# kid growth rates?



## robbor

I bough my first 5-6mo old kids a while ago. Then i attended a prefered boer auction and they had goat same age as mine some younger that were atleast 2x bigger if not more. I figered mine were runts and mixed with spanish. Then looked at some the other day and they were supposed to be 6 mo possibly older up to 8 and they were much smaller than mine. Whats the deal, What should i be looking for in does and bucks at what age? Id really like to weigh mine to see what their weight is. The wont fit on my fishing scale, lol.


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## Jodi_berg

They say don't compare goats, apples to oranges. Each goats a little different and feed different things.


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## 20kidsonhill

hold them on a bathroom scale, weigh yourself and subtract the difference. 

Some things to think about, First of all, some of these boer goats being sold at these big breeder sales have been raised on surrogate dams, these dams are normally 50% dairy and huge huge frames. THey are used because they can produce really big and really fast growing kids. The same exact blood-lines gestated/birthed and raised by their dam would more than likely be smaller, at least for a while until they catch up, and I am not so sure some of them would ever catch up. 

A good rule of thumb is 10 lbs per month plus 10 lbs at birth. So 80 lbs at 7 months, 70 lbs and 6 months. But there are differences in bloodlines. A 200 lb Boer doe may not be cost affective in the long run. She will need to eat enough to maintain that 200 lb frame, where a 120lb adult Boer doe will eat considerably less. Since sized does seem to matter in the breeding show ring. This would be important, but as far as wether makers and goats used for meat production, your 120 lb doe may be more cost affective. She may beable to produce a pair of 50lb twins at 8 weeks of age, where the 200 lb doe may produce a set of 55 lb twins at 8 weeks of age. But that 200 lb doe has ate a heck of a lot more feed over the year to produce just a few more lbs of kids. 

I have not seen any major research on this subject, but Jack and Anita Mauldin have an interesting article on the subject. 

now, if that 200 lb doe is more likely to beable to carry triplets and quads and milk them for 8 to 10 weeks, then she certainly would be worth the extra money put into her feed. 

I have been to a limited number of Breeding shows, but I can say from the onse I have been at, that size does matter at the shows that I have been at. If they have the same qualities the bigger doe in a class will be placed above the smaller doe. 

I am by no means an expert, but these are some of the things that I have seen with my limited experience. 

I do have a 100% Boer doe that is right at 130lbs as an adult. I also have a couple that are in the higher weight range. Personally I prefer the bigger framed girls. But my smaller framed girl did come from a weither maker farm in Indiana and she does produce nice shaped kids, She has only ever had twins, but always does a good job raising them. I don't think she could produce an even set of triplets. She is too small framed. Even with 10 lb twins at birth she is huge and has a hard time. They are normally right at .52 lbs per day gain while nursing and weans twins that are right at 45 lbs each at 73 days of age(10 weeks). This isn't breaking any weight records, but she eats very little compared to some of my bigger framed does.


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## HoosierShadow

Great post!
I have to agree 100%. I think it comes down to what you plan on doing with your goats. If your planning to show, then you'll want the best you can get.
If your planning to show or sell wethers, I have had more people tell me their boer/cross 'mutt' does are the best wether producers put with a good/long/muscled buck.
I remember seeing a couple of wether producers at different farms and I was like HUH? lol They weren't fullbloods at all, they were boer/dairy mix.

There are different genetics too. We went to see a 'show' herd as we considered buying a doe from them <still would like too!>, and he said they breed for fast growing genetics, because they want their goats to be big for showing.
They took us to a friend of theirs farm who raises goats - aiming at wethers.
He said he goes with slower growing genetics, because if they kid at the end of the year, or early the next year, you want the kid to make weight, but not get too heavy too fast <kids start showing around the end of spring or early June and state fair is towards the end of August>. 
This made sense to me.


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## ptgoats45

Feed makes a huge difference. Those goats at the breeding sales have most likely been on full feed since they started eating. They are fed a high protein feed to promote the most growth possible. Just look at registered cattle. You will see bulls in production sales that as yearlings weigh 1500 lbs or more. You take that bull home and put him in with a bunch of cows, more than likely he will fall apart, lose a lot of weight and not look like the bull you just bought. When I bought my bull as a yearling he weighed 1000 lbs. He had been on minimal grain and just hay/pasture. He maintained his weight very well on pasture and was even fat most of the time. When I sold him as a 3 year old he weighed 1800 lbs and he was big, fat and all that weight was maintained just on pasture. 

Worming and cocci prevention also play a big role. If a goat has worms or coccidia they are more likely to be stunted or have slowed growth. The feeds that are usually fed to show goats contain a coccidiastat to prevent coccidia. A lot of people will worm their goats often, sometimes more than necessary to prevent them from having any problems.

The last Boer show I went to, the judge made a comment to everyone about how big the goats were. She told them they were breeding goats, not miniature cattle.


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## toth boer goats

Everyone has said it well, don't need to add more.


