# Getting Closer and need help, please?



## NubianLover (Sep 19, 2010)

Well, first off I haven't been online as my Grandpa had been very sick for over a month. He passed away last Friday. I miss him terribly, but know he is in a better place pain free now.

Now that I finally am able to get online I have a few questions as my girls are getting closer. The last time I posted my one doe had the runs and seemed to have the chills. Well after a few days it did not get any better and vet came out while I was not home. He gave her some meds (I can look it up if needed) and said she would be fine. I asked him to do a fecal (he said he did, but said it would take a while to get results as he had to order some solution... he also said to "just got ahead and use the safeguard since we wormed with the ivermectin when I got them.") Now, I still have not heard back, but I would like to get them wormed. And I know I need to find a different vet. In the mean time is there a place I can send a fecal so I know exactly what to use? I really need to get it done (is it possible to use both the safeguard and ivermectin and what would rotation be like?)

I also asked the vet about shots/what I need to do before my does kid. They are at 3 months and starting to develop udders. I asked about any shots they may need and the response I got was "oh they got them when you purchased them so they don't need them now." I am also worried as this vet does not work at night or on the weekends. I am hoping to find a vet soon, but in the mean time what should I do as far as worming and shots?

Anything else I need to prepare/be prepared for?
Thanks.


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

I would definitely give your does shots CD/T (C & D and Tetanus) 4 weeks before kidding so that there is a transfer to the kids. You can get CD/T at feed stores that carry shots, it should all be together in one bottle.

I would get some BoSe shots from your vet (selenium/vit E) if your soil is deficient (does anyone know if Nebrasks tends to be deficient?) and give the dam some at about the same time you give her the CD/T. Be careful dosing correctly because an overdose of BoSe can be fatal. I would also give a BoSe shot to newborns and again at one month of age (ask your vet for dosage.)

You can worm your pregnant does safely with Safeguard, and I would because it is supposed to kill tapeworms, which Ivermectin will not. I have heard a lot of people say that Safeguard is ineffective due to resistance in worms but it depends on what area you are in. It seems to work well in my area. You can go ahead and worm them again the day after they kid to catch any stragglers.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about your Grandpa ...  :hug: 


I would call the vet back....and find out ...sometimes they get to busy and forget....so call them.... That isn't right they have not let you know.... it would be good to know if they do or don't have worms....

What did the vet give her?

Any vet should be able to do a fecal for you.... 

I agree that safeguard is unknown if it will work in your area...as for us it does not ....  

Not sure if it is safe to give together ... :scratch: 

No matter what you give... if they do have the worms.. I would deworm in 7 to 10 days after the initial dose to get the hatching eggs...
It is better to know for sure if and what kind of worms they have.... it isn't good to treat if they do not have them.... Did you have them do a cocci test as well..? 

1 month prior to kidding give CD&T as already mentioned.... it helps to protect the kids after birth for a short period of time.... :wink: 

If you are not sure on shots...I would give it to them.. as if they never had..... if you don't know the breeder and not sure....if it was done... 

Are you sure... there isn't a vet on call....? Find out...you would call your vets office and there may be ...an answering service... that can get a hold of your vet....in case of an emergency.... after hours or on weekends.. :hug:


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## 7thundersranch (Dec 20, 2010)

Is your doe losing any weight or hair?


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## NubianLover (Sep 19, 2010)

Well here is the thing with the vets. The clinic used to be one (livestock and small animals.) They then decided they only wanted to treat small animals so the one vet went out on his own and is now "mobile." When he came out, I wasn't here. As for during nights/weekends the mobile vet turns off his cell and won't answer and the small clinic won't take livestock calls.
He claims to have done a fecal. I ran into him at my work and his exact words were that I should just go ahead with safeguard even though the test was not complete yet. I think I will, but I also want to use Ivermectin if he doesn't have an answer for me. Is there a way to rotate to use both of them?
Also, the small animal clinic does not want to do livestock fecals for me. :GAAH: So as of right now I may have found a vet, but they are about an hour away. So frusterating!
As for what he gave my doe, I lost the voicemail he left me. All I remember was that it started with an "S." It seemed to have cleared up her runs.
On shots, is it ok to give all my goats their shots? Or do I need to wait until spring for the others? How do I give a shot? I bought the CD&T but have never given a shot myself.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Is it possible that the vet gave her Spectam Scourhalt? It is labeled for piglets but does work well with goats.
As far as the CD/T.... bred does should get 2cc under the skin 4 weeks before their due date to ensure antibodies are present in the colostrum, I do mine over the shoulder, others do them in the skin of the armpit area, it's easier for me to do them over the shoulder. Safeguard is resistant in many areas, parasites have become immune to it. Ivermectin still works here so I'm assuming it's good there too. I worm according to my own fecal results but if you feel your goats are wormy, giving them either ivermectin injectible orally every 7-10 days for 3 doses or when needed I use the horse paste every 10 days for 3 doses. 
As far as giving them all the CD/T at the same time, it will work out if your does are all due around the same time....I have 9 goats, I split them up and do 2 does due within a week of each other with my 3 unbred does on one day and the 3rd doe due a week later with my 3 boys on one day the following week.

