# Toxemia experience?



## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm new to goats as of a year ago, this will be my first batch of kids. I have raised all sorts of other animals, but goats seem to be a unique animal! 

Anyway...we have a Boer doe (Babs) that is currently 142 days pregnant. We noticed her laying down more about 1-2 weeks ago and groaning with breathign. At the time we chalked it up to her being the biggest of the 3 does that we had pregnant and she sounded like she was talking to her babies. In the last 3-4 days she has barely gotten up, though every time we check on her she is in a different position/place; hasn't touched her grain mix, and has barely drank water, and her breathing was up to 80/min. 

Once we realized she wasn't just going into labor we started doing a lot of fast reading....we started 2 days ago drenching her with "magic" (molases, corn oil, corn syrup) mixed with Tums, or probiotics, or a multivitamin (rotated through these) about 4 times/day. Yesterday we ended up taking her to the vet and he gave her 3 liters of IV fluids and an amp of glucose IV. Even though we are 2 days early for the 144 day mark of inducing...we did give her dexamathasone this morning about 9am. Her status this afternoon: she still hasn't drank much, and has only had a bite or two here and there, she is marginally more active (able to stand up and more resistance to our drenches), Her eyes are a little sunken looking, and I can still feel fetal movement. At about 4pm we gave her Calcium gluconate SQ "just in case". 

I am worried. I *think* she is slightly better, but not out of the woods. Has anyone had a goat get down this far and still survive to raise the kids? Is there something else I'm missing? Our thoughts at this point are to give 12 hours for the dex to start working and then give hormone to induce labor. We have a vet on standby to do a csection, but he isn't really a goat vet (PLEASE be nice...I'm trying to save a pet and if possible, her babies).


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I have no experience with this, I am sorry. But I wanted to say that I hope and pray your doe will be okay, and her babies too.

I never knew pregnancy toxemia was so common. I've been seeing it posted a lot on groups/forums. I am so sorry your having to deal with this. Hopefully she can deliver the kids on her own without needing a c-section.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

See this thread: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/pregnancy-toxemia-140605/


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ask your vet for CMPK


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

If she's a pet and money is not a problem, C section might be the best route. I'd have to have faith in the vet though. Best outcomes I've heard of were with the doe standing. Whatever that entails.
You've been trying. It should have helped. 
I'm worried she is dehydrated again. That's one reason why I like the "revive" recipe. You double it with warm water and they take it well in a drench. I've tubed sick adult goats with the revive and a pint of warm water too.

edit. You are doing a lot of *right* things. You say she is somewhat better. She might be turning the corner. Keep her hydrated. Keep doing what you are doing. I hope those babies are mature enough to come a little early.


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

Of course after I post I find that thread...lol, thanks for pointing it out. I will have to look into some of the home CMPK mix. I'm quickly getting quite a home vet supply! Ah well...back to the barn...


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

I hadn't run across the "revive" recipe but will give it a shot. We gave her estrumate late last night and she had a long drink by herself at that time. She is getting up and repositioning herself, but stands for no more than a few minutes. She does walk stiffly when she does walk, but the edema in her legs is less than it had been. We have been occaisionally giving her some water with the magic mixture. I think we are riding the fence on her status...she seems more down at my 5:30 check. We do plan to have her csectioned if she doesn't have them by tomorrow or if she gets worse. Thankfully I have today and tomorrow off to keep a close eye on her. 

Can you use a calf tube on a goat? 

Thanks for the advice! This is nervewracking!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

went through toxemia last year - she is at a fine time to induce (kids can survive at 142 days and be 100% healthy) -- have that done now. no need to C section her and chance loosing her when she is still strong enough to go through labor and delivery. You may need to manually dilate her so be ready to just gently work your finger in a circular motion around the cervix to dilate. Not all toxemia does need manual dilation but some do.

also I second the CMPK - not sure why your vet didnt give calcium but I would!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

A calf tube is what I use. The kind with the somewhat flexible 4 pint bottle. If she's drinking on her own, that seems unnecessary.

http://goatsinthegarden.blogspot.com/2009/10/magic-and-revive-treatment-for-goats.html


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> also I second the CMPK - not sure why your vet didnt give calcium but I would!


