# How to pull kids, if I have to...



## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

6 weeks till my first kids are due! I wanted to ask, before I need to know... in the event I do need to pull a kid... what's the best way to do it? I dont wanna pull on the wrong part and hurt the baby! I understand positioning, etc... just haven't seen anything in detail about the actual act of pulling.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

I have been wondering the same. We have 2 nigerians and they are so small not sure how I could go in...


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## Jigglypuff598 (Jan 9, 2013)

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/goats/Resources/GoatArticles/GoatHealth/KidCare/KiddingHandbook.pdf

Click on that link and scroll down a ways and it gives great pictures and examples of what to do in different birthing situations. Very informative. Let me know if the link doesn't open for you.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Pull as momma pushes, bit by bit


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

The best way I can suggest is to be gentle and once inside close your eyes so you can visual what body part you are feeling. Things that help in identifying what you are feeling are tails, ears and nose; legs are easy to identify but then you have to determine if it is rear or fron and if the legs are from the same kid. Just take your time and locate something identifiable. 

When pulling go with whichever end is closer to the exit. If you have rear legs or front legs and head then gently bring the baby towards the way out. Once there you do not want to just pull you give gently pull with each contraction mom has. If mom is exausted then you may need to pull without contractions but always slow and gentle. 
Hope that makes sense and answers your question.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

the most important thing to remember when having to help mom is to work with her body...only pull gently when she is pushing...when she stops..you stop...go slow..dont rush..i baby's head is hanging out you can make sure its airway is clear of goop by wipeing the face and nose and mouth..if baby is breech ( you will see hooves with pad side up) make sure to get the head out quickly once the body is delivered..


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

When having to help assist a nigerian dwarf, can you really go in? Last year both does delivered fine with minimal help (just had to help pull a breach kid once legs were out) so going in seems very scary... Both girls are much larger than last year...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with what has been said, really good advice.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

seren said:


> When having to help assist a nigerian dwarf, can you really go in? Last year both does delivered fine with minimal help (just had to help pull a breach kid once legs were out) so going in seems very scary... Both girls are much larger than last year...


Yes you can, we did


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Most likely everything will be just fine : ) its great you are preparing..I studied pictures of "what could happen" until my eye balls burned my first few years lol....but its good to have those images so if you do need to help you can close your eyes and "see" with your mind and hands..: )...


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Just wanted to add, you don't want to pull straight out. You want to pull down (towards the does feet if she is laying down. If you watch kids being born naturally you will see that as they come out they will curve towards the does feet (and her head) they don't go straight out from her. Kids will come a lot easier if you are pulling them the way they are meant to go.

As far as what body part, I only ever pull on their legs, I typically grasp the front or rear leg by the cannon bone (long bone between the knee (or hock) and the ankle joint) You will have to have a pretty tight hold as the kids legs are wet and very slippery. Sometimes it helps to pull one leg a little then the other to kind of inch the kid forward and make the kids shoulders as small as possible. If I see a kid coming in the correct position I usually leave them alone and let them come on their own, it can be hard to sit back and watch, but it is easier on the doe if she takes it at her own pace. If the kid is taking too long then I will usually assist a little by pulling the front legs out as that typically makes the shoulder area smaller and easier for the doe to push out.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

ptgoats45 said:


> Just wanted to add, you don't want to pull straight out. You want to pull down (towards the does feet if she is laying down. If you watch kids being born naturally you will see that as they come out they will curve towards the does feet (and her head) they don't go straight out from her. Kids will come a lot easier if you are pulling them the way they are meant to go.
> 
> As far as what body part, I only ever pull on their legs, I typically grasp the front or rear leg by the cannon bone (long bone between the knee (or hock) and the ankle joint) You will have to have a pretty tight hold as the kids legs are wet and very slippery. Sometimes it helps to pull one leg a little then the other to kind of inch the kid forward and make the kids shoulders as small as possible. If I see a kid coming in the correct position I usually leave them alone and let them come on their own, it can be hard to sit back and watch, but it is easier on the doe if she takes it at her own pace. If the kid is taking too long then I will usually assist a little by pulling the front legs out as that typically makes the shoulder area smaller and easier for the doe to push out.


What is to long?? My doe had hers out in a minute last year so I don't want to wait to long???


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

Great, thanks! I printed out that handbook and will keep it in my kidding box! I'm getting so excited for the babies to come (and for the milk to come, lol)! And THANK you ALL SOOOO much! I dont really feel nervous about it at all. I feel like I've read enough that I will be able to handle any minor problems that could arise (while firmly believing everything will be just fine!).


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

seren said:


> What is to long?? My doe had hers out in a minute last year so I don't want to wait to long???


About 30 minutes of active pushing without progress is when I go in.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

You can 110% go in with small nigies. I had to go in on my 17" girl this year. Almost up to my elbow.

Just remember - if you have feet hanging out and still can't get that kid out - it's ok to push everything back in. I had to do that because the head was bent all wierd. Push everything back in and reorg - then that kid came out. Still had to pull but got her out.

