# Critique for these NDs?



## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

Just wanted to know if I'm on par with my critiques....Since all I know is what I'm reading online. Here are the two mamas we're looking to buy a couple doelings from, and the sire.


That is, if I can figure out how to add the pictures... :GAAH:



Okay, I think it worked. The first pic we'll call doe #1. She has a super sweet temperament, very gentle. She was my favorite as far as her personality goes. Her teats seem small to me, and I know that you can't see very well but her attachment seems low, I think. (Is that the right way to put it?) Her head also seems large to me, but maybe that's normal? She doesn't look as "dairy" as the second doe to me, but still adorable in my opinion. Her teats seem well placed imo but idk what I'm talking about. :shrug:


Doe #2 has a longer body and is probably better confirmation wise. She's larger than doe #1 and seemed really impressive and beautiful. However, she is, in the breeder's words, "naughty". I'm not sure if that would pass onto her kids?

Both does were first fresheners this year so we'll be buying from their second pregnancies.


The third picture is the sire, and to be honest I have no idea what I'm looking for with him. Idk if anyone can tell me anything over that picture since he's so shaggy, I can try to dig around for a picture of his dam though. 


Thanks in advance for any insight! To be honest I just really loved Doe #1 and wanted to know if I'm right in thinking that she *shouldn't* be my #1 choice even though she is. :lol:


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I love doe number 1. She's built alot like our very productive Nigey - except the doe you pictured has much better attachments than our girl. This year we tried breeding Annika to a buck from a smaller, more dairy built line to help correct her slightly stocky build. One of her doe kids is much more feminine looking and the other is built more like she is. I'll see how that pans out in the judges opinions over the next few months at local fairs.

The buck look nice, but a little short bodied. It would be easier to critique him and the second doe if they were side posed with their heads up.


Regarding the second doe: I LOVE her spots, but as far as I'm concerned, a Nigerian with a good personality is worth 3 Nigerians with bad attitudes. I'm just sayin'...


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

groovyoldlady said:


> I love doe number 1. She's built alot like our very productive Nigey - except the doe you pictured has much better attachments than our girl. This year we tried breeding Annika to a buck from a smaller, more dairy built line to help correct her slightly stocky build. One of her doe kids is much more feminine looking and the other is built more like she is. I'll see how that pans out in the judges opinions over the next few months at local fairs.
> 
> The buck look nice, but a little short bodied. It would be easier to critique him and the second doe if they were side posed with their heads up.
> 
> Regarding the second doe: I LOVE her spots, but as far as I'm concerned, a Nigerian with a good personality is worth 3 Nigerians with bad attitudes. I'm just sayin'...


Thank you!

Please update me on how your girls do at the fair! Both of these mamas will be in the state fair in October so I'm anxious to see how they do. They'll be bred for December/January.

I couldn't find a picture of the sire's dam's udders, but did find her titles. Show Wins: 1 Best in Show Junior Doe, 1 GCH Jr Doe 3 RGCH Junior Doe. I pretty much know nothing about titles though so I don't even know if that is impressive or not. :lol:

Doe #1's dam's titles are 1 Best in Show Senior Doe, 1 Best of Breed, 3GCH, 3 RGCH.

I'm figuring the more the better I guess?


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm not one to offer a critique, but will say that doe #1 does have a broader muzzle than many NDs which is good. A wider muzzle is good for scooping up all that food they need!
Wins on does as seniors are a better better indication of the quality because it includes the udder and, as a mature doe, you know how she turned out.

P.S. I'd definitely go with #1. She's a nice doe, and as others said, temperament does count for a lot. It IS a roll of the dice, but if you start with a good tempered doe and breed to a good tempered buck, you are much more likely to get good tempered kids.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

If I was shopping for does, I'd buy #1, because of her good temperament. And her body style isn't "wrong", it's just a variant within the breed, imo. Her udder and attachments don't look any worse, but probably better, than the other doe's, and though they may not be A-1, they're not awful, either--just "average"--again, my opinion. If your instinct says #1, go with your gut. 

Now, a couple of caveats--next year's kids might all be bucks! And, temperament doesn't necessarily follow the dam's, either for good or for ill. I had twins out of a bully; one doeling was also a bully, but the one that I kept, is sweet. And, the same buck bred to different does, will accomplish different things--case in point, last year my chunky, awkward looking doe produced a gorgeous daughter with an improved udder; whereas the elegant doe, bred to the same buck, produced an overly refined doe with a worse udder than her dam. We can do all the calculations we want to, but in the end, there's still that roll of the dice.