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## Tenacross

Great answers to this thread.
It's mostly about the milk. Whatever effects milk production of the
doe will effect the growth of the kid. The insane rates of growth are
in the first three months. It's not a popular idea on this forum, but
I'm convinced a creep fed feed with Rumensin make a big difference
too. Genetics are a big factor too, but I believe appetite is genetic.
I had a nice red buck kid last year that I pulled off his mother at
two months so his sister, who I knew I was going to retain, could
get more milk. I would let this buck kid suck my Saanen milk doe
twice a day. This kid could polish off an adult portion of feed as
quickly as an adult at two months. He weighed 92lbs at four
months old.


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## 20kidsonhill

We creepfeed with a Rumensin medicated feed.


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## robbor

Tenacross said:


> Great answers to this thread.
> It's mostly about the milk. Whatever effects milk production of the
> doe will effect the growth of the kid. The insane rates of growth are
> in the first three months. It's not a popular idea on this forum, but
> I'm convinced a creep fed feed with Rumensin make a big difference
> too. Genetics are a big factor too, but I believe appetite is genetic.
> I had a nice red buck kid last year that I pulled off his mother at
> two months so his sister, who I knew I was going to retain, could
> get more milk. I would let this buck kid suck my Saanen milk doe
> twice a day. This kid could polish off an adult portion of feed as
> quickly as an adult at two months. He weighed 92lbs at four
> months old.


Can you guys explain creep fed feed with Rumensin???
Also Would it be a ok idea to have a milk goat and the the kids suckle on mom and the milk goat? I did not know a kid would take milk from 2 diff does?
LAstly for extra proteen with my lil runt doe, will a 8mo does take milk from a bottle normally or is the digestive system not able to digest milk at that age/no benefit??


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## 20kidsonhill

rumensin is one of the medications that can be put in feed to help with coccidiosis, The other is Deccox(dequinox...spelling?) We prefer Rumensin. Well, I beleive most people prefer Rumenisin(Monensin). One reason some feed mills(companies) use Deccox instead is that it isn't as easy to make a mistake with it. Rumensin needs to be mixed carefully, or it can be toxic. rumensin is also toxic to horses. 

Creep feed, is when you build an area that only the kids can get into and not the adults. Often it will be a little higher protein that the feed you are feeding the adults. We have our feed milled and don't go through enough feed to mill two different batches, so our feed is 17% protein. I would prefer an 18% protein for the first couple of months for the kids. But it isn't practical for us. And really the adult does don't always need a 17% protein feed. Even a 14 or 15% protin feed would be good for them most the time, but again, we just don't have the facility to justify having two batches made. 

In your case you will be limited to what is bagged in your area, check the feed labels of your Goat grower feeds. We prefer all pelleted, because they are less likely to sift through the feed and picko out their favorite parts, and the label will list if it is medicated and which medication they are using. 

I didn't take the time to go back and read your other posts, Are you feeding these girls a grain? What grain did you go with? 
Alfalfa hay is also very good for growing kids. 

I don't use a dairy doe to nurse any of my kids, but normally the way I have heard it done is the dairy doe is tied and then the kid who is not getting enough milk is brought to the doe 2 or 3 times a day. A boer farmer can have one or two dairy does freshen at the same time as his Boer goats and help provide extra milk for several kids this way. I


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## ptgoats45

I have heard that Rumensin is also supposed to have a bit of a grower in it, meaning it will help promote maximum growth more than the Deccox will. I use a medicated feed with my dairy kids also, they grow very well and don't have problems with coccidia.

I would assume that if the kid is nursing two does, then her dam is not giving enough milk. It is ok for her to nurse the milk goat if the milk goat tolerates it. An 8 month old that has already been weaned will not take a bottle. You are better off to get them on a good medicated goat feed. Usually they are listed at the feed stores as a show goat feed. They are pelleted, and some goats won't like it too much to start, but once they get on it they love it. If they don't like it I just give them the feed until they start eating, they get some hay, but not so much to fill them up. Once they start eating the pellet then you can gradually increase until they are eating it free choice and also increase the hay so they have that free choice as well.

At their age, grain and good quality hay will be better for them to gain weight than milk. Even with younger kids, when they are old enough to start eating grain/hay eventually the milk becomes a supplement and the solid food is their main diet. I wean my kids at 4 months, by then they are eating enough solids to not need the benefit from the milk.


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## Tenacross

robbor said:


> Also Would it be a ok idea to have a milk goat and the the kids suckle on mom and the milk goat? I did not know a kid would take milk from 2 diff does?
> LAstly for extra proteen with my lil runt doe, will a 8mo does take milk from a bottle normally or is the digestive system not able to digest milk at that age/no benefit??


