# Which would you choose?



## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

I decided not to go with the Pygmy doe that was for sale. I seen this ad on Craigslist for Mini Manchas and Mini Nubians and we're going to check them out either this Friday or Saturday, thet have been tested negative for CL and CAE. Have any of yall had experience with either one? I'm not sure which one we should go with.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Either is fine. Genetics play a big role in milk production so try and see their moms too.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

That would be a hard choice, I like both Sorry, I know I'm no help.


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## Plumpers (Sep 8, 2013)

I prefer the mini nubes but that's just because I love the breed!


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## georgiagirl98 (Jun 30, 2013)

I love Nubian ears! Yet i love lamanchas no ears too! Lol sorry no help here either.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

This is going to be a very hard decision for me lol, I've heard La Manchas are sweet but cwn be major herd queens and that Nubians are sweet but their really loud! Lol


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

Well, I have a very loud Lamancha that is at the bottom of the herd totem pole.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I would have to go mini Nubians but then you probably could have guessed that from my user name. LOL


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

I do love the floppy ears of the Nubian, not sure I could get used to the La Mancha ears. But I heard La Manchas produce better than Nubians?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

maybe go visit both and see which you like in person? there are pros and cons of each. 

good luck with your decision, and can't wait to hear which one you end up picking!


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you! I will definitely post pics of our new girl(s)!


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Well the man who had the Mini Nubians and the Mini Manchas sold them a few days ago and that is fine because today we were blessed with two Mini Toggs!!! I seen an ad for these two beautiful doelings who are twins and the herd was tested neg. for CAE and CL back in February. And we got both of them ! They are super sweet, I will post pictures of them on here tomorrow. Their Dam had a lovely udder and is an ADGA Togg and the sire is a beautiful jet black Nigerian, they both look just like their Momma, beautiful little Toggs


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Well that is interesting never even heard of mini toggs. I think toggs are pretty. Congrats on your doelings.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank you! It was actually an accidental breeding, her Nigerian buck got in with her Toggenburg and bred her. There are people though that do breed for Mini Toggs as well as the other Minis. The Mini Toggs and Mini Obers aren't as popular as the Mini Nubians and Mini Pines. There are also some Mini Saanan breeders out there too.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Can't wait for pics... I love the markings of a Toggenburg.... Cool, mini Toggenburg


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

I agree with the go visit each. I do know the Nubians are the most vocal - but they are really nice goats. What about the milk? Any taste difference between the two? I had French Alpines once and the taste of the milk was very strong - no one liked it. I would taste the milk of the breed if possible at the breeders.


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

It would be nice to have the higher milk production, in the Mini size.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

That's what I am hoping to see with these Mini Togg girls I have, they are so sweet I am in love! Their even a tiny bit taller than Maya our Nigerian but Maya is stockier, and Maya is over a year and a half old, these girls are 5 months old.


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## AmyBoogie (May 20, 2013)

They're beautiful!


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

Very pretty girls! They have cool colors too. Love the cocoa colored one!


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

They are truly gorgeous, congrats! If it were me I would want them to be an in between size between toggs and ND's but that is just me. At five months they stilll have some growing to do. They sure look togg I really don't see the ND in them at all!


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

I love them!!!! Oh, they are sooo beautiful! Congratulations.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh my goodness!! So cute, and beautiful I'd say you scored Love the markings


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank yall so much! I really love these babies they are just so sweet too, and they really do look like a downsized version of a standard Togg. I don't know if you can see but the darker girl "Dancer" has wattles. I am hoping that they mature to an in between size too, that would be perfect!


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

Beautiful! Congrats! I've always loved the Togg color.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Very cute!


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## Binski5080 (Aug 2, 2013)

Def go visit both if you can before making a decision. Personalities vary so much between breeds, and how they were raised is a big factor too. Some goats that werent handled much as babies never seem to warm up to people, no matter how much you spoil them.  Production will vary greatly by breeder too, so take a look at thier dams and granddams if they are avaliable to view.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Gorgeous girls! 
Get paperwork on the parents so you can register them through the MDGA or TMGR. I use TMGR because most of their members and shows are out west, your mileage may vary. 
Your difficulty is going to be finding at least an F1 registered Mini Togg buck to breed them to in order to get F2 babies. Minis aren't considered purebred until the 6th generation. On thing you can do if you can't find a Mini Togg buck is back breed them to a registered, purebred Nigie buck. Your babies will turn out a little smaller than their mamas and will still be registered as F1s, not F2s. Some mini breeders do this on purpose to get sizes down. 
I bought my first mini buck from a Togg breeder in the southern part of my state who uses a nigie buck to breed all her first year full sized togg does to get them into milk for shows. She doesn't bother with registration on the babies, isn't really interested in minis, she does it that way because minis are so easy to sell. Her nigie buck is registered so I had her keep her best blue eyed mini boy (that's him in my avatar, "Chapito"...Shorty) for me one year and was able to continue breeding minis. Most of my minis are blue eyed as a result. A little bonus...


