# Help again! Should she be fatter?



## hscottom87

Should she be plumper? I'm feeding her dang near a coffee can full of 17% everyday plus a couple handfuls of Chaffhaye. She's been dewormed. She was born 1/15/13 and weighs between 30 & 35 lbs. This is our first goat to feed out for show. I'm just wondering if I should be doing something different to get the weight on her. Or maybe she's good & I'm paranoid?? Lol!


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## hscottom87

Sorry posing sucks. My husband was gone so just had 6 year old to help :/


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## TrinityRanch

She looks great, but she doesn't seem to weigh much. Our 6 week old Boers are both 35 lbs. Are you sure on her birthdate? Was she a triplet or a quad? She may be a little on the small side when it comes to size; her horns are small also.


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## Jessica84

To me she looks very healthy, just small framed. I have a few goats that no matter how much I feed will not 'buff' up. I have a trip Im saving and even though her ribs are covered with a good amount of meat still just looks small, Im thinking thats just her.


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## ThreeHavens

I'm a dairy breeder, but is she getting a good mineral? That may help  I have found a bit of beet pulp to help add weight to my thinner girls.


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## Kaneel

She is probably just a smaller doe, as she looks quite well fed to me! Is she market or breeding?
If shes breeding you may be able to up her ration, or even free-feed. Just make sure she doesn't get fat. 
If she's market you can try exercising more. But food-wise you seem to be doing quite well. Just make sure that she doesn't get too wide in the belly, won't look too nice at show.


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## Crossroads Boers

She's pretty! I'd like to see a little more lenth and width on her but I like her front and rear.  She looks about the right size... her weight is on the small side though. If possible, I would try giving her more chaffhaye and/or grain. She does look like she could use some more weight on her. You can't make a Nubian look like a Boer no matter how much you feed it. So keep in mind that a lot of how she turns out will be her genetics. She looks like a nice kid though from her front and rear, so I think she will mature into a nice doe.  

Good luck!


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## hscottom87

I'm totally guessing on weight. And I'm not a good guesser lol! Her papers say 1/15/13. She was a twin. She's actually longer than she looks in these crappy pics. The breeder & our 4H leader said she was long & tubular..whatever that means lol! She has access to minerals @ all times. 
Could I give her a b12 shot to increase appetite because she's not finishing what I do give her. I know genetics play a big role, I just want her to grow out to her full potential. 
What's difference between breeding & comnercial.


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## goatgirl132

Whats the poundage of feed Shes getting? Hay?

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## hscottom87

Is being a small doe a negative thing in the showring? Does she (so far) look like she stands a chance in the show ring? I appreciate ya'll because your so helpful & HONEST!!


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## hscottom87

It's probably equal to 6 cups. And probably a couple lbs of chaffhaye that she never finishes grrr...


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## hscottom87

***in question earlier I meant what's difference between market & breeding?


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## OwnedByTheGoats

She might just be on the small side.

I don't know hardly anything about Boers, but if she were my goat I would like to see a better topline on her. Otherwise, well, I don't know much about them! 

Wishing you very good luck in the show ring!

P.S. Love to see those muddy little pink boots.


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## goatgirl132

hscottom87 said:


> ***in question earlier I meant what's difference between market & breeding?


The difference is market is wethers you get money for them but they (usually) get butchered

Breed dosent have ALOT of money in it except some shows give mkeny to 1st 2nd and 3rd places and selling the babbies but you dont butcher

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## goatgirl132

hscottom87 said:


> It's probably equal to 6 cups. And probably a couple lbs of chaffhaye that she never finishes grrr...


You need to weigh it. She should be getting about 3lbs

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## hscottom87

What could I get to weigh her feed out?


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## hscottom87

Explain topline please & how I could improve it.


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## OwnedByTheGoats

Okay, I guess I shouldn't have written the above post. I can't really axplain anything well, so I guess I don't know anything. Nevermind about that! Sorry! I know I sound like a dork right now, to myself anyway, so please forgive me.


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## Dani-1995

She doesn't look bad. I agree on being.smaller framed, although she could catch up. Some goats are slower maturing and have late growth spurts. on another note be sure that you treat for tape worms and coccidia... both are known for stunting growth if your worried about that. 

I would like to see a little stronger top line... she seems to break behind her shoulders. She has a very pretty chest and her back leg set is good. Over all I.like her. 

You can try calf manna as an additive. Also, wheat germ oil or cocosoya oil is good for increasing appetite.... cocosoya is sweet and goats love sweet stuff. They usually like it!

ETA: The only way to know how she will.do is to show her a few times. Judging has alot to do with how they move. Also, if she is commercial (unregistered) or breeding stock (registered) also changes how they are judged.


