# I need HELP!!!



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

My oldest daughter is in the first grade and has shown interest in eventually starting 4h. I'm in Ga and I think our local one starts in the 3rd grade. Anyway we just bought our home a few years ago and we have an area that's about half an acre that could potentially be fenced in. This will be a while because we have no materials or funds at the moment. However I'm in the research stage to figure out exactly what we need. I am not sure on what breed is best. I would not want to spend hundreds on a registered goat at this point. I was looking and $200 or so might be ok but some were crazy expensive. Do they have to be registered? What all will I need? If someone had a book or something they would be willing to send me that would be awesome lol I'm so lost. Thanks


----------



## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

It will all depend on what your daughter will want to do and what is available in your area. Does your fair have market meat goats, a dairy goat competition, or something else? Will you want to travel to shows? If you search online for 4-H publications in Georgia, you will find information that you can download for free. I'm sure that people from the local extension office can also point you in the right direction for your area. Or...give your general location and maybe someone on here knows the answers!


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

Thanks I know there is at least one fair in ga that has those things. I will see who I can get in touch with.


----------



## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I have found that here in Maine there are goat farmers who are willing to sell registered goats at a discount to 4-Hers. Some will even GIVE a show goat to a child with the caveat that they must give the goat back to the breeder if they drop out of 4-H or stop showing. 

Of course, you have to have more than one. Perhaps you could get a discounted/free show goat and then buy a wether as a companion. Wethered dairy goats are usually quite inexpensive.

You can also lease a goat from a farm with registered stock provided that you show for them at the fairs. So check with the local 4-H extension office and with local breeders.


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

Ok thanks y'all have been a great help. Also how much monthly would you say it would cost to feed 2-3 goats. Just a ball park guess. We are a one income family with three kids so I'm trying to see if it's something we can afford as well. Rabbits are also an interest of hers as well so just kinda seeing what folks think.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Being new to goats myself, I have little advice on goats specifically. I do recommend getting everything ready for your new goats first. Good fencing, good shelter, feed dispensers, water system. There are quite a few expenses other than the goats themselves that you'll want to budget for. Although a bit larger, I worked over a period of about 6 months getting things ready for my 3 goats. It was nice not to have to worry about anything once the goats came and we could spend the time just getting to know each other.
I don't know much about 4H, but from talking to people at local fairs, it seems the rules can vary somewhat from one 4H group to another. Some are more lax about horns than others, for instance. So definitely get in touch with your local 4H first.


----------



## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't have kids still home, so I know absolutely nothing about showing, 4H and all that, but I'm a big advocate of reading. I picked up a little book at Tractor Supply several years ago that was a great intro to goats in general (something like "Raising Goats" I think), written to perhaps a 10-year old's level. It talked about meat goats, fiber goats, milk goats...then briefly discussed the various breeds in each category. It very simply discussed care, shelter, diet, breeding and showing. (I loaned it to a "weekender" neighbor child & now he has made his parents "promise" that when they finally retire from the city to the land they bought next to our farm, they will get goats!) I would expect your extension agent might be able to direct you to some resources. Plus your local librarian and some of the breed clubs or breed registries might be able to suggest books and other resources that might help not just you, but your daughter, begin the learning curve. Best wishes to you!


----------



## Serenity Woods (Apr 2, 2012)

Where in GA are you? You might want to see if you can find someone nearby that will let your daughter spend some time with their goats. Let her see what it's like to care for them before you make an investment in goats. Hopefully, she'll love them, but if not, at least you find out early.


----------



## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

*You can see if there's a goat rescue group in your area. Maybe their goats wouldn't cost much to adopt.*


----------



## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

Goat rescue might work but read their adoption application or contract first. The two goat rescues where I live have a "no breeding" clause. I don't know about 4h specifically but my local shows require does over 2 years to be in milk at the time of the show (usually a summer fair) and if you can't breed her, she can't give milk.

