# Here is a $9000 percentage doe



## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

This super nice doe was the high selling doe at the Sale of Stars. She was out of TEEL's show string. Very nice to see in person and she continues to light the shows on fire.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow!


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

She has 8 overall grands in ABGA shows so far.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

very pretty doe...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow that is a lot! Beautiful doe!

Not to sound rude or anything...I truly am just curious. But how can a doe that expensive pay for herself? Or is that not expected? I just can't picture purchasing a doe for that much and ever getting your money back or having that doe make such an impact in a herd that would be $9,000 worth. She looks like a beautiful doe and i'm sure her new owners are quite pleased with their purchase. Congrats to them!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

they flush her and get several kids a year out of her and her kids are worth 2 to 10 thousand each they would get their money back.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

2k to 10k is a pretty big price difference. I've never heard of boer kids selling for as much as 10k, but i'm not in the boer loop so maybe that's not unheard of? Why would someone pay that much though?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> Why would someone pay that much though?


those were the exact words out of my husbands mouth when I showed him the 9k doe! lol

I guess if you were breeding for a specific purpose? I duuno.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

KW Farms said:


> 2k to 10k is a pretty big price difference. I've never heard of boer kids selling for as much as 10k, but i'm not in the boer loop so maybe that's not unheard of? Why would someone pay that much though?


Because they're awesome!


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> Because they're awesome!


+1 Tim

That pairing was super ovulated and they got a lot of embyros. Two of her twin sisters are NATIONAL GRAND CHAMPION BEST PAIR OF PERCENATGE DOES. She could be flushed and get a lot of viable embyros. I heard of a flush that produced 23 embyros. My new buck was an embryo transfer, he has 5 brothers and numerous sisters.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

They lost me on the bidding when it zoomed past $3k.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

How is she bred? Does she have popular whether maker breeding?


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> How is she bred? Does she have popular whether maker breeding?


ABGA #10563460 She is out of a buck of 4-Ms that is AK47. I don't think the dame is one of Joe's 900 influenced does, but it could be because they use a lot of them, but 4M doesn't. I'll ask next time. I got one of Teel's does also. She is out of those 900 influence does that they have done so good with..


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## imthegrt1 (Jan 13, 2013)

I guess that guy that won the 600 million lottery is buying goats now......


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Its the ability to get flushes fromt this doe. She will have several babies on the ground each year an she wont even have to leave the show ring. Put her eggs with a very nice buck an several of those babies could be 9000 dollar babies.

I watched a buck in Texas sell last year. They were gonna wether him but then decided not to but not before they disbudded him. So you couldnt show him as a buck an you would have had to cut him to show as a wether an he was already 8 months old. He brought 17 thousand!! I boout fell outta my recliner!!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I second what Tenacross about her being awesome!

These Goats pay for themselves in flushes and reputation. Its human nature to want the best so if your winning people will pay more for all your goats. Regardless if whether that particular goat can win or not. People pay more for reputation than anything.... can't wait for the day I own a beautiful girl like her.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

2 wethers sold in Texas the other day for $10k.....................EACH!!!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> 2 wethers sold in Texas the other day for $10k.....................EACH!!!


Its crazy how high they go for! Who sold those two? I remember seeing it but I forgot who it was. I'm just glad I'm not trying to show wethers in Texas... I just think I'm broke in NC. I'd be homeless in Texas lol


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

This doe wins every weekend. Her sisters win every weekend. She will most likely win big at Nationals, just like last time. She will be ennobled before she is 2 years old. If I was on the road showing every weekend, I would want this doe in my string. She won in East Texas the weekend after she sold. She has many years in front her.

These does just don't hit the sale ring very often. When they do, people who travel to every show snatch them up for their string. When you have a $125k plus in goat hauler rig and pay the fuel bill, that $9k for wins is just another write off.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Its just mind blowing to watch them production sales in TX. Im always thinkin if I just had 2 I could sell there Id take the rest of the year off!!


