# How do you butcher emotionally?



## Texas.girl

Except for my first goat, who just wandered up to the house,every goat I have is an abandoned newborn that was given to me. Since I happen to live in commercial meatgoat country, I have been mainly getting Boer's and Spanish. It doesn't take long to fall in love with thecute little kids which make the idea of butchering them something we justcannot do. Those of you who do butcher yourgoats-is it easier when the mother's raise their own kids? How do you handle the entire process emotionally?


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## peggy

This will be an interesting thread. I would love to hear how others deal with this as well. I am finding that the older I get the harder it is for me to butcher kids. I did do my own butchering many many years ago and as I have only recently gotten back into goats, I have not had to butcher any. I have managed to find homes for all the ones I wanted to sell. But I know that there will come a time that it is necessary. Not sure if I can do it anymore, I don't have the stomach for it.


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## nancy d

This is a tough one, as everyone has a different way of dealing with it.
For me, as soon as the bullet hits, that animal is no longer who they were, just a carcass.
IF they are chosen for freezer camp from early on that helps too.


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## AlecBGreen

I always think of what grazier Jonathan White said when someone asked how he could kill an animal he raised from birth. He said, "These animals have a great life and one bad day." Amen. If we are going to eat meat, I would rather it come from an animal I KNOW was raised well and fed well and had a good life. I think its also important to give thanks when you take its life.


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## packhillboers

I personally connect with animals very well. I was told not to allow myself to get attached to these goats as they are livestock and we started into keeping them for two purposes only - land management and meat for the freezer. Well... I discovered that goats are different than other livestock that we had been raised around such as sheep, and cows-even pigs &chickens. Goats can be more personal animals when given the chance. When our first 'kids' were born here.. We set the wethers aside to go to the freezer -and I did name them all. For me it helps to give them a wonderful life here- then have a nearby blackberry patch to finish out at a neighbors house. -a neighbor has taken them in the past to finish out on his property with exchange for meat. -but he fell in love with goats and now has his own so this year.. our meat wethers have stayed to finish out here. I go out every day and give them a pat on the head or a rub on the back but I mentally have set my heart to accept this and not get attached-(ironically.. I am checking also for their meat structure when I pet them & I never tho't I could do that) It is a Meat ranchers way! 
Although, they are treated kindly, and loved, they are not good pet materials as all the wethers ended up being shy or pushy. 
My husband and brother do all the butchering and I will wrap the meat. Yes, it can be hard, but think on the above post quote. -That they have a great life and one bad day.. only even that one bad day is done in such a way.. they have no idea so it isnt a bad day for them at all. (maybe us with all the work and emotional detachment but not for them) They go out eating food in a bucket.. not screaming in terror- roped and thrown down terrified. 

It helps to also know that since we end their lives, we are able to do it in a way that is humane and quick. I am quite picky about the final deed being done quietly, quickly and completely out of site from our dog and the rest of the goats. In fact .. i even remove our dog and myself and will be gone for a while until the meat is ready for me to finish up. The dog loves all of these goats very much minus one .. To her.. it is almost a utopia here and - She would be shocked to see us kill and skin out a goat(her pets)

If you have a father or husband or brother - men can help us women all see the logical side of this and help bring our emotions back to a 'true' sense of an animal's purpose. Men and women can help balance each other out in this way if they were raised as hunters or ranchers. I know a lot of women who hunt and butcher their own deer and their own animals.. and I just bet they either had a father who taught them or brothers or uncle or some man influence in their lives. I have all brothers, had wonderful father, awesome grandfathers and all sons and now so far 2 grandsons. My husband and I plan on teaching the next generation how to properly respect all life and to know of our herritage of hunting & ranching with livestock. 

**After all the hard work this past 3 years in raising goats, it has made all of us more grateful and at ease(for good safe meat) when we bite into our meat. I can not waste a bit of it now without thinking about it and that is something I hope to impress upon the next generation. When people come for dinner, they look forward to eating goat here and they also know how big of a part of our lives it has become.


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## packhillboers

The biggest difference for some of us is this: I don't see animals as being on the same level as humans. They are not humans- they are animals with the purpose to help humans and we had better respect the purpose they were made for. For us.. it is now Pets, land management AND lastly meat for the freezers but for some.. it is strictly for meat only and that is usually with the bigger goat ranchers.


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## ThreeHavens

I love my goats. I have never had a relationship with another animal quite like it, they are special. I also connect very easily with animals. It's really a mentality ... they will only know good care and love. They will never know neglect or poor care. I would rather have my wethers raised for meat than to feel "rushed" and forced to find them all pet homes, and not know how they're doing. Are they healthy? Are they lonely? Are their hooves trimmed, are they dewormed, are they hungry? I can't do that. They are my responsibility, and as such I will only sell wether pets to those that truly will care for them. The rest will live a short, happy life, that will not go to waste. And I know my milk and meat will come from a place that treated their animals with care and respect.


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## Zarafia

Merry, I very much respect your point of view. I can see that you respect your animals greatly.
I was raised, in part, by my Grandpa, who was a farmer and a hunter. I inhereted his love for hunting. I am a falconer and as such, I take game with my hawk. He taught me great respect for the animals who give their lives as prey. And I am very good at dispatching and butchering my hawk's kills. What I don't eat goes to my hawk (who has certainly earned it) and nothing goes to waste.
I also have a great deal of respect for the farmer who raises meat animals the way that you do (and my Grandpa did). Those animals live very good lives. Far better than their grocery store bought counterparts. And they die better deaths. Your words about their last moments being with their heads in the feedbucket comfort me greatly. I hate the thought of the last moments of animals' lives who die in the machine line slaughterhouses. Those animals who's last hours and minutes are overwhelmed with the smell of terror and death filling their nostrils. That saddens me to no end.
I would so prefer to purchase my meat from a farmer such as yourself.
I wish that I had your strength of character.
But I differ from you on one point. I don't believe that animals are on this earth to serve man. I think that we are the top species on earth and therefore animals do end up serving our purposes. But I don't think that Pan is a less worthy soul than I am. He is just at a disadvantage because I am smarter than he is. I know he thinks a lot of himself. I believe that he thinks that he has just as much right to live as I do.
But I also know that nature doesn't give us what we want just because we think we deserve it. So I have power over him.
And frankly I really like goat meat LOL. I just don't have the personal strength, fortitude or ability to detatch myself enough to kill and eat a goat I have raised.
I respect you for the fact that you do.
On the other hand, I am happy and proud to hunt wild game. I know it doesn't make much sense. I don't think any less of wild animals. I just don't know them personally.


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## liz

I never hunted but my parents did...and my mom still does, I was on the butchering end of anything brought in with lead. I was taught that I should never take for the sake of taking and only take to fullfill a need, not to be greedy. I helped butcher plenty of the fowl and rabbits my mom raised but when it came to her goats, my dad and my uncle did the deed as she just couldn't separate herself enough from them.

I do expect the day to come that my little wethers don't go to good caring pet homes and I'll deal with that when the time comes...I have no qualms on eating goat, I just think that they do have entirely too much personality for me to be able to separate those destined for meat from those who would be pets( And I think that goats are smart enough to know that if they're your buddy, they'll stay that way! Thats the only reason that my only wether Teddy is still here...he can be nasty to other goats, downright mean to them but he is as sweet and gentle with me as a baby would be.)


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## Dayna

I just chatted with my husband about the "man" part. While he's killed animals in a professional capacity, he has no interst in killing and butchering our animals. That will fall on my shoulders.

Most likely, I will kill and butcher our chickens. And I'm okay with that. I will most likely take the goats into a place where they kill and butcher them. Not because I can't but because the job might be too big for me to handle and I'm not sure I'm strong enough phycially to butcher a whole goat into eatable pieces. I don't have any electric saws.

I have my pet goats, that will be the parents of the baby goats. I won't be eating them. But I'm okay with eating their offspring.


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## milkmaid

I'm not tough enough to butcher my goats. It's as simple as that. I think I could if I were very hungry, but otherwise, NO WAY! I even have trouble killing a mean rooster! 
But I do eat meat, and since I do I think I should know how to provide it for myself. Like Alec, I would rather eat an animal that lived a happy life and died a quick, painless death than any other kind.
God values people greatly, much more than He values animals. God told Noah that the animals could be used for food. Jesus Himself said, "You are of more value than many sparrows." But just before that, He said that one sparrow cannot fall on the ground without His Father.
I DO believe that God cares for animals FAR more than we can ever know. I believe with all my heart that God is Eternal Love and NOTHING else, and He allows death for a very good reason.

Whenever I kill a chicken, I pray, "May chickens go to heaven!"
Same with any other animal. I believe we will see them there.


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## kelebek

I personally love when this subject comes up  I was born/raised/ and always had been a "city" girl. My dad hunted, and I went with him a couple times (when my mother would allow - they were divorced) but when I brought the legs, tail, and head home for "show and tell" at school, my mother stopped anything I had to do hunting.... not sure WHY *giggle* I was intrigued by how the animal lived, survived, and most of all what it provided for us for food!

