# Adding Anatolian Shepherds to the Farm



## KW Farms

We've been having a huge problem with coyotes this year. Over the summer, my chickens have slowly disappeared, two turkeys have been killed, several kids disappeared, and just yesterday I went out to feed and found one of my beautiful does killed and mostly eaten. Coyote prints in the snow and i've been finding coyote scat around the pens. I think it's time to up my security and get a couple LGDs. I've got guard llamas and they do a great job, but if anything gets out of the pens like this doe, the llamas can't do anything. I'm thinking a dog will be more threatening and hopefully help keep them away just by barking.

Someone I know heard about the issue i'm having and offered her beautiful anatolian shepherd to me so i've already got one dog lined up and thinking a second will be good. Since it's a male, i'm thinking a female. 

Anyway, i'm exciting to take this adventure into LGDs and see how it goes. I think the anatolians will be perfect. I'd love to hear your thoughts and tips on introducing a new dog to the herd. Any and all advice is welcome. I haven't had a LGD for some time so need to update my knowledge!


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## fishin816

Anatolian a would be MUCH more threating to a coyote than a llama. Anatolians are fast, muscular dogs. They are more aggressive than a pyrenees but are VERY smart and human friendly. Are you thinking about getting a male and a female? If u do this you need to get one of them fixed. Two of them work much better for fighting off more than one coyote. If the coyotes are causing you a major problem now, a puppy wouldn't work. Introducing them to the herd..... You will need to put them in a stall or a pen neighboring the goats, so they can get used to each other. Let them get used to each other and then start letting them out together SUPERVISED. They may be a little harder to introduce to your llamas. The llamas will be aggressive to the dogs if they haven't ever been around them. 

Anatolians are beautiful dogs and they would be a HUGE deterrent to those coyotes.


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## nancy d

Yes supervised time with the goats but first in a separate area where they can see each other. My girls freaked out when Sheriff first got here as a 10 week old. I think it was a good couple of weeks before they were comfortable with his presence.
And he didn't get 24/7 duty till he was able to be trusted. Even then we had issues.
But I will say this. At around 10 mos old we had a cougar in the hood.
Sheriff was in the pen next to the goats but I found him in with them the morning after the cat had been spotted.
That's when we added back up.


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## milk and honey

I love my Anatolian! He's just over a year but learned quickly and is a very good guardian. He's also very people friendly after he's been introduced.


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## KW Farms

Thank you all for the info.!

How long does it generally take or how long did it take your puppies from being supervised only with the goats to being trustworthy enough to stay with them without supervision? At about what age did you start trusting them?

I'm getting a year old male who is already guarding a herd of nigerians. How long do you think it will take for him to get settled in? What is the best way to get him used to my herd? 

Also, I found a female puppy i'll be getting as well. She's 9 weeks. The breeder thinks it's best for them to be kept separate and I agree that until they get used to each other, they'll be kept apart. Any thoughts on introducing them?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate any help you guys can give me!


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## KW Farms

Bump!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I would like to add one here at some point too.. But.. I don't know much.. I know that Lucky*Star Farm has them.. And so does Logan/Freedomstar Farm.. Maybe contact one of them? Sorry your having problems


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## milk and honey

That's very exciting!!! A lot depends on their temperaments... Some are aggressive and others (like mine) love people and other dogs....I would guess that working with them and slow introductions will give you many answers. My pup was able to be with his own goats at around 6 months but he needed corrections for playing with them ...still does occasionally.. :/ 
He's a year old now. He's the smartest nicest dog I've ever owned, and a very good protector too!


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## ksalvagno

You will have to post pics when you get them!


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## KW Farms

Well here is the puppy i'm getting...


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## CAjerseychick

I think it will be hard for the puppy to not have a dog friend, they naturally go to the other dog, especially coming from a litter of pups... What is the breeder's thinking? And for how long seperate? Is it because the adult dog will be outside during winter weather? Maybe bring puppy into shelter at night then back out during the day? Is that the plan?....
We have 1 LGD who mingles with our house dogs (and he enjoys his dog pack but def knows his job is guarding- he stays up at night to do the job...)....


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## CAjerseychick

She is adorable by the way.
A similar situation we had with older dog/ new pup-- was back when we had Boxers, we had a 1 year old male who was dog aggressive and reactive (mainly to males) well we went out to get a female, so he would have company and that first night we let her out of her crate, she ran right to him on his dog bed (she was 8 weeks, from a litter of 11) and snuggled into his belly just a pup would do to a mama dog, he looked startled but accepted her and they were bonded from that night, even ate from the same bowl...


