# Drinking Raw Milk



## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I have been doing a LOT of reading on both sides of the raw milk debate. One side practically has you signing your death certificate if you go anywhere near raw milk and the other side has you leaping over buildings in a single bound with the health benefits of drinking such a superfood.

I have concluded both sides are full of it . . . Typically I have found that any extreme is wrong in most cases and I think these 2 extremes follow suit.

On health risks the main things I have seen red flagged are TB and Buccilosis (sp?). TB is very rare anymore especially in goats, but it continues to be a risk because people fear it spreading from the deer populations. Buccilosis seems to be more of a imported problem from Central and South America, but is not completely unheard of in the USA. However it doesn't seem to be a huge problem. Both of these can be EASILY tested for.

The bigger issues with drinking raw milk seems to be from E coli and Salmanila poisoning which can have HUGE heath risks. However, from what I am understanding these are both outside contaminates that are from fecal matter gettng into the milk from the animal or handler, and can be prevented by being sanitary and careful in handeling the milk, sanitizing everything, and keeping the animals clean, and the milking area clean. These risks are less common, but not impossible, in goats vrs cows because of the obvious differences in feces. (cows splatter, goats don't) Also, getting your milk very cold very FAST is key in keeping these contaminates from growing in volumn. 

So it seems to me there are no real issues to drinking raw milk if your animal has been tested free of the deseases, and you emplor sanitary practices. Being really sanitary can be hard though, and if at all lazy about it you can risk your health in a major way.

On the other side, I really don't believe that raw milk does everything for you that the raw milk enthusiats claim. I mean GOOD GREIF, if it did we would never eat/drink anything else! 

As far as good bacteria, there is good and bad in everything. I think it is really important to realize though that if you are sanitary then there should be very little bacteria at all, good or bad. Milk coming out of the mammery glands is sterile, and bacteria, whether good or bad is an outside contaminate. 

I do believe that digestion is easier in raw milk, taste is better, and it can be beneifical to health as long as precautions are taken.

I also DON'T believe pasturized milk is of the devil . . . but don't find it necessary, or desireable. I'd rather know I have a healthy animal and practice sanitary habits then pastuerize my milk. 

So, I think I have landed on the raw side of the debate, but I will not swallow everything some would like to claim. 

I found the history VERY interesting about TB and Bucc origionating in the bigger cities. Some of the practices of handling milk were WRETCHED! Like putting your feet in the warm bucket of milk to keep them warm on a cold day . . . I mean SERIOUSLY! No wonder they had to invent the pastuerizer!


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## Rev144 (Jan 22, 2011)

Ever wonder what the world did before the early 1900's when no one pasteurized milk?


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I can't really say WHO we should believe because that is a personal choice. I sure don't believe raw milk will kill you and I don't see anything wrong with pasteurized milk either. 

What I can say is I milked our goats and drank raw milk for the 1st time last year. I milked outside in an open air gazebo. Nothing too fancy. Washed my hands, wiped udders, used sterilized glass containers and chilled milk right after milking. No one here got sick from it.

The #1 reason I raise goats and drink their milk is because I can't stand the way masses of animals are raised for use as human food. I'm not against using or eating animals as long as they are well cared for. Mentally and Physically.
I like that my chickens free range and live happy little chicken lives digging in dirt, chancing bugs and just being chickens. I like seeing my goats forage on several open acres of land. They run, they jump, they play. My animals don't live in tiny pens with hardly enough room to turn around. The may be here for the sole purpose of making food but they still live happy, healthy, active lives.

We started out pasteurizing our milk but it was time consuming. We had our goats health tested for the most common diseases and plan to do it annually. Why not drink it raw? It tastes better (in my opinion) and it's simpler. 

Also, people can get just as sick if they don't care for their foods properly. Stick a dirty hand in milk... it's gonna grow bacteria. Leave milk out in the heat it is going to go bad. I don't care if its pasteurized or raw. 

:chin: We probably pick up more bacteria from the "5 second rule" when we eat a donut or price of candy that drops on the floor then we do from properly collected raw milk. :laugh: 

Just my opinion


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Very good post, Devin. 

