# Predators on the trail



## Taffy (Dec 9, 2011)

I am new to goat packing. How often are there issues with cougar, grizzly, wild & domestic dogs when you are on the trail? How have you handled any interaction with predators? I want to be as prepared as possible before heading out.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

My goats do not wonder far from me when i am on the trail. so i prepare for predators as I do to defend my self.
first i deploy an early warning system by putting bells on my goats. the bells warn the predators that i am in the country. the bells also give me a warning that something is spooking the goats. the bells are annoying on the trail but necessary.

I also carry pepper spray it will stop most attacks from predators that are with in 30 feet of you. remember to move to the side if you spray a bear that is attacking. the bear may not see you but he will keep coming and try to find you. by stepping to the side the bear will run blindly past you. then get the heck out of dodge because you have one really mad bear near you.

for attacks that are farther than 30 feet way i have a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buck shot then slugs and another buck shot followed by a slug.
first the big bang of shot gun fired in to the air will quickly establish your dominance and stop most dog and cat attacks.
the alternated loads of buckshot and slugs is the fastest way to drop a bear. 
Leave the pistol at home it will only piss the bear off.

one note about Wolves if you see wolves that are aggressive but not advancing be aware that there may be one sneaking up behind you. It happened to a friend of mine. He was lucky and stopped the rear attack when it was just 10 feet from him.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

In 17 years the only issue has been with other hikers dogs. I carry pepper spray as the main deterrent and a pistol big enough to get the job done if necessary. 

Besides accidents happen and if a goat has a serious injury making it impossible to get him home then I want to be able to dispatch it as quickly and humanely as possible.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

I agree with the others. I have only had problems with dogs. And several of those almost turned out very badly. I was able to kick one dog and whack two others with my walking stick. Fortunately that's all it took, because pulling my pistol and shooting the dog would have really made the situation worse with the owner. But if necessary, I am prepared to do that. My first line of defense against dogs is a my walking stick. Then it's rocks and boots. As a last resort it's the .38 pistol. The walking stick is also useful to keep goats from running over me from behind. When I hear them coming I turn my stick horizontal a little below waist level and they give me plenty of room. They have learned not to crowd the stick. I have never tried bear spray or pepper spray. Just one more thing to keep track of and be able to get to quickly. We have lots of black bears here, but they avoid people.

As for wild predators, I haven't had any problems. I don't like bells on the goats while we are hiking because they bug me and may scare off other critters (which I may want to see). But around camp I put a bell on one of my boys to act as a warning to me and to other animals. That plus my ugliness and stink is probably why I haven't had any problems with wild predators (or wild women).


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## nebowhunter (Apr 18, 2010)

I lost three packers this year in New Mexico. It was domestic dogs 
That got them. After talking with locals it appears that a homeless man lives on the mountain and has about 8 dogs that he let's have the run or the mountain. I didn't have the pleasure if meeting him. Which is probably a good thing for both of us. What made me angry more than anything is the fact that when I took the ones that survived to town (Toas, New Mexico) I couldn't even get a vet to walk out of his office and look at them. I guess Vets must not take some sort of oath. And I went to more than one vet clinic.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

That's a real bummer about your goats and the jerk vets. Maybe they were all too busy cleaning teeth and expressing anal glands on movie stars' dogs.

Did you see the dogs attacking your goats? Could you have shot them? It sure would have been legal to do so.


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## nebowhunter (Apr 18, 2010)

I did not see the dogs. If I had it would not have been an issue the dogs would have been taken care of. The goats were in a livestock catch pen that was woven wire 5ft tall. I also had a radio playing that would have kept any wild animals from coming into camp. We were only gone 3 maybe 4 hours. Who would have thaught you would have to worry about domestic dogs if at least unattended ones in the mountains 8 miles from town. Had I known I would have loaded them in the trailer while I was gone.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

What a disaster. So sorry.
Dogs have always been my number 1 worry. One good thing about the Rocky Mtn states is that with all the wild predators it's hard for dogs to go feral and survive. The only place I really have to worry about dogs is near places where people live or gather. But they could show up anywhere.


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