# Perplexing situation



## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Okay, my 3-4yr old nigerian I believe is pregnant. I don't think that her utter would start filling up and getting bigger for no reason. I did see the male get her in May. What is confusing is that she goes over to the billy pen now and sits by the gate and the billys do their bucky thing. I let the 5 month old billy out with her and she had a standing heat. She let him get her. If she is pg why would she let a billy do this? A friend told me that the billies will go after does esp. during rut regardless of the doe's situation. That I can understand but why would she hold still and let him? It's been day 4 now and the billies are still acting the same way around her.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

Her hormones are changing, there is no way she would still be in heat after 3-4 days. She may just be attracted to the rut smell. Bucks will try anytime and she may be to pregnant to run. What does she look like from the rear? Big on the right? Tke a picture and then we'll tell you.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

yeah I know she wouldn't be in heat just didn't understand why she would let the billy get her. Her is a pic from a previous threat and hers is a little bigger now...it's date stamped.. http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f218/goat-pregnant-152846/


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

she isn't big on the right yet, from what I understand that doesn't happen until closer to the end...


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

here is the latest one...


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## sandraH (Mar 1, 2013)

She looks exactly like my doe peaches. Mine has an udder like hers from last pregnancy. She is due in 8 weeks but mine us not filling up bigger yet. Mine would not let buck get to them after they caught. Buck is not interested anymore either.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

She has never been pregnant and I've had her for over a year and she didn't have swelling utters  I only had a wether until July this year. Borrowed a buck that got her in May. I don't have the wether anymore and now I have a 6month and 5 month bucks in a separate pen from the does. 

I agree with you that is why it's perplexing... I saw and watched a buck get her in May...didn't think anything of it until I noticed the utters a couple months later... I've spoken to other goat owners and they say it isn't unusual for some goats in a couple of months to start showing swelling utters, some do some don't.


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## sandraH (Mar 1, 2013)

I watched my buck get mine too but then they went back in heat. This time they are for sure caught as I had ultrasound done on all my does. Maybe she is caught.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

Then why is her utter swelling month by month?



sandraH said:


> I watched my buck get mine too but then they went back in heat. This time they are for sure caught as I had ultrasound done on all my does. Maybe she is caught.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

A does udder when preego will begin to fill 1 to 1 1/2 months prior to kidding. If she is a First timer, her udder is definitely showing there.
Month by month, not sure what you mean there.

It is strange, she is allowing a buck to mount her. 

Can you get a pic of her pooch area, tail up naturally, clear enough to see? 

Another thing that can happen, is false pregnancy or precocious udder.

Does she have access to loose salt and minerals?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

My doe I lost last year would let the bucks breed her all year long if I let them. She didn't care if she was bred open or close to kidding or what buck it was. I don't know if she had some kind of hormone issue or just a s*** but that was her. She looks very much bred to me there. I would keep the bucks away from her for the next 8 weeks. Also write this last date down just in case. If no kids after 8 weeks then see if you can see a heat. If she is like my girl was its a pain but be safe and figure for now she is due on the day you have. Do the pooch pics too


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I mean each month it seems to get a little bit bigger pooch... ok I got some pics hopefully since she won't hold still. I won't be able milk her.
See below I can't tell the pooch thing. They all have access to minerals, salt block and baking soda.

That is what was confusing me is why she let the little billy get her and then for 4 days in a row she would lay by their gate and they would blubber and carry on like she was in heat for 4 days, which I know is unlikely.



toth boer goats said:


> A does udder when preego will begin to fill 1 to 1 1/2 months prior to kidding. If she is a First timer, her udder is definitely showing there.
> Month by month, not sure what you mean there.
> 
> It is strange, she is allowing a buck to mount her.
> ...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She looks like she could be.

Can you feel around her tailhead area and see if it is losing up?


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I just felt around the other does for comparison and she seems to be the same as the other, not loose. But if she isn't expected to kid until mid Oct, would they be loose?

I looked at the pooch pictures on the site and for the life of me I don't know what I'm looking for. To me, they look all the same 

Thanks....



toth boer goats said:


> She looks like she could be.
> 
> Can you feel around her tailhead area and see if it is losing up?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am no expert at the pooch reading. Hopefully you can get another opinion here.

Now that you say, she is not loosening at the tailhead area and if she is 4 months along, yes, her ligs should be softening. So not sure if she is preggo.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm no expert but from looking at the last pictures, her vulva is pointing down. I learned this last week from Goathiker However, like I said I'm no expert but my vote is bred.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I just don't have enough experience to know :-( The goat breeders and such around here don't help when you ask questions.... They are all nice when you purchase a goat from them and all friendly and say I can call and ask anytime, but they don't return calls or answer...



toth boer goats said:


> I am no expert at the pooch reading. Hopefully you can get another opinion here.
> 
> Now that you say, she is not loosening at the tailhead area and if she is 4 months along, yes, her ligs should be softening. So not sure if she is preggo.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

the part where she pees from?



janeen128 said:


> I'm no expert but from looking at the last pictures, her vulva is pointing down. I learned this last week from Goathiker However, like I said I'm no expert but my vote is bred.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Look at the thread "up close and personal" in the Health & Wellness section, the date is 9/14. That thread explains it I would post on here, but I have no idea how...sorry


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

ok I was looking at the pooch test threat at the top of the list in the forum page.



janeen128 said:


> Look at the thread "up close and personal" in the Health & Wellness section, the date is 9/14. That thread explains it I would post on here, but I have no idea how...sorry


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I can't even find it looking at the first page of the forums :-(



janeen128 said:


