# Awful looking udder vs milk production?



## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, so the title says it all. I have a FF ND that might have the worst looking udder I have ever seen, but produces a lot of milk.
It started coming in lopsided about a month before she was due, and it never evened out.

She only had one big girl. The girl will nurse on both sides, but favors the smaller side.

I have been milking her large side since she gave birth 2 weeks ago, in the hopes of evening her out a little bit. 

So, here is my dilemma... She is giving me over 1/2 gallon a day, and I am only milking her one large side, and I'm not even completely emptying it.

Do I even consider keeping her daughter?

This is not the kind of udder I want to breed. Especially since I have does that have wonderful looking udders. 
However, I have also been really happy in the past to get 1/2 gallon out of any FF with no kids on them.

The male she was bred with and wonderful udder and milk genetics. However, do I really want to bother trying to breed out this awful looking udder, when I can keep the offspring from mothers that already have great udders?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That really is up to you. If you really don't want a bad udder, sell her as a home milker. Someone would be thrilled with a good milker and not care about how the udder looks.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Lopsided is not a genetic trait. So if they udder shape and attachment is good, why not keep the doe if you were wanting to.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Well, it's nice to hear that a lopsided udder is not genetic. However, even if was not lopsided, it still wouldn't be good.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

Other than lopsided,where do you fault her udder? Do you have pictures?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

If the udder is noticeably bad, then I would evaluate any relatives. The dam, grand dam. What kinda udder the sire was throwing to determine if there is a history of bad udders. Then decide what the future of the kid was. If the kid was destined to a life of showing and pedigrees, then I dont think Id keep the dam. If the sire was know for correcting udders, then Id keep the kid till she freshened. But if they are just going to have a life on a farm with no shows, A good utility udder (not very pleasant to look at but productive) is great to have on a working farm. As long as there is enough attachment to hold that udder up over the years, then how it looks isnt important. If you have multiple goats, an udder like that can save you when extra milk is needed.


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

If she was bred to a buck with good udders behind him, you could always keep her daughter and just see how she freshens, assuming you have room. If her daughter doesn't have the type of udder you're breeding for, you can always sell her and the dam as backyard milkers.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

I agree with the others. It really depends on what your goals are. One of my girls has a really nasty looking udder, but she gives me the most milk, it's rich and delicious and her lactation period is at least 3 yeas. (I milked her three years, then dried her off to kid.) She's also a sweet heart and very attached to me. We don't show our goats, so we figure it really doesn't matter what the udder looks like. She has kids on her now and when we sell them, I will show the potential buyers what mama's udder looks like and be sure they are in it for the milk, and not the show. In fact, I will advertise her that way so people know before driving out here to see her.

With that being said.... if you kept her daughter, would you be keeping her for future milk? Does it matter to you what her udder looks like if she is meeting your needs and producing well? If you want a good milker, and her dam is good in that department, and her daddy has a good line, I would go for it. Just evaluate your goals and follow your gut.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

If you want to even the udder out I would be extra milking the small side mainly because her hormones will kick in thinking she needs to put more milk in that side and it will start growing.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, so here is the thing. Of course, I want good udders, good confirmation, with high milk production. Isn't that the goal of most dairy goat owners whether they show or not? 
My question is do you sacrifice one thing for another in hopes of improving on it down the road with their offspring? 

The male I used does have all the pedigree behind him. So, there should be improvement with her daughter, but that requires a lot of time and effort to find out. Is it worth it? 

So, my question is.... What would you do?


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

When I happen to be in your position with a goat I will try what I said above and work that then the next year she will kid again and if what I did the year before worked then I will keep her if not then I would sell her. All first fresheners will have awful looking udders it is natural they don't really have an idea how much there babies are going to eat so they will just produce enough to be adequate but it is our job to show them how much they need to produce and where they need to produce it. If it is not done the first kidding then it will be extremely difficult to do it the next freshening.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

goatygirl said:


> If you want to even the udder out I would be extra milking the small side mainly because her hormones will kick in thinking she needs to put more milk in that side and it will start growing.


Her daughter is nursing from the other side, there is really not a lot left to take.
I am milking the large side because I don't want it to dry up or let the skin expand anymore than it already has. The skin is already much looser on the larger side when she is milked out.

I was even thinking about taping the smaller side so it has a chance to really expand and fill to capacity, while forcing her to drink from the large side.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I would judge her confirmation then. If she has pretty much everything else I am looking for in a goat other then the nasty udder, Id keep her kids and breed for a better udder while attempting to hold onto the confirmation. If she is flawed in other areas as well. Id sell her kids. If I didnt have a need for her, Id sell her as well.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't sacrifice anything when planning my breedings, it's all about a good pairing, what area's of improvement does the doe need. Look for that in the buck, and choose accordingly. 
Lopsided udders are not genetic, so I see no reason for the daughters to have it unless they are improperly milked, kids favor one side if dam raising, self sucking, mastitis, etc. 

After the kid hits the ground, it doesn't have to take 2 years to see how the freshen. Breed them at 7-8 months if she's big enough, then you have the answer of "is she an improvement" by the time she's 12-13 months old.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Exactly even with her daughter nursing that side when you milk the full side even if the other side is empty just take a couple minutes and squeeze the other side like you are milking her. Even when she is completely empty still do it. A goat's hormones will be "oh my baby is out of milk I need to make more" so then that side will start producing a little more then start milking it for longer after she is empty and she will produce more. Just like a cow farmer if a farmer decides to milk once a day the cows hormones will be "oh I am producing to much i should slow down" but some farmers milk three times a day then a cows hormones will be "oh I am not milking nearly enough I need to make more" and will start making a thousand gallons more.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, if its not genetic, how did it get lopsided? 
It was lopsided before she kidded. She is a FF, no mastitis, no self sucking, no injury. If it's not genetic, what else could it be?


