# Retained Placenta? *It's out!*



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Hello everyone. It's me again. Doe #3 to kid yesterday with trips (one stillborn, two living) STILL has the placenta hanging. It's now been just over 24 hours. I did get some oxytocin from the vet earlier and gave that to her, plus a shot of excede because of the dead baby (unknown how long she had been dead, but eyes flat and cloudy). The vet also suggested I go in again and check for another kid, which I did. Gloved up with a sterile glove and went in. Can't feel any more kids. I also bounced her and felt nothing. This whole thing has been a nightmare. The vet also suggested I lightly pull on the placenta to see if it would free and I did, no luck even though does was pushing at the same time.
Vet doesn't think it's a selenium issue so she didn't give me any, but I've read on here that it helps. Jeffers was back ordered when I tried to get some previously and Tractor supply near me doesn't have any. I did get Selenium pills at the pharmacy that are 200 mcg each. I know Hoosiershadow used human pills before. How much? I can crush and drench with liquid E that I have on hand.
Sorry to be such a pain, this is just not my best couple of days. This doe also has a doeling with a weak left hind leg (knee joint hyperflexes forward at times so that she falls). Do you think she also needs some selenium/E?
:hair: :sigh: 
And just how long should I wait for that placenta to pass before getting concerned? I hate to rack up yet another vet bill with the huge one I received yesterday. Thank you for any help. I'm losing my mind here.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

if she hasnt had much selenium and you are in a deficent area then give 1mg of selenium per 40lbs -- well that would be injected you probably could give more orally but its better to be safe with it since selenium poisoning is impossible to reverse. And my bottle of BoSe says it has 50mg of vitamine E per ml so that would also be 50mg per 40lbs again thats injected. Im so not sure how that equivocates for orally

I would give the kid some selenium too it should help her back leg


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

It is for sure a retained placenta... do you have a turkey baster?? You can improvise and try to flush her out yourself. Load the turkey baster or a 50ml syringe with clean water or sterile water(boiled) and put a few drops of iodine in it until it looks like tea. Try flushing the stuff into her vagina.. or cervix if you can still enter. It should help flush out the placenta. Also, she needs Oxtetracycline(LA-200, biomycin, agrimycin) in her. That stuff penetrates the uterus much better. You can even take a 6cc syringe loaded with that. Take off the needle and try to squirt it into her uterus.

The doe kid and the doe need BoSe. I would try to get the vet to give it to you. If not then try the tablets.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Thank you Stacy! I will start crushing pills and give it. :thumb:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

I agree...selenium deficiency... also give vit E with it..... :hug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Thank you, Runaround and Pam. I do have a big syring so I will do the flush. Our vet doesn't carry Bose, it's something that sounds like "mul se"? Different brand but essentially the same thing. She acted like I was nuts when I asked for some, telling me that I give them grain with selenium so they should be fine. Uhg! It looks like I'm crushing pills. 1 mg = 1000 mcg, so I've got quite a few pills to do!
I have very potent liquid E and will be adding that in, too! You guys are great. Thank you thank you!!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

MuSe is for cattle and is a much higher dose that will kill goats.. so thats no good


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

I agree don't use MuSe.... very strong 

Maybe it is best then... to crush up the pills... like you where thinking on doing.... :hug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Okay, I crushed up the pills and added liquid vitamin E, added water and drenched the entire thing. I also added iodine to boiled water after I let it cool and, using a seperate drench gun, drenched about 300 cc of iodine water. I will have to go get some LA 200 from tractor supply. The entire amound of the suspended placenta is now brown/purple. It has made some progress because after I tied it up, it was at her knees last night. Now it's touching the ground. Oxytocin doesn't seem to be doing anything to help, so I guess now I just wait and see. How much longer should I wait before doing something else with her? The vet closes in 1.5 hours.
Also got 1 selenium pill crushed to the doeling with e added.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

LA200, BioMycin Agrimycin... your feed store has at least one of these.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Is she milked out all the way? sometimes making sure they are milked out helps pass the placenta.

You can try flushing her again if you think it helped.

Otherwise it's just a waiting game. I had a doe hold her's for 3-4 days before it fell out. She was on high doses of oxytet and she pulled through ok.

