# What we have learned



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We moved to farm life 16 years ago. We are not the same people lol. This post is to share what we have learned and or wish we new in the beginning. Maybe it will help a newbie or even a seasoned farmer. Does not have to be about goats. 
I'll start:
We came to Texas thinking we wanted to raise Alpacas (because they are stinking adorable) ended up raising goats, because 2 of my boys could not drink cows milk. We have made a bizillion mistakes that cost us lots of money. What we learned, I hope, is have a plan. Know what your end game is...or hope to be and aim everything you do toward that goal. Ex: I can not tell you how many times fences have been moved because it just didn't work. That is a ton of labor and often money when you need replacement parts! 
My husband's advice would be...don't make everything a pet. We feed 6 dogs now, several cats, five donkeys and 3 horses..all except the cats ..don't work here lol. We just feed them. 😉 
Your turn...go.....


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## Rancho Draco (Sep 29, 2021)

I might think of something else to add later but for now I just want to second having a plan for fences BEFORE you actually have anything on the ground! Moving fence is so much work and life is so much easier if you only have to do it once. Think of how you want to connect pastures, where you want to be able to walk through, and where you may need access for a truck and trailer, how to get to barn/shelter from each pasture, etc.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Bucks, they don’t lie about all the maintenance! We bought a buck totally ignorant of well… basically everything about them. He’s was so cute tho! Only two months old, a little squirt! And then…. He grew…. Two accidental pregnancies and multiple fence repairs later….bye-bye billy! Anyway we learned we will NEVER own a buck again, and they require much more extensive fencing and maintenance then does and wethers!


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## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

What I've learned...plans always change. 
My family has lived on this place for 30+ years, and done lots of different things. So make your pasture gates big enough to fit a concrete truck through, and your barn doors big enough to at least fit a wheelbarrow through. I am insisting on this with everything we do from here on out! 
Also, have at least one pen on your place that your animals absolutely can not escape from. This gives you a safe place to acclimate new animals, or to put up animals who have suddenly decided to go see the world, while you figure out your next steps.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

One of our biggest goofs was learning about bucks. I still insist on having one but this last time around we knew to build a sturdy pen, give him a wether companion and a place to go inside in bad weather. We also put his pen within the pasture so if he escaped he was still on our property. 
Things worked out much better than in the 80's when our stinky fully horned guy would open the gate and explore the neighborhood (much to the chagrin of our neighbors.)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Eye candy does not always work out!!
When we first started buying goats..we went by how pretty they were. We learned that pretty flashy girls don't always fill the milk bucket. And adga papers don't fill a bucket either. Good milking genetics, udder formation and the over all conformation of the goat matters. A good udder attachment and solid conformation adds life to the goat. They can be in service longer because their body and udder hold up. So I will take a plain Jane who is solid in both and who fills my bucket than a pretty flashy doe who lacks. 😁 Now having both...that is a bonus!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Do it right the first time. I am a big believer in making your fences big enough and strong enough. Since I have horses and goats I wanted fencing that would work and be safe for both. Always a fan of fencing that not only keeps your animals in but other people's animals out. When we were on other family land or rental property I had no control over my fencing. It has taken forever at the new place but slowly getting there. Also huge fan of large gates. Even like others said above I want trucks with trailers and heavy equipment to move through gates with ease. So everything is a 16 foot gate. Drainage is important. Make barn and stalls designed to save steps. Less steps you have to take the more time you can spend with your animals. Yes buck lots are nice and friends are nice. Always had 3 breeding lots and 3 bucks until we down sized. Now I only have 1 buck and a few girls. My husband knows anything I get I keep for life but kids born are here to be sold. With keeping a few for replacement does. My husband would sale anything but he knows I won't allow it. 

I have resigned the new barn 8 different options until we finally picked the one style that would work best for our needs.

So in short don't worry about how long it takes but taking your time and doing it right will save future headaches. Needless to say we just started leveling for the New barn site a couple weeks ago and picked the barn layout. Had not cross fenced yet waiting to finalize the plan.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh gosh I could probably write a book on this topic lol
On the topic of fencing. I was good and put up good fencing. Kinda wish I had done it a little differently but nothing I can’t work with. But what I had no concept of is just how destructive goats are! Just the rubbing and climbing and everything goats do has really taken a toll on my poor fence. I wish I had started out having hot fence up from the very beginning. The one thing I do wish I had done differently when I put the fencing up though was instead of two large pastures I wish I had split them up more. It just seems like I never have enough pens when I really need them.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Yes luckily we installed the good fencing first! It's like a cattle pannel but with smaller opening on the bottom...


