# Newborn toung hanging out



## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

Out alpine just had two kids. One has it's tounge hanging out the side of it's mouth.



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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is the kid breathing and moving around?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How are things.


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

Well she only lasted about 1/2 hour before expiring. Now, correct me if I am wrong, her tounge was hanging our as I said and it sounded as if sh had a stomach full of fluid. I brought her in, her mother abanded her, she knew sonething was wrong.

After she expired, as I was carrying her out, it looked like amniotic fluid, it was dripping from her mouth. Is it possible that it took her mother so long to have the first one that the second on swallowed to much fluid? Once the first came the second followed within minutes.



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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, she drowned from the fluid in her lungs. In those cases you can hold the kid upside down and the fluid will drain out, with others, you may need to swing upside, like a swaying back and forth but gently, be careful not to snap the neck. Just a gentle swing.

You can also get a Bulb Syringe Aspirator linked below.
http://www.amazon.com/DMI-Bulb-Syri...TF8&qid=1391186268&sr=8-2&keywords=ear+sucker

With the bulb, you will push in the bulb making the air go out of it and insert it into the back of the mouth, then release the bulb and you will hear a sucking sound, it is sucking out that mucus, remove from the mouth, then squeeze out the mucus from the bulb then repeat, until the kid is breathing better and not raspy. The kid will cough, which is good to try to get it out too. Also do the nostrils the same way.

Kids can be saved this way, I am sorry you were not aware of it, but you will know if it happens again.

Sorry for your loss


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

Sad story sorry for you lose.. 
So when kids first come out is it a good idea to rub them upside down in the first place or just if you notice they are having a hard time breathing.. Especially if you don't have the bulb sucker??


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Mikesell04 said:


> Sad story sorry for you lose..
> So when kids first come out is it a good idea to rub them upside down in the first place or just if you notice they are having a hard time breathing.. Especially if you don't have the bulb sucker??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


If you think they have fluid in them or having a hard time breathing. You can hold both legs in one hand and place your other hand on the neck and gently swing them back and fourth. You can also buy a turkey baster to suck out fluid from their mouth.

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Mikesell04 said:


> So when kids first come out is it a good idea to rub them upside down in the first place or just if you notice they are having a hard time breathing.. Especially if you don't have the bulb sucker??


You can hear the rattling if they have aspirated fluid. Anytime the first kid does not arrive in short order, I check the rest of them for fluid in their lungs. As Pam said, either turn them upside down or you can also use a piece of straw to tickle the inside of their nose. When they start sneezing, quickly tip upside down. The sneezing combined with gravity will clear the fluid. Always keep an eye on them because fluid in the lungs can cause pneumonia. If they start wheezing or develop labored breathing I treat with 1/2 cc of Nuflor.


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

Ok thanks so much!! I'm a first time goat mama and so are my goats.. I want to make sure I I have all the info I can get..


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your very welcome, we are here to help.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> You can hear the rattling if they have aspirated fluid. Anytime the first kid does not arrive in short order, I check the rest of them for fluid in their lungs. As Pam said, either turn them upside down or you can also use a piece of straw to tickle the inside of their nose. When they start sneezing, quickly tip upside down. The sneezing combined with gravity will clear the fluid. Always keep an eye on them because fluid in the lungs can cause pneumonia. If they start wheezing or develop labored breathing I treat with 1/2 cc of Nuflor.


How can you tell if a goat has pneumonia??

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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Also keep mind that kids born hind legs first may need help removing fluids, because the cord breaks before their heads are out, and they'll try to breath and get fluid in their lungs.....


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

canyontrailgoats said:


> Also keep mind that kids born hind legs first may need help removing fluids, because the cord breaks before their heads are out, and they'll try to breath and get fluid in their lungs.....


Ok thank you!! I have also been watching YouTube videos on how to help if they have trouble birthing.. That scares the crud outta me!! Praying they all have easy delivery!!

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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> You can hear the rattling if they have aspirated fluid. Anytime the first kid does not arrive in short order, I check the rest of them for fluid in their lungs. As Pam said, either turn them upside down or you can also use a piece of straw to tickle the inside of their nose. When they start sneezing, quickly tip upside down. The sneezing combined with gravity will clear the fluid. Always keep an eye on them because fluid in the lungs can cause pneumonia. If they start wheezing or develop labored breathing I treat with 1/2 cc of Nuflor.


