# Black goat still won’t turn black



## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

So we have been copper bolusing Trixie every 3 months for awhile, but she still has a copper tinge to her flank and rump, she has been getting a full dose adult copper pill (UltraCruz® Goat Copper Bolus) should I give her a higher dose? She is a Nigerian dwarf ,on the small size, probably around 50 lbs just for context. Ever since I got her I’ve been dealing with copper deficiency, her coat looking rough and the copper color. I’ve heard you could give a copper mineral separate, is that something I should do? Can someone direct me to a site If so? I’ll get a pic of her coat when I go out for my evening vist btw.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

MisFit Ranch said:


> So we have been copper bolusing Trixie every 3 months for awhile, but she still has a copper tinge to her flank and rump, she has been getting a full dose adult copper pill (UltraCruz® Goat Copper Bolus) should I give her a higher dose? She is a Nigerian dwarf ,on the small size, probably around 50 lbs just for context. Ever since I got her I’ve been dealing with copper deficiency, her coat looking rough and the copper color. I’ve heard you could give a copper mineral separate, is that something I should do? Can someone direct me to a site If so? I’ll get a pic of her coat when I go out for my evening vist btw.


Also, I’m in selenium deficient area, what should I supplement with and when should I?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Adult (4 gram) dosage treats 88 pounds. I have read in this forum that an excess/toxicity state of copper presents the same as a deficiency. There is copper in the minerals, copper in the grain also. I personally would not up the dosage amount for the copper bolus. Selenium - Vitamin E is available as a gel/paste that comes in a tube, the dosage is 5 cc or 1 click on the plunger once a month and can be purchased at farm supply stores. Bo-Se is an injectable form of selenium that requires a vet prescription.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

When you look at her coat..is the hair close to the skin also reddish? Or just the tips or so? I agree...don't want to over do copper. Also check what other things may cause this. We'll water high in Sulphur, iron or calcium can stop the effectiveness of copper bolus. Need to evaluate the whole picture to know how best to proceed.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

Some black goats will bleach in the sun and continue to have a reddish hue.


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## JML Farms (Jan 1, 2021)

How old is she? A lot of times age plays a factor in the quality of coat. I have one old doe that no matter what I do, she still has a rough coat and looks deficient. All the other goats look fine, but they are younger and in their prime. My hair was a lot thicker and darker when I was in my early 20s!


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

JML Farms said:


> How old is she? A lot of times age plays a factor in the quality of coat. I have one old doe that no matter what I do, she still has a rough coat and looks deficient. All the other goats look fine, but they are younger and in their prime. My hair was a lot thicker and darker when I was in my early 20s!


She’s the oldest probably a 1-1 1/2,


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

CountyLineAcres said:


> Some black goats will bleach in the sun and continue to have a reddish hue.


At a glance, one of my goats appears to be black unless you see him in direct sun light. He is deep dark chocolate, not true black, and when the sun hits him just right his red highlights are in full glory. I was thinking earlier if there was a possibility Trixie wasn't a true black. You taught me something about black goats bleaching, didn't know goat colors would sun bleach like human hair.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> At a glance, one of my goats appears to be black unless you see him in direct sun light. He is deep dark chocolate, not true black, and when the sun hits him just right his red highlights are in full glory. I was thinking earlier if there was a possibility Trixie wasn't a true black. You taught me something about black goats bleaching, didn't know goat colors would sun bleach like human hair.