Although, I have heard of 4h programs that are more focused on a project involving goats than the goats themelves. I read that one class is something about pack goats and one involves cart/driving goats. Those might not require registration and would more than likely use wethers so they would be cheaper to buy or easier to find in a shelter. +1 on contacting your local 4h club for rules and programs. You might even consider taking your daughter to a show or two and meeting some kids and parents in your local club. They could probably provide more specific information.

Rabbits would probably be cheaper but, in my opinion, a lot less fun and less work. Less work might be better considering your daughter's age (if she will be the one looking after them), or cleaning the goat shelter, feeding and watering the goats, and preparing them for shows might be work that will get her out of the house, keep her occupied and entertained, and foster responsibility. You know your child best and what she can handle. If, however, she looses interest over time, you'll have to decide if you'll keep the animals and care for them yourself or rehome them.

After all initial purchases, the monthly cost of keeping goats mostly depends on the cost hay where you live. Goats do eat browse but still need something to eat when the browse runs out or winter comes and it's all dormant. My feed costs just about triple in winter. If you get a doe, you'll also probably want some grain for when she's in the last couple months of pregnancy and when she's lactating.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/pack-goats-are-they-the-best-pack-animal#gs.0Rbi8uU
^this piece on pack goats estimates an annual feed cost of $300 per goat. To be fair, that doesn't take into account where you live or what other food sources are available so ymmv. You can check with your nearest feed store on hay prices.

When my family got goats when I was growing up (2nd or 3rd grade), the book Your Goats: A Kid's Guide to Raising and Showing by Gail Damerow was great. I dont have it anymore but it's pretty widely available. At that time, our two oberhasli does produced so much milk and we liked it as much as cow milk. We all but stopped buying milk from the store so if you're looking for ways to justify the expenses of goats, there you go.

Also, goats can be taught many fun tricks! As far as intelligence goes they're considered >= dogs, but definitely think differently.

Good luck!


----------



## ForeverBoerd (May 3, 2017)

It’s great to see younger kids so interested in goats! Here are a few suggestions I have: 

Things to consider: unless it’s a requirement at the shows you plan to attend, you definitely don’t need a registered goat. This is more of a thing for people who plan to show at large-scale shows or breed their goats and sell the kids for a high price. Also, unless you have other animals you know will keep th goat company in the same pen it’s best to get at least two.

You could get a market wether which you could raise, show, and then sell after the fair. Our county fair (are you thinking of just showing at the county fair?) has a market sale for all the market animals on the last day of the fair. This option may be kind of emotionally harrowing so it’s not really my number one suggestion when it’s a first time goat owner and you’re only going to have two or three goats, but it will gaurantee that you’ll only have to pay for expenses for a few months.

You could get a couple of does, either kids or adults. Younger goats tend to be cheaper and it’s easier to bond with them, plus they’re hilarious to watch when they play! These would be more expensive in the long run as goats can live up to 18 years (!)

I don’t have a lot of experience with breeds as we only have Boer goats, but the boers we have are incredibly sweet and great mothers if you ever plan on breeding. Since this is your first goat-owning experience I would recommend getting a meat breed, though I suppose you don’t have to breed and then milk a dairy goat if you get one. Boer goats do get pretty big (our does are between 150 and 200 lbs) so you do have to be careful not to get a pushy one, or if you get a kid, never to encourage pushing or jumping on people, no matter how cute it is when they’re little, which is advice that applies to all goats, not just boers.

It’s also very possible that there is a family near you who already has goats and would be willing to let you lease one to show if you’re not ready to commit to owning a goat for the rest of its life and don’t want to sell a wether to market after you’ve grown attatched. We have a few families that do this where we live.

As far as tricks go, Deborah is right! I have a couple goats that I’ve taught to shake, jump up on their hind legs, jump through a hoop, and follow a target stick, so there are all sorts of fun things to teach them!

