# which type of LGD?



## Nigie Girl

Hello everybody
I recently lost a goat to a bear (last weekend). My dad put in a strong electric fence to deter any predators (after the incident) but my mom is still worried. She really wants a good guard dog for the humans' safety mainly (because the electric fence is protecting the goats). 
So I've been looking at a few guarding dogs but I wanted to find one specifically for our needs. We live in a fairly residential area. We're only on 3 acres. Neighbors wouldn't appreciate the constant bark of a dog and we're not best friends with the local zoning committee :roll: ---because we didn't realize that our road didn't "allow" goats when we got them--it only allowed horses. 
:greengrin: 
So we want friendly guarding dog too...one that would safe around younger children because my younger cousins come to visit a lot. 
Also we have another dog that is REALLY old (a cocker spaniel) that would not want to be bothered by a playful big dog. She's blind and deaf so she really wouldn't be too much help if a bear came. 
I REALLY want a great pyrenees but my mom said they have too much hair and they would shed it all over the place. (Oh also...my dad is allergic to dogs--but specifically their hair...or so he says :wink: )
In addition, I have baby nigies every spring and I want a VERY gentle dog just so they aren't harmed (because sometimes we bring the babies in the house if we are going to be bottlefeeding them). 
My mom wants an Anatolian shepherd. 
So what do YOU think we should get? :? And is there any other guard dog breed that we should consider?


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## Nigie Girl

oooh also...female or male? 
and other specific details that my brain won't think of this early in the morning. 
Is the dog easily trained?


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## alyssa_romine

I would have to say Anatolian Shepherd.....The dogs need to be raised with goats, not just one that you bought for a pet and then put in with your goats. I was told to give them very little attention due to the fact that they need to bond with the goats and not humans.

I have a GP and she was bought to be a pet and then I got my goats...she is worthless as an LGD since I had her with me for about a year before I let her be out with the goats...its a long story as to why.

My friend has 3 Anatolian and loves them, she said that she wouldnt be without them. She also has guard donkeys but prefers her Anatolians.


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## toth boer goats

totally agree with alyssa_romine ,,we also have a Anatolian ,,he has short hair and is easier to groom.....
Great Pyrenees are good dogs but I know breeders that had to shave them or take them in and
pay someone to shave them.........there coats are a sticker magnets ,,,of all kinds and you do not know when one is burrowing into their skin or ear,,,, then you may get another vet bill......... :hair:
This is our dog "BOB" he is a white Anatolian ...... believe it or not they do exist......


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## K-Ro

With dad having the allergy, I would advise the Anatolian. You definitely need one raised with goats. And if you are talking bear, well even coyote, cats, etc. you are going to need more than one dog.

I am going to pm you some info too.


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## toth boer goats

I agree with K-Ro you should get more than one if you have a big predator problem............

As for male or female question,,if it is one dog you are wanting ,,, both are good ,but on the other hand females come in season........................

If you need more than one dog because of predators,,I recommend male and female,,,,when you have 2 females/and or 2 males they seem to fight alot it isn't pretty,some will fight to the death................Of course if you do not want to raise a litter of pups to sell,,,,I would fix the female.................. :shrug:


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## nancy d

Our first and only LGD is Anatolian. I wouldnt be without him. He sheds but he's always outside. I would think just the presnce of all his hair poop & urine is a great deterence. 
I agree with the others, no matter what you get you will need at least two especially for big game.
Mine is actually quite bonded to me as well as his goats. He see's me and wants to play. I would rather him play with me than the goats. He's a big oaf and has finally learned not to jump on me. He was almost a year old before he decided he would quit doing this. When he nips at my arms (in play) it hurts..he gets a firm NO BITE.And rolled if I can catch him!!
I dont allow anyone else to handle him except dh.
A few months back there were a pair of coyotes in the neighbors yard which he considers part of his territory. It was 3 am he was barking up a storm and jumping on fence, waking up said neighbors. 
Just from my own experience he doesnt bark much or very loudly (this incident I didnt hear about till much later!) 
He has killed oppossum in the goat pens. 
Whatever LGD you get, you are going to have to draw the line as far as interacting with him. This dog is a working animal not your garden variety puppy who everyone can be in contact with. 
So far Sheriff knows who is suppose to be here and who isnt. Inotherwords, he doenst put up a big fuss at afew of the neighborhood dogs who happen to walk by or at people. Im sure if anything/body was a threat to the goats they would be dog meat. 
TothBoers your dog is beautiful!


