# Hay Prices



## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I just got off the phone with the lady who was going to help me with some hay. She usually gets hay donated to her every year from one guy. She runs a horse and dog rescue here. He bales about 400 ton a year. Well, not only did she pay $180 a ton for her own personal hay, he told her that he would not be donating any this year. AND the price is going up!

I asked her if she happened to ask why he wasn't donating and why the price of hay is so high (in some places it can get to $300 a ton :shocked: ) She said she did ask...it is because he is selling his hay to JAPAN! Yep, you heard right. The japanese are paying high dollar for hay right now so most of the hay dealers are selling to them. At least here on the west coast. 

I remember this happening last year also. The hay growers sold to Japan and China, hay prices here went up. THEN, because some weeds were found in the hay that are not indiginous to those countries, they declined the hay. And what happened to this hay you ask? Well, most of it sat on the docks and went moldy! Soooo, instead of being able to feed our own livestock, the hay farmers lost right along with us! Tell me how this makes any sense. If hay prices go up because of drought conditions or gas prices, I can see and understand that! But to sell feed to other countries when you know that there are animals HERE that need it...well, that is unacceptable in my book!

So, it is better to sell hay to other countries because it goes for who knows how high a price...can we say greed...we here have to pay the price. Whether it is in not being able to feed our own or finding some way to get rid of them. I am in this position right now. I need homes for at least 2 horses. I am going to butcher the wether I wanted to keep so it is one less mouth to feed. AND I still have to find a way to buy hay for the winter without selling my soul. 

Sorry, had to vent.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

WOW....that really sucks....


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

We are facing the same delemna for winter feed. We buy from a small producer but he has been able to hike his prices because the big guys are shipping their's here, there and everywhere. He is of course happy because last year he could not give it away. If we were not repeat customers it would be worse. He holds out 20-30 bales each cutting for us and the rest gets snatched up quick.
We are actually looking at having to sell or butcher does. And that really upsets me. 
I dread to see what the feed store price will be by January. It got up to $16/bale last year.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

You have to take into consideration how much time and money farmers put into hay. Equiptment, leased/purchased property, irrigation...irrigation supplies, twine, fuel, labor, breakdowns, etc. The list goes on and on. In the last few years things have significantly increased to grow hay. Just because hay prices have increased doesn't mean the farmers are making more money on it. Greed for increasing their prices...I think not. And most hay dealers are most certainly not selling to Japan. Many of these large hay operations sell straight to cattle dairies or feedlots. Yes some goes for export, but most, absolutely not.

I would be absolutely beside myself if I had someone donate hay... rescue or not...that's an extremely selfless thing to do. If he's a farmer especially...something has to pay the bills and donating hay definately will not. $180 a ton for premium export hay is well worth the price...generally you'd be looking at about $200 a ton right now so i'd be happy. I'm sorry you're upset, but take it from a hay grower and user...if you knew just what it took to grow the hay... you wouldn't complain. Us hay farmers aren't making much though it may look like that from a buyers perspective.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I was not intentionally meaning to say all hay farmers are doing this...but, this guy is. This rescue depends on a certain amount of donated items. Yes hay is high, but it was the same price at the end of last year here. Different areas of course have different ways of pricing their hay. Like I think Kentucky is still low. Even in WA the prices vary depending on where you are.

I got upset because this guy does not irrigate, it's dry land hay. To my knowledge he already has raised his prices to meet his costs...fuel, twine, etc, which I agree with. But, to hear that a guy like this, who has donated to this rescue for several years, has now decided to sell his hay to another country...well, that irks me. I just feel that we need to take care of our own first..if there is a huge supply, then by all means sell outside. But, there is not huge supply right now. With weather as it is and prices on everything going up...well, us first is all I am saying. AND his prices are going up because he has the oppertunity to sell outside this country, so I am sure he wants to make the same profit here. I may be wrong. I hope I am!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Well, I guess that just doesn't and wouldn't irk me off because I know where he's coming from. Yes, it would be nice if we could keep all the hay in our country and sell it to individual buyers, but if you had to make a living growing crops, you'd want to get the most you could for your hay and sell it all at once. If you grew your own hay for a living, would you rather sell it at $180 a ton to individual buyers or sell it for $250 a ton to one buyer? It's a no brainer. My guess would be that he needs the extra money this year...that's why he can't donate to the rescue right now. And how can you blame him for that...who doesn't need the extra money in this economy?  Now if buyers are willing to pay $250-300 a ton like what he's getting for export then i'm sure he'd take that, however, individual hay buyers would still complain for the high prices that Japan will happily pay for in large quanitities. If every farmer got low $$ for his hay and sold to indivual buyers every year just to "take care of our own first" then he'd go broke and there would be no hay and people would start selling their livestock because there was no hay to buy or the prices were sky high. 

So hopefully you can see my point in all of that. It's ok to vent about it and I know it's hard during these times to find hay at a low price, but I am coming from both sides. I also don't know the full story with your hay dealer, but from what I have read I think he's doing what he needs to do to pay to grow the hay and make a living.


