# Planning for NGs next spring; we have housing questions!



## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Hello! We are planning to get a pair of Nigerian Dwarf doelings (or a doeling and wether) next spring. (Edited: we couldn't wait until next spring. We just got 2 doelings!) Our current shed/chicken coop is rotting so we're planning to build a new mini-barn. We live in Maine, so have tough winters. I'm hoping for some input on the current plans.

Right now we are planning to buy a 10 x 16 wooden shed with 8' walls and 12/12 roof pitch which will allow a small hay loft. My plan at the moment (and if this an be improved PLEASE let me know!) is that this main part of the building (with a wood floor) will hold a milking area, feed storage, barn cat feeding area, and a fully enclosed (and tightly caulked and weatherized, to keep dust contained!) chicken coop with access to an outdoor chicken pen. We'd then add, along one side, a 5' deep shed-roofed area with dirt floor to be divided into one main stall and one kidding stall. These stalls would be open to the main barn area, like normal stalls. (See plans attached.)

My questions:
1) is it OK to have the milking area in the main part of the barn? I see the plans in Storeys for small barns show this but have read on here that it's not sanitary?? The goats live on the other side of stall gates for the most part.
2) How much space (square footage) do I really need for comfortable milking and non-hay feed and supply storage?
3) The main goat stall would have a large door opening into a pen about 1000 square feet. Is that enough space for 2 goats? Would I expect to close them into their stall at night or leave it open to the outdoor pen?
4) Have I laid this out in the most optimum way to use the space? Never having had goats, I am only imagining from my research what the daily tasks are like, and trying to plan for functionality.
5) For cleaning out the stall, I'd be wheel-barrowing the used bedding downhill about 125 feet away, through the goat pen and out a gate. I guess I'd clean out the main stall via the door to the pen, and the kidding stall and coop through the main barn area. OK?
6) This building is about 10' from our deck and about 20' from the house. OK?
7) Is this level of exposure (dirt floor and uninsulated walls) OK in my climate?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Wow! Looks nice and I can tell it is well thought out.

Your questions:

1) is it OK to have the milking area in the main part of the barn? I see the plans in Storeys for small barns show this but have read on here that it's not sanitary?? The goats live on the other side of stall gates for the most part.

* I would say yes. Just make sure they don't have access to the milk stand if it cannot be locked so they can't get stuck*

2) How much space (square footage) do I really need for comfortable milking and non-hay feed and supply storage?

*Well, it really depends -- try to map out what you'll need. I need space for a round metal trash bin for feed, a small file cabinet for supplies, and as much space as you'd need for a milk stand and stool and everything. Overall, not too large.*

3) The main goat stall would have a large door opening into a pen about 1000 square feet. Is that enough space for 2 goats? Would I expect to close them into their stall at night or leave it open to the outdoor pen?

*That sounds like it is definitely enough space. But beware not to lock goats up if avoidable, for the most airflow as possible. Although if you have dutch doors, that can allow airflow and ability to lock goats up.*

4) Have I laid this out in the most optimum way to use the space? Never having had goats, I am only imagining from my research what the daily tasks are like, and trying to plan for functionality.

*I would say so. It looks really nice*

6) This building is about 10' from our deck and about 20' from the house. OK?

*Fine with me if it's fine with you! LOL!*

7) Is this level of exposure (dirt floor and uninsulated walls) OK in my climate?

*Shelter for goats relies on ability to be out of wind, rain, snow, and drafts. The temperature itself is not really a problem. I'm sure your goats will get nice and fuzzy and adapt to the temps, and in the winter just make sure to provide lots of straw bedding and everything sounds great!*


NOTES:

I try not to store hay above goat living areas -- it can get a bit dusty when it's above them. Keeping it at their level is preferred, if possible. But this is not a huge concern

Maybe someone here can chime in about keeping goats around chickens. I don't think it's a huge problem, but make sure to keep the chicken feed and everything else away from the goats.

