# Documented weight versus measurements



## Rex

Given the questions about weigh tapes versus actual weights I thought it might be nice to start documenting the girth and height and length measurements for goats that are actually weighed afterward. If we all contribute we should be able to gather enough good data to create a more accurate weight chart using three measurements instead of one.

*Guidelines:*
*1)* Girth measurement right behind the front leg with the tape pulled snug but not real tight. 
*2)* A total height measurement from level ground to the top of the shoulder.
*3)* Length of the goat from the top of the shoulder to the base of the tail. 
*4)* Actual weight measured on a reasonably accurate scale. 
*5)* Age of the goat.
*6)* Name of the goat

By adding in the age and name of the goat we can keep track of each goat separately when someone posts "updates" for goats who had been measured and weighed previously. Given enough information, we may be able to extrapolate a final weight estimate for goats of various ages based on their measurements at any given time. I don't think that has ever been done before.


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## ryorkies

I thought I would just get out the bathroom scales
and try and get him to stand on it. He does it on a stump.
Maybe I could put the scales on the stump. LOL


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## cryptobrian

ryorkies said:


> I thought I would just get out the bathroom scales
> and try and get him to stand on it.


Heh ... I was thinking of bringing them into the Family room and getting them to balance on the Wii board.

But the bathroom scale appears to actually not be that unreasonable an idea:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/11008872 ... 9645TWgrNm

And here, MotherEarth News describes something similar, but with two scales to provide better stability ... and then just add the figures from the two together.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/do-it-yo ... scale.aspx


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## Bob Jones

Just pick up the goat and stand on the scale yourself ;-)

This kind of thinking is probably what contributed to my bad back in the first place...

I have neither tape nor scale. Since the only time I have high blood pressure is when they put a cuff on me, I figure the only time I am overweight is when I stand on a scale.


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## ali pearson

That's a great idea Rex. I will try to do that with my goats, using the feed store scale. They have offered it to weigh them. Gyro the Boer will certainly hold down the short and fat end of the resulting chart.


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## Nanno

Haha!! Phil tried to pick up Cuzco and stand on the bathroom scale once. Between the terror-stricken eyes, the frantic kicking, and the madly waving horn in Phil's face, we got the idea that our goat doesn't care to be picked up now that he's full-grown. We wisely decided to wait and use the dog scale at the vet's office when we took him in for rabies shots.


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## Rex

Bob Jones said:


> I have neither tape nor scale.


Bob, a real man would turn this into an unquestionable need to buy a laser level and rangefinder.


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## ryorkies

You will need one other measurement. Length.
I suggest. from shoulder blades to base of tail.

Bob, you can use a piece of hay string and a standard tape measure. I also do not own any scales. will have to borrow the neighbors. 

Rad


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## Rex

ryorkies said:


> You will need one other measurement. Length.
> I suggest. from shoulder blades to base of tail.Rad


Great Idea! I added it above.


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## Bob Jones

OK, I picked up a surveyor's transit and pole and a 1000' chain, and electric winch for the bumper of the truck and and engine hoist for the back of the truck. Now I just need a pool. I can fill the pool to the brim, lower the goat into it, and when I pull him out, measure how far the water dropped and calculate the volume of water to get the weight of the goat.

With the GPS unit, transit and pole I can get dimensions from anywhere in the world. And the surveyors chain should go around his chest ok. 

Laser level and range finder,ha.. sissy stuff. ;-) besides, I already have them, but can'tfind them in the garage.


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## ryorkies

Bob Jones said:


> OK, I picked up a surveyor's transit and pole and a 1000' chain, and electric winch for the bumper of the truck and and engine hoist for the back of the truck. Now I just need a pool. I can fill the pool to the brim, lower the goat into it, and when I pull him out, measure how far the water dropped and calculate the volume of water to get the weight of the goat.
> 
> With the GPS unit, transit and pole I can get dimensions from anywhere in the world. And the surveyors chain should go around his chest ok.
> 
> Laser level and range finder,ha.. sissy stuff. ;-) besides, I already have them, but can'tfind them in the garage.


And yet you don't have a "tape measure"!


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## Bob Jones

Actually I probably have a dozen of them buried in the garage. If I could find them I wouldn't have an excuse for more stuff.

It's a man thing. You have already explained why you can't possibly understand ;-)

It's a good thing I have goats so they can carry the transit in case we want to measure the goats on the trail. There is good logic in here somewhere.


