# Hind legs paralyzed in Boer kids



## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

Aloha,

We have 3 week old Boer twins that have been paralyzed in the hind legs since 8-12 hours after birth. The male went flat at 8 hours old and the female at 12 hours. They both appeared healthy until that point.

We have treated for:
Floppy Kid
Bacterial Infection
White Muscle


They are happy and healthy in every respect but the hind legs. They were given Bo-se 2 times. The male regained a little feeling in the hind legs the day after the first Bo-se shot, but not much and he still can't use them. The female remains the same.

The strangest part is that all along they have been able to feel their tails and move their tails. X-rays were done and it showed no spinal damage. 

They are eating fine and are able to walk with their front legs if their back is lifted.

Any insight would be amazing. The vet says to put them down but we really don't want to do that.

Mahalo,
Tiffany


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Do they have feeling in their legs? I think I would continue Bose since it made a difference in your little buck...I had a baby lamb with WMD who ran with a bunny hop...it took several treatments of BoSe and i gave an extra vit e gel cap..just poked a hole and squeeze in their mouth...massage the legs
I would also make them a leg brace to wear and help them get up on those back legs...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Copper deficiency in the dams would cause it. They most likely will never be able to walk again if that is what it is. The deficiency attacks the spinal cord paralyzing the hind legs first, working its way up.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I would continue with selenium, b complex and maybe some A+DE gel. They may come around, with diligence and nutrition. Hopefully it's not copper deficiency, that would stink


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How does the mom look? her health?


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

We thought about copper deficiency, but the vet says that take days to weeks for it to show and these two guys got it within hours of birth. Mom is completely fine. She didn't have a whole lot of milk, but she is healthy.

The strangest part is that their tails are fine. We were thinking that if it was spinal damage or something affecting their spines that since they are having the issue from the hips down that the tail would be affected, too. They wiggle their tails, lift them up and down and can feel them when poked.

Our vet is completely stumped as is the ruminants specialist at UC Davis.

Thank you all for your thoughts!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The copper deficiency would have been in mom through pregnancy. Mom could be copper deficient.


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

Are you giving the shot SQ or IM? I am no expert but we deal with selenium deficiency and we were told the shot has to be given IM in the leg at .5 cc we have never had to do it more than once though. We also give mom BoSe about 30 days before delivery.


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

The Bo-se was given IM. .5cc twice, 7 days apart. With the copper deficiency, isn't it degenerative? The buck is regaining some feeling, but not much.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

If the buck is improving, I would assume it's selenium deficiency and continue the Bose. Cod liver oil will also help them recover.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Are their legs "frogged" out like this? This is a kid I had last year, but he was born unable to stand. I was able to get him to stand and walk eventually, and he turned out to be the biggest buck I had that year.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If they were mine I would give 1/4 cc BoSe, a vit e gel cap and repeat in 3 days...watch for any improvement...if there seems to be I would give another Vit E gel cap in 3 days again...giving time for the BoSe to work...I would brace their legs in hopes they can use them with support and

I would do massage therapy 3-4 times a day with frankincense and or helichrysum Ess oil in a carrier oil...I would be sure to include frank down the spine...Peppermint can also stimulate the nerves...


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

Thank you for all the insight!

To answer the question about the frogged legs, yes they are exactly like that but in addition to being frogged they have no feeling in the hind legs. They do have feeling and movement of their tails though.

A new thing yesterday and today is that they are not pooping. The buck had a little mustard colored soft poop but it was the size of a small tootsie roll. They are still eating and peeing, though.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

So they have been unable to stand for 3 weeks? Did they stand at all at birth?


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

canyontrailgoats said:


> If the buck is improving, I would assume it's selenium deficiency and continue the Bose. Cod liver oil will also help them recover.


According to this link, b12 deficiency as well as copper deficiency can also cause this problem. Maybe you can run this by your vet for dosage information, or maybe you can check with the goat vet site online. I don't know the address, but I know others here have used it and can tell you.

