# Oh No... is it possible



## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

my youngest doe honey is lookin well... large and i know it is a nigerian thing but, this time im not sure.
i got honey when she was almost six months old, she had been in with a little nigerian buck who was a month older than her. (honey is a saanen nigerian cross). she had a LOT of mucus on her tail and comming from her girly bits yesterday, and today she was standing away from the other does in the same pen ( and was sleeping for a long time today). also today she wasnt able to jump into the hay rack (like usual) she seems to have gotten much wider.























end of september


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think you are asking, is it possible she's pregnant? If so, the answer is, "Yes."


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

:bonk:
do you think she is?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

also luckily the buckling would be unrelated
i got her end of september 24th or 25th if I remember correctly 
so she would be at least two and a half months along, we ar probably going to have the vet out in january or february.
i will have some extra kidding experience this year because i am going to help out at the local dairy farm for kidding season. I went on tuesday to help with cd/t shots and honey's back end looks quite a bit like the swollen back end of a goat redy to kid in january or february.
i am honestly not too worried because it was a nigerian buck


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yeah, I'm afraid I do think she settled. I don't see an udder, so I think you have a bit of time...


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

ok... as stated above i am not too worried, any judgement as to when she would be due?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No, not until an udder starts. Keep close watch on her, not because she's about to pop, but so that you can learn how her particular body changes. FFs are so nerve wracking, because every doe is different.

I'd say you have 2 months, maybe 1, maybe not 3. But without an udder at all, I'd say you are good for now.

What are you feeding her?


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

textured feed mixed with alfalfa pellets and free choice grass hay


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i think the protein in the textured feed was 18 or 20% (it was a special feed for my beef cows that they would not eat)
after getting the experience with the dairy goat farmer i will be switching to a different mix 
textured goat feed (16-18% protein) plain cattle pellets (12-14% protein) and beet pulp
i also feed kelp free choice and cattle minerals


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK. It might just be me, but were she mine, I'd start backing off of the textured feed, and start increasing the Alfalfa Pellets. I am convinced that grain in the last part of the pregnancy contributes to large kids. AP pellets have a lot of calcium to ward off PT and have a lot of other nutrition as well. Grain early in the pregnancy contributes to good development, but not huge size. So that's my 2 cents worth.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Kelp is very good. May I ask what cattle minerals you give? There is a really wild range of quality.

@Jessica84 @Damfino @SalteyLove do you have anything to add? What am I forgetting? My own regimen is so different from "regular" that I fear steering this wrong.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

need to go to the feed store any way on saturday so will look into that then.
also PT? and are you saying a peleted grain or oats grain? sorry for so many questions


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I meant to say, and should have said, pregnancy toxemia. PT is needlessly confusing.

And I think your grain is fine, I would just start feeding less and less of it and start feeding more and more of the alfalfa pellets. Keeping the total the same but slowly changing the proportions.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-6-phosphorus-cattle-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005 
these are my minerals purina cattle minerals 
at the moment i still have about 25 to 30lbs left so i can't justify getting any other minerals
oh i forgot, i copper bolus every two months because i am extremely deficient in my area and i use selenium gel monthly but let the goats have free access to a selenium block


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Those are good minerals. I like them. Good job. When you run out, you might want to consider switching to Wind and Rain, Storm. Or maybe you won't want to.

I'd give her some more selenium now if you have selenium gel. In fact, I'd give it every 2 weeks, not every month, at least until the birth. If you have Replamin Gel Plus, you can give that instead of the selenium gel. In fact, I prefer it. But I have, and use, both. The selenium salt blocks are good, but they can't deliver the amount of selenium you need. It is an excellent salt, with a touch of selenium.

So good job, but it isn't enough and a kid born selenium deficiency can be heartbreaking.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

was just remembering replamin and planning on getting some, i will give her more selenium tomorrow because that is three weeks from last time.
thank you for your help @mariarose


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

would b complex help with any thing (i will get some to have on hand) since she is only just 8 months old should i get some colostrom powder or jumpstart for when she kids? 
i can get local pasturized goats milk if need be or if not that local pasturized cow's milk


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, this is the easiest help I've ever given. You already are doing everything, or are about to anyway!
But you are very welcome.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Old Post Farm said:


> would b complex help with any thing (i will get some to have on hand) since she is only just 8 months old should i get some colostrom powder or jumpstart for when she kids?
> i can get local pasturized goats milk if need be or if not that local pasturized cow's milk


If you get B-Complex, be sure it is fortified, or high thiamine. That is usually the best one to have on hand.
Jumpstart is a probiotic, like Probios. It is not a colostrum. Now, there is a tube of colostrum that I got from TSC once. I'll try to find it and see what it says. I never used it. 
Here it is https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/producers-pride-multi-species-colostrum-gel


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Kelp is very good. May I ask what cattle minerals you give? There is a really wild range of quality.
> 
> @Jessica84 @Damfino @SalteyLove do you have anything to add? What am I forgetting? My own regimen is so different from "regular" that I fear steering this wrong.


