# Just had kids now what



## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Help just had 2.kids now what..what do I need to give them? Shots? Etc.

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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Worm the mama, get pics. (not necessarily in that order :grin
No vacs needed for two to three months.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Iodine the navels.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Get pics and then enjoy your babies!


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Congrats make sure the mama is feeding them and they are healthy and not weak!!!


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

So weird though had no sign she was ready to kid.

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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Hehe. My doe was according to calendar, but everytime I looked at her she had no udder no goo no nothing.
Till I heard newborns at the crack of dawn just today.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

One is dead. The other is weak. Wont eat

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Take him in the house...take his temp..normal temp is 101.5-103.5..if its below 100 warm him up..Put him on your lap and make a tent over him with a blanket or towel...warm the ari with a blow dryer..dont blow it on him..just the air...get him warmup to at least 100 and milk mom for colostrum and feed baby via bottle or syringe...Do not feed until temp is 100 or above


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Rub a bit of honey on his tongue to give him a boost


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

You don't even need a thermometer. Mouth should be toasty warm before he gets colostrum, otherwise it will curdle in his tummy.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Tring to warm him up

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good. Have a bottle of colostrum ready...once he is warm enough get him fed...: ) His tummy should be flat but firm! not sunken in or pooching out. He will need to be fed every few hours to keep warm and gain strength....if mom cant do it..you will need to..


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If he's cold get him in the house, heat lamp may not be enough. You can put him inside a plastic bag and into a warm bath, without getting him wet.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Got him inside the barn its 65 in here. We are in Virginia but I have a heayed heated shop I have him in. Got a heat gun and light on him 

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

How long does it take for his temp to come up? Will the temp drop quickly?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It can take a while for it to come up. He is not regulating his temp so it could drop easily.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Depending on how cold he is and how cold the air is, feel in his mouth as Nancy suggested if you dont have a thermometer on hand....and yes, it could drop again..the key is warm milk and moms body heat..if mom cannot sustain him, he might need to come sleep in house for the night...once he is strong and eating well then he should be fine with mom..

Is he any more active?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes getting morr active temp is up to 96 now. Was at 90.

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good its getting there....good job!


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

She is tring to sleep now. Should I try and keep her awake?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can let her sleep. Just keep working on getting the temp up.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Put her on a heating pad!!! It's a miracle what that thing can do for ya!!!


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

And she is up. took a few steps but cant walk very well on polished concrete floors.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Still won't take to mommy though. Mommy is calling her and she is responding. But has not latched on. I have tried a few times to put her on but she doesnt want it.

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If she's still cold you don't want her to eat yet, wait until temp is normal.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Well she made it to the morning. Her temp is at 102.1 got her to drink a little bottle and teet. Still wont latch herself. Will try again. Its almost like she is rejecting the bottle and teet she pushes out of her mouth with her toung. She I put her right next to mom? 

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

May I add she is peeing. 

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

sokoservices said:


> Still won't take to mommy though. Mommy is calling her and she is responding. But has not latched on. I have tried a few times to put her on but she doesnt want it.
> 
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My buckling was just like yours!!!:0 weak, couldn't stand well, wouldn't latch on!! I bring him inside put him on a heating pad on my bed and laid with him. I forced milk down him cause he needed to eat. What I did that really helped me was get a syringe. Every maybe 30 seconds squirt a lil milk in her mouth holder head up and rub her neck gentle. Onc

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

E all the milk is gone let her rest a while and maybe 1-2 hours do it again. It took the buckling almost 24 hours before he finally started latching.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would give a shot of B Complex and a shot of BoSe.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Baby is still weak but temp is great!! keep working on her to latch on..supplement with a bottle between so she doesnt get weaker... To stimulate her sucking reflex put honey on your finger and place it far back on her tongue...let her suck the honey off..repeat several times until she is sucking strong...have honey on the nipple of her bottle of warm milk and slip it in once she is going good...once she is up and going strong getting her on mom will be easier...


