# Moonspots?



## Sonrise Farm

What are the genetic ties with moonspots? Is it like the genetic tie of blue eyes? How is it passed along, etc?


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## Amos

I've heard frosted and belted bred together create moonspots?


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## Haviris

It's supposed to be dominate, you have to have it to get it (similar to blue eyes).


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## HollowbeadRanch

Haviris said:


> It's supposed to be dominate, you have to have it to get it (similar to blue eyes).


This is what I have been told as well. One of the parents has to have moonspots for the offspring to have moonspots. I don't know alot about the genetics of it, but Tina (Laurel_Haven) might be able to tell you a little more about it :shrug: The majority of her herd has moonspots :greengrin:


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## KW Farms

Either the sire or the dam has to have them, but even if both sire and dam have them it is possible to not get them, but that kid would have a VERY good chance to pass on moonspots if bred to another moonspotted goat...hope that made sense. I think some goats are more dominant in carrying the gene and others aren't. They tends to be very dominant when both parents are moonspotted and the resulting kid is moonspotted. I have a moonspotted buck that I have used on some of my does, but this is the first time using him so I don't know what he'll throw...i'm excited to see.


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## jordan

HollowbeadRanch said:


> Haviris said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's supposed to be dominate, you have to have it to get it (similar to blue eyes).
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I have been told as well. One of the parents has to have moonspots for the offspring to have moonspots. I don't know alot about the genetics of it, but Tina (Laurel_Haven) might be able to tell you a little more about it :shrug: The majority of her herd has moonspots :greengrin:
Click to expand...

They don't nessessarily have to have them to throw them. I have a dark buckskin buck who throws them pretty regularly as does his sire (who doesn't have them either). I think the genetics just have to be there, though if they have them it's not going to be as much of a crap shoot. 
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## Laurel_Haven

It is like the blue eyed gene trait. At least one parent must have moonspots to pass them onto the offspring. 
Some tend to think this is not true because they don't see monspots on say the sire who is throwing them... but he does have them, it may just be one single hair of a moonspot. But he has it. So yes, the dam or sire must have moonspots to be passed on. 

A great example is my buck Caesar's Villa STS Sharpie, I for the longest time didn't even know that he had moonspots. To me he is black with white. But then he started throwing all these heavily moonspotted kids out of nowhere. Now I knew his sire sported them and others throughout his pedigree but couldn't find any on Sharpie himself. But I was told by a very knowledgeable breeder that he has to have them to throw them even if it is a single hair. Well the first time I shaved him down, I found them, about 5 single hairs that produced a lighter shade of grey. So even though it was not visiable on his full black & white pattern he had one hidden and throws lots of those spots. Same really goes for my other sire Rocky... he does look to have them, he is gold & white, but once clipped they are visiable. So I sort of stumbled unknowingly into the moonspots I get today. :thumbup:


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## HollowbeadRanch

That's what I had thought. And yes, I have seen a few bucks that have moonspots that you couldn't see until they were shaved. I have also seen a few breeders who post pics of their bucks in full coat and a pic of them shaved to show that they DO have moonspots under all that fluff :greengrin:

BTW, Tina, do you know of any good websites that tell ALOT about moonspots? I have had alot of people ask me for more info but I haven't been able to find any :shrug:


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## SDK

Laurel_Haven said:


> It is like the blue eyed gene trait. At least one parent must have moonspots to pass them onto the offspring.
> Some tend to think this is not true because they don't see monspots on say the sire who is throwing them... but he does have them, it may just be one single hair of a moonspot. But he has it. So yes, the dam or sire must have moonspots to be passed on.
> 
> A great example is my buck Caesar's Villa STS Sharpie, I for the longest time didn't even know that he had moonspots. To me he is black with white. But then he started throwing all these heavily moonspotted kids out of nowhere. Now I knew his sire sported them and others throughout his pedigree but couldn't find any on Sharpie himself. But I was told by a very knowledgeable breeder that he has to have them to throw them even if it is a single hair. Well the first time I shaved him down, I found them, about 5 single hairs that produced a lighter shade of grey. So even though it was not visiable on his full black & white pattern he had one hidden and throws lots of those spots. Same really goes for my other sire Rocky... he does look to have them, he is gold & white, but once clipped they are visiable. So I sort of stumbled unknowingly into the moonspots I get today. :thumbup:


my blue eyed buck has about 10 silver hairs.. at first i thought they were just a white spot.. but its a moonspot.. funny how these things are


