# Update on Fire -



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Fire is my Nubian doeling that I found hanging by her neck 2 weeks ago that I nursed back to health - well yesterday I went out and took a look at her leg again as I noticed that she is not putting full weight on that leg that she filet open. 

I thought that maybe her leg was out of socket at the shoulder. I started palpating everywhere and it all felt normal. I went down her leg and looked at all the wounds healing and what not - to find that one was not healing - it is infected. 

I had had her on the 5 days of Pen - but I think that I am going to go purchase the LA-200 tonight. She is a May 08 baby - so 6 months old, NOT bred, other then the leg - in good health. I would say that she is about 50 pounds.

Do you think that this is an appropriate choice or should I just put her back on Pen? I would like to get her healthy so that i can breed her in january.

Thanks


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I thought that LA-200 was a better respiratory antibiotic? I'm sure it doesn't matter either way. . . . it does sting though. I've never used it but have it on hand. I don't think we'll ever use it. But, maybe the Pen is not working? Maybe get a more accurate weight on her (we've used measuring tape around the heart girth and converted using Fiasco Farm website). That way you know you're dosing correctly. Just a small thought.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I only did the Pen for 5 days, and it has been 14 days since the accident. So I am not sure if I should try another round of Pen first......

hmmmm...... so confused but want to get it under control. 

Suggestions???


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## heathersboers (Sep 5, 2008)

When the top of my Cutie Pie's head got infected from her scratching- i washed it with peroxide, and dressed with neosporin. I gave her pen. and cleaned it everyday with a first aid liquid with lidocaine to keep it from hurting too bad. I gues I'd try to just keep it clean. can they get immune to pen????


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

yes, anything/anyone can build up a tolerance to any type of medications. I am just so cautious on giving anything if I don't have to - but I NEED to give her something.

Maybe I will try another round of Pen and see how that goes. Thank goodness it is cold here and the flies are not out anymore.... can't handle that!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I would go with the Pen G for at least 7 days and a hefty dose of it.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I was dosing her at 1 cc per 10 pounds previously and dosed her at 60 pounds - should I go higher then that?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Were you doing once or twice a day? 

She prob weighs more than that... but it's hard to tell. I don't have any nubians. :shrug: I know my full grown Nigerian milker weighs at least 80lbs. 

Edit:
Oh and not to be gross, but is there puss coming out of the wound? I'm guessing it's open. If you can i would try putting hot/warm Epsom salt compresses on the wound or soaking it. Also I would try and squirt some watered down iodine right into the wound


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, it is open. I pulled the scab off yesterday to take a look at it. I am going to start flushing it again. I was giving it twice a day SQ.

Most of my Full Grown Nigerians are acually bigger and heavier then she is. She is a petite little thing. She is from very slow growing lines (same with the buck that I am breeding her to).


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Hmm.. that dosage usually works for me. I would try giving it again(at the dosage you were giving it) and if she shows no improvement or gets worse then I would switch to something else. 

I hope that works and that she gets better. looks like we both have some lame goats to care for. :sigh:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Yah, if she doesn't "heal" to where it doesn't bother her - I will get her to a pet home and not breed her. I think it would be to much weight on that leg if I were to breed her and she is not weight bearing on it.

I only gave it for 5 days last time - so that is probobly why it didn't work all the way - probobly should have given it longer because of the wound.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If penG has not worked for 5 days ....I would definitely change to another antibiotic.....

Liquamycin®
LA-200® Oxytetracycline OTC Cattle
Swine Pneumonia, shipping fever complex, foot rot, bacteria enteritis, wound infections, acute metritis, and pinkeye

this is where ...I got the info on LA 200....I am not sure on the dosage though...because I do not use it....but if you prefer using ....some other antibiotic...go for it.... 

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/an ... table.html

With the wound .....I hate to say............you are going to have to scrub.....all of the infection out of the wound......it has to be cleaned all the way down until you actually get red nice healthy tissue .......you have to get all the yuck and smell out or just flushing will not help....you will just be treating the ewww stuff..........then I would flush with diluted iodine ..dab it dry....and then pack with.... NEOSPORIN® Do this daily 2x a day.......until you get ...no more smell of rotten flesh ickies............I am not sure about wrapping it....because ... it traps in the bad stuff..... and brews more germs....if it is on top of the pastern area...and you can keep her in a clean spot ........I would maybe leave it open... to drain better..........
After a few days ...and it doesn't smelling bad any more .....I would maybe check it every other day ...flush it dab it dry..and re-put in NEOSPORIN® 1x a day..for a couple of every other days...if all is going well.....then go every so often...always try to keep it ....as clean as possible......
I know it will be painful for you and the goat .....but it has to be done..... :hug:

Just trying to help with a faster and a full recovery,,,I know I am not a vet ....but this is what I have done in the past for infection.....to fight it and win......

what does everyone else think about it??? I love to hear your input to....thanks  ray:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

That definately sounds like what I was doing - but stopped. I worked in vet med for 8 years - so yes that is correct. 

