# To wether or not meat kids?



## littlespot101 (Oct 2, 2017)

Hello-

Those of you who raise meat goats, do you wether your bucklings? 

I have always wethered mine and not weaned them until they are 6 months old. I have been told by the salebarn and another buyer that the buyers do not care if they are wethers or bucks if sold under a year old. 

Now that I have larger numbers and it has been a very wet year, I am heavily thinking of weaning and selling the kids sooner. Not banding would also save a lot of labor. 

Also, if you do not wether your bucklings, at what age do you wean and do you wean the doelings at the same time?

Any info is very much appreciated! I've found the best way to learn is from others experiences as well as your own


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## Heathersboergoats (Feb 18, 2019)

I band mine anytime past 8 weeks and normally let them nurse till there 3 or 4 months


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

I've never raised a kid for meat (only ever use for meat if they are not suitable for breeding or have a disease, by then they are always adults already) 

However, I recently read this when searching the topic of urinary calculi and goats banded too early(that's a whole different subject though)

It is generally recommended that lambs and kids be castrated between 1 and 7 days of age, especially if rubber bands are used. The better recommendation might be for producers to carefully consider whether it is necessary or desirable to castrate ram lambs and buck kids. Intact males grow faster and produce leaner carcasses, and there is no difference between the meat from a young intact male and a castrated lamb or kid.

I definitely think there is some truth to this. Intact bucklings grow quicker and if you plan to slaughter at or before 1yo I wouldn't think there would be a difference in taste at all. Again, never raised a meat goat from beginning to end, so this is just my thought on it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I band when they are worse buck material than is typically around me. Other than that I don't band.

Buck quality is poor in my immediate area, so if they buy one of my bucklings at an auction, when I plan for them to go to meat but I know they could be used for someone's herd instead, I don't want to give them something that is going to be worse than they already have available for that purpose.

But if it is better than is currently around me, then I see the possibility that my meat goat will improve someone's herd first, and I'm OK with that.

I rarely band now... because my quality is so much better now.

I honestly do not taste anything bad in the meat from a young buck vs a young wether. It certainly does not taste worse than a venison buck, and who wethers the deer on their property?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I wouldn’t bother banding them as long as there is no risk of them breeding your does. Bucks do grow faster then wethers but also there is going to be a few days, possibly longer depending on how they take it, that the boys are going to be unhappy and not eat as well as they should. With meat animals your getting paid for their weight so even being behind let’s say 5 pounds that can be as much as $15 a head. That can add up fast. Now if you were to get docked because they were bucks sure it would be worth it, but it’s not the case for you. 
Now personally I don’t wean my meat kids. Same as with banding there is no point In stressing them. Also the highest price per pound is 60-70 pounds so I see no point in keeping them longer then 3-4 months old. So they are pulled at that age and sent to the sale. But that is me and my management, I don’t stay green all year long and I don’t have the pen space to keep them longer then that even if I wanted to. So really it depends on what age you are selling your kids on what you might do. If it’s young and the boys are intact then I wouldn’t bother weaning at all. If your only going to hold them over for a month-ish and your doe kids are going to be butchered then to be frank it’s not going to matter if they have been running with the bucks. If you want to hang onto them longer then that then it might be worth it in the long run to split something in half and keep the doe kids and bucks apart. Or you might find that it is just easier for you to go ahead and just band the boys and wean them all at the same time together


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> I wouldn't bother banding them as long as there is no risk of them breeding your does. Bucks do grow faster then wethers but also there is going to be a few days, possibly longer depending on how they take it, that the boys are going to be unhappy and not eat as well as they should. With meat animals your getting paid for their weight so even being behind let's say 5 pounds that can be as much as $15 a head. That can add up fast. Now if you were to get docked because they were bucks sure it would be worth it, but it's not the case for you.
> Now personally I don't wean my meat kids. Same as with banding there is no point In stressing them. Also the highest price per pound is 60-70 pounds so I see no point in keeping them longer then 3-4 months old. So they are pulled at that age and sent to the sale. But that is me and my management, I don't stay green all year long and I don't have the pen space to keep them longer then that even if I wanted to. So really it depends on what age you are selling your kids on what you might do. If it's young and the boys are intact then I wouldn't bother weaning at all. If your only going to hold them over for a month-ish and your doe kids are going to be butchered then to be frank it's not going to matter if they have been running with the bucks. If you want to hang onto them longer then that then it might be worth it in the long run to split something in half and keep the doe kids and bucks apart. Or you might find that it is just easier for you to go ahead and just band the boys and wean them all at the same time together


I'm not really raising mine for sale for meat. But I'm still curious about the economics. Can I ask how much your able to sell them for and who's buying g them?


