# Feeding and feeding schedules



## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

Hi, everyone!
Just some quick stuff this time. My boys get unlimited hay all year round, and 6-8oz of grain each per day. I just bought orchard grass pellets and want to introduce them to their diet as something supplemental since the ground is snowed over and there is little to nothing for them to forage for. Of course, they always have fresh water and access to loose minerals.

I'm wondering how much of the pellets I should give them to start, and once they are used to them, how much you would give them a day? The pellets also look pretty big and I want to make sure they won't choke on them. I'm adding a picture here - if they're too big, what do I do? Two more for size comparison.

















Thanks everyone!


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

I always use this rule:
A goat eats per day 3-4% of its total weight.
Make your calculations of what is available as food and you will get an idea. I always use this method to get an idea.
Wait for other opinions, i'm not a goat expert.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I like to start with a quarter cup if Nigerian or half cup with full size goats. Then slowly increase from there. Pellet looks the same size as alfalfa pellets and should be just fine to eat.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> I like to start with a quarter cup if Nigerian or half cup with full size goats. Then slowly increase from there. Pellet looks the same size as alfalfa pellets and should be just fine to eat.


Thank you! I gave them a quarter cup just to see if they liked it. It took a minute, but they seemed to figure out pretty quickly that it was something tasty. They’ve never had hay pellets, so I think for a moment they were just like WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY lol I’m going to give them more tonight. They break apart so easily I’m not too worried about them chewing them. Pellets are stored in a vittles vault (water tight food containers) same as their grain ☺


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> I like to start with a quarter cup if Nigerian or half cup with full size goats. Then slowly increase from there. Pellet looks the same size as alfalfa pellets and should be just fine to eat.


Do you think it would be alright to mix with alfalfa pellets? They love alfalfa hay, but I don’t give them a lot of it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sure.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep. 👍


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Sorry if this is a silly question. Why do you want to add grass pellets if you already have hay?


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> Sorry if this is a silly question. Why do you want to add grass pellets if you already have hay?


We go through a LOT of hay but sometimes I guess they get bored with it and don’t really want it. They get limited grain so I want to make sure they’re getting enough food to eat, especially with this crazy cold weather.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

I think it's great to have a variety!


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

andunham said:


> Hi, everyone!
> Just some quick stuff this time. My boys get unlimited hay all year round, and 6-8oz of grain each per day. I just bought orchard grass pellets and want to introduce them to their diet as something supplemental since the ground is snowed over and there is little to nothing for them to forage for. Of course, they always have fresh water and access to loose minerals.
> 
> I'm wondering how much of the pellets I should give them to start, and once they are used to them, how much you would give them a day? The pellets also look pretty big and I want to make sure they won't choke on them. I'm adding a picture here - if they're too big, what do I do? Two more for size comparison.
> ...


Anyone ever tried hay nets like this? It says it’s super tough but goats are certainly chewers!
Net hay feeder


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

andunham said:


> Anyone ever tried hay nets like this? It says it’s super tough but goats are certainly chewers!
> Net hay feeder


Hay nets are dangerous! Goats have been known to hang themselves or get a leg caught and break it in the struggle to get out. I’d look for a better option.
I feed both size pellets to my Nigerians with no trouble so yes, they’re fine.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

^^^Yes! We had a buck who used one for weeks with no problems, then came out one day to find him very stuck in it. Thankfully he was ok, but we never used one again.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

GoofyGoat said:


> Hay nets are dangerous! Goats have been known to hang themselves or get a leg caught and break it in the struggle to get out. I’d look for a better option.
> I feed both size pellets to my Nigerians with no trouble so yes, they’re fine.


Okay nope! No stinkin way. Gonna spend the money on the wall mounted feeder! They’re more interested in the pellets now than their hay 🤦🏻‍♀️ They are so goofy lol
I feel bad that they are in jail today. It’s sunny but the windchill is between 1° and -5° I just don’t feel good about that. And there are snow flurries on and off. They’re safer and warmer inside their shelter. One of them decided to jump on the door and knock it a little offkilter; Sam and I are fixing that today so they don’t end up with a snow drift in their shelter. I fixed any and all drafts that were in there. I’m certainly not going to allow any drafts now, or ever. Tonight is the first night of the winter that is going to be -6°. I have a nice thick build up of straw where they sleep, it has to be about 6 to 8 inches thick. I am putting hot salt water in a bucket, and then another bucket inside of it, with their drinking water. The way that the buckets locked together means they can’t get to the salt water. We are checking on them every 3 to 4 hours to make sure water isn’t frozen.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Wall feeders are a better option. 😁 if you get the kind with a tray on the bottom you’ll find they waste less too. Sounds like they’re going to be snug as a bug in a rug in their shelter. Good job. Still, don’t make it air tight though, they still need good ventilation to help get rid of the ammonia smells from the urine. It can cause pneumonia.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

