# How to stimulate appetite



## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

My doe (see Ketosis thread) is still alive, drinking, and sometimes getting up on her own. But she won't eat. She's getting B Complex twice a day.

Is there anything else I can give her to stimulate her appetite?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

This may sound crazy, but would caffiene help? (like from coffee)?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Did you ever get any pelleted feed? Maybe if you dissolve some in water and put it into her mouth with a turkey baster it will make her realize she wants to eat. I had to do this with a really sick doe. The turkey baster works much better than anything else. Just put some feed into a cup and add water. It should turn mushy, and you can suck it up with the baster and drizzle it into her mouth like a shake. I sure hope she gets better for you.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Is her rumen functioning? If not, that may be why she does not want to eat

Coffee mixed with molasses, honey or karo might stimulate her appetite. You can also give her flat dark beer.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I personally would try flat beer and a rumen bolus (the probiotic and yeast ones). The boluses really helped my doe who stopped eating so much that she was down to 95lbs when she used to be a little over 200lbs. She was back up to 165 in 3 months on no extra feed, just hay.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

As of last night her rumen was still working a little. I've never heard of a rumen bolus. Gonna try the coffee/molasses drench. Unfortunately I don't have a turkey baster.

I'll get one tomorrow if she's still around, and will try to get some leaf spinach too.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Dark flat beer would really help. PBS Animal Health has the rumen boluses.


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## windswept (Oct 26, 2015)

billmac said:


> My doe (see Ketosis thread) is still alive, drinking, and sometimes getting up on her own. But she won't eat. She's getting B Complex twice a day.
> 
> Is there anything else I can give her to stimulate her appetite?


My "doe in distress" had gotten to the point where she could hardly eat any hay. I was desperate to entice her to eat and found she would inhale a cup of mandarin oranges. I don't know why, maybe she needed the vitamin C. As of Dec. 27th she has been holding her own. I also supplemented with Vitamin B complex but I gave 5cc's every 6 hrs. for 2 days then, every 12 hrs. for 2 days and tapered her off that way. She is now 100% better. I hope she gets better and will be recovering soon. Best Wishes Louise :hugs:


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I can try the mandarin oranges. We've put just about every food we have in the house in front of her, with little result. Occasionally she'll take a nibble, but that's it. We're going to get some spinach leaves today.

The rumen bolus recommended has yeast and probiotics. I have yogurt and probios powder already. Can I use baker's yeast or is there some kind of special vet-approved yeast? I could make a drench.


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## Dorioakes (Nov 13, 2013)

Molasses water will keep her calories up. A doe in ketosis should have molasses water available all the time. 
Also use Magic


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is not the same thing. You need the bolus. The other option is the dark beer.


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## Dorioakes (Nov 13, 2013)

MAGIC RECIPE
1 part corn oil
1 part molasses
2 parts Karo syrup
It is helpful to warm it just a bit.

To treat pregnancy toxemia we use Revive during the day and 8 ounces of Magic for a large doe, (a little less for a small one) in the evening to hold them through the night.


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## Dorioakes (Nov 13, 2013)

Also get the Vitamin B Paste at the feed store that has probiotics in it. She needs a dose of that once a day


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.

Also banamine can be used to stimulate appetite. Have free choice hay in front of her at all times. Make her get up more often and walk, don't allow her to lay around too long.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Keep in mind that too much molasses and karo will actually do more harm than good. Too much sugar will kill off her flora, causing rumen shut down, and can cause her to develop polio. 
I would replace the molasses with dextrose to give her energy.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Does Dextrose have the nutritional punch of molasses? I have a bottle of 50% Dextrose


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I shoved a piece of apple in her mouth, and she took like two minutes to get it down. She won't seem to eat with her side teeth. Even though the vet had looked in her mouth, I risked my fingers and felt inside her mouth with my lightly gloved hands. Nothing seemed amiss and she bit down hard on my fingers.

I got some probios paste and started her on that and drenched her with some pellet feed gruel and turkey baster.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Good!! I hope she begins to feel better soon!


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I just can't figure out what's causing her chewing problem. She's already fading and it's only going to get worse with just drenches.


