# LGD prob



## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

Our neighbors have an aggressive dog. Before we got our LGD he would viciously run up to the fence and attack it while I was near by. Their dog has bit 3 people and cannot leave the property. When we got our LGD puppy he would do the same and our LGD puppy would ignore it. 

One day our LGD decided to fight back and I haven't been able to get him to stop since. He is only 8 months old and I want to stop this. What can I do!? Yesterday I garbed at him to stop fighting and he turned around and mouthed me. He instantly knew that was wrong and I could tell by the look on his face that he didn't mean to but then he went back to a barking frenzy. It happened again that day and he mouthed me a second time. No breaking of the skin but it did not please me to see his behavior. 

Somedays they don't bark at all at each other. Yesterday they barked all day. Somedays it is only my LGD that barks and the neighbors dog could care less but it is never the other way around. If the neighbors dog barks he goes into full threat mode. They used to lick each other through the fence and were sort of buds even with the other dogs vicious barking.
Our female LGD tries to stop it too but usually just gives up. She almost never barks. 

Any suggestions on how to stop this? He is really pushing my buttons and getting defiant. Then he is a as sweet as can be to me and flops over in my lap and would never hurt me. Then when I try to stop him he mouthed me. So what is going on!?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are both dogs unaltered/intact males? Is the fence right on the property line or is it on your property?


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## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

I am not sure about their dog. Now that you mention it I was certain he was but something they said to me about how if you neutered the male they loose all their personality (don't worry I don't believe that) maybe he is not. Mine is not and won't be for a wile. He is not developed yet as he is a slow to mature breed but we already have people inquiring about puppies. Once puppies come he will be. I also know that a lot of people think they should wait until the LGDS are fully developed before altering. I don't know how true that is but it docent matter anyway because we want puppies. 

He is amazing with people and with the goats. At the vet he played for 10 minutes with a tiny 4 month old, yes female, puppy and he was so gentle. I geuss if that is the problem then no amount of correction will fix it until he gets altered. Or is there something I can do?

The fence is right on the property line. They don't seem to care about the dogs barking and never correct or call their dog off. Honestly, the dog's can't hurt each other because we have tacked up a smaller mesh fence but it certainly makes things more hectic and is unnecessary. It is not that its an issue of life/death or of an angry neighbor. They don't care at all. Mostly I am upset that he mouthed me when I tried to stop him and that he does not respond to me telling him to stop barking. He has lived next to that dog since he was 8 weeks old. Our female, our goats, and our other dogs have learned to ignore the neighbor dog and I want him to ignore as well. 

They are really nice neighbors and their daughter comes over every day to play with the kid goats and our LGDs. Our LGDs are not left on their own like a lot of people do. I mean they don't come in the house and they are locked in with the goats but we spend quite a bit of time with them.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm certainly no expert, but my guess is that he has determined this other dog is a threat and is "doing his job". We have a similar situation, and my male HATES even the smell of this other dog! As for the mouthing, I think that's what is called a "restrained bite". I wonder if he is so focused on "his job" (driving off this other dog) that when you touch him his first instinct might be that an attack is coming from another direction. It is commendable that his response is a restrained bite, and I don't think you're going to change that. You say he "turned around" to mouth you, suggesting you are approaching him from behind (or at least out of his line of vision). Have you (mentally) backed off from the situation to see if there's a different way to approach him other than from behind his ears? 

In our situation, as our dog matured and became the size of a mountain lion (quite literally!) the other dog eventually determined that he was in over his head and quit coming around! In this case the lack of fence worked to our advantage, because they could get together and "settle" things! Now we have a hot wire which keeps our dog on our side. But the situation went on for maybe 9 months before the other dog gave up!


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## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

Wow when you said "the other dog was in over his head" we are actually seeing that. Our LGD is getting much bigger and the frequency of the other dog starting the fights is less but when they start its hard to stop.

