# Help needed- Injured unmanageable buck



## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

Hey, new here.

We have a 2 year old saanen buck that has become increasingly harder to manage. He will charge at you (he has horns), constantly jump fences and is a danger to anyone entering the paddock. He is very large (he comes up to waist height) and stronger than I can control, should I need to. 

To stop him from jumping and to slow him down a bit we had him tethered to a wire line, with a swivel chain, but it was too restrictive, so as much as I hate the idea, lately we have had him tethered to a tire. 

His collar has rubbed really deep into the neck and today I noticed the wound has opened up and has been bleeding. Should I use Betadine on it? I have no idea how I'm going to get close to him! I really don't know what to do with this animal any more. He has no where else to go.

And any suggestions for keeping him very secure long term (rather than tethered)- what kind of fencing would do the job? We don't have electric fences but I'm wondering if we should.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I don't want the sound harsh, but I'd send him the the butcher. There are so many great bucks out there, makes no sense to keep a dangerous one around. Plus, it's only a matter of time before somebody gets hurt-maybe very badly.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

+1
Besides temperament is hereditary a dangerous buck is likely to produce dangerous sons.


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## ShyAnne7 (Nov 28, 2015)

Ditto what others are saying, its not if but when.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

The tethering may actually make his temperment worse. I am always one for trying behavior adjustment BUT once a fence jumper, always a fence jumper. Even if he didn't have a temperment issue, the jumping just can't be changed. I agree, a butcher is the best place for him. 

In the short term, you do need to address the injury. I understand it seems daunting to handle him, but you are the human and have logic on your side as well as responsibility. 

Is he able to be lured with food? I would lure him with a generous serving of grain or alfalfa pellets or anything that really keeps his attention. Get him along a sturdy fence line. While he is eating, loosely secure the leash to the post or fence. Next, still while he is eating, get a strap or leather dog leash or similar and get that around his waist just in front of the hind legs and tie that to the fence. So now he is parallel with the fence. Keep tying! Tie the back leg and the front leg on the fence side to the fence. Since you need to work on his neck - I would tie his horns up to the post or fence. This all needs to be SNUG. no wiggle room or it will be dangerous for both of you. Yes, he will be mad and uncomfortable, but it will only last 20 minutes. 

Meanwhile, a really good spray bottle with vinegar and water to the face should keep you safer. In addition a strong stick/short broom handle etc. Do NOT hit him on the horns, that will only spur him on. Bop him right in the soft part of the nose when he is misbehaving.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

For the wound, a flush with betadine and then apply a triple antibiotic gel or a livestock wound spray should help.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Well NZgirl, the fact you say this buck has nowhere else to go suggests to me that you do have some time for him? If this is so I'd suggest you get him "converted" into a wether as soon as possible and get those horns shortened - or removed altogether by using rubber bands. There's a good description plus photos somewhere on TGS on how to do this. 

We once had a wether (sheep in this case) who wasn't above bunting and he had those big, curly Merino horns. A good smack on the horns near his skull would get his attention and remind him of his manners. We'd only needed to do this infrequently. 

Electric fencing 'might' do something to confine him but he'd probably learn to jump over it or charge through it. 

He seems to be a buck living on his own and his mind is on does. Castration should (can't say "will" ) quieten down those hormones. If you do decide to wether him perhaps you could get another wether to keep him company?

Otherwise if you can't do anything with him, with his current temperament he's just as well off in the freezer. As my husband once said to a very aggressive turkey tom we had, "You can cool off in the freezer!" - and he did!

camooweal


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

camooweal said:


> Well NZgirl, the fact you say this buck has nowhere else to go suggests to me that you do have some time for him? <snip>
> camooweal


I think she means no one else will take him...because he's :evil:.

He's dangerous, he's going to hurt someone sooner or later...he needs to be sent to freezer camp.


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## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

CritterCarnival said:


> I think she means no one else will take him...because he's :evil:.
> 
> He's dangerous, he's going to hurt someone sooner or later...he needs to be sent to freezer camp.


Hes undesirable as a pet, or companion animal because of his nature, so, yes, no one else wants him.


