# Underweight and frustrated - FECAL RESULTS!!



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I know I've been posting a lot about issues concerning my herd, but I am just at a loss.
My does look really thin, and it bothers me greatly. 
I am not sure if it's truly a parasite problem or dietary.
We've wormed orally after kidding and about 10 days later with the 4 nursing does. 
We 'thought' we saw tapeworm segements in poo over a week ago, but it was actually beet pulp :GAAH: I'd never seen wet beet pulp before since we feed it dry....once I saw it wet...I ruled out tapes...since this happened the day after I started adding the beet pulp.

3 goats were found to have lice. which I posted about and we've taken care of them.
They were on my buck, pregnant doe and a nursing doe. 
My husband did try to underfeed the buck and preggo doe, not on purpose but because he thought they were getting enough. I try to explain the hay doesn't have a lot of nutritional value....but he thinks food is food...
We have to fill up their hay feeders daily since the rolls we bought are too big to bring through the gate for free choice! BUT they do have a roll of so/so grass hay they can get too, just they pick through it more than they do the bigger rolls...

My feeding routine is...
4 nursing does get fed 2x a day: I have a feed tub about 1 1/2 gallons that I fill 3/4 full with 16% medicated grain, then add a little BOSS and Beet Pulp. It's divided with the youngest doe getting slightly more than the others - plus our 3mo old doeling gets some as she eats with her mama. BTW, ALL the does are fed seperately.

The buck and pregnant doe looked fine, but have been losing weight and don't look that great now. Wonder if it could be they had the worst of the lice? Or not enough in their diet?
They were only getting fed 1x a day, and less than a gallon ice cream tub between them... 
Starting this week.... those 2 are getting fed 2x a day. They get about half of a gallon of feed/beet pulp in the morning between them, and then in the evening I fill it up with feed, alfalfa pellets and beet pulp, buck gets a little over half of the tub, doe gets all the rest except for about 3/4 of a cup that I give to the kids in the creep feeder in the evening. 

Then....I fill up one feeder with alfalfa pellets between feedings, but 2 of my does are picky and won't eat them - one who I am concerned about does get good alfalfa hay though, but the others were wasting the hay so bad we switched to alfalfa pellets for them.

Their kids all look great, growing, thriving, SPOILED and SWEEET. Udders seem fine and they seem to have good milk supply for the kids. 

I am just at my wits end. I don't know what the next step should be. More feed spread out through the day until there is more browse? 
Could it be from the kids bringing the does down? 
I am guessing with feed and taking care of the lice it should definitely help my buck and preggo doe.
Eyelids seem fine unless I am doing the check wrong.

I did find a vet today that will do a fecal for $12. So that will be something I do ASAP next week. All the other vets wanted $45+ and they ship it off to a nearby lab! it was ridiculous IMO, so glad I called around again today! 

They all seem fine, but look too thin and bony. My nubian/boer does have never been wide, filled out girls. The younger one has always been very slim, so she doesn't look 'horrific' but does look very thin. The older one is sunk in around the hips, but seems like she might be looking so/so better since she was de-liced and one of her 3 mo old twins were sold last weekend, so less demand for milk- she's deep not wide, but is a large doe, about as tall as my boer buck.

I know it's learn as you go. I've never had issues in the past with dogs, rabbits, birds, etc. that I've had that I couldn't figure out, so this just really gets to me. We love our goaties, and just want the best for them.

BTW, we sold an 8mo old doe a couple of weeks ago, and she looked just fine......I don't know if it's a lice issue that I didn't see on the other does, the kids bringing them down, or if I do have an internal issue that the wormers didn't take care of.... :hair: :hammer: 

Anyway thanks for letting me get this out. None of my family or friends understand because they don't have goats. 
I just couldn't wait until I do a fecal to get out my frustration....


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Adding pics...

Ithma when her twins were 3 weeks old









Ithma and her buckling we sold on 3-12 









Trouble - pre preggo 









4mo preggo









A week before she kidded 









Last weekend..


















I can post more pics of the girls tomorrow... They aren't large bodied does overall, except for Ithma...


