# Which disbudding iron?



## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I have never disbudded, so all of this is a little foreign to me. I have a herd of Boers, some I now wish I would have disbudded because they like to get their head hung in the fence occasionally. And I have recently added a couple Nigerian Types that just gave me 4 tiny babies that will be sold to pet homes as wethers. But with pet wethers, most people like them to be hornless. And I have decided it will be nice to start disbudding the boer girls I keep also.

So I need a disbudding iron that will do tiny Nigerians, but will still work on big boer kids. And is beginner friendly. If there is such a thing? The kids are only a couple days old, but I still don't know if I will get the iron shipped in time to do them. So it will be more for future kids next year, I just want to go ahead and get it now.

I have asked around to a few different breeder friends that show dairy breeds. And I was told to get a Reinhardt with the goat tip, because the calf tip is too big for the Nigerians. Ordered off Jeffers.

Can anyone help me out and be more descriptive? When I looked I saw the Reinhardt X-30 that has lots of different sizes and mixed reviews. And the Reinhardt X-50 that had multiple tip options and pretty good reviews. But I have no idea what size for each would be better? And I know the product description doesn't always work for what it says it will, so I am hoping some of y'all that have already tried them will help me out. Thank you in advance!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Half inch tip will work for both. Get the X50 and get a buck tip.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep, x50 with a half inch tip.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Thank you! Maybe I can get it here on time to do these.

I have watched piles of videos on how to do it, but it does look very intimidating. I guess the only way to really figure it out is by actually doing it a couple times. 

Do you have to give any meds with it? Antibiotics or anything like that after?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ask your vet for Banamine. And have a few bags of frozen corn in the freezer for you to plop on the head. And have a way to hold that head absolutely still.

The X-50 comes with a 3/4" tip. You have to order it with that tip then buy an extra tip, such as the 1/2" tip. And/or the buck tip. That makes me so darn mad. Those extra tips are not cheap.

If you go with the X-30, the 1/2" tip is the one to order.

Whatever you choose, I do not recommend that itty bitty ND tip. IMO way too small. Won't do the job.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Thank you! I help out the 4H kids with their market goats, so the vet gives me Banamine to keep on hand. When is the best time to give it? And how much should a tiny 3-5 lb goat get? 

Yea the X-50 is is $100 on its own with the 3/4 tip. 
The Buck tip is $20
And the 1/2 tip is $20
Plus shipping from Jeffers.  Wish they would just let you pick which one you want. 

I am just going to go ahead and get the X50 with both extra tips, my luck I will never be able to find it again if I wait. It's not near as bad as what I thought it would be. I know I will get my money's worth, and by the reviews left it says it is very heavy duty. With only 10 or so kids a year, I think it will last a while hopefully.

I also read a review that said to buy welding gloves?? Because it is such a big hot piece of equipment, it will burn the mess out of you and the kid if you let it. I am really scared of user error, how big is it? Is it really that hard to manuver? I'm going to have help holding the kids, but I am not the biggest, strongest, or most graceful person out there. So now I'm scared just thinking about it.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

Buddex.
I do mine at a week to two weeks old. This has a tiny little wire on a ceramic tip. Clean hole to the skull in a few seconds with virtually no ancillary tissue damage.
https://bainbridgevet.com.au/shop/buddex-cordless-dehorner/


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Georgia, Other countries have awesome products. Just remember there are electrical systems involved and you may end up having to buy some sort of converter. I'm too ignorant to advise further.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

GaGoats2017 said:


> I also read a review that said to buy welding gloves?? Because it is such a big hot piece of equipment, it will burn the mess out of you and the kid if you let it. I am really scared of user error, how big is it? Is it really that hard to manuver? I'm going to have help holding the kids, but I am not the biggest, strongest, or most graceful person out there. So now I'm scared just thinking about it.


Order a kid box to hold them. It should come the same time as the iron. SO vital to keep the kid still...


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.leedstone.com/horn-stop-rechargeable-dehorner.html

Here is the German made, but American marketed unit. It plugs into USA 110 V, and charges the internal battery. This is the model I own.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

The buddex looks amazing!...But I am thinking it's a little too high tech for what I am wanting. 
Maybe in a few years if I end up liking the hornless goat thing, and once I know I can actually go through with it on my own. I'm not a crier at all, but I know for sure there will be some tears shed until I get used to doing it. I know they don't even notice it once it is over, but just the thought hurts my heart. 

