# Help!! downed pregnant goat. cant get up



## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

Mocha is a pregnant Nubian goat. she has had kids before but this is her 1st time with us. she is due somewhere between the 10th and the 20th of this month. 

she seemd perfectly fine/normal last night. this morning when i went to feed the goats about an hour ago i noticed she was laying down and didnt get up when i walked over to her which was not normal at all. usually if she is laying down she will pop up before i can even get close. 

i tried to help her up but she is too weak. her hind end has no strength at all and her front end is only a little better than her hind. 
i went inside to call in to work and say i wont be there. when i came back outside she stood up (it was a huge struggle for her to stand and was painful for me to watch) and walked a very wobbly couple steps before falling over again. 

i live basically in the middle of no where and my vet wont treat goats (he only treats horses) so i am on my own to help her. 

any help or ideas are greatly appreciated. i live about an hour from the closest feed store but i already called my husband to let him know about Mocha. he is at work and is within 2 miles of the feed store so he can run and pick up anything i need him to get and bring it to me (that means i can get the stuff here a lot faster than if i had to go and get it myself.) 

what can/should i do to help her? i will be crushed if she doesnt make it. not to mention her unborn babies.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Pregnancy toxemia can happen in heavily pregbant animals. Please read this and see if it matches the symptoms you are seeing, also get a rectal temperature and check her membrane color right away.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

yes, that definitely sounds like it could be her problem. 
i just took her temp its 102.6

i checked her membrane color and it looks pretty pale. its probably between the 4 and the 5 on the picture you posted

Mocha is on the low end of the pecking order for the goats. its possible that she may not have been eating enough if another goat chased her off of the hay pile. 

i have a large syringe (60 mil) and Karo syrup at the house already. i dont have any molasses though. do you think i should just give her the karo syrup now to get it in her as fast as possible or should i wait until i can mix it like the link says to?


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Did you notice any difference in her feeding leading up to this? What have you been feeding her? When was her last worming? My first suspicion with a doe this close to kidding is pregnancy toxemia, but I don't want to be too quick to judge without knowing a bit more. If it is toxemia, she has to be treated asap with CMPK drench (calcium-magnesium-phosphorus-potassium), propylene glycol (or Karo syrup, for quick energy) or Nutri-drench, as it has the prop. glycol in it. These things are good to keep on hand (imo) with pregnant does anyway.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

the goats get a pile of alfalfa hay every morning (we have 7 goats and they get about a half of a bale of hay per day. the bales are 3 string 100# bales) along with a scoop of 12% goat feed sprinkled on top of the hay pile (it reminds me of horse sweet feed). mocha usually loves her food but she is lower on the pecking order so it is possible she was getting chased away and was not getting her fair share. she ran up for the food yesterday morning but i usually leave for work shortly after feeding the goats so i dont know like usual how much she actually ate or if she got chased off of the hay pile after i left. 
she seemed ok last night. i check on the goats when i fed the horses their dinner. she was up and walking around okay but i didnt really check the goats that carefully so its possible i missed something if she was a little "off" last night. 

her last worming was about 3 weeks ago. we went through and wormed all of the goats that day. we used Ivermectin 1% and gave it orally at 1cc per 35lbs

is cmpk something that feed stores or Tractor supply would carry?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay temperature is good. However the anemia is not. It's possible she is battling both Toxemia and parasite load.

I would go ahead and give her several tablespoons of Karo syrup for right now until you get a better grasp on the situation.

Could you move her to a private stall/pen within sight & sound of the other goats? You need to be able to put good quality hay and some feed in front of her without competition. Also a clean bucket of warm water.

Have you been feeding any grain/pellets/concentrates? What type of hay are you feeding?

If your husband is going to the store right away, I recommend Red Cell, Propylene Glycol, Blackstrap molasses, alfalfa pellets, and maybe a dewormer (Quest horse paste or Ivomec cattle injectable, NOT the plus versions.) 

Do you have any dewormers on hand? Has she been dewormed recently?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay sorry - I was typing while you were posting. So my last post has some redundant questions and purchases in it!

So you feed them on the ground? 

If Mocha is low on the totem pole she likely is cleaning up the pile of alfalfa & feed at the end when others are finished. Which means she is picking up a lot of feed from parasite contaminated ground. It is definitely best not to feed goats on the ground (unlike horses - I know!)


