# doe rejecting doeling after disbudding



## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I have a concern. This is the first time after numerous disbudding this has happened... The doe runs away from her doeling and won't let her nurse. The doeling was born April 29 so she is about 2 weeks old nigerian dwarf and was disbudded this morning. The other babies and does aren't having a problem. Any suggestions?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Put them in a small pen together for awhile. Hold the doe for the kid to suck. Hopefully she will get over it. The smell changed for her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I did put them in a pen together and she forces her way out. She runs like she is scared of the doeling. I even tried putting baking soda on the buds and it didn't help. I initially brought the doeling back in to the barn and presented her "rear first" so she could smell it was her doeling and she bolted. She never acted that way with her other kiddings..

I just put vinegar on the doelings burnt buds and it seems to neutralize the burnt odor, I locked the doe in with the doeling again and will be watching on the barn cam. She is still running from it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

try putting something on moms nose and babies bum..a smell of some kind..so when mom smells baby..they smell the same..i remember reading this trick for grafting but cant remember what was used lol..vicks maybe?


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## Snookie (Mar 25, 2015)

I second the scent on the mom's nose. My doe was rejecting her kids after disbudding and i put some Molly's Salve on her nose because that is what I had and it has a strong smell. It worked. I believe I had read Vicks Vapor rub would work too (probably read it here)


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks but I would think her smelling something strong would not allow her to smell the baby which she wouldn't let her milk without being able to smell it's her baby. She won't go near it to smell the butt.



Snookie said:


> I second the scent on the mom's nose. My doe was rejecting her kids after disbudding and i put some Molly's Salve on her nose because that is what I had and it has a strong smell. It worked. I believe I had read Vicks Vapor rub would work too (probably read it here)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you put it on moms nose and near babies rear...it tricks mom into thinking baby smells like her....its worth a try in the mean time keep holding her to feed baby until she snaps out of it...Hopefully snaps out of it...


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks I presented the butt first and didn't even get close for her to smell, that is what is puzzleing.. She is acting scared to death of the baby and I can't get near her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Once in a while that happens and you end up with a bottle baby.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

baby wants nothing to do with the bottle, I've tried every technique. I guess mother nature will do what mother nature does


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

2 wreks can be hard to get them on a bottle..but not impossible. .let her go 12 hours hungry..over night is the easiest...then work your majic to get her on the bottle...at first it might be pulsing the bottle and ket milk run down her throat to sallow .but she will get it and start to suckle...it takes a ton of patients but can be done...and the reward is worth the effort


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## BOERKING (Jan 5, 2015)

Its vaseline bot vicks put some on the mothers nose and on the babys butt lol


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

It's been way more than 24 hours, more like 36+ hours even kept them penned over night. I've tried everything the only thing I can do is let mother nature take its course.



happybleats said:


> 2 wreks can be hard to get them on a bottle..but not impossible. .let her go 12 hours hungry..over night is the easiest...then work your majic to get her on the bottle...at first it might be pulsing the bottle and ket milk run down her throat to sallow .but she will get it and start to suckle...it takes a ton of patients but can be done...and the reward is worth the effort


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

You can force her to nurse. Pry the mouth open, pop the nipple in, and let her chew it around. I have taught a 7 week old kid. You could also tube the milk if it gets desperate. Or even (much easier) tie momma up and let baby nurse on a schedule.

Tying momma up for baby may be the best way to go at this. I don't think you need to give up on her quite yet - disbudding is not natural and goats can get confused by these things.


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## GoldenCreek15 (May 13, 2015)

You could try and get another doe that has enough milk to support her kids and this kid. Don't give up on the kid, you could also just give the kid to someone else to deal with


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

BOERKING said:


> Its vaseline bot vicks put some on the mothers nose and on the babys butt lol


Not Vaseline, that has no smell of it's own. You want to use a strong scent to overpower the burnt smell in mamma's nose. Vanilla extract is good, or a SMALL dab of Vicks.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Did not work, she couldn't smell whose baby it was.

my friend came over and we had to contain her and let the baby fill up, however, my friend said she has never seen a goat go from being nice to so afraid and skiddish for no reason. The smell from the babies horns was NOT the issue. Again, I presented read first and didn't even get with 5 feet when the ran.



