# What's Up with Our Goats? (Pic Heavy)



## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

I hope I posted this in the right section.  Not sure what is going on here, but our goats (one in particular) are starting to look pretty "fat." Not sure if it is really fat though. We do worm them every month, trim their hooves, etc. We have not yet given them their CD/T this year; NEED TO DO THAT! This past Sunday we dusted them for mites. Any ideas here? They are all acting normal and have pink gums.

Moswen (Boer mix, 2 yrs.):


















Joey (Boer mix, 2 yrs.):


























Thanks for the help!

The Snyders


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

The pictures did not show and the links are not working :shrug:


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## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

Sorry I made them italicized instead of using the image tags! Silly me! LOL! Sorry once again, I fixed it now.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

um not seeing what you think is wrong....they are boer mixes so they will have a little chunk to them.


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## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

I don't know. I was just wondering what you guys thought. The one (Joey) just seems a bit thinner than Moswen.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How much grain are you feeding? And what kind of hay?

Have they been exposed to a buck or next to a fence where a buck may be? 
Has the doe ever kidded before?

Worming every month ,may not be a good idea...it concerns me....... that giving it that 
often... may make your goats immuned to the wormers...... :hug:


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

seem normal to me.
boer do have a bit of 'chunk'


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I have to agree with Pam. I think you are OVER WORMING them. Are you doing a fecal float on them before you worm them? What types of worms are you trying to get of? 

I have only dewormed my goats 3 times in the the 9 years of having them. If they do not have a problem and you are deworming that much, then you will have a real problem when you try to really get rid of them. The worms will become immune to the dewormer. That is why so many dewormers are not working on goats anymore.


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## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

Neither have kidded before. We switch between two wormers, one one month and the other the other month. There are three feed buckets (we also have a pygmy) and each bucket gets a heaping cup of Dumor Goat feed. They also get a grass hay and they have a salt block. They always have fresh water. Our neighbors have a Nubian buck, but he appears to be a wether; although we have never asked the neighbors. Other than that though there are no other goats. We use Safeguard liquid wormer and IVESCO Goat Dewormer Concentrate. Whenever the vet does a fecal he tells us they have too many worms, but they never have any symptoms of worm problems. I guess we don't need to worm them unless we have trouble with them then.? Thanks for all the replies!


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

When the vet says "too many" is he giving you a number? cause goats always have some.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yep, you are woming too often & you will run into resistant problems alot sooner than those of us who only worm a couple times of year.
According to Dr David Pugh (Langston U if I rmember right) the best way besides worming individually on an as needed basis is to use only one class of wormers till it doesnt work anymore, then switch. 
Now to see if your Boers are too fat you will have to try & grab a chunk of fat behind the elbow. If you cant they are fine. Another is if the tail is squishy. You should not have trouble feeling ribs either.
We have Boers & theres a couple of real tubs out there!! Yours dont LOOK fat but you will have to feel for yourself. 
My gosh did they take these pics themselves & post them?
"Do I look fat?"
"Is my butt to big?"
(just giving you a bad time)


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## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

So how often should I be worming them then?


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## sealawyer (May 31, 2009)

Please stop using safeguard, you might as well give them a big drencher full of water. Chronic worm problems will cause goats to run on the thin side. We raise OVER 90 Boers and Boer X goats in the worm capitol of the world, Freestone Co., Texas. We use the FAMACHA system to check our goats and ONLY WORM THEM WHEN WE NEED TO! Go to a FAMACHA class and stop worming the goats monthly. Go to www.scsrpc.org to learn more about FAMACHA and the proper way to maintain your herd. If you worm monthly, all you are doing is making the worms stronger and resistant to the wormer you are using. We presently are using cydectin injectable at a rate of 1 cc per 50 pounds of goat, orally. We have found that it is easier to give the wormer orally cuz the amount is so small and the goats hardly notice it when you give it.
Let me repeat please, and take heed!
STOP WORMING MONTHLY. LEARN HOW TO FAMACHA CHECK! ONCE YOU HAVE LEARNED HOW TO FAMACHA CHECK, ONLY WORM THE GOATS WHEN THEY NEED WORMER, THIS WILL PREVENT WORM RESISTANCE TO THE WORMER YOU ARE USING. USE A WORMER, THEN FECAL TEST, IF IT AIN'T WORKING, THEN MOVE ON TO ANOTHER WORMER. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THEN PLEASE E-MAIL ME AND I WILL TRY TO HELP AS I HAVE DEALT WITH THIS FOR YEARS AND TRY TO STAY UP ON THE LATEST INFO IN THE WORM FIGHT!
There, I'm gonna get off of my soapbox now and go sit in the corner!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

What we do need to remember guys, is that worming needs are different in every different location, in terms of both frequency and product efficiency. 