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Minerals when we first started we didn't realize they need minerals lol... I know bad on us but we quickly learned thanks to me that goats need minerals, as well as a good variety of food!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

We lost a number of kids due to selenium deficiency. We learned to make sure they got it from the start. Along with a spice mix that kept away cocci.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

One thing I wish I knew about from the first is The Goat Spot. I was all alone in the beginning and made too many mistakes listening to locals who really had no clue either. What I learned, often the hard, way is Google doesn't have all the answers, but I READ EVERYTHING, Cross reference, asked questions, talk with my vet and when I had all that before me...I decide what course of action is best....wrote it down and stuck with it. I tweaked things as I learned better ways. We all know there is more than one way..choose what works best for your herd.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

happybleats said:


> One thing I wish I knew about from the first is The Goat Spot. I was all alone in the beginning and made too many mistakes listening to locals who really had no clue either. What I learned, often the hard, way is Google doesn't have all the answers, but I READ EVERYTHING, Cross reference, asked questions, talk with my vet and when I had all that before me...I decide what course of action is best....wrote it down and stuck with it. I tweaked things as I learned better ways. We all know there is more than one way..choose what works best for your herd.


Same here! Couldn't have said it better!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So true.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Double ditto on finding TGS! People here have saved my sanity and my goats more than once 🤗 👏 🤗


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I came here at an invitation from the original owner of the site- Stacey. She invited all from another decent site that was being closed. But, before that, there was really nothing.
Life would be so much more difficult if it were not for TGS and the great mods and decency from all the posters. I don't do FB etc. so this is my only "social" place I read or post. Everyone
is very non judgemental and knowledgeable! It's great! Thank you!!!! 

I learned a long time ago that some of the most important things a goat owner (or any livestock owner) needs to learn is how to take a temp. and how to give shots safely and correctly.
I also learned that some people don't want to learn that, they want you to do it- that is fine once or twice, but, everyone needs to depend on their own talents and not expect others to 
do basic medical care on their goats.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What I have learned....CAE, not testing your herd does not change the outcome. If they are positive or negative, you have got to know! What _*not *_testing does do, is spread the disease. Early on before I even knew about CAE or testing, i fed multiple bottle babies with milk from my girls. When a friend scolded me and told me how important testing was. BUT, I argued my goats looked and acted healthy!! They didn't show any signs of CAE! She said, didn't mean they were CAE free. Then a 4 year old Doe got a swollen knee. We had her tested and she was positive. Broke my heart. I had Does raised on her milk..who after testing were Positive. By the end of testing we had 5 total adults ( including the original Doe) and a pen full of bottle babies. That is on me!! SO test!! A simple blood test on goats over 6 months old can give you peace of mind!. Which brings me to a second point...Learning to pull blood. As scary as it may seem, pulling blood your self will first off, save moola!! And second will be an encouraging factor to test more. Read, watch you tube and or find a friend who knows how and have them teach you!! 

Best wishes


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> I came here at an invitation from the original owner of the site- Stacey. She invited all from another decent site that was being closed. But, before that, there was really nothing.
> Life would be so much more difficult if it were not for TGS and the great mods and decency from all the posters. I don't do FB etc. so this is my only "social" place I read or post. Everyone
> is very non judgemental and knowledgeable! It's great! Thank you!!!!
> 
> ...


I forget exactly how I found the site but if I remember it was after a friends horse forum closed and I was looking for another farm friendly chat group. Honestly can't remember if it was suggested to me or if I just found it but everyone here is so amazing and nice. We all play well together even if our does push each other around in the field the owners get along lol.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

One thing I learned is _do not mess with a goat's horns!_

I got this bit of old wisdom from somewhere shortly after we got our first goat, Cuzco. Having a background in horse training, I immediately disregarded this advice and decided that I should desensitize my goat to horn handling. Turns out the old timers were right! Handling a goat's horns doesn't desensitize them, it _sensitizes_ them! I began to discover this after a few months and I changed my ways, but a certain amount of damage had already been done and Cuzco never truly trusted people with his horns, and people had good reason not to trust him with his horns either. 