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## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

camooweal said:


> Well NZgirl, the fact you say this buck has nowhere else to go suggests to me that you do have some time for him? If this is so I'd suggest you get him "converted" into a wether as soon as possible and get those horns shortened - or removed altogether by using rubber bands. There's a good description plus photos somewhere on TGS on how to do this.
> 
> We once had a wether (sheep in this case) who wasn't above bunting and he had those big, curly Merino horns. A good smack on the horns near his skull would get his attention and remind him of his manners. We'd only needed to do this infrequently.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the encouragement. He is castrated, I had forgotten the correct term was whether! I would have done his horns too when he was little but didn't have the stomach to do it myself and by the time we found some one to do it- it was too 'late' as in we missed the window of time when he was under 1 week old.

His horns are an issue, although not all of the issue; the main one is his jumping- due to his size, which also makes it tricky to contain him effectively.

How would one dehorn a fully grown pair of horns with rubber bands?

Short term he is going back on the wire line to take the pressure off his neck, but then I don't know what.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I had a goat that jumped fences and I found that I could tether him comfortably if I used a wide leather collar. Nylon is very abrasive, and the narrower the collar the more likely it is to chafe. After disinfecting I would use udder balm on the area to sooth the skin and lubricate it so the collar can't keep chafing while it's trying to heal. A fleece horse halter pad under the collar could also help protect his neck from further injury. 

If your goat is unruly, you should get a halter for him with a short catch rope. I usually don't leave halters on animals, but if one is determined to be unmanageable, then he needs to wear a halter so you can control his head and make sure he can't use his horns on you while you're doctoring him, because he will need daily care while his wound heals. If your goat is charging you, bring a water hose with a powerful sprayer next time you go in the pen. Say "NO!" or "BACK!" if he comes at you and spray him full in the face if he does not retreat. Only give him his food after he backs away and takes a submissive posture. Speak kindly to him, scratch him, and feed him as long as he's behaving himself. When doctoring his neck, snub him up short to the fence by the halter so he can't whip his head around and hook you with his horns. 

I found that the best way to cure my goat from jumping fences was to make sure he was happy in his enclosure. Does your goat have any other goat friends? If not, he needs one as soon as possible, and one he won't beat up. The best type of companion for a young, aggressive wether might be an older, larger goat who isn't aggressive but who also won't put up with bad manners and can't be intimidated. Your goats also need toys they can climb on and rake their horns over. Be aware that retraining a goat like this takes time and dedication, and perhaps a complete reworking of your fencing and goat keeping situation. Make sure you love him enough and have plenty of time for this project before you commit to keep him. Be honest in evaluating your ability to handle and train him and his ability to learn new ways. It's not fair to you or the animal to keep him if he's dangerous.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I think you need to make a hard choice here.

I am strongly against tethering of goats because of the risk of injury which in this case has already happened. Now you have an animal with no manners that is in pain...

Does he live alone tied up? He's probably lonely...

Perhaps with a lot of time you could retrain him but you'll need to be assertive and not stand down. And very patient.

He knows you're afraid of him. He's practiced bad habits/behavior for two years now.

Aggressive + large + horns + can't safely and humanely contain him... I think it's in his best interest to have him butchered. Because he's probably miserable and because someone is going to get seriously injured...


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Here's a link on how to use rubber bands for removing a goat's horns. If the link doesn't show up, look in the Health & Wellness section of TGS. It's right at the top.

camooweal

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/tutorial-surgically-banding-horns-177793/


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow... well I haven't had a chance to read through all of the comments, but I must say, this animal is not one I'd ever want here. If he is being a pain, and is a danger, why keep him? Why keep him tied up? If he can't be handled to treat his injuries, or any other needs, why keep risking your safety, and his health?

It's a tough decision, but around here he'd be gone in a heartbeat. My rule is, if a goat is not safe in the pen with my kids <9-17>, then they can't be here. 
There are a lot of wonder wethers out there who would enjoy a great home, who aren't unmanageable, or fence jumpers.

JMO. Good luck with whatever you decide


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Can you put a goat halter on him (instead of the collar)? That might help with the healing. 
Best of luck with whatever you decide. There are a lot of really nice goats out there, a big mean
scary one sure isn't much fun.


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## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

Goats Rock said:


> Can you put a goat halter on him (instead of the collar)? That might help with the healing.
> Best of luck with whatever you decide. There are a lot of really nice goats out there, a big mean
> scary one sure isn't much fun.


Thanks for the suggestion. I think that would be a good option for when he is on the line, as well as a wider leather collar as a back up (thanks to the person who suggested that)

Hes not destined for slaughter and is with us for the long run, so I have to look at ways to make his (and ours!) life a bit easier. I have been looking at retraining him too.

