# Aggressive "wethered" lamb question??



## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I have a black dessert paint lamb who is 8 months old. He was supposed to be wethered before I got him a couple days after birth.... He was one of my rescues. I don't think the fixing part fully took, he was banded, and I know he can extend..., but I'm quite sure he can't breed my does... He is showing signs of aggression towards me Usually he will butt me when he gets obsessive over food.... He has horns, so it hurts when he butts me... I have smacked his nose and said NO, and he'll finally stop after a few times... Anything else I can do? He's extremely friendly and gently otherwise, and this behavior just started a week ago. He's my only sheep among my 14 goats, however I'm planning to add at least 1 or 2 more hair sheep to the mix this spring, but not sure if he should stay or not... I'm pretty attached to him, but I want him to stop butting me...


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Have you ever heard of an "alpha roll" for dog training? 

I had a doe that was butting my one year old... When she did it I gently but quickly put her down on her side, sitting on top of her, and sat my one year old on her neck. We sat like that holding her down until she stopped struggling and let out a sigh, then let her back up.


She didn't butt anyone again and kept her distance from my daughter after that, but after a few days she started raising her hackles and side stepping at her again so I rehomed her. It might be an option for you though to try.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm not sure that an Alpha roll on an animal that might be a ram is a real great idea.You might have to have a blood test done to tell if he is fully wethered.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I'm not sure that an Alpha roll on a an animal that might be a ram is a real great idea.Toy have have a blood test done to tell if he is fully wethered.


I'm pretty sure he's not fully wethered.... My other sheep never extended or even tried to breed my goats..... This boy does extend.... I'm hoping to be able to keep him, but if nothing can be done then I'll have no choice but to offer him as meat to someone, since he can't breed The thing I don't get is it just food driven.... We can be out on a walk in the fields, he won't wonder from me, he sticks close behind...., but he has never butted me, or my mom for that matter.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

vinegar and a spray bottle. Don't accept ANY butting from him. I've noticed in some very friendly wethered male sheep they can get over aggressive around food (have had it happen here) and I did ear pinches and vinegar. My boy is less friendly now but also not aggressive to me.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

<<<He was supposed to be wethered before I got him a couple days after birth....>>>

Are you saying a ring was put on this lamb at just two days old??? If so, there's no way he's a wether as he was far too young. He could only be wethered when his testicles had descended and they certainly don't descend at two days of age. If this is what's happened then all that's been removed is the purse; the testicles are still inside and that could/would account for this ram-mish behavior.

Apologies if I've read this wrong though!

camooweal


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

^^^ I'll try that.... I have reprimanded this behavior, but it doesn't seem to be working... I'll try the vinegar.. Thanks!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

camooweal said:


> <<<He was supposed to be wethered before I got him a couple days after birth....>>>
> 
> Are you saying a ring was put on this lamb at just two days old??? If so, there's no way he's a wether as he was far too young. He could only be wethered when his testicles had descended and they certainly don't descend at two days of age. If this is what's happened then all that's been removed is the purse; the testicles are still inside and that could/would account for this ram-mish behavior.
> 
> ...


My other sheep that I had were wethered at 2 days and no issues with them...., so what you said is not always the case....


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

I would bet money that hes a cryptorchid, probably had only one descended testicle, and the other is up in his abdomen causing you these problems.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

^^^ I'm thinking the same thing...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

That is so strange to me that his testicles could be causing this. I have an intact ram and he's a good boy, very gentle with me and the ewes, even during breeding season. I'm guessing from what I'm reading in this thread I am lucky to have such a nice adult ram?

My ram is much nicer than my wether, I guess is what I'm trying to say. lol


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

This morning during feeding time he was starting to come after me.... I sternly said "Gilligan NO" I forgot the spray bottle To my surprise he backed off and just gave a puzzled look. Once I got everyone fed, then I went over to him and pet him for awhile.... He just stood there with his tail wagging and his head gently on my side.... I'm wondering if part of the problem is that he's being bullied from my goats....? Not sure... I'll keep working with him for now...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

^^^ LOL Dayna^^^


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Rams can be very mean and aggressive, more so than bucks. Yes, Dayna, you are lucky to have such a sweet ram.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

If he gets too dangerous I will sell him for meat purposes, it's just a shame though because he's been a sweet boy up until now, but I don't want a mean (half) ram, so I'll keep working with him, and if nothing changes, then I'll have to make the tough decision..