The raw vs. pasteurized debate is such a huge one, also one I don't get into often. It honestly doesn't matter to me if you choose to drink milk or not, if you drink it raw or pasteurized, homogenized or non-homogenized - whatever, it's your choice. 

While the benefits of raw milk are many, I agree that they are sometimes overstated. 

What does bother me is the misinformation that is constantly thrown about by the anti-raw-because-it-will-kill-you! crowd. It would be nice if they would do some research before drinking the kool-aid. Where has all the common sense gone? All I ask from anyone, before coming to an opinion on any matter, is to do some thinking for yourself on the issue. :laugh:

So kudos for researching and a balanced, well-written explanation of your findings and opinion!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I always have to chuckle over these debates. Quite honestly....we drink the raw milk. And...if the goat steps in the milk, I strain the dirt out of it and, yep, we still drink it. Seriously....we do. We eat raw egs in ice cream and egg nog. What I can't believe is how much money people will spend for raw milk and free run chicken eggs! HOLY SMOKES! I know people that drive 4 hours and pay $10 a gallon for raw cow's milk! they pay $5 a dozen for the eggs!! People are nuts.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I am careful with the milk but I'm not anal about it. My family and I all drink it raw, have never gotten sick either. I just see no reason to kill everything in the milk when to me its not necessary. When you pasteurize anything from apple juice to milk it changes both the flavor and kills all the good bacteria in there. Sure there is a risk that there could be bad bacteria in there but if you are also taking in allot of good it can help kill the bad. It is also absolutely true that practices in pasteurized milking farms that they are not as clean. I worked in one and I know how things work. Their excuse is because its pasteurized it doesn't matter if the milk is all that clean. Seeing how things are done form also being in the inside of commercial hog farms as well I just don't like all this mass production. Things are dirtier, animals are not given the individual care they need and so many other things. I just wish everyone would go back to small farming.


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## Randi (Apr 22, 2011)

We drink raw milk :clap: We just like it.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Cleanliness is key to reducing contaminants in anything we eat...My milking supplies are clean and I milk with clean udders/bellies and hands, my milkstand is in my kidding area and thats where it needs to stay...I have no room for a fancy sterile milking parlor or even a separate goat free area for it so no, my stand is not a sterile area. I know for a fact that my mom didn't pasteurize the goats milk my sister and I were raised on and I'm still here a good many years later. I've used the milk from my own does the last 10 years without pasteurizing and I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

xymenah said:


> ...I just wish everyone would go back to small farming.


x 2

I suppose I should add that we drink raw milk & love it.


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

About a week ago when my doe stepped in the milk, I strained it, cooled it, took a long drink and then bagged it with the word SOAP on the bag.... It's kind of a "mom thing" I guess... "it wont hurt me, but I wont want my kids to drink it"... How dumb is that?? Anyway, I didn't get sick.. Yaaa!


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## Itchysmom (Apr 3, 2010)

I milk out in the open in their pen. My stand is made out of wood..it's old. I take precautions and get the milk chilled as soon as possible. We drink and cook with it, neighbor trades me eggs for it...no one has gotten sick.

There have been a few times where my doe will poop while I am milking. I see it coming, remove the bucket til she is done, sweep off the pellets, then go back to milking.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Itchysmom said:


> I milk out in the open in their pen. My stand is made out of wood..it's old. I take precautions and get the milk chilled as soon as possible. We drink and cook with it, neighbor trades me eggs for it...no one has gotten sick.
> 
> There have been a few times where my doe will poop while I am milking. I see it coming, remove the bucket til she is done, sweep off the pellets, then go back to milking.


Binkey has gotten into the habit of doing that EVERY morning! Drives me nuts because she's never pooped while on the stand! And my stand's wood also.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Love this thread. The more we educate the better. :applaud: 
There are too many great things to quote and comment on them all. But all those reasons are why we started drinking raw milk. And I did pay $12 for a HALF-gallon of raw cows milk before we got our goats. And there is only one store anywhere near me that carries it.
I am in the camp that feels that cooking a wonderful, natural food litterally to death (ie pasturizing) is a bad thing. I have noticed many changes in my overall health since the switch. My daughter and I have both lost our exema. My grandchildren are thriving on it. I no longer have acid indigestion at night.



