# Show Mom Reaching Out for Help



## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

Hello All,

I'm a show mom from AZ; my daughter has been showing in our county fair for the past 3 years, sadly this is her last year as she's a senior. She's been successful with market poultry and swine but seeing as this was her last year she wanted to add something new....a goat 
She/We are completely new to raising goats and sadly aren't getting much help when we've reached out to others locally. As with the swine and chickens we have found no one is really to share their knowledge and they keep their tips close to the hip in hopes their kids win the coveted belt, she's not about that. (She just doesn't want that dreaded white ribbon, lol). 

The goat has already made weight - as of two weeks ago he weighed in at 90 lbs. She purchased him September 9th - I think he was born in May. Should a 8 month old Boer wither weigh more or less at this age? She feeds him Moorman's Show Tec Goat Feed with the Moorman's supplement at 7 in the morning and 7 in the evening. She has his feeder up on the fencing so he has to stretch to eat. 

We are down to the last 32 days before fair and are still struggling with getting him to stand properly. A big part of that is we aren't certain if she's positioning him right. I've included a photo to show you all and would really appreciate it if you could offer up some pointers on how to be stretch him to show off his best attributes.

Also, he is a stubborn old goat...we have asked everyone and anyone for help on how to get him to walk. His favorite thing to do is "dive" (I've included a photo of him "diving") when she's walking him. By diving I mean he goes down on his two front legs and then rolls over on his back. She's tried choke chains, collars, leads in leather, plastic and chain form. Any tips on getting him to walk better would not fall on deaf ears, I assure you. Her adivser did suggested she tie him to the back of my truck and drag him along. Needles to say we didn't do that as I'm afraid he would hang himself while diving.

Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. No comments are too silly, or as I said, will fall on deaf ears. Thanks in advance. Happy Goating


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh what a not! I’m sorry your not getting any help locally  we kinda ran into the same issue but it wasn’t my kids last year so we can still learn. 
Ok keep in mind we have one market wether under our belt! For the set up/ bracing we were having the same issue. Finally someone took pity on us and showed us a trick! With her right hand grab the wethers ear, at the base of the head, don’t jerk or wrench on it or anything. With the left hand grab his jaw bone and with both hands lift. If this is making absolutely no sense let me know and I’ll try and get a picture of my son doing it to a goat for you. Anyways once you get that head up then either how she is standing have that leg pushing against him or if the judge is behind prop his front feet on her feet and use both knees to push back. It was more easy for my son with the two knees pushing then the one leg like your daughter is doing but he is also smaller and weaker lol 
For the diving keep the head up super high! As she walks him and if he does get down like that or tries to you or someone else pull his tail up. It’s not going to feel good and he will start to connect the dots that when he throws a fit his tail is going to be pulled. Someone might have better tricks but that worked with the doe that was trying to pull that. 
I had made a new topic when we were first starting our adventure and there’s some pretty good tips. I’ll find it and bump it up so you can read threw it. It’s going to be something along the lines of “hit me with your best advise” or something like that.......it’s been awhile lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Welcome. 

Goat breeders who show are very competitive and won't give advice that may help anyone. They are out to win. It is a sad world. 

Is it so hard to win top place with some of the goats outs there. But don't get discouraged. 
It also depends on the judge.

Is there any shows that you can go to just to watch how they do things and what the competition shows out there, helps.

Wish I knew more about showing wethers but, I never have shown a wether.
Hopefully someone else can chime in soon for that.
What does the county fair rules state for this?
Do you have the booklet?

Feed: I am not sure with wethers, again, I hope someone else can help.

Making him stretch to eat is good. It helps build his rear end, climbing up.

This may help with walking and the goat falling going down part. 





Showmanship:





Don't drag him with a truck, that is not humane and will make him not trust you and he can get hurt. Very bad idea.

You can have a goat who is calm walk in front of him, so he is more comfortable about following. 
If possible.

Go to a area he can browse on things. Make it a fun time.

I do the tying up route at first, supervised, so he gets use to pulling and not winning. 
Just for a little while each time each day or on and off throughout the day.
Then, when he is comfortable with that. 
Try going for a walk. Put tension on the rope, and when he gives in with 1 step, give him a small treat and praise him. He may not want the treat at first though. Repeat. 
Just work with him for 15 minutes and on a good note. Eventually, he will be comfortable with it and will do more and more steps. At first kinda allow him to go where he wants to. 
As he is comfortable with that, go where you want to go. They are barn sour like horses and will go in the direction to the barn or pasture easier. 
They resist more going away from the barn, goats or pasture.