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## idahonancy

I bought a scale with a dial on the face that goes to 250 lbs. Then made a calf sling to fit the goats that clipped onto the scale. Attached the scale to the front end of a John Deer bucket loader and lifted the goats off the ground. The goat were thrilled with process. A pool and lazer level, really boys wouldn't you rather have a John Deer. Then Bob would have to have a yard sale to clean out his garage. 
IdahoNancy


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## Bob Jones

Jooohn Deeeeer Jooohn Deeeeer Joohn Deeeer Joohn Deer Jooohn Deer Jooohn Deer John

Rex, for a minute I thought we'd have to make Nancy an honorary man. But you say it enough times and it sounds like "Deer John". It's an evil woman trick. ;-)

But with a Front End Loader, we can let her in the club house ;-)

The scale only goes to 250 lbs? That's not hardly big enough to weigh fish ;-)

Sorry Rex. This thread's been hijacked. I'll go sit in the corner.


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## GoatTracksMagazine

This is an excellent idea, Rex. 

And until one gets a suitable scale figured out, we suggest trying the following fail-proof methods:

1. Have a carnival worker guess the weight
2. Ask your mother-in-law â€¦ sheâ€™s always right (isnâ€™t she?!)
3. Ask a teenager â€¦ heaven knows they are always right too!

 Hope all have a pleasant holiday weekend.


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## ryorkies

I seen on http://www.highuintapackgoats.com
He has photos with weights and heights of his
goats. I wonder if he would add the girth and length
to them. And you would have a pretty good start
on your chart just from what he already has.
There is quite a few goats there.

Rad


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## colomtngoat

Love the highjacking  
Here are the numbers on my goats:
Willy is: Sonny is:
1- 27in 1- 24.5 in 
2- 25 in 2- 24 in
3- 25 in 3- 22 in
4- 61.8 lbs 4- 49.4 lbs
5- Willy 5- Sonny
6- 3 months 4 days 6- 2 months 21 days

When Willy was 1 month old he was 27 lbs
and Sonny was 21 lbs.
Doug


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## Herb

I'm going to have to find a scale to participate, lots of nice suggestions in that regard. lol

When it's all said and done, the only weight that matters is "what they can pack." I've seen 250lb goats stick their tongue out at a 35lb load, and 180 lb goats laugh at 50lb loads. The goat weight is a reference, but it's really up to the goat when it comes to loads. Your goat should be an athlete, not just big. I'm not discounting the size factor, but endurance and stamina are traits that are just as important to me. One goat not holding up their end can delay the whole string, and size of the goat may have little to do with it.

I think it would be interesting data, but maybe some load and endurance data should find a way to be included too. Not interested in the "biggest" goat, just the optimum packing goat. I will often reference football when talking about the goat I'm looking for. I don't want the lineman(but he's big), I don't want wide receiver or running back(often to small, not always), in most cases I'm looking for the tight end, a good balance of size and athletic ability.


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## ali pearson

Isn't that what we're all looking for, really. All this hiking is to avoid the inevitable executive spread. 

There you go Bob, I said it so you don't have to since you put yourself in a time out.


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## Bob Jones

GoatTracksMagazine said:


> This is an excellent idea, Rex.
> 
> And until one gets a suitable scale figured out, we suggest trying the following fail-proof methods:
> 
> 1. Have a carnival worker guess the weight
> 2. Ask your mother-in-law â€¦ sheâ€™s always right (isnâ€™t she?!)
> 3. Ask a teenager â€¦ heaven knows they are always right too!
> 
> Hope all have a pleasant holiday weekend.


Love it!


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## Rex

We took height, weight and length measurements for nearly 40 goats at the Rendy this year. By about goat 15, we were already guessing the goats weights within 5lbs. Carnival work here we come!


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## Bwana Ken

Rex,

Two suggestions: First, I think #3 would be hard to get a consistent measurement for since everyone will have a different interpretation of exactly where the shoulder measurement should start. How about measuring from the base of the tail to the front of the chest instead? Seems like that would give you a more consistent measurement.

Second, include the breed of the goat in the database. Different breeds will have (slightly) different conformation so taking that into account will give a more accurate indicator of what "normal" height and weight are for a particular breed.

