# IM SOOOOOOO MAD I COULD SLAP SOMEONE!!!



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

So, as many goat breeders know you ARENT advised to keep a buck out a first freshener. Heres my story

I have this "friend" who is pretty much ruining the breed of nigerian dwarf goats. She has some ok goats some with AMAZING lines and she pretty much abuses them. NOT PHYSICALLY. But she breeds her nice does to bucks and doest look for confirmation or bloodlines. Shes a color breeder, thats all she cares about. 

Well, I have 2 bucks(at the time) which I offered for stud service. I had someone use them, she was in my 4H group. about 2 months after she used Sunny, she had to sell both her does because they were escaping from her fencing. She sold them to the "friend" that is BAD with breeding.

One was bred, one wasnt THANK GOODNESS! The nicer one didnt take. WELL the one that did take has 2 babies, one doe and one buck. I "trusted" this "friend" so gave her papers for the breeding memo and assumed she would take responsibilty....

SHE DIDNT. She sold the boy as a buck! This doe was a FF and she barely knew anything about her or her lines. It just makes me mad when people do this. That boy has my lines and I really didnt want her to do that, when I asked her to wether him she told me not to tell her how to raise her goats when shes been raising themfor 15 years.....SHS ONLY 15 :GAAH: :hair: 

And on another note.... I have a questions for all breeders, How much is your stud fee?
She, the "friend" got a buck and I will admit hes good, not that good though. Shes charging $75 for people to use him. The famous Castle Rock farms home of Montego Bay and a bunch of NICE bucks, charges only $60 per doe. Now I KNOW for a fact this buck is NOT better then any CastleRock buck. I just think thats WAY overpriced....he doesnt have freshened daughters and hes never been shown....


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

WOOO GO LAURA!!  lol  u said everything i wanted to say!!
may i add she HATES advice given to her.... :hair:


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

bahahaha yes I forgot to add....IF anyone even someone really experienced nd nice gives just a little advice about a breeding pair shes gets all crazy and yells.....because "she knows how to raise HER goats"
Shes giving them a bad name.....UGH I wish we could take her goats away.....

From now on Im not helping her with anything goat related. No letting her use my bucks or anything......


----------



## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

doesn't sound good. can't you contact the association and see if they can re-voke the papers, if you don't want the buckling out of your buck to be reg, I'm sure they can do something. 

I charge $40. to my FB Reg. Boer, but his genetics are used a lot up here and its time for some new ones, a nice FB Boer up here could successfully be studded out for $70-80 per doe, but there aren't many, in any nice ones here yet.


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Just a note for next time when you sign breeding memos, you can get doe-only memos from AGS and for ADGA I just write in bold, capital letters "DOE KIDS ONLY" at the top. That way it for sure will not happen again.

What a bummer. I cannot stand it when stuff like that happens. . .


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

I think hes already been registered though....could I still do that if hes registered? Plus she sold him and hes already at his new home :veryangry: 


Ya I would understand a really nice buck, could be studded out for alot but when they arent that good or common, they should be priced cheaper.


Olivia: When I gave her the papers I asked her to not keep any bucks and she promised me she wouldnt.....I thought I could trust her


----------



## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

okay, olivia has a great point, doe kid only. 

I'm guessing if she's already sold him it's too late, sorry you're dealing with this :hug:


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

UGH thanks guys for helping! Next breeding season ALLLLLL DOE ONLY MEMOS lol


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

....sorry laura...... lol dont u just LOVE how she said ur old buck and her doe that u/her never showed was a champ...she LIES sooo much...


----------



## Bebop (Feb 26, 2010)

Sorry for my lack of experience but why is it bad to keep a buck out of a FF? I just put a deposit on a buck out of one... O_O


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Seriously.....I mean sunny wasnt that good, he was ok. He never showed EVER and neither did cookie. I love how they are "champion parents"

JESSICA!!! Um well its nt bad...its just you dont really know how the udder will turn out so alot of breeders wait to sell bucks until they have seen the udder


----------



## Bebop (Feb 26, 2010)

Oh! Okay, so I'm good, the breeder was telling me that she does have a really nice udder for a FF, and parents and grandparents are all around from awesome genetics.


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Welll most breeders wait for a long time before doing that so they know wat to look for so yes I would say you are good. lol


----------



## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

One thing about the Doe Only service memos. If you are going through the AGS ONLY give the doe only service memo because it is different. Don't just write on the top because people can and will cut what you wrote off the top. 