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## KW Farms

Thank you. The breeder said the older one I am getting will crush the puppy's temperament into submission and that i'd lose her potential that way. He said she's very dominant. I understand what he is saying, but these two will be together eventually working as a team. One is going to be dominant and one will be more submissive, that's just how it works. Since I don't know these dogs and they'll arrive on the same day, I do want to get to know them a little and let them get used to their new home before I introduce them. Maybe a few days? I want to make sure they're supervised with each other and introduce them gradually so everyone is safe. But I think they'll make a great team.


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## CAjerseychick

KW Farms said:


> Thank you. The breeder said the older one I am getting will crush the puppy's temperament into submission and that i'd lose her potential that way. He said she's very dominant. I understand what he is saying, but these two will be together eventually working as a team. One is going to be dominant and one will be more submissive, that's just how it works. Since I don't know these dogs and they'll arrive on the same day, I do want to get to know them a little and let them get used to their new home before I introduce them. Maybe a few days? I want to make sure they're supervised with each other and introduce them gradually so everyone is safe. But I think they'll make a great team.


Oh a few days sounds reasonable...
Didnot realize you were getting them same day, I would get one before the other and settle the first one in/ get to know them...
( I am guessing that cannot be helped...)...?
Puppies are weaker, and in that respect are more submissive, but as they age, dominance comes out regardless of age. 
My giant schnauzer puppy totally dominated my Boxer terribly all the last years of her life .... It came out pretty early on....
glad you are getting a pair though, so much better for fighting off the predators...


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## ksalvagno

KW Farms said:


> Well here is the puppy i'm getting...


She is just way too cute!


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## nancy d

You just never know. Sheriff was full grown when the pup Deputy came on duty.
He became top dog in a matter of weeks.


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## KW Farms

CAjerseychick said:


> Oh a few days sounds reasonable...
> Didnot realize you were getting them same day, I would get one before the other and settle the first one in/ get to know them...
> ( I am guessing that cannot be helped...)...?
> Puppies are weaker, and in that respect are more submissive, but as they age, dominance comes out regardless of age.
> My giant schnauzer puppy totally dominated my Boxer terribly all the last years of her life .... It came out pretty early on....
> glad you are getting a pair though, so much better for fighting off the predators...


Yes, they are quite a drive away and both owners are willing to meet us half way in the same town so it just kind of worked out that way. I agree, ideally, i'd like to get one settled in and then get the second, but being far away, it's easier to make one trip...especially with the weather.



> She is just way too cute!


Thank you! 



> You just never know. Sheriff was full grown when the pup Deputy came on duty.
> He became top dog in a matter of weeks.


:laugh: That's funny. Maybe this puppy will be like that. We have an older jack russell dog and got a new JR puppy this year and she was bossy right away and is definitely the more dominant dog.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

She is so cute Kylee!! Hope they do well for you!


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## KW Farms

Thanks Skyla! I'm excited to get them!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I bet!  you planning on breeding them at some point or no? 

If we had more space, I would love to have a LGD! One day..


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## KW Farms

Wasn't really planning on it. I guess that's something to think about. I would want them to be good minded, proven guards before I considered it. I also need a lot more LGD experience and breed knowledge.


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## motdaugrnds

*....take it slow....*

You're getting some really great LGDs. Congratulations.

You also have a lot on your plate, i.e. the llamas will need to be accepting of the dogs as well as the dogs of those llamas.

The little pup needs to feel safe! If you can introduce your older Anatolian to the pup in a way that keeps the pup feeling safe, all will be good!

I am one who believes in taking time to do it right the first go around! Thus, if I were in your shoes, I would START with the llamas instead of the livestock your llamas guard. If those llamas will not accept your LGDs, you're going to have problems. So get ALL the protectors to agree to work with each other. I would probably spend more time on this than anything else at first! (That and keeping the pup safe while it "explores".)

I'd also let that pup bond with that older Anatolian because it will be learning from the older one. As the pup grows, if it has not been hurt, the 2 may get into it and determine which will be dominant....sobeit! Let it happen! They need to work together (with the llamas) to take care of your stock.

I would sure be interested in knowing how this goes for you. The process is going to be so interesting too. Maybe you can put the entire experience in eBook form.


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## KW Farms

Thank you for the advice. I actually have someone coming to get my four llamas this Sunday so that won't be an issue. I already thought that would be a problem since the llamas are not good with dogs and that's how they should be. I didn't want them desensitized to the dogs. I thought finding them a new home would be the best and easiest thing for everyone. As difficult as that is, because I do love and appreciate my llamas. I found someone that needs his flock of sheep guarded and he's taking the family of four llamas so that will be great that they're staying together.

