# Kidding Pen Sizes???



## Enginekid89

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum. I am in the process of having a new barn installed on our 
property for our growing goat herd. I need some help. What Size should I build my kidding pens? I am only going to install a couple of permanent kidding pens, the others will be in pieces. So when I need them I will put them together. If it helps any the barn im having built is 21 feet deep and 42 feet long. It is broken up into three sections.


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## nancy d

Welcome to TGS!
What breed of goats?
Ours are Boers. Stall sizes vary, some are 12x12 & others 12x8, we had to work with an old chicken barn.


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## Enginekid89

Right now I have a mix. I have boers and what folks have said are kikos. Mostly I am planing on boers. I have been told that Goats need 10 to 20 sq feet, is this true? What I plan on using them for is for after kidding, keep them in for a few days untill there ready to go out with everyone else. I was kind of thinking 6x8 pens but im not sure.

Thanks


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## packhillboers

The area that they kid in needs to be at least big enough for the mamma to move around in and 6x8 is too small for meat goat breeds. We have an area that is about 8x10 with open area to move around in. Here is why they need room; Sometimes those triplets or twins need to get in the right position and sometimes a good Doe will actually walk around, arch her back and wait until things are feeling right before her next contraction. Hard to believe but I have witnessed it with our does. Two separate babies were fighting their way out. Two front feet presented, then the fight went on with the mamma walking in the open area - kept arching her back getting them all positioned right until two back feet presented. She needed no assistance and this all would be very hard in a small pen. They need to be able to move around if there is a problem. Others just pop them out with no problem but still... triplets/twins and a mamma in labor will be too crowded in a 6x8 pen. They can go into a smaller pen like that after they have kidded.


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## packhillboers

I like to also be present with all the births but I try to let the Doe do it all on her own if she can and is able to re-position them but usually this type of birth needs help. I am ready to glove up and assist quickly if needed.


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## Enginekid89

Thanks so much for the info thus far. PackHillBoers, I just want to make sure I understand what your saying. Once the kids are born, it would be alright to move them and the mother into a smaller pen such as a 6x8? But while the mother is in labor keep her in a larger pen say 8x10 or larger so that she can move around? If so it would be easy for me to have a larger pen that can be taken apart when not in use. 

Thanks Adam


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## packhillboers

Adam, 
yes, I think it is easier to have them kid in a larger area.You also can move around easier in a larger pen with the mamma too. The mamma with her babies can be in a 6x8 pen after she kids. It will be small but as long as the babies have a little hide away box to escape from mamma's clumsy feet, it can work. We have used the little dog kennels with a tarp over them. They are I think 6x6. We close them in there at night for the first day or two and the babies have a little tub to hide in. If you have a barn area- you will be able to have all sorts of options to work with.


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## packhillboers

Here are a few photos of some of our years past in make-do pens. We are building a new long goat kidding pen this year that will have 6x8 rooms that can open into an 8x10 covered area so if you have a barn with 6x8 rooms it would be fine if there is a little kidding area a bit larger to open up to. The little dog huts worked great for our milder climate but the wind really can blow them over easily. 

The first photo is of our older Doe with her triplets in the kidding shed. She had just kidded and is messy. It is 8x10 and is open but we did close it off with weather conditions if needed with a small opening. After a day, we moved these newborns into a small fenced pen area and with a little covered dog hut 6x6. The last photo is of a small little shed that is only 4x6. it is in the background and is quite small but works for one goat/and or babies.


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## MsScamp

My kidding pens are 5' X 5', and they work very well for my meat goats.


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## Enginekid89

Thanks so much for all the help and the pictures. Pictures get my head rolling with ideas. My pens will be inside the new barn that is being installed. The barn is 42 feet wide and 21 feet deep. It is broken up in to three sections. It is going to have to sides both 12 feet wide and 21 feet deep, the middle section is going to be 18 feet wide and 21 feet deep. Im planing on the two side sections being seperated between billys and nannys. The larger middle section will be where the kidding pens will be located, along with a feed and supply room, a loft for hay, and also a working chute for medication, hoof triming, ect. As of now there will be two stalls for kidding or observation of goats. Each 6x8 feet or maybe alittle bigger, then I will have a larger pen in the middle that can be taken down when not in use for the actual labor process. What do yall think? Also the two side sections will only be for sleeping and a place to get out of the weather.

Thanks Adam


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## packhillboers

What you just described sounds just like my husbands idea of a dream barn. You will have such an awesome set up. I truly think the 6x8 pens will be large enough as they are inside the barn all covered especially with the option to move your goat in labor to a bigger area if needed. This is going to be an awesome barn set up. I can't wait to see pictures. This really sounds like a perfect set up. We have to work with our county regulations and so we go with long sheds and huts.


