# Milking a wild doe?



## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

OK, so I bought this lovely doe with her two month old kids. I asked all the right questions regarding health history and such, but neglected to ask if she was tame. I guess I just assumed everyone loves up their goats from the day they're born!

Anyway, she is a wild one. Don't get me wrong, she's a great mom, super smart, and I think she will come around eventually, but after a month with us she's only slightly less skittish than when she first arrived. 

Here's my dilemma...her kids are now 9 weeks old, a doeling and a buckling. I have her and the kids with my other doe and her 3 doelings, all in together right now, but have been told I need to separate the buckling at 8-9 weeks, just in case he gets any testosterone-fuelled ideas. So I was planning to put him in with our wether tomorrow. 

That would leave her just the doeling to nurse, and I'm worried she may either dry up on one side, or get mastitis. I've been separating them during the day to get her used to the milk stand in the evening, but haven't been able to milk her yet. She knows the routine though, and is great about everything right up to the part where I try to touch her udder. Then she dances, kicks, tries to sit down, all kinds of crazy antics. And that's not even with me doing anything, just putting my hand on her belly!

So, should I just fight through it and try to force the milking? Will she eventually give up and settle down on the stand if I do that, or is she likely to get even more skittish as a result? At this point I'm thinking I may have to give up any ideas about milking her this time around, and just keep working on taming her before breeding her again.

Any thoughts from the experienced milkers out there?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You just have to fight through it and be persistent.


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

yeppers just keep at it -


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## simeo (Aug 3, 2013)

You'll need to keep at it. If she fights you on the stand and "wins" then she'll be rewarded by you not continuing what you're doing. 

If you're not persistent you'll actually teach her to continue to kick/jump/etc to get you to stop milking her. If she's too difficult with the help of another person hold up one of her hind legs while you milk which will make it much harder for her to resist you. The person will need to tell when she starts to relax and then "reward" her for relaxing by letting her leg slowly back down. 

You need to not only be persistent, but you need to be consistent. I know it's stupid frustrating but eventually she'll get the rhythm down. 

To the point of the kid preferring one teat over the other. If that does indeed happen take a piece of duct tape and wrap her overly used teat so the tip is covered. This will force the kid to even her out. Keep her like this for at least a full day, maybe two. Then take off the tape and watch the kid as she takes turns from teat to teat throughout the day. Problem solved.


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

Well that was an interesting "milking" session. :GAAH:


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

The more you do it the easier it gets, I promise!


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## Talron (Nov 17, 2013)

You could try and hobble her while you milk her so she cant move around as much?


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

Well, I tried holding one back leg up like I saw in a video, but she just skittered around the stanchion on 3 feet and then plopped her back end down. Then I held her two front legs together and that worked only a little better.

Fortunately my sister happened along and she held up one front leg while I held up the opposite back leg. She *still* managed to squirm and dance like you wouldn't believe! I didn't even try to get anything in the bucket, just milked her out onto the stanchion, and the floor, and the wall...barn cats will have a feast tonight lol!

I actually didn't do a whole lot of milking as I spent so much time just trying to get hold of a teat. But I think I did enough that she understood I wasn't just going to go away. 

Tomorrow we'll try the two person method suggested, and watch for her to settle so we can give the reward. After we were done we made her stay on the stanchion and my sister hand fed her grain while I gave her a good rub down, ie food and touching go together and it's all GOOD! We'll see how she does tomorrow.


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

If I had a 3rd hand I'd video this...for sure she'd win Most Difficult Goat of the Year! :laugh:


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## kccountryfarm (Apr 2, 2014)

I took in a ff doe who had very bad milk stand etiquette. I think the majority of the problem was that they didn't have a milk stand and they were trying to milk her on a table and have someone hold her head. They were getting very frustrated with her and hence that is why I have her now. To teach her milking etiquette. Make sure that you are consistent with your milking. Don't give in. Their just like kids they push and push buttons until you give in. You need to be persistent. I have won the battle and with time you will too. Good luck! Just know you aren't the only one who has a difficult girl.


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

Thanks for the encouragement KC. Fortunately my own kids are grown up now and I like to think I learned something about parenting along the way, so hopefully that will help me with teaching this girl some manners. I definitely don't intend to give in to her hissy fit!

P.S. "Milk stand etiquette," love it!


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## foxhollow (May 5, 2013)

I recently picked up a wild gal myself who was from a large, free, unmanaged herd. She is a pygmy/alpine cross (I know, odd mix) but everytime I would visit my friends farm she would stand near me and head butt all the little kids away! 
I had to have her because of her loyalty and upon bringing her home she has a bit of a congested udder that I got going in to a healthy regimine again. The first time I tried to touch her I got bruises and beat up. Food is a powerful tool and I remembered that my friend used to get buckets of orange scraps leftover from a local juice place. I cut up some oranges and along with the grain I offered it to her while she was all locked up. I hand her a slice every so often while trying to do what I needed to do. The oranges slowed her down and because it was coming from me she started to associate this nice things with me instead of the not so nice things I was trying to do to her. 
I also hobbled her back legs. However, I used a dog leash/rope lead. It is a nylon lead. Very soft and doesn't rub. I put both back legs into the loop then loop the leash around the loop a few times, separating the legs. I tie the rest of the leash up to the stall we are near and it really helps. Depending on the fabric of the leash, you can get it pretty tight. This way when she kicks, she has both feet togehter and it usually stops right away. 
Keep at it and good luck!