Then when my husband and I moved to the first farm in Idaho in 2006, our place was OVERGROWN badly so I decided to get a couple "brush goats" but what I really did was start my love of goats. As research went on I found out about the health benefits of fresh meat, milk, eggs, and so on - and with my husband being diabetic, we went for it. My husband's, and mine also, health became amazingly better!!! I had NO problem butchering - or as I prefer to call it "harvesting" what I grow. The animal was brought into this world by my choice, lived an amazing life, and I showed respect when it was time. Nothing wasted, and if we have to much, we barter for things that we don't grow/raise to share the wealth.

When we moved to Texas last October, we went to look at a farm that I wanted to purchase. FIRST thing I noticed, an outside sink under a roof on the back side of the carport / shop. I looked up to the rafters, around, back down and met my husband's eye. We both grinned. I said - "all we need to do is put a cement slab in with a drain in the middle". The realtor looked at us and was like what are you talking about?? I said this is a perfect "harvesting area" .... she was like what ... I told her I can hang the carcass here, clean and butcher, and walk around the corner to put it in the freezer in the shop - this is PERFECT! I thought she was going to DIE!

It definately is a mantality of knowing, caring, and respecting. Some can raise them but have to send them away to butcher, some prefer to do themselves as a last thought of respect. I appriciate both


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## ksalvagno

I don't personally do any of my own. There are places around me that I can take them. Like everyone else has said, I know they have a good life and the end is quick. I would rather put them in the freezer than have them abused and/or neglected. You have to decide what your limit is and should not be embarrassed whatever your decision.


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## toth boer goats

For me, I don't have the heart to kill them. I am attached to all my goats, but these goats are meat goats so, some will have to be killed unfortunately for consumption. 

So, I have the butcher come out and I disappear in the house or be gone when it take place. The butcher cleans up all the blood, but leaves the stinky stomach stuff, he takes off with the carcass,so the next time I see the goat, it is now vacuumed packed and ready for my freezer. 

It is hard for sure, that is why when the time comes, I cannot do it. But God made goats for people to eat and milk so, we are not sinning by adding them to our freezers.


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## kelebek

I think the biggest key is - we use everything that we take ... and we do not have all the "garbage" in it that store bought, processed, preserved food has. I could feel a HUGE difference between living on the farm in Idaho and being 75% or more self sufficient or trading - then when we moved here and went back to 99% store bought - I felt like garbage again!


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## Jessica84

Animals being used for meat is something that has been in my life since day 1, but I can not do it myself. It was always my job to feed the butcher animals which I feel in love with, but was somthing that was and needed to be done. I am never there when the animal is shot, and I can not kill any animal (except for things that need to die like coyotes and rats ect). I have this big fear of them not being dead after the first shot. I was with my dad on one of the steers and they still move around even when they are dead and I kept yelling, 'its not dead shot it again'. It was dead but my dad did it any ways to try and put me at ease. If your going to butcher your self see if someone can do the killing for you. After its dead I can do the skinning and everything else, you might be the same way, but if you do ask for help see if they will be willing to do the dirty part as well. I dont know, I have it in my mind that once its dead, yeah Im still kinda sad, but its not them any more.


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## sweetgoats

I could never ever do it, but I am glad there are people that can.

That goes for all animals.


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## packhillboers

I also could never butcher any of our goats and my husband & brother will do this. If one of my special pet goats gets old one day.. I know for certain.. I could not eat her or any of the pet ones that we have as I have allowed myself to attach to them. When they die.. I will cry my eyes out and could not eat them. They will probably be old and will be in a grave or dump grave somewhere but my husband & I probably could never eat the pet goats. They love us.

I must have frustrated my family a bit as a child because I made pets out of everything- even a chicken that I taught how to do tricks and carried on my arm. I had named all the animals we had at our home. I am glad my grandpa understood this- he had his pets too that he had named and animals loved him. When Harold the calf got butchered - I cried and cried because i ate Harold for dinner and no one told me it was Harold. I was about 11 years old.


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## Lamancha Lady

I take anything I need butchered to my father. I never butchered anything in my life so I'm not even sure how to go about it. I also make sure I'm never there when the deed is being done.


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## Texas.girl

Thanks for all the responses. My problem is the only guy around here isworse than I am when it comes to falling in love with animals. He even cries at almost moves. Since all the kids are bottle fed, it isharder not to fall in love with them. Wecurrently have 2 week old twin boys (of course abandoned by their mother andgiven to us by the rancher and being bottle fed). He knows we can't keep them as we already havea buck and a special needs wether. So wedo not need any more boys. I read outloud all the responses and it has helped him mentally to deal with this issueso maybe when that day comes when he will be able to handle the situation. As for the twins, they will probably be soldwhen old enough or maybe traded in for a dairy doe (which are rare around here).


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## xymenah

I do not treat the ones I know I am going to eat the same as the others. With my animals I put them in three categories in my head. The pets, the could sells and the food. I will seek out the pets and the could sells for attention and treat them the same but with a different mindset. The food animals are treated with respect but I won't go out of my way to give them attention or anything other than an occasional pat and talk to them if they are doing something odd. The two kids that I butchered this year were bottle babies. I made a rack to put the bottles in so it wasn't as personal. The actual butchering part is easy for me. They are meat not the animal I once knew. They can't bahh or eat hay so they are not "insert name here" anymore. I called them Stupid and Idiot as another way of detaching myself.


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## Texas.girl

xymenah said:


> I made a rack to put the bottles in so it wasn't as personal.


Do you have a picture of the rack you made? I have seen bottle racks for cows for sale but nothing for goats.


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## xymenah

Texas.girl said:


> Do you have a picture of the rack you made? I have seen bottle racks for cows for sale but nothing for goats.


Unfortunately I do not because it got destroyed by my doe Beep in a bad mood lol. However I can tell you what it looked like. All it was was a 2 1/2 gallon square bucket with holes in the side for the neck of the bottles. I just tied it to a fence. I was feeding three so the bottles fit right in there and didn't slide around. I fed them milk for six months that way. If I had tried feeding them at that age by hand they would have jerked my arm half off. I couldn't believe how much fat they had on them from the milk when I butchered them.


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## cmany

We actually just butchered our first goat yesterday...what a job!

We have explained to our kids that all the animals that we have (goats, chickens, ducks, quail, and rabbits) are here for a purpose...Food...milk and eggs...all the goats have names...as do the rabbits and a few of the chickens and the ducks...

They are pets with purpose...we love them...and give them a really good life...and in return...they provide us with sustenance...

I found online...a place that does very humane slaughter of their goats...and we followed their procedure...it was very calming and relaxing for Josh (our wethers who was slaughtered)...quick and without screaming...he went peacefully...I stroked him and told him he was a good boy...and thanked him for providing us with healthy food...

Part of him was dinner last night...everyone enjoyed it...

My twins (age 9) have even slaughtered their own rabbits...and were disappointed that they had to go to school rather then help us with Josh...the have all helped with the chickens and the quail too...

It's not easy...that is for sure...but it is a necessary part of our own survival as well...Josh was probably also a bit easier to do because he was driving us nuts with his hollering which was loud and constant...which made being outside hard because he was so vocal...everyone here had had enough of him and just wanted some way of shutting him up...not that that was the reason for slaughtering him...but my god he just would not stop...

For me...the first time has been the hardest...but getting through it...knowing that you are providing a higher quality food for your family...knowing that these animals are treated with respect and kindness...fed well...given a happy life...it makes it easier...

Now I am I hand raising 3 bunnies...on goats milk...and have already thought about what happens when they are big enough for slaughter...considering they are going to be raised inside...and even litter box trained if necessary...I don't think I will want to slaughter them...and if my other does produce litters...I shouldn't have to...These will go for sale as pets...I am hoping...

Its hard not to get attached...especially when handling something so small and defenseless...

We have decided that we are going to raise dairy goats for sale...and boer goats for meat...most kids will be bottle babies for ease of handling...especially those we intend on selling...we already bought one goat who was nearly impossible to handle...thankfully getting our nannie had changed that incredibly...

Also...some of the places where we have gone to get these animals...I have seen people who are over run with animals...one in particular was over run with chickens...they didn't have the heart to slaughter...and they were over run with roosters...the poor hens were SO beat up...no feathers on their back...forced to the ground by 4-5 roosters at once who all fought to get on top of her...they were all such a mess...and in a pretty small confined space for having probably 60-80 of them (plus other animals as well)...slaughter would have been a relief for many of these birds...

They place I got my nannie and her twins (Josh was one)...they had a large goat farm...but the pasture was sparse...and Rosie (nannie) had a very hard time competing for food...she only has one bottom tooth...so she was severely under weight...they had several older does that were pregnant...that obviously should have been retired...as they were old and riddled with tumors and struggling to get around...again...not a fair life for them...

Some of our animals came from less then desirable conditions...at least according to our own personal standards...so knowing that we are taking them from there...giving them more of what they need...and giving them our time...giving them a happiness that they didn't have...helps us feel better about the slaughter...because we know that at least...in their last months alive...they never had to want for anything...they get fresh veggies from the garden...a lush pasture...pets and scratches in all their favorite places...

