# Problem buyer what would you do?



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Sorry if this is a book, I’m just in a bad mood and need advise on what others would say or do before I reply to this guy.
I’ve had a couple that has bought kids from me a few years now. This last year they asked to be on my waiting list and I let them know they were first on that last. They have always been very decent people! So as soon as the first kid hit the ground I had him messaging me wanting to come look at kids and pick his out. I actually just counted all his messages and there was 6 of them all saying along the lines of we have this week off work can we come up? Are you free this weekend? And so on. Every time I replied that I’m in the middle of kidding, I still have some to kid out, wait till they get a little older so I can price them fairly.
The last time he messaged me he said I like this buckling and we really want to stop by this weekend since we will already be up that way. Totally against my own personal rules I finally gave in. So they come up and they didn’t want a buck with papers but wanted this buck that was 100%, less then 1 week old. They also wanted a handful of doelings. I quoted them a price and they said that was more then they planned on spending can we meet in the middle. I was kinda over it so said yes. They got a great deal and I did a mental yelling at myself, left just leave it at that. But I chalked it up to my fault once I realized what they got them for per head.
The wife asks if she can have papers on the buck and I said yes. They have always been good buyers why not.
So they asked if I could deliver the Goats to them. They live by tractor supply so was t a big deal to hook the trailer up and do so. So then I get 3 messages letting me know what days I can deliver lol. I said I will bring them when I have to go down there. Finally we set a day and the night before my sisters husband was sick and I took her kids. That’s 5 kids! 5 kids that will NOT all fit in my truck. So I called him told him what was up and that it would have to wait till the following day. He got seriously rude at me! I lost my temper and told him since it’s his responsibility to pick them up he is more then welcome to come drive up here and pick them up himself! After that he said it was fine to wait another day.
So fast forward to about 2 months after he gets his Goats. I take some Wethers to the sale and they are there buying does. So we are sitting there talking and I go to get my check and the wife follows me into the office. She tells me husband is not happy with the way the buck is growing that they would like to bring some does over to breed to my new buck!!! I was kinda shocked and said I don’t do outside breeding (inside thinking you just bought 3 sale yard does!) she tries to push so I told her that I actually have 30 straws or semen for sale and she can buy some to breed to her does! So she drops it.
A week later he messages that the buck is acting interested in the does but not mounting. I told him he is still young give him time and see........buck was 4 months old at that age.
Today I post my pictures of my does on FB talking about any day now kids! Now I get a message from him (buck is now 8 months old he has had him for 5) “hey I was wondering if yoshi (the bucks sire) had any issues with his kids not dropping their balls? We wormed today and his are smaller then a 8 week old kids. Any ideas? 
I had this whole reply ready telling him off that I told him to wait and see how the kids grew before he came up and he keeps coming up with reasons he doesn’t like the buck but realized I’m in a terrible mood and should ask what others would do. I no longer care if I deal with these people after This year and husband told me to just ignore the message. Thoughts?


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

All sales are final. Buyer to investigate all prior to taking delivery.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh! And that reminds me I have a signed contract that says that! It basically says all sales are final I guarantee nothing


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh wow, I am so sorry  I agree, he rushed into it, this is all on him. You guaranteed him nothing, and you even asked him to wait and choose when kids were older. If the message on your post continues to bother you then tell him that.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m sitting here stewing about it but he also didn’t say hey you sold me a bad buck it’s do you know what’s going on? Now that I’ve calmed down (writing all that helped) I’m tempted to just say no one else has a issue I have no idea. I know what he is after, well not really just that he is totally unhappy with the buck. I don’t know what he is really expecting me to do. He’s 8 months old, he’s had 5 months to realize he is not up to standards if he really isn’t. I’m not going to take him back even if there is something wrong because I don’t want to bring home any diseases which he knows because I told the wife that’s why I don’t do out side breedings. Maybe I should just ignore him and deal with whatever fall out he brings :/


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Not one breeder in the world can tell what a week old kid will actually look like when fully mature. Sure, you have an idea, but there are NEVER guarantees. It it were easy, we as breeders, would never second guess ourselves when it came to keepers and those we decide to sell. Sounds like he needs to go bother someone else.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How annoying...I would ask him questions, like Has he used any cocci prevention?( because if he hasn't, that may be why he's slower growing) What is his diet? Do you have a picture of his scrotum? lol...I would also remind him that he got a steal of a deal per head and that THIS is exactly the reason you prefer to hold onto them longer and you should have stuck to your guns. Let him know you won't be selling that early again.Put your foot down Jessie! Your goats are worth waiting for....and your hard work is worth you being paid for.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thank you guys! I think your right Stephany and I’m going to ask questions. When I went back and read the message it doesn’t make any sense. He asked if anyone has had issues with the testicles dropping but then said they are small. I’m not sure which one he means or if he thinks not dropping is because they are small? Either way he did have testicles! I checked his teats and scrotum for any splits and there is no way he didn’t have any and I didn’t notice. On top of that when they came she said she learned about test structure and wants to check all their teats even though I had a list of all their test structure so I was catching them and she was feeling and looking at them so there is twice someone got down and dirty with him.
Being small I was honestly trying to see how I was in the fault on that but then I got to thinking. I had 3 orphan bull calfs this year and they were orphans way to young so looked like crap. When I handed them they had tiny testicles. Well thinking of him he was in with a group of adult does and a buck trying to breed at 4 months old when he told me he wasn’t Mounting. He very well could be under fed so I’m going to ask for a picture and see what he is talking about with them not dropping. Testicles don’t just disappear!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok this is what I replied


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

I think you're being very gracious, balanced, and just about right. I wish everyone was similar to deal with, and I wish I had the wisdom to deal with everyone in this same way!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You also have to question his husbandry. You really can't answer his questions when you haven't cared for the animal.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

No good deed goes unpunished. Stick to your procedure. Not until the kids are ready by your standards.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I always put my foot down, No exceptions.
Buyers who ask me to put a price on newborns, I tell them. 
I will evaluate at 1 month old, then price them, that is when I check out teat structure, scrotum ect. No sooner, as it is so hard to see imperfections that young, if they are there. 

It isn't fair to the buyer and breeder, to price newly born kids, some will change a lot to either better or worse. But some stay the same.
We may price, too high or too low, not being fair to either party. 
By 1 month, you kinda get a better idea where they are going. 

I don't let buyers over rule or bully me to get their way for a kid that young and pricing or even putting down a deposit.

I put buyers on a waiting list. At 1 month old I notify them, kids are priced. 
Then, if they are interested in one, they can place a deposit on them then.
I may be harsh but, I tell them straight up, no. 

