# Bottlefeeding



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Okay, this is my worst nightmare--- bottlefeeding. Never done it before. Tried, but the mama's screaming drove me insane so I gave her her kids back. 
Is it easier for the doe if you never let her see the kids? Some breeders around here leave the kids with the dam for 8 hours and then take them away. How do you get the doe to stop screaming? Infant here!


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

Well, it's best to just leave the kid/s on mamma. But if there's some reason that you need to bottle feed ... I have a pdf printable/downloadable e-book about bottle feeding. It covers pretty much everything. Just go to http://lilpygmygoats.tripod.com and click on "Care & Management" ... then scroll down to the feeding article and below that you'll see the link for the bottle feeding pdf. 
Tripod has been having some problems, so if you have any problems viewing it, I can email it to you. Just send me your email address and ask me for my bottle feeding e-book.

But anyway, yeah, the mamma's gonna cry about it for a while possibly. It all depends on the individual goat how long it will take her to get over it, usually they cry for their kid/s a couple days when you take the kid/s away.

I've bottlefed lots of wittle goats, as well as fawns, bunnies, a calf, etc. So perhaps I can be of some help to you (I hope so), and everyone that I learned from my experiences, I tried to capture in my e-book. So do try to download it !


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## Julie (Oct 6, 2007)

I'll make it easier on ya ... I got it pulled up, so here's the direct link for the pdf 
http://juliesfunnyfarmlibrary.tripod.co ... eeding.pdf
Then you can save it to your computer, and/or print it.

Hope it helps !


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks, Julie!


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

I find it easier on the mom and kid if you remove the kid immediately. That way they don't know anything else but the bottle, and it's a lot easier to get them started on it.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I am a pretty firm believer of dam raising, but did have to pull a few kids this year for bottle raising. 

If someone contacted me to purchase a bottle baby, the kid had to be completely paid for before I would pull the kid. I would leave them on mom for 24-48 hours for colostrum and then would make arrangements for pick up of the kid AFTER they were taking the bottle regularly without an issue - usually 2-3 days.

Mom's will cry for their babies, especially if all the kids are taken away and they have no one to give the motherly instinct to. 

One thing I noticed with bottle babies (at least with the one that I kept) was that I had a really hard time getting him to eat hay or drink water - it took him a really long time for that and I had to put him "in the herd" and tell myself that he was ok out there and they would teach him. It was a long time for him to get the "I'm a goat" thing down 

If you have questions on how I do things specifically, please ask!

Allison


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## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

I agree with what has already been said--If possible it is best for the kids to stay with their mothers. It is much less stressful for both parties...and yourself as well. 

If this is not an option it's usually better to separtate the kids from their dam right after birth and bottle feed from the very beggining so there's less confusion for the goats. Of course the moms will cry (wouldn't you?) for a while, but if you are serious about bottle feeding, you have to stick to your guns for the wellbeing of the goats. It's stressful for them to switch back and forth...


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I have found the same thing Allison, my bottle babies have a hard time getting the hang of eating hay and grain, even drinking water. I think dam raising is by far the best way, now, my opinion could change... I do a partial bottle feeding to make our kids able to be without their dam for a few days if needed. Ask anyone who has purchased kids from us, our babies are F-R-I-E-N-D-L-Y!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I hear ya Muddy Creek! 

I have always raised mine as dam raised and they have been super friendly also. My little mooners was a dam raised baby, never ever had a bottle, and you would have thought that she was a bottle baby. I think it is alot to do with the interaction even if they are dam raised. I pick up my babies two or more times a day, carry them around, play with their hooves and ears, and legs. I even bring them out of the pen to get one on one play time with me and the dogs so that they are not afraid. Everyone has always commented on the niceness of my goaties. I personally think that alot of bottle babies are "overly" friendly and I don't like alot of them - but that is me - I don't like the "in your face" type! LOL!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I've never pulled babies at birth before. Always waited for them to get the colostrum. I don't normally pull babies for bottle-feeding unless it's necessary. We pulled a pygmy doeling at about a week old, not enough milk for triplets. Took her a while to get the hang of the bottle but we gave her Bach Flowers, Wild Oat, Rock Water, & Walnut, I think - Walnut is good for any change in life, Rock Water is especially good for goats (they don't like their schedules changed & are very rigid). Bach Flowers do nothing physical, so it does not affect any other treatments, etc. Only affects emotions. Rescue Remedy is a must for both momma and baby (for our goats anyways).

Leona I pulled at 5 weeks as there wasn't enough teats, enough milk but momma didn't have the patience for three kids fighting at her two teats. She had mostly learned to eat hay and grain. Put her with Lyla and Claribelle and she eats just fine. 

