# Have I made a HUGE mistake?



## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

My doe is due to kid any day now. In the middle of April I started giving her grain. I read that I should start a month before her kidding date to get her use to the milking stand and being handled. Anyways. She has gotten a pound of grain every night for almost 2 months (her first possible due date was 5/18) She has only ever had one kid. Well she looks bigger that a house and I'm entertaining the possibility of triplets with how big she is. I have read a bunch on here about the newbie mistake of overfeeding. Do you think I have? I'm afraid the kid(s) are going to be to big for her to deliver. Is there anything I can do to reverse this? Should I stop giving her grain? 

Here's a pic of her this was taken over a week ago


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I am in the same boat. Hopefully someone with experience will chime in.


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## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

janeen128 said:


> I am in the same boat. Hopefully someone with experience will chime in.


Is your doe preggo also?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would not make any huge changes at this point, you can cut grain very slightly but not a lot..Just be there in case she needs your help....keep Propolyn Glycol...and a calcium drenth handy in case she needs it...keep her active in the mean time...she is a cute girl


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

She doesn't look overweight so you have probably been feeding her the right amount. I agree with Happybleats and to not make any BIG changes. Things will probably be fine but try to be there just in case.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would not cut it out totaly, yep maybe cut it back, but she looks sweet as ever. Now if she has more then one that is what you want, that way one is not so big. Twins or triplets, they are going to be smaller.

I would make sure you have LOTS of OB lube and gloves just incase you have to hep with the delivery. The biggest mistake people so with helping in the delivery is not using enough lube. If you think you have enough put twice as much. (Words from a great vet).

Your hand should go in very easy and no friction t slow it down, that is what tears the doe.


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## goat_shower_4-H (Jun 2, 2013)

We feed a little bit of feed to our does day and night. They always have a free choice option. Throw some alfalfa pellets in there. It will make them milk more. It does not matter if they are tame or not during labor. We have had crazy does that we haven't touched before. They don't care who you are. All they know is that they want the kid outa there!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Nah...she looks fine. You shouldn't have any problems.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Milk_Maid_5 said:


> Is your doe preggo also?


Yep. I was expecting kids in April, but nothing. Posted pics here around 5/17 I think, I got a resounding "yes" she's pregnant. Sunday my herd gets tested for CAE and a pregnancy test comes with it. She has to be getting close.... I'm certain she is, but not so certain about her sister. She's getting bigger too though. Your doe is a little smaller then mine, but she puffs out like that too


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

I actually grain early in pregnancy then stop mid-way through, giving just the slightest of handfuls with some minerals and supplements from about 2 months until delivery. My first time around i increased grain at the end and had mammoth singles that were just huge. I had to pull one (malpositioned and big) and do some repositioning to get huge shoulders through on another, but it wasn't too bad and moms and babies made it through ok with ill effects at all, but I won;t increase grain at the end anymore. since i started cutting grain but increasing supplements and minerals for the last few months the babies have been smaller but more alert and active at birth.

I am sure she will be fine but i would keep a close eye on her and try to be there when she delivers just in case she has a big single. Chances are she is just wide because there are several in there, lol.


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## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

So what should I do for my other doe that is due from 6/23-7/14? She's a FF. I just got her less than a week ago. She's a pure Alpine and not underweight like Jaz was when I got her. Should I not even start her on grain? What type of minerals and supplements? How much and how often? Thanks


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

since she is due fairly soon and in good condition I wouldnt change her feeding either...If you feel she is loosing condition adding grain in small amounts wont hurt...1/2 cup at a time..after a week add another 1/2 cup...and so forth...slow is the key
for minerals...choose a dark loose mineral...if you can find it for goats, even better but onyx cow loose minerals is a good choice..


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

happybleats said:


> since she is due fairly soon and in good condition I wouldnt change her feeding either...If you feel she is loosing condition adding grain in small amounts wont hurt...1/2 cup at a time..after a week add another 1/2 cup...and so forth...slow is the key
> for minerals...choose a dark loose mineral...if you can find it for goats, even better but onyx cow loose minerals is a good choice..


happybleats said it for me, lol. i use a mineral called sweetlix milkmaker I think... i add in a few things specific for the doe (one tends to develop iodine deficiencies, the other always needs copper, etc) and a bit of molasses to make it stick to the tiny bit of feed and encourage the doe to eat it if she isn't a robust eater (not a problem i usually have my does, lol). otherwise I just put out the mineral and let her nibble it as she likes.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

If she only ever singles you could have a problem with that much grain actually. 

I have a itty bitty doe that is about 110 pounds +/- and she only ever singles. Well this year I thought she had twins in there. Nope, just a HUGE buckling. She NEVER gets grain when pregnant because of this. 
He was so big we almost couldnt get him out. I had to get my brother to pull him out, I couldn't do it. It took over 5 minutes to pull him. He was stuck at the nose!
When we weighed him he was 14lbs. That is HUGE for an alpine baby. He was more than half her height by 6 weeks old, and he was about 35lbs by then.