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## Enginekid89

Thanks again, I really hope it turns out as well as I think it will. Ive been planing this barn for about 2 years now. Its time to see what happens. I will post some pics when the building comes in. Yall wouldnt happen to know how large a Buck pen should be? They will have ample room to get inside i just wonder what the actual pen size should be? Thanks


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## NWIndianaBoers

My pens are 4' x 8' and I really like that size. The barn we use is a converted farrowing house that was previously used for pigs and the pens were modified to work for goats but if given the option to start over I would stay with that same size. We do raise Boers with some does over 200 lbs just to give a reference. We generally move the does in 1 week before the due date and have ip cameras on them to see behavior changes. So hard to judge behavior while you are out there because they are to worried about eating and then begging for more while a person is out there. Definitely recommend the cameras.


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## enchantedgoats

we have nigerians so we can have smaller pens. we have a 6x6 stall for the goats we think are having multiples, we have 2 4x6 stalls for ff.


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## MsScamp

NWIndianaBoers said:


> My pens are 4' x 8' and I really like that size.


Can I ask why you like that particular size so much?


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## NWIndianaBoers

Now once again I will say that the pen size was predetermined for me and I have attached a pic to show the mods we made. For reasons why I like the size makes me think a little. We have kidded in all different sizes and 6x6 is fine with me too. We have kidded in larger pens where we just sectioned of parts of barns etc and it just seems like it is too much useless space that just isn't needed. We move our does in 1 week before due date and leave them in there usually until 1 week after the birth. They have no problems in the smaller space for a couple weeks. Barn space is always at a premium and when a certain size works why use more of that barn than you have to? Now I will say if they were being built new by me I would make it so the dividers between each stall were removable to combine 2 pens or more for the times when a doe and her kids need a longer stay. Or times when a goat gets injured and may be in one for a month or more recovering.

As for there not being room with triplets etc. In my experience nature tells mom to protect her first born wether it is out in a 2 acre lot or in a 12'x12' stall or in a 4'x8' stall. After she cleans it and when the second one is ready to come out she doesn't go lay by it and partially on it because the space is to small. She does it to make sure it stays there and doesn't wander off while #2 is being born because thats what nature is telling her to do to protect it from predators and or from other does etc as if she was out in the wild. With the cameras we are pretty good at being there for every birth. If it is cold we generally bring the kids as they are born up to the corner with the heat lamp and good dry beeding. Without fail all the moms when it is time to lay down for no. 2 aren't going back to where the first was born. They lay in that corner making sure no. 1 is stuck there. Wouldn't matter what size the pen is at that point. Mom is doing what she is supposed to. Some do go to far especially when labor starts again and begin putting to much weight on the kid where we do pull it out and put it up in fromt of her face instead. But that has happened out in the middle of large pens to so it has nothing to do with not enough room for the kid. 

If you are truly blessed with unlimitied barn space or have a herd so small that the whole barn isn't used then by all means go as big as you would like. For me the smaller pens work great and even when building new I will stick with that.


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## packhillboers

Sandyridgeboers.. what an awesome set up you have . Always love seeing pictures of everyones places. It is so good to see different ideas.


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## packhillboers

We have had a few field births in the first year.. I sure would not encourage that as the doe gets all nervous and then the afterbirth is all over the place which encourages coyotes to come. We never leave the afterbirth fluids but always clean it up for the reason of skunks or coyotes.


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## audrey

Just out of curiosity, I have some questions about kidding stalls. 

Why do you all use kidding pens, and so small at that? I saw someone say something about risk of the kids being stepped on, but the smaller the space the more likely it is they will be stepped on because mama won't have as much room to maneuver in. ALso, isn't it bad that mama and babies movement is so restricted? Aren't the mamas miserable in those tiny pens? My neighbors lock their goats up in their 12x12 stalls for kidding, and they just SCREAM 24x7 in there (which in turn makes me miserable because I am outside all day long and have to listen to their poor goats constantly crying, and my sleep is greatly disturbed because their stupid barn is about 100 feed from my bedroom). My goats kid with the herd and the herd gives them lots of room and everyone is always really chill about it all.


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## Ride4ever

I just got an old barn on the back of my property that was being used for cows. I made one section into my goat area and made 5 kidding pens 7x7. My dad said they were too big because in my limited amount of space I wouldn't be able to have enough pens for 7 goats to kid in. These pens still worked fine and were much bigger then the pens I used before this which were probably 5x5 in a pinch. If you wanted to you could have 3-4 bigger kidding pens and then move them into one big pen or many smaller pens after the kids were born or if you needed to out for another momma.