The little pygmy doeling we had a terrible time trying to get her to eat hay/grain. My mom actually put a piece of hay in her mouth to try and "show" her how to eat. . . . took forever. Only way we got her to eat was putting her with the other goats. I pick the nicest one and put them in a stall together. I don't like putting them in the main herd w/out a momma to protect them.

We try our best to feed real Nigerian goat's milk. If that's not possible, we mix whole cow's milk, whipping cream (or half & half) and Power Punch. That blend is about as close as you can get to the real thing.


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## Amy Goatress (Oct 2, 2008)

I agree with Julie, we only bottle feed if the Dam reject her kids or there is a multiple birth, we have had to bottle feed 1 of the triplets before and supplement triplets and left them on their Dam.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm bottlefeeding all my kids this year for sure because they are all going to be in February. next kiddings however, I am going to do partially dam raised and partially bottleraised.


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## rkalgren (Sep 22, 2008)

We bottle raised all of our kids, 2 singles and twins. But wait, they were humans, you guys are talking the other type of kids aren't you. My bad.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Bob . . . . are quite alright today? You look alittle pale in your avatar. (  ) Yes, we are talking about kids . . . .GOAT KIDS.


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## rkalgren (Sep 22, 2008)

It is all the breath holding from waiting for SDK's kids to be born. I will be better soon (physicaly there is no help for me mentaly).


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

That's what we all say bob . . .


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Talitha, 

Just out of curiosity, why bottlefeed when they are born in February. I am just curious.... not saying it is right or wrong - just wondering. I had babies that were born in January (during the big storm we had) and in early March (3 different mommas) and all did great outside. I just made sure that there were heat lights and what not in the kidding stalls and had little sweaters made from a sweatshirt sleeve!

There are other options then bottle feeding. If you need help or more ideas, please let me know


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I think I might try partial bottle-feeding w/ Lyla and Claribelle's kids as I want goat's milk. 

Allison, I'm curious what other options there are? Also, how do you do partial bottle-feeding? Separate kids at night from momma then milk mom in the morning and bottle-feed kids??? Or, how would u do that?


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Kids get their first meal from the bottle. Then you bottlefeed them multiple times a day. 
Allison: The reason I am bottlefeeding is because where we're at it is kind of cold in Feb. And I only have 1 kidding stall in my barn and everything else I am setting up is makeshift. But if it warmer that usual I am considering doing partial bottlefeeding. We do have heating lamps, and my barn is quite warm, but it would be a bit crowded in there with four goats, over 2 ton on hay and my dad's junk (in a 36 x 24 barn) so I just want to make sure the kids don't catch a cold or get sick or anything by being out in the snow. How do you make coaties?


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Yeah, but if they're drinking from momma too, they won't take the bottle (ours won't anyways) they're too full from mom's milk.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

well, ask Chelsey---- she does partial bottlefeeding.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

The only options for caring for the kids are:

Dam raising
Bottle Raising
Dam/Bottle Raising (have never done this, personally)

This is what I did last year with mine kidding all about the same time. 

I have 1 stall also, but it is a fairly large stall. I always put another "tame, friendly" goat in with them till momma was in active labor. If I was home then I pulled the companion - but most of the time the friend was in there for moral support. The doe and her kid/s were left in the kidding stall for a day or more, depending on if I needed the stall for the next girl or not. At one time I had 2 does and their kids in the same stall as they were all born at the same time. 

Within 24 hours and with their little sweaters - the kids did wonderful. 

I also live in much of the same climate as you - just a couple hours North of you - but I also live on the lake, so I get alot of the wind off the water, which makes it even colder - then with the snow that we had - I was hidden just walking out to the barn - LOL! Hubby had to snowblow a path for me that at one time was about 4-5 feet tall on either side.

Just a thought!

Allison


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

About putting another doe in for company---- I have caution you to watch them closely. Spirit went into labor and I put her best friend in with her, and Spirit actually attacked her. So I put Katie out. Spirit remained calm as long as I was in the pen with her. She'd start screaming if I left. Thanks for all the ideas! ~ Talitha


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I do hear your warning loud and clear :thumb: 

Thankfully I only had to do that twice last year, and now I have it set up where they can see each other between the boards and I can watch a little closer and am better at "predicting" when to seperate out!


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I only bottle feed if I have to. I have a doe due in Jan/Feb and it gets COLD in New England. I am planning on dam raising the kids. I also only have one kidding stall. Planning on sweatshirt sleeve jackets again for the kids. lol

I think Dam raised kids are much more mature and less clingy than bottle babies. 

I did teach Dawn's kids the bottle from the start since there were 4 of them and I didn't know if she was going to be able to make enough milk. It also made it easier on them when I had to put her down because of gangrene mastitis. They already knew the bottle so they just took it. They still cried for mom for a couple of days and I felt soooooo bad. 

