# The Difficulty of Organic Goat Dairy?



## Goatling (Apr 27, 2013)

Hello!

I have had several people tell me to run an organic goat dairy is very hard as the goats often get parasites, and your options for addressing this are very limited when you are organic. The people who have said this are not generally goat people, but people who are generally in the know about the industry as a whole. Can anyone comment on this, or point me to some good resources or posts, articles, etc?

Thank you!
Peter.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

fiascofarms.com has a lot of herbal remedies


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Where are you located? I would think raising goats without being able to use an antibiotic when you NEED it would be tough with goats (or any milk animal). I've actually only used antibiotics a few times, but, I would have dead goats without it.

I live in a state with winter, if you live somewhere like Texas, you may have a problem with parasites. I've heard DE works for some and not others. I don't have a huge worm problem, but, when I do I use a chemical dewormer. Good luck, let us know what you learn.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Worming is an issue, the herbal wormer works very well for people here, in central NM, on dry lot, but the fact is nothing also works very well. This is because we are in a high desert plus there is not enough irrigated land to put them on pasture for most people. I have had goats here 9 years and never wormed them. When I have had fecals done there was nothing. I was shocked. But the vet didn't understand why I wanted to do it when there were no symptoms. So I'm not sure how well they work in places that actually have parasite issues. 

Another issue is food. You have to feed them organic food to be certified organic. It can be very hard to get and certainly more expensive. 

And then there is the question of antibiotics that Di raises, I sure do agree with that. 

Clean, fresh carefully handled milk is a huge and rare thing, let alone having it be organic. I sure would start out with something a little less difficult, if there is a choice.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Organic certification is a nightmare of expensive paperwork. People who eat and buy organic are beginning to realize that fact and as long as they know that basic organic practices are being followed aren't worried about the little seal. 
I personally could never afford to lose a good milker in order to be able to say I never used antibiotics. There are times when nothing else will save a goat's life.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

well, i'm not sure if you want to be certified or not, i think you first have to consider that, cost and time wise....

then, the price you'd get for your products vs. cost of raising the animals and keeping them safe.

but i think something more important is whether you have a good goat person near you who can provide you good organic practice insight. or at least a vet who's willing to work with you on being organic. I try to stay organic as much as possible, but sometimes you just need the pharmaceuticals.

Waltz's Ark and Fisaco Farms has great organic farming methods.

Good luck!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I use herbal and it works GREAT for me. BUT ... I have a very small herd and can keep a close eye on them. They eat have a specific diet to keep them in good condition, and I modify the doses if need be. 

I just bought a Lamancha doe that came to me with WHITE eyelids. I started her on my herbal wormer -- Molly's herbal #1 at double dose for 5 days. Eyelids are back to pink 

I like keeping things as natural as possible, but I will and do use chemical means to keep my herd healthy when needed, no hesitation. 

Fir Meadow and Fias co Farm are great resources for herbs.


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## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

Another thing that will help with parasite control is being able to rotate the pastures they are using, so that they aren't browsing and pooping in the same place all the time.


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## Goatling (Apr 27, 2013)

Hello again!
Thank you all for the great comments. I live on a certified organic farm, so that part is no issue. It does sound like even from those with experience with goats, that this is a tough issue. Certainly for me the first thing is the goat's health. That being said, there are people who go to the hospital and take whatever the doc says to take if they are ill, and there are those, like myself, who generally don't ever go to the hospital, rarely if ever take medication, and only will do so if it seems to be the smartest option based on the health concern. So, I don't want to be stupid about my animals' health, and I also don't want to use drugs unless they are needed. It would seem I need to educate myself, and move along slowly. This is not about the money for me, this is about making what I see as healthy choices, for my family and I, for the land, for the goats, etc, AND, sometimes the drug is the best thing. If my arm became separated from my body you bet I'd be on my way to the hospital! Since I live in SW Wisconsin, I'm sure there are parasites everywhere in Summer.

On a completely separate but very noteworthy note: My wife's 1 year old Corriedale Shetland cross Ewe just birthed beautiful twins about 15 minutes ago! One black, and one white! A great easy birth (as births go!) Last year I had to reach my arm all the way inside Grandma Ewe as both her twins presented face only, and without one leg and the other ankle up and over the cervix they would not come, but I got them safely out with the excellent help of a great vet, as I had never done anything of the kind before!
Blessings~
Peter.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

amazing! well, maybe you could get a goat or two and see how things go with just a couple, and grow from there? I live in the tropics, and the vets here have told me that i need to worm my girls every six weeks....which to me sounds excessive, so I switched over to herbals that I've been mixing myself, and it's been over two months since I've had to use any chemical wormer. So it can be done!


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Colloidal Silver works wonders for mastitis, respiratory, cyst, cuts and anything that can get infected. 

I only worm with herbs and dont have a problem. 

