# Banding infection. BAD :(



## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

My boys were banded with an elastrator. They were at a goat sitters for 10 days and now that they are home I noticed Whiskey acting off (standing alone, staring into space).

Tonight I noticed a discusting infection where he was banded. The spot between the testicles and his body is white and creamy and the area around it (on his body) is pink and hard to the touch.

It is late here so I sprayed him with Red Kote for now. What can I do? I have injectable penicillin and a bunch of other stuff on hand but I dont know what I should do


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Poor guy  . Flush out the wound with diluted iodine or similar, making sure to clean out all the gunk. The puss needs to be removed so he can heal. How does the band look? 

Does he have a fever? I'd start antibiotics, along with banamine for pain. Is he eating and drinking? B complex will also help him. Has he had CD/T shots?

Hopefully others can give you more advice...


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I wonder if removing the band would be a good or bad idea?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Man, this seems like a darned if you do darned if you don't situation. 

I agree, I would really get in there and clean out all that puss. No matter how gross or painful it might seem. I'd also put in a call to a vet asking if I should leave the band or not. I think it's worth the weekend consultation phone fee. 

If a vet refused to give me an answer, i'd leave the band and watch and wait. Keeping an eye on temp, administering antibiotics and keeping it very clean.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Bad, very bad. Removing the band will allow bacteria from the dying testicles into his bloodstream giving him Sepsis.

I would start him on Pen G 1 cc per 20 lbs. twice a day, clean the area with surgical scrub from the drug store. I think you'll want Blue Kote rather than Red Kote. The Blue dries and the Red moisturizes.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

What about cutting below the band? I would think that would help it drain all the puss and nasty out (???) 


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

First off, when was the banding done and how dry does it look? If it is all dead and dry, it will be OK to cut off, but you must be sure of this.
I agree to get all pus you can out and start antibiotics. Get a temp.


I really would take him to the vet. They can determine what the best route would be. Right now, with him sick and bad infection toxins are getting into his blood stream. I am concerned for him.


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Called the vet waiting for a call back. Cleaned it with alcohol. Banded June 27


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Poor thing


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh that is bad  poor guy


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Just gave him penicillin. Banamine is next...I have B Complex but have never given it before. How much do I give? At least he is still eating. Trying to find my thermometer


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Temp is 40.5 C (104.9 F) from what I have read it looks like 1 cc of B complex for a 50 lb goat. Is that correct?


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

You can't overdo B complex. He'll pee out the rest. I'd give 3ccs to start


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks everyone  how did farmers manage before the internet?! ;-) spoke with the vet, he said just keep doing what I'm doing and use peroxide on the wound. Here is a photo of whiskey vs his brother jack . What a difference!


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

OMG! Did you do the banding yourself? Neither of those look OK by any means, and I am not sure why that would be happening. They both look infected. I would put them both on antibiotics immediately. DId the wrong size bands get used? Did they not get cleaned off well before the banding, and did any antiseptic spray get used after the banding?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree..both still look infected...I would Get them both tetanus antitoxin shot asap....I would also use CD antitoxin to rid body of building toxins....Def. Antibiotics...as suggested...Stop Peroxide and use Blukote..


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Oh yeah, peroxide is maybe a one time use thing. Its VERY caustic and will make more dead flesh for the bacteria to feed on. I would def. get them both into the vet tomorrow though. Its good they are both still eating!

Looking at the pictures again, did someone try to cut them off? I would be having a very serious talk with the "goat sitter" about this.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh my gosh, painful! You could flush the wounds with warm Epsom salt water, which is supposed to bring the infection out. I agree that a vet is needed at this point.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh dear, after seeing the pics, a vet is a good idea. If the vet you talked to didn't see pics or the goat, I would bring it to their attention. Having a fever is not good.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Im agree they both are infected  so I would suggest working on the other guy as well. I agree about having a vet SEE what is going on but not really sure what can be done about it that you can't do your self. I would also be touching with the warm very warm epsom salt. 
Above the band see how swollen it is? Get your hand up in there on the out side and squeeze it down to see if you can get any puss out. It looks like there is a good amount in there. I'm so sorry your going threw this but still eating is such a good sign.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Both are infected. Both need to see a vet. I'm all about doing as much as I can at home. I'll put off going to the vet until I can't. But in this case? I'd be at the vet.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Oh my. Definitely need vet attention. Those are both infected. The scrotum should just shrink up and get hard, not change color or have that pink hue to the skin around it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its good you caught this...since they are still eating and drinking they have a great chance on recovery...please keep us posted and let us know what the vet says...

best wishes..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

any news??


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Jack lost his testicles. There is a circular red wound but it looks ok (besides being raw). Whiskey looks a lot better (we really cleaned out the puss last night despite his crying poor guy).After we cleaned them up we coated the area with antibiotic cream. I am giving them both Penicillin and also giving Whiskey Banamine and B Complex, luckily 25 gauge needles work so the shots aren't too painful for them but they are scared of me now and with my partner away for the day I was unable to put more antibiotic cream on this morning or take Whiskeys temp (they dont like the needles but they REALLY fight if I try to go near their boys). 

