# Two new kids mother not acting motherly



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok my go head to kids she is a older goat and is having a hard time her milk has not dropped yet I don't know why she did not clean off the second one and left it laying there I had to clean it off and keep putting it in front of her until she finally started licking it should I go and get some claustrum and go ahead and get it in them


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Have you tried stripping/milking her teats and absolutely nothing comes out?

Yes, the kids should have colostrum in the first hour. Are they up & active & rooting?

If it is very cold where you are and the kids are lethargic, be sure they are above 100* F rectal temp before giving colostrum.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> Have you tried stripping/milking her teats and absolutely nothing comes out?
> 
> Yes, the kids should have colostrum in the first hour. Are they up & active & rooting?
> 
> If it is very cold where you are and the kids are lethargic, be sure they are above 100* F rectal temp before giving colostrum.


They r active it's not very cold and I did check her tests I only got a few drops could her milk drop later


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Right now all she will have is colostrum varying from real thick yellow to mild yellow the first 24 hrs or so.
It is imperative they get colostrum. Get a 3 or 6 cc syringe, get as much as possible & dribble it slowly down the side & back or the kid's mouth. Give as much as they will take.
What I do is milk into the sleeve, draw it up & feed kid.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

nancy d said:


> Right now all she will have is colostrum varying from real thick yellow to mild yellow the first 24 hrs or so.
> It is imperative they get colostrum. Get a 3 or 6 cc syringe, get as much as possible & dribble it slowly down the side & back or the kid's mouth. Give as much as they will take.
> What I do is milk into the sleeve, draw it up & feed kid.


She doesn't even have enough to milk into something and pull out with a syringe I'm only getting like a few drops out of each year how do I get them take bottle


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Then you need colostrum replacer. Make sure you don't get colostrum supplement. Big difference.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Then you need colostrum replacer. Make sure you don't get colostrum supplement. Big difference.


Ok I got kid c colostrum and they drink from 6 on a baby bottle all the way down to three in between the two of them and they are still sucking on him or how much do I give them


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Is it normal for them to keep suckn on u and rooting for milk after they get fed


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

When you look down on them, are the sides of the belly sunken in, straight back, or rounded out?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

The girls r sunken in the boys r straight


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The bellies need to be straight. VERY slightly rounded is ok, but not any more than that. So your girls definitely need fed more. If the boys are straight, they are fine.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You want to feed them approximately every 3 hours, letting them drink until the bellies are straight to VERY slightly rounded. As the kids grow, they will need more to fill the bellies.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

mariarose said:


> The bellies need to be straight. VERY slightly rounded is ok, but not any more than that. So your girls definitely need fed more. If the boys are straight, they are fine.


Ok I've bn referring to plural but it's twins one boy and one girl thank y'all very much


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK, I wasn't sure, so I just did the plural, too.
You are very welcome.


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## tiff (Dec 29, 2017)

Could we be getting close to kidding? Udder seems more developed today and slight discharge. She doesn't like me to check her ligaments and moves when I try to check. FF, and not sure when she was bres


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

tiff said:


> Could we be getting close to kidding? Udder seems more developed today and slight discharge. She doesn't like me to check her ligaments and moves when I try to check. FF, and not sure when she was bres


Look for her udder to swell when u notice that u need stay close


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## tiff (Dec 29, 2017)

Honey21 said:


> Look for her udder to swell when u notice that u need stay close


Does it look swollen at this point?


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## tiff (Dec 29, 2017)

tiff said:


> Does it look swollen at this point?


It's the largest it's been so far.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

No. Watch for her teats to fill.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> No. Watch for her teats to fill.


