# Raw vs Pasteurized



## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

So this might be a controversial topic, I tried to search for another thread like this but couldn't find anything. I've been trying to research this but I'm finding totally contradictory information and haven't been able to just find straight facts without there being someone else saying the opposite. Can you guys give me some opinions on what you all choose, or point me in the right direction to find some valid information?


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

You'll find it just as confusing here. People tend to have strong feelings on the topic. What you're going to need to do is listen to all of us crazy dairy goat folk with a grain of salt and then choose what is best for you and your family in your particular situation.

We practice being as clean as is practical as we collect and store our milk and we drink it raw. I don't know anyone in my area who pasteurizes and I have NEVER heard of anyone in this vicinity (including several babies raised on raw goat milk) getting ill from drinking raw milk. Reportedly, heat treating can kill some of the beneficial enzymes in the milk. So we choose raw.

When you are running a small dairy, it is much easier to stay on top of sanitation than it might be in a large, commercial dairy. And if you do have a slip up,you usually know about it and can use that batch of milk for cooking only or for other livestock or pets or - what the heck - throw it on the compost pile.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Scroll down to the very bottom of this page. You will find threads on this topic.;-)


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

nancy d said:


> Scroll down to the very bottom of this page. You will find threads on this topic.;-)


Ahh, thanks! Why in the world did those not come up when I typed the titles word for word in the search bar? Blech. Off to read!

Oh, off topic but, I found some goats milk at walmart today and bought some. Someone please tell me my nd milk won't taste/smell like this! I don't think I can even drink it. :faint:


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## Jasmar (Mar 28, 2015)

It won't! That stuff is NASTY.


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

Jasmar said:


> It won't! That stuff is NASTY.


It really is very, very gross. Think I can trick my toddler into drinking it if I put nesquik in it? :lol: Otherwise, I wasted $5.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

A secret to finding subjects on TGS is to search using Google or something. A lot of the top responses will be links to Goat Spot threads. Much less frustrating than using the forum search function...:thumbup:


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

You really should pasteurize for human consumption to be safe. Anywhere there is livestock and even in many areas there isnt, there is your typical bacterias in the ground. E-coli, staph... How does this translate to milk? Goats can get environmental mastitis and you wouldnt even have the slightest clue to them having it, as it doesnt manifest in the same way clinical mastitis does. There can be no signs or symptoms. It can come and go as the goats immune system fights it off. This is typically in small quantity but it is present. So if a human drinks the raw milk, there is a chance that person can get sick. Age and health would be huge factors as well.

Personally, I have drank it both ways. Prefer it pasteurized. To me it tastes better.


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

TDG-Farms said:


> You really should pasteurize for human consumption to be safe. Anywhere there is livestock and even in many areas there isnt, there is your typical bacterias in the ground. E-coli, staph... How does this translate to milk? Goats can get environmental mastitis and you wouldnt even have the slightest clue to them having it, as it doesnt manifest in the same way clinical mastitis does. There can be no signs or symptoms. It can come and go as the goats immune system fights it off. This is typically in small quantity but it is present. So if a human drinks the raw milk, there is a chance that person can get sick. Age and health would be huge factors as well.
> 
> Personally, I have drank it both ways. Prefer it pasteurized. To me it tastes better.


Mastitis can make you sick? I've never heard of that. I've had mastitis three times and have always been encouraged to continue nursing, so I guess I figured it was similar with goats. Ahh, so much information to sift through...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Mastitis is caused by a bacterial infection. The bacteria can make you sick absolutely.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I prefer it raw & nothing in any store compares! My view is that we take chances everyday just being alive. With good handling practices, sanitary conditions and a little common sense you should be ok.


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## nestinghillsfarm (Jun 15, 2015)

jmez61690 said:


> Ahh, thanks! Why in the world did those not come up when I typed the titles word for word in the search bar? Blech. Off to read!
> 
> Oh, off topic but, I found some goats milk at walmart today and bought some. Someone please tell me my nd milk won't taste/smell like this! I don't think I can even drink it. :faint:


HAHAHAHA!!!!! The lady I got my wether and buckling gave me a few quarts to try of raw milk. I doint even drink cows milk. Gives me gas, haha. And never drank raw milk of any kind before. But that was the bomb. Drank it all in 2 days.

Bought a quart of goats milk at food city. $4.49 a quart. I about throw up and down the drain it went. Wouldnt even feed it to any of the animals.

Si I feel your pain.


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

nestinghillsfarm said:


> HAHAHAHA!!!!! The lady I got my wether and buckling gave me a few quarts to try of raw milk. I doint even drink cows milk. Gives me gas, haha. And never drank raw milk of any kind before. But that was the bomb. Drank it all in 2 days.
> 
> Bought a quart of goats milk at food city. $4.49 a quart. I about throw up and down the drain it went. Wouldnt even feed it to any of the animals.you
> 
> Si I feel your pain.


