# Bracing..



## Scottyhorse

I know bracing is a debatable topic, but I have a couple questions about bracing anyways so here goes.

1. The doe who I will be teaching to brace is about 8 months old. Luckily, I don't start showing until may/june, so I have plenty of training time. How many times a day and for how long should I train her? She also doesn't like to keep her head up... Any suggestions for that?

2. During a show, when do you brace?


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## Scottyhorse

Bump


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## goatgirl132

by brace what do you mean? 
are you bracing like a breed goat or like a wether? 

some people brace their does(like a wether) right before the judge feels them and while the judge feels them.
I do not I just stand them up the entire time. I dint brace them like a wether


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## Crossroads Boers

Well, unless you'll be showing her in the market goat/wether classes you won't need to brace her at all.  For open shows and fairs in the breeding classes you never brace. I am the wrong person to try and answer how you should teach a goat to brace... I know there are some others on here who can answer that for you though.  

Just keep practicing with her on holding that head up. If you can get a half or full prong collar that would really help her not want to lean on the collar.


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## goatgirl132

actually some people brace their does feel them


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## Scottyhorse

At one fair I went to this year, a girl was bracing her breeding Boer doe.. But that is good you don't have to brace like you would a market wether. 

I guess I'll just work with her getting her head up and letting me set her up then.
Also building up some muscle mass because she is a bit flabby right now 

Victoria, I *think* I sent you a PM, have you gotten in yet?


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## Crossroads Boers

Well, I have never seen it done in a breeding class, but if you want to brace her go for it! I'm sure somebody could teach you how.  

Nope I didn't get a PM yet... ?


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## Scottyhorse

If I don't have to brace, I'm not gunna! LOL. I will get a prong collar though, she is very resistant when it comes to gettin' that head up. 

I'll re-send that PM


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## MollieGoat

The judge that judged our breeding show at my fair asked me to brace my doe so i think it's a good thing to train them to brace anyways.. I also think it makes them handle better if they are braced correctly. Just my personal opinion though . I haven't really had much experience teaching goats to brace but they way I teach my lambs to brace is to back them off something a few feet off the ground. I started them on a stack of railroad ties that we're laying around( 2-3 high, 4-5 wide). I did this for about one week and started them on the ground. They would brace a little bit but they finally realized that they weren't really that high off the ground and would just step off so I started backing them out of our horse trailer. That really made them hard. I have heard of people backing them off a fitting stand too. It just takes a lot of time and patience! Some people train them to brace on command which I think is really smart! They will tap the top of their head or pinch their neck a little then push on them and the lamb/goat will learn to brace when they do that.. Sorry for the novel but I hope that some of it will help


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## Crossroads Boers

Sounds like a good plan! ^  

Got the PM!


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## Scottyhorse

I guess it wouldn't be bad to teach her, just in case  Backing her out of the horse trailer is a great idea!


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## OakHollowRanch

I was just in round robin on Friday, and I was told not to brace a doe. However, the one girl who did brace was the one who ended up winning the buckle....


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## Scottyhorse

Weird


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## goatgirl132

OakHollowRanch said:


> I was just in round robin on Friday, and I was told not to brace a doe. However, the one girl who did brace was the one who ended up winning the buckle....


ughhh I hate that! makes me wanna just throw in the towel


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## Scottyhorse

Okay, so I just had my first bracing lesson. I was backing her out of the trailer. 
She would either squirm around and face sideways so she didn't have to push, or just step down off the trailer. She tried to jump on me a few times. Normal for the first attempt?


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## goatgirl132

I never got the pushing off thing to work. I just pushed them back until they pushed against me id fix their feet then hold them in place while giving pets and telling good job


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## Scottyhorse

Maybe I'll try that tomorrow. She's really squirmy. Won't stand still for setting up or keep her head up either. Ha ha.


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## goatgirl132

I work on the bracing then the head.
I explained it to someone-- thinking in little kid terms as "you have to get the kid the stand there for you before you can work on them looking at you: getting them to look at you (hold their head straight) is pointless if they won't stand for you"


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## Scottyhorse

Makes sense. Now how long (if you could guess at all) do you think it'll take her before she gets it down? Working with her 2-3 times a day.


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## goatgirl132

it depend from goat to goat. 
my whether I have some who get it within the first few trys and iv had others it takes weeks to figure it out.


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## Scottyhorse

I think she's going to be the one to take weeks.. Haha.
She also scrunches herself up so her front feet are touching her back! How can I deter her from doing this?


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## goatgirl132

I had one that did that and I picked her up like an inch or 2 and backed him up.
once he got it I put him on the ground then backed him up. 

do not. do not by any means pick her up to much like you see some people do. 
all trays gonna do is teach her to jump up everytime you go to brace her. now not only do you have to break her of that rabbit you have to re teacher her to brace


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## wildegoats0426

I had a wether trained to where I would set him up and tap his but and he would instantly push. Best goat ever  my girls are a different story! But I always tried turning a faucet on and backing them under that


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## goatgirl132

I had one trained to where if I sloped walking he'd brace. 
but you don't want that with your does.


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## Scottyhorse

goatgirl132 said:


> I had one that did that and I picked her up like an inch or 2 and backed him up.
> once he got it I put him on the ground then backed him up.
> 
> do not. do not by any means pick her up to much like you see some people do.
> all trays gonna do is teach her to jump up everytime you go to brace her. now not only do you have to break her of that rabbit you have to re teacher her to brace


Okay.. So grab her by the chest and just lift her off the ground a bit?


