# Off-Flavored Milk in Excellent Doe



## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

I have a wonderful Saanen doe who freshened 2 months ago and all of a sudden she develops a strange bitter flavor to her milk when everyone else's milk is perfect! I have tasted her milk _directly from the teat _and it does not taste goaty . . . it just tastes bad! It also does not foam like my other does milk does :hair:

Everything I can think of that might fix it I've already tried and nothing's helping. :doh:

The bucks are _very_ far away from all my milkers
Her Somatic Cell Counts were well under 1 million (so I assume she's not sick)
Our milking conditions are _extremely_ sanitary
The barn does not have a strong odor and it is kept pretty clean
I have left her inside for a week and fed only oats and rye hay to see if it was a bitter plant she was eating out in the pasture- no change

She did the same thing last year, but she produces so much milk I want to keep her in rotation this year! Her mom and sister do not have this problem . . . and since her milk tasted great in the beginning of the year I don't believe the off-flavor is genetic.

What can be causing this? :shrug:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

WOW, Jess, I am not a dairy person but the only thing I could think of was if you changed the feed, or if she is able to get her head on the other side of the fence and eat some different weeds. 

I am sure some of the expert milkers will have some ideas. Good Luck


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm not a dairy person either...but could it possibly due to a strong heat?


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

kornhypknotic said:


> She did the same thing last year, but she produces so much milk I want to keep her in rotation this year!


When she did this last year, did it improve on it's own after a while? If so, I'd suspect a heat like RowdyKidz suggested.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Even though she is healthy and gets what the others do, believe it or not but certain does are sensitive enough to pass odors that they inhale into their milk. Are there any strong odor causing products being used close by?

I'm curious too as to wether or not she had better tasting milk after this point, also, how long did she go in milk?


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

I wasn't hear last year . . . but when I asked the farm manager he said that they just dried her up last year because of the flavor. So I don't know if it would have improved.

There are no strong odors nearby the barn that she could be inhaling.



grandmajo said:


> When she did this last year, did it improve on it's own after a while? If so, I'd suspect a heat like RowdyKidz suggested.


She shouldn't come into heat for another month though, right? She shows no other signs of being in heat.

Could she have a mineral deficiency or something? I give her free-choice minerals, but maybe she's got a problem with uptake of something? :shrug:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

Was she the same amount of time into her lactation last year when her milk went off flacor? It very well could be a hormonal change. Esecially if she kidded around the same date she did last year. 
beth


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, bummer, the history from her lactation last year would have been nice, to know if it is something that's going to stick around or not. Since they dried her off last year, I guess you won't be able to judge from that.

Normally they wouldn't be in heat yet, but this year doesn't seem to be a normal year. I'm hearing on other forums of really unusual behaviors this year, in both the does and the bucks. So I wouldn't totally discount that she might be having a heat. Also, there are a few does that seem to break the rules when it comes to heat cycles. I know of a lady in Michigan who has nubians, and some of her girls cycle year round, so maybe you have a saanen like that?

The only other thing that I can think of is to maybe take her temp, just to make sure that she's not running with a mild infection of some sort. If that's normal, I'd try to keep milking her for another few weeks, and taste the milk every 2 or 3 days to see if there's an improvement. If you don't see an improvement after 2 or 3 weeks, then it might just be that this is going to be the normal for her. I feel for you, I had a togg that was like that. It's very frustrating!


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

sparks879 said:


> Was she the same amount of time into her lactation last year when her milk went off flacor?
> beth


I think it was the same . . . but good records weren't kept on her off-flavor.

I will check her temperature too . . . she seems pretty healthy otherwise though :shrug: . If it is something hormonal will it probably go away on its own?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

It likely will, hormones rise and fall with normal heats, but this doe could naturally be "hormonal"....with freshening the hormones are high, as time passes they will drop, hopefully her coming into heat will level them out again.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

Well . . . it's been 3 weeks now and her milk does not taste much better :hair: . . . we're considering drying her up because our customers are complaining. :shrug: She's a fantastic producer and it would be such a waste to dry her . . . I just don't know what else to try.

Any other suggestions? I will try anything at this point.


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## Zelda (May 2, 2009)

If she was mine, I would try feeding her some Diamond Yeast and probiotics and see if there is any improvement. Maybe something is screwed up in her rumen. It's a very long shot, but I'd still try it.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

Zelda said:


> If she was mine, I would try feeding her some Diamond Yeast and probiotics and see if there is any improvement. Maybe something is screwed up in her rumen. It's a very long shot, but I'd still try it.


