# Inducing a heat with just Lutalyse and PG 600



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

I still have two does that are not bred yet and one of them has had two 21 day periods (42 days) without coming in to heat. ??? I don't know what that is about. I know she is not pregnant because we have pregnancy tested her twice. 

So my question is, does anyone have any ideas of how to induce heat with just Lutalyse and PG 600? I have both, but no CIDR's.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Anyone know if this would work?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I have done just lutalyse. Gave the shot and they cycled about 14 days later. I will say that all the girls got pregnant but won't guarantee anything.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

In your case I would try CIDRs.


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

I want to say yes, it would work... Lacie (Little-Bits-and-Pieces) should know


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I've read on giving lute to breed them (I want fall kids) but from what I gathered they will cycle but unless they just so happen to have a egg there to drop then no babies


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I wonder if you did give lute if that would jump start a good heat after the one that the lute created? (Make sense?)


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

> Day 1: 3cc lute
> Day 7: 1cc cystorelin
> Day 14: 3cc lute
> Day 17: 1cc cystorelin and breed.*
> ...





> So what you're going to want to do is give the lute, she should be in heat in about 36hrs from the shot. When she is in standing heat, let the buck breed her a couple times, pull her out of the pen, or put the buck back, and give her 1cc of the cystorelin (you can leave her with the buck if you want) and give the other cc 24hrs from the last one.
> Both shots need to be deep IM


Both of the methods above should bring her into heat and make her ovulate.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Ok thanks. Yeah, I don't want to give just lute as she may not ovulate. I don't have cystorelin... I think PG-600 would do the trick, but not sure when to give it.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I had a cystic doe who wouldn't settle.. Had normal heats and all.. My vet gave me lute and cysterellion(sp?) and I gave her the lute and 12? Hrs later the cysterellion.. And she came into heat a few days later and settled.  
I've never used the PG-600 though.. Maybe if you just got a dose of the cysterellion from your vet? Much cheaper then the PG-600 I would imagine...


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Crossroads Boers said:


> I think PG-600 would do the trick, but not sure when to give it.


Yeah, Lacie would know


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Crossroads Boers said:


> I still have two does that are not bred yet and one of them has had two 21 day periods (42 days) without coming in to heat. ??? I don't know what that is about. I know she is not pregnant because we have pregnancy tested her twice. So my question is, does anyone have any ideas of how to induce heat with just Lutalyse and PG 600? I have both, but no CIDR's.


This is weird. How long did they stay in heat, when they did come in heat (approximate hours)? Do they have good contact with a stinky buck still? Nothing changed there?

I have had does that didn't seem to be coming in heat, so I gave a shot of lutalyse. Sometimes they come in heat and if they do, they conceive just fine and without any other drug. (I believe the heat from one shot of Lute is successful more often than what people claim). If they don't come in heat, I figure they aren't actively cycling yet. I have had does that seem to "get stuck" in heat and stay in heat for like four days or so instead of the normal 36-48 hours. With does like this I give cystorellin *after* I AI or breed. Immediately after. The PG600 *might* serve the same function. The PG600 scares me a little as it can cause quads or quints. Don't give more that 1.5ccs.

If you are still POSITIVE these does aren't bred, I would give a shot of Lute, if they come in heat put them in with the buck and give your shot of PG600 as soon as you see a cover and leave the buck in with them until they are clear out of heat. If either doe was the type that got "stuck" in heat previously, I would use the cystorellin when they bred. With a live buck, this *should* be easy.

I have both cystorellin and CIDRs if you need me to send either. The CIDRs would be called for *if* they never came in heat from the Lute shot.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Adding to my long post...

In a cycling doe, Lute can bring them into heat by lysing the CL which is producing progesterone that is keeping them out of heat or *pregnant*. If the doe doesn't have an active CL, the Lute does nothing.