Your buyer was too quick on the draw for a kid, was inconsiderate, disrespectful to you by putting you in that situation in the first place. They had first choice yet didn't have the patience to wait until you could evaluate them a little older to be fair. That is on the buyer. 

I do have to say, some really good kids that leave here, do not always turn out very well because of bad care of the buyer. I have seen some I was just floored on how poorly they looked, it is devastating and disgusting. 

Some buyers neglect to worm, do cocci prevention, so growth isn't stunted, to not feeding properly, giving no loose salt and minerals. Or not enough of something in it, or they do not eat them.
And do not supplement it when needed.
That is what I believe happen here. 

Having small scrotum tells me the buck is not getting enough copper in his diet. The scrotum gets super small in size and they lose libido. 

The buyers had the buck long enough you shouldn't have to take him back, refund anything or supply a buck for breeding. 

However, if the buck is infertile, and a vet clarifies with me, a sperm sample, there is infertility. I will refund or give another buck choice. 

I would maybe mention copper deficiency may be an issue, along with minerals and what I mentioned here, ask what are they feeding, how much ect. 

It is on the buyers with what is happening to him and not growing well, not you. 
Ask how they are feeding, any minerals, worming, cocci, any fishtail ect. You will get the idea on if they are at fault.

I wouldn't deal with them again after this.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It was partly my fault because I should have kept my ground. I shouldn't have given in to get him off my back or have to explain that just because others price young doesn't mean that's the rule. This is for sure a learning the hard way thing and it won't happen again.
He replied








There is no way I missed him not having testicles! I check every single buck for any splits because my one buck does have a split and I didn't realize it when I bought him and won't do that to another. It is a cull factor for me.
It was $3,000 for 12 animals. That comes out to $250 a head. The vet bill alone would be more then he even paid for the buck. If the buck some how did loose his testicles and I refund the money who eats the vet bill? Even though I have sold as is on the contract I don't want him going around saying I'm selling Wethers as bucks or whatever else he comes up with. Depending on the shape he is in he's probably worth about $150 as meat so loosing $100 isn't the end of the world but I'm also not going to refund if there is nothing wrong with him other then he just jumped on a kid and decided he's not happy with him.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

You are put in a hard spot. Last year I sold 3 wethers (weaned) when they went to the buyer for fair market wethers. I weighed them before they left. The lightest was 63#. At fair, 2 1/2 months later, the heaviest was 67# per the show bill (I go to see my kids show). I did not let them place a reservation this year. They didn't worm or give minerals appropriately. They were thin and wormy. I would ask these buyers what their management practices are including minerals, copper and fecal analysis. My buyers told me they wormed once with safeguard - and they had other goats die......Perhaps if you can quarantine him and get him on a good regimen you will at least get your money back AND let the buyer know about good management practices - sounds like this is his problem. If you get him back into shape I would send a before and after picture. But if you decide not to go this route I would be tempted to eat the $100, saying this is why you don't like to place kids so young. Buyers who don't manage well can come back to bite a great breeder in the heinie. I would want to see the pics they send......


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would tell him that he got a great wether price at $250. I'd be reminding him how cheap he got all the goats from you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Buyers get all bills after the sale.
Being proven by a vet is on them in order to get results and to verify there is an issue.

I do not take back any goat, they can do whatever they want with it, but I get the registration papers back. don't want any diseases if they picked up something.

If and only if, a buck is not fertile and wasn't castrated, plus a vet says, it is not a fertile buck.
I would offer a replacement buckling, around the same price or they can pay more if they want a more expensive buckling, so no money out of pocket only if it is verified by a vet, he has an issue, caused by a defect, not because they did not give minerals or is dietary or being banded/castrated.

No scrotum seems odd, if you did indeed see he had them before he left.
It almost seems as if he was banded by someone.
I have seen a scrotum get smaller from copper deficiency, but, never seen them disappear. It must be looked at by a vet to determine what is going on with him and if someone cut him or not. The buyers may be trying to pull a fast one on you. Be aware.

If you sold him as is, then you are off the hook.

But if they bought him as a breeder young, they won't know of an issue until he is of breeding age.

Having a vets opinion on paper may help for proving your innocence. I know reputation is key, you want a good one. You are in a bad spot, it is a tough call. 

The whole thing is weird?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

ksalvagno said:


> I would tell him that he got a great wether price at $250. I'd be reminding him how cheap he got all the goats from you.


Lol I like you! Lol he does get $300 for his Wethers soooooo lol
Ok I didn't want to mention a vet and then have to pay for it too. There's a vet by him if he can get in to see him Nd I know for fact it's $100 just to walk threw the door with a appointment. 
I think the credit is very fair and that would be something I'm willing to do. Do you give the full credit of the purchase price? 
I do think I am being jerked around. That is 3 different issues that they have been unhappy about. We haven't even talked about a refund or anything so maybe he is just asking for advise I'm really not sure.
This was his reply and the pictures. He doesn't look great but really not as bad as I was expecting!


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow, he is 8 months old? He obviously should have a very visible scrotum hanging there. I think he needs checked like Pam said and go from there.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oy! That is weird....I'd wanna go check him myself and see if he was banded.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Is anyone wondering if this is actually the same goat? Does getting their goats mixed up sound a tiny bit more likely than a disappearing scrotum or accidental banding? The 2 spots on his butt are pretty distinctive, but I'm wondering if he has an ear tag or tattoo?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

catharina said:


> Is anyone wondering if this is actually the same goat? Does getting their goats mixed up sound a tiny bit more likely than a disappearing scrotum or accidental banding? The 2 spots on his butt are pretty distinctive, but I'm wondering if he has an ear tag or tattoo?


You got me thinking so I went back to make sure it is the right buck and he is. But I kept looking and FINALLY found a picture that shows his testicles! I honestly don't know what is going on. I honestly feel like something is up so I simply replied that the only way to know for sure what is going on is to take him to a vet. I don't get what the wife means by the other buck treats him like a doe so might be a hermie. Even if he was it's not like he has a vagina to put any kind of smell off.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow I agree, I'd want to inspect him in person to get my own opinion. So very sorry you are going through this.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

his testicles look really small even in that photo


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

He wasn’t even a month old in the picture. I went threw on the ones that I could see and he doesn’t look any better or worse compared to other boys his age. And still where did they go?
Anyways his wife called and we had it out. It was explained they had the first pick everything was sold as is. I wasn’t the one pestering them to come pick out kids at a young age. I don’t really want to be bad mouthed and honestly they didn’t pay much for him so it won’t hurt me to make them happy. I told them it was $3,000 for the batch so that’s $250 a head. We got in a HUGE argument over that and she said that they wouldn’t have paid much more then $150 for the does!!! I said no way in heck check your emails because they had me copy and email them the prices of everyone to look over the night before they came. NOTHING was listed under $250. Also on the contract it says #this #that and then just the total of $3000. 
I told her she has the option of having them sold as is or the option of meeting me half way and to get a video of him selling at the sale, and I will CREDIT them on another kid the difference once the registration papers hit my hands. They are NOT first on the list and they will NOT get to pick till they are st least 1 month old. She is going to talk to her husband about it.
And there is no way they are going to be offered a registered buck for $250!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is about the nicest I would be. I wouldn't be bending over backwards for them. No matter what you do, they won't be happy. So do what is best for you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Reputation is key and can get destroyed by people like this. So be careful.

