# Nigerian Dwarf MIlking Q&A



## Eliya Sage

Hello!
My name is Eliya Sage.
I'd like to begin with just explaining my situation; After many many long years, i have convinced my dad to get goats. He agreed, because he had tasted fresh goat milk many years ago, and remembered how sweet it was. When i convince my dad to let me get a pet, i first convince him he won't have to do any of the work. With goats, i knew, his help was unavoidable. But because he'd have fresh milk and homemade cheese, etc, he still thought it'd be a good idea to get some goats. So, we went threw the steps:
1#Picking a spot.
2#Build a shelter.
3#Preparing.
4#Give them something to play on.
5#Buying the goats.
6#Doing the research.
(More on these steps where in the comments below)

So when we started looking to buy our goats, we decided to start off with two pygmy weathers. So we could have some experience with goats before we got milking goats. We have had our pygmies since October, and they've become like family. By the end of the summer, we're gonna buy a ND doe, in milk. We haven't figured out if we're going to also buy a buck, because some say bucks are smelly and aggressive, and they make the doe's milk smell, and he may breed her too close after kidding... Then there's the worry of him breeding his own daughters if we don't sell them soon enough... Lots to consider. We're still a while away from buying our ND, and i hope by joining this website, some of the issues can be resolved. If any of you have questions, i may know, and if i don't, someone else watching this thread may answer, so feel free to ask. Also, since i still have lots to consider, i may end up asking lots of questions regarding, milking, does, bucks, etc.

Thanks for your time! Please if you have any suggestions, feel free to mention them! You can reply to this thread, or PM me. Have a good day!

-Also please refrain from talking butcher, as it may upset some views, including myself.


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## goatblessings

I disagree with sweetfeed. Molasses can cause acidosis and has little nutritional value, I stay away from it- I only feed pelleted feed specifically made for goats and have no problems in all my years of goat raising. They don't choke, nor does it expand their stomach. Only use baking soda if you need it - don't leave out free choice. A good loose mineral for goats is a must. If you want Nigies for milking, research some good milking lines, and average production. "Pet" quality tends to have very small teats for milking on the whole. Keeping bucks and does separate helps you not have problems with a goaty flavor to your milk, or breeding that is ill advised. Make sure you have a good fence the the little ones can't get through. Good luck on your new adventure, goats are fun!


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## Eliya Sage

goatblessings said:


> I disagree with sweetfeed. Molasses can cause acidosis and has little nutritional value, I stay away from it- I only feed pelleted feed specifically made for goats and have no problems in all my years of goat raising. They don't choke, nor does it expand their stomach. Only use baking soda if you need it - don't leave out free choice. A good loose mineral for goats is a must. If you want Nigies for milking, research some good milking lines, and average production. "Pet" quality tends to have very small teats for milking on the whole. Keeping bucks and does separate helps you not have problems with a goaty flavor to your milk, or breeding that is ill advised. Make sure you have a good fence the the little ones can't get through. Good luck on your new adventure, goats are fun!


I agree on the goats are fun part!!!
I understand there's different problems with either feed. I was told there are lots of risks to pellets, so i bought sweetfeed, which was what they had been fed. They're healthy and seem to adore it, It's up to every owner to decide which is best for their specific goats, and whats important to that specific owner, i guess.
Yes, i agree about not keeping it out, i was just suggesting new owners make sure they have it incase they need it.
Yes, i have done LOTS of research on NDs and their milk production. They are the best i could ask for, fitting to what we need in our situation.
And, Yeah, lots of people seem to say if bucks are kept with does, the milk will be fowl. Then i find people who say it's totally fine, bucks don't effect the milk. Just trying to get a majority of the opinions.
Thanks  
If you'd like to cast your vote on the poll i made, i appreciate it 
-Have a good day! And Thank you for your input


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## IHEARTGOATS

We keep our bucks in separate area.
They share a fence line, but the girls don't spend much time there unless they are in heat.
No issues with milk taste.


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## Eliya Sage

IHEARTGOATS said:


> We keep our bucks in separate area.
> They share a fence line, but the girls don't spend much time there unless they are in heat.
> No issues with milk taste.


Thank you for your input  I appreciate it  -Also, Since you keep them near each other, do you think there'd be a problem if _one_ buck was kept with_ one_ doe and the pygmy weathers? I see so many problems with keeping bucks with does, and then this thought keeps coming: "Well... where those really problems in the wild?" I understand the whole situation is completely different, and there are goat deaths in the wild.. 
Then, i think, "Well i know two goat-owners who keep a buck with their doe, and they sell the babies, and they've never had any problems... But, they don't milk their doe.." Is the buck more likely to breed the doe more often/sooner after the doe has kidded, if their kids are gone (sold)? If so, Would the fact that we have two smaller goats that wouldn't pose any threat to the buck, ease that? I'm not sure if that last part made sense..


