# First goat-related injury.



## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

I have a ND for that has not "warmed up" to me. I spend a lot of time out in the barn, give treats, etc. All the other goats including this girl's sister have gotten really friendly and tame. Tonight at feeding she butted me and nearly broke my leg. Is there any hope for her ever becoming friendly or should I stop trying? We got her in June. She was said to be about a year old at the time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Some goats just never become friendly with people.


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## CCCSAW (Jul 11, 2019)

It never hurts to keep trying but I got a yearling and a kid last 2 years ago the younger supposedly 6 months at the time she warmed up quickly, the older had always been nervous. Though she is more tolerate now i still can't just walk up to her like I can the others and she only accepts attention on her terms, usually when I'm on the other side of the fence where she knows I can't catch her. I wouldn't totally give up on her but just keep a constant add you would with the others and know at times you might need help to get a hold of her for hoofs and meds


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I have s couple of does..that were distant..until they delivered kidds. I stay with my girls once the labor starts..and at least after all kidds are on the ground and have their bellies full of cholostrum & milk. After im penned up with them during that time. They change and accept me.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Thanks y'all! I suspect she may be pregnant. We haven't tested her yet. If she is, she'd be due in November. I will stick it out with her until she delivers and pray that changes her. Until then, I'm icing my leg and pouting over the situation.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

The best way I found for getting an unfriendly doe to become friendly is to be there when she kids. Get birth fluids on your hands and let her lick them off, mixing your scent in with the scent of her kid. This has never failed to work for me.

With a buck, I put him on a lead rope to breed his does. After a couple of sessions, he learns that I am the bringer of all that is good! LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sorry you were hurt.
The bad behavior has to be corrected. 
It must be known it is unacceptable.

Squirt gun or bottle handy, if she thinks about it. Spray her.

Or pull her ear upward until she cries out. Tell her to "Quit" or use a word so she associates with bad behavior and discipline. 

Getting this all under control first will teach respect to you, then you can work on calming her. 

She may get more aggressive after she kids, as she may be protective of them, if you cannot get her under control before then.

Do not have children around her.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

toth boer goats said:


> Sorry you were hurt.
> The bad behavior has to be corrected.
> It must be known it is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice! My husband immediately moved her to a different pen (with our buck and wether). We don't feed them the same as the ladies, so I won't be going in there daily. I will start working with her though as soon as I'm not limping around! My kids do help with the goats but I will make sure they aren't around her.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

If you are afraid of her, she will sense it and may become more aggressive. I have a couple that nudge me when they want petted. (not acceptable, I am the BOSS) I only pet when I want to, not when they demand. But, one Togg can get overly aggressive, I could see where she could hurt someone. Maybe your doe was demanding petting? 
Anyway, if she is a problem and you are fearful or really don't want to be around her, get rid of her. There is no reason to resent an animal. Not bloodlines, breeding, milk, nothing. I'm a dairy and have gotten rid of a fabulous milker because of her terrible behavior towards me and her herdmates. Life is too short to be afraid of or hatred of a goat.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> If you are afraid of her, she will sense it and may become more aggressive. I have a couple that nudge me when they want petted. (not acceptable, I am the BOSS) I only pet when I want to, not when they demand. But, one Togg can get overly aggressive, I could see where she could hurt someone. Maybe your doe was demanding petting?
> Anyway, if she is a problem and you are fearful or really don't want to be around her, get rid of her. There is no reason to resent an animal. Not bloodlines, breeding, milk, nothing. I'm a dairy and have gotten rid of a fabulous milker because of her terrible behavior towards me and her herdmates. Life is too short to be afraid of or hatred of a goat.


Thank you for the advice! She butted me because I was standing at the feed trough and not letting her move another doe out of the way. She likes to dominate the feed trough so I was just separating her and another pregnant doe. 
I'm not afraid of her, just a little pissed at her at the moment. I'm guessing she will be moving to another farm after she has her kids though. I'm going to give her a little bit more of a chance and try to teach her who is boss before I decide for sure.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you think she was actually trying to get YOU or she just nailed you while charging the other doe? To me, there's a huge difference between a not tame doe and one that was intentionally aggressive to a human.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> Do you think she was actually trying to get YOU or she just nailed you while charging the other doe? To me, there's a huge difference between a not tame doe and one that was intentionally aggressive to a human.


