# Should I question the health of these puppies?



## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

We have a reservation for a GP puppy. I got an email from the breeder today saying that 3 of the female puppies had past away. They will be 4 weeks this weekend. They believe it was because of the dog's large litter (11) and it being her first litter. I have never breed dogs before and don't know if this is normal. Insights? I just want to make sure I'm not making an uninformed decision.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you been to the house to see the dogs? Have you seen the mother? I would want to see the place and the dogs. I guess I'm wondering why you wouldn't realize not everyone is being fed and start bottle feeding some of the pups. But I don't know the experience of the breeders.


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## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

No, we are going in 4 weeks when we pick out our puppy. We will have two to choose from at that point. I believe they are very experienced breeders. They have been very professional every step of the way and I have been very pleased. We are too far away to just go for a quick visit. In the beginning she told me that the first 2 weeks are very critical because they are so small and the mother is so large that she can accidentally lay on them an smoother them. So I was shocked to hear they lost 3 at 4 weeks. I really have no experience breeding.. my only experience was when I worked in a shelter and one of our dogs had 13 puppies. We lost one very early on. This is just a very expensive investment for us. We have already put in a deposit.


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## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

She said the remaining puppies are healthy and adapting well


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

did you ask what the pups died from? starvation at 4 weeks seems highly unlikely


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## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

Oh excuse me they will be 5 weeks this weekend... not 4. They turned 4 weeks this past Saturday


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

There are many factors. People can sound very professional but seeing is believing. As for smothering we always used a 'pig rail' basically a 2x4 inside the lower portion of the whelp box for that reason. If a pup got behind mom there was a space where she wouldn't smother. I'd ask if they know the reason they lost so many or if they had a vet do a necropsy. I'd get references for sure. Ask what type of health routine she does for her dogs. For example, my show dogs, had CERF registration -(eyes certified free of defects) yearly, they had their hips and elbows OFA certified (since hip and elbow dysplasia is common in labs and can be hereditary). I don't know how many LGD breeders do any hip certifications or not. Just some questions to ask. I had a dog 4h group and we did a lot of seminars for teaching people about things to include what to look for in a breeder.


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## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

She said "We believe it was because she had such a large littler and being a first time bother"


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

so she laid on them or she didnt feed them? seems a bit odd of an answer no clear cut reason why


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## FreckledFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

The parents are OFA certified. So I have seen all of that information. And I believe both parents have CERF registration. I will have to go back and check. They breed for show and LGD. We are under contract so I am able to return the dog if the vet finds that they are in bad health but I would really like to avoid having to deal with that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad you have a contract, that is a good thing to have just in case.


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## alpine_fan (Jan 6, 2013)

I had a Great Pyrenees that had three litters of puppies the last was ten puppies
For all three litters she had them on her own and by the time we found the, they were warm and cozy.
We sold our for pets vs LGD simply because they would run constantly.
She had no problem feeding the last set of puppies even after we added one from our other batch...
I don't think it was starvation especially at 3 weeks and by then the mother should be capable of keeping track of where her puppies are since they should up and about on their own (ours managed to break down kiddie gates by then)
I would ask again is all...unless she is a very, very poor mother... :-/


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Although if this was her first litter, you never know. I guess when you go to pick one out, you can see. Can you back out of the deal if you aren't happy with something?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

FreckledFarmer said:


> The parents are OFA certified. So I have seen all of that information. And I believe both parents have CERF registration. I will have to go back and check. They breed for show and LGD. We are under contract so I am able to return the dog if the vet finds that they are in bad health but I would really like to avoid having to deal with that.


They sound like reliable breeders then. Good Luck


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## motdaugrnds (Mar 20, 2013)

I, too, would be more concerned as to the health "inside" the breeding pen as well as the mother. (I had a shepherd who once had 11 puppies. She literally divided them up into 2 groups and, while one slept, she fed the others. However, this took a toll on her health and she needed extra supplements in her food to keep her body strong.) I would ask if the breeder had a necropsy too; and if not, why not. Seems that breeder would want to know what caused the death of those pups; and I do not believe an experienced breeder would let her dogs be in a situation where the bitch could smother her pups. (Some breeders can talk a good show; but when you visit their place and see the size of their pens and their breeders, they do not look professional; so I would be careful about purchasing from that breeder. The fact you will have a contract is good; but I would read it carefully.)


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