# OK, It's Official. I HATE Disbudding!



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Seriously, I understand all the arguments for disbudding goats. We show for ADGA and 4-H, so we can't even opt out if we want to. And I really DO like owning goats without horns.

Still. I hate, Hate, HATE disbudding them.

HATE!

LOATHE!

DESPISE!

As many of you know, we had 8 kids born as 2 sets of quads. One set were polled and the second set - all boys - were horned. Since they were quads, they were small little buggars. So we waited until day 7 to disbud (I usually aim for day 4). Even then, I wasn't sure if our runt, Amos was physically large enough to burn. He's growing well and is quite frisky and sweet and happy. But he's tiny!

However, his buds were not particularly tiny. So yesterday we went for it.

Let me add that this is my 9th year disbudding goats - so I am not a novice. In all that time we've never had a mishap with a doeling and we've only ever had one boy react weirdly. Eyes rolled pant, excessive panting, etc. He was a LaMancha. We gave him banamine and iced his head and he was fine after a few minutes.

But yesterday totally sucked. We did Amos first. My daughter held him and we did the first bud. Instead of fighting and squealing, he just went limp. Eyes rolled back. Tongue sideways out of his mouth. I swear he stopped breathing altogether for a minute or so. It. Was HORRIBLE!. We iced his head, gave him banamine (Did you ever try to give 1/2cc shot?) and pampered the heck out of him. Both my daughters and I were crying!

But we had more to do. So we let Amos rest. Isaiah sailed along perfectly and cheerfully sucked down his bottle. But Joshua reacted too. Not as strongly, but still pretty bad. More banamine. More ice. More snuggles.

Daniel's disbudding seemed to go ok, but shortly afterward his head started swelling above his eye. So MORE banamine.

By this time Amos had recovered and nursed, so with much trepidation we finished his other side. Thankfully, that side went perfectly normally.

Then while we were debating wether or not to try a figure 8, My iron burned right through its own cord. Pzzzzzzsssssssst! Great... That's ok, we decided their heads were too stinking small to even try a figure 8.

Today, Isaiah looks fabulous. But all three of the other boys have been scratching at their heads. They are all white and I just plastered them all with blue kote.

Yes, Groovy has tie-dyed babies.

All this is to ask: Do YOU do figure 8's on Nigerians bucklings? And if so, HOW? Because those heads are little!!!!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Disbudding is never pleasant. I had trouble one year like that. After that year, I gave Banamine 30 minutes prior to disbudding. Didn't see a problem after that.


----------



## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

How awful! I know how scary it is! I had animes buckling disbudded yesterday. Wasn't quite that scary but still had me worried for a couple seconds! He wouldn't hold his head up and stopped moving. I freaked out and the gal who was disbudding him freaked out. After a couple of seconds he was perfectly fine though. Definitely a scary moment! I don't do figure 8s on my nigies. Normally the tip of the iron is large enough that it covers the whole area. I've never had problems but I could just be lucky.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Sounds scary! I am thankful we raise Boer and keep horns - even market/commercial 4-H projects can have horns (just have to tip them so they are blunt/not sharp). 
I went to a Goat field day event last weekend, and saw a couple of kids getting disbudded - something I'd never seen in person and it just seemed horrible - the vet who did it was a pro, she is also a very highly regarded vet in our state, as well as successful breeder. I told her I don't think I could ever do that, I'd have to hire her to do it for me! It does look simple enough if things went right, but the smell, then just the risks and odd things - like what happened to you. It would just terrify me. Who knows maybe one day I'd try it, but for now... banding and tattooing/tagging are enough for me.


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> Disbudding is never pleasant. I had trouble one year like that. After that year, I gave Banamine 30 minutes prior to disbudding. Didn't see a problem after that.


I will DEFINITELY be doing that from now on. Especially with bucklings!!!


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm so with you on this one! It's one of the reasons I am disappointed when we get doelings. I leave horns on our bucklings, but we disbud the does and I HATE it with a passion. It seems terribly cruel to do something so painful that also seems so unnecessary. The only reason I do it is because no one keeps horned dairy does and I don't want our girls going to the meat market because of horns. I would have no problem keeping horned dairy does myself, but at the age of disbudding I don't yet know which ones we'll keep and which we'll sell (and I suppose even the "keepers" may get sold eventually) so as much as I hate it, I disbud my poor girls.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That is crazy! I have never had that happen before. I wonder if it’s because they are just so small and the heat gets to them so badly. That is scary. I’ve probably done a few 100 over the years and sure they scream a bit when it’s being done but then go on like nothing ever happened.


