# Thoughts on this?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We have a doe due in 11 days, she's huge <Snow White>, well for her anyway, as she's not a real wide doe normally <kiko/cross>.

Last January she kidded huge triplets - huge for her anyway 7lbs, 10lbs & 11lbs. then factor in all the water weight.
She really had a hard time the end of her last pregnancy about the last week, the weight and size of her udder, poor girl could hardly walk, and couldn't stand up for very long. She'd go from her stall to her favorite place by the creek to rest. She'd get up for water, and hay, but couldn't keep up with the others going into the woods anymore.

She's 11 days away from a first estimated date, and just in the past couple of days she is having trouble keeping up, walking like it's hard to maneuver herself around, laying down most of the time. When she comes back from the woods she has to stop several times to seemingly catch her breath.

What do you do for your girls when they get like this? No, I don't think anything is wrong at all with her, just the baby weight, and the udder being huge.
I do try to encourage her to get up and move around. She's still trying her best to follow the others into the woods, but I just don't see it happening in a day or two.


----------



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

If you don't think there is anything wrong other than she is super pg...then there really isn't much you can do for her unless you are ready to lock her into a kidding pen. Just keep an eye on her and you're already doing that. Poor girl...


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I think she's better off getting as much exercise as she can tolerate, you don't want her lying down all the time. If she can't make it to the woods maybe just take her for a nice slow walk down the driveway or something.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, exercise is good for her now.


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Since this is pretty much what happened last year, I wouldn't be too worried. I like that she is pretty close. I'd be a little more worried if she still had 30 days to go. Is she eating OK? That's the main thing. If there is something you can do to keep her moving a little more, that's fine. I don't know what your feed program is (I know it's pretty good because I know you), but bump them up _a little_(or start them) on their grain/feed at this stage and when they act like this. I also start in with a little CMPK (MFO oral solution) like 40 ccs once a day.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, she does try to move around, but it's so hard for her. The other does go off into the woods, and she just can't keep up. She will stop and even consider just going back to the barn area.

She has access to a roll of grass hay all day long, she gets a flake of good clover/grass hay at night in her stall. She gets 2lbs. of 16% medicated pelleted feed w/BOSS, and 3 Tums in her feed.

Problem is with bumping up her feed...she tends to have HUGE babies. 
She's eating well, and I do plan on mixing in some alfalfa pellets as well, but have to wait until right after Christmas before I can get over to the feed store to pick it up.

She's our baby, so I know I tend to really get worried about her. But after those last 2 kiddings with huge babies, I really don't know how I should be feeding her lol She's not a huge doe like the boers, but she has a 13lb. single kid in 2012, and back in Jan she had huge triplets <7lbs. 10lbs 11lbs>. 
Thankfully she did act like this last year, so that helps me from getting too worried, but I feel so bad for her.


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

It sounds like she is already getting plenty to eat. If she continues to eat all that, I think you are good. When they really go haywire, they slow down and sometimes even stop eating.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

With the new rescue I got I'm giving her a fair amount of BOSS since it's high in fat but not too much protein, so should give her some energy without growing the baby too much. So if you do increase something I would give more of that.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I hear ya, praying she will be OK, I know we worry about them.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! I have actually increased her BOSS a bit, as well as another doe that is our hard keeper - both are due at the same time.

I took some video of her to show you, it's not very good quality, very old camera w/out sound, but this is how she walks especially when she's been laying down for a while and gets up. Her feet are good, so no worries there, but you can tell she has a lot of baby/water weight really making her struggle  Again, if she hadn't done this last year, I would be very very worried!

She did get up and go to the woods, but didn't really browse, and came back to lay down. She got up for a little while when we were out there, then debated going to the woods and decided laying down was a better idea.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It looks like she has a limp in the front. Maybe she was injured or hit by another goat in the front leg? 
It hurts her and she doesn't want to walk on it to much. That is what I am seeing.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

She looks really sore. If her feet are ok is it possible she has some arthritis?


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

She did this last pregnancy too, and as soon as she kidded she was fine again. Feet are good, she has the best feet of the bunch, it's getting time for trimming again, but it can wait until after she kids. Never had any issues with rot or anything in her feet.
She's carrying a LOT of weight  
She's been fussing with Star, so that could be part of it too. I'm not sure what else could bother her. 
The first thing that came to mind last year was calcium deficiency, but we were feeding good alfalfa last year, and giving a little bit of tums.
No alfalfa this year, but clover/grass hay, and she is getting 3 tums <highest dose they have I think it's 1000>. 
Since she did this last year and was fine...?


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Some people would describe this as "walking of egg shells" (even though Snow seems to be favoring one leg over the other) and they use the description as a symptom of possible hypocalcemia. You are feeding alfalfa and tums, so you are already treating for this to some extent. She's probably going to be fine. Just like she turned out fine last year. But at my farm I give MFO to does like this.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

She's not getting the alfalfa pellets yet, but is getting clover/grass mix. 

What is MFO?

I have a TSC nearby they may have something I can use vs. the tums? Or should I give her more Tums, instead of 3 at feeding time, give her a few in the morning as well?


