# 1st baby goats - urgent question...



## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

About 10:00 last night we went out to check on our goats and found that our pg doe had had twins - we're not sure exactly when, but they were still pretty wet and mucousy, so we're assuming it hadn't been very long. 

We knew she was pg, but had our timing wrong apparently - we weren't expecting them quite yet. These are our first goat babies and we're not positive we're doing things quite right.

We dried them and brought all three into a warm spot in the garage, spread with thick layers of straw, set up a heater nearby - which we're not sure is totally necessary, it's pretty warm in there anyway, but we wanted to be sure. Mama has water, hay and we've been giving her some grain when we visit. 

She's been very attentive and both babies seem extremely active and seem moreso every time we check on them. Our worry though is that we haven't seen them eat much. Last night we saw the little buck attach himself for about 30seconds to a minute, but we haven't seen the doe actually attach at all. They were making sucking noises, sucking our fingers, etc, and headbutting mom everywhere. 

We didn't watch them every minute...Mom is not particularly friendly (we haven't had her very long) and these aren't her first babies, so we thought everything might be better if we gave them space. We did get a few squirts out of her teats, just to make sure they weren't blocked. 

This a.m. we still haven't seen them feed, but they don't seem interested either - but very active. We milked a tiny bit and put it to their mouth, also put their mouth right to the teats and squirted milk on. They just fought us. Licked at the colostrum on our fingers, but didn't seem very intersted. More intersted in toddling around and being groomed. 

Should I be very worried? My guess, just from handling other animals and babies, is that they'd already eaten and weren't hungry anymore. This just based on everyone seeming normal and attentive with fairly high energy levels. Also, on milking a little out of mom now, the milk is more white and a little thinner - not yellow and thick (like colostrum) - so maybe that also points towards them already feeding? 

Please tell me if we've got this wrong and should be forcing some down them. Or how long we should take - what we should look for - before we worry. They're so tiny, I'm scared to death at the idea of forcing the tube thing down their throats like one article told me too - I've done it with horses and it was kinda awful - these guys are so tiny (nigerian dwarfs) that I'm afraid of hurting them. 

Also, what we read was to cut the umbilical cord to 6" and dip it in iodine. By the time we got to it, Mom had already chewed it that far, so we just did the dip. Mom is still chewing away on them pretty regularly - but they're just hanging there...it just looks gross, but are we really supposed to do nothing else with that? (Oh - they're about 4" not 6, btw...I figured with these tiny ones it was ok though since all the articles seem to be for regular sized goats). 

I'd love some advice. Thanks. 
PS - I can't even believe how adorable they are!


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## ProctorHillFarm (May 15, 2008)

If they are very active and content, I would say they are doing just fine!
Also you can feel their little bellies- if they are empty it will be very obvious, if they are nice and full you have no worries!

The umbilical cord will be fine- if you dipped it- it will dry up and fall off in about a week or so 

Congrats on your first babies- arent they great?!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

congrats on the new babies.

if mom is experienced and the kids are active and happy with full bellies then I wouldnt worry about not seeing them nurse right now. 


welcome to TGS :wave:


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

It sounds like you have done everything right. This was my first year and I am right there with you, it is a fun journey. Just feel their bellys they may not look full but when you feel you can tell they just ate. Good luck and have fun.


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you - I'll just keep watching them then. You've made me feel better about it all. 

Yep - they're amazing!


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## SterlingAcres (Oct 19, 2009)

Congrats on the new babies! From their energy levels, I'd say you're just not seeing them, but they're nursing. If they were starving, they'd be lethargic. 

Post pictures when you figure it out! And welcome to TGS


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats on the new babies... :greengrin:



> if mom is experienced and the kids are active and happy with full bellies then I wouldnt worry about not seeing them nurse right now.


I agree with Stacey... :wink: 
feel there bellies at the flank area.... if it is loose then they are not getting enough... if it is tight they are OK... :thumbup:

Also if you milk out a 12cc syringe for each kid and give it to them....you will know that they got enough colostrum.... plunge it to them slowly.... at the back corner of there mouth....


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Sounds like you are taking very good care of these babies! 

One bit of advice though... if mom is standoffish... then you should be holding,petting,talking to and rubbing and scratching those babies a few times a day... or just sitting right in the middle of their antics and letting them investigate you...if you don't then mom will teach them to be standoffish too... then you will just have a bunch of adorable kids that you can't catch..... not fun! :- ( 

Congrats on the kids... can't wait to see pictures!


