# I have decided to breed outrageous chickens



## goathiker

I've decided to get my NPIP certification and work on the ultimate poodle chicken for town owners. 
The goals will be outrageous hair-do, good egg production, and gentle accepting temperament.
They will need to do well in confinement housing and have a chatty outgoing personality. 

I have an idea of how to do it. Ordering breeding stock very soon.


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## Tanya

Ooh I cannot wait to see what you can show us. Good genwtics is always the key. Seabeites are too possesive and cheeky, verkeerde veer are to quiet but have good egg production, silky's are temperamental layers....


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## goathiker

Silkies aren't very hardy either. They catch every sniffle within a 5 mile radius. 
No, I think small standards that lay medium eggs would be more attractive. Especially if said townie wants to walk them on leashes or use chicken diapers. Bantams are more difficult to find cute things for.


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## Tanya

goathiker said:


> Silkies aren't very hardy either. They catch every sniffle within a 5 mile radius.
> No, I think small standards that lay medium eggs would be more attractive. Especially if said townie wants to walk them on leashes or use chicken diapers. Bantams are more difficult to find cute things for.


 i want to see a Bantam in diapers or on leashes.


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## FizzyGoats

I can’t wait to see what you breed. Poodle chickens. Love it. And when I see pics of people walking and/or putting costumes/clothes on their chickens I just can’t help smiling. My Rhode Island Reds would have none of it. They’d beat me to death with their wings and peck and claw me, mainly because I got them as adults and they’re half wild. 

So what stock are you thinking of starting with?


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## ksalvagno

That will be cool! Can't wait to see what you produce.


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## goathiker

Hm, think I'm going to keep zipped on the breeds. Off to read genetics charts lol.


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## FizzyGoats

Understandable. Have fun!


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## goathiker

I have my breeding stock picked out. 
The first part will be to breed 3 separate lines of Sapphires, these are leghorn/crested cream legbar. These will be heterozygous for blue eggs and crested. Unfortunately they will also be barred 😕
At the same time I'll breed my blue leghorn hen to my salmon faverolles. These won't be used unless I get a couple with white eggs or I decide to do a green egg line. I just want to see what happens lol.

Then it will be time for the super secret never gonna tell breed.


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## FizzyGoats

Oh the suspense!

I had to Google most of the breeds and oh my gosh, can’t wait to see what comes out of your Franken-chicken lab, lol! They are going to be so cool looking.


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## goathiker

Unfortunately most of the chickens participating in this study are way too young to do much with lol.
This year is just raising breeding stock and getting enough breeding areas set up, working out a color code for marking lineage, and getting the cockerel batchelor pens integrated. 
Good basic infrastructure from the beginning will go a long way.


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## MellonFriend

So cool! Do you have a plan for what you will name this new breed? Will you call them poodle chickens?😆


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## BarnOwl

Good luck! Looking forward to hearing about your project as it progresses!


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## CaramelKittey

Hope all goes well! Since the offspring will be barred, are you planning for the poodle chickens to be autosexing? 😁 And I have to say I love the name. I think I need a Poodle Chicken. 💕


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## goathiker

No because sexlinks only work if the female is barred and the male is solid or the female carries gold. Sexlinks don't retain their type. 
Autosexing breeds have a sexlinks chromosome that carries generation to generation such as leg color, feather patterns, eyeliner, etc.
I'll already have 4 genetic sequences to worry about crest, beard/muff, comb, and egg pigmentation. 

With all things being equal it would probably be easier to track the blue egg gene with the attached pea comb gene rather than using a chicken breed where they're separated. 

Then I wouldn't have to look at icky barred chickens either lol.


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## goathiker

The barred chickens is a standing joke between myself and DH. We used to show against each other in 4-H. His barred rocks and my Rhode islands.


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## FizzyGoats

That’s funny. So who usually did better at the shows? 
This is all intriguing to me and totally above my head. I know next to nothing except I adore my RIR adult hens. They are my crazy, fluffy dinosaurs. And I’m just hoping to get the baby poults and chicks I have to adulthood alive and healthy. 
I seriously can’t wait to someday see your poodle chickens.


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## Tanya

Ok but what abou cocka poodles???


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## goathiker

Cocka poodles will become baked chicken. The best thing about breeding chickens is that you can eat your mistakes lol.


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## Tanya

Oh boy. That is true.


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## goathiker

So should I start another thread to write out the genetics stuff that I'm learning as it relates to the project?
I can already see 2 different directions I could go.


