# Kiko doe critique



## Everfree (Nov 15, 2013)

If you have a moment, I'd appreciate a brief analysis of this doe's pros and cons. This is as close as I can get right now, and the terrain is uneven, so she's not set up well. Thanks.























Everfree Farm
Kiko and Nubian


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Just remember:Kikos where bred for 'Production Above All'. 
Conformation is 2nd or 3rd on the 'important' list.

Anyway...

Pros:
-Good brisket
-She seems to have good width
-Good, strong legs

Cons:
-Steep rump. 
-Dip in the chine.
But if you look at pictures of top quality kikos, most of them have that and sort of posty back legs. 

Just don't get too caught up in the conformation thing with Kikos. It is important, but not as important as production for the breed as a whole. 
That's why some people don't like the Kiko Look. Everything is MO.


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## Everfree (Nov 15, 2013)

LLNkikos said:


> Just remember:Kikos where bred for 'Production Above All'.
> Conformation is 2nd or 3rd on the '...


Thank you. I love the practical way Kikos have been bred up, but I also like to see a strong structural foundation.

Everfree Farm
Kiko and Nubian


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Same here!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Yes, goats are all about production (whether it be dairy, meat or fibre), but from everything i've read from the professionals on this forum, that conformation plays a huge role. mostly due to the fact that conformation isn't just about looking pretty, but there's function behind those requirements. 

for example, uphill statures (shoulders taller than butts). they're desirable because rumps tend to be more level, which can lead to ease of kidding (less of an angle in the birth canal), it helps with proper weight distribution (not as much weight being put on the front legs), and helps with drainage.

your girl could use more size in the butt region....

i think your girl is really really cute. bred to the right buck, she can have some meaty little babies! btw, that 2nd picture of her makes her look kind of like a pointer dog.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm just wondering, is there any studies or the like proving that level rumps = more kidding ease?
Because, from my observations, Kikos tend to have steepish rumps. But the main +'s of the breed is kidding ease.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

i personally wouldn't know. i'm fairly a newbie myself and sharing info i learned from all the professionals out there.

did a quick search for kiko conformation, and they also do prefer a level rump
http://www.kikogoats.com/Conformation-Doe.pdf


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Yes, not wanting to pick an argument, but...

If you search pictures of 100% New Zealand Kiko Does, a good many of them don't have 'dairy level' rumps.

http://www.nvdga.org/2008_May_Show/Pictures/P5173270.JPG

http://goodoledays.weebly.com/uploads/9/0/6/0/9060057/7439619.jpg?504

Kiko does:

http://www.zinkranch.net/sitebuilder/images/DSC_0062_edited-13-457x463.jpg

http://www.mjironwateracres.com/Hemp's Girl 36.JPG

http://www.sunsetfarmkikos.com/uploads/goats08_012.jpg

I like the rump on the Kiko doe in the 2nd picture.

What exactly is used to measure the levelness of a rump? What is too level? 
I know that really steep rumps aren't good.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

nope, no arguments being picked here.  open, friendly discussion to further learning!

i'm not saying a dairy style level rump is best for kikos, i just wanted to point out Everfree's doe has a steep-ish rump.

i looked up a few pictures too when i was typing up my first thing, and if you look at some of the kikos here, some have a more angular butt and some flatter. http://www.goathillkikos.com/

i also think that with the meat breeds, b/c emphasis is on meat production, there tends to be a little more curving of the top line. Even the best boers out there aren't completely straight and flat like i've seen on dairy breeds.

as for levelness, i think it depends on the judge. for ADGA, there are guidelines for dairy. i'm sure there are ones for ABDA, but i'm not sure. i can find the ADGA one for you if you like....


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

That sounds good...

Sorry Everfree for taking over your thread! I like your farm name, by the way!


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## Everfree (Nov 15, 2013)

Not a problem at all! It's all very interesting to me. 


Everfree Farm
Kiko and Nubian


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

The desire for a level hip comes from cattle studies. The thought is that a steep hip can be at such an angle that it creates a narrower space in the birth canal. I have not noticed where it is such an issue with goats. They should have a gentle slope to the hip.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I read an article in the Goat Rancher today that I agree almost completely with. Function should come over form every time. If a doe raises and weans her own body weight every year and continues to do so for many years, it doesn't matter what she looks like, she's a successful, functional doe that should be kept. The rest is just aesthetics.


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