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

My hay guy is selling lots of his hay to Texas for really high prices (for here). I want my hay supply to be protected and I have told him I will pay more. He said some of his local customers are mad at him. I can't believe how hard it is to do what he does.

Jan


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Hay and all feed seam to be up everywhere. We usually get corn from a local farm for the deer. Well they are getting such a good price elsewhere by the truckload that bagging up and selling those 50# bags makes no sense to them or to me even though that means I have to buy mine from TSC or a chain store. I always prefer to support local farmers but I do want them to get the most for all their hard work so they can continue to farm.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes I do understand your point and I agree.

I guess I will only use this particular person as my example as I know it is not the same all across the board. 

Ok, this hay farmer gets aprox 400 ton a hay from his fields every year. He has donated some to a horse rescue..she buys and pays to feed her own horses. She doles out the donated hay to those who need it. This has been going on for at least three years. She writes him a receipt for the hay at the price he chooses which in turn he takes it off his taxes. So, everyone wins in one way or another. Good deall all the way around. 

This year, because he can get high dollar for his hay from Japan, he is not donating any to the rescue. My point is that hay farmers have done this before..sell to Japan. They have to pay to get the hay trucked to the coast. I assume this is covered by the price for the hay they are getting from Japan. Now, either last year or the year before many hay farmers did this and because there was some weed in someones hay, Japan declined to take any of it. Alot of this hay stayed on the docks and molded. Some I am sure went to the local dairies. But, the farmer was not going to pay to have it trucked back because he would not recoop his loss. But, he lost as the hay was never paid for from any source. THAT is what irks me more than anything I guess. He could seel his hay here and have a gaureenteed price, no matter what he sells it for. The same may well happen this time, I do not know. My issue is, why would you as a hay farmer not sell to the locals and if you had left over, then sell outside our country? Why is it important to take care of horses overseas and not horses here? Even the ranchers here are upset as they have to feed their cows and this jacks up the price they have to pay for hay...which in turn jacks up the price we all pay at the market for beef. 

As I think about this, I have to say that I am irked that we do not take care of our own first. Even if the hay goes out of state, to me it is better than going overseas.With hay farmers on down the line having to raise their prices to survive, those with livestock pay also. I am willing to pay a higher price for hay IF it is to cover costs the farmer has...but, not because he can sell it to another country.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Hay prices are CRAZY here and it's too went and nasty to even store hay. SO we are pretty screwed here and know we are going to have to resort to pelleted hay extender and alfalfa pellets. This winter is going to majorly suck. Hay is about $11-13 dollars a bale here. So most bucks are going to be sold after breeding and any does that have trouble taking are OUT. Can't have hay burners around here.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Ashley that's got to be hard not being able to store hay over winter...I don't know what i'd do if I couldn't store my own hay.  :hug:

Itchysmom: Oh I see...so the gal you talked to resells it for under value once she gets it? Do you rescue goats yourself? I reread your first post and am a tad confused...so she gets donated hay...and then sells it for cheaper to other people who need it? I didn't even know rescues could do that unless it was for other rescues or those fostering animals or something? :scratch: Hmm...interesting...


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

No, no, she does not resale it, she gives it to those who are in need. Sorry that was confusing!

Also sorry for spouting off here. I just got really discouraged when I heard the news as she was going to give me a little just to get me through a few weeks for my horses. I am in the process of finding homes for two and this hay would have helped me out. Also, the lady who had several tons of inexpensive grass hay just sold it all, so that option is out also. I just never thought that living in a place like this, where grass and hay grow all over the place, I cannot find decent hay at a decent price. Anyway, now those options are gone and I have to put my thinking cap on again!

Please do not misunderstand that I think farmers should not do what they can to make a decent profit. They do work hard. It's just that it stung a bit when I heard that hay was not going to be available here, but instead is going overseas. He is a local farmer and I would think he knows how things are here. But, I guess money speaks a bit louder. I actually (now that I have calmed down!) hope that he does not get burned on this as it has happened before. Any weeds found in that hay and he is stuck!


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm in Texas & I wish more people would ship hay in! The the drought here has hay really expensive. I went to buy Alfalfa the other day and paid $18.50 for a tiny square bale. It was so light! I decided I'm going to TS for the rest of the winter to buy there bagged Alfalfa for $12.99! 

I wish my goats would eat the Coastal/Bermuda it's only $12 a bale. They wont eat it. Just goes to waste.

I was lucky enough to stock pile several nice bales of Sudan for $7 a bale. That was mid summer and it was a little feed store in the middle of no where. Should have bought more though because I don't have enough to make it all winter.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

May I ask what bagged alfalfa is? Are you talking about hay cubes or pellets?

I would not have a problem if he was shipping to Texas where you guys had a drought. That is taking care of our own.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I understand how you feel watching someone send hay overseas. Makes me a little irritated knowing there is good hay out there and they are send it out of the country! I'm sure there are plenty of people down here in the south willing to pay good prices.

Our TS has a whole isle of bagged hay. Last time I was there they had extra pallets on the side isles too.

