# Buck staring at a tree



## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

I got my goats 3 months ago and I have one that just puts his nose against a tree and stand there. Any clue why he does this? I have him and a doe for my small farm and they roam around.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Is he chewing the bark? Many will do that. Also - is he feeling well? Temp? Famacha score ? Good loose minerals available? Firm poo pellets?


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

goatblessings said:


> Is he chewing the bark? Many will do that. Also - is he feeling well? Temp? Famacha score ? Good loose minerals available? Firm poo pellets?


He's acting normal, no loose stool, plenty of minerals given to them. He's not chewing on the bark. He'll roam around and then randomly go to the same tree. Its an oak tree. Not sure what a Famacha score is


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Famacha is the color of the bottom inner eyelid. If you google it you'll see the color rating system. How long does he stand there?


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

MellonFriend said:


> Famacha is the color of the bottom inner eyelid. If you google it you'll see the color rating system. How long does he stand there?


Looks like a 2. Sorry first time having goats.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

I should add that the doe does use the three trees there as a scratching post too. But its just that one he does this with


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Is he sleeping? How often does he do it?


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## R.Williamson (Mar 21, 2019)

I do not want to assume it is a health issue right off. Any chance there is something in the tree he could just be interested in? Squirrel nest or something?Goats are super curious.
Otherwise , and this is just me personally, I would give him some Thiamine pills for a few days on the off chance that perhaps he is edging towards a lack of vitamin B. If he doesn't need it he will just pee out the excess.If he does you may see a change in behavior.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

How long has it been going on?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How long does he stand there? I agree it could be something as easy as he likes a smell or something.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> How long does he stand there? I agree it could be something as easy as he likes a smell or something.


Sorry I hadn't been getting the emails saying g I got messages. He stood there for a few hours. He's only been eating the leaves on the trees for the entire afternoon. Had access to a yard full of tall grass. Since yesterday afternoon he hasn't been acting himself. Laying down a lot today and when. Standing up seeming shaky. The doe might also be in heat since before this he tried breeding her twice.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

course now that I posted this he is now up and moving around >.>


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

So this isn’t a habit, it just started?

Take his rectal temp.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I’d consider starting with B Complex at a polio treatment rate so if it has 100mg/ml thiamine in it - give 5ml of it.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Take his rectal temp.


:up:


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

I


21goaties said:


> :up:


 Gotta go buy a new one. Not sure what happened to mine >.> will let you guys know


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Just in case... 
Do you have B Complex? 
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-hi-level-vitamin-b-complex

Ever given a goat an injection before?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get a temp first.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

106.4 so running a fever


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Just in case...
> Do you have B Complex?
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-hi-level-vitamin-b-complex
> 
> Ever given a goat an injection before?


Not given goats injections but I have a friend that sold me the goat that has


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Athiena said:


> 106.4 so running a fever


Oh no... Do you have a vet?
He needs to stay hydrated. Is he drinking/eating?
I would give banamine and start antibiotics. Could be pneumonia.
@happybleats @toth boer goats @ksalvagno @goathiker @SalteyLove


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Oh no... Do you have a vet?
> He needs to stay hydrated. Is he drinking/eating?
> I would give banamine and start antibiotics. Could be pneumonia.
> @happybl


I dont have a vet yet. What kind of antibiotics? He's drinking but not eating


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Athiena said:


> Not given goats injections but I have a friend that sold me the goat that has


https://happybleatsdairygoats.weebly.com/giving-shots.html


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Athiena said:


> I dont have a vet yet. What kind of antibiotics? He's drinking but not eating


I would try to call around and find a vet ASAP. Not eating + fever means he is very sick. We use Tylan 200 when we suspect pneumonia.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> https://happybleatsdairygoats.weebly.com/giving-shots.html


Okay. I've given to dogs and chickens. Just will need extra set of hands for that a goat. he gave me issues with the temp taking


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> I would try to call around and find a vet ASAP. Not eating + fever means he is very sick. We use Tylan 200 when we suspect pneumonia.


I'll call around. I'm sure I can grab that up to fairly quicklu


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> So this isn't a habit, it just started?
> 
> Take his rectal temp.


I forgot to answer your fist question. He has stared at that tree a couple of times before but never more than 10 min


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Needs to be on antibiotics and banamine asap. Tylan 200 is a good one.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

Ev


NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Needs to be on antibiotics and banamine asap. Tylan 200 is a good one.


erything is closed right now. Will go first thing in the morning.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Dosages are here: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/medicine-cabinet-2020.215845/


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Dosages are here: https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/medicine-cabinet-2020.215845/


Thank you guys


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Athiena said:


> Ev
> 
> erything is closed right now. Will go first thing in the morning.


Hopefully you get a vet who knows goats! I would keep taking his temp every few hours. Make sure he keeps drinking.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You can use aspirin to bring the temp down.

