# Will a "Tiny" ND kid grow up to be full size? *Continued Updates in comments*



## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

Hello! Not sure where to post this!

I am hoping to bring home 3 Nigerian Dwarf Doelings later this winter/early this spring. They have all been born this month and I am currently awaiting their owner to answer a few questions for me before I put a deposit on them.

One of the doelings is described as being "tiny", she is a twin and it seems both her and her brother are smaller than the other kids born this year. 

I'm looking for personal experience growing up a "tiny" doeling who become proper breeding size? My goal is for milk, so if she stays small I might not be able to find a tiny buck for her. 

I'm going to ask the owner more about this particular doeling but in the mean time, what are everyone's thoughts and experiences?

Thanks ♡


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What do they mean by tiny? What is the actual weight?


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Is she from a milking family?
Do you have a pic of mom and of mom's udder?
If mom is tiny, she'll probably be tiny.
I have several tiny goats from tiny mom's.
I use a ND buck. I wouldn't want to milk mine because their tiny teats would give me a hand cramp to milk.
Mine are not from milking bloodlines.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> What do they mean by tiny? What is the actual weight?


I'm really not sure. Weight wasn't included. In the email, just pictures and the words "she is a tiny goat", and I saw her brother listed for sale as a future wether or "small" ND buckling.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

alwaystj9 said:


> Is she from a milking family?
> Do you have a pic of mom and of mom's udder?
> If mom is tiny, she'll probably be tiny.
> I have several tiny goats from tiny mom's.
> ...


Yes they are from milking lines. I don't have pictures but I saw all of the mothers in person before they kidded and wouldn't describe any of them as small. They all seemed to be normal ND size.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

If you know for sure what the momma's udder and conformation is like, ask why these are tiny.
Was there a pregnancy issue or does the momma usually have small babies?
What does the buck look like?
I would have a talk with the breeder and look specifically at the momma of the twins before I bought her..
Especially as you have definite plans for what you want. 
My tiny goats are cute as the devil but not really milking type.
The birth weight on my tiny does' babies is usually up to 2 lbs. smaller than my regular size does' babies.
That doesn't really change as long as I am using an ND buck on full grown does.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

alwaystj9 said:


> If you know for sure what the momma's udder and conformation is like, ask why these are tiny.
> Was there a pregnancy issue or does the momma usually have small babies?
> What does the buck look like?
> I would have a talk with the breeder and look specifically at the momma of the twins before I bought her..
> ...


Thank you so much. I will ask more questions about this particular doeling.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

She may have been the runt. I would try to find out what tiny is. Do you have a pic with both the girls for size comparison? Sometimes the runt will catch up in size with time. But yea I'd ask about any issues. Nigerians are already smaller and having an even smaller one you may not want to deal with milking.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If smaller than the others, there is a chance the kid will stay smaller.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

I tried to get some pics showing the difference between a normal sized ND single baby and one of my tiny ND's.








Above is a 2 day old boy who is proportionally correct and will be about his mom's size, maybe a little bigger.








This is a day and a half old female who is proprtionally correct for its mama.
The tops of their butts are even or higher than their mama's point of elbow.








But when you compare these babies, the B&W is almost 3" shorter and about 1 1/2 lbs. lighter.
You can see Grandma in the background giving me the stinkeye, she's only an inch taller than her daughter.
I actually have 2 very different groups of NDs. I use the same buck for all.








I had hoped for better pictures but the does involved were refusing to be civil to each other and the white baby had the zoomies.
Barring illness or injury, the B&W baby will never catch up, size-wise, to the other.
Many of my twins are a pound or more different at birth with one noticeably larger. Usually by weaning time, though,
they are about the same size. And for some reason I do not have a single pic of any of my twins together.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

Thank you all so much! I've asked the seller more questions and will probably not buy this doeling. I am going to go visit the farm soon and see all the kids


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Take a checklist of things to ask. It is so easy to get overwhelmed in the moment. 
If your goal is milking, then look for future milking quality does.
Remember that it will be a year before you can get to the milking part if you are buying kids.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Adorable and is smaller, but only time, good feed will tell.


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## Elbee (12 mo ago)

I've had a tiny doeling that was given to me at 1 week old. She came with lots of health problems that took a while to sort out. Her size as an adult was still petite for a ND. She was from great milking lines and did produce well and had a lovely udder.

This year I had a doeling from a quad birth that was miniscule. Didn't weigh her but took a pic with cell phone to reference her size. She is four months old now and as big as all the others her age. Looks like she'll do great.

If you're just getting started and these will be your foundation does, go for the best bred, healthiest girls you can find. My 2 cents! Good luck.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If she and her brother are claimed to simply be smaller then the other kids born this year then I would say that is probably to do with a bit of lack of feed for the dam IF the dam is a good sized doe. One of my smallest kids was 3 pounds at birth. Her mom got sick when she was heavy bred so resulted in very small kids. She had the fastest ADG and grew to be one of my larger sized does. I would for sure ask questions to make sure there isn’t something wrong with her. Ask if the breeder has kept track of how much she has gained. As for pictures of sire and dam.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

Thank you everyone! I went to the farm yesterday and asked lots of questions, got to meet all of the goats! 

