# Teat Structure



## Kaylam

Hi, this is the first time I’ve posted in this section so I hope this is the right place for my questions!

I am fairly new to Boer goat breeding and selling. I do not show, but I may at some point. 

Recently, I had a potential buyer come to see a 7 mo old doeling I have. I had looked at her teat scructure and determined she had 2 & 2. The buyer looked and pointed out that one of the teats is split. 

So I later looked at the ABGA teat scructure guide and I am confused which picture represents her. The split teat is split about 1/4-1/3 the way down. 

Q#1 So is this a fishtail? or?


...and 

This doeling is a bit on the small side, I believe due to copper and selenium deficiency in the dam (grateful for the information TGS has on the topic!) The breeding of the Dam is pretty good I think. She has 7 ennoblements in her recent lineage. Her granddam, on the sire’s side also has 7 ennoblements. That’s the best of the doelings’ lineage. 

Q#2 So if you could comment on the price, that would be helpful as well. I don’t have any good pics at the moment. She’s very sweet, easy to handle, and feminine. Small for age size and the teat problem. Could I reasonably ask for $300? The lady that looked at her is still thinking about purchasing her as a commercial doe. She was hoping for a show correct doe.

Thanks ahead


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## GaGoats2017

Can you post pictures of the teats, it might be easier to tell.


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## Kaylam

GaGoats2017 said:


> Can you post pictures of the teats, it might be easier to tell.


Yes, I can do that. I'll be back later when I get a picture.


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## GaGoats2017

While you are out there, could you get some pictures of mom and dad? And some of the doeling?

I know price differs in many areas, but I would love to see her before I start guessing prices. She sounds like a nice little doe!


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## toth boer goats

Yeah, I agree, we need pics to help you further.


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## Kaylam

I have some pictures. Not sure how helpful the teat pics are. I wish now we would have tried laying her on her side! Really hard to get a good side view. Let me know if you need more.

The sire is very scrappy looking right now. He's 20 mos old. And they all need their hooves trimmed.

The dam is the one with a large spot on top of her back.

The pictures aren't the best. Hope they're helpful. Thank you appreciate your thoughts 










https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/365c74a1530a039f636cd7646807e68e[IMG]

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/6f158185cd0ce655b7bc677b44a3c23b.jpg


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## catharina

She's cute!


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## Kaylam

catharina said:


> She's cute!


Thanks. I just realized I uploaded duplicates.



















Two more


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## nancy d

Does the split teat belong to the young doe? From what I can tell she might grow out of it. Inotherwords, as she grow those close together teats become clearly separate as they grow.


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## Kaylam

nancy d said:


> Does the split teat belong to the young doe? From what I can tell she might grow out of it. Inotherwords, as she grow those close together teats become clearly separate as they grow.


Yes they belong to the doeling. That's very interesting! It's really hard for me to get a good look at them, my eyes don't see close up like they used to. I had no idea they were so dirty 

Thank you.


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## toth boer goats

Is that 2 separate teats or 3?
It seems as if it has a indent there like it is a fish teat or nub maybe, So hard to tell.

If it is 2 and separate, you can tell when gently pulling the teats apart, it will go all the way down to the stomach wall and not connect. It may be really close and separate. 

If they are not separate and never going to be separate, it will not go all the way down, but be connected at the bottom to the main teat. 
It may be a 1/4, 1/2 or almost fully connected.


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## Kaylam

toth boer goats said:


> Is that 2 separate teats or 3?
> It seems as if it has a indent there like it is a fish teat or nub maybe, So hard to tell.
> 
> If it is 2 and separate, you can tell when gently pulling the teats apart, it will go all the way down to the stomach wall and not connect. It may be really close and separate.
> 
> If they are not separate and never going to be separate, it will not go all the way down, but be connected at the bottom to the main teat.
> It may be a 1/4, 1/2 or almost fully connected.


I think I need to look again, but put her on her side. She has 2 teats on each side. On the left side, she has two teats, but one of them is split, like two nipples side by side, connected with tissue part way down. I believe they were completely separate from the other teat. There appeared to be two milk ducts on the two teats that were connected. So would they possibly become seperated with time? If so, what category would they be in at that point? I'm trying to figure out if they are in the "Questionable" category or the "Disqualification" category.

I hope that is clear. But since you asked, and I really struggled to get a good look, I need to do it again 

Thank you.


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## Kaylam

toth boer goats said:


> Is that 2 separate teats or 3?
> It seems as if it has a indent there like it is a fish teat or nub maybe, So hard to tell.
> 
> If it is 2 and separate, you can tell when gently pulling the teats apart, it will go all the way down to the stomach wall and not connect. It may be really close and separate.
> 
> If they are not separate and never going to be separate, it will not go all the way down, but be connected at the bottom to the main teat.
> It may be a 1/4, 1/2 or almost fully connected.


I think I need to look again, but put her on her side. She has 2 teats on each side. On the left side, she has two teats, but one of them is split, like two nipples side by side, connected with tissue part way down. I believe they were completely separate from the other teat. There appeared to be two milk ducts on the two teats that were connected. So would they possibly become seperated with time? If so, what category would they be in at that point? I'm trying to figure out if they are in the "Questionable" category or the "Disqualification" category.

I hope that is clear. But since you asked, and I really struggled to get a good look, I need to do it again 

Thank you.


