# Leash Training an African Pygmy



## PrincessB

[attachment=0:k79iwt20]SANY0167.JPG[/attachment:k79iwt20]I recently got an african pygmy goat, named Beatrice, from a man who kept his goats as pasture goats, with basically no human interaction. She's older, too. About 7-8 months. I want to train her as a companion animal, which involves leash training. I have no experience with training anything except for a dog, but my dog is a good dog so it wasn't hard. I did some research and found out I need a halter (true or false?), but she already has a little harness thingy. it's pink and made for dogs, but it works for her. I used to use a regular old dog collar, but I hated when it choked her. I also need a treat, but the only thing she'll eat is oak leaves, dried up leaves from the ground, and we got her some goat food today (before we were trying to feed her alfalfa and C.O.B, but the chickens were enjoying it more than her) and she's eating that a bit. Through my research, I found out that they'll also eat bread, so I threw some potato bread out there and she nibbled it. I have spent as much time as I can with her and have taken her out on at least one walk a day. She has improved from doing backflips on the leash, to resisting as much as she can. I try not to stress her out too much, and she's really good when you just sit down with her and pet her. I've begun to think she doesn't like me when I stand up straight. 
:whatgoat: 
How am I supposed to go about this? I just want to walk her around on a leash, but I feel like I'm doing it wrong. Should I not take her on walks, or is that good? What kind of rewards can I give her that she'd be guarunteed to eat? Do I really need a goat halter?
[attachment=0:k79iwt20]SANY0167.JPG[/attachment:k79iwt20]


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## liz

With your supervision, attach the leash and let it trail , be watchful she doesn't get hung up on anything, this will get her used to feeling that little bit of weight, I know it's not the best thing to use for a treat but my goats LOVE jellybeans, see if she'll like the healthier sweet treat of raisins first.

She feels intimidated by you towering over her, let her get to know you and bond with you before you try the leash...sit on the ground with her with your treats and let her come to you, then offer the goodies while you stand once she knows that you won't hurt her. The walking on a leash takes time and patience, goats are smart, she'll learn fast but trusting you is what she needs to do first.
She's pretty...she looks similar to mty little nigi/pygmy cross doe Heidi.


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## PrincessB

Thank you. That's really helpful. I'll try it. :thumbup: I spend most of the afternoon with her today doing my school work and she started walking up to me. It was pretty exciting. I've found she likes the cheese coating on Cheetos, which is good because I love Cheetos. :greengrin:


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## TiffofMo

If your always out around them they will come around and will love going on walks. I got a 7 month old pygmy Nigerian back in January. She was totally wild would not let no one with in 10 ft of her. As of today all of us can pet her and love on her and she LOVES going on the walks i take her on as she gets to eat clover and other yummy weeds. Find out the grasses she likes in your yard and take her to them and set beside her after a few days she will beg you to get that leash on and will drag you out of the pen. Believe me lol bad thing is i got to teach my kids to lock the gates better as know they always want out lol.


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## lissablack

It just takes a little longer. You might try roasted salted peanuts. In the shell. That is the only treat mine get, and they go nuts over them once they taste one. They have been a huge help socializing a shy goat and they aren't horrible for them.

Jan


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## milk and honey

My goats really love black oil sunflower seeds (like bird seed) but they REALLY love raisins.. Sounds like you're doing really well so far.. It just takes lots of patience . I've got to get my goats used to leash training too. Mine are (too??) friendly but they need to have more manners taught to them...


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## naturalgoats

I might try a halter rather than the harness.... if you think about it the harness is just where she can pull on it with the most success... once she gets more confidant she might start just constantly dragging.... she's a pygmy so you can control her but it might not be very pleasant.... I'm glad she is getting more confident around you... I do school with my boys as well... just watch out or one day you will have to tell your teacher "I'm really sorry but my goat ate my homework"


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## Squires

When I was in 4H several of the people in my 4H club had untrained goats. When you spend time with your goat, she or he will want to go places with you -- they are very sociable. BUT sometimes they just want to be contrary. If they learn that you will get upset over them choking, they will fake a choking attack, and the miniute you let go of the leash or collar they are off like a flash!  

If you can teach your goat to behave on a leash or when led by the collar by using treats, and gradually reducing the frequency of treats so that the goat looks forward to walking with you and looks forward to an occasional treat in the future, you will be fine. Try not to feed too much bread, grain or even raisins -- goats can founder. Some goats, such as pygmies, are not really meant to live on high-grain, high-carb diets and can get sick -- it is a bit like diabetes, but in addition their feet will swell and the hooves can become deformed and bones in the foot can actually turn and come thrugh the bottom of the foot - -really bad. Was just discussing with someone locally how a person fed their animals too much corn and bread and caused founder.