Mutant Atoms has said they gave injectable calcium. It's not like this doe isn't getting any sort of calcium therapy at all. They have also already initiated inducing labor.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

she gave one dose of calcium -- but Im second guessing the vet not giving it in the first place. I would be giving more calcium each day. Also she said she was going to Csection the doe before inducing. Yes Dex can induce but Ive tried it before with no results so I dont count on Dex being a good inducer she needs Lut


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> she gave one dose of calcium -- but Im second guessing the vet not giving it in the first place. I would be giving more calcium each day. Also she said she was going to Csection the doe before inducing. Yes Dex can induce but Ive tried it before with no results so I dont count on Dex being a good inducer she needs Lut


"Estrumate" is prostaglandin like lutalyse is. I agree she should not have a C section done unless the doe gets worse and is unable to have them on her own. If she seems to be in labor, but isn't properly dialating, I would for sure have a C section.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

wasnt familiar with estrumate - thanks for filling me in


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## Frosty (Feb 13, 2010)

Well I wish you luck and hope she kids for you and has a fairly easy time of it. You have been working real hard for her Keep up the good work and keep us posted


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

how far away are you from FtCollins. If you don't feel good about your vet you could take her into the training hospital for CSU. Lots of good goat docs there.

But you def don't want to stress her out at all. Was thinking SE Wyoming might be an hour drive or so from FtCollins. Are you close to Cheyenne?

I'm almost in the same boat. I've got one doe who has given me trips and twins. Shes pretty big now and has 2 months to go. I left the barn door open when a cold front came through a few days ago and that set her off. Treated with Probios, VitB, NutriDrench for 3 days in a row. She's doin good now but now have a trouble child on my hands for a few months.


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

Stacey...you are right, the Calcium was my idea. My normal goat vet is out of town...so the partner I saw gave me recommendations that I didn't follow...After the IV he said to just give her 1/2 cup of propolyne glycol daily and stop doing the molases drenches and come back if she didn't get better. He also did not want me to induce her for another week, but I weighed my options and all the advice I got (from reading articles online, another vet's advice, and the breeder I bought her from) and decided to start with 5cc/10mg of dex to start "detaching the condolydins and help mature the kid's lungs". I waited 12 hours before giving the Estrumate 1cc (9pm last night). I didn't have access to Lute, and the breeder prefers to use Estrumate over Lute for some reason...and so that's what I had...for better or worse. 

Back on the Calcium. I first tried to crush Tums and mix it in with the magic drench...but found that it clogged up the syringe I had. I found some other calcium supplements and made a royal mess in my kitchen crushing those. We have cattle, so when my husband got home we cracked out the Calcium gluconate and gave her 40mg last night and again at 5 this morning. 

Her status right now: She has only sipped water (maybe 1/2 cup?), eaten a handful of hay/grass, babies still moving inside, I don't notice any consistent contractions. She does stand up to turn around and go lay down in another spot without my prompting. Her leg swelling is down, but she still seems sore...more on her front legs. I'm not sure how to check the cervix?? I don't want to give her an infection...is it too soon to be checking that? How often should I be giving the calcium?

LilBleats...I'm 70mi north-westish of Cheyenne. I was wondering...you said "trouble child on (your) hands for a few months"...did you have to do a lot with your doe after she kidded and showed signs of toxemia? Just wondering how long I will need to worry about her. lol

Thanks everyone....


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

If you can still see the kids moving/kicking they haven't moved into position. If she does indeed start going into labor be prepared to go fishing for kids. Also be prepared for preemies since it doesn't sound like they're ready.


