# Ithma - due 1/14



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Our eldest lady is ready to do it again! Ithma is due on Tuesday and is looking close  She is our most experienced doe. She is around 5 1/2 years old, and has had 5 times <4 with us>. This will be her 6th kidding. She looks great, she seems to be feeling really good, wanting to fight with another doe which is so unlike her! 
She had triplets the last 2 years, but thinking she will have twins this time, but she could certainly have triplets. But usually with the triplets she was miserable and laid around most of the time late in pregnancy, she hasn't seemed as miserable, and isn't laying around all the time.

I don't expect doelings, she typically throws bucklings, so that's what I'm going to expect from her. Thinking market wethers for the kids.
She's had 3 does and 7 bucks for us. Last time was triplet bucklings.

Here's a pic yesterday of her wanting to fight with another doe through the fence. Don't mind the crazy hair on her neck, she was sticking her head through a cattle panel to eat on a roll bale lol


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Good luck with her! Watch, since your certain she'll give you more bucks, you'll end up getting something like twin girls LOL.
Make sure to post pics!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Good luck with her! Watch, since your certain she'll give you more bucks, you'll end up getting something like twin girls LOL.
> Make sure to post pics!


Yeah that would figure right? haha. That would actually be great, but I gave up on getting girls <or color> from her. Out of 10 kids we only got 1 red <buckling> and 1 paint <doeling>. If the doeling had been clean teated we would have kept her, she was really nice.

She gave my daughter a nice market wether last year, he was our county champion market wether. She's also the grand dam of my daughter's really nice doe, Wysteria <just posted about her in the birth announcements>.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good luck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ithma is due tomorrow! So far she's not looking very close, getting hollow around the tail head except for her ligs which are still very firm.

She still wants to fight with Star, so I can't let her go out in the main pen. We'd been turning her out in a side pen with Snow White/her babies, and in her kidding stall at night.
It's going to be a rainy/wet day, so nobody is coming out today, and I know she won't be happy about that. If we get a break, I'll get her out and take her for a walk when I get done running errands this morning.

Now I just hope she doesn't go overdue. Usually she does go overdue between 1-5 days. I think last year she did go 1 day early with her triplet bucks. Hubby thinks triplets, but I am not sure. Either 3 average size babies <most likely bucks>, or 2 decent sized twins. She is usually very miserable the last weeks when carrying triplets, and she hasn't been as miserable this time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Hopefully she will go sooner than later.


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

I have girl that was do yesterday also she is driving me nuts lol her ligaments are soft and she is hallowed out also


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

HoosierShadow said:


> I don't expect doelings, she typically throws bucklings, so that's what I'm going to expect from her. Thinking market wethers for the kids.
> She's had 3 does and 7 bucks for us. Last time was triplet bucklings.


Isn't it the bucks that determine genders?

She is I think my favorite doe you have candice


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes buck determines gender


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

She is looking very close, but not quite there. Her udder filled really well last night, ligs are gone, but I feel a hint of one on one side, she's starting to get the hollowed look, standing more & shifting weight. The way she looked overnight, I really thought she'd kid today. 
Biggest sign for her is she'll start baby talking a few hours before she delivers. No talking yet, just talking to me about food lol

It does drive you crazy especially when they go over their due date! But she usually does go 1-5 days over her due date.


They say it's the buck's that decide gender, and doe who decides how many. But I tell ya, I think with her she decides gender lol First buck she had 2 sets of twins - 1 doe, 3 bucks. 2nd buck she had 2 sets of triplets - 2 does and 4 bucks. So....what are the chances she'll have bucks again? Last year it was triplet bucks. I've pretty much given up on getting another doe from her  It would be a real nice surprise though, but no point in getting my hopes up 
Either way, she usually has nice bucklings, and they will be good market wethers for the kids/sell for 4-H hopefully 

Her udder really started filling last night though, it's not strutted, but very full. One side filled, and for a few hours it looked lopsided, couldn't help but laugh, although she didn't seem too amused lol


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Well whatever she has, they'll be adorable  
How is star doing?


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I read online..(can't remember where) that a doe also helped determine gender by her body temp??? That's why a specific doe can have multiple births over time with different bucks and be "prone" to one sex or the other. I will do some looking if I can find the article I will try to post it. It was very interesting.

It kinda confused me though because how do you explain a set of twins that are 1 boy and 1 girl or trips or quads that not all the same sex. :think:

I had a 8 year old doe on her *sixth* pregnancy she finally had 1 girl. Over the course of her breeding years with us she was exposed to 4 different bucks.