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Reading about it on Tennesseemeatgoats website, it says that I should actually be lowering the amount of calcium right? So maybe stop the tums and see if that helps?


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> Reading about it on Tennesseemeatgoats website, it says that I should actually be lowering the amount of calcium right? So maybe stop the tums and see if that helps?


Please don't follow that advise. Feed the alfalfa.


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> She's not getting the alfalfa pellets yet, but is getting clover/grass mix.
> What is MFO?
> I have a TSC nearby they may have something I can use vs. the tums? Or should I give her more Tums, instead of 3 at feeding time, give her a few in the morning as well?


I would start the alfalfa pellets. Real alfalfa hay too if you can find some, though I would think clover is high in calcium. MFO stands for "milk fever oral". As close as I can tell, it is CMPK labeled for oral use. I learned of it from a dairy goat forum I was on. They swear by it. I order it online from valley vet. It is fairly cheap. CMPK I believe is prescription from the vet for some dumb reason. Calcium gluconate is over the counter and easier to find. I would continue the tums if you don't have any other form of supplemental calcium.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Tenacross said:


> Please don't follow that advise. Feed the alfalfa.


Thanks! I've been so confused this go around on how to feed her since she has such big kids. 
Think I should cut back on the grain a bit and add in alfalfa pellets? I'm slowly increasing BOSS. 
If so I can run to get some pellets before TSC closes. 
I feel so bad for her


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

If you are going to the farm store, you might want to pick up some nutridrench if you don't have any. Just in case she quits eating on you. B-Vits too for that matter.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Tim, I do have thiamine I keep it on hand, I think I have some complex left too. Eating isn't a problem though, she finishes her feed quickly, and will pick her feeder up and throw it around so I know it's empty lol 
She gets a decent size flake of clover/grass hay every night in her stall, and she tears through the whole thing, plus eats from the roll bale during the day. 

I know our TSC has most stuff, so I'll see what I can get. I greatly appreciate your help, I've been so worried about her, and she's our family favorite ♥
BTW, we have another doe that also throws triplets, she's due in about 3 1/2 weeks, and is pretty big, she tends to get this way a bit as well, so I'll keep an eye on her, so far so good, and she has average size kids, so I am not as worried about giving her a little extra feed, etc.

Edit: the other doe I mentioned that gets that way a bit is fine right now, but last pregnancy she was a little off. She tends to have bad feed though...


----------



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> Thanks! I've been so confused this go around on how to feed her since she has such big kids.
> Think I should cut back on the grain a bit and add in alfalfa pellets? I'm slowly increasing BOSS. If so I can run to get some pellets before TSC closes. I feel so bad for her


I know some people think you should decrease feed/grain late to make for smaller babies. I don't buy this. I look at it like this.... The babies are going to grow to pretty much the size God intended them to grow. You can either feed the doe enough to help, or the doe will sacrifice her own body to grow them. The second option is what leads to preg tox and hypocalcemia.
But increasing alfalfa pellets while decreasing "grain" probably won't hurt. Alfalfa pellets are like 15-16% protein, so you aren't dropping that by the switch. What is the protein and calcium to phosphorus ratio of your pelleted feed? The primary ingredient in my pelleted feed is alfalfa. Ha.

Bottom line, Candice. With your doe eating as well as she is, you are probably in good shape. I wouldn't drastically change anything.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, I do have to agree babies will grow regardless and the does need their nutrition. That's one reason I didn't want to cut her back on anything, but wasn't real sure for her what I should feed <amounts>.

I was only able to get Alfalfa pellets tonight. We have another doe that is a very hard keeper/hard to put weight on, so I know she can benefit too. She gets just as much feed/more than Snow White, and is due the same time so they are both stalled at night side by side.

Anyway..it's been a while since they've had the pellets, and they both protested :laugh: It was pretty funny, but hopefully they don't take forever to get adjusted.
Snow White went through her feed with pure attitude, making sure I noticed her scooting the pellets around in her feeder. 
I did not give her the Tums, but will give her 1 in the morning.


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She is looking like a doe who has a belly full of babies she's ready to give up 
Her feed management is good too, here with my ND I need to follow the rule of decreasing grain in the last 6 weeks because I learned the hard way that it's easier on the doe to deliver average sized kids than those who are over 4.5lbs at birth.... I do give my girls alfalfa pellets as well as 2-3 TUMS a day in the last 2 months, more alfalfa in the last month than grain.

The gimp she has with that right front leg almost seems like it's "sleeping" from laying down ? Does it work out at all once she's been up for a bit?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Since she did have such big kids I would watch for pt. Not to freak you out but my doe had that whole limp and moving slowly before she started to go down hill. They have strips to check but someone else is gonna have to tell you what its called lol. She's very close to kidding so I would just keep a eye on her and if she seems to not want to eat I would call a vet and get those suckers out.....they do down so dang fast. I could be way off here but just something to watch


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Liz and Jessica!

She does still walk a bit like that after she's been up for a while. It's mostly been her back end especially since she started getting a big udder.

This is a pic I took on the 18th - she measured 5' round a week ago.









