# Rough start/oxygen deprivation/hyperventilating



## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

I had two almost back to back labors yesterday (they were supposed to be 5 days apart but you know how we girls can be). The first was extremely rough and I haven't experienced this before so wondering if anyone has any advice or input. 

The first two kids were super tangled, nose to crotch, facing each other in a hug, all limbs wrapped around each other, both trying to exit little mama in unison. I had to go in and feel around to disentangle everyone which took way longer than I wish it did. Almost an hour but there was some serious circus contortionist stuff going on. Baby #1 finally got her head out but no limbs. While I was working on that, every time Mama would have a contraction, she would get her air supply cut off. After a couple of contractions I realize that if I put two fingers in mama's vagina during contractions and made room for a little one to breathe, that worked. It still took another 15 minutes or so to get her out and at one point her eyes rolled back into her head and I didn't think she was going to make it. Long story short, she made it! Her entangled sister did not. Girl number three made it and it's perfect.

Girl #1 that was deprived of oxygen was panting like crazy for hours straight after birth. I gave her vitamin B, selenium, jump start, colostrum and have helped her nurse every 2 hours since. This was almost twenty-four hours ago. She finally was able to stand and take a few steps but when she does she collapses and starts panting again after a short while. She needs help getting on the teat and sometimes can't suckle despite being given more vitamin B. I squirt mama milk right into her mouth and she drinks it fine like that or I syringe feed her which she struggles with more for whatever reason. After 24 hours almost, she hasn't really gotten any stronger and I do think it's an absolute miracle that she made it through the night but what can I do? Anyting? The poor little thing starts hyperventilating after trying to walk or after eating. Once she has a full belly and has slept for a while her breathing returns to normal. I'm sure this must have to do with oxygen deprivation and hopefully not injury though anything is possible. I know it's probably just a waiting game but if anyone has any ideas that I haven't tried I would be super grateful to hear it.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

@GoofyGoat @happybleats @Jessica84 @toth boer goats @ksalvagno @Moers kiko boars 

Sounds like you’ve done everything right. Hopefully these more experienced people can help! Praying she recovers!


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

Thank you so much. I'm hoping so too as this is something I've never experienced before. Beyond what I'm doing and going out every two hours to make sure she's fed I just don't know if there is anything else I can do but hoping someone has an idea I hadn't thought of.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Was the umbilical cord still connected, as her air was shut off? By reading this, her head was out of the sac? Her nose & mouth were exposed? Could you answer that for me?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You just need patience. It is going to take a long time. It will probably take a long while for her to be strong and able to do things on her own.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Was the umbilical cord still connected, as her air was shut off? By reading this, her head was out of the sac? Her nose & mouth were exposed? Could you answer that for me?


Sorry I wasn't very clear, I haven't slept in days. I presume the umbilical cord was still connected but can't honestly be positive. Yes, she was out of the sack and her head was literally the only thing sticking out of mom's vagina her nose and mouth were both exposed. When mom had contractions her vagina would squeeze so tight around little girl's neck that it would cut off her air supply the first couple of times until I realized how to intervene. Her little eyes rolled back into her head and her tongue started hanging to one side. Once she was out, she was panting.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Oh man! Poor baby! I don’t know of anything to tell you to help with her but I am praying for her.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’ve honestly never had this Happen before. I wouldn’t think that if her air was cut off that it would still be causing a issue for her, but I could be wrong. I would listen to her lungs and make sure she doesn’t sound raspy in there. I’m wondering if maybe the issue is she inhaled fluid. I know when animals get pneumonia they will pant like that because the lungs are filling up with fluid. If this is the case I would watch her temp to make sure pneumonia doesn’t set in and just keep a eye on her. I would imagine it would eventually work its way out.
But if it was lack of air as mentioned it might just take some time for her to be 100%.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> You just need patience. It is going to take a long time. It will probably take a long while for her to be strong and able to do things on her own.


That's good to hear -- I have patience in abundance. ♡ Thank you so much. I honestly didn't think she would make it through the first night. I just keep going out every 2 hours to help her nurse.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> I’ve honestly never had this Happen before. I wouldn’t think that if her air was cut off that it would still be causing a issue for her, but I could be wrong. I would listen to her lungs and make sure she doesn’t sound raspy in there. I’m wondering if maybe the issue is she inhaled fluid. I know when animals get pneumonia they will pant like that because the lungs are filling up with fluid. If this is the case I would watch her temp to make sure pneumonia doesn’t set in and just keep a eye on her. I would imagine it would eventually work its way out.
> But if it was lack of air as mentioned it might just take some time for her to be 100%.


