# Wether doe?



## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Here is a doe I would like to get opinions on if she might produce a market wether that is competitive. These pictures are from July. She is bigger now, but she still is basically the same. This doe just doesn't have the big front end I am trying to breed for in my herd for ABGA shows. But she has a pretty good butt and is fairly big topped. To me she doesn't have much "rib shape", but I honestly am not sure what that is anyway. Ha.  She won't be bred till next year, so yeah, I'm crazy like that. I'm keeping her regardless because she has perfect bite, teats and pigment and does display pretty good muscling.


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## JT3 (May 1, 2011)

She's actually not that bad of a purebred doe.

She is super feminine and long.

Heck id take her lol...I really like the length that she has as well.

If I were you and looking to use her as a breeding doe for whether classes I would find a MASSIVELY wide topped and/or huge hipped buck to breed her to.

She has the length and the sleek club goat look...just as you say needs more width...but she doesnt look THAT narrow.

Still...I'd breed her to a MASSIVE buck..she has length and style so i wouldnt worry too much on the buck having that...just want a big boy.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

LOL everytime I read the title wether doe I get confused for a second and think, Um it cant be both its one or the other hehe


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

I would definitely take a wether out of her! She's great in the length area, got a nice tight chest, stylish hip, and good muscling all around. I think last time I saw pictures of this doe (may have not been her...), I viewed her as a wether doe prospect. Nice girl you have


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

She's not your typical Texas style wether doe. But, I do like her style. She has a nice tight hide. She has good length, but not freakishly long. Not enough width for my taste. I would like to see her more blown apart. She has a good long feminine neck that blends okay into her shoulder, could be smoother. I am not loving her hip shape right now, it's too small. Like was said, the right buck with her will make some nice wethers that with good feed and excercise will place in high in their class.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

The Friday Night Fiesta in San Angelo at 8pm should be on Drive or DVAuction. That will be some Texas style wether does and bucks. Give you and idea of what the bigs look at.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> She's not your typical Texas style wether doe. But, I do like her style. She has a nice tight hide. She has good length, but not freakishly long. Not enough width for my taste. I would like to see her more blown apart. She has a good long feminine neck that blends okay into her shoulder, could be smoother. I am not loving her hip shape right now, it's too small. Like was said, the right buck with her will make some nice wethers that with good feed and excercise will place in high in their class.


What is your typical TX style wether doe compared to her? I don't need her to be a wether style doe. I know what she is, I see her every day. If I could get a buck to put a wide powerful chest on her offspring, viola, they would be show goats. The rest of her is very close to being there. But with her being kind of narrow in the chest floor, but still clean, I thought maybe she was more of a natural for the wether market. We had the discussion about the wether buck's shoulders in another thread. Maybe you can't see it so much in the pictures, but she has a pretty big butt and decent hip. I've had opportunity to have her standing right beside ABGA class winners to compare, so it's not like I'm totally guessing.  I think I have an idea what "blown apart" means, but maybe you could elaborate. I would *not* consider her to have an impressive spring to her rib. In a horse we would describe it as "slab sided", though she is not what I would describe as a "fish" sided animal. She's actually a pretty big girl. Like I say, it's really just when you view her from the front where she really lacks IMO for ABGA.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't understand what a wether doe is either.
Tim you put Darlin over her for wider front but I imagine you have AI plans.
Shes beautiful IMO.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm not sure which doe this is Tim, (Joleen?) but I know I have seen all of your young does at shows, and I think they are all beautiful show goats. And they have all done well.  If it were me, I would take the advice given and breed her to a massive, wide buck. Then if you get a doeling from that, hope for the best that the width is passed on and there you have your winner in the ABGA shows! If she has bucks, well those would make pretty darn good wethers!


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> What is your typical TX style wether doe compared to her? I don't need her to be a wether style doe. I know what she is, I see her every day. If I could get a buck to put a wide powerful chest on her offspring, viola, they would be show goats. The rest of her is very close to being there. But with her being kind of narrow in the chest floor, but still clean, I thought maybe she was more of a natural for the wether market. We had the discussion about the wether buck's shoulders in another thread. Maybe you can't see it so much in the pictures, but she has a pretty big butt and decent hip. I've had opportunity to have her standing right beside ABGA class winners to compare, so it's not like I'm totally guessing.  I think I have an idea what "blown apart" means, but maybe you could elaborate. I would *not* consider her to have an impressive spring to her rib. In a horse we would describe it as "slab sided", though she is not what I would describe as a "fish" sided animal. She's actually a pretty big girl. Like I say, it's really just when you view her from the front where she really lacks IMO for ABGA.


To me, when I hear blown apart I think a package apperance of wide front and back, a lot of daylight underneath, front legs positioned straight outside and not under angling out, entire rib section springs forth.

Maybe the pictures don't do her justice on her butt size and hip shape.

