# Low milk production



## Vern (9 mo ago)

Just got goats for the first time... sable goats, doe and buck. The doe just had a kid but it succombed to the cold before the owners knew she birthed it... so i got the doe 2 days after her kid died... and started milking her (that was yesterday) i got a pint from the first milking and last nights was almost 1/2 cup as were todays milkings. I am milking her 3x a day hoping to encourage milk production... please give any advice as to what i should be doing. I am feeding a grass/alfalfa mix hay and started a oat supplement of 1/2cup to ease her in. Thanks in advance.

Respectfully, Vern


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Can you post pictures? Do you have a good loose mineral out?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The loss of her kid and a new home can decrease production. Good loose minerals, clean water, the hay alfalfa mix and oats and time should help. 
Is she a first time mom?
Does the buck have separate pen? If not he will breed her too soon.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

I got 1cup total this morns milking.


















happybleats said:


> The loss of her kid and a new home can decrease production. Good loose minerals, clean water, the hay alfalfa mix and oats and time should help.
> Is she a first time mom?
> Does the buck have separate pen? If not he will breed her too soon.


I dont have a seperate pen yet, a fact we are going to remedy shortly.









Our feed store and Mercantile doesnt have any goat mineral... can you refer something? I can order it in... im 5 hrs from any town of consequence. Thanks.


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## jlLeslie (12 mo ago)

She looks like she needs some groceries and probably some worming. If you can get a fecal done, that’ll tell you which worms are dominantly hitting her.
She probably will not produce much until she puts some weight back on and is no longer stressed. Kidding plus a new home is a ton of stress for her right now.
Be gradual with the feed take 2weeks to get her up to maybe 2-3lbs of grain a day. I’d also add shredded beet pulp, black sunflower seeds (couple handfuls) to help pack on some weight.
Give her hay free choice as much as she’ll eat (2flakes a day is probably plenty )
For minerals, Sweetlix is the most popular and manna pro works well from TSC. Also, add some sea kelp powder to the minerals, I got a small bag off Amazon.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I like sweet lix meat maker loose minerals. Some like Wind and Rain. She looks to need copper bolus as well. 1 gram per 22# is proper dose. You can get 2 and 4 gram prepared capsules, but are harder to get exact dose unless you open them and either weigh them or what I do..I cut the tip off a 6 cc syringe..dose copper at 1 cc per 60 pounds ( which is super close to the one gram per 22 #) I top that off with probiotic paste, slide in behind her tongue and push the plunger and quickly follow up with a drench of water to help wash it all down. 
I agree with going slow on her feed...allowing her to adapt. Daily probiotics won't hurt either. Get her rumen flora in good health helps digestion of nutrients. 
Yes..Def want the buck to have his own place. 

Best wishes


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice. ☝


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Thank you all for your advice! I didnt know how much i didnt know about caring for goats until i got goats. Thank you for your support and not thrashing me for what i am doing wrong but helping me to be better. Thank you!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What cattle minerals do you have locally?


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

ksalvagno said:


> What cattle minerals do you have locally?


Mineral blocks, idk what the composition of them are... theres a 50# bag of se-90 trace mineralized salt with Selenium by American Stockman. I figured id get that, and a salt block... something has got to be better than nothing...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. Don't get it. Do you have Purina Wind & Rain cattle mineral? You need a good loose mineral.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

The


ksalvagno said:


> No. Don't get it. Do you have Purina Wind & Rain cattle mineral? You need a good loose mineral.


