# Need some advice on changinf some things around here



## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok so I am wanting some pros and cons on big herds and small herds and what is the perfect number. I have 33 does and 12 bucks. I am sooooo tired of all the feed I go through I am soooo tired of the health problems too. It seems like something is always happening. So I am wanting to dowsize as you can tell. I am tired of having a herd of some nice and some so so animals, I want a small herd of excellent animals. DOes this all make sence? What do you all think? And please please look at my website, and I know you guys cant touch my animals and really tell their conformation, but by pedigree and what you can see in pictures who should I cull and who should I keep?? Please help! I trust all your guys advice dont be afraid to "hack" away at my herd, you wont hurt my feelings!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't blame you at all for downsizing ....we have all done it..........or........ are in the process right now.................I cannot give you advice on the Nigerians..........what is good....... or what is bad.......but someone else will ...  .........Sorry I couldn't help........


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Pictures can always be so deceiving! So this is a hard one....From what I can see on the pics...

My least favorite bucks:Simple Pleasure's Santino and Shooting Star Dom Parignon

Favorite bucks: Everwood RR Flash (nice pedigree, good looking) Dill Pickles Court Jester (same as other buck) and Sweet Briar Cottage Romeo (real nice looking buck!)

Least favorite does: Shooting star lola, Skywalker, Starbucks Eureka (she seems a little to coby and short bodied from the picture)

Favorite does: Sartain left at lompico, Lily of the valley, Sassafrass, Wish you a merry christmas, 

Jr. Does least fav.: Jaina

Jr. Does fav.: Camelot

Hope this helps a little! Good luck with your upcoming sales. You have some gorgeous goats!


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## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

I can see how that many goats could easily be overwhelming...Personally I think 15-20 goats is a good number...I don't think I could ever have more than that unless I was a full-time goat farmer (I wish...lol). 

Anyway, I'll take a look at your website and post more later...


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Looking strictly at pedigrees and their offspring's accomplishments (photos took too long to load) I saw alot of the same pedigrees mother daughter and stuff so I chose the pedigree I liked more, and SOME photos I did get to see. Good Luck!

I would keep 
Mayflower
Fortune
Demeanor
Fiona
Sassafras
Moonbeam
Nikki
CowGirl
Lola
Dotty
Camelot
X-Mas

Bucks
Romeo
Santino 
Jester


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i have 13.. but i would think 15 is a great number. three or four bucks and the rest does.. and then you've always got room to keep babies if you want

you know i love my two girls up there.. haha little biased, and i love lilly and minuet, and christmas,and lola, and well i could go on..


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Need some advice on changing some things around here*

A good sized herd to me is about 12-15 goats. . . . no more than two bucks, maybe, just maybe three (but that's just me). 

My favorite bucks of yours are:
Romeo (he looks the best to me)
Court Jester
Santino

Favorite does:
Minuet
Cowgirl
Zippy Nikki
Lily of the Valley
Sassafras
Fiona
Graceful Demeanor
Wheel of Fortune
Mayflower
Wish you a merry x-mas
Camelot (jr. doe)
Jaina ??


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## jordan (Nov 22, 2007)

25 goats would be my ideal number. You are right about health issues seeming to become an issue when you go over 30! Not to mention the feed costs if you aren't growing your own hay!
OK. Bearing in mind that the pics are poor (not set up and hairy)...
It is not possible to help you much with the does because there are no udder pics up and since that is one of the most important things to evaluate, without them I'm basing it purely on conformation and pedigree.
liked
Minuet
Lola
Crystal Cowgirl
Lompico
Fiona (the most dairy of the group)
Sangria (for the Willow Creek genetics)
Graceful Demeanor (also dairy looking)
Merry Christmas (for the pedigree alone)
Wheel of fortune
Mayflower (for the pedigree)

On the fence
Sandy II
Lily of the Valley
Moonbeam
Spirit of Hope (don't like conformation but some good points on pedigree)
Eureka - nice old pedigree with good udder genetics but she lacks dairy character (I'd probably keep her as a brood doe)

Don't like 
Fantasia (looks rough)
Nikki (no dairy character)
Skywalker
Sassafras (no dairy character)
Nutmeg Spice (poor udder genetics in this pedigree)

