# Selling goats - thoughts?



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Alright, this is going to be long, please bare with me.

So I saw on a Nubian FB group that someone is looking for a cheap(ish) reg. Nubian doeling in LA. Now, I for one know how RARE Nubians (or any good quality goats) are here and so - although she was looking for a CHEAP registered one and I will only have reasonably priced unregisterable kids available for sale - I let her know what I will have just incase.

She is interested in one particular doe's kid (because it will be the least expensive, though still nice), and asked very good questions (my fav thing to hear when selling goats!). BUT, she asked a couple times if I would go any lower. I asked her - in the nicest manner possible - if she couldn't afford to pay for a nice lil' doeling, how is she going to feed her properly? And she said that her dad gave her a budget to follow... which I can understand except, since this doeling - if born - won't be able to go to her new home until April when weaned, I wonder if she couldn't try to earn more money to buy her (I didn't ask her this though)?

And, I asked this potential buyer if she had any other goats for said doeling to be with, but she doesn't. She said that she would be with the doeling 24/7 so she'll be fine. I told her that she would really need a goat friend (but I wanted to say, "how could someone possibly be with a goat 24/7?" but didn't of course) and that I would sell her a wether for a companion if she liked, because one of my sale policies is this: if a buyer doesn't already have at least one other goat, I will only sell goats in pairs - or more.

Now she is telling me that she definitely wants a doeling. But that they only have a 6' x 6' pen (I asked if it was only for night time or 24/7, but she avoided the question) so they can't get two. And two goats would be over their budget as well. That was after I had offered them a wether to go with the doeling for only $50!

She just wrote me a long FB message saying that her dog just had puppies and that it will be very hard on her to watch TWO goats and make sure the puppies don't "eat them" until they find the puppies a new home (the adult dogs are trained though). And she said that "when its cold I don't have a lot of couches for all the dogs and two goats". I am not exactly sure what that means...

I know that many of you have more experience in selling goats, and I wanted to get y'alls opinions on what to do. I am stumped! I don't want to offend anyone, but I just think she isn't ready for goats again (she used to have two bucks). I will NOT sell a goat alone, I think it is just cruel. But she just doesn't get that.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Follow your instincts! If you are not comfortable selling one to her, explain that you will not sell a single and thanks for her interest.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

I agree with Goats Rock. The entire story seems like the makings of a bad situation for the goat.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wouldn't be selling to her. Too many red flags.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yep, this is not someone to sell a goat to at all. she will likely flake out on you anyway.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Easy. Do you want your doe spending her life in a 6x6 pen by herself, ( possibly outside with no shelter) surrounded by a pack of dogs? Remember the buyer is trying to make it sound as good as she can.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Run. Run as far away from this buyer as you can!!! She is not ready for goats. She may not be ready for dogs!!!

I understand budgets. I live on an extremely fixed income. But I figure if I have to try to jack somebody's fair price down, then it's not a good deal for me or for them. I look at buyers the same way.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Thanks everyone. It is a young girl I am talking to I think - and she seems bound and determined to get a doeling from Melody (if she has one). I told her that I just couldn't, in good conscience, sell a goat by itself. Now I just hope that she doesn't change her mind and want a doeling/wether pair after all! If she does though, I will probably tell her no. Since posting this thread, I have been thinking it over more and I re-read her message about the dogs - and that is scary, really. She was afraid that with two goats she might not be able to protect both, I don't see how one goat would be much different.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