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## Dani-1995

OwnedByTheGoats said:


> Okay, I guess I shouldn't have written the above post. I can't really axplain anything well, so I guess I don't know anything. Nevermind about that! Sorry! I know I sound like a dork right now, to myself anyway, so please forgive me.


Do you mean how she sags between her shoulder and hips? She breaks a little behind her shoulders I think... not terrible but its still considered a fault.


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## OwnedByTheGoats

Dani-1995 said:


> Do you mean how she sags between her shoulder and hips? She breaks a little behind her shoulders I think... not terrible but its still considered a fault.


Yep, that IS what I meant. I thought I was going to sound like some weirdo if I was wrong. LOL Thank you!


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## Crossroads Boers

A strong topline basically means that if you were to draw a line from her shoulders to her rump in a picture, that line should be a strait with no dip. A weak topline means her "top line" isn't strait and she either dips behind the shoulders or has a steep rump. I don't think you can improve that... it's just the way she's built.


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## goatgirl132

hscottom87 said:


> What could I get to weigh her feed out?


Do yall have a fruit scale?

Orrrr if you want to.
Bag it up and take ot to walmart or somewhere and plop it on the scale.
Wont be exact but it will be right about.

And have ou teued another type of hay? I know my girls we swiched where i get my hay from and how they will hardly ever eat it! Ughh -.-

So now we have to get their hay other places and jst give that hay to the horse and wethers.

Or like how my dog has to get eather packaged or imported toys -.-

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## Crossroads Boers

I've seen much, much worse in the show ring.  I think your best option is to just show her and see what the judge says!


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## hscottom87

She is registered so I guess she will be shown in the breeding class? I'm going to try all the tips suggested. Hopefully she's going through an awkward phase because she was straight & long when first born!









She's a percentage. Does that change how she's judged?


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## hscottom87

Lol ok nevermind I see the break behind her shoulders in her younger pic.


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## Dani-1995

hscottom87 said:


> She is registered so I guess she will be shown in the breeding class? I'm going to try all the tips suggested. Hopefully she's going through an awkward phase because she was straight & long when first born!
> 
> She's a percentage. Does that change how she's judged?


She very well could be at an awkward stage. I really liked her as a little baby so maybe it is just awkward stages getting her. The break behind the shoulders can get better with weight. Never know. She might look longer as she gets bigger too

No, percentages and fullbloods are judged the same way. I think full bloods may be judged more on breed character though


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## goatgirl132

Is it just me or does she look monkey mouthed?

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## hscottom87

Does a B12 shot help increase appetite?


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## Dani-1995

Yes it does


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## hscottom87

Ok good. Just got back from the feed store w/ some. Going go give her a dose.


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## hscottom87

I don't know what monkey mouthed is but her mouth looks normal to me lol!!


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## Dani-1995

I don't think she is monkey mouthed... its when the lower jaw is longer than top. Parrot mouth is when the top jaw is longer. Its a good idea to watch bites though... they change as the goat ages.


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## loggyacreslivestock

When are you showing her?
If she is a market animal- meaning you are selling her for butchering at the close of a fair or show, you need to get her to the desired weight for that. Here, our desired weight for 4H market goats is around 75-80 pounds.

If that is what you are doing, then figure out how many days until show day, figure out how much she weighs (by weighing yourself on a bathroom scale, then picking her up up and weighing again, subtract your lone total from your together total.), then subtract how much she weighs now from how much you want her to weigh at show time. divide this number by the number of days left. This gives you her daily rate of gain needed.

ex: goat weighs 30 pounds.
needs to weigh 80 pounds for show
100 days until show
80-30= 50 more pounds to gain
50 pounds divided by 100 days = .5 pounds per day is how much she needs to gain. 
Keep track by weighing once a week.

Market goats and breeding goats are judged completely different. It is important to know what you are striving for.


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## hscottom87

Striving for breeding. So what should I do differently from market? Our first show is actually this Saturday.


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## goatgirl132

hscottom87 said:


> Striving for breeding. So what should I do differently from market? Our first show is actually this Saturday.


What i can tell you you will get way better replys than any one on here will give you.

Find breeders there take your goat to them and ask them. Take notes. Every breeder iv meet at shows are amazing. Abd so extremely nice. 
I cant give you any better advice than to do that.

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## Dani-1995

Breeding goats need a high fat and high protien diet where as market need low fat and high protein. Market are judged.on carcass alone and breding are.judged for structure and other things. Market are shaves and breeding are trimmed and the hair made too look more uniform

I agree, being able to see her in person would be much easier to say what she needs and what is good about her. But I think as far as suggesting products, clipping advice, show prep and general critiques the goat spot is good for that. I do think it would be good to converse with other breeders. They're usually very nice but you always have show snobs. If you go to nationals in June I would be more than happy to critique in person ... I also have friends that will be there that I know will. 