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## littlespot101 (Oct 2, 2017)

Thank you all for the information!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ScottE said:


> I'm not really raising mine for sale for meat. But I'm still curious about the economics. Can I ask how much your able to sell them for and who's buying g them?


Sure! Most of the buyers are people who do their own butchering. The guy who usually buys my kids, he buys and then sells direct to the packers. This year I hit it right before May 5th so he couldn't afford to buy any of my kids, the (what I call them) home owners bought them all for that weekend to butcher. There's a few other big buyers that buy and then resell to people who want to butcher their own but don't want to go to the sale. My doelings usually end up going to buyers wanting breeding stock, but I usually sell out of the doelings three private sales. In late winter early spring there are buyers that just have a few acres that they want to buy the goats to graze it off before it dries out and resell them for more money later. That's usually when prices are the highest, more demand but really not that many animals because that means kidding in the fall. 
But prices, this sale actually sells by the head but I weigh them before they leave. I haven't sat down and figured my average this year but my highest selling wether (and they don't care if it's bucks or wethers here either) was 68.2 pounds and I got 189.50 low selling was $135 and 60.8 pounds. My doelings I only had 1 to sell this year and she was $190 and 65.6 pounds. If I wait till after May 5th then prices plummet badly till the first of the year so the time of the year plays a part here in prices as well.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

SandyNubians said:


> Intact males grow faster


And get bigger. If you want to keep them with their mothers, there is a nice seller of APRONS in this forum. I made my aprons myself, it worked fine, but the specially made are both better and more esthetic! (And more expensive. On the other hand, you will be able to use them year after year. Mine got worn out before it was slaughter time.

I did not think much of the meat before they were in my freezer, but IF you want some really nice meat for grinding, do consider the nice neck of an intact buck! In my household, I seldom sold meat, but when I did, it was by the kg.

And, oh, I do not think I have seen you before. Very nice to meet you!


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> Sure! Most of the buyers are people who do their own butchering. The guy who usually buys my kids, he buys and then sells direct to the packers. This year I hit it right before May 5th so he couldn't afford to buy any of my kids, the (what I call them) home owners bought them all for that weekend to butcher. There's a few other big buyers that buy and then resell to people who want to butcher their own but don't want to go to the sale. My doelings usually end up going to buyers wanting breeding stock, but I usually sell out of the doelings three private sales. In late winter early spring there are buyers that just have a few acres that they want to buy the goats to graze it off before it dries out and resell them for more money later. That's usually when prices are the highest, more demand but really not that many animals because that means kidding in the fall.
> But prices, this sale actually sells by the head but I weigh them before they leave. I haven't sat down and figured my average this year but my highest selling wether (and they don't care if it's bucks or wethers here either) was 68.2 pounds and I got 189.50 low selling was $135 and 60.8 pounds. My doelings I only had 1 to sell this year and she was $190 and 65.6 pounds. If I wait till after May 5th then prices plummet badly till the first of the year so the time of the year plays a part here in prices as well.


Thanks! I come from a finance background. And while I'm loving goats and enjoying learning about health and husbandry, the economics of agriculture and small farms is something that is still fascinating to me. And for some reason so many people feel that talking about dollar amounts is some how taboo.

Like it blows my mind that people are willing to pay $15/gallon for raw goats milk around here.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> And get bigger. If you want to keep them with their mothers, there is a nice seller of APRONS in this forum. I made my aprons myself, it worked fine, but the specially made are both better and more esthetic! (And more expensive. On the other hand, you will be able to use them year after year. Mine got worn out before it was slaughter time.
> 
> I did not think much of the meat before they were in my freezer, but IF you want some really nice meat for grinding, do consider the nice neck of an intact buck! In my household, I seldom sold meat, but when I did, it was by the kg.
> 
> And, oh, I do not think I have seen you before. Very nice to meet you!


Is there a trick for getting more meat from close to the bone? I found the ne ks to be a huge pain and mostly just ended up in the stock l pot. Granted the only boys 8ve butchered so far where ND and only about 40lbs live weight... got about 20lbs of meat barely worth the time spent.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

ScottE said:


> Is there a trick for getting more meat from close to the bone? I found the necks to be a huge pain and mostly just ended up in the stock l pot. Granted the only boys 8ve butchered so far where ND and only about 40lbs live weight... got about 20lbs of meat barely worth the time spent.