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> Its crazy how high they go for! Who sold those two? I remember seeing it but I forgot who it was. I'm just glad I'm not trying to show wethers in Texas... I just think I'm broke in NC. I'd be homeless in Texas lol


I don't know. I was talking to somebody the other day and the subject came up about wethers. They were like did you hear about the two wethers that sold for $10k in Texas? I said " $10k is a lot for two wethers." He said "It's $20k. They were 10 each" I was


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> ABGA #10563460 She is out of a buck of 4-Ms that is AK47. I don't think the dame is one of Joe's 900 influenced does, but it could be because they use a lot of them, but 4M doesn't. I'll ask next time. I got one of Teel's does also. She is out of those 900 influence does that they have done so good with..


Yeah, that sire is not obvious wether breeding. Maybe they just wanted to buy a doe they could take to nationals and win with. It's just money. If they had big flush plans, you'd think they had the wether market in mind with a 50%, but what do I know.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> Yeah, that sire is not obvious wether breeding. Maybe they just wanted to buy a doe they could take to nationals and win with. It's just money. If they had big flush plans, you'd think they had the wether market in mind with a 50%, but what do I know.


High end % does are hot right now. Kay sold off all of her fb and is only doing %. She is also dating steady now so that could be part of it also lol.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

When we were at ABle Acres he had not one put two bucks standing right there in front of us that he had 30,000 and 40,000 into. Yes, that is the right number of zeros. And get this the $40,000 one was only a lease with the right to breed him for a certain number of months. 

His stock sells for 10,000 and 20,000 all the time. The prices in the 7,000 and 8,000 range are very very common on his farm. But you can get your hands on a few for in the 2,000 range. 

Our neighbor just down the road is spending 10,000 to 15,000 on his rams for his farm that kind of money is not unheard of. 

The reason there is such a big range (2,000 to 10,000) and actually it probably is more like 2,000 to 20,0000 is because just like you and your syblings, we are all different. Full brothers and sisters aren't all the same. There is a big range of type and quality. Also, an occasional buck will go for a ton of moneY were does normally level out at a lower price. 

Since your buck is such an important part of your herd it would not be uncommong from a special buck to go for crazy crazy money like the 30,000 and 40,000 dollar bucks. 

Bucks on Able Acres website herd sire page are all in the thousands and thousands of dollars. Heck the right to bed to them live coverage is $1,000 just for that. A tiny straw of semen is $100.00.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt these big wether shows pay alot to the winners. I thought I heard somewhere that its like 100 grand to win the big show?


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> High end % does are hot right now. Kay sold off all of her fb and is only doing %. She is also dating steady now so that could be part of it also lol.


Well, that doe was hot, but she is one of the best percentage does in the entire country. I could go for "percentages are bringing really good money right now if they can win in the ring", but in the ABGA breeding stock show goat world, percentages are never going to be inherently worth more that FBs. You are lucky if their are 30 does total in the entire show for percentages. It's difficult to acquire points and the buck kids aren't worth much unless they can win as whethers. Of course as we've all seen, if it's the hot whether maker breeding, the papers or percents don't mean anything at all. Just my take.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

I agree Tim! Well put.  

This is a very interesting thread! I have enjoyed reading through it.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> Well, that doe was hot, but she is one of the best percentage does in the entire country. I could go for "percentages are bringing really good money right now if they can win in the ring", but in the ABGA breeding stock show goat world, percentages are never going to be inherently worth more that FBs. You are lucky if their are 30 does total in the entire show for percentages. It's difficult to acquire points and the buck kids aren't worth much unless they can win as whethers. Of course as we've all seen, if it's the hot whether maker breeding, the papers or percents don't mean anything at all. Just my take.


Yes they have to be able to win in the ring. That old percentage doe out in my pasture and yours is not the hot item.

It is a niche market. No they shouldn't be worth more and I didn't say they were. I think there are the same amount of classes for % does as there are for FBs. This gives more chances for a picture with a ribbon for the breeders website. Wins are good publicity. There are less percentage does at show, so it should be easier to win the class. The points are difficult to aquire, unless you are winning the overall, like this doe and the ones that are selling for the big $$$$$.

Yes the buck kids out of % does are worthless for breeding stock. It's a different game for the %doe. Sire of excellance and Doe of excellance don't mean as much as ennoblement. Even so, there is no discount for a winning % doe.

