# Hunting



## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

I would like to know from those that have used their goats while hunting if you prefer to bring your goats along while spotting and stocking or if you leave your goats at camp after you've packed in and set up your base camp for that area? Im planning on useing my boys on alot of my hunting trips.


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## tgallaty (Dec 11, 2008)

I've taken my goats on a number of hunting trips. Sometimes, I have them right with me while spotting/stalking, and other times I leave them tied in camp. I have found that it is _usually_ no trouble to stalk within rifle range of deer or elk with the goats by my side. If I'm bowhunting, it can be a bit more difficult to get within range. So, if I'm hunting with a rifle, I am more likely to keep the goats with me, but if I'm hunting with archery equipment, I leave them at camp.

Tim


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

Tim, so how have your goats done around downed game?


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey Nate!
I can't speak for Tim but ours don't care at all. In fact you have to push them out of the way or tie them when you are working up the animal to keep them from stepping on it to see what you're doing.


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## tgallaty (Dec 11, 2008)

Ditto what Rex said.

Tim


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## Hasligrove (Dec 10, 2008)

If you leave them tied at camp...are they alone? I worry about that. Usually there would be someone around our hunting camps at any one time...just trying to think ahead though.


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

Ours get left alone everyday in hunting camp. They get to know the routine. This is not the time to be introducing goats to a high line. Young goats learning the particulars of being tied out, can and do get in some messes that could cause them harm, supervision would be recommended then.


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

Right on thanks Scott, Ya i just didnt think the goats would be to handy to have around when your trying to put on a stock with a bow. On a rifle cow hunt i could see just letting the goats hike around with ya.


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## steve morgan (Dec 13, 2008)

I'v had the goats hunting with me 2 years now. First year we camped at the end of the road so we sometimes left the goats in the horse trailer. This last year we took 4 goats up the hill to a spring where we camped. Staked them out, no highline. All went well. I have heard that deer aren't as hard to get close to as elk when hunting with the goats. I'm bow hunting, so need to get close to an animal. The problems I have are the wolves that now reside where I hunt, and the noise my goats make when I leave them alone. This combination is not good. Kind of like ringing the dinner bell. So the goats go with me always, good or bad. Can't say they have kept anything away, just don't know. I always have a good time though. steve


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks Steve thats just what i wanted, different peoples ideas and expierences. Ya we dont have wolves down where i hunt yet, emphasis on "yet". We do have alot of mountain lions and bears though. I always had the dream of packing into the selway wilderness up in idaho and doing some elk hunting. I think the wolves have ruined that dream. Sorry thats a whole different thread that can go on for days.
Nate


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

I know a fella in Colorado that loved hunting with his goats this past fall. He even had an encounter where a spike bull came in to check out the goats. 

Hunting with 2 - 4 goats would probably be pretty managable, we usually have too many along to make it practical.

One other thought, over the years I've had calling sequences, while elk hunting, that brought in a predator. A few cats, coyotes and a bear, how would those encounters play out if I had the goats with me too?? Much different than a random encounter, these predators were coming in looking for a cow or calf elk. I don't have the answer, just a thought.


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

Ya i think im going to try to train my boys to be secure and happy back at camp while im out hunting. I have a hard enough time trying to get in on game without six goats following me around while im stocking. Will just have to see how everything goes.


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## Bryan (Dec 20, 2008)

Last year my son and I were packing in about three miles for an overnight elk trip. we were almost to our camp spot when an elk bugled in another diretion. we had about 50 minutes of light left so we decided just to go after the bull, and take the goats with us. We hurriedly dumped the saddles so the bags wouldn't make any noise and took off cross country. 

We had only gone about 400 yards when I saw something about 20 yards away throught the thick stuff. I froze, the goats milled around, my son looked at me like "whats up?". Then a whitetail doe came sniffing towards us to check out the goats! She came within 12 yards of me, but I didn't have a doe tag. My son did, but from his point of view he had no clear shot. He tried to move around and get a clear shot but it was just to thick. He played cat and mouse with her for probably 3 minutes. 

I have never been able to move or even be that close to a whitetail without them going ballistic! So either the goats changed her reactions to us, or she was just a genetically defective doe who wanted to be removed from the gene pool!

My son wants to take a couple of the goats and soak thier lower legs with Elk Wiz! I don't think I want to see what a bull would do to catch one of my packers!


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I think the best thing to do with goats in a huting camp would be to put them in the trailer they came in and leave them there all day. If you have your ties rigged low you can give them room to lie down without going sideways and getting tangled with the goat next to them. Then you could leave them with a hay bag, not a net, and they would be fine for many hours, since if they can eat, lie down and ruminate, they will be fine.

This would keep them safe from pretty much anything with four legs.


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

The problem with that is the places i like to hunt are at least a five mile hike in. Im not worried I know ill have many great experiences hunting with my goats.


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## Terri S (Nov 30, 2008)

Herb said:


> Ours get left alone everyday in hunting camp. .


Scott, how do you get out of camp with out the goats following you? I know we have many phone calls from would be hunter/goatpackers and the question of what to do with the goats at camp always comes up.


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## Sbell (Dec 13, 2008)

I put mine on a high line in camp like you would with a horse. I have been concerned about kitty cats but people I know that have doing this alot longer than me have told me they have never seen or heard of problems. Maybe the human scent keeps them at bay?