I'll look into the kid boxes! I thought people just made them, but if I can buy one that would be even better. I know it will definitely help out.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Anything German Made, US Compatible, has my attention.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I bought my first Kid Box. I'll look.


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## thestockdogcompany (Feb 26, 2012)

It is real easy. Trim around the horn buds with a little battery powered mustache/beard trimmer. Put buddex over bud, press down firmly and twist back and forth until you hit the skull, flip wrist, and pop out all horn tissue. Self cauterized, no bleeding, no flies. A little spritz of blue coat or iodine if you must.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Thank you so much! I'll go back and keep reading old disbudding threads. Maybe I will have the confidence when the time comes.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

GaGoats2017 said:


> .. I also read a review that said to buy welding gloves?? Because it is such a big hot piece of equipment, it will burn the mess out of you and the kid if you let it. I am really scared of user error, how big is it? Is it really that hard to manuver? I'm going to have help holding the kids, but I am not the biggest, strongest, or most graceful person out there. So now I'm scared just thinking about it.


I never use gloves. No problem so far.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Suzanne_Tyler Do you use Banamine? And if so, how much for a kid being disbudded? Georgia asked earlier, you see, and I don't have an answer.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I use the X 50, with the tip it came with. I don't use gloves, my husband holds and I burn. I burn 10 solid seconds, a couple of second break, and ten more seconds on each side. I pop the cap off. Then I spray with Alushield.

I have been eyeing a Portasol though. For now what I have works.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

^^^^ your brave!!! I hate gloves I can’t do anything with them on but I will use one on my left hand that holds the kids head and it has saved me a few times. I don’t get huge welding gloves though it is just thin like deer skin gloves just that way if the kid jerks and it bumps my finger or hand it won’t burn me.
Maria rose where did you get your kid box from? I have been shopping for a new one since I broke mine and can’t find a place that sells them! 
The difference I have found with the X30 and the X50 is simply how hot it heats up. I got the X30 first and hated it, it wouldn’t hold its heat. I bought a X50 and loved it but left it out in the rain and it croaked so went back to the 30. Bought a new one and I ended up throwing it away it ticked me off so bad! The smaller tip wouldn’t fit in the calf tip well and would only heat up half of it and one day the tip just fell off and I lost the screw. Bought another tip and same thing. Went back to my X30 but learned that if I put a bucket over it as it heats up it holds its heat WAY better! It still takes longer to heat up between kids so I’ll just find a chore to do for 10 minutes or so between kids so is not the end of the world just with roughly 20-50kids to do I donate a whole day to getting them done. Now of course my 30 has croaked out (after 8 years) and I haven’t decided if I’m going to get another one or try the 50 simply because I think I’m going to wether the majority of boys born and would like something that I can get them done fast


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

mariarose said:


> @Suzanne_Tyler Do you use Banamine? And if so, how much for a kid being disbudded? Georgia asked earlier, you see, and I don't have an answer.


Oops, guess I missed that question :/

No, I don't use banamine. They get over it pretty quick and anyways I would have a bit of trouble getting banamine from my vet.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

My vets WILL give me Banamine, but I have not been disbudding. I just don't have a dosage for a tiny one...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well... My first Kid Box came from that no longer recommended place, Hoeggers. And I won't go back to search the site because I don't want to give those current (not then) crooks a search.

I'll keep looking...


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I'll just do without the banamine then. I feel like the sooner it's over the better. Thank you all so much! 

More questions... Some say go to the copper ring (why is it copper?), others say until you see the white of the skull? 

Being that 3/4 are boys, I am also a little worried about the area in front of the bud on bucks? I have seen the figure 8 thing, but that looks like a LOT to take off. And it is more likely to bleed. I am assuming the hair will grow back just fine? Crazy to me you can cut it to the skull and still have hair growth? (Not a big issue but I am curious) 

1. I could ask my main farm vet to help me, older gruff man that would do it no problem, just don't know if he cares enough to do it right. But who knows, he might be great at it and even have his own iron, disbudding isn't big in our area at all so I have no idea.

2. Asking the new young female farm/regular vet in my area to help, she has been great, and I think she will honestly try to do her best. 

