# help!



## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok so one of my bucks starting acting dumpy yesterday, so since I have know pneumonia is going around I gave him a shot of Nuflor, a shot of thiamine and a shot of vit B. Today he is a bit worse. Rumen is hard as a rock but has some movement to it, he is cold so I think it is about to shut down. He is in a pin by himself and he is eating that I see, dont know if he is drinking so I have been drenching him with warm water with redcell in it. My thermometer is broke so I dont know what his temp is but I know he is cold cause his mouth is cold. I have sub Q fluids should I start him on that? WHat should I do??


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

never ever :angry: treat a goat with meds.......... until you take there temp first........................ he may have a tummy ache or rumen problem and with his mouth cold doesn't sound good, doesn't sound like a fever..........you needed a temp before anything was done ,now if you take it it might be inaccurate , buy a thermometer.........that is a must...... :hair:

sorry if I am stern.............. but this is very important....


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

the reason I gave him a shot of nuflor was becuase I have lost 2 goats to pneuminia, I noticed they were feeling ok and within 24 hours they were dead, thats why I gave him the shot. His mouth was kinda cold yesterday, today it feels about the same. WHy does a rumen shut down? WHat causes that? And since it is not shut down yet, how to I keep it from shutting down? Yes I know I need an accurate thermometer, but last night that was not my top priority, my top priority was keeping him alive, and so far he is. please let me know if there is anything I can do, I am gonna start him on sub q fluid drip


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I would suggest some probiotis, or even steal the cud from another goat and put it into him.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I need some help! I have a doe that is 19 months old that is down. She would not eat all day, still won't eat nothing, (grain or hay) nor would she leave the barn at all. This is so unlike her. I haven't felt much rumen contractions so I gave her some probios & Nutri-Drench. Tonight she seems to be getting worse. Her body temp is low as her ears are very cold, the rest of the does ears are very warm to the touch as it is in the low 80's here tonight. She doesn't want to get up, but will if she has to but slowly and seems to have trouble doing so. I just gave her a Vit. B Complex injection and forced some water w/ baking soda down her. What else can I do for her now? If she is not better I will call the vet first thing in the morning if need be or if things get much worse. But till then is there anything I am missing. Anything I am not thinking of. (so far in the past 8 hours she has had Probios, Nutri Drench, Vit. B, Baking Soda)
> The only thing I can think that may be the cause is that she was recently wormed with Ivomec 1% given orally (5 days ago) due to lice. That didn't seem to work so she was dusted with Sevin Dust 5% yesterday. Do you think this was the cause or just to much at once for her? I don't know what else it could be as she is normally healthy, active, as is my whole herd, who rarely if ever are ill.
> By the way this is her first pregnancy and she is due in December. So I am really getting concerned here. Very concerned... Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> ...


Title of POST 
Sick pregnant doe...

check out this post ,,it has alot of info that might help with rumen problems


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have given meds without checking a temp -- toth boer that was out of line! 

Rachel my mind can't come up with anything else right now but if I do I will let you know.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yes, you can start him on sq fluids if you want. It wont hurt him any... well the needle will but you get my point lol. I would only give him a total of 500cc today if you think he is really dehydrated. Tent the skin and if it doesn't spring right back then he is dehydrated. 

You could give him some whiskey,karo or molasses, and coffee mixed together in equal parts. 3cc for an adult.. I am guessing he is. That should warm him up and perk him up a bit.

Is he chewing cud? I would give him some probios.. but if he isn't chewing cud then I would steal some cud from another goat and give it to him to help his tummy.

I always seem to loose my thermometer at the worst times so don't worry about it. :wink:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

what..........why.........staceyRoop........ it only gives you more accurate readings..........to know how to treat the problem correctly...VETS tell you that .............first thing.......
:shrug:


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

thank you so much susanne..............