.:Linz:. said:


> What does bother me is the misinformation that is constantly thrown about by the anti-raw-because-it-will-kill-you! crowd. It would be nice if they would do some research before drinking the kool-aid. Where has all the common sense gone? All I ask from anyone, before coming to an opinion on any matter, is to do some thinking for yourself on the issue.


Amen to that!

We did have an experience that scared the bejezzes out of me.
We were selling milk to a woman who wanted it for some sick goat kids she had. Her daughter got salmonella and they took her to the doctor. (They raise gaming fowl.)
The doctor asked if she had been around anything raw like eggs or milk. When she told him they were bottle feeding baby goats he stated, categorically, "That is it!!!" No tests, no nothing, just a blanket statement. It is that kind of ignorance being bandied about that causes unfounded fears. :veryangry: 
I mean, honestly, if it came from our milk we would be sick. I was just as careful with that milk as with what we drink.
Still, I lived in fear for quite some time that the CDC was gonna show up at my door.
Militant raw milk drinker here.


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## hipeatall (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh my goodness! It really does sound like alot of money... that is until you add up the all of the costs of actually keeping and caring for the animals yourself. I would save ALOT of money if I just paid $5.00 for a dozen free range eggs and $10 a gallon for milk! Don't tell my hubby this! 



kccjer said:


> I always have to chuckle over these debates. Quite honestly....we drink the raw milk. And...if the goat steps in the milk, I strain the dirt out of it and, yep, we still drink it. Seriously....we do. We eat raw egs in ice cream and egg nog. What I can't believe is how much money people will spend for raw milk and free run chicken eggs! HOLY SMOKES! I know people that drive 4 hours and pay $10 a gallon for raw cow's milk! they pay $5 a dozen for the eggs!! People are nuts.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

We got our free range chickens for bug control, and they just happen to throw in some free range eggs in the process lol! I feel like the chickens actually do pay for themselves in bug control, eggs and meat. If we had to spray for bugs chemically (Something I refuse to do) then we would pay a lot more than just the cost of the chicken keeping. We also don't feed ours a ton of corn in the buggy months, we go through most of our feed through the winter when they are in the coop more.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

I had never drunk goatsmilk raw or pasturized until the other day.
I went out to look at an alpine doe and I was feeling terribly queasy the whole two hour drive out and back. Even had to stop three times.
But the guy I'm buying this doe from was raised on goatsmilk. He's a cop and a no-nonsense kind of guy He told me that a cup of raw goatsmilk would settle my stomach better than anything else. I was ready to try anything because I had vomited a whole bottle of Pepto Bismal on the way there (I have to take painkillers because of a bad leg).
I got home and poured myself a glass of raw goatsmilk. Sure enough within fifteen minutes I was right as rain, I was even able to eat a small dinner afterwards.
I'm a very skeptical person, but for me the proof is in the pudding!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

WOW! I am am so glad it worked for you!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

So am I Devin . And believe me, with as hard on my stomach these pills I have to take are, I intend to keep some fresh goatsmilk on hand all the time.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Zarafia said:


> Sure enough within fifteen minutes I was right as rain


YUP!!!!!


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

Just out of curiousity, what are some of the other benefits of raw goatsmilk?
There's a lady here on CL who advertises it for $10/gallon and she says she sells all she doesn't use herself.


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## seren (Jan 28, 2012)

I was nervous to drink the milk my does are producing raw so I haven't been doing any milking since they still have their kids but I now feel more confident. Thanks for all the great input!


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

Zarafia said:


> Just out of curiousity, what are some of the other benefits of raw goatsmilk?
> There's a lady here on CL who advertises it for $10/gallon and she says she sells all she doesn't use herself.


Try these links.  
http://www.roseofsharonacres.com/raw_goat_milk_benefits
http://www.naturalnews.com/031586_raw_g ... ealth.html
http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/ ... ption.html

I have siblings who have problems with acute ear infections, eczema, allergies, and compromised immune systems. We've found that all these problems disappear when they're on raw goat milk. One thing I like to do is feed poison oak to my goats; it has no effect on them, but when you drink the milk you will build an immunity to poison oak. A lot of folks in my area actually do this... I know one guy who can tromp around in the stuff all day with no effects, whereas before they let the goats eat it he would have to go to the ER when he accidentally touched some.


