# Soft stool in 11 week old pygmy



## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

We have had our two eleven week old female ("commercial" rather than pedigree) pygmies home for 10 days now. They were checked over thoroughly by a highly recommended goat vet on the way home from picking them up. They got the CD+T vaccine but vet wanted to wait to worm them when she sees them after they are home 4 weeks to allow their feeding to become well established and so as not to complicate things for their digestion and adjustment. They are eating orchard grass hay and purina (?) goat chow. Hay is refreshed morning and evening. The goat chow we are giving about 1/2 cup per goat in the morning and a little less in the evening. We had started with a little less but increased it as they seemed to want more. They have clean fresh water 2x day.

I've noticed some stools that look a bit soft and some that are pellets, but I wasn't sure - as our chickens kept getting into the goat area, pellets were getting squashed etc. But today my daughter watched carefully and the black goat pooped soft squishy black, the other is pooping pellets. 

Should we be concerned? They seem happy. They were skiddish at first as they had not been handled until we got them but they are warming up to us.

Thank you!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it could be diet change or more than likely Cocci...I would take a stool sample of both girls to the vet to have a fecal done to be sure...the problem with waiting to worm is the stress of them moving to a new home opens the way for worm load..stress lowers the immune system of a goat...For the one with the runs I would not give grain until he firms up..hay and fresh water only...get a fecal done ASAP because if she does have cocci she can go downhill quickly...A sulfa drug is prefered over Corid which is a thiamine inhibitor, which can cause goat polio in goats..Thiamine is Vit B 1 and a goat needs this to survive..if corid is all you can find then add fortified B complex to their daily ruitine while on Corid and two days after to help prevent polio..(vets tend to think this is not a problem but it is a huge problem...Goats have been lost due to it) Best of luck and congrats on your new babies..they are adorbale


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Thank you Cathy. I will see what I can do. Vet is an hour away.... but you are scaring me!


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Oh and I did stop grain today. On both, because they are together... but I guess we can try to get one to eat her grain separately.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dont be scared  if you cant get stool samples to a vet..go ahead and treat for Cocci..it wont hurt to be on the safe side...choose Sulmet or Albon..: ) Im sorry I scared you ..didnt mean to..just want you to be aware of the thiamine issue..
you treat once a day for five days...the meds are nasty bitter so expect the girls to act like you poisoned them..but they will be fine


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Thank you Cathy. I appreciate your wisdom and expertise. Called the vet who is SO NICE even though I haven't even sent a check in yet for their first visit. She called right back and took time with me, and said this:

- It could be cocci but she doubts it at this point because they are alone here with no herd to make them sicker. Whatever they came to us with would have no reason to suddenly get worse 10 days later. It COULD happen but is not as likely as a feed issue. 

- As for parasites, she is not worried about anything but tape worm at this point. She will worm them in 2.5 weeks unless one / both get sicker meanwhile.

- She said hold the grain from the black one (the one with loose / now a soft stool... maybe she is improving already?).

- Keep them away from the chicken feed!~!!!!!! AHHH!!! They have been sneaking in the chicken door - gotta stop that!

- Give 3-5cc of Pepto (just did that - hope that was the right dose)

- Clean her bottom so we can tell if she is still having diarrhea.

- If she continues w/runny stools bring her in. If she is weak or lethargic / stops playing or won't eat hay, bring her in. If she will still show interest in just a few kernels of Goat Chow, she is likely still ok or maybe on the mend.

So, that's the plan at the moment. Watching her for an hour now and no diarrhea again. You know, how it always gets better right AFTER you call the doctor? Still worried - she does look a little thinner than she was yesterday.

Karen

mom to 7 human kids, 3 sons-in-law, 2 grandbabies, a tank of tropical fish, a Chocolate Lab, 2 cats, 9 chickens plus 1 just identified as a rooster so he has to GO (zoning)....

And 2 new African Pygmy Goats yet to be named (thinking of Razzle & Dazzle, Kit & Kat, Jazzy & Sassy, Sugar & Spice, or Boots & _____ , or maybe Daffodil & Dandelion after my dad's goats long ago - aka "Daffy & Dandy") 

oh - and a recently deceased African Fat Tail Gecko and Albino Gerbil who are in the freezer till we have a "funeral"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Chicken feed will certainly cause runs....

