# Udder problem in doe just delivered



## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

This doe is about 6 years old. This is her 3rd kidding that I KNOW of. When we bought her about 3 years ago she was bred and as she progressed her udder problem became evident. This problem has persisted and is my problem with her current kidding. She just delivered yesterday. The udder is uneven with the left side being much bigger and longer. The udder hangs so low the teat drags nearly on the ground, collecting debris and making it difficult for the kids to nurse. It must be sensitive because she kicks at it and has lacerated the surface with her hoof. She discourages the kids from that side by raising her leg when they come to that side. We tried to hand milk her this pm - much to her dislike - and she seemed to get some relief, accepting the kid when we placed him on the teat. I had to hold the udder up for him to really be able to get to it. I am attempting to attach pictures. So I have 2 questions: Will the other side of the udder / teat, support 2 kids. Would an udder sling work in this case and if so how do I get or make one. The photo on the grass is about 2 weeks before kidding, the one by fencing was tonight, after kidding yesterday. I appreciate any thoughts or input. Thank you. Still think this is the BEST Goat Site on the net. hlala:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Those teats are pretty blown out. I would try an udder sling. I would also milk that one side on a regular basis. There is no way that the smaller side of udder will support 2 kids.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Oh wow, poor thing. I would encourage you to milk at least once, if not twice a day, just to keep her from getting tight. You can even bring kids up to the stand and have them latch onto the blown out side. I also concur with the udder sling; we need to keep it up off the ground to protect it from mastitis and injury. It'll be more comfortable for her too. I'm not sure if there's an udder sling that still allows kids to nurse, or maybe you'd have to put holes in it ... would have to look at the different designs.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree. 

Have you checked for mastitis in case?

I would also watch her other side and milk out enough so that teat doesn't blow out more as well.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Thank you all. We have not checked for mastitis, though the milk looks and smells good. I will do the dishsoap test today. She has already put a surface laceration to the udder on that side from raising her leg to push kids or flies off. I don't know how we could possibly milk all that off. We did some by hand yesterday and it seemed to give her some relief. We then held the teat up and attached a kid who drank quite a bit. Where would one find an udder sling? I don't believe that I could make one. We tried panty hose yesterday and it was a complete FAIL. Did not raise the udder at all.....we we did not do it right. 
Thanks again. Always the best information here.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Hoegger has one. I do not remember what they called it or where they had it categorized. I found it by accident.

NOT a big fan of Hoegger at the moment, but I know I saw one there.

I'll try to find it and post it here


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What is the dishsoap test?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

*Found it*

It is called Udder Support

It is in Goat Supplies>Medicine Cabinet>Udder Care Shop>Udder Support.

Cost is 43.95 . Comes in 3 sizes.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Honestly, I would bottle feed the kids and dry her up.

Dish soap, you get 3 squirts of milk and add about 3 drops of dish soap. Mix, if it stays milk consistency it's fine, if it starts thickening up like yogurt, mastitis is present.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Well, today's update is that dish soap test was negative. We milked about 8 ounces off the larger side with much protest from the doe and it must have taken well over an hour. The milk seems to be flowing well but my hand cramps and my back gives out sitting on a 5 gallon bucket with hubby holding her horns and me fighting her leg she keeps raising up at the udder. So here is my question.....will a human breast pump work? If I can hook her up to one of the small battery powered ones and get a quart off of her she might feel better. I spoke with the breeder who is offering to take both bucklings from me "and pay me a little something" and bottle raise them. The sire was her buck and this doe came from her as well but she did not breed her, she acquired her. I was hoping to sell one buckling and trade another for a doe but I do NOT have time to completely bottle feed. So, I was hoping I could pump the very large side off with a human breast pump, let the kids nurse and supplement with bottles from what we pump off. Is this do-able? Will it work? The breeder is making it sound like we need to make this deal right now because they won't last long....the kids are up moving around, pooping yellow, but one is a little peppier than the other. It IS very hot and they seem to be sleeping a lot in the heat. I have set up a fan in the barn. I can't do round the clock bottle feeds but I can supplement with bottle feeding.....and would sure love to go buy the human breast pump if it will work.....any opinions?


