# Training a goat to be milked, First Freshner Questions.



## MSquaredFarm (Sep 28, 2011)

I have a shy 2 year old dwarf nigerian doe, Millie. I've had my goats for a little over a year now and this will be my first "kidding" and training them to be milked.

Millie will come when I call and jump on the milk stand, put her head through the gate and I shut and lock it. She "allows" me to pet on her, but will close up her legs if I try to rub her udder. Sometimes she will squat (like their supposed to). So she is bagging up, which I understand means we have around 4 to 6 weeks left before the baby arrives. Since she is a first freshener, I'm expecting a single but you never really know. She was not bottle fed so I assume she will take to her baby, but am prepared to bottle feed if necessary. I would like to leave this baby on her and eventually do AM milking. So please give me any advice as to when I need to start trying to milk her, how long I should milk her and some of your experiences with first fresheners.

Thanks, Melissa


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

First of all, your doe is BEAUTIFUL!  If you take her kid away from birth the doe will be much easier to milk as she will bond to you as her baby. If you let her raise the kid she will be harder to milk although they can be trained it's just more of a battle. Oh and just because she is a FF doe not mean she can only have one kid  Some FF can have up to 4 although it's usually just twins or a single. Good luck!


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

My first kidding is coming up as well.
I don't like pulling the kids...to me it seems unnatural.
I think they get more from nursing the colostrum from their dam than bottle feeding and should be with the dam a minimum of 2 weeks. This is just a theory I have, I don't know if it is entirely true yet. I think with the loving care of their dam (providing the dam gives them that loving care) if better than what I could give with a bottle. Meals are whenever they are hungry and when they want vs. so many bottle feedings per day.

I am however going to have a bottle baby...I just prefer less time bottle feeding and like them being dam raised/
The lady I am getting them from is pulling the kids from birth for me, I just think they might have a better chance with mom for a few weeks to prove they are nice and strong. 

What I am going to do with mine is let them have 2 weeks with mom and after that pull the kids at night and milk in the morning.
Once they are 2 months old they leave mom and go in a near by pen where they can "talk to each other".

What I do for a FF or a milker not used to a milk stand is tie their back feet.
It is made with a rope around each back leg of the milk stand. Before you tie the ropes to the legs make a loop on one end and slip the loop-less end through the lope. Then tie it to the legs. That way you slip the back legs of the doe in and it tightens by it self, and isn't too tight. They can only kick a few inches back, but not forward. This keeps the milk clean and allows you to milk them while they throw their "fit". After a week or 2 they do really good and don't kick as much, but I still use the rope to ensure the milk stays clean should they try to kick.


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## MSquaredFarm (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the great info.

I think I read somewhere that you do not milk a first freshener for long. This is why I though I would leave the kids on her and milk in the AM. I have another doe, that is more lovey and loves to be scratched that I'm going to pull the babies and bottle feed. That way I can decide if I want to dam raise or bottle raise.

So how long do you milk a first freshener?


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

I agree with tying the back legs to the milk stand. Here is some what of a picture with the legs tied









The goat on this stand would let me scratch her udder /legs/ belly all the time before the babies , however when it came time to milk her , she would jump and kick her feet. (Picture pre babies)









This goat would not let me touch her anywhere under ... Now when milking, I tied her legs
up about 5 times and now I do not have to tie her feet up as she is ok with it and lets me milk her.

I have one doe that had to be tied the WHOLE time I milked her and now she is not in milk, I can not get anywhere close to her back end / tail or teats. She is a bucker!

Some goats just dont like to be touched!!!!


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

You can also try a hobble http://fiascofarm.com/goats/hobble.htm I hear these things are awesome for kinky milkers.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

That's a nice set up you have, Rev.

I've broke a few to milk that had varying degrees of handling before hand. I had the best luck just being patient and relaxed around the does, but not taking "no" for an answer. I had one doe that I had to milk one handed while I held a leg with the other hand for like a month. She finally settled down and got very easy to milk. I have found that some does are better to milk facing their rear and others are better if you are behind. I've had them kick like crazy, if you firmly hold their kicking leg, they figure out you are not scared of thier kicking and they eventually give up. They are all different, but all of the ones I have tried did come around. When I milk a doe for the first few times, I don't even try to keep the milk clean. That just adds to your frustration
and you and the doe don't need that at that point. Getting nice clean
milk can come later when everything settles down.
Overall, I would say goats are pretty easy.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

This past year I had two milkers. I didnt start milking till after the kids were sold at 3 mos.
One was an FF and the other her second time though not milked previously.
Both of them came around within a week. I did have to milk one handed for a couple days while holding up the offending leg.
The key really is patience. Take your time, tell her what a good girl she is even if she is being a pill.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I had doe who had very little handling before I got her. She kidded as a FF and learned to milk very fast. She never did kick, even in the beginning and it only took her a few milkings to learn how to get on the stand. I think as long as you are patient and just keep trying they will learn that it is much easier to stand still. If the goat is kicking a lot, you can try rewarding her for good behavior. Just keep your hand where it is until she stops kicking, then take your hand away immediately and praise her. She will figure out that not kicking gets you to leave her alone faster. If she insists on picking a leg up, I've learned how to keep milking, but move my arm out to push her leg away and keep her from putting it right in the bucket.

The main key is to not get frustrated. Goats learn much better if you stay calm and don't try to think you can make them hold still, she will learn eventually that it is better to hold still than dance. I've got a couple goats that were stand trained before I got them. They must have been treated pretty rough as they are very twitchy on the stand, you can't hardly move one leg back without them squatting and tucking their butts up under themselves.

I'd say a doe dancing around on the stand is much better than getting kicked in the head by a dancy cow....or getting swatted by their prickly tails!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

All extremely good info! :thumbup: Nothing for me to add except that when it comes to milking FF, remember that this is their first time ever being handled in the manner of a milking doe and patience is the key....but don't be afraid to show her how to be good. FF should be milked as long as any other freshened doe, what you train them to now is reinforced from year to year, if you dry her off too soon, she'll be trained to slow production early in future freshenings. IMO the reasons I've read why others don't milk FF are baloney....she's making milk the same as a doe whose on her 5th or 6th freshening so why not take it :scratch:


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## yellowstone (Jan 9, 2011)

I learned to milk at an 80-goat dairy so there was definitely no time to be tying legs to stands. We used two tricks to get kicky girls to stand still:

1. With both hands on the teats, firmly push up into the udder with your fists. So you are milking, and if you see her start to get kicky you just lift up your hands. This usually stops the kicking. If not...

2. Take one hand off the teat and use it to push up into the medial. I put my hand out like I'm going to shake hands, then press the edge up into the crease. You have to milk one handed this way but it almost always works... EXCEPT the crazy few that like to do handstands...

Then I would use the ropes if you don't have another person around to push their rear down!


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I have my milk stand up against a wall so I can push her against the wall... ans I use my arms to push her legs back when she gets 'kicky'.......works well for me....untill she jumps in the air..... but my doe is a DRAMA queen!
Also I would stat feeding her on the stand and touching her all over..... we have been doing that with our jr. does....


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