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

It looks like you have covered all of the bases but let me add a few things for you to think about:
-I would have a good grass hay available Free Choice ALWAYS for the lactating does. A good pelleted feed is important but hay is More important for a doe.
-I would have a goat formulate mineral Free Choice to make sure they are not mineral deficient and I would give all of them a BoSe dose.
-I would give all your lactating does a probiotic product. I use OptiZyme top dressed on my rations for all gestating does and any that still seem "unthrifty" I give several doses of Probios.
-If you aren't creep feeding the kids you may want to start them on something so they wil begin to get part of their nutritional need from another source, easing the demand on the doe and begining to wean the kids.
I don't see these does being in horrible shape. They look to be average for a dairy/boer cross. They will not be as heavy as a FB boer and can't be expected to nurse multiple kids and maintain the body condition that a fullblood boer would....I love percentage lines but this is the age when FB boer kids catch % kids because the % does begin to wear out while the boer does continue to produce.....JMO


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

To me they look like does that are putting their all into the milk they are feeding the kids.
They can't NOT be getting enough to eat with how much you feed them!
Some of our does get to be like skeletons, even when we had boers they would look that way.
When they wean the kids, they will most likely bounce back.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Babies do take alot out of the Does ....especially as the kids get older and the demand is more.... but.. after the kids are pulled ...they return pretty quick.. back to good condition.... the more kids they are feeding the more they are dragged down....

I'd get that fecal done for worms an cocci ...to rule it out... 
Sometimes the wormer stops working.... How much and what did you use per lb....?

Sounds like ...they are getting what they need as in feed....

Your right ..hay isn't just hay... the better the hay... the more nutrition the goats get out of it.... :wink:

with any feed change ..do it gradually...

If a Doe gets dragged down to far...before weaning age ...I will pull them 2 weeks early....


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Aren't the kids a good representation of the doe's health? Like if the mom is unhealthy, the babies are most likely going to be unhealthy?
If thats the case, the kids look great, sooooo?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Thank you so much everyone! I appreciate your help, as I love my girls and don't want them to be unhealthy - have an unhealthy weight.

to answer relics questions

We bought the best mixed grass hay we could find in the LARGE round rolls - so big we can't get them through our gate into the pen. I use the wheel barrow and fill up the hay feeders and keep them full for the girls/kids and my buck.

I do offer free choice mineral. They usually eat it up but doesn't seem like they are touching it much lately. I typically move it around to different parts of the barn area, so I need to start doing that again as it gets their attention more. I keep it in a bucket, and offer it to my buck for a few hours every other day, and occassionally I will mix some into his grain or just put some in his feed pan if it's not going to rain.

I have never heard of Optizyme, is it similar to the probiotic paste? I do have some of that, but haven't given any to the girls yet.

I just made a creep feeder a little over a week ago - turned one of the temporary kidding stalls into a stall for the kids. They love it  They are all finally into eating grain, so I've been leaving grain and alfalfa pellets in there for them.

Pam - I told my husband I want to get a fecal done on Mon, at least 1 or 2 of them to rule out anything we missed. So hopefully I can get that in and will be such a huge relief!

The babies all look fine to me, happy, healthy, and spoiled lil sweeties. They have all doubled/more than doubled their weight at 1 month old. The 3 mo old doeling is at a really good weight, seems just fine <Ithma's doeling>. Ithma's udder seems to be a bit smaller these days, so I think she is not letting her nurse as much. So hopefully we'll start seeing more improvements with her over the next couple of weeks.

BTW, thought I'd mention that a couple of the kids have lil milk goiter's so that's gotta be a good sign right? :wink: Especially Ithma's kids, they developed theirs early on, but I am noticing her doeling's is starting to get smaller.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

boer kids suck the life out of their moms.. my boer does would get something like 4-6 pounds of grain and alfalfa pellets a day each and they still barely hung in there


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *



SDK said:


> boer kids suck the life out of their moms.. my boer does would get something like 4-6 pounds of grain and alfalfa pellets a day each and they still barely hung in there


Thanks, the comments here are making me feel more at ease! I am slowly increasing their grain, not sure how many lbs. they are getting per day, but I'll just keep slowly increasing it and basically now the alfalfa pellets are left out at all times. I also am increasing beet pulp. Not sure how much is too much, so I don't go overboard, but they love the dry beet pulp added into their grain.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *



> Pam - I told my husband I want to get a fecal done on Mon, at least 1 or 2 of them to rule out anything we missed. So hopefully I can get that in and will be such a huge relief!