There is one brand of alfalfa that is like a small bale of hay that has been bagged in plastic. You can take it out in small flakes. Goats likes it but a lot of stalks went to waste. LOL just like a real bale. 
Then there is Purina brand that is finally shredded alfalfa. Some of it is so fine the wind blows it away but the goats really like it. As long as I feed it in a deep bowl very little goes to waste.
Just tried out another bag that is Timothy, Alfalfa & Oat hay. Was not sure if it was okay for goats since it's labeled for horse. The hay is coated with molasses. I used it in small amounts mixing it with grain. Made the grain go a lot farther plus the goats really like it. Hardly any went to waste.

There are several others I have not tried yet. There is a shredded Timothy/Alfalfa mix that I'm going to try that next.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I add the Standee brand pelleted alfalfa to my grain. My goats seam to like it. None gets wasted.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I use locally milled 16% alfalfa pellets. They are really nice and the goats love them. I do kind of boycott the Standee brand as much as possible since they are the largest company that sends hay to Japan. What we get is probably what's not good enough to send overseas.
Japan uses the hay to raise Kobe' beef, which I can't afford, so I don't have to boycott it.

China has also bought a large amount of our corn fields this year. I'm sure we'll feel that price jacking soon.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

onder: I will look around and see if any local alfalfa pellets are available. I was getting the Standee cause thats what my TSC carries. The TSC did have one other brand before but I found it to have lots of powder in it and therefore dusty.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

How do you go about finding locally milled pellets? 

I've been to all the feed stores within a reasonably driving distance and sadly TS has the best variety. It sees the feed stores are limited and set in what they carry. 

TS here carries the bagged hay by Standee, Purina, TNT & Lucerne. I think TNT has a pellet too but I've never tried any pellets for my girls. I've spent so much time staring at the bagged hays, pellets and cubes. I'm always wondering where they come from and which one(s) are the best. I would much rather buy a fresh bale locally.


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

If you think hay prices are bad and there is a shortage of animal feed, just wait until you see the human food prices shoot up and the scarcity of human food due to them shipping it all to China, Japan and Russia. So many countries around the world have had some kind natural disaster in the last year that have put a big damper on their food production, then look at the flooding in the midwest this spring, the drought in the south. One would be wise to fill their pantry while they still could. 

We had a hard time finding hay in our area. Most of it was being bought up by hay dealers shipping it to Texas. I thought we better get as much as we can, so we got about 2 years worth. From what I understand, a lot of farmers switched from hay to corn crop this year, which made it even worse.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I hear ya rev...food prices are skyrocketing! AND, they are trying to pass a law that says you cannot have a home garden! They would be able to even take your land away from you if you were caught! And they still have a ton of corn sitting in silos wasting!

I am afraid that if this keeps up we will be so far up the creek, we will have no way to return!


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## TNP (Sep 26, 2009)

The farmers here had a really good hay crop this year. They got more cuttings than they usually get. But when I go to get hay, there's not much to be found locally. I thought I'd have no problem getting hay this winter. There are no hay ads in the paper from local farmers like there usually are. The place I buy my hay only has half of what they usually have, and they said that has to last all winter. I wonder where all of our local hay went this year. :shrug: 

Wish I could stock up while it's still available, but I don't have anywhere to store a lot of hay without it getting ruined. I can store a maximum of 2 small square bales at a time.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Countries like Japan and China cannot grow hay to feed their livestock, so they buy from us and other countries that can grow a large amount. I do not deny them feed for their livestock, but with all the problems we have had here over this past year, I feel we should take care of ours first. That is my opinion.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Itchysmom said:


> I hear ya rev...food prices are skyrocketing! AND, they are trying to pass a law that says you cannot have a home garden! They would be able to even take your land away from you if you were caught! And they still have a ton of corn sitting in silos wasting!
> 
> I am afraid that if this keeps up we will be so far up the creek, we will have no way to return!


 :shocked: They are not going to let you have a garden on your own land for your own use? That is absolutely crazy!!!! Is it town rule or county?


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Because the hay was cut so late this year (due to crappy weather) it was very stalky, so the 32 bales i bought at the beginning of August did not last until December as planned. I went back to my guy this week and he is out. He did not get a second cutting, and his first cutting was smaller than usual. I went to my backup guy and he was out also. A friend gave me the number of her guy and he was out. I had a lead on a place that was 20 miles away, that didn't deliver, which would be difficult to transport in my van (would probably take at least 5 trips) and when i called this morning they said they had to check their supply b/c i might all be taken. I was getting very frustrated. Someone told me about a guy that used to do hay, and when i called him he said I was welcome to come over and look at what he had, that he usually sold to the big outfits that came in with tractor-trailers and took them to NJ and points further south, but he'd see if he could help me out. 