Ice packs under armpits.

Can’t go the night with a fever over 106.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> You can use aspirin to bring the temp down.
> 
> Ice packs under armpits.
> 
> Can't go the night with a fever over 106.


Normal aspirin like human? What dosage and how do you give it to them


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

1 adult aspirin for 10lbs.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> 1 adult aspirin for 10lbs.


Right I forgot about aspirin! You could crush it up in water and drench (do you have a drench gun)? Or just try to get the pills past his back teeth and hope he swallows


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Right I forgot about aspirin! You could crush it up in water and drench (do you have a drench gun)? Or just try to get the pills past his back teeth and hope he swallows


I dont. But I crushed some up in water and used a syringe to get it in. He took most of the mixture


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

How is he this morning?


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> How is he this morning?


He's up and moving around but still acting sick. Will be taking his temp in a bit after I get kids fed and give him some asprin. Then going out to my store to see if they have any medicine. If not ill have to wait til tomorrow to get some at my trusty feed store who should have it.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Thanks for the update!
Still drinking? Eating? Let us know his temp. 
I would still try to find a vet. Banamine is vet prescription.
If he has pneumonia (high fever can be the only. symptom of it) then he may need a prescription antibiotic too. 
We got tylan 200 after reading on here that is was one of the best over the counter antibiotics for pneumonia. Couldn't find it in stores so ordered it here: https://www.revivalanimal.com/product/tylan/all-dog-and-cat-supplies


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Thanks for the update!
> Still drinking? Eating? Let us know his temp.
> I would still try to find a vet. Banamine is vet prescription.
> If he has pneumonia (high fever can be the only. symptom of it) then he may need a prescription antibiotic too.
> We got tylan 200 after reading on here that is was one of the best over the counter antibiotics for pneumonia. Couldn't find it in stores so ordered it here: https://www.revivalanimal.com/product/tylan/all-dog-and-cat-supplies


He's drinking but only seems to be interested in tree leaves right now. His temp is 104.3 but now he's having issues walkinh


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Does he look dazed, circling, drooling, eyes rolling back in his head?


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Can you post pictures/video?

Leaves are good for him.

What is his FAMACHA score? https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/FAMACHA-Scoring_Final2.pdf

Read this...http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

There's also goat vet corner on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/goatvetcorner

But he really needs to see a vet if he is still sick and having trouble walking


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Can you post pictures/video?
> 
> Leaves are good for him.
> 
> ...


I'm taking him to someone to get checked up ob


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

Athiena said:


> I'm taking him to someone to get checked up ob


Famacha is still a 2


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A stronger RX antibiotic and banamine should be used instead. Get a vet right away before you lose the goat.

Ask another breeder if they have banamine etc.

But if you haven't found a vet,
Bio-Mycin 200 is less stinging.
You need to start treatment right away. 1 x a day for 5 days. 
1 cc per 20 lbs.
You need to get that temp down as soon as possible and using banamine will help better.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

So prognosis isn't a good one. Said was listeria and possibly turning into encephalitis.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Treatment recommendation?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Many of us on the site have treated goats with listeriosis that were worse off than your goats. A lot of vets don't know about goats. You will need to treat with Thiamine or Bcomplex (with B1 in it) and Penicillin every 6 hours until all symptoms are gone. See if you can get Dexamethazone from the vet for swelling. 
Treatment and information: 
https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/...ortico-steroid),to reduce brain stem swelling.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I would treat for polio/listeriosis even if you think the symptoms don't match or don't know how he could have it. If you want to save him, you need to go and get supplies (B complex and Penicillin) from Tractor Supply or a feed store today and start right away.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

jschies said:


> Treatment and information:
> https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/...ortico-steroid),to reduce brain stem swelling.


Yes the above link tells how to treat.

It is also crucial to make sure he stays hydrated. A 100 lb goat needs about a gallon of water a day (spread out of course)
No grain while he's sick, but hay pellets (alfalfa, timothy, etc.) beet pulp pellets, hay, and leaves are good. 
You can soak the hay pellets in water to make a slurry and drench him with it. Do you hear his rumen making noise?

https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/hydrationnutriti.html


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

They gave me penicillin to give a double dose every 8 hours and b complex i grabbed up after you guys suggested. He's 50 lbs. But was told to force water every hour


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We use this: https://www.mannapro.com/products/goat/goat-electrolyte maybe you could alternate between electrolytes and plain water. If you're trying to tempt him to drink try mixing molasses or honey with warm water

A drench gun like this makes it easier:









I would use the dosages/frequencies on the link that was sent.

Did you get any banamine or dexamethasone? Glad you were able to get a vet involved

Good luck


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> We use this: https://www.mannapro.com/products/goat/goat-electrolyte maybe you could alternate between electrolytes and plain water. If you're trying to tempt him to drink try mixing molasses or honey with warm water
> 
> A drench gun like this makes it easier:
> View attachment 187129
> ...