Its certainly not for everyone...but we also feel that it is important to know HOW to provide for yourself...should anything ever happen...My husband has really taken to the process...it does not bother him in the slightest...in a good way he enjoys it...But He also makes sure that I can do it as well...I had a chicken that was bit by my dog...and she HAD to be slaughtered...the front of her chest was ripped off...and the other chickens would have pecked her to death...so I HAD to do it...as the hubby was working away from home...I could not let her suffer...

So I prefer to leave it all up to him...I can process the meat...but if I have to...there is no doubt that I can and will...


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## packhillboers

Some time ago - a few months back.. I posted about someone dumping an unwanted goat buck on our property- by opening our bottom field gate and tossing him in with our pureblood & full blood Boers. Ahhh.. we were upset to find this in our field -only being gone for 3 hours. I posted on Craigs list.. that if I couldnt find a home by -friday- then we would take care to make sure he was gone.. (meaning that we were going to dispose of him somehow)
I received a couple of unfriendly emails concerning this - giving the little buck a soul and that I was attempting to kill (murder) such a creature just because I was mad. I was shocked of how people think upon reading those emails making us out to be like 'murders'. I find often.. that these so -called rescue people have their hands so full of rescuing so many animals that they think they are doing the world a favor.. disease.. and unkept animals often are a result. I spent a lot of time trying to make sure this little stray buck went to the right home.. and he did. - to a woman who actually would see to it that he would be well cared for.. but I would rather have this little buck butchered humanely than to go to the home that was trying to rescue him from ME as she had all sorts of critters already in a small area. 
I am all for animal rescue places if they are providing a good reason to have these animals and they are well cared for.. I am shocked at how people think sometimes. It also does appear that I have two of my Does pregnant from that stray goat. They are rounding out a lot looking prego. Ahhh.


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## Texas.girl

cmany said:


> I found online...a place that does very humane slaughter of their goats...and we followed their procedure...it was very calming and relaxing for Josh (our wethers who was slaughtered)...quick and without screaming...he went peacefully...I stroked him and told him he was a good boy...and thanked him for providing us with healthy food...
> 
> 
> 
> I would like that site if you can provide the link.
> 
> 
> 
> packhillboers said:
> 
> 
> 
> I received a couple of unfriendly emails concerning this - giving the little buck a soul and that I was attempting to kill (murder) such a creature just because I was mad.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if these "unfriendly emails" came from folks who buy meat in the grocery store?
> 
> Thanks for all your replies. They have all been helpful to us.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## ThreeHavens

Texas.girl said:


> I wonder if these "unfriendly emails" came from folks who buy meat in the grocery store?


Hear hear!


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## HaleyD

Whenever I was in FFA my friends always asked me how I could be so mean to raise an animal and gain it's trust and then just "murder it", but of course these were my friends that were not a part of FFA. I raised chickens, sheep, goats, and cattle and witnessed all of them being slaughtered and I was ok with it. It may sound weird that I watched, but they way I saw it I had put all that time and effort into raising them and hauling them to the slaughter house that I might as well watch the whole process to see how it's done. The only animals I slaughtered myself were the chickens. All my animals had names (except the chickens) and I loved them all and had great relationships with them but I knew from day 1 what was coming and I kept it in mind the whole time I raised them so I never had a hard time in the end when it was time to say goodbye. My parents never helped much with my animals, I didn't want them too because they were my projects, but my mom never understood how I could be so "cruel" to do that. But I do have to say the animals I raised myself were some of the best meat I have ever tasted, especially the beef and chicken. It tasted so much better than store bought. 

On the other hand, I now have 2 pygmy/ND wethers that are my pets and I could not imagine them being slaughtered, but that's because I never looked at them that way. I guess what I'm saying is in my opinion is you have to know what the animals purpose is, I would have no problem raising another goat for slaughter along with me "pet" goats, but could not imagine slaughtering my 2 wethers I have now.


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## liz

This thread has been EXTREMELY full of wonderful advice, those of you who breed specifically for consumption of the whole animal have a very compassionate and humane heart for those animals.

I can truthfully say that I'm not hungry enough to eat any of my herdmembers... I'm happy with the plentiful deer around here, but if there ever came a day when I would need to choose to disperse my herd, if I could not find just as loving and caring home for them as they have with me, I'd rather bury them than send them off to an auction or a home that would not care for them. Their health and happiness come first


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## cmany

Texas Girl...

Here is the video....oops didn't mean to link the video into this post...copyright disclaimer...You tube...
Mercy Halal Islamic Slaughter Part 2-b


Mind you, it is without shooting or stunning...I just could not bring myself to shoot...due to potential ricochet and other effects of shooting it...and to stun...especially with horns...I was afraid that he wouldn't be hit hard enough...and really didn't like the idea of being stunned...then snapping awake while being bled out...

This way...I was with him the entire time...brought him to a calm state...and held him while it was done quick and the rest of the herd was not upset by his screams...

This is what worked for me...

Christine


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## redtailgal

I guess emotionally, I am just hard hearted. Most of the time, a meat animal is given a "meat" name, for instance right now my two meat wethers are "Meat loaf" and "Butt Roast". I handle them the same as I do the other goats, they end up just as lovey dovey and spoiled. I never have an issue when I meat animal is killed.

Now, my does, Fern and Daisy, are not meat animals, but if they were to die from something other than illness, I would eat them without hesitation. They are to be breeders, but it wouldnt bother me.

I also have two one and a half year old wethers. Plato.........I could eat him without hesitation. He annoys me at times, and I threaten him with BBQ sauce on a regular basis.

Then there is Socrates. He is not edible. I dont think I could eat him if I was starving. The attachment to him is strong, he is my BOY. (LOVE that goat). Not sure how he crossed the line from being meat to being adored, but he managed it and when he does die, he will be buried in a special spot in the pasture, and I may need to be sedated, lol.

When we butcher, I help gut and clean, but I dont kill. I dont have a problem watching hubby kill, because he does a nice clean kill. There are other members of my family that I dont allow to kill my animals at butcher time....FIL for one, he is too detached and a painful kill doesnt upset him, so I dont think he puts enough effort into making it a clean kill. We've butcher plenty of cattle, but only one goat so far. The goat went incredibly well and the meat was MAGNIFICENT.

Our last goat was killed with a .22 lead round nose round, and he went down smooth and easy without even twitching (wish cattle were that easy). In the future, I plan to purchase a captive bolt gun, but they are a little spendy right now.


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## ThreeHavens

redtailgal said:


> Now, my does, Fern and Daisy, are not meat animals, but if they were to die from something other than illness, I would eat them without hesitation. They are to be breeders, but it wouldnt bother me.
> 
> I also have two one and a half year old wethers. Plato.........I could eat him without hesitation. He annoys me at times, and I threaten him with BBQ sauce on a regular basis.
> 
> Then there is Socrates. He is not edible. I dont think I could eat him if I was starving. The attachment to him is strong, he is my BOY. (LOVE that goat). Not sure how he crossed the line from being meat to being adored, but he managed it and when he does die, he will be buried in a special spot in the pasture, and I may need to be sedated, lol.


I am very similar. I would be able to eat our wether, but my sister is very attached. He's a sweet guy and I enjoy having him around, but I could harvest him. I could probably harvest my younger does as well if we had to. I love them all dearly and they are friends, but this is how I am. I would be able to use them for their meat, knowing they were loved and cherished.

Patti I could never, ever use as meat. She is a Patti Pet. :laugh:


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## cmany

I know what you mean...

As much as Bubba can drive me nuts (my boer buck), I know that when that day finally comes...I am going to have a hard time...he was my first bottle baby...and so sweet and loving...tho I am not really up for that right now...being rut season and all...when I have to go in there I can't keep him away from me...The other buck Henry...really good and sweet boy too...10X's stinkier...but I am not as attached to him...

As for the girls...The only potential I can foresee is our doeling Peppa...she is coming around So well...just the sweetest little thing...but she will be for breeding...so I don't expect that day to come too soon...

Now facing having to process my Flemish Giant Bella...she just isn't producing...Told the hubby I won't have any part of slaughter with her...she is SO sweet and gentle...her fur is just so beautiful...the others...well my buck Fred too...he is just the greatest rabbit...so the rest of them...no problem...but those 2...I fell in love with them more then I should have....LOL


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## WarPony

redtailgal said:


> I guess emotionally, I am just hard hearted. Most of the time, a meat animal is given a "meat" name, for instance right now my two meat wethers are "Meat loaf" and "Butt Roast". I handle them the same as I do the other goats, they end up just as lovey dovey and spoiled. I never have an issue when I meat animal is killed.
> 
> Now, my does, Fern and Daisy, are not meat animals, but if they were to die from something other than illness, I would eat them without hesitation. They are to be breeders, but it wouldnt bother me.
> 
> I also have two one and a half year old wethers. Plato.........I could eat him without hesitation. He annoys me at times, and I threaten him with BBQ sauce on a regular basis.
> 
> Then there is Socrates. He is not edible. I dont think I could eat him if I was starving. The attachment to him is strong, he is my BOY. (LOVE that goat). Not sure how he crossed the line from being meat to being adored, but he managed it and when he does die, he will be buried in a special spot in the pasture, and I may need to be sedated, lol.
> 
> When we butcher, I help gut and clean, but I dont kill. I dont have a problem watching hubby kill, because he does a nice clean kill. There are other members of my family that I dont allow to kill my animals at butcher time....FIL for one, he is too detached and a painful kill doesnt upset him, so I dont think he puts enough effort into making it a clean kill. We've butcher plenty of cattle, but only one goat so far. The goat went incredibly well and the meat was MAGNIFICENT.
> 
> Our last goat was killed with a .22 lead round nose round, and he went down smooth and easy without even twitching (wish cattle were that easy). In the future, I plan to purchase a captive bolt gun, but they are a little spendy right now.


