# First Goat Emergency, Please Respond



## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

I have a doe that is about 18 months old. Possibly bred though not far along.

Yesterday she was fine and active, today she is weak and lethargic. Her eye lids are pale, and her gums are too.

She was wormed with Ivermectin twice this spring. And has no other symptoms.

Can any of you offer suggestions? I've never had a goat emergency before and am not sure how to proceed.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Sounds like a bad case of worms causing the anemia/pale eyelids. You need to treat immediately if she is down.

Do you have a vet locally that does fecal analysis quickly? Bring a sample as quick as you can. Otherwise, just treat.

Do you have the Ivermectin or any other dewormers on hand? Be sure not to under-dose her/underestimate her weight. Which Ivermectin - the horse paste?

Also, you'll need an iron supplement immediately. Either oral Red Cell (made for horses) or injectable piglet iron. Either or both are readily available at most farm stores. Give her Red Cell orally at 6mL per 100lbs daily for one week.

Bring her water and good grass or alfalfa hay and leafy branches - she needs to keep her energy up. Hold off on grains for now.

Check the eyelids/FAMACHA on all your other goats while you are at it and /or have fecal analysis done.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

All I can do is share an experience I had in our first year of owning goats that sounds similar. I had a doeling that I wormed and the wormer did not work. She was already anemic and I was dealing with that but then she became weak and lethargic. I am fortunate to have a fairly knowledgeable vet so I took her in and she had a low blood sugar. When we gave her glucose she came around. It was at this time that I learned I had purchased some goats with resistance and had to change my wormer, but at that little doelings expense If you do not have access to a vet you could try to pck up her blood sugar (if that is not it it will not hurt her) first by rubbing corn syrup or molasses on her gums to see how she responds. I would not drench anything while she is lethargic because she could aspirate (get in the lungs) and then you will have another problem. 
I am sorry about your girl, and I know this post probably was not very helpful but it was all I had! My heart is with you :hug:


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## wintergreen (Apr 4, 2013)

In addition to everything SalteyLove said, I find that the injectable B vitamins from Tractor Supply help with treating worms. I think they boost the immune system and appetite.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What is her temp?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice and questions.

Also check for lice.

Getting a fecal would help determine what is going on and what to treat for.
Get a temp too.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Ok guys,

My goat died. She seemed weak this morning. But could walk if I encouraged her to. I knew it was serious, but didn't think she'd be gone 20 minutes later.

Now, I have another whose legs just went out from under her. She screamed and thrashed and got back up. She is walking around, has been eating, but now seems uncomfortable.

My husband says he fed them evergreen cuttings last night before bed. I am now wondering about poisoning.


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## Ziegen (Sep 22, 2014)

So sorry to hear for your loss. If you have another that is starting to show symptoms, I would go ahead and take her to the vet asap.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

We have no goat vets within 1.5-2 hours. I suspect she will be gone in that amount of time. Looking up information on what I can do for her.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this. The pale eyelids indicate anemia so can be a symptom of internal bleeding rather than worms but I'm not sure it is linked to what you are seeing. Does the second goat have pale eyelids as well??

Are you seeing any staggering? Look closely at their eyes - are they "dancing"?

Is it possible the evergreen cuttings contained any mountain laurel, rhododendron, or azalea? Usually you would see puking with any of those so I'm not convinced.

It IS possible she died of parasite overload if she has been fighting them a while.

Anybody think she could be looking at goat polio or listeriosis? Meningeal worm perhaps? I'm grasping at straws.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank-you.

I am not sure what is happening. I am inclined to think they might have a worm issue, but I don't think that is what is killing them today.

There is a chance the evergreen is a yew of some type, which I understand is deadly. My sick girl is still up and moving some. But she seems uncomfortable. Her back legs failed her. The other (the one that just died) had some weakness in the back legs too.

I am trying to learn about all different diseases at once, and I am running out of time. I don't know what to do.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Since you don't know what is going on I would treat for everything. If I have a goat that I have no clue what is going on I treat for anything that comes to mind and it sounds like you don't have much time to do that. So worms is a good idea I would include cocci as well. I've never dealt with polio but have read about it and that is penicillin and vit. B since you don't have a vet. Make sure the goat is hydrated. I'm not thinking poising but I don't see how some charcoal will hurt. I'm drawing a blank on what it could be 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

How much vitamin b complex should she get?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Inject 6cc of B Complex immediately and then read this: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

It depends on if you have the "Fortified" or not but it will not hurt her! You can inject more after reading if needed.

The back legs is a true sign of meningeal worm. I have never dealt with it myself but this really sounds like what you are dealing with: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/meningealworm.html


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

I know my husband fed them evergreen cuttings before bed last night. I believe they might be yew cuttings which is toxic.