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## Laurel_Haven

> BTW, Tina, do you know of any good websites that tell ALOT about moonspots? I have had alot of people ask me for more info but I haven't been able to find any :shrug:


You know Brandi, I haven't come across a good article yet that really gets in detail about moonspots. There is so much to learn about them and maybe now that they are becoming more and more popular someone will invest the time to study them more. Afterall it is a color trait that it popping up more than ever.

The facts I do know about moonspots (which correctly is actualy moon spots) has been passed on to me by another, so this much I do know: 
Moon spotting is presumed to be a dominant trait. That means one parent must have moon spots in order for the kids to have moon spots.
Now, there are cases where goats have produced moon spotted kids, and neither parent has apparent moon spots. In those cases, the presumption is that at least one of the parents is moon spotted, but the moon spot(s) on that parent are so small, or so insignificant, that they go un-noticed. Meaning it may just be one single strand of hair.
The genes for frosting and belting have nothing to do with moon spots at all. In fact, NO OTHER GENE has anything to do with moon spots. It is a separate gene. Moon spots can appear on a goat of any color or pattern, and can occur in conjunction with any other spotting factor, etc.
That is pretty much all I have been told about moonspotting. But they sure are nice to look at! :thumbup:


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## Crissa

This is a cool thread. I love spots. :greengrin:

So are Lyrae, Orion and Chase moon spotted? Or are they just spots?

What's funny is Lyric's dam and sire were BOTH spotted but Lyric has no "obvious" spots.
Lyric's mom. (in the middle)









And here's a link to her sire.
http://bar6diamondranch.com/Henry'spedigree.html


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## Amos

Thank you for clearing that up Tina! I have four does with moon spots so it will be interesting to see how the offspring turn out.


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## HollowbeadRanch

Thanks Tina! I knew I hadn't been able to find anything on it, but thought you might have come across something over the years. Like you said, maybe someone will do a study on them soon!


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## Haviris

Lyrae, Orion, and Chase are moon spotted. I love them! I'd like to have a brown spotted nubian!

It's true that one can have the smallest, almost invisible spot, and throw kids that are covered. I have a black nubian wether, both parents are heavily moon spotted, Onyx appears solid black, but right along his spine he has a group of red hairs, probably about 10 and I've always wondered if that may actually be a moon spot, but since I wethered him I'll never know.


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## Crissa

Thanks Haviris! I love 'em. If Lyrae gives me another buckling I'll let ya know. :wink: hehe.


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## capriola-nd

> Moon spots can appear on a goat of any color or pattern, and can occur in conjunction with any other spotting factor, etc.


So, a white goat can have them? I have been told different things and read different things, so quite frankly, I'm lost on moon spots. I was told Leona doesn't have them, but I think she does, under her chin. It's a distinctly different color than her other "pinto spots." But what do I know?? :shrug: Her sire was heavily moon spotted but did not throw them as often to his kids.


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## Haviris

I'd love one marked just like Orion he's beautiful!

I don't know if a white goat can have them, I've been told no, but I'm wondering, why not? I think I remember you posted a pic of Leona's "possible" moon spot and I still say that it is!


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## KW Farms

I've found this to be a pretty good informational website... http://www.goatspots.com/moonspots.htm and the pictures are fun to look at! :shocked: Some of those goats have some VERY unique markings!


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## Amos

Capriola, the second doe on this site, is white based.

http://www.gallopingwindsranch.com/GWRgoats.html


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## jordan

I beg to disagree that an animal has to have them to throw them. I believe that if they are in the genetics, they can pop up from time to time. 
The pic below is of my buckskin that throws them. He has frosting on his muzzle and ears, a white strip by his right front leg and the white patch on his side. There is not even a few hairs of white, black or brown anywhere else out of pattern either in full hair or clipped down to the skin. His father is the same way.

