# CMPK or no?



## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

I have an Alpine doe that is at day 140 today. This is her last freshening (her first with me). She is 9 years old. She gets free choice alfalfa and about 1 1/2 cups of grain per day. She also has free choice minerals and baking soda. She is very wide - hope there is more than 1 in there!

The last 2 days she has been touchy walking on her front feet. I thought she may be a little down on her calcium so I've been nutri-drenching her 2x per day and giving her tums. She is no better, but no worse. She is eating and drinking well and she is very alert and friendly. She does come out of the barn with me but doesn't follow me around like she usually does. She will walk to the hay bin and water buckets and to her scratching post and then go lay down for a while - then starts the whole thing over.

I'm watching for toxemia. Should I treat more aggressively at this point with CMPK and Dextrose? I have injectables of both on hand. Or, should I continue with only the Nutri Dench? She's not showing full blown symptoms of toxemia - but I don't want her to get there either. Is this just late stage pregnancy "I feel huge-rs"?

So my question is -- should I go ahead with the CMPK? If so, how often and how long - until she kids? What about the Dextrose?

Thanks in advance.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I would give 45- 60cc of the CMPK orally twice a day. The nutri drench is propylene glycol which will give energy same as the dextrose. I would indeed give one of the other twice a day with the CMPK.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Give the injectible orally?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

DoraBud said:


> Give the injectible orally?


Yes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Wont That will burn her mouth????


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes it will.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ive never done it orally but you can mix it with Gatoraide or even flat dark beer.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Wont That will burn her mouth????


I just drank 2cc myself. A little sour. No burn. Mix it with some dextrose if you want. My doe didn't mind it. I gave it and the propylene glycol mixed.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

LOL..Tenacross....you are a brave person lol...


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

A veterinarian in Oregon that raises Boers is the one who told me to give the CMPK this way. Taste the CMPK yourself if you don't believe me.  There is some danger of cardiac arrest giving it injected. DoraBud said her doe "is not showing full blown symptoms". I would think oral would be the way to go at this point.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Tenacross said:


> I just drank 2cc myself. A little sour. No burn. Mix it with some dextrose if you want. My doe didn't mind it. I gave it and the propylene glycol mixed.


Oh the things we do for our goats :laugh: Once, I cut a castrating band and (I know, I know, not smart) held it around my finger, to make sure it went numb.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh, I believe you Tim. I've just always been told it can burn their throat. That gives another option though if needed.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks all. I gave the 1st one sub Q, but I'll go ahead and do the rest orally (much easier!).


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I dont know doraBud...I find shots are easier to give then oral...lol...My girls fight me tooth and nail when I go oral lol


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, but I cry, the goats cry -- we all cry - very sad time in the barn. And me trying, the whole time, to convince them that I'm sorry but that I have to do it. So sad.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I hear ya...went to giving nuflor oral to my little man..hes been a pic cushion for weeks now..just couldnt do it any more to him lol..but hes less than 20 pounds...a few of my does are close to 200# lol..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

The concern with cardiac arrest and CMPK is only if you are injecting it IV. Subcutaneous is fine. 

personally I prefer to inject stuff. My goats hate having things shoved down their throat and will fight and stress and spit as much out as they can. If I inject I know I get them the correct dose and íts over and done with quickly. 

anyway, how is the doe doing?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

When I calcium drenched my doe, she thought it was her yummy wormer treat (we deworm herbally and add molasses to it). Halfway through the eager swallow she realized her terrible mistake :laugh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

haha danielle, thats like worming bottle babies for the very first time. They see the syringe and suck it down thinking its milk, then realise it is definitely NOT milk! LOL


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Whatever works best for you all is fine with me. I'm not anti injection by any means. I just don't have the trouble some of you claim when drenching goats. Sometimes on an adult goat that hasn't been drenched in a long time, or never, they will act like I'm killing them for the first dose or two. But then they get where it's easy. I've treated hypocalcemia/preg tox does where they seem like they know it is helping them and they drink it down with relish. My Saanen Blanch would suck down the MFO (which tastes exactly like CMPK injectable BTW), and then follow me around for more. I've recently been treating a little dam raised buck kid with neomycin oral without any fuss. The more I drench, the easier it gets. That's been my experience anyway.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