GoofyGoat said:


> Wall feeders are a better option. 😁 if you get the kind with a tray on the bottom you’ll find they waste less too. Sounds like they’re going to be snug as a bug in a rug in their shelter. Good job.


Thank you ☺ I’m neurotic about my animals. They deserve everything and more! I bonded so strongly with Flower, and through a lot of hard work earned Snow’s trust and love. I love hard and for good ♥


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Y‘all went through a lot. It’s great you’ve became so bonded 😁


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

GoofyGoat said:


> Y‘all went through a lot. It’s great you’ve became so bonded 😁


We sure have! I’d do everything all over again to get and keep them healthy. They’re such good, loving boys!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I’ve never tried hay nets because I’ve read too many horror stories about them. There are a ton of hay feeder ideas out there that aren’t expensive but are safer. I can lose an hour just looking up all the different ideas people have, there’s some creative solutions out there. 

I give my goats orchard grass hay and alfalfa pellets. I started with little handfuls (they are NDs and were young at the time). Now they get 1/4 c grain and 1/4 c alfalfa pellets each in the morning and and 1/2 c each of alfalfa pellets at night. They have hay 24/7 and there’s still some limited forage to be found, so I figure the pellets are a good go-to-the-barn bribe and a nice little variety for them. As long as adding it in, you keep the ca/ph and other nutritional balance in mind, I think the hay pellets can be a great addition. I swear mine don’t even chew them most the time, they vacuum them right out of the dish. Thankfully, we haven’t had any choking issues (knock on wood).


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> I’ve never tried hay nets because I’ve read too many horror stories about them. There are a ton of hay feeder ideas out there that aren’t expensive but are safer. I can lose an hour just looking up all the different ideas people have, there’s some creative solutions out there.
> 
> I give my goats orchard grass hay and alfalfa pellets. I started with little handfuls (they are NDs and were young at the time). Now they get 1/4 c grain and 1/4 c alfalfa pellets each in the morning and and 1/2 c each of alfalfa pellets at night. They have hay 24/7 and there’s still some limited forage to be found, so I figure the pellets are a good go-to-the-barn bribe and a nice little variety for them. As long as adding it in, you keep the ca/ph and other nutritional balance in mind, I think the hay pellets can be a great addition. I swear mine don’t even chew them most the time, they vacuum them right out of the dish. Thankfully, we haven’t had any choking issues (knock on wood).


They seem to like the orchard grass pellets quite a bit lol I’ve been doing the same looking things up to try different creative ways to make hay feeders. They are crafty little buggers and some of the stuff that I had put up off the ground for them they seem to climb in and knock down lol so that hay gets thrown out because I don’t want to feed them anything that there is even a chance they pooped or Peed in. There are definitely quite a bit of creative ideas


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

I use hay nets when I'm around and can watch them and need them away from their hay feeders. They chew them up but I've just been tying them back together. They do have a knack for getting tangled in them though so definitely not a good option if you aren't going to be outside with them.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

GoofyGoat said:


> Hay nets are dangerous! Goats have been known to hang themselves or get a leg caught and break it in the struggle to get out. I’d look for a better option.


Yes, I know someone who had a goat die on a hay net. Got horns caught.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

No point in using hay nets, they are potentially dangerous. Even a laundry basket mounted up high can serve the same purpose without the danger, as well as pallets.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, the nets are dangerous.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

goatblessings said:


> No point in using hay nets, they are potentially dangerous. Even a laundry basket mounted up high can serve the same purpose without the danger, as well as pallets.


I’ve rigged a laundry basket lol it’s functional. The hay waste just sucks lol but it’s working for now. Just like to have options so I’m continuing to look up some DIY creations ☺


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I make hay bags out of feed bags that work great. I've been using them for a little over a year with no issues. I do not have horned goats though so wouldn't do it if your boys have horns. This was one of my first itineration, but I have since prefer to cut nine holes in it instead of four and I use a ring of bent wire to attach it at the top as a break away feature.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

Is this the right stuff? Only asking because it was with bird food. Also want to add oats regularly. Do you all just use rolled oats from the store? Find oats with equine stuff in places like TSC?