I was thinking maybe it could be her coat color too, I’m just so unsure now, maybe she has a brown gene or something, sometimes she looked chocolate sometimes black 🤷‍♀️ This has been my big dilemma. I can never find a good website that shows pictures of goat coat colors and patterns I have my horse coats down path but goat coats not so much 🤦‍♀️


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## JML Farms (Jan 1, 2021)

MisFit Ranch said:


> She’s the oldest probably a 1-1 1/2,


Well, that should rule out age as being a factor. Post a picture when you get a chance.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

JML Farms said:


> Well, that should rule out age as being a factor. Post a picture when you get a chance.


here is a picture from about a week ago, not the best but I can get a better one tomorrow morning.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

MisFit Ranch said:


> I was thinking maybe it could be her coat color too, I’m just so unsure now, maybe she has a brown gene or something, sometimes she looked chocolate sometimes black 🤷‍♀️ This has been my big dilemma. I can never find a good website that shows pictures of goat coat colors and patterns I have my horse coats down path but goat coats not so much 🤦‍♀️


I know exactly what you mean about goat colors. Don't know what most of them are either unless someone posts a picture and says this is so and so color, or asks what a certain color would be called. And you are so right about trying to find a good website showing colors and patterns, several of the combinations are so confusing it's not easy to learn what the differences are. The only way I know mine to be dark chocolate is because it is on his papers and the color is the same from the tips to the roots. When I brought the goats in for the evening a little earlier and saw the sun hitting the chocolate one, it made me think of Trixie and wonder if she could be dark chocolate and not true black.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> I know exactly what you mean about goat colors. Don't know what most of them are either unless someone posts a picture and says this is so and so color, or asks what a certain color would be called. And you are so right about trying to find a good website showing colors and patterns, several of the combinations are so confusing it's not easy to learn what the differences are. The only way I know mine to be dark chocolate is because it is on his papers and the color is the same from the tips to the roots. When I brought the goats in for the evening a little earlier and saw the sun hitting the chocolate one, it made me think of Trixie and wonder if she could be dark chocolate and not true black.


If she truely is chocolate, I really hope I haven’t messed up her liver with my inexperience 😫


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

She looks mahogany with black trim. I have a boar with that coloring. Heres a picture of Qheart.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

Moers kiko boars said:


> 208476[/ATTACH]


 thank you, I agree, I’ll take a look at her coat and see if her roots are the same color just to be sure but I think this is the answer. I’d love to see more pictures of goat coats like her’s of anyone has any 😊


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

@MisFit Ranch your goat is a deep mahogany.... not black. It will be light which determins her color. She is a very beautiful girl. Try shaving her. You may be battling her winter coat


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

Tanya said:


> @MisFit Ranch your goat is a deep mahogany.... not black. It will be light which determins her color. She is a very beautiful girl. Try shaving her. You may be battling her winter coat


Thank you, I’ve found a picture of a Nigerian dwarf that looks identical to her coloring For future reference if anyone visits this thread and has the same problem I do. I just hope I haven’t ruined her liver, toxicity wise.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Yay


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

MisFit Ranch said:


> thank you, I agree, I’ll take a look at her coat and see if her roots are the same color just to be sure but I think this is the answer. I’d love to see more pictures of goat coats like her’s of anyone has any 😊


A subtle sign there is a copper deficiency would be seen with the hair on the goats neck. The tips of the hair begin to look sort of singed, feels a little coarse to the touch. An obvious sign is a fish tail, where the hair on the tail begins to fall out, leaving a horizontal V shape on the tip from the balding.


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

NigerianNewbie said:


> At a glance, one of my goats appears to be black unless you see him in direct sun light. He is deep dark chocolate, not true black, and when the sun hits him just right his red highlights are in full glory. I was thinking earlier if there was a possibility Trixie wasn't a true black. You taught me something about black goats bleaching, didn't know goat colors would sun bleach like human hair.


Yes! It was surprising for me to learn that as well. Black is technically a super dark brown, and some blacks won’t bleach in the sun while others will easily. I’m sure there’s some sort of secondary trait that controls this.

It’s easiest to spot if a goat is a “true black” rather than a dark chocolate when they’re born. Take them outside and look at them in natural light.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

MisFit Ranch said:


> Also, I’m in selenium deficient area, what should I supplement with and when should I?