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

what type of Honey? Raw honey or any honey?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Any honey is ok.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Was really hoping for better results today and came home to the baby very lethargic. Got some of.moms milk in her and she is bouncing back. On a LONG road here. 

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like it will be along haul...might need to feed her on a regular basis...sometimes mom just needs the help with the kids


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

sokoservices said:


> Was really hoping for better results today and came home to the baby very lethargic. Got some of.moms milk in her and she is bouncing back. On a LONG road here.
> 
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It's tough and long but as long as she is alive there is hope!!!!

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

She s up again. How much is to much milk? Been milking mom and giving it with a syringe. Just gave her 36ml. She took it all. 

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Will she take a bottle?? If she wil give her as much moms milk as she will take!!!!!


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I think the bottle comes out to fast..how do I milk mom faster I have to it with mom laying down. And she tried to bit me a few times. Am I hurting her

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

May be hurting her a little bit. I hold the goats horns then put my legs around her belly she tries to jerk around so I grab the keg on the side I am gonna milk I squeeze her belly with my legs until she calms down. Then I out her legs to where I can milk her and see her udder. If you doe is laying down just make her stand up!! Your doe might be a good miller but mine isn't so that is what I do!! also if the milk is coming out to fast you can get an actual human baby bottle and make the hole a lil bit bigger and let them bottle feed with that. But until then you can keep using the syringe. What type of nipple are you using??!?


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Sorry instead of keg- leg, out-put, miller- milker. Typed to fast haha


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

My bottle setup. I just gave her 8 syringe fulls hopefully.holds her till I get back in 3 to 4 hours.

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

That is what I used for my bucklings at first even when they were weak. I don't think it will hurt them if you use it. But I like regular baby bottles better. 1. The allow the buckling to work a lil harder for his food .2. It's not as messy an it comes out when the bucklings suck .3. It was cheaper an actually had a oz chart on the side. Has she started lat hong on??


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

If she is latching on I would use the bottle you have, and then let her bottle feed on that a couple days and once she is getting really strong and healthy switch to a regular baby bottle 


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is what I use. How much of the tip did you cut off. That is my favorite nipple to use.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

That's what we always use too. You may have cut too much tip off it. You need to just cut a tiny bit and then a tiny bit more until you can see the hole. This one can be used for an older baby so don't toss it if you try another one! 

Tie mama up really short so she can't reach you when you try to milk her. Push her against a wall and then milk. If she tries to lay down, I've seen the suggestion of putting a bucket under her chest. Milk out one side, push her to the other side and milk that side. Then you at least have mama's milk for the baby. Keep trying.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yep we use the same..have my 3 pound baby on it now..he does just fine with it...

I agree with getting moms milk...we have had to tie moms head up, hubby hold one back leg, I held one front leg ( opposit side) and my daughter milked her out like a mad women lol
Hard to do much when you are on two legs lol...

best wishes


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have a neighbor looking after the baby today she just called and said the baby is breathing heavy and took the temp of 105.9 this is HIGH. can this be becuase the baby was in a makeshift shelter on the heating pad in front of the heat lamp? I told her to take the baby out and remove the shelter but leave the heat lamp on and the heating pad on LOW. She stated the babys breathing is leveling out a bit and seams in good spirits.

Should I be concerned for Pneumonia?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

That's a very high temperature. She could be overheated; I would get her away from the heat entirely and keep taking temp every few minutes. If it's a fever it could keep going up and she has to get cooled off immediately.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Check temp again after about 30 minutes. It should go down pretty quick if caused by external heat sources. If it isn't going down, then yes, possible pneumonia. Will need antibiotics- Nuflor is good, plus Banamine for temp.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...remove the heat source and recheck...then if its drops...use one heat source to keep her warm..a heating pad and daft free bed should do it


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have LA200 is that ok to use? How would i know when to give it to her? she is still weak I dont want to give her something that will hurt her.


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## FutureHopeFarm (Feb 4, 2014)

Just make sure they're eating and are heathy! Enjoy them


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

She doesn't need antibiotic unless you have reason to suspect an infection. What's her temp now? If it's still very high it's more likely virus than bacteria in which case antibiotics won't help.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

The healthy part is the concern. Her temp has dropped to 103 the baby is all bone. But I do feel her belly is full. How quickly do.they put weight on.

