# Afterbirth? Or stuck kid?



## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

My girl finally popped, but I'm not sure if this looks like afterbirth? Or another kid stuck? The rest have been out for at least 30 minutes. She's pushing a little here and there, but not too much. One of her babies (boy) was Huge, so I'm scared another big one is stuck.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm not the most experienced, but if she were mine after 30 minutes I'd probably scrub up and glove and see what I can feel with just a couple of fingers. Sounds like she's trying to get another one out...plus the pictures on the other thread seem that way to me as well. With that many babies, the poor little last one (hopefully?) was probably kinda scrunched and might be having a tough time getting into proper position. Hopefully somebody with lots more experience will weigh in for you. Good luck!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

^^^ nope I agree as well. I have seen the bubble with the after birth but this really did look like another kid to me. I've been fooled more times then I like to count lol so don't hold it against me if she doesn't have another one but I would be going in as well


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I went in and I think I feel another kid what do I do?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

See if the kid is positioned properly, if not you will have to try to get the kid in proper position. If you don't know what to do, get a vet or goat friend who knows how to deal with this. She needs help ASAP. To save her and possible the kid.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I see in another thread, http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f197/my-goat-never-giving-birth-182253/index4.html
You say she isn't dilated. With your two fingers work around her inner vulva area(inner wall) and gently pull outward all around, do the whole circle inside, you might just use your finger tips, keep doing it until she dilates more, so you can get your hand in there to be able to get the baby out or reposition it, to get it out. The goal is to get your hand in there, so you can check and help the kid out. Remember, if you can't do it, get a vet. Some need more to help dilate. There is a time frame to save the kid and the mother.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I got her out, she wasn't alive. Her head was laid backwards over her back (looking backwards)


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Oh, Chessa, I'm so sorry. But know you saved your doe's life. You did a great job in a crisis situation! Your doe will need a regimen of antibiotics, at the very least. Again, others on here or older threads can help you figure that out. Blessings...


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Thank you. So thankful for this forum and all the help! I will give her a shot of antibiotics starting today.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dang it!  I'm so sorry. But good job getting her out! The ones that end up being dead are tricky ones to figure out if there's another one in there. They don't ever get into position which doesn't make momma push like she did with the other 3. Again good job and I agree you saved your does life


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

So sorry you lost the fourth little angel. We know how it feels to lose one after working so hard. Sounds like Mom and the others are doing well and that is great. You did a really awesome job.:grouphug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry for the loss. 

You did a wonderful job and I agree with the advice given.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

The littlest one is the girl, 2 lbs 7 oz. she is nursing for sure because I saw her multiple times, but she stands and her head slowly goes down until it's hanging with her nose practically on the ground. I gave her nutridrench already, but should I be worried? I go back and forth with "she's just exhausted and weak from birthing" and "OMG pull her now and bring her inside to nurse her back to health"......ahhhh! Don't know what to do. You can actually see in this picture how she keeps doing it. She's the tricolor in the middle.....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Too cute. 

I have had newborns not know how to lay down to rest so, they stand like that and try to rest. Lay the little one down on it knees and butt, this will teach the kid the proper way to rest.

Check the temp in case.

How does the lungs sound?

Can you get her a Bo-se shot?

Nutradrench is good every day until stronger.

Vit B complex.

Some molasses, smear it into her mouth.

Do you have a heat lamp or good sweater and can go out every couple of hours to make sure the kid nurses?
If not and it has been cold I would worry about the baby.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Ok, got her temp and she's under. I took all 3 kids' temps to make sure and they're both 102 and she's at 99. I have her in a sweater and wrapped in a blanket now. It's not too chilly outside, so I know it's not really from the wind.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I just couldn't shake this "something's wrong" feeling with her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

99 is too low, it must be at least 100 minimum then feed her. By a syringe if needed. Bring her inside if she has no heat lamp. The sweater isn't enough. Put her on a heating pad with a towel or blanket on top of the heating pad so she isn't burned, not too hot and monitor her temp. Or get a small garbage bad put her in it and submerge her body, make sure her head is out of the water and the bag to warm her up that way, make sure it isn't too warm, but refresh it when needed with warmer water. Take her temp periodically so she doesn't get too hot. Evidently she isn't staying warm enough or getting enough to eat. 
Check momma's udder to ensure her milk and flow is good.
Worse case something isn't right within. Prayers sent.

