# What else causes a black goat to change colors



## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I have this one little doe that I just can't seem to get straight! Long story short her mom did not receive proper minerals/feed/supplements during her pregnancy. This little girl has a limp in her hindleg that a vet said was likely due to mineral deficiency during gestation. (Her hip socket not forming properly). Her limp has improved a lot since I have had her.

Her black coat keeps going red/rust. She has lose minerals & kelp available. I have copper bolused her 3 times in the last year. (She got 1 half dosage and 2 full dosages.) I see her eating her minerals almost every day. We also have a mineral block that she really likes. I see her licking on it a lot. Her winter coat grew in jet black but now she is turning colors again. :hair: It seems like she eats more minerals then my other girls. After I bolus her she seems to improve pretty quickly (within 6 weeks) but she also declines quickly.

She is our pet goat. Any ideas on what could be going on? Call me CRAZY but I swear her limping gets worse and her overall body condition declines when her hair starts turning red/rust.

Here she is in December:









This was tonight, it was raining but if you look closely you can see the red/rust color coming in. Especially on her hindleg.









All of my goats were copper deficient when I got them. A lot of the goats I see for sale around here are. But FINALLY for the 1st time since owning them everyone (except this little doe) looks amazing. No more fish tail, or dry curly hair.
Is this color change related to anything else BESIDES copper?
Is it possible for a goat to have a much higher copper need then her herd mayes? I'm scared of giving her too much too.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2012)

My black goats are changing colors too but I just contributed it to winter coat and lots of sun bleaching it out.


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## 4theluvofgoats (Jun 9, 2011)

Do you have high iron or sulphur in your water? It is posssible that something may be inhibiting the coppers absorbtion.


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## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh wow -- how can I get my water tested? I also have a black doe I've been bolusing with Coprasure and she hasn't gotten much better at all.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Hum, I was going to ask the same thing? I don't know whats in our water. :shrug: 

I did a quick google search for the aquifer our water comes from and this is what I found. Not sure what it means though. 

Typical Range of Concentrations for the Freshwater Edwards Aquifer (mg/L)

Calcium (Ca) ~ 80 - 120
Magnesium (Mg) ~ 10 - 20
Sodium (Na) ~ 3 - 10
Potassium (K) ~ 1 - 2
Bicarbonate (HCO3) ~250 - 400
Sulfate (SO4) ~ 10 - 30
Chloride (Cl) ~ 10 - 30
Fluoride (F) ~ 0.1 - 0.5
Silica (SiO2) ~ 10 - 20

"'BMDL' stands for Below Method Detection Limits and indicates the concentration was somewhere below the lowest level that could be detected by the test. "

Typical Range of Concentrations for the Freshwater Edwards Aquifer (ug/L) 

Antimony (Sb) ~ BMDL - 1.18
Arsenic (As) ~ BMDL - 2.0
Barium (Ba) ~ BMDL - 100
Beryllium (Be) ~ BMDL
Cadmium (Cd) ~ BMDL - 1.0
Chromium (Cr) ~ BMDL - 15
Mercury (Hg) ~ BMDL - 1.5
Selenium (Se) ~ BMDL
Silver (Ag) ~ BMDL
Thallium (Tl) ~ BMDL

Aluminum (Al) ~ BMDL - 210
Iron (Fe) ~ BMDL - 500
Manganese (Mn) ~ BMDL - 50
Zinc (Zn) ~ BMDL - 2000

Copper (Cu) ~ BMDL - 40
Lead (Pb) ~ BMDL - 10


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

4theluvofgoats said:


> Do you have high iron or sulphur in your water? It is posssible that something may be inhibiting the coppers absorbtion.


I would check that. There are water testing companies all over the place.

Yes some goats will need more than others.

* The copper bolus generally takes 3 months to start to show in their coats as improvement. So don't expect instant change. Mandrea how long ago did you bolus?


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## 4theluvofgoats (Jun 9, 2011)

You may have read this info from saanendoah already. It has the copper info and what elements may bind to it reducing it's absorbtion. http://saanendoah.com/copper1.html Your state department should be able to tell you how and where to have your water tested, sometimes some of the tests are free. I have no idea what the iron/sulphur levels should be. She mentions that some breeders start bolusing as early as 2-4 weeks old, I know of one well respected Nigerian breeder in MA that boluses her kids that early. I bolus between 2-3 times a year, I have hard water which limits absorbtion.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

From this forum I have learned that Iron in your minerals will block the absorption of copper.
The block that I was using was High in copper and was suppose to kill my sheep if they ate it. They can eat that block down in 5 days and not die. The block also had iron in it! So I switched to Right Now Onyx, by Cargill and give it to them free choice. My black haired goat that had red highlights went all black in a matter of a week or so. I had to have the farm store order it in special. http://thegoatspot.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=17883


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

4theluvofgoats,

We have really hard water here. I wonder if that is the problem onder:


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

WOW, just found a place locally that does water testing.... There standard water testing requires you to picking up a specialized container from there facility, getting a sample from your sink and returning it to them within 2 days of collecting the sample.... Simple.... then I checked the price .... "Routine Minerals in Drinking Water" $250.00 ... If you want "Metals & Minerals in Drinking Water" they offer a discounted price of $330!