It depends. Supplementing a kid with another doe is not usually necessary.
Also, the "milk goat" should be tested free of CAE, CL and Johnnes before
you even consider doing this. Some kids won't take milk from another doe.
Hunger will change attitudes though. If a doe dies, I would rather raise
orphans on a nurse goat than bottle feed. Also, lots of folks will tell you
their doe raises triplets or quads "no problem". I'm sure that's true, but
that doesn't mean two of them wouldn't have grown out better if there 
wasn't the third. If you know what I mean. In all honesty, I use the
nurse goat excuse to keep two Saanen does that are really just pets. 
They are the least valuable, dollar wise, goats I own, but they eat more
than any of my other goats. So I justify their existence by making them
earn their keep. As it turns out, I didn't need them that much last year,
but what little I did use them showed me that it can and will work. I 
hope one day to actually graft two or three kids on to a Saanen and have
her raise them as her own in the field. I think it's possible, I just haven't
done it yet. Last year the Saanens raised their own, so they do have 
good mothering instincts. 
Like PTgoats said, there is a point of diminishing returns on milk as
food for a young goat. It's about 3 to 4 months. IMO. I do leave 
doelings I'm going to retain on their mother if the mother isn't getting
too thin. I have more trouble with these Boer does being too fat than
I do with them getting too thin. Having an older kid still on them seems
to keep them trimmer and it definitely makes it easier for the doeling
to become an accepted member of the herd.


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## robbor

20kidsonhill said:


> I didn't take the time to go back and read your other posts, Are you feeding these girls a grain? What grain did you go with?
> Alfalfa hay is also very good for growing kids.
> 
> I


Yes i have been graining them since the day i got them to help tame them. I could not tell you exactly, sweet oats with some crushed corn after they went through a bag i got some sweet pelleted feed from tsc that was higher in protien but they dont like it quite as much as the unpetteled sweet oats. They have had alfalfa also the last month since i i have had to pen them at times also. And they have had the run of 5 acres of all the berry leaves, grass and schrubs they can eat.


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## Tenacross

robbor said:


> Yes i have been graining them since the day i got them to help tame them. I could not tell you exactly, sweet oats with some crushed corn after they went through a bag i got some sweet pelleted feed from tsc that was higher in protien but they dont like it quite as much as the unpetteled sweet oats. t.


 I went throught the same thing. Made the mistake of feeding a sweet 
feed and then they turned their nose at the pelleted feed. It's what they
are used to. Make the pellets their first offering and only choice. I now
reserve sweet feed only for does that just kidded or sick goats I want to
trick into eating. Try and find the feed with Rumensin. If your feed store
doesn't carry it, ask them if they could get some. Often they don't know
unless someone asks. You might end up helping a lot of people if they
start carrying it.


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## nancy d

Tim we have the opposite problem re:the BoerGoatDeveloper vs Sweetfeed, which I like to give to the ones for our own milk.
They prefer the BGD!


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## 20kidsonhill

mine don't seem too picky, but we purchased a 6 month old buck, bottle fed and had only been on a sweetfeed mixture, for goats, but still mixed like a sweatfeed .I wish I had gotten a couple bags from him to take home, because this guy wouldn't touch our pelleted feed. Not for days, for weeks going onto a couple months. Drove me crazy. Plus we had problems with him bloating everydang time you moved him or introduced new feed.


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## Tenacross

nancy d said:


> Tim we have the opposite problem re:the BoerGoatDeveloper vs Sweetfeed, which I like to give to the ones for our own milk.
> They prefer the BGD!


 Ha. It's kind of the same problem though... your's are used to the 
BGD and so they don't want to change. Personally I feed the Rumensin
feed to my milkers too. I think they milk better on it first of all, second,
I don't sell the milk so I can do whatever I want. Third, the cow dairys
feed their cows Rumensin feed, so why would it be any different for a
goat? I know the label says don't, but I think it's just because no one
has paid for a safety study.


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## farmgirl17

ptgoats45 said:


> I have heard that Rumensin is also supposed to have a bit of a grower in it, meaning it will help promote maximum growth more than the Deccox will. I use a medicated feed with my dairy kids also, they grow very well and don't have problems with coccidia.
> 
> I would assume that if the kid is nursing two does, then her dam is not giving enough milk. It is ok for her to nurse the milk goat if the milk goat tolerates it. An 8 month old that has already been weaned will not take a bottle. You are better off to get them on a good medicated goat feed. Usually they are listed at the feed stores as a show goat feed. They are pelleted, and some goats won't like it too much to start, but once they get on it they love it. If they don't like it I just give them the feed until they start eating, they get some hay, but not so much to fill them up. Once they start eating the pellet then you can gradually increase until they are eating it free choice and also increase the hay so they have that free choice as well.
> 
> At their age, grain and good quality hay will be better for them to gain weight than milk. Even with younger kids, when they are old enough to start eating grain/hay eventually the milk becomes a supplement and the solid food is their main diet. I wean my kids at 4 months, by then they are eating enough solids to not need the benefit from the milk.


I know u can start off feeding them a little medicated feed as creep feed . how do u get them to eat some ?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

farmgirl17 said:


> I know u can start off feeding them a little medicated feed as creep feed . how do u get them to eat some ?


If you leave it out for them, they'll eventually start to nibble on and eat it at around 2-4 weeks old. It helps if they see another goat eating it.


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