Teach her the bottle in case, you may have a bottle baby if she doesn't bounce back quickly and before momma disowns her.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I got her temp back up and milked some colostrum from mama and syringe fed through the night. She is pretty weak though, very wobbly when she stands but can stand on her own for short times. I brought her out to her mom today and she did stand and start nursing, so I know she is eating (maybe just not enough). I'm keeping on top of her and will pull her back in and start her on the bottle right away if she continues to go low or doesn't start getting some energy soon.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can't mess around much. They go down quick and it is extremely hard to get them to come back. Get that B Complex and BoSe into her along with being vigilant that she is actually nursing.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Her temp is not staying "up", it's now at 100.5 (but just barely it seems). She's having poop, but extremely watery. She's def not nursing enough, so I'm still syringe feeding in between trying to get her to nurse on mom. Is it ok to feed her now? Or should I wait till temp gets back up a bit more? Gums and eyelids are pink, but her mouth feels cold to the touch inside.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to pull her and bring her in. You need to make her a bottle baby. She can't regulate her temp so she needs to be kept where it can be regulated better like in the house.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree keep her in the house. I kinda skimmed over the replies so sorry if this has been suggested. I had some preemies born, they were just like your girl only worse on standing and holding their head up. Goat hiker suggested I give vitamin B and liver cod oil so I did before bed and they were so much stronger the next morning. Either way I would still probably just keep her in the house where it's worm till she starts doing better


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It should be 100 degree's at minimum to feed her. But being cold in the mouth, are you sure your thermometer is correct?

Get her poo tested at the vet right away. What color is it? There may be something else going on there, which needs treatment ASAP. She will get dehydrated it is crucial to keep her hydrated now.

How does her belly feel? Full or empty? You don't want to get her too full either.

I highly recommend a vet look her over and test her poo. Babies go down fast and she has been in jeopardy for a while now.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I am keeping her inside now and just getting her started on the bottle. I gave her some molasses in her mouth last night late to try and perk her up, but I do have some cod liver oil I could give her.

Her poop is yellow, like the normal "baby" color, but just really liquidy. I thought it might be from the different things in her belly, like the nutridrench and stuff. I'll see if I can get it tested though today. What's strange is she is kinda doing the same things as another baby was that was born 2 weeks ago (have a separate thread on her) and once I pulled her in and syringe fed her for a few days, she made a total turn around. I'm hoping this is the case with this one. Maybe she just wasn't getting enough nutrition? She's so beautiful, I really hope she can bounce back. The other babies from the bunch are doing amazing, so it's definitely something isolated to just her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She isn't getting enough from mom. I learned the hard way that you need to assess very quickly if they are getting enough or not and pull to bottle feed. I no longer hesitate at all to start bottle feeding. Once they start getting weak it becomes an uphill battle.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


Glad the poo is a normal color, it is best to test it in case of e-coli ect. That may be stopping her from thriving. 
Tell the vet the goats age unless you take her in then they will know. 

How does her belly feel? Full or empty?


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I felt it before feeding to make sure it didn't feel hard or distressed in any way, but just felt like a normal empty belly. After eating it's filled a bit, but not "full" like my other one after she downs a bottle. She's about 2.5lbs, and eating just about an ounce a feeding. Should I up it a little? I didn't want to over feed her right now since she's so delicate.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok the runs isn't good  go to the feed store or tractor supply or whatever you have and find scour hault/ or scour guard. It's a red liquid. That stuff is AMAZING for E. coli. If that's not the issue it won't hurt her but that is the only stuff I have ever had luck with and I have had a nightmare my first year of goats with E. coli


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You want her belly to have something in it, not too looses or too tight.

