# Doe limp/paralyzed? in hind after breech



## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

Hello,
I am looking for advice and help in regard to our doe that had a very difficult birth last night. As she entered into active labor she became limp in her hind legs and was unable to stand. This was my first time assisting a goat birth, so I was not aware that this was not normal at the time. The kid's hooves presented breech and she made no progress with pushing for quite a while, maybe two hours. I did not realize the kid was breech, nor that it was the hooves presenting at first. I thought there might be a bubble first as I was told. When I realized time was a issue and she seemed to be giving up, I alternated gentle pulls on the legs during contractions. She seemed so exhausted but we managed to get the legs, then rump, shoulders and head, sadly the kid was stillborn. She passed her afterbirth.

Today, she still is not using her hind legs. She can move them, but can not stand....I am not sure what is going on. Is this a nerve thing? fracture? I am over thinking everything last night...but I think the combination of her paralysis and breech was a terrible combination. Erika


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry for your loss.....

She could have pinched a nerve or she may have Pregnancy toxemia ...it causes severe weakness...is she eating..drinking.pooping and peeing ok? have you taken her temp...here is some info on PT...treatment need to be now....

http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_Ketosis or Pregnancy Toxemia in the Doe.pdf


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

Yes, she is eating and drinking peeing and pooping. My husband said she seemed interested and 
more lively, just not using those back legs. I have not taken a temp yet, though my son said she was shivering this morning. I will look more into toxemia. Thank you!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Once you get a temp you will know how to help her better as well...A high temp may indicate infection and antibiotic is needed...a low temp says her rumen is shutting down...but with her eating and drinking well...Im thinking its not..here is a bit more info on afew Kidding related illnesses...

Pregnancy Toxemia can occur within the last six weeks of pregnancy and is caused either by underfeeding (starvation toxemia equals an energy shortage) or overfeeding. A doe's nutritional balance is critical during this timeframe. Feeding too much grain or feeding the wrong kinds of grain is usually the culprit. During these last weeks of pregnancy, a doe has little room in her body for lots of grain, fast-growing fetuses, and the amount of roughage (grass hay) vital for proper rumen function. A goat goes off-feed when it doesn't get enough roughage. Huge stores of body fat plus a uterus full of fetuses set the stage for Pregnancy Toxemia. Symptoms of Pregnancy Toxemia include off-feed, dull eyes, slow moving, general weakness, tremors, teeth grinding, stargazing, leg swelling, and coma. When fetuses die, toxemia results from the decaying bodies inside the doe and she also dies. All of this happens because of improper feeding by the producer.

When Pregnancy Toxemia occurs, a dramatic change in feed will not solve the problem. Instead, divide her grain into three or four small meals each day. Make sure that she eats a lot of top-quality grass hay. Leave fresh, clean water out free choice. Also offer some warm water laced with molasses or apple juice to encourage water consumption. The doe needs to drink a lot of water to flush toxins from her kidneys. An occasional handful of alfalfa hay may prove helpful. Proplylene glycol dosed at 60 cc orally twice a day can be used, but this product is hard on her kidneys and goats usually don't like it. An alternative to propylene glycol is a combination of 50% dextrose diluted with an equal amount of water and given orally at a rate of 60 cc twice per day. Molasses and water or Karo syrup and water can also be used. Get both Vitamin B12 and Fortified Vitamin B Complex into her, and orally drench her with GoatAde (www.goatsupplies.com). Feed the doe as many green leaves as she will eat; in off-growing season, pick dried leaves and offer them to her free choice. Oral administration of CMPK or MFO is desirable. Niacin at a rate of 1000 mg per day is helpful. Daily dosing with Goat Guard Probiotic Paste is advisable (www.goatsupplies.com). Moderate exercise is essential; do not allow the doe to be inactive.

A good preventative measure for both Pregnancy Toxemia and Ketosis is to offer molasses-based 20% protein sheep-and-goat blocks free choice to all pregnant does. The energy available from the sugars in these blocks goes a long way towards counteracting possible nutritional problems. Buy the 33-pound sheep-and-goat blocks because they do not have minerals that slow down ("limit") consumption. Make sure that the sheep-and-goat blocks do not contain urea or non-protein nitrogen. Use these blocks as supplements to whatever else is being fed. A goat's ability to overeat on these blocks is almost non-existent. Offer loose minerals made for goats on a free-choice basis; the does will eat the goat minerals as they need them. This is a good example of a situation where a combination block is not desirable. One size does not fit all.

