# finding grass hay



## rtdoyer (May 6, 2010)

Everything I've read suggests that older goats need a grass hay. When I've been calling around trying to find it, I feel like I'm speaking a foreign language. Is grass hay uncommon? Do you need to special order it in most places? I live in Eastern Washington and everywhere you look there is an alfalfa field. 

Tonia


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

From what I can gather....

I think Timothy hay is 'grass' hay. But it is really just a wild field mowed for hay. There is a premium price on it now because horse people think it is good for horses, but it used to be considered junk hay.

IFA has it in compressed bales for $10. I have largely given up on finding grass hay but bought a scythe to make my own. I have planted some experimental miscanthus giganteus for the purpose of making real grass hay.

I may be completely wrong since I am getting this info from some pretty shading looking characters.

I am letting my guys browse on the spring grass, and box elder and chinese elm leaves, supplementing them with a bit of alphalpha only because they are spoiled.


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## Coyotl Viejo (May 22, 2010)

I'm far from an expert, but my observation has been that on your side of the Cascades there is more alfalfa, while the west side has more grass hay. My area (Southern Oregon) is almost all grass hay. It might be worth the trouble to find a source of cheap grass hay on the western side of the state, then go in with some other folks to make a bulk purchase that can be delivered. Or, if you're closer to Idaho, I would think that there would be grass hay up in the panhandle, or in western Montana??? (Just guessing, based on my memories of those areas.)

Growing up in rural high schools we took ag classes and we had to learn about all the hay grasses. You might look for specific types: timothy grass, orchard grass, oats, rye, etc. I can't remember all the types, but there are many. A basic google search should get the names of the most common varieties. Perhaps that would make more sense when you are asking around, if you used the specific names.

Best o' luck!

Dan


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## Perry (May 8, 2009)

You should be able to find grass hay in Eastern Washington. 

I live near Tacoma in Western Washington. The feed stores around here usually carry alfalfa, Timothy grass hay and Orchard grass hay (sometimes with a small percentage of alfalfa). It all comes from Eastern Washingtonâ€¦you donâ€™t want to be getting hay from over here (Western Washington is quite different from Southern Oregon as far as hay goes). 

I get the Orchard grass for our goats.

Perry


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## Packfish (Dec 18, 2009)

Bob- in Northern Utah (Cache Valley) it's pretty tough not to find grass hay.
I do have someone that gives me around 15 bales in the winter that's a mixture of grass,alfalfa and weeds that I like for diversity. But as far as pure grass hay goes it's pretty easy to get and very reasonably priced up here.


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## Hasligrove (Dec 10, 2008)

Another name you could look for is Blue grass hay. I was getting orchard for my boys and they love it but it was REALLY good orchard grass. All green and sweet smelling. The Farm store kept saying it is really hot. It took me awhile to figure out what that ment but it means it is high in protien. My boys are getting older too and was worried it was to much for them. We are not extream hikers yet...more pasture potatoes. I found blue grass hay that they stock for overweight horses. The goats turned their noses up for a day or two but now they love it. Waste a bit more than the orchard but it is cheeper. Hope this helps. I'm on the west side of the mountains but I think they get it from Eastern Oregon.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

Packfish said:


> Bob- in Northern Utah (Cache Valley) it's pretty tough not to find grass hay.
> I do have someone that gives me around 15 bales in the winter that's a mixture of grass,alfalfa and weeds that I like for diversity. But as far as pure grass hay goes it's pretty easy to get and very reasonably priced up here.


Cool, I'll have to bring a trailer when we visit.


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## Todd (Jul 16, 2009)

> It all comes from Eastern Washingtonâ€¦you donâ€™t want to be getting hay from over here


Perry- What makes you say that local grass hay from W. Wash is not desireable for goats? Or are you just referring the extra fuel cost to move it to the other side of the state?


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## Todd (Jul 16, 2009)

I was planning to buy local, direct out of the field later this month. This is the cheapest method and you can see the quality and know that it hasn't been rained on or stored outside. Much cheaper than the feed store.


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## Perry (May 8, 2009)

Todd â€“ my point was that there is no reason to buy Western Washington hay if you live in Eastern Washington.

Western Washington hay is generally lower in protein than Eastern Washingtonâ€¦which could make a difference for packgoats who are still growing. With the weather we get, like so far this year, I can be hard to get hay that hasnâ€™t been rained on; and is truly dry enough when itâ€™s bailed. By the time the weather gets good, the grass is a lot more stem and less nutrition.


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## rtdoyer (May 6, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. We purchased alfalfa from a different person and have learned that it just isn't time for the grass hay yet. 

Tonia


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

Perry is right. Due to the amount of rain we get on the west side a lot of the nutrition is leached out of the soil and doesn't go into the plant. Our grass hays are usually mostly fiber. Wethers need around 12% protein and the hays around here are about 8%. On the other side of the Cascades they run about 12-14 or even higher for orchard grass, timothy or bluegrass.

On the other hand, alfalfa runs even higher, except in the places where it is little more than stems and so have less protein.This is why some people can get away with feeding alfalfa more than others.

