# new to milking



## kimmiesuebruno (Mar 28, 2015)

Hi All!! I'm new to this forum, but am looking for advice.

I have a 1 yr old lamancha doe and her bf a lamancha/nubian cross buck..well she just had her 1 kids!! 2 new babies. I have so many questions. We want to milk her, but not sure when to start (how long to give the babies to drink colostrum) and I don't want to bottle feed. Is it possible to milk her and have the babies nurse? 

We are considering selling the buckling and keeping the doeling. if we raise the doeling and breed her to an outside buck, can her daddy then mate with her babies (i know i know 2-3 years down the road) or is it best to just not do any mixing of bloodlines at all. And if we decide to keep the buckling..can he be bred to any doeling his sister might have (his nieces)?

One last thing...by any small miracle does anyone know someone in central/south Oklahoma who will disbud the kids?

TIA!
kim


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

First, welcome to TGS!
For starters they should get colostrum for the first 48 hours of life. 
After that there can be traces of it for several days.


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## grindylo (May 15, 2014)

Hi and welcome! I'm still a beginner but this awesome forum has gotten me through my first year of goats!
Good question about breeding within the bloodline. I wouldn't do bro+sis or parent+kid, but I have considered slightly more distant pairings like you described. The thing with breeding close relatives is that it accentuates both good genes and bad genes. Some breeders can have great results if they have goats with immaculate gene pools. Other times you could get a bad mix.
I have two yearling does who are cousins and just bought two unrelated bucklings. The plan is to breed them with as much diversity as I can with those four and then bring in some new blood.

Maybe see if a vet near you knows a farmer or another vet that does goats.. Or check with a feed store for the same.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

This is how I do it, and it has worked beautifully:
I allow the babies to nurse freely for the first week. After that, I start taping off the teats for a few hours (3-4) at specific times of the day. Morning from 9:00am til noon, and afternoon, from 4pm til 8pm. I do NOT milk out completely, and make sure to leave a bit of milk for the kids. Babies have the doe the rest of the time. At one month of age (4 weeks), I tape the doe's teats for 12 hours, at 9:00pm, and milk her out at 9:00am the next morning, making sure to leave a bit in the udder for the kids, then leave her for the rest of the day for the kids to nurse. 
At 2 months of age, I milk her out COMPLETELY each morning, and leave her for the kids for the rest of the day...
At 3 months, the babies should be eating hay, grains, and drinking water, so the doe is taped off until they are 100% weaned. 
I hope this helps.


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## kimmiesuebruno (Mar 28, 2015)

How do u know when she is milked out completely? Will her teats just be empty?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Her teats will be mostly empty and her udder will feel soft and flaccid. You will never be able to completely milk her out, because she will be making milk even while you are milking!

Depending on the doe, you can let the kids feed and still have milk. I keep the kids with my does and still have to milk them at least once a day. I know a lot of people who separate the kids either all day or all night and then milk the doe. Once she has been milked, they turn the kids back out with her. Most people seem to start separating the kids between 2-4 weeks of age. I don't drink the milk from my does until they have been fresh for 2 weeks minimum, because there always seems to be a trace of colostrum until then and it tastes horrible. It looks like eggnog, but sure doen't taste like it! lol

Do you have the buck separated from the doe? If not, he will rebreed her right off which will drag her health way down. Once a year kidding for dairy goats is best. He will also breed his daughter as soon as she starts coming in heat later this summer. (if you are in the Northern Hemisphere that is) 

Breeding gramps/gramma to his/her grandaughters/grandsons or uncles/aunts to their neices/nephews is done frequently however.......make sure there are no serious genetic issues or the flaw will be increased in the offspring. If you don't know what to look for, do you have an experienced goat person who can look at your goats and help you judge your goats? When you breed closely related goats to each other, you have to go in with the mindset that you will cull (remove from the breeding pool) any kids born with serious defects.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I wait till babies are 2 weeks old, then seperate them from mom at night. I milk mom in the morning and then have them with kids all day. I do this till weaned (apx 8-12 weeks of age)


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## AncientBlue (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm a beginner too. I've been pretty successful with the taping method. I probably should be 100% taping until the kids fully wean at this point. The kids are 5 month and still want to nurse. I tape for 12 hours and milk out completely.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm also going to be a beginner, hopefully within the next week she should be kidding. yay! I plan on doing the separate at night routine after two weeks. But my question is, does anyone also milk before that to freeze it? Is it ok to milk some of the colostrum to freeze or should the kids get all of it? When do people save colostrum...when she just has a single and too much milk or? I'm sure my doe will be having twins if not triplets, so probably not the best idea then?

