# Haven't seen kids nurse yet?????



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Yesterday about 12 noon Nanny had 2 little boys. I haven't seen then actually suck yet. They seem to be all around but not hitting the mark. They seem to be perky and their little tails are wiggly but I am worried some that they haven't had any milk. I tried helping them but momma won't stay still even with food. If I back away she stays still but they don't hit the mark. Should I try tying her up and helping them? What would be signs that they aren't nursing. It is possible that I have missed the action since I don't stay with them only check on them from time to time.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You could be missing the action. What I do is milk into a bottle and try to feed them. If they are hungry, they will easily drink. If they aren't hungry, they will fight you. May have to open their mouth to get the nipple in.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok. Well im going clean the shelter out and put new bedding. Nanny goat isn't to cooperative in letting me help them nurse or milk her. I'm gonna tie her up if I don't see them nurse by the time I finish cleaning shelter. Thanks


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Cleaned shelter and cornered nanny in it. Held her for them to feed but they seemed uninterested. Also tried getting some milk out myself but nothing came out. I saw some squirt out while trying to corner her? Confused? Can she look like she has milk and not produce? What signs would there be if they aren't getting the milk they need


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They will start getting lethargic and lay around.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

They seem pretty perky. Tails are wiggly legs still a lil wobbly but they are moving around a lot. Ones eyes are a lil red and puffy?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Check to make sure the eyelashes aren't inverted. Put eye antibiotic in his eyes 2 to 3 times per day.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

There is a teat plug in each teat orifice, which has to be removed. Some are easy while others are really stubborn.
Sometimes we have to work at it, very lightly scraping the teat hole(orifice) very gently and milking to get it to come out.
Be gentle but work at it, until you see a good milk flow.
Once the plug is removed she should be fine. Milk out just enough to take the pressure off and make it less painful to her.

Even if she doesn't like being helped, sometimes we have to in order for the kids to get their precious colostrum, there is a time frame we must ensure they nurse to get it. Tie her up and tie up one back leg, the side you will be working from. After she is relieved by you and milk flow is going good, put the kids on her and tickle the top of the back around the tail head area and guide the kid to the teat, if they are hungry, they will nurse, however, if the momma has been hitting the kids away, the kids will not nurse as they are afraid of her and getting hurt.

Some does can hold their milk too, if they do not want the help.

Congested udder can also happen.

Is her udder hot, hard or lumpy feeling? How does her milk look, any blood, clumps, unusual looking?

Pick up the kids, how does their bellies feel, full or empty? Are they crying out a lot?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks for the info headed back out to try and get some milk flowing and check eyelashes. I don't know much about goats these are my first. If you read a lil about the history I have on here I rescued them a few months back. I will post back shortly.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok worked her teats and got milk. Her bag is warm but I wouldn't say hot. Milk tastes good lol. I couldnt get them to latch on though. I put some in a bowl and was able to get one to drink some. The other wouldn't drink out of bowl. I put it in bottle and they won't suck bottle either one of them.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Well they aren't acting like they are starving. Their bellies aren't swollen like they are full either. I even tried shooting a little with a syringe slowly in their mouth but they aren't real interested. Am I overreacting? Dang goats have me worried to death! Lol


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok another issue?! The brown one's ears are swollen and cushiony while the other's are thin? He doesnt seem to be in pain? I wish I had someone close by that could come and calm me down. I hope I don't lose these little guys (


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet they are nursing. They look like Boer or Boer mix so not sure on the ears. How are the eyelashes?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Yes im sure they are boer. Mom and dad are boers maybe dad is a mix but looks to be boer. I dont see anything with eyelashes just eys seem red and puffy. Someone told me they might be sucking eachothers ears but I haven't seen that. I am gonna corner nanny again in about an hr or so to try and get them to suck again. If I have to milk her to feed them how often should I so her milk doesn't stop?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok might have figured out whats wrong with ears and eyes. This morning when I went in the shelter mosquitos were horrible. I took the kids and moma out and sprayed some off and they flew out. They arent in there aymore but possibly the mosquitos got after them pretty bad last night. I am putting a thermocell in there tonight so I won't have that problem again. Seems when I use hay for bedding they are worse. I put pine shavings this time.