> Look at the thread "up close and personal" in the Health & Wellness section, the date is 9/14. That thread explains it I would post on here, but I have no idea how...sorry


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Are you looking on the health and wellness forum? I found it right away with the date. There is goat management, health and wellness, beginners in goat raising which is the one we are on now. I'll try to post the tread here, but I'm not too quick on figuring those things out.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

If you copy the URL (highlight it and then copy)--
( www.thegoatspot.net.....) and past on here I can link to it.



janeen128 said:


> Are you looking on the health and wellness forum? I found it right away with the date. There is goat management, health and wellness, beginners in goat raising which is the one we are on now. I'll try to post the tread here, but I'm not too quick on figuring those things out.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, I'm on my phone, I'm not close to a computer Sorry about that. I can't copy to here using my phone


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok since you PMed me I went back and read all your topics on this. I see in your previous post http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f218/goat-pregnant-152846/ that you said she was bred early May. SO that would put her due date the end of this month - September - beings we are at the middle of the month adn her udder hasnt changed I would say she either was bred and reabsorbed (basically miscarried) or she never conceived in the first place.

Standing or laying by the boys pen for 4 days is no uncommon as does have at time of going into heat and then standing heat for 12-24 hours and then they have a day or so of going out of heat.

Sounds like your doe responded to the boy in the spring but didnt take - despite her udder development (which also can be explained by a false pregnancy). And is now in heat again and was bred when the buck mounted her this time around. I would mark that date as the day of breeding and count 145-150 days for a due date.

Now there is still a slight chance that she just isnt going to fill her udder until the week of kidding and is indeed pregnant now. Since you know she was with the buck the end of April/beginning of May you know that she cant go past the end of September and that will be your "kidding watch" time just in case.

Hope that helps


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

I thought like the beginning of may 9th-15 or 16th... would have been conception ( I saw it don't remember the exact date) and he was with them for two weeks...May 9th I got him and returned him three weeks later and he was with all does... so five months would be mid October, right? her utter has gotten bigger since Aug pics... but what was confusing is that the young buck got her Friday and she stood still... watched that one as well... geeze this is hard. I was looking at your pooch pics and one lady posted that her vulva was downward position? Your pic they are all like that.. I just can't tell.


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## GroundGoats (Sep 17, 2013)

My ND doe developed an udder around midsummer, no signs of heat or breeding and our ND buck is way too short. We moved her out from the buck pen for three months, then her udder just went away. She's kidded 3 times already and last season was her first without kids. Now, a month or so later, she's in full standing heat and the buck is trying his hardest to mount her.

Sometimes they just develop a small udder for no reason; changes in feed and changes in hormones can affect the udder. 
Definitely consider a miscarriage as the most likely reason though.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

ok, but mine did get mounted probably on more than one occasion and yours didn't. She isn't in the buck pen, they are kept mostly away from the buck pen as they are in their area or out browsing and sleep way far away from the bucks...I just got them they are now 6 mo. and 5 mo. The buck that got her was a good breeder and a loan. Thanks for sharing.



GroundGoats said:


> My ND doe developed an udder around midsummer, no signs of heat or breeding and our ND buck is way too short. We moved her out from the buck pen for three months, then her udder just went away. She's kidded 3 times already and last season was her first without kids. Now, a month or so later, she's in full standing heat and the buck is trying his hardest to mount her.
> 
> Sometimes they just develop a small udder for no reason; changes in feed and changes in hormones can affect the udder.
> Definitely consider a miscarriage as the most likely reason though.


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## GroundGoats (Sep 17, 2013)

Well then maybe you just need to wait a bit more


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Can you have her preg checked?


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

don't know how, we don't have many vets here that deal with goats much less getting her anyway... :-( I just worry that I need to be here if she is to kid. This not knowing is very frustrating LOL.

again, I looked at the pooch test on this site and to me the pictures all look the same as don't know what to look for. Oh well.. thanks anyway.



toth boer goats said:


> Can you have her preg checked?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

you dont need a vet to do a pregnancy check. But be sure if you do the blood test through biotracking.com that you do it BEFORE 30 days after this last "breeding" you saw or it could come up pregnant and be because of this past breeding and not because you had her in with the buck in May. 

Really I think you just need to breath relax and just wait it out a few more weeks. You are riling yourself up and wracking your brain and asking us for answers that time will answer.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I agree. Wait a few weeks and time will tell whether she is bred or not. Her udder will start to fill more and more until it is tight. She will have clear goop from her vaginal area. Watch each day several times for changes. Keep a picture log of her ENTIRE rear, including top to feet and entire right side and a good shot from above. She will change in size and shape everywhere.

Is this her first kidding? If not, she will know what to do, and the temps are ok for kids hitting the ground. You don't have to worry about them freezing like in the winter.

Be sure to have your kidding supplies ready.


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## ladyharley (Sep 7, 2012)

yes this is her first kidding. We really don't have winters here...once maybe twice there will be dry snow that dries up by noon...rarely does it drop to 20 at night.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

ok...first off. breathe!!!

now, have you tried "bumping" for babies? I can't tell by looking at the back ends either, BUT if you think she maybe due end of this month/early next month, then you should be able to feel for babies.

put your hand under her belly, on the right side, just in front of where her udder should be. press firm (not hard, just press in a little). stay there for a bit. if babies move, then you should feel the movement. you may have to shift around, but babies are on the right hand side. I had great success with feeling just in front of the udder.

and don't worry, more times than not, goat mommas, first timers or not, know what to do. if they don't, then we're here for ya.

but for now, don't panic! feel around and see what you can find. if you really want, get a blood test, but I think it could be best to just wait it out (and have a kidding kit ready just in case). good luck!


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