# Vitamin E/Selenium shot or gel-how to dose?



## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I just realized I am in a selenium deficient area (I think).
I can't do CD-t this year but was told by the breeder to just worry about the Vitamin shots.
This one I didn't remember until I looked it up on Fiasco farms web site.
I can't give shots so would like to use the gel.

The doe in mind is due in 5 weeks from tomorrow.
On Fiasco farms it said to give the vitamin E/selenium at 5 weeks and 3 weeks prior.
I never did notice where it said how much?
How much do I give of the gel and is it "squirt into the mouth" like the wormer?
Should I wait until after her worming is over to do this?

I can't find much from TSC that says selenium or Vitamin E.
All I found was "Manna Pro Jump start Plus".

I can check a few other feed store.
What brand or label should I look for?
Is there one marked differently but is for the same use?

I don't have a way of giving shots so I wanted to check into giving the gel, if it is important I don't want to overlook that.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Okay I found how much to give. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications.htm#seleniumgel
Now I just have to figure out where.


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## Lamancha Lady (Dec 13, 2011)

How do I check if I am in a selenium deficient area other then with a vet. I got it for my girls but I don't want to give it to them if they don't need it.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I also hear this stuff is really toxic if given when not needed.
Would it be okay for me to just skip this, I don't like taking risks?
For my area it is http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/county.p ... rtheastern

For you just click on the correct county in PA here:
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/aver ... stern.html


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## Lamancha Lady (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you for the link Jesse-goats :greengrin: :thumb: 
Ok in my county its Se= 0.36 +/- 0.12 ppm :scratch: Now if someone can tell me if that's low or good I would greatly appreciate it. :greengrin:

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/county.p ... rtheastern


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Why can't you give shots? Do you need someone to teach you? IMO if you have livestock you have to learn how to give injections or make sure there is someone around that can do it for you. While you may not need the cd/t and can get by without Bo-Se, there may be times when you need to use other medications in a case of illness, or something of that sort and need to know what your doing. 
I never liked needles, but once I started learning to give injections, I'm fine with it. If I hadn't been able to give my buck injections of penicillin & Vit B while my husband was at work or sleeping....I doubt he'd still be with us, he was SICK, and still gets B1 shots every evening.

We don't use Bo-Se because we couldn't find a local vet to get it from. However, we did find another clinic in a neighboring town and I am certain they'd get some for us.
BUT, we're pretty happy using the selenium e gel - we get ours from Jeffers, I can't remember the cost but it was not expensive.
Before the gel I had to use selenium tablets and vit E gelcaps.
the gel from Jeffers is super easy to dose and give...tells how much to give, and is a tube like the horse wormer.

We had a selenium deficient kid in Feb last year, he couldn't get up and had no sucking reflex. We took him inside, got him warmed up, milked colostrum into a syringe and fed him, gave him selenium e gel, and kept working with him, giving him as much colostrum as he wanted <he wore a lot of it>, but within 5 hours he was back out with mama, but it took a couple of days of checking on him around the clock to make sure he could get up. He turned out to be a handsome, healthy boy who we all adored and miss like crazy! 
If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't have been able to instantly notice the selenium deficiency, and also would never have known about alternatives to Bo-Se such as selenium e gel from jeffers.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

We are very selenium deficient on Ohio so I actually have had to up my shots of BoSe to 3 per year. Does get a shot about 4 weeks prior to kidding and the kids get a shot the day after they are born. 

After seeing what colostridial diseases and tetanus can do to an animal (not my own personal animals), I will always give a CDT shot. They are horrible diseases to die from. But everyone has to decide what works for them.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I agree with Hoosier that you should learn to give shots. It is rather easy. There are lots of videos on YouTube of how to do it if you don't have someone that can show you. 
If you skip a year of the CDT for your adults you will need to start over with them next year like they never got it and do 2 shots spaced a few weeks apart then go back to yearly booster once a year. Is there a reason you want to skip this year? Some people just don't vaccinate and that is fine if that is what you choose but if you are just skipping a year I wouldn't. 