Sorry to get this thread back on track -- seemed like folks were having more fun running away with it! :lol: 

Thanks, Ken


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## Rex

Bwana Ken said:


> Rex,
> 
> Two suggestions: First, I think #3 would be hard to get a consistent measurement for since everyone will have a different interpretation of exactly where the shoulder measurement should start. How about measuring from the base of the tail to the front of the chest instead? Seems like that would give you a more consistent measurement.
> 
> Second, include the breed of the goat in the database. Different breeds will have (slightly) different conformation so taking that into account will give a more accurate indicator of what "normal" height and weight are for a particular breed.
> 
> Sorry to get this thread back on track -- seemed like folks were having more fun running away with it! :lol:
> 
> Thanks, Ken


Good points. The breed, or more aptly, the cross breeding was noted on the forms as well as could be described. The other measurements were taken from the "highest" point on the shoulder for both length and height with the goat standing naturally on level ground. Going all the way to the front may or may not be a better way to do it. Many goats get a fatty buldge in the front that would throw the measurement off by several inches. The decision to use the highest point of the shoulder straight up the front leg was because it is a structural formation and not subject to change much if the goat adds or looses weight. I guess we could debate it either way. Maybe it should be "in addition" to the other measurements. You can never have too much information.


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## Jake Levi

So where and how will this information be tabulated? 

Age is important, at time of measurement. 

Ref to load carrying, this is going to vary widely, from max loads to sustainable loads on multi days trek, to picnics etc on daytrips. 

Will there be a section here devoted to the data? Will it be tabulated? Or just posted here ? 

I think this is an excellent idea and anxious to see the input on it.


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## Rex

Jake said:


> So where and how will this information be tabulated?
> 
> Age is important, at time of measurement.
> 
> Ref to load carrying, this is going to vary widely, from max loads to sustainable loads on multi days trek, to picnics etc on daytrips.
> 
> Will there be a section here devoted to the data? Will it be tabulated? Or just posted here ?
> 
> I think this is an excellent idea and anxious to see the input on it.


The NAPgA has a project to tabulate this data.


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## Jake Levi

Has there been a compilation yet??


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## Hasligrove

Yes! Coming soon. Rex is out on vacation but he emailed it to me. I'm out trailer camping right now and I can't seem to attach anything via my iPad. I will post went I get home.


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## Bob Jones

Hasligrove said:


> Rex is out on vacation ...


Vacation? I thought his job was vacation. I can hear him now. "I think I'll take a break from goat packing and fishing and watching the grass grow. Maybe I'll go find a traffic jam somewhere." ;-)


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## Hasligrove

OK...here it is. Thanks Rex for putting this together. Great info here!


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## Hasligrove

Here is another chart using actual weight vs the weight chart using girth measurement. Anything over 42.25 inches is unknown for my weight chart only goes to that beign 200 pounds. It seems like the weight chart/girth method mostly makes them 5-15 pounds heavier.


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## IceDog

Wonderful info!

Hines (Heins) is 3/4 Saanen & 1/4 Alpine.

I think there is a typo on Tuxedo's height.

Thanks for compiling all the great info!


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## Jake Levi

[youtube][/youtube]

This is a great start, we need a couple hundred more of them on the data base, but this is excellent. Measuring them together like this helps the accuracy a great deal. I'd like to see it a yearly event at Rendy.


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## Jake Levi

I do want to start tracking my goats, in weight, height and girth, a tape measure I have, and then some, 

what works best for the scales? Platform scales? I amnot going to fool around picking them up and weighing both of is on bathroom scales, the smallest one is 60lbs now ! 

I am thinking of a feed store type platform scale with maybe a panel box around it. If I can find one.

A ranch near Eugene Or keeps records of their birth weights, 120 day weight, 6 mos and yearling weight, but they are selling meat goat stock. 

I am interested in mature size with emphasis on frame and it balanced with good conformation and muscling. My little kiko cross has nice weight but has the Boer shorter legs. 

Long range I would like to raise some 200+ lb wethers that enjoy packing.


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## Bob Jones

Hasligrove said:


> Here is another chart using actual weight vs the weight chart using girth measurement. Anything over 42.25 inches is unknown for my weight chart only goes to that beign 200 pounds. It seems like the weight chart/girth method mostly makes them 5-15 pounds heavier.


Pig is now 42.5 inches. He is only one and a half years old.


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## Jake Levi

Pig is off to a geat start !!

My guys are under a year, but only have a weight on one, the Boer/Alpine who was 61lbs a month ago at 7 mos., but he hasnt much height yet, I will measure them all and do really want to get the scales to know what I am working with.


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## Bob Jones

I just ran him over to the recycling place and had him weighed. He is 200 pounds exactly.


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## Jake Levi

Thats impressive Bob ! 

I forget what he is, Boer/Alpine mix ???


