# First time Pyg owner Q's



## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Hello, my name is Stephanie and I am a first time pygmy goat owner. I thought I new everything when I bought the little guy Sunday, but now reading the internet i'm freaked out that I am doing everything wrong, so please have patience with me. 

The people I got him from said he was four weeks old. My dad worked on a farm for years (grew up on one) and told me to get him castrated asap. He told me he would do it for me, just bring him by. So I read on the internet that it needed to be done before five weeks (with a band). I had him done Monday. Now i'm reading i'm suppose to wait because he'll have bladder infections and stones, and i'm not feeling so good about it. Should I have waited? :/ What are the signs I should be looking for to make sure everything is working right?

I'm confused on what exactly I should be feeding him, different sites are giving me mixed reviews. Right now he's eating a mixture of Alfalfa, goat feed (which is like oats, molasses, ect) and grass from the yard. He was licking on some salt yesterday. What exactly should I be feeding him? 

I made a vet appointment for next week, to make sure he is healthy. He sneezes a little, like once every 45mins or so. When he is sleeping next to me I can hear him breathing to, like he sounds a little congested. Anything special I should be doing or will the vet take care of it?

Thanks, S


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

OH, also i'm waiting to see if the goat bonds well with my dogs. If not I will be getting him a companion goat.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I like to wait later for the banding, but he should be okay, you'll just have to be careful with his food. He's a beautiful little boy!

For wethers it is EXTREMELY important that they have a calcium/phosphorus balance of 2:1 in their diet. IMO they do not need grain if they are getting good grass hay and minerals. If you do feed them grain it needs to have a calcium/phosphorus balance of 2:1 with added ammonium chloride. Add a glug of apple cider vinegar to his water every day. These things will all help prevent urinary calculi :thumb:

You may hear some "mixed reviews" on wethers and what to feed them but it is important to keep the calcium/phosphorus balance and ammonium chloride in their diet. As someone who lost a precious wether to urinary calculi I don't want anyone to have to go through that.

With urinary calculi there are usually three main causes, sometimes a combination of the three.

1: Diet. If the diet was unbalanced leading to buildup.

2: Too early castration. Doesn't let the urethra grow and is more prone to buildup.

3: Hereditary. Their father passed down a "tangled" urethra which is more prone to buildup.

Hope I was helpful!


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you for the reply! Okay, I will defiantly cut back on the feed. Running to the store to get vinegar now


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

No problem! :thumb:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Re: Woodhaven's #3, it is beleived that urinary calculi is more inhereited than just feeding grain.
Granted, wethers dont need much grain but while growing they should have some.
Im sure your little guy will be just fine.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

nancy d said:


> Re: Woodhaven's #3, it is beleived that urinary calculi is more inhereited than just feeding grain.
> Granted, wethers dont need much grain but while growing they should have some.
> Im sure your little guy will be just fine.


Yup, it can definitely be hereditary -- I've heard that from many great breeders. Feeding grain isn't bad at all, it just needs to be balanced. Actually because my girls get alfalfa I'm planning to give my wether a little treat each day of chopped up carrots with a bit of alfalfa. Alfalfa is high on calcium, carrots are very low on calcium, so having just a little pinch of alfalfa with the carrots should balance things out.

As you can see I'm still learning :laugh: I did a ton of research on UC this year after loosing a little guy -- he wasn't living with us and the new owners didn't know that they needed to replace the old hay -- they thought the goats would eat the old hay eventually. The wethers didn't eat the hay, so the owners started to give them free-choice grain instead (not their fault, they were doing what they thought was best).

Because the wethers were getting all grain and no hay, I believe that's why they came down with UC within three weeks of living at their new home (both of them did, but only one was lost. The other was able to be saved and lives at the vet's). It was just the imbalance in their diet, not the grain. I'm just a little paranoid about it now.  I did research their sire extensively -- no history of UC in his family or any of his former wether sons.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

> OH, also i'm waiting to see if the goat bonds well with my dogs. If not I will be getting him a companion goat.