The Selenium gel can be bought at Jeffers.com. It can be overdosed so make sure the plunger dose not slip.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I was thinking this year or don't do it at all. I am kinda stuck in the middle right now.
I know some people don't do it. The main reason is I don't have the stuff for it right now.
I don't have needles and syringes and I don't have the CDT. I am going to do one of the kids..it was part of the agreement for me to get the togg. They are going to teach me how to do that. I know I need to learn but would prefer someone else did it to show me rather than me poking around. If you guys think I should do the shot I can get someone over to do it.
I was jump thinking the gel may be easier for me right now. She is going on 4 weeks to go which means I better get something together soon. I am also suffering from cash flow problems...another reason why I thought to skip the CDT.
I should have enough for the gel but I am going to check into what it would cost for a neighbor to do it...may do it for free.


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## naturalgoats (Jan 3, 2011)

Definitely learn how to give shots... at least subq..... can't comment on the CDT.. that is your decision to base on your situation but it is true that you would need to start the grownups over again if you skipped a year... 
Good luck!
M.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Some people vaccinate some don't. 
If you choose to CDT thru Jeffers is 4.25 for 10 doses. http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product.asp?pn=0028326&camid=LIV Kids need 2 doses and adults that have not been vaccinated or have been more than a year since last vaccination need 2 shots also so plan accordingly when purchasing. You can also get it a t feed stores but that may cost more. 
Needle syringe combos are good to have on hand for emergencies (if you have medications) and are fairly cheap also.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2012)

Tractor Supply or any farm supply store probably has it for about the same price.
You mat get away with out vaccinating but for me not to give them shots is like playing Russian Roulette with 3 bullets. For less than 10 dollars you can buy the syringe with needle and the med.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Jesse. Vaccinate with CD/T. It's dirt cheap. If you properly vaccinate
your does for this it will give their kids an immunity to a disease that
could kill them.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I am going to try. Cheaper than I thought.
weeks 4 is Thursday...I won't be able to do until Saturday(TSC is 45 mins away)..is it okay to be a little late?
What size needle do I want?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

with the CDT that is fine. remember you are actually going to do the 2 doses if they have lapsed or not gotten it before so you can do it 3 weeks prior and the second dose after they kid. That will still get some to help protect the kids a bit when born. I don't vaccinate the kids until 1 month and 2 months old so that the protection is good. Some studies show that if it is given earlier that they may not get full immunity.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh okay. that answer my question.
I will plan on doing both then. I will order the selenium and get the CD/t and needles from TSC.
What gauge needle?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

for vaccines I like a 22gauge needle no longer than 1 inch. With needles the lower the number of the gauge is actually a bigger diameter needle.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes, I learned that the hard way. The nurse said she needed to use a lower gauge needle...I was like fine by me (thinking it would be smaller or less painful). It was for an extensive Lyme blood test and it hurt.
If I remember right it was a 21 gauge needle..instead of a 30 some gauge I can't remember exactly..


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I use 20 gauge needles for vaccinating with. I keep some 18 gauge on hand to use with penicillian or anything else that is thick. It's much easier to get that thick stuff out with a bigger needle, especially when your goat isn't being too patient.

It's definitely not hard to give shots, after you've done it once. When I was showin market animals I took the Quality Assurance class and we used an orange to show the different ways to give shots. SubQ you go in at a 45 degree angle and IM you go straight in. With goats though, you can tent the skin or pick up a small spot of skin to make it look like a tent and go in towards the bottom of the tent (still at a 45 degree angle) for SubQ shots. It is better to give your SubQ shots behind the elbow than in front of the shoulder. Goats have a tendency to swell a little at the injection site or even get a little lump. If it is behind the elbow people looking at your goats will know it is an injection site lump and not a CL abcess. Lumps on the neck just in front of the shoulder can be mistaken for CL abcesses.

It's best not to have your goats look like they may have a contagious disease when they don't. You should also learn to give intramuscular shots in the neck, rather than the hip. With meat animals you always want to give intramuscular shots in front of the shoulder. These typically won't swell or cause a lump.

Good luck giving your goats shots! It's not as hard as it sounds, I hate needles but don't have a problem injecting my goats. Just keep telling yourself it is for their own good!


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