# ADGA legs, permanent champions, and titles



## Ride4ever

I have several does that have won grand champions at shows, one that should have 3 legs, but I can't see them showing up on the ADGA goat search website. Do you have to turn anything in for it to show up or is there a mistake? And like I have a doe I bred that I sold and that now shows up as being a star milker, but I don't know how that got on there? Thanks


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## ksalvagno

I would call ADGA and ask them.


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## KW Farms

An ADGA goat has to have 3 grand CH wins/3 legs to get a permanent champion title. Those in charge of the show are in charge of sending the necessary paperwork/show results to ADGA.

As for the milk star, the doe probably went on milk test after you sold her and earned her star then.


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## ptgoats45

There also has to be at least 10 goats of that breed shown when your doe won her champion. Even if there was 9 seniors in the show the grand won't count. They also have to earn all 3 champions as a senior unless they earned a dry leg in which case I think they have the dry leg and 2 champion wins as a senior. Sometimes legs are posted as restricted and some are unrestricted, not really sure the difference but your best bet would be to call ADGA and find out. Under the goat search it won't show if they have won 1 or 2 legs only if they have actually earned their CH status. On the goats you are looking up, when you click on them next to their name in parentheses it will have either AM for American or PB for Purebred and next to that it will have CH if they have earned their permanent CH. 

If you can login to the ADGA member area and if you subscribe to the subscription reports you can search your goats on there and it will show their show wins if they have any and should list if they were restricted or not.

For the star, the doe was either entered in a one day milk test and earned enough points to get her star or was on DHIR and produced enough milk, protein or butterfat to earn her star.


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## Ride4ever

All right. I will do both of those things. Thanks guys. None of my goats have CH so I will stop freaking out about it. Oh, but I thought they had to win 1 dry leg and 3 milking legs or 4 milking legs to be a CH? is that true or false?


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## ptgoats45

I think it is 1 dry leg and 2 senior legs or 3 senior legs. I had an Alpine that had 2 senior legs, the breeder told me she only needed one more to be a permanent champion. I tried to find where it said on ADGA but I couldn't find it lol


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## Cadence

Ride4ever said:


> All right. I will do both of those things. Thanks guys. None of my goats have CH so I will stop freaking out about it. Oh, but I thought they had to win 1 dry leg and 3 milking legs or 4 milking legs to be a CH? is that true or false?


I have paid for the subscription reports - if you want to post her ID number I can look up how many champions she has won and how many more she needs.

They need 3 legs to be a champion (under at least 2 judges). 2 of those legs need to be unrestricted. Unrestricted legs need to be as a milker, with enough animals, and at an open show.


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## freedomstarfarm

Candence is right show wins can be checked on the subscription reports if you have those. It will show wins that are and are not recognized. I just added that service this year and love it. 
She is also correct on the win number and type. A Jr leg would be a restricted leg and only one of those counts.


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## Cadence

Ride4ever said:


> I have several does that have won grand champions at shows, one that should have 3 legs, but I can't see them showing up on the ADGA goat search website. Do you have to turn anything in for it to show up or is there a mistake? And like I have a doe I bred that I sold and that now shows up as being a star milker, but I don't know how that got on there? Thanks


So I did a little researching about goats you own, both with your herd name and without. I'm creepy like that, sorry. :angel2:

There isn't a direct search so I had to guess on a few.

Anyway, the only one I can see who has been at 3 shows is Annie. Unfortunately there were not enough animals or not enough milkers to make it an official show. So she has 1 restricted leg. I can send you the pdf if you want to see it.

I also couldn't tell which would had earned her *M. Do you mean she was appraised?


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## Ride4ever

Cadence said:


> So I did a little researching about goats you own, both with your herd name and without. I'm creepy like that, sorry. :angel2:
> 
> There isn't a direct search so I had to guess on a few.
> 
> Anyway, the only one I can see who has been at 3 shows is Annie. Unfortunately there were not enough animals or not enough milkers to make it an official show. So she has 1 restricted leg. I can send you the pdf if you want to see it.
> 
> I also couldn't tell which would had earned her *M. Do you mean she was appraised?


