# I'm so confused about feeding.



## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

I need some help please. Our 5 Nigerian have been here less than a week. I have separated the Guys from the Gals. Both pens have a lot of grass and browse...for now. I will allow day trips on the rest of our land when the pens start declining. They both have rain proof shelters, water and minerals. I have not dewormed yet. Lower eyelid color is pink but I think its a lighter pink than it should be. I'm taking stool samples to the Vet on Mon. As far as their weight....looking at other ND pictures, I think they are a little thin.

The previous owners said they only feed hay in the winter. They fed about 4 1/2 cups of "Goat Sweet Feed" from TSC twice a day in a communal bowl. The feed was just to keep them "tame'. Tame....doesn't quite explain it! They demand it. Every time they see one of us they call/cry until we bring them something. I do give them the sweet feed twice a day and the Grand kids take them fruit and veggies from my gardens. Several times a day, we go sit with them, sometimes brushing or just scratching. They are very affectionate! Won't hesitate to crawl right up in our laps. We love that! 

What should we feed them? I realize the amount of sweet feed is not nearly enough. I've read the Guys should not have it. Both are intact. The 2 kids are 3+ months old. (1 Buckling, 1 Doe) are separated but still growing. I don't know if the 2 Nannies are pregnant. I've been told if I feed them, they will not eat down the brush. 

Feeding is supposed to be the Grand kids responsibility so I need to teach them right. I'm am thinking we should just give the Gals the sweet feed/alfalfa and give the Guys just alfalfa pellets....? Should I just buy a Goat feed with AC in it that all 5 can eat. 

Thanks ahead for your help and advice.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

There is no set way of feeding goats, it's all pretty much what works for you and your goats.

This is what I do:

I have no browse except what I can find down and drag home from away. I live on 1 acre, so it's hay and grain and weeds when I weed my garden.

My hay is local grass/weed hay, 1st cut which is usually cut in late July/early August due to the weather for drying and getting machinery on the fields.

My entire herd get grained every day, all year round. I feed a dariy pellet, varies between 16-20% depending on what the sex is, if they are pregnant, lactating, growing or doing nothing.

Dry adult does get 1 pound of 16% pellet a day and hay 3 times a day. 

Milkers get grained on how much they are producing. They get the 20% pellets while the kids are on them and I am milking them. Once late summer/ fall comes around I drop it to 16%. (if I don't everyone has triplets or quads. I am happy with twins) They get between 2 and 4 pounds of pellets per feeding (2x a day). I add a fat supplement to the morning feeding (either Omegatin or rice bran meal) and soaked beet pulp to the evening meal. I top dress a di-calcium phosphate supplement to the beet pulp. Hay 3 times a day.

The doelings stay on milk until fall, either from goat mom or human mom (via a bottle). They get free choice 20% dairy grower in a creep feeder until they outgrow the creep. Once that happens they get grain twice a day at feeding time in several communal feeders. Hay 3 times a day.

Bucks get the 11% protein textured horse feed when not breeding. They get soaked beet pulp mixed with the grain at night with the calcium supplement topdressed. Hay 3 times a day. During rut they get 16% protein meat goat grower, fat supplement, beet pulp and hay.

These are standard sized dairy goats, Nubians and Lamanchas and 1 Oberhasli.

If I can find some alfalfa pellets that are not too expensive, I add 2 pounds of those to their feed a day per goat. If I am doing that, I don't need the di-calcium phosphate.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Thank you lottsgoats for your reply. I really appreciate the time you took with your reply even though our situations are way different. I admit.... it is a little discouraging that no one else has tried to help/advise. I will just keep doing more research. Even though I had a basic knowledge of Goat care, I have learned a lot from this forum.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I currently have 3 pens of Nigerian and Nigerian Pygmy cross.
All 3 have a field pasture as well as plentiful growth within the pens.
My does in milk, kids and dry doe are in one pen and they get a timothy grass hay in the morning, all get a 18% goat feed that has ammonium chloride Kalmbach is the brand I use. Does in milk get 4 cups 2x a day, kids get 1 cup 2x a day. I add in 2 cups of alfalfa pellets when I have them to give.
2 Bucks in the next pen, at this time, they get hay in the morning and a cup of feed each 1x a day.
3 Nigerian/Pygmy cross pets..1 wether, 2 does get hay in the morning and grain as a treat every other day.
All have access to loose minerals 24/7
All 3 pens are over grown and the pastures are eaten down some but not alot. All goats are at good weights and condition.... the 3 cross pets are actually a bit too over conditioned just on pasture 

