# How do I put Weight on my wether safely.



## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Help. Through a whole series of unfortunate circumstances, I found myself the owner of two VERY unhealthy baby goats (around a week old). Unfortunately, as I was scrambling to learn as much as I could about baby goats, we lost one of them. The other one, Bert, I managed to save by the grace of God and a lot of tears and hard work. Anyway, fast forward two years and Bert is now a full grown goat (and we got him a companion, Zoe), but has never been terribly healthy. This fall he caught pneumonia, has been treated and is on the mend, but he lost A LOT of weight. He LOVES his hay, and eats it like a trooper, but has 0 interest in his grain. As I have serious concern about Urinary Calci (he was neutered early in life) I haven't really pushed the grain (he quit eating it when he got sick, but has always just nibbled at it anyway...Zoe would eat hers and his both. So, my question is, what can I safely feed him that will help him put on weight without throwing his system off. I was reading about Calf Manna, which seems like it may be a solution, but was hoping this group could offer ideas. For context, I live in Wisconsin...winter is upon us...Bert wears a x-large dog jacket for added warmth, and they both stay in the unheated horse barn...I let them out for a while, while I do chores, but they usually just go climb in the hay and munch. Also, Bert has a decided limp on his front leg. The vet is convinced it is just arthritis...he gets goat asprin (sorry, can't remember what it is at the moment) every night. Thanks for any advice you can give.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

A few questions: 

What type of hay do they eat? (alfalfa, Timothy, bermuda, orchard grass, a mix?)

Has Bert been tested for CAE & Johnes Disease?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Hi and welcome to TGS!
Poor Bert, you’ve been through the ringer, but it’s great you’re here.
I’m sorry if this seems like a lot of questions but it will help us help you.
What hay and grain are you feeding?
Have you had him tested for CAE,and Johnies? (sp?)
What is his FAMACHA score (inner lower eye lid color) is it red, pink or white?
Has he been wormed lately? and with what, and what dose?
What’s his temp? (Taken rectally)
A picture from the side, front and back will help to.
Again welcome and I hope he feels better sooN.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Well, I am not sure I can answer all your questions. But I will try. Our hay is a mix of alfalfa, timothy, and something else (broam? orchard grass?)..it is a mix designed for horses. 
I am going to say no on the testing for CAE and Johnies (since I have no clue what either one is) His lower lids, according to the vet, looked fine/normal in color. I dewormed him with Ivermectin on Nov. 28th. His temp, when the vet was out two weeks ago was very slightly elevated, most likely from pneumonia. The grain I feed is Purina goat chow...but honestly, he may nibble a tiny bit, but not much at all...I give them each a cup a day, but Bert eats maybe a quarter of a cup and Zoe eats the rest (and she is FAT). Also, I believe he is a Toggenburg cross (she is a chubby Boer). When I go out later to clean I will get those pictures, but he is thin! I am trying to learn more about goats, but struggle to find reliable information, that is why I hope someone here can offer guidance.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Welcome to TGS. You will get allot of help here. Good luck with your boy.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Hi there! I think before we get into weight gain there are a few things to discuss.

Disease testing - CAE is caprine arthritis encephalitis. Goats do not just get arthritis at an average age, it is usually CAE. CAE is a contagious disease and he needs to be tested for it if you are concerned. Very surprised a vet would say it is arthritis without testing for it. You need to do this ASAP. Along with a test for Johnes, which is another disease, but it causes weight loss, diarrhea, and ultimately death. I am not trying to scare you, he does need to be tested though.

I never like hearing "according to the vet," so I think you should go ahead and check his eyelids yourself to get a current look.

I would get a fecal test run on him, very easy, send to www.meadowmistlabservice.com

Current rectal temp would be great, as well as a list of what he received for pneumonia treatment.

With a weakened goat I like to get garlic into them immediately. 2 cloves raw garlic daily.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Your hay mix sounds fine. Can you give him some afalfa pellets? They're good for him. 
Here's how to check FAMACHA, it's really important to do weekly.





To hard being a goat owner when it's unexpected but it's rewarding and fun. Thanks for responding and don't let it seem overwhelming, one step at a time. You'll get a lot of great advice here.