This little May doeling sold the other day. This what I picture as Texas style wether maker doeling. She's a baby but you can see what she about.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Crossroads Boers said:


> I'm not sure which doe this is Tim, (Joleen?) but I know I have seen all of your young does at shows, and I think they are all beautiful show goats. And they have all done well.  If it were me, I would take the advice given and breed her to a massive, wide buck. Then if you get a doeling from that, hope for the best that the width is passed on and there you have your winner in the ABGA shows! If she has bucks, well those would make pretty darn good wethers!


Yes, that's Jolene. Makes sense what you said and that is what I was thinking originally anyway, but with all this talk about the wether breeding not liking the big blocky shoulders, I thought maybe I should go another direction with her in case this wether thing ever gets going up here. If the wether does are supposed to be wider fronted than she is, then I'm still lost on what they are supposed to look like. The pictures I've seen of Hummel's etc. are just from the side and they are usually braced.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> The Friday Night Fiesta in San Angelo at 8pm should be on Drive or DVAuction. That will be some Texas style wether does and bucks. Give you and idea of what the bigs look at.


I haven't seen anything on my e-mail yet. Could you forward a link if you find it, GT?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> To me, when I hear blown apart I think a package apperance of wide front and back, a lot of daylight underneath, front legs positioned straight outside and not under angling out, entire rib section springs forth. This little May doeling sold the other day. This what I picture as Texas style wether maker doeling. She's a baby but you can see what she about.


Thanks, GT. The doeling in the video has a better chest than my doe. I thought "blown apart" was in reference to rib shape. I am breeding for goats that have daylight between their legs, this particular doeling of mine just doesn't have it. I think my doe has as good a butt as the doe in the video though. Here are two pics from this morning from a different angle.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

OK. This one of mine looks more like the doe in GT's video. What do you think, GT?


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

See this is why I would make a poor goat show judge. I look at these two does and I don't see that much difference.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

That doeling in the video is a May kid. An $8000 May kid from genetics that were never offered for sale at auction only private treaty, until her and a few of her flush sisters were sold the other day.

I am no great judge of wether maker does. I see what has been selling good(expensive)and I can tell by the large price differential what is hot and what's not. Notice I said "hot" not good. It

First off, I really like your does and would be proud to have them in my small herd. The comments are just what I see from a few pictures and may also be skewed by personal preference for certain styles.

The does skin looks a little loose, topline is hard to tell if level, looks good and flat over the loin, jump muscles look good to me, a little steep in the rump and may be tight in the fore rib. I like her shoulder for breed stock not for a wether maker doe.

Really need to see profile and a straight shot over the top to tell better what she is about.

If she were mine I would have her penned and on feed for ABGA shows.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Personally I like your doe! I think she has some power, width and bone. Shes pretty smooth appearing. Yes she could use of the blown apart look (to me that is muscle expression and muscle buldging everywhere... forearm, top, leg, chest, shoulder, stifle, muscle pawns on the hip ect.,). 

I'd look for an extremly expressive buck to producr wethers that has that tight, cool look. She could use more rib shape and more pop and width to her top as well. Look at tops on bucks and if possible handle them. It helps a lot. 

I see you say you aren't sure what rib shape is. Basically where the rack comes out of the spine should be barrep shaped. It should come out wide, and carry through the rib cage with the full, barrel look. If that makes any sense. 

To answer your original question, yes I think she could produce some competitive wethers. I try not to look at lines in wethers too much- sure some with theow different attributes but at the end of the day musxle is muscle, width is width and a wether is for meat. Look for the basics then worry about getting pretty fronts and tight hides (hers is pretty good)


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## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

TDG-Farms said:


> LOL everytime I read the title wether doe I get confused for a second and think, Um it cant be both its one or the other hehe


I was confused too I thought it was going to be asking if you could whether a doe.

Very pretty doe you have there


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> That doeling in the video is a May kid. An $8000 May kid
> The does skin looks a little loose, topline is hard to tell if level, looks good and flat over the loin, jump muscles look good to me, a little steep in the rump and may be tight in the fore rib. I like her shoulder for breed stock not for a wether maker doe. Really need to see profile and a straight shot over the top to tell better what she is about. If she were mine I would have her penned and on feed for ABGA shows.


The picture of my second doe is an old picture, so she is pretty close in age in the picture to the doe in the video. Darn close. I don't pen anything, but she is on feed and is now fat as a pork chop. She got fifth in a @17 goat ABGA class the only time she's been shown. Again, I don't need any of my goats to be "wether type does", but darn! I thought her shoulder was the same as that one in the video. More or less. What looks like loose wrinkles is actually color variation. She's pretty clean. They get that from Gauge's G-Force.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

http://cjasonspence.com/

Have not found out if it's on DVAuction or Drive. May not be broadcast.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Exotic outcross doeling Mar kid.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

www.drivelivebid.com Friday Fiesta


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> Exotic outcross doeling Mar kid.


Thanks, GT. Seeing them on the move in a video is the best way to see what the wether goats are all about. Not that I really get it yet, but still...


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

here is a video of a couple of Bronco Flemings does. Dec kids I think.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Here is a red doeling that's pretty darn good.


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