# to get a lgd or to not get one! justification needed



## primal woman (Sep 17, 2011)

I am thinking of getting livestock guardian dogs for my chickens and goats. Trying to justify spending a lot of money buying puppies. Thought I'd also check to see if there are young or adults out there to obtain for free or reasonable. I have had some response, but one was way too far away even though free. 

Sure I love my goats, but to spend hundreds on a dog times 3 which is the best number to have, plus all the dog food they would eat....gosh....I think I'd have more into my dogs than I have put into my goats! We are talking maybe a couple dozen goats total. I can't make up my mind. 

And I have plenty of feed for MANY more goats, if I got dogs...I could get more goats! UGH! :eyeroll:

Then what breed. Maremma's are available to me. Great Pyr. are always available, but I've always found them unattractive and have heard they don't work as good as they used to. Has 'man' ruined them? Others I do not know about. 

Any comments?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you need an LGD? Have you been having problems?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

^I have the same questions. 

LGDs are a lot of work, money, and time...sometimes they work...sometimes they don't. I wouldn't get one unless absolutely necessary.


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## primal woman (Sep 17, 2011)

Do I need one? You mean has any cougar or other predator gotten any goats? Should I wait until I have lost some goats? 
With that said, I did lose a baby this summer, but to what; there is no way of knowing. 
We DO have cougar in this area. They say coyote too, but I've only heard them once. They so far do not come close to my place. 

How is one to know if it is a good idea or not. Spend $250-$350 to feed ONE dog for a year. Or lose ONE goat wether that may be worth $75! Ugh. How to predict what a cougar will come to get. 

I do feel VERY fortunate that neighbors go out in state land and run their hound dogs. I am sure that helps.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We wouldnt be without ours! There are coyotes & loose dogs here.
When we went down to pick up our first pup my husband kept asking if we could afford it.
I said we cant afford not to.
They dont have papers; one was 200 & the other I traded for a couple of doelings. There are options.
Over & over they have proved their weight in gold. We have had no loss to predators.
The first yr with the first pup was a big trial; they are so much different than regualr dogs.
As for food yes they eat plenty that first year. But overall they dont eat as much as you might think.
These are Anatolians, one is 1/4 Pyr.


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## ms_mac (Oct 7, 2012)

*LGD led to goat purchase*

I wound up with 2 goats when I went to pick up my LGD puppy. It was an emotional decision because they were only 1 week old and irresistable. Now I am trying to help the goats survive my ignorance through this great forum. the puppy is wonderful and easy to take care of. I had a Great Pyrenees in the past and found him to be so excellent at guarding our miniature horses and his personality was different from any dog I have ever owned. love them! So I got into goats in a backward fashion but am trying to catch up. they are so lovable. ms_mac



primal woman said:


> I am thinking of getting livestock guardian dogs for my chickens and goats. Trying to justify spending a lot of money buying puppies. Thought I'd also check to see if there are young or adults out there to obtain for free or reasonable. I have had some response, but one was way too far away even though free.
> 
> Sure I love my goats, but to spend hundreds on a dog times 3 which is the best number to have, plus all the dog food they would eat....gosh....I think I'd have more into my dogs than I have put into my goats! We are talking maybe a couple dozen goats total. I can't make up my mind.
> 
> ...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I went threw the same thinking, and maybe my thoughts would help you decide. I lost 7 kids this year to coyotes, on the low side that is $700. I started thinking about getting a lgd, I think the cheapest was $300 that I found, I had the # in hand and was going to call that night, BUT then I started thinking, I have herd dogs, for the most part they only work the cattle but come in handy if I have a goat that does not want to go in the pen at night. The goats go out in the field with the cattle during the day so I would think the lgd would also want to protect the cattle, so what would happen if my herd dogs go out to do their job??? That right there put me off of getting a lgd, if it was not for my dogs I have now I would have had that little puppy. So as much as the ones you are looking at are figure how much you get for your goats and if that dog can save so many goats you broke even. I found other ways to go around my coyote problem, kids will be locked up till they are 2 months old, that way they have a chance to run to the herd if a coyote comes after them, they will also be big enough that they can not just grab the kid and run off with it before mom knows what is going on. A MUST that I have with my goats is that they stand up for their kids. I know they dont have much of a chance with a dog, but a coyote (at least the ones here) if they run at the coyote, even if it has a kid down, will drop it and run off. Now if you have a cougar in your area there is no way your goats have a small chance of fighting that thing off, and even if you have them penned in a good pen, they jump.


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

I honestly wouldn't even think about not having ours. Yes, they eat a bit the first year, but actually don't eat as much as you think. We have two. Started with one GP due to stray dogs killing baby goats. Got puppy, trained her, and then decided to get her a male working partner. Both dogs were under $150. 

They are not like normal dogs. GP definitely think for themselves, but also listen to you. They will eat and sleep with our goats. They do bark a lot, but they are their weight in gold. Haven't lost a goat yet  They also eat hay and goat chow. They do bark all night which you get use to quick. They dig ( this doesn't bother me since they dig in the goat pen and not try to dig out). People say they are roamers, but ours hate leaving our fence. They don't like to be away from our goats.


