# Buck Trying Tried To Mount Me



## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I have noticed for some time my buck, Midnight, has been affectionate towardme.hlala: He ignores his ear being pulled andonly flinches at being hit on the horns with a stick and/or yelled at. Basically my male ranch partner has toprotect me from Midnight's advances towards me. If he is not in the paddock with me Midnight, who is about 8 months old,keeps his head on my leg flirting with me. All my efforts to get him to stop keepfailing. Today, even though my ranchpartner was armed with a stick trying to protect me, Midnight tried to mountme. I really would like to go inside thepaddock alone without being courted by a buck. Anyone else experience this problem and how did you solve it? Not sure if it relevant, but his mommaabandoned him and he was raised on the bottle.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Watergun?


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

My buck did the same thing to me..water gun..as woodhaven said ....u may think me awful but he would knock me down trying to..and one day pissed me off so i just plain smacked the taste outta his mouth i co-cocked him so hard....i was mad and thought thats the last time your gonna try ta hump me..and it worked..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Yep any time my boys do qnything unacceptable around me be it courting behaviour or fighting each other too close to me (one gets jealous) they get a smack on the soft part of their nose as hard as i can. My hardest hit is nothing like how hard they hit each other so im never going to seriously hurt them. I keep a short bit of poly pipe in the buck yard and use that cos it makes a loud noise as well. I also yell no and sometimes that alone is enough. This buck has you bluffed and is dominant. Its a big worry at only eight months. You need to establish dominance otherwise it is only going to get worse and dangerous since he is doing this now and still just a baby. Wait till you get to the teenager stage.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Smacking any goat on the head or horns isnt going to solve anything except them taking it as a challenge.
Youre going to have to throw this buck down. Grab opposite legs, a front & back one & sit on him till he relaxes.
Hopefully you can do it in one swift motion so he wont know what happened till he's down. And it may take more than once.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

A month ago we tried to buy a water gun at Wal-Mart to use on the goats but none available this time of year. Maybe in a few months they will show up on the shelves. I like the poly pipe idea. I have been screaming at him, hitting him with both wood stick on horns and hands on face, yanking his ears, and anything else I could think of. I have grabbed his horns and forced his head to the ground, but nothing has worked. I even kicked him today, trying to get him to leave me alone so I could go forward. Maybe a few whacks with poly pipe, along with some screaming will detour him. He is pretty strong (Spanish) and I am not sure I can throw him to the ground.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

nancy d said:


> Smacking any goat on the head or horns isnt going to solve anything except them taking it as a challenge.
> Youre going to have to throw this buck down. Grab opposite legs, a front & back one & sit on him till he relaxes.
> Hopefully you can do it in one swift motion so he wont know what happened till he's down. And it may take more than once.


 I read this and all i could do was picture someone out there restling a buck and i laughed my butt off..my family would think i'd went nuts lol..but i'm sooo going to try this if it ever happens again with any buck lol..


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Cattle prod.


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## iteach64 (Dec 14, 2012)

We have found that a cattle prod works well for any goat problem.... just use it once and all you have to do is show it to them


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Nuff said !
Cattle prod the bugger 

On another note , what the heck do I want to get a buck for again ?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

iteach64 said:


> we have found that a cattle prod works well for any goat problem.... Just use it once and all you have to do is show it to them


:rofl:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Christy , I can just see you wrestling with a buck :ROFL:
The only advice I can give you here would be get yourself 
a sock and maybe put some flour in it , lololol.
I would pay money to see that one , :slapfloor:


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> My buck did the same thing to me..water gun..as woodhaven said ....u may think me awful but he would knock me down trying to..and one day pissed me off so i just plain smacked the taste outta his mouth i co-cocked him so hard....i was mad and thought thats the last time your gonna try ta hump me..and it worked..


Now that just made the water I was drinking come out my nose :ROFL::ROFL:
I cant even breathe right now , Christy , you are hysterical :slapfloor:


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

JaLyn said:


> My buck did the same thing to me..water gun..as woodhaven said ....u may think me awful but he would knock me down trying to..and one day pissed me off so i just plain smacked the taste outta his mouth i co-cocked him so hard....i was mad and thought thats the last time your gonna try ta hump me..and it worked..


If I ever have the good fortune to meet this gal in person yall can *BET YER AZZ* I ain't gonna pizz her off!:dazed:

Bob


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Go on with your bad self there Christy :applaud::thumb:

Im so sorry Texas , I got carried away here....

I do hope you find a solution to your bad behavin buck 
Cattle prod sounded like it would work and you only have to do it once , then show it to him everytime he gets that lusty look in his eyes , lolol


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Cattle prod works great. Let him walk into it at shoulder heighth. Once or twice is all it takes.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I tried a cattle prod on a sheep once because it refused to walk on it's lead one day. It just jumped straight up in the air and still refused to walk. Lol. But sheep are dumb, goats are smart little buggers. I'm just reading this thinking...man if I said this stuff in front of people today they would be appalled. They might even call the sheriff and send them to my house in fear that I'm an animal abuser. If you told someone on a horse forum to do this sort of thing you'd have people gathering a lynch mob...The world is so PC these days! I'm glad people on this forum aren't so sensitive and realize that sometimes you just gotta whack the dang beasties!


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

Try a pig pipe like they use in shows... 
I have a friend who got a bunch of pig supplies with something she bought for the goats and that was one thing she got, she would hit them sometimes on the butt, some one the neck,just somewhere whe they did something bad not hard enough to hurt just enough to pinch
And teach them to no do it 
Kinda like grandma grabbing and pulling your ear away from something! It didn't hurt that bad but enough to get you to stop


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## HaleyD (Sep 12, 2012)

I agree with both the flipping idea and the cattle prod idea. I've used both with my "bucky" wether who likes to get pushy. If I don't have the cattle prod with me I flip him, and if I have it with me usually all I have to do is push the button and the noise alone lets him know I mean business since he's been shocked with it before.

