# Not eating minerals



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Our goats drive me crazy... they won't eat loose minerals. I have tried a variety of brands over the years, and nada. Biggest issue is I can not keep them dry. I tried the PVC feeder, nope. Currently have the 2 compartment mineral feeder from TSC. Won't stay dry in there either. 

I'm not sure what to do from here. I can understand the young does not wanting it as they are on full feed, and they do have a trace mineral salt block, although I don't know if they are licking on it or not. 
The adults though... are not on full feed, and it concerns me because I know they must need the minerals. 
I don't know what the deal is. I know they loved this bag when we first bought it. I clean the feeder out, make sure it's clean and dry. But almost looks like they barely touch the tiny bit I put in it. 

I'm not sure what else I can do.

We will be getting the adults one of those protein/mineral lick tubs as soon as it comes in at the feed store. I'm hoping that will help, but debating on giving them a copper bolus to ease my worries that they might need copper.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Do your feed stores carry the bags of kelp meal? Might try mixing a bag of that in to encourage them.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That's an idea. I know that @Suzanne_Tyler has mentioned doing this.

When you get the protein tubs in, perhaps rub a handful of the minerals in on top?

Perhaps they just are not needing them at the moment. What actual signs of deficiency are you seeing??? If they look great and act great, then... are they great? Maybe so...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, and it has been utterly impossible for me to keep moisture out of the minerals. We just have to do the best we can.


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## HJoy (Mar 22, 2018)

My goats are not real fans most of the year of loose minerals, but they do love their kelp and mixing the two will often convince them to eat it.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, I will have to ask around about Kelp. I've honestly not used it or looked into it. Is there anything I should know before I ask? lol

I'm sure I'm just being paranoid, and none of the little issues I've had are related. It just drives me crazy when I hear my friends say their goats eat the minerals, and I am over here throwing it out because the goats don't eat it then it gets wet. Ugh!
The random issues are, one doe has been fighting hoof rot all year, it keeps flaring up in a back foot. We get it healed, and comes up again. We're back to treating daily again. Mud is not helping anything, I am sure I will have more issues. The weather has been so strange this year


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> I will have to ask around about Kelp.


The first kelp I ever used came from the gardening section of a Big Box Store (Lowes, to be precise) This time of year I don't know if they'd still have it. If you do, it is a quick and easy way to find out if they'd like Kelp. Just be certain it is purely kelp, and not mixed with crabshell, etc.


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## dzt66 (Apr 9, 2018)

I am having the same problem. I just started doing loose minerals instead of the dumor block (still a new goat owner). 

My goats won’t go near the loose minerals.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

dzt66 said:


> I am having the same problem. I just started doing loose minerals instead of the dumor block (still a new goat owner).
> 
> My goats won't go near the loose minerals.


They will. As they need them, they will. You can definitely try the Kelp Meal idea.

Your goats are still wanting their block of molasses. They haven't figured this change out yet.

@HoosierShadow's issue is slightly different, because they WERE eating the mineral and have now stopped. We're trying to figure out why.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

When I bought minerals, in which my goats loved, I could barley keep up with having to put more loose minerals in there daily. 
Now, it is the same as you are dealing with, it seems as if they are not touching them or barely.
The goats look good, so I am assuming their bodies just don't need it right now and should go for them as needed.

Keeping them dry is about impossible, moisture in the air in the winter makes them damp. 
I don't know that it goes bad from being wet, but, changing out on occasion may be wise.

My husband made the PVC pipe feeder, and all the goats did was break it, within a couple of days, how, I do not know, so that idea failed me.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, I will find out if I can get Kelp locally. Tomorrow morning we're going to a livestock judging & showmanship clinic that a local feed store is hosting, the owner is really nice, and helpful (BIG supporter of 4-H/FFA kids too), so if anyone knows about getting Kelp locally, he would know. 