No, it doesn't seem like she inhaled fluid. I should have said that I've been checking her breathing and all sounds normal, no temp. I'm not sure if a kid that young could get pneumonia. Maybe it can take barely 24 hours though? Her breathing has been clear but I'll definitely keep listening.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No it shouldn’t have pneumonia so soon but I was think if she inhaled fluid that’s less capacity in her lungs for air. 
So I was trying to find something that would explain what I mean a little better and actually came across this that I found interesting and could be what is going on. It about human babies but I would imagine lungs develop the same no matter the species:






Transient Tachypnea of the Newborn (TTN) (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth


For some newborns, the first few breaths of life may be faster and more labored than normal because of a lung condition called transient tachypnea of the newborn (TTN).




kidshealth.org


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like you did an amazing job getting kids out. Aspiration pneumonia can definitely happen this young. But if her lungs sound clear..that is a good sign. Any weezing when nursing? She may benefit from tube feeding a few times to get enough calories in her. 

Hows mom in all this? If she has swelling you can apply Prep H to help sooth and reduce the swelling. Banamine can help if it's bad and she hurts.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

So good to know about pneumonia this young. I didn't know if that could set in in 24 hours but her lungs sound clear. I just went and checked on her and she's already got down the death nap. Oh my gosh, I scooped her up so fast with so much regret and sadness that I couldn't save her and then she screamed in my ear, LOL. And for the very first time after I put her down she walked slowly over to mama and nursed 100% on her own. Not a ton, but her belly isn't super squishy. I'm going to go back out and check her again in about 30 and if her tummy isn't fully full I'll help her get more.

This is going to sound 100% weird af to most people but it is what it is. I have this "this" where I can feel other people's/animal's emotions and physical pain. During the labor I felt like I was having the beginning of a heart attack at first. Squeezing chest and pain that shot up to my neck and down to one side of my ribcage. Horrible rib pain after the initial chest thing and couldn't breathe well. I presumed it was just the little girl who didn't make it, but I was thinking about it while little love #1 was nursing and I picked her up after to feel around. Loooong weird story to say that it feels like she has 3 or 4 broken ribs on the same side I had rib pain. I felt hers and the third sister and definitely different. Panting girl has 3 or 4 little protrusions where it should be a smooth curve, so now I have that to look into.

Mama's vagina is rough looking so I made an oreganic antiseptic spray and an herbal salve. She seems to be doing pretty well. ❤


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like it would be good to have her checked out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Witch hazel and lavender eo make a great gentle spray for her vulva are. 

Definitely have that babies ribs checked. She had a tough delivery and things happen. Glad she is getting stronger


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

If the umbucal cord was still.attached her blood flow and brain should be ok. Yes her panting could be from rib cage injury. Those muscles around the ribs are part of the diaphram, the muscles used for breathing. So my concern was brain damage. But I doubt their is any.
Sounds like a very rough delivery. I agree, keep checking her lungs. But newborn bones are very pliable, it takes days for them to become stiff.
I would have a vet check her, just to make sure about the ribs.
Seriously it sounds as though you kept your head and did an amazing job. Im sorry for your loss.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with everyone, prayers for the baby. 🙏


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I didn't see where you gave bose? Kids are usually very low on selenium at birth.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Sounds like it would be good to have her checked out.


I'm trying to find a new vet. The only goat vet within an hour and a half of us killed my goat a couple of years ago. 😞 All others have stopped seeing or never have seen goats.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

goathiker said:


> I didn't see where you gave bose? Kids are usually very low on selenium at birth.


I gave selenium gel. Bose requires a prescription here (everywhere?) and we have no close goat vets. I begged our dog vet for a prescription but no go.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

Moers kiko boars said:


> If the umbucal cord was still.attached her blood flow and brain should be ok. Yes her panting could be from rib cage injury. Those muscles around the ribs are part of the diaphram, the muscles used for breathing. So my concern was brain damage. But I doubt their is any.
> Sounds like a very rough delivery. I agree, keep checking her lungs. But newborn bones are very pliable, it takes days for them to become stiff.
> I would have a vet check her, just to make sure about the ribs.
> Seriously it sounds as though you kept your head and did an amazing job. Im sorry for your loss.