Flipping isn't too hard, I've done it to ton's of goats large and small. Just grab his legs opposite from you and pull them out from underneath him. If you've never done it to him before you will catch him off gaurd so he will go down easier. Once you get him down just hold him down until he stops fighting you, then just walk off after you let him up. Just watch out for the horns!


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Texas.girl said:


> He is pretty strong (Spanish) and I am not sure I can throw him to the ground.


Anyone anysize can throw a goat down if you do it right. I am 5'7 and 135lbs and have been able to throw down a full grown boer. Nancy was right in how to do it -


nancy d said:


> Grab opposite legs, a front & back one & sit on him till he relaxes. Hopefully you can do it in one swift motion so he wont know what happened till he's down. And it may take more than once.


I've taught it to me sister in law who is only 5'3 and plan on teaching my daughter when she's 10.

Don't let your buck get the upper hand thinking he is more dominant than you. Especially at 8 months. It will only get worse. Another thing to do is when he goes to bleat at you, grab his mouth/nose as hard as you can , don't let go and pop him really good on the nose.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

Whenever one of our bucks tries to dominate me I pretend Im a buck. I do what they do. I use my hand and press againsthis forehead pushing him backwards just like the other bucks do to each other. When we had horses I did the same thing - basically in the horse world backing them is a way of dominance and if I were a horse fighting another horse which ever horse backs first is the loser. So with my buck I be a buck and make him be the one to back first. He behaves himself out in the paddock now but if I have to take him to the stall that we normally use for breeding he may "talk" to me. haha.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

An eight.month old spanish.is a tiny guy, easy to.flip. Try flipping.a mature boer buck. 

I dont bother flipping.mine cos its easier.to give the little smacknon the.nose.and it wprks well.fpr.my boys - but smack them.anywhrre elde they ignore.it. 

I would.never advocate pushing.on.teir forehead. In my.mind i.dont.want to.speak.goat to them.because i dont.want.them.thinking.i.am.jusy anither goat. My.nubian boy liked.to.push his forehead against me from the tender age of six weeks, he got a sharp tap to the nose.amd knows thatbi dont.play that way.


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## sbhministry (Oct 12, 2012)

Squirt gun shortage solution. A caulking gun makes the best squirt gun you ever saw. Buy a tube of caulk that has a removable tip and cap. Find projects to use the whole tube right away while it's fresh. Cut the hole so its about 1/8" Remove the tip and find a rod or dowel to push the seal all the way out and clean out the caulk with a rag. Fill with water and put the seal back in. Put in caulk gun and it will shoot 15 ft.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh my , I a trying to remember why I wanted a buck !
I know I said this before , but jeez , I can only imagine what you guys have to put up with when you have a problem buck !
Maybe I will just have a smaller breed buck like a ND so I can be sure I can handle him. Maybe that's just wishful thinking . I'm sure those little ones can be a major headache in their own ways.


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## butch-7 (Sep 20, 2012)

all goat herders learn if they stay in long enough......there are 2 factors w/herdsmen.....a buck is not to be played with first rule.....he is 1/2 your herd you can ruin him forever or bred him forever....make a bullet proof pen for him and a wether mate for him to play with all his life.....this little voice is telling me to shut up butttttttttt i hate to see someone get hurt.....there is no male animal on earth that cant smell a female in heat .....it can be through your period days or your short 3 day ovaolation[cant spell].....a buck is next to a stud horse that have killed their girl owners down through the years.....it doesent take long to ruin a good buck when hes a kid.....10mins of over petting or pushing on his head its done .....water squrting ele stick all these things only sets you up for the dayyyy.....my 2 cents....good luck.....butch


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Trickyroo said:


> Oh my , I a trying to remember why I wanted a buck !
> I know I said this before , but jeez , I can only imagine what you guys have to put up with when you have a problem buck !
> Maybe I will just have a smaller breed buck like a ND so I can be sure I can handle him. Maybe that's just wishful thinking . I'm sure those little ones can be a major headache in their own ways.


I have had 5 bucks in my goatherding life and every single one of them to date (knock on wood) has been an absolute delight to handle and be around. I had a tiny little mini fainter, a big LaMancha, two mini nubians, and a Boer/kikoxnubian (he is only half grown but is going to a BIG boy and is in rut right now). Yes, you have a chance of getting one that will be a pain, but in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule, especially if you handle them and expect them to behave from birth.

there will always be some who are a handful even if you handle them right and they can be a pain (I won't keep a mean buck. I cull hard for temperament) but don't let these few cases scare you away from having your own buck. being scared of him before you even get him can make you less likely to enforce your rules on him and become a self fulfilling prophecy of bad behaviour. If you are really concerned try to find a mature buck who is already a sweetheart to handle. It is VERY important to have your rules and never ever be inconsistent with them. Enforce your expectations consistently and firmly and most of the time you will have a sweet easy to handle buck.

Literally the ONLY problem I have had with my bucks (and I have had this one with ALL of them) is that they are so affectionate and sweet that they beg for cuddles even when they stink to high heaven in rut. They get so sad if I won't give them skritches that I bought a toilet bowl brush so I could reach through the fence and scratch and rub them with it to make them happy without getting musky goat pee all over my hands and clothes.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Bucks can be a handful, Tricky, but the one's I've met are super sweet. Sometimes does are more of a handful than the bucks! :laugh:


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> Bucks can be a handful, Tricky, but the one's I've met are super sweet. Sometimes does are more of a handful than the bucks! :laugh:


Yeah, the biggest pain my my rear is my smallest doe, my mini-nubian, Kahlua. lol. She gives me way more trouble than my bucks ever have, haha!!!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

War Pony I got a big kick out of your toilet bowl brush idea!

