# Boer Breeders Advice Wanted!



## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

*Boer Breeders Advice Wanted!-Picture added!*

First off, I love this site and it has been an amazing tool for me over the last year so thank you all for that!! After some good thought I've decided to start raising boer goats, so I found good homes for my crazy mix breed bucks we had- I just wasn't willing risk the mistake of someone breaking through the wrong fence! lol I purchased 2 does about 3 months ago that are 75% with the ABGA a paint and a traditional. Now here is my real predicament/questions. I find myself caught in the middle as to if I want to continue getting registered does or start off with some commercials and work my way up. I'm thinking of adding 2 more does at this point. I plan on getting a 100% buck no matter which direction I go with the does. I would love to someday show, and I have two daughters that are fast approaching 4-H age but I've never shown goats so don't even know the start point with that. So to some it up, I'm looking for some input on which direction to go as I'm torn either way! Thank you in advance and I plan on getting some pictures of my girls today to share with you all!!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

If you know your goal is to have high % and fullbloods, then I would start there. That's what I did. Why bother buying a lesser animal to work up to what you actually want over years time? It might be a little more costly initially, but it'll work in your favor over the long run.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The mistake if you will, that I made early on was buying % does not Fullbloods as my foundation herd for showing. I just didn't know any better.
Several years later we still tend to place at the wrong end. 
It costs just as much time & money raising FBs as it does %.

eta As Tenacross would say, "Welcome to the dark side.";-)


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

You have a better way with words Nancy


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

sassykat6181 said:


> You have a better way with words Nancy


 Nah, we just said it differently.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you both! So I should keep in mind, quality not quantity! My husband will be glad to hear haha I am actually located pretty close to Max Boer Goats so I was checking their for sale page out the other day, needless to he was shocked to say the least. I guess I'm just going to have to start saving my pennies to get what I want! I love dapples, so I'm hoping to get at least one doe with color and also a dappled buck! Maybe I should go and get a business loan!!;-);-) haha!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Quality is the best way to go, starting out and getting what you can afford at the time, makes your investment well deserved.
You don't have to spend tons of money, there are good quality stock out there. Just shop around.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Where are you located? We might be able to give you recommendations


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

You say that your kids are approaching 4H age. I would recommend doing some investigating of your local 4H programs. If you can find one, they should be thrilled to tell you all about it. *If* there are opportunities to show wethers and wether shows are a big deal in your area and you can conceivably see yourself and family getting into that, then you might hold off buying all fullblood ABGA registered does, since ABGA papers mean nothing at a wether jackpot, and you will have a hard time finding goats specifically bred for the wether shows that are also ABGA registered. Not that you can't do both, but I'd hate to see you start off in one direction and then find you aren't as far along as you thought you were for what you actually end up wanting/doing. 

If you would like to show ABGA, and there is no reason why your kids can't be heavily involved in that, then I agree that you should buy the best you can, fullbloods preferably, to start out with.

If you are hard set on getting into the dapples and paints, there is nothing wrong with that and they do seem to be easier to sell at this time. However, you sometimes end up paying quite a bit from a breeder like you mentioned that won't be able to compete at an ABGA show, if you still desire that. There are people who specialize in colored goats who are also competitive at ABGA shows, as Crossroads can attest.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Excellent point about wether projects & fairs, Tim.
Yes papers are worthless in a terminal show.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you so much for all of your responses. I am going to be looking some people up I know that are active in 4-h and see what kind of demand I guess you could say is out there. It will be a couple years until my oldest is old enough for 4-h, but I would have no problem getting them involved in the ABGA shows. One of the reasons I decided to get into goats is because I felt showing would be a great hobby to have! I will definitely need a mentor when it comes to showing. Goats are totally new to me, and I have been learning a lot through this website and other research. The girl I bought my two girls off of now has been very helpful as well and pointed me in the direction a few sales coming up this spring. I plan on going to a few ABGA shows this year in my area to see what its all about. Of course the first one I found I have a wedding that day But I am located in Central PA, most of the goats I see for sale here local are just commercial bucks and does. Who would of known this would feel like such a huge decision! It also doesn't help that I'm the type of person that wants something, and wants it now!! lol


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Brittany89 said:


> I plan on going to a few ABGA shows this year in my area to see what its all about. Of course the first one I found I have a wedding that day


Usually, ABGA shows are two days. So check if you can catch your wedding and see the show.