Cocci can kick up during times of stress...goats carry the cocci and as adults have an immunity against them..but kids dont have that immunity..so if your girls were exposed to cocci in their previous home..then the stress of moving, new home new feed ect...could very well woke them up...I would keep a close eye on them and if the runs return...have treatment ready...here is a bit of reading on Cocci...I use Baycox which needs to be order from horseprerace.com if you want to have something good on hand..other wise if she does not seem to improve then grab sulmet at tactor supply..
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/coccidiosis06.html


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Ok I was headed to feed store to return that ROOSTER but we were delayed by the sick goat. I will see if they have Sulmet. We are 90 minutes from a Tractor Supply.

(I'm an RN which makes me more dangerous... perhaps!)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..the medical training can make your head spin over details...
you wont fine Baycox at the store ( unless perhaps you are Austrailia??) Baycox is Cocci treatment for horses...
Any good farm supply store should carry either sulmet or Abon or Di-methox : )


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

We are in Pennsylvania, and I fixed my boo boo!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol...


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Headed to the pharmacy and vet to get her full of meds.... she is not worse, but not better.


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

We have had her on Bactrin since Friday and we wormed both goats with white wormer (smaller dose for the sick goat). She seemed to be improving over the weekend, stools like soft little logs, liquid stool less often. 

Vet is wonderful, she was calling to check in twice a day. Cautioned us about all the things to watch for, said to call her cell day or night if goat worsened. Watch for polio symptoms etc.

Little goat's belly started getting rounder again on Saturday. I think i felt / heard her rumen grumbling and she was chewing her cud (?). Still the log stools though. 

We began 1/8 cup grain morning and evening on Saturday. She was begging for more but we didn't give it. She's eating lots of hay - fortunately. But my dad saw her eating straw too, from her bedding!! And some pine chips that snuck out of the chicken nesting area overhead. Argh! 

Then, today she pooped soft clumpy individual large pellets! We were so encouraged!

She seems happy throughout this ordeal and her kids are pink-red, she is drinking water and peeing often.

But this afternoon and evening her bleat was suddenly weirdly faint as if she has laryngitis for a few hours. Then, it suddenly cleared up and she was yelling for my daughter whenever we left their pen! 

We closed her in our mini barn for the night at 8 thinking she was on the mend, and went to check her at 10:30 - several LIQUID STOOLS in their sleeping area again!!!! Argh!!! 

She's still happy, jumping in and out of her bed platform etc. probably a little quieter than prior to sickness though.

In summary, she's not really worse than Friday - I guess she's a little better since her belly is rounded out some and the soft stool is more frequent But this back and forth thing with liquid stool again is so frustrating! 

Oh, she did get into the chicken feed / area twice today for just a minute. My daughter watched her squeeze thru the chicken door that we had blocked off to about 1/4th the size (!) and ran and got her out fast - but could that little snatch and grab that have given her the runs again so quickly?

Or maybe this yo-yo healing process is to be expected?

Taking her to the vet tomorrow is possible but I would miss an entire afternoon of work - it's an hour away. If she needs to go I have to, obviously. But I don't want to go if this is normal recovery from diarrhea, which was possibly from chicken feed snacking or cocci (we think)

Oh my. I know - give her thiamine/B1.... And "Happy Bleats" electrolytes - gotta go get molasses etc.

Falling asleep from goat nurse duty...apologies for typos.

Thank you, all, for any advice .

Karen


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

I meant she's on Bactrim (sulphametoxazole-TMP). She's sneezed a few times - afraid its now pneumonia!!??