My husband said he saw her back up then run at me so I think it was to me intentionally. He started to holler at me to move but he said it all happened too fast. He does not want me to keep her. I wanted to give her another chance because I know I was putting myself in the situation by not letting her push the other doe away from the feed.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Once she has done this she will do it again.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You can always get a "hot shot", carry it with you. It delivers a pretty good shock. I have gone to a hand held one with my adult bucks- they get close and aggressive, I say "NO" and if the behavior doesn't change immediately, they get zapped. With 200# highly rutted dairy bucks (9 in a big pen), I would rather they be afraid of me than me become hurt by their stupid rutty behavior. 

The cattle prods (aka "Hot Shots") are sold at any livestock store. You can get a hand held for close up work or ones with 2' to 4' long rods. Those are good, but hard to use in small areas. 
I do not mean to recommend shocking goats indiscriminately, these are for safety and pretty much a last resort before culling an animal. In the case of rutting bucks, for me, it is for my survival and safety. 

I think that your doe might benefit from shock therapy. At the very least, she will not ram you and will learn to respect your space. It will give you time to decide what to do with her, breed, keep the kid and sell her, or whatever. But, if her behavior is genetic, any kid may have the same aggressive tendencies.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> You can always get a "hot shot", carry it with you. It delivers a pretty good shock. I have gone to a hand held one with my adult bucks- they get close and aggressive, I say "NO" and if the behavior doesn't change immediately, they get zapped. With 200# highly rutted dairy bucks (9 in a big pen), I would rather they be afraid of me than me become hurt by their stupid rutty behavior.
> 
> The cattle prods (aka "Hot Shots") are sold at any livestock store. You can get a hand held for close up work or ones with 2' to 4' long rods. Those are good, but hard to use in small areas.
> I do not mean to recommend shocking goats indiscriminately, these are for safety and pretty much a last resort before culling an animal. In the case of rutting bucks, for me, it is for my survival and safety.
> ...


Thank you. I'm going to talk to my husband about getting one of these. The aggressive doe is currently over in the buck pen until I figure out a plan. Her twin sister has not shown any aggression, do hopefully it isn't genetic.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Goats Rock said:


> You can always get a "hot shot", carry it with you. It delivers a pretty good shock. I have gone to a hand held one with my adult bucks- they get close and aggressive, I say "NO" and if the behavior doesn't change immediately, they get zapped. With 200# highly rutted dairy bucks (9 in a big pen), I would rather they be afraid of me than me become hurt by their stupid rutty behavior.
> 
> The cattle prods (aka "Hot Shots") are sold at any livestock store. You can get a hand held for close up work or ones with 2' to 4' long rods. Those are good, but hard to use in small areas.
> I do not mean to recommend shocking goats indiscriminately, these are for safety and pretty much a last resort before culling an animal. In the case of rutting bucks, for me, it is for my survival and safety.
> ...


Will the shock be ok even if she is pregnant?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It's a quick zap. Hopefully you wont need to use it. I have never used one on a preg doe. But I zapped myself once, accidentally. It hurts for sure! mg:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree on the hot shot. She will be ok if you nail her with it. I mean I wouldn’t chase her for a hour shocking her or anything but a zap and make sure you yell something like get back or no, will be fine. I have used it on pregnant does before when they thought it was cute to knock me down so they could get the grain. But make sure you yell something at her. I have mostly used it on bucks when they reach the stage of flexing their muscles and want to challenge me. I always yelled get back and then zapped them and that came in SO handy when I didn’t have it one days I just pointed at one buck and yelled get back and he kept his distance from me. 
I do agree, well with everyone on here lol but that you do not have to keep her. There are so so many goats in this world for us to enjoy and if we can’t enjoy them it’s all to easy to get frustrated with their daily antics and throw the towel in. But if you do like her or she has something to offer and you want to hang onto her get the hot shot. 
I know the turning point for mine that are distant and even a little crazy about not wanting me to touch them their turning point is when they kid, but being I have honestly never had to deal with a aggressive doe like that. If/when she does kid though very much watch yourself with her. I’ve had some very sweet girls loose their minds over hormones and are not overly friendly when they kid. If she is showing aggression now it might be even worse when she kids


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

One good two prong connected zap will send a strong message. With a stern command, "No" or whatever you want to use.

Do not use on pregnant does though.


