# Raising Kids on CAE Prevention



## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

Just curious, who raises kids on CAE Prevention??


I raise my nubians on CAE Prevention. 
The pygmys raise their own kids unless there is some reason for me to raise them. 

Do you like raising them? Or would you prefer dam raising?

I really like the bottle feeding. The kids and I get closer since they look to me for food and comfort. Makes it a bit easier for me to teach them all the stuff they need to know to go in the ring. 

After comparing the dam raised kids (I bought 3 like that.) and bottle raised kids I definately prefer the bottle raised kids. I know not all dam raised kids are wild but the ones I got were. Owner didn't have time to play with all the kids which I understand. She has a busy life. Lol. I tamed down one of the wild kids I got, the other one went to a new home because her and I clashed. We didnt' like one another AT ALL. And the other one is getting tame. Finally. 

Bottle raising gives me a good reason for not leaving when the doe is due to kid. If I'm raising on the CAE Prevention I HAVE to be home. :lol: LOL


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## getchagoat (Julie) (Oct 5, 2007)

CAE is very uncommon, so unless your herd is small and you have alot of time, bottle feeding all the kids isn't much of an option. We both work full time and can't get all goats tested, etc. Just keeping up with chores and other activities on and off the farm is hard enough.  

I know a tested CAE free herd and she doesn't bottle feed. I'm guessing she tested the dams beforehand and knew they wouldn't pass it. I'm not educate don how you test for it though. I've never heard of a case of it. But if you are starting out your herd being on the ball with it, then that's something else you can tell your customers and they will like it.


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

We don't bottle feed any kids but we have tested for CAE and all goats have came back negative. We test annually for CAE, Johnes, and CL.


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## fritzie (Oct 6, 2007)

i have always raised mine on stricked c.a.e. prevention. for some reason (with dairy goats) breeders will not buy from you if you haven't raised them on c.a.e. prevertion. i use to test also & still bottle raised them. i believe it is a personnal preference(no right or wrong) weather to hand raise or dam raise them. some people just don't have the time to do it because they work out side of the home. i have seen both kids that were bottle raised & those dam raised that have been spooky. it depends on how much time you can spend with handling the babies. i will say that there have been times that i wish mine were on the dams(just makes it easier) but i love doing the way i do.


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

I do raise my kids on CAE prevention as well. I have seen CAE first hand, I sure do not want that happening to any more of my goats.


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## redneck_acres (Oct 18, 2007)

We to have a strict CAE prevention plan as kids are pulled off mom, we clean them off and feed them heat treated colostrom and pasteurized milk. Once they get to eating on the bottle or bucket good it is no big deal to go out and feed them. We also test. According to the infomation i've read on it, some does show symptoms of the disease and others may never show symptoms of the disease. And if you go to shows or take your goats on other peoples places or let others bring goats on to your place than you will always be taking the chance of bringing something into the herd.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I test and raise my kids on CAE prevention as well. Cae seems tobe a commen thing hre in this neck of the woods. I only know of one other herd that is completly negative. A friend of mine has a ten year old doe that is positive and it sure has taken a tole on her. She wasn't able to have kids after the age of seven just because it was so hard on her. To tril her feet they have to put her in a sling and pay her down because she can't stand on three feet for long. She lays with her front feet straight out in front of her because her knees are fused and she can't bend them. She still gets around alright but i think this is going to be her last year. Its just getting to hard on her to move her around. She was their first goat so putting her down is going to be hard but its going to be a decision they have to make. 
But like somone said othe goats don't show any signs of it. and lad a perfectly normal life. 
I show and take my goats place so i would rather be safe then sorry. 


beth


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I have been contemplating on bottle feeding my babies when they are born in spring - I have tested my herd and all are CAE neg.

I would love the babies to be more "social" but to take them completely away from mom - I am not sure if that is the best thing, in my own opinion.

When it is mentioned on taking them at birth and feeding colostrum and pasturized milk - where is this milk coming from? I am so new to all this :0)


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

some people will bottle feed as a supplement to the mom.

here is an idea for you something I have thought of myself especially if you want milk from mom.


Separate the kids into a stall or dog crate at night (at around 4-6 weeks old is when I do it) and then in the morning bottle feed the kids. Milk mom and then let the kids out with here all day, separate at night etc.

This way they are interested in seeing you and see you and if you take the time with them each morning it will really socialize them.

I personally have not done this yet BUT I have thought of doing it this year with kids so I don't know how well it works or not.

But this took us off topic, sorry


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## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

kelebek,

The milk comes from the doe. I milk them morning and night, pasteurize that milk and that is what is fed to the kids. Same with colostrum, we milk her heat treat it and freeze it if there is left over. And there was since we had a frozen thing of it from last kidding. Her previous owners gave it to us. So we have Hannah's colostrum frozen right now for next years kidding. Also Hannah knows the routine, its not hard on her taking the kids. She kids out and she doesn't bother cleaning them. She gets it done and over with and she's ready to get out of that pen and back with Delilah. Her kids were raised on CAE prevention at her previous home also. 

Sparks879- I agree. I know a breeder who has two CAE Positive does and showing signs. She has them separated from the rest of the herd though. She tests regularly...CAE Neg. Every year for the herd except of course the two positives. 



I to would rather be safe then sorry.


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## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

Thanks for replying everyone.


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

Not to steal your thread, but since this is about CAE prevention. Does anyone here do free choice cold pasteurized milk, as opposed to just feeding individual bottles at specific times?


