# Overwhelmed by Breed Choice



## Clearly (Jun 2, 2015)

Hello! My name is Stephanie, I live north of Seattle and am about to embark on my small farm journey! (My apologies in advance for a wall of text, I just want to get this right!)

First, let me tell you that goats have been my favorite animal all my life. I even have a giant goat painting in my living room that's very goofy! I've lived on a large piece of land for a city, but as much as I've tried to make it an urban farm, it's no longer enough. I am home shopping now for my true dream: 2-5 acres for a real farm, in hopes of someday having self-sustainability and a stand at the Sunday farmers market.... Though one step at a time.

I have 3 books on goats that I've read cover to cover, but I've found that nothing beats advice from regular folk living it, and I've come here hoping you'll help a beginner in her first goat. I'm overwhelmed by the many breeds, and don't want to make the mistake of buying what looks right in a book, but ends up as a mistake; thus making me responsible for a life that I may not want.

I'm a beginner, so a good beginner goat is what I need. But I'm not an ignorant city girl. I was in 4-H with rabbits growing up, and have a fantastic backyard flock of chickens. My choices in chickens, due to limitations, have been of the designer variety that also produce, if that gives you any insight on my choice of breeds: araucanas, Buckeyes, Dominiques, Marans, Swedish Flowers, and very soon, the coveted Ayam Cemani (an indulgence).

A last bit about me: I'm a classically trained pianist who teaches out of my home, picking up gigs here and there, so I am home all the time. My partner is the workaholic able to support this dream of mine, so I'm not looking to make a living off of it all, just want to do this for the love of the lifestyle: the small extra cash for a stand at the market is just a bonus. 

What I'm looking for:
Hardy, beginner breed that I can learn from 
Okay in Pacific Northwest weather 
Milk for cheese, but not the insane amount I've read about where I'm milking a gallon a day (of course I will have it kidded, done the research!)
An assist on clearing land, as most property here is overgrown
A great, quirky, friendly personality
Not too large, but not too small

And lastly, because I'm sorta girly and like interesting things, I'd love a goat that has some sort of quirky quality. My chickens are rare with some sort of interesting trait; tufts, blue eggs, chocolate colored eggs, mousers, etc.

I hope this post doesn't come across poorly, I just really want to do right by my first girl, and because I over-research things, I've just become too overwhelmed by it all that suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, if you did, and your suggestions mean a lot to me. I hope to someday be the goat farmer I was born to be, and an active member of the community.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Clearly said:


> What I'm looking for: LaMancha obviously
> Hardy, beginner breed that I can learn from
> very sturdy, friendly, and easy to handle goats
> Okay in Pacific Northwest weather
> ...


They are medium sized goats, smaller than most other breeds

For the unique factor they have very tiny ears and come in cool colors.


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## Clearly (Jun 2, 2015)

Goathiker, thank you so much for the response and for enduring my long winded post! I'm reading about LaManchas as we speak in my goat encyclopedia here, and it is one I had tagged with a sticky flag!  

And such great formatting with your answers! I'm eager to hear other suggestions, but this one is high on the list, as I read they are higher in butterfat, for great cheese!

Thank you!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I love my mixed saanen/nigerian dwarfs! They too are funny, come in fun colors, give a medium amount of creamy delicious milk! Other medium mixed breeds are nubians mixed with nigerian dwarfs and even mini lamanchas!

My favorite goat, goat of my heart, love of my life is Myra. She had a nubian mother and a nigerian dwarf father. She is THE MOST amazing girl ever. Blind, but queen of the kid herd. Very very smart, relies on her other senses. Clears property for me if I've properly staged it for her to not poke her eyes. Gorgeous horns (I'm a horn lover, not a horn burner). 

My favorite to look at though are my ferals... and sadly I don't think you can get them where you are!

I'm a classically trained violinist! I can pound on the piano and make some sort of not quite so horrible sounds come out, but always have loved the piano, its so similar to the violin. 

My marans are my FAVORITE hens! My cuckoos lay these amazing chocolate brown eggs that are simply lovely. People pay more for my assortment of eggs because of the diversity. I have silkies, bantams, standard egg breeds, star spangled hamburgs (if you have the space these girls are super cool but flighty), and ferals. I have roosters aplenty. (I kind of feel like I'm singing a little mermaid song right now...) I've got hamburgs and standerds aplenty... you want rhode island reds? I want more!!!!!!!