[attachment=1:3sc0b2bd]tn_legend63007.jpg[/attachment:3sc0b2bd]

A white based animal can have moonspots as well. The doeling below has about 20 tan moonspots that don't show up well in this picture. She is out of black moon spotted doe and a white and red buck.

[attachment=0:3sc0b2bd]tn_pearl60108.jpg[/attachment:3sc0b2bd]

Though many claim that Brush Creek Russel (a com reg foundation buck of unknown parentage) was the first moon spotted ND, Sandra Mason of Brush Creek always said he wasn't and if I recall correctly, she said ND moon spots first made their appearance in the Caesar's Villa herd.

However they came to be, or however anyone wishes to explain them, I plan on just enjoying them when they show up  
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## capriola-nd

Nicely said Lois. 

I think they are a neat thing to have. . . . there are hardly any in our area, which is why I was kind of excited when I thought Leona had one. Hopefully she throws them to her kids!


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## jordan

Here is a pic of one of my all time favorite goats. His adorable markings couldn't hold a candle to his phenominal spirit!
[attachment=0:2cybco0j]tn_spot82905.jpg[/attachment:2cybco0j]
Isn't he the cutest?!!
Spot (yeah, real original!) was diagnosed at 4 weeks old with a severe heart murmur after a bout of pnuemonia (you could actually hear it when you put your head next to his side). The vet felt he could not possibly live past 3 months old. Spot was 16 months old when he died in my arms. There was never a goat so spoiled and babied every day of his life as this one!
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## capriola-nd

Oh, he is such a cutie!!!  I'm so sorry you lost him , it does seem he lived a very happy 16 months though!


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## capriola-nd

Oh, I forgot! You know what I've been thinking would be neat to do is to start a thread on Nigerian Dwarf genetics. The ones that go way back to when there were hardly any ND's around. I've heard some interesting things, that I had no idea about. How back then, there were not a whole lot of bucks, so they bred their does to whatever mini-buck they could find, pygmy-mix, etc. It's probably really dumb of me to find this hard to believe. . . . but it sounds logical. I've only been with the Nigerians a couple years, so do not know that much. Anyways, maybe I should start one, but not now.


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## KW Farms

Wow, Jordan...your buck looks a lot like mine. So sorry you lost him. Here's a pic of Leroy...Oh, by the way,,,anyone who is curious...I found out my guy's pedigree finally. He's the last kid to be registered with Brush Creek after Sandra passed. Still don't have his papers in my hand, but have the info...

Sire: CH Buttin'Heads Red Branch Legend *S (4 x GCH, 1 x RCH)

Dam: Brush Creek Beth


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## jordan

KW Farms said:


> Wow, Jordan...your buck looks a lot like mine. So sorry you lost him. Here's a pic of Leroy...Oh, by the way,,,anyone who is curious...I found out my guy's pedigree finally. He's the last kid to be registered with Brush Creek after Sandra passed. Still don't have his papers in my hand, but have the info...
> 
> Sire: CH Buttin'Heads Red Branch Legend *S (4 x GCH, 1 x RCH)
> 
> Dam: Brush Creek Beth


Thank you. I consider myself lucky to have had him as long as I did.
You have a nice buck there with an incredible amount of udder potential and I wouldn't let him go anytime soon if I were you!! He is half brother to my buckskin buck pictured above out of Red Branch (the sire who does not have moon spots but passes them to his kids). Red Branch is son to the legendary ARMCH Buttin Heads Wedding Song (17 x's best udder & 23 BOB). 
Beth is half sister to my doe Brush Creek Lilli. My doe Fall Creek Cinnamon is a grandaughter to Beth's sire MacBeth and her grandam is full sister to Wedding Song. If you check her out on my site, it will give you an idea of what your bucks lines can produce. 
Let me know if you need more info on your bucks background. I may even have a pic of Caesar's Villa Mae West (Beth's dam) somewhere around here... 
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## KW Farms

That is really neat! I would LOVE more info. or pics on anything related or grandsire/dam etc. That would be awesome. I haven't gone to deep into researching his bloodlines yet, but would love to if I got the time. I found his sire and dam, but that's about as far as i've got. Thank you!


