# What kind of hay do your goats like ?



## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

I have four Nigerian dwarf goats (3 does , 1 buckling ) 
I’ve had them for 2 weeks and I’m new to all this .

They’ve been eating alfalfa .
I read online that alfalfa isn’t ideal for bucks ( I don’t remember why ) , so I got them some grass hay .


None of them are into it .
For the alfalfa they would come running .
With the grass hay they take a few
Bites and leave it be .
The guy at the feed store said the only grass hay they had was Bermuda grass hay so that’s what I got .


What kind of hay is best ? What
Kind will they eat, other than just alfalfa.

Oat hay ??


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Mine are stuck with grass hay, because that is all I have. Any alfalfa was drowned out this year. If I gave alfalfa, there is no way they would eat plain old grass hay, we've had that fight before. They lasted a couple days before they deigned to eat the common grass hay. When I had a regular barn full of alfalfa, everyone ate it, bucks, milking does, kids, yearlings. All did great on it. 

Your goats will get hungry and eat the hay you have, but don't give alfalfa while you are trying to make them eat the grass hay. It's difficult to gradually switch from alfalfa to other hay, they would pick out the alfalfa and waste the rest.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Their natural feed is twigs and leaves. There are some toxic kinds, but many kinds you might be able to find close to your living place or your work? We had a list, but I do not remember where. Poplar, maple, apple, pine ...

Dwarf goats and males are extra in for overfeeding, that is why alfalfa is a bit too rich for them.


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## cristina-sorina (May 4, 2018)

Nikki0209 said:


> I have four Nigerian dwarf goats (3 does , 1 buckling )
> I've had them for 2 weeks and I'm new to all this .
> 
> They've been eating alfalfa .
> ...


It depends what you're trying to do with your goats as to what hay you want to use. I can only comment on Dairy, I don't raise meat goats. Ideally for our pregnant does and does in milk I like at least some alfalfa mixed into my hay. If I don't have alfalfa hay I supplement with alfalfa pellets and/or Chaffhaye. For pets I'd give grass hay as long as their body condition is good. I've never used oat hay, so I can't comment on that type.

Currently I'm feeding our goats a clover orchard grass mix free choice along with Chaffhaye morning and night. Last year was terrible for alfalfa and we are currently going to be buying more alfalfa hay soon but don't have any just yet.

You're probably referring to the high calcium content in alfalfa which is why some say it's not good for the boys. They are more prone to urinary calculi. What some don't realize (I didn't know this either until this past year) is that the calcium to phosphorus ratio is what's important. If you feed alfalfa to your boys you should also feed something with phosphorus such as grain, this will help prevent the calculi from forming. Also, alfalfa is pretty rich and the boys usually don't need to become overweight. Other more knowledgeable site members can probably add more to what I'm saying.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Alfalfa is great for them. Give them pelleted goat feed once a day containing ammonium chloride as well.

Is your buck wethered or breeding the does?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If all you have is grass hay, you need to pay attention to other sources of calcium so you don't get too far into the Phosphorus end of that ratio. My favourite hay is a 2nd cutting alfalfa orchardgrass mix, but you have to feed what you can get. More important than KIND of hay, is quality of hay. You want dairy or horse quality, not goat quality, which is approximately the nutritional equivalent of thorny bedding.

Currently, it is summertime, and for my goats, the living is easy, with their acres of forage.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:up:


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It is so irritating to see on Craigslist hay advertised as "goat hay" because it is mostly weeds, sticks and moldy or dusty. 

I say our hay is plain old grass hay, but nutritionally, it is good hay, just not like alfalfa. But, no mold or dust!


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Bermuda is actually one of the better grass hays you can feed (IMHO)
It usually runs about 2-1 calcium to phosphorus.
My Nigerians do really well on it supplemented with alfalfa pellets. When I say they do really well I mean maintain good condition and milk 1000 + lbs. Not leader board production, but pretty darn good.
My Toggenburgs need more input to do well but they eat bermuda hay really well.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> It is so irritating to see on Craigslist hay advertised as "goat hay" because it is mostly weeds, *sticks and moldy or dusty*.


Uuughhh!


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Mine wont eat first cutting Timothy, but second cutting or third cutting anything they like. They prefer alfalfa, I prefer orchard cause its cheeper.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

SalteyLove said:


> Alfalfa is great for them. Give them pelleted goat feed once a day containing ammonium chloride as well.
> 
> Is your buck wethered or breeding the does?


