# what am I doing wrong?



## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

I milk 4 Does. I am getting blood settling in the bottom of the jar from 3 Does after 3 days of sitting in the frig. The one doe I'm not getting blood from is nursing her doeling. I'm wondering if I'm milking them out too much. Is there such a thing? I milk every last scrid of milk I can get. I'm wondering if I shouldn't do that. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong and why I'm getting blood. I've been dumping the milk. I think that's where my off taste is coming from. I wanted to see who was giving the blood so I put each doe's milk in a separate jar and labled it. Can anyone give me advice on what to do?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It might be where you have your hands on the teats or if you are squeezing hard. You may be breaking blood vessels. I milk my girls out totally with no problems.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

I was wondering that too. one of my does is hard to milk. She doesn't let down very well and I do have to put a lot of pressure on her to get the milk out but that doesn't explain the other two. I just don't know why I'm getting blood. No one is sick and I've tested for mastitis so maybe it is my milking technique? I know I'm a little discouraged.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is there anyone around you who could come over and see your milking technique? I think that is where you need to start.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks Karen. I didn't have that problem last year and I haven't changed my milking style. All three Does are heavy milkers. They each give me around 5lbs per milking. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Could be.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

You could try giving them some vitamin c on their feed. Fragile capillaries can cause a little bit of blood in the milk and vitamin C will help strengthen them. Selenium and vitamin E are also linked to mammary health, have they had a shot of Bo-Se recently?

Are you just milking their teats, or are you milking up more on the udder? Do they have small teats?


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

ptgoats45. I do have some chewable vit c I could give them. Also have the selenium & vit e gel. They have not had a shot of Be-Se. I have to say I do milk more up on the udder at times because one of them have mall teats and the other one has a crocked teat. Maybe that's it but I'm not milking differently than last year. The other one has great teats and I don't milk up on her udder. She also has a small residue of blood. I really appreciate all of your help in helping me to figure this out. I'm going to try to just milk their teats tonight to see if that makes a difference.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

The vitamin C may help you, you can just give them any kind of citrus peelings, or just get some human vitamin c and add to their feed.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Are you squeezing above the teat? Thats a common mistake by lots of people who hand milk and can cause issues. I know the flies are bad this year and we are getting what looks like gnats and the are biting the Does on the udders and leaving tiny flakes of blood that fall off into the milk. Just recently we started using a fly repellant and that seems to help. Just have to wash it off before milking...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Gertie~ so sorry to hear this....I know you'll figure it out :hug:

What an informative thread....I love all the different suggestions! I would definitely do the BO-SE or gel....maybe give the vitamin c too....if they didn't have this problem last year from your technique, why would they this year? 
I'd also do what TDG said...maybe it is fly related? I hate those pesky things


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Only thing I can think of is you're milking them out too dry, OR you're not clamping the tit off and milk is being pushed back into the udder. I like to milk until the bag is empty but the teats aren't wrinkled and shriveled up (all the way empty). I massage their udders as well to make sure proper let down. Any longer milking and long-term is hard on the teat ends.

How fast are you milking, maybe you're just too rough?


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I don't think it's the flies because it settles to the bottom of the jar after a couple of days. I do have to admit I do go above the teat onto the udder but I always did that. But I am changing that, started tonight when I milked. Only the teat will get squeezed from now on. I have dumped milk or given it to the chickens because after a couple of days it tastes goaty. I think it's coming from the blood. Besides that it kinda turns my stomach just thinking about it being there!!! I'm sure this to shall pass! ( :


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

NyGoatMom, I think I'm hijacking my own thread HEHEHE but I meant to tell you on your thread about your new Saanen coming. I LOVE THE NAME MADELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL...I guess you can hijack your own thread!  And, thank you, I thought it was cute for her too....

I am also going to be milking a tad different after this thread...I tend to milk until "wrinkly" but I will change that tomorrow!


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

I feel a little discouraged tonight. I just dumped 5 gals of milk because of blood that had settled to the bottom of the jars. I've changed my milking style, not sure how long I should see an improvement. What does the vit C and bo-se do to help the blood vessels from braking?


