# My aggressive pregnant doe



## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

So last year was her first time kidding. She delivered earlier than I expected so she delivered in the pen with the other pregnant does. By the time I went out there another doe had cleaned the kid and was nursing it. 

I'm trying again this year. I have her alone in a smaller pen...but she's aggressive. It's a kicking battle when I try to touch her udder. She did it last year when I tried to milk her too. She didn't even bother cleaning her kid. She doesn't talk to her kid like my other pregnant does. I tried getting her to nurse last years baby while on the milking stand and it was a kicking mess again. I get the feeling she'll deliver again and simply walk away and pretend nothing happened. Is there anything I can do to try and change things this time around? She's due in two weeks.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Breed?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Pain?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Doe's, don't like their udders touched before they kid.
They think you are going to take milk out of what is meant for her newborns. I find that a lot prior to kidding with just feeling their udders. 
I hope you are not trying to milk her before she kids?
Unless you think she has an issue?

After the Doe kids, they are sore, it hurts, so I milk out enough to make them comfortable and be sure the milk(colostrum) is OK. Then I will try the kids on her. 
She is calmer and will allow me to help. 

If though, a new goat mama, is confused, fights, I will tie her up and one back leg so she doesn't kick me or the kids off. It helps for those cases. 

Talk to her in a calm voice, comfort her. 
If you are feeling irritated, she may feel that from you.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Breed?


Nubian alpine mix. Don't think she's in pain.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

toth boer goats said:


> Doe's, don't like their udders touched before they kid.
> They think you are going to take milk out of what is meant for her newborns. I find that a lot prior to kidding with just feeling their udders.
> I hope you are not trying to milk her before she kids?
> Unless you think she has an issue?
> ...


No not trying to milk, just hoping she can continue eating with me softly touching either the back or the front of the udder which is what I kid would do. I usually do it to all of them to see how tight it is. Hers is still pretty soft. I tried tying her leg last year. She then tried kicking me with her other. At some point shed just sit all the way down. She's been fiesty ever since she was born. She would heat butt the back of my leg at 3 days old. shes the one chewing on my hair and zippers and jumping on me when she thinks I'm holding something away from her.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

They are great to love on, but her size is dangerous to you. Will a water bottle or water pistol put her in a less dominant frame of mind?


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Havent tried one I guess . You mean like just carry one and if she tries to jump spray her?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, that is what mimzidoat means.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, that is what *mimzidoat* means.


Dwarf Dad.

Another, slightly quicker, method is to grab her beard. It will then function like a lead, she will not be so strong in that position. If the "sin" is big, do place a wet human kiss on her "holy" nose! That will very often make her think once more before trying to butt again.

In really bad cases, of course there is a freezer. If nothing seems to help. You certainly do not want her offspring to have that same behaviour!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Yes @mimzidoat squirt her! I have been having issues with my little terrors running over me at gates. I am going to charge my two water fire extinguishers with water and air them up. If I put them at the gates that they usually "stampede", lol, I might be able to stop that behavior.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Sometimes, when they are in labor, if you put some "goo" on your (gloved) hand and let her lick it off, she may calm down and start licking you. Then transfer that to the kid when it is born. 

If none of that works, you may have a bottle kid on your hands! Does she ever let you milk her after she kids? If she is such a problem, maybe consider selling her (with full disclosure ) and get a nicer doe.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

I dont have the time for bottle babies right. I really wanted to keep her. Not only is she an easy keeper, but shes the only daughter I've ever gotten from her 10 yr old mother, the best doe ever. I'm hoping she follows through this year. If not, I cant keep her around much longer if all I get are bottle babies from her.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Goats Rock said:


> Sometimes, when they are in labor, if you put some "goo" on your (gloved) hand and let her lick it off, she may calm down and start licking you. Then transfer that to the kid when it is born.
> 
> If none of that works, you may have a bottle kid on your hands! Does she ever let you milk her after she kids? If she is such a problem, maybe consider selling her (with full disclosure ) and get a nicer doe.


She has but definitely not willingly. 9 times out of ten I have to tie her legs down to the stand pretty much.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Sounds to me as if she simply does not like you. I once had one, and she calmed down with age, but before that ... Ohhh, don't remind me!  (She, too, was the only daughter of a beloved old goat.)


