# To give CDT vaccine or not ?



## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

I know a lot of people and sources on the internet are saying the CD&T vaccine is pretty much nonnegotiable . 
However , has anybody not given it ?
What are the pros and cons of it ?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

There are some members here who live in the Tropics who don't give routine injections because of infections and abscesses. They'll still give nasal vaccinations if available and they'll give emergency (medicine) injections.

I don't give CDT like most people do. I give an initial shot and a booste 2 weeks later, approximately 1 month before the babies are due. So bucks and wethers never get CDTs. I'm extremely quick to reach for the Probios at the first sign of being off feed.

I give an IN Pneumonia vaccine every year without fail. To me, that one is nonnegotiable.

What are you thinking of doing? It is a good vaccine to give, and has, imo, helped far more than not.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I believe the benefits outweigh the annoyance of the abscess it may cause.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

In Maine, yes.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> There are some members here who live in the Tropics who don't give routine injections because of infections and abscesses. They'll still give nasal vaccinations if available and they'll give emergency (medicine) injections.
> 
> I don't give CDT like most people do. I give an initial shot and a booste 2 weeks later, approximately 1 month before the babies are due. So bucks and wethers never get CDTs. I'm extremely quick to reach for the Probios at the first sign of being off feed.
> 
> ...


Honestly I don't know what to do .
I did my research on the vaccine and I didn't fully understand what it was for. It said something about overeaters desease , and at the time I thought overeaters desease and bloat were the same thing ( until a member here let me know that they aren't the same ). I need to understand overeaters desease here.

I have no idea what vaccine history my adult does have, and unfortunately no way of finding out. But they seem healthy m. My 9 wk buckling is the one I was worried about and considering giving the cdt vaccine to. All he does is eat and I thought it might help , but I think I'm wrong . Also I think it's for tetanus and we have a lot of that here . Is there a reason you don't give it to your bucks and Wethers ?

It's really the only vaccine I was planning on giving. I keep putting off my tractor supply run bc every time I begin a list I get extremely overwhelmed . I want to make sure I'm only getting things they truly need or are truly likely to need . Any emergency stuff that's not as likely to arise I can always get as needed . Since I only have four goats and things expire .

Now I have to research the pneumonia vacc you mentioned .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> Any emergency stuff that's not as likely to arise I can always get as needed .


No. The EMERGENCY part of that sentence should be enough to put the I CAN ALWAYS GET AS NEEDED out of your mind. You need to have emergency supplies, because it's an emergency. Just, No.

Now, there is nothing wrong with starting your emergency supplies and adding a bit at a time, regularly. But you need to at least start. It's heartbreaking how often we read a plea for help in the middle of the night or on a holiday and we answer, Can you give___, Do you have___, He needs____,
And we hear, No, I don't have this. No I don't have that. No, No, No....
By the time the vet gets back to them, a simple thing has killed the goat.


Nikki0209 said:


> My 9 wk buckling is the one I was worried about and considering giving the cdt vaccine to.


That is a fine age to give it to him. Your adults need it too. Everyone should have 2 shots a few weeks apart, SQ, this first year and then 1 shot every year after that. 2 ml of vaccine, does not matter the size of the animal.


Nikki0209 said:


> It said something about overeaters desease


Enterotoxemia types C and D are what the C and D are. Overeater's Disease is part of that. The digestive system gets overwhelmed and knocked off its function by too much of the wrong kind of food (mostly grains, but other things too) and the digestive system shuts down completely.


Nikki0209 said:


> All he does is eat and I thought it might help , but I think I'm wrong .


LOL. That isn't what Overeater's disease is or does! Try giving him something to do. Build him a playground, give him a swinging tire to butt, take him for walks.


Nikki0209 said:


> I think it's for tetanus and we have a lot of that here .


Then you should give the vaccine, and make sure you give the booster a few weeks later. This makes it almost a no brainer. Tetanus is a terrible way to die.


Nikki0209 said:


> Now I have to research the pneumonia vacc you mentioned .


Here it is
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/once-pmh-in


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

If you have ever witnessed a gruesome death from tetanus or enterotoxemia you would absolutely vaccinate. To me if an abcess develops - it's not a life threatening issue and is just really an annoyance.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

goatblessings said:


> To me if an abcess develops - it's not a life threatening issue and is just really an annoyance.


Again, it is life threatening in the tropics. Those germs have developed teeth. And claws.

I've not told the Original Poster to not vaccinate. Just answered the question does anyone NOT do it and gave the reasonable reason why one group doesn't.

There are other groups with far worse reasons, and I'm not going giving those reasons any more internet time ever.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> I keep putting off my tractor supply run bc every time I begin a list I get extremely overwhelmed . I want to make sure I'm only getting things they truly need or are truly likely to need .


