# thiamine deficiency



## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

six shooter just lost a very dear doe, most likely due to this, and fritzie says one of her does developed it eating fescue hay. does anyone have some good info on this? from what foods do the goats usually get it? is it more likely in some parts of the country than others, like the selenium problem??
thanks. this was such an awful happening for six shooter. don't want to go there if i can avoid it.


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## enjoytheride (Oct 5, 2007)

I know that bracken fern and horse tails (both grow rampant here) can cause thiamin deficiency Also administering anti-biotics can cause the bacteria that make vitamin B1 in the gut to die and thereby cause a deficiency too. 
I pull all the bracken fern or horse tails I can find each spring for a couple of months but I think that one of my goat got wobbley from eating it through the fence from my neigbors place. 
Anyway I think keeping a bottle of thiamin and a bottle of b complex is good. It's very inexpensive. It doesn't hurt them to give a couple of the doses of the bcomplex just because you think there might be a problem. IMO only.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/goat_polio.htm

this website really explained it well for me. The vet told me ANY time you have a goat that is just unhappy, dumpy, not her/himself you give them Vit B complex and Thiamine, says it wont hurt them. Alot of sudden deaths that cannot be explained are usually this, it get knock a goat down in 24 hours or take days like what happened to geisha. Everyone and I mean everyone that owns at least one goat MUST have vit B COMPLEX and thiamine in their cupboard, if I had the correct stuff Geisha, my very loved and prized doe would not be dead right now, I am hoping by my loss someones loved goat will survive. thanks everyone for their help, I plan on doing alot more reserch on this.


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## cute kids (Oct 5, 2007)

thank you, six shooter. i do have the b complex; you can be sure the thiamin is going to be here always, as well. 
and stacy----this is how gw was always so helpful, supplying information found nowhere else, or else just unknown to many of us. so i thank you again for going through the hassle of setting this up. even if you have helped to save one goat from thaimin deficiency you have done a fine service. 
personally, i think it is too bad that gw didn't do something similar for the interim, though i am sure they never thought they'd be down so long. when a goat is suddenly sick, one doesn't really have time to start a big research project to find out what is what. and so many diseases have such similar symptoms, at least for a time.
your loss is already helping, six shooter. that is a fine legacy for your geisha.[/img]


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## fritzie (Oct 6, 2007)

it can hit very fast my doe was fine the night before but the next morning she did not want to eat. i called one vet out & he said she had pnemonia(sp) i kept giving her 12cc of b complex fortified(the fortified has more thimine in it) twice a day. finally on the third day i called another vet & she came out & said right away what it was. the only reason i did not lose karma was because of the vit b complex. i now keep a bottle of both the b-complex fortified & thimine on hand at all times. as soon as one is off just a little they get a good shot of the b complex.
six shooter you did every thing you could do with out knowing what it was for sure. i feel bad that i did not post sooner. the vet did say that once they got use to the fescue hay they would be o.k.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

CUte Kids, you made me cry with the whole legacy that Geisha is leaving behind, she was an amazing doe and her death was sure way too early. Her son will be passing on her blood and he has such a sweet personality just like his momma. It is no ones fault from this, unofrtunatly yet fortunatly it is a learning experience, just too bad she had to go soo soon. SHe is defiently a legacy, I will make sure of that. Thanks guys, now that you all made me cry!! :lol:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK all, I feel really dumb here right now. I have been raising goats for a long time and you are ll making me think. 
I thought that Vit -B Complex had Thiamine in it. Are they two different bottles? Or wait am I thinking about Vit- B12?
Help. I have never had a problem with a lack of thiamine, and I have treated with Chorid, for years, and that is what the Vet said to treat with, and never said anything about thiamine. This is a goat or a ruminant vet.
I am trying to help my 4Hers to get their med kits ready, so I guess I better get the correct info. 
Again, I am so sorry for this loss of your beloved doe sixshooter, but I guess because of your loss, we are all getting a little more educated. (ok, maybe it is just me).


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## enjoytheride (Oct 5, 2007)

I wonder about it too- I gave Tim just two shots of LA200 and it was enough to push her over to goat polio- so it makes me wonder how close to the edge of deficency my goats are and why.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

B complex is a multi vitamine it has a number of B vitamines in it including B1. B1 is thiamine. But it doesn't have enouth B1 in it to be effective to treat polio though if it is all you have on hand a couple shots of it until you can get some B1 is a good idea.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Remember that extremely stressful times and sudden changes in weather and moldy hay or feed can cause polio too, I don't know about the over administration of anti-biotics but I'm sure that would stress their system quite a bit.
Remember, that when stocking your medicine cabinet to get *fortified* B Complex. Fortified B has 100mg per cc of thiamin in it compared to regular which has only 12.5 mg per cc. Even though fortified has more thiamin in it, it still is not the same thing as thiamin hydrochloride, what you use to treat polio.
If I find it I'll post it, but on a Yahoo list a lady explained the use of Corrid on goats. She said that yes, it does deplete the rumen of thiamin but cocci feed off thiamin in the rumen. She said that you have to deplete the thiamin in the rumen just long enough to kill off the cocci. If you give to much, you will rid the goat of cocci as well as all of their thiamin. If you give the correct dose then you shouldn't have any problems. I believe she mentioned that one week after treatment is done to start them on a series of thiamin shots to replace that that was lost during treatment. I use Sulmet to treat cocci but I still give them B complex or thiamin one week after treatment is done.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

i found this artical on thiamine deficiancy and goat polio

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/liste ... gwmf.shtml

beth


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK, goathappy. So it is Fortified B Complex. That is what I really was after. Now, the artical that sparks879 just put up, said it is B1.Or did I read it wrong.


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## enjoytheride (Oct 5, 2007)

B1 (thiamin) treats goat polio- B complex has B1 in it but a much lower levels than it usually needed for treatment but it can be used by giving more. Fortified B Complex has more of the B1 in it. Complex just has other b vitamins too.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

When _treating_ polio, it is best to give thiamin. If you don't have thiamin and your goat has polio then give them fortified B until you can get a hold of some thiamin. The foritified B should keep symptoms from getting worse but thiamin will help get them better and get them out of it.
I keep fortified B on hand rather than regular B anyway, when I have an off goat, it works better than regular B.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OK, another question. How long PASS the exp. Date do you think the Fortified B is good for? I do not know if that is one that I just trashed. I had some meds that were four years expired.
Please excuse me, I feel really stupid right now. I thought that you could not buy straight Thiamine. That is why you give the fortified B, because that was the best way to get the thiamine. Am I understanding this right.
Again, I am SO sorry. I never have to give any meds at all so it is hard for this to sink in. I have never had to give ANYTHING but CDT and dewormer. Safeguard and Ivomectin, so anything else just will not sink in. If someone would hit me in the head hard enough then maybe it will click. I bought all these bottles of thing, Fortified B BO SE, and such and I just threw them out because they were SO outdated. They were never even opened.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

Don't feel stupid, I ask questions like this all the time 
If they were never opened, they are still good. My thiamin is a year past the exp date and it's still good. They say as long as you use a clean needle each time you use it will be fine.
Thiamin is only available by prescription only, the fortified B will help them stay alive while your getting thiamin. IMO, thiamin is going to be the best thing you can give them if they have polio. Most vets have it on hand.


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