If you can check his temperature giving us the actual reading will be better than saying normal or not, because a lower temp can indicate rumen trouble as a higher temp can be infection. Normal for a goat is 101.5-103.5* so what's normal to us isn't normal to them.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

GoofyGoat said:


> Your hay mix sounds fine. Can you give him some afalfa pellets? They're good for him.


:waiting: I would first like to hear the OP's water source -

For example: well water, softened water, city water, spring water, rainwater, etc. Please describe the hardness level also. What is hard water? Hard water is more present in wells, but any source can be hard. You may notice white residue or deposits on dishes and sinks (this can indicate high calcium), a sulfur or "eggy" smell (indicates high sulfur), or orange staining on sinks and tubs (high iron).


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

We have well water...and yes it is very hard water (very tasty too). Our water has been tested within the last couple of years and tests at safe levels for everything.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice, also may want to get a fecal done for worms and cocci.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Accidental goat mom said:


> We have well water...and yes it is very hard water (very tasty too). Our water has been tested within the last couple of years and tests at safe levels for everything.


Okay! May not be a good idea to add extra alfalfa pellets then if he already has alfalfa mix hay. First we need to get to the root cause of the issue, then focus on weight gain.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Nigerian dwarf owner has a great chart on how water effects feeding and wethers. Maybe she'll post it. However, your boy is thin, to answer your original question you can give him some dyne To get some calories into him, or calf manna. @Moers kiko boars knows of a generic equivalent that's less pricey. I've forgotten the name but those can help.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/2020/08/18/diets-for-male-goats-how-to-prevent-urinary-calculi/

https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/202...ourishing-regimen-for-productive-weight-gain/


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Okay, yikes, you guys are scaring me. I will say have no real concerns for John's disease as he has no diarhea or any other symptoms. His eye score is fine...I will be conservative and say it is a 2. My boer goat is healthy and his eye color is the same as hers, both more to dark pink or red then a light pink. CAE could be a possibility...although IDK how he would have contracted it.

Let me clarify my original post, Bert, in ail ways seems happy and himself. He eats his hay, gets into everything, and generally is a naughty goat...he is just very thin. He did have pneumonia and is only just "done" with the treatment for it and has stopped coughing and showing symptoms. I apologize, I cannot get a temperature as he is having NONE of that...and no one else is home to contain him so I can get a temperature. I really have minimal concerns about there being anything behind his condition, although I will continue to look into things. I am working on getting a fecal sample to have it checked for parasites, but he isn't cooperating and after cleaning the barn and getting sweaty, waiting for a poop for an extended period of time was going to have to wait  as I was getting very cold. He did have an injury to his front leg when he was young...tried to jump a fence and crashed (he did not do well with any alone time, hence the reason we got Zoe)...so that may be the root of the pain in his front leg...which he seems to forget about when he is climbing on bales and dumping the wheelbarrow for me (because I enjoy reshoveling what I just cleaned from the horse stalls). 

I will look into all those other issues, but in the meantime, what can I give him now to safely build his calorie intake?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Your hay mixture sounds really phenomenal and I wouldn't add any grain or other calorie supplements to it. He will gain weight on alfalfa/timothy hay, it has plenty of protein for a wether who has very little caloric demands (no breeding, no growing, etc.) Unfortunately it just takes a lot more time for weight to go back on after an illness than the way it comes off. Sounds like your doe could benefit from being cut off the sweet feed anyhow. Loose minerals, fresh water, and as much of that hay as they can eat in a day. That's all!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I agree that he doesn’t NEED more feed but dark beer drenches a few times a week will add calories. I’m not sure how skinny he is, if he is really skinny use one of the recipes for putting weight on a male goat with hard water I left you a link to.

I think we need to look at the underlying causes which is why I want to make sure he is fecal tested, so you are on the right track and all you can do is wait for poop!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Can you post a pic of him?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

For extra calories, there is a calorie supplement at Tractor Supply called "Dyne". Its a sickly sweet thick liquid that is great to help put on weight. But do not give to cats. I give it if I notice some of my heavy milkers are getting thin. (you can only feed a milker so much). 

You might consider giving your boy a pneumonia vaccine after he is recovered all the way. It is usually sold for cows, but works great on certain pneumonia strains in goats. 

