# Pet Jersey steer - advice?



## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Does anyone know of any Mini Jersey (cow) breeders in Georgia or Florida?

Thanks!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't know of any, I'm just interested in your plans! Please tell!!!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I don't know of any, I'm just interested in your plans! Please tell!!!


Just really like them and was looking for a pet (steer or free martin) that could help clear grass with the goats. Mini Jersey cause they're smaller. We had a few Holstein steers a while back and missed them.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

https://www.tanglewoodfarmminiatures.com/miniature-cows/ These folks have some good looking mini jerseys. Mini jerseys would make a wonderful pet but they are usually rather expensive for a pet. I bought 2 mini jersey cross calves to raise and breed for milking, I think mini jerseys are the perfect small acre cow that will produce lots of wonderful milk, butter, cheese etc, plus extra calves to fill the freezer.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Expensive is correct. Since Jerseys are small anyway, and the minis are not that much smaller, maybe a regular Jersey steer would be an option?

Or not. Completely up to you. I love cattle. All cattle... Well, MOST cattle. Not too fond of Ayrshires but that is personal. One of my favourites are Guernseys. Another is Dexters. And Black Baldies. And Shorthorns. And...


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Speaking of Jersey steers, we got a week old bull calf this summer and raised him on goat milk, we did this a few years ago with a couple bulls which of course we steered, but kept them a year and a half then off to the processor, my oh my what wonderful meat that was, looking forward to this guy going to the freezer in a year or two. So if you get a standard jersey, they do make great pets and great meat later when you don't want to buy hay for him as an adult. 
Myself, I do NOT love all cattle! ok there is one breed I really don't care for and that is Holstein. Raised a couple steers one time and they just tore our place up and not at all pet material.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So we are (hopefully) getting a Jersey steer! Yay!

He is 4.5 months old polled bull calf and they are going to band him for us. He has been dam raised in a pasture so far and is still nursing, but they said he could be weaned now. His sire was 48" and dam shorter than that, so he is sort of miniature. You guys were right about the price of the really small minis.

Anyone have any tips on halter training, etc? He will be fresh from his mother and has had no human handling.
We want him to be docile, trusting of us and halter broke. What is the best method? I have found conflicting advice online. Don't have much experience with cows so advice is appreciated. 

Also, is it true that bulls are bigger than steers?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

lovinglife said:


> https://www.tanglewoodfarmminiatures.com/miniature-cows/ These folks have some good looking mini jerseys. Mini jerseys would make a wonderful pet but they are usually rather expensive for a pet. I bought 2 mini jersey cross calves to raise and breed for milking, I think mini jerseys are the perfect small acre cow that will produce lots of wonderful milk, butter, cheese etc, plus extra calves to fill the freezer.


Look up dexters! They are awesome for milk and beef and are minis. We are hopin come spring to have fence up for a few. . They are supposed to be better than jerseys for the beef aspect and milk Mearly as much as a mini jersey. .


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

We had a jersey steer. Treats and lots of scratches help get them people friendly. But if you are used to horses, just know cattle are less fussy in a lot of ways. Ours was very sweet and friendly, but would clobber the goats with his big head. 
Just as you do when you're a bovine!
I had to separate him from the goats when he was big enough he was tossing them away from the feeder.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

My husband and I are very good at training oxen, and sometimes that meant gentling older (as in weaned and into adolescence) animals.

First thing we did was take them straight to the vet where all pertinent poking, prodding, tattooing, cutting, nose-ringing would be done while in the chute/headgate. While the animal was caught was when we'd be able to get a halter on him. That's step number one in my book, while the animal is already confined, get that halter on. The halter can have a short lead attached. 18 inches is good. Long enough to grab, short enough to not be dangerous.

When home, we used the isolation technique. No animal friends, and no humans either at first, just good hay, clean water, mineral salt block, and quiet. Next day, a human is the only source of company, the only source of food, the only source of water. Sooner, rather than later, the steer starts to indicate he likes us being there and we can then start with the back scratches, the tail scratches, leaning on him (yes, cattle lean on one another to communicate friendship) Soon we could take the short lead and move the head with it. That's all we want is small movement giving in to the pressure of the halter. We don't ever want him to know how much stronger he is than us, so we don't push it at all. And back to the scratchings.

