# Nigerian dwarfs



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

I am thinking about getting a few Nigerian Dwarfs and showing them. What should I look for in a show quality doe/buck? What are the ADGA requirements?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Have you only ever done boers? I would say NDs are about the same as any other dairy breed, but if you've only ever done meat, that wouldn't be of much help 

Here is a good (though reeaaallly long) thread on diary conformation:

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/critiquing-dairy-goats-2-0.183916/

And here is some info from the ADGA recognized breeds/breed standards page:



> The Nigerian Dwarf is a miniature breed of dairy goat originating in West Africa and developed in the United States. The balanced proportions of the Nigerian Dwarf give it the appearance of the larger breeds of dairy goats, but does stand no more than 22.5″ (57 cm) and bucks no more than 23.5″ (60 cm). Any color or combination of colors is acceptable. The medium length ears are erect and alert. The face is either straight or dished, and the hair is short and fine. (Refer to Appendix "Measuring the Nigerian Dwarf Breed")


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Have you only ever done boers? I would say NDs are about the same as any other dairy breed, but if you've only ever done meat, that wouldn't be of much help
> 
> Here is a good (though reeaaallly long) thread on diary conformation:
> 
> ...


I do have a few ADGA registered lamanchas, so I am sort of understand what to look for, But I am definitely not an expert on it. Other then the height requirement, is there anything else required about them, other then teats?like do they have to have a clean bite like Boers?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Not having a clean bite would be a serious defect. Not sure if it's instant disqualification though.


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

If I find some I like, could I post them on here and get opinions first before I buy? Or is that not allowed?


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

It is allowed
Its never a guarantee but a great start is looking at dam,sire, and paternal grand dam linear apptaisal score


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

This is one I am currently looking at. This will be her third freshening. I attracted the sale ad, it has the information on her. I also attached the buck she is bred to. Thoughts? I would like to eventually get a show quality herd.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

The best thing you can do is find a reputable breeder. It takes a long time to develop an eye and know what you're looking for in a show quality animal. A reputable breeder will know their stock and guide you in the right direction.

As for the requirements to show. Here are ADGA's show rules: http://adga.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2014-15showrules15.pdf


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Amandanicole said:


> This is one I am currently looking at. This will be her third freshening. I attracted the sale ad, it has the information on her. I also attached the buck she is bred to. Thoughts? I would like to eventually get a show quality herd.


I think she looks pretty nice for an ND. Decent udder, though her teats are a bit bulbous. CAE negative is great.


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I think she looks pretty nice for an ND. Decent udder, though her teats are a bit bulbous. CAE negative is great.


Teats are bulbous ?


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

I think she's a pretty nice looking doe
Side view of her udder looks nice the teats point forward a little but that's better than pointing out
Really good body capacity
I'm familiar with some of the animals I. The bucks pedigree
How much is her sale price ?


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> I think she's a pretty nice looking doe
> Side view of her udder looks nice the teats point forward a little but that's better than pointing out
> Really good body capacity
> I'm familiar with some of the animals I. The bucks pedigree
> How much is her sale price ?


$450. Which seams very reasonable for my area considering she is bred.


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Amandanicole said:


> $450. Which seams very reasonable for my area considering she is bred.


Where are you?
Seems reasonable


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> Where are you?
> Seems reasonable


South Georgia. Although I can not find ANY for sale in South Georgia. They are all in (mostly) south Florida or north Georgia. This specific doe is over 4 hours away, but seller has agreed to meet me part way.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> Teats are bulbous ?


Much wider at the base than at the orfice


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Here's an udder picture she sent. She said she was just a few days fresh.


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

My advice, worth price charged : Find a ND breeder in your area who does LA. Contact them and ask them if they would allow you to audit their LA session. Fwiw it's way better than a show, because the appraiser explains what they're seeing or not seeing in each animal in that person's herd, and it makes you familiar with that herd's stock from the perspective of someone who typically has years and years of conformation experience under their belt.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Helpful post, Kath G. How does one find a breeder who does Linear Appraisal?


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I found my first ND through Google. I lucked onto an excellent breeder in my state. Then I just started looking at websites of various breeders I'd see on FB or wherever. I'd find someone well known and respected kinda close by, and pick up the occasional goat. I've driven 17 hours one way on three separate occasions to buy goats from a very well known and respected breeder and I'm glad I did. Good lines are worth it.


