# Did my Doe abort? Is she even pregnant? Help!!!



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Background info... I have a Doe (called Daisy) which I purchased 3years ago with twin kids at foot. I was told she was around 3years old. I purchased her for milking and I was giving the milk to my son at the time (he was 6mths old and intolerant to regular formula, I had breastfed all along). The kids were sold when they got bigger and I continued to milk Daisy for around 6-8mths. She was bred the next season but had a Phantom pregnancy!! They she got sick with Coccidiosis as a result of a very very wet winter, so I never bred her that season. This year I had given up all hope when one morning I found she had escaped out of my yard, and was in the field next door stood on a mound of earth giving my neighbouring farmers sheep a real song and a dance!! That evening I whisked her off in the trailer to visit mr Buck who is owned by a friend... He did the business... I never scanned or tested for pregnancy but she never noticeably came back in heat... If he caught her that day she would be due March 24th. 

Now to the reason I am here and I have been scouring the net for the last two days!! Saturday I noticed fresh bright red blood on her vulva, not a lot, much the same as a dog in heat, I promptly shut her in and on the advise from my vet on the phone monitored her as he suspected she was going to abort. Eating and drinking as normal. Sunday, same symptoms, lying down more than usual, eating and drinking as normal. By Sunday evening, no blood, a little mucousy discharge, possibly a little swelling of the vulva. Again still eating and drinking as normal. This evening no apparent new discharge, she seems absolutely her normal self!!. I checked for signs of aborted foetus, but unless she discreetly aborted prior to Saturday there isn't one. Any ideas on what this could be? I should also point out, I'm not entirely convinced she is/was pregnant. No obvious signs other than she is a bit wider but I don't trust that as a sign!!!

Your experienced opinions on this matter would be greatly appreciated!! None of my local vets have much experience with goats

Oh and not sure if it matters but I keep only a dog and horses at home, no other goats/livestock.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Can your vet ultrasound her? Occasionally a goat will have a discharge and lose one kid but deliver another ok. Or, just have a discharge for no reason. What is her udder doing? Getting any larger?


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

This morning no discharge whatsoever... She was a little noisy during the night but I think a lot of that is because she has had enough of being stuck in. Her udder is squishy, I can't really decide if it is any bigger... I could try and get a picture later... The more I think of it, the more I think her vulva was swollen Saturday and Sunday when I was seeing the blood, but I also wonder am I second guessing myself. I wish now I had taken pictures!! I can take her to vet for an ultrasound but that means putting her in the trailer as I would have to take her to his surgery and she hates traveling so I'm a bit worried about doing it and stressing her out unnecessarily... I may have to though! I spent ages yesterday trying to feel if there was anything moving in her but I couldn't... I didn't try bumping her, just was feeling her belly on the right side. Her belly is very firm underneath. I also think she has gotten a bit hollow on top (belly more deccended and wide lower down) in the last few days. Oh and she is peeing a lot. I've noticed her peeing a few times every day since Saturday when I've been checking her a few times a day.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would need to do an ultrasound or blood test.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)




----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

That's her udders now... Had a bother good feel, tried bumping her and thought I felt something drop onto my left hand ... Also felt something sharp move on the underside of her belly, that could be her rumen though right? Her belly is very tight and wide underneath but I've no idea if this is normal/bloat??


----------



## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Agreed, blood test or ultrasound would be best.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Hi, blood test not an option here but I can take her for an ultrasound. If she seems happy in herself and no more concerning discharge over the next day/two I will put her in the trailer and take her for the ultrasound.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would have the vet come to you.

There is risk late term pregnancy and she is already having issues.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If she is behaving normally and no fever (take rectal temp) then I would just wait. In another 4 weeks her udder will develop or not.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Just to update you all - temp is normal, been checking daily. No further signs of any discharge. She has been back out grazing during the day the past few days and seems very well in herself, eating and drinking normally etc. So I think at this stage, I will save her the stress of a trip in the trailer and just keep a close eye and wait it out. I'm sure in the next few weeks it will become more apparent as to whether or not she is still pregnant. Fingers crossed .


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Well I'm glad I didn't put her through the stress of traveling because today I felt at least 1 kid inside her!! Definitely not her Rumen... Felt it move on her right side and I felt at least 1 foot and a nose ... I've never been so certain that the movement I felt was a kid... Hopefully I'm not wrong now as I am super excited ... It's going to be a very slow 4 weeks of waiting!