Sounds like me, basically. I have no problem at all with it. Meat kids get meat goat names... last year we called them all "Kenny" (from the character on South Park who died every episode), with a description. Long Earred Kenny, Short Earred Kenny, Pinto Kenny (who then became Chickory and no longer a meat goat).

They get handled just exactly like the other goats with the exception that about once a week each meat kid gets a walk to a special treat place where it gets to have some molasses covered sweet feed on the ground. Then, on the big day, while they are stuffing their face on their treat.... it's over before they ever knew anything at all. I love knowing that they had a good life right up to that very last second.

This year we will likely name our meat kids things like Kenny, Earl, and Ensign Smith. I already explained Kenny, Earl is from a country song (If you've heard it you will understand why) and in the original star trek the security ensign that went on the away team almost always died. Yes, it's flippant and makes light of their fate, but it also reminds me of what their job in this world is. As long as I know they are fulfilling their destiny and don;t suffer I have no issue with it, or with doing it myself, at all.


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## Hobbyfarmer

We are getting ready to butcher our first "big" animals next week. 2 hogs and 2 wethers who were born on our farm. While our families haven't been negative I don't think they realize how insensitive their comments on harvesting are. It was so refreshing to read all these positive comments from like minded individuals who "get it". Thanks everyone. You brought tears to my eyes.


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## ThreeHavens

It's good to have people who both understand and care. Insensitive is as bad as negative, especially when you are close to the animals.


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## Texas.girl

Saturday I went to the Renewable Energy Fair in Fredericksburg, TX. One of the speakers I listened to grows most of her own groceries for her and her family. When she started she couldn't grow a house plant but slowly learned the secrets to success. Goats are not for her, but she does raise chickens and rabbits for food. Her decision to grow her own groceries begin when she learned that our food is no longer grown locally and the typical grocery store only has 4 days worth of food in stock. There is very little that she eats that she must purchase. One benefit of this lifestyle is her health has greatly improved. There is so much garbage in our food, especially what is fed to commercially raised animals, that the food we are eating apparently is actually killing us. On the trip home I kept hearing commercials reporting the dramatic increase in autism and one has to wonder if all the garbage added to our food is not some how related. I doubt I could butcher any of my current goats as everyone has or is being bottle fed due to being abandoned by their mommas. My 2 does will most likely grow old here, along with my special needs wether. Someday I will probably have to trade in my buck for some new genes. I have twins (3 1/2 weeks old) boys and so we have known from day one that even though they are cute as can be and a lot of entertainment, someday they will have to go. Our oldest doe appears to have come into season this week, at least we noticed huge behavior changes in her and the buck. Buck has to work on his aim (he's young), but hopefully next March their will be some babies running around who do not have to be bottle fed and can fill our freezer with healthy meat.

For those interested in learning how to raise all your own groceries, the speaker's web site is: http://growyourowngroceries.com/ She sells a DVD series on how to grow your own groceries. Her site is dedicated to selling that DVD ($50), no other info available. I have had zero success in getting food trees to grow so I might buy the DVD's. Not sure yet.

http://growyourowngroceries.com/


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## Texas.girl

redtailgal said:


> Most of the time, a meat animal is given a "meat" name, for instance right now my two meat wethers are "Meat loaf" and "Butt Roast".
> 
> When we butcher, I help gut and clean, but I dont kill. I dont have a problem watching hubby kill, because he does a nice clean kill. There are other members of my family that I dont allow to kill my animals at butcher time....FIL for one, he is too detached and a painful kill doesnt upset him, so I dont think he puts enough effort into making it a clean kill. We've butcher plenty of cattle, but only one goat so far. The goat went incredibly well and the meat was MAGNIFICENT.


When my first goat wandered past the kitchen window last November and unable to locate an owner decided to keep her, a friend said I had to name her. So I decided to call her Lawn Mower. Lawn Mower has lived up to her name.:laugh:

A few years ago I went in with a friend who wanted to raise turkeys. I bought the poults and she fed and raised them. Finally the day arrived and she brought over 2 of the birds in a large dog carrier. Both birds were tied up and I am sure scared as we both live on dirt roads (her's is horrible), so the trip over to my place took awhile. My friend took the first turkey out of the carrier and then hung the poor thing upside down from the beam where it was to be slaughtered. She then covered his eyes and prayed. I have no idea how much time had passed from the moment she caught the two birds, tied up their feet, stuffed them in the cage, put them in her vehicle, drove to my place, etc. But for me it was way to long. I am all for thanking God for the food but do so before putting the animal under so much stress. She has fulfilled her end of the deal and I am glad. I do not want to be part of such inhumane butchering methods ever again. I love the way many of you do the deed so the animal never knows what happened.


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## ThreeHavens

Texas.girl said:


> There is so much garbage in our food, especially what is fed to commercially raised animals, that the food we are eating apparently is actually killing us. On the trip home I kept hearing commercials reporting the dramatic increase in autism and one has to wonder if all the garbage added to our food is not some how related.


You bet it is. That is why my aunt started goats, she has an autistic son. Now his milk and meat is healthy for him.


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## WhisperingWillowNDG

Thank you thank you for this thread. I had told myself that we would eventually butcher some of our Wethers each year, but have never killed an animal before in my life. It's so good to hear that it can be done better than I KNOW the near I get at Walmart is butchered. Poor animals. maybe next year I will find someone willing to teach me.


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## utahgal

We have a customer base of Saudi Students that buy our lambs every year. The first time they came out and butchered a lamb, I couldn't watch the entire procedure, but what I did watch facinated me. The student was totally reverent thru the procedure preceding the actual slaughter. He moved slowly, quietly and peacefully. Knives were quietly "layed" down. He layed the animal down gently, and spoke reverent words, (which at the time I didn't understand) which were a prayer of thanks for the offering, and when the animal was quiet, he proceded. I was MOST impressed with the whole procedure and can now watch the entire procedure knowing that the animal was calm and at peace. I have learned a lot from that first time 3 years ago. I have watched a lot of different students, and they all have their own way of butchering, but the basic procedure remains the same. I am thankful that at the ripe ole age of 63, I am still able to learn some life lessons and from a foreign culture is most interesting. I now look at that day as a day of Thanksgiving and can appreciat it.


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## nchen7

I'm loving this thread. I'm learning so much!

We just had our first kid birthed at the house...and it was a boy. We've already decided that if we had a boy, he'll end up in the freezer, but I still get emotional at the thought. I'm sure I'll be a basket case on deed day. I do feel better knowing he'll be absolutely loved and taken well care of. No stress. Love and respect for him before, during and after the deed.

I'm just really glad I'm not alone in my boat of fighting feeling attached...hard not to get attached to that little face!


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## SpruceCreek

At the moment we only have the two doelings and our buck. All of them are so sweet and well mannered, they will have a forever home with me, however, from the beginning I have kept my mindset that when the babies do start coming they have a purpose in life and the purpose is not to stay on our farm forever. I know it is going to be hard, because I am a rescuer by heart, but I am realistic and know why these goats are here.

Thanks for this thread, it has helped tremendously, now to find some of those articles on calm humane killing...


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## Texas.girl

There are a few youtube video's on slaughtering humanely.

I am having doubts we will ever be in a place to slaughter our goats. A month ago 3 kids were born. One is a girl (safe) but we also had twin boys. One boy is a runt and the momma decided to reject him. So we have Skinny (bottle fed) and Fatso (dam fed). From the moment I checked the gender I announced we could not keep the boys. But a few weeks later my Ranch Partner learned some info about his grandchildren and well--long story short there are 3 children now living with us and the two younger ones have been bottle feeding Skinny and are in love. Even the idea of selling Fatso is upsetting to them, who they have not bonded with. One child asked to show Skinny in 4-H (she just learned about the program) but rabbits are what they show at her school. This year we will just sell the extra goats, but hopefully in time we will be able to get to the point where we are able to slaughter the animals and children and adults are okay with it.


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## sunshinegoat

I butchered my first goat this year. I was obviously not looking forward to it. I have butchered many chickens so I think this was a great help. I was sure to wait until my animal was calm and said a prayer of thanks (as I do with every chicken) I worked quickly and calmly and kept emotion out of it.
This wether was destined for the freezer from the beginning. I have another wether that was originally for sale and when he didn't sell we were going to butcher him..then we changed our minds again. I know with him I personally could not kill him. I think it helps designating them for the freezer in the beginning and if you are not sure, don't bond with them...this is just my opinion.