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I dont think she was out of line, I understand your point about the thermometer, but I had necropsies done on the 2 that died and it was pneumonia, thats why I panicked and gave a shot of nuflor. SO dont worry about it!  Now, he is chewing his cud, he is eating, he is peeing, and pooping normal. I have not seen him drink water so I put a bucket with warm warm water and he drank a couple gulps. That post you told me about, "sick doe" sounds alot like him, kinda weak on his legs, stands hunched up. He was not wormed or anything, I hadent done a thing to this boy. The temp dropped quick in the last couple of days, it has gone from 90's to the 70's in like 2 days. thats another reason I thought it was a lung issue. I will try to find my other thermometer, but I know he is cold so I moved him into my garage in a large kennel and turned my dryer on. I will probably throw a sweat shirt on him too lol. I will give him some baking soda and try that whiskey coffee and mollassses. I think I am out of whiskey tho, will anything else work, like rum?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yes rum should work. 

I have used the mixture many times and it always warms them up.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm wow the sick doe post, does sound like your buck.......did you get to read the whole thing?.......so glad he is doing better already....................... :leap: :leap: :leap: 




thank you everyone for supporting me and my big mouth................. :hug: :grouphug:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well mine isent doing better, he is just the same, eating and everything. I am gonna go get a NEW THERMOMETER!!! lol sorry couldent resist. I do have a thermometer, but when I used it last night it said his temp was 80....if his temp was 80 he would have been dead, used it on a healthy goat, and it sid 81.... so it was broke last night lol, but I did have one on hand, and I just figured out it was broke lol. he is just hanging out, not too sure whats gonna happen. anyideas?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I am gonna go get a NEW THERMOMETER!!! lol sorry couldent resist.


 :thumbup:

Did you get to read the whole post on Sick pregnant doe..maybe there is more help there..........

probiotic and backing soda is good to use..................for gut problems............good luck and I will pray for him.. ray:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh just remember to keep him warm....................and keep the liquids coming...... :thumb: 



you are right ................if he and another goat were 80' and 81'....your thermometer is also under the weather.............LOL


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

ok, got his temp.......95.5 I am now very worried. I just drenched him with baking soda and warm water, and the mollasses STRONG coffee and tequila since i dident have whiskey or rum, and I know tequilla makes me warm so I figured it would make him warm lol. is there anything else I can do..... gosh I am afraid I have lost him! he is standing and he is eating when I put oat hay in front of him, but he has been eating all night long so he is probably full. I dont know, is there anything else I can do? oh I will just die if I lost him. please help


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Blankets or old sweatshirt cut so he can still pee without wetting it. 

I had a buck with a temp of 97.5 and he pulled through fine. You can get him through this. Give him some time to warm up. He is still standing and eating so that is a good sign. :hug:

Oh and you can give that mixture every half hour till his temp goes up.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I think you have done well by getting the things into him that will help him, let them do their job, it's not going to hurt I think to put a sweatshirt on him, it will at least help warm him up. Still get some probiotics into him, he is eating and thats a very good sign, the antibiotic will interfere with the rumen also even though he has just had one dose. You may try some warm oatmeal with molasses to warm him on the inside :greengrin: 
Hope he improves for you, and since you started the antibiotic you should continue with it.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well he is just sitting there. I dont know if he has gone downhill or just is full. he is standing there head hanging. I dont know if he is going to make it through this. I do NOT see any rumen movement now so I dont know, I have given him, yougurt, baking soda, tequilla coffee and mollasses vit B thiamine......oh gosh how do I get his rumen started again???


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

liz is totally right........................ :thumbup:

probiotic will


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

go get probiotic paste it will get the gut going...........


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Put your ear against his left side, where his rumen is. Do you hear any sounds?

Like I said before, you can steal cud from another goat and give that to him. Even though it is really smelly, lol.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

If you can get a dark colored sweater on him and if the sun is shining, get him into the sun. The dark color will absorb the suns heat the walk may do him good too.

Watch your fingers while stealing that cud....those molars are sharp!

As RunAround said, put your ear to his left side....you should here his belly "growling" back at you, you don't need to see the contractions of the rumen for it to be working...as long as you can hear it.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:coffee2:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> cud transplant is the only way to get rumen bacteria back if it is off!!!/b]. no probiotics, yogurt or kerfir can do this.


susanne were did you hear that?