His second cutting looked fabulous but was already spoken for. First cutting looked ok, but he said he was gettin $200 a ton, so $0.10/lb, for 75 lb bales. Thought that was kind of pricey (yes, i know people are paying more, but around here the hay is going for $3.50/50 lb bale.) He asked what i was feeding and i said goats, and he said he had some 'goat hay' I said they were really picky and couldn't eat anything moldy - for some reason people think goats can eat any old crappy hay that is out there. He said he had some hay that was second cutting but the color was off, it wasn't moldy or anything. It smelled grassy, and looked pretty good, and he said it would be $4 a bale, so I bought one to try it out and they loved it. It was very leafy, and the color looked good when you had the bale by itself, when it was right next to his beautiful green second cutting bales it looked terrible. He is going to charge me $50 for delivery, so it will be more like $5 a bale, but the price per pound is right where my original hay was. I was terrified that I wouldn't find enough, and frankly if i had more barn space to store it I'd get more, but I will have enough trouble squeezing in the 55 bales I told him i needed. 

Anyway while i was talking to him i asked why he wasn't selling locally, and he said it was a pain selling to individuals - loading small amounts in pickup trucks and not getting the price he wants - or having people tell him to save a certain amount and then never showing up. The way he works now, he doesn't have to handle individual bales, he has a forklift and just loads them up quickly and off they go. I can see his point, and at least it is staying in this country. I hope the farmers that lost money last time b/c of weeds decide not to sell again to Japan/China.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

We have had a horrible time this year with hay. At first it was looking good and we made out first cutting no problem. But then 2nd cutting took for ever to grow because of the lack of rain. We were able to make 3rd cutting on some of or fields but with all the rain we had in august we could have finished up our 3rd cutting and make a 4th cutting on some of our fields but my dad decided not to. I really wish we did because I feel like we will run out again this year. He has a problem knowing when to stop selling before we run out. We kept our prices the same this year even though I know we could have asked for more but my dad likes to keep customers happy. We are charging $4.00 for a 75 pound bale of hay and $2.50 for a bale of straw.
I am with Rev144 that food prices are going to go threw the roof. We just sold 9 head of fat cattle last weekend and we averaged $1.17 a pound last year we averaged $0.93 a pound. You may think we made a huge profit but with the price of corn we will probably break even. We have 39 head to feed this year and will probably spend $24,000 just in corn, plus the price of the cattle, supplement, and hay. I just hope we don't end up loosing money. Our worst year we were $9,000 in the hole and this is just a little hobby for my dad so that put a dent in things. We normally only feed out 20-25 but my dad got a little happy buying cattle. He just kept coming home with more. We also normally wait till April to buy calves and he has already bought 9.
I just pray that everyone comes out of this horrible economy alive and happy. Good luck to everyone just remember it will get better and things could be worse. Stay positive!!!


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Logan: Yes. There is a law sitting in congress I believe about this. I will have to ask hubby about it tomorrow. This law would state that individual home owners will not be able to grow their own gardens. Even if it is produce for their own personal use. Sucks doesn't it? I figure that the big guys, like Monsanto, think that if this craze of growing ones own food really takes hold, they are going to start losing money...and we all know they don't want that!

It seems from all your posts that we are having problems all across the country with hay this year. Where I live most of the hay goes for cattle. The ranchers even buy from far away and the prices are outrageous!


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Itchysmom said:


> Logan: Yes. There is a law sitting in congress I believe about this. I will have to ask hubby about it tomorrow. This law would state that individual home owners will not be able to grow their own gardens. Even if it is produce for their own personal use. Sucks doesn't it? I figure that the big guys, like *Monsatan*, think that if this craze of growing ones own food really takes hold, they are going to start losing money...and we all know they don't want that!


_There...... I fixed it for you! _


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Itchysmom said:


> Logan: Yes. There is a law sitting in congress I believe about this. I will have to ask hubby about it tomorrow. This law would state that individual home owners will not be able to grow their own gardens. Even if it is produce for their own personal use. Sucks doesn't it? I figure that the big guys, like Monsanto, think that if this craze of growing ones own food really takes hold, they are going to start losing money...and we all know they don't want that!


Even if Congress passed it (and i don't think even Congress is THAT dumb the Supreme Court would have to strike it down. That is completely ridiculous. Can you imagine, people growing bootleg tomatoes in their house with grow lights?

eta: I found this out:

Senate Bill S510 Makes it illegal to Grow, Share, Trade or Sell Homegrown food.

And an explanation http://laughterandliberty.com/senate-bill-s510-explained-sort-of/


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## WhisperingWillowNDG (Jul 20, 2011)

any of you guys heard of Chaffhaye?? It's alfalfa (they also have grass chaffhaye - but I use the alfalfa) fermented in molasses, awesome stuff that smells wonderful coming out of the bag, and my goats LOVE IT. A 50 pound bag lasts my 11 Nigerians a whole week (supplemented with regular hay at night)... and the bag here in TN are only $12.60 each... also, a bag is "good" unopened for a year or so! Once you open the bag, it's best to use it within a week, but most of us here won't have any trouble using up 50#s in a week... here's the website, maybe you can supplement with it instead of paying (HOLY TOLEDO!) $18 a bale for hay!!

http://www.chaffhaye.com/

some of the info on their website:

Chaffhaye Alfalfa is premium alfalfa harvested at optimal plant maturity to maximize nutrients and palatability. While still fresh, the crop is chopped, lightly misted with molasses, then individually packed into air-tight packages to lock in freshness. A natural fermentation transforms the raw alfalfa into a super digestible forage, enriching it with yeast, enzymes and beneficial microflora that aid digestion as well as absorption of its nutrients by the animal. Chaffhaye Alfalfa is soft, easy to chew, and free of dust and mold.

