# Sore Mouth???



## surveyman (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok, we've got this older boer doe. Her lips are all swelled up and looked to be a little scabbed over. It looks like it itches because she appears to be trying to rub her mouth on our legs to scratch. And another thing, her breath is awful. Is this sore mouth?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

There is a good chance, but go out and look in side her mouth at like her toung, if there is white dots on it get her on pen. Get a pic of her mouth or look up pics of sore mouth to be sure. I purchased a few older does and I have sore mouth here, the old girls got it and one got like a 2nd infection on the inside of her mouth, it was very nasty.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Make sure to wear gloves when ever you handle them, incase it is soremouth. People can get it also.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

If it is sore mouth... I just found something that works like magic to clear it up!! I've only tried it on one goat, but it really worked. Get a tube of Today or Tomorrow (I think it is meant for mastitis) from a farm store and put some all over the scabs. We saw huge improvement the next day and after 3 days it is completely gone! This doe had had soremouth for weeks and weeks and nothing else worked!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

huh... makes sense. ill have to keep that in mind the next time someone calls asking about what to do for an animal with sore mouth


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

This morning the does'mouth is swollen doubly and the smell is awful. Smells like stinky wound infection. My regular vet is not in. Only vet in is about 6 months put of vet school and does mostly small animal. HELP! I don't think this is sore mouth. Did not see any wounds from snake bite. Can't see her tongue due to her pulling it back and swelling. Can't get a hold very well due to gloves. May just give pen anyway. This smells horrible!


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

May have husband hold get so I can check for access, since that is sorry of what it smells like. Still doesn't explain swelling.


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

I gave her a shot of Pen, because I'm sure there is infection with the smell. I also gave banamine for pain and swelling. Posting pics. Sorry of looks like giant abscess in her lip to me. Thoughts?


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## surveyman (Jan 19, 2013)

Here are some pictures of the goat.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

OH LORD.... Get a vet out! That is a baaaad infection!


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## surveyman (Jan 19, 2013)

Can't get the vet out. My vet is not on right now. The only vet on right now is only out of vet school by 6 months and deals mostly in small animals. I'm not in any way confident that she can handle this. No other vets in the area can handle goats. It's the situation of when my vet is not the one on call, I'm on my own. I have his personal cell number, but I only want to use that in an extreme emergency and on really nice goats. I don't want to take advantage.


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## surveyman (Jan 19, 2013)

This infection seems similar to that of another goat in this forum titled "goat with bad foot". This infection after many vet appointments and procedures is still not resolved. I really think these two incidences are related. These two goats have NEVER been together though. I need to find out what is causing these infections so that I don't have any more come down with this. Please HELP!


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

Even if she is not "a really nice goat", she is suffering and needs treatment. I would be calling any and all vets withing a 100 mile radius if she were mine. Poor girl.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Your doe looks very ganted up like she isn't drinking or eating well. Have you checked her for dehydration? If you pinch a little skin, pull it up then let go. It should snap right back into place, if it doesn't she is dehydrated and needs fluids ASAP. If she can not drink you will need to get some lactated ringers to give her fluids Sub Q.

Sore mouth is caused by a virus and generally has to run its course, but giving antibiotics can help prevent secondary infection. Kind of like with pink eye, how you treat the eyes to prevent infection, but have to let the pink eye virus run its course.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thats sore mouth, and its so wonderful it hits the old girls the worse. I did not call a vet on my girl, wet her food, your doing great on the pen. When crossroad told me about the tomorrow it makes sooooo much sense. We used it on a rattle snake bite on a dog and cut her heal time in half, go ahead and I would give that a shot. I think its a good idea for the pain shot, I know my old lady was hating life. If you go to the feed store they should have a bag of alfalfa hay that the grind up and put molases on, That should work great for her to eat. I dont even think if you did take her to the vet they could do anything for her other then antibiotics. And also with infections like this I would be giving her shots IM, I hate IM but it hits the system faster. I think the biggest thing to watch for is to make sure she drinks, you can go a long time with no food but water is different.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

She is very very skinny... you might want to syringe some water into her and look at her eyelids. 

She looks like she needs to gain about 30 pounds, really. I would get her on some alfalfa when she gets better.


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

I will reiterate one more time-THERE IS NO AVAILABLE GOAT VET NOW! We all know a vet who does not know anything about goats is worse than no vet at all. 