3. Driving a few hours to meet a friend who has experience, and let her help me. 

4. Just take a breath and do it myself.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Didn't finish that last post, but I will ask around and see what my options are. From what I am reading, the 2-5 day thing I originally thought isn't exactly right. Now seeing that it can be done a little later, especially for small goats is great news.

Is it just as easy if you have to go back and fix it a week later? I am assuming I will mess up the first time.

The girl has very tiny little buds, so I am thinking she will be very easy. Same with 1 of the boys, but the other two are a little wider at the base.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I picked up a doeling and got to watch her being disbudded in front of me. I haven't had bleeding from a figure 8. I have to count, one thousand one, one thousand two, for the count of ten. Flick the cap off. Give a short break and go back over for another count of ten. Then do the same on the other side. I didn't do so long my first couple and have scurs.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Way back when I was first raising goats, I did the copper ring, thing. It left scurs. The white ring thing did not. I hated doing this so much that when I recently got back into goats I found every reason under the sun not to disbud. I'm now rethinking (mostly because of market, but because of other reasons as well) So I don't have all the answers you want. Georgia, we're sort of explorers and deciders together...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Well... (insert swear words here)... My first Kid Box came from that no longer recommended place, Hoeggers. And I won't go back to search the site because I don't want to give those current (not then) crooks a search.
> 
> I'll keep looking...


See that's where mine came from too :/ and I've been looking and can't find one any place else and I have so many things to make as it is I just want to buy one! 
I also agree with the white ring. I also got scurs or they would never just turn a copper color, it would go from burned looking to white.
Time frame pretty much a week is golden here BUT I have noticed that dairy cross kids that might be pushing it. I had a little alpine X boer and his horns were already pushing threw at a week old, I did my best but still got nasty nasty scurs on him. I also learned that he also grew BIG testicles really fast. At 2 months old I had to pull out the cattle bander when usually I band between 2-3 months and at the most I have to just work one testicle down at a time but I could still get it


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Alpines, yeah. I'm an Alpine girl, but wow do those hornbuds form fast.!!!!!!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I was totally shocked by it! I thought my Nubian cross kids grew fast, yeah right nothing has ever had anything on that boy so far lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Alpine horn buds are the Cheetahs of the horn bud world......


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I was going to message you but figured this might also help the OP as well. So it’s for sure hoeggers that is bad not caprine supply? The have a disbudding Box just REALLY spendy, like I might break down and just go ahead and make it spendy (cringe)


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've never ordered from Caprine Supply. I can not speak to them or their products. I'm so sorry.

Hoegger's stole over $200 from me. I refuse to send people there.

I'm thinking seriously of making my own kid boxes for sale at the moment. I realize that would be too late for anyone needing one NOW.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I saw the ones on caprine supply, and saw a separate metal V thing that the kids head rests on. 

On the videos I have watched, they still move quite a lot in the kid boxes. It's like their neck sticks out of the box too much. And I'm scared my chunky little Boer necks won't even fit in the whole lol. 

But I did see a video that has like a little stool with a cushioned pad over it. And you put them in between your knees up on the ground against it, then rest their head and neck on the platform. One person sits and holds them and the other does the burning. I am really leaning toward making myself something like that. Those goats couldn't move an inch!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Do you have a link for that video?


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I have watched so many lately it was just in my recommend videos. And now I can't find it anywhere. I'll check back in my history to see if I can find which one it is. 

I do remember they had a cute little name though, chick-a-woof ranch or farms maybe? 

What are the chances of brain damage? I can take ugly scurs, screaming kids, singed hair, and the burning smell. But the thought of permanently damaging these kids, just because I want to mess around and try hornless goats...


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

The chances of brain damage are very, very low. You have to burn hard and long for that to happen.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I found the video


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think the current knowledge on the brain damage issue is if the iron is too cool, then you have to keep it on longer to get a good burn, so more damage risk?

Put a bag of frozen corn on the head. That will cool it quickly (make sure the bag is clean.)

Thanks for the video. I'll watch it after milking this moring!


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

That's the one! Thank you!!


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I've posted this video before, and I still think it's helpful.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> I've never ordered from Caprine Supply. I can not speak to them or their products. I'm so sorry.
> 
> Hoegger's stole over $200 from me. I refuse to send people there.
> 
> I'm thinking seriously of making my own kid boxes for sale at the moment. I realize that would be too late for anyone needing one NOW.