CritterCarnival said:


> Not Vaseline, that has no smell of it's own. You want to use a strong scent to overpower the burnt smell in mamma's nose. Vanilla extract is good, or a SMALL dab of Vicks.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

not an option



GoldenCreek15 said:


> You could try and get another doe that has enough milk to support her kids and this kid. Don't give up on the kid, you could also just give the kid to someone else to deal with


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## GoldenCreek15 (May 13, 2015)

So what's exactly going on with the doe? It sounds like she's afraid of her baby? Did she become afraid of people too?


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I wish I knew what has going on. I have had her since a baby. She just turned 2 yrs and this is her second kidding.

She was fine before I took the baby. I walked in the barn towards her to present the kid rear first, approx 5-6 feet away from her and she ran. She runs from me. She runs from the kid. She runs from my friend who came over and has never seen anything like it. She hides from what I don't know. All my goats are sweet and loving and people friendly and this is so weird.

I just went in the center area with oatmeal cookies. The other goats came up and I was giving them pieces. She saw it and she came out of hiding being the pallet and jumped on me for a cookie and then ran away after getting it. Things are so confusing I don't know what to think.

My friend said once the baby poops after drinking her milk (which we got the babies tummy full by both of us cornering her and her laying down... my friend lifted the leg and the kid got a belly full) that she will recognize her kid again from pooping????

I haven't a clue what happened as I have been disbudding and doing this for a few years now and nothing like this has ever happened.



GoldenCreek15 said:


> So what's exactly going on with the doe? It sounds like she's afraid of her baby? Did she become afraid of people too?


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## GoldenCreek15 (May 13, 2015)

Hmmm this is really odd. She's acting like someone mistreated her or she had a sudden memory loss and forgot she had a baby and forgot who you were.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Well, it would seem that way, but she knows her name is what treats are LOL

I just caught her with a treat and strattled her and kept feeding her treats and the baby got some milk. She smells the kid while she is getting milk and turns her head and continues to eat. strange...I would have to contain her w/treats..I wonder if she will start doing it on her own.



GoldenCreek15 said:


> Hmmm this is really odd. She's acting like someone mistreated her or she had a sudden memory loss and forgot she had a baby and forgot who you were.


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## GoldenCreek15 (May 13, 2015)

Maybe a lot more of this will be beneficial for the doe. At least this was a step in their gut direction. I'd say she had a bit of memory loss for a bit, the severity of it I can't tell you, I've had horses do this to me as well, one day dead broke you could put a 6 month old on and the next the horse attempted to kill anyone who got near it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I think doing what you are doing ( holding , feeding treats while baby nurses) should help her return to normal..something freaked her out big time...


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Is there any explanation of this phenomenom for lack of a better description?



GoldenCreek15 said:


> Maybe a lot more of this will be beneficial for the doe. At least this was a step in their gut direction. I'd say she had a bit of memory loss for a bit, the severity of it I can't tell you, I've had horses do this to me as well, one day dead broke you could put a 6 month old on and the next the horse attempted to kill anyone who got near it.


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## GoldenCreek15 (May 13, 2015)

Honestly unless she had a really fast stroke I honestly don't know, I'm not a vet myself, All I have to say is it takes tons of time and effort to get an animal to get their head back on straight, just keep working with her.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GoldenCreek15 said:


> Hmmm this is really odd. She's acting like someone mistreated her or she had a sudden memory loss and forgot she had a baby and forgot who you were.


I disagree. She is acting like she is very afraid of the burnt hair and skin smell from the disbudding.

Did she get any better, Ladyharley?


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

You would think that smelling burnt horns was the case, but she wasn't even near a smell from disbudding as it was done 100 yards away and I don't have that smell on me and were in an RV. The baby had not even come close to her in the barn to warrant that kind of reaction. She was the only one in the barn when we were disbudding in the RV. None of the other goats were in the barn with her.

So, I had a friend some cover and both of us held her and let the baby nurse for a few seconds. She threw herself down and my friend lifted the does leg while she was down, so the baby could get some milk. Then later in the day I held her got the baby some milk again for a few seconds and the doe kept smelling the kids butt over and over.

The next day, I straddled her and was feeding her my oatmeal cookies and that seem to distract her and the baby was nursing as long as I held the doe, but when I let go she ran.

The third day in the am, I let them out and got the kid and felt her tummy and it had milk. Hmmmmm. So I went out a few hours later and she was nursing the baby on her own like nothing happened.. My friend said once she smell "her milk" coming out of the kid (kid peeing on the ground and her flemming) she knew it was hers, don't know if that is true or not.