Can't really critique Romeo because I really dislike Promisedland and Sugar Creek (their animals tend to go over height too and he looks like he is/will be)
Santino - really don't care for this one (posty and not balanced)
Miracles Happen - though I like his Ponders End pedigree, extremely steep rumped when the legs are placed correctly, his legs have to be set waaay back to level out that rump.
Court Jester - weak in the pasterns 
El Dorado - don't care for this one, appears hocky and narrow
Flash - can't tell a thing by the pic and find Twin Creeks a little too inconsistant in what they produce to make a judgement on his potential without udder pics of his kids. Probably worth keeping long enough to see though. 
Obsidian - a keeper based on pedigree alone
Knight Ryder - very good on the top of his pedigree, the bottom of pedigree is average/poor
Hercules is the most dairy looking buck of the bunch
Dom - don't care for this buck

I'd evaluate the juniors based on the seniors.
Hope this helps
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## artsy_farmgirl (Mar 1, 2008)

I am not an expert on nigerians but I do like to look at all breeds, so I have made a list of which goats in your herd I like the best(and a few that I am not sure of, because of the pictures mainly, but liked enough to mention). I would love to see udder photos, without them it was hard to decide(and without a picture I didn't judge). Hope it's some help. 

Bucks:
Romeo
Court Jester
Flash

Does: 
Minuet
Lola
Crystal Cowgirl
Fantasia
Lily of The Valley
Lompico
Moonbeam
Spirit of Hope
Wish U A Merry X-mas
Fiona
Sangria
Mayflower
Dotty
Honeybun
Camelot(unsure, she is still young but a very pretty kid)
Eureka(unsure, I like her even though she is a little cobby)
Nutmeg Spice(unsure, her pose is a little awkward but nicely marked)
Sandy(unsure, hard to judge by her pose)


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Sixshooter - 

I am by no means an expert on confirmation - but i will take a look at your stock and see let you know what I like and would look at keeping - but I think that you got alot of good advice above!

As far as herd size - with the cost of feed and then having so many, it is harder on the husbandry side. One because you don't have as much one on one so you don't notice the little signs as fast, but two - it can spread through so many more and then it is so much more work.

I really like where I have my herd and expect to never go over 20. I think that is a pretty good number and I tend to hover between 15-25 during kidding seasons.

Take care!


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## MysticHollowGoats (Sep 10, 2008)

I see that you show. I would start by taking a really good look at the does who have done well in the show ring first. Then look at all the others to try and see how a judge would compare them to you best winning does. Take a notepad with you to write notes about each one and be very critical. Then compare milking stats, your website states that you are raising for show and milk in the pail......keep the one who are the best at doing that and possibly thier doelings.


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## Amy Goatress (Oct 2, 2008)

We have 49 goats right now, we had 72 goats. We raise Mini-Nubians, we had 36 bucks at one time, not sure on the does but we had more bucks than does though.


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## MysticHollowGoats (Sep 10, 2008)

Now that is a LOT of bucks :shocked:


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I definatly know the feeling. Any given year i keep four milking does five kids two dry yearlings and two bucks. This is a perfect number for me. As i do hand milk and bottle raise. Every year i get a new buck and every year i get rid of a buck. having such a small herd this works well as i can keep a buck for two years, by that time i have several kids have seen a couple of udders out of him and have a heavy influence from him in my herd. 
The feed bill stays mostly manageable. Which i know from working at a feed store things are going up a lot right now. and not looking like thay are going to come down anytime soon.
Obsidian by far is my favorite buck of yours. He has an awsome pedigree and is a nice looking boy himself. 
I like romeo next, he does apear to dip a bit in the chine but i think its because he has his feet up on the pallet. He has very nice shoulders smooth tight and sharp through the withers. 
I like flash as well though he is a bit hard to see under that hair i think he has a lot of potential.
I like perignon as well. i like his head neck and front end assembly.
youre does area little harder i like, xmas, demeanor, fiona, cowgirl and minuet, based on pedigress and pictures.
for jr. does i like dotty, camelot, and honeynun.
beth


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well thank you all for your great advice! That is really helpful to have someone elses eyes look at my goats cause of course its hard to see my own goats faults lol. ok so here is what I am thinking by all your guys votes

Bucks:

Jesse
Romeo
Hercules
Flash 
Dom
Ob
night rider
(yes yes I know I know more bucks than I need lol)