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> That is crazy! I have never had that happen before. I wonder if it's because they are just so small and the heat gets to them so badly. That is scary. I've probably done a few 100 over the years and sure they scream a bit when it's being done but then go on like nothing ever happened.


 I know. I thought I had done something wrong. But I did Isaiah with no issues at all. I'm going to take Karen's advice and premedicate with banamine from now on!


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

> (Did you ever try to give 1/2cc shot?)


Get a box of 1cc syringes. They are a life saver with these little doses! I always give banamine before disbudding too.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

made me glad we chose to keep the horns!


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree about the hating, despising, loathing disbudding. Last year I disbudded 51 of 52 doe kids and 25 of the boys. The rest went with horns. I'm up to 22 kids disbudded this year. I hate doing it. 
I think it's a psychological thing. My heart races and I swear it's gonna stop. Burning baby heads just is awful. (They all turn out well, it's harder on me than them).


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Oh no i am so sorry! We had the vet disbud... and i will pay him every year to do it. Granted we dont have that many but those pittiful cries even sedated were horrible. . I cannot remember if ours were a week or two when he did it. I think closer to two really. But he didnt do the figure eight on the buckling and he does not seem to have any scurs. He did burn three times i think. It was a pretty wide ring on all three kids.


----------



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Poor babies. I think the horns are an important part of the goat, but I understand why disbudding is done, like what @Damfino said. I wish disbudding wasn't a thing and horns were just considered fine, but that's not reality sadly.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

So I'm curious I researched briefly on the pro's and cons of disbudding, but probably not as in depth as I could have. For those of you that really hate it but choose to disbud anyways can I ask why? 

Seriously no judging here I'm genuinely curious on the rational.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ScottE said:


> So I'm curious I researched briefly on the pro's and cons of disbudding, but probably not as in depth as I could have. For those of you that really hate it but choose to disbud anyways can I ask why?
> 
> Seriously no judging here I'm genuinely curious on the rational.


Most dairy breeds you need to disbud or they can not be shown or because it is so common to do with dairy goats you can't find a buyer to buy them if they have horns. I personally will never own another dairy goat with horns after I had to get rid of my lamanchas. Their horns grew more up and at a V so they were hooking my other goats legs and the goats could not get their legs out. With boers at the base it is more of a U so even if they hook someone they can get away. 
I can't say I hate it, it is defiantly not something that I wake up early in the morning excited to do but I have to disbud my Boer wethers or they can not be sold and shown at the fair. We can't get away with just blunt tips as mentioned above, here they need to be fully disbudded.


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

We do figure 8 on our bucklings.
How?
Lotsa practice.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> Most dairy breeds you need to disbud or they can not be shown or because it is so common to do with dairy goats you can't find a buyer to buy them if they have horns. I personally will never own another dairy goat with horns after I had to get rid of my lamanchas. Their horns grew more up and at a V so they were hooking my other goats legs and the goats could not get their legs out. With boers at the base it is more of a U so even if they hook someone they can get away.
> I can't say I hate it, it is defiantly not something that I wake up early in the morning excited to do but I have to disbud my Boer wethers or they can not be sold and shown at the fair. We can't get away with just blunt tips as mentioned above, here they need to be fully disbudded.


I guess my question is why is it such a common practice in America? The answer seems to be because everyone else expects it to be done that way.

Many other parts of the world it's more common to raise goats with horns? What is it about our farming practices that we've fallen into the expectation of disbudding?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m on the meat side of things so can only answer on what I have seen discussed. One I have heard that on dairies that horns are not ideal for the head gates for when they are being milked. Another issue is on dairies the goats are more in smaller areas, not saying they are so much so that it is not healthy or is cruel but they are not out wild and free so there is more chance of injuries caused by horns. 
In a way yes I guess you are correct that it’s done because it is expected to be done. But so many people do not want to deal with horns that it will eventually come down to being able to sell a disbudded kid that can be shown or put into production or having no one buying it and it having to be butchered. 
I’m honestly not pro or con disbudding. But I can respect both sides of it. I have had heads stuck in fences and feeders. For me it’s not a big deal I’m here, I hear them hollering and I go out and save them. But not everyone is home all the time like I am so I get why they won’t touch a horned goat. Everyone does what they think is best for their goats and what they have going on. But also like I said I have never had a issue disbudding. My boys cry more over being banded then the kids that I disbud do. I mean not the whole process, but after. I don’t fool myself they do make a big deal out of it when I’m actually doing it so I know there is a degree of discomfort but they also scream bloody murder when I am simply clipping the hair on their head too