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## toth boer goats

It will never separate, if already connected.

It is a disqualification if it goes past 50 % of the main teat.


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## Kaylam

toth boer goats said:


> It will never separate, if already connected.
> 
> It is a disqualification if it goes past 50 % of the main teat.


Ok, so the main teat being the one that is larger? or the main one for nursing?

I think it is over 50% since the split goes 1/4 - 1/3 down.

Thank you for your help. So I think it's best to sell her without an application for regristration(?)


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## spidy1

I found a chart that may help...


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## Kaylam

spidy1 said:


> I found a chart that may help...
> View attachment 126981


Thank you, I think the one teat fits the number 12 pic.

Thank you All for your comments. TGS has been a very helpful site to learn from


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## toth boer goats

That is a disqualification unfortunately.


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## GaGoats2017

Who is this one? The mama? I love the way she looks in this picture!


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## GaGoats2017

What's the teat structure of the parents? Wondering who it came from.


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## Kaylam

GaGoats2017 said:


> Who is this one? The mama? I love the way she looks in this picture!
> 
> View attachment 127083


Yes that her Mama. She's my favorite. Very sweet too. The picture was taken after we brought her home. We have two does that are our "good" purchases. I like this ones femininity. Our other doe is taller but more masculine looking. They both have good breeding. This does teat structure is good. I believe the teat problem came through the dad. I'm currently trying to sell all the offspring and the buck so that I can have a buck who at least matches the quality of the two "keeper" does. I am currently watching the comformation section on TGS to learn what to look for in a buck.

I have the doeling listed for $300, I don't know if that's a reasonable price. I've noticed sales between $200 and $400. I've only had her listed a few days. Is this a slow time for selling goats? I don't see much activity on the sales sites.


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## Kaylam

GaGoats2017 said:


> What's the teat structure of the parents? Wondering who it came from.


I don't know the structure of dad's for sure. I remember it being 2 x 2 but I can't say for sure and unfortunately he isn't going to roll over for me, haha. But my daughter reminded me that his dad, had a similar teat issue.

I'm just realizing the error of my ways. Things are beginning to click for me


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## toth boer goats

You can breed clean teated Sire and dam. 
But way down the genetic pool, if one has a bad teat structure, may throw it on occasion. 
Nothing more devastating then to have a gorgeous kid and find bad teat flaw, in any situation. 

$300 is basic registered price. 
But with a flaw, if she is not able to feed her kids, it is too high.


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## Lstein

Finding out that your buck, that fathered all your kids that year, has a bad teat structure. I made that mistake once, who'd of thunk to look down there on the buck!  Lessons learned....


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## toth boer goats

Yes, always check the buck and the Doe's teat structures.


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## Kaylam

Yes...so true


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## Kaylam

I found a buck on a reputable site. He is being sold for a lot less then due to an umbilical hernia. Does anyone know if that is genetic? The post says he would still be able to breed. I have not contacted the seller. I wanted to hear people’s thoughts first.


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## Goat_Scout

I am pretty sure it's not genetic. We've had calves get umbilical hernias, they usually go away with treatment, but that is not always the case. 

I would ask how the seller knows that the buck will still be able to breed? And I'd definitely want to look him over in person before buying.


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## Kaylam

Thank you I’ll do that. We purchased one of our keeper does from her. The doe was limping and had been for a few months. The breeder just didn’t have time to take care of her. The doe is doing great. We’ve had her for 3 years now. But I realize it’s not the same thing. I just mention all that because I’m seeing a pattern. They have a lot of goats and they’re an older couple so I think it might just be a time/needs issue.

I plan to ask questions soon. I just wanted to hear other people’s thoughts first. 

Thank you!


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## toth boer goats

Kaylam said:


> I found a buck on a reputable site. He is being sold for a lot less then due to an umbilical hernia. Does anyone know if that is genetic? The post says he would still be able to breed. I have not contacted the seller. I wanted to hear people's thoughts first.


 I would not recommend getting a goat with a hernia for breeding purposes.


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## Kaylam

Ok. I am giving it a lot of thought. Thank you!


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## Kaylam

toth boer goats said:


> You can breed clean teated Sire and dam.
> But way down the genetic pool, if one has a bad teat structure, may throw it on occasion.
> Nothing more devastating then to have a gorgeous kid and find bad teat flaw, in any situation.
> 
> $300 is basic registered price.
> But with a flaw, if she is not able to feed her kids, it is too high.


Thank you...just noticed this reply.


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## mariarose

Kaylam said:


> I'm currently trying to sell all the offspring and the buck so that I can have a buck who at least matches the quality of the two "keeper" does.


Hi Kaylam, just wanted to say that I think what you intend is wise. IMO the buck is the most important person in your herd, and should never be substandard to your best doe. Where I live, that is the exact opposite attitude of the majority of goat owners, who's herds get more mediocre by the year, because a billy is a billy, is a billy. You are much smarter than that, plainly.


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## Kaylam

mariarose said:


> Hi Kaylam, just wanted to say that I think what you intend is wise. IMO the buck is the most important person in your herd, and should never be substandard to your best doe. Where I live, that is the exact opposite attitude of the majority of goat owners, who's herds get more mediocre by the year, because a billy is a billy, is a billy. You are much smarter than that, plainly.


Thank you for that


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## toth boer goats




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