Ketosis describes conditions similar to Pregnancy Toxemia that occur once kidding has taken place. If the pregnant female does not receive adequate amounts of proper nutrition to feed both herself and her unborn kids, when she begins the kidding process or has just completed kidding, her body will draw upon stored fat reserves in order to produce milk to feed her babies. Then her own body tissues begin go into starvation mode and deadly ketones are released as by-products of this process. A quick way to diagnose Ketosis: a doe with sweet-smelling urine is ketotic. Ketosis test strips can be purchased at pharmacies; they are an over-the-counter product but usually have to be requested. Placing a ketosis test strip in a urine stream results in a color change that identifies if Ketosis is present. Tip: A goat urinates and then defecates when it first stands after having been in a sitting position for some time.

Treatment is the same as described above for Pregnancy Toxemia. Bringing a doe back from Ketosis is difficult; death is often the result. Prevention of Ketosis is simple. Feed her properly during pregnancy and after kidding. Ketosis -- like Pregnancy Toxemia -- is caused by improper feeding by the producer.

Hypocalcemia ("Milk Fever") is not really a fever at all but a calcium imbalance in the doe's body. The mis-naming of this illness often causes confusion. If a doe is going to become hypocalcemic, it will occur around kidding time. She will become uninterested in eating (go off-feed), may be mildly bloated or constipated, have a cold dry mouth, has difficulty walking and/or rising from a sitting position, have sub-normal body temperature (sub-normal), have cold rear legs and drag them, and may have weak labor contractions. Sometimes the only symptom is hind-leg dragging. Rear body parts feel cold to the touch. If the doe cannot get up, set her upright on her sternum and pull her head to one side; this position should reduce the chance of aspirating rumen contents into her lungs that may result from bloating.

Hypocalcemia is a complex process involving hormonal changes that occur as the doe's body mobilizes calcium in the production of milk. Feeds rich in calcium, as well as alfalfa and peanut (legume) hay, are believed to be the culprits. These products contain calcium in excess of what the doe needs at kidding time. This excess calcium sets off a chain reaction, causing calcium to be deposited in the doe's bones when her body needs to be releasing it from the bones for milk production. Hypocalcemia is a failure of the body's system to properly mobilize calcium. It is not a deficiency of calcium reserves.

The best way to prevent Hypocalcemia is to lower oral calcium intake in feed during the last 30 days of pregnancy. In most meat-goat herds, this can be done by eliminating legume hays (alfalfa & peanut hay) from the pregnant doe's diet. This puts the doe's body in a slightly negative calcium position, allowing the hormonal system to mobilize its calcium reserves. If legume hays are the only source of roughage available for feeding, then no calcium supplements should be fed during the last 30 days of gestation. Pregnant does on grass hay need to be fed a grain supplement containing 0.5% dicalcium phosphate or equivalent. Remember that rapid changes in feeding patterns cause ruminal acidosis, so make all changes slowly -- over seven to ten days.

Treatment for Hypocalcemia is accomplished by orally drenching the affected doe with CMPK or MFO. Both products are available over-the-counter and through mail-order companies. If caught early, Hypocalcemia is readily treatable. If allowed to progress untreated, it can result in enterotoxemia, mastitis, retained placenta, and death. Once again, improper feeding by the producer causes the illness.ot...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would get some Banamine in her.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Sounds like a possible pinched nerve. :shrug: I would probably have a vet out to take a look. I haven't ever heard of one like that where they can't use those rear legs after kidding.


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

Ok. I took her temp and it was 102.2 F. I am not sure what is normal yet, so I need to take a look. I talked with a vet and he thought it was siatic nerve damage, though after reading about milk fever, I am wondering if that is it. He suggested a cortizone shot, that I could administer. My husband is hesitant to give steroids, but it might be our only chance. She is eating and using her back legs a bit now, but really struggling to get around. She doesn't really seem sick to me except her lack of moving, but I don't want to overlook other things at this point.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The Siatic nerve makes since, she feels good other wise so I would treat both that and milk fever....Normal temp is 101.5-103.5...she she is good on her temp.....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would ask the vet for a bottle of Banamine and go with the Banamine. It probably wouldn't hurt to do the steroid but I always like to start with Banamine.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

KW Farms said:


> Sounds like a possible pinched nerve. :shrug: I would probably have a vet out to take a look. I haven't ever heard of one like that where they can't use those rear legs after kidding.