 Thanks! That was nice. Now I thought she had her dry leg. Annie has gotten grand at 3 shows. I thought it was more, but my fair isn't sanctioned ADGA (she was BIS every year she has been shown there). I guess there wasn't enough goats at any of those shows. So will that mean she can't become a permant chamption or does she just need to win 3 times as a milker?(those were all dry wins). I know Leah has been appraised. The owner of the *M told me she had it(i don't own the goat, I sold it.) So if she doesn't have it I am not surprised. Where could I get this service? Because I would love to know on some of my does. I have a doe that got 8th at Nationals and I would love to know what she won before that. I have a few other goats I would like to see where they land too. Oh and I don't find it weird to look up other peoples goats. But how did you know my herd name? lol


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## Cadence

Ride4ever said:


> Thanks! That was nice. Now I thought she had her dry leg. Annie has gotten grand at 3 shows. I thought it was more, but my fair isn't sanctioned ADGA (she was BIS every year she has been shown there). I guess there wasn't enough goats at any of those shows. So will that mean she can't become a permanent champion or does she just need to win 3 times as a milker?(those were all dry wins). I know Leah has been appraised. The owner of the *M told me she had it(i don't own the goat, I sold it.) So if she doesn't have it I am not surprised. Where could I get this service? Because I would love to know on some of my does. I have a doe that got 8th at Nationals and I would love to know what she won before that. I have a few other goats I would like to see where they land too. Oh and I don't find it weird to look up other peoples goats. But how did you know my herd name? lol


The subscription report is $10 for the year. You can add it on the adga website. It doesn't show every placing - only when you get Grand or Reserve (basically only when you sign those papers at a show (the really large ones that the secretaries are filling out). It is great to find out which were "official" and which were not. Annie has 1 restricted leg - so she only needs 2 more as a milker. She just needs to earn them at shows where there are enough animals and it is an open show.

The *M hasn't been designated yet. It is possible she has it and it isn't entered yet, but not something I can see, and if you suspect it was an exaggeration, I wouldn't disagree.

How did I find your herd name? Um... you listed off in another post your goats names, you said you raise Toggs. I narrowed down the search to animals with those name who are Toggs, who were born in the last 5 yrs or so. When I found a herd name that fit all of those features I made a leap of logic. Plus the owner name matched your sign-off name so I felt like it was a strong guess.


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## ptgoats45

A doe will earn her *M if she is either A. on DHIR test for 305 days (more or less) and produces either enough milk, butterfat or protein to qualify for her *M. These numbers can be found in the Guidebook and the amounts differ depending on the age of the goat. or B. she was taken to a one day milk test and earned enough points (18) to qualify for her star. They earn points based on the lbs of milk produced, lb of butter fat, and the number of days in milk. A doe can not earn a *M through linear appraisal. If she was appraised that should be in the adga database and if you look her up on adgagenetics you should be able to click on Linear History and it will show you her score.

I have a Saanen doe that earned her *M at a one day test (Her name is JLT Ranch Camilla), when you look her up on ADGA genetics before clicking on her name under SG it shows she is a GCH (the CH coming from going grand 3 times as a Senior and the G being added because she earned her *M and is also a permanent champion, if they are not a permanent CH but earn their star they do not get the G they just get the *M added to their papers), under Eval there is a P which is for Production, meaning she was tested at some time. When you click on her and if you click on USDA Data there is no data because she was never on the 305 day DHIR testing, because she has a production eval one can conclude that she was at a one day milk test and that is how she got that. So if the doe you are talking about has a production eval and no USDA data then she was at a one day milk test, that of course doesn't necessarily mean that she earned her star or not. If she does not have a production eval then there is no way she could have earned her *M. Hope that helps some.

If you can access the Member Services area of the ADGA website, go to Look Up Goats then look up your ever owned list. Find that doe and if she did earn her *M it should be off to the right side of her name. It will usually be entered automatically if they are on DHIR when they complete their lactation or after the one day milk test. 

If your doe has her dry leg then she only needs to go grand 2 times as a senior, but there has to be at least 10 senior does shown at the show you go to and it has to be ADGA sanctioned which I know is hard with Toggs (Saanens are the same). If your fair consistently doesn't have enough Toggs, Saanens, Sables, or Oberhasli's I would see if they would group the breeds together that typically don't make sanction into the All Other Purebred class that way you can end up with at least 10 total does so the win counts. It might make it harder to win, but if it counts then she can earn her permanent champion.


