# my Nubian can not stand up



## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

If anyone has any ideas please tell me! I have a 5 year old male Nubian with no known medical issues. Yesterday he was stumbling around and did not keep up with the rest but was still able to get around. It has been really hot and humid for New Mexico and the signs he was showing were that of dehydration. I have forced about 1 pint of gateraide in him since last night, but this morning he will not stand up at all. He has tried but keeps falling. My vet thought he may have an infection, not sure why he thought that, but I did get him the penicillin the vet advised and gave him 1 cc sub q just now. Does anyone have any idea's? Henry was a rescue and my first at that! I have been learning from him but have no idea what to do at this point?


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## gonegoaty (May 15, 2015)

Is he peeing? Eating hay? Does he have a fever? What about hoof condition? Any potential signs of injury?

These things might help narrow down what the problem could be. I'm sorry he's down, I am very attached to my goats too. It's important to try to get him up and moving and eating or he won't do well. It might be helpful to try to get some probiotics in him and I prefer pedialyte over gatorade. But it's important to make sure he's peeing if you're forcing fluids in him. Wethers are prone to getting urinary blockages (urinary calculi).

I'm fairly new to goats also, so I'm hoping that my reply will bump this thread and help you get more replies.

In the meantime, I noticed there's another thread about a goat that is very weak and stumbling and this reply may be helpful to you:


happybleats said:


> I would get treatment started now....both thiamine and penicillin. ..dont wait and see....better to treat and be wrong then not to treat and it be polio or listeriosis. .although straight thiamine is prefered ..fortified B can help as long as it has at least 100 mg thiamine in it.


I see your vet is giving penicillin - have you been giving thiamine?


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks for responding! Eating has not been a problem, although food has not been something I have been trying to push, its the liquids I have been pushing! Henry, my Nubian, tried to get up, I was lifting his rear, but his legs just gave out and down he goes. He does not have a fever, 101-102 since yesterday, I do not hear anything rumbling, he has his shots, I just got a bail out to the yard to prop him up on. He did have a cough that concerned me so maybe the antibiotic will not be a bad thing? hoofs are good, at least they look good? I really don't know? I am having a hard time finding a vet in this area also? as far as peeing, he did yesterday, I have not seen anything today, he has not been up?


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I would suggest that you PM a moderator. Go to the Forum page. At the bottom is a list of people online. The moderators are in bold print.
Hope he gets better.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Penicillin and b comolex with at least 100 mg thiamine can both be purchases at tcs..or most farm supply stores...act quick ..also Google polio in goats and click the tenn. Meat goats link for pen dose and frequency. ..sorry..im on my phone or i would post the link.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Feel his under belly see if its wet...does he act in pain?..check lower inner eye kids as well for color. Pale kids mean anemia which can make him very weak


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## gypsi001 (Jun 5, 2013)

One of my goats did this last month. We rushed her to the vet. He said she contracted tetanus. No idea how or where but she passed away the next day..


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

Thank you all for the suggestions. I did get the Thiamine and dosed him already, had the penicillin this morning, will give another shot tomorrow, his underbelly is not wet and there are no visible injures! His eyes are normal and alert. We did get him standing for a bit and he peed a lot! which I think is good! I have been giving him more water and Gatorade, as I want to make sure he stays hydrated? right? I guess I need to just wait and see, I will keep hydrating him and getting him up, he will go right back down, but I think moving the muscles at this time is what I want to do? right? I would take him to a vet but there are none around here that deal with goats.


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

I am new to this site, I signed up a few years ago but never actually go on! I had an issue with tetanus and one of my pygmy's and was looking for help then, I ended up taking him to my local vet, who is the best of all people! Charlie was locked up, rocking horse position but the Dr figured to just keep trying. We gave him anti toxin, and kept him hydrated, had a tech with him all day and night. It took a week but he started eating on his own, so we brought him home and had to teach him to walk all over again. I did call my vet this morning, but he thought Henry had a fever when his temp was 101. So when he said to come get penicillin and needles, I jumped and figured I would check this site. you all have been wonderful! Thank you so very much! I will keep checking here to see if anyone has any other suggestions for us! Thanks again. 

Cyndy


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

How about M worm? Do you live where there are snails and white tailed deer? If so, Ivermectin injectable and dexamethasone are needed. Some people add large doses of Safeguard too.


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

happybleats said:


> Penicillin and b comolex with at least 100 mg thiamine can both be purchases at tcs..or most farm supply stores...act quick ..also Google polio in goats and click the tenn. Meat goats link for pen dose and frequency. ..sorry..im on my phone or i would post the link.