She is still the same -- no better - no worse. Still eating/drinking/chewing cud fine. I let them out this morning and she wandered around the yard - ate some alfalfa, ate some mix, ate some early grass that is coming up. She doesn't look sick just sore on her front legs. I'll keep up with the CMPK and Nutridrench. Once she gets the babies on the ground we'll see if her feet issues go away. The CMPK and Nutridrench won't hurt her - so better to be safe than sorry.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, Momma goat is at day 142 today and started long stringy clear mucous. Vulva is very puffy and teats are full (but udder not yet full). Ligs are squishy but not yet gone. Wish she would hold out a few more days. Still eating, not nesting yet - but I don't know her patterns as this is her first one with me. Still giving the CMPK and drench - still stiff on the front legs.

Blizzard tonight and all day tomorrow.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

she is very close...hope all goes well..stay warm : )


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

that looks like labour mucus to me.


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## bayouboergoats (Dec 30, 2012)

I would say very close! Good luck hope all goes well!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

When mine do that, they are about to kid.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Well she kidded. 3 babies, but 2 were mummified. The lone surviving one is a, for now, cou clair buckling. Had a heck of a time getting the guy out -head was stuck - had to pull a long time. The 1st mummified baby came out quickly after. The 2nd one is still attached inside along with the 1st babies placenta. It is still encased in its own bag. Will post pics as soon as she finishes passing everything - let me know if you want to see the mummified ones -- I won't post them here, but I'll send an email.

Baby boy looks good so far, and momma is being a great mom.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

So sorry about the other babies ... glad you have your little boy


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow....wishing a fast recovery for mom..Good job on getting those babies delivered...I sorry about the two ..glad little man is doing good..


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm not sure if I misunderstood but did you say that she still has a mummified kid inside? 

If so - scrub up again and pull it out. A good rule of thumb is that if you have to assist delivery of one, go ahead and deliver the rest. With hard births (and you said the live kid was hard to get out) they get tired very quickly and it is much easier on them if you just get it over and done with. Especially since she is an older girl.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry, no it was not still inside. Its sac had not broken and was hanging outside of momma along with the broken sac from the 1st baby. I've not seen anything like this before. Vet said to cut it off and the rest will come out with the placenta.

Baby boy is struggling a little now. So stinking cold here. Temp dropped and we've got him inside under heat. Temp waivers at 100 - 101. Gave coffee/molasses. Got some momma's milk in him and he is trying. He is alert and trying to drink from a bottle. Will keep you posted.

Momma's passed the placenta and looks good. Misses baby. Gave shot of penicillin cause I had to go in.


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Well, he's ok. Doesn't want to take the bottle, but we're persistent. Took him out once to Momma to see if he would latch on, but no luck. Will keep trying tomorrow. He's not eating a much as I would like him to, so we just keep offering a little every hour. Hopefully he's getting enough in there.

Here is one pic of him


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hes beautiful : ) .. persistence will win over getting him to nurse...hows his sucking reflex? So glad mom is doing well..


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

He is cute - looks like 1 nubian ear and 1 alpine ear (Momma is 25% Nubian and 75% Alpine. Daddy is 100% Alpine). 

He is still not taking to the bottle. I tubed him early this morning to get a good full tummy. He sucks on my finger ok, but does not like the nipple. Have tried all the nipples I have - the only one I have left is the calf one - guess I'll try that one. Mommas teats are pretty wide so if he can get the calf one then maybe it will make it easier for him to get a hold of Mommas. Have taken him out several times to Momma but he won't latch on there either. And I can't leave him very long because even in the barn its very cold. And without him nursing he'll go down fast.

I'll get milk in him one way or another, but sure would be easier if he'd figure it out!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We used Lamb nipples for a few of our whose mom has bit teats...helped to get them used to the size : )


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## DoraBud (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, I have those too. I think once I can get him to take any of them then I can transition him to the bigger ones. 

Just need to get the little goomer to do it on his own!!

No longer looks cou clair - more chamoise


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

very handsome : )


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

ThreeHavens said:


> Oh the things we do for our goats :laugh: Once, I cut a castrating band and (I know, I know, not smart) held it around my finger, to make sure it went numb.


I took a castrating band, not cut, and slid it around my finger! I hear ya, sister! :crazy:


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