# Rejected!



## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I had 2 more gorgeous babies born this morning. The Dam is a FF and she is having a lot of trouble with her mommy instincts. She will not let either kid nurse so I have been supplementing with colostrum. She is however nuzzling the little doeling. She will cuddle with her and lick her...but the poor little buckling is an entirely different story. She will not let him close to her or his sister. Every time he cries it sends her into a tailspin. She knocks him around the kidding stall with her head until he is as far as possible from her or the doeling. Is there anything that I can do to help develop the bond between mamma and son? I hate that he is going through this. I don't want to pull him from her..but I can't let him stay there and get hurt either... suggestions for my poor little rejected buckling?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

My FF didn't care for her doeling. I'd hold her so the doeling could nurse, yes it was a pain but it worked. However she wasn't mean to her so I can't help you on that part.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have Banamine? Give her a shot of Banamine. 1cc per 100 lbs. Sometimes pain makes them not want to be a good mom. Also, are you milking out mom and giving that colostrum? If she smells some other colostrum, she may be rejecting him because he isn't smelling like "hers."


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

They say it is possible to "force" the mother to accept being nursed if you hold her tight while he is sucking, but I personally have never succeeded with that method. Smell is of course important, but it is surely the personal smell of the youngster, that was never "registered" in mother's brain as "Mine To Care For". One trick that MIGHT work is to place her daily ration of goodies (oats and that stuff) on his back.

If she is so convinced he is not hers, no doubt he will get hurt in the end - and very hungry, too, for both milk and loving care. Personally, I would rather soon try the bottle, but, that's me ...

If you chose to hold her, make sure he is not so frightened that he does not try. Easiest to hold up one forleg, like you would do with a horse.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I have milked mom's colostrum but I can't get enough at a time for both babies...So I have had to supplement as well. I milk it out as often as possible. I just got back in from the barn and we did hold her and let him nurse off of her for a while. The thing is, She treated him like this the second he hit the ground. Just left him in a pile of slime. She is not nursing the doe either but at least she seems to be nurturing to her. I tried to let the doe nurse while we were holding her but just couldn't get the little one to do anything. I put the teat in her mouth and even squeezed out colostrum and she just sat there letting it fall out of her mouth. They have never been away from her and are in fact still a little damp from being born, so they have her scent on them still. I just now put a little sugar water on his back hoping that she will respond to that. I guess it's just a wait and see thing at this point.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I would keep trying to work with her for 24 hours. If she won't accept them after that I would have to bottle feed them. I really wish "mommy instincts" came in pill form. This would help a whole lot.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Usually this learning of one anothers smells is done during the very first half hour after birth. So time is getting short. You COULD try to put some placenta on the kids, and see if she starts lecking then, but I doubt it. Another trick that has been used with more than one sheep acting like this is to let the hearding dog (if you have one ...) get just so close that she starts to feel a little - not threatened, but ... tense. If she starts defending herself, she might start defending the small ones too, and then it happens that the hormones get right and she starts taking care of them as well.

This entire behaviour often happens after difficult first experience deliveries. Consider, how many hormones and other things that must get exactly right to make this Wonder Of Life go right. It is easy to understand that it sometimes goes wrong.

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

The little guy wasn't born for about 2 hours after his sister! We found the girl this morning, still wet but up and moving around. Almost 2 hours later we were out there working with her trying to get her to nurse. Mamma was bleeding a bit but we assumed she had delivered placenta and disposed of it. My hubby raised her back leg to get a good angle at the udder to get the doeling to nurse and she started pushing again. We were quite surprised....but after he hit the ground she treated him like an alien!

I'm definitely not going to be able to keep him with her. I just went to check on them and watched her throw him about 3 feet in the air with her horns. Poor guy has a hurt foot/ankle... Guess I need to make a place for him somewhere warm...


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Ahh there's the problem. She bonded with the first one and since the other one was so far behind she thinks its an intruder belonging to someone else. Is she feeding the doeling?


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Not that I have witnessed. I have been supplementing with colostrum from a bottle, and I have tried to get her to nurse while holding mamma still, but can't get the doeling to latch on yet...I will continue trying with her though. I have not had the best of luck this year with my bottle babies, as you know...


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

That was true JenVise but your doing fine now, Rossi is living, breathing, bouncing, loveable proof. Any pictures of the new ones? How about the little 3lber?


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Ruger and Rossi...They are growing and thriving after such a rough start! They are so much fun to watch!








Our dog Jesse is convinced she is their mamma!








Our new little guy after we brought him in, cleaned him up and wrapped his ankle. You can't really tell it but I think he is going to be a lemon-head















Newest little doeling..so darn sweet!!


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

They are so adorable and Rossi and Ruger look really good. I think you've made it over that painful hurdle.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

I sure hope so!!! Thank you!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They sure are cuties!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

thanks!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

OMG they are all so adorable , lolol I love the new little buckling , so freakin cute , and that doe , wow , she is gorgeous 
Im so sorry your having this trouble  Hopefully your hard work and diligence will pay off and the momma will get her momma instincts and take care of her little charges . Congrats


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

Congrads they are adorable..


