# Constant soft runny poo in month old kids



## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi Goat Owners - 

I'm having a worrisome problem with my kid crop this year - soft cow pie like poos that will not go away. First treated with Albon - no effect. Did a fecal - no cocci, no worms. Wormed with safeguard anyway. no help. Its spreading from a trio of triplets to other kids (i have 9 and 6 have some form of this from tootsie rolls poos to all out goo but not watery or bloody). I took away their grain. It started when the paddock thawed and got kind of muddy - this was the first nice weather they could go out. We are having a late spring and things are wet but they have dry places to go. 

If I give kaopectate 3 times a day, their poos get back to pellets. But if I slack off they go back to cow pie. Have tried lots of probios but it makes it worse. Kids are lively and eating (i took away grain but they are on mom milk and hay) when given kao but stand around kind of hunched if not on kao. 

Vets consulted are at a loss. One suggested feeding them good ground up poop from a healthy mom to get gut flora back. I have not tried this.

I am considering trying Baycox because I've read its a cocci preventative and so if they have cocci (even tho 2 fecals came up negative) it might help and it they don't, then they won't get it. Does this sound reasonable?

Please help if anyone has any suggestions - I am at my wits end (this has been going on about a week and half). 

Thanks so much


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble.
How old are they? How much do they weigh, and how much milk are you feeding them? Is it possible that they're getting into something?
It sounds like they have some kind of stomach bug if it's spreading to others though, which would explain why antibiotics had no effect. Are they running a fever?

Edit : I see now that they are a month old. Oops.


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

yes, they are all about one month old and 15 to 20 pounds. All are on Mom for milk so I can't really say the quantity. Except one of the triplets is a bottle baby and she gets 9 ounces 3xday. She has the poos but so do the others. The pen/paddock is dirt and leaves and snow. No green stuff. Had last years kid crop in it but I did not use it this last winter. I clean the barn every other day (they sleep in at night as its been down to about 20 degrees overnight). It seems like a virus that is spreading and the first 2 that got it seem the most better but not over it yet. 

Also - does any one know how long I should continue the kaopectate? How about dose? I'm giving 4cc 3 times a day and its effective. Any suggestions? 

Has anyone had Albon not work and Baycox work?

My vet seems to think that there is no cocci as he has done 2 fecals. But I have read that it can be present without shedding? Is this true?

I am going out to get temps.....ok - generally in the 102 range - 102.3 102.6 etc

And one more question!!! (while i'm at it LOL!) - has anyone used BoviSera or Goat Serum to boost immune systems or get guts back in order? Seems like Hoeggers might recommend this but I haven't really found anyone whose tried it.

thanks again everyone!


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

I've never used kaopectate so I can't help you there. When you said mom milk I assumed you meant that you were milking and then feeding, silly me. 
Albon is a coccidiostat which keeps the coccidia from being able to reproduce, so I would think that a false negative would be more likely, whereas Baycox is a coccidiocide which means it literally kills them. I would go ahead and give them the Baycox if you're suspecting cocci. Banamine injectable would be something good for gut pain if you have it, since their temps are all normal. Slippery Elm is also supposed to help coat the digestive tract and help with stomach pain too. If it's a virus, Baycox won't hurt them and it will certainly help if it's coccidiosis. I hope that someone more helpful will chime in for you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Kaopectate is not a good choice to use for them..I would stop now...if you need something use 3-4 cc Pepto its safer.....what color is the poop they are having.., any unusual odor? are they acting ill otherwise? any fever? Baycox is a very good choice for cocci...preventive treatment is ok..many treat as needed to prevent a resistance to this new medication...


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Happy Bleats -

Why id Kao bad? Its interesting that you say to use Pepto as I have a bottle of each and the active ingredient for both is Bismuth Subsalicytate (262mg). They do have different inactive ingredients - too long to really go into. What is the problem with Kao?