For supplies I would reccomend a hay bunk, secure fencing they won’t get their heads caught in (horned goats tend to go through an awkward “teenage” stage where their horns are small enough for them to get their heads through the fence but too big to pull themselves back out, especially with cattle panels), a feed trough or a feed pan for each goat, hoof trimmers, shears (wethers have to be sheared to show at our fair), collars and leashes (we’ve found these work better than halters, but it also depends on the face shape of the breed), a salt block, and loose mineral.

Hope all goes well for you! Good luck!


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Lots of great info and advice.

I would contact your county 4-H Leader and ask about a goat or livestock club, and get information on what your daughter can do. Ask about dairy and market classes, and opportunities and decide from there which breed suits you the most.
We could all chime in and give good advice, but every state and some counties are very different in how they do things.

I'm in KY and here, the main goat 4-H project are market wether and commercial does. Kids who are not yet old enough to be in 4-H are considered Cloverbuds = Novice. 
Here, Novice can show a market wether or commercial doe in Novice Showmanship & Market classes. 
The fun thing about our state is you can show in surrounding county fair shows, your not limited to just your county. There are also Dept. of Agriculture shows that lead up to our state fair in August.

A majority of the shows here are market/commercial, registered Boer, and Dairy. So no pets, or things of that sort.

Some of the shows here are open shows, meaning adults/youth can show together in the breeding/dairy classes. 
So, there is no age limitations for kids to show with the exception of making sure they can handle their animal. 

My kids love showing Boer goats. My oldest 2 kids have been showing in 4-H since 2011 (my oldest recently graduated & aged out of 4-H  ). 
My youngest started showing when she was 5 in 2012, she started with a market/commercial doe. Since then she shows at least 1 market wether, and 2-5 breeding goats. 

Again, get information and decide which way you want to go. Even if she waits until she is old enough to join 4-H, it's good to get a head start


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

Thank you all so much. Unfortunately our local 4h doesn't offer much that I could see on their web site. However the ga dairy goat association seems the be the route we were looking at. We love the boer goats looks but they are very high priced from what I have found. Does anyone with a knowledge of construction know how much it would cost in materials to build a small pole barn?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I think my 6'x8' cost $300 in materials.


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

Ok thanks I was thinking of trying to use recycled material but unsure on where to find it. I wanted to build something small but my dad who builds stairs for a living wants it to have storage and a loft ect but I'm sure that would cost quite a bit lol


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Ours is really simple. It was an excellent starter shelter. I can get you some photos if you want.

We do have an old building on the property perfect for hay storage though. You will have to think about where to store hay, a lift might be the way to go.


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

I had thought about getting an old storage shed but unsure. I'd love to see photos.


----------



## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

If you get pygmies or dwarves you could use large dog houses or crates covered in tarp for shelter. You might be able to find them for a good price on Craigslist. A dog house or two might even work for standard breeds if big enough. Hay storage will be something to think about, though. You might try a canopy with sides (intended for car/boat storage?) for the hay as long as the ground underneath wouldn't flood. If you build anything with a hay loft, I would think it would be fairly expensive, partially because the loft would have to support quite a weight. 

My dad and I built an 8'x16' barn out of recycled 4x4s, 2x4s, 2x2s, 2x8s, 4x8s, corrugated metal panels, and new paving stones and plywood. We split it down the middle for two 8'x8' stalls: one for hay/supplies storage and one for the goats. We started it for oberhaslis, ended up selling the obers, stopped construction for 10+ years, then resumed when we got Nigerian Dwarves so I don't have exact numbers for cost but I'm certain it was not the cheap, budget project my dad thought it would be. He was originally planning for a dirt and paving stone ground and a one foot gap at the bottom of the walls. I really don't know why he thought that would work because that ground (mud) is mere inches above the water level and it rains all the time here. If I hadn't talked him into a raised floor, the goats would be swimming.


