# Help! What is this?



## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I went outside this morning and I found this on the side of my does head. What is this? Please tell me it's something not major....Lord please! I need the truth though regardless.  Why why why. Always something it seems.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Has she been tested for CL?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have the pus tested.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

It is an abscess. It is possible that she got an injury - a thorn stab, for instance - and the wound developed an abscess. In that case it can be lanced and she may possibly need some antibiotics and all will be well.

Or it could be CL, which is highly problematic and very contageous if the pus gets on anything on your farm.

Please take her to your vet and have it lanced and diagnosed ASAP so you know what you're dealing with...


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

It is an abscess. It is possible that she got an injury - a thorn stab, for instance - and the wound developed an abscess. In that case it can be lanced and she may possibly need some antibiotics and all will be well.

Or it could be CL, which is highly problematic and very contageous if the pus gets on anything on your farm.

Please take her to your vet and have it lanced and diagnosed ASAP so you know what you're dealing with...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think it is CL, and it is close to opening. I don't think you have time to research this before you infect your pens/shelter. Take her to the vet and tell them you think it is CL, so they know to take proper precautions in cleaning it out. When you bring her home, keep her apart, keep it flushed with iodine, and start researching.

She's very pretty, love her coloring.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I can't believe this?!!! She has been separated. Any other info please?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/circ...itis/caseous-lymphadenitis-of-sheep-and-goats

http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Here's a really good article.

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0085/index2.tmpl

Let me add that there are conflicting views on how to deal with CL. Some people will cull any animal that has CL. Others close their herd (it is unethical to sell kids from an infected herd!) and try to keep their animals safe and happy for the rest of their lives.

So in addition to reading the article, you'll need to make management decisions. It will depend on many factors. What is your "why" for owning goats? Are they pets? If so, then you may consider keeping her and trying to manage the disease.

Are you looking to breed and sell babies? Are you trying start a dairy? Are you hoping to sell meat? Then you might consider culling her.

Hopefully your vet will have some good info and advice for you.

(((((Hugs)))))


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh, and there is currently a great thread here on TGS regarding someone who is looking at managing CL in her herd. Here's the link: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f182/come-read-about-idiot-192877/


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I will not sell her unknown of her condition like they did to me. These goat people have​ left me blind several times now and I think I should let their names known. I'm tird of staying quiet so these people proceed to benefit off of bad sales!!!


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I haven't had time yet to research and decide to keep her or put her down. More advise is welcome please.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Before you panic, I would take the previous advice - take her to the vet and have her tested. If she is positive, I would personally cull her, and then test the rest of my herd.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You need to have the pus tested first.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Okay, thank you. Boy oh boy I really hope the good Lord is with us on this one. Prayerful people pray for her please.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

You know- paper work means nothing these days because she showed me the testing paperwork. This was my first doe, and it couldn't be from here. Because I was starting my herd over, from a family move, battle and disfunction long story short....so I know the seller knew.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

....it's all coming together now though because she never gave a copy of testing. Everything but. I really didn't want to put her business out there but when I got there they had put her by herself and the doe they said jumped the fence and was hanging from her back legs caught in a cattle panel. Which obviously happened because Her leg was lashed open to the Bone and looked like her hip was broke. She was screaming of pain. My motherly instinct kicked in and of course I pittied her and rushed the sale and got her home as fast as possible. She gave me her regestered paperwork....no health. I'm sorry for a long rambling story. It just sucks. Sorry. Learn from my mistake please!


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I really hope I'm wrong I really do.....!?


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I am praying for you!!!


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## bamaherd (Jun 14, 2017)

Prayers coming from South Alabama!! It's still possible it's an access. Please don't write her off too quickly. She is beautiful and needs help. Personally, I would keep her even is she is positive for CL, but I have 25 acres and could easily separate her, so perhaps it's easier for me to say that.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Stop panicking. You can do this. But you just don't have time to research right now. The vet can handle this, then you'll have time to research and make management decisions. No one here will judge what you choose to do. But I think that abscess is about to rupture, and you don't have the time to research before it does.

You are going to be fine. But don't wait if that abscess is soft. And to me it looks like it is.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Thank you everyone!!! I need some more options please.....#1. a goat or rumen vet is not common in our area. The ones that are; market themselves as "exotic vets" =$$$$, and #2. it's Friday on top of that. I'm willing to pay to know the diagnosis, and I am pretty good with goats, and have had them all my life...is there a way I can collect sample and send it someware myself (other than a rumen vet right here)??? By time weekend over mail will be just as fast anyway right???


