# Sick PeeWee. Any suggestions welcome



## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

I've posted about little PeeWee before. He is a weather born Jan 1st. He's not doing much better. He has had 5 days of Corid at 1.5 ml per day after the vet did a fecal. He then said to add 5 ml to 1 gal of water and do that for the herd for 21 days. 
Today he seems weak and eyelids even more pale. 
I got pedalyte and nutradrench and also some probiotic powder. I gave him the pedalyte mixed with the nutradrench and probiotics incase he is dehydrating. He does not seem all that interested in food today. 
His history for the past month: 
Very hard stomach
Pale eyelids
Loud bleeting
Teeth grinding
Intermittent loose stools or very large dog sized stools
Increasing lethargy
Hunched stance
Yellow crusty eyes

I have tried giving him a baking soda paste in the past in a syringe with hopes to release some pressure on his tummy. I'm afraid to give him any thing more tonight since the pedalyte mixture. His stomach is gurgling loudly. He is sleeping on my lap in my garage right now as I type. I'm keeping him in a pen in there the next few days to make sure he gets enough food and water. 

Is this a bad case of worms? 

I gave him some Safeguard about a week ago, used what the package said. But since reading on the internet they say to give 3 times the package dose. 

I don't know what to do! I'm so worried about him.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

In my area safeguard and Corid are both worthless. No one will use Corid here for treatment, only preventative. And safeguard, here at least, is only used in very large doses to treat meningeal worm. 

It's possible that neither of those even touched the problem. Try a better sulfa med. I use dimethox.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

As in antibiotic? Sulfatrim?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Have you taken him to the vet?


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Your goat sounds like he is in so much pain--poor thing! I'm glad you are comforting him in your lap & have consulted a vet. Did the vet not give you a diagnosis? I don't have much experience with sick goats (Knock on wood!!) but I wonder if an iron supplement would help with the anemia (pale eyelids) also iron is constipating to humans so I wonder if it would help his stools? If that doesn't sound good, molasses has some iron & might give him some energy.

The only time our goats got diarrhea was from too much protein-grain or alfalfa. So when I bought some goats who were a bit thin, I added corn oil & molasses to their food rather than more grain. When our pets aren't doing well we tend to want to give them a really rich & nutritious diet but that can backfire with ruminants because of the protien. What have you been feeding him? If he's not eating at all you could try some healthy treats like dates or raisins. Those are my goats' favorites; maybe other people have some real taste tempters too.

I'm sorry I don't have much help to offer--I really just wanted to give you some sympathy & encouragement. Sometimes I feel that feed store workers can be of more help than a vet, & their advice is free. In fact, with my chickens I rely on my favorite feed stores 100% unless it is a major injury.

Good luck to you & your poor little boy!


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

When our Kitka was super anemic I gave her Redcell. The only bummer was I had to buy it in a gallon jug. NOT a plus for a teeny 4 goat farm! Kitty loved the taste, so it was easy to give. It didn't end up helping her because she passed away from an enlarged heart, but if Pee-Wee's symptoms are related to parasites, it might be quite helpful for him.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

I agree with the Corid and Safeguard being useless. I would treat him with Baycox and possibly cydectin. And I agree with Groovy that Redcell is an excellent iron supplement. Mine love the taste and it has really helped with anemia. Whatever kind of worms he's got, it sounds like you really need to knock 'em out with something strong before they cause to much damage. I had a wether that was severely infected with parasites and coccidia and it caused so much internal damage that it was almost impossible to keep weight on him and he had a very hard time staying healthy.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

You all are amazing!! Thank you so much for your sympathy and understanding. 
I woke up to PeeWee have terrible scours. GRRRRR! 
I took another stool sample into the vet this morning so hopefully we can get some answers. This time I know the sample was 100% his bc he is in a pen in my garage until he feels better. 
My vet is insisting about Corid being the drug of choice. I'm going to suggest some of the others you mentioned to him when he calls me back with the results. He has done a 5 day treatment only to wind up looking worse and with diahrea again. 
After the electrolytes and nutradrench he does seem to be mildly less lethargic. But I'm worrying the nutra drench is causing the diahrea. Oh I just don't know. I'm getting so frustrated!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

If it's coccidia, I highly recommend Baycox. If your vet keeps recommending Corid and its not helping him you need to get hims something stronger. Baycox is a one dose treatment, and you don't have to get it through a vet. It is the most effective cocci treatment I have ever used.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Not an antibiotic, unless he has some sort of infection which would show with a high temperature usually. You don't need to go through a vet for cocci meds; if he has cocci just get something other than Corid. Baycox or albon would be good choices, brand name or generic.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How much does he weigh?
Dosage for corid, already diluted _is: 
__30cc per 100lbs
15cc per 50lbs_
7.5 cc per 25lbs
for 5 days

I never have any issues with corid not working, it works really well for my goats even with active cases. You must give proper dosage by weight, slighly overdosing is OK but do not underdose. Giving it in water for them to drink does nothing, some goats will not drink enough. Do not give thiamine or fortified vit B complex while giving corid, if you do, it cancels out the corid.

If he has anemia, give the red cell for 1 week, then 1 x a week until 
the coloring is close to normal then stop, then monitor. 
I highly recommend getting a fecal for worms and cocci, that way, it will let you know where he is at. Being anemic may indeed mean worms. 
If you cannot get a fecal, I would give Ivomec SQ 1 cc per 40 lbs, then again 10 days later, at this point, you can give it orally at 1 cc per 33 lbs, it is given 3x, 10 days apart.

