# Teaching our Pygmy goat to drive



## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Hey guys! First of all, I hope I put this in the right forum, he isn't going to be a pack goat, but I could find out were else to put it.









Anyway, we have a friend who is staring a pony party business, and I have decided to try to teach our Pygmy goat to drive. He's stubborn, and not even halter trained. I know nothing about training goats other then I've read that Pygmy goats can do it, and I'm committed haha!
First things first, halter training. I need tips for this, I watched a few youtube videos, and am doing additional research, but wondering what you guys think. All the tips I can get! I am going to use a homemade halter for now, but am going to order a real one as well, because we'll need that anyway. 
Next, driving. We aren't planning to put a lot of weight in his cart. For older kids, we wont even hook the cart up, just decorate him and lead him around, that will be perfect. For little kids, they can ride around, but even though I have done no research on how much weight they can pull, I'm guessing no more then 70 pounds. 
Like I said, all the tips I can get haha! We have horses, and some horse training experience, (my horse was greenish when we got her, and with some behavior corrections and minor training, she's a great mare now) so you can see some of my experience. 
Thanks in advance! I appreciate it!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Even 70lbs sounds like too much weight. He'd be pulling the cart by himself?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Goats can pull about 1 1/2 times their own weight, so I don't think 70 lbs. would be too much. Pygmies are stout little critters! I wrote several articles on training goats to drive and you can view them on my blog: 


Articles | Goat-O-Rama



The top three links are the ones you want. I think for a goat as small as yours, a horse halter could be modified into a decent harness for pulling a 4-wheeled vehicle. If you use a two-wheeled cart you'll need to use a wider strap for the saddle and pad it well since the goat will be carrying some of the weight on his back to balance the cart.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Goats can pull about 1 1/2 times their own weight, so I don't think 70 lbs. would be too much. Pygmies are stout little critters! I wrote several articles on training goats to drive and you can view them on my blog:
> 
> 
> Articles | Goat-O-Rama
> ...


Thank you! Like I said, I had done no research on how much he could pull, so 70lbs was a total guess. I guess I underestimate their strength lol! Your probably right though, thinking about it again, that does sound to heavy. 
Yes, he will be pulling the cart himself, the only other goat we have is a Fainting goat, and obviously that wont work out for pony party's hahah!

Awesome, thank you! We have plenty of horse halters, and an old dog harness we can use. I think we will staring by modifying our wagon, by putting a bamboo poll on either side and attaching that to him for his first bit of training. After that, we will probably build him something, wether its a 2 wheel vehicle, or 4 wheel. 
Thanks so much for you help! He will likely only pull little kids around, or maybe even snacks for older kids in his cart. I will look through the articles. Thanks!


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## mmahamilton (Jun 25, 2020)

Weeg said:


> Thank you! Like I said, I had done no research on how much he could pull, so 70lbs was a total guess. I guess I underestimate their strength lol! Your probably right though, thinking about it again, that does sound to heavy.
> Yes, he will be pulling the cart himself, the only other goat we have is a Fainting goat, and obviously that wont work out for pony party's hahah!
> 
> Awesome, thank you! We have plenty of horse halters, and an old dog harness we can use. I think we will staring by modifying our wagon, by putting a bamboo poll on either side and attaching that to him for his first bit of training. After that, we will probably build him something, wether its a 2 wheel vehicle, or 4 wheel.
> Thanks so much for you help! He will likely only pull little kids around, or maybe even snacks for older kids in his cart. I will look through the articles. Thanks!




You can buy driving harnesses and halters for pigmy/dwarf goats from carter pet supply on Etsy. So far I have been happy with the quality of the halters and pulling harness I have bought from them. They can also customize things for you like.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

mmahamilton said:


> You can buy driving harnesses and halters for pigmy/dwarf goats from carter pet supply on Etsy. So far I have been happy with the quality of the halters and pulling harness I have bought from them. They can also customize things for you like.