If he pulled away, we immediately released the lead. He's in a confined space, where's he going to go? Quickly he learns pulling away gets him no where. Again, I don't let him learn how much stronger he is than I am.

Soon, we can start leading. and eventually, he stops even questioning if he should follow or not even when we first take him out of his confined space, he totally trusts us to be his friends. We keep the halter and short lead on him, however, for some few more weeks.

This is how we did untouched yearlings. Even when they were no longer isolated, they loved and trusted us. Cattle are so much easier and nicer in some ways than goats.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> My husband and I are very good at training oxen, and sometimes that meant gentling older (as in weaned and into adolescence) animals.
> 
> First thing we did was take them straight to the vet where all pertinent poking, prodding, tattooing, cutting, nose-ringing would be done while in the chute/headgate. While the animal was caught was when we'd be able to get a halter on him. That's step number one in my book, while the animal is already confined, get that halter on. The halter can have a short lead attached. 18 inches is good. Long enough to grab, short enough to not be dangerous.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the advice!

Is there a certain halter/lead you recommend?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Strong, with no loops to get caught on anything. For the same reason, I learned to prefer woven rather than plied.

If they band him, ask them to put a well fitting halter on at the same time. That way it isn't associated with you at all.

Now, depending on personality, this guy will probably be easier to make gentle than I have described. He'll already be missing mom and his friends, and he won't have the yearling hormones yet. Be safe, keep him safe, and be the leader that will protect him. That's what he'll be looking for.

I'm glad you are getting him from a farm. When they come from an auction, calves have been traumatized a lot of times from the freely used shock treatments. That does not help in the gentling process.

Cattle don't mind rain in the same way that goats do. Be very alert about indications of dominating behaviour because you can't correct it with a squirt bottle when it gets out of hand. Bottle babies are more prone to testing this because they don't have the same idea of species, but all cattle can try.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I will have to read through everyone else's replies when I have the time, so just be prepared, I may be repeating what they have said....

I have had the most success in halter training wild, untamed calves in this way:

Keep him in a smaller pen or have a small pen where you can herd him into to catch him. You can keep a halter on him or a rope halter, but ONLY if he is in open pasture, away from trees or anything else he can get caught up in.
Every day, 1-2 times each day, catch him and tie him up to a strong post. Give him a small treat in a bucket if you want (I use alfalfa pellets or a handful of alfalfa hay)
Don't pet him at first, but hang around him, do different chores that make you pass him frequently, etc
Once he starts calming down - and not lunging at the rope whenever you walk by him - then start petting his shoulder, neck or sides every time you tie him up
Then, after a week or two of the above, try leading him somewhere. Your first time leading him will probably look something like this: 



 
If he does flop over like in the video, I always get them up right away - if you don't, they will try it more frequently
In the daytime, if you like, you can just go out to his pen and talk to him, move around him, but don't target him or try to pet him much/if at all. Let him watch you and realize that you can be trusted
Rope halters work best for calves, IMO. Unlike normal halters, they tighten around the nose when pulled on, so the calves learn quicker. I use horse halters once the calf/cow is halter trained.

Last November, I bought a registered Red Brahman heifer who was 5 months old, but very large for her age and she was very, very wild. I tamed her in the way above, and in less than 4 weeks she was a sweet pocket calf. Now she is 2.5 years old and (very annoyingly) follows me everywhere, and she knows her name and comes when called. She's very good at leading and is practically bomb-proof (horse terminology). I remember that in halter training her though, she had a bad habit of leaping straight at me in an effort to get away, and one time she knocked me down and almost trampled me. She was huge for a 5 month old and very dangerous.

Sorry for the book, LOL. And in answer to one of your questions, yes, bulls grow bigger/faster than steers because of their testosterone. That is why many beef farmers leave their bull calves intact, to get the most growth out of them before they are butchered.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm not arguing with @Goat_Scout, at all. I just want to point out that steers are usually killed around 18 months, and bulls are kept alive for breeding. So bulls grow faster but steers get taller in the end. Our oxen, who would/could live 20 years, got MUCH larger than the bulls of the same breed. But bulls DON'T make good pets. It is not their fault. Please don't keep him a bull.