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## ThreeHavens

nchen7 said:


> I'm loving this thread. I'm learning so much!
> 
> We just had our first kid birthed at the house...and it was a boy. We've already decided that if we had a boy, he'll end up in the freezer, but I still get emotional at the thought. I'm sure I'll be a basket case on deed day. I do feel better knowing he'll be absolutely loved and taken well care of. No stress. Love and respect for him before, during and after the deed.
> 
> I'm just really glad I'm not alone in my boat of fighting feeling attached...hard not to get attached to that little face!


I have allowed myself to get attached to my wethers. They are my pets, but they are pets with a purpose. If I do not find a home that will love them like I do, then I am protecting them. I cannot keep them all and I cannot compromise on their home quality. So, they are pets that I will enjoy for several months, and love while they are here.


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## Abra

I WANT to be able to kill my own animals...
Chickens...
Ducks...
Geese....
Goats...
Pigs....
You name it...

I WANT to be able to do it! But the last time I tried to 'help' my hubby with chickens (roosters) that I SPECIFICALLY raised to be eaten, I cried like a baby, and snuggled the dead birds and cried over them. Hubby told me to get my a** back to the house, and never to help again....
Afterwards, he brought them to the house, naked, and gutted, and I 'cooked' them up, and the family ate them, but when I tried to take a bite, I got sick... (ran to the bathroom and threw up)
Yeah, that went well...
I WANT to give them a good life, and I WANT to know they were well fed, and well loved, and well cared for, but I don't know how to do it... 
I WANT to give my family my OWN, healthy meat that I raised without all the garbage in it!
I keep telling myself all this stuff that you guys are saying, and it doesn't seem to help...
I just can't seem to be able to handle seeing that 'light' in their eyes go out...
I am SUCH a hypocrite!!!
I WANT to eat them, but I CAN'T kill them...
WHAT is wrong with me..???

Hubby flat out REFUSES to raise a goat for meat... He says he 'can't raise anything that cute and kill it"....
Though has NO problems with chickens, or Moose! LOL
So now what do we do..????


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## TrinityRanch

Hug them, love them, kiss them.... And NEVER KILL THEM!!!!! 

Ahaha I am joking! I have raised Boer wethers for the fair the past 3 years, and I have developed my own system for emotions, even though I do not do the slaughtering or eating myself, it still is sad.

1. I always get attatched. Who wants to spend 5 months raising a goat that you don't even love? Not me...

2. I constantly tell myself how amazingly muscular and lean and healthy and tasty my goat looks. I know, it's strange, but it helps to look at it like that. You know that you are raising a perfectly healthy meal for someone's home and life. Goats were created to be eaten 

3. I look forward to the next goat I will have, or the ones waiting at home for me- like my beloved breeders and pets. They are always comforting 

That being said, I will NEVER raise my own goat to eat. I can't, and I admire the strength of anyone who can.


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## Dani-1995

TrinityRanch said:


> Hug them, love them, kiss them.... And NEVER KILL THEM!!!!!
> 
> Ahaha I am joking! I have raised Boer wethers for the fair the past 3 years, and I have developed my own system for emotions, even though I do not do the slaughtering or eating myself, it still is sad.
> 
> 1. I always get attatched. Who wants to spend 5 months raising a goat that you don't even love? Not me...
> 
> 2. I constantly tell myself how amazingly muscular and lean and healthy and tasty my goat looks. I know, it's strange, but it helps to look at it like that. You know that you are raising a perfectly healthy meal for someone's home and life. Goats were created to be eaten
> 
> 3. I look forward to the next goat I will have, or the ones waiting at home for me- like my beloved breeders and pets. They are always comforting
> 
> That being said, I will NEVER raise my own goat to eat. I can't, and I admire the strength of anyone who can.


I do all three of those things! I especially look at then and think if I was going to pick a goat to eat then mine would be my choice. I know he's healthy and well cared for... no worries about meat withdrawl on meds and all because I know what I do with them


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## PiccoloGoat

I wonder if I would be able to eat an animal I've raised. I don't think it would disgust me if I knew from the beginning that he's food. And knew how good he was gonna taste.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I can do chickens, turkeys, rabbits, and pigs no problem... But I don't think anyone here could eat a goat we raised ourself... Someone else's? Sure! LOL! They are just so personable! I couldn't do it unless I never met it!


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## Dani-1995

I could eat one I raised as long as I didn't pet it or give it treats and it wasn't friendly. So pretty much as long as all I do is basic medical care, feed and water then I could do it. I am actually going to help with a slaughter this summer if our family friend does one. I think goat is.the best meat ever... it tastes very good and plus is even better for you than chicken


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## TrinityRanch

I have raised chickens before, sliced off their heads, washed, plucked, and gutted them, and then ate them. I have raised pigs and ate them, but they were so mean and they bit me everyday. Goats are so different to me . I could not dream of eating one, even the brattiest little wether I have now  I totally agree about the meat, though. It is so good. We ate some at an after-fair-party, and were thinking that it could be our goats. "Can you imagine... Maaaa, maaaaaaaa..."


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## PiccoloGoat

Well yeah I say it now that I could eat my own goat, but maybe when I get my own for real I'll hug them and sob and promise never to eat them :laugh:

Funnily enough I'm trying goat meat for the first time tonight in a curry. Yumm I'm excited


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## cmany

Texas.girl said:


> Except for my first goat, who just wandered up to the house,every goat I have is an abandoned newborn that was given to me. Since I happen to live in commercial meatgoat country, I have been mainly getting Boer's and Spanish. It doesn't take long to fall in love with thecute little kids which make the idea of butchering them something we justcannot do


i can tell you the first time is the hardest! but we have some goats for there milk and some for meet. we deliver the kids bottle feed them love them and when it is time. the best way i found to do the slaughtering is to put the goat on its side cover the goats eyes with there ears. this will com the goat take a very sharp knife and cut the throat deep you may have to cut the throat 2 maybe 3 times because of clotting the deeper the better just remember my 6 year old helps with the slaughtering and she will like her sisters the animals that go for meat are meat goats the day they are born knowing that the kids give them fun names like" pinky pork chop" dinner that was the first to go here around one year ago. Lets face it you have goats for a reason if that reason is meat then you have to get it done if its for milk or hobby sell the kids or give them away and dont bother there is a lot of blood in a goat you have to hold them down and dont let the others see you doing it they will think there next thats what i was told good luck and just so you know me and my family love goat meat


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## nchen7

ThreeHavens said:


> I have allowed myself to get attached to my wethers. They are my pets, but they are pets with a purpose. If I do not find a home that will love them like I do, then I am protecting them. I cannot keep them all and I cannot compromise on their home quality. So, they are pets that I will enjoy for several months, and love while they are here.


amazing amazing. i've been saying that to non-livestock friends of mine, and no one understands. it's hard not to love that little face, but from the beginning when we bought our pregnant doe, we decided any boys will end up in the freezer (just not enough room on our land for anymore), and I don't trust many people here to take care of the goat as well as I would. Others want me to sell him back to his breeder or other livestock farmers, but they don't realize boys end up at the slaughterhouse....

Thank you for your thoughts! Makes me feel better about this decision. :hug:


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## sgian

Goats have too much personality for me to eat, same as cats and dogs. I ate one of my goats once and it had a name too, that was weird. So I stay away from meat goats now and stick with dairy or fiber goats. Sheep, rabbits, chickens, etc are fine with me though.

Unfortunately I had CL in my herd at one point years ago, so I have put down a lot of goats and one ram. I've used different methods to find the most humane method. To me, the most humane method available to me is a solid slug from a shotgun between the horns. The goat just drops immediately, and there is not even any twitching. A .22 is also effective, since it is just strong enough to enter the skull once and as I understand it bounce around in there destroying the brain quickly. As for high powered rifles and pistols, they will just go right through the skull without causing enough damage and it may require more than one shot. 

However, even a botched shooting is far more humane than the method of bleeding out like the muslims do. I cut the throat of a ram once, and thought it was a primitive and relatively savage way of killing an animal. If I lost access to guns, then maybe slitting the throat would be more acceptable to me, but I would probably just take it to a butcher who has something more humane if I could find one. Slitting the throat is messy, so you should have a bucket to catch the blood. It also seems to take forever for the animal to bleed out. Just because the animal can't make noise since its throat has been cut, doesn't mean that it can't feel the pain. My ram was looking around and twitching, so I know it was aware. Shooting is a lot faster so the animal doesn't have to suffer for nearly as long, if at all..


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## TargetedGrazing

sgian said:


> However, even a botched shooting is far more humane than the method of bleeding out like the muslims do. I cut the throat of a ram once, and thought it was a primitive and relatively savage way of killing an animal. If I lost access to guns, then maybe slitting the throat would be more acceptable to me, but I would probably just take it to a butcher who has something more humane if I could find one. Slitting the throat is messy, so you should have a bucket to catch the blood. It also seems to take forever for the animal to bleed out. Just because the animal can't make noise since its throat has been cut, doesn't mean that it can't feel the pain. My ram was looking around and twitching, so I know it was aware. Shooting is a lot faster so the animal doesn't have to suffer for nearly as long, if at all..


I signed up specifically to address this. For one, it is not respectful to refer to 1 billion people's slaughter practices as "primitive" and "savage" based on your own single experience when slaughtering the animal. As other people shared in this thread, regardless of one's religion, it can be very, very humane when done properly.