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Well, now we've seen them eating and they seem plenty enthusiastic about it.  

Thank you all for your advice. Mom is actually acting more kindly towards us than she ever has...is that usual? Babies are being played with a lot and as soon as it warms up here a bit, we'll definitely start working with these new goats on a more individual basis and see if we can't gain some trust from them. 

Now my question is...how long do we have to keep these 3 in the garage? It's been 'warm' up here (northern MN) lately - but that means it's been in the 20s every day. It almost never gets above freezing. We don't have a barn - we have a small, insulated goat shed that I'm sure is warm once they're all piled into it - but I can't add tiny babies to the pile. Where we've figured we'd put babies, mom and probably one other female (for warmth and company) is in what actually used to be a large dog kennel - the links are small enough that babies can't get through or get their heads stuck. We actually have a role of chain link to make a large 'baby yard' this Spring - but posts are definitely not going to go in the ground before that. We have a big doghouse that will comfortably, but snuggly fit these 4 in it, we can stack straw bales and snow around it for insulation and fill it with straw inside... 

We've also thought of maybe just bringing babies inside with us at night (when it's coldest) - bottle feeding them in am and milking mom...then letting them out with her for the day. 

Any opinions/advice about when this would be ok? 

I feel like I sound so irresponsible - we just really hadn't wanted/planned on babies until Spring. We've got all kinds of supplies out there under the snow to get things set up then...and all kinds of books we're still planning on reading + the names of a few (very few though, unfortunately) of 'real life' goat people that we'd planned to charm into befriending us and answer our questions. We just thought we'd have more time.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Welcome to the crazy world of goats and you are doing every thing right including the worry about babies; it comes with the territory heheh.

Now listen those babies are tougher than they appear. If Mama Doe is taking care of them I wouldnt bottle feed the kids OR bring them in the house. 
From what you are describing it sounds like they all are doing great! 
To bring them inside the ppl barn is just going to mess with their acclimation.

I have had does that were not real ppl friendly but after kidding get real lovey dovey. A few yrs ago I had birth flluids all over me, put her babies in my lap for a bit and that doe started rubbing & licking my face along with the kids. 
To this day she still does it if I lean over, even if there are no kids.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If they are strong and suckling well...with full tummies ..they should be OK ...in your insulated goat shed ...have plenty of bedding for them.... 
I would keep babies and mom together....not separate them at night...she may start to disown them....  

I would try to put something around the pen ...so the babies can't go through...maybe try wood panels or sheets of wood.. ...to go around the bottom...or something ..in that aspect.... maybe drill holes.. in the sheeted wood to be able to tie them down... so they won't fall over...

You are not irresponsible at all ...if you were... you wouldn't be asking questions here on TGS...........so don't think that way.... :hug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well I would try them outside in a day or two and put sweaters on them (tube socks or a old sweatshirt sleeve works that or a puppy sweater). See how they do and then if they seem fine - not shivering or acting cold - then put them in the warm shelter at night and they should be fine. Goats are hardier then you think. 

I would first take off the heat so tehy can get use to the normal temp of the barn and then do the outside thing with the sweaters. Slow transitions


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all for everything! 
Babies still seem healthy and happy - I'm trying to attach a picture, but apparently my file size is too big...working on figuring it out!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

size need to be no more then 430X430 pix (can be smaller of course )

so glad to hear everyone is doing well


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is terrific they are still doing well..... :thumbup: hope you can get the pics up.... I'd love to see them.. :hug: :greengrin:


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

an easy way to tell if a baby has eaten or not is to put your finger in its mouth - their mouths are always moist and warm when they have fed, but usually cold if they havent. 

LW


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Giving the pic another try...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh my they are so adorable!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Aww...I knew they would be really cute.... :wink: :greengrin:


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## jberter (Jan 21, 2010)

Such cute & sweet little faces, whats not to love. CONGRATS,,, :stars:


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## farmergal (Jun 19, 2009)

Congrats!! They are so adorable, love that little white face with freckles on the one on the left  You must be so proud of your doe.

And I agree with everyone who said you are in NO way irresponsible! You are worrying and asking lots of questions and that is a sure sign of someone who cares about their goats


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## nutmegfarm (Dec 23, 2009)

ADORABLE!!! Congrats Looks like everyone is doing fine!

http://nutmegfarm.webs.com/


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## Anna (Oct 17, 2007)

ok so I have a bit of a nose fettish, but look at the beautiful little pink nose on the left kid!!!! oh goodness!So cute!


