# Llama Down What do we do!?!?



## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Last year we had a LLama die and the vet said it was probably snakeweed?? But we have no idea what that looks like so we shut all the animals out of the lower pasture, and had it sprayed twice then burnt that pasture this spring.

Well my MIL just sent me a message via Facebook and the same llama that got sick and didnt die last year is sick again, she found him out in the pasture laying there like she did last year like he was to weak to get up and move or walk. She got him to the barn but he still acts sick from what I'm told.

Can we give it activated charcoal to try and counter whatever it may have ate? And how much do you give per weight?

I mean we arent even sure why its sick, because its not exactly prime weed growing season around here so I can't imagine it going the entire year and then finding some when it roams the same pasture daily.

So I'm confused as to why this llama is sick to the death stage again, when we found him last year we just kept him inside and he got better by himself. Everyone eats the same hay and no one else is sick.

I found a list of plants posionous to Llamas but I don't see "snakeweed" listed... We live in Central Indiana and what I've found shows "snakeweed" is native to Australia and low wet areas and roadsides, nothing any of our animals get access too...

What could it be? Any ideas?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

could he have got too much fresh greens..I know they are ruminants like goats..could be bloat...?? Does he have fever? I would also do a fecal check for worm load...


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Unfortunately I have no idea I am at work and my MIL doesn't have a way to check temp or anything.

She keeps blaming it on a weed that I havent been able to find being native to Indiana or in our pastures. Then said that it was kind of our fault that he got sick because we didn't get any hay down last night so it had to be hungry and went looking. The animals are in pasture all day they get plenty to eat without hay so Idk why today would be any different.

I am going to go check things out tomorrow see what I can see.

I know they never get wormed or anything besides shaved every summer. And they only get pasture in the summer and hay in the winter.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok I did some reading...you can give him Banamine 1 cc per 100 pounds....and b complex...I think Karen on here has llamas or alpacas...Ill send her a PM so she can be aware of whats going on so we can help you llama...

I would also get a fecal done asap and se whats going on there...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There must be something in your field that is doing it. Is there possibly nightshade?


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> There must be something in your field that is doing it. Is there possibly nightshade?


I have no idea, Last year the llama that died was really old so we contributed part of it to that because she started to come around but I found her the next day in the barn having like shaking/sezuire type behavior so my husband put her down because I didnt think it was appropriate to keep her alive like that.

I am going to walk the horse pasture tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

I will probably tell her to stop at TSC on the way home from work tomorrow and get some stuff if hes still acting wonky, she doesn't keep meds or anything on hand so its frustrating when stuff like this happens because its like floundering around like a fish out of water while shes freaking out like this animal is her world, even though they don't get any health maintenance just stuck in a field and left to their own.

I really dont like the llamas but I hate seeing an animal suffer and slowly die...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If she can get B Complex, I would give him about 10cc B Complex injection.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks Karen for the rescue lol..I was way out of my comfort zone here lol..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This is a really hard one since there aren't good symptoms to go on. It really does sound like something that they are eating in the pasture.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

what about active charcoal ?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Could certainly try it.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I told her to try it and told her we had some at our house but she wouldn't go get it. I guess I get to check on him tomorrow and see what's up. I just don't want to walk Into what I did last year the one last year that died was foaming at the mouth, its bowels let loose ad was shaking almost like a continuous seizure and she wanted us to keep it alive like that. 

I had to have my husband shoot it and he hates shooting animals. 

I found a list of 49 plants in Indiana that are toxic and a llama breeder close so I'm going to try both options walk pasture and call breeder to see if they have had any weed issues or a suggestion


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry...I know that must be frustrating...I think I would ask her to rehome the llamas...tell her the area is not safe for them...Its not fair to you to have to be put through this and its not fair to the llamas..I truly wish you all the best and the for the llama as well....please keep us posted and let us know if there is anything else we can do


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I tried to talk her into going the 2 horses to a 4h kid in need that wants to show horses but cannot afford to buy one and she told me they aren't 4h horses and she's turned down $5k for the one. Well that was years ago. She hasn't rode in years and you can't even get close to them. 

