# My American Bulldog tore my goats ear almost completely off!!



## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

I want to start this by emphasizing that Gambit is an amazing dog, a protector @ heart & that the episode was so shocking we are all flabbergasted!

Gambit has a small history.... he was a rescue, we took him in when we lived in Ohio 5 years ago when he was approx 6 months old instead of allowing him to go to the pound (all bully breeds are PTS out there)

When he was about 1.5 my daughters friend was over with her totally obnoxious 2 year old. He just wouldn't leave G alone, pullin ears & tail, just tormenting him. Eventually G snapped at him...... left a nick above his eye & lip.
G was scolded (punched in the head actually, my son was right there & it was sheer instinct) after that he was gentle as can be with any kid, now he adores kids & hasn't shown an ounce of aggression towards anyone in years.

When we first got our chickens he tried to get at them a couple times but stopped chasing them after a swat on the thigh with a switch & a few loud NOs!

Since we have had the goats he has been amazing with them! When we had to catch them (before they got over being skittish) he would sit outside the fence whining. 
About 4 weeks ago, when we moved our bot baby out, he started hanging out with the goats all the time... he jumps the fence & sleeps in their areas constantly, hell when the twins were born, their mom was a bit overwhelmed & I'd see him cleaning their butts (He was a dad 1x & the dam was a terrible mom, he more than made up for it)

FFWD to yesterday, at a.m. milking we noticed that our biggest girl had a cut on the top of her head & our open girl had a fat lip. The goats were together & we assumed that they had scuffed themselves up squeezing between the gate & barn wall.

This afternoon I wasn't feeling well so I was lying on the bed watching TV. Unfortunately the stroke damaged my hearing so I watch TV on a 'teenagers' level & can't hear much else so it took me too long to realize the noise wasn't the guineas, it was Tubsy!!!

Gambit had her by the ear & she was screaming at the top of her lungs! Usually no matter what G is doing (even squirrel chasing) one yell & he stops dead. This time I was screaming my head off by the time he let go..... He wasn't shaking his head like an attack... it looked like he was playing Tug of War!!!

Her ear is a mess, pulled/ripped away from the skull in the back. She has airplane ears & it just hangs there.
DH sprayed it w.blu kote, wrapped it to her head & we started her on Pen G. Also gave her some B complex & Nutri drench.

G is now on a permanent muzzle when outside while we decide what to do.

On 1 hand, G is a very loved family pet, on the other there's that old addage that says "Once they taste blood......."

Help??!!?? We just aren't sure what to do! Please skip the "Shoot the dog" had dh been home when it happened he probably would have, now that the dust has settled It probably wont.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

fence the dog away from the goats and chicken? if thats possible. Otherwise I would have to say rehome the dog. I personally dont think you can train them not to do it, they are predators and prey animals, its just instinct.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

I agree with Keren. Once something like this happens, it will happen again. If he were mine, he would already be gone.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

My pit had a similar incident. Now, he isn't allowed anywhere near the goats. I pen him when I am not home because he has lost that trust. He is now way to interested in them. We have broken him from going near the fence by using a tri Tronics shock collar. We popped him anytime he would venture near.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

keren said:


> fence the dog away from the goats and chickens.


We did originally keep him away from the chickens until he stopped his interest in them. The goats & guineas have been good, especially the goats he has loved them.....

G can jump any fence without even grazing it. Does anyone really think this could be a 1 time 'fluke'? That he was trying to play? (Until recently he has always had another dog his size to play with)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

the rock and hard place here...once a dog crosses that line there is not turning back..you could rehome him where there are no animals or small children..but honestly..that line has been crossed...He is excelling..a little nip on the visiting child...a fun chase after chickens...a few cuts and bruises of the girls before this and now he ripped an ear off...Im not trying to wag a finger...truly Im not..You just need to look at the whole picture...either he has to live his whole life with a muzzle in a pen or on a leash or he will hurt another goat, chicken, child or you. Im sorry but a very hard choice needs to be made..for his sake as well as those in your life....this is not a one time fluke..this is the beginning. I wish you the very best...


