# Sick Baby goats.



## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi! I have a couple sick boer baby doelings. let me give you a little history. 
About 6 days ago my boer/nubian nanny gave birth to twin girls. Since I just moved down here I didn't have a good shed put up for them so I quickly made a three sided shed with cedar slabs. Apparently it didn't hold the water out well enough because 3 days ago it came a cold hard rain. I went out to check on them after the rain let up a little bit and Allie, the first twin, was laying on top of Sammy, her sister, and wasn't breathing. I quickly picked allie up and kinda pushed her aside so I could get to Sammy who was mewing at me a little. when I pushe allie aside she gasped and mewed a little bit. I did CPR on them until they were breathing then ran to the house with them and submerged them in a sink of tepid water and got some molasses mixed with warm water down them. after they were moving around a little better and holding up their own heads I dried them off with a hair dryer. Now they are not holding their body temperatures very well and I am having to bottle feed them because they start shivering every time I let them outside. 
The first day, when they were 4 days old, I was feeding them about 4 ounces of milk, which was a mixture of whole cows milk and canned goats milk and a little bit of molasses because they were still so weak. I noticed that allie was scouring really watery yellow, and Sammy started gettin a real snotty nose, so I took Allie mostly off the milk and started giving her warm water with electrolytes and Nutri Drench, and cleaned Sammy's nose and put a couple drops of vetrx in each nostril. 



The second day, yesterday, I just fed Sammy the milk without any molasses in it and upped her milk just a little bit. I kept Allie on the eletrolyte mix. Allie acted pretty well fine, except she had a little bit of a snotty nose, and now her scours were green. Sammy's nose was still snotty, so I gave them both a dose of duramycin-10. Allie kept scouring this super green, super watery poop, so I took her in for a fecal exam, and it came back negative for every thing. 

This morning, Allie's poop looks a little better. it's a little more brown and isn't quite as runny. The snotty noses are clearing up a little, but I am still putting vetrx in their noses 2-3 times a day. 

So the question is, what is week old baby goat poop supposed to look like? How much should I be feeding them and how many times a day? How can I clear allie's scours up? and what caused them? what about the snotty noses and getting them to hold their own body temps without a heat lamp? 

I am new at bottle babies. I have only tried to raise a bottle baby once before and that was only because I lost her momma during the birth. I ended up losing the baby too. Please help, I don't want to lose anymore due to ignorance!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

First, you should always do a full course of antibiotics so a resistance doesn't build. I would keep them on the antibiotics for 5 days.

I like to start out with giving 1 ounce per pound of body weight. So a 4 lb goat would get 4 ounces of milk per feeding. Then increase the amount as you see they are hungry. I start out with 4 bottles a day. Can you milk mom? If you could milk mom, getting her milk would be best but if not, cow's milk is fine.

I think their immune systems are low and that is why they can't keep a temp. I would just keep them in the house for now. You can put diapers on them.

I would also give them B Complex daily for a few days and give them a BoSe shot (selenium).


----------



## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Ok. No, Mama is NOT going to let me milk her, lol. I did find some raw goats milk though, so I am going to change from th cow milk to the goat milk. 
I guess I am doing about right then, the baby's only way 5-6 pounds so about 5 ounces is about right, right? I was feeding them about 5-6 times a day, so may have been feeding too often? I am having a hard time getiing Sammy to take the bottle. Sometimes she eats good, sometimes she cry's and fights. Maybe a belly ache? do you think I need to give her an enema? 

Thanks!


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yup continue the duramycin for 5 days. I agree with everything that was said already.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have they been pooping and peeing? Yes, I would cut back on number of bottle feedings. I would feed about 5 ounces 4 times per day now. Don't sweat it if they don't finish.