Then she was friendly with me again like nothing had ever happened. What a freak out this has been. Of all the years I've done this nothing like this has ever happened.

Yes, If the doe had smelt the burned horns I can understand that. but she never even got near the kid to smell it.

Things are back to normal...I really don't want to go through that again (scared for the kid). If there is a cause, it can be fixed but when one doesn't know then it is totally confusing.
:stars:



Tenacross said:


> I disagree. She is acting like she is very afraid of the burnt hair and skin smell from the disbudding.
> 
> Did she get any better, Ladyharley?


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm so glad things are back to normal. What an ordeal! I wonder if she could hear the kids yelling when they were disbudded and all the noise/distress freaked her out a bit. My Nigerian can get really weird if she thinks I'm "doing something" to one of the other goats...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The kid's head would have had the burnt smell on it. Glad things are back to normal.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes, but she wasn't even near the kid to smell it yet.



ksalvagno said:


> The kid's head would have had the burnt smell on it. Glad things are back to normal.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Good thought, but this isn't her first merry go round LOL.. I've been doing this a long time and none of the goats have reacted this way. Interesting tho, she still had the instinct to call for the baby and the baby calling to her during this ordeal... Oh well, yeah thank goodness things are back to normal... can't get it out of my head tho.



groovyoldlady said:


> I'm so glad things are back to normal. What an ordeal! I wonder if she could hear the kids yelling when they were disbudded and all the noise/distress freaked her out a bit. My Nigerian can get really weird if she thinks I'm "doing something" to one of the other goats...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

ladyharley said:


> Yes, but she wasn't even near the kid to smell it yet.


You told us: " I walked in the barn towards her to present the kid rear first, approx 5-6 feet away from her and she ran." And "I did put them in a pen together and she forces her way out."

That is close enough for your doe to smell the burnt smell on the kids head. I can smell the burnt on a disbudded kid myself and goats can smell way better than humans. I'm not sure why you are so adamant that we are wrong about this. The smell was different. That is what scared her.

I'm so glad you were able to talk her out of it and she has decided to accept her kid again.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Because the way we do it, there isn't a smell on US. Where the doe was and how the barn is aireated she could not have smelled the burn with the kids head under my arm pit and rear out that far away from her.. I have enough experience to know that was NOT the case.

I did not "talk her out" of anything. You cannot talk a goat out of anything LOL



Tenacross said:


> You told us: " I walked in the barn towards her to present the kid rear first, approx 5-6 feet away from her and she ran." And "I did put them in a pen together and she forces her way out."
> 
> That is close enough for your doe to smell the burnt smell on the kids head. I can smell the burnt on a disbudded kid myself and goats can smell way better than humans. I'm not sure why you are so adamant that we are wrong about this. The smell was different. That is what scared her.
> 
> I'm so glad you were able to talk her out of it and she has decided to accept her kid again.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Animals are so strange! I am glad to hear she is back to normal!

Almost 2 weeks ago, we took the market wethers and a young doe being shown in commercial <weight> classes to get a mandatory tag for market/commercial animals.
The young doe was 9 weeks old, and she is still nursing on mom. When we got her home, the next day I noticed the mom being a bit hateful to her baby, when the baby would nurse, she'd sniff her tag, and bite at her ear then run away. I was worried I might have to go ahead and wean! Thankfully it's gotten a little better, but the mom still does that now and then. We'll be weaning in about a week, so I am not real worried, but so strange, especially since the doe didn't react that way when we did the scrapie tag!


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Exactly.... I don't know what everyone is so focused on burn smell. Something must have happened in the barn...what I don't know. I just wanted the kid to get back to mama's milk.

Thank you for this..



HoosierShadow said:


> Animals are so strange! I am glad to hear she is back to normal!
> 
> Almost 2 weeks ago, we took the market wethers and a young doe being shown in commercial <weight> classes to get a mandatory tag for market/commercial animals.
> The young doe was 9 weeks old, and she is still nursing on mom. When we got her home, the next day I noticed the mom being a bit hateful to her baby, when the baby would nurse, she'd sniff her tag, and bite at her ear then run away. I was worried I might have to go ahead and wean! Thankfully it's gotten a little better, but the mom still does that now and then. We'll be weaning in about a week, so I am not real worried, but so strange, especially since the doe didn't react that way when we did the scrapie tag!


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