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Hm, seems as if you have had enough of trouble already. If the birth is painful or difficult in other ways, it happens that the hormons for caring and nursing just don't get right in. Hope you manage this time! GOOOOOD LUCK!!


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Up date on Samson and Delilah: Mamma's instincts finally kicked in and she is taking splendid care of Delilah now. I am no longer having to supplement with a bottle. She never got accustomed to Samson, so I have been bottle feeding him and he is doing SOOO good. Gaining weight everyday and is so incredibly playful and sweet!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Tie up momma and one back leg, the one you will be working from. Put her kids on her to suckle, this will insure her, to be stimulated to drop more milk, the bumping , nudging and nursing will help do this. Put her and the babies in a bonding pen alone, so she can learn to be a momma. Some first time momma's need to be taught. Go out every 2 hours and tie her up and feed the kids. If she gets to where she is excepting them, you won't need to tie up her back leg. Then eventually, not tie her at all. When you go out, sneak and peak to see if she is mothering them or not. If the kids do not want to nurse when you are out there, check their belly's, to see if they are full, if so, they are nursing on their own, when you are not looking. If they are not getting enough, supplement feed. If she is mean to them, remove them and bottle feed. You can get some Oxytocin from a vet for milk letdown. this has to be done, within a reasonable time frame after kidding. Make sure, she is finished kidding. Feed her good Alfalfa, if she isn't use to it, gradually introduce it. give her grain and warm molasses water to encourage her to drink.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks Pam! We did end up having to tie her up to get the doeling to nurse. After doing that a few times, she is now letting her nurse on her own as the little one wishes. We did have to remove the buckling, though. She lifted him up by her horns and rammed him into the wall, knocking him out. I blew in his face and stimulated him to rouse him and he is doing much better now. Every day I take him out to her so she will know that he is hers, but she is still extremely mean to him when she sees him. I'm wondering now if I'm just doing more harm than good by trying to insist on a bond....


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

JenVise said:


> The little guy wasn't born for about 2 hours after his sister! We found the girl this morning, still wet but up and moving around. Almost 2 hours later we were out there working with her trying to get her to nurse. Mamma was bleeding a bit but we assumed she had delivered placenta and disposed of it. My hubby raised her back leg to get a good angle at the udder to get the doeling to nurse and she started pushing again. We were quite surprised....but after he hit the ground she treated him like an alien!
> 
> I'm definitely not going to be able to keep him with her. I just went to check on them and watched her throw him about 3 feet in the air with her horns. Poor guy has a hurt foot/ankle... Guess I need to make a place for him somewhere warm...


 It could of been becasue you were in there. did you all touch the baby much? Sometimes that is all it is. take a little milk put it on the babies head and tail head so it smells like mom. We have also put a little vicks on the mom's nose, then on the babies, that wasy they all smell the same.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

We didn't touch him at all until we realized she wasn't even going to clean him off. As soon as he hit the ground she started snorting and stomping at him, then went right back to the little doeling. When I realized she was just going to let him die in his own goo, I picked him up with gloved hands and cleaned his mouth and nose out. She was out to get him before he took his first breath. I tried to put her milk, her "discharge", and even sugar water on him at different times...she wasn't having any of it.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If you have a table to put her on it might make nursing the baby doe easier..but it sounds like the buck is not going to be accepted..and two hours apart is a long time ... I would work with mom to feed the doe ..it may take you going out every few hours to hold mom but she should take her...sometimes it just takes a day or two..My first kids born this season were twin bucks, mom didnt want either one but after going out every two hours for two days we began to notice full tummies..Yahooo..mom took them. But your buck will need to be bottle raised...also on mom...make sure to massage her udders well and keep a close watch for heat...if she has a congested udder it may be why you are barely getting enough colostrum. Does her udder feel soft or are you feeling hard knots?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the buckling was the first to come into the world, and her being a first timer, she may be blaming that severe pain of delivery on him. Looks like you have a bottle baby now.

I am super happy, she did accept the Doeling, that is a plus.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

lol I wish I just had one bottle baby! I now have 3! I am however getting them all on the same schedule now, so that makes life a lot easier!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would just pull him and stop trying to make her bond. It sounds like it is not going to happen. If you have 2 other bottle babies, maybe you can just put the 3 together to be buddies.


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Oh I have completely pulled him. I haven't tried to get her to nurse him since the day he was born and she knocked him out. I just take him out there more or less to see his sister and mamma...I know...crazy right?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is up to you but, be careful around momma with him.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

They are all precious! So glad the little guy is doing well.  
Is that a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog in your picture?


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Glad they are all doing well Jen


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## JenVise (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks! No, that's our Jesse...is a registered boxer.


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh ok, he's pretty!


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