I knew people were having issues with one of them I just wanted to be sure it wasn't this one. They want $50 something for that box! I can't imagine lumber being more expensive then California (maybe New York) and the cost of supplies isn't even half of that! I won't start kidding till January so if you are serious about making them later I will check back with you when it's closer to my kidding time. I'm really not ready to buy yet anyways, I have panels and a "barn" to buy and make first.......ugh I hate money lol
I haven't watched the videos yet but even with my other box I had I had to still hold their head when disbudding. I don't think there is a box out there that will fully hold them totally still for you. I'll watch the video and see if I have to eat my words lol


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I've ordered from Caprine Supply in the past and they're great. I agree that Hoegger is awful. It used to be great, but then the people who ran it passed it down to their kids. I ordered a disbudding iron ($150) and it never came. I think recently they said they were going to turn the business around, but I think they lost too much of their customer base.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, I did not mean to imply the box held the head. The box held the rest of the kid, so I could hold the head and do it myself. My children were too young to be held responsible for holding my kids.

Sorry I was unclear.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Yes, I did not mean to imply the box held the head. The box held the rest of the kid, so I could hold the head and do it myself. My children were too young to be held responsible for holding my kids.
> 
> Sorry I was unclear.


Well at least they had a excuse not to help, my whole family refuses to help me and when I catch kids I get oh poor baby and your so mean. I fully enjoyed throwing those comments back in my husbands face when he got his finger smashed getting a kids head out of the feeder! I'm solo and accident prone and no way can I do it without a box. BUT there was another video I once saw a few years back by a member and they stood up and held the kid between their legs right behind the kids front legs and then held their head against their leg to disbud.....right leg when doing the kids left side and left leg when doing the right side. I'm pretty sure my legs would be dead after squeezing chubby boers but it seemed pretty doable.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Another idea for @GaGoats2017

http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/disbudding-goats-2/


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I will definitely get help from my dad holding them, while I do the dirty work. I like the towel method too. Thanks!

More questions:

1. Do you push down hard while burning, or just rest it on there?

2. Hold it flat or do the rocking in a circle motion?


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

And on a whole different topic. I was planning on just taking them to the vet to get the boys banded. He gives them a tetanus shot when he does it. 

But if I am going to go as far to disbud my own. I feel like I can use a simple bander also. What shot do I need to get to give to them? Can someone explain the process when, what brand, dosage, and type of injection needed? I have read posts on banding, so I think the actual banding process should be fine.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I do not push hard, but I do twist in a circle a little. Pretty much just like the guy in the video I posted.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

CrazyDogLady said:


> I do not push hard, but I do twist in a circle a little. Pretty much just like the guy in the video I posted.


Ditto


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

GaGoats2017 said:


> And on a whole different topic. I was planning on just taking them to the vet to get the boys banded. He gives them a tetanus shot when he does it.
> 
> But if I am going to go as far to disbud my own. I feel like I can use a simple bander also. What shot do I need to get to give to them? Can someone explain the process when, what brand, dosage, and type of injection needed? I have read posts on banding, so I think the actual banding process should be fine.


I don't give any shots at banding. I generally band at 10-12 weeks. It's a closed wound until healed, so tetanus antitox isn't really necessary.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Okay thank you so much!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Up until this last banding a couple months ago, I gave a tetanus anti-toxin. However, over the summer my fridge got unplugged when I was out of town for my husband's surgery. I ended up having to throw out everything, including the tetanus antitoxin. I have not yet replaced it. The last banding I did not give the antitoxin shot


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The antitoxin is one of the few things I am absolutely admit about. Band goes on and they get a shot, but when I was a kid I lost our little pet goat to tetanus when we banded him so I’m dead set on it.
Make sure if you do give It it’s antitoxin not toxoid. I know a few people will give the toxoid (my mom is one and we butt heads about this) but the toxoid is a vaccine where you are actually giving a small amount of the disease to build a immunity against it. Antitoxin kills the disease for 14 days. If you vaccinate before handing and use the antitoxin you will need to revaccinate since it will cancel it out


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> The antitoxin is one of the few things I am absolutely admit about. Band goes on and they get a shot, but when I was a kid I lost our little pet goat to tetanus when we banded him so I'm dead set on it.
> Make sure if you do give It it's antitoxin not toxoid. I know a few people will give the toxoid (my mom is one and we butt heads about this) but the toxoid is a vaccine where you are actually giving a small amount of the disease to build a immunity against it. Antitoxin kills the disease for 14 days. If you vaccinate before handing and use the antitoxin you will need to revaccinate since it will cancel it out


Thank you! What brand do you use, do you have a link? I will have to order mine most likely, my feed stores don't carry it. I might can get it from the vet.