 It is good to know in case that is an issue.... :wink:



> The babies all look fine to me, happy, healthy, and spoiled lil sweeties.


 Your right the babies look great....to me too...



> BTW, thought I'd mention that a couple of the kids have lil milk goiter's so that's gotta be a good sign right? :wink: Especially Ithma's kids, they developed theirs early on, but I am noticing her doeling's is starting to get smaller.


 Milk goiter is good.....that means ..they are getting plenty.... if the goiter is lessened..it may mean... they are eating on their own more ...than nursing .... :wink:



> I am slowly increasing their grain, not sure how many lbs. they are getting per day, but I'll just keep slowly increasing it and basically now the alfalfa pellets are left out at all times. I also am increasing beet pulp. Not sure how much is too much, so I don't go overboard, but they love the dry beet pulp added into their grain.


 As with anything... watch for looser stools...then... that is a good indication of to much.... that is when to cut back before they get the scours... :wink:


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Are they getting any browse/pasture yet?

Good browse will help them retain their weight but they need to eat alot of it and still keep good hay to them too.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Candice, did everybody get wormed after kidding? Something about the hormones in a doe right after kidding makes the worms go crazy...and then add this warmer weather. Uhg!
I notice you have some green grass coming in, are they getting to eat that? Mine have no hay at all right now and grain just once daily...and look even fatter than before they delivered. I would suspect the hay nutritional value or possibly worms. (?) One tube of quest plus horse wormer would do all of your girls and get everything (don't triple dose).
This winter we fed nothing but peanut hay (no grass hay). The guy who delivers it feeds it to his boer goats, no grain added, and they are little porkers even when lactating and pregnant. It looked too stalky to me but my goats loved it. I enjoyed picking out the peanuts and helping myself to a few (don't tell anyone!) It was a little higher than regular grass hay, but cut my grain bill in half (I still fed grain once daily, two cups per prego doe). The mini round bales were $25 around here and lasted my 7 does a week with lots of waste.
Those kids are just gorgeous!!!!! Love the reds!!!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

We did worm everyone with ivermectin after they kidded <orally>, and then again about 7-10 days later.

We can't get anything like peanut hay here, but sounds like terrific stuff!
The best free choice hay we can really find around here is timmothy/orchid grass, which they do seem to really like. 
Most people around here feed this hay or hay that has a lot of clover in it.

Their pen is about 1/2 an acre, has green grass coming up in most of it, the part across the creek doesn't - hubby killed off most of the weeds over there/vines, and planted grass so we'll see if the grass will grow.

We have an acre of wooded area behind their pen that we are working on getting fenced. They had turnout time back there pretty much every day last summer/fall. We're starting to turn them out for at least 2 hours a day again, but hopefully in a few weeks or so they will be able to go back there when they want! They LOVE it back there so much to browse on...don't know about nutritional value though..









Ithma kinda looks better, but it'll take time.  
Tomorrow I want to have a fecal done, we'll only do 1 for now, so I'll pick the goat that looks the thinnest and go from there. 
Could just be their kids and the hard winter that has brought them down, but even my preggo do feels ribby....She has a LOT of hair to hide it....
She is getting a big preggo belly...but again...ribby...


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

I dont know what that ground covering is in the last pic but it looks like goat heaven.
I know honeysuckle is about 16%,so if you have lots of it in there it will help them gain some weight or at least keep up.