Although... after pondering my thoughts... I'm really thinking unless I see definite signs of problems, that I should leave them alone, at least until they kid, then give them a copper bolus if it's felt they definitely need it. I'm very paranoid at the idea of hurting them. It's really ironic that last year, I gave a doe a 4 gram copper bolus, a little selenium e gel & cd/t, and 2 days later she presented with toxemia. I'm sure it had nothing to do with what she was given, as her triplets were huge per necropsy, and they said that was the cause of her death. They couldn't test the liver because it was too badly corrupted (liver failed, and she bloated, it was horrible.. I'll never truly get over it). 
So encouraging them to eat minerals if they need it is what I feel is best. 
The protein/mineral tub won't be in until Wed, so hopefully it will work out. I will say, when we put one out last year, they absolutely loved it. Much more so than the little buckets from TSC that seemed to mold and go bad fairly quickly.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Mariarose - Something I forgot to mention. I know you use the one type of cattle mineral by Purina I believe? Wind, rain ? how does that hold up with moisture? Does it tend to get wet easily? I've been using goat specific minerals, but wondering if maybe I should try a cattle mineral.


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## willows (Dec 18, 2017)

I was about to give up after buying several different brands mine wouldn't touch when I tried Purina Wind and Rain from Tractor Supply. It doesn't get clumpy as fast and they love it.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I've been having the wet mineral battle too! My goats won't go near their loose minerals if they are even the slightest bit damp!! They love them when they are powdery and dry but if not, they won't touch them. At first I thought it was odd and I was very concerned about them not eating it, but there are a few things you can do to try and fix this.

Kelp meal is a great idea!!!! I feed my goats free choice minerals and kelp. The kelp is just on a hanging fence feeder and I just move it around daily to uncover the dryer stuff, although it seems like my goats eat it anyway.

What has really helped the moisture is this mineral feeder from Caprine Supply-https://www.caprinesupply.com/mineral-feeders.html

Just fill it up with a whole bag of minerals, and it keeps them flowing. So anytime your goat goes to lick the minerals, more come out. And it does a pretty good job of keeping the stuff inside dry. I also just move the minerals in it around daily to keep it dry and not clumped together. It helps to just turn over your minerals and release the dry stuff.

Also try and find the best brand of minerals for your goats, my goats really like MannaPro, but I've also heard that New Country Organics' are great!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> Mariarose - Something I forgot to mention. I know you use the one type of cattle mineral by Purina I believe? Wind, rain ? how does that hold up with moisture? Does it tend to get wet easily? I've been using goat specific minerals, but wondering if maybe I should try a cattle mineral.


Oh, shoot. I'm about to answer you giving my impression of a few different mineral mixes regaring weather, but I'm needed NOW!!!

I'll be back.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> Mariarose - Something I forgot to mention. I know you use the one type of cattle mineral by Purina I believe? Wind, rain ? how does that hold up with moisture? Does it tend to get wet easily? I've been using goat specific minerals, but wondering if maybe I should try a cattle mineral.


OK, I'm back. Sorry.

I've never been asked about the weather aspect of the different minerals before. So, this is fun...

As, well, practically everyone here knows, I hate Manna Pro. So I'm not gonna evaluate the weather worthiness of it.

I actually do not use any of the Purina minerals, although I have, and I would again, if I were not embarrassingly spoiled for excellent mineral mix choices.

Supreme Goat Mineral is my mineral of choice, from Tennesee Co-op. http://www.co-opfeeds.com/ourcoop08/feeds/products/goat/productDetail.aspx?fm=73 It is not a powder, more like small sand, and it handles our southern KY humidity quite well considering it isn't marketed on it's "weatherized" attributes. My goats do very well on it, and like it. They seem to get bored though, with any one mineral, so periodically, after several months, I buy something else.

I have used Southern States' Weathershed minerals. Maybe you have a Southern States around you? The goats liked them, but I had deficiency issues. I suspect it was the salt level. They got enough salt, so they were done. However, that may be the enticement you want. This was the beef minerals, I don't like their goat minerals at all. The Weatherizing seemed fine, not noticeably better than the Supreme, but fine. I also suspect that one reason the weatherizing was only fine is because the salt kept drawing in the moisture in the air.

