# Grades of Hay?



## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Another newbie question, I wanted to get a couple of 3 string bales of hay for the winter (I have one nice green orchard grass already)-- what do they mean by second cutting alfalfa hay?
I did Google the subject and read up alittle on alfalfa (high calcium levels, you want less stem and more leaf etc)...
I will be feeding 2 probably 3 does and 1 buckling (so 3 minis, the buck is tiny and only 3 weeks old right now so he wont be grazing for a while, 1 standard size doe -- does' ages almost 5 months now...)
and yes they are getting goat chow (currently Purina but I found something called Farmers goat ration at a local feed store that looks nice and fresh and is basically the same)....

Its still sunny and 70s bright and clear, bad weather probably not til Nov (one year it didnt snow til Feb the next year was a 120 record for Rain starting in like Sept.... doesnt really get in the single digits, low 20's maybe is more like it)....
SO back to Hay? What for the winter and what grades are good for young and very young goatlings....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Generally I always buy 2nd cutting. Mixing the alfalfa and grass hay is fine.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Oh and they will get grain daily (child likes to feed them and we are trying to tame them) they actually jump the pen and browse for a couple hours daily and then come in at night for their sweet feed... (they escape into a 1.5 acre pasture)....


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

OK thanx Karen you were posting while I was posting I do see alot of 2nd cutting Alfalfa... do they run out in winter or do I have to buy it all soonish (only so much will fit into my little commuter car)...


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

as long as it is 2nd cutting they will eat it. just keep it under cover and off the ground.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

2nd cutting means that particular hay field the bales came from was cut for the 2nd time this year. 2nd is usually fine. I prefer 3rd or 4th cutting alfalfa. You want to stock up on your hay now because it's usually slim pickings during winter through early spring.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Make sure you get as much as you can keep dry... Goats, even minis go through quite a bit of hay.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I have to buy my hay for the year. The farmers sell out as quickly as possible and send the rest south. They don't keep any in stock.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

OK will do I will get a couple bales this week....


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## ms_sl_lee (Feb 8, 2013)

I've been giving my goats peanut hay instead of the T&A. They love it. Question: Is it as good, better or worse than T&A? It is messy, but they love it.

By the way, we're the south they ship it to And we have to pay around $15 a square bale for it.


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Well Ms sl lee heres its $15- 20 ( for really nice green horse quality stuff) for a little 3 string bale...(is that the same as a square bale)...
I am back just now and will go get 2 more bales of the 20 dollar stuff tommorrow (its in town) and look at the far away cheap store next week....(what they have in stock that might be suitable)...


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## ms_sl_lee (Feb 8, 2013)

I think it is horse grade T&A but it is only 2 strings not three. We can't grow it here in Florida. Peanut hay runs about the same. Coastal is around $11. I get they for our Llama, too much calcium can cause problems for her.


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## WalshKidsGoats (Nov 27, 2012)

My summer job is cutting hay so I may be able to help. 
Alfalfa:
In 1st cutting the plants are mostly stem without a lot of leaves. This is because the hay is shooting up quickly after being dormant for the winter. Since most of the nutrients are in the leaves this cutting is the least nutritious. 
2nd cutting has more leaves on it than 1st cutting making it more nutritious.
3rd cutting is leafier than 2nd because the plants aren't growing up as fast so there is less stem. This usually happens because of the heat. 2nd and 3rd are usually pretty similar around here.
4th cutting is the best nutrients wise. This hay is wonderful for does in milk! The weather is usually much cooler so the plants produce a lot more leaves than they do stem. Usually around here 4th cutting hay is hard to find because farmers have a hard time getting it put up in good condition because of the weather.
I usually feed my goats 3rd cutting alfalfa and if I can get any 4th they LOVE that. I'm lucky because I get all the broken bales that are otherwise fine except for one broken string. Otherwise 4th cutting alfalfa is pretty pricey around here!


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

WalshKidsGoats said:


> My summer job is cutting hay so I may be able to help.
> Alfalfa:
> In 1st cutting the plants are mostly stem without a lot of leaves. This is because the hay is shooting up quickly after being dormant for the winter. Since most of the nutrients are in the leaves this cutting is the least nutritious.
> 2nd cutting has more leaves on it than 1st cutting making it more nutritious.
> ...