Oh --- also thought I'd mention, it was very warm today, and I think that affected her too, she was a bit hot and breathing fast after she'd been moving around a bit. Got into the upper 60s after weeks of being in the 20s/30s, and occasionally a 40 here and there.

Another thing is she does tend to lay on that front leg, so that also got me thinking maybe she's laying on it too much and causing it to be sore?


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

They did finally finish the pellets we gave last night. We'll start feeding 2x a day tomorrow. 
She has laid around all day today, chewing her cud, and looking miserable. 
Usually she goes in the hay shelter to eat, but she seems to just not want to be in close quarters with the others. 
She does usually graze up by her favorite laying spot, but after all the rain last night/this morning, nobody is interested in the grass today. 
If she's like that tomorrow, I'll put her and her daughter in a pen w/hay so the others can't bother her. She's been herd queen, but 2nd in charge, Star has seemingly taken over during the last couple of weeks knowing she can take advantage of her, and she just won't even attempt to go to the hay feeder with Star there.


----------



## PantoneH (Nov 21, 2013)

Poor girl!! She's huge! My doe has gotten big, but wow not that big. I would try walking her and letting her browse. Btw I'm thinking of buying alfalfa pellets from the dairy farm across the street. They're selling it 25$ a 50pound bag... sound right? They're saying it's organic. And do u have to soak it before you feed?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

^^^ I don't know about price but no you don't have to soak 
Poor girl  I'm sure just being so big is playing a big part. When I was prego with my son I got really fat and he was a 8.3 baby and I'm small and I remember my knees and back were done for by the time he came so I feel the poor girls pain lol. Hopefully she has them on day 145 lol


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

PantoneH said:


> Poor girl!! She's huge! My doe has gotten big, but wow not that big. I would try walking her and letting her browse. Btw I'm thinking of buying alfalfa pellets from the dairy farm across the street. They're selling it 25$ a 50pound bag... sound right? They're saying it's organic. And do u have to soak it before you feed?


 Like Jessica said, you don't have to soak it. But introduce it slow, they may not like it at first, but will eventually eat it 

I think price depends on your location. I got a bag at Tractor Supply co. for $14.99 for 40lbs. I think our feed store has 50lb. for $17.99.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jessica84 said:


> ^^^ I don't know about price but no you don't have to soak
> Poor girl  I'm sure just being so big is playing a big part. When I was prego with my son I got really fat and he was a 8.3 baby and I'm small and I remember my knees and back were done for by the time he came so I feel the poor girls pain lol. Hopefully she has them on day 145 lol


Thanks, I sure hope so. She's so miserable. She looks like a beached whale laying out there! You can see in her expression she wants to get up and do stuff, but she considers it and decides it's just not worth the effort.
It's colder today, but beautiful out, so I'm going to have the kids take them up front to graze for a while, I think she'll really enjoy that.

I agree about the baby weight. My first 2 kids were 8.4 and 8.10 1/2, my youngest was 7.14 lol. Of course I was much skinner with my first 2, and a chunk with my last, still a chunk, bleh!


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Poor girl looks so ready to be done with being pregnant! 

FYI (anyone) - fresh carrot juice is great for a source of readily bioavailable calcium - just in case you don't have/can't get the CMPK or similar.


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Linz! I might have to consider that if anything changes 
She was a bit more active today. Grazed the girls in the front yard for a while, and she was so happy. 

My husband has been gone for a week, and just saw her today and said he's seen them that way before, and said it is from all the weight she's carrying. I think I agree. She seems just fine otherwise.

Also, I did stop the Tums since I started the alfalfa pellets. She is no longer protesting the pellets and ate them up in her grain. I ended up giving her a little more for the night


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

.:Linz:. said:


> Poor girl looks so ready to be done with being pregnant!
> 
> FYI (anyone) - fresh carrot juice is great for a source of readily bioavailable calcium - just in case you don't have/can't get the CMPK or similar.


Gave my girls some carrots today after r reading this and they were A BIG hit! Way better than tums.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Mine are freaks they never eat anything a normal goat would lol. Maybe she is having her nesting time and getting ready to kid


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

lol Snow White is the only one that will eat carrots. I gave them some baby carrots the other day and she was the only one that would eat them.
Our girls are total junk food eaters, they love animal crackers, cookies, snack crackers, bread, peanut butter sandwiches, and anything else like that.
My daughter has a doe that LOVES sub sandwiches. At their 4-H shows this summer she'd go crazy over those sandwiches, my daughter had to share with her, it was pretty funny. She'd stick her head out of the pen turn it in all directions trying to reach the sandwich, and if that didn't work, she'd stick out her tongue and try to reach it that way too lol I posted about it on a topic the other day. She's pretty funny


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

The day I brought my rescue goat home I sat in her stall for a while to make sure she settled in, and I had a veggie sandwich that she was happy to share


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

HoosierShadow said:


> ... She'd stick her head out of the pen turn it in all directions trying to reach the sandwich, and if that didn't work, she'd stick out her tongue and try to reach it that way too lol I posted about it on a topic the other day. She's pretty funny


Haha I love when they do that - goofballs!


----------

