# Help....need advice on doe and Keytone Strips where to buy?



## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Hello! We are experiencing our first birth this year.....she hasn't birthed yet. And I don't think I fed her right. Body condition score is approx 6.5. I know not good. I have been letting her eat Orchard grass free choice and pasture (which is very lush at this point). The problem is she fills up on that and then it almost looks like she bloats a bit. She has been grinding her teeth a bit. She is due June 11 approx. I don't want her to get toxemia. I know now that I should not have been feeding her grain until now. But I have been feeding her grain all along.....as well as the other things. So....what would you do at this point?

Where do I buy keytone strips? Can I use the human ones from the drug store?? Or does that matter. 

Thank you in advance for your help!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I feed grain all through pregnancy. You can just get the keytone strips at the drug store.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I feed all year as well....grinding teeth is usually gut pain..get her temp and listen for rumen noise, gasses and burps...is she chewing a cud? Give B complex and probiotics...I would also give Cd antitoxin...


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Thank you for all the responses so far! This helps me! Yes she is chewing cud. I think she is ok today. I took her off pasture. But the problem is she eats so much pasture she just gets so full. Is it normal to have to take them of pasture while they are pregnant? I don't want to have to take her off pasture but we just fertilized the pasture a month ago and it is growing like gangbusters! The goats are just eating and eating when they are out there. 
So we will continue to feed her grain. I am getting keytone strips today at the pharmacy...thank you Karen for that pointer! I will keep an eye on her keytones. 
How much grain and alfalfa pellets in your opinion would you feed each day? She also gets minerals (high quality one) and some salt occasionally. We offer baking soda occasionally as well. We have boys so can't have it out all the time.

Thank you all for your help! I look forward to getting your answers!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh forgot to say....Cathy she had her cdt shot in early April. I haven't given her any B-12 but could do that although I think she is ok at this point. How often should we give her probiotics? Gave her some today.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

fresh fertilized green grasses can cause bloat...try letting everyone out later in the day...feed hay first so they aren't as hungry when they set out to graze..

b complex would be better then B 12..just to get the complete set  
daily probios until she berries up

We raise dairy goats but feed our pregnant girls, who are not being milked...about 3# twice daily..+/- depends on size of goat...in milk and milking them they get 6-9# twice daily...most are gallon+ milkers per milking...

cd antitoxin is not the same thing as CD&T....so when a goat is bloated, has runny poo, off feed, grinding teeth ect any of these or all..you need the antitoxin..which rids the body of the toxins building..CD&T is a vaccine..a toxoid..which is suppose to protect against Enterotoxemia or over eating disease...but sometimes they still get sick and need the antitoxin..


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

With things growing the way they are here right now, the grasses are very high in nitrates. You might invest in a bloat block from your Wilco store. They will use it as needed to keep the gases under control.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill I haven't ever heard of a bloat block. I will look at coastal when I am there today.
Cathy, she never had diarrhea.....but we are giving probiotics. I will give her a bcomplex shot as well. Her symptoms were just she was grinding her teeth after being off pasture and her tummy was very bloated. It went down though we did give her baking soda. 
We will give her a shot of CD antitoxin too. We have it.

She is eating though just not on pasture right now.

Thank you all so much for your help!!

How do I know how much 3 lbs of feed is? Just measure it? Or is a lb 1 cup?


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

bump


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Measure it.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Well my problem is.....she was only out on our lush pasture a hour today and ended up uncomfortable again grinding her teeth. We give her only about 2-3cups of alfalfa pellets a day, less than a cup a day of grain, she gets free choice orchard grass. What would be causing her to feel this way? We are giving her baking soda...... She doesn't have any other symptoms other than very full tummy and looks bloated a bit and grinds teeth. I am going to test her keytones tonight. I got the strips this afternoon.

Any other ideas?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like you need the bloat block. You could give her gas-x.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I went to the feed store and all they had were cattle bloat blocks which had medication in them....the lady at the store didn't think it was for goats. So I didn't get it ugh!

I can buy gasX.