My husband is the worker. I used to be, had a few businesses that did really well, but now at 35 I'm a retired goat herder and I love it. Welcome to the goat spot! Sounds like you are embarking on a very awesome adventure!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I should probably also point out that once you learn to milk, it only takes about 10 minutes to milk out a gallon.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

goathiker said:


> I should probably also point out that once you learn to milk, it only takes about 10 minutes to milk out a gallon.


very good point.

And if you cant use all your milk your chickens will!

I make "counter cheese" with older milk for my chickens and ducks and they live for the day that the wondrous cheese appears.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Are you talking about clabbered milk Dana? My birds love that as well.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Are you talking about clabbered milk Dana? My birds love that as well.


Yes, its locally called "counter cheese". I think clabbered is a regional term as well for the same cheese. Using wild yeast to culture the milk .


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, exactly...


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

Also- you might need two goats. A single goat is a lonely goat. My goat of choice is the nubian... They are so beautiful. Lamancha are also nice. Nigerians make wonderful milk, but not much of it and are hard (for me anyway) to milk. Maybe some of the mini breeds (mini mancha/mini nubian) might also work for you. I think they are in the .5-1 gallon range. My token mini mancha's milk tastes like half and half. Pretty awesome stuff.

And ayam cemani are just creepy looking. I could not sleep at night knowing those were in my coop.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I've had LaManchas, Nubians and Nigerians and LaManchas are my faves. Lower maintenance (as long as you keep an eye on their wee little ears), fairly easy to handle, silly personalities and delicious milk!


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

My fav is Nubian but the Guernsey also ranks up there. Totally different personalities, Nubians can be vocal and LOUD, Guernseys are generally less vocal, when they do talk usually in a quiet voice, very laid back and affectionate. They have more hair, some a lot some not so much and enjoy a good brushing. They are usually a little smaller than the standard Nubian, and also rare, there are some in the Northwest so you should be able to find some to look at and meet. That is the fun part, going to meet the different breeds. Have fun in your journey!


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## Beckngoats (May 16, 2015)

Interesting topic. I am learning so much from this forum.

Our two wethers are 3/4 Boer - 1/4 Pygmy. They are lovable goofballs. Two distinct personalities,but still very loving. Simon is more outgoing and loves to try to climb on my back. He will give me kisses anywhere he can.And loves to snuggle. Nick,Simon's brother is more laid back,and prefers to be groomed and snuggled.But both are playful, and crave our attention.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I think I agree with Jill, a LaMancha would suit you better than the other breeds. They milk well, some bloodlines milk way more than what you are looking for, while others will be right where you want. They come in loud colors, with big personalities, and are fairy hardy.


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

My personal favorite is the Mini-Nubian. All the fun and silliness of standard Nubians, with less screaming and schizophrenia. They have a high butterfat percentage, which is great for cheese making. We live in NW Oregon, and although they don't LOVE the rain, they do just fine. Ours are excellent blackberry eaters. They also make about 2/3 of the milk of standard Nubians, but eat about 1/2 the amount.

And, in the interest of biasing you, a picture of our wether, Leo.


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## Clearly (Jun 2, 2015)

Dayna: the second you wrote that you felt like the Little Mermaid, I was singing that song, and it's been on a loop all day!!!! "You want copper Marans? I've got twenty! But who cares??. No big deal! I want MOOOORE!!!!!" Lol!!!

Freedomstarr: you're quite right, I will need two. I tend to over extend anyways, so I'm sure I would have gotten two, but I have a very specific memory of a goat my friend had and I always ALWAYS felt that poor "Dawn" was miserable without friends. And yes, Ayam Cemani are totally creepy. I think they are real life dragons, we just don't ever see them breathe their fire!!! 

In this book I have, it tells you how many gallons you get per year for each breed and I'm stunned by how much they produce! But you guys are right, the chickens love dairy and my failed cheese attempts will be good for them.... And I'm sure I'll screw up quite a bit at first with cheese!

Thank you for these great responses. You are awesome!!!