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## ksacres (Oct 30, 2007)

We don't raise on "prevention" but we do test our adults and bottle feed. True "prevention" means kids are taken immediately(which we do) then fed heat treated colostrum (first milk) and pastuerized milk from then on. There are many interesting articles about raw vs pastuerized milk and we have decided raw milk is better for our babies- and it's fed fresh, right after we milk the girls. If we had a doe pop up positive, we probably just wouldn't use her milk. Pastuerizing milk takes A LOT of extra work plus you have to buy the pastuerizer. Too much work takes away from the fun of it. I agree about the wildness of dam raised babies- yes I have had standoffish bottle raised animals, but they aren't likely to take off in a headlong rush and hurl themselves against the fencing (hmm, almost sounds like I'm speaking from experience here LOL).


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry - very ignorant newbie here to this!

So if you are using the same milk from the doe for the kids to bottle feed, why not let her nurse? Besides making them more social. 

I guess I am not understanding if milking from same mom, how it would change when the milk is going into a bottle and given to the baby.


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## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

kelebek,

For the kid to be raised on CAE Prevention the milk must be pasteurized...  I dont bottle feed just to they will be tame. We bottle feed for CAE Prevention...an extra plus is the tame kids. 

ksacres-
You dont have to buy a pasteurizer. You can use two pots. ( I can't think of what they are called.) One is for 2-3 gallons and the other one is alot bigger. Put water in the bigger one, put milk in the small pot and put that pot inside the bigger one.  


Farmgirl18- I know someone who does that and it works great for her.  I may try it next year.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I don't know, I look at is at CAE Prevention, is good management and good health also. I don't thing that you have to bottle feed your babies to be a "prevention" farm.
CAE, is only going to be passed if they are exposed to it. I hate to think that just because you don't bottle feed that you are not trying to prevent it. It has just as much to do with good husbandry, as it does anything else.


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## fritzie (Oct 6, 2007)

farmgirl i pull all my babies at birth & heat treat the colostrum & pasturize the milk. i feed them on a lamb bar pail. the way i do it is i figure a hafl gallon of milk a day per kid & divid that in to two feedings. i do feed the milk cold. i was told along time ago that they will not get scours or drink as fast that way. so far it has worked for me. the hardest part of feeding cold milk is seeing them shiver but they stop real quik.

lori that is why i said i believe it is a personal preference wether to bottle feed or not. if you know that your herd is neg & not been exposed then dam raising is just fine. i go to alot of shows every year so i stand a greater chance of picking up some thing. there is no right or wrong way to raise kids it is what works best for you & your herd.


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## ksacres (Oct 30, 2007)

Sweetgoats: True prevention involves heating the milk to a certain temp for a certain lenght of time, my does are tested annually, and that's what I tell any would-be buyers, but since I don't pastuerize, I can't claim that my kids are on "prevention" b/c that would be a lie. Testing your herd is not prevention, it just tells you if any of the animals in your herd are positive. 


To be perfectly honest, CAE is not a huge concern for me. Only 10% of infected animals only show symptoms, most of them mild. That's not to say I don't care, that's why I test, but it wouldn't be the end of the world for me or my goats. CAE pos goats can still be shown, can still milk very well, can still be champions, can still produce amazing CAE negative offspring, and the list goes on. But I still want to know if it's there, more so I can let other people know than for any other reasons.

I have a doe out of a CAE pos animal that is CAE negative b/c she was raised on prevention. If she had been allowed to nurse her dam, she would be positive now. So in herds where there is known CAE, heat treating is basically the only way to go. 

As another point, ANY herd that shows or goes anywhere where there are other goats can have a case of CAE pop up. I know of several animals out of well-known herds that have popped up CAE positive. I also have heard horror stories of malicious people deliberatly leaving milk from CAE pos animals if front of pens where other goats can get to it, I know my girls will all willingly drink milk if I leave it where they can get to it, I have one doe that will practically run you over to get to it. But it happens, some people are nasty that way. Is anyone really going to destroy their prize doe or buck over being CAE positive-probably not-it just means extra work and extra housing and extra attention.

fcnubian: I think you are referring to a double broiler, but I still prefer to feed raw with all nutrients still intact, especially since my girls are tested negative and that's enough for me. Do I lose sales b/c of it? Probably not since I'm only a small breeder and sell a majority to people who just want some family milk.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

getchagoat (Julie) said:


> CAE is very uncommon.


i disagree. more than 80% of goatherds in the US have cae positive animals.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

for me it is also an economical reason to raise on strict cae prevention. i can demand and get a much higher price for a kid if raised on cae prevention. btw only kids pulled at birth, raised away from adults on heat treated colostrum and pasteurized milk can be called "raised on prevention" cae does not just pop up. sometimes it takes a long time until a goat convert serum positive.
i don't even use double boiler but a big SS pot with thick bottom. 
i don't supplement free choice milk but have them on a regular schedule.


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## ruedyranch (Jan 15, 2011)

I know this is an old thread but feel the need to put in my two cents. First of all, under no circumstances should a CAE positive doe be taken to a show. I have never been to a show where showing an animal with a communicable disease was acceptable. You need to realize that there is always the possibility of passing your nightmare into someone else's herd. It is also a falicy that CAE does not effect milk production. Its is a very common disease and I don't know a breeder that hasn't had the misfortune to have to deal with it at some point. It used to be that it was really an affliction of the dairy world but happily more and more meat goat breeders are becoming aware of the disease and are testing and culling. I guess I think the odds are worth taking measures to avoid.


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