# Babies breeding mom?!?!



## PygmyMom (Mar 3, 2014)

I have a 3.5 month old buckling that I kept from this summers kidding season. I intend to wether him at 4 months old and keep him if he's not sold. Yesterday I saw him mount and hump on of my does in heat! His mom also went into heat although I haven't seen him mount her. Could he have bred the doe?!? Or try to mount his mom when I wasn't looking? I always pegged four months old as a "cut off date" now I'm worried he has bred my pygmy doe and the ND doe who is his mom. Should I lute just in case? UGH!


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## PygmyMom (Mar 3, 2014)

Or should I wait 21 days and then lute if they girls don't heat again? Is 21 days too late to lute?


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## Sether55 (Dec 5, 2014)

Sorry but I don't know what "lute" means...Oh yes I do. If you don't mind spending the money now, lute them now I think so they won't be a growing month old baby. Or yes you can wait and do it in 21 days. Or just let the does kid them.
Personally, I think 4 months is WAY WAY WAY later than I would do it. Most people do it within the first month. Bucks start breeding by 4 months sometimes 3. I'm guessing he bred all the does that were in heat. INCLUDING the mom... bucks are very sneaking when breeding but he could have failed because he is so long or the doe didn't take. If he did I just wouldn't keep his mom's babies.(inbreeding) But breeding the son to the mom once or twice is normal in the goat world.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Not that likely. They are capable of breeding at that age, but most of the time they just mount without penetrating. Unless you saw that he for sure bred the doe, I would wait to see if they come back into heat and then lute. I might let them kid, but I breed for meat so anything inbred can go in the freezer, so if you don't want to do that better to terminate. The Pygmy it's just a question of whether you'd want kids from that breeding or not.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you see him extend?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Sether55 said:


> Personally, I think 4 months is WAY WAY WAY later than I would do it. Most people do it within the first month.


Less than a month is way too early to castrate a buck. Castrating too early doesn't allow the urinary tract to fully form and can lead to Urinary Calculi. You should never castrate before 8 weeks and 10 to 12 weeks is better. I've heard people say you can castrate earlier if you know the animal is going to market....but I've seen market goats die from UC before they made it to market.

It is possible that he bred them, but not likely. I've seen day old bucklings humping everything in sight and they aren't going to breed anything. I would go ahead and band him now if that's what you're planning on or at least separate him.


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## PygmyMom (Mar 3, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Did you see him extend?


No I wasn't close enough to tell. I saw it happen out of the window. This little guy was a late bloomer per say. He was a runt when he was born and I honestly didn't think he'd make it past a week old. He's grown into a strong little fellow though 

I know everyone has a difference of opinion on banding age. He's a small breed like all of my other goats. So banding is easily done at a later age. He's little manhood is still plenty small to fit.  I like for my boys to be more developed and proven to be healthy before I castrate. I personally found this to be a successful way of doing it. Up until now anyhow lol!

Not that big of a deal if he did breed Buttons (the pygmy) just disappointing as she just kidded in August and I was waiting to breed her again until next year. She was accidentally bred back almost immediately after kidding last year so I wanted her to have a good break from being pregnant. Kidding twice within 6 months was hard on her. 

Dang little goat! Looks like he will be losing his manhood today lol! So it's ok to wait to lute? Or let mom kid if he did breed her? I just don't want any deformities or anything if she was bred by her son.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

He could have bred her, but it isn't likely... It's up to you if you want to lute or not. Probably won't be deformities..., I think that usually happens with a repeat of the same beeding, however that is up to you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If at all in doubt or worry, lute helps in case.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

yeah I would lute just in case.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

You need to wait 2 weeks before giving the lute or it will not end any potential pregnancy. The egg has to implant before it can be terminated. If you lute to early, the egg will attach and you will end up with a viable pregnancy!

Unless there are serious genetic defects in Mom and son, you won't have deformities. All breeds were established by inbreeding. The majority of the big breeders line/in breed to strengthen certain traits. I've bred father to daughter because I didn't have access to any other bucks. Never had a problem with the resulting kids. The only time I really had a major genetic problem was by breeding 2 unrelated goats of different breeds!


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## PygmyMom (Mar 3, 2014)

lottsagoats1 said:


> You need to wait 2 weeks before giving the lute or it will not end any potential pregnancy. The egg has to implant before it can be terminated. If you lute to early, the egg will attach and you will end up with a viable pregnancy!
> 
> Unless there are serious genetic defects in Mom and son, you won't have deformities. All breeds were established by inbreeding. The majority of the big breeders line/in breed to strengthen certain traits. I've bred father to daughter because I didn't have access to any other bucks. Never had a problem with the resulting kids. The only time I really had a major genetic problem was by breeding 2 unrelated goats of different breeds!


Thank you! I figure I'll wait until the next heat (should be around 12/27 for both) and see if the girls cycle. If they don't, I'll probably lute then. Worst case, I have more kids in 5 months  (sans the deformities as both mom and kid are nice healthy goats) the buckling had his manhood spared today. Ironically I had a friend contact me asking if I had any young breeding bucks on site she could buy to breed her ND/Pygmy cross does. Considering my pygmy buck and mixed buck are both out on lease, I only have little "jelly" here. He can be romantic with lots of does now lol! None of which are his mom


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is best to give 10-14 days after oops breeding and 2cc's IM. 
This prevents fertilized eggs from implanting by interfering with the hormone process required.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

In the future if you are going to wait to castrate till 4 months then give him his own pen. Yes they can successfully breed at 3 months it's not common but it's very possible.


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