I was just planning on using the little green bands from TSC. Will that work?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, the green bands are fine


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

This is what I get. It's like 1/2 the price of what they charge me at the feed store! https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2E87BEDD-7B6A-11D5-A192-00B0D0204AE5


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

I got the California bander this year, works great for the older goats. I banded a 10 month ok, just make sure you pull that sucker to about 1/3 of it's length. If I was banding early enough, I'd do the regular green cheerio bander


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

And I get the tetanus antitoxin from Valley Vet.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

My disbudding iron came in!!! The Rhineheart-X50A, with a 1/2 inch tip. Dont know whether to be excited or not. I read the manual, and it doesn't say how to put the tip on. The only way I could think to do it, is how it looks in the picture I posted. Just want to make sure that is right, and it will heat up like that.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

The twin boys are 10 days old today. The girl is 8 days old. 

And the other big blue eyed buckling gets to keep his, the buyer likes their bucks to have horns I guess. Which is good because I was dreading doing his big buds. 

I am going to try my best to get it done today. Wish me luck!!


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

For the banding, this is pictures of the bands and bander I am planning to get. Just want to triple check it is the right size bands.

The vet will sale me a dose of tetanus antitoxin for $12 a dose. So that's not too bad, I am going to go ahead and do it just incase. How is it given? SQ or...?

What age should I band them? I feel like they are too tiny now, or is that a good thing? I can feel both on all of them, I just don't want to miss a piece of one.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I forgot to add the picture.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I can't help you on the iron assembly. Maybe there is a youtube video on that????

I give the antitoxin SQ. But I think it can be IM.

Those are the bands and the bander I have. Try hard to keep them intact for 3 months, if you can.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is correct for the iron.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep, that's correct on the disbudding iron. 

And on the bands and elastrator. If you order the metal elastrator from Jeffers it will last a lot longer. And if you keep the bands in the fridge they will last longer as well. 

You can get tetanus antitox at tractor supply.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> You can get tetanus antitox at tractor supply.


Not at mine, unfortunately...


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I totally chickened out. 

I had all their heads shaved, iron was hot, had my ice pack, goat was wrapped up and held, had gloves on ready to go and...my dad looks up and says "why don't we just call the vet". 

I was sick to my stomach I was going to mess up. He was REALLY worried I would mess them up. And I just couldn't do it. I called he vet, I am taking them into her tomorrow morning to be done. She even has an iron, I have no idea why I didn't ask her first before I ordered mine. She is new to town, and AMAZING so I am excited she knows how to do it. 

Hopefully I can get her to show me how, and maybe she will coach me into doing one. 

I will let y'all know how that goes...


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I can't help you on the iron assembly. Maybe there is a youtube video on that????
> 
> I give the antitoxin SQ. But I think it can be IM.
> 
> Those are the bands and the bander I have. Try hard to keep them intact for 3 months, if you can.


Thank you! I will give it SQ, I am very comfortable with SQ injections. Not so much IM.

I am keeping the twin boys until they are weaned around 3-4 months. So I will wait longer for them.

The blue eyed boy I am going to try to pull for a bottle baby by next weekend. So I am going to have to get his done a little earlier, I will wait until the day before he goes home to do it. He will be 3 weeks then, if that's too soon I can just tell the buyers to bring him to get it done later? This is the first time I have banded, so whatever y'all think is best.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, don't give the anti-toxin injections until you band them, The effect won't last that long.

If the new owners are willing to wait it would be better for his future health.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

GaGoats2017 said:


> And the other big blue eyed buckling gets to keep his, the buyer likes their bucks to have horns I guess


Wait, have we gotten confused by talking about 4 goats, and disbudding, and wethering all in one thread?