If i remember right your in Northern KY,i know what you mean about the winter,but things are looking better.except tonight,we suppose to get more snow.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Thanks, hopefully it will help get the weight on and keep it on. I am actually in Central KY as well, not far from Lexington


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

fecal will tell you something for sure - as to the weight, they do look thin and I am glad you are feeding the nursing moms 2X a day now. That will certainly help them out a bunch.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Oh wow, love that wooded area! Looks like goat heaven and wish we had some of that here. I'm sure the really cold temps had a lot to do with it. It takes lots of calories to keep warm. You're a great goat mommy, so I'm sure they will all be plump again in no time. :hug: 
How do the eyelids look a far as color? My nubian was wormed with ivermec while prego because her lids were looking pale and it didn't help her, even after a second and then 3rd week of it. :hair: I held off until she kidded and gave the quest plus and now she's putting back on weight. She's the's the only one of mine that lost condition (very dry, sandpaper hair and could feel her ribs). She was getting plenty to eat. She's putting it all back on now but I know how you feel. It was frustrating! I'm sure the crawling critters came in with your straw bedding. We had a dead snake in one of our bales! :shocked:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Fecal had to wait, so I will do it tomorrow. I didn't notice until getting grain today that they had changed it. We buy our grain from a feed store that is recommended by breeders in the area. Anyway it's now 15% not 16%. It's medicated to help prevent cocci. Is that what most grains are medicated for? 
We bought the kids a trough feeder today for their creep feeder, and they were loving it! I was using plastic ice cream buckets, but of course they spill it. Now I can fill it up and hopefully they won't waste it 

The nursing girls have always been fed 2x a day, but I've increased their grain a LOT over the past 2 weeks.

A snake? YIKES! dead or alive I think that would have freaked me out! And I am sure the lice came from the bedding/hay. So glad I found that problem. I am impatient to find out if we have an internal parasite issue or not so I know what the next step should be. I do know that when I gave alfalfa hay to them it wasn't making any difference. They still get the pellets, and Trouble still gets good quality alfalfa that hubby rakes up at work and brings home <she is the youngest nursing doe>.

We're trying to downsize one of the rolls of hay so we can get it through our gate, we never thought this would be an issue, but we planned on buying the smaller round bales!


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

I think that is what most grains are medicated for. We get the 16% Noble Goat at TSC and it's medicated for cocci, too. It wasn't the snake that freaked me out so much, it was the horrid smell in the barn after DH began to spread it around (that's how we found it). Uhg!
For horses, I used to put some corn oil on top of their grain. It quickly added weight to my rescues and had the added benefit of a nice coat. :wink:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Yikes I could imagine! gross...gross.gross! But it happens. If the fecal comes back fine, I'll look into oil, and anything else that will help. I'll be glad when their weight isn't so frustrating, we have so much going on here as it is!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *



Steve said:


> I dont know what that ground covering is in the last pic but it looks like goat heaven.
> I know honeysuckle is about 16%,so if you have lots of it in there it will help them gain some weight or at least keep up.
> 
> If i remember right your in Northern KY,i know what you mean about the winter,but things are looking better.except tonight,we suppose to get more snow.


I finally looked up a picture of honeysuckle as I can never remember what it looks like, and yep we do have a lot of it back there, as I remember my kids were picking the flowers and trying to suck on them last year LOL!!!

I am so tired of this cold, lousy weather....hard to believe a week ago it was in the 70s and gorgeous!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Underweight and frustrated *

Okay just got the fecal result a short bit ago and SO GLAD I HAD IT DONE!!! I had to have it done at an equine hospital, and the lab tech was great IMO. 
He said he found a count of 750! I don't know anything about fecals but I can't imagine that being good. He said it is STRONGYLES. Safeguard is resistant. What would be the best <and least expensive> for does, kids and buck? Anything I can use for a pregnant doe at all? My preggo do is due in about 4 weeks.

I haven't had a chance to google this parasite yet, as I just finished dinner, and need to do evening chores, and get everyone tucked in for the night.... I had a feeling it was not a dietary issue.....or because of the lice, especially since I only saw lice on 3 goats....


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

strongyles are just like saying "she has worms" it is such a broad statement.

You can use Ivermectin and its safe for pregnant goats. HOrse paste works but I like the injectable as I know the dosage better and its more accurate in my opinion. 

You can also use Valbazen as well - but its a stronger wormer and if they have a heavy load i recommend you give the ivermectin first and then follow up with the Valbazen in a week.

The Valbazen shouldnt be used on does in their first few weeks of pregnancy.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Stacey! He said something about this parasite being common in this area. 

