# When Is It OK To Breed?



## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Our 3 Saanen doelings are about 8 months old right now and we REALLY wanted to breed them this winter so we would have spring kids, but so many local people tell us different things.

They weigh about 50 pounds each right now, with one of the smaller ones being closer to 40 pounds, and a neighbor said you MUST wait at least until they are a year old regardless of weight.

I was curious if it would hurt them to breed them now with a small buck such as a Nigerian Dwarf so that the kids would be smaller and it wouldn't wear too much on my doelings. Is this possible? Would breeding them now cause future problems or stunt growth?

Our girls are so happy and extremely healthy and we really want to breed.

Here is a photo of my favorite special girl, Taffy Davenport:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

I'd go ahead and breed them...We've bred some of our Nigerian Dwarfs that age and they did just fine...Your girls should have a really easy time if they're bred to a Nigie


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I bred my Nigerian Dwarf at eight months -- her kids were a little large but that was because she delivered past her due date. She was a great mom. I think it's more about the individual goat than the actual age. As long as they are big enough and mentally ready, I would breed them.


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## emma_c (Sep 19, 2012)

She is such a cutie!! Best wishes for your breedings.


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## Tlambert95 (Oct 16, 2012)

Me personally I would rather them be bigger weight wise not so much age. My saanenxnubian at 8 months was 85lbs. She was bred after escaping like a hussy to get to him. I was going to wait till she was10 months just for extra growing time. But nooo she couldn't wait.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

For Saanen doelings...at 8 months old, those weights are low. Full size dairy goat breeds should have considerable weight at that age... I only say that because my 8 month old Nigerian doeling weighs 51 lbs.

I personally don't breed before a year of age...just my choice. Everyone has their own way of doing things and if you have a good feeling about breeding at their size, only you can make that choice. :hug:


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Full size goats shouldn't be bred until they are about 100 lbs or more. They can be bred at about 80 lbs, but it is better for them to wait until they are bigger. Even bred to a Nigerian they could still have kids that are too large for them, especially if they have singles. I have an 8 month old Saanen that weight tapes at 97 lbs and I am still debating whether to breed her or not.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

See I am nervous about this. The guy I bought them from at 4 days old lied to me and said they were pure Saanen, but the weights aren't matching up right now. They should be a lot bigger and I am starting to see signs of Alpine coming out in 1 of my other ones. 

I don't feed them any grain. They are on pasture all day and have free choice hay. When they are full up they are ROUND. Maybe they aren't pure dairy goats but I really still want to breed them. Dunno what to do!!


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

It's possible they were mixed with a miniature breed -- hard to know. Do you have any pics?


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I will get a photo of me with them tomorrow so you can see the size correctly.


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## Tlambert95 (Oct 16, 2012)

I grain all of mine and even still my alpines are small in comparison to my saanenxnubian. A saanen is the largest dairy goat breed so if they are 100% saanen something does not seem right.


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

First off welcome back. I haven't seen you on in a while. Second I agree they are quite small for 8 months. At that sized if you really want to breed them I would breed them to a small breed like a Nigerian Dwarf. Their size could very well be due to the lack of grain as well. They need the protein in it to grow a bit faster when they are younger. Many things factor into growth including genetics. They may be from very slow maturing lines. Generally speaking eight months is an OK age to breed. I like waiting until 9-10 months just to let them be more mature in mind and body. You would be surprised what one more month could do. That being said I had a doe kid at 1yo bred at 7 months just fine other than a HUGE single kid that would have been huge even if she was a 2 yo.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

No input on breeding, too inexperienced to know that. But, Taffy's horns do look a little strange. Is it just me? Almost looks as if she is deficient in something, since they're shape and texture are not normal.


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## romanad (Sep 22, 2012)

The breeder I bought mine from told me 8 months and 80 pounds was earliest to breed them. My Alpine/Togg mix will be 8 months in a week and she is 78 pounds. I've been debating what to do, but I think I am going to wait until Dec., and if her weight is good, I am going to go for it. My breeder said she does it at 8 months and 80 pounds all the time and they have never had a problem, so I'm going off of what she told me. She has given me a lot of advice and I feel I can trust her.

I would just add that I would want to make sure they aren't mixed with Nigerian Dwarf or a smaller breed before you breed them. If they are mixed with something smaller, breeding them with a full size buck could cause problems for them.


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## Skyz84 (Jul 25, 2011)

I'd say they are mixed or maybe slow growing? 

Have you had a fecal done lately to see if something is slowing them down. Mainly coccidia?

My Nigerians are at least 45lbs at 8 months old and I'm nervous about breeding them! Our 6 week old Nigerian buck kids are 20lbs! LOL


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

How are you weighing them? If they are actually 50 lbs then something is a bit fishy. Mixed breed, cocci, or environmental factors. Did you see the parents? 

There are several "big" dairies locally that bred at about this age. To kid at or just before their 1st birthday. They are successful and obviously find the reward is worth the risk. They can't afford to wait longer to freshen the doelings. These dairies also show competitively. 

I recently butchered 2 Nubian wethers at 6 months. They weighed 90 and 105 lbs. They were only on browse and occasionally nursed on their dam. No grain, alfalfa or special treatment. 