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

The lopsidedness is probably because she had only one; her hormones are thinking that they only need to produce for one. You need to correct it now if that is what it is or next year her body will think the lopsidedness is okay and will do it again even if she has more than one kid.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

If you only care about milk, then keep them. If you want to produce nice looking udders, then sell them. It takes a long time and many generations to get a doe with a decent udder by starting with one with a horrible udder. There are so many nigerians available now...it would be way quicker and smarter to just move these goats out and bring in something else or work with your better quality goats. I personally wouldn't waste the time. 

I also wouldn't ever keep a doe that filled with a lopsided udder on her FF. I'm not so sure that that couldn't be genetic. That's different than if a kid just nurses on one side.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Could of been a mild case of mastitis that you didnt even know about. Might do a milk strain test to see if you get any flakes. Could of been that she was precocious in the one side before she was breed and kidded.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

KW Farms said:


> If you only care about milk, then keep them. If you want to produce nice looking udders, then sell them. It takes a long time and many generations to get a doe with a decent udder by starting with one with a horrible udder. There are so many nigerians available now...it would be way quicker and smarter to just move these goats out and bring in something else or work with your better quality goats. I personally wouldn't waste the time.
> 
> I also wouldn't ever keep a doe that filled with a lopsided udder on her FF. I'm not so sure that that couldn't be genetic. That's different than if a kid just nurses on one side.


I think I am agreeing with you. I am also not convinced that it's not genetic. I am fairly new to breeding goats, but I bred and showed dogs for many years. 
I always told people buy the best you can afford, because in the long run it saves money and time than trying to breed up.
I guess I should follow my own advice.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Can you get a picture of it? We might be able to tell what it is better if we can see pictures.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

TDG-Farms said:


> Could of been a mild case of mastitis that you didnt even know about. Might do a milk strain test to see if you get any flakes. Could of been that she was precocious in the one side before she was breed and kidded.


I did test her for mastitis, even though I was positive it wasn't that. I just wanted to rule it out. 
I also had her since she was 8 weeks old, and she did not have a precocious udder. It just started to fill up lopsided about a month before she kidded.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Hum, that is odd then. With all other factors ruled out, just have to assume its a defective udder. Still not a genetic issue though.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Why couldn't it be genetic, Dave?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

There is no genetic recessive gene that causes deformed udders. Could be a product of inbreeding. It could be a mutation. But its not something that you would expect to see passed on.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

She wasn't inbred. I have all her pedigree papers. I purchased her and her half sister when they were babies. 
They were my first goats. They were registered, healthy, and came from a tested herd. That was about the only thing I knew to care about at the time.
I have since bought 4 more does from a different breeder when I knew enough to look for udder structure and confirmation.
So, I have 4 does that have wonderful looking udders. This mess of an udder, and her half sister that is getting ready to kid any time now. so far, her udder looks decent and even.

There are some really good quality's about these first two does. Their confirmation is actually pretty good. They are extremely worm resistant. Their coats are like silk, and their eye lids are always blood red. I have only wormed them once in the 1 1/2 I have owned them, and they didn't really need it. My other four need to be wormed all the time.
She is also a breeze to milk. She has large teats and huge orifices.

So, that is why I am a little torn of who to keep.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Can you get pictures or no? It would be a whole lot easier to help if we could see it with our own eyes.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow. I was going to do it this morning, but her baby decided she wanted to milk from her large side last night, and it didn't really show how lopsided it really is. I guess it will still show her udder structure though.


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, here are some pictures of her. They are not the best pictures, but it's the best I could get. You can see that even if her udder was even, it's still pretty bad. 
I included a few pictures of her baby too. Since, she is the one I am deciding whether to keep.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Can you reattached the photos? With the server issue the pictures are not showing up.


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## Sweetpea8 (Jun 6, 2013)

Could it be possible she has a staph mastitis? It can lie latent and doesn't always show up on testing, but it is very contagious , especially to daughters drinking the milk. I have a ff with an otherwise beautiful but slightly lopsided udder. She has never had a flare of mastitis, but her mother came down with staph mastitis shortly after they both freshened last summer. My main goal is milk for my family, so I got rid of the one who got the staph badly, and kept thelopsided ff, and I give her garlic everyday and started her and her daughter on the Lysigin shot. If I run out of minced garlic for a week, her milk does get little flakes in it, but doesn't doesn't fail the Dawn test for mastitis. That's just my experience, in case it's helpful


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## ak_sundog (Mar 19, 2013)

The "right" answer to this question is pretty subjective, and based on questions that only you can answer -- do you have the space, time, patience and money to invest in raising this doe kid to see how she turns out? If so, I would do it. Best case, your buck improves the udder without compromising production -- not only you end up with a nice milker, you've also hung some credentials on your boy by proving (at least in one example) what he's capable of working with. Worst case, if she has a lousy udder after kidding, you can sell that whole lineage and move on to work with other bloodlines. Either way, you've learned something of your buck's strengths and weaknesses, useful knowledge in planning future breedings.

After looking at the pics -- it looks like her worst problem isn't the lopsidedness of her udder, but the fact that it's pendulous and tilted forward due to a weak medial suspensory ligament. Gently pinch a fold of skin at the back/top of her udder and pull upward until the teats are close to plumb, that would give you a view of what a good medial suspensory ligament would do. Not the udder you'd want to breed for. But the right buck can do wonders for a poor udder. Good luck!


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Okay, here they are again.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Is the sire to the kid from a long line of does with strong rear attachment?


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## armortrails (Jan 8, 2014)

Yes, he is from the Rosasharn line, and all the does have great attachments.


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