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

happybleats said:


> the rock and hard place here...once a dog crosses that line there is not turning back..you could rehome him where there are no animals or small children..but honestly..that line has been crossed...He is excelling..a little nip on the visiting child...a fun chase after chickens...a few cuts and bruises of the girls before this and now he ripped an ear off...Im not trying to wag a finger...truly Im not..You just need to look at the whole picture...either he has to live his whole life with a muzzle in a pen or on a leash or he will hurt another goat, chicken, child or you. Im sorry but a very hard choice needs to be made..for his sake as well as those in your life....this is not a one time fluke..this is the beginning. I wish you the very best...


I did rescue for years & dealt w/ plenty of dogs that were 1 time biters.... I dont worry about him w/ kids... that was a long time ago & he adores my 2 yr old grandson. I want to excuse the chickens as "it was the first time he ever saw a chicken"

It is a very hard thing to convince yourself of something you really can't believe.....:mecry:


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## gmos719 (Apr 19, 2013)

Dogs will be dogs. 
I wouldn't punish him. All you can do is keep them separate.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

This is a VERY difficult situation.

It will not be a one time thing unless you and your family take EVERY precaution to not let it happen.

I had a Boxer dog that absolutely would kill poultry and would attack the goats. She was never ever allowed outside on her own. She was perfectly trustworthy in my presense so the only times she was outside or in the pastures was with ME and ONLY me.

I had four lines of electrical wire, very powerful charger running it, between the dog areas and the livestock areas.

If the dog gets at the livestock, it becomes my failure, not the dogs, because I knew she was untrustworthy.

This is JuneRose - she only has one ear for the same reason your dear is now hurt. (Although in her case, it happened between her being sold and returning to me, and not via my own dog)

She healed up just fine thankfully.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I did rescue for years & dealt w/ plenty of dogs that were 1 time biters.... I dont worry about him w/ kids... that was a long time ago & he adores my 2 yr old grandson. I want to excuse the chickens as "it was the first time he ever saw a chicken"
> 
> It is a very hard thing to convince yourself of something you really can't believe.....


I do understand...its difficult and scary all rolled up...I believe you will do what is best...Its a scary situation...and not everyone will handle it the same way...I truly do wish you the best and respect the decision you make on is behalf..
__________________


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## lillyhart (Mar 21, 2013)

I have a pitbull that hated my boxer dog. They used to fight until my house looked like a blood bath. I know that my boxer would start the fight thinking he was gonna beat the pitbull but it never happened that way. Last year my boxer got really sick and had to be put down(he was almost 13 years old). My pitbull has not had any problems like that since. I have a black lab who is 14 years old and they have never fought. I also let him run with my goats and chickens and never really have a problem. I do usually muzzle him if I'm not outside with him. I would rather be safe than sorry. It's your choice but i don't see a problem with muzzling a dog. It's only for a little while. Pitbulls are one of the most loving dogs I have ever owned in my life. I would do what had to be done in order to keep my dog If I was in your situation. Whether it was keep him seperated or muzzled. I don't believe that once they taste blood, they will always attack. I think u will never know exactly what he was thinking or why he did it but it happened and now you just have to be cautious. Like I said this is just my opinion.


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## reggalce (May 2, 2013)

You said something about your dog minding but not this time. That would be the red flag for me. Once they demonstrate that they recognize they have a mind of their own, ... If you have more than 1 goat (who doesn't), the dog might have taken a disliking towards just that that one goat but if you just separate those two, he might take to teasing the other goats. I wouldn't risk it. That's too bad.

I am trying to decide what kind of dog to get but most of the LGD breeds are just too big, which leaves me wondering how a herding dog would do. Not liking that idea so much because the only thing I want chased off my property is other dogs. I also kind of like the idea of a german shepard because I've seen some of them that are very very mindful. I've seen some german shepards and doberman pinchers that are just about as mindful and militant as a soldier. One guy I knew had a dobe that would run a perimeter around him as he walked down the street and he could tell it to go in bigger circles or smaller ones.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