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh what a not! I'm sorry your not getting any help locally  we kinda ran into the same issue but it wasn't my kids last year so we can still learn.
> Ok keep in mind we have one market wether under our belt! For the set up/ bracing we were having the same issue. Finally someone took pity on us and showed us a trick! With her right hand grab the wethers ear, at the base of the head, don't jerk or wrench on it or anything. With the left hand grab his jaw bone and with both hands lift. If this is making absolutely no sense let me know and I'll try and get a picture of my son doing it to a goat for you. Anyways once you get that head up then either how she is standing have that leg pushing against him or if the judge is behind prop his front feet on her feet and use both knees to push back. It was more easy for my son with the two knees pushing then the one leg like your daughter is doing but he is also smaller and weaker lol
> For the diving keep the head up super high! As she walks him and if he does get down like that or tries to you or someone else pull his tail up. It's not going to feel good and he will start to connect the dots that when he throws a fit his tail is going to be pulled. Someone might have better tricks but that worked with the doe that was trying to pull that.
> I had made a new topic when we were first starting our adventure and there's some pretty good tips. I'll find it and bump it up so you can read threw it. It's going to be something along the lines of "hit me with your best advise" or something like that.......it's been awhile lol


Thanks for the advice...If it's not too much trouble a picture of your son bracing his goat would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks again!!!


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Goat breeders who show are very competitive and won't give advice that may help anyone. They are out to win. It is a sad world.
> 
> ...


That was some great advice. Thanks! The second video you posted was filled with a lot of information that I will pass along to my daughter.

As for our fair book, there's not much there...other than goats have to be purebred, under one year of age, must be de-horned and sheared with no more than 3/8 of hair growth (clipping's gonna be fun) and spurs can not exceed 2 inches above the skull. Weight limit is a minimum of 60 pounds and the goats must have been owned a minimum of 100 days and be tagged.

According to the second video withers should be around 90 pounds so I think we are good on the weight.

Thanks again for the advice. Fair is the second week of March so hopefully we can take this new knowledge and work some magic. LOL!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good luck, glad I helped some. 

Let me know how the goat walking goes and then the show.


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## LaManchamaniac (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm not sure where you are located but there are going to be a lot of great helpful ppl at this event.


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

LaManchamaniac said:


> I'm not sure where you are located but there are going to be a lot of great helpful ppl at this event.


That sounds like it would be filled with a lot of great info. Our fair will have already passed but maybe we will go just to go...thanks!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Do you have a meat goat 4-H in your area? You could call your university Extension office and they could possibly lead you in the right direction. We show dairy goats in 4-H. Yes, SOME farms are stingy with help and advice, but we've found others who are WONDERFUL for giving us show tips and breeding tips and feeding tips and anything else we need. Keep searching, if I can find kind, helpful farmers in Maine - a State known for their reservedness and their disdain for "outsiders" - then I'm positive you can find some nice folk in your area!


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh what a not! I'm sorry your not getting any help locally  we kinda ran into the same issue but it wasn't my kids last year so we can still learn.
> Ok keep in mind we have one market wether under our belt! For the set up/ bracing we were having the same issue. Finally someone took pity on us and showed us a trick! With her right hand grab the wethers ear, at the base of the head, don't jerk or wrench on it or anything. With the left hand grab his jaw bone and with both hands lift. If this is making absolutely no sense let me know and I'll try and get a picture of my son doing it to a goat for you. Anyways once you get that head up then either how she is standing have that leg pushing against him or if the judge is behind prop his front feet on her feet and use both knees to push back. It was more easy for my son with the two knees pushing then the one leg like your daughter is doing but he is also smaller and weaker lol
> For the diving keep the head up super high! As she walks him and if he does get down like that or tries to you or someone else pull his tail up. It's not going to feel good and he will start to connect the dots that when he throws a fit his tail is going to be pulled. Someone might have better tricks but that worked with the doe that was trying to pull that.
> I had made a new topic when we were first starting our adventure and there's some pretty good tips. I'll find it and bump it up so you can read threw it. It's going to be something along the lines of "hit me with your best advise" or something like that.......it's been awhile lol


I was wondering how far out from showing did your son clip his goat? There are 31 days left before weigh in and my daughter is getting worried about messing up. We want to give him enough time to grow back just in case she does nick him once or twice. Any suggestions?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Is his tuck and roll thing a stubborn act or is he responding to the collar shutting off his air to the lungs and the blood flow to his brain, making him weak and passing out? Mine will decide to fight the collar sometimes and if the collar slips down a little, they "pass out", sort of what your guy looks like. Once I release the pressure on the collar, the blood and oxygen flows again and they stand right back up. They even do this while standing on the picket line waiting to be milked.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I can't help at all, so this is just to tell you I'm so sorry your local people are being so selfish.