I agree, to allow them an exchange, but for the same price. If they want registered, they will have to pay more. 

There is definitely something up with that buckling, I swear her looks castrated or banded.

All bucks mount lower pecking order bucks or wethers, it doesn't always mean hermi. So that is bogus.

The cost is on the buyer for a vet, to prove he is infertile first and not by being castrated or banding. 
Before any other goats switch hands. 

Getting a health certificate done if you do have them get another buck, so the deal is final, a vet says he has a scrotum and they cannot come back on you. Saying he never had one. Have them sign a contract of some sort. That they are happy with the exchange and the buck choice.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I honestly don’t want to screw anyone over. Even though sales are as is I always told myself if someone did have a issue I would make it right. I honestly do believe he was banded but I don’t have time to go look him over and really it’s not worth fighting about over $100.
I had called last year to get a price on a health cert and it was $75, that was for out of state sales, it should be about that if I go that way you think? If so I’m very willing to go that way so nothing back fires on me.
But Karen your right this is their last offer and I’m not going any more on it. They will be able to buy 1 more animal from me if they wish and they are done. No more dealing with them. I’ll sell everything to butcher before I deal with them again.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I agree. Your offer is generous and more than most would do in the same situation. 
I would add to get the exchange in writing if it does happen. That you are even up and no future exchanges due to the new buck's growth, health, etc. Maybe he was injured and it got infected...Hopefully a full vet exam sheds some light on this.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.

It is tough.

Buyer pays for everything, health certificate, vet checking what is going on with no scrotum issue ect, even if they are sucked up into his tummy and having to check with with ultrasound. To see if they are present. Especially if they want any course of action on your part, it must be proven, that he has a issue of no sperm count. I would have him sperm count tested if he still has them, if they are tucked up there. But I would not exchange anything, if the vet see's scars from banding.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I didn’t even bring the vet up again. She had me so mad I pretty much just want it over with. Pushing me around again? Probably but it is what it is. 
But good idea loggyacreslivestock! All that is pretty much already in the contract so I’ll just make it in big bold letters and highlight it for the next one. 
I still haven’t heard anything from them so maybe they will just go away lol I know wishful thinking :/


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

Is this buyer someone who will be looking to buy 3K worth of goats from you yearly?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I doubt it and at this point I don’t care. They don’t have a huge place and they already have 22 that I know of so I can’t see how they would have room for more then maybe a few. I haven’t had trouble selling my doelings the last few years except for my half dairy so I don’t think loosing him will hurt me any. I still have 3 people that didn’t get any last year on my waiting list and I’m sitting at 7 people waiting for kids. Even if I can’t sell them all I’m ok with butcher price then this.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Even if they did want to get more goats from you I wouldn't sell to them anymore.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

you should send the pictures with the scrotum obvious to the people to show them you know your stuff and didn't sell them a weather. do you have a date for the picture relative to when the people bought him, if so the closer to the sale date the better. also as mentioned before deficiency could be the problem, or infection. stay strong you know your stock better than anyone and they pressured you to give them a very young animal that you (or them) cant know what is going to happen to. they are the ones who should pay for all costs. either way if they sold him as a market weather they would still make like 50$, so tell them the cant complain. you are dealing with this much better than i would.


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## wifeof1 (Mar 18, 2016)

So after 4 pages of discussion, it's pretty clear they are just trying to get something for nothing from you now. You have a good contract. Stick to your guns.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

I don't know, their photos aren't the best; it could easily be camouflaged in the belly color....the angle of the photo also casts some doubt. Actually in the last photo, it almost looks like it's still there; though it's maybe about the size of the picture you have of him.

Am I the only one that seeing that, or is it just the light? Just slightly above my red line I filled in.

One would think that it would be bigger by now, I think they either banded him or maybe even crimped them?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I didn’t notice that! I wonder if he is just freakishly small and it wes cold so they were sucked up more. I also never even considered him crimping them! He said he has a sack but no testicles and that would leave the sack and no testicles! 
He was 3 1/2 weeks old in the picture I posted. So a few weeks after he picked them out but he didn’t leave here till 3 months old. I went threw and that is the only picture I can find of him showing his testicles clearly. All the rest are side shots. 
If he was crimped I wonder if a vet would even be able to tell? When we did calfs years ago it didn’t leave any marks. And if the vet could tell I doubt he could pin point when it was done. So maybe forgoing the vet was a better choice for me which my husband was super mad I did that.
But that’s what I would do with him if he wasn’t any good. I would have tipped his horns and sold as a show wether. He is the perfect age for the fair in April and he would make $50 on him. It’s been almost 24 hours and no reply from them so just maybe they will do that and go away (fingers crossed lol)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, a sperm sample, there will be no sperm at all.
Otherwise, he will have low sperm count or funky looking sperm. To high count, if he is super fertile with small scrotum. Which isn't logical for a high count like that.
Call your vet and verify.


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## mntnflyr4fun (Sep 14, 2014)

Well, after having been in outside sales all my life, my perspective is a bit different. Although everything that has been said here are valid comments, you really created this problem for yourself by violating your personal standards and now you are paying the price and being tormented over this for a long time. I didn't see how much you were paid for this goat, but you should ask yourself if it was enough to make it worth all this pain and have them bad mouthing you all over the countryside possibly costing you unknown amounts of future sales. If so, just quit responding to the emails. However, working towards an agreeable settlement that keeps them feeling good is your best outcome. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at yourself for putting yourself in this position in the first place. Learn the lesson, pay the price and move on.


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## singinggoatgirl (Apr 13, 2016)

Wow. I'd curl up in a ball and have a good cry, then stick to my guns, like everyone has been telling you. I think you've handled the aftermath well. I hope they are giving up and will stop pushing you around.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mntnflyr4fun said:


> Well, after having been in outside sales all my life, my perspective is a bit different. Although everything that has been said here are valid comments, you really created this problem for yourself by violating your personal standards and now you are paying the price and being tormented over this for a long time. I didn't see how much you were paid for this goat, but you should ask yourself if it was enough to make it worth all this pain and have them bad mouthing you all over the countryside possibly costing you unknown amounts of future sales. If so, just quit responding to the emails. However, working towards an agreeable settlement that keeps them feeling good is your best outcome. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at yourself for putting yourself in this position in the first place. Learn the lesson, pay the price and move on.