I actually preferred Southern States' Genetic Expression for beef to the Traditionals. It also held up to weather fine, and I did not have the deficiencies. https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/c-2125-bagged-minerals.aspx

The national brands include the Purina minerals. The weatherizing on the Wind and Rain, Storm is superior to their All Purpose cattle minerals, definitely. Also definitely better than the Southern States Traditionals Weathershed. However, I quickly (within a couple of weeks) saw copper deficiency signs, so I started adding a handful of copper regularly to their water troughs to counteract it. Toward the end of the bag, they just lost all interest. I gave it to the cattle and bought a new bag of something different. But I switch things up on other mineral mixes, too.

It is very available. Not only do most TSCs have the ability to carry it, but 3 other feed stores within driving distance of our farm also carry it. I mention it a lot for just that reason. It is an excellent mineral that people can easily get their hands on. I had to supplement Copper and Selenium, but that is not unusual for me.

Cargill's Onyx. That is the best in wet, rainy weather. Honestly there is no question about that here on my farm. I have just now (yesterday) bought a bag of it for just that reason, as this autumn had defeated my ability to keep my other minerals (the Supreme) palatable. It was time for a periodic change anyway. I'll stay with the Onyx for a couple of months, probably. I can run my fingers through the top layer, breaking it up and the herd is right back at it, instead of just looking at me like, "That effort is SO inadequate, Mom!" The only deficiency they show on the Onyx is Selenium, never Copper.

The last brand I can mention, I can't really give you a good evaluation on. I love Sweetlix Meat Maker. But the last bag I bought was before they added weatherizing. Now they are weatherized, but I don't know how well.

I hope that helps, @HoosierShadow


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

2 people I know use the Wind and Rain, Storm, are @Jessica84 and @goathiker

@intrepid-dreamer uses it also, I THINK. Also ask @Suzanne_Tyler if she uses it? Perhaps they can be more specific about it. I haven't used it for over a year. So I may not have the most up-to-date experience of the weatherizing.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I'm curious, why do you hate MannaPro? I'm not a fan of the brand itself or the health aspects of their minerals, but my goats seem to love them!!!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm right in the middle of cooking, so I only have a moment, @NigerianDwarfOwner707

First of all, If you are happy with them, and see no deficiencies, then by all means I want you to stay happy. They certainly are easy to find, and I'd rather people give them than to give nothing.

Their boasting rights come from their ingredients. Excellent ingredients,(too much molasses, imo) but not enough of them, by a long shot.

I've seen far too many goats suffering deficiencies or dying from them because their owners believe that such a well known brand can be trusted, they think they must use goat specific minerals, and they buy into the hype the company puts out about how super duper bioavailable their ingredients are that they don't have to put enough in. And the unsuspecting buyers pay through the nose for the privilege of pouring money into trying to fix problems that they never associate with their minerals, because the problems are cumulative.

Take selenium, for one example. 12 ppm. Mine has 80 and I still need to supplement sometimes. Iodine. See any? Pretty awful mineral to not have enough of! No problem, you say. I'll feed an iodized salt block. Not if you follow the rather dour and stern feeding instructions. Here's part of them.

"Use manna pro goat mineral as the only source of free choice salt."

There are cheaper, better minerals out there that are not causing goat deaths and decreased productivity. Enough regular ingredients are better than not enough super-duper ingredients.

But, seriously, I'll never tell people to not do what is working for them. If you like them, then you like them. Blessings be upon your head. I mean that.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

I bait mine if the feeder is stayin full. Bait it with a tinny bit of grain stirred in and make it kinda flat so that i can see they have eaten some. Then recently got a new bag.. bucket got opened by dora the houdini with buckets and three of them were nommin in the bucket go figure.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Sfgwife 
New, like bringing home another bag? Or new, like a completely different product?


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

mariarose said:


> @Sfgwife
> New, like bringing home another bag? Or new, like a completely different product?


It was a new bag. Same watershed they have been havin. But since then houdini has opened the bucket and i have seen nibbles in it. So i dunno. I jus make sure every night i put the lid on it lol! Mine will eat the damp mineral when it is baited too. But it needs be in the feeder that is not foot high..... gardenia will kick it all out to get the grain lol! But in the higher one she will eat it out. Turds! All of them!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I actually saw a couple of the adult does eating minerals when we let them into their shelter this afternoon! I didn't get to check to see how much was gone, but that definitely made me happy!
hearing them licking at them, is a sound I love to hear lol.

