# Kids Wont Grow!!!!!!



## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I have Boer goats and they will not grow. My kids just stop growing at 2 months and barely grow to weaning. Kids have access to all the creep feed they can eat. We give them stuff for cociddia once a week for a preventative and they have decox in their feed. They start growing again at like 5 months. There starting to get that gross bottle baby look. The first thing your all going to say is do a fecal. They are not wormy and are far from thin. They all get 4 plus pounds a day with beautiful 3rd cutting grass hay. They have free choice minerals and access to automatic waterer's. They all get proper vaccines and worming. Why don't they grow as kids. Please don't say genetics. I have tried all sorts of genetics/ different does and bucks. I need good answers as to what I can do to improve there daily gains. I see on the computer all the time people weaning kids at 60+ pounds and I want that.


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

What's that gross bottle baby look?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Well you have basically three reasons, genetics, parasites, or feed. You mention they are not wormy and have cocci preventative, but have you actually done fecals to be sure? 4# of good grass hay, how many are you feeding, how long does that last them?? Are they getting any type of grain? And yes unfortunately the first three reasons mentioned are probably at play. As for gross bottle baby look I'm not sure what you are using to get that idea. I've seen many gorgeous bottle babies.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Are they dam raised? Bottle babies? When do you wean?


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

Also, what type of feed are you using?


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

What size lot? How many kids? What type mineral? Average weight of adults you are using?


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I know the dairy kids are fine but what I'm talking about is when you raise Boer kids on formula there usually tiny little runts and just don't look healthy and slick haired. (I hope not offending anyone) There belly's look fat and there necks look skinny I guess is the only way I can describe it. The does are all 150-190lb. My gains are seem to be consistent year after year. What do all you meat goat breeders usually get for average daily gains?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Ive never used formula so cant say there. If needed we use whole cow with buttermilk mixed in.
Is there a particular reason they arent dam raised?
Babies who have too much milk at one feeding can have big sloshy bellies. Is this what you are talking about?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tape worm will stunt growth as well how are they horn growth


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

They are dam raised. I wean at 3 months. The feed is an 18% pellet and they also get some corn w/ that. I kidded 15 does. I think there are 36 kids total. The does all look healthy. The only thing I can think of is if they aren't producing enough milk, which they all have decent udders.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

I tend to average anywhere from .5-.7 lbs a day. I generally wean out at about 40-60 lbs depending.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

Is it a meat goat grower? If not, they need to be on that. Also, free choice GOAT mineral. co op has a good one (or you can get bagged loose mineral for deer) i would nix the corn. wasted expense. use those extra $$ to buy a better feed. I don't do cocci prevention. I just treat as needed. How big of a lot are they on?


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

The corn is just an extra because we grow corn. They are on custom goat pellet that is specially designed around and contains the same thing as the big name brands. The mineral is a loose GOAT mineral that was designed by a guy at the mill to meet their needs.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

What I don't understand Is why last week their gains were up and looked great. This week their gains were down to .2-.3


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

My kids didn't grow real great last year. I had them all on a boer goat creep and they ate like little pigs. They were healthy, treated for cocci and wormed. So this year, I boosted the does feed. They are getting a lot of high quality alfalfa. I don't see any real difference in the size of their udders, but the kids are growing much quicker and it seems the does let them nurse more often and longer. So...you might try feeding up your does with a high protein feed of some sort.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

They may be filling up on corn. I have seen them pick it out. Do a trial. Put a few of them on a pre bagged meat grower, don't add corn, and throw in some high quality alfalfa pellets for mom. 

You also may have too many on the lot. If they are constantly running from each other and are overcrowded, there may just be too much competition there. May need to cut your numbers back or separate out your pastures.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

What BCG said. What you are feeding the does is important. It effects how much they milk and consequently the growth of the kids.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm feeding almost the same thing as every other breeder around me and their goats seem to grow just fine.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

I am getting on the low side .44 and the high .67, this is with several sets of triplets. I feed 1lb of 16% feed per doe and 1/2-1 flake of alfalfa per doe before dark. All day they eat pasture grass and emerging weeds. Free choice minerals in several locations. Clean, fresh water by the hay manager, in the night pens, and several spread in the pasture. I plan to creep feed the keepers once the others go to auction.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

What were their birth weights?

I have purebred boers.

I feed a 16% goat feed specially designed at Penn State for the guy I bought my buck from.