And - if things get slippery - you might need papertowels to get a good grip.

It's more about identifing when you need to go in I think. Don't be afraid and remember sometimes you need to get strong with moving kids around and pulling.

Make sure you have banamine and penG on hand along with needles. 
Hoping all goes well for you.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

When my does start active labor, I usually insert a couple fingers and check the position of the kid then. If it is in the correct position (you can feel hooves and their nose, or back hooves), then I sit back and wait. If it has been 20 minutes or so and no progress has been made then I will check again and may try to pull the front legs forward a little bit to help the kid out and make their shoulder area a little smaller, generally if they are in the right position they will come on their own. I usually just go with my gut, if I feel like it is taking too long then I will check/help them. The best thing to do is to check kid position before the doe has been pushing on the kid for a long time, if you do a quick check of position when they start active labor, you can reposition the kid before it and the others are jammed up against the cervix and save the doe from having to push on a stuck kid and wearing her out.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> When having to help assist a nigerian dwarf, can you really go in? Last year both does delivered fine with minimal help (just had to help pull a breach kid once legs were out) so going in seems very scary... Both girls are much larger than last year...


Yes, you can. I'm not sure about a large man's hand, but a woman's hand can fit. Just be slow and careful. I reached into a doe for the first time just a couple days ago. You need some kind of lubricant or you can't do it. I had no birthing lubricant, so I used water with a natural dish soap added.
Through 8 kiddings (15 kids), I have never yet had to reposition a kid and or had one die during birth. I always give my does apple cider vinegar in their water during pregnancy. It is reputed to help a LOT with minimizing all kinds of birthing problems, including wrong-positioned kids. I am also very careful to be there in case they do need help.
Oh, and lots of prayer is indispensable.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

milkmaid said:


> Yes, you can. I'm not sure about a large man's hand, but a woman's hand can fit. Just be slow and careful. I reached into a doe for the first time just a couple days ago. You need some kind of lubricant or you can't do it. I had no birthing lubricant, so I used water with a natural dish soap added.
> Through 8 kiddings (15 kids), I have never yet had to reposition a kid and or had one die during birth. I always give my does apple cider vinegar in their water during pregnancy. It is reputed to help a LOT with minimizing all kinds of birthing problems, including wrong-positioned kids. I am also very careful to be there in case they do need help.
> Oh, and lots of prayer is indispensable.


Besides the ACV, what are your goats' diet? I'd love to minimize as many problems as well


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Besides the ACV, what are your goats' diet?


Mixed grass hay, the right balance of minerals, as much grass and weeds as I can manage to give them, and grain (either all-stock feed or whole, soaked grain) when they need it.
My biggest kidding problem was this year. Though Helen normally kids with absolutely no problem, she did not dilate until I reached in and helped her, and then the second kid had one leg back. :shrug: 
Maybe I've just been blessed...but as long as this management works, I'll continue with it.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

milkmaid said:


> Mixed grass hay, the right balance of minerals, as much grass and weeds as I can manage to give them, and grain (either all-stock feed or whole, soaked grain) when they need it.
> My biggest kidding problem was this year. Though Helen normally kids with absolutely no problem, she did not dilate until I reached in and helped her, and then the second kid had one leg back. :shrug:
> Maybe I've just been blessed...but as long as this management works, I'll continue with it.


Thank you for the info. Minus the Apple cider vinegar I have my does on that diet! Yeah!!!!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Seren, if I may ask, do you notice similar results? Few birthing problems?


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

milkmaid said:


> Seren, if I may ask, do you notice similar results? Few birthing problems?


This is my first year! Last year I bought my does 1 month before kidding! So I am hoping for easy kidding this year! We bought the goats for family milking and cheese making, now we have a added a gorgeous buck for breeding too! Goats are addictive! My girls are due anytime (they were out to pasture with the buck so I don't have an exact due date just a month they could be due in) do you think it is ok to add the Apple cider vinegar now? If so how much do you use?


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Anytime is fine to add the ACV! I am not sure how big a difference it will make.
I don't measure, but I think 1-2 tablespoons per doe per day is a good amount. You can give it in the water, feed, whatever.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

milkmaid said:


> Anytime is fine to add the ACV! I am not sure how big a difference it will make.
> I don't measure, but I think 1-2 tablespoons per doe per day is a good amount. You can give it in the water, feed, whatever.


Okay thank you! I am headed out to add some to the water now!


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

I started adding ACV a couple weeks ago after seeing so much on here about it. It's CRAZY how much cleaner their water bucket is staying! I just put a good splash in there (it only holds about 3gal), then add more whenever it doesn't "fizz" when I add more water (I add water at least daily if not more often). I do need to go get more though. I'm going to start using it for the chickens too - just so I dont have to scrub algae out of the buckets anymore!


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## FarmerJen (Oct 18, 2012)

My girls are getting SOOOOO wide! They still have 4+ weeks to go. I'm hoping I dont wind up with 8 kids! LOL My little doe almost touches the ground when she squats to pee now! I was laughing on our way back from browsing yesterday, at the way both of them were waddling.


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