# Would registering be worth it?



## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

So I finally have my own buck, registered with USBA...non of my does are registered though. I've been considering selling % doelings for breeding (once I finally have enough for myself), somewhere down the line. 

Think I should start registering any potential doelings sired by him? I plan on keeping a quite a few for myself (confirmation, etc pending of course), and purchasing another buck for 2017 breeding. 

One can delay registering them until you know you are keeping them right? Say....6 months or so down the road. Sorry, never really dealt with registrations.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I know with ADGA you can register older but it costs more after 6 months of age. 

I would register what you want to keep and offer to register doelings you sell ( at buyers cost if they want them with papers)


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it's 18 months with US that the price increases. I think it's a smart idea to register the kids, especially the ones your keeping since the % goes up every generation. I second guessed myself at first but now I have 98% kids that at one time came from a commercial goat (generations before) and that's kinda a good feeling when I look at them


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

That's one nice part with a lot of my does being a savanna cross. A lot are 50/50 or 25 savanna/ 75 boer, and some that I dont know the exact %...... how do you document that? Just put down savanna cross, boer cross, etc for the dam?

I suppose regardless, it only counts after 5 documented generations of being bred to a registered buck?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Just put down savannaXboer or boer cross. The way it goes is 50% then 75%, 88%, 94%, 97%, 98%, 99% and then 99.9% you can never make a fullbood/100% but if you ever get confused on what the % should be on a kid add sire and dames % together then divide by 2.
Now if you do have does that look or are at least 50% boer you can NOA them with USBGA. So say you have a boer looking doe you snap a few pictures and fill out the NOA paper work and that doe is 50%, so breed her to your 100% and you have 75%. I think it's $16 for NOA if your a member. If you find them on Facebook like their page because every once in awhile they will do a sale. Like 50% off NOA or so many registration papers and sometimes even membership. They also have great ladies there! I adore them all just call when you have time because those Texas ladies talk lol but I adore them they are all sweet especially Annette


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'd do it like the others suggested. We use ABGA (hoping USBGA becomes more popular in my neck of the woods!), and we had a doe that was not registered, and bred her, and her offspring to 100% bucks, and this year we have worked up to 97%. I think it's fun to work up to purebred status.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I don't think usbga is very popular here either but then again all the goat farms I've been too were either usbga, adga, or by registered. Abga shows more breeders here than usbga but be never met any of them.

I joined usbga today, once I get the official membership I can get Winston transferred to me and wait to see what I get for kids.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

What exactly are the requirements for the native on appearance? I have several doelings from last year that are all 50% but the buck wasn't registered..... Most of them look boer but some look like Savannahs.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Another quick question, if anyone can answer it. I know I'm kind of de-railing my own thread here but, do you have to tattoo id with registering? I haven't been able to reach them over the phone, and I can't seem to find anything on their site. This is a completely new procedure, something I've honestly never looked into.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't know anything about meat goats, but with dairy breeds they need to be tattooed.

NOA is for goats who are purebred to the best of your knowledge, not mixes who can "pass" as one breed or the other. At least, with dairy breeds. It would be unethical to try to pass a goat as NOA when you know it's a mix.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

deerbunnyfarm said:


> NOA is for goats who are purebred to the best of your knowledge, not mixes who can "pass" as one breed or the other. At least, with dairy breeds. It would be unethical to try to pass a goat as NOA when you know it's a mix.


 It seems to be pretty vague, that's why I would like to talk to someone there. Or someone that's dealt with USBGA's NOA program.

I took a look at their rule book and found these:


> * Native on Appearance entry into the Commercial Herd Book of female (doe) animals only -​* A female (doe) goat of unknown pedigree that demonstrates significant influence of Boer blood and meets the following criteria may be entered into the Commercial Herd Book. *NO *male (buck) may ever be entered into the Commercial Herd Book by Native on Appearance procedures. ​





> Female (doe) animals that have fulfilled all the above conditions shall be entered​ into The USBGA Commercial Herd Book with a permanent notation on the​Certificate of Pedigree that they are Native on Appearance 50% Commercial Does.


