# I need help with a grumpy male



## amy_rainbow (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi
Please can someone offer some advice, I am at the end of my tether!
I bought a castrated male kid in March of this year (12 weeks old I think) and then I bought him a female kid. Everything was fine for awhile...they used to play around the garden, come into my studio, go for walks with us and the dogs. Woody the male used to sit on my knee and snuggle. All was well until a hidden testicle dropped (we bought him castrated) and he developed this temper where he would ram his horns into you repeatedly...my legs have been black and blue from him. I love him dearly but he is making me so sad. We had the surprise testicle removed by the vet but he is still butting and being a general pain in the neck. When I feed him he butts me until I can put his food in his bowl.
The only time he is fine and a pleasure to be with is when he is out walking with us and enjoying 100% of our attention. When he is in the paddock with Bluebell (female goat) and the chickens he is ok until you go over then he butts and rams you.
He is nearing 12 months old but I want to do something to make him nice again as I dont want to get rid of him but I bought him to be nice goat to play with children but I have to keep children away from him.
Does anyone have any advice or suggestions?
When he butts and rams you he twists he horns in and it can seriously hurt so I know a few people, me included, have lost there temper with him and grabbed his horns to twist his head away from you so they can make a run for it.
When you brush him he is like putty in your hands but as soon as you stop, if there is nothing to interest him, he starts attacking again.
I am exhausted by it all.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help!!


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## erisfae (Sep 4, 2012)

Had a similar problem with one of my wethers. First and foremost, I'd recommend taping tennis balls to the end of his horns. I did that with my boy and it's wonderful! He quickly learned it wasn't as affective and backed down a bit. At the very least, it prevent serious damage.

Grabbing and pulling horns just irritates them and may provoke him more. Instead, tweak his ear! A quick twist-tug and a shout of 'No!' always stops mine, right away.

For feeding, If possible, I'd separate him from your doe. Try to feed him but, at the first sign of aggression, stop. Wait for him to calm and/or back away, and try again. It shouldn't take long for him to catch on that he doesn't get what he wants by headbutting. Don't be afraid to grab his ear when he butts you! He needs to know you're the dominant of the heard, not him. After a few days of pushing my wether away and not letting him get his way, he was a bit standoffish. I felt like a meanie when he wouldn't come up to me, but it was worth it. It took several days and a lot of patience for him to warm back up to me, like a shy goat to a stranger. Now, he's an all-around great goat.


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## amy_rainbow (Nov 13, 2012)

Tried yanking his ears...even both of them but he just looks at me (as though he is laughing) rears onto his back legs then spikes me with his horns!
Any other suggestions for the little tike???


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## erisfae (Sep 4, 2012)

Well, there's always the nose-twist. If you can, grab his upper lip and twist sharply. I've only used it on goats once, though, and it wasn't easy to get hold of. Honestly, your best solution may be a riding crop. Carry it with you and, when he comes at you, smack his nose. Every time he comes at you, he gets an unpleasant wack.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

how big of a boy is he? I have swept the legs out from under one of my previous bucks-he stopped after the 2nd time-he did not have horns-maybe a very loud horn when he does it to scare him? I hope something works!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Get a squirt gun. Goats usually don't like water.


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## Arkie (Sep 25, 2012)

I suppose I'm a brutal, knuckle dragging hillbilly who might serve time if reported to some of the animal rights groups, but the first time ANY animal inflicted pain or injury to me or mine the memory of the thrashing they would receive (leaving no permanent damage) would last a lifetime. If there was a second incident, the lifetime would probably end up being pretty short.

Bob


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## zubbycat (Oct 14, 2012)

One of the wethers I got does something a little similar, although not to the same extent. He has only actually butted me once. I'm a big advocate of force free training, and although I'm new to goats, the behavioral science behind training applies to all animals. 

You definitely don't want to reward him for butting you, so don't put his food down for him until he is calm and has all 4 feet on the ground. You want to always reward the calm behavior. I would recommend doing a little research on clicker training. That is what I'm doing with Nigel, and he has calmed a lot. I sort of try to "catch him being good" and reward that with food or scritches or other things he likes. It takes a bit of time, but its worth it because he will learn that bad behavior doesn't get him anything and good does.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> Get a squirt gun. Goats usually don't like water.


I started with that, but after a while, mine didn't care... My wether is just like the posters... I grabbed him by the horns today and twisted his head back hanging on to those horns and yelled no as I was walking him out of the pen... he is a butthead for sure.He makes sure the girls don't get in between me and them... and when it's food time, not funy... he is very possessive and he has never head butted me....I think I'd head butt him back LOL


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Arkie said:


> I suppose I'm a brutal, knuckle dragging hillbilly who might serve time if reported to some of the animal rights groups, but the first time ANY animal inflicted pain or injury to me or mine the memory of the thrashing they would receive (leaving no permanent damage) would last a lifetime. If there was a second incident, the lifetime would probably end up being pretty short.
> 
> Bob


I don't believe in ever beating animals, but I do know what you mean. I have ZERO tolerance for poor behavior, and they know it. I do not hit them, but I will use the ear method, and I will scold them something fierce if I have to.

The worst I've had to do is grab the ear and pull them for a few steps (much like you see in the movies when the teacher grabs the student by the ear  ) If they're being bad enough I don't let them pull away. I will then go get their collar and give them a nice lesson on leading, setting up, etc. This gives them a constructive outlet for their energy. And if they behave for the setting up, I get to praise them, and the situation can be turned into a positive one.


