# sick bottle babies



## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

my two nubian does were doing great! until this morning, we got them out of their pens to feed them and they just stood there and shook, they are also very wobbly. now they are standing in their pen with their heads almost touching the ground!! we have been switching milks like every other time we feed them between fresh cows milk and their mothers milk could this be the problem? they wont drink anything at all. no scours or anything.:wallbang::wallbang:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Temp? And I'm going to scold a little...you know better than to switch milk like that! What were you thinking? Ok, scold over. LOL That could be your problem...however, I would think you would see some scouring if it was. Get a temp on them ASAP. Sounds like they are way too cold right now to eat anything.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

After you get their temperature and if it is NORMAL, something else may be at work.

Floppy kid syndrome is one possible problem that comes to mind. Note that some kids appear fine after birth, they progress to depression and weakness, and they have normal rectal temperatures. This is treated with selenium and vitamin E.

Enterotoxemia (Overeating Disease) is another potential issue. One of the preventions for this is to *make feeding changes slowly*. So switching milk each feeding was *not *a slow feeding change. Note that milk and milk replacer is a high risk foodstuff if not fed correctly, and can cause the disease. If this is suspected, you need to get the antitoxin (not the toxoid, which is the vaccine) in them immediately.


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

LOL kccjer! ok. it was a mistake, i didnt think it would matter because i have never had babies from my own does. they are in the house and they have been for their whole lives so far! so i dont think they are to cold, at least im hoping they arnt to cold. also we have the round mineral tubs that they are in. since we had 4 new babies yesterday their was 4 in a tub so im wondering if this could happen from being over crowded?? now we have them in the basement with a heat lamp. im hoping that will help some. also i have a new born from last night with yellow scours, is that from over eating? they have an appitite but they only take like 3 swallows then they are done. and its getting harder for them to stand up. does this sound like the floppy kid syndrome? will they die if it is?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Ok, in reading about FKS...I'm not sure that's what you're dealing with. It sounds more like WMD which is treated with selenium and vit e. I don't think it's overcrowding....that would produce squashed kids more than sick kids this quickly. I'm guessing the yellow scours is from overeating. Are there bellies full or sloshy (even tho they are eating very little)? Stick your finger in their mouth...does it feel toasty warm or cold?


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

ok their tummies are firm and their mouths are warm. whats the treatment for WMD and what does that stand for. mom gave them a shot of bose wich is vit e and selinium. ya ok, none of them are squashed.


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

this morning they got up wanting to eat. before i went out to milk the goats i let the two girls run around the kitchen, by time i got back they wear lying down. mom said the red one was moving her head up and down and up and down for like 2 mins. thats why i was thinking it was floppy kid syndrome.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

WMD...white muscle disease and the treatment is selenium and vit e. What I read said that BoSe won't have enough e in it so get a vit e capsule and squeeze into their mouths too.

Tummies are firm? As in they feel like they are full? Ok...THAT is a symptom of FKS. Here is an easy to read article about it: http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=70

And here is a pretty easy to read article about WMD: http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/WMD.html


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Ok. so they have the same treatments? is it the same amounts to? will they die if we dont treat them soon enough? can i get the vit e from the vet? im going to go check their tummies again. they haven't ate since 8:00


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

ok i just checked them and their tummies are NOT full at all! i dont even know how i got that wrong. when i felt the red kids tummy she picked up her head and was jiggling it all around as if she could hardly hold it. the brown one wont even pick up her head. we feed them every 2 hours


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

how long will the vitamin E and selinium take to help?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

you can get the vit e from the store...it's just the human gel caps. I suppose the vet will have it too. If you are going to get it from the vet I'd take a kid in too and see what the vet says about them. No clue how long it will take to work....sorry.

Yes, they can die from this and will go down quickly. Get fluids into them. Stop the milk and just use electrolytes.


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

ok will do. what do you think it is tho?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Hon, your guess is as good as mine. I would be more inclined to think White muscle disease...but I'm not a vet and not there to actually look at them. I'm just throwing out what I can to try and help. Wish I could do more...


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Ok im going to ask mom if we can take one with

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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

well, turns out i didnt get to go with mom to the vet so she didnt take any babies with . i just got done feeding them electroylotes again, they get up and stretch if that means anything. and it looked like the brown girl was trying to poop but nothing came out? does that mean shes dehydrated?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

They could be dehydrated and that would also make them not want to drink and make them weak. Check for dehydration by pinching the skin up into a "tent"...if it slips back into place easily then they are fine. If it stays in a "tent", then they need fluids.


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

but we feed them alot! thats why i was thing FKS, now they dont eat well at all. before they got sick they pee'd for a long time! so maybe they are dehydrated. mom talked to the vet about it and she said the bose is all they have to treat FKS but she did say it sounds lie thats what they have. so i geuss we will just have to wait and see if anything amazing happens.... (i hope so!!) but i was thinking why would the vet say that's all there is to treat them with??


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Ok this morning they are better! But... they have scours. Is this a sign of any of those diseases? Its greenish brown.

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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't know. One of the treatments for FKS is to get baking soda into them also. Are you still giving electrolytes and no milk? The article I sent you says to pull them OFF milk for 24 to 36 hours and get some baking soda into them. 1 tsp to 1 cup of water and syringe 10 to 20 ml into them every 2 or 3 hours. Should see improvement quickly...


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

ok thank you carmen. they still have the scours even tho we are feeding electoylotes now. what will the baking soda do for them? if they were going to die from the start how long would they make it after they got it? do you think the reason that they are still living is because of the bose shot? they do seem alittle bloated.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Baking soda is suppose to help with any bloating and toxins. The FKS is basically an overeating thing from what I can tell. You stopped the milk so go another day on electrolytes and add a touch of baking soda to it to make it easier to give it. I've never done BoSe but it sure didn't hurt anything. 

Carmen, Oleo Acres LLC, NW Ks


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

ok. can we give penniccen instead of the baking soda? they dont like the water with baking soda. the vet said we saved them by giving them bose but they dont seem to be getting and better or worse


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

what's pennicen? If they aren't getting worse, then it's probably just a matter of time. After today start them back on milk (mix it half and half with the goats and cows milk to avoid that problem LOL) Just be very careful not to overfeed as that seems to be what FKS is...


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Ok lol i'll try my best. so you think they'll pull though? is the electolytes giving them enough enery and food to fight this desiese off?


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

kccjer said:


> what's pennicen? If they aren't getting worse, then it's probably just a matter of time. After today start them back on milk (mix it half and half with the goats and cows milk to avoid that problem LOL) Just be very careful not to overfeed as that seems to be what FKS is...


:hammer: its pennicellin. we use it for bloat and it works really well.


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Is it okay to use on a kid with FKS

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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

That I don't know. Hope they are doing ok. Sorry I wasn't here yesterday and won't be here until later today again either. You should be able to start them back on milk today. Go slow...half what you would normally give them to start. Don't forget to mix the cows and goats milk...:wink:


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

just thought I'd update. Both the babies made it! We had the vet out and she confirmed what it was then they just started getting better because of the bose shot. ;-)

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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yay! So glad go hear it


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

I will post pictures tomarrow 

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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Very informative thread; Thank you


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Sorry I forgot all about the pictures  sorry lil red didn't want to stop eating 

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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

Pretty kids!


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

Thank you!

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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Nice!


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## goatlady1314 (Oct 24, 2013)

This one is my personal favorite 

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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

Awwwwww... Cute!


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