Keep it friendly, keep it fun.

That was a bit harsh and uncalled for.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

I wouldnt really say it was harsh, thats her opinion she didnt really say anything mean. Its true that this is just a lesson to grow from. A hard one but we all go through this type of stuff. You want to be nice to everyone, believe me Ive been through something similar and wont be making that mistake twice. Being able to work out this problem will make you a better person in the long run.


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## mntnflyr4fun (Sep 14, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Keep it friendly, keep it fun.
> 
> That was a bit harsh and uncalled for.


Well "Pam" I thought she asked for opinions.....mine is just to take some personal responsibility....Are only people who are in agreement with the OP are sposed to post?

What's so friendly about bashing a buyer no one even knows? The poster started all this, then got on here and tells her side of the story and everyone pats her on the hand..._it'll be ok soon as the bad ol buyer gives up from pushing you around....
_
Ya'll need a safe space do ya?

Time to cancel my membership in this forum.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Your first post did come off harsh but I also have thick skin and it didn’t bother me. 
No one ever bashed the buyer! And I am sure everyone was in agreement I was very much in the wrong that I shouldn’t have got a deposit on the kid so young. The only thing that MIGHT have been considered bashing was stating that I was never going to sell to the seller again and that came on way back when he threw a fit because I wouldn’t deliver them to him because my brother in law was in the ER. I’m sorry but if someone doesn’t understand that just might a little more important then doing you a favor I don’t need to deal with them.
But again you are totally right! I was very much at fault! And like goatzrule said I have learned my lesson and it won’t happen again. 
No I didn’t come on here to have my back patted or a shoulder to cry on I came on for ADVISE on how to handle it and what is fair on both parts. Do I think he’s screwing me? Yeah I do! Who wouldn’t notice a buck doesn’t have balls for over 5 months? It was said from the start they were unhappy with him. No way would I ever even consider doing anything for the pure fact that they were unhappy with him and now his balls are missing? But like I said I learned from it, I wasn’t a sketchy winch and even forgave the whole vet idea and said I would refund the balance owed. It’s pretty much been settled and I feel ok with the outcome. I can’t say this thread didn’t help me which is exactly what I did come here for because I went from going to tell him to shove it to what I do think is fair on both parts Incase some how I did sell them a dud.
Thanks for your your input I had great ideas and had it figured out a few days ago


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Please let us know what finally happens!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I will!


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## Tindi (Jul 11, 2012)

I think you have done everything you could have even going above and beyond. You care about your animals, your reputation and what people say about you, I think we all do. You supplied these people with animals previously that they were happy with and they should remember this. You gave them a deal, bent over backwards and tried to make things right when they complained MONTHS later. I think you have done all you can do. One thing I like about this forum is that there is support and you can post asking for advice and there are people to 'pat your hand and tell you it will be ok'


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## Mary B. (Jan 10, 2018)

Did you ever ask what they want? After that try to come to a agreement that both of you are happy with at the sake of your reputation and good luck, remember you can't make everyone happy.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I think having a different perspective is good, we on this forum do tend to side with the OP just human nature. We all need to think about both sides and I am sure we have all been on both sides at one time or another, this post may help us all in the future by having different views brought to our attention.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Other then when the wife told me they were unhappy with how he was growing and they wanted to bring does over to get bred I have not heard of what exactly they want or would make them happy. She never mentioned it on the phone just that he was missing the goods and that they spent more on him then I said they did. I still haven’t heard anything back so I don’t know if the whole thing was to just let me know, blow off steam or what.
Loving life I fully agree! The poster was very blunt and didn’t sugar goat his opinion and I totally respect that! It didn’t offend me and I can take it. but Toth also has a job to make sure nothing gets out of hand or feelings get hurt so it was the second reply that bothered me. 
Everything I said in the first post was what was said and I didn’t leave anything out because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being unfair and I admit the ignoring and the vet would have probably been unfair. I try to think of other peoples side as well and honestly unless they just come out and tell me look this is what I have a issue with I have no clue. I know what your saying though and I do agree. You all are sitting here listening to my side and not his and I respect that and no way can I get mad if someone tells me it was your fault when I came on here asking for advise.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

mntnflyr4fun said:


> Well "Pam" I thought she asked for opinions.....mine is just to take some personal responsibility....Are only people who are in agreement with the OP are sposed to post?
> 
> What's so friendly about bashing a buyer no one even knows? The poster started all this, then got on here and tells her side of the story and everyone pats her on the hand..._it'll be ok soon as the bad ol buyer gives up from pushing you around....
> _
> ...


 If you want to cancel membership, that is your decision. 
We do not condone negativity on TGS.

Please read your responses. 
They are not friendly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Jessica, thank you, you are correct, I have a job to do, sometimes I do not like having to do it, but it keeps things in line. 
Some people don't like it, but, it is, what it is. 

We have good members here and TGS wants to protect them. This is my job.  

I don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt, so we have to "moderate".


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You moderators do a wonderful job! 
With goats there are numerous possible answers to most questions. 99% of the time, if someone is thought to be wrong or had an incorrect answer, they are gently corrected. Not. "Hey stupid"! This site has been a lifesaver for so many goats, mine included!

Back to the buyer condundrum, I think you have handled it quite well. You are way more diplomatic than most people would be. Good luck resolving the "Mystery of the disappearing testicles"!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> pretty much just want it over with


This is what you said when they contacted you over and over at the beginning of this debacle. You "know" you caved to "avoid" conflict. Now you're in between a rock and a hard place. You DO need to stand firm (grow some balls, lol) and trust yourself. Doesn't matter how many animals someone buys from you, keep to your guidelines and save everyone, especially YOU heartache. People will respect you, even if they aren't happy, cause they didn't get their way. BooHoo.....

I know you just want it over with, but with people like this, you can't allow it. If you give in, they will come up with another "defect" on one of the other goats you sold them. They are the "squeaky wheel" . My daughter has a yacht-wear company, and believe me when I say, that she has dealt with this "type" of individual over and over! She used to jump through hoops, issue refunds, credits, whatever, just to soothe the customer. And you know what? All that she accomplished by bending over backwards, was extra work for herself, loss of income, and a lot of aggravation! 
Finally she realized that she had enough GOOD customers and why was she allowing these lowclass leeches to disrespect her and her company.. Her solution? When they contact her, she tells them, in a polite professional FIRM way, that she isn't able to assist them at this time. She doesn't defend, explain or qualify herself response.

