# What to do with Pride?



## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Well, he's not getting enough milk from his mum - he is almost 4 weeks old now and he has put on a grand total of 1.1kg since birth  

But he refuses to take a bottle when I try and top him up. 

What would you do? Would you take him off her completely and try to bottle raise him, or just leave him with her and hope for the best, try to wean him early onto grain, or what?

Out of my three boer bucks I wanted him to be a long term resident because he is unrelated to my other does ...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

hard call. Can you get him onto grain right now? He is getting something or he would be dead. So can you introduce grain to him and feed him twice a day? and then top off his feed with like a powder milk replacer.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

yeah, he is getting enough just to survive I think. He nibbles a bit of grain and hay with mum, but not much. Thats a good idea about the powdered milk though. I wonder if I set up a creep area whether he will actually use it :shrug: hmmm this is tough


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

could try, put out a small amount, enough to see if he is using it and then you will know. May take him a couple days to recognize it for what it is but I am sure if he is hungry he will catch on


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Either that or you could soak a little food with milk replacer and put it in his mouth.. I would just bottle feed myself to be safer than sorry, especially since he came from your doe Pride; who knows how well she'll be able to kid in the future with that prolapse..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

found this site , an idea that may work? Hopefully.
sorry .....you are having so much trouble...good luck... ray: :hug:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 434AAOuMYO


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## harmonygoats (Nov 20, 2007)

Instead of a bottle offer him milk in a shallow pan or bowl. We had a bottle baby last year that quit drinking the bottle but would drink from a pan.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks everyone, 

toth that link was pretty basic ... all the normal things to try with bottle babies ... which I have been doing for a week and a half ... 

hg ... although I hate bucket feeding, that is something new to try

I thought long and hard today and spoke to some mentors and in the end decided, even though I hate doing it and RARELY do it, I am going to remove him to bottle feed. He is not eating enough pellets yet and leaving him with his mum he is not taking the bottle. I'm going to separate him from her, so he gets really hungry then I am sure he will accept the bottle. The deciding factor was that Vanity herself is not well, she is really struggling so this will help her as well.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I hope it all works out and he starts to thrive. YOu dont need to loose them both :hug:


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh sorry, I got the names mixed up. :sigh: 

Hopefully everything will go ok..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

ha ha Amos I knew what you meant. 

I separated him this morning and they are both crying  making me feel so bad but I do think it is for the best. I will leave him to get hungry and try a bottle tonight


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

not to say what you have done already is wrong......i just would have separated at night :shrug: save you the trouble of hearing them cry :sigh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

stacey, then I would have had to listen to it all night and get no sleep!

this way, he will be done by the time we go to bed and we all enjoy our sleep :greengrin: 

I'm just a wimp I feel bad for taking her baby away from her. I have to keep telling myself it is for the best.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Still screaming, not much voice left, hasnt accepted a bottle yet


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I sure hope he takes it soon. . . . I hate separating moms and babies. I hate weaning too. . . . so sad.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

the longest I have had one go for before accepting a bottle was two days ... I hope he takes to it soon!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

does he have any grain or hay in with him??

when i was trying to get a buck kid on a bottle i had to have all his food taken away.. and then after 6 hours or so he ate alot!!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

He's got ad lib pellets and wheat hay, plus barley straw though he doesnt eat a whole lot

I figure once he gets hungry enough he'll drink


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

use a rubber glove to nurse him with .... they feel more like nipples. warm up the milk and fill up the glove, poke a needle into one of the fingers... see if he sucks ?. :shrug:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

That's a really good idea Pam. I'll have to remember that for future reference!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks toth, I have tried him on a variety of teats, people laugh at my teat collection I have big ones, little ones, fat ones, skinny ones, latex, rubber, silicon, flutter valve, no valve, ones with an x, ones with a round hole, long ones, short ones, screw on ones, push on ones, ones that go onto a lamb bar, ones that go on a normal baby bottle, black ones, yellow ones, red ones, blue ones, clear ones ... 

you get the idea :greengrin:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

have you tried a pan yet??


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

mum just took a pan out for him he licked it once then just tried to get out of the pen to talk to her :roll:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

aww.. maybe he is lonely


are there any other kids around his age you could put on with him.. even a weaned kid?

my stubborn kids like baby bottles , the human kind!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That's a really good idea Pam. I'll have to remember that for future reference!


capriola-nd...your very welcome. 

wow keren .......I am still trying to figure something out.... but...it doesn't help...when you have tried everything....  :doh: :help: :shocked:

I agree with SDK...he does need some kind of companion....


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

he has my bottle lamb prickle and fruit loop the kid in the pen next to him. They can see each other and have nose to nose contact. I did have them all in together but fruit loop chucked him in the water bowl so I separated them. 

