# Hi from Australia



## Miss Norris

We've owned various cross-bred goats for years to control the scrub and help reduce the bush fire risk where we live, but we decided to breed seriously and started our own breeding program last year. We currently have 22 full blood Boers and have just finished kidding for the season. By necessity we take our water conservation very seriously as we rely on rainwater tanks for household use, and dam water for the goats in the paddocks. Our part of NSW has been in severe drought for some years and our dams are now drying up. We are starting to truck water in from the nearest town for the animals. Luckily our local council is supportive of rural residents and provides free water to farmers to support their livestock, but many hardened farmers are having to destock because conditions are so harsh. We will continue to raise our goats for as long as we can support them.


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## GoofyGoat

Welcome to the Goat Spot!
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with a horrible drought. That's rough. Hopefully it'll ease up for you soon as your seasons change. 
We'd love to see pictures of your herd when you get a chance.


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## MadCatX

YAY an Aussie awesome


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## KST Goat Farm

Welcome!


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## SalteyLove

Welcome to the forum


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## ksalvagno

Welcome to TGS!


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## ReNat

:hi:


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## Trollmor

Hurrah!! One from so far away!  And I will also appreciate your photos if you have leisure.  But oh, how awful to hear about your desert conditions! For how long will the town be able to support you with water?


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## ReNat

Australians need to drill a well.

The great Artesian Basin is an underground reservoir of fresh water located on the Australian mainland and is the second largest in the world after the West Siberian artesian basin in Rоssia. In fact, it is the only reliable source of fresh water in the interior of Australia. The total area of the basin is 1711 thousand km2, occupying almost 23 % of the mainland (most of Queensland, the South-Eastern part of the Northern territory, the North-Eastern part of South Australia and the Northern part of New South Wales). The depth of the basin is about 3000 m, and the total volume of water-64 900 km3


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## Miss Norris

Thank you for your welcoming replies.

Here are pics of some of my little herd

Ginger, Snowflake (Does in background), Millie, Milo, Flash, Elsa, Biscuit, and Bonnie. Taken this morning.








Casper the Main Man who finally did the business and impregnated all our girls, including 10 year old Snowflake who is Queen of the Girl Paddock. We'd previously owned Casper's father who was a Grand Champion.









Rose, Cinnamon, Honey, and Bess.









Milo and Millie - our last kids of the season and surviving two or triplets. This was taken a month ago. Milo is bottle fed because his mum (Snowflake) couldn't make enough milk and turned him away after a couple of days. She still feeds Millie now and then, but she's at the end of her breeding life now. We're thinking of keeping Milo for breeding as Snowflake was an AI baby from imported South African genetics and it will be good to get some of that hardiness into our herd. Thinking of showing Milo and Honey (brown faced above) at our next annual show in March 2020.


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## Miss Norris

Trollmor said:


> Hurrah!! One from so far away!  And I will also appreciate your photos if you have leisure.  But oh, how awful to hear about your desert conditions! For how long will the town be able to support you with water?


Photos posted on this thread now.

Council reconfirmed yesterday that they will be able to continue to support rural farmers with free water for livestock for the foreseeable future. The short term is not so bad - longer term is problematic because the underground water tables are drying up without replenishing.


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## Trollmor

ReNat said:


> Australians need to drill a well.
> 
> The great Artesian Basin is an underground reservoir of fresh water located on the Australian mainland and is the second largest in the world after the West Siberian artesian basin in Rоssia. In fact, it is the only reliable source of fresh water in the interior of Australia. The total area of the basin is 1711 thousand km2, occupying almost 23 % of the mainland (most of Queensland, the South-Eastern part of the Northern territory, the North-Eastern part of South Australia and the Northern part of New South Wales). The depth of the basin is about 3000 m, and the total volume of water-64 900 km3


But ... Does it get water from somewhere, or is it a finite resource?

@Miss Norris Very nice names!  Milo seems to be a social being.

So, we all wish for some nice soft rain over your land! Thank you for sharing!


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## Miss Norris

We have a large rainwater catchment that services a reservoir/dam for the town. It hasn't been filling for some time now. We can also draw on what used to be a major river, but it is the lowest it's been for many years. It is a finite resource, and if the reservoir dries up, there will be water trucks trekking west from Sydney desalination plant to keep us going. 

