# Year old buckling. Keep as a breeding male?



## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

I think the title says it all. Our little boy is a year old now (in a few weeks anyway) and is about 40kg (90lb?). I'm in the UK so growth rates are typically slower than in the US from what I've heard. He seems very eager to work, and I've got some first time doelings who would be perfect to go with him (our big boy would crush them).

Also excuse the mud, he wouldn't possibly stand in the nice bit of the pen for his photo shoot.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What are your goals?
Are you selling for show, meat ect?


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> What are your goals?
> Are you selling for show, meat ect?


Primarily I'm aiming for a show herd, but we're not good enough yet. I'd only keep him for a year for one round of kids and then sell as a proven buck. I'm thinking he can give his dad a hand with the girls to make sure they all get served. Any lesser quality kids will naturally be meat though.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

May I ask, how does he "match" with the girls you'd like to breed him to? Is he strong in areas that could be improved by him? Do they match in faults?

Also, is he a step up from your other sire, or a step down? Because if your other sire is better, then maybe just wait until they are big enough for him?

My philosophy is that it isn't so much a matter of a "perfect buck" as it is a matter of a "perfect match"

Good luck. I'm glad you posted here.


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> May I ask, how does he "match" with the girls you'd like to breed him to? Is he strong in areas that could be improved by him? Do they match in faults?
> 
> Also, is he a step up from your other sire, or a step down? Because if your other sire is better, then maybe just wait until they are big enough for him?
> 
> ...


It's hard to say. His sire is a show champion but not bred by us so I couldn't compare to photos when he was a kid. I'm also trying to get just a little more genetic diversity between my herd to try and limit inbreeding and the buck seems to be getting a little tired these days when he tries to serve more than fifteen girls or so and I need 25 served at once.


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> May I ask, how does he "match" with the girls you'd like to breed him to? Is he strong in areas that could be improved by him? Do they match in faults?
> 
> Also, is he a step up from your other sire, or a step down? Because if your other sire is better, then maybe just wait until they are big enough for him?
> 
> ...


I just looked up his dad and the original breeder still has a photo on their site. His dad has a lot less neck than this kid (even if a lot of his neck is loose skin) and a more roman nose. He's also got a wonderful temperament, as does both parents. I can't really compare much else though as he's got a lovely scruffy winter coat whereas the pic of his dad is, well, clean. And I just can't get a photo of him with his head up to compare properly for the life of me.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

TooManyBoers said:


> I'm also trying to get just a little more genetic diversity between my herd to try and limit inbreeding and the buck seems to be getting a little tired these days when he tries to serve more than fifteen girls or so and I need 25 served at once.


I understand needing more than one buck.
( I like your user name I tend to have the same problem with all goats)


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> I understand needing more than one buck.
> ( I like your user name I tend to have the same problem with all goats)


Couldn't think of anything more fitting for me! And I do intend to get a few nubians at some point too. Goats are life. XD


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So does this buck match well with the girls you want to breed to him? How old are the chosen girls? Most of the Boer breeding advice here is not before at least a year old. Are they at least a year? Can they wait? Does your operation require 25 all at once or can it be spread out over a few months? Are these does offspring of the older sire? If so, they are also related to the younger sire. Can some of your herd wait until you get a new buck?

Although I have Boers in my herd, I am not a Boer breeder, like some of these people are. Nor do I know anything at all about Boers in the UK...OR about your set up and management needs. So I'm not telling, I'm only asking.

I like having more than one buck, because 1. I adore bucks. and 2. Not all does are well matched or will be improved by the same buck. But I don't ever want to go backwards in quality just to get a girl bred. So that is why I'm asking all this.

Sweet temperament counts for so much. That is great.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I think we all intend to get "just one more goat" I mean it's not "that much more money"


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> So does this buck match well with the girls you want to breed to him? How old are the chosen girls? Most of the Boer breeding advice here is not before at least a year old. Are they at least a year? Can they wait? Does your operation require 25 all at once or can it be spread out over a few months? Are these does offspring of the older sire? If so, they are also related to the younger sire. Can some of your herd wait until you get a new buck?
> 
> Although I have Boers in my herd, I am not a Boer breeder, like some of these people are. Nor do I know anything at all about Boers in the UK...OR about your set up and management needs. So I'm not telling, I'm only asking.
> 
> ...


The does will be a year and a half when they go in with him. Simply put, their growth wasn't as good as it should have been due to not-quite-right nutrition and not the best growth genetics (our very first buck's kids don't catch up until they're older, which isn't great). This kid has grown very well though considering he had a difficult start in life (first time mum with huge twins who rejected them because she was so exhausted) and obviously had good genetics.

Our operation requires 25 girls kidding every four months so they can't be spread. As mentioned above, these girls aren't related to him (except maybe one through the mum's side who will go to his Dad).


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> I think we all intend to get "just one more goat" I mean it's not "that much more money"


But just one goat will be lonely! You must get two together. And what if one dies? May as well just get three...

Ah, that's how I got so many.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Yep me to I got 3, well then " oh look at the baby goat for sale he needs a home well I might as well go look at him
3 hours later = all right you TWO little cuties here's your new home


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Slippery slope my friends... Be careful of that "Just one more." or (my personal tactic) "I've sold some, now I have room for more, and wouldn't it be great to get something unrelated?"

Beware...BEWARE...


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> Yep me to I got 3, well then " oh look at the baby goat for sale he needs a home well I might as well go look at him
> 3 hours later = all right you TWO little cuties here's your new home


Haha that's my problem to a T. Except now I've been banned from buying anymore... so the girls and boys better get to work!


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Slippery slope my friends... Be careful of that "Just one more." or (my personal tactic) "I've sold some, now I have room for more, and wouldn't it be great to get something unrelated?"
> 
> Beware...BEWARE...