It will look likes it's going to bust and b shiny almost the teat will b sticking straight out


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok they r started on the bottle when should I switch to milk instead of colostrum and would it b ok to put them bak with mom while bottle feeding


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

They can stay with mom while bottle feeding. Switch to milk 12-24 hours after birth.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok there poop is black and tary that is normal right


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

It would be good to keep encouraging the kids to nurse with mom. You can tie her up & put a little Karo syrup on her teats to encourage the babies to suckle. I just learned that scratching the kids just in front of their tails encourages them to suckle...it worked for my Christmas twins anyway. Good luck! As long as mom is nice to them it's good for them to spend their time with her.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Honey21 said:


> Ok there poop is black and tary that is normal right


Yes, that's normal.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

catharina said:


> It would be good to keep encouraging the kids to nurse with mom. You can tie her up & put a little Karo syrup on her teats to encourage the babies to suckle. I just learned that scratching the kids just in front of their tails encourages them to suckle...it worked for my Christmas twins anyway. Good luck! As long as mom is nice to them it's good for them to spend their time with her.


I'm hoping she will drop milk I checked her again and nothing she really struggled this pregnancy and doesn't even seemed concerned her kids r gone


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Is she eating ok?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

She eat some hay and then went and eat some leftovers I brought home from produce dep. She acts depressed like she doesn't feel good


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Did she pass her placenta?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes I saw that in the barn her stomach is very low hanging something it has never bn b4 she is older I'm not gonna breed her anymore after this


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Can you mix a bit of molasses with some warm water and give it to her to drink?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I'd give her some b complex.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

mariarose said:


> Can you mix a bit of molasses with some warm water and give it to her to drink?


Yes


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Do you give any sort of grain or pellets? How much? Is she interested in that?
Sorry she's still feeling poorly. You can also see if she likes Gatorade.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

No grain haven't started the herd on it yet for the year only give durng the winter will give water and molasses


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Unless you already have something, I would start giving her some "goat chow" type product--you can read the nutrition labels to decide which one has the most of what she needs....or maybe someone will recommend a brand. Maybe just start with a cup a day? Don't want to upset her tummy. Hope she & the kids are doing OK. You sure have your hands full, caring for a sick goat & bottle feeding kids too--good work!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Did she take the warm molasses water? Do you have any probios (or jump start, or probiotic of your choice)?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

mariarose said:


> Did she take the warm molasses water? Do you have any probios (or jump start, or probiotic of your choice)?


I took the kids bak out to her she accepted both but she still doesn't have milk I'm lost on that when she sniffs the boy she lifts her lip up like a buck . Yes she drank some of the molasses water she has hay and minerals and they r in the shed out of weather


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That's very good. If you have any probios,it would be a really good thing to give her. If you have any B Complex that would be a very good thing, too. Watch her with them. If she does not keep them clean, you'll have to wash their little butts periodically or they will paste shut. If they can't nurse, you'll need to feed them again, you can't let them get too weak. It is so good she'll let them stay. All 3 of them will be healthier, even if she can't nurse them, she can still mother them.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes she is being a very good mother I have bn giving them the colostrum since 5 til 12 so do I need change to milk or keep giving colostrum til tomorrow's it's 1 am here I started at 5 pm


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

She seemed better with the
Kids bak more relaxed like content


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That is very good news. It was smart of you to put them with her.

Tomorrow for the Milk, tonight for the colostrum.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Now the milk can I use whole cows milk from the grocery store I have milk replacer but have read they do better on whole milk


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I figured I should choose one b4 I start so I don't upset their tummies


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Fine. I like to add a dollop of buttermilk to my bottles of whole milk at first. And 1 bottle a day should have a pinch of baking soda. The buttermilk is a probiotic. I forget what the pinch of Soda is for.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

This morning I fed 8 ounces between the two the girl took 3 the boy took 5 neither were big bellied the girl seemed full though the boy wanted more is this normal for the boy eat more


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't wanna feed too much


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Stick with the belly barometer. You can't go wrong. You are doing great.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Underfeeding a bit, is better than overfeeding them.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Underfeeding a bit, is better than overfeeding them.