He's only 9 weeks old ( got him at 6wks old and he's been eating alfalfa since then. Haven't had any problems ). He will breed the does in he future . Supposedly the does are pregnant . I can't tell, but the lady I bought them from claims they are.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> If all you have is grass hay, you need to pay attention to other sources of calcium so you don't get too far into the Phosphorus end of that ratio. My favourite hay is a 2nd cutting alfalfa orchardgrass mix, but you have to feed what you can get. More important than KIND of hay, is quality of hay. You want dairy or horse quality, not goat quality, which is approximately the nutritional equivalent of thorny bedding.
> 
> Currently, it is summertime, and for my goats, the living is easy, with their acres of forage.


Mine will have plenty to forage on here soon , so I'm looking forward to that ! Just need to fence off their pasture .


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

You could mix Bermuda and alfalfa. That would be extremely ideal.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> You could mix Bermuda and alfalfa. That would be extremely ideal.


That's what I've been doing since I have a third bale of alfalfa left . But once that's gone it's grass hay and weeds for them until the bale of Bermuda is gone . My goats are going crazy over goathead weed too and I have a ton of those .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> My goats are going crazy over goathead weed


do you have a picture or a scientific name for that plant?


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> do you have a picture or a scientific name for that plant?


The scientific name is Tribulus terrestris . It's all over the place in central California . Extremely annoying , literally impossible to get rid of . Has thorns on it that stick in ur shoes , stab your feet , and pop bike tires . My goats only get to eat them before the thorns form , because I'm afraid of the thorns hurting their mouth or throat or causing them tummy pain . I tried to research if it's safe for them to eat and couldn't find much info , other than a few other goat owners saying their goats eat it too and seem to be fine . If you have any info on it I'd love to hear it .

I googled toxic plants in California and didn't see it on the list . I'm horrible at identifying plants tho....without glasses they all look the same .


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> do you have a picture or a scientific name for that plant?


Here's some pics of it


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

There is an app for your phone that when you take a picture within the app, it will identify the plant for you. Called "PlantSnap", on google play store and that place for apple phones.
It worked really well for me the one time I tried it., 7 out of 10 correct, I think.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> There is an app for your phone that when you take a picture within the app, it will identify the plant for you. Called "PlantSnap", on google play store and that place for apple phones.
> It worked really well for me the one time I tried it., 7 out of 10 correct, I think.


Awesome ! I'll be trying that .


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Alfalfa is great for them! I feed all mine alfalfa in the form of pellets and chaffhaye. (Alf hay is a bit of a drive from me and I don't have a trailer to bring a lot back)

Our boys all eat alf pellets and chaffhaye daily, but I provide them with grass hay as well to balance the Ca/Ph ratio. My girls are all on the same except the milkers get an 18% dairy ration on the stand. They all do great like this.


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## smlovig (Apr 19, 2017)

Fiasco Farms has a great list of what is safe and what is toxic for goats. Our 12 goats have weedy pastures to enjoy, and get a wheelbarrow full of freshly cut weedy alfalfa each day for protein. Be sure to provide dry forage along with fresh grazing during the summers - they need dry to balance their diet.


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

I have Nigerians. I feed some alfalfa to the kids until they're older. Mine are spoiled horribly. They turn up their noses at grass hay. I feed orchard grass and the milkers get orchard and alfalfa at night. Bottom line, you feed what's available. Mine have never liked Timothy which is the grass hay here. Usually a mix of fescue/Timothy. If your new doe's are pregnant, would be nice to know when they were bred. Grain in late pregnancy with the Nigerians can cause problems, in my experience. This year I didn't start grain until the last couple weeks before kidding and it was sparingly....


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## Sophie123 (Feb 18, 2019)

We only feed alfalfa/grass mix in February and March , when they are pregnant and due to kid. It's too expensive here ( $6 a bale or more) to feed all winter. They are out on the pasture in the summer but get some grass hay at night in the barn or on rain days. They love alfalfa, like mixed grass hay with some weeds in it ( our own hay) , tolerate some other hay. They don't like first cutting orchard only ( good cow hay). Some weeds they absolutely love , you can see them pick them out of the hay, like these plants with little green berries on them, not sure what that is. They love any sort of vines outside , or berries ( blackberries, poison ivy, ok, virginia creeper , wineberries, our blueberries I have to fence in...)
We also feed grain in winter, very little the rest of the year ( beef commodity which has copper and 3 way mostly, )


these are meat goats mostly, the 2 milk goats get some grain every day while milking


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I feed 2nd & 3rd cutting orchard mixed with some Timothy.


