# Does vs doelings



## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm trying to get some pygmy does raised up so we can have family milkers, but I'm having really terrible luck with purchasing doelings. Two out of the three I've purchased in the last month have died within days of bringing them home! Now I'm left, again, with one lonely 8 month old doe. Not to mention, this is getting expensive! 

My question is, are does easier to move to a new location than kids? The two that have died have been 3 and 4 months old.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Do you know what the other ones died from??? Did they come from the same place? Only asking to make sure your place doesn't have something going on. 



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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm at a loss to explain this...I'll pump you for information, because if I don't, the next responder will...the questions about your husbandry are not meant in an accusatory way, just trying to get some facts to help shed light on when, where, and how things started to go wrong. 

Do you know what they died of? Were they apparently healthy when you got them? Did they get diarrhea, fever, ___? In other words, what were their symptoms? Were they already weaned when you got them? How did the breeder have them housed? What was their diet at the breeder's? What was their diet at your place? What brands of prepared foods, if any? Where were they kept, what temperature, were they with other animals, could they have gotten into poisonous plants, mouldy hay, or into chicken feed?

How is your remaining goat doing, any change in her condition since you got her?

I'm sorry that you and the goats are off to a sad start. Hoping that by putting our heads together we can change to a better course.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry for your losses. 
Are Pygmies going to give you enough milk? Nigerians are small like Pygmies, but they are more dairy and generally the ones kept as milkers.

And I believe Pygmies are more likely to be difficult to milk (small teats.) Some Nigerians have small teats too, but it is probably a bigger issue in Pygmies because they are not specifically bred to be milkers.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Goat in Hummel. Good questions. Yes we need more information to help. 

Can't say if doelings or does are better when it's uncertain what is killing your purchases


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

Jessica84 said:


> Do you know what the other ones died from??? Did they come from the same place? Only asking to make sure your place doesn't have something going on.


I'm not POSITIVE what either of them died from.

We originally brought home two does. One 7mo, and one 3.5mo.

The first (3.5mo) one died after two nights. She just started to sag. First tail down, then laid down (not on her side), then head drooped down. She would let me come right up to her, and this was the one who was not tame to us yet. She didn't have runny poop or nose, no cough, no teeth grinding, no bloat, no symptoms that I could see except sagging/droopiness. I took her to the vet around 9:30 at night. He gave her some B vitamins and wanted to observe her over night. Then called the next morning to say that she didn't make it through the night. He did a necropsy and only found a few leaves, no big poop back up or anything. He was at a loss.

Oh, and the first night we brought them home the neighbors had a three hour fireworks show :-/. The goats were terrified.

The other one we brought home at that time (now 8mo) is still alive and doing great, except she's lonely.

The second one to die, came home with us last Thursday. (Came from a different place). She looked a little bloated when I got her home, but my friend who also raises goats was here and said she looked fine. She also had clumpy poop. I thought this was probably from the stress of moving. I wormed her because I was planning to anyway.

She was doing good, eating alfalfa and hay, drinking water, all the way up to the next morning. She looked good when I left the house. When I came home a few hours later, I went to take her some baking soda, because I was still a little worried about her getting bloated, and I found her dead. Laying on her right side, real bloated up.

Other goat is still doing fine.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do any of these people do coccidia prevention? Did you ever have fecals done to include coccidia?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I remember you posting about your last girl  and if I remember right the owner said that this wasn't the first time they sold a goat and it just died correct?? So it sounds like you might just have had crappy luck with the 2  
Cocci also came to mind. And a move is very stressful and cocci or really any illness could take over fast but you had placed both of those little doelings with the one still a live and she is still fine which to me says cocci. 
So to answer your question IF it WAS cocci then young goats are more prone to it being a issue then adults. Adults can still have it but less of a chance. If you really have your heart set on a doeling then look at the other kids and see if any of them have poopy butts. Ask questions like if they do a cocci prevention. You can even buy meds and just start a treatment when they get home. Look at the animals eye lids and make sure they are nice and pink. This is all going on if this is the issue.
When they get home slowly introduce them to what you are feeding them or even ask the breeder for some of the feed that they are feeding. That goes for if you get a doeling or a doe.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm going to echo what someone said about milking pygmy's. They are not bred for milking, Nigerians are. I would definitely switch to Nigerian if you're wanting milk. Something else to consider is that if you are wanting milk, you will have a year to wait and feed a doeling vs being able to breed and/or milk right away with a full grown doe.

As for does vs doelings. I don't think there is a lot of difference. It just depends on the animal and how they cope. We wean and sell on the same day which is a huge stress all the way around but the kids usually survive. I don't like bottle babies (LOL everyone on here is probably getting tired of me saying that!) because they tend to die pretty easy....they have no body mass to fall back on so when they start going downhill, they just go. 