Baisically we teach bucks that we are the boss. I dont like to advocate the hot shot but you know what it's a TOOL, any tool used properly is effective.
I dont know about human females during the time of month Im way past that.
My friend usually wont go into buck pen without cattle prod & she has years of experience. I once walked into buck pen with her. She deciphered aggression. Before I knew it she had one on the ground. 
Dont ever take your eyes off him. Watch his body language & be super careful especially when you are his removing does.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Literally the ONLY problem I have had with my bucks (and I have had this one with ALL of them) is that they are so affectionate and sweet that they beg for cuddles even when they stink to high heaven in rut. They get so sad if I won't give them skritches that I bought a toilet bowl brush so I could reach through the fence and scratch and rub them with it to make them happy without getting musky goat pee all over my hands and clothes.[/QUOTE]
:laugh::ROFL: That is my buck. I would never be able to flip a 250# buck. He gets so upset being stinky when all he wants is his jowls scratched. I'd give in then go shower and do laundry. LOVE the toilet brush idea!! Going to have to try that.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

WarPony said:


> I bought a toilet bowl brush so I could reach through the fence and scratch and rub them with it to make them happy without getting musky goat pee all over my hands and clothes.


Love it! I will have to try one. My bucks I have now learned when they were young I don't take crap. Each and every one is a sweetheart and I wouldn't trade any of them for a doe. Don't get me wrong I love my does, but they never seem as sweet and cuddly as the bucks.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

All I know is he dosent try and get me anymore so holding my hand for him to push on worked and he is as sweet as they come even in full rut. To each his own. I dont think bucks are cookie cutters just try a few things and see what works for the one you have. I did like the toilet brush idea. haha. Good one. They stick their heads through to get a nose rub whenever Im out there but they stink so bad right now I cant bring myself to do it.


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

In general Midnight is a sweetheart. He loves to be scratched. He did go into rut for several months this fall, but hasn't stunk for well over a month now. While he did stink I would itch every time I touched him so I avoided it as much as possible, but as soon as he stopped stinking I stopped itching. I will have to remember the toilet brush idea for next rut season. My only problem with him right now is he keeps harassing the does (first hole for a new fenced area was drilled today),and he just seems to think I am part of his harem right now.

My oldest doe was really a handful about the time she turned 1 year old (guessing as no one knows when she was born). On the advice of another rancher I got a stick and let her horns have it. She now knows I am the queen and she is a sweetheart. My youngest doe is always a sweetheart and really wants to snuggle up to me but the others push her around. Then in a separate herd I have 3 boys (1 wether-6 mths and future twin wethers-3mths) who follow me around crying "maaa maaa maaaa".

I had to run to town to get hay today as I didn't have enough to last over the holidays. We purchased some poly pipe while there. Much cheaper than a cattle prod so I am trying that first. Of course today when I went into the paddock to deliver some alfalfa he was a perfect gentleman, possibly due to hunger. He seemed more interested in the alfalfa then me.


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

A couple of thoughts.
I mentioned this on another thread: Consider that there should be some very tasty recipes on the internet somewhere for Caribbean or Jamaican stews that get better with strong herbs, peppers and stinky buck in them! Bad bucks can always "get wheels" :goattruck: 
Or "go to freezer camp." :snowbounce: 
Just a thought. 

I used to go to oxen-droving workshops and the oxen-handlers tell you NEVER to play with a horned animal's horns :hair: -- the horns are his (or her) weapons, and horned animals don't like people messing with their weapons -- touching their horns is like challenging them to a duel! :whatgoat::angry::crazy::veryangry:

With sheep, throwing the food down and turning away to leave them while they are staring at you lets them think that you are surrendering to their superior power and will always defer to them in this way. In the future, if you don't immediately feed them and/or run away, they will feel obligated to enforce their superiority by charging or jumping on you. 
:whatgoat::book: :laugh:
You've unwittingly set up a confrontational situation (this is not just "you" -- I learned this from an agricultural professor who learned this late in life, that she and her children were training their male ruminants to be aggressive!) For this reason, when you feed them, wait until they are totally involved in the food and no longer staring at you before you retreat. 
:cake:

THINGS THAT DO WORK:
Someone else mentioned making them back up. When they start to get snippy or bossy as youngsters, practice charging right at them and making them back up! :whatgoat: 
And remember to chase them a little bit to keep them on their toes. Let them know that you are NOT bluffing. You may not need to touch them if they think you are serious about chasing them away. 
It IS better to be respected than to be loved. It is certainly safer. 

I find a rubber bucket helpful in bopping a male animal on the nose. :dazed: 
I sometimes chase at male animals facing me with an insolent look in their eyes. A shepherd's crook can add 5 ft to your reach and the crook at the end can be hooked around the neck or legs and used to keep that animal at a distance or turn it away from you. A good fiberglass crook is available from Premier One fencing (and sheep and goat supply) -- mine has lasted over 10 years and I mistreat it terribly and forget and leave it out in the sun or snow. It is also handy to have a cane or a crook to lean on if you are limping after wrestling a 350 lb ram or buck. Some of us forget that we are not so young or able-bodied, and need "assistive devices." :hammer: :wallbang: :shrug:

Bottle babies are a lot harder to intimidate, but still need to learn manners.:kidred:

The cattle prod sounds useful. I'm just used to using other methods, and also I live in the Northeast where the population pressure is intense, and overwhelming numbers of ignorant, whining alleged-animal-lovers are likely to see it and throw a fit. If it is available in your area, sounds like a plan. :cowboy:

And remember, that bad buck can always get wheels, :goattruck:
or go to freezer camp. :snowbounce:
I can't find an emoticon for eating BBQ!