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## windswept (Oct 26, 2015)

Try to offer her those small orange segments. They are already in a light syrup and take nothing to chew. My doe had the same problem. She seemed as if she couldn't chew, maybe just too weak. She had no problem sucking down the little oranges. It's worth a shot.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I did try the mandarin oranges but she wouldn't even look at them. I'll try again and see if I can shove them between her lips, but they're a bit more squishy than apples.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Did you ever try the dark beer? I haven't had any experience with it, but it has helped lots of people on here. You said she bit down on your finger, so do you think that she can move her mouth okay?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I didn't try the beer yet. Yes, it seems her mouth is OK. I was able to stuff several wads of kale into her mouth and if you don't let her spit them out, she'll chew them and swallow.

It's weird. She acts like she's just looking for that one thing she will eat. She noses lots of things with interest, only to reject them. She wants something, but we can't find the magic things she wants.

I've never done this, and frankly I'm not keen on trying it, but would pulling the cud from one of my other goats do anything for her? If so, how does one go about it?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Try some loose salt and minerals and see if she is craving that. 

If you see a big wad of chew in the cheek of another goat. With a rubber glove and be careful with the teeth, go into the cheek area and grab some cud, then give it to her.

Still give her probiotics and fortified vit B complex. And cud from another, if you can get it.


You will have to continue to drench her with nutrition, soaked alfalfa pellets are good.

Anything wrong with her jaw area? It is strange if the vet seen nothing but yet, she has an issue somewhere there.

Do you think she is starting polio. listeria?


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## Darlaj (Dec 10, 2013)

Have u tryed fresh black berry leaves? My ketonic doe would only eat those for a day or two.. Keep up the good work I know it's hard. I would get the beer in her. It does help a lot and stealing cud works good to. It always makes me gag so def use glove that smell is harder to get off than buck!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Rumen-Yeast-Caps/464-42.html

That is the rumen bolus that works well. Lacie and I have both seen incredible recovery from using it. So either order these boluses or get dark beer into her. I bet her problem is that her rumen is messed up.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I will get a beer today. How long does it take for it to get flat enough after opening?

I reached in and felt her teeth and she was able to bite down hard on my gloved fingers. I don't think there's a structural problem.

I'm at the tip top of NY State, so there's no fresh leaves to be had other than greens from the grocery store.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

How big are the yeast caps? Could they be dissolved into a drench? I'm afraid to try using a balling gun on her.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I guess I will go with the beer and the probios and keep drenching her. I don't think she has enough time to wait for the yeast caps.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I open the caps and put the powder in water and drench her.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I ordered the caps and will try the beer in the meantime.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

How much beer? My drencher is 30ml, and I'll be lucky to get that much in her. Is that enough?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Just one more thought. Would milk of magnesia help, or would it counteract what I'm trying to do? She hasn't had a bowel movement in days, but of course she hasn't really eaten anything either.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

When mine won't eat and are sick, I warm up dextrose (or glucose) and then inject it in large "bubbles" sub Q. This can help sustain their energy a bit until they decide to eat.

Could she have an upset gut? Maybe it hurts or makes her uncomfortable to eat?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

My vet said dextrose is one thing you shouldn't inject SQ because it is the perfect bacterial medium.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm not criticizing. I'm only saying because I thought of doing the same thing.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

As long as her swallow is intact, the dextrose can be given by mouth. It requires little digestion and hits the bloodstream within minutes after ingestion. In a human, as soon as dextrose hits the tongue, it begins entering the bloodstream. I also wouldn't give it SQ. Either IV or through digestion.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

6 ounces of beer


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Well, I got 6 oz of beer into her. We'll see what happens. She nosed some hay, but no eating.

I can tell you grabbing another goat's cud is easier said than done. I reached my finger in as far as I could and only came out with a smelly smear. Tried on 3 different goats with similar results.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

So do I repeat the beer tomorrow?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

See how she is tomorrow.


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## marge (Feb 16, 2012)

If she can take it give her a tums daily too.
Any prolly glycol?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Gave her 30ml milk of magnesia, 6 oz of beer, 60ml ringers, some grain gruel, and Vit b last night. And probios but she spit most of that out.