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I had never heard of ThermaCell before, so I looked it up on Amazon.
Goats are not sensitive to pyrethrin and so are probably not sensitive to this product, but I don't know how kids would do breathing it -- it says "harmful if inhaled." I personally wouldn't chance it. Do you know anything more about it? Here is a (negative) review from Amazon:
"This item is advertised as a "mosquito repellent device". Imagine my surprise when I read the fine print on the box---it is actually a heat-release vaporizer dispensing the insecticide Allethrin. That is a synthetic pyrethrin-type insecticide which scrambles nerve signals in insects--causing them to fall down twitching and not bite you. This is NOT a "repellent", this is an insect killer, although its package uses the word "repellent" over and over. I would not have knowingly bought an insecticide fogger. The package has numerous warnings that do not appear on the Amazon sales page, such as "do not contaminate water, food or feed" by use or disposal of the ThermaCell; "harmful if inhaled", and "do not breathe vapors" (good luck avoiding THAT around a vaporizer appliance!) The package also states that the insecticide is toxic to fish and other aquatic life (probably not suitable for use near a garden pond.) Finally, a Wikipedia search revealed that the pyrethrin-type insecticides are highly toxic to cats. Since I bought this thing to ward off mosquitoes on a patio we enjoy with our three cats, it's absolutely NOT acceptable. Sadly, as a butane-burning appliance, it is also NOT RETURNABLE to Amazon, so please, BUYER BEWARE."


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

If the kids aren't nursing, you can milk her twice a day. Sometimes people milk just once a day, but she would produce less.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Wow. Thanks wont be using that!


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Congrats on your new babies!
If bellies are semi full they are getting plenty. You want to feel a nice belly but not overly so.
If the flanks are not sunk in & kids are not crying they are fine.
For the first few hours they sometimes hunt for the teat in all the wrong places.
They also nurse frequently for only several seconds at a time.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

They were born yesterday around noon. I milked mom and tried getting them to feed also since I had mom tied from neck and back leg to hold her good and still. They seemed uninterested. I got about a pint of milk and she seemed to be not producing as much so I stopped and tried getting them to suck from a bottle and once again uninterested. I brought them in because its gonna be warm and more than likely mosquitos will be bad again. I saw each of them have a little poop. Dark and solid. Here is a pic that I think shows them kind of sunk in at belly


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Well finally got one to eat. I put milk in a lid to a bowl and the brown one ate about 4oz an oz at a time. The tan and white one isn't. I got about an oz down maybe? Using a syringe I shot a little at a time but he is starting to get real sluggish. Gonna try all night to get him to eat.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Feeding from a bowl isn't good for them. Get Pritchard nipples. They are a red nipple on a yellow screw cap. Cut off the tip enough to see a small hole. Use 20 ounce Pepsi product bottles to screw on. Get the nipple in their mouth and cup your hand under and up the sides of the mouth to hold the nipple in their mouth. Once they figure out it is good stuff, they will drink it.

If the one is getting sluggish, you will need to work on him. Make sure the milk is warm. Make sure his temp is over 100. Karo syrup or black strap molasses can be given to him for some energy. I'd give him a cc or two.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

My post just disappeared.

Have you taken temp he looks cold. He needs to be 100 before getting anything.
Mouth should be toasty warm.
If you need help warming him up we can tell you how to do this.
At this age kids are not created to drink milk from ground level their necks need to extend upwards.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

I went and bought nipples but they taste like rubber and I wouldn't drink from them either if I were them. I was just grasping at straws when I tried from the lid of the bowl. I only put a little at a time and hold it up high and tilt it so they are kind of in the right position. I will go tomorrow and get better nipples that was a rookie mistake lol. I dont have molasses or karo syrup but I have honey? I can get those tomorrow also and just try all night to get them eating. Idt they are cold there mouths are warm but haven't taken temps. It was almost 80 degrees today and sunny and its 76 on my house. I have them covered with a towel and laying on my sweatshirt. Should I do more to warm them?


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Honey will work just fine. Put a little on your finger & rub some on the nipple too.
Mouth should be toasty warm. It is the internal temp of the kid we are concerned with.
If you have the black lamb nipples its going to take extra patience on your part.
Honestly for now if they are warm enough I would continue to dribble colostrum with a syringe (no needle) It is done at the back side of the mouth. 4-6 cc.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Thanks. Yea inside of mouth is toasty warm. And that is the nipples I bought. Yuk! Lol. They are sleeping should I wake them or wait a while?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wash the nipples good. Any nipples you buy will taste bad. Washing them helps a lot. Also dip them in honey right before feeding.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Will do. I appreciate all the advice! Thanks so much!