I'm happy to help with that, if you'd like.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I'm not discounting the issue with this in the tropics - please don't think I was, however the poster is from California, so just giving input on the dangers of not vaccinating.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> No. The EMERGENCY part of that sentence should be enough to put the I CAN ALWAYS GET AS NEEDED out of your mind. You need to have emergency supplies, because it's an emergency. Just, No.
> 
> Now, there is nothing wrong with starting your emergency supplies and adding a bit at a time, regularly. But you need to at least start. It's heartbreaking how often we read a plea for help in the middle of the night or on a holiday and we answer, Can you give___, Do you have___, He needs____,
> And we hear, No, I don't have this. No I don't have that. No, No, No....
> ...


I'm just going to vaccinate . It's extremely affordable and trust me I'm not the type of person who ever wants to see any animal in pain. Do you know what gauge needle I might need ? Other than that I'll pick up loose minerals , copper Bolus , benamine and I think that's it at this point .

As far as emergency supplies , what are the MAIN ones you would reccomend ?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I like 20 gauge for vaccinations, and 18 gauge also. But I tend to prefer larger gauges than other people. Many people will tell you 22 gauge for vaccinations.

Banamine you have to get from a vet, and you will probably have to develop a good relationship with a vet before he/she hands over a prescription drug.

I'd pick up a container of fortified vitamin B-Complex. Look on the label. If the thiamine level (B-1) is 100, that's the one to have on hand. Not the gel in a tube. Waste of money. 

I'd also pick up Probios or another probiotic. I prefer the gel, but others like the powder. 

Luer lock syringes, and needles. Large gauge needles, because antibiotics are thick! I prefer 16s. 

A small container of penicillin. A small container of Tylan 200. Vet wrap. Original formula Neosporin. Good for cuts, but also for the first signs of pinkeye. ONLY the original formula. A heating pad.

And of course, a thermometer! The first thing you will be asked for almost every problem is ... "Temp?" I'm shocked by how often the answer is, "I don't have a thermometer." A human thermometer will do just fine, but don't get the rapid read ones. They aren't accurate for goats.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I like 20 gauge for vaccinations, and 18 gauge also. But I tend to prefer larger gauges than other people. Many people will tell you 22 gauge for vaccinations.
> 
> Banamine you have to get from a vet, and you will probably have to develop a good relationship with a vet before he/she hands over a prescription drug.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad you mentioned thermometer ! I planned on getting one but didn't write it on my list and would have forgot . What is good for pain ? I'd like to have something on hand for any possible pain ? Also thank you for the list ! Very helpful .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I have read that for certain issues, a regular aspirin can be given for pain. Unfortunately for you, my vet sells me Banamine.... There is an online place that will sell Banamine, I've not ever used it, but others here have. I'll try to find the site and post it here in this reply... I'll edit this when I find it.
@21goaties had already made a very nice list, so it's better to just read her post.
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/website-for-getting-rx-meds.202379/#post-2193387


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

I just gave several Cdt booster shots to kids I sold several weeks ago. I thought a 20 gauge needle would be too small for cdt because it looks rather thick. But the 20 gauge worked just fine!


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

Thanks for the info ! I'll go with 20 gauge 


groovyoldlady said:


> I just gave several Cdt booster shots to kids I sold several weeks ago. I thought a 20 gauge needle would be too small for cdt because it looks rather thick. But the 20 gauge worked just fine!


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I have read that for certain issues, a regular aspirin can be given for pain. Unfortunately for you, my vet sells me Banamine.... There is an online place that will sell Banamine, I've not ever used it, but others here have. I'll try to find the site and post it here in this reply. preracehorsemeds or something... I'll edit this when I find it.


My vet is actually pretty cool. I'm fairly familiar with her. I've been taking my dogs to her for years but they also work on goats cows horses etc . So I will ask ! However online would be preferred .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

If online would be preferred, but your vet is cool with giving you a prescription, then you are in luck, because you can get it almost everywhere, Jeffers, Valley Vet, PBS... Everywhere, with a prescription.

PS, I did edit the above post with a link... in case you are still interested.
Most of us don't have a vet like yours, you lucky so-n-so!

PPS, please don't tell her about the site. We need it to not be taken away from us.

PPPleaSe.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> If online would be preferred, but your vet is cool with giving you a prescription, then you are in luck, because you can get it almost everywhere, Jeffers, Valley Vet, PBS... Everywhere, with a prescription.
> 
> PS, I did edit the above post with a link... in case you are still interested.
> Most of us don't have a vet like yours, you lucky so-n-so!
> ...


Thanks ! 
I won't mention it 
This site has helped me a lot already and I need it to stick around too .
Hopefully one day I'll be able to contribute some good information .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

LOL. I meant the racehorsemeds site, not TGS. But thanks for the compliment!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I highly recommend CD&T vaccine.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

One way to help eliminate the chance for an abscess is to make sure the skin area is clean where you are injecting and go Completely Under the skin. If you get between the skin layers, you are more apt to get an abscess.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> LOL. I meant the racehorsemeds site, not TGS. But thanks for the compliment!


