# Poit, Due This Week



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

EDIT: New photos further on in the thread and an update. 6-10-11

Long story, stick with me! Lol.

This is my last doe of the year to kid, and the one I am most nervous about. I bought a doeling in October and the breeders gave Poit to me along with the doeling, for free (with her papers and all.) They said she was pet-quality only and was unsuitable for breeding or showing. They had bred her once. They missed the birth and found twins at her side, one dead and one alive. The living doe kid died at only four months old from aspiration pneumonia. They said she had acted "off" and less lively than the other kids from day one and that she had always seemed to have some trouble drinking (they pulled and bottle fed all their kids immediately.) The vet performed an autopsy and found that the kid was also suffering from white muscle disease (caused by selenium deficiency.) The disease caused her to aspirate milk due to muscle weakness.

The breeders claimed to have given Poit a BoSe shot before breeding her in the fall, and one about a month before her kids were born. They had also given the doe kid a BoSe shot as a newborn. Knowing this, the vet decided that Poit was defective and there must be something wrong with her reproductive tract in which the kids were not properly supplied nutritionally in the womb. She advised them to never breed her again.

Now I thought this all sounded hugely fishy. First of all, if the doe was properly given her BoSe shots and the kid was born alive and functioning I don't think that the kid somehow developed white muscle in the womb. Secondly, if they gave the BoSe shot to the kid correctly I don't see the kid having a deficiency issue as a newborn.

On top of that, Poit is not show quality due to her crooked legs. Her overall build is gorgeous. She would do very well in the ring if I could fix her legs. She toes out very badly behind. When I got her, she hocked in severely to the point her hocks were touching, she waddled like a penguin, and she couldn't jump well. Her weak legs combined with a kid that succumbed to white muscle made me question their vet's ideas and I suspected their herd was malnutrition-ed (not to mention the fact that the doeling I got with Poit was severely stunted.) So I started supplementing Poit with monthly doses of Sel/Vit E gel as well as some vitamin gel. I also made sure she had free access to fresh minerals at all times (Purina). There was definite improvement in her legs. She doesn't waddle much anymore and jumps very well. Her hocks still turn in very slightly, but her legs are mostly straight from the hock up. Yet her toes still turn out quite badly. Her parents and grand-parents have straight legs...If her legs are not a fluke and are related to her nutrition they won't pass to her kids. Yet she was born and raised there, and if she grew up and developed with a deficiency I imagine her legs are pretty stuck like that.

In any case, now that I've droned on forever....There is a part of me that still worries about something being wrong with her reproductive tract and sickly kids resulting. I mean, if the kid was given a BoSe shot at birth would it have enough time to develop a deficiency at only four months old without something being genetically wrong with it that kept it's body from properly using selenium and/or Vit. E? So I'm very nervous about these babies. Everyone I've talked to agrees that everything points violently to a selenium deficiency (or Vit. E) in their herd and that she should be able to produce healthy kids for me, so we shall see.

She is getting as much fresh, high quality grass hay as she wants as well as Purina Goat Chow and free choice alfalfa pellets. I was questioning whether or not she was pregnant as she isn't big at all, but she is a very deep, capacious doe so I can see her hiding kids in there. I can feel them kicking now and she has been developing an udder for a week to a week and a half. Her pooch is still so tiny...a pooch test on her is ridiculous. Her first cover would make her due in a week....but I honestly believe she is due on her second cover. That or she is either going to have a disappointing udder or have a huge increase in size very suddenly. OR she might just have a single so her body doesn't feel the need to produce much. I'm thinking she can easily hide twins, her belly is hanging low and I believe she might carry deep rather than wide. I'll have recent pictures tomorrow, but for now here are some photos of her the week she arrived:










Not the best picture. Lol. She was also quite fat when I got her, so I wonder if her obesity had anything to do with her kids problems.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

I think all the things you mentioned about her prior nutrition and condition are a indicator of the root of the problem kidding. Hopefully she will have a easy kidding for you and healthy baby or babies.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

I have to agree.... :thumb:

Nice doe by the way.......... :hi5:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

I'll think she'll do great. :thumb: It sounds like she wasn't very well taken care of at her previous home and the previous owner's story sounds pretty unlikely. Now that she's on the right track and being cared for properly...I bet she'll be just fine. :hi5:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

Alrighty, so I promised some new photos. Her ligs are very strong and her udder isn't developing further. I'm really thinking she caught the second time around, so would be due mid-June and this thread is way early. Lol.