Glad you like the names and you are right Milo is incredibly social, sometimes to his detriment and needs reminding he has a goaty herd, besides his humans.


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## Trollmor

Oh! Are you awake at this time of the day? Here it is noon, so it should be dark in your country!


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## Miss Norris

Indeed - it's night time, just going on 10pm Thursday.


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## Trollmor

Sleep well!  We have Thursday here also.


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## Miss Norris

I will - you stay warm in Sweden!


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## Trollmor

Thanks! No fear, just below 0°C here, no snow. And we have plenty of water again, after this year's rains.


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## ReNat

I've heard that wild goats in Australia are a big problem for farmers. I wonder how feral goats survive in Australia, where they find a watering hole?


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## toth boer goats

Nice goaties, Welcome.


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## Miss Norris

ReNat said:


> I've heard that wild goats in Australia are a big problem for farmers. I wonder how feral goats survive in Australia, where they find a watering hole?


Feral goats are a problem - I've spotted some in a neighbouring property. We have to make sure our fences are in good condition if we don't want our herd to mix. Weekend hunters will shoot them and wild boar which are also a problem. Further west of us it's lucrative to round the ferals up and sell for meat. Goodness knows how people manage that. There is a new name for them and they are now referred to as Rangeland goats. I gather they are extremely hardy and can probably survive longer without much water than more domesticated breeds. We also have a severe problem with wild dogs who have been known to decimate large herds of sheep in a night. I had some goats taken a few years back, but nothing recently - fingers crossed.


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## Miss Norris

Thank you - I was admiring your beautiful painted Boers.


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## GoofyGoat

Beautiful herd! It's great news that they're making arrangements to keep y'all in water. When our well went out we had to haul water for a month and it was quite the chore. So, I have a glimpse of what you're dealing with and it's no fun. Thanks for sharing the pictures. 
With it being so dry do you have parasite problems? I was curious what challenges y'all face besides predators in the never never, or are you not that far inland?


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## Trollmor

Those feral goats sound interesting, if we want a breed well adapted to the place. (One of my favourite things!) Is it legal to catch them for making a herd?


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## Miss Norris

Trollmor said:


> Those feral goats sound interesting, if we want a breed well adapted to the place. (One of my favourite things!) Is it legal to catch them for making a herd?


Yes it's considered totally legal because they are otherwise considered pests. Roaming free they impact on the land and native animals and are a threat to crop farming. However, once you start herding them eg moving them around between properties or sending to slaughter they come under the same controls we have for stock identification and stock movement etc. The ones I've seen tend to have magnificent horns - very wild and natural.


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## Miss Norris

GoofyGoat said:


> Beautiful herd! It's great news that they're making arrangements to keep y'all in water. When our well went out we had to haul water for a month and it was quite the chore. So, I have a glimpse of what you're dealing with and it's no fun. Thanks for sharing the pictures.
> With it being so dry do you have parasite problems? I was curious what challenges y'all face besides predators in the never never, or are you not that far inland?


We are about 5 hours drive inland from Sydney - and have lots of different predators. I lost one of twin kids a few years back when I turned my back on him only to see a wedge-tailed eagle carrying him off... Goanna's will also take kids - they hide high up in the trees and move swiftly to give a very dirty bite. Kangaroos will also get territorial under some conditions and we've lost 2 does who were chased into one of our dams and drowned. Goats will apparently survive snake bite, but I wouldn't want to put it to the test!

We can also have problems with parasites - but we drench regularly.

Our biggest problem at the moment is excessive hoof growth. The ground has become soft and dusty so they're not wearing down naturally on rocks so much, and after kidding the only way I've been able to keep their weight up is to keep them happy in lucerne hay.


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## Trollmor

So, you sent me out on the net to search for goanna! What animals there are on this earth! And I learnt a little bit about Dream Time, too, always nice to learn!

Kangaroos - I have often wondered why nobody seems to have bred them, being very adapted to the climate. Here, stags are farmed, even if it is not a big industry. (Which is of course good, big industries are seldom friendly to animals, employees, or environment.)