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I am not even close to giving up on Midnight. He just has this one issue. In general he is a good boy, just dealing with his teenage hormones. When I go to the gate I make him get down before I will open it. He knows as long as he is standing on the gate I won't open it. I use to have 3 goats standing on that gate but the girls have learned to stay off of it. Only Midnight is taking longer to learn this lesson. The day he got really bad I was cleaning out the hay feeder, not feeding them. A lot of alfalfa sticks had piled up in it and I was removing those sticks. I was pushing the wheel barrow over to a corner of the paddock where I am dumping them in a pile to compost. He tried to mount me while I was pushing the wheel barrow. My ranch partner was there and he let Midnight know that behavior was not allowed. 

We picked up a nice sturdy thick poly pipe and it is resting next to the gate. Next sign of bad behavior and he will get a good wallop. 

I know he can learn. He chases the girls away from the grain and eats it all. Nothing I tried worked so I finally started chaining him to the fence by his own feed trough which hangs off the fence. Now the girls can eat in peace. He inhales his food and of course wants loose ASAP but has learned pulling on the chain is useless. He now waits tell I come back to free him. He has even learned to stand their calmly until I say "okay". That word tells him he can run over and check the girl's feed troughs for anything they left.

I think he is just in an adolescent rebellious stage and needs to learn who's the boss. He will learn. I think I probably should go in there occasionally just to work on his behavior. Lately I have been so busy and just want to get in and finish whatever it was I went in there to do. Maybe my rushing is part of the problem. I am sure he doesn't know or care about everything I have been going through.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

butch-7 said:


> all goat herders learn if they stay in long enough......there are 2 factors w/herdsmen.....a buck is not to be played with first rule.....he is 1/2 your herd you can ruin him forever or bred him forever....make a bullet proof pen for him and a wether mate for him to play with all his life.....this little voice is telling me to shut up butttttttttt i hate to see someone get hurt.....there is no male animal on earth that cant smell a female in heat .....it can be through your period days or your short 3 day ovaolation[cant spell].....a buck is next to a stud horse that have killed their girl owners down through the years.....it doesent take long to ruin a good buck when hes a kid.....10mins of over petting or pushing on his head its done .....water squrting ele stick all these things only sets you up for the dayyyy.....my 2 cents....good luck.....butch


I am confused. You are saying male goats are dangerous but you also seem to be saying that people who discipline their bucks through either water squirting or a stick is a bad thing?? So which is it?? What exactly is the alternative if you dont think we should be squirting them with water or hitting with a stick?

And I am sorry but I have to disagree with two points here.

1) I am a female and I have worked all my life with bucks, rams, bulls, stallions, male emu and several wildlife species and never have I had any indication that any of these animals including my two teenage bucks now in full rut (ex bottle babies with horns) can pick up on my 'cycles', be it when I am ovulating (and I happen to know) or when I am menstruating. I believe this to be an old wives tale as I have NEVER had problems handling male animals at 'that time of the month' and seeing behaviour changes in them.

2) A buck is not to be played with. I have always disagreed with people who say not to pat buck kids or bucks, these are usually the same people who feed from outside their buck pen, never go in there with the buck, will lock the buck into his shed or tie him to the fence when they need to go in to clean the pen etc. To me, this approach leads to a skittish buck who is not only not used to being handled but more frequently, a buck who is frustrated from lack of human interaction and affection. We all know how much goats enjoy human interaction, and to deny a buck that just leads to a loney, frustrated buck. And a frustrated buck is an aggressive and destructive buck in my experience.

I raise my bucks with equal doses of love, affection, respect and firm but fair discipline. When they are babies, I treat them as such. When they grow and even in rut I spend time with them every day, in their pen, patting them and loving on them. My boys have some wicked horns on them but I am not in the least bit concerned since they have been brought up with clear boundaries. Because I have disciplined them, they respect those boundaries and know what happens if they cross them. Because I show them affection when they behave, they are more likely to behave. By raising bucks in this way I find them respectful, affectionate and easy to handle.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

Texas.girl said:


> I have noticed for some time my buck, Midnight, has been affectionate towardme.hlala: He ignores his ear being pulled andonly flinches at being hit on the horns with a stick and/or yelled at. Basically my male ranch partner has toprotect me from Midnights advances towards me. If he is not in the paddock with me Midnight, who is about 8 months old,keeps his head on my leg flirting with me. All my efforts to get him to stop keepfailing. Today, even though my ranchpartner was armed with a stick trying to protect me, Midnight tried to mountme. I really would like to go inside thepaddock alone without being courted by a buck. Anyone else experience this problem and how did you solve it? Not sure if it relevant, but his mommaabandoned him and he was raised on the bottle.


