# Why is she shivering on the milk stand?



## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

At first I thought she was cold, so we moved the milk stand from a three sided garage to a draft free enclosed garage AND turn on a heater while we are milking, but she still shivers as soon as she gets up on the milkstand, while she is being milked and only stops after milking is all done and she is off the stand. Could she be in some sort of pain during milking? She doesn't act in pain in any other way. The only other problem we are having is that she is eating very little...like 4 cups of feed a day! (free choice orchard and alfalfa, loose minerals, water). What can I do to get her to eat more? She is a FF, and only getting 6 oz at each milking 12 hours apart. Should I milk her a third time during the day to try to get production up? She is 1 1/2 weeks post kidding, and her babies are being bottle fed whole cow's milk, so she is not feeding them at all. She is a lamancha....12 oz of milk a day just seems ridiculously low.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

One of my does was struggling on the stand during treatment and fell off, landed upside down with her head still stuck in the head gate. I got her released quickly but it was months before she stopped shivering when she was on the stand. It was over two years ago and she still gets very worked up if we doing anything other than milk her on the stand. 

Did anything like this happen to your girl?


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

That is not good, sounds to me (mind you I am a newbie...) she isn't feeling well, rumen is off. Did she get into something that could have made her sick? How is her temp? Does she act normal when not on the stand? How long ago did she kid? I know my husband sometimes just feels like he needs so spoil my goats, which is fine when I'm not milking, but he likes to give them all a little grain, well then she eats on the stand also (he does not tell me until I mention they are off....) so the next day they don't eat their grain because the rumen was upset with the extra grain. Does not bother the other goats because I don't milk them so that is all they got. A picture might help.


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

So maybe the shivering is a stress reaction? Maybe since this is her first freshening and she is new to this? She hasn't had any bad experiences on the stand...like falling off that I know of....I guess I should ask my husband about the times when he has done the milking to see if there have been any negative experiences.

She has not had any other grain/treats anything other than hay the rest of the day. Gets milked and fed her grain/pellets at 7:30am and 7:30pm, so we are on a good schedule. She was dewormed after kidding. 

I'll have to go get a temp on her, but she seems pretty normal acting other than not eating enough to keep up her milk production.


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Oh...one thought. Her right teat, the orifice seems to be smaller than the other. Milk will come out but at a much slower rate than the left teat. Could that be painful? No bloody, stringy milk or anything....just a slow-flow right teat.


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

the orifice may just be smaller. i e you tested her for mastitis? one of my does that was her only symptom decreased milk production.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

If she's not eating normally, then there is something else going on. When did the eating problem start? Which happened first, the eating prob. or the shivering?


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

They both started at the same time. Her appetite was not good after delivery.....wouldn't drink molasses water. She seemed stressed to be without her babies (pulled for CAE prevention). She was dewormed and then she began eating more and more but it has plateaued at about 4 cups total pellets/grain per day. The first time we put her on the milking stand after delivery she shivered (she had been on the stand before for hoof trimmings and a pre-delivery shave and no issues). I assumed she was shivering that first day because she was cold, had lost heat from birthing, etc...so after that we moved to a much warmer location with the heater, etc. But the shivering has continued. Could she still be stressed from kidding and not having her babies around?


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

I have a doe who has been milked for over 2 years now, and she almost always shivers on the stand. She's just a nervous girl. She is totally fine otherwise, but for some reason she gets nervy on the milk stand. Nothing has ever happened to her up there, but it just sets her to shivering. I often put a blanket over her back while I milk her just because she seems to feel more secure when I do.

Could your doe simply be satisfied with the 4 cups? If she has enough hay and everything else she needs, is she just content with that amount of grain? I admit, most goats are little piggies and will eat themselves sick given the opportunity, but I've seen exceptions to that general statement. If her poo is normal, her temp is normal, and she's eating and drinking, I wouldn't get too worked up at this point. Just keep your eyes open and be aware of any changes that could cause you concern. It sounds like you're doing everything right. 

It's pretty normal for orifices to vary in size. The amount of milk does seem a little low, but that could be genetics or maybe she is consuming energy gaining strength following kidding. She most likely will increase her production over the next few weeks.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

The fact that she started this after kidding, just 1.5 weeks ago, makes me wonder if she has ketosis. This would explain the shivering, lack of appetite and the milk production drop. (Do you think this is shivering, or could it be muscle spasms?)


