# What drug do you use when surgically castrating?



## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

I was looking into Banding, but after a lot of reading and responses on TGS I want to go surgical. But I assume there is some sort of numbing medication right? Because I have 2 150 pound angora bucks that I can't sell as bucks and I'm not going to be able to hold them down if they want up during the procedure! I really don't want to take them to auction, but the choices are getting slimmer and slimmer. After all, who can afford to feed a couple fiber bucks that are too small to breed my girls to and not nice enough for pets? I don't really know what I should do...I just called my local auction and they have a lot of meat buyers and I don't feel good about selling them for meat... Sorry for the venting... got a little off topic there.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

You may have to ask a vet ... putting goats under can be a very tricky thing.


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Agreed that surgery is tricky. I lost a wonderful little guy last year who was to well endowed to band at 8 weeks so took to vet to have done and brought home his poor little body.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am all for what you are wanting to do, I find it to be clean and easy BUT, these are big boys, you are looking at a high risk of them bleeding out. Do you have emasculators??? Your going to want them with them being so big. They do have large bands, but the tool for that is expensive but maybe you could get a hold of cattle people and see if they will let you use theirs. Now if you are dead set on doing this way #1 do it during a nice cool time. Now #2 you can tie them so they can not get away, get them on their side on the ground, you are going to need a lot of help, get his front legs put a rope around the ankles and then tie off to a post or something, do the same on the back legs. You want him stretched out as far as you can get him. Have someone sit on his neck and hold his head down that way he will not slam his head to the ground. On one of our places we dont have a calf table so have to brand and castrate this way. I WILL NEVER HAVE A GOT PUT TO SLEEP AGAIN!!! The risk is to high and lost a family friend that way. If it came between death and put under I would rather just put them down. Good luck and hope this help you


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Sorry to disagree Jessica84, but I've heard some horror story about using cattle bands on goats ... have you tried it? Any issues?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

This is going to sound silly but maybe an ice pack? We haven't surgically castrated, but we also used some Ow-Eze from Molly's herbals ...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No sorry, disagree away lol, no I have never used it, was just trying to think of something other then the knife, since like I said has a great chance of bleeding too much. Once our little guys (cows) get to a size and have not be cut yet, we just for go the extra money a steer will bring and let them sell as bulls, a bull is better then a dead steer.


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## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Oh my gosh. I didn't realize it was so dangerous. You know I don't think I am nearly experienced enough to do this anymore. I may just have to find another way or take them to an auction. I think that is what I will do. I would never forgive myself it they bled to death.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Jessica84 said:


> No sorry, disagree away lol, no I have never used it, was just trying to think of something other then the knife, since like I said has a great chance of bleeding too much. Once our little guys (cows) get to a size and have not be cut yet, we just for go the extra money a steer will bring and let them sell as bulls, a bull is better then a dead steer.


Ah, gotcha. I had just heard from my vet that sometimes if the bands aren't right, it doesn't cut off circulation completely and then you have mucho infection. No fun =<

@ goat luver 101, do you have a good vet? Will he or another breeder nearby help you out?


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

We have done many surgical castrations and I would not concider it on a goat so big. We have trouble holding down the little ones. We do not numb the sack but we will give them Valerian root and chamomille and sometimes Calfcalm to help them relax.
I have heard of people successfully banding older bucks but have never tried it myself.
Good luck to you.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Have used cattle band on a adult ND buck and it worked fine. With any band it has to be big enough to get the testies in but tight enough that when released it cuts off the circulation.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

What is the reason the auction will not take a buck?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

We used the cattle bands on a few big bucks and they seemed to work fine. We have also cut a few big bucks with very little blood, but they were difficult to hold. 

I have had many goats anaesthetised without complications, i think it just comes down to having a skilled anaesthetist.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I wouldn't knife a buck that big, way too risky. There are larger bands for cattle, but they are manually tightened, with a device much like a winch, but can be tightened too much or not enough. I also would not band or knife any animal this time of year, way too many flies and a much higher chance of infection. I would just sell them as bucks rather than put them through the stress of being castrated.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

hmmmm I've heard of a LOT of breeders that castrate their adult bucks when they are finished breeding with both cattle bands or the regular green bands (with the green you have to pull the skin through first and then push in one testicle at a time. ) Haven't heard of any problems doing it this way? A friend of mine castrated an adult buck this way by herself without issues.... except that she found out he had 3 testicles. LOL Now that was a surprise!


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Uh.. are these the fainters? (They may just pass out on you. JK.) But if not..Oh wow.. get help to hold the goat.. I have no experience with bigger goats in banding and probably wouldnt do it. But... if you do use those cattle bands.. I would think that once they are on.. make sure that they are good and tight..or else .. they will have to be cut. and get an experienced person to help you... or butcher them or sell for meat?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I just can not come up with a thought of why you cant sell a buck there. If the auction did that here they would not have hardly any goats go threw the sale.


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I think she means she doesn't want to take them to auction to be sold for meat.

I also think, that surgical castration of that large an animal should be left to a vet. We have to admit it when something is just too much for a novice. If you are a vet tech and you've helped with many...maybe you could do your own. I'm not sure if it's even legal...could come close to "inhumane treatment" if you started and couldn't finish. Those blood vessels are quite large in a big animal and they have to be tied off before you cut them. 

Like it or not, sometimes fiber boys must go to the meat market. The fiber industry in your area probably won't support a lot of bucks (mine won't and I live in Amish country). It's why I sold most of my Cashmere herd and I cut back breeding them every year. But, they did sell quick and the "ethnic" folks like them as bucks...so don't castrate them and then wish you hadn't. Good luck. :hi5:


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I scanned through this post so it sounds like this buck in question is already a big guy. When I worked at the large animal vet clinic we had a really good goat vet. She would only do surgical castrations when the guys were still young because goats do not handle normal sedation drugs well. When they get to be so big cutting is not a good idea. If you like to band banding is an option but I really like the idea of the Burdizzo or Ritchey Nipper (leaning more toward the Ritchey Nipper but they are almost impossible to find right now. You can read up on it at http://fiascofarm.com/goats/buck-wether-info.htm scroll down to about 3/4 of the page. If it was me needing to do this I would try to find either someone with one of these to borrow or try to find one to buy.

How this helps. And this is just my opinion.


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## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey the only reason i wanted to band them is that there is no way i can sell them as bucks aroound here and i figured if i wethered them and then took them to auction it woulld be less likely they would be sold for meat. But....i Had no idea it would be so risky. I am just going to have suck it up and sell them at a meat auction i suppose. I have given them a great life, but i am a big weanie when it comes to selling for meat. Thanks for all the imput guys, i am really glad i asked and didnt just do it because i dont think they would have made it. Thanks.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm sorry )= There are other options, but you have to do what you think is best for your goats. And you're right, you gave them a great life =D


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