Since they turned 6 weeks old, they are gaining 6-10 pounds per week. They are eating 10 pounds of grain daily split between 3 kids. Plus free choice hay, forage, minerals and water

CD/T at 3 weeks and 7 weeks, wormed at 4 and 8 weeks with Prohibit, Cylence for bugs, Nutridrench at birth.

Not sure if this helps or not.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> What were their birth weights?
> 
> I have purebred boers.
> 
> ...


I do all that except the Cylence and are's is 18% pellet.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

GTAllen said:


> I am getting on the low side .44 and the high .67, this is with several sets of triplets. I feed 1lb of 16% feed per doe and 1/2-1 flake of alfalfa per doe before dark. All day they eat pasture grass and emerging weeds. Free choice minerals in several locations. Clean, fresh water by the hay manager, in the night pens, and several spread in the pasture. I plan to creep feed the keepers once the others go to auction.


We pulled all the triplets for bottle babies.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

Does anyone no of any supplement or any trick for faster growing kids?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Nubian1234 said:


> Does anyone no of any supplement or any trick for faster growing kids?


Cocci treatment and calf manna. Also separate kids by size so the younger ones don't get bullied for food. Lots of quality browse, hay and grain too. Keep up on worming too, including tape worms. They really hinder growth


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

You are missing some crucial information. As someone said early in the piece, you have three reasons, genetics, parasites and feed. Lets skip the first one. 

I have a real feeling that parasites are your issue here. You say they are not wormy but what are you basing that on? What have you wormed them with and when? What coccidiosis treatment have you used? Although a fecal would be helpful you obviously dont want to do one so I wont go there. To be honest I dont fecal test often myself, but I do use other methods. What do their eyelids look like using the FAMACHA scale? You say they have a rough coat, that is often a key indicator or worms and/or cocci. When people describe the bottle baby look it usually means kids that are small, pot bellied, skinny, thin necks and legs. All of this is often clear signs of coccidiosis or worms, and right around two months is when coccidiosis in particular will hit. 

Feed sounds good - but you have not said how much of it you are giving them? How much are you giving per doe? Are the kids getting some to eat as well? When I dam rear I like to set up a creep feeder so kids dont have to compete with mums for grain. 

The last thing that relates kindof to all of this is stocking rate. How many goats do you have? How much space do you have? Are they on pasture or drylotted?


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

There aren't really any tricks. You seem a little defensive. No one here is trying to hurt you, only help. You came to ask for advice and that is what we are trying to do. 

If you have 15 does and their 36 kids on a 1/4 acre lot, they won't grow well. 

If you have a parasite problem, they won't grow well.

If you don't have good genetics, they won't grow well.

If you feed a sub par feed or hay, they won't grow well.

If you don't have out a good goat mineral, they won't grow well. 

Calf manna is great. Feed specifically formulated for meat goats is great. The thing is, if you have any of those other issues, they still won't grow well.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I just finished reading through the whole thread. 

First thing I would do is have fecals done on all goats. Ask for specifics on tape worms, coccidia and barber poles. If you can't afford a vet call your county extension office and ask for the livestock agent. He/she may help you. Those are going to be the problems. Then I would look into the dams feed. Take out the corn... it doesn't do anything for them but fill their bellies. I would use only the feed and of course good hay. Moms and growing babies need alfalfa or a really good grass hay. 

I know you said not to.mention genetics but it is a very real possibility. Are the bucks and does known for fast growth? Like previously said, we are here to try and help.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

keren said:


> You are missing some crucial information. As someone said early in the piece, you have three reasons, genetics, parasites and feed. Lets skip the first one.
> 
> I have a real feeling that parasites are your issue here. You say they are not wormy but what are you basing that on? What have you wormed them with and when? What coccidiosis treatment have you used? Although a fecal would be helpful you obviously dont want to do one so I wont go there. To be honest I dont fecal test often myself, but I do use other methods. What do their eyelids look like using the FAMACHA scale? You say they have a rough coat, that is often a key indicator or worms and/or cocci. When people describe the bottle baby look it usually means kids that are small, pot bellied, skinny, thin necks and legs. All of this is often clear signs of coccidiosis or worms, and right around two months is when coccidiosis in particular will hit.
> 
> ...


I have a microscope maybe I could do my own fecal. The does get 2.5 pounds twice a day. My hay is the best of the best grass hay. I have never seem more green hay than this. The creep feeder never goes empty. I'm constantly checking eyelids and there bright red. I'm in the north east so we have snow right now but they can go out when it's sunny. They have a huge pen in my barn. I dont know how big. I bed heavy with straw every night, i never let it get wet. The only ones that have that bottle baby look are some kids from a first time mother that dosnt have much milk. They won't take a bottle because I was going to supplement them. They look fine and every one except those kids have good hair. I deworm with cydectin and use di-methox for a cocciddia preventative.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

What type of grass?