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## StaceyRosado

as to your dad being alergic --- the dog shouldnt be in the house so I cant see a dog being a problem. :shrug:


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## toth boer goats

" Bob" thanks you for the compliment ........nancy d


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## Nigie Girl

wow thanks everybody!
as far as how many dogs I can get...it looks like one is all my parents will allow in the yard! I mean we don't have a HUGE bear problem and we're in a residential area so it's not like I have a national forest behind my house. The last time EVER a bear was spotted in my yard was six years ago (obviously before the incident this year). and the one six years ago was really rare...it was a whole family. I think that with a 7,000 volt electric fence and one anatolian shepherd (maybe!) my goats might be safe..what do you all think?
toth boers your dog is GORGEOUS! I showed my mom the picture and now she wants a white anatolian. (really bad haha)
another reason why I probably shouldn't settle with two is because of the story that nancy d. said about her anatolian that was barking like crazy and woke up all the neighbors. we have some REALLY snotty neighbors and they would definitely do something drastic if the dog was barking loudly all the time. 
I only see one problem in the whole thing. We live on a road where a lot of people walk by: people with baby carriages, runners, bikers, and roller bladers. My parents don't want a dog that's going to freak out and attack people on the road, thinking that they're predators. 
IF we did get one it would probably be a spayed female. 
I've heard anatolians (and other big herding dogs) put up a BIG fuss when brought to the vet office to get their nails trimmed and checkup. Is this true?


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## nancy d

Yeah its not fun loading a 155lb puppy in the back of the truck for his yrly visit. Once he's there he's ok.This yr the vet came out to the truck to administer vacs. Office was full of city dogs. It may have been ok as the vet office is not his territory. 
As for the aggression. The only aggression Ive seen out of him is basic jumping on me, which as I said he has pretty much quit. But he could knock someone down easily he's a big dog his sheer size could scare the beejeebies out someone. 
But I honestly dont think he would go after a person or another dog UNLESS there was a threat to the goats. He will bark at other dogs but its not a fierce bark. He does more whining than barking. This is just our dog I dont know if all Anatolians are like that. 
Dogs are pretty discerning when it comes to threats to their charges. 
Would like to hear from others who's experience has been longer than a yr and a half!
Oh, and Nigiegirl I dont think he woke up all the neighbors just the ones who had coyotes.


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## nancy d

I will also share the fact that last yr he nipped at a vulva. It was not serious injury. The next day he and I were playing and he nipped my hand. 
Immediatly I pinned him down growling NO BITE!! with my knee to his chest and hand tight on his muzzle for several seconds.
He also lacerated my milk doe's leg a few months back. Right now he is seperated in another pen. We finally bought a shock collar for him. Before we could actually use it I cut the excess with a pair of scissors and it started to unravel so if you do get an LGD and buy a shock collar be sure not to do that. 
They do take lots of work as youngsters. The protection instinct is pretty strong...its the puppy play stuff that is not acceptable when it comes to your livestock.


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## Nigie Girl

I was just telling my mom about how they can do damage but they are good as long as you train them REALLY well as puppies. and she got really worried and wanted to know if anyone (on the site) had success with a mutt? 
she thinks that a dog will be protective around his owners, live in the house (yes i told her NO already but she wants him to guard the house), live in the barn, scare away bears, and be perfect when getting shots at the vets. I told her a dog can't do everything. 
so I have no idea what my parents will decide on now! 
it's so frustrating...I have to wait for something horrible to happen before my parents decide on something (for ex. the electric fence and now the guard dog). 
*sigh* oh well. 
any ideas? so far anatolian shepherds and great pyrenees are tied on the poll. 
are pyrenees more "gentle"? just wondering....


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## K-Ro

Great Pyrs are known as the 'gentle giants', Anatolians are more aggressive. Some farms have 1 that roam the 'farm' i.e., house, barn, etc. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. 