The book Goat Medicine (Smith and Sherman, 2nd edition) mentions using bismuth subsalicylate (either Kao or Pepto) in kids, that it may be helpful but that no efficacy trials have been reported (page 477). All I know is that it is making them feel better, but obviously not fixing the problem. So, have you found Pepto to be more effective?

Thanks again - I appreciate any input!

ps - no fever, playing and ok when on Kao, quite and hunched when having the poos and not on Kao. Poo is regular color, doesn't smell good but, and I'm guessing here, probably fairly normal smelling. Just cow pie like. Sometimes berries held together with mucus. They are eating and holding weight.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That is a very good question...I have always been told and read a few places that kao can stop up a goat..here is a small quote from one source


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sorry sent that before posting lol...here is the source..the explaination as to why using pepto ( the real stuff, not generic) is offered as well...and with everything we do for goats..its each there own opinion and if you use something that you are happy with then take this info with a grain of salt and do what feel best for your herd 
http://www.freewebs.com/lonestargoatclub/goatmedications.htm


> Talking about both Keo and immodium AD
> DO NOT USE this product for diarrhea or anything else on a goat. As little as one drop too much can
> 
> completely STOP the peristaltic action of the gut (releasing the food from one stomach to the next, to
> ...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Also, I do use pepto..dont know if its more effective than keo since I never used it...but it works for us


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

Kaopectate is now the same thing as Pepto in the US. I just read that the recipe used to be kaolinite and pectin which is probably what causes the gut paralysis. It's interesting to read about..although wiki could be wrong.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..sometimes our info is outdated and we hold tight to what we know ...its good to look into it and see if the new stuff will work...


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

Better safe than sorry!


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh, ok - that makes sense! I had heard that about Immodium - but believe me, the Kao I am using has not killed any and they are pooping up a storm!!! Also, they are just lining up and fighting for the peppermint flavor! The bottle baby practically inhales the syringe! (on the bright side anyway!):applaud:

Thanks again for all your thoughts :clap:

(and i agree - better safe.....)


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

You're welcome  Glad we could help out. Let us know how it goes for you.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

what is "normal" color?


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

Fresh poop is usually dark greenish brown, dry is dark brown almost black. Yellowish or greyish is abnormal poop


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Curious said:


> Fresh poop is usually dark greenish brown, dry is dark brown almost black. Yellowish or greyish is abnormal poop


I know. I meant to ask what color the poster considers normal. He/She didn't specify.


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Normal Poop - brown to dark brown. The snow is just melted so we don't have any vegetation yet.

Any iother suggestions regarding what to do?

Thanks!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is she still runny? have you started cocci treatment?


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Well, they are if not on Kaopectate. I tried Albon first and it had no effect so took fecal to vet and got negative on cocci. negative on worms. I am waiting for Baycox to come in the mail but that might be another day or so. I'm not too hopeful about the Baycox as I actually had the vet do a second fecal to double check the cocci. The second fecal was from a different kid than the first. although I have read they can have cocci and not shed....this started with a set of triplets and has spread to a couple other kids. there are other kids that are in with them and are fine but I am afraid it might spread to them, but so far so good. This has been going on for OVER A WEEK. sorry, didn't mean to shout, just frustrated......really at my wits end. my only plan is to gradually taper off kao after they have been 'solid' for a few days. thx again for any suggestions.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

goats do shed eggs in cycles...so not every poop will show eggs..butif you have tested a few times I would think Cocci is not the issue...let me re read everything here so Im not repeating or asking questions that are already answere


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok..so what was not mentioned is bacterial diarrah... Neomycin would be the answer if it is...its not expensive and very effective in treating this..treatment is for three days. you can either give probios 3-4 hours after neomycin...or you can wait until day four and give it to help restore flora in the gut. I also use Banamine to reduce the inflamation the bacteria can cause in the gut..no more than 3 days as well..a support therapy of B complex and CD Antitoxin


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

gmos is having simular problem..after several neg cocci test he went to another vet..found cocci ...some vets just do not know how to check for cocci...you have to let it sit 15 minutes to get a corect reading..just a thought..good you are getting baycox soon...sure wont hurt to use it ..best wishes


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Well, I talked with my vet again. And while he doesn't specialize in goats, he has been a large animal vet for 20 or more years in this town. He's sure it's not cocci. He is thinking bacterial diarrhea and gave me a 5 day course of Cipro. All their temperatures are good - so it's just this low grade thing. We've had a really weird spring and he said other folks are having similar problems. So, stay tuned, we should know by Friday if treatment works! Fingers crossed..........