She always had twin bucks. She record showed 11 boys and only 1 girl.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I hope your doe kids soon  Maybe she's cooking some fancy spots on them 

The buck does determine the gender. Females have two X chromosomes and males have an X and a Y. So when the doe ovulates her egg will always have 1 X the bucks semen will have both X's and Y's. When the sperm reaches the egg, it takes thousands of them to penetrate the outer layer of the egg so that one can fertilize so it really ends up being a luck of the draw whether an X sperm or a Y sperm ends up fertilizing the egg. It is believed that the male semen (the Y's) are faster and die quicker whereas the female semen is slower and lives longer. So, many people believe that if you breed the doe earlier in her heat you can up your chances of having female offspring because the doe will ovulate at the end of her heat and hopefully by then all that is left is female sperm to fertilize the egg(s). The doe can play a role in the gender based on her pH. I can't remember which but one favors more of an alkaline environment and the other favors more of an acidic environment. The doe's reproductive tract is a very hostile environment to semen (partially due to the increased temperature and the different pH level) and lets say the male sperm favor an acidic environment, if she is more alkaline she will most likely always have doe kids because the males will die off before they reach the egg. I would say you can end up with various genders when the does pH is more neutral and not more hostile towards either gender of sperm.

I have not found that breeding sooner results in more doe kids, I've bred them earlier and bred them later and still get varying kids. I have had some does that will tend to have more does or more bucks and some that have an even number. A lot of my does will alternate and have bucks on year and does the next. Some people also believe that younger bucks produce more buck kids, but all the young bucks I've used usually threw more doe kids their first year.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow thanks for the information! 

Ithma is officially starting to get busy! FINALLY LOL I've been waiting all day. She has started 'talking' it's kind of a soft hum. Staring at the walls, concentrating, and I seen some stretching. I'll check on her about every 30 minutes just in case. 
Of course she had to decide to start laboring on one of the colder nights we've had since the brutal cold early last week.

Time to get my dental floss in my pocket, put some towels in a bag, find my spare gloves, baby wipes, and charging my phone so I might be able to attempt some kind of video or photos with it.


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

Oh I think I will check my girl just in case lol


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

goatgirl16 said:


> Oh I think I will check my girl just in case lol


LOL It would be funny if your doe is in labor too!

Ithma is pushing, she had a huge glob of white <plug> coming out, and starting to bare down pretty good. I had to come in and use the bathroom - warm up my feet! I'm turning the heat lamp on when I go back out whether there is a baby on the ground or not...my feet need heat lol


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ithma kidded! She had twin bucklings <what did I say? twin bucks? lol>.
First came around 11:05pm, and 2nd about 11:45pm.
It was a tough delivery for her, poor mama, but she did great and loves her boys ♥
First boy came out head first - no feet! He is a big boy, so she had to really work to get his shoulders out, after that he just slipped out. We got him going good, she worked on drying him I worked on cleaning his nose/mouth/face. He had a lot of thick yellowish goo on him, was very hard getting that off.

2nd buckling presented breech with 1 foot sticking out all the way up past his hock! I admit, I was very nervous about that! I have never had one present like that, so leave it up to Ithma to make sure she has babies in weird positions! Took her FOREVER to finally get busy and get the rest of him out! She pushed while standing up so I had to hold him up a bit so his cord/water sack didn't break until he was out enough to get his face cleared quickly <didn't want him swallowing fluid>. Once he was out, he was thrashing around like crazy! I've never had one do that before. 
He calmed down, I got his face/mouth/nose clean, swung him gently a few times, and mom helped get him cleaned up. He was very slow at first, poor baby that tight squeeze for so long must have really freaked him out.
He might walk funny on his back legs because of his presentation, but he'll be fine 

Both babies nursed well, 1st buckling has needed no help, 2nd one I helped as mom's udder hangs low and he was looking too high. 
Bellies full, both are in a box under a heat lamp with mom being attentive.

They are pretty good sized bucklings for her as she usually doesn't have very big babies.

Pics tomorrow, or uh, later today! It's 3am and I am heading to bed for a few hours! Kids get up at 6am for school.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

wow!!! congrats!!! scary about the odd positioning, but seems like Ithma had it all under control!


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

Congrats!!! My girl is still holding on to them babies!


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## Jezzie (Nov 12, 2013)

Awe! Congrats on the kids! Can't wait to see some pics!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Congrats! I can't wait to see pictures! And she is such a beautiful girl!


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