# Johnes false positive?



## TheBlackPack (Mar 7, 2013)

I just re-did all of the goats blood and one of my does came back positive for Johnes with the ELISA test. I am having her re-done with AGID and also plan to test everyone's fecals too just to be safe. 

I'm freaking out a little though, it's no fun to see that positive on there! The vet doing the tests recommended to have her tested with AGID because of the possibility of a false positive. 

All of my goats have been previously tested (all negative). The one who tested positive is one of my "grandma" goats in the herd. Her and the other old goat (both around 8 years old or so) have lived together pretty much forever (7 years). I have had no health issues of any kind with them. The positive goat, like I said is older and is as fat as a cow. In all that time they have had 0 issues of any kind. 

I have three two year old does, two are hers one out of the other older goat and were all raised off of the positive goats milk. 

Then of course I have this years kids, but they are to young to even test. 

She should not have been vaccinated (I haven't and her previous owner who owned her since a doeling didn't) and she shouldn't have CL (I understand that could make for a false positive) but I am now going to also test for that. She was previously tested, but I didn't do it this year. Her or any of my other goats have shown no signs. 

Ideas? I would rather be super cautious than not cautious enough. I have no idea what I'll do if she's positive. It would be our luck for something crazy to happen. The only outside goat I've introduced is our buck, and he was tested clean before I got him and still testing clean. I am not around other goats, or any other animals. I don't know how she'd be positive. Or how no one else has had issues. The girl I bought her from had several other goats and has never had issues with them either. Several as old as our girl, or older. Some younger. Always clean goats.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Both the AGID and ELISA can give false results, the faecal is the most reliable for JD


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I highly recommend you call to talk to the vet at the Johne's Testing Center. He is very knowledgeable and will be happy to answer any of your questions and (if she turns out to be positive) help you with an eradication/prevention plan. He told me that Johne's is nowhere near as contagious as is commonly believed. It's helpful to talk to him even if you don't have Johne's positives, because it's good to know about it in case you ever encounter it.
Even if she actually is positive, since she has been tested regularly and this is the first positive, it's unlikely that she has been shedding enough to infect many, if any, of your other goats. I believe the only ones with a significant risk would be the latest kids that have had her milk or been kept with her. Adults usually do not catch the disease anyway.

I would probably separate her from the other goats until you can get her tested again.

*Johne's Testing Center
School of Veterinary Medicine
2015 Linden Drive, RM# 4230
Madison, WI 53706-1102
(608) 263-69202*


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## TheBlackPack (Mar 7, 2013)

Thank you, I will call him. I hate waiting for results, I am pretty stressed about all this. Now I know why many people don't test due to the chance of false testing results and the stress and worry it unnecessarily causes.

I really hope I'm worrying for nothing.



milkmaid said:


> I highly recommend you call to talk to the vet at the Johne's Testing Center. He is very knowledgeable and will be happy to answer any of your questions and (if she turns out to be positive) help you with an eradication/prevention plan. He told me that Johne's is nowhere near as contagious as is commonly believed. It's helpful to talk to him even if you don't have Johne's positives, because it's good to know about it in case you ever encounter it.
> Even if she actually is positive, since she has been tested regularly and this is the first positive, it's unlikely that she has been shedding enough to infect many, if any, of your other goats. I believe the only ones with a significant risk would be the latest kids that have had her milk or been kept with her. Adults usually do not catch the disease anyway.
> 
> I would probably separate her from the other goats until you can get her tested again.
> ...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Testing for Johne's via blood sample has been said to be very unreliable, with a high number of false positives. You want to do the fecal test instead.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

^ I agree.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

someone I knew had a false positive because the doe had pneumonia right before the blood was drawn for testing. Apparently in her talks with the testing facility at WADDL they told her that if a goat had been sick it can come up as positive for Johnes even when its not the case. She did all the other tests and came up negative. She doesnt test for Johnes anymore as its not accurate.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

