# Please critique my new ND doe



## clementegal (May 23, 2013)

Here is my new nigerian doe she is definitely not as fat as when I last saw her. Also does anyone know how much I should be feeding her? Thanks in advance!


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm still new to ND conformation, but I will say she does have a nice rump. It's not too steep like some can be. 

And I've been feeding mine half a small scoop since their not lactating. But, I think feeding proportions depend on whether you have grass or feed hay and on the goat itself.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Nice girl! Is that a moon spot I see on her side?

Here's what I am seeing-

She has really great length and body capacity; I like how wide she is; her front legs are straight and back ones have good angulation. Her brisket is very nice, udder looks to be even with good sized teats. 

I have to disagree on the rump- I definitely think it is steep. She breaks in her chine, so her topline looks swayed. She could blend better and her hip/loin area and at her shoulders. I think she should be much higher and wider in the escutcheon. And I would like to see a little more femininity and dairy character, but that's being awfully critical of a very nice doe.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I won't comment on conformation, as I am hardly qualified, but she is a cutie. Just darling.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

She's a fairly nice doe.

I would like to point out something, and I have seen this a lot in some people critiques, saying that their goats chines are weak, even when some had perfect chines. The spine naturally drops down a bit behind the withers, keep that in mind.

Look at the doe again. Her topline is straight, flat from the chine back, right? This doe does not have a weak chine, she has a taller front end, and prominent withers, giving the illusion to some people, that she has a weak chine.

Just clearing things up. I have a picture of a doe with a horrid topline, if anyone want to know what a truely bad topline is. 
And then I have my grand champion pics, so you can see that the withers are always higher than the chine.

The rump is still a tad steep, but it's close to ideal, she has nice body capacity, nice depth, nice rear leg set, straight front legs, overall not a bad doe.


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## clementegal (May 23, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> She's a fairly nice doe.
> 
> I would like to point out something, and I have seen this a lot in some people critiques, saying that their goats chines are weak, even when some had perfect chines. The spine naturally drops down a bit behind the withers, keep that in mind.
> 
> ...


Thank you for clearing that up I was actually wondering that myself! I thought the withers were supposed to be higher than the rump but I wasn't sure. Thank you all for your comments they are much appreciated!


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Hmm... I'm not quite sure what you are saying, Lacie. From what I am seeing (not saying it is right, by any means) this goat has a swayed top. Her withers and her hip are the same height, but her back hangs much lower. I see that from her withers to her chine it is downhill, and from her chine to her hip it is uphill, at least in most of the pictures.

It definitely is not the worst top I have seen, but carries the risk of progressively worsening as she ages and breeds.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Look at pic number 1, the top of her withers are taller than her hips, the chine is level with the hips. I'll see if I can take the pic into photoshop so you can see what I mean.


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## clementegal (May 23, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Look at pic number 1, the top of her withers are taller than her hips, the chine is level with the hips. I'll see if I can take the pic into photoshop so you can see what I mean.


Sure thanks!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

So, this doe inparticular, just has very high withers. If you draw a line from her withers straight out, the line does not reach her hips. Now in picture form, it doesnt look like the hips are that far off, but everything is bigger in real life.

Now, this is not a perfect line, but from the top of the withers straight out, thats the line. Where the circle is, thats the chine.

I'm going to grab that pic of the boer doe I was talking about earlier, just so you can know the difference between a horrible topline and chine, and what your doe has.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

I'm glad to be following this thread, very informative. I was thinking the same thing, Katelyn, but kind of vaguely- I'm still very much in the learning curve when it comes to conformation.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I do see what you are saying now. Thanks 

This was what I was referring to, it looks like a sway; her hips and withers are even (in this picture) and her back is not.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

This is a boer goat that I came across, possibly the worst topline I have seen. Again, I circled where the chine is, the withers are right in front, and the back roaches up, and the hips are a lot taller than the withers.
Boer with bad topline








Grand Champion Alpine doe. The withers are always taller


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ah, that is from the angle of the picture, conformation can be manipulated by a different angle, which is why its SUPER important to be at the perfect spot when you take the pic.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Uh, huh, WOW! That is the worst topline I have ever seen- not that I've seen that many, but even I can tell it's bad! I wonder if it gives her any health problems, lol.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

And WHY is your line so straight? I'm on my laptop, the pad isn't that easy to make a straight line, and my hands are shakey, but what editing app or software did you use?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Byccombe said:


> Uh, huh, WOW! That is the worst topline I have ever seen- not that I've seen that many, but even I can tell it's bad! I wonder if it gives her any health problems, lol.


A blind person could even tell that that is the worst topline in the history of all time! Lol, I do corrective trimming on her feet, the picture actually makes her topline look BETTER! Can you believe that?!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

That's terrible! Poor thing, were her parents that (as someone else so aptly put it) that conformationally challenged??


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> And WHY is your line so straight? I'm on my laptop, the pad isn't that easy to make a straight line, and my hands are shakey, but what editing app or software did you use?


Lol, Paint! If you have Windows, then paint is one of the features.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Byccombe said:


> That's terrible! Poor thing, were her parents that (as someone else so aptly put it) that conformationally challenged??


NO surprisingly! And this doe was actually a show kid until 6 months old, she beat over 50 kids in her classes!!! That blew my mind! Her kids come out straight as a board too. So maybe she was too heavily grained and that broke down her frame and joints (seen that happen to a lot of boers).


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

TrinityRanch said:


> Lol, Paint! If you have Windows, then paint is one of the features.


:doh:
Why yes, yes I do have windows, and paint.... never even thought to use that.... lol, thanks!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Okay.. that makes more sense that it would've deteriorated over time. I can't imagine any goat being born that crooked! It would be sad!


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