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Just a couple unrelated questions, are her hooves really long, and she looks down her pasterns too, are you in a selenium deficient area?


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Yes Audrey, her hooves are really long in the back. Front are not too bad. None of my others have this issue. She was like this when I got her and I have had the farrier out several times but did not want to mess with her while she was pregnant. I'm sure that has contributed to several superficial lacerations to her udder as she raises her leg. I have mineral free feed in a feeder but they don't seem to like it. Now it is all caked up and I'll have to dig it out. They lick on a mineral block that I put out but I understand that is like licking ice cubes for thirst. They just don't seem to take the mineral.


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

A human pump is not strong enough, I tried before i bought a vacuum pump.

I would be watching the kids closely to see how much they are eatjng and going out every couple hours to make sure they get some for the first week anyway. After the first week I think you could let them nurse off one side, let the worse side dry up and supplement with a bottle. Probably will end up being about the same work as just bottlefeeding. 

An udder sling with holes might work, i have the one from hoeggers. You wouldn't get it for a few days though and they need that milk now.

Especially in the heat, they need to be getting enough milk.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

*I don't know anyone who does round the clock bottle feeding*

Does anyone here bottle feed kids round the clock?

When I have a bottle baby, it is 3 times a day then after about a week it is 2 times a day.

When my dam raised kids are about 1 week old I start separating them at night. At first only about 8 hours, but by the time they are 2 weeks old they are separated for 12 hours. I am gone from home for 11 hours a day 5 days a week, so this is what works for me.

So I think your expectations of yourself are pretty harsh. You would have to spend a lot of time taking care of that udder daily, and then supplementing kids who would really rather suckle on mom anyway.

Just a different point of view offered here.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Frozen plastic jugs of water, set where the kids can lean against them during the day, will help with the heat. Just pop them back into the freezer in the evening and they'll be ready the next day.

As you know, ice expands, so don't fill the jugs clear full or have the lid tight. You need room for the expanding water and an escape for the displaced air. Tighten the lids in the morning.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

melbah1 said:


> A human pump is not strong enough, I tried before i bought a vacuum pump.
> 
> I would be watching the kids closely to see how much they are eatjng and going out every couple hours to make sure they get some for the first week anyway. After the first week I think you could let them nurse off one side, let the worse side dry up and supplement with a bottle. Probably will end up being about the same work as just bottlefeeding.
> 
> ...


Great. I just ordered a human pump from Amazon. I was ready about vacuum pumps - made from a car vacuum and sold on ebay - being responsible for blowing teats, so I didn't want to get that one. And we only have 4 goats so I don't need a commercial milker. The kids seem to be taking turns on the right teat only and they are gaining weight and seemed energetic this morning, out exploring. Good yellow poop and plenty of urine.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

mariarose said:


> Does anyone here bottle feed kids round the clock?
> 
> When I have a bottle baby, it is 3 times a day then after about a week it is 2 times a day.
> 
> ...


The "breeder" I bought this goat from claims to feed her bottle babies around the clock, even taking them to town in the truck with her when she has a full day out so that she can feed. Glad to hear you say that's excessive. I just want to make sure the kids get enough, which they seem to be sharing the other teat well, and gaining weight and I was hoping to milk out the bigger side to give her some relief. Love the frozen milk jug idea. We have a fan set up in the barn and I just went out and both little bucks are laying in front of the air stream.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

for a sling....Try and old t shirt..slip her back legs up the arm hole..neck hole on the tail end..use twine rope or strips of leather, old belts work good to attach to the shirt hem area...run up toward neck and tie just under her chin area...then attach a piece to that area and run back over the shoulders to the shirt hem to hold the Neck tie in place..run yet another string from neck tie area under her between front legs to underbelly and tie to shirt hem...cut a small hole just large enough for the tips of each teat...I would reinforce these cuts with a second piece of fabric that does not stretch, like denim...( this of course would need to be done before rigging it on her...so slip the shirt on and mark your spots to cut...sew the second fabric in place, then cut the hole)

to bottle babies, we feed 4 times a day ( 4th bottle around 11 pm) until they are a week-2 weeks old then we go to 3 feedings,...we don't feed over night


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I bottle feed my kids 4 times a day until they are 4 months old, then I drop down to twice a day. I bottle feed them as long as I have milk, usually until they are 7 months old.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've been very fortunate to have few bottle babies, and they just never seem to be newborns. My last ones were 2 weeks old triplets when we had to pull them.