My mom has a Great Pyr female, she is 8yrs old will be 9 in December and she stays by the house and roams the rabbit pens and sometimes not often she goes in the house, but she was not raised in the house and knocks things over with her tail - so she doesn't stay in to long.

All of them can be a tad bit hard headed going thru puppy training, and remember if you get a puppy it will be a while before it can do its job.

I have a Great Pyr/Anatolian cross, he was supposedly only 1/8th anatolian, but he looks more anatolian than Great Pyr. He lives in the barn with the goats and we have had our issues going thru training, but you are going to have that with most pups.


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## toth boer goats

thank you Nigie Girl for the compliment on "BOB" our dog........

nancy d...... is right about everything ,we went through the same thing with a pup.He wanted to play to rough with the kids . :GAAH: mostly all LGD pups are like that growing up,,but you have to teach right from wrong......As for treatments,vacines, vet visits,,you have to also teach them ,,...we leash train ours,and for goodness sake,,,, get them to load up in your pickup or whatever you will take them to the vet with ,,,while they are young,,because they are real hard to load when they are big,,, heavy,,strong and scared to get in a car,,,ect.,you have to at least teach the basic's or you will not be able to handle them when you need to...... 

How can the dog be a inside dog and guard the goats????? :scratch: LOL


As for a MUTT::: The LGD dogs are bred to protect livestock ,,exampleyou really cannot take a rottweiler crossed with border collie and expect it's breed character to change......the rottweiler is more of a protection dog where the border collie is going to want to work the goats all the time and should always be watched..) LGD is there breed character,, it is what they were bred to do.......


the big problem I see ,,,,,,,,will be with any breed of dog ,,,,,,with such a busy area you live in .....you will have the same barking problems ........I do not know of any dogs that will not bark at that much activity............................SORRY :shrug:


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## Nigie Girl

I was just reading another post about someone who has newfoundlands and then I was looking online and they are described as REALLY gentle and good with people and are great guard dogs. 
Are they a good choice? my mom of course complained that their hair was WAY too long but if they're not going to be in the house for extended periods of time, then why bother? 
and it's good in a way because it gets frigid up here in the winter. 
what do goatspotters think? 
oh and then she was like "they're too big". and i guess they ARE big but what else will attempt to fend off a bear than something that looks like a bear? :greengrin: 
one quick question--border collies would be too aggressive with the goats..right? and they would focus more on herding than guarding...am i correct?


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## toth boer goats

Yes border collies,,,,,, if you do not watch them can herd them/ work them,,we have 2 and they love to work the goats,,,they are not guard dogs.....


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## rgbdab

I have 4 large "pet" dogs at my house, a boxer, a lab, a lb/chow mix and a german shepherd/doberman mix and although they aren't shy at barking they never gave me ANY warning when I lost a buckling to a coyote last month about 100 yards from my house!
I did research and asked people on here and decided to get 2 half Anatolian half GP. They are females 6 months old. I have 7 acres and also have near neighbors and was very worried they would bark too much. I must say they have been GREAT. They live with the goats and I feed them twice a day out there. Other than that I don't interact with them. They play with each other for a bit in the morning and the evening but haven't ever tried to play with a goat. They don't bark as much as my "pet" dogs do. They bark when they are concerned but seem to be able to easily distingish between a threat and other stuff. One of them did have a bad habit of jumping on me when I was going out to feed them and with huge, muddy paws it was very unpleasant so I put her down on her side gently but firmly until she relaxed and she hasn't jumped on me since. They are always with the goats and I feel much better for having them. Good luck!!! Denise


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## toth boer goats

rgbdab ......... do you watch the dog whisperer? I see you know how to be "top dog"..
Me personally I love the show and the way the dog whisperer calms the dogs,,he is amazing,
I do not know how he can stand getting bit.........That hurts...he acts like it is nothing.......... ouch..............


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## rgbdab

You caught me! LOL Yes I do watch the dog whisperer and I this was the first time I had a reason to use that manuever, but it worked just like on TV!!


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## toth boer goats

> You caught me! LOL Yes I do watch the dog whisperer and I this was the first time I had a reason to use that manuever, but it worked just like on TV!!


rgbdab.................gotta love him.........you are now officially......... "top dog",
I am so proud...LOL :thumb: :dance:


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## ArcticGoats

Hi - I'll put in my 2 cents! 