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## FizzyGoats

I thinks it’s fine here. If you want to start a new thread, just post a heads up here in case we miss it somehow.


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> No because sexlinks only work if the female is barred and the male is solid or the female carries gold. Sexlinks don't retain their type.
> Autosexing breeds have a sexlinks chromosome that carries generation to generation such as leg color, feather patterns, eyeliner, etc.
> I'll already have 4 genetic sequences to worry about crest, beard/muff, comb, and egg pigmentation.
> 
> With all things being equal it would probably be easier to track the blue egg gene with the attached pea comb gene rather than using a chicken breed where they're separated.
> 
> Then I wouldn't have to look at icky barred chickens either lol.


Makes sense, thank you for the explanation! I always get them mixed up. Are you planning for them to be vaulted or not? I've been hearing that Silkies with vaults actually have exposed brains beneath the skin whereas Polish don't. Polish skulls tend to look more like swiss cheese. 😝 If you do choose for them to be vaulted, I'd be interested to see whether or not their brains are exposed beneath the skin or if the skull covers it. I've been getting into Appenzeller Spitzhaubens and so far I've gotten ones with vaults and ones without and I've heard from many that it is very difficult to breed the vault out, which is my goal. Trying to breed out the vaults in my silkies too.


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## goathiker

What? You don't just buy them the cute little motorcycle helmets they make for them? Lol.

I'm not using silkie, polish, houdan, spitzhauben, Sultan, Appenzeller, Crevecoeur, Brabanter, or Crested bantams. 😝 figure that one out lol.

Breeding stock should be shipped tomorrow. Will be here Friday or Saturday. It's a long trip unfortunately. I haven't had any trouble shipping from the midwest so they should be fine.


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## FizzyGoats

Is that why they have helmets? I never knew that. I just thought it was cute. Lol. 

How exciting. You’ll have to let us know when they arrive and how they’re doing.


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> What? You don't just buy them the cute little motorcycle helmets they make for them? Lol.
> 
> I'm not using silkie, polish, houdan, spitzhauben, Sultan, Appenzeller, Crevecoeur, Brabanter, or Crested bantams. 😝 figure that one out lol.
> 
> Breeding stock should be shipped tomorrow. Will be here Friday or Saturday. It's a long trip unfortunately. I haven't had any trouble shipping from the midwest so they should be fine.


Haha! I never thought about it like that! The motorcycle helmets are adorable. 😂 I’m breeding against the vault and so far most of mine haven’t had a vault. It’s going to be a loooong project but thankfully vault size really doesn’t relate to crest size. 

And I’m stumped! Lol! I have two ideas but crests are small on both. And you probably aren’t using gamefowl, right? (Flarry Eyed Gray)

Hope all the birds arrived safe and sound!


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## goathiker

The hatch date was pushed back to the 24th. So, more waiting. 

The breed is a brand new hybrid just offered for the first time this year. There is Houdan in their back ground but are smaller sized and don't have a huge vault nor the high cross bill rate. 
They could be great or a tremendous flop. I thought it might be fun to try them though. They are coming with a small number of Speckled Sussex for seeing eye shepherd hens. SS are very gentle with flock mates usually. 

There's also some hatchery choice blue eggers. Guess they will be deciding if I use cream legbar or Ameraucana. Plus a different hatchery's line of brown leghorn. 

Now I just need more breeding pens lol.


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> The hatch date was pushed back to the 24th. So, more waiting.
> 
> The breed is a brand new hybrid just offered for the first time this year. There is Houdan in their back ground but are smaller sized and don't have a huge vault nor the high cross bill rate.
> They could be great or a tremendous flop. I thought it might be fun to try them though. They are coming with a small number of Speckled Sussex for seeing eye shepherd hens. SS are very gentle with flock mates usually.
> 
> There's also some hatchery choice blue eggers. Guess they will be deciding if I use cream legbar or Ameraucana. Plus a different hatchery's line of brown leghorn.
> 
> Now I just need more breeding pens lol.