I left another message with the vet. Hopefully he can swing by today.

We did the banding ourselves but I don,t know what went wrong. We cleaned the area, used the elastrator as instructed by our breeder and selected the bands that are for goats (green and brand new). We sprayed them with anti biotic spray for a bit after but everything seemed fine. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The goat sitter did not try to remove it but they were in with some bigger goats...maybe it got yanked during play?

Thank you for your help everyone


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

PS what and how much should I feed them to help their tummys out with good bacteria while they are on the antibiotics?


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

You can get probiotics in a tube for them the instructions are on the tube I got mine at tractor supply. Be sure they have lots of forage and grass hay for their rumen.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Did you borrow someone else's elastrator? I've heard that you're supposed to disinfect it, to kill off any bacteria from previous uses. 

Probios is the stuff in a tube, you'll find it at tractor supply.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Also, if the band is tight up against the tummy, it gives it a better chance for infection. I put my bands closer to the testicles than the tummy this year and had better results than last year when they were closer to the abdomen.
No infections at all, no swelling of the area...


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Did you soak the bands for 3 minutes in rubbing alcohol, and wipe the elastrator with alcohol in-between each one? I too always put mine just above the testicles, not flush with the stomach. 

When my goats are injured or just feeling vulnerable in general (like when the does are heavily pregnant) they for sure get a lot more timid. I wouldnt worry about them hating you, they are just hurting and as they heal up, they will get back to their friendly selves.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

What I don't get is how it got so bad so fast. And on 2 of them. You all are gonna shake your heads at me and yeah I admit it probably is bad but I do nothing for my boys. I walk out catch them put the band on and set them free. I only started banding probably close to 2 years now on the goats and a year with the calfs and have yet to have any infected. Maybe it was placed to high up. I also place the bands just above their balls because I'm always worried I will snag part of their guts or something. Maybe with being high up dirt and poo and nasty settles in between their stomach and the band. I really have no idea just thinking for you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds like you disinfected the area prior, which was the right thing to do.
I don't take a lot of time soaking the bands. I clean the area and put the band on. Then check it once in a while.
I also don't put it really close to the belly.

We can't blame you for something going wrong, things happen and sometimes we have no answers. Yes, poo, dirt or somewhere they lay, can start infection.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...sometimes things happen besides our best efforts, sounds like you cleaned well.....I always give Tetanus antitoxin prior to banding or disbudding..Period...you can do 100's of jobs with no problem then BAM that one ( or in this case 2) you have infection or tetanus..tetanus shot is cheap at about $4 a bottle ..I wont risk doing the job without it. 
We spray the area with iodine, we spray the band, clean the bander...pop it on, give another squirt of iodine and let them go... never had any issues...also not too close to tummy, check for teats to be out of the way and no hair pulling...keep a close eye on it until they fall off
I have only given banamine once and the ram was a huge baby...all others went on with out it..


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Thank you everyone. The Vet came and although Whiskey was sure he was going to die (and certainly let our neighbors know how he felt, what lungs!!) he is ok. The vet cut off what was left of his testicles and cleaned it out again. He also got some Banamine and Penicillin and...treatment on the house - what a great vet. I will post a photo of his improvement next time I am down there so you an see how much better he feels. And next year the band is not going to be up against the body! Thanks again


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

Wow where are vets like that when I need them! You have a keeper there I'd say.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

So glad the vet was so kind! How wonderful that your boys are OK. Now you deserve a hug! :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your welcome.

What an awesome vet, keeper for sure. 

Yes, I do give tetanus toxoid or make sure they already had their CD&T and booster before.

I forgot also, I do give Banimine to them for swelling and pain before the procedure, this helps a lot and they do well.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Just one last thing to check on, did you wash your hands before handling the bands? I always wipe mine down with rubbing alcohol before I start cleaning them up.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Glad they are doing better. Good job getting them the attention they needed.


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## Hodgson (Jan 7, 2014)

Jessica that's how I do mine as well. I just figured that since it's not breaking the skin that it wasn't necessary to disinfect everything. They just dry up and fall off cleanly.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

How long does is usually take for them to fall off? I have two going on 4 weeks now. I've been spraying with blukote to keep the flies off


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hodgson said:


> Jessica that's how I do mine as well. I just figured that since it's not breaking the skin that it wasn't necessary to disinfect everything. They just dry up and fall off cleanly.


That and most things are sticky or tacky wet what ever and I have it in my mind more crap will get stuck on and in that area and make it worse.

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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sassykat6181 said:


> How long does is usually take for them to fall off? I have two going on 4 weeks now. I've been spraying with blukote to keep the flies off


It should be really dried up looking by 4 weeks. 
Sometimes they can hold on by a thread and with a simple pull, they come right off. If the tissue is dead and not much is holding it there, you can snip it, but make sure it is indeed dead there. Then spray it with the blukote.