She is letting them try and nurse idk if they r getting anything or not is that ok is there something I can give her to get her milk started if she can I would think it b good if she raised them


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

That's great! There are lots of herbs that human moms use to increase milk supply--fenugeek, fennel & hops come to mind...no idea if they are safe or effective for goats. (The hops is why women used to drink beer for milk) Also they eat lots of oatmeal. But really the best thing is what they are doing--nursing. After they are done you could try to milk her out the rest of the way. I'm a La Leche League leader & we suggest that to moms who have low supply--though using slightly different language of course!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to milk her teats and see if she has milk.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

But it is so great she wants them to try.

Alfalfa pellets would be my choice to try first.

Don't let them get too hungry. Let them try nursing, then if the bellies are still needing filled, give them a bottle.

You are doing great.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

catharina said:


> I'm a La Leche League leader & we suggest that to moms who have low supply--though using slightly different language of course!


Yes, it is funny that even breast feeding women should be so sensitive to the fact we are all mammals. The mammary glands are the very things you are discussing, after all. Mammary, Mammal.

I just have to laugh sometimes. Life is so funny.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Honey21 said:


> She is letting them try and nurse idk if they r getting anything or not is that ok is there something I can give her to get her milk started if she can I would think it b good if she raised them


 Even smaller size udders get tight, especially first time mama's. If they are getting enough, you will feel it in their bellies. I pick them up and feel the lower belly in the flank area. You can see it that way too.
Compare the 2 kids, then you will know. 
If it is squishy or flat, not semi tight, they are not getting enough. If one or the both of them is not getting enough supplement feed whole cows milk from the store, but continue to allow them with mama.
It seems a bit weird she runs from the one, check the side the other one is not nursing from. It may be tight or she may have mastitis or some other issue there.

Milk her out a bit to see if she has milk as asked above and if there is, feed it to the pushed off kid. 
If she has milk, try the kid on her again,that is if her milk is good.

Feeding alfalfa hay and starting her slowly on good grain will help. Make sure she is getting enough to drink.

Bottle feed as needed.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Toth Boer Goats knows what is what. Follow what she says.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I tried to milk her and no success she is dry she allows both kids to suckle but I kno they r not getting anything I am bottle feeding every 2-4hrs cows milk and they r thriving up and active


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Honey21 said:


> I tried to milk her and no success she is dry she allows both kids to suckle but I kno they r not getting anything I am bottle feeding every 2-4hrs cows milk and they r thriving up and active


I'm go in to start her on grain see if she will produce any milk


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Keep trying to milk her it will stimulate her to make milk


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Is her udder hard?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice and questions by everyone.

Does her udder feel hard, nothing coming out, firm with some give, soft with nothing in there as if she were not preggo? 
Or she just may be dry because her kids are getting it all.

If kids are getting good milk, you will see a little bit of milk face.

It is good you are bottle feeding them now.
Also allowing the kids to nurse too and feeding mama a good diet, may help get her going if she just doesn't have enough milk.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Firm and soft just nothing coming out


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Have you worked out her teat plugs? Some are hard to get out of there.

Test her for mastitis, if she is clear, she is congested.
Here is a good read on congested udder. 
Warm compresses ect.
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/congested-udder-or-mastitis.146487/


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok I milked her and got some yay! It's clear no mastitis yesturday she didn't have any today she has some I've bn giving her molasses water every time I feed babies she wants bite bottle so figured she might b craving calcium can u give goats milk to drink in small amounts


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

If she was a bottle baby she might recognize the bottle. Don't let her drink any, milk is bad for adult goats' stomachs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They sell calcium drench. CMPK is one. 
If you wanted to give her some good calcium.
But do not over do it.
Or even tums for a temporary solution. 

I agree, no milk to adult goats.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Now that I kno the kids r getting something she acts like she doesn't want them to nurse


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

She has milk but very lol maybe a mouth ful for them


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

If she doesn't let them nurse can you put her in the milkstand with some grain to keep her busy? Then the babies could nurse. Then you can try to milk out anything they left to encourage her to make more. Is she getting some kind of grain or pellet now? I would increase gradually, maybe watch her poop & see how much she can eat without getting diarrhea. You could feed her Tums for calcium but I don't know the dosage. You are working hard & it sounds like it's paying off!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How old is the mom?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I do not kno the age I kno het front two teeth are gone so I'm guessing 10


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Why are they gone? Sounds like a lot more going on here and you may need to consider retiring her.