Nowadays when we go to a show I put a sign on my packgoats' stall that says:

Did you know that grabbing us by the horns can make us angry? 
Horns are our protection! 

Grabbing them is seen as a threat or challenge. 
Look at it this way: If you had a gun on your hip, would you feel
comfortable if a stranger walked up and snatched it? 
We are friendly and trusting and we want to stay that way.
Please respect our horns when petting us and we will respect you too.


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

When designing, building stuff for animals, the first priority is obviously whether it is the best for the animals. But a close second (that is often forgotten) is to make it easy to clean. Cleaning is never a fun activity. So I do my best to make everything as easy to clean as possible, even if it costs a little more or it takes a little longer to build.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Boy there's so many things that I could say. I agree with some much that has been said and seeking good advice. With my friend who said trust your gut. With whoever mentioned a good mineral I love my dura firm concept aid. With so many others I morn what I didn't know when I first started out. Nor did I ever think that I would have to watch and make sure my bucks peed right once a week and balance their grain and alfalfa. So many odd things come to mind. I think that is where I will land. Learn your goats and what's normal and don't hesitate if something is off because time is crucial with goats. To go along with that you need a really well stocked medicine mineral and probiotic supply. I would have said shelf but mine extends several shelves in a cabinet not to mention an entire drawer in the refrigerator. While many may not go that far it really is crucial to have some basic in hand: antibiotics thiamine B complex bantamine dexamethasone, CD&T antioxin and BoviSera, wormers, electrolytes, sweetened condensed milk... Oh boy, I better stop.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree ^^^ better to have it on hand and never use it than need it and not have it. I admit I get excited tossing an unopened medication that went bad.
Don't forget a handful of thermometers!! Does not have to be the expensive animal ines..grab several digital (not the rapid read kind) and keep one in the house, barn, car. Jacket pocket, Your spouses pocket...I would even get your kids used to carrying one around lol.


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## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

luvmyherd said:


> We lost a number of kids due to selenium deficiency. We learned to make sure they got it from the start. Along with a spice mix that kept away cocci.


OK, I've got to know about the spice mix that keeps away cocci!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am away from home for a few days. When I get back I will look up the recipe. (I think I may have gotten the original here.) Then I will write the story. It worked wonders.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

What I learned: there will always be something we either hate to do or are afraid to do. But it needs to be done either way!! 
For me,, it was learning to do shots and draw blood. 
I used to be so terrified to even open a drawer if it had needles in it. Ugh. Gave me the goose bumps. So my oldest daughter did all the shot giving here. But when she married and moved away...I had to do it. I made myself get over the anxiety of looking at needles. I also had to learn to draw blood. Having the vet out everytime I wanted testing done was costly! So I ordered a kit. I tried on a few goats to no avail to draw blood. I did manage to stab myself with the needle..got mad and said forget it!! I put my kit away and about a year later shared my story with a friend of my failed attempt to draw blood. She took me to the barn and she showed me how to draw blood and that it wasn't that hard or scary. When she left. My daughter and I drew blood on 11 more goats!!


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Well, I find drawing the blood a bit hard stupid goat veins move. So if you have two people and you get that head up and to the right it sure helps.


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## Goatowne (Sep 14, 2021)

happybleats said:


> We moved to farm life 16 years ago. We are not the same people lol. This post is to share what we have learned and or wish we new in the beginning. Maybe it will help a newbie or even a seasoned farmer. Does not have to be about goats.
> I'll start:
> We came to Texas thinking we wanted to raise Alpacas (because they are stinking adorable) ended up raising goats, because 2 of my boys could not drink cows milk. We have made a bizillion mistakes that cost us lots of money. What we learned, I hope, is have a plan. Know what your end game is...or hope to be and aim everything you do toward that goal. Ex: I can not tell you how many times fences have been moved because it just didn't work. That is a ton of labor and often money when you need replacement parts!
> My husband's advice would be...don't make everything a pet. We feed 6 dogs now, several cats, five donkeys and 3 horses..all except the cats ..don't work here lol. We just feed them. 😉
> Your turn...go.....


