# New LaMancha Doe, Possible Show Quality?



## Aslea

We just bought Amelia today. She's ADGA registered, not sure out of who just yet (haven't seen papers yet). She was bought by her previous owner for apparently $3000 as a yearling or two year old. She's unbred but is producing about 3 cups of milk, goodness knows how.

I'm not the best at squaring goats up, so if I need to square/stack her up any different do tell me how and I'll get more pics! She's a little rugged looking and I can't shave her just yet.


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## Aslea

Her face as well.


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## FarmerInaDress

What a pretty girl! I am no expert, but my thoughts are that her front end is very nice with a nice long neck. Her top line looks pretty nice and she is uphill. It appears that she could use better blending from the heart girth into the chest floor. Front legs look pretty straight, though from the picture she may toe out a bit? It's hard to tell. Pasterns look good and upright. In the first picture you have her rear legs set back too far and too wide. In the second they are set better, but still a bit too far back. How old is she? She could use more depth and capacity, but if she is young that may develop with time and subsequent freshenings. Rump could be less sloped, but not bad. 

A pic from the front and the rear would be helpful.

You say they bought her for $3000 and never freshened her? Wow, why?


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## goathiker

I have the perfect buck for her. He will add depth to the kids while retaining the other good qualities. Plus he increases teat size on welded on udders.


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## ptgoats45

Get some groceries into her and that should improve her depth some. For a dry doe she is fairly thin. Was she fresh last year? Might want to have a fecal done and make sure she is not wormy. She is fairly short bodied and doesn't appear to have a lot of natural width. 

Did your friends buy her at the Colorama Sale? That or the Spotlight Sale is the only place I can see a goat selling for that much, most breeders don't offer their goats that high. If she was in either of those sales that means she was selected by a committee from a number of different applicants


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## GreenMountainNigerians

goathiker said:


> I have the perfect buck for her. He will add depth to the kids while retaining the other good qualities. Plus he increases teat size on welded on udders.


Dexter is very nice. I like the doe. I don't know a lot about the breed but she looks like with some weight on her shed look really good. She's very pretty!

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## Aslea

FarmerInaDress said:


> What a pretty girl! I am no expert, but my thoughts are that her front end is very nice with a nice long neck. Her top line looks pretty nice and she is uphill. It appears that she could use better blending from the heart girth into the chest floor. Front legs look pretty straight, though from the picture she may toe out a bit? It's hard to tell. Pasterns look good and upright. In the first picture you have her rear legs set back too far and too wide. In the second they are set better, but still a bit too far back. How old is she? She could use more depth and capacity, but if she is young that may develop with time and subsequent freshenings. Rump could be less sloped, but not bad.
> 
> A pic from the front and the rear would be helpful.
> 
> You say they bought her for $3000 and never freshened her? Wow, why?


That's what I am wondering. Maybe Alicia (previous owner) wanted to breed purebreds and only had a bad producing boer sire. She bought a LaMancha buckling but he got sick a whole lot of times and died. Amelia is healthy, though.

I have a really weird feeling they thought she'd make milk without being bred, honestly. Thanks for the critique, btw!


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## canyontrailgoats

I hope she's fertile and capable of breeding, it's suspicious how she never got pregnant :/ .


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## Aslea

ptgoats45 said:


> Get some groceries into her and that should improve her depth some. For a dry doe she is fairly thin. Was she fresh last year? Might want to have a fecal done and make sure she is not wormy. She is fairly short bodied and doesn't appear to have a lot of natural width.
> 
> Did your friends buy her at the Colorama Sale? That or the Spotlight Sale is the only place I can see a goat selling for that much, most breeders don't offer their goats that high. If she was in either of those sales that means she was selected by a committee from a number of different applicants


Her udder appears to small to be freshened at any time. I don't think she was fed any type of feed and was only free ranged. I know Alicia (previous owner) does worm, though, but I'm going to start worming next go around to be sure I don't stress her body and get her on our schedule.

They aren't really my "friends" so to speak. We'd help each other if asked, but otherwise don't consider ourselves social buddies. Alicia might have gotten her from an auction, although I can't be sure. If so its within 2-3 hours of Southwest GA, because she normally wouldn't travel too too far unless she was going for a specific animal, like a new Bulldog or to buy from a specific breeder. She'd have been an excellent LaMancha breeder and shower, but she just lost interest.


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## Aslea

canyontrailgoats said:


> I hope she's fertile and capable of breeding, it's suspicious how she never got pregnant :/ .


I know she never bred her to any of her own males, because they were all heavy Boer males, with 25% progeny/dam success rate in both times she bred her herd. She did buy a LaMancha buckling at one point, but he died before the age of 1. He was just too sensitive in genetics for her small pasture, and got sick about 5 times, although Amelia hasn't been sick once since she got her. I'd know if she brought something into our yard since my other doe is very sensitive to getting sick easy. Thankfully they are the only two we have.


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## Aslea

goathiker said:


> I have the perfect buck for her. He will add depth to the kids while retaining the other good qualities. Plus he increases teat size on welded on udders.