This is her today, 5/14. She is carrying really low, but then her body is pretty dang deep to begin with. That is Sherry's kid. She can slip between the two pens and mom is SO boring. Poit is so much more fun to jump on and Poit loves her.










You can see how she toes out. A lot better than when I got her though. The hocks were literally touching. You can see her tiny udder peeking out.

Come on Poit, give me beautiful, healthy twin doelings with perfect legs!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

She is very pretty! It is wonderful that you were able to help her out so much! :thumb:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

She looks like a different goat.

Jan


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Last Doe of the Year- Poit*

Going by the looks of her udder...she likely did settle with the 2nd breeding....very pretty girl too!
She has come a long way, I remember you posting pics of her when you first got her, you've done a great job helping her recover.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

So obviously Poit took her second cover. Lol. She is due anytime in the next week and a half or so, as she was in with the buck for a week. She is enormous! Her udder is coming in well, although the teats are tiny and point way out...which is disappointing. I'm hoping when she fills tight they at least point normally. I really want to be able to keep her with her general build and her bloodlines, but she has to produce kids with good legs and have a show-worthy udder. Although there definitely is a market here for pet quality kids, especially with flashy colors.




























I shaved her a few days ago. We skipped spring. Went from rainy and cold to hot. I couldn't get a photo of her udder without her moving, so this is her in mid-turn. Has a lot more filling to do I think and her ligs are going back and forth between really strong and pretty soft. She has some plug coming out now and then.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

She is big! Hope she has nice kids for you.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

She sure has improved since you got her. :thumb: Keep us posted! I'm going to say she's got twins hiding in there!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

As enormous as she is I'm guessing triplets, but she has always been a big girl. Her teats are much larger this evening! She seems to have filled more as well, her bag is now down to her hocks and the nipples aren't sticking out quite as bad. Ligs still strong and udder is so large and sack-like that it feels like it will need a ton of milk to fill it tight, so here is to a gorgeous udder! Lol.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

OH MY GOD KID! Lol. Still holding out big time. Her udder is looking really close, its 3x as big as before but not tight, teats looking better position-wise and bigger as well. Kids still kicking really hard so they seem to be doing good. Gah! Lol.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She really looks to have 3 in there!! What a different a clip job makes too...she looks like a totally different goat!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Yeah, she is as big as a house. The poor thing barely moves because she is so heavy. I swear her belly nearly drags on the ground. I'm really hoping for no more than triplets, especially since I'm worried about what happened with her kids with her breeder. Not that I don't have a ton of milk right now if I need to supplement anyone.Today is overcast and it might storm...so she'll probably do it in the dead of night in a gale wind. Isn't that one of the laws of animal husbandry? Lol.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Can't wait to see what ya get!!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Any advancement from her?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

She is stubbornly holding on. Her ligaments got really low last night so I got up several times to check on her. She has had discharge off and on today, looks like the last little bits of plug. Her ligaments are still there as of five minutes ago, just barely able to feel them. Udder isn't tight but is pretty large. She attacked her grain when I put it down but stopped after a few bites and left it, and she always gobbles her food. So her appetite is pretty gone. Hoping for tomorrow morning when its still cool but I have light. I'm really worried about her having quads or something in there. I've only dealt with quads once and its exhausting!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I hope she waits for the morning light and has just the right number of healthy babies in there for you! :wink:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks! I'm glad she has fans!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Still no kids. I didn't write the breeding date down the second time around and now I'm kicking myself. I swore that I put her in with him the 16th of June, and she was there with him for a week. She wouldn't stand for him that first day, so she could have stood the last few days which would put her at just now due or just a day or so past due. Not sure. She had really low ligs the past two evenings so I checked her at midnight before going to bed and then woke up at 3 A.M. to check her at which point each night her ligs were firmer and I just slept until 6:30 and checked her again. She decided to eat the grain she left earlier by the middle of the night.