Make a tiny piece of bread or a couple grains of corn or sunflower a special treat. Make the goat work for that treat - -step forward or stand still fore a few seconds, then a few minutes, then many minutes between treats. 

If she knows that it upsets you to see her choke, she will put on a dramatic display of choking at every opportunity just to make you stop asking her to do things. If you can grit your teeth and keep walking, that may be the fastest way to train her. Of course it is nicer all round if you can teach her to look forward to a treat -- but do not make it a bribe or overfeed her. 

Some people with large Boer buvk goats will use a prong-collar -- they say that it can be used on any size goat and the goats learn quickly to stand quietly and walk nicely. It does NOT hurt them or even annoy them when they are quiet, and, it is better to teach an animal good manners from the start, than to guarantee them a trip to the butcher when they misbehave and annoy someone too much. Training your goat now while it is young is one of the best things you can do to make its whole life better. Follow your heart but also be firm -- and do what works for you and your particular goat.

Best wishes,
Chris


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## KW Farms

I don't think I would want to take a chance that a goat is "faking" choking. I honestly don't believe that goats are that smart to try and trick their owner like that.  It could end very badly should the goat choke to death because you thought it was pretending to choke. 

Prong collars can be effective when used correctly, but they can cause pain if used incorrectly. I personally wouldn't recommend a prong collar for this particular goat. :thumb:


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## Squires

Oh, I believe that they KNOW we care about them, they KNOW we get frightened when they make choking sounds. They KNOW they are cute! And they wrap us around their little fingers, er, hooves.  

Goats. The great manipulators! 

Seriously, I would be careful with any collar on any animal -- some animals will panic with new things. However, once they get the idea that they have to wear a collar they will calm down and accept it. Dragging a leash under supervision, tying out under supervision, and going on walks in the back yard or home-pen is a good introduction.

I use dog or stretchy cat collars for daily use, especially for very small goats, and like the collars to be loose enough that if caught the goat can just slip out of it. 

But there are times when you are doing a specific type of training. You use a chain slip collar or prong collar for the show ring -- or for training for the show ring. It is only on for a short time, while training or at the ring. The goat learns the limits of the restraint, and they will learn how to push their limits. They WILL fake choking to get free. The way you learn this about goats is to let go of their collar when they make that sound, and watch them bolt out of the ring after some grass or grain or other goodie they had their eye on! 

At a certain point you do need to have control of your animal. I guess it doesn't seem as important with the smaller goats. As a friend who raised parrots told me, you can let the little guys get away with things that would be dangerous with a big guy. And they are so cute, so it seems OK. BUT, in an emergency, it is better to have an animal or bird that is well-behaved.

Don't underestimate the intelligence of a goat! You will be at an advantage during an emergency if your goats are trained to always come when called, and to walk quietly with a collar or your arm around their neck. 

Chris (in memory of Foxhollow Emily, one canny goat!)


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## naturalgoats

I agree w/KW on the choking... I've trained both my goats to lead and they don't learn to fake choking if you don't chok them in the first place... I do know however that they are clever and will manipulate you... Pippin learned that if he pull the rubber band of the end of my braid that i would stop trying to get him to do something and but it back on....


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## Squires

I just want to politely disagree. A goat does not have to actually choke to learn how to play-act choking. My first 4H goat, Emily, probably just dipped her head with a jerk the first time and I let go of the collar for fear of hurting her, and she was off. She developed her act into full-blown coughing, sputtering, rolling her eyes, and if that didn't get my attention, to collapsing her knees as if she were falling. Since she was a BIG goat, I was afraid she might pass out and strangle, so I would let go of the collar, and she would be off to the races! Off to grab some nice grass or somebody else's grain she could steal from -- whatever caught her eye. She did this in a 4H practice session and I was taught how to ignore "goat drama" -- these goats are sometimes smarter than us! And not so sentimental.

Just like a child might throw a screaming, crying temper tantrum because it is in a bad mood, and not necessarily injured in any way, a goat can decide that it doesn't like any pressure at all on its neck and throw it's own kind of temper tantrum. When the human pauses or lets go of the leash, or changes their behavior in any way, the goat notices -- and tries for more effect. Thus we train our animals to manipulate us.