He's a good looking boy! The kids from him would make me some money! Although I think yall are a tad too far away for a breeding (Leesburg GA) and I don't have an AI kit or any good vets to do such for me! Sucks not having a good goat vet within 100 miles.

If you know anyone in the state of Georgia or Florida, though, I'd be happy to travel in that range.  Maybe someone who shipped in one of his sons? I'll be getting my license soon and will be able to take my own girls to the stud and to shows from now on


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## FarmerInaDress

Like I said, she is a very pretty dry doe, but $3000 dollars is crazy high to pay. For perspective, I just bought a buckling from a multiple time ADGA national champion breeder that charges top dollar. The dam was two years ago reserve grand champion/reserve best udder, and this year the first place four year old. The sire is the son of the doe that beat the dam at nationals to take grand champion. 

I paid no more than half of what your friend paid for that doe on this buck, shipping included. If she really did pay that much for her, which honestly I doubt a bit, I would want to be very sure that she in fact can be bred. She is so pretty and looks very sweet, I just don't want you to get bit in the butt, because something isn't adding up. 

Maybe they were charged extra because of here driving skills


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## Aslea

FarmerInaDress said:


> Like I said, she is a very pretty dry doe, but $3000 dollars is crazy high to pay. For perspective, I just bought a buckling from a multiple time ADGA national champion breeder that charges top dollar. The dam was two years ago reserve grand champion/reserve best udder, and this year the first place four year old. The sire is the son of the doe that beat the dam at nationals to take grand champion.
> 
> I paid no more than half of what your friend paid for that doe on this buck, shipping included. If she really did pay that much for her, which honestly I doubt a bit, I would want to be very sure that she in fact can be bred. She is so pretty and looks very sweet, I just don't want you to get bit in the butt, because something isn't adding up.
> 
> Maybe they were charged extra because of here driving skills


Well at least if she is infertile we didn't pay too heavily. She was cheaper than my milk quality only doe (which is really demeaning, lol). Bambi was $250, and is a snobby, antisocial little loudmouth only worth it for her milk. She earns her keep, though, but she can't drive XD

And trust me, I doubt it heavily also, but Alicia is just that gullible. She bought two spotted Boer bucks for about $1000 or so a piece along with about 20 boer does to start breeding spotted babies. She lost half her does and only had 4 surviving kids. I think she bred again with the same result, hoping maybe she'd have some luck. She didn't try again.

I think she needs to keep to American Bulldogs, now THAT is her big money!


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## FarmerInaDress

Aslea said:


> Well at least if she is infertile we didn't pay too heavily. She was cheaper than my milk quality only doe (which is really demeaning, lol). Bambi was $250, and is a snobby, antisocial little loudmouth only worth it for her milk. She earns her keep, though, but she can't drive XD
> 
> And trust me, I doubt it heavily also, but Alicia is just that gullible. She bought two spotted Boer bucks for about $1000 or so a piece along with about 20 boer does to start breeding spotted babies. She lost half her does and only had 4 surviving kids. I think she bred again with the same result, hoping maybe she'd have some luck. She didn't try again.
> 
> I think she needs to keep to American Bulldogs, now THAT is her big money!


You did indeed get a great price for her and she looks absolutely gorgeous. It sounds like your friend just didn't know. Keep us updated on how she does for you. Do you have any plans on who you want to breed her to this year?


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## Aslea

I would like to breed her to a black male. I love the look of a solid black goat for some reason. There are 4 in the GA/FL area which is my range. I can't keep any kids, so I hope to make good show/milk quality to sell for a good profit. Trust me, I'd keep em if I could, and love em, but just don't have the room  so I gotta get something out of it!

I just hope the bucklings will reserve or sell quicker than normal, or they will have to be banded this time. We cut it close with our last buckling, he almost bred his mom and sister just before we sold him!


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## Aslea

I can't wait to see her pedigree so I know what to expect, udder wise. Maybe she has some good show lines to help out as well!!!


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## goathiker

Perhaps this will help? http://www.georgiagoat.com/members.html


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## Aslea

goathiker said:


> Perhaps this will help? http://www.georgiagoat.com/members.html


I have that page favored! Lol, I looked through and found 2 good looking black sires and a black with a belted sire as well. All about 3 or 4 hours away, but I'm going to be willing this year unlike the last 4.


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## ptgoats45

Do you know how long ago it was that they got her? If you have a guesstimate of when they got her I can try to find the animals that were sold in those years' Colorama and Spotlight Sales. The Colorama Sale is held at the end of the National show ( wherever Nationals is that year) and the Spotlight Sale is held at the end of convention which also changes location every year.


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## Aslea

ptgoats45 said:


> Do you know how long ago it was that they got her? If you have a guesstimate of when they got her I can try to find the animals that were sold in those years' Colorama and Spotlight Sales. The Colorama Sale is held at the end of the National show ( wherever Nationals is that year) and the Spotlight Sale is held at the end of convention which also changes location every year.


It seems around November 2012. She was around a year at the time.


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## Aslea

Her Pedigree!