The calf flop? That is totally a real thing. I remember when we were training a team of 4 young steers, and one would decide to stop pulling. The other 3 dragged him!!! We'd have to stopp everyone, get William back on his feet, and start again. Later, he got severely punished by his team mates for causing problems.

Apparently, he'd always been able to get away with "the Flop" He was a slow learner...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Jessica84 you have cattle, although they are not pets. Do you have any input here? @ksalvagno you don't have cattle, but you are great at halter breaking I've heard. Can you help?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I'm not arguing with @Goat_Scout, at all. I just want to point out that steers are usually killed around 18 months, and bulls are kept alive for breeding. So bulls grow faster but steers get taller in the end. Our oxen, who would/could live 20 years, got MUCH larger than the bulls of the same breed. But bulls DON'T make good pets. It is not their fault. Please don't keep him a bull.
> 
> The calf flop? That is totally a real thing. I remember when we were training a team of 4 young steers, and one would decide to stop pulling. The other 3 dragged him!!! We'd have to stopp everyone, get William back on his feet, and start again. Later, he got severely punished by his team mates for causing problems.
> 
> Apparently, he'd always been able to get away with "the Flop" He was a slow learner...


What breed were your cows @mariarose? Don't worry, we aren't keeping a bull.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Do these look good @mariarose @Goat_Scout ?

https://www.jefferspet.com/products...84969fa2600f00000285/533884989fa2600f000002ac

https://www.amazon.com/Coastal-Pet-...8393&sr=8-6&keywords=18"+lead#customerReviews

https://www.jefferspet.com/products...84969fa2600f00000285/533884989fa2600f000002ac


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

1. Never used one.
2. No, it has a loop in it. No loops allowed
3. Never used one.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> 1. Never used one.
> 2. No, it has a loop in it. No loops allowed
> 3. Never used one.


Then what type of halter did you use? I picked a generic looking "calf halter" (the 3rd link) but I guess that's not it?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh the jersey flop lol dang those jerseys! Honestly with my jerseys I just man handled them around till the got the hang of it. But I was super bad about my jerseys and didn't really do much with them till after they had calf's and so I could kinda bribe them with the calf. 
BUT I have halter broke many high strung angus calf's! First thing I did was tie them to a good fence post. Let them have it out with that post instead of me. Once they are no longer standing where they are trying to sit down because they are pulling so hard then I step in. This steer is probably going to be much better then a angus though. Pull the lead rope but don't do it straight on, go from side to side. Once he takes a step stop the pulling. So it's going to be a pull and release. He will (should) start to get the hang of it and then ask for more. Before any of this I would try to befriend him first. Find a good treat he likes. If you need to have it on one side of the pen and another on the other side and when you get to the point of more then a step or two lead him back and forth. If you have help you can even have them hold a pan and give him a treat after a step or two. 
The have used a rope halter like in your post before and I have used just a normal horse halter. Both are fine. Do NOT do step one of tying to a post with the rope halter! It will tighten the more he pulls and if you have it too far down will cut his air off and if he fights a lot will dig into his nose badly. 
Now granted I have only had Jersey cows but your gonna love the little guy! So dang sweet! They are the most kindest cows I have ever seen in my life. This is my girl tonight trying to adopt my filly threw the fence lol she loves all babies and everything needs to be cleaned


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When they were little, we used a pony halter. When they were larger we used a cob halter. When they were full grown we used their nose rings, but they were fully trained by then. You don't touch the rings before they are trained. These were working oxen, remember, not pets, never allowed to be touched by anyone when we were not there.

The first halter is not meant to be left on, and it tightens and that can panic an animal. A panicked animal is unpredictable and dangerous. We did not like them. And I like to leave the halter on through the initial training.

The second halter does not control the head well enough. You see that ring on the bottom? Well it moves, all over the place. You want that ring to stay down by the muzzle. If you don't control down by the muzzle, the calf can learn to ignore you. There is immense power in that head/neck/shoulder even when young. What I said about never letting him know he is stronger than I am? That means controlling that muzzle, too.

A pony halter and a cob halter is shorter in proportion to a regular horse halter of any size, because a horse has a longer head than a pony or a cob. So a cob halter will fit better on almost any steer than a regular horse halter. There are cattle that have longer heads, proportionally. The Holstein, for one, and some of the breeds from India and Africa at first, although those jaws definitely thicken up as they mature. You do not want an Arabian halter, those muzzles are too dang small.