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

It's Timothy, orchard grass and a lot of other mixed grasses. They also get a bale of alfalfa in there feeder with that for something more rough.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I guess after reading some of what I posted It sounds like I made it out that they weren't growing. They are growing but there not all at the .5 a day that I think I should be getting.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Is the 2.5 lbs for the does how much grain each one gets, or is it for the whole group? Do you know the nutritional value of the hay? Grass hay can look really nice, but have little to no nutritional value (basically like a filler). How does the poop from your kids look? How are you dosing the di-methox (individually, as a group)? Do you have slugs in your area? Is so, it would be a good idea to worm your kids and does (only the non-pregnant does) with a flukecide, either Ivomec Plus or Valbazen to kill liver flukes.

When the kids start growing again, do they usually catch up in weight/size to kids from other herds of the same age?


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

If your hay tests high in nutrients, you are also feeding good alfalfa, they are parasite free, your genetic lines are not slow growing, and they are all healthy .....I would consider the effects of cold weather. It takes a lot of energy to stay warm when the temperatures are low and there is snow on the ground. Boers were not made for cold weather. You may need to increase your feed just make up for the energy burned trying to keep warm. Feed = energy. Energy = milk production. Milk production = growthy kids.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm going to try breeding nubian does to boer bucks for better milk production. I guess we will see if those kids grow better. I show and have raised many ABGA champions. They just for some reason don't start out so great. They always pick right up at around 5 months. Here is one of the yearling does. As you can she dosnt lack for anything. She did the same thing as these kids at first and started growing later. She was junior champion at a show in Sept. I just don't understand why there so crappy at the 0-4 month range.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Well you have lots of information now. Looking at your girl above, she's a nice girl that's for sure. Hopefully you can figure it out, if nothing else (finding the silver lining here) you know that as they get older they are very nice looking.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

It sounds like you have slower maturing lines. Mine are slower maturing too which isn't a bad thing. In south africa they want the Boer goat to take 3 years to grow to full size. Fast growth is important there but not nearly as important as structure and health overall. I think sometimes we focus too much on how big a goat is and not enough on overall quality. Size is important but is not everything


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

I have a .50 Caliber doe an one of my neighbors has several .50 Cal does and a buck. They seem to grow slow.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I don't know how it can be lines when the does are from all different farms and I have used 5 different bucks.


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

I would say if all of the goats you are getting are from the same general area, they are probably from similar lines. I know of the farms that are close to me with registered stock, all of us have some of the same blood other than sunshine boers....and none of us can afford their goats. Lol


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

ogfabby said:


> I would say if all of the goats you are getting are from the same general area, they are probably from similar lines. I know of the farms that are close to me with registered stock, all of us have some of the same blood other than sunshine boers....and none of us can afford their goats. Lol


Same here. People here have alot of ripper and cat in the hat lines. I'm the odd ball with kaptien and more wether style. Theirs grow fast and mine are a little slower. Mine catch up around 6 or 7 months though


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Dani-1995 said:


> Same here. People here have alot of ripper and cat in the hat lines. I'm the odd ball with kaptien and more wether style. Theirs grow fast and mine are a little slower. Mine catch up around 6 or 7 months though


My Ripper line buckling and doeling, at 4 months, look like my .50 Cal line doeling did at 7 months.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm still stressing over these goats!!!!!! They all have nice hair and look 100% healthy. There just not big!!!!! My 8 month olds are the size that four months old should be. There from great genetics so its not that. My bucks sires are **ENOBLED**. With many great names. They get all the grain, hay, and Pasture they want. I just can not find a reason as to why there not bigger. People have said the lines are slow maturing, Iv used 6 different bucks from all sorts of diff. lines over the last 4 years and all sorts of different type does. Parasites are not the problem. Feed is not the problem. And genetics are not the problem. So what is??????? There beautiful goats and Iv raised abga champions but usually it was a judge that didn't look at the size of the doe and looked at the overall package. When my goats are at the top of the class there usually the same size as the goats that just got bumped into that class.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

If you were to walk outside right now and look at the water that is out for your goats, would you drink it?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Nubian1234 said:


> I'm still stressing over these goats!!!!!! They all have nice hair and look 100% healthy. There just not big!!!!! My 8 month olds are the size that four months old should be. There from great genetics so its not that. My bucks sires are **ENOBLED**. With many great names. They get all the grain, hay, and Pasture they want. I just can not find a reason as to why there not bigger. People have said the lines are slow maturing, Iv used 6 different bucks from all sorts of diff. lines over the last 4 years and all sorts of different type does. Parasites are not the problem. Feed is not the problem. And genetics are not the problem. So what is??????? There beautiful goats and Iv raised abga champions but usually it was a judge that didn't look at the size of the doe and looked at the overall package. When my goats are at the top of the class there usually the same size as the goats that just got bumped into that class.