I think you are doing a very good job. I have no idea if she is a small ND or a good sized one lol but if she is smaller DEFINITELY back off the grain and or change to one lower in protein. And I fully agree on the alfalfa. If you are not familiar with Pregnancy toxemia read up on It and read a lot. If it is ever something you are blessed with it needs to be jumped on fast. You should be able to find the recipe for something called magic. Just run to the store if you don't have everything and just keep it on hand. I've had a long day but I believe it is karo syrup, molasses and corn oil. Google before you run to the store though lol it never hurts to have on hand
Also, only because I really can't tell till they start making a udder lol wait a few days and post a pic of her behind again. Mucus and puffiness could also be that she is in heat. She does look puffy to me, but with the mucus and being kinda lazy within the same very small time frame it could be heat........and of course could be prego lol


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

honey is about the size of a small-ish adult nigerian as she is not full bred 







here is honey next to my saanen
i have also noticed honey getting wider and not being able to fit through spaces like she used to ( and my pregnant saanencan fit through)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

honey's pooch is still very puffy today


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

still swollen today 
i did the test where you feel in front of the doe's udder, and from that test she is pregnant (i don't know how acurate that test is) 
going to feed store today to get supplies


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You are gonna be a grandma.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

"Grandma got run over by a Preggo!"


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Lol :lolgoat:
do you know the acuracy of that test?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've gotten false negatives. But never a false positive...


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i am thinking about how long we have had Honey and that she has never been in a really strong heat. my buck will spray himself excessivly (like a buck) when any doe is in heat, he has never really acted like honey was in heat ever. 
Fancy showed some signs of heat last year while she was pregnant and i was really confused but honey isn't (and hasn't) shown as strong heat signs as fancy did last year


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What is the size of her udder?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Old Post Farm said:


> i am thinking about how long we have had Honey and that she has never been in a really strong heat. my buck will spray himself excessivly (like a buck) when any doe is in heat, he has never really acted like honey was in heat ever.
> Fancy showed some signs of heat last year while she was pregnant and i was really confused but honey isn't (and hasn't) shown as strong heat signs as fancy did last year


I have a doe like Fancy, we keep going back and forth on if she's settled,and we sort of decided she carrying a single then today one of our wethers was acting "Bucky" sort of interested but not too interested towards her. Yesterday when I trimmed her hooves I checked her udder and it was meatyish not firm but she wouldn't be due till early Feb. if she is...
DOE CODE.... keep us guessing


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

it feels like a little glob of soft tissue there is a very small lump (that is her udder) it is the size of the precious udder one of my does has had


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK, you've got at least a month. Keep watching and noting her changes, so that next year you'll be familiar with this girl's patterns.

Here is the magic recipe. I've never used it. @NigerianNewbie 
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/omg-not-again.201165/page-2#post-2174375


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thank you!
here are some pictures from this morning


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Magic recipe. 1 part molasses: 2 parts light Kayro syrup: 1 part corn oil give 5-10 cc Used for stress, dehydration, loss of appetite


I tried to quote this earlier, but for some reason I couldn't.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thank you, this recicpe will be helpful if i need it (hopefuly i don't). could this also be used for a boost after kidding?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't know. I've offered a choice between molasses tainted water and ACV tainted water. Both warm, both have been chosen about equally. One little dam who was dying I even offered whiskey tainted water. She drank of that heavily (as I said, she was dying) But I've never used this stuff.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

got probios and fortified vit b. i have to order replamin


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

i re-did the push hardness test (and had my mom try too) and honey is definatly very hard compared to my un-bred doe. my parents both think Honey is pregnant and i do too. my guess for her due date is january 19th or 20th (i will be away for most of that weekend)


