# breeding angora to a non-fiber breed goat???



## ohiogoatgirl (Jan 31, 2010)

i have been thinking about breeding my new angora does this fall...
first i was thinking of breeding one doe to a pygmy buck and selling the pygora kids...
then i was thinking alot about the fragility of the angoras as a breed compared to the dairy and meat breeds... so does anyone know/heard/read anything about breeding angoras to other breeds to increase um.... stamina? hardiness? you know what i mean...?
anyone ever thought about this?
i'm trying to think of how the kids would be....


----------



## ohiogoatgirl (Jan 31, 2010)

i was thinking a saanen buck....?


----------



## HorsehairBraider (Mar 23, 2011)

Are you breeding the goats for fiber? If so, breeding to a non-fiber goat will not improve your fiber. 

I once kept an Angora cross buck for a friend while he built his new barn. The buck was at my place for a year. During that year, he produced 6 pounds of mohair. That same year one of my does - who was half his size - produced 16 pounds of mohair. I had to feed the buck a lot more than I did her, yet she out-produced him by quite a lot. 

If you are trying to produce fiber, it's not such a good idea. If the goats are just pets and you don't care what they produce, then it does not matter at all of course. 

As far as the vigor, the cross-bred Angoras probably have more vigor. It's just that, until you have been doing a breeding program for a while, that first generation will not produce fiber very well. But as I say, if the goats are just pets, who cares? They can still be cute pets even if they produce no fiber at all.


----------



## ohiogoatgirl (Jan 31, 2010)

well i want them for fiber. thats the other thing i was thinking of about the crossing. you'd have to breed the half saanen half angora to an angora and breed that kid to an angora before you got a bigger goat that also produced good fiber... maybe when i hit the lottery ;D

thanks!


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I do like the pygmy buck breeding better then breeding to the dairy buck. Most folks I talk to (at least pet homes) want a smaller animal. They will have "airplane" ears of course. But, you'll have those in any cross, except Nubian. The problem with crossing is what do you do with the bucklings you produce? If you can't sell them for pets, or fiber, then you are left with the meat trade. And that's OK, I eat meat, but, I have to say, I sold some of my boys for "freezer camp", and it just made me feel sad...so make pygora's...they are a medium size goat and if you like your angora fiber, wait till you see what you get from the pygora, just lovely.


----------



## ohiogoatgirl (Jan 31, 2010)

now i'm wondering about the pygoras.... 
i want to breed the angora does in the fall and keep the babies... but i need money too... so i was thinking breed two does to an angora buck (and keep those kids) and breed the third doe to a pygmy and sell those kids. but now i'm thinking i would like to try keeping a pygora...
so should i breed one doe to an angora buck and breed the other two to a pygmy buck? keep the angora kids and one or two of the pygoras and selling the other pygora kids. hows that sound?


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

OK, so you have 3 angora does, and no bucks, correct?

I would check around and find out who your going to sell to...is the fiber goat in great demand in Ohio? Check with the "cottage industry" types, is there a yarn/knitting/spinning guild in your area? Talk to them, they know who will purchase fiber, what type of fiber they are interested in, etc. You don't want to end up with pounds of fiber you can't sell. This info will help you decide if increase your herd with just angora goats, or if you can expand into other types of fiber. 

Are your angoras producing fiber that is soft to the skin? Or is it coarse and itcy? You can easily find this out without alot of testing...clip a good piece of the best fiber on the goat, it will probably be in the "blanket", imagine where a saddle would sit if you had one for a goat...that's usually the best fiber, take a piece and clean it up a bit, and stuff it in your bra (lol). You will know in short order if this is fiber that could be spun for "next to the skin" clothing...socks, sweater, etc. If not, you are limited to using it for other purposes, rugs etc.

So, you have some homework to do before you make these breeding decisions. Also, when you do the pygmy/angora cross, you get the F1 pygora, as you breed pygora to pygora, you get an F2, etc. As you go the fiber gets better and you will notice there are different coat types in these crosses, from very angora like fiber to very cashmere like fiber (it's NOT cashmere of course, not as soft, but more quantity) the cashmere like fiber can even be combed out, the more angora like needs to be sheared.

Disclaimer, I'm learning alot about fiber, and will be taking fiber sorting training soon, but, I'm not an expert, far from it. This is what I've learned on the fly, I had some pygoras early on. But, unless you can keep them under cover during bad weather, you will loose alot of your fiber because it can matt or felt right on the goat!


----------



## MissMM (Oct 22, 2007)

To keep better fiber quality you would want to stick with a fiber animal. Just an FYI, crossing an angora with a pygmy creates a Gen1 fiber animal, but not a 'true' pygora. That Gen1 animal, when bred back to another angora or registered Pygora would create a registerable Pygora animal. It's hard to explain, but is listed here:

http://www.pygoragoats.org/

I get on average 2 pounds of fleece (some of my Pygoras produce more, some less) with twice a year shearing. To breed for the good Type A pygora fiber, you need to watch the breed pairings carefully to make sure you don't have too high of a percentage of pygmy in the doe/buck combo.


