# Double teat



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Ok - so when I was cleaning Hemi's butt last night, I flipped him up and noticed he has a double teat :shocked: on one side.

I never checked him because I knew from the beginning I was going to be wethering him, so I didn't care - 

But here is my question - with him having a double teat - where, predominately, does that come from - the dam or the sire????

Thanks


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would think the sire....mostly.... :wink: :greengrin:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

That is what I was wondering - his sire is Joe Dirt, who is deceased, and his dam does not have the double teat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Poor Joe..I still miss him....  ..did he have a double teat?


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

I've had them pop up on kids with both parents being clean two teated.. I check them every week too.. sometimes they just grow! i'll find the like to the article


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

If neither of his parents had a double orfice or teat, then they were both carrying the recessive gene for it. 
beth


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

To be honest, I have NO idea if Joe had one of not -

I do still miss him also - but there is a POSSIBILITY of Joe babies in a couple days - we will have to wait and see.


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

Oh I missed when Joe died. . . when did that happen? I am so sorry, he was such a cutie!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

sparks879 said:


> If neither of his parents had a double orfice or teat, then they were both carrying the recessive gene for it.
> beth


none of my goats are recessive for that.. it grew when the kids was 9 weeks.. there's an article my friend wrote i'm trying to find


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Joe passed away December 5th from a esophogial tear. It broke my heart - so i am so praying that Trinity has a doeling of his for me. If the kid/s are born with blue eyes, then I know that they are Blues. If they have brown eyes, then I will be DNA testing to find out if they are Joe's or not.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

ok so .. they are called phytoestrogens.

some people don't believe it.. but.. i do

when i fed feed with a lot of soy and other high phytoestrogens is when i had my double teated goats ( two completely seperate lines and two completely different aged goats) both were clean at birth and then every week till weaning.. the wether, who was gong to be a buck,'s showed up when he was 11 weeks completely out of the blue

the second was a 5 month old doe.. who i checked every few weeks or so when i worked with her and then one day BAM there it was

heres the link
http://www.geocities.com/desertwindsnv/herbspart4.html


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> but there is a POSSIBILITY of Joe babies in a couple days - we will have to wait and see.


 I hope and pray that they are perfect teated for you are very healthy..and that you get at least 2 doelings out of Joe....Thinking pink..... :wink: :girl: :girl: praying pink... ray:

SDK ....I have never had any of my goaties...grow a teat later or anything ...at birth what it's been for me is...what you see .....is ...what you get.... :wink:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

that's what's weird.. i've never had a kid born with a third teat.. they always grow when they are weaned.. 

I should check memphis.. when i got her at 3 months she had two teats.. I haven't checked her in awhile..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow SDK ...it has to be coming from somewhere.... :scratch: that's crazy...and I bet it it driving you nuts..... :hug: :sigh: :help: :doh:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

I haven't had one happen since last year.. After gabby's grew.. I got rid of all my soy based feed and only doe's that are in late pregnancy and milking get straight alfalfa and grain( which is soy free).

everybody else gets grass/alfalfa and alfalfa oat pellets.. 

So far no kids have had any second teats or spurs and freddy ( who is the oldest) is nearing 4 months so.. I am never feeding soy based feed again.. unless its the meat wethers... then they are tasty


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

wow ......it blows my mind.... that it is caused by.......soy based feed :scratch:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

It's what i'm assuming is the cause.. at least for mine.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Boots(Teddys Dam) had one that was teeny next to a regular teat, since she's been freshened 7 times, it "disappeared"...Teddy doesn't have but 2 teats, Chief (Teddys sire) has 2 teats......Doc(Moo) has an extra teeny teat...he's being banded next week, his brother Bugsy doesn't have the xtra, but I'm guessing that since Boots had that one that she's the carrier therefore it must be recessive in Teddy.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

Phytoestrogens and double teats. Are there studies to suggest this? Certainly a hormonal influence sounds plausible but I've not heard this anywhere else. Especially since teat issues that I'm familiar with seem to show up in certain individuals that are passed along.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

not any "real" studies.. but.. i KNOW my animals don't carry it..


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

I believe its recessive so both, dam and sire. Otherwise animals with split or double teats would constantly produce them. However it has been seen with two animals not having split or double teats, when bred together, producing them. So both parents contributed.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup, Im agreeing with sgm. My neighbor had several kids that showed up with extra teats/orfices after weaning and she feeds COB. No soy in there whatsoever. She used my buck that year. So aparently my buck was carrying the recessive gene. None that i know of before had extra teats. Then i started talking to other breeders, that had bucks out of my bucks sire. And they were having extra teats pop up. These are breeders that had been breeding for ten to twenty years and had never had an extra teat before. 
beth


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

well mine don't carry it


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Wow, this is interesting. . . I am personally more apt to think it is caused by genetics rather than feed. We've never had an extra teat with the Nigerians but one of our Pygmy does always has at least one kid with teat spurs. I can't see any on her but her kids have had them.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I checked both of the new kids, and neither have a double teat. I will be watching them closely, but I think we are good. And their is a possibility (pending DNA testing) that they have the same sire. 

Which makes me believe that Joe and Snow must both be carriers of the reccessive gene.


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Just be careful, double teats can come up at any time. So just keep checking them. I have known of a few to pop up later on in their lives.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I have too Rowdy. And the worst thing is a lot of breeders just cut the extra teat off and continue to breed the animal. This is why the can come up generations down the line and you not even know that they are carrying the gene.
beth


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

sparks879 said:


> I have too Rowdy. And the worst thing is a lot of breeders just cut the extra teat off and continue to breed the animal. This is why the can come up generations down the line and you not even know that they are carrying the gene.
> beth


I have too. I do not agree with it. Luckily, none of my animals have gotten it yet.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Nope. We have never had a double teat apear here. If we did, buck or doe they would be going to freezer camp. But i know a lot of people "dont want to lose the sale" and they sell animals without even mentioning it.
You just got to watch you kids closely for anything abnormal to apear.

beth


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh yah, if a male shows with it they are wethered immediately - does, I would only let go to a pet home with NO registration and would explain the issue with NOT breeding her


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## HummelHill (Aug 8, 2008)

What about a buck from the same litter as a doe that was born with a double teat? It seems the accepted practice is to wether the buckling, simply because he was from the same litter, even if he doesn't have extra teats. Does anyone know the thought process behind this? Is this consistent with what you all would do?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I think wethering him would be best...it is recessive and an be passed along even though he does not have an xtra....example, I kept Teddy a buck because the crossing of my pygmy/nigi doe and PB nigi produced very nice kids...and his color was also a factor. Teddy's dam had a third teat that receded when she was first freshened.....Teddy and his brothers do not have a third teat,of the 2 bucklings that Teddy sired this year, one has an extra teat while the other is normal. There will always be chance that the extra teats will pop up in kids if does or bucks from the line that carries the trait......even if it doesn't happen every year.


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## HummelHill (Aug 8, 2008)

Yes, that makes sense. I'm planning to wether him anyway as his dam is a first freshener, but I was curious about the thought process behind that practice. 

Thanks


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup I agree, if there is a littermate with an extra teat or orfice i would whether him. Even though he isnt showing it he could still be carrying the recessive gene. 
beth


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