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Hooray! Show us a photo of Daisy and Mr. Buck to help pass the time


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)




----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

That's a picture of Daisy taken a few weeks ago ... My little boy adores her, he is going to be so excited when she kids!! I also uploaded a picture of one of the kids she had at for when I brought her, is it just me or were her ears huge?!?! lol. We nicknamed the kid Ellie the Elephant . Daisy is a mixed breed, I have no idea what breeding she has in her but she has wattles, she is medium-Large in size and has a beard. I suspect some toggenburg and possibly some Nubian/alpine and most likely Saanen??... I bred her to a pure bred Boer Buck, mainly because I would have had to travel quite far to beed her to anything else other than a Pigmy.

I have a slight concern at the moment because we are due a very cold spell of weather, temp is going to drop 10degrees Celcius over the next couple of days, we are forcast a few inches of snow and severe frosts with temperatures dropping to -7degrees C and not reaching above 0 during the day. I am contemplating relocating her at night to the stone shed (may be warmer) as her current night time lodgings can be a bit drafty and is only built out of corrugated metal. What do u guys think? I bed her on shavings as straw is hard to get hold of in small bales but I'm trying to get hold of some as I think it would be warmer for her. Other option is to leave her where she is and put a rug on her at night. I've a few foal/pony rugs, I'm sure I could find something to fit her or be able to makeshift something together. I am just a bit concerned because I read on this forum that extreme weather can affect them in late term pregnancy?

Other than that she is doing very well, i have started introducing some dairy nuts to her diet, so she is delighted!! Lol. Other than that she grazes during the day about my land a mixture of grass and briars etc, there is no shortage there, she also has ad-lib high quality haylage available in her house as well. Anything else I should give her?


----------



## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Beautiful goaties! And such an adorable little red head cutie in the background!


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

New-goat-mom said:


> Beautiful goaties! And such an adorable little red head cutie in the background!


He has his Daddy's Irish Genes!!


----------



## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

That's awesome! We have a lot of red heads in our family and with 4 kids I didn't get a single one!


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow, Daisy's previous kid has the very definition of AIRPLANE ears! She looks like she could take off! 

The Boer cross kids are going to be adorable! 

Now how far away is the stone shelter versus the metal one? -7 C (about 20F for reference) is really not very cold for adult goats however the drafts/wind are the issue as you noted. But I wouldn't want to stress her in late pregnancy moving to a new shelter if she isn't familiar with it! If she already visits the stone shelter then sure! Otherwise I would try to block drafts in the metal shelter down at goat level -you can use anything! Bales of hay, cardboard, stuff rags in the crevices, staple a blanket to the wall, etc. Dry bedding is important and shavings are just fine. For those temps - I would not put a blanket on her. 

Do you have minerals available for goats where you live? I don't mean to be critical at all! Daisy looks like she could use a bit more selenium and copper in her diet.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Ok so I have blocked up all drafts (took a little creative thinking ) and put in an extra bale of shavings which I have banked up the walls so it's all a bit cosier for her.

Unfortunately 'SalteyLove' there is no such thing as a mineral block for goats available anywhere near me ... I've tried farm stores and pet shops... That's the main reason I started her on the dairy nuts, they have added minerals (they are made for dairy cows but I'm told they are the closest you can get, apparently ewe nuts have no copper in them so that's why I was advised to get the cattle dairy nuts). I figured the nuts must be better for her than plain grain as they have the added minerals.... I wonder though would a mineral block designed for a sheep, cow or horse be safe for a goat? I'm guessing either the ones designed for cows or horses might be best since the sheep one won't have any copper. Any idea what I should look out for on the label with regards anything that may be harmful and anything that may be essential???


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

New-goat-mom said:


> That's awesome! We have a lot of red heads in our family and with 4 kids I didn't get a single one!


I was a bit shocked when he arrived with a full head of red hair! ... Both me and her dad have dark brown hair, but there are a lot of red heads in his dad's family, and come to think of it his dad has a lot of red hair in his beard as well (you wouldn't notice though as it's normally shaved off).


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes there are definitely cattle or horse mineral products that will work for your goat. Can you find out if "loose minerals" might be available for cattle on pasture? Loose minerals are like sand consistency and much easier for goats to utilize. But of course, a block would be better than nothing if loose is not available. 