The PG600 won't make them come in heat. It theoretically can induce ovulation, but they should be able to ovulate without it. I believe the PG600 has been adopted more for AI as you want that doe to ovulate within 12 hours of the AI.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks Tim. That helps a lot. We found out that Dandi has a uterine infection,    so she's not bred because of that. 3 trips to the vet later we think she's clear and ready to breed. She's in heat now but we will wait to breed her until she's definitely healed. A new buck-friend from Terry B. will be on lease here starting Saturday... so we are also waiting for him. The buck we have here now is 10 months old and very bucky... 

We are absolutely positive that Dazzle is not bred. The last heat (now 45-ish days ago) she had was odd. We never saw discharge but the buck was interested and I think she might have been flagging. She wanted nothing to do with the buck though. We brought her over to Danette's thinking she could be AI-d and decided it would be too difficult on her. So we put her back in with the buck when we got home and she still wouldn't stand for him. We hoped she got bred overnight but never saw it happen. That was the last heat we saw and she was cycling normally before that. She was covered by a senior buck at one point but he had hip issues and didn't breed a couple of our does, so I was not blaming that neg. preg test on Dazzle.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

And thanks for the offer on sending CIDR's/cystorelin. Danette (very close by) has CIDR's we can buy from her... and I bet our vet has cystorelin.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Victoria, in your exact case, they may be having false pregnancies. False pregs show up as negative pregnancies on the blood tests.
So for you, the protocol I would use, it Lute them, wait for them to expel everything if they are going to, then lute 14 days later, and give the 1cc of cystorelin when they are being bred, then give another cc 24 hours later. The cystorelin will make SURE that they ovulate.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I wouldn't give Dandi anything. Let her come in naturally.

I probably would give Dazzle a shot of Lute and see what happens. I would maybe separate her from the buck for a few days and then give the shot. Then tease her with the buck twice a day instead of letting them live together. That way you can better see what she's up to. Good luck. 
These things can be so frustrating. I'm waiting to see if Jolene comes back in heat on Sunday. It will be her third try to Packin' Heat, who has been having trouble with him being short and her being extra tall.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Whoops, I didn't see the infection part! Glad you got her cleared up, yes, I agree with Tim, let her come in naturally. 
I would proceed with the shots for Dazzle though.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Did you also check to see if Dazzle had a infection?? I think you had said that you used the cidrs on both of the does to AI and from what all I've heard it seems like a common thing to have a infection after. 


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

We haven't used CIDR'S on either of them. Dandi was having discharge for over a week and I finally realized that it stunk... so we brought her right in to the vet. Dazzle has no discharge. I don't think she has an infection. I have no idea how Dandi got the infection but the vet thinks it was from a buck. Who knows. I just hope she's still fertile....


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh ok I thought you tried to AI both them.... Your getting to many goats to keep track lol


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

lol.  Nope we just had two senior does AI-d and only one was successful. It was the Chicken on a Chain AI that didn't take.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

This whole breeding season has been rather frustrating... but on the bright side we did get some really exciting breedings done and most of the herd has tested positive for pregnancy by now. Just these last two that really need to get bred. Especially Dandi... she'll be 2 in a month. 

I'll probably go ahead and give Dazzle a lute shot tomorrow. And separate her from the buck. That sounds like a good idea at this point until she's ready to breed.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Sorry you've been having such a hard time. I've been having a run getting mine settled too. But my issues are most likely buck related.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Did Dazzle come in heat?


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Nope.  Nothing yet. I think it's been 4 days since the lute shot. 3 or 4. I talked to the vet several days ago and he had no idea what PG-600 was!?! So didn't get any help there.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Any time I have used lute, it has taken 12 to 15 days for them to come into heat.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Whoa.... really?? That's good to know.  It usually only takes 2 or 3 days here.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

My doe I have it to took about a week I want to say... But my vet told me it could take up to two or three weeks..


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

If I had a doe that I gave lutalyse to and she didn't come in heat for two-three weeks, I would be saying the shot didn't work and she came in on her own. Which I have had happen, but not in November. 