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## KW Farms

I'm runnin out the door now, but will check out your website this afternoon. Thanks again!


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## capriola-nd

That is a really nice pedigree, Kylee!  Maybe I should be looking to you to add some moonspots to our herd! 

Did you find out the bloodlines behind your Twin Creeks buck?


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## jordan

KW Farms said:


> That is really neat! I would LOVE more info. or pics on anything related or grandsire/dam etc. That would be awesome. I haven't gone to deep into researching his bloodlines yet, but would love to if I got the time. I found his sire and dam, but that's about as far as i've got. Thank you!


Kylee,
You'll be able to put his entire pedigree together from my site since I have goats related to him on both the top and bottom of his pedigree. I have 5 generation pedigrees up but can go back as far as foundation stock on some of the animals. 
I love the Brush Creek goats and believe we lost a treasure when Sandra died. Meeting her made a huge impact on both me and my breeding program. She was a goldmine of information for both the history of the breed and the ND foundation animals. 
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## KW Farms

Wow, Jordan, you do have some big relatives on my buck Jordan. I will definately keep referencing to you site. Thank you so much. 

Olivia,,,,we should have lots of moonspotted kids next spring with NICE NICE lines and milking genetics and hopefully moonspots. I will let you know if we get anything you might want. We could always do a trade if ya wanted. :shrug: I'm just praying I get my papers from his previous owner before kids are born. ray: Cross your fingers. I don't have the pedigree info. on my Twin Creeks or gold bucks yet. Hopefully soon!


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## capriola-nd

A trade would be cool for me.  I like trading. . . . especially for more goaties!!  Yep, keep me in mind. I'll have to look at your site and see who is bred to him.


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## Crissa

Haviris said:


> I'd love one marked just like Orion he's beautiful!
> 
> I don't know if a white goat can have them, I've been told no, but I'm wondering, why not? I think I remember you posted a pic of Leona's "possible" moon spot and I still say that it is!


Well, I'll let you know if she has another one. :thumbup: (especially if you'd really be interested as I would love for someone on here to buy one from me. :greengrin: )


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## Haviris

Crissa, when is she due? I might really be interested! I would want to wether it, how much would you be asking for a wether? Oh, and I'd want to bottle feed, would that be a problem? (if you don't like to pull them, I understand)


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## Laurel_Haven

> I beg to disagree that an animal has to have them to throw them. I believe that if they are in the genetics, they can pop up from time to time.


I do not want to start an argument over this issue as you have a right to your opinion, but I have to disagree with your statement that they just can pop up from time to time. You have a lot of Brush Creek, Caesar's Villa, and Rosasharn in your lines which are all known to carry moon spots, it can be the goat has ONLY ONE HAIR that is effected by the moon spotting gene. And it could fade over time blending into the "normal" hair color, hence it could go unseen. BTW Jordan - you have some excellent genetics in your herd. :thumbup:

Dr. Sponenburg, the genetics expert, says moon spots ARE dominant. Meaning at least one parent must have them to pass that trait on. So I just can't see them popping up. If so we would see a lot more of them then what we do now.

As for the moon spots on white color this is what I have learned:
Moon spots can be on a white goat, but it depends on what type of white the goat is. That will depend on if you can see the spots or not. 
A white goat can be several things. 
1- It can be white from the gold family, in which case it isn't really white, but such a light gold or cream that the goat looks white. These goats can have moon spots. When they do, the spots are usually very very pale. 
2- The white can be "saanen white", or pure white. I've never seen moon spots on a saanen white goat. I am not 100% sure if they can have moon spots or not. I would think they could have moon spots, but it's probably a rare occurrence. Saanen white really restricts the lay down of color pigment, so any type of spotting has a hard time coming through. 
3- The white goat can simply be a white spotted goat, but with so much white it covers the entire animal. White spotting is like paint that is spilled on the goat. It isn't really the goat's color. There is a true pattern or color underneath the white spotting. Moon spots will not appear in white spotting. The goat could be genetically moon spotted, but the white would be "laid on" AFTER the color and pattern, so you would not see the moon spots. You sometimes do see round spots on white spotted goats. If the goat is moon spotted, in order for you to see the moon spot it would have to appear within a patch of "true" color.