Sorry, missed your post on the dog -- goats really shouldn't be kept with dogs. Even the sweetest, most harmless dog is a predator, and something the goat will do can flip on the predator switch. Goats don't play like dogs and domestic dogs are actually the worst danger to goats. Another goatie friend will provide him with the security and friendship he needs. :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

First off...he is not a Pygmy. He is either a Nigerian Dwarf or a cross of Nigerian and Pygmy... second, he is entirely too young at 4 weeks to be without milk and I have to say that unless the breeder who sold him to you at such a young age advised you on how to bottlefeed until 8 weeks old, I would not consider them responsible
As far as banding, my boys wait til they are 6-7 weeks old, they get a CD/T vaccination at 5-6 weeks, banded a week later and the booster given 3 weeks later.

Genetics play a major role in UC...Nutrition should be balanced for wethers and bucks alike but I have always fed baby boys an 18% goat feed, alfalfa hay and they have access to loose minerals, freechoice. I advise all new owners of my kids to feed grain for the first year as they are growing the most at that time....and thus far, not one of my boys have ghad an issue with UC.

At 4 weeks old he should be getting milk 3-4 times a day as well as browse and hay, feeding a small amount of grain...1/4 to 1/2 cup 3x a day then increased to 3/4 cup 2x a day at 6 weeks. Fresh water should be accessible at all times and I agree with Woodhaven... a dog, regardless of size is not a suitable companion for a baby goat...or any goat. The prey drive is always there and goats in general are wary of dogs, regardless of how friendly the dog is.


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree with what's been said. As far as banding him at a month old, I personally think that's totally fine..We've banded some of our bucklings at a few days old, so a month sounds perfectly fine!


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you for ask the replies! I am taking you're advice and starting the search for another goat tomorrow. My dogs are very big boys, so I don't want to risk it.

I honestly do not know how old he is, I was told 4wks. He is eating like a cow though, and when he was done grazing the grass he demanded feed. I have reduced the feed today. I have been looking into goats in the last month on cl, and when I walked into my local pet store this weekend for something they had this little goat. He was $100. So I brought him home.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

He truly is precious <3 You're doing a great job being a goat mommy so far. It's quite the adventure but so worthwhile.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

I am *super* paranoid about stones right now. I know the place I got this goat from was only feeding feed, because they told me thats all the goat needed.. are there any signs I should be looking for? He's eating fine, playing and headbutting just fine, he licks his band a little every now and then. He is sleeping right now, so I take it that means he isn't restless. He's just so much fatter then his goat brother (I know the girl who has his brother, they're together right now). I've seen his brother pee, but I have never seen him pee. He might be peeing when he's in the yard, but I haven't actually watched him pee yet (which is why i'm so paranoid....)


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I know the paranoid feeling. If you want, you could do what I did with my wether when we got him back (one wether passed, the other lives with the vet, we got the third back who did not have stones). His name is Little Tyke. We have been giving him a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar every day just to make sure that if he had buildup started, we would nip it in the bud. We add just a drop of molasses and stevia to it so that it's tasty. He actually looks forward to his "yummy treat" each day. We won't do this forever, just long enough for our peace of minds.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

That takes care of build up? Yeah, i'm super worried about it. :/


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

It helps acidify the urine, meaning it should help prevent stones and maybe clear out some 'lil ones before it gets too bad. No guarentee, but it won't hurt him and it's very good for him.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you so much! We started putting it in his water yesterday when someone else suggested it. That does make me feel a little better,


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Does he still sound congested and sneezing?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

First I want to say congratulations on such a sweet looking boy, and you are doing what you were told and SHAME on the seller for not helping you correctly. I tell you breeders like that I want to just scream at them, but there are way too many, so we go on.

 I want to say I totally agree with what Liz said. The first thing I thought when you said he was 4 weeks old was 'oh no, he needs a bottle". I know everyone weans their goats at different ages, and what works for them is great but i do not know of any real breeder that would say that 4 weeks is good enough without a bottle that is crap. Their rumen is not developed enough to go on just grazing and things, they need a bottle and the milk for their tender developing tummies.

