# Goat coats for shivering goats



## Harriet Aiken

Cold weather has arrived here in North Idaho and I have found that my 2-yr-old and my two 5-month-old goats are shivering when outside. They are lovely and warm in their barn but we don't want to give up our daily walks in the woods so I need to come up with a solution. Checking old posts I see that coats are suggested. Each of my goats has one of those wonderful weather- resistant coats that Terri and Rex sell but I need something warm underneath. This is what I plan to try: I'll lay out their all-weather coats on a large, old comforter and cut the same pattern, leaving extra at the chest so that it can be overlapped and sewn shut. I think that I should cover their bellies because of the deep snow so I'll cut an extra piece that can be attached by velcro. Question: are goats hard on coats (chewing, tearing, etc.)


----------



## idahonancy

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

My North Idaho goats, are 2 and 1/2 years old. When they wear coats they leave them alone. The only time I put them on is at night when we go elk hunting in September. We go from warm temps up north here to high elevation in Southern Idaho. The sudden night time temps from the 40ies to the teens and twenties is more than my goats have hair for. They go down south with summer hair. The goats seem to know the coats mean warmth. However as the temps progressively get colder at home the boys get thick fleece and the hairs on their bodies almost stand up straight. My thinking is that the fleece and hair trap warmth and that a coat would compress the space that is traping the warmth. I've never hiked them with coats on except when they have to wear their blaze orange hunting safety vests. We walk fast or climb steep. I figure the activity keeps them warm as I have never noticed them shivering when active.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Thanks, Nancy, for the quick reply. Our walks right now are basically strolls that are intended to give time to browse pine needles. Maybe I should do a brisk walk on the hills first before we slow down to browse. I'll try that today.


----------



## gsbswf

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Howdy Harriet,

I am curious to know just how warm and toasty your goats are in their barn? If it is heated or remains significantly warmer than the outside temperatures, your goats may just not be able to acclimate. It is about -11 here (southwestern Wyoming) and was much colder when I fed and watered the kids this morning. They had insta-frost on the hair on their face and any spots that were warm from the way they were laying in the shelter. They were puffed up from the cold, but no shivering. I can't really think of any instances where they shiver unless they are wet, usually from epic battles in the snow in the pasture.

On a sunny subzero day, they come out into their pen area and lay right in the snow and soak up the sun and ruminate. When they are in their shelter, their combined body heat keeps it comfortably warm enough for them, without being so warm that they don't adjust to winter weather. Even in late summer when it was 20 at night and 80 during the day, I don't recall any shivering. The same goes for day hiking around that time, where we would leave the house at 80 degrees and hike to 10,000 feet with 30 degree temps.

I can't offer any other reason for shivering than being indoors and overly warm for most of the time, but that may be a question to ask in itself, so folks who know more can address it. I know the big concern with coats is that they keep them from fluffing up to naturally warm themselves, and can be problematic if used for more than emergency or unusual situations where the goat can't possibly regulate their own temperature. I believe I have been told that if you use coats regularly it can prevent them from acclimating to the cold and growing the proper wool.

Anyway, I hope this helps a bit.


----------



## Bhmntpacker

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

I know that people who put coats on there horses end up with sissy horses that do not grow winter hair. Is it the same with goats?
I have (3) ober yearlings and (3) old Alpine-Saanen's I live in north central wy and it was -10 this morning with about a 10 to 15 mph wind. The boys live in a unheated enclosed pasture shelter that has a small opening to each section in the front. I have one ober who will shiver. But only for a little when they come out to see what I am up to when I am doing chores. I have been feeding the little boys as much alfalfa as they want, 2 cups of COB each, and have kept the bedding deep and fresh. I also give them warm water twice a day. 
The big boys only get grass hay and some black oil sunflower seeds on worming day. I have done everything possible to cut down on the draft in the barn and it is pretty decent. Should I be worried about the shivering? Is there anything else that can or should be done? They all look beautiful with there puffy thick coats.