Maybe find out who will be at the show and ask them to take a look at her?


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## loggyacreslivestock

I am all into market goats, but the breeder I bought my buck from is into breeding and ABGA showing.
Maybe you could ask the people you bought her from for advise?


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## GTAllen

What feed do you have her on? My show prospects for breed are on a free choice mix of Show-rite, Calf Manna, a little cocosoya, and a little BOSS. Also you should rinse and blow her out daily.


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## hscottom87

I would love to take our daughter to nationals nut not sure yet if we'll make it. If we do I will get in touch w/ you! Thank you for offering to critique her. We've already encountered show snobs!!


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## hscottom87

I feed her Dominator 17%.


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## hscottom87

Lol yep I was wayyy off on weight. She ended up being about 50 lbs. Bailey placed 2nd w/ her over the weekend.


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## GTAllen

Congrats!


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## goatgirl132

Good job

Just goes to show what i learned in livestock jidging is good: small animals can be good animal

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## Dani-1995

goatgirl132 said:


> Good job
> 
> Just goes to show what i learned in livestock jidging is good: small animals can be good animal
> 
> show goat/lamb equipment
> www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


Yep! Its all about complete packages! (I've been judging for 4 years )

I don't think she is small for her age though.


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## goatgirl132

She should be right on track if Shes 50 lbs; now 30 was alittle small

But i think Shes good

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## hscottom87

I appreciate ya'lls help. I'm going to throw another question out there. We fenced off an acre pasture for her & her companion. We were told you can't do that w/ a show goat, that you have to dry lot them. Surely that isn't so!


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## Dani-1995

I think I already gave my answer on the other.thread


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## Crossroads Boers

Congrats that's awesome!!!


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## hscottom87

Yes and thank you Dani. I'm curious what everyone's set up is.


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## hscottom87

Judges comments was: "nice quality doe, not a thing wrong w/ her, she was just youngest doe there and was out horsed by other older doe but should grow out nicely." I am really hoping she does well @ our county fair this September.


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## Crossroads Boers

What great comments!!  I like to bring a video camera to some shows to record when the judge talks about my goats. I never remember what he/she says otherwise!


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## Crossroads Boers

hscottom87 said:


> I appreciate ya'lls help. I'm going to throw another question out there. We fenced off an acre pasture for her & her companion. We were told you can't do that w/ a show goat, that you have to dry lot them. Surely that isn't so!


Our goats have an enormous pasture... I have never tried feeding on a dry lot. People have opinions/ways of doing things and get those opinions set in their minds... I think either would be just fine. Dry lot or pasture, as long as you know the goats are still on their show feed while on pasture.


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## goatgirl132

I did that and will probs conteniou with my wethers but Frainkly my girls and i are getting tiered of them being penned up. 
We release them duing the day and bring them into their roundpen at night for feeding bc of the horse

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## HoosierShadow

Awww that is great that she did so well! Congrats!

Our kids have issues with their does being sunken around their loin area, but otherwise they do pretty well.
Last year we grazed them, browsed them in the woods, etc. and they were okay most days, but had that sunken look which drove me crazy because otherwise they looked fine.

This year we're trying more of the dry lot approach. Not sure how big the pens are but plenty enough room. We have 3 wethers in 1 pen and 2 does in the other <They are all 3mo>.
There IS grass in their pens but they don't graze very often.
They are fed 2x a day 16% medicated goat pellets, and then a really good supplement. The does get as much grain as they want, and we do give them clover grass hay off and on. I'm worried my son's doe will have a hay belly lol so we're cutting them back on hay a little bit.

IMO if this is your daughters first year showing, don't stress about it, just do what you can do, learn as you go, and most importantly have fun! 
That's what I tell my kids


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## hscottom87

Thank you! What causes a goat to get that sunken in look?


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## Dani-1995

Not drinking enough water, awkward stages.... all kind of things. Electrolytes do a pretty good of filling it in though.. at least for me


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## hscottom87

Ohh I see. Dani you had mentioned keeping an eye on worms..how often would you recommend a fecal sample?


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## Dani-1995

I don't do fecals unless I suspect tapeworms or something like that that doesn't show in famacha. Maybe like every month or 2? If you can do them yourself you can save some money. Normally with tapes you see white specks that look like rice in the feces.


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## hscottom87

Oh ok. I'd rather do myself. We won't be rotating pastures so I know we'll have to stay on top of it.


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