# Questions



## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

If I were to train and sell a cart and pack goat how many people would buy it do you think.


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

Houdini said:


> If I were to train and sell a cart and pack goat how many people would buy it do you think.


Just one...


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Counter questions

How much experience in breeding, raising and training a working goat do you have? How much money do you want to make? At which age would you sell?


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

They would be my first baby's that my goat has and I don't know how much I would sell for that's why I asked my goats wouldn't be scared of really anything. My momma stands next to us when we shoot a shot gun. She follows horses cars and people I am training her to be a cart goat and she doesn't mined packing. She lives in all weather and has been in the mountains and loves it. She prefers people over goats. And for entertainment i have taught her tricks and to jump into a car on command for ease. Her baby's will have all the same training and experience as their mommy. So how much would you say I should sell them for I'm not very experience just starting. Oh and they will be full Nubian and if a girl trained to be milked as well.
I will sell when fully trained so 2 maybe 3 if my mom let's me. I'm only 16.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

TOU said:


> Just one...


That is funny lol


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Nubians don't have a very good reputation as packers. They can also have problematic conformation. So, not a breed/cross that would sell easy as packgoat.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Well if trained good how well would they sell


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

In nubians it's not about training, it's about work attitude. Many nubians have a poor work attitude that training can't alter.

Also, if they have a poor backline, you can train until they are pink, it won't change the backline.

Next thing: the more you train, the higher your price has to be. If you want to sell at 2-3 what? years, months? - let's say years - you will have accumulated so much costs in feed and training hours that a realistic price would be something no one in the goat world would be willing to pay. People don't pay theses prices for horses, nowadays, much less for goats.

The established packgoat breeders have breeding stock that has been screened for passing on working traits and they offer to take back a goat that won't pack. You haven't done the first and most likely can't offer the latter, economy is down, trained packgoats are on the market for months, goat packing is in danger of becoming restricted - think REALLY hard!


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

It sounds like you have a great nubian doe. Sanhester is right. Goat packers are not usually looking for Nubians. Unfortunately as a general rule it has been noted that only around 10% of the nubians will work and they can be noisy. Goat packers need reliable very hard working goats that won't quit when the going gets rough. There is no money to be made breeding nubians as packgoats but with the work you are putting into training you will be able to find a nice home for them where some one make pack a picnic lunch and go for a hike with them. Good luck


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks so much I was planning on not keeping them full Nubian. But mixing with goats more fit for the job.

Another question I was wondering, would people be willing to pay for there goat to be tamed and trained to either, pull a cart, pack or do tricks or all of the above?


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

What kind of goat would be better suited to pack then? Just wondering  and one that is good for packing would it be good for pulling a cart?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

check the packgoat conformation threat here on TGS


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Just because Nubians have a reputation for loud, lazy behavior doesn't mean they are all that way, nor that the crosses will be that way, so don't be discouraged. One thing in the Nubians' favor is their loud coloring, which is a huge plus if you train your goats to pull carts and go in parades. Another nice feature is their long legs, which allows them to cover more ground than the swiss breeds. The also have fewer problems with heat if you're hiking in warmer climates. 

Purebred Boers don't have a good reputation for packing either because of laziness and poor working conformation, and yet this is one of the breeds that people will specifically introduce into their working goat lines in order to add muscle and bone.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks for your comment there for a while I though nothing I did would work to sell the baby's thanks. 
so if I am to bred my nubian, what do you suggest I should bred her to she is much bigger in muscle then any other Nubian I know.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

If I were to breed my Nubian: tall curious independent loves people very agile and strong with a kiko buck.
Then next year breed her baby to a boer and then breed that baby to a Saanan. 
Would I get a tall muscular goat that is easy to train agile a good worker and loves people that has pretty colors and floppy ears and is quieter?