Here is a good link, go down to Happybleats post, it gives a 2.4 lb goat example of how much to feed.
And how to calculate measurements of what that kid should get. Feedings can be split up, depending on how many times a day you want to feed. 
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/gahhh-not-again-help-please-181746/


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

So I'm doing a lot of reading on Floppy Kid Syndrome, and I think she may have this. She has progressed a little, regular poops, pees, temp good, but she has no sucking reflex, she is very unstable on her feet, and when holding her she will let her head kinda "flop" backwards (not to try and prove my FKS suspicion, but seemed a fitting term haha). She's disoriented and does not seem to focus on you and I started to worry she was blind, and then today one of her eyes clouded up ☹ She'll be 4 days old as of Thursday. I just don't know what to do for this little lady. Getting her to a vet is very tough, so I have to try and do as much as I can. I'll attach a photo of her eye. Also, on the other eye it looks like it has changed in appearance since birth and now I'm worried it's getting ready to cloud over too. How old do they need to be for antibiotics? Would anyone think I should try that? I don't mind one bit having a goat with special needs, and I can accommodate her however I would need to, but at what point do I know if she is suffering? Ugh, it's so hard. She is the sweetest little teeny tiny thing!! Thanks for all the help!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Are you sure it's not just milk that has gotten into the eye? May just need to be flushed.


I had a bottle baby that acted like this.... Not to say it's the same thing. 

We came to the conclusion that his mom was copper deficient during pregnancy. At three weeks old he still wasn't walking steadily, let alone jumping and playing. He never gained weight and just couldn't handle drinking/digestion. Unfortunately he passed away when he was three weeks old.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Treating for floppy kid would be easy and wouldn't hurt anything. It is oral penicillin and thiamin I think. At my house, if we suspect anything is a little off with a newborn we go ahead and treat. I can't look up the exact amounts right now. Hopefully someone else will, or you can do a search for it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What have you done for her so far? What has she been given? How much are you feeding her?


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Poor thing, so sorry you lost him DeerBunnyFarm. I'm hoping like heck that I can pull this one through and not lose her. She is eating 1-2oz (syringe fed) every 3-4 hours and nutridrench. Haven't really done too much else at this point except monitor her and make sure she's eating and such. I really thought at the start "ok, she's not nursing so she needs a day or two of milk to get her coming around" but now I'm realizing it's something more.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

So she hasn't gotten any BoSe or B Complex? I would stop the nutridrench since that can burn their throat. They aren't supposed to get that daily, just a dose or two.

I would also add some yogurt to the milk.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

We also did b complex, probios, and after his initial dose of Bose we followed up with a vitamin e gel capsule daily for four days or so.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

BoSe I think is prescription only here, because of the feed stores I have access to, no one has it (or have even heard of it for that matter) They didn't have B Complex last time I was looking for it, but I'm going to try again. I didn't know about the nutridrench burning, yikes! I had gotten recommendation to give it daily until better before. I wonder if there is access to B online with quick shipment, I'll have to look into it. What would you wash the eye with? Just regular saline?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How often have you done the B Complex? I'd give another shot if it has been a while. PM Goathiker about using cod liver oil. That may also be something you want to give.

With the clouding of the eye, I probably would start her on antibiotics.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I do have cod liver oil.....will do PM....


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Scroll down to Nancy D's post for floppy kid info in this Thread below.
http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/baby-girl-mucus-blood-no-recognizable-poo-116561/

As to the eye, any inverted eyelid?
And lacerations or anything in the eye that shouldn't be there?
Check really close. The baby may of hit it on something too. 
Get some terramycin ointment, pen, original Neosporin or LA200 and put some drops of that in the eye daily, no needle. for a week. 2 x a day or more. If it only gets worse, seek a vet.

I really think you should seek a vet for this baby.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's going to be my next move. The expense of it around where I am is insane, but I'm worried I might need more help with this girl. First and foremost I don't want to lose her, but secondly (as horrible as it is to think) I don't want to spend $600 on a vet bill and then lose her anyway. Ugh, this is just not my year with my herd. I've lost 6 babies this season (1 from this doe and 5 from another) and my big Nubian boy was killed the night before thanksgiving by an unknown predator (thinking bobcat or similar). I've never had so many issues all one after the other like this! Only have one doe still due to kid, so let's hope she doesn't follow the trend of bad luck!