Thankyou very much! That is very helpful- today I acquired 2 more bales of the local shop's #1 alfalfa ( I dont know what cutting it was but it was the most expensive). I will call them tommorrow. It is a nice green and aromatic (in a good way)... This should hold them thru Dec I think ( I think I may be in trouble, they hold out for the sweet feed and barely eat anything else)....
Also the Feedstore said not to worry they had plenty of hay and would not be running out (they do have a good rep around here)....


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

One more hay query... I noticed that for some reason the orchard grass hay is consistently priced higher than our alfalfa (its 20 or 21 a bale and the alfalfa you can get from 15/16 a bale).... the orchard grass is nice and leafy very low stem, much easier to feed... but what I notice is that with the alfalfa even if its mostly stem, they still go nuts for it and like the stemmy alfalfa over the beautiful tea leaf green orchard grass hay bales... What gives? which is better to feed...?....


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Your goats just like the alfalfa better. I've seen some herds that prefer grass hay and others prefer alfalfa and then some don't care. It just kind of varies from herd to herd is what i've seen, but most goats love alfalfa and in my opinion, it's the best hay you can give them.

Prices vary depending on location and availability, just because it is priced higher, doesn't necessarily mean it's the better hay. Also, each farm and each cutting...the hay will differ. Some farmers know what they're doing produce high quality hay and others produce some real poor quality hay all the time. Some cuttings turn out perfect, some get rained on, etc. It just depends. 

Most feed stores only sell premium to supreme quality hay and charge more than what you could get if for directly from a farmer.


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

CAjerseychick said:


> One more hay query... I noticed that for some reason the orchard grass hay is consistently priced higher than our alfalfa (its 20 or 21 a bale and the alfalfa you can get from 15/16 a bale).... the orchard grass is nice and leafy very low stem, much easier to feed... but what I notice is that with the alfalfa even if its mostly stem, they still go nuts for it and like the stemmy alfalfa over the beautiful tea leaf green orchard grass hay bales... What gives? which is better to feed...?....


I don't believe a three-string bale and a square bale are not the same thing. I think that a square bale has 2 strings, but then this all could be as opposed to a round bale so... I know CA bales are different than the rest of the country.

In terms of why Orchard grass is so expensive = because you are in horse country. It is used to feed horses and it is horse quality so it is more expensive. All of your does will appreciate the alfalfa, especially if you have a pasture for them as well. Your young buck can safely eat the alfalfa for many months while he is still growing. Once he reaches maturity, you will want to cut back so he doesn't get too much calcium.

In terms of buying all the hay you need for winter - I guess if you can buy it and store it that is ideal. With a herd of 35 goats, I would never be able to store enough hay for winter where I live so we have to buy it throughout the winter. The price goes up, but I have never been to a feed store who told me "Sorry we ran out of hay". I don't know if that helps your budgeting but I just thought I would throw out my experience.

Are you going to the goat education day in Red Bluff in two weeks?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Unless the bale is round it is called square, regardless of being 2 or 3 string.
In reality the square bales are actually rectangle.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Cadence said:


> I know CA bales are different than the rest of the country.
> 
> 
> > How so?


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

KW Farms said:


> Your goats just like the alfalfa better. I've seen some herds that prefer grass hay and others prefer alfalfa and then some don't care. It just kind of varies from herd to herd is what i've seen, but most goats love alfalfa and in my opinion, it's the best hay you can give them.
> 
> Prices vary depending on location and availability, just because it is priced higher, doesn't necessarily mean it's the better hay. Also, each farm and each cutting...the hay will differ. Some farmers know what they're doing produce high quality hay and others produce some real poor quality hay all the time. Some cuttings turn out perfect, some get rained on, etc. It just depends.
> 
> Most feed stores only sell premium to supreme quality hay and charge more than what you could get if for directly from a farmer.


Thanks - that does set my mind at ease, I will buy the cheaper alfalfa from now as the goats like it better anyway (and yes the feedstores that I go to are the ones reccomended by our goat vet, they have good product)....
We fixed our electric netting (dog chewed it up before we figured out the Electric part)and so goats will be getting back out to pasture now....So hopefully... less hay....


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Cadence said:


> I don't believe a three-string bale and a square bale are not the same thing. I think that a square bale has 2 strings, but then this all could be as opposed to a round bale so... I know CA bales are different than the rest of the country.
> 
> In terms of why Orchard grass is so expensive = because you are in horse country. It is used to feed horses and it is horse quality so it is more expensive. All of your does will appreciate the alfalfa, especially if you have a pasture for them as well. Your young buck can safely eat the alfalfa for many months while he is still growing. Once he reaches maturity, you will want to cut back so he doesn't get too much calcium.
> 
> ...


