# Kid Milk Replacer; What's bad about it?



## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

Good, now that I have your attention, I want y'all to school me, if that's cool with you. (Yes, I'm doing my own research too, but I like the wisdom you folks have!)

I've heard in the wind that milk replacer lines the belly and causes bloat. Even packaging for formula warns to be wary of bloating. With that heavy in my mind, I keep my kids on a very regular and strict diet when it comes to their formula. They currently get _just_ over a cup three times a day; first thing in the morning, after lunch, and between 10 and 11 PM at night. I've been watching their feces and they are definitely healthy and aren't showing any physical signs of ailment - but maybe that's because I am trying my best to be wary.

Belle, my premature kid, is on real goat milk that I picked up from a nearby dairy. She started on the replacer, but after having constipation followed by scours, I started a thread on here and I was told to get REAL milk, so I did. Because of her prior issues, I am scared to put her back on formula. Ma thinks I should wean her back to formula, but I'll probably just call my new dairy goat breeding friend and see if we can arrange for her to get goats milk until she's at least older, if I ever put her back on it at all.

SO, now that I've rambled on for a minute about what I'm feeding, I must ask what *your* experiences with milk replacer are. I am now 4 kids in, 3 raised on formula (one successfully raised and weaned, two I have currently are one month old). And of course, *what are some key signs of bloat, besides a swollen belly?* Just because I've done well so far doesn't mean I'm not terrified of the risk. I am, but I also know what I have the best access to. Which is formula. (Yikes?)


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm sorry, I can't speak to replacers - but I have had a bottle baby on goat milk with kefir, and then switched him to cow milk with kefir. He has done splendid on these. I'm a believer in using kefir! And it's SO easy to make - easier than going to the store for buttermilk and evap. milk.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

Every animal I have tried to give milk replacer to did not do well. Nothing beats mom's milk. Will never use replacer again.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I have had good luck, over the years, with Land O' Lakes brand "Does Match". I raised 10 kids completely on it last year, bottle fed a few buck kids until I sold them. All the does that I raised are part of my current herd, all are pregnant and due between April and June. Oh, and they are all Alpines! (If that matters. :laugh 

Of all the replacers, it seems to be the best out there, right now.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I know lots of people who use replacer and do fine on it. Not nearly as good as goats milk of course. Ive used it a bit over the years. 2 years ago we sold 20 milking does and had to get replacer to cover the need. If I have to use it, I like to mix it 50/50 with goats milk. I never mix it as suggested on the label when I do mix it. I do about 2/3s of what they say.


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I have had trouble with replacements in the past. Now if I don't have goat milk I mix 50/50 cow milk and replacer. If the act full at the next feeding and I haven't seen poo, then I give an enema. So far this works for me when needed. Thankfully this year my bottle babies are getting goats milk since I have so many mommas right now.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

I raised my herd of five does and two bucks on Does Match. All were bottle babies and are in excellent health and grew fine. Most coming two this spring and expecting babies soon. No tummy trouble as long as you don't let the little piggies overeat.That said ,if clean goats milk is available I would use it instead. It's a perfect,natural, match for them!


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I have had good results with calf milk replacer that is 100% MILK, I think the bad results come with a cheaper replacer that contains soy, goats can't have soy. Mine get straight replacer sometimes and straight goat milk others, I just give what I have and free feed in a bucket system, they never gorge because they are never that hungry, maybe that helps. Two years doing it this way and no bloated or sickly kids, I don't have a large amount of kids, usually 5 - 10 a year, so take my good luck with a grain of salt.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I'd use cow's milk over replacer.....if you can get goats milk, why wouldn't you use that?


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

One problem with replacers is that you have measure carefully - getting too much powder can cause dehydration - I agree that the ones with dried milk vs soy products seem to set on tummies -


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

I would say the most important thing to remember about milk replacers is that not all are created equal. The replacers that are not species specific are not recommend for goat kids. And cheaper is definitely not better when it comes to replacers.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

I've definitely noticed a difference between the replacers. They have different content. Manna Pro is what I usually use, but my parents picked up a 22 pound bag of Dumor last time they shopped for me. Luckily, we have sense enough to get goat specific.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lots of good answers...I had three bottle bucks in my early goat years...had them on replacer...all three got very ill...almost lost them...I was talked through the whole process I give here many time..off milk...replace with electros, give cd antitoxin..then switch to whole cows milk...all three boys mended and went on to be happy herd breeders lol..thats my personal experience...as Green Mountain said, not all replacers are made equally...there are better ones, and they cost..so many just buy the cheap stuff or even worse, the all species replacer! Each breed has a need and should be met, you cant for ex feed cow replacer to sheep!!...plus if you read the ingredients is a lot of garbage. 
Measuring is important...amount fed is important..and as you already do, watching for signs of illness...