I'm wondering if you can modify some kind of baby walker or something so that they can get around for now. Good luck.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would think.if the legs were paralyzed then so would be the bowels...?..


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

They were walking and running on all 4's at birth until 8 hours old for the buck and 12 hours old for the doeling. 

Their bowels are not paralyzed, they have been pooping and peeing all along, except for yesterday. Their tails also have feeling and are able to move them.


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

Has anyone had issues with Meningeal Worms? They seems to explain the symptoms of these little guys.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

No, but it would seem unlikely that they would have ingested the larvae. And the incubation period is days, not hours.

This article about meningeal worms also talks about vitamins used in treatment to repair nerve damage. Even if it's not worms, this might help them.

http://www.bagendsuris.com/?page_id=269

Here is a case where a kid was unable to use it's hind legs because of copper deficiency and recovered after being treated.

https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1994/copper.shtml


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

Thank you so much for those sites! 

We found some worms in one of their poop so they got treated tonight. Also the doeling is on antibiotics again because of a nasty dog bite to her mouth that made the left side of her jaw swollen and infected. 

Thank you so much to everyone that has offered help! 

Mahalo Nui Loa!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...MW would not be my guess...however, loosing use of legs at 8/12 hours old sounds like some kind of infection...what antibiotics were tried?

was blood work done? any poops today?


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

So far they have been given SQ and oral penicillin. No blood work has been done. Our vet thinks we are insane for keeping these guys alive. We just can't give up on them yet. They are so sweet and spunky! Every other part of their being is healthy with the exception of their hind legs.

If they couldn't move or feel their tails then we could say that there is definitely something wrong with their spines. Nothing makes any sense!

Thank you so much for caring enough to post ideas. Please continue to pray for these little cuties!


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## dian_na (Jan 31, 2015)

I'd get some training wheels and mount them on a 2x6 cut to fit under them, and leave them under there and see if their legs don't develope into being used, maybe even small lawn mower type wheels, If they're spunky in every way but that I would try it. It just seems odd at hours old they do this except they did it while they could and the weight was too much for their little frame, they look like big kids at least compared to mine. And you had one last year to do same, I think developing the muscles is a good place to go because it just makes sense to me, but I'm new and its the paramedic coming out in me.

Unless its naval il, the tx for it is pen v k q 4 hours for 5 days, but you had one last year do same thats the part that seems its a skeleton structure type thing.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Around here you can get mineral tests for not too much. Blood work for selenium is about $16 and a trace mineral panel that covers copper, iron, calcium , magnesium and I think zinc is also around $16. There is probably a state lab that can test for you.

It would be very helpful to be able to rule out problems with copper or selenium. Don't know, but it looks from other threads that Hawaii might be deficient in selenium, as are many areas. Vit. E helps with the selenium.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

glndg said:


> Here is a case where a kid was unable to use it's hind legs because of copper deficiency and recovered after being treated.
> 
> https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1994/copper.shtml


Great article from Purdue, glndg. Thanks for the link!

Best wishes to you and your babies, robntiff4!


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## caprinelivin (Mar 6, 2014)

They are so adorable, and you are right... they otherwise look so healthy. I really do not have anything to offer except my support and heartfelt wishes for you to have answers. This is something we can all learn from I am sure and for that, among other reasons, I thank you for including us on your journey  I do agree that making something for them to be in a more "natural" position--standing, walking, etc will only help them. 
Just food for thought, and I am not saying this is it, but because nerves are involved in paralysis, it is hard to say what would or would not be affected. Take carpal tunnel for instance; the same finger can be completely numb on one side and not at all on the other side of the same finger. Nerves are so intertwined and there are so many, the tail may not necessarily be affected...yet.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Bolusing with copper is considered fairly safe and it's inexpensive. I got Copasure in small capsules for goats on ebay. It is probably not the fastest way to get results, but it might work if the problem is related to a copper deficiency.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

Firstly, I want you to know how kind and sensitive I think you are to your babies. Hats off to you, and I will continue to wish for a discovery to your goats' case. To me, it sounds like a blood test will be valuable since that hasn't been done by your vet. (Btw, I don't think your vet's attitude is helping matters any.) If it is a copper deficiency, I'm wondering if a copper sulfate solution would prove the fastest form of delivery.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Here is a case where a kid was unable to use it's hind legs because of copper deficiency and recovered after being treated.
> 
> https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1994/copper.shtml


very good read....