I think you are making the right decision.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The budget wouldn’t bother me. Actually my kids have their budget for a doeling right now and no way are they allowed to go $1 over that! They are going to learn what they can afford and what they can’t and it doesn’t matter how nice the animal is, if they can’t afford it they are not getting it. If they want something for more money they are going to have to wait till they sell their wethers next year to go over it. BUT in no way am I expecting anyone to lower THEIR price because they don’t have the money. Now they haven’t found one they like yet but if they do and it’s over what they have I would tell them to offer what they have. If yes then it’s a yes if a no end of story it’s over move on, no hounding! I know a lot of people get offended over this and I don’t understand why. It has nothing to do with their animal being junk it has to do with what the buyer can afford.
NOW the other issues? I agree with mike. Ask yourself if you are ok with what she has said so far. No your not! Once the money lands in your hand you loose all say to that animal. Right now you have a say. I think it is very nice of you to try and work with this young lady but don’t kick yourself over having a kind heart. Trust me if you end up finding out this goat ended up in a bad home you will be tore up about it for a long time........so far it’s been 6 years for me over a buck I sold


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I wouldn't even consider selling to her. If she came back wanting a pair I would just be honest and say I am sorry, you clearly do not have a safe, healthy, environment for goats and I can't sell to you. I never feel bad telling someone no when it comes to an animal. Especially a kid. They need to learn that all animals have specific requirements and you are responsible for meeting those before getting said animal.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

I would definitely not sell to her and probably point her in the direction of some online goat info if she wants them when she's older (read: more responsible). Just for my own curiosity I'd want to know how old she is and what kind of parent is letting her buy a goat, put it in a 6'x6' pen alone, having done minimal research, when their dog just had puppies! Furthermore, it sounds like this family isn't smart with their animals if they bred their dogs and expect a child to prevent the puppies from injuring other animals. They sound like irresponsible backyard breeders who can't afford their kid's latest pet. 

Can you imagine if you did sell a pair to her and she had the doe bred? If she wants to keep a goat and only has a 6'x6' pen, what would it look like with 3 or more goats? My goats have a shelter bigger than that!

Sorry, getting too worked up. I feel the need to send a prayer with every animal that leaves my home and every one I see on CL, FB, and breeders' websites that they are going to good, safe, loving homes and not fall to trickery, deceit, and foolish owners. I think you're doing the right thing by not selling to her and I applaud you for refusing to sell to inappropriate homes.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Jessica, I am in no way offended that she asked me to lower the price a bit (even though she asked more than once), I just thought I'd throw that in there. I've done the same thing a few times if a goat I'm interested in is slightly over what I can afford.  I've also lowered the price for some buyers if I think the goat/cow is going to a very good home.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Of no! I kinda went on a little rant not totally all at you. I totally understand even though that was something you were willing to work with (money) it was still another check on the "oh come on" list. A lot of people do get upset and on that i don't really understsnd.......although I just had to calm a friend down a few days ago because one last flat out told her the doelings she had for sale wasn't worth her asking price and on that, and the hounding, I find super rude!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I talked to my mom about it, and she doesn't think it would be a good fit either. But this girl is very persistent. I already told her no before, but she keeps coming back.

She asked this morning if a sheep would be fine as a companion, and I said that a goat would be much better. And before that I had told her plainly that I didn't want to sell her a goat alone (meaning without one of MY other goats)! Period!
This is what she wrote back, "We would just love to get her doeling. I have prepared her stall already and my sheep needs another friend other than the horse. think about it you will make our family so happy and other animals too."

Since I've already told her once that I don't want to sell her a doeling anymore, how should I make this final decision clear to her?! No way am I going to sell her one of my kids now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.

I would tell her you changed your mind on selling her at this time. But if you do change your mind, you will keep her in mind.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

You can simply not reply.
Or you can say something like... After lengthy consideration, I do not think my goats would be compatible with your situation. 
Or the straight forward ... Sorry, the goats are no longer available.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

Say something polite but final like "I'm sorry this isn't going to work out <anything else you want to say>" then stop replying and maybe block her on Facebook? It sounds like she's got a lot of animals on her plate.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

This is what I said - "I'm sorry but this isn't going to work out. As a seller I have the right to refuse a sale, and I just don't think this will be a good fit. Thank you so much for your interest!"


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

And thank you everyone so much for the help!!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Well she still doesn't get it. She's not being rude, just keeps giving me reasons why I should sell her a goat or two. I just told her again (for the third or fourth time today), that I am sticking with my decision. 