She hasn't been strutted at all at this point and her ligs haven't been totally gone, so I just think she is in the final stretch where the ligs bounce back and forth. Normally I wouldn't be checking in the night until I knew ligs were totally gone...but I'm paranoid since my old doe I bought this spring kidded in the night after still having middle of the road ligs and only half an udder. So I think I'm just wigging myself out and being over watchful at this point. Ligs pretty tight tonight so I doubt she'll go.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

firelight27 said:


> I swore that I put her in with him the 16th of June, and she was there with him for a week. She wouldn't stand for him that first day, so she could have stood the last few days which would put her at just now due or just a day or so past due.


 :wink: Must have been a different date otherwise she has been pregnant for a year or just a few days.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Lol. I was thinking of this month. I meant January.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I hope she doesn't keep you guessing too much longer!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

ACK! Ligs tight as ever all day today, just no progress in any direction. Maybe she is waiting for this weekend. Its shot up really hot this weekend, into the 90s after hanging out in the low 70s. Forecast is back down to mid-70s tomorrow and through the weekend. Sometimes I think animals have a sixth sense for this sort of thing, so maybe she is just waiting for a more comfortable temperature.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Gar! So I sat down and really tried to figure out my math. I'm nearly positive I put Poit in with the buck the 16th-18th of January by going back and looking at my blog posts, etc. Thinking it was the 18th. For some reason I really got messed up on my 150 day count. She didn't stand for him the first day and I left her for a week. So say she got bred at the end of that time period, she would only be a few days overdue at this point, but definitely overdue. She is a little chunky in back, so when her ligs sag its hard to find them. Her udder is pretty tight tonight, babies are still kicking hard. She is as big as a house. I'm kind of scared just because of her size! Those photos I posted last ain't got nothing on what she looks like now!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well I hope that she has those healthy babies for you soon.


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Nigi's will stick pretty close to the 145 day schedule, the 150 is typically for large breed goats... so she probably got bred a bit later... especially if you are still feeling the kids kicking so much (Which is awesome news & proves that she can really make healthy babies in there! :thumb: ). They tend to really settle down & get repositioned the last day or two. 
I'm sure she'll do just fine & I'm hoping for happy healthy babies for you :greengrin: 
All my best wishes,


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

been checking this post--can't wait to read you have cute, healthy babies!!

about what week can you begin to feel them kick? I have a doe about 2 months from kidding. Sometimes I "think" I feel the babies but not sure


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Anything yet? How is she doing?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Nada. But her ligaments have stayed really soft all night and into the morning. It seems to me like they are probably done bounding back, but they are not quite gone and her udder is not quite tight. I'm hoping she goes this weekend or else I'll rip my hair out! Lol. Of course its my fault for not keeping a better record of her breeding dates and confusing myself.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

hoping she kids for you soon! I guess you and I will be bald together soon from ripping our hair out over these does! LOL


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Ha ha, I feel ya Jess. This is the first one I've freaked out about this year. My other does I had exact due dates on because I was smart and wrote them down! Lol. Plus they were covered by hand and not left with the buck, but this doe was hard to catch in heat and I needed her bred that month so I just threw her in with him and hoped for the best. Its hot enough as it is, I really didn't want her pregnant in July (it regularly hits 110 the middle of that month here.) 

I'll be looking for photos of your babies when they come! Mine will probably kid this evening when I'm trying to cook for a family BBQ at my dad's place. Le sigh.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

No kids. Gah! Now I'm double guessing myself on how long I even left her with the buck. I thought it was a week. Was it? Was it two weeks? Am I anywhere near the correct date? I despise not knowing due dates, yet its my own fault.