Another thing, selling a buck out of a FF isn't terrible. There are a lot of very good breeders who will sell bucks out of FF's. 

Not saying this lady did the right thing, or that she is a good or bad person. What she did would have pissed me off too. :hug:


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok thanks! I will print some of those out!

I know some bucks from experienced breeders out of FFs are GREAT! Like Guy Noir from castle rock, hes one of there best bucks and hes from a FF. But this girl is a BAD BREEDER, she lies, complain when you give her advice and thinks shes doing theright thing....
BUT as a famous breeder once told me.....at least we wont have to worry about her when we are against her at a show


----------



## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

it happens, shrug it off, you can't make everyone smarter ( and i think i know who it is, and if it is, there's no hope anyway) so just let it go and let her build up bad karma


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Hmmm not sure you know....say her name lol


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I am sorry you had an issue like this but once a goat is sold bred you really have no say in how the kids are registered unless you hold the papers on the doe. Basically in the future you now know what to do and hopefully it doesnt happen again to you. 

I know its frustrating and its upsetting but lets not get carried away saying blanket statements about selling and breeding FF's kids.


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

Well in most cases it is bad to have a buck from a FF unless they reek out freken amazingness!! 

and im sure she did not mean to make it sound "bad" about FF bucks, but most responsibe breeders dont sell FF bucks unless they know thats the best buck from that doe


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

Stacey: I never meant to hurt anyone. I feel we should all have our opinions and that is my opinion. I have seen great bucks from FF but in this case with my friend, that buck should of been wethered

VEERRRRY true LIZ


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

AMENS SISTA
U SAID IT ALL!! 




 HAHA


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.funny-games.biz/cartoon/smoked-cat.html

this is ME right now!!
BAHAHAHA try not to laugh at this!!!


----------



## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Question on ff's -- you don't want to keep a buck until you see how the doe will milk? IS that it?


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

citylights said:


> Question on ff's -- you don't want to keep a buck until you see how the doe will milk? IS that it?


Yes, with FF it is really impossible to know exactly what potential her udder has, in some cases though, there are breeders that are BLESSED to have awesome udders on their FF, in most cases , such as mine with Binkey her previous owner dried her off with her FF because her udder was small...she freshened her 2nd time with me and her udder was quadruple the size it was her FF. Her capacity was awesome with just over 2qts a day at peak.

So, with FF it is at most best to wait until they are at 2nd or even 3rd freshening to see if her boys are buck worthy.


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Ditto what Liz said -- also, attachments can change drastically after a doe freshens a 2nd time. Sometimes those changes are good, sometimes they are not. I choose not to sell bucks out of FF's but we're all different.


----------



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally don't - but I don't have those BIG udders quite yet that I have seen on some First Freshners. But I think it is the responisibility of the breeder to be trying to better the breed and not make a quick buck (no pun intended).... by really only selling bucks that are worthy - but then again it is also on the buyer to be educated on what they need to look at for a buckling.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow, that is really rotten Laura! Some people these days...


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

hehe thanks....Im over it now, if she wants to screw people over, thats on her


----------



## Lizzy_18 (Feb 15, 2010)

yep it is


----------



## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

kelebek said:


> I personally don't - but I don't have those BIG udders quite yet that I have seen on some First Freshners. But I think it is the responisibility of the breeder to be trying to better the breed and not make a quick buck (no pun intended).... by really only selling bucks that are worthy - but then again it is also on the buyer to be educated on what they need to look at for a buckling.


 :applaud: I COMPLETELY agree


----------



## farmergal (Jun 19, 2009)

Sorry about that it sounds like this person is a real pain in the butt  Does this person happen to post on Craigslist a lot? I remember looking at one greater bay area ND website that seemed like it had waaaay too many buck kids on offer....

as for the whole bucks-out-of-FF debate I think it's really about making intelligent decisions there. like some breeders have a general rule (as at Castle Rock) but then occasionally break it when they see an amazing FF udder and know the line/genetics well enough that they think it will hold up over time. Guy Noir's dam is now a finished champ... so that was clearly not a bad decision! but in the case of your non-friend it sounds like she just does whatever will get her the most $$.... which is no good for her reputation in the long run.


----------