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## Miss Norris

Kangaroos are a protected species here (no surprise), but locally there is a cull every year when numbers get too high. We have large mobs of them living naturally alongside our goats and, despite the lack of natural food for them at the moment, they scavenge lucerne scraps and seem quite content. They are usually quite timid, apart from the males who can be terrifying. If you are partial to carnivorous habits, kangaroo meat is lean and dark, but it's taken a long time to have it available mainstream. Tastewise the closest I can liken it to is a cross between lamb and reindeer meat. The problem for anyone wanting to breed them is containment and space. Adult roos will easily clear a 10' fence. It is not uncommon, especially at night to see upwards of 20 of them on the roads around us and they have not adapted to fear the car. In the quiet early mornings, we will often have a mother or two and their joeys in our yard close to the house.


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## GoofyGoat

I have a friend outside of Queensland, she was telling me about the Kangaroos having no fear of vehicles and at times it was like driving an obstacle course. I know Goanna's are big (lizard wise) but never considered they'd be a threat to goats. Is it the bacteria in their mouths that's the problem? I never nought they were venomous. 
Thanks for the insight, I love learning about different places and what challenges they have.


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## Trollmor

That jumping ability sounds difficult for a breeder, but not impossible. But if they are impossible to make friends with, then of course it is a problem. Thanks for the info!  Concerning that taste, it sounds not so far from the taste of goat meat.


GoofyGoat said:


> I love learning about different places.


So do I!


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## Trollmor

Since last time have I heard about bad bush fires in New South Wales. Keep safe!!!


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Miss Norris

GoofyGoat said:


> I have a friend outside of Queensland, she was telling me about the Kangaroos having no fear of vehicles and at times it was like driving an obstacle course. I know Goanna's are big (lizard wise) but never considered they'd be a threat to goats. Is it the bacteria in their mouths that's the problem? I never nought they were venomous.
> Thanks for the insight, I love learning about different places and what challenges they have.


I believe it is the bacteria - I don't know why, but infection is fast, severe and often fatal.


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## Miss Norris

Trollmor said:


> That jumping ability sounds difficult for a breeder, but not impossible. But if they are impossible to make friends with, then of course it is a problem. Thanks for the info!  Concerning that taste, it sounds not so far from the taste of goat meat.
> So do I!


Not entirely impossible to befriend. My neighbour feeds them - the local mob is especially friendly with him


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## Miss Norris

Trollmor said:


> Since last time have I heard about bad bush fires in New South Wales. Keep safe!!!


We are lucky that we are not in the area of the fires which are currently up on the north coast of NSW. The wind has been blowing the smoke easterly out to sea, so no effect out here. Very dire and sad indeed, and it is set to worsen over the next couple of days especially around Sydney - which is a bit alarming. Our local volunteer fire service is away helping on the fireground.


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## toth boer goats

:hug:


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## Trollmor

Still more frightening reports from New South Wales, like "84 fires going" ... KEEP SAFE!


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## toth boer goats

Stay safe, very scary stuff.


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## Miss Norris

Thank you for your kind thoughts. We're safe and some distance away from the nearest fire front, but everyone knows someone who is directly impacted unfortunately. We're watching conditions closely in case there's a change in wind direction. The fires seem relentless and many houses lost were apparently already kitted out with their own rooftop sprinkler systems, but these have been no match for this type of horror fire. One fire alone has a perimeter of 1000 kms. Conditions have eased a little overnight, but are expected to worsen again over Friday and the weekend.
:upset:


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## camooweal

<<<The problem for anyone wanting to breed them is containment and space. Adult roos will easily clear a 10' fence.>>>

We once worked on a 4000 acre sheep property and when the property alongside came on the market, it was bought by a Pitt Street farmer. The first thing he was going to do was build a big shed in one of his paddocks then get everyone from miles around help him muster all the 'roos on his place, into the shed !!! The shed never left the drawing board but it gave many a good laugh.

There's a little mob of four to six 'roos come and visit now and again. They and the goats just keep an eye on each other when they're in the same paddock - they only stay for a week or so then go again. There's also a wallaby visits sometimes. There's a hayrack out in the paddock for the Nubians so perhaps the 'roos and wallaby help themselves to some hay as well.