Working on getting her hydrated. She is eating grain and hay. I gave both meds subQ. Does sore mouth usually have a horrible smell? The girls we have had with it before it did not smell and it had almost wart looking spots. There are no bumps. Just pus and swelling. Wish there was a smell sharing button. Thanks for all advice.


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

Also, this goat was not thin day before yesterday.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I know what your talking about, yes its sore mouth but has also turned into a very very bad infection, my oldest goat was just like yours and was a bit 'nicer' the younger they were. Keep her on the pen, I was just telling you what I would and did do, and that was give the shots IM so it would hit the system faster. Im not saying this is nothing, it sucks, but your in the same boat I was at the time, no vet, just do the best you can, mine pulled trew after a few weeks, but you need to keep that pen. up. Im trying to remember what all I did for mine, I think I put molasses in her water, not a whole lot just to kinda make it a treat to drink. I also put listerine (sp check, mouth wash lol) the best I could on it. I cant remember what it was called but its a antibiotic past stuff, its in the horse section, black jar yellow lid, that stuff is awsome. I think thats for the most part it. And yes she is going to look like crap right now since she does not feel good and is not eating like she should be, once she gets over this she will put the weight back on.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Just because there is not a goat vet, doesn't mean you can't call the vet out! You need some meds, anti-biotics, _now_
and you need a vet scrip for those.... Call the vet.


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks Jessica. That makes it more clear. She seemed much better tonight. I think the banamine eased the pain enough for her to drink on her own. She was completely rehydrated and didn't look quite as ribby. I think I will continue with banamine as well as pen. I know banamine can be hard on the tummy, but I think its the lesser of two evils right now.

Any old vet is not ever a good choice! You wouldn't take your child to the eye doctor when they have a cavity. I wohope any good goat owner would have a stock of any meds that could potentially be needed on hand, prescription or not. I have heard too many dog vets give advice that Saad not only incorrect, but could have been lethal for a goat. So no, I will not ever call any vet and I don't recommend it to anyone else.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

I can see the need for a vet but I also agree that a bad vet often makes it worse. Years ago we had a mobile vet come out to check on a goat that we knew had a very serious case of phenomena. The vet, mostly a pet vet, says, "Well it could be that but I think it maybe a throat irritation". And then charged us 200 for the visit and 10 times the normal amount for medications... which of course she didnt get right.

This doe had such a bad case of phenomena that if you wiggled her you could hear the liquid slash in her lungs.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Glad she's feeling a little better. I would keep up the banamine for a few days until the swelling is gone, then just give as needed after that.


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## apples (Jun 12, 2013)

OMG you poor thing <3
So much advise what to do?
I have none for you on this, but i would just like to say; i think you are great, the love & care you are showing the goat is above & beyond.
God bless you both


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## louandotis (Aug 12, 2013)

Cats can't get soremouth, can they?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ive never heard that a cqt can get it. I've had sore mouth here for years now and I wayyyyyy too many cats and none has ever got it.


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## louandotis (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks!!


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## odonada (Jul 25, 2013)

louandotis said:


> Cats can't get soremouth, can they?


http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/mouth/c_ct_Gingivostomatitis#.Ugut39LVBXk

i knew a cat that had stomatitis... had to have all its teeth pulled, but she lived happily ever after


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I want to share something I learned here for my soremouth treatment. Use Campho-phenique on it. We had a really severe case with our fair sheep. The vet came for another reason and knew she was coming back in two days to do their health check. She said there was no way it would be cleared up enough to pass. 

Well, when she came back I had been using the Campho- phenique for three days. It was completely healed. The vet was so impressed! She said she would never have believed me if she hadn't seen it herself. The only thing left was the hairless patches just above her lips.

Dani on here gave me this advice- very good advice if I say so myself. Thanks!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No I 100% agree about had vets. My all time favorite doe is dead because of a stupid vet....and to make it worse he was a lied to me about how she died said she bled to death but when I showed up to get her body there was not a large amount of blood...I know he gave her too much of the stuff to knock her out. I even for a long time said I would shoot any animal that I couldn't fix then take to a vet. I feel soooo blessed with the vet I have now. He's not 100% goat smart but he doesn't put down any concerns I have he will work around them. I even did loose a doe after taking her to him but he was up front and honest about her. If he ever retired I would probably go back to the putting down myself thought......good thing he's fairly young lol


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

Goats are so sensitive to anesthesia. So sorry to hear that. some people just don't get that, but I'm sure they will experience it one day if they aren't cautious. Thanks again for the advice.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