My rule for feeding is that all "kids" get a cup of feed 2x a day until a year old then the amount is cut by half as they do the most growing between 3 and 8 months of age. Does that are bred get a cup of 18% and alfalfa mixed hay and alfalfa pellets midway through pregnancy and grain cut by half the last month as kids in utero grow the most during that time, this way they don't get too big and mom still gets what she needs.
Bucks during rut do get added feed as they are most often more interested in breeding than they are with eating so the added feed helps keep them in condition.
Wethers and dry does don't need much by way of grain if they have good hay and browse available.
I keep a mineral out that has added AC to help prevent stones... and fresh water in clean buckets is always a must, goats will drink more if it's fresh, clean and cool in summer and in winter, mine enjoy buckets of warm water.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I raise standard sized goats - not Nigerians - but the principles are the same, it's just the amounts that change. Good on you for getting fecals done on them! That will tell you what, if anything, you are dealing with in the way of worms. The 2nd thing I would do is to get a body condition for them. This article explains how to do that.

http://www.luresext.edu/goats/research/bcs_factsheet.pdf

Since they have been at your place for less than a week, it is entirely possible that they are not eating like they normally would and that could account for them appearing to be thin. Being in new, strange surroundings can easily stress an animal out, and stress can knock them off feed to some degree.

If there is ample grass and browse, there is nothing wrong with not feeding hay while that is available. I, personally, don't like sweet feed and will not feed it for a couple of reasons. 1) It is nearly impossible to transition them to a better feed if needed/wanted, and 2) Molasses is pretty much empty calories, can cause changes in the ph of the rumen, and can cause polio.

Feeding hay should not keep them from browsing/grazing, but you will have to experiment to find the balance of how much hay vs foraging. Obviously I cannot speak for all goats, but mine will ignore their hay on the days I turn them out in the yard to browse.

Unless you are planning on using the bucks for breeding - castrate them. It will make your life a whole lot easier.

Once they settle in and become accustomed to their surroundings, if you find they are a little thin - add a lb or so of good quality alfalfa or grass/alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. Keep an eye on them and adjust as needed. You don't want the doeling to get fat because she will deposit fat in her udder and that will interfere with milking later on. Although the protein content in the hay is going to vary from producer to producer, the alfalfa pellets will deliver a consistent protein content of around 18%. It will also add calcium to help balance the calcium to phosphorous ratio. Non-breeding bucks who have reached maturity do not need straight alfalfa. Open and short bred does do not need straight alfalfa. Lactating does and growing kids are the only goats who need straight alfalfa. Your 2 kids would benefit from straight alfalfa for another 2 to 3 months, then transition them to grass/alfalfa. The benefits of grass/alfalfa hay is that it helps to balance the calcium(alfalfa)/phosphorous(grass) ratio, and it is not as hot a hay as straight alfalfa.

Although I'm reluctant to give advice on how to feed wethers, the big contributors to UC is banding/castrating too young and straight grass hay due to the phosphorous content.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you know how big your pens are for each group? You may end up needing to feed hay even in summer depending on how much browse is available. If you wanted to sustain them on JUST pasture I believe the stocking rate is about 4 goats per acres (for miniatures).

Definitely base your decisions on that Body Condition Scoring that was posted above. Hair/fur can be very deceiving!

If the bucks were kept with the does at the previous place they are likely pregnant but you may want to do a blood or urine test to confirm that. It's important to feed pregnant does enough protein to keep them in condition and able to produce milk when they kid.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Here is what I do: 


I feed all of my goats a free choice grass hay. The does do not eat the hay when their pasture is overflowing. I haven't filled up their hay in probably three weeks. The pasture is the base of their diet. 
Limited amounts of 16% protein pellets are given to my dry does, and when they come in milk, I increase the amount so they produce more milk for the kids, however, it is important not to overfeed a pregnant doe, so her kids don't grow too big. I also give my milkers alfalfa hay. 
My bucks are never given grain, but in rut, we feed them alfalfa pellets, once daily, so they can keep in halfway decent condition. When they are nt in rut, I only give them small amounts of alfalfa pellets. Bucks always have free choice grass hay, and every once in a while get a treat of alfalfa hay. 
All of my goats have a LOOSE (not block) mineral free choice, as well as clean water.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Yep I have to agree with the others, they are all fed different per animals breed and location to where you are. My girls only are on pasture right now. I do not feed grain unless I have to lock them in the barn because of a snow storm, it is my way of telling them I am sorry they are locked up :twisted: I also only feed it when they are pregnant or nursing their babies. 

I will agree with the bucks, if you are not going to breed them every year, I would get those boys castrated. SOME bucks can get pretty mean when they are in rut, and they will stink (some people say). It is a horrible smell and hard to get off your hands and cloths. So unless you are going to breed them I would get them castrated, and find a buck later to breed to and send him back home. 

Make sure what you are feeding them from the garden is safe for them. Some things are more likely to make them bloat and some are poisonous.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Thank you so much for all the replies. Y'all have provided me with a lot of great advice. The Body Condition Scoring link MsScamp provided is going to be very helpful! 