It's so sad! I gave some to my toddler and she took a sip, made a face, handed it back to me and said "This is yucky" and ran away. But I snuck some nesquik into it and she drank it! I'll just make it chocolate milk until it's all gone! :lol:


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I prefer raw, but I have a small herd of disease tested goats (Johnes, CL, and CAE), and I handle the milk myself. I prefer raw because I have severe allergies, and when I'm drinking the goat's milk, it's been the only thing that can help me. I keep a close eye on their health and udders. The udders are washed with 1 cup white vinegar in 3 cups of water, with a pump of dawn dish soap, and a bit of tea tree oil (the tea tree I have found to be effective in treating mild cases of staph, so I use it as a preventative). I also give my milking girls a chewable vitamin C once a day starting a week before they freshen, continued a month after. And if they have any staph (wet soil - we get udder bumps now and then) I treat the udder with tea tree, and hit them hard with the vitamin C. I keep a CM/T test on hand always and test them now and then, when I think of it.

Oh no, don't drink the store stuff! Nasty. :lol: The only time fresh goat milk tends to be bitter is if they are low on copper (copper bolus when needed), or have mastitis. Or if you have a traditional cheese-making breed.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I drink it raw... It helps me with my allergies, and I think it's strengthening my immune system


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

We always do raw. Pastuerization kills bad bacteria, but it also kills the good, and destroys the enzymes that make it so good for you. Pastuerization can cause digestive issues in some people, because the enzymes needed for digestion are gone. Plus, our milking doe is a Toggenburg mix, so the kind of heating necessary for pastuerization makes her milk taste bucky. Yuck!


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## jmez61690 (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks for all of the responses. I've continued doing research and have pretty much watched every "raw milk" video on YouTube. It seems like, from what I can tell, most people that raise their own animals drink raw with no issues. At least, I couldn't find any examples of someone getting sick from their own raw milk. Every example I could find were people who bought raw milk from large farms. That makes me feel more comfortable since they'll be our goats, we'll only have two, and we'll raise them from bottle babies on land that hasn't had any other livestock on it. (At least not in the last thirty years.) Since I have a two year old and a nearly one year old I think I'll probably take more precautions and drink it raw myself for a while until I feel more confident!

PS I could not be more grateful for all of you on this site. I am learning more from you all than I have reading article after article! Thanks again for being awesome!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I see no reason to pasteurize!
We've had raw goat milk for 6 years and never gotten sick from it. In fact all of us are very, very healthy!
And pasteurized milk tastes gross

People have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time. Why would it make us sick now?


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

Oh, the store milk is sooooo bad! 

We drink and sell raw. It's legal in Oregon under certain conditions. Some of my customers have serious digestive issues. Three have Crones. So, I am very careful with the milk. It's the raw milk that helps them, though. Like it was said, I want those beneficial critters in the milk.

Take how you handle the milk seriously, but I think it's worth the risk.

one warning: goat milk can help you gain weight!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

melbah1 said:


> Oh, the store milk is sooooo bad!
> 
> We drink and sell raw. It's legal in Oregon under certain conditions. Some of my customers have serious digestive issues. Three have Crones. So, I am very careful with the milk. It's the raw milk that helps them, though. Like it was said, I want those beneficial critters in the milk.
> 
> ...


Gain weight? I drink a ton and I've lost weight


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Actually for everyone saying / thinking that pasteurizing milk diminishes the nutrients in it, might wanna do some research. All scientific testing shows no measurable decrease in milk *or most other foods) after pasteurization. Here is a blurb:

"For example, in the case of milk, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration states that there are no significant differences in nutritional value between pasteurized and unpasteurized milk."

Now I am not a huge fan of USDA but there is enough scientific research out there to get a good understanding. Most of the sites that are against pasteurization will say ridiculous stuff like babies (be them human or animal) cant thrive on pasteurized milk. Really? Pasteurized milk is vastly better for a baby then formula and babies grow reasonably well on that. Might wanna ask anyone who pasteurizing their milk and feeds babies with it. I dare anyone to come to my farm and tell me that after looking at my babies. The confusion here is often people judge dam raised kids vs. bottle raised kids. The problem with this is, bottle raised kids do not have a readily available milk source in front of 24/7 like dam raised kid do. So of course there is going to be a noticeable growth difference But that has nothing to do with nutrients.

BUT as mentioned, pasteurization does kill the good bacteria as well. It also "destroys" the beneficial enzymes. Thus why people with digestive issues will see a greater benefit from raw milk. But in terms of nutrition, there is no measurable difference.