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes - a feed store or TSC should have CMPK and Propylene Glycol.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

we put their pile of hay in a big tractor tire to try to keep it somewhat off of the ground. they always pull it out of any other feeders we have tried. 
it looks like i may have to try to come up with a better solution in the future though. 

i dont have a private stall or pen that would be anywhere near the other goats that i could put her in. i wouldnt be able to pick her up to move her anyway. 

the only grain they have been getting is the 12% goat feed. i brought some alfalfa hay over to her just now and she didnt want anything to do with it. i also brought her a couple handfuls of the grain and she did gobble that down no problem. 

i mixed about 3 tablespoons of Karo syrup with some warm water (to make it flow better) and gave it to her with the syringe. 

my husband is going to head to the store as soon as i tell him what to get. there is a feed store near him as well as a tractor supply co. 
i will tell him to look for Red Cell, Propylene Glycol, alfalfa pellets and molasses. is there anything else i should tell him to look for?

we do still have Ivomec cattle injectable on hand. should i dose her with it? if so, how much should i give her?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I'm basing my advise on your situation and your husband being able to go to a feed store. Your average feed store that is...

I find the FAMACHA chart highly subjective, with the best use being - _if the inner eyelid is "about" white, you have problems_, but that's just me.

Still, when a pregnant doe this close is showing signs of going down hill, it's best to get very aggressive. There are definitely areas of the country that parasites are resistant to ivermectin. See if you husband can buy "Quest" horse paste wormer. That will give you another option for parasites once your husband gets home.

Many feed stores carry Nutridrench. Have your husband buy some of that for goats, if they have it. The feed store may, or may not, have propylene glycol. It's cheaper per ounce than Nutridrench, but often it's only sold by the gallon. Usually you are better off going with the Nutridrench to start out with. Both provide energy to a low energy goat.

Have your husband look for these things. MFO, CMPK, Calcium Gluconate. IN ORDER, those would be my choices to try and provide supplemental oral calcium.

You need to figure out a way to let this doe eat to her full potential. This might mean isolating her from the herd. Sometimes it's helpful to team them up with a "low on the totem pole", young goat that they will have the instinct to compete with for more feed. You have to call that as you go. All that (I hope) good alfalfa she will eat. And try and get her to eat a good helping of your concentrate twice a day. She may, after getting treated with the above, gradually start eating better, hopefully.. For sure if she is willing to eat, she should be getting all she will take. Sometimes if you catch them early, you can turn them around with more/better feed. Your scenario of her maybe being low on the totem pole and being intimidated off feed is the perfect scenario to reverse this with more feed by giving her more personal care. Hopefully.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If she was wormed 3 weeks ago I doubt that's the problem, even eating off the ground. Toxemia sounds likely at this point.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

my husband just called. he had to go to both the feed store as well as tractor supply to try to find the stuff i asked him to get. 

he was able to get:
Red Cell, Propylene Glycol, Calcium Gluconate, alfalfa pellets, molasses, and Quest wormer paste.

he is heading my way and should be here in about an hour. 
when he gets here what should i give her and how much of each? i want to have a game plan so i dont waste time when he gets here with everything.


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## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

SalteyLove said:


> Okay temperature is good. However the anemia is not. It's possible she is battling both Toxemia and parasite load.
> 
> I would go ahead and give her several tablespoons of Karo syrup for right now until you get a better grasp on the situation.
> 
> ...


Not to hijack this post from the OP, but is Ivomec Plus not safe for pregnant does?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Treat for toxemia ASAP. Get her up, it is important, even if it for short spells.

Is she eating OK?

Are her eye's dancing at all, check just in case.

Her temp is good.

Anemia can also make her weak, get a fecal for worms and cocci ASAP, we need to treat what is causing the issue. 
Give red cell orally 6 cc per 100 lbs.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I dosed my Nigerian with CMPK at 30 ml, 2x daily- a Nubian would probably get a bit more. I wrote down what an old timer told a group of us- she said 50 ml for a small ewe, and a large ewe or dairy goat at 100 ml. Perhaps a Nubian breeder could give us an exact dose. The old timer doses propylene glycol at 60 ml every 8 hrs. for a dairy doe, and 40 mls for a smaller ewe or breed (she raises sheep and goats). If you notice her eyes twitching around like Toth Both Goats said, the old timer told me that the animal is low in magnesium- so give Milk of Magnesia (do not have a dose on that.) On the Quest gel, I'm not sure it is safe for pregnant does, but dosing is 1cc/110 lbs. (1 "notch" on the wormer= 50 lbs.) Quest (moxidectin) is an excellent wormer, but we need to hear from someone who knows if it is safe for pregnancy.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

How is your doe?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> not to hijack this post from the OP, but is Ivomec Plus not safe for pregnant does?