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

That's exactly what I feed my does. 😉

Oats might be with equine stuff at TSC but it also might be around where they have all stock feeds. I used to get oats from TSC.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> That's exactly what I feed my does. 😉
> 
> Oats might be with equine stuff at TSC but it also might be around where they have all stock feeds. I used to get oats from TSC.


Awesome! I’m going to introduce it to their diet today. I’ll start with 1/4 cup so I don’t upset their systems. Once they are used to it, do you measure it out per day or free feed?
Also, if I haven’t told you, I love the LotR reference in your username 🤗


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

andunham said:


> Anyone ever tried hay nets like this? It says it’s super tough but goats are certainly chewers!
> Net hay feeder


These nets are not a good idea, especially if your goats have horns. I lost a good doe to one of these - hung herself.
It looked like she turned around with her head & neck in there and then lost her footing. I had to untangle her body.








Something like this might be safer but I have not tried these.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice by all.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

andunham said:


> Also, if I haven’t told you, I love the LotR reference in your username 🤗


Oh thank you so much! Very few people understand it without explanation. 👍



andunham said:


> Once they are used to it, do you measure it out per day or free feed?


You'll want to measure it out per feeding. They would overeat it if left out free choice.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

andunham said:


> Is this the right stuff? Only asking because it was with bird food. Also want to add oats regularly. Do you all just use rolled oats from the store? Find oats with equine stuff in places like TSC?
> View attachment 220392


Try your local feed elevator I got feed outs there foe waaayyyyy cheaper the tractor supply (like half price)!


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

andunham said:


> Is this the right stuff? Only asking because it was with bird food. Also want to add oats regularly. Do you all just use rolled oats from the store? Find oats with equine stuff in places like TSC?
> View attachment 220392


Try your local feed elevator I got feed outs there foe waaayyyyy cheaper then tractor supply (like half price)!


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Try your local feed elevator I got feed oats there for waaayyyyy cheaper then tractor supply (like half price)!


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Sorry lol it wasn't working and posted 3x oops


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> Oh thank you so much! Very few people understand it without explanation. 👍
> 
> 
> You'll want to measure it out per feeding. They would overeat it if left out free choice.


Got it. Since it’s new I’ll start them with 1/4 cup each. Sound okay? Out of curiosity, how much BOSS do you feed per goat?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What size are your goats? Black Oil Sunflower seeds should never be fed in large quantities. I'd probably start with a tablespoon and work up to only 1/4 cup.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

andunham said:


> Got it. Since it’s new I’ll start them with 1/4 cup each. Sound okay? Out of curiosity, how much BOSS do you feed per goat?


You'll want to start with a less. I feed my milking does a 1/4 cup twice a day when they need to gain weight, and two tablespoons twice a day when they don't. My dry yearling gets one tablespoon twice daily.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> What size are your goats? Black Oil Sunflower seeds should never be fed in large quantities. I'd probably start with a tablespoon and work up to only 1/4 cup.


They’re still smallish. 55-65lbs. I see other advice too telling me the same. Thank you. Definitely don’t want to make them sick!


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> You'll want to start with a less. I feed my milking does a 1/4 cup twice a day when they need to gain weight, and two tablespoons twice a day when they don't. My dry yearling gets one tablespoon twice daily.


Thank you. Flower is the only one who needs a little weight back on. He lost somewhere between 5-10lbs when he was sick! He eats well and drinks fine, but we have also been dealing with correcting other deficiencies 😞


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

andunham said:


> Thank you. Flower is the only one who needs a little weight back on. He lost somewhere between 5-10lbs when he was sick! He eats well and drinks fine, but we have also been dealing with correcting other deficiencies 😞


Well if you are looking for weight gain then, I'd say start with one tablespoon daily and move up to two if they don't show signs of clumpy poops after a few day. Hope they help your little guys!


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

andunham said:


> Hi, everyone!
> Just some quick stuff this time. My boys get unlimited hay all year round, and 6-8oz of grain each per day. I just bought orchard grass pellets and want to introduce them to their diet as something supplemental since the ground is snowed over and there is little to nothing for them to forage for. Of course, they always have fresh water and access to loose minerals.
> 
> I'm wondering how much of the pellets I should give them to start, and once they are used to them, how much you would give them a day? The pellets also look pretty big and I want to make sure they won't choke on them. I'm adding a picture here - if they're too big, what do I do? Two more for size comparison.
> ...


