# Lots of questions- new mom, new kid- NEWBIE



## Willowynd (Jun 27, 2011)

OK...last night checked on goats at about midnight, nothing abnormal. Fawn (nubian) had been laying around for about a week and was doing the same. Came back in and got some work done, then son went to take out dogs around 2am. When he went to bring in last dog, he heard a baby goat crying. I ran out with towel in hand and heard it too. I find Fawn standing near gate straining and baby towards the back of the pasture in a plastic dog house I keep out there for the goats to play on. He is dry. I bring him up to the barn and see another baby- laying next to the gate- it is dead. I tuck the live one under my arm and pick up dead one- was still damp....very cool. My son is there by then and I hand it to him and tell him to rub it briskly like a puppy till dry -at least worth a shot. Meanwhile get Fawn and baby into stall. She is acting like she is going to have another. Grinding teeth, squatting, yawning. Will not let this kid nurse. Son comes back in and says it didn't work....kid is dead. OK...tell him to make bucket of water with molasses for mom and grab my brooder light, change to regular bulb and hook it up to extentsion cords that are outside (no electric in barn and flashlight batteries weakening). He gets those and I wrap kid in towel and wait. After 20 mins- nothing. I try to milk some colostrum from mom- can't get anything. I tell son to take baby- he is still crying, weight and make up some electrolytes and give to him in bottle. Meanwhile, I grab gloves and try to see if I can feel anything. Put in fingers and feel nothing. Feel outside for movement...not sure if I am feeling contractions or kid. Call vet. He tells me to put hand in up to wrist...ok will call back if I am still having issues. Feel and find a soft mass....i can get around on one side, feels smooth and rounded and mostly soft. Not sure if it is a kid in a bag or placenta. I can feel no goat parts. Call him back and tell him and he says that if it is a kid still in sack, can only wait- same with placenta. I wait. Meanwhile son brings baby back out, says he couldn't get him to take the bottle, but he gave him nutridrops. I try again to get kid to nurse. Finally, success. Wait again...still nothing. Give kid shot of BoSe. Fawn falls asleep. OK...now 5 am. Decide to call it a night. Place towel over kid and next to Fawn and finish my work, check again- nothing..then lay down for 2 hours. Wake up- nothing. Get kid to nurse and leave for work. Come home at 4 pm- still nothing, Fawn still laying down. Get Fawn up and give her hay, she eats and I get kid to nurse- he does better this time. He has his first BM. She must have been up at some point- there is goat berries in her water. Leave to get her a bucket of fresh plain water. When I come back he is crying again. He comes up to me and I pet him a while and after a few mins he settles and goes to sleep. Is it normal for them to cry after they have eaten, voided (he peed alot btw) and defecated? I found a placenta outside...only one. Should she be lying around all the time? I assumed she would be up and around today. I am concerned about the retained placenta (at least I think that is what I felt as if it were a kid she would ahve passed it by now I would think). I have oxytocin here- not sure if I should give that to her or not at this point. If so what dose should I give her? Anything else I should be doing? Also, enclosing a pic of baby- are they normally born this thin?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry for the loss..  :hug: 

Left side is the rumen...you will get movement with a active rumen.... the right side is where you feel for kids and under her belly just before her udder...you can also bump them to feel for a kid....

Glad you got the kid to nurse the bottle...

How does his tummy feel..is it full? Bottle babies will eat til they pop....so we have to be careful...they will cry for more....which is normal.... but... it is better to keep them a little hungry.. rather than ...over feed them... it will kill them.... they will yell for more...but we can't give in if it is to much.....  

Take the Does(momma's temp) she shouldn't be laying around alot ...Is she shaking? Give her some calcium solution ...something for milk fever..... in case...if she has no fever it could be milk fever...if she has a temp she may have infection or pneumonia.....and then will have to be treated with antibiotics.... Does she have a foul odor in her vulva area?

Does she have anything at all hanging from her vulva? 

Yes babies will be that skinny just born....

You say she dropped her 1 afterbirth....was that after you reached in or before?
With retained Placenta's... it usually take a week or two for her to get sick...because the toxins take a little bit to over whelm her....unless she already has a foul odor back there...that will indicate infection..
If you feel inside after the placenta has dropped out.. it does feel soft like.. ..did you feel any soft bumpy stuff?
Or do you think it may of been the inner wall...they are pretty sloppy feeling in there..... If it was a kid... it would of been.. hard like bone feel in there... and you said it was soft...

You have to be careful with Oxytocin...I would check with the vet to make sure it isn't to late to give it to her... When I give it...I give a 1/2 cc for milk let down and 1cc for anything retained...but please check with your vet first....

I would keep the kid on her...and allow it to nurse...it may help her...unless... she is to far down ....seek a vet.... :hug:


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## Willowynd (Jun 27, 2011)

The only thing I bottle fed him is the electrolytes- since it was so long after birth and momma wasn't letting down I just wanted to get fluids in him. He has been nursing since then. I went out to have him nurse again when I woke from my nap. His tummy isn't rounded when he finishes, but he does feel like he is getting something. He may be nursing other than when I put him on- he feels heavier tonight and when he peed the urine was not dark. It may be they are doing fine while I am not there, but I just want to be sure he has the opportunity to nurse at least 4 times a day that I can see. Tonight he did not nurse long and was not upset when mom laid back down.