 No one other then Liz mentioned CD&T. Did he get his shot?

 As for the grain and the UC. I know some use vinager. I do not. My goats would rahter die the drink it, so I use Ammonia chloride. It is so dirt cheap that for me it is the best way to help prevent it. I buy mine at http://www.pipevet.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=8EB3CC7C97C841B0B07BC649456F5156
 I use a 1/8t for my big cashmere 300# bucks, in their grain. that way I know how much they are getting and I know they got it.

 I agree with you needing another goat, they are herd animals and they need another buddy, BUT saying dogs can NOT with them is wrong, there are lots of dogs that are fine with goats, they have guard dogs that are trained to be with them.

 Also, you need a good loose mineral that they can eat whenever they want. That is the one that you should try to get 2:1 ratio. That is the best thing to get but I have to get a cattle mineral that has that and a high cooper, I can't find a goat mineral around here to get me what I need for my goats.
 Also, i am not sure if anyone said anything about Sheep/goat feeds and things. try to stay away from them. if it is for sheep it does not have the cooper that the goats need. Sheep do not need or cannot have cooper and goats need it.

 Ok, I believe I have said enough. 

 Good luck and keep asking away, that is what we are all here for. Also no question is a dumb question so if you have a question just ask it.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Sweetgoats just covered all the basics. :thumb: I only add the tinest bit of vinegar to the water so they don't smell it and drink away without relizing it's in there. When I drench Little Tyke with it I sweeten it up. He lets me know when it's not sweet enough. Such a picky boy.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

I've called around four the cd&t vac at feed stores, but no one has it, so I figured the vet would do it with the check up next week? Is it urgent to get it done right away? 

Headed to the feed store at three to get some hay. No alfalfa right?


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Also, he hasn't been sneezing anymore. Last night he was extremely playful so I couldn't really get him to sit still enough to listen for congestion.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

If he's bouncing around he sounds just fine. CD/T isn't an emergency -- it's just a vaccination a lot of people do. I personally have decided not to, but most goat owners do. It's not about urinary calculi, it's for other illnesses.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you! I'm sure he's probably fine, I'm just a worry wart 









Here's him and his brother at work with me today (another girl bought his brother, I'm kind of hoping she doesn't come pick him up :x)


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

What a precious baby!


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh, how precious are they? 

Just in case he's not crazy about the apple cider vinegar, which mine aren't, they won't even touch it. I give my boys a bowl of lemonade every day...they love it.

Like others have mentioned, it might not be a bad idea to supplement your little guy with some milk. 
My boys were nine weeks old when I brought them home, but the breeder said giving them milk for a while longer wouldn't hurt, as they were small for their age. 
They wouldn't take a bottle but were happy as could be to drink it out of a bowl.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

WillowGem said:


> a bottle but were happy as could be to drink it out of a bowl.


Just one note on this: Goaties usually need to drink their milk with their head held up -- that way you make sure the milk goes into the right stomach. :thumb:


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## WillowGem (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks, Woodhaven...I didn't know that.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

A little update and pictures.

The girl came and got my goats brother yesterday. He was devastated. So we looked into getting him a friend and brought home another wether and a doe. Coot was ecstatic, but the other two are older and a little freaked. My question is, the female keeps head butting my little guy, and she twice his size. She is literally knocking him around. Is this her picking on him? I don't think I'm going to keep her.








The two new ones








My pit extremely upset the goats won't play with him. The toy in the middle of them he kept throwing their way saying "play with me". He couldn't understand why they wouldn't chase him


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## mistyblue (Nov 13, 2008)

I love the picture of your dog and the goats, very cute. As for the doe butting on your little guy, this might stop in a day or two once the pecking order has been established or unfortunatly that could be just how she is. I have had several that just had to go as they were mean to all the goats, adults and kids alike.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Usually they're a bit rough with each other the first few days. If she's still like this next week it may be time to re-home, but I'm thinking they're just trying to figure out how to be a herd.


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## StephjShank (Oct 17, 2012)

Ok thank you


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