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

The replacer I used was land o lakes does match. I was careful when measuring too. But like I said my goats were not healthy and probably the moms were not either. My calf I tried bottling was a premie. Weighed 20 pound when he should have been at least 80.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

BrokenArrowRanch said:


> The replacer I used was land o lakes does match. I was careful when measuring too. But like I said my goats were not healthy and probably the moms were not either. My calf I tried bottling was a premie. Weighed 20 pound when he should have been at least 80.


I do think their health can have an affect on how well they receive formula. Miss Belle, my premie, did not pass her bowel movements well at all until I medicated her and switched to real goat milk. My healthier kids all do well on it (so far). Waldo had issues with standing and leg weakness, but was able to digest properly. Belle and her sister got constipated then had a bad case of scours immediately after on the formula. I don't know if Belle would be okay on formula now, but I'm able to keep her on the good stuff, so I'm not concerned with switching her.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I have used Land O'Lakes milk replacer for kids (or for lambs if needed) and never had a problem. I am careful to be very clean -bottles, mixing formula etc and to never overfeed. Goats milk is best but often don't have it when needed. I also only feed warmed milk. I am feeding a lamb right now and she is so very healthy. Growing like a weed on lamb replacer. I would never use another brand because I have never had a problem with L O'Lake.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

If you can get goat's milk, use it! Switching her back to replacer will probably just restart the issues..goat milk is always the best choice, or cow's milk, then replacer (unless you use sheep or horse milk or something haha ) 

Land O Lakes seems to be the safest replacer around...


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## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

canyontrailgoats said:


> If you can get goat's milk, use it! Switching her back to replacer will probably just restart the issues..


That's what I figured. Ma insisted I switch her back, but there's no reason for me to when the dairy goat lady is willing to help me and her out. She's doing so well now, I don't wanna mess that up!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I've had good success on the Advantage replacer, until today... My oberhasli bottle boys will not touch the stuff.. I'm thinking that they changed something on the formula, because they wouldn't eat, I even mixed it with regular goats milk... First time I've had trouble, so since I have an abundance of goats milk they will remain on that... I've bottle fed 7 kids not including these boys.. The only reason why we were switching is my mom wants to help feed the little stinkers, and it's just easier for her.., but will not force it on them..


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## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

janeen128 said:


> I've had good success on the Advantage replacer, until today... My oberhasli bottle boys will not touch the stuff.. I'm thinking that they changed something on the formula, because they wouldn't eat, I even mixed it with regular goats milk... First time I've had trouble, so since I have an abundance of goats milk they will remain on that... I've bottle fed 7 kids not including these boys.. The only reason why we were switching is my mom wants to help feed the little stinkers, and it's just easier for her.., but will not force it on them..


I have used it and done a side-by-side bag comparison with it and the other two I've tried. It doesn't have as high a content of stuff as Manna Pro or Dumor formula, which I found very interesting.


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

I raised my Alpine boys almost entirely on Manna Pro's all species formula since I had no way to get goat's milk once the supply that the breeder gave me ran out. They grew like weeds and never had a problem with scours or constipation or anything, but they were super-healthy babies when I got them and I always followed the breeder's instructions very carefully.
He said to never NEVER change their diet suddenly; instead, to always do it one fourth at a time.
He sent me home with some goat's milk and some frozen colustrum, so a 50/50 mix of that was their first few feedings. They didn't know how to drink from a bottle at first so I figured they should get the really good stuff while they were still getting short rations.
Once they figured out the bottle they started going through the goat's milk in a hurry, so their next feedings were 25% Manna Pro, then 50%, then 75%, then 100% because the goat's milk was gone.

At first I used MP's Kid Milk Replacer but our TSC was always out of it so I gradually switched them to the all species variety, again doing it 25% at a time.
Whatever they got was always warmed to about 95 - 100 degrees.