Man, selling goats is not a fun business!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

It sounds like she is under age. If she continues to persist just contact her parents with your firm no.
Do they even know?


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

I would block her number and Facebook profile. In my opinion, repeatedly asking a question which has already been answered with a "no" is rude, even if the person asks politely.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yep, she keeps telling me that she'd be soooooooooooo happy if I said yes. 
I'll let her know (NO) again tomorrow and if she persists I'll block her. I'm tired of it. 
She just can't take no for an answer!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

nancy d said:


> It sounds like she is under age. If she continues to persist just contact her parents with your firm no.
> Do they even know?


I'm not sure. I'll see about that tomorrow, thanks.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I wouldn’t even respond any more. You actually replied more then I would have and explained many times why your answer is a no. Persistent is a nice word for it but she is being pushy and I wouldn’t waste my time with her any more. I know it’s hard to be firm and not come across as a really mean person but your last reply was perfect and I would leave it at that.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

I wouldn’t sell any livestock to her. She sounds like an animal hoarder. Next time she calls, tell her you need her address so you can “evaluate” to make sure the goat is properly housed/protected. Hopefully she doesn’t use a false address or someone’s elses’s but, even so, unless I know the person I’m selling to, I deliver my babies, for that very reason.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with everyone.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

How you respond now (or if you do) is entirely your own business, and every action you take now is the correct one (except for selling her a doeling, of course)

One action that comes to mind, since you did like her at first and she asked intelligent questions, is to ask for a home visit so that you can evaluate her set up for her future goats. Go, evaluate, ask her to come to your place so that she can see for herself what is considered an excellent goat home. My hope would be that some kind but authoritative education would turn her into the kind of future buyer all would be happy to sell to. But that a flat out "No" would send her to an auction, where she could indeed get a cheap doeling, and she could be responsible for a tragedy.

You are doing right no matter what you decide to do. Online info is great, but online info is also horrific, and she'll probably (left with no firm guidance) choose to believe the stuff that would make her feel comfortable about herself and her decisions.

Look at the reason she keeps giving you. Not, "No, I would provide a great home because....(insert real reason here)" Instead, "You should sell to me because it would please me" This isn't someone who will wrestle with the challenges of putting an animal first.

Anyway, this is an option not yet on your table. I would not do it myself. Nor would I just refuse to sell. I would be telling her exactly why my goat would be unhappy, and therefore why I won't sell, and why no one should sell to her until she has a better situation. But you are, well, better than I am.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The other problem with selling to children are their parents. The parents can be as bad or worse when it comes to the care of an animal. So I would want to know the parents philosophy and how they care for their animals as well.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I haven't just been giving her a flat out "no" (is that good or bad?!). And because she asked me, I explained why I didn't want to sell instead of just leaving it at a "no". Then she gave me reasons why I should sell and was, for the most part, being pushy. She also asked why I didn't believe in her, and said she is starting to not believe in herself. ??? 
It sounded as if she had never been refused something before. 
My parents try to make our lives as unfair as possible because, as my Mom says quite frankly, life is unfair. 

Anyway, again I told her something very close to what I said before about "this isn't going to work out...etc", and I told her I had reached my final decision. 
I had been speaking to her about proper goat care, because while it isn't in my power to stop her from buying another person's goat, I can educate her a little on how to best take care of them. Honestly, getting into goats I was blind to all their needs - I had a couple of my own dairy cows, how could goats be much different? (I did not know until 1.5 years after owning goats that they are very susceptible to parasites, that they need their hooves trimmed, loose minerals, etc)

I think she is just ignorant. I did tell her that it wasn't great business for a buyer to keep insisting on a sale after the seller had refused. She apologized and I think we came to an understanding. (YAAAAY!!) I told her that if she has any questions whatsoever, to not hesitate to ask me.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow, sounds like a very immature young lady. Any idea how old she is? I would say no as well. But I definitely like the idea of mentoring her if she is interested in learning and coming to see what a goat farm is like, meeting her parents and helping them understand the needs of goats (like the fact goats need to have a goat buddy!).