I did not. I pretty much got told he has a high chance of not making it


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Athiena said:


> I did not. I pretty much got told he has a high chance of not making it


I would call them and ask if you can get a bottle of dexamethasone, banamine (if you had to choose one I would choose dex in this situation) and some sub q fluids (lactated ringers, can administer a small bubble under the skin). If he stops drinking that can help with getting him hydrated. Or ask them to set up an IV on him and then you can give iv fluids. If he's not drinking.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

@happybleats


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh boy..poor little guy. Listerisos or polio can look very similar symptom wise. Hows he doing after the b comolex shot Penicillin? Full treatment would be:
Penicillin should be 1 cc per 10 pounds sub q every 6 hours.
500 mg thiamine every 6 hours as well..so if you're b complex has 100 mg thiamine..he needs 5 cc.
Banamine or dexamethsone can make the difference on his recovery. ..call around to goat and horse friends see if any one has either one.
If you find banamine..1 cc per 100 pounds sub q once a day
If you find dex..1 cc per 20 # in the muscle once a day until better for a full 24 hours..then decrease amount daily for a week.

Keep him hydrated..let him have leaves and hay. No grain.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Be sure to pull back the plunger and check for blood when giving shots. Especially with Penicillin. See blood..readjust and try again. No blood is good to go. 

Best wishes


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

@Athiena, any update?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

happybleats said:


> Oh boy..poor little guy. Listerisos or polio can look very similar symptom wise. Hows he doing after the b comolex shot Penicillin? Full treatment would be:
> Penicillin should be 1 cc per 10 pounds sub q every 6 hours.
> 500 mg thiamine every 6 hours as well..so if you're b complex has 100 mg thiamine..he needs 5 cc.
> Banamine or dexamethsone can make the difference on his recovery. ..call around to goat and horse friends see if any one has either one.
> ...


 I agree with this.

Didn't know it was listeria.
If we can't physically see or see a video of the goat, or get partial symptoms, we can only assume, it may of been pneumonia or infection.

However, now that is has been diagnosed, do not give byomycin 200 with it as I suggested above, if it is Listeria.
PenG is the cure.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Please please do the injections of both Penicillin and Thiamine every 4-6 hours around the clock! You can do this and he can survive!

But yes you do need Dexamethasone or Banamine. Most horse owners keep Banamine on hand so if you have horse friends get some. 1cc per 100lbs subq. 

If it's polio, he will show quick improvement, if it's Listeriosis, it will be slower. Yes he will be a pin cushion, and yes you will be exhausted. But if you save his life it will be worth it!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:nod::up:


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

Thanks guys for all the information. I've been busy trying to take care of him last night and today. 

Last night all he could do was lay on his side and kick. He's still being forced water. I left for a few hours today and he had thrown up and while I was cleaning him im worried now he is blind in one eye. He had to have done it as some point in the three hours I was gone so I'm not sure the vomit would have done this right?

While cleaning him he did roll himself over onto his belly and lift his head up some so some improvement from last night. 

Is the eye completely blind or can it be saved? That is the colored part of the eye. I did see some of the pupil  I can't seem to be doing right for this little guy...


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

I'm so sorry he is doing so poorly. Poor little buddy. Were you able to get Dexamethasone, Banamine, Lactated Ringers, or get an IV started on him?

Will he not drink or eat at all?

He _needs_ to be kept sitting up in the position he would lay normally, no laying on his side which will make him shut down. You can get creative...ideas could be 2 small square bales on either side of him, put him over a square bale for a minute, Make a sling out of a blanket/towel and hoist him up for short periods, etc
Also needs his legs massaged/moved a lot so they don't go numb.

The blindness is a symptom of listeriosis: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

@toth boer goats @happybleats @goathiker @SalteyLove


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> I'm so sorry he is doing so poorly. Poor little buddy. Were you able to get Dexamethasone, Banamine, Lactated Ringers, or get an IV started on him?
> 
> Will he not drink or eat at all?
> 
> ...


I wasnt able to and any breeders around me said what I was giving should be good enough to help him through.

I did not know about him not laying on his side i went and fixed that right away. He's been kicking his legs a lot but when i clean him up I rub him down. I'm still making sure he's getting water in him every hour. He took some oatmeal with some molasses earlier for me. I'll start doing the sling too


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Dex or Banamine may make the difference in his recovery (in addition to the penicillin and thiamine). Dexamethasone reduces brain swelling caused by the encephalitic kind of listeriosis which it looks like he has. Banamine can also be used if you can't get dex.

What's his temp?