Awesome! I will look into it! Thank you!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

I like the looks of this one, (price wise) but I would have to modify it to were I can attach a pole to it. Just those rope aren't going to pull it well. The cart will be to back and forth, you need something stiff. Any tips on modifications? Theres also this one, but even though its more heavy duty, if he's going to pull a four wheel vehicle he probably wont need it. Plus I still don't see any obvious place to attach a pole on either side, that would attach to the wagon. Which one do you guys suggest? I know the pony party's will pay for it once I get him there, I'll get paid for driving him, but I would rather start with something less expensive, then when we got really good at it, maybe upgrade.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

This is my idea for a part that locks the bamboo poll on to the harness-








A light, metal part that we can weld together. It will be a triangle, and some how we will attach it to the harness. Then, the little circles in the picture stand as a chain, and the rectangle as a pin. The line is an arrow that got covered, and the circle stands for the bamboo post. 
If you insult the pot into the lock, you take the pin, and stick it though a hole in the post, and down into a hole at the base of the mental "lock". Does that make sense? Fairly simple with the right materials, and since he wont be pulling anything heavy it seems like it will work. Tell me what you think!


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## mmahamilton (Jun 25, 2020)

Weeg said:


> I like the looks of this one, (price wise) but I would have to modify it to were I can attach a pole to it. Just those rope aren't going to pull it well. The cart will be to back and forth, you need something stiff. Any tips on modifications? Theres also this one, but even though its more heavy duty, if he's going to pull a four wheel vehicle he probably wont need it. Plus I still don't see any obvious place to attach a pole on either side, that would attach to the wagon. Which one do you guys suggest? I know the pony party's will pay for it once I get him there, I'll get paid for driving him, but I would rather start with something less expensive, then when we got really good at it, maybe upgrade.



I have the first harness and right now it works just fine. The only thing that I'm using it for is to train with though. My Toby boy just turned one so it is going to be at least another year before I can start adding any weight but I have been teaching commands, halter/leash training and introducing him to different things/people/ situations(he is the star of our counties petting zoo!) since he was about 4months old. Once I start introducing the cart I will need to get the harness with the breaching though. 

FYI its a slippery slope once you go down the goat cart rabbit hole!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

mmahamilton said:


> I have the first harness and right now it works just fine. The only thing that I'm using it for is to train with though. My Toby boy just turned one so it is going to be at least another year before I can start adding any weight but I have been teaching commands, halter/leash training and introducing him to different things/people/ situations(he is the star of our counties petting zoo!) since he was about 4months old. Once I start introducing the cart I will need to get the harness with the breaching though.
> 
> FYI its a slippery slope once you go down the goat cart rabbit hole!


Hahaha, I bet its tougher then I imagine! How long do you think training will take? He's a super fast learner, and super willing as long as he has treats. He's gotta be between 3-5? I'm assuming at least a few months, does that sound right? 
I will definitely use the first harness or some kind of dog harness prototype for training, but you think that after I'm done with training, I will need the second one for pulling. That makes sense since its more heavy duty. Do you think there is a way to modify/add on to the first one to make it work for a 4 wheeled vehicle?


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

You should read my article, "Why Whiffletrees?" for info about choosing a harness. I also have a detailed diagram of a full harness with all the parts labeled with a description of each part's function. Your shaft attachment is overly complicated. You only need two loops for the shafts to rest in. The goat doesn't actually pull the cart by the shafts but by the traces. The shafts are for turning and stopping. 😉


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## mmahamilton (Jun 25, 2020)

Weeg said:


> Hahaha, I bet its tougher then I imagine! How long do you think training will take? He's a super fast learner, and super willing as long as he has treats. He's gotta be between 3-5? I'm assuming at least a few months, does that sound right?
> I will definitely use the first harness or some kind of dog harness prototype for training, but you think that after I'm done with training, I will need the second one for pulling. That makes sense since its more heavy duty. Do you think there is a way to modify/add on to the first one to make it work for a 4 wheeled vehicle?



I really couldn't say... this is my first time teaching anything besides dogs. Just don't rush it or it will not be fun for him! You will need the breaching to help your cart to stop so that it doesn't hit your goats legs. As far as modifying the pulling harness, you probably could but you will also need to modify the saddle because there isn't any padding or terrets (rings for the reins). Right now I use one of the traces like a butt strap just so Toby gets use to the feel.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> You should read my article, "Why Whiffletrees?" for info about choosing a harness. I also have a detailed diagram of a full harness with all the parts labeled with a description of each part's function. Your shaft attachment is overly complicated. You only need two loops for the shafts to rest in. The goat doesn't actually pull the cart by the shafts but by the traces. The shafts are for turning and stopping. 😉


Okay, I will definitely read the article, I will do that after I read the rest of the comments. I obviously don't know very much about this lol! I'm glad I'm here!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

mmahamilton said:


> I really couldn't say... this is my first time teaching anything besides dogs. Just don't rush it or it will not be fun for him! You will need the breaching to help your cart to stop so that it doesn't hit your goats legs. As far as modifying the pulling harness, you probably could but you will also need to modify the saddle because there isn't any padding or terrets (rings for the reins). Right now I use one of the traces like a butt strap just so Toby gets use to the feel.