I've fitted a lot of halters.... Wow.

Gerry (my husband) is the best ox trainer in the world. All his cattle adored him. But I was more analytical about figuring out what worked and what didn't, and why. Between us, we were amazing at turning out working yokes and teams of oxen. And our milk cows liked me better.

I tell you this, not to convince you that my way is the only way (Obviously,it isn't), but to show I really have a lot of experience behind me. We don't have any cattle anymore. Talking to you has made all this come flooding back. So thank you. Our last team is now working at an historic farm in Texas.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Here is a quick image search of Gerry and his oxen.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ger...LeAhVRy1MKHeaxAMIQsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=820&bih=506
As you can see, they must be completely safe to take into crowds like that. That means trust. Trust and training, and never ever losing. They don't lose, we don't lose. That's all I'm trying to say.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

A school bus was stuck in the mud at one of our events. The picture here is me with one of our teams.
https://greenletters.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/frontier-day-story.pdf
James had just lost the bow that keeps the yoke on. It cracked and broke off, and everyone was at a stop waiting for me to fix it. That is trust. You can see the bow in the act of falling. And the yoke is on his back, not his neck. So he is not connected in any way.

By the way, the ox in front, closest to the camera? That's William, the one who tried the Calf Flop when he was young.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Oh, the article says that woman is Shelley McClanahan. It isn't, It's me. Shelley looks like Madeleine Stowe, the movie star? I don't. That's definitely me.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This was Chip, one of our Black Baldies. He was such a love. This is on our farm.
http://historyforfuture.blogspot.com/2011/02/single-ox.html


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> When they were little, we used a pony halter. When they were larger we used a cob halter. When they were full grown we used their nose rings, but they were fully trained by then. You don't touch the rings before they are trained. These were working oxen, remember, not pets, never allowed to be touched by anyone when we were not there.
> 
> The first halter is not meant to be left on, and it tightens and that can panic an animal. A panicked animal is unpredictable and dangerous. We did not like them. And I like to leave the halter on through the initial training.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is amazing!

You're welcome, (although I had no idea )

What do you think about this halter? https://www.jefferspet.com/products/pony-halter-21

This one? https://www.jefferspet.com/products/miniature-halter-horse-15m-color-royal-blue

This one? https://www.jefferspet.com/products/miniature-halter-2-yr-15m2-color-red

I looked at the pics of them and I think the rings on these stay by the muzzle.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That's the style you want, but they may be too small. I don't know the size of your steer's throat/poll. That measurement that goes behind the ears and down around the throat, is what will be the determining factor.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

This is the kind I use for my calves (one of the links you posted above):

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/pony-halter-21

I DO halter train/tie with rope halters. They do tighten but IME they are not cutting off circulation by any means if they are on the right way. I've been using them for 7+ years to halter train numerous calves of all ages/sizes and I've never had a problem. I don't leave them on though, the calves just have them on for 15-30 minutes each day while they're tied up and under supervision. But I do leave the horse/foal halters on if the calf is hard to catch. I LOVE those horse halters, they are 10 times better than these calf-made halters:
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/nylon-calf-halter-104-color-royal-blue
The calves always seem to get their noses out of these, and they just don't fit well overall.

When you have him tied up each day, I wouldn't make it longer than 30 minutes each time, and make sure he's always in sight. But most of that time should be him tied up and having to stand still (no treat to keep him occupied). I usually give the calves a treat _after_ they've been tied up.
Just do what you think is best for both him and you when he gets there. It shouldn't take long to have him halter trained and sweet as can be! I hope you will supply us with many pictures - Jerseys (mini and standard) are the cutest! :goatkiss:


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

This is the rope halter I use:
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/graphite-cow-rope-halter-color-lime-zest-black
And you'll need a lead rope for the halter if you don't already have one:
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/rainbow-poly-lead-rope-color-blue-purple-black


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Oh, the article says that woman is Shelley McClanahan. It isn't, It's me. Shelley looks like Madeleine Stowe, the movie star? I don't. That's definitely me.