I hope you follow up about the missing "balls" with a vet. I would be at their place so much critiquing their pens, feed, hay, water, dirt, fencing, etc. that they'd PAY me to leave them alone! 
(I'm kinda joking, I know you can't do that, but if you could- just saying) LOL

Good luck and I hope you look at this as a valuable life lesson on how to deal with "difficult" people! Just the fact that you came here for advice, shows you are a person with integrity and honesty, traits your customers lack.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol well growing a pair seems to be issues around here lol
You know I have been thinking along the same lines. It’s not that I let people push me around it’s that I did allow them to. They have always been so awesome! Their son once even accidentally didn’t pull a $5 bill out when he bought a bottle baby from me and he made sure to pay it back. But I need to stop giving special treatment to people I do like or think are good people and treat everyone the same. I need to not care if they don’t understand why I’m doing things the way I’m doing it or care if they are in the area and bend to them. 
I think the hardest thing for me is I remember first starting out and came across a rude lady. I mean she was over the top rude and to this day I will see her Goats for sale and love the looks of the animal and when I see the name I pass by. So I don’t want to be known as rude but at the same time I need to stick to my guns. 
This has very much been a eye opener for me and as upset as I was to start with I needed it. As annoying and a big headache as it was I guess it could have been way worse. I do like to learn things the hard way lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

My brother and his wife have a high end kitchen supply store. When they first opened 15 years ago, they sat down and decided how they would discount various people. They made a circle. The bulls eye was immediate family - mom, 4 siblings. They got a 30% discount. Next were 1st cousins and aunt (3 of those). They got a 15% discount. Friends 10% etc. 

Business is not friendship. You can do a little leeway, but set your prices and policies and try and stick to your guns. Eventually, people will realize they cannot bully you. You will be respected for it!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Its good for the buyers, especially new ones to learn what buying a goat is really like and what to expect with other breeders


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I have learned that too. I will sooner put a goat in the freezer than let someone rob me of my asking price.
But you wish people would be respectful and not so insulting.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

You have the right attitude, and it ‘s obvious you truly care about your animals and your customers. It’s nice to see you have maintained you sense of humor! You will do fine, just be yourself..


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Goats rock that is a fantastic idea! Luckily I don’t have any family wanting Goats lol but still it’s a good idea to have something as a list and stick to it. I think I’m just going to do $50 off a head for multiple purchase and keep it at that. Don’t even think about past or what they would or won’t do in the future.
I don’t think my prices are half bad since I price on what I would spend and well I’m cheap lol
Stephany now that I have made the brave jump and have one in the freezer I will very much be looking at it that way! Especially on doelings! I know with the boys once they are banded they only have one fate once they hit the sale yard. It’s the girls that rip my heart out. I’m considering giving up selling bucks anyways since I have more people wanting show wethers then bucks the last few years. I’m just not sure I want to go Into all that drama just yet


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Man, I haven't been on here in a while but I own my own business and this thread hits home. I service computers and electronics and you can't imagine the stuff people try to pull. I provide mobile and onsite service. I have learned a lot since starting and how to filter out the bad customers. I require a minimum $50 deposit on all take away jobs. Those who want something for nothing usually hang up without so much as a goodbye.

I also have to watch out with my goats. I ALWAYS require a deposit to hold them, otherwise people will change their mind and back out. There are some real nuts out there and people who think goats can survive by eating paper bags and newspapers.

Here are some examples:

-A guy brings in a laptop for virus removal. I didn't even look at it when he brought it as I was busy. I open the lid and the screen is basically falling out of the thing in shattered pieces. I call him to let him know and it is immediately my fault and I owe him a new screen. I told him that was crap and that I wasn't going to take his **** and he could take me to court if he wanted. I told him either come get the stinkin' laptop or I will be recycling it. I never heard from him again and that was that. I always open the lid now and have had a few people back out once they realized I knew what they were up to.

-I had several pull this next one. I call the owner with a list of problems and an estimate and their response is "There was nothing wrong with it when I brought it to you." I just laugh at them and tell them they are full of crap and make no bones about it. My response is "You responded to my ad for computer repair. Why did you bring it to me if there was nothing wrong with it?"

-Then there is always the person who calls you months or longer after you have worked on their computer and there is some issue. They want it fixed for free. One guy wanted me to drive out to his home that was quite a distance away for free and see why the speakers weren't working. I told him that would be a service call and his response was like "No, you will come back out for free." I told him that odds are something was disconnected and that nothing was really wrong. He kept insisting that I come back for nothing and got really rude about it. He was like "You WILL come back out and you WILL not charge me anything." I was like "You WILL listen to me as I think I can talk you through this on the phone or I WILL hang up on you and NEVER talk to you again." He knew he had reached the breaking point with me so listened. I asked him what color port the speakers were plugged into and he wouldn't respond. He was like "What color should it be in"? I told him to use the lime green or black port and suddenly he had sound and everything was fine.

This guy continued to call about stupid stuff from time to time and he knew that I didn't really care for him after our dealings. He then called one day about needing some other repair and I told him it had been a year and this wouldn't be free. He then tried the MANIPULATION tactic which I have found is quite common. This blows the overload fuse in my brain and I am done with a person after that. He then starts telling me how he works at a no kill animal shelter and that me not fixing this is hurting innocent animals. I let him know I was pretty much done with him at this point. Anyway, he called and I didn't answer so it went to voicemail. He is like "I took it somewhere else and they found the problem and was interested to see if you would warranty it." I never called back and that was that.

I forgot all about this and then adopted a cat from an animal shelter a couple years later. They gave me a bunch of computer junk to recycle and I suddenly recognized one computer. Anyway, I made sure to really tear it down to see what was wrong. It was FULL of animal urine which is terrible on electronics. He KNEW this and was going to try something with me anyway.....

-Then I have the real nutcases with the gaming consoles. I have pretty much written off working on gaming consoles and require a hefty deposit before I even touch one. These people are usually unemployed, on drugs, etc. A couple of them have threatened to kill me because I wouldn't return their unit without payment and I almost had to run one of them over with my car.

Anyway, I have PLENTY of other similar stories but haven't had any lately. I have gotten quite busy dealing with businesses and higher end customers and can barely keep up so really can cherry pick my customers. I also figured out the demographic to advertise to. I am paying the big bucks to advertise on the local talk radio station which is great. You get all the business owners and educated people.

I also know what to avoid. Facebook has been TERRIBLE for attracting problem customers. It is like those people are not able to function in daily life. It seems they have nothing better to do but sit around and cause drama. No thanks! Then there are the days when the "disability" checks and such come out. I am so sick of hearing that someone is on "disability" and then I watch the guy load half a junk car onto a trailer by himself. When someone says something about being on "disability" or a "fixed income", I know to run as they are usually working the system and plan on trying to work me as well. These people come out of the woodwork for a few days after they get their checks, blow all their money within 48 hours or so, and then disappear for another month.