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Update: ok I read it was really important not to have the absess bust on its own, to best keep the disease from spreading​. So I layed her down on a thick cardboard sheet and lanced it, drained it, iodine it and covered it with plenty of gause to drain and vet wrapped it to stay covered. Everything went in big trash bag tripled after (expect goat)


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

She is separated and now I need to go from here...I only have two more goats who were not in with her unless run through mistake prior to all of this...but they will still be tested of course. How far do they need to be apart? And is it airborne​? I read just puss....? Thank you again. This part of goat people are the best!!!


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I just hope Lord saves her and it's​ from her getting hung up in the fence.... or something other than a disease ..... :/


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I did do it! Thank you for your support and counting on me ms/ Mrs. Rose!!!!


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

You really need some of the puss from the abscess to get tested. It could very well have been just from an injury. What did the puss look/smell like? If I recall correctly, from reading on here, the puss from a CL abscess will be pasty and thick and not stink.


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## BoerSaanenmother12 (May 21, 2014)

Nubiandairy said:


> I will not sell her unknown of her condition like they did to me. These goat people have left me blind several times now and I think I should let their names known. I'm tird of staying quiet so these people proceed to benefit off of bad sales!!!


I am so very sorry that this happened to you I hate it when people do this to people and don't give a rats A** about the goats life and if it really matters to them. why do people do this to poor defenseless animals.

I had my run ins with 1 person like this but she was honest about testing and everything but the buckling's temperament was just like his fathers very very Aggressive and would attack you if you turned your back to him sadly he ended up breaking his neck when he got his horns stuck in the fence.

I hope your doe is okay and not contagious to any of your other goats. I will be praying for your doe and for you to stay strong for her and if it is CL i pray that you will have the strength to make the right choice on her behave and your other goats.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The pus is what needs to be tested, as a blood test is unreliable. It is an indication, not a confirmation.

I don't know about the different labs that you can send to. That is not something I've done yet. But if you have any of that pus, at the very least take it to the vet and ask them to send it to a lab. They don't even have to see the goat. I took mine in a glass jar, and my vet sent it in.

Then I knew for certain and could make more informed and targeted research and management decisions.

Others here can tell you about sending to a lab yourself.

Well done on the lancing.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Thank you for your input! Okay so I can get a sample on a q-tip and put it in glass jar? What would be the best way to collect and take to vet and send off? Any good ideas on what to collect on? And any specific ways to put in jar! I hate to act so dumb but I want to make sure I do this right.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

The WADDL website probably has instructions.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Current situation...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you already lanced and removed the pus, you should have done it then.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

When I change her bandage I'm going to collect as you all said. I did not collect the first time because I was kind of lost and also didn't think I had the right utensils to do so. Thanks to you a glass jar and what to collect puss on??? How much should I collect if I can? I know glass jar but on what? Any specific ways of placing the puss in jar? I'm sorry I just don't want to do it wrong. I don't know how many chances I have on this and I want to do right. Should I use q-tip, gause pad? Thank you so much everyone!


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Yes I did but I'm pretty sure it's going to need drained again and if so that will be my chance to collect this time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Call WADDL. The pus previously could have just been put right into the jar but if there isn't much pus anymore, then I'm not sure.


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I was caught by such surprise, had never been through this and missed the collection part.  I was so worried about getting it lanced and drained before it ended up all over everything and contaminating everything.... didn't think collect sample myself. :/


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

My next order of supplies I will get more test tubes for sure!!! Normally have them figures not this time!!!!!! Grrrrr!


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)




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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Going to change it like usual but going to see if it will drain more puss. For one to make sure it's drained and empty, and two maybe sample to send off.... we will see. I'll keep you posted in case anyone has this problem themselves. Thank you, thank you, and thank you again. Y'all our angels by our sides.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

Looks like you did a great job bandaging. ..probably far better than I would have. Hopefully you can get enough to get tested when you change it. She sure is a pretty girl.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

My advice is to take her to the vet right away - and find out if it is anything bad -before you panic about it. Maybe CL but could be an infected splinter?? Knowing right away makes the most sense. Sorry - always something with these wonderful goats.


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## TeppyTheGoatGirl (Jan 24, 2017)

Nubiandairy said:


> I went outside this morning and I found this on the side of my does head. What is this? Please tell me it's something not major....Lord please! I need the truth though regardless.  Why why why. Always something it seems.
> View attachment 118561
> View attachment 118562


Looks like a CL abscess. I had a goat this year who got it twice on his face as well. It's a soil born disease and varies who gets it and doesn't get it. I did a lot of reasearch on it and was totally freaked out because it's contagious and most people said to put the goat down. Don't let all that scare you. My vet cut it open and drained them and cleaned the area. never had an issue since and none else in my herd got once. It's a fixable issue but can reoccurr.