He is going to be a small dog, relatively speaking. He is only 67 lbs at 8 months and the vet does not think he will reach 100. He has the biggest paws I have ever seen. I am not sure what he is mixed with. We were told Pyrneese/Akbash. Regardless it is an effective mix if something else is in there. I guess for what he lacks in size he makes up in bark and determination. He has ear medication and he can literally stand up with me sitting on top of him. I weigh nearly fifty pounds more. Some days he gets along beautifully with the neighbor dog. I just wish I knew what was setting him off. 

I did come up from behind. I could not reach his head as he is longer then I am tall and I grabbed his butt. The "bite" was very restrained as it was gentle enough to not hurt me. I didn't know there was such thing as a restrianed bite. I am glad to know that it is an instinctual thing and that he was able to quickly tell it was me. I also realized when you said did you come up from behind, that he might have thought I was his partner. She will come up and bite him when he fence fights. He always turns around and bites back in annoyance. 

I was mostly upset about the bite but now I am not so much anymore. I know he really loves me because he melts when I hold him. I was just taken aback I guess. Thanks for the incite.

Also you said hot wire. I forgot about that! I will try putting some up at base and barking head high for when hes on his hind legs. They are very responsive to our electric goat netting and won't come within five feet of it. I bet he would learn very quickly not to touch the fence with that on and we have a fence system can power 9 miles of netting. That might be an easy solution. 

Sometimes I forget that they are only 8 months old. I also forget they are not healers. Our heelers were 100xs worse at this age but 100x's more perceptive of us. They are really only huge fuzzy puppies still learning their place.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

kanis said:


> Wow when you said "the other dog was in over his head" we are actually seeing that. Our LGD is getting much bigger and the frequency of the other dog starting the fights is less but when they start its hard to stop.


Yeah - keep in mind that historically these dogs were developed to take on lions, wolves, bear. What's a measly dog (in our case a pit bull cross!) in view of that!



kanis said:


> I was mostly upset about the bite but now I am not so much anymore. I know he really loves me because he melts when I hold him. I was just taken aback I guess. Thanks for the incite.


A good dog (IMO) will *never* bite its owner except in extreme circumstances. Years ago our family had a boxer - wonderful family dog. He got into a scrap - badly outnumbered and had his abs ripped open. But the other wounds were so glaring, no one noticed that. When mom and the vet picked him up to put him on the exam table, mom reached under his belly and he snapped. Again, a restrained bite, but no one blamed him after the abdominal wounds were discovered!



kanis said:


> Sometimes I forget that they are only 8 months old. I also forget they are not healers. Our heelers were 100xs worse at this age but 100x's more perceptive of us. They are really only huge fuzzy puppies still learning their place.


Really! "Huge fuzzy puppies still learning their place" An invaluable insight! Doesn't negate the need for training and positive corrections, but helps us to see the world a bit more thru their eyes! Best of luck to you!


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

kanis said:


> Some days he gets along beautifully with the neighbor dog. I just wish I knew what was setting him off.


Another thought hit me -- have you observed any different circumstances on the "off" days vs the "on" days? For example, are you or any others of his human herd out there when he goes off? In that case, I'd say he's protecting you! Just a thought.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

A dog in a fight, if you try to break it up, has its brain off and he turned to bite you because he was in "bite mode", not because he wanted to hurt you. Have to learned the safest way to break up a dog fight? https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/breaking-dogfight

I think the only good solution is to make sure these dogs do not have an opportunity to meet. If their dog is breaking out into your property, call animal control.


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

We have a Great Pyrenees male that used to do nearly the same thing, in fact, he would try to bite the neighbor's dog through the fence and would bite the fence trying to get to them. However, he has toned down somewhat from when he was around 8 mo. old, and the other dog has also learned his place now. These dogs were bred to be protectors and if he views the neighbor's dog as a threat for whatever reason, I think perhaps the best thing would be just for you to let the dog do what he thinks best.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth. Good luck!


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