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

My sweet ram


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

^^^AWE


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Tonight was as though nothing ever happened... He came and stood by me, and he just stood there as I pet him, then he began to eat... Weird...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

janeen128 said:


> Tonight was as though nothing ever happened... He came and stood by me, and he just stood there as I pet him, then he began to eat... Weird...


Maybe he heard you were gonna sell him for meat! haha


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

^^^LOL.... Probably I think also since the bucks & does are running together that also might be a trigger point. My friend will be moving his sheep on Wednesday, so all the bucks will be removed then...


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

This brings back memories... When I was younger, I used to feed my dogs by taking dangerous rams off people's hands. Some of these guys were highly sneaky animals that had really hurt people.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, for 2 days now..., no bad behavior from him....


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

one of my friends read this thread and borrowed my ram to see if the behavior is passed down. So far I have one of his offspring here that is sold in a few days (hopefully) that is also very sweet and intact. So I wanna find out if your ram continues to be nice! Maybe he was having a bad few days?


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Still, not even an attempt on butting me


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is good. Hopefully just a one time thing.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Update.... He hasn't even tried to butt me... If he wants my attention he will stand near me and paw at the ground LOL.... I thought it was definitely an improvement.... Even then he just either wants a treat or a good petting..., spoiled stinker


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

That is awesome!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is great!


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

I agree with camooweal - 2 days is too young to castrate. My vet and I were just talking about this the other day. He said the cases of CU he sees seem to be related also to such early castrating. We never castrate till after 8-9 weeks on our goats, sometimes a little later on the lambs. Never had a problem. We also use a burdizzo -I no longer band. Been very happy with the results and the animals seem to have far less after effects.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

wndngrvr said:


> I agree with camooweal - 2 days is too young to castrate. My vet and I were just talking about this the other day. He said the cases of CU he sees seem to be related also to such early castrating. We never castrate till after 8-9 weeks on our goats, sometimes a little later on the lambs. Never had a problem. We also use a burdizzo -I no longer band. Been very happy with the results and the animals seem to have far less after effects.


I agree, however I'm not the one who did it.. I usually castrate between 8-12 weeks..


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Bummer... He just butted me so hard I almost fell before work this morning Not sure what to do now.......?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

You gave him a chance. I would sell him for eat or butcher him myself.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Selling him for meat I can't have a dangerous one on my property, since my elderly mom is out there quite a bit with them too....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You tried. Selling him for meat is not a bad thing.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Sorry things didn't work out for you with this sheep but selling him for meat is the best outcome from the point of view that he's had a good, albeit short, life with you. He would have had a good life if he'd chosen to live by your rules!

You'll miss him - butt - you won't miss those will you!!! Woolly-headed or not, they can give quite a whack if they choose to.

camooweal


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

He has horns, so the hard whacks hurt...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Those are serious horns. Nice, cute boy. I'd butcher. I'm sorry, I would. Too many rams, not enough ewes. Lol you'll find a good boy.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm either taking him to the sale on Saturday, or someone offered $110.00 for him through CL... I'm still trying to decide... I was asking $150.00


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

For me it would be easier having someone come pick him up (if I liked him). So I'd take the $110 if the person is willing to come and pick up and I don't have to go to any sale barns (I've never actually been to one though....) lol So take that for what its worth.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm considering the offer too...


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I would see if the offer can meet in the middle, $130.
Agreed though, on staying out of the sale barn. I went once and cried


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Seems a bit low ball on price from the CL person.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, he is still here.... CL guy flaked out, and his ride to the auction didn't happen. Odd thing..., he hasn't attempted to butt me. Today I had to get them all from the pasture, and he followed me right behind, sometimes pawing at me for my attention, but no butting... Now, I'm wondering what caused his butting....? He is supposed to go to the auction this Saturday along with some of my bucks, but I'm kinda thinking of giving him another chance. Bad idea? I just don't know...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Its up to you. Trust your gut! Its easier to give another chance than to have regrets.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

He went to the auction today... Sad, but my mom was afraid of him too.... I'll find my forever sheep out there somewhere


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is for the best. I'm sorry you had to do that.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> It is for the best. I'm sorry you had to do that.


Thanks Karen! It was hard, but yes it's for the best...


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