Thanks,


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Many thanks to everyone who is helping here - I've only had goats for about a month now and would like to get this right.
I have endurance horses that have cardiovascular systems that are trained to shed heat very efficiently. Since this can't be untrained for the winter those horses MUST have warm blankets, even though they grow good hair coats. Since every one else can get by without goat blankets I would like to too! 
We are having minus temps right now. My barn is an old log barn with additions added on all four sides so there are no drafts. The goats are bedded deeply on straw. They are taken out in the morning to their paddock and put back in again at the end of the afternoon. While outside they have an intricate arrangement of straw bales for protection and play. These two places seem to work well for them. My problem showed up yesterday when I took them for their walk in the woods - all three shivered the whole time. We were walking in about 8 inches of snow but they weren't wet. There wasn't even a wind at the time. The only other thought that I have is feed. I know that horses will shiver if feed is'not kept in front of them in cold weather. Because of all the warnings I am getting about too much grain or alfalfa I may be not doing enough. They have grass hay at all times. They get soaked alfalfa cubes twice a day and about 1 cup of goat chow twice a day. Is this enough? Can I safely do more? While outside they have water with a tank heater and inside I just replace the bucket when it freezes.


----------



## gsbswf

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Well, this is slightly turning towards the diet issue, which there is a ton of information on. I do believe it is generally accepted that you don't feed straight alfalfa free choice. My understanding is at most 50/50 mix grass alfalfa and really, they only need grass in winter, although I feed a lower alfalfa content (maybe 20/80) all year. When they are older I will switch to straight grass. 2 cups of oats seems a lot to me, and in winter, no oats with our kids. They get around a cup of sunflower seeds every night and that is it. Oats lower their rumen temp several degrees. I wonder if you feed a lot of alfalfa, you may not be able to cut out oats, with the whole calciumhosphorus thing. All of this is my reinterpretation of research from this site and Carolyn's book. Nutrition is important, but I believe a lot of their warmth in the winter is having stuff in there to digest. I get a lot of pine and willow in the winter so they have plenty of rough stuff in their rumen for the bacteria to act upon and create heat. I don't know how correct that is, and it is just my own feeling from reading other things, but they seem happy.

Otherwise, I would say that Bhmntpacker, you can raise goats that can't handle the outdoor life, but what you describe sounds pretty appropriate for raising weather-hardened goats, so I imagine your shiver is more of a just out of a warm bed shiver.

Harriet, I really think your setup sounds the same. They have to tough it out in the real world all day and have a reasonable place to sleep at night that isn't too cushy or anything. I can't offer any experience other than the too-warm sleeping idea. As far as alfalfa cubes and goat chow twice a day, again, that sounds like high amounts to me, but I really can't say anything beyond what I feed that seems to be working. I would really recommend going through the diet/nutrition stuff on the site for those questions.


----------



## Cazz

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

We rug as many of our goats as possible in winter, and we don't even get snow here. Many of our milking does shiver even with winter fur if they don't have a blanket on, and milk production is greatly decreased by cold without a blanket. I haven't bothered to put blankets on our wethers or some of the bucks this past winter with more than a dozen does and doelings and doe kids to put blankets on, but I think it would be a good idea if it is really cold.
Rugging goats does not make them stop knowing how to make a winter coat - some of ours tore their blankets to shreds on barbed wire fences and within days their short, sleek, beautiful coat turned into a thick, wooly fur. As you can tell, I Don't like winter coats/fur on our goats. It may be natural, but I think it looks awful when some of them won't shed their winter hair until autumn the next year and have about two weeks a year with nice sleek hair. Putting a blanket on continuously from the start of the season stops them growing a winter coat, but take it off for more than a day and they will start making a winter coat. Some of our goats have nearly-summer coats currently from having blankets on, some did have blankets but tore them and grew just some winter hair, and some didn't have blankets on at all and have a thick furry coat, quite scruffy and (for me) an embarrasment. (it is one week to summer here)

If you don't mind your goats to look scruffy, or think that is fine/normal/good/natural or think that winter fur isn't scruffy, I don't mind and am not going to argue or say you are wrong. I'm just going to say, if you want to keep your goats really warm when taking them for walks when it is really cold, you have goats that shiver without blankets, or would like a sleek, shiny coat all year round, (and have the time) then you can make goat blankets/rugs and I would say go for it. I can pm or post on here patterns for blankets, rain coats, under/over and any other blankets you might want. US mail bags (the old canvas ones) make the best over/outer blankets, and woollen or thick old baby blankets make good under blankets. If you have a really good sewing machine then you can join the two together, otherwise there are many ways to make them stay on independantly.
I measure the goat from chest, make the blanket the same length and twice as wide as the depth you would like the blanket. Fold it in half along the length with the width on either side and sew about half of one end up. (this is the front) Sew a short piece of binding/strap/wide ribbon to join the two sides of the other end, and add two straps at least 10in long hanging from about 10-12 inches away from the front. That is your under blanket, you put the head through the hole at the front, slip the strap that is joined to both sides over the rump where it should fit snugly around the thighs, then tie the two straps hanging down in a tight double bow. I can give intructions on the outer blanket and my recycled goat raincoat as well, but must go now.
This is Megs in the middle of winter when she had worn a coat the whole time.
[attachment=2:jr8r0ngp]101_2532.Megs-25%+crop.JPG[/attachment:jr8r0ngp]