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Oh, gosh I hope he gets better! I can't really offer any advice - just good wishes that he gets better. :hug:


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:coffee2:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well after hangin out in the sun for a while his temp is up to 103.8.....lol he is eating great and even tryin to fight me a bit! my question is if this is a stomach problem I was told to give them tetnus antitoxin...is that right? I got a single shot of it, some cd&T some vit B complex and probios. I cannot remember what it is called but but you are supposed to give a short acting cdt or something like that..... help! I dont remeber lol


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

that would be the C&D antitoxin 

glad to see his temp is up and he is fighting you :thumb:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

:leap: thats great Rachael!!! Hope he continues to improve :hug:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

so its not tetnus antitoxin? thats what i got lol


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

he doesnt have tetanous -- so he doesnt need that


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

If I recall correctly, there is a tetanus antitoxin as well as one for CD&T - this is going back quite a while ago though. I think that's correct though. 

I'm so glad to hear he is doing better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :wahoo: :stars: :leap: 

So, what do u think did the trick?? Did you do the cud transplant??


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm glad he is doing better and his temp is up!


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

well isent cdt for tetnus?? I dont know im confused, plain and simple. do I give him the tetnus antitoxin or not? You know I am not sure what worked, I gave him yogurt, vit B, baking soda, coffee tequilla and mollasses, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I dont remeber. I did not do the cud transplant, I was too busy running around lol.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

It's for tetanus and CD. I don't think he needs it.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

rachael is this the buck that you got from me?? cause he had his tetanus booster in february


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

yes it is soldier, you know how I was asking you yesterday that he was acting dumpy yesterday, well he went downhill today!! But he is sooooooooo much better!! his ears are even nice and warm! I am so happy, but I dont want to hold my breath too long cause he could go right back downhill again. But he is gettin fighsty with me again so I think he is feeling better. :clap: :leap:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

yea that's weird but he had tetanus in february and his b12 in may so i guess you nipped it in the bud


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

CD/T is a TOXOID, CD *ANTI-TOXIN *is what you need for tummy infections.
crocee


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

CD/T is a toxoid as mentioned.

The C&D part is for enterotoxemia (overeating disease --- bad bacteria) and the T part is for tetanous.

When dealing with a rumen issue you want the Antoxin of the C&D part. 

I hope that is more clear.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I dont know why I dont get it but I just dont get it lol, I will do some more reading about it. But I wanted to let you all know that soldier joined the herd today, he was back to normal doing great, even causing a ruccus when I was trying to take his temp! I am so excited, I am still keepin an eye on him but I think he is ok, he has been outside pigging out on grass hay and runs from me. Thank you everyone for helping me out with this boy, I would of died if he died!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

haha so would I!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats great news! 

THere are two types of vaccines. One is the toxoid (long lasting) and the other is the antitoxin (fast acting but shot term protection).

The C&D toxoid is combined with the Tetanous Toxoid to create the vaccine that is for both = CD/T toxoid

So when you want to treat either disease fast you need the separate antixoin of that vaccine. For tetanous you want the straight tetanous antixoin. But for enterotoxemia you want the C&D antitoxin (without the tetanous).


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

rachael i know this would be a hell of a drive for you but. in bakersfield there is a store called walco and they have EVERY vaccine you could think of. i bought the C/D and toxin vaccine for 6 bucks and a box of antitoxin vaccine( 10 seperate little vials for ) 18 bucks. i think tht they may ship too so if your interested email or text me and i'll get you the info on it


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm that is terrific news...back to the road of recovery~! :stars: 

I just wanted to apologize when I first responded to your post,those darn little face thing.... a....... ma........ gigs are a little dangerous at times and it did .....make it sound mean.....I didn't mean it to be mean........ at all.....I just wanted to make sure you knew the importance of the thermometer............ I was scolded by the boss of the site to watch how I use the faces and brought it to my attention that with the way I put the face things made it sound real mean..........I read it with the faces and without and found it is more calm without the face things........you are a sweet person and I am sorry if it bothered you in any way...............Just had to get it off my chest.........."Warning"......beware...... of ..........the ...............faces....they can attack. :tears:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Toth it is ok, I wasent bothered by it! I hope you dident get scoleded too bad lol. I am sorry! I know the importance of a thermometer, I ALWAYS have one and ALWAYS yell at someone when they dont have one or dont take temps. I HAVE a thermometer, but when I took his temp I discovered it was broke lol, but i did have one lol. Oh well it happens. Well update on soldier today, he is still going, eating pooping peeing and drinking, but he is real dehydrated, his eyes are even sunk in to his head. I think it was he was tired from this whole ordeal and he dident want to get up and walk to the water, so I put a bucket of water in front of him and he drank half a bucket :shocked: so I hooked him up once again to the sub Q fluids gave him vit b and a little thiamine, also gave him a little selenium. you can already see his energy bounce up a little bit. he is eating great and peeing and pooping. should I give him any kind of supplements? or change his food, he is getting fresh oat hay all he wants. should I go get some alfalfa or some grain?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I would go ahead and give im his normal amount of hay....maybe a handful of grain....and keep up with the B vitamins...it will help with his appetite.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

