# Barberpole worms?



## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

Help! I think my goats have BPW. We had to take the baby (almost 5 months old) to the vet to get her eyelid stitched (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33608) and towards the end of the visit I noticed that she had a tiny bit of swelling under her jaw. Bottlejaw? The vet wasn't overly concerned but then again she didn't look at it for long since we were on the way out.

The swelling went away yesterday and came back today. Just a tiny squishy pocket in that cavity in her jaw. Is this bottlejaw? :?

I gave the mom doe a round of Red Cell last month for her anemia. Both she and her kid were borderline on the FAMACHA chart. I haven't checked the baby since I noticed the jaw thing going on.

I can take fecals to the vet since I'm not set up to do my own but if it's pretty certain that they have BPW I'll just pass the fecals and go straight to treatment. I've been giving my goats Molly's Herbal worm formula so far...the doe got Ivermectin in fall for possible lungworms but the baby has never gotten regular dewormers. Right now all I have is horse paste: Zimecterin, Anthelcide EQ, Pyrantel Paste, and 1.87% Ivermectin paste (Farnam). Would any of these work? What would y'all suggest I do?

:help: I'm a little freaked out here as I've heard that BPW are some of the worst...don't want to lose or hurt my goats so help and advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Zimecterin Gold, actually. It's ivermectin 1.55% and praziquantel 7.75%. From looking around on the forums it seems like this would be the best dewormer to use that I have? :help:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

If she does have enough of a BP load to cause the bottlejaw, ivermectin is usually the drug that kills them...I use nothing but the horse pastes when needed so I can't say about other types of wormers, be aware though that when the symptoms show a high load, dosing orally can cause a mass detachment and cause other problems to come about such as bleeding internally and blockages ccaused by the dead worms. I would really consider getting your vets input on diagnosis/treatment.

Paste wormers need to be dosed at triple the goats weight. 1/4cc every 10 daysa will worm a (tripled weight) 52lb goat


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

 OK. I'll talk to the vet about it.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

I've been worrying myself sick over this all day and when I finally went outside and hung out with the goats for awhile...I came away encouraged that they are still alive, happy, and behaving normally. =) So I'm a lot less panicky now than I was when I first posted. I sent an email to the vet and my goat's breeder to see what they would recommend. I'm pretty sure the feed store carries ivermectin injectable, so I should be able to get that easily if it would be the best. Though I guess it's a good all-around wormer to have on hand...


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## nonconformist (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Ivomec given orally will kill the larvae. Give a high dose, 1cc per 10 lbs. This is really high but BBPW are deadly very fast once bottle jaw is present.

For the adults, COWP (copper oxide wire particles) are the only thing I have found will kill them. These are the copasure bolus. Give at least a 6 gram bolus to a 50 lb kid.

If your goat is severely anemic at this point, drenching B12 (found in nutri-drench or power-punch) will help. Also a diluted drench of ACV (apple cider vinegar) will help with the absorption of iron. Use 10cc diluted 2:1 with water.

This is only a recommendation based on what works for me, not veterinary advice. Hope this helps.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Ok. Let's see...I have the sheep/goat NutriDrench, I can give that and the ACV today, probably in her grain. I'm seeing about getting Ivomec Plus since that is what my doe's breeder suggested. I'll look into the copper bolus. Thanks!


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

The lady I bought my doe from came over today and gave both the goats Ivomec Plus shots. She looked at both goats and didn't seem that worried about them. Neither of them are bloated or wasting away...they are both looking healthy, active...eating well and stuff. So I'm going to trust her since she lives nearby and has had goats for a really long time. =)

(I'm less worried about the goats now.)


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Sounds like you have taken the right steps an have gotten alota info. I just wanted to commet on the bottlejaw. I dont have any experience with it but what I understand bottlejaw doesnt come an go an will not be just a small knot. I dont know for sure I would look into it though. Once they have bottlejaw they go down really fast like within hours. Like I said not sure just wanted to throw that out there. Im sure someone here would know alot more about it. Glad everything went well for your goaties.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Thanks for that info, Marcey. That's something I had wondered about. From talking on the phone with my goat mentor (the one who came and gave the wormers) it sounds like if a goat has bad bottlejaw from an infestation they would also be going downhill and be bloated or losing weight...neither of my goats show those symptoms, so I guess I should do some more research on bottlejaw. The only other symptom they have of a possible infestation is copper deficiency, but that's not even directly related. *shrug*


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Hehe...I feel rather silly now...I looked around the internet at photos of goats with bottlejaw and my goat is NOWHERE NEAR as swollen as some of these other goats...so I guess I'll watch Stella for the next couple of days and see if the dewormer knocks out the little bit of swelling that she does? have. =)


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

The swelling could be from her keeping her head down alot. When she was stiched if she was drowsey or in pain, it could have caused a little edema


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*

Ohhhh...that is brilliant! I never thought of that. Thanks, dobe627!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*



nonconformist said:


> Ivomec given orally will kill the larvae. Give a high dose, 1cc per 10 lbs. This is really high but BBPW are deadly very fast once bottle jaw is present.
> 
> For the adults, COWP (copper oxide wire particles) are the only thing I have found will kill them. These are the copasure bolus. Give at least a 6 gram bolus to a 50 lb kid.
> 
> ...


