# Is my doe too small?



## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I have a young Saanen doe that weighs about 40lbs. She was born in March but not sure when, this would make her 5 months to almost 6 months old. She looks small and under weight. Should she weigh more or is her weight ok?
Andi


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't have experience with the larger breeds as far as what they should weigh at a certain age, but I can say that my pygmy/nigi doeling was born mid February and weighs 24 pounds so I would guess that your Saanen is on track with weight....aren't Saanens slightly smaller than other breeds like Alpine, Nubian and Toggenberg?


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Saanans are the largest dairy breed. I am not sure what she should weigh... But I think my Munchies weigh about 40 pounds and they are late april kids.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

First have you actually weighed her or is that your estimate? they can easily weigh more then you think.

Some lines grow faster while others are slower growing. So if she is small right now it doesnt mean she wont be good size when full grown.

when did you get her?


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

she weighs about the same as my alpine kids born at the same time. I have been thinking my kids are small as well. I have had other breeders their does from march are already pushing eighty lbs. My kids have been treated for worms and cocci, had fecals run and everything looks normal. they get good quality orchard alfalfa mix hay from eastern washington. and a good grain ration that i mix myself. i dont know what else to do to make them grow....
beth


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

StaceyRoop said:


> First have you actually weighed her or is that your estimate? they can easily weigh more then you think.
> 
> Some lines grow faster while others are slower growing. So if she is small right now it doesnt mean she wont be good size when full grown.
> 
> when did you get her?


I weighed her with the weight tape. Shes not real happy about being picked up while I step on the scale with her so this was the easiest way to get an approx weight. I measured her around the withers as shown on a how to site.

She just seems small to me. I have seen other goats and they look much larger at this age. She eats, pees, poops and runs around normally. She gets grass hay, browse, and 2 cups of meat goat pellets per day. This is to keep the kids size down without compromising her/their health.

I got her the middle of July and the woman said she was born in March but couldn't remember when.

Unfortunately she ran with a buck her entire life and is more than likely bred. I listened to her belly with a stethoscope and there was a distinct separate very fast heartbeat. She was calm and her heartbeat was much slower as I listened to it also to make sure. We are watching her closely as we don't know when the breeding took place but kids should appear sometime before December. She was given to me because the woman couldn't take care of her and her buck friend. I do not have the buck as he was given to another. Lutelyse has not been an option as my vet will not supply it. In fact he will not supply ANYTHING unless I bring her in for a stressful visit for which he charges both arms as payment.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I would find it very strange if she is indeed pregnant. large breed dairy goats rarely go into heat before August and for a young doe to go into heat in the spring just after being born would be even rarer. Of course things do happen but I would be very surprised.

I have never tried to find a heart beat on a pregnant doe-- from what I have heard you have to check after they are 3 months pregnant to even hear anything. Chances are you heard the rumen. :shrug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

can you get a picture of her rear? we call this the pooch test.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh that's not good that she might be bred! Maybe it's taking a lot out of her being as young as she is. That's to bad they left her in with the buck. I'm not really sure, but that might be why she's not growing....Good luck!


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Stacey,
I had trouble getting past the rumen sounds but finally did. The first thing that made us think she was pregnant was a small udder forming. Her udder fills my hand when cupped. She also has inch long teats. Her udder hasn't grown any bigger in the month we have had her but her belly has. I will post current pictures in the morning. Work calls tonight. Here is a picture from when we got her. I was hoping she was unbred due to her age but this does not seem to be the case. Please forgive her dirty butt in the pooch picture. She had a rough trip and was not happy about the whole situation and butt cleaning was out of the question.
Andi


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Well the other 2 pictures did not show so I will try this again


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

By the picture she does appear a bit small, lucky for you she isn't pure Saanen, she appears to be mixed with Nubian possibly, so you can hope that the kids she may have won't be as big as Saanen kids.

I would try and weigh her on a scale if you can, I've found that the tape isn't always as accurate as it says. 40 lbs is a bit small for her age.

If she was born in March she would almost be five months old now, so if she was running with a buck say she got bred at 3 months, that would be almost 2 months along. There is a certain point during pregnancy when lutalyse cannot be given because it will harm the doe besides aborting the kids but I cannot think when that date is right now  Do you happen to know the breed of buck she may be bred too?