There is nothing you can do at this point, other than cut back on her grain. Cutting back on her grain won't hurt her, just increasing too fast will.

This year I am giving her some ovulation hormones to stop this giant buckling nonsense. She's done this to me 3 times!


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## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> If she only ever singles you could have a problem with that much grain actually.
> 
> I have a itty bitty doe that is about 110 pounds +/- and she only ever singles. Well this year I thought she had twins in there. Nope, just a HUGE buckling. She NEVER gets grain when pregnant because of this.
> He was so big we almost couldnt get him out. I had to get my brother to pull him out, I couldn't do it. It took over 5 minutes to pull him. He was stuck at the nose!
> ...


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## precious (May 18, 2013)

I thought the minerals and backing soda is always out so the goats could get it whenever. I am young raising goats. Only have had for little over a year.


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## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

Precious, I've been raising goats since February 2013. I always leave the mineral block out. I've seen people mention baking soda. We're not talking the Arm & Hammer stuff I use in my freezer to help with odors right?


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

Alfafa causes milk fever in ruminents. So if you are feeding her that cut it out. Otherwise she doesnt look too fat just pregnant.


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## precious (May 18, 2013)

Hi. Actually that is all I could find. I purchased the largest box they carry. What kind of mineral block do you use? When we started last February we were only going to have a total of 6 goats. By the end of the year we had 11 does and 6 bucks. This year we currently have 25 goats with 1 or possibly 2 left to kid. After the first few goats we became addicted. 

Thank w


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

enchantedgoats said:


> Alfafa causes milk fever in ruminents. So if you are feeding her that cut it out. Otherwise she doesnt look too fat just pregnant.


Not sure where this info came from, but I question it's validity. Most of us feed alfalfa to our dairy goats. Mine get only alfalfa during spring/summer/fall. I add some grass hay for volume in the winter, when forage is minimal to nonexistent. For dairy, you need protein levels higher than standard hay provides. Grain helps, but by itself you'd have to feed a lot to get the overall protein level up high enough for good milk production. I'm sure there's a few that dont feed alfalfa (probably more due to cost or availability), but the vast majority with dairy goats do. Only problem I've read about it on here is the potential for urinary issues in wethers.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I too question that. I've had goats for over 20 years and have.always fed.my goats, alfalfa, oat hay, grass hay etc. And I have never had a problem like that. Almost everyone on here will recommend that you feed alfalfa to goats.
Goat judges recommend it even, and to be a judge you must show that you have excessive knowledge on goats. They would not tell you to do something that would potentially hurt them.

And if you can get alfalfa hay, you'd feed pellets with the grain.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

enchantedgoats said:


> Alfafa causes milk fever in ruminents. So if you are feeding her that cut it out. Otherwise she doesnt look too fat just pregnant.


I'm not sure where this information came from either. If anything alfalfa can help PREVENT milk fever since it is high in calcium and milk fever is from a drop in calcium levels especially after kidding. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Milk fever is a misnomer. It is not a fever, and doesn't always have to do with milk production. It is actually low blood calcium, which is known as hypocalcaemia. The goat may have plenty of calcium in her bones and in the diet, but due to a sudden increase in calcium and phosphorus requirements (due to impending kidding or lactation) she is unable to reabsorb the calcium she needs from her bones or absorb it from her diet.
It is important to note that hypocalcaemia is not only relative in immediate pre/post kidding situations. Many people think it can happen only to heavy milkers right before or right after kidding. This is not the case. Milk fever runs in heavy milk lines, but the doe dose not have to be in heavy milk, or milking at all, to come down with milk fever.

*Signs:*
The doe seems weak.
Decrease in appetite
Mild bloat or constipation
The doe is wobbly on her feet.
Inability to stand.
Muscular trembling.
Weakened uterine contractions
Decreased body temperature.
The doe may stop ruminating, urinating or defecating.
Shivering after milking

*Prevention:*

Exercise & proper nutrition.
Offer a good loose mineral mix with 2:1 calcium phosphorous at all times.
Feed 5-6 Tums to the doe each day, starting two weeks before kidding and continuing after freshening.
Feed more alfalfa, which contains a lot of calcium.
Add some calcium citrate powder, or other human calcium suppliments to her daily grain ration.
Be aware that if a doe shivers after milking, this could be a sign that she needs more calcium.
*Treatment:*
A vet may give 50 to 100 ml of 25% calcium borogluconate intravenously, but this is very dangerous for inexperienced goat keepers and death can result.
*Calcium Gluconate 23% Solution: *8 to 12 oz. given orally. Repeat 5-8 oz, three times a day until the doe is eating and symptoms are subsiding. 
or
*Calcium Gluconate **23% Solution**:* 40 cc injected over her ribs. The injections should be broken down into 3 or 4 injections and given in different sites. The injections should be given *slowly*. 
If the doe is lying on her side, prop her up with a bale of hay so that she is laying on her breastbone (normally). This prevents rumen fluid from entering her lungs and prevents bloat from developing
If you are milking the doe, do not take too much milk for the next few milkings

