# New to site, and I get my goats tommorrow (Nigerian Dwarves)



## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

Hello all,

I'm just so excited I have to share. I had goats growing up, but I haven't had any recently due to school and college. For my birthday, I went to city hall, and it turns out I can have goats! I am soooooo happy, I'm just bursting at the seams! Because, of course, I've been researching Nigerian dwarves, and breeders, and watching the ads. And yes, I'm prepared: They have a fenced area, I have a 6 foot fence to keep out dogs, shed, shade, water, minerals, hay, grain, etc, etc.

Here is a pic of the doe I'm getting, along with a doeling that I'm also probably getting (ie, 99% sure I'll fall in love with her and not be able to let go when I see her):









Here's the doe's pedigree, and from what I understand, I've got a pretty high quality doe here (she's 2 years old, this is her first freshening, and she's giving almost 3 cups of milk a day). Could I get some input please?
Sugar Pine LK Nala
 Sire: MCH Promisedland CP Holy Smoke *S
Sire: NC Promisedland HS Lion King
Dam: Promisedland LD Safari

Sire: Sugar Pine FD Starburst
Dam: Sugar Pine SB Blackstrap
Dam: Mounyain QuestAE Molasses
Now for a few "duh, I should know this" questions:

1. How do you guys who don't own bucks get your does bred anyway? Particularly if you in the northwest, because it seems like most herds are closed? How hard is artificial insemination? When is it worthwhile to get a buck?

2. There is also a senior doe from the same herd for sale. She's eight years old, and the owner would give me a steep discount if I bought all three does. How long do you expect a Nigerian to live? Is 8 too old to bred again? She's also giving 3 cups of milk a day. Her pedigree:

Sunburst Farm's Elvira

Sire: Gladys Porter Zoo Ali's Pirate +S
Sire: Sunburst Farms Tobias
Dam: Enchanted Hill Moonshine

Sire: Goodwood Loganberry *S
Dam: Sunburst Farms Josie *D
Dam: Karim's Lota Dots
Thanks, everyone!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

wow.. those are pretty old lines!!

the 8 year old doe.. i'm kind of topsy turvy on.. it would really depend on how many times she has freshened, and the body condition she's in


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Here is a pic of the doe I'm getting, along with a doeling that I'm also probably getting (ie, 99% sure I'll fall in love with her and not be able to let go when I see her):Image


 I don't see a pic.....



> 1. How do you guys who don't own bucks get your does bred anyway? Particularly if you in the northwest, because it seems like most herds are closed? How hard is artificial insemination? When is it worthwhile to get a buck?


 If you cannot find a breeder close to you... and can't travel long distances to get your does bred.....then if it were me ...I would be forced to buy a buck....if you do... have your own buck .....you can have a closed herd to....that is the safest bet..... to not bring in diseases...even if it is.... for a couple of does.....that is just my opinion ....but it is totally up to you ..... :wink:



> 2. There is also a senior doe from the same herd for sale. She's eight years old, and the owner would give me a steep discount if I bought all three does. How long do you expect a Nigerian to live? Is 8 too old to bred again? She's also giving 3 cups of milk a day.


 I have to agree with SDK..... it all depends... on the doe and her aging...........if you can get pics of her... that would help for us to try to help......8 is up there... but .....they can go longer..... if she was well cared for.... prior to you getting her..... :wink:


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## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

That's weird, the pics were showing before. Let me try to fix it.

I don't have a good picture of Elvira- I think I'll just get Nala and the doeling, because I don't feel confident in my ability to judge older animal. And it's probably a better idea to start off slowly. 

Here's the pics the owner has sent me.


















Nala is the brown and black on, and Elvira (the 8 year old) is the black and white one in the back ground. I don't think I need to point out the doeling. :wink:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep.... the pics worked... I see them now......good job... :wink: 

they look very nice.....the baby is so cute.....  I like them....... :greengrin: 

As for the older doe ......that is up to you ....if you are unsure then it is wise to not get her.......but ....is she preggo? She looks big in the pic... :wink:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I recognize Promisedland, but not so much the others.