This is going to look insane… but this is how I break apart my bales and flakes. Always smells good. Looks good. But, this time of year there is no perfect bale. These are incredible quality. The reason I do this insanity? Here and there there will be a stem/leaf/flower with some fuzz. If I see fuzz (mold) I tear it out. Free of patches of it or anything like that, but I literally go through and will pick out any individual piece I can see. This usually takes me about 40-45 minutes to fill that bag. Am I nuts? Probably. But,I can’t risk their health. Neurotic hay sorting is tedious (and freaking cold!) but hey… gotta protect our goaties!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I give you credit for doing it in your car. I wouldn't want to clean up the mess.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> I give you credit for doing it in your car. I wouldn't want to clean up the mess.


Believe me, I dread cleaning the mess. It’s the only place I can think of for a “cool, dry” place to store my hay inside. Guaranteed protection from getting wet, at least lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If there is a will, there is a way, right.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> If there is a will, there is a way, right.


You know it! I finally got some oats from the feed store. Doesn’t say how much to feed them though… they get unlimited hey, a half cup each of alfalfa pellets until they’ve had the filtered water long enough to reduce calcium, they get 1 to 1 1/2 cups of grain per day, and I have been giving them one and a half cups of rolled oats. Should I continue with what I’ve been doing with the whole oats?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

You can put a tarp in the back of you SUV that covers the back of your seats and carpeted flooring. It makes clean up a lot easier😉


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

GoofyGoat said:


> You can put a tarp in the back of you SUV that covers the back of your seats and carpeted flooring. It makes clean up a lot easier😉


Oh Lord. That seems so obvious and yet… didn’t think of it lol they are plowing through a bale a week which makes me really happy. Using the Horse Hydrator every day so that should help reduce calcium by a good percentage. Maybe then I can supplement a cup of alfalfa a day! They sure love it (and their daily clove of garlic)!
I’m picking up more hay tomorrow. Kind of figured out the pattern with the bales and the best parts. Are usually have one bale that is nearly pristine, and the other I’m not sure if it is from staying in my car, usually has more bits I have to tear away. I’m on the second pail right now and I’ve noticed that the bits I generally have to tear away in larger chunks are more towards the very center of the bale. I also noticed the more grassy and less leafy the less I have to pick through for individual little leaves and stems that have mold. It is still quite green as well which the boys go bonkers over.
You all have been a GOD SEND ♥


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, you can continue the oats. 
As long as they are not getting too fat.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

andunham said:


> You know it! I finally got some oats from the feed store. Doesn’t say how much to feed them though… they get unlimited hey, a half cup each of alfalfa pellets until they’ve had the filtered water long enough to reduce calcium, they get 1 to 1 1/2 cups of grain per day, and I have been giving them one and a half cups of rolled oats. Should I continue with what I’ve been doing with the whole oats?





andunham said:


> They seem to like the orchard grass pellets quite a bit lol


What is the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the grain you are feeding? What type of hay are you feeding? Are they still getting orchard pellets also? Is the approximately 3 1/2 cups of pellets/grain divided between the 2 goats? Are they getting fed once or twice a day?

Calcium to phosphorus ratio is important to wethers. Oats, orchard grass pellets/hay, and sunflower seed are more phosphorus than calcium. Depending on the type of hay, the calcium to phosphorus ratio should be calculated from this food source first, since usually in the winter, this would be the bulk of their diet. 



andunham said:


> Using the Horse Hydrator every day so that should help reduce calcium by a good percentage. Maybe then I can supplement a cup of alfalfa a day


It's hard to say whether adding 1 1/2 cups (or more) of oats to their diet would be too much or not enough. Without knowing their entire total diet, and then calculating the overall calcium to phosphorus ratio, it's hard to speculate how to measure the amount of oats needed to balance out the ratio to meet the dietary needs for wethers. There may be a possibility less oats and/or more alfalfa pellets would be needed to balance the ratio.