Ok. I looked back through this thread. What exactly do you feed mom? Do you have a good loose mineral out? What kind of copper and selenium supplementation do you do? It sounds like she may have a serious mineral deficiency going on. Not to mention missing teeth to make it harder to eat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.

We need more detail. 

Her udder really tight, full, hard, but no milk coming out to very little? Or is it soft and nothing in it?
How does the milk look?
Is she a self sucker?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Look I bought her four years ago her teeth were already gone she was emaciated and her feet were over grown not to mention u couldn't touch her I worked with her and got her feet under control she turned out b a good goat she has NVR had any problems but worms she has minerals free choice and hay


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Her udder is soft but has like hard knots in it I rubbed Vicks vapor on it and today it's just soft she does have milk but just very little


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Milk is clear and white well a off white


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

She eats hay (horse qaulity) she get bread and produce from my store I feed them pine trees and a vine that grows here idk the name but they love it I don't do any supplements as far as selenium goes or copper I normally feed grain during the winter but funds have bn slack


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

She has no problems eating it's her front bottom teeth


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Don’t give too much bread. It’s not good for them in large quantities. 

Has she been tested for CAE?


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

She really isn't getting a diet to support producing milk. They need calories, calicium, good minerals, selenium and possibly copper. At this point, she probably won't produce milk, she put herself into gestating the kids. I would continue bottle feeding the whole milk to the kids - baking soda is to prevent bloat just in case they are overfeeding or are not handling it well.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank u


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm doing the best I can with what I have at my disposal


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

We can tell you care a lot about your goats! We are all in your corner. Goats, especiallly pregnant mamas and kids, can require more than expected.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

You are a good goat mama because you are here asking for help, we are not downing you at all, we are here for you. I know how it is, when we are out of money, not a fun thing. 

Do you have any cattle or goat breeder friends that may have alfalfa hay and other things you might be able to get from them? Then pay them back later?
Or if you cannot care for them, to have someone who is able to take them?

She does need a different diet for producing milk. Alfalfa and calfmanna are good to help with milk production. But expensive.

The color of milk is throwing me off the way you are describing it. off white? Milk is suppose to be white, colostrum is yellow.

If she appears to have milk in there, yet nothing is coming out, she is either congested or has mastitis. Warm compresses and massages to get it loosen up and be milked out. 
Any lumps in the udder aren't good. 
If she does have mastitis or congestion it needs to be milked out. She will need treatment if she does have either issue. Then after treatment, if you want to dry her off, you can.

Bottle feeding the kids is wise, but it is with cows whole milk from the store, which is costly in itself. 
Most milk replacers cause issues with scours.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have bn milking her out and putting Vicks vapor on and her udder is soft now and she is letting kids nurse the milk is white now when I milked this morning


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Still small amount going to see if I can get some alfalfa


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I read turnip greens r high in copper she doesn't have fish tail so can I get kelp meal for selenium


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would guess more than likely her poor condition has caused this. Good chance her milk won't come in well this time around. Continue to work on getting her fully healthy and assess her next year for breeding.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

But not sure about the turnip greens.
Can you order copper boluses?

Do they have free choice, loose salt and minerals with a copper an selenium in it? 
Goat or cattle minerals work.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Yes they do


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok I found this in her stall this morning


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

Honey21 said:


> Ok I found this in her stall this morning


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Probably shed intestinal lining. Get a fecal done to include coccidia.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with the fecal, for worms and cocci.


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Probably shed intestinal lining. Get a fecal done to include coccidia.


Going to get that done tomorrow


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

How is everything going?


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## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

I wormed her really good she is back to normal eating and drinking her eyes look better poop looks good the kids r doing great she is letting them nurse although I am still bottle feeding I have cut bak on it though


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

That's great!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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