I would probably add a pinch of baking soda to their next bottle too.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good job in rescuing them!! 
For your little doe I would not give her any milk until poop is firmer..I think 5 oz is a bit much...she is having trouble digesting it ...for a six pound baby 2.4 oz four times a day is plenty, but for now her tummy needs a break..I would give her quality electros with a pinch of baking soda for 12-24 hours...CD antitoxin will help her tummy and Like Karen said..B complex for energy and apatite. I agree with keeping up with antibiotics for 5 days...re weigh the babies weekly to adjust the amount of milk they need...
here is how to fingure it out
6 pounds x16 oz= 96 oz (babies weight in oz)x 10%=9.6 divided by 4 feedings= 2.4 oz http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/overfeedingnewbo.html


----------



## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you so much!!! I will keep you updated!. Sammy hasn't pooped very much. how many times a day are they supposed to poop? what is it supposed to look like?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

poop for a week-2 weeks old will be yellow ..pebble formed but usually stuck together..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.UWluj7V3Z0M
But then begins to form nice brown berries like mom.only smaller...I read they should poop 4-6 times a day..although I have not counted : )


----------



## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Y'all have been a lot of help!!! Allie and sammy are doing well now. I am feeding them about 6 ounces 3 times a day and putting them on their momma once a day. their mom isn't making very much milk right now, she only makes enough to give them a belly full once a day. They are gaining weight, poop is normal, and they are holding their body temp way better, though I still have to bring them in when it starts cooling off. 

Thanks for your help!!!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good news : )


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

We have several lamancha bottle babies! Not sure of their ages bought them and lady couldn't tell me! What's a good avg. amount to feed them and how many times a day! We are gone from 7:00 am to 5 pm any suggestions?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

are these bottle babies? About how old do you THINK they are? do they have umbilical cords still? 

for milk...weigh them and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz..then multiply that by 10% to see how much milk they need per day..divide into 3-4 bottles a day..

suggest whole cows milk if no goats milk is availble

being gone all day like that can make it very hard for bottle babies...you will need to feed them before you leave, when you get home and before you go to bed...they will need a safe place to be with good shelter with hay to nibble and a shallow water dish...


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Some still have cords! Probably 2-4 weeks old. We are trying milk replacer! Lost one a bit ago to scouring


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

some babies don't do well on replacer..sorry you lost one : ( ...try whole cows milk...its easier on their tummies..but if you do..switch over slowly...by adding 1/4 cows to 3/4 replacer..then after a day or so do 1/2 1/2 then 3/4 cows and 1/4 replacer then finally all cows milk..
if one get the scours...stop all milk. give electrolytes only,CD antitoxin and pepto..as well as B complex as a support..
dont over feed...if you stay with replacer, be sure to measure very careful and feed just what they need based on weight...the bags can suggest way too much milk for them to digest...best go by weight...
the age requires 3 bottles ...so divide daily amount by 3 feedings...

best wishes


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Which replacer?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

It's save a kid goat milk replacer


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

How long do you stop all milk and how much pesto? Also just a regular B complex? What exactly is the CD antitoxin?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Pepto?


----------



## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm not 100% sure of how much luck people have had with Save-A-Kid...I'd start switching over to whole cow's milk probably. 

The B Complex is an injectable. Can be found at Tractor Supply or another feed store. The dosage is 1cc per 20 lbs. 

CD Antitoxin is for the treatment of enterotoxemia and other rumen problems..it flushes out any toxins. When buying this, DON'T get it confused with CD/T Toxoid or Tetanus Antitoxin. 

Pepto=Pepto Bismol, the bright, bubble gum pink human medicine. I'm pretty sure the dose is the same as the human one, but I'll try to verify that for you.


----------



## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

Ok...Pepto dose is 5cc for kids approaching 1 month old.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok thanks


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sav a kid milk replacer is not a good one. Try to get land o lakes does match milk replacer.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree....I would switch to whole cows milk or a better quality replacer as mentioned...usually 12-24 hours of electros, baby firms up...

at age 3 weeks kids should be treated for cocci...Baycox is awesome but needs to be ordered...horeseprerace.com....but since you have a problem with poops..I would treat everyone ASAP...Dimethox is a good OTC choice...and can be found at most tractor supply or other farm stores...
its used straight, undiluted...1 cc per 5# day one and 1 cc per 10# day 2-5


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Vaccinate or orally


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Coccidia treatment is orally. Coccidia is basically a parasite.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

So do the dimethox undiluted orally and do electrolytes


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

And b complex


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. But B Complex is an injection. The other 2 are oral.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Yes thank you


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Do you do pepto or kaopectate too?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I usually don't. If I would use anything, it would be pepto. Pepto and products like it hide the problem. You really want to treat the problem and not just the symptoms.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I use Pepto...as long as you are also treating the cause..its fine...as Karen said..you dont want to JUST treat the symptoms..'


