# Extra teat



## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

Hello-- I have a question-- are extra teats always present at birth or can the develop later?
Thanks!
Tammy


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

From my experience they can show up later. I had a doeling that was definitely 2 teats when I sold her at 10 weeks and later found out from the buyer that she ended up with a 3rd teat. So I think they are not always visible at birth.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I think that sometimes an extra teat or a spur is "there" at birth but incredibly difficult to see or feel until it grows with the goat and becomes visible in the first few months. I don't think an extra teat can "decide" to grow after a goat is born, they are there at birth, but impossible to see! Does that make sense?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I always wait until they are 1 month old and really closely look them over.

When they are just born, the fluids may hide the extra teat really well. They are so small for a while, it is so hard to see flaws if they are present.

But I do find at 1 month old and wearing glasses helps, LOL. I have a chair and sit them up on my lap, look and feel.


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

Thx for the input. Followup question- has anyone ever had experience with an extra teat that was cut off at
Or shortly after birth and if so what did it look like months later?


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## twokidsandafarm (Dec 27, 2013)

My first grade doe had an extra teat cut of at an early age. It was hardly noticeable before she freshened. When she went into milk she had a small, soft bump on her teat. It was only slightly noticeable. If I weren't a newbie 10 yr old when I bought her, she would've never been bought! 

Raising ADGA Oberhasli, Alpine, LaMancha, and Nubians for milk, show, and fun!
www.twokidsandafarm.com


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I had a doe that had a 'teat' (it was more like a wart.. Barely noticeable.. That was cut off.. Couldn't tell at all  there was a very slight scar but barely  and she milked wonderfully  

And like above.. If we weren't Newbies it wouldn't have been a member of our herd


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Again, the practice of removing an extra teat is dishonest.


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

Sometimes there is just a tiny nub on the teat that hardly grows and doesn't have an orifice. Other times it is a split teat. For Boer goats ABGA has a good chart on teat structure. I don't agree with cutting any extra teats or nubs off.


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

Sometime it i separate from the "real" teat, right? Not necessarily attacked to it? I also believe the practice of cutting off extras is dishonest- just want to make that clear! Not planning on doing it- completely unethical.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, do not snip extra teats, I was told, some will balloon in the area it was snipped and will be way worse and ruin the Doe forever.
Dishonestly is definitely not right, it will never cover a genetic flaw.

You want separation at the bottom of the teat, not touching and has a good distance between them. Now, if it is a low split, it can be attached at the bottom area as illustrated in the acceptable ABGA teat structure. But it must be 50% or less the length of the main teat. Hope I answered your question for you.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Often times as she grows the space between them does as well. On Boers with the 2:2 structure or variation thereof, they are born with them fairly close together, they often look split in the first few months or they might not even be visible.


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I am asking primarily with relation to dairy goats- I have an issue with a "bump" on a yearling that a very well known and respected person in the dairy goat world has looked at and told me that it was an extra teat that has been cut off previously. Without accusing anyone I have contacted the breeder who is being very much less than helpful. I have not mentioned that I have been told it has been previously cut off, just that it looks like a rudimentary extra- and have included a statement from my vet to that effect. Again, I did not want to "accuse" anyone or get any other parties involved but as I stated, the breeder is being very dismissive and somewhat hostile so I am trying to find out if anyone else has had experience with this. Thanks


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Here is an article about phytoestrogens and a possible link to spur or extra teats:
http://www.desertwindsnv.com/herbspart4.html

After reading it, I stopped feeding Calf Manna although I really liked the product. (It has soy.)

It seems as if there is a huge discrepancy among breeders when it comes to full disclosure. Unfortunately, it seems like most people find out the hard way whom they can trust when first getting into goats.

I really appreciate knowing if there are any issues such health or confirmation problems so that I can make an informed decision.

P.S. I heard from a vet that the extra teats can show up when hormones kick in later.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I bought a Nubian doeling this spring. I didn't check her extremely close in the udder area, so guess what? Yup, tiny extra teat that wasn't noticable unless you really looked close. Now that she is 6 months old, it really shows. The breeder offered to take her back, but I had already fallen for her, so I will just deal with it.

I was told that Frosty Marvin sired does with extra teats and she is a FM granddaughter. My Nubian buck has never sired anything but 2 perfect teated daughters, so I will take the chance with her and disclose it to any potential doeling buyers. No bucks will be sold from her, just wethers.

It probably would have been easy to snip it off when it was tiny, but I'm not taking the chance on ruining her milking future, plus it would be extremely dishonest in case I ever sold her.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

I had a heart breaking situation this spring where the doeling of one of my favourite does (that I had to sell just I weaned her kids because of Uncle Sam changing some tax things and needing his moolah when we had been expecting a refund like every other year prior) ended up with a third teat. 

I was heartbroken as I absolutely 100% cull my herd for this and I had soothed my heart with the knowledge that I would get to keep this pretty little girl. I had always believed that they were present at birth and all these people who found them later had just missed them prior to that, but I KNOW she had 2 at birth. I know she had two for the first two weeks as i checked her every other day before I slacked off on it feeling secure in her two teated status. Then at 6 weeks I took a peek and there was a third teat. :evil:

I sold her, with full disclosure, to a pet only home who had experience in the past with Boers, so I feel secure that if they DO breed it won't be an issue for them like it is for me. 