So you might be right happybleats! Thanks for sticking with me! I don't have banamine but the kids did get their CD-T last week.

Thanks again


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes I had a few cases this year as well...crazy weather...hope the meds work quickly and so glad you have a trustworthy vet...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

ArcticGoats said:


> Well, I talked with my vet again. And while he doesn't specialize in goats, he has been a large animal vet for 20 or more years in this town. He's sure it's not cocci. He is thinking bacterial diarrhea and gave me a 5 day course of Cipro.


I was going to recommend neomycin oral like Cathy said.
I looked up Cipro. Did you get the 20% oral solution? Keep us posted.
I'm very interested in how it works for you.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol.I looked it up too...never heard of it...there are several studies on Cipro in goats ..but I didnt understand the outcome lol..Ill be intersted to see how it works too, although I like neomycin : )


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

He gave me 250mg tablets. Oh so fun to choke down their little gullets! I think I'm going to grind them up and put in the kao cause it's really hard to push down their tiny throats. I'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes - so far, some improvement, I'm seeing more pellets but still stuck together.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can.crush them and add enough water to drench....glad they are thickening up...poor kiddos and you could use the break...


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

*update*

Well, I wish I could report better news. The reality is that its not definitive. Of my nine kids - 3 are healthy and never got sick. 4 got the sickly poos and got put on the Cipro and are doing better (i think, so far anyway, knock on wood). They are still getting Cipro and Kaopectate, I am backing off on the kao (1 ml at a time) to see how they do. The last 2 had bad relapses on the Cipro. One got runny and squeaked when he pooped and had a temp of 102.9. One got very liquid poos and had a temp of 104! I thought we were going to lose her. They are both off Cipro and now on PenG (my vet says tetracycline interferes with bone growth in young animals). This morning the milder case is doing fine and seems to have firmer poos. The other bad one is still very liquidy but her temp is down to 102.2. Still on Kao, and for the liquid one - pedialyte. the worst case is my bottle baby (a small triplet that couldn't compete with bigger siblings) my vet is out of town on farm calls today - so I'll see what he thinks tonight.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it is true the tetracycline can interfere with bone growth however using it for five days wont hurt...it is a better medication for pnemonia than pen g...I think I would ask him for Nuflor ..

so my next question is what plants are they exposed to? Im no expert of poison plants but trying to learn...


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

i'm confused - i know i've used penG for pneumonia before - but they don't have pnuemonia. my vet is not really a goat vet, more 'farm vet'. he's a bit old school too (doesn't believe in BoSe but I gave it anyway)....much like james heriot - laid back and doesn't need to always see the animal, cash only, answers the phone himself etc etc.

plants - none. well, there are spruce and birch trees in the pen they are in. I know its hard to imagine - but it was snowing here last saturday - the trees are just putting out their buds and nothing is green. I had last years kids in this pen (its my best fencing) and they had a few cases of cocci and were fine. I did not have any goats in this pen over the winter. but we have had a very very late spring and this last day or two are the first nice days (over 60 degrees). there are still patches of snow around but the ground is drying out. 

thx


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Pen g works slow and is my very last choice for Upper Respitory infection or pnemonia...Tylan 200 for OTC or Nuflor which is RX is the better choice..
From what I know ( and I do not know everything lol) Goats get fever for few reasons...infection ( from wounds, bites ect.), heat stroke, ..pnemonia..injury..so if your little goat has fever but no injury, no infection, no heat stroke .. then she is ill....usually the illness is some kind of URI. 
If I have a kid with a fever..I do antibiotics, Thiamine, or fortified B complex, C D antitoxin if they are also off food...
so no plants to worry about..which is good...just trying to find out the "why"..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

how is everyone today??