The blood test being cheap especially when you are already testing for CAE/CL isn't a bad thing in my opinion since you don't get false negatives; its the chance of false positives. For me personally I go ahead and do all three, if there was a + then I'd go to the fecal-that's just me though.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Contradicting what everyone is saying, we test all cattle 3x/year using ELISA (milk sampling). We have only had ONE case that was originally a positive come back negative. And this was our fault for testing her too early after calving. You can't test in the early lactation stages where her counts are higher, not can you accurately test a younger animal. You need to make sure you test ones that have gone through a bout of stress, as this is going to show through. Also, adults don't just "catch" Johne's. Johne's colonizes in the gut, and only acts up when in stress. Young stock can "catch" Johne's through milk or feces. Younger animals have larger and smaller holes in their gut acceptable to disease, antibodies, etc in preparation for their life. Johne's implants in one of the small holes, and in cattle can be transmitted all the way up to 4 months.

There are a lot of people who seem to "know" about Johne's. Vets, colleges, milk testers, etc. It's a hard disease just to "get". It's pretty complex. I personally would only talk to people dedicating the funds, resources, and time into specifically the disease, with questions. For example, when researching Johne's a few years ago, we had SO many different "know it all" answers but nobody had the same one! We'd ask can adults catch it? One person says no, another says yes, another says idk. Horrible!

Johne's is not a death sentence in many cases. There are animals that prove all the books wrong. Animals can live full, healthy, symptomless lives and you'll never even know you have Johne's in your herd. Johne's is transferred mainly through feces, and is questionably transferred through colostrum, and highly questionable if transferred through normal middle lactation milk. It is also in question into if it related to Chrone's disease in humans. Like I said, we test cows 3x/year. That way we catch everybody at different points in lactation. Readings are almost always the same.

Negative one time can be positive the next.
Suspect can be positive next time.
Suspect can also be negative the next time.
But positive should not become a low negative. Ever. If this happens, there is usually an error on the human end.

Good friend of mine works for:

National Johne's Education Initiative
National Institute for Animal Agriculture
13570 Meadowgrass Drive, Suite 201 • Colorado Springs, CO 80921
Phone: 719-538-8843 • Fax: 719-538-8847
Email: [email protected]


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

we are talking about the blood test not the milk test - so your results will be different because you use a different test. We are saying the BLOOD test isnt 100% accurate and to try a different type of test if the blood test shows a positive.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

StaceyRosado said:


> we are talking about the blood test not the milk test - so your results will be different because you use a different test. We are saying the BLOOD test isnt 100% accurate and to try a different type of test if the blood test shows a positive.


Oh well, milk information handout anyone?


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## TheBlackPack (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm still waiting on the results of the next test. I hate waiting. The good news is all other tests were negative.


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

I know this is an old thread, but did you ever get results back if she was actually positive or negative?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

OP was last seen in 2013, so we haven’t heard from them in quite some time unfortunately.


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## KareBear41486 (Jun 26, 2021)

Could someone point me in the direction of a lab that does Johne's PCR testing on fecal samples for goats? Most that I have seen are only doing blood ELISAs.

Thanks!


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

KareBear41486 said:


> Could someone point me in the direction of a lab that does Johne's PCR testing on fecal samples for goats? Most that I have seen are only doing blood ELISAs.
> 
> Thanks!


I had it done through our NJAHDL state lab, but it looks like Cornell does it too!  What state are you in? I would guess WADDL or UC Davis could do it if you're out west, but not sure on that.
Johne's Direct Fecal PCR Test | Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine


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## KareBear41486 (Jun 26, 2021)

CaramelKittey said:


> I had it done through our NJAHDL state lab, but it looks like Cornell does it too!  What state are you in? I would guess WADDL or UC Davis could do it if you're out west, but not sure on that.
> Johne's Direct Fecal PCR Test | Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine


Thank you! I am in Minnesota


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## CaramelKittey (Oct 31, 2019)

KareBear41486 said:


> Thank you! I am in Minnesota


No problem! I would go with Cornell then.


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