# ABGA DNA'ing question



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am just curious... 
Can & How do you verify parentage of sire, if you no longer own them? They were both DNA tested through ABGA. My husband says they are one bucks kids, but I just want to be sure, because I am positive both bucks bred this doe 1x each. I wouldn't mind DNA testing one of them just so I know for sure.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

If the bucks are DNA tested, you should be able to send in hair from the kids for testing and they'll match it up


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## NWIndianaBoers (Mar 18, 2013)

From everything I've seen this is an area ABGA isn't very helpful with. You can't submit a dna sample to them or request one without registering that animal. So if you choose one buck to put on there thinking you can change it later if you realize you got it wrong you are risking getting in trouble with them for submitting papers that you knew had a 50/50 chance of being wrong. 
This is off of there site. - The goat you are verifying parentage of must have some form of an ABGA registration or listing paper number and then all you need is the goat’s parents’ registration numbers to verify the parentage of your goat. 

So in this situation it would seem you need to send samples of any kid that will be registered to UC Davis direct and get DNA samples done through them . Then compare those samples to your bucks results. After you verify which one is the sire you can register the kids. I say all kids you are registering because you could easily have a set of twins with two different sires if both bucks covered the doe while in heat.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks so much, I appreciate the info. I guess I forgot to mention that I'd be registering if I can do DNA/parentage of sire. I definitely wouldn't want to register a kid with a 'guess' of who the sire is.
I honestly had no intention of registering kids from this doe, my kids can show them in commercial youth classes. BUT, one of the doe kids is really nice looking and if she gets enough pigment and characteristics I think my daughter could show her in % classes, so I'd want her registered for that. I don't think the other 2 will have enough pigment/character for % classes.
Just trying to keep options open.

Plus, if & when we sell them, if buyer wanted papers, then I could do the DNA and get them registered. 

I thought I'd read somewhere on one of the buck DNA forms that you could confirm parentage. I'll try to call ABGA and get info. But sometimes I don't always get the right info over the phone....lol


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## NWIndianaBoers (Mar 18, 2013)

What you want to do makes perfect sense and would be very easy for them to do. Especially since you could just put both bucks down and let them tell you which one it was. However that isn't something they offer. I guess they don't want people to start doing stuff like that regularly and the guessing who the sire is is one big thing they are trying to get rid of so even though in this case it was an honest mistake and not something you intended to do I wouldn't expect them to he helpful in the situation.I believe a DNA test straight through UC Davis is $40. So thats what it would take for you to know for sure. Assuming you have both sires DNA information still from when the results were sent back to you.

You can confirm parentage. But that's only if the parents DNA is already in the system.

This is off of their page

Is there an extra fee for parent verification?

No. The ABGA included this service in our price of doing the DNA test.
Will I be told who the parents are?

No. The test will show how close they matched, or didn't match what you indicated on the form.
Can I request parent verification of my goat(s) if I don't own one of the parents?

Yes, but only if you verify parentage through ABGA, the parents are registered and have been DNA tested through ABGA.
The goat you are verifying parentage of must have some form of an ABGA registration or listing paper number and then all you need is the goat's parents' registration numbers to verify the parentage of your goat.
If the goat's parents have not been DNA tested, you would need to order DNA test sample kits on the parents as well as the goat at the same time. If you verify through UC Davis, and/or your goat's parents have not been DNA tested through ABGA, you must have the VGL Case ID number from their owner.

http://abga.org/2014/the-abga-dna-program-explained/


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I went through ABGA not US Davis. It's okay if they don't have papers, I won't get into an expensive, huge fuss. Both bucks were DNA tested before we sold them. If these were fancy, expensive show type goats maybe it would be a different story. 
I am even okay with possibly keeping one and breeding it as a commercial doe or having 50% kids from it. I like the idea of having commercial, % and FB/PB in our herd. Their dam is our only unregistered doe.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok I called ABGA and she told me to register the doe kid and use the buck we believe may be her sire. Then request a DNA test for parentage and if it doesn't match up they will change it and send her new papers. So, I may do this so my daughter can show this baby in % doe classes if that is what she chooses to do 

EDITED TO ADD: We do our buck DNA testing through ABGA, not directly through USDavis. I know that is the way to do it, but we don't keep a buck longer than 1 breeding season as we have limited space and just don't have a good enough set up to keep an adult buck on the place. 

I only am interested in registering one of these girls right now so my daughter has the option to show her in breeding classes.
Other 2 will be shown in commercial classes by weight. If/when we sell those 2 and buyer REALLY wants papers, we'll make sure they get DNA tested. But I am thinking they will most likely be sold as commercial. Although, my daughter wants to keep one of them, so we'll see what happens.


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