# The Perfect Goat Breed



## redsticker

It's another year without goats for me (thanks, economic crisis) but it has given me time to do a lot of reading, not just about goats, but I've been learning about many different breeds of all different kinds of animals. I'm finding it interesting that certain breeds of sheep, cattle and pigs are bred not only for their meat/milk production but also for hardiness and disposition.

So I was wondering... is there a goat breed that is naturally hardier, perhaps parasite resistant like St. Croix Sheep? (I'm into the dairy breeds so maybe there's a meat breed I don't know about?)

I was also reading about people conserving/shaping heritage breeds and creating new ones by mixing certain breeds and by breeding in or out certain qualities. And that got me thinking, do you think it would be possible to breed resistance to things like cocci or hoof rot or UC? Or a true dual/triple purpose goat where the girls had huge udders and the whethers were meaty and delicious, and maybe even had fiber? I'm no expert on genetics or whatever, so I wouldn't know anything about how to do it (maybe these already exist?), but I have so much spare time to think about this stuff, lol.

I know people might already breed mixes of dairy and/or meat goats, but if you were creating your own breed, what qualities and characteristics from other breeds would you want?

Haha, sorry, I'm bored.  onder:


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## myfainters

Well, fainters are known for being pretty worm resistant and I breed for good strong hooves... I have a few does that have never needed to have their hooves trimmed (they are 4 and 5 years old now) we live on dirt so they must just not grow? LOL Although, the one doe I trimmed before a show... just to neaten hers up a bit (there was barely a little fold at 4 years old) well... since I did that she needs to be trimmed every 6 months or so???? weird. Most of my does only need worming once a year... but I do also have a few that have only been wormed 2X and they are also 4 and 5 years old. I think breeding for resistance and strength of legs and hooves is a great idea.... so let us know how your research on that goes!


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## SDK

lamanchas!!!!!!i love my munchies,even for dairy they are great multi purpose


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## nutmegfarm

I would also have to say lamanchas and the saanens are great too!


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## FunnyRiverFarm

I third Lamancha for hardiness and adaptability. 

They are easy to train in general...and they handle stress very well compared to some other breeds that I've worked with. Don't seem to have as many health problems either, I've noticed. 

Wethers are a good size for meat with just the right amount of flesh...not as bony as some of the other dairy breeds.

There are people that breed for parasite and disease resistance (mostly with meat goats but some with dairy too) and it is definitely possible to "create" goats that are more resistant.


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## StaceyRosado

the Kiko goat is known for being parasite resistant and very hardy. As to milk production that I don't know. But they were developed from a dairy breed.


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## Dover Farms

I second the Kikos for hardiness. We had them a few years back, sold them due to wanting to focus more on the Nubians. They were great, though. We brought them from MO to OH and they never even got as much as a snotty nose. We never had a problem with their health. The doe we had was an excellent mother. Now their feet...they need some improving structually, at least the ones we had did. Most Kiko breeders don't always breed for the best conformation...they breed for excellent dams and parasite resistance.

I wouldn't say the doe we had was a great milker. She always had enough for her kids, but we never tried milking her ourselves.

If you want to cross breed and have parasite resistant goats...I would recommend using some Kiko. I liked my Nubian/Kiko crosses, but we sold out before we had a chance to see them freshen.


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## ZipperDoo

I am all about the LaManchas.

The does generally produce a LOT of milk, even as a FF. And my lamancha Penny's little whether is 1/2 Boer. I'll grab some more pictures of him... He's growing like a WEED and his girth is nothing short of astounding.

I don't know how the female 1/2 Boer 1/2 lamanchas would be, but... I have tasted Boer milk and it was DELICIOUS. Boers have very rich, very sweet milk. I think if someone could produce 1/2 Boer 1/2 lamanchas that retained the high milk production as well as the sweeter, richer flavor of the Boer... I might just fall in love. That would be MY perfect goat.


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## mrs. lam

For goats I'd say kiko. My uncle has been doing alot of looking. He has boars now and is going to do some crossing next year.

As for sheep, I have a hair and a wool sheep. They have been great on Garlic Barrier and I'm now using it on the goats. It has an added benfit of keeping away flies and such. 

If you are breeding for meat, they say apple cider vinegar helps the taste. It also helps sheep with wool. Not as much lanolin makes it easier to shear.

For cool rare breeds, check out Jacob sheep! The color is wonderful and those horns are wicked looking! :drool: 

Gina


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## redneck_acres

My LaManchas tend to hardly ever have illness issues(knock-on-wood) The Saanens are a beautiful breed and milk well to for the most part-but if anything ever gets a runny nose or sick it seems to be them-dont know why but it does. My frist fresheners are milking pretty good-but I never really expect much milk 'till their 2nd freshening. My LaManchas are pretty tame. I have one that my mom can't catch-but she comes right up to me ;-).