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## Bambi (Jun 10, 2012)

We had a similar problem with a wether we were given. I carried a riding crop and whacked him firmly on the nose when he would try to butt. It took about ten times,but he finally quit. He would butt humans,dogs, and the rest of the herd. I put horn covers over his horns because he was ripping large holes in all our other goats. Finally six months later, he never wears the horn protectors and never butts anything. In fact he tries to snuggle with everyone and loves to be petted.Hopefully this will help you with your problem wether. It just takes patience.


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## amy_rainbow (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice folks! Some great ideas which I pray work!!! Armed with Tennis balls (for horn covers) and a super squirter I hopefully will cure him!!!

Also, if anyone has any ideas about making my female pygmy more friendlier then ideas welcome! She is about 10 months old but is still very nervous and skittish around people. Took me weeks to even get her to trust me enough to touch her now she will only let me for about 1 minute! She is beautiful and I just want to snuggle her! Ideas welcome!!


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

Started having dominate issues with my Boer doe around her first birthday. Rancher told me to get a stick and hit her horns. They hate it. Amazing how fast she turned into a sweet polite lady. Our buck gets rambunctious at times but he knows what we do with sticks. Now he keeps he immediately calms down when we grab a stick. Yesterday we needed a shovel and the entire time we had a shovel in our hands, he kept his distance. Works like magic.


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## amy_rainbow (Nov 13, 2012)

Lol...will try a stick! Although I hope non of this frightens my little female goat more than she already is!!!


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## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

Sticks work wonders. Why do you think sheep and goat ranchers own sheperds staff? I have 3 big goats in one pen (stinky and 2 does). Stinky is greedy. he jumps on the gate and I yell OFF. Everyone knows what off means. Then I enter once he obeys. But he jumps up trying to get to the food. Having a long stick in my hand really comes in handy at keeping him from getting to close to me.


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## zubbycat (Oct 14, 2012)

Great advice about tennis balls for the horns. I'm going to do that with Nigel so he stops scraping the donkeys up.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I took some advice when my wether started pushing the girls away when I had food, I took a large stem (hard like a stick) and smacked his horns sideways, wow it worked he hasn't done it in my presence since yipee..


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## sbhministry (Oct 12, 2012)

Our buck is almost a year. He likes to push with his horns or hook them around our leg. The sharp points had to go when he scraped his mother. I used a PVC pipe cutter and removed 3/4" from each horn. Much more would make him bleed. We carry a 2' piece of plastic pipe. Once he learned we are the boss and we don't play goat games, he is much better. If he puts his head down we raise our pipe. He backs down. Food is a little tougher. We guard our does grain with a shovel. The trick is to threaten when we is tempted. This save him from getting a clang on the horns.


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## beautancus (May 24, 2011)

I have a 3yr old billy that has become so aggresive that I"m left with only two options. give him away or castrate him. He has knocked my girlfriend down several times even I have to tie him up every time Im in the fence with him. will castrating him make him less aggresive? he"s a big goat and could very easily hurt someone


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## KymberLeAnn (Sep 16, 2012)

Beautancus
If I were you I would start a new thread about this.
Castrating will calm him down a bit, but he definitely needs to learn who's boss.
I would carry a big stick with you when you're around him to knock his horns when he threatens you.
Or I've heard of others using squirt guns.


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## julieq (Feb 25, 2013)

None of our goats have horns, and none of the bucks (standard Nubians or little Nigerians) have ever shown that type of behavior. We just don't allow it. But we've always bought real friendly bottle raised kids and we bottle raise our own, so that may make a difference.

I need to buy another one, but we owned a little hand held 'zapper' at one time that was great for teaching stubborn does to get on the milk stand, or lead properly. I would think that a good zap in the nose would discourage a buck or wether from being aggressive also. Certainly works quicker than anything we've found, and we never had to be overly physical or abusive. 

But with those horns, I'm really worried he's going to hurt you.  Please be careful.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I hope the horned folks don't get mad at me, but, this is a real good reason why goats get disbudded as babies! 
Good luck with your squirtgun! I actually use a riding crop when the goats are getting rough- the leather bat on the 
end makes a loud noise, generally, smacking _my_ legs makes them behave! (Sounds silly, but it works!)


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Our buck, Buddy, has been aggressive lately. My daughter and I have taken to carrying the "Buddy Stick". If he acts aggressive towards us we bop him on the nose. Hitting his horns just makes him think it's challenge time. If he sees the stick he either stays clear or is a sweet boy.

My DH, son, and male roommate use a trick I read on another thread on this site. They push him over onto his side and then kneel on him til he goes limp. This has to be repeated every few days, but it keeps him in line.

Hope he gets better!


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## m57gonefishing (Jan 26, 2012)

Try to never grab the horns as good of a handle they make. This might be why he started. I've never had a problem with this and currently have 28 goats with 3 bucks, 8 wethers. Boer and Lamancha. I never touch their horns though and I don't let others either. I don't know if it would work but I've heard some old guys say they flip them on their back and hold them there proving your dominance and their sumbmission. Just a thought. Couldn't hurt to try before you get rid of him.


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## desertlily (Jul 22, 2011)

Our Nigerian buck started challenging my husband, so one day my DH just picked him up and dunked him in the cow's water barrel! He jumped up and sputtered around and has been much more respectful ever since!


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## spot (Jan 7, 2012)

I use a spray bottle with vinegar water to control my buck. twisting horns and tugging ears I use too if I don't have the bottle with me. but he sees this as a challenge and its only a very short win. after a wile he only needs to see the bottle and backs off.


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