# First Time Nigerian Dwarf owner - Dystocia



## riverpaws (Mar 7, 2014)

Hi everyone.  

Happy to have any information you might be willing to share. This is my first year owning goats and we have Nigerian Dwarves and I love it! I have two does and a buck. Three days ago we just had our first group of kids from one doe. We had some weird things happen and I just wanted to know if any of you know what would have caused it, or whether we did something wrong.

The first buckling came without assistance, very easily. The second had his head rolled back, only presenting front feet. I assisted and got him out. He was alive, incredibly, and only has some nerve damage to one leg, so we splinted it. Today when I took off the splint, he is walking great on it. Vet said it wasn't broken, and he would either learn to use it or not. Looks like he's going to. Anyway, that buckling was a little bigger and definitely had a bigger head, so I thought maybe that's why he had trouble. Sister was right on his heels. No sac with her for some reason, it was like she was so close to him she didn't have one. She was breech, but slid right out and was flailing wildly in my hands right when we were trying to swing brother to get the junk out of his lungs. So it was chaotic, but I felt ok about it until 24 hours later when mom hadn't lost the placenta completely and was acting weird.

She kept squatting like she was trying to pee, but nothing would come out. I eventually felt like we had to help her with the placenta, so I pulled very very gently on it and it came fairly easily. I was sure I got the whole thing because it didn't tear and we saw all three sections of it. We called the vet that night and he thought she had lots of swelling and it was pressure that was irritating her urinary tract. He said to give anti-inflammatories, which we did.

Half a day later, she was still acting like she was straining occasionally. Then she would lie down on the ground and straighten her legs like she was having contractions and push. That was really weird, but I assumed that since the placenta had already come there was no way there was another kid in.

Well, I was wrong. When we had the vet out to look at her he said we might as well do an examine and when he went in, he found another kid in there. Moral to the story is that I should have felt and made sure, but being new to this, it didn't even occur to me that she could have another one in there after passing the placenta.

So some questions:

1. How often do your goats have dystocia? I had read they give birth fairly easily and was disappointed that our first experience was so horrific, with a dead rotting corpse that the doe's body was trying to reabsorb being the end of it.
2. Did we do something wrong that would have caused this? Is there a reason for dystocia that is really common? Mineral deficiency? Wrong kind of feed? Etc.? 
3. Would you breed the doe again, and why or why not?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I always hate to see when someone new has a bad experience with kidding. But you did learn to always go in and check if you have a doubt. Chalk it up as a learning experience. Nope, there is NOTHING you did that would have caused it. Sometimes it just happens. 

Are you feeding a good loose mineral? Are in a selenium deficient area? 

I would breed her again. Unless she gets a bad infection that damages the uterus there is no reason she couldn't carry to full term successfully again.


----------



## riverpaws (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you for the reply.  We feed a loose mineral supplement free choice that is for goats. I don't know if we are in a selenium deficient area. I can try to find out. If we are, is there something different we should do?


----------



## riverpaws (Mar 7, 2014)

I got onto this map: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html.

We are in an area where the selenium is .18 parts per million. I looked on our trace minerals and it does say there is selenium in there...would they get enough from that?


----------



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

A lot of people on here give BoSe which is extra selenium in a concentrate form. But too much can be toxic and it's a fine line between ok and toxic. I wouldn't give extra if it were me...but others may chime in and disagree. My area is well within the OK range, so I don't have to worry about it. You might contact your extension office and ask them...they should be able to tell you or get the information as to whether you need to supplement more.


----------



## riverpaws (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you for the reply, kccjer! Is that BoSe something you have to inject?

Also, it has been about 6 days since my doe gave birth, and she has some bloody discharge coming from her now. It looks a bit like ketchup, a little thick, and is a light red. Has anyone seen this before?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You have to get BoSe from the vet.

Sounds like normal discharge.


----------



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep, normal. She can have discharge for at least a couple weeks after birth. Karen, is the BoSe injected? I know that you can also get a gel on line but I don't remember what that is called.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

BoSe is injected. I think it is just called selenium/E gel. Never bought it before since I have BoSe.


----------



## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

The thing about supplements and defeciencies is: your land may be fine, but the property next door can be low. The map is a generalazation and not 100% accurate. I used to own a large dairy farm in a Selenium defecient area. However, one section of the hay field had about an acre of high selenuim soil! 

Does your feed come from an area that has enough selenium or too much? Do you know where your feed comes from? Plants can make due with low Selenium, even those plants that seem to require selenium. They can take other minerals and produce another that is similar to Selenium that only plants can utilize, and it can not be used by animals.

Supplements and feed can only put a certian % of each mineral in the product. If the vitamin or mineral is not water soluable, then the amount the government allows to be added is well below what the animal needs each day. This is to keep the animals from accidentally ingesting too high of an amount. That's why you can safely give loose minerals on top of vitamin and mineral enriched feeds and still be well within the safe zone, unless you live in an area that is really high in a certain mineral.

BO-Se is good for 21 days in the body (that's what the research showed anyway) while the gels and other oral things leave the system within 24 hours or so.


----------



## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

My first year kidding was a tough one too. One of my does had a very difficult delivery, and one of the beautiful kids was stillborn.  I ended up upping their calcium, copper, and selenium supplements, and last year it was smooth sailing.  Bad deliveries happen, it is part of breeding any animal. Never kick yourself, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have. Breeders who have been breeding for 20+ years still have a hard delivery happen now and then.


----------



## riverpaws (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the help. Such awesome information! 

And ThreeHavens, thank you especially. I have been kicking myself for not thinking to go in when I should have...so I appreciate your kind words.

So it is best to give the selenium in a loose mineral? Our loose goat minerals have SOME selenium in there (90 ppm?), but what is enough? Do I need to get another loose mineral supplement that has more?

Also, do you find you have radically different temperaments in goat kids? We had 6 this year and 5 of them have warmed up to us really well. The sixth SCREAMS bloody murder and pants every time we pick her up. She acts as if she is TERRIFIED when being held. Is it normal to have kids that are like that? She just seems so different than the others.

Thank you all again for putting up with all my ignorance.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you need to do additional selenium, you would either get the gel or the injectable. You can buy the gel online or get BoSe from the vet.


----------



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep, kids will all have different temperaments. This is the first year I've had one that is so friendly she drives us nuts! The others are all pretty wild like they normally are.


----------