This is Hasrbai with one of my early designs, lacking the straps under the chest.
[attachment=1:jr8r0ngp]101_2705.Hasrabi-30%+crop.JPG[/attachment:jr8r0ngp]

This is a doe who we got in a horrible scruffy winter coat and put a blanket on as she was very, very thin. In this photo her winter coat is just about gone, just the thin yellow stuff on her neck.
[attachment=0:jr8r0ngp]101_8910-River-30%+crop.JPG[/attachment:jr8r0ngp]

Cheers,
Cazz


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Good news! We all went for a walk today, browsing our way through the woods for about an hour. Same conditions as before but without the shivering. I'm thinking that they just needed to adjust to the new lower temperatures. 
Thanks gsbswf for your input - I will continue to read everything that I can find on feeding. I have been trying to find Carolyn's book but haven't located one yet. I agree with you that gut action is what really keeps an animal warm - digesting hay is the best source of warmth. 
Thanks Cazz for sharing your thoughts on blankets. I love your pictures! I appreciate very much your offer to send patterns but I have perfect ones from Northwest Pack Goats. I will probably make a coat for each of them as a precaution against illness, etc. But I'm hoping that today was the start of their acclimation to current conditions. We'll walk again tomorrow and see.
A wish from all of us here at Greenbriar Farm to all of you for a wonderful Thanksgiving!


----------



## sanhestar

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Hello,

just my two cents for it, too.

We have cold winters here and our goats live outdoors 365 days a year with weather protection in winter and fall but without because of the brush cleaning we do in spring and summer.

They develop a thick, warm coat that repells light to medium rain or snow. Most of them never shiver, the only sign they show of "it's cold, mum" is that the fluff their hair.

I've seen goats shiver:

that have come to us late in the year from warmer regions or have been kept more protected - I don't take these goats in any longer because the transition is quite hard on them

that are low in body weight - we had one goat last year that had ketosis after birthing, lost a lot of weight and had to nurse triplets. She was the one that wore a coat through almost the whole winter because she was cold, loosing more weight with every cold night and felt simply miserable. In less severe cases I try to build body weight before the real cold hits.

that are younger than one year - I can't explain it scientifically but I suspect that at that age they come to a point where the fast metabolism of growing can't keep up with the strain that the cold puts them under. It's also known that a larger animal has less problems to stay warm because of the body mass/body surface ratio

Feeding grain can in fact reduce body temperature about 1 or 2 degrees and the goat has to work = shiver to get the temperature up again. I also noted the soaked alfalfa. I'm not sure if it applies to goats but in birds it's strongly encouraged NOT to feed soaked feet in winter because it can freeze in their stomachs.

I would change to less grain and add sunflowerseeds for energy (the husk is a great provider of roughage).


----------



## jross

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

I have a different problem. Where I live the winter weather isn't bad at all. Almost no snow, but the nights get pretty cold due cold air sliding down into our valley from the high mountains nearby. By sunup the temp is in the teens. By 2 PM it's mid 50's.The goats have a 3 sided shed (open side facing south), and that keeps them dry and out of the wind. No problem at home.

But sometimes I take them camping in winter at higher elevations where it can get a lot colder at night. They sleep on the ground under a tarp, or in their trailer if the ground is wet. But the nights are a lot colder than they are used to. So I would like to give them coats to wear at night. As soon as we all get up in the morning and the sun comes out the coats would come off.

I think their regular winter coats would keep them warm if I could keep the wind off them. So maybe the basic nylon lined NW goat coats would be good enough. Sort of like a wind breaker over their natural fur. What I don't want is something that will get tangled up, dragged off, or peed on. These goat coats look pretty good. The nylon lined version may also work as a visibility coat during hunting seasons.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

Ok. Off I go to get some sunflower seeds! What a nice treat for them at the end of the day, as a replacement for some of the grain.
I will continue the soaked alfalfa because I feel that it is a replacement for the wet feed (grass and leaves) that they were eating before the snow cover. 
I can't say enough good about the NW goat coats. They are light enough that they don't compress the hair but the goats stay dry (especially needed now when walking through the woods means snow dumping off the branches). I got mine in red and have felt safer during hunting season.