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## redsticker

I just find all this so fascinating... I didn't know lamanchas were considered hardier than other dairy breeds. And I read this morning about kiko and purebred Spanish goats.

To me, a perfect breed seems like a combination of lamancha, spanish or kiko and for me, in a smaller package, so with a bit of Nigerian in there.

I've heard that Nigis have milk that is sweeter than other goats, so is the milk of Nigi and other dairy breed mixes (mini nubians, mini manchas, etc.) a combination in taste?


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## CrossCreekTX

I read somewhere that the LaMancha was created from a wild Spanish goat and a dairy breed. It makes sense. Mine seem very hardy.


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## capriola-nd

I love LaManchas but have limited space so the Nigerian breed is for me! I would love to have Mini Manchas though. They seem to combine the "best" and in a smaller package.


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## redsticker

When you introduce the nigi blood, does that make that mini-manchas more susceptible to parasites? (Anyone with mini-manchas willing to share your experiences?) 

I know that most dairy goat breeds are seasonal breeders, but are lamanchas and mini-manchas seasonal breeders? What about meat goats?


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## capriola-nd

Our Nigerians are very hardy and do not require DE-worming more than once or twice a year, if that. Don't know so much about others. I think the Mini-Manchas may be seasonal breeders, not sure though. Boer goats can breed pretty much year round.


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## redneck_acres

Can't remember but are Boer goats pretty much the only ones that can be bred year around?


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## SDK

i dislike mini manchas... standard lamanchas arent huge to begin with, so why bother downsizing them. 

they were derived from a spanish type goat 

I used to have a laboer ( 50/50 boer lamancha) and she grew AMAZINGLY FAST and well.. and her kids were the best growing.. because you have a lamancha with high butterfat and loads of milk, and you just make that milk richer with boers... sooo


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## redsticker

When you breed a lamancha to a boer, you always have to make the smaller one the buck, right? So it would have to be a boer doe bred to a lamancha buck?

How tall are lamanchas? I tried to find some info to no avail. Also, how many kids do they usually have or can they have? (And mini manchas?)

I'm also having trouble finding info on kiko x dairy mixes, so I'm quessing there aren't too many out there. But I'd love to see some pictures of what mixes look like or information on the benefits of adding the kiko blood to "dairy" goats. I've only seen pics of some 3/4 saanen x 1/4 kiko crosses, but they weren't standing and had no info, just pics. After reading how hardy kiko's are even compared to the spanish goats, it would seem worthwhile to add a little kiko if one wanted to create a hardier dairy goat mix, but I'm sure there are also downsides.


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## Dover Farms

Generally, you can breed most dairy does to Boer bucks. People do it all the time. Just make sure your does are nice and wide from hips to pins...and maybe use a buck that doesn't throw huge kids. 

Not all Lamanchas are small. I can think of a couple herds off the top of my head that have really big LMs.

Here...let me find some pics of the Nubian/Kiko does we had...


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## Dover Farms

Okay here are some pics of the twins, Gem and Jade, when they were around 7 months old.


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## StaceyRosado

The Lamachas here in NJ are larger then alpines and oberhaslis - they rival the Sannan in size for sure.


mini manchas would have the ability to breed year round like a nigerian but may be more receptive seasonally. It would probably vary a goat to goat


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## redsticker

Awww! They're lovely! How old are they now? Are kiko x dairy crosses good milkers, good moms?

That's good to know about boers. There are a ton of lovely bucks around here.

Can you also breed Kiko bucks to the dairy breeds without birthing problems? I've heard that they throw small purebred and meat cross kids that grow quickly, reaching market weight before other breeds. And that Boer kids and crosses grow faster than dairy kids.

This is going to sound weird, but besides the goats at the petting zoo (Nigerians) and Boers from a distance at the state fair, I've never been next to full size goats. I've seen pictures of average height people with standard goats and they look huge, like baby horses. I'm 4'11" with little kids so I'm worried about size. 

Sorry for all these questions... I'm definitely going to read more about mini manchas and kiko crosses and all of this, but I love reading any advice and experience yall have.


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## LuvmyGoaties

I have 2 mini LaManachas and I love them though they are my first goats so I don't really have anything to compare them to. I chose them because I was getting them for my 2 year old son (actually that was just my excuse- I ahev always wanted goats but my husband said no until he saw how much my son loved them :shades: ) so I wanted smaller goats. There was a good breeder just minutes from me. She has had goats for many many years and is very knowledgeable, she has a good web site with lots of pictures if you want to learn more about mini LaManchas. Check it out here: http://www.freewebs.com/creamcupminis/ 

Jen


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## mrs. lam

I would like to know how big Nubian's get. I have a 3 week old buckling and he's growing pretty fast. He also does things my other goats don't do.....He's very funny and very affectionate. He can't stand to be out of my sight. :sigh: That's why he's asleep under my chair at the jewelry store. :sleeping: 