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Well so much for two weeks left. She delivered about 5 hours ago. The last of the placenta came out after I arrived and kids were dry, so I'm thinking it had only been at most an hour . Yes it was twins for the first time. Two does. Only thing one was dead and the other laying on its side. It did look like she cleaned them up and was licking them and calling them. The doe is tiny and weak. Wasn't able to stand all afternoon. For the first time, mama let me milk her willingly. Kid drank 3-4oz within the hour after I arrived and I gave her another 4 a couple of hours ago. Should I bring her inside? Mama is laying by her and nuzzling her. It will be around 50F tonight. Any suggestions on what to do with the doeling?


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Doeling tries to stand a bit and did open her eyes.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Give 1/4 cc cod liver oil and 1/2 cc b complex orally. 
Watch her temp close, weak kids often can't regulate their temperature. 
If she can't stand you might need to bring her in 50 isn't that cold but she will need colostrum sipping about every 2 to 3 hours


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Will mom still take her back if I bring her in? Prefer no bottle baby. What is normal temp on kid?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry, you replied while I was editing. 
Normal temp is 101.5 to 103. Since you will have to monitor colostrum sips through the night, you'll be able to monitor how well she's coping.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Shes jumpy and every so often i get tail wags . She'll take 2-3 oz every 3 hours or so. Still laying. Got a few strands of the tar looking poop. Will she try to stand better with mama? You think it's a good idea to take her out with me in the morning to see mama again while I milk her?


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

The more she is around mom, the more the mom might accept her.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you have other pregnant does? They probably need selenium since one in a set of twins here was born weak/dead.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

No. She is my only one. I had one other but she delivered a stillborn a month before her due date. And the worst part is that the buck I've used for the last 6 years passed away in the middle of breeding season which was why my other two does didn't take. This years batch was going to be his last. The sad thing is that the doeling that's alive looks just like him too. The first. They've all looked like the moms more.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

How is the kid doing? Any luck getting her latched back on to the dam? Is she maintaining her temperature?

I wouldn't describe this doe as aggressive by any means. Sounds like she really doesn't like to have her udder handled though. I hope she is able to raise the kid successfully for you. 

I would still read up a bit and determine if your herd might be selenium deficient.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Shes not suckling on the bottle anymore. Not sure if it's because shes not hungry. Tried not to force it. She was able to stand and hold the position for a bit though. Not sure.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

I'll definitely be making sure that the selenium is available for them. I've never had this issue and would prefer that it doesn't happen again.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

mimzidoat said:


> Shes not suckling on the bottle anymore. Not sure if it's because shes not hungry. Tried not to force it. She was able to stand and hold the position for a bit though. Not sure.


So the kid is back with mama and refusing a bottle? Sounds like good news! Definitely keep close tabs on her temperature and make sure she does not go sub-temp.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Kept last night inside with bottle. She was suckling the bottle fine. But no longer this morning so I'm using a syringe instead now. Took her to mama for a bit then brought her back inside.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

If I help her stand she will just not om her own yet. Peeing and pooping good


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Were you able to get Cod Liver Oil, B-Complex, or Selenium into her?


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

SalteyLove said:


> Were you able to get Cod Liver Oil, B-Complex, or Selenium into her?


Cod liver oil


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Should I just do one of those? Can I do all of them?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

You can (and I would recommend) do all of them if you have them on hand!


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

How much of each


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Ohhhh. I wish you all good luck!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

B complex you can give 0.5 mL orally

What do you have for selenium? If the oral gel give 2mL


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Doeling just had the b complex and selenium. Had 3 oz of milk and is up and holding her weight. Now the doe is super engorged. Theres no color to the milk. thoughts?


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

And doeling now popping yellow. Is that normal?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yellow poop is normal, the doe needs to be milked


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

The kid still looks cold, monitor rectal temperature and be sure milk is 100* F when feedings


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Shes back to drinking 3-4 oz at a time. Theres a bunch of back arching and stretching now while standing up on her own now. Shes now squatting to pee too. If I keep this up with her, is the possibility still there that mama will nurse her? Ive been milking as often as I can. How often should I be milking her right now? Her teats are huge even right after milking.

Also, I'd love to keep her. Usually I dehorn at a few days old, but since shes barely able to stand I dont want to. How long should I wait? Thoughts on that? My friend has the cream and the iron for it.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you know how much the kids weighs? Be sure her tummy is not like rounded out and hard when she finishes a bottle, she looks tiny so just want to make sure you don't overfeed!

It appears that the dam has "bottle teats" - after already using a bottle for 3 days I'm not sure how you will get a small goat kid to get that big teat in its mouth. It's a conformation flaw and you wouldn't really want to retain a doeling that will have the same thing if you intend to breed her.