----------



## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am sorry you had some trouble. Disbudding day was always my least favorite.
At first we used a disbudding box. It did a great job of immobilizing the kid but they would often faint or even seize (twitch and jerk). So we switched to me holding the kid across my lap while my hubby did the burn. We never had any serious problems after that.
We disbudded purely for safety reasons. We had too many close calls with getting hooked, kids would get their horns stuck between slats and goats would hurt each other.


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

luvmyherd said:


> I am sorry you had some trouble. Disbudding day was always my least favorite.
> At first we used a disbudding box. It did a great job of immobilizing the kid but they would often faint or even seize (twitch and jerk). So we switched to me holding the kid across my lap while my hubby did the burn. We never had any serious problems after that.
> We disbudded purely for safety reasons. We had too many close calls with getting hooked, kids would get their horns stuck between slats and goats would hurt each other.


We always wrap them in a towel and hold them to disbud. My youngest daughter and my hubby are great at holding!


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> We do figure 8 on our bucklings.
> How?
> Lotsa practice.
> 
> View attachment 155585


 Wow...on Nigey heads it's more like a chain than an 8, isn't it? I've done the 8s on LaManchas, but I've never managed it on the little guys. I do look for the growth ridge and make sure I get it if the initial burn did not. But most of the time I can't see anything else to burn after I do the first ring.


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I hate disbudding. I've been doing it for 35 years or so, and still HATE it. But, I hate horns even worse.


----------



## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> We do figure 8 on our bucklings.
> How?
> Lotsa practice.
> 
> View attachment 155585


Must be why ours are mostly growing scurs. Breeder who did it for us did not do that.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

ScottE said:


> So I'm curious I researched briefly on the pro's and cons of disbudding, but probably not as in depth as I could have. For those of you that really hate it but choose to disbud anyways can I ask why?
> 
> Seriously no judging here I'm genuinely curious on the rational.


As I said previously and as others have stated, I only do it so my girls are marketable as dairy animals. Also, I like to show my girls and so might the people I sell them to, and ADGA disallows horned goats from showing (a stance I strongly disagree with). If ADGA were to start allowing horned goats to compete, I would stop disbudding my girls because I think there would then be enough of a "horned dairy goat" market that my girls would have a better chance of not ending up on a meat truck if they had horns.

Disbudding is a less common practice among dairy producers in Europe. If they can run horned milk goats safely then I see no reason why we could not do it in the U.S. as well. I believe if horns were more common among dairy goats, people may start breeding for more desirable horn shape and mellower personalities. The problems with goats getting heads caught or with not being able to fit their heads in stanchions can largely be solved by redesigning these things with horns in mind. For example, my milking stanchion opens up to accommodate horned goats. My packgoats keep their horns so I researched and bought a stanchion that they and the girls can both use (and fit on--many milking stanchions are too small for my big boys!). Managing horned goats is not such a big deal if you plan for them, but many people would rather blame the horns for problems than blame their own management style.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Damfino said:


> As I said previously and as others have stated, I only do it so my girls are marketable as dairy animals. Also, I like to show my girls and so might the people I sell them to, and ADGA disallows horned goats from showing (a stance I strongly disagree with). If ADGA were to start allowing horned goats to compete, I would stop disbudding my girls because I think there would then be enough of a "horned dairy goat" market that my girls would have a better chance of not ending up on a meat truck if they had horns.
> 
> Disbudding is a less common practice among dairy producers in Europe. If they can run horned milk goats safely then I see no reason why we could not do it in the U.S. as well. I believe if horns were more common among dairy goats, people may start breeding for more desirable horn shape and mellower personalities. The problems with goats getting heads caught or with not being able to fit their heads in stanchions can largely be solved by redesigning these things with horns in mind. For example, my milking stanchion opens up to accommodate horned goats. My packgoats keep their horns so I researched and bought a stanchion that they and the girls can both use (and fit on--many milking stanchions are too small for my big boys!). Managing horned goats is not such a big deal if you plan for them, but many people would rather blame the horns for problems than blame their own management style.