Hay quality varies in every field. It pays to have it tested if you plan to buy a winter's worth at a time.


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## Packfish (Dec 18, 2009)

Right now the avg price for grass hay in No. Utah for small bales is between $2.50 and $2.75 a bale. Everything I have looked at is weed free- Most of my winter hay is this with about 15 bales of Alfalafa/grass/weed to give them a little variety.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

I pay $10-15 dollars a bale for orchard grass, depending on the time of year and what's available. Alfalfa is a little cheaper but only a buck or two.


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## Packfish (Dec 18, 2009)

sweetgoatmama said:


> I pay $10-15 dollars a bale for orchard grass, depending on the time of year and what's available. Alfalfa is a little cheaper but only a buck or two.


 How big is the bale ? Sometimes I go haul for a guy- after getting 7 or 8 loads for him I get mine free- as I get older I don't know how much of a bargain that is.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

They are anywhere from 80 to 120 pounds.


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## Packfish (Dec 18, 2009)

The $2.75 bales are 50 to 60# here. But that stacks very well for me- I couldn't deal with larger bales. Then again I only have 3 boys.


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## 4-Hgoats (Feb 6, 2010)

I live in ohio, so i'm sure hay prices are different, but i just found a deal on "goat hay"/timothy/orchard grass mix, for 1.50 a bale, and if you buy 20, you get 5 free!!! It was in an ad in our firelands farmer newspaper. U could travel to ohio and buy hay!!! :lol:


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## Packfish (Dec 18, 2009)

I'll make my brother take some on the plane next time he comes out. (0:


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

I pay about $14 a bale here for orchard grass in california. What a rip.


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## 4-Hgoats (Feb 6, 2010)

:lol: Ha, Ha, I fell sorry for all you folks  I just got 25 bales of that orchard grass hay, and the guy must not of know what price to sell it at, so he ended up charging us 1.00 a bale!!!! As far as I know the hay is good too. No must or anything. It's just not "fancy" hay. You people really miss out on the good oportunities here in Ohio :roll: .......... Wasn't the goat rendy here too??!! HA, Ha.- No i honestly feel sorry for u!


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## ali pearson (Aug 12, 2009)

sure you do.


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Just bought orchard grass hay for $80 a ton (about $2 a bale) in Northern Idaho.


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

*Oat hay*

Oat hay is available here in North Idaho. I use it once a day at the evening feeding. Morning feeding is a grass hay mix that includes a bit of alfalfa. The oat hay has what appears to a moderate amount of straw mix with green grass blades and little pods. My 2 1/2 year old boys run on the heavy side. My thinking is that the moderate amount of straw found in the oat hay will help produce rumen heat on these cold nights and not add alot of calories to this less active season. I would appreciate any comment on this thought process as I came up with it on my own. I need to reload the hay barn and wondered if my program is sound in reason. 
IdahoNancy


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## gsbswf (Apr 5, 2009)

I think there is stuff on here about using oat hay. I like the idea of fiber to ruminate on, we try to use willow and pine for that here, but it requires stealth trips into the forest. I am a little concerned about the pods. Many of the pea family type stuff are listed in places as poisonous. Loco weed, of course, but I doubt it is that. Lupine comes to mind as a large enough plant to end up in hay. I can't get Teddy to stop eating either of them, and the more I try, the more he wants it. The other concern with that is the warnings are often related to seed heads because they concentrate whatever the poison is... alkaloids I think.

First try, I found this.

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/poiso ... plupin.htm

I would look for the leaves in the hay. They should be easy to ID even when they are dry. I know that some of these things are ok for goats, but I don't think the alkaloids are one they can break down. Of note in that link is toxicity at less than 1% of body weight, which is still a lot of pods, but easily could occur in a few flakes worth of hay. I also believe that the alkaloid poisons (I know it is true of Loco Weed) can build up in the system, so eating small amounts over time can also cause trouble.

I don't know what else would get pods in hay, so it may not be anything bad, but I would try to get to the place it came from and see what they had growing there. Or get a picture of the pods and some leaves and maybe the forum folks can help.

Good Luck!

Gregg


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## gsbswf (Apr 5, 2009)

It also occured to me that pods and legumes go hand-in-hand, so there may have been some mix of legume into the field for nitrogen fixing. Alfalfa is one that is well known. Here is a link on a species of vetch used for fixing nitrogen that is also good forage. Just to try and temper the alarmist post I just made about alkaloid poisoning... it also has little pods. Sweet clover has really tiny pods, and can be bad in moldy hay, because the mold reacts with a chemical in the plant to create a poison that thins the blood, and if eaten in enough quantity, can cause severe bleeding in even small wounds. Otherwise it is excellent forage, and I cut it out at my boss's house and feed it to the kids fresh.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/vetch.html


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

The toxic effects of alkaloids are familiar to me. I use a variety of alkaloids at work. I am a chemotherapy nurse. We use them to treat cancer. 
The pods in the hay are grain pods, from the oat I assume. Thanks for your thougts.
IdahoNancy


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