Anyway, dealing with the general public can be a real trip. People are just nuts these days and it seems to be getting worse.

Conor


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m sitting here on the couch with my husband and got to the part where you repair computers why did you bring it to me and busted up laughing! (Husband looked at me like I was crazy!) I do agree people have lost their minds and it is getting worse. I couldn’t even think of half the things people do that is down right sketchy so it just blows my mind. I’m wondering though if there just also a certain level of stupid thrown in. 
It’s funny/ sad though because right in the middle of this going on my husband gets a call from one of his friends that he built a shop pad for. When she first asked him to do it he told her cutting into the hill is going to cause it flood and wash away. She didn’t think so so told him just go for it. He did. Now the first rain and it did exactly what he said it was going to do and she wants him to fix it. From my understanding all that would have had to happen was move it like 100’. Anyways I told him well we like to learn the hard way, next time pass on it, he agreed. 
I still haven’t heard anything about this whole ordeal. Tomorrow will be our the second Saturday he could have sold the kid so I’m waiting for the phone call. I’m super curious what is going on but not about to call them lol I don’t know if they sold him and got more money then they figured they would have, if they would rather tip his horns and sell as a show wether or they simply wanted to complain. I personally would tip his horns and sell as a wether. They would make $50 instead of a credit but at this point who knows. I’m just chalking it up to lesson learned. No more “well if they want to hound me to put a deposit on a tiny kid who am I to argue it”. It will be NO!!! Or go to someone else


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, I am so busy lately that if I get any sign of a bad customer, I tell them I don't think I am going to be able to help them and move on.

That shop pad story sounds like something that would happen to me. I used to get people who wanted me to fix the problem as cheaply as possible. The problem is that such repairs might last them two days or two years. I used to do these repairs but tell them this. Then when the thing broke again in two weeks they would come right back to me demanding that I fix it again. I told them you picked the cheap option that I didn't recommend but they wanted it done that way. They seem to forget all about this.

Now I either refuse to do the job or make them sign a form acknowledging that they are picking a cheap band-aid and that there will be no guarantees. The form also explains that all the work they just had done might need to be redone for the same or a higher price if/when the temporary patch fails.

I have pulled out this form a few times. Some opt to fix it right while others simply walk away. One thing I will not do is take in a piece of equipment without having at least $50 upfront. The gaming consoles are $75 upfront as I have too many problems with the owners.

Also, the low-end in general is really bad. I have a saying "I don't know what is worse.... A computer from Wal-Mart or a person who would buy a computer at Wal-Mart." These people are commonly my troublesome ones and the equipment was junk from the start.

I hear all the same things from other business owners. Grocery people always have the most trouble with the "couponers" and on days when the food stamp cards come out. Bankers have the most issues on the 3rd of the month. Never mind the ides of March. It is the 3rd of the month for me as well. When you combine the 3rd of the month with a full moon and things really get nuts! I used to offer coupons and discounts for certain things but no more. I had some good customers from this but usually it was someone who wanted something for nothing and was more trouble than they were worth. When people ask about a discount I tell them I charge my hourly rate to discuss the price to shut them up.

I get people who drive considerable distances and are unwilling to pay the upfront deposit. I told them this was required before they left but then try to make me the bad guy for wasting their time and gas by not taking in the computer. It wasn't MY FAULT that they decided not to bring the upfront money and I tell them that.

Some of the people from India and such are the worst about this. I get a lot of these with the university but also potential goat buyers. You have to really hold your ground with these types, otherwise they will take advantage of you and waste your time.

The entitlement mentality is really ruining people. I am all for helping people but when those "on a fixed income" don't look so bad off and drive a nice car, etc. The roads around here are just packed with new cars but with the bumpers hanging off, etc. on the days the checks are distributed. It is downright scary to be out when the benefits come out. I purposely plan ahead and stock up on groceries and other supplies so I can avoid being in stores each 3rd of the month and the couple days afterwards. I don't stock up much to avoid snowstorms but do to avoid the 3rd of the month.

Advertising on talk radio is the way to go if you have a service business and want to avoid nonsense. People who are listening to Dave Ramsey typically have made good decisions in their lives and aren't "on a fixed income" or "disability." "Disability" is the most abused system on the planet if you ask me.

Conor


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## Einhorn (Jan 2, 2014)

Op, I hope this is all you have to deal with from those folks.

And Conor, I don't think you understand what "disability" means...

But yes, it is hard to deal with people who have unrealistic expectations, I think we can all agree on that!


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, I am sure there are some people who need disability but this system seems to see lots of abuse.

I had some guy where I was working on a computer. He made mention of needing a job to pay some extra bills. There is a factory in town that pays well and has good benefits so I mentioned that I had seen they were hiring. He said "I am 100% disabled so cannot work. I need something under the table and completely cash." Anyway, I couldn't see a thing wrong with him and he looked like a healthy muscular buff guy.

He made mention about having people allowing him to come collect scrap metal and how some people dump it off for him, hence the pile in his yard. I had a couple scrap computers in the car that I gave him as there is recycle value to these. I set them out for him and he said he about had a load. I watched him lift and push like half the stripped shell of an old car up onto his trailer and he didn't seem to have much of a problem doing it. Yeah, this guy is 100% "disabled" and cannot work! As I said, he looked like a perfectly healthy muscular young guy. Those who work pay for this crap so it is pretty frustrating when someone calls and expects a discount, yet they have a nicer car than mine and all the latest model electronic gadgets.

Conor


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

it sure is difficult to deal with some members of the public! It seems everyone wants something for nuthin'!


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, I agree. If they start trying to work me, I send them on down the road. There are times I have jobs stacked up and they are just wasting my time. I tell them to either pay up or stop wasting my time as I am busy. You cannot be nice to these people. I have also noticed that I don't seem to get as many of these. I think word must get around in these circles that I do not deal with this type.

Then there are those who treat you like a yard sale. They don't understand that you have to pay for advertising, taxes, insurance, etc.