Thank you for the long reply! I guess that's why I was so baffled I built my own stanchion and feeders, and I can already see I'm going to need to redesign them as the next generation grows up with horns, but that doesn't seem like a hardship. Also, all my girls spend all day outside in the brush and I can see them wanting horns to rub at bark.

I guess if I had a commercial dairy with 100+ goats and was buying pre-made equipment and feeding indoors I might have a different veiw.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I milk commercially and try to sell the kids (all registered or registerable) anywhere but the sale barn. Unfortunately, most of the bucklings end up at the sale barn, but, if disbudded, have a better chance at being someone's herd sire, 4-H wether in the pet class or a pet. I really cannot have horns on my milkers, but I still don't like disbudding. I hate banding worse! Oh well, it's all part of the joys of goat ownership!


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Goats Rock said:


> I milk commercially and try to sell the kids (all registered or registerable) anywhere but the sale barn. Unfortunately, most of the bucklings end up at the sale barn, but, if disbudded, have a better chance at being someone's herd sire, 4-H wether in the pet class or a pet. I really cannot have horns on my milkers, but I still don't like disbudding. I hate banding worse! Oh well, it's all part of the joys of goat ownership!


I've heard people talk about the sale barn what is that? Just for butchering?


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sale barn is just that. A place to take goats to sell at auction. Many do go for meat but not all. You do have to be careful because many people take their sick and problem goats there but sometimes you can get a great goat there.


----------



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> many people take their sick and problem goats there


----------



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Damfino said:


> The problems with goats getting heads caught or with not being able to fit their heads in stanchions can largely be solved by redesigning these things with horns in mind. Managing horned goats is not such a big deal if you plan for them, but many people would rather blame the horns for problems than blame their own management style.


:up: :nod:

I am totally guilty of blaming the horns.
Goats have horns, IMO accommodations should be made for them!


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes accommodations can be made but I’m sure on larger scales it’s not a easy and cheap fix. All I can speak of is fencing, when I put my fence in no climb (the smaller holes) was over double the price of a roll of field fencing (larger holes heads can get stuck) beef panels are $25 for 16’ and the 4X4 is $60 for 16’. Yeah a fence was better then no fence so I was just fine getting heads unstuck. Now I did invest in hot fence and that took care of that years down the road. But it might not be that simple for some. All I say is as long as who ever is disbudding or not as long as they have a logical reason behind it, even sales of kids, I respect their choice.


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Damfino said:


> It seems terribly cruel to do something so painful that also seems so unnecessary.


Exactly my thought! If I were closer, and had more energy, I would for sure "bomb" that stupid ADGA with pleas for mercy to all little innocent creatures!!


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ScottE said:


> I guess my question is why is it such a common practice in America? The answer seems to be because everyone else expects it to be done that way.
> 
> Many other parts of the world it's more common to raise goats with horns? What is it about our farming practices that we've fallen into the expectation of disbudding?


Yes, here the normal dairy goat has horns, if not born without them. Some people put Plastic Padding on the tips to avoid damages from butting, and maybe one could tie a string between horn tips (lengthen as horns grow!), but in mine and others' experience, animals with horns are more peaceful. Most dairy goat keepers have mixed flocks, or only animals with natural (BEAUTIFUL!!) horns.

Disbudding or castration without an effective pain killer is for sure forbidden here. The practice has been used, but not so very frequently. In answer to your question, I personally suspect that the tradition in America is more rude. You have rodeos and not so long ago it was normal to burn mark cattle?


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ScottE said:


> I can see them wanting horns to rub at bark.


Sorry, also my hornless born ones did that. It is because their smell glands sit just behind and between the horns - or the place where the horns would have been.

*searching in my memory to find nice pictures for you from goat milk farms with horns* (No, the GOATS have horns, not the farms!)


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This is not a debate about whether goats should keep their horns or not. Keep it friendly. Keep it fun. Keep on topic.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

We still burn mark cattle, which is known as to brand cattle. It is the only permanent way to mark cattle to know who the owner is. It may not be something that people who do not make a living with cattle doesn’t like but as a cattle rancher it is something that is critical to be done. If there is no permanent visible marking on the animal there would be no way to keep others from taking my cows and claiming as their own. There is no proof to for me to say that is mine and I can get them back. In the end that means no cattle, or even less cattle, which means I can’t pay my bills which means I loose my home and have no money to feed my children. And with two of the neighbors I have that is a VERY real possibility


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Which entries are off topic? Can they form another thread?


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> We still burn mark cattle, which is known as to brand cattle. It is the only permanent way to mark cattle to know who the owner is.


