# Pellet feed?



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

Hello all! New to goats here.

I have 2 Boer/Alpine cross doelings that are weaned and just shy of 4 months old. I feed them free-choice grass hay, free-choice loose minerals and they have timed access to pasture and woods (they love eating young Sumac trees!). I was feeding them Nature's Best Organic Goat Pellets, but noticed that their poo was clumping. I checked them for worms and parasites, that came back negative, so I let their grain run out and after 3 days grain-free their poo is back to nice loose pellets. 

My question is, what is a good non-grain/pellet diet for growing goats? Is what I'm already feeding them good enough or do they need something more, like Alfalfa? If it matters, they are mostly used as companions for my QH mare, but I would like to breed them in the future.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unless you have alfalfa in your pasture, you will want to add alfalfa pellets. They need some calcium in that diet.


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

I


ksalvagno said:


> Unless you have alfalfa in your pasture, you will want to add alfalfa pellets. They need some calcium in that diet.


Is there a specific ratio it should be fed as, or free-choice like the hay?


----------



## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

SJC said:


> I
> 
> Is there a specific ratio it should be fed as, or free-choice like the hay?


I would not do it free choice.
Not sure on the ratio though.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Many people here do alfalfa pellets free choice. They gradually increase it until they are able to stop eating when they are full. They don't just give them gobs all at once, and that is an important step when you don't offer free choice from the beginning.

Instead of free choice alfalfa pellets, may I suggest a protein tub or a protein block instead? I can offer a few options in that if you'd be at all interested.

You can still offer alfalfa pellets as well, because of the calcium


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Many people here do alfalfa pellets free choice. They gradually increase it until they are able to stop eating when they are full. They don't just give them gobs all at once, and that is an important step when you don't offer free choice from the beginning.
> 
> Instead of free choice alfalfa pellets, may I suggest a protein tub or a protein block instead? I can offer a few options in that if you'd be at all interested.


I'm very interested. I'd like to learn about as many options as possible and see which works best for my girls.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

These are all available at TSC. If you'd like something from somewhere else that's just fine. You can compare to what is mentioned here.
Protein blocks
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-goat-block-333-lb?cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-sheep--amp-goat-block-333-lbs?cm_vc=-10005
The above are very crumbly. They MUST be protected from the weather, or being climbed upon
Protein Tubs safe for goats (NO UREA)
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...urpose-protein-tub-125-lb?solr=1&cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-16-protein-tub-200-lb?solr=1&cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/prairie-pride-goat-protein-pail-18-lb?cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/equine-choice-turnout-333-lb?cm_vc=-10005


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> These are all available at TSC. If you'd like something from somewhere else that's just fine. You can compare to what is mentioned here.
> Protein blocks
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-goat-block-333-lb?cm_vc=-10005
> 
> ...


The crumble blocks and Prairie pail interest me most. These are offered free-choice? They won't overeat it?


----------



## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

SJC said:


> The crumble blocks and Prairie pail interest me most. These are offered free-choice? They won't overeat it?


Yes.
But you should slowly introduce it first.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

@mariarose great suggestion. 

@healthyishappy you too!


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I offer free choice. I do not restrict access.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

It’s not a pellet or a sweet feed. It’s licks here and there, and they know it isn’t a treat, it is a supplement that they take as much as they need of.


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

Thanks so much for all the help! I'm heading to TSC now. I hope my girls will be happy, they've been upset since I took the pellets away lol


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> It's not a pellet or a sweet feed. It's licks here and there, and they know it isn't a treat, it is a supplement that they take as much as they need of.


So, I've been giving them the Protein Pail and I don't think it's working for them. The larger of the two eats at it constantly and both are now suffering from diarrhea. I've been limiting their access to the pail to 1 hour every day to see if they were simply over-eating, but still they get diarrhea.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SJC said:


> So, I've been giving them the Protein Pail and I don't think it's working for them. The larger of the two eats at it constantly and both are now suffering from diarrhea. I've been limiting their access to the pail to 1 hour every day to see if they were simply over-eating, but still they get diarrhea.


Have you gotten a fecal test done?


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Have you gotten a fecal test done?


Yes. Both are negative for any parasites.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SJC said:


> Yes. Both are negative for any parasites.


When did you introduce the protein tub, when did the diarrhea start, and when did you take it away and is it still going on?


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> When did you introduce the protein tub, when did the diarrhea start, and when did you take it away and is it still going on?


I bought the tub about 2 weeks ago and gave it to them that evening, leaving it in overnight. By morning, the pen was covered in loose stool. I immediately removed the tub and began offering it an hour at a time, but that didn't seem to help so I've now been offering it every other day for a few hours. Doesn't seem to be helpings, so I may have to remove it completely. I'm just at a loss of how to feed them since pellet feed made their poo clump and the pail is giving them diarrhea.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

SJC said:


> I bought the tub about 2 weeks ago and gave it to them that evening, leaving it in overnight. By morning, the pen was covered in loose stool. I immediately removed the tub and began offering it an hour at a time, but that didn't seem to help so I've now been offering it every other day for a few hours. Doesn't seem to be helpings, so I may have to remove it completely. I'm just at a loss of how to feed them since pellet feed made their poo clump and the pail is giving them diarrhea.