Do your vets have any ideas, Victoria?


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

The vet said she should come in heat within 5 days of the lute shot. I think it's been 5 days and nothing from her... We were just at the vet again today with Dandi but I forgot to mention anything about Dazzle's situation to him. I talked to him on the phone several days ago but I had just given the lute shot at that point so didn't have much to talk about then as I was expecting her to come in heat... I was calling to ask him about PG-600 and he didn't know what that was. After I explained what it was he suggested we not use it.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree, if they don't come back in within the 36hrs, it didn't work. You might not have gotten it deep enough in the muscle. I had that happen last year. She was bred by the wrong buck, I wormed her with valbazen 13 days after it happened because I was doing the routine fall wormings, and then gave her lute the next day, she had dark discharge like she was aborting on her own (or from the wormer). She didn't come in with the first lute shot, waited it out 3 weeks... still didn't come in, so I luted her again and she came in heat right on the money.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

So, should I give another shot right away? Or wait?


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

Hi Victoria - Hey All -
I know it's been a LONG LONG time.
Seems I jump on during the winter months.

I use lute a lot.
I've been very successful with inducing heats and settling the girls with 
2cc lute - 11 days - 2cc lute - put in with boys and typically bred on day 14.

It's the same protocol if using cidrs.
I don't use anything else.

HTH,

Victoria - who is your avatar pic of? Pretty


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

On day 10-11 from the first shot, I'd give her another one.

Whoops, looks like Elizabeth's got you covered on that! For whatever reason I didn't see her post until after I posted


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Well, If Dazzle was my doe, I would give another shot on day 11 like a couple have suggested I guess. If she hadn't already come in heat. What else can you do? I'm pretty sure though, that when most people are advocating this two shot technique, the doe came in heat on *both* shots. 

Don't you know a famous dairy goat lady near you Victoria? I forget her name. I would consider calling her and see what she thinks.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Ok, thanks all. I'll give her another shot on day 11. 

Hey Elizabeth. Nice to hear from you!  Do your does ever come in heat after you give the first shot? Mine sure do. Except this doe... I don't use lute very often but I have several times before and they have always come in heat within 2 or 3 days of the shot. 

Pat Hendrickson lives about 30 minutes from us. I might call her if the 11 day re-try thing doesn't work.


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

LilBleatsFarm said:


> Victoria - who is your avatar pic of? Pretty


Thanks.  That is Capriole's Precariously Pompous. We call her Poppy.  She's been a great little show doe.


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## 8566 (Jul 18, 2012)

I had one this year get the first shot and not come into heat. She was a FF. Gave the 2nd at day 11 and stuck her in with the boy and she settled.

I do not breed on the first shot because they might not drop an egg. The first shot is to synch them and the second is for breeding. That's the protocol around our area. 

I use lute to abort if needed, bring on heats, and to induce labor.

HTH,


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Ok, that makes sense.  Thanks!


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Dazzle had some white and some clear discharge yesterday morning. No signs of heat though other than that. We put her in with the buck just to see if he thought she was in heat... and he showed no interest. Still nothing today either. She's not in with the buck anymore but she doesn't look or act in heat. Not sure what that discharge is about. I think it has been 10 days since the first lute shot, so I'm planning on giving her another shot tomorrow.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Awww I'm sorry she's being difficult  I hope after this next shot she breeds for you. You've had such a heck of a time this year huh 


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks Jessica.  Yeah, it's been an interesting season. 5 of the 7 breeding does are bred so I'm good with that.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Hey Crossroads, did the second shot bring your doe into heat? Did she settle?


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

No, it didn't work. We ended up using a CIDR and doing the whole AI protocol with that and it worked. Not sure if she took yet. I'm not sure what day she's on buy we might be getting close to day 30. ? I can send in a blood test after day 30.


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## BoulderOaks (Sep 24, 2014)

Did she end up settling?


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## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

Yep! Triplets.


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