I did use ivermectin injectible orally and gave more than the recommended dosage, then followed up about a week or so later. Would this mean the parasite is resistant to it as well? I used it on all the does after they kidded, and 3 of them just kidded a month ago. I've been noticing their condition changing before they kidded.
So I wonder if this worm is resistant to ivermectin too? So frustrating! I know a lot of people around here use the Cydectin pour on orally...but not sure it would help the matter? Or should I just be cautious and use Valbazen? My doe is due 4/26.

Thanks again, I am so frustrated with parasites!


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## Dodge 'Em (Jan 13, 2011)

I use Cydectin, I give at least 10cc's to my grown does, 15cc's to my bucks, 2cc's to my kids (up to 30lbs) orally. It has worked pretty well for me, so far. Sometimes I will pair it with another type of wormer (last time was Safeguard and Cydectin although I dont really like Safeguard, but figured it my work on some different worms). It will also help on the lice problem.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

Cydectin is a bad idea for your pregnant does...JMO...some people use it and have no problems. I prefer not adding an additional risk.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much, the help is greatly appreciated. I remember that the woman I bought some of the goats from uses Cydectin pour on orally. Her goats have all looked real good, and I'd never heard her complain about any parasite problems. If it's not good for pregnant does though, then what would be? I'm afraid to try safeguard or ivermectin again any time soon since neither did the job. Is there a horse paste that would be good for her or any of them? I can get any horse wormer on the market here, as everyone here pretty much specializes in horses. I do know the feed store has Cydectin.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

I only use Ivomec or safegard, but Here is not There...The only words of wisdom I might add, that I have learned through my own experiences: It is a bad idea to try new things, rations, medications, hay,anything new, with a pregnant doe. If you want to experiment do it on one of your open healthy does, if something goes wrong it is easier to quickly correct your mistake than it would be to help a doe 130 days pregnant.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If they still have "Strongyles" even after the use of Ivermectin, chances are they have become resistant. There are a couple horse paste wormers that contain Pyrantel Pamoate that are used to control strongyle infections as well....I did find some research that says that it is safe for pregnant mares and foals as well as stallions and that there is a wide margin of "error" in the case of overdosing. It had been dosed at 7x the recommended amount without issue in horses. http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/pyrantel.htm this site has a drug list on it as well, very informative.

Try and get a close to accurate weight and dose at 3x that weight. When I use the ivermectin paste I push the entire tube into a 6cc syringe then put individual doses in a 3 cc syringe.
Another option may be to try Morantel Tartrate...Or as it's commonly known as "Rumatel", it's a pelleted feed wormer and is available at Tractor Supply, safe for pregnant goats, no milk withdrawal.

It really sucks that the only wormers that have been approved for use in goats don't stay active long enough to erradicate problems.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

What was the dosage you used for the ivermectin and was it horse paste or injectable?

What I would do is give your pregnant doe a high dose of ivermectin injectable orally and then valbazen or cydectin to the others. Once she kids in 2 weeks hit her good with the valbazen or cydectin 

This way you will keep her numbers down some but you won't injure her or the kids.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow thanks so much again!

okay for the ivermectin, I used ivermectin injectible. I gave it 1cc per 30lbs. orally which is what I wrote down in my lil journal I keep for the dosage. I gave a tad bit more. I just remembered I did NOT dose the preggo doe recently with Ivermectin, but obviously it's not making a difference since the other 4 had it and one of those was the one I had the fecal done on.

Stacey I think I will do what you have suggested, seems like the most logical thing to do. I don't have any more ivermectin though so I will have to pick more up. 

Liz I am going to check out the link you gave, as we have just about any horse related item you can think of in the area. 

OH..I found out that ALL the local vets either send their fecals to the lab I used, or another one in the city nearby...they were all charging around $45.00 when I took it straight to the lab myself and paid $12.00! crazy....


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

glad you got a reasonable price for the fecal! Dont you jsut love the hike in price for them being the middle man :roll:


I do 1cc per 20lbs for the ivermectin and I estimate high on the goats weight if I dont know exactly


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Stacey I will make a note of that in my notebook! And I agree, it's crazy...I need to get into business so I can be the middle man LOL 

Okay more questions about Cydectin. I was just browsing Fias Co farm's site, and it says Quest is basically the same thing as Cydectin. Is it better to give Quest or Cydectin? It says that Quest is 4x stronger. 