Okay, I'll do a lot more research on the parts of the harness and there function, so that I understand what I will need to modify, and why it is needed. Thanks a bunch you guys!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I've always just modified the tough one miniature horse harness for my boys. Everything needed is there, it just needs resized.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

goathiker said:


> I've always just modified the tough one miniature horse harness for my boys. Everything needed is there, it just needs resized.


Do you think that would fit a Pygmy? I can see it fitting a Nubian. or larger goat like that, but do you think I could make the straps higher to fit him? I'll look into it for sure!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> You should read my article, "Why Whiffletrees?" for info about choosing a harness. I also have a detailed diagram of a full harness with all the parts labeled with a description of each part's function. Your shaft attachment is overly complicated. You only need two loops for the shafts to rest in. The goat doesn't actually pull the cart by the shafts but by the traces. The shafts are for turning and stopping. 😉


Wow, thank you so much, I just read your whole whiffletree article, that is so helpful! So I'm going to do a lot of research on the harness and how it works, once I think I have a basic understanding, I'll start to look for harnesses that will work for him. 
Until then, I am just staring him on halter training, so I have a long road ahead of me. Really for the pony party's, no one is ever going to get to drive him, were only going to be leading him while he carries little kids. I am going to need your help to find a proper fitting harness, and equipment, and then decide what to do about a cart. Thanks so much for your time! I really really appreciate it, and so will Billy!
I've been dealing with poor saddle fit for a while now, and would 100% be having the same problems with Billy, (thats his name haha!) If you guys hadn't helped me out. Thanks again!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

I also read that the average male Pygmy goat weights 40-60 pounds. I believe he's on the heavier side, probably the obese side as well, 😅! So assuming he weights an average of 50 pounds, I've read a full grown goat can pull up to 1 1/2 times their body weight, so he could pull 100lbs including the cart.
So If we can make the cart as light weight as possible, then he could pull most little kids which will be perfect! 

Additional questions-
I'm interested in building my own cart, most carts are likely expensive, and I feel capable that I could build a cart, once I have all the proper knowledge of how they work. 
My biggest question is shafts, and whiffletrees. Assuming I can buy those together, and assuming that the rest of the cart is pretty simple. 4 wheel vehicle, with shafts and whiffletree attached, sounds like the basics. Surly I'm missing something, so any additional info I need to know about carts, please inform me! 
Thanks again!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Weeg said:


> I also read that the average male Pygmy goat weights 40-60 pounds. I believe he's on the heavier side, probably the obese side as well, 😅! So assuming he weights an average of 50 pounds, I've read a full grown goat can pull up to 1 1/2 times their body weight, so he could pull 100lbs including the cart.


Actually, if he's 50 lbs., then 1.5x his weight would be 75 lbs. Weigh him though. I've seen a lot of pygmy goats that were definitely heavier than 50 lbs. (and not just because they were obese!). The females are of course smaller, but the wethers I've seen look like they are closer to the 75 lb. range. They're built like little tanks, so on a hard, level surface (which you'll almost certainly be driving on), I think a pygmy in decent shape could probably easily handle twice his own weight for a couple of hours at a time. Starting, stopping, and navigating hills are the only times when muscle is really required because once the cart starts rolling, momentum does most of the work and all the goat has to do is keep walking. If the load is very heavy you can help the goat out by having someone go behind the cart to help start and stop it.



> So If we can make the cart as light weight as possible, then he could pull most little kids which will be perfect!


Just make sure it's heavy-duty enough for the load you plan to put in it. I've seen some carts that were pretty flimsy and flimsy is dangerous because it makes the cart more likely to tump over or even break if it, say, runs over a curb with a load on board. Making the cart/wagon wider will make it heavier, but it will also make it harder to tump over. 



> Additional questions-
> I'm interested in building my own cart, most carts are likely expensive, and I feel capable that I could build a cart, once I have all the proper knowledge of how they work.
> My biggest question is shafts, and whiffletrees. Assuming I can buy those together, and assuming that the rest of the cart is pretty simple. 4 wheel vehicle, with shafts and whiffletree attached, sounds like the basics. Surly I'm missing something, so any additional info I need to know about carts, please inform me!
> Thanks again!