We're on the Southern Tablelands and have 16 Anglo Nubians; they're not registered and are just an interest but the cost of hay these days makes life "interesting" !! The hayshed is full plus we've got a ton of pellets and a ton of hay cubes so the Nubians should be right for feed for a while. There's two does to kid next month and all being well, we'll have goat's milk in the fridge again - which will be so much better than the "milk" you can buy in town.


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## Miss Norris

Lovely to hear from a fellow Aussie.
We're on the Central Tablelands so our droughty situations must be similar. We have a lot of roos and wallabies, plus emu and wild boar. The roos take their share of of the hay, but not a lot I can do about that.

I've been 'banking' hay for a year or so now and our shed is full too. It's impossible to get lucerne cubes any longer from our local suppliers, but we make good use of the fallen loose hay from the shed floor, and our hay supplier lays out a tarp to catch anything when he delivers and unloads bales for us. I admit to feeding the best equine quality lucerne, but have also started on some teff recently. 

We're currently paying $22 per bale and $18.50 respectively from a great supplier based in Forbes - this is almost half the price my local town suppliers were asking last summer. Our kids from the last drop are now almost fully weaned and are going through hay like locusts. 

Did you get snow last week?


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## camooweal

That's good prices for your hay. We've been paying $33 to $35 for small bales of lucerne and $22 to $28 for small bales of pasture hay. In the big bales, the lucerne 8x4x3 is $400, pasture hay 8x3x3 around $350 and 8x3x4 of vetch/pea hay $380 to $400. Small bales of same around $25. We got a bale of teff hay about a year ago for my pet bunnies originally but they wouldn't have a bar of it. Tried it on the Nubians next who didn't want to know about it so the old cow (22 years old) was the next 'victim' and she turned her nose up as well. 

The goats love the vetch hay which is fed mixed in with pasture hay - they always clean up the vetch first before moving on to the other. 

And no, we didn't get any snow last week.


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## Miss Norris

I am mixing my teff with the lucerne. Goats are supposed to love it (I'm told) but mine turn their noses up at it if it's offered on its own. After picking out all the lucerne the teff is usually gone by next morning. I have another 29 bales to use up... Vetch is available only rarely but I'll keep an eye out. Mine seem to leave a lot of waste which I rake up and use for bedding, but I now use plastic kiddy wading pools secured to the fence posts, and this seems to avoid a lot of wastage.

If you do need hay, my supplier is Nu-Walla Contracting - really nice reliable people and they charge $1 per bale for unloading and stacking in the shed (a huge job which I couldn't handle) but they do insist on a minimum order of 60 bales.


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## camooweal

Thanks for the info on Nu-Walla - a $1 a bale unloaded and stacked sounds good! Could have used them back in the 1979-1984 drought when a semi-trailer loaded with 500 bales would arrive. The truckie would throw the bales down and we'd have to get them out of the way and stacked up asap!

We've got a couple of old wading pools about the place and hubby said he'd try this on the Nubians. Waste is such a problem with goats and hay and he's forever trying to come up with an idea for a hayrack that reduces waste to the absolute minimum.

Re lucerne cubes, hubby just rang the feed store we mainly use - Fife's Stock Feeds in Goulburn - and they said they have a good amount of these cubes at the moment ($33 for a 20k bag) and they've got some compressed lucerne bales for $24. Send an email to [email protected] if you'd like to contact us off-group...


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## Miss Norris

Waste really is a problem especially when prices are high. We have so little nutrients in the soil here that I reconcile myself that it's at least doing some good putting some nitrogen back in, and the spent hay gives me somewhere to hide grass or barley seed from the birds.

There are some interesting hay feeder ideas around using old IBCs that I would love to try - like this one below. We can sometimes find IBCs around the outskirts of Sydney for less than $50 which is much cheaper than buying something from the ag shop. This will be the next project on our long list...

Thanks for the info on the lucerne cubes. I don't use them much, but my horsey neighbours go through them quickly. I found an alternative which is probably a wee bit off-label for our kids to get them started on solids - Natty Kat kitty litter, but the small size of the pellets are easier for them to handle anyway.

Our first herd of cross-breds came from down Goulburn way, and I have many Monaro pioneer rels buried all around there


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## camooweal

Thanks for the photo and as it turns out, we've got four of these already in use as hay racks for the Nubians, but not like that set-up. The top of our rack is covered as in that photo but the frame is stuffed full of hay. The goats can get a good part of their head in and reach the hay, but the thing needs rolling over to get the hay to the outside again when the goats have eaten all the hay within reach. Hope that makes sense! The frame has reduced wastage to some degree though.