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Good to hear mouths are toasty warm!
You can wake them if you think they should be fed. Give as much as they will take, they can not od on colostrum especially during the critical first 12 hrs.
Whatever nipples you use are gonna get all gummed up with that thick yellow colostrum the first couple of days.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Up since early have tried getting them to bottle feed but they weren't really interested again. The brown boy drank from the lid about 3 oz but the tan boy wouldn't so I got him to take about a 1/2 oz by syringe basically force feeding. Went feed momma and pappa but momma wanted her babies not feed. So soon as the son was up enough to give some heat I put them with her. They went straight for teats but can't seem to get them in their mouths. I am gonna leave them with momma for a while then go in a couple hrs and tie her up if I don't see them nursing and try again to get them to feed and milk if necessary. Good news is they are still with us so maybe they will come around. Hope so they slept with my 10 year old on a air mattress in living room ( too cute) I know he would be very upset if we loose them.


----------



## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

If you try the bottle again, put one hand on top of their heads, covering their eyes. I think that it makes them feel like they are under their mom. Squeeze a little milk into the mouth when you get the nipple in there. The hand with the bottle in it should be cupped around the bottom of the jaw. I hope you get them to eat soon!!


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ok went and tied up momma. Finally was able to get the tan one to nurse. Kept having to help get the teat in the mouth but he nursed for a good while. The brown one wasn't very interested but he had eaten a good bit this morning so that didn't worry me too much. Milk has now changed colors but I was able to get them a good bit of colostrum by milking and using bottles, syringes and lids. Looks like I may have to tie her up every time for a while till they get it down pat but I'm feeling good about things after that session


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good. It is better if they would just nurse from mom. I bet they will get the hang of it quickly.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

chuckEboy said:


> Ok went and tied up momma. Finally was able to get the tan one to nurse. Kept having to help get the teat in the mouth but he nursed for a good while. The brown one wasn't very interested but he had eaten a good bit this morning so that didn't worry me too much. Milk has now changed colors but I was able to get them a good bit of colostrum by milking and using bottles, syringes and lids. Looks like I may have to tie her up every time for a while till they get it down pat but I'm feeling good about things after that session


You are doing good. the kids are adorable.

Go out every 2 hours and get the kids to nurse, even if you have to tie up momma. So all get the hang of it, we must ensure they both are nursing well on their own. Keep them in a pen until all are doing well.

If the kid cannot find the teat, hold the teat up towards the kids mouth and tickle the tailhead area to stimulate the kid. Keep at it every 2 hours, until the kid is finding the teat on it's own.

If they are full, then don't fight them, but do ensure both are nursing on their own. If feeding by syringe(no needle) place your index finger in the mouth to mimic a teat. slightly move it in and out leaving the finger in the mouth and at the same time, squirt just a little bit at a time in the mouth we want a suck reflex.

Does the momma have extra big teats or ballooned teats?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Not sure whats extra big teats since this is my first time seeing a prego goat or new borns. I would say they are swollen some but not abnormal looking since she is full of milk. They were nursing again on their own without me tying her up and their bellies feel full. They are srarting to play around clumsily and goofy its so funny! We brought them inside since its kind of kool tonight and mosquitos seem to be on the war path here.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

:dance: They are nursing on their own!!
Yeah sometimes at least with Boers they are just kind of mellow & quiet the first few days then start bouncing off the walls.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear they are nursing on their own, you job is done. Just sit back and watch them be kids.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things today?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Lost the tan and white one this morning. We are pretty bummed out.


----------



## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Maybe you need to give them some BoSe, lack of suckling reflex is a bose deficient thing.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

They tried sucking not sure what happened. He never really turned around like the brown one and I had alot of trouble getting him to get the colostrum. I dont know what BoSe is I will research that so I can be more prepared next time. I have bought a milk suppliment and fed the brown one twice today then putting him back with mom hoping he will be ok. I plan to keep feeding him since he looked skinny still. Hiw much milk or how easy should her milk come out. When I tried milking her it took me quite a while just to get about a pint jar full. Making she hasn't been able to give them enough milk? If we can keep "Dash" alive I will count it a success since I saved these goats just 5 months ago and new nothing about goats. Still no vary little but they are teaching me and the whole family loves them.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Not sure what the smily face is we named him Dash.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Weigh the kid and let us know his weight. What supplement did you buy?


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Ultra 24 and he weighs 7 lbs


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Weigh him daily. Get a hanging fish scale. You need to know his weight in pounds and tenths of pounds or pounds and ounces. You need to see if he is gaining daily.

Start out by offering him 5 ounces twice a day.

That Ultra 24 is not my favorite. It may give him diarrhea. You would be better off with whole milk from the store.


----------



## chuckEboy (Jun 13, 2014)

There is a change in color of poop but wasn't just diarrhea. It was some liquid but poop was like a nutria rat. I would think with the sudden change in milk that would be normal. If it goes south I will definately change to whole milk or maybe mix it some first so it's not so drastic. There is definately some spunk in Dash! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Happy thanksgiving to you as well.


----------