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## suz1234 (Aug 22, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> I have a ND for that has not "warmed up" to me. I spend a lot of time out in the barn, give treats, etc. All the other goats including this girl's sister have gotten really friendly and tame. Tonight at feeding she butted me and nearly broke my leg. Is there any hope for her ever becoming friendly or should I stop trying? We got her in June. She was said to be about a year old at the time.


It is all about trust with these girls. She may have been mistreated Before you got her. Such a shame since being friendly comes very natural for Nigerian Dwarfs. Don't give up on her. Don't Persue her for a while and let her observe how you interact with the others. Try sitting in a chair while you visit them.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

I don't think I could use a cattle prod on my does but my Rams, yes, I could. My does have been popped by our hot wire for the chicken coop, they like to go after the feed because as you all know, goats are starved all the time......they have learned they do not like to get bitten by the wire so they avoid the coop now.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

YouGoatMe said:


> I have a ND for that has not "warmed up" to me. I spend a lot of time out in the barn, give treats, etc. All the other goats including this girl's sister have gotten really friendly and tame. Tonight at feeding she butted me and nearly broke my leg. Is there any hope for her ever becoming friendly or should I stop trying? We got her in June. She was said to be about a year old at the time.


Hi...
I'm just 'throwing this out there' because I have not experienced any ill-tempered/aggressive goats. Granted, I've only 'known' Nigerian Dwarfs (so far) but, they have all been super nice in temperament. Our 2 girls are love-bugs...they will lean all over you for some lovin' :nod:

So...here's my thought...
Have you had her on the milk-stand at all..? I use ours for everything...milking, feeding (grains)...grooming...hoof trimming. Maybe your girl might find some 'calm' (over time) with you if you lock her on the milk stand with her feed and take that 'one-on-one' time to brush her or just petting her...touch everywhere (eventually) and get her used to having her udder touched (if you are planning on milking her). If that's the only way she gets her grain, she might settle in once the routine is established.

I'm wishing you and your doe the best and hope it can be resolved. If not, someone already mentioned..there's a lot more really great goats out there and, just because she doesn't 'click' with you or your program...she might be right for someone else's.


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

I have a doe that is a problem also..but she was always "low goat" in the group of 7..now. She and her sister were the last two left (15 years old)...he sister was victim of a dog attack about 3 months ago and died..so now Bess and I have to try to establish a relationship. She is more fearful than aggressive. So I am having to sit quietly with her and share apple treats, etc. No sudden moves, lots and lots of just talking to her. We have "school" every few days, where I "trap" her gently in her shed ..put a halter and leash on her and just sit quietly..will brush her if she allows..pet her neck, touch her feet and just work on building her confidence. Most of all I am making her life predictable..feed at the same time in the same place every day, treats at the same time every day...making her come to me to get a treat rather then walking toward her with food...no sudden grabs or moves.. no chasing ever..lots and lots and lots of talking...I even read the newspaper to her...Goats are smart which is a problem..ha ha. She is strong...has taken me down a couple of times, but only out of fear..not mean just scared. Goats first instinct is to get away by any means even if it means running over anything in front of them. So I try not to put her in that fight or flee mindset and let her tell me what works for her. Slow and steady.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## TlC (Jun 4, 2018)

For the goat that attacked you, I think I would try carrying a squirt bottle set on stream setting...My goats will do anything to avoid water. 

For the wild ones, I house them in the barn feeding area with me. Every time I go feed or do anything they get used to me moving about... I ignore them until they start accidentally touching me. After a few weeks, they will start bumping my legs so I can shove them out of the way without them having a drama attack...when they tame, they will keep munching the hay in the barn while I feed and I have to politely kick them out so I can close the door. Has worked on the wildest ones.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Well...one month of trying to build a relationship with this goat (treats, head scratches) and today she tried to attack me again. This time wasn't feed related, I went in to check the pen walls and fences and as soon as I turned my back on her she came at me. I was ready and was able to grab her before she got my knee again. I pushed her back and said "NO" loudly. I'm going to start over and keep trying until she has her kids, but I don't have much hope. I haven't tried the prod yet because I was worried about using it on her while pregnant.
Discouraging! I thought we were making progress with her....but I also hadn't turned my back on her and given her the chance I guess.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

One last push. See if having kids changes her demeanor. Maybe sharing that moment with her will make her trust you. It seems like she wants dominate you. If this doesnt change after birthing, I would consider finding her another home


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

:up: Sorry she is being such a pill. 