If I may suggest this -- I would go for 2 does if you want milk. A wether is a different kind of commitment due to their sensitive urinary health, and their care is different from does and for that reason it is very difficult to house them together. ESPECIALLY milking does. So with that, and many more reasons if you are curious, I suggest getting 2 does.

And I'd say you could maybe shrink the kidding and storage area and make the actual goat stall slightly bigger.

Overall, it sounds like you have a very nice plan and setup for them.

My goats have been just fine with harsh weather, rain, wind, snow, and below 0 temps with just a 2 sided large awning and a 4x6 extra house underneath. YOU'VE GOT THIS!


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Thank you so much!! This is great feedback, I really appreciate it. 

Regarding 2 does, I was also leaning that way but with these concerns/questions:
1) I'm sure I will have too much milk most of the time. We are two people an we generally go through a gallon of milk every 10 days or so. I will definitely want to try making cheese, yogurt, etc at some point but probably not for a few years. I'll try to give away as much as I can, but will I end up throwing some away? Do people do that without feeling guilty?
2) With 2 does, that's twice as many heats all year long. How annoying are NG does in heat? What should I expect? My only experience is with Siamese cats in heat and man, was that loud!!! We do have neighbors, with houses about 100' and 150' away from ours.

About the chickens, they'd be separate from the goats entirely. Their feed would be stored in the main open area, but in a latched bin. I could certainly build a lockable cabinet to keep it in if there is worry about the goats somehow getting out of there stall into the main area.

That's interesting about the hay loft making dust. I really don't have any other place to store hay other than this structure, and I'd like to be able to store as much as possible (ideally a year's worth) since we don't have a truck and I'll be renting one to go get hay each time. Never bought hay before, though, so I am not sure how it works in my area! (I know I need second cut. The farm I am getting them from, Sunflower Farm in North Yarmouth ME, will probably give me some local places to buy from.)


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

1) I'm sure I will have too much milk most of the time. We are two people an we generally go through a gallon of milk every 10 days or so. I will definitely want to try making cheese, yogurt, etc at some point but probably not for a few years. I'll try to give away as much as I can, but will I end up throwing some away? Do people do that without feeling guilty?

*You can freeze milk as well. It doesn't seem like something guilty to me. Milk waste just happens. I will also mention that you do not ave to have 2 girls in milk at once. It is sometimes beneficial to have 2 at different times, so no doe is over-bred and they can alternate.*

2) With 2 does, that's twice as many heats all year long. How annoying are NG does in heat? What should I expect? My only experience is with Siamese cats in heat and man, was that loud!!! We do have neighbors, with houses about 100' and 150' away from ours

*Heats aren't terrible. Maybe a bit more tail flagging and head butting, but they aren't gonna be bothers if there are no bucks around. They are goats, not cats *


"About the chickens, they'd be separate from the goats entirely. Their feed would be stored in the main open area, but in a latched bin. I could certainly build a lockable cabinet to keep it in if there is worry about the goats somehow getting out of there stall into the main area."

*Sounds great*

If you can't avoid hay storage above them... make sure to keep hay on pallets if possible, and a tarp underneath if the ceiling is open at all. If it's a closed ceiling, however, not too much dust should come through.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

5x6 is way too small. Especially if you have bad winter days and want to lock them in. I'd do no smaller than 8x10 but go a bit bigger if you can. Remember, when there are kids, there will be more goats to house. You also want enough room if you plan on keeping any. Go the largest size you can afford because you always end up needing more room.

I have a 15x25 area for goats and I wouldn't want it any smaller. Especially when you have a couple does with kids. But I had full size goats. I did also have bad winter days when I had to keep their door closed and everyone had enough room to get away from each other.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

ksalvagno said:


> 5x6 is way too small. Especially if you have bad winter days and want to lock them in. I'd do no smaller than 8x10 but go a bit bigger if you can. Remember, when there are kids, there will be more goats to house. You also want enough room if you plan on keeping any. Go the largest size you can afford because you always end up needing more room.


