# Questions about rumen shutting down- Symptoms??



## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

Over the last few weeks I have been nursing a sick goat (with some very good advice from the goat spot). Over this time I have been reading and learning a lot. We only have the two goats and I never spent a lot of time watching or listening to their rumen activity before this. 
I now suspect that my goat's rumen had all but shut down when he was at his sickest. He was sub for at least 5 days before I got his temperature up. He now has tummy gurgles and smelly burps which he didn't when he was sick. 
If this was the case, what other symptoms might there have been? Also, does anyone know how this might look on blood work?? I ask because the tests showed that pretty much everything had shut down and suggested strongly that he had/has cancer, but it is hard to believe it when I see him getting stronger every day.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

gurgles and burps mean his rumen is working -- if he is getting stronger thats a good thing. I missed your other posts about this guy (but Ive been super busy so it happens).


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree ...if he is gurgling and burping....his rumen is working....

Here is a link about the rumen and things that can happen....
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=36

Not sure how to answer why... he is getting better.. when his blood work showed..such bad results.....  
That is a plus he is improving.... are you sure ...you have the right test results and it isn't someone elses?.... Check the name on it... Hopefully there was a mix up... :hug:

Anyway....I am glad to hear.. he is doing OK...... praying that... he will live a long and healthy life.... :hug: ray:


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## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

When a goat's rumen shuts down does the goat get diahrea, or stay pellets? Can it result in shut down of liver/kidney and would it effect white and red blood cell count? Basically, I am wondering if the blood test results of a shut down rumen could mimic cancer. :chin:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

that I dont know


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## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

yes- his blood results. :sigh:

Thanks for the article ... all of this has me scratching my head because Oliver and our second (and healthy) goat- Heidi, were never exposed to any of the conditions that might lead to an unhealthy rumen. We had a round bale for our horse with a little mould when I looked at the inside. Would that have been enough?

How long after a rumen begins to shut down does it become a deadly condition? From what I read is seems to be a very quick process-days, but when we look back Oliver was fading for quite a while. It started with little things months back like not jumping on the door or his tire when we came in. I never gave it much thought then. :chin:


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm pretty much a newbie... so I dont have any insights for you, but this post is very interesting.. Is he continuing to get better? I hope he makes it.. and I love the name Oliver (my name is also Heidi BTW) Could you post a pic of them? Anyway, I'm glad he's feeling better and I truly hope it continues!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

As long as he is not in any pain and he is improving....After those test results ...I'd count your blessings..... :hug: 

If there was a little mold in the hay that isn't good.... sometimes that is all it takes to poison a goat....some goats are more prone to get sick... while others...can be OK...eating a very small amount and not have an issue....
If there is a feed source.... they are given and it happens to have mold in it...and they have no other choices of feed.....goats or any other animal will eat almost anything...even if it isn't good for them..... as they may have no other choices..

Always smell...and look at any feed you give whether it be grain or hay ect.... look at it...smell it....when you tear it apart does it have a bunch of particle mold dust flying all over...if it looks moldy...smells moldy ...not look moldy but smells moldy....all not good....never feed it.....

Alot of things can knock off the rumen.... not enough roughage is one... 
Under certain conditions....a rumen can shut down real quick depending on the circumstances...... and yes... if we don't intervene and get the rumen going right away...such as Probiotics...baking soda... stealing cud from another...depending on severity..... It is very deadly..if left untreated...the quicker the response to the illness the better the recovery....

With Cancer... it can spread slowly or quickly......it could possibly be.. in the belly area....as he doesn't want to stretch....by getting up on the door... it may be uncomfortable doing that ..... :hug:

Prayers sent that way for Oliver.... ray:


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## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

It is the craziest thing. Oliver continues to improve. He even jumped onto his tire today which I haven't seen in about 3 months. We have started letting him outside for about 2 hours each day to see how things are- but he is still eating only softened carrots, softened lamb starter and free access to hay and mineral.

Other than being a little slower and jumpy than his 'real' personality, the only other hint that anyone would have that he was pretty much on death's door is that there is still some foaming around his mouth when he is first getting up. Ideas??

Thinking of causes for this- other than the obvious, cancer now in some type of reprieve, I am still wondering about mould. The round bale we had was 98% good. I only found mould on one spot on the inside roll. Would a goat eat that part of it if there were better options?

I tried to attach a couple of photos. What a lesson in technology!! I learned how to resize. Yay! I noticed in one of the photos my daughter has a dog collar on them. What a silly girl. The collars aren't part of their normal get-up, but the goats will put up with just about anything for attention.


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## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

Another question.. How do I post a photo beside my name on the left panel?
Thanks!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

very sweet boy 

some goats arent smart and will eat what isnt good for them = most wont but he could be the rare one that did.

as to your avatar -- email me the picture and I will put it up for you, (it can be a complicated resizing and compressing to make it fit) stacey.roop @ gmail.com (take out spaces)


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

You have two beautiful goats there! I pray that your little Oliver continues to improve. He has the sweetest face!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww...they are sweet.... :thumb: 
I love those pics...adorable... :greengrin: 

Oliver looks Alert and well... and wow he is on the tire...  

Has he been foaming at the mouth every day...or is it on and off?
Does he still have access to the same bale suspected of mold?

I agree... a goat can eat.. what is bad for them....  

Glad you remove the collar.. when you are not with them.... :hug:


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

So happy for you that Oliver is getting every day! About the foaming around his mouth when getting up......I have a 4yr old that has done this since he was little, it is always first thing in the morning when I go out to the barn......now I am just talking about slight foam not lots. I use to worry about it, but I have just chalked it up to him being him!


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## ilovetrees (Mar 12, 2011)

That is really interesting about your 4 year old with the foam around his mouth cdtrom. He also has just a little bit in the morning like your boy. Maybe it is also just an Oliver thing.  In the meantime, he has started eating hard carrots and unsoaked lamb starter. yay!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That is really interesting about your 4 year old with the foam around his mouth cdtrom. He also has just a little bit in the morning like your boy. Maybe it is also just an Oliver thing.  In the meantime, he has started eating hard carrots and unsoaked lamb starter. yay!


 Glad Oliver is still improving... :leap: :hug:


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