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## Clearly (Jun 2, 2015)

groovyoldlady said:


> I've had LaManchas, Nubians and Nigerians and LaManchas are my faves. Lower maintenance (as long as you keep an eye on their wee little ears), fairly easy to handle, silly personalities and delicious milk!


What sort of attention needs to be paid to their ears? I was wondering about that; if the holes are exposed to the elements in a way that might injure them, etc.

It's sounding like LaManchas are the best starter breed, and from there I can branch out if I take this further... Which I totally intend to do!


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## Clearly (Jun 2, 2015)

WitchHazel said:


> And, in the interest of biasing you, a picture of our wether, Leo.


That goat is so cute! And the photo is amazing.... I can definitely see the appeal, that's my type of goat, if there is such a thing. That look is just awesome!!!

(Sorry about the multiple thread responses, I'm on my iPad all day without my laptop, so it's not as easy to do multiple quotes and such in one response!!)


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Yeah, earless goats (who come in such a variety of colors) are very quirky! They look like aliens. They are friendly, medium size, have very nice milk.

They also come in a mini, which means they are smaller than the standard sized Manchas but bigger (usually) than the nigerians.

I have had, in my 35 or so years of goats, Alpines, Nubians, Lamanchas, Saanens, Nigerian Dwarfs, Pygmies and Boers. I had a Togg/Alpine cross. Within each breed, there are good goats and bad goats. Quirky goats and boring goats. Beginner goats and advanced owner goats. Probably the best thing you could do is hang around with any goats you are interested in to see if your personality and theirs are a match!


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

Nubians are #1


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yay, picture war


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Clearly said:


> Hardy, beginner breed that I can learn from


Kikos, Nubians, Nubian/Saanen cross.
*Kikos:* Very easy going, calm, can be loud, bred to be hardy, don't need a lot of meds, deworming, hoof trimming, kidding care, etc. I LOVE Kikos for these reasons and several more 
*Nubians:* Multipurpose breed, I don't have a lot of experience with Purebred Nubians, but they are on my "to get" list!
*Nubian/Saanen cross: *I have a lovely cross and I really like her! She was my first goat, and I learned a lot from her. Easy going, hardy, she took a lot of "I'm learning what you need" from me!



Clearly said:


> Okay in Pacific Northwest weather


What kind of weather do you have? If you are getting goats from your area, then they are probably adjusted to it already.



Clearly said:


> Milk for cheese, but not the insane amount I've read about where I'm milking a gallon a day (of course I will have it kidded, done the research!)


My Kiko/Nubian/Saanen doe gives about a liter and a half once a day with a kid on her. So a nice amount, I personally would have NO IDEA what to do with a gallon or more of milk!
My Nubian/Saanen gives the same amount.



Clearly said:


> An assist on clearing land, as most property here is overgrown


KIKOS! Kikos are great at this! They do good on forage based diets, with little or no grain. Now, my Nubian/Saanen is good too, but I have noticed that Kikos seem to enjoy it more 



Clearly said:


> A great, quirky, friendly personality


 Nubians, Nubian/Saanen Cross, or Kikos, though Kikos tend to be laid back.



Clearly said:


> Not too large, but not too small


Generally, Kikos are a medium sized breed. (100-150lbs) Nubian/Saanen is also a nice size.



Clearly said:


> I just really want to do right by my first girl, and because I over-research things, I've just become too overwhelmed by it all that suggestions would be greatly appreciated


Relax  Goats in general are hardy, adaptable creatures. Normally they can take a lot. 
I would advise against getting a really high quality, expensive doe from a great breeder, simply because IF you do mess up, that's a very expensive lesson! Get one of CL (I guess you guys don't have Kijiji ) and learn from her, when you are confident with raising her, get a higher quality girl  
And yes, get two. Or you will have trouble keeping a lonely goat in! And if you get two, you could try two different breeds 

As good as planning is, sometimes it can be better to "go with the flow" 

And, DO NOT get Alpines as a first time goat  They are stubborn, smart, sassy, loud and can be very, very, VERY stubborn! (though some folks will disagree


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Well I'm joining in the goat picture war. I believe EVERYONE needs a "Myra"

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/myra-myra-myra-new-happier-thread-173866/

3 week old Myra:










Recent photo of Myra, her ears just slay me:










She was born october 3rd and she's probably a bit stunted from her health issues pretty much from birth to a few months old.