I'd love to rehouse the llamas to someone who would properly care for them but getting he to get rid of anything is a fight (think mild horder). She has tubs full of old paperwork she won't get rid of and rummage sales constantly. Ugh!!

My husband and I would like to get a great perinease(sp). For our livestock as neither of us care for the llamas. 

Well see how it is tomorrow. She never texted me back to say how it was fairing. She wants animals but doesn't want to take care of them because its work. Blaaaaaah. 

I really hope I don't find a dead llama in my clean barn tomorrow. We're in the middle of a massive remodel and I can just imagine that he's letting it roam through our construction or something. Ugh.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry. It is so hard when it isn't your animal.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

She said she was going to stop at tsc on the way home. 

I asked her about him and she said he was up and eating. So I told her to skip the charcoal and get the vitamin instead. 

I was reading alfalfa can be toxic to llamas and that's the kind of hay she feeds. I am wondering if a bale didn't get some moisture in it from a hole in the roof and it the mold and the llama ate it. 

There are a ton of possibilities. I'm going to go check the area she found him and see if I can find anything.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I too am sorry...how frustrating it must be. I applaud you for doing all you can for the llamas, like Karen said its hard when they are not yours...You are doing an amazing thing for them...keep us posted, anything we can do..let us know, I know very little about llamas, but Im willing to research, Karen has the knowledge .....many blessings : )


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

I would consider mengial worm if not for the foaming at the mouth. It takes a lot of llamas. Mine recovered but walks funny. However I had a friend who lost several, finally had a necropsy done and that was what they found. And basically that was her 1st warning, finding them down.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Does a wormer help clear those kind of worms? I've been with my husband for almost 3 years now and not once have they been wormed. 

I may suggest she buy some llama wormer or can you use goat wormer on them?

The other 2 haven't had any issues, it was the one smaller old female she lost last year then this small male who she said she thinks is around 5. He's the same one we had issues with last June. Found him in the field weak just laying there wouldnt even try to get up until they forced him up.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is not meningeal worm if the same thing happened last year. There is no llama/alpaca dewormer out there. You use Ivomec and Safeguard. Ivomec is given injection at 1cc per 70 lbs and Safeguard is given for 3 days in a row at 1cc per 10 lbs.

Meningeal worm does actually give you warnings. It starts out with a weak back end. Looks like an injury. Then they eventually can't get up. Then die. If you catch it early enough, you can save them but once they are down, they are too far gone.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Hmm well it doesn't sound like that. 

I talked to my husband and he said I guess she has them wormed every spring by her 85 year old vet so I'm sure its just a shot if anything.

My husband told me he told her if she isn't going to start taking care of her animals he is going to get rid of them. He told her she needs to start cleaning the stalls more than every other year, she needs to do her research on what an animal needs nutritionally before she buys stuff.

She said she isn't going to get rid of them but my husband is very head strong about her taking care of her animals herself becuse hes tired of stuff dying because of lack of care

My son is sleeping right now so after he wakes up I'm going to get around and head out there and see what I can see and start cleaning our other goat stall


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

All is well now he came around without any intervention. Well she loaded him up with our goat grain which didn't make me or my husband happy because we're trying to watch and figure our costs and with her taking our food for her llama throws things off. 

She never stopped and bought any meds to keep on hand just a bag of alpaca food she fed once and left open in the barn to attract more mice. *eye roll*

I dunno I give up I can't help her if she doesn't want to help herself!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sorry...sounds like a very difficult position to be in. :worried: Im happy the llama pulled through..