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

My mom & I bolus our herds at the same time.... I usually bolus 3 times per year depending on the goat. We also use Bo-Se at least 3x's per year.

My mom does the same, but she adds two 1/2 doses inbetween her 3x's a year because of her hard water with very high iron content.

I don't have the same troubles with my water.... We both use Cargill Right Now Onyx minerals. We also don't feed heavy sweet feeds because they contain too much molasses, which is high in iron & helps inhibit copper absorption.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Hum... I'm also feeding sweet feed. Always have. My goats are a little spoiled. I tried the pelleted feed and they turned there noses up to it. This particular doe gets about 1 cup of grain, 1 cup of Timothy/Alfalfa pellets & a handful of BOSS every day. She also gets out to forage all day long. We are over grown with weeds and grass here at the moment thanks to all the rain. I have been giving them Alfalfa hay 2-3 times per week plus free access to coastal hay. I put out fresh Sweetlix loose goat mineral mixed with kelp every morning. They are all allowed free choice minerals all day long. I just put it away at night because of the humidity. I have a huge brown mineral block that I was given when I got the goats. She is the only one that really licks on it. I see her over there almost every day licking on it for a minute or two. 

I don't know if we are in a Selenium deficient area or not but I did just give her a dose of the Selenium/Vit E gel I got from Jeffers. Actually gave it to all the girls since the others are pregnant.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2012)

All have been excellent suggestions ! However ,just want to add , I truly think sometimes its their actual piment /coloration. I have one doeling who does the same thing (in places where some patterns have tan) her dam was spotted but black and was the same way (so could be a genetic color, or a genetic sensitivity ) while other goats on same management ,are jet black. Also overly high levels of copper etc have the same symptoms as deficiency so make sure you arent over doing it too ..Wish there was an accurate way to "test" their levels . make our job simpler! Anyway , just my 2cents .


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

Thank you for all the opinions.

Here is a photo of her a year ago, just a little after I got her. 








She had only ever had her moms milk and her mom was extremely deficient when I got her too. I put them on ManaPro loose minerals and she improved, but still looked poorly.

She has been wormed, been to the vet, etc.

After a few months she was much better physically but still had noticeable red hue to her fur.

Then I switched to Sweetlik & started using copper. I noticed a HUGE improvement in all my goats. When her winter coat came in late December she was beautifully jet black (and white). Not a hint of red on her. Now 2 months later she is turning red again. :hair:

Maybe I just worry too much that she will start looking like she did when I got her.

Could this be some kind of chronic mineral deficiency? Not sure if it's possible but could it be related to the fact she did not receive enough minerals during gestation and when she was really young? :shrug: Maybe she can't store or process minerals properly ... now I'm just guessing and thinking out loud..


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## TiffofMo (Jan 10, 2011)

Don't know what cause it but im in the same boat you are. I bought this goat that i thought was a tan and white goat. But as soon as i started mixing minerals into there sweet feed she turn a dark brown and white like her sister. But unless i mixed her minerals in she would not stay that color. I kept her daughter who is all black with minimal white. And ive noticed she has red tips starting on her coat. So i think once a goat is born lacking minerals they will always be that way and possibly pass it on to her babies. Just my thought anyway.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, I wouldn't go so far to say if born deficient , always deficient or that "deficiency" is passes on to kids, but forsure there is millions of genetic factors that play a roll in health


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## Mandara Farm (Sep 12, 2010)

FreedomStar, I bolused 6 months ago, so my girls are due again right about now. No significant change in her coat color. I've looked at early pics of her when she was 3 months old (when I got her) and she either was deficient when she came to me, or maybe that's just her coloring... I'll try to post some pics today.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Personally, I think it looks like sunbleaching. I've owned a lot of black animals and that's what sunbleaching looks like. A fairly easy way to tell? Get sunblock (yep, normal walmart brand sunblock). Apply daily. It may take a few weeks, but if it's sunbleach....she should quit bleaching. I would seriously consider testing before I bolused any more. You can overdo and end up with a lot of the same symptoms (as someone mentioned before). At some point, you have to get blood tests or whatever to determine if you really need to be doing all the extra dosing. It's easy and FREE to find out if you're in a selenium or copper deficient area. Call your County Extension Agent.


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