This idea caught my eye. I was wondering if you could hold them upside down, tickle than swing? So as not to miss the sneeze.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hold them upside down and pat their side.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

4seasonsfarm said:


> How can you tell if a goat has pneumonia??
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


They will isolate, stand hunched up with tail tucked and head drooping, go off feed, their eyes will be dull and listless, they usually will have heavy, rapid, or labored breathing, usually a wet, congested sounding cough, may be sneezing, may have opaque white or green discharge from the nostrils, flanks may heave depending on how far the pneumonia has progressed, temperature will usually but not always be elevated.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Mikesell04 said:


> Ok thank you!! I have also been watching YouTube videos on how to help if they have trouble birthing.. That scares the crud outta me!! Praying they all have easy delivery!!


Generally speaking, when the kids hips start to clear the mother's body the cord is going to catch on her pelvis rim and break. The hips are the only possible problem area - once they are clear you can snatch that kid out in about .01 seconds. If I've got a backwards or breech kid I get a good grip on those back legs, pull him out and lift him up so he is hanging upside down for a few minutes to let any fluid drain. Be advised - they are slippery little suckers, so make sure you've got a good grip above the fetlocks.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

bethnedbitt said:


> This idea caught my eye. I was wondering if you could hold them upside down, tickle than swing? So as not to miss the sneeze.
> 
> Sent from my PhydeuxROM using Goat Forum mobile app


If you've got someone to tickle while you hold. It's very difficult to hold and tickle, though.


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## Mikesell04 (Jan 26, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> Generally speaking, when the kids hips start to clear the mother's body the cord is going to catch on her pelvis rim and break. The hips are the only possible problem area - once they are clear you can snatch that kid out in about .01 seconds. If I've got a backwards or breech kid I get a good grip on those back legs, pull him out and lift him up so he is hanging upside down for a few minutes to let any fluid drain. Be advised - they are slippery little suckers, so make sure you've got a good grip above the fetlocks.


Ok thanks!! Finger crossed everyone is in the correct position.. The videos seem so traumatic.. And seem to really hurt the mom!! Yikes!!! I don't know if I could do it?? If it came down to a have to situation I will tho..

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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> They will isolate, stand hunched up with tail tucked and head drooping, go off feed, their eyes will be dull and listless, they usually will have heavy, rapid, or labored breathing, usually a wet, congested sounding cough, may be sneezing, may have opaque white or green discharge from the nostrils, flanks may heave depending on how far the pneumonia has progressed, temperature will usually but not always be elevated.


Can older goats get pneumonia too?? Cause I have one goat who has a rattle kinda sound when she breathes.

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Absolutely! Pneumonia is usually brought on by wild weather temperature changes which stress the goats and compromise their immune systems. Other causes of pneumonia is ammonia build up under sheds which irritates their lungs, and dust can also irritate lungs causing pneumonia. In my area fall is prime pneumonia weather because we are still 60's or 70's during the daytime, but drop down to 30's and 40's at night. Rattly breathing is another indicator of possible pneumonia that I forgot to mention - sorry.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Oh no your fine!! Can pneumonia kill a goat?? And how can you get rid of it??


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Yes, it can and usually will if not treated. Antibiotics such as Nuflor or Draxxin will usually take care of it. Nuflor is 3 cc's/100 lbs SQ or 6 cc's/100 lbs IM every day for 5 days. Draxxin is 1 cc/100 lbs SQ and repeat in 7 days. Naxcel is also used for pneumonia and is labeled for goats (neither Nuflor nor Draxxin are). DO NOT go by the dosage or days listed on the bottle, though, as it is insufficient. Naxcel must be given at the rate of 5-6 cc's/100 lbs IM for 5 days to be effective.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Can you get these meds at tractor supply or do you have to get them from a vet??


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Nuflor, Draxxin, and Naxcel are all prescription meds and can only be purchased from a licensed veterinarian. Don't make the mistake of trying to treat an advanced case of pneumonia with PenG, long-acting penicillin, LA200, or Biomycin. Unless you catch it very early - I'm talking the off feed, something is not right and it's pneumonia season early stage - they will not knock it out. They have been around too long, and there are too many resistant strains of pneumonia out there.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Ok thank you  how fast can pneumonia kill a goat??