And this is exactly how to do this right. Good thinking.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I've seen some % does go for more money then fb does, and for good reason too, the sale I went to a 50% brought $500 and a 75% was $1050. Some fb went higher then that but also lower. So I would look more at the quality of the animal then what her % is. Now one thing to keep in mind a buck must be 97% (???) To register him, and there are other people who think like you, I'm one of them, who will only buy 100% bucks. But as tennacross pointed out papers.and % means nothing for weather's 
Your on the right track, take your time and see what works and since you want to show, what wins


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

I agree with Jessica in looking at their quality versus percentage. A goat with bad conformation is going to be a goat with bad conformation. Their percentage doesn't make it worth it. However, if you do find a higher percentage that looks nice and is for a good price, go for it! If you want to show in ABGA shows alongside selling wethers, then just keep your eyes peeled for good deals.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

I'm thinking I am going to be taking my time and really looking for a good deal on the best possible animal I can afford. As hard as it may be to be patient. I've spoken to a couple people in my area and they all said mainly everyone who shows goats with our 4-h shows boers, but the leader of the goats club raises boers.. bet you cant guess where all their show wethers come from!! But I'm just going to have fun enjoying the search and indulging in as many pictures and info possible of the best looking boers that way I know exactly what I should be looking for. I appreciate all your help, and I'm sure I'll be back! I've attached a picture of my youngest daughter with our paint- Dixie! I know its not a picture you all can critique but thought I'd share! I can hopefully get out tomorrow and get some good pictures for you guys to critique and I can see how I'm doing so far!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Check out Triple I Boers in PA. I drove from Massachusetts to get two bucklings.

http://m.tripleigoats.com/site/mobi..._sig_potential_abuse=1&fb_sig_network=fw#3131


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I have to go against the grain, but I do not disagree with anyone. 
It is just my experience I'd like to share. I started out with percentages and had more buyers who asked for FB boer, so changed to all FB boer.
Make sure what is best for your area and preference of the buyer. 

We do not do 4h for the simple fact, we do not cut horns or dehorn our boer at all, so that doesn't work for us. 
We also had a very bossy, pushy customer, demanding we disbud and do this and that, before she even put any money down, that turned us off immediately, so for us, we rather not even deal with it, so we don't. It is up to you of course, what you want to do, but thought I'd share.
With whethers, kids get so attached to the goat they raise, it is can be devastating for the kids when they are sold and have to let them go.

I always want my foundation stock to be registered, as you can sell quality registered goats or sell as unregistered, the options will always be there. 
There is nothing like having a beautiful animal and you can not register that animal as you drool, just looking at him or her.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Here is another picture of Dixie taken today. She was 5 months on the 24th of this month. I wanted to get more but my two year old helper wasn't too into it haha Hopefully better ones this evening if weather allows! I *tried* to get a weight on her, looked to be around 65-70lbs. I feel as if she should be a little bit more for her age. Thoughts on this picture? Thank you!


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I have some about that age and about that size... I was told they were slow growers and will catch up.. She is beautiful 


Old Goats & Young Chicks Farm
Boer and Boer Cross


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> Now one thing to keep in mind a buck must be 97% (???) To register him, and there are other people who think like you, I'm one of them, who will only buy 100% bucks.


Hi-jacking (as usual!)

How come Jessica??

Just curious on the 97/98% bucks versus the 100% - why does it make a difference to people? Because another breed could have possible, at some point, made it in to the line?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Brittany89 said:


> Here is another picture of Dixie taken today. She was 5 months on the 24th of this month. I wanted to get more but my two year old helper wasn't too into it haha Hopefully better ones this evening if weather allows! I *tried* to get a weight on her, looked to be around 65-70lbs. I feel as if she should be a little bit more for her age. Thoughts on this picture? Thank you!


Dixie is cute! What breeder did you get her from?