Thank you so much. It was rough for sure and I almost lost it but just kept feeling my way through it. The first 2 girls were in the same sack which I've never seen before. Exact same colorings and markings. 

Her brain seems great, thankfully. I was worried about that the first couple of hours but that's one thing I was happy to mark off the list. I found a vet 2 hours away that sees goats and makes farm calls so just waiting for a call back. I don't drive or have a car so fingers crossed I can get her here. Obviously an xray would be best but everyone else here is down with covid. Rough week.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Witch hazel and lavender eo make a great gentle spray for her vulva are.
> 
> Definitely have that babies ribs checked. She had a tough delivery and things happen. Glad she is getting stronger


Yesss!! That's what I use too, with an additional couple of drops of lime eo as that is antiseptic enough to heal gangrene. It's diluted enough that it doesn't sting though. (I used it on a fresh cut just to make sure.) ♡

Working on getting little love checked out. Unfortunately the options around here are slim to none when it comes to coherent veterinarians or anyone that sees goats. Fingers crossed.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There are many excellent goat vets in Oregon. Let me help you find one.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

goathiker said:


> There are many excellent goat vets in Oregon. Let me help you find one.


Oh man, I'd love it if you knew of one near us. I've called every single one multiple times that I can find within a 1.5 hour radius (though I don't drive or have a car). We're almost exactly halfway between Eugene and Roseburg. The one in Oakland killed my doe, basically, so I won't see them and both the one that in Creswell and another in Roseburg stopped seeing goats in the last couple of years.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

farmerA said:


> I'm trying to find a new vet. The only goat vet within an hour and a half of us killed my goat a couple of years ago. 😞 All others have stopped seeing or never have seen goats.


how far away is your state Vet? That may be an option.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> how far away is your state Vet? That may be an option.


At least 2 hours.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

I actually spoke with two vet tech friends today, one in FL and one in SC. Both said that even if she does have broken ribs, just like with human broken ribs, there's nothing that can be done unless it's bad enough to require surgery. That was disappointing to hear.

In positive news, she's having a much easier time nursing. She would lose her balance and not be able to stay on for very long and I was both holding her on and supplementing with syringe every a couple of hours to make sure her belly was plenty full. She still pants after walking and nursing but regains normal breathing a lot faster than she was. Tiny progress is so much better than no progress, thankfully.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Great she is improving.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad to hear she is getting better.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

I'm not sure why I never got notifications of the last replies or why I spaced giving an update but I wanted to share the rest of the story in case anyone has a similar experience in the future. 

Little love started seeming to get a lot better and was able to latch on mama on her own most of the time instead of almost not at all, like at first. She still panted but lungs sounded clear. It felt like she may have had a broken ribs, and then I noticed that her heartbeat seemed really weird. That's when I remembered that my husband's coworkers wife was a vet so he reached out for me. She's had goats but does not see them. Long story short, she came to give little one a look over and as I started to wonder, did in fact have a heart defect and a broken ribs or two. She suspected that her traumatic birth caused the issue and it wasn't a congenital defect. I just made her as comfortable as possible, made sure she was fed and snuggled in with mama and remaining sister at night, and she lived another couple of days but sadly we lost her. The vet said usually an animal will not live very long with a heart issue like that which I guess is obvious. I feel lucky to have been able to bond with her for the few days I did. 💕


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so very sorry to hear this. I just read her whole story. She was so lucky to have been born into such a loving caring home.
I am also an empath and feel your pain. Hope Mama and Sister are well.


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## farmerA (Sep 4, 2019)

luvmyherd said:


> I am so very sorry to hear this. I just read her whole story. She was so lucky to have been born into such a loving caring home.
> I am also an empath and feel your pain. Hope Mama and Sister are well.


Thank you so much. That means a lot to me.

Sister and mama are both great. Big sister is bigger than the big buck born to a different doe on the same night and is such a huge love in all ways imaginable. ❤


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sorry you lost her.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How sad, I am so sorry.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Im so sorry for your loss. Thankyou for living her & doing all you could.💗 Your a great Goat Parent.! Im thrilled the sister & mom are thriving. Hang on to that ladies phone #. What a great connection!


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