Well I would stop it completely and see what happens.

That's quite odd that all protein/grains are making them have digestive troubles. Maybe there is a common ingredient they don't do well with?


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Well I would stop it completely and see what happens.
> 
> That's quite odd that all protein/grains are making them have digestive troubles. Maybe there is a common ingredient they don't do well with?


I'll definitely look into that possibility! Luckily I still have the bags/labels for the feeds I've used with them up to now. I suppose just free-feed grass hay, loose minerals and browsing is going to have to be good enough until I can figure this out.


----------



## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

SJC said:


> I'll definitely look into that possibility! Luckily I still have the bags/labels for the feeds I've used with them up to now. I suppose just free-feed grass hay, loose minerals and browsing is going to have to be good enough until I can figure this out.


Once the loose stools have gone, try alfalfa pellets maybe a cup morning and night to start then up it by half a cup every couple days until you can give them free access to it. It's got the calcium and protein they need and will help balance things out for you. My goats didn't do well with the pails either, but a friend swears by them. Different strokes for different goats.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It's the molasses.

If you take it away completely their systems should rebalance, but you can help it rebalance more quickly and surely by giving a dose of Probios after you remove the molasses based tub.

Then I'd offer some alfalfa, as first suggested, if you can find some.

They shouldn't stand there and constantly eat the bucket. They might be eating out of boredom or just because it is something different or something.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

SJC said:


> I bought the tub about 2 weeks ago and gave it to them that evening, leaving it in overnight. By morning, the pen was covered in loose stool. I immediately removed the tub and began offering it an hour at a time, but that didn't seem to help so I've now been offering it every other day for a few hours. Doesn't seem to be helpings, so I may have to remove it completely. I'm just at a loss of how to feed them since pellet feed made their poo clump and the pail is giving them diarrhea.


When I started mine on protein pails they had loose stool to. Any big changed in diet will cause it . I gave it a few days and it cleared up.


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

Honey21 said:


> When I started mine on protein pails they had loose stool to. Any big changed in diet will cause it . I gave it a few days and it cleared up.


That's what I assumed at first, but it's been two weeks and they still have straight diarrhea. I give them probiotics everyday as well, but it isn't helping the stool issue.


----------



## Honey21 (Jan 26, 2014)

SJC said:


> That's what I assumed at first, but it's been two weeks and they still have straight diarrhea. I give them probiotics everyday as well, but it isn't helping the stool issue.


I also don't feed any grain and that was the only change so in your case I don't know.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

It could be molasses. I would try alfalfa pellets starting really slowly at very small rates after their diarrhea has stopped.

My internet connection is about to go down from a bad storm we’re having. More recommendations for your goats when it’s working again.


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Okay I'm back.

I would also try to give them some digestive support/gut cleanse herbs. One or both of these would be good to get the back on track.

_Digestive_System_Support_16_oz.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.firmeadowllc.com/store/p811/GI_Soother_Digestive_System_Support_16_oz.html

https://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/product/gi-back-on-tract/


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, it is the molasses. They aren't supposed to stand there and continually eat it. Take it completely away so that they can get their systems back under control.

It'll be OK.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Put the protein tub hundreds of feet from their normal loafing area


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

I removed the pail last night. They don't seem to be behaving ill (still running about, yelling at me with gusto). The diarrhea was still present this evening, but I suppose it takes a bit of time. Probiotics in their water, tons of hay and timed foraging. 

From all the reading I've been doing on feeding goats I'm getting unclear answers. In your opinions, is it safe and healthy to simply feed goats grass hay, loose minerals (plus a copper dose once per year), foraging (when in season) and then alfalfa pellets? No special goat-formulated grains/protein tubs needed? The people who originally sold the kids to me had them fully weaned at 6 weeks which led to serious health issues (I made a post about this back then) and told me I only needed to feed hay and minerals. Obviously I've since learned that they clearly just wanted money with little care for the animals' welfare.


----------



## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I can only tell you what I do, not what you need to do.
My goats are pets, I want them to be healthy and live long lives together. Once per day each nigi gets a cup of half alfalfa pellets and half pelletized 12% protein all-stock feed. They eat our yard and trees. I cut bamboo for them about twice per week. They eat kudzu for about three hours three days a week. 
I give them Purina Wind and Rain Sheep minerals, because we have some sheep, too. They get 5ml of Replamin Plus gel weekly and a copper bolus every 4 months, 4 gram starting this week because of sheep minerals, used to be 2 gram. I forgot, they have bermuda hay, free choice.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Slow and steady diet changes. You’ll get there. How bad is the diarrhea? Watery liquid? Cow pies? Dog logs? Color of the pop?

How you feed them depends on what you want from them, and what they are doing, and where you are. If you have does and want quads out of them plus tons of milk, then those does need large amounts of hay, water, minerals, salt, as well as concentrates. If you have wethers that live on your couch and think going out to potty is a serious workout, then they do not need any concentrates, grain, or protein tubs. 