My grandkids have one like that. It was a kid that really should have died at birth. But dumb me fed it drop by drop with a syringe, then the grandkids raised her in the house. She is 3 now and you can't turn your back on her. (full size Lamancha). The other day she charged me, as she ran out of the pen, I was going to flip her, but she hit the concrete and her feet flew out from under her. She was layed out! I yelled at her, now she must think I did it because she keeps her distance and is very respecful of my space!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@YouGoatMe - do you know if this doe was bottle raised?

Sorry she came at you again. I would almost bet money she was bottle raised coming at you with your back turned so I'm interested to see your answer. A dam/herd raised goat does not use that strategy in my experience.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I agree with @saltylove. Bottle babies take chances because they know you better than you know yourself


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

SalteyLove said:


> @YouGoatMe - do you know if this doe was bottle raised?
> 
> Sorry she came at you again. I would almost bet money she was bottle raised coming at you with your back turned so I'm interested to see your answer. A dam/herd raised goat does not use that strategy in my experience.


 I am not sure about her being bottle raised....she very well could have been. The previous owner either didn't know much info, or just didn't want to tell us much. They did say that her and her sister were bullying the smaller goats and that's why they wanted to rehome them. It seems like that was a little understated....she does bully our smaller goats, but also tries to bully me too. I assumed that some light bullying to work out the "pecking order" was acceptable, so I didn't think anything of it. Now I also feel bad because I would love to resolve this behavior, but it seems like it's becoming more and more of a problem. I hate the thought of her just jumping homes with no long-term place.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I don’t know anything about your setup, but you may have to seperate her with a fence, so she can still see the others. Once she kids she won’t be alone, and hopefully become friendlier.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sometimes animals and owners don't click. I will be bold here and say if an animal attacks me or any person, it will not stay here..period. Sometimes that animal will do better in a larger herd setting..in larger pasture where they don't have alot of human contact. 
While waiting for her to kid I would pen her alone. Make her rely only on you for food w a ter and attention. When she kids..be there....be hands on if you can...I know it can really stress some moms.. . somtimes this makes bonding easier. I doubt she will change at this point but maybe she will at least not feel the need to attack you. 
But got to ask yourself..why keep a goat that can be dangerous? Why keep off spring of a mean animal? With bucks and rams. We know their nature...we never fully relax when with them because of their nature..but females we should not have to worry about.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It really isn't good to keep rehoming. I put aggressive goats in the freezer. I'm not willing to put up with it and I don't think it is right to send the problem on.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Sometimes animals and owners don't click. I will be bold here and say if an animal attacks me or any person, it will not stay here..period. Sometimes that animal will do better in a larger herd setting..in larger pasture where they don't have alot of human contact.
> While waiting for her to kid I would pen her alone. Make her rely only on you for food w a ter and attention. When she kids..be there....be hands on if you can...I know it can really stress some moms.. . somtimes this makes bonding easier. I doubt she will change at this point but maybe she will at least not feel the need to attack you.
> But got to ask yourself..why keep a goat that can be dangerous? Why keep off spring of a mean animal? With bucks and rams. We know their nature...we never fully relax when with them because of their nature..but females we should not have to worry about.


Thank you! These are all very good points. We do have a separate pasture we can put her on. I might move her and her sister back there and start thinking about selling. The only reason we have kept her even this long considered keeping her kids was that we need to keep a certain number of livestock to meet our ag exemption requirements and we are just barely there. Once we are well past that requirement I have no real desire to keep her. 
To add insult to injury, I saw the doctor and they think the original headbutting attack might have torn my meniscus. Maybe I can sell her and make some money to offset medical bills lol!


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

ksalvagno said:


> It really isn't good to keep rehoming. I put aggressive goats in the freezer. I'm not willing to put up with it and I don't think it is right to send the problem on.