If I do bottle feed I only feed goats milk. If that isn't available then I use whole cows milk. I wont use replacers since I had a bad experience with them.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree with you RunAround...ALL of my kids are dam raised, and having 4 kids born to 2 does in the single digits in February was no reason for me to bottlefeed...and I don't use heatlamps....ever. Mom keeps babies warm enough, though with the triplet does and single doeling born, it was my peace of mind that had me put puppy sweaters on them after I had them all dried off.....and I did use a supplemental bottle on the single doeling for a day or so til her young mama's milk came in. I'd rather have friendly kids by constant contact and handling as opposed to the "needy" kids that see you as a food source......everyone has their own way of raising their goats, I just prefer to let it be the "natural" way when it comes to the kids.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Before I had a "milker" goat I helped a friend out and took in her bottle babies. They were on whole cows milk mixed with buttermilk and condensed milk. I really did not like it and they would get upset tummies once in a while.

With the bottle babies from this year, I used my milker to supply their bottles and even when I sold 2 of the 3 - I gave them enough frozen goats milk to last all the way through bottle raising! I keep a pretty nice supply of frozen, just in case.

Liz - I agree - I am even having a hard time keeping my little Turner (who I love soooo much) as he is always in my face and trying to escape to be with us. It is really annoying. I like my goaties that come over for treats or to say hi and then go about their business. But that is me.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i have one bottle baby out of my entire herd, nad though i like her alot.. i hate that shes always in my face!

i do not like bottle kids


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## heavenlyhaven (Apr 17, 2008)

my babies were all born the first week of march this year and the temps for the first couple months of their lives were well below freezing
i had (since been replaced) a small 8x8 barn that i completely closed off and kept mommas and babies in 
i had little goat coats for the babies and everyone stayed warm and cozy

i am considering bottle feeding tillie's kids this year
she is a horrible momma but an awesome milker
i will wait and see what happens
this year she was a FF and had twins
she mothered one and rejected the other
i tried to bottle feed Angel but she would have NOTHING to do with it :veryangry: 
so we went out to pasture several times a day and held momma still so she could eat
Angel is half the size of Clover but happy and healthy...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I really dislike bottlefeeding, it's so much more beneficial to leave the kids on mom if possible. Are you sure you would have to pull them? In my opinion, it's very stressful on babies and mom by pulling the kids after they've nursed. Just a note, if you have 4 does bred and you're expecting to pull all the kids... and lets say they have 2 kids each...you will have 8 bottle babies on your hands, that's a lot of time and money to spend on milk formula. Even if you milk all the does I'm not sure that would be enough milk. It may be...just seems like A LOT of work. Our last bottle baby at 4 weeks old was drinking almost an entire coke bottle of milk. 

If you must pull them, I would nurse mom out and get as much colostrum as you can for the new ones and seperate them quickly. Try not to even let momma clean them off. If you can't do it that quick then mom will cry and cry, but eventually will stop. 

Anywho, again, don't really recommend bottle feeding unless it's the very last option. Good luck!


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

What about CAE prevention. I have read that it is best practice to bottle feed them.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

CAE preventative is a good thing - but IMO - the only reason to do CAE preventative is if you are concerned with CAE on your ranch. I personally run a closed herd and test yearly. I know for a fact that there is no CAE on my ranch - so it would be pointless for me to do CAE preventative bottle raising. Makes you wonder why so many do it if they truely have a clean herd.

Now there might be other "pros" to CAE preventative bottle raising that I am unaware of - so if there are - please let me know.

I would just think that if the goatie is not getting the raw milk from momma or another momma - and the milk is pasturized wouldn't that loose some of the antibodies and nutrients also??


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree with Kelebek on CAE prevention. You feed babies milk replacer, more likely than not they are going to have the doopies. I've had puppies die on milk-replacer and strive on goat milk. The only reason I want to bottlefeed is because I'm afraid of them getting cold and getting sick because of February weather, but I am considering turning my barn into a large pen.... and I am also scared of people shy goats, which is a pet peeve for me. =)


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Talitha - 

As my hubby would say "Goats have lived in the wild for 1000's of years without the help of humans - they will be fine!" 

Just have a couple sweatshirts available that you can cut the sleeves on and make little goatie sweaters out of and you will be fine. The barn with a heat light is an added bones. If you can be there when they are delivered to dry them off and get them toasty warm - that helps.

Remember I am only a couple hours from you and I am North - so I do understand how cold it gets here.

Now 90% of my kids were dam raised and not 1 was "human shy" because of being with the dam. I handle my kids daily, carry them around, and love on them. I also have many people who come by the ranch to love on my goaties (neighbors). I also teach them what peppermint horse candies are very early, along with getting treats on the milk stand so that they are not afraid of it.