Hay type, calcium to phosphorus ratio of their grain, (and the total daily amount given), a list of the types of forage pellets being used (and the total daily amount given/ of each type pellet if orchard is being used in addition to alfalfa), and the amount of sunflower seeds given daily. Get the ratios for these foods already being fed, and adjust the oats and/or alfalfa pellets until the ratio meets the calcium to phosphorus requirements.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> What is the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the grain you are feeding? What type of hay are you feeding? Are they still getting orchard pellets also? Is the approximately 3 1/2 cups of pellets/grain divided between the 2 goats? Are they getting fed once or twice a day?
> 
> Calcium to phosphorus ratio is important to wethers. Oats, orchard grass pellets/hay, and sunflower seed are more phosphorus than calcium. Depending on the type of hay, the calcium to phosphorus ratio should be calculated from this food source first, since usually in the winter, this would be the bulk of their diet.
> 
> ...


This I can do. I save all the info from the bags that any grain or pellets come in, so I’ll check all the calcium to phosphorus. I found out we have higher calcium content in our well water. I just want to make sure I’ve got it balanced correctly for them. I knew about the ratio, but I get so caught up in trying to “fix” things that I forget to consider the other important parts. 
I ask so many questions… I promise I’m going to calculate all of this before tomorrow afternoon. I actually took screenshots of what you have here so I can easily look at it while I’m doing the calculations.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> What is the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the grain you are feeding? What type of hay are you feeding? Are they still getting orchard pellets also? Is the approximately 3 1/2 cups of pellets/grain divided between the 2 goats? Are they getting fed once or twice a day?
> 
> Calcium to phosphorus ratio is important to wethers. Oats, orchard grass pellets/hay, and sunflower seed are more phosphorus than calcium. Depending on the type of hay, the calcium to phosphorus ratio should be calculated from this food source first, since usually in the winter, this would be the bulk of their diet.
> 
> ...


Okay - it took me a few minutes but I saved the tags for the grain and minerals, plus downloaded the PDFs from the manufacturer websites.

Grain - Purina Goat Grower = Calcium, (min) .75%, (max) 1.25% - Phosphorus, min .50% + ammonium chloride. They get 1-1.5 cups a day each.

Minerals - Wind and Rain Storm all season 7.5 complete = calcium (min) 13.50%, (max) 16.2% - Phosphorus, min. 7.5% + ammonium chloride. For the minerals, I don't know how much of that they get daily - I leave it out for them at all times; sometimes they eat a lot of eat, sometimes it looks like it's barely been touched.
Alfalfa pellets are Standlee Farm, but I couldn't find the exact breakdown so I looked up some general info on the content in alfalfa pellets and found calcium 1.39 and phosphorus .23 (link here). They get half a cup, each, in the morning.

Their oats are Producer's Pride Whole Oats (link here), which lists a calcium content of (min.) .01% and (max) .51%; phosphorus is listed as .20% minimum. They usually get 1/4 to 1/2 cup each in the morning and 1 cup at night.
I haven't been giving orchard grass pellets because they have been out and last time it was musty and mildewy - TWICE - so I won't buy it unless I can check the expiration date (both bags i bought expired MONTHS ago). I haven't given BOSS yet. With introducing other things (alfalfa pellets, whole oats) I didn't want to throw one more thing at them and cause an upset or create a problem.
I get hay from a local farmer. and as far as I know it's timothy grass/hay. There is some clover in there, some stems and leaves, but for the most part it is grass. The boys go through a bale a week.

Our water has higher calcium content but we don't know the EXACT number. In the morning they get the UNfiltered water because I have to get it from outside and then heat it up; so I just use the tap (well) water so it's warm quickly. After that, the jug is filled up twice (a total of 6 gallons) and the water is heated about 30 minutes before I bring it to them so it's not boiling hot, but warm enough that they drink it. Only a COUPLE times this week, I put one scoop of gatorade in their 3 gallons because it didn't seem like they were drinking a lot - they sucked it down and we're back to plain warm water.

We have selenium deficiencies around here - pretty common actually - and they recently showed signs of copper deficiency, so they did get a bolus. I see some improvement. I know how important that calcium to phosphorus ratio is, so I'm always nervous. We've had enough happen and I don't want to cause anything worse.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, you can continue the oats.
> As long as they are not getting too fat.


Snowball is looking a little chonky LOL I don't know if it's just because he's bigger than Flower. I'll have to get a good picture of my "fat" boy so you all can judge lol


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

From what I'm seeing, adding BOSS will be fine. Seems like you have plenty of calcium in there.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> From what I'm seeing, adding BOSS will be fine. Seems like you have plenty of calcium in there.