My first goat wagon was a metal garden cart purchased at Lowe's for around $120. I added a team pole and doubletree to mine, which I built myself. Shafts/poles and single/doubletrees are easy to make at home with a minimum of skill (waves at audience!). I made a set of shafts from a pair of hollow metal broom handles and a whiffletree from a dowel rod with screw eyes bolted to either end so I could attach my traces. People also make shafts out of metal conduit pipe which they bend in a U shape.

You can make a britchen for your harness, or you can attach thimbles to the harness. These are sleeves that hook into the saddle and slip over the ends of the shafts. When the goat stops, he stops the load through the saddle. It works for small loads on level surfaces. You can also easily make a "false britchen" which is a wide, flat piece of nylon fastened between your shafts just behind the goat's bottom. When the goat stops, the false britchen bumps into his hindquarters before the wagon can hit him. You just have to make sure your shafts are high enough in that spot so the strap hits his rump and not his hind legs. Once again, it's a great solution for flat surfaces and light workloads. I wouldn't sit in the cart and drive a goat with either of those systems, but when you're leading him around to give cart rides you can get away with a lot less gear, especially if you have a helper who can grab the wagon and help slow it down whenever you stop.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Actually, if he's 50 lbs., then 1.5x his weight would be 75 lbs. Weigh him though. I've seen a lot of pygmy goats that were definitely heavier than 50 lbs. (and not just because they were obese!). The females are of course smaller, but the wethers I've seen look like they are closer to the 75 lb. range. They're built like little tanks, so on a hard, level surface (which you'll almost certainly be driving on), I think a pygmy in decent shape could probably easily handle twice his own weight for a couple of hours at a time. Starting, stopping, and navigating hills are the only times when muscle is really required because once the cart starts rolling, momentum does most of the work and all the goat has to do is keep walking. If the load is very heavy you can help the goat out by having someone go behind the cart to help start and stop it.


Thanks for correcting my math, I don't know why I wrote 100lbs, haha!
Ya, he is SUPER strong, I am assuming he's heavier then 50lbs, and like you said, I think a lot of it probable isn't from being out of shape. 
I think he is more then capable for pulling kids around, so I'm super excited! I am doing harness research, and widening my understanding of who everything works. This will be a super fun project. I totally agree, once he is in shape, he will definitely be abel to pull twice his body weight. I will weight him as well, do you think that weighting my self, then picking him up and weight myself again, would give an accurate enough weight? Since I don't have an actual scale for him.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Just make sure it's heavy-duty enough for the load you plan to put in it. I've seen some carts that were pretty flimsy and flimsy is dangerous because it makes the cart more likely to tump over or even break if it, say, runs over a curb with a load on board. Making the cart/wagon wider will make it heavier, but it will also make it harder to tump over.
> 
> My first goat wagon was a metal garden cart purchased at Lowe's for around $120. I added a team pole and doubletree to mine, which I built myself. Shafts/poles and single/doubletrees are easy to make at home with a minimum of skill (waves at audience!). I made a set of shafts from a pair of hollow metal broom handles and a whiffletree from a dowel rod with screw eyes bolted to either end so I could attach my traces. People also make shafts out of metal conduit pipe which they bend in a U shape.
> 
> You can make a britchen for your harness, or you can attach thimbles to the harness. These are sleeves that hook into the saddle and slip over the ends of the shafts. When the goat stops, he stops the load through the saddle. It works for small loads on level surfaces. You can also easily make a "false britchen" which is a wide, flat piece of nylon fastened between your shafts just behind the goat's bottom. When the goat stops, the false britchen bumps into his hindquarters before the wagon can hit him. You just have to make sure your shafts are high enough in that spot so the strap hits his rump and not his hind legs. Once again, it's a great solution for flat surfaces and light workloads. I wouldn't sit in the cart and drive a goat with either of those systems, but when you're leading him around to give cart rides you can get away with a lot less gear, especially if you have a helper who can grab the wagon and help slow it down whenever you stop.


Okay, I imagine that we can make something out of wood to be pretty sturdy, the men in the family are perfectionists, so they aren't gonna let me get away with something super flimsy. I will do cart research though, and figure out the most important assists to a cart. 