I disagree with those who are saying that once a dog tastes blood, he can't be trained out of it.
We have a half husky that used to chase goats and kill chickens. We trained him not to and he never does it anymore. He still has the "chase" instinct for ducks (new to him) and small goat kids, so we keep him fenced away from them. Our other dog, part Aussie, won't bother the other animals much but will kill every rabbit he can get his teeth on. I don't think there is any way to train that out of him.
My point is, _some_ dogs can be trained to leave _some_ animals alone. Not all dogs, not all animals. But some.
I am really sorry about your goat's ear, but glad the injury wasn't worse! It does sound like the dog was trying to play, not bring down a kill, but dogs don't realize that their "playmate" isn't enjoying it and can even be killed! It would take a long time, and lots of proving, before I would trust that dog around goats again.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You mentioned that he had a buddy. What happened to his buddy? Could you get him another buddy? Maybe having another dog to play with will help the situation.


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

I think American Bulldogs are gorgeous. I've owned 3. I'll never own another. Here is why.. I bought my ex Bf a male puppy from the pet store, I had a yellow lab that I had owned for 6 years. My cousin had to suddenly move and asked if I could watch her am. Bull. I agreed. We had him for several weeks. The dogs all got along well. They were in their outside kennel together. I ran to the store. I came back to a complete bloodbath, my labs head was ripped wide open he had punctures all around his throat. He was shaking, in shock. My cousins dog was covered in blood, he had no wounds. He proceeded to try to attack my lab while the ex went for his gun. He was shot dead where he stood. My lab also had to be put down. It was a horrible tragic day. And all I could think about was it could have been my babies(sons were 3,4 and 10 at the time) I hate to say it but he sounds like a ticking time bomb. He may snap one day and maul a child, a goat. I honestly would put him down if he was my dog. A dog attack is a horrible living nightmare.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I had a lab that was "playing" with my goats. She just wanted to have fun. Well it is not fun when we find two dead babies. Then she got out again and almost killed another one so she is gone. I found a home for her in town and it is a perfect fit.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I really think it depends on your dog and how trainable he is. My best well trained dog turned into a chicken killer after months of being just fine with them, no amount of scolding changed it. UNTIL I caught her in the act. all I had to do was yell at her, she crawled to me on her belly, I forgave and in 4 years she hasn't looked crosseyed at a chicken since. Completely trustworthy, she just didn't get it until I was able to catch her and immediately let her know it was unacceptable behavior.

You caught your dog in the act, that is good. How was his demeanor once you disciplined him? Its going to depend mostly on his disposition and how sensitive he is to correction. There is hope, though. I also don't believe the adage that once they taste blood its all over. My dog is living proof that not all dogs disregard rules when corrected appropriately. But you do take a chance that he will do it again, and that is a chance that you are going to have to ask yourself if you are willing to take or not. I don't think your dog was trying to kill her, he would have gone for her throat or butt to take her down. But he did major damage.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

How is the goat's ear? Does it look like it will heal or need to be "amputated"? I had a ewe attacked by a Rottweiler one time and he ripped her ears clean off. She was so cute and the only way she could hear me is if she could see me first. I would clap my hands to get all their attention then she would come. Poor baby. She was my prettiest headed ewe too. Very feminine.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

we have a large mutt we can't trust around chickens, cats or other dogs. he's hopped the fence (with or without us there) to attack dogs or kill chickens. we've found a dead kitten on our deck as well. he's been intrigued with the goats, and for a while he wanted to try to play with them, but he doesn't do that anymore after he found out that horns hurt (thank goodness for horns!). we leave him tied up when we're not home, or when we're home and there are chicks around (he LOVES the cheep cheep of a chick). we don't trust him, but don't want to put him down. he seems fine being tied up on our back deck during the day (mostly stays in that spot anyway even if we are there).

we've caught him in the act, and scolded before/during/right after attacks, and didn't do anything. we're hoping he'll get old enough soon that he won't be able to hop the fence anymore, but we've been hoping for over a year now...lol

it REALLY depends on the dog and your situation. this is definitely a tough place to be. you just have to find a solution that works best for you.

glad your goatie didn't sustain more injuries. hope she heals up soon!