LOL . I am just rereading all of this and I just realized what you meant. I was wondering why so secretive about TGS but decided not to question it . Lmao . Now I understand


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> There are some members here who live in the Tropics who don't give routine injections because of infections and abscesses. They'll still give nasal vaccinations if available and they'll give emergency (medicine) injections.
> 
> I don't give CDT like most people do. I give an initial shot and a booste 2 weeks later, approximately 1 month before the babies are due. So bucks and wethers never get CDTs. I'm extremely quick to reach for the Probios at the first sign of being off feed.
> 
> ...


I'm just rereading this and I'm wondering , are bucks are wethers less likely to need the vaccine ?

Also , as far as my does go I have no idea if they've gotten the vaccine in the passed .....is it still safe for me to give it to them even tho they may have got it before ? Even as recently as a month or so ago ?

ALSO, if I only vaccinate some of my goats and not the others , will the ones I vaccinated still be protected or do they all need to be vaccinated for it to work ?

Bc my does are wild and I may need to wait a bit before I'm able to vaccine them , where as my buckling will let me easily do it ( I think ) .


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> I was wondering why so secretive about TGS but decided not to question it .


Do not question the Caprine Cabal...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nikki0209 said:


> are bucks are wethers less likely to need the vaccine ?


The way I do things with my herd, yes. By the time the initial protection from mom's antibodies are worn off, the bucks have usually gone to market. When they are banded (if they are banded) they get a tetanus antitoxin shot. And I shove probiotics in them at the drop of a hat. But my farm is not your farm and my practices are not your practices.


Nikki0209 said:


> is it still safe for me to give it to them even tho they may have got it before ? Even as recently as a month or so ago ?


A month ago may be too soon, I don't know the answer to that. But yes, in general, you can give a vaccination they've already gotten.


Nikki0209 said:


> Bc my does are wild and I may need to wait a bit before I'm able to vaccine them , where as my buckling will let me easily do it ( I think ) .


The more of your herd are protected, the better the protection. But waiting a while shouldn't cause problems. Better to inject him than to wait and have him completely unprotected.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> The way I do things with my herd, yes. By the time the initial protection from mom's antibodies are worn off, the bucks have usually gone to market. When they are banded (if they are banded) they get a tetanus antitoxin shot. And I shove probiotics in them at the drop of a hat. But my farm is not your farm and my practices are not your practices.
> 
> A month ago may be too soon, I don't know the answer to that. But yes, in general, you can give a vaccination they've already gotten.
> 
> The more of your herd are protected, the better the protection. But waiting a while shouldn't cause problems. Better to inject him than to wait and have him completely unprotected.


Thankyou !


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

So I got the CDT vaccine and needles , some goat electrolytes , and some minerals . Unfortunately all they had was manna pro goat balancer , could not find PURINA wind and rain but I want to get the next time . I didn’t know what to look for in a salt lick and there were tons of them so I’ll have to figure that out next time . 

Got copper Bolus the pill feeder thing lol. 

Forgot so much stuff ‍♀


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The Balancer, unfortunately, is a waste of money. As soon as you can get something else, you should. The Balancer isn't even meant to be a mineral mix, just something for people to be talked into getting. If you haven't opened it yet, they should take it back.

Purina All Purpose Cattle minerals, in a green bag, will do well if they don't carry the W&R,S


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

mariarose said:


> The Balancer, unfortunately, is a waste of money. As soon as you can get something else, you should. The Balancer isn't even meant to be a mineral mix, just something for people to be talked into getting. If you haven't opened it yet, they should take it back.
> 
> Purina All Purpose Cattle minerals, in a green bag, will do well if they don't carry the W&R,S


I opened it unfortunately .
I'll order the purina


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Nikki0209 said:


> My vet is actually pretty cool. I'm fairly familiar with her. I've been taking my dogs to her for years but they also work on goats cows horses etc . So I will ask ! However online would be preferred .


Hi Nikki...
You are very fortunate to have a vet that takes care of goats...I can't say that enough. When we got our goats, I had "assumed" that our regular vet that we take our dogs to would also take care of our goats but...they do not do goats. Fortunately, I was able to find a vet that is about 20 miles away that cares for goats. I have heard of people that do not have a 'goat-vet' near them and they have to rely on their own knowledge or know someone that is knowledgeable about goat care to take care of any health issues.

I wish you the best of luck with your goat adventure!  You have already found a great resource with The Goat Spot and I think you will find all of the advice and support you need here to make the experience an enjoyable one for you and your goats.


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## sunnystatekidz (Jul 20, 2019)

HMNS said:


> Hi Nikki...
> You are very fortunate to have a vet that takes care of goats...I can't say that enough. When we got our goats, I had "assumed" that our regular vet that we take our dogs to would also take care of our goats but...they do not do goats. Fortunately, I was able to find a vet that is about 20 miles away that cares for goats. I have heard of people that do not have a 'goat-vet' near them and they have to rely on their own knowledge or know someone that is knowledgeable about goat care to take care of any health issues.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck with your goat adventure!  You have already found a great resource with The Goat Spot and I think you will find all of the advice and support you need here to make the experience an enjoyable one for you and your goats.


Thankyou !! )


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