They never got as much formula as they thought they should have but they still did fine.
As I recall, they got 4oz, 4 times a day at first, but that quickly became 6oz, and then 8 oz 3 times a day, then 10oz, then 12oz, and finally 16oz 3 times a day. When they were about 8 weeks old I cut them back to 2 feedings a day. (They had discovered the blackberries by this time and were eating weeds like little champs!)
At around 10 weeks they were cut back to one feeding a day and that stayed the plan until our last bag of formula ran out. 

They grew well and they've never been sick.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

I've had good luck with both calves and kids on replacer. I always use non-medicated, non-soy replacer, Dumor for the calves and MannaPro Uni-Milk for the kids.

Obviously, real milk is always better, but if you don't have any, it is possible to raise healthy babies on replacer. Just be sure to measure carefully and don't overfeed them.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I use Land O Lakes Doe's Match and never have problems. The kids grow normally, no diarrhea, no bloat. They do very well on it. 

I've also raised an orphan foal on Land O Lakes Mare's Match and he did excellent. Never got sick, no diarrhea, no issues whatsoever...which is pretty uncommon for orphan foals.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> I use Land O Lakes Doe's Match and never have problems. The kids grow normally, no diarrhea, no bloat. They do very well on it.
> 
> I've also raised an orphan foal on Land O Lakes Mare's Match and he did excellent. Never got sick, no diarrhea, no issues whatsoever...which is pretty uncommon for orphan foals.


I need to find who sells that here... I would like to try it;-)


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## Ziegen (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm not experienced - only have two kids but they were both bottle raised. One was doing fine one the replacer and one was getting scours and a bit weak. Switched both to whole cows milk and that fixed it up right away. 
However, I'm not sure what brand it was and likely could have been low quality. I'm sure some replacers are a lot better than others. Either way, I would just do cows milk again unless I could find a good reason not to.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2014)

Ziegen said:


> I'm not experienced - only have two kids but they were both bottle raised. One was doing fine one the replacer and one was getting scours and a bit weak. Switched both to whole cows milk and that fixed it up right away.
> However, I'm not sure what brand it was and likely could have been low quality. I'm sure some replacers are a lot better than others. Either way, I would just do cows milk again unless I could find a good reason not to.


It's quite possible. Seems the more money you spend, the better you're likely to get.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

janeen128 said:


> I need to find who sells that here... I would like to try it;-)


I get it from Coastal. Not sure if you have one near you.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> I get it from Coastal. Not sure if you have one near you.


Coastal Farm & Ranch? That's usually where I go, but they have never carried the does match, I'll call around though.. Thanks!!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Yep, that's it! The Yakima one carries a lot of goat products. You might ask them if they could order it for you.


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## Natalia Richards (Sep 29, 2020)

Very interesting answers! First time bottle feeding a premie ND kid. 
So to understand why so many farmers/breeders do not use the kid replacer milk is 
because by itself it can cause scours, constipation, boating, etc. All bad for a baby. 

Also, from what some of you wrote, I should never let Sweetpea drink to being complete packed full of the milk. What I mean is that first thing in the morning when she is most hungry she will drink almost 5 ounces of her milk. (She is only 11 days old.) But, during the day, she usually drinks only around three ounces to maybe almost four ounces of milk? How much at her age is she supposed to be dringking and how often?
She is a premie and almost died at two days born. Mother rejected her and at the beggining I had to feed her with a syringe and she was only drinking 1/2 an ounce of the mother's milk. 

So at this point, the mother is not producing enough milk. So I bought the milk replacer and mixing it 50/50 with the mothers mild. But, since Sweetpea intake is increasing, I am always, borderline running out of mother's milk. So my question is:
If I get whole cow milk and mix it with the goat mild and some of the replacer to stretch it. Will that be ok? Or maybe I should stick to just mixing the replacer and cow's milk together, slowly, and whenever I get the mother's milk feed her milk?