It is a long time since I first read about freeze marking, which is commonly used on trotting horses here. It gives an easily readable white row of white figures, forming a 6- or 7-figured number.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The posts about whether goats should be disbudded or not is off topic. There are a ton of threads on the debate of horns or no horns. This thread doesn't need to be another one. There were some strong words against people who chose to disbud. There is no need for that. This thread was just someone wanting to vent about disliking it and the problems they were having. They were given ideas to help the problem. That is the topic and that is where it needs to stay.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> This is not a debate about whether goats should keep their horns or not. Keep it friendly. Keep it fun. Keep on topic.


Thank you yes! I'm really not trying to judge one way or the other I'm brand new to goats and just trying to figure out why sisbudding is so in grained into American goat husbandry but it's not in other countries. I'm not makeing a value judgment or saying disbudding is evil.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> Yes, here the normal dairy goat has horns, if not born without them. Some people put Plastic Padding on the tips to avoid damages from butting, and maybe one could tie a string between horn tips (lengthen as horns grow!), but in mine and others' experience, animals with horns are more peaceful. Most dairy goat keepers have mixed flocks, or only animals with natural (BEAUTIFUL!!) horns.
> 
> Disbudding or castration without an effective pain killer is for sure forbidden here. The practice has been used, but not so very frequently. In answer to your question, I personally suspect that the tradition in America is more rude. You have rodeos and not so long ago it was normal to burn mark cattle?


Where is here trollmor?


----------



## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

ScottE said:


> Where is here trollmor?


She is in Sweden.


----------



## Sophie123 (Feb 18, 2019)

I am glad we have mostly meat goats , with horns. Down side: they get their heads stuck in the fence. 
We have 4 milk goat bucklings ( Nubian /Kiko and Lamancha /Kiko) and it didn't even occur to us that horns might be a problem selling them. Too late now...
If we get any females next year, I will not disbud the milk goat. I just don't see any reason to do this. 

I hate banding them . It doesn't seem to bother them all that much, but just the thought of it bothers me.


----------



## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Banding and disbudding are similar. They are uncomfortable for a bit and then just go on nursing and munching. I think it bothers us way more than it bothers them. (Just from by own experience and observation.)


----------



## whitejerabias (May 6, 2019)

Questions: Once you have horns/miss the disbudding window you are stuck with the horns, yes? Any resources to share on trimming/blunting the ends? Also, when do the horns stop growing and are they different on wethers than does?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No you can band their horns. I’m on my phone and can’t copy another thread and post here but if you do a search there’s is a very good thread about it on here.
But if you choose to just blunt the tip and leave the horns on that can be done too. At the tip of the horn there is no blood flow. You can take the tip off pretty easy. Depending on the size of the horn you can use your hoof trimmers or if they are larger horns I have used tree loppers. Just take a little at a time off that way if you do hit the blood it’s not too much. Keep some flour or corn starch with you to put on just in case you do hit it.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Sophie123 said:


> I am glad we have mostly meat goats , with horns. Down side: they get their heads stuck in the fence.
> We have 4 milk goat bucklings ( Nubian /Kiko and Lamancha /Kiko) and it didn't even occur to us that horns might be a problem selling them. Too late now...
> If we get any females next year, I will not disbud the milk goat. I just don't see any reason to do this.
> 
> I hate banding them . It doesn't seem to bother them all that much, but just the thought of it bothers me.


When I banded mine I wanted to say this is hurting me more than you... but I know that's not really true :/


----------



## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

We took on a full-grown pair of Saneen-Toggenburg girl’s with deadly horns. When it became clear that we might loose one of our goats to their horns, we researched banding horns and decided to try that. For those of you who are curious, you use 1-2 castration bands at the base of each horn - trying to get them right down at the base of the horn. Depending on the shape of the horn, a little duct tape magic might be needed to hold them on at first. It does seem to give them a low-grade headache for a while, but honestly, there are no pain-free ways to remove an appendage!

It takes a while (1 month for kids, 2 months for adults) for the bands to sink in far enough to kill the horn. If a band gives way, it has to be replaced with a new band. We had these two girls separated for their sakes as well as the herd - which was important. The younger girl, quite active, still managed to knock off a loose horn before it was ready. Its bleeding was impressive - and persistent, but easily brought under control with liberal dosing of black pepper on the bleed (now we keep Blood-stop on hand). Her other horn and both of her mother’s horns fell off when they were ready with no further drama.