Or you can allow it to drop off by itself, which should be soon.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

newgoatgirl said:


> Thank you everyone. The Vet came and although Whiskey was sure he was going to die (and certainly let our neighbors know how he felt, what lungs!!) he is ok. The vet cut off what was left of his testicles and cleaned it out again. He also got some Banamine and Penicillin and...treatment on the house - what a great vet. I will post a photo of his improvement next time I am down there so you an see how much better he feels. And next year the band is not going to be up against the body! Thanks again


Yay!! Let us know how they recover.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, keep us updated.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

How are your boys today?


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Boys are feeling great and bouncing around like their old selves. They've been on penicillin for five days. Think one more day with do?


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm glad your handsome boys are feeling better. Do they have blue eyes?


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## moonspinner (Oct 5, 2007)

Years ago I had a banding that was really infected. The guy had a 104 temp so I gave him some Pen G and took him to vet. The vet said the Pen would do the trick and it did. Can you get a temp on him?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be doing a full 7 days. You always want to do a full course of antibiotics. Plus you want to make sure the infection is fully cleared up.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

So glad he is getting better, Love that face, he is adorable.


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## newgoatgirl (Jun 19, 2013)

Temp is good now. Yes blue eyed Nigerian dad Lamancha mom (maybe she is a cross of some sort?) and babies got the blue eyes. They are total cuddle monsters. Now to find them their forever homes! Thank you everyone for your help and I will keep on the penicillin for the full 7 days


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute, keep up the good work.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Great news!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

they are beautiful boys...glad they are well....I agree finish a full course of antibioitcs


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## moonspinner (Oct 5, 2007)

They should have no trouble finding homes. When I do disbanding I dip the bander prongs and doughnuts in alcohol, rub some alcohol on the testicle area and afterwards sprinkle with Wondrr Dust. When that area gets wet that's when infection sets in.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

This is the first time two of our wethers -mostly one ended up with slight infections. I think it is because our kidding season was later than normal and the grass completely dried out. With all this dust and dirt that they lay in- I believe that it caused an infection whereas in previous years, they were early enough to have lots of clean grass to lay in. It is also the first year we ended up with a bit of an infection on udder with one doe- a small cut (from babies biting) turned into an infection and it is also from the dirt - not having any grass at all to lay in this year. Such a dry dry year and a later kidding season has caused problems for us this year. Our dirt is evidently (dirty) dirt with staph in it after so many years of poopoopee in it. They always want to lay and poop in the same place and they have acres to spread this out on. I am sorry you had this bad infection. I think it must be a rare thing so they probably got some staph inside it. Glad they are doing better. OUr two wethers- I caught it at the start and only had to treat with Iodine spray each day for 3 days and they healed fine. Good job taking care of this. Thanks for sharing. It must be just a bad year for some of us in our field.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Prior to banding we did clean with alcohol. This year, they never cried or mumbled a bit or even moaned or groaned and the two of them both never even acted that uncomfortable after banding. We bought new ones this year. What ever was different for us this year to cause slight infections - I don't know.. I just think that it started with all the dirt and dust- 'peemud' that they roll in. These dark brown goats cover themselves in layers of dust. Totally dusted with dirt. And evidently was 'bad' dirt with staph where they lay down at. If we had not caught it in time... I am sure it may have gotten worse. Also ... the bands seemed bigger this year than when I remember. They were the same little tiny donuts.. I wonder if a new batch ended up being bigger than normal. They didnt seem to fit as tightly as years past. That also had me wondering because in years past- by the time the sack was ready to fall off- the wound was already dried and healed with a scab.. this year- no.. there was a bit of a bleeding wound that I had to keep spraying with Iodine. I don't know.. but banding still is one of the easiest ways in my opinion to make a wether.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Strange, maybe the boys aren't as big at the time or younger perhaps? 

The bands go up to banding a 250 lb animal. 

You may try calling the company and see if they changed the size?


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

We have been using the bordizzo -spelling probably wrong. It was an expensive tool but is very precise. We bought a cheaper one first but ended up returning it. Think we got this one from Premier. Been so much happier with that for castration. No wound -and they are over it so quick. Seems to be the best option for us. Have used it on the sheep and the little goats.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Banding is usually not a problem if there is a good tight band and it is done at the right age. So many times when things go wrong.. I think it is the band not being tight enough or the age was too old or too young. I'll still stick to banding. It is usually a smooth clean way to go. I think it is important to check the site and if the band has any oozing around it, it will need to be sprayed with iodine. Any ways.. it is still better than cutting. Our wethers have just dropped the sacks and it has left a tiny little scab now which has been less than a belly button scab. I would say.. it is best to spray with iodine before the danger of infection can set in and have the little guys in a cleaner area especially if the skin is broken. Our wethers were not.. they were giving themselves dust baths and were caked with dust all up in that band area which caused a minor infection that thankfully ended up clearing away completely. Usually tho.. that band is soooo very tight that nothing can get in. LOts of different methods to use. I just don't want people to get too scared of banding. It is usually not a bad way to go.


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