Always need more breeding pens! LOL! Never underestimate the amount of pens you will need! There are never enough! I made the mistake of tackling about 9-10 different pure breeds at once, then decided to breed for perfection (meaning I need more pens for more combos and lines) and then decided that more varieties would be "better" (Why did I choose this?! 😂 ) and now there are soooo many pens and still not enough. I currently have 4 silkie pens working on a 5th. This is for Blue/Black/Splash, Buff (and kind of red), a mixed color pen (almost retired hoping to make a paint pen or just use it for other breeds/babies) and Gray/Partridge which is to be separated soon after I get my fancy roosters. 😁

Are they pure Ameraucana? I didn't know any hatcheries offered those. Hope they all arrive safely when they hatch! 😁


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## goathiker

I actually knew the breeder that this hatchery bought out. He raised very nice ameraucana. They started out purebred even if not culled for sop as thoroughly as a breeder would. They separate their ameraucana and easter eggers instead of selling americana lol.
Cream legbar is ameraucana, leghorn, and barred rock so, really it's all about the same. The blue egg surplus is a way to avoid paying $30 per pullet.

Cream legbar can also be a bit aggressive (as a breed) and might peck a poor little tophat roo instead of breeding him. 

I think that the hardest part is going to be keeping or bringing back the v shaped duplex comb. This comb style interferes with the crest the least and adds a quirky look. I don't know, it's all just for fun anyway.


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## CaramelKittey

goathiker said:


> I actually knew the breeder that this hatchery bought out. He raised very nice ameraucana. They started out purebred even if not culled for sop as thoroughly as a breeder would. They separate their ameraucana and easter eggers instead of selling americana lol.
> Cream legbar is ameraucana, leghorn, and barred rock so, really it's all about the same. The blue egg surplus is a way to avoid paying $30 per pullet.
> 
> Cream legbar can also be a bit aggressive (as a breed) and might peck a poor little tophat roo instead of breeding him.
> 
> I think that the hardest part is going to be keeping or bringing back the v shaped duplex comb. This comb style interferes with the crest the least and adds a quirky look. I don't know, it's all just for fun anyway.


Sounds like you have a good solid plan in the works! I’m the worst at remembering which comb is dominant to what but I hope for you that the V-Comb is recessive so you don’t have something else popping up down the line! 😁


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## goathiker

It's co-dominate so heterozygous show the butterfly comb like the swedish flower hen and homozygous show the v. I'm going to have some really weird looking chickens for a while lol.


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## CaramelKittey

Thank you! This will be interesting! Can't wait to see how this project turns out.


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## goathiker

Saddest unboxing ever. I may need to rethink the toppies as only 2 survived. 4 dead toppies, 4 dead ameraucana, 2 dead leghorn, 1 dead cream legbar and 1 dead sussex, that died soon after... Not a happy camper today.
I need to call the hatchery first thing tomorrow. So sad.


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## JML Farms

How terrible! I wonder how long they had been in shipment?


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## BarnOwl

oh no, how sad. So sorry that would be rough.


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## FizzyGoats

I’m sorry. That is a depressing box to open. I hope the few survivors are doing well and that the hatchery tries to make it right. That’s just sad.


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## MellonFriend

No! What a disappointment. I hope the hatchery makes it right.


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## goathiker

Hatchery wants a final count on Saturday because they have a 72 hour guarentee. 
Then they are going to make it right.


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## AndersonRanch

I got that twice. Well the one only 3 survived the next was 100% loss. I can say though the reship they made sure to get it out in the mail a lot faster the second time around. It’s still super sad to open it and see that though and I’m sorry.


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## toth boer goats

I am so sorry.


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## ksalvagno

That is awful.


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## CaramelKittey

Oh no! I’m so sorry, that is so terrible. Poor babies. 😰


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## goathiker

Thanks to Sav-a-chick and blackberry blossom honey, the survivors are stable and doing all the little chicken things they should be.























I'm going to give them another day before I disturb the brooder. Then I can take real pictures that show more than orange blobs lol.


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## FizzyGoats

Well they are really cute orange blobs.  So glad they had you to nurture them back to health. Can’t wait to see more pics!


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## CaramelKittey

Super cute! So glad you could save them! Keep us posted! I’ve never heard of BlackBerry Blossom Honey! I’ll have to look into it.


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## goathiker

Excellent sign tonight. I have to move the light up a half inch or so for days and back for night heat. I was a bit late getting their light moved down and they were screaming their heads off about it. 
Today's countdown of who's left. 

3 blue eggers 
2 Suffolk 
1 toppie
1 leghorn 


I ordered 16, they sent 20. I definitely have a phone date in the morning.


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## FizzyGoats

Wow, that’s a lot of loss. Glad you were able to save some. Let us know how the phone date goes.


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## goathiker

Well, they have ordered a reship for me. I should get an e-mail with a hatch date this week. Or maybe they will just send one when they ship, don't know lol.


