# a cl question and 4-h



## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

Ok as mentioned in my other thread this past year was my daughter's first year in 4-h she's been showing a wether. Well an acquaintance invited us to come iver with our goat so they could help her learn how to lead. At this point we'd had our wether maybe a month or two and I had done so much reading about goats and goats health and disease and feeding and breeding my eyes were crossed! 

Ok fast forward and we show up to our friends house my daughter is in the pen with her goat and a couple of my friends kids were working with their goats in the pen as well then their son says"hey mom! Lucy (his goat) has one of those warts on her neck" I look over and she has a knot on her neck I start freaking out inside but I don't want to just come out and ask do you have cl out here? !?!?

I was too new to the goat scene to confidently accuse so I gingerly asked "aw did she get those from shots? " my friend says "no its called cl and its a genetic thing passed down from mom to baby" they have a couple hundred goats I was appalled that they told me my goat couldn't catch it! Needless to say I hightailed it outta there. Ok if you've made it this far thanks and here are my questions.
Is it against the rules for them to bring their animals to the show? I know if one gets knots befor they bust em drain em and sew em up.
And was I right to be very angry? Either they should educate themselves more or they were lying straight to my face!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know if it is against the rules but one would hope that morally they wouldn't bring CL positive goats to a show. However, I can guarantee you that CL is at the shows. I think it was terrible of them to invite you and your goat over if they have CL in their herd. 

By the way, CL is not genetic. They have it in their dirt, they have it on all their goat items. That pus just spreads it over their property. It is a disease that other goats can get.


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## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I don't know if it is against the rules but one would hope that morally they wouldn't bring CL positive goats to a show. However, I can guarantee you that CL is at the shows. I think it was terrible of them to invite you and your goat over if they have CL in their herd.
> 
> By the way, CL is not genetic. They have it in their dirt, they have it on all their goat items. That pus just spreads it over their property. It is a disease that other goats can get.


Yes I feel like everyone knows how cl works and that they were lying to me when they said that. Now I assume if you have a cl positive doe she could pass it to her babies? But that's not genetic!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I hope you cleaned up real good before touching your goat! and cleaned your shoes etc that would be so sad to have your goat get it from such an experience

Either they would taught wrong themselves and stayed ignorant to how CL truly works or they lied to you. Either way is wrong in my opinion.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

At our 4-H shows any goat with noticable abcesses is disqualified and has to leave the property immeidatley. Its also not cool to knowingly have CL and think its ok... We had a wether with it our first year. Needless to say he was gone as soon as I figured out what it was. 

I would be sure to clean up everything that came in contact with their barn... Clothes, shoes, yourself and anything else. Not sure if lysol/bleach or other cleaners would help but I know it would make me feel better.


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## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes we scrubbed him down and ourselves for that matter befor he went back into our pen.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You were right to get out of there...Did you say you brought your goat with you to be trained? I would wash him/her too..his hooves especially..then disinfect them...Im sorry she wasn't upfront with you...and if she is that ignorant about CL then that too is sad...so much info out there about it..Might want to look up a good article on CL and copy it for her.


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## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes well this was probably 6 months ago. If he had caught it would I probably know it by now?


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## IrishRoots (Jan 7, 2013)

You may want to get him tested if your worries about it! What a horrible thing to go through!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow that's crazy! I'm so sorry you had to have this experience  
Last year about this time we went to see some young does. The animals were okay, but then they took us over to see the bucks. We went into the buck pen, and one of the bucks had a HUGE abscess on his face/neck area and the woman did say it was CL! She said they clean them before they rupture on their own, so it doesn't spread, etc. But I am like GET ME OUT OF HERE! We tried to be as friendly as we could but the moment we saw that, we definitely weren't buying an animal from that property.
We cleaned up best we could and nobody was allowed to wear their shoes in the goat pen <we bleached them & used disinfectant spray, etc.>.
But basically it was made to be 'not a big deal and normal.'


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

If I was you, I would contact your extension agent. No it is not scrapies, but they need to be made aware of this and they should NOT be allowed to show.

 When we go to any show, we have to have a health check. Every goat should be checked, and felt really good for anything unusual. The vets around here feel them so well and so long it is almost crazy but I totally understand and I am thank full for it. 

 One newer vet felt one of my girls "arm pits", he went and got another vet to check things out. It was a CD&T lump. They knew it was but still wanted to be safe and did a CL test. All was fine and mine have always been just fine, thank the lord.

 Since that check, I have started doing the CD&T shot 1CC under each arm pit so there is not as much of a chance of a lump forming. No since of stressing anyone out for nothing. Also the Colorado Serum is the best for not leaving the lumps. 

 I am so glad you got the heck out of there. Very wise move. I know people that put on those disposable booties over their shoes when they go in someone else's place.


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## PiccoloGoat (Sep 10, 2008)

Wow that is really worrying! It makes you wonder if all these people with the wrong idea about the disease are the reason it spreads! Somebody needs to educate them asap :/


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How awful....sorry you had to worry like that


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I think what would be most worrying in this situation is the fact if they are inviting other people to their farm to help the kids. 
Here, you have to have a health paper in order to show as well. 
Now, those goats may not have any lumps, or any signs of CL at the time of health papers.
But at the shows health papers are checked as well. A vet will initial the health paper at each show. They will look the goats over, and if they notice anything they will get a closer look or a 2nd opinion.
My son has a doe that had injured her knee, it wasn't hurting/painful at all but it was swollen, so he had another vet come and get a 2nd opinion. Since it was swollen, but not painful, bleeding, going to rupture, etc. she was allowed to stay and they didn't have a problem with it.