About the vacuum milkers, everyone keeps saying the damage is because of constant suction. Well, that's probably so. But I believe a big problem with them is that the teat cups tend to be way too big. They allow mammary tissue to get sucked into the teat cups. The syringes often used would not be unable to accommodate cow teats. Instead they should only be slightly bigger than a good goat teat is. Much frustration and damage could be avoided simply by using smaller syringes and pausing the pumping once a good flow is established.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

drdolittle said:


> This doe is about 6 years old. This is her 3rd kidding that I KNOW of. When we bought her about 3 years ago she was bred and as she progressed her udder problem became evident. This problem has persisted and is my problem with her current kidding. She just delivered yesterday. The udder is uneven with the left side being much bigger and longer. The udder hangs so low the teat drags nearly on the ground, collecting debris and making it difficult for the kids to nurse. It must be sensitive because she kicks at it and has lacerated the surface with her hoof. She discourages the kids from that side by raising her leg when they come to that side. We tried to hand milk her this pm - much to her dislike - and she seemed to get some relief, accepting the kid when we placed him on the teat. I had to hold the udder up for him to really be able to get to it. I am attempting to attach pictures. So I have 2 questions: Will the other side of the udder / teat, support 2 kids. Would an udder sling work in this case and if so how do I get or make one. The photo on the grass is about 2 weeks before kidding, the one by fencing was tonight, after kidding yesterday. I appreciate any thoughts or input. Thank you. Still think this is the BEST Goat Site on the net. hlala:


Well I want to update this post and ask a few more questions. We have milked the larger side of this udder several times and gotten 8-12 ounces when we should be drawing a quart or more. It is very difficult when she protests so much and we are hand milking. It takes 2 of us...one holding head/horns the other milking and leg is tied because she keeps raising the leg to kick at udder. We have not persisted as the kids have been nursing well from the other side and this side did not seem quite as tight or full. Now because of her long hooves she has re-opened a superficial laceration to the udder and appears to have cut the bottom of the udder near the teat in a flap type injury. Tomorrow we will attempt to tackle the cutting of the hoof to prevent further injury and dressing the wounds. The real question I have is that about 2 days ago I noticed reddish pink fluid on this dam's tail. This would have been about 4-5 days after delivery. Then yesterday and today I noticed a quarter-sized reddish-pink mucus spot on the concrete barn floor. Mother acts fine, eats and drinks fine, nurses and tends kids. No odor noted. Is this normal at 1 week post delivery? No meds or vaccines have been given only electrolytes in her water. Do I need to treat or is this normal?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its normal for new moms to discharge off and on for several weeks...


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

*New mom*



happybleats said:


> its normal for new moms to discharge off and on for several weeks...


Thank you Cathy. I thought it might be but this morning when I went to the barn the spot is the size of a small dessert plate and has little pieces of tissue in it. I had put some oxytetracycline in her electrolyte water but now I noticed the babies sipping at the water too and don't know if this is a good idea. Also with the small bag of oxytetracycline the dosing is inaccurate as it says that the WHOLE bag will do the large water trough for cattle. I just sprinkled a little in. Should I even be concerned? Should I shoot her with some PEN? She acts fine, grazing, nursing, checks on babies. Still very thin in spite of giving her extra grain and alfalfa pellets. Can I worm her with her nursing and with what? I have Ivromectin, Safeguard liquid and Cydectin (purple). What dose? Might help her to gain weight. Oh, so many questions. I had 26 plain old field goats at one time and they just kidded in the field or barn with no attention and I never noticed these things or had these problems. Never lost one to scours. I was too busy working then. Now it seems like the more I do and spend, the worse the outcome. :GAAH:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would not put the oxytetracycline in her water...its not good for her rumen..best to stop it all together...no antibioitcs are needed if she is well otherwise..

as for wormer..which Ivomec do you have? what color are her lower inner eye lids? you want to see deep pink to red..


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