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

Your dog needs to have some boundaries. Especially around the goats. You mentioned he jumps fences but there are plenty of psychological barriers you can be using. This dog should never be allowed around livestock again. It doesn't matter if he was playing or not. He can still injure and kill either way. Stop making excuses for him and do some back to basics training. Since you worked in rescue I'm sure you're aware rehoming a dog of his age, breed, and history will be almost impossible. I'm so sorry this happened. I would be torn too. On our farm we have a zero tolerance policy for aggression.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

All dog breeds come with their instincts and some just shouldn't be around livestock at all. Unless its strictly a guardian dog I wouldn't let it near the goats, just too much of a risk. I don't even trust my brothers chihuahua in there. Especially since a dog running around chasing goats can be extremely stressful especially if they have kids. 

You can probably get a large kennel if you are set on keeping the dog regardless of the risk or possibly set up a good anti dog fence for the goats.


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## eqstrnathlete (Mar 16, 2013)

I rehomed my lab. It was a very hard decision. But when he wasn't able to kill my chickens he started killing my barn cats.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

We had a pit, and she couldn't be kept in any normal fencing...climbed/jumped/dug under everything. So we put an electric wire at the top and bottoms of her pen. Never got out again as long as you kept it hot. It just sounds like you need to have a zero tolerance policy for dogs being in with the goats. Even if it was not vicious, "playing" for a dog will absolutely kill your goats dead. Its just how it is, plain and simple, and allowing the dogs and the goats to intermingle at all, especially if you aren't supervising 100% of the time, is a recipe for potential disaster every time. We like to humanize dogs, and in many ways they are very emotional...but they are still animals with instincts that they can't make a conscience decision to control on the same level humans can. But thats just IMO. Luckily, as long as you keep infection under control and amputate the ear should it become dead tissue...well, its just superficial really isn't it? My biggest concern would be gangrene if the ear or parts of it die and rot and it isn't removed from her head.

That same pit was great with people, the most amazing people dog EVER. She never tried to pester the goats while my cattle dogs would run the fencing, drooling on themselves and going bonkers because they couldn't get in to chase. But I never let her be with the goats, no matter how loving she was. She didn't fight with our dogs, but she would get in massive, bloody all out brawls with our room-mates Shepherd mix. She ripped that dog's ear off. They almost killed each other twice. She never made a mean move towards any other dog/animal. I do not believe pits are bad dogs, or are dangerous if they are raised correctly and lovingly and trained properly. But I do believe they DO have a tendency to have natural aggression issues above that of other breeds, mostly towards other dogs if they decide that they dislike them. And then they go from sweet and loving to Cujo in two seconds flat. Seen enough of it to feel its a correlation within the breed, although many pit advocates would rip me a new one for even suggesting its a fact. Not saying we didn't love our dog, but she needed a firm hand, needed to know who was pack leader, and extreme caution was always exercised regarding strange/new dogs.


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## ILuvGoats123 (May 2, 2013)

happybleats said:


> the rock and hard place here...once a dog crosses that line there is not turning back..you could rehome him where there are no animals or small children..but honestly..that line has been crossed...He is excelling..a little nip on the visiting child...a fun chase after chickens...a few cuts and bruises of the girls before this and now he ripped an ear off...Im not trying to wag a finger...truly Im not..You just need to look at the whole picture...either he has to live his whole life with a muzzle in a pen or on a leash or he will hurt another goat, chicken, child or you. Im sorry but a very hard choice needs to be made..for his sake as well as those in your life....this is not a one time fluke..this is the beginning. I wish you the very best...


I don't think you should re-home him; fence him off. That's what I did with my Great Pyrenees pup when she nearly harmed a couple goats.


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## summerdreamer71 (Jan 25, 2013)

The first time a dog of that size snapped at any child. Especially a two year old! A two year old for crying out loud, practically a baby! Would have been put down, as in shot. If he would have attacked ANY of my animals as he did to your poor goat, he would have been put down. I don't put up woth rowdy animals, they are dangerous. What happens when he grabs a little kid by the troat and kills the child? You can't teach and old dog new tricks, or in this case, manners. He has to go, he is a danger to everything around him.


