# Selenium/E gel, safe?



## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

I have read that there is a very thin margin of safety with selenium. Is that true? I have the selenium/vitamin E gel that I am thinking of giving to one of my does. She is due in three weeks. Is it safe to give preventatively? How much should I give? I do not have the injectable BOSE, just the gel. Also, I have been giving this doe red cell for a few days (tonight is the last night of that) and plan on giving her a copper bolus soon. Will any of these mess up the effects of the selenium? Thanks!


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

In most parts of the country selenium is pretty safe. The oral method is a lot safer than the injection because even if overdosed a lot gets degraded in the stomach. Injection can cause overdose because it doesn't get degraded by the stomach but its a lot faster if the animal is severely deficient. I think you could safely give your doe a dose of the gel if you thinks she needs it but I don't think much of it will get to the baby. I personally would give it to the baby after its born. Just a pea sized blob is all it needs.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We have used the selenium e gel for the last 2 years and it's really good stuff. 
Are you in a selenium deficient area? Sorry I can't remember which states are good/bad on selenium lol
I'm in KY, and it's very deficient here. We'd give our does a full recommended dose of seleneium gel 3-4 weeks before their due date <I think it's 2ml for babies, and 5ml for adults?>.
Then when the babies are born, we'd give them some on our finger and put it in the back of their mouth ---> we also give the mama's a full dose at this time as well.
For the babies we typically don't give them the full dosage, probably half or a little more than half especially if they seem weak on the hind legs.
It's usually once a month after that. I love the gel especially for certain does because I'll just put it on my finger and they will lick it off. And for the babies that means an injection I don't have to give. I've never had to inject a newborn, and don't want to unless it's an emergency, that's just me feeling guilty lol

We just started using Bo-Se in Dec - gave it to our does 4 weeks before they were due. And just dosed 2 of our yearling does last weekend. So far so good. But for the babies I plan to always keep selenium e gel and use that on them at birth, then once a month and when they are about 6mo old I'll give them a shot of Bo-Se. 
With Bo-Se if I am told 40lbs. per cc, then I dose it at 50lbs. per cc to be safe.
We have a doe due at the end of April, she gets the gel monthly, and once she kids she'll get started on Bo-Se.

Did you order your tube from Jeffers? That's where we got ours.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I've used the gel for a couple of years with no issues. I do live in a deficient area, however. I give a dose as instructed on the label six weeks before kidding, and three weeks before kidding and then give a pea sized dab to newborns and again at a week old. I've never had an issue. I usually give everyone else a dose every couple of months and I've never had overdose problems, and I feed goat specific grain and minerals that have selenium as well.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies! I would just like to use it for the doe, I haven't had issues with the kids before.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok, I just looked at the Selenium by county map, and it looks like I am in the .12 - .14 range. Is that deficient? Should I be supplementing? Will it hurt them to supplement? Thanks!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Less than 0.5mg is deficient. I don't know that I'd supplement in a non-deficient area as long as the goats had pasture or the hay you feed them is grown locally. If you have a goat mineral down it usually has some selenium in it, as does goat specific grain, so thats likely all the supplementation they need. Because its oral it isn't as risky as injecting BoSe and you'd likely be OK with giving it to does near kidding time and to newborns.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Well if deficient is below .5 and I am at .12-.14, isn't my area deficient? I am not sure what area the hay I feed comes from, honestly. Lol The reason I would like to give the supplement is that I have one doe who has been "off" for months and I think it is some type of mineral deficiency. Hair that is coarse, she is slow moving, and just generally "off". I have tried supplementing her with Red Cell and she will look better for a few days, then she will go back to how she was. She is still eating and drinking and on occasion bashing her friends around.  Do any of those ^ symptoms sound like a deficiency to you guys? If so, suggestions on what kind? I've pretty much narrowed it down to either copper or selenium deficiency. So you say the oral stuff will be safe to give her preventatively? Thanks!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Um...no. I'm pretty sure .5 is less than .12 .... Are you thinking of .05? Because that would be less. I'm retarded with math, so I could be completely looking at it wrong when it comes to decimals. Unless you're saying its negative .14 but I don't think you can measure selenium into the negatives? I doubt it would hurt her to give her the gel. I had a doe I gave the gel to every couple of weeks for six months when I first got her because I was sure she was deficient. I would definitely try a copper bolus though, its amazing how some goats will look like a whole different animal a month after a bolus.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I'm in a very deficient area, and my hay is local. I have a good loose mineral but I also give the sel/vit e paste.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

.5 is equal to .50 or 50%, so it would be much more than .12 or 12%. .05 would be 5% and much less than .12. 

I'll definitely re copper bolus her, and will see about the selenium gel as well.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Aha. See, told you I'm math retarded. So then yeah, you'd be deficient.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks! I'll see about giving her the gel, and hope for the best!! Thanks for all the help!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Again I really do like the gel, see if she'll eat it off your finger, if not you'll have to put it in the back of her mouth. Our adult does will eat it, but they are treat hounds too, and seem to like the taste of it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im math retarded too lol... and Hubby and I cant agree if 0.11 +/- 0,02ppm is low or high. ....


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

If under .50 is low, then .11 would be deficient... I think the +/- means it varies within .02 degrees, but that would still be way under .50


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thank you!!!


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok, so turns out I have Vit. B gel, and not Vit. E/Selenium. So I am putting in an order for it and will let you know how it goes as soon as it comes in!  

On a side note, I gave her a copper bolus this morning. I put the bolus inside a piece of marshmallow. I heard a lot of chewing sound, but not a single rod came out of her mouth or was on her tongue. So I'm guessing she was chewing on the hard capsule part, but didn't break it. Will it still work alright? Thanks!  (Incidentally, now my goat loves marshmallows. :shocked: )


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I've used marshmallows. I've heard they aren't supposed to crunch the rods, but I heard lots of crunching too and the copper bolus seemed to be effective...their coats were nicer and any red tinge disappeared.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok great! Thanks! How soon should I see a change in her?


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Update!!!  Got in my Selenium gel this afternoon, and dosed her this evening. I gave her 4 ml which is what the tube specified for adults. How soon should I see a change?


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Can I still put out my loose mineral even after dosing her with the gel? And should I dose the other goats too? Thanks!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know about how soon you'll see change, sorry. We always leave loose mineral out for our goats, and if they havent' had any in a while we always give them some.

Did your doe like it? We have does that will eat it right off our finger, no fuss. If your not careful they'll try to eat your finger too lol


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Just to be on the safe side, I just stuck the nozzle in her mouth and did it that way. Right after I gave it to her she told me she liked it, but then a second later she was shaking her head and saying, "bleh". LOL I guess it has a nasty aftertaste.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

My doe who eats anything was chasing me for it though, and I hadn't even given her any. LOL


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Frosty1 said:


> My doe who eats anything was chasing me for it though, and I hadn't even given her any. LOL


LOL That's how our herd queen is, she loves that stuff. She's a treat hound though, she'll pretty much try anything! Super easy to give copper to as well. I just make a few small peanut butter balls with copper inside, roll them in cracker crumbs, and she downs them like they are nothing lol
Our other does would rather you wear it, than them eat it


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Your Selenium will help the copper to work faster. You should start seeing a change in about 4 to 6 weeks. 
Those maps also are good tools but, unless your goats are only eating off brush and deep rooted plants, they only tell part of the story. Our fields are over used, over fertilized, and worn out. The minerals left in them are few and the farmer has to add just enough to make the crop grow. Hay is almost always deficient in selenium and copper because they don't put that on the fields.


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## Lily's Mom (Jun 8, 2012)

I always give the copper and selenium together. helps with the absorption.


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