I keep forgetting about the dang... horse people.... Yes horse stuff does drive the pricing for things up....
The feedstore did say they dont run outa hay (I have decided to keep 4 on standby in my garage at all times, I think I am going thru a 3/4 bale a month for 5 soon to be 6 goats- is that alot?)... and that price should increase mybe $2 a bale which isnt too bad, I will buy a couple more soonish and then figure I should have enough thru Februaury/March even...
Still figuring out how to reduce waste.... I have 4in agwire feeder set up onto of a dog crate over a low bin so the goats have to pull out the hay from between the wire and eat it and the bin catches the duff etc...
The main drawback with the first alfalfa hay I got is its stem and then crumbly dry leaf which sorta drops out onto the ground, more easily wasted...
I buy 3 string bales but have noticed some bales are a little shorter than others depending on where you buy them at (still shopping around)....

I dont think I will attend the Goat ed day (I work most Saturdays) and I want to have more questions / knowledge base behind me to really utilize an event like that.... I wonder if my local Ag extension office has a Goat class to offer(?) or some local contact....
Is it a yearly event? Next year, after I go thru kidding, get a buck, etc....thats more likely... Are you going?


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

KW Farms said:


> Cadence said:
> 
> 
> > I know CA bales are different than the rest of the country.
> ...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Each farmer uses a different baler so it's not like every farmer in the state produces the same type of bale. I know not every farmer in CA is doing either 3 twine small bales or big bales there. Maybe it just happens to be that the majority of farmers in your area are using small balers and doing 3 twine bales. But it just varies from farmer to farmer, what their preference is, what kind of hay they're growing, and what they're growing their hay for. Are they selling to individual small buyers, are they selling to cattle dairies, etc.

Here are some CA hay listings...as you can see the bales vary: http://www.hayexchange.com/ca.php :thumb:


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

CAjerseychick said:


> I keep forgetting about the dang... horse people.... Yes horse stuff does drive the pricing for things up....
> The feedstore did say they dont run outa hay (I have decided to keep 4 on standby in my garage at all times, I think I am going thru a 3/4 bale a month for 5 soon to be 6 goats- is that alot?)... and that price should increase mybe $2 a bale which isnt too bad, I will buy a couple more soonish and then figure I should have enough thru Februaury/March even...
> Still figuring out how to reduce waste.... I have 4in agwire feeder set up onto of a dog crate over a low bin so the goats have to pull out the hay from between the wire and eat it and the bin catches the duff etc...
> The main drawback with the first alfalfa hay I got is its stem and then crumbly dry leaf which sorta drops out onto the ground, more easily wasted...
> ...


It has been so long since I have had 5 goats ;-) and you have minis right? I woudn't be the best one to say how much to feed a month. I go through about a bale a day but that is a much bigger herd/show string and on production testing.

I will be at Goat education day - I love seeing everyone and last year when we have a fence collapse and had to stay home and repair I missed interacting with goat people. 
If you can go this year I would highly encourage it. They have some great seminars and even if you only absorb 1/3 of the information this year, you can get another 1/3 next year. Several vets talking about kidding and what to do if you have problems can also head off.
If you can't go this year, there is a Goat Education day at UC Davis on Feb 1 this year as well. It doesn't have quite as much hands-on work, but it is pretty interesting and you still get to talk to lots of goat people


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## CAjerseychick (Sep 21, 2013)

Cadence said:


> It has been so long since I have had 5 goats ;-) and you have minis right? I woudn't be the best one to say how much to feed a month. I go through about a bale a day but that is a much bigger herd/show string and on production testing.
> 
> I will be at Goat education day - I love seeing everyone and last year when we have a fence collapse and had to stay home and repair I missed interacting with goat people.
> If you can go this year I would highly encourage it. They have some great seminars and even if you only absorb 1/3 of the information this year, you can get another 1/3 next year. Several vets talking about kidding and what to do if you have problems can also head off.
> If you can't go this year, there is a Goat Education day at UC Davis on Feb 1 this year as well. It doesn't have quite as much hands-on work, but it is pretty interesting and you still get to talk to lots of goat people


Oh Cadence you make me feel guilty.... I do have to be at work at 4pm this year (its a 3 hours drive) so I cannot make it this year.... do me a favor and when you find out next years' date let me know, as long as I get 2 months notice.... I can usu get the dates off work to attend...

My herd is 3 standard size goats (one doe is in milk) and 3 minis... (the last mini is arriving in November)>..


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