I think I just didn't follow through as long as I probobly should have. I think the infection just started probobly over the weekend as it really is not "aweful" but it is not good either


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> That definately sounds like what I was doing - but stopped.


yep.....Allison....I know the feeling .......have done a early stop on treatment.... in the past.... but have learned my lesson....now I do follow through every time........ it takes alot of patience ....time....and putting up with a very unhappy animal...........it looks like your going to have to start over again?.......good luck......and I hope and pray she will mend back to a full recovery..... ray:  I feel for you......:hug:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Yah, I think that she will recover - at least I am praying that she does!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

me to Allison....... ray:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

well I scrubbed it out real well tonight untill I really made it bleed. It is actually almost healed and seemed like just the top layer was infected - so that was good. Gave her a huge dose of Pen and will repeat in the morning and continue for minimum 7 days twice a day. She was a little tender on it once I scrub it but really cared more about the food so that is a great sign that the infection has not spread.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Well thats a very good sign. Looks like you caught the infection right away before it did too much. 

Give that little girl a hug for me. I know they get sore from all those pen shots. :hug: 

Looks like you are doing all you can. Does she had proud flesh?

You need a :hug: to.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

surface infection is "good" for her. 

LA 200 is just the best thing for respitory but is a broad spectram antibiotic. Sounds like the Pen G though will work for you situation.

Cant hurt to go get some next time you see it though --- i like having it on hand just in case so I dont have to wait to start treatment. 

Wait 24 hours between Pen and LA200 if you do choose to change the antibiotic. 

LA 200 is 1cc per 20lbs (per lable instructions) does sting! choose Biomycin if you have the choice --- same active ingredient, just doesn't sting and dosage is the same.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice thing is is that she is a bottle baby - and so easy to handle even though she is a Nubian. She is 6 months old this month and still small (only about as tall as my large wethers that are supposed to be pygmy but are huge!!) 

Anyway she is a great girl and doesn't fight me at all.

She is eating and drinking well - cleaned out wound and made it bleed again this morning - looks alot better then it did. I think that it looked so bad on Sunday because it was "scabbed" over so when I opened it it started oozing. Not really smelling at all - just thickeding of the puss. So I think I was good and caught it early.

Will keep you all updated


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sounds alot better.....Allison...you are doing the right thing......she does sound like a sweet heart to put up with being a pin cushion and being scrubbed......ouch...gotta love her....  ..she should be back to normal and healed in no time......


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Well we are still going strong with antibiotics twice a say and scrubbing. I have found that her front "wrist" area seems like it is fused. I pulled the scab off of that and found a small infection under there also.

I fear the worst that she might be lame in that leg the rest of her life IF I can get it to heal. I feel so horrible that I can't do more for her. I talked to hubby and we are not sure what to do. I don't know if I will be able to win this battle or not. There diffinately seems to be some improvement, but she was to be my milker. If she heals and then is lame in that leg - I don't think that it would be right to breed her. She is such a doll though. She is weight bearing on that leg - really really limpy after I scrub it for a while - 

What do you all think of wrapping it after scrubbing it? Right now I haven't been and nothing is really "getting in it" but what do you think? I want it to breath - but not sure


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

goat pens are messy placing with loads of bacteria -- I would wrap it and then when you can open it up and let it have some air, say like when you are doing barn chores, then wrap it back up again.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I had a horse with a nasty cut on her leg. I had to dress it because it was fly season. I put a petrolatum dressing infused with iodine on it. That seemed to keep the infection away. This is a link to something like what I used: http://mednet-store.stores.yahoo.net/kenxerpetgau.html
I would use that when it stops draining. While it is draining I would use some sort of wet to dry bandage to pull off the dead/dying tissue from infection.

Or you could try something like neosporin.

If she was a person I would say a wound-vac... but they don't do those on animals lol.

As for the lameness... if the ankle does fuse but isn't painful then I would breed her. It really depends on how much pain she is in when it heals. Sometimes these things take a long time to heal. I ray: that it does heal. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Allison ....are you still getting a bad odor of infection ? when you are cleaning it?

don't give up sweety.....it does take time to heal...especially if infection took over a bit.....
Just keep up on it......you should eventually win.......as for wrapping it ...you can.....just make sure it isn't to tight.....and at least change it 2x a day minimum.....if it seems to be doing worse that way ...... leave the bandage off......but be sure to keep the stall very ...very clean......if you do....

you say you are seeing improvement....is some of it not smelly? If so.....I wouldn't scrub those spots so healing can proceed....(the good spots) see how it goes for a day.... then you know if it has no infection it that area.........and you can leave those area's alone.....

she will be limpy after treatments it does hurt....  

Also don't give up on breeding her yet....wait and see how she is....when healed.....keep your head up and be strong...try to have faith.......