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Oh and I will check her eye with a light and see about the laceration, but to me it looks like it's clouding up from something internally. I could be totally off base though, which wouldn't surprise me at all! Lol


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

One more thought, could this all have been caused by her having her oxygen level cut off, like being sat on or something during birth? She could stand and nurse the first day she was born, but then lost it little by little after that day and a lot of it just seems "mental" so the thought crossed my mind. Just grasping at straws really.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Check to make sure her eyelashes aren't rubbing on her eye or turned under. 
Cod Liver Oil is just 3 or 4 drops daily.
Fortified B Complex and Selenium/vitamin E paste can be bought at Jeffers Livestock on-line. You might get a couple packets of baby electrolytes while you're at it.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

What would be the dosage for the oral penicillin?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would inject. That is 1cc per 20 lbs.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

At the feed store you don't get BoSe, you get selenium and vitamine E gel. They should have that. They don't necessarily know things about animals just because they work there lol.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Chessa said:


> One more thought, could this all have been caused by her having her oxygen level cut off, like being sat on or something during birth? She could stand and nurse the first day she was born, but then lost it little by little after that day and a lot of it just seems "mental" so the thought crossed my mind. Just grasping at straws really.


 I know it is a tough call, anyway you look at it. Vets can be expensive, but sometimes we have to do it.
It is possible from a difficult birth with her eye or pressure on it. Not sure on the oxygen cut off thing.


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

with diarrhea the thing to watch for is dehydration - stop milk and give liquid electrolytes - you can also give pepto for the runs - keep her temp up.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

She has definitely been progressing, so this is a good thing! Started her on B Complex and penicillin injections and her poop/pee/temp have all been normal now. She's still wobbly walking, and can't suck on the bottle, but she's trying to at least now (she more so chews it lol) and she is a lot stronger than she was! Her eye is totally completely White, and I am pretty certain she might have limited vision in the other, (she acts kinda like she is completely blind, runs in to things and you can see her smelling and listening to stuff more than "looking" at it, if that makes sense) but I've been doing little tests here and there to try and make sure. I'm hoping the penicillin will maybe combat that as well, whatever it is. She is definitely a trooper, and a total sweetheart!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Hm, I'm going to go find Myra's story for you. It might give you some ideas.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/kid-down-need-advice-172081/


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope things are OK.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Getting better! She is getting stronger as the days go on. Still not there 100%, and she seems to not see, but she's way ahead of where she was a few days ago. So thankful for all the help I got on here from everyone!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear she is heading in the right direction.
Keep up the good work and praying she will continue to improve in every way. :sadhappy:


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Question, where do y'all usually give these itty-bitty ones injections? I try and pinch her skin, but she has like zero fat on her yet, so it's tough. My fear is that I will hit a bone  I'm using the smallest needle they carry at my feed store (it holds 3cc)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I give it in the armpit area, there is loose skin there. Tent it and give the shot. Make sure you don't go all the way through the skin and it goes onto the ground instead of in the goat. Always pull back the syringe to see if there is blood, if so, remove needle and find another spot. It is easiest to have someone hold the kid while giving it.

Also make sure the needle isn't too small to blow the needle off the syringe and spraying the contents into your face.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm just now seeing this. I am so sorry you've had such a rough kidding season, been there, and it's never easy. Your little girl is such a fighter ♥
I agree about giving shots in the armpit.

Did you give your does a CD/T shot 4 weeks before they were due?
Have they ever had Bo-Se? 

If you can't get Bo-Se, get Selenium E Gel for goats, you can order it on line from Jeffers.com or even Amazon. 
Don't give Bo-Se to pregnant does, but the Gel is safe for all goats. We give our does the gel 4 weeks before they are due along with their CD/T. 

If your in a selenium deficient area, I highly recommend you get the Gel. You can give it once a month I believe (read the tube instructions), but Bo-Se is every 6 months (vet Rx only). 
I don't like giving shots to newborns, especially if I am by myself, so I like to use the Gel at birth for Mom & babies, then 4-6 weeks old I give Mom & Babies a shot of Bo-Se. Everyone has their way of doing things, but this is what I find has worked for us.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I took a video of her walking, to show y'all how awesome she's doing! But I can't figure out how to upload it on here ?? Anyone know how?