What the heck is diamond yeast? :scratch: Is that the same as any old yeast or is it a specific brand . . . or is it made out of diamonds, lol ?


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

grass fed goats tend to have sweeter milk. Some goats just dont have a good flavor. You might try crossing her with an ober or a nubian in years to come. Higher butterfat in the breeding may make the milk better. While still keeping the production of your doe. 
beth


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

Triple check her browse area. She may be gettin to stuff no one else is is. Also she could be more sensitive to the outside temp than the others. Luna's milk got a bit nasty when it got hot in Az.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

Her pasture changes constantly . . . but even when we isolated her and only fed hay she still had bad flavor.

It tasted a little less nasty today . . . it's almost like the milk got stale even before leaving her udder :scratch:


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Have you checked her temp yet? Perhaps she has a low grade infection of some sort. I think that I'd also re-check the somatic cell count too. I'm not sure what else to suggest, this goat is being quite the test!

I understand your desire to keep her in your milking rotation, but if your customers are complaining, then it might not be wise. Unhappy customers will try to find milk elsewhere, and will generally tell all their friends that your milk tastes bad. It's the curse of the business world, everyone forgets all the good things that you do, but instantly remember one bad one.


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## Zelda (May 2, 2009)

kornhypknotic said:


> Zelda said:
> 
> 
> > If she was mine, I would try feeding her some Diamond Yeast and probiotics and see if there is any improvement. Maybe something is screwed up in her rumen. It's a very long shot, but I'd still try it.
> ...


It's a food grade nutritional yeast and is like a probiotic - it makes the rumen work better (reduces acid, increases the number of good bacteria, improves digestion). It is very cheap at the feedstore - a couple pounds of it should be a couple bucks, and you just feed a TBSP topdressed on grain so 2# of it lasts a long time. It definitely straightened out my doe's rumen when it got messed up.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes certainly dont use her milk till you figure something out.

How long did you have her in a stall for and only on hay? was it alfalfa hay or just grass hay? I found that the alfalfa caused a goat of mine to have bitter tasting milk but not the others. (I sold her as a pet)


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> yes certainly dont use her milk till you figure something out.
> 
> How long did you have her in a stall for and only on hay? was it alfalfa hay or just grass hay? I found that the alfalfa caused a goat of mine to have bitter tasting milk but not the others. (I sold her as a pet)


We had her inside for 1 week on hay that we put up ourselves this winter. It's a oats, rye, and clover mix . . . pretty good quality stuff, but it is not pure.

I've been reading up on this A LOT :coffee2: and it seems like a bitter or stale taste that has nothing to do with how the milk is stored could be because of the animal's lack of protein/energy in their diet. She is on Sorghum Sudan grass pastures and supplemented with 2 pounds of Lacuesta Dairy Goat grain ration and 1 pound of corn a day. We added the corn 2 months ago so that our girls protein/energy needs could be met.

Is there some way that she could not be metabolizing enough protein/energy? If so, how can I fix that?

Edit: 
NEWS!! :shocked: I just got her Somatic Cell Counts, Protein, and Butterfat counts back and there was some difference from our other girls! SCC was below 1 million, butterfat was 2.05, but the protein was the interesting part. All our other goats had protein content of 2.74-2.15 . . . but Wappy (unfortunately, that's the name of the goat we are discussing in this forum . . . poor thing) had a _protein count of 1.93_! Finally, I may have found what's wrong with her milk!!! But I don't know what it means :help:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

maybe she is lacking in something that helps her to obsorb proteins? I would discuss this with a vet.

if she needs to be on a higher protein feed that would be easy enough to fix. YOu can add some BOSS to add protein 

How much corn and is it whole corn or cracked corn? corn in moderation is ok for goats but to much can be a problem.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> How much corn and is it whole corn or cracked corn? corn in moderation is ok for goats but to much can be a problem.


She only gets a pound of corn a day and it's flaked corn. We buy it special for dairy animals because the other types of flaked corn have aflatoxin (sp?) in it and can't be fed to dairy animals . . . this does not have that toxin.

I've been giving her 6cc vit B-complex daily for the past 4 days (I read somewhere that B vitamins help with protein absorption :shrug: ) and when I milk her out I let her drink as much of her own milk as she wants. She looooooooves it  She would drink more milk if I would let her . . . but I didn't want her to get the runs 

I feel like the flavor is getting _slightly_ better . . . but maybe that's just my imagination :scratch: It's reserved to a gross stale aftertaste now whereas 3 weeks ago it made me want to toss my cookies. Maybe it really is just a hormonal thing that will pass if given more time :shrug:


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Ok, now I definitely could be off base here, but I think that corn is only 8% protein? Although I'm not familiar with the type that you're feeding. 