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## Zarafia (Mar 25, 2012)

THank you!
THat makes sense. I know that one way to relieve allergies is to eat honey that bees made from the offending pollen. Gotta love nature!


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## WarPony (Jan 31, 2010)

Devin said:


> I have been doing a LOT of reading on both sides of the raw milk debate. One side practically has you signing your death certificate if you go anywhere near raw milk and the other side has you leaping over buildings in a single bound with the health benefits of drinking such a superfood.
> 
> I have concluded both sides are full of it . . . Typically I have found that any extreme is wrong in most cases and I think these 2 extremes follow suit.


This made me laugh. i think it is very true.

I drink raw milk, my milk stand is wood, is in the area where i keep my feed and where i lead goats through all the time. i use it for milking, medicating, clipping, hoof trimming, what have you. I milk into a jar or bucket and pour it through a cloth that started life as an old sheet (I cut it up, boiled it, bleached it, and now I use them as udder washing cloths, milk strainers, cheese cloths, etc. I just bleach them all between uses. I don't rush to get my milk cold. I just milk, bring it in the house to strain, then stick it in the fridge.

However!!!! My milking equipment is super clean, taken apart, washed and bleached and air dried after every use. The does teats and udders are washed twice before milking, as are my hands. And any milk I am not entirely sure of goes to the dogs or cats or poultry. I've been drinking fresh raw milk for a year now and haven't leaped any tall buildings yet. I have, however, had a significantly lower number of digestive issues since i quit drinking or cooking with pasteurized cows milk.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Thing is, until around a hundred years ago we just drank our milk.
Then we discovered killing it. And with that came allergies and stomach problems and skin conditions..........................which raw milk now seems to cure. :doh: 

I have suffered extreme seasonal allergies most of my life. Now, from drinking milk from goats who eat the local weeds and eating honey from the bees who make their honey locally; it is nearly April (the worst time for me) and I have barely sneezed and have not taken a pill.

It is not that raw milk cures allergies and other conditions. We have developed these conditions from drinking dead milk and eating food that is grown thousands of miles away from us.


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## LoneStarChic (Jan 19, 2012)

We drink raw milk, but only OUR raw milk.

I have seen the care, hygiene & milk handling of some.......And I wouldn't touch their raw milk for $1,000! If a foot gets in the bucket, it gets strained, pasteurized for bottle kids, or fed to the chickens. Every aspect of milk from the cleanliness of the milk area, to the chilling & filtering is very important to me..... I will not drink raw milk possibily contaminated with fecal matter.

As to benefits...... My 6 year old daughter has eczema that was so bad her sheets would be bloody in the mornings from scratching in sleep..... We tried everything, both holistic & traditional, and nothing helped much. She also has asthma. Took Xopenex breathing treatments every night, Singulair every day, and frequently used her inhaler. Two weeks on raw goats milk, the eczema started to clear up, and now she has barely noticeable spots, no more bloody sheets, and shes not using any of her RX creams. Her asthma is improved as well.......We haven't done regular breathing treatments in a year, she rarely needs her inhaler.

When the girls were dry, I bought pasteurized goats milk from a friend..... Symptoms returned, though not as severe as they were on cow's milk from the store..... When the girls freshened, back on to our raw milk again & she was great!! Not exactly scientific, but for us, we know raw is best


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I will take a testimony like that over *scientific* data done by a corporation anyday. Thank you.

And I agree. We only drink raw milk from our own goats. I like to know where all of my food comes from. And careful handling is essential. The main reason for pasturization these days is so you don't have to be as careful with the milk from 10,000 cows. Homogonization is not without its side effects as well. Because nearly all comercial milk today is both pasturized and homogonized; it is hard to tell what causes which problems.


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## kitten6500 (Dec 31, 2010)

I also drink our Nigerian's milk raw! :hi5: It's delicious!


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

luvmyherd said:


> The main reason for pasturization these days is so you don't have to be as careful with the milk from 10,000 cows. Homogonization is not without its side effects as well. Because nearly all comercial milk today is both pasturized and homogonized; it is hard to tell what causes which problems.