Mom...I don't know what happened to my thermometer- been using an ear thermometer with dogs for years...could use that. Will have to look up normal temp for goat. I don't have calcium- but I do have tums...could I give her those? No foul odor. Nothing hanging. She dropped the placenta after the first baby apparently- I found it near where that one was laying. I walked the pasture looking for a second, nothing found...but is it possible she ate it? When I felt, I felt a definate mass...it was rather smooth and I could get my hand around the side of it but nothing to grasp. Defintely separate from the uterine wall as I was able to in between the mass and her uterine wall...unless the uterus in goats is partitioned? All the drawings I see it is one open area. The movement I felt very well could have been the rumen. I am not sure what side I was feeling on.
I checked her color- eyelids are rather pale. Last wormed in the fall last year. Is it safe to give her panacur? She is not drinking much at all. I am going to dump her water and replace it with electrolytes. She is eating her hay and pellets.


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## Willowynd (Jun 27, 2011)

This morning- Fawn is up- baby nursing on his own- she drank half her water and is eating well. Think we are over the critical period. I will continue to watch her. Meanwhile, should I worm her now? I have panacur on hand. Also, she is due for her CD/T (did not do it a month before due as I found out about 3 weeks before her first due date)when should she and baby get thier vaccines?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm glad to hear she is doing better! How scary that must have been! We worm our girls right after they kid/kid has nursed/all is well. I used Ivermectin injectible <orally> I know people around here use Cydectin, but I don't know anything about panacur. 
I'd think giving her the cd/t now is fine. Usually the kids get their first booster around 2 months old, then I believe 21-28 days later, after that it's once a year.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

When you say baby is nursing on his own, do you mean from mom or from the bottle?
He needs milk, even if mom isn't producing any, formula or vitamin d whole milk would be better then just electrolytes. He need colustrum as well, but if mom wasn't producing, thats not your fault.


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## Willowynd (Jun 27, 2011)

OK, will give her her vaccine. Panacur, I use on pregnant dogs and on pups so I am assuming safe for nursing baby....it is also packaged for goats, horse, etc. Last time I used Ivermectin paste and I do have some of that here still to- at least enough to dose her. Just thought rotating wormers would help avoid resistance.

Baby is nursing from mom. He only got the one feeding of electrolytes.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Is mom still laying around or is she OK now?

Glad the baby is nursing well...sounds like mom may have some milk coming in.. If he gives up right away when you put him on mom and the tummy feels OK...then the baby is nursing when you aren't looking... If he isn't crying out for more milk then he should be OK...I can't blame you for watching the baby... I would as well... :wink: 

Make sure.. mom gets good Alfalfa and grain to help build her milk...

That seems to be the way when you need something and can't find it.... 

Normal goat temp is 101.5 to 103.5

If the mom is better she won't need the calcium...how is she acting?

No foul odor that is good....

Normally the afterbirth drops out after all the kids are born...not after each one.... Sometimes they only drop one.... And you are correct she or a dog could of ate it....

As to the mass just watch her...if she starts acting off ....take her temp....if she has afterbirth still in there she will become ill within 2 weeks....if she does not get ill by then ..she should be OK....and had dropped the afterbirth....

The uterus will be all out of whack ...it does feel quite odd in there... it won't be completely smooth as she has to clean out all the crud...
normally you can almost with you hand as you are pulling out your hand will bring with it some afterbirth...this is not pulling it out... but just pulling your hand out will bring the afterbirth to the opening.. so you will see it hanging ..even if it is just a little bit....The only way to know now is to wait and see if she gets ill or not because you can't go in physically now and check cause she is now closed....

Make mom up some molasses water and see if she will drink that... she needs water/fluids to produce milk.... Or of course giving her the electrolytes is good...

It is safe to worm her...but it is best to get a fecal done to know how and what to treat for... if her gums are pale...
Otherwise I worm with Ivomec... I don't use panacur..so I can't tell you about that...

CD&T can be given to the momma now.... the baby will have to wait a little while... :wink:


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## Willowynd (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks! Yes, it appears he is much happier today- have not heard him cry at all. Mom is up on her feet now alot more. Still lays down after he nurses, but I think that is so he will quit nursing  I am going to assume she passed it. When I withdrew my hand there was nothing. She is drinking well today. I always give good alfalfa to all. Always got it from the dairy farmer...but now looking for a new source as he got out of the dairy cows several months ago and I got the last bale this morning. I also give all AMD Power goat feed since I have the boers too. Which I need to get my year old boer doe bred this year....and hope for doelings from her. I think I am going to keep this buckling and use him on the gals in the future- my boer wether can keep him company. I was not going to keep a buck- but already getting attachd to the little booger


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Congrats on the cute boy! Sorry about the other kid, :hug: 
Welcome from NJ :wave:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds like things are going good so far... :thumbup: just keep an eye on the babies tummy.. make sure it is full or close to it .... not empty..

Also watch mom... for at least 2 weeks.... then you will know for sure....if she did drop her afterbirth...I think she did but by then.... you will know one way or another.... also another thing you can do......to watch for that... if she is getting an infection....you can do a sniff test....by putting on a rubber glove and wipe her vulva....with one finger just at the inner opening... to see if it smells bad ...if she does ...it is the beginning of an infection...
when they get a real bad infection starting... you can literally smell an awful odor coming from her ..just by standing near her..... with any foul odor...coming from there... starting antibiotics is crucial.. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things going?


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