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Sounds like she was just overheated then. Can you set up an area where she can get under the heat if she wants to, or farther away from it? That way she can start regulating her temperature.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have it set up that way but she wants to sit under it. 

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Her poop is yellow does that idicate anything? 

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Yellow is normal, just watch that it doesn't get super runny.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Wow i hope all my Kids are not this difficult. How do people have huige hurds? is it survival of the fittest? how are goats birthed normally? Or is the normal baby?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Majority of the time it goes textbook. But some does and kids just don't read the book.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

So whats the trick to get the baby on the teet? Will she find it eventually? 

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

She will get a hang of it eventually 


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Its 1235 am eastern. Baby looks better temp 102.6. She ate about 50ml of moms milk. Lots of yellow poop maybe 4 or 5 movements. Standing stronger next to mom. Still no intrest in teet.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It looks like you have a bottle baby but glad she is doing ok.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

sokoservices said:


> Wow i hope all my Kids are not this difficult. How do people have huige hurds? is it survival of the fittest? how are goats birthed normally? Or is the normal baby?


I really don't see how huge herd people do it!! I think if they are not planning on bottle feed. They give their pregnant goats BoSe. U would have given mine BoSe but I never heard about it until a couple days before birth. One of my kids born the mom didnt show interest in it until placenta passed hours later. And I had to sry it off and be the mom. The other mom was clumsy but she did luck off her babies when they were born but she wouldn't let them nurse. I don't know why!! She actually ended up stepping or laying on the only doeling in this kidding season and she was laying in the other ones legs!!! And basically. Crushing them. It was pretty cold that night also so it wasnt a good mix!!

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

My first kidding season 1 doe pregnant was great!!! She had a buck who became herd sire. The next kidding season 2 does pregnant was great!!! Excellent mothers!! This kidding season one was a bad mother, one was good but just had to pass placenta and had a weak kid, unfortunately I would if had another doe due around march but she miscarriaged! and she is my best mother!!! Sweetest calmest goat you will ever meet is her son max 


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

when a baby is weak they wont even try to nurse. We have to get them up and going first. If baby takes too long to get up and nurse, I start them off with a bottle...the most important thing is to get baby up and going strong..once they are then they have time to get the hang of nursing...sometimes squirting a bit of milk in babies mouth from mom will get them excited...mom helps by softly chatting with baby and stimulating their bum..it can be a chore but very worth it when baby nurses on his own. However after a bit of time, as in your case, baby just needs a bottle. The good thing is if mom is wonderful and can raise baby and take care of him other wise... baby can stay with mom and not in the house. In that case I watch baby tummy close, sometimes we find they have started nursing mom! 

As Karen said..most babies get up and nurse with little to no help...: )


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Baby is up.and about. But still wont nurse mom. Its been a week. I milk.her every 5 to 6 hours and baby is gulping it down. I cut the nipple a little bigger and baby feeds well now. So now what. I feel the baby is not getting enough. I milk mom till she.doesnt have anymore. Should I supplement? If so with what? Will baby ever find mom? Very tired of waking up twice a night to feed her. One good thjng is mom and baby communicate and mom sits.with baby. 

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What you do is feed 12 to 15 percent of body weight. You shouldn't have to feed in the middle of the night. You could do 4 bottles per day. I would think if you milk mom 2-3 times per day you should get enough milk to feed your kid.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I am milking and then feeding I cant get a head.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I cant get more than about a 1/4 a time.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Is that 12 to 15 percent per feeding so if she was 5lbs I would feed 12oz per feeding or per day divide that by 4 and its 3oz per feeding?

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

weigh baby and multiply that by 16 to get her weight in OZ then multiply that by 10-12% to see how much PER DAY she needs...then divide that into 3-4 bottles....

at 5# x16= 80 oz
80 oz x 10%=8 oz of milk per day
divide into 4 bottles is 2 oz per bottle...

watch tummy..if she is still sunken in add a bit more...if she is poochy decrease milk...re weight he weekly and re adjust her milk amount..