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## IHEARTGOATS

Eliya Sage said:


> Thank you for your input  I appreciate it  -Also, Since you keep them near each other, do you think there'd be a problem if _one_ buck was kept with_ one_ doe and the pygmy weathers? I see so many problems with keeping bucks with does, and then this thought keeps coming: "Well... where those really problems in the wild?" I understand the whole situation is completely different, and there are goat deaths in the wild..
> Then, i think, "Well i know two goat-owners who keep a buck with their doe, and they sell the babies, and they've never had any problems... But, they don't milk their doe.." Is the buck more likely to breed the doe more often/sooner after the doe has kidded, if their kids are gone (sold)? If so, Would the fact that we have two smaller goats that wouldn't pose any threat to the buck, ease that? I'm not sure if that last part made sense..


I don't know the answers to your questions. We currently have 8 bucks. We want to control who we breed together and exactly when they are bred so that we know when they will kid.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

The buck is going to breed any does that are in heat, period. No matter how young, how close to having kidded, etc. 

You could consider getting an apron so he can't breed them, but he will still chase them around and stress them out. 

Keep in mind that buck smell is not the only thing that affects milk flavor. Copper and cobalt deficiency, plants in their pasture, colostrum still in the milk after kidding, all have their part to play. 

My does used to have bucky milk, even though they've never been housed with a buck. Starting them on copper bolus has solved that problem. 

There are feeds other than sweet feed and pellets. I use a Hiland Naturals.


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## lottsagoats1

I have had goats for 35 years. In all that time my bucks have always shared a small barn with the does, just in separate stalls. Right now the milk stand is surrounded on 3 sides by 3 bucks, 2 of which are at best 4 -6 feet away. I have never had a problem with the milk tasting off because of them. If that were the case, every gallon of dairy cow milk would taste like cow manure, because that's mostly what you smell in most cattle barns. Off flavored milk usually happens because of diet, genetics, health (worm loads, sick doe) or cleanliness of milk equipment/slow milk cooling.

I feed dairy goat pellets (Blue Seal) mixed with whole, native oats and alfalfa pellets and in the colder months I add soaked beet pulp; grass/weed hay, whatever tree trimming or fresh weeds I can scavenge, and free choice loose minerals and kelp meal.

Baking soda is only used in case of bloat or digestive upset. I never feed it to them. It makes them not eat enough loose minerals because their salt needs are met by the sodium in the baking soda.

Not all bucks are nasty. I have 3, A Nigerian Dwarf, a Lamancha and a Nubian. All are very sweet boys, fairly easy to handle. Yes, they do stink during rut, but I am pretty much immune to the smell. The boys have their own outside pen, they share during the warmer months. In the winter they are brought inside the barn and placed in 3 individual stalls.

Keeping a buck with the does will lead to unplanned, constant pregnancies unless you use a buck apron to block access. Nigerians can and will cycle year round. Some standard does will cycle during the off season, too. A buck in with the does can stress the does out by constant chasing and mounting and can lead to injuries to young kids, bucks and does if your buck is an especially aggressive breeder.


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## Eliya Sage

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> The buck is going to breed any does that are in heat, period. No matter how young, how close to having kidded, etc.
> 
> You could consider getting an apron so he can't breed them, but he will still chase them around and stress them out.
> 
> Keep in mind that buck smell is not the only thing that affects milk flavor. Copper and cobalt deficiency, plants in their pasture, colostrum still in the milk after kidding, all have their part to play.
> 
> My does used to have bucky milk, even though they've never been housed with a buck. Starting them on copper bolus has solved that problem.
> 
> There are feeds other than sweet feed and pellets. I use a Hiland Naturals.





lottsagoats1 said:


> I have had goats for 35 years. In all that time my bucks have always shared a small barn with the does, just in separate stalls. Right now the milk stand is surrounded on 3 sides by 3 bucks, 2 of which are at best 4 -6 feet away. I have never had a problem with the milk tasting off because of them. If that were the case, every gallon of dairy cow milk would taste like cow manure, because that's mostly what you smell in most cattle barns. Off flavored milk usually happens because of diet, genetics, health (worm loads, sick doe) or cleanliness of milk equipment/slow milk cooling.
> 
> I feed dairy goat pellets (Blue Seal) mixed with whole, native oats and alfalfa pellets and in the colder months I add soaked beet pulp; grass/weed hay, whatever tree trimming or fresh weeds I can scavenge, and free choice loose minerals and kelp meal.
> 
> Baking soda is only used in case of bloat or digestive upset. I never feed it to them. It makes them not eat enough loose minerals because their salt needs are met by the sodium in the baking soda.
> 
> Not all bucks are nasty. I have 3, A Nigerian Dwarf, a Lamancha and a Nubian. All are very sweet boys, fairly easy to handle. Yes, they do stink during rut, but I am pretty much immune to the smell. The boys have their own outside pen, they share during the warmer months. In the winter they are brought inside the barn and placed in 3 individual stalls.
> 
> Keeping a buck with the does will lead to unplanned, constant pregnancies unless you use a buck apron to block access. Nigerians can and will cycle year round. Some standard does will cycle during the off season, too. A buck in with the does can stress the does out by constant chasing and mounting and can lead to injuries to young kids, bucks and does if your buck is an especially aggressive breeder.