When she started to clean out about a week after she had really nasty discharge and a fever, so we started her on excenel(same thing as exede but you need to give a shot a day) and now she is fine.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

I have milked her out as much as I can with her udder almost to the ground. It's massive! I've been able to milk 8 oz per size for her two kids to eat, but finally got the boy to lie on his stomach and reach his neck up to eat. The girl refuses to try and just wants the bottle. Will have to wait until she's good and hungry. They can't even eat on their knees, it has to be lying flat.
On my way to go get LA200 at tractor supply, our local feed store only carries the mega bottle for cattle. I will flush her again with the iodine water later and then put 6 cc of LA 200 in behind it. Should I also give her the LA 200 injections since she has the exede on board?
Glad to know she may go 3-4 days if no signs of infection before I have to worry. Last year she passed the placenta quickly with no issues at all.
Thank you again for your help. I would truly be lost without you guys on here!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

How is Karma? I am so sorry you are going through all of this  FL is a selenium def. state isn't it? If so, then shame on your vet for thinking you are crazy needing BoSe! I am glad you were able to get the selenium tablets and vit e into them. 
I definitely recommend getting BoSe or selenium e gel for goats to keep handy so you don't always have to crush the pills, BUT, the pills work too 
Flash is two months old - when he was 3 weeks old he was showing signs of selenium deficiency. I hadn't been able to order the gel yet, so that's when I used the tablets - I just gave him one of each, and he bounced back within a day or so.

We opted to go with the gel instead of injection - but I know injection works faster... You can get the selenium e gel from Jeffers for around $6-7.00 so it's not expensive. Dosage is on the tube.
I don't typically give my does anything because I am afraid of poisoning them, but if they are showing signs or have kids that are really deficient then I will give them some. 
But right after our kids stand and nurse, we give them a dose. 
Give the doeling a day or two now that you've dosed her and you'll see much improvement 

LA200 I've learned is something to definitely keep on hand.

Karma is in my thoughts and prayers, I really hope she will be okay. I also hope her kids figure out the whole nursing thing. I was telling my husband today about Karma's udder, and how massive it was! Is she a full blooded boer or mix? I haven't seen a whole lot of boer udders, but MY GOODNESS that udder is huge LOL She could probably feed all the kids you have there plus more with that udder LOL


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Yes, I would give the LA-200 by injection as well. 1cc per 20lbs once a day for 5 days.

The oxytet passes into the uterus much better. I also don't trust exede because it's a one time shot and those normally don't work well in goats. I have given both at the same time.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Karma is doing the same, still no progress passing the placenta. The vet said she will contract for 24 hours and if it doesn't pass, I guess just give her another round of oxytocin.
I'm seriously exhausted. Since we got goats last spring it's drained my wallet with vet costs ($2k plus), wormer, fencing, shelter, and feed for 1/2 gallon of milk a day for about 6 months and 1 wether in the freezer after a $60 slaughter fee. Dh is about to call it quits. We've lost 6 of them in that time and it's hard not to be depressed about it all.
I fear we are about to lose Karma's babies as well. They refuse to nurse off her. I get the teat in their mouth, express the milk, and they just let it run out of their mouth. They took a bottle well all day yesterday and even earlier today, but now they wont even do that. It's the same thing, nurse a bit and let it run out of their mouth. I got them to each eat 1 oz with the bottle just a little while ago before they just stopped. They last ate 5 hours ago because they haven't wanted to eat since then. I was going to tube feed them but think maybe I'm just putting off what's going to happen anyway. Temps are normal, they are under heat lamps. The boy's rectum was plugged with dried meconium so he passed the yellow stool not long after I checked a temp. Karma hasn't been cleaning them or even talking to them today. I had to make her come in from the pasture to be with them when I gave her a 1/2 hour break out of the stall.
Karma doesn't want much to do with them. She hasn't licked their bottoms and wont even sleep by them. When we tried to get them to nurse she just wanted to walk off. She was a good mother last year, so maybe she just knows something isn't right. She's also probably contracting and not feeling well herself with that placenta hanging out. I gave her some ibuprofen to help a bit.
I even tried to graff the babies onto the nubian. She accepted them, even if she was a bit hesitant. She let us put the teat in their mouth and stood there. Again, nothing from them.
They were inside Karma with a dead kid, so maybe that is affecting them. It's like they have both given up and just don't want to live. They both have a strong suck reflex still. I just don't get it.
I've also had 6 hours of sleep since Friday night and have had bronchitis, so not the most energetic to deal with it right now. If I had local goat friends I'd put out the SOS for reinforcements but I don't. Not sure how the night is going to play out but I'm seriously drained and sicker from being out in the storm on delivery night/day. :sigh: :shrug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Ok, you NEED to tube feed these kids. It makes a LOT of difference. I know the giving up feeling. I've been there, I've done that. It feels like the walls are caving in around you. It's going to be hard, but you are going to get through this.