Hubby very taken with that idea and will more than likely make one up like that. We have a couple of spares but they're on 'bushfire standby' at the moment and full of water.

The pasture hay cubes are all different sizes and I break down the bigger ones into 'goat mouth' size. Maybe the Nubians _could_ handle the larger cubes but I don't want a choking Nubian to find out !!


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## Trollmor

@Miss Norris We all wish for rain and no wind!


Miss Norris said:


> Lovely to hear from a fellow Aussie.





Miss Norris said:


> We're on the Central Tablelands so our droughty situations must be similar. We have a lot of roos and wallabies, plus emu and *wild boar*.


Oh, oh! Those are a nuisance, even here.
*must do chores, read more later*


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## Trollmor

camooweal said:


> The goats love the vetch hay


I should think so! 

@Miss Norris and @camooweal: When you speak about hay prices, I am often at a loss concerning the size of your bales. Here, we buy hay per kg.

Somewhere on this forum there is a thread about hayracks. Personally, I want to warn against all kinds of V-shaped holes, that _could_ catch a goat-head.


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## ReNat

I use hay bags that I make myself. These feeders are mobile and economical.


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## toth boer goats

Be careful, they can get their horns caught and hang themselves.


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## camooweal

Trollmor said <<<When you speak about hay prices, I am often at a loss concerning the size of your bales. Here, we buy hay per kg.>>>

OK, so where I said in the big bales, lucerne 8x4x3 is $400, that translates to eight feet by four feet by three feet and $400 per bale.


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## Trollmor

toth boer goats said:


> Be careful, they can get their horns caught and hang themselves.


Yes, that has happened, horns or no horns.


camooweal said:


> Trollmor said <<<When you speak about hay prices, I am often at a loss concerning the size of your bales. Here, we buy hay per kg.>>>
> 
> OK, so where I said in the big bales, lucerne 8x4x3 is $400, that translates to eight feet by four feet by three feet and $400 per bale.


And all of a sudden the metric conversion does not work any more!  8 feet ≈ 260 cm, times 4 feet ≈ 120 cm, no this simply is over my capacity today!

But 400 dollars is much for one bale, you mean 40$, don't you?


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## camooweal

<<<And all of a sudden the metric conversion does not work any more!  8 feet ≈ 260 cm, times 4 feet ≈ 120 cm, no this simply is over my capacity today!>>>

Feed stores still use the old measurement when it comes to bale size. In metric, 8x4x3 works out to 2.4 metres by 1.2 metres by 90 centimetres - according to our tape measure!

<<<But 400 dollars is much for one bale, you mean 40$, don't you?>>>

No, definitely $400. A bale that size, 8x4x3, depending on what kind of hay it is, is the equivalent of 20 to 25 small bales which would work out at around $500 so therefore, on a per kg basis, that makes it about 20% cheaper for the big bale. Another way of buying hay is 21 small bales tied up in a package. This way is slightly cheaper than buying 21 bales loose simply because they're not manhandled individually but handled with a forklift.

The other thing that influences the price is availability. Due to the extensive drought, hay is coming in from interstate so there's a fuel cost involved in carting hay hundreds and hundreds of km's. The hay we're currently buying is coming from 1000 km away ... or 620 miles.

Hope that helps you out, Trollmor ...


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## Trollmor

Could we guess, then, at a price around 2 dollars per kg? Ow, that is rather much!

But of course, hay will be expensive when the weather conditions make harvesting difficult - if too much rain, or too little.

1000 km, that is not exactly "just around the corner" ...

Thank you for explaining to a foreigner!


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## Miss Norris

[The other thing that influences the price is availability. Due to the extensive drought, hay is coming in from interstate so there's a fuel cost involved in carting hay hundreds and hundreds of km's. The hay we're currently buying is coming from 1000 km away ... or 620 miles.]

I was unaware until recently that Oz is a major _exporter_ of lucerne.
The overseas market is more lucrative than supplying domestically it seems (embarrassed)


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## Trollmor

Thank you for sharing! Since you typed this, there have been several bad reports from your area. Keep safe!