This morning she was in the same spot, hadn't drunk anything. I gave her 20ml of milk of magnesia, 30ml dextrose, 30ml beer, 60ml ringers, and hauled her to her feet. Forced a little kale into her mouth and a piece of apple. She got it down a little better than normal.

A few minutes later she took some apple, kale, and spinach from my hand voluntarily and chomped it down. When I let her back into her pen she started eating hay. She's out of practice but much better than she's been for almost a week. And she did pass some mucus.

Cautiously optimistic.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I am so happy to hear that!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't give anymore milk of magnesia. Glad she is doing a little better.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks. She did lay back down but my wife will get her up at lunchtime if she doesn't get up on her own. Still don't think she drank anything but I figure if she'll eat, she'll drink. She still urinates every time she gets up.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sounds good, happy to hear that.

If you are allowing her to drink from a bucket, mark the level it is at, so you will know if she drank or not. 
Drench her if she isn't. Even if a goat eats doesn't always mean they will drink. Wintertime they seem to drink less.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Got her up at lunchtime and she ate a few pieces of kale and nibbled a little hay, but not much. Perhaps I'm expecting too much after a week of only drenches and laying around.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I just had a thought, her difficulty chewing and other issues happens rather fast right? Maybe she had a small stroke?
Hoping she pulls through! I can't think of anything else you could be doing, you're treating for many different problems, at this point I don't think there is anything else you could be doing for her. I'll keep my fingers crossed!


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## sweet_as_honey (Jan 5, 2016)

Maybe try AAS drench mix (vet calls it "green stuff") in yogurt? Our vet had us dose using 2 tablespoons (or 1 ounce) per 100 pound. It doesn't taste very good to them but helps if you can get it in them.

We had something similar happen with Abby, one of our does. I would put some "green stuff" her mouth (didn't have a drenching tool) and carefully hold her mouth shut so she couldn't spit it out. We were able to get her to eat small amounts of honeysuckle leaves/vines & sugar gum leaves. It was fortunate for us it was fall & have both growing on the property. 

I hope your goat is doing better.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Karen: Why no more milk of magnesia?

I am disappointed that she hadn't shown improvement at lunchtime. After this morning I thought she would slowly pick up.

What do you think I should continue to do in terms of treatment? I still have beer, and the yeast caps should come tomorrow. I quit the molasses/karo and went to 50% dextrose for drenching. I still have some greens. I don't mind continue the myriad of things I've been trying for days, but I don't want to mess up the improvement, slight as it was.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Latest update:

Drenched her with beer and dextrose, gave her B complex and SQ ringers again tonight. Got her up, and forced some kale and spinach into her, and then she proceeded to eat a lot of hay (relatively speaking). She munched off and hour or more, and was still at it when I left the barn. Still cautiously optimistic. I wish I would see her drink.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It gets to a point where you need to stop treating and just get the rumen healthy. Milk of magnesia is great for binding toxins and getting them out of the rumen but you don't do it for long.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

billmac said:


> My doe (see Ketosis thread) is still alive, drinking, and sometimes getting up on her own. But she won't eat. She's getting B Complex twice a day.
> 
> Is there anything else I can give her to stimulate her appetite?


I can't find the Ketosis thread. Can someone link it please?

So she's pregnant? How far from kidding is she?


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If I remember correctly she kidded about four weeks ago.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Latest latest update:

I had to leave home shortly after evening chores. I poked my head in and she was chewing her cud. First time I've seen it since this whole thing started over a week ago. When I got home, I looked in again. She was lying down, but was again chewing her cud. It still looks like she hasn't really had anything to drink.

I got her up at bedtime and gave her a few more oz of beer (I've only been giving 2 oz at a time since the first time, when I gave 6oz). She walked around and nibbled a little hay, but wasn't really hungry. She ate a lot at suppertime so maybe that was sufficient. She's still urinating but I haven't seen her drink. I'll breathe a big sigh of relief if I see her water dish down a little in the morning.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

When I went out this morning it looked like she had drunk a tiny bit of water, but not much. Got her up pretty easily and she's been munching hay ever since. No shots or drenches this morning. Hoping her body is going to start doing its own work of recovery and I don't want to stress her any more than necessary.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good. When you get boluses, still give one. I would do once 2 days in a row.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Will do.