Good luck with that!! I have a buck that tries to mount every single thing infront of him. Lol


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## butch-7 (Sep 20, 2012)

*keren you are the exception*

remember that little voice telling me to shut up well.....i always side on the safe side of animals......its very hard not to love on these little buck kids.....as your answer said you have many years experence.....newbies i caution w/out your experence......i got a call a year ago.....a 65yr old nurse friend of mine was in the hosp w/mult breaks plates in her leg and arm.....this is a horse woman and a pretty good one....raises sheep about 50 most of time.....had a 2yr ram never a bit of trouble......let the ram stay w/girls all the time she was out looking over her herd....walked back to her barn didnt see ram.....he hit her in leg broke it first hit she said he was killing her against barn was almost knocked out when she call 911 on cel her brother heard her yelling and got the ram off her.....a friend asked me to remove ram before she got out of hosp...... this scares me when to give advice to newbies....like i said safe.....whatever you think about the smell had this happen to many times had 25 app-qt horses....2 studs standing....alot of lady horse people out there.....bred a few hundred outside mares not to mench 20 mares of my own each year or so.....saw too many times a young lady hanging on studs stall he was pitching fit w/standing mare on one side and her on the other i would remove the lady.... stud straightened up got back to work w/mare .......i knew i would get flax but i would rather plant the seed of safety by what i say than not.....sorry im new to this sight and your an experenced handler i in no way disagree w/you but everyone is not you.....when i reply ist only my experence hope everyone has a great year goatherding and merrychristmas.....later butch


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

butch-7 said:


> remember that little voice telling me to shut up well.....i always side on the safe side of animals......its very hard not to love on these little buck kids.....as your answer said you have many years experence.....newbies i caution w/out your experence......i got a call a year ago.....a 65yr old nurse friend of mine was in the hosp w/mult breaks plates in her leg and arm.....this is a horse woman and a pretty good one....raises sheep about 50 most of time.....had a 2yr ram never a bit of trouble......let the ram stay w/girls all the time she was out looking over her herd....walked back to her barn didnt see ram.....he hit her in leg broke it first hit she said he was killing her against barn was almost knocked out when she call 911 on cel her brother heard her yelling and got the ram off her.....a friend asked me to remove ram before she got out of hosp...... this scares me when to give advice to newbies....like i said safe.....whatever you think about the smell had this happen to many times had 25 app-qt horses....2 studs standing....alot of lady horse people out there.....bred a few hundred outside mares not to mench 20 mares of my own each year or so.....saw too many times a young lady hanging on studs stall he was pitching fit w/standing mare on one side and her on the other i would remove the lady.... stud straightened up got back to work w/mare .......i knew i would get flax but i would rather plant the seed of safety by what i say than not.....sorry im new to this sight and your an experenced handler i in no way disagree w/you but everyone is not you.....when i reply ist only my experence hope everyone has a great year goatherding and merrychristmas.....later butch


butch i guess i am just having a hard time finding advice in your posts. other than saying that male animals can be dangerous which i of course agree with you dont seem to offer advice for the novice buck owner. would ypu advise all beginners to not keep a buck? it is.not practical for sll of us to take them to an outside stud, myself included. i got my first bucks the year after i got my fitst does. i read a lot and learned by experience and made mistakes like everyone does and came to forums for advice and that is the only way anyone will learn the buck.msnagement practices that besy suit their unique situation.


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## emilieanne (Oct 15, 2012)

There is one thing that I found to work a little bit, keep in mind, my buck that does that is verrrrry bad. When I would be out stepping on hot peppers and it'd get on my pants then go in his pen, he'd go out his head on my leg and he would run away. That and if I let the dog in with me when I went in, the dog would be by my side so that he could not get near me.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

oh laura and arkie..you two crack me up..lol..i love this place..


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

keren said:


> And I am sorry but I have to disagree with two points here.
> 
> 2) A buck is not to be played with.


I think most of us, at least I was, when stating a buck is not to be played with meant don't take crap from an aggressive buck. I don't and won't play with a buck being aggressive towards me or anyone else who comes to my farm. However, I do play with my buck from birth to full grown. They do need love and affection - that is how you raise a friendly goat. Most buck from my experience are more loving than the does that I have had. I encourage all owners to play with their bucks but to do so in a safe and responsible manner.


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## Squires (Sep 14, 2010)

butch-7 said:


> .a 65yr old nurse friend of mine was in the hosp w/mult breaks plates in her leg and arm.....this is a horse woman and a pretty good one....raises sheep about 50 most of time.....had a 2yr ram never a bit of trouble.


Hi Butch!
I'm not here to bash at you with my secret weapon -- the rubber bucket  -- but need to point out that your 65 year old friend probably wasn't menstruating. As a "mature" female myself with experience of many cycles, I think that some women, sometimes, get a little irritable or feeling vulnerable during parts of their cycle and may act differently sometimes - -and that can sometimes cause other critters to react differently- -that's my theory. It's not the cycle, it's the behavior. The behavior can occur even when hormones are almost non-existent.

I once sold a tame-enough-to-me stud ram to a mature couple who knew their livestock (he was a butcher, they bred livestock for years) and that ram decided that he would not let the woman tend to a newborn lamb in his pasture - - they had never seen a ram that guarded newborn lambs before! The woman was past the age of cycling, but that ram chased her! He was respectful to her husband who had a bit more bluster to his walk (as do I , I suppose).

I have both bucks and rams. The extension agents here recommend that newbies buy a ram-lamb or a buckling, use him once for breeding, and then eat him. Bad studs "get wheels" fast. Taste good with Hoisin sauce or BBQ.
:goattruck:

It takes both book knowledge and experience to enable a person to handle bucks and rams (and stallions, I presume) safely. 
:book::whatgoat:

Rams are especially tricky -- the bottle-raised or super-tame rams sometimes lead you to let your guard down and then one day they just have a hormonal moment and their brains are not there and they go into terminator mode. YES they are dangerous.

Bucks seem to be more emotional and expressive -- or it could just be the ones that I have met so far - being mostly sons of dairy does. They need to be taught not to jump on people and not to rub their faces and horns on them! Horns are especially tricky.hlala::crazy:

Some people think they can keep the upper hand by keeping the bucks or rams unsocialized to humans and so the beast is not going to sneak up looking for treats in their back pockets and they keep their guard up when one approaches. Sometimes I put bells on my males so I can hear them coming. Different things work for different people or different situations.

