# More 4-H questions



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

My kids finally were able to start their meetings tonight! We were supposed to start on Jan 4th, but umm...Ithma decided to go into labor that evening... :laugh:

My kids are the only ones showing goats, and they don't have a lot of kids showing animals, but that's okay  They have an open goat show at the fair, and are pushing to get the 4-H youth show sometime in July, because the fair starts so early they want the kids to show for state fair closer to the state fair <in late Aug>.
That gives us a little time.

BUT, I think my kids want to try showing percentage does. We have 1 on the ground, and hoping to get another doeling out of our other girls. Our goats will be registered through IBGA. I'm wondering if I will get their papers back in time for the deadline? I know we have to have them no later than June 1st. I wonder if after I send them in I can call and try to get them back sooner if I explain that it's for my kids 4-H projects?

Also...I know you have to tone your goat by running and walking them. She did say they will get videos and references for the kids to help, but with no one showing in our county I kinda worry.
Biggest issue is learning and teaching my kids to learn how to stand their goat. I am not sure how you teach them to stretch out?

And any recommended feed? I have to do a lot of this on a stay at home mom's budget so I want to start looking into this now, so I can be somewhat prepared in case my kids do try for the open show and then July show too.

Another thing is getting rid of the sunken in look around the hips. How do you maintain them to keep them from being sunken in? I know when they have full bellies it's not an issue, but then most people don't feed before a show, right?

What's the best collar/leash to use? Or does it depend on the county? We just have a regular nylon collar and dog leash right now that we use.

And how do you get your goats used to being away from the others/in a strange environment? Do you ever just load them up and take them down the road and walk them? LOL!!!

Just some things on my mind after the meeting tonight.

I forgot to mention a thing that worried me was the vet check, but I found out when they do the state verifcation check, they have some of those set up with a vet so the kids can get their animals vet checked, so that's a relief. It's hard to find a vet around here for goats, and the one I know of wants to charge a lot just to come out, so I couldn't imagine a vet check charge


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi there! SO HAPPY to hear the kids will be starting 4H (and goats to boot! Yahoo!)....

Crazy as it sounds... check YouTube for video's on showing market/meat goats... it's a good place to see some "big" shows, and how they setup and such. Some area's do NOT stretch the market animals out...some do... it kind of depends on the area and on the judge. If your unsure, I would set them up pretty square...just a touch out in the rear leg set. The stretch goes hand-in-hand with "bracing" which is pressing your knee into the chest to cause the loin area muscling to "brace"/harden/tighten...whatever you want to call it.  

Another idea would be to practice setting up both ways so you've got the training in to do it.... and then ask the judge before the show which way he/she prefers the kids to setup their animals. A good judge will always give a little talk before the show to help the kids understand what is expected of them. If you find out that they aren't going to give a talk, then try to ask the judge before the show starts...every judge I've ever dealt with has been so gracious and kind when it came to the kids and any show related questions. :thumb: 

As for feed... we feed Payback/Paymaster to our market goats and it was a very good and cost effective feed. We also feed about 1/4 - 1/2 flake alfalfa each day in addition to the free-choice pelleted feed. Another very competitive farm here uses Purina Honor N-Timidator feed with very good results too. We also feed a small amount of Goat Balancer or manna Pro Calf Manna. They get free choice Meat maker Sweetlix minerals and free choice sea kelp meal too. 

We clip them a few weeks before fair so that the hair growth is less than 1inch. Don't clip below the knee/hocks...leaving that longer hair gives the appearance of larger bone. Also trim the hooves regularly so that the goats grow correctly and learn to stand nice and tall up on their feet. Trim the hooves very parallel with the ground/coronet band, again so they're standing upright on their feet/pasturns.

As for exercise: We have found the BEST thing to be a 15 minute routine of walking and/or trotting UP hill... WORKS GREAT! Makes some awesome hindend muscling! Don't over do it though. If you feel they need to work more, do 15 min in the morning, & 15 mins in the evening. Make sure they always have fresh clean water in clean buckets so they keep up their hydration...helps with muscle building, skin & coat condition, etc.

It's pretty late for me, and I'm awful tired, so I'm sure I've forgotten a million things... at this point I'm hoping everything I have typed makes sense.  

I'm sure there are MANY MORE people here that are VERY educated in showing meat goats...I only know what I've learned from my daughters 4H career in market goats... the others here should give you some awesome info!! I'm excited to hear what they say too!