You need to tube feed these kids and get more selenium in them.

As for both the doe, do you have a bottle of oxytocin? I would try 1/2cc oxytocin every hour for 3 times.. see if that helps. Also try the flush again. On my doe with the retained placenta I had to flush her at least 3 times in one day.

I think your main problem here is BoSe. You need to get this. Try other vets in the area, or even out of your area. Tell them it's an emergency.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Our vet was going to get some injectible selenium tomorrow, but I work in a bigger city with more supplies. Will try to get BoSe tomorrow. I did bring them back in and dh got the boy to eat 3 oz by tickling his tail and coaxing him along. The girl would nto eat at all so I tube fed her 4 oz. She ate a whole 6 oz around 4:00-4:30 but I didn't want to give her that much this time. She had plenty of energy to fight me placing the tube. Problem is that I cannot take off work tomorrow after missing today. Will they be okay feeding them in the morning around 8:00 (bottle or tube) and then feeding again around 3:30 PM? I know that's not ideal but not sure what else to do right now. I SO hope the BoSe turns this around.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

BoSe is by prescription only so you need to make sure you can get a script for it. If you can't get it, check for selenium e gel for goats. Or if all else fails what about more selenium tablets?

I'm sorry Karma isn't being a great mom this time around, hopefully it's just because she isn't feeling great. I sure wish I lived closer to you, I'd be right over to help in any way I could!


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Thank you, Candice. I know it's because she's not feeling good (me and her both). The kids were jumping all around and energetic this morning, bouncing all over the place! I guess that selenium and vit E finally kicked in. I got the boy to latch on to mom for 1 minute to eat and the girl for 30 seconds. Then milked Karma out and fed each an entire 4 oz bottle.
If I could get rid of that darn placenta, I'm sure it would all be so much better. I will find BoSe today no matter what it takes.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

hope things start looking up for you :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

The Bo-se will help.......retained Placenta... is caused by selenium deficiency.... good luck :hug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

I've called about 6 different vets in Tallahassee, FL who see goats and nobody stocks BoSe! Half had never even heard of it. Our vet is checking into the concentration of MuSe to see if it can be diluted, but that makes me nervous. I gave Karma 3 mg selenium and 1000 mg vit e orally yesterday. I can administer more today rectally. Sounds gross but liquids are rapidly absorbed in the large intestine. I just don't want her to get to the toxic level, so not sure how much more to give? She's 120-150 lbs. I went with 120 to be on the safe side.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Retained Placenta?*

Do you know of any goat breeders near you ...that maybe you can buy some from them?


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

We took Karma down to the vet and she pulled the placenta out. She used more force than I would have felt comfortable using at home, but it finally came free. There was only a foot or so that hadn't come out yet. She then went in and checked to make sure there were no more babies (there weren't) and flushed her with oxyetet (sp?) before giving her a shot of banamine. Her temp was 103.7.
So no more worries about the placenta and hopefully no infection. The placenta by this time was green and black and had a funky odor. I cleaned her backside off really well with antibacterial soap just a little while ago and put her back in with her babies. She didn't want to go in and is oblivious to their cries. I helped them to nurse her and she was trying to kick them away to where we had to hold her (this afternoon and this last time). I know she's still in pain because she was shivering really bad after they pulled the placenta but hope she feels better soon and loves those babies.
No more bottles. I'm going to get them down on her if I have to hold her every time so that eventually they will figure it out on their own. Their sire wasn't very bright, so...we'll see how that goes. (Stuck his head in the fence multiple times a day until his horns got too big). :applaud: Things are starting to look a little brighter...


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!