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

Second that, what CrazyDogLady said. Also, the relationships you are able to build in doing so, with good breeders, are priceless; if you're working with their lines, they most often want you to do well with them, will offer advice as to what buck would complement them, etc. 

How to find a breeder doing LA: become familiar with pedigrees of top flight breeders close to you and look for LA scores on their goats. That LA tool is the only reason I look at ADGA with envy (we're members of TMGR & MDGA .


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

One other thing about that doe: it looks like there's very little delineation between udder and teat tissue, which is a negative. It also makes it difficult to see her teat size, which, if you plan on hand milking your ND's ever, you might be interested in (ask me how I know, lol). I don't know about delineation heritability, but teat size and placement are both heritable.

That being said, plenty of ND breeders know that they're not going to hand milk or that it's not their focus. Just offering what I can!


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Kath G. said:


> One other thing about that doe: it looks like there's very little delineation between udder and teat tissue, which is a negative. It also makes it difficult to see her teat size, which, if you plan on hand milking your ND's ever, you might be interested in (ask me how I know, lol). I don't know about delineation heritability, but teat size and placement are both heritable.
> 
> That being said, plenty of ND breeders know that they're not going to hand milk or that it's not their focus. Just offering what I can!


She said that this doe was the only one she has in milkat the moment, so she has been milking her by hand.


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

What I *can* and sometimes *do* milk by hand, and what I *want* to milk by hand, are two different things, lolol! If she's in milk currently, ask to visit and ask to milk her. Do the same with other breeders, I know it's a huge time commitment but it hopefully will help in the long run for you to end up with what you want.


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Kath G. said:


> What I *can* and sometimes *do* milk by hand, and what I *want* to milk by hand, are two different things, lolol! If she's in milk currently, ask to visit and ask to milk her. Do the same with other breeders, I know it's a huge time commitment but it hopefully will help in the long run for you to end up with what you want.


We are planning on going to look at her next Sunday. Thank you for all of the comments! 
We figured we can try her out and see if we like a mini breed. Maybe take her or her kids to a show or two and get a better idea of what to look for. We currently have around 25 boers. We are going through almost $600 in grain and hay each month ( majority are ABGA show goats). Most of our does are a good 200-220 pounds. And our buck is only a yearling and is right about 260! It's going to be very different seeing little 50-70 pound full grown goats out there! Lol.


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

Fwiw, don't forget about the "other" mini breeds. After trying ND and then standards, we arrived at perfection... Miniature Nubians! I know that it hasn't always been the case, but there are some top quality Mini Nubians out there. Echo Hills, Green Gables for examples. Extremely efficient, easy to handle and transport, and the personality is fantastic, very people oriented but not noisy or needy. I have some does who peak at over 10#; not bad for 26-1/2" at the withers.

Best of luck!


----------



## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Much wider at the base than at the orfice


Yeah, I knew what it was. And, you do have appoint.
I just don't think's it's much of a fault with this doe.
I've seen much worse on a doe that went best of breed in a show with 80 milker's
Her teats look like they would milk really easy.


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Thoughts on this doe? She's a good price, and only a few hours away.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

It's kind of hard to tell from the photos, but I think I like her more than the other doe.


----------



## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I prefer the first doe, I think. I like her shape a little better, and I think I'd like the udder more if she were uddered up. 

Either would be just fine, though. You'll learn what you like as you go to shows and look at the goats that are winning. Another thing I did at my first show was to chat with people. I made a friend who has been showing and appraising for years. I asked her to show me which were her highest appraising does. 

I had a woman close by who invited me to watch her goats be appraised. She had one who was 8 years old, and appraised at 92 as a dry doe. She had a permanent 93. She and the appraiser both explained to me what were the excellent features on her animals. So worth my time.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't show, and I no longer have any registered purebred NDs, but I know a little about breeding for what you want. Throw this observation out with the baby's bathwater if you like, but this is what I think.

Both these girls seem really nice to me, and excellent prices for what you are getting. If I had the budget, I would choose the doe that I personally liked best, not just in conformation, but personality. Then I would sink everything I could into the very best, most excellent buck, I had available to me. Buying a good buck, leasing a good buck, going the AI route, all great options. But make him Mr Perfect.

If I had the budget, I would get both those girls, but not compromise on that buck.

My 2 cents, and probably worth just that. But it is the buck that makes the herd, not 1 individual doe. And personality counts.


----------