Stacey made an excellent point about adding BOSS, if I remember right that runs about 15% protein, plus it has selenium in it too. Calf manna can also be used to up the protein, I think it's about 25%, so a little bit goes a long way.

If I'm adjusting anything with feed, I usually give it a 2 week trial before I make a determination as to whether or not it's working. That gives their body enough time to adjust to the change and for me to see results, if there are any. Just the way that I do it, not saying that's that way that it has to be done.

Interesting that her protein count in her milk is so low, as compared to your other goats. Did you by chance test it when it was still tasting good? I'm curious as to if it has dropped since she first freshened or not.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

grandmajo said:


> Interesting that her protein count in her milk is so low, as compared to your other goats. Did you by chance test it when it was still tasting good? I'm curious as to if it has dropped since she first freshened or not.


When she freshened her protein count was 2.38 (and her milk tasted really good when she freshened - no bad flavor whatsoever). So it has dropped quite a bit. Let me post our SCC/BF/Protein results in order:

*Wappy*

_6/19/09_
SCC - 345 (x1000)
BF - 1.69
Protein - 2.38

_7/13/09_
SCC - 257 (x1000)
BF - 1.56
Protein - 2.25

_8/13/09_
SCC - 126 (x1000)
BF - 2.05
Protein - 1.93

Sometime after 7/13 (maybe a week or two later) my customers started complaining about there being a bad flavor to the goat milk . . . I tasted everyone's milk and she was the culprit. At the same time the amount of milk she gave us jumped from 8 pounds/day to over 11 pounds of milk/day! I had to remove her from rotation, and I fed her our hay for 1 week, and bottled her milk for goat kids instead of people. Her production has slowed down to 7 pounds/day now.

This is so weird! Why doesn't this happen to her momma or her sisters or her kids or anyone else?! Why Wappy? Why?! :GAAH:


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm as stumped as you are.....I'm reading your test results, and what I'm seeing is a steady drop in SCC and the protein.

I hope no one is offended, but I think that I'd go to dairygoatinfo.com and post the results and explain the taste of the milk. There's some very experienced dairy goat folks there, who may be able to help you pin point what is going on. Although, I should forewarn you that a couple of them are a bit brisk with folks.

The only other thing that I can think of is perhaps doing a fecal test. Sometimes a wormy goat will give off tasting milk.

I feel your frustration....... :hug:


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

I will give that forum a shot too . . . somebody's got to have an answer for this problem. :help: 

I gave her a copper bolus in June to try to keep her from getting too wormy. I checked her anemia score and it's pretty good. I'll try to do a fecal sometime too, but I know barber pole and tapeworm are the problem in the herd right now. We did one on her last week and she definitely had worms, but she was not overloaded. :shrug: 

I've been using safeguard to deworm . . . should I be trying something else instead?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Depends on wether Safeguard is still effective in your area...around here, it is resistant, so for tapes I use pyrantel pomate liquid and for barberpole, I use ivermectin paste.


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Liz gave some excellent advice. I'm not sure about the Safegard, but I see you're in Texas. There are a few gals on the other forum that live in Texas, and a lot of their areas are resistant to ivermectin. I would ask what their using for worming. One of them is one that I referred to as being a bit "brisk", so be prepared. I still like to pick her head, she's got lots of knowledge, I just overlook her bluntness.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

grandmajo said:


> One of them is one that I referred to as being a bit "brisk", so be prepared. I still like to pick her head, she's got lots of knowledge, I just overlook her bluntness.


Thanks for the heads-up :wink: as soon as they send me an approval email I will ask. :thumbup:


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

They still haven't accepted me :scratch: 

What about subclinical ketosis? :shrug:


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## grandmajo (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, it takes them a few days sometimes to get to the approvals, I don't know why :shrug: 

I would lean more towards the ketosis if she was pregnant, or very newly freshened. Especially considering that she had good milk right after she freshened. 

I'm going to PM you the email address of one of the ladies on the other forum, just let her know that you've asked to join the forum but haven't been approved yet and have some urgent questions. Let her know where in Texas you're located, so she can help you with wormers for your area. And give her all the milk info that you have for this doe. She's been doing dairy goats for something like 20 or 30 years, so she has some good hands on experience. She may be blunt in her answers, but she's got some good info and she's willing to share it.


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