Montage Kua Cajeta 

Sire: Kastdemur's Up & Atom - *B LA2009
Dam: Heart Mt Celesta - AI 4*M AR2012 LA2011

Siresire: Dagron Taipei's Toronto - ++B AR2006 ST2008 LA2007,2004
Siredam: GCH Kastdemur's Make7UpYours - 3*M AR2006 ST2010 LA2010,2009,2008

Damsire: Heart MT Dasani New Era - +*B AR 2011
Damdam: SGHC Heart-Mt. -Carter-Kids Cholena - 3*M AR2009 LA2009


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Don't know Heart-Mt lines well, but I like her sire a lot!


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## LamanchaAcres

Heart mt is here in CA. Very nice animals that can compete well with redwood hills. Owners are acually adga judges. 


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## Aslea

I still couldn't get her legs right! I'll get better in a few minutes!!

She still looks a whole lot better than she did, less rugged! You can see her true conformation now, too.


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## canyontrailgoats

She's very pretty, I love the beard!  . With a little extra weight, she'll be gorgeous.


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## Aslea

Full Profile Picture


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## goathiker

Did you get her from the Peevy's in Dracula? I don't think she is the spotlight sale doe, her mother is.


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## goathiker

Her birthday is listed as 02-26-12 So she's a little over 2 years old.


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## FarmerInaDress

Very nice pictures. She is a beauty. It sounds like you got her for a steal!

Please keep us updated after she freshens. I would love to see the udder on this gal.


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## Aslea

goathiker said:


> Did you get her from the Peevy's in Dracula? I don't think she is the spotlight sale doe, her mother is.


Her previous owner bought her from Peevy I believe. Peevy bred her. And its Dacula, btw


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## Aslea

When I first saw a glimpse of her in 2012 I saw a little star. I didn't even know how good of a goat she would be, and saw her on my bus about 100 feet away. 

When I saw her last year up close for the first time I could tell she would be a good milker. I had no idea, though, how good of a pedigreed goat she'd be. I never in my dreams thought of owning her, but didn't hesitate at all when asked if I wanted the chance. Maybe she'll be the show animal I was looking for. Her and my horse, Envy, my future Barrel Racer


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## Aslea

canyontrailgoats said:


> She's very pretty, I love the beard!  . With a little extra weight, she'll be gorgeous.


Lol, I love the beard too! My mom is trying to figure out a pattern and is going to make a bow for it when I braid it again. I'm thinking yellow something since her collar is yellow. Or red.


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## Aslea

FarmerInaDress said:


> Very nice pictures. She is a beauty. It sounds like you got her for a steal!
> 
> Please keep us updated after she freshens. I would love to see the udder on this gal.


Yep! And I will! I just don't know which buck to breed her, too <3


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## canyontrailgoats

I think yellow would look very pretty with her black fur


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## Goat_in_Himmel

Wow, I don't know anything about LaManchas, but she looks like she has the attitude for showing; a regal, leggy, runway model whose good lines are perhaps a little stark. I think you got an awesome deal in her even if you don't end up showing.


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## SugarBush Farms

I found some Kastdemur's Up & Atom daughters and I have one of his granddaughters (he is her dam's sire)

Up & Atom's Dam:

















Here are the daughters I found:
CH AUTUMN-ACRES STRAIT'S NEXUS EEEE-91

















AUTUMN-ACRES VIZZON'S VISTA


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## SugarBush Farms

Pros:
Dairy (sharp shoulders, thin thighs, flat bones, long neck) 
Love the smoothness in blending through her shoulders
Looks good through her front end (balanced and blended)
Could probably see some more length through her, but she's pretty good for length.
Uphill
Hock angle seems good
Looks good through her pasterns

Cons: 
Steep through her rump
Looks like she's a bit splay toed and that she toes out in the rear. 
Might toe out in the front (her front feet are too close together the way she's set up)
Needs some depth, but that should improve with some added weight and age. 
Personally, I'd also like to see her wider across her rump

I'd love to see a picture of her in milk when she freshens, overall she's a nice doe.


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## Aslea

SugarBush Farms said:


> Pros:
> Dairy (sharp shoulders, thin thighs, flat bones, long neck)
> Love the smoothness in blending through her shoulders
> Looks good through her front end (balanced and blended)
> Could probably see some more length through her, but she's pretty good for length.
> Uphill
> Hock angle seems good
> Looks good through her pasterns
> 
> Cons:
> Steep through her rump
> Looks like she's a bit splay toed and that she toes out in the rear.
> Might toe out in the front (her front feet are too close together the way she's set up)
> Needs some depth, but that should improve with some added weight and age.
> Personally, I'd also like to see her wider across her rump
> 
> I'd love to see a picture of her in milk when she freshens, overall she's a nice doe.


She's gaining weight by the day! I was told her previous owners might have stopped feeding her when her goats went up for sale. Thanks for the critique! It's what I was looking for!


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## DancingHoovesFarm

Btw. When you pose her you need to put her front feet a hair further apart and her hind legs a little closer together. A helpful way to tell if they are too far apart is look at her hooves from the rear and see if they are leaning. If they are her legs are too far apart. They should be almost strait up and down.  

She is a very pretty doe but I agree with the OP that she is a little steep in the rump. With her genetics, bred to the right buck her babies should be AWSOME.




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