That said, I have looked at some goats that i trust didn't have teats snipped who had small bump-like blind teats. Meaning it was a small teat-bump with no orifice. They very much looked like the goats i had seen with scars from having teats snipped off. But since these people really didn't care about extra teats they had NO reason to snip or be dishonest.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

glndg said:


> Here is an article about phytoestrogens and a possible link to spur or extra teats:
> http://www.desertwindsnv.com/herbspart4.html
> 
> After reading it, I stopped feeding Calf Manna although I really liked the product. (It has soy.)
> ...


I don't see extra information on any breeders who have endured these things about soy. 
Mentioning 2007 and it just stops, also the last link does not work, If you can find true solid facts on this, please post it, because I am having a hard time believing it myself.

I have to give my opinion on this from my experience.
I have never had an issue feeding calfmanna and get extra teats and other deformities from doing so ect. 
From when I first started in boers, I have experienced only 1 Doeling who changed from what I thought was 1x1 go to 1x spur. I checked her at 1 week old of course she was so tiny and it hid the low spur. 
I learned to check them at 1 month old and did really well from doing so.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

tasmithmd said:


> Thanks for the replies. I am asking primarily with relation to dairy goats- I have an issue with a "bump" on a yearling that a very well known and respected person in the dairy goat world has looked at and told me that it was an extra teat that has been cut off previously. Without accusing anyone I have contacted the breeder who is being very much less than helpful. I have not mentioned that I have been told it has been previously cut off, just that it looks like a rudimentary extra- and have included a statement from my vet to that effect. Again, I did not want to "accuse" anyone or get any other parties involved but as I stated, the breeder is being very dismissive and somewhat hostile so I am trying to find out if anyone else has had experience with this. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Dairy goat, oh I was thinking boer, now that you have mentioned that it is frowned upon with dairy breeds, snipping them will not cure the issue, they will continue throwing it into the lines, making it harder to breed out.


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## tasmithmd (Sep 20, 2013)

Exactly- and so I am pretty frustrated right now- thanks for all the replies


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> I don't see extra information on any breeders who have endured these things about soy.
> Mentioning 2007 and it just stops, also the last link does not work, If you can find true solid facts on this, please post it, because I am having a hard time believing it myself.
> 
> I have to give my opinion on this from my experience.
> ...


It sounded to me like they didn't get much useful info from surveying other breeders, just that they thought that soy caused a problem for their goats.

My thought is that if a goat has a predisposition to having an extra teat, excess hormones (plant or animal) could bring it out. I believe that some goats would never develop them no matter what food they get. So maybe if you wanted to make sure it isn't in your line, you SHOULD feed a lot of soy (at least for a while) to uncover any hidden genes? Just a thought.

I still have some Calf Manna&#8230;..so maybe I won't worry about it. Goats love it. (I love the anise smell!)


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I totally respect you dairy folks for your attention to teat & udder structure!
In the Boer & meat goat world it is not an issue.
Having said that, my girls have never had calf manna. Some are are 2:2 as well as 1:1 & they have produced either, even from a 1:1 buck out of a 1:1 doe.
Just this season a 1:1 produced a 2:2. Her other two girls from same kidding are 1:1.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

To answer your question: Some extra teats are obvious at birth or as a weanling, while others might not be noticeable and develop as the kid grows. I had one doeling that I kept and didn't see a teat issue as a kid, but when she freshened as a yearling, it was obvious that she had an extra teat that had developed. Didn't cause her any issues, but she had to be sold as a pet without papers as did her two doelings. 

Extra teats are not a good thing in dairy goats and there are some bloodlines that seem to bring them out more than others. There was one very well known nigerian breeder (no longer breeding) whose goats seem to have a problem with throwing teat issues from my experience. Their biggest problem was they were not culling goats with extra teats, but snipping extra teats off the kids, registering them, and breeding as if that was the normal routine. And it wasn't just rumor as it came straight from the breeder's mouth when I inquired about a doe they had for sale. They said the doe I inquired about had several teat spurs as a kid and that they just snipped them off! I was shocked. I'm glad they were honest about it, but talk about irresponsible breeding! Especially for such a well known breeder. Not to mention, any dairy goat registered with ADGA cannot have teat flaws. Obviously a mistake can be made if you don't see a teat problem, but when you know there is a teat flaw, it would be very unethical to register anyway. Teat flaws in dairy goats makes them ineligible for registration. Needless to say, I did not buy the doe and have personally seen extra teats on kids sometimes from that particular line of goats over the years.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic. I'm not sure how obvious it would be on an udder, if someone were to snip the teats off as I've not seen that before on a freshened doe. It would be hard to prove that the breeder did that I would think and by accusing them without being 100% sure...would cause an issue. A teat flaw can turn a $1000 goat into a $100 goat so I am sure there are unethical breeders out there who would snip the teats and sell the goat without disclosing so they don't lose money, but like I said, would probably be pretty hard to prove that if there is no obvious extra teat. Just a bump could be something else. Do you happen to have photos? I would be curious to see.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

There are several plants that contain large amounts of estrogen.....red clover, a lot of grasses in the spring, etc. If those were the cause of extra teats, then most mammals would have them popping out. I think some people just want to make an excuse for improper breeding.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

lottsagoats1 said:


> There are several plants that contain large amounts of estrogen.....red clover, a lot of grasses in the spring, etc. If those were the cause of extra teats, then most mammals would have them popping out. I think some people just want to make an excuse for improper breeding.


:chin: This thread reminded me of a few things. First, my daughter knew a guy who had two extra nipples -- he was 2X2! Also, I had a dog who had asymmetrical nipples and was one short. One of the ones she did have was a "bump." I'm sure it was not snipped.

And, yes, if it were simply a matter of hormones, there would be many animals -including humans- "popping out " extra teats. :lol:


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