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## CaramelKittey

So sad so many were lost, but glad you were able to save a lot of them! Hope the next shipment comes in safe and sound!


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## goathiker

Sorry I didn't update for so long. I had forgotten about memorial day weekend so I left the chicks safe in the brooder until the cookouts and fishing were done lol.

Getting ready to move them after I fill the washing machine. 

The new group of chicks will be sent tomorrow (unless they don't hatch).


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## FizzyGoats

Hopefully we’ll get updated pics once the chicks move into their new digs.  

And I really hope this shipment is way more successful. Let us know how it goes.


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## goathiker

Cleaning the big totes right now, very slowly lol. It's not supposed to jump 30 degrees in 2 days to 94*.


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## FizzyGoats

Wow, that’s a big temperature difference. Last week, our temps were changing 20+ degrees from day to day, sometimes it felt like hour to hour, and I was constantly moving the brooder lamp. At least you know what you’re doing. I was certain I was not going to adjust correctly and make my wee ones sick. They all pulled through fine and I calmed down and stopped checking the thermometers every 15 minutes and now just go by how they are in their area (under light, avoiding light, or evenly spread) and probably only check the thermometer once or twice a day. It helps that mine are older now (4 weeks old). But I hope someday that I can actually feel like I know what I’m doing. 

I can’t wait to see what you’re little ones look like now. I only have boring birds, lol.


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## goathiker

Okay, I'll set up a white light temporarily and take some pictures for you. They haven't sprouted purple feathers or anything though lol.


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## goathiker

Here you go...

Leghorn and Suffex
















Legbar 









Ameraucana 


















And Toppie


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## goathiker

New bigger digs


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## goathiker

The replacement birds are on their way. Godspeed baby girls.


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## ksalvagno

Well, shoot. I'm waiting for the purple feathers.


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## FizzyGoats

Oh my gosh they are cute! I’ve never seen Ameraucana before. That’s a pretty little bird. 

Just wait until the purple feathers come in, lol! No, they are neat looking birds. Can’t wait to see what you come up with using such cool genetics. 

Wishing a safe journey to your new wee ones!


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## goathiker

I have one hidden. After this hatchery mess is over, then I'll show off the purple feathers lol.


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## FizzyGoats

Can’t wait!


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## goathiker

Babies should be here tomorrow. Crossing fingers that they go through Salem instead of Portland this time. 
The whole thing makes no sense. I order birds from Iowa and Ohio all the time. These birds were from the same basic area. 
They did send them late in the evening this time. Maybe it will make a difference.


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## FizzyGoats

I hope so. I’ll keep my fingers crossed too. Hope those babies arrive in good health. And not just so I can see pictures of them.


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## goathiker

They did come through Portland after all. They are already on the delivery truck headed out. Quick as can be on the cargo plane and all night travel this time. That should make a big difference, no overly hot mail truck over I-5.


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## goathiker

And now I have to be up at 6:00 🤦‍♂️


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## FizzyGoats

Did they arrive?


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## goathiker

I'll go through them in a little while. They need to eat and nap.


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## goathiker

_yawn_ 
That was a good nap lol.
When I got up the new kids were running all over chasing a fly that got into their brooder. They also pooped everywhere and need cleaned out already.


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## ksalvagno

Much better than the last batch.


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## goathiker

Yep, probably due to the heat pack that was not in the first batch, plus traveling at night. Looks like
3 leghorn
2 suffex
5 toppies
3 ameraucana

One of the suffex doesn't trust the floor not to move so, she won't lay down and relax. Hopefully she will get it before she exhausts herself.


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## FizzyGoats

Look at those little fluff balls.  So relieved this batch is alive. Hope the one little Sussex relaxes soon.


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## goathiker

Does anyone know the genetics of these? Two of the toppies are like this.









This one also has a white crest


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## NigerianNewbie

5 toes, dark legs, white crest, dark color  Silkie bantam and Legbar?


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## goathiker

Found it 

Polydactylism is a dominant gene with *variable* *expression*, some of which is controlled by additional unrelated genes.
This means that a chick with the gene will probably have 5 toes. But can have 6 & 6 toes, 6 & 4 toes, 5 & 6 toes and especially 5 & 4 toes. The gene can even express as a single extra toenail.

Their breed is literally Toppy. Yes I'm teasing you just a little.


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## MellonFriend

Our salmon faverolles have extra toes. When we crossed them with our other breeds we got some very funky numbered toed chickens. Definitely outrageous!


