# Getting the most from a FF



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

What is the best way to get the most milk? I know they will only produce so much depending on lineage but what i mean is, what is the best way to create a good "memory" for their udders?

My oldest doe was 4 when I got her and she seems to want to dry off in roughly 5 months even with additives such as MoMilk (her previous owner always dried her off after about 5 months)...would using MoMilk help my FF to produce more milk? Or would using that make her body accustomed to using it, and therefore she would require it to keep up the same level of production?

I would like to only milk 2 times a day instead of 3 since some days it will be impossible to milk her three times.I want to make her produce as much and as long as possible since I only have 2 does to milk I'd like her to continue after the other starts drying off.

Is it better to keep kids on a FF for longer? Or if she only has a single should I pull it and milk her myself? I would prefer her not to have a lopsided udder.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

With a first freshener, I have two methods to that.

1) If the have twins, leave them both on for 3 months (grain her enough to keep good condition while she is nursing and milking), then pull the kids. 
Milk her twice a day, exactly 12 hours apart is preferred. 3 months is going to be when the doe is at peak production, and when you separate the kids, she will be full, full, full of milk due to how much a pair of kids drink at that age, and milk is all about supply and demand (So don't skip a milking!). Now when she gets very "bagged up" from pulling the kids, her udder and teats will stretch, keep it moisturized with a balm or cream. Now that she's already been milking for 3 months, you want to milk her for another 7 months or so. The longer you keep them milking the more their body realizes it need to milk that much and that long.

2) If they have singles, or you want to stretch the udder as you go, or prevent the udder from being lopsided or have a more productive half, I pull the kids at birth an milk for 10 months.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Boy, I really hope she has twins...now are you saying I shouldn't milk her at all for the first 3 months if I leave the kids? Or can I pull them overnite and milk in the am?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well I personally don't milk at all the first 3 months, but you certainly can. I just prefer not to because the more they nurse the more she'll milk, and my goats are seemingly awake 24/7, lol.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh, critical thing here, make sure she does not have worms during lactation! A wormy goat doesn't milk well.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok,thanks Lacie..I'll wait a bit longer to milk her maybe,we'll see. But thanks for the tips!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I plan on deworming the day she kids and 10 days after that again.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I actually leave the kids and milk once a day. I have had several FFs that could feed their kids and still give a quart or 2 to me up until their kids were about 8 weeks old. I like to make that they are emptied completely once a day. I don't separate at night either. If I'm going to pull kids, I just do it and get it over with.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Jill...I am hoping to make her udder the best I can for what she gives me to work with. I am excited to see how she turns out. I never saw her parents as they were sold before I got her.The couple was retiring and wanted to sell off all their goats so they could travel more. All that was left was 3 kids.2 doelings and a buckling.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So, what do you guys think of giving her Molly's MoMilk? Would that help her to make more milk? Or should I wait and see...I am clueless as to what a FF nubian will give. I know it varies widely so it could be nothing or it could be a lot,right?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, Nubians can range from a quart a day to 2 1/2 gallons a day.

One thing to think about. FF have not built any capacity yet. That is what that first year is all about. If she makes too much and doesn't get milked out often enough, it can ruin her udder. This usually happens when you pull the kids and start milking completely. A good development program that first year can create an awesome strong milker that stands up to years of milking. A bad development program can cause blown teats, blown udder floors, stretched saggy attachments, etc. 

The young girl that I'm freshening this year is out of a dam that gave 2 gallons a day as 2 year old FF. She will be milked 3 times a day until her udder capacity catches up to her production. You won't need to do this because of leaving the kids on your doe. At least not until you pull the kids completely. At that point you may want to time it so that you can milk 3 times a day for a couple weeks if needed.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok, That makes sense...I am planning to leave the kids on her 24 hours a day for at least 2 weeks, if I can I may leave them on for 4 weeks, then start separating.
So given this info, you would not recommend MoMilk right?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would want to see how much she is going to make first. For the capacity reason and for my own knowledge of whether or not she's a good doe on her own.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

True, guess it's all a wait and see. I really hope I have a good one here. Heidi does ok, but she only gives a gallon a day at peak and dries off before I want her to. My family goes through a gallon a day roughly, and I have a friend who can't use cow products but can use my goats milk. 
Should I plan on milking 3 times a day? Like say 8-2-8? Would it help increase demand?I really want to keep her milking at least 8 months of the year.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It would create more demand but, every 8 hours is better. Mainly just don't let her strut her udder. A strutted udder tells the body to quit producing as much plus can damage it if it is tight for too long. You don't need to worry about it as long as the kids are on her during the day at least. 