But do I just keep her off pasture? And for how long will this last with her? It is weird. She hasn't ever been this way.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

All I have tonight is Tums and Baking Soda....what dosing would you use?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Bloat blocks are made for cattle as long as they aren't fly control as well they are fine for goats. Goats who are bloating on pasture may have cocci damage or brown stomach worm going on.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would wait until dew is dry before sending her out to graze....feed her hay during this time so she heads out less hungry..you might also try mixing 1/2-1 tablespoon baking soda in enough water to drench and give her that before she heads out....maybe stay ahead of it...Give cd antitoxin if she does bloat again ...

best wishes


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't know what her pasture looks like Cathy but, the grass is already waist high in mine :lol: It's growing really fast this year and the goats don't want no hay anymore.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes we fertilized last month because our pasture wasn't doing well. Welllll it is now. Very lush and green and growing like nuts.

We gave both does 2 T baking soda drenched tonight. HOping that will help them.

Actually I waited to put them on pasture until late afternoon and only put them out for 1 hr! And this happend!

Jill I just had them tested for worms and they were really good.....

All my preg doe had was 600 cocci...which isn't a high load. Nothing else.

My other doe had only 25 trichostrongyle and 50 pinworm. That was it.

So my herd is doing pretty well worm wise. I have been keeping stuff very clean and my pasture is doing well.

I am trying to feed them right....and this happens.

But this isn't happening to my boys. They aren't bloated. Which is weird to me! 

So has to be associated with the grain/alfalfa pellets the girls get twice a day....that is the only thing I can think? Somehow the other food is reacting to the lush pasture?

What do you think? Some places in our pasture are 2 ft tall!


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

We gave the preg doe CD antitoxin and bcomplex today as well as probiotics...

They have free choice orchard grass all the time in the barn. It is a good quality orchard grass....can't do alfalfa cause of my boys. So I give the girls alfalfa pellets....


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Jill I would not know if the Bloat Block would be the right one....not sure if it had fly control or not. 

It had a medication in it, I know that. 

So I didn't know if that was the right one so just came home and drenched them with 2T bsoda. 

I have tums I guess I could give them one of those in the am?

They aren't as bloated as they were the other day....but still grinding their teeth. Tummies are pretty full....not like the other day though.

Not sure what to do with them! lol. She is pregnant....she needs to be on pasture and roaming around right?


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh by the way.....got the keystone strips. She is neg keystones....so that is good!! That was one bright spot in our day. =)


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

bump


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

bump


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad keystone strips were all good.....



> can't do alfalfa cause of my boys.


this is untrue...:grin: Bucks CAN have alfalfa...and its good for them ..increases the Calcium intake to reduce chance of Urinary Calculi ..we have fed Alfalfa, alfalfa pellets or chafe hay for years with great results..


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Some goats never go on pasture, they eat hay year round. It will not hurt her to be off the lush grass. Take her for a walk on a daily basis. 

Goats don't have a good "off" switch when it comes to eating, so if the forage is really lush, they will continue to eat past a safe point! Silly goats!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I don't know what her pasture looks like Cathy but, the grass is already waist high in mine :lol: It's growing really fast this year and the goats don't want no hay anymore.


That is the truth...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

My Nubian that is due on the 13th also grinds her teeth some.. I give a handful of grain to her morning and night, and 2 cups of alfalfa pellets, and browse all day... Grass is growing really well here. She is healthy otherwise, no temp, good rumnen function, poos and pees fine, chew her cud... I can't figure the grinding of her teeth either..


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh this is a very nervous time having a goat that keeps grinding teeth and having bloat issues while so late in pregnancy. The lush green grass will cause this. You are a great goat manager in your concerns and are doing well. A goat like this has to be pampered a bit to relieve her bloat. I had one that I had to go out and burp her each day when she got too large. Sounds funny, but I did this to all our pregos toward the end to help them get the air out. If she is grinding her teeth, she is having trouble. I used to crush tums, mix with minerals and powdered probios and roll some small apple pieces in this mix and give it to the bloated goats. I wouldnt give straight tums to her as it needs to have other minerals mixed with the calcium. The one doe we had that was grinding her teeth so much was in so much pain- mostly because she was so big and carried so much water with her babies. She kept licking up the salt mineral block -even chewing it up so much that I had to remove it. I ended up pampering her and giving her a couple spoonfuls of crushed tums, mineral powder, probios mixed with molasses to make a candy paste. She lacked room in her body with growing babies to digest her food well and had to have me 'burp' massage her rumen side. It sure helped and she made it full term with some very large triplets. Keep watching/feeling her side to see how tightly full of air it is- you will need to help her by gently patting that side to help break the air out. We also used the ketosis strips and kept testing that same doe and she was negative but showed some traces towards the end of pregnancy which is why I started giving the spoonful of molasses candy mixture to her each day. 