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

And here is an updated photo of her "bad" eye (as she's snuggling with me on my lap, such a love!). She doesn't seem to see well (if even at all) from the other eye either, but it looks normal. This one obviously is just total white. So strange. I'm thinking fluid? If the antibiotics don't seem to do anything for the eye, I'm going to try and find a vet that might handle issues like this with goats. And her eye was normal looking at birth. Started clouding up at 1 day old, and just progressed from there until it was completely white. It does not seem to cause her pain (thank goodness! This baby has been through enough!)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I highly recommend taking her to the vet about that eye. In one picture it is all white, the bottom pic I see blood like color starting. Eye sight needs attention right away to try to save her sight. If it only has gotten worse, something is not right especially with doing treatment. It should be clearing not getting worse. I am concerned.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I agree with Toth, that eye does not look good at all.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah, I am going to try and get her in with someone as soon as possible....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Half of her eyelashes are folded under her eyelid. I can see it in the photo...


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I've tried to look and see if lashes were in there, and I've pulled her lids up and out and I don't see where they are turned in? Do you see it on the top or bottom? I'll look again and see if I can tell what you're seeing


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you see no lashes flipped under her eyelid, that may not be the issue. It should be easy to see. 
As soon as you pull the eyelid upward you will see the lashes where they do not belong, if they are not under the lid, she is OK there.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I'm pretty certain there are no eyelashes in there. She does seem to lack lashes, so maybe that's what looks deceiving in the picture.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get her help, very concerned.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I agree. It's definitely time to get her to a good vet.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Yep, now let's just see what luck I'll have finding one on Christmas Eve lol


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Oh, I thought you were getting her a vet a couple of days ago.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I've been trying, but none of the vet offices around me will see her and I haven't gotten a call back from the two "farm vets" that they've referred me to.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Be persistent, say it is an emergency. Call them back, if it has been more than a day. 
Tell them your baby goat can lose her eye, if she isn't seen.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

I just told my husband I think I'm just going to take her there and say "can u just ask the vet if they can look at her eye, it can't wait obviously" and see what they do. It's an animal's eye, I don't see why any vet couldn't at least look at it. I've never had good luck with the house-farm vets around here. It's frustrating. Part of the reason why I usually hold off and try to handle things at home.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, I would take the kid in, if they won't see the baby, there is something wrong with them and they should not be in business. That eye is yelling for help.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, any vet can do what needs to done. They should stain the eye to see if it's ulcerated and if not, give you some steroid drops to heal it.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

So I stopped into the feed store on the way to ask them if they had any other numbers to contact, and just by luck (Christmas luck haha) a guy happened to be there! He looked at it and said it looks like an injury to him, more than a pink eye or something, so to give her penicillin just in case (which I am) and Terramycin ointment on the eye. He said she probably will not get the eye back, but at least it can be treated so that it does not progress or burst. I wondered before if she could have been sat on and had her oxygen levels cut off and that was the cause of her issues, so now I'm thinking that even more so.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

No offense to the guy in the feed store but... She needs to be seen by a veterinarian.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

He is a vet, he just happened to be in there and heard me asking them. I think at least for now at least it's a start, because finding someone to see her is turning out to be tough this week apparently.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hopefully he is right. I wish he would of put stain in the eye to check and look under the 3rd eyelid and all around, before he came to that conclusion. I know it isn't pink eye.

Did you explain what you have already done and when it appeared? Because it worsened since the initial treatment began.


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah I gave him a quick little background on her, and he had said right when he looked at it "I think it's an injury it doesn't look like pinkeye". Like I said, at least this is a start of trying something until I can get past the holiday and take her in somewhere. I'll see if the ointment seems to help any this weekend, and then go from there. This little girl is a trooper! On a plus side, she's eating and gaining weight awesomely! She's up to 2lbs 10oz, which means 4 oz gained this week. And she's trying to hop and play a tiny bit here and there. She's just the cutest!


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## Chessa (Jan 9, 2014)

Wanted to give you an update on my little Tipper.....she is doing amazing! Finally got her seen by the vet today, and he said she looks great for where she's come from. She's behind on her development about 2 weeks (she acts like a 2 day old, instead of 15 days old) but she's eating great and gaining weight steadily, up to 3lbs 7oz today. He looked at her eye and said to just continue with the Terramycin because it seems to be doing a good job. Didn't see any lacerations or anything of that nature, but he said it didn't look like an infection to him, so it's kinda just a strange mystery what brought it about at this point. He was in agreement though that I should not get my hopes up that she'll ever regain sight in the eye. Although there is a chance, it's probably slim. I'm just so happy that she's come this far though, she is my little shadow now and so sweet.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Glad she's doing better


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she is doing better.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So adorable, glad all is well.


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