# My Alpine Doe Is Pretty Skinny and Fur Is Falling Out



## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Elsie, my 3-4 year-old Alpine doe who had kidded this past March, is losing her fur. I just rub my hand over her back and sides, and fur falls out, not to mention how flaky her coat is (like super dry skin). :shocked: 
Her coat is horrible, and she's pretty skinny (is she too thin? or is she normal because of kidding?). I've searched through all the threads, and I'm thinking she's lacking minerals, maybe copper deficiency?

Also, what is that bare patch of thick skin she has on her neck? I thought at first, maybe her collar is too heavy and rubbed the fur out, but with her coat looking like how it is now, maybe signs of something else? (My Alpine wether is getting it also on his neck, I could post pics if anyone wants...)

She was dewormed the day she kidded.
I've been feeding her 1 lb. of Dumor goat feed daily (stopped for a few days to stop her milk production), and just started giving her two handfuls of BOSS and several capfuls of corn oil in with her grain.

If you all think she has a mineral deficiency, can you recommend any minerals I can buy?
I've read about Onyx, Sweetlix, Techmaster, and Purina Minerals, but I don't know if any, other than the Purina Minerals, are around here.

Here are some pics I took of her yesterday, I can darken any if they are too bright to see. VERY sunny here in Central Texas! :shades:

These pics are showing her coat:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28190000.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185945.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185927.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185916.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185901.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185831.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185505.jpg

Legs:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185607.jpg

Tail:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185554.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185528.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185518.jpg

Side views of her body:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185749.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185452.jpg

These are pics of her bald patch of skin on her neck:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185726.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185713.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb320/harbor_safe_mutt/2011-07-28185631.jpg


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

She is thin... See how her spine sort of juts out? I would recommend deworming her again, and giving her a copper bolus. You can see on the black part of her coat that it has turned to a dingy rust color; that usually denotes a copper deficiency.... And the way her tail looks also suggests a copper deficiency.

As for her neck, I think that's just from her collar. My goats have that too, from where their collar rubbed it all off (even if it's a really light collar)


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## Goat Song (May 4, 2011)

You might also try increasing her grain intake. That can help with the weight issue...


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

She is very thin. How much hay is she eating a day?

Does she have any minerals now? I would offer her any kind you can get. Use a loose goat mineral. 

She also should be copper bloused. 

Did you deworm her the 3 times 10 days apart? How do her gums and eyelids look? 

Has she ever been tested for Johne's or the other wasting diseases?


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## SweetSaanens (Mar 6, 2011)

The other people that posted would probably know best but I was struggling with my girls being too thin after kidding and their coat wasn't looking great but the main thing they have in common is that bare patch of skin on the back of their necks. Two of my girls had that and I thought it was just from them sticking their heads through the fence and rubbing it off but on a closer inspection lice was found. There weren't many and it was easy to control once we found them so I thought I would mention it as there are quite a few symptoms in common. There were only 3 in the herd that showed these symptoms (all had recently kidded) but everyone in the herd had a little lice on them and have been tested for everything else we could think of so so I know that is what caused it as they all came back to health nicely after being treated for lice.

It would at least be an easy thing to rule out


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Woe... she is thin... 

Do you see any lice on her?

Can you get a fecal done on her for worms and cocci? That way ...you know if she needs something more ...to get her well.... Some wormers don't work...
What wormer did you use and dosage...and if it was given 10 days later...

How is her appetite? I would get her alfalfa... but... if she isn't use to it...do it gradually ....also do the same with graining her...

Loose salts and minerals is good to have... free choice for the goats and I agree.... she may be copper deficient....

I also agree to check her gums.....


> Has she ever been tested for Johne's or the other wasting diseases?


 I also agree here.... :hug:


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

She does look a bit thin on the back side. I had a similar problem with my alpines with the hair patch loss. It was a combination of rubbing from the collar and over sunlight exposure. From the sides she looks fine, a lot like my doe after she kids, but its been a bit long. Make sure she has lots of food to access, lots of clean water, and keep her out of the sun if you can. Maybe use some mineral oil to moisturize the skin. I'd say give her a bath on a nice warm day to clean out dirt and loose hair and perhaps any fleas she has. Give her a bit more grain, she could just be throwing a lot into her milk for her kids or you. Fresh hay, clean eating place. Stuff like that. My girl has got a pretty jutting spine like yours, and her hindquarters are pretty well defined. She's got weight on her stomach, so I'm not worried, at least from the pictures








my girl, shaved down








With more hair


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Sorry, everyone, for not answering anyone's questions yet. I've been busy with a new litter of puppies over the weekend.  