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

If it has been a week, she will probably always be a bottle baby...


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes a week

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

What about if i spread.out feedings and see if she gets to mom that way

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

At this point its not impossible but less likely mom will take her...If you want to try, and mom is good with her, leave her with mom, check on her often...if she is sunken in, supplement her..if not leave her and check in an hour or so...do not let her go more than a few hours with out checking on her....babies go down hill real fast especially in the cold.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Will the mom even take her back?? And is he latching on?? If she is and the mom will take her back then I would help her find the nipple. If she latches and the mom will let her er whenever I wouldn't even worry about bottle feeding. But make sure that the mom will let her eat an that he is finding the nipple ok!!! And if you want to be safe you could try giving her little doses until she is completely on the moms milk 


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I am milking mom and bottle feeding baby. Ever time I milk mom I try and get baby onto mom. She is not interested. Baby is in a heated barn its 64 in there all the time

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I been feeding every 6 hours. 

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

so moms ok with baby nursing but baby wont nurse?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

So we made progress i think. So last night i went to feed baby and laid mom down as i do to milk her. Baby came over to see what i was going to do. So I took Baby and opened her mouth and pushed her on the teet. Baby latched on and ate. This morning i went back after 8 hours and i did the same thing again baby ate both teets this time. 

What would be my next steps? Are we progressing to a baby that is going to feed off of mom finally?

Mom didnt kick or try to reject the baby, I did have to hold the babys head on the teet for a for minutes and when i let go baby let go also. But she did try and go and find it again.

I am beign hopefull that baby is going to want to nurse mom.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Keep at it, when she starts looking for the teat on her own she will be able to nurse without help. Try to do it with mom standing up though so she learns where the teat will usually be.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would do that every hour to 2 hours.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

it does look promising!!...Keep at it and keep a close watch on her tummy..you want to see it flat but firm not sunken in...


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I would do that every hour to 2 hours.


There is no way i can do it like this. I have afull time job. During the day i have the neighbors farm hand coming over every 4 hours.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

THat is good that you have the neighbor coming over every 4 hours. Lots of repetition is the key.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

So as you probably all know about my kids. And the moms were rejecting the babies. I'm gonna try the same thing, but is there anything that I could do to help make the mom accept it again??


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Baby weighs 4.3lbs. She is now feeding on mom when I tie mom up.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Baby feeding on mom only when mom is tied up.

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Awe I'm so glad she is feeling better 


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you gotten selenium into her?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I got some Goat and Sheep Nutri-Drench. It says it has Selenium. Is that enough? Gave her about 6ml yesterday.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. If you could get the Selenium/Vitamin E gel, that would be good. I just noticed with her back legs she could use some.

She is a cutie pie!


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I looked at the local tractor supply and they didnt have any. All they had was the stuff i got. I will try and order some.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think most people have to order the gel online. I get BoSe from the vet so I have never used it. In the meantime you could use cod liver oil and vitamin E. Get the oil capsules and poke a hole and squirt into her mouth.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Progress today
When I visited her mom got up and walked to baby. Baby immediately began to eat. I felt moms teats and she was empty. Baby was eating by her self... Baby gained .45lbs in 24 hours. Progressing. ...

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats great news...!!!


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Congrats!!! 


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Just checked on baby and mom. Baby must be eatkng becuase mom was empty and baby wasnt hungry. One concern that babys legs seam weak. I have ordered selinium and vitamin e gel. Ill get it tomorrow. Is anything I can get local at the GNC till tomorrow? 

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Cod liver oil and Vitamin E capsules. Poke a hole in them and squirt into mouth.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Get both of these at the vitamin store? How many do I give her?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes, you should be able to get those at any drug store or vitamin store. Just one of each.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

and is it one a day or everytime i go and see her?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Just one time per day. Then once you get the selenium, don't do it.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

and how often do i give the selinium? I hear that Selinum is very toxic to them, but at the same time they need it.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Got home and baby is down and cant walk took her to the vet and her temp is 106.2 the vet thinks she might have some type of spinal problem. Or an infection. Anyone know anything about this. They want to run a blood test on her to test fpr white blood count. 