Conor


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It’s a proven fact people will lie and get money for something they shouldn’t. When I was younger there was a lady that would shoot at the gun club I worked at her her job was to go around and investigate people that are believed not to be disabled and there were A LOT that ended up not needing to be on it. Years ago I was talking to my best friend that I had in high school. She didn’t work and her husband had a very good job. They had many nice things, a new house, a brand new truck for her and the whole family had quads and went to ride them at the beach once a month. I don’t remember how we got on the topic but some how we got on the topic of money and I was telling her that on paper my husband makes good money. Long story short she sat there and explained to me how they are able to collect welfare without even needing it! I believe that was the last time I ever spoke to her again.
Either way though if someone is on a fixed income for whatever reason that doesn’t mean anyone should have to do something for less or sell something for less. You are so right Conor no one has any idea of how much you pay for what you do, what bills you have, basically what your story is. All they see is what they have to pay you. But it’s simple if you want it fixed pay for it. If you want the goat pay for it. If you can’t afford it don’t get it fixed or purchase it. I could give people all kinds of sob stories when I can’t afford something but I don’t I simply thank them for their time and that I’m gonna have to pass.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There is one way a goats balls could disappear... Steroids, using steroids to try and grow him out faster or using foods high in pseudo- estrogens ie soy, peas or pea hay, peanut hay, even clover. 

I no longer sell to the public at all. It's not worth my sanity.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is that what the growth hormone is that people gives to steers? I had no idea though that those plants did that!


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, people want something for nothing. That is for sure!

I forgot red flag #3 on my list. That is the SOB STORY. People call me and tell me how they have some type of illness or their electricity is about to be cut off but want to buy a computer or have one repaired. I just respond that I am not a medical doctor and don't have any solutions for that problem but can take care of the computer issue. OR I tell them that I have no sway with the power company so best of luck getting that figured out.

Yes, dealing with the general public can be a real trip and sometimes tests your sanity. I have told people I would rather not deal with the lower end at all and been told I am heartless. I guess having your life threatened a few times over some small amount of money owed on a repair will do this to you. These types of people are their own worst enemy. They can go to Wal-Mart and buy a cheap throwaway computer that will only last them a few months or a year at best or use a rent to own center and pay 10x the actual cost for a pile of junk that breaks as soon as it is paid off and then they repeat the process.

This type seems to have become an expert at knowing when someone it at their breaking point and isn't going to take their crap anymore! They are sociopaths or psychopaths, pure and simple. The guy I almost ran over with my car was a gaming system. I was carrying it to him and he told me he wasn't going to pay. So, I turned around and got in my car and placed it on the passenger seat and he was in front of my car threatening to kill me. I gunned the engine and had it bouncing off the rev limiter and responded "You had better get the hell out of my way, otherwise I am going to dump this clutch and send you to hell personally!" He got the idea and quickly got out of the way as I took off. Then there were a couple others just like this that threatened to kill me. Once I had the pistol in my pocket in my grip and another time I had the one under my seat in my grip. These people are professionals. They know exactly when you are at your limit and when to back off so it is apparent they have done this to many people in the past and get the idea of just how far they can push.

I now have a dash cam in my car to record possible interactions with these idiots as well as the brain dead drivers out on the road. Here is a video that just so reminds me of some of my bad customers. EVERYONE I know sent this to me when it went viral. This guy is my hero. The customer didn't know when to stop and understand when the guy had enough.

Edit:
"Removed video because of language content"

Conor


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Also, I used to work in downtown St. Louis but no more. There is a reason I live out on 48 acres with goats.

Anyway, you always had the bums begging for money. There was always excuse such as needing money to get a bus ticket to work or to a job interview. I had one of these. The guy needed money to ride the bus to work. I was riding the bus at the time and had pre-purchased a booklet of bus passes as it was significantly cheaper per ride. I pulled out a bus pass and offered to give it to him. He started cussing me and calling me a racist. Well, he needed a ride to work on the bus and I was giving him exactly what he requested.... 

Then the same thing happened with a guy who said he was hungry and needed lunch. He asked me for money to buy lunch. We were right in front of a Wendy's so I told him I would take him inside and buy him whatever he wanted. I was cussed out and called a racist.

The downtown hi-rise building where I worked had a nice overhang at ground level where employees would go outside and smoke and such. I worked for a large corporation that has several large buildings in a row and one of the tallest in the city. I got a visit to the top of that building to get some photos of the city skyline for a website I was building. It was a pretty neat experience being up there on top of it all. Anyway, I got to talking with the building manager about problems they have and he said that the bums liked camping out under that overhang in the building where I worked and that this had been a big problem. He had a solution. Everything was computer-controlled so the irrigation sprinklers were programmed to turn on at about 4AM and turn INWARDS and really hose down the area under that overhang. This was to get the bums wet and cleared out of the area before people started showing up for work. Then a janitor would go out and pickup all the liquor bottles and other trash and the place looked pristine as you walked in. No one would ever know what went on each night.

Conor


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Crazy stuff!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Dang, I was going to ask Conner's opinion on my new computer... Now I'm afraid to. lol


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Conor, years ago, I worked in East St. Louis! I worked for Philip Morris. (They made Marlboro cigarettes). I guess I was pretty dumb. I was supposed to be out of ESL before dusk. I wanted to see what would happen! (DUH!) It wasn't fun. A police officer pretty much escorted me back across the River. I started carrying a firearm after that. (1986) East St. Louis had the most murders in the US at that time! 

Glad I'm in the woods with my goats now!


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm a huge pushover in most cases, but I'm GREAT at ghosting people out or repeating myself until they stop asking. I have people text me asking me to babysit their kids, which I used to do a lot in addition to working and then told all my clients I was going back to school and would stop accepting jobs 2 weeks later. They keep asking if I'm available sometime next week and even if I am, i say "no" because I already told them I'm out and if I say yes once, they'll never stop texting me. I cycle through a list of lies or, if it's the same day, I never respond and act like I didn't see it until it was too late. It's how I mesh a fear of confrontation with digging my heels in. It's been fairly effective but it's a long play.

People can be so dumb with their scams. My favorite is the classic tag switch in retail stores. They'll come up with an item and the incorrect tag (which we put directly on the shelf) is half stuck to the box and losing it's sticky. I used to say "sorry for the inconvenience, _somebody _must've moved that there. This tag is from a different section entirely." And then they try to insist that we have to honor the price. Go to Burger King if you want to have it your way.

I know that people all have different technological abilities, but we also have different tempers with different subjects. I happen to have very little patience with anyone asking for my help with technology. Unless it's my grandma. Nana can have my help any the time.

I've been following this thread for quite a while now and want to say that OP, it is obvious to me that you've made an effort to make things right, even though it probably wasn't your fault. If it was me, I'd probably go out there and get my hands on him then offer to refund the purchase (just of the one goat) and take the goaf if I thought something was off. That would be my only offer, though. Any free breedings, refunds without the animal changing hands, or replacement animals would be out of the question. I have the ability to quarentine, though. Great job, Op!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Jessica84 I'm really sorry you are going through this. Don't have anything better to offer you than that.


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## New-goat-mom (May 21, 2017)

I guess what it all boils down to is, some people will take advantage of anyone and anything they can. It definitely sounds like they wanted to in the case of Jessica's goat. 

