# Heavy Linebreeding



## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

So when I first bought my goats in the summer of 2012, I didn't know as much about bloodlines as I do now with Nigerian Dwarf goats. I bought a doe that after really looking into her pedigree, is heavily line bred... I know there are pros & cons to linebreeding but the main goal would be that the parents would pass on the "good traits" ... has anyone had a lot of experience with this and would you practice it in your breeding barn?

My buck is unrelated and I wouldn't dare breed her to someone related in fear of having deformed kids or other issues....

My concern is, can she still have deformed/weak sick kids with her breeding? 
Doe:
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001573249
My buck:
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001622009

This will be her first freshening. I know every goat and pregnancy is different I just want to know if her breeding will effect her kids or her in any way.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Wow Mystic Hollow is pretty line bred. That being said, you are breeding her to an unrelated buck, as long as any of his faults aren't the same as hers (mainly because she is tightly bred) you shouldn't have deformed /weak kids. Most likely, not always of course, you would've seen problems in her if it were going to be a problem. I'm glad you are going outward some since she's tight.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Good grief...that doe...I don't think i've ever seen one so in/linebred! That being said, deformed kids shouldn't be a concern if she's bred to a different lined buck, but you could be seeing weakened immunity, growth issues, and/or poor conformation with her kids...or they might turn out just fine. But I personally wouldn't keep this doe for breeding unless she's actually quite nice looking. I'm not seeing any goats in her pedigree close up that would warrant linebreeding so heavily. Was there any purpose given by her breeder as to why she's so heavily in/linebred?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

my nubian doe is heavily line bred on her sire - matter of fact he is her sire and grandad ... haha. (as I start singing that song)

I also just bred half brother to half sister and am LOVING the cross!!!! I did aunt to nephew last year!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

If it works out well, it is linebreeding, if it doesn't, it is inbreeding! Generally, goats tolerate the close breeding better 
than most other animals. (I read that here, somewhere).


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I know breeders who heavily linebreed and they have amazing does. I personally however don't agree with it as every once and awhile all of the health issues of the line will BOOM be on the doe. As long as you breed her to unrelated bucks, I think the kids should be fine


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

She is fine. According to the ADGA Linebreeding thing she is only 10% inbred. I have had does that had a higher percentage and never had problems with kids. The cross of Money to Burn and Amaretto Cream must have been pretty good if they did it twice and then bred their relation together.

I have a Saanen buckling whose sire is also his maternal great-grandsire. According to ADGA's planning he is 14.39% inbred. He is not deformed, weak or small in any way. In fact he weighed 14 lbs at birth. I expect his daughters to have tons of milk, his grand dam is expected to be in the Top Ten for 2012, so crossing my bucklings dam back on her dam's sire should help to get more milk in the kids.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

so long as you outcross her to unrelated stock, kids will be fine (or no higher chance of problems than if she wasn't linebred). 

Each kid gets half of each gene-pair from mom and the other half from dad. So even if she is completely inbred (with all of her genes being identical pairs) an outcross will totally restore the genetic diversity (unmatched pairs). 

Incidentally, in rabbits and guinea pigs (my other animals) linebreeding (especially half-sibling crosses) is much more common and I only work to stay below 30%. Of course, we are working with relatively larger litters and a tendency to reabsorb problem fetuses (would we really notice only getting 3 babies instead of 4 or 10 instead of 12?).


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

To answer the question of how she looks, she's stunning. I don't know what her kids will look like or her utter but over all she is rather nice. Her breeder I think just had a small herd and bred what she had. The only issue i've had with her is she does have minor allergies but otherwise is healthy, pleasant and otherwise a normal goat. She is also my fiance's favorite goat, so if her utter doesn't turn out like i'm hoping on this FF, she will be kept as a pet or sold as a pet doe. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I posted a photo of her.

Life lessons, do your research! 

I understand line breeding but hers is well... even a bit much for my taste. But without looking at her pedigree she's a pretty nice doe and for looks for everyone that's seen her, she's the favorite of the barn.


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

Though I am considering selling her to bring in different bloodlines.


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## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

pretty pattern. What color is she bred to?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

amirafarms said:


> Though I am considering selling her to bring in different bloodlines.


I don't think I'd sell her. Breed her to a nice buck that isn't related and work on a line he is from. If it were me anyway


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

amirafarms said:


> To answer the question of how she looks, she's stunning. I don't know what her kids will look like or her utter but over all she is rather nice. Her breeder I think just had a small herd and bred what she had. The only issue i've had with her is she does have minor allergies but otherwise is healthy, pleasant and otherwise a normal goat. She is also my fiance's favorite goat, so if her utter doesn't turn out like i'm hoping on this FF, she will be kept as a pet or sold as a pet doe. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I posted a photo of her.
> 
> Life lessons, do your research!
> 
> I understand line breeding but hers is well... even a bit much for my taste. But without looking at her pedigree she's a pretty nice doe and for looks for everyone that's seen her, she's the favorite of the barn.