That could be the really bad variety of sore mouth.. It looks extreme. You are right to start antibiotics as she must have an infection started from this. You will have to be really diligent to get fluids down this goat and food. This goat is probably in too much pain to eat. Also needs all sorts of vitamins .. and if you have no access to bshots .. get some mollasses.. nutra drench.. probios .. something down her to give her energy.. You can't go wrong at this time getting food nutrients and liquid into her at this time. So now.. if it is sore mouth.. be prepared to see it pop up in all your herd. There is not a lot to prevent that now to the others but you need to try to prevent & treat secondary infections and keep fluids in.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Maybe someone can help with advice on what to give the others that maybe about to get sore mouth also.. I don't know how accurate this is but ... copper defficiency has supposedly encouraged the sore mouth (Orf) virus to take over a weaker goats system quicker and harder. If the others are treated with good safe amounts of minerals and copper ... perhaps there is a chance that the rest will not get it as badly. 
I am sorry you are going through this.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Now, don't get me wrong...I love my vet. But, when I had to bring a doe in for an emergency c-section, if I hadn't been there during the operation, I believe she would have died. They got her on the "gas" and she was anesthetized, they were all working on the surgery...but...nobody was monitoring her respiration...I thought "she's not breathing", so I went over and increased the oxygen...she took a breath...I increased a little more and she was then breathing ok. Then she moved a little and I increased the gas. Now, I do have some experience with this, in a Dental aspect, but, not an expert for sure.

So, from now on if my goats need surgery, I will absolutely be in the room with them.

I see you have had good advice, that is a secondary infection in her mouth. The antibiotic should help that. I have used campho phenique before...seems it's an old remedy that we have forgotten about.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Speaking of euthanasia....I have often wondered how "humane" it really is....I mean, if it's an animal you have to crate up,load up, travel, unload,uncrate get into the office (where they are all terrified usually) and THEN give a shot?....never made sense to me....home done jobs seem more humane to me.

My brother has the right idea for his dog...he's 13 now but when he gets bad, he plans to have a bunch of his dog's favorite people around and have a vet come out and give the shot while he is with all his favorite people.That's humane.

Or even give it some of it's favorite food and "dispatch" it without it seeing it coming....that's humane. 

Sorry to run off topic....just got to thinkin'


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

NyGoatMom said:


> Speaking of ....I have often wondered how "humane" it really is....I mean, if it's an animal you have to crate up,load up, travel, unload,uncrate get into the office (where they are all terrified usually) and THEN give a shot?....never made sense to me....home done jobs seem more humane to me.
> 
> My brother has the right idea for his dog...he's 13 now but when he gets bad, he plans to have a bunch of his dog's favorite people around and have a vet come out and give the shot while he is with all his favorite people.That's humane.
> 
> ...


euthanasia as in put down??? I will NEVER do that to one of my animals. A friend had the vet come put to put her horse down I had to put my friend in the car and get her out of there. That horse screamed and flopped Around. I have had 2 goats so far that needs to be put down. I put some grain in front of them told them they were good girls walked behind them and shot them. No pain no stress. 
Any how I am wondering how your girl is doing??? And yes you will have sore mouth from now on. At first I tried to keep ones that came down with it away from everyone else but now it is what it is. Just watch very young kids and as you now know anyone with some age to them. It always shows its ugly head around here when it turns really hot or really cold. Have read that extream weather conditions seem to trigger another out break.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> euthanasia as in put down??? I will NEVER do that to one of my animals. A friend had the vet come put to put her horse down I had to put my friend in the car and get her out of there. That horse screamed and flopped Around. I have had 2 goats so far that needs to be put down. I put some grain in front of them told them they were good girls walked behind them and shot them. No pain no stress.
> Any how I am wondering how your girl is doing??? And yes you will have sore mouth from now on. At first I tried to keep ones that came down with it away from everyone else but now it is what it is. Just watch very young kids and as you now know anyone with some age to them. It always shows its ugly head around here when it turns really hot or really cold. Have read that extream weather conditions seem to trigger another out break.


yes, I agree with home euthanasia....much kinder!

I don't know if you were talking to me but I have no soremouth here! Thankfully!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Sounds like that vet was an idiot. Had our vet put down two older does earlier this year. They were asleep in 10-15 seconds and dead in 30.


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> Sounds like that vet was an idiot. Had our vet put down two older does earlier this year. They were asleep in 10-15 seconds and dead in 30.