Mariarose - THANK YOU for your thorough analysis and opinion on the minerals! I appreciate it! 
I don't think we can get anything like the Co-op minerals you like to use. Interesting about using the cattle minerals. I remember years ago we were using a feed store in Lexington, and they didn't sell goat minerals, so she suggested a cattle mineral and I have to say they did eat that whole bag with little waste! But we switched feed, and I couldn't remember what it was we had bought. My mistake on that part.
I try to stick with goat minerals, but more and more thinking cattle minerals are the way to go. 
The wind, rain, storm sounds good, but if you were having selenium and copper deficiencies then I'd be worried as it's one thing I worry about as well.
Can I ask what deficiency signs you see in yours?

I've heard good things about Onyx, but haven't tried that one yet.

Right now we are using Burkmann's goat minerals, and if we can get them to deliver it to our feed store, we may also switch to their goat pellets. 
Hopefully this will let you click on it to enlarge:









In the past, other than the cattle mineral we've tried another feed store's minerals years ago, they liked it until they changed it and made it medicated.
They absolutely do not like the Southern States goat minerals. Off and on with Manna pro, I still have almost a whole bag... Didn't care for the results from Purina goat minerals (copper deficiency), I tried some from our feed store, nada.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

What deficiencies did you lose when you used the SS genetic expressions from the weathershed? We use weathershed.... i have to copper mine every three months. And i selenium them every four. We are a crazy selenium poor county here.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Very interesting to hear your opinions. I do supplement with free choice kelp meal, and I'm sure without that, my goats' Iodine levels would probably be unacceptable. I believe there are many brands of minerals that are much better, such as New Country Organics' which I have heard some wonderful things about!!!! But, my goats are very picky, and they seem to love MannaPro, so for that reason I decided not to switch brands, although I do agree with much that you said. I currently supplement for copper and selenium because I do not trust MannaPro for that. I give it to them in herbs, so that way I know I'm not messing with the actual levels of copper oxide etc.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that, especially while cooking, I am always very interested to hear other people's opinions!!!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I am always very interested to hear other people's opinions!


And it is only my opinion. A considered opinion, but an opinion nonetheless. Keep your herd healthy and happy, you and I have no problem. But Manna Pro'll get no more moolah from me.

About New Country Organics... I have tried mightily to procure an adequate Guaranteed Analysis of their minerals and have been utterly ignored. Without that, I am left with the feeling that they want to ride on the coattails of the "certified organic" so prominently displayed and hope that we, the paying customer, do not notice that their analysis is so woefully inadequate as to beggar belief.

I like organic as much as the next normal human being, but it is no substitution for knowing basic levels of nutrition. This
http://www.newcountryorganics.com/shop/files/index/download/id/1524492460/ 
is the info they give us, and beyond which we are just supposed to trust them, because they are "certified organic". That does not mean they have adequate levels of selenium.

Again, I really have tried to get proper information and been COMPLETELY stymied. It isn't even a matter that I can order a bag and then look at the tag. No, that IS the tag. So I can't recommend them to anyone. The ordinary person probably can't look at those ingredients and deduce nutrient levels. Especially when those ingredients are not standardized, like Kelp.

If New Country Organics can tell me how much copper is in there, they can tell me how much zinc, how much cobalt, how much selenium, how much iodine. If they want my business anyway.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Sfgwife said:


> What deficiencies did you lose when you used the SS genetic expressions from the weathershed? We use weathershed.... i have to copper mine every three months. And i selenium them every four. We are a crazy selenium poor county here.


Copper really slowed down, the zinc disappeared. I still had selenium. The Supreme is the only one that almost makes the selenium disappear. Overall, I prefer the Supreme to any of them. Call Tennessee Co-op (link provided above) and see what they say about where they'll send it. You may be pleasantly surprised. I was.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> Mariarose - THANK YOU


You are so very welcome. As I said, no one has ever asked about the weatherized aspect before so it was different and fun.