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Oh thanks GoatieGranny for that info....maybe she is just nervous on the milkstand! Hadn't thought of that as a possibility. She does seem fine as soon as she's off it. I will try the blanket idea to see if she feels more secure that way. She does seem content with 4 cups per day...I had just read that goats need so much more when they are in milk, but now that I think about it, right after kidding she of course seemed really thin and since then she now looks very good (filled out more), so it certainly could be that all that food is going back into getting her back to her normal condition! I can see her out my window happily chewing her cud right now. I will just keep an eye on her and keep my fingers crossed for increased production


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Erin, we must have posted at the same time. That did cross my mind, but she only shivers on the stand....as soon as I turn her back out to pasture the shivering stops. And I do think it is more shivering instead of spasming. I have also smelled her urine (yep, gross I know) to see if it smells sweet and it does not, so I've been leaning away from thinking it was ketosis.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Hmm... what's her behavior like out in the pasture? Is she browsing, etc.? Is she hanging out with other goats? Hey, I don't think smelling the urine is gross. Ya' gotta' do that stuff sometimes! Speaking of urine, you could get some ketone strips from the drug store and test for that.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I just found something that is very important- this is from another forum, and apparently shivering on the milkstand is a symptom of ketosis- here is the post, and its direct link following:

Can we have a sticky please? This comes up so much, I myself have lost a doe to it because I just ASSUMED it was something trivial. What signs to watch for, the causes, treatment.

What I know:
-Act quickly. Your doe is not just walking funny because she is fat and pregnant. No matter how big they are, they should never FALL. And if your goat goes down, the outlook isn't good. (IMO)
-Check your does over regularly. Watch for swollen ankles, painful feet/legs.
-Especially watch your goats if you have recently switched to a new feed.
-When introducing a pregnant goat to grain in late pregnancy, gradually increase to milk-stand rations, rather than starting off at full amount.
-If your goat is shivering on the milk stand, do not ASSUME your goat is chilly. Check for other signs of milk fever.
-Teeth grinding means pain. Find out why they are in pain.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/477221-toxemia-ketosis-hypocalcemia-sticky.html


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Here is one more link mentioning this. Read on down to where it says "Clinical Signs" & "Prevention" Shivering after milking= low calcium
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/milkfever.htm


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Oh gosh, thanks! I'm going to check this out! She is browsing and chewing her cud and seems pretty content. I haven't noticed any stumbling, she is definitely pooping and peeing. She does have alfalfa hay free choice, but it doesn't look like she is super interested in it. Maybe she does need more calcium. Still wasn't able to get a temp on her yet because apparently my thermometer froze in this cold weather.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I would begin treating her now for toxemia, before symptoms and her condition gets worse. Remember, unless you fix the feed problem, you will continue to have problems with toxemia or ketosis. Right now she is getting too much phosphorus, and too little calcium. Grain=phosphorus You need to feed 3:1, calcium to phosphorus. Offer her as much alfalfa as possible- if your hay is heavier on orchard grass hay than alfalfa, therein lies a problem. She needs all alfalfa, because that is what we feed for the calcium.
Personally, I would treat her with a CMPK drench and propylene glycol.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Fiasco recommends tums, and tums are better than nothing but CMPK is better. CMPK provides balanced minerals, not just calcium. Figure a cow dose is for 1000lbs and divide by what your goat weighs to figure out a goat dose. 

Propylene glycol (nutridrench) is also safe to try and lifesaving if she needs it. It's a good idea to give probiotics when using propylene glycol. 

I like Vitamin B too - it's excreted if she doesn't need it, helps if her rumen is off, and can stimulate appetite. Also, if it's cold there, offer warm water and make sure it's clean. My lamanchas are absolute sticklers for clean water and they won't drink if it's a little dirty or if it's too cold.


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## guessa1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Okay, I'm going to go take out her orchard grass hay...she actually has both.. one is orchard grass and then another basket of hay is just straight alfalfa. But she tends to eat the orchard grass rather than the alfalfa. Same with alfalfa pellets on the milk stand....she tends to nose those aside and only go for the grain pellets. I will give her some tums right away to start.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

My first instinct would be to get some calcium into her, either by injection or orally.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its common for a nervous doe to do that AND can also happen when coming in from the cold outside to a heated barn. Its the temp difference that sets the shacking off. In either case, not much of a worry. If its nerves, you can bring her in many times a day to get her more used to it. Pet and reassure her.


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