Gina & Ben


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## goathappy

I love LaManchas, they are hardy, the milk great and have good milk. Their size depends upon the lines, but as they are being bred to milk more they are also getting bred to be bigger. LaManchas are such a good breed because of their hybrid vigor; they originally descended from short-eared spanish stock that were bred to purebred bucks of different breeds(alpine, nubian, togg and saanen) so that they had the hardiness of the spanish goat, with the milkiness and type of a standard dairy goat. As for size of the LaManchas, even if you do get a bigger doe, standard sized goats aren't hard to handle(bucks can be a handful sometimes, but they're bucks so go figure ) and LaManchas have such a sweet personality.

Kikos are similar to LaMancha in the way they were developed. They were developed in New Zealand by taking feral island goats and breeding them with saanen, british alpine and a few togg bucks. The offspring were resistant to parasites like their feral mothers, but had a larger body structure and more milk which came from their sires. Kikos tend to have smaller birthweights than boers, so dairy goats can easily manage having kiko kids.


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## sweetgoats

I hate to say this, but most people are going to say their goats are the hardiest. We all love our goats and for different reasons, that is why we picked them.

I will are that Kiko are very hardy and same with the Spanish goats. Now that is why we got into the Cashmere goats, for their hardness. They are off the Spanish side.

Now I am going to say that I believe almost any goat can be "hardy" if it is taken care of, but it also depends on where you live and what your feeding rules and so on are. If you live in a area where there are known to be a lot of worn trouble, then of course that is different then if you live where I do. I dewormed a few of my goats last year and that was the first time in 7 years I have dewormed. It is because I am not in a area where I have slugs or really any trouble.

Cashmere very rarely get cold because they have their own HUGE winter coat.

Now I will say I have a lot of kids with Angora goats. They seem to have a lot more trouble then we do. Their goats tend to reject the babies bore then I have ever seen in any other goat, plus they seem to be sicker more ofter.

I will also say that in the going on 10 years that we have been into the goats, I have only given a antibiotic to a buck that was surgically castrated. He goat a infection in the area, becasue after we had it done it rained and he like to lay on the cool ground, so he got a infection. I also had a doe that had one mummified baby, and the other one was fine, she stepped on the placenta and it tore, so the vet said to have her go on a antibiotic in case. I have more antibiotics that are expired becasue I have them on hand JUST IN CASE, and I have not used them. I go into almost all my does after they kid just to make sure they are done, and I have never given a antibiotic for it either. I have never had Mastitis in ANY goat either. When thee babies are weaned, mom does not get milked out either. I let nature take its course unless I see she can barley walk then I milk just enough to take some pressure off them. 

Now with that said, I am by no means trying to ruffle any feathers, I am only giving MY experience. 

Everyone LOVES their goats and the kind/breed that they have for their own reasons. I believe you should find goats that you might be interested in, go and see them, be with them, then go to another farm, check them out until you find one that when you leave you go "OK, that is the kind of goat I want" They have to be able to FIT your program what ever that is.


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## Dover Farms

sweetgoats said:


> I hate to say this, but most people are going to say their goats are the hardiest. We all love our goats and for different reasons, that is why we picked them.


I totally agree. No ruffled feathers here. :wink:



redsticker said:


> Awww! They're lovely! How old are they now? Are kiko x dairy crosses good milkers, good moms?
> 
> Can you also breed Kiko bucks to the dairy breeds without birthing problems?


Thank you.  I don't own them anymore. We sold them before they were a year old, but they would be 3 this year. I was updated on the one and she was a good mother...don't know how much she was milking though.

And yes. There should be no problems breeding a dairy doe to a Kiko buck.


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## crocee

The perfect goat breed would be one that has talking genes in their lineage. This way they can tell us when they got bred, their tummy hurts, they have an itch, or they just need a hug. I would love to see this perfect breed and even have a few.

I love my LaBoers, my Saanenors, Nubian, Snubian, and my baby Nigerians.


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## MiGoat

mrs. lam said:


> I would like to know how big Nubian's get. I have a 3 week old buckling and he's growing pretty fast. He also does things my other goats don't do.....He's very funny and very affectionate. He can't stand to be out of my sight. :sigh: That's why he's asleep under my chair at the jewelry store. :sleeping:
> 
> Gina & Ben


 Nubians can get quite large. Not the size of a boer buck but large.


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## jdgray716

Well, there is not perfect breed. That questions is more like, what is the perfect race. You will never get the right answer because there is none. I can tell you what is the perfect breed to me but again unless you have owned every goat there is you can not properly answer this question.

