# To pull him or not to pull him...



## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Ok, I have a 2 day old boer buckling that mom just can't seem to understand is hers. She head butts him, hooks him with her horns and tosses him, won't let him nurse unless I am holding her against a fence, etc. I have yet to see her voluntarily stand still to let him nurse off her, before she runs off. 

I have tried confining them in a pen where the kid can "escape" if he needs to if mom gets too rough. With all of that said, he is pretty healthy and spunky, loud and has quite a bit of attitude and energy. Is he getting milk when I am not seeing? I dunno what to do.

I am torn between leaving him to see if she takes him (which I am seriously doubting she will) or taking him and milking her wild butt a few times a day and bottling him... I can say this, he is a GORGEOUS solid mahogany and I will more than likely be retaining him for my herd as he is related to no one on my farm. I don't think mama will be staying once he is weaned. Also, I think he has a crush on me...every time he sees me coming, I've never seen a baby goat run so fast to me in my life! LOL!!!

Thanks in advance for your help! Any thoughts would be great!!!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I would pull him, and cull her. A doe hooking her kid with her horns is not a good situation, and could very easily get him hurt. I would be willing to bet he is running to you because he knows you're a safe haven and you will protect him. Get him away from her and send her packing!


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## FriendlyFainterFarm (Mar 2, 2014)

I agree with MsScamp, it could be dangerous if you leave the kid with his mom, so I would pull him and milk the mom like you said  Better to be safe then sorry, good luck!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I had a similar situation last week with a first time doe. I figured it out on the third day. He was sneaking in to the next kidding jug and nursing off another doe. Therefore, he no longer smelled like his dam and she rejected him. The dam is raising the twin quite well so I am planning on giving her a second chance but one wrong move next spring and she's culled. I did have to sell the rejected buckling as a bottle baby since neither doe was interested in letting him nurse and his dam was very violent to him - throwing with horns and she bit off a piece of one of his ears!

Do you have any other kids he can be housed with outside and then just bring him a bottle 3-4 times a day? A bottle fed breeding buck is NOT at the top of my list when they mature so if he could live and learn with other goats it would lessen his attachment to you just slightly.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I would pull him before she kills him. I had a kid get killed one year by another doe hooking or smashing him, didn't see it happen but when I sent him in for a necropsy it came back as blunt force trauma. Poor kid was fine one minute and dead the next.


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

Pull the kid. 
Is she a first timer? Thats the important question to know before culling her. First time moms get a pass here, but we pay close attention next go round....any problems with parenting that time, and they do go. I've had some terrible first time moms, everything from dropping them in their sacks and leaving them there, to what you described. The following year, they are great moms more often than not. Sometimes, it can take a week or more to get them to click. We will continue to try with a neglectful mom, but in this case, she is dangerous to him. 
If this is not her first kid, and if her udder is in good shape and not causing her pain, I would cull her, personally. Good luck with your boy!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I was afraid to say what I was thinking. (Pull the kid and cull the mom.) But since it is the general consensus I will agree. If you do not have plenty of does you could give her another chance but I would not.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yep ff or not she would be gone. I can see her being a little confused why its trying to touch her in a place that's never been touched before but this sounds like she down right wants to kill him to keep him away. Being a good mother is no if ands or butts around here. Now if you choose to not cull her I wouldn't play the middle man. I would hold her and let the kid nurse....but be warned I did this once....for the WHOLE 3 months of those kids life. But I wanted the kids and didn't want to pay the high price of milk.


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Yep. She's a FF but she cleaned the kid beautifully and took him on at first. Then he tried to nurse and all went to heck. I think she's going back where she came from. And I definitely agree that he needs to be socially accepted with his herd over me. As soon as he's weaned, I no longer exist except when hay arrives morning and night. THANKS SO MUCH EVERYBODY!!!!!!! ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!


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## utahgal (Sep 16, 2012)

Was Momma a bottle baby? Just wondering. We had 2 Nubian bottle babies. One was OK, but the other dropped her twins and never looked back. Luckily we were out with them and seen what happened. Last year, she had quads. She cleaned them, THEN walked away. In December she was the subject of a dog attack and had to put her down. Sometimes bottled moms have problems nursing cause no one was there to teach them that nursing is part of life.


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

You know I'm not sure. I got her from a friend and she isn't sure of the doe's history as she was a yearling when she got her. Interesting theory though!


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

You know I'm not sure. I got her from a friend who is not sure of the doe's history as she was a yearling when she got her. Interesting theory though!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

utahgal said:


> Was Momma a bottle baby? Just wondering. We had 2 Nubian bottle babies. One was OK, but the other dropped her twins and never looked back. Luckily we were out with them and seen what happened. Last year, she had quads. She cleaned them, THEN walked away. In December she was the subject of a dog attack and had to put her down. Sometimes bottled moms have problems nursing cause no one was there to teach them that nursing is part of life.


Whether a doe was bottle raised or dam raised does not effect their mothering instinct in any way - it is inherited and they either have it or they don't. Some of my best mothers were bottle raised, and all of my worst mothers were dam raised. While goats are incredibly smart animals, they are not capable of conscience thought and they shouldn't need to be "taught" how to raise their kids - it is instinct.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I agree ^^ and was just going to say the same thing  All of my dairy does were bottle raised and will clean their babies when they have them, they would let them nurse if I left the kids with them. I had one last year that was trying to clean her kids before they were even born lol she was quite flexible 

FF or not I would get rid of her, no point in taking a chance next year there are plenty of does out there that are excellent moms the first time to put up with ones that aren't.


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Oh he's MUCH happier now!!!  As for mama being a bottle baby herself, I couldn't say. My friend who I got her from only got her as a yearling so we really don't know. Good theory though!


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Well, since I pulled him, he is gaining weight and he's very pushy. LOL! Mom is very abusive to the other kids in the pasture so she will be going as soon as I wean this little man. I am milking her a couple times a day, so he is getting colostrum. He is a REALLY good looking kid. I just hope he doesn't turn into a monster since he's being bottled. I'd really like to keep him for breeding at least a couple seasons. *CROSSING FINGERS!!!* 

I just wanted to thank everyone again for your help and advice. Once again, this forum has proven invaluable! Take care!!! Oh, and by the way, my mom has named him Banjo. LOL! Somehow, it fits.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing better.


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## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Just wanted to let everyone know that "Banjo" is doing wonderfully...and he is obnoxious and my mom loves him and I will be castrating him any day now. LOL!!! He is now her pet. Total bottle baby boy. Thanks again everyone!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad it worked out!


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