Are you able to post a photo of a tag (nutrient analysis) of one of the minerals available? I'm not sure if they will be reported in the same units in your country but something with 1500 ppm or more of copper is a good start.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Well the 'beast from the east' came and went... Unfortunately we got snowed in for two days and no running water for 5 days  as pipes froze up . But all back to normal again. I ended up putting a makeshift rug on Daisy the two nights the weather was really bad but other than being a little unimpressed at the blanket of snow and no grass she seems her happy self and was delighted this morning that the snow had gone and she could find grass again . I brought her a horse mineral lick last week that contains copper and selenium... I couldn't get the loose minerals but I guess the mineral block is better than nothing! She is slowly starting to fill her milk bag and I am feeling movement of kids everyday... The countdown is on . I'm just crossing fingers and toes the birth goes without problems. I've foaled numerous horses and have dealt with a good few difficult births but this will be my first kidding


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent, hoping all goes well.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Well folks Daisy's due date was yesterday, her ligaments softened dramatically yesterday but can just about still be felt. And I had my first sign of mucus appear yesterday, a cloudy white string of it about 2-3inches long was hanging out of her yesterday lunchtime and I notice her pass another small blob of it yesterday evening. She is bagged up and her teats are swollen full of milk but her bag isn't tight. Babies appear to have dropped. So she has me on tender hooks . That said she hasn't stopped eating since 5:30am so I'm guessing I can probably relax for another few hours at least!


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Some does keep right on eating! Even between contractions and deliveries!


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Oh ok, that's useful to know!! She came up by the house a while ago, did a little pawing at the ground, got up and down a few times and a little stretching whilst lay down but has since wandered off back down the field and is grazing again. Maybe early mild contractions, positioning kid(s) . The weather is lovely and sunny so I have been spending the morning sat outside keeping an eye on her... I'm hoping she doesn't make me wait till tomorrow as I will have to take the day off work if she doesn't have it today


----------



## 15WildTurkey (Apr 13, 2015)

Come on Daisy girl!
Can you order from Amazon where you are? I’m out in the boonies in the US. So I do most of my mineral/supplement shopping on amazon. You could copper bolus too. I got the balling gun and copper pills on amazon. 
Good luck with your kidding. May it be easy on both you and mamma.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

She really has me on tender hooks... She has been breathing heavy all day... Ligaments are gone for sure as of my last check just now, udder has swelled more over last couple of hours. Every time she brought herself in from the field she would lie down and pant, with some grunting/talking to her belly. And she looked in pain. She was very affectionate all day looking for scratches behind her ears etc. Just closed the door on her house for the night and she looked on edge, she stood up when I went in to check her as if she was on high alert. I really hope tonight's the night... Could she last much longer??


----------



## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I would definitely check her often! I don't recommend checking every 30 minutes all night for a full week like I did (yes, I am THAT stupid) but often. It sounds like it will definitely be very soon. My girls both ate between contractions! I couldn't believe it. Silly girls.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

I doubt I will be getting much sleep tonight .


----------



## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

Good luck!


----------



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

How is she doing?


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Goat_Scout said:


> How is she doing?


I've been checking her every 2hrs... She's uncomfortable, breathing is heavy all the time. And still moaning and groaning a Lots of belching and yawning throughout the night. Still not visibly pushing and no more mucus other than little creamy white globs that come out when she pees. Hoping she is not having problems positioning the kid(s)


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

She seems grand now, eating her hay quite happily, no panting/groaning... I called the vet and he says he will call out early afternoon if no developments in the next couple of hours... Just incase she is having difficulty arranging the kid(s). Fingers crossed, all is ok!!!


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Vet just came out... He is not the best with goats at all but he says she isn't dialated yet and he can just about still feel her ligaments with a fair bit of pressure. So his advise was, sit wait and keep an eye. He did say he is sure there is no torsion of the womb, so at least that's one issue ticked off.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad you just have to wait and nothing wrong.


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Appears to have just gone into true labor!! Contractions and bleating! The vet checking her over obviously just started her off.


----------



## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Yayyy I hope she has a quick and easy delivery!


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Yippee! Keep us posted!


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

She had a little buckling an hour ago... He is drinking and up on his feet the last 10mins... Afterbirth still hanging out of her and no sign of anymore pushing so maybe no more


----------



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Congratulations!


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Huzzah! Congratulations!


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Yay! Congratulations!


----------



## Carla (Feb 19, 2018)

Just the one... But he's a strong big little fella


----------



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

He’s so cute!


----------



## 15WildTurkey (Apr 13, 2015)

AW congrats. He’s lovely


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Very cute! Congrats


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How cute.

Going in and checking doesn't start labor, unless the vet was super rough, even then, she has to dilate in order for her to have the kids, and going in real quick doesn't do that, it was just time for her.


----------