I agree vet was a idiot I had to have my dog whom I loved more than anything put down and she went very peacefully after the shot quiet at home in my arms I wouldn't have it any other way


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ive had to put down three goats in my 8 years..I had my vet do it...he first gives them something to relax them..they get real drowsy and relaxed..he gently helps them lay down... then once they were relaxed he gave the other meds all the while soothing and talking to them..its always very peaceful and humane..any vet that cant take the time to go the extra mile to make it as stress free as possible shouldn't be allowed to do it...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

http://www.jackmauldin.com/sore_mouth.html

This link shares how using today/tomorrow mastisis treatment worked for sore mouth..he had a few bad cases as your little gal...Im glad the banamine helps..it is hard on the liver...but lots of fluid to help flush will be helpful..right now she needed relief. 
Keeping her well hydrated and fed is hard when they mouth hurts. If she still struggles to eat..soak alfalfa pellets until mushy and drench with turkey baster..add Yogurt for a bit of probiotics ... with that bad of a case of sore mouth I would also be giving Pen G for 5-7 days just to help her immune system fight secondary infections and Daily B complex to keep her interested in eating and energy....(sorry if any of this has already been mentioned, I honestly just skimmed the whole post) 
Best wishes


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## JanaY (Jun 25, 2013)

My old girl is fine. Antibiotics took away they infection. Once that was gone it was apparent it was just sore mouth. Have my own home remedy for sore mouth. I think everyone has one. Most of my herd had already been exposed to sore mouth, so I put her back with the herd. No one else turned up with it. Yay! Good to know we have some immunity since we will start "making kids" soon. She is still on the thinner side, but the put old girl doesn't have much for front teeth. She is hydrated and seems very happy munching away with the rest of the herd.

Thanks for the help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

glad she is better


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Glad she's doing better. There is a vaccine for sore mouth says it can be used in goats. Kind of an odd way to give a vaccine though as you have to scarify the area first and then brush the dose on the area. Might be a good idea for you to use it though, especially in your kids so they do not get it. http://www.colorado-serum.com/csc/ovine_ectmya.html


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ptgoats45 said:


> Glad she's doing better. There is a vaccine for sore mouth says it can be used in goats. Kind of an odd way to give a vaccine though as you have to scarify the area first and then brush the dose on the area. Might be a good idea for you to use it though, especially in your kids so they do not get it. http://www.colorado-serum.com/csc/ovine_ectmya.html


I looked into that as well. I was going to order some but decided to talk to the vet first. Its a live virous and is only good for a few hours after you mix the powder and liquid. I wanna say it comes in 50 doses. I decided not to do it since I don't kid all my does at one time. I have kids all threw the year so would have to buy a bottle a month just for a few kids. If someone does already have sore mouth and has all their does kid at once I think that's a great idea. Just thought I would share how the vac. Works 

So happy your girl is doing better. Yes its so hard on them especially when it turns into a infection. Just give her some extras and shell be back to normal soon


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh.. yeah! I am so glad that she is doing better. And Yes... maybe your herd has an immunity to it and will not get it. I have read a lot on this sore mouth issue. There appears to be so many varieties and degrees to this virus. I would not want to vaccinate at all with the virus as it is a 'live' virus that you are vaccinating with.. and you have to be very careful with it not to get it on yourself. Any contagious 'live' virus makes me nervous. Once the scabs drop on your property, they are there for the next year as well and this virus evidentally will 'burn' itself out getting less & less of a punch. I personally won't bother vaccinating for it but we don't have show or fair animals.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have had sore mouth for 5 years now.....for me it never goes away but only the new kids or goats end up getting it not everyone. So I think sine I have nice fresh little scabs every year to infect again I will never be over it.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Jessica84.. perhaps the virus will eventually burn itself out on your property, but it may take a while for that.


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## louandotis (Aug 12, 2013)

My vet and breeder are arguing over what this is, my vet doesnt know and the breeder says it's soremouth on the hoof. Does anybody know?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That looks like Interdigital Dermititis and it IS contagious to your other goats and sheep. 

Start by washing with an anti-fungal Iodine based scrub such as surgical scub. Treat with Copper-tox in the evening and tea tree oil in the morning and afternoon. Keep it as clean as possible, dry, and open to the air. 

It's a difficult disease caused by a soil living bacteria. We see it often on dairy farms where the ground is moist.


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## louandotis (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks so much, Ill try that!


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