From my commercial herd/non-showing eyes: she is lacking a bit of brisket that will likely come in later, and she is a little bit short bodied and short necked. She is definitely a "tube" shaped doe rather than a "wedge" shaped doe which I believe is show style. Overall I love her shape and without putting hands on her she appears thick. As for size for her age, I think she is A-Okay. But again, I'm not pumping a lot of show-line boers through my herd!


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you! We think shes cute too, but we may be biased! lol Her shortness was a lot of my concern. She almost looks compact to me, we have her twin sister also (pictures coming soon) and she is built the same way. I feel as if they have no legs! lol But I am totally new at this so my opinion isn't worth too much at this point! We got them from Dunlaps' Boer Goats here in PA, which have been great to deal with and very helpful!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Ahhh... when I wrote "short in body" - I meant that she doesn't have a great deal of length of body from shoulders to hips. I can see why you think she is just plain short as well!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She is nice, it is the way she is standing and about to turn it appears, as to why she looks short as in length, not as in tallness.


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## agilitymaster01 (Sep 25, 2013)

I personally started with commercial does my first year of raising goats in general (just so I could get to know the problems that arise with them, and how to treat some things). I didn't want to start with registered goats as it usually hurts the pocket book a lot if for some reason they pass away while you are trying to "learn" to treat things. Sorry if my wording is weird, but I was not sure how else to explain how I did it.  

I am just starting in the registered goat area now. Really learned a lot before getting them, and I am glad I did.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Holly that was my mindset at the time too. I have no regrets, as originally our goal was just raising for meat. But pretty soon it was time to try showing.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Always get what you can afford, being registered or not, it is up to each breeder where they want to begin and how much they want to spend.
Things can indeed happen but, if it doesn't, we are set back too, if we don't try to achieve what we want to have with the goats in the first place. 

It is always good to learn before getting animals, especially the basics to start. I didn't have TGS to help with issues, I learned from trial and error. 
So having this site of such beautiful people to help one another, newbies can jump ahead sort to speak and when something arises, they can ask and get help for their goats. :thumb:


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you all for your input. My thought process was to start where I affordably could, I'm not going to spending my bill money on goats so to say lol Go big or go home right? But in all seriousness I figured if I'm going to do this I might as well do it to the best of my ability. I've had goats before but they were pretty much our outside dogs as I would like to call them. So this whole critiquing aspect is totally new to me. I've been spending hours on the internet soaking in every bit of info I can, and this site has been a god send for me. Its my #1 go to when I have a question!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Always come to us, when you have an issue or question. I commend you for learning all you can, we need more people such as you. :thumbup:


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you! I'm sure I'll be back- more than once! lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

May be going to look at some possible new girls today or tomorrow, one is fullblood grand daughter of Status Quo, others are purebred daughters of RRD Rimfire, any opinions on those genetics?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good genetics.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Waiting on pictures now, but I'm excited! Hopefully can work out a package deal on two or three of them. Then I believe I'll wait about 2 months, get everyone settled in and then begin my search for a buck! Which is probably going to be a tedious decision.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Brittany89 said:


> May be going to look at some possible new girls today or tomorrow, one is fullblood grand daughter of Status Quo, others are purebred daughters of RRD Rimfire, any opinions on those genetics?


It's good breeding, but treat them like any other goats. Good ones have to be thick and packed with meat. Watch the teats, bites and pigment.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you for the advice, got the pictures a little bit ago and from what I could tell from those I think I may only be interested in the remfire daughters. But you know how pictures can be too, should be interesting. Hoping I do ok with my choices, I'm actually nervous!