I have to go out for a bit, if you think of anything else can you send an email? [email protected]


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

Vet was wrong - normal temp 1010- 103 ish - but for possible polio Pen G and thiamine are treatment -needs higher than normal doses -


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

we are in New Mexico, no snails or white tailed deer near me, but that was a thought also. I know the vet was wrong, that's what I was saying, he is a great vet, just isn't up on livestock, goats or sheep. I knew I needed penicillin and that is what he told his staff to give me. He did tell me to give 1cc a day, does that seem right? Henry weighs about 150+.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

He needs 8 ccs of Pen G twice a day and 6 ccs. of the Fortified B complex 3 times a day.


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## dotandrews (Jun 12, 2014)

How is Henry today? I believe this is the link that Cathy was mentioning yesterday. http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html

It is filled with lots of good information.

According to the chart it looks like he would need about 9cc of penicillin every six hours up through 24 hours past his symptoms subsiding. I also have read elsewhere on this site that you shouldn't give more than 6 cc of anything in any one single site so you may want to divide the dose.

Good Luck! I have no first hand experience with this, Only what I have read on here.


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## dotandrews (Jun 12, 2014)

Listen to Goathiker, not me! I was typing at the same time. They know their stuff and always give great advice!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hows he doing?


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

OK, so, we have been out with him all day and he did stand up for a bit. I put a bail out to give him some incentive to get up, he did not get up on his own but once I got him up he was very happy and walked around a little. He is very wobbly, unstable, this is just very concerning to me! Henry was my first rescue goat, he had been mauled by Pit Bull dogs, fixed up but then tied to a trailer for just over a year and was about to go to a sell barn. My sister called me and the rest is history. Charlie, one of my pygmy's, got tetanus from a small cut around where his bands were. This was all new to me! my vet was just mortified and had me bring in the other male with a band on also. He promptly surgically removed the testes. I have to say, I don't go and pick these guys, they need someone and that seems to be me! my heart breaks when I don't know what to do! 
You folks have been such blessings for me and I can never thank you enough! I am going to go to bed pretty quick here, its 10:30 in NM right now, and I will have to wait and see what the new day brings! I will snap a shot of my Henry and post it tomorrow! Sleep well my friends! and thank you again so very much. 
Cyndy


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How are things today


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

happybleats said:


> How are things today


Hi, Henry still will not stay up for long. I make him get up, he pees and pooped a little today, he can walk a bit but is not stable at all. I bumped up the penicillin to 5ml and the only Thiamine we have is powder form and I've been making a paste out of it using 1 ounce scoop and giving it to him on a spoon. He has been more willing to drink water though. Where do I go from here?


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

dotandrews said:


> How is Henry today? I believe this is the link that Cathy was mentioning yesterday. http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html
> 
> It is filled with lots of good information.
> 
> ...


Thank you for asking about my boy! He's no worse, not a bunch better, but no worse is good for me at this point. Thanks for sharing the link. I want to figure out how to post a picture of my boy here for everyone to see! I've not had such great help or care from folks before and you all make my heart happy when it was sad!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

to post a pic...click manage attachments at the bottom of your reply message box...it will bring up a link to upload pix...when its loaded it will show at the bottom of you message box...write your post and hit post quick reply and it will load up the pix with your message...I hope that makes sense : )


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

The little black pygmy is Charlie, the tetanus survivor, he is very attached to Henry.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

he looks stiff....A few things I would do 

BoSe...1 cc per60# sub Q, this is a Selenium Vit E injectable, its an RX from a vet...if you can not get it...get the selenium vit E gel from TSC...he would get 5ml
Tetanus antitoxin shot..4 ml sub Q
Get B complex with at least 100MG thiamine in it instead of the paste you are making...keep with the Penicillin as well..

keep getting him up and keep him up as long as he can stand...

Hows his temp? 101.5-103.5 is normal range...
hows his lower inner eye lids look? you want to see a deep pink to red color


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

Ok, so, I got the anti toxin, 5 ml is what they are calling single dose, so I am going to just give him the full 5 ml, also, could not find the Selenium anywhere. I went to Albuquerque just to get the B complex and antitoxin. So give the B Complex when I give the Pen? and not the thiamine, right? I am giving him the antitoxin right now though.
Cyndy


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I could be totally wrong about this, but the way his front feet are stretched out in front of him makes me wonder if he foundered. Feel his front feet and see if they are hot. Also feel for swelling around the coronet band and see if it hurts when you squeeze his hooves. If he foundered then you need to cut his calories right away, soak his feet in cold water (ice if possible), and give him anti-inflammatory meds. I've never dealt with a foundered goat before (just horses), but I imagine treatment would be similar.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Wait, Albuquerque? NO selenium. Check his feet for founder as mentioned above and for peeling of the hoof walls. 