and I love your two wethers on your website. How cute they are.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

I always weigh my grain and alfalfa pellets. A pound of oats looks different that a pound of alfalfa pellets. Volume and weight are two different things. Get yourself a little digital scale that weighs in standard and metric. You can get them cheaply online. I've used mine so many times.
Try and make sure you always have baking soda out so they can use it when they need it.
Goats weren't designed to live on lush, fertilized pasture. Lower quality pasture, weeds, hay, browse- that's what they usually do best on.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Cathy:

Actually I don't have bucks....but wethers. The vet said no alfalfa. So I am assuming this is correct. Maybe your bucks can have them without getting uc? Maybe wethers can't? Not sure. All I know is that the vet school vet said NO. So I know they see bucks each week and they are doing UC surgeries to remove stones. So I am assuming when they say no alfalfa that means I probably shouldn't give him any.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

We have been keeping our doe off pasture and she is doing much better. Our pasture is just going nuts! We are going to have to cut it. It is already going to seed!! Can't believe it! We have been getting rain and then hotter days and then colder days with rain. ugh. But this is great for our pasture! Unfortunately our goats can't keep up with it! I know when it goes to seed the grass is very rich and therefore that is what is causing all this tummy stuff. But what is interesting is it isn't causing any issues for my two wethers....they can eat out there and don't have any issues seemingly. It is my two does...one is preggo and the other isn't. They tend to get a bit of bloat.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

Erin:

I can't give her a lb of grain.....she'd be a buffalo! It's something like 3 cups of grain!! That would be too much for her. She is actually doing ok I think with what we are feeding her. Another month to go and she will have kidded I think. Just trying to figure out the hairloss now since she got Bose April 8 and Copper around Feb 20. I don't understand why she is loosing hair now. ugh. She looks healthy though!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Buck Naked Boers said:


> Cathy:
> 
> Actually I don't have bucks....but wethers. The vet said no alfalfa. So I am assuming this is correct. Maybe your bucks can have them without getting uc? Maybe wethers can't? Not sure. All I know is that the vet school vet said NO. So I know they see bucks each week and they are doing UC surgeries to remove stones. So I am assuming when they say no alfalfa that means I probably shouldn't give him any.


My bucks & wethers got straight alfalfa last year, no issues... So not sure why you can't give it to wethers...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Cathy:
> 
> Actually I don't have bucks....but wethers. The vet said no alfalfa. So I am assuming this is correct. Maybe your bucks can have them without getting uc? Maybe wethers can't? Not sure. All I know is that the vet school vet said NO. So I know they see bucks each week and they are doing UC surgeries to remove stones. So I am assuming when they say no alfalfa that means I probably shouldn't give him any.


Im not sure why they say this...wethers need it more so...keeping the calcium and phosphorus ratio at a 2-2 1/2 :1 is what prevents UC...No grain I can see...they dont need it..but grain, hay and minerals all have phosphorus and so adding alfalfa helps balance things out.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

I can see your points on this. I will ask them when I take him down to have surgery. I want more answers as well. Glad you brought this up. We took away his alfalfa pellets.
He has calcium stones though.....or they think he does, won't know for sure until surgery. But if he has calcium stones maybe he should not have as much calcium?

So confused....just want him healthy and I am trying to do all I can.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Would you ask your vet what the metabolic differences are between African goats and Swiss goats. Maybe we're missing a key piece of information here. I'll e-mail mine with the same question.


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## Buck Naked Boers (Oct 15, 2012)

After going to OSU yesterday I am not sure I have a local vet at all. Nobody here knows much about goats....so not sure who to ask this to. I could ask OSU....they might know? What did your vet say?


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