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Too much goat feed was probably his problem. That is a shame that she doesn't take care of her animals. Not much you can do if they refuse. I'm sure it is extremely frustrating for you.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

It is frustrating. Not only because she doesn't take care of her animals but because she constantly tries to dictate what my husband an I do with our animals. We make 1 big pile of the stuff we get out of the stalls then burn it. Well after she got the fire dept called on her 2 weekend ago because she started a grass fire and left it unattended and it spread across the pasture out to 2 roads and towards our barn she wants to tell us where we have to dump our stuff. She wants us to walk from the goat stalls with the wheel borrow then take the hose flood the wheelbarrow then walk it all the way down a hill to the horse pasture and dump it. I told her she was nuts and we'd do it our way and take care of it. We clean stalls the same way every time and have never burnt anything down or let the fire spread but because she got in trouble like she does almost every year with the fire dept now she wants to dictate us. She called my husband yesterday just to tell about how we put 3 wheelbarrow load of manure on our burn pile. Ugh


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Whose property are your goats on? If it is on her property, is there any way you can move them?


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/poison/plants/ppwhite.htm

This might be the plant your MIL is speaking about we have it in NJ


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

also i just saw the post about goat grain. goat grain has copper and copper is poisonous to alpacas I think is is the same for llamas


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Right now its technically her property. From what I understand is that it was left to my husband when his grandparents passed away so it would make it his property but she lives there...I'm not 100% sure it's very confusing.

But as of now its her's I guess. My husband has raised goats there for the past 5-6 years now and I got into it when we got together. We live in a small 2 bedroom apartment in town right now which is maye 8 minutes from her house. We tried to buy last summer but because neither of us had a year at our current jobs we couldn't get financed and I couldn't bear to live with her any longer so we moved into town. She wasn't respectful of others living in the house and we had a newborn at the time and she was constantly waking him up. I'd get up with him at 345am to feed him finally get him back to bed and she'd get up at 430am for work turn on a ton of lights, and slam cupboard doors, get her dog barking etc and wake him back up again. 

He/We have always dumped the manure/bedding in the same place and burnt it everytime. The only reason she's making it a big deal now is because she got in trouble this year and was told by the fire dept that she is going to have to start paying for them to respond to her house because they are called out there every spring because she lights grass fires and walks away and they get all crazy out of control. So now she's acting like a fire nazi even though we only burn when we are there to watch it..

I haven't seen anything like that on the property so I'm not sure what she's talking about and neither does she, she told me she has no idea what this plant looks like that she is blaming her llamas dying on.

Today I started to try and dig out her horse stall because the horses are up to their knees in poop and its pushing against the boards to the goat stall. So I went in and started to dig it out and found that because she has let poop and pee sit and build up for so long all the boards along the bottom of the barn are rotten and so are 2 of the support beams that support that section of the hay loft. So my husband broke the news to her today that she has to replace them and she just acted like she was suprised that could happen.

Were going to try and talk her into paving the 3 unpaved stalls in the barn that way they are easier to clean. The horses only eat in their stall so my husband said he would put up a hay feeder for her like he built for our goats, so that she didn't have to throw hay on the ground (even though she still does in our goat stalls and gets yelled at by my husband) That way we can just throw hay or shavings down and clean up poop as it gets dropped rather than after 5 years of accumulation.

He told me today he cannot wait until the house is finally ours so he can start to remodel everything. We had to fix 2 sections of fence today because her llamas crawl under it and have ruined the fence and she tried to fix it by tying a piece of cattle panel to it with binder twine. Which upon further insepction today most of the fencing is held up with binder twine so how it keeps animals in is beyond us! LOL So I found her stash of twine and threw it all away and he told her stuff is fixed correctly from now on.

I sometimes think our life would make an awesome reality tv show! LOL


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My goodness. You sure have one heck of a problem on your hands. I do feel sorry for you having to deal with that. It is an extremely tough situation to be in.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

So sorry for all your trouble...