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Looks like she has some type of infection the doctor is saying the protein was a 5 but her white blood was . elevated. 

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

any swelling in her legs? Joint ill comes to mind..what is she being treated with? how much and how often?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Joint ill comes to my mind too.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Its .30ml of baytril and .20ml.of banamine. Both of those once daily for 5 days

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

AFAIK, joint ill will probably not cause that high of a temp. I would lean towards something viral.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Temp is back to normal it came down quickly after the shot its down to 102.3

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad her temp is back to normal.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Banamine will reduce fever but that doesn't mean that the cause is gone, make sure you keep checking it until she's all better.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

been checking it every few hours still at 102.5. ill give her the shots later this afternoon. I still have to get some small syringes for the BoSe.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Definitely do the full course of antibiotic.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

SO I am reading about Ear Tags and their purpose. So what is Scrapie and should I be concerned? Who has to administer the ear tags?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

We I went tonight to see baby she was up to 5.4lbs from 4.9 yesterday. I gave her her meds and also .50ml of BoSe. 

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I also gave mom 2ml of cdt. How much BoSe for the adults that are about to kid?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

1cc per 40 lbs.

Great that she is gaining weight.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

How ofter can I give her the vitamin b complex. The vet gave her some the other day.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is she eating well and doing ok? It can be done daily for a little while but you want to be careful how long you do it.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Baby is still down. She is eating and gaining wait though. Will she ever walk again? Her temp was elevated again to day to 104.3 I gave her the baytril and banamine again im worried that she will never walk again. She weighs 5.85lbs now.

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

sokoservices said:


> SO I am reading about Ear Tags and their purpose. So what is Scrapie and should I be concerned? Who has to administer the ear tags?


Scrapie is a wasting disease of sheep and goats. Once you have registered your premise, you can get the ear tags from APHIS and put them in yourself. The tags are free, and they will send you an applicator.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/area_offices/downloads/FAQ about the Scrapie Program.pdf


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Well she is still down. But she is gaining weight. What can this be? Been givkng her that baytril.and banamine for 4 days now. Doesnt look like she is getting better. Her temp this morning is 103.0

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would stop the Banamine. Keep doing Baytril. I'm really not sure what is going on.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

She may need a different antibiotic.....
sending prayers your way


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I am trying everything I can do to keep her and make her comfortable. She is eating just fine and communicating with mom, she just cant walk. I think I call the vet back and see what they recommend.

Let me add that she did walk the first few days when I was bottle feeding her. She just one day went down and didn't get back up.

I hope she will bounce back


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I have been silently following this thread. Hoping she makes great improvements for you.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Has anyone else experienced this problem with the goat not being able to walk?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have been reading more about BoSe, and white muscle disease, how often can I give it to the baby? I have read somewhere I can give it daily until she is better. I think this is completely wrong? Anyone else ever heard this?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Bose is a one time/ yearly dose. Twice if absolutely necessary. I currently have a bottle baby with weak, mal-positioned legs. He has been that way since birth. See my thread- bottle baby feeding help needed. 
I don't think we have the same thing going on though. 

I do believe the vet can take a blood sample and let you know their selenium levels...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

PM goathiker. She would be the one who can answer that. May even have some other suggestions for you.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

What state are you in? 
Has this doe had loose minerals with a high amount of copper during her pregnancy or copper bolus?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

In Virginia

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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had a lamb with WMD....I gave her 1/4 cc BoSe day one, 1/2 cc with extra Vit e day two...then a week late I gave another 1/2 cc...Not sure if I could have given more, but she is tons better...still a little stiff but tons better!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I just read the whole thread...Does her legs just seem weak or are they stiff and swollen? is her navel swollen? Have you tried splinting the legs to support her?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Her legs are just weak. Everything else looks normal.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is what I feed everone.

