# Advice needed. Warning--gross picture!!



## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

On Monday I noticed that my doe (who had the dead kid that we pulled on July 6) had a crack beside her anus, down and around the vulva and up the other side. Yesterday the tissue broke open and started to fall away. These pictures are from Monday and today. The vet will finally come at 5:00 today. He has been busy with more urgent emergencies. Anyone have any ideas on this healing and being normal to ease my mind before he gets here?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Glad you have the vet on the way. It is very difficult to tell what is going on from those photos. It almost just looks like just some messy post kidding discharge - but you are saying there is an actual wound?

What I would do: take her rectal temperature to see if she is running a fever that would indicated infection, flush the wound with very dilute iodine or betadine, inject a dose of B-Complex.

Is she pooping and peeing normally? Eating okay?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh wow..poor mama..so glad your vet is coming out to see her.. whats her temp..is she eating and drinking well..pooping berries and peeing?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

She doesn't seem to have fever at all. Eating and drinking as well as she has been through all of this. Urinating normally, but scouring this morning. I think that she ate too much alfalfa hay yesterday. I gave probios, B complex, and a crushed vit. c tablet this morning. I have been rinsing it twice a day since Monday. In person, it looks like the tissue is just falling away from her body.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

Don't know why it would have died, but that sure looks like dead flesh sloughing off...poor girl, hope your vet can get her sorted out.

She's gonna need some heavy duty antibiotics and lots of time. Sending healing energies to you both!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow I have never seen anything like this!! I'm interested to know what happened. But I don't see why with proper cleaning and care why it wouldn't heal and she be just fine, so stop freaking


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

jschies said:


> She doesn't seem to have fever at all..


Do you know what her actual temp is? I would be watching her temp very closely to help know about infection and how serious this is.

please let us know what the vet says.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Thank you Jessica!! But, my stomach is in knots when I think about it. The vet should be here by 5:00. I'll get a temp on her then and I will let everyone know what he says.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I know, my tummy did a little clinch just looking at a picture. But I've seen worse......just not in such a tender spot


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

The vet says that she is just fine. The crack was caused by all the trauma of pulling that kid. He wants me to wash it off with the hose once or twice a day for awhile, and says the crack will gradually get smaller and disappear. I asked him if he is absolutely sure about that and he said he is!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yay!!!! If me I would still put something on it between washing to help it heal a little faster. But so happy she's ok   (told you not to freak  )


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I asked if I could spray Vetericyn on it each time I hose it down. He said that would be okay but not necessary. I think I will go ahead and spray it!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

so glad its not as bad as it looks : )


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## DonnaBelle66 (Mar 4, 2013)

Just wondering, did he give her any antibiotics?

DonnaBelle


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## eqstrnathlete (Mar 16, 2013)

If it were my goat I would cleanse with warm soapy water, then vetericyn.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

No, he did not give any antibiotics. He acted like it was all expected and not a big deal. She is acting mostly okay except that she is scouring now. I checked a fecal Monday night and she had worm eggs (I think black scour worms). So I wormed her. Today she was still scouring (it has been off and on), so I decided to give pepto bismol, probios, and some B12. Tonight she has pellets that are stuck together. I am spraying with Vetericyn after washing. It sure is hard to be patient while they are healing!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she is in good hands :clap:


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Update...Little Debbie is slowly feeling more normal. Yesterday she almost ran to get oak leaves from me. She had diarrhea mixed with formed berries on and off until yesterday. I gave her two doses of Neomycin and that finally got it, I hope. And her back end is looking more like it might heal.... The picture is tonight after the "water treatment."


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I think that the dark stuff is kind of like a scab (not diarrhea). Some of it has come off and there is pink skin under it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Still looks pretty rough. Hopefully she fully heals for you.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I know...it looks terrible. That's why I posted the picture--for future reference if anyone else ever has this problem. In person, it looks a little better than the picture. I will post more updates as it heals.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is the pink new skin or is it raw? I admit it does look rough but all that dead needs to come off :/


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm not sure, Jessica. Nothing seems to hurt back there. It seems like the water is working. The only skin that probably should come off right now is that long string of stuff. I think I'll cut that off in the morning.


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## eqstrnathlete (Mar 16, 2013)

Gosh. To me it looks like it could be debrided and sewn.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Does it smell, that looks angry and just hosing it off isn't going to protect her. 
That is a big open wound and I would at least spray Vetericyn on it daily after rinsing it or blue spray on it. Make sure the flies stay off of it.