You would think they would want people to do well at shows _IF THEY HAVE WORTHY GOATS_ because that will raise the status and profile of goats. If they can only win by proprietary tricks of the trade, and not because they have the best goats, they aren't helping their industry as a whole. I'm so, so, sorry.

I think you have come to the right place for help. These are amazing people. Welcome to both you and your daughter.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@HoosierShadow can you help at all?


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Is his tuck and roll thing a stubborn act or is he responding to the collar shutting off his air to the lungs and the blood flow to his brain, making him weak and passing out? Mine will decide to fight the collar sometimes and if the collar slips down a little, they "pass out", sort of what your guy looks like. Once I release the pressure on the collar, the blood and oxygen flows again and they stand right back up. They even do this while standing on the picket line waiting to be milked.


I believe it's because he's stubborn...we have tried all sorts of collars, choke chains and if my daughter isn't diligent with keeping his head held high he will take a dive just cause he can. Silly o'l goat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Have you tried tying him up for a little while, on and off throughout the day supervised??


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

I cant offer anything more unfortunately. I do know when we showed pigs, we changed them to a high protein "show feed" and we did that for around 30 days prior to showing. I also know that the cleanest, water you can and as much of it as they like is best. Also there are videos on proper trimming and such for their hooves. 

My Clyde tries the falling down stuff but from research here and such its a matter of getting used to being led.

Either way, that's a beautiful goat, do you have just the one or another for it to play with?


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Have you tried tying him up for a little while, on and off throughout the day supervised??


She has tied him up on several occasions but it didn't seem to really phase him much.

Update: He's walking! Yay!! I came across a feed here on The Goat Spot, someone suggested getting another goat to walk with him but if you didn't have another goat a dog would work just as well. I think the purpose of the dog was to spook him into walking but since our dog isn't big and scary it just became a companion and he is now walking thanks to our Yorkie. Only problem now is he won't walk without the dog present. Sheesh this goat. LOL!


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

MadCatX said:


> I cant offer anything more unfortunately. I do know when we showed pigs, we changed them to a high protein "show feed" and we did that for around 30 days prior to showing. I also know that the cleanest, water you can and as much of it as they like is best. Also there are videos on proper trimming and such for their hooves.
> 
> My Clyde tries the falling down stuff but from research here and such its a matter of getting used to being led.
> 
> Either way, that's a beautiful goat, do you have just the one or another for it to play with?


Good afternoon! My daughter has just the one goat, she also has a market swine and market poultry she is caring for and will be showing at fair. It would have been nice to have gotten another goat to keep it company but didn't give that topic much thought at the time of purchase.

We have been watching You Tube videos so we kind of know a little on how to trim the hooves but for some reason I think they probably should be trimmed down further but we are a bit apprehensive about cutting too much because we don't want to make him lame or trim something that maybe we shouldn't be trimming.

Thanks for your comments...It's always nice to see that someone has read my thread.


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## Claudia Harper (Jan 31, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I can't help at all, so this is just to tell you I'm so sorry your local people are being so selfish.
> 
> You would think they would want people to do well at shows _IF THEY HAVE WORTHY GOATS_ because that will raise the status and profile of goats. If they can only win by proprietary tricks of the trade, and not because they have the best goats, they aren't helping their industry as a whole. I'm so, so, sorry.
> 
> I think you have come to the right place for help. These are amazing people. Welcome to both you and your daughter.


My sentiments exactly! And thank you for your warm welcome


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

He is quite stubborn. 

Do you have any pics of his hooves?


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Seems like the dairy goat kids are a lot more welcoming. Our fairs is just one big family, we all love each other


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Claudia Harper said:


> Good afternoon! My daughter has just the one goat, she also has a market swine and market poultry she is caring for and will be showing at fair. It would have been nice to have gotten another goat to keep it company but didn't give that topic much thought at the time of purchase.
> 
> We have been watching You Tube videos so we kind of know a little on how to trim the hooves but for some reason I think they probably should be trimmed down further but we are a bit apprehensive about cutting too much because we don't want to make him lame or trim something that maybe we shouldn't be trimming.
> 
> Thanks for your comments...It's always nice to see that someone has read my thread.


NP at all, I'm new to it as well. I do know they are herd animals and prefer a friend, sounds like you got some animals around it can socialize with. I would suggest if you got a chance a female or wether to let it play with


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Very interesting tactics, going to have to keep some of these in mind for someday.


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