# Raw Milk in Maryland frustration - just a rant



## SandStoneStable Farm (Dec 8, 2010)

So I'm reading about a farm that was raided for passing state lines to sell raw milk to Marylander's, 1 of 10 states where it is illegal to sell or provide "shares" of raw milk. The FDA monitored this one farm for a year and then a sting operation undercover to bring them down?? Because they have nothing better to do with their resources?

Furthermore there are foundations for legal resources for farmers that sell their eggs, milk and meats and are closed down or fined. I find it unbelievable that a farm would need to fight to sell healthy, homegrown product.

I'm all for ensuring consumers are not buying foods from less than sanitary conditions, but there are recalls on foods from commercial food businesses constantly. Seems FDA undercover-ops should be focusing on mass production for their 1 year sting operations, not 1 local farmer selling milk with happy customers and no complaints.

Also, big press release posted on the Weston Price Foundation site 11/1/11 FDA "conceded that it "has never taken, nor does it intend to take, enforcement action against an individual who purchased and transported raw milk across state lines solely for his or her own personal consumption" [www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product-SpecificInformation/MilkSafety/ucm277854.htm]. This statement reverses FDA's prior position in which the agency reserved the option of taking action against individual consumers crossing state lines with raw milk. Federal regulation 21 CFR § 1240.61 prohibits the introduction of raw milk for human consumption into interstate commerce."

So allegedly Marylander's are able to cross state lines to buy milk from PA, but cannot support local farms?
I guess every single person should buy some goats,cows,pigs and chickens if they want fresh milk, meat or eggs... and don't forget plant your own garden!

There, done ranting.


----------



## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Right there with ya!!! :veryangry: :hair: 
There was a record number of murders in the town nearest us this past year. But if I sell raw (or even pasturized) milk I will be busted. Our priorities are pretty messed (and I use that word to stay family friendly) up.
We can only raise animals if we are a *self-sustaining family farm* and as such can only produce for the people who live here.


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

I know this is an older topic, but...

We had a guy stop by last night and he is trying to help us legally be able to sell milk (not that we are currently selling it illegally or anything like that - we are not. Also, notice my wording there "legally" as opposed to "licensed"...  ) We were talking with him about this very situation. Most of this is the FDA being stupid, a small part is stupidity on the farmer's end though. There's a small chance that the case may get thrown out of court, depending on who's handling the proceedings and how involved the local authorities get, similar to what happened in this case: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2823386/posts. They day Mr. Hochstetler was scheduled to go for a hearing, he got a call saying the case had been dropped. That article also brings up a very good point about the 4th amendment protecting against unreasonable search and seizure of a person's home and property. I'd say that an FDA "sting" because a person who was legally selling raw milk in PA happened to have a customer base in DC and Baltimore who came to his farm to pick it up and take it back home is pretty unreasonable.


----------



## Graffogefarms (Oct 11, 2007)

I am finding this very interesting as in a lot of cases it is also illegal to sell raw milk in the EU. I don't know which way we are heading and it can vary from state to state. As mentioned in other posts we are moving back from Ireland to US, in about 18 months, and so far it is looking like MD for work for dh in DC. I am going to have to study a lot more on this . How does it work as far as bartering milk for eggs, etc with friends and family. In some cases do you find it comes down to someone who is disgruntled and out to cause problems? If someone has to cross State lines to legally purchase milk that should be available locally it highlights another thing. Why can't there be specialized licensed and inspected dairies that have the option of offering raw or pasteurized I know - cost is the big issue and getting everyone together. Any thoughts on county or state co-operatives with maybe some centralized processing and packaging for smaller scale producers? Right now - I get goat products in to resell, but can only resell pre-packaged items. Seems these Depts are getting overly stuck with red tape and it is holding a lot of potential producers back that could make a difference in peoples lives by offering them more choices.


----------



## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

In the US the big commercial dairy industry has an enormous lobby. It is at the root of our issues here with milk sales from small places, and raw milk sales as well. No competition is to be tolerated. And they have managed to make the vast majority of people in the country think that raw milk is scary and dangerous. Personally I won't use the stuff from the grocery store. (And it smells bad) I am buying it now because I give milk to the chickens and my supply of milk is down to a tiny precious amount now, so they aren't getting that. It is a really touchy subject. I have pretty much decided if I ever were to want to sell milk it would be pasteurized, it just isn't worth the pain. Not that I could get a permit to even do that.


----------



## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

>>>In the US the big commercial dairy industry has an enormous lobby. It is at the root of our issues here with milk sales from small places, and raw milk sales as well. No competition is to be tolerated. And they have managed to make the vast majority of people in the country think that raw milk is scary and dangerous.<<<

That is it in a nutshell.

My son is always commenting on the $$$$$$worth of milk that goes to the cats, dog and chickens. Goat milk yogurt at the healthfood store is like $12/pint. I make two quarts a week.

I am figuring to cut back to only 2or3 milkers as it is just too expensive to feed so many and have the milk stack up unused. How I wish I could share this wonderful product. I do not even want to make a profit. I would do it just to cover feed costs and to get my own milk for free. But that is where the milk lobby comes in to destroy any and all competition. It is maddening.


----------



## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I was wondering just yesterday.. what I'm going to do with all the milk this year??? We only had 2 in milk last year, and they didn't produce much. Still it was more than we needed! Now i'll have at least 3 - and they are going to be much better milkers... I do give some to my neighbor, and he slips me a 10.00 every so often... ssssshhhhh, dont tell anyone! It would be really nice to be able to sell some though...


