# Should I buy this doe??



## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

http://www.agapeoaks.com/herd-book/senior-does/161-2/

Click on the link to see her. She is a very accomplished doe, I just want to know what you guys think? Be cruel!  No, but seriously, be honest as possible. I bought a doe kid out of her awhile back but sold her. She isn't for sale right now because she is due to kid soon I think... Anyways Lemme know!


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## pelicanacresMN (Dec 29, 2009)

How could you not buy her lol! Just look at all of her accomplishments, I'd take her in a heartbeat! She's obviously proven herself in the showring, linear appraisal & milk--what more could you ask for


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## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

Yes, but is she worth $750? That's what the lady wants for her... But, that is a bred price and she is keeping her till she kids so she may be cheaper open... onder:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

750 bred but she keeps her till she kids? thats a bit fishy


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

is she a nice doe? yes. would i pay 750 for her? NO. she's nice, but IMO herudderis set pretty low, even if itsattached well


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## pelicanacresMN (Dec 29, 2009)

That's a lot of $$$! The most I've ever paid was either $450 or $475 and some of my $250/300 purchases are just as good or better


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## AlaskaBoers (May 7, 2008)

she's won AGS national Jr Grand Champion. a title like that says she may be worth it.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

I've paid over $1,000 for good breeding stock and that was for unproven kids. This doe has proven to be a nice doe....my question is "why is she selling her?" What is she producing? Does she have any of her kids that you can look at? Does she out produce herself or is she one of those does that is great to look at but produces subpar? The great thing about buying an adult is you can go into it with your eyes wide open. If she is a great producer, I'd say heck ya she's worth every penny. :drool:


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Has she been health tested? I wouldn't pay that much for any animal until the breeder showed me recent CAE, CL and Johnes results....she's definitely old enough that she should have been tested a couple of times. If she were $350 or $400 I would pay out of my own pocket to have her tested but ANY animal in the $700 and up range should definitely already be tested at the cost of the breeder. IMO


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Agape Oaks is one of the TOP breeders in our area. 

I would assume that they'd been tested for sure. They have extremely good stock and win a lot in the shows.


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

Epona142 said:


> Agape Oaks is one of the TOP breeders in our area.
> 
> I would assume that they'd been tested for sure. They have extremely good stock and win a lot in the shows.


Assume nothing ...especially at that price!!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

StaceyRoop said:


> 750 bred but she keeps her till she kids? thats a bit fishy


If she's due to kid soon, it sounds responsible to me. :shrug: I wouldn't sell a doe that is going to kid soon.

I've paid over $750 for a well bred, proven doe. She looks well bred and proven, and looks pretty nice overall. However, her udder from that photo doesn't look as nice as I would expect for that kind of money. Conformation wise, she looks good, but has a steep rump, imo. But if she outproducers herself and her kids are really nice then I wouldn't mind paying that much, if you are sure she's going to be excellent for your breeding program.

Agree with making sure she's tested before purchasing.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

From their home page:



> Our goats health is very important to us. We test routinely for CAE -our most recent negative test was April 2010. We also tested negative for TB & Brucellosis April 2010.


When I meant assume, I didn't mean buy without knowing for sure! I only meant I was sure they did the testing, but didn't have time to look.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Epona142 said:


> From their home page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't mention testing for CL and Johnes.... high price tag for that risk imo. BUT.... I do agree that she may not have updated recently and there is no harm in asking to be sure.  Not to mention... even if she hasn't tested for those 2 diseases... If asked she might be willing to do so for a buyer when they are looking at investing that kind of $.  :angel2:


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

Is the testing for CL very accurate? I've heard otherwise but don't know much about it honestly.

Johnes is very uncommon down here now, but that's a good point, I'd like to see testing for that as well on such a high priced doe. Not worth taking a risk on!


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

Epona142 said:


> Is the testing for CL very accurate? I've heard otherwise but don't know much about it honestly.
> 
> Johnes is very uncommon down here now, but that's a good point, I'd like to see testing for that as well on such a high priced doe. Not worth taking a risk on!


I was just looking to purchase a doe from out that way... I don't bring in stock before I have them tested.... had a vet draw her blood and send it to our lab here in CA (UC Davis) to test for CAE, CL and Johnes ..... the doe came back positive for both CAE and CL. So yes, the ELISA blood test can and does pick up CL. SCARY, SCARY.... I have never been so relieved to lose $100! :sigh:

I however would NOT trust any results from PAV lab. They are known for false positves and false negatives.... very inaccurate laboratory from what I've seen and heard.


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> 750 bred but she keeps her till she kids? thats a bit fishy


Nothing fishy at all...I know this breeder personally and I know why she is selling. Her herd had gotten fairly large and she was maintaining a licensed dairy on top of working full time. She also suffered a very tough loss last year when a buckling that she waited 2 years to buy came doing with urinary calculi and she wasn't able to save him. It all got to be too much work and stopped being enjoyable, so she decided to drastically cut down on the number of animals she had and to stop selling milk as well. From what she has told me, her plan is to sell all but a few does and is keeping one or two bucks.

Most of the ones she put up for sale are gone already, there are just a few left including this doe.

She has had Oreo up for sale for quite a while, originally she was priced at $1,000 bred, then she dropped her down to $750. She has been up for sale for long enough that she is close to kidding, so Pam probably just doesn't want to have her transported anywhere and risk harming the doe.