All of the animals shown in this topic are beautiful... aren't those moon spots gorgerous! 

Crissa - Do you ship? I have one spotted Nubian doe but am looking for another doe as a companion for her and for milking... I too would be interested in a DOE kid like Orion or Chase.


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## Crissa

Well they should all be due around March. It depends on if they took. I'm pretty sure they did since I haven't seen anyone in heat again. 

Haviris~ I'd be willing to wether one. I don't mind pulling him either as long as you would be for sure getting him soon, as I do have school and everything. I don't know how much would be fair on a wether though let me think about it for a bit. (it wouldn't be too much though) EDIT: I would say $30 for a wether? Are you wanting one SPECIFICALLY out of Lyrae or just a spotted boy? Lyric may have a spotty boy too (as she is bred to Orion) and I'd be more willing to wether one of hers than Lyrae's. It's not horribly important though since I do have Orion out of Lyrae though. 

Laurel_Haven~ I've never shipped before but I'd be willing to try it. Lyric and Lyrae are both bred to spotted bucks and Lyric's sire and dam were spotted so I'm hoping to be getting lots of spots but I am reserving the right to keep Lyric's doe kid for sure if she has one and possibly Lyrae's too. (I'm not for sure on Lyrae's though this year I think I may wait until I get a new buck to keep a daughter) If they have twin doe kids I will definitely be selling some. lol I wish I knew what they were having now! 

Lyric is bred to Orion and Lyrae is bred to Chase. Would you be wanting papers with them or not? lol Now I'm excited! :greengrin:


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## Laurel_Haven

Crissa - I was browsing your site and see that you test yearly, fantastic news for me, as that was a big factor. Now we can proceed... I would love to have a doeling that looks like your Lyrae. I know I am not supposed to buy for color, but I can't help but love the looks of that doe and I do have one Nubian doe that is also spotted but much darker in color...








So if I am going to get her a Nubian companion I want her to not only have a nice mammary system but also to be flashy like our Twilight. I will be breeding MiniNubians in the future so genetics are important too. I do like the udder on Lyrae although it is a bit lopsided,(was she nursing one kid at the time)?
But to answer your question, Yes I would like her to be registerable. Will this be possible?
If so and if you think you could ship I would be happy to reserve a doeling from you. Just send me a pm and let me know what is required. :thumbup:


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## Crissa

pm sent! :greengrin:


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## jordan

Laurel_Haven said:


> I beg to disagree that an animal has to have them to throw them. I believe that if they are in the genetics, they can pop up from time to time.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not want to start an argument over this issue as you have a right to your opinion, but I have to disagree with your statement that they just can pop up from time to time. You have a lot of Brush Creek, Caesar's Villa, and Rosasharn in your lines which are all known to carry moon spots, it can be the goat has ONLY ONE HAIR that is effected by the moon spotting gene. And it could fade over time blending into the "normal" hair color, hence it could go unseen. BTW Jordan - you have some excellent genetics in your herd. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I certainly don't wish to argue either! I think we are actually saying nearly the same thing. Bottom line is they have to carry the genetics to pass moon spots, whether it is a single hair that blends away (which I think boils down to the same genetic thing anyway) or spots galore!
We all agree that we love and appreciate them and that is enough for me! Personally, I've never cared to deeply about the why's and wherefore's when it comes to color genetics. By not analizing it too much, I can just continue to look at each new baby as a present and to be in awe of what my ND's produce each year. 
Thank you very much for your kind words about my goats! I appreciated these bloodlines early on and really like how we've been able to build on these solid foundations.
Lois 
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## Sonrise Farm

Thanks everyone. . . . . . .


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## Laurel_Haven

Crissa - Got the pm, thanks!  