Still: You were pretty much right on the money


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Milk fever is a misnomer. It is not a fever, and doesn't always have to do with milk production. It is actually low blood calcium, which is known as hypocalcaemia. The goat may have plenty of calcium in her bones and in the diet, but due to a sudden increase in calcium and phosphorus requirements (due to impending kidding or lactation) she is unable to reabsorb the calcium she needs from her bones or absorb it from her diet.
> It is important to note that hypocalcaemia is not only relative in immediate pre/post kidding situations. Many people think it can happen only to heavy milkers right before or right after kidding. This is not the case. Milk fever runs in heavy milk lines, but the doe dose not have to be in heavy milk, or milking at all, to come down with milk fever.
> 
> Signs:
> ...


Thank you! Mine was the brief version LOL!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Haha, well your's wasn't thorough enough! lol!


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> Haha, well your's wasn't thorough enough! lol!


Lol!!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I grain my goats year round. My pregnant, dry does get about 4 pounds of concentrates and alfalfa pellets mixed a day. I have never had a problem with the kids getting too big to be born or the does getting too fat. If I see fat, I cut them back a little. Never had a problem with milk fever or ketosis/pregnancy toxemia.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

That is amazing you've never had a problem. My does kid monster babies without ANY grain. When I first got into goats (over 20 years ago), I gave them about 1lb of grain a day while they were pregnant, EVERY SINGLE kid had to be pulled, they were huge, tore a couple does, and I only bought does that had kidded before.

I never grain until they have kidded or if they need a bit extra weight I will grain them 1 month before.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

lottsagoats said:


> I grain my goats year round. My pregnant, dry does get about 4 pounds of concentrates and alfalfa pellets mixed a day. I have never had a problem with the kids getting too big to be born or the does getting too fat. If I see fat, I cut them back a little. Never had a problem with milk fever or ketosis/pregnancy toxemia.


I do the same and haven't had any problems either.....knock on wood!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, both of you are seriously lucky then! Are your does very big or small? I noticed that the smaller does have the biggest kids and the bigger does have average to smaller kids.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I am current feeding 2 cups am and 2 cups pm. I feed the Noble Goat, and some sweet grain occasionally. 2 are Nubian/Lamancha mix and the other is a kinder. I feed the same to my kinder in milk. Is this too much? All 3 could be expecting, I believe 2 are for sure. CAE testing comes Sunday after church, as well as a pregnancy test, so I will know for sure


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Last year when Hay cost as much as alfalfa we fed staight alfalfa...we had mostly triplets...no birthing issues to speak of and everyone had enough milk, energy and babies we all very good size...even as triplets.... then the alfalfa got real dry and cruddy...UGH back to coastal..we still feed alfalfa but not free choice..and its coslty to get the good stuff but its a waste to feed the garbage IMO...we also feed alfalfa pellet with their grain ration on th table for milkers..


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

I do the same thing. All of my goats get grain year round. Not once (knocking on wood) have I ever had milk fever and I have never had to pull a kid.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I just cannot believe none of you have had kidding problems! Guess I have all the bad luck, Murphy's my maiden name.... AND I have happened to break 4 mirrors withing 6 years.... Oh I am so clumsy...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I just cannot believe none of you have had kidding problems! Guess I have all the bad luck, Murphy's my maiden name.... AND I have happened to break 4 mirrors withing 6 years.... Oh I am so clumsy...


I have to pull kids every year...if that helps you feel better..you are not alone lol...Mostly the Saanen...Amos has large genetics..he is large but his mom is larger lol..


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Milk_Maid_5 said:


> Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:
> 
> 
> > And something else this is my first time around a pregnant goat so maybe she's not huge she just looks that way to me because I have no experience.
> ...


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## geonjenn (Oct 3, 2012)

I have two does that were so huge this year I swore they were going to break records of the number of kids born in a single "litter." One even had quads last year so I was sure there were at least four in there. But no, they each had twins. The former quad mom did have trouble with the first to be born and we had to pull him, but someone with more experience may not have had to. We were a little panicked. And he was bigger than the rest of the kids born. We feed purina goat chow, alfalfa pellets and sunflower seeds in a 2:2:1 ratio to everyone every evening. One scoop per goat, two per doe in milk and two in the morning for those in milk. We were doing three scoops am and pm for those in milk but I just reduced it because they looked like they could stand to lose a pound or two.


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## Milk_Maid_5 (Feb 19, 2013)

WarPony said:


> Milk_Maid_5 said:
> 
> 
> > It is hard to tell with her laying down, because my does always look HUGE when they are laying down. My doe who is due right now barely looks preggers standing up but when she lays down it looks like she has a whole hockey team in there, lol.
> ...


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