Temple Grandin, expert in humane animal slaughter, said that when shechita and dhabiha (Jewish and Muslim slaughter methods, respectively) are done correctly, they are in no way inferior to bolt stunning for humane and ethical slaughter.

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/rec.ritual.slaughter.html

For two, electroencephalograms of brainwave activity in animals killed with Jewish and Islamic slaughter methods revealed that they did not experience pain. According to Grandin and previous researchers, sheep and goats enter an REM-like brain wave pattern after just seconds, and then experience brain death mere seconds after that.

So please learn about traditions before referring to millions of people in a prejudiced way because of your own mistakes. It sounds as if your animal may have been in pain, and that understandably bothered you, for which I am sorry, but it isn't the fault of Muslims (or Jews, who also use a similar method).

Thank you to everyone on this thread for sharing their experiences--I will be facing the same situation about a year from now.


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## sgian

I don't care if it is disrespectful to say the truth about other people's behavior, especially when unnecessary pain is involved. You can theorize all you want due to someone's beliefs, but slitting an animal's throat is a primitive and savage way of killing an animal when guns are available. Just step back and look at it from common sense and you should see the truth of what I am saying. If that fails, then it is your animal to torture if you want by bleeding out next year when you gain some experience on what you are talking about.


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## TargetedGrazing

sgian said:


> I don't care if it is disrespectful to say the truth about other people's behavior, especially when unnecessary pain is involved. You can theorize all you want due to someone's beliefs, but slitting an animal's throat is a primitive and savage way of killing an animal when guns are available. Just step back and look at it from common sense and you should see the truth of what I am saying. If that fails, then it is your animal to torture if you want by bleeding out next year when you gain some experience on what you are talking about.


You are willfully ignoring the fact that multiple other people in this thread, dozens of scientific studies, and thousands of years of firsthand evidence have shown it to be as easy as falling asleep for the animal when performed by a skilled shochet (trained male Jew) or Muslim. Prejudice and intentional ignorance are what is truly primitive.

Here is an article about a rabbi and shochet that I believe suits this thread very nicely: http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.20/hersh-saunders-transformation-from-prosthodontist-to-kosher-slaughterer

Given that he stopped eating meat until he knew it lived a good life and died well--which is what drove him into raising his own sheep--I very much doubt he considers his method of slaughter to be "torture," "primitive," or "savage."

*Here is an excerpt:*



> He spent two years training to be a shochet, and studied with renowned animal scientist Temple Grandin to learn her techniques for humane slaughter. Saunders and Brenner then started their own herd of Barbados blackbelly sheep, a resilient heirloom breed suitable for raising on grass, without antibiotics and hormones.
> 
> When his blade is ready, Saunders enters a lamb's stall and speaks to it quietly. Keeping the animal calm is critical, he says, as is keeping himself focused. "We are going to move from a sensate creature to dinner," he says. "We want to do that in a way that preserves the honor and the energetics of the entire system. Otherwise, it's just some kind of lust."


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## ogfabby

I agree, when done correctly, there is far less pain involved and its more likely to go correctly by slitting the throat vs shooting. Tons of accrual scientific (not emotional) research has been done on it. I understand that the thought of cutting something's throat can be horrifying for some. Today's media sensationalizes things as does PETA and other animal rights advocates. The thing is, very rarely do any of these give you solid fact. It's ok that you may not prefer one method over another. Just don't go attacking others. That's the problem in today's world....too many people allow their emotions to run without looking at honest facts rather than radical group agenda. I mean come on people....now they are saying if you drink from a water hose you are going to be deathly poisoned....


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## nancy d

Drinking from hoses?  Ogfabby I shoulda bin dead long ago.

A throat slit is quick & quiet when done properly. I once witnessed a botched job of it.


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## Trickyroo

I cant do it , I never will do it , the end 
I didnt get into this hobby for the meat aspect , so thats my saving grace on the subject.
I dont want to have to think about it either. I know i ate goat at some point because of going to Caribbean Islands for vacation when I was young and lets say naive , lol. Yeah , whatever , chicken , beef , llama , goat , iguana ,all tastes the same , lol Put it on a bun , with some salsa and I'll eat it , lol

Now , forget about it !! Stomach cant handle that stuff anymore , lol

But if it smelled good , looked good , I would love to try goat  As long as its not my goats though  I'll skip the salsa this time


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## sgian

Some of you need to learn discernment to filter out the pseudoscience that got linked earlier from a religious site. When you look at the facts, you will find that I'm on the side of science. That is why there is a movement in Europe to ban halal slaughter, and why halal slaughter has already been banned in at least two European countries. There are also graphic videos secretly taken of halal slaughterhouses, in which you can clearly see that many of the animals are suffering.

I am not advocating a ban on halal in the US because life is already too regulated, but when people claim that halal slaughter is just as humane as shooting that is either PC or an outright lie.

In this link, 90 scientists wrote a letter saying that halal slaughter is cruel. This is reported by a news site. http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/1...-halal-animal-slaughter-is-inhumane-and-cruel

In this link, a UK government committee of scientific, agricultural, and veterinary experts concluded that halal slaughter is cruel. This is also reported by a news site. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ligious-slaughter-say-scientists-1712241.html

I'd appreciate if some of you people stop attacking me as ignorant and emotional. You don't know me or what I've been through. I'm just stating facts and standing up for what is right against the PC crowd.


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## Trickyroo

Ummm


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## PiccoloGoat

Last time I ate goat I got really bad heart burn, it's lifes way of telling me they are too cute to eat


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## Trickyroo

That would do it for me , lolol


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## StaceyRosado

Sgian from what I see written here you started the attacking. 

So I would appreciate if you all would keep you posts friendly. We all may have personal beliefs that don't fit with someone else but trying to force it won't chance the other persons mind. 

Lets keep the topic inline with its title and not get ugly with this debate. I don't want to have to dish out warnings. 

Thank you all


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## Trickyroo

Thank you Stacy.


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## sgian

I saw TargetedGrazing as the first to start attacking someone (me) personally. That person registered on this site due to my opinion that slitting a throat was a primitive and savage way of killing, which was a statement that not pointed at anyone personally. I'm out of this debate, it looks like faith and political correctness will win the debate over science and humane slaughter.


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## gmos719

Personally, I'm a vegan. I don't see the since in killing something to eat it. Imagine someone keeping you for a pet and eating your children. Not cool. Not cool at all.


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## nancy d

I would prefer this thread to be a discussion, not a debate.
After all, we have different points of view & not one way is right or wrong. 
Just as many here do not eat goat meat period. It's called the freedom of choice & no one should be even subtley called out.


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## Trickyroo

:thumb::flag:


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## GTAllen

Since this is a section of the fourm called "*meat market*" and a thread about *butchering and killing animals*, people who don't who don't eat goat meat should just keep their opinion to themselves and move on.


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## GTAllen

I enjoy my goats. But they are livestock.

I killed one the other day. I put a hand full of grain on the ground and as she ate it, I placed the muzzle of the .22 against the back of her head and squeezed the trigger. It was over in an instant and she provided a lot of tasty farm fresh meat.


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## nchen7

gmos719, that's great that you're vegan, but this is not the time nor place to have this discussion. we all have goats for different reasons, and it's not nice to be judgemental.


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## Abra

Sooooo...
How-bout them apples..???
I LOVE apples!
Green ones, red ones.... They are all good!

LoL
(Sorry, trying to lighten the mood)


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## ThreeHavens

Abra said:


> Sooooo...
> How-bout them apples..???
> I LOVE apples!
> Green ones, red ones.... They are all good!
> 
> LoL
> (Sorry, trying to lighten the mood)


Green used to be too bitter for me but they've become my favorite


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## Trickyroo

:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:Love apples !!! How bout them Yankees


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## Texas.girl

I just aquired 3 grandchildren who refuse to eat red apples but apparently LOVE tart green apples.


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## StaceyRosado

I know Ive mentioned this before but I plan on sending mine to the local butcher - that way Im removed from the process.


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## ThreeHavens

We do as well, Stacey  It's a very nice place, they treat their animals with respect. Maybe someday I will be able to do it, but I would rather support a good butcher as the job is not one I would enjoy or excell at.


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## nchen7

I don't know of any "nice" butcher places here.....so I think we'll have to do it ourselves....


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## Dayna

I've been looking around for a place I could take any males I have born here and can't sell in to butcher. There is one place, you drop the goat off and it hangs out for a while to "calm down" and then they have some sort of "bolt gun?" that they use. I might find out the total cost and see if it's worth it for us. It costs a lot to run a freezer here in Hawaii so between storing the meat and the cost to butcher it, it might be a very expensive goat.


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## Trickyroo

I can eat a couple a day 
Any kind , love them all !


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## ThreeHavens

Haha! Laura :laugh: I know we all love apples.


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## GTAllen

Dayna said:


> I've been looking around for a place I could take any males I have born here and can't sell in to butcher. There is one place, you drop the goat off and it hangs out for a while to "calm down" and then they have some sort of "bolt gun?" that they use. I might find out the total cost and see if it's worth it for us. It costs a lot to run a freezer here in Hawaii so between storing the meat and the cost to butcher it, it might be a very expensive goat.