Jordan - I totally agree! :thumbup: 

Sonrise Farm - You are very welcome! :wink:


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## Haviris

Crissa, that sounds like more then fair! Let me think it over alittle, I see your alittle farther from me then I thought you were (about how far are you from OKC?). I wouldn't ask you to pull a kid unless I was 100% sure I could do it, so I will let you know in plenty of time. And no, it wouldn't have to be out of Lyrae, I'd take any little spotted buckling/wether.


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## Crissa

I'm about 20 minutes from OKC. :wink:


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## Haviris

Well that's not to bad, at this point I will say if nothing happens between now and then I am definately interested in a spotted buckling/wether kid!


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## Crissa

Okay, I will let you know if I get one. :wink:


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## SmithurmondHomestead

This is an old thread I dug up doing a little research. Just though I'd post that I own a doe (Brush Creek Sandra's Honor) by Red Branch Legend out of Brush Creek Honor. She's due in about a month and this will be her first kidding with us. 

She's bred to my buck who's sire is a Caesar's Villa buck and heavily moonspotted and his dam (an Echo point doe) is also moonspotted though they aren't heavily expressed. My buck has just one, about the size of a small egg. Sandy's a buckskin and doesn't appear to have any moonspots. It'll be interesting to see if the kids have them!


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## TinyHoovesRanch

I have a doe with ONE moonspot haha and you can only see it when her hair is short, if shes really fuzzy you cant see it

I LOOOOOOOOVE moonspots! Im hoping to get a couple nigis with more moonspots!


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## WalnutGroveFarm

I had a buck that was so heavily moonspotted that people where trying to say he was a nubian/nigerian mix. I knew better but you know you cant tell some people they know everything. Here is a pic of him.








His owner was very suprised when I took him home and shaved him cause she didnt know all that was under his hair. 
Here is his daughter that I kept she is special to me cause I lost her mom.







But I just thought I would share.

Edited: to add she is bred for may kids and Im curious to see if she will throw all those moonspots.


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## ohiogoatgirl

beautiful spots everyone!
i'm so in love with spots now!
anyone near harrison county, ohio?!
MuSt HaVe SpOtS!!!!


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## TinyHoovesRanch

WOW VERY PRETTY!!!

Ohio is far from cali right? DARN lool


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## 4hmama

I've got 4 moonspotted does that are bred, to blue eyed bucks... Let me know if you want to see more pics or pedigrees....


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## WalnutGroveFarm

Yes Laura it is but im willing to learn how to ship. I got moonspots and she of course is bred to a blue eyed buck. lol But jk with you.


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## TinyHoovesRanch

I wish...lol...Im very tempted!!

Shes gorgous!


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## WalnutGroveFarm

Thanks I think so to.


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## Sunny Daze

I have two moonspotted bucks I am used this year so am very eager to see what I get out of kids. One is light gold with moonspots, the other is black and white with moonspots. Kids starting in March. Can't wait!!


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## Haviris

I think a moon spot can be so tiny and minimal that it can easily be missed, especially on a really flashy colored goat. This is my newest nigi doeling, out of a moon spotted doe,








Not sure if that's a moon spot or not, definately could be, and I could for sure see it blending as she gets older, that's the only spot she has and if it darkens (or lightens so much it appears white), it may be really hard to believe she's moon spotted unless she throws some spotty babies.

I tried to find a pic of the most heavily moon spotted kid I've ever had, but can't find it, here's a few others I have/had, nubians and nigerians,
my Henryetta, who chose not to pass these on to her first baby (even though the baby's dad also has moon spots),








I'd LOVE to have another one like this boy!

























Then I've had a few that have thrown me for a loop, these are littermate sisters, who's parents were not moon spotted as far as I know, their dad was a flashy gold and white so 'could' have sometime hidden that I missed, but didn't have any other moon spotted kids, their mom was black w/ white markings, harder to hide on, these are the only kids I got from her,
This one looks like my new kid's spot, and this doe is the one that threw the spottiest kid I've ever had, BUT her sire was also moon spotted, 








And this one you could not see until she was shaved, (I lost her at 6 months, so didn't get any kids our of her)


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## WalnutGroveFarm

Really pretty pics. love all the moonspots.