Haha, I do agree, and this is a test or joke people working in butcheries use on newcomers. "Cut the meat from this neckbone, and quickly! Make sure the bone is clean!"

I prefer to cut what I get from that neck, and on a full-grown buck it is not little. Then the bones go to a "Bone Rattle Pot", to make very nice broth.

But, of course, mine were slightly bigger than Dwarfs. 40lbs ≈ 18 kgs, right? Butchering dwarf goats must be similar to butchering rabbits ... These are cooked with bones here, often on BBQs. And the meat falls nicely into your mouth when you gnaw! Yum!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ScottE said:


> Thanks! I come from a finance background. And while I'm loving goats and enjoying learning about health and husbandry, the economics of agriculture and small farms is something that is still fascinating to me. And for some reason so many people feel that talking about dollar amounts is some how taboo.
> 
> Like it blows my mind that people are willing to pay $15/gallon for raw goats milk around here.


Oh yeah prices, how many acres, or how many head of animals one has is a very no no questions to ask and I was raised that they are no no's. I think because people feel that when asked this someone is trying to kinda size them up on what is in the bank. I don't see it that way. I see it as total curiosity and nothing more.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

ScottE said:


> Is there a trick for getting more meat from close to the bone? I found the ne ks to be a huge pain and mostly just ended up in the stock l pot. Granted the only boys 8ve butchered so far where ND and only about 40lbs live weight... got about 20lbs of meat barely worth the time spent.


If you got 50% live weight in cut meat then you did very well. That's a high yield carcass despite the small size. 35% is more common when they are processed into cuts & packaged.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@littlespot101 
I do not wether the meat bucklings. I do my very best to ensure they are only used for butchering when I sell them. I don't run intact bucklings that are not breeding quality through auction here because many many many people buy breeding animals at our local auction. We just put 4 fourteen month old buckling into our freezer, the flavor is equivalent to doe & wether meat. We don't have them processed during rut.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> If you got 50% live weight in cut meat then you did very well. That's a high yield carcass despite the small size. 35% is more common when they are processed into cuts & packaged.


Well that's me measuring the legs with bone in, and counting the heart, liver and kidneys cause i like to eat em if if the rest of my family isn't on board yet.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh yeah prices, how many acres, or how many head of animals one has is a very no no questions to ask and I was raised that they are no no's. I think because people feel that when asked this someone is trying to kinda size them up on what is in the bank. I don't see it that way. I see it as total curiosity and nothing more.


The taboo on talking about finances has always super annoyed me. I've been friends with people making half a million a year and friends with people that make 20k. Doesn't make em better or worse.

The worst part is the huge amount of financial ignorance kids graduate college with, no idea how to deal with credit cards or balance a check, book, or get a home loan. And I think a large part of it it that parents feel a taboo to talk about those things, and there are no older mentors to discuss with.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

SalteyLove said:


> 35% is more common when they are processed into cuts & packaged.


Yup!


ScottE said:


> Well that's me measuring the legs with bone in, and counting the heart, liver and kidneys cause i like to eat em if if the rest of my family isn't on board yet.


And tongue!  But not the rest of the head.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It depends on the situation. 
I band when needed. 
But, now that I found a meat buyer down the road, who is USDA, I don't have to band them. 
He doesn't care if they are intact or not.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

ScottE said:


> Well that's me measuring the legs with bone in, and counting the heart, liver and kidneys cause i like to eat em if if the rest of my family isn't on board yet.





Trollmor said:


> Yup!And tongue!  But not the rest of the head.


I'm going to do the tongue and head cheese on the next batch I butcher. And I forgot about the several pounds of tallow we got (which is honestly AWESOME tallow, we basically don't need to buy cooking oil or hand lotion anymore) But I had to get my feet wet first before I went and dove off the deep end. I'd thought about trying to do blood pudding but trying to cleanly collect the blood seems too difficult and honestly, there is way less blood than I expected there to be. Hollywood gore kinda sets your expectation wrong for what real butchering is like.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

ScottE said:


> there is way less blood than I expected there to be. Hollywood gore kinda sets your expectation wrong for what real butchering is like.


I LIKE you! LOLOL. SHAME on Hollywood for raising our expectations!

We catch blood and dump it in to be composted, so it does get used eventually. I don't have to keep it clean for that, so it is easier.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

The following bold words I do not find in the dictionary:


ScottE said:


> I'm going to do the tongue and head *cheese* on the next batch I butcher.
> But I had to *get my feet wet* first before I went and *dove off the deep end*.
> *Hollywood gore* kinda sets your expectation wrong for what real butchering is like.