Ok! This is very confusing. She has been very sick and doing much better now, I do not want to do something that will mess her up. Help!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Please don't use the replacer at all. The additives in it have killed kids. It doesn't always but once a kid starts going downhill from replacer, it is almost impossible to bring them back. The red top whole milk from the grocery store is all you need. Put a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day. You don't want a kid bloated up from the bottle.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

This may be controversial, but, I mixed goat milk with Does Match milk replacer. Approximately 50-50. But, some days it was a bit different, depending on 
how much extra goat milk I had. As long as you mix the replacer correctly, shake it up each time you use it and your kid is doing well, keep doing what you are 
doing. You can use the replacer to stretch it, as long as the baby is used to replacer. Any diarrhea, bloating etc. Back off the replacer. (give a feeding or 2 of electrolytes
to re balance the goat's system). I agree with ksalvagno, the grocery store red top cows milk is better- but for me, that wasn't an option. If you can go the cows milk route, your baby
probably will do better. (just do electralytes first a few feeding, then switch). 

I did successfully bottle feed 30 this year- but- again- what works for me may not work for others. Cows milk is usually better than milk replacer.......


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with Karen. Especially when baby is already had a rough start. Whole cows milk never has had issue when fed proper amount..replacer has offered many stories of illness and death. I won't chance which baby can and can not handle it. When switching, mix whole cows milk with moms milk. After 24 hours offer the 100% whole cows milk. As for how much, weigh her and multiply that by 16 to see how much she weighs in oz. Then multiply that by 10% to see how much she needs per day. Divide into 3-4 bottles A day. Now with her drinking from mom, it's important to watch her tummy. You want a flat but firm tumny..not poochy and not sunken in. Adjust amount to meet that goal. Babies will guilt you to feed too much..avoid complications by staying strong. 

Best wishes


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Just to say, I have been feeding milk replacer to my bottle kids for years. Sometimes it's mixed with goat milk, some times it's straight. Never had a problem, I just make sure it contains milk products. Personally, I use Sav a Kid replacer. My kids get offered a 20 ounce bottle from a week of age, 4 times a day, to drink as much as they want. My kids are growthy, healthy and have great weight gains. No bloat, no scours, and they stay on the replacer or replacer x goat milk mix until sold or weaned in the late fall.

Everyone does things a bit differently. I've been doing it this way for 38 years. When I first started out with goats way back when, this is how they were raised. The kids I have seen that were raised using the 10% of their total weight in milk were half the size of mine at the same age. To each, their own.


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## Natalia Richards (Sep 29, 2020)

Hi! Ok. So I started Sweetpea today on goats milk and regular whole milk mixed 50/50. No more replacer. Since this morning. Before, she was getting the replacer mixed with whatever goats milk I could get from her mom but mom was not giving enough milk. So we bought some goats milk at the supermarket. 
And she loves it. 50/50 The problem now is she is not pooping enough! Just once a day and the last 24 she hasn’t yet! 
So what is the problem now? I have olive oil and canola oil. Should I give her some to help move things along? She doesn’t seem bloated or listless or uncomfortable. She is always hungry. I also have prunes. Should I boil some and mix with her milk. Help. Thank you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Are you feeding her the proper amount per her weight? Too little or too much can cause constipation. Sometimes they just need an adjustment period. Be sure to add a punch of baking soda to first bottle and probiotics in her last bottle


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## Natalia Richards (Sep 29, 2020)

According to your entry I should give her a pinch of baking soda with the first morning bottle and probiotics in her last. I know what a pinch is so no problem there. But, about the probiotics. Probiotics are probiotics. Right? Whether for birds or mammals. I ask because I have probiotics power I ordered for my chickens. The bottle does not say anything about chickens or any other animals. Only that it’s not for human consumption. Instructions say "mix 2-3 teaspoons per gallon of water on first day and follow by 1 teaspoon afterward as needed."

So how much of the probiotics should I give her at four pounds and drinking between 3-4 ounces of the milk? Half a teaspoon, 1/4 of a t.? Another pinch? I am sorry, but when it comes to ruminants I am very careful in what I give them, especially so small because I know their stomachs are very sensitive and the flora of their tummies also. But, I do not have to tell you this I just read your information. You wrote this book. "Goat Health; A Guide for General Care and Emergencies"  Congratulations and thank you for your help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would get goat specific probiotics. In the mean time..a plain Greek yogurt can stand in place. I would give 1/2 teaspoon yogurt in her PM bottle. With probiotics there should be a scoop in there but 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon should be ok. 
I saw a study on how beneficial probiotics are for pre- rumenants. 

Thank you for the congrats 😁


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