Both pens are 2 acres fenced with 5' chain link fence. I have not had any other animals in these pens for over 5 years. We have kept about 1/2 mowed and the fence lines cleared. There are a lot of blackberries and muscadines in the trees. Guess I won't be harvesting those this year! My plan was to let them acclimate to their new home and us.... in the pens for a bit. Then I will let them day browse in portable pens on the rest of the land. We have about 6 acres that is woody with a lot of underbrush. Our entire 12 acres is fenced with the 5' chain link. I do not plan on letting them out in the areas around the house with my vegetable/herb gardens or in my orchard. The treats I've allowed the kids to feed from my gardens is just scraps from the kitchen. Our meals are planned by what we harvest/preserve. We garden organically, compost and do not use chemicals at all. 

After reading y'alls advice I on my way to buy some fescue hay from a lady nearby. They are so spoiled to getting sweet feed twice a day, I will switch to just alfalfa pellets for now. We will have to remove the Buckling from the pen he shares with the Buck to get more in him. I sure he will love the extra attention! I'm hoping... the fescue hay will balance the alfalfa pellets. I hung 2 small containers in each shelter. One for baking soda and one for Purina loose goat minerals. I added a box of activated charcoal to my Critter First Aid box just in case. 

I talked to the Vet today about castrating the Buckling. He said it was up to me but he prefers to castrate in the cooler months due to the flies. "William" is only 3+ months old so I may wait until late fall. I am undecided about castrating "Bristol" the Buck. If the the 2 Does are not already bred we may choose to breed next year. I am picking up the supplies to pull some blood for testing in the morning. If they are pregnant I will definitely add more protein to their feed. 

Thanks again for all your help. Wow! I have learned so much from the forum already! We really want to give these Goats the best possible care. I have visions of us all growing old together!


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Your 3 month old buck is the perfect age for banding. Just buy an elastrator and some green rings, you'll be good to go. Or have a friend/the vet do it. It quick, easy and won't leave a big wound. Some fly spray will keep the bugs off.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Naunnie said:


> After reading y'alls advice I on my way to buy some fescue hay from a lady nearby.


A word of warning on fescue hay - make sure it is endophyte free. Some types of fescue have a fungus called endophytes, and they can be bad news. Be sure to ask the producer. Yes, the calcium in the alfalfa pellets will help balance out the phosphorous in the fescue. Ask your vet about banding your guy. It is bloodless, does not leave a big wound, and won't draw flies like knife castrating will. I've banded my bucklings in summer months with absolutely no problems. For that matter, you could band him yourself and eliminate the vet bill. It isn't difficult.


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

Oh No! In my area fescue and bermuda hay is what is available. I've fed both or a combo for years to horses and never heard of endophytes! Thank goodness I only bought 2 square bales to try. I really was impressed with this hay. Its clean, smells good and wasn't dusty. Bales went straight to barn on baling day. They haven't had any hay since winter, so I only put 1 flake in each pen last night. 

They advertised the hay as "UGA Tested Horse Quality Hay". Their Horses looked in fine condition. The field looked good to me. No weeds or debris but I could tell their next cutting is going to be a fescue/bermuda mix. I'll call the lady back and ask to test the "test results". Guess I also need to do my own research about the UGA testing!

Thanks for the heads up MsScamp!

I also did some reading about Banding last night. I will ask the vet about it. Not sure why he didn't bring it up. This Buck ling's scrotum is a lot bigger than what I saw in some pictures. They are almost as large as the Bucks. I'm not really sure how to properly describe them... but his scrotum hangs almost to his hocks. Does that make a difference about which way to castrate him? I don't want traumatize him.....too much, if I can help it!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Naunnie said:


> I also did some reading about Banding last night. I will ask the vet about it. Not sure why he didn't bring it up. This Buck ling's scrotum is a lot bigger than what I saw in some pictures. They are almost as large as the Bucks. I'm not really sure how to properly describe them... but his scrotum hangs almost to his hocks. Does that make a difference about which way to castrate him? I don't want traumatize him.....too much, if I can help it!


No problem! At the risk of sounding cynical, probably because he can't charge you as much. :laugh: The size of his scrotum won't make a difference - banders come in a variety of sizes. How far it hangs down doesn't really make that big of a difference. The scrotum is elastic so that it adjust how far it hangs from the body according to the weather. Heat tends to cause problems with sperm viability, so the scrotum hangs farther from the body. When it gets cold, it will snug up next to the body to keep the little swimmers warmer. It's really pretty fascinating how it does that!


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## HawaiiHorseGirl (Apr 11, 2014)

MsScamp said:


> How far it hangs down doesn't really make that big of a difference. The scrotum is elastic so that it adjust how far it hangs from the body according to the weather. Heat tends to cause problems with sperm viability, so the scrotum hangs farther from the body. When it gets cold, it will snug up next to the body to keep the little swimmers warmer. It's really pretty fascinating how it does that!


Haha this made me laugh. So it's essentially a temperature gauge!


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## laurelsh (Jun 26, 2013)

Lottsagoats: what kind (brand) of dairy pellet do you feed? I'm in a similar situation, small acreage with no pasture.


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