# single kids and future litter size



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

My ND doeling, Snickers, was a single out of a very very young doe that was accidently bred without the owner's knowledge. Apparently, the birth went smoothly and momma was very good at taking care of her baby, until I bought Snickers as a bottle baby so the mom could dry up and keep growing.

I'm wondering, do FF usually have smaller litters? Could the dam have larger litters later, especially since she was so very young at kidding (less than 1 year at kidding http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_shocked.gif) Could Snickers have multiples, or is she likely to have singles like her dam? Or is this one of those things that is completely up to chance and you can't predict trends in litter size in a bloodline at all?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

There is an "old wives tale" of sorts that some people say that goats will have a single their first kidding and then tend towards twins every year after that but I don't think there is anything to support that.

She can definitely have larger litter sizes in the future even though she was a single and her first kidding was a single. 

You can "flush" her prior to breeding which means feeding a high protein feed for several weeks and it supposedly causes the doe to release more eggs at during the heat cycle. Some folks swear by this for increasing the sets of triplets. I would assume there are studies to support this but haven't done any research as I don't practice it.


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## MoonShadow (Mar 1, 2015)

Yup, agreed. I know one gal in particular(breeds NDs) who almost always gets twins and triplets out of her FF sometimes quads. She breeds hers at 8 months (I personally think thats to young) so when they kid they are just over a year, so thats still pretty young. Basically, its just a luck of the draw. Though it probably has something to do with genetics as well.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Litter size tends to often be genetic from what I've seen with Nigerians. Often a doe that throws smaller litters, her daughter will be the same way. Now that's not always true, but I would say more often than not. 

First fresheners also tend to have smaller litters from my experience. I usually see twins on a first freshening, sometimes singles, sometimes triplets. It seems like litter size is generally larger on the second freshening. 

I can think of one of my does that had a single her FF, then quads on her 2ndF. 

Good health and nutrition also plays a big part.


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

I guess I haven't been raising goats long enough to really say anything for certain, but my impression so far is that kidding sizes are dependent on feed and nutrition, not genetics. 

This year I experimented with feed flushing and I had three sets of quadruplets, and one of those sets was out of a first freshener. None of my goats are a quadruplet themselves - only two of them are from triplets, with the majority being from twins and singles. The buck I used was a single kid.

This is just me thinking, but what would be genetic is how well an animal absorbs nutrients and turns that into babies, milk, etc. If a doe puts her nutrition into something other than growing her babies, she would then likely have a smaller kidding and then her kids would probably do the same. :shrug:


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Just my :2cents: nothing more.
My goats have pretty much the same food every year. 

My StarryNight had a single, then triplets, then twins. She is one of quads.

Angel has had twins, trips, twins, trips, twins and we are waiting to see if she follows the pattern this year.

Her mother also followed the 2, 3, 2, 3, 2 pattern.

I have had several who have triplets as a FF and then have only twins there after. 

Starr had 3, 2, 2, 3, 2.

So, my wizened opinion is.....................
wait for it........................................


It's a crapshoot!:laugh:


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks, everyone!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it's genetics and feed lol I know people who will yell from the top of the roof top it's genetics and they will not keep any single because it will be more prone to singles. I'm almost to year 7 with goats and I have kept many kids from my first goats and on and on and none of the genetic ideas make total sense to me. Heidi, a doe I had had nothing but singles for me. I couldn't not keep them because they were to stunning lol she was never fed any different then any other goat and always had a decent body score. So I kept 4 of her kids, one is now sold after kidding twice one is just now being bred for the first time. All of them except this last one has given me anything but twins. 
Comet has had triples for me from the start. Her first kidding I kept a girl out of. Single the first time twins the next. Her twin sister singles twice with her owner. Suzy my old gal I lost this year. She always had triples one year a single the next. She was one no matter how much feed you crammed down her she gave it all to her triplets. So with her it makes sense. The triples dragged her down so her body was smart and let her have a single the next year even though no matter how many kids she had she always plumped back up after they were weaned. I also bought hay that was full of weeds (which I found out if cut at the right time is very high in protein) and fed the goats this weedy alfalfa right before and durning breeding. I did this twice and had more triplets and quads then I ever had. This year I'm feeding really good hay that tested just below being #1 alfalfa. I'm curious to see what I get in number of kids.


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