I plan on pulling any kids over twins, just because I didn't have much luck with the does raising three.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I milk my does out 12 hours after they kid. I take the colostrum and freeze it or feed it to the dogs. They get such a huge udder that I have to milk them or they will be in a lot of pain. A doe will produce a ton of colostrum, more than the kids will actually use. They can only absorb the antibodies for the first 24 hours. While the colostrum is rich with protein and fat, it's the antibodies it contains that is so crucial to their growth. They really don't need it after the initial 24 hours, or even after they get one good belly full.

I've had does that get so full of colostrum before they kid that I have to milk them before they deliver, freeze it and then bottle the kids with it when they are born.


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## kimmiesuebruno (Mar 28, 2015)

Here's what im doing...im milking every 12 hours and the kids have full access to her. I've milked her 5 times thus far (she kidded on Thursday evening) and I still have gotten a half gallon total...im feeling discouraged, I thought lamanchas were supposed to give 1-2 gallons daily. Am I getting so little cause im sharing with the kids or maybe just stopping too soon? I don't milk her out or bump her bags to get her to release more. I just do a once round until I can't get anymore. Unfortunately I don't know anyone in my area that raises or milks goats so no one to ask here.. 

My plan is to continue as I have been (hoping for more milk) then at 2 weeks seperate kids at night and milk out in the morn; possibly a light evening milk? I just don't want to over milk her. 

On a side note she doesn't like being milked..she settles down and will eat while I milk her right side but fidits and stomps the whole time on the left (won't settle and eat). Could this be because the kids usually nurse on that side? 

Oh! Yes my buck is separated from Doe and kids.

Im also freezing her milk to use for soap at a later date


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

So she is not even a week fresh yet? Is she a first freshener?
Either way, relax. Does continue to go up in production for over 2 months after kidding. They don't produce a ton right after kidding, because their bodies KNOW their babies can't drink all that. They make what the kids need... 
That said. Continue milking her regularly. Do NOT over milk her. You are 100% correct on that. I had a friend who had a doe that was milking 2+ gallons a day, and her greed for more made her milk the doe 4x a day, forcing the doe to produce more than her 120lb body could handle. She ended up milking her to death. Literally. The does body shut down due to Hypocalcemia, and she died. 
If the kids are only a week old, I would not tape her just yet. Feel her udder, and see if it's full, then empty her out as needed. The kids should be drinking all she is making, which will establish a good, steady milk production. Start taping her for a few hours at 2 weeks post freshening, then let the kids have her for the rest of the day. Do this at the same time every day. Her production SHOULD steadily be going up and she should peak at max production 2-3 months post kidding. 
At 4 weeks, start taping her at night, and milk her out in the morning, after 12 hours have passed. Then leave her for the kids for the day. Again, the kids suckling will help establish good production. 
Keep taping her at night and milking her out in the morning every day, until the kids turn 3 months old, then wean them. 
If she's a good Dairy Goat, she should have a nice, steady production by then.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh, and if she is a first freshener, she will take time to get used to the stand. One of mine took almost 2 months, and I had to hobble her to milk her. She is a dream to milk now. 
Also, first fresheners tend to not produce nearly as much as what they usually produce on their 2nd, 3rd freshening.
One of my first does produced only about a pint in the morning, and another pint in the evening. That's a quart for the day!!! (?)
I decided to give her a benefit of the doubt and kept her to freshen for the 2nd time. On her second freshening she was pumping out almost 3 gallons a day!!! 
Also, remember to give her calcium (alfalfa), and milled grains like barley, oats and wheat (if you have access to any). 
A good intake of alfalfa, and milled grains will help bump up her production as well. ....


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## kimmiesuebruno (Mar 28, 2015)

Ash, 

Thank you so much!! I was feeling so discourage after my attempt at her evening milking..she just fidgets, dances, pulls, won't eat, I'm scared I'm hurting her...Im worried about her nutrition if she's not eating. She just seems so worried about getting off the stand she'll give up the rest of her meal...There is one thing odd thing about her teats though..on the left one, she has a pump almost up to her bag that will ooz milk while I'm milking?? 

Yes this is her first freshening and my first time too. It took me 6 milkings to get 1/2 a gallon. 
When you mention "taping" what kind of tape do you use? and does it hurt her to pull off?