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

I just went out and checked her this morning. She doesn't have the rattling breathing unless she starts to look for food on the ground.


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

Well thre twin is weak today, the one that came out stro.g. he was up and bouncing about until this morning. I brought him inside, he won't take a bottle and is getting worse. I gave him a b complex shot but is getting worse. I don't hear any raspy...help!
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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you know if he has been nursing? Did you milk mom and make sure she has milk? What is his temp?


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

His mom has plenty of milk, and is a easy milker. Nice soft teats. Never had any trouble with others. Once she has triplets and had to bottle feed one she raised the othet two just fine.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you do give extra copper and selenium to your does? Do they get a good loose goat mineral? Did you give the kid any selenium? What is his temp? What are the temps like in your area?

Something is going on but it is hard to say. Can't seem to fit the pieces together.


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> Do you do give extra copper and selenium to your does? Do they get a good loose goat mineral? Did you give the kid any selenium? What is his temp? What are the temps like in your area?
> 
> Something is going on but it is hard to say. Can't seem to fit the pieces together.


We have no selium, we give the mothers plenty of minerals. The temp last night hit 35, but we are un the 50s during the day now. We had colder snaps but the last one hit the morning he was born. Now we are looking at high 50 during the day and low 35-40 at night

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

4seasonsfarm said:


> Ok thank you  how fast can pneumonia kill a goat??
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


Anywhere from several hours to several days depending on the type. Pneumonia can be viral or bacterial. From what I've read and heard, the bacterial can kill pretty quickly.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Well she looks like she is doin well except for the breathing. She is eating fine but she has had it since yesterday. Can pneumonia go away by itself??


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

No, pneumonia won't go away by itself. Is she sneezing or shaking her head? Have you checked her for lung worms? 

Home lung worm test courtesy of goathiker - wrap some poop berries in a square piece of gauze, twist tight and float in water a few hours or overnight. If there are lungworms they will float in the water.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

bethnedbitt said:


> We have no selium, we give the mothers plenty of minerals. The temp last night hit 35, but we are un the 50s during the day now. We had colder snaps but the last one hit the morning he was born. Now we are looking at high 50 during the day and low 35-40 at night
> 
> Sent from my PhydeuxROM using Goat Forum mobile app


If you live in a selenium deficient area, he may be selenium deficient. Selenium doesn't transfer from mom to kid all that well. Plus even if you give a good loose goat mineral, you may still need to supplement copper and selenium. Your does may be selenium deficient as well.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

She sneezes every once in a while, but as far as I know she isn't shaking her head. I have not checked her for lung worms but a gave the whole herd dewormer yesterday.


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

Well i did a search and believe it was possibly a need for selium.

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/WMD.html

She showed all these signs.

For years we have let the goats graze until they were about to bust, this year not so much. Unless mineral salt, hay and grain feed is enough?

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What do mean by mineral salt? If it is a block then that isn't enough. Even grazing isn't enough when your soil is deficient. You need a good loose goat mineral like Sweetlix Meatmaker 16:8, ADM Dairy or Meat goat minerals, Manna Pro Goat Mineral or Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Mineral is good. There are others but that is what I know.

Even with giving these minerals, you still may need to copper bolus and give supplemental selenium. If you don't have a vet, you can get selenium/E gel but you will have to give it more often since it is oral.

My goats have Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Mineral, kelp and a Redmond salt rock and I still have to copper bolus at least twice a year and give BoSe (selenium) shots at least twice a year.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> Nuflor, Draxxin, and Naxcel are all prescription meds and can only be purchased from a licensed veterinarian. Don't make the mistake of trying to treat an advanced case of pneumonia with PenG, long-acting penicillin, LA200, or Biomycin. Unless you catch it very early - I'm talking the off feed, something is not right and it's pneumonia season early stage - they will not knock it out. They have been around too long, and there are too many resistant strains of pneumonia out there.


Can you give a goat with pneumonia penicillin that isn't long- lasting??