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions


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## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

Damfino said:


> I had a goat that jumped fences and I found that I could tether him comfortably if I used a wide leather collar. Nylon is very abrasive, and the narrower the collar the more likely it is to chafe. After disinfecting I would use udder balm on the area to sooth the skin and lubricate it so the collar can't keep chafing while it's trying to heal. A fleece horse halter pad under the collar could also help protect his neck from further injury.
> 
> If your goat is unruly, you should get a halter for him with a short catch rope. I usually don't leave halters on animals, but if one is determined to be unmanageable, then he needs to wear a halter so you can control his head and make sure he can't use his horns on you while you're doctoring him, because he will need daily care while his wound heals. If your goat is charging you, bring a water hose with a powerful sprayer next time you go in the pen. Say "NO!" or "BACK!" if he comes at you and spray him full in the face if he does not retreat. Only give him his food after he backs away and takes a submissive posture. Speak kindly to him, scratch him, and feed him as long as he's behaving himself. When doctoring his neck, snub him up short to the fence by the halter so he can't whip his head around and hook you with his horns.
> 
> I found that the best way to cure my goat from jumping fences was to make sure he was happy in his enclosure. Does your goat have any other goat friends? If not, he needs one as soon as possible, and one he won't beat up. The best type of companion for a young, aggressive wether might be an older, larger goat who isn't aggressive but who also won't put up with bad manners and can't be intimidated. Your goats also need toys they can climb on and rake their horns over. Be aware that retraining a goat like this takes time and dedication, and perhaps a complete reworking of your fencing and goat keeping situation. Make sure you love him enough and have plenty of time for this project before you commit to keep him. Be honest in evaluating your ability to handle and train him and his ability to learn new ways. It's not fair to you or the animal to keep him if he's dangerous.


Great advice, thanks  We are looking at the fencing. He has a pony companion, so I dont think hes too lonely, but the line tethering has made him irritable and jumpy.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

If the was a dog and was a danger to you and your family would you keep him?
I am sorry but no animal is worth risking major injury to humans it is best to get rid of the Animal before some one you love ends up in the hospital or worse.
there are too many great goats with great loving personalities out there to waste your time, frustration and worry on a dangerous animal. 
this goat needs to have a case of fast moving lead poisoning. soon and replace him with a great goat personality.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'd like to clarify that you should NOT tether your goat by the halter--only use a halter for catching and controlling while you work with him. Using a halter to tether is dangerous because a halter has far more leverage than a collar, and with as much slack as a tether allows, your goat could injure his spine if he pulls too hard at the wrong angle. He could also strangle himself since a halter can't rotate around the neck like a collar when the goat twists. Also, a halter will chafe his face and then you'll have two injuries to deal with. Get a wide leather collar and lubricate the wound with Bag Balm or pawpaw ointment. This will help protect his neck until you can fix your fence. A handkerchief tied under the collar could also help protect the wound. 

I understand why you might want to keep your goat even if he's difficult because I also have one like that. Mine was raised with horses and he became aggressive after a few years but I kept him anyway. I've worked with my goat to where he is manageable, but I also understand that he will never be trustworthy around strangers and especially children. Watch to make sure your goat doesn't become aggressive toward your pony. My mean goat started hounding one of my older mares to the point where he was becoming dangerous. He also picked fights with the other horses who would then kick, bite, and trample him. It was not a good situation. In hindsight what my goat really needed was another goat to play rough with. Horses and goats can sometimes get along famously, but in my goat's case not so much. The horses taught him a lot of bad habits that were really hard to break later on. He figured that if he could beat up a horse, he could beat up anybody. You don't want your goat to get as bad as mine was. 

At only two years old, your goat has time to learn. This is the stage in life where many young wethers will test the boundaries to see what they can get away with. He wants to know who's boss and right now he's thinking it's him. However, if his living situation is the root cause of his bad manners, then you need to fix the things that are making him unhappy. Otherwise his attitude problems will continue to resurface. 

Good luck!


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

NZgirl said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I think that would be a good option for when he is on the line, as well as a wider leather collar as a back up (thanks to the person who suggested that)
> 
> Hes not destined for slaughter and is with us for the long run, so I have to look at ways to make his (and ours!) life a bit easier. I have been looking at retraining him too.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the great suggestions


Is he really happy?

