# To disbud or not disbud a Boer, This is my question.



## ruedyranch

I have a small herd of Boer does and this summer we will by purchasing our own buck. This year we "borrowed" a buck from the breeder we bought our does from. My question is this...I just found out that the county I live in and my children belong to 4H in has just passed a new rule that in order to show meat goats in this county they must be disbudded. To my knowledge we are the only county within the area to imply this rule. The person who sits on the board and helped to pass this is of course a dairy goat breeder so she thinks everything should be polled. I'm a little worried as to how this will effect my does in other Boer shows. We also would like to market our goats to the large Muslim community in our area and the animals must be left intact in order to do so. Our market bucks are left in tact so are not eligible for the kids to show in 4H (plus they have extended the weight limit for wethers, making them too large at market time to be of any value) My kids are really looking forward to showing but we would like to start a herd impovement program on our farm and part of the show process is being judged on horn conformation is it not? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. We are new to the goat world but I have done my homework. I live in Minnesota so there is not a huge population of market meat goats in this area. Most goat owners it seems have dairy breeds. This kind of limits our ability to show in Boer sanctioned shows without having to travel long distances. Looking forward to hearing your input! Thanks! onder:


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## Desert Viking Ranch

It is my personal opinion that no goats should be disbudded. Goats do not naturally come without horns (polling is a genetic defect) and mother nature gave goats horns for a reason. The only reason I have ever heard for disbudding goats was for ease of handling by humans (to avoid injury to handlers, getting horns stuck in fences, etc). We have created these situations and I just don't feel right "manipulating" goats for our benefit. I take the extra time and money to provide a safe environment as best I can and if I get injured from a goat with horns I don't blame the goat.

If the only reasons for disbudding are for looks in a show arena I REALLY disagree with it.

Just my two cents...I have a disbudded Nubian that I love, she came that way from the previous owner.


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## SDK

if the boers are for show then i would not dehorn.. unless they are market wethers.

I have been gored by goats several times, and i've had some break horns.. and IMO its in the goats best interests to be dehorned when they are in close contact with people. but the boers had to have their horns for the showring.


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## toth boer goats

I myself... love the horns on a boer....I will not dehorn...even if someone asks me to do it......God made them as a radiator.... to keep them cool in the summer and warm in the winter..... My boers have never been mean to children....also here in California.... children show Does and have no issues...with the horns...
That isn't right ....that your 4h ...wants to dehorn everything ...quite sad actually....  If you look at the standards of Associations and big sanctioned shows ...boers horns are included.... I don't know....to each his own...if you want to dehorn.... it is up to you..... but I prefer not to... :wink: :thumb:


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## ()relics

Show wethers should always be dehorned,especially if they will be shown by youngsters, if for no other reason than for the safety of the child. A 75# wether without horns can be hard enough for a child to show...With horns he can be nearly impossible, let alone dangerous.


> The person who sits on the board and helped to pass this is of course a dairy goat breeder so she thinks everything should be polled


Does this person understand that 98% of boer goats are not Polled? Polled would be an animal that naturally doesn't have horns.


> I just found out that the county I live in and my children belong to 4H in has just passed a new rule that in order to show meat goats in this county they must be disbudded. To my knowledge we are the only county within the area to imply this rule.


Have you looked at your state fair rules? Most states are going to the dehorned wether requirement, for safety and because they are following the boer registries lead. This should only apply to wethers not breeding animals, does/doelings should be allowed to have horns. Intact bucks are NOT allowed by most states although they are the Main Event at sanctioned shows...Horn conformation(?) has little to do with anything except general appearence...Horn set, the way the horns come out of the head, does matter but very little in a show ring and only in breeding animals....again at a sanctioned show you would only ever see dehorned wethers....So check your state fair rule book, if you find discrepancies you could question your local leaders....But you will find that dehorned wethers are much safer for your kids to show, unless you think a horn in the neck sounds fun.


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## GoatGirlMO

We disbud our wethers simply because they may end up as pets or show wethers. Our market for our excess wethers in the fall does not care if they are disbudded. 

We never disbud does or bucks. 

My story, really quickly: Our fair also had a rule stating that they must be disbudded. I told them that I had Boers and my adult does were not disbudded. I showed them state fair rules, which state that ABGA rules go. So I showed them ABGA rules and the part about a horned goat taking precedence over a non-horned goat, all other things being equal.

They told me I had no business showing "State fair goats" or registered goats at a county fair. But then they found out my sister, who is in 4-H, purchased her goats herself and they couldn't discriminate against her because her goats were registered... they finally let her in, but she had to tape or tip the horns. 