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## lillyhart (Mar 21, 2013)

summerdreamer71 said:


> The first time a dog of that size snapped at any child. Especially a two year old! A two year old for crying out loud, practically a baby! Would have been put down, as in shot. If he would have attacked ANY of my animals as he did to your poor goat, he would have been put down. I don't put up woth rowdy animals, they are dangerous. What happens when he grabs a little kid by the troat and kills the child? You can't teach and old dog new tricks, or in this case, manners. He has to go, he is a danger to everything around him.


I don't agree with that at all. Dogs are like humans and have people they can't stand to be around just like humans. That doesnt mean that they should be put down. That just means you have to watch them more closely. Sorry that is my opinion.there are always ways to fix a problem if u are willing to spend the time.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

One of my pet peeves is adults allowing children to pull ears and tails and fur, poking and picking at a dog. Then when a dog says enough the adult can't believe what happened . . . Good grief, really??? The child doesn't know better, and the dog is defending itself. Parents need to watch their children and not allow them to torment any dog, and dog owners need to give the dog a personal space that children are not allowed to go. There is NO dog that won't bite, children need to be taught to respect them. There are dogs that should be put down for aggression toward children or people in general, but a dog that nips at a child because that child was allowed to abuse it should not be blamed, the adult should be held responsible.


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

summerdreamer71 said:


> The first time a dog of that size snapped at any child. Especially a two year old! A two year old for crying out loud, practically a baby! Would have been put down, as in shot. If he would have attacked ANY of my animals as he did to your poor goat, he would have been put down. I don't put up woth rowdy animals, they are dangerous. What happens when he grabs a little kid by the troat and kills the child? You can't teach and old dog new tricks, or in this case, manners. He has to go, he is a danger to everything around him.


I'm not sure that the snapping incident was explained correctly.... The childs parents were told repeatedly to not allow their kid to tug his ears, pull his tail, hit him with toys etc. It was after the kid grabbed his ears & tried to hang from them that he pulled away a snapped. It was a warning. Had he wanted to harm him he could have easily. My now 2 yr old grandson was taught to respect dogs but regardless G has never even felt the need to "warn" another human.

Since he is such a submissive boy & knew he was in trouble (he's still belly crawling to me) we have decided to re-enforce the fence & put an underground fencing system around the barn & paddock.

Also time to get him a new friend. We had to rehome his buddy due to my grandsons autism, something about him sent Jayden into hours long fits everytime he even got a glance at him....

Thank you to everyone who gave advice.... This is a very tough time for us.


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## reggalce (May 2, 2013)

NavaBoerFarm said:


> I don't even trust my brothers chihuahua in there.


Personally, I have trouble putting the words trust and chihuahua in the same sentence, but that may be just me.


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## bradboy (Apr 24, 2013)

reggalce said:


> I am trying to decide what kind of dog to get but most of the LGD breeds are just too big, which leaves me wondering how a herding dog would do.


What does LGD stand for?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I dont mean any offence by this, I am purely and completely interested in the answer. 

It seems a lot of people let their dogs in with their goats, and I just wondered why? I guess I have never seen the need to let my dog in with my goats, cos they are completely different animals and I dont see the need to let them meet each other. Dog stays in the backyard, goats stay in the goat paddock. Ducks stay in the chicken coop


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

keren said:


> I dont mean any offence by this, I am purely and completely interested in the answer.
> 
> It seems a lot of people let their dogs in with their goats, and I just wondered why? I guess I have never seen the need to let my dog in with my goats, cos they are completely different animals and I dont see the need to let them meet each other. Dog stays in the backyard, goats stay in the goat paddock. Ducks stay in the chicken coop


Aside from LDGs (that means Livestock guardian Dogs, for the person who asked) who are there for the obvious reason... I think a lot of people just like to have their dog be a farm dog and have the run of the place and/or there pens are such that the fence doesn't keep the dog out.

In the original situation I would simply find a way to keep the dog away from the goats from this point forward. Even the most determined fence climber or digger can be kept in with the right kind of fence, it just takes some thought and effort. Someone mentioned a hot wire around the top and bottom of their dog fence, this works great usually, and doesn't cost much to do. Other options are burying a foot of fencing around the perimeter of the dog pen if they are a digger, or adding some woven wire fencing around the top at in inward angle to prevent climbers.