Tallow from goats is not my favourite taste, but very good for technical use. Blood is a special thing. If you are interested, maybe we could try to find out how the Sames do. I think they dry it. From an economical point of view, do not forget the skin! And, if you are on the niche market, remember hair, hoofs, horns (there I go again!) - you name it!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Head Cheese is a conglomeration mish mash of head meat/gristle chunky bits. Many recipes also include the brain, but many do not.

Hollywood, a name known for where most big budget films are made, is known for special effects, such as plenty of Gore (blood and guts) A gory murder would be like using an axe or chainsaw, rather than just a bullet in the back.

To get your feet wet would be to try something in a small way, or in stages, and Jumping (or going) off the deep end (of a swimming pool), means to just jump into a complex undertaking without getting any comfort or experience with the small pieces first.

So getting your feet wet would be like wading into cold water in order to let your body get used to the temperature, and jumping off the deep end would be to just jump in and let the cold shock your whole body.

Getting your feet wet would be following a recipe for sugar cookies. Jumping off the deep end would be buying all the supplies to make your own elaborate wedding cake for your wedding in 3 days and you haven't cooked fancy stuff before and don't know decorating techniques.

Sometimes going off the deep end works well, like in getting used to cold swimming water. Sometimes getting your feet wet works better, such as learning individual skills before taking on a huge complex topic.

Hope this helps.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, mariarose, it helped a lot!  Such sayings might be among the hardest to learn in a foreign language, because it is so difficult to look them up!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Yes, Idioms do not translate to other languages. I can't even imagine the gibberish I'd utter if I tried to speak Swedish! Even without idioms!!!


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

ScottE said:


> Is there a trick for getting more meat from close to the bone? I found the ne ks to be a huge pain and mostly just ended up in the stock l pot. Granted the only boys 8ve butchered so far where ND and only about 40lbs live weight... got about 20lbs of meat barely worth the time spent.


Since you are interested in the economics I'll share my experience. I raise Nigerians. It makes no economic sense to eat the boys.
I can sell wethers as pets for $100 at 8 weeks old. Approximately 20 lbs.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

mariarose said:


> Head Cheese is a conglomeration mish mash of head meat/gristle chunky bits. Many recipes also include the brain, but many do not.
> 
> Hollywood, a name known for where most big budget films are made, is known for special effects, such as plenty of Gore (blood and guts) A gory murder would be like using an axe or chainsaw, rather than just a bullet in the back.
> 
> ...


LOL, I never thought about just how full of idioms our language is... or maybe it's just me. tHanks for translating!


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> Since you are interested in the economics I'll share my experience. I raise Nigerians. It makes no economic sense to eat the boys.
> I can sell wethers as pets for $100 at 8 weeks old. Approximately 20 lbs.


Do you have a primary buyer or just list them on classified?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> It makes no economic sense to eat the boys.
> I can sell wethers as pets for $100


It might make sense in a situation where a breeder is ethically opposed to pet sales, or there is no market for pet sales, or someone has enough money coming in but her focus is upon raising all her own food more organically and close to home because of carbon footprint issues.

Granted, to you, pet sales are the way to go. $100.00 at 20 lbs is way better than a sharp stick in the eye and makes great sense.. In other situations, it may not be the needed "fit".


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

ScottE said:


> Do you have a primary buyer or just list them on classified?


Classifieds. Craigslist, Facebook.
We had 21 doe kids and 11 buck kids this year. It was a better than average year for doe kids.
Maybe 1 or 2 of the buck kids will be sold as herd sires. I'm actually not marketing any as bucks but there are a couple that people have inquired about that I would sell intact. The remainder will be sold as pets.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> 11 buck kids this year.


Nice paycheck!

I also had mostly doelings.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

mariarose said:


> It might make sense in a situation where a breeder is ethically opposed to pet sales, or there is no market for pet sales, or someone has enough money coming in but her focus is upon raising all her own food more organically and close to home because of carbon footprint issues.
> 
> Granted, to you, pet sales are the way to go. $100.00 at 20 lbs is way better than a sharp stick in the eye and makes great sense.. In other situations, it may not be the needed "fit".


ScottE asked about economics, and I said I was sharing "my experience".


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

mariarose said:


> Nice paycheck!
> 
> I also had mostly doelings.


The doelngs sell for much more. Not sure how many of them we will sell this year. Most though.


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

IHEARTGOATS said:


> ScottE asked about economics, and I said I was sharing "my experience".


Yeah thanks! It blows my mind that so many people buy goats purely as pets.


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