# Azalea withdrawal time for Lamancha?



## freestargirl (Sep 4, 2016)

Hi,

New to the group.

About 52 hours ago, my daughter gave our 3 Lamancha's some azalea clippings, having no clue they are poisonous. They are fine. They are going to make it. Our 1 milker doe is almost back to 100% normal. 
The local vet advice, was to dose all with Banamine to make them feel better, to encourage eating and drinking to help them pass it. We know there is 72 hr withdrawal time for the single dose we gave our doe. 
What the vet did not know for sure, was if and what is the withdrawal time on milk after consuming the azalea. She seemed to think that after the doe was back to normal, that it would probably be ok, but she wasn't SURE.
My hubby is a research scientist in a chemical lab, but knows nothing about animal or plant science, and doesn't have the right equipment to test samples. He stayed up all night last night searching the internet and found nothing concrete. He likes concrete. He is angry that he's having to dump the milk. I'm waiting to be added to the Facebook group, "Goat Vet Corner" so I can ask if any of them know.
My hubby found forum posts similar to this, asking, and anecdotal answers, but anecdotal isn't really good enough. We have 1 doe for milk for our family. Our 5 & 7 yr olds go thru goats milk like there is no tomorrow. Azalea is toxic to animals and toxic to humans, so as long as there are residual toxins in the milk, we don't want to give it to our kids. 
Many people have said that the plants don't make it thru to the milk, but we know medicines do, we know a change in diet can alter the flavor of milk. So clearly what an animal takes into it's body does make it to the milk. 
I would think this would be something that was studied, somewhere, since goats seem to consume toxic plants regularly. 
I'm not trying to sound standoffish or like a know it all. I just want to know that I'm dumping the milk long enough and not dumping too much unnecessarily. 

Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know of any hard rule on dumping milk from toxic plants. If you are worried about it then go at least 2 weeks if not longer.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I don't know but I'm interested in hearing what you find out.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Problem is there are no solid studies on goats, it's always cattle,sheep and swine. I feel your frustration, I hope you find a concrete answer. If you do, we'd love to hear it. Good luck!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The poison contained in Azaleas is water soluble, a salt actually. Once the animal is back to drinking well the kidneys are going to clear it out in short order. I know when my black doe was poisoned with Rhododendron, her kids didn't get sick from her milk even though she was nursing them as soon as she could stand well. It is the same poison compound in both plants.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Great to know, Goat Hiker. I looked at all my human lactation stuff but since human moms don't tend to nibble on azaleas I didn't find anything. So many things can affect whether of not something can pass into milk, & how much of it, including molecule size (larger molecules tend to have a harder time) & how quickly the substance leaves the mother's bloodstream. The mom's body also regulates some of it--for instance, the level of iron that is transferred from a human mom's bloodstream into her milk will remain constant no matter how much iron supplement she takes. There's a book I use when counseling nursing moms called Medications & Mothers' Milk by Thomas Hale. It's really great--very detailed & totally scientific. It even has info on a lot of common herbs. Unfortunately it's kind of expensive. As to its applicability to caprine lactation, who knows.


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## freestargirl (Sep 4, 2016)

*Just an update....*

My request to join Goat Vet Corner on FB finally got approved and I asked my question, and 1 vet answered and this is what he said

" interesting question ... no study I am familiar with due to the nature of the problem -- studying the after-effects of a specific plant toxicity

I would think if the effects are gone in the doe, the milk would be cleared (if there was any residue in the milk)

direct ingestion doe snot appear to be as big a deal as one would think (depending on dose), so a mild residue in milk is going to be even less of an issue in my mind

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4057315 "

But here is what I can tell you. My hubby deduced that since the goat ingested the azalea around 4 pm, it hadn't fully digested yet when the milk in her udder was being produced that he milked out about 8 hrs post-azalea. And even though we don't know HOW much she ate, she had the least amount compared to her weight because she bounced back quicker than the other 2.
He tried a small amount in his coffee this AM, less than he normally uses, complained that his coffee tasted too much like actual coffee, and about 45 minutes later, said the back of his throat felt very dry, so he dumped out the rest of the milk from that milking and the next morning, when she was at her worst, symptom wise.

And yes, Catharina, I was pulling what I too, know about human lactation, having breastfed for 9 yrs (and counting) and having a mom who is an IBCLC, which translated to alot of calls of "Hey can you ask your mom this for me? Or do you know?"


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Yes! There are some surprising differences between human & goat lactation (like goat mastitis is contageous--who would have thought!) so I'm still learning. I spent 13 years nursing babies...and toddlers...and even bigger toddlers...that first mammogram was a walk in the park compared to everything else that they'd been through by then! :laugh:


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## Steampunked (Mar 23, 2015)

I do know that azalea and rhododendron nectar makes a honey that poisons humans if the bees collect heavily from it. It produces 'mad honey' - from the grayanotoxin.

I don't know if anyone's died from eating the honey, but people have used it to poison one another (nausea, vomiting), and it can cause breathing difficulties.


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## freestargirl (Sep 4, 2016)

We read about the 'mad honey'! That's so interesting! After reading about it, my hubby considered cutting them down and trying to dig the roots out. The azaleas are the first thing he planted at our house and is very attached to them. He moved halfway across the country a few years before we met, and the hardest part was leaving his grandmother that he was very close to. She had a whole yard of azaleas. I think we only have 3 of them, but they are massive and right in front of our porch, so we have to keep them trimmed. I knew they were toxic to dogs, but our dogs never really messed with them, other than laying underneath them in the shade. We actually do have honeybees, and I've seen all kinds of wild bees and butterflies allover the azaleas when they bloom, but never the honeybees. I guess some bees are smart enough to stay away from them! It's so interesting though, because the area we live in has a fair amount of beekeepers, and rhodedenrons grow wild here allover the place, as well as azaleas being very popular in lawns and as hedges. All very intersting. Our goats made it. All back to normal.


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## Spring Hill Farmstead (Jul 10, 2021)

I realize this thread is from years ago but I had 16 of my milkers eat azaleas and were poisoned. No one seems to know a milkwithold on Dairy goats for cheese production. Is there anyone out there now with any answers? I milk 24 La Manchas and without the milk from the 16 I look forward to dismal days with no cheesemaking and no income to speak of. To say we already run on tight margins is no exaggeration and if we have to wait 2 weeks or longer it will be a catastrophe for our business which barely covers the goats' expenses. If a goat had died the vets could maybe find an answer but one by one 15 of them are back to normal after less than 48 hours. I gave them charcoal paste (full tubes) while they were still reaching and spewing. Oh and they pooped nonstop! I made electrolyte punch and filled their water barrels, free choice baking soda and lots of fresh alfalfa hay. There are 2 sets of twins nursing recovered does and none of those kids showed any symptoms at any time. Reaching out here hoping there is some sort of update on this situation. Thanks so much for any replies!
Karin, Spring Hill Farmstead Goat Cheese


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

@goathiker may know


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