Purpose of Feed:
A sole source of the forage portion of the diet
100% replacement for dry hay, pellets and cubes.
Benefited Animals:
All classes of Horse, Deer, Sheep, Goat, Cattle, Camelid and Exotics.
Ideal for animals that are weaning, growing, gestating, lactating, senior/geriatric, or exposed to stress from performance, travel, shows, wormers and vaccinations.
Dust-free and mold-free, reduces respiratory and digestive ailments.

Tested for Nutrition:
Chaffhaye Alfalfa is tested by independent laboratories and is rated as "Supreme Quality Alfalfa", the highest quality rating for forage established by the USDA.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Well I for one would be growing all the bootleg veggies in my basement!! I can't imagine it will ever pass. 

Our hay supplier just is bailing the rest of his 2nd cutting today; very late but luckily he got it. 

A company called me from central NY yesterday. They are selling top quality hay in 25# bagged bales. They have some new process that they have lost no nutrients or color from the day it was cut. It costs more per small bale but they claim the waste is none. I may just end up trying a bale and see.


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## mjhetz (Sep 20, 2010)

I guess I am luckier than I thought. Someone I got hay from before posted on Craigslist that he had just baled up his 2nd cutting, but when I called him it was gone already. He still had 1st cutting, 3.75 a bale delivered. I went ahead and got 30 bales, should last all winter. My car won't fit in the garage for a little while, though<G>

Mary Jane
Ithaca, NY


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

You are all making me realize how spoiled I am. For the past 3 years, I have been paying $2/bale for 40#? square bales! The reason they are so inexpensive, is that the guy caters to "horse people", so if it isn't good enough for horses, it's considered mulch hay. It gets baled & treated like the horse hay, just stored in a different section of the barn. Never wet/moldy, beautiful still green bales that have weeds mixed in...which the goats love!



freedomstarfarm said:


> Well I for one would be growing all the bootleg veggies in my basement!! I can't imagine it will ever pass.


I can't imagine it would ever pass either, but stranger things have happened... someday we may find ourselves here using code words to talk about what bootleg veggies we are growing...


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

It looks like the bill passed in the Senate. It does not say you cannot grow your own garden for your own consumption. They want to regulate farmers markets...control! I look at it this way, if you go to a farmers market, it is your choice whether you want to trust that that tomatoe you just bought is safe. I mean, you do know that it was grown in someones backyard garden, right? What gives our government to right to take away our freedom of choice. I could go on, but this is a goat forum not a political one! 

As far as hay goes, here is a thot. Hubby said to me this morning that we, as Americans have too many animals. Alot of them are just pets that serve no real purpose other than friendship. Your goat provides milk and meat...but, your horse does not pull a plow any more, it is an animal strickly for pleasure as we do not eat horses here. Same with your dog and cat. We do not grow enough feed for them. There are so many paths this statement could take. What are your thots on this?


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

Itchysmom, I have agree with your hubby. My hubby says we can only get a horse if we can eat it! :shocked: I really don't think that he would, but the point is that they usually don't serve an actual purpose. 
It's like our 3 dogs. Only one really serves a purpose, in keeping wildlife away, the other 2 are nothing but food hounds that cost way too much to feed. We do try to supplement their food w/stuff we grow (the parts of our meat animals that we don't eat), but that only goes so far. If we ever get another dog, it will be a working LGD that will have a job to do. We don't have a cat for the same reason...it would just be another mouth to feed. I just realized that the dogs are somewhat useful. They kill all the mice. That's why we don't need a cat. :wink:



Itchysmom said:


> They want to regulate farmers markets...control!


Agree absolutely! But as you said, it's not a political forum, so I'll leave it at that. :thumb:


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Itchysmom said:


> It looks like the bill passed in the Senate. It does not say you cannot grow your own garden for your own consumption. They want to regulate farmers markets...control! I look at it this way, if you go to a farmers market, it is your choice whether you want to trust that that tomatoe you just bought is safe. I mean, you do know that it was grown in someones backyard garden, right? What gives our government to right to take away our freedom of choice. I could go on, but this is a goat forum not a political one!


It also says you cannot give your garden produce away - to people outside your family. Does that mean I can't give stuff to my parents and sisters b/c they don't live in the same house? What about my friends and neighbors? They have no right to regulate this, I think they are realizing that more and more people are using the barter system lately and they are 'missing out' on potential taxes. Can we help it if we are smarter than they are? I am liking barter more and more, i pay for haircuts and music lessons with eggs, and have traded veggies that i have a surplus of for ones that I didn't have luck with.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

potentialfarm: We Americans do not eat horses, dogs and cats. They are luxery items per say. But, I have had my mare for 18 years, she was born on my property. I will go without to feed her if I have to. And yes, my dogs are my pets, but they also protect. I have too many. But, how do you turn away a puppy that is abandoned? 