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

We have 11 bottle babies should we treat them all like this


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Electrolytes and other stiff


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would treat everyone for Cocci..but only the ones with runny bums with electros and pepto...as long as they are pooping fine...Keep with the milk


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Treat everyone yes. 

As mentioned save a kid is not a good one to use. Should be name "kill a kid" instead! Everyone who has ever used it that I hear about never have good results!! 

Whole milk or does match replacer would be my recomendation as well. 

Pepto only a couple times a day for one to two days then stop. You want to be sure the problem is fixed by the treatment and not just being masked by the pepto. The pepto is good to help them from loosing to much fluids to fast while the treatment is taking time to work.


----------



## Goatsmom (Mar 18, 2014)

Is 3 c.c.s of electolite enough?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you would want to feed the same in electros as you would milk...so if baby ger 2 oz of milk..he should have 2 oz of electros...

weighing baby is the best way to know how much is enough...
weight x 16 = weight in oz
weight in oz x 10% = how much per day they need
divide into 3-4 bottles...

check tummy after each feeding...you want a flat but firm tummy not sunken or poochy...adjust bottle a little +/- until you have that flat firm tummy..

best wishes


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

How often do you give the b vitamin


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

B complex is once a day


----------



## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Just asking-- I've seen several people mention lambars -- a bucket of milk with nipples for kids. Would those be helpful in this situation since no one is home to feed them during the day?


----------



## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

Its an option you have to get babies used to cold milk


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Have lost 3 babies in last 2 days! Have been doin Electrolytes last 24 hours also giving pepto b complex and dimethox what else can I do! Scouts are watery and a dark green to brown color


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

How many days have you given the DiMethox? Do you have C & D Antitoxin?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Yesterday and today and no o don't


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

I forgot it when I went to the store yesterday what else?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Covexin 8 what I have


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is not antitoxin, that is toxoid. Do not use that. Do you have Milk of Magnesia?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

No but can get some what do I do with it


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

How do I use milk of magnesia


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would give it orally. Do a search for dosage.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok bit isnt it a laxative!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It also removes toxins from the rumen.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok I found dosage


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

M.O.M is 15 cc per 60# orally..it wont help the runs but will flush the toxins building...

Im so sorry you are dealing with so much loss....Dont use any pepto while using MOM..keep the well hydrated!!!


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

I have resorb and have been giving about 5 oz per time is that enough


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Could you list all you are doing in one post...so we can see if we are missing anything..


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

how many feedings?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Giving electrolytes 5 oz per time 3 times daily. Gave pepto this morning and this afternoon 5 cc, sulfadimethoxone yesterday and today, b shot yesterday and today and they are coughing so penicillin too


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Don't know what else to do?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...so kids are abut 9# ish?? Runs can be problematic through the whole cocci treatment...some kids dry up fast while others struggle...Do they also have a bowel of water in their pen?...keeping the hydrated is super important while they fight the runs...

I would add daily probiotics..


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

can you have a fecal done...to confirm cocci? make sure theres nothing else going on..did they get colostrum at birth?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

7-8 # weighed yesterday


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok we have our scouring ones together and our well ones together in separate pens! Have water in both!


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

What probiotics is best! Also do I give mom getting ready to go out for another round gave pepto at 4


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it sound like you are doing everything you can...if after the cocci treatment some still have runs..then we need to look to other reasons..right now Cocci seems you best bet and you dont want to over load. babies with a lot of meds..the ones you lost may have already been weakened by cocci...
as soon as you can get a good look at everyones lower inner eye lids for color..if they are pale we need to address the anemia as well..hopefully you caught the others on time, since no runny butts yet ..so that is good..

electro amount if good : ) 
I like probiotic paste but you can get powdered to add to their electrolytes..


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

remember..if you use MOM dont use Pepto...