Once their weapons were gone, they integrated easily into the herd. They are sweet and wonderful goats that I am so glad to have!

Given this experience, we stopped debudding our kids (who doesn’t loathe that experience). We know that if a goat’s horns become a danger to themselves or others, we can deal with it! Besides, my husband likes horns as “handles”.


----------



## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

smlovig said:


> We took on a full-grown pair of Saneen-Toggenburg girl's with deadly horns. When it became clear that we might loose one of our goats to their horns, we researched bands horns and decided to try that. For those of you who are curious, you use 1-2 castration bands at the base of each horn - trying to get them right down at the base of the horn. Depending on the shape of the horn, a little duct tape magic might be needed to hold them on at first. It does seem to give them a low-grade headache for a while, but honestly, there are no pain-free ways to remove an appendage!
> 
> It takes a while (1-2 months) for the bands to sink in far enough to kill the horn. If a band gives way, it has to be replaced with a new band. We had these two girls separated for their sakes as well as the herd - which was important. The younger girl, quite active, still managed to knock off a loose horn before it was ready. It bleeding was impressive - and persistent, but easily brought under control with liberal dosing of black pepper on the bleed (now we keep Blood-stop on hand). Her other horn and both of her mother's horns fell off when they were ready with no further drama.
> 
> ...


I'm suprised those bands exert enough force to constrict blood supply inside the horn.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I had to band my sons wether this year because I botched disbudding. Actually I think the iron is messed up, but anyways, there was more crying with the banding but it only lasted a hour or so. One horn actually just came off this morning! I could also tell threw the month when he ended up banging into something with his horns because he would stand there pouting. I don’t think I will give up disbudding for banding. With disbudding it’s done and kids are gone at weaning, banding you have to wait to put the bands on and then wait a month or so for them to come off. But banding sure did a nice clean job! I will give it that! We have 3 more month till the fair so we will see if any scurs come on before then


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ScottE said:


> Where is here trollmor?


I am goatless, living in Sweden, Northern Europe. Thanks to the Golf Stream, we can live here at around 60° North!


----------



## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

My two does never developed scars from having their horns banded off - and I certainly can’t say that for the kids we had previously banded. True, it takes a lot longer to band kids than to burn the horns off, but it is so much less stressful all the way around!


----------



## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

By the way, if anyone wants to buy a premium debudding tool that has only been used for 5 kids, I have one for sale! Just reply to this post for details!


----------



## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Will this thread be interesting?

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/me-too-i-hate-disbudding.205689/


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

smlovig said:


> By the way, if anyone wants to buy a premium debudding tool that has only been used for 5 kids, I have one for sale! Just reply to this post for details!


 Can you PM me your asking price? Also, what size is the iron tip?


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Oy Vey. Just realized that 2 of the kids we thought were polled, weren't. *sigh* Fortunately, they were still do-able - although the buckling took a little extra work. I did give banamine beforehand this time and applied ice packs in between burns.

They both dealt really well with the whole process.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad this 2nd round worked out well.


----------



## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

groovyoldlady said:


> Can you PM me your asking price? Also, what size is the iron tip?


Hopefully this is "PM" - otherwise I don't know how to do that. The tip is the small sheep/goat size. We bought it new for $85 + shipping. It comes with a warranty card you can submit. How about $50 + shipping?


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks for getting back to me. Lemme talk to my hubby and my daughter (He funds our "hobby" and the goats belong to my daughter.)


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I just delivered 22 kids in 4 days. Guess what I'll be doing all weekend! (18 were buck kids) . Gonna be a lot of wailing kids, for sure! ( that is just because they hate "The Box"! ) I ear tattoo after the disbudding. So purple horn area and green ears on Saanens. It will be colorful. Another 12+ does due this week. 
And I Still Hate Disbudding! mg:


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> I just delivered 22 kids in 4 days. Guess what I'll be doing all weekend! (18 were buck kids) . Gonna be a lot of wailing kids, for sure! ( that is just because they hate "The Box"! ) I ear tattoo after the disbudding. So purple horn area and green ears on Saanens. It will be colorful. Another 12+ does due this week.
> And I Still Hate Disbudding! mg:


 Oh. My. Word! I admire you, but I do NOT envy you!!!!!!:crazy:


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> We do figure 8 on our bucklings.
> How?
> Lotsa practice.
> 
> View attachment 155585


 What size tip does your iron have?


----------