If you need or really want to breed them just choose a smaller buck. Like you mentioned. But this is my first year breeding. So take my book knowledge with a grain of salt. Your girls look adorable. They make me want to get a Saanen.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks so much for the warm welcome back! I didn't really go anywhere, life just got busy with my husband taking (and passing) his bar exam, expanding the farm, clearing more land and getting ready for Winter. 

I am not too concerned about cocci. They did have weird clumpy stools once over the summer, for a few days but people on this forum said it was probably due to the fact that I switched them from open pasture to a small enclosure and had them on a new hay that they didn't seem to like. I treated them with electrolytes and they haven't been off since. It's been months since I have seen anything weird. 

As for Taffy's horns, I have an explanation. We used fencing that was NOT goat compatible for a period of time and all 3 girls kept getting their heads stuck in the fencing. As a result, it wore down all of their horns which is why it looks funny in the photo. We have since changed the fence and don't have those issues anymore. 

I am getting concerned by everything I am reading that they may stay small and perhaps the person I bought them from did indeed lie to me. I didn't see the parents when I bought them. He purchases livestock in bulk and resells them so I had NO info on them when I got them. 

Selling them is not an option. They may be livestock but I grew attached when bottle feeding and they are my baby girls. Is there any way to test for genetics? Could it be possible they they are from a slow to mature line? Don't know what to do. 

I really do want to breed them so maybe I could find a ND that could do the job and go from there. I am on the hunt for some real dairy goats, just no idea where to get them here in New England but I will keep looking!~!


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Here is a photo we took this morning showing the girls with me in it so you can see size.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

They don't look that small. They probably do weigh more than 50 lbs. I would go ahead and breed them based on how they look. If they were left dry next year they may get too fat and that isn't good for them. Have you tried picking any of them up? If they feel heavier than a bag of feed, they should be fine if you bred them to a Nigerian. Just keep feeding them well after they are bred so they can continue to grow and grow their kids.

Congrats on your husband passing his bar exam! I have heard that is a pretty hard exam to get through.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks very much for the congrats!! They do certainly weight more than a bag of feed. They are pretty heavy. We weighed them a few weeks ago by me standing on a scale, and then picking them up individually and then weighing them with my weight.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

You may have not got an accurate weight that way. We did that with my granddaughter and she ended up having to go to the dr and we were way off on her weight. I think they look like they are a good weight. I'd go ahead and breed them too. Oh and i thought i was the only one in the world to slip flip flops on over socks to go outside lol..


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

congrats on him passing the bar. In the photo not sure how tall the person is, they look a little bigger than my ND does, particularly the one on the right. Since you aren't 100% on the breed maybe the age is a little off as well. As for breeding them based on the unkown you could breed to a smaller buck, but it depends on what you want in the end. I am limited on space so I went with ND, and I love their milk; as well as the higher butterfat for cheese. Are you set on full size dairy goats, do you care if you have full size and mini's, etc. Would those kids be something you want to keep, milk and breed? 
As for breeders in New England, I spent my young years in CT and dad's from Boston, there are several ND people out that way; although, I'm not sure on the big guys.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

I wear sandals in the snow if I can!! haha. Hate shoes.

I keep looking at breeder sites but it's all a bit out of my budget for now. I guess Craigslist will have to be the place to go for now. 

I found somebody with a Saanen buck down the street from me who said I could breed my girls with him if I wanted, and that he weighs about 125 and is 2 years old so it sounds like he is smaller.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

I have to say i'm a boot kinda gal most of the year but i do love my flip flops lol..Craigslist is a good place to look for goats..


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Flip flops, I wear them all the time! I'd be barefoot when ever possible well except in the goat pen. I msg your other thread, seems there is someone on the breeders page with Saanen in NY. Too bad you aren't here there's a gal with some really nice ones raised organically, and the unregistered animals are 175-200.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Dec 27, 2011)

Ohh!!! Thanks so much! I will check out that breeder!

Im a barefoot guy also. I drive barefoot, everything. I get yelled at by people for not wearing socks in the winter. haha


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

There's always Roeburn's, should you have a spare $700 or so.


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## JaLyn (Oct 10, 2012)

My poor feet would freeze to death lol..my daughter is the last of us to wear winter shoes and socks lol..


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

They don't look to be too awfully small, however...this being their first time freshening..I would try and find a Nigerian buck...it would be easier on them to have smaller kids and since goats grow until they are at least 3 years old, by the time they would be ready to breed again, they'd have gained considerable growth and would have enough size for you to determine wether they should be bred with a Saanen buck. Just an idea... regardless of what breed they are bred to, they'll still produce milk as well as some nice cross kids for pets... if you plan to keep doelings though, those kids would definately need to be bred with a mini buck should you decide to go with a Nigerian sire.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

huh, I dunno to me I guess they look quite small for saanens ...


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

They are not the size they should be but I don't think they are too too small. They defiantly look larger than 60lbs. How tall are you?



LegendsCreekFarm said:


> Im a barefoot guy also. I drive barefoot, everything. I get yelled at by people for not wearing socks in the winter. haha


Shoes are restrictive and I hate them. I go barefoot or wear flip-flops even if there is snow on the ground. My feet are so hard I can run barefoot on gravel.


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