# stubborn kids on udder!!!



## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Grrr, I have the most stubborn kids! Both use the dam's left teat to nurse. Obviously the doe is engorged on the right side. I've tried Pam's suggestions of picking one kid and teaching her to use the right. Every session she gets more stubborn and refuses. The doe cooperates fine- I think she's hoping to get some relief! After about 8 unsuccessful attempts to redirect Ziva to the right, as soon as I leave she' s gone to the left and is having a feast, I swear just to spite me. I tried using the buckling and he doesn't cooperate either. I raise meat goats, so milking issues are unknown territory to me. I've been milking out her right teat to give her some relief. Will I have to keep milking her or just give up and hope she dries up on the right side? is she at risk for mastitis?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Have you tried to put tape over the teat they use so they have to nurse from the other side? Some sort of medical tape or I think that they actually make teat tape. Be sure that the kids are still eating and after a few hours maybe you should be able to take the tape off.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Thanks for the idea Logan - I wondered about trying tape. I'll give it a try today and let you know how it goes!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

make sure you milk down the right side a bit so its soft and easy to nurse off of


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Every time that kid goes on the wrong teat...keep putting it on the other...every time you see it.... it takes time...but... as they get a bit bigger..... they will like having a side each to their own...I do agree... that if the teat is large because of being full... I would milk out enough ....to make it more inviting..... I know it is frustrating... it does take work and time.... :thumb:


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

I've been milking her out on that side every time before I put Ziva on it. The taping seems to be helping - somewhat. Ziva is hard-headed!! I'm not able to be out with them all day to watch every nursing session, but I have gone out a few times and woken them up from naps in the barrel, with tape on the "good" teat and let them get frustrated it's not available. Ziva fights me like crazy when I force her on the unused teat, but this last time she finally stayed on and drank for about a minute. I put her back on a few more times and she nibbled a bit, but she's not happy about it. I let Ducky get a belly-full when I untape "his" teat. As hard-headed as Ziva is being about retrained, I'm not sure she'll ever voluntarily switch sides. Good thing I'm on vacation this week!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I really wonder why they arent liking that side. You did test for mastitis? Generally they figure out to use both pretty quick especially with the tape.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

how do I test for mastitis? I milk her to relieve her and the milk seems good, smells sweet and looks clean - in fact the doe turns around and licks the puddle on the ground. The only thing I can think is that last year's twins got separated at different times - I took her buckling off at a couple months when he started getting frisky, and that side of her udder stayed full while she continued to nurse his sister so she was lopsided for a few months. I'm thinking that unused side the buckling left is the side the new kids are ignoring now.


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## Goober (Aug 21, 2009)

Does the preferred side milk more easily? I ask, because I have a doe with two totally different teats...One has a huge orifice,which the kids love, and the other with a small orifice, only used if absolutely necessary, so much easier to just eat from the other side. Might be a possibility with your doe.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

There are mastatsis test strips and cards. I think there is a way to do a homemade test also. Wish I knew and could tell you. Maybe do a search here or hopefully someone who knows will see this.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Mix a few drops of dishwashing liquid into half a cup of lukewarm water. Mix this into half a cup of fresh (still warm) milk. If there is mastitis OR colostrum the mixture will go gooey and thick. If no mastitis/colostrum the mixture will just be watery milk


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

keren said:


> Mix a few drops of dishwashing liquid into half a cup of lukewarm water. Mix this into half a cup of fresh (still warm) milk. If there is mastitis OR colostrum the mixture will go gooey and thick. If no mastitis/colostrum the mixture will just be watery milk


Cool! I'll give this a try (I love the lack of expense involved too!) She had been on injectable penicillin until yesterday for what I presumed was pneumonia, so I'm not sure if that would have prevented mastitis from setting in?



Goober said:


> Does the preferred side milk more easily? I ask, because I have a doe with two totally different teats...One has a huge orifice,which the kids love, and the other with a small orifice, only used if absolutely necessary, so much easier to just eat from the other side. Might be a possibility with your doe.


This thought crossed my mind yesterday as I milked out the unused side - it came out in wide fast streams, and when I put the doeling on there and force her to nurse, she almost seems to get too much like she was choking, so I'm thinking the orifice is much larger than the other side and the milk comes out too fast for their preference.

If a doe has a singleton who only uses one side, it's not a problem on the udder, is it? Can I just let this side dry up if they prefer the left teat as if there would be a singleton on it?


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## Goober (Aug 21, 2009)

I would worry that as the kids grew, the doe may not be able to produce enough from just one side to feed both. Personally, I would keep at it with them, annoying as it is, and, as they get bigger and hungrier, the lightbulb will finally go off and someone realize that it is better to go to the other instead of trying to fight unsuccessfully to get to the preferred side.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2012)

Freeze the milk for when you need it, I like a heavy milker that I can steal C and milk from to freeze for potential bottle kids.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

There may not be much left I can do with this doe - she's really high on my cull list right now. She's become mean, she's too big for me to handle, and it's a constant battle of wills between us and honestly, she's winning. She kicks me when I try and tape her teat, twists my wrist when I hold her by a horn and has almost broken my arm, bruises me, and runs from me now. This is her second assisted delivery for malpresentation (2 for 2) with only 5-1/2 pound kids while on a high-protein custom-mixed grain (a huge Nubian bred to a savannah? I was a bit disappointed with the scrawny little cutie-pies.) I checked her doeling this morning and she has 2 extra teats on one side. If I get rid of the doe, I'll have my herd down to all kiko/kiki X's except for her twins from this season and her daughter from last season, and since we're meat producers, the only sad thing about getting rid of this Nubian is that she is the granddaughter out of my first doe I had on the farm when we started out with 2 does just for brush clearing. I may keep her yearling and give her a try but if she's anything like her mama, well......


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I would worry that as the kids grew, the doe may not be able to produce enough from just one side to feed both. Personally, I would keep at it with them, annoying as it is, and, as they get bigger and hungrier, the lightbulb will finally go off and someone realize that it is better to go to the other instead of trying to fight unsuccessfully to get to the preferred side.


 I so agree.... :thumb:

You have to Remember... goats are smart and she seems to have your number...you are suppose to be the boss of her.... Fight back... :wink:

I wouldn't bother with taping the teat because it is a big hassle... and meanwhile.. the other teat now gets ignored....... but.. if you want to keep taping... do it this way...
Once you catch her.... have a dog collar and a rope..tie her head up snug... so you don't have to hold her and hurt your hand or arm...
Also ...tie her back leg up... the side you will be working from... tie it semi high .. so she cannot kick at you.... If she still fights a bit....with open hand ..smack her on the belly ...just before her udder... tell her "Quit"...

Goats will run from you ...if you are having to do things to them.... that they do not like....put yourself in her hooves....if someone was doing something to you daily... that you didn't like and you seen that person coming towards you ....wouldn't you run as well.... that is normal... :wink: :thumb:

Assisted deliveries can happen,this is just her 2nd kidding...... 
It almost sounds like.. she may not be getting enough minerals...and may be deficient.....as to why she is having smaller babies... 
How did her 1st kids grow? 
And were they small to start as well? 
Did her 1st kids reach their full potential in size? 
If so...she may deliver small kids but... if they have grown correctly.. that is good.....

The teat structure ...if she is able to feed her kids with no issues at adulthood... she will be OK ...especially if ...you are just breeding for meat production...

Tell her who is boss.... :wink: :hug: :hi5: :thumb:


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