I've been to her place and seen her set-up, she takes very good care of her goats and they were all healthy and happy. We run into her at pretty much every show we go to and she has some very nice animals...she's usually up near the front of the line.

As for the doe herself and whether she is worth the price...that I can't really speak on as I guess it depends on your breeding goals, what bloodlines you are working with, etc. Plus, I am still getting a handle on judging udder, conformation, etc... so I won't claim to be an expert in that area yet by a long shot! <G> I can say that I liked her well enough that I bought one of her doelings from her last kidding (quad does!).


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Also forgot to add, I would bet good money that Pam already has recent test results available, but I know for a fact that she'd be more than willing to re-test if you asked. She's definitely not just a random backyard goat breeder, she is very active in the regional show scene and participates in programs like the linear appraisals, milk tests, etc. Her main focus has been on milk production, so she gets pretty intense about those milk test scores.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that there are lots of got breeders out there that I would be very cautious about buying from because they are unknown or they have no reputation built up, yet, but Agape Oaks is not one of them.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

cyanne said:


> Also forgot to add, I would bet good money that Pam already has recent test results available, but I know for a fact that she'd be more than willing to re-test if you asked. She's definitely not just a random backyard goat breeder, she is very active in the regional show scene and participates in programs like the linear appraisals, milk tests, etc. Her main focus has been on milk production, so she gets pretty intense about those milk test scores.
> 
> What I'm saying, I guess, is that there are lots of got breeders out there that I would be very cautious about buying from because they are unknown or they have no reputation built up, yet, but Agape Oaks is not one of them.


 :thumbup: Always good to hear about breeders that care for their stock and what they are producing. 

Sad that she lost her buck....I would be devastated if I lost one of my boys. :tears: I need to go hug a buck now!!!


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

Yep, I felt so bad for her when that happened because I knew how long she had waited for a buck out of that doe and how attached she was to him. He was out of MCH - GCH Gay-Mor's JJU Nonpareil 4*D (1*M) 'E'. Gorgeous doe, and the waiting list for her kids is about a mile long. I think Pam told me she had waited 2 yrs or more for him.

Then, he comes down with UC and even though she and the vet tried everything to save him, she lost him anyway. I can't imagine how that would feel...

At least he did manage to breed one batch of does before she lost him, and I am pretty sure she has kept almost all of the kids from that batch, even after downsizing.


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## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

Yep, Pam is great, I bought a doeling out of Oreo and Flat Rocks Gem's legacy, I own Gem's Legacy now, and sold the little doeling thats why I was considering buying Oreo. I also bought Flat Rocks Bling Bling, Legacy's half sister. I love all the animals I have gotton from her and she is a great person to do business with! I don't think I need another doe right now though... I found a buck I have my heart set on! He is a son of MCH/GCH Sugar Creek PT Show Tunes 1*M EEEE 91. :shocked: :shocked: :leap: :drool: :drool: He is the littermate brother of the buck Ellen Dorsey of Dill's A-Little-Goat-Farm has. and get this, he has lives about 30 miles away from me for 3 years and I never knew!! :stars: :stars:


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## cyanne (Jan 7, 2009)

A littermate of XM? Ooooooooooh :drool: 

I just bought a doe from Ellen that will be bred to him before I pick her up...I also have another buck that is a descendant of his (my buck's sire is his grand-son). I brought in a couple of other Dill's does earlier this year and I'm pretty excited to see what they can do.

My doe, Cookies n' Cream is out of Oreo and Gem's Legacy as well, born 2009, so she might be a littermate of the doeling you had.


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## mnspinner (Aug 13, 2008)

I wouldn't question the quality of this doe nor the breeer's fine reputation as far as I am aware.
However, this doe HAS been available for a long long time. Perhaps others have found her price a bit steep as well. Is she firm on the price? I guess it depends on how badly she wants to sell her and how badly you want her. Maybe once Oreo kids her price will drop?


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## pelicanacresMN (Dec 29, 2009)

We have a bunch of goats that have Show Tunes in the lines..as do many of the other Minnesota breeders. I love everything out of those lines!


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## carrie430 (Apr 13, 2010)

Pam is great......i got a doe out of OreoXGem also and im in love with her, she took her off the sale list becuase she usually has quads and quints and she started lookin rather large, so since no one was interested yet she decided to keep her cuz she didnt want anything to go wrong, I cant wait to go to her place, i havnt been yet but i plan to get another doe from her


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## logansmommy7 (Nov 11, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> 750 bred but she keeps her till she kids? thats a bit fishy


I would think $750 and you don't keep the kids might be a bit much-at least for me! She is a NICE doe though...


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## Hidden Waters Farm (Oct 3, 2010)

Logansmommy7 -

I dont see where it states the owner keeps the kids that are born. 

Like cyanne said, shes probably holding her until she kids for the does sake. That doesnt mean they all cant be on their way home a few days after kidding. Shes a good breeder in my opinion and its a good idea not to stress a pregnant doe.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think my question would be how fast you could recoup that $750 in this economy. Will your location support higher priced goats? If she has males and you get them, would they be easy to sell as bucks?


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## Alexis (Nov 21, 2010)

She looks really nice. Any kidding problems in her history?


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

This thread's from November guys.


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## nigerianmeadows (Dec 12, 2010)

Hahaha! That's funny


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