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## Drmike (Jun 23, 2019)

Nikki0209 said:


> I have four Nigerian dwarf goats (3 does , 1 buckling )
> I've had them for 2 weeks and I'm new to all this .
> 
> They've been eating alfalfa .
> ...


From what I've seen goats love variety. If you can get hay and alfalfa why not give them both. Mine get both alfalfa and Timothy as supplement to forage


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## Lady of the Woods (Jul 28, 2019)

Goats are made to forage if they can. They do a very good job picking the best food for them and though they can eat just grass its not the most ideal for them.

However if they cant forage for one reason or another, i find that a mix of alfalfa and either timothy or orchard (i prefer orchard. i have a local hay dealer with some great stuff). Hay quality is a huge factor in whether they will eat it too. Goats will flat refuse to eat poor or moldy hay. So scratch it, smell it, and pull it apart before you buy it. Should be dry with a bit of a sweet smell. No moldy, musty or acrid smells. Its even better if its dry but still greenish in color.

Alfalfa is very rich food. Its energy dense and contains a lot of minerals. If you feed only alfalfa they can get too much minerals and it can throw off their guts. However its really good for pregnant or milking does and pretty much everyone in winter but don't overfeed any wethers with it because of the urinary calculii issue. Its less of an issue for intact bucks. Their urethra typically widens enough to pass the crystals.

Timothy and orchard contain more fiber and is less energy dense and because goats are ruminants they are well adapted to sit around, chewing their cud and digest these high fiber foods. It helps balance them out. It keeps the bacteria in their gut healthy and helps keep them at a healthy weight.

If you feed only hay you want to offer plenty of water and free choice minerals. Make sure the minerals are designed for goats. They have unique needs.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Lady of the Woods said:


> Goats are made to forage if they can. They do a very good job picking the best food for them and though they can eat just grass its not the most ideal for them.
> 
> However if they cant forage for one reason or another, i find that a mix of alfalfa and either timothy or orchard (i prefer orchard. i have a local hay dealer with some great stuff). Hay quality is a huge factor in whether they will eat it too. Goats will flat refuse to eat poor or moldy hay. So scratch it, smell it, and pull it apart before you buy it. Should be dry with a bit of a sweet smell. No moldy, musty or acrid smells. Its even better if its dry but still greenish in color.
> 
> ...


I've been letting him forage in my backyard which is overgrown with weeds for like 10 minutes twice a day . Plus his hay , plus alfalfa.

Question : if they are picky enough to refuse moldy hay , will they also not eat anything toxic ? There are some questionable weeds I've been keeping him away from but I can't seem to find out if they are toxic .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

They don't always just "know". Most of this is taught to kids from their dams.

So, they might keep away from something dangerous, or they might eat something toxic and live, and learn not to do that again, or they might eat something toxic and die. 

Perhaps offer just a single leaf of what you are worried about and see if it sickens him and if so, maybe your goat won't try it again...


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## ScottE (May 4, 2019)

Nikki0209 said:


> I've been letting him forage in my backyard which is overgrown with weeds for like 10 minutes twice a day . Plus his hay , plus alfalfa.
> 
> Question : if they are picky enough to refuse moldy hay , will they also not eat anything toxic ? There are some questionable weeds I've been keeping him away from but I can't seem to find out if they are toxic .


10 minutes is nothing, goats are kinda slow and forage is not a very calorie-dense food, and you'll notice if you watch them that they take frequent breaks in foraging to chew their cud... so it takes a lot of time to convert forage into calories. If you can give them access all day that would move the needle.

Most weeds outside of hemlock and nightshade are not toxic, obviously,there are notable counter-examples but in my experiance, while they may nibble on things they won't eat enough of anything toxic to hurt themselves if they have access to plenty of other choices.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

ScottE said:


> 10 minutes is nothing, goats are kinda slow and forage is not a very calorie-dense food, and you'll notice if you watch them that they take frequent breaks in foraging to chew their cud... so it takes a lot of time to convert forage into calories. If you can give them access all day that would move the needle.
> 
> Most weeds outside of hemlock and nightshade are not toxic, obviously,there are notable counter-examples but in my experiance, while they may nibble on things they won't eat enough of anything toxic to hurt themselves if they have access to plenty of other choices.


