# Disbudders BEWARE!



## 4hmama (Jan 9, 2009)

Just got a letter from the WV Board of Veterinary Medicine...telling me to cease and desist my 'practicing veterinary medicine illegally in West Virginia'. What for you ask? I had a page on my website where I offered to help with disbudding. There are NO vets in my county that disbud, and apparently helping disbud anyone's animals BUT your own is 'practicing veterinary medicine illegally in WV'. Only a $500-$1000 fine with no more than 6 months jail time. Doesn't matter if you charge a fee or not...you simply can't help your neighbor. I asked how my website came to their attention, and was told that a letter was recieved anonymously. I have to submit a letter stating that I was unaware that disbudding anyone else's animals is illegal (which I was unaware of), and that I will not disbud any animals other than my own. Letter drafted. BTW - wethering, tattooing, and all that other stuff falls under this catagory too...so look out! Guess I must have really PO'ed someone to have them turn me in for just trying to help...no to worry though...your point is taken! :veryangry: :veryangry:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

WOW...I can't blame you a bit for being steamed, I would be too!

Some people just don't get it do they? :hug:


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh my gosh. That is insane! I am going to do a little research on this for WA and see if this applies here too. What came to mind is all the ranchers around our area helping each other out, castrating calves...is that illegal too? 

I remember awhile back hearing that raw goats milk is illegal to sell in WA...I think it still is, but there were some people working on getting it legalized. Anyway, around that time I had a man email me asking if I had any raw milk for sale. I felt like I was being set up, honestly. Luckily, i've never sold any raw milk...or any milk in general, and I informed him that it is illegal to sell. Never heard back. 

That is really just crazy though that disbudding would be illegal and that someone "turned you in" for it...I would be fuming.


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## kannm (Mar 18, 2009)

I would guess the law exists to protect vet businesses. It is not to protect the animals or animal owners.


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## bleatinghearts (Feb 26, 2010)

Another example of how screwed up things are. I refuses to live in a world where I have to depend on someone to take care of me! Oh...I better just stop now before I get more frustrated.


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## TinyHoovesRanch (Jan 16, 2010)

OMG THATS CRAZY!!!

Hope its not like that here...

I actually told my vet about disbudding other peoples goats and he thought it was a great idea, they dont really do that there, they charge alot and said people wont pay that much, so having another option actually helps people and goats more...


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

That is really a shame that someone turned you in. I don't know what they think people are supposed to do. I have a friend who helps me with all kinds of things, and I pay her. I wouldn't be able to have the goats I have without help from someone. The wonderful vet doesn't have time and needs to be saved for the things we can't do, and the other vet (with the fancy clinic) charges an arm and a leg, his overhead is enormous. I am lucky to have vets who do goats, I know that, but we still need to do things ourselves. 

Seems like if they are going to enforce rules like that they need to be sure there are vets available to do the things they don't want you to do.

Jan


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

So what you do is "buy" animals for $1 and then the owner buys the animal back for what ever amount you usually charge. This way you are technically doing this to your own animals.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

^Clever!


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## 4hmama (Jan 9, 2009)

I actually have a call into a few more agencies...under exceptions, it states:

"(c) A person advising with respect to or performing acts which the board has prescribed by legislative rule as accepted livestock management practices;

(d) The owner of an animal, the owner's employees, or persons assisting the owner without any fee or compensation, caring for and treating the animal, except where the ownership of the animal was transferred for the purpose of circumventing the provisions of this article"

My questions is: In order to get 'out of trouble'...I am being told that I have to write a letter stating that I will not disbud for anyone other than myself. BUT - under section c, it talks about accepted livestock practices - which I can't find any info on, and under section d, it states that a person can assist an owner. In my pea-brain, this means if I get asked to help...I can, as long as I don't get compensated. 

Ashley - I like your idea, but I believe that section D squashes that theory....

I'll let you know what happens...I'm supposed to hear back from someone tomorrow.... 

Still smoldering.... :veryangry: :veryangry:


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## Coyote Night Acres (Dec 27, 2010)

Wow! This is really sad. Most vets won't even touch a goat, then you say disbud to the vets that will entertain you goats and they get this blank stare to them having no clue what your talking about. Really sad. If they are not going to teach this stuff in vet school or make it mandatory for older vets to keep updated on their schooling goats included then they should not be telling the goat savy people their business.


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## Lawanda (Jun 11, 2009)

Will they EVER stop with the perfectly RIDICULOUS laws in this country?!?!!


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## firelight27 (Apr 25, 2009)

Absolutely stupid. I get so angry with some of the laws in our country.... I have offered medical advice, castration tips, etc. I have a girl buying a bottle baby from me here soon and she is bringing back to my place to be castrated when he is big enough. I would hate to know that this is illegal...although it wouldn't stop me from doing it by any means. I would just deny it and get around the laws...such as the selling for a dollar and buying back thing if I were to seriously be hounded.


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## 4hmama (Jan 9, 2009)

On a quick review...Virginia and New Jersey have similar laws stating that you can ONLY treat your own animals...NOT someone elses. By definition, it looks like disbudding falls under the catagory of 'treatment'. Be forewarned...look at your laws before offering any services. AND - according the the person that I talked to...NOT taking compensation and ADDING a disclaimer stating that you are not a vet or associated with one, isn't enough to get you out of hot water. Simply don't have the service available in writing! I guess there is something to living life without internet and on the 'good 'ol boy' system.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

This is just crazy! Don't people have anything better to do?? Does the government not have better things to do then make up rediculous laws? Are you kidding me? Why not bust all the people commiting welfare fraud or something worse.My gosh what's this country coming to for crying out loud!! :?


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

Just look at some of the meds they have taken off the Vet Supply places. I liked the stuff that starts with a B. (can't think of the name) It is like LA200 but doesn't sting like LA200. They even pulled it from TSC. How much longer before they pull pre packaged shots. (dog, cat & horses) Or worse PenG. I have to pick up CDT and Blackleg this weekend. 

My vet knows I do my own shots and has no problem with it. I get him to do rabies and depending what else I'm there for he'll tell me what to pick up at TSC. Like when Danny severed his vein (horse) and he needed Pen, Doc told me how much to give and a bact spray to use. He also will prepare meds if I call in and tell him someone is sick. He doesn't make me drag everyone in. I think vets like him are few and far between. I told him he can never retire. :greengrin: 

Gina


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

How insane is that? I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. I guess we can not help our friends and neighbors.


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

Ridiculous. I hope the person who turned you in is sitting on his hands for the next CENTURY.
It just IRKS me so bad when people are scolded for doing something that MOST vets can't do, and helping out a fellow goat owner.
UGH!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I realize this is over a month old. I am new and happened upon it and just had to say, _*HUH*_!?!
I am not really at all surprised. A man in NJ was cited for lancing a cyst on his own dog. The only vet we have found who will handle goats at all is 40 minutes from us so we are pretty much on our own. As are the folks around us. Will we be harassed if we help each other?
I am in California and the laws about such things have gotten pretty crazy. We had to see the vet for B1.

Also, we bought two young Toggenburgs last year. They had been disbudded by a vet. They *both* got scurs!!
Rant over and I hope sanity returns for country folk some day.


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