Yes dear, we understand.(pat on head)

So Pronunced, that is @mariarose , not Shelley!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> A school bus was stuck in the mud at one of our events. The picture here is me with one of our teams.
> https://greenletters.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/frontier-day-story.pdf
> James had just lost the bow that keeps the yoke on. It cracked and broke off, and everyone was at a stop waiting for me to fix it. That is trust. You can see the bow in the act of falling. And the yoke is on his back, not his neck. So he is not connected in any way.
> 
> ...


Wonderful!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

You guys they sent us a picture of him. LOOK:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

:cow::cow::cow:


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

OH MY GOODNESS HE IS SOOOO CUUUUUUUUTE!!
















It's been a long time since I had purebred Jerseys. I miss their adorable little faces and the sweet personalities they seem to almost always be born with!
It's a shame that now they are breeding longer faced Jerseys instead of the traditional dished-faced ones.

For example - "traditional" dished-faced Jerseys (they're so cute..... your little guy is in this category):













And what I mean by the longer-faced ones that don't have dished faces:


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Goat_Scout said:


> OH MY GOODNESS HE IS SOOOO CUUUUUUUUTE!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I KNOW!!

Wow, I didn't know that! Interesting.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Are you sure that you're going to get him? Because actually, I don't think it'd be a good idea....


*Hurriedly looking up various cattle shippers*


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Smooth, super smooth @Goat_Scout!
:cooldude::cooldude:


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Goat_Scout said:


> Are you sure that you're going to get him? Because actually, I don't think it'd be a good idea....
> 
> *Hurriedly looking up various cattle shippers*


No! We already put a deposit on him and you don't know which farm he's at. . .so. . so there! LOL


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

21goaties said:


> . . .so. . so there!


Smooth, super smooth @21goaties
:cooldude::cooldude:


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

You're a meanie... LOL!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So guys,

The farm we are getting him from says they raise 100% grass fed cows, and never have to use any type of drug or dewormer on them. On their website they say that this is because they provide quality minerals for their cows, and rotate their pastures daily. 

However. They agreed to band the calf for us after they receive money (mailed check). When I asked if they do tetanus shots when banding, they said no, which makes sense as they don't give drugs to their cows.

But, do you think that will hurt him? I really don't want him to die of tetanus after we get him. Would it still work if we gave him the shot after we got him? If so would we use the toxoid or antitoxin?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I don't know the answer to that question, because we don't give shots/vaccines to our cows either. And we've never banded bull calves, we have them cut.

@goathiker @Jessica84


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Since the vaccine takes a few weeks to protect, they would have to use the anti-toxin if they gave it for you, so if your got the calf soon after he was banded, then the anti-toxin would still kick in.

I'm sorry that they won't do it for you. Being grass fed is no protection against tetanus. People have odd ideas about germs, don't they? I mean, we know what they are, how they work, it is no longer a mystery...

Consider making an agreement that they refund your money if he comes down with tetanus. Chances are he won't, so they should have no problem agreeing to that.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Since the vaccine takes a few weeks to protect, they would have to use the anti-toxin if they gave it for you, so if your got the calf soon after he was banded, then the anti-toxin would still kick in.
> 
> I'm sorry that they won't do it for you. Being grass fed is no protection against tetanus. People have odd ideas about germs, don't they? I mean, we know what they are, how they work, it is no longer a mystery...
> 
> Consider making an agreement that they refund your money if he comes down with tetanus. Chances are he won't, so they should have no problem agreeing to that.


That's a good idea! I'll ask them.

Would it hurt for us to give the antitoxin when we get him?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

As I said, if you get him soon after he is banded then it should still work. The trouble with taking him immediately is the danger of an infection of a badly done banding. The banding should really be well behind him when he comes to you. By then it is getting dangerously close to the time when the anti-toxin won't work. The danger of a badly done banding, or and infection from the banding is far greater than danger of tetanus. So the easy answer for everyone is for them to keep him after the banding for a week or two, and guarantee a refund should he get tetanus from this. Actually, the easy answer would be for them to give an anti-toxin injection, but hey, grass fed and all that.

But really, no one should take a JUST banded animal. Too much risk of a bad banding or infection. So, say that because it is a slight risk, and they are not willing to give the shot that would eliminate it, you'd like assurance he won't get the tetanus and put you out the purchase price, Tetanus is a horrible death that there is very little reason for in this day and age.

