# Getting close?



## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

Does this mean she is getting close? I don't have an exact due date on this one, but it's within the next week or so. She was in with the buck for 3 weeks. Should I move her to a kidding pen? I usually know the due dates so I don't have to play a guessing game...


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

That looks like imminent labor to me. In my experience with pygmy does giving birth, ANY goop means babies within 6-12 hours. I'd definitely keep a close eye on her, as that is a lot of goo. It looks like the mucus plug, and it should start turning amber/get stringier in an hour or so (so about now) as she gets closer. Her udder looks pretty full as well, and it may fill up more in the next few hours. Is she separating from the other goats? You should put her in the kidding pen as a better safe than sorry precaution. Good luck and I'm thinking pink for you  (unless you don't want pink, in which case I'm not.)


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> That looks like imminent labor to me. In my experience with pygmy does giving birth, ANY goop means babies within 6-12 hours. I'd definitely keep a close eye on her, as that is a lot of goo. It looks like the mucus plug, and it should start turning amber/get stringier in an hour or so (so about now) as she gets closer. Her udder looks pretty full as well, and it may fill up more in the next few hours. Is she separating from the other goats? You should put her in the kidding pen as a better safe than sorry precaution. Good luck and I'm thinking pink for you  (unless you don't want pink, in which case I'm not.)


I thought so  and yes I'm thinking pink! We have her in our garage now with a live video camera on her.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Good luck! (Pink pink pink pink pink) Have you kidded many pygmy goats on your own? I know you have a couple of younger goats in your herd name ... It's always super exciting to me, even after dealing with tons of good and bad kiddings.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> Good luck! (Pink pink pink pink pink) Have you kidded many pygmy goats on your own? I know you have a couple of younger goats in your herd name ... It's always super exciting to me, even after dealing with tons of good and bad kiddings.


So far we haven't had to assist any (knock on wood) we had our first kids born March last year. I'm not really worried too much about kidding problems with this doe. She has amazing kidding lines  her dam had 21 registered kids and some unregistered all were unassisted.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

That's amazing! Most of my goats come from so-so kidding lines (hence the 'bad kiddings'). I don't think there are many - if any - +'s in their pedigrees. I prefer to be there for all kiddings, though, just in case.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> That's amazing! Most of my goats come from so-so kidding lines (hence the 'bad kiddings'). I don't think there are many - if any - +'s in their pedigrees. I prefer to be there for all kiddings, though, just in case.


I was told this doe will not kid if you are watching her  she will wait until your not around or watching. She has 6 kids herself so she only needs 4 more..Her dam was 12 years old and still having kids! This doe is 6.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

Her dam is Possum Hollow Luci-Lu+ , Luci is well known around this area.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Does it count if you go in there and stand with your back to her? 

I've never heard of Luci... I can't think of any well-known does around here off the top of my head, much less well-known does with over 21 kids. Is she still being bred or is she retired?


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

First baby is on its way


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

The most exciting moment... Gender? How many do you think she has?


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

Lost it ;( HUGE single doe


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Oh I'm sorry  Is momma goat ok? The big ones are the worst because there's only so much you can do


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

Mama is ok... Couldn't get her out in time, her legs were positioned backwards.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

It's hard since is sounds like there wasn't much room, especially if the baby was big  At least mama goat is fine... I'd suggest giving her some penicillin since it sounds like it was a rough birth. Just out of curiosity... did you pop the knee forwards or did you just pull?


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> It's hard since is sounds like there wasn't much room, especially if the baby was big  At least mama goat is fine... I'd suggest giving her some penicillin since it sounds like it was a rough birth. Just out of curiosity... did you pop the knee forwards or did you just pull?


We had a friend of ours and the vet come out. She pulled the front leg first then got the rest out. The vet had given her some penicillin.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Hopefully you can get her bred again, although I would give her some time off from kidding... If you're breeding a lot, I'd also suggest learning some basic assisting skills from asking other breeders and helping when the vet is there. Although in this case it sounds like there wouldn't have been much you could've done even if you knew how


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> Hopefully you can get her bred again, although I would give her some time off from kidding... If you're breeding a lot, I'd also suggest learning some basic assisting skills from asking other breeders and helping when the vet is there. Although in this case it sounds like there wouldn't have been much you could've done even if you knew how


I don't think there would have been much we could have done either... It was stuck in there pretty good  I'm definitely not feeding grain to my bred does now... She is still so fat and I had her cut back on grain because I was afraid of this exact situation. I don't know if it would have helped much since the kid was positioned so weird, but it sure wouldn't of hurt for her to not be so fat.