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

omg! doe code! ahhhhhh!(headsmash)
did the push test (again) on Honey and now she is soft?! she has shown no obvious signs of heat, no flagging ect. acting normaly. her pooch is still swollen (pictures later)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Those kinds of tests aren't reliable. Good luck!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

All you can really do is wait for a udder (or kids lol) or draw blood. She is defiantly not due tomorrow and looking at my first timers that is due mid to end of January you probably have more then a month if she is bred. All my FF due at that time are showing very strong signs they are bred. Cute little udders and very puffy vulvas. I say treat her as if she is prego and just assume she is till she kids or is in the time line that there’s no possible way she could be bred any more


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

I think she looks roughly half-way or a little more. I have usually been able to begin feeling a hard lump, like a little head or hoof, when a little more than half-way. You count the days from the latest day she had the possibility, and count 148 days to get a roundabout last kidding day. If you don't feel a foetus today, try again this evening and tomorrow, until you feel certain! The small one(s), if present, will move inside her.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

our cows are sick so we will need to have the vet out sooner than expected. i might see if we can get blood drawn on the three possibly preggo does


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

should i use a mini breed gestation calculator or a standard breed (since she is 50/50) ?
if standard breed her latest due date would be February 21st
if mini breed her latest due date is February 16th


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Aha, they have different times for pregnancy?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Trollmor said:


> Aha, they have different times for pregnancy?


Slightly shorter for Dwarves and Minis. Not drastically different. Different enough to be nervewracking.

@Old Post Farm, she is technically a mini. So go with a mini calendar.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

thank you.
in your oppinion do you still think she is pregnant


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Slightly shorter for Dwarves and Minis. Not drastically different. Different enough to be nervewracking.


Of course, stupid me! I must have been half asleep!


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Trollmor said:


> Of course, stupid me! I must have been half asleep!


it took me a while to grasp too, dont worry 
minies have a gestation of 145 days 
standards have a gestation of 150 days


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Old Post Farm said:


> it took me a while to grasp too, dont worry
> minies have a gestation of 145 days
> standards have a gestation of 150 days


Nice to have you here! Merry Christmas to you, too, as I said in my recent entry on the Welcome Board.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Old Post Farm said:


> thank you.
> in your oppinion do you still think she is pregnant


In my opinion, yes I do. But yes, I could be wrong.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think she is looking a bit bred as well but the same I could be wrong. Half way there looks about right to me on my guess lol talk to the vet and see how much he would charge, I don’t imagine it would be much. It will take all of 3 minutes to draw blood and it costs me $6 for the test. And if you have it done watch and see how he does it, it’s easy to do and that way if your ever in this spot again you can do it yourself. I’m the biggest chicken and swear my goats look for any excuse to die lol and I can draw blood


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Words again: 'Draw blood' - does it mean what I think it does ... To take a blood sample from a vein?

That is not allowed here, unless you are a vet.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

last time i had blood drawn it was 14$, i am too much of a chicken to do my own blood draws
merry christmas


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Here in the States, you can learn to draw your own blood samples, either from someone showing you, or from You Tube videos, and there are labs that will accept blood samples from the owners. Other labs won't and only allow access from vets.
My vets labs charge a lot more than Jessica's vets do. But then, Jessica has to live in California for that vet, and I don't want to live in California...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Merry Christmas to you, as well.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Trollmor said:


> Words again: 'Draw blood' - does it mean what I think it does ... To take a blood sample from a vein?
> 
> That is not allowed here, unless you are a vet.












Yes. Blood drawing is a vital asset in herd management.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Again, a difference between our countries. Interesting, isn't it?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m a 45 minute drive from the lab so it just costs the actual test for me not shipping. I did have 2 kids with abscesses a few years ago and I took to a vet to see what was going on. Long story short they sent a blood sample to be tested for CL (2 month old kids) and charged me $35 a test. I was very annoyed with that because I didn’t need a test to know a 2 month old kid would test negative but it was WAY more then just driving to a lab and dropping it off. This is one example of why I don’t bother with vets any more so if we ever passed it so only vets could draw blood mine would never have it drawn again. 
$14 is not bad at all. It would give you a for sure answer at least


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

Honey is still showing the same signs:bonkheadsmash)


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

So she is Nigerian/Saanen, and you guess she was bred to a Nigerian buck and she will be about 1 year old when she kids? I bet she does just fine... even if it's not what you were hoping for. 

I hope your cows are feeling better.


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