I've decided to go with the 2 doelings that fit my farm goals the best, their moms are nice and wide with lovely udders. The plan is for them to stay with their dams until at least 10 weeks old, which is what I was hoping for as well!

For curiosity/in conclusion: The mother with the 2 small kids always gives small kids, I even got to see her 2 yearling does who are definitely smaller than their peers. The seller is bringing in a new buck this year to see if it helps her make bigger babies.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Always good to stick with your goals.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

To come full circle: I did bring home the "tiny" goat anyways! She caught up with her sisters quickly and isn't even the smallest anymore. I decided to buy her so I could bring home 3 goats, instead of 2. I feel better having 3, just in case something were to happen...I don't want anyone to be lonely.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is great.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

YAY.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

To keep this post updated. Now at 11 months old, one of my girls is 19" at the withers (and I decided to breed her- she is likely due to kid in April) and both of the other girls (the original tiny one included) are only 16" at the withers! I am hoping they reach 19", as I don't feel comfortable breeding them at this size. 

I've learned so much and continue to learn...I also have revisited their dams and feel that they are all on the smaller side of Nigerian Dwarf. I don't regret buying these girls (I love them!) but I do feel like I might be very disappointed if 2/3 never reach breeding size.


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## daisymay (Feb 13, 2017)

my ff had quads, two were tiny tiny, other two were normal sized. I ended up bottle feeding the two tiny ones(for a month). they were not even a pound. ended up selling them , one with papers(she was larger) to a 4-h family. Since they didnt want to spend alot i just sold one with papers.
Anyways, they are the size of their dam and they won champion and reserve at the fair both years. I regretted selling them, but at the time it was hard to bottle feed, working 12-13 hour shifts and i was exhausted from feeding at night.


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## Kaitlyn (Jan 20, 2021)

We were sold a doeling in February that was a runt. She is still extremely tiny, about 30 lbs, and her sister is still the size of a kid at almost a year old. It was disappointing when we realized we couldn’t breed her, so now we stay away from “small” kids. That being said, I’ve heard that some small kids can grow up to be normal breeding size. It all depends on feed, care and genetics.


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## SimplyDunnFarm (6 mo ago)

Rysktal said:


> Hello! Not sure where to post this!
> 
> I am hoping to bring home 3 Nigerian Dwarf Doelings later this winter/early this spring. They have all been born this month and I am currently awaiting their owner to answer a few questions for me before I put a deposit on them.
> 
> ...


From my experience tiny or 'petite' often times means stunted by coccidia... Not saying it is all the time the case, but I've bought more animals labeled as such that were actually just stunted due to improper management.
Stunted animals mean more complications during births because you are expecting a smaller animal (unable to reach full growth potential) to produce and spit out full sized kids. It just never ends good from what I've seen. 😔

❤ Helpful tips for you to reach your goal!:
When asking about animals be sure to ask current weight, health status, kidding history, disease testing history and results, their parasite prevention, and coccidia prevention methods and treatments done on young stock. A well documented breeder will have all of that information accessible to you, and that also means they hold their animals to a specific quality too. You might have to pay a bit more, but it is so worth it in the long run!


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

SimplyDunnFarm said:


> From my experience tiny or 'petite' often times means stunted by coccidia... Not saying it is all the time the case, but I've bought more animals labeled as such that were actually just stunted due to improper management.
> Stunted animals mean more complications during births because you are expecting a smaller animal (unable to reach full growth potential) to produce and spit out full sized kids. It just never ends good from what I've seen. 😔
> 
> ❤ Helpful tips for you to reach your goal!:
> When asking about animals be sure to ask current weight, health status, kidding history, disease testing history and results, their parasite prevention, and coccidia prevention methods and treatments done on young stock. A well documented breeder will have all of that information accessible to you, and that also means they hold their animals to a specific quality too. You might have to pay a bit more, but it is so worth it in the long run!


I had wondered about cocci. When I did the "tiny" ones fecal around 4 months old it did show up, I had the vet check as well and decided it wasn't an amount to worry about. I've been curious about it though!


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

My 3 most stunted doelings all had cocci issues when they were very young. Born years apart, from different families, all presented as undersized and pot bellied at 6 months of age. All had good famachas and fecals at 6 months. The only thing they really had in common were early and persistent cases of coccidia. That was over a 10 year period. I sold all 3 before they were yearlings, I don't know how they developed after that.


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

I had an a-ha moment when I realized, duh, my "tiny" girls have registered parents. I was able to use the registry and locate and talk to another breeder whose goats have very close relation to mine and ask questions about their sizes. Soooo I found out my girls have cousins that only reach 17" at 18 months old. This info has given me so much hope and peace that my girls will indeed keep on growing and be fine.


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

I am glad you were able to find that info, that's good to know!


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