Should I be less concerned about her drinking? I know drinking while not eating makes sense, but it doesn't make sense that she would eat and not drink. I don't want to keep poking her to put ringers under her skin.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would watch her. My goats aren't even drinking half the amount of water they were drinking in the warmer months. So this is kind of a bad time of year for them drinking lots of water. At least my goats are that way.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Just jotted down the timeline. Since we first noticed her going off feed, she went 9 days without eating, other than the occasional nibble at something and what we drenched her with.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you have done a wonderful job with her!!....for water..try bringing in warm water with a splash of apple cider vinegar and a dash of molasses...might temp her


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks. I don't want to get overconfident, but she has definitely improved.

How long does it take a goat to dry up? Her kids are still in with her, but she won't let them nurse. I haven't tried taking anything out of her. Do you think she'll change her mind if she continues to improve?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would keep an eye on the udder, you dont want it to be tight. It depends on how milky she is as to how long it will take to dry her up. as for her taking the kids in..i doubt it..but there is always that slim chance...I learned with goats, never say never lol


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

The udder has definitely gone slack.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

In case anyone is still interested:
Getting up and down on her own now, easily.
Eating hay like crazy.
Saw her drink quite a bit of water.
It appears that she has passed some diarrhea, courtesy of the milk of magnesia I expect. Tonight she passed stool that looked like it came out of a dog, so it's firming up.
Ate two big mouthfuls of grain.
Wolfing kale and spinach down.

Kids are still in with her, but she won't let them nurse. I expect she knows she's not strong enough yet.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is great. My bet is on the beer. I had a doe who just wasn't recovering and it was the boluses that tipped her over the edge to recovery. Once the treatment is done, getting that rumen back to normal is critical.


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## CrazyDogLady (Aug 9, 2014)

Yay! Sounds like she's on the mend.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

One last update, hopefully.

I was looking for one more thing, and that was regular droppings, and she passed those this morning. She's eating hay and greens like a starving wolf and is showing some interest in grain, although we'll be careful with that unless she decides to let her kids nurse again. Part of me wishes she would because the one kid simply will not take the bottle. At about 5 weeks he's almost 4 lbs lighter than his brother.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats wonderful news!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So good to hear, very good work.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Just one more, hopefully.

This weekend she started nursing her kids again, although we are still supplementing with the bottle. I'm afraid we've spoiled her with fresh produce (kale, spinach, carrots) because now she's always looking for it.

The nursing has me a little on edge. It would be a tremendous convenience for us if we could cut out the bottle feeding, and better for at least one of her kids who still hasn't taken to the bottle very well. Although she was very interested in grain once she got her appetite back, she's less interested now. If indeed she had ketosis at the beginning of this who episode, I don't want to throw her into it again. Although her udder is half of what it was then.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

The more the kids are on her and she is eating good, it will increase her milk production. But also supplement if needed as well. 

How does her milk look is is normal, no blood strings, clots, abnormal thickness, hot, hard lumpy ect? It is just something to check in case of mastitis.

What is her temp? If she isn't eating properly something is off. If her temp is normal her rumen may be off and you need to stop graining her until she is better. Give probiotics and fortified vit B complex shots for 4 days, 1 x a day. If she has a high fever, treat for that with antibiotics. Is there any bad odor from her vulva?


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Pam: She is eating well other than an ambivalence toward grain. I haven't checked her milk in a few days. Her temp is fine and there are no bad smells. I think she's just slowly gaining her strength from her long illness. I did give her a rumen bolus yesterday.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Follow the directions on the bolus. I think they say up to 3 days in a row.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

Karen,
The bolus is huge and is for cattle. Any chance of doing her harm?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

No. I open it up and put the powder in water and drench it. I haven't tried getting the actual pill down them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Prayers sent for her.


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## billmac (Sep 8, 2008)

She's like a starving wolf, just not for grain.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is ok. At least she is eating. She will get there.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, hay is good for her rumen anyway and the grain part, maybe she doesn't like the taste anymore. 
Trying other grains or giving it a break may help.


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