Okay, I'll look into some pre-made carts, that I can modify and add on to to make it work, I appreciate all your suggestions! 😊


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Okay, another question, to start training, can we use an old dog harness with two leashes or lead rope attached to either side for training? Use the lead ropes to pull pressure? I assume that will be alright.
We keep our horses at a friends house, the same friend who is doing the pony party's. She has a way bigger pasture then us, (8 acres of pasture as of now, but 15 acre property she needs to clear and fence for pasture) but we bring our horses up to our house in the Summer for about a week at a time. Anyway, Billy is actually her's but I'm training him, and getting paid to use him for her party's since I put all the work into him. 
The Fyord she has she has wanted to teach to drive for a while, so she does have driving experience. She also knows people who have driving experience, so she can help with training as well. 

We have been really frustrated with this goat for a while, he is always escaping and breaking in to the grain room. We have actually considered getting rid of him a few times, though we would never do that haha, he just never had a purpose and was really a huge hassle. Now, we can finally use him for something! I'm very excited, thanks you guys!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Alright, I looked the Lowes website, is this the cart or the same idea of a cart that you bought? 


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sunnydaze-Decor-Red-Rolling-Garden-Cart-with-Extendable-Handle-Swivel-Seat-and-Tool-Tray/1003164366


I really like the looks of it, its light enough, 32lbs, has a seat, and doesn't look like it will be to difficult to attach the whiffletree and shafts to. What do you think? I'm still trying to look for something lighter, less then 30 pounds. Im hoping to get it down to 20-15 pounds if possible.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I don't actually "harness train" my goats. I teach them to lead with a halter and respond to voice commands: "Walk," "Whoa," "Gee," and "Haw" are the commands for go, stop, right, and left (but you can use other commands if you're more comfortable with them!). I have instructions on teaching your goat to lead properly in preparation for driving in my "Baby You Can Drive My Goat" article. There's instructions on how to teach your goat to basically "lead from behind" using a dressage whip in combination with your halter and lead. I find it's rather frustrating to ground drive without a cart because the goat always wants to turn and face you. Once he's pulling a cart, the shafts remove that option for him, making the "walk on" command more straightforward.

The great thing about goats (as opposed to horses) is that they are small and easy to control, so even if they spook and take off, they probably won't get away from you. And even if they do get away from you, there's a limit to the amount of trouble they can get into. A goat that leads well is a goat that can pull well. You don't have to do much (if any) desensitizing to the harness and cart. Once he's figured out the leading part and he trusts you to leave home, and obeys you even when he wants to pull toward tasty bushes, etc. you've got a goat that can already pull a cart even if he's never been hitched to one in his life. Desensitizing them to things other than the harness and cart is the harder part. If he's going to parties and parades, he needs to be friendly with everybody (even kids who want to throw their arms around his neck and scary old ladies who want to give him a kiss), and he needs to be unflappable around loud noises, sudden movements, barking dogs, bikes, baby strollers, etc. This all comes down to spending time with the animal. The more time you spend and the more places you go, the more he'll learn to trust and obey you. At that point, the cart becomes a total afterthought.

Your goat needs to have enough training that even if he gets nervous or irritated, he'll fall back to obeying you and maintaining his good manners. Sometimes my boys start sulking if they've given too many cart rides to too many rowdy children, but even if I can tell they're unhappy, they've never lost their temper and hit someone. As far as that goes, you need to be aware enough of your goat's moods to know when he's had enough so you can give him a break. When my goats start sulking, I know it's time to call for last rides. It's not that doing parties is physically challenging, but having to tolerate hoards of noisy strangers can be emotionally draining after a while. Rewards go a long way toward maintaining a positive attitude though. I always have a pouch with goat treats so I can reward frequently. I often hand out (or sell) cookies to people so they can feed my goats. This gives my goats a reason to like (or at least tolerate) rowdy, strange children and smothering old ladies. 

If you're looking for a good halter, I recommend these: 








Halters — Sopris Unlimited


Sopris halters are the best halter on the market for your animal, whether you have llamas, alpacas, goats, sheep, yaks, mini-donkeys, mini-horses, or reindeer.




www.soprisunlimited.com




The rings on either side of the noseband make them fit better than any others I've tried so far. 