He is lucky to have you, good work getting him sitting up. Making a slurry out of alfalfa pellets soaked in water can be used to feed him. If he's 50 lbs then he needs 1/2 gallon of water a day

@GoofyGoat @ksalvagno @Goats Rock


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Dex or Banamine may make the difference in his recovery (in addition to the penicillin and thiamine). Dexamethasone reduces brain swelling caused by the encephalitic kind of listeriosis which it looks like he has. Banamine can also be used if you can't get dex.
> 
> What's his temp?
> 
> ...


I was running a little less than that in water. I will up it. I wasnt sure how much to give him. His temp when I cleaned him up and fed/gave him water was 102.6


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Just make sure to spread out the water some throughout the day then so he doesn't get it all at once

Normal goat temp is 101.5-103.5 so that is ok.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Just make sure to spread out the water some throughout the day then so he doesn't get it all at once
> 
> Normal goat temp is 101.5-103.5 so that is ok.


I was giving 200 ml every hour for 12 hours. Will need to up it since hasnt been about 1/2 gallon.

I got home and he felt normal instead of the blistering heat he was. I had still been giving asprin to him before then. But by that time the asprin would have stopped keeping his temp down. I was about to give him some more.

I'm still hoping for the best with him. Even if he ends up half or fully blind. My kids love him


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Listeriosis recovery can be long and treatment needs to be aggressive :hug:
I hope he improves, remember not to stop treatment if he does so he doesn't regress


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

21goaties said:


> Listeriosis recovery can be long and treatment needs to be aggressive :hug:
> I hope he improves, remember not to stop treatment if he does so he doesn't regress


Went to give him some more water and doesn't seem like its going to be good news in the morning. Hes not trying to move now. Acting limp since I've moved him. I dunno if this is very good. When the kids go to sleep ill probably be in there with him all night. I did still give him some to drink but he wasn't trying to swallow it like he had been before. Ill let you guys know in the morning


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Let's give electrolytes in place of water. Keep him propped up. Head on side is ok..just dont let him lay flat. Banamine or Dex is imperative. It will reduce the brain swelling. Listerisos is much harder to recover from. You are doing the best you can for him. ((Hugs))


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Let's give electrolytes in place of water. Keep him propped up. Head on side is ok..just dont let him lay flat. Banamine or Dex is imperative. It will reduce the brain swelling. Listerisos is much harder to recover from. You are doing the best you can for him. ((Hugs))


I've had him propped up now since I was told not to let him lay on his side. I have been giving electrolytes/ well pedialyte is what was suggested by a friend.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Pedialyte is ok for now.  sending good thoughts!


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

There's no need to wait til morning.. i went out and caught his last 5 min. Thank you guys for all the info and help. I will definitely be getting those other medicines when I can in case this happens again. This time it just ended up at bad timing where I really couldn't afford much and the vet bill was already a lot. I still have the female ive been keeping a close eye obe


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Oh no I'm so sorry. :angel:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I’m so sorry.

I’d start everybody on raw garlic as some prevention.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh no. Im sorry. Im glad you were there with him in the end. ((Hugs))


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

if you doe is the only goat left...you will need to find another goat friend some time soon. Again im very sorry you lost him


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I'm so sorry.
> 
> I'd start everybody on raw garlic as some prevention.


I had given my other goat a dose of antibiotics.



happybleats said:


> if you doe is the only goat left...you will need to find another goat friend some time soon. Again im very sorry you lost him


I know. I may send her back to the friend I bought her from until I can get another one


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You can’t give one dose of antibiotics. If you start, you should run the full course.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> You can't give one dose of antibiotics. If you start, you should run the full course.


Okay didn't know. I was just told to give her a shot to


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What antibiotic and what dose. Nig.DwarfOwner is correct..needs a full course once started to prevent a resistance.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Athena I am so sorry you lost your boy. Just remember he knows you love him and that you did the best you could. He was in good hands.


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## Athiena (Aug 21, 2020)

happybleats said:


> What antibiotic and what dose. Nig.DwarfOwner is correct..needs a full course once started to prevent a resistance.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok..that is 1 cc per 20 pounds sub Q once a day for 5 days. I lift a big tent..inject and then jiggle the tent a bit to help lesson the sting.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Give probiotics 3 hours post shot to help the gut.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All really good advice.

I am so sorry for your loss. 

I have to say, with listeria/polio is it a must, to give banamine or Dex. 
Without it, the brain remains swollen and the goat cannot get better.
It was a mistake not giving it.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Athiena said:


> There's no need to wait til morning.. i went out and caught his last 5 min. Thank you guys for all the info and help. I will definitely be getting those other medicines when I can in case this happens again. This time it just ended up at bad timing where I really couldn't afford much and the vet bill was already a lot. I still have the female ive been keeping a close eye obe


So sorry for your loss Athiena...
Proud of you for hanging in there with treatment and care. I'm sure that made a difference to him just knowing you were there with him and trying your best.


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