We have a maremma (the italian version of a pyr) and she is the greatest - we've trained her to guard the whole property as we have chickens, goats, sled dogs and a garden (she keeps the moose out). We also live on a relatively small place (7 acres) and so have neighbors and a road - she does bark and that is what they do - it is their first line of defense. We trained her to stay out of the road (people like to walk it) but since people are not a major concern for our other animals, we have spent a lot of time socializing her so that she won't eat the fedex guy when he comes to our house. She also has a lot of hair and whether inside or out - it needs care and grooming at least once a week. We like the thick coat as we live in a cold place tho! Anyway - she is just the neatest, sweetest dog - but beware, LGDs are headstrong and require alot of training and they are not like your average dog - they definitely think for themselves and that doesn't always mean pleasing you. We enjoy that aspect of her personality actually, but it helps if you are ready for it! 

Ours is only 18 months old (so right now we are having a bit of a teenager stage LOL) so I'm no expert but we have had great luck with her so far - she's run off 900 lb moose and kept the neighbor dogs out of our chickens (although right now I have a 1 lb banty hen that is running HER around!!!! LOL) - but she is also just a big huggable polar bear too!


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## MissMM

Maria, I think you might be asking for a "min-ir-ical" to find a dog that would be an LGD, not bark excessively, not shed too bad, and not be agressive to the people walking down the road, biking, etc. If the dog is going to be in with the goats full-time, I would say stick with a Great Pyr or Maremma.

I did a LOT of research before buying our Great Pyrenne. Chose that breed above the Anatolian (bark at everything, can be overly agressive with the livestock and humans, roam more than others.....). Herding breeds are not good either as they hred but not necessarily protect.

Athena, our Greaty Pyr, is only 9 months old now, but does very well with the goats. She only barks if there is a problem, and is not agressive to humans unless they come onto the property without one of the family members available and they try to get near the goats or horses. She will give several warning barks, followed by a growl, followed by walking towards the person until they start backing up and away from the critters. She has gotten to know that the UPS and MedHome's truck is OK. But stray dogs or predators, beware. She is just awsome.

And she gets Sunday's off where she gets to come in the house and rest, be a dog and get lots of attention.


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## ArcticGoats

MissMM - your pyr is gorgeous!!

I love big white dogs as you can see from prior post :wink: 


:sun:


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## MissMM

Thank you - she is such a sweetheart. She does not roam = even though she could easily clear the goat fencing if she wanted to.......... she does not play hard like the nip and bite theory that other dogs do. If we are present and a stranger comes onto the property, she will anounce her "presence," but will look to us before she gets aggressive. She doesn't chase the goats around and nip at their heals like "herd dogs" will. I'm so impressed I can't even tell you. She was born to "house dogs" so most of her behavior comes from natural instinct. And if she barks, you better go look to see what's going on cause I guarantee you there's some critter or person around that isn't supposed to be there. 

And she cherishes her days off.


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## goathappy

We have 3 GP, two of them aren't that good of guard dogs(thats our own fault, long story) and the other is just an absolutely wonderful dog. The two 'bad' ones used to be good guard dogs, and Pearl has been a good dog since we got her. She knows the goats are her job and she's always watching them. She's chased coyotes away too.

Personally, if we had to get another dog, I would get a maremma. I've heard so many great things about maremmas, they say they are better than pyrs. I was talking to a breeder friend, and she said that a friend of hers out in CA had two maremmas. Two cougars tried to attack her goats and her horses and the next morning she went out to find the dogs covered in blood, each with a cougar head in their mouths :shocked: I thought that was impressive.

There was an article in the DGJ about a breed called Karakachans, they sounded like a really nice breed.

But yes, I am happy with our pyrs  We haven't lost a single goat to a coyote yet and we have a lot of coyotes!