Anyone know what the dosage would be if Quest is good to give them? 

Kathy said 10cc per grown doe. My does are around 85-125lbs estimated. I have a measuring tape, and also another measuring method I found so I will get as accurate weight on them as possible...those are 'guesstimates"

I want to get it early in the morning, so I can treat ASAP. Thanks again for the help! I know my girls/kids/buck thank you too!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

The thing with wormers is if you go straight to the strongest wormer you then run yourself out of wormers fast and then nothing is effective. 

The dosage for quest is tricky -- I would hae to ask Ashley again as she is the one who gave the dosage to me last time. YOu have to do some math to get it right. Quest you have to be careful with as you can overdose them. Its not as safe a wormer as most


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much Stacey, I will just stick with Cydectin pour on most likely to be safe.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I figured up the goat dose of cydectin and compared it to the concentration in Quest horse wormer. The moxydectin in both is at the same concentration so you would take the goat's weight and dose just like that. (100 lbs = to the 100 lbs mark on quest wormer). If you wanted to syringe it, it would be 1/4 cc per 25 lbs or 1.5 cc per 150 lbs. Each "tick" on the quest wormer is for 50 lbs. None of my girls had any problem with it. I'd just go with "quest plus" if you do use horse wormer because the "plus" part will kill tape worms just in case.
Sorry, meant to add that the dose of moxydectin per pound for horses was the same as for goats (.4 mg/kg) So there is a difference in the cc's you would give from quest wormer versus cydectin because it's packaged in a higher concentration. Hope that makes sense! :thumbup:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

PS, I didn't give the Quest to my pregos. I read that some people had no problems and some people had problems, so I didn't want to take the chance. Glad you found out what it was!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow thanks so much Aimee! I have been going crazy here trying to find Cydectin! All the stores around here sell are those great big bottles for over $200! I did find 500mL at Tractor supply for $80. Frustrates me cause you can order it from valley vet/jeffers/etc for around $62.

I think I may just go to Tractor supply and investigate....I can find Quest plus gel real easy here...It's $11.69 for a 4 ounce tube <118mL>.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Perfect7 said:


> PS, I didn't give the Quest to my pregos. I read that some people had no problems and some people had problems, so I didn't want to take the chance. Glad you found out what it was!


Thanks again! And I feel so relieved to know what we're dealing with. I'm just disappointed that all the $$ spent on ivermectin injectible didn't get rid of the problem! <and safeguard for that matter!>.

I plan on giving my pregnant doe an ivermectin horse paste.

I am wondering if I should dose my does with quest plus, and dose all the kids and pregnant doe with the ivermectin paste.

Do you give the quest again in a couple of weeks? I can have another fecal done in the future to see if it takes care of the problem.

BTW, I have an idea on how to get accurate weights on the does, we'll see if it works. I know that the tape measuring method I used for the kids this past weekend seemed very accurate. 
That away no worries about overdosing!

Then for future I will order Cydectin pour on to keep on hand. That is what a breeder friend uses, and has great results.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I called Horse Cents because I couldn't find quest plus anywhere... he said that Quest Plus had some kind of recall 4 months ago and has been rereleased, but is on back order. So I'd have to stick with Quest.

4 of my goats were wormed with Cydectin up until I got them. Not sure what was used on the other 2.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad you had the fecal done.... :thumb:



> Kathy said 10cc per grown doe.


