# Critique my doe.



## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Merry Oaks Sunflower. She is a two year old FF and we are planning to show her so I wondered what your thoughts were. Thanks, Meg


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

Pros:
Good length of body
Long lean dairy neck
Long rump
Nice angulation in rear legs
Straight front legs
Neck blends well into what brisket she has
Thurls look good
Correct bite

Cons:
Neck could blend better into the withers
Could use more brisket
Chest floor could blend better into the girth
Steep rump
Could stand more uphill
Could use a bit more depth

I feel like I'm forgetting stuff :roll: :lol:

For her udder:
Good fore attachments
Nice sized teats
Teat placement isn't too bad
Could use more capacity

I'd like to see a better picture of her udder to see rear attachments, and front and back shots to judge width through the hips, pins, etc.


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## robin4 (Oct 12, 2013)

Emzi00 said:


> Pros:
> Good length of body
> Long lean dairy neck
> Long rump
> ...


 Wow!! I need you for next year when my daughter start showing our goats. 
I love this forum!!!!!!!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

This doe is fairly long, has tall legs, and nice rear leg angulation. She stands strongly on her legs, and has nice body capacity. Her withers are sharp, but I would like to see much better blending from her neck to her withers. Her neck is long and looks like it blends nicely into her chest, but more brisket extension would be nice. Her rump is long, but I would like to see it more level. I would like to see her topline a bit more level, but in the showring you can pinch down her loin to make it appear level. I would like to see her shoulders a bit tighter and stronger pasterns as well. She could use more femininity. Her bight looks nice and she has a pretty head, which is a plus. I would like to see her chest floor blend into her girth area, bit it's not too bad. She is fairly uphill and would look more so if her neck blended better into her withers.
Her udder has nice teat placement and size. I would like to see better rear attatchments and more capacity, though. Fore udder attatchments and blending look good. Medial looks good. Her udder is a bit lopsided, but not unusual for FF.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I'll just add that 

Cons:
Her withers are way to sharp
She is definitely lacking depth and capacity
Her neck need to blend more smoothly into her withers
Her udder is a bit lopsided, looks like
She could blend a little better from the chest floor into the heart girth

Pros:
Her pasterns are pretty good, but they could be a little stronger
Lots of dairy character
Feminine head
Nice long bone pattern throughout

Sorry to add so many cons, I'm not trying to sound harsh, just tellin' it like I see it.  Hope you don't mind.
She reminds me a lot of one of our does.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I wouldn't say her withers are too sharp.. With some extra weight (she looks too thin) and a better blended neck, they would look more like the typical withers of a champion dairy goat, IMO.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Yes, you're probably right. I noticed she was to, but I didn't really think how having more weight would change her withers. 
I will say our doe that look a lot like this one- her withers are still really pointy even when she's a good weight.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm just thinking maybe if she had more weight, you wouldn't see all the 'lumps and bumps' of the spine. But if you just imagine her neck being better blended, her withers wouldn't looks so pointy.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone. This is really helpful. Texaslass i don't mind at all.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

We don't have time to try to get her to put more weight on before the show which is the 25th but i started her on calf manna.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I'll get more pics before i milk her tomorrow.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Let us know how she does at the show!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> Let us know how she does at the show!


 I will!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Here are some more pics, let me know if i need to get better ones.

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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Her legs are actually too sickle for my taste honestly, but part of that is her thurls are too far back. She's hard over the top and while placing her legs, just loin her and that'll make her rump pop right up. She's a good family milker. Nice teats, promise for the future. You can tell you don't push this girl, so you'll have years left on her. Her udder looks as if she's drying off, and I can't wait to see the changes as she matures and grows into herself.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Her hips and pins are both a little too wide, but not too bad.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I didn't know hips and pins could be too wide?


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Scottyhorse said:


> I didn't know hips and pins could be too wide?