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

*Raw VS Pasteurized Milk*

I had the same questions a few years ago and I accidentally found some information from a Dr. in Wisconsin who explain what happens when the milk is pasteurized. He stated the problem is with the pasteurizing. Milk when pasteurized is heated to a temp high enough to kill any bacteria in the milk. Hello, no only does the heat kill the bacteria, it also kills off the enzines (sp), hemogoblins, allergy resistances and any other good parts of the milk. So basically you are drinking dead water milk colored, except for a little calcium. Doctors will tell you that milk is hard to digest but do not go into any explanation as to why it is hard to digest. The pancreas has to produce the enzines to break down food, especially milk. The natural enzines are already in the milk so the kid or calf can use the milk as is. But we humans got smart and decided we needed to make our milk safe to drink. Gov't orders""!! How many centuries did humans drink milk with out pasteurizing it ??? Thousands !! Just make sure you have a good healthy animal to obtain your milk from and enjoy it as it is. God did not screw that up !! Hope this helps clear up some of the misconceptions about raw milk. I like to refer to it as fresh milk and dead milk for pasteurized milk. Go to Pasteurized vs Raw milk on the internet. That is where I found this information. However it may have been taken down due to the fact Dairy is big business. The federal government will back big business and mislead the general public. Arkansas last year made it legal for dairymen to sell raw milk up to 500 gallons per month. Check it out.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

"and any other good parts of the milk. So basically you are drinking dead water milk colored, except for a little calcium"... really? So the protein, fats, and most of the vitamins and minerals that are unaffected by pasteurization dont factor into your statement? And why does it have to be a government conspiracy. Its a scientific fact, that if you drink raw milk, however slim, that you put yourself at risk. Any milking animal can have any number of sub clinical bacterial infections in their udder and you would never be able to tell. Visually the animal could look completely healthy. Anyone can confirm this by sending in milk samples to a dairy lab. 

Another thing to think about. If pasteurizing milk turned it into "dead water the color of milk", then how is it, kids raised on nothing but pasteurized milk grow just as well as kids raised on raw milk? If you like, I can get pictures of all my babies who were all raised on pasteurized goats milk. We pasteurized because of the elevated levels of bacteria this year due to a super light winter and hot early wet spring. Feeding babies raw milk that is high in bacteria is a large cause of kids getting the runs and bacterial gut infections. Kids under 3 weeks of age that come down with the runs and stinky poop, bacteria is the reason. Coccie and parasites can not effect kids this young. 

Personally never heard a doctor say milk is hard to digest. But as we all know there are two drastic sides to this topic. And no God didnt screw that up. But we did. No animal was ever created with the intention of it to be kept in such over populated confined spaces. Compounding parasites, sickness and bacteria. Bringing a fanatical point of view to an open discussion doesnt help anyone. 

Again, Id like to mention, I drink goats milk either way. Make cheese from unpasteurized milk. I do prefer the taste of it pasteurized if I am drinking it. I have never noticed a difference in its digestibility either way. Having a fanatical stance either way is a mistake.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I always get a kick out these. Most of the people who are arguing the badness of "pasteurized" and "grocery store" are not actually talking about pasteurized milk but rather, homogenized milk which is completely different. 
Pasteurized milk is gently heated just enough to kill most of the bacteria, homogenized milk is beaten to death...Two totally different things.


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## LibertyHomesteadFarm (Feb 1, 2014)

Yes, the homogenization is definitely bad!
I personally drink raw milk, but then, my cleanliness standards are WAY above commercial pasteurized dairy standards.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I always get a kick out these. Most of the people who are arguing the badness of "pasteurized" and "grocery store" are not actually talking about pasteurized milk but rather, homogenized milk which is completely different.
> Pasteurized milk is gently heated just enough to kill most of the bacteria, homogenized milk is beaten to death...Two totally different things.


I never knew that. Never hurts to keep learning Doesn't matter with me though I'll keep drinking it raw....


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

*Raw VS Pasteurized Milk*

Each to his own, if you like it pasteurized great, drink it that way, NO PROBLEM , I have never heard of gentle heat. If it is hot enough to kill bacteria it is definately hot enough to kill the enzynes !! Harder on your pancress, plain and simple. But that is why we love American so much, you have freedom of choice. God bless


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

In comparison pasteurization is heating milk to 160* for 15 seconds and then cooling quickly. While some things may be lost, cream still rises on it and it acts in every way just like raw milk. 

Homogenization uses pressure to create heat. The milk is squished until it is almost steam and forced through a nozzle under this tremendous pressure into a cooling tank. It is then irradiated to kill everything in it. The process splits up the fat globules and changes it completely.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

To pasteurize or not to pasteurize? That is...actually, that is _not_ the question. I've come to realize that we have been (through unintended ignorance) approaching this from the wrong angle altogether. Read on if you're interested...