If for some reason that doesn't work out, I would move the llamas to my sheep pen.


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## nancy d

Sheriff & Dep still get into semi serious scuffles now & then. One day I thought they were out to kill each other. They can be pretty brutal but I just watched. It only lasted a minute.
Nice looking!


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## KW Farms

Well the llamas are sold. They went off to their new home today. So sad to see them leave, but gosh, they went to such a nice family. The llamas will have a little flock of sheep to guard and now i'll be able to easily introduce LGDs to the herd. Looking forward to bringing them home!


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## Trickyroo

Good luck with your new dogs ! Sounds like you already have a nice plan in place . The pup is just adorable 
Love to see the older one too


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## KW Farms

The older dog actually belongs to TGS member MAW. We worked out a goat/dog trade!  I will ask her for permission to post a photo of him.


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## TOU

Not to highjack too much but I would love a LGD as well (Specifically I had decided on an Anatolian also.) and would like to pick the brains of those of you that have guard Llamas & LGD's on a few things. 

First, I live on the edge of the mountains in Northern Utah...I actually live on the mountain at the base t 5200 ft. Second, I do not own the property (16 acres) where I keep my pack goats (2) who are hornless but 180+ lbs and still growing. In the spring, I will be getting 4 six weeks kids to raise. I also have a 14 month old Springer Spaniel that accompanies me feeding my goats and on all hikes, camping trips but would not on deer/elk trips; she gets along with my goats but goes home with me. There are definitely coyotes but I have not had a problem yet. There have been cats on occasion but none seen on the property yet but they are a possibility.

Next, the nice 70 year old lady that owns the property and lives on premises, also has free ranging rabbits that she set free an loves the deer that constantly visit nearly every night. She also has her kids and grand kids that visit on occasion. I have permission for farm animals but do not think that extends to a LGD. My goats are mainly there to help with fire control and weed control...for that I get free access to the property, water barn, corrals, & stalls. 

So that said, as much as I would like one I think a LGD is out regardless as to how friendly they can be...I just can't control the variables or the property access. A LGD could pose a threat to people I can't "introduce", it would likely pose a threat to the rabbits I imagine & would chase off the deer...and probably my Springer? So what to do as I am starting to think I will need something???

This thread is making me think about llamas...not desire to pack them, just for guard duty. Especially so as I see llamas in the classifieds for $100 or less...even free to a good home. So are ALL llamas naturally guards? Do they ever have issues with goats or will they ALL bond enough to guard them? Can I some how keep them with just my young kids as it seems like my big boys seem to concern the existing coyotes or something? 

Please educate me...thx in advance.

TOU


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## nchen7

Kylee, that puppy is SOO CUTE! good luck with the introductions. can't wait to hear the updates.


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## motdaugrnds

TOU, those are good questions and deserve a thread of their own. The OP here may not mind your getting answers here, and, of course that is ok too. I would suggest you post that again starting a new thread about using "llamas" in your situation...maybe even mini-donkeys, as I've heard they are good guards too and would probably not pose the problems an LGD would in your situation.


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## Lydia_the_goat

With the puppy you need to make sure that she will be good around the goats. I know someone who has a anatolian and he was 3 before he calmed down. He was a bomb waiting to blow.


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## KW Farms

Thank you for the replies everyone! Today we have some nice "warm" weather so i'm getting the temporary dog pen up. Coming along nicely. Here is "Hoot" who will be joining us soon. He's the lighter one.


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## KW Farms

And here's a new one of the puppy. I'm considering naming her Holler. Get it...Hoot and Holler. :laugh:


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## nancy d

Both nice lookin dogs, love the names!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Beautiful dogs! Love the names :laugh:


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## Trickyroo

Oh I love them ! All of them are really nice  The names are great , definitely stick with them , lol. The dogs look so well taken care of , such pretty pups


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## nchen7

great names!!!! dogs are super cute!!!!


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## motdaugrnds

*...couple of creative names...*

Beautiful dogs with great names. You must keep us informed as to how they grow on your place....


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## TOU

Dang they are beautiful! Sure wished I could also add one to my goats. Congrats!


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## TOU

motdaugrnds said:


> TOU, those are good questions and deserve a thread of their own. The OP here may not mind your getting answers here, and, of course that is ok too. I would suggest you post that again starting a new thread about using "llamas" in your situation...maybe even mini-donkeys, as I've heard they are good guards too and would probably not pose the problems an LGD would in your situation.


Thx, I will do that. I know people have guard donkeys but liked the thoughts of the llamas browsing the owners property like my goats do. Still thinking...sure wished I could get an Anatolian or Kangal.