HoosierShadow said:


> I don't think we can get anything like the Co-op minerals you like to use.


All I can say is, call them and see. You may be really surprised. I asked about my favourite store, and they said, yes, if they'll order it, we'll ship it there. Went from being sporadic and 1 1/2 hours away to always there 20 minutes away, and it really was that simple. I love it best, overall.



HoosierShadow said:


> The wind, rain, storm sounds good, but if you were having selenium and copper deficiencies then I'd be worried as it's one thing I worry about as well.


You might not have the same antagonist presence we do. If you want to try it, what do you have to lose. The levels are better than the Manna Pro or the Burkmanns.



HoosierShadow said:


> I've heard good things about Onyx, but haven't tried that one yet.


This was my go-to before the Supreme became always available. Try it, you may really like it.



HoosierShadow said:


> Right now we are using Burkmann's goat minerals,


I find that inadequate, and so I did not evaluate it for weather resistance like the others. I have it available 10 miles away and I was still willing to drive 1 1/2 hours away to find the Supreme. 
Of course, it helped that I also had the Cargill's Onyx 10 miles away at the time!

Click on the link, it shows the guaranteed analysis and the ingredients, compare them to the Burkmanns, see what you like better.

You have a fantastic herd. You've already shown us all what we need to strive for. All you are doing here is finetuning a great system.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, a lot of good info here.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Wow, a lot of good info here.


Aww, it is just me answering questions about my own observations.onder:

In other words, me being a blow hard...:haha:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I will write a better reply when I have more time, it's been a busy weekend!

I actually had to refill the adult does mineral feeder today! With cooler temps and lower humidity, I think that is helping the minerals stay dry.

This is the cattle mineral we used to use years ago, I'm not sure if they still make it or not.










Besides that I really am not sure about other minerals available in our area. I'm not seeing anything like the Supreme locally but will look more.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

http://hallwayfeeds.com/products
Can't find mineral yet.

All I can find is horse feed online. Nothing for cattle. Farmers Feed Mill, Inc, only leads me right back to Hallway.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Yeah, Hallway only advertises their horse feed, which is strange, since they sell feed and supplies for all species. The feed we are using now is/was slightly better than the feed Hallway offered, I want to say our feed has more fat or fiber. 

Below is the label for the feed we use now. 
Our young does are on full feed, they have alfalfa hay, clover/grass hay, their loose minerals, and a trace mineral lick. 
I'm debating on just giving them each a 2 gram copper bolus, as I am afraid of overdoing it. 

I did see one of the young does nibbling at minerals today, until she decided to nibble on my leg lol.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Are you seeing a harsh coat, or fading of color?, indicative of a copper shortage? A heavier worm load? Or is is just time for another bolus?

Since I had to go to my feed store again today, to pick up our mower that was being worked on, I got another bag of the Cargill's Onyx, so I'm good to go for a few weeks on minerals.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

I love reading these conversations about goat minerals! In the past, I searched for the recommended minerals and could not find any of them. But I did find the Purina rain amd storm at our TSC. So I bought a bag of that and the goats ate it up!! In the meantime, one of our smaller feed stores was able to get the Sweetlix Meatmaker. So I bought that and began using it. I just ran out of it and so glad because I think I dumped out way more than they ate! I will be picking up a bag of Rain and Storm again today. And hoping they love it again!

I have only been feeding minerals to my herd for a year. I learned about it from this site  My goats have had deficiency problems, particularly one doe. Thanks to the minerals and Replamin Plus, she is doing much better!

I'd like to come back to this topic again soon because I'd like feedback. And I'll let you all know if the goats go back to loving their minerals. My only complaint with the Rain and Storm is that when it gets rained on, it turns into a block and is hard to clean out of the feeder. I have some concreted minerals lining a couple of the feeders


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm glad you found something you like, @Kaylam and that it is helping your goats.

No loose minerals really should be actually rained on, though. Even the weatherized ones. Do you have any ability at all to put them under some sort of protection from precipitation?