I bought some Sweetlix Goat Minerals (the non-medicated kind) ($16.50 a 25 lb. bag) and another bag of BOSS from the local feed store. I just learned that they can special order Cargill Right Now Onyx for me. So, I'll order that after this bag finishes, since the Onyx is cheaper at $30.05 a 50 lb. bag.
How much should I give her at first, before free-feeding? Is it possible she can over-dose?

I couldn't find any copper pills at the feed store, didn't think to ask :doh: 
What exactly do they look like? Can someone give pics of a bottle or something? Also how can I give them to her? And how much? Sorry, copper bolusing is new to me  

No, I didn't deworm her the three times, just once that kidding day...I used Safeguard for Goats (I know, but it was the only dewormer I had at the time) , and gave her the correct dose for her weight.

I'll check her gums and eyelids when I get a chance to go look.

I don't know if she was tested for any wasting diseases or Johne's, but I do know that she was tested negative for CAE (if that's considered a wasting-disease) by her previous owner (her breeder). She came from an experienced Alpine breeder who tests all her goats for CAE and owns her own bucks.

I have parted and looked through her fur for any movement of bugs or parasites, but didn't notice anything, although I may look into getting a lice "killer".

Her behavior is the same, she still likes to eat.  
I've increased her grain intake to 2 lbs. and I'll start giving her 1 1/2 cups of BOSS in with it.
All the pastures on our land are eaten down to the ground (we also have cows and horses, but in other pastures) :sigh: so there isn't much forage left for her and our other goats. Hay is scarce or VERY expensive around here, thanks to the drought.
The pasture that our goats are in has a lot of cedar trees, so there are still those that the goats can eat. 
We have one of those red salt/mineral blocks from Tractor Supply in the goats' pasture. Which reminds me, I'll have to move it to another pasture, since I'm giving our goats minerals now.

I've been wanting to give her a bath, but haven't found the time, maybe this week since every day is over 100 degrees.

I have stopped milking her, so her udder is getting smaller, and she's only letting the kids nurse for like a minute a day.  They are prett much weaned already.


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## BoerKikoLady (Nov 2, 2010)

Ivementrin can be used for some external parasites. My vet had me add soymeal protein for a doe that was having issues with weight. Start with a little and increase. It worked.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the lack of hay and her not having much browse is leading to her nutritional issues. She NEEDS hay more then she needs grain. Hay/browse is their main diet. Grains arent as good for them. If you have the money to buy her all this special feeds/supplements then I suggest you spend it more on hay as thats your main culprit there in her weight issue. If you cant get hay go for hay cubs or hay pellets (some TSC carry the Timothy pellets and alfalfa pellets). When low on hay I use the timothy/alfalfa cubs

I agree she looks copper deficient. Copper bolus can be bought from www.jefferslivestock.com they are labeled for cattle (whats new) but you give 1cc of rods per 40lbs of body weight. - the capsuls will need to be opened up and you can feed it to her in something she will eat.

As to worming - if she needs it I suggest you get ivermectin and treat her now and then again in 7 days. Some do a third worming if they are heavily infested.

Another reason for weight loss in an adult is coccidia - you need a coccidia med for that (wormers dont kill cocci).


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Looks like she still has some of her winter coat on and is shedding out which is a good sign. Taking a long time to lose that winter coat can be from a nutritional and/or parasite issue. I would get a fecal run. She should get copper bolused as well. And check for lice. I also would be increasing her hay intake. A good quality alfalfa will help her.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Alfalfa pellets, Timothy pellets, Beet pulp, hay cubes, all these things can be bought where you buy your grain to replace most of her browse. You can feed these things and get away with only a few handsfuls of hay daily per goat if you absolutely have to. 
The very best forage/alfalfa/hay you can afford is the #1 thing that should be on your shopping list. It is the foundation that her health relies on. Grain or pelleted ration is second, and supplements are last. This is assuming that they have good free choice minerals available to them already.
Your set up right now is going to affect the health of your goats down road. Some of the consequences can be lasting.
Goats are not meant to graze down to the ground. Over eaten pastures are worm paradise and while the goats are trying to find nourishment they are picking up hundreds of worm eggs and larva. They are also picking up Coccidia and all your farm bacterias.
Without the roughage they need, they are being set up for acidosis, which can, in it's extreme form, cause brain damage and death. With out building the calcium stores that the does need, they are being set up for milk fever or ketosis next kidding season. With out the proper balance of CA/PH the bucks and wethers are being set up for Urinary Calculi. Feeding too much oily grains is a set up for founder and permanant lamititis. Picking up so many parasites and having to be treated over and over is a set up for liver and kidney failure. 
Everything you do now will affect your animals in the future. I know there's always ways to get some roughage to go with the pellets, I've been there. And it seems to me, sunflower seeds are not the best use of your money at this point. If you really want the sunflower oil for her, buy it at Walmart for $10.00 a gallon and give her a teaspoon or two on her pellets.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the much-needed advice that was given. I need all the advice/help I can get.
We just bought two big round bales of coastal hay from last year. We'll look into getting hay pellets or cubes to help stretch the hay a little bit.