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## Seven Dwarfs (Jan 17, 2010)

Congratulations! They are adorable! I am beginning to think all of us goat people go through the same thing with their first babies and eating. When my first twins were born, I didnt see them eat the first 2 days. I put them to the teat and they acted like they wanted to eat. I was so worried that I went out and bought replacer for them. Untill I talked to my goat people neighbor who assured me as long as their bellys felt round, and they had energy. They were eating. I think they were being sneaky just so I would worry. lol Mamma was experienced with kids, a big plus. Have fun with your new little ones!


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## KGW Farms (Nov 25, 2009)

Congrats!!!!!


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all! They seem to be doing great, though we had a big wind/rain/sleet/snow storm followed by a drastic drop in temps, so they're still in the garage. Hopefully it'll warm up to something more reasonable soon and we can get them out to the pen I've gotten ready for them...though I have to shovel it all out again as this wind seems to dump a load of snow into it every time it blows! 

They're getting 'dis-budded' on Thursday - not looking forward to that AT ALL! Yuck. But I am grateful to have found someone willing to do it this time and show us how. Thank Gosh for the county extension office - we just don't know any 'real life' goat people!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh my they are cute! Congrats! I'm glad to hear momma and babies are doing well.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh thats real good - I do disbudding for people but I dont advertise much for it so unless people know me directly they wouldnt know. I am glad this was not the case for you


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Looks like you are caught, hook line and sinker.

What adorable babies. 

Just wanted to tell you what I do with my babies. I let the new mom's and babies out the day after they are born if it is going to be a nice day, (no wind or snow). I let my new babies out yesterday to enjoy the sun and be able to jump around and just have fun, and it was only 29 degrees, but I did NOT let them out today because they say it will be snowing before I get home tonight and they are a bit to small in my opinion to be in the snow, now the ones that were born in December and early Jan are big and they can control their own body heat. I do not lock them up at night either, they are outside sleeping under the stars, but tonight with the snow I lock everyone up.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

so happy they are doing great.... :hi5: :clap: :greengrin:


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all! 

Sweetgoats - I can't imagine days without snow in the winter, lol! I mean, I can, because I have lived in another part of the country - but up here we have a few feet that's there pretty permanently on the ground from mid-December till the end of March or so (at least) and then any snowing or melting that goes on happens above that for the most part, unless we get some strange wave of extreme weather! 
29 would feel balmy at the moment - if it suddenly hit 29 degrees here and you drove through our town, I guaruntee you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone with a coat on!  It's -5 right now, before the windchill - and that wind is blowing crazy hard at the moment, so it probably drops it down to at least -15 or so. Thank you for sharing how you handle it though...after this, hopefully we can keep kidding happening in the early Spring and then we should be able to be better about getting them out there faster.  

We've been trying to let them out of their little penned up area to bounce around the garage - which is SOOO fun to watch. I just can't wait to get them outside where they can do more. They're so funny - they want to butt heads too, but they're not quite sure or coordinated about it, so they boing at each other really fast, maybe rear up a little...then slowly and softly touch their foreheads together - and then go BOINGING off. It almost looks like someone else is controlling the springs and they have nothing to do with how,where or when they go off. 

I am really having a blast with this! We got our first (and only until now) little doeling at 6wks - but that was a couple of years ago and I just forgot exactly how adorable she was, and to have two who are able to play with each other is just so much better!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

They are addicting. They are like Potato chips. You can't have just one. :ROFL: :slapfloor:


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

You may have "garage babies" for awhile, lol. I'm from Iowa so I know what you are talking about "mid-western winters". If you can get them "natural" light occasionally, that would be good for your babies. I have an old portable dog pen that I put in the yard they can play in during "nicer" sunny days. Good luck, they are very cute!


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## Kaia (Jan 20, 2010)

I think they're going out tomorrow - if it gets too cold, we'll just have to bring them back in. Mom went back out with the others while we took babies to be disbudded (which wasn't 1/100th as bad as I was anticipating - thank God!) and she seemed happy to be out for awhile - though not so happy when we didn't let the babies follow her.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I was really "freaking out" when I disbudded my first kids. We did them pretty well, then the second season we must have gotten "wimpy" and we got some scurs. Last time we did them earlier and they were perfect, no scurs at all. So, when you start to do them yourself, be brave, remind yourself that it's much easier to "do it right" then to have to "do it over"! :thumbup:


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