# Cocci Stunted Meat Kids/Creep Feeding?



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm unhappy with the growth on some of the boer kids from last year's kidding. They did get dewormed with safeguard/ivomec sequence as needed based on membrane color as kids - typically at 6 and 10 weeks and then if needed. (yes, this is effective in my area.) This year I was considering doing a cocci preventative sequence using Di-methox but then saw that some people use cocci-preventative feed instead. I typically creep feed Calf Manna but was considering using the feed below. I know I should do fecals instead to get cocci counts but haven't worked my way up to that yet - how often do you do fecals on growing meat kids? Any input or just telling me what you do would be great.

P.S. the protein & fat content of this are comparable to calf manna BUT I think there is something wrong with the feeding instructions...

* Central Conn Cooperative​ Farmers Association​ 20% GOAT STARTER PELLETS​ 496-01​* Kid Starter​ For the prevention of coccidiosis in young goats caused by Eimeria christenseni and Eimeria​ ninakohylyakimovae. Feed at least 28 days during periods of exposure or when experience indicates​ that coccidiosis is likely to be a hazard.​ ACTIVE DRUG INGREDIENT​ Decoquinate ................. 18.0 g/ton​ _____________________________________________​* GUARANTEED ANALYSIS​* Crude Protein (Min) 20.0 %​ Crude Fat (Min) 3.0 %​ Crude Fiber (Max) 9 %​ Calcium (Ca) (Min) 1.2 (Max) 1.6 %​ Phosphorus (P) (Min) 0.4 %​ Salt (NaCl) (Min) 0.40 (Max) 0.90 %​ Selenium (Se) (Min) 0.54 PPM​ Vitamin A (Min) 5,900 IU / LB​ _____________________________________________​* INGREDIENTS​* Grain Products, Plant Protein Products, Processed Grain By-Products, Calcium Carbonate, Cane Molasses, Liquid Fat, Ammonium​ Chloride, Salt, Calcium Salts of Long-Chain Fatty Acids, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A​ Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Mineral Oil, Cobalt​ Carbonate, Calcium Iodate.​* SUGGESTED FEEDING DIRECTIONS​* Feed at a rate to provide 22.7 mg per 100 lb. bodyweight per day along with roughage. Provide adequate clean, fresh​ water at all times.​ WARNING: Do not feed to goats producing milk for food.​ CAUTION: Do not use in feeds containing bentonite.​ LIMITATIONS: Feed Type C milk replacer at a rate to provide 22.7 mg per 100 lb (0.5 mg/kg) bodyweight. Feed at least 28 days during periods​ of exposure to coccidiosis or when experience indicates that it is likely to be a hazard. Type C feed may be prepared from dry or liquid type B​ feed.​ WARNING: This feed contains copper. Do not feed to sheep or other copper sensitive species​* 496DEC 3 10/31/2008​ Central Conn Cooperative​ Farmers Association​ 10 Apel Place​ Manchester, CT. 06042-8500
*


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I forgot to state that I also changed bucks to what I believe is a better growing line so that might make this year's kids better. Just always trying to improve my process!


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

"Liquid fat". Haven't seen that one before


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

I used Baycox since its so easy. Treat once then again in a week. Not sure how that would work for meat kids though. I don't know the withdrawal times.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I how do you do your creep feeder.....like you only put x amount per kid out??? I put grain out and make sure I refill as soon as I can when they run out.....if you did it that way you don't even have to think about how much to feed and if you start shoving them in young then they will naturally increase their feed on their on and keep themselves from getting sick.
Now as for cocci I had it last year too  my plan was to do the prevention as well as the med feed but most of my kids were born at once. So I made sure I went threw they joys of chasing all the little suckers down for 5 days when they hit 3 weeks but that's all I'm doing since they get faster : P but I made sure I did the prevention at 3 weeks because at that age they are only nibbling on their grain and I feel its not enough to really cover them. But if I didn't have so many to do I would do the 3 6 9 weeks as well as the feed.
As for the fecal I have no idea. I didn't have cocci in all my kids it was like 10 out of 90 something and by the time I realized they were not thriving like the others I treated but they still never did half as well as the rest


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

sassykat: I'll do some reading on baycox. I'm not familiar with it. But like Jessica stated - catching & treating dam-raised kids is no easy task for 5 days in a row every 3 weeks for di-methox so Baycox sounds like it could be easier. I'll have to check the meat withholding but since we raise them until about 6 months that shouldn't be an issue.

Jessica: I free-choice creep feed the calf manna so I would plan to do the same with this medicated feed. I wonder if they would OD on the active drug.

I hate pumping all the chemicals in to the kids but I also hate having wimpy boers compared to everyone else! Our herd is improving by leaps & bounds each year as I learn but I guess I think there is always room for improvement.