 And in the FAQ it says this:


> *Can I register my Boer doe even if her sire & dam were not registered?*
> Yes! We have a Native on Appearance program to help breeders build their breed in an honest manner. With out Native on Appearance program we are able to register a doe whose sire & dam were not previously registered as 50% Boer based on photographs of the animal that are submitted. This animal then can be bred with Fullblood bucks or higher percentage bucks to build your herd. With this program we are able to discourage dishonesty with bloodlines and pedigrees.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No with USBGA the does must look at least half boer. If you know they are half boer then tell them. You can email them pictures before hand and ask if they will except them before hand if your worried
Ok tattoos yes they need to be tattooed. What will happen when you get apply for a membership is you will put down what herd prefix you want, again you can call to make sure one is free. So my herd prefix is 1jw1 that goes in the right ear. Then every goat will have their own ID tattoo. So the year 2016 is F and you give that goat a number. No two goats can have the same tattoos. What I do is first kid born will be F1 then F2 and so on that way I make sure I don't try and use the same number twice.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Also lol sorry got carried away and forgot one part lol US is not very popular here as well, they are bad about putting on shows so the show people want ABGA but I have never not been able to sell a US goat and always for more money then I would have got if they were commercial. You have the US buck so go with it  my personal rule is to only buy ABGA bucks since usbga will take ABGA papers but ABGA will NOT take usbga papers. No way am I telling you to can your buck just something to think of for the next buck maybe. But then again you may do awesome with what your doing so I might be saying all this for nothing lol a lady I know hates ABGA, refuses to have anything to do with them (I'm there a lot of times too lol) so she registers everything with USBGA and does very very well selling her kids


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Jessica84 said:


> No with USBGA the does must look at least half boer. If you know they are half boer then tell them. You can email them pictures before hand and ask if they will except them before hand if your worried.


That's how I was understanding it, I mean, if you have somewhat of an idea of what their pedigree is, it would only help to improve your herd...which is the goal of NOA anyway.



Jessica84 said:


> Ok tattoos yes they need to be tattooed. What will happen when you get apply for a membership is you will put down what herd prefix you want, again you can call to make sure one is free. So my herd prefix is 1jw1 that goes in the right ear. Then every goat will have their own ID tattoo. So the year 2016 is F and you give that goat a number. No two goats can have the same tattoos. What I do is first kid born will be F1 then F2 and so on that way I make sure I don't try and use the same number twice.


Do you have a tattooer that you would recommend? I'm thinking this one for starters? Maybe a nicer one once I get the hang of it, to not have to switch the numbers for each ear.

I figure once I know what my herd prefix is I would just tattoo all the doelings...just so it's out of the way when they are easier to handle. Then I can always just choose who I want to register down the road?



Jessica84 said:


> Also lol sorry got carried away and forgot one part lol US is not very popular here as well, they are bad about putting on shows so the show people want ABGA but I have never not been able to sell a US goat and always for more money then I would have got if they were commercial. You have the US buck so go with it  my personal rule is to only buy ABGA bucks since usbga will take ABGA papers but ABGA will NOT take usbga papers. No way am I telling you to can your buck just something to think of for the next buck maybe. But then again you may do awesome with what your doing so I might be saying all this for nothing lol a lady I know hates ABGA, refuses to have anything to do with them (I'm there a lot of times too lol) so she registers everything with USBGA and does very very well selling her kids


 That sounds like a good way to go, I will be buck hunting for 2017 breeding. I was exploring ABGA and they list a decent amount of breeders that I could maybe find one at. Plus...Montana and Wyoming aren't THAT far away..... :laugh:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That's the tattooer I have, I actually have 2 of them that way I don't have to hang onto a ticked off goat and try and change numbers for the next ear lol it actually does really well, we set out the number and the kids set it up while I do my prefix and catch the next one. I don't see a problem doing them as kids and deciding later on. The tattoos pretty much mean nothing unless there's papers to go with them.
Now just remember if you do get a ABGA buck next all of your offspring as well as the NOA does are not excepted with ABGA. So what I do is with the kids is say I have this kid for sale it is 100% USBGA or 50% ABGA......or whatever the % really is


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice, it's been a huge help. Hopefully I get my herd id info and the new tattooer makes it here soon!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Your very welcome and I hope you do very well with your new adventure


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

So I've been looking over Winston's registration papers and I noticed that his sire is registered with ABGA and his dam is registered with IBGA.... Does ABGA have any qualifications or anything for that? I know it's a shot in the dark but still......it just seems like it would be better if I got into ABGA sooner than later.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I've been kind of googling it and it seems some people have been able to get things switched over? Think it's worth a shot to call ABGA and see what the stance is on it?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Abga will NOT take any papers, or offspring of goats registered under anything other then ABGA. They used to but changed it about 6 years ago :/
Usbga will though. Last year I bought a IBGA goat and sent it to us and they took it no problems