 I have the boers and I use 1cc per 33lbs...( as my vet requested)..Ivomec Injectable down the throat... So... I'd say... the goats got a very high dosage...if they where given 10cc .. which is better than underdosing... :wink:

Always remember with any wormer... to worm 7 to 10 days later....no longer not under...that is when.. the eggs hatch..... make the timing right or you will have worms again.... :hug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I was about to tell you Quest Plus was no longer in cerculation but thats great that they are re releasing it -- Ashely will be happy to hear it


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Equimax is safe for pregnant and lactating horses, so I think it would be safe for the does as well while prego. I sure hope the quest plus is still available! I bought about 20 tubes last summer when I found it on sale (for my horses). Are they getting rid of it? :shrug: I guess then we'd have to give quest and equimax to get the same thing (plus ivermec). :hair: I see it's on indefinite back order on Jeffers!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much Pam and Stacey. I have so much to learn about wormers! 
I went to the store that is more 'general' farm than the others. I bought Quest, and Equimax <ivermectin/praziquantel>. They had a couple of other kinds of ivermectin, but this appeared to be the best one on the shelf.

So I would give the Equimax at 3x the recommended dosage right <100lb. goat would get 300lbs worth of wormer?>. I want to make sure that is correct as it's for the pregnant doe and all the kids.

I also bought a bathroom weight scale and have an idea on how to get some accurate weights. I also have a weight tape, and feel the weights I did on my kids are accurate. Guess we'll find out!
I can't wait to get my girls and buck back into shape! We plan to breed for late fall kids <especially if my kids like 4-H>, but not if the girls are not in good physical shape. I'm sure they will pick right up once the parasite issue isn't an issue anymore. I'll have to use the weight tape for my buck...oh isn't that going to be....FUN...haha...he's not gonna like it one bit!

BTW, I deleted my last post because I went back to find the dosage for the paste...LOL


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Perfect7 said:


> Equimax is safe for pregnant and lactating horses, so I think it would be safe for the does as well while prego. I sure hope the quest plus is still available! I bought about 20 tubes last summer when I found it on sale (for my horses). Are they getting rid of it? :shrug: I guess then we'd have to give quest and equimax to get the same thing (plus ivermec). :hair: I see it's on indefinite back order on Jeffers!


I am not sure, but the guy on the phone told me they were either getting ready to release it or have already released it again, but it's been on back order. So it sounds like it should be available soon. I wonder why they took it off the market....


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We got everyone wormed! So hopefully it works, fingers crossed! We have enough to worm again in 10 days. Any idea how long it might take to see the girls/buck pick up on their condition?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

a couple weeks and you should see some results


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thanks so much Pam and Stacey


 Your Welcome... :thumb:



> a couple weeks and you should see some results


 I agree...you should notice it relativity quickly..... :wink:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Do they tend to look worse after you worm them before they pick back up? I dunno...the girls just seem to look a little worse today? They've been out in the woods grazing most of the day. 
This really has me bummed out... they have energy, alert, and udders are always nice and heavy with plenty of milk for their kids....


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Some will look worse before they look better...it could be that they aren't actually worse looking but that you are seeing them differently now that you know you treated them correctly, I have my FF here that was the only one who had a higher number as far as Barberpole eggs a month ago, she's getting her 3rd dose of ivermectin tomorrow and well...up til a week ago, to me she seemed to be even more boney looking, today though, she's filled out and has a nice layer over her hips, and she's nursing 7 week old twins.
Give them a little more time, I'm sure they are fine :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Liz, I am just so worried, don't want them to get any worse. I am so paranoid I guess about this wormer working. I've never heard anything bad about Quest though, so fingers crossed. 
I made them a longer hay feeder in the barn addition, and they seemed to approve. I thought about taking pictures to see their progress, but it's hard to 'see' but more of 'feeling.'


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

They have been treated..... so... they will be OK soon.... :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

toth boer goats said:


> They have been treated..... so... they will be OK soon.... :hug:


Thanks so much Pam I appreciate it  They have energy, look alert, and act fine, so that's got to be a positive too


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your welcome... :thumb: 

It will take a little time..... but you will see them put on the weight... :hug: 

Also.. if you have a scale ...you can weigh a goat or goats and then get a weight on them weekly... to see how they are doing.... you should see weight gain... :wink:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

As far as I understand it Quest Plus was taken off the market because Fort Dodge was sold out to Pizer(sp). 

Glad to hear it will be available again soon.. I've just been using Valbazen or Ivomec Plus Injectable(given SQ) instead. I have a very small amount of the quest plus left.. just in case. I figured out the dosage to be .1cc per 10lbs on the quest plus.


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