Or not. I'm exhausted and been in the hospital all day. My tone is probably sharper than you'd like. I'm not yelling at you. Just yelling in general.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goat_Scout said:


> we've never banded bull calves, we have them cut.


As I understand it, cutting has less risk of tetanus than banding does.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

mariarose said:


> As I understand it, cutting has less risk of tetanus than banding does.


Yes, that's why I said I can't answer that question.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Well, I asked them if they would be willing to give us a refund if something happens like @mariarose suggested. We'll see what they say.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Goat_Scout said:


> Yes, that's why I said I can't answer that question.


Since we traveled from State to State and had to comply with each State's requirements, there was no question of not vaccinating. If we did not get blood tests and vaccinations according to each State's schedule, we did not get the travelling permits. We have great vets who really worked hard for us. And as I said, First thing we did when we picked up the bulls or steers is take them right to the vet. Did not even bring them home first, and if they were intact, they got cut. Never banded anything that old.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So good news @mariarose @Goat_Scout , they had someone else come and band some of their bulls and THEY had tetanus shots, and the calf got one! Yay!


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Perfect!!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So turns out we're ending up getting him a couple weeks after banding after all. 
They have been busy but are going to deliver him Saturday. I will make sure to supply ya'll with plenty of pictures when he gets here!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We have him!!! He was delivered yesterday.

He is just as adorable as the picture they sent us (and so small - 5 months old!).  I will get ya'll some pics soon. Even though he hasn't been around people that much he is warming up, he rubbed his head on me today. He is a VERY laid back calf, they said he has been like that since birth.

He is missing his mommy though and has scours from stress.  I posted on Keeping a Family Cow about it but if ya'll have any advice that's welcome as well. He is also snotty but I think that's from the temperature change? (It is colder here than where he came from).


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Honestly, I'd give him a calf scours pill

Here is one, commonly found at feed stores








and another really common one.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

His diarrhea cleared up, sorry I never updated!

We have been attempting to halter train him the past few days using this method (similar to what @Goat_Scout suggested):

Tying him to a post with a rope halter (the kind that tightens around the neck/head when pulled) for a few minutes per day. We have not been able to get it around his nose so far, just around his neck.

The first time, he had no idea what was going to happen and came right up to the post with the already tied rope for some alfalfa pellets. When it was slipped over his neck he freaked out of course and started bucking. Kept the rope tight the entire time.

The second time was similar.

Third time he let us walk up to him to take the rope off.
All the times he wouldn't eat with it on (even though we made sure he was hungry) and kept the rope pulled tight.
Then today, he had figured out the trick and absolutely would not come up to that post to eat (because he knew that the rope laying in the bowl would soon move over his head). So we couldn't catch him! He stood there looking at us like "I know your tricks people" lol.

Any tips? We can't chase him around the pen trying to get this thing on him, and I'm afraid if we tried to drag him to the post someone would get kicked. He is in a small corral and it is very old. Only one or two of the posts are strong enough to tie him to. We do have a wooden chute that we got him in to take his temp before.

As long as you don't have the rope he will come right up for scratches.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yes, unfortunately that does happen with each calf.  They soon figure you out, and then you have to round them up each time before you can tie them. I guess I forgot to put that in my first post? :hide:

Which problem are you having? Haltering, or bringing him to the post? Or both?

To halter him, I have always herded the calf into a catch pen or something similar, then simply slip the halter over it's head.
If he's really difficult to catch, I would just leave a halter or rope halter on him. Since he's in a small pen, it sounds like there isn't really anything he could get his halter snagged on.

After he is haltered, if you can't drag him, then (while holding the end of the lead rope) push him from behind to the place you want him to go. He'll keep turning to the right or to the left, but eventually you'll get him to the post. It takes a while to get them there, but it happens. BUT, if he's a kicker (usually you can tell right away if they're kickers) I wouldn't try that. 
Another thing you could do is have someone shake his bowl of food in front of him, and let him get a lick of it (while you or someone else is holding onto his lead rope), then have your helper w/ the bowl of food back up a few steps (towards the post). Repeat until you get him to the post. But, again, if he doesn't really want to eat with his halter on, that won't help either.....
Honestly, I've always just pulled/dragged the calf to the post. Or I do the go-behind-and-push-em method. I think I've only been kicked once while doing the latter. But both work well for almost any kind of calf, and they do get used to it.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