That is exactly true Pzn! By bartering or sellin off extra produce, they (the big guys) lose out and that is why they do not want us to do things like farmers markets!

You would be able to give your produce to family ONLY! If caught even giving it away to neigbors you are setting yourself up for them to come in and regulate. So, be very very careful! (that said like Elmer Fud BTW!)

I still do not know the base reason why hay is sooo expensive this year. I do know gas has gone up, alot of weather related problems have happened...but I still have this feeling that there is something I am missing here!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Mumble mumble food saftey act mumble mumble s510 mumble mumble nanny state mumble mumble false inflation mumble mumble control mumble mumble mumble our rights...

Another thing that has gone up for the farmers is fertilizer. I wonder how many "failed" their crops for the tax write off simply because they couldn't get their normal yearly loans to plant. I'm seeing a lot of crop changes here. Purple clover instead of red. The corn failed pretty much. A lot of unplanted feilds this year. I don't know.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I do know that the ranchers here are having a hard time getting their yearly loans. The banks are holding back on these guys who take out a loan each year to buy what they need to grow crops and feed their cattle. The loans always got re-paid when they sold their cattle. As i hear it they aren't able to do this any more. Cattle prices went down also. One rancher, a neighbor of mine used to run quite a few head..he is down to maybe 50 cow calf pairs.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Ack, what do i do now?

I wrote earlier that i found a hay source. It is alfalfa mostly, smells good to me, no mold in the bale I got Monday and they gobbled it up - at first. Today they did not touch it. I just went out for evening feeding and it is still mostly there. I had brought fresh into their pen before i realized their bins were still full and they didn't even touch the fresh stuff. The guy was supposed to deliver my winter supply tomorrow - i just called and told him i'd have to hold off a couple days to see if hunger changes their mind b/c i can't afford a barn full of something they won't eat. What could be the problem? Could it be too rich for them? (which is what he thought, if they were getting stalky stuff and i switched to mostly alfalfa.) I don't even know if I will have another source. How can i tell if they are being fussy or there is truly something wrong with it?


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Did anyone get scours or big bloated bellies? They may just be once and full. :shrug:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

They might just be a little acidy and too smart to eat themselves to bloat. If you don't do free choice baking soda you could put a little out to help them settle their stomachs. If you have it out all the time unfortunately it won't really do anything for them at this point. Their systems are too used to it.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

I do keep out baking soda all the time. I just worry when they don't eat. Plus the last time they didn't eat hay i found out it was moldy in the middle. That is not the case this time b/c the first thing i did was break open the bale and check. I don't detect anything wrong, but i am leery that there is something i'm not detecting (i know, i am such a worrywort, but anytime they seem the slightest bit 'off' I jump on it right away) plus i don't feel like spending almost $300 on hay for the winter if there is a problem.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Itchysmom- cattle prices here are really high. Last year we were happy to get .93 cents a pound live weight and 2 weeks ago we sold 9 that averaged $1.17 a pound live weight. Our problem is we will spend about $24,000 in just corn to feed them not to mention how much they cost, supplement, and hay. We will be happy to break even.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Pzn: is this alfalfa really rich? If it is they may have to take some time getting used to it. Possibly gobbled it up to fast and are still digesting it. If their poops and pees are normal, I would just not put any more in there for a day and see if they start eating it again. Are they chewing their cud? Nothing wrong with being a worry wart! I am and usually all works out just fine!

RPC: yeah, beef prices went up here too, but like you said, these guys are lucky to breakk even at the end of it all.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

strange thing, i was just watching the news and 23 people died from listeria from eating cantaloupe,i bet none of them were from anyones backyard garden.not sure where it was though.

RPC,24,000 in corn? Why feed so much corn? no pasture or are they dairy cows?

Our cattle prices are high too,finally.

Hay has gone up here some but only for the really good alfalfa,and thats because of horses.

There is too many useless animals in this country,horses are the main ones.They use the best hay for horses and they just keep eating and produce nothing,if they are ridden i can see them being useful,pulling teams are useful as well.If you put all the horses in this country to work you might see gas prices drop,but then there would be a tax on horse manure.


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## Farmgirl675 (Oct 21, 2010)

Well I guess I'll have to put the garden out back by the still!!


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Steve said:


> There is too many useless animals in this country,horses are the main ones.They use the best hay for horses and they just keep eating and produce nothing,if they are ridden i can see them being useful,pulling teams are useful as well.If you put all the horses in this country to work you might see gas prices drop,but then there would be a tax on horse manure.


I am not going to criticize anyone's choices for a pet (well maybe if someone has 100 cats stuffed in their little ranch house) and if i had the room I'd probably have gotten a horse instead of goats. They are wonderful pets, and there is the nostalgia factor of days gone by, and if no one had pet horses they'd likely disappear b/c you are right for the most part people don't need them. If I could live anywhere i wanted i'd choose to live somewhere where people rode horses to get around. I hate cars but lately i spend all my time in them. I had horses when i was a kid (from 12 until 20) and it was really great to just saddle up and wander the woods. I can't thank my parents enough for giving us that kind of childhood.

