# Anyone use Border collies for working goats?



## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

I have a few questions about using collies to work goats.I have one border collie and she is great working chickens and one of my goats,just one.
I have boers and my cousin got an alpine mix doe that is with my boers,the dog wont mess with the boers but loves to keep the alpine with the rest of the goats.She knows the boer does will charge her and she backs away from them.
Is there anyway to correct this?

She works with cattle some and wont back away from them,so i dont understand why she backs away from the goats.

I am thinking of getting another collie to see if they will work better together.
Is one collie working alone better or 2?


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

I use mine for hearding. How old is the dog? I can't answer as to whether another would help. A pup could learn from the older dog to stay away or not. Have you tried the dog one on one with a calmer boer?


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

Shes about 4 years old,im not exactly sure of age i got her from someone else,she "chased" his chickens.Most likely was just herding them.

I have tried to put her one on one with some of my gentle goats but she just sits and watches me do the work.She will herd them all if i am on the dirtbike herding with her though.She works her side and i work mine,cant give any commands while doing it this way though.She must think i am helping her instead of her doing it all when i use the bike,when i am in front she wont do anything but herd the alpine with the others.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2012)

A book "Lessons from a stock dog" by Bruce Fogt might help you.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have border collies for the cattle. I dont know about 2, we have 5 and 1 is a pup, and the problem we have is although the older ones will come back when they are told that pup keeps going or is late on comming back which then the other dogs join back in because they dont want to miss the fun, and its a on going yelling! Do you have a comand to make her work? Maybe if your comand is 'get em' you could keep useing it over and over and might get her excited and go for it with out backing off. (I hope this makes sense) I dont let the dogs work the goats, but with the cows they know if I scream 'kill em' thats when to give it your all.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

I have read all kinds of info about them and how they should work livestock,and she does it with my chickens, and the cows she is really aggressive to get them going,but the goats are a little more stubborn,its kinda like she dont want to get after them.Now the alpine she will work,but the alpine is more skidish than the boers.The boers kinda meander around, even if she nips their heels they dont move much.She knows some commands,and get em is one of them she knows what to do,i can get her to just "hold" them also,as long as she is working chickens she will do it.

Maybe if i get the other dog and he works them she may learn from him.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I noticed my heeler will back off a bit when the goats turn toward her. But not with other livestock. :scratch: We have another heeler pup that we just introduced to goats and i've noticed my other heeler has more confidence with the pup around. The puppy is a handful though...much more stubborn than my older dog so he's taking awhile to get ahang of it...right now he's more into just bouncing around the goats and playing then working them. :doh: He's almost a year old.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Do the goats have horns? Maybe the dog has been nailed by a goat before and now she is standoffish to the goats? Anyway you can teach the dog to herd in a 50' round pen to give the dog confidence in herding the goats. Possibly teach her with 3 or 4 young goats, until she build confidence. 

One time I had a very mean sheep who would charge any dog who came in the pen, so I got my two older dogs , one an aussie and one a BC, and put them both on the ewe. Neither one bit her but they gave her an attitude adjustment and we did not have problems with her charging everything.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah they have horns and she has been butted,but would fight the goats back when it happened.She got butted by accident though,just standing there looking at them my herd queen put it on her.The alpine she herds will charge her and she will go right back at that one and make her turn,but stand and look at the others.She has been kicked by a cow but didnt bother her,she still gets them.Maybe she is intimidated by the older more stubborn goats, they are harder to move and not flighty at all around dogs.

I would like to set up a pen to work her in more but dont have one right now,only square pastures and they will bunch in the corners of a square pen.

Oddly enough she will go nip their heels when they fight or the buck is trying to breed them,makes little sense to me.


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

By nature, most goats prefer to be led, rather than herded like sheep, so maybe that has something to do with it? :shrug:


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

yes,very good point,i alway notice that when i try to drive my goats they act very different than when i am in front of them.When i drive them they kinda scatter out,but when i lead they tend to follow single file *ish*.


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

I know someone who uses his border collies with his goats and does it very successfully. I have seen his dogs at work and they are great. He lets them outside a fenced area and the dogs keep the goats in the proper field and bring them home at night. 

He works with the dogs a lot and all his goats are aclimatized to them when they are young.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

That might be some of my goats issues with the dogs,they were raised with LGDs,not collies.They dont know how to act around them yet.


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## marthared (Oct 5, 2011)

My australian shephard (11 years old) is scared of my momma goat.. lol! When he turns his back she knows he's not looking and runs as fast as she can to butt him . He yelps and nips at her neck, but she definitely has the upper hand. He can be 50 feet away, so where close to her babies, and she'll charge him. She's a stinker when it comes to our aussie.
Just thought I'd share my herding dog story


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

yeah i keep my dogs away from any new mothers,they will run a person over to get that dog


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

Steve,

Your goats being raised with LGD's has nothing to do with not moving goats with herding dogs. Thousands of goats raised with 6-12 LGD's will still move for a herding dog.

Your dog either lacks confidence and experience, which could be built up; or most likely lacks the mental strength necessary. Many BC's are being bred from foundation animals that are too weak to move anything that isn't already broke. The most difficult of goats often need to be gripped to be moved the first time or two, and the sheep trial folks disqualify dogs that grip. 

And trust me, the trialler will brag about their dog "eye-ing" down any kind of stock, but many of their sticky-eyed trial dogs would be schiska-pups impaled on the horns of aggressive brush country ranch goats or cattle if they didn't run away tuck tailed or stand up and grip!

I regularly break groups of up to 300-400 goats with one dog on the ground. I may keep a spare dog to switch to when the other gets tired. A well broke group of 1000 head of goats is managable with one or two dogs.

Don't get a second dog for a small group. Make a sterilized pet of the inferior dog and purchase a dog that is already doing the kind of work you want, or is directly descended from dogs doing the work you want.

Goats can be lead and driven with equal success; the skill of the shepherd and the genetics and training of the dog are all that matter.

You can find our videos on you tube. Our channel is "thestockdogcompany". You could also see how to do this on our website. 

Best of luck!

Patrick


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

Nice info,i havent been on much to see this but glad i checked it.I will check you guys out.
I just thought with 2 dogs mine might get some courage to work them.She works the chickens just fine,but chickens are very skiddish of most dogs.


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