# Bottle jaw?



## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

My little bucks jaw started to get puffy yesterday and today it was worse. I wormed with valbazen yesterday and im going to start giving him red cell and make him the magic recipe stuff. Is there anything else i can do? Isn't it bar pole worms that causes it? Does valbazen cover that?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Valbazen does not always work real well for barberpole worms. What dosage did you give him for his weight. 
You may want to give him another dose today, or go with a stronger wormer. 
Valbazen can be used for 3 days in a row. But there are stronger choices. cydectin being one of them. 

B-complex injectable is also good for building red blood cells.


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

The last goat that had bottle jaw was a few weeks ago, it cleared right up and was gone the next day after i used cydectin on her. 

But his eyes started turning pale a week ago so i wormed with cydectin and it didnt help much for him. Then yesterday i went and got some valbazen because i though it might be stronger. If i gave him valbazen yesterday would it be ok to try cydectin on him today or should i wait? 

On the cydectin i gave 1cc per 22 lbs, and on valbazen i gave 1 cc per 25 lbs. I dont have a real way to measure his weight so its an estimate.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

you can do cydectin today, but sometimes if they are bad enough it will take time for them to build red blood cells. Also reworm the worse ones in 2 weeks to help break the cycle.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Valbazen is a good choice because it also gets liver fluke which also can cause bottle jaw where cydectin does not..use Valbazen at the rate of 1 cc per 10# 3 times 10 days apart then once more in 30 days..be sure to do a complete program to get all stages of the worms...

for anemia
red cell and Vit B 12 
high protien feed, alfalfa and green leaves all help him rebuild his Red BLood cells..


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Liver flukes are very regional, if you do not live in the south, you don't have much chance of getting them, unless you purchases livestock from the south. Valbazen is an okay wormer, we have for sure used it. but for hard to death with barberpole worms you probably will need to go with cydectin. but valbazen or ivermectin plus, I would prefer ivermectin plus, are good choices if you have a chance of dealing with liver flukes.


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

I live in south georgia.... Im just going to stick with valbazen. He hasn't lost any weight but he definitely has bottle jaw  

The last post i had about red cell someone told me to give 6 cc per 100#, double it the first dose if they are really bad, give daily for a week, then once a week until their eyes are red. (This is just what i remembered correct me if im wrong about something). He's 6 months old and 80-100# so i gave him 10cc today and im going to give him 5 tomorrow. Should i give him a little more than 5 until the bottle jaw goes away? Should i let him graze or should i put him in a dry lot and give him grain (he won't even touch the hay)?
I was glad he was eating normal he ate all his feed today and grazed non-stop like usual and i wasent sure if i should take him out of the field incase he might start loosing weight. I dont know what to do, any suggestions?


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Does liver fluke cause bottle jaw? Or just bar pole worms? So cydectin is good for bar pole and valbazen for liver fluke?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You did right..double the first day..reg. dose after that for a week then once a week. 
Valbazen does both liver fluke and barpole..Cydectin does not get liver fluke....Liver fluke can cause bottle jaw as well..a fecal would tell you what you are dealing with but if you cant have one done then treating for both Barpole and Liver fluke is wise imo...
as stated Ivomec Plus is another good wormer which get both barpole and liverfluke..

I would let him graze...eat normal...


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Ok, ill leave him how he is he seems pretty happy with himself except for the fact his face looks like a chipmunk. He's starting to be a handful to catch he usually runs up to me, now he stops and checks if i have food and if not runs off i think hes tired of me shoving meds. down his throat and checking on him all the time haha. If anything changes for better or worse ill be sure to ask yall first yall seem to be the best people to help me out. Thank you


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Anything that can affect the liver function can cause anemia, as well as blood sucking parasites. Liver flukes obviously would cause liver problems. Barbepole worm eggs look like liver fluke eggs so they are sometimes missed when diagnosing. Copper poisoning, and some poisonous plants can also cause liver problems and then cause anemia and bottle jaw. 
I would say you are best to go with valbazen or ivermectin plus every 10 days for 3 treatments. my understanding is that ivermectin plus works a lot better on Liver Flukes than Valbazen, but would not work as well if it were barberpole worms. We did our entire herd for liverflukes this winter, and did ivermectin plus as an injection under the skin every 10 days. even though we are in VA, our vet agreed that we may have had a problem with the little buggers, even though at first he didn't think our animals came from far enough South to have had them. After the first treatment of ivermectin plus, one of our does that was giving us a lot of problems already, started scouring horribly and almost died the next day. The vet does believe this was a reaction to the kill off of the liver Flukes from our description to him. 
my point, is you might want to do the valbazen or consider doing one and seeing how he does and if continues or he replaces try the ivermectin plus on your goats.