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## Bob Jones

I forget too. He is Boar and Sanaan, and something else if I remember anything. Sweetgoatmama knows. Id have to pull out the papers she gave me. I just ordered one of her monster truck packers and this is what I got. The thing about breeding packers is that they get snipped before they breed.

If he gets too much bigger my plans for canoeing may go down the tubes. ;-)


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## Jake Levi

if they dont go down then you all may go down. 

I have a Boer/Alpine wether that is really taking off now, it will be very interesting to see what he will be as a yearling. 

In the spring I am getting a Kiko buck to breed my does and maybe another one, a kiko. I think that they will make very nice pack goats. Time will tell.


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## Rex

Bob Jones said:


> I just ran him over to the recycling place and had him weighed. He is 200 pounds exactly.


Can you provide the rest of his measurements? Height to the tallest point of the shoulder and length from the point of the shoulder to the base of the tail.


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## Bob Jones

Rex said:


> Bob Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just ran him over to the recycling place and had him weighed. He is 200 pounds exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you provide the rest of his measurements? Height to the tallest point of the shoulder and length from the point of the shoulder to the base of the tail.
Click to expand...

33" and 33" Oh wait, I got those backwards. It's 33" and 33" ;-)


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## Jake Levi

Which ones which ???


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## Bwana Ken

Good God! Pig is only 18 months old and already 42 inches tall and 200 lbs? By the time he's full grown he'll be as big as a horse! What have you been feeding him and where can I get some for my goats?

I think SweetGoatMama pulled a fast one on you: she didn't sell you a goat, she gave you a baby elk!


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## Bob Jones

Bwana Ken said:


> Good God! Pig is only 18 months old and already 42 inches tall and 200 lbs? By the time he's full grown he'll be as big as a horse! What have you been feeding him and where can I get some for my goats?


Haha. He grew 9" in your care. He was only 33" when he left here. ;-)

I fed him a mix based on sweetgoatmama's formula, but I forgot the details. So he was getting a lot of fat. When I weaned him, he went on free access calf manna and whatever else he could find in the yard. So he got lots of sugars in the fruits... apples and grapes.

He's been on the same hay as the others for the summer, but I picked up calf manna for him for the winter. I will probably ration it out a bit now.


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## Jake Levi

Bob you really got to bring him to the 2012 rendy !! I am looking forward to the weighing and measuring part as much as I am the rest.

I was surfing for scales, Hoeggers has the vet office ones, starting over $500, I think I will be looking for a good used feed store platform one for bags of feed.


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## Bob Jones

I had the tape on me yesterday. His hips are 36". So he is not level. He'll be great for going uphill ;-)

Has a location been chosen for the rendy? I only missed the last one because my truck broke.


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## Jake Levi

The Rendy is in Wa, pics of the site are on the NPGA site, I am making it my for sure place to be next July.


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## Bob Jones

I'd have to take a week off to go that far.


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## Jake Levi

Thats okay Bob !! :lol: 

We all want to see Pig !


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## Saltlick

*Re: Documented weight versus measurements - 11 months*

My kid Putnik is 11 months old now, and according to the dairy goat measuring tape he is 115 or so pounds. He is going through a growth spurt, but I almost can't believe it. I wish I had a scale to weigh him on! I'm hoping he will get at least as big as Hodja, who is 36 inches at the shoulder and according to the tape 195 pounds.


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## ryorkies

Did anything come of the new updated goal of a more accurate weight chart?


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## Bob Jones

Pig is now 35" tall, 34" long, and 44 girth. I'll try to get him weighed.


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## idahonancy

Some seriously good info with a touch of the ridiculous. I hope Bob finds us. Wonder how Pig is doing?


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## TOU

idahonancy said:


> Some seriously good info with a touch of the ridiculous. I hope Bob finds us. Wonder how Pig is doing?


Agreed, he always brings a smile to my face with his post! :lol:


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## TDG-Farms

I love Bob  We really need the contact list to send notice to those missing.

On a side not, TAFFY! my weight tape doesnt fit around Legion anymore by lots. Can I come by and use your scale?


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## Jake Levi

Is there a compilation of previous years Rendy measurements and weights? If so, who keeps it? 

I have to believe that this can be a very valuable resource. 

Yup, Bob has a real gift of gab, I have learned not to have coffee in the mouth when I click onto one of his posts.


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## goat girls

I just saw this I know it's old but my 7 month old whether is 70# 27'tall not sure of the length but he's in a bit of a growth spurt so it's changing frequintly


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