That said, now that i am older i think goats suit my lifestyle a bit more, you can have more of them for the same price as a horse, they are easier to manhandle, you can do most things for yourself (hoof trimming) and their personalities are fabulous. I guess the closest i will get to horses again in my lifetime is my Breyer models.


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2011)

Thats what i meant,horses are too expensive to be a pet,and so many are in need of rescue because people do not understand their needs.they are not the only pets that need good care they just need so much of it.

If everyone that owned a horse rode them i would have no problem with everyone owning one.Im just saying horses are a big reason hay is so high in this country,good quality hay i meant and much is wasted on an animal that returns little these days.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Steve said:


> Thats what i meant,horses are too expensive to be a pet,and so many are in need of rescue because people do not understand their needs.they are not the only pets that need good care they just need so much of it.
> If everyone that owned a horse rode them i would have no problem with everyone owning one.Im just saying horses are a big reason hay is so high in this country,good quality hay i meant and much is wasted on an animal that returns little these days.


This is what happens when you put a popular livestock animal in a special class that can not be slaughtered. Something that I pray never happens to goats.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

Steve you are absolutely correct. I have horses, I enjoy them, but I have not ridden in two years! They are now coming home (they have been in pasture for two years up the road) We could get into the slaughter of horses, but let's not as it is so contriversial! I do know that if I had to, I could hitch up two horses, go to town 26 miles away and not depend on gas! We may get to that some day. They say history repeats itself!

Horses do not need alfalfa hay. Mine were raised on it as that is what we had. But, they have been on grass hay for 5 years and are better for it. For a top performance horse, grass hay would not be enough for sure! We have put horses in a, what shall I call it, a luxury situation. The Amish use their horses. Some countries eat horses. We do not. We play with them! I am not saying that people should not have livestock, like horses. But, we all agree that a goat can and does produce something usable, whereas a horse does not. Wait...all that manure for our secret gardens! LOL!

I have found myself in a situation where I have to get rid of at least two horses. This saddens me. But, I can only afford to feed two this winter. Luckily one found a home and another one can go live with the LLamas for the winter and be fed. Once back home, the two I can keep will at least serve the purpose of a hug and a ride once in awhile!


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

It looks like I will be butchering both my kids this winter. I just got a call from a lady thet was supposed to hold a ton of grass hay for me and she said that her daughters BF sold it! Argggg. So, rather than have two hay bunners, both will go instead of one. I wouldn't be able to breed her til next fall anyway and have two adults to breed this winter. I have to look at it as these guys will put meat in the feezer and I can always retain another doeling at a later date. Wish it was this easy with horses.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

You actually legally can have your own horse(s) slaughtered for personal use I do believe because it's still considered livestock. However, the sale of horse meat is illegal. It's a bigger animal so obviously not as easy as having goats butchered, but still legal.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Well apparently my goats are smarter than I am.

I was getting worried b/c they have barely touched the new hay since i first got it on Monday (they gobbled it up and first and I called the guy and ordered 50 more bales) to be delivered yesterday. Wednesday night i called and postponed the delivery, i told him they weren't eating it for some reason and I'd like to hold off a bit. He said maybe it was too rich for them right now, and i said that could be the case, but I didn't want to end up with a barn full of hay they wouldn't eat, so he agreed to wait.

This morning i saw them eating the bedding (the other stalky parts of the first cutting I had) they were also out IN THE RAIN eating grass. I decided they were desperately trying to avoid eating this new hay. I brought it to my regular guy b/c i just didn't see what was wrong with it. He said it was very faintly musty, didn't smell as grassy as he would like, clumpy b/c it was probably baled while slightly damp, and the off color was probably b/c it was at least last season's hay. Nice. So glad i can trust people to sell me good hay. I had told this one guy that goats cannot just eat any old hay, they are particular, and he assured me they'd love this off-color alfalfa. 

This is the second time the goats have refused hay, both times with cause. I will never doubt them again. So the great hay search is still on. My regular guy is checking around for me also, so maybe he can turn up someone with good hay. He at least understands i need good quality hay.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm sorry that hay did not work out for you. Animals seem to know what is right and what is off...we need to listen to them more closely!  Bad on the guy who said it was just off color...bet he knew it was off period. 

Kylee: I did not know that. Of course I bet if anyone did that some one would freak and call the authorities. But, believe me, if I was starving.......

teve: I keep forgetting you! I hear about products being recalled and taken off shelves all the time. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Products that are suppose to be safe for human consumption and all.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Hubby and I just got back from picking up a GIANT round bale of hay for our goats. Found a rancher nearby who has been trucking in these enormous (1525 lbs each) bales of Bright Orchard/Timothy/Fescue mix hay. They are bright green and tested at about 10% protein. Much better than the small square bales of coastal I have been getting. Have been paying $11 for a 40-45lb bale of poor quality, brown coastal. This stuff is better quality by far and the weight is the equivalent of 38 of the square bales I have been getting so it will last us about a month and a half at their current rate of consumption. 