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

Progress report: 

My wild girl wasn't sure about coming to the barn for grain tonight, I'm sure she remembered yesterday's experience. But eventually she caved.

I decided to milk her first tonight so I could use my Magidans milker. Thought it would be easier as I can put the bucket on the floor and once the suction is on I don't have to hold it. But my other doe has a diaper rash on her udder that I'm treating, so I didn't want to milk her before the wild girl. 

I got her on the stand ok, and as I was alone I tried hobbling her back legs but she out-danced that. It was incredible really, such talent lol!

So then I held up one back leg and let her kick herself out a bit. Tried to stay business-like throughout and I'm sure that helped. I just told her I'd put her leg down when she was ready to show me her manners.

Amazingly it only took two tries before I could put the leg down, milk out a few squirts by hand, and hook up the milker. Then another minor kicking match when I switched sides. 

I tried offering treats as well as the grain, but she just scowled at me and refused them. Fine, I said, don't have your treats. She was acting just like a certain stubborn child I once had the pleasure of raising.

In the end I got about a cup of milk, not bad given that she'd only been separated from her kid for about 6 or 7 hours today, and I had to fight her for it. 

Hopefully we'll continue to make good progress. Obviously my slow and steady, sweet talking methods weren't working, but my business woman imitation seems to have done the trick. I'm so grateful for all your suggestions and encouragement...I surely would have given up otherwise! :grouphug:


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## BrokenArrowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

Business like attitude seems to work with all specie of animals. That's how I train horses. If they make a mistake you fix it and move on. Same with when they spook at that stump they've seen a hundred times.

I have a doe that was like yours. Luckily she was a nigerian and not huge. At first I would loop a rope on her leg, run it under the stand and tie it to her other leg. That way when she kicked, she felt it on the other side. I still to this day have to hold one leg up to get her to milk quietly.. She's always been fun. Keep at it it'll get better!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I had a dancer/ kicker/ laying downer lol i took a lead rope and ties it to one side of the stanchion put it under her lower belly and hooked it to the other side so she couldn't lay down as well as hobbled her back legs and she'd still kick both back feet up off the stand to keep me away lol she was a ff that year. I bore through it and for six years after never needed that stuff again. Good luck!


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## SusanP (Mar 22, 2014)

*Progress Report*

Well I have got myself the sweetest little milking doe now, you wouldn't believe it's the same goat! She is a darling, really come around and so rewarding to work with her. Thanks again for all the suggestions, support and encouragement.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is good for you now. Most of the time if you are persistent, they come around.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

That's encouraging! I'm trying the dog leash method with my hoyden, basically a noose around both back legs, tied off well behind her...it takes several tries to arrange it so she can't kick out of it, but well tied, it keeps her busy balancing on her new "middle" back leg rather than squirming too much and falling over, with her collar meanwhile tied to the top of the headstall so she can't try pulling out backward. Does she ever yell! She gets BOSS when she settles down (there must be a "boss" pun here). But you'd think it was a torture chamber, not a milking parlour. All the pictures in the books show nice, civilized encounters between goat and handler, the doe calmly and happily munching treats, while handler serenely fills the milk pail full. Not exactly as shown/your mileage may vary!


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## MedsHomestead (Jun 16, 2014)

I trained 4 to be milkers this year so I can relate to the bruises, dancing, laying down, and wearing more hair and milk than any one of the does etc - but they all caught on quickly. I like to use peppermint essential oil - I put a drop or two in one palm rub them together vigorously and gently massage the udder - it's a little warm and relaxing and suddenly all their attention is in the grain box. I have 4 of the calmest gentle milk goats you've ever seen. (Also the peppermint essential oil deters flies)
I kept one doe kid this year, and I have already started handling her around the udder letting her see what the milk stand is all about... but I also use my milk stand for hoof trimming or any special attention any of them need.
So glad you were persistent - milking is very rewarding.


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## CaprineDream (Aug 22, 2014)

I have a doe like this too, except that she's normally fine with grain. Most of the time, she gets a few squirts in the face with a spray bottle if she acts up, and it seems to work! Adding lemon juice to the water makes it more effective by giving it a little "bite".


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## LuvmyGoaties (Mar 9, 2010)

I was given a doe because a previous owner had taught her very bad milk stand habits. It is fairly easy to fix with clicker training but if you aren't familiar with clicker training it can still be fixed. Basically you want to reward the right behavior with something she wants, which at this point is you taking your hand away. 

Put her on the milk stand and put you hand on her belly -she will dance around, sit down, kick etc. Don't do anything except keep your hand there. The second she stands still or stands up if she is/was sitting down take your hand off of her and praise her, if there are any treats that she really likes give her a small treat. Give her a some time to process what just happened and then repeat. Soon she will figure out that to get you to take your hand away she needs to stand still/stand up and will do it sooner. Once she stands still sooner keep your hand there a little longer before taking your hand away. So, previously, once her feet stopped moving you took your hand away now wait for her feet to stop moving and then wait 2 seconds before taking your hand away. then wait 3 second, then four etc. Also, always end on a good successful note - do not let her off the stand while she is dancing around. This may seem like a slow process but they actually catch on VERY quickly.

Good luck.


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## LuvmyGoaties (Mar 9, 2010)

MedsHomestead - Be careful using Peppermint EO. Peppermint reduces milk supply.


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## MedsHomestead (Jun 16, 2014)

*Milking a wild doe*

Thanks Jen - I did not know that, but I will be cautious from here forth! Thank you for that info!


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