I do agree with this statement. Way back when, cows weren't crammed into massive dairies with hundreds of animals. And where there are many animals, there is also a lot of poop, dust, etc. But early mass production facilities often cut corners to increase the bottom line. People became sick and died from contaminated milk. Pasteurization became standard to kill the excess of disease causing pathogens in the milk. But those pathogens wouldn't have been in the milk in the first place had clean practices been used.

Clean mass milk production can be done, and is nowadays. But people are so darn paranoid that pasteurized milk isn't going anywhere, while raw milk will remain illegal to sell in many places. At least some regions are catching on that raw milk isn't all evil, and it is once again legal to buy and sell if properly labeled and whatnot.

As for homogenization, I don't think it is too bad. I guess the average American likes a consistent product. I know I like taking a dab of the cream on top of non homogenized cows milk to put in morning coffee. A small jersey dairy twenty miles from me sells non homogenized, glass bottled milk. Pasteurized, of course, but it still tastes a million times better than milk in plastic jugs.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Goats milk is "naturally homogenized"....which is one of the many reasons why so many benefit from it being consumed in it's raw state, much easier to digest and get all the benefits of the nutrition. I have always drank and used my girls' milk raw and I was raised on raw goats milk as well....and I'm still "here" LOL


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am no scientist but I believe I have read that homogonization changes the shape of the molecule and causes it to stick to your arteries. I would have to look it up to be sure.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Hmmm....I always thought that homogenized meant that the fats and proteins were broken down to be small enough that digestion easier and separation harder?


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## ETgoatygirl (Mar 23, 2012)

My family and I love to drink our raw goat milk. We are careful to strain it well and cool it quickly. We have never had any problems with it making us ill. We believe that raw milk is better for you in general, that it is not "dead" like pastured milk. But, to each his own


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

liz said:


> I always thought that homogenized meant that the fats and proteins were broken down to be small enough that digestion easier and separation harder?


I went to realmilk.com to refresh my memory. There is quite a bit about homogenization but it is written so technically that I cannot understand it. I could gather that is is not good for you either.


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## hipeatall (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.realmilk.com/homogenization.html



luvmyherd said:


> liz said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought that homogenized meant that the fats and proteins were broken down to be small enough that digestion easier and separation harder?
> ...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks for posting the link hipetall!

The study was a very interesting read...and though goats milk is naturally homogenized due to it's make up, it is different than Cows milk in the aspect that those scientific "words" for the compositition of the proteins and fats are "made" in a different way by the goat whereas a cow needs "help", hence the need for Homogenization by mechanical means....IDK, thats how I absorbed the info.


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## hipeatall (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad you liked it.
The only negative thing I have found in my research regarding _naturally homogenized goats milk_ is it's gonna be really tough to make butter 



liz said:


> Thanks for posting the link hipetall!
> 
> The study was a very interesting read...and though goats milk is naturally homogenized due to it's make up, it is different than Cows milk in the aspect that those scientific "words" for the composition of the proteins and fats are "made" in a different way by the goat whereas a cow needs "help", hence the need for Homogenization by mechanical means....IDK, thats how I absorbed the info.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Natural homogenization is the reason why goats milk doesn't separate as easily.... if you had a quart of raw cows milk and a quart of raw goats milk, taken at the same time, treated in the same manner and stuck it in the fridge for 12 hours, the cows milk would have a thick layer of cream as it separates easily, the goats milk...even that with a high butterfat, wouldn't have nearly as much visible separation.

I still make butter, just takes me a little while to accumulate enough skimmed cream to make it.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

All this cuz people did not want to have to shake their milk!!! (Have you seen the add that says, "real milk does not need shaking.") Drives me crazy.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

LOL... I've not seen that ad but I know what you mean. I usually don't shake but will use a wisk to stir before I pour.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

It is an add making fun of artificial *milk* and the mom turns into a monster shaking the living daylights out of it. Then is says, "Real milk does not need shaking."
My daughter and I cracked up because we know that real milk most certainly does need shaking and wonder how many people are no longer aware of that.


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