thank you sixshooterfarm, that makes me feel better ..............................

No I wasn't scolded real real bad, it just made me think about it more and made me feel bad,,, I did not want hurt your feelings...................But I did scold myself so I guess I got a double dose of it, LOL :wink: 

as for you goat.....right now I wouldn't change his diet much......... if at all, but it might not hurt...................... if you do want to add alfalfa ,but do it a little at a time, .........we do not want him scouring at this stage................ :thumbup:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok his temp this morning was 97 and then just hanging out it is back up to 101.7 he is still kinda dumpy, and his color was good but now his eyelids are white, barley pink. I have been giving him iron injections for 3 days now and his color is staying the same. He was wormed with ivermectin horse wormer. Should I give him a dose of valbazen? I dont know why his color would go from nice and pink to white is 3 days even with iron injections, he was getting like 3ccs a day, should I up it?


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

red cell maybe :shrug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

It could be a circulation issue. If you press on his gums does the color(or what color he has) come back right away, or does it take a while?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

white gums isnt always an indication of iron deficency though it is the usual cause.

can you get the vet out to check on him? He might have an infection somewhere causing him to no be able to regulate his temp


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:coffee2:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

He is current on his vaccinations, I just wormed him with Ivermectin for horses. I have valbazen and will give him a dose of that. Why would they just be going after him if it is worms? Everyone else is fat dumb and happy? I am gonna give him some herbal stuff I have that will be good for him #1 and will expel worms in an easy way. Also I was doing some reading, and it sounds also like he has a copper deficency. EVerything I read is like text book of it, and yes I understand it would have to be a severe case of copper def. but I copper boluse every one and he hasent had one cause he is a new goat. Ok so I will worm him, copper boluse him and what else?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like you are doing everything you can for him. Copper deficency is a possibility, I hope it is something you can figure out quickly here


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

He is doing great right now, eating a whole bunch and even blubberin at some girls, so maybe it is just taking a cou :wave: le of days to build back up. I am gonna watch his color, how long do you think it will take for the copper boluse to take affect?


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:coffee2:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Susane, I am already working on that but the only vet I know of that will do it that I trust takes many days to finish it, and I am trying to keep him alive so I know what to treat him for. I have not given him any more wormer, I was goona wait till after the fecal. But good news is that his color is getting better and he is more active. It is probably about 70 right now and his temp is 102.5 yay!! :leap: :leap: :leap: ray: ray: I am so excited, you can see the pink coming back in his eyelids compared to the white/yellow he had earlier. Oh i am crossing my fingers!!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

you have any powerpunch?? that will keep him fairly boosted


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

lol, what is powerpunch? I never heard of it


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i got it through... jeffers.. its pretty much generic nutri drench.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:coffee2:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

all the animal vets around here have to send it out --- why I dont know


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

delete


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

My vet doesn't send it out, but it still costs about $50. They also do their one blood work so I can get blood tests done in about 30 mins.. but that costs a mint to.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I is like 21.00 per fecal. I can do my own yes, but I dont trust myself fully.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well we are making more and more progress everyday. His color gets better everyday too. Today he was feeling really good as he escaped from the chain link dog kennel to hang out with the girls :roll: lol. I mean he still is a little weak, like he can get knocked over easily, I mean I know at least a week after I have been down bad from the flu I know I can get knocked over easily lol. I am prayin and crossing my fingers everyday that he continues to be better. His temp seems to be stable too. Usually by the morning he is a tad on the colder side, but then again all the goats are, I know thats the normal thing, I actually went out and forgot to put him in the kennel and put his heat lamp on and his temp was 100.7, I was suprised it was that high, I thought for sure it was gonna be 90 something. So I am thinking that we are on the road to recovery!! yay!! I will still give you guys daily updates to let you all know! thank you, I love you all!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Great news! Glad he's better!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sounds alot better..................sixshooterfarm..........great news to hear :leap:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