Of course you throw out all the rules with the jackpot wether game. There are goat operations here that don't have single papered goat and make money hand over fist in the wether market.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow $10,000 for a goat just seems crazy to me lol I mean, I know I see them listed on line all the time and think WOW, but percentage does....again, wow.
She sure is gorgeous.

I'm used to the horse racing world, and those big pedigrees. I have so much to learn about the goat stuff, but I admit I haven't gotten too serious about it, the horses keep me busy enough especially during the sales when I have to figure out who will be the 'sale topper' and make sure I get pre-sale photos.
$100,000 for a yearling thoroughbred in the first week of the Sept sale that I go to is very common if not 'cheap.'

Just amazes me how much $$ goes into these animals. I'll admit, I am glad I am not into showing <just for the kids>, it's very obsessing isn't it? I worry about the critters we have in our care, I couldn't imagine how much anxiety I would experience if I had a $9,000 goat in my backyard lol 
My enjoyment though comes from reading everyone's posts here, seeing pics of your drool worthy goats and experiences


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## goatgirl132 (Oct 18, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> 2k to 10k is a pretty big price difference. I've never heard of boer kids selling for as much as 10k, but i'm not in the boer loop so maybe that's not unheard of? Why would someone pay that much though?


At a major show I went to my 1st year showing there was someone that payed 14000!!! For a wether and had a goat jocky. Missed sale by 1 place and got less than 200$ for that wether!!!

show goat/lamb equipment
www.Facebook.com/wickedshowchains


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## lazykranch (Dec 18, 2012)

Today @ True Colors Sale in PA highest selling buck was $14000. He was a spotted buck. There was some nice does there but you couldn't touch the nice stuff for under two grand.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Got to watch a production sale today. Yay!! I did notice the % does were going for quite abit more, but the % does were alot better made. The FB they sold were lacking in the hip area an seem to have steeper slopes also. I notice that they were thinner boned than the %. I hope to get to watch some more sales. For me they not only are fun to watch they are a learning experience. Plus gives me an excuse to stare at goats for a few hours.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

There is something to be said about hybrid vigor. 

The spotted buck for $14k was he really good? Or was he average and colored? That is another niche market, the colored animals, that are good animals, go for a lot. But, I have not seen any animals that were colored doing really good in the ring except for a few paints and solid reds.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

CGL's Stargate is the one that went for 14k. Here is his picture and their website. He is very nice for color in my opinion but I'm not sure, based on the few pictures I see of him, that I would have paid that much. I'm not into breeding for color either

http://cglfarms.com/bucks.html


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

14000 is a lot to pay for spots if he wasnt really something. It would be hard to pay that much for any goat, but if I was in the position to make my money back on him I would pick one up for that in a heartbeat. Maybe one day lol!!


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> CGL's Stargate is the one that went for 14k. Here is his picture and their website. He is very nice for color in my opinion but I'm not sure, based on the few pictures I see of him, that I would have paid that much. I'm not into breeding for color either


Well I wouldnt kick him outta bed for eatin oats!! Me paying 14 thousand for him to do it is another thing!!


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

GTAllen said:


> There is something to be said about hybrid vigor.
> 
> The spotted buck for $14k was he really good? Or was he average and colored? That is another niche market, the colored animals, that are good animals, go for a lot. But, I have not seen any animals that were colored doing really good in the ring except for a few paints and solid reds.


I think the color can confuse some judges. Not always the case but its pounded into them "quality over color" so I think there may be some second guessing occasionally. At the same time I have not seen a single color doe in my area that I would have. Quality color can be very, very hard to find. Quality traditionals arent always easy to find either but color is so much more difficult.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Oh no he's a pretty buck. No doubt about it! He's not what I would pick but still a nice color buck. CGL has some very nice spotted goats anyway... they have a couple does I would take in a heartbeat.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

I think its great that ppl are trying to breed the paints an dapples to have everything going for them plus adding those beautiful color patterns you can get on the color goats. I would love to add some dapples to my herd just because I like to look at them, but like you mentioned Dani its hard to find nice trad forget about finding nice well made color goats. Sometimes you get lucky cause I have a couple colored goats that are just as well put together at some of my trad.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Cape Girardeau, MO show 1 & 2 So Good was overall grand %. So I think since she has sold 2 weeks ago she has won overall grand % 3 or 4 times.


