# Topline question: downhill?



## Binski5080 (Aug 2, 2013)

Everywhere I read, it says dairy goats should be "downhill" from the withers, but then I also read in several conformation books that the back should extend strait from the withers and go UP slightly at the hip bones. Could someone explain this seeming discrepancy to me? 
Thanks!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

What I look for is 'upstandingness' you want their withers to be upstanding. 
From their rump up to the withers or the withers down to the rump.. Here are a few pics to show that. (*note these pics are not that good at All lol!*)


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Dairy goats front end should stand taller then their rear end. This is called uphill, or upstanding stature. You want the withers to be taller than the hips, giving the spine a slight slope as it reaches the hip bones

This buck shows the best example for an uphill stature. See how the front end of the goat is much higher than the rear end? That is what dairy breeder looks for.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

you want them to look like they "walk uphill"


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## Binski5080 (Aug 2, 2013)

*One more question...*

Thanks for the replies! But I'm still confused. All of the goats pictured are "set up" sometimes with someone even pushing down their backs. Are they supposed to be downhill even when just walking around casually, browsing?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, they are supposed to have an uphill stature even when they are not set up, but it wont be as extreme as when they are set up.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its never called downhill. Its uphill from butt to shoulders. The touching of the back is call pinching down. For good photos most people do this. In the ring and in front of a judge, if you can get away with NOT doing it, a good judge will take notice. You still wanna set your doe up but the closer she looks to the idea without putting hands on her, the better.


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## Gunsmith48 (Jan 27, 2013)

Does this standard apply to NDG's. From what I have seen in the show ring this year has me so confused. This is our first year showing our goats.


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## Gunsmith48 (Jan 27, 2013)

Gunsmith48 said:


> Does this standard apply to NDG's. From what I have seen in the show ring this year has me so confused. This is our first year showing our goats.


 As I study the pic earlier. The buck looks setup & maybe facing up hill?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Everyone pinches down their animals. Most dont know that it actually draws the judges eye to you pinching the animal down not that actual animal itself. 

Here, its kinda like when someone is selling a used car. You get there and the hood is warm. The test drive goes great but you know they ran the car before hand so the car would run good and to make it seem better then it actually is.

A good judge will pretty much not look at a top line when an animal is set up. They do that when they are walking and on the move.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

TDG-Farms said:


> A good judge will pretty much not look at a top line when an animal is set up. They do that when they are walking and on the move.


what I would love to see are some sets of pictures of goats set up, then not set up, then video of them moving. I just can not translate what I see in set up pictures to what i see in the field and it would help me so much to know what those awesome set up goats look like when they are walking around.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, the best way to see that is to go to a show, you see them set up, you see them in motion, and at rest when they are back in the pens.


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## Gunsmith48 (Jan 27, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Well, the best way to see that is to go to a show, you see them set up, you see them in motion, and at rest when they are back in the pens.


Thank you! We have competed in 5 shows this year. Some of judging has me really confused. Each ring has been drastically different in judging. I just confused on what I'm looking at. Our breeding season is fast approaching. I still haven't nailed down our kidding schedule.

Sent from my iPhone using GoatSpot


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Was it a different judge in each ring? Every judge these days has their own personal preferance of what they like in a goat, so they will normally pick the goats they like the best to be in first, and the others that dont fit what they like the best will be placed farther behind. 
This is why your doe can win grand champion under one judge, and be dead last under another.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Well, the best way to see that is to go to a show, you see them set up, you see them in motion, and at rest when they are back in the pens.


Unfortunately my work/farming schedule doesn't allow me to get away for things. Aside from fair (and I haven't been terribly impressed with the quality locally, so that didn't help much) any of the good shows are just more of a trip than I can make.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Maybe you can watch some goat shows in YouTube?


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## Binski5080 (Aug 2, 2013)

Most importantly, WHY do you want a dairy goat to look uphill? What is the health/ functional benefit of this that makes it so important?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Up hill is desired for 2 main reasons. First being a uphill animals will tend to be more level over the rump. Level and wide rumps are desired for ease of kidding. Second being for general drainage. Its easier for the animals to expel waste and afterbirth if they are uphill.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

I would actually say proper weight carriage is higher on the list than your number two. Proper weight carriage on those rear legs and feet, and udder hanging directly between, it's an ease of aging as well.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Sure ill take your number 2 over my number 2


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> Sure ill take your number 2 over my number 2


Lol only reason I say this is uphill stature is something we emphasize in our programs.


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## Binski5080 (Aug 2, 2013)

Thanks everyone! This was a very informational thread for me, and I appreciate everyone's replies.


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