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

Goat_in_Himmel said:


> If I was shopping for does, I'd buy #1, because of her good temperament. And her body style isn't "wrong", it's just a variant within the breed, imo. Her udder and attachments don't look any worse, but probably better, than the other doe's, and though they may not be A-1, they're not awful, either--just "average"--again, my opinion. If your instinct says #1, go with your gut.
> 
> Now, a couple of caveats--next year's kids might all be bucks! And, temperament doesn't necessarily follow the dam's, either for good or for ill. I had twins out of a bully; one doeling was also a bully, but the one that I kept, is sweet. And, the same buck bred to different does, will accomplish different things--case in point, last year my chunky, awkward looking doe produced a gorgeous daughter with an improved udder; whereas the elegant doe, bred to the same buck, produced an overly refined doe with a worse udder than her dam. We can do all the calculations we want to, but in the end, there's still that roll of the dice.


Is there a way to really know what confirmation will be like in a newborn? I feel like I can't tell a difference between one baby to another, other than color. I kinda figured it was just a matter of attempting to find the best potentially parents and crossing your fingers!

The breeder does have other does that will be bred as well, but while all of them are registered and I did like a couple of her other does especially well, these two are the ones that she told me showed the most promise. She had one doe that was very small and had amazing udders, and milking her was easy and enjoyable, but she said that she walked a little funny and they discovered she likely had brain trauma as a baby so I was going to stay away from her babies just in case it was genetic. I also thought it'd be better to not have such a tiny doe when it came to kidding.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

If there's a way to tell a newborn's conformation, beyond colouring and having the right number of heads, legs, etc., I'm afraid you're asking the wrong person to tell what it might be, lol!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Beautiful , adorable and gorgeous are my critiques


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Who are these goats? They all look nice. Love the does.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

They are very nice does!
And Doe #1 is a Permanent Champion


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

KW Farms said:


> Who are these goats? They all look nice. Love the does.


They're from a breeder in Arkansas. I'm not buying the does, but I have reserved any doelings they might have! Lord willing we'll get at least one girl out of doe #1. 

Thank you all for your input!! I'm glad y'all like doe #1, that makes me feel much more comfortable with her as my top choice!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Do they have a website? What's the herd name?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> Do they have a website? What's the herd name?


Hey Kylee , where are those pictures ?


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

KW Farms said:


> Do they have a website? What's the herd name?


She has a Facebook page but it's not updated often. Is it okay for me to share it? If not, let me know and I'll edit to remove. It's Cadron Creek Nigerian Dwarf Goats. Check it out and let me know what you think, she is the first goat farm I've visited but they all look very healthy and every single goat she has is personable and friendly. She has been really helpful.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Yes, it's okay to share.  I'll have to look her up.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

groovyoldlady said:


> It would be easier to critique him and the second doe if they were side posed with their heads up.
> 
> ....but as far as I'm concerned, a Nigerian with a good personality is worth 3 Nigerians with bad attitudes. I'm just sayin'...


Agreed, would be easier to critique doe #2 and the buck if they were set up. And yes, personality goes for a LOT!



glndg said:


> I'm not one to offer a critique, but will say that doe #1 does have a broader muzzle than many NDs which is good. A wider muzzle is good for scooping up all that food they need!
> Wins on does as seniors are a better better indication of the quality because it includes the udder and, as a mature doe, you know how she turned out.


A broad muzzle is important, especially in productive does. and agree with last bit on Wins on doe as seniors 



jmez61690 said:


> Is there a way to really know what confirmation will be like in a newborn?


Sure is! you can tell when they're young who has a longer body, good legs, well proportioned legs, strong body, etc.


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Agreed, would be easier to critique doe #2 and the buck if they were set up. And yes, personality goes for a LOT!
> 
> A broad muzzle is important, especially in productive does. and agree with last bit on Wins on doe as seniors
> 
> Sure is! you can tell when they're young who has a longer body, good legs, well proportioned legs, strong body, etc.


Okay, thanks!! I'll be going to the fair to watch them compete and will also post pics of the babies set up once they're born so y'all can help me pick! I'm so excited, this winter can't come soon enough!


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