Welcome to The Goat Spot. There are many helpful, non judgemental folks here.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Ulcers from continuing aspirin use?

Beet pulp?

There's no reason to create more problems before they even happen.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

goathiker said:


> Wow you guys...
> 
> Ulcers from continuing aspirin use?
> 
> ...


Agreed. I don't think anyone here disagrees. Or at least, I will speak for myself, and say that the links I posted for balanced wether diets are beet pulp-based, and we are awaiting photos of the goat before deciding if this is necessary.

She said aspirin equivalent for goats, not aspirin, I am assuming meloxicam. Nonetheless, we recommended a CAE to test, and of course, getting the goat's off the meds is helpful, but not if he is in pain.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

If he were my goat, I would definitely run blood tests for CAE and Johnes. It's not too expensive, and you can either do the blood draws and send them off yourself, or have your vet do it. I just recently dealt with two goats that I bought testing positive for CAE. Sometimes the goat can be positive for many years without showing any symptoms. The most common form of transmission is when a kid drinks milk from a CAE positive doe. I don't know quite as much about Johnes disease, having never dealt with that, but it's my understanding that they can contract it at any time, and will often have it for several years before they begin showing symptoms.
A fecal will tell you if he has worm issues, as others have said. Often times, if a goat is sick or stressed, their immune system will get compromised, and worms will become an issue. The FAMACHA chart is a good starting point, but I have had worm issues where my goats' famacha scores were still in the acceptable range. The underlying issues of his weight problems could very easily be a combination of factors.
You can have your vet run a fecal test, but I actually prefer sending them off to Meadow Mist Labs. She is very cost-effective, and will give you a breakdown of the numbers of worm eggs that she sees in a sample. My vet did not do that for me.
Does he have any sort of swelling or heat in the leg that he's limping on? I will always check out the hooves if one of my goats starts limping. Oftentimes, I will find that they need a good hoof trim, or that there is something else going on in the hoof, which is causing them to be in pain. So if you can catch him and clean up his hooves , you may find an issue there which is causing a limp. Also, if he is favoring that leg, he may not be wearing down the hoof on that leg as evenly as he is wearing down his other hooves, which means you will have to trim it more frequently.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Sorry, I didn't get back here yesterday. I got a fecal in this morning, and the vet replied that he does have low to moderate load, so he will be dewormed (strongyles I believe is what he said) as soon as my husband gets home. His temp last night was around 102.x which is about a degree lower than when he had pneumonia. 
As for meds, yes he is getting Meloxicam. 
I am struggling with my pics, I will try to get them uploaded...but please don't judge, he looks awful. He looked okay coming into winter, but really dropped weight when he got sick. 
Having done more research on CAE, I am concerned. Does anyone know if the symptoms would be intermittent? It seems he gets gimpy when the weather gets cold. Again, since he had a known injury as a little one (nothing major, but was gimpy for a period of time then too). It is also always the same leg...right front...and CAE sounds like it causes lameness in different joints. 
He is active and his naughty Bert self, so that is a plus I guess. 
I did pick up calf manna, the Dyne I wasn't able to find in Manitowoc. Any recommendations on how much to give? The bag doesn't offer much direction. He weighs about 110/120lbs.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> If he were my goat, I would definitely run blood tests for CAE and Johnes. It's not too expensive, and you can either do the blood draws and send them off yourself, or have your vet do it. I just recently dealt with two goats that I bought testing positive for CAE. Sometimes the goat can be positive for many years without showing any symptoms. The most common form of transmission is when a kid drinks milk from a CAE positive doe. I don't know quite as much about Johnes disease, having never dealt with that, but it's my understanding that they can contract it at any time, and will often have it for several years before they begin showing symptoms.
> A fecal will tell you if he has worm issues, as others have said. Often times, if a goat is sick or stressed, their immune system will get compromised, and worms will become an issue. The FAMACHA chart is a good starting point, but I have had worm issues where my goats' famacha scores were still in the acceptable range. The underlying issues of his weight problems could very easily be a combination of factors.
> You can have your vet run a fecal test, but I actually prefer sending them off to Meadow Mist Labs. She is very cost-effective, and will give you a breakdown of the numbers of worm eggs that she sees in a sample. My vet did not do that for me.
> Does he have any sort of swelling or heat in the leg that he's limping on? I will always check out the hooves if one of my goats starts limping. Oftentimes, I will find that they need a good hoof trim, or that there is something else going on in the hoof, which is causing them to be in pain. So if you can catch him and clean up his hooves , you may find an issue there which is causing a limp. Also, if he is favoring that leg, he may not be wearing down the hoof on that leg as evenly as he is wearing down his other hooves, which means you will have to trim it more frequently.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)