It was a nice compromise, so I would see if they will let you do that. We don't tip, we always tape. 

By the way, they finally let me show, too, although it was very uncomfortable. But this year we have several new exhibitors, and most have registered goats... should be fun! The only thing they've done now that they will absolutely not budge on is require that ALL goats be clipped ALL over to 3/8 inch or less... legs and everything. So the goats I take to the state fair still don't get to go to county... state is less than three weeks away and I can't take baldy goats there!!


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## nutmegfarm

Most of my 4Her's keep their boer show does with their horns, but our market wethers must be dehorned. I think its your personal choice though. :thumb:


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## sweetgoats

()relics said:


> Show wethers should always be dehorned,especially if they will be shown by youngsters, if for no other reason than for the safety of the child. A 75# wether without horns can be hard enough for a child to show...With horns he can be nearly impossible, let alone dangerous.


 All my goats have horns and they HAVE to have horns to be shown. I think it is all in how you teach the kids to be with the goats and the horns. Yes a safety thing but we start right off the bat and tell the kids to RESPECT the horns, and teach them how to work with the goats with the horns.

In our County they HAVE to be dehorned to be shown, they can not come back as a scurs either any larger then a quarter.

I personally love horns on the goats.


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## toth boer goats

> The person who sits on the board and helped to pass this is of course a dairy goat breeder so she thinks everything should be polled. I'm a little worried as to how this will effect my does in other Boer shows.


 Oh my...yep... the person would prefer no horns...as dairy breeds are more likely to be hornless...that is sad ....the person is being unfair to the boer goat industry.....IMO ... :doh:

Is 4h there ...trying to dehorn all boers ...Bucks..Does too?

If so....That will definitely ruin it later... for the big shows or other open type shows...... ..Also something to think about.......Your children Later.. will be able to show your goats with horns... in a sanctioned or other type show...when they are older...that does...allow the horns.....kids( human) do grow up fast...... not sure how old they have to be.....?
How old are your kids...?



> We also would like to market our goats to the large Muslim community in our area and the animals must be left intact in order to do so.


I have sold to the Muslims before and you are correct ...they do want them intact.... :wink:



> Most goat owners it seems have dairy breeds. This kind of limits our ability to show in Boer sanctioned shows without having to travel long distances. Looking forward to hearing your input! Thanks! onder:


 Yeah... but... if you raise champion animals....there will be more getting into the boers...and buying them from you....also later ...they may get sanctioned shows in your area as the industry grows....... as it has... around other area's... :wink:


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## Dover Farms

I don't know if the no horns/scurs rule is so much for the exhibitor, because you're right. If you are going to raise Boers or any other breed that requires their horns to be left on, you should learn how to handle them. But what about the spectators? You know people don't always use common sense. If somebody gets hurt while at the fair, even if it was their own fault, who are they going to blame? The fairgrounds. I think they are more so covering their own butts. My fair also has those rules. No bucks or animals with horns/scurs are permitted on the fairgrounds.

ruedyranch,
You shouldn't have to disbud/dehorn all of your stock. I would just disbud the market wethers that will be going to the fair.


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## toth boer goats

Well...ruedyranch....you have alot of views both ways about horns LOL...it is kinda.... a heated type argument... and this debate can go on and on.... :laugh: as all Breeders ....have their own preferences and what they do with them... as to.... if the horns stay or go..........it is up to what.... you are wanting to do with your boers... :wink: 

I myself ....wouldn't dehorn anything like Does or Bucks.....but yet again... it is up to you..... now ..the ball is in your court....... :thumb: :hug:


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## jodief100

Ohio requires all 4-H goats to be disbudded. In Kentucky it varies by county but most of them are going to requiring it. 

I disbud any January/February born kids that may be sold as 4-H kids and leave the rest with horns. 

I also think it is a liability thing for the 4-H and the fair.


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## ruedyranch

Thanks for all the great input. Our county is requiring that ALL goats (does and wethers) are disbudded. We had already made the decision not to show wethers to avoid disbudding or banding. We gave it some thought and have decided to join 4H in another county. Our county will not budge on this rule. I have dairy and Boer and I do see the need to disbud my Saanens. They are much more aggressive than the boer goats. They stand on their hind legs and charge at eachother. My boer does are cupcakes. The conformation of dairy horns are also very different. They stick straight up and can definately be hazardous. I've only had a problem with our leased boer buck. I was carrying a grain bucket and he was pretty excited so his head rubbed against my leg and left a pretty good bruise. We have picked out a buck and are spending a small fortune on him and a couple girls so we've decided that this is route we'll take. I don't particularly enjoy the idea of disbudding either. Thanks for the great advice.