I pair the ten minutes of weed grazing with alfalfa and grass hay later in the day . He's steadily gaining weight . He's not quite ten weeks old.

He will have a pasture soon, but as of now he's in my backyard. I'd let him graze my yard all day if I didn't think he'd destroy things.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I completely agree with the time limitations. 10 minutes is nothing.

But here in the Southeast, there are plenty of toxic plants, such as the Beautiful Laurels, Hydrangeas, and Rhododendron. And the Horse Nettle.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> I'd let him graze my yard all day if I didn't think he'd destroy things.


I completely forget there are people, NORMAL PEOPLE, who take this into consideration!!!


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

I haven't really read through the whole thread yet, but here is my advice, so sorry if anything is repeated.
I give my goats free choice coastal (grass) hay and alfalfa. My goats LOVE the alfalfa, but will leave the hay for 2-3 days until it is finally all gone. I dont give them anything else until ALL their hay is gone. But the goats most FAVORITE thing in the world is when i lift under the pallet I keep hay and alfalfa on and it is all mixed together with their favorite little leaves from the alfalfa and the thinner stems from the grass hay. They eat that stuff up like its going outta style! I have asked my feed store if they have any 60-40 alfalfa grass hay, but i cant find it anywhere.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I completely forget there are people, NORMAL PEOPLE, who take this into consideration!!!


Lol I'm not so much worried about the looks of anything , what I'm worried about is the cables that run from my AC to underneath the house .


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I completely agree with the time limitations. 10 minutes is nothing.
> 
> But here in the Southeast, there are plenty of toxic plants, such as the Beautiful Laurels, Hydrangeas, and Rhododendron. And the Horse Nettle.


by the end of the ten minutes he looks HUGE and bloated .

Then he chills and plays in his huge pen . Then he eats hay and alfalfa twice a day after that .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> by the end of the ten minutes he looks HUGE and bloated .


This strikes me as odd. Is there any way you can get a pic of him being huge and bloated? From above looking down on him would show us much.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Nikki0209 said:


> by the end of the ten minutes he looks HUGE and bloated .
> 
> Then he chills and plays in his huge pen . Then he eats hay and alfalfa twice a day after that .


Mine always look like that. lol My nigis take a break from eating grass, by eating leaves from bushes, they take a break from eating leaves on bushes by eating bamboo, they take a break from eating bamboo by eating Kudzu, by then it is time to.... eat, pelletized feed and alfalfa pellets. Rest up and do it again tomorrow.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I was just saying that bloat kills. That doesn't sound like bloat. But if someone is unfamiliar with what a full rumen looks like, they might have the wrong idea.

But I don't want to be dismissive, because if he IS bloated...


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Are the sides even? Mine can get pretty wide one day and slimmer the next. Bloat usually involves the left side being bigger and rising above the spine, and distress.


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## Drmike (Jun 23, 2019)

I’ve been studying toxic plants and how my goats forage.

They sniff everything.
They take a mouthful.
Next day they may take a few more
after a while when they didn’t get sick and if they like the taste they add that plant to their list of approved plants they carry around in their heads

Sone toxic plants taste bad they avoid them

Sone toxic plants taste ok and are only toxic when wilting these plants they happily eat. (Eg wild Hydrangea) Their instinct to not eat fallen leaves so much protects them

Some toxic plants are only toxic in large amounts so they snack on them (eg ferns)

A well fed goat foraging around toxic plants has chance to test and avoid toxic ones the danger is a hungry goat exposed to toxic plants. They may over eat take too much and suffer

It is interesting watching them sniff a perfectly good looking plant then not eat it. When I research that plant it’s almost always toxic. Many plants have evolved to deter browsers

There are a LOT of toxic plants around! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!

(I use the app ‘PlantSnap’ to ID plants then google search to see if it’s toxic to goats ) but they will naturally find out for themselves which ones are safe to browse on -provided they are not starving- which is why your 10 min a day thing ontop of hay is probably a safe way to start them browsing


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Mine always look like that. lol My nigis take a break from eating grass, by eating leaves from bushes, they take a break from eating leaves on bushes by eating bamboo, they take a break from eating bamboo by eating Kudzu, by then it is time to.... eat, pelletized feed and alfalfa pellets. Rest up and do it again tomorrow.


