# Winter water supply dilema -How can I make this work?



## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I just bought 3 55 gallon water barrels for $45. I am afraid this might be a waste of my money. I don't know how I am to refill them in the dead of winter. I don't know how I am to keep them from freezing. If I was to use tank heaters or heated buckets I would have to pay for the electricity used.
My dad said that if there is going to be so much money in feed and water as well as everything else then I shouldn't be doing this "hobby". I told him it was for milk and meat. He said to price it at the store and see if its really worth it. I pay for most of everything anyways, he only pays for feed these last two months. I paid to have them bred ect.

I have way to much money into them to just sell out. He doesn't think that hauling water 3 times a day is practical....being that I have bad knees.

If the water in the barrel was stirred would it keep from freezing? I am wanting to store them in the woodshop (as its insulated) and I could put insulation around the barrels.

How can I make this work?
Can I get some tips and tell me what you guys do in the winter.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

How many goats are you watering? How far from the house to the barn?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I have faucets right by my troughs and fill their water up 2x a day during winter. They usually freeze completely overnight for a couple months out of the year. When that happens, I just drag them in the pen and dump the whole tub of ice and refill. We use rubbermaid brand small troughs.

I have the same questions as Logan.


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

2 full size does and one boer doe kid. Hauling water would be about 150 yds from the cellar or laundry tub. If the barrels were put in the shop I would have to haul 20 ft through a hallway instead of outside. We get A LOT of snow and snow drifts so hauling water 150 yds through 5ft of snow might not work.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Hmm...can you use a hose from the house to the pen? You'd have to drain it each watering and dump the ice each time, but that would be way easier. 

What have you done in previous years?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

We are hoping to have water lines run to our new barn before harsh Winter. The other side of our property we are going to have to make due how we did last year. We actually use almost 300 feet of hose and keep it in the basement so it doesn't freeze. We pull it out and hook up fill water troughs and then bring it back in basement. 

Hot water freezes quicker so toping buckets with hot water to defrost them actually makes them freeze quicker. :roll: 

Will you be going out to see them a few times a day? If yes I would think that taking water bottles like the one gallon size if a full bucket is too much on your knees. May be the best idea. I can't imagine 3 goats drinking more than 5 gallons a day so if you add 2 gallons 2 times a day I would think they should be ok. 
Maybe with the barn insulated they wont freeze as much. 

I have a friend that has a insulated water tub thing that the water never freezes. It wasn't cheap but no electric costs. It only holds 25 gallons so it also would need to be refilled just not as often.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

This might work---we have only off and on days of freezing/snow here so my "extra work" with freezing water is only for a few days at a time--not for months  

I have a big water trough. I empty it--pull it in the barn and fill it up. We use a floating heater (you can get them at a feed store for under $20). That way I have a big supply of water that is warm (wont' freeze) because when it gets this cold we have to shut off the water to our barn (or the pipes will freeze and could burst) 

I use the big TSC buckets and fill them w/the heated water and put them out 2x's a day. This way they can "come and get" the water before it freezes. Again, because we only have a few days of ice/snow at a time I usually bring the horses and will bring the goats in and keep them stalled.

This year, however, I am going to invest in some of the small heated buckets. I have not looked closely at them--I am not sure if they require electricity? But those types of buckets might be an option for you. The initial investment might be a bit-but they would last for many winters.


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## mommaB (Oct 1, 2009)

I SWEAR by trough warmers!! My barn is at least a good 50 yards from my house, and my hose freezes. So I can't just turn it on when I want to water. I have to thaw them first.
Anyhow.....MOST trough warmers only kick ON when it get down to a certain temp to keep the trough from freezing. So maybe you could explain to you dad that the warmers are not going to run constantly. Maybe offer 10 or 15 bucks a month for the electric bill??
Just a thought? :shrug: Hope it all works out for you! :thumb:


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

I dont think the hose will work. This is my first winter with goats. We have lived at this house through one winter. We had 2-3 weeks of -15f weather with a lot of drifts. I thought it would be good to have a water supply..but it would freeze. How much water will I need to haul each day if I used a 5 gallon heated bucket? I figure it would cost 8-$18 a month for 120 watts depending on how long its on. Which I would consider if its less work.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Water heaters do use a good amount of electricity. I would think that using a good size heater in one of the big barrels would be the most cost effective and that way the larger supply would be unfrozen to refill the smaller bucket. Then when one barrel gets low switch the heater to the next tank. I wonder how a fish tank heater would work in that cold of temps in one of those barrels?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Sounds like you have a lot to think about.

If you do not want to keep the water troughs full and keep a heater in them then you will be hauling water all the time. 
Now keep in mind, they do NOT drink as much in the winter, so it will not be like they are trying to cool off.