IMO, Yes it is...Ive used it for years with no issues..even in a goat who was less then a month bred...the difference between the ivomec and ivomec plus is Clorsulon, which has been deemed safe for pregnant animals..



> Clorsulon is considered to be safe to use in pregnant or breeding animals.


http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/clorsulo.htm


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## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

happybleats said:


> IMO, Yes it is...Ive used it for years with no issues..even in a goat who was less then a month bred...the difference between the ivomec and ivomec plus is Clorsulon, which has been deemed safe for pregnant animals..
> 
> http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/clorsulo.htm


Awesome, thanks so much


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

She got 8cc of red cell, 8oz of calcium gluconate, and 60cc propylene glycol earlier when my husband got home. 

How often should she be getting each of these and do the dosages sound about right for a large Nubian goat?

There is no change in her as of yet. She still can't get up. She ate some grain and about a handful of alfalfa pellets but she has no interest in hay. 
When should I start to see improvement if there is going to be any. And is there anything I can or should do to try to get more food in her?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Is she drinking? You may want to drench her with some slightly flavored water to keep her hydrated. Electrolytes, if you have that. 

The few times I've used the propylene glycol it takes a little while before you see the improvement in appetite. Like an hour or two after they perk up a little. I do the propylene glycol two to three times a day. Hopefully you will see an improvement in the morning.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

For private stalls, you can build a quick stall in a corner using cattle panel, fence staples, and clips. Cut the panel in half, cut off the long pieces that result from the cut, use staples to attach the panels to the wall, and use clips to close it. It's a little wobbly and rough, but it will give her a private place to eat, 8'x8', big enough to have a friend with her. If the other goats beat up on her, being down will make her a target.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I had a pregnant doe miscarry after Ivomec Plus last year. I can't say for sure that was the cause but I won't risk it again - plain Ivomec is very safe.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

From Fiasco Farm: *Calcium Gluconate dosage- 8 oz. given orally. Repeat 5-8 oz, three times a day until the doe is eating and symptoms are subsiding. 
OR*
SQ Injections of 40-60 cc of Calcium Gluconate. The injections should be broken down into at least 4 injections in different sites. Do not give more than 10 cc per injection site. The injections should be given slowly.

Two Helpful Recipes
Magic & Revive Recipes

by Connie Ross of CR Ranch in Blanco, Texas

www.crranch.org

These two recipes have saved untold goat lives and no one should go into kidding season without these recipes handy and the ingredients on hand. Ketosis and hypocalcemia are serious concerns especially with does carrying multiple fetuses and/or large kids. Propylene Glycol while fine for treating ketosis in cattle just does not have the same positive effects with goats and Connie Ross's Revive and Magic are more suited for a goats system and have been responsible for the saving of many goats lives whether they have been used for the treatment of hypocalcemia, stress and/or many other illnesses when a goat is going downhill fast and needs immediate attention.

Magic
1 pint of molasses 
1 pint of Karo Syrup 
1 cup corn oil

Mix and keep in the house as it will not pour if cold.

*Give 6-10 ounces as the last drench at bedtime in pregnancy toxemia to keep energy up and hold the doe for the night. Use 8-10 oz for a large doe. 
*
Magic is also good for sick animals who have gone off their feed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revive 
1 500 ml bottle 50% Dextrose 
1 500 ml bottle of Amino Acid Solution (50cc if it is the concentrate) 
200 cc Calcium Gluconate (for pregnancy toxemia)
20 cc B Complex 
5 cc B12 (3000 mcg) 
5 cc Thiamine (500 mg/ml) 
1 gram Ascorbic Acid

Mix in a half gallon canning jar and keep in a cool dark place.

Give 100 cc's of Revive mixed with an equal amount of water several times a day until the doe is eating again.

Revive can be used for any sick goat if the Calcium Gluconate is left out. 
Connie does not use CMPK until after the doe has kidded and states that the Calcium Gluconate works better before kidding.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

i just wanted to give an update. 

she was pretty much the same this morning except that she was a little more alert. she would nibble at the alfalfa pellets and ate a few handfuls of the grain but wouldn't touch the hay and was not overly interested in the water. i gave her another dose of everything then topped her off with a couple extra 60 mil syringes of plain water. i left a large bowl of water, a flake of alfalfa hay and a pile of alfalfa pellets near her head where she could easily reach them. (the other goats can reach it too but they were leaving her alone and were content with their normal pile of hay and the alfalfa pellets that i gave them.)