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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

He really doesn’t look too bad to me, but then again, I can’t feel him.

What dewormers has he received in the past?


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

He has only been dewormed a couple times...a prescription dewormer when we first got him...I don't remember what it was, then fall 2019, and then he got ivermectin about a month ago (late November), when he first started to get sick. However, I under dosed him by quite a bit..probably why he has worms now, but not a lot...
The pics are not the greatest, I didn't want to take his blanket off because it was cold and windy, but he is really thin around his hips...not that he has ever been wide. Perhaps it is because Zoe looks likes like a hippopotamus that I constantly worry about Bert's weight


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Accidental goat mom said:


> He has only been dewormed a couple times...a prescription dewormer when we first got him...I don't remember what it was, then fall 2019, and then he got ivermectin about a month ago (late November), when he first started to get sick. However, I under dosed him by quite a bit..probably why he has worms now, but not a lot...
> The pics are not the greatest, I didn't want to take his blanket off because it was cold and windy, but he is really thin around his hips...not that he has ever been wide. Perhaps it is because Zoe looks likes like a hippopotamus that I constantly worry about Bert's weight


Ok, for him I would use cydectin oral sheep drench, since you underdosed ivermectin, you can't risk giving it again.

Or, since numbers are low, you could do my preference of a natural dewormer: https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/201...ive-natural-deworming-regimen-how-to-and-why/


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Here's dewormer dosages: https://www.vet.cornell.edu/animal-...yschap/modules-documents/dewormer-chart-goats

He doesn't look terrible, I've seen way worse.

Can you post a pic of him from behind?

This shows how to find his body condition score: http://www.luresext.edu/sites/default/files/BCS_factsheet.pdf


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> Sorry, I didn't get back here yesterday. I got a fecal in this morning, and the vet replied that he does have low to moderate load, so he will be dewormed (strongyles I believe is what he said) as soon as my husband gets home. His temp last night was around 102.x which is about a degree lower than when he had pneumonia.
> As for meds, yes he is getting Meloxicam.
> I am struggling with my pics, I will try to get them uploaded...but please don't judge, he looks awful. He looked okay coming into winter, but really dropped weight when he got sick.
> Having done more research on CAE, I am concerned. Does anyone know if the symptoms would be intermittent? It seems he gets gimpy when the weather gets cold. Again, since he had a known injury as a little one (nothing major, but was gimpy for a period of time then too). It is also always the same leg...right front...and CAE sounds like it causes lameness in different joints.
> ...


I'm so glad you're getting a handle on the worm issues! I'm sure that will help a lot. 
From my understanding of CAE (I did tons of research and talked to several people who've had experience with it) it can really affect every goat differently. Arthritis is definitely a symptom of CAE, but that doesn't automatically mean that every goat with a limp is going to be CAE positive, though. If it turns out that he does have it, there are many things you can do to make his life happier. It doesn't have to be a death sentence.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Also, if you do decide to go the natural dewormer route, I have had good experiences with Land of Havilah.
Christy from LOH was very helpful when one of my does had strongyles. We were able to get her cleared up with a combination of herbs she suggested. I still reach for those things whenever I notice any potential respiratory issues cropping up in my herd. If you tell her what worms showed up on the fecal, she can help tailor a regimen for Bert's needs.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Okay. Update. His foot today, on the side he was limping on, feels hot to the touch today. We trimmed him a bit, no sign of abscess or anything...is there a way to tell? He let us trim him without difficulty...he is still limping...any suggestions? Is there a way to tell if there is an abscess floating in there? Can a goat founder like a horse can? Help