----------



## goat luver 101 (Jul 19, 2011)

I am wondering the same thing u are...I wonder if you bred a angora doe to a Nigerian Dwarf buck what u would get... onder: :laugh: i love these little cartoon goats! LOL


----------



## Boondachs (May 11, 2012)

Angora to Nigerian Dwarf produces a Nigora. 

I am very interested in learning more about this cross. Does anyone here have Nigora's?

I would like to have a goat for fiber probably just for personal use or use by friends, so not looking to make money selling fiber. I spin, knit and crochet with my own stuff and have been buying roving for 5 years now and so would like to venture into having my own.

I currently have 2 baby NDs, a buckling & doeling, and have to get 2 more as partners when I have to split up these two kids so have been looking into getting an Angora doe.

Any thoughts about Nigora's is appreciated.


----------



## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm not sure about the Nigora. I do know that fiber folks generally like the fiber to be 1 color. So, breeding to the Nigerian should produce a very colorful goat...which would create a mixed color fiber. While it would be Ok for you, it may not be so desirable if you want to sell it. I've seen mixed fiber before, it was a very pretty "heather" color, pretty yarn. I'd think it only makes a difference if you want to dye your yarn. I prefer natural color...so that is not important to me. However, my other "fiber" animals are Alpacas, and they are solid color animals, well except for Tobie, he's grey.


----------



## bessmiller (Jan 23, 2012)

I raise Nigoras, and absolutely love them! Believe it or not, mine are mostly cream and white. This is surprising as they come from very colorful parentage on the ND side.

You can read more about Nigoras here: http://nigoragoats.homestead.com/

They range in fiber from a type A, which is more like the standard Angora coat, to a type C, which is more like a cashmere fleece. Most Nigoras shed out their coats in the spring, but I usually go ahead and shear them first just in case.

Here are a few pictures of my Nigoras! This is just three of them--I don't have good winter coat pics of the other two.


----------



## Texas.girl (Dec 20, 2011)

I am by no means an expert on the subject but I do live in goat country, which still claims to be the Angora capital of the world even though that statement is no longer totally accurate. We now have a lot of meat goats around here. I have heard some folks will breed an Angora to a Spanish to get a different quality of hair. I have heard some folks will breed an Angora to a Boer for the meat. This is all hearsay. Boer’s can be very aggressive and the stories I have heard about Boer bucks makes me a bit leery of breeding a Boer buck to an Angora. I would need to talk to others first before making a decision. Basically if I was trying to make your decision I would try to find others with Angora’s and Angora/crosses and ask them about their experiences/opinions. 

I have not wanted to get Angora’s since they need shearing but your kids are so cute.


----------



## jrose (Dec 1, 2011)

I too have Nigerian Dwarf goats and got interested in the idea of Nigoras. Of course, I have does and was concerned about babies being too big if bred to an Angora buck. I was told by someone with Ag background that the babies would not be oversized, but since the moms are pets, I really would like to be sure.

AS a spinner, I can tell you not much pygora fiber is available commercially, very expensive to buy, and nice stuff. No nigora I have found searching.


----------



## marge (Feb 16, 2012)

I have a friend who crosses her angoras(or my angora kids) to Nubians. She loves it because they shed the fiber and she doesn't ever have to shear them. But like the others said she doesn't get as. Uch fiber or the quality the original Angoras had.


----------



## phydough (Jun 3, 2011)

Last spring I was surprised when my nubian does, that were bred to my nubian buck had angora/nubian twins. My naughty little immature (so I thought) buckling was making the rounds under my radar. One set of twins had beautiful soft white hair that was curly, then thickened into nubian like hair with waves and a little longer length. The surprise came from the other set of twins. One little boy, Crackers, whose hair was ultra fine mohair from the get go, ended up with the most beautiful coat. Under his chin, the neck has straight hair that doesn't get longer than 1 1/2 inches of the softest hair I have ever felt, although not the finest. I have angora rabbits that are super soft fine hair but this coarser hair is so soft and slick. I like to run my hand over that unique patch of hair on the underside of his neck and wonder what it is. I've never had a goat have this soft patch before. Anyway, his mohair is finer than my pure angoras when they were kids. It's about 4" now and he's 6 months old. I can't wait to spin it. I blew him off a few days ago with the air compressor after he took a roll in pine needle compost. He didn't have a cover on this summer so he stayed cool, but I kept him clean and now that its cooling off, he has a cover on. Here's a picture after the air compressor cleaned Crackers up. His coat looked like shiny meringue His sister, Cheese, looked like a orangey nubian until August (at 5 months old) when she started growing a light peach/cream-ish mohair like coat too that's now 2 inches long, but not as fine as her brothers but still beautiful and will spin up fine The color looks cream then move with the sun on it and there's peach. I'll attach a picture of her second. You can see her shorter original coat along her spine. I don't know what's going on but it's fun to watch and wait. They aren't as efficient producers as my pure angoras, like someone else said, but sometimes there's a pleasant surprise. Something neat to me raised in my own yard for my hobbies and I love it!