A bolt gun stuns them with a blow to the head and then they can be bleed out.


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## nancy d

Since our place is small we have to hire out the job too.
They do a great job.
The only problem is that since rendering trucks only take beef & hogs we have to bring home all spare parts. At least around here.
You also have to speak up before hand if you want heart, liver etc, otherwise it disappears.
For those who dont like liver, goat is nothing like beef at all! It is a light color & super tender and very mild.


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## gmos719

nchen7 said:


> gmos719, that's great that you're vegan, but this is not the time nor place to have this discussion. we all have goats for different reasons, and it's not nice to be judgemental.


Sorry if I came across as being judgemental. I didn't direct my post at anyone.


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## toth boer goats

gmos719 said:


> Sorry if I came across as being judgemental. I didn't direct my post at anyone.
> Kill all the baby goats you want.


 gmos719 no one likes killing for meat.

Goats where made long ago for human consumption and I am sure, way back when, they didn't have guns to put the goat down, so had to kill in other ways, which we may not like. But it was for their survival.


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## still

How would you describe the taste of goat? I've wanted to try it but it definitely won't be my own


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## nancy d

gmos719 said:


> Sorry if I came across as being judgemental. I didn't direct my post at anyone.
> Kill all the baby goats you want.


As stated before, this IS The Meat Market. Which is probably why it was entitled that way, so folks who dont use their animals for meat can just not go there.
Please have respect.


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## GTAllen

still said:


> How would you describe the taste of goat? I've wanted to try it but it definitely won't be my own


Kid goat has a very light delicate flavor. Somewhat similar to a young crop land deer. It is an excellant lean meat that is a real treat.


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## Dani-1995

still said:


> How would you describe the taste of goat? I've wanted to try it but it definitely won't be my own


Its like a cross between deer and beef... lean like deer and a little stronger than beef but not gamey like deer... I describe gamey deer as tasting the way a live one smells.

I agree with the mods... this a meat market forum for a reason just like we have dairy diaries, mini mania, photogenic and all the other specialty sub forums.


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## m57gonefishing

I just got done butchering a one year old boer/lamancha surprise. Our lamancha buck got through the fence to our girls. We named him Taco right off the bat. At first he didn't like me and I was good with that, but then two months ago he started trusting me. Damn it!! I grew up hunting so the idea that this animal has lived a great life with land to roam definitely out weighs the life of the meat you get in the grocery store. Not to mention all the health and self-sufficient benefits. Personally I like to butcher my animals myself so I know how it was cared for. I just do it like I butcher my deer. A couple knives, a grinder and a vacuum sealer is all that's needed. What I was pleasantly surprised with was that my year old wether had zero gaoty or gamey flavor. Taste just like beef which makes me believe that it's mostly how clean you butcher and how quick you get it cold. It's excellent. I don't think I'll buy store bought again.


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## jddolan

We raise meat goats,boers to be exact,I have never eaten any,eventually may try it,but my family and my young girls all understand we're the goats go when sent to auction,we are keeping the doelings and sell off the bucklings for slaughter,just part of this we have to deal with I guess,even though they are all so darn cute.


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## Trickyroo

I really want to taste goat ! Im so excited to try it and this time know Im eating goat  But like someone else said , it wont be my own.
Not yet anyway , lol. Nah , couldnt do it.
I would have someone else do it somewhere else , lol


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## Abra

I've been thinking....
I think for me it's the eyes.... I just can't seem to imagine those eyes going dead....
Maybe the way to do it, is to find a 'meat raising' partner.?
You bring home their meat baby to raise, and they take yours. That way neither meets their future 'freezer-filler'...?
Then having someone you know come get each one, and 'take care' of what needs to be taken care of....
Hmmmmm....
I should start looking for a meat raising partner!


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## m57gonefishing

Honestly, find an older deer hunter. Reason I say older is that usually they have experienced enough that they do the job right, usually. If your lucky enough, taste his deer first. That way you'll know just by flavor if they are doing it right. Yes some of it has to do with feed but not enough to ruin meat. I've had young deer, older deer(none old though), and deer that have been taken where their only wild feed couldn't possibly make the taste better but no worse either. Age isn't an issue as you can control that with your goats. I nor any of my fathers deer growing up has ever been gamey. Always taste real close if not just like beef. If the deer taste gamey then something was done wrong. Whether it be hair on the meat, not super clean or took to long to put on ice. 

I'm no expert by any means but this is what I did to have beef tasting goat that my wife and my three daughters(4, 6, 10) love. The girls don't know or they wouldn't eat it. My loving wife has allowed them to name every goat we have, even the eaters names like Sweetie Pie, Blossom, Betty, Coconut, Snickers to name a few. I don't have it in me to just just cut as some do. One shot behind the horns aiming to the lower jaw with a 22 mag. Yes it's sad but it's also instant. Then cut and bleed. After that, I gut then hang them up by their hind legs. When you gut them be careful not to puncture the bladder. If you do, all is not lost. Just rinse thoroughly with water and dry off meat. Water left on meat will ruin it. When you skin them take care in not to get hair on the meat. If you do you'll be able to carefully inspect and remove when cutting meat. After they are skinned I immediately quarter them and put them in a large cooler on ice. You really don't want to let them sit on ice for hours(water). I then bring the cooler inside(its hot here) and begin making my cuts. I personally just cut all the meat off the bones. I'm not a butcher and don't know the cuts but I usually just use the hams as steak and roasts. Backstraps/filet mingon(long back muscle) is butterflied into medallions as is the loins. Usually the front shoulders and neck are made into ground for me. Cut off as much fat as possible. You don't have to do surgery, just get the bulk off. This will be easier as the meat cools. I don't even like spending tto much time cutting as I don't want it to warm. The nice thing is you can cut it up into whatever you want. Steaks and roasts, all ground, maybe all jerky. 

I started doing my own deer and bear because I had had my meat ripped off twice from two different butchers. One tried to tell me half my bear was dirty, a complete lie. Plus I'm cheap. I guess it's easier the more you do it. Not for the faint of heart though. Unfortunately, even after all brain activity is dead nerves still cause animals to move sometimes making you think they are still alive. They aren't. At our house I'm the guy who does the dirty work but don't get me wrong. I still like to get out there when the sun is starting to go down and go sit on a rock and love on my goats as they come to say hi. 

Sorry for the harsh details but I think it's important not to sugarcoat and let people make informed decisions whether they can do it or not. If you get to the point where you, your spouse, or your hunter friend cuts your own meat you'll love it. At least for me I really like the fact that it's one less thing I have to rely on others to do for me. Not to mention, you could always have someone butcher your meat for you for trade. Much healthier to eat then beef or that pink stuff they sell in the grocery store. 
Good luck, and remember no matter what you choose your animals are well loved and have a good life.


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## m57gonefishing

Two more things I forgot. When you go to grind your meat put your 1" chunks of preground meat in the freezer until its firm but not frozen. This way your grinder can make quick work of getting through the sinew(sp). Also, get a vacuum sealer. Walmart brands are fine. I just have the better foodsaver brand sealer offered by Walmart. Butcher paper and plastic is fine but nothing beats a vacuum sealer. I've eaten 2-3 year old frozen meat that taste as good as day one. Oh yeah, one more thing. I usually make up a pot of lipton french onion soup for my roasts. Before I place them in the bag I put garlic cloves in the meat. I then put the roast and french onion soup in the bag and then seal it. Not only does it help force the flavor into the meat but the soup also helps that much more with keeping air out. If you are unsure on how to gut, skin, quarter, or even bone out meat just get on youtube. Good luck all.


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## Scottyhorse

Okay, I breed Nigerian Dwarfs, but I would like to put my opinion in here.. :2cents:

First off, I will say I am a 14 year old girl. I have always loved animals, and I am able to make special connections with them. (I am not some crazy person, animals just attach themselves to me for some reason, and I can 'read' them)
I have never had an interest in hunting, and the only reason I would hunt is if I needed to provide for my family. If something were to happen in the united states, and we needed to kill to eat, I would do it. Would I like doing it in the least bit? No. 
When my dads friends come over to hunt, (we live in eastern WA, hunting is a lot better than where his friends are from) I will participate in the skinning, gutting, plucking, etc etc. I wouldn't say I like doing it, but I don't mind it. I find it interesting, I guess, and I like to see what goes on in there (I want to be a vet)

Now onto the goats. I am not against eating them. If we weren't supposed to eat them, God wouldn't have put them on the earth, and we wouldn't be omnivores. I personally would not be able to kill the animal, and I think I got over loosing a friend, I could eat it and help butcher it. 
I am open to either bleeding them out or a shot to the head, as long as they are not stressed, feel the least amount of pain. 

I prefer to eat farm raised meat, myself. I like to grow my own vegetables, and eat eggs from our chickens. I know these animals were respected, treated better, and killed in a less gruesome way than at a typical slaughter house. 

If we weren't able to raise animals as food, think of what would have happened to the worlds population before we had all this pre-packaged, 'fake' food. People NEEDED the meat to live another day, and work another day. What they didn't use was traded for things they couldn't make themselves, like ribbons for girls' hair, sugar, etc, etc. 