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## logansmommy7 (Nov 11, 2009)

I had a similar situation with a baby who was extremely weak at birth and didn't get up-we brought her in-then put her back out. Mama let her suckle a bit-but not enough. I heeded the advice of Ashley and Stacey to tube feed the kid and boost with selenium. We did it-and even though we have a bottle baby now-she is going to make it. The selenium, and tube feeding make ALL the difference. Good luck... :thumb:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you! The babies are doing MUCH better, even if it was just oral selenium. They were bouncing around and hopping like rabbits, chasing each other. I really don't want bottle babies so am going to keep working on them with their mom. ray: That when she feels better she will take care of them and they will somehow become smart enough to keep finding the nipple without me having to pry their mouth open and stick it in. Until she feeds them, they are all stuck in the kidding stall together.  
I also ordered a bottle of Bo-Se from our vet and refused the Mu-Se after reading about it on here. Hope it will be in soon and in the meantime I'm giving her nutri drench plus our usual grain with selenium added. 
The vet thinks the issue is more the dead kid since it looked like it had been gone for awhile, but that doesn't seem to explain the weak leg in the girl, IMO. I also saw how well they perked up after Selenium and E last night. :thumb:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so glad to hear the placenta is out! Now hopefully mama will try to bond with her kids. I know how frustrating it is with her not standing for them to nurse  Our doe that had the weak kid has gotten better about letting them nurse, but she doesn't let them nurse very often and when they are outside, she doesn't call to her buckling, or look for him when it's time to nurse - so....I still have to go and make sure he's nursing several times a day and during the night. I don't want a bottle baby either! So far this is working great. As long as she isn't being mean to them, then I'd keep making her stand for them


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do hope the vet knew.. how to release the buttons from the placenta... Forcing it concerns me.... :hug: ray:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

When she pulled the placenta, she just used a gradual pulling (all external) until it came free. There wasn't any bleeding but there was some pinkish brown discharge. She then checked internally and said she didn't feel any more or placenta or babies. Then she again went in internally with the flush tubing for the antibiotic. I don't think she released any buttons? She's been shivering off an on tonight since then with very little discharge (almost none). I gave her some ibuprofen even though she said the banamine would work for 12 hours. ray: 
She's bonding with the boy and he figured out how to nurse with lots of coaxing. She stood and let him. He still tries to go to the front and nurse off her chest, but improvement. The girl she seems to have rejected completely at this point.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I hope and pray that what the vet did was fine, and she'll start healing up. What an experience this has been, I am so sorry  I wish I lived closer to you even though I am not much help, still just being there and supporting you....
I am glad to hear she is bonding with the boy. Is she pushing the girl away or just ignoring her? If she's not pushing her away, then keep trying. At least if she will let her nurse <if the girl catches on to nursing>, and the twins bond, at least she is getting her nutrition, and has a buddy. 
I am going through the same thing right now. My doe doesn't push the buckling away, but she cares more for the doeling. She doesn't let them nurse as often as the other does let their kids, so I have to make it a point to stop her and make her nurse her kids. It's frustrating, but hey...babies are getting the real stuff from their mama, and so far so good 

I know you work though, so that can be a pain....but hopefully it'll work out, and she'll have them both nursing on their own. Many thoughts and prayers going out that things keep progressing in the right direction.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you, Candice. I wish you were closer, too! The little boy figured out how to get to the teat on his own again this morning and Karma let him. She's very patient with him and has begun talking to them for the first time since their birth. She's even talking to the little girl and licking her backside now. The little girl has been nudging the udder after finding it on her own but won't yet nurse. They have plenty of energy, boucing all over, so just going to watch and ray: they both get it. Karma will let them and today is like their first day as newborns, though they are 3 days old. I'm going to try to stay out of there completely until this afternoon because the little girl jumps on my back and nudges my armpit like I'm her mother. If I'm in there, she ignores Karma and comes crying to me. Not good.
Karma looks to be feeling MUCH better today, eating and drinking more and her eyes are shiney now. She's noticed she has babies. :wink:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> When she pulled the placenta, she just used a gradual pulling (all external) until it came free. There wasn't any bleeding but there was some pinkish brown discharge. She then checked internally and said she didn't feel any more or placenta or babies. Then she again went in internally with the flush tubing for the antibiotic. I don't think she released any buttons? She's been shivering off an on tonight since then with very little discharge (almost none). I gave her some ibuprofen even though she said the banamine would work for 12 hours. ray:
> She's bonding with the boy and he figured out how to nurse with lots of coaxing. She stood and let him. He still tries to go to the front and nurse off her chest, but improvement. The girl she seems to have rejected completely at this point.


I am praying that all goes well... ray: 
Just keep working with momma and baby....it will happen....with time...