Okay. I have posted on other goat websites asking if there was anyway to stop a buck from breeding a doe, besides castrating him. Never found anything. Then in these last two posts i was informed there where "Buck aprons"..
Seems like something i NEEEED to look into. How effective are they? Is this something special, or can you DIY? Are there downsides to using them? Why don't more people use them?


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## Eliya Sage

Also, I think the problems and stress comes when there are 2 bucks chasing one doe. One doe and one buck, that shouldn't be stressful, right? Also, i'm planing on keeping all my bucks/weather's horns short, and when i get the doe, i'll let her have bigger horns. not huge, but maybe an inch or two bigger than the male's.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Any number of bucks will be stressful for the does. He will still try and mount them and chase them around no matter what.

Buck aprons are pretty effective if they stay on. There is a lady on here who makes them.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/buck-anti-mating-aprons.188318/


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## Eliya Sage

Thank You!!! With that, i'm positive, if we get a buck, we'll make one or order one from her. I'm super happy! I think if we got a buck, keeping it on wouldn't be as difficult for us to keep an eye on him to make sure it's on, at least, not as hard a time as other people have, My parent's room looks right down on their enclosure, And since when they're out of the pen, we're outside _with_ them.

I've found so many people saying bucks don't always effect the milk taste/smell. Making it so the buck wouldn't breed, has been my main worry, along with the milk.
I only have a few more things stopping us from getting a buck with our doe.
Stress: Seems like stress is a big deal. Even when the buck can't breed her, she'll still be stressed from the "mount".. Should i try and get a buck that's polled?
(I don't want a buck that's been de-horned. I don't want to give profit to anyone who does that. I see the reasoning, but i simply think it's just inhumane.)
If he's polled, and she's not, that'd help her defend herself, for sure.. _(right?)_
Or i could get a polled pygmy.. (from what i've read. give ur opinion?) Nigerians are only slightly larger than pygmies, correct? If he was slightly smaller, or the same size, without horns, she'd really be the boss. Hmm, i like that idea of having the doe be "momma boss" The only other problems i can think of, are: What if he breeds any doelings? But, if we where concerned about him bothering the doelings, we could have peace of mind during the day-time, because of the apron, and since we lock the goats in the shelter at night (for safety from predators), we could bring any doelings inside, that the doe has, at night, right? I could get down with this. we have a large dogcrate, i could put a heatpad on the ground, some towels, a stuffed animal to cuddle with, and if it's necessary, set an alarm to wake up and give her bottled milk we got from the doe, that day.


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## ksalvagno

Polled or not, hormones are what is driving him and the horns will not stop him.


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## IHEARTGOATS

Good luck with your aprons 

Edited to remove unnecessary content.


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## goatblessings

There are a lot of threads here on horns vs. disbudding. If you are considering dairy goats, most people will want them without horns. I disbud for reasons that I consider very important, and breeders who do aren't "inhumane". You can't just "shorten" horns - they either have them or they don't.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Even if the does have horns and the buck doesn't, he's still going to stress them out. The long and short of it is, if bucks and does share pens, the does will be stressed out.

You're not going to be able to watch them all day to make sure he doesn't get the apron off and breed the does. 

Not all bucks are well mannered towards kids and kidding does (the birthing fluids trigger the hormones and they go wild).


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## ksalvagno

Keep it friendly, keep it fun. No personal attacks. All problematic posts have been removed by me. Any more will result in further action by the moderators.


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## Eliya Sage

ksalvagno said:


> Keep it friendly, keep it fun. No personal attacks. All problematic posts have been removed by me. Any more will result in further action by the moderators.


I deleted my posts. It got too out of hand far too quickly. I hate i got into this so soon after joining. I Think i'm gonna go back to BYC. Seems to be more of a nicer vibe of members. Nothing against ya'll. I walked into this for being unspecific.


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## IHEARTGOATS

Eliya Sage said:


> I deleted my posts. It got too out of hand far too quickly. I hate i got into this so soon after joining. I Think i'm gonna go back to BYC. Seems to be more of a nicer vibe of members. Nothing against ya'll. I walked into this for being unspecific.


I was a little harsh
I apologize 
This is a good place to learn
I hope you can figure out what is best for you


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## Mac's Rainbow

I guess my question is if you are only getting 1 or 2 does why you are feeling you need to get a buck? The other thing is you have 2 wethers so I would make another pen and shelter and house the buck and one wether in one pen and house the doe and other wether in the other pen. 
Mac's Rainbow
SKM


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## capracreek

Does have to be freshened every year to maintain milk production. You stop milking 2 months prior to kidding and so I would think a buck would be a great option if you do get another doe. Due to goat disease not many will let you bring in a doe to breed.


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## MellonFriend

Hi, I'm not sure if you have already left this forum, but I just felt like I had an opinion on your question. I'm in a similar situation as you where I am completely new to milk goats. Here's my question for you: Do you have Nigerian Dwarf breeder near you? because if you do you can maybe have your goats bred without having to own a buck and deal with the problems of owning one. You can just bring your doe to the buck and have her bred for a stud fee (assuming proper timing with her heat cycle). Just maybe something to consider and research. Sorry if you feel like this forum was too stiff, it's been a great help to me, and I would urge you to give it another chance.


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