Saying that the judge looked at the whole package makes me think your goats are more moderate framed. Do you have pics of them? They can have the best structure ever and if they don't have size they won't place well. I'm not too sure why else your goats wouldn't be growing well if you have covered everything else.


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## mmiller (Apr 3, 2012)

What are some of the bloodlines that you've used over the years?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I prefer my Boers to be slow growing in the beginning, breeders around me push their kids to be in the 80+ pound range at 3 months old or so. But guess what, all the kids grow too fast for their joints and skeletal frame that they have weak support for life. Too much weight is stressful on the joints and growing bones, and can cause permanent damage.
The kids she has have very weak pasturns, and top lines. I have 3 kids from her that I bought as day olds and did not make them grow that fast, they have great joints and top lines.

I feed a mix of many grains, sometimes straight calf manna when needed, oat/grain hay, loose minerals, UTD on shots and wormings, fresh water, and pasture. Nothing more. I stress to keep good genetics for superior offspring and herds.
I no longer feed alfalfa as the farmers spray it and the goats won't eat it, and they mostly have GMO alfalfa. GMO alfalfa killed my sisters horse last July, it has also killed entire herds of cattle in many states.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> I prefer my Boers to be slow growing in the beginning, breeders around me push their kids to be in the 80+ pound range at 3 months old or so. But guess what, all the kids grow too fast for their joints and skeletal frame that they have weak support for life. Too much weight is stressful on the joints and growing bones, and can cause permanent damage.
> The kids she has have very weak pasturns, and top lines. I have 3 kids from her that I bought as day olds and did not make them grow that fast, they have great joints and top lines.


I could not agree more!!! Good growth rate is important but not as important as quality of the animal.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces-ADG said:


> The kids she has have very weak pasturns, and top lines. I have 3 kids from her that I bought as day olds and did not make them grow that fast, they have great joints and top lines.
> I no longer feed alfalfa as the farmers spray it and the goats won't eat it, and they mostly have GMO alfalfa. GMO alfalfa killed my sisters horse last July, it has also killed entire herds of cattle in many states.


Who is she?
Entire herds of cattle in many states?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Who is who? The breeder or my sister? Either way both are in Northern Ca.

Yes, GMO alfalfa has killed many herds of cows, mainly in Texas. It was on the news. I'm sure you can Google it for more info. 

But out here absolutely nothing will eat the.alfalfa I buy. No cows, horses, goats, nothing. It will sit in a feeder for weeks, they won't even touch it, they'd rather starve.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

actually it was tifton 85 that killed all those cows and it was not GM..it was a hybrid...the false reports had everyone stiring..here is a link on more of that
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57459357/grass-linked-to-texas-cattle-deaths/


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Bermuda grass, 15 years of use in that pasture, not GM, just a simple hybrid that has been around since the early 80's. A couple of other plants can have similar toxcity problems. Johnson grass at times. Haygrazer for a short after frost.








As originally published, this story was titled GM Grass Linked to Mass Cattle Deaths and referred to Tifton 85 grass as a genetically-modified product, which is incorrect; it is actually a hybrid of Bermuda grass.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Either way, there is GM alfalfa, that was solely what my sister horse was eating for about 5 months, tad bit of pasture here and there, and he died. Couldn't save him.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

​


Tenacross said:


> If you were to walk outside right now and look at the water that is out for your goats, would you drink it?


Yes, they have Nelson automatic waterer's that they have access to all the time.


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## Nubian1234 (Oct 25, 2012)

mmiller said:


> What are some of the bloodlines that you've used over the years?


My buck that these kids are sired by is by AABG Kickin Brass. Other genetics are Downen, AABG, 2Dox, FSE, and some of the best goats I can find some what local.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Are your Goats just moderate in frame? Sire only makes up half the gentics.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Nubian1234 said:


> ​Yes, they have Nelson automatic waterer's that they have access to all the time.


Make sure you clean them out often. Animals will drink more if it's super clean.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Very true! Mine are real picky... if I don't clean it every day or two they don't drink near as much as they should.


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