----------



## phydough (Jun 3, 2011)

Here's another pic of Crackers. So Pretty!


----------



## bessmiller (Jan 23, 2012)

I raise Nigoras, and I absolutely love them. I currently have three 50/50 Nigoras and one "heavy" (25% ND/75% Angora) Nigora. The heavy Nigora looks like a miniature and more hardy version of an Angora goat.  She definitely produces the most fleece--beautiful mohair with a 5-6" staple. My buck also produces beautiful fleece, but he has a little more "fluff" about him and produces fleece with a 4" staple. My third Nigora inherited more of the ND characteristics and does not produce the best fiber. The fourth Nigora is not quite a year old, and I am excited to see how her first fleece comes in. It is looking lovely so far!

Anywho, as I have never raised Angoras I cannot compare Nigora fiber output to theirs. However I can say that my Nigoras have been hardy, healthy, happy, friendly, and great producers of both fiber and milk. I really love them. 

You can read more about Nigoras here: http://nigoragoats.homestead.com/
I posted a couple pics of my goaties on this thread, to give you an idea: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/what-do-you-use-your-goats-135120/

~Bessie


----------



## bessmiller (Jan 23, 2012)

Ha, I just realized that I had already responded to this post. Whoops. Forgive the repetition!


----------



## phydough (Jun 3, 2011)

Its like I tell my husband after I watch a movie..Give me a couple weeks and I'll forget. Then I can watch it again. Same goes for here..read a post, reply, then after a couple weeks its all new again and reply again. lol


----------



## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

Had one nigora -- Rosie had the 'type C' (worst class) wool which was more cashmere and dropped too quickly (lost most of it all over the bushes before we realized we needed to comb it out). Loved her (other than that she was ALWAYS the ringleader on escapes), but the girl who owned her (we board for several 4H kids) traded her for an alpaca. Awesome trade - registered alpaca (bred to a registered accoyo alpaca) for an unregistered F1 nigora possibly bred back to an angora. 

BUT Rosie was incredibly hardy compared to the straight angoras. She and Sparkle (our nigerian) were the only ones who never showed any signs of any of the various illnesses/worms/etc we contended with this summer. Some research says the F1s are a dice roll as to whether you get type A (angora type which you shear), type C (cashmere which is combed out - or molts itself) or type B (a mix). 

We never had Rosie in milk, so I can't testify to that, but the research I did on the breed suggests they can milk nearly as well as the nigerians.

Sparkle (our Nigerian) should be giving us nigora babies any day now. Fingers crossed for Type A in her pretty roan pattern (actually ticked, which should be dominant - but the color on ticked takes a long time to develop).


----------



## bessmiller (Jan 23, 2012)

Whoa, that is a good trade! My parents recently bought a couple alpacas, and they LOVE them. Their fiber is absolutely stunning, and so fun to work with.


----------



## Tlambert95 (Oct 16, 2012)

I saw a listing on craigslist for a boer crossed with an angora and it was the cutest goat. Actually I found it http://reading.craigslist.org/grd/3354419109.html this is the cutest dang thing I ever saw and I would have owned her had it been closer.


----------



## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

Unless I can find an angora buck locally for stud service, I plan on breeding my little girl to a Nigerian buck. Yay for fluffy Nigoras!


----------



## LindaF (Mar 5, 2013)

Has anyone bred a Nigerian Dwarf Doe to an Angora Buck? It seems that the other way around is more common. But I understand that the Angora bucks don't have as much odor as Nigerian Dwarfs. I'm just concerned that using a larger buck might cause birthing problems. Has anyone done this with success?


----------



## Lamberts_Mini-goats (Nov 2, 2012)

It's not a good idea to breed a large buck to a small doe , she could have trouble kidding and you might lose both momma and kids. JMHO


----------



## neubunny (Nov 7, 2012)

We had 1 nigora -- Rosie didn't have very good fleece (cashmere type, but we weren't quick enough collecting it I think), but my understanding is that it is a dice roll whether you get regular hair, cashmere or angora (or something in between).

The 'fiber girl' in our club flock picked up 3 F1 pygoras to restart her fiber goat project (after selling Rosie and having very bad health issues with her original angoras). While it is possible to get good healthy angoras, we find that most of what is available in our area and in our price range (not registered) tend to be inbred and have health issues. Several angora breeders in our area suggested she try the pygoras -- breeding back to a good angora buck. She spent more on the new angora buck (a registered out-of-state import that a breeder was moving on in favor of his son) than on any 4 other goats in our club herd combined.

Our nigerian (due any day) is bred back to a (very) small angora buck out of her original angora group. Hoping that cross also solves the health problems we had in the angoras. And fingers crossed on the dice roll for fiber, though the plan is for the baby to be a showmanship animal for my younger son.

And because the rest of our flock didn't take with the dairy buck we brought in, everything else is also bred to the new angora buck ... 2 alpines and an alpine-boer. Those are destined for market goats -- unless something turns up with exceptional fiber.


----------