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks, Kelebek . . . I still worry . . . I need to get a hold of myself . . . but i'm still chewing nails . . . next time they are all definitely going to be born in April/May and no earlier!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I found a picture of my Mooners in her sweatshirt!!!










And her in her jacket....


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## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

they are so cute! I have 3 siblings so we are bound to have some sweaters I can use . ..


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

We have no problems keeping kids tame when they are born in town. . . . they are ALWAYS getting loved on, played with, etc. . . . I have had a small problem keeping them as tame with the ones born on the farm. My cousin is very busy with school and helping care for all the animals that she can't spend as much time with them. But, for the most part, kids don't get too wild. 
I'm sure you'll be able to keep them quite tame. You're home-schooled, right? So you can spend more time with them than a lot of us probably could.


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

For our first kids - triplets, we kept them with their mom 3-4 days, then seperated for bottle feeding, as we needed her milk bad, and we were pretty inexpirienced and we read that if they're dam raised they'll end up alot less friendly than bottle-fed. 

Well, the two bucks became too dependant on us, and were ALWAYS crying for us, and were just was too clingy, they always wanted us, and if they seen a glipse of us on the other side of the yard they'd cry for us, the doe could really care less, and only wanted her real mom, and a couple times made her way back with her mom. 
Anyway, yeah we fed the milk replacer, the real expensive stuff was 'ok', but the other cheaper stuff was just disgusting if you ask me. 
So this year when Jenna kidded, we decided we'd leave the babies with her, she only had the one baby, so what he didn't drink we milked outta her anyway. He's nice and friendly and not in your face so it worked out nicely, except for weaning off..

At first he wouldn't stop crying for her, but then after a while he only cared about the milk even though he still ate normal food fine. We have the three does, including the mom, in a larger pen that takes up half our 'barn' (really just a larger shed but its still our barn, lol) and in half of the other part is for the baby, and they both have areas where they can go in and out, ect. Well we boarded up the fence between the does and him so he couldn't nurse through the fence, but we ran outta materials, so there was one spot where he could get his head through, and the mom would stand there just so he could nurse, even though we milked her twice a day, even at fourth months we're struggling to get him completely off milk because he finds ways to nurse, even if he gets his head caught!

As for heat lamps.. our shed/barn doesn't have electricity, so we have a cord running from the chicken house to the barn, and we have a heat lamp for light in there, and sometimes we'll have more for winter, like last year we had two for Annie in the kidding pen, because it was in the negatives (January). 
But with it that cold for so long she couldn't handle it, and died of pregnancy toxomia, even though she always had food for her. So now we're never kidding in winter months. EVER.

Anyway, heat lamps. We knew these people near us who had 16 goats, but they kept them in an empty grain bin, it was winter and the goats could go in and out (I'd say they werent prepared for kids by a long shot anyway), but they had heat lamps for when the does kidded, but they had boards seperating sections, or something, I've never seen it before the fire, but anyway, one board got caught on something, so I guess most couldn't get out, and one of the heat lamps fell and broke or something and caught on fire, and out of the 16 I guess only 2-4 goats got out, and the rest were burnt to death, and the whole grain bin like caved in and the metal melted and everything. 
ok that post was too long! lol


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Amos - 

I am so sorry that you lost your doe and that the other people lost so many of their goaties. That is always sad to hear about those type of things.

My Joy almost died right before I got her from Toxemia also after giving birth... lucky enough it was caught and she did wonderful through this pregnancy.

The best thing to consider is safety. Make sure that there is no way that the heatlamps can be pulled down, fall down, or the animals can get to the extension cords. This is very important!! 

I hope everything works out for everyone!!!

Allison


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Depends on when you take them and how you raise them. I've had a few bottle babies that I took at just shy of 1 week old. I bring them in the house and keep them inside for a week to severe the ties between dam and kid. Unless its an odd doe it works. Its always best to have other kids or goats around that the kid can learn from. I never keep just bottle babies together. I always put them with older kids or goats to teach them what to do. I haven't had any trouble getting my bottle babies to learn the water, feed and hay thing from the other goats. If they get a bit too dependant on the bottle I reduce the bottles. For example if I have a 6 week old kid who turns her nose up to the grain at feed time and just wants her bottle then I either change my bottle schedule to not be close to graining or I remove a bottle for a while. Doesn't take them long to figure out that its good stuff too.

Bottle babies are much easier to keep up with. They're quick to show changes by just not eating as much. Dam raise kids you don't know how much they're eating so those changes go unnoticed. Bottle babies can be such pests though. Underfoot all the time. I still prefer that over timid or downright wild kids.


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