No warm or Hot waster does NOT freeze faster then cold water, that is a old wives tale. There has been studys to prove that.

you could always just plan on taking a water bucket or two every time you go out to feed or chek on them. I have 4 water tanks 55 gallon ones and the heaters in them and my bill goes up a couple bucks a month int the winter. Like what was said, they shut off, I also use a board on the top of the tanks to help keep the heat in the tank and only have a area for them to drink out of. Works great.

My bill goes up more when I leave my chirstmas white light on all the time, I bought soler lights that are motions sensored to come on to help keep the bills down.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Also, for 9 years I used a hose in the COLD Colorado winters. I had it on a hose real that I could wind it back up, and take it in the house every time I used it so it would not freeze.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

sweetgoats said:


> No warm or Hot waster does NOT freeze faster then cold water, that is a old wives tale. There has been studys to prove that.


I guess all my Science and Physics teachers were wrong. Or I have just been out of school so long that they have discovered new evidence. :wink: Probably the latter.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Also, for 9 years I used a hose in the COLD Colorado winters. I had it on a hose real that I could wind it back up, and take it in the house every time I used it so it would not freeze.


 I agree....I would really consider using the hose method... it will make things so much easier.... :wink:


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

That isn't very many goats, how about hauling them buckets of water? I use buckets for all the goats, and have two sets for winter when they don't need as much water. In the morning we take out the frozen one and replace it with a fresh one. When it is very cold you might have to replace it in the middle of the day too. Especially if you can let them have access to the shop way that you describe, this might not be too hard. Those big tubs are great for food, if you decide not to use them for water.

I don't think you can do it for less than store prices for milk and meat, but you know what your meat ate, and the milk is pure and fresh and you know how your doe was treated, plus what she ate. It is a lot healthier for everyone. And better too. Maybe your dad would hear that. Grocery store meat is purely scary.

Jan


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## Breezy-Trail (Sep 16, 2011)

He didn't want me to be loosing money raising goats. My dad really understands and is supportive of me. It is just I need to be saving money. This first year has been costly.
He told me to write up what the average yearly cost would be. I would sell the kids for slightly more than what I might pay yearly. I really shouldn't complain, but sometimes his most cost effective way may be costly...such as insulating and heating the goat stall (which it would be cheaper to use a heated bucket). We are usually quite busy and sometimes need to stop and think things through.

He was happy to know that I'm not loosing money. Times are tough, but he is going to help with feed when he can, and pay supply bills (milk filters and stuff).

I was thinking I would have to haul a 5 gallon bucket 2-3 times a day. I might just use 1 gallon jugs as I am out there 2-3 times a day, that would not be too much work and is not spillable.
I would then use one barrel for feed and 2 as rain barrels in the summer.

The reason I raise goats (other than them being friends, a hobby, and having fun personalities) is to provide our family with milk and meat and not charging them for it. This is why my dad wants to help when he can because nothing is free. So I am glad to have an understanding family.

They are not usually the cause of my frustration. I hate spending money (its a disease lol) unless its needed and hate it more when wasted. At first I was thinking those barrels were a waste...but there are so many uses for them.


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

If you aren't actually trying to muscle through snow drifts for the entire 150 yds (meaning if part of the way is plowed), you can make life a lot easier with a "jet" sled (heavy duty sled). For a couple of winters, I fed & watered pigs, cows, chickens and goats by dragging everything with the sled (on snow). 
If you save any plastic gallon containers (think of something like cider vinegar jugs, store-bought milk or water containers), you could just use those to haul a few gallons to them a couple times a day and they are easy to carry. If you can check on them often & figure out how much water they are really needing & have the water buckets so they can't poop in them, they may do just fine with a few gallons twice a day. I give mine warm water when it gets really cold out, and if no one is producing milk, have found that they average about 1- 1.5 gallon/day each for drinking water. 
It's really important though, to water them at least 2x/day because the water may freeze or may get soiled (poop :roll: ) Also, while mammals do not necessarily require as much water during the winter for cooling purposes, they actually cannot maintain proper body heat without being properly hydrated ~ that is a fact for us humans also! :wink:

You were posting at the same time I was! You sound like you've got it figured out & you have a supportive family. What you are doing is great! :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

The barrels will be handy for non freezing months, so you did good getting those 

For the days it gets below freezing, IMO with just 3 goats, I would save your milk jugs, wash them out, and use those, fill them with luke warm water, and take those out to them. In the winter, thats what I do, I fill up a bucket, and make sure everyone is getting a good drink in the morning and afternoon, just in case the water freezes. 
If you keep the bucket in the barn, put lots of hay around it, that can help keep it from freezing, and just take a couple of jugs of water out there with you every time you go out.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

Do you have sunshine? Can you hang black water bags from the barn and have them exposed to the sun? They will keep the water warm. Or try solar water heaters. They work too.


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## CapriGem (May 12, 2010)

I have found that several plastic jugs filled with fresh watercan be transported easier with the help of a cheap plastic sled (the longer sleds work best). As long as there is snow to help make the hauling smooth.