But she's a "mini nubian" and probably my favorite goat I've ever met. And not just because we're so close, but she's funny, smart, charming, and pretty. lol


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh for gods sake you guys :lol: Fine, don't get LaMancha's, get Alpines! :slapfloor:


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

*I* want an alpine but I've not found any pure breds around and I'd want a pure bred if I was getting a specific breed.

Maybe someday I'll ship one in. lol


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I sent all my Alpines packing :lol: their wings may be invisible but, if 5 ft chain link won't keep them in...


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

It was all my little goats that could leap high fences it seemed. I don't know why. I had a Nigerian I named trouble that I had to practically give away because nothing could hold her. All my big does are pretty content to not jump. I kept a minimancha because she was my first bottle baby though. 







She was the only goat I had for about 6 months, so I'm pretty sure she thinks she is a people.


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

Oh- and my mom had alpines but the milk was so awful I will never go that route (it may have been management, who knows?) Beautiful goats though!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

goathiker said:


> I sent all my Alpines packing :lol: their wings may be invisible but, if 5 ft chain link won't keep them in...


:slapfloor: That's hilarious, mine have the most wrecked fence, the horses could walk through it in spots, and they never get out :lol: The Boers are a different story :lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

No, no, you all have it WRONG!!! Kikos are the perfect breed  The love brush, come in lots of colors, have nice personalities, and have FLOPPY ears! Plus they're adorable  And only get out when they're out of food 

Sorry, can't upload pictures  But there's a lot over here! http://cedarpointkikos.com/


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

But... She wants milk goats :lol:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

goathiker said:


> I sent all my Alpines packing :lol: their wings may be invisible but, if 5 ft chain link won't keep them in...


My two I have are really bad too!!! Once school gets out two little kids are going to learn how to put hot fence up since they had to have them and refuse to let me sell them lol
I don't do dairy part of goats, I raise meat goats BUT I do have a few dairy for the extra milk. Lamanchas are my favorite!! I have totally lost track of how many kids and calves my lamancha has raised or kept alive till we could get formula. I'm guessing their milk is dang decent since my lamancha crosses are the fastest growing. Their personality is to die for. I do like Nubians too, I have one that's the sweetest little thing and will clean you from head to toe but I've had 5 and so far have only really liked 2 of them. I've yet to have a lamancha or cross that I don't like. 
And since I was there's a picture war going on I have to get in on that lol this is princess grace at just a month old (she's a boer lamancha though)


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

goathiker said:


> But... She wants milk goats :lol:


And? :lol: Kikos can be milked!


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

I think I may have started something....


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Okay, maybe now I want a mini munchie.


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## LamanchaAcres (Jan 11, 2013)

I would say that Lamancha's or Lamancha crosses would fit you the best. They are sweet, quiet and can milk quite a bit. We range from 1-2 gallons depending on the goat.


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## FreedomStarr (Oct 21, 2014)

But they have no ears!!


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

I'm sure LaManchas are very sweet, wonderful goats. I just can't get past their lack of ears. They look incomplete, like a cat without a tail!


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

DH thinks LaManchas look like sad, burn-victim Nubians :ROFL: We used to live near someone who bred mini Manchas and I wanted one, because they're tiny and weird-looking, yet cute  We love our Nubians and mini Nubians. We just got an Alpine, who, as it turns out, is louder than all of the others combined :lol:


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## ariella42 (May 22, 2014)

For some reason, I don't know if this thread is helping OP make her choice :lol:


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I actually busted out laughing at the last four posts....:ROFL: My boss thinks I'n nuts!

I mainly raise boers, but I do have a few dairy crossed does and nubians are my favorites of the milk goats.


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## WitchHazel (May 5, 2015)

ariella42 said:


> For some reason, I don't know if this thread is helping OP make her choice :lol:


Ha! I don't think we're helping, either. But then, she did ask! Never ask goat people to talk about their favorite breeds! It's so much fun to talk about them.