I worried there was too much calcium, which is why I started using the horse hydrator filter. I want to keep their ratio good so they have no urinary issues. I’m glad for the advice! ☺
I definitely would like to introduce BOSS. 🙂


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> From what I'm seeing, adding BOSS will be fine. Seems like you have plenty of calcium in there.


Oh! Looking for opinions from veteran goat owners... I read that SAFELY the highest ratio for Ca to P is 5:1... I always try to stick with 2:1 since they are wethers (neutered at 4 months or 6 months, I can't remember). Last couple days they haven't had the filtered water because the spigot outside is frozen 🤦‍♀️


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

ksalvagno said:


> From what I'm seeing, adding BOSS will be fine. Seems like you have plenty of calcium in there.


Do you think it would be safe to add alfalfa/orchard grass hay? Not a replacement for Timothy, but something to give here and there? Keeping an eye on that ratio ☺


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is ok.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> That is ok.


 I think they would like that. Flower just horks down about everything lol. Snow tries, but is pickier, and Flower will play musical feeders just to kick him out of hay, pellets, etc. No issues with water sharing. They do love alfalfa, but I remember to limit to keep calcium and phosphorus in the right ratio. They each get a table spoon of BOSS per day. I noticed that they do lose a little weight in the winter, but not much. So LOTS of hay, and they go NUTS over orchard grass, so alfalfa/orchard grass seemed like a nice treat for them.

Right now I have to go out with this mini spray bottle; Snow has gotten a little too aggressive with me when it comes to touching food. First it was little head butts, pushing against me, now he's getting too rough. He rammed into me kinda hard today (not a running start) and those horns are growing, and I am not letting that crap go. I can't even fix the hay when he's in it because he gets so pushy. I don't know why this aggression with food started with me... Flower doesn't allow it if he sees it. If he sees Snowball doing that with me, Flower will go after him.

Anyway, thank you


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Are the boys still getting alfalfa pellets in addition to the mixed alfalfa hay?


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Are the boys still getting alfalfa pellets in addition to the mixed alfalfa hay?


Oh, I haven't started the hay yet. I figure when the alfalfa pellets are gone, then I'll try the alfalfa hay mix. I don't want to give them both at the same time.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Nip that mean in the bud.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

toth boer goats said:


> Nip that mean in the bud.


Oh, I am all over that. I don't hit them - never have, and just won't because that trust is so important - the spray bottle is working. Snowball looks at me like "WTH are you doing?" and backs off. If I yell and throw my arms up... he doesn't like that either lol. I've noticed the last 3 days or so they seem RAVENOUS. I'm trying to understand why... Poops are normal, but getting a fecal to send out. FAMACHA seems good (I think), but I'm going to post pictures just because I'm not entirely sure. We've been going through mountains of hay; temporarily I've been giving them 1-1.5 cups of alfalfa pellets each, 2 cups each of orchard grass pellets (and hay when I can find it) a day. It looks like their horns have grown (seems like another growth ring has appeared) so I'm not sure if it's them just going through a growth spurt or what. But dang, they eat a LOT lately! No complaints here - great quality hay, so they plow through it; grain is still limited. MAX 1.5 cups each per day, usually only 1 cup. still getting 1-1.5 cups of oats; 1 TBSP each of BOSS. I noticed how stubborn they are being with water, so keeping warm and adding things here and there. A TBSP of molasses in 3 gallons once in a while. Giving some goat specific electrolytes today because I, personally, feel like they didn't drink enough yesterday until I added 1 scoop (about an ounce) of goat electrolyte at "bed time" and Flower had to have sucked down half a gallon in one shot. Not giving electrolytes constantly; once every couple days or so. Not using gatorade unless in a jam - too much sugar. Someone around here suggested adding some plain coconut water (their electrolytes smell like coconut).
Holy crap, sorry for the super long reply!


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

What is their body score condition rating on a scale of 1 (one) to 5 (five)? 

1-1.5 + 2 + 1-1.5 + 1-1.5 = 5 - 6.5 cups of feed each per day or a combined total of 10-13 cups a day. How many flakes of hay are they getting per day? Do they get hay every day?



andunham said:


> grain is still limited. MAX 1.5 cups each per day,





andunham said:


> 1-1.5 cups of oats


Their total grain intake would be 2.5-3 cups, each, per day since oats are considered a whole grain. So approximately 50% of the combined diet, other than hay, being fed is grain. 