Stacey, yes dairy breeds tend to only come into heat in the fall, but I've found that with little doe kids, no matter what breed, if they are running with a buck and even if they aren't they can still come into heat even though it isn't the right season.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

first attachment didnt come through.

she is a pretty doe, certainly a mix breed but cute all the same


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

OK I re did the 2 pictures so hopefully they will show up now. I was told she is Saanen x Boer. Those Pictures were taken July 17. 
Andi


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Pooch says yes to me


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ah the boer is what made her cycle all year round so she cycled in the "to early to cycle" for a saanen

That makes more sense now. Unfortunatly your little darling does look pregnant, again with those facts thats why it is more possible.

I would have a vet on stand by --- and pray for twins!


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Susanne, I cannot say for certain, but I remember the topic about aborting bred kids coming up on a yahoo list one time. It seems to me that there was a certain point in the pregnancy when lutalyse could not longer be used because aborting the kids could actually harm the doe in the process. The subject was on kids, not adult goats.

Also, having bred Saanens myself, I have never had a goat come up with a precocious udder this early in life, even in my LaManchas and Oberhaslis whom I've had precocious quite a few times. Its always around breeding season or after that their udders start to show up, actually most of the time when they are dry yearlings. Never had one show up in a kid, and the ones that do show up, always fill up lopsided never even like her doe.

Also, pooch test is not a reliable method only if you don't know how to do it :wink: I've been using pooch for a couple years now and it does work as long as you know what you are looking for.


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## Ivy (Aug 9, 2008)

She doent look like she has any Boer in her at all but she sure looks mixed. Could she be mixed with a small breed?

As for PG, I would be prepared for the worse and hope for the best.

If she has twins or triplets she may do ok.

My 130 pound, 2 year old, Boer just had twins and they were 2 pounds each. 
Yours may have really tiny kids too and then may do fine.

Personally, I would not try to get her to gain weight or anything now. I would wait till after she kids. I wouldn't want the kids to gain and be to big.
I would only grain a little, maybe, in the last stretch of her pregnancy.
I would just pasture her all the time and let her browse till she has her kids.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## artsy_farmgirl (Mar 1, 2008)

If your doe is bred that would explain why her growth would be slowed... She looks healthy to me, and I don't think aborting is really necessary as long as you make sure that you are present for the birth. I knew a person with a doe that got bred once at three monthes old(she was small and could get out of her pen and into the buck's). Didn't even know she was pregnant until she delivered because it was in the middle of winter still(early february and way below freezing) and she had a very fluffy coat. It's a higher risk for them to be bred young, but definately not the end of the world. 
She does look like she could be a boer/saanen cross, which is common. If so, she may have a wider pelvis than a usual dairy doe?? Will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.. Do you know what kind of buck she was kept with/how big he was?


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

The buck was a little older than she was at the time. I don't know what he was and the woman only said he was a goat, :roll: DUH. I don't know where she got the 2 goats from so I have no way of knowing or finding out their parentage. We are still watching and waiting right now.
Andi


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

I have a saanen x kiko cross and she looks very similar to your girl...forgot to say that my doeling was born in march and weighs 41lbs....never ran with or near a buck......her weight doesnt sound horrible and she may do just fine during pregnancy, just take extra special care of her.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Well shes looking rounder. Udder still the same but her vulva is changing. Sometimes it looks puffy and swollen and others it looks normal. I can see at least one kid moving around in there. Shes gotten to where she wants and gives a lot of attention. She will lick my arms and hands for a good 5 minutes at a time. Shes becoming very vocal when I am out in the pen with her and she screams when I leave. She packs away her pellets in no time flat and really chows down on the hay but is starting to ignore grass and browse. I will have to see if I can get some new pictures up.
Andi


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like she is progressing.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

It looks to me as if she is pregnant but I am no "expert". Her udder is forming. It could be a false pregnancy but I HIGHLY doubt it.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I thought she was bred but am also no "expert". I've never seen a "precocious (sp?) udder" but do not have a lot of goats and have not been doing this as long as others. If one of my doe is developing an udder I assume she is pregnant, never had a false pregnancy. Is that pretty common in goats or no? No one I know of around here has had that happen. . . .


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

It happens in dogs and other animals so i assume it happens in goats as well.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I had a false pregnancy in my doe once -- she started an udder and all then nothing and she eventually "deflated" around her due date. :shrug:


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## alyssa_romine (Oct 5, 2007)

Crocee, any updates???


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