As far as a wagon, I tend to think this is more the style you want: 


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sunnydaze-Decor-Utility-Steel-Garden-Cart-Outdoor-Lawn-Wagon-with-Removable-Sides-Heavy-Duty-400-Pound-Capacity-Yellow/1003163620



Ours is a heavier-duty model than that one and since we bought it five years ago the price is probably higher now for a decent quality wagon like mine. Mine is 2' x 4' so it's wide enough to put a low seat in it. In fact, our seat is a folding stool like this one: 








Home Basics Small Plastic Folding Stool with Non-Slip Dots


Read reviews and buy Home Basics Small Plastic Folding Stool with Non-Slip Dots at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.




www.target.com


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> I don't actually "harness train" my goats. I teach them to lead with a halter and respond to voice commands: "Walk," "Whoa," "Gee," and "Haw" are the commands for go, stop, right, and left (but you can use other commands if you're more comfortable with them!). I have instructions on teaching your goat to lead properly in preparation for driving in my "Baby You Can Drive My Goat" article. There's instructions on how to teach your goat to basically "lead from behind" using a dressage whip in combination with your halter and lead. I find it's rather frustrating to ground drive without a cart because the goat always wants to turn and face you. Once he's pulling a cart, the shafts remove that option for him, making the "walk on" command more straightforward.


Okay, this is exactly what I mean. Thank you! I will read that article and use those strategies, otherwise, I guess I just have to get him used to the harness and cart. Thanks for your help!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> You don't have to do much (if any) desensitizing to the harness and cart. Once he's figured out the leading part and he trusts you to leave home, and obeys you even when he wants to pull toward tasty bushes, etc. you've got a goat that can already pull a cart even if he's never been hitched to one in his life. Desensitizing them to things other than the harness and cart is the harder part. If he's going to parties and parades, he needs to be friendly with everybody (even kids who want to throw their arms around his neck and scary old ladies who want to give him a kiss), and he needs to be unflappable around loud noises, sudden movements, barking dogs, bikes, baby strollers, etc. This all comes down to spending time with the animal. The more time you spend and the more places you go, the more he'll learn to trust and obey you. At that point, the cart becomes a total afterthought.


He is already super desensitized. We have motor cycles, friends bringing there kids for horse lessons, and he has been around kids his whole life. He used to be owned by a gamily with younger kids, who likely chased him around and did all kinds of little kid things. So hopefully we wont really have to worry about that. 
We also have three dogs there, horses, other peoples dogs, and plenty of things he is already desensitized to. You do make a very good point though, I can see that being the most difficult part.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Alright, so I reached out to the owner of Carter pet supply on Etsy. She said that when I'm ready to get a harness, she could make me a custom one for Billy. Only issue is, I can't return it, since no one drives Pygmy's very often, she wont be able to sell it. Do I want to buy it? I can't seem to find anyone else who sells Pygmy harnesses, but it would suck if it didn't work, and I purchased it. What do you think?


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> If you're looking for a good halter, I recommend these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for these links! I just looked at them. We actually have the exact same wagon but its green. I could totally repurpose it, we don't use it for anything really.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Weeg said:


> Alright, so I reached out to the owner of Carter pet supply on Etsy. She said that when I'm ready to get a harness, she could make me a custom one for Billy. Only issue is, I can't return it, since no one drives Pygmy's very often, she wont be able to sell it. Do I want to buy it? I can't seem to find anyone else who sells Pygmy harnesses, but it would suck if it didn't work, and I purchased it. What do you think?


You know, before you go out and buy a custom harness I'd encourage you to first start halter/lead training and get your cart set up the way you want with shafts and whiffletree mounted they way you like. Then test it out using a horse halter first since they are very cheap. Honestly, the Carter harnesses aren't much better than a horse halter in my opinion. They have what I view as a few "fatal flaws" that won't cut it for a harness used for regular pulling of decent-sized loads. If you're going to cut corners on a harness, you might as well go for the cheaper option. I can't use horse halters as training harnesses unfortunately because by the time my goats are two years old and big enough to pull, they're too big for any horse halter--even a draft horse size. But with a pygmy you have that option so you might as well use it to get started. 

Hoegger still sells a Pygmy/Nigerian sized harness, and if it's the same as the one they sold years ago then it's very good. However, I can't vouch for the company itself. They went through a rough patch a few years back and I think they've been trying to pick up the pieces but since I haven't used them in years I can't guarantee they'll come through. You could always give them a call. The harness they sell isn't cheap but it's very well made and properly designed. I still have one I bought almost 20 years ago, and aside from the nylon getting fuzzy from years of hard use, it's still in perfectly serviceable condition. Caprine Supply sells one that's very similar but I only see it in "Regular" and "Large" sizes. I have no idea what size goat the "Regular" harness fits (I'm going to guess standard females) but it might be worth giving them a call.