 The Se90 is loose... im headed into town after lunch to see what they have for loose mineral. my local feed store isnt a mainstream branch... mom and pop farm and ranch feed and supply kinda place.
But maybe they have purina. Thanks again


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sea 90 is awesome salt source. My goats love it but it's not a full mineral source. You will need a good goat or cow mineral. Loose is needed since goats can't get what they need from blocks.
Mom and pop places are awesome! Maybe they can order goodies for you.
Many of us started goats not knowing what we were doing. I got my first goat at a flea market lol. Didn't even know her breed back then...you are in the right place to learn more...read past posts on subjects you are interested in knowing more...ask lots of questions..we love questions. You may get many different answers but will find we are all pretty respectful to each others opinions and different ways of handling our own farms.
For now
Quality loose minerals, the hay/alfalfa blend and oats are a perfect start. If you can grab Back oil Sunflower seed to add to the oats at a ratio of 6:1. Will add good fats and other goodies. BOSS ( black oil sunflower seed) is pricy but you are only giving a small amount. So if you feed 6 cups oats..add one cup BOSS. We mix up a large batch in an old chest freezer..6 bags of oats and one hand of BOSS. Do what works for you.

Best wishes


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

So im back from the feed store, i got whole wheat, barley and oats gonna do a 1part each in a bin... and got black oil sunflower seed to mix in a 6:1 ratio happybleats reccomended, and i got beet pulp (dont know how much to add). Also got a loose cow mineral... except when i offloaded it it turned out to be sheep mineral... 74mile round trip and they loaded the wrong mineral bag!! Oh well ill be in town tomorrow anyways. I got ivermectin dewormer, a hay feed net, a biggerr water bin, and grain/mineral feeder bowl. Oi,


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Let me grab you a recipe blend ratio for what you got. Hold on


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> Let me grab you a recipe blend ratio for what you got. Hold on


Thank you so much!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have not used wheat...but for the others I have mixed as follows..
3 parts oats,
3 parts barley
1 part BOSS.
I fed one part mix to 3 parts alfalfa. 
I think you should be able to add one part beet pulp easy enough. 
Hopefully others have used the wheat.

It's a long way to go back for the correct minera but you will be glad you did as sheep mineral won't meet the copper need for goats. 

Best wishes


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

As always..make food changes slowly ...don't rush as their rumen needs to adapt and build proper bacteria for breaking down foods.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

The cow mineral i was supposed to get is American Stockman big 6 trace mineral... is that any good?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I have not heard of that. Maybe @Jessica84 or @ksalvagno has?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Look close at the ingredients. A quick search shows its a salt mineral. I may be looking at the wrong one but what you want is a loose mineral. Something like sweet lix meat maker or Wind and rain to name a few...look those up and read the labels to get an idea of what you are looking for.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

__





50# TRACE MINERAL BAG BIG 6 | Western Ranch Supply







westernranchsupply.com


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

I dont think the feed place knows what loose mineral means... i told them what i need and the owner said this would work. Guess im buying off Amazon.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Just ordered mana pro goat mineral off amazon be here in a week


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## jlLeslie (12 mo ago)

Oh, nice! I wish I could find a place that sells individual grains. I’m going to try ordering through my in-laws food co-op, it’s a bit more expensive but I can get it in bulk so it’ll last a long time.
Please note that ivermectin has a really long milk withdrawal, it’s a great dewormer but if your going to drink the milk wait at least 30days, if it’s the injectable kind.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get your money back on the cow mineral. But post the tag on the sheep mineral. If the only bad thing is low copper, you can supplement copper.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..that looks like salt with trace minerals..much like sea 90.

Yes..ivomec does have a long milk withdraw. 40 days injected and 9 days of given orally. But with her giving so little right now...shouldnt be a big deal while you work to boost her health and milk productivity


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## Vern (9 mo ago)




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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Vern said:


> View attachment 227572


@ksalvagno


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

The salt content is extremely high in those minerals, and it lacks several of the minerals a goat would need.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

NigerianNewbie said:


> The salt content is extremely high in those minerals, and it lacks several of the minerals a goat would need.