But for the record, I bought a Wal-Mart computer for my now 17 y/o 2 years ago. As a single mom, it's what I could afford, and he needed it for school. It's still going strong, but thankfully, if we have an issue, his older brother can repair it for him. Beats having to humiliate myself at a repair shop with my cheap computer, for sure. I also use coupons (rabidly) and search diligently for mark downs. Somehow, I am well loved at my local grocery, and no one seems to view me as a problem. I have also given homeless people food and hot coffee, gloves and hats, and it was well received. Perhaps because I viewed them as a homeless person, not a "bum". Perhaps not everyone fits under a neat little definition of "that kind of people".


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

mntnflyr4fun said:


> Ya'll need a safe space do ya?
> 
> Time to cancel my membership in this forum.


If you do decide to leave, then it will be your goats who suffer for it. Yes, we all need a safe space to learn to be the best goat owners we can be.

Because we all make really dumb mistakes. Figuring out what went wrong is important, and even more important is figuring out how to move forward. That was the advice requested from us.

We offer that same safe space to you and your goats that we offer to others.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I see some of us have gone off topic.

Please try to keep it on topic and keep it clean.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I promised I would update you all on this and I’ve been waiting to see how it all unfolds before I did.
About a week ago I came across the guys add selling him as a wether, $350.
2 days ago a friend who was in the loop of all this shares someone’s FB post on her new wether. Today I got a message from him saying they decided to just go ahead and buy a buck outright from me. My reply was ‘yeah I saw your add and that you sold him to X. I’m sorry but I will have nothing to sell to you’ I have absolutely nothing I owe him and no desire to deal with him again. He can talk badly all he wants, I offered, and have proof to make it right and if I was such a terrible person then why would he come back to me. At this point I’ll welcome whatever he brings down on me then deal with him. I was already annoyed over the delivery thing so I’m good with this choice.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

Wait, you sold them a buckling, they wethered him and complained that he wasn't a buck, and tried to sell him as a wether and buy another buck from you? They asked for a refund, put the little guy up for sale for more than they paid, and still tried to get more out of you? I just dont understand people. You have more patience than I can hope to have and definitely dealt with them better than I would have. Good for you for drawing the line.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

It's gonna be OK, Jessica. I'm sorry that you've lost respect for these people, because I know that really is a loss, and you did nothing to cause it. I'd be surprised if you hear anything more, but it you do, please document it here.

One thing you could do, if you had one you are ready to cycle through, is to sell them a proven buck, at a really high price. There is no way they can claim to miss the testes on that one! I think it is well established now that you do not owe them money for the other one, as they've wethered him and sold him for so much (or offered him for so much, that was unclear to me)

Oh, and don't offer delivery of this one.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well nothing was for sure on what happened to his testicles. I know he had them and I have googled like crazy and everything I have come across basically says that they simply won’t grow. Example- gets sick with a high fever lack of minerals that kind of thing but he claimed there was absolutely nothing there just a empty sack.
I then said I would give him a credit for whatever the balance is after he sold him. Yes if he got his asking price he sold for more then what He paid. 
With his reply, how I took it was him trying to say, you know let’s just forget the credit because I’m such a good guy and I’ll just buy another one and probably get a discount you know because I’m forgiving the credit. He didn’t say that but that’s what I gathered out of it.
I did second guess what was going on, what happened if something happened on my time and I did sell him a dud although I couldn’t find anything that would cause his testicles to just vanish other then someone physically altering him, which I know for a fact didn’t happen here. But he got his his money back on him, probably a little extra so I won’t have any guilt on my side that’s for sure. I was going to block him but I’ll see if he comes back with something.......I’m kinda nosey like that lol


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm certain you did not sell him a dud, I'm equally certain that whatever happened, happened on his farm, on his watch, probably by mistake... but I don't make people who sell to me responsible for my mistakes. Especially months later. 

And yes, I do think there has been a physical alteration on the other farm, because he was not a wether when you sold him, but he was a wether when the other guy sold him. Wethering, to my understanding, is a man-made thing. You MAY have sold him an infertile buckling, you did not sell him a wether. But HE sold a wether. That is what I'm going by. At some point on the buyer's farm, the buckling became a wether.

If you think it is time to move on a large, proven buck, and he says he wants a buck, you could offer him one at a darn good price (good for you) Then offer him a discount off of that VERY good for you price if you want to. Hey, he wants a buck, and here's one he can't miss the testes on!

Or you could just ignore him if you want. I don't feel he has been upfront with you on moving forward. At this point, I really think you are free of obligation. You've done so much already to try to accommodate him.


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## Redbarngoatfarm (Jul 8, 2015)

Following...love watching the human condition....I’m with you Jess- I would not sell to him again, but curious if he comes crawling back, he-he!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad it is over with. Sounds best to have nothing to do with him.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I thought about selling him the sire himself because I’m not impressed with his looks but even being a very fugly buck he throws very nice kids so I think I’ll just keep him. But I talked to my husband about it all and he said he gets the impression this guy feels that I need to sell to him. And why wouldn’t he really. I gave him a deal, let him get first pick and delivered to him. If I take every single kid to the sale it pays the bills, anything that is over market price is what pays for part of my time (yeah I’ll never make all my time lol) so I’m ok. I also decided to try selling show wethers this year and see how it goes and so far I have a bunch of interest in them. We will just see how that whole crazy other world does though lol


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That buyer sure didn't want a vet to look at him and see why he has no scrotum.
That buck was altered way before his re-sale by the buyer. Not you.
If I seen that he was being sold as a wether and the buyer gave no proof from a vet on why, he had no scrotum.
I would not give him any deals thereafter. 
That tells me it was a mistake on their end.

I need proof being I give any refunds or discounts.

Under what you said, I would never deal with them again. 

Having a vet health certificate would of indicated there is nothing wrong or is wrong with the scrotum. A vet feels it and can tell if nothing is present and the buyer didn't do that.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Like you said he never got proof one way or another. It’s not even just this on why I want nothing to do with him. Yeah I’m 99.9% he did SOMETHING to that buck but I don’t have proof either. Once I sat back and looked at the whole ordeal from the start it was just one thing after another and worse and worse. This is supposed to be something that is fun and I love to do, I cull goats that get my blood boiling why not buyers as well?


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Glad it's (hopefully) over with and sorry it happened in the first place. I think that the mere fact that he wants to buy another of your supposedly "buck sans nuts", proves that he did something he regrets and is trying to offset the cost. Or he's probably hoping he can flip another goat, if he actually did get the price he was asking for.



Jessica84 said:


> This is supposed to be something that is fun and I love to do, I cull goats that get my blood boiling why not buyers as well?


Very good point.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I hear ya.


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