We lost all of our first (free) llamas and alpacas last year one by one probably due to copper poisoning and barberpole worm. The gentleman who gave them to us had inherited them (nearly a year before) and told us they could eat goat grain - they can't. The copper builds up in their system slowly over time and compromises their immune system. Alpacas and llamas hide symptoms amazingly well. They seem perfectly fine and just hours later they are down. The barberpole worms (nasty deadly things for both alpacas/llamas and goats) proved to be resistant to traditional wormers. And it was hard to know that's what the problem was -- by the time you see them in a fecal sample burdens are really high. We now know that the earliest symptom (and directly deadly for llamas/alpacas) is anemia -- we do weekly eyelid checks now and keep redcell on hand to treat anemia.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I've given up. A lady at tsc who owned 1 llama told her the exact same things I did and because this lady has at one poit owned a llama she was right and I was just rambling even though we told we the SAME things. 

I hate to say it but I'm kind if at the point of if they die I'm just going to tell her I told you so


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

Well just to update. My MIL posted on Facebook Monday night the llama this thread was about she found dead in her pasture. 

Thing that makes me mad is that she doesn't check on her animals and she had been home several hours before she found it. Then she let it lay dead in the pasture all night and all day yesterday. And tried to start crap between my husband and I because I didn't let our goats outside yesterday. 

I got real fed up with her and told her the reason I didn't let my goats outside is because she left a dead llama in the pasture all day and she goes " I didn't leave him there that's where he died". Yes and you left him there all night and day!! My husband got mad and told her he didn't blame me because she left coyote bait out in the pasture and we don't want our animals killed due to her negligence. 

I had to have been dead awhile before she found it because when I was there at 230pm it was already bloated up. 

My husband said if he could do it without her getting arrested or in huge trouble he'd call the humane society on her and tell them they need to take her animals away because she doesn't care for them like they need to be cared for. 

I really wish she would have done a necropsy I would have loved to know the real reason why it died rather than some random guess by a vet in his 80s that needs to retire. But it's not something that's important to her so she won't spend the money. :-/


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I guess in some ways the llama is now better off. I'm so sorry for all your troubles. You and your husband are in such a terrible position.

Maybe her getting arrested or in huge trouble would wake her up.


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

It might but then I think we'd have the same issue we had a when she burnt the pasture she told my husband we'd have to pay the $18000 they said they were going to charge her knowing full well we can't afford to. It's because he called the fire dept because she started the fire and left

Not that we'd ever pay it she just likes to blame everyone else for her stupidity and problems. 

The llama is in a better place I walked out there yesterday and you can tell she neglects them. His hooves were all knarly and have never been trimmed since she's owned them. It's getting in the 80s and she still hasn't had them sheared. She doesn't feed them anything they only get grass and in the winter some hay nothing else. Same with the horses. 

She keeps saying she's broke and can't afford anything but she's paying her cousin to redo her screened in porch and putting in like $3000 worth of windows so she can have another room to hoard stuff in. She complained that us keeping our extra furniture at her house makes her place look junky yet she has kept the last 2 vacuums she has broken. My husband tried to throw one away yesterday and she waited until we left and dug it out of the garbage. And what set me over the edge after the llama being left out all day and night was my husbands cousin who no one has seen in like 15 years is coming up in July and his mom told me last night she's going to take my brand new bed and set it up and let them use it while they are here. Didn't ask if it was ok just told me that's what she's doing. So I called my parents and they are going to come get our excess stuff until we can find a house. You don't just loan out furniture that isn't yours!!!!

My husband keeps talking about moving and it being out of state. He's looking at Kansas, Tennessee and I keep pushing Michigan because that's where I'm from and I have a TON of family who is sane and super helpful. 

I swear somedays I feel like I need a xanex to deal with her


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow, that's a terrible situation to deal with.I am sorry you are going through that...maybe you'll be happy for a while even if you don't move close to your family...at least you'd be away from all that! Those poor animals


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