The goats may have a separate worm problem, but whatever this is, is causing hind leg weakness, abdominal discomfort, and death.

I am considering barberpole worm, meningeal worm, and yew poisoning all as potential problems.

But they all require different treatments and I would hate to do all of them to the poor girl.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

If it is poisoning activated charcoal might help.


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## takethelead (Dec 18, 2013)

I would start with the poisoning since they had no symptoms before eating the evergreen.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Dose with Activated Charocole..CD ANtotixin...MOM what ever you have to get id of the toxins...Im so sorry...how scary...

B complex and Probios as a support...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

symptoms of Yew poisoning



> Sudden death, often within 2-3 hours of ingestion, is the most common observation with yew poisoning (1). Animals are often found dead next to yew bushes or clippings. Prior to death, muscle trembling, incoordination, nervousness, difficulty breathing, slow heart rate, vomiting, diarrhea and convulsions may be observed (1). No post-mortem signs are specific to yew poisoning, unless partially digested twigs and needles are found in the mouth and stomach. There is no specific treatment or antidote for yew poisoning. Supportive therapies have variable success rates, depending on the amount of yew ingested and how quickly actions are taken.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

The only thing that doesn't seem like the yew poisoning is the fact that they ate the plants sometime around 6pm. Maybe a little later. By 10:30am, one was dead. By 12pm, another is symptomatic.

They exhibit weakness in all four legs. They do seem uncomfortable. There is no diarrhea or vomiting. I saw one of my does start to poop (it was solid, maybe not pelleted) but she had an episode during that time and collapsed. After about 1 full minute, she got back up.

She was fed plantain along with the yew, and a friend thought maybe that helped reduce the toxicity so that the animals didn't exhibit symptoms until several hours later than they normally should (for yew).


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

My local Tractor Supply carries large tubes of Activated Charcoal gel. My advice would be to call your local one, or similar store, and see if they have any in stock. If not, call a local vet. CD+T Anti-toxin also, if you can find any locally. You want the anti-toxin, and not the toxoid used for vaccinating. Good luck, I'm with you in prayer.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Sounds like toxicity to me too. Get some activated charcoal in her asap
CD antitoxin and MOM ( milk of magnesia ) in her to help rid the body of the toxins. You need to be really aggressive with this treatment.
Prayers she recovers for you ! Im so sorry you lost your other girl


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

If you have a pet store , like Petco , you can pick up activated charcoal there , just saying.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> She was fed plantain along with the yew, and a friend thought maybe that helped reduce the toxicity so that the animals didn't exhibit symptoms until several hours later than they normally should (for yew).


Yes...it could have helped reduce the toxcity..at any rate it does sound like some kind of poison and I would address it as such.....See what you have on hand..Milk of magnesia ( Maylox) 15 cc per 60 # will help flush the toxins...Activated Charocole will absorb...CD Antitoxin will rid the body of Toxins....any or all of these can be used...

best wishes!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

even charcole for fish tanks work!


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

I have activated charcoal in pill form. How should I give that? In some bread?

Checking the neighbor to see about MOM. Dose suggestion?

Trying to get someone to bring me some of the CDT anti-toxin.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would crush several the charcole pills and add enough water to drench them
MOM is 15 cc per 60# every 4 hours....poop will turn soft/runny...let it run its coarse..

be sure you get CD Antitoxin..NOT cd&t....cd&t is a toxoid...it wont help right now...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Crush enough charcoal for a tablespoonful or two, and add a little water and dose them with that. Then follow up with a dose of MOM in about 2-3 hours. 
Get some Ivermectin Plus, Prohibit or something along those lines, and worm all your goats with pale lids, give the one that is down some Banamine, and Dexamethasone, as well as the wormer.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank-you all. I am sorry I am not responding individually.

I am running back and forth between here and goats. 

I did give the activated charcoal. I made a slurry with some water and added a couple tablespoons of brown sugar. The sick goat, slurped it up like it was the most delicious thing she every had. The other goats had a little taste too. They liked it, but not as much as the sick goat did.

Gonna follow up with the MOM. Trying to get CDT anti-toxin, but my local TSC says that it is a seasonal product and they do not have it. Ugh.

My sick girl is still hanging in there. I don't think I should be too hopeful. She has eaten, pee'd, has nice pelleted stool. Chews cud. But sometimes she is in obvious discomfort. Other times, her legs fail spectacularly.

My herd queen is not acting herself. She is moving at half speed. Not trying to be first at anything. Eating, and peeing. Somewhat curious. 