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## lazykranch (Dec 18, 2012)

GTAllen said:


> Cape Girardeau, MO show 1 & 2 So Good was overall grand %. So I think since she has sold 2 weeks ago she has won overall grand % 3 or 4 times.


For all the spotted bucks that are out there this boy is awesome up close. He looks good. He was in show clothes of course but he was put together like a true boer is supposed to look. I think if you like the spots but don't want to sacrifice the massive bulk here's you man.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

*10K wether*



GTAllen said:


> 2 wethers sold in Texas the other day for $10k.....................EACH!!!


I'm sorry but who in their right mind pays that for a wether?? They can't breed it so what is the purpose of that kind of price tag?:scratch:


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I'm sorry but who in their right mind pays that for a wether?? They can't breed it so what is the purpose of that kind of price tag?:scratch:


My thoughts too. I have my limits on wethers.... probably still much more than you and alot of others would pay since I show them but you have to reasonable when buying them.

Some people seem to think paying alot for a goat means it will win. No. There is more that goes into it. With the wether especially... if they aren't fed and worked right they won't do a thing.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I'm sorry but who in their right mind pays that for a wether?? They can't breed it so what is the purpose of that kind of price tag?:scratch:


I was shocked when I thought they were $10k for the pair. I just couldn't imagine when he said they were 10 each!! That's two people bidding that have more money then they know what to do with.

Watch a board bid sale for wethers sometime.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I do watch those online sales for wethers and wether maker breeding stock. My eye isn't good enough to see why a judge would be so in love with them. That's on me though. These goats are shaved too and that makes their appearance different right off the bat. I keep trying to learn though. As more and more people buy the "winning breeding" based on the reputation of the people selling the "winning breeding" the *name* will wear off and it is just the goat. Then what? There is no papers on them. Can Joe Shmoe me get 10K for a wether maker buck? Even if it's awesome and full of Kelly and 900 yada, yada, yada? The way I see it, the people that *were* breeding all the winners won't be winning quite as often in the future. They'll be getting beat by their own goats. Then what name and reputation do the people willing to pay the big money chase? You'd think the prices would come down some at that point, but I could be wrong about that. I see Nathan Ducan from Able Acres is getting into the whether game. 20kids confirmed this. Nathan has won with goats by "Full Proof" at ABGA shows. Will the wether makers and ABGA goats sort of merge to some degree in the future? I hope everybody stays honest...


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I think certain breeding stock lines make awesome wethers. I know fb ripper wethers that have won huge shows. But they don't look like traditional breeding stock lines either. They are very pretty, refined goats. 

I think a wether type depends on where your located, who the judges are and who your competition is. On our circuit big goats with nice leg size, big tops and huge frames win. So that is what I bought for circuit goats. A few of ours this year are Natural Disaster kids, which is a direct son Kelly's Curly and his dam was a Norman Cole doe. They all look so different! A couple I think are Texas Ink grand kids but I'm not 100% on that... see how much I pay attention to names.on wethers? 

It should be based on each goat as an individual when choosing wethers. Genetics are great and do help but feeding and working is where its at.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

It would be nice if the wether and ABGA show people would move to trying to produce more realistic animal that represents the ideal animal for the market. 

A 370lb buck with all the "cover" is not going to make it in the pasture trying to cover 20 does. He would die of heat stroke trying in the South since temperatures of often in the upper 80's, even in the fall. 

A doe that is 240lbs of fat is not any producers idea of breed stock to produce kids for market. Over conditioned does are trouble to get settled and often will have kidding troubles.