Weeg said:


> Thank you for these links! I just looked at them. We actually have the exact same wagon but its green. I could totally repurpose it, we don't use it for anything really.


If you already have something you're not using, repurpose it! It's always best not to lay out money until you know exactly what you want. My husband and I drove around in a little garden cart like that for two years before we bought a fancy four-seater miniature horse wagon. We worked with cheap (but well designed and well made) nylon harnesses for years before we laid out big bucks for the fancy synthetic leather-look harnesses we use now. However, I still have my nylon harnesses for starting young goats and teaching harnessing classes, etc.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> You know, before you go out and buy a custom harness I'd encourage you to first start halter/lead training and get your cart set up the way you want with shafts and whiffletree mounted they way you like. Then test it out using a horse halter first since they are very cheap. Honestly, the Carter harnesses aren't much better than a horse halter in my opinion. They have what I view as a few "fatal flaws" that won't cut it for a harness used for regular pulling of decent-sized loads. If you're going to cut corners on a harness, you might as well go for the cheaper option. I can't use horse halters as training harnesses unfortunately because by the time my goats are two years old and big enough to pull, they're too big for any horse halter--even a draft horse size. But with a pygmy you have that option so you might as well use it to get started.


This is exactly why I asked. I definitely don't want to buy something that will be uncomfortable for him, and don't want to cut corners. I saw someone else had mentioned it as a good harness, so thought I would check it out. I have dog harnesses, and plenty of horse halters to use.
For the long run, I want a harness that will be comfortable of him to pull twice his weight. 
I am definitely not going to buy a harness right out of the gate. I still have halter training to work on, and a cart to get setup, and I told the lady I wasn't ready for it, so am not
committed yet.
I'll look into the ones you suggested! Thank you!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Hoegger still sells a Pygmy/Nigerian sized harness, and if it's the same as the one they sold years ago then it's very good. However, I can't vouch for the company itself. They went through a rough patch a few years back and I think they've been trying to pick up the pieces but since I haven't used them in years I can't guarantee they'll come through. You could always give them a call. The harness they sell isn't cheap but it's very well made and properly designed. I still have one I bought almost 20 years ago, and aside from the nylon getting fuzzy from years of hard use, it's still in perfectly serviceable condition. Caprine Supply sells one that's very similar but I only see it in "Regular" and "Large" sizes. I have no idea what size goat the "Regular" harness fits (I'm going to guess standard females) but it might be worth giving them a call.


Awesome, I just looked them up, and the harness is actually cheeper by $10 then the one I was looking into on Etsy. The harness looks very well made, though I don't have much harness experience, hahah! I'll bookmark it and keep it in mind, assuming this is the one you talking about- Hoegger Supply Co. :: Goat...


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> If you already have something you're not using, repurpose it! It's always best not to lay out money until you know exactly what you want. My husband and I drove around in a little garden cart like that for two years before we bought a fancy four-seater miniature horse wagon. We worked with cheap (but well designed and well made) nylon harnesses for years before we laid out big bucks for the fancy synthetic leather-look harnesses we use now. However, I still have my nylon harnesses for starting young goats and teaching harnessing classes, etc.


I would love to repurpose it, but, it is 10 more pounds then the other Sunnydaze I found at Lowes- https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sunnydaze-...e-Handle-Swivel-Seat-and-Tool-Tray/1003164366 . We would have to weld sides on it, add a frame to attach things to, and by then it may even be up to 40 pounds anyway. I'm trying to find something as light as possible, since he can only carry so much weight.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Weeg said:


> Awesome, I just looked them up, and the harness is actually cheeper by $10 then the one I was looking into on Etsy. The harness looks very well made, though I don't have much harness experience, hahah! I'll bookmark it and keep it in mind, assuming this is the one you talking about- Hoegger Supply Co. :: Goat...


Yes, that's the one, although why they chose that goat to model it on I don't know! It's obviously WAY too big for him! He's a yearling and could have modeled the Pygmy/Nigerian harness better than the full-size! 

This is the harness we bought from Hoegger Supply in 2003: 









The faux sheepskin padding appears to have gotten fluffier over the years, but otherwise the harness looks the same.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Yes, that's the one, although why they chose that goat to model it on I don't know! It's obviously WAY too big for him! He's a yearling and could have modeled the Pygmy/Nigerian harness better than the full-size!
> 
> This is the harness we bought from Hoegger Supply in 2003:
> View attachment 206140
> ...