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Penicillin doesn't work on pneumonia as well as Tylan 200. But yes you could give the regular. Just need to give it twice a day.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

But will penicillin help if I give it to them?? Cause I don't want to give it to her if it's not gonna help her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I use Draxxin when I have upper respiratory problems so I don't know for sure. I know other people have used it but don't know how successful it was.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> I use Draxxin when I have upper respiratory problems so I don't know for sure. I know other people have used it but don't know how successful it was.


My vet recommended Draxxin but she isn't open today unless it's an emergency. She recommended penicillin and this other long named med they are both over the counter meds. I was just trying to find a medicine that I can use until I can get the meds from my vet.

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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> What do mean by mineral salt? If it is a block then that isn't enough. Even grazing isn't enough when your soil is deficient. You need a good loose goat mineral like Sweetlix Meatmaker 16:8, ADM Dairy or Meat goat minerals, Manna Pro Goat Mineral or Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Mineral is good. There are others but that is what I know.
> 
> Even with giving these minerals, you still may need to copper bolus and give supplemental selenium. If you don't have a vet, you can get selenium/E gel but you will have to give it more often since it is oral.
> 
> My goats have Cargill Right Now Onyx Cattle Mineral, kelp and a Redmond salt rock and I still have to copper bolus at least twice a year and give BoSe (selenium) shots at least twice a year.


Its a loose mineral salt, specifically for milk goats. It has copper but not much. We have good soil, alabama is known for its rich soil. I forget the story sonething about some guy who came down here and realized alabama's soil was rich for growing.

We hadn't let them graze enough because a neighbor was complaining about them wandering in his pasture. We have been putting up a fence and figured once that was done we could set them free. In the mean time we assumed that the mineral salt, feed and hay would be enough until then. Now we have two kids, from seperate mothers, that are going from strong to weak within 48 hours.

It's baffleing since this never happened before. Especially since these two mother's were great. Never lost a kid and never had to milk them out. We know one was defentally eatting but he is weak and won't eat now.

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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

So sad;( I learned a lot from this thread.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Have you tried tube feeding them?? Personally I would tube feed them and bring them inside until they get better. I hope your kids get feeling better.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

4seasonsfarm said:


> But will penicillin help if I give it to them?? Cause I don't want to give it to her if it's not gonna help her.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


PenG is pretty much useless for anything except pink-eye and foot rot. I don't even keep it around. Pen G Benzathine + Pen G Procaine (that will be on the label, and it is long-acting penicillin) will knock out pneumonia IF you catch it early. I always have it on hand, and I always overdose it by 2-4 cc's depending on what the situation is. Could the other medication your vet recommended be Oxytetracycline?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

4seasonsfarm said:


> Can you give a goat with pneumonia penicillin that isn't long- lasting??
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


You can, but there isn't much point to it. PenG (short acting) has been around too long for it to be effective on much of anything. I'm 55 years old and PenG was the 'miracle' drug for livestock when I was kid! Couple that with a goats metabolism and it is passed out of their system before it has a chance to do much of anything. Plus you have to give PenG twice a day, whereas other antibiotics only need to be given once a day unless it is Draxxin which only has to be given twice, 7 days apart.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

GoatCrazy said:


> PenG is pretty much useless for anything except pink-eye and foot rot. I don't even keep it around. Pen G Benzathine + Pen G Procaine (that will be on the label, and it is long-acting penicillin) will knock out pneumonia IF you catch it early. I always have it on hand, and I always overdose it by 2-4 cc's depending on what the situation is. Could the other medication your vet recommended be Oxytetracycline?


Yes it was oxytetracycline!! I bought some penicillin non long lasting earlier today. That is what the vet told me I could get. But I can try it and see if it will work.

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

PenG is better than nothing in a pinch, but that's about all I can say about it. :laugh: Oxytetracycline is sold under the brand names of LA200 and Biomycin - should you decide to add it to your medicine cabinet, get the Biomycin because it has a different carrier than LA200 and stings less. The benefit of Biomycin is that it treats mycoplasma types of pneumonia that other antibiotics won't touch. The only other antibiotic I know of that also treats mycoplasma pneumonia is Nuflor.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Oh I know what la200 is I've given that to my goats before 


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## bethnedbitt (Jan 27, 2014)

How does one go about tube feeding.

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you do a search here, someone posted a video on how to tube feed.


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah also you can look up videos on YouTube.


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