# Am I waiting for nothing? Pooch Tests



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Ok, these lovely ladies are yearlings. I'm just second guessing a lot. The first should be due now, unless she was bred later on and I'm fairly certain I didn't put her back in with the buck at all (although I lost my sheet for my later breedings so its possible I'm just forgetting it.)

If she isn't due now, she would likely be due on the next cycle and she has pretty regular 17-21 day cycles.










She has a very slightly pouch. No real udder coming in, just a floppy little handful. I wouldn't think she would have even that if she was not bred but who knows.

The second doe I bought bred. She was supposed to be covered 2/21, so day 145 would be July 15. No pouch forming but the skin is loose where her udder should be (and was tight when I got her) and one of the teats seems to have gotten bigger than the other. I got her three weeks after she was covered just in case she came back in during that time. It seemed to me like she had some discharge when I picked her up so I put her in with buck just in case. I didn't see him cover her but they were together a week...so her day 145 could be more around August 6 to mid August.


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If these are too small or grainy let me know and I will try and get some with a real camera and not a camera phone. Tricky youngsters...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

First pic is too close for me to get an accurate check..2nd doe is bred but I'd say that she was likely covered for the later date


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I told photo bucket to shrink it but for some reason it takes a year and a day for those changes to reflect on some links but not on others. Tired of PB sometimes but hey, its free hosting right?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Try this one:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Better pic...I don't think she is bred, she doesn't have the fluffy look in the skin the way the other does.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Liz, that was my instinct from looking at her lady parts...but I have the same issue a ton of us here have...just not being able to figure out the pooch test with any accuracy.

The first doe (Winry) has a greater distance between her um...bum and her lady parts. I have no idea if that is just her conformation or if its part of the elongation that should be visible in a positive pooch test? And then I wonder if her parts just look softer because of the light color versus the dark. It seems like all my light skinned girls have softer looking skin on their back-sides. 

Also, the second doe (Fae), her tip is flat, pointing down, where-as Winry's still appears to tilt up slightly. How much do you give over to natural variations in conformation and how much is most common to pregnancy? Fae does have a pouch of an udder and has increased body depth. I'm actually hoping she isn't bred at this point because I would love her depth of body to be attributed to her how she is going to mature over the next year! I put her in with my new buck and am monitoring her. It will answer my question if she comes in for him, and although I'm not always keen on winter kids it will speed up the process that tells me how her udder is going to look! Which will tell me whether or not she is a keeper.

Any other opinions? In fact, anyone have any little tips and tricks they have learned from their own pooch tests? I've heard the vague overview and I know that getting detailed might be nasty as far as descriptions go, but its useful. I've heard that the girl parts should be more wrinkly for pregnant, and the opposite...that they should look soft, for pregnant. Sometimes its conflicting.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I say no to the first and probably no to the second as well. :shrug: I'm no expert at these pooch tests though.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Ha ha...neither am I. Just when I think "AHA! I totally have it!" I seem to regress completely, scratch my head and doubt I was doing anything but wildly guessing to begin with..........................and stare at a goat's butt repeatedly for frightening lengths of time while my neighbor's likely peek at me out their windows and point. Oh the whispered rumors that must abound. Between my constant goat-butt staring and that time I followed my mare around her paddock at feeding time to collect her urine in a bucket (the time I decided to give a WeeFoal a field test), they must think I'm some sort of weird animal pervert.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Well, an answer on each! Fae allowed Denzil to cover her twice today that I saw, both successful. I'm disappointed I won't get to see how she freshens for awhile yet, but happy that her increasing body depth is all her and not a preggy belly. Very nice!

And I felt a hard lump way back in Winry's abdomen beneath the udder that seemed to move a bit. No kicking yet, but movement. I'm still going with Liz, that she took later. Just needed someone to see what I thought I was seeing.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I feel your pain! I can't "get" the pooch thing. I usually just watch for udder development and or increasing girth. I'm going to have my first fall births this year. But, I still have a few months to go.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

I felt with the same issue the last few weeks. So frusterating. I just keep telling myself this is part of learning!


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## meluvgoats (Apr 19, 2012)

I agree with the rest :thumb: Hope fully you get some wonderful kids!!!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I forgot about this thread. Both ended up open. I was almost sure the first one was bred because she was gaining body depth pretty rapidly and still has a handful of udder there. But nope...I guess it just means that she is going to mature with some nice depth of body and I HOPE it also means that when she finally does freshen her udder is going to have some nice capacity. She is hopefully bred to my new buck for December kiddos. The other girl is waiting on a date from a leased buck this fall.


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

One thing that was nver really address in this thread that I am interested in is a detailed explanation of the pouch test.

What changes are you looking for? swelling? lengthening? pointing up or down?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

This is a description of the changes you will see on a settled doe: 
When a doe is open, her anus us tucked very nicely way up under the top of
her tail. Her vulva is very small and smooth. When she first gets bred,
her vulva is usually a bit swollen and red, but that disappears after a
week.
If she took, her vulva doesn't go back to that small smooth little triangle
of flesh, but is longer, more like a tear drop in shape. The farther along
she gets the longer and eventually more wrinkled looking her vulva gets.
Her anus starts "drooping" below her tail head and becomes more and more
visible.
When she is ready to kid and is laying down, the vulva is really BIG and
poochy.
So if you look at your open does compared to the ones bred, you will soon
see what I'm talking about. Even as early as 21 days past breeding the
vulva changes it's size and structure.
That's the Rodney Smith, totally self made, pooch test that has withstood
many years of testing and verifying its accuracy!


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## Mrndly (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks Liz that was very helpful


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

I own Fae now (goat #1) and have been wondering if she's pregnant or not. THis photo is from today. Experts, what is your opinion?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I think I see a difference when compared to the first photo in this thread. She should be on day 150 around the 15th-16th of December...I believe. That is when her dam will be on 150 and they both came into heat the same days, bred by the same buck. Can you feel any udder development? Usually in a FF they start a bit early, but not necessarily. Last year one of my FF went easy on me and started bagging noticeably almost two months in advance, so I knew for quite some time she was a definite yes. You could also try and feel for fetal movement at this point right in front of the udder on the underside of her belly. Easiest for me is when they are eating grain, especially if you have a milk stand to keep them from dancing. Sometimes if I do a few gentle bounces I can get a kid to move a bit...although if she were carrying a single it might be even harder to feel.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

This link has the explanation of the pooch test that Liz posted, as well as pictures - I found it helpful. http://www.americanfaintinggoat.com/?page_id=1277


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