Aim to milk for 10 months. Even if she slows way down, keep that demand up even if only milking once day that last month, and she will do better the next year. A doe isn't mature until 3 to 4 years old. That is when you really get to see what they've got. 

Nubians do tend to be a littler harder to keep going than the Swiss breeds. One of my crosses takes after the Nubian in this respect. She only gives about that gallon a day, is done at 10 months, and dries up within days when you quit milking. She has other things I like about her though. Gentle calm disposition, easy keeper, good feet, etc. When I keep a doeling from her here in a couple years, it will be thought out well to increase the milk production on the kid and still keep the other good things as well.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

It would have been nice if my saanen had been ready this year. I have seen growth on her but I am still not 100% satisfied. She gets 24/7 hay and 1c beet pulp,1c alfalfa and 1/2 c sweet every day. I have dewormed and used DiMethox 40 %(cocci treatment was when i first got her). She still looks kinda bony to me? Her growth as far as size has been ok, I think. I'm gonna get some newer pics and compare them to the ones when I first got her and post them to see what everyone thinks.

Anywho~ as far as my nubian, I will milk for ten months then.A "strutted" udder is really tight I am assuming?

Thanks so much,again Jill  You have helped me a lot and I appreciate it and so do my goats...I have some of the most healthy looking goats around thanks to TGS


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree with you there, some does don't even really come into their full potential until they are 6 even.
Lol, what I would give to have a doe that dries up within days of me stopping the milkings! It was a... rough time, shall we say, to get some of the does to dry up last year. And I think it may have messed up an udder as well...
You want an udder that is still pliable, and soft textured when she's full, you don't want her udder to feel like a brick wall. 
The brick wall feeling would be a strutted/bagged up udder, leave that to the show fanciers.

Can't help you on the Mo' Milk, never used it, don't know what it is.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ummm....well with your does, I can imagine you wouldn't know what it was!! :lol:

I hope mine is like yours


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

:laugh: I'm excited to see what they do this year, I'll know pretty soon though! 
<--- she's due in 11 days :greengrin:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

She's gorgeous....I would love to have some of yours but I wouldn't know what to do with prom Queens....lol...I'm used to my "rough side O' the tracks" girls  
I'd be afraid to try and milk such an udder!! :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

:ROFL: They are not for untoned arms that's for sure! Takes me a bit to build the muscles back every year, great for getting the arms you've always wanted though! :lol:
Prom Queens is a very accurate description 
I'm breeding my cows this year, I'm not looking forward to next year! 

For the milk production, try the beet pulp definitely, some people also have gotten as much as a 30% production increase when they feed a live active yeast culture to their goats and cows. Probio granules might help too.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How many cows? I hope you have a machine!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Just two, maybe 3, if I feel like yelling at myself later :lol: Nope, no machine!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow! Ok, so how many does are milked a day? (Remind me not to tick you off  ) :lol:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

5 does, twice a day, this year I may be adding some 2 year old does from my friends herd, and then I'd milking 6 or 7 
Next year however, I'm freshening all my doe kids from the 2013 season, so that will bring it up 5 more! (Plus I'm retaining some doe kids this year, and breeding them in the fall, so that's at least another 3)
:doh: I told myself never again, yet here I am.... if anyone is interested in some milkers next year, let me know, I may be willing to part with some! :lol:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Omgoodness....that's a lot o' milk! Where do you store it all?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I actually don't even drink it, neither does the family! :ROFL: So, it gets fed to calves, pigs, dogs, puppies, chickens, bottle kids, or if I'm really unlucky, a bottle foal.
If I have extra I freeze it for later, if something like mastitis happens and the doe can't feed the kids, or if one of the boers turned out to be a very poor producer, I'll just pull her kids and bottle feed.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok Lacie...are you kidding me?! :lol: You do all that for the animals?? That's too awesome :lol: 

Do you drink the cows milk?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, I do drink cows milk! :drool: :yum:

Everything gets so fat when the does are fresh :laugh: and the pigs & puppies get really shiny


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You've only got 14 more days till you get babies?! :wahoo: Babies everywhere :greengrin:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well, that's the first possible date  She has no udder to speak of yet.....but I hope it's sooner rather than later! I just hope the weather is better than today..........


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