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## wildegoats0426

You want to use her head when you brace her. And teach her to brace on the ground so you won't have to pick her up at all. Here's tons of pics you can look at


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## Scottyhorse

She's got horns, so they kinda get in the way when I hold her head from the back. 
Your boys look so nice braced like that


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## goatgirl132

you kinda just have to find a comferable position. its hard I k.ow I have 2 does. but you'll find something


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## wildegoats0426

Scottyhorse said:


> She's got horns, so they kinda get in the way when I hold her head from the back. Your boys look so nice braced like that


Thank you!! I feel the same about the horns. Not sure how I will brace like that but it's a learning thing


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## Scottyhorse

Now when you train them like that, do you back them off something? Or back them into water? How often do you work with them?


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## wildegoats0426

If you try he water you just back them into water. You don't have to back them off anything for that. If she hates water enough she'll push. I used my trim stand and backed them off that. I even used my truck and backed the off the tailgate


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## goatgirl132

I never got anything except the just flat out push them till they push against you method. and I just pushed back till they pushed against me


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## Scottyhorse

Well thanks for the tips guys. I'll see what happens today.


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## wildegoats0426

Goodluck!


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## Scottyhorse

Okay. Water doesn't work. I can back her across the whole pen and she won't even stop once. Yanking her head up just makes her resist more and scrunch/squat even more. I don't think she's going to get it. LOL. Should I keep trying?


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## wildegoats0426

Don't give up! She will get it! I don't get the yanking her head part. But back her into fences or off a curb or tailgate


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## Scottyhorse

Yanking her head - No matter how hard I try to get her head up she won't keep it up.
I tried backing her off the trailer, but I will keep trying.


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## wildegoats0426

Okay I see!


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## Scottyhorse

Not really any progress today... Tried backing her across the whole goat pen, into a wall... No push. It's like she doesn't care  Just seemed to stress her out.


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## Dani-1995

Scottyhorse said:


> Not really any progress today... Tried backing her across the whole goat pen, into a wall... No push. It's like she doesn't care  Just seemed to stress her out.


Does are always harder to train to brace. I pull mine up and into me while leaning my whole leg up to my hip forward and into them. Does are stubborn and want to do what they want. Wethers are so much easier!


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## Scottyhorse

Dani-1995 said:


> Does are always harder to train to brace. I pull mine up and into me while leaning my whole leg up to my hip forward and into them. Does are stubborn and want to do what they want. Wethers are so much easier!


That's what I've been doing. Yeah, does are super stubborn.


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## MollieGoat

Do you have a fitting stand? You could leave her on the stand with her head up for 20 minutes everyday, that might help over time. Bracing takes a lot of time so don't give up!


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## Dani-1995

I don't actually walk the backwards nust lean into them. They're so adamant about getting their way... its tough


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## Scottyhorse

MollieGoat said:


> Do you have a fitting stand? You could leave her on the stand with her head up for 20 minutes everyday, that might help over time. Bracing takes a lot of time so don't give up!


No... I really really want one though!


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## Scottyhorse

Dani-1995 said:


> I don't actually walk the backwards nust lean into them. They're so adamant about getting their way... its tough


Do you think having someone holding a treat of some sort out in front of her would help her lean to lean into my thigh?


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## Dani-1995

I don't think so... then shed be leaning and to brace she has to push out her hocks. When they lean they have a tendancy to pop their top line up and have an ugly humped look.


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## Scottyhorse

Okay. So then I should just stick with pulling her against my thigh, while pushing her with my thigh? It really stresses her out, I mean _really_ but maybe she'll get the point faster?


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## Dani-1995

She might. The one time I tried it the plan back fired. I normally pick them up then push them down into the hocks and they get the idea pretty quick. Thats with 50-70lb wethers too though. You know your goat better than I do so if you think it will work then its worth a shot.


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## Scottyhorse

I honestly have no idea what will work... This is my first Boer. Lol.


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## Dani-1995

Its just like any other goat lol. If she is food motivated it could work as long as she's not leaning and you push her like she should be. That could work if you timed it right lol. I can't multi task and I hate for anyone to help with training them since I want it done a certain way (and my mom kind of spoils the goat). Another thing that works for mw is leaning and pulling the tail at the same time. Or sometimes patting the rump while leaning into them. Grabbing the leg and leaning has worked...

If you have someone who can pull the tail, pat the rump or grab leg muscle for you while you hold her and lean into her it might work. If she's a bigger goat you might not have a choice but to have help


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## Scottyhorse

She's small.. Maybe 75 pounds. I didn't get her to brace today BUT I DID get her set up, AND hold it for about 35 seconds!  It's a big accompleshment, because she loves to have her legs set under her. So that was good. She likes to move her feet back under her, but I got her to hold it for a while. Do you think I should work on getting her set up and holding it before I work on bracing? Dunno if that would help or not.


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## Dani-1995

I was assuming she already sat up and stayed... sorry! My bad! definitely work on setting and staying and also holding her head In the position for bracing. Then start pushing into her when she gets the hang of it.


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## Scottyhorse

Dani-1995 said:


> I was assuming she already sat up and stayed... sorry! My bad! definitely work on setting and staying and also holding her head In the position for bracing. Then start pushing into her when she gets the hang of it.


Thank you, I think it will be much less stressful on her that way. Though today she was burping A LOT while I was working with her, and making sounds like she was trying to puke  BUT we did make some progress


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## Dani-1995

That's just her rumen working. They chew cud about 35-40% of the day so its normal. They will act awful when they do it though... I usually work with mine right before feeding so I don't have to deal with the bad breath burps lol


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## Scottyhorse

Okay good so I wasn't choking her. LOL.


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