What are you feeding when you move them? I would feed straight grass hay for a few days. Alfalfa is rich and, if they aren't use to it, could cause a feed related issue. My husband put about 3 pounds of sweet feed in with the new doe I bought the other day....luckily I caught it and dropped it down to just a couple handfuls. She has settled in ok and hasn't gotten sick. She got mainly grass hay for a couple days.


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

Goat_in_Himmel said:


> Do you know what they died of? Were they apparently healthy when you got them? Did they get diarrhea, fever, ___? In other words, what were their symptoms? Were they already weaned when you got them? How did the breeder have them housed? What was their diet at the breeder's? What was their diet at your place? What brands of prepared foods, if any? Where were they kept, what temperature, were they with other animals, could they have gotten into poisonous plants, mouldy hay, or into chicken feed?
> 
> How is your remaining goat doing, any change in her condition since you got her?


No offense taken at all! I need all the help I can get, and info helps you help me! Thank you!!!

So let's see, both goats were apparently healthy when I got them.

The symptoms were listed earlier, but I forgot to say, that neither had a fever.

Both were weaned, but the owner of the first told me later that it had still been nursing every once in a while.

Both breeders had them housed in open barns. Does that make sense? I guess it's more like a shelter.

The first was feeding a teensy bit of cracked corn and graze.
The second was feeding sweet feed and hay.

The diet at my place was alfalfa and hay. The remaining doe is getting a bit of cracked corn (I know it doesn't have real value, it's just what she was used to, so I'm going with it for now). I didn't ask the first breeder what she was feeding until the first little one got sick (I know, rookie mistake), so she didn't have any cracked corn at my place. And the second breeder was out of feed, so there was no sweet feed for the second one to eat at my place (just hay and alfalfa- didn't offer cracked corn).

We have a shady/forested/brushy goat pen behind our chicken coop. There could be poisonous plants back there, but the older goat is ok after all this time... Still could be though, I guess. And they didn't get into the chicken feed, it's on the other side of the barn from their pen. They have a large dog house that they sleep in. Oh ya, the first breeder just had the goats, but the second had goats and miniature horses in the same pen.

I don't know about the hay. Is it obvious if it's moldy ??

And the remaining goat is doing great. She is spunky and full of energy. We wormed her at the same time we wormed the last one who died.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Did the vet check the one doe for a temperature? It sounds like stress is possible but stress induced pneumonia comes to mind. 

As to the second doe there does sound like she came with something


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Cracked corn has energy and a small amount of protein. Don't sweat it (but unlike most on here I DO feed corn and have no issues with it). Lack of grain isn't going to kill them. Switching grains suddenly can make them sick....but you didn't do that. My goats have gotten into chicken feed many times without dying from it....or even really getting sick. 

It sounds to me like you just flat out had bad luck. A necropsy didn't show anything for you. Nothing you are doing (or not doing) drops a red flag to me. Where are you located? Someone on here might be able to help you find something at a decent price...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Could of been many things.

Too much corn can go toxic on them and cause rumen upset.

Poisoning.

Stress can trigger Worms or cocci, cocci doesn't always show scouring signs.

Anemia prior to getting them can drag them down. Check lower inner eyelids and gums. Is it white, light pink to dark pink?

Pneumonia from stress and weather changes. 

Always remember, if a goat is ill, not acting right, get a temp, normal is 101.5 to 103.5 
then we can get a better idea of how to treat them.


Does or doelings can get sick, so we need to act fast, get that temp first and treat accordingly.


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Do any of these people do coccidia prevention? Did you ever have fecals done to include coccidia?


I don't know if they did. And I haven't had decals done yet.


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

Fecals! Dern auto correct!


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

StaceyRosado said:


> Did the vet check the one doe for a temperature? It sounds like stress is possible but stress induced pneumonia comes to mind.
> 
> As to the second doe there does sound like she came with something


I don't know if he checked temp, but I did and it was 102.


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## happydaymomma (Aug 21, 2014)

kccjer said:


> Where are you located? Someone on here might be able to help you find something at a decent price...


I'm in Austin, TX. And I'm not especially attached to Pygmys over Nigerians. I just wanted smaller goats, and that's what I found first.

Thanks everybody for all the help! I'm learning so much!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Just a comment about bottle kids having no body mass? My bottle kids are the same size, some even larger, than the dam raised ones! 

Back to the topic at hand.....

I would suggest you get a couple of adult does, maybe one in milk and one bred. Or maybe both bred. Would save you a bunch of time and money. Kids are great, but for someone with minimal experience, I would suggest an adult or at least an adolescent. I feel adults or older "teen agers" are easier to learn on. Kids can be more ...uh...delicate? fragile? quicker to die? than older ones.


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