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can always soak the foot with epsom salt.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yes, a goat can founder you might need an X-ray. As for the calf manna start with a half a cup in the morning for a couple days then Slowly work up to a cup. (Going on what my vet said) for a 100 lb goat. You don’t want to throw too much at him and upset his rumen. 
You can add turmeric to his feed to help with the inflammation in his foot. Did you get a good look between his toes? Sometimes you can have problems there. You might have to take hair trimmers to see it well.
How’s the hoof at his band (hoof/hairline) is it thick or flush?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

General health looks good. 
Goat badly needs selenium. He's posturing on the back as well as the front. 
If you shake his rear end does he loose his balance?
I would give bo.se and vit B. I would also start vit D daily.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

goathiker said:


> General health looks good.
> Goat badly needs selenium. He's posturing on the back as well as the front.
> If you shake his rear end does he loose his balance?
> I would give bo.se and vit B. I would also start vit D daily.


He does not get off balance...just annoyed. Curious as to what in his stance makes you think he is posturing (so I can see if he is that way regularly or if it was just the jacket). He may have been standing oddly because I had tried to pull his jacket over his horns and it was sort of bunched up in his front legs. Is there a way to tell if he is low on vitamins etc? He has a billy block and our hay is good hay...alfalfa grass mix, no rain, no dust, this years crop, etc...in the summer he gets pasture...we have lots of browse for him (and grass if he wants it). The vet is on her way out to take another peek at him. I will share what she has to say.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

GoofyGoat said:


> Yes, a goat can founder you might need an X-ray. As for the calf manna start with a half a cup in the morning for a couple days then Slowly work up to a cup. (Going on what my vet said) for a 100 lb goat. You don't want to throw too much at him and upset his rumen.
> You can add turmeric to his feed to help with the inflammation in his foot. Did you get a good look between his toes? Sometimes you can have problems there. You might have to take hair trimmers to see it well.
> How's the hoof at his band (hoof/hairline) is it thick or flush?


Umm...I am not sure I know what you mean by "thick or flush." I had been giving him a cup of calf manna once a day, but he was only eating about half or less. He likes it, but would prefer to graze at his grain all day (Zoe, unfortunately, would hoover it up in 3 seconds or less, so that isn't an option). He is "hot" between his toes, but I can't see anything. I will try to get a better look with the vet when she arrives. Ugh. All I want is a happy healthy goat...and I seem to be failing at that (well, he is always happy to see me  so I have half the equation.)


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

goathiker said:


> General health looks good.
> Goat badly needs selenium. He's posturing on the back as well as the front.
> If you shake his rear end does he loose his balance?
> I would give bo.se and vit B. I would also start vit D daily.


Can you clarify "I would give bo.se" I am not sure if that was a typo or just something I am unfamiliar with. Thanks.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> He has a billy block


Does he also have loose minerals? It's the consistency of sand. It is mixed with salt. Goats should have it free choice, and they will eat as much as they need.
When I first got goats I didn't know they needed loose minerals, I only had the blocks, and they became deficient in copper and selenium.
I started them on the loose minerals as soon as I learned about it, but have been giving them additional supplements to get them to catch up. For selenium there are oral products like Replamin + and Selenium/Vit. E gel. BOSE is injectable selenium for more severe deficiency.
One sign of selenium deficiency is low pasterns, where the dew claw looks low to the ground. Another sign is the tail being bent sideways.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