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## toth boer goats

You are so very welcome.... smart move ....going to another county.... :wink: 

I can understand removing the straight up horns ...especially if ....they are aggressive..... that is definitely dangerous....to people and to other animals... Good luck with you goaties and showing... :wink: :thumb: :hug: 

.


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## Dodge 'Em

Here in Robertson County, Tn they are supposed to be disbudded, but if not, they are supposed to have a protective covering over the tip (tennis balls or bubble wrap). No one pays it any attention, though. I think its just stupid. They can stomp your toes off, are they going to want them dishooved next? LOL And if you show that same goat in a sanctioned Boer show, it counts against you if they have no horns.


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## toth boer goats

At least you have the option of dehorning or not that is a plus.... and I agree man those hooves hurt when they have weight behind it....I know...it's like ..what's next.... :doh:



> And if you show that same goat in a sanctioned Boer show, it counts against you if they have no horns.


 we can't win for losing.... :help:


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## newmama30+

I just found this thread and am glad to hear that Im not the only person in MN that is unhappy about having to disbud my kids 4-H withers. Wherer are you located at? We are in SW MN


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## myfainters

OK...so most of this thread is all for horns...and to each their own on that one but here is the *reason* why in CA the disbudding market wethers rule came into place. It is because a child (4-H member) was showing his goat (horned) as he was placing feet the goat moved his head...not aggressively just moved and his horn penetrated the childs eye....the kid LOST HIS EYE.... so yes, horns are beautiful, yes...that is how GOD made them (although guess what GOD also made goats polled...naturally without horns) I have to say God made my children beautiful and its my responsibility as a mother to keep my children safe in any way necessary. So yep...every goat here is disbudded...and they are all happier for it. We have 1 goat here on the property with horns....she has to be pulled out of the fence where she is stuck pretty much daily....that is when she hasn't gotten herself stuck in the hay feeder. :doh: Disbudding is a safety precaution... for both humans and the herd. Safety in my household is a must...accidents happen so whatever I can do to prevent an accident gets done over here. I raise meat goats... I can tell the amount of meat on my goats body just fine without having to look at their horns. :scratch: last time I checked...they don't HAVE meat in their horns????? :ROFL: :slapfloor: :ROFL: :slapfloor: :idea: :shrug:


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## RPC

In my county no meat goats have to be disbudded even the wethers can have horns. I am not going to lie I love my boers but the main reason we have boers is so I don't have to disbud anyone. I know all of you for the most part do it but it gives me a weak stomach. I don't really know why but it does. Taylor's first year showing goats we had some togg x nubian kids and had them disbudded and it was painful to watch so I told the kids after that from now on we they were only showing boers. I am really happy with my choice and I think they are too.


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## toth boer goats

> In my county no meat goats have to be disbudded even the wethers can have horns. I am not going to lie I love my boers but the main reason we have boers is so I don't have to disbud anyone. I know all of you for the most part do it but it gives me a weak stomach. I don't really know why but it does. Taylor's first year showing goats we had some togg x nubian kids and had them disbudded and it was painful to watch so I told the kids after that from now on we they were only showing boers. I am really happy with my choice and I think they are too.


 I have to agree with you... :hi5: I love their horns and they are a radiator ...to keep them cool in the summer and warm in the winter..... :wink:

There are some people ...that want to show them in certain shows...and must abide by the rules to do so..... that is their decision....
or ..if they feel safer not having them...I respect that....but ...for me ..I love those horns on the boers.....

Kids and adults... need to always be aware of them...and take great caution in what they are doing.... yes... accidents do happen but... accidents can happen even with dehorned goats...if they are big in size .. they can over power you as well.... even some of the smaller goats without horns ..can hurt a small child under certain circumstances.... 

Another thing is...I went to a person years ago ..that only had dehorned goats only.....they whhere the boers....I was selling to someone... a whether and needed to use her scale... to get a weight on him..... Get this....she grabbed him "by the horns" :ROFL: and pulled him onto the scale.... that was so funny.....  ....because she doesn't believe in horns....but that was the first thing she did... :laugh: Go figure... :greengrin:

For the goats that stick their heads through the fence... I use to put a dunce hat on them.....until I got an electric fence...now I don't have any issues... :wink:


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