I am praying for you and fire ...... ray:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks all - it actually never really smelled (thankfully!) It was more of a surface infection. But thankfully it is just barely above freezing here at night and no more then 50 degrees in the mid of day! So that has helped alot!

Thank you all for your support. It is so hard, as I am used to being on the "vet" side of things and not with my own! I mean I have done surgery to many times on my own animals and recovered them - but they were all "typical" surgeries - or ones that I fixed and knew what to expect. I just feel out of my league here as I am so in the learning process of goaties! Things are different and they are not only pets - but breeders and "purpose" animals. Without their "purpose" I can not keep them.

I have to go our of town AGAIN this weekend - against my wishes - so I will be gone for 48 hours. I know that the barn nanny will not be able to keep up with her cleaning and injections - so we will see how she is when I get home on Sunday late afternoon. (the metal feeder will NOT be with the goaties!!!) 

Does anyone have an EASY to build INEXPENSIVE plan or picture of hay feeders that I can build for inside the barn for them?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

there are hay feeder ideas in the barnyard bananza area I do believe


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Allison, When we took in a rescue horse, he had a cut on his leg. The vet had to cut the proud flesh off and it was really bad. But to prevent infection what she told me to do was put medication on it and keep it wrapped. I did change the wrap every day or every other day. I am sure that if you wrap it and put some Noesporn(sp) or something on it she will be fine until you get back. 
Good thing you are very observant with you goats. great job. :clap:


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Allison, I have tried MANY different feeders, but the ones I built when we moved here are BY FAR the best ones, with very little waste, and the goats are so much happier. They are also very inexpensive. I'll try to snap a photo for you today.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Great - Thanks All!


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Got the pics.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Chelsey can you add those pictures to a thread in the barnyard bananza section for reference? those are some nice feeders


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks! And I will do that :thumb:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> It is so hard, as I am used to being on the "vet" side of things and not with my own!


Allison.....you are very welcome..I know where your coming from....your confidence is not there ...but you know you have the talent... :thumb:

No foul odor ...that is good.....when you clean off the leg ...do you rinse all the stuff off of it .....before scrubbing.? I am wondering ... if it may be ...the neosporin you are seeing? it can appear to look like puss..? If you rinse it off with a garden hose first real good ... what are you seeing..? 
when you leave for a 48 hours.... I guess ....you can see if the infection is under control.....


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Love your setup Chelsey!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

would you reccommend a Neosporin, bactracin, or the horse cream antibiotic that is yellow (cant remember the name). 

In the clinics we said never to use the neosporin because it had steroids in it......... I have the horse cream at home - but I can definately stop and get the other. Thanks!!!!!!!!!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Nitrofurazone? I wouldn't use it. It's been shown to cause cancer in mice. 

I would go for the neosporin or your generic triple antibiotic ointment. :wink:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

How is she doing?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

We got home late Sunday night and it was "crusted" over. I opened it up a little and there was infection in there - but not as bad. Still no smell. It is healing - just really really slow.

I think that I am going to start wrapping it after cleaning but when it is off letting her out of the pen to eat. I was giving her the injection, cleaning it and then she hides under the feeder and eats on her front "knees" so I think she is getting "crap" in it again right after cleaning - so that is not helping much.

I will keep you all in the loop and will try to take pics this weekend.

thanks for checking in!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

At least she is getting better, even if it is slow. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Allison...it is a slow process but...she will eventually heal...just keep on it...
I am so glad it is healing...if you want to wrap it ...that is good... as long as you don't do it 
to tight.....I would change it twice a day....until you think it is good enough to go once a day...
good luck with her...yes........ we'd love to see pics...  :leap:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I dislike slow progress.........but at least it is progress.


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## lesserweevil (Oct 5, 2007)

have you tried a poultice of any sort?

LW


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

She is actually 90% healed!!! :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: 

Fire is running and playing and not favoring that leg at all. Although she lost mobility in the joint to the hoof from the injury and has some scaring - she is wonderful!!

She was not ment to be a show goat - only for milk - so truely, I am not to worried!!!

Thanks for everyones help!!! :grouphug:


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## Crissa (Oct 7, 2007)

That's great news! :stars:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

thanks for the update ...Allison...Sounding really good ....90% is a high percentage
and she will be totally healed in no time......keep up the good work....
I am happy for you...  :hug: :thumbup: :wahoo:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks - just a little bit more of scabbing to come off and then we are done!! I took the scab off of the 2 bad ones about a week ago - almost completely closed (a pencil tip left) and so a little scaring - but that is it :dance:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

that's great Allison....sounds like 95% healed to me..... :leap: :hug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thats great news Allison! Of course as she gets older you can expect a bit of arthritis, but nothing that can't be helped. You did a great job with getting her healed :hug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I missed the update on this. I am sooo glad she is doing better. Great news. :dance:


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