# Mud mud and more mud. What to do?



## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

We have so much mud! So much rain and goats trampling down paths = mud. What surrounds our barn is mud and then there is a path of mud to the gate. Recently, the only thing to do has been to put pine shavings down when it rains so it doesn’t turn into a mudslide! (I know, right?) this gets super expensive and wasteful and I’m also concerned about it affecting the PH of our soil (acidic soil can lead to more snails which means more worms). Overall, I just need some ideas on what I can put down on some of these paths where there is a lot of mud. I would love to be able to have grass there but I don’t see it as much of a possibility. I’m honestly considering putting some more paving tiles down and giving them a cement walkway. But this is a major hassle as they weigh a ton, and we are sure to never have grass there again! Stone dust is a possibility but we can’t get it professionally put down so we can toss some bags of it down and stomp it as best we can, but it won’t last for too long. I could put sand down, but that seems like it would get pretty yuck and I don’t know if goats can be on sand. Please help! It’s becoming a safety hazard for both humans and goats... it’s like a slip n’ slide!! Thank you!!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I empathize. My husband just had to pull apart our rotting deck to make a temporary parking (barge?) to keep our car from sinking into the mud. In the past we have done the shavings and straw and stepping stones and 2X4 walkways. Anything to keep us and the livestock above the mud.
Sorry I do not have any helpful advice. Best of luck to you.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Any chance you can get your hands on free wood pallets and make an temporary elevated walkway in the worst areas? If you can't get solid surface pallets, remove slats from one pallet to make a solid surface on another. 

I hate adding wood chips, hay, or shavings to any muddy area as it ultimately just is more organic materials to make MORE mud and more cleanup later. 

If you do choose to spend money on stone dust, buy a roll of geotextile fabric too and spend the time to strip the topsoil before placing the fabric then stone dust.


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## KST Goat Farm (Jul 29, 2019)

I would of bunch of pallets on the ground.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh let me tell you I totally understand! OMG it's been so bad. We were supposed to fix our problems months ago and couldn't get my husband motivated you know... when we were in a 39 day drought and conditions were great for working on the issues. We have drainage issues because of unlevel ground, and a creek that runs through the middle of our small place (2-2+ acres that are long/narrow)

It's hard to know what you should do given we don't know the lay of your land. Any drainage issues or just busy walkway issues?
Maybe look into laying large stepping stones and make walkways for the heavy traffic areas? You can get the large square stepping stones at hardware stores - Lowes, Home Depot, etc. They work really well unless you have really deep mud that they would just sink in. Or find something you can put under to keep them from sinking in.

We just installed #2 gravel around our barn, doe shelter, and plan on doing the rest of the back of the barn, and out in the grassy area where we're having drainage/mud issues - need to finish making drainage ditches before we fill in with gravel. But I will say so far, I am thankful for the gravel. After 3"+ of rain yesterday, I couldn't imagine trying to get to the barn and gate in the mud. We have a long way to go, but it'll get there! 

Good Luck!


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

build a bridge of 6 inch and larger logs or posts (the bigger the better) over the mud. goats love to walk on the logs they will not walk in the mud


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

We had that problem here in the fall. I did the pallets, until I could get a couple of yards of 1/4 inch limestone gravel to fill in the low areas. It kept their feet dry and also works well for cleaning up poops (when it’s not raining). The leftovers make a little hill to run up on.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ugh it’s terrible here this year too. It’s going to be a long winter. I’m going to do the stepping stones. I have a bunch of dead trees so just going to cut a bunch of rounds maybe 6” long and at least make some paths to and from the major areas, feeders. I thought about gravel or asphalt grindings (there’s a bunch free here right now) but I’m not sure how that would work out with raking poop.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

We are dealing with the same thing here. It's terrible! 

A few weeks ago I placed an order for 18 tons of chapel hill grit (like crush' n run) and have been moving it by hand into the muddy areas. It's work, but worth it. I've so far moved 1/3 to 1/2 the of it into the goat areas. It is so worth it! It packs down like concrete overtime and can be swept and raked. Old hay sits on top and can be shoveled. I actually gently pressure washed one of the paths today (I had gotten behind on sweeping- it rained so at that point it was fast for me to do) 

It has made a huge difference. Goats are coming up for milking with clean udders, I can give them grain without having to walk through ankle deep mud and the goats love to hang out on it.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

@NigerianDwarfOwner707

Here's a pic of one of the path's I just put down. The mud was horrible! This is a high traffic path, it just tears the ground up. Even this little strip is making a huge difference!

ETA- please excuse the mess. The panels were to keep the goats away while I moved the grit.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> @NigerianDwarfOwner707
> 
> Here's a pic of one of the path's I just put down. The mud was horrible! This is a high traffic path, it just tears the ground up. Even this little strip is making a huge difference!
> View attachment 167453


Come build my arks when you are done with yours? Lol! Looks great!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Wow..thats a neat idea. Would it help keep the hooves filed also? Is it rough texture?