As a comparison, total weight for 2 of the wethers here would be about 200 pounds combined. During the winter they eat 3-4 flakes of orchard/timothy grass hay (depending on the temperatures) plus some evergreen boughs for browse, and a total of 2 cups of alfalfa pellets per day for both. They haven't had commercial grain feed of any type since they became yearlings, and are 4 (four) years old now. The goats have kept condition this winter (and throughout the year) on that amount. They get about 40-50% less hay during the warmer months, plus browse that's growing where they are turned out to feed, and the same amount of alfalfa pellets. 

Each goat and herd is different when it comes to nutritional needs, and in no way am I recommending the amounts being fed here should apply to other goats.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> What is their body score condition rating on a scale of 1 (one) to 5 (five)?
> 
> 1-1.5 + 2 + 1-1.5 + 1-1.5 = 5 - 6.5 cups of feed each per day or a combined total of 10-13 cups a day. How many flakes of hay are they getting per day? Do they get hay every day?
> 
> ...


I would say their body rating is around 3. 2 is too thin, 3 is kind of where they are at. They have nice fat bellies when they eat, I can't visibly see their ribs with ease anymore. Their backbones aren't visible, but you can slightly feel ridges.

I had cut down their grain after Flower had the thiamine deficiency and I was scared to bring it back up. But, if it's safe to do so, I will. Before he got sick they were getting 3 cups each per day. They get hay every day - it's always free choice - and they eat 3 flakes a a day each, I think. They seem to eat more overnight than during the day, but eat no matter what. Maybe I should just start the morning with 2 flakes each? I, as usual, got nervous about alfalfa pellets because I worry about giving them too much calcium... Generally speaking, I give them 1-1.5 cups each. I've been giving 1.5 cups each since Sunday because they seem so hungry. I just feel awful because I don't know if I'm doing something wrong. They get stubborn with their hay sometimes, kind of like, "oh, this stuff again" so when I can I get some orchard grass to throw in there. Since the copper bolus I've seen an improvement. Oh, and they get a clove of garlic a day - each - and it seems to have had a wonderful effect.

They will be a year old right at the end of April (somewhere around there). Their total weight combined is between 120 - 130. They have been small from the get-go, and I don't know if the problems we've had have impacted their growth... I know I'm always on here with a barrage of questions and (probably annoying) anxiety. Other than my son, my animals are the most important part of my life. They are literally my children lol I don't want to starve them unknowingly.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> What is their body score condition rating on a scale of 1 (one) to 5 (five)?
> 
> 1-1.5 + 2 + 1-1.5 + 1-1.5 = 5 - 6.5 cups of feed each per day or a combined total of 10-13 cups a day. How many flakes of hay are they getting per day? Do they get hay every day?
> 
> ...


I don’t think I said thank you! So, thank you ☺


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

andunham said:


> I don’t think I said thank you! So, thank you ☺


You're more than welcome.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

🤗


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

have a video of Flower protecting me from the lightest headbutt yet, before I could even get the spray bottle out of my pocket 😅








Don’t touch my mama







youtube.com


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> You're more than welcome.


I wondered if you could help me figure one other thing out? When giving alfalfa pellets I can measure by the cup, but they get bored with stuff, so I got just a small bag of alfalfa hay and they dove into what I gave them and were literally moaning while they ate lol How do you measure feeding actual hay like that? They don't get free choice alfalfa and I'm not sure how to go about making sure I don't give them too much when feeding actual hay... This might sound like a stupid question, but I'm guessing there is math involved, and regardless of higher education, math is a concept I can't figure out on my own in these situations.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

I would use weight. Weigh the amount of pellets you feed, add 10% because pellets are dryer than hay, and that should be the approximate alfalfa hay equivalent. You might want to add another 10 - 30% depending on how much hay your goats tend to waste compared to pellets.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

andunham said:


> I wondered if you could help me figure one other thing out? When giving alfalfa pellets I can measure by the cup, but they get bored with stuff, so I got just a small bag of alfalfa hay and they dove into what I gave them and were literally moaning while they ate lol How do you measure feeding actual hay like that? They don't get free choice alfalfa and I'm not sure how to go about making sure I don't give them too much when feeding actual hay... This might sound like a stupid question, but I'm guessing there is math involved, and regardless of higher education, math is a concept I can't figure out on my own in these situations.


Mike at Capra Vista answered the same way I would have. The diet you have been offering has many different types of food sources. I understand the delima you are facing trying to keep the 2.1-(2.4): 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. What other type of hay are you feeding? Do you plan on continuing to offer the bagged alfalfa hay long term? They are being offered commercial goat feed, whole oats, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS currently also? 