----------



## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

If your children are interested, what breeds are they interested in? I'd highly recommend looking up breeders of whatever they're interested in, and giving them a call. Ask to come and visit. Imho different breeds have different temperaments, different "feels" to them. We owned a number of different breeds before finding the "right" breed for us; much easier if you can start there! Contact the 4-H leader and explain where you're at, that you're at the research phase, & what your situation is; our leader actually keeps goats for children to show, if the children don't have the set up yet or live in the city, etc., but I'm quite sure she doesn't post that kind of thing, so there may be lots more resources than is apparent on the site. The 4-H coordinator or leader may also be able to connect you with farms and families that have different breeds for you to visit. 

Not only does that help you spend time with different breeds without the expense of trying each one out, but that also allows you to see their set ups and get ideas of what works in your area, while you're still in the planning phase before you begin to build yours. In regards to Deborah's suggestion of dog houses, I second that. At least in our area, calf huts with some kind of windproofing (mine have stall mat installed over the door, slit up the middle and 6" above the ground) do a really nice job for larger goats, as well as truck caps deeply bedded and windproofed, hay bales blocking the front except for a little door, that kind of thing. Though that does up the "hick" factor a bit, lol...

I think it's awesome that your kids are interested! And fantastic that you're taking the time to research what you need before jumping into it. I know if I were in your area, I'd invite you out to spend an afternoon in a jiffy . One more thing: as you become more aware of how you'd like to raise your goats, it makes life easier if you purchase your goats from a farm raising theirs in a similar way, and even if you have to spend more to do so, it would likely save you money in the long run. Again, in my humble opinion; worth price charged!


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So much for you to think about already. I'm sorry to add one more...

Part of your decision must take into account what your future plans might be. When might you be moving? How will what you build affect the value of your property? How "recycled looking" will your neighbors appreciate? You mention of half an acre brings to mind you might have close neighbors. 

If your neighborhood already has livestock, what livestock will your next buyers appreciate being able to move in? (That might affect your choice of fencing and building design.) Pigs can live almost anywhere horses can live, but not the other way around.

I strongly second finding someone local who could allow your child to have some hands-on experiences, as suggested above. That was a great idea.

One last thing. Find out if you have a local vet who will see goats. Many will not. If he/she does, find out something about his/her fees.

Welcome to the world of goats.


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

I know we have a local vet down the Rd that does house calls. We own our own home in full, so I doubt we will move. Our neighbors do not care at all we once had a rooster lol and the neighbors said they loved to hear him crow lol. We are also zoned agriculture as well so no worries there. We just own a lil over an acre, that's with the house and everything, that's why I said half an acre.


----------



## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

I was a bit worried about my neighbors when we got goats again but the whole neighborhood just loves them. One guy came up to the fence while I was working in the yard and told me we had "brought joy back to the neighborhood".

Something else you should think about (it's a lot, I know) is predators in your area. Any wild ones like coyotes or wolves, but also stray dogs can pose a significant threat. If you choose to breed you should also have a plan for hawks, large, feral cats, and big racoons that might go after a little one.


----------



## Newtot (Dec 9, 2017)

We do have coyotes. Nothing really comes around, our dog keeps them run off.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Everyone has great advice.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

We had great teachers....


----------



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I definitely recommend talking to people vs. reading a website. There just isn't a lot of information on showing IMO. Look at what breeds show well in your area. I know around here for example, it is super hard at the county fairs for the smaller dairy goats to do well against the standard size dairy goats. Nubians, Alpines and Saanens are the popular dairy goats I see at our county fairs and state fair.

As far as Boer goats go, the show quality goats are expensive, but if you shop around you can find good starter goats, and might be able to get a deal on a couple with the right breeder. Just have to shop.

As for building a barn, look into building with pallets! I've been a stay at home mom over the years with a small seasonal type side job so our budget is usually tight. When we got our first goats in 2010 we built a 12'x16' barn out of pallets, OSB siding and a good roof. We've added onto it 3x as needed lol. We built onto both sides, and the front of one side.

Here is a very old post from when we built the main part of the barn in 2010. Has pictures to show how we put the pallets together and also kept them off of the ground. We've had to do no repairs on it! The only exception is using OSB as doors they get worn out after time as goats and weather is hard on them.