My linebred doe has allergies as well (wheat) and is prone to copper deficiency. However, her kid (Patti) is an extremely healthy, sturdy little doeling with no obvious problems thus far. I think as long as we breed to unrelated bucks we should be in the clear, while still benefiting from the amazing bloodlines :thumb:


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

neubunny said:


> pretty pattern. What color is she bred to?


My buck is a light tan/cream & white... mostly looks cream colored. He's 6months. I posted a photo, please excuse the winter woolies, this isn't the best photo, but he is actually very long, level, temperament is great, nice tight shoulders and good width in the rear. His dam has a nice utter and his sire is putting beautiful utters on his does.

I added another photo of her too.


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I don't think I'd sell her. Breed her to a nice buck that isn't related and work on a line he is from. If it were me anyway


I'm thinking I may hold onto her and just see what happens. My buck crossed with her should make some really nice kids *i'm hoping*. She's a bit shorter than I'd like to see but he's got good length and levelness. Her kids are due in May


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> Good grief...that doe...I don't think i've ever seen one so in/linebred! That being said, deformed kids shouldn't be a concern if she's bred to a different lined buck, but you could be seeing weakened immunity, growth issues, and/or poor conformation with her kids...or they might turn out just fine. But I personally wouldn't keep this doe for breeding unless she's actually quite nice looking. I'm not seeing any goats in her pedigree close up that would warrant linebreeding so heavily. Was there any purpose given by her breeder as to why she's so heavily in/linebred?


Her breeder said "a lot of my goats are closely related" and being new and not asking enough questions at the time, I thought he meant that her goats were like siblings related... I didn't know it meant pedigree wise. When I looked at her pedigree on her papers, her sire's side all are Mystic Hollow bred... So I didn't look any farther TOTALLY my fault. Copper Penny MTB Money To Burn is actually a GCH now and is producing really nice show quality does.


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

Woodhavenfarm said:


> My linebred doe has allergies as well (wheat) and is prone to copper deficiency. However, her kid (Patti) is an extremely healthy, sturdy little doeling with no obvious problems thus far. I think as long as we breed to unrelated bucks we should be in the clear, while still benefiting from the amazing bloodlines :thumb:


Her allergies is just to dust as far as i've noticed. Everything else she's alright, I haven't had any other issues with her.


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## Marty1876 (Jan 12, 2013)

She won't have messed up kids from her linebreeding. Her offspring ought to be healthier then she is since your using a different male. I've seen very much closer, and results aren't too bad then. It's most problematic in a bottleneck, where there is a very limited gene pool. That's just not the case, even though the same sire is used 3 times in her past. 

Even if you breed her to a cousin or uncle now, you probobly still wouldn't have problems. I personally think you should avoid any more line breeding with her, but her offspring from outlined stock could be bred back into her lines again, to tighten quality even more. 

It's not going to be a problem most likely. 10% isn't really that bad at all.


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## Marty1876 (Jan 12, 2013)

amirafarms said:


> To answer the question of how she looks, she's stunning. I don't know what her kids will look like or her utter but over all she is rather nice. Her breeder I think just had a small herd and bred what she had. The only issue i've had with her is she does have minor allergies but otherwise is healthy, pleasant and otherwise a normal goat. She is also my fiance's favorite goat, so if her utter doesn't turn out like i'm hoping on this FF, she will be kept as a pet or sold as a pet doe. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I posted a photo of her.
> 
> Life lessons, do your research!
> 
> I understand line breeding but hers is well... even a bit much for my taste. But without looking at her pedigree she's a pretty nice doe and for looks for everyone that's seen her, she's the favorite of the barn.


I would not judge her milk potential from a FF. I'd give her until 2 at least! She's a lovely doe with nice lines, I'd show her.


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## amirafarms (Oct 15, 2012)

Marty1876 said:


> I would not judge her milk potential from a FF. I'd give her until 2 at least! She's a lovely doe with nice lines, I'd show her.


Showing & good quality milk production is my main goal. She is a very flashy lady if I do say so myself.


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

I think she is beautiful!! And not very much % wise for linebreeding. They knew what they were doing obviously to get her in such wonderful shape. I think you have a winner there. I do alot of line breeding in some lines and I've personally done a lot closer linebreeding than what her pedigree shows. No health problems here. In fact with linebreeding you can actually minimize and eliminate some health issues. 

Don't you dare giver her up! Call me first!


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

I like her!I don't think it's anything to be concerned over at all... Papers aside, if you like her, I say keep her. If she doesn't fit your style, sell her, but I certainly wouldn't sell her because she has the same goat three times in her close pedigree. Many breeders do this. At that percentage, I am sure an issues she or her kids may have are not because she is inbred.


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