when i got home from work this afternoon she had squiggled a couple feet away from where i left her before work so she was no longer within reach of her food etc. i offered her another bowl of water and she slurped up some of it on her own. i then gave her a new flake of alfalfa hay and she started eating it. this is the first time i have seen her touch hay since she went down. i know she is not even close to being out of the woods but there is definitely some improvement. she still cant get up though. her legs are too weak to support her weight. i had my husband help me earlier to get her up for about 15 minutes. he used a towel under her belly and was able to help me pull her to her feet (she is probably 130+ pounds of goat so i was impressed that he could do that). once up she cant really stand unassisted at all but she was taking a little of the weight off of the towel and trying. 
is there anything more i should be doing from here to try to help her besides giving her her "medicine" as needed and making sure she has free access to food and water?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Thats great getting her up... you can make a sling to get her up for a bit every few hours...Sounds like you are making some progress...


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

You are making progress.  I'd offer her as much fresh food as you can find this time of year: English ivy, evergreen branches like spruce, pine, fir- young fruit tree or Mulberry branches. When I offered my ketotic doe these foods, it was the turning point. She voraciously started eating them (tender young apple tree leaves in April.)


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

i got creative with stuff i had laying around and made a makeshift sling for her. i braided bailing twine together to make a strong rope. i used a piece of frost cloth that we have for our plants and used that to support her. i tied the ends of the frost cloth around the bailing twine rope (which i made into loops) then i used a lead rope from the horses to clip to the bailing twing and used a palo verde tree in the goat pen to suspend her from. it took both me and my husband to hoist her up and tie off the rope. the tree worked really well. it was strong enough to hold her up but the branch was springy and helped to encourage her to try to support her own weight. 

i was able to have her up for about an hour using the sling. for a while she was able to support most of her weight and was really only using the sling for balance. 

i noticed a new symptom though. her neck is swollen right at her throat area. it wasn't like that yesterday. any idea what could cause that and if there is something i should do to treat it?

here are a few pictures of Mocha from tonight. they arent great quality because a cell phone in the dark can only do so much:

the 1st is a cute pic of her once we got her up and settled. (the piece of bailing twine tied to her halter is to help discourage her from trying to walk forward. she kept trying to but couldnt and would start to fall out of the sling.)

the 2nd pic is after she had been up a little while and was starting to support some of her own weight. (you can see how the frost cloth is loose around her instead of tight like in the 1st pic)

the 3rd pic is a close up of how we attached all the parts of the sling together and tied it to the tree.

and the last 2 pics show what i was talking about when i said her neck is swollen so you can see it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good job!!!! an hour or so on the sling then let her rest...Nice work!!

On her neck..it looks lower on her neck then right under her jaw..am I correct? If it is under the jaw, could be bottle jaw, but if its lower could be a goiter...You can paint her tail web (the under side with no hair) with 7% iodine and see if it absorbs well..if so she may just need some iodized salt or Kelp...


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Wonderful job with the sling! How long do you keep her halter on? (Just wondering out loud what the swelling is... goiters in horses tend to be ball shaped. Don't know offhand if this is true with goats, but happy bleat's reccomendation on painting her tail is a good idea. Check your loose minerals and see if there is iodine in them. You'd be surprised at how many brands do not have it in theirs. Crazy... they need iodine.)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good job.


All great advice.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How has Mocha been these past few days?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things?


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

she seems to be doing okay but she still cant get up on her own and i am worried that there is a chance she may never be able to. 
the swelling in her throat is going down. i only put the halter on her when i am trying to move her around. i was using her collar the 1st day and im wondering if that's part of why her neck was swollen. i think the pulling to try to get her up etc could have been the cause. 
she is definitely stronger than she was. she can now get around a little bit by "walking" on her front knees and trying to scoot herself with her hind legs. her hind end just cant support her weight to get up. she has a lot of extra weight back there right now between the babies and her full udder. that mixed with the weak legs just wont allow get to get up on her own 

im really hoping to see an improvement in her after the babies are out but im trying not to get my hopes up too much. if i put my hand on her right side i can feel the babies kicking so they are still alive in there right now. according to the goat gestation calculator i looked up the 1st day she could be due is today. 

i am trying to get her up using the sling every evening for at least an hour after work and more if i get home early enough. she can now help me with the sling so i no longer need my husband to get her up. if i encourage her i can get her to squiggle her way over to the tree. she can sit up a little using her front knees so i can get the sling under her chest. then i put the rope over the tree branch and wrap it so it keeps tension and her front end cant drop all the way. then i put my hands under her belly right in front of her udder and as i lift she tries to stand and ends up in a "stink bug" position. then if i support her hind end she will stand her front end up the rest of the way and i can secure the sling and slide it the rest of the way under her belly. i have been keeping it loose enough that she is supporting her own weight when she is standing and she can walk a couple steps forward or backward and turn in a small circle but it will catch her if she looses her balance or if the tries to squat to pee. when i took it off of her last night she walked about 8 steps (very wobbly but she did it) then she tried to pee but she cant support her weight while squatting so she ended up down again. 