I will no longer sell does to people who don't have other goats. Been down this road before. So I too would say no, sorry but it's not going to happen. 
Now if the person wants to be mentored, and learn, and parents are willing to be involved maybe I'd change my mind when I felt they were ready to move forward. 
I am all for helping kids and getting kids involved in goats.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Well, while I was talking with her I told her that I got my first (dairy) goat at 13 (I forgot why I was mentioning that... and come to think of it, I was actually 12). She replied with something like "if you could do it at 13 then so can I". So she's maybe 13, possibly younger.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Goat_Scout said:


> Well, while I was talking with her I told her that I got my first (dairy) goat at 13 (I forgot why I was mentioning that... and come to think of it, I was actually 12). She replied with something like "if you could do it at 13 then so can I". So she's maybe 13, possibly younger.


Yeah, 13 year old I doubt would understand being pushy, impatient, etc. I have an 11 year old and can imagine how notorious she would be lol. If you really like the girl and want to help, you could ask to speak to her parents. If she hesitates or makes up a story and you don't get a phone number to converse with them, then I would probably just walk away from any kind of deal all together. If she has questions about care/etc. you can always answer those and hope she puts your advice to good use.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

This thread certainly made me think about how I will sell my next babies. I don't think I'll be selling to anyone under 18 without speaking to a parent or guardian. And no selling singles unless they already have goats. Typically I think home visits are a _little_ extreme but the way this situation reads, I'd consider it. Maybe just if there are red flags.

Thanks for posting your experience.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think the home visit was only to get the girl to realize how serious this was to the buyer.

I did have a seller insist on delivering because she wanted to see the set up. I don't know if she was that way all the time or if I had raised red flags. I was fine with it though.


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## cbrossard (Oct 4, 2014)

Goat Scout, it sounds to me like you handled a difficult situation very well. I hope that she will seek your advice if/when she does get a goat(s). One of the hardest parts about goat breeding is trying to make sure all of your babies go to excellent homes! Good job!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.


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## Keepsake (Apr 8, 2017)

Sounds like she wanted it to maybe be a house goat, like her dogs? I have heard of people doing this with goats... I of course did it with my first goat when he was a baby but I was eventually going to bring him out and keep him in the outside pens.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I actually follow a couple online that keeps a goat in their RV (and a dog) and they travel around. He looks well taken care of and not lonely. I can't figure out how it works but it looks pretty fun. So maybe in super rare instances like that, 1 goat isn't a big deal? 

I do think you handled it well. I wouldn't have felt comfortable sending mine away in that situation either.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Jubillee said:


> I actually follow a couple online that keeps a goat in their RV (and a dog) and they travel around. He looks well taken care of and not lonely. I can't figure out how it works but it looks pretty fun. So maybe in super rare instances like that, 1 goat isn't a big deal?


I think a bottle baby that's with human all the time would be fine.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Jubillee said:


> So maybe in... instances like that, 1 goat isn't a big deal?


It is always possible that a goat is the one in a hundred that will do well alone, or that this family is the one in a hundred that will be able to fulfill companionship needs. You are totally right (and that couple you follow sound so cool, love to learn about it).

As sellers, though, do we cast our die on the side of the one (as a matter of course) or on the side of the 99 (as a matter of course)?

Especially in the case of an inexperienced kid, I'm betting on the 99.

Grapple, Grapple.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm totally serious about wanting to know more about that couple. A goat, dog, and maybe my husband, in an RV sounds like a GREAT compromise. I have to bring my cat though. And NO OXEN! Not in an RV...


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Jubillee said:


> I actually follow a couple online that keeps a goat in their RV (and a dog) and they travel around. He looks well taken care of and not lonely. I can't figure out how it works but it looks pretty fun. So maybe in super rare instances like that, 1 goat isn't a big deal?


I think @mariarose pretty much nailed it.  Although...

