# Doe Confo & Udder Critique



## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Alrighty, I let Jolie fill for the first time last night. She is two weeks and three days fresh. This is a 12 hour fill and she is a FF Nigerian Dwarf.










I was happy for a first timer. Her udder looks a lot like her dams. In fact, her capacity is about the same as her dam's as a FF, so I'm hoping that her sire added a lot to her (his dam had a phenomenal udder.)

She is 11 months old. She was bred a little earlier than I would have preferred. I'm not so impressed with her build.... Mostly in that she is lacking length and has a dip behind her withers. She is also downhill and is steeper out her rump than I'd like. I'm not sure if I want to keep her or not at this point. She showed so much promise as a kid and I'm wondering if she is going through an odd growth stage?










She looks much better set up, although my groggy husband grumpily took the photo this morning and he was a little lazy and its angled some.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Her udder looks pretty decent for a young FF. She has a good medial, could use a tad more height, and good width. It needs improvement with teat placement (need to be more centered) and her teats could also be larger (which may improve a bit).

Her conformation is lacking in several areas. However, breeding her to a buck with very correct conformtion can improve kids over her greatly.

Good: Brisket extension and nice neck.
Bad: Steep rump. Rear leg angulation is lacking. Weak front legs. Toes out. Needs a more level topline and more overall sharpness.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I agree with everything you said. I'm 98% sure I'll be selling her when her kids are weaned in milk. I was surprised she stood so very well for me to milk her for the first time. Although they are tiny, her teats were very easy to milk (they are pretty long) and the texture is beautiful. I think she will make a wonderful family milker for someone or a good little doe to cross on some very strong bucks, but not a show animal for sure. I think too much of her dam is coming through as she matures.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I think that'd be a great option for her! :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree, with better height in the rear and some tweaking with teat placement, she has great potential for a near perfect udder.
For a FF though, she looks great!


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Ok, I have a question.. Can anyone tell me how the legs should be? A photo example maybe?


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

If you can keep her around for another freshening things can change a lot given a little more time. She's really young and is more than likely going through an awkward stage. I like the looks of her udder for the most part (rear height is what's bugging me the most). She's clipped a little close and her legs may look better if they are clipped as well (look a bit hairy). It's one of the most tedious jobs clipping legs but it's important that they are closer clipped than the body. I'm no expert on show clipping but tend to always do more of a "dairy clip" on the body and clip closer on the legs/foot area, shave the udder. It ends up looking really good for the show ring, to me anyways.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Amos said:


> Ok, I have a question.. Can anyone tell me how the legs should be? A photo example maybe?


I don't have any pics to show but the rear leg should have an angle at the "knee"...this does leg is more straight down from thigh to knee


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Here's a good website on conformation of the dairy goat: http://www.kidnacres.com/id16.html


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks Kylee! I know what I like to see with udders and form but knowing what's "right" is something I'm still learning.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

No problem.  That website has really helped me...I think they've done a great job with the a photo explanation. :thumb:


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Yeah her legs are still pretty hairy. I wasn't doing a show clip, just clipping because its decided to go from being semi-cool to mid to high 70s all at once out here and her coat was pretty shaggy. She threw a complete fit when I was clipping her legs. Finally laid down and refused to stay standing while I was trying to handle them. They are lucky they got that far. Lol.

I might keep her around a little longer, I don't know. I have just been very disappointed with how she is maturing. Here is her at around two months old for comparison:










She was looking really nice then, and now her front end just seems shrunken compared to her back end and she just doesn't have much in terms of body length. That is why I was wondering if she is just going through a really ugly phase. Even her rear leg angulation seems to have gotten worse.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow...what a change. She looked much better in that baby photo. If you really like her, then i'd keep her around for another 6 months and see if she doesn't change a bit more. She could be going through an awkward stage right now making her look worse than she is. 

You probably won't see much change with her legs, but maybe give her a chance and see if she can't mature a bit more until deciding. Also, she was probably really irritated after her clipping and being stacked for photos which doesn't help. Does she look any better out and about by herself?


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

She does look better out and about, but still smaller in her front end and shorter than I'd like. I think I'll go ahead and keep her until the fall. I don't like what I am seeing body-wise but I love her udder so I'll give her a chance. She was very angry about both the clip and the photos...plus she was screaming her head off at her babies.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

She's not quite a year old right? Don't give up on her too soon. She's still growing and even though I don't have a large herd but just 2 reg. does, when I got Binkey, she was 2 years old and looked TOTALLY different than what she does now at 6 years old, they don't reach their full potential until they are at least 3 years old, they seem to refine their looks as adults.....even if you kept her and bred her in the fall to kid next year, I'm sure you'd see a difference in how she matures.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Shes still very young. Give her some time! Maybe another freshening and see how she is! She is so pretty


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I tried to go take a better photo before the sunlight left me. She was much more relaxed with her kids nearby. She is a very, very protective mom. She wouldn't stand naturally tied up until her kids came running by her (they can slip through the holes into the field, but never go far from mom right now. They'll be moving into a bigger pen this week.) She quit hunching up and relaxed to stare at her babies.










She has a ton of fuzz on the backs of her rear legs. I'll have to touch it up when I can. She just has a "shrunken" front end right now. You can see where her back dips downhill to her wither, and her entire shoulder and chest area looks tiny compared to her rear. I got a little doe at 8 months that was doing that REALLY bad. (I called it the "tick effect" and I've seen it in growing kids, but not usually this old!) She was also really short bodied, but she came around really well. She was even worse looking because I honestly think she was malnutritioned and stunted:

From This:









To This:









In literally only one month.

So I think you guys are right, she hasn't started to look funky until the last couple of months. She has been growing taller in her butt lately and gaining a ton of depth of body. Thanks for the comments guys, I've been really bummed about her development lately. I will let her keep growing and give her some vitamin supplements and up her grain some. I asked my local feeds store to get me some Sweetlix but they said the supplier won't be able to be reached for a week.  I really think if I had some better minerals for my goats it would help a lot. Purina isn't cutting it.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

YES please keep her. Id love to see her more mature, most does dont hit full maturity until they are 3 years old!

Shes very pretty and seems to be improving, maybe shes going through her ugly stage, I had a doe that did that and DANG im glad I kept her!


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks a bunch for that link Kylee! Setting up their legs right is where I always go wrong.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

No problem Amos.  It's been a big help for me.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

That link is the best. I reference those photos a lot, and when I first started learning correct conformation with goats that is where I started.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

goats grow a lot in the first two years -- I would give her some more time.

Her udder is nice - I would be happy to see it on one of my does.

the back end tends to grow before teh front end - so thats not to uncommon to see.


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