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

We use stall mats in some areas coming in and out of the barn. I’ve also seen 2x10 boards used to create a temporary walkway and the goats like walking on the boards.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Wow..thats a neat idea. Would it help keep the hooves filed also? Is it rough texture?


Once packed it is like concrete. I haven't noticed it helping keep the hoof growth down, but the hooves are healthier because they aren't walking through mud.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Once packed it is like concrete. I haven't noticed it helping keep the hoof growth down, but the hooves are healthier because they aren't walking through mud.


Hi Goat Whisperer...
Your path looks great!! I've never heard of "crush-and-run"...where do you get it and...is it as expensive as gravel..?

Our place is one giant puddle/swamp right now and I'd love to have some dry areas and paths.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

HMNS said:


> Hi Goat Whisperer...
> Your path looks great!! I've never heard of "crush-and-run"...where do you get it and...is it as expensive as gravel..?
> 
> Our place is one giant puddle/swamp right now and I'd love to have some dry areas and paths.


I buy from a local farm/fertilizer/ landscaping business, but you can research rock quarries in you area and see if they have anything suitable. Many horse farms use some time of fine gravel/grit in their stalls and high traffic areas. I'd ask around and see if they have any recommendations, chances are they do.

This last load was $267 for an entire dump truck load, delivery included (they are so close the delivery fee is minimal). Two years ago I paid $130/load but the price has gone up. Either way, it's worth the money!

Also, if you check FB market place and Craigslist you might be able to find businesses advertising rock or gravel. If they don't have what you want, they'll probably know someone who does.


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## KirDay (Nov 10, 2018)

We get get free chip from a local tree guy. As other stated ultimately that just gives you more work once it decomposes. Creating a hard surface is the only option at ground level. As other stated using flat sided pallets for raised walkways (or logs) is helpful. 

In their shelter I put down flat sided pallets with scrap linoleum on top, that way at least their shelter has a hard non porous surface that that can be easily cleaned.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

What is the crush and run made from?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I can try and get some pics of our situation. But it’s both a mix of poor drainage and walking paths. Drainage issues getting fixed this spring, that’s our project! For now, I just gotta fix the muddy areas. Pallets won’t work. Stepping stones I’m considering. Logs, no. My goats are sissies and won’t like the texture of that.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> What is the crush and run made from?


 Kinda like gravel dirt almosst but still with pebbles too. It is a fine grain gravel but not pea gravel. It settles well and makes a nice hard pack as a base for bigger gravel. We have a long drive and use it in the wash places to keep larger gravel in.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

A generic internet pic of it.



NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I can try and get some pics of our situation. But it's both a mix of poor drainage and walking paths. Drainage issues getting fixed this spring, that's our project! For now, I just gotta fix the muddy areas. Pallets won't work. Stepping stones I'm considering. Logs, no. My goats are sissies and won't like the texture of that.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Yep, just very fine rock/gravel. The stuff I use is a bit finer than the pic above.  

It’s been the best mud solution I’ve found.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't have pics yet of our progress so far dealing with mud. But we got a load of #2 which is in the pic below, we put this in front of the barn, between it and the cattle panel shelter, around the cattle panel shelter and was able to get part of the back of the barn done before we ran out









Class I Sand. very small pelleted rock - my husband said this is what they use at the horse farms in the muddy areas. Downfall, it needs replaced more often in traffic areas. We put 1/2 of this in the buck shelter behind the barn, very thick, and I believe we'll be putting the rest in their pen which is now nothing but a muddy mess.









We're getting ready to add on to the front of the barn, and give it a 'facelift' haha... I wanted to tear down the cattle panel shelter and get it replaced, but I think with adding on to the barn, we'll just redo the cattle panel shelter at some point. I can't wait to get this place up to par.

The only struggle we will face now is getting a path to the bridge back beyond the barn/pens so that we can take the wheel barrow across the creek to spread muck, or so the goats can get back there to browse/exercise. It's super muddy by the bridge, lower area and tends to flood with a lot of rain, so gravel is out. I am liking the pallet idea or making a walkway off the ground! We need to build a new bridge as well, weather has really destroyed it too


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

We’re just gonna go with stone dust and it may not last too long but that’s better than nothing.


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I have a bad drainage probably as well. I'm at the base of a large hill and all the water run-off comes right down behind my house and barns. I have a curtain drain around my house but my barns don't. After I get my tax return I'm planning to extend the curtain drain line from the house down to the culvert (the water runs in front of the barn now), and I'm going to put another curtain drain type thing around the barn to drain the high traffic areas and then put small stone or sand in the heavily trafficked areas. I've been dealing with so much good to this year (my first year at this property) and it's driving me crazy.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

If you get something with larger gravel pieces and some fines it will pack together well. Crush n run (here they say "crusher run") is like a cheaper version of 304 crushed limestone. We use it and love it. We also get "screenings" from the quarry which is finer gravel that packs down awesome. And if nothing else we put down wood chips (not shavings, more like chunks of bark) from the sawmill.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We got swamped this time last year with record seasonal rain fall, and what used to be nice, turned into a horrible, embarrassing mess. The large rocks just sunk, it was awful. I was so stressed out because of it.


