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## CAjerseychick

Great photos they look like a good pair- that pup is just gorgeous.... Wow .... keep us updated on their progress....


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## KW Farms

Thanks everyone! I will put updates in this thread so you all can stay posted on how they do. :thumb:



> Not to highjack too much but I would love a LGD as well (Specifically I had decided on an Anatolian also.) and would like to pick the brains of those of you that have guard Llamas & LGD's on a few things.
> 
> First, I live on the edge of the mountains in Northern Utah...I actually live on the mountain at the base t 5200 ft. Second, I do not own the property (16 acres) where I keep my pack goats (2) who are hornless but 180+ lbs and still growing. In the spring, I will be getting 4 six weeks kids to raise. I also have a 14 month old Springer Spaniel that accompanies me feeding my goats and on all hikes, camping trips but would not on deer/elk trips; she gets along with my goats but goes home with me. There are definitely coyotes but I have not had a problem yet. There have been cats on occasion but none seen on the property yet but they are a possibility.
> 
> Next, the nice 70 year old lady that owns the property and lives on premises, also has free ranging rabbits that she set free an loves the deer that constantly visit nearly every night. She also has her kids and grand kids that visit on occasion. I have permission for farm animals but do not think that extends to a LGD. My goats are mainly there to help with fire control and weed control...for that I get free access to the property, water barn, corrals, & stalls.
> 
> So that said, as much as I would like one I think a LGD is out regardless as to how friendly they can be...I just can't control the variables or the property access. A LGD could pose a threat to people I can't "introduce", it would likely pose a threat to the rabbits I imagine & would chase off the deer...and probably my Springer? So what to do as I am starting to think I will need something???
> 
> This thread is making me think about llamas...not desire to pack them, just for guard duty. Especially so as I see llamas in the classifieds for $100 or less...even free to a good home. So are ALL llamas naturally guards? Do they ever have issues with goats or will they ALL bond enough to guard them? Can I some how keep them with just my young kids as it seems like my big boys seem to concern the existing coyotes or something?


Not all llamas will guard. Some are horrible at it. You have to really do your research and take your time looking. They should be raised with goats and have good guarding instinct. There are some breeders out there who specialize in guarding llamas. They can get expensive, but the ones that will guard are valuable and hard to find. It's just like finding a LGD. Lots of breeders out there breeding for guarding purposes and then other breeders are breeding for show or pets so there is a difference in the guarding ability.

My llamas were bonded to my herd. I had an adult breeding pair, their three year old daughter, and then a weanling male cria who would have been sold after weaning. I had the two oldest llamas for almost five years and they never had issues with the goats. Always very gentle, even with newborn kids, they would go up and nuzzle them and watch over them. They are very very good. I never had a goat injured by one of the llamas. Not all llamas are like this, but find the right llamas and yes, you can keep them with all of your goats. From young kids to adult bucks. Mine would stay with any of them.

I also would recommend at least a pair. They are more confident and work a lot better in pairs.

Had we not had such a huge coyote population here, my llamas would have been great. Well, they worked great for five years, but the coyote population has become much larger over the last year. If the goats go over to the neighbors field (I open the gate), their fence is weak in places and that's where the kids or adults could get out. They usually didn't, but occasionally one would find a weak spot. Kids and adults that would sneak out in past years would be okay. The property border is pretty much fenced except for one area so it used to not be an issue, but with the coyotes getting thick and especially hungry during the winter, they come in there at night and snatch up the escaped kids I believe and most recently, an adult doe. The poor chickens got taken too and then one day I forgot to put the turkeys away for the night, they free range, and later that night/early morning, they got killed. I needed something that would be more threatening. Coyotes and roaming dogs are much more cautious around a big, barking dog or two then llamas. And physically if a predator were to get inside the pen, a llama can only do so much. Dogs would hopefully have the courage to kill a predator that got in. That is my biggest fear, if something was to find a way into my pens. Hasn't happened yet, but with the recent attacks, i'm afraid something like that very well may happen.


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## KW Farms

They're home! They are settling in so well and are just the sweetest dogs. The goats are a bit unsure, but are starting to get used to them already. I'm just thrilled with them both and am so impressed with their temperaments.


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## Lydia_the_goat

They are SO cute!!!!!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Adorable!!  I want one so badly! Lol!


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## milk and honey

They are beautiful! Congrats on getting them home...what a nice Christmas present! Have fun !


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## nchen7

they're beautiful!!! I love the picture with the goats in background, suspiciously eyeballing the dog.


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## motdaugrnds

OMG What magneficient looking dogs. Congratulations KW


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## dance4emily

So cute


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