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Gertie said:


> I feel a little discouraged tonight. I just dumped 5 gals of milk because of blood that had settled to the bottom of the jars. I've changed my milking style, not sure how long I should see an improvement. What does the vit C and bo-se do to help the blood vessels from braking?


Have you sent a sample into the vet to see if there is a bacteria in the udder?


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Am very bummed to hear that you are still getting blood in the milk... I went ahead and did some more in depth research. And as long as you know its not mastitis, here is what I found.

Its not terribly uncommon for the capillaries in a does udder to pop when kids consistently hit it to hard, when a doe is producing larger amounts then say the previous year or are to over uddered to often or when a yearling comes into a good amount of milk. Or if they are being milked incorrectly or to hard. Either by hand or by a milking machine that the PSI is turned up to high. All these cases can have the same result. Blood showing up in the bottom of milk containers, even if a milk filter is used.

A second possibility is they may be getting to much iron in their water. Typically if you have rusty old pipes or see rust stains in your tub, this could indicate to much iron. AND if you are then feeding an mineral mix or supplement of iron, it could just be to much for a goat to take in and they can pass the extra into their milk. Granted, this one has no clinical testing so its more a shot in the dark if its true or not. 

How to fix it: Vitamin K can help with clotting, which in turn helps the vessels heal. Use the human dosage for 7 straight days.

Hope this helps and leads to a fix for you.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

TDG, I can't thank you enough for this information. You know you just might of hit on something. We do have old pipes BUT the blood started showing up after they ate a ton of the Mana Pro minerals I have for them. It worried me that they were getting too much because they couldn't seem to get enough of it. I expressed my concern to my Hubby and he didn't think they would over eat it. The one Doe that isn't giving me blood hardly gets any of the minerals!!! Her milk is still sweet with no blood after 4 days!!! Hmmmmmmmmm, now I wonder. So, I think I should try the vitamin K. That scares me a little because I hate to give them anything they aren't use to. Do you think it would hurt them or mess up their rumen? Maybe I should limit the minerals? Again, thanks so much for the information.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

mjs, I have not sent in a sample but am ready to do just that. The milk turns goatie tasting after 2 days and when the blood appears in the bottom of the jar. But I think TDG is on to something with the iron.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Goats / people usually get the vit k they need from green foliage. It is also produced by bacteria in the gut. So technically it never needs to be used as a supplement. But in this case it would just be used to help stop the bleeding. I could find no where that side it can be bad to give. In fact I keep coming across comments from vets and breeders who often give their goats human multi vitamins and supplements. So a human dosage of K should be perfectly safe.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks. I really think the iron is the problem. I can't believe how much milk I've dumped. The chickens and dog can only drink so much! I sure hope this is it.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How is it going? I'm so hoping you find out what it is....I know i will be copper bolusing once a year at least. It has made a HUGE difference....I also have a lot of iron in my water and high maganese in my hay....

So you're trying the Vit K?


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

The vitamin C is supposed to also help strengthen the capillaries.


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## Gertie (Sep 2, 2012)

NyGoatMom, thanks for thinking of me. It is actually getting better. I did not use the Vit K. I stopped the minerals for now and gave them Calcium Citrate with Potassium and Magnesium. I will start the minerals back up but give it to them when I feed instead of free choice. I'm still seeing a little "pink milk" in the bottom of the jars after 3 days but not much. I have let the milk set for 3 days as I want to be sure of when it is all cleared up. I'm glad the copper bolus worked for you. I am afraid to do that but probably should do it once a year too. 

ptgoats45, thanks so much for that information.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Note: If you do have high iron in your water, it does block some of the copper absorption. Check you minerals - I'm not sure if you have it where you are. I use a loose mineral by chs/payback feed called 16:8 it is very balanced for us especially with the selenium, proper cal./phos ratio. I no longer have to use a copper bolus at all


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That is good news! I would definitely monitor intake of minerals ...but you know...when I first got mine the manna pro...they ate it like candy....now they don't touch it much...


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