Nice . mine have a tree in their pen . They have constant access to food , just not constant access to the whole yard .


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Nikki0209 said:


> Nice . mine have a tree in their pen . They have constant access to food , just not constant access to the whole yard .


Just another way of saying that they will not stop eating.
It is great you are limiting his time eating while his rumen is still getting going good. In the wild they had to eat continuously because of low protein foods. Now we have to satisfy their chew along with their nutrients.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Dwarf Dad said:


> Just another way of saying that they will not stop eating.
> It is great you are limiting his time eating while his rumen is still getting going good. In the wild they had to eat continuously because of low protein foods. Now we have to satisfy their chew along with their nutrients.


Yeah I'm just trying my best .
And you all have been extremely helpful with advice. I always like advice from people who have some kind of experience . Unfortunately in the real world ,everyone ( people who have no goats OR aren't even trying to learn about goats and just assume they know everything ) has been saying he's either too fat or too skinny . When in reality he doesn't have fat ...he has a belly full of food .


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Nikki0209 said:


> Yeah I'm just trying my best .
> And you all have been extremely helpful with advice. I always like advice from people who have some kind of experience . Unfortunately in the real world ,everyone ( people who have no goats OR aren't even trying to learn about goats and just assume they know everything ) has been saying he's either too fat or too skinny . When in reality he doesn't have fat ...he has a belly full of food .


That's so right! It takes a long time to explain it to them, too.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

mariarose said:


> I completely forget there are people, NORMAL PEOPLE, who take this into consideration!!!


:haha:

For really foraging, a goat needs some 2 hours at least 2 times a day. Plus the time for walking to and from. But for nice treats - ten minutes is of course like a deep grab in the cookie jar!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Lady of the Woods said:


> However if they cant forage for one reason or another, i find that a mix of alfalfa and either timothy or orchard (i prefer orchard. i have a local hay dealer with some great stuff).


Honey, what is orchard hay? _Could_ it possibly be something similar to my beloved "meadow" hay?

And welcome; I think I have not seen you before. 


sunnystatekidz said:


> he has a belly full of food .


Just to complicate things, a goat can easily learn to eat as much as possible in a limited time, and so fill the rumen a bit more than ideal in one go. I think free feed of hay is a good way to prevent problems.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She probably means orchard grass hay. There is a grass seed called orchard grass.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Trollmor said:


> Honey, what is orchard hay? _Could_ it possibly be something similar to my beloved "meadow" hay?
> 
> And welcome; I think I have not seen you before. Just to complicate things, a goat can easily learn to eat as much as possible in a limited time, and so fill the rumen a bit more than ideal in one go. I think free feed of hay is a good way to prevent problems.


Lol.
I am just callin it what the dude at the feed store called it . But anywho , since I posted this thread the goats have got over being picky . They eat their grass hay , alfalfa , forage , etc without complaint ( plus random celery , garlic , carrots ) ..& they've all gained weight in the short while that they've been mine .

The ones that I was mentioning feeding multiple times a day rather than free choice hay , and letting forage for times intravals are babies (10wks and 13wks ) so I guess I just time them Bc of a bloat scare I once had . Now that they are smarter/a bit older things are changing 

Thanks for the welcome


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I was just saying that bloat kills. That doesn't sound like bloat. But if someone is unfamiliar with what a full rumen looks like, they might have the wrong idea.
> 
> But I don't want to be dismissive, because if he IS bloated...


I can get a pic , your totally right , I'm new and still learning and I could be wrong !

I got him at 6wks old ( didn't know any better at the time , I now understand that is WAY to young ) and he had this time where he ate a bunch of food on a hot day and then he feel asleep so hard in my arms and I couldn't wake him up . Idk it was terrifying for me . I was shaking his head and stuff and he wouldn't wake up . And his breathing was super weird once he did wake up . He seemed like he was having a hard time steadying his head too . And then I was massaging his tummy and eventually he burped a bunch of times and was feeling better . But like I said - could be wrong , possibly just paranoid .

Now , a month later , he is like my healthiest little goat , and funnest too .


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

You are welcome to the welcome!  We look forward to your photos.  We may also learn from them.

Or, at least me ...


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