5 ccs is NOT enough Pen G for his weight. It will just cause resistant bacteria at that dose. He needs the Pen G TWICE a day and the Vit B THREE times a day.


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

ok, checked his feet, no heat other than normal. We trimmed his hooves when he started to fumble, thinking this could be the problem, they weren't bad though. this is the stuff I am giving, there is soooo much controversy to dosage???? Help! my daughter is a pharmacist and had me totally scared about giving too much, the vet I know does not really know goats at all but is willing to trust me and I have no idea what I am doing here! he's the low down:
Antitoxin, in, 5ml single dose vile
how much of everything else is where I need help. Henry weighs about 150, he is eating, drinking, though I have to really push that, he will stand, but mostly only when he is forced to or when he wants to move location. Not much though. It has been more humid than usual here and none of the herd is used to it, they all kinda kick back more than normal. Last night was the first night they all laid together, Henry has been separate from the others, (except for Charlie who checks on him often). But they were all together last night and seem to be in better spirits today. So I need to get the med in him but not sure how much. I posted the picture of the supplement I do give them. These guys hate any kind of grass, they will not eat it at all and every time I try to introduce it to them it always ends up with the chickens. They forage some but mostly get bailed alfalfa, one flake split between the 5 of them and this supplement, will cut down on that though. ?
I really want to do something for everyone here once this is all said and done! it would be so great to all meet in person so hugs can go all the way around!!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Penicillin is 1cc per 20 lbs twice a day. If you are treating for polio/listeriosis, the dosage is much higher. Goats process at a much faster rate and need higher dosages than most animals. B Complex dosage depends on the strength but they do pee out what they don't need.


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't really know what I am treating, I need to consider everything here! Thanks for the help, 7cc is what I will give him right now, and then again at the end of the day? correct?


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

goathiker said:


> He needs 8 ccs of Pen G twice a day and 6 ccs. of the Fortified B complex 3 times a day.


Give this much.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The tetanus antitoxin is correct..the full 4 ml vile is what I would give for a grown goat. Keep him up and moving..Founder is a possibility...both bucks look well fed, meaning a bit over weight ..what are they being fed and how much?

*Jill brought up a very good point on selenium...we need to check our maps to see if we are deficiency or not...those of us who are very deficient it is the first thing we think of as a problem....DO check your maps...Dave posted a updated map link...

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/updated-soil-maps-179364/*


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

happybleats said:


> The tetanus antitoxin is correct..the full 4 ml vile is what I would give for a grown goat. Keep him up and moving..Founder is a possibility...both bucks look well fed, meaning a bit over weight ..what are they being fed and how much?
> 
> *Jill brought up a very good point on selenium...we need to check our maps to see if we are deficiency or not...those of us who are very deficient it is the first thing we think of as a problem....DO check your maps...Dave posted a updated map link...
> 
> http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/updated-soil-maps-179364/*


Hi Cathy!

My babies will not eat grass, any kind of grass! and sometimes in the winter here it is hard to get them to eat any kind of good stuff. These guys are all rescues. Henry was the first, then Ginny, she is his wife! Nigerian Dwarf, then the 3 pygmy babies. I was working and had good means for food for them! as you can see, but I lost my job and what they got became limited. The "husky" part had already happened! anyway, I posted a picture of the supplement I give them now, they have been on that for about a year, and it is not cheap either, so they don't get lots, and alfalfa is mainly their diet. They do like to munch on leaves and weeds and here in New Mexico there is lots of that! I don't have any issues with anyone else either, its only Henry! His feet look fine, hooves are not flaking and trimmed well? Charlie is large and that is my stupid self, he is a mooch and I am a sucker, none of us need to be over weight like we are, me, my boyfriend and the darn goats! we all go for walks everyday, at least we did until Henry's issue. Oh yeah, no bucks, all boys wethered! they still try to act like bucks, but nope, the girls are safe!
I don't really understand the map, but I get no selenium


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Wethers gain weight easy..alfalfa and hay is fine for them .a token love offering of grain to keep the piece wont harm either..lol...
The map is hard to read..but find your county and it will tell you your number...you can post it here and we can figure out where your level stand. Selenium toxicity looks alot like deficiency. And easy to be confused. So knowing your number is best..if your level is high..you need to be careful what minerals are fed ect...