Nala and her doeling are very nice...that doeling is a flashy lil' thing!

As far as milk production, I'm assuming they are being milked once a day? For just 3 cups, it's not bad but a nigi has the potential to produce more...My 4 year old doe is 11 weeks fresh and milked 2x a day and gives 7 1/2 cups.

As far as the older girl goes, I do agree with SDK, her overall health and condition would be the reason wether she should be bred again or not. A retired doe can live as long as 18 years but I personally would not breed beyond 10 years of age....
It would likely be in your best interest to purchase a buck as it can be a pain to travel with your does to have them bred...get him a buddy as well so he's happy when not in "use"
Good luck with getting your place ready for the goaties, sounds like you have found a great deal on the does.


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## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

toth boer goats said:


> Yep.... the pics worked... I see them now......good job... :wink:
> 
> they look very nice.....the baby is so cute.....  I like them....... :greengrin:
> 
> As for the older doe ......that is up to you ....if you are unsure then it is wise to not get her.......but ....is she preggo? She looks big in the pic... :wink:


I don't think she's pregnant because when I asked how much milk they were giving the lady said she was giving 3 cups a day also. I am realizing there are a few more questions I should have asked- how many times a day are the milked, are they prego, who do you use for buck service, etc. Oh well, I'll find out today, I guess.


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## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

liz said:


> As far as milk production, I'm assuming they are being milked once a day? For just 3 cups, it's not bad but a nigi has the potential to produce more...My 4 year old doe is 11 weeks fresh and milked 2x a day and gives 7 1/2 cups.


I don't actually know how many times a day they are milked- it didn't occur to me to ask. From what I understand, does are expected to increase their production in later lactaions...is that true?

Thanks!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey! I have Nala's half brother!  They have the same sire, Lion King. I also had a maternal sister a while back. Lion King was a really nice buck, had some issues with his knees but tested negative for CAE many, many times. Haven't noticed any issues with his son. . . he has tested negative too.

Anyways, nice bloodlines. For a FF, that is pretty good. I am assuming she only had the single doe? If so, that is pretty good. If she had more than one kid, I would want to see higher production.

I wouldn't purchase the older doe, she is showing her age pretty well. I could be wrong but is that a large lump on her back? Maybe it's something else and my eyes are fooling me. . .

If you have the room for a buck, that would be easiest.

Congrats on your new additions! We must be pretty close, well kind of. Lacey is near Olympia, right?


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## ChestnutGrove (Apr 30, 2009)

They all look nice and they all look healthy and they have nice pedigrees. I would buy the older doe - google her name and you will see why - she had a very nice udder when she was younger. Older does are a gamble - you do not know how long they will live. I lost older does this year - Princess Diana and Mimic - they almost made 9 and 10 years old. Both in great health - it was just their time (still hurts not to see them in the field and in the yard). Janine turned 10 Feb 24 and she is still going strong. People have had does kid into their teens with out a problem staying in great health.

If the price was right I would take the chance - I love Goodwood so that is a huge plus for me that she has Goodwood close up- and when I googled her name and saw the foreudder and rear udder she had - if you got a good buck kid or doe kid from her it would be worth keeping in hope it would pass on that udder. We have been the retirement home of many older does though the years - even if they do not settle it is nice to know they got a nice retirement with us and a happy ending.

Deidre


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I don't think she's pregnant because when I asked how much milk they were giving the lady said she was giving 3 cups a day also. I am realizing there are a few more questions I should have asked- how many times a day are the milked, are they prego, who do you use for buck service, etc. Oh well, I'll find out today, I guess.


 ecologystudent....find out those things....it is up to you.... if you want the older doe....good luck... :wink: :greengrin:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if the older doe isnt pregnant then she could easily have a failing stomach ligament (what holds her barrol in place). She may have had quads or more at one time which not all does return to their pre baby figure.

I would breed a doe past 9 so to me it isnt worth it since you probably can only have a limited number of goats at your place making it harder to sell her later if you want to keep doelings or buy more.

