# Scrapie



## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

What is the USDA Scrapie Program ID. system? My 4-H manual says all goats must have a registration tattoo or official scrapie ear tag. The it says all market goats will be ear tagged.

I didnt think dairy goats needed ear tags and tag in was today,so I guess I will have to call and see,if so its to late,but I didnt want to get her ear tagged. The dairy goats didnt have them before . :?


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## heavenlyhaven (Apr 17, 2008)

PLEASE DO NOT TAG :angry: 
that is all part of the USDA's NAIS program!!!!!!
if you don't know about NAIS please PLEASE google it and learn all you can!!!!!!!!!
if your goats are reg and have tattoo's in their ears that should suffice

http://www.nonais.org/
The National Animal ID program was originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID's for large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will have to tag and track every single animal.

There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices&#8230; You!


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## goatiegurl*Oh (Nov 11, 2007)

I didnt have her tagged,I told my dad even if it was required I didnt want her being ear tagged so not to take her. No shes not registered but I want to have her registered if possible.


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## fcnubian (Oct 23, 2007)

I don't tag my goats.

My purebred nubians are registered so they have the tattoo.

And we called and asked if I could tattoo the pygmys instead of putting tags in them and they said yes. I have to tag them with the INCRNA## That is the scrapie tag numbers. From the way I understood it to get the scrapie tags you have to have the premise ID. That is required to show goats, atleast to the ADGA sanctioned open shows in Indiana. Some people quit showing because of having to get the premise ID. I went ahead and got it. I bought those goats to show and I will be showing them. On the health papers 2 yrs ago I had to have my INCRNA and the premise ID number on them.

Most of the time I just sell the pygmys with their tags. If their new owner wants them put in I'll do so only after they have payed and will be taking the goat because I will not get stuck with a tagged goat. Its hard to get tags off once they are on.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

every state is different. Washington (as of now) curerently lets us use our herd tattoos for the scrapie program. even animals not being registered have to be tattooed now. You ad a WA in front of the herd name tattoo, so now my whethers all get tattooed with WARYD. When we went to nationals a few years ago they checked scrapie paperwork.
beth


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## lilbird (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm new to all of this...and I live in Indiana...I did call BOAH and because of the Buffalo and Elk we apparently have had a premise Id number for a few years...Along with a cervid ID number...geeeessss we live in a numbered world....Now I'm getting a scrapie number...I had sold unregistered ND twins to a girlfriend for her kids to start in 4H...Both of us totally ignorant to what we were getting into!!!!..We did tag them per her request and now have found out we used the "wrong" tag...I think I have a clear understanding of tattooing a registered animal...which hopefully next year I'll have registered babies...but for now am I to understand that I can tattoo an unregistered goat with my scrapie number instead of tagging??? Would make it better on the goat that I have to "retag"...I hate tags...I have seen goats with damaged ears and infections etc I have just joined AGS and NDGA...and working on registering a herd name...which I suppose I could put that tattoo in the other ear...so one ear would have the scrapie number and the other would have my herd tattoo???? What do you all think????? Any ideas are welcome!!!! I wonder if I can use or change the scrapie number to what my herd id will be???
Thanks
Jill


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

The Scrapie rules are as follows.

IF you goat is *registered* and you have the *papers with you at all times*, and when you sell that goat those papers must follow. Or if they NEVER EVER leave your property, then and only then do they NOT have to have the ear tag.

If they are *NOT* registered then they HAVE to have the ear tag. *If *you take that goat to a show or anywhere *OFF your property* then they MUST have a ear tag. If they never leave your property and you NEVER plan on selling them or showing them then you will not have to do the tags.
If you are going to take them to a sale barn most of the sale barns will tag them before they are aloud to go into the sale. If you refuse to let them tag them then by law they are not aloud to let them go in the sale.

*PLEASE LET ME EXPLAIN THE SCRAPIE PROGRAM.*

The reason for them is: Let say you have goats on your property. All your goats are healthy and you have no problems at all. BUT a person that is in your county has a goat that died from scrapies, and non of the goats in your area is in the Scrapie program, then ALL the goats HAVE to be KILLED. The reason is there is NO way to prove where they got the goat, so to protect them all they have to be killed. SO for that reason alone I tag.

IF you sell a goat and that goat goat dies in the new owner hands but it had scrapies, then all the goats that person has will be destroyed and all the goats that you still have will be destroyed, but all the other goats in the county will be safe. 
I do not Like the da** government getting in my business anymore then the next guy, but I do not want my animals destroyed because I don't want to put a plastic tag in there ear.

I have been doing these for 8 years with the tags and I have NEVER EVER had one get ripped out or tear the ear. YES they have broke off and I have to replace them, but I keep PERFECT records to the tags and the ones that have been replaced.

If you look at it as a negative thing then it is, but I look at it as I know my goats are safe and I do not have to worry about the farm down the street that has HORRIBLE conditions, if her goats come down with Scrapies then my goats are SAFE.

 On another site the head person called me all kins of names because I do the tags. I explained that in order to show we have to have the tags. She said then do not show there. Well all the Cashmere shows are REQUIRED to enforce the LAW, so we would not be able to go anywhere. That is the whole reason we started in goats. It was not just to have them on the property but it was to show. She told me to get a back bone and not to bow down like I did. I told her that I was not doing anything wrong so why worry about the program. 
I have my scrapie tags and I have my Premises ID number. They do know that I have dogs, cats, horses and goats. SO WHAT!!!!
They would know that if they drove by also. They do not know how many goats we have, or how many we have sold. They do not ask that information.