and then right back downhill he goes..... I got up this morning and his temp was 97.6 I had to stand him up as he wouldent or should I say couldent on his own. He is peeing out the vit B so I am going to stop that for a while since obviously his body dont need it. Is there anything else you guys can think of? I dont know why he is doing good one second and is down the next? Irritating me!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm ....call your vet as soon as possible ..tell him what is happening with him........he doesn't sound good,, if he cannot get up..and sub temp again..... :worried: 

maybe even have a different vet look at him....he sounds bad..........sixshooter ......I am stumped here and you have done everything right..........


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

im really starting to worry. even though i wormed and everything before he left, i think he may have serious worms.i think its like a super worm


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

SDK ..............I am worried to................ ... I really wish the stool sample results would hurry up.......................he has no more time to waste..........


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm ......... how much wormer in cc's did you use and what kind?

SDK can I ask you the same question?


It is better to over dose wormers then under dose....................just curious?


thanks


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well I gave him a dose of ivermectin for a 250 lb horse. Then today I gave him Valbazen, the vet told me hook worms, so valbazen should cover it. He isent doin so great today, his heat beat is at 48 bpm and his resperation is short and shallow... I am thinking things are shutting down. I just dont understand why the worms are attackin him and not the rest of my goats?? I dont know if he has a compramised immune system from a previous sickness... Not you SDK but could have well been before you, like an illness when he was growing up or something. I dont know, I have no freakin clue but I am mad, very very mad. I am gonna be sooooo heart broken. the vet said I have done everything right, he is gonna snap out of it or he is not. I cant loose him you guys!! I dont know what to do. The vet is being worthless..


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

toth - i use three kinds of wormers. i use quest horse dewormer at double does

ivermectin injectable at whatever it says for doseing

and safeguard at 3 cc per 45 lbs

i did have a kid die fro bottlejaw and i'm afraid that soldier might have gotten it, and that the stress of the move has given the worms the opening to seize control.. its so weird, he was never sick down here not even a cold

poor soldier!! i owned him since he was 8 months, then i traded with six shooter, other than that the only person who owned him was susan greenberg, his breeder


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I feel horrible Sarah, I dident mean for him to get sick, you know that, all the rest of my goats are perfectly fine!! He was hungry, wanted fresh hay so I threw some oat hay in there and he went to town eating. One thing I noticed tho..... He was rubbing his tongue around his mouth like there was something in there, so I opened his mouth and he has a huge sore on the roof of his mouth!! I know he is eating and drinking, but I wonder if the neighbor kids who like to throw different plants and stuff over my fence, threw something that gave him sores in his mouth? Or it was something poisonous that is causing this or he had a reaction to something..... I dont know but it is an idea


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i know you didn't mean too. but stuff happens to all of us. like when moons kid died down here. it was horrible and i was so sad, she was so sweet and never showed a sign of being sick then one day she was dead.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Have you had the vet out? or jsut talked on teh phone? Do you have another vet you can call? I would be interested in what is causing the sores. An allergic reaction seems unlikely


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm I will pray for your goat,,I pray that he pulls through , ray: ,keep in touch,,, :worried: ray: ray: ray: ray: ray: ray: 

I am so sad you have to go through that....................the both of you...........sixshooterfarm and SDK ............ :tears:

I have no idea on the sore in the mouth............. hmmmmmmmmm, unless it's from the worm load ?