3 cups a day? seems like a small amount. I would be concerned about that as I like to see them giving 3-4 cups a milking (which is aprox 1/2 gallon a day). 

Those with greater capacity do better in the show ring.


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## ChestnutGrove (Apr 30, 2009)

I agree that 3 cups a day is not a lot (missed that when I read your post) - When you ask them how many times a day also ask do they milk every 12 hours - that will effect milk production.

Deidre


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

Hi!
Can you please write to me privately and give me the info for who is selling Sunburst Farm's Elvira. We used to own "Sharky" and would really like to be able to bring her home to retire on our farm! Even if she were never bred again we would like to be able to give her the retirement she deserves. 
She was our first Nigerian Dwarf doe. First met her at a show as a yearling back in Placerville CA. Later moved her to WA with the rest of the herd. Sharky had a beautiful udder back in the day(remember judges taking a good look at her for best udder in show selections) and produced a lovely daughter we still have in our herd along with several Grand daughters and Great Grand daughters.

My email is [email protected]

Thanks!

Shannon @ Poppy Patch Farm


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## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

That's cool, Capriola! She had twins, but the owner wasn't there when the first one came out, and he died in the sack, because this was her first time kidding and she didn't clean him off (when I say she I mean the doe).

As for the older doe, no, it wasn't a lump on her back, it was a basket ball sized bump on her side. The owner said that the person she bought her from said that that sometimes happened when a goat was bred a lot. She was pretty vague, and I didn't like the look of it. 

Deidre, I too googled her, and was pretty impressed with her. I decided against getting her, however, because she just looked pretty ragged in real life. However, I did get "Button" which is her daughter.  That's the "flashy" doeling in the pictures.

StaceyRoop, that sounds like a pretty good diagnosis for Elvira. I just didn't like the look of it, and I don't really know much about goat health issues, so I decided against getting her. 

Well, that and Casey get say in the goats, and he vetoed her. He, not having raised goats, doesn't really know much besides looks, but I was leaning that way myself. 

Yes, three cups a day. However, it seems that she's not getting quite the amount of grain she should - half of a fish tin, so less than half a cup (and some being stolen by Button)? I was looking at your site, Capriola, and you say 2 to 5 cups for milkers, so I'm guessing that's not enough. She's been feeding a small amount of pelleted alfalfa, and they are grazing on grass that's mowed (it's their lawn). She's been milking twice a day, but it seems they don't always get milked at the right times on weekends, and I'm not sure how well milked-out they are. The owner also said that she had a hard time getting her going, but I found that when I washed her down well, she let down just fine. 

I have them now, and I'm quite pleased with them. I'm going to see what I can do to improve her production- more grain, better quality food, more exact timing of milking, maybe milking 3 times a day? But really, it's fine, because that's actually about what we drink in a week. So, when I get two going.....I can experiment with fermentation! I don't really want to show yet, but I'm sure my opinion on that will change quite quickly- I used to do 4-H. 

Hi Shannon, I was actually the person who emailed you guys earlier. I guess I don't need to come out to your farm to see the dwarfs now, as I have my own! But yes, I'll send you the lady's email, etc. 

Capriola, yep, Lacey is pretty close to Olympia- next door neighbors and not an inch of empty space between the two. 

Thanks, everyone!


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## ChestnutGrove (Apr 30, 2009)

Oh Shannon I hope it works out that you can get her! (Anyone who has not taken a look at Shannon's site should as she has a lovely herd)

ecologystudent - that is great that you got the two other does and that is great that the doeling is a daughter - will be fun to see how they freshen! - and you did the best by going with what you felt was right for you. 

Deidre


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

What cute goats you have there. Is that you back yard in town? Looks like they are going to be very happy with you.


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## ecologystudent (May 30, 2009)

sweetgoats, that's actually the previous owner's yard.

They've settled in well, and Nala gave me 3 cups today. I noticed that her udder is slightly lopsided, but the previous owner said she was better at milking with one hand than the other, so I think that explains it. They had fun munching, and nibbled on lichen, and are very happy and so sweet.