Same here... Width is a good thing! I love seeing width throughout! And lots of it! Less kidding problems too


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

:shrug: I'm just *trying* to do as Lacie does.  I'm not entirely certain her pins are too wide, but I'm pretty sure they are. Idk if that's really bad or not, but they do look a little too wide to me. :shrug:
Now, I do still say her hips are a *little* too wide. 
Still learning here, so bear that in mind.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Same here... Width is a good thing! I love seeing width throughout! And lots of it! Less kidding problems too


I agree!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Thank you everyone. I will let you all know how she does.
Meg


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Texaslass said:


> Her hips and pins are both a little too wide, but not too bad.


More width the better honestly.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Lacie said one of my goats was too wide on the hips, and she was about the same as this goat..


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Texaslass said:


> Lacie said one of my goats was too wide on the hips, and she was about the same as this goat..


Odd...wonder if she was referring to fat covering, or the way she carries (more "beef" like)? This I have heard of. Or possibly the goat was unbalanced and the width was hard to carry on the feet and legs.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I don't really know, honestly. She was a bit too thin at the time, so I don't think it could be fat. And she's pretty "dairy" too, so probably not....
I can't link on this device, but you can see the thread on here if you search-it's called "judging time", if you want to see it.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I think she meant the hips are too wide in correlation to her pins. 

"Hips are a bit too wide
Pins are a bit too narrow"


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

That makes sense. 
Though I don't quite see why hips wouldn't be able to be too wide, just the same as too narrow..:shrug: I mean, couldn't it go both ways? Though too wide would be less common, I would think.
Just wondering here.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

You want wide hips and pins to allow for an easier birth, but I'm sure a goat could be too wide and be out of proportion, like if the hips are wide but they are very narrow based which would be pretty odd. 

The main thing I see on this doe is in the first pic her back legs are set up too far back and too wide which I think is part of what makes them look wonky. When you set her up you want to be able to draw a line down through the pins that will run right through her hock and straight down her cannon bone. She is also a little long in the pastern which can make them seem weak, a shot of Bo-Se would really help to keep her pasterns stronger. She does need a smoother topline and pinching her back in the show won't help her in the end, it will make her set up good but as soon as she walks her back will go right back up and the judge will notice. She is a nice doe and does have a good udder, I think with some added weight it would help make her topline not look so bumpy. Alpine classes are typically pretty big so even placing in the middle of the class is good 

Good luck at your show!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Wide hip and pins are just pelvic width. Yes, this can be out of proportion to the rest of the goat however that is usually not the case. You want pins wider set than hooks to give a wedge like shape.... all part of the overall widening as the animal goes back. From a general structure stand point, I don't think this doe is too wide or out of proportion. I love a wide set doe!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks for the advice. We are headed to the show!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Good luck!!!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Okay, I am back from the show. We had a great time. 
Our does did not do so well: Milking yearlings- 5 does total: 4th and 5th 
2 year olds- total 8 does: 8th place.(sunflower). 3 year olds- total 3 does: 3rd place. Udder- total 11 does: 8th, 10th and 11th. After 3 years of showing I am very used to standing in dead last! LOL. But hey, we had fun!! We showed Alpines for other breeders and Nigerians for End-o-way farm. Every time we show and I am reminded of the fact that "Goats are great!" 
And yes the judge did say our does are too skinny and we talked to the farm where we got our does and they said it would be good to up their grain ration. Our does were bred to a buck from Tennessee who's dam won grand champion so we hope for some competitive kids next year. Thanks everyone for the advice and your opinions.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

You're welcome! I'm glad you had a good time.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

You are very welcome  Glad you had a great time! Good plan breeding to a nice buck, the kids should place better next year!


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## Pats_Perfect_Boer_Goats (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm used to placing last too!  I am glad you had a good time; can't wait to see the babies next year!

Patrick


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Sweet William is the buck's name, he is really pretty so i will definitely post pics when the kids are born. Probably in about March. He is young but we hope he puts some good lines and color into our herd.


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