I am sure he will drink once he is hungry enough, just not hungry enough yet!


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

He isnt going to get hungry if he has access to hay and or grain. If you want him on a bottle at that age you are going to have to deny him all food till he takes a bottle. I personally would not have taken him from his dam at that age but instead would have put him and his dam in an area where I could have added calf manna to their diet along with alfalfa hay. I would have then dewormed them both then put them both on a 10 day course of cocci meds to hit all angles of why they are both doing poorly. I wish you the best of luck getting him on the bottle and getting to the bottom of why they are not thriving.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Teresa, she has been wormed with two diferent types of drench, treated for external parasites, she has ad lib 20% protein calf pellets (which she consumes in good quantities) as well as ad lib lucerne (alfalfa) hay and ad lib wheaten hay. She has been treated with two different types of antibiotics, one a broad spectrum drug for general infections, the other a more narrow spectrum which contains the cocci drug. She has been treated for mineral deficiency with both an injectable and oral product, plus on going access to mineral blocks. 

I do not deny any kids pellets or hay; if he gets hungry and wont take the bottle well he will learn to eat more pellets, and that is fine too. Either way he will either take to milk or hard feed and he might actually survive this way.


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

keren said:


> I do not deny any kids pellets or hay; if he gets hungry and wont take the bottle well he will learn to eat more pellets, and that is fine too. Either way he will either take to milk or hard feed and he might actually survive this way.


At his age he needs milk more than anything else. You say you feed calf pellets, make sure there is no urea in them. At his age if he hasnt been on cocci prevention I would have a fecal done and make sure that isnt the problem. The stress of being removed from mom at his age sets him up for a worm and cocci overload big time. Kids grow bigger quicker on milk than on pellets.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

side note... if mom's been on all kinds of antibiotics and wormed... wouldn't her gut bugs be low in numbers.. making it harder to break down food and make milk??


maybe momma just needs added tummy bugs


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## trob1 (Oct 5, 2007)

SDK said:


> side note... if mom's been on all kinds of antibiotics and wormed... wouldn't her gut bugs be low in numbers.. making it harder to break down food and make milk??
> 
> maybe momma just needs added tummy bugs


I agree.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Forgot to mention been on bucket loads of probiotics between treatments, both of them.

No urea in my calf pellets. Pellets have a coccidiostat which he will get through mum. He has been wormed. 

He is only struggling because she hasnt got enough milk.

I have weaned at 4 weeks previously with no problems. Your management has to be a lot better but it can be done.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

maybe you should try milk booster plants

Dill
Fennel
Nettles
Red Raspberry

i know there are more.. i just can't think


i really hope he starts to pick up for you keren.. 

have you tried b12?? i give my goats a boost of b12 when they aren't eating up to par. maybe pride could use that


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

yep all that sort of stuff.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

hmm

miracle grow??

haha jk

maybe you aren't warming his milk to his liking


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

well last night when he had like three or four sucks the milk had cooled to lukewarm so I'm figuring he doesnt like it too hot.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

haha lets go golidlocks on pride...


do one cold.. 

one mild 
and one hot hahah


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

:ROFL:


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Silly question..

What is 'ad lib'? Never heard of that.. it is just me or an Australian thing?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Ad lib: Abbreviation for the Latin "ad libitum" meaning "at pleasure" and "at one's pleasure, as much as one desires, to the full extent of one's wishes."

Thus, ad lib hay and pellets means that there is sufficient feed available for her to eat as much as she wants, whenever she wants. 

I believe many Americans use the term 'free choice' for ad lib.


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Why thank you Keren! I just learned some more Latin =]


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

He just drank 90ml from the pan. 

Much as I hate pan/bucket feeding, looks like this might be what the little guy wants. 

Amos, they do say you should learn something new everyday


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

yay for pride!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

yep, its a start anyway


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

hasnt taken anything from bottle or pan since 4pm yesterday, its now 8am. 

Silly Pride!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

how is the little one today? :worried:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

uh, I was making a little bit of progress with pan feeding 

then my mother went and put him back with vanity while I was in town this morning 

:angry: 

So there goes that idea  

I think I'm just gonna be stuck with an ethiopian buck


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

keren said:


> uh, I was making a little bit of progress with pan feeding
> 
> then my mother went and put him back with vanity while I was in town this morning
> 
> ...


maybe you should change his name to darfur


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

...I am sorry your mum did that....you can still try the pan...I hope it will work out... ray: :hug:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

little snot doesnt want anything to do with me or milk while he's back with his mum

oh man, if I want to do anything I'll have to start all over and it took about three days for him to even think about drinking something before ... 

one way or another, he's not going to be going to all the shows I had planned for him


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

good luck keren...I am sorry ...  you have a set back again...


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