# Mom won't milk, fights kids--help!



## owdouglas (Mar 26, 2013)

So, we just bought a 7yr old mamma Nubian goat w/3 kids, now 3 weeks old. She's kicking the kids away and fights us even harder when we try to milk her. Her udder's BLOATED. The kids are eating some grain and hay okay, but is it enough? They didn't care for the mamma's milk we tried to bottle feed (but we're rookies). 

Is it okay to let her naturally dry off? Will that hurt her?
Do the kids need more nutrients than nature (ie milk, supplement, something)?

Just feeling stupid.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm guessing mom is having problems adjusting to her new surroundings. She does need to be milked out. Keep working with the babies to bottle feed. Three weeks old is way to young to be weaned. They should be getting bottles till at least 8 weeks old and many go to 12 weeks.

It may take 2 people to milk her but you really need to milk her out. She is primed for mastitis.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

If they are only three weeks old they are not ready to be weaned. Do yu know if the momma fought them before? It could be they didn't nurse for a while and then the momma's udder got to big for them to nurse and the longer it went un-nursed, the more painful it would get. 

I had twins last year, and they started only drinking from one teat, the other got engorged and swollen, then the babies couldn't drink from it because it was to low to the ground. I just milked that side out and the babies were able and willing to drink from it again.

If that doesn't work, you could hold the mom still (I know it is hard when they don't want to!!) to let the kids nurse, if it still doesn't work, you should start supplementing I guess. I've never had to do that, so I don't know when you need to do that.


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## owdouglas (Mar 26, 2013)

*Thanks--hope it's not too late...*



ksalvagno said:


> I'm guessing mom is having problems adjusting to her new surroundings. She does need to be milked out. Keep working with the babies to bottle feed. Three weeks old is way to young to be weaned. They should be getting bottles till at least 8 weeks old and many go to 12 weeks.
> 
> It may take 2 people to milk her but you really need to milk her out. She is primed for mastitis.


I have bruises from this goat, but we'll try again. I don't know what mastitis looks like, and I hope she doesn't have it already. I'm sure it hurts to be that engorged and tugged on by beginners like us.

Thanks for the input, so promptly. It's good to know this forum is active and so very helpful.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Has she ever been milked by someone before? Hopefully she has. It is very hard for a beginner. I bought a seasoned milker and still had a hard time because she wasn't used to me. It took both of us a while to get used to each other and me to understand when an udder was empty.

Is there an experienced milker who could come over and help you?


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## owdouglas (Mar 26, 2013)

*Just my situation, exactly*



Tayet said:


> If they are only three weeks old they are not ready to be weaned. Do yu know if the momma fought them before? It could be they didn't nurse for a while and then the momma's udder got to big for them to nurse and the longer it went un-nursed, the more painful it would get.
> 
> I had twins last year, and they started only drinking from one teat, the other got engorged and swollen, then the babies couldn't drink from it because it was to low to the ground. I just milked that side out and the babies were able and willing to drink from it again.
> 
> If that doesn't work, you could hold the mom still (I know it is hard when they don't want to!!) to let the kids nurse, if it still doesn't work, you should start supplementing I guess. I've never had to do that, so I don't know when you need to do that.


Yep, she has one droopy teat that is the problem one. She kicks kids away on both sides now, but maybe because she's in pain (?). I built a solid milking stand out of 2x4's and such, and it took that, my wife and two children to really get her under control. (I have lots of bruises, too).

We last milked her Sunday b/c I was working last night late. I know 12 hrs is the standard for milking intervals, but my wife can't handle this by herself in the AM....really wishing she'd just go dry or something. Ugh.

Any insight always welcome!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She is too early in her lactation to dry up. Dairy goats are much different than meat goats. She is now in pain and that is why she won't let the kids nurse. 

Whoever sold you this doe should have been more helpful and should have known that there might be a problem with adjusting to new surroundings and be ready to help you if needed. 

Can you call the breeder you got her from and see if they will come over and help you?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Put her on the stantion. Hobble her above the hocks and tie her hind legs back to something. Hold a board behind her udder in the way of her feet. Then let the kids nurse. This can be done by one person. 
Are you giving her grain on the stantion?
I would suspect that these are not this does kids or that she already has a painful udder.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

If you squeeze just above the hock (the back knee!) she can't kick on that side! That is the purpose of hobbles- to prevent the legs from 
kicking- I agree with ksalvagno, get someone experienced to get her milked out! Good luck!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok, first off..dont feel stupid...its all a learning experience and we have all been there....so its been said..she needs to be milked out...and perhaps the pain in her udder is why she is not allowing her kids to nurse or as goathiker said..they may not be her kids...are they does or bucks?..
for the kids...its not the milk they dont like..its the nipple...they want mom...keep working with patients..once they realize food will come from the bottle you would be surprised how fast they will drink...some will hook on faster than others...just keep at it..I lay the baby over my lap..front legs out front..back legs tucked..slip the nipple in the mouth from the side and move it to the front..I hold the chin and lift the head slightly...allow the milk to drip...being sure they swallow...some will beginto suck like crazy..other will allow it to drip forever lol...some have suggested allowing them suck on your finger first then slip the nipple in.. 

For mom...if you dont have a table tie her to a post or tree..once you have her secure now I know this sounds crazy..but sing or hum to her as you brush her....be gentle...as she begins to relax move you hand down her back..to her hip and down her thigh..dont just grab the teat  touch her udder....it might take a while..but once you have her calm enough..even if she is not happy with you milking her...keep humming...place a pail upside down under her chest area so she cant lay down...start milking the hardest side...once she feels relief she may calm down and allow you to milk her out...sounds easy..its not..and you will most likely get milk kicked on you..just keep milking, be more stubborn than the goat lol.. good luck

Also as long as she is not hurting the kids..I would keep them with her...with relief onth eudder she might allow then to nurse


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## owdouglas (Mar 26, 2013)

*Coping with mom -- update*

Well, thanks again, all...I took the advice to try putting her doelings on her when I had her tied to the milking stand, and though she kicked a bit, it eventually worked for all three kids.

I don't have/know much about hobbles, but I did hold her upper back leg tightly and she did not kick.

I am encouraged. We got her pressure relieved last night to the point neither teat had any more to offer. Now it's just getting her up on the stand that's hard. She's fighting that, but hopefully since we give her grain up there (and only then) maybe she's going to start looking forward to that reward and go up there more willingly eventually.

Thanks again!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good news...: ) great job.


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## ahead-by-a-hare (Jan 6, 2013)

You could reward her with something before you let her down. My crew like crackers, bananas, oranges, and apples. Two crackers and a " you are a good girl" goes a long way with my crew. Don't feel bad we all started somewhere.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good work


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