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Sorry to keep bringing this up but, I think his dam may be registered with ABGA too? His sire's id is 10582819. Looking at his papers, his dam's id is 10326070...which comes up in ABGA's registery? So confused lol


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm guessing IBGA's numbers must have been close to ABGA because the pedigrees don't match up?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah if they don't match up that would be my guess but hey a call in wouldn't hurt to double check. The only problem with being double registered is, say the #s for the dame are international numbers then they still won't even look at it. You would have to get ahold of the breeder and ask to do a new app. I sold a doeling to someone and she register threw US and I got her back so I just sent the papers in to have them transferred, both sire and dame were ABGA but they wouldn't do anything with it I had to fill out a new app.
And don't be sorry! It can be confusing and let me tell you it's more easy to ask here then call them at times lol ABGA is kinda on my list right now


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Good news, after sending them an email yesterday explaining the situation, they have requested to see the papers and see if something can be worked out. I'm so glad they are willing to look into it.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Oh cool. Hope that works out! Good luck!


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Starting to get a first hand experience on what everyone's been talking about when dealing with ABGA.....after the previous quick response, I've heard nothing. I've sent two emails, both very politely just asking for any info at all (no reply back), tried calling twice now. Both calls that person is "unavailable", left her a message the first time. The second time I called just a bit ago, same thing, after getting my member # and name, they are suddenly unavailable...said they would transfer me to their voicemail but only hung up (which could have been just a accident I admit). All of these have been spaced about a week or so apart, didn't want to be a total nuisance. Going to try again in a couple hours, still holding out that it has all been just a coincidence or something.

It would be really nice if they were able to work something out with my USBGA buck but that is a real shot in the dark from everything I've read. At this point I'm more curious in a response or anything, just to know what the normal procedure or official standing is with this situation; as I have located and purchased a ABGA buckling (would still like to keep my USBGA buck though somehow). Too bad ABGA doesn't have an NOA program too.

Just for comparison; I've also been sending questions and emails to USBGA about random things and get a response back almost always within 30 min - 1 hr. The one time it wasn't answered right away, I got a message at 9 that night, way past closing hours. 

Also another very small thing that really touched me was with becoming a member with both places. ABGA I got just a generic packet, with the forms and an introductory letter. With USBGA I got an introductory letter, some forms, but I also got some nice confirmation charts, a letter opener, a magnet, a nail file (not that I need that), a keychain and a pen! Just something that little really meant a lot to me for some reason. 

Going to try my best to continue to support and dual register with USBGA just because of the nice service, hopefully it will come in handy down the road.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Say what??!! I'm gonna have to call that Annette and tell her I never got all that lol but yes welcome to the club of ABGA  they have angered me so badly this last month, which I admit I'm easily angered lately lol but I sold a doeling last year with a app. That lady sold it still with the app. So this lady calls me and says hey hopefully you can help me but when I tried to register this goat it came back it couldn't. So I got a copy of the paper she got and it said the doe (mother of the one she has) was not mine at the time of being bred. It also said the side needs to be DNAed before she can be registered. So I take a picture of moms papers that shows is had her since 2011 and the bucks papers with the DNA sticker on it. So she gets back to me that I have to email them saying I own the doe and the buck is DNA tested. Not a big deal just a pain!
THEN I get another message from someone. What that was is I had a USBGA doe bred to ABGA buck, so to keep the % the kids were sold as USBGA. That man I sold to have the goats up and sold them, 2 years ago! Any ways so this lady messages me saying she talked to ABGA and they said she can register the buck and doe with them if I sign off on it. Long story short she got rude at me when I was trying to explain unless she wants 50% kids it is what it is. Finally she called back and they told her yes only 50% but seriously if they just would have said that from the start it would have stopped a hour long argument.
Then!! LOL!!! I called to see what a 98% buckling will do on the off spring since say if you breed a 75% to him it comes out like 72.something. Anyways this lady had no clue! I had to wait while she found her cheat sheet. Again not a big deal but if you work there shouldn't you have some what of a idea how things are?


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Was able to talk to them again, we are back in the getting all the details down stage and getting the breeder involved. There is a small glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel!


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I will never register my goats because of ABGA they have been rude to me every single time and never answer my questions.


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