# Hasn't nursed.



## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Doeling almost 4 hours old and hasn't nursed or stood yet. Do I need to step in? Mom is up and eating.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes....the baby needs colostrum from mom but not if the baby is cold. Temp should be at least 100 before eating...I would also suggest some BoSe or sel e gel....does it seem weak?Wobbly? Floppy? Did mom clean it off?

If babies temp is good, try helping him/her to nurse on mom...make sure the teats are not plugged


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

What is BoSe or sel e gel? Very limited on what I can do where the goats are. No thermometer available to check temp. Heat lamp on it.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

At what point do I take into town to house to warm it and feed it colostrum?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Put your finger in kid's mouth. It should be toasty warm.
If so, guide her to the teat.
If mouth not warm bring her in. More instructions follow.
She needs colostrum now if she is warm enough.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Listen to nancyd...she has much more experience than me...

Sometimes a kid is born weak due to selenium deficiency. The sel/e gel is what you would give to help. Your vet would be able to give you BoSe...a stronger version of it.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Is sel e gel available over counter? Should I try and put week baby on second doe? She is trying to help it already but doe 1 won't let it.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

No not 2nd doe. Mama will reject her.
Tie mama up short. If she is not cooperating hold up a rear leg.
How is baby mouth temp?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Is the baby trying to stand at all? Did you feel in its mouth to see if it is warm?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'd try to separate her and mom into their own space, and I'd work with them both. A rule of thumb with us is, if baby hasn't nursed within 20-30 minutes of being born/cleaned, and isn't trying to get up and get to the teat, then we step in to help. I admit, I am lousy at getting a weak/stubborn baby on the teat...my husband has the 'magic touch' lol

Selenium E Gel is over the counter, it's not expensive, but most places don't sell it that I know of, so you usually have to order it. Problem with that being, your not going to get it before Christmas.
You can get selenium tablets at the store and Vitamin E gel caps <dollar general has them, most grocery stores>. Others might have a better way of giving it to baby. I think the way I did it was I dissolved one tablet of each in a little bit of water in a syringe, and slowly/carefully made baby drink it from the syringe. That was when I was learning and didn't have another choice.

I'd definitely get the gel, and keep it on hand, it's good stuff! We use BoSe right now which is vet Rx, and while I do like it, I prefer the gel for newborns.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Windyway how are things going? Is her mouth warm?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Most farm stores will carry the gel. IF the baby is warm, mom won't let it nurse, and the other doe has enough milk you could try grafting her over - but unless the other doe just kidded she will have regular milk instead of colostrum which is what the baby needs right now.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Mouth seems warm. Baby has tried to stand. She seems like the rear legs don't want to hold her.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Definitely needs selenium.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

So will selenium and vit e and colostrum solve the lack of ability to get up? The baby from doe 2 that was born a couple of hours after the problem baby seems to be fine. Can one baby have a selenium issue and the other one not?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

We can have all sorts of combinations of this.
But the most important thing is to get colostrum into her.
Don't worry about her not finding her legs yet.
Get her to teat, tickle her rear end.

The other thing you can do is milk colostrum into a syringe sleeve, draw it up & dribble it slowly down the back side of her mouth. 
Does she have suck reflex?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I believe you can get the sel e gel at a feed store. If not, you would need to call a vet and get some through them since having it shipped would take too long...

I believe it will go a long way if the kid gets selenium and colostrum...asap


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

If I can't get gel or BoSe tonight what are my options? Do I get vitamins and dissolve like was suggested earlier?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Get them later. Get doeling her colostrum.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Is she getting any colostrum yet?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'd definitely get the colostrum into her first if she were ours, then worry about the selenium.
Yes, you can have one baby deficient, and many others just fine. Our first kidding season we had a baby that was deficient, but his twin wasn't, and other babies weren't either.

I've never seen selenium e gel for goats at the stores, not even TSC. Must be a common item where you all are at? This is horse country...

If you can't get a supplement from a vet, or farm store, you can definitely get the tablets and use those from the grocery. Just a little bit, I don't know the dosage maybe someone else does? We have boer/percentage boers, and gave one of each, then a month later we started them on the gel.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok she has nursed a little. Can't get anything from the vet till maybe on monday. Will have to try tablets. Did give her some nutridrench. Should I give her more now that she can suck it down? Wonder if that would help energy.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be milking mom and getting her to take a bottle of colostrum. She needs the colostrum.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Is she going to be able to nurse on her own do you think? If not she will need to be fed by you. Not sure how often at first, but she will need more than just one little bit.