After all the reading, I do know CL is only contageous on the animal if it has an open, oozing abscess. So those goats who have CL, but no lumps coming to a show may have no signs of it, therefore wouldn't be disqualified just because someone says they have CL 
At a lot of the shows we went too, the goats were washed, clipped & clean before they come and/or washed again when they get there>, so when they go into the ring, I do think the chances of spreading it are very low at the shows depending on the way the grounds are set up. We always wash our goats at home, not in the shared wash area at the shows. Also try not to allow our animals to mingle with others, touch others through the pens.


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## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

HoosierShadow said:


> I think what would be most worrying in this situation is the fact if they are inviting other people to their farm to help the kids.
> Here, you have to have a health paper in order to show as well.
> Now, those goats may not have any lumps, or any signs of CL at the time of health papers.
> But at the shows health papers are checked as well. A vet will initial the health paper at each show. They will look the goats over, and if they notice anything they will get a closer look or a 2nd opinion.
> ...


I've not seen any vets or health checks at any shows around here at all  I thought about calling the county 4-h lady and asking if there are rules in place against it but I don't want to snitch. I think it wouldn't bother me as much but they are kinda crappy humans in general (physically abusive to animals, didn't see one water pail that wasn't green stagnate water) but they have the kids in 4-h and I hate for the kids(human) to miss out since it can be so beneficial.


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## IrishRoots (Jan 7, 2013)

Well I would hate to see other kids be hurt and disappointed when they come home from a show and their once healthy goats have caught CL. I would tattle lol


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

okiemama said:


> Yes well this was probably 6 months ago. If he had caught it would I probably know it by now?


Sometimes it can take years for a goat to show signs. They also will sometimes get abscesses on the inside an they burst an the goat coughs it spreads it that way also. The abscesses you cant see are the biggest worry IMO. No way would I go back though.... Cl can stay in the ground for years an anything that is wood.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is horrible.


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

CL is a pain because you can't get rid of it. I would have no problems asking to have any animals inspected when brought to a show. It is a common practice here to keep your goats in the rig until they have had a quick health check for lumps and bumps. Unfortunately, there are several Boer breeders that don't care because their goats are for meat and will be butchered. It doesn't stop the spread of it though.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It is not tattling if it is a serious problem that you are reporting. Unfortunately, in this day of many health risks, we have to be vigilant and 
report serious things to the proper authorities. _(You don't know how much I hate saying that, I think there is enough government interference as it is!)_ If you do know for a fact that they have CL, it would be a good idea to report it, or at least let your fellow 4-H'ers know so they don't take their goats over and possibly get infected.

If those people do take their animals to fair, maybe they can be put off in a corner with an empty pen between them and the next goats. If the
4-H Extension Agent is aware of the problems, they may be able to help with prevention of the spread of CL.


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## okiemama (Feb 14, 2013)

Goats Rock said:


> It is not tattling if it is a serious problem that you are reporting. Unfortunately, in this day of many health risks, we have to be vigilant and
> report serious things to the proper authorities. (You don't know how much I hate saying that, I think there is enough government interference as it is!) If you do know for a fact that they have CL, it would be a good idea to report it, or at least let your fellow 4-H'ers know so they don't take their goats over and possibly get infected.
> 
> If those people do take their animals to fair, maybe they can be put off in a corner with an empty pen between them and the next goats. If the
> 4-H Extension Agent is aware of the problems, they may be able to help with prevention of the spread of CL.


The problem is a lot of the other 4-hers get their goats from them. I'm good friends with his sister and even she doesn't buy goats from him because of this


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but maybe education would help?

I would say you know CL cause problems and x y and z can happen as a result. You may want to look into it

Just my thinking but again, haven't read the whole thread so maybe that has been mentioned already


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

I sure wish people would take this CL more seriously. There seems to be more and more infected with this disease and I feel it is nearly epidemic now in some places. I have even heard some say... "All goats will eventually get it if they live on your property long enough." So many false assumptions out there about this disease. It is a bacteria that is in the soil for years and years! When you buy a property ... for your goats.. if they (your goats)are disease free animals and you put them into property that had CL within 10 years even.. : your goats can become infected. THAT is a Terrible bacteria to not disappear quickly ... it just waits like a evil monster to infect. Now because so many goats are spreading this disease into the soil.. property all over the country is becoming infected so this will now continue on to the next goats. It is even something to consider now when buying property.


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

It is definitely not tattling. I am paranoid about my kid's goats because they slaved and saved their money to buy the best genetics they could afford. We have both dairy and meat goats. My kids would be devastated if they came home with CL both emotionally and financially. We would have to euthanize the dairy goats for sure, and I would auction house the Boers if it happens. I test religiously every year and it isn't cheap, so I would be quite upset if someone shared their disease with our herd. I demand the same pens every year and I put up dividers or tarps between my goats and all the others because I don't want to come home with something. The past two years, my daughter has done her speech on diseases in goats and we have put up signs all over our part of the barn and hand sanitizer for everyone that goes through.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

We have all sorts of goat seminars here in our area and education on the goat disease is out there but to the average brush goat owner that just wants a backyard goat..... They just don't know or think of it as something serious at all but mostly they just don't know anything at all about CL and those who have heard of it have been given false information on it it seems... The average back yard goat owners close to our area are not the type to go to a goat seminar or go to goat spot here to learn so the advice from most on goat spot to goat owners here would be this: Don't buy animals from unclean herds, and resist the temptation to bring home a rescue goat to your farm that you bought really cheap off of Craig's list or from the auction. Buy only from clean herds or tested herds.


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