We can't forget to mention how they are needed in other countries. Take mexico and africa, even haiti as an example. Goats provide SO much for them. They use the meat, the milk, the skins, the bones, even the insides. Nothing goes to waste. If I could, I would donate a breeding pair or trios to a family in another country who needs it through one of those places who take donations and send live stock to families, for sure. They are so desperately needed over there. 

In my opinion, a lot of the vegans are coming from the wrong point of view. We can raise our pigs, fowl, goats, cows, rabbits just like we would a pet. Love them and respect them. Treat them right. If you use a .22 to dispatch them, it's over in less that a second. They're eating grain, then next thing they know they are in goat/cow/pig etc heaven. They don't know they are going to die, and it's over so fast there is no stress. Before any vegans start yelling that I am wrong, I would like to say, think of one of PETAS recent campaigns. The 'Animals are Friends, Not Food" one. Animals can be BOTH. There are ways you can make their life amazing and wonderful. 

Also, I do not plan on butchering any of my goats. I WOULD like to know how though. I am not suggesting I am a dooms day prepper or impying there is going to be a crazy apocalypse, but what is something DOES happen. Wouldn't it be good to be prepared? Be able to eat? It's not a pleasant thought, but I think it would be useful to know the different methods for butchering different types of live stock. 

That's just my two cents. I feel this is a very touchy subject, but I just wanted to put in what I think.


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## PiccoloGoat

Funny that you say that scottyhorse, about wanting to donate goats to villages. For Christmas last year my brother did this thing with Oxfam; you donate money to go towards purchasing a goat for a poor village, as a present for someone else. 
The caption of the front of the card is "what do you give someone that already has everything? A goat!"
I think it was a great gift becaus even though I received nothing physical, I felt good that someone needy was benefitting from it. 
I hope that made sense it's hard to explain through text haha


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## nchen7

Scottyhorse, you are a very wise and intelligent young adult. The world needs more teenagers like you!


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## ThreeHavens

Well put, scottyhorse. Your opinion was stated very well and respectfully


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## Scottyhorse

PiccoloGoat said:


> Funny that you say that scottyhorse, about wanting to donate goats to villages. For Christmas last year my brother did this thing with Oxfam; you donate money to go towards purchasing a goat for a poor village, as a present for someone else.
> The caption of the front of the card is "what do you give someone that already has everything? A goat!"
> I think it was a great gift becaus even though I received nothing physical, I felt good that someone needy was benefitting from it.
> I hope that made sense it's hard to explain through text haha


Yep, made sense! I think we donated a pig one year.


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## Scottyhorse

Thank you nchen and ThreeHavens


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## TargetedGrazing

Heifer International is a reliable organization that does a similar livestock-centered charity.

Heifer International


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## NyGoatMom

I'd rather eat a goat I raised in a happy,clean,healthy environment the way God intended than to eat a cow that never eats a blade of grass and stands knee-deep in it's own excrement....just my :2cents:


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## gmn11

*Not my own animals*

I have butchered my own goats in the past and it was an emotionally stirring experience that I still struggle with. Right now I do not butcher my herd. I find that even if I have someone come and pick up a buck kid, the herd knows exactly what is going on, and that they never see him again. This I'm afraid changes the whole dynamic between myself and my herd. They seem to not trust me as much right away and it takes quite some time for them to get over it. This interruption in relations for me, is just not worth the trouble and work of killing, skinning, gutting, cutting and freezing for the amount of meat on a dairy goat. Maybe if I had meat goats I probably would have a different attitude from the get go. Now if I have to sell a buck kid for meat, I separate him from the herd for a couple days and try not to have other animals see when he gets picked up. I'll eat goat meat no problem just not my own I guess.


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## Curious

I've never harvested a goat, but I have done so with my rabbits for years.

From an emotional standpoint, I have to almost meditate and focus my mind for the task at hand. I do deep breathing and try to separate myself from my emotions, because if I don't, I'll think about all the good times we had and how trusting the look in their eyes is. Once, and only, if I can do that, do I go through with my task. Throughout the whole process, I am calm and collected, but after all is said and done, I usually need some time alone to emotionally recollect myself, as I'm usually sad and wistful. 

For me, I feel that I don't deserve to eat any meat unless I know where it comes from and I know how to do it myself. These are just my personal beliefs. I was a vegetarian for nigh on two years when I reached maturity of thought, and that's how long it took me to search myself and realize that if I treat them respectfully and lovingly as individuals from Day One, then I shouldn't be ashamed of harvesting their bodies for my nourishment if it is done in the same respectful manner. I only ever kill animals out of need, such as hunger, or they are destroying my crops or animals which will result in my hunger. I hate that they go though the pain, but it is a natural cycle. When I die, my body will go into the soil, which in turn goes into to the grass, which the bunnies and cows and other animals used for food eat. I'm not saying we're a bunch of cannibals, or that I will one day be a cow or a tree, but we are all connected to each other by life, and it is purely a natural cycle born out of need. I cannot live forever, and the grass needs to eat, as do the bunnies and chickens and cows.

That's how I came to my personal beliefs about killing animals, and eating their meat. If you don't agree with them, I'm okay with that. I posted them because the OP asked how people emotionally butcher an animal, and so I answered to the best of my ability. I hope it helps somewhat and doesn't inflame anyone too badly.


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## BillieJoeHoofstrong

NyGoatMom said:


> I'd rather eat a goat I raised in a happy,clean,healthy environment the way God intended than to eat a cow that never eats a blade of grass and stands knee-deep in it's own excrement....just my :2cents:


I agree on this! and I work with Ohio State vets and it is a fact that if an animal (usually cow) is taken out of that environment and put in a big grass pasture for at least ONE WEEK before slaughter they have MUCH less e.coli than if they stayed cramped and in a dirty area. it also helps get rid of other things that can be harmful. I am not aiming to offend anyone but everyone has their own opinion.


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## Abra

so many opinions that are so very different.
It's nice to see everyones thoughts.
I found this thread very interesting and enlightening, so I decided to read your responses to my husband.
He has always refused to keep a meat goat, because he said he wouldn't have the heart to kill it.
However he has no problems whatsoever killing chickens, or shooting a moose or a deer.
After sitting down with him and having a serious discussion about the prospect of rearing our very own meat animals, he now seems to agree that it's a good idea. The only thing he asked for is to keep the goats (wethers) we decide to keep for meat away from him until the time comes that he has to do what has to be done.
So we made a pact...
The agreement we made was that if he fails to bring home a moose this year to fill up our freezer with, we will be breeding or largest doe (Delilah) to a boer buck in the fall, hope for males, and raise them as meat animals....
I just hope that even though I will not be "killing" the goat myself, or processing it, I will be able to handle it OK when the time comes...


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## xymenah

Well since this thread asks about the emotional part of butching I feel like I have a bit more to add since I just butchered one of my favorite does after she died of bloat. I loved her allot but after she died I couldn't bring myself to waste the meat. Once the life drains out of their eyes I don't have a problem butchering them. They are no longer that loving pet I remember but a lifeless shell of meat, bone and such. They may have the same face but they are no longer there. I cried over her body as I skinned her not because I was sad for doing it but because I was mourning the loss of what she once was. In fact I am proud to say her body did not waste and she has provided even after death. I feel the same thing about all the animals that end up in my freezer even if they were not my favorite. Every animal has a place in my heart and I still morn their loss but I move along quickly because there is nothing to dwell on. They have given their life for a purpose. Their body is not rotting in the ground but giving nutrients to other living things aiding in the cycle of life.


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## nchen7

beautifully said Xymenah. I believe I will be in your shoes later this year... I will certainly keep your words to heart.


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## Abra

xymenah said:


> Well since this thread asks about the emotional part of butching I feel like I have a bit more to add since I just butchered one of my favorite does after she died of bloat. I loved her allot but after she died I couldn't bring myself to waste the meat. Once the life drains out of their eyes I don't have a problem butchering them. They are no longer that loving pet I remember but a lifeless shell of meat, bone and such. They may have the same face but they are no longer there. I cried over her body as I skinned her not because I was sad for doing it but because I was mourning the loss of what she once was. In fact I am proud to say her body did not waste and she has provided even after death. I feel the same thing about all the animals that end up in my freezer even if they were not my favorite. Every animal has a place in my heart and I still morn their loss but I move along quickly because there is nothing to dwell on. They have given their life for a purpose. Their body is not rotting in the ground but giving nutrients to other living things aiding in the cycle of life.


*BEAUTIFULLY *put.!!!
That was probably one of the best responses EVER!
You make it sound almost poetic, and so kind! 
And believe it or not, I think I am going to keep a link to this post of yours, to read if, and when the need arises... 

*THANK YOU.!!!!!*


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## toth boer goats

I agree


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## WarPony

xymenah said:


> Well since this thread asks about the emotional part of butching I feel like I have a bit more to add since I just butchered one of my favorite does after she died of bloat.


Xymenah, I am so very sorry for your loss. I have come to feel as if I know your goats personally and the love you feel for them just pours off of every post you make. That you have lost one dear to you breaks my heart. (((hug)))


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