Are the goats housed far away from you? If you need to bottle feed...here is a guideline for you I found online...there are probably many more people on here who can tell you better, but this is a start...see how much colostrum is needed? The bracketed [] amounts are for mini's.

Day one- 2-4oz. [1-3] (per feeding) colostrum, every 2-3 hours.
* Day two- 3 oz. [2-3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8-10 times a day
* Day three- 4 oz.[3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8 times a day
* Day four- 6oz. [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
* Week One - 6-8oz [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
* For the next 2 weeks-6-8oz.[4-6] (per feeding) whole milk, 6 times a day.
* For the next 2 months-10-12 oz.[6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 4-5 times a day.
* For the next 1 month or 6 weeks-10-12 oz. [6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 3 times a day.
* 10-12 oz. [8-10] (per feeding) once a day for the next 2 months.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

As said by Nancy I would worry about milk for now.....don't over do it on the nutradrench. The kid will be fine without selenium for now.......I've even had very weak back legs that come out of it without anything so worry about the selenium when you get time  try and measure how much she is eating if its from a bottle that way you know if she is getting too much or not enough. If your holding mom while she nurses then watch babies tummy you don't want it really rounded more.of just a full look.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok she made it through the night. No stores have any of the selenium supplements so off to the grocery store for vitamins. What are the suggestions for dissolving the tablets and administering that. I am still worried that she is not getting enough colostrum because of how uncoordinated she seems. She will latch on if I put the teat in her mouth and nurse but not sure other wise. She I mix a bottle of powder colostrum up and bottle her. The doe is a pygmy so milking her is not going to be easy.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Glad she made it through the night. I have never done the vitamins so I can't help you there. Can you hold the mom in place for her to get the colostrum for a couple days? I know lots of people on here milk small goats....maybe they can help.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'd put her on mom as much as you can, get that colostrum in her from mom. If she doesn't improve then you could supplement with a bottle after she has had the colostrum the first couple of days. Hopefully by then she's doing better and can nurse on her own. 
At least, that's my opinion and what I would do. I do whatever I can to keep them on mom vs. bottle feeding though. Because of that out of all the kids we've had, we've only had 1 bottle baby, but she was a runt & triplet and her mama didn't have the milk for 3.

I don't know how much is a safe amount, I'll see if I can find out. I know we gave our baby 1 selenium tablet and 1 vit e gel cap, BUT we have full size goats, so I'd think a pygmy baby might need less.

Biggest thing is keep working with the baby, keep her going/nursing. The more she nurses, hopefully the stronger she'll get


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Pick her up and feel her belly, is it full? If so, she is getting enough.

She needs a Bo-se shot to help her. Pills, orally given isn't going to be as good. 
In the meantime, go out every 2 hours and insure she gets the teat. If she is a bit weak an d unsure where to find it.
If you get the Bo-se from the vet within a few days and give it to her, she shold be OK and get stronger.

You can also give nutradrench to help with energy and give appetite

Stimulate baby by tickling the tailhead area while you are putting her on the teat.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

I can't get the gel or BoSe soon enough. Should I dissolve some vitamins and use a syringe to administer orally?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

That's what I would do if nothing else is available. BUT, I'm not sure how much you should give. You don't want to give too much, but you need to be able to give enough to make it effective.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Maybe start a new thread asking the equivalence for the tablets....might get more responses. Good luck!


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Nobody is replying to my new thread. How do I dose the selenium? I only have tablets for this. I also have vitamin e in a liquid.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

What strength are the Selenium tablets?


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

200 mcg


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Do I need to dose with the vitamin e with the selenium?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay you want to give 1 tablet and 300 mg of vitamin E. I'd crush it into a bit of honey and feed it that way.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, the selenium needs the vitamin E to work right.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

And this will work for a pygmy.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, your selenium pills are only 1/5th of the strength of my Bo.Se so there is no way it will be too much. That is half the amount of vitamin E I give my full size kids.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Thank you.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Will I need to dose her once a day? How often?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Just once and then if she isn't better in a couple days once more.


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## Windywayfarmer (Dec 11, 2013)

Again thank you. And a big thanks to everyone else.


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## Jmuldrow11 (Oct 18, 2019)

Okay just f


nancy d said:


> Put your finger in kid's mouth. It should be toasty warm.
> If so, guide her to the teat.
> If mouth not warm bring her in. More instructions follow.
> She needs colostrum now if she is warm enough.