Would that goat be suited to pack and pull carts?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Houdini said:


> If I were to breed my Nubian: tall curious independent loves people very agile and strong with a kiko buck.
> Then next year breed her baby to a boer and then breed that baby to a Saanan.
> Would I get a tall muscular goat that is easy to train agile a good worker and loves people that has pretty colors and floppy ears and is quieter?
> 
> Would that goat be suited to pack and pull carts?


simple answer? No!

Oh, if genetics only were that simple. I appreciate that you're enthusiastic about your goal but it just isn't like opening a pack of crayons and paint the goat you want.

For example: I've started with a strong built but short legged saanen-boer-cross doe. I have bred her to

- tall, strong boer/dairy cross buck
- purebred saanen
- alpine

I wanted to keep her good rump and backline but get rid of her short legs. With all of the bucks the short legs prevailed.

Then I bred her slightly larger daughter to a long legged alpine/toggi cross. Again, the lambs have the sturdy legs of the grandmother, just slightly longer and I got rid of a few minor conformation flaws in the hindlegs. But still, smaller than my average goats.

This is the effort of three generations, spanning in total 10 lambs just from that doe (I have several more). What are you planning to do with the failures that you get from your breeding plans? What, if all you get are bucks and you would need to buy additional does?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Houdini said:


> If I were to breed my Nubian: tall curious independent loves people very agile and strong with a kiko buck.
> Then next year breed her baby to a boer and then breed that baby to a Saanan.
> Would I get a tall muscular goat that is easy to train agile a good worker and loves people that has pretty colors and floppy ears and is quieter?
> 
> Would that goat be suited to pack and pull carts?


HA! I agree with Sanhestar--it would be nice if breeding were that simple! Sounds like you've got a very nice Nubian, and she could well produce babies that will be good working goats, but don't count on it. Breed for the babies YOU want. Find a buck YOU like. Don't try to breed for goats you think someone somewhere will buy someday. You don't necessarily know what everyone else is looking for, nor is there any guarantee the babies will come out how you imagined.

But if your doe is nice and you breed to a nice buck, whether he's a Nubian or some other breed, your babies should come out alright. If you stick with dairy breeds, the offspring will probably be more desirable than if you cross with a meat goat, especially if you get doe kids. Keep in mind that more people are looking for dairy goats than work goats, and dairy lines can still be registered with ADGA even if they are crossed.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Thank you some one just told me that Nubians wouldn't sell very good so I was trying to make a better goat that others would want. The little failures would be sold as pets or little trick goats they are fun. 
I know that what I plan would take more then a few generations I also know that most won't come out as planed but do you think I would be able to get a good well shaped goat by mixing those breeds?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Do you have already a market, meaning BUYERS, for the pet goats or the trick goats? I don't know how it is in the US but imagine that it won't be that much different from here. There's a surplus of goats that were produced to become pets and are now unwanted, neglected, being sold to be butchered or simply abandoned because they are no longer cute.

Do you want this for the lambs YOU produce and YOU have no need for? Breeding animals is not only about the fun and the money but also about the responsibility towards a life that you called into this world.

And again, no, I don't think that you would get a well shaped goat by randomly mixing these breeds.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

I kindof have a market some people keep asking me for her baby's and they love to see the tricks and thing that they do. I also want a good cart goat that can also pack for other things.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If your doe is nice enough that people already want her babies, great! Find a buck that you think compliments your doe. Personally, I'd stick with crossing dairy breeds since the doe offspring may be more desirable as milkers, but of course that's up to you. Once again, breed to a buck YOU like and that you think will throw kids you would want in your own herd. 

With time and patience, almost any goat can be trained to pull a cart and pack for you as long as they are sound and healthy. Some may take more time and patience than others, but it's worth it for a goat you love. Some individuals may have conformation that keeps them from being the work machines you see in professional pack strings, but this won't keep them from being an excellent companion who carries lighter loads on day hikes or who pulls a cart in parades.


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks it is true my doe is amazing and I love her very much she is the only goat I have right now. So she has been taught everything: first to do tricks then to pack and now to pull a cart and she's doing wonderful. We are finishing the reining training after just a week! And thanks again for your comments


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Which goat breed is the tallest?


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