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## gotgoats

I have a Komondor/Pyrennes mix (1/2 and 1/2). When we first got goats, we had 2 dog attacks in less than 6 months, and we have excellent fencing. We were so lucky they survived. Both were attacked by small packs of dogs. I happened to catch both attacks looking out my window. I was able to scare off the dogs, but it is such a sinking feeling to see your animal being chewed on, ugh, and the fear it could happen again especially when your aren't looking. 
So after this, we decided to get a LGD. We got Baggy as a puppy. We have had him over 1 1/2 yrs. and have had no attacks, and so many less strays wandering around our place. I really feel that he has something to do with this. He has killed several raccoons, possums, and skunks. We got a Jack Russell for our son this summer, and even when that dog was just a baby he would play with it and treat it sweetly. Now they are buds. I also have 4 yr old and 18 month old, and he doesn't bother them at all. I feel safe for them to be around him. (He stands taller than me when he puts his paws on the fence). 
When we got him, he went to stay with the goats on the 2nd day. He whined for a few days, but he seemed to prefer to stay with the goats a few months into it. He has never attacked or hurt the goats. Although, when he is put in with a different group or a new one is added he does get a little excited and chase them some. I believe he does this because he wants to smell, and was still going thru the puppy phase. (he never meant harm).
Main drawback is his fur. He is part Komondor (which is the really curl fur), and his fur gets so matted up and messy. We do have to trim his fur around his eyes and ears. If it gets too overgrown he seems to be more suspicious of anything that moves or makes noise. The vet told me he could cut it for about $70.00. I would only do it for summer, and trim the rest of it during the year for maintenance. 
He only barks when he is suspicious or sees/hears something that doesn't belong. 
My advice, I would get one. Saves a lot of worry and wonder, especially at night. We sleep easier knowing he is around!
Sorry to be so lengthy. Good luck!


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## MissMM

Just an update on how our LGD Athena is doing. We used to give her a "night off" where she'd come in the house for the night, take her time eating as much as she wants, relax on the couch, etc. For almost a month now, there have been cougars sighted in the area (by me too). To make a long story short, when we brought Athena in for her night off, she was actually very uncomfortable, paced by the back patio door constanly (you can see the goat pen from it), barked frequently, basically we had to take her back to the goat pen cause she was so nervous about being away from her kids. 

We bring her in the house occasionally for an hour or so, mainly to eat and social with the indoor dog (Bailey: our 13 year old border collie dalmation mix - she misses Athena terribly), but she soon wants to go back to her charges. 

She's shaping up to be one of the best dogs I've ever had


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## Amy Goatress

We have 2 Great Pyrenees ( brother and sister ), we use to have an adult female Pyrenees.


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## jordan

I swear by my Spanish Mastiffs!!! I will NEVER get anything else!
They are not people aggressive (so you wouldn't have to worry about the foot traffic), but are extremely large and frankly, kind of ugly (in a cute way) so they tend to deter people just by their looks, size and very steady gaze. Though they are still a very rustic breed, their movement is amazing to see... fast and agile for all their bulk (males can easily reach 220 lbs). They are absolutely fearless and there aren't too many predators that I wouldn't pit them against. At 7 months old, my 110 lb female tried to take on a bear that came too close to our vehicle while we were vacationing in SD. I put a stop to that real quick! This same dog, a year later, picked up a coyote by the spine and snapped it's back. Very efficient.

[attachment=1:3uvc2l6p]tn_moses922072.jpg[/attachment:3uvc2l6p]

[attachment=0:3uvc2l6p]tn_isgoats71305.jpg[/attachment:3uvc2l6p]

I raise nigerian dwarfs and have seen the 2 week old babies use these dogs as jungle gyms. I also provide petting zoo's for some of my business associates and routinely take the dogs along. They are child proof (and I don't say that lightly!).

This breed has not been over-produced like many of the common breeds found here in the US, so you don't tend to get the temperament issues you can find with some of the other breeds (too laid back to be effective or too aggressive). In other words they still do their jobs. The down side is that due to the rairty of the breed (less than 150 in the US), they aren't cheap. I imported all 3 of mine from Europe and to this day consider it the best investment I've ever made for both me and the farm!

No matter what breed you decide on, make sure that the genetics are healthy (hips, eyes, prone to cancers, etc), the parents have stable temperaments and the pups are temperament tested. Not every pup from a litter has the temperament to make a good LGD regardless of the fact both parents may be working dogs themselves.

Good luck!
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## mekasmom

I wasn't sure how to vote in the poll, but we have both a pyr female and an Anatolian male. I also have a bunch of little chihuahuas, but they don't count as LGD.


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