If you live next door to an alfalfa farm, it makes sense to buy alfalfa and feed it. If you have beautiful grass hay and alfalfa costs an arm and a leg because it’s getting shipped in, then it makes sense to feed them the grass hay. 

A goat’s very basic needs are greens/hay, water, salt and minerals, and shelter. What you add beyond that depends on you, your location, and their job or their lack of a job. 

Alfalfa pellets are greens, just very rich in protein greens that are high in calcium. Protein tubs are a substitute for high protein feed, and as I understand it are very helpful for producing animals on forage, which will vary wildly in composition and nutritive value throughout the seasons, and it’s useful for productive goats whose people have Zero access to high quality hay. Maybe also for people who show meat goats??? I don’t know anything about showing meat goats.


----------



## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

I feed free access to all of the following: serecia hay, water, cobalt and iodized salt block, local mineral mix, selenium salt in a rice hulls(sawdust) carrier, and zinc salt in a rice hulls carrier. They get copper bonuses when I notice they need it (every 2-4 months, depending on the individual and how hard they are working for me at the time.)

Currently, I feed a small, measured amount of a locally milled goat all-grain feed mixed with equal parts alfalfa pellets. I’m still playing with concentrates/grains to figure out what works for ME and mine.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Hmmm, I think the goats were doing well before. What kind of browse are they getting? 
Don't waste your money on unneeded sugar, have never yet seen a goat boiling off molasses, sprouting grains, or hunting out honey bees. 
They don't malt barley, grow flax, or make wheat "by-products" .
What they do great on is transforming deep rooted plants to what they need so, let's start with what they were originally eating and go from there.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

SJC said:


> is it safe and healthy to simply feed goats grass hay, loose minerals (plus a copper dose once per year), foraging (when in season) and then alfalfa pellets?


I disagree with only once a year supplementation of copper if they need it more often, and the grass hay needs to be good quality, not "goat hay", but Yes, it is safe.


SJC said:


> No special goat-formulated grains/protein tubs needed?


If the goats get enough protein and nutrition from the quality hay and minerals, then no, they aren't needed.

as @singinggoatgirl indicated, it depends on what you are asking them to do for you and the levels of nutrition in their roughage/forage.

These requirements for what the goats are supposed to fill vary from goat owner to goat owner. So you'll get different answers just from that. ...the levels of nutrition in roughage/nutrition vary wildly across the globe and from season to season, so you'll get different answers just from that, too... And you'll have people pop up with their different ideological agendas so you'll get different answers there... or personal grudges against someone else who is saying/doing something differently so they have to be a jerk about it, so you'll get different answers from that too.

It'll be OK. You are doing fine. Only hay while they are scouring. Can you get some Probios in gel form?


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

As for their job, they are currently companions for my mare who has gone lame and can no longer trail ride. I was hoping to breed them in the future to produce either meat kids or dairy kids (they are Boer/Alpine crosses so I thought I could go either way). I don't need tons of milk or anything, I'm a tiny homestead that focuses mostly on poultry.

The grass hay I get is also purchased by the goats' veterinarian. They had it tested for nutrition and say it is very high quality, high in protein. However, we live in a Selenium deficient region so their loose minerals contain Selenium+E. 
Their browsing is a mixture of grass/weeds/woodlands. They tend to favour Sumac leaves, Pine needles, Apple leaves, and Honeysuckle leaves. 
I may be able to make a "goat garden" of sorts, if that would be good. Grow carrots, turnips, squash, etc specifically for them.

The diarrhea started off very light in colour and watery, but has deepened in colour and is turning into logs and clumping.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Your home and feeding sound wonderful. 

In your hay analysis, did you get a protein/calcium level? What kind of water do you have for them? I only ask because water sources can really affect the mineral interactions, not because I suspect you of giving polluted water.

At the surface, I don't see any problems with your goals. I have Boer/Alpine mixes myself in my herd.

BTW, sometimes all I can get is "goat hay" because everything else is all bought up. I deal with it by changing other things in their diets, up the alfalfa pellets, change the mineral mix, sprout whole grains to change the nutrition, etc. 

I wasn't criticizing your hay, only saying that if hay was all you were going to be feeding, then it needed to be quality hay.


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Hopefully I'm not one of those agenda jerks mariarose was talking about lol. I think it better to start over and make sure the added thing is the problem before adding five more things. 
The goat garden sounds great, they love roots, squash, etc. Most of it is very high in phosphorus however and they will need a calcium supplement to balance the ration.


----------



## SJC (May 12, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Your home and feeding sound wonderful.
> 
> In your hay analysis, did you get a protein/calcium level? What kind of water do you have for them? I only ask because water sources can really affect the mineral interactions, not because I suspect you of giving polluted water.
> 
> ...


I don't recall the Calcium levels, but I can ask them. For water, we recently had a well drilled since our old hand-dug well was full of iron. The drilled well is 400ft deep and crystal clear (now our showers don't smell like metal!)

The hay in my region is usually high quality since a lot of people own horses and cattle. I buy from a local farmer who takes great pride in his hay. Being friends, we are assured our share as long as he has enough to feed his own cattle.


----------