Most areas are deficient in selenium. I know a doe receives supplemental selenium about a month before she kids and newborns are given a dab of selenium at birth. I had 2 selenium deficient weanling kids purchased from the same farm. Supplemented them with the Selenium gel/paste once a month for about 3-4 months until the signs disappeared. Then got a selenium block lick so which ever goat needed some could get their own. Selenium is one of those supplements you really don't want to over dose. Check the levels in the feed and loose minerals, you may not need to supplement just because the area is deficient or unless obvious signs are noticed.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

Tanya said:


> @MisFit Ranch your goat is a deep mahogany.... not black. It will be light which determins her color. She is a very beautiful girl. Try shaving her. You may be battling her winter coat


On the topic of shaving , does anyone have a recommendation for clippers, also should I shave every summer? It gets pretty hot down here


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> Most areas are deficient in selenium. I know a doe receives supplemental selenium about a month before she kids and newborns are given a dab of selenium at birth. I had 2 selenium deficient weanling kids purchased from the same farm. Supplemented them with the Selenium gel/paste once a month for about 3-4 months until the signs disappeared. Then got a selenium block lick so which ever goat needed some could get their own. Selenium is one of those supplements you really don't want to over dose. Check the levels in the feed and loose minerals, you may not need to supplement just because the area is deficient or unless obvious signs are noticed.


Is there any other signs other than reproduction difficulties and muscle problems?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

There is a unusual bend to the tail. Instead of being erect, the tail curves sideways or downwards, 24/7. I have also seen posted pictures of goats with a very prominent tail bend to later discover it was because the goat wore diapers and the tail just sort of grew that way. I looked closely at Trixie, her tail is nice and erect without any bends or crooks. 

What loose minerals do you use? Many of the deficiencies can be straightened out in time with good quality loose minerals, the feeding program, keeping worm loads in check and if in doubt, a vet can do bloodwork to check the levels. 

I took the 2 weanlings I wrote about earlier, in for a check up within days of getting them and the vet pointed out the selenium issues to me. (They were also a little weak in their rear pasterns) She drew blood on both of them to double check her assumption. Since the levels weren't extremely low, told me how to treat them with the Selenium/E gel, tested again in 60 and 90 days and recommended the selenium block to help maintain their levels once the low levels were corrected. She was concerned about white muscle disease in those 2 kids, they were only 6 weeks old when the breeder pulled them from their dams. 3 years old now and the selenium problem hasn't recurred to date.


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## MisFit Ranch (Apr 1, 2021)

NigerianNewbie said:


> There is a unusual bend to the tail. Instead of being erect, the tail curves sideways or downwards, 24/7. I have also seen posted pictures of goats with a very prominent tail bend to later discover it was because the goat wore diapers and the tail just sort of grew that way. I looked closely at Trixie, her tail is nice and erect without any bends or crooks.
> 
> What loose minerals do you use? Many of the deficiencies can be straightened out in time with good quality loose minerals, the feeding program, keeping worm loads in check and if in doubt, a vet can do bloodwork to check the levels.
> 
> I took the 2 weanlings I wrote about earlier, in for a check up within days of getting them and the vet pointed out the selenium issues to me. (They were also a little weak in their rear pasterns) She drew blood on both of them to double check her assumption. Since the levels weren't extremely low, told me how to treat them with the Selenium/E gel, tested again in 60 and 90 days and recommended the selenium block to help maintain their levels once the low levels were corrected. She was concerned about white muscle disease in those 2 kids, they were only 6 weeks old when the breeder pulled them from their dams. 3 years old now and the selenium problem hasn't recurred to date.


I use sweetlix meat maker minerals 😊


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## Hockeydudde (Mar 2, 2021)

I have a related question. How long until you expect fish tail to go away? I have a doe with a strong fishtail, been treating for copper for 6 months now, just gave her 2 g of COP for third time. I still have not seen a change in her tail tip.
Thanks!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How much does the goat weigh?

Usually within 4 months you will see the hairs growing back, little stubs.
You have to look at the tail tip. 
If the hair is still long around the fish look it can be deceiving so move the hair apart and check.

Otherwise iron cancels out iron.
Do you have a lot of iron in your water?


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