Will spraying her with Bronco fly spray help kill any lice, if she does have any?

How much of the hay pellets should I give her? 
And hay cubes? If I get those instead.

If only I wasn't ignorant about hay being the #1 thing to give goats, then this wouldn't have happened with Elsie. I just want to get her healthy again and prevent this from happening to her and my other goats.

I don't blame anyone for thinking I'm not a good goat owner....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No, you are absolutely NOT a bad goat owner. A bad goat owner does not go on a public forum and ask questions. A bad goat owner hides the sick goat in the back of her barn and denies that there is anything wrong until it dies. A bad goat owner refuses to learn.

I'm happy you found some hay. Now, IMO, I'd try really hard to find some alfalfa pellets to go with it. There's something about alfalfa that just makes a goat bloom. Also a goat can live well on nothing more than hay and alfalfa w/minerals. I've got 2 does feeding kids proving it right now. That is the base of your diet. Hay and alfalfa pellets. I give the pellets free choice, they eat about 2 to 3 lbs daily per animal.
I give grain only on the milk stand and creep feeding littles.
I would be happy to talk more with you, right now I need to go build fence while it's a little bit cool. I'll be back on a little later.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

This does not make you a bad owner. You caught it, you saw something was wrong. Goats can be tricky. I made a lot of mistakes when I was first starting out; one of my girls ate a lugnut 

Just hay hay hay hay hay  Hay is for horses, better for cows, goats just love it, this we all vow.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad you were able to get some hay. 
The minerals will also be a big help. 

You are a good owner to look for advice and help your animals! :hi5:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are here asking questions and advice....right??? I don't see that as being bad...I see that as responsible and wanting to have a healthy and well cared for animal... :thumb: :wink: :greengrin: 

I agree with everyone ...great advice given.... :grouphug:


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## BethC (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm new here and looking for all the information I can. You are definetly not a bad goat owner. I agree with the others, you asked, you learned and you did something about it AND....... you helped this newbie learn a thing or two by reading all the responses! so thanks for helping me out! If I ever have issues like you described and posted about, I'll have an idea to do!


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks again everyone.
Now I have another small problem I'm not sure how to handle.

I've started giving Elsie coastal hay, but slowly introducing it to her to prevent bloating. 
I've been filling a 20 gallon bucket with the hay (packed down) every morning, for about a week or two. 
Yesterday, I just started giving her the same but in the evening also. And last evening I noticed she looked slightly bloated, she wasn't showing any signs of bloat, but she looked stretched out on her left side, not as much on her right side, and her stomach bulged out on both sides. So I gave her some baking soda, and left plenty in a bucket for her to eat free choice. 
I've read a lot about bloat signs, and how to prevent it, I could hear gurgling in her left side, so everything was sounding fine...
I'm thinking she just has a full stomach, but I don't want to have her bloat on me.
I don't know if I'm giving her too much hay at once too fast or what.

This morning, I gave her the same amount of hay, but I'll hold off for tonight, since I want to hear what you all have to say.

Also can someone post pics of goats with full stomachs and goats with bloat, so I can tell a difference?

I'll try taking some pics to show you all what I mean.

(Also, I have two doelings and a whether who are in the same pasture as Elsie, so they eat the hay along with her.)


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like a hay belly - totally normal


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Here are some pics of Elsie and her belly:





































And her 4 1/2 month old doelings look huge as well! :shocked:





































Hay Belly or Bloat? :scratch:

--------------------------------------------


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Definately looks like hay belly...probably a little bloaty too though which isn't to uncommon if they get on a good amount of quality hay. Not sure if I missed it, but do you have baking soda available free choice for them? I mix a little bit with my minerals and then have baking soda only in another feeder. If they start feeling bloated they usually know to eat alittle bit. It will help with those round bellies and help prevent severe bloat. :thumb:


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes, I do give them baking soda free-choice.
That is a good idea, I think I'll add a little BS with their minerals and in their morning grain. In case they don't get enough. 

Sorry, I have another question  
(I'm trying to learn as much as I can about goats)

What should Elsie's healthy weight be? 
And using a regular measuring tap, how would I convert their heart girth to their weight?

Is using a measuring tape pretty accurate to tell their weight?

Also, what's a good weight for my 1yr4month old Alpine wether?
And my twin 4.5 month old Alpine doelings?

How big would my wether get? As big as a buck or smaller?

Sorry for all the questions...
Please tell me if I need to move these questions out of this thread to a new thread.


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