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well things arent looking too good tonight. His temp is about 99.5 and he is weak. Weird part is he is chewing his cud like a champ, burping peeing pooping, just weak, cant stand up on his own and just falls if he gets pushed too hard. He drank warm water and loves his alfalfa. Could he just be weak from trying to get over this, I mean since he is chewin his cud and everything? Or is it the end of the road for him? :tears: Oh gosh I am just crying up a storm with this boy! I just cant loose him!! Stacey, the vets out here are worthless, they are either rediculously expensive, like one vet is $500 just for your animal to get looked at..... and the other one who is also worthless, I probably know more than he does. Usually when I see a goat is dying I hear no stomach sound they are freezing cold to the touch and wont eat pee or poop. He is eating great, I was even sitting out there picking all the leaves out of the alfalfa and he would happily eat it right out of my hand. He is pooping and peein and chewing cud and burping, so if his rumen is working to the point of burping up cud, dosent that mean that it isent shutting down just yet? Could he just be really wore out and tired?? please tell me there is hope, his color looks ok, not the best but it is stayin somewhat pink, better then white! please tell me there might be hope, I just hope that I dont give you guys bad news in the morning.


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## greatcashmeres (Jul 13, 2008)

Thinking of you both and prayers sent for his recovery. ray:


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:angry:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> i hope his suffering is ending soon.
> and for you, the only advice i can give, learn to do fecal check.


susanne .If you would of read the whole post you would of seen that sixshooterfarm did have a poo sample done it took forever and ever to get the results ...............results just came in yesterday,,,"hook worms" sixshooter did everything on this earth to help her precious goat ....she did worm him, but with the results found ...........she used the wrong type of wormer for hooks,,,he has been treated with valbezen but the long wait for stool results drug him down further and further,now only time will tell. You should not of been so mean to sixshooter............ :tears:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

dear...............sixshooterfarm.....I hope you boy is OK this morning......................

there is always hope................. ray: ray: ray: ray:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

susanne that was out of line! 

Doing your own fecals isnt always reliable as learning how to do them can take time --- I know! 

Sending out fecals is so common place now that getting results fast is nearly impossible.

Rachel how is he?


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Like I said in my previous post I would fear I would have to give you bad news this morning. He past away very peacefully in the middle of the night last night. I knew he was going and I sat with him a bit and fed him his alfalfa leaves, which he happily ate. He just fell asleep, not a peep out of him. Thank god he went peacefully and I am glad his suffering is over. I am so heartbroken. thank you all for all your help!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Rachel ........I am so , so sorry ,we hoped for the best... he was sure a fighter,he tried so hard and so did you..............................You did everything in your power to help him,,so do not blame yourself for it........... again..........I am so sorry. :tears: :hug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I am sorry for your loss. :hug:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok all, so since I obviously have been using a wormer that dosent cover hook worms, I think I need to worm all my bucks and all my does. I will use valbazen on my bucks, but all my does are bred for spring kiddings, so what can I use on bred does that will cover hook worms?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do think that is very wise to deworm all your goats because of hook worms,,like you said the bucks you can use valbezen, but for the does I really do not know? hopefully someone else will,,,but if you cannot get an answer to that ....................I would worm your does with valbezen soon after kidding..........


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok so I got a little over rambunctious lol. I am gonna worm the goats that I think need worming, skinney, dull coats. I mean I dont have any one horrible and I have wormed the ones that I think need to be wormed....but with ivermectin.... so if they have a hook worm problem like my poor soldier then they arent getting wormed. Vet said to worm EVERYONE on the property but I am not gonna do that I think it will cause more of a problem. I am gonna put wormey goats in a pen together, worm everyone in that pen and watch them like a hawk.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

good for you ........Rachel ........to bad your does are pregnant at this time..............but you can only do ..............what you can do for now............good luck............


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)




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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Can anyone every really do EVERYTHING. I wormed him with what I have used before with success cause I was told by my vet to worm till fecals were done, so I used horse ivermectin, then we realized it was hookworms and we wormed accordingly, but he was too far gone. I too hate when my animals suffer, I dont like it but it is the fact of life. I dont have the equipment to do my own fecal but I plan on learning and doing it, but that will take time. I am not stupid, and it wasent human stupidity, it was worthless vets and I couldent just pull a microscope out of my closet and do a fecal on my own, I dont own a microscope. I think you are being harsh and I know you have lost animals and you dident do everything you could.... you try the best you humanly posibly can and not having a vet helping you out dosent help matters. I understand your point, and I plan on doing my own fecals, but loosing my goat already hurts, having someone come along and slap you in the face calling you an idiot dosent help. I feel bad enough already and feel defiently like MORE could have been done but was out of my powers, I could only get a fecal done so fast at the vet.