Packers want a kid 65lbs, that is close to the size the box is made to hold. The market doesn't want a show market wether. They are heavily penalized in price at the auction.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> I think certain breeding stock lines make awesome wethers. I know fb ripper wethers that have won huge shows. But they don't look like traditional breeding stock lines either. They are very pretty, refined goats.
> 
> I think a wether type depends on where your located, who the judges are and who your competition is. On our circuit big goats with nice leg size, big tops and huge frames win. So that is what I bought for circuit goats. A few of ours this year are Natural Disaster kids, which is a direct son Kelly's Curly and his dam was a Norman Cole doe. They all look so different! A couple I think are Texas Ink grand kids but I'm not 100% on that... see how much I pay attention to names.on wethers?
> 
> It should be based on each goat as an individual when choosing wethers. Genetics are great and do help but feeding and working is where its at.


Your last part says it all the best about show wethers. I hear it said that a wether is 10% genetics. The other 90% is feed and hard work.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm not taking anything away from breeders who strive to have those.genetics that are big boned, nicely structured and pack on muscle. But I've seen wethers from top notch breeders finish dead last in a class for lack of good nutrition and exercise. I buy my goats from a wether breeder and love his goats but it does take tons of work to have a winner


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

GTAllen said:


> It would be nice if the wether and ABGA show people would move to trying to produce more realistic animal that represents the ideal animal for the market.
> 
> A 370lb buck with all the "cover" is not going to make it in the pasture trying to cover 20 does. He would die of heat stroke trying in the South since temperatures of often in the upper 80's, even in the fall.
> 
> ...


Absolutely- you see the same thing w/ show steers and halter horses though too. Typically what wins in the confirmation ring doesn't have a prayer when it comes to performance or commercial scenarios.

I've never understood why the show world managed to get FAT so confused with muscle. The purpose of Boers was to produce a fast growing animal with an ideal carcass- and like you said above, I have yet to see a commercial buyer who wants an animal in show condition. It makes no sense from an economic or an animal health standpoint to show animals that are so grossly over conditioned (especially when you're paying 5 figures for them!).

It would also be nice if there was more of a concern on parasite resistance and overall hardiness in the ABGA world too. We've got several nice fullblood animals that I love, but I can guarantee they always run a higher fecal count and always need more babying than the swamp goats we paid $75 bucks for.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

SunnydaleBoers said:


> A that I love, but I can guarantee they always run a higher fecal count and always need more babying than the swamp goats we paid $75 bucks for.


Got any pictures of the swamp goats?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I agree on the fat/muscle thing Sunnydale.

GTAllen, I somewhat agree with the 90/10% thing but at the same time I don't want to take anything away from breeders. Our breeder works very hard to get awesome genetics that will helps us have better tops and such to.make it easier to raise a great wether. At the sametime, ALOT of people buy from him without the same winning results we have had.


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

Tenacross said:


> Got any pictures of the swamp goats?


Lol, I'll have to try to take some. I think they're a Kiko/Spanish/who-knows-what-cross. Back in the early days- before we knew much of anything and bought goats like most people eat chips- we bought them from a guy who pastured them in the Missouri equivalent of a swamp. They were skinny and WILD and full of lice and we did end up culling a few of them, but the ones we kept have turned out to be the best goats in the herd. I wish I would have bought the rest of the herd from the guy. They consistently throw triplets, they raise nice big kids without help from us, and they breed back fast. They're averaging 4 births per 24 months right now.

The only downside is that they are the most orneriest, full of attitude, just plain _evil_ goats in the herd and they definitely pass that trait on to their kids!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

SunnydaleBoers said:


> Lol, I'll have to try to take some. I think they're a Kiko/Spanish/who-knows-what-cross. Back in the early days- before we knew much of anything and bought goats like most people eat chips- we bought them from a guy who pastured them in the Missouri equivalent of a swamp. They were skinny and WILD and full of lice and we did end up culling a few of them, but the ones we kept have turned out to be the best goats in the herd. I wish I would have bought the rest of the herd from the guy. They consistently throw triplets, they raise nice big kids without help from us, and they breed back fast. They're averaging 4 births per 24 months right now.
> The only downside is that they are the most orneriest, full of attitude, just plain _evil_ goats in the herd and they definitely pass that trait on to their kids!


That's awesome. I want one. For awhile anyway.  It's probably hard to get a photo of them.


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