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok thanks so much for your input. Very discouraging to continue losing babies! Will


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Get probiotics tomorrow and check eyes


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Continue electrolytes only right?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand... you are doing your best!!:sadhappy:


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Went out last night round 9:30 gave sick ones electrolytes everyone seemed ok. Went out now 3 more stretched out all from same place beginning to wonder if they even had colostrum! Can a vets office do a culture on feces in house?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Got to figure out what we are dealing with!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. Vets usually do fecals in house.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

We have some on on pine shavings will it be ok to take it on like that?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

In like that


----------



## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

Are you taking temp? I think it's very important that you know the temp of a sick animal, it can tell you a lot. Also, I have always had great success in clearing up diarrhea with SpectoGard (sold at TSC for pig scours). My experience comes from sick calves but I'm sure it's similar to goats. If not, someone can correct me.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. That would be contaminated. You need a fresh sample.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Everyone that can give us a sample is dead


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Take one in for necropsy. I'm sorry you lost so many.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

What is that?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Is it like an autopsy?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. That should give you answers.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Expensive?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Depends on the vet. You would need to call your vet and ask. You can also see if the state lab will do it for free.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok thanks


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...it maybe the only way to see whats killing your babies...if they didn't get colostrum then they will have a harder time fighting off infection and such...cocci will be deadly...also theres e coli, Salmonellosis, crypto....the list goes on...so knowing will be your best bet of saving the rest...here is a article on cocci..it offers some additional things you might try...
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/coccidiosis06.html

so very sorry...I know this must break your heart...just keep trying!


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Took one in to the vet for a necropsy-clostridium perfringen! Fingers crossed we don't continue to lose more! Strange how all we lost were bought from the same farm-I suspect little to no colostrum early on!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I bet you are right, sounds like no colostrum...CD Antitoxin is needed...did the vet give you any? Milk of Magnesia can be used if not...

cd antitoxins only job is to rid the body of toxins while it mends...MOM does the same thing but does not help the scours...but is needed just the same..so keeping the hydrated is that much more important

let me explain how I understand clostridium perfringen toxicity, also known as over eater disease and more formally.enterotoxemia works...

every goats has the clostridium perfringen bacterium in their gut...when something happens to slow the gut down, the bacteria begins to multiply over whelming the system...in your babies case the runny poo slows the gut down...so clearing that up and getting them eating hay...NO GRAIN keep the hydrated..switch from pepto which does not seen to be working to spectoguard ..along with probiotics and B complex...

also knowing the cause of the runny poo so you can help stop it...could be milk switch,,kind of milk used or over feeding..or Cocci....


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

So offer hay and what is spectoguard ? Do I keep giving b complex?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

spectoguard is a pig oral medication to help with runs...I got it at tractor supply...fairly cheap...

http://www.jefferspet.com/products/spectogard-scour-chek

Yes..do B complex once daily and probiotics once daily...


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Thanks so much


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Any probiotics that's the best?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

your welcome...how are the other babies doing?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

So far so good! Wow this has been one crazy ride! Heartbreaking to lose all those sweet little things!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know its hard....makes me cry every time!!!...You are doing great work!! Those babies didn't have a great start...keep the faith!! Things will get better as they win this battle!!!


----------



## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

How much probiotics do you give to sick kids happy bleats?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I use the paste and I give a pea size..


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

How much spectoguard? Still have 1 scouring some


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

looks like the same as the pig dose is needed...1 ml for under 10# and 2 ml for over 10# twice daily...


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Went out tonight baby walking on its knees what now?


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

all fours or just front? any swelling on joints? if you pick him up and put him on all fours...is he able to stand ?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Only front 2 and yes he can stand. He is shakey


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

any swelling? whats his temp and check his lower inner eye lids for color


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Just don't understand vet told us last week to give clostridium perfringen c and d antitoxin and it would take approx. 10 days for it to take effect! It's been 7 days today and we hadn't lost any until today and have lost 2 today


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

What are we lookin on inner eye lids and how do I check tjst


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Antitoxin is immediate but only lasts a couple weeks. It is the toxoid that takes 2 weeks to take effect.


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

We gave toxoid I was wronv


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.VRC8FjTF-mE

here is a link to show how to check the eye...if they are pale they are anemic from the worm/cocci load 
any join swelling in the legs of the weak one?

I would be giving the antitoxin every 6 hours until they got through this...

how old are these babies now?


----------



## Jaxon_2011 (Mar 1, 2015)

Their ages vary!


----------