But... there's this herd with some really nice goaties... and I'm gonna get a buck from there... and they're nice... I could always get just a few more does, right? Like, 20 more?


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

TooManyBoers said:


> But... there's this herd with some really nice goaties... and I'm gonna get a buck from there... and they're nice... I could always get just a few more does, right? Like, 20 more?


 Ya I wish with much heartach I have gotten my herd down to 8 and I'm boarding 2 goats


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> Ya I wish with much heartach I have gotten my herd down to 8 and I'm boarding 2 goats


Oh no! I'm here for you.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Why do goats grow more slowly where you live? Just curious!


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

catharina said:


> Why do goats grow more slowly where you live? Just curious!


I could be wrong, but I've heard American feed has lots of steroids in it? Or is that just the super large scale operations?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

TooManyBoers said:


> I could be wrong, but I've heard American feed has lots of steroids in it? Or is that just the super large scale operations?


I wonder if it's genetics. We don't have steroids in the feed, though some feeds do have medications in them.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Some of the antibiotics commonly put in our feed are there as growth promoters. It could be a combination of things, what we feed, how much we feed, what we choose to breed for.

Many times the American versions end up being not just bigger, but eventually becoming an entirely separate breed. Such as the Shetland Pony. The American Shetlands have little to do with the pony on the Shetland Islands.

It was ever thus...


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I wonder if it's genetics. We don't have steroids in the feed, though some feeds do have medications in them.


Perhaps there's something in the genetics (I do intend to buy an American buck one day). I know that american hens are much heavier than ours, so it follows suit. Plus we don't use medicated feeds so much so maybe there's something in it.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I have a line of Boers that is crazy slow growing


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## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

TooManyBoers said:


> I think the title says it all. Our little boy is a year old now (in a few weeks anyway) and is about 40kg (90lb?). I'm in the UK so growth rates are typically slower than in the US from what I've heard. He seems very eager to work, and I've got some first time doelings who would be perfect to go with him (our big boy would crush them).
> 
> Also excuse the mud, he wouldn't possibly stand in the nice bit of the pen for his photo shoot.


Nice looking fella! I would pick out just a few does and let him breed them and then see if you get a satisfactory result. For a good efficient meat herdsire, he should produce at least twins that are of average size and who will get up and be looking for their first meal from momma fairly soon after birth and generally be vigorous in nature. His kids should grow fairly fast and and be fairly uniform in size.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Calfee Farms said:


> For a good efficient meat herdsire, he should produce at least twins that are of average size and who will get up and be looking for their first meal from momma fairly soon after birth and generally be vigorous in nature. His kids should grow fairly fast and and be fairly uniform in size.


we want that coming from momma as well


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## Calfee Farms (Oct 10, 2017)

Samamtha said:


> we want that coming from momma as well


True, but the buck is very important because he is represented in half of your offspring. We only use a buck that was a twin or trip and his kids can match or exceed the sire..."Breed the best to the best and only keep the best of the best".


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I am SO much more picky about each individual buck than I am about an individual doe. I'll pay more for them, too.


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

Calfee Farms said:


> Nice looking fella! I would pick out just a few does and let him breed them and then see if you get a satisfactory result. For a good efficient meat herdsire, he should produce at least twins that are of average size and who will get up and be looking for their first meal from momma fairly soon after birth and generally be vigorous in nature. His kids should grow fairly fast and and be fairly uniform in size.


Good call, and I'm glad you think he's alright. The girls he'll be going with (probably 8 or so, assuming he can cope with the excitement of so many girls) will be first timers but if the kids can catch up with the second time kids then I assume he'll be good. I'm looking forwards to seeing what he's like as a big buck though, his grandad's a cracker and he has his grandad's meaty neck. Plus the photo doesn't show it well but you can pick him out of the pen based on his nuts, which can't hurt!


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I am SO much more picky about each individual buck than I am about an individual doe. I'll pay more for them, too.


Same here. Anytime I get a female kid I'm like, yeah, you might as well stay! XD But keeping a buck kid is new territory for me.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It sounds like you and Calfree are in agreement and you have a solid plan in place. Good luck.

When you do get genetics from the US, consider the climate the genetics is coming from. The US has immense variation in that regard, and you want it to match as closely as it can to the climate it is going into (all else being equal, of course) JMO


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice. 

You say, you kid every 4 months? Am I reading that right? It takes a Doe 5 months to kid.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think what that meant was 3 groups of does, so 75 does total. Each group kidding 1 time per year, but with 3 kidding times

Edited because I apparently can't do maths


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> All good advice.
> 
> You say, you kid every 4 months? Am I reading that right? It takes a Doe 5 months to kid.


Sorry, should have clarified. I have yet to develop a "super doe" that's pregnant for only three months sadly. What I meant was, our goats kid every eight months but we have a separate group kidding every four months. So right now I'm waiting on a group of (mostly) first timers to pop, and in April I've got a group of (mainly) second timers or more to kid. So, I have two separate groups of about 20 girls (so 40 girls, though I'm aiming for closer to 50) plus a few older girlies who've paid their way who will only be kidding once a year until I retire them. So we do four monthly cycle of kids in May-September-January plus a few once a year kids in July (when I've got more goats out in the fields and so more space in the barn).


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## TooManyBoers (Oct 19, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I think what that meant was 3 groups of does, so 75 does total. Each group kidding 1 time per year, but with 3 kidding times
> 
> Edited because I apparently can't do maths


Close


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

TooManyBoers said:


> our goats kid every eight months


That is really rough on them, isn't it? After how many kiddings do you allow them to drop down to only one kidding per 12 months?


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