she is eating her hay and drinking water. i am trying to keep a flake of alfalfa, a bucket of alfalfa pellets, and a bowl of water in front of her all the time (sometimes she squiggles away from it so i have to put it back in front of her when i get home from work)

i attached a couple pics of her from yesterday afternoon. my 2 preemie bottle baby kids were keeping her company while she was laying down. one was using her as a bed. they were born the day she went down so they are 5 days old in the picture and still tiny (it took them 2-3 days before they had the strength to even stand on their own). Mocha perked up when she saw them and called for them when i put them away later as it got colder. when the mom had the 1st baby she dropped it right next to where Mocha was laying down and Mocha was the one to clean it off so she is a little attached to them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You are doing great!! and that pic with the babies..precious!! She is going to be a wonderful mom...How close to due date is she??


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

thanks! i really hope she pulls through. she is such a sweet goat, makes lots of milk, and was a wonderful momma to her babies last year. 

today is day 150 from the day that we brought the buck home. so she is due any time starting now. hopefully she took right away and not a week or 2 after we brought him home. out of the other goats exposed to the buck at the same time, one had her babies the day Mocha went down (the preemie kids she was hanging out with), one had 2 babies this morning, and the 3rd was showing signs of possibly being in labor or close to labor when i left for work this morning (she was separating herself from the others, her udder is visibly bigger than yesterday, and her ligaments were gone). so hopefully Mocha isnt far behind them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Fingers crossed it all works out!!


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I'm concerned that your goat is going into labor-time too weak to stand on her own. Can you get cmpk? Magnesium has important roles in muscle function along with calcium. Calcium is good, but calcium with a full supporting cast is better. 

Did her goiter decrease with iodine?

Are you giving her nutridrench/propylene glycol still? 

You're taking good care of her, but it worries me a little that she's still not out of the woods. Pushing babies out is hard work.

And the pictures of her borrowed babies are precious! Pretty girl you've got there!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice harley barley, it won't hurt to do that.



You are doing a great job with her, keep it up and try as harley barley suggested.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

i cant find CMPK anywhere near me. i could order it but i dont know how long shipping would take. may not hurt to have some on hand for the future anyway.

she finished off the calcium gluconate bottles we had the day before yesterday. the feed store in town doesnt have any more so that was it. 

i didnt give her any propylene glycol this morning. she really hates the stuff and would turn her head away as soon as she saw me coming with the syringe. should i continue to give it even if she is eating fine now? if so then i will give her a dose when i get home this afternoon.

the swelling in her neck is going down. im not sure if its getting better from iodine or just from time. im still wondering if it was at least partially caused from pulling on her collar so much to try to help get her up that first day.


i found a few different kinds of CMPK online. which one should i get to have on hand? 
one is a bolus "Bomac Vets Plus CMPK Bolus"
one is a drench in a gallon container "Bomac Vets Plus CMPK with D3 Drench - 1 GAL"
and one is a bottle similar to the calcium gluconate "Aspen CMPK Solution - 500 mL"

im trying to keep a really close eye on her and regularly check her ligaments and for other signs that labor is near. i really want to be there when she goes into labor because, in her weakened state, i am worried that she may need help. hopefully she can manage but if not i need to be there to help pull kids.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I have the CMPK in a tube that looks like a tube of Calking. I always give it to my pregnant girls if they seem off or sluggish. It does burn their mouth so be ready for her to spit a lot of it out.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I agree; it's really important to get all those minerals in a CMPK dose into her. Here is a recipe for a homemade version I posted on a similar thread. It's by a lady named Sue Reith, I believe. If you have a coffee grinder handy, it grinds up all the tablets most nicely.

If neither of those products are handy, you can re-create a 30 cc CMPK dose (650 mg calcium; 500mg potassium; 150 mg phosphorus; and 96 mg magnesium) in your kitchen by going to the Supplements department of any large chain-type drugstore and buying bottles of Posture D tablets (600 mg calcium, 266 mg phosphorus, 125 units Vitamin D), Citracal tablets (315mg calcium and 200 IU of Vitamin D), Potassium tablets (500 mg), and Magnesium tablets (150 mg). Crush up the amount of each pill needed to recreate one 30cc dose of CMPK above. (To assist the reader, helpful owners have calculated the following: "½ of a 600mg tablet of Posture-D, a 315mg tablet of CitraCal, a 500mg tablet of Potassium, and ½ of a 150mg tablet of Magnesium). Serve it in a little yogurt, or add water and drench it with a syringe.

