# Boer vs. nubian kidding- where's the drama?



## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

I have a boer goat that has strings of mucus hanging down, she has has this for about 2 hours now. I caught her when I was choring and moved her into the kidding shed. She is not screaming, not panting not building a nest not nervous and happily eating hay. My nubians make a huge dramatic production of kidding complete with screaming, panting and generally being complete divas about it. This is my first "meat goat" to kid here, I bought 18 of them in a group that had been with a buck for a "while" so I have no idea when she is actually due. She has a small bag, but nothing compared to some of the other does I have been waiting on for 2 weeks already. Is there really that much difference in the kidding patterns of the two breeds? This doe is solid mouth and I was told when I got them they all kidded before without issue.


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## sweetlifegoats (Jan 24, 2014)

I've only done about 20 boer births on our farm but several of them drop mucus for two weeks to month before they kid. The only sign I pay attention to is ligaments gone or bag looking likes it's going to burst then I know it's time. They can be pretty dramatic too but some are very quiet and eat until minutes before they kid.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Interesting question....neither of my nubians were loud last year.I think they only grunted when actually getting the head/shoulders out...except the alpine I had...and she wasn't awful.
Now this year I have a FF nubian doeling who is loud a LOT....and she is gonna beat the band I'm betting :lol:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have mostly boers and a few Nubians and a few Nubians in the last (maybe a total of 10) and I don't think they were more vocal. Now their first time kidding OMG can they all be annoying and loud but I actually had a Nubian kid for her first time this year with triplets and she only grunted just a little on all three, I think she was the most quiet first timer ever here lol


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

ok so it is about 7 hours after we first saw her with a stream from her vulva all the way to the ground. While we were moving her the stream fell out and I have since seen two more pass while she is in the kidding pen. We still have NOTHING. She does not act like she is in labor, she is quite happy and eating. I had thought all along that what was coming out the back end looked more like afterbirth than the goo that comes before kidding- it was kinda light brownish with a little red tint- but not fresh blood, and not really too brown either. Certainly not the clear or amber color that I have seen with the others. This also appeared to be more of a tissue than just mucus. I looked all over the lot for kids or an abortion and did not find anything. She is only in with other goats and 4 cows so I do not think something could have eaten the kid (or the fetus if that is the case). We have 3 LGD's on duty, and do not have an issue with predators- however none were in with these goats at the time so I know it would not have been one of them cleaning up. She has a small bag, and she looks like she is still bred- round in the belly... I did not check for milk. Thoughts as to what could be going on?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would stick my hand in and see if you have an open cervix. A malpositioned kid would stop any contractions. Also could be that she isn't quite ready yet. If you go in and see what the cervix is doing, you at least get an idea.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

She could be waiting, or her kids are positioned wrong. Are her ligs gone? Overall behavior? Seen any kid activity?
If the ligs are gone, go in and see what's going on. Breech kids will stop contractions.

As far as the drama, that is doe dependant. Most of mine don't bat an eye, others get a little dramatic, and every now and then I get a screamer. I think some does are just less pain tolerant like people. 
When I had my kids it wasn't horrid, and I didn't have anything for pain because I thought it'd mess my kids up :lol: And when my daughter had her twins (who were much smaller than all of mine), she was screaming her head off for hours, then told the doctors she quits, she's can't do it, and she had pain killers :laugh:
I also just had 3 teeth pulled yesterday, haven't taken so much as an aspirin or tylenol, been fine all day, hardly any pain.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Try bouncing, see if you can feel bodies in there - and if they're moving around. I had a doe with stillborn last season who had brown gunk like you're describing :blue:


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't think I can get my hand in there- she is not loose or puffy in the vulva.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

ok back out there again. I tried to bounce her and her belly was really tight. She is not a tame doe by any means so I do not know if it was tight from contractions or if it was due to nerves because some weird woman in cookie monster pajamas all of a sudden wanted a late night goat hug. Anyhow I THINK I felt a bounce but having never done that before I am not completely sure... And I also got two fingers in when she decided that we did not know each other well enough for those things.... I don't have anyone that can help me out with holding her tonight so I can check properly. Husband is sick and has to be at work at 4 am, not thinking he wants me to wake him up for this. I guess all that is left now is to pray for her to have them on her own until I can get some help tomorrow holding her down. She acts like nothing is wrong, eating, running away from me, not crying out or breathing hard.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If you can get her tied up you can probably do more feeling around from the outside of her belly. If you can feel them kicking, everything's probably fine. If there's kids in there that aren't moving it could be a problem - or they could just be getting ready to be born, sometimes they stop moving in early labor.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

and I wanted drama !! HA


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

could moving her from the lot into the kidding pen have caused her to stop labor? I wonder about the color and consistency of the stuff coming out- but she still does look like she has baby in her. I will take some pictures...


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Not likely. I picked up a doe at the auction once and she kidded two hours later!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't really want to freak you out BUT I would be concerned. The only time I personally have seen what you are describing it didn't end so well (deformed kid and a torn uterus) I understand being by yourself, tie her up as tight as you can, I believe you said she's in a stall, push her up against it and use your body to hold her there (your on her side facing the opposite of how she is) and reach your hand around. It sucks doing it with no help but you can do it 


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

ok got the kid out this morning- dead as I figured it would be. large deformed buck kid. It's nose was really short and the bottom jaw jutted out. Looked almost like a bulldog. Gave her 2 cc oxytocin, 2 cc pen g, a uterine bolus, and a dose of tetanus antitoxin per the vet. Now what? I will not be breeding her again and will probably sell her for butcher in a month or so.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh wow. Was she wormed while pregnant? Odd about the deformity, glad you got him out though. Did you go back in after you pulled him to make sure there wasn't a 2nd? 
She pass the afterbirth? 
Unless she's a 40lb doe she needs more than 2cc, penicillin is 1cc per 20lbs. Good on the uterine bolus, that should keep infection away. I'd give some b-complex as well, but other than that, you've just about covered it.

If she's in any pain, you can give some banamine as well. 1cc per 100lbs.


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## mlktrkdrvr (Dec 7, 2012)

The vet told me 1 cc per 100# on the pen g- but I thought that seemed low so I went with 2- I will give her 2 more, she is about 80 pounds. He is NOT a goat vet... I just got these goats a few months ago so I am not sure about the deworming- would that cause deformities? Should I post a picture of the kid? it is kinda graphic


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yeah, the 1cc per 100lbs is the bottle doseage for cows  And a wormer like Valbazen, Ivomec+, or any strong wormer in the early stages of pregnancy can cause deformities, as can a moldy feed, or perhaps just a bad genetic cross. 
I'd post a pic of the kid, for an educational purpose. And somebody might have experienced it before and have an idea.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I wouldn't sell/butcher her over one bad go, like Little Bits said it could be all sorts of things that will never happen again. My doe had several seasons of perfect twinning, this one was breech and she never went into labor until it was long expired.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with this deformed kid. I too would like to see a picture of the kid if you have one. I think it would be very educational and someone may know what caused it. 

Per your original question, my nubian doe was very loud when she kidded but she's always loud lol. Both of my Nigerian dwarfs were silent except for a few grunts. I think it depends on the doe more than breed.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Awww I'm so sorry  but great you got him out!!! I agree I wouldn't hold this against her, you don't know if it was the bucks fault or as said the wormer. The doe I mentioned above she was wormed with Valbazen, didn't know she was bred since I ran the bucks and does together and her kid came out like one of those polish chickens with the knob on top of his head but totally firm. But anyways, if you like the doe I would give her a second chance.


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