to send the papers back AGAIN.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok so you are saying that even if I am an ADGA member if i dont transfer my doe's and buck's paperwork into ADGA the kids will still have AGS End of the Line XXXXXX ??

but it will make it easier with the Tattoo


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

They put AGS in front of the name of any goat who has parents who are only AGS registered. It is not a real big deal. They also write the AGS registration numbers of the parents on the ADGA papers.

If you have to change the tattoo for ADGA because the tattoo sequence is already used and you don't want your AGS papers to have to change you can go to the tail web to add a new right tattoo. A few of our first ADGA registered goats have a ADGA tattoo in the right tail web because the breeder's AGS tattoo sequence was already used in ADGA. Then they write both ear tattoos on the ADGA papers as well as the right tail tattoo. When the judge reads them they have to read both ears and the tail.


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## Idahodreamer (Sep 19, 2009)

oh wow, i didn't know they supported NAIS!!! 
Since all of our shows here are ADGA, I was going to register with them.
Does it make a difference if the show is ADGA/AGS while showing? 
I might switch over to AGS.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

You know I had heard about ADGA being for NAIS, but I didn't know if it was true or if they were actually pro, and I haven't tried to research it at all, but that really is frustrating to hear. It boggles my mind why some people are for it who own and show animals??


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Here is the ADGA's pro NAIS statement: http://adga.org/NAIS_Statement.html


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the other link thats inside the one provided by Ashley is even more informative. http://adga.org/faq-nais.html


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks for the links guys!


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## Anna (Oct 17, 2007)

You know, I've heard the that the ADGA is pro-NAIS too, but after reading the links posted, I see that they are NOT pro-NAIS and they clearly state that and the fact they do not intend to release member information to the program. I think basically at this point in time, the ADGA hasn't addressed much of the NAIS issue and have only implemented ways of going around it keeping the peace. 


As to pro's about registering with the ADGA I agree with a previous poster, I feel like the ADGA holds the ND breed(and most others) to higher standards. I think NATIONALLY it's the more recognized association and therefore would promote the herd better. Just gives more leverage all the way around.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Anna said:


> I think basically at this point in time, the ADGA hasn't addressed much of the NAIS issue and have only implemented ways of going around it keeping the peace.


you are correct Anna - and its this indecision and fancy speech that leaves people to wonder where they will end up on this issue.

At least with AGS we know they have a stance AGAINST NAIS with ADGA they are for this part but against this ..... stop being wishy washy and make up your minds!


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## Anna (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree, Stacey, it should be addressed (should have been already)!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Also my other reason for registering my goats with the ADGA is the ADGA nationals are going to be 30 minutes away from me in 2011!!!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I emailed ADGA and their response is in blue

Ok I have been trying to do my research so I wouldn't have to be asking to many questions but its still unclear in some areas. So I will give you the lowdown in hopes you can clear things up for me 

First off I am a member of AGS with a small herd of AGS only registered Nigerian Dwarf dairy goats.

My herd name with AGS is End of the Line and my tattoo is EOTL - is this herd name and Tattoo available with ADGA? herd name is available at this time, tattoo is available at this time

None of my does or bucks are ADGA registered but if I become an ADGA member what is the process for registering kids as ADGA? if the kids are registered with AGS you can submit the AGS certificate, AGS transfer records, a completed ADGA application and the re-registration fees. OR you can submit a copy of the kids parents AGS certificates with a completed ADGA application and the registration fees.

I hear that to transfer over AGS papers I need to send the original AGS papers to ADGA. Is this true and how concerned should I be about my original AGS papers being lost or damaged? What is the turn around time frame? Yes ADGA will need the original AGS certificate, which are returned to you by regular 1st class mail through the post office. Once the work is in the ADGA office the turn around time is just about 2-3 days

I have heard that AGS only goats will have AGS in front of their herd name when transfered over into ADGA - is this correct? yes

I have also heard that if my does are not transfered over to ADGA and I have a membership with ADGA the kids will still have AGS in front of the herd name. This sounds confusing and I would like clarification on it. All AGS re-registration animals will have AGS in front of the herd name (still didnt answer my question full but I guess I will figure it out if I do end up going with ADGA

What is ADGA's stance on the NAIS issue? Please see at http://adga.org/NAIS_Statement.html.


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## crow (Sep 6, 2009)

We are AGS and NDGA, Im not real clear on all the ups and downs with the ADGA. but aint they the ones that are all hand in hand with the gov. on this chip thing? call me paranoid, but as for me. I aint having no part in their micro chip tec. that same tec. will some day play a great roll in your daily activities. (yea, Im one of them folks,) but it just fits the desciption of a tec. that will some day be used on human. some might say that Crow's been in them woods to long.LOL. for what they stand for and the cost, we boycot them. Im sure there are good points, but I aint ever gonna have no part in that tec. Crow.


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

I know that there are those who do not support NAIS, which is fine, but I do support the Scrapie Volunteer program. I am on this program, there are no changes for paperwork, no costs, and I do understand why people would like to learn more about scrapie. I know that Ohio {my state} has actually had a huge number of cases. I recently went to a clinic about scrapie, trying to understand more, and cases are going down due to the involvement and herds with active scrapie are becoming less numerous. I support ADGA because it is a great organization, and I support the volunteer scrapie program, because it is seeing results. I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating some facts.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

scrapies is fine -- NAIS is an infringement on my rights as an American. 

it will run small farmers and pet owners out of business


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

Are you from an area where there is mostly AGS, or is there ADGA around you also? It is a good kid-seller to have dual registries!! :leap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

there are both -- but most nigerian breeders tend to boycott the ADGA shows due to the nasty people who run them.


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

Well I'm not familiar with your area personally, but I am a member of clubs that put on ADGA shows and were a pretty nice crowd {unless you beat us lol}...maybe you need to join the ohio crowd!! haha. :stars:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

they are nasty to the nigerian dwarf breeders - is complicated


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Well I wouldn't say all ADGA people are terrible to Nigi breeders. A lot of them just don't really know us. A few fairly Bad eggs have really ruined their reputation towards AGS nigi breeders.


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

You can get a sour taste in your mouth from different people, Its happened to me. I was showing a black oberhasli once and had a judge say to my face "I am prejudice against black does and she won't place any higher". {actually happened!} Everyone has their ups and downs, but I do know ADGA judges that raise nigerians and have done well with them without conflict.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

not saying ADGA people are mean or nasty or that they are all ND haters - you asked a question I gave info about my situation. 

Lets not discuss the attitudes of breeders


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

I didn't mean attitude wise, I mean those little buggers win everything!! Haha, they deserve it, they're just adorable


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Dec 14, 2009)

From what I have read, the ADGA does not support the NAIS in its current form but they do recognize the need for a way to quickly reach breeder should there be an outbreak of disease. They also recognize that eventually the government will probably pass something like it whether we like it or not and in light of that, they are working to make sure that if something does pass, goat people have a voice in it so that we don't end up with everything geared towards needs of people with horses,cows, and sheep.


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

Do not like NAIS.  I wish that politicians actually cared what what the little people think.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Oat Bucket Farm said:


> From what I have read, the ADGA does not support the NAIS in its current form but they do recognize the need for a way to quickly reach breeder should there be an outbreak of disease. They also recognize that eventually the government will probably pass something like it whether we like it or not and in light of that, they are working to make sure that if something does pass, goat people have a voice in it so that we don't end up with everything geared towards needs of people with horses,cows, and sheep.


it would be nice if they said it like instead of their backhanded walk around the issue way.


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