I moved to the farm about a year ago. Previous owner didn't have a way to keep their 2 horses ( no trained) and I say I will take care of them. I don't have any experience with farm animals but now they both kiss me, let me pet them and even call me in the morning when I take longer than usual to go outside. 
Then I built 3 big shelters hurricane proof with good ventilation and concrete floor. ( I regret the concrete floor) I am in Florida the humidity level is pretty high. Then I decided to purchase 4 goats then I purchased 3 more and then 4 more. With no help from Vet I decided to get to The Goat Spot . I lost one of my babies her name was princess I still missed her every day and her sister misses her to she still doesn't want to sleep next to anyone so I go next to her every morning at 11:00 AM and she sleep next to me while I pet her. 
Then I met a lady in this forum her name is HAPPYBLEATS and she help me to get my girls back to healthy and everything was through the Goat Forum Chat. Many other people have helped me to in this chat here it feels warm and sometimes like we are a group to support and help each other . Thank you to all of you I wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR full of good health 😊


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I bet if a poll was taken- more people "fell" into goats either on purpose or accidentally than were raised on a farm. This is a wonderful site to learn stuff and 
not feel like you will be criticized if you don't do it "the right way", like there is a perfect way for every goat!

Happy New Year to everyone!


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

Goats Rock said:


> I bet if a poll was taken- more people "fell" into goats either on purpose or accidentally than were raised on a farm. This is a wonderful site to learn stuff and
> not feel like you will be criticized if you don't do it "the right way", like there is a perfect way for every goat!
> 
> Happy New Year to everyone!


Well my uncle had goats when I was growing up but when we moved to the big farm to reclaim the land I wanted a goat to help with the clean up. Had two given to me pygmys and then finally got into my beloved Nubians. 

The farm was so grown up there were full antique tractors hidden in the grass I kid you not.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

How fun of a find was that!!


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Goatowne said:


> I moved to the farm about a year ago. Previous owner didn't have a way to keep their 2 horses ( no trained) and I say I will take care of them. I don't have any experience with farm animals but now they both kiss me, let me pet them and even call me in the morning when I take longer than usual to go outside.
> Then I built 3 big shelters hurricane proof with good ventilation and concrete floor. ( I regret the concrete floor) I am in Florida the humidity level is pretty high. Then I decided to purchase 4 goats then I purchased 3 more and then 4 more. With no help from Vet I decided to get to The Goat Spot . I lost one of my babies her name was princess I still missed her every day and her sister misses her to she still doesn't want to sleep next to anyone so I go next to her every morning at 11:00 AM and she sleep next to me while I pet her.
> Then I met a lady in this forum her name is HAPPYBLEATS and she help me to get my girls back to healthy and everything was through the Goat Forum Chat. Many other people have helped me to in this chat here it feels warm and sometimes like we are a group to support and help each other . Thank you to all of you I wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR full of good health 😊


Here here! @Goatowne you will have friends here that will always hear you out, offer advice and help with heartache.


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## Goatowne (Sep 14, 2021)

Tanya said:


> Here here! @Goatowne you will have friends here that will always hear you out, offer advice and help with heartache.


Thank you 😊


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

happybleats said:


> One thing I wish I knew about from the first is The Goat Spot. I was all alone in the beginning and made too many mistakes listening to locals who really had no clue either. What I learned, often the hard, way is Google doesn't have all the answers, but I READ EVERYTHING, Cross reference, asked questions, talk with my vet and when I had all that before me...I decide what course of action is best....wrote it down and stuck with it. I tweaked things as I learned better ways. We all know there is more than one way..choose what works best for your herd.


i'm still kind of new here but i wish that i knew TGS before, i'm realizing that i have wrong things that i already made and some mistakes that could be fixed. For example, under my goats there's soil(in my garage) the locals said that it's better with soil, i came here and saw the amonia thing... catastrophic i dont even know how i'm gonna remove all this dirt from underneath my goats.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

Do you have access to any type of like compaction Rock? We have limestone compaction rock around here and I put a layer of that that several inches thick to give the moisture somewhere to go. Then any bedding that is on top of that can be removed and hauled off when you are cleaning the barn.


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

luvmyherd said:


> I am away from home for a few days. When I get back I will look up the recipe. (I think I may have gotten the original here.) Then I will write the story. It worked wonders.


Did you find this?