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/building-a-goat-mini-barn-updated-3-17-12.114937/#post-1006645

I don't think I have any good updated pictures, so I will try to remember to get one later. We have a large cattle panel shelter as well, I want to say it's 10'x15' and the goats love it.

You can also google pallet barn, pallet shed, pallet building, etc. to get more ideas. You can use OSB on the sides (make sure you paint it so it lasts). This could save you a ton of $$ and it will be a strong & sturdy structure.


----------



## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

I highly recommend 4-H as a youth leadership program. My kids have all done it and learned so much! I have been 4-H leader for dairy & pygmy goats and poultry for the last 7 years. Your first year is often about doing research and asking questions and planning, just like what you are doing. It is all part of the learning process. "Learn by Doing" is the motto. For our county, animals are required to be owned or leased by May 1. Leasing from another 4-H family could be a great way to get started while you get your area ready. Some of my goat families do not show at fair at first. It is not required. If you do go to fair, you are required to enter a showmanship class. The students learn so much by doing fair and showmanship and being able to communicate with judges. Get in touch with a goat 4-H leader specifically. They will be able to tell you which goats are shown at your specific fair--dairy--usually only the girls and yes only in milk if over two, but 4-H will usually let dry girls show, too, if that's all you have. It is generally more about the student and their knowledge and confidence presenting their animal. They will learn a lot about raising livestock responsibly. Our 4-H has pygmy, fiber, meat (breeding and market), and dairy goats. Some fairs will have an official registered show also; our state fair is an ADGA sanctioned show. It is invaluable to have an actual goat person you can call and talk to. I have helped rearrange and pull plenty of stuck kids for our 4-Hers, too, or just sit with and watch and let them know not to worry all going OK when birthing. I always recommend the FFA book on Raising Dairy goats (https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Goats-Everything-Updated/dp/0760343780) or Raising Goats for Dummies (https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Goat...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8G2YF1CY88EK25T83D4V). Both are easy to read with good solid information.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Newtot said:


> I had thought about getting an old storage shed but unsure. I'd love to see photos.


Ok, sorry this took forever. Here are some photos


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Newtot said:


> I had thought about getting an old storage shed but unsure. I'd love to see photos.


Ok, sorry this took forever. Here are some photos 
View attachment 124982
View attachment 124981


----------



## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

That's a great goat house. We built one like that out of solid pallets, but not quite that nice.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

purplemountain said:


> That's a great goat house. We built one like that out of solid pallets, but not quite that nice.


Thanks  They really liked it, until they grew out of it and we had to find something bigger. They mostly ignore it now, but I use it to lock the kids up at night to separate them from their dams.


----------



## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Haha, yeah we only use ours when the buck comes to visit now. We outgrew it after about three years and when we knew we were hooked on goats.


----------



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

I am in Georgia. Are you interested in getting her involved in the youth market shows? Or the open registered shows? The youth shows are open to 4H and FFA kids from 1st- 12th grade. These shows usually start around July and end in November. The state market goat show is in October. Goats have to be tagged for state by August 1st. Only does and Wethers are allowed in the market shows. Wethers doe not HAVE to be dehorned, but many judges wont place a horned wether. Goats have to have milk teeth at state (although they have NEVER checked). Depending on the desired size for the state show, it is suggested to buy one no older then a November/December born. 
The market shows are VERY competitive and many parents buy kids Wethers and does that cost $20,000+. 
BUT you don’t have to have an expensive goat to show. The shows allow any breed or cross breed wether or doe. Years ago when I started showing I showed a Nubian/ boer Cross who cost me $75. 
There’s a lot to learn about showing. In Georgia There is a saying “if you don’t brace you won’t place”. So bracing is something your daughter will need to learn to do. Your daughter will need to learn how to keep her eye on the judge, how to switch sides, etc. 
Where are you located? I showed in market shows for 7 years. Now that I have graduated, I am more then happy to help the younger kids get involved.


----------