That is why I suggested making the storage space smaller to make more room for the goats. For 2 kids, it's not awful. But as they get older I don't think 5x6 is suitable either.

For 2 goats I'm currently building a 10x10 shed with a 10x6 lean to off of it. It's a bit extra, but I also would prefer an indoor space of no smaller than 8x10.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Ok my thoughts. I would put the milk room on a side wall/corner and close it in. May e on the coop wall? Everyone will be tryin get to that grain when you put in in the feeder. So the doe might be more fidgety on the stand. Plus... if the kids are out they will be harassin you and up on the stand with mama tryin nurse. My milk room is also my supply room. It does not take too much room to milk.

Always build as bigs you possibly can... goat math WILL strike and then what? We are buildin two more big stalls because of animal math. .

I would also put quarrantine out of the way of anyone and closed as well as i could. But it still needs ventilation. If you have a sickie you dont want the germs spreadin maybe add a small room on the outside of the barn. Where you have it if you need do anything with a sickie you are travelin through the main barn area, to quarantine, out in the main barn again. Tracking whatever yuck through your healthy animals spaces.

What about switchin the open area and the main stall area? Or is what you have labeled main area gonna be open to the outside all the time?

For chickens and goat to be together you need make absolute sure goats cannot get in the feed.... kids inuded. Kids can easily slip in a small chicken door. We have turks with our goats. They get fed at evenin feed through the night and in mornin feed is picked up.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I can see some major frustration trying to clean that as well! Can you start with a 16×16 shed? I'll make a drawing for you.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

For reference are currently building a new barn for 2 goats of an entire area of 10x16. A 10x10 fully closed shed, with a 6 ft lean to.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Chickens are also going to take up part of that area. With having breeding goats and in Maine, they really have to be prepared for goats spending time in the barn, even if they aren't locked in. You have to be prepared for 2 does having quads the same year. That is 10 goats. Even if they plan on selling most or all of the kids, you don't want them cramped in because that will just lead to parasite problems.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Im with Karen, if you expand the shear amount of Goat berries would be a breeding ground for parasites.


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

All great info folks, thank you so much!! I'm working on a new plan. I still don't think I can get my milking/feed area closed off entirely, but making some other changes. Unfortunately we are limited to a fairly small building, so some compromises have to be made, but I'm trying to make the best decisions with what I can build  Will report back!


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Here's the revised plan. The goat barn is 12 x 16. The chicken coop is a separate attached smaller building. The goat barn has a 12 x 10 hayloft above the stall area, and is open to the rafters on the 6 feet over the doors/storage/coop access/milking area, with a skylight (it's a pretty tall roof, 12/12 pitch.)

In this plan, a 6x8 stall is always available at all times, and has the goat door to the paddock. Two other stall areas, with removable panels, are available for other uses. In August those two will have hay in them. We'll use the hay in stall B first, so that for winter our 2 goats will have the whole 6 x 12 area available. Then we'll use the hay in stall C, freeing that up for kidding in the spring. We'll use the hay in the loft last.

I know it's not ideal to have my milking stand and grain storage in the main open barn, but we're really space-constrained here so we need to make some compromises. Hopefully I've made the right ones? As far as quarantine, we would need to use a separate building- likely the garage- in that case.

Thoughts? Maybe I should make stalls A and B 5 feet wide, allowing stall C to be 5 x 4?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That looks better. Don't make your main goat area any smaller. Keep it 6 feet.


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Nice.


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

It's going up! I'm so excited


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

I'd be excited too! What a nice little barn. 

You'll preserve a lot of storage space if you frame your doors to open outward- all those doors opening inward means you can't put much on the floor or wall and you lose a lot of storage in that central corridor. It also means you'll shovel though...maybe a winter door opens in and the others out.


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## seachick (Jun 2, 2010)

Good points! I've actually changed two of the doors to open out  The structure is also above grade by about 18", so shoveling won't be terrible.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Nice!


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Wow! Super exciting! Its awesome how much planning went into it! Can't wait to see it finished. Now you are making me want to remodel my barn again and add a few new things.


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