Her ligs did bounce back. They were soft all day the day before yesterday, all night and all morning yesterday, just to firm up yesterday evening. Her udder even seemed to shrink a little, so at least I slept through the night without worrying I'd miss it. Ligs tight this morning as of 11 A.M., but one side of her udder is almost twice the size of the other and the teat seems filled, so maybe she is tightening up for me and will lose her ligs this evening. One can only hope.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Still nada. Her udder is even now, both sides larger. I guess she is just going to give me a super awesome udder when she freshens. Ligs have been really strong all day, but super soft tonight, nearly gone. Its much easier to feel them now, I'm not having to wade through her fatty rump so thats a good sign her entire back end is softening. Poor thing was panting all day and it wasn't even hot. There is a thunderstorm rolling in. I'd would say that maybe she'll have them tonight in the storm, but her udder is no where near tight enough IMO and I can still barely feel those ligs, so I doubt tonight is a go. I must have left her in with the buck longer than I remember!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

OH PLEASE KID! Lol. I must have gotten the breeding dates really wrong..... I swore it was that date, left them for a week. But maybe I left them for more than that...thats all I can think of. Her ligs get so soft I can barely feel them, her udder has been huge for a couple of weeks but not tight. I'm going insane! Lol. Ligs haven't been totally gone once, but so very soft a few times that I've got up in the night. Just freaking go already! Looking at 4th of July babies at this point I think, but she is sending me for a loop, she isn't following the rules at all. Need to think of firework names. I'm not going to call any Firework or Firecracker, but maybe some brand names for some of the fireworks at the stands, some can be really neat.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She is really dragging this out!!! I really feel for you!


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## RowdyKidz (Apr 2, 2009)

Hmm... While we are waiting... How bout some pictures? :greengrin: 
I had a doe that honestly went over day 160! I was about to squeeze em out! I know how ya feel! :hair:


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## Bellafire Farm (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh darn...I (of course thanks to my Mr. Fireworks boy) had a LIST of Fireworks related names for all his future kids... CANT FIND IT, of course! Grrr... Would have loved to share it w/you...

Sparkles and Sparkler were on it I remember
Morning Glory (that's the basic brand of Sparklers)
Roman Candle
Party Popper
Bottle Rocket


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I love the firework names!! We may need some of them ourselves!!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Double Post...Oops


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I really like Morning Glory for a doe. I'll have to put that one down on a list. I wonder what the most horribly illegal firework is? Or the biggest one an individual can legally buy (in one of the states where you can buy just about anything.) I'd love to name one after something super impressive. Actually, what would really be neat would be Chinese names that have to do with ancient fireworks. 

Ligaments are so gone I can barely find them. They have been very low before, but at that time I think it was hard to find them through her fatty butt. Now the fat has all fallen away as everything has sunk, and they are lower than they have ever been. Her udder is just about there. Come on this weekend!


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

weeeellllllll???????????? ray:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Ha ha.. Nope. Udder is massive, but not quite fully tight. Ligs are still super low. Every time she stands up she both poos and pees without fail. Poor thing! At least if she has a million kids in there she has a big udder to feed them from. Watch her go on the 4th when I want to be up in the mountains simultaneously watching the entire valley's fireworks at once.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

No kids yet, but I suspect very soon. I thought I'd put up some new photos for anyone following her progress. Her udder is quite tight. The right side is larger than the left and it needs to fill up top. Her ligs are pretty much non-existant,




























This third photo shows how much she has dropped over the last day. She is really hanging down there. The kids were moving lazily yesterday and I can't feel them moving today, they feel like they are under her udder, so I suspect they've moved back. This is really steep out her hip for her, but her legs don't look posty.



















The first udder shot shows she isn't filled up top yet. The bottom is tight though. I had to hold her leg open because of how they turn in to get that shot. The next one is her standing naturally, you can see the right side is bigger. Whatcha want to bet it'll be the actual 4th of July when she goes? That would be awesome!


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