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## MosbyRidgeFarm (Jun 19, 2017)

Teppy - I love reading stories like yours. I, like the OP bought a buck for my does without really knowing about CL and of course he had it. I have since dealt with it twice more (the first two I did have put down) but I'm trying to keep the current victim alive as she's a nursing mom to a month old baby. I've decided to keep my herd closed (no selling or adding) now until I have the CL under control (if ever). I'm so happy to read that you were able to accomplish what my goal is now.

OP - I'm sorry, but I agree with the others that it's a CL abscess. Thank you for sharing your picture of the bandage, because my current case has an abscess in the exact same location and I will copy your technique to protect her baby once the abscess is opened. Best wishes to you and I hope the disease doesn't affect any of your other goats as it did mine.


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## Gobbler (Jun 26, 2017)

Nubiandairy said:


> I went outside this morning and I found this on the side of my does head. What is this? Please tell me it's something not major....Lord please! I need the truth though regardless.  Why why why. Always something it seems.
> View attachment 118561
> View attachment 118562





Nubiandairy said:


> I went outside this morning and I found this on the side of my does head. What is this? Please tell me it's something not major....Lord please! I need the truth though regardless.  Why why why. Always something it seems.
> View attachment 118561
> View attachment 118562


Y This looks like CL from the pictures.CL is a gland infection that resembles a boil.This will continue to get larger over the next couple of weeks and will eventually rupture.CL is highly contagious,on an open wound.I would recommend having it lanced by a vet.Also if possible separate this goat until the sore is healed completely.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This is why I said you did not have time to properly research and told you to vet it. The vet would have known to send the pus in for testing... I really wasn't trying to add to your expense account. When you told me that you had gone ahead with lancing, all I could think of was you had done enough research to know to keep the damn pus.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mariarose said:


> This is why I said you did not have time to properly research and told you to vet it. The vet would have known to send the pus in for testing... I really wasn't trying to add to your expense account. When you told me that you had gone ahead with lancing, all I could think of was you had done enough research to know to keep the damn pus.


 Please keep it friendly, there was no call to say it the way you did, we do not condone to that here on TGS. 
We sometimes have to learn the hard way.

It should of been tested when it was first opened up yes, I agree, but is wasn't unfortunately.
Any goo thereafter may be contaminated for a true sample, for a good test result, with it being flushed with iodine. You can get her blood tested, while she has a active abscess now and the vet may be able to see what teeter number she is reading there for CL. 
I hate to say this but it does look like CL and in a correct location. I pray it is not, but testing will let you know. If any other abscesses appear, be sure to get a sample as soon as it is lanced. A Q-tip won't be enough. You will want a good amount. And a sterile jar or strong sealed plastic baggy may work too.


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## TeppyTheGoatGirl (Jan 24, 2017)

If you can now that it's drained and she's separated leave the bandage off. It will heal quicker getting some air and should dry out.
My wheather got it three times this year and in the same spot as your girl. I kept an eye on it daily and left bandages off and it dried up in a few days. Stay strong!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm sorry I put it in such a way that offence was taken. Meanness was not intended.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mariarose said:


> I'm sorry I put it in such a way that offence was taken. Meanness was not intended.


 Thank you for the apology, it is greatly appreciated and respected.


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## DawnStar (May 19, 2013)

I had a doe who decided to try to sneak behind a shelter and got herself stuck. We use cattle panels and baling wire for our fencing. Since she was too big to turn around, she just kept trying to push her way through, and stabbed herself with the wire in about the same spot as you would find a CL abcess. 
Luckily, however... I know how that infection started, and the ding-bat did it three more times... poking herself, scratching hair off-- until we were able to fasten the fence to the back of the shelter to keep her from going behind it.. Now she has a bald spot on her face from where the wire removed hair and the puncture got infected.

Puncture wounds can look just like CL. Can occur in the same places as you would expect to find a CL abcess (around the head)--especially if your doe is like the one we have mentioned above-- an aspiring escape artist. Blood test your doe--even though there is no more puss. The fact that an abcess is 'active' would mean the goat would have elevated antibodies. CL can also occur internally as well-- not every goat will show outward signs!! So testing annually is always a good idea 

Keep her isolated until she is healed-- this will mitigate the spread of disease (if she has it), and keep the other goats from harassing her/ pulling off the bandage. Here in AZ the Dept. of Ag recommends quarantined animals be kept 90 feet from other species that may be affected. In small home environments this may be hard to achieve-- so even if she is only 10-12 feet away, at least she is isolated. 