One thing about kicking is if you are up close it will not hurt as bad. I have learned this the very hard way  another thing you can do to get the halter on him is shove him behind a gate. If the gate is at a corner run him into the corner and then swing it shut with someone behind him to keep him there. Have that person stay up close and try and keep the gate snug on him so he can’t get much power with his legs or even any room to kick.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So a quick update, we forced him in the chute and got the rope halter on him again (this was before Christmas)

It was a disaster to say the least LOL. Somehow we put the loop for the nose and the loop for the neck BOTH around his neck. Then he struggled and thrashed and had to be dragged to the post.
We decided not to push him, too wary of being kicked although he has never kicked before. The only things he has tried to do are rise up on his back legs one time (where we promptly yelled "no" and left) and head butting of course, which we always clap loudly and say no. We do not scratch his poll either, just his neck and forehead. He loves chin rubs and is very sweet for a dam raised calf. 

So, I think we are going to try the method @mariarose suggested. We have the pony halter, we just have to try it on him to see if it fits. We have a lead as well but it is too long. Anyone know of a short clip on lead? I couldn't find any on Jeffers.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Congrats to his recovery!

But why force him? He will make a much nicer pet and a better "horse" if he has full confidence in you. I say, "lead" him in a "rope" made from his desire to reach the bucket, and make him well used to all kinds of touch. How else will you be able to harness him, to trim his hoofs, to groom him?

Not to mention to take him out for a ride in town ...

Edit: Spelling mistake


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You can just make your own. Needs to only be long enough for you to easily put your hand on it to move his head (reward him when he moves it, even by accident) and must have no loops on it. Doesn't have to have a snap, you can just tie a short length on the halter before you put it on him.

Remember, in the training we did, the halter did not come off, until he was good and steady with the training.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

So ummm, a slight update.

We put Calvin out with one of the goat herds today for the first time (11 goats, all does except two 3 yo wethers. All small goats.) They are in a huge pasture with woods, etc. The fence is 4 wires of electric string fence, with a single wire around the goats' hay feeder and shelter to keep the cow off of them. The goats are terrified of him and after he chased them around the pasture they have been standing still in bunches staring all day and not grazing. If he gets near them at all they start running even if he is not chasing them.

I think he was just excited to be out of the small pen he has been in for the last few months, as well as being an energetic 10 month old steer. He started frolicking and eating grass, then chased the goats for little while. They got separated running and are now scared of him. He seems to have calmed down now (which is good because a goat could get hurt running that fast). I think he is looking for a friend because he walked up to some of them (an hour or so after first chasing them) and when they ran away as fast as possible he stared after them and mooed.

Anyone have any idea how long it will be before the goats start acting normalish again? If they would walk away slowly instead of full on panicking he wouldn't chase them. Right now he is on the other side of the pasture and the goats are still in a bunch hiding.

Here is a pic of Calvin:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

He is cute. Poor guy needing a friend.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh dear, what a horrifying appearance!  I don't know what to do with those skittish goats! Have them in a small pen over night just close to his?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Well he got cut on some old barbed wire in the pasture that the goats know to avoid. So he's back in the corral and we're going to have to remove it. We treated the cut (small scratches) and gave him tetanus and cdt vaccines. Also dewormed him. He moaned and protested the entire time. Goats of course are happy about this. I guess they're just going to have to slowly learn how to act around him. He doesn't try to hurt them they just get scared when he walks toward them and start running, which makes him start running/chasing them. However he did calm down after a few hours the first time. And it's not constant since he stops to eat a lot.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

So I look forward to new pictures with both calf and goats!


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Just wanted to update this, Calvin gets along with the goats better now, although they don't like each other. Anne our spunkiest goat had the nerve to run up and grab Calvin's fluffy tail in her mouth and pull/chew on it! She has done this several times. Wish I could get it on video. 
One of Calvin's favorite things to do is casually walk by the goats and nod his head at them until they move out of the way. And try to fit into their shelter which he is sure was made for him. He fit into it one time somehow even though there is a wire around it to keep him out. 
He also likes pushing a ball around with his head. And he will lay his head in your lap and fall asleep. You have to watch him since he is so big he could easily hurt someone, but so far he hasn't.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Cattle are lovely spirited beings. I miss our oxen so very much.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks for the update!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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