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Most are doing great except the one bottle baby still is going from bad to worse. Fever up to 105 on Saturday with watery diarrhea dribbles, put her on injectable genmyacin. She's been around 103.5 most of Sunday but diarrhea still mostly liquid but with more "control". We're giving pedialyte for hydration but at a loss for how to stop it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you can use scour halt...its for ...Pepto works good ( real pepto..not generic)..keeping her hydrated is the key while she battles this...if its bacterial diarrhea, I like neopmycin..its oral..and it works great..
is she still on Nuflor? I would give probios 3-4 hours after her medication..Antibiotics kill both good and bad bacteria but she needs the good..giving probios too soon after antibiotics will only be killed by it, so waiting 3-4 hours then dose to help restore or maintain flora..I would also keep her on C D antitoxin to help keep her gut toxin free during this battle..you have really done a great job with these kids...!!! Keep up the good fight


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a good home made electro that she wil do better on then pedialyte


Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it. Most of mine love this stuff unlike the electrolytes you buy..


When I looked on the back of the electrolytes bag at ingredients the main ingredients were Sugars, Sodium/salts and Potassium along with vitamin and minerals..


Molasses is a sugar with Vitamins and Minerals


Of course the salts are hopefully self explanatory..


Apple Cider Vinegar contains potassium..


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

*holding my breath*

My little girl might be turning the corner! She's still on penG and genmyacin, her temperatures each morning last few days around 102, by afternoon it goes up to 104. But after 5 days of the runs, her poos are more in the tootsie roll category! After all the antibiotics, I thought everything in her gut must be dead, but she didn't do well with probiotics (i think there is too much sugar in it and that might have fed the bacteria in her gut), so I tried goat milk yogurt in her bottle yesterday and today (a teaspoon full) and, I don't know if it helped but she's doing lots better. Still continuing antibiotics for three more days...

Thanks for all the help!!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good news.....


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey, just wanted to thank you for all the help - so here's a video of my goats in late April that hopefully will make you smile






Ps she's still looking good this evening


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yep..made me smile!!! and that one little black baby ..Really stands out


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## ArcticGoats (Jun 9, 2008)

FOLLOW UP - hey, I just wanted to let everyone know 'the rest of the story'....

Last time I posted, things were looking up and I had a day or so of good pellets out of my kids. Well, things went downhill and over the course of the next week (the first week of June), the diarrhea continued. About once a week, they would have a good day and I would think that whatever treatment I was trying was, at long last, going to work. And to recap - besides Albon, I tried 3 kinds of antibiotics - cipro, penG and genmycin. I tried probiotics, goat milk yogurt, cinnamon, kaopectate, pepto....and finally nothing. Nothing set them right - well, I mean they continued with diarrhea and Icy went on a 3 day milkshake blast. Finally, as a last ditch effort, a truly far flung hail mary - i gave Baycox (which I had thought to do on May 20 but was talked out of it by my vet). Within 12 hours I had 9 healthy, bouncy, pellet producing kids (6 of 9 had varying degrees of diarrhea over the last 3 weeks and 3 were ok but all seemed lethargic). They have been absolutely fabulous for a solid pellet-y week. I am kicking myself for not trying it sooner! I am just adding this post because it might help someone else out. Thanks again (espcially happy bleats) for all the help - Arctic Goats

ps the dose I gave was 1 ml per 5 lbs (3 ml per 15 lbs) and I got the baycox from horseprerace.com ($45 for 200ml plus shipping)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awesome news...Yep that baycox Rocks : )


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

I have a Nigerian dwarf kid that was born Jan 31 and she has yellow diarrhea. What can I do to stop the diarrhea? 


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would start your own thread so your needs dont get over looked....

Is your baby on a bottle or mom? sounds like milk scours..here is a great link that talks about baby poop and the runs..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.UvAeHnddV6Q


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks



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