I have a huge Ile de France ram who is my best buddy. Still, I do not turn my back on him when he is in rutt, because a ram is not thinking when it goes hormonal and charges at someone -- it is on automatic pilot and unaware that it is stomping its best buddy into little bitty pieces. That is a fact, and I have refused to sell adult rams to newbies because they often don't "get it" even when they think they do. People with cows or horses think a 350 lb animal is small and insignificant -- they are wrong, as your friend can now testify.

BTW, I had a goat and sheep specialist from Cornell University visit my farm and state that I had the best trained animals. I actually have garden chairs in some paddocks and pens, and sit around with my animals and insist that they behave. Now and then I will take a few grains of corn out of my pocket for my animals, and maybe have three or four standing in front of me, knowing that if they politely wait their turn, they will each get a little taste, but if they mob me, no one gets anything. They will get smacked and I will turn away from them if they try to reach for my pockets. They wear collars and learn to let me lead them by the collar and get a random unexpected treat sometimes. In an emergency I can grab one by a collar and clip it to a fence. Once a dog attacked my ram and he came running up to hide behind me! (YIKES! I do not recommend that at all!).

I learned from the Fias Co Farm site that goats LOVE raisins! Great training treat! Goats will do ANYTHING for a raisin! 

For those that choose to become friendly and socialize their bucks and rams, it is important to teach them NOT to jump on people, NOT to sneak up on people, to back off when you tell them to, and to wait until you choose to feed them. Most of my males can be called by rattling a bucket and know that I will give them an occasional treat if they walk nicely beside me until we get to wherever we are going and I give them their share of grain. They are trainable like dogs. I still do not turn my backs to them in breeding season. Exception being my little Nigerian buck who is always rarin' to go and still very polite. Part of it is training.

The people AND the buck or ram need training. onder:

That sweet little ten pound kid needs to learn NOT to jump on you unless asked or picked up, and then you have to unlearn the being picked up when they get a little bigger.

BTW, Midnight sounds like he is pretty good but not quite "polished" in his manners, that is all. He does need to learn before he gets older or larger.
JMHO


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

mjgh06 said:


> I think most of us, at least I was, when stating a buck is not to be played with meant don't take crap from an aggressive buck. I don't and won't play with a buck being aggressive towards me or anyone else who comes to my farm. However, I do play with my buck from birth to full grown. They do need love and affection - that is how you raise a friendly goat. Most buck from my experience are more loving than the does that I have had. I encourage all owners to play with their bucks but to do so in a safe and responsible manner.


I think this depends on what you mean by "play". I have never ever EVER "played" with my bucks, by what *I* consider play, but as i said above I adore my bucks and they adore me. I cuddle them, give then skritches and scratches and pets, but I never ever "play" with them. I don't let them push on me, climb on me, push me around, anything like that.

When i handle them at all I expect them to act like gentlemen. At all times. NO exceptions. From day one. On a lead they are never allowed to pull, push or otherwise try to tell ME what to do. When they are off a lead they are never allowed to climb on me or push me around or crowd me. If they try they get a firm reprimand. I'm working on stopping the crowding me at feeding time with my meat breed buck right now, before he gets huge.

I give my bucks a wether friend of similar size to be their "bro". They can climb, head butt, and rough house all they want with each other but never ever with a human.


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Also, I can't find it on line but many years ago (before the internet, now my age is showing) a college published a study where they took the scent of fertile females of various species and tested the reactions of males of various species and the males only reacted "enthusiastically" to the scents of fertile females of their own or genetically similar species (a horse would react, though not as strongly, to a fertile donkey and zebra, but not to say.... a fertile cow or monkey or human). None of the animals tested reacted to the scent of a female human with arousal or aggression. At most they reacted with confusion the same way they did with any other smell they were not accustomed to in their environment. Wish I could find the report online but I can't remember what college it was or what the study was called. It was like 30 years ago.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

I never let my horse get the better of me regardless of what she was 
doing ...came to me green broke and was a very flighty girl .
She needed a firm but positive hand in her training .
What was "trained" for me may not be trained enough for someone 
else , but she was perfect for for me .
I wouldn't let her drag me around ever. I never let a dog pull on a leash.
I find that rude and it can be dangerous to all involved. 
I" ll be darned if I let a dog pull on its leash I am holding !

I'm not sure I want a buck now , idk....
But I will be sure to the best of my ability , to manage this buck as any other animal I have owned. With respect and love but with a firm hand.
I dont let things get out of control , I know when their behaviors can lead to dangerous actions. Once a animal learns a action can get them a reward , regardless of what the "reward" is, it's tough to unteach it , but not impossible.
When teaching ground rules in the beginning , this is the foundations to all its training . Make sure they are understood and that they stick through out the animals life . 
Just my :2cents:


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

Trickyroo said:


> When teaching ground rules in the beginning , this is the foundations to all its training . Make sure they are understood and that they stick through out the animals life .
> Just my :2cents:


If that fails, there's always the "smack the taste right out of their mouth" option!:dazed:

Bob


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

That was my next plan of action :ROFL::ROFL:

Nice one Bob


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## pmckracken (Dec 22, 2012)

Like Randy Quaid said about his dog Snots in Christmas Vacation....if he latches on to you, it's best to just let him finish. lol


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

pmckracken said:


> Like Randy Quaid said about his dog Snots in Christmas Vacation....if he latches on to you, it's best to just let him finish. lol


:ROFL:


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## Goatwhisperer (Dec 31, 2021)

Texas.girl said:


> I have noticed for some time my buck, Midnight, has been affectionate towardme.hlala: He ignores his ear being pulled andonly flinches at being hit on the horns with a stick and/or yelled at. Basically my male ranch partner has toprotect me from Midnight's advances towards me. If he is not in the paddock with me Midnight, who is about 8 months old,keeps his head on my leg flirting with me. All my efforts to get him to stop keepfailing. Today, even though my ranchpartner was armed with a stick trying to protect me, Midnight tried to mountme. I really would like to go inside thepaddock alone without being courted by a buck. Anyone else experience this problem and how did you solve it? Not sure if it relevant
> 
> 
> Texas.girl said:
> ...