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## Dunfactor

I also LOVE moonspots  and have a moonspotted doe bred to freshen in March. I cannot wait to see what she gives me! I am really hoping that she has a polled moonspotted doeling for me to keep. :wink:

Java has silver moonspots and brown moonspots. The larger spots on her back and side have a neat silver tone.

Clipped pics from Sept.


















Java in her fuzz ball winter glory. ;-) 


















Come on moonspotted polled doeling(s)!

Tracy


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## TinyHoovesRanch

OH MAN!!!! I kinda hate you all right now!

I want MOONSPOTS!!!! Im hoping to find a nice one near me....Hopefully someone will want to trade babies!


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## 4hmama

Here is my June Baby - Bella She is COVERED in moonspots - including the one that covers 1/2 of the right side of her face!



















Bella's 1/2 sister, Autumn - she has 2 very small chocolate moonspots on her head, but may have spotted babies in the spring.










And a pic of one of my other moonspotted girls - Luna - (from last spring) 









My blk/chocolate moonspotted doe - Caesar's Villa SENS Sweetheart - is Bella and Autumn's mama... and my other blk/chocolate moonspotted doe - Dolly's Acre Bonnie Blue (from Liz's farm), Autumn and Luna, are all bred to my blue eyed buck, Lego, for spring kids. Could have a crop of blue eyed, spotted babies!


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## SmithurmondHomestead

Dunfactor- your doe looks very similar to one of mine! She's also a ff and due next month. Here's a link to her picture as a 6 month old:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 2121352777


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## TinyHoovesRanch

I LOVE THEM ALL!!!!

You guys are so lucky!

Time to go take a pic of my doe with ONE moonspot lol


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## Dunfactor

SmithHurmond,

Awww, what a pretty doe. I LOVE those blue eyes up against her dark face and of course the moonspot. :greengrin: :wink: 

I hope you get some lovely moonspotted doelings with blue eyes when she freshens!

Everyone has such pretty goaties. I LOVE the moonspots. :drool:  

Tracy


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## Dunfactor

TinyHooves,

You KNOW you NEED a goatie (or two, who is counting?) with lots of moonspots...... *enable, enable* :shades: 

Tracy


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## TinyHoovesRanch

YOUR SOOOO RIGHT!!!

Im hoping to get a couple, cause I REALLY want some, I love spots!


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## RowdyKidz

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the moonspots!!! I want one sooo bad!!! :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: 

They are all very beautiful everyone!!!!!


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## TinyHoovesRanch

Ok fine... will drive to Ohio and bring you a moonspotted blue eyed doe with wattles bahahahaha


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## WalnutGroveFarm

Now RowdyKidz you live right here in Ohio with me. You cant be that far from me. I might even be able to meet you somewhere. lol


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## RowdyKidz

I'd LOVE to smuggle one home... Would even take a wether!


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## nigerianmeadows

I love this discussion and the pictures! You guys are too much fun


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## MrKamir

Would you say she has moonspots? My husband says she looks like a dairy cow. :roll:


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## nigerianmeadows

wow! Love her though!


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## KW Farms

I don't see any moon spots on her MrKamir. She is pretty though.


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## MrKamir

So no such thing as black moonspots? I have a solid black doe that keeps throwing out these spotted does. None of her bucklings come out this way.


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## kelebek

She is a broken buckskin with white overlay .....

Here is a picture of a true moonspotted doe - Wicked -










and her doeling - Witchcraft ... I have some others to - as she has them all over her body - but the one on the back of the neck is the best to show


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## MrKamir

I'm so confused. :?


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## kelebek

Baahahah - now that I swapped out the udder pic for the pic I really wanted to show you .... LOL!


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## KW Farms

MrKamir said:


> So no such thing as black moonspots? I have a solid black doe that keeps throwing out these spotted does. None of her bucklings come out this way.


No, moon spots do not come in a true black. The kids you are seeing are probably not moon spotted either...the white markings make them look spotted, but it's not moon spots. The doe and doeling pictured are not moon spotted.

This website gives lots of examples of moonspotted goats: http://www.goatspots.com/moonspots.html

Your doe is just black and white. A moon spot is a colored (brown, tan, chocolate, creme) rounded/blobby spot on top of the goats color or pattern. A moon spot cannot be true white or black.