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## NyGoatMom

NWIndianaBoers said:


> Now once again I will say that the pen size was predetermined for me and I have attached a pic to show the mods we made. For reasons why I like the size makes me think a little. We have kidded in all different sizes and 6x6 is fine with me too. We have kidded in larger pens where we just sectioned of parts of barns etc and it just seems like it is too much useless space that just isn't needed. We move our does in 1 week before due date and leave them in there usually until 1 week after the birth. They have no problems in the smaller space for a couple weeks. Barn space is always at a premium and when a certain size works why use more of that barn than you have to? Now I will say if they were being built new by me I would make it so the dividers between each stall were removable to combine 2 pens or more for the times when a doe and her kids need a longer stay. Or times when a goat gets injured and may be in one for a month or more recovering.
> 
> As for there not being room with triplets etc. In my experience nature tells mom to protect her first born wether it is out in a 2 acre lot or in a 12'x12' stall or in a 4'x8' stall. After she cleans it and when the second one is ready to come out she doesn't go lay by it and partially on it because the space is to small. She does it to make sure it stays there and doesn't wander off while #2 is being born because thats what nature is telling her to do to protect it from predators and or from other does etc as if she was out in the wild. With the cameras we are pretty good at being there for every birth. If it is cold we generally bring the kids as they are born up to the corner with the heat lamp and good dry beeding. Without fail all the moms when it is time to lay down for no. 2 aren't going back to where the first was born. They lay in that corner making sure no. 1 is stuck there. Wouldn't matter what size the pen is at that point. Mom is doing what she is supposed to. Some do go to far especially when labor starts again and begin putting to much weight on the kid where we do pull it out and put it up in fromt of her face instead. But that has happened out in the middle of large pens to so it has nothing to do with not enough room for the kid.
> 
> If you are truly blessed with unlimitied barn space or have a herd so small that the whole barn isn't used then by all means go as big as you would like. For me the smaller pens work great and even when building new I will stick with that.


That looks very orderly  They don't jump out of them?


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## packhillboers

Well, this has been our past set up. We have in the past had a pen with two 3 sided shelters. We do close the ends up for shelter if needed. This kidding pen is kept clean and only Does close to labor get to go inside. They all knew this. Our queen Doe.. not our biggest or best in form but is our smartest Doe... she will go to the gate and beg to go inside when she thinks it is time. She has done that each time so far. Here is a photo of her telling me that she needs to go to the kidding pen. I told her "No.. go back out to the field. you are not ready" and she waddled out to the pasture. She had the triplets about a week later. We have put up panels and such when two go into labor at about the same time. They like to have their babies here.


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## NWIndianaBoers

NyGoatMom;That looks very orderly :) They don't jump out of them?[/QUOTE said:


> Never had an issue with jumping out. These are does that are 140 days pregnant though. Plus we never put just one in there by itself without a companion a stall over. We have also had three-five month old kids in them with no issues on jumping. They are around 32 inches just perfect that they can still be stepped over for quick access in and out and switching pens quickly if more than one are kidding at a time. As for being miserable noisy etc, not in the slightest. In January I can send you a link to watch my cams and you will see they are perfectly content and quiet. I have baby monitors that are always being listened to and they are quiet at all times except for feeding .


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## NyGoatMom

So how long do they stay in there? I was thinking the kids would jump out...I'd love to see your cams!!


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## HoosierShadow

We have boer & percentages. Our barn is 12x16. Then we added on a couple of sections. Our permanent stalls inside the main barn are about 5 wide x 8 long and work great. We've had moms w/triplets and it's fine. You just have to clean them out regularly.
I was worried about it being too small when the girls kid, but so far it's been fine. We just take all the buckets out to give the mama's more room if they are moving around a lot.

We typically let the doe kid in a stall that they'll get to keep for a while, or unless we have them kidding closer together, we move the older babies into temporary stalls in the barn additions.
We keep them in a stall to bond for a couple of days, but usually if weather permits we let them out in the backyard for a while to stretch their legs.
Then slowly we start putting them outside more in a pen next to the main pen.
By about 2 weeks they are typically out in the main pen learning to be a herd  
But, at night they are all in their stalls with their babies. Our does just seem to really like having their own 'space' with their babies at night, they get their own hay, grain, etc. without a fuss. 

Once the babies are a month old we set up the creep area, and start teaching the oldest babies that is their safe place, and eventually everyone no longer stalled at night.

This has always worked well for us. But again, we have a small herd.


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## MsScamp

audrey said:


> Why do you all use kidding pens, and so small at that?


I use kidding pens when I winter kid because a kid will freeze to death in less than 15 minutes when the temps are sub-zero as they usually are here. I live in Wyoming and the temps in January, February, and March can get down to -28 or 30 degrees. We've had instances of -60 at times, although that is the exception. We've also had weeks at a time that the temps never get above freezing. During the winter months, we've also usually got cold winds that vary from about 15 MPH to 45 or 50 MPH. My does are all very good mothers, but it is hard to tend to 2 or 3 kids under those circumstances and keep them alive. By putting them in kidding pens I can hang heat lamps, deep bedding, the other does do not step on the the new arrivals when Mom kids under the shed, and Mom can tend to her kids instead of having to drive other does away from her new kids. When I am summer kidding, I do not use kidding pens. The does kid in their normal pen.


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## audrey

^ cripes that sounds horrible! Lol. I totally understand all that though. 

I really hand it to you all who farm in areas that winter like that. I don't think I would do anything that involved me going outside if I lived somewhere like that LOL.


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## MsScamp

It's really just a matter of what you are used to. I was born and raised here so, aside from some grumbling when I have to venture out every morning to break ice and check waterers, I usually know what to expect and how to deal with it.


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