Awesome! I'll keep that in mind! It seems durable, and you obviously have more experience then me, so I'll take your word for the quality. I'll do some more research to on who the harness should fit.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Weeg said:


> I would love to repurpose it, but, it is 10 more pounds then the other Sunnydaze I found at Lowes- https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sunnydaze-...e-Handle-Swivel-Seat-and-Tool-Tray/1003164366 . We would have to weld sides on it, add a frame to attach things to, and by then it may even be up to 40 pounds anyway. I'm trying to find something as light as possible, since he can only carry so much weight.


Use it as a starter/training wagon. The heavier weight is actually better for the empty pulling you'll start with. You can also use the current wagon as a guinea pig to design your shafts and whiffletree on. You need to figure out how you want to attach them to the wagon, how long and wide your shafts need to be, whether you want them to have a curve in them or just angle upwards, where to place your footman loops, etc. You've got a bit to do before you can get going, and there's nothing more discouraging than getting a brand new wagon and being all ready to roll and then realizing you need to go back to the drawing board with your hitching mechanism (been there, done that!). The first thing you try is almost never what ends up being your final design, so take advantage of what you already have!


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Use it as a starter/training wagon. The heavier weight is actually better for the empty pulling you'll start with. You can also use the current wagon as a guinea pig to design your shafts and whiffletree on. You need to figure out how you want to attach them to the wagon, how long and wide your shafts need to be, whether you want them to have a curve in them or just angle upwards, where to place your footman loops, etc. You've got a bit to do before you can get going, and there's nothing more discouraging than getting a brand new wagon and being all ready to roll and then realizing you need to go back to the drawing board with your hitching mechanism (been there, done that!). The first thing you try is almost never what ends up being your final design, so take advantage of what you already have!


Okay, got it. Now this is were I need to do a LOT of research. If I was at this point right now, I would have absolutely no idea were to start. I'll do as much research as I can to figure out how to work a cart, what this needs to be, curve in the shafts Vs. straight, ( I have no idea what the difference makes), and all the complicated stuff. Hahah!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yes, that's where it's actually really nice to have a "guinea pig" wagon you can experiment on without worrying over whether you'll mar the paint job or bend the axle. Training your goat on a practice cart is also really nice because there are usually a few bumps and tumps while you figure things out. One time my goat Sputnik got out of control because I tried to drive him away from the house in a halter instead of a bridle. He has a very prominent Roman nose so the halter noseband slips either too far up or down if he pulls very hard. If that happens I have almost no control. Well he pulled against the halter and the noseband slipped up near his eyes so he took advantage and ran under the single-wire electric horse fence to take a short-cut across the meadow back to the house. Unfortunately he picked a spot with both a ditch and a T-post. I fell out when the cart tumped over in the ditch, and then he wedged the T-post between the wagon box and the wheel and broke the weld that holds the front axle to the wagon frame. There was still a bolt holding it together, but it wobbled a lot and was no longer safe to pull weight. I had to repair the wagon before we could use it again. So yeah, you'll be glad to have something you can train and experiment with! There are always a few things we have to learn the hard way.


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## Weeg (Jan 4, 2021)

Damfino said:


> Yes, that's where it's actually really nice to have a "guinea pig" wagon you can experiment on without worrying over whether you'll mar the paint job or bend the axle. Training your goat on a practice cart is also really nice because there are usually a few bumps and tumps while you figure things out. One time my goat Sputnik got out of control because I tried to drive him away from the house in a halter instead of a bridle. He has a very prominent Roman nose so the halter noseband slips either too far up or down if he pulls very hard. If that happens I have almost no control. Well he pulled against the halter and the noseband slipped up near his eyes so he took advantage and ran under the single-wire electric horse fence to take a short-cut across the meadow back to the house. Unfortunately he picked a spot with both a ditch and a T-post. I fell out when the cart tumped over in the ditch, and then he wedged the T-post between the wagon box and the wheel and broke the weld that holds the front axle to the wagon frame. There was still a bolt holding it together, but it wobbled a lot and was no longer safe to pull weight. I had to repair the wagon before we could use it again. So yeah, you'll be glad to have something you can train and experiment with! There are always a few things we have to learn the hard way.


Wow! Quite the story! That is something I could totally see Billy doing! Lol!
I'll totally use our wagon then. Use it for training, then get something nicer for the actual parties. Thanks for all your help here!


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## Feira426 (Dec 11, 2019)

How is your training going? I’m interested in this too!


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