# Wether dam doe. Opinions?



## Ella

Any opinions on this doe? 2 month old, 40 pound Boer wether dam doe


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Nice wide front, decent twist, thick through loin. Hard to say how long she is without any point of reference. What are you planning to use her for?


----------



## toth boer goats

I would like to see more length on her. Going by the picture.


----------



## Ella

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Nice wide front, decent twist, thick through loin. Hard to say how long she is without any point of reference. What are you planning to use her for?


to show


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

In wether classes, or breed stock classes like abga?


----------



## Ella

The wether dam doe class for does that judge their wether making ability .


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I agree with Pam. She may be a bit short bodied and wether maker dams need to be super long.


----------



## mariarose

loggyacreslivestock said:


> wether maker dams need to be super long.


May I ask why? I'm not challenging, but wanting to learn. I am completely ignorant on this.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Because when they judge the Wethers they want long wide loins in them. So a lot of wether dams and bucks are super long. I have an example of a beautiful doe that would make great wethers.


----------



## LibertysBoerGoatRanch

With the way wether breeders are breeding them now they almost look like sheep you want them super long and tubular. Still carrying the mass through out. I personally don't like it but if you wanting to win in the ring loggyacreslivestcok is right that's a perfect example of a mature wether dam doe.


----------



## toth boer goats

loggyacreslivestock is correct.


----------



## mariarose

LibertysBoerGoatRanch said:


> I personally don't like it but if you wanting to win in the ring loggyacreslivestcok is right that's a perfect example


What would you prefer, and why?


----------



## Jessica84

mariarose said:


> May I ask why? I'm not challenging, but wanting to learn. I am completely ignorant on this.


See that was my question way back when! A long doe will have more of a chance of becoming sway back if she is so long. But liberty is right if you want to raise show Wethers you want long does


----------



## Davon

Forgive my ignorance, but I always call my castrated males wethers, so how do you have a wether dam doe?onder:


----------



## Jessica84

Davon said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but I always call my castrated males wethers, so how do you have a wether dam doe?onder:


It's actually a doe that will (should) produce show Wethers because of her build. I know totally confusing! And in all honesty all does should have the same desired build but it seems they do not. I'm not into showing so someone else could explain it better


----------



## LibertysBoerGoatRanch

mariarose said:


> What would you prefer, and why?


I prefer the "old style" Boer goats. They are stockier stand on more bone the bucks chest aren't smooth and clean they have wrinkles and they look masculine. You can tell first glance which one the buck is and which one the doe is. The bucks have that traditional buck head and like I said look masculine. 
Now your does or thick made as well but their feminine they have a touch longer neck their faces daintier there ear set is beautiful. They have a good length to them they have good bone they stand on. 
In all honesty what's been bread in the weather industry right now are copycat lambs. You compare your bucks to a ram and they look the same just the goats have horns. If I wanted to raise sheep I'd be in the sheep industry lol. If I knew there was such a division in the boer world I don't think I would've started out with them. I love them now so I don't think I'd change but I don't think I'm going to be as big into them as I thought I was. 
It's not just the wether industry either ABGA is leaning more towards what the wether industry is breeding as well.

Here are some pictures I took from Google all of these goats are beautiful goats I'm not bashing any particular breeder or style of goat just providing examples of the two different styles. 
The first picture is an example of the in style buck and the second is "old style" 
.

















The top two examples are the in style weather dam/ABGA Boer does and the last one is your old style.


----------



## LibertysBoerGoatRanch

Jessica84 said:


> See that was my question way back when! A long doe will have more of a chance of becoming sway back if she is so long. But liberty is right if you want to raise show Wethers you want long does


I've seen some people say this as well. But if it the animal has good shoulders and carries itself well then you shouldn't have any more problems dipping behind the shoulders as they age as any other shorter bodied doe. But heck that's just me guessing. I think they've ruined the breed but that's what happens when the people with money come out to play.


----------



## goat girls

Ella said:


> Any opinions on this doe? 2 month old, 40 pound Boer wether dam doe
> View attachment 124835


I like her wide chest and back. Please post a picture of her entire body so we can see how her head blends with the rest of her body when she is bred I would pair her with a long backed buck


----------



## mariarose

I know that long bodied horses and dogs tend to have spinal issues.

@LibertysBoerGoatRanch That was just an amazing visual. Thanks so much!

PS I agree with your preferences 100%.


----------



## Ella

I don't have a one without her being braced but here is another photo when she was a few weeks younger. She was stretched out in this photo.


----------



## goat girls

I like her straight back her neck blends with her shoulder well Some photos of her standing naturly in her pen would be nice if you get the chance,


----------



## Ella

Samamtha said:


> I like her straight back her neck blends with her shoulder well Some photos of her standing naturly in her pen would be nice if you get the chance,


Ok I'll try to get some this week


----------



## goat girls

great that should help and beside who doesn't like showing of their goats boy I just looked at the clock all you crazy goat people are keeping me upIf I didn't have to take a road trip tomorrow I'd stay up that being said I'm going to do some of this now


----------



## toth boer goats

When viewing a goat, I like goats in their natural state, as posing them sometimes fakes the true values and distorts some flaws.


----------



## Ella

Bad quality photo but that's her not braced.


----------



## goat girls

Longer back is the only thing that I don't see. If you breed her, breed her to a long backed buck


----------



## toth boer goats

I really like her, she appears to have good length.


----------



## mariarose

Honestly? I think you should give her to me and start over.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I like her much better in the natural stance.


----------



## Goat_Scout

I agree. In that last picture she looks much nicer! Very pretty girl!


----------



## Jessica84

I like her a lot more there too!


----------



## Goatzrule

Whats a wether dam doe? Sorry i dont do meat goats, just curious


----------



## mariarose

Post #15 on this thread has a very good explanation by Jessica84


----------



## Goatzrule

I must have missed that one


----------



## goatblessings

Also, dairy person trying to learn.... what do you mean by "twist"?


----------



## Jessica84

goatblessings said:


> Also, dairy person trying to learn.... what do you mean by "twist"?


It's hard to explain but you can see it better on a buck. Here are some arrows to show what the twist is on a buck, basically It's the section between their butt cheeks lol









The idea behind that is the bigger/ longer the twist the bigger the butt


----------



## Goatzrule

Ive never heard of that, interesting


----------



## mariarose

Jessica84 said:


> The idea behind that is the bigger/ longer the twist the bigger the butt


Those pics made me understand better than I ever could before.


----------



## goatblessings

Thanks so much! I will be looking at boer butts in an entirely new way!


----------



## Jessica84

I remember someone trying to explain it to me and I was like huh!? Lol actually I think it was Toth who got threw to me on explaining it lol
As soon as I found out about this twist thing I turned into a total boer butt looker lol every time I learn something new I zero in on it.


----------



## LibertysBoerGoatRanch

I *think* with the dairy goats the twist would be referred to by the escutcheon? No, maybe?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

LibertysBoerGoatRanch said:


> I *think* with the dairy goats the twist would be referred to by the escutcheon? No, maybe?


The escutcheon is the arch above the udder. I don't think we have a name for the twist.


----------



## toth boer goats

All great advice, I like big butts and I cannot lie, HeHe. :haha: Jessica described it well. 

We focus on some of the weirdest things when it comes to goats. But that big twist, when you know about it, is really a good thing and it looks good on them.


----------



## mariarose

toth boer goats said:


> I like big butts and I cannot lie,


OMG! That is exactly the line I heard when I read this.


----------



## toth boer goats

:haha:


----------