Give 30 cc, 2 times daily.

Link for MFO (CMPK) from Jeffer's:http://www.jefferspet.com/products/mfo-solution-cmpk-500ml
__________________


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

In-clover....thanks so much for your recipes. I will keep them handy and have stuff on hand just in case i need it. Hopefully i wont. I have 3 does ready to kid in march sometimes. This is all such great info
Rmation!


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

Thats information, i was typing way to fast. 


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Most farm stores can order it. CMPK is a cow product; I wouldn't use boluses because they're sized for cows. I use the caulk tube stuff, but I got MFO Solution this year (oral cmpk + dextrose a.k.a. Oral Cal MPK).  I prefer not to give injections if I can avoid it, and CMPK is IV and (I think) rx. Always adjust the dose down to goat size (figure a cow is min. 1000 lbs). Ivy's recipe looks good. The sooner you give it, the sooner you'll know if it helps.

Food should give her the energy she needs, but she's missing SOMETHING (or a baby is pinching a nerve?) if she isn't standing on her own. I'd give Prop Glyc if she backslides at all.

Since she's down, is she still eating her minerals? Is she drinking well? Can you give her probiotics? Prop Glyc is a little harsh on the rumen; I like to give probiotics with it to keep the rumen in good shape.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

scubacoz said:


> In-clover....thanks so much for your recipes. I will keep them handy and have stuff on hand just in case i need it. Hopefully i wont. I have 3 does ready to kid in march sometimes. This is all such great info
> Rmation!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
> ...


You are most welcome~ just trying to help. You never know what situation you'll find yourself in without the necessary supplies. Most of us have access to some kind of human supplement store, be it a local drugstore or a Walmart. So recipes like this are really valuable when you find yourself without the stuff you need.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

i ordered CMPK online and selected 1 day shipping. knock on wood it should get here tomorrow sometime. it wasnt cheap to expedite the shipping but if it has a chance to help Mocha its worth it. i called the feed store and they said they could order it but it would take 1-2 weeks to arrive. in the future if i just want to have something on hand, as a precaution, now i know that if i call ahead they can get it for me.

Mocha seems to be doing a little better every day but it is a slow process. on Tuesday i could walk her around the goat pen a little as long as i had the sling under her and held onto it to help support her weight in her hind end (my arms are still pretty sore from helping her. she weighs a lot more than i do) i figured if i could get her to walk around a little it would be good for her circulation in her legs and her muscles in general. 
yesterday she was a bit stronger again so i took her out of the goat pen for a walk around the property (there's no deep bedding outside of the pen to get hung up on and no other goats to trip over). once i got her up she could support herself unless she tripped or tried to pee so i just tied the sling around her. that way i had it to pull on to help her up the couple times she would loose her footing and go down. i used a piece of bailing twine tied to her halter to encourage her along since the lead rope was still tied to the tree. the whole thing looked ridiculous but it seemed to work and that's what counts. she seemed to get a bit more stable on her feet towards the end of our walk. i took her back to the pen and suspended her from the tree to rest for a while when she looked like she was getting tired.

im going to try to attach a quick video i took of her during our walk yesterday. let me know if it works or not. i have no idea what im doing when it comes to videos lol. hopefully it will work. sorry about the quality. i was using my cell phone and was walking backwards to try to record her.

View My Video


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Aww, she's adorable and doin' great! She's bright and alert, too. You are doing such a wonderful job with her. Be proud of yourself and give yourself a big pat on the back!

This may be a dumb question, but has she had a BoSe shot within the last 6 weeks? I'm wondering if the weakness in her legs has anything to do with a selenium deficiency. Just thinking out loud.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

awwww thanks. Im really trying hard to get her better.

i have never given any of my goats anything for selenium. i was afraid to because of what i have heard about the problems if there is too much selenium.

i live in southern arizona. i have no idea if my area is selenium deficient or if there is an over abundance or somewhere in between.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I really think you should give her a BoSe shot (it's an Rx). Can you get a bottle from your Vet, or a friend? Dose is 1cc/40 lbs. There is also a gel you can buy, but I haven't had good results from that. Your Vet should also be able to tell you if your region is selenium deficient. Or, do what I do- Google "(your county) AZ soil mineral maps. See what you come up with. With a little digging around, you'll find some. Do you offer loose minerals, and do they eat them?