They are very sweet looking babies...
I say treat with copper bolus...its 1 gram per 22# so you will need to figure out how much for them...it certainly wont hurt to try...


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

Does anyone think that Joint Ill/Navel Ill could be the culprit?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Does not sound like joint or naval ill....navel ill does not attack that fast..usually takes 3 weeks to show signs of infection, often the naval will be infected as well..there is always swelling of one or more joints....Joint ill can be caused from a goat battling an infection that has gone sepsis...


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

OK. We are just trying to rack or brains to figure what could be going on. 

I think we are going to try to raise money so we can get them some wheelchairs. Those little suckers are so expensive! 



Cathy, your profile picture is so precious!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh I understand...its good to think of everything and rule it out.....wheel chairs will be helpful...are they pooping now..no issues?



> Cathy, your profile picture is so precious!


thank you, that is my granddaughter...:grin:


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

FYI - blood tests are not considered to be very reliable for copper levels, they've been known to show excess when the goat is actually deficient. Liver sample is much more accurate, but difficult/expensive to do biopsy on live animals.


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

They are pooping a little, 2 maybe 3 times a day. Each time it has been a 1.5 semi hard yellowish poop.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> FYI - blood tests are not considered to be very reliable for copper levels, they've been known to show excess when the goat is actually deficient. Liver sample is much more accurate, but difficult/expensive to do biopsy on live animals.


That's good to know. I knew they weren't as accurate, but didn't know they could be so far off. So it's back to symptoms.....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad they are pooping...have you been able to find copper?..I get the once for cows and break the capsules down but they sell for goats as well..but fir these little.ones you will need to break a goat size down too. The rods in the capsule look like broken pencil lead....it wont hurt to try and see if it helps


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I just found this in the Dairy Goat Journal.

"A major key to diagnosing copper deficiencies or toxicities requires knowing what the rest of the diet consists of. A goat owner may be blaming a problem on too little copper, when the real problem might be high molybdenum in a forage or high iron or sulfur in a goat’s water source. " (Those minerals interfere with copper.)

It also says that forage, especially grass is low in copper.

Do you know anything about the minerals in your water and soil? 

If it's a copper deficiency, the dam's diet is probably the key here as Lacie said. Since they could walk when born, I think there is hope.


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## robntiff4 (Feb 14, 2015)

We just set up a Facebook page and a go fund me page.

The facebook page is: The Goatcart Twins

The go fund me page is: http://www.gofundme.com/mvbb4g

We are trying to get the word our so we can help these little cuties as best we can! Thank you all SO much for your help! You all are AMAZING and have offered so much hope! Blessings to you all!


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## dian_na (Jan 31, 2015)

I'd make one, a pvc square and use a sling kind of like what you have going, get them moving. even a swing set with the seats lowered and straddle them on it, anything to get them moving. Maybe those JumpingJimmy things they have for kids can be fit to them and would allow them to jump and strengthin the legs.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

There's a YouTube video called "Teddy's Wheels." It's about this little Dachshund who's paralyzed in his hind legs. His owner made a cool little cart for his hind legs out of Pvc pipes and straps. On one of the videos, the owner describes how he makes the carts. I know we want a cure for these little guys, but the videos might be worth watching for ideas if it comes to it.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

There is also video of Frosty, a goat kid that had "joint ill" and learned to walk after being in a little wheel chair. Unfortunately, he had a downturn and died. Anyway, the wheelchair might give you some ideas.

http://t.today.com/pets/frostie-baby-goat-whose-first-steps-wheelchair-went-viral-dies-1D79845314


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