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## CaramelKittey

Very cool! And so glad this batch arrived safe and sound! ❤ How were the toppies created? I have a friend who experiments with 5 toed breeds X 4 toed breeds and it’s so odd to see birds with 5-4 toes. It’s not too rare to see 6 toed silkies even from two 5-toed parents. Some breeders cull the 6-toed offspring and others say it doesn’t matter. I haven’t run into it yet thankfully. Are you planning to breed out the 5 toes?


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## goathiker

I'm just not going to worry about the toes. That's one thing that can just work itself out. 

These are supposed to be pretty small 4/5 lbs. I suspect Sultan for the size and muffs. Something to increase hardiness, Polish? 
Something to increase egg production and foraging ability?
It will be interesting to see them grow up. The internet is a complete blank on them. I can't even find an adult image.


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## goathiker

Okay, so there is one chick that I didn't count as living to the hatchery. She was essentially dead in the box and would not have survived if I had not had the resources for a hospital tank and a family that doesn't freak about sick animals in the house. 
Right or wrong, I'm considering her my payback for the trouble and, had they not made it right, she would have paid some of the shipping costs. 

Gonna go clean up everyone's brooder and wash butts/feet. I'll get you a sneak peek then.


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## Tanya

Oooh... we want to see pictures


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## goathiker

Sorry, my daughter had a goat emergency. Will be back after sleep. Gah, it's 5AM.


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## Tanya

Those danged goats


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## goathiker

Wow, a lot has happened in the last few days. Two separate incidents of almost frozen chicks, my daughter's group. Both times I managed to save the worst ones. The first, from her broody hen, I also kept 😝.
The second was a goat breaking into her chick shed and spreading them around the yard. At least that's the theory.
Went and picked up my new ram. He's doing okay but, I'm a bit worried about all this rain right off the bat.
Anyway, the chick that I held back hasn't changed color on me and is still a lavender ameraucana.

Just for you guys, I made a purple chicken one of the evenings.


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## FizzyGoats

Lol. Love the purple chick. 

You’ve been busy. Glad you were able to save some nearly frozen littles. I hope your ram continues to do well even with the rain.


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## ksalvagno

I hope everyone does well for you.


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## CaramelKittey

I hope everything turns out ok! You have been busy!


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## goathiker

Been down with bronchitis. Getting into trouble on backyard chickens. I may have let too much of my charming personality show lol.
Really though, get baby ducks, get 10 week old spaniel pup, pup kills baby ducks. Seems pretty normal for the breed what does she want, a participation trophy?


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## ksalvagno

Hope you feel better soon. Why are people so stupid?


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## goathiker

I don't know. I mean almost all puppies would play with the fluffy squeaky toys but, her question was literally how do I make my bird hunting dog quit hunting birds? 🤦‍♂️


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## Tanya

And I thought I had no brain cells... 🤦‍♀️


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## ksalvagno

Oh my.


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## goathiker

Well, I needed a couple toppie roosters, apparently I have 4. 
More breeding pens pronto lol


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## Tanya

🤣 oh those darned roosters


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## goathiker

Well, now I'm not sure. They're at that age lol.
Stags are going to get tethered for a while. I don't think a bachelor pen will work until I find my feather plucker. 
Oregon law does allow for tethering chickens and I know how to build the huts.


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## ksalvagno

Stinkers.


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## Feira426

Just found this thread - what an intriguing project! I’m excited to see what you come up with!


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## goathiker

Unfortunately this project is kinda at arrears now. Due to my husband's passing, I had to cut back to the powerhouse layers and not feed what my egg customers don't pay for. 

I was able to keep the genetics to breed Isabella leghorns that lay light blue eggs. 

I'll be able to have some fun with them anyway.


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## goathiker

I may try again later. All my "straight run" toppies were roosters. I needed females to get the lavender color in the beginning stock.

As soon as things are running smoothly again I'll think about it some more.


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## Tanya

It will happen at the right time.


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## DavidJo23

My mother has five chicks that are all grown up now, They are one week short of six months old. We have been been trying to find information on feeding chickens milk. Some say they can't digest it. Some say that they can digest skim milk. Does anyone know about this? Now, my mother uses some feed and organic grains from a feeder, but she is thinking about adding milk to the ration.


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## Tanya

Please dont add milk to their feed. It causes fatthy deposites in the crop that cannot be digested. It contains too much fat for their bodies. They digest insects because there isnt much fat content.


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