Kids started hitting the ground March 13 so we'll see how we do this year.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

The preventative in the feed isn't really a guarantee since you don't know exactly how much each kid is getting. They can still get cocci and you will need to treat it. 

I'll look into the baycox too

Web says 63 days cattle. 42 days sheep for meat

It says not to use in milkers or pregnant animals


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can also use DiMethox or Sulmet to do kid coccidia prevention.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I would use the creep feed instead of the manna. Worm and treat for coccidia every 20-21 days starting from 20-21 days old. Kids shouldn't be wormed when their eyelids start to pale, they need consistent worming and coccidia prevention until they are at least 8 months old.

I use a kid wormer the first two wormings, then I move to what I use on the adults.

You can use Corid, DiMethox, Baycox, Sulmet, Albon, whatever works for you for coccidia.

They will not OD on the coccidiastat in the pellets.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Well I found this great thread on Baycox (http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/452323-baycox-works.html) - apparently you can purchase it generic as well for slightly less but it's not sold in the U.S. so shipping may be more.

Unfortunately I've got a big jug of dimethox that I bought last year and should use up first!

Little-Bits: You worm and cocci treatment every 3 weeks-ish - no fecals and no matter the membrane color? I feel like that might be the best option for me but I would not do it all the way through 8 months except on keepers since some go for meat. But what is a kid wormer?


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

This is where I ordered from. Pretty sure they're in the US and mine was here within a week

http://horseprerace.com/toltrazuril/


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

You can get the generic baycox at horseprerace.com shipping is $8.

Yes, on my keepers they get wormed and cocci treated every three weeks regardless of membrane color, I do switch from baycox to corid or a sulfa after they are 3 months old though.. For kid wormers I use Valbazen mostly. 
If you bottle feed or lambar feed, you can also buy a cocci prevention you add to the milk daily. If you raise the kids yourself you can just add the cocci treatment of choice the the bottle(s)/lambar every three weeks.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

SalteyLove, not sure where you are located but Poulin makes a very nice 18% meat goat pellet that is medicated. I've been using it for about 10 months. I've been also feeding their 18% sweet to my does. 

I'm in the process of switching to CCC 18% lactating goat as I want to get away from the sweet feed (molds too quick here in spring/summer. I'm also switching to the 16% unmedicated for the bucks since it still has AC in it


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

SalteyLove said:


> sassykat: I'll do some reading on baycox. I'm not familiar with it. But like Jessica stated - catching & treating dam-raised kids is no easy task for 5 days in a row every 3 weeks for di-methox so Baycox sounds like it could be easier. I'll have to check the meat withholding but since we raise them until about 6 months that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> Jessica: I free-choice creep feed the calf manna so I would plan to do the same with this medicated feed. I wonder if they would OD on the active drug.
> 
> ...


I really don't think they can OD on it. I ended up keeping my stunted kids about a month extra and for that month I changed to noble.....which is like the feed you listed and feed it free choice and they lived. I really hate doing med. Feed as well but the ones that were stunted were a total joke com paired to the others. I think I would have been money ahead if I just gave them away when I seen there was a issue . But I've been feeding the medicated feed this year mixed with a little calfmanna and they are old enough to really dig into it and doing great. I see your from UK so I don't know if they have this but might not hurt to check. Its a medicated block for cocci.....my kids don't touch it but they are also freaks and won't eat pellets but you might have luck with it. 
I know the feed is not the ideal way to go to treat/prevent but right now I have 73 kids and I couldn't even think of spending my days chasing them down. It seems after the first dose of the 5 days they learn to run real fast when they see you lol


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Great - I'm really glad I asked all these questions. I better look in to larger bottles of my dewormers if I'm gonna stick to this for this year's kid crop!

Sassykat: looks like several local grain stores carry Poulin near me so I'll definitely check out the meat goat pellet compared to the CCC and/or Calf Manna - thanks!

Jessica: I'm not in the U.K! My user thing says New England - guess I should change it to Connecticut so I don't confuse people!

Now I'm dreaming of big boer kids parasite and cocci free


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow!!! I wonder where I got the UK from lol.....well pretend I never said anything about the uk ...OK


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are on the app, you can't see where people are from, unfortunately.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Most of the successful Boer breeders I know feed a medicated feed with *rumensin* in it for controll of coccidia. Your feed has another coccidiostat, Decoquinate. I'm not saying decoquinate doesn't work, but I doubt all these people use rumensin even though DQ is better, if you know what I mean.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Good point Tenacross. The Poulin brand recommended by sassykat (also in New England) uses the same (Decoquinate). I'll have to do some research on this. If I end up dosing them with Di-methox or Baycox it may not make a difference but if I depend on the feed it could. Thank you for catching that. We try to use local grain stores rather than chains when possible.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

My feed has rumensin in it and, so far, I haven't had a problem with cocci in my weaning kids. That is not a challenge, Lord!


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