Here are a few of my goats that have moonspots. And the doe in my sig has a brown moonspot on her face. You can see the black buck has the big blobby spot on his back looks white when he's shaved, but his moonspots are orangy/tan when he's not shaved.


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## MrKamir

So I would have to shave down all my spotted does to see if they have these brown spots?


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## MrKamir

By the way, I have other colored does with brown spots on their coats. I have a white buck with brown spots.


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## KW Farms

No, you wouldn't necessarily need to shave them down. They're usually visibal just fine. Sometimes if you have a black goat with dark brown moon spots they're hard to see if they're really tiny, but usually you can see them just fine. 

Moon spots cannot be on a white coat since white is an absence of color. You can however have moon spots on a creme goat that looks white...but it's not actually white. OR, you can have a black/buckskin/gold/etc. colored goat with moonspots and then have white overlay with moon spots showing where the black/buckskin/gold etc. color would have been. I know that's confusing, but hopefully you get the point.

Post a pic of your buck and I can probably let you know.


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## Haviris

I think it's rare to have a nigerian or fainter w/ white moonspots, but I have had nubians w/ white moonspots, so I disagree with there not being white ones, never seen a black moonspot though.


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## KW Farms

Spread apart the fur on the moonspot, the skin won't be pink underneath if it's a true moonspot...white fur can only come on pink skin because the white is an absence of color or markings that will overrule any color or marking including moonspots, otherwise...even if it looks white, it is creme...yes, it appears white...but it's not called white when the skin isn't pink.


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## Haviris

I do understand what you are saying, this guy's skin color was a slightly lighter color then his black skin (more of a charcoal gray I guess?), but that doesn't change the fact that his hair was most definately white. 








So it seems alittle misleading to say a moonspot can't be white, seems like it would be more correct to say moonspots can't be on pink skin.


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## KW Farms

I know...I had a nubian buck that had "white" moon spots too. I didn't make up the terms for moon spots...just done the research on them...they didn't refer to them as white because the skin has to be pink to have a "true" white color coat. Like I said, I didn't make up how they chose to word the moonspot colors. 

It's kind of like a gray horse...some appear white, but they are called grey because of the skin color.
Here's the nubian I used to have...


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## Haviris

The difference in a gray horse is they weren't born white and you can see their gray hooves and skin in places. W/ a gray horse you can see the difference when you put that horse up against one that is truely white.

Like I said I do know what you are saying, I'm not sure there has ever been any 'true' research done on moonspots, just goat enthusiast that have put some pages together to help others learn to identify moonspots. I've pretty much read them all and understand the idea behind saying there are no white moonspots (although I hadn't thought about comparing them to gray horses).

In the grand scheme of things color is really not that important (unless it's a breed w/ a color standard), but it is fun and interesting, and I think people like to learn about it. And moonspots can be confusing enough w/out farther complicating things. For a newbie w/ a goat colored like mine or yours they may never know it's moonspotted because "moonspots can't be white". 

But then again, I also prefer to keep horse colors somewhat simple (but yet still recognize all the different patterns in their normal form), apparently they now believe that ALL white markings are some form of pinto. Well I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned a blaze is still a blaze, a star is still a star, and a tobiano can have these face markings w/out being called something else!


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## KW Farms

Quote: "But then again, I also prefer to keep horse colors somewhat simple (but yet still recognize all the different patterns in their normal form), apparently they now believe that ALL white markings are some form of pinto. Well I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned a blaze is still a blaze, a star is still a star, and a tobiano can have these face markings w/out being called something else!"

I completely agree with this. I was on a horse forum once saying this one horse was a tobiano (which it was) but it had a strip on it's face so there were a couple "color experts" saying it cannot be tobiano because of the white on it's face...I just gave up. Lol.


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## Haviris

I've seen that to, I think they're getting alittle carried away!


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## nigerianmeadows

It took me forever to figure out what moonspots even were, and when I did I don't even like most of them, just know they sell well. I like broad color patters, the moonspots on many goats make me dizzy, lol! I have ended up with a lot of them from a buck, lol!


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