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

TripleShareNubians said:


> Do you have access to any type of like compaction Rock? We have limestone compaction rock around here and I put a layer of that that several inches thick to give the moisture somewhere to go. Then any bedding that is on top of that can be removed and hauled off when you are cleaning the barn.


the good thing is that there's no moisture under them, it's always dry overthere but i'm just wondering how i'm gonna remove a layer of 20 inches all over the garage. i moved the soil there using a caterpillar lollll


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

@mark.b.matar my barn is dirt floor. I prefer over wood or concrete. Our barn is open and we have a room at the end of it for more wind and rain protection. We clean often and use good amount of bedding. There are things like barn lime and sweet pmz that helps reduce ammonia


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Why do you have to remove the soil? What were you hoping to replace it with?


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

happybleats said:


> @mark.b.matar my barn is dirt floor. I prefer over wood or concrete. Our barn is open and we have a room at the end of it for more wind and rain protection. We clean often and use good amount of bedding. There are things like barn lime and sweet pmz that helps reduce ammonia


i'll be asking about barn lime, thanks!
i'll try to remove the dirtiest layer of soil maybe?


Damfino said:


> Why do you have to remove the soil? What were you hoping to replace it with?


underneath the soil there's concrete, that's why i'm angry a bit about it, but since happybleats says it's ok with dirt if cleaned well then i think i'll do so


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## TripleShareNubians (Nov 5, 2021)

I would rather have them on a little bit of dirt and just change out bedding then on straight concrete


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

TripleShareNubians said:


> I would rather have them on a little bit of dirt and just change out bedding then on straight concrete


that's good news! i'll start by tomorrow cleaning as much as i can and have a good time with the does


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

My barn has a concrete floor and I would not trade it for dirt. I admit that this is my only experience, so I cannot compare anecdotally.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I like dirt more than concrete. It's messier and dustier, and a little harder to clean, but it's much warmer and softer than concrete and it's absorbent. If the dirt is 20 inches deep you shouldn't have to worry about saturation. Ammonia problems arise when the soil and/or bedding is saturated with urine (which can happen on concrete too if the bedding is not cleaned often enough). Your dirt is deep enough to allow drainage so the liquid can disperse and dry out. That's the important thing.


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## mark.b.matar (Jan 3, 2022)

Damfino said:


> I like dirt more than concrete. It's messier and dustier, and a little harder to clean, but it's much warmer and softer than concrete and it's absorbent. If the dirt is 20 inches deep you shouldn't have to worry about saturation. Ammonia problems arise when the soil and/or bedding is saturated with urine (which can happen on concrete too if the bedding is not cleaned often enough). Your dirt is deep enough to allow drainage so the liquid can disperse and dry out. That's the important thing.


😍 😍 awesome, to be on the safe side i will throw limestone soon(and reguraly) that would be enough?


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## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

Damfino said:


> I like dirt more than concrete. It's messier and dustier, and a little harder to clean, but it's much warmer and softer than concrete and it's absorbent. If the dirt is 20 inches deep you shouldn't have to worry about saturation. Ammonia problems arise when the soil and/or bedding is saturated with urine (which can happen on concrete too if the bedding is not cleaned often enough). Your dirt is deep enough to allow drainage so the liquid can disperse and dry out. That's the important thing.


Ammonia problems are a function of bedding volume, cleaning frequency and goat volume.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

TripleShareNubians said:


> Did you find this?


I am sorry I forgot about this.

It started with a recipe I got for cocci when we had lost 4 kids and were at the end of our rope. 
4 teaspoons ground ginger
4 teaspoons ground cloves
4 teaspoons slippery elm bark
2 teaspoons cinnamon

Add spices to 1 quart of boiling water and steep for 20 minutes and strain.
Administer 6-10 cc twice daily if infested and once a day as a preventative

For adults I would drench and for kids I would mix with a bottle.

That evolved to a paste I made for newborn kids where I ground a .2mg tablet of selenium (selenium can be overdosed so you have to be careful and know that your soil is selenium deficient) and vitaminC along with 1/8 teaspoon clove and 1/8 teaspoon cinnamon and vitamin B1 per kid. After grinding it all together I would add 1 gel cap of vitamin E per kid and small amount of water to make a paste that I would smear on the roof of the kids mouth once a day for a week. Repeat whole process at 4-5 weeks.

I am not a veterinarian nor an expert. This is just what I came upon after years of trial and error. I did not lose a single kid in the last 2 years that I used this.
If I am unclear with the instructions, please let me know and I will try to clarify.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

@Tommy Fenix


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