 I agree


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

That sounds good to treat both just in case and I like the idea of starting with a pain killer first rather than steroids. The only thing is I can not get them right away...I am wondering if I could use aspirin or ibubrofen and a calcium supplement like Tums until I can get them Wednesday?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Regular aspirin can be used, not ibubrofen or Tylenol.....Tums are fine too but the sooner you get the good stuff the better


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

I personally would do more investigating into a pinched nerve prior to banamine. Sometimes they completely lose their sense of pain and will hurt themselves further prior to correct diagnosis. Hard deliveries take longer recuperation times. We see this a couple times a year in dairy cattle. Big calf, hard delivery, spine jolted from contracted muscles, pinched nerves, milk fever (a lot more common than you think). Encourage her to stand and if you need to help her, have a friend/husband, whatever help and hold her to stand. Check the hip sockets, make sure there is no popping while you move a leg about. Run your hand down the spine and make sure all is aligned, and not a big kink or a weird dip in the vertebrae. The old saying goes a down cow is a dead cow. And it's true for goats too. They do not ruminate properly, get depressed, lose weight, and lose muscle tone incredibly fast.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I do agree about her rumen function...at the very least roll her to her other side and keep adjusting her position often...


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

We propped her up yesterday and do get her to move around. We have been milking her on her side, but it is so sad to see her limp around. Her sister had a kid yesterday and everything went great, no complications!! We needed that! She is eating, drinking still and being super sweet...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good Job..keeping her propped up and moving is good for her ...You can fashion a sling as well to get her up and off her side... exercise her legs ..message her legs and feel her spine. I would try the shot from your vet...if everything else is normal then a pinched nerve would be my guess....getting her on her feet ASAP is what is best for her health..You aare doing great with her .....Im sure things will turn around for her in your good care


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

She is standing and walking around a little. Very encouraging. And, she looks like a great milker...Of course, she has a long way to go and I am not sure if it would be wise to ever get her bred again. Her spine seems ok, but my husband thought he could feel or hear something grinding or clicking around her hind area. I know it would be great if we could have a vet chiropractor take a look at her, but we can't afford that. I am having the vet hold the steroid for us when we get a chance to get it...30 miles away.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That is encouraging... keep up the good work...


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

She may have just thrown herself out of alignment while pushing. With regular activity it should get better! Excellent! Way to go momma!


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

She continues to improve. Though still limping a bit..What a difference! 

Big thanks to you all...You have been so helpful and supportive.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds good, keep up the great work.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

KW Farms said:


> Sounds like a possible pinched nerve. :shrug: I would probably have a vet out to take a look. I haven't ever heard of one like that where they can't use those rear legs after kidding.


So sorry to hear of your loss and your doe's difficulties. Sounds like it could be similar, but more extreme to what happened with my doe. My doe is small and should not have been bred yet, but when I went to pick her up at the breeder's I found out that she (surprise) was. The doe could not deliver on her own, and I called the vet. (The vet had examined her prior to this and had said a c-section might be necessary.) The vet was out of phone range when I called and then had to travel a distance to get here so that took some additional time. She used a snare and pulled the kid out -- it took some work. Presentation was normal, but the kid was just large. The doe's back legs were unstable/weak and she staggered on them when she walked. I believe what the vet said was that it was from pressure on a nerve. (It was definitely nerve related.) The doe gradually got better over time, although I can't say exactly how many days it took. Hope your doe recovers fully. I agree that a vet's opinion would be helpful.

(Kylee, you helped me ID the buckling's coat and eye color a few months ago when I sent you his photo off list.) Thanks.
Vicki


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry, I just noticed that you can't get a vet out, but it sounds like she is making continual progress. Yea!
Vicki


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## erikapearson (May 12, 2013)

I am sorry Vicki. Yes, our doe has greatly improved. She is back to normal and milking great, much better than her sister that kidded easily after her. Now the question for her is whether we should have her bred again. I hope your gal recovers. Rest, some propping, moving her around some, and I also gave her some calcium carbonate (just in case it was milk fever) really did the trick.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi Erika,
I replied to you yesterday, but I wrote the message before logging in and it appears to be lost in space forever....

So glad that your doe has recovered so well. My doe seems perfectly fine now as well. Thanks. 

My vet thinks my doe should do fine the next time -- the doe should be larger and she will hopefully have smaller kids (rather than a large single.) The vet did suggest finding a buck that throws small kids if possible. Your doe had a single too I think, so maybe she will have an easier time next time, especially if the kid(s) are in the right presentation.

Congratulations on her milking abilities!


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