You can have fecals run by sending them out to a state lab....WADDL does them as well but do a search for state animal testing labs in your state, it will likely be cheaper and easier to do it this way.


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## NubianLover (Sep 19, 2010)

7thundersranch said:


> Is your doe losing any weight or hair?


None.

Liz, that doesn't sound familiar. It was something he said he "may need to redose if it didn't work." I wish I still had the voicemail. 

Are goats like horses that if you miss the "triangle" you can kill them? That is my biggest worry that I am going to mess up at doing my own shots.

I will see what I can do for fecals. Will the ivermectin get everything? Is it possible to use Safeguard for the 1st 3 days and Ivermectin 10 days later? Or is there a way to rotate? I am just worried with not having a very good goat vet.

I must admit I am an extreme worrier. I want my goats as healthy as possible. They are my babies.


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## icboers (Dec 6, 2010)

I give my CD/T shots SQ (under the skin) in the armpit. I just pinch the skin and pull it out a little and insert the needle under the skin, this way if it leaves a lump it won't be mistaken for CL or an abscess.

I have personally used Safeguard and Ivermec either at the same time or very close together to get different types of worms. The Ivermec will not kill hook worms,stronglyes or tapes. Here is the protocol I used on my goat that came to me basically as a rescue:

Day 1-
Ivermec-dosed by weight( used horse wormer paste)
Safeguard-double dose for weight (used horse wormer paste, also called Panacur, its the same thing)

Day 2-
Safeguard-double dose

Day 3-
Safeguard-double dose.

Then run a fecal in 10 to 14 days. 
Hope you find a good vet that will help you.

Karla


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If you pinch the skin and make a tent, especially in the shoulder area, you insert the needle into the tent, you can pull back on the plunger a bit to be sure you don't get blood....you shouldn't if you choose this area. Safeguard and Ivermectin are 2 different wormers, there are no known effects or interactions between the 2, but if it were me, I wouldn't use the safeguard but would dose each with oral doses of ivermectin. Be sure it is not Ivermectin plus, as there is question as to wether the "plus" is harmful to pregnant does. Be sure to get appropriate weights too...too little wormer does nothing but help build resitance. Because a goat metabolizes meds so quickly, it is neccesary to triple the dose. I give my 50lb pygmy buck the paste ivermectin dose for a 150# pony. Even if you have a bottle of liquid safeguard for goats...triple the dose.
I find that the horse paste is more economical and easier to give.. heres the link to my breakdown on using paste wormers viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15190&start=0


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## NubianLover (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks! Now the Ivermectin can be injected as well, right or is that just the plus? Is it injected the same way as the CD&T or is that injected differently? And that is only dosed 1 not times 3, correct and then would that still be 3 days in a row with a redose in 10 days?

Just kind of weighing my options. I would rather use the Ivermectin this time as I used safegaurd the last time. Then I can run a fecal to the vet.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You can inject the ivermectin but most use it orally with good results.


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## ()relics (Dec 25, 2010)

My first action would be to get the results of your FEC from the vet. If he cannot get them for you go to ANY other vet, even a dog vet can do a fecal float. I would hate for you to deworm your goat when she doesn't have a worm problem. If you determine that she does have a high epg and want to treat her, I wouldn't send in the spanish armada, a battery of various dewormering agents, with her being this far along in her pregnancy. You should really try to get the parasite issues cleared up earlier to avoid any undue stress to the gestating does system late term. If a high egg count is present, treat her with a standard dose of Ivo or Safeguard, whichever you are more comfortable using, just not valbazen. The day after she kids is the ideal time to deworm, as the does' system is at its weakest and the dewormer will give her protection from a "bloom". This is the time you could, again if needed, start your "cocktail treatments".
If you have BoSe now would be a good time to give her a dose. I dose at 2.5cc/100# but that is based on the selenium availability in my area. CD/T now is good too. If you are not sure, Redose her, it won't hurt but will rather just booster her immunity level....Lots of Hay and fresh water and she should give you No more problems...Good Luck


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