Unfortunately, many spoiled children grow up to be spoiled and difficult adults. Just so, many spoiled young goats grow up to be bigger, spoiled goats. It isn't so bad with a Pygmy or Nigie, but can be disastrous with a big Nubian wether. 

No criticism intended, but, when you let your goat do something to make you stop or change your behavior -- like stopping to re-tie your hair (I can remember that one from my childhood goats!) you are training them to manipulate you. It may be "cute" to you but it may mean a trip to the butcher to a future owner. When I was learning about handling parrots, my mentor told me that no matter how much it hurts, you can not cry out or make any sort of dramatic behavior or sound when a parrot bites you, because that rewards the parrots -- many large parrots are entertained by screaming humans and you can train them to bite that way. Then you wonder why you hear about poor birds left in their cages in the basement for years on end. Or little goats left in their pen, neglected in the backyard.

I just feel that it is our responsibility, as the responsible parties in this relationship of human-and-critter, to teach them good manners so that they will always be welcome and loved for the rest of their lives, and that their lives will be long and good. I'm just hoping that in trying to be kind to your animals that you do not become so over-sensitive that the animal becomes one of those manipulative spoiled brats.

I'm working with a four month old kid and a five week old kid -- both Nigies. I don't haul them around until they choke, but there are times when they throw themselves back and the older one did start coughing. Ho hum. I stood still and gave her a chance to think about it. I have also held her on the milk stand with her nose in a pan of food, and she has learned to stand quietly and let me handle her all over (this is a baby who was born wild, and due to our bad winter and spring, did not get this handling earlier). She is still wild as a deer at times, that is her personality, but she will follow me a bit and is eager to get her taste of grain at the stand. When the little one backs up and puts pressure on her collar, I sometimes tickle her or nudge her hind leg and she eases forward and releases the pressure on her collar. Thus she learned that if the collar bothers her, she can relieve pressure by calmly moving forward. Takes time. I handle the babies a little bit each day and they are learning. No strangling or screaming, and only a little bit of dragging. 

I was given a dog who was trained under the NSTFL premise -- there is No Such Thing as a Free Lunch -- you live with me, you cooperate and practice good manners. It is such a relief after living with dogs and other critters who don't have good manners. I think the same should go for goats.

If we love them, we can try to make their lives longer and better.

No offense intended, just my humble opinion.

Chris


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## missy

Thanks everyone for the tips about training on leashes. I have collars (for handles) to get our goats home in but haven't bought halters or harnesses yet, I just don't know how small to get them. I'm storing up this information...

As for the goat hissie fits, I would believe it. Animals are smart and between smartness and natural instinct they can get up to all manner of mischief to make their people do what they want them to do. Calves do the same thing, except they have death fits! Try to make a calf go somewhere it doesn't want to go and it will throw itself down, roll it's head and eyes back and play dead. It is truly worrying the first time it happens to you but it makes a great story later on. Eventually though, when it learns that death fits don't work, it stops bothering with it, gets up and walks! 

Can't wait to get up to speed on goat antics as well, I bet goats can create hilarious stories!


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## PrincessB

missy: I buy everything for my pygmy in medium for dogs. It fits her nicely, but with a harness like hers, it has to be tightened all the way in the front and very little in the back.

everyone else: Thanks for the tips. This is really helpful. She's getting better. She's finally figured out that I am her herd and she needs me. I bring the food and take her to where the yummy grasses and leaves are. I haven't had a problem with choking ever since I switched the collar for the harness, but she does realize that she can slip her legs out of it when she pulls back on it. I try to act like nothings wrong, I just worry about it slipping off and her realizing that it works. She's actually become very attached to me. We had to put two feet of chicken wire on top of her pen because she jumped over it to get to me. But as long as she's happy, I am.
:laugh:


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## Squires

You might try one of the adjustable figure-8 harnesses. One loop around the neck, one around the chest behind the elbows. and the straps cross behind the neck (area of the withers). They are a little harder to slip out of.  

She looks like a very contented goat.  

Chris


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## BabieandHarleyaremygoats

Hi I recently got a goat and first you get her to trust u by spoiling her with treats and blankets u want her follow u in her pen first then let her get used to a color or harness for 1 or 2 days then get a friend to help use a long leash hold the end and next to her have ur friend hold the middle and stand on the other side walk slowly then get up to speed occasionally slightly lift up on leash and/or tap on back when not following and keep treats in ur pocket give one at end and make sure practicing turning. Hope it work I did this with my pygmyandwe are best friends now


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