They have been eating about 40-45lbs of grass hay each day as I have them penned up away from the pasture. The drought killed off most of the pasture grass & plants so I planted about 200lbs of oats and annual ryegrass and have been keeping the goats penned while we give it a chance to sprout and get established. Hoping that we'll get a little rain to help it along and then the goats will be let back out to browse so that they won't need nearly as much hay. To be honest, though, this time has been good for the herd as I had been feeding way too much before the feed prices went up and my whole herd was a bunch of fatties. Too many judges this Spring told me my goats were 'overconditioned.' Now they are starting to look normal as I have cut out alfalfa and grain for all but the ones that are pregnant or underweight.

I'm already talking to this hay guy about buying more of these round bales, thinking maybe 4-6 of these would get us all the way through the winter and well into next Spring. And we paid $210 for each so that comes out to about $5.53 per square bale. Not bad considering how high the hay prices have gotten due to the drought.

It was a bit of an adventure getting it home and unloaded from the trailer without a tractor...putting it on was easy since the rancher had a giant tractor. We have always bought small square bales in the past and this is the first time we've tried dealing with one of these massive round bales. We thought about just leaving it on our flatbed trailer and feeding it from there. But, we were able to back the trailer up to the pallets where I normally store square bales and the two of us were able to roll it off onto the pallets.

Which sounds easy, but 1500+lbs is a LOT of hay! Took us a while, lots of sweating and rocking the thing back and forth before we got it moving and it plopped off of the trailer.

Gonna cut it open and just use a pitchfork to take out what I need each day to fill their hay feeders. If we drop the whole thing in the pasture they will climb right into it, scatter the hay, and pee and poo all over it so half of it would be wasted. Bad goats!
50 minutes ago.


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

That does sound like a good deal. I fed rounds to my horses the last two winters and hate them. Nice not to have to go out there morning and nite to feed, but around here the rounds always have mold in them somewhere!


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## GoldenSeal (Sep 14, 2010)

That's insanely expensive! I paid 45 per 1500lb round bale plus a 7 dollar delivery charge. The most I've ever paid for hay was two years ago and I paid 75 per 1500lb bale.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh yeah, big round bales are MUCH cheaper up north. But, trust me, this was a good deal for where we are! Unfortunately, all of Texas and much of Oklahoma is in the middle of a nasty drought. Hardly any hay at all was able to be grown locally this year and that is pretty much gone. People are now trucking it in from up North, which was fairly cheap at first but the northern hay growers and shipping companies caught on that there was money to be made and both have raised their prices to the point that the shipped hay is now ridiculous.

An average 700lb round bale of hay sells for $100 for 'cow quality' hay (aka, horrible garbage hay) and 'horse quality' bales run upwards of $160 for that size though you can occasionally buy decent stuff for around $130. The only way to get it cheaper is to buy an entire truckload (38-42 round bales) for about $95 each if you buy the whole load. I can't use nearly that much and have nowhere to store it.

Decent (and sometimes not-so-decent) square bales of coastal are selling for $11-$14 for a 45 lb bale here. :GAAH: 

The scary part is that shippers are bringing in hay types that the locals are unfamiliar with and that we might not know the risks of. For example, people have been selling round bales of Bahia as 'horse quality' hay. Apparently Bahia has seeds that mold and cause ergot poisoning which causes pregnant mares to abort. There was a post on Craigslist a while back after a woman had 4 of her 5 mares abort after giving them a round bale of Bahia.

It is a rough time to be a livestock owner in Texas, for sure and no end in sight. Until this drought breaks we are at the mercy of the hay brokers (the middle men, not the actual growers) who are more than happy to make money hand over fist at the expense of Texas & Oklahoma farmers. Many have gone out of business already or have severely reduced their herds, this time next year the cost of beef is gonna be sky high because many sold off most of their breeding stock when they were unable to afford to feed and water them due the the drought.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh, and to make matters worse, the drought has left our pasture DEAD. We have some cedar trees and mesquite out there but not much else has survived. I have planted winter oats and ryegrass and have been watering it as much as I can to try to get something to grow, but it is still just stubble. So the herd is eating almost entirely from what I can buy and bring in. I used to leave coastal hay out free choice, but it got too expensive so I had to cut back. Even without leaving it out free choice they eat about a bale a day of the 40-45lb square bales. At $11 a bale that is $330 a month for hay alone! 

On top of the hay prices, all of the grains have gone up too. I used to pay $10 per bag for a top of the line dairy goat ration. It has gone up to $13.50 a bag. BOSS is now $24 a bag, alfalfa pellets were $7.99 a bag, now they are $11.99! This is getting ridiculous!

It has really forced me to take a hard look at my feeding program. Before, my goats were overfed and, honestly, over-conditioned. Now I only feed grain to milkers, pregnant does during their last month of pregnancy, and any that are underweight. Everybody else is getting just hay and browse (and minerals, of course). The ones that are getting grain are getting a far smaller ration than I used to give. So far it is working well, I have a handful that tend to need a little grain to stay in condition but most are porkers who get fat on air so it's nice to see the fatties starting to look more like real dairy goats again...probably a lot healthier for them.

What makes me nervous is that show season means increasing grain rations and feeding alfalfa to my milkers so it's gonna get expensive QUICK.


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