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

at this point I would begin treating for a bacterial diarrah...Neomycin sulfate is an safe oral antibiotic you can get from most farm supply stores..I would dose then 3-4 hours later give a pea size of Porbios paste...keep her on hay and no feed until she poops berries for 3-4 days in a row to prevent relapse...Take her temp as well..it should be 101.5-103.5 ....anything higher will help yuou decide if she needs medication for pueumonia...
keep up the good work..sounds like she might have a long road ahead of her..and you~ Blessings


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> And "Happy Bleats" electrolytes


I would love to take credit for this awesome home remedy but saddly I can not lol..I found it while searching when I needed something better than store bought stuff my goats would not drink

here is the origianl link  It has been a huge help to many of us...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/448578-homemade-electrolyte-solution.html


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Talked to the vet again. Hope this lady doesn't bill for phone consults because she has talked to me about 6 times on the phone since Friday. (LOVE this vet already!). She wants me to start probiotics but says they are hard to find in my area without ordering them. (Delaware County / Chester County in Southeastern PA - does anyone know a source?). She will be back at her office later this afternoon and check with her sources to find me some. Meanwhile we will start yogurt. 

Also she's going to prep me a B vit shot to pick up when we drop off a stool. She does not think it is pneumonia. I listened to the the goats lungs and they do sound clear. I can hear her rumen too, but it's fainter than in the healthy goat.

This baby does EAT like crazy - hay hay hay. And she is still peeing. We did give her 1/8 cup of grain this morning again, then we did see more liquid stool after that. ARGH. Vet says it COULD be that little bit of chicken feed she grabbed before we could stop her yesterday set her back again.... 

Vet thinks this is not life threatening but will take a while to get her straightened out.

We really have to settle on names for these girls... "Black Goat" and "Black & White Goat" just don't work in the meanwhile! Temporary names are "Razzle and Dazzle". This sick one should be FRAZZLE!


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Also vet does not want me to give her C+D antitoxin. Says it could be harmful if given when not needed in a young kid, and if she had needed it (for Enterotoxemia right?) she would be a lot sicker than she is. But she is eating like crazy and not acting sick, other than the soft / liquid / soft stool cycle.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have never heard of C D Antitoxin being harmful to any age goat..and what she does not need she will pee out, granted Ive only been in goats for 8 years lol but Im confused at why she would think so...with any medication there is always a risk of Anaphylactic shock...but its so rare the risk is well worth it when a goat is ill being prepared with epinephrine can give yu some peace of mind...if it was the chicken feed that set her off again the cd antitoxin will only help not hurt., but I do agree if she has entero she would be much sicker acting, off feed and so forth....with that said...you need to follow the advice that is most comfortable for you...here is a full detail information on C D Antitoxin
http://goat-link.com/content/view/159/168/#.Ub8mSfaDTL8


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## kidsnchicks (May 30, 2013)

Thanks Cathy! I will read more about it. My cousin's wife is a vet tech who works at New Bolton Center (for large animal emergencies - very well respected facility). It's at least an hour from me, though. I called their pharmacy and they do sell over the counter / Rx - so that is good to know as a source. 

They only have equine probiotic - said it's actually a human product - (Sacromiisis,,,barlid.....+ MOS ????) I guess I will order on line from a goat med place and baby will have to wait a day or two. 

I really need to get a "first aid kit" together and get much more educated. I'm at least thankful this baby is not getting WORSE... or not much worse. If she was very ill I would be a basket case! She is still hopping around and greeting us, and begging for grain (we aren't giving in) and eating hay hay hay. And we think we finally made the chicken entrance small enough to keep her out but still let the chickens SQUEEZE in.

I had nothing ELSE to do this month.... (NOT!)

Karen


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..they do keep us on our toes...lol...Jeffers is a good online source for ordering needed things.....Its good to keep emergency stuff on hand..things that if you need them you need the now kind of stuff like cd antitoxin, antibiotic, b complex...stuff like that..there is a thread on this here some where buti f you want a list..just ask...the folks here will give it to you in full : ) I owuld also ask your vet for a bottle of Thiamine..its fairly cheap..I keep it on hand at al times...my vet encourages that any time your goats off feed for any reason give thiamine as a matter of habit..it wont hurt but can help a ton
also if your vet will not allow you to buy what you want there are on line vet services that will...some vets will only give you a syringe dose here and there and question your every move...but some thngs you got to have on hand in an emergency..

Goat-link.com and Teneesseemeatgoats are both good teaching web sites as wel as fiasco farms if you like the holistic approach...

best wishes


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