First, an interesting side point: not all the cases of "contaminated milk" making people sick, have actually been confirmed.

- I read of at least one incident in which raw milk was blamed for Listeria in the pasteurization vat - even though test after test was done on the raw milk and dairy, and no contamination was found.* (Listeria could easily have come from the unwashed hands of a worker.)

- You probably have heard the ridiculous story of Morningland Dairy and the cheese fiasco.

- Raw produce, undercooked meats, etc. can also carry bacteria, but if a person has been drinking - or even _been near_** - raw milk at the time they got food poisoning, the milk is sometimes blamed because doctors have been brainwashed to think raw milk is always a deadly poison.

*Some cases of illness due to raw milk have been confirmed though,* so it's wise to be careful. Please, never state categorically that "Raw milk is safe!" or "Raw milk is dangerous!" because it depends. Not just on the milk, but on the people drinking it. Some individuals simply have weaker digestive systems, and get sick from the littlest things. There's a reason, and I'll explain it in a minute.



> People have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time. Why would it make us sick now?


 I love this question!!! Actually, I have been learning a LOT about this very subject over the past year. The reason is simply that the good bacteria in our intestines have given way to bad, leaving us vulnerable to infection. Why has this happened? Probably because of the modern Western diet, emphasizing empty carbohydrates, loaded with synthetic pesticides, preservatives etc., and including hardly any real fermented foods. (Have you ever had REAL lacto-fermented pickles?! :yum: ) Also, the overuse of antibiotics has almost certainly contributed heavily. If we don't make our bacteria happy, we absolutely can't expect to be healthy.

My point is that even _if_ the milk _is_ a little contaminated from time to time, _*we shouldn't be getting sick from it!*_ Our bodies should be able to handle it! But the sad truth is that many bodies can't.

This problem is compounded over generations, because children inherit their bacteria balance from their mothers.

Unbalanced intestinal bacteria are the root cause of a whole host of problems - including autism and other neurological disorders such as ADD and Tourette's; Crohn's and IBS; acne and other skin problems; food allergies and environmental allergies; and on and on. (Don't take my word for it, do your own research! If you have a health problem, chances are good that it will improve over time if you take probiotics.)

It's possible to re-balance your bacteria by taking lots and lots of probiotics, or lots and lots of fermented foods. I think every woman should do this, as a gift to her future offspring if for no other reason - because they will inherit her bacteria balance. That's why I make a point of drinking lots of kefir every day.

*It was a news report I read online. At the end, one of the investigators was quoted as saying, "It just had to be the raw milk. There's no other explanation."  I can't find the article now; I wish I could.

**A few years ago, someone on TGS reported a story of a friend who was feeding raw milk to a pet. A child in the family came down with Salmonella poisoning, and the doctor said it was the milk - even though the child hadn't even been drinking it, and no tests were done on the milk.

Now, with all that off my chest...I love my ND milk unpasteurized, warm from the goat! It's like chocolate milk. Yum, yum, yum, yum!!!!! Nothing, to me, comes nearer heaven than sitting by my goat on a warm spring evening, drinking her milk.


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## ProvidenceHill (Sep 9, 2013)

To the OP - yes, this is a really controversial topic. I am the only local dairy goat keeper I know who pasteurizes. I don't mention it when I talk to my goat keeping friends because I don't want the lecture about how horrible that is, how it negates all the benefits of drinking your own milk, etc. etc. If they choose to drink raw, fine. And if I don't, that should be fine too. But I find it pays to just keep my mouth shut about it in most cases and not open that can of worms in general conversation.

I pasteurize because it causes me less stress as the goatkeeper. I try to keep everything as sanitary as I can, but it gives me great peace of mind when I am giving my toddler a sippy cup of milk to know that if I screwed up somewhere I am not risking her health. I like being able to give goat milk to anyone who is visiting my home without worrying about them being pregnant, immune compromised, or just uncomfortable about drinking raw milk but too polite to say so. And I like being able to give their visiting kids a taste of goat milk without feeling like I have to get parental permission.

And yes, even home-pasteurized milk from your own goats is better and healthier for you than the homogenized, ultra-high-temp pasteurized, possibly-full-of-hormones/medicines/who-knows-what milk you buy at the store. You know what your goats are eating, what medications they have or haven't had, and how they are handled. And no, home pasteurization does NOT make the milk taste bad, especially if you chill it quickly. I have tasted our goat milk both raw and pasteurized and they taste equally delicious (and not at all like the nasty stuff from the store, don't worry).

All to say, you should make whatever decision makes you the most comfortable, and don't let anyone make you feel guilty for choosing one way or the other!


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