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

She looks darn good for a goat who can't lift her own weight. Her legs look a little "rubbery" to me, but hard to tell? SO good that you've got her walking. Movement does good stuff for the body. I can't tell if she's walking hunched. I do see her bagging up!

CMPK is used as a routine preventive on some cow dairies so it is likely very safe even if not medically "indicated."

Selenium? Good thought. Your local ag Extension agent should know if your area is deficient, but also look at where your hay/feed is grown. If you determine that she may be deficient, if you can't get BoSe, you can give her selenized yeast (call health food stores) plus vitamin e capsules (you can try vitamin e now if you want). You'll want to give to the kids too if she's deficient. Another source of info would be local goat breeders - if they give BoSe, your area (and feed producers) is probably deficient.

Most sources describe Se deficiency in kids. I have an adult who shows stiff rear legs when due for a BoSe booster. Individual goats can be more or less susceptible due to genetics, preference for minerals, or access to feed.

"When the skeletal muscles are affected, symptoms vary from mild stiffness to obvious pain upon walking, to an inability to stand. Lambs/kids may tremble in pain when held in a standing position. A stiff gait and hunched appearance are common."
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/WMD.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Amazing!!! You are doing a fabulous job!!! she is walking with a bit of a jog!! that is awesome!!...and very good for her circulation and rumen function!!! I agree selenium may help...as mentioned, call ag Extension agent or good your area mineral map...

Keep up the good work!!!!


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

Great job on the sling!

The most important thing on a doe with ketosis is to manage to keep her alive till she kids and make sure she is upright at times.

If you can keep them alive till kidding and they havent' been down too long to get up you are usually home free.

I wish I could remember the name.....I used to get this stuff it was dextrose, calcium glycol and vitamin B. Really worked well.

If the doe had some time till kidding a supplement called DYNE really helped.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

You're both doing so well! The sling is a very creative idea.  Once she kids, she should improve. I wish the best for you!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If you can get the Sel/E gel, there's much lower risk of overdose with that. I switched to Bo-Se this year because tests came back borderline low on selenium, but have used the gel before and never had any symptoms of deficiency.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

another quick update on Mocha. she still seems to be doing okay and is continuing to improve slightly every day. 

the CMPK i ordered should be here today. i will give her some tonight when my husband gets home from work. i had it shipped to him at his work. the post office and most other carriers don't deliver to our house because of the long (and right now in awful shape) dirt road. they drop it at the post office and we have to go pick it up. i figured by shipping it to my husband at work we will actually get it today since it is really hard to get by the post office during business hours. 

i took her for another short walk last night. the walks really seem to help with her attitude. she is a much happier goat after the walks. i think she feels better after she gets moving. every time i help her up after she has been down for a while she does a big stretch and seems happy to be up.

i got her up real quick this morning before i had to leave for work. i have no idea how long she will stay up on her own but i figure every little bit helps. her hind legs are still a bit weak and jelly like. she still goes down and cant get up on her own if she tries to squat to pee, if she trips, or if another goat bumps into her. we have a routine now where i help her lift her hind end and she does the rest so at least its pretty easy to get her up when im home. 

her udder is really starting to fill up. hopefully that means she is getting close to kidding. i noticed that she was really sunken in on her sides this morning too. i think the babies are starting to drop. her ligaments were still there this morning but i will check again as soon as i get home. i felt her belly on the right side and could feel the babies kicking away. 

she has lost a lot of condition since she has been sick but i dont think she looks half bad considering what she has been through. hopefully i can get her healthy again and get her muscles back in shape and get a little weight back on her

here are some pictures of her.
first is her udder from this morning then a picture of it from saturday night for comparison when i had her up using the sling (its not a great picture though)
i also attached a couple pics of how sunken her sides have gotten.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Bekahbear said:


> i took her for another short walk last night. the walks really seem to help with her attitude. she is a much happier goat after the walks. i think she feels better after she gets moving. every time i help her up after she has been down for a while she does a big stretch and seems happy to be up.


Babies!! 

Happy is really good. They can be so stoic, but a happy goat has more fighting spirit to get through difficulties. And walking will keep her leg muscles strong and help her feel "normal" and just lots of good stuff. She's lucky to have you!


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

Good job with her. Her udder definitely seems to be filling.