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

And this

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What mineral do you use?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have one of those white salt blocks out there for them and also I have bought a few times the brown goat mineral block, but I found they don't really eat it.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Of course I give as much hay as they want.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Ok. You really need a good loose mineral. They are probably mineral deficient. Manna Pro Goat Mineral, Sweetlix Meatmaker 16 : 8, ADM Dairy Goat Minerals and Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Minerals are some of the good minerals out there. Kelp is another good thing to give in addition to the minerals.

Your little one is probably copper deficient too.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I suspect that your kids have/had Swayback. It is a condition caused by copper deficient mothers. It can be gotten in utero or later onset. Where White Muscle Disease causes lesions in the muscles, Swayback causes lesions in the brain stem and related features. That can cause a bewildering display of symptoms. If you have the inclination, keep working with her doing some physical therapy to keep her muscles working. Her brain and nerves will heal to some extent. Think of it like having to teach another part of the brain to take over the job of walking. You do that by showing it how to walk over and over. 
It doesn't seem to a painful disease. This is, of course only my opinion bases on your thread...


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> Ok. You really need a good loose mineral. They are probably mineral deficient. Manna Pro Goat Mineral, Sweetlix Meatmaker 16 : 8, ADM Dairy Goat Minerals and Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Minerals are some of the good minerals out there. Kelp is another good thing to give in addition to the minerals.
> 
> Your little one is probably copper deficient too.


 Do I sprinkle the mineral on the food when I give it to them?

How do I get the little one from being deficient?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

goathiker said:


> I suspect that your kids have/had Swayback. It is a condition caused by copper deficient mothers. It can be gotten in utero or later onset. Where White Muscle Disease causes lesions in the muscles, Swayback causes lesions in the brain stem and related features. That can cause a bewildering display of symptoms. If you have the inclination, keep working with her doing some physical therapy to keep her muscles working. Her brain and nerves will heal to some extent. Think of it like having to teach another part of the brain to take over the job of walking. You do that by showing it how to walk over and over.
> It doesn't seem to a painful disease. This is, of course only my opinion bases on your thread...


How to I make sure that the other moms are not copper deficient? How can I get this little one back from being deficient?


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

No advice on the baby, but you should leave loose minerals with high levels of copper and selenium out free choice at all times, as much as they want. Sometimes that still isn't enough and you will need to give copper boluses and BoSe a few times yearly.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

please explain boluses, where do I get these? what are they?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I keep my mineral out free choice. That way they can eat what they need. I still have to give copper bolus and BoSe shots at least twice a year because it is so deficient here. 

With the little one, I'm not sure how to best supplement her. I have never had to copper one so young. I give a BoSe shot the day after they are born and I also give mom a BoSe shot about a month prior to kidding so I have my kids covered there. I also copper bolus mom a month prior to kidding so the copper is ok in my kids.

The pregnant girls you could copper bolus and give a Bose shot. You can't go crazy and give them too much to try and make up for it. But getting a good loose goat mineral and the copper boluses would be a great start.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

http://www.scbt.com/datasheet-363567-ultracruz-goat-copper-bolus.html

You give it to them whole down their throat and it slowly releases copper over the course of a few months.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

sokoservices said:


> please explain boluses, where do I get these? what are they?


Boluses are usually pills. You can buy copper bolus pills in the goat size or you can buy them in cattle size and then open up the pill and divide up the copper. It is copper wire particles that are in the pill and they slow release copper into their system. Jeffers or Santa Cruz have the copper bolus pills.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

As far as the free choice, how do I give it, I don't have a covered area in the field to give them this. I don't have a barn yet either. can someone take a picture of how they are offering it to them?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is a problem. My minerals are in my barn. If you could create a shelter area to put them, that would work. Some type of roof over the mineral feeder. I just use the 2 dish mineral feeder and it is attached to my panels.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Google goat mineral feeder. There are a lot of pictures of different ways.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

Any commments on the fact she did walk and then went down hill from there?