I love my dogs like crazy, but i know mine are not at all trustworthy around the farm animals. My husband's dog, Dexter, specifically, would kill anything that moved given half the chance. I simply keep him away from the other animals so I can enjoy him and them safely.

I also keep my horse away from my goats, it would be too easy for a big hoof to unintentionally damage a delicate caprine head or leg. They are buddies over the stall wall but that is it.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

Devin said:


> There is NO dog that won't bite


I don't want to offend but I have to disagree. I have a mini poodle that only knows how to bite her food and her toys. She plays with my kitten and only mouths her, even if the kitten bites her full force and pulls her ears. You could do anything to that dog and all she does is wimper/lick/open her mouth. She is the biggest wuss ever and I honest don't think she has it in her to bite


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## summerdreamer71 (Jan 25, 2013)

It doesn't offend me. I just wouldn't want something terrible happen to a child. Where I grew up, it was just common sense that if a dog is killing live stock then he isn't good for anything. Just my opinipn. You know your dog better than I do, so I hope it works out


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

If you've never met a chihuahua you can trust, you've never met a good Chihuahua. LOL! But yeah...I do get the stereotype, as I used to be a groomer. Was bitten by more Labs than anything else. But small dogs were trying hard to keep up.

But as to dogs in the pen - we have LGDs who stay in the pen of course. And then we have Border Collies who are there to work the goats.

And when I had my Boxer, she went *everywhere* with me. That was her job in her mind. When with, she was totally under my control and I had no fear of her pestering the goats, ponies, ducks, or chickens.

Different things work for different people!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm the same as Keren. I see no need to have all animals cohabiting. My dogs have their own area and the goats have their own area. I did have chickens and will again and they will also have their own area.

I can guarantee that my dogs would kill the chickens or the goats. But I have good fences and they don't have any contact.


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

We took in a rescue pit bull mix this past November, he will be a year old next month. While he isn't aggressive to our goats he does like to be a little too friendly to them by licking and trying to chew on their ears. He doesn't have contact with them unless it's supervised by us so we are keeping a close eye on his behavior. We have already decided if he makes any attempt at being aggressive towards the goats he is gone. We can't be worried that he may some how get into the pen and attack. There are too many good dogs out there to keep a dog that will attack.

As for leaving dogs in with goats, we have two dogs that we trust completely with our goats. We have had them for 11 years and we know them. We'll put them in the pen at night if we don't lock the goats in the barn in case coyotes come around. I think you need to really know your dog before you stick it in with your goats unsupervised, our pit mix will probably never be allowed in alone.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

No one can tell you what to do serenityfarmnm~ BUT....keep in mind that you could lose a goat to that dog someday, or possibly something worse....  I say if you keep the dog, keep that in mind that it could happen at anytime.

Personally, I would rehome, but that is just what I would do. Although,if it was mine, it would not _need_ to be rehomed if it had already "nipped" a child.

I also keep my animals separate...well, turkeys,chickens,ducks can be together, but goats and dogs are not, and birds are not in with my goats.And my big dog is afraid of my goats  and my small one (a pom) pays no attention to them whatsoever.

I post this not in a mean or judging manner at all....we all have to make our own choices as to what we want to deal with or not deal with, and how we want to deal with it!

So sorry you are dealing with this.....I hope you find a good solution for everyone involved,you,the goat, and the dog!


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## DonnaBelle66 (Mar 4, 2013)

I have a barn and pasture for the horses, a barn & pasture for the does, a barn and pasture for the buck and his two wether friends.

A chicken house for the the chickens and they have their big chicken lot with a big plum thicket for them to hide in.

The bird dogs have their own big pen with their own kennel to go inside.

No Old McDonald's barn set up for me. For one thing, I can contain the different kinds of poop and clean accordingly.

I don't want my dogs eating goat poop, etc. Chickens pooping in the goat barn. And on and on.

DonnaBelle

DonnaBelle


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm sorry, but a kitten biting a dog is hardly a true test of that dogs character . . . If a dog has teeth he can bite, and people need to respect that and respect him. I have 2 very awesome dogs. The cats eat with them, cuddle with them, the chickens eat their food, and free range, etc . . . One I trust completely with any animal I have on the farm, any child etc. She is my girl, and I have put the time in to train her. 