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## steve morgan (Dec 13, 2008)

One thing I did't mention about my hunt in Idaho 2 years ago is that a bear came into camp when we had the goats in the horse trailer. When I got back to camp the back of my hunting pardners truck was all tore up by a black bear. The goats were fine but were quite upset because his truck was only thirty feet away. My friends truck had a bunch of food in the back that the bear wanted. He wanted it so bad that he came back for more a little later and I ended up using my deer tag on him, which is ok in the Idaho archery season. The goats go with me from now on. I may stake them out close by when I'm by a wallow, or just let them follow along. So many things to learn. Steve


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

We put the goats on a line, or they would be more than happy to and would go along. Here's a photo as I was leaving camp for an evening hunt a couple years ago.

[attachment=0:soke6sez]elkhunt07_001.jpg[/attachment:soke6sez]

While at the trailhead, we use the trailer and 3-12' sections of fence to make a nice pen. Works great when available, but most of our trip is packed in remote. We didn't see the trailhead for 8 nights this year, so the boys had plenty of time on the line. Not a great predator concern in the area we frequent, if there was I'd put up a portable electric fence to discourage unwanted visitors.


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## steve morgan (Dec 13, 2008)

Herb, Isn't that a KIfaru tent? I have one that looks a lot like that. Got the stove also. Great set up. Only 15 lbs. stove and tent combined. Steve


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

I am a bow hunter. I havenâ€™t hunted with a rifle in 10 years. The trips I have taken my goats on I let them hike right by my side. I left the saddles, panniers, in camp. 

Here is my experience. They are the best decoy out!!! 

We have walked up to a heard of elk to around 15 yards. The heard bull bugled right in my face. I didnâ€™t have a big bull tag. So I could not shoot it. I did have a spike/cow tag. I tried to get a shot at one of the spikes but missed. I should have just shot one of the cows that were only 20 yards away. I was using 7 big white goats and had a friend with me. We hid behind the goats and crawled up to the elk. The elk didnâ€™t even care the goats were there until they saw me.

A friend of mine almost killed a 6 point bull this year on an open bull unit with 3 goats and me standing right by his side. The elk was 40 yards away. 

I have used them for a decoy on the mule deer rut; I even bought a goat a few years ago just because his colors looked just like a mule deer. It is actually unfair for the mule deer. Shhh donâ€™t tell. :shock: Goats without packs sound just like deer walking unless you have a loud baaaing goat which I donâ€™t have. If you use a grunt call the mule deer will come in â€œCLOSEâ€ when they see the goats they are curious. They will give you a shot but they wonâ€™t stand their all day.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Buckmaster,
Less said about this the better. This is one of the hot buttons for wildlife managers who are afraid this will become the norm for hunters.

Not saying don't do it, just might want to be careful who you express this information to. Remember we are a public forum even though we are all friends, you never know who's reading it over your shoulder.


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

Kifaru's largest tipi and arctic stove, about 24.5lbs, you are correct, it is a great rig. Rex and Terri made a custom sized set of panniers to handle the stove better, carries very nice and makes for great living in the back country.

Interesting observations swbuckmaster, have not had any encounters that close the few times I've hunted with the goats along. Game animals are pretty quick to adjust to new hunting tactics, they learn to avoid things that cause them harm. For example, there's plenty of areas out there today that you don't want to blow a bugle call. If goat use reaches such a level, I feel the game response would change too, they're not curious of wolves anymore.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

That's good to know Scott. This is one of the things John Mionczynski was extremely concerned about getting out to the general public. He nearly had a stroke when I even wrote a hunting chapter in Practical Goatpacking despite my not mentioning this issue at all.

Land managers had told him that there would be bans if there was even a hint of this kind of use of goats.


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## Herb (Dec 12, 2008)

The hunting world can be pretty competitive, always looking for the latest and greatest thing. If goat use climbs that ladder, it will peak and fall as the rest. As one that's passionate about the hunting pursuits, there's so many factors that come into play, having a goat with you will not give you an "unfair" advantage. Every year that I think I have the hunting thing figured out, I get re-educated the following year. Keep after it, enjoy the success when it comes, more importantly, enjoy the skills you enhance as you will reap the rewards everyday.


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## nrspence (Dec 10, 2008)

Amen to that Scott.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

So far my hunting experiences with goats have been while tagging along with others on their hunts. A buddy and and I packed into the Gila Wilderness for his bow bull elk hunt this year. While hunting, as he snuck around I would tag along 50 yards or so behind, along with my goats. We called one bull up to 40 yards. The bull didn't pay any attention to the goats. Another time we had a cow start barking at the goats. She worked her way around to get down-wind of them. Once she smelled them (or maybe us) she bugged out, but not really as if she was afraid. Deer have actually been curious about the goats, coming closer to check them out.

I went with another buddy on an Oryx hunt. Oryx have amazing eyes, and are very wary. We got within about 600 yards of one. I was hunkered under a juniper tree but the goats were feeding and messing around out in the open. The Oryx saw them and watched them for a minute or so, then went back to feeding. But when my buddy tried to get within range it saw him about 400 yds out and took off. So it wasn't concerned about the goats at all.

I always take my goats with me. They are used to sticking close to me all the time. Also we have lots of predators (wolves, mtn lions, etc) in NM so I really want to keep them close to me. The two things I worry about most are other hunters shooting my goats (they are colored a lot like elk), and me shooting near them and damaging their ears. They even hate when I shoot a .22 rifle around them.


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