Is he just in view of the pony? Or are they housed together? I second that he needs a goat friend.

If you truly want to keep him then you need to make sure he is happy, healthy, and safe.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

We might do well to remember that the OP does not live in the USA and animals are kept many different ways around world quite happily.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Since you are committed to keeping him and making changes then I would also review his diet. Excess protein can make difficult animals more aggressive. 

Let us know how he progresses with behavior training and if you decide to band his horns! A large breed disbudded wether playmate may be just what he needs to burn off his energy as well once he is dehorned!


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

goathiker said:


> We might do well to remember that the OP does not live in the USA and animals are kept many different ways around world quite happily.


I was not attacking the OP. That was not my intent.

My intent is that serious efforts must be taken or it is not fair to this animal. No matter what country you live in.

And my suggestions were not different than others.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I have 2 intact bucks going through the terrible twos. The more you handle him etc the better off he's going to be... He might grow out of it, but I'm guessing that being tethered is adding to his attitude. I'm not sure if you have "invisible" dog fencing where you are at or not but it worked well for my escape artist. I had to tether poor Charlie my ober buck last year because he wanted in with the girls.... Figured that this wasn't a good idea. I have an invisible dog fence up for my dog, that isn't invisible. I wanted her to see the yellow wire.... I got to thinking maybe this would work for Charlie... I took the yellow wire around the fence line of the bucks pen, and low and behold the collar worked....(they get warning beeps a few feet away from the fence, but then it shocks them when the get to the fence line) Worked like a charm.... I only had to use it for 3 weeks, and now he is respectful of my original electric fence Charlie has never been aggressive towards me though, he was just being a pill is all. I did have a Saanen buck that turned a year in March that I had to take to the auction about a month ago.... He also had huge horns. He almost killed Charlie one night, the next night he came after me... I was then afraid of him, and off to the auction he went. You also might want to look at dietary things that would make him not feel well, lack of copper or selenium, iodine... Not sure what's available where you are at though, but it's worth looking into.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Just a thought on this unruly wether ... was the castration one hundred percent successful??? Could he possibly have been left with one testicle; may be worth checking. It is possible to have both testes in the rubber ring but when removing the pliers one will occasionally slip back out and if the person doesn't check both are still in place when the pliers are free, you've got yourself a stag (half buck/half wether). 

camooweal


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

camooweal said:


> Just a thought on this unruly wether ... was the castration one hundred percent successful??? Could he possibly have been left with one testicle; may be worth checking. It is possible to have both testes in the rubber ring but when removing the pliers one will occasionally slip back out and if the person doesn't check both are still in place when the pliers are free, you've got yourself a stag (half buck/half wether).
> 
> camooweal


Could very well be. I had one like that, although he stunk like a buck, and acted Bucky..... Don't know if all will do that though...


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

CritterCarnival said:


> I think she means no one else will take him...because he's :evil:.
> 
> He's dangerous, he's going to hurt someone sooner or later...he needs to be sent to freezer camp.


I could not agree more. This animal is dangerous. He has to go. If you can't get near enough to treat his injury without risking getting hurt then shoot him where he stands and butcher him before the wound gets infected.
I know I sound harsh but I have no use for dangerous animals. A sweet goat eats the same as a devil goat.


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

HoosierShadow said:


> Wow... well I haven't had a chance to read through all of the comments, but I must say, this animal is not one I'd ever want here. If he is being a pain, and is a danger, why keep him? Why keep him tied up? If he can't be handled to treat his injuries, or any other needs, why keep risking your safety, and his health?
> 
> It's a tough decision, but around here he'd be gone in a heartbeat. My rule is, if a goat is not safe in the pen with my kids <9-17>, then they can't be here.
> There are a lot of wonder wethers out there who would enjoy a great home, who aren't unmanageable, or fence jumpers.
> ...


I have the same rule here. I once bought a beautiful pregnant registered doe. She was a perfect angel with adults but would butt my children if they were in the pen. They could be quietly ignoring her and she would rush at them and butt them. I didn't try to train her or play goat-shrink. I called another breeder who doesn't have children, told her the story and she bought my "perfect" goat. :wave:


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

VVFarm said:


> I have the same rule here. I once bought a beautiful pregnant registered doe. She was a perfect angel with adults but would butt my children if they were in the pen. They could be quietly ignoring her and she would rush at them and butt them. I didn't try to train her or play goat-shrink. I called another breeder who doesn't have children, told her the story and she bought my "perfect" goat. :wave:


I've rehomed two goats because of this. Not surprisingly they were both bottle raised from the same people, actually mother-daughter. I just won't keep mean animals on my property. Not worth it.

