# Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinion!)



## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*I'm sorry this is long, but I would love your opinion on this. Please read and tell me what you think.*

Back in 2009, I showed my dry yearling pygmy doe, Karma. She won Jr. Champion and then Reserve Grand Champion. The judge told me that he really liked Karma, but she didn't have a mammary system and hadn't proved yet that she could produce. He told me that she would be Grand Champion after she has kidded the next year.

I thought this was great news and couldn't wait for the following year to show Karma as a Sr. doe. A year passed and it was show time again. Karma had had a single doeling 4 months before the show and had a decent little pygmy udder. The day of the show, I separated her from her baby to let her udder get a small fill. I figured that this was the proof of production the previous year's judge had wanted.

I Walked Karma out into the show ring thinking this was her year. There were only 3 doe in the class (small class). Then, the shock of the night happened; Karma was placed last. Now, I'm not trying to brag, but Karma seemed the best of the three. She was much more coby/stocky, she had a great topline, and she was much more muscled. They judge said "I loved the look of this doe, but I placed her last because I can she that she is nursing and just doesn't have it in her." Neither of the other 2 does in the class had udders.

Now, the second judge who didn't like Karma was just...weird. When we were fitting our goats (the competition for 4-H) she was walking through the barn and watching us kids. When she walked by me fitting Karma, I was in the middle of shaving her udder. She leaned down and asked me "Why are you shaving her udder?" Before I could answer, she answered herself with "Oh! I see. She is a dairy doe!" Before I could correct her, she walked off and left me thinking about how weird she was. She knew that she was judging pygmies, not dairy goats (The dairy goat show wasn't even until the nest day!), so how could Karma possible be a dairy goat?!? She was just WEIRD!

So, my question is, which judge was right? Shouldn't the does in s Sr. class have a n udder to prove that they are able to produce kids? That makes since to me. I talked about this to other people in the goat barn and they didn't understand it either.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Now I am not to familiar with pygmies but for boers when they get over the 16-20 month class the judge wants to see that they have had kids. Now that does not mean they have to have an udder but you can usually tell if a doe has freshened or not when looking at a dry udder. If a doe has not freshened then they normally get placed lower because the judge does not know if they are productive or not. I would say that this judge was just a little off but I didn't see the show either.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

When I was raising boers I made the mistake of showing 2 two year old beautiful, well defined, muscled does, that hadn't had kids yet. They placed last in the class because they hadn't shown signs of pregnancy or lactation. I was bummed, but that was the rules.
I think the ther 1st judge was right, and the 2nd judge was definitly wierd....


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

@ Roger; I know the people that owned the other 2 does and neither had ever been bred.

@ GotmygoatMTJ; That's why I was surprised they placed above Karma!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Hmm...well I don't know anything about meat does in milk...how they should place or anything. However, maybe a clipped and filled udder wasn't appropriate? Maybe it made her look dairy? Since they are meat goats. :shrug: I dunno. Sometimes I disagree with how judges place certain goats in a class...but obviously they are seeing something that you weren't. What did the judge say about the goats ahead of yours...why did he place them ahead? Maybe your doe was underconditioned vs. the does ahead? Maybe he didn't like her movement?

Next time, if something like this happens. After the show...if the judge isn't busy, politely ask about what they did/didn't like about the particular goat. Just say you are trying to learn and improve your herd. Some judges are very willing to help and others really couldn't care less...but it never hurts to ask.


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## myanjelicgirlz (Jul 19, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

thats odd. I am new to the show circuit but i wouldnt know


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

@ Kylee; It really didn't make her look dairy though. She was my best pygmy doe. The judge never really said why she liked the other two better. When Karma was on the move, she was stunning. That was a big reason of why the past judges loved her. She was probably the best doe in the herd for that reason. The other pygmy does in the class were decent, but in my opinion they weren't stout enough. I'm okay with not placing first in the class, but to me, it seemed like the judge was using the fact that Karma had an udder as an excuse. It was just really weird.

I did talk to the judge after the show and she said the same thing to me; "She is nursing and just doesn't have it in her." The whole thing was wacky. It seemed like the judge was avoiding something.

I'm just trying to figure out what I should do with the pygmies this year. I had talked to the person that runs the goat barn (she also had pygmies) and she said I should shave the udder. I'm probably going to do the same thing I did last year and just hope I get a "normal" judge.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Also, I think it's good to have somewhat of an udder so that it can be judged. There are some pygmies there that have horrible attachment. I know pygmies aren't bred for milk, but some people do milk them (AGS recognizes them as a dairy goat) and it could be used as a tie breaker between 2 does.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Well now my next question is does she have a really small udder because if she does then that could be what the judge is talking about. If it is small it will take her down a notch because although she can produce kids she may not have enough milk to raise multiples and then I would count her down. Just saying maybe you should post a picture of her and her bag.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

I take the "she is nursing and doesn't have it in her" as being a conditioning issue...like she is underconditioned because the nutrients is going to the babies. :shrug:


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

She did not have a small udder at all. Also breed standards call for small to medium udders. Karma passed back in March so I have no udder pics. I uderstand what you are saying Kylee but she didn't look unhealthy at all. I'm just really confused about the whole thing. I asked myself all of the same questions you are asking me and I couldn't come up with any reasonable answer.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Hmm...odd. Do you have any photos of her around the time of the show?


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

No I don't. I really wish I had more pictures of her now, but I never thought to take a picture. I know that it's hard for you to say anything about it since you weren't there and I don't have any pics. I just wanted to know what I should do this year and if it was just a weird judge.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Okay so I think the issue is in the NPGA a doe HAS to kid before she can be a PGCH, same with the dairy breeds. And alot of times the older doe's will get grand champion because they have more years on them.

I don't believe you should shave her udder. I've never done that for pygmy's shows so :shrug:

I really hate to show lacatating does, I've only ever did that once or twice, but if possible maybe dry her up before your next show.

p.s -- I've had my fair share of wacko judges at 4-H shows.... :roll: :GAAH:


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Hm...Why don't judges like the lacatating does? I don't get that but I guess I will work on drying them off. Thanks for the advice


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

I've seen boers showing in milk, but they don't shave the udder or fill it. I think it's fine just don't do that next time *may* help? However, I don't know much about showing meat goats.


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## Calico Patch Farm (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Showing pygmies with udders(Plz read! I want your opinio*

Okay. Thanks a lot!


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