This is not meant to be snarky. Just, if they want your buckling to be a buck, do not band him, either now or in a few months.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Make sure you are there when the vet disbuds. Watch and see and even ask if she will show you. Don’t worry about being a chicken I had someone show me how to do it too and I am a total learn to do it all yourself person. But hopefully the vet will take your hand and show you but even then just watching in person should help you a lot for on your own


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## DonnaBelle66 (Mar 4, 2013)

I would like to add one issue regarding disbudding. We have found that going too fast between the two buds allows the iron to not reheat enough. We have the X50. It pays to wait a couple of minutes to allow it to reheat. Otherwise you can have scurs form on the second burn.


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## DonnaBelle66 (Mar 4, 2013)

DonnaBelle66 said:


> I would like to add one issue regarding disbudding. We have found that going too fast between the two buds allows the iron to not reheat enough. We have the X50. It pays to wait a couple of minutes to allow it to reheat. Otherwise you can have scurs form on the second burn.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Wait, have we gotten confused by talking about 4 goats, and disbudding, and wethering all in one thread?
> 
> This is not meant to be snarky. Just, if they want your buckling to be a buck, do not band him, either now or in a few months.


Hahaha no confusion. I have it all straight in my head, I am just not describing everything well enough. There are 4 kids, 3 boys and 1 girl.

The buyer I have for the blue eyed boy can't decide whether he wants to keep him as a Buck, or as a pet wether. So he is going back and forth. Before I put any bands on I will check with the buyer for sure. I just didn't make that very clear for the post.

1. So the girl is getting disbudded. I am keeping her.

2. & 3. The twin boys are going together at weaning age. Both disbudded and banded.

4. The blue eyed boy has to keep his horns either way. But "is too pretty to band, maybe we will keep him as a Buck instead" says the buyers recently.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> Make sure you are there when the vet disbuds. Watch and see and even ask if she will show you. Don't worry about being a chicken I had someone show me how to do it too and I am a total learn to do it all yourself person. But hopefully the vet will take your hand and show you but even then just watching in person should help you a lot for on your own


Yes, I LOVE this vet. She is a traveling farm/horse vet, one of my good friends is her vet tech. So I just texted her when I decided I couldn't do it. I think she will take her time to teach me how. So I am way more relaxed now, just to at least have supervision.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Great! It really does help having someone there. I thought everyone here has been awesome to explain everything but it’s it’s still a little frightening burning a babies head!! Lol after you get one under your belt while someone guides you will be way more relaxed. I actually did the same thing as you! I had the iron I heated the iron and when I picked the kid up I said no way! Called a friend of mine and asked her about frying brains and all that and she said bring them over (thank goodness!) but so far disbudding and learning to give a spinal have been the two things that I just couldn’t learn on my own........well I still don’t know how to do the spinal but I will once my brother comes over to visit lol


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I know what you mean. In my head I was confident and ready to go. I just hate the thought of hurting my babies, even if for only 5 seconds.

I just butchered my first broilers this morning too, so I think I have been mentally drained enough for the day haha. 

Didn't help that my dad hasn't done any research, and knows nothing about it. So he was 100% sure I was going to scar/kill these precious baby's. He was supposed to be the holder for me, but when I almost started he just scooped them up and snuggled them saying "are you sure you are confident about this", "why do you want to do it anyway", "they are such pretty kids, I hate for you to mess them up". That's what really got me, because he never questions my motives up until now. But I think it is for the best, now I will get to ask 100 questions and see it in person.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol.....I laugh because that is the same thing I deal with with every single person under this roof! Although we have moved past the your gonna kill them part! What I don’t get with my crew is we have cattle! We brand them! Although I guess a butt and a head are a little different lol but you will be fine, just have the vet show you and that will give you confidence


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Have my vet appt in 20 minutes. Babies are boxed up sleeping.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

@mariarose I forgot who mentioned it, but I think it was you.

The vet asked yesterday if I wanted to go ahead and band the boys now. I told her no, that I was waiting a few more months. I have seen threads on it before, but I forget exactly why you want to wait. I trust y'all over any vet, so I still want to know my reason incase she try's to talk me into it, or questions why not?