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

:roll:


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I just want to say "sorry" that you lost a little goatie - I know how it feels to loose one and it hurts.

** This really is not the time nor the place to be argueing over the "what ifs". The little one is gone, it is a lesson learned, and that is all that we can do is learn from it.

There have been times when my posts have come across "mean" when they did not mean to be - however, there is a time and a place.

Susanne - maybe you can post something in regards to HOW to do a fecal, things that you will need to do the fecal, and where you can get the supplies. That would be great for everyone! :wink:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree....we only CAN do what is financially as well as physically possible for our goats....not everyone practices the same herd management and not everyone has the same resources......that's why the majority of us are here, we love our goats regardless of wether or not they are pets or producers.

We are also her to give support when one of our goaties die, it is not "whining" about a loss, it is called "grieving" and looking for support`.

I agree with Allison wholeheartedly....SUSANNE....Instead of chastising a grieving kid over the loss of her goat, PLEASE post a subject on doing fecals at home...step by step with where to get the equipment as well as prices and what we are looking for.


Rachael, I am so sorry you lost Soldier, you did what you could with what you had available, maybe it was just his time to go and there was an underlying issue that no one could have seen. :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

susanne.. I do not understand why you are hitting her so hard on this,we "ALL" went through TRIAL AND ERROR" we all are not PERFECT either,,like Rachel said ,when you have 2 vets in your area that do not know to much about goats, and take there sweet bottom time getting results back..........is pretty hard............In the past ,,,,,, not many vets...... if any at all .....knew nothing about goats........... and now...... are "just" learning more about them...and at the same time learning from....believe it or not.......... us...................but not all vets know.............alot about goats.............. still to this day.........................so we as breeders like I said before it's............... trial and error..........they are just now starting vaccines ect labeled for goats............................... it is unfair for you to be that harse ..please be kind...........rewind.... :tears:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I have been watching this thread faithfully for news on Soldier. . . . I didn't have any advice to offer but I do want to offer my sympathies. I believe you did do everything you could to save him. Sending big :hug: :hug: (s) your way. So sorry. 

I would love to learn how to do fecal checks. . . . nice suggestion, Allison.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Thank you all for your support, I was not whining, I am greiving over him because I love each and every animal that I own, and I too dont want to see animals suffering. Soldier did not die for no reason, I have gone on ebay and bought myself a nice microscope and plan on trying to do my own fecals. I did do everything in my power, and what I knew. I plan on changing some things. Susanne, I am not too sure why you chose to pounce on me, I DO understand your point tho, I too would get mad at a person if they were just sitting there watching their goat die and not doing a thing about it, BUT I was not just sitting there, I have had very little sleep in the last 10 or so days wether it be up with soldier or many hours of reserch on the computer, I was not whining and complaining, I was trying to find the cause. Constructive critisim is one thing but pouncing is not so nice. I am very interested in learning how to do my own fecals and since you do them I would love to pick your brain on how to do it, if you can offer any help. SO everyone, leave susanne alone, I understand live and learn. It is no fun for anyone for an animal to die especially one that dident deserve it. thank you all!!! :grouphug: :grouphug:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Rachel, I'm glad you are going forth with doing your own fecals...especially since it takes so long for your vet to get results. I'm lucky enough to have a vet that knows goats and the best thing too is that she has sheep and goats of her own, and I don't have to wait for results...but I do think it would be a good thing to have a topic started on how to do them for those who would like to learn. You have a big heart AND an open mind, typing "words" is so different than talking as there is no "feeling" in words and maybe some things were taken differently than they were meant to be, but I know how much you love your goats and I know you did all could, as I said, maybe there was something that was an underlying issue in your boy that nothing could have helped him, your others are healthy and happy so I am relieved that this wasn't an "epidemic" Big :hug: to you.....Soldier was a very lucky boy to have you as a "goat momma" :hug:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

:tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears: 



im so sad..


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## susanne (Nov 13, 2007)

not worth it


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