So i need to return that as well. Thanks for your input!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. Definitely return that.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Will do. Ive got mana pro and ultracruz copper bolus on the way.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Just finished today 3rd and last milking... so this morning was a full cup and lunch was half a cup and this evening was a little over 3/4cup! Shes producing more on average. I cant wait to see what her production will be once she is healthy and matured a bit. So exciting! Well i think so. Lol. Thank you all for all you advice and comments helping me through this sink or swim situation. Blessings on yall!!


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> I have not used wheat...but for the others I have mixed as follows..
> 3 parts oats,
> 3 parts barley
> 1 part BOSS.
> ...


So we mixed this recipe up earlier this afternoon and fed it to the goats (we added the wheat in as 1 part)... holy smokes im not sure they tasted it they ate it so fast! We are starting slow with ½ cup per each and going to increase gradually over the course of a week or 2... until we reach full serving of... idk whats a full serving?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If the buck is under condition, the feed won't hurt him to help get his weight up. Bucks only usually need extra calories while in rut since that takes alot out of them. 
Milkers we feed year round.
I would estimate about 3% body weight in feed and then adjust as they need it. For ex: if the doe begins producing 1/2 gallon of milk but struggle to keep weight on, then increase a bit until her weight is healthy. Always make those increases slowly so not to cause scours or acidosis. 
Once the bucks weight is healthy, you can decrease his feed or slowly eliminated it all together. The hay and alfalfa blend should be plenty to keep him at a good weight. Some do Like to keep their bucks on a little grain even off season just to keep them happy. Just don't want him to get too fat. 
Feeding is individual for each goat. Some need more while others do well on less. You will fund what yours need. 

Best wishes


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Thank you for that! My buck is a bit under weight by my estimate ill post a pic of him on another thread. I almost got a pint from this mornings milking! She getting there! Going to administer the dewormer today... hope i get that right... all they had at the feed store was equimax (ivermectin 1.87% and praziquantel 14.03%).








Not sure how to serve it up and not OD her and him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

First off..ivomec has a good safety margin..😉
Horse paste is 3 times the dose..so if she weighs 100 pounds..set the dial for 300 pounds. You can always go a bit more safely to make dosing easier..like set for 440 if she needs for 300 won't hurt. Make sure the dial is locked before dosing.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Some will divvy the dose into another syringe..then dose from there.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> First off..ivomec has a good safety margin..😉
> Horse paste is 3 times the dose..so if she weighs 100 pounds..set the dial for 300 pounds. You can always go a bit more safely to make dosing easier..like set for 440 if she needs for 300 won't hurt. Make sure the dial is locked before dosing.


Thank you! We estimate her weight at 100#... i dont yet have a scale to know exactly but it sounds like i cant OD her... phew! _wipes sweat off brow_ lol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

There is a way to estimate weight by taping her.

Estimating the weight of your goat - Common Pastures


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Got em both dosed. Oh thanks for the how to!!


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

How slowly should i be introducing the grain mix? Is half a cup each milking to much? Is half a cup a day to slow? Ive watched each of em poop and they are shiny black pellets... no sign of diarrhea...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

1/2 cup shouldn't be too much. Increase a little every 2 to 3 days. Watch poop, and rumen action..then Increase again until desire daily ration is met. If they get soft poop..back off some..
Give daily probiotics to help flora health


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> 1/2 cup shouldn't be too much. Increase a little every 2 to 3 days. Watch poop, and rumen action..then Increase again until desire daily ration is met. If they get soft poop..back off some..
> Give daily probiotics to help flora health


I appreciate all the info you have given thus far, its invaluable! 

About probiotics... ive read a bit and i could use a wide range of things to help the health of her flora? Dont know if i said that right, i was wondering, can i make goat milk yogurt with the milk i would otherwise be dumping due to the deworming? And then feed that yogurt back to the goats for the probiotics? 
My wallet is stretched pretty thin between the goats and my homestead... you never know how much something will cost until you spend it... 
Im just trying to use what is available and think outside the box. Thanks in advance.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You can give them yogurt.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> You can give them yogurt.