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

Ok. 24 hrs after the Estrumate she now has whitish/clear discharge. Gonna be a LONG night I think. Any bets on when?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Good luck. I'm praying for you.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

how did things go? babies by now I hope


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

No, but we are getting closer. She had mucous hanging from her still this AM so I got the OB gloves out and pulled that off, then slightly pulled her labia apart...there was a bulge RIGHT there. I kinda stretched her external opening (gently) and she pushed...and the water broke. I felt in up to my knuckles and can fit 3 fingers easily without resistance. I didn't feel any babies close by though?? (This was 45 min ago). She got up and was restless for about 5 min but doesn't seem to be actively in hard labor? I called the vet and they said give it an hour or two as long as she is not in hard labor and not progressing...that she may still be re-positioning. Sound right?? The plus side is that this entire last few days I've been worried that she would have enough energy to make it through labor but when her water broke she showed more activity and "life" than she has in 2 weeks. I've kept treating her every few hours and even though she isn't eating she did have a long drink last night and this AM.....back to the barn!!

Also...the water was amber colored, not dark (looked pretty healthy to me so far)...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if kids arent in position she may not go into active labor. Hopefully she does soon so you dont have to go fishing for kids


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## arigney (Feb 18, 2013)

Good luck! We are new to goats and are worried about these kinds of complications.


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## goatlover74 (Nov 28, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your goat. I hope it all turns out well. Never experienced any if this, but send my thoughts and prayers. Any new news? Babies? Mom ok?


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

Here's the latest. Bab's water had broke about 10:30am but she just wasn't trying at all. I think I saw about 8 pushes total from her...spread out over the couple hours. I had called the vet and the receptionist told me "give her at least an hour (to progress) before you call back." (since I had not pestered the vet since Sat this was an annoying thing to say…but I digress) This was after I had already waited for about 1/2 hr from the time her water broke for her to do ANYTHING. Poor Babs just laid there, only getting up to change positions here and there but didn't drink or eat. 

At 3pm I loaded her up and took her to the vets. It takes about an hour to get to town, so it was 4pm by the time I got there. The vet confirmed what I thought…she was dialated but not progressing. She also had a slight temp. So the vet went fishing and pulled out a boy, a dead boy, a breech girl, and a giant boy. The vet estimated that the dead baby had been dead about a week or two…which in combination with the 4 total babies and one really large boy…probably caused her toxemia. I’m glad that it wasn’t what I was feeding her…I just wish I had caught her symptoms sooner, but I will know what to look for next time. 

Still good and bad to deal with: Babs almost immediately perked up after having the babies and drank practically a gallon of water before we even left the vet. She ended up with a shot of antibiotic and oxytocin (after confirming the last one was out). She will have 4 more days of antibiotics and hopefully will start eating now. She was very attentive to the babies and cleaning them up. 

Now the bad…after 1 ½ hrs the babies still had not stood up and were chilled. Babs kept pawing at them to get up but that just succedded in rolling them away from the heat lamp. So…I now have 3 babies in my kitchen trying to warm up. Thankfully Babs let me milk her…but I think due to the stress of everything…she didn’t have much to give. The babies are still are not standing, but I got an ounce down 2 of them and maybe a couple cc’s down the giant boy. Their mouths were pretty cold by the time we got into the house…but are getting better. I mixed Bab’s milk in with some colostrum paste and milk replacer to feed them for now??

I hope somebody benefits from reading this….I learned a heck of a lot in the last couple days!! Thanks for listening/reading my rant!

Also…any suggestions on the babies?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

It would be good if you could tube them colostrum. If they are warm that is. I've had weak babies turn into strong babies with just two ounces of colostrum tubed into their bellies.
edit. Really the darn vet should have done it before they sent you home.
Hope you can save those beautiful red heads.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

so glad for the good outcome. 
As I read through your information, I had a doe do with a dead kid last year out of a set of triplets and although she didn't have the toxemia problems instead of going into labor she went into heat. She acted like this for the entire day and we finally put her in a kidding pen and reached in to see what was going on, she was fully dialated and we fished out 3 kids, one very dead and two live girls. she never pushed one time. 