When introducing any new food source, start with small amounts for several days so the rumen can adjust.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

Mike at Capra Vista said:


> I would use weight. Weigh the amount of pellets you feed, add 10% because pellets are dryer than hay, and that should be the approximate alfalfa hay equivalent. You might want to add another 10 - 30% depending on how much hay your goats tend to waste compared to pellets.


Oh my goodness. I am so sorry I took so long to answer! I like that idea versus giving them alfalfa hay. It’s much easier to work out and they certainly love them! Now that I have proper (metal, mounted) hay baskets, the waste of hay (Timothy) is much less. Right now the orchard grass pellets have been out of stock for over a month, so to supplement WITH hay I also leave out Timothy hay pellets if they want them.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Mike at Capra Vista answered the same way I would have. The diet you have been offering has many different types of food sources. I understand the delima you are facing trying to keep the 2.1-(2.4): 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. What other type of hay are you feeding? Do you plan on continuing to offer the bagged alfalfa hay long term? They are being offered commercial goat feed, whole oats, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS currently also?
> 
> When introducing any new food source, start with small amounts for several days so the rumen can adjust.


I feed Timothy hay all the time. Free choice. Right now I’ve been giving alfalfa pellets and based on Mike at Capra Vista’s advice, I would rather keep giving them the pellets instead of actual alfalfa hay. They do get goat feed, whole oats, alfalfa pellets, and about half a table spoon each of boss (Snowball’s poop got clumpy so I reduced it and it seems fine now). I was giving orchard grass pellets but they have been out for about 3-4 weeks. When they get them back I’d like to reintroduce slowly since they really like them.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Mike at Capra Vista answered the same way I would have. The diet you have been offering has many different types of food sources. I understand the delima you are facing trying to keep the 2.1-(2.4): 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. What other type of hay are you feeding? Do you plan on continuing to offer the bagged alfalfa hay long term? They are being offered commercial goat feed, whole oats, alfalfa pellets, and BOSS currently also?
> 
> When introducing any new food source, start with small amounts for several days so the rumen can adjust.


Any chance you or anyone know what kind of pine this is? No berries grow on it, so pretty sure it’s not yew or hemlock.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

I think that would be some type of spruce from the way the needles grow from the trunk instead of branches. It's very different than any of the pines I'm familiar with.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> I think that would be some type of spruce from the way the needles grow from the trunk instead of branches. It's very different than any of the pines I'm familiar with.


I thought spruce, too. My neighbor is going to be cutting down a pine tree in her yard and she remembered I said the goats love it so she gave me a BUNCH of full branches. They love it but I didn’t let them have too much. Snowball also got his head stuck through one of the cattle panels today 🤦🏻‍♀️ I had to calm him down before I could unstick him - he was trying to reach the branches.


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## andunham (Jul 4, 2021)

Wow, I have questions constantly, don't I? LOL

So, my barn is being started next week! I promise, this does have to do with feeding... I have two bales of hay that are probably the most beautiful I've ever seen since I got the boys last May lol. I need to take them out of my SUV because I have to have a part replaced tomorrow for the rear windshield, and they need to get in the back. I have 35 gallon totes that I had used to store the bales (break them apart and it fits nicely if not a little full). During the winter they seemed to work well - hay was dry and cool. Now that the rain has started... I lost two bales simultaneously because the rain apparently leaked in. If I put a tarp under the lid and latch it, it gets really difficult to open back up. I won't have the barn for another few weeks, and I can't store the hay in their current shelter - they'll be able to get to it, which means not only will they eat it, which is great, but they will climb, lie on, pee and crap in it lol. I have such limited space to store things at the moment (all of my feed and feed containers are currently in my dining room 🤦‍♀️ ). Any suggestions on how to store these bales? I thought about getting the big (tall) plastic garbage bins, lining them with the big contractor bags, and storing them on the back deck. The lids would be less likely to leak...


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## alwaystj9 (Apr 10, 2019)

Put the tarp over top of the totes?
On the plastic bags, get the contractor grade bags: super thick plastic, otherwise the hay stems poke holes.
Don't get the wheeled bins - the axle lets water/humidity in. Don't get metal cans, the handle attachments tend to leak.
Then put the tarp over all of it.
I'm in Louisiana so we have rain/humidity/monsoon season, too!


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