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Graffogefarms said:


> I am finding this very interesting as in a lot of cases it is also illegal to sell raw milk in the EU. I don't know which way we are heading and it can vary from state to state. As mentioned in other posts we are moving back from Ireland to US, in about 18 months, and so far it is looking like MD for work for dh in DC. I am going to have to study a lot more on this . How does it work as far as bartering milk for eggs, etc with friends and family. In some cases do you find it comes down to someone who is disgruntled and out to cause problems? If someone has to cross State lines to legally purchase milk that should be available locally it highlights another thing. Why can't there be specialized licensed and inspected dairies that have the option of offering raw or pasteurized I know - cost is the big issue and getting everyone together. Any thoughts on county or state co-operatives with maybe some centralized processing and packaging for smaller scale producers? Right now - I get goat products in to resell, but can only resell pre-packaged items. Seems these Depts are getting overly stuck with red tape and it is holding a lot of potential producers back that could make a difference in peoples lives by offering them more choices.


I'm not sure about the bartering thing, but I know that MD is one of the states that's really funny about raw milk - I'm not sure if you can even get a license to sell it like you can here in PA where they will allow you to pay a bunch of money and get licensed.  I would check into a co-op, that's what we're going to be doing - a private contract type of thing that is still all legal and aboveboard, inspected, tested, etc.

It's sort of ridiculous how much the government controls what we eat. They try to tell us what's safe and what isn't - since when is that ok? And there is this farm not to far from me that is FILTHY dirty. Rats, buildings falling down, recently they had to close a section of the road because the guy's silo was about to fall over. Yet, he raises dairy cows and, because the milk is trucked away and pasteurized, he's fine. Now, of course no one should buy raw milk from a place like that, but still. Gross and I don't even want to think about the fact that before we got goats we drank the brand of milk that he farms for.

It's just really sad to me that most people have no idea where their food comes from, even in my area which is fairly rural and is surrounded by farmland, dairy mostly. The whole fresh, seasonal, local, organic eating trend both amuses and saddens me - it's something that we never should have lost sight of in the first place, in my opinion. I could rant for hours about the evils of the food industry.  :angry: I know that raw milk is a hot button issue, but it never should have become such, IMO.


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

To be perfectly honest, the small goat dairy I farm sat for was less than stellar on the cleanliness side of things. But he was licensed... They were a wonderful family, but if I had maintained my farm the way the daddy did it, I would have bee terrified of being shut down. He sold milk and cheese all over the area - and it often had that goaty off taste that makes people afraid of goat milk.

Now they have shut down due to family issues and I have their last doe. Thanks to sitting for them several times, I manage my goats and my milking TOTALLY differently. My nigerian's milk NEVER tasted off or goaty. I can't wait to see what I get for milk when their old Nubian kids next spring. I bet it tastes great!

Now I just need to look into the laws for Maine. I already have people wanting to buy raw milk AND cheese - and I've never sought out a single customer! I do not want to break the law, but with only 2 milkers, I'm not sure I want to jump through all the hoops to become a licensed raw dairy.


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

According to RealMilk.com, Maine is pretty lenient. "Raw milk sales are legal on the farm and in retail stores. Raw milk and raw milk products must have a label on the product containing the words "not pasteurized." Farmers do not have to obtain permit to sell raw milk if their sales are only on the farm and they do not advertise." More here: http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-2.html#me


----------



## SandStoneStable Farm (Dec 8, 2010)

GraffogeFarms that's neat that you plan to come to the area... don't plan on selling in Maryland though, or herd shares. 
There is only 1 licensed diary goat farm for cheese only - at least that I can find or that is listed on rawmilk . com.
VA can sell shares I believe... and still commute to DC 

And I guess they are still pressing charges on the PA farmer (sold milk to Marylanders across state lines) that they said they were going to drop charges on. So crossing state lines will still be illegal even though the FDA was quoted as saying they wont. Apparently they meant they wont fine the people that buy it, just the people that sell it then?

Your right Linz a hot button that we can't really do anything about. It should be your right to buy and ingest whatever food product you choose... seems like we should be wasting our government resources on other things.


----------



## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

The info on rawmilk.com is not always accurate also. So be sure to find out what the laws are wherever you are from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Rawmilk.com says you can sell raw milk in NM with a permit, but no one in the state has one. It is very hard to get one and expensive, and easy to lose. Don't take anything for granted.


----------



## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Here's what I don't understand about the Allyger case - HE wasn't transporting the milk across state lines - his customers were. He is part of a private co-op type of thing, and in PA, supposedly if you have a private contract/co-op/herdshare type of thing, as long as you have a good lawyer do the paperwork for you, it is out of the PADA/USDA/FDA's jurisdiction. Even though he knew the milk was going to end up in MD/DC, he didn't take it there, and I don't see how he has any responsibility as to what his customers do with the milk after they buy it, as long as he is legal to sell it. :whatgoat: 

A few years ago, there was a Mennonite farmer in the area who had a raw milk license from the state/gov't, but decided to drop it standing on the grounds that he had the right to sell anything produced on his farm, saying it was just the same as if he grew tomatoes in his garden and sold them at a roadside stand, and something about 51% of the labor being done on the farm, can't remember all of it, but it was good, sound reasoning. Anyway, authorities came and confiscated thousands of dollars worth of his equipment, etc., but he didn't back down and as far as I know, they've not bothered him for a year. 

It's just such a shame that it has to be such a fight.


----------