If I do end up rehoming her, I have already committed to myself to be 100% transparent that this is not a pet goat, she can be a lawn mower but not good with people. If I can't find someone that is looking for that I will be signing her up for freezer camp.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Most times they don't squabble too much if your numbers are a tad off. Here in Texas they give a time frame to get more animals that bring the numbers up to what they want you to have. But sounds like you have a plan of action. Hope your leg heals quickly.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I am pro life and have handled my share of aggressive wild animals. Try taming a 30 year old donkey with no teeth and really sharp hooves. Let her have her babes. You m8ght be surprized. 
But if it does not change dont give her to any one else. Freezer camp is the only other option. You cannot pass her on.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

happybleats said:


> Most times they don't squabble too much if your numbers are a tad off. Here in Texas they give a time frame to get more animals that bring the numbers up to what they want you to have. But sounds like you have a plan of action. Hope your leg heals quickly.


Thank you! We talked to the guy that monitors stuff for the county and it seems like he wouldn't be nit-picky, I was just worried about making sure we did it right. This is our first year hear and the first ag exemption we've ever had I didn't want it to seem like we were being shady from the get-go.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

Tanya said:


> I am pro life and have handled my share of aggressive wild animals. Try taming a 30 year old donkey with no teeth and really sharp hooves. Let her have her babes. You m8ght be surprized.
> But if it does not change dont give her to any one else. Freezer camp is the only other option. You cannot pass her on.


 I was holding out hope because I am also pro life. I hate to give up on any living thing! But I definitely don't want to put anyone else in this position. I will have a serious sit-and-think about this and try to come to terms with it a little better.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

I had a couple of problem goats. They had to go for meat. I always think that after a sale an animal could end up being resold and resold and possibly neglected or abused, in the wrong hands, and that would be way, way worse than a quick death. I did feel bad, I personally don’t eat meat, but I didn’t want the animals to suffer. I felt that if I was having too much trouble with them, and their behaviour wasn’t improving with my very best efforts, chances are other people would too, and they probably don’t have a wonderful forum like this for advice!


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## dmartell24 (Apr 9, 2020)

YouGoatMe said:


> I have a ND for that has not "warmed up" to me. I spend a lot of time out in the barn, give treats, etc. All the other goats including this girl's sister have gotten really friendly and tame. Tonight at feeding she butted me and nearly broke my leg. Is there any hope for her ever becoming friendly or should I stop trying? We got her in June. She was said to be about a year old at the time.


It took us a year to get our very traumatized 4-5 year old ND Doe to allow us to come within 10 feet of her. She was living with horses and constantly in a state of panic and fear. When we got her she was afraid of EVERYTHING. After a year, she finally let us pet her and feed her by hand. 2 years and and she will let my daughter hug and kiss her and she is very affectionate when she wants to be. 
Some goats take a ton of time if you put in the effort but I believe they can all come around!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

dmartell24 said:


> Some goats take a ton of time if you put in the effort but I believe they can all come around!


Ok, just to clarify, the ones I had were born here, but they were cryptos, and one was even surgically neutered, but he was forever causing problems with the other males (buck and wether). The second crypto was not accepting me as boss, I tried everything. Neither was traumatized. They were loved and cuddled as little ones. So, it was a little different.


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## YouGoatMe (May 31, 2020)

dmartell24 said:


> It took us a year to get our very traumatized 4-5 year old ND Doe to allow us to come within 10 feet of her. She was living with horses and constantly in a state of panic and fear. When we got her she was afraid of EVERYTHING. After a year, she finally let us pet her and feed her by hand. 2 years and and she will let my daughter hug and kiss her and she is very affectionate when she wants to be.
> Some goats take a ton of time if you put in the effort but I believe they can all come around!


The part that has me worried is that she will let me touch her and she will eat treats out of my hand. It's just that the aggression comes out unpredictably.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

YouGoatMe said:


> It's just that the aggression comes out unpredictably.


Yes and that has nothing to do with being shy. A goat that will wait for an opportunity to bash a human is unsafe. Too many great goats out there to put up with a mean or dangerous one.


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## dmartell24 (Apr 9, 2020)

YouGoatMe said:


> The part that has me worried is that she will let me touch her and she will eat treats out of my hand. It's just that the aggression comes out unpredictably.


The aggression is a problem for sure. Certainly if it is unpredictable and dangerous. I am like you though and would have a heck of a time giving up, but your safety is more important.


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## Diamond Blue Ranch (Oct 13, 2020)

T


toth boer goats said:


> Sorry you were hurt.
> The bad behavior has to be corrected.
> It must be known it is unacceptable.
> 
> ...


thank you for the squirt bottle info!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No problem.


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