Every winter I get these for my goats








So I have a lot of those buckets now. Those buckets are what I put my mineral mix in and I clip one so it stays mostly upright inside each shelter. I do have to scoop out the berries from time to time. I also have a cat litter bucket filled with minerals in my back yard. When it rains I cover it with an upside down laundry basket.

Here is another idea.








Covered from rain and snow, it swivels like a wind gauge so the opening is away from the wind.

Another idea








I'd face this one away from the prevailing wind direction.


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## dzt66 (Apr 9, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Every winter I get these for my goats


I was actually looking at these yesterday at TSC trying to figure out the plan for my first winter as a goat mama. I am going to make a post separately on that.

I would also like to thank @mariarose for helping with my mineral issues. For the first few days my goats wouldn't touch the loose minerals. I got the Purina rain and storm and now they are gobbling it up!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

dzt66 said:


> I was actually looking at these yesterday at TSC


If you have many goats, there are tubs that are much more economical but do the same thing. Only a few goats and these are better. Let me know on your new post what you are thinking.



dzt66 said:


> I got the Purina rain and storm and now they are gobbling it up!


Great! Don't be afraid, though, to switch it up once in a while. I think it does my goats good to learn they can get different minerals. Teaching them not to be so bound up can save your life if suddenly you can get what they need, but can't get what they are used to.



dzt66 said:


> I am going to make a post separately on that.


Mention me on your new post, 'cause I surely want to follow that journey!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Interesting you brought up the bucket from TSC. I just ordered Crystalix 60lb. goat tub today for myself and a friend. Our adult does are still slightly picking at their loose minerals, I'm starting to wonder if they are picking certain things out and leaving the rest. So I'm keeping an eye on it.

We have one doe I am not sure if she is deficient in copper or not. She's in that transition where she's getting a thick cashmere coat that generally takes over, so her dark red appearance with black highlights (sort of like horse dapples) is taken over by the lighter red winter coat and cashmere. I worry about over doing it with copper, so I don't want to give our pregnant does copper. I'm hoping if they need additional copper, they will get it from the tub.
The tub I feel also helped with toxemia last year - when we ran out of the tub, that's when I noticed issues with toxemia (does carrying decent sized triplets & middle/bottom of pecking order).

I had to do a lot of checking around to find the tub, this is horse country, so it's hard to find things. Thankfully one of our local feed stores is a dealer for Crystalix.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> I actually had to refill the adult does mineral feeder today!


Is this increased consumption continuing? Mine are almost gulping the minerals now. They are coming home in the evening with really full rumens, so they are still finding food, but the way they are heading right for those mineral buckets when they come home tells me they are wanting something besides the full bellies now.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I'm glad you found something you like, @Kaylam and that it is helping your goats.
> 
> No loose minerals really should be actually rained on, though. Even the weatherized ones. Do you have any ability at all to put them under some sort of protection from precipitation?
> 
> ...


These are great! Thank you. I only give a little minerals at a time and try to keep an eye on the weather. So if I know it's going to rain, I don't give it to them (but really, I should just go ahead and dump it out if it's a for sure rain).

I'll have to see about using one of the above ideas  For now, I use those black feeders with clips. At the moment, they're all outside. When I set up the kidding pens, I can hang them up in the Nanny Hut. But the bucks...we'll see. They may be the first to get the fancy mineral feeder, haha.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Kaylam Here is a cheap easy idea
https://www.giftsfromgoats.com/home/2018/5/29/cheap-easy-goat-mineral-feeder


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

Also mariarose, I thought that these protein tubs were frowned on due to the molasses and because it wasn’t adequate to meet their needs. So do you put them out during winter inplace of the minerals or in combination with the minerals. Why winter only?


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> @Kaylam Here is a cheap easy idea
> https://www.giftsfromgoats.com/home/2018/5/29/cheap-easy-goat-mineral-feeder


I like that. Great idea! I'll try it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Here is a variation, but stronger








I only use the protein supplement in the Winter, because that is when the protein content of the natural forage is very low, and so is the energy (sugar) content. Others use them at other times according to their needs.