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

You want to give their urinary tract a bit longer to develop. It helps to prevent urinary calculi. They need the hormones for that to happen, and those growth hormone are contained partly in the testicles.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Thank you! Just didn't want to make myself sound dumb if she asked why.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The earlier you band, the easier it is on the goat. The later you band, the better it is for the goat, because you want that urethra tube to be as large a diameter as you can allow it to grow, because of UC. Stones in the urinary tract. Which is an absolutely horrible death. Goats are unable to breed before they are "extending" the penis, so no penis, no reason to castrate in my opinion.

It is a balance, and owners used to castrate while disbudding. But most of us have learned better.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh my gosh. I would start that doeling on b complex, red cell, and probiotics ASAP. That much blood loss is terrible. If she is still bleeding, you can cauterize the wound your disbudding iron.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I am really sorry you had to deal with that.  You did the best you could, and will know better for next time. 

Are there any breeders in your area that can show you how to disbud? I had another breeder do mine for the first several years.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry, but gosh, It is difficult to find that you did ANYTHING wrong here at all. So far as I can see you did everything right. You could not know what was ahead. I'm sorry for you and for them.

Wow. SERIOUS hugs sent your way.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

It's over now and everyone is happy and back with mamas. I trusted her completely for other animals, and still do...but I won't be taking any more goat kids back to her. That was the last thing I excpected, glad it's over.

Is that even a thing people do? Are they going to grow anyway? I am just preparing myself to redo them with my disbudding iron when they do come back. If anything that has prepared me, because I am extremely confident I can't mess them up any worse than they are now. 

Another thing. She told me that she doesn't like banding (she was the one I asked to buy the antitoxin from) and said it was better just to cut them. I just went with it while I was there to be nice. But after that...I won't be letting her anywhere near my kids with a scalpel again. Not happening. So it will be up to you guys to help me band, I won't be getting advice from her.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Rant away, Hon... I'm here.

I would squirt some penicillin on the wounds, and then spray Blu-Kote on them when the penicillin is dry. Later as it is not quite so raw, I would put some human triple antibiotic ointment on it.

Others here may have a different idea, and maybe better than mine.

Interesting reaction from your dad. 

No, don't take them to be cut. Banding works fine.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Just an idea, since this thread is no longer about the subject title, perhaps start a new thread? You may well get more/better advice on it.

I know that I don't read every thread, and the subject has a lot to do with whether or not I open it.

But I'm here with you, and I won't go away..


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Hahaha thank you! You were there before their birth, very happy to have you now! @mariarose

Yea the thread kinda took an odd turn. I will make a new one for them, and the "issue" they are having now. And since this one got a little mixed up, I will make a different one for banding too later on. Thanks!

And yea I would rather band. I know the thought of it pretty much rotting off is gross. But I don't want to see anymore blood shed from these kids if I can help it. She told me "watch a video about it on YouTube, it has to do with pain level between the two options, and you will definitely agree with me after" -says that as I am holding down a screaming flailing goat with blood pouring down my hands/arms and the kids face/neck/legs  ... but okay..

I seriously don't know what I would do without you all. I would be lost, because today would have been enough for me to just quit and sale them all. Very appreciative of the amazing support and guidance!!! Glad to have someone there to give me the confidence and knowledge I know I can trust.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No one here will make you band if you don't want to. I will tell you that some boys are complete and total drama queens, and some will say, "HMPH" and run off to tell mommy all about it.

It really does not rot off. It dries up and gets flat and hard (and cold! That part is important because if it is warm that means blood is getting through) and eventually falls off. I'll give you more hints later in that thread.

Yes, that comment from the vet MUST have struck you as a bit... surreal...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@toth boer goats @ksalvagno @StaceyRosado @(I'm blanking on the moderators)

Can she move some of these posts from today to a different thread? Or does she have to start from scratch?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Banding is pretty easy. Video:


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

I'll just copy paste them. If it makes it easier, when I switch them to a new thread I can delete the repeat posts about the after disbudding chaos.


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## GaGoats2017 (Sep 5, 2017)

Made a new thread for the disbudding horror. Deleted all the disbudding posts from today so they wouldn't get mixed up. 

I will create a separate banding thread later on when I need it. I left a couple posts from today, so I can have them to copy and paste to the banding thread later on. 

If y'all think anything else needs to be deleted or moved, go ahead. Just dont want to confuse anyone.


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