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

It could've been worse if the kid was a buck kid, as they're generally a bit bigger... I lost a huge single buck kid once because I was too afraid to pull him. The doe belonged to a friend, and when my friend got there, he just gently pulled the kid out - he didn't even need to get a leg. Of course, it was stillborn, and I felt awful, because it HAD been alive and shaking its head trying to breathe, but I'd been too afraid that I would hurt it or the doe if someone more experienced wasn't here. Then it always turns into a bunch of could've-should've-would'ves, which doesn't help at all; it just makes you feel worse. 

While these experiences are bad, they're really helpful in teaching us what to do and what not to do, and in the long term end up becoming something positive, so next time you'll better know what to do :hug:


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

janecb said:


> It could've been worse if the kid was a buck kid, as they're generally a bit bigger... I lost a huge single buck kid once because I was too afraid to pull him. The doe belonged to a friend, and when my friend got there, he just gently pulled the kid out - he didn't even need to get a leg. Of course, it was stillborn, and I felt awful, because it HAD been alive and shaking its head trying to breathe, but I'd been too afraid that I would hurt it or the doe if someone more experienced wasn't here. Then it always turns into a bunch of could've-should've-would'ves, which doesn't help at all; it just makes you feel worse.
> 
> While these experiences are bad, they're really helpful in teaching us what to do and what not to do, and in the long term end up becoming something positive, so next time you'll better know what to do :hug:


That's exactly what just happened  I was too afraid to pull, I thought I would break its neck. She had to pull with quite a bit of force to get her out. I might have been able to get it out if I could have found a leg...


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

The trick I learned from my vet to find a leg is to gently pull the head down, out, and to the left to make more room on the right. Then you can follow the neck with your right fingers to the shoulder and down to the elbow to pop the knee forwards. Sometimes, if the leg is super far back, you can pop it forwards using the armpit by hooking your finger a little less than an inch away from the crook and gently pulling - although that takes a bit more hand dexterity and lower arm strength. It sounds fairly simple in writing, but often it isn't so clear-cut. 

Just remember, goat births can get a LOT worse - I still have nightmares about the first birth I was called in to help at, mostly due to the embryotomy, and mix of mummified kids and 8 lb kids. The doe had been in labor for almost 2 days, and then went septic for a few weeks afterwards. 

Nothing you did was wrong, or incorrect, and it wasn't your fault the kid died. It was a series of bad coincidences that didn't end well, and you wouldn't have been able to change any of it even if you knew how to. I'm sure your bad luck has been used up for the season, and everything else will go smoothly :hug:


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

Sorry you lost her glad momma goat is ok for you. Sometimes they are too big to do anything but pull and hope by some miracle both mom and baby do ok.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)




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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Oh my god, that is HUGE! And with a big belly band... I'm so sorry


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks... We're going to breed her back to the same buck, but this time I'm giving her 0 grain, unless she absolutely needs it. I would rather have a smaller baby and work on getting the dam's condition back up than have her be overweight and have this problem


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## janecb (Sep 23, 2014)

Be careful what you wish for... tiny babies are scary since they're much more frail than big ones. I'd suggest giving SOME grain when she's bred again, but not much. Did she prolapse at all during her pregnancy? Hopefully when you breed her again you'll get some nice, manageable twin does... with gorgeous belly bands to boot


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

How much grain did you feed? I found that alfalfa pellets are more important than grain during late pregnancy, for both the fetus and mom. Raspberry leaves are known to help the kidding process...

Anyways I'm so sorry for your loss!


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

We have a scooper that measures out to a lbs. I think I calculated that that is 4 cups. We gave one of those for 3 goats twice a day. It was a sweet feed and I've heard the molasses can make them gain weight, so my plan now is to use a small amount of noble goat and slowly decrease the amount as they get closer to kidding. I've heard that works best since the kids grow the most in the last month. They were getting alfalfa... My plan for the hay is to find some grass hay and switch to grass hay as they get closer to kidding.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I would actually start with a small amount to begin with, and slowly increase the amount as kidding gets closer. I've successfully fed sweet feed to pregnant does for years, the molasses wards off ketosis. High amounts of protein will overgrow the fetus.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Ooohhhhhh. I'm so sorry you lost her. :-(


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