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## camooweal

<<<I was unaware until recently that Oz is a major _exporter_ of lucerne.
The overseas market is more lucrative than supplying domestically it seems (embarrassed)>>>

I read of this earlier in the year and without getting all fired up, shall just say it would be nice to look after your own first ...


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## Trollmor

Thinking of you every time the news report from the fires. Keep safe!!


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## camooweal

<<<Thinking of you every time the news report from the fires. Keep safe!!>>>

Thanks for your thoughts, Trollmor and in our particular case, we're in the southern half of the state where there's fires around but not too close (yet!), the very worst are up north. We've got an area set-up for the goats to go into if need be. It's enclosed so there'll be no jumping out and while they'll be able to hear the activity of tankers etc, they won't see anything. One of the yearling triplets took fright at something the other day (she's somewhat flighty normally) and cleared a five foot fence with ease. I'd love to have half of her energy!!!
I hope you're not too cold over there in Sweden but it's what we all get used to isn't it. I hate the cold weather and am glad to be here in Oz where we have two summers each year!


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)(thumbup)


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## Trollmor

Haha, I think I prefer our climate!  Have thought of visiting your continent, especially the famous Uluru and the Great Barrier Reef, but understood that I would not endure the kind of weather you have there ...

And, no, we do not have cold here, it rains!


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## Trollmor

So, cool new year ... We all hope your goats are not among those trying to escape the flames by going onto the sea ...


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## Feira426

Just found this thread and read through everything. How is the fire situation? That’s so scary!


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## Steampunked

The fire situation is unpleasant (speaking personally). I worked for a decade for our Bureau of Meteorology, and what is currently occurring is without precedent. The air is baked with flammable oils. On hot days, gum trees can turn to nothing more than flame the whole way up. They can throw fireballs many kilometres forward of the fire-front, and the weather created by the fires can also cause tornadoes of flame.

Friends of mine have very graciously offered the use of their paddocks should we need to evacuate here. It's extremely kind and generous. I've had to stay home from my work in the city in Melbourne on a few days to be ready to evacuate the animals. And I am in one of the 'safe' zones.


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## Feira426

Steampunked said:


> The fire situation is unpleasant (speaking personally). I worked for a decade for our Bureau of Meteorology, and what is currently occurring is without precedent. The air is baked with flammable oils. On hot days, gum trees can turn to nothing more than flame the whole way up. They can throw fireballs many kilometres forward of the fire-front, and the weather created by the fires can also cause tornadoes of flame.
> 
> Friends of mine have very graciously offered the use of their paddocks should we need to evacuate here. It's extremely kind and generous. I've had to stay home from my work in the city in Melbourne on a few days to be ready to evacuate the animals. And I am in one of the 'safe' zones.


Goodness! Regular tornados are scary enough. I hope it all calms down soon and you are safe again.


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## toth boer goats

Stay safe, the fire is horrible, hope it gets under control soon. 
Prayers sent. :hug:


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## luvmyherd

I just found this thread as well. I hope everyone from Australia is still safe. I will be following.


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## Trollmor

Thinking of you every time the news report on those fires... Maps with the entire New South Wales on fire. Glacier GREY in New Zealand - I think I do not want to know what the sea is like between those places. With the famous Barrier Reef and all ...

Not to speak of what it is near the flames.

Here they say that in earlier times, the Aborigines collected burnable material and set it on controlled fire. I guess you have also heard of it.


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## Trollmor

How are things?


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## Miss Norris

A little too interesting for my liking. How's Sweden?
I dropped off for a few months - had to visit family in France and stayed until a couple of weeks before lockdown.
But at least I brought back some of their rain with me to Oz.
We have water in our large dam for the first time in years - not quite full yet, but no longer the crusty base as my profile pic.
Goaties are all good.
How are you managing?


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## Moers kiko boars

So glad ypu have water. Your girls look really nice in your pics. Loved the 2 little ones. I pray you and your family are healthy and safe.


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## Trollmor

Thanks for answering, and thanks for asking!   I have been wondering about you and your goats!

Here we are all right except for the Corona and the climate changes, which make spring flowers and migrating birds come earlier and earlier. No winter snow at all this year. I really miss country skiing, which I used to do each winter when I grew up.


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