Mine won’t stop either no matter what I tried everything squirt gun he gets mad and rams me and really hurts me so now I gotta go feed again and I’m by myself so I just


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## Goatwhisperer (Dec 31, 2021)

pmckracken said:


> Like Randy Quaid said about his dog Snots in Christmas Vacation....if he latches on to you, it's best to just let him finish. lol


Lol that’s what I thought but mine is getting bad ripped my leggings he is too aggressive anymore then I have it all over my back and legs I tried squirt gun a pvc pipe that cause him to ram me and hurt me bad so I just let him now he pisses on me and humps me nonstop I don’t know what to do cause I don’t want to sell him...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Personally I'd either sell him or put him in the freezer.


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## Goatwhisperer (Dec 31, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> Personally I'd either sell him or put him in the freezer.


I know that’s probably what’s gonna have t do is sell him i really only need him one more year but he is big he’s probably 4 years old now and today he got me down and hurt me but because I can’t stop him I just let him finish he is a bully and today knocked me down and did it til he finished I was feedIng he butts me not hard then turned against me pissed on me and his face I tried to walk away and he hit me did it again so that’s 3 times on day usually it’s only once but he know he is dominant I think I have never had a buck shoot pee at me I didn’t know they can do that that’s worse than his other stuff stinks really bad


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Goatwhisperer said:


> today he got me down and hurt me


I'm sorry to be so blunt but this buck can not be sold. He needs to be processed. He has no respect for humans and I don't see that changing. Any one who buys him will have to deal with this behavior. You should not get in a pen with him at all. He needs his own pen and feed him from the out side until you can haul him off. He is going to hurt you bad and if you are alone. There will be no one to help you. This is not a game for him. At 4 years old..it will only get worse.


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## Goatwhisperer (Dec 31, 2021)

happybleats said:


> I'm sorry to be so blunt but this buck can not be sold. He needs to be processed. He has no respect for humans and I don't see that changing. Any one who buys him will have to deal with this behavior. You should not get in a pen with him at all. He needs his own pen and feed him from the out side until you can haul him off. He is going to hurt you bad and if you are alone. There will be no one to help you. This is not a game for him. At 4 years old..it will only get worse.


Ok I wish I would’ve read this earlier I answered it late and I agree the neighbor heard me screaming and helped me because when he hit me this time he did it and it was much worse he didn’t lightly do it when I went in hose in my hand and talking to him he put his head up did weird things with his mouth like flapping his lips and like laughing at me or something I sprayed him in the face and he immediately charged me hard kinda knocked me out 


happybleats said:


> I'm sorry to be so blunt but this buck can not be sold. He needs to be processed. He has no respect for humans and I don't see that changing. Any one who buys him will have to deal with this behavior. You should not get in a pen with him at all. He needs his own pen and feed him from the out side until you can haul him off. He is going to hurt you bad and if you are alone. There will be no one to help you. This is not a game for him. At 4 years old..it will only get worse.


Ok I am in a total agreement he cannot be fixed so
that’s gonna be the safest thing is to butcher him because the reason I took so long to answer was he got me bad and I even had a water hose in my hands this time and it happened again this time because of what he did earlier ripped my leggings and cut my leg pretty bad in the process With his foot I was sore and couldn’t move anyway he charged me knocked me off my feet and started slamming his head down on me I tried to grab his horns but he slammed my head and he walked away doing some weird things with his mouth put his head up in the air I’ve never seen him do this before it’s like he went crazy but then he came back and mounted me but wouldn’t let me move after he finished like normal he stood over me kept doing it thank goodness the man next door drove in I started screaming he ran over and got the buck off of me but he still mounted me 4-5 times and it really hurts but Usually when he finishes he leaves me alone for awhile but this time he actually got me but I don’t know what happened to him he was so sweet but he is done now.. sorry I’ve never had one do this and I came across this thread thanks for the advice


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## Goatwhisperer (Dec 31, 2021)

I think 


Goatwhisperer said:


> Ok I wish I would’ve read this earlier I answered it late and I agree the neighbor heard me screaming and helped me because when he hit me this time he did it and it was much worse he didn’t lightly do it when I went in hose in my hand and talking to him he put his head up did weird things with his mouth like flapping his lips and like laughing at me or something I sprayed him in the face and he immediately charged me hard kinda knocked me out
> 
> Ok I am in a total agreement he cannot be fixed so
> that’s gonna be the safest thing is to butcher him because the reason I took so long to answer was he got me bad and I even had a water hose in my hands this time and it happened again this time because of what he did earlier ripped my leggings and cut my leg pretty bad in the process With his foot I was sore and couldn’t move anyway he charged me knocked me off my feet and started slamming his head down on me I tried to grab his horns but he slammed my head and he walked away doing some weird things with his mouth put his head up in the air I’ve never seen him do this before it’s like he went crazy but then he came back and mounted me but wouldn’t let me move after he finished like normal he stood over me kept doing it thank goodness the man next door drove in I started screaming he ran over and got the buck off of me but he still mounted me 4-5 times and it really hurts but Usually when he finishes he leaves me alone for awhile but this time he actually got me but I don’t know what happened to him he was so sweet but he is done now.. sorry I’ve never had one do this and I came across this thread thanks for the advice I’m gonna go to the urgent care now I’m really nauseous and I answered twice don’t remember so I’m sorry for that