If it were me, I would clean all the scabs off of it to fresh skin, if it didn't wash off by spraying it in the beginning, it may have bad scabs there, with puss under it or it may not, I am not there to look at it. 
With the first pic and after rinsing it off doesn't seem to of cleaned it well enough to me. It looked really infected by the 1st pic.

Antibiotics is smart to do.

Has she had her CD& T recently?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

It doesn't smell bad at all. There really isn't any puss or abcessed looking areas, and no diarrhea anymore, thank goodness. The scabbed looking parts are slowly falling off with the water. The vet said that it is all superficial. She is up to date on shots, had two different antibiotics after the birth. I am spraying Vetericyn on it after each hosing (twice a day). I am spraying it with some force for several minutes. The vet had told me that we want to see pink skin. Suprisingly, yesterday and today when I rinsed it seemed a little smaller....just like the vet said! He said that it will just fill back in, and I have seen that happen before while working at a vet's office. Although nothing quite like this. I guess the trauma of pulling the kid caused some tissue to die??


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow this sure as heck is not normal after pulling a kid, even a dead one. Any chance you could take her to a different vet? I'm not sure how much of a relationship you have with the current vet but that is a pretty gaping wound. Maybe a vet teaching school if you have one nearby? 

At least the pink flesh that is showing looks healthy but there are lots of pockets etc. for infection. 

So sorry that you are her are going through this after having a dead kid pulled - not a fun experience.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I really don't think that there is anything else to do to it. You certainly couldn't stitch it. It is not like a "normal wound," more like a burn or scrape. Her skin was just swollen for the first 2 weeks. Then a crack appeared. Then it broke open and just began to droop down. I do trust my vet, and he has been out here twice in the past few weeks to see her. He is a country vet though and doesn't do procedures unless they really need to be done.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with you. Keep doing what your doing. It looks bad but if that's new skin under there and not kinda ozzy ouchy (don't know how to explain it lol) then it's doing what it needs to do. The only thing I was going to suggest is if is more like a sore under there then new skin maybe put some flour or corn starch to help dry it and get it healing but if it's not sore then I would say it's new skin. 
I'm not sure about the area on this idea but raw honey does wonders, only thing is it's sticky so you might have some poop stick to it. When my doe tore her vagina when I pulled her kids I thought she needed stitches but she didn't and the vet said if you feel the need to put something on it use the raw honey. I personally passed because I didn't want to cause her more pain by having to pull and was berries off her lol


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Well, we took one step back yesterday. The goat stopped eating feed and alfalfa hay, and seemed like she had an "I don't care about anything" attitude. She is still grazing. She also had dead skin just hanging, which my husband kept telling me to leave alone. Her temp at 8:30 p.m. was 103.9 so I gave her 8 ccs LA 200, B complex, and vit. c, and drenched her with some corn syrup and water. And....cut some of that skin off. 

Does 1cc per 20 pounds of LA 200 for five days sound right?
She seems a little perkier today. Is there anything else I should give her that I'm not thinking of, besides probios?


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I would be giving pain meds for pain and inflammation- Banamine. Like the above posters, I too feel that the scabby areas should be soaked off till all fresh skin is exposed. Otherwise, the skin underneath won't have a chance to heal properly, and will continue to ooze. Perhaps you could apply wet towels/ cloths on the area for a period of time prior to washing with water. This may soften the scabs so they come off when you wash- kind of like when you soak in a tub of water your scabs get soft and come off without bleeding so much....


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Whoa!!!! Omg. I am glad you got her on antibiotics. Cripes. For future reference, any time you have to pull a dead kid its a good idea to give them antibiotics, I thought it was just standard protocol with birthing actually. Super surprised that vet didnt catch on, but then again, I have seen a vet diagnose an obvious neurological problem in a horse(tumor in the vestibular region) for colic. Poor mama. 

I hope you are able to save her. Just a testament to how incredibly strong these amazing animals are. For the sake of your animals lives, I would find a new vet if I was you.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

She has already had two rounds of antibiotics, steriods, and banamine under vet care. She is now on round three. This is just trauma to the skin, not really infection. I think that the new problem may be a urinary tract infection. She is eating a little better again.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Isn't it cranberry juice for people for a UTI? Can goats have that too? But as for your question on the la200 yes that's the right dose.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks, Jessica. Her back end looks a lot better today. It may actually look normal again one day! Now we just need to get her feeling better. She is grazing more today.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You'll get her there. Your already doing a fantastic job with her!!!