Now as for the meat breeds I can tell you studies have shown, as well as personal experience, that the myotonic is most resistent. Now I think Stacy said somewhere that the Kiko is know for it as well. Yes this is true. I would put them number two to be honest. The only thing I have found to differ in the two breeds is I have had a much harder time keeping my Kiko's, when I had them, at a weight I liked after kidding. To me the dairy side of them really comes out a lot durring that time. I like a doe to maintain their weight and have found that easiest with the Myotonics. The other thing I found with the Kiko is there is more meat to the Myotonic. Now with boers I have had great exsperiance as long as they had a more resisten goat in their breeding. The full bloods it really was hit or miss with us. Some did ok the other were not so hot but none that I ever had full blood were great with parasites. Again, my Myotonics after kidding age are not anything I ever have to worry about and it is at time months or only kidding time that I have to worm at all.

Now for Dairy goats, I can not speak for them. I have not had any.


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## RowdyKidz

Looks like Pygmies are the odd ones out...

Pygmies are VERY hardy. They were originally developed in Africa and are phenomenal in all climates. VERY well adapted ( I am not saying this based on mine alone, but facts from research I have done). Mine have never had a worm problem.

The only thing is that they have kidding problems (not often, if you know how to correctly breed them and such). Not more than other breeds, as long as you are good with your pregnant doe's diets (ie, not alot of grain). They don't eat much at all and prove to be very healthy! 

JMO, I guess. I also have a Boer/Alpine cross and a nigi. My nigi is alot different than my pygmies. Seems like I am constantly worming him and he catches cold's easily. I have other goats with him that are 100% fine and he is one of the most dominant.

My Boer/Alpine is also well adapted. Him mom was 50% boer and 50% alpine and produced very little milk. All of her kids had to be bottle fed.

Just something else to think about if you wanted a smaller animal.


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## redsticker

I think that's what I'm afraid of. To me, buying a goat is a huge investment and I've heard so many horror stories that I'm afraid I'm going to buy a goat and then have to be super paranoid all the time to make sure it doesn't die. I mean, I know goats will always need constant care and supervision, but I also know that there are some breeds that are hardier than others, but almost all of them aren't dairy breeds. (I didn't know Lamanchas were considered hardier till after reading yall's replies.)

And I know there's not a single perfect breed, that's why I was asking what yall, as goat owners, considered the perfect breed for yall or the perfect mix, if you made one. I started to think about this after reading about these hogs and sheep that perfect for homesteaders because they don't require much care when it comes to feeding, disease prevention, parasite control, birthing and raising their babies.

I live in the South Louisiana, where it's usually very hot and extremely wet, so it seems like the Kiko goat might do well here (most people have Boers, but all I hear about is worming and other health issues, etc.). I'm into dairy goats, though. So I'm thinking the perfect goat, for me at least, might be some sort of KikoMancha mix... especially if I could find a local herdsire that passes on parasite resistance and healthy hooves and a local LaMancha doe that is quite hardy herself. That way she'd hopefully have enough milk for her babies and for us, and maybe she could pass it on some dairy character to her mixed babies? *shrugs*

I love Nigerians so much... but if I spend the kind of money the breeders want for the ones I want and they die, I'll be completely heartbroken. And poorer, which I can't afford right now.  So maybe to start with, I should get something a little hardier? (Yes, I know, no guarantees... but it's worth a shot.) For now, I could live with having a couple gentle, hardy mixed breeds that I could milk while I get more experience with goats, then when I'm ready, I could move onto Nigis and showing and milk tests and all that fun stuff.


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## jdgray716

Since you live where you are, if you are looking at boers I would try the Texmaster. This breed was made for your climate. Onion Creek Ranch in TX carries them. They also have very nice Myotonic lines as well as TMG's. You can do a search or got to my links page but these are all lines that do well in your climate area and are very hardy breeds. Just a thought...hope it helps.


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## Dreamchaser

I hear some good things about the Tex Master, a breeder in my area is dropping the dairy goats to breed these goats instead. A good cross I think is a nubian/boer cross (I'm not terribly fond of them only because of their vocalness LOL) but they don't seem to get huge, but are a muscular and give good milk too. They seem pretty hardy as well.


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## ohiogoatgirl

my perfect goat... hm... i love: nubian ears and noses, sannen body build, oberhasli coloring, girgentana horns (http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/ ) or zhongwei horns (http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/ )
thats probably my dream goat... what a hodge-podge!


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## Galavanting Goat

Here in Aussie, I like to mix my milkers with feral (spanish goats I think you call them there in the US) i've noticed ours are least susceptible to worms, their feet barely need trimming etc. Depending on the individual doe depends on how much milk she produces for us. The does we have that are milkers x milkers e.g. alpine x nubian etc, have been a little less resistant but still do well. The purebred breeds again are less resistant than the milkers x milkers but overall we have a pretty good feeding and vit/mineral preventative plan so the only time we have big problems with a goat is when we have an emergency rescue come in.


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