Olive oil and neem oil work great along the spine for lice.

Oil of Oregano is a blessing from heaven. 

Turmeric and Coconut oil will speed heal wounds. 

Coconut oil and peppermint oil will sooth chapped udders.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

My problem with organic is- how can something be chemical free when the chemicals are everywhere? In the soil, rain, snow, wind, pollen, carried by insects etc? 

The farms I am familiar with ship any sick animals to slaughter because they will not treat them with any type of medication. To me that is a great waste of life.

I worm only if there is a worm burden, as found by a fecal. I almost never medicate unless it is a bad infection, which I have not had in my herd in a ***** age. My animals don't get sick hardly at all. I feed a balanced diet and let them be goats (horses, dogs, chickens) and don't try to humanize them. The worst thing we can do to our animals is try to make humans out of them. They go outside year round, even when its well below 0. Their barn is not insulated. They go about their business as close to natural as they can do in captivity.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Rev144 said:


> Colloidal Silver works wonders for mastitis, respiratory, cyst, cuts and anything that can get infected.
> 
> I only worm with herbs and dont have a problem.
> 
> ...


I'm curious how you administer colloidal silver for mastitis.


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## sgian (Jun 18, 2008)

I've had a few problems with several types of parasites in the past, including losing several to liver flukes (which my regular wormers didn't deal with) before figuring out was wrong. My climate gets snow in the winter and mud in the spring and fall. The issue with parasites I believe can be reduced by browsing rather than grazing. In the past I kept my goats in pastures that were almost all grass, so they were forced to graze with their own pellets on the ground. Even rotating pastures didn't work for me. This kind of pasture is better suited for sheep in my opinion, and I now have sheep in those pastures, which are healthy and have not needed wormers even though when goats were on the same pasture the goats needed regular worming as indicated by pale eyelids, diarrhea, etc.

Goats, from what I've been told and read on the internet, need more browsing bushes and trees. If they browse, they aren't eating as much of their own poop and reinfecting themselves. And goats seem more susceptible to parasites than sheep, in my experience. This is what I'm trying now, and what the guy I bought my current batch of goats from has been doing. He hadn't wormed in two years, and the eyelids of the goat I checked from his herd were red and didn't show any signs of anemia.

So I think this might be part of why some people have lots of problems with parasites, while others in the same area have no problems with parasites. It seems to me to be the type of pasture that the goats are in.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I have no pasture at all. They can still get the eggs from cleaning themselves or putting their feet in their feeders. grrrrrrrr.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

elchivito said:


> I'm curious how you administer colloidal silver for mastitis.


I mix it with a little molasses, put it in a drench gun and shoot it in the mouth. Usually with in five days its on its way out the door. I keep giving it to them for 10 days.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Rev144 said:


> I mix it with a little molasses, put it in a drench gun and shoot it in the mouth. Usually with in five days its on its way out the door. I keep giving it to them for 10 days.


How much? Does it come in various strengths?
Thanks.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Not sure if this link will get you there. It's a group on FB- totally natural goats- https://www.facebook.com/groups/152871881437232/ It has a ton of information and very knowledgable people.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

I was just going to recommend the Totally Natural Goats group on Facebook, but I see clearwater has beat me to it! Great place, there are lots of people there who are certified herbalists or just have lots of experience using herbal and natural methods.


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## trmeyer (Mar 2, 2011)

I would be interested in joining that group on facebook but when I click the join button it tells me that I don't have permission to request to join. Is it an invite only?

Thanks

Tracy Meyer


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

trmeyer said:


> I would be interested in joining that group on facebook but when I click the join button it tells me that I don't have permission to request to join. Is it an invite only?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tracy Meyer


I just joined after reading all the posts about this fb group...you have to be approved by the admins. Does it say that your request have been sent? I believe that was what it said when I clicked "join".


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Try join again if it doesn't work, you should still be able to click on kristie millers name- it'll take you to her page and you can message her so she can get you on there.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

elchivito said:


> How much? Does it come in various strengths?
> Thanks.


I have a colloidal silver generator and make my own. YOu can find instructions on how to make them online or youtube. Or you can buy one premade. Mine ends up being about 17 parts per million. Not sure on what is available in the store. I think most of it is 10 parts per million. Which should do the trick too.

I usually give 20 to 30 cc, but you probably dont need that much. I myself drink about a tablespoon a day.

One time I had a sheep who got mastitis really bad, so bad that her udder got an open wound on the outside. I sprayed the colloidal silver on the wound and it cleared it up in days. Also gave internally too. It taste like water so you don't have trouble getting them to drink it. I have even put it in the drinking water. Sprayed it in the eye of a goat who had pink eye, cleared up in a few days.

They use to use colloidal silver on burn victims. Not so much anymore because you cant make money on more surgeries, skin graphs and stuff if the person is healed.


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