Now when it comes down to the Animals ID where we have to tag the animals and tell them every time we leave or property and such, I will fight that tooth and nail. I will not ok the thought of them tracking my goats every walk and move. That is something totally different then the Scrapies and Premises ID. Matter of fact the winter of 07 during a storm that killed hundreds of animals because the farmers were so snowed in they could not get to them. Well because some people had registered for their Premises ID's the state went in and dropped hay to those farms because they new where the cattle were that needed help, so it does have good it it also.

I thing people need to know both sides of the program before they get all up in arms about it.


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

We do not tag but we do have tags and premis id number.
We have the tags just in case. I have 2 does I bought that have tags in their ears. I much preder tattooing.
They can't rip a hole in their ear with a tattoo and it's permanent. All my goats are registered though and they have to have some kind of identification. If I could afford it I would proboly microchip.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I have been reading alot on this issue and there are many people up in arms about this - and I understand their concerns. But I do feel that sweetgoats has a valid point that there are good and bad with this program just like any other. 

My only concern would be tracking every move when we want to go to shows or anything like that. I personally don't care for the tags and would prefer tattoos, however, some tattoos don't show up, aren't done right so they smear, or just really were never done. I think if the tags were smaller, it definately might help to ease the look.

I have actually thought about microchipping all of my goats, but then I run the problem of someone not knowing they have the microchip like dogs and cats always have (all my house animals are microchipped).

I kind of look at it like cattle and what not - they all have tags and I also would rather my goaties be safe from Euthanasia because of someone elses nastiness! Just my opinion.

Allison


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## all1965 (Oct 6, 2007)

If the goat has actually been tattooed, no matter how old it is, 99% of the time you can hold a flash light to the back of the ear and read it.
Useing green ink also helps the visibility in dark eared animals.


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## Tog Lovers (Oct 10, 2007)

OK. Just to make sure I understand this.

Our goats are registered with the ADGA and are Tattooed. So we do not need to get tags.
If we do get tags we do not have to actually tag them just keep the tags with the registration papers.

How do we get a premisis ID?


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## lilbird (Mar 30, 2008)

Ok I just got off the phone with BOAH...I'm not questioning the Scrapie Program...I sure dont want anything happening to my goaties or anyone else's for that matter...I was trying to find out if I can tatoo even an unregistered goat inplace of a tag...BOAH was very receptive and said they would even change my scrapie number to what my AGS and NDGA tatoo is...Just on the unregistered goats I would have to use IN before my registered tatoo ex: INXX for unregistered and XX for registered...
That way I comply with all numbers and my goaties are safe...
Thanks
Jill


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

great to hear that they are totally working with you! That is awesome. I should probobly find out about Idaho Law with scrapie - as I haven't been doing anything! (shhhh)

Thanks for the info update!

Allison


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

lilbird said:


> Ok I just got off the phone with BOAH...I'm not questioning the Scrapie Program...I sure dont want anything happening to my goaties or anyone else's for that matter...I was trying to find out if I can tatoo even an unregistered goat inplace of a tag...BOAH was very receptive and said they would even change my scrapie number to what my AGS and NDGA tatoo is...Just on the unregistered goats I would have to use IN before my registered tatoo ex: INXX for unregistered and XX for registered...
> That way I comply with all numbers and my goaties are safe...
> Thanks
> Jill


 You are very lucky. That is awesome and I wish they all would do that and be willing to work with people. i believe having a way to track is all that really matters.



Tog Lovers said:


> OK. Just to make sure I understand this.
> 
> Our goats are registered with the ADGA and are Tattooed. So we do not need to get tags.
> If we do get tags we do not have to actually tag them just keep the tags with the registration papers.
> ...


 I do not know how you would get yours. Try Googling Premisses ID (In your state).

According to the clinic I was at the Microchips will NOT work for the Scrapie tag numbers. I have friends that have unregistered Pyugmy goats and they have always told me that they do not have to have the Scrapie tags in the ears, and I explained that she was wrong. WEll finally she heard it from the horses mouth. She has to tag them. They are micro chipped but he said "SO, they are not registered, and have no papers so there for they HAVE to be tagged.

This guy said that he can show up at any show and he HAS to check the goats and sheep for the tattoos, or eat tags. If they do not have them then he has to put them in with his number and then they are recorded that way. He said all the state agents have to do this. He even said that it can get pretty scary because people flip out over this.


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## goathappy (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't have a scrapie ID because there have been rumors that if you get one they will sign you up for NAIS. In IL, you can have tattoos, but it is good to keep the tags on hand too. I really want to show, but in IL they made it a law that you have to have a premise ID, so I won't be showing now  The premise ID is for NAIS, not scrapie.

I do see a need for NAIS, but I don't think it should apply to small, hobby farmers. We have goats for pleasure, and we possibly sell products to a handful of people. Why should _we_ be tracked when the food that we grow doesn't get into the food chain where thousands of people eat it? If NAIS is for disease control, then it should be mandatory for those people who are raising food that goes into the main food chain, that is the food that needs the most watching. JMO.


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