If he is hot between his toes, I would check between them and make sure that he doesn't have foot scald happening up in there, or maybe a cut or something that is festering. Heat in the hoof can also be a sign of founder, but I believe that is up around the hairline, where the hoof connects with the leg of the goat. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that!
That being said, sometimes you just deal with weird, mysterious foot issues. My wether is currently recovering from about a month-and-a-half of being gimpy on one of his front legs. I have been over that goat more times than I can count with a fine-tooth comb, and I have never found the root of what's causing him to limp. I eventually just separated him from the other goats, so he wasn't constantly running around and sparring with them, and he eventually started to improve. I put him back in with his pasture companion a few days ago, and I'm watching him closely to see if he continues to improve, or if I need to give him an even longer break. Again, I never actually figured out what was wrong with him. It drove me a little bit crazy.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Well, the vet did an xray an that showed nothing in the hoof area and some calcification in the knee. We went ahead and did the CAE test as that seems like a possibility, but it will be a week give or take a few days before those results are back. I am praying it is not that. In the meantime, he is still a bit gimpy but seems more and more himself every day. I have given him loose minerals...the billy block wasn't all gone, so I left that in as well (different dish)...is that okay? Now, I will continue to try and put weight on him, and hope for the best. Thanks for the advice and guidance. I did start him on Calf Manna as well...he eats a few bites and then is done, I figure every calorie helps. Zoe would love to eat it for him, but the last thing she needs is more calories, lol. I also gave him some fresh veggies, carrot peels, celery, and bok choy...he loved it...not enough calories for Zoe though, she turned up her nose.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> Well, the vet did an xray an that showed nothing in the hoof area and some calcification in the knee. We went ahead and did the CAE test as that seems like a possibility, but it will be a week give or take a few days before those results are back. I am praying it is not that. In the meantime, he is still a bit gimpy but seems more and more himself every day. I have given him loose minerals...the billy block wasn't all gone, so I left that in as well (different dish)...is that okay? Now, I will continue to try and put weight on him, and hope for the best. Thanks for the advice and guidance. I did start him on Calf Manna as well...he eats a few bites and then is done, I figure every calorie helps. Zoe would love to eat it for him, but the last thing she needs is more calories, lol. I also gave him some fresh veggies, carrot peels, celery, and bok choy...he loved it...not enough calories for Zoe though, she turned up her nose.


Zoe sounds like some of my goats! They really go after the feed. I am sure having the loose mineral and the block both out will be fine. It would be interesting to see which they prefer. 
Keep us posted on the test results! I have found some helpful resources for dealing with CAE. I will continue to hope with you that it isn't the problem, but if it is, and you want help managing symptoms, let me know! I found a Facebook group for dealing with all goat diseases, but specifically CAE. The folks on there are very kind and helpful. There are some good resources here on TGS, too.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Well, I was hoping for the best and preparing for the worst...and it is the worst. Bert's test came back positive for CAE and I am heartbroken. I haven't connected with the vet yet for recommendations for treatment, but if anyone here has suggestions please feel free to add them. :upset:


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Zoe sounds like some of my goats! They really go after the feed. I am sure having the loose mineral and the block both out will be fine. It would be interesting to see which they prefer.
> Keep us posted on the test results! I have found some helpful resources for dealing with CAE. I will continue to hope with you that it isn't the problem, but if it is, and you want help managing symptoms, let me know! I found a Facebook group for dealing with all goat diseases, but specifically CAE. The folks on there are very kind and helpful. There are some good resources here on TGS, too.


Please share, his test did come back positive.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> Please share, his test did come back positive.


The very first thing to consider is that there is a small chance that it could have been a false positive. You may want to retest at a later date, once he's gained a little weight and is healthier. Stress can cause false positives. 
Since Bert is a pet, and I understand you're not planning to start a big goat herd and breed goats, there is no reason you cannot manage his symptoms and give him a happy life up until the day when he lets you know it's time to go. This is the FB group I mentioned. There are several people on there who are in a similar situation to you, and I know they would be happy to give advice. https://m.facebook.com/groups/491790164307160/
There are also some threads on here that may be helpful, though I believe that they are mostly geared toward breeders.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/cae-questions.216923/#post-2447975
Here is the thread I started a few months ago when I was dealing with CAE, and there is another thread linked in the comments of that one. I made the decision to cull my 2 CAE positive does, because I am breeding my goats, and I did not have the time and the energy it would have taken to ensure that CAE did not get passed on to their kids, and other members of my herd (who all tested negative, and I will be retesting annually). Those does did go to a very nice home, though, where they will be used as family milk goats, and the person who has them will be raising their kids on CAE prevention. So, goats that have CAE can still live happy lives.
I am so sorry that you're having to deal with this, and I know that you may have read some very alarming info on the Internet about always slaughtering or culling CAE positive goats, but there is no reason to put Bert down unless he is in pain and is no longer enjoying his life.
I truly wish that more people would begin disease testing their herds. And the reason I started testing mine, is because I did not want to pass heartbreak on to someone else, as has happened to both me and you, ending up with CAE positive goats.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

OMG. Thank you! I haven't found much positive on the internet and have been feeling awfully pessimistic. I don't have time at the moment to start reading, but I will look this weekend. This group is awesome!



Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/cae-questions.216923/#post-2447975
> Here is the thread I started a few months ago when I was dealing with CAE, and there is another thread linked in the comments of that one. I made the decision to cull my 2 CAE positive does, because I am breeding my goats, and I did not have the time and the energy it would have taken to ensure that CAE did not get passed on to their kids, and other members of my herd (who all tested negative, and I will be retesting annually). Those does did go to a very nice home, though, where they will be used as family milk goats, and the person who has them will be raising their kids on CAE prevention. So, goats that have CAE can still live happy lives.
> I am so sorry that you're having to deal with this, and I know that you may have read some very alarming info on the Internet about always slaughtering or culling CAE positive goats, but there is no reason to put Bert down unless he is in pain and is no longer enjoying his life.
> I truly wish that more people would begin disease testing their herds. And the reason I started testing mine, is because I did not want to pass heartbreak on to someone else, as has happened to both me and you, ending up with CAE positive goats.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> OMG. Thank you! I haven't found much positive on the internet and have been feeling awfully pessimistic. I don't have time at the moment to start reading, but I will look this weekend. This group is awesome!


You are welcome! It is an overwhelming subject, I know, and there is still a great deal we don't know about CAE. Everyone has a different opinion about it. I think a lot of the info out there is geared toward managing the spread of CAE in big herds. But since your goats are pets, and you're not endangering anyone else's herd by selling kids, offering stud services, etc., I think there is a very good chance that Bert can have a very happy life, so long as the arthritis pain is managed so he isn't suffering. The folks on that FB group would be able to help you with that. There are people on there who have been successfully managing CAE for years.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

I have seen quite a bit about pepper and turmeric as a natural pain med...can anyone direct me to more information on this? Also, I have heard willow from a willow tree works like asprin in horses, and my goats LOVE my willow tree...anyone know if that might be something he could munch on that might give natural pain relief? 

My vet isn't real knowledgeable on goats, but I love that when I ask her questions she is willing to go research to find out more/answers. She really seems willing to learn with me/for me!! Right now she is looking into glucosamine and if that is something we could try to reduce/prevent more joint damage...again, any insights? Does anyone know of a good goat vet that might be willing to talk with my vet and share ideas and or resources? Is this even a thing vets do?


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Accidental goat mom said:


> I have seen quite a bit about pepper and turmeric as a natural pain med...can anyone direct me to more information on this? Also, I have heard willow from a willow tree works like asprin in horses, and my goats LOVE my willow tree...anyone know if that might be something he could munch on that might give natural pain relief?
> 
> My vet isn't real knowledgeable on goats, but I love that when I ask her questions she is willing to go research to find out more/answers. She really seems willing to learn with me/for me!! Right now she is looking into glucosamine and if that is something we could try to reduce/prevent more joint damage...again, any insights? Does anyone know of a good goat vet that might be willing to talk with my vet and share ideas and or resources? Is this even a thing vets do?


I know willow is safe for goats...just wondering if it might help too...Otherwise I may try it and just track to see if it helps.


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## Dee4 (Oct 26, 2020)

Iam a newby, but was advised by experienced goat breeder to put my 7month old wether on Ram n Lamb caurse mix, it has ammonium chloride in, which is needed to help prevent urinary calci so I've been told, my wether has started to fill out now, and is very active, pee and poop normal, Iam not experienced enough, but was told goats can have sheep grain, but sheep cannot have goats.
Iam sure there are very experienced guys and girls out there to advice you, take care, love from UK


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Here's some info from a farm sanctuary who has had many CAE positive goats. Just scroll down to where it says CAE: https://www.farmsanctuary.org/conte...imal-Care-Goats.pdf#page=5&zoom=auto,-170,734


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> I have seen quite a bit about pepper and turmeric as a natural pain med...can anyone direct me to more information on this? Also, I have heard willow from a willow tree works like asprin in horses, and my goats LOVE my willow tree...anyone know if that might be something he could munch on that might give natural pain relief?
> 
> My vet isn't real knowledgeable on goats, but I love that when I ask her questions she is willing to go research to find out more/answers. She really seems willing to learn with me/for me!! Right now she is looking into glucosamine and if that is something we could try to reduce/prevent more joint damage...again, any insights? Does anyone know of a good goat vet that might be willing to talk with my vet and share ideas and or resources? Is this even a thing vets do?