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Any updates?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

...


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Sorry...I'm a teacher and had to go back to work today! The skin ended up falling off with some trimming. She is still really skinny, but working on that. I'll try to get a picture to post tomorrow. One thing that concerns me is that she squats a lot and sometimes it sounds like diarrhea noises, but with urine??


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

*Update*

Here are the pictures. The picture makes it look like more skin is cracking, but it isn't. The white is her vulva which now seems to be a little crooked! She did have some pus on it this afternoon. I guess I should still be rinsing her daily. Can you tell Debbie was a little irritated with me tonight?


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Seems like that should have been sewn up or something. :/


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I think I would retire her from breeding for sure. That still looks angry.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

It wasn't possible to sew it up because it was just dead skin sloughing off from the trauma. I haven't decided if she will be bred again or not. I am really amazed that she looks this good!


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## melbah1 (Jun 28, 2013)

So glad to see the healing that has happened. I hadn't seen anything like that before. She's a tough goat, poor girl.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Keep rinsing it and get that pus out of there. It looks a lot better now, but the pus isn't good.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

If shes still got pus coming out this late in the game after 3 rounds of ABX, I think its time for a uterine flush, maybe she retained a bit of placenta or something. Has she been ultra sounded to make sure there is not a dead kid in there?


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## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

It looks like the skin got stretched so much that the entire epidermis layer died.
Man, that had to hurt! Poor girl. 
It will be interesting to see how it ends up, and if the pigment ever comes back.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Audrey, I'm not sure if the pus came from inside or was on the outside. Yesterday was the first day that I noticed it and I just couldn't tell. I think that she did retain the placenta. She has had three rounds of antibiotics already. The vet has seen her twice since then and was sure that there were no more kids. 
Greybird, that must be exactly what happened. It was the weirdest thing I have ever seen. 
Toth Boer Goats, what medicine would you put on it now?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Keep rinsing and start flushing the pus wounds, get any pockets or holes, with infection, make a weak tea color iodine / water, then flush it daily, squeeze out any pus, we have to get it out of there. 
I personally doubt it was a uterine infection, it takes uterine flushes and antibiotics for really bad infections such as that and will get worse, being on antibiotics alone. It stinks really bad, you will know if it was infection in there, it can be smelled just standing near them. There is no mistake. I gather there was no bad smell back there? cause it was not mentioned. It seems like a deep surface infection and must be tackled with antibiotics and flushing/getting out all the pus. If the pus remains, it will not heal. Then I would spray blue spray on the area after.
Keep flies from getting to it, fly strike is bad. Any larvae seen there?


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

I did not see any pus tonight. I wonder if it was a collection of oozing fluids maybe?? I will keep rinsing and medicating.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure, wish I could see it in person, but you are our eyes.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Here's an update...The weird sloughing off of skin healed up, however she still isn't well. Her health has gone up and down since July 4. A week ago I asked my husband to call the vet and see what he thought we should do now because she had stopped eating and seemed to be in pain. She was squatting a lot and dripping a yellow fluid still. After all of the antibiotics and uterine flushes! He didn't do it. I decided that we absolutely wouldn't torture her with any more injections or flushes and started giving her 1 vit. c tablet, and probios mixed with honey each night. Then she got stuck in the rain. I dried her off and really thought that she would die that night. I gave her 2 vit. c tablets, probios, mixed with honey. She didn't die and is improving after three days! I am giving her one tablet in the morning and 2 at night with probios and honey. I am shocked at the improvement! Does anyone think that this might clear the uterus infection up?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't know but boy do I have to give you a pat on the back for being so dang strong and keeping at her! I am praying that she improves 100% for you and soon! Keep up the good work


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks, we're taking it one day at a time.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure either, but what ever works, keep it up. 

Glad she is OK, how scary.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Update: The uterus infection kept coming back. We decided not to torture her any more--fed her what she would eat what she would and watched. She got weaker and finally died two days ago. She never seemed to be in pain or we would have put her down. Thanks for all of the help and support through this! We have three daughters from her. Two are in with our new buck now.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm so sorry you lost her, you worked hard to turn her around, I hope her daughters produce well for you.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Ohhh. I'm so sorry you lost her! (((((Hugs)))))


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sorry you lost her...


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am totally shocked right now! I am so very sorry  and I agree you worked so dang hard on her and neither one of you deserved this ending. Again I'm so sorry but still give you major pats on your back for the time and energy you put into trying to save her


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks.. I'm hoping we never go through that again!


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