The only ration they had at the feed store was for meat goats, so that's what I have for now, but I'm thinking I'll mix my own in the future (Thanks, Capriola!) Anyway, a few pics from today.

(Please ignore the chicken pen in the back with the bunny on top....{I let the pullets out for a little free time, and the bunny is up there because she likes exploring too much})










Nibbling lichen, but not stripping the tree at all:









Why does she lick me, even though they have access to loose minerals? @@


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## poppypatch (May 30, 2009)

Sharky aka Sunburst Farm's Elvira came home to her forever home this morning thanks to Anna's help finding her! She was the last lonely goat left at the place where she was so that made it all the more wonderful to be able to get her.
She knew her way back to the barn even though she had not been here in four years. Goats do have a better memory than we often give them credit for! She is in a separate pen with her old buddy Abby for now. 
She is a bit thin and raggedy from the way we remember her but we will get her wormed, copper bolused and Bo-Se this afternoon. 

Shannon @ Poppy Patch Farm


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Awww, Nala and her baby are looking quite content! Beautiful girls. They like the "salty" flavor....and it's great to see the little one so friendly! Mine do the lick and nibble thing too....sometimes a bit too much "nibble".....and it TICKLES!

poppypatch, it is wonderful that you brought the old girl back home, I'm sure she'll be enjoying quite a few more years with you. :hug:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

happy people all around! thats just great :greengrin:


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

I wanted to add, and you can check out my site, I have two does that are between the ages of 8-9 and one just gave me a wonderful lil girl, Le-La and the other gave me a very healthy and loving girl last 9/11. I guess my point is, these two goats seem VERY well taken care of and though I would ask for a better pic of the older doe, I see no reason why you can not bring her home. She if nothing else needs a good home and if you get one breeding out of her you have replaced her for when it is time for her to move on. I personally have seen quite a few goats get will past 10-13 years of age and they are not happy without kids. So if you ask me, after seeing my older does kid and knowing the family ties in goats, you would be fine bringing an older doe home and breeding her a few more times before you retired her.

As for the buck, to me it is better to just get something you like. For one, it costs to do A.I.s and there is never a guarantee unless you implant, which is more money. Not knowing what my goats might catch or what may happen to them, I have a hard time trying to make reasons why my goat would leave to be bred. I know very few goats I would would do this with and very few breeders I would chance it with as well. If you want to breed, it is my opinion that you do just that, get a buck and breed. If need be you can always sell your back when you decide to stop and in the long run it may not cost you near as much. These of course are just my thoughts.

Thanks for listening hope I helped someone,


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## jdgray716 (Aug 8, 2008)

Well, I just realized there was more to the topic then I had seen. Sorry. Page two was not noticed till after the fact. :roll: 

I am very happy to hear that the girls made it home. I have a few does that are "lop sided" at this time. They both only had one kid on them and that is the reason and possible reason for your situation as well. It at least would be a very good contributing factor if that doe is still nursing. When I pulled one of the kids I did not see a difference till about a week. I then realized she had bagged up quite a bit more on one side then the other. She since has dried out fine but this is why I would much rather have twins then singles but that is not up to me. I have another that her kid only drinks from one side so her other side really has nearly dried up already and the one side is the one producing. It is inconvenient to me but the way of the world I guess. In meat goats, the breed I have, they do not bag up a lot anyway so when no one is hitting the other side or doing it very little milk slows WAY down and all together at times.
Congrats again on your two new babies. :clap: 

PoppyPatch, I am so proud of you. :leap: :stars: :clap: :hug: :wahoo: You did as I would have. If nothing else she now has a good home. As for the memory part, the longer I have goats the more I realize they are just that more amazing. The brains, family ties, and so one amaze me more every day. I again am glad you have her. I never have a problem against older goats. I took my Chickory knowing she had breaked from kidding for two years. Never took for several bucks. Got here, and not even 7 months later we had Le-La. The doe never gave a doe ever in her breeding history either. At times, I think God just knows best how to reward us for these good deeds. HEHE :thumbup:  

Well, again congrats to all! :clap: :dance: :hi5:


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