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If his hooves and coronet bands look normal, aren't sore or inflamed, and are cool to the touch then I don't think it could be founder or selenium poisoning (I lost a horse from that a few years ago and it was immediately obvious from her hooves). I just thought from the photos that he appears to be rocking back on his heels, which immediately brought founder to mind. But that could be due to his balance issues and not anything to do with soreness in his toes. Poor fella. I sure hope you can figure out what's ailing him!


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm heartbroken! I don't see any change, he still won't get up on his own but he does move around on his knees. I keep up with the meds, he sees me coming and turns his head as if I will go away if he doesn't look at me. Breathing is not labored, no fever, hooves are not inflamed, no visible injuries, ? I was thinking pneumonia for a moment there, he does have a cough, but it is so infrequent that I am pretty sure now it is due to lack of activity. Plus, no lung sounds. I am in school and not able to be with him all day, the best I can do is get up really early and check in with my boyfriend at breaks. At 55, this is just not where I wanted to be! I am at a loss here and starting out each day with hope, but its getting harder and harder. Any idea's?


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## dotandrews (Jun 12, 2014)

Oh Cyndy, I am so sorry. It can feel so hopeless when you are not sure of what's going on. You are doing your best! Worry is so tiring. Hang in there and just continue doing all you can.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

At this point you really need someone physically looking at the goat to give you direction on treatment.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If he's moving around on his knees I can't help but think he has to have something going on with his feet. Have you tried anti-inflammatory pain meds like Banamine or Bute just to see what happens?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry,I know this has got to be hard on you.... I agree ...I would be calling a vet out...sometimes seeing the animal is needed...so many things can be wrong from heavy worm load to Meningeal worm to CAE...in the mean time..I think I would give him Banamine as well...1 cc per 100# see if it helps him.


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## cyndyloguercio (Sep 8, 2013)

I have an incredible sister that lives an hour from me, she and her boyfriend, my boyfriend and myself all took Henry an hour away to a vet that would see him late Friday night! I have posted this guys card, just so I can share the great things this guy has to offer with you all! Here's where we are right now, and by the way, he said you all did such a great job of helping me and especially for not seeing Henry first hand! Thanks to you all, there really are great people in this world and I have found most of them right here! 
So, Dr says that the "creeking" in Henry's joints are indicative of arthritis, and he is a bit older than I had known, I wasn't given the right age when I rescued him. He had low calcium levels so he is getting some. He needed steroids and pain meds, neither of which I had nor would I have ever even thought about! In regards to the penicillin, he would have needed about 10 cc's for his size, I didn't get the calculations but I will. When we brought Henry in he had been down on his side and had thrashed his head around scraping his eye badly. It was very swollen, Dr says it is almost completely returned to normal now. I have been getting morning calls to update us and today Dr says that Henry is incredibly alert and moving around all over the place on his knees, he thinks Henry will be standing up by tomorrow! so, we will see! but I wanted to let you all know where I am at! I told the Dr that this is an amazing site with amazing people on it! I have attached the Dr's card, just to let you all know that he said if anyone needed help and in or around here, don't hesitate to ask. I have had my boy for 6 years and never knew he was older! oh boy am I in trouble! owe him birthdays! lol! PS, this Dr is not killing me $ wise either! 

I am so grateful for you all!
Much love to you all!

Cyndy


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## dotandrews (Jun 12, 2014)

That's great news Cyndy! I am happy you found help in transporting him! Sending continued healing thoughts to Henry! Hopefully he will be back home soon


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good news in deed...I would ask your vet to pull blood and test fro CAE, just to hopefully rule it out...A good vet is great...a awesome vet is priceless and worth the hour drive!!..

sending Good thoughts for your boy!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm glad you got him to a vet. I hope Henry has an uneventful recovery. If he has just plain old age-related osteoarthritis and not CAE then there's a good chance he'll go on a long time with good support. I have a 13-year-old wether who has been getting a dose of Cosequin ASU in his feed every morning for a few years now. It's expensive to buy, but for a goat it lasts more than a year, which works out to about $12/month (more or less). Good luck!


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## gonegoaty (May 15, 2015)

Glad you found a good vet to treat Henry. I'm wishing him a speedy recovery!


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I wouldnt think a goat with CAE would be knee walking, but thats just me. I still think he either hurt his back or is foundered. They always (horses anyway) rock back on the back legs with feet out front to take pressure off. Sure glad you have a good vet to work with, I hope he gets better fast. My boys get no grain at all and are just on pasture, they are plump and happy with just grass.


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