I did alpha roll the younger one and she stopped for a while, but then hackles started raising again anytime my one year old played in the yard. She's getting picked up tomorrow to go live with an older lady with no kids.


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## NZgirl (Dec 1, 2015)

Thanks for the thoughtful replies everyone. The wound has healed quickly and he is much happier back on his wire lines. We are reassessing our fencing for a more permanent situation for him.

For reasons beyond the scope of this discussion this goat will not be killed. 

I thank everyone for their input! Some very useful advice has really helped me out


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

It is always hard when we have a problem like you are facing but sometimes we need to just take care of it. My husband just butchered a buck we were having problems with. The buck was reg. -good bloodlines, but had a difficult personality for me to deal with. I would not pass this along to anyone else so he is now hamburger. He was well taken care of here and the end was very quick and that always helps me justify butchering. We like to produce some of our own meat and goat meat is really good. I was worried about the buck meat but added pork fat to the burger and it is delicious. It is a relief for me to not have to deal with him every day. Yours sounds like someone could be hurt and those big guys could do a lot of damage. Mine was a Nigerian. I was cornered year ago by a nubian buck I had and I know I could have been seriously hurt had I not got him under control -to dangerous to mess with.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

NZgirl said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful replies everyone. The wound has healed quickly and he is much happier back on his wire lines. We are reassessing our fencing for a more permanent situation for him.
> 
> For reasons beyond the scope of this discussion this goat will not be killed.
> 
> I thank everyone for their input! Some very useful advice has really helped me out


I'm glad he has healed and doesn't have that aggravation contributing to his behavior. I truly hope ya'll are able to find a safe and workable long-term solution. Best wishes...


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

There's a man in the next town over that raises deer, possibly to sell for private hunts (the bucks have huge antlers) anyway, he has fencing that is doubled in height. It's probably 8-9 feet high. Can you extend your fencing up to keep him contained?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

NZgirl said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful replies everyone. The wound has healed quickly and he is much happier back on his wire lines.


So glad to hear this! Not having that wound should help improve his attitude (or at least if he still has an attitude you know it's not because he's in pain).


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The OP has made it clear that this buck will not be going in the freezer. Unless you have a suggestion to help with containing him, do not reply. We will delete your reply. 

Karen
Forum Moderator


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## cfish001 (Sep 1, 2015)

NZgirl said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful replies everyone. The wound has healed quickly and he is much happier back on his wire lines. We are reassessing our fencing for a more permanent situation for him.
> 
> For reasons beyond the scope of this discussion this goat will not be killed.
> 
> I thank everyone for their input! Some very useful advice has really helped me out


Our bucks were jumping the fence to get in with the girls. We had to buy welded wire fencing and just added that to the existing fence. It is rather pricey around here - paid around $80 per panel but they are 5' tall and 16' long. Our goats have not been able to jump that fence and it has worked well.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I am planning a new buck pen to build next summer. I am going to make it with 5 foot chain link fencing on the outside and cattle panels on the inside for more strength. If a person uses t-posts and regular hardware instead of all the fancy stuff, the chain link fabric itself isn't anymore expensive than 4"x 4" goat fencing and is so easy to put up.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

For an established jumper I would make sure the fence is _at least_ 6' tall. I once watched my big wether jump a 6' horse panel from a standstill like it was easy.


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

Have you thought about going up with strands of wire and electrifying it? And running electric around the lower part of his yard too just so he learns respect for the fence? We built our buck paddock with 6ft mesh and ran electric around the bottom middle and top. None of our bucks have escaped this but our wether used to jump it all the time! He would only jump the fence near the girls to go in with the girls so we extended that with electric strands that kind of angled into the buck paddock. This stopped him really quick. He now lives with the girls any way as we have more bucks and he isn't needed as a companion to a single buck.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Are there some sturdy trees around?

Maybe get stock panels or something similar and do two levels using the trees as the posts since they are strong.

+/- a line or two of electricity to keep him wary of getting close to it?

If you are determined to keep him.

Plus lots of training every single day so he behaves himself and you can handle him safely.


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