# Udder changes



## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

What aspects of a goats udder change between (and even within) freshenings? Obviously things like capacity change, and I’ve read about foreudders smoothing our, but I would assume attachments don’t change. Does the medial ligament strengthen? Teat placement? Eustachion?

We’re just getting started into milking and really looking at udders. One of my does has wide placed teats and is not easy to milk. Not sure if this is something that can improve with her next freshening or if she needs to go. Other than her terrible teat placement I think her udder is otherwise nice.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Teat placement doesn't change.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

You'd be amazed at how much a doe's udder can change with a few freshenings! I'm sure others here have pictures to share, but their teat placement can definitely become more centered with age if they were farther apart as an FF. The medial can become more defined and attachments can improve as well. The general shape of the escutcheon is determined by the goat's width, height and openness in the rear. That generally won't change, but you may have a doe with a beautiful rear who doesn't look like her udder fits as an FF, then with a few more freshenings, suddenly it's gorgeous!
@FoxRidge I know one of your milkers did that. Would you mind sharing pictures of the difference between her 1st & 2nd or 3rd freshenings?

3-5 or 6 Years old is usually considered maturity and the prime of life for a Nigerian and when they're at their peak, so until then they are still going to be going through awkward stages, especially with slower maturing lines, not so much with the faster ones, but even they are usually at their best around then. After that, the really good does seem to maintain their production until they are 10+.

Is your doe an FF? Does her dam have correct teat placement? Her sire's dam. In other words, does she have the genetics to blossom. If so, give her time. Teat placement can change, and, it's only 4 points on the scorecard so unless she's truly difficult to milk, I wouldn't cull her yet. I think with patience she might pleasantly surprise you.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

following along on this thread, even though I don't do dairy! I'm sorely disappointed this year as my 5 year old Kiko doe Butter who is such a doll and a great herd queen, her udder became a real issue this year, her 4th freshening. Her attachments are just completely shot. And there is no way I could have predicted this as a consideration of keeping her offspring the past 4 years. It's so bad it's inhibiting her gait and making it nearly impossible to run. I feel really bad for her. I'm going to dry to dig up an udder photo of previous years and this year so you guys might tell me what to look for in future doe selections.

Totally crashing your thread! Hijacker!


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

SalteyLove said:


> following along on this thread, even though I don't do dairy! I'm sorely disappointed this year as my 5 year old Kiko doe Butter who is such a doll and a great herd queen, her udder became a real issue this year, her 4th freshening. Her attachments are just completely shot. And there is no way I could have predicted this as a consideration of keeping her offspring the past 4 years. It's so bad it's inhibiting her gait and making it nearly impossible to run. I feel really bad for her. I'm going to dry to dig up an udder photo of previous years and this year so you guys might tell me what to look for in future doe selections.
> 
> Totally crashing your thread! Hijacker!


Pictures would be great if the OP doesn't mind. That age range I mentioned, around 3-5, is when the best of a doe comes out, and the worst. 
I had a lovely Nubian, 2 gallon milker as a 2yr old FF. Her attachments weren't that great, but her udder was above the hocks and her capacity was amazing. As a 3yr old 2nd freshener, her production dropped a little, but it wasn't terrible, udder was hanging just a little lower too. By her 4yr old 3rd freshening, her production was down to less than 1 & 1/2 gallons, and her udder was borderline pendulous. I sold her then because it was obvious she wasn't going to hold up with time. 
So sometimes they drastically improve and sometimes you can watch them go backwards in a hurry.


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

For sure I can! I have two second fresheners that had huge changes. First off is Cavatina, the single picture is her FF udder, the collage is her 2F udder and I LOVE IT!!!

And then the same with Sunflower. All pics are 12 hr fills


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

Absolutely post pics Saltey! It would be great to learn.

The one I'm most concerned about is a second freshener. We bought her in milk last year, but drying up. I don't have any pics of her udder, I'll have to try and get some tonight.

Here is my first home-bred doe. First freshener, freshened Monday. Her teats are to the side a bit but she is actually easy to milk. In the pics she was hunched up and nervous about the whole milking thing so she is not properly set up. She's also with her buckling so not a 12 hr fill or anything.
























I cannot get the stupid pictures to rotate properly from my phone. They're correct on my phone, not sure why the forum is rotating them.


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

FoxRidge said:


> For sure I can! I have two second fresheners that had huge changes. First off is Cavatina, the single picture is her FF udder, the collage is her 2F udder and I LOVE IT!!!
> 
> And then the same with Sunflower. All pics are 12 hr fills


That's a big change between first and second freshenings on Cavatina! Thanks for sharing the pics!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Things that change are foreudder, udder depth, and MSL. Teat placement can somewhat change, as the stronger the MSL gets, the more it pulls the udder in toward the middle and the teats come with it.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Rear udder attachments don’t get better, but the doe may fill her udder better in subsequent freshenings and fill up the attachment area and present better on a shorter fill. (Or it can go the other way, so it’s important to know how much time your doe needs to get nice and full through the attachments and look the nicest for show.)


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## FoxRidge (Aug 26, 2016)

This is my doelings FF dam. I asked if I could share these. The first one is a few hours fresh and the 2md a couple months freshened!


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