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## ms_mac (Oct 7, 2012)

*great pyrenees Scout*

I agree they are so different from other dogs that I have had over the years. My new puppy that is just 9 weeks old is already exibiting the same qualities that my older dog that I had in the past. they just seem to think a lot more and try to solve problems. Obedience is not their strong suit but they will sure put the fear of God in the heart of a predator!


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I've been looking into LGDs lately as we look for acreage.. and got a referral to Olympic Dogs. He raises purebreds and crosses and has a TON of info about the dogs on his website. Check it out for a bunch of reading material.. the dogs are pretty expensive (starting at 600..)


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

As far as the area goes, I don't know about a litte further out, where you are...but I've lived in the area since I was a small child, with horses, chickens, lambs, calfs and now the goats and never had anything eat or attack anything we've had. We do have cougars, but not many that I know of and you rarely, rarely...like once every five years or so, hear of one that turns to preying on livestock/pets. We do have coyotes, but we have a den one pasture behind ours that has been there forever with a whole pack coming and going and they've never come near our stock. I'd be most worried about bobcats. The only issue we ever had was a bobcat attacking our barn cat. Only have small black bears as far as bears go and they stay away from houses as far as I can tell.


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## Jessaba (May 13, 2010)

ms_mac said:


> I agree they are so different from other dogs that I have had over the years. My new puppy that is just 9 weeks old is already exibiting the same qualities that my older dog that I had in the past. they just seem to think a lot more and try to solve problems. Obedience is not their strong suit but they will sure put the fear of God in the heart of a predator!


Just to warn you..when they reach their juvenile stage (starting around 12 months) they seem to "forget" everything you have taught them. So be prepared. This is their teenage years and boy do they try to rebel! If you can make it through that without :hair::GAAH: then you are good! I think the juvenile stage is much worst than the puppy stage, because puppies you expect some bad behavior because they are learning.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

The best LGD I ever had was found in a box outside a pet store with at note saying he was a collie/Great Pyr cross and was the last of a litter that the man couldnt sell-Calvin would leave at night and drag the coyetes home to show me what he had "caught"-once I found him outside the barn all bloody looking sheepish-the wooden sliding barn door was torn up-i thought he had killed the goats-nope-the neighbors German Shepaherd was dead in the barn-along with 2 does that he had got to before Calvin got to him-I would say-start with a pup-IMHE an older pup or dog wont bond as well as a pup-of course be careful with mix breeds but I sure wish I could find another Calvin-My 3 year old Aussie will patrol but he isnt big enough to take a coyete-so my girls are looke din a steel barn at night.
Sorry so long winded-Just my thoughts


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## ms_mac (Oct 7, 2012)

*cost of LGD*

my first GP cost me $200 and I could see both parents which were great working dogs that happened to be a breeding pair. I just paid $700 for a GP pup with working parents. It took me a while to save up for the $700 but I was satisfied with the breeder and what they were doing. I cannot say the money is the guiding factor. I think if you can see both parents of the puppies and even mixed breeds can do the work needed.


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## primal woman (Sep 17, 2011)

All this has been great information. Thanks. Keep it coming.


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## Brooks-of-Judah (Oct 1, 2012)

I have a registered Anatolian and an unregistered Akbash (he's the one in my avatar picture). I, too, would not be without my LGDs! I have chickens, goats, a pig and a cat, and in the past 4 years the only thing I've lost to predators was a chicken that a hawk killed. I sometimes hear the coyotes go through at night, and we've seen both coyotes and foxes in close proximity to the farm, but they don't touch my livestock! I do recommend, if you get a dog less than 2 years old that you put it with animals that are bigger than it is. If it gets used to looking UP.....to the goats, chickens, whatever....in its mind they will always be too big to tussle with! These dogs WILL try to play with their herdmates. You have to not only make sure they're not with any little ones, but also just stay on top of things -- keep an eye on them numerous times throughout the day, and correct severely any nipping, chasing, etc. Just make sure they understand that is unacceptable behavior.

My Akbash, when he was no more than 4 months old, woke me up barking at a pack of coyotes one night! A good livestock dog is worth its weight in gold.


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## primal woman (Sep 17, 2011)

Advice taken. Thanks. And I will be careful. I found two that I want, but they are so far away. Trying to find other people who also want one/more because this lady has several. Anatolian/Maremma crosses that are 14 months old. A great price too. Anyway, I wonder why it is so common for people to say be so careful and all when these dogs are bred NOT to kill their own 'mates'. I understand I have to introduce slowly, watch etc. But take for instance I took in a Shepherd/Bernese mix male who was a city dog and eight years old. He is fantastic with my animals. Truly amazing. But alas, he IS a herding dog, not a guardian dog. Yes, I had to be slow and careful with him, but he gets it. Why does it seem there are so many warnings with these LGDs who are bred to behave themselves? Open to more input. I'm excited about going to get my two, but so far the trip and all is not working.


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## Brooks-of-Judah (Oct 1, 2012)

Puppies play. If you have a litter of pups, they tussle and wrestle, and chase each other around. A LGD puppy that bonds with a herd of goats wants to "play" with the goats. You just have to nip that in the bud, or put the pup in with some older goats that will correct the behavior themselves. The ideal situation is to have a mature LGD in with the herd, and the older dog will train the younger one not to nip at, chase, play with the animals they are supposed to protect.

They do outgrow the play behavior eventually, but you have to watch the young dogs. Your 8-year-old dog was long since out of the puppy stage.


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