Protein tubs and protein pails are NOT a mineral supplement, as said elsewhere. They are a protein and fat supplement with some (a bit) of minerals added. I must have free choice loose minerals.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Also, no supplement is adequate to needs. That is why they are meant to supplement the main feed regimen, not BE the main feed regimen. I need the extra in Winter, so that is when they get it.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Also, no supplement is adequate to needs. That is why they are meant to supplement the main feed regimen, not BE the main feed regimen. I need the extra in Winter, so that is when they get it.


Ok, makes sense. Thank you


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Kaylam said:


> Ok, makes sense. Thank you


Here's a very short article that may help someone understand what they are, and why they might be fed.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/know-how_pets-livestock_livestock-other_protein-tubs


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Here's a very short article that may help someone understand what they are, and why they might be fed.
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/know-how_pets-livestock_livestock-other_protein-tubs


Thank you, that is helpful. I noticed that TSC has the pictured protein tub on sale right now. A good day for shopping 

I'm curious, do you feed a pelleted ration as well? I'm just wondering if people typically use the protein tubs along with a goat ration.

At this time, I'm following the feeding schedule of a breeder that I purchased one of my bucks from and so they are getting a pelleted goat ration.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Kaylam said:


> do you feed a pelleted ration as well?


I don't, my feeding routine is in flux because of personal life issues. My base is natural forage (acres of forage, because I'm lucky) Hay when I can't supply the forage, and excellent, (I do mean excellent) loose mineral mix. Also I've started the protein tub I give for the winter.

I'm currently giving sprouted whole grains on the milk stand, but if you aren't coming on the stand, you are getting forage, hay, minerals, and that is it.

Other people do give a pelleted ration, and they are achieving their goals with that.

In a way, goatkeepers are some of the most fragmented segments of farming I can think of.

Goats need minerals, and I'm sticking with that through thick and thin!!!!

I can be more detailed with what you might need when, and only when, I have more information about what you are needing and giving.

And maybe I'm just pushing what I imagine you want to know onto you? I don't want to do that...

If your breeder knows what you want to do, and he/she is getting the results you want, then his/her advice is very valuable. Goals vary, locales vary, management practices vary. But we all love and want to profit from our goats.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@toth boer goats always gives a ration, but I don't know if she routinely gives a protein tub. Or ever.
@Jessica84 routinely gives a protein tub and does not always give a ration.
@HoosierShadow gives a protein tub in the Winter, and I think also gives a goat ration.
They are 3 breeders of Boers and have a lot to offer.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do give ration, but not the tub.
Was thinking about adding it someday, but never did.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Mariarose is correct I give the tubs and no grain/ ration to adults. You can give both they just MAY not eat very much of the tubs. It’ll really depend on the quality of forage/ hay and how much of the ration you are giving. So start with just one tub and see how it goes. It’s kinda one of those things they will eat it when they need it and it’s really cool to watch and see when they pig out on it and when they hardly touch it. Watch them when you first put it out though because it is a “feed change” it they totally pig out on it limit their access and slowly keep it out longer every day. If mine are on a pig out spree and they run out or TSC doesn’t have it in stock for awhile mine will get a little loose stools when they get it back.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I don't, my feeding routine is in flux because of personal life issues. My base is natural forage (acres of forage, because I'm lucky) Hay when I can't supply the forage, and excellent, (I do mean excellent) loose mineral mix. Also I've started the protein tub I give for the winter.
> 
> I'm currently giving sprouted whole grains on the milk stand, but if you aren't coming on the stand, you are getting forage, hay, minerals, and that is it.
> 
> ...


I was concerned about the bucks getting too much protein. The breeder gives 14% pelleted ration to her year old bucks. I already started that even though they were not quite a year old because I found some ADM of that % at a local small feed store. Before that, someone was special ordering the 18% ration but she had to stop.

This breeder has been breeding goats for about 20 years. They have some pretty nice goats and some ennoblements to boot. We talked a lot about feed and so I have patterned most of my feeding routine after her. As you have said, there seems to be a lot of variation in the goat world. I'm not opposed to changes if I need to make any 

At this time, our hay is mostly alfalfa. We purchased it from the same grower but he must have reseeded because it has a lot of alfalfa in it. It's supposed to be orchard grass and alfalfa. So after about a week, I noticed how fat they were getting and realized that I couldn't put out as much hay anymore. So I'm not sure if that makes a difference in the whole picture.