We work with neglected and abused children, a few live in my house. I do not let any of them play with her unsupervised. Some of them have such control issues that they try to control, and try to hurt if they can't maintain control . . . I would never leave my dog in a situation that would test her character to such a level. The children are working through their own issues, and a dog is something they love but have to be taught how to respect. 

So my dog that is kitten friendly, chicken trustworthy, and I DO allow in the pen with my goats (she kills mice in the barn), I DO NOT leave alone with kids. Not because she is bad, but because she is a dog. I respect her by not putting her in a bad situation, and I demand all children respect her or they are removed from HER space.


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## lillyhart (Mar 21, 2013)

Devin said:


> I'm sorry, but a kitten biting a dog is hardly a true test of that dogs character . . . If a dog has teeth he can bite, and people need to respect that and respect him. I have 2 very awesome dogs. The cats eat with them, cuddle with them, the chickens eat their food, and free range, etc . . . One I trust completely with any animal I have on the farm, any child etc. She is my girl, and I have put the time in to train her.
> 
> We work with neglected and abused children, a few live in my house. I do not let any of them play with her unsupervised. Some of them have such control issues that they try to control, and try to hurt if they can't maintain control . . . I would never leave my dog in a situation that would test her character to such a level. The children are working through their own issues, and a dog is something they love but have to be taught how to respect.
> 
> So my dog that is kitten friendly, chicken trustworthy, and I DO allow in the pen with my goats (she kills mice in the barn), I DO NOT leave alone with kids. Not because she is bad, but because she is a dog. I respect her by not putting her in a bad situation, and I demand all children respect her or they are removed from HER space.


That is the way it should be. I love this.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

How is your goat doing? I had a doe who had the bottom part of her ear almost ripped off (I think it was done by another goat, because my dogs are penned at night and can't get in the goat pen). We took her to the vet ASAP and they sowed it back together, gave it about a 20% chance of taking and it did, luckily the bottom part of the ear didn't die off. If you haven't removed the ear, I would keep an eye on it for it to turn black, if it does it needs to come off as it has died.

As to your dog, we had one that would kill cats, he couldn't get in with the goats but I wouldn't have trusted him alone with them. He loved people, just hated cats (he was a heeler). Gambit is your dog, and if you can get the fencing reinforced so he can't get in the pen, he should be ok. I would just be on high alert anytime you heard any screaming and not leave him loose at night. As far as will a dog bite, if it has a mouth it can bite. People always ask if the camels will bite, I just tell them they will if you put your hand in their mouth.

I personally don't ever let my dogs in the goat pen, they know they are not allowed in there. Both dogs are herding dogs, but I don't want my goats being stressed knowing there is a dog in _their_ pen. I also don't think I would ever get a LGD, I have heard too many horror stories of peoples LGD's killing their goats. Our neighbor had to shoot a couple of LGD's one time because they had escaped from their home and were running his calves through the fence. I like llamas better


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

Sorry it took so long for an update..... Its been tough making decisions,

I think what we are going to try with G first is get another large breed (we've always had 2 big dogs & our 17 # mixed breed rescue (looks like a giant pom lol) & fence about an acre around the house. He is a house dog, our dogs always are. We agreed as a family that if there is anything else that even resembles aggression towards any of the livestock that drastic measures will be taken. I just cant convince myself that this great dog needs to be pts because we decided to change his life at the drop of a hat. I know, he's a dog not a person 

We are budgeting for a 6 ft with barbed wire for the house/pool dog area. In the mean time he is wearing a safety muzzle when he has to go out by himself (this happens sometimes when I'm alone due to my disabilities)

I'm giving up my entire underground pool savings for this fencing but this dog is worth it. My autistic grandson has 2 things that pull him out of his "fits" & G is one of those things. I would give up my goats before taking Jaydens "security blanket" (When he is in super fit mode, G crawls onto his lap &/or snuggles beside him & he calms down almost immediately. 

Thank you all again for the advice!


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## lillyhart (Mar 21, 2013)

Good to hear. Hope everything works out for u.


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