# How do you deal with your bullies?



## jaycee (Aug 3, 2011)

So little Lucille (6-7 mos) has been in with the big girls now for about 4 days, but they keep bullying her and running her all the way out of the barn. I wasn't too concerned about it when we were having 50 degree days and nights above freezing because eventually they lay down and she sneaks in and munches some hay. But then it started raining and when I got up that morning she was wet so I separated her for the day and put her in the back of the barn as I'm not going to have her forced to stand out in the rain. And now its a blizzard and 20 degrees, so she needs a dry place. 

The other girls are both sets of twins so they always have a partner to console them and provide some backup, but she's all alone. Its not even the boss girls Laverne and Shirley that pick on her, its mostly Rhoda who was the smallest before Lucille put in. I didn't expect her to be the bully, but she spreads out her ears and chases her right out of the barn every time. I guess s--t runs downhill they say. When Rhoda and Mary are bullied they usually at least try to fight back or they just ignore it, get rammed and push right back into the feeder. But Lucille is a big baby, she turns and runs right out of the barn yelling and screaming that shes being picked on...

I know there's probably no solution short of separating her every night, but figured I'd see if anyone else handles it differently when a little one is being bullied especially in bad weather...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

What I did when I introduced a new smaller doe to mine was to have a sort of creep area that the little one could run to, she learned PDQ that she was "safe" there. If you have a way of making a small box inside the main area that she can get under (like a low table) she'll learn to run to it.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I asked a similar question the other day on this forum and have talked to experianced breeders about it too. The consensus is that bullies are a b!tch and you just do what you can because it is normal goat behavior. If it's too bad, seperate them however you have to or let nature take it's course. The "creep" theory sounds like a pretty good one.
What you experianced with the former low goat on the totem pole bullying the new goat is *exactly* my experiance over and over again. Last summer I kept adding new goats to the herd. The "Queen" might take them on right off the bat, or not, but the truely disturbing attacks would always come from the goat that previously was picked on the most. On a side note, this pecking order behavior even will cross species'. Last summer I ran some bottle calves with the goats and the low goat would ram the calves. Later I added another goat and the calf took on the new goat. It is probably possible to use this behavior to your advantage in certain situations, introducing a new animal to take the heat off of another animal.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

I always have at least one extra shelter than I have goats in a pen.....this way everyone ALWAYS has a place to get out of the elements. Sometimes the girls can be so mean to each other!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

The creep idea or add a second house area.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We have this problem too. Our herd queen is as we call her 'queen of mean.' She's super sweet to people and we adore her, but she's so awful to the others. She is okay with her buddy, but she thinks she gets to say who gets to sleep in the sleeping area and who has to stand outside! 
Our sleeping area has a door on each end, so we put pallets up to divide it into 2 sections - she has to walk all the way around the barn in order to get to the other side.

Our eldest doe is the only dehorned goat, she used to be 2nd in command, but about 2 months ago she broke her only scur off which was quite thick and well it was a good defense for her. Well now that she doesn't have it, she won't defend herself and is now bottom of the pecking order with 4 does. Her daughter doesn't hang out with her much at all, as she is our herd queens buddy. And her sister picks on her 

I've seen her stand out in the rain, and avoid going in the barn to eat hay, and it breaks my heart! So I have started catering to her needs. I sometimes open the barn aisle up for her, or lock her in there - we have about a half roll of grass in there so she likes going in there. 
If the weather is lousy, and I have an empty stall - like today, I bed the stall down and put her in there with the hay she likes the best and water. 

If I had a large herd this would be hard to do, but again with only 4 does, I make it work so she is getting out of the weather and getting hay.

If the weather is nice outside, which we've had quite a nice mild winter so far, I've started bringing hay outside and putting it in a few places where it's up off the ground, where they can spread out and eat in peace. When I get ready for evening feed I take the rest of the hay inside and put it in the feeders, but typically I put out enough that it's mostly gone by afternoon. What we do to try and make them happy and keep the peace!

The only time I DON'T have a problem is feeding time. "Queen of mean' knows she has to be civil or she gets kicked out until the other does are nearly finished. One of her bites is like 3 of the other girls bites anyway! I stand over them to make sure they all get to eat peacefully. If I didn't she would run them all out and horde the food to herself.


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## jaycee (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks Liz, thats a good idea about a creep area. I'm going to have to think awhile to figure out how though, because the size difference is not THAT much. Rhoda is actually the same age as Lucy, but she has about 20 lbs on her because she is from a huge nubian dam whereas Lucy is part Toggenburg. She's maybe only a couple inches skinnier and not much shorter (and we all know how goats squeeze). I think it will be hard to devise something that one can get into that the other cant, but Ill try because separating them every night is a pita. The funny thing is when they are eating grain is not even a problem because they are all so focused on themselves... its after all the grain is gone and they get bored that they chase her out...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I've tried a creep feeder for younger goats in the past but it's hard, the girls will do anything and everything to get in it, and if they can't then they'll get stuck trying LOL They are brats...heh


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## Lbricker (Jul 31, 2016)

Hi all- 
I'm looking for some insight! We are new to goats- we got two Pygmy goats today- one is a year old and pregnant, the other is about 4 months old. The older one is being a bit of a bully... I've read everything about butting being normal goat behavior.... She does have horns, as does the younger one(but hers haven't fully come in yet). The older one is butting the younger one all over the place.... They have a pretty big space, they also have two area with hay (so they don't fight over it).... I guess I'm looking for insight on whether it will get better... I'm a little worried about the younger one and whether the older one will let her live through the night, as she already butted her in the eye and caused a nice shiner.. I guess I'm kinda panicking, wondering if I need to sit out with them all night.. 
Any insight would be helpful- as well as any tips for new goat owners! Thanks.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

She will calm down but no telling when :/ if you feel like she is being overly aggressive right now split them up. If they can see each other threw the fence that would be best that way the mean one doesn't forget that she was already showing her who was boss and start over. Is it just the 2 goats you have? If so a night by herself might also make her a little more happy with her younger friend. But bottom line if you worry just split them up and give the weak one a break.


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## Lbricker (Jul 31, 2016)

Yes we just have two! For now 
I don't know that she's being overly aggressive - I've just never had goats- so I suspect some of it is normal... I just read horror stories about aggressive goats breaking another's ribs or killing them- so I guess I'm just a nervous, new mom. We were thinking of putting a cattle panel up to split them up for a few days. 
I'm sure it's also due to the fact that they are in a new environment. 
I have two small chairs in the corner right now so the younger one can go underneath of them for some relief ... Hopefully we can all get a little sleep tonight! 
Thanks for the insight!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is she chasing her down to beat her up or does she just get a bit mean if she comes close? If she's chasing her down then yeah go ahead and split them, if she just seems more grouchy then I would leave them be. I don't mind if I have ones that butt heads or if they get a bit mean if one comes into their space but the head hunting is a little over the top. But I don't think it will take long for the bigger one to realize if she wants a friend she needs to be nicer


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Putting some tennis balls on the meanie's horns with lots of duct tape might give you some piece of mind. Someone posted 2 really funny pictures of her goats wearing the Balls of Shame a few weeks ago. I've also seen where people have taken a short piece of garden hose & put an end on each horn tip & taped it in place securely.


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## Lbricker (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks for the insight! 

She's not chasing her - it's when the younger one comes close to her, she butts. I don't mind the headbutting as much- the belly butting makes me nervous. 
Il definitely be trying the tennis ball idea! Thanks!!


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