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I disagree with this being just mineral deficiency. With her fever and elevated white blood count I would say this is still infection and either she's still recovering or the meds were not effective. Have you talked to the vet again, and are you still checking her temp?


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

I have nopt called the vet again. I have been taking her temps every time I go there and keeping a log. Her temps have been normal from 102.3 to 103.5 constantly. She has gained more weight and broke the 6lb mark yesterday. She was 5.75lbs at 7am yesterday morning and this morning she is 6.15lbs. at 7am.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

To make a mineral feeder:

To make one all you need is a 3 ft. piece of 4-inch schedule 40 PCV pipe, A "Y" adapter, and a cap. Glue the "Y" adapter to the bottom of the pipe. Cut a piece of pipe 3 or 4 inches long and glue it to the bottom of the "Y" adapter and then glue the cap to it. I then use metal banding (you can buy at True Value) and some self-tapping screws and mount the pipe to the wall. Fill it up with minerals and they will eat them out of the open end of the "Y" adaptor. As they eat, the minerals will flow down the pipe and keep the "Y" adapter full.

Here is a link to a pic of the mineral feeder.

http://www.goatsandhopes.com/2013/11/22/housing-swap/

You will need some type of roof over this.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I do put a cap on the top of mine though.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

what about water getting into the open part of the "Y" where they will eat from?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I would talk to vet again. If this is still the result of infection she could be permanently crippled.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

sokoservices said:


> what about water getting into the open part of the "Y" where they will eat from?


That is why you will need it under roof. Mine is in my barn. If you can even put just a small roof off of a building or just four poles in the ground with this under it, it can work. It must be covered though. Any type of mineral should be kept dry, even salt blocks or mineral blocks. Otherwise, when they get rained on, you are losing minerals into the ground...


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

any luck with sprinkling it on the food when I feed them?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Not so much. They will only eat what they need from the mineral feeders. If you are putting it on their feed, you may give them more than they need or even overdose it. 

Eventually you will be getting a shelter built for them right? Until then, you could maybe sprinkle it. I am not certain of how much. You will need to wait for someone else to chime in on that.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

sokoservices said:


> any luck with sprinkling it on the food when I feed them?


You can do that. The problem is that they won't get what they need. When they have free choice, they can eat a lot or a little. They seem to know when they need more or less. If that is your only choice for now, it is better than nothing. But if you could find a way to give them free choice it will be much better.

I don't know how big your herd is and if you can easily catch them. The other option is to buy Replamin Plus and give it to them weekly. You give 5cc weekly. It comes in a big tube and you buy the gun to go with it which has a 5cc option on it so it is very easy to give. My goats love it and all I have to do is hold it out and they fight over who gets some.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Goats can't live in the rain. They need shelter and before you quote me the natural living stuff. Goats only have one common ancestor that they can breed with. They were domesticated 6000 years ago and have been dependent on man ever since. The Romans in 500 BC hand picked grains for their goats. They haven't been natural creatures for a very long time.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

They do have little houses out in the field. I have a few of the dog igloo houses and also some other houses out there.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Are any of the other houses, besides the dog igloos, able to house the minerals? If not, build a small shelter for the minerals. Your goats will eventually need more than the dog houses. Especially if you are going to breed and have kids. Plan on places for minerals, baking soda, covered hay areas, etc., when planning their shelter in the future.


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

This kid has now passed away

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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm very sorry. I know you worked so hard to save her.


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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

I forgot to say, if at all possible get a necropsy done on the kid. That is the only way to to know for sure what ailed her. If the body is fresh, put it in the fridge.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry you lost her.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm soo sry :'(


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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

How much does that cost?

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## sokoservices (Aug 14, 2013)

What do I have to do to mom to dry her up?

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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I am so sorry you lost her. I have been rooting for you guys! 
The doe will dry up on her own. Day one, if she gets too swollen and uncomfortable, milk her out once or twice. Day two, milk once. Day three, let her be. Save and freeze milk in case you need to feed any future kids.

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## FarmerInaDress (Mar 15, 2013)

Cost for necropsy depends on the vet, you just have to call and ask.


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