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

another update on Mocha.
when i went to feed this morning she got up on her own. YAY!! :wahoo:

she has been making slow but steady progress. yesterday i was able to get her up with very little help from me. all i would have to do is help steady/balance her hind end for her so she could stand and today she could do it on her own.

it still took some serious effort on her part to get up on her own but i am ecstatic that she can do it at all considering where she was just a short while ago. 

now i just have to wait for babies and hope for the best. the other goats have already had their kids so Mocha is the last one i am waiting on. they were all exposed to the buck at the same time but i have no idea when they each were actually bred. im thinking she has to be getting close. her udder is getting really big. i am checking her ligaments several times a day and just waiting for them to disappear. hopefully she will kid without any more complications but i want to be there when it happens so i can pull kids if need be. 

i will try to get an updated picture of her when i get home from work today


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

When are her babies due?


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

she was due any time starting February 10th. that was 150 days after the buck 1st came to the property. she could have been bred that 1st day or it could have been weeks later. 

the other 3 does that were exposed to the buck during the same time period as Mocha have already all given birth. one doe gave birth about 8 days early to twin girls (both are bottle babies because it took them days before they were strong enough to stand but they are doing great now). one doe gave birth at exactly day 150 to twins (one buck and one doe). and the other doe gave birth the day before yesterday to triplet girls.

since the others were so close together and have already had their kids im guessing Mocha cant be too far behind.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Awesome :hug::stars:


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Bekahbear said:


> another update on Mocha.
> when i went to feed this morning she got up on her own. YAY!! :wahoo:


I am soooo happy for you and for Mocha!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Woohoo!!!!!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Wonderful News!!!! Amazing!!..


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

Great!


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

Good work, it can be exhausting to get them well but you have done a wonderful job.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

This is just fabulous news. You did a fantastic job with her. Thank you for keeping all of us updated.


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

Great news! Keep us posted


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum
S&K Hilltop Farm and Ranch
Registered mini-Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

WE HAVE BABIES!!! :wahoo: :stars: :wahoo: 

She gave birth to beautiful triplets this morning. 2 girls and one boy. she did it all on her own. i was just a spectator for the birth. she was able to get up and down as needed and push the babies out with no help from me. i am so proud of her!!

i got some quick pictures with my phone of the happy family before i had to leave for work.

i gave her a dose of CMPK before i left to give her a boost and i drug some hay over to where her and her babies were so she wouldnt have to leave them to eat. she was gobbling down the hay when i left.

Thank you guys soooooo much!!!! i dont think Mocha or her babies would have stood a chance without your help. i cant thank you enough!!

hopefully she will continue to do as well as she has been the last couple days. she seemed to be getting up and down much easier today when i was watching the birth. i take that as a very good sign for her future.


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

absolutely gorgeous babies - when you have more time let us know which are girls and which is the boy.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Well done to Mocha and YOU! What a beautiful family. Nubian babies are just so downright cute with those long ears. Just love them with their wee little faces. Look at the spots on that one...  I think it's a good idea to keep up with the CMPK until you see all symptoms gone, then a few days afterwards for support. I did that with my ketotic doe, and things turned out alright. It will especially be helpful when she can get out on her on with her family, but watch out for any bullies who might take advantage of her weakened state.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow...precious!!! what a beautiful ending to a very hard pregnancy!! Kudos for all you did for Mocha!!! she could not have done it with out you!!


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## Bekahbear (Jan 15, 2014)

i got some slightly better pics of the babies. its hard to get a good picture when they are resting in the little goat house instead of out in the sunlight

Mocha seems to be doing well. she can now squat to pee without falling down (its not an easy task but she can do it now). im sure having some of that extra weight off of her hind end is a big help. i am hoping *crosses fingers* that she will make a full recovery with a little more time.

thanks again to everyone that helped this to be a happy ending instead of a tragedy. :hug:

here are the little ones we have all been waiting for.

first up is the spotty girl. we are keeping her

















next is the solid girl. i love the contrast on her (the pics of her have a yellow tinge to them thanks to the light and don't do her color justice) 

















and last but not least is the cute little buckling.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

they are all beautiful...congrats


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Too cute!


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Love all of them! I bet she is doing a lot better after having a load off


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## SerenitySquare (Jun 28, 2014)

that is wonderul and those are some pretty baby.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

That is awesome! Congrats!


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

First, Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got the update in my e-mail and I did a happy dance when I read "WE HAVE BABIES!!! :wahoo: :stars: :wahoo:"

Second, GOOD FORUM ETIQUETTE! BABY PICTURES!! LOL. (My best mobster voice) "You get help, we get baby pictures. That's how this works."

Darling kids! You and Mocha did some good work there. Oh, I'm soo happy for you both!! She's squatting on her own. And she delivered on her own! That's so huge! Good job!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They are adorable. congrats.


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