I am thinking they might need treated for worms, but am getting more convinced that an infestation is not what's killing them. I still think this is poisoning. Three of five goats, all on the same day seems too coincidental for worms. I think. Maybe.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

What color are their eyelid membranes? If they are pale they definitely need treated for worms, and that is most likely one of the biggest problems right now. 
When the membranes go really pale, to white, they are just barely hanging in there, they have way too many worms to survive with them, and deworming them will either help them greatly and turn them back around on the road to recovery, or it's a last ditch effort that is in vain when they are too far gone to help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with little bits...be sure to inject the ivemec this first dose...to be safe..1 cc per 40#...red cell, v B 12...green leaves, vines and alfalfa are all good to help rebuild red blood cells...

continue the poison treatment as well....


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

After talking to a vet, he convinced me to try giving Quest. It really makes me nervous as I hear this one is easy to overdose and I can only guess their weights based on heart girth.

Trying not to be too stressed and scared.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

many use Quest with no issues...a close weight based on girth should be just fine...I know your nerves are frazzled!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I've double dosed kids with quest before, and heard of vets giving it two days in a row to clean them out of worms. No ill effects.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Do you have activated charcoal? If you think this is poisoning, give them activated charcoal, or CD anti-toxin. See if you can get a vet over. I would also run fecals, and take temps. Prayers being sent. :hug:


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

I am so sorry for your loss and that I could not offer any more help than I did but now that everyone is on board you are in good hands! It sounds like you are doing a good job. Just remember to breath so ya don't pass out and know that we are all here for you and with you!


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

happybleats said:


> many use Quest with no issues...a close weight based on girth should be just fine...I know your nerves are frazzled!


Do I need to repeat Quest again in ~10 days like I would for Ivermectin?

Update: Goats are all alive this morning. Really watching the most affected one. She improved a lot yesterday evening, but by bedtime last night, she seemed slow and uncomfortable again.

Going to continue administering red-cell and b-vitamins.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

You need to wait 28 days after giving quest and have a fecal done. You don't need to dose quest after ten days because it stays in their system longer


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can try a GI Soother as well...fir meadow has one..I made one from spices, not as strong as herbs but my goats liked it and it really seemed to help..

1/2 teaspoon each, cinnamon, ginger, chyenne pepper, molasses and ACV then added the Water Kiefer to make about 20cc drench
You can use water, milk kiefer or yogart instead of water kiefer


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Should you be giving charcoal when you are giving worm medication? The charcoal will de-activate the meds in the wormer. Make sure you give the charcoal time to clear the system before giving the de-wormer.

I used to use Quest when I had only a few goats. Never had a problem with overdosing when I didn't have an exact weight on the goats. 1cc per 100 pounds.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.

Prayers sent.


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## Wripley (Mar 28, 2014)

Update:

After lots of ups and downs with one of my goats collapsing a few times each hour, we're finally through the worst of it. I think.

I had a friend come over and she determined that the goats were not that anemic. We did stool samples, and found only pin worms.

Just because we had nothing to lose, we treated the goats for listeriosis and polio, but I don't think that helped all that much.

After talking to a vet, we've determined that the yew bushes caused the goats to be unable to process/absorb vitamin B and that was causing the weakness and collapse. I began giving vitamin-b injections every 6 hours, today it will be every 8 hours. Tomorrow, I will give it once every 12, and then once the following day. Hopefully that will be "it".

As of yesterday, my most symptomatic doe seemed 100% though she did lose a little bit of weight.

The third doe has never collapsed, but she is lethargic and acting weak. She has some tremors in her back legs. She perks up nicely for a bit after receiving her vitamin b injection. Hopefully, we'll have a better day today.

If the girls make it through this, I will be VERY lucky to have lost only one goat to yew poisoning.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im glad you found your source...I would keep straight thiamine on hand....it is RX but does not cost much...vit. B 1 def. is Polio...no matter how they got it...even from the yew plant, if you cant get Thiamine..Fortified B complex has plenty thiamine in it to help...Im very happy your goats are feeling better....that was, Im sure a very scary time...

best wishes


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow , you did great caring for them ! So glad there aren't any other tragedies ! Your doing wonderful being so aggressive treating them !
Good for you , very happy to hear your update 
Prayers they all recover fully and quickly for you :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wripley said:


> Update:
> 
> Just because we had nothing to lose, we treated the goats for listeriosis and polio, but I don't think that helped all that much.
> 
> After talking to a vet, we've determined that the yew bushes caused the goats to be unable to process/absorb vitamin B and that was causing the weakness and collapse. I began giving vitamin-b injections every 6 hours, today it will be every 8 hours. Tomorrow, I will give it once every 12, and then once the following day. Hopefully that will be "it".


I do have to say, they did have Polio, the yew bushes, causing their bodies to not absorb B vitamins, is Thiamine, which is crucial to goats health. That is what caused the symptoms. So yes, it helped and that is why the goats are doing better and still on it. They are responding to it. 
Glad they are doing good now, keep up the good work. :hug:


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