Did the vet tell you... to give her antibiotic injections?....the color of pinkish brown may indicate infection....and should have the antibiotics for a week or more....depending... :hug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you, Pam. The kids are with the mom and have been since the first night I brought them in (very cold and wet and mom couldn't feed them). I found out she wasn't rejecting the girl, she was rejecting me. She thought I was going to milk her again and she hates that. I eased both kids up to her teats and they both ate well. The boy is picking it up quicker but the girl did pretty good today. Both very energetic still, so doing great.
The vet said if she goes off her food, continues with a temp, or otherwise acts like she isn't doing well then she would give her a stronger antibiotic, but she thinks the excede will do good for now. The one she mentioned had a tram sound to it and said it was very strong. Karma also received excede 1 week prior to kidding because she had an allergy cough I didn't want to take chances with. That may have helped things from being worse with the dead kid inside. So far it's all good! No fever today, licking her babies, calling to them, letting them nurse (as long as I stand back away and just gently guide them). I keep monitoring her for fever, checking temp 3 times a day. Keeping her and babies in the kidding stall until I know for sure they know how to eat without assistance and she's well bonded to them. Tornado watches all around and nasty today so everyone's inside anyway. Praying no more deliveries with this storm, I need a break!
I did find someone willing to buy our intire herd including two adult GP's in case we decide to go that route. Taking a few days to think it over because I really enjoy them and love them, but with a full-time job and 5 2-legged kids I have to prioritize in what I can and can't do.
*Edited to add that the doeling's leg is stronger now to where it no longer flexes forward! :applaud:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No Problem... :thumb: 

With a little time..and patience.. the kid will catch on....

Wow ...tornado watch... how scary is that.. :shocked: ..I pray... that everything is going to be OK.... ray: :hug: 

I respect your decision... if you sell your herd........you are right ...the 2 legged kids are more of a priority.... :greengrin: :hi5:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't know how many goats you do have but maybe bring the number down to something more reasonable for you to handle and only keep those that kid easily and are good mothers?

Glad mom and babies are doing better


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Stacey, we had 7 pregnant does, a 3 month doeling, and our new 3 month buckling. We lost a doe and gained 2 doelings and 2 bucklings, plus 4 more to kid.
The one giving me fits right now was the absolute best mother last year and kidded very easily (a ten pounder!). I think the dead kid this year made all the difference and it can happen again.
What I think about is that breeding goats I need to be able to bottle feed if necessary, and I'm not sure how well they would do eating 8 AM, 4 PM, 9PM, and even 12PM if needed. Missing work for 2 months isn't optional. Alternatively, I was going to call 4-H or advertise on craigs list for cheap (or even free if need be) bottle babies. That's another option.
I'm not sure if the size is the problem because 50 easy births with good moms are easier than 1 difficult birth with bottle babies, but you are right. Playing the odds, it's more likely to happen with more. It was all heaven until Saturday and everyone popped at once. It's easing off now, thank goodness. My stress meter was over the top (lots of other issues in life at the same time, bad timing). I may also just keep my girls and not breed them. Pretty pasture pets! :wink:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I've been there. All goes great till you have to hand raise but if you can do as you mention.ed like having somone on call who will purchase any bottle babies then that will reduce the stress level. So say before kidding season starts advertise saying something to the effect of "need some one to take all orphaned or abandoned kids born. Must be able to purchase immediately upon notice." and if you get responses then you know that if any kids are born needing handraising that the burden is off you. 

Maybe I'm just rambling but what you said sounded so hopeful but its important to have it lined up first so you don't take days to find some one if the need arises


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

You are right, Stacey, thank you! I will contact our local 4-H. The kids start buying their market goats right around now to show in the late fall and they are pretty expensive ($150-250). So maybe a family would like a $50 or less bottle baby. Several people at my vet's office also have goats, even though I don't know them personally. I can ask around and line it up in advance.
I have VERY good news to report! I went out after dinner to help the kiddos learn to nurse again and the boy did it all by himself before I ever entered the stall. One down! The girl took minimal direction and nursed for a minute before mom walked off. The girl then chased her around the stall bumping and looking for that teat, so I think she's going to get it pretty quickly too! Both babies were jumping up in the air and spinning in circles like Jackie Chan so energy level is great. We might just make it after all..... (and going to make phone calls tomorrow for backup!)


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so glad that Karma is doing better with the babies! Shows she is feeling much better  I think it's a great idea to have people you can call on if they want bottle babies. There is a local breeder in our county that I have heard also sells kids as bottle babies - if a doe has more than 2 <commercial does so he doesn't want them getting run down> or if something happens and ends up with bottle babies. He sells them for $50 each.

I hope everything is fine your way with the storms.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like things are looking up and hopefully your idea pans out well


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