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

NubianFan said:


> If it were me I would want them to be an in between size between toggs and ND's but that is just me.


My minis are all basically about 2/3 of a purebred Togg down to half a Togg at F3 and beyond. 
The only oversized mini babies I got were from breeding my F1 buck to full sized does, but they still qualified and were registered as F1 minis. There is no height restriction for first gens.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Our Nigerian doe Maya is a tiny little thing, she only stands about 15 inches at the withers at over a year and a half, these girls are about an inch taller than her at 5 months. I hope they get bigger, I would love to see them get to 23-24 inches, is that possible that they can go through some growth spurts from now till their a year? Maya is just super tiny for a Nigerian but she's filled out good. The Nigerian who was a sire to these Mini Togg girls was not registered but the Dam was registered through the ADGA. I would love to find a Mini Togg buck sometime in the future, right now we have our Nigie buck Reggie.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Full sized Toggs don't achieve their adult size for about 2 years. This is true of most standard dairy breeds. Your girls will grow. I bet they'll be 25 inches in two years. My F1 buck was 18 inches at 4 months and grew into a 90 lb. monster at 28 inches.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Thats so good to hear! At what age do you usually breed your girls?


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

I will be very interested as to how their milk production is. I am the only one consuming my Nigi milk. I have only 1 goat i production - and for me it is enough. But I am just making cheese with it - and now ice cream. ^^ It is delicious however. A month ago - I was toying with the idea of a Mini std. goat - just to get higher milk production. Now I'm glad I dont have one - how much cheese can I eat? lol


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

littlehooves said:


> Thats so good to hear! At what age do you usually breed your girls?


Size is more important than age. I look for about 75 lbs on my standard toggs and around 40 for the minis.

There is good info in the Mini forum about other Nigie/standard cross breeds that holds true for Mini Toggs. I'd be looking for some well developed capacity; width and depth before breeding. My minis seem to have retained the Nigerian trait of having LITTERS rather than twins or triplets. This is a trait that I could easily do without. One of my first pair of F1 does kidded FIVE on her first breeding and came down seriously ill from an infection. The vet brought out his portable ultrasound and said he felt she probably had a uterine scrape, not a tear or perforation luckily. She survived but I've been reluctant to breed her since. Her twin always kids two or three.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

littlehooves said:


> Thats so good to hear! At what age do you usually breed your girls?


There is no way I would breed a female under 8 months old. They are just too immature physically and mentally.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Thank God your Doe was ok!!! Wow that is a scary situation, we bred our 4 year old German Shepherd to a gorgeous German Shepherd stud last year and her pregnancy went along smoothly puppies, were very active in there and we took her in to get an x-ray to see if she will birth them ok and how many were in there, there was 7 and everything looked good. Well the big day came, I had her whelping box all ready and her first two were stillborn, she didn't have any contractions for 3 hrs and I started to get pretty worried. We took her into the emergency vet as it was late at night, and she had to get a c-section. None of the puppies made it  but I thank God our girl did, so scary! Yeah I thought weight would be much more important in the Does rather than age. That is a lot of kids! I hope we have twins and such around here, I'd be worried about the kidding if there's more like your Doe, but if there is more than 2 or 3 you would probably have to supplement right?


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

No I was thinking about waiting till they were a year like I did with our Nigerian (well she's over a year). But I can't tell if our Nigerian is pg she is still so little. If she is pg she would be about 3 months along.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

I love how the Toggs look like little white tailed deer from the back


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

My Dru looks a little too much like a deer for my taste. She is the same color as a whitetail, I think I am going to buy her an orange vest for hunting season.


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## littlehooves (Aug 28, 2013)

Lol that's too funny! That would be adorable! :laugh:


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

littlehooves said:


> Thank God your Doe was ok!!! Wow that is a scary situation, we bred our 4 year old German Shepherd to a gorgeous German Shepherd stud last year and her pregnancy went along smoothly puppies, were very active in there and we took her in to get an x-ray to see if she will birth them ok and how many were in there, there was 7 and everything looked good. Well the big day came, I had her whelping box all ready and her first two were stillborn, she didn't have any contractions for 3 hrs and I started to get pretty worried. We took her into the emergency vet as it was late at night, and she had to get a c-section. None of the puppies made it  but I thank God our girl did, so scary! Yeah I thought weight would be much more important in the Does rather than age. That is a lot of kids! I hope we have twins and such around here, I'd be worried about the kidding if there's more like your Doe, but if there is more than 2 or 3 you would probably have to supplement right?


You'd be surprised how many they can support, you just have to watch growth to make sure everybody's getting a turn. My does, large and mini, ALL tend to favor their boys and will let a little buckling hog more milk than his sister(s) get. Triplets or more I just watch things carefully. Happy your dog survived!


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

I have noticed also - the doe favors the bucklings as far as nursing goes. 
The last doe to kid (FF) had triplets - sigh..... 2 bucks/1 doe. I would hold the biggest buckling while the other two nursed. LOL - it was so funny. He was gorgeous also - blue eyes that would melt you - I "renamed" him - Newman. ^^


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