I only worm twice a year, in a really wet year I go three times a year. But I have a friend about 10 hrs away on the coast, who has to worm every month. 

Same with the product, Panacur (white benzimidazole drench) does not work on 90% of NSW properties, but it works okay for my goats. 

Snyder - they look healthy to me! 

But I'd suggest cutting back the worming just as an experiment - see what happens, and if you start to have problems, you can always increase it 

Also, for those wondering about resistance, alternating monthly isnt much good, neither is using a drench until it doesnt work anymore, then changing! Your best bet is to rotate drenches yearly - simple, straightforward, and effective.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I am with Keren on this. Especially since the you have had fecals done and the vet says they are loaded with worms. You are doing only what you can to break the cycle of the worms but I would go one step further on this.

Have a fecal done before your next worming schedule. Then worm them according to what worms they have. 7-10 days later worm again, this catches the second "set" of worms that hatch from the eggs laid before. Then have their fecal checked. This will let you know if your wormer is working. If it works then you know that wormer is effective in your area.

Safeguard is still effective in many areas against tapeworms. But I wouldnt recomend it for a general wormer. Ivermectin still works for me..........other places it isnt effective at all. So you have to find what works.

It is a process but once you know what does work you will be greatful because you will be treating effectively and the vet will finaly tell you "its a clean fecal" 

The Eyelid color does work sometimes but a bad case of Cocci or a goat who has recently kidded can be paler but not have worms. So the best thing is to get the fecal done.

Reminds me I really need to do my goats! -- maybe I will do that tonight


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

They look like healthy goats to me?? :shrug: But yeah, agree w/ other posts about the deworming.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Have a fecal done before your next worming schedule. Then worm them according to what worms they have 10 days later worm again, this catches the second "set" of worms that hatch from the eggs laid before. Then have their fecal checked. This will let you know if your wormer is working. If it works then you know that wormer is effective in your area.


 I agree with Stacey....worming then doing it again 10 days later... will get the hatching eggs.....With monthly worming... it seems as if... you are never breaking the cycle....if you try the 10 days later method....let us know... how it goes after treatment .....it may finally stop the cycle and get things under control.. :wink: good luck


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Yep, I agree with Stacey too. I repeat wormings in 10 days here, for that exact reason. Also, I'm in Ohio, in the NW corner, and Ivermectin is still working for me. 

But she definitely hit the nail on the head about having the fecal done again after the 2nd worming. If your wormer isn't working, then your throwing your money away on it, so the follow-up fecal will definitely help you to find out if that's the case or not.


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## DebianDog (Aug 9, 2009)

Yes Safeguard is one of the most ineffective ones (most resistance) you can use according to a study done at the University of North Carolina. Can't find the study online but it memorable to be because the Safegaurd rep was there and the speaker apologized when he brought up the test results. I do remember the study was done with fecal sample from around the US, Vigin Islands, and Porto Rico. Cydectin had the best results.

The speaker also said the reason Safeguard had the most resistance was because it was used so effectively for so long. Nature adapts is the lesson there I guess.

He also suggested alternating your de-wormers and de-worming ONLY when necessary (not on a schedule) as you can never totally eliminate the worms only keep them in check.


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

You need to worm as needed. By checking stool and eyes you will learn when it is time.

I am not sure I saw you state what you use to worm and how you are giving, amounts etc. That will help.


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## FourSnyders (Mar 29, 2009)

We have been giving SafeGuard and Mortel Tartrate (the kind you get from TSC). We are in Ohio. We have been alternating between the two every month. We give the recommended dose on the package directions and double that. Our goats have never been acting unusual or anything. They went to the vet a couple weeks ago and she said that looked completely healthy. She actually recommended worming every month and she has had goats. The lady we got our goats from who has raised them for many years also said to worm them every month and double the dose that the package says. The vet also ran a fecal. She never gave us a worm count or anything, just recommended we use Ivomec at 1 cc/110 lbs. at the next rotation.


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## AlecBGreen (Jul 7, 2009)

FourSnyders said:


> The lady we got our goats from who has raised them for many years also said to worm them every month and double the dose that the package says.


I dont want to sound harsh, but dont listen to the "experts" all the time b/c they arent always right. Science and our understanding change all the time and we have to keep current with the research being done. I recommend reading this: http://www.scsrpc.org/SCSRPC/Publications/part1.htm Its long but I learned so much from it. I think it is really helpful to new goat ranchers and old timers too! Hope it helps


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