We had this happen in 2015, around 5" fell in 2 hours! It was insane. Since then, the ground and way water flows and sits changed, then add in all the wear from walking/raking/cleaning around the barn and shelter and that's just a brunt of sitting water/drainage issues.


















Front of the barn back then - we added onto the front of the cattle panel shelter and moved the gates sometime after this. Thankfully no water got in the barn or the cattle panel shelter! A little bit in the barn aisle, we were very lucky. Our creek seldom floods up here, maybe 3 or 4 times since we moved here in 2007 and only 1x other time where it threatened the barn area)









Creek backed up at the bridge under the road, and caused it to stop up and flood over the roadway


















This is what the front of the barn looks like since we installed the gravel. We've had a lot of rain and so far so good! Just trying to clean the hay that gets dropped is the only thing we need to figure out









I don't have a pic to show everything, but we put gravel here, and around the side of the cattle panel shelter, and behind the barn a little bit (ran out and need to get more). 
The class I sand, we put in the buck shelter thickly layered which has been great, and started putting the rest on top of this gravel in the walkway areas in front of the cattle panel shelter and a little bit in front of the barn so it's easier for the does to walk on.

I wish we had done this sooner! It has made life so much easier! No mud! But now we need to make gravel walkway to the front pen, and I want to address the area next to the cattle panel - standing water/swampy area, we'll be layer it with gravel too.

So if you have a really muddy area, you might consider using large gravel first, then packing it down with the smaller stuff so your smaller gravel lasts longer. If we had not done it this way...and only gone with the class I sand, I doubt we'd have gotten as much coverage, and it would seep into the mud that we had been dealing with meaning we'd have to replenish it sooner and keep layering.


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## friesian49 (Jul 2, 2018)

I pulled up a sidewalk to nowhere that was in the front of the house when I bought it and have been putting the pavers in the field, by the gate and by their feeders. They are 12x12, I think, and I'm going to try and create a bit of a walk way for them. As others have said, it's been pretty much non-stop rain for the last week. I get in the house and think, what is that way up on my leg and it's mud! Guh.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2018)

Glad this is working for you! Looks great! We are fighting the mud badly here in NC. It's depressing  It's nice to have others who understand! 
I've been able to move roughly 1/3 of the load I ordered, can't be in place soon enough!


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

We have mud bad right now. The girls refuse to come out of the shelter to milk because it requires then stepping into standing water/mud. Sunday I planned to put pavers down or build them a pallet walkway. It's just from the constant trampling around the gate and water areas. One day I'd love rock down.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I feel for you guys and totally understand! it's hard to get the goats away from the shelter/barn because it's so wet and muddy  They need exercise though. We got a break this evening, but just looking there is another patch of rain just west of us. I want to say rain turning to snow showers tomorrow. Yuck.

I couldn't get a good picture of the buck pen as it was dark and raining at feeding time, but I am loving the Class I sand in their shelter! We'll make a walkway from the gate to their shelter as soon as we get a chance. Poor guys couldn't even get to their water buckets without the mud, so we moved one of them inside for tonight. We still need to finish this shelter - need pallets so we can pull boards, then get this one finished up.



















I'm so over the mud! Ugh. At least they have a huge shelter with space to move around. I want to make their pen bigger like it used to be, but one of the bucks tears up the wire fencing with his horns, so I can't do much until I can get more fence panels. But probably won't do that until closer to spring. They normally have a fairly big pen.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> We are dealing with the same thing here. It's terrible!
> 
> A few weeks ago I placed an order for 18 tons of chapel hill grit (like crush' n run) and have been moving it by hand into the muddy areas. It's work, but worth it. I've so far moved 1/3 to 1/2 the of it into the goat areas. It is so worth it! It packs down like concrete overtime and can be swept and raked. Old hay sits on top and can be shoveled. I actually gently pressure washed one of the paths today (I had gotten behind on sweeping- it rained so at that point it was fast for me to do)
> 
> It has made a huge difference. Goats are coming up for milking with clean udders, I can give them grain without having to walk through ankle deep mud and the goats love to hang out on it.


So, I am wondering about this crush 'n run product. What makes it pack like concrete? Is it plaster dust that's added to it? My girlfriend is wondering if it's safe for the animals. Thanks


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I wonder if crush n run is about the same as Class I Sand? If so it's very safe, and tiny pieces of gravel and dust. We love the Class I sand. We're getting ready to tear out a hideous cattle panel shelter and pull up the ground, put down 2" gravel like in previous posts and put the Class I sand over it. Same in the barn. But probably won't be able to do it until later this month or when my husband takes a vacation.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

It's basically gravel with fines in it. It all packs together when it gets wet and becomes like road base or concrete. It's safe for animals, but I wouldn't put them on it without wetting and packing it as its dusty. 


MadHouse said:


> So, I am wondering about this crush 'n run product. What makes it pack like concrete? Is it plaster dust that's added to it? My girlfriend is wondering if it's safe for the animals. Thanks


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