Can i feed her yogurt that i make from her milk even though ive dosed her with ivermectin? Instead of dumping the milk during the withdraw period?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes sir...that will be fine.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Thank 


happybleats said:


> Yes sir...that will be fine.


Thank you Ma'am!!


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Well... im still waiting on minerals, but we are up to ½cup at mornin milkin and evenin milkin...1 cup total and between that, and good grass/alfalfa hay and the stress of travel wearin off my sables are looking alot better. The dewormer threw em for a loop... tired and laying down alot the first day, messed up poop today, but energy levels back to normal... They are getting a luster in their coat, its a richer kinda sheen... still duller than they aught to be but better. And my doe is hilarious, she knows when its milking time and yells at me when she thinks im late. Lol. She milked just over 2 pints today.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

We are getting a Saanan ff doe and kid buck/doe twins!! Pickup on the 2nd!! So excited!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Congratulations!! Kids are fun! Playful.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

That is exciting! Can’t wait to see them!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How exciting.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

The buck is showing sable color... so... mixed herd. But we arnt gonna show em. Just milk and eat... he will be registered in the purebred sable herd book as the saanan does are registered. So as we breed em we can work at pulling out the saanan genes or sable genes as we want.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

Greetings, my saanan ff doe (Mrs Doubtfire) has milk in her udder, but its not dropping but a little bit at a time. The twins Dave and Olive are 2 weeks old and are hounding Miss D. Pretty often. They have energy and are very playful and seem healthy, they have started grazing grass and anything they can nibble. I was able to milk her when i first got her so i could bottle feed once a day. But the kids got sick and now that they are better she doesnt seem to produce enough... I was milking while they were off momma for a couple days. Advice? Ideas?
TIA


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Is her udder hard, any heat or lumps?


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> Is her udder hard, any heat or lumps?


There seems to be some lumps, smaller, no heat, the udder isnt hard but for the very core above the teat...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Try hot compresses. Not too hot your hands can't stand it..but pretty warm..dip a rag in the water..ring it out and then hold the towel over her udder. While holding it..knead and massage the udder...milk out. Repeat. Could be sure a bit plugged up or congested. This should help break things up.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Milk production depends on genetics, demand , health and input ( feed). How many times a day did you milk her when the kids were off? How much did she priduce? Have you run a fecal? What ard you feeding her and what kind of minerals?


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

goatblessings said:


> Milk production depends on genetics, demand , health and input ( feed). How many times a day did you milk her when the kids were off? How much did she priduce? Have you run a fecal? What ard you feeding her and what kind of minerals?


She is purebred Saanan, whos lineage is adorned in prize rinbons. She is nursing twins, I milk my does 3x a day, yes I milked while they were off. She was producing 1/2-3/4 gal a day. I give free choice manna pro loose mineral and sodium bicarbonate. I have grass/alfalfa hay mix 3rd cutting. I feed a mix grain and beet pulp after every milking. I have not run a fecal. She isnt showing any health issues. Im about to do some hoof care so ill update if i find hoof rot. If i missed anything please ask away.


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## Vern (9 mo ago)

happybleats said:


> Try hot compresses. Not too hot your hands can't stand it..but pretty warm..dip a rag in the water..ring it out and then hold the towel over her udder. While holding it..knead and massage the udder...milk out. Repeat. Could be sure a bit plugged up or congested. This should help break things up.


So there is 1 or 2 clogged ducts that i havnt been able to break up, but her udder definitely is softer through out than it was. Im going to try again after lunch and i move the tractors.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Can take several days to break everything up. Good job!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Also i would remove baking soda as free choice. Give only as needed. Goats make their own bicarbonate while chewing their cud. You dont want the body to stop doing that if the body senses ita no longer needed. It can also interfere with some medication, including Ammonium chloride which helps prevent urinary calculi. It can contribute to UC as well. So good stuff..but only as needed 😉


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.


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