Sorry to unload all my insecurities  I am so thankful to have found this forum..I never thought I'd have so many issues


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## Asatrur (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks for starting this thread. We are acquiring a doe and her 2 new babies born this week in a week and have all these same questions.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

When starting out, I think everyone reaches a point where they get discouraged.  Just be persistant.  Eventually she will settle down. 
I've heard that to help with letdown you can also put one of her kids up on the stand with her, though I've never done that myself. I use VERY warm water to help the orfice relax. One of my does doesn't have a very big orfice, and dipping her teats in toasty warm water for 15-20 seconds will not only help it open up, but will help the milk come down as well. Everything relaxes and loosens up in toasty warm water, just like pores in our own skin when we take a hot bath. 
It makes a HUGE difference for me.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

As to the leaky udder.... In have one of those too! (Serenity leaks!) The milk actually oozes out of the udder from teenty tiny holes right at the top of the teat. A good friend told me putting some "NAIR" hair removal lotion on the area for a few minutes is supposed to help the holes close up.... As to how long, I don't know. Never done that either... LoL


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If there aren't some tears of frustration when you start out milking, you are very lucky.


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## Tapestry (Feb 5, 2015)

I haven't milked anything yet, but I've heard that if you get any usable milk in the first couple weeks, you are lucky or very skilled. Apparently, the goat is supposed to step in the milk or sit down or flip the milk on the ground.


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## kimmiesuebruno (Mar 28, 2015)

Thanks for the tip Abra, I may try that!


LOL.. I guess I must be lucky..she hasnt kicked over my jar YET! but she has some good dance moves!!..

Here goes another question...Since I'm not useing the milk for human consumption..(using for soap later)..currently when I milk her, I milk directly into a 1/2 gallon Ball Jar..then straight into the freezer..at the next milking I take the jar out of the freezer and milk into/ontop of the existing frozen milk..Is this ok? I didn't figure it would matter much since it's being used for soap and nobody or no animal will be ingesting the milk.:whatgoat:


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## Tapestry (Feb 5, 2015)

In this case, adding new milk to the old milk is just fine, but you may want to store it in something else, like a ziplock bag. I haven't made soap yet either, but from what I have read, you need to add lye to chilled or frozen milk because the lye causes a heat reaction. Having your milk frozen in a jar that you can't add the lye to means that you will have to defrost it first, then possibly refreeze it in something else. I may be totally wrong, but it might be something to look into sooner rather than later.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

My doe was in full milk hours after giving birth! She was so full and tight we had to milk her, but so long as the babies kept the udder loose soft and partially empty, we didn't milk.

Then I sold one of the kids as a bottle baby and the dam, Jenny, was making SOOOOO much milk we had to milk her... Now I just feel her udder every feeding time and decide from there if I need to milk. Jenny is a very good milker, great bloodlines, and this morning I got five cups milk, and her udder wasn't totally full and we still left some for the baby! Ian pretty pleased with her production 

If your doe is making enough for the babies and extra, you should probably milk her. I don't like the bottle raising either... you have to clean bottles, the babies aren't part of the big herd, they are only in the "kid pen", and the list goes on


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## c7springer (Mar 30, 2015)

My kids stay with their dam 24/7 for the first 2 weeks, and I milk out my doe every 12 hours - just whatever the kids have left. Works great for doe, kids and me!


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## momkirk (Apr 13, 2015)

*Epic fail at milking!*

I feel like such a dork! First time for me and my Nigerian Dwarf doe. Babies are now 3 1/2 weeks old and are with mom 24/7. This morning I decided I would start trying out this whole milking routine. I didn't really care about collecting much or even being debris free. Just trying to get started on the routine and getting her used to it while I fine tune things. Well...I got nothing! I realize that her twins had been with her all night but shouldn't I have been able to get a drop, a squirt, something? I have read some about technique but I must be missing something. Advice?


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## SerenitySquare (Jun 28, 2014)

I would recommend takin gthe kids off for at least 6-12 hours and then try. I think it may be easier with some pressure there. I am not an expert, this is only my second year milking and I am still experminting with what works. 
I do know that it is easier to milk with a fuller udder at least for me.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

momkirk. Have you milked before? Its OK if not, but practice makes perfect. 
Think of the udder and teat like a ballon. Pinch off the top of the teat (where it meets the udder) with your thumb and index finger to prevent the milk in the teat from flowing back up and into the udder. KEEP IT PINCHED as you squeeze below, forcing the milk to come out thru the end of the teat (orfice). Release to allow more milk to flow into the teat, and repeat. 
Sometimes the kids WILL drink the mom dry. If you think that is the case, massage, and 'bump' the udder (like a kid would do when mom is running on empty!) to encourage any milk she might be storing up in the udder to come down.
If you still get nothing, try taping her teats off for a few hours, and see what you get.


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