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Quick question about pigment- Is there a different amount of pigment % does must have compared to the fullblood? I know the fullblood is 75% but should be 100%- just wondering if that is different for percentage?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

ABGA Standards for Percentage Boer Does

SKIN AND COVERING
Any extreme occurrence of an undesirable trait is a disqualification. Skin loose and supple. Eyelids and other hairless areas must be pigmented. Hairless areas under tail should be at least 50% pigmented; 100% is ideal. Short glossy hair is desirable. A limited amount of winter down or under coat will be acceptable during winter, especially in colder environments.
Faults: Hair too long or too coarse.
Disqualifications: Not enough skin pigmentation.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

A "Purebred" would follow the same rules as a Fullblood.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank you! I should've just took the time to look it up myself I guess! I apologize for that!! After some thought I've decided to hold out on going to check these does out. I'm just not 100% sure they're what I'm looking for the more I look at the photos. Think I'm gonna hold out a little bit and keep doing some more shopping. Patience is a virtue right! Lol plus I've had a breeder more local to me contact me and say she will know what she has available next week after she decides who is going to what sales in the spring... so I am excited about that. I really like this breeders stock from what I've seen


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Ok, I'm sorry if you all are sick of me! This pigment had my brain working last night..Checked my girls this morning.. pretty sure theres no pigment...:-x:-x I dont think anyways. Darn it.. They will be 6 months at the end of this month.. They aren't bring pink, but no where close to black..no spots.. and from what I'm reading they should be pretty much black back there.. Makes me mad at myself for not being informed enough when I bought them. Is this something that with a good buck will breed out, I didn't plan on showing either of these two girls, but possibly their offspring at some point. Soo guess my question is..what would you experienced breeders do (other than not get yourself in this position in the first place). Thank you in advanced, and sorry for having 100 Questions!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Brittany89 said:


> Checked my girls this morning.. pretty sure theres no pigment...:-x:-x I dont think anyways. Darn it.. They will be 6 months at the end of this month.. They aren't bring pink, but no where close to black..no spots.. and from what I'm reading they should be pretty much black back there..


I think there's a good chance these does of yours are fully pigmented, but the pigment is faded during the dark winter months. Pigment is not always jet black. Especially this time of year. There is no way for us to know however without pictures. Same thing for the prospective purchases.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Pics would help.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Going to head up and get some pictures now.. stay tuned!


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Here is the one, they're both pretty similar. I couldn't get the other picture to upload from my phone!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I'm sorry, I'm just not sure. Very few boer goats have "no pigment". Which makes me think she's good. But I am not a judge. Maybe put this picture on JT3's ask the judge thread.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

I have this picture that's a little brighter as well..


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## mrs.beers (Mar 26, 2012)

I _think_ she's fully pigmented--others that can tell you for sure will chime in soon. Some goats have darker pigment than others. I believe I've read the term "lavender pigment" which describes lighter pigment like your girl's.  And yes, a buck can fix pigment problems.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

mrs.beers said:


> I _think_ she's fully pigmented--others that can tell you for sure will chime in soon. Some goats have darker pigment than others. I believe I've read the term "lavender pigment" which describes lighter pigment like your girl's.  And yes, a buck can fix pigment problems.


I agree. And the second picture provided is even more encouraging. If mrs.beers and I are correct, you don't need a "pigment fixer" buck.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, all pigment is there. It would be white, white there if there was no pigment.


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## Brittany89 (Aug 12, 2014)

Thank goodness and thank you!!! haha I think I just have myself in crazy mode!! I'm glad I learned that today though, because the pigment thing was getting confusing to me! I've been in touch with a couple breeders some what in my area that I've been trolling their websites for the last week. Its funny, when I first started looking for some boers when I would visit a breeders website the first place I went was the for sale page, now I go to herd sires- then does- then their management plan if listed- then for sale.. I think my husband is slowly going crazy with all my goat talk- but he's been a trooper through it. I'm slowly working him into the dark side. Well, the search will continue I suppose. Also, while I have you all here- Sweetlix Meat Goat Maker 16:8- where are you all getting it. I went to their website but couldn't find anywhere local to me so I was wondering if anyone buys it online? I've had my girls on Pro-Manna, but it hasn't been impressing me. The doe that I had pictured in the pigment- her feet are working on me. Being a newbie I've been doing my trimming in a couple different sessions because I don't want to go too far down and I can never seem to get hers right. I don't know if some of it is because our weather has been so wet with the snow and mud, if there is a deficiency, or its just her. But that's a whole other thread! Thanks again everyone! I'll be sure to keep you all updated when I find another possible purchase doe!!


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