Just found this thread and it applies. Came out this morning to our new combined herd and found a baby who was warm in the mouth went to get stuff to feed it and came back and it is now cold in the mouth and not eating still. Any suggestions and what I should do next.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Take baby inside. You can put it in a plastic trash bag and submerge in very warm water, taking care to keep it's head out of the water, or microwave a bag of dry rice or beans, wrap in a towel and put it under it's tummy. Some people also "tent" a hair dryer under a towel. You need to bring the core up - take a rectal temp of baby. Should be at least 100.5 or greater before feeding, otherwise , feeding a cold baby can kill it. After baby is warm, check for a suck reflex. If there isn't one, you can tube or syringe feed, being careful that baby is swallowing and the colostrum is not getting into the lungs. Milk out the mom and use the colostrum for feeding. Let us know how things are.


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## Jmuldrow11 (Oct 18, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Take baby inside. You can put it in a plastic trash bag and submerge in very warm water, taking care to keep it's head out of the water, or microwave a bag of dry rice or beans, wrap in a towel and put it under it's tummy. Some people also "tent" a hair dryer under a towel. You need to bring the core up - take a rectal temp of baby. Should be at least 100.5 or greater before feeding, otherwise , feeding a cold baby can kill it. After baby is warm, check for a suck reflex. If there isn't one, you can tube or syringe feed, being careful that baby is swallowing and the colostrum is not getting into the lungs. Milk out the mom and use the colostrum for feeding. Let us know how things are.


K. Headed home with it now. Have it pressed to skin to start warming. Will try warm water. Warm to my touch is okay right?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Very good advice. This post came to my email, so thought I'd add that I've had some small/runt triplets do this a time or two... haven't lost one (yet).
I throw some towels in the dryer, fill up the kitchen sink with really hot water (not scalding but very hot), put them in a trash bag with head out so they don't get wet. If I have a helper I have them grab the long plastic clothes basket, put the heating pad in it, turn it on to medium heat. Once baby's mouth is warmer or they are at least acting more alert, I put them on a towel on the heating pad, and cover them with the remaining warm towels - making sure they are sitting upright. I take rectal temp, if it's above 100F, I syringe feed a little colostrum, if they aren't interested, I slowly just syringe feed as long as they are swallowing. I've never had to tube a kid with the exception of years ago a preemie who sadly wasn't going to make it (but we had to try). 

If... you have Thiamine or B-Complex, but a little bit in a syringe and squirt in their mouth - it can wake them up. A little Dexamethasone under the tongue can also help. I've saved babies doing this who I truly believe would have died otherwise.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Jmuldrow11 said:


> went to get stuff to feed it and came back


What stuff did you go get to feed the baby? Is it a newborn or older than freshly birthed?


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## Jmuldrow11 (Oct 18, 2019)

Had it warm water for 45 min and she moved some but doesn’t attempt to get up still and still cool in the mouth warmer then before but still cool.


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## Jmuldrow11 (Oct 18, 2019)

NigerianNewbie said:


> What stuff did you go get to feed the baby? Is it a newborn or older than freshly birthed?


Got colostrum supplement mom is wild and couldn't get her to let us. Not sure if she done yet either.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jmuldrow11 said:


> Got colostrum supplement mom is wild and couldn't get her to let us. Not sure if she done yet either.


Supplement or replacement? If it's just a supplement you'll definitely need to get a hold of mom and get some of the real stuff from her for the baby. The Supplement just aids limited availability to the real stuff, but isn't truly a replacement.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Keep working on getting her warmer, sometimes it takes a long time - and yes - whatever you have to do, get the real stuff from mom.


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## Jmuldrow11 (Oct 18, 2019)

Sorry, it is a replacement. She didn’t make it, think we took to long to react and tried to feed her before we saw the “warm first” post. She might have also been premature. Thanks for all the quick responses I will keep reading and keep trying to save the next one.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Bummer. I'm really sorry you lost her  At least you tried, that's all you can do.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Sorry for the loss of a life.  But you tried, and you learned. You will be much more able to do something good for the next newborn, who, we all hope, will need no help at all, getting on its feet by itself, finding the udder, getting the Life Elixir, and hopping around like a basket ball in 24 hours!

(Before which you will have the opportunity to "brain wash" it into believing you are a very nice person, so that it will not be as "wild" as the mother of the first one!) (By the way, how is the udder of the mother? Does she have another kid helping her to get rid of the milk?)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> Sorry for the loss of a life.  But you tried, and you learned. You will be much more able to do something good for the next newborn, who, we all hope, will need no help at all, getting on its feet by itself, finding the udder, getting the Life Elixir, and hopping around like a basket ball in 24 hours!
> 
> (Before which you will have the opportunity to "brain wash" it into believing you are a very nice person, so that it will not be as "wild" as the mother of the first one!) (By the way, how is the udder of the mother? Does she have another kid helping her to get rid of the milk?)