Give a copper bolus, helps to fight worms, if he is deficient.

Safe guard for our area doesn't work any more, even a 3 x dosage.

Follow up with probitics, the next day, if you worm him.
if you do happen to give corid again, wait until the 6th day, after all 5 days of corid treatment is given, then do the fortified vit B complex for 4 days, 1 x a day.

Wipe the eyes with warm cloth and put penG in them, no needle, just drip some in there for 4 days.

What is his temp?


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

He passed away during the night  I tried everything!


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so very sorry. You did everything you could, sometimes no matter how hard we try, we still lose the battle.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

So sorry for your loss.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

Would you guys treat the other 2 with Baycox just to be sure they dont get it? I'm sure they "carry" it, don't they all? My oldest goat is Baxter. He was born May 2015. Then there's Rocky, born Dec 2015. I'm not as worried about Baxter as I am Rocky bc of his age. Neither show any symptoms of diahrea.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would treat them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

Thankfully the Baycox arrived today! And it has been administered. Hopefully we are out of the woods for now and forever!! 
I have noticed Rocky starting to look bloated like PeeWee was. No diahrea, just a harder than normal stomach. I'm glad I've treated. It has been so rainy here. 
Will I see any side effects from treatment? 
I will give them both Probios later today and for the next few days as well to heal the gut. Thank you ALL for all the help, support, and understanding. This was a very sad way to learn about the dangers of coccidia.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't use Baycox, so I have no insight about it.

Cocci is a terrible thing for sure. 

Hope things will be better for you and your goaties.

If your goat is bloated, he needs something for that.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

I don't mean bloat- I mean his stomach is hard on both sides and seems bigger and harder than normal or what it was last week before all this PeeWee stuff happened. PeeWee was like that for several weeks when we were trying to find the solution with the vet. 
The 2 previous stool samples showed no worms at all according to my vet. 

What else besides coccidia and worms causes a hard expanded stomach in a goat?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Bloat, symptoms are tight as a drum belly and extended way above the left rib cage.
It can kill a goat if left untreated.

Has the goat pooped? Constipation is another thing.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

What things do you feed your goats & in what quantities? Wethers don't need a rich diet-some people even say no alfalfa for wethers. Was there a change in feed before either goat started symptoms? Any new supplements or meds or vaccines? Some people throw hay on the ground for their goats but eating from the ground they can get parasites more easily. Also goats don't really like to eat off the ground.

I feel so sad for you & Pee Wee! You did so much to try & save him! My condolences to you.


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

We feed a local organic orchard grass, and Noble Goat pellets. I put a flake of the orchard grass in their feeder 2ce a day. They will eventually have pasture but we are working on fencing it in. So not yet on that. I'm beginning to wonder if we are giving too much Noble goat. ? We have those black nail up trough things from TSC to put their pellets in. We just scatter the scoop full down it. They love the pellets! But I've recently read they should only be getting like 1/4 c each per day?? Is that right? 
Here is a picture of Rocky. His stomach is so hard! He was not like this the other day and now since PeeWee passed away, he's doing the same thing. 
We order and administered the Baycox. So it can't be coccidia still. ? His eyelids are nice and pink. I'm just worried about him now.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

If I'm picturing the feeder right, that is way too much. Really they don't even need pellets, it's kind of an extra. I feed three minis two pounds of feed a day, which is half alfalfa pellets and half noble goat with a sprinkle of BOSS... And my girls are getting plump so I'm thinking about reducing that. 

I'd majorly cut back on the feed and keep a close eye on him. Baycox should have taken care of cocci.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Way too much pellets. I would feed them individually with no more than 1/2 cup per day.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, it is too much noble goat feed.

If you treat for cocci, it takes 21 days from last treatment to strike again if it does.

A fecal though, will let you know if it is or not.

Is the goat pooping and peeing OK?


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## Kbennj (Mar 21, 2016)

Thank you for the update. We have cut way back on the Noble Goat. Last night we held it completely. They just ate the orchard grass. He was STILL puffy last night and again this morning !! Why would that be?? Unless there's something wrong with orchard grass that we feed.?? Should I still be giving probiotics? I can't help but feel helpless and stupid here. I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It could be just a good rumen. Is he showing any discomfort?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Are they getting the hay free choice?

If a goat has a full rumen, it is usually known when they are locked in at night and are not get fed until morning when they are let out for the day, usually in the morning their tummies will be down not full looking. 
By the end of the day, they will be extended a bit out, almost pregnant looking. Then shrink down again by morning.
But if they are being fed 24/7 there is no way in telling what is going on. But yet, never abruptly change their diet, they should be weaned off of it, to prevent rumen upset.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Kbenjj, you're not doing "everything wrong." Even the experts seem stumped! It must be an unusual illness. Reducing the goat chow sounds good. They do love it though, don't they? My goats love tree branches even more though! They get really excited. Within 24 hours the biggest branch I can drag ends up looking like driftwood-no leaves, twigs, or bark. Then they try to climb in them & rub their horns on them. Branches are natural healthy food since goats are browsers. Branches have lots of roughage for their rumens & they get minerals eating the bark, but they don't have all the protein that can mess up their rumens. Mine love conifers, maples, fruit trees & willows. I read that oak can be bad.

Your goat's shape doesn't look really unusual me but after losing Pee Wee I would be worrying anyway too. Pee Wee had other symptoms-are any of those happening again? Does his tail point up most of the time? 

Good luck!! I hope someone can help you.


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