You mentioned the doe was "engorged" - was she very full/heavy/firm? Or you just mean the teats are ballooned like that? If she is engorged you'll have to milk for more time and really milk her out. 

I don't disbud, hopefully someone else will chime in, I think you can wait until the horn bud breaks the surface?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

SalteyLove said:


> Yellow poop is normal, the doe needs to be milked


And the very cute! kid needs some milk!


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Doeling is tiny. Haven't weighed but I'd guess 2 or 3 lbs. Yes mama being engorged is udder very firm. The teats also get firm. Once I milk the teats just get softer but not much smaller and the udder raises as it gets softer. 
I only feed till the doeling doesn't want anymore. Not round just a bit of a bulge and soft.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If you are feeding the baby until the doeling doesn't want anymore, and it is over the norm of what this baby needs, that is too much. 
It is best to leave them a little hungry. Over feeding will kill the baby, tough love is needed.

Weigh the kid, multiply by 16 to get it in ounces, then multiply that by 10-12% to see how much per day they will need, then divide that into 4 bottles daily.
Weigh again, once a week, adjust amount, as needed.

Feel the belly is it full or empty.
You do not want it overly engorged.


As to mama, milk her out, never allow her to get tight. 
Her kid can't keep up with her milk. 

No color to her milk? Concerning, test for mastitis. If she has it and you are feeding it to the kid, not good. 
Do both sides have that? 
You should milk her, 2 x a day, but if she has mastitis, you will have to treat her and pull the kid. Unless it is only 1 side effected.

Do you have a heat lamp?


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

The milk color was yellow initially then white. I was originally thinking that perhaps she had mastitis based on how her teats got, but heard that one of the signs was blood in the milk. Didn't see that.
Update for today
As of 8.5 hrs ago that was the last time I bottle fed her 3 oz. Shes been very alert today , so about 4 hrs after the feeding I took her to mama and squirted her lips while milking the doe. She got a hold of the teat tip but I don't think she was getting any out. I've gone out several times now and done the same thing with her and she keeps trying. She must be getting something out as I feel a tummy and she's still peeing and pooping. I'm hoping the worse is over. I'm still going to be checking up on her often. Shes so small compared to mama. The doe holds really still to let the doeling nurse . I'm so glad the doe is doing so much better with the mama instincts this go around.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Mastitis does not have to show on the milk. They say a salty taste is also a sign, but then the kid probably does not like it. CMT is showing more. It does not sound as if there is any such problem here, only this very abundant production! Which must be handled by milking out totally at least once a day.

If the kid lives and jumps, you can feel secure that she gets enough. If she starts just lying there, be alert!

Very nice to hear that this doeling is loved by both Mama and Momma!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The yellow is colostrum it's normal and good for the kid. 
Good job milking her out to allow milk flow. Colostrum turns into glue in the udder of it's not removed.
Mastitis takes many forms but none involve pink milk, yellow milk, swollen teat glands, etc without other symptoms.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

I go out there and a lot of times find the doeling sleeping. I wake her up and get her to latch on the doe at least a little bit and she does. Maybe I'm just doing it too much and she wants to rest? Should she be up a lot during the day? Do they nurse at night? This is the first time I have a lamp out there day and night so I'm not sure if it will change things.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No color to her milk was strange to here when you had mentioned it earlier.

How does the kids belly feel? Empty or full?


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

I have the impression that the little one simply does not get enough nutrition inside. What do you others think, is not her head a bit big compared with the rest of the little body? And if she is not jumping around at least some part of the day, something is definitely wrong.

But I do not have a clue what it might be ...


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

I check her tummy by pressing on the sides between her ribs and rear. Feels firm and bit bulgy not hollowed out at all. I've been checking on her about every two hours and I get her up.


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## mimzidoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Here are a few recent pics.


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## camooweal (Jun 27, 2015)

Some say to disbud from 3 to 7 days at the latest but others say so long as the disbudder fits over the horn bud. We do our little ones when they're around ten days old and one we did last kidding, needed to be done again (at about five weeks old) on one side. There's no way our little ones would be disbudded at a mere three days.
She's a lovely little kid.
camooweal


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

I think she is improving.  Already interested in the grass, very good. I hope you have checked the others for parasites; a youngster like this is very tasty to those unwelcome beings!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Glad she is doing well. Very cute doeling!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute, they look good.


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