Hi....we are a family working together with our goats.....no, the Momma didn't get full udders and she only birthed one.....I believe she was preemie because she never stood up......it was so sad but yes, we learned......


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, it is sad every time. Luckily, because if it isn't, then we are not human any more!


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I am sorry for your loss. Dont dwell too much on the loss focus on what you learned. you learned what you need on hand for kidding. you learned to be proactive. you learned that you have great support here on TGS. the knowledge on this site is amazing. 
Goats are brutal teachers but the lessons you learned will save many lives in the future.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

Wow! Thank you! I needed to hear that...we lost the little Nigerian Dwarf this morning. No symptoms other than yesterday she would stand alone and bleat at nothing. I had read that they would do that when in labor and we thought she was starting labor....now she is dead....we quarantined her so she would have privacy. The other goats were separated with a gate so they could be close but not inside with her. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG? We have lost 4 of our original group of 18 that we bought.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

That was awful! I can only hope you get the knowledge you need to prevent more of the same kind ...

A change in behaviour is always a warning. And you noticed that! Well done so far!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> Wow! Thank you! I needed to hear that...we lost the little Nigerian Dwarf this morning. No symptoms other than yesterday she would stand alone and bleat at nothing. I had read that they would do that when in labor and we thought she was starting labor....now she is dead....we quarantined her so she would have privacy. The other goats were separated with a gate so they could be close but not inside with her. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG? We have lost 4 of our original group of 18 that we bought.


You need to get a vet out and find out what's going on with your herd. We aren't vets, we aren't there to see the goats and keeping trying to diagnose over the Internet isn't helping your herd they need more hands on and testing. I'm sorry your losing your goats but there's a bigger problem going on than Internet advice can help with IMHO.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm said:


> Wow! Thank you! I needed to hear that...we lost the little Nigerian Dwarf this morning. No symptoms other than yesterday she would stand alone and bleat at nothing. I had read that they would do that when in labor and we thought she was starting labor....now she is dead....we quarantined her so she would have privacy. The other goats were separated with a gate so they could be close but not inside with her. WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG? We have lost 4 of our original group of 18 that we bought.


Lets start with are the goats that died showing the same symptoms?
do they have diarrhea or cough are they loosing weight did they have a temp or are there poisonous plants they are eating? what are the ages of the goats they could just be old.

infact you may want to start a new thread so we can help.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

fivemoremiles said:


> Lets start with are the goats that died showing the same symptoms?
> do they have diarrhea or cough are they loosing weight did they have a temp or are there poisonous plants they are eating? what are the ages of the goats they could just be old.
> 
> infact you may want to start a new thread so we can help.


They have multiple threads going right now.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm* get a vet involved, it could be so many things.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> You need to get a vet out and find out what's going on with your herd. We aren't vets, we aren't there to see the goats and keeping trying to diagnose over the Internet isn't helping your herd they need more hands on and testing. I'm sorry your losing your goats but there's a bigger problem going on than Internet advice can help with IMHO.


Understood but closest goat vet is an hour away and will not make house calls. We have spoken by phone and followed his advice. We took poop samples so we will see what they say.


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

fivemoremiles said:


> Lets start with are the goats that died showing the same symptoms?
> do they have diarrhea or cough are they loosing weight did they have a temp or are there poisonous plants they are eating? what are the ages of the goats they could just be old.
> 
> infact you may want to start a new thread so we can help.


The only symptoms that have repeatedly shown are cloudy eyes, loss of vision for a few days corrected by colloidal Silver. Truly no other symptoms have been exhibited. The only different behavior was the 2nd kid (2 months old) began being ignored by Momma and was dead 2 days later. Herd appears more stable today......


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## MuldrowBeeandGoatFarm (Oct 25, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> That was awful! I can only hope you get the knowledge you need to prevent more of the same kind ...
> 
> A change in behaviour is always a warning. And you noticed that! Well done so far!


Getting to know each of them has helped. We have learned who is the Leader and who is her Second......we have watched them form little clicks and who know is lonely.....not sure how to fix the lonely part yet......the lonely one lost her baby and her sister days apart...heartbreaking......but she is coming around. Many of our goats have never been touched or shown human affection....we plan on changing that but it takes time for them to trust us....


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

You are doing well so far, in my opinion.


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