We'll probably keep "discussing" till the cows... err, goats... come home!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

ariella42 said:


> For some reason, I don't know if this thread is helping OP make her choice :lol:


Haha thats our job!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The no ears is the best part!!! Like the Nubians or boers go get a drink of water on a nice warm day then walk up, and you think oh I'll visit my little friend and bam!! Their ears are cold and wet and dripping water on you lol, ok actually it's beards that I mainly have this issue with lol but same idea. At least with the beards you can cut them off, well I guess you could with the ears too but why not just go with one born without ears lol


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Clearly said:


> What sort of attention needs to be paid to their ears? I was wondering about that; if the holes are exposed to the elements in a way that might injure them, etc.
> 
> It's sounding like LaManchas are the best starter breed, and from there I can branch out if I take this further... Which I totally intend to do!


I currently have 4 LaManchas (we call them "Munchies") and only one has any ear problems at all. When we do chores we usually take just a moment to give each ear a quick massage as we pet each goat. If they seem crusty or gooey (think ear wax, not infection) we clean them with a warm damp paper towel or a wipie.

If it's anything more than that then I clean them with a mixture of 1/2 alcohol and 1/2 white vinegar. So far no one has had any infections or real problems because we spot trouble before it happens.


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## pamdharing (Sep 11, 2011)

You should look into the Nigerian Dwarf, they give plenty of milk, and extra cream for cheese, and like everyone said it great for chickens, duck, or course cats and dogs. 
We became a grade A dairy to sell the extra milk and it's working out really nice.
The Nigerians come in all colors, are super cute, and you can haul them to the vet in the back of your car if you need to get there fast.
They kid with usually 2 or more kids sometimes 4 or 5, and those extra kids can bring in a little more revenue.
Nigerian also eat less for the milk they produce. They are small so they need less space for there stall and grazing area. 
I think all goats are wonderful. But of course I prefer the little ones they are also easier to handle.
One thing you should also look into is the noise level. some breed tend to be louder then others.
You also need to consider the size of the buck, Some breeds buck are really big, Nigerian buck are also small. so tend to be easier to handle. 
Nigerian are very hardy, and sturdy little dairy goats. 
Hope this helps .


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, I have a variety of different kinds, and I like my oberhaslis. They are quiet, mild mannered, and silly... I also have Nubians and find them to be a bit louder than I'd like, but finally got them to settle down, now they are quiet too. I also like Lamancha's, I prefer the ones with the elf ears, so in the mix is my little Lilly, my profile pic. She is 3/4 Lamancha and 1/4 Nubian, so I really can't wait until January to breed her.. As you can tell I took the let's get them and see approach, we also have 7 acres though...


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## pamdharing (Sep 11, 2011)

Nigerian do have smaller teats, because they are smaller, I milk 9 twice a day and it not hard once you learn the way. 
Most of my does give 1/2 gal a day the others give a qt. a lot less then the bigger breeds. It is really rich and lovely milk, of course Nigerian are my favorite, and your asking for the opinion of people that love their breed. 
Have a fun time choosing from all the wonderful goats around, 
Any breed would be wonderful.
sincerely
Pam Haring
Green Gate Dairy
Shadow Hills Ranch
shadowhills4.com


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## clementegal (May 23, 2013)

I agree with Nigerians! Although I also have a Saanen and a Lamancha I find that my Nigerians are easier to do just about everything with! Trimming, shaving, milking, washing, drenching/worming--all easier and less time consuming because of their small size. Additionally they eat less (so you can have more Muahahaha!! ^-^) and have fun crazy colors! Honestly during kidding season i never know what to expect color wise!
Also not all Nigerians have small teats. Most of the time first fresheners (does that just kidded for the first time) have small teats but once you get a few freshenings under them their teats grow with each freshening (I think this is true for most goats).

One reason why I really like my Nigerians is the fact that I'm very comfortable letting my down syndrome brother (who isn't very tall) into any of my Nigi pens--and being completely confident that no harm will come to him... With my two larger breeds (Saanen and Lamancha) they can be a bit clumsy and unaware of their size and strength which makes me nervous sometimes...

ALSO!!! 
Check out the San Clemente Island Goat! I used to breed them but switched to Nigerians. Clementes are a medium sized hardy breed with beautiful colors and unique personalities. Plus they are critically endangered so if you want to go that rout--you could help bring back and endangered species of which there are little over 600 left in the world. Check out www.scigoats.org if your interested


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