ON a note about the drenching you did, you for sure saved her with all you did for her. magic drench is great and The revive recipe that is floating around the internet is more complex, but also very very good. The elevated temp is a good lesson to all of us to take our goats temps. Clearly she had an infection going on and in this case it was the dead kid. 
You can also get bags of Iv fluid from you vet and an IV kit and just run it sub-Q into the goat until there is a large bulge and then move to a new location. I saved a doe last summer from a heavy worm load by using Magic drench and 2 bags of IV flyid a day, while I gave her stomach time to heal, and the iron shots to start working, she was very very anemic. 

We have given the calcium gluconate at the rate of 45 cc( 3 locations of 15cc each) and then again in 4 hours and then again the next day. If it is a low calcium prolem you will see a lot of improvement with in the first 8 hours or so. But some extra calcium wont hurt a big doe like that, even if she doesn't really need it. I wouldn't keep on giving it though. THe calcium in the tums is absorbed so slowly it is really pointless with out getting CMPK or another fast absorbing calcium into the doe first. 

I have also alternated the drenches, between magic and a yogurt drench that I make with vanilla yogurt(not light), a raw egg and some corn syrup and a teaspoon of baking soda. 
Don't forget to add a couple teaspoons of baking soda to one or two of the drenches daily, to help with stomach upset and bloat. 

Your doe has been through a lot, i would be giving her probiotics daily for several days past the last dosage of antibiotics. I am assuming the vet had you put her on antibiotics.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

As far as the babies go, the vet most certainly should have tube fed them for you. and should you how to do it and sent you the supplies home. We have tube fed weak kids for 2 or 3 days every 4 to 6 hours before they got going. I hope you were able to get them through the night. If they are still weak and you are reading this. learn about tube feeding. If she doesn't have enough milk get some replacer, Not supplement for colostrum. There replacer is more expensive and better. Do that for 24 hours and then go with whole cows milk recipe, but don't give up trying to get at least two of them to nurse. I have been able to get one or two to nurse and then bottle feed the 3rd one, but keep them all together with mom. When they start taking a botle and aren't actually put to the teat, they will not no any different and wont try to take the teat after that. You can get them to take the teat if you want to, but you will have to put it in their mouth and hold them up to the teat every 3 or 4 hours when they are strong enough. 
hope that helps. 
I have detailed tube feeding instructions if you need them, contact me by e-mail if you need.


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## MutantAtoms (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for the great advice. I had to work and turned goat-ICU duty over to my husband during the day. lol. Babs is on antibiotics. When we checked on her later she was back to laying down and not really eating. We did drench her again and in the am gave her CMPK one time. When my husband tried to get her to walk to the water he noticed her hips were making a grind/pop noise. Before we had left the vet she had mentioned that her hips felt loose, but in the excitement I forgot to ask more. Anyway, the entire next day she was back to refusing to eat and drink...finally he gave her banamine IM and after a bit she was up on her feet eating and drinking (a little). We have stopped the drenches/injections today and just given the banamine. She is eating hay, drinking, and FINALLY standing without prompting!!

Babies: about 24 hours after they were born the babies started being able to stand and take a few steps! The largest boy didn't have much of a suckle reflex so I did end up learning how to tube that baby. I agree....I REALLY wish the vet hadn't rushed me out the door with my new kids and shown me how to do this. Thankfully I had bought a baby tube from Hoeger supply a week before all this started and it came with instructions. I was terrified, but it worked! We briefly tried to see if we could get them back with Babs, but with her being so run down and them still weak...we just decided to keep them as bottle babies. We had practice last year with bottle babies...so thankfully I don't have to learn that this week too!! (I managed to get fresh-frozen colostrum from a goat breeder in the area)

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I admire all of you who have done this before!!

If you want to see the little ones in their temporary home...


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh thats good news


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