Does:

Fiona
Minuet
Honeybun
Sangria ( just cause I like her as a brood doe)
Eureka ( I need to update her pic, when she first got brought home in that pic she was probably 20 pounds over weight)
Mayflower 
Fortune
Sassy
Crystal
X-mas
Demeanor
Lompico
lola
lilly
moon 
hope
chamomile ( not pictured but does great in the show ring)
Corona( again not pictured but is an awsome little doe)
and dotty( purley cause I like her genetics)


So I think it is a good start, I mean that would make 12 goats up for sale that I could let go of this very second. My buck el dorado and happy I will breed to several does and then let go of, el dorado is bred to like 10 does so thats not a problem, happy I will throw in with some girls. SO do you all think this is a good start??


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I think you're off to an excellent start! It's so hard choosing which ones have to go!! I would have a heck of a time choosing.... :roll: .....I like them all!


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

sounds pretty good to me

i'm still kinda interested in one of coalettes does


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

You are definately off to a good start....and I'm sure you will be "whittling down" again when all those babies start coming, I think you made some very good choices on who to keep.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

yes .........definitely off to a real good start ......thanks to everyone's help..........now you ...do know which ones you can sell now......  :hug: Happy.... sells........ to you..... :thumbup:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I am soooooo ready to downsize, I have 3 sick goats quarentined in the side yard..... dont know whats wrong with them just yet....... they look good, all fuzzy and bouncy, and then you get your hands on them...too skinney..... I am so sick and tired of not finding them till something is wrong. I mean I guess I cant say sick, they are happy and bouncing just skinney, I feel like the horrible breeders I always complain about not taking care of their goats....... :sigh: :sigh:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooter test for worms..............get fecal done ........check their gums and eyes...............it could be that darn worm problem you have had in the past.........skinny indicates to me wormy.....especially if they are eating well.....you might have to put your goats on a deworming program for a while............. to get it under control...........use different wormer"s ...........your goats might be immune to the wormers you are using..........


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well I just tried to do my own fecal lol. dident turn out so well, I dident see a SINGLE egg or worm, I saw bubbles but that was about it, saw the fibers and stuff but no eggs... so I did something wrong, what do you guys use as a fecal float to get the eggs to float to the top?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I honestly send my fecals in to WADDL (I know-I know) but that way I don't miss something. Even though I have done fecals for years in the vet clinic the eggs look different then the ones that I am used to and just worried.

That is an idea if you wanted.

Also, you should be able to order what is called Fecasol. That is what we used in the clinics for the fecal floats!


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

My gosh, have you been reading my mind?????? I'd love to know. You took the words right out of my mouth. That's precisely the problems I've encountered and as a result I made a drastic reduction of my herd and boy am I glad I did. I'm happier, the animals are happier and I think we might just have a better year next year. 

Like them Woodhaven goats so I wouldn't part with Sandy II. Steele Ballew is a good farm as well. Do you have udder photos of any of them? That helped me in deciding with some of mine. Piddlin Acres is a good farm too. I'm not familiar with some of the farms on there. Merry X-Mas has a Rosasharn sire so she could be nice as well. She looks very correct. Keeper. You'll have to judge each goat's background, individual confirmation and udder to know who to keep and who to sell. That's what I did. I also decided to focus more on certain lines too. Bucks I'd already used and have kids from I sold and I only kept my two junior bucks who I feel are my best bucks. Everyone has their own opinion but the only one that matters is yours since you have to live with it. Make sure you're 100% ok with who you decide to sell and 100% pleased with who you keep.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

sixshooterfarm said:


> I am soooooo ready to downsize, I have 3 sick goats quarentined in the side yard..... dont know whats wrong with them just yet....... they look good, all fuzzy and bouncy, and then you get your hands on them...too skinney..... I am so sick and tired of not finding them till something is wrong. I mean I guess I cant say sick, they are happy and bouncing just skinney, I feel like the horrible breeders I always complain about not taking care of their goats....... :sigh: :sigh:


Take fecals to your vet if you can't do them yourself or don't feel you're doing it right. I haven't even tried to do it myself. The vet can at least tell you what you need to do.

Also don't assume an adult goat can't get coccidia because they can and do. I treat them with the same stuff as kids if I am in doubt.

First though get the fecals. Usually they're pretty inexpensive.


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