You could also put buckets of water in the sled.

:thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I found this build it yourself solar stock tank at Mother Earth News http://www.motherearthnews.com/do-it-yourself/solar-stock-tank-z10m0gri.aspx


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## turtlebutte goats (Nov 23, 2008)

Absolutely nothing stops the cold from Canada blowing thru to where I live in South Dakota, it gets really cold and snowy here!!! 

What I did after a few years of hauling water twice a day was the following:
I bought 150' of 1.5" pvc pipe, and all the connectors. (ya know, the white pipe used for sewer drainage, septic tanks, roof vents, etc...) I attached the whole thing together, but did not glue the joints and connectors to the long pieces of pipe. I then took the end of the pipe and placed it near where I was filling the waterer and tied it to the fence. I then placed the other end right under the hydrant with a flange on that end, making the 1.5" pipe increase in size to 6" I then went along the pipe and tied it on to a fence, tree, another shed, etc..., GRADUALLY sloping the pipe towards the waterer. Wa-la!!!! All I have to do is stand at the hydrant, turn on the water, let it flow for about 30 seconds, and then shut the hydrant off. It fills the waterer and then self drains due to the slope in the pipe. It has never froze solid in the pipe as long as you keep the pipe sloping gradually. I left the connectors not glued to the pipe just in case it would freeze and then all i would have to do is take the pipe apart and let it thaw out. Perfect remedy, and I have not carried a bucket of water since, summer or winter.


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

I use the 5 gallon heated bucket, but where you live it might need to be on 24/7. Better to go with a tank heater - and you don't need to heat the water, just keep it from freezing, so look for a tank de-icer with thermostat which uses less electricity and will only come on when the water gets just to freezing. That way when weather permits you can walk warm water to the goats - in rough weather/snow drifts you have your de-iced supply.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

One thought I had, we have a solar panel hooked up to a battery for our electric netting, my friend told me if you acquire a power inverter and connect that you can either plug in a heated water bucket or get some kind of heater (a larger version of an aquariam heater? this was in play for chicken waterers) that you set into your water buckets to keep the water from freezing...
I am considering this myself and thought I would put it out there (I see the solar panels on Craigslist fairly often, but we already have the one)...


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I live in Maine and the temp is similar to yours. I haul water 3-4 times a day to 3 horses, 14 goats, 10 dogs and a flock of chickens. 

I heat with a wood stove in my kitchen. I have 3 times as many 5 gallon buckets as I need. I always have 1 set of frozen buckets near the stove defrosting, 1 set with water ready to go out to the various barns, kennels and coops and 1 set in the various housing areas. The only difference is the horses, and they have a 50 gallon trough I keep filled.

I just rotate the buckets 3-4 times a day. I have severe Rheumatoid arthritis but can still easily haul the 5 gallon buckets to and from the housing areas. Even in the deep snow, I just shuffle the snow out of the way until I have a path. 

I refuse to have electricity in my barn. I had a fire kill all my goats 2 years ago. That was not caused by electricity, but I will do anything to keep my animals safe. To me that means no electricity in the barn unelss I am in the barn. Goats will chew just about anything they can get their mouths on and I just don't feel comfortable with anything electric near them.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Not sure what the OPs situation is, aside from bad knees that make water hauling sound like a notso good idea....
But mine is that i am gone 3 - 4days a week and know that my family will lapse on the watering.....(these are also my goats and I dont want them to resent them)...


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

For my critters, I use plug-in, thermostatically-controlled, heated water dishes which don't use all that much power, really, and sure save me going out with buckets of fresh hot water. Is there power where you keep the goats, or could you run an extension cord out there? I kinda gritted my teeth when I paid for the buckets initially, but have been grateful for not having to plan my day around being home to haul hot water and break ice at given times during the day. 

Also, you are probably aware, having two smaller buckets, one in each hand, is easier on your skeleton and supporting muscles than the same amount of water in one bucket.

Your dad might be right about the economics, or not--it depends on what time-frame you expect to see a return on your investment of money and time, and what you feel you have gained in addition to milk, meat, and money. Hands-on experience that no book can duplicate, perhaps? Bonding with your animals? Count all the values when you're doing your cost/benefit analysis!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This thread was originally posted in 2011.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Oh, word to the wise--hot water does _not_ freeze more quickly than cold water. If you have a bucket of hot water, and a bucket of cold water, and set them outside, the hot water _will_ come down in temperature _more quickly_ than cold water, *until it reaches the same temperature as that bucket of cold water *(which is also getting colder). Then, once they are the same temperature, they will get cold at the same rate as each other. Hot water _appears_ to freeze more quickly, but that is an illusion caused by thermal loss being greater, the higher the differential in temperatures. Heat loss tapers off as the water gets colder. Cold water being closer to freezing, the rate of heat loss will be slower. So, using hot water can actually buy you some time between refills.


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