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Some bucks seem to change when they hit the age of 4 yrs. old. Most bucks at a sale barn are around 4. Please be very careful around your buck until you can
process him. So glad you weren't hurt worse. Bucks can hurt and even kill, no bloodline is worth that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree with everyone.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Goatwhisperer said:


> Ok I wish I would’ve read this earlier I answered it late and I agree the neighbor heard me screaming and helped me because when he hit me this time he did it and it was much worse he didn’t lightly do it when I went in hose in my hand and talking to him he put his head up did weird things with his mouth like flapping his lips and like laughing at me or something I sprayed him in the face and he immediately charged me hard kinda knocked me out
> 
> Ok I am in a total agreement he cannot be fixed so
> that’s gonna be the safest thing is to butcher him because the reason I took so long to answer was he got me bad and I even had a water hose in my hands this time and it happened again this time because of what he did earlier ripped my leggings and cut my leg pretty bad in the process With his foot I was sore and couldn’t move anyway he charged me knocked me off my feet and started slamming his head down on me I tried to grab his horns but he slammed my head and he walked away doing some weird things with his mouth put his head up in the air I’ve never seen him do this before it’s like he went crazy but then he came back and mounted me but wouldn’t let me move after he finished like normal he stood over me kept doing it thank goodness the man next door drove in I started screaming he ran over and got the buck off of me but he still mounted me 4-5 times and it really hurts but Usually when he finishes he leaves me alone for awhile but this time he actually got me but I don’t know what happened to him he was so sweet but he is done now.. sorry I’ve never had one do this and I came across this thread thanks for the advice


we would not be feeding this jerk dinner... he would be eight ft deep Covered in lime!


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Texas.girl said:


> I have noticed for some time my buck, Midnight, has been affectionate towardme.hlala: He ignores his ear being pulled andonly flinches at being hit on the horns with a stick and/or yelled at. Basically my male ranch partner has toprotect me from Midnight's advances towards me. If he is not in the paddock with me Midnight, who is about 8 months old,keeps his head on my leg flirting with me. All my efforts to get him to stop keepfailing. Today, even though my ranchpartner was armed with a stick trying to protect me, Midnight tried to mountme. I really would like to go inside thepaddock alone without being courted by a buck. Anyone else experience this problem and how did you solve it? Not sure if it relevant, but his mommaabandoned him and he was raised on the bottle.


Vintage water bottle


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

nancy d said:


> Smacking any goat on the head or horns isnt going to solve anything except them taking it as a challenge.
> Youre going to have to throw this buck down. Grab opposite legs, a front & back one & sit on him till he relaxes.
> Hopefully you can do it in one swift motion so he wont know what happened till he's down. And it may take more than once.


I did this with my bucks when they were young because I learned it with foals years ago. I do like a vinegar bottle but when you don't have anything and it comes down to it it's time. And you do want to do it while he's young enough that you can.


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## GodwardGoatGang (4 mo ago)

firelight27 said:


> I tried a cattle prod on a sheep once because it refused to walk on it's lead one day. It just jumped straight up in the air and still refused to walk. Lol. But sheep are dumb, goats are smart little buggers. I'm just reading this thinking...man if I said this stuff in front of people today they would be appalled. They might even call the sheriff and send them to my house in fear that I'm an animal abuser. If you told someone on a horse forum to do this sort of thing you'd have people gathering a lynch mob...The world is so PC these days! I'm glad people on this forum aren't so sensitive and realize that sometimes you just gotta whack the dang beasties!


You're right! Goat folk are more refreshing and down to earth in my experience. There are a real challenge and not for the faint of heart. It's funny how I live with a brother that thinks that they're good behavior comes naturally LOL, he sees and witnesses zero of my training with my animals I'm just assumes that they came that way...🤦 Well yesterday he witnessed the first time I hose down a goat and it was because I got a new boy that's humping the humans. Wasn't real shocking to me but I knew what to do and he thought I was being abusive 😂... Good thing he didn't see my techniques before I figured out water was the way to go! I'm doing a lot of correction from my first month or two with my goats and now I have two new ones and I'm getting softer all the time but, we have to change it up for the bucks don't we know it! Very grateful to have found all of you in this forum spot. 🙏😅🙌


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## GodwardGoatGang (4 mo ago)

mjgh06 said:


> Anyone anysize can throw a goat down if you do it right. I am 5'7 and 135lbs and have been able to throw down a full grown boer. Nancy was right in how to do it -
> 
> I've taught it to me sister in law who is only 5'3 and plan on teaching my daughter when she's 10.
> 
> Don't let your buck get the upper hand thinking he is more dominant than you. Especially at 8 months. It will only get worse. Another thing to do is when he goes to bleat at you, grab his mouth/nose as hard as you can , don't let go and pop him really good on the nose.


And guys for flipping goats, the packing goat guy on YouTube, he is a technique for flipping goats I think that has less to do with their weight and more to do with technique of grabbing feet. He's a very good instructor and teacher and very thorough in his explanations of things. I learn well from people like that. He's on YouTube I will check him out for flipping goats that are aggressive. Bucks I mean of course. Good luck! I know you will establish your position properly. I think in their heart of hearts they want to please us and be in the right position in the first place. Aren't we all just looking for a place anyways? LOL sometimes we just have to help them along💖🐐🙏


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