----------



## Rex

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

One other thing to keep in mind is that many goats shiver when they are put into a new situation like going out of their pen into a strange environment for the first few times. I have had goats that shivered when they would meet a new person the first time or during training. Anything new and different can make some goats shiver so it may not always be just because they are too cold.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

I wondered about that. My little Alpine female shivers more often than the others. I now suspect that at least one of those times was caused by just the sight of our dogs, even though the dogs hike with us sometimes.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

A final update: I think it is nerves. They shiver when they leave the barn area; they shiver when they see a dog; they even shiver when I am bringing their feed to them. They don't shiver, even when it is snowing, if they are moving along a familiar trail.


----------



## Rex

*Re: Goats coats for cold weather*

As they get more real world experience and mature they'll handle new things much better and you should see the shivering less and less often.


----------



## Bob Jones

I thought my goats shivered in unison.. then my daughter joined in. Then I realized it was me doing the shivering.


----------



## sanhestar

we have a cold east wind blowing and yesterday even some of my "hardened" goats shivered. I think it's because the change in temperature was so sudden.


----------



## sweetgoatmama

Hair growth is more related to light levels changing which activates the telogen phase of hair growth. Blankets are a good thing to have handy but goats can get dependent on them so less is better. Of course, if they are shivering consistently every morning they will need suppor t in the form of blanketing.

Using blankets while working will not cause the same problems with flattening the hair down preventing insulation that leaving them blanketed in the stall will. It's when they aren't moving that it is a problem.

Just watch that as their muscles warm up they don't overheat.

Changes in temperature like you get when you go up in the mountains are hard on them. Carrying a goat coat is a really good idea when you go packing. Ours have had to hunker down during storms and without the coat we could have had hypothermia easily. Before we did this we had to wrap goats in space blanket material or fleece jackets to warm them and did have some hypothermic goats. Better to just put the blanket on and go to bed than to do the midnight wrap-the-goat in-anything-handy routine in the pouring rain.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

We have been hearing about your terribly cold weather, Sabine. You must be seeing what had confused me at first: a sudden change in temperature results in shivering. I am finally sorting out this shivering business! 

My goats are now doing well wearing their coats to stay dry but not at other times. With luck we won't have plummeting temps again.


----------



## sanhestar

Hello,

well, I don't regard a short period of shivering to be serious - if it stops in time (or at least, I try to - overprotective goat mama  )

I'll shiver when the temperature drops, too, until my body sensors have adjusted to the new challenge.

But I did put a blanket on one of our goats yesterday. It's the same goat that wore a coat last winter, I wrote about her already, the doe with the ketosis and the triplets. I had monitored here closely ever since the cold started and yesterday I noticed that she started losing weight.

All other goats were fine yesterday (although, the cold wind had stopped, too) and all others maintain their weight. But she's showing ribs and so I took action to help her.

Hopefully we will be able to bring them home this weekend. I still have tons of work to do on our stable but this will have to wait (this sudden onset of winter has surprised many sheep and goat keepers in the area). I only hope that it will warm up enough so that I can put the fence posts back in the ground where I opened it weeks before to have better access. And that it doesn't snow too hard on Sunday so that we can move the goats with the trailer (I don't want to hike through all that snow for hours.....)


----------



## sanhestar

They're all home. No trotting through the snow and cold to bring hay and water to the winter pasture this year.


----------



## Harriet Aiken

Good going!! I hope the rest of your winter season goes well, without this kind of surprise! 

Where in Germany is your farm?


----------



## sanhestar

Hello,

we're almost in the middle of Germany. This region is little known even among Germans and is called Vogelsberg (Bird Mountains). It's a group of old volcanos, mostly forest, not much populated, little tourist attractions (the Rhoen which is the volcano group just on the other side of the river Fulda is much better known) and without much industry - until the 1960s it was one of the poorest regions in Germany. 

We're about 1,5 hour drive from Frankfurt, Kassel, WÃ¼rzburg.

But there's a lot of room for the goats.

The fence posts went into the ground surprisingly easy and I should also be able to bring all the mobile fences that we left today on the pastures in tomorrow without too much hassle. I feared it would be worse but the snow cover kept the ground from freezing too hard.

I just checked the goats for the night. They seem content to be home again.


----------