I would never know whether or not my doeling would be one of those rare goats that does just fine by herself. And I would always be thinking about it, too.
I can see how a bottle baby might do a little better alone, but I don't sell bottle kids (and probably never will unless a doe has triplets or more and can't take care of them - and then only MAYBE) and this girl didn't want one at the time anyway, she just wanted a weaned one.
So if I had decided to sell her a dam-raised doeling, think about it - she (doeling) would go from being with her mom (and maybe a sibling) and as 5-6 other does + _their_ kids, to a completely different home that has no goats at all.  So that is why, to be on the safe side, if a potential buyer doesn't already have a goat, they must by in pairs or more.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No one here is doubting or second guessing you here, @Goat_Scout. This is philosophical what-if ing. You handled this with grace and aplomb.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

mariarose said:


> No one here is doubting or second guessing you here, @Goat_Scout. This is philosophical what-if ing. You handled this with grace and aplomb.


I didn't take it that way - just wanted to explain a little more.  And thanks, you are too kind!!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I guess I should give an update to the participants in this thread....

I have kept in touch with the girl, she has been asking questions lately and I am happy to answer them for her! She keeps posting in multiple FB groups (multiple times in the same group too) that she is looking to buy either a pregnant Nubian doe or a doeling, preferably a bottle kid. She originally told me that she didn't have the money or setup to have a goat until April, I don't know what has changed? She also did just tell me that she just can't wait until then... but that is none of my affair. 

And now she also asked on FB if anyone has Fainting goats. And, she now doesn't care about disease testing (we had a conversation about it) - she just wants a goat, and soon.  I am pretty bummed about that for some reason. 

OK, has anyone ever heard of a sale barn that doesn't let any goats in unless owners have papers proving their goats are tested for diseases (Johnes, CAE, CL)? And where vets check each one individually for sickness before a sale? She told me that she might just get a goat at an auction, and I warned her about diseases and such and that is what she came back with. I don't really know what to think about it other than it sounds like a dream, lol! She told me the name of the auction and I looked it up - they seem to have cows, pigs and other livestock run through it, and it definitely doesn't seem like a private auction.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

You should get in touch with her parents


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

That's really nice that you are trying to mentor her--I'm sure it will help what ever goat she eventually gets to have a better life--if only slightly. Sounds like you are going above & beyond for her & I'm sure it will have some good influence somewhere in her life, to have an adult take interest in her & offer their time like you are doing.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I understand your let down. Somehow I could have predicted her ending up at an auction. I'm sorry, but you've done great.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

And the answer to your question is , "No, I've never heard of such an auction house"


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I'm totally serious about wanting to know more about that couple. A goat, dog, and maybe my husband, in an RV sounds like a GREAT compromise. I have to bring my cat though. And NO OXEN! Not in an RV...


I have only found them on facebook, but they take beautiful photos, paint, travel, and Frankie the goat is adorable. They hike with her to and take her pic in the various places they go. It looks like so much fun. I want to figure out how they do it as far as goats potty habits and such as I would miss my goats so much if we ever chose to do that lol. https://www.facebook.com/argosyodyssey/


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

Keepsake said:


> Sounds like she wanted it to maybe be a house goat, like her dogs? I have heard of people doing this with goats... I of course did it with my first goat when he was a baby but I was eventually going to bring him out and keep him in the outside pens.


I did the same thing with Max. At the time, we were waiting for his sister to wean and he was a bottle baby so he was the only goat we had for 2 months. We potty trained him, he slept in my bed with me, and he was with me almost 24/7. I had just quit my job and planned to take the summer off before going back to college so my schedule allowed me to spend so much time with him. My outing were limited to farmer's markets, pet stores, feed stores, and parks so he could come with me. I was invited camping by my sister's and I said "not if Max can't come, I have to feed him 3x a day" and we laughed it off but then actually took him camping . Of course he was overjoyed to have another goat to play with and they've been outside ever since.

Sorry to hear she's going to an auction, OP, but I hope she keeps coming to you or someone similarly proficient for advice.


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