As for the ration. I wasn't giving the Mama's any since they aren't nursing but now they're with the boys so they are getting some. Though I cut back on how much I was giving the boys since the girls are with them and with that rich hay, it seemed like an "ok" idea.

We have the Rain and Storm Minerals again and now they're eating them again 

I wonder if I should give Protein tubs to the doelings, the Mama's, and not the bucks?

Thoughts?


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

Kaylam said:


> I was concerned about the bucks getting too much protein. The breeder gives 14% pelleted ration to her year old bucks. I already started that even though they were not quite a year old because I found some ADM of that % at a local small feed store. Before that, someone was special ordering the 18% ration but she had to stop.
> 
> This breeder has been breeding goats for about 20 years. They have some pretty nice goats and some ennoblements to boot. We talked a lot about feed and so I have patterned most of my feeding routine after her. As you have said, there seems to be a lot of variation in the goat world. I'm not opposed to changes if I need to make any
> 
> ...


...I could take pictures of labels if needed.

Summary of current feed and routine:
Alfalfa/orchard grass hay
ADM 14% goat ration 
Purina Rain and Storm Minerals 
Handful of sunflower seeds per goat per day (less for doelings). Just because they like it 
Replamin Plus Gel and Probios (5cc ea. and typlically 1x per week)

Mama's 18% protein ration (MFA) during last month pregnancy and through nursing.

Kids creep feed 18% protein (MFA) and lots of ration 2x/day. I really should figure out a measurement but I haven't and their weight looks great!

The MFA store is just our Missouri Farmers Association brand. It's less expensive than the ADM and I often wonder if it's really that different. But I will say, the goats eat the ADM better! My boys hardly touched the MFA - it was not fit for royalty, haha.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, I wish I had your hay, I really, really do.

It is certainly fine to give the girls something you don't give the boys.

If everyone looks and acts to your satisfaction and your budget allows for this, then I'd say you are fine with what you are doing.

My goats move, a lot, they don't get concentrates. I wasn't able to get great hay this year, so I'm going to have to give alfalfa pellets again, but not yet. So the protein levels aren't anywhere near what you are providing. Their shelters are open to the south and so they need the extra fat and energy in the winter they get from the tubs. I've only ever had 1 case of toxemia, ever.

I'm of the opinion that anything can work, if we know enough to adjust the other things that impact it. I'm thinking if you are giving that much nutrition and energy in your other feed, you don't need protein tubs, especially if you don't see a lack anywhere.

Become aware of the signs of toxemia, if you aren't already.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Feel free to send me some of that hay.


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Oh, I wish I had your hay, I really, really do.
> 
> It is certainly fine to give the girls something you don't give the boys.
> 
> ...


Thank you  I have looked up toxemia and will do it again as their time draws near... that's part of the reason for the withdrawal and then small amount of pelleted ration for them.

The hay is actually $3.50/bale. It is a coworker of my husband who grows it for his horses and sells a bit on the side. I've seen the prices of alfalfa and so I know that I pay a crazy low price even for any kind of hay. I'm looking around the area to find enough hay to last over the winter. So I'll probably make adjustments once I get it and see how they look. Right now everyone looks great. I have had to add alfalfa pellets in the past and I'll see if I need to again with the new hay.

Thank you for your time and input! And to the others as well!! It helps my confidence ️


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Feel free to send me some of that hay.


I'll trade...hay for pasture


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

mariarose said:


> Feel free to send me some of that hay.





Kaylam said:


> The hay is actually $3.50/bale.


I Hate you now...


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## Kaylam (Jan 31, 2017)

mariarose said:


> I Hate you now...


Oh no, I don't like this, haha!! I spend too much money on these goats... the $3.50/bale is my only advantage


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@HoosierShadow could we ask for an update? Are they eating minerals now, and if so, which ones are currently in favour?


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