Copper does not kill the worms but proper levels of copper in the goat will help their ability to resist worms. At least that is what all studies I know of show. Did you actually treat with only copper and have the wormload die off?

Copasure is 1gram per 22# so 6 grams would be the amount you would give a 132# goat. 
Too much Copper can be toxic and it can take months to fully leach into the system. 
Did you do testing with your goats to know level before and after bolus? How often do you dose?

I so hope you do not take my questions as a attack I am just really curious since it is so different then everything I have heard in the past. I have found for my herd that most do well bolusing a little lower like I do 2grams for 50-60# but I also am doing it every 4-5 months now since I was finding that the levels were begining to drop before the 6 month mark that older studies showed it lasted.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Blue- barberpole is a really bad and fast worm. With bottlejaw it will seam better in the AM and worse at night. Many wormers _should_ work for it.. Ivermctin, valbazen and more but that will depend on your herds regular worming protical. If you worm regularly with say Ivermectin then there could be resistance. Barberpole has a horribly great ability to grow immune to wormers. Fecal check should determine if your goats have a high count or need treating.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

The baby has only been wormed once, with ivermectin. The doe has, I think, been rotated with ivermectin and a few others...I don't know exactly. I've been using Molly's Herbal Worm formula.


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## nonconformist (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Help! Barberpole worms?*



freedomstarfarm said:


> nonconformist said:
> 
> 
> > Ivomec given orally will kill the larvae. Give a high dose, 1cc per 10 lbs. This is really high but BBPW are deadly very fast once bottle jaw is present.
> ...


It is difficult to overdose a goat on Copper using COWP. Not saying it can't happen. My test was a severely anemic doe with bottle jaw. I had used valbazen a few weeks before leading up to this point and regular Ivomec dose 1 week prior. Fearing I would lose the doe anyway I dismissed the normal protocol recommended. I gave a large Nubian doe that had lost significant weight rapidly a full 12.5g copasure bolus and 1cc per 10 lbs Ivomec orally. Bottle jay persisted for another 6 days at which point I gave a second full copper bolus and within 2 days the bottle jaw was gone. I also drenched diluted ACV and Nutri-drench for 4 days straight. That cured her and several weeks later she was back to normal with pink eyelids that were white.

So when a 60lb buck kid developed the same bottle jaw the same summer, I gave a 6g bolus and Ivomec 1cc per 10 lbs. 1 dose and it worked.

I live in a severely copper and selenium deficient area. Now I bolus 3 times per year. 1 full bolus for a mature Nubian. That is the only time I use a synthetic dewormer. Other than BBPW I do not have issues with internal parasites. From my experience, proper levels of Copper prevent high parasite loads and the need for chemical deworming.

I have never personally heard of a goat dying of copper toxicity, but I have come across several issues with copper deficiency.

This is just what I do. Just sharing in case this information can help save another goat.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

I've started both goats on Red Cell. Going to bring in fecal samples to the vet either tonight or tomorrow. How soon after giving the Ivomec Plus injection should I be getting results?


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Ivomec PLUS is a must for goats with bottle Jaw. Bottle Jaw is commonly caused by liver flukes.... although they can be mistaken for Barberpole in fecal checks. Make sure to give her injectable iron or red cell when you deworm.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

Hmm, I didn't know that about liver flukes. Interesting. Yes, I'm giving Red Cell. They got their dewormer shot three days ago and I started with the Red Cell today. Planning to give it every day for a week and then wait and see how they do. My goats' previous owner said that one shot of the Ivomec would work but I'm wondering if I should plan on doing the three shots 10 days apart? I don't want them to build up resistance. I guess I'll see what the vet says.


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## BlueMoonSpot (May 11, 2012)

I forgot to give Red Cell today so I'll give the last dose tomorrow. I got a fecal report back from the vet on the older doe and she didn't turn out to have BPW...just a moderate amount of strongyles. I've been giving her a garlic-based dewormer (which I guess is working) but I'm wondering now if perhaps the garlic is making her anemic. I'll take her off that dewormer and try some other herbs for a while...just to see if getting rid of the garlic makes a difference. Would it be okay to give another week of Red Cell? Last time I did it it didn't seem to do much in just one round. Anyways, I dunno if I need to do the follow up shot of Ivomec tomorrow...don't want them to build up resistance but I hate sticking them with needles when I don't absolutely have to. Still waiting for the doeling to supply me with "berries" so I can try doing an egg count myself. =P


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give the Ivomec orally for stomach worms.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I had never gotten BP worm on a fecal until this year. With the record mild winter here in NY the parasites did not get killed off but remained dormant ready to attack come spring. My vet who sees a lot of goats said ivermectin wasn't doing it so he recommended either cydectin or zimectrin gold. I used the ZG and it did the trick. Meanwhile I gave Fortified B complex for a week and followed it up with molasses which has always worked great for pale membranes.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I was at a goat & sheep seminar last year and the vets at the seminar said that COWP does kill barberpole worm on contact for up to 18 hours. There was a USDA vet from Arkansas (if I remember the state correctly) that was actually doing a study to see how low doses of COWP monthly would help. At that point, her study was very promising.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I would give the Ivomec orally for stomach worms.


 :thumbup:


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