Feed, water, clean her pen etc. LAST. Do not enter her pen, then go to your other goats. Like someone else mentioned CL is like Parvo--it stays in the soil for 10+ years. So, do not track soil. debris, etc. back and forth. Treat her isolation pen like it needs to be 'hospital' clean. The fact that the Abcess didn't rupture in the pen with your other goats I would say is pretty positive. But, after you test her--start testing your other goats as well. A lot of labs only charge $5-$10/test... So for a small number of goats, testing can be affordable--especially if you chip out a group at a time


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

A few years ago, there was a buckling I was interested in buying. When I got there, he had an abscess like that. The owner was a nurse, so she collected pus and sent it in for testing. It came up negative for CL. So it is not always CL (not saying yours is or isn't, just saying not always).

Funny thing is, a month later, he got another abscess on the side of his face, not a CL site, but probably not from an injury either, unless he was particularly prone to injury and abscesses. Never did figure that one out, but did not buy the buckling either. 

Don't beat yourself up about not getting a sample. We do the best we can, and for me, it is super difficult in the moment to do medical-type things, since I have no training in that. I can't even give a shot, and I pray my goats stay healthy, because even getting a rectal temperature seems extremely daunting!


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

Just a couple of quick things..A lot of research has been done on CL and it is not nearly as scary as it sounds. And a lot of people successfully manage it in their herds without "hazmet" suits. There is some debate as to how long it survives in the environment as well.
Since you do not have a livestock vet nearby, you can still utilize a small animal vet services for blood tests, fecal samples and lab samples. Most will be more than happy to show you how to give injections as well. They have to send out samples every day to labs and are usually willing (for a fee of course) to include any samples you have in with theirs to a lab. Just ask them how you need to package it. Mid America Agri testing lab is also a good source for mail in samples. You can look them up on the Web and give them a call for more information on how to submit samples.
If you do not have a large animal vet, then you need to try to get the many self-help medicines on hand and for perscription meds (like innjectible B12, benamine, epidrine, dePanthenol) again, see if you can develop a relationship with a small animal vet who will supply you with these...Then it is just a matter of learning all you can from good sources.
Oh, and get that bandage off the wound..an open abscess heals quickly and well with a flush with betadine iodine and exposure to air..covering it with a bandage can promote secondary infection and delay skin regrowth.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think the bandage was only to protect the kid? She's probably taken the bandage off by now.


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

mariarose said:


> I think the bandage was only to protect the kid? She's probably taken the bandage off by now.


Yes, I would guess so...realized my post was a little late on that.


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

Nubiandairy said:


> I went outside this morning and I found this on the side of my does head. What is this? Please tell me it's something not major....Lord please! I need the truth though regardless.  Why why why. Always something it seems.
> View attachment 118561
> View attachment 118562


How is your goat doing? Did the abscess heal OK?


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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

Thank you everyone. I drained it with iodine so well it was healed by time I took off bandage fortunately! I know not all cases are the same. I personally get staff and guess I can kind of relate to draining all bad stuff out!  But this was her state when I took bandage off for good.

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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

I am keeping her alive for the time. But she does stay in her own pen. She can see other goats but I don't let her in with other goats. I can't risk my herd. Sending off blood work until I have another problem with it as read above with everybodys help. Fortunately I had kept them separate for at least a month as new goats. Always will now expecially! She is my fav and sux's, so by herself right now is better than putting her down. I'm trying to work with her because I have the space to keep her separate. She also is fine with it. Until further problem. Thank you greatly!!!

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## Nubiandairy (Nov 26, 2013)

No I'm not going to let infestation happen, or sell her unknown her health condition. Just keeping her how she is unless it causes a problem either way.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Just have her tested.


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## artzkat (Oct 22, 2007)

Looks great...good job! Abscesses, CL or not, can be a challenge...seem to be something every goat owner has to deal with sooner or later.


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## kathy_ (Mar 10, 2017)

You never did say what the pus looked and smelled like. I have read that an abscess pus is very smelly and CL fluid is not. Also CL is hard and very thick and an abscess soft and able to be drawn out with a needle. An example this article I read gave is the CL indie looked like cottage cheese. I don't know how true any of this is and I am new at raising goats but I have read volumes on taking care of goats. Good luck with your goat will be praying for her.


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## kathy_ (Mar 10, 2017)

The indie should be inside. Sorry.


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## Honsby (Jun 26, 2017)

Nubiandairy said:


> Sorry. Learn from my mistake please!


She may be putting herself out of business inadvertently (or, on purpose) especially if she has a bunch of infected goats.

If that abscess showed up on yours, it will show up on hers too and she won't ... well, shouldn't... be able to sell them.


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