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

Wow that is alot to try to cover in a single post...So I will hit just a few.[attachment=0:2hxgqpe6]goatcollar2.jpg[/attachment:2hxgqpe6]
This is the basic "show lead" that we use. If you look at my thread about 4H showing you can see my son has this type of lead while he is in the ring. All other times we use a one piece nylon halter lead rope combination, One of the pictures shows him leading the goat with it. So essentially, we lead the goat to the show ring with the nylon lead then just before they go into the ring we switch to a Show lead, pictured above. Sometimes we use a "pinchy" sort of collar with a single snap, kind of like those pinchy dog collars, but only if we have an over unruly animal, usually a buck....so that is the show lead answer, I hope..
You say you will be showing in an open show. Who is sanctioning the show? ABGA,IBGA,USBGA? When you find out you can simply refer to their rules to know what is and what is not allowed. There should be a show superintendent, he/she would be the person to contact. FYI...seldom is bracing allowed. Breeding animals, as it appears you want to show, would be set-up to look their best with the least amount of touching by you...Takes some practice. It would be best for you to attend a few shows as a spectator to get the feel of how things work and what is expected, open shows that is.
registration papers...To show at a sanctioned show you will need paperwork when you check the goat in the day of the show. You will also need the information prior to that day when you fill out your registration paper for the show that you send in several weeks before. In Indiana, at the 4H level, does shown in the % classes Do Not need registration paperwork. They are simply tagged on the weigh-in day, if they are not tattooed, and their information is recorded. Here if you want to show at the state level, all animals must have a retina scan for identification, as well. I don't know your rules, You will have to ask someone in your county/state that does know.
Fitting...This can go from slick shearing, for wethers, to almost "No Touch" for breeding does. My guess is if you are not COMPLETELY comfortable with running a clipper on a goat, especially if you are showing very young does, DO NOT attempt to clip them at all.....Hard to teach a fitting class on-line. If you are unsure, go to a show and note what the animals look like, especially in the classes that you will be showing in. For young doelings I would clip VERY little. Any stray/long hairs, maybe alittle around the udder, providing she has something you want to show off and not a bunch of extra teats,trim the hair at the hoof line to give a nice straight divider between leg and hoof, maybe touch up her tail alittle, show sheen ,Hoof brite for her hooves, then into the ring....For your first time fitting you might want to try a month before your show, in case you really botch the job....4H level shows are much more forgiving than Open Sanctioned shows...
feed....................this is getting too long..........
email me if you like with any Specific questions and I will try to get back to you...surprising how many form answers I have saved to these exact questions, saves me time and includes things that I forget...Our 4H goat group sponsors an open IBGC show every June. The night before the show there are fitting classes and general show knowledge speakers. It is a good primer for the 4hers, as our fair is early July, and most of them show in the Junior show.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!  All of this info is GREAT! I will bookmark it, start checking local stores for the right show collars/prices, check on the feeds, and check youtube for the videos. 

I appreciate you both taking the time to type all of that, I know it was a lot to ask, so THANK YOU AGAIN. With my kids being the only ones in 4-H in our county to show goats, they don't have anyone else that could help them. 

I do have one more question

At what age do you recommend leash training? I was thinking 2 1/2 to 3 months?

Is there different kinds of calf manna? I've bought calf manna before, but don't think it was pro calf manna.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

You can start lead training as soon as the kid is standing, if you like. Generally I wait until they are a few weeks old then I start to slip the nylon lead on them every once in a while. Then as they get older the lead and halter are no big deal to the kid. Anytime I have to move them or every few days I "lead" them with the halter, most take to leading with no issues, some bucks don't like it and some big wethers. 
Your feed ration is going to be determined by the type of animals that you are going to show. If you are showing young doelings, I would leave them with their mother as long as possible. Let them go back out to the pasture with her. Young doelings should not look fat but rather should have a "rumeny" looking belly and look like a replacement breeding doe, leaving them with her will keep them nursing and eating hay. Maybe wean them at 100-120 days then start them on a small amount of ration and all the hay they want, to limit the "fat" that they put on and increase their belly/barrel/depth by encouraging rumen activity...A wether, on the other hand, would be fed in a diferent manner because you would want a fat looking "slaughter" animal come show day. If you look at the pictures in the other thread you cab get an idea of exactly what a doe should look like, conditionwise. Remember all those animals are fullbloods and are almost a year old in the pictures, but you can get an idea of their fill and shape. I feed all my show animals Show Tech Elite Goat made by ADM. 17% protein///3.5% fat with deconoquinate added....I would consider this one of the "top shelf" feeds; expensive but worth it. Calf Manna is an even more expensive feed alternative. It is not specifically formulated for Show Goats and although it has advantages the price is the limiting factor. I do use Probios, made by Manna Pro, as a top dress to stimulate the rumen. Might help your little doelings come early summer...


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