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## Ride4ever

Thank you everyone! I really don't think she has her *M. They were not telling me the truth or just were wrong. It doesn't really matter. My fair is...difficult for diary goat showers. Really any goat showers. It is slightly anti-goat. So we do not have a ADGA show. It is only our Junior fair show and it can't count because it is not ADGA. And we have tried to have them bring back their ADGA show(they had it until a few years ago) even offering to help for free and it wouldn't cost them anymore because they already have a dairy judge there. Yeah so. No way I can help there. I love adgagentics.com one of my favs now that I have found it. 
Cadence: That is so funny. It is truthfully something I would do, though I don't know if I would have thought of looking at the sign-off name. I will check out it out on ADGA.


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## ksalvagno

You ought to go to some other shows in Ohio. There are plenty of sanctioned shows in Ohio.


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## Ride4ever

Oh. I got to the Mid-Ohio show, the Buckeye Classic, the Hoosier Classic, Wayne County Open, and Ohio State Fair. (This year will be the first year I go to the State fair and the Buckeye Classic). So have lots of other shows. Most of those are double-ringed as well.


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## ciwheeles

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I've been reading through this and I have a question. It's probably a stupid one, but does a doe have to have her dry leg to get to eventually be a permanent CH or GCH? I understand the part about the dry leg and needing two more wins from there, just curious as to if they can get the same status by winning three legs as a senior doe.


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## Ride4ever

I have the same question. Forgot to ask. Thanks for reminding me.


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## Cadence

ciwheeles said:


> I don't want to hijack your thread, but I've been reading through this and I have a question. It's probably a stupid one, but does a doe have to have her dry leg to get to eventually be a permanent CH or GCH? I understand the part about the dry leg and needing two more wins from there, just curious as to if they can get the same status by winning three legs as a senior doe.


I can answer that one for you - all the judges take tests of this stuff 

CH = 3 show wins. They can be a combination of 3 Unrestricted or 2 Unrestricted and 1 Restricted. If you want, I can list the ways to get a restricted leg, but it is a bit long 

GCH = the animal has earn the CH (with the show wins) and has also earned her *M either in the 1 day test or the DHIA or by having enough daughter earn their *M

SG = Superior Genetics - the animal was in the top 15% of her breed at some point in her life. Calculated by both type (linear appraisal) and milk records. Again, can be earned by offspring's awards.

SGCH = The animal earned her Superior Genetics award and her Championship from type, production, and show data.

And as a side note: CH, GCH, and SGCH can all show in the "champion challenge class" when it is offered. SG-only cannot exhibit in this class


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## ciwheeles

Cadence said:


> I can answer that one for you - all the judges take tests of this stuff
> 
> CH = 3 show wins. They can be a combination of 3 Unrestricted or 2 Unrestricted and 1 Restricted. If you want, I can list the ways to get a restricted leg, but it is a bit long
> 
> GCH = the animal has earn the CH (with the show wins) and has also earned her *M either in the 1 day test or the DHIA or by having enough daughter earn their *M
> 
> SG = Superior Genetics - the animal was in the top 15% of her breed at some point in her life. Calculated by both type (linear appraisal) and milk records. Again, can be earned by offspring's awards.
> 
> SGCH = The animal earned her Superior Genetics award and her Championship from type, production, and show data.
> 
> And as a side note: CH, GCH, and SGCH can all show in the "champion challenge class" when it is offered. SG-only cannot exhibit in this class


That was very helpful. Thank you!


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## Ride4ever

Cadence said:


> I can answer that one for you - all the judges take tests of this stuff
> 
> CH = 3 show wins. They can be a combination of 3 Unrestricted or 2 Unrestricted and 1 Restricted. If you want, I can list the ways to get a restricted leg, but it is a bit long
> 
> GCH = the animal has earn the CH (with the show wins) and has also earned her *M either in the 1 day test or the DHIA or by having enough daughter earn their *M
> 
> SG = Superior Genetics - the animal was in the top 15% of her breed at some point in her life. Calculated by both type (linear appraisal) and milk records. Again, can be earned by offspring's awards.
> 
> SGCH = The animal earned her Superior Genetics award and her Championship from type, production, and show data.
> 
> And as a side note: CH, GCH, and SGCH can all show in the "champion challenge class" when it is offered. SG-only cannot exhibit in this class


Thank you so much. This was exactly what I needed. I am going to print this off and keep it. Are you a goat judge? That would explain why you know all of this so well. lol


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