@NigerianDwarfOwner707 may have some input on this, or may be able to tag others who use natural/holistic remedies.


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

One of the first things I would do is make sure that his hooves are nicely trimmed, which will minimize the amount of stress he is putting on his joints. Are there experienced goat people around you who may be able to help you with this? You have to trim different goats differently, depending on their conformation. This is still something I am working on with my own herd.
Hoof trimming is something I keyed into a long time ago, with horses. We know a really excellent farrier who can fix all sorts of issues in horses by changing how he handles their feet. It's truly remarkable to see what a difference it can make!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Also, I know I recommended Land of Havilah before, but Christy from LOH, or any person who formulates natural remedies for goats might be able to help you come up with some natural pain relievers for Bert.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> Also, I know I recommended Land of Havilah before, but Christy from LOH, or any person who formulates natural remedies for goats might be able to help you come up with some natural pain relievers for Bert.


How would I go about contacting her? Is she on this site? Also, as for a farrier, we have always trimmed ourselves, but I do have a really good horse farrier, I could ask if he does goats...I don't honestly know...


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> How would I go about contacting her? Is she on this site? Also, as for a farrier, we have always trimmed ourselves, but I do have a really good horse farrier, I could ask if he does goats...I don't honestly know...


You can go to the Land of Havilah website. You can pay for a consultation with her. Or if you buy her products, she will also consult with you. There is a contact form on her website where you can tell her what your issues are, and she will recommend products that may be helpful. She usually responds very quickly. 
You could ask your farrier! I just trim hooves myself, and sort of eyeball the goats to see if everything looks right. I'm getting better at it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would contact Kat Drovdahl. [email protected]


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I would contact Kat Drovdahl. [email protected]


She'd be a good one, too! I haven't corresponded with her much, but I know she's very knowledgeable.


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## Accidental goat mom (Aug 18, 2017)

I wanted to thank everyone for the help with Bert as we have tried to get a handle on his CAE. I really feel like we have had a breakthrough with his health and he is getting better. He has started eating his grain (he only gets a cup a day) and today when I went to get him from the hay side of the barn (I let them go nibble there when I clean the barn and feed the horses) he had climbed up the bales! That is usually one of his favorite things to do, but he hadn't been recently. He truly is looking and acting more like himself. He still needs more weight, but that will take a while (wish I could just donate some . Thanks for the support!! The minerals, the pain management, the suggestions to even get a diagnosis...all of these things were priceless!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Just read through this heartwarming post for the first time. Ecstatic to learn how well Bert is doing now. :inlove: Admire your love and devotion to him.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

That great news! Thanks for telling us! I wish Bert continued improvement in his health!!
Give him a good scratch from me! :inlove:


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Accidental goat mom said:


> I wanted to thank everyone for the help with Bert as we have tried to get a handle on his CAE. I really feel like we have had a breakthrough with his health and he is getting better. He has started eating his grain (he only gets a cup a day) and today when I went to get him from the hay side of the barn (I let them go nibble there when I clean the barn and feed the horses) he had climbed up the bales! That is usually one of his favorite things to do, but he hadn't been recently. He truly is looking and acting more like himself. He still needs more weight, but that will take a while (wish I could just donate some . Thanks for the support!! The minerals, the pain management, the suggestions to even get a diagnosis...all of these things were priceless!


I'm so glad he's feeling better! I'm sure you're doing a great job with him. He's fortunate to have you caring for him.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you for the update, most people dissapear and we never know what happened or if we helped at all. 

As he gets older you might want to look into miniature horse sport boots. They will support his lower legs and reduce the damage to his ankles and hooves as his knees get more stiff.

I'm happy he is a wethered pet that can enjoy life. Herbs are great things if used properly. It would be helpful to others if you would post your regiment with him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

👍


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