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Ok, if it dosent get better ill switch to ivermectin plus. His jaw isn't as swollen as yesterday but its still swollen. I think the valbazen coupled with the red cell is working alot, thank you for all of the help.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Hope he gets better soon!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope it all works out


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dont be tempted to over worm...give the meds time to do its job...repeat in 10 days  keep up with the anemia treatment


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks guys!  He's looking better and better his jaw is still a little swollen but instead of being big as a baseball its now only a little swollen, less than the size of a golf ball. He has definitely gained his weight back from the new feed he has been on. He was on just alfalfa pellets but i started to add a little high protein grain when he got sick now hes at about half and half and i can tell the difference.  I'm thinking about leaving him on the new diet it seems to be helping him pack on the pounds, especially when winter comes in and he won't have pasture to graze. Now I've just got to get him to eat hay lol.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good news....the edema can take a while wo complety stay gone..but as long as you see improvement there is no need to worry...: )


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

It came back today. :'( I've been giving him red cell and his feed in the morning but i had to leave at 6 this morning and only had time to feed and water the horses chicks and chickens. I was going to just give it to him when i got home at 6 pm and didnt think it would matter as long as he got it. He acts fine but when i got home his jaw was all swelled up bad again. Does the red cell effect him that much? My other guess was since he eats feed in the morning he probably dosent graze as much because hes not as hungry and he probably rests more. But since he didnt have his feed on time he grazed more to make up for it and that made him swell up again? 

That's just a guess though. Does that mean he is getting worse or does it come and go? Like i said he has gained all his weight back and he still acts like his normal high energy self. I've been giving him either 'goats prefer power punch' or goat probiotic paste every other day it just depends on what i grab first.

Another thought i had was treating him for cocci just incase. I hate having to guess but this vet is the only vet within an hour and his words were "its just a goat its not like its a horse or something, if something happens thats that, its just part of it". Grrrr, he drives me crazy and is absolutely no help. I've never delt with cocci, does it cause bottle jaw and anemia? What do you treat it with and where do you get the treatment? Would yall recommend treating it without knowing thats the problem or will it not bother him if he dosent have cocci but i treat him anyway? If all else fails ill find someone who will take me to another vet out of town, i can't wait till next year and i can get my license i won't have to worry about finding a ride. 

I thought he was almost better and i came home to him like this, and i have to leave again early tomorrow so i have to count on my little sister (who loves to 'help' me with the goats) and my dad to actually do everything right. Im going to be worried to death tomorrow. Im sorry for writing so much but I'd rather self diagnose here than on google yall seem to know your facts.  Thank you for helping yall are awesome.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The bottle jaw is edema...its fluid that settles in the jaw ...So when he rest..the fluid seaps back down lessening the bottle jaw..after grazing through out the day it come back as the fluid seaps back...It can take a while for this to completely go away..It can be frustrating not to see a day or two then its back..as long as he continues to grow stronger dont worry...
Continue the red cell for a full week..the drop to once a week...keep it up until you see good color return..
Cocci can cause anemia if left untreated. but it does not cause bottle jaw ....You are treating correctly : ) it will get better...


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you happybleats! You have helped me with so many different situations and hearing that from you calms me down alot.  ill just keep up the same thing ive been doing and try to fight the urge to panic when it gets bad. Thanks again.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Your welcome...My Nubian took two weeks to fully recover but she was stronger and glossier with each day...


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

georgiagirl98 said:


> Thank you happybleats! You have helped me with so many different situations and hearing that from you calms me down alot.  ill just keep up the same thing ive been doing and try to fight the urge to panic when it gets bad. Thanks again.


You sound just like me, lol! Cathy is always helping us newbies out!


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Haha, yep. She's amazing at this kinda stuff, i can only imagine how healthy and happy her goats are.  

It had went down alot today again but i learned not to get my hopes up. And it sounds kinda crazy and i know its only been a week or 2 but i think hes gotten bigger, as in taller and fatter. I dont know if im starting to loose my mind, if its the feed and meds, a growth spurt, or if its just the fact that i have to fight him to make him swallow meds and im watching him alot closer than normal lol. Whatever the reason, hes doing a whole lot better. Thank you everyone.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good news..Im happy he is improving


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

I thought id put up an update... He still has it and its driving me crazy. He's still on red cell, high protein feed and is getting wormed on the 10 day schedule. He hasent lost any weight but his eyes are still pale and he still has a little puffy jaw. My baby cousin went with me to the field to give him the red cell the other day and asked me "why are you giving him medicine hes not sick" and i showed her his jaw and told her about it and she told me "no silly, hes a boy hes supposed to have that". come to find out she was talking about an Adams apple, lol. Im still laughing about that. X)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..kids are so funny!!


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Lol!


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Can you over dose on iron? I've been giving him red cell once or twice a week and yesterday i read on here that raisins will help so i got him some of those and was going to give him a hand full a day, i gave him to him the first time today and he loves them. But is that too much? His eyes are still really pale but no weight loss or scours, he has alot of energy and eats all his feed? But he still has edema?


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

I just checked the calendar and its been 2 1/2 weeks so maybe he'll be better soon. Good news though the little doe that had anemia that i treated the same time i started with him has nice red eyes  i guess i just caught it earlier with her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Some take longer than others to regain healthy color. Depending on how bad they are . You can over dose iron, but red cell once a week on an anemic goat is safe  raisins are fine in moderation . Anything over done can cause rumen upset. Especially new foods. Raisins IMO is best left as a treat. Glad your doe is back to red and your buck is on his way


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

Thanks


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