# Difficult goat birth - kid came out backwards and had to be pulled.



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have two goats that gave birth and one that is about to pop. Two of these are pygmies and one is a small Lamancha dairy mix that I bred to the pygmy buck as it is her first time. The first pygmy went off with out a hitch. I have these three separated but together from the rest. I went out to check on them and there was no kid. I came back a short while later and there was stuff hanging out of the doe so I went looking and found a perfectly healthy kid and afterbirth. The kid was sucking a few minutes later and had obviously just been born.

The second one to kid was the small Lamancha and other dairy mix doe. She kidded the next day and I could tell something wasn't right. I could see two feet sticking out but nothing seemed to progress for several hours. There was no head so I didn't know what was up. Basically I called someone and they said I needed to get the kid out, otherwise they would both die. I ended up pulling the kid myself and was most concerned that I was pulling too hard and would end up killing the kid getting it out. I thought the feet were the front feet but it became obvious I had back legs once it got a little farther.

I had to pull with a pretty good amount of force. The mother was upset and I was worried I was going to pull the kid apart. Luckily I got the kid out alive and it is a beautiful buckling with interesting colors and lamancha ears. It is basically a mini-mancha. The mother dropped the afterbirth several hours later and all seems well a few days after kidding. The kid is running around like nothing happened. Obviously you can pull them out pretty hard without hurting them.

My question is why this kid came out backwards? All my others have come out headfirst without this issue. Is this something I will have to watch for more so on this doe than the others during future births?

Also, how much of a risk does pulling one in this condition pose to the kid and the mother? I had to use considerable force to pull it out.

COnor


----------



## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

Some kids just point the wrong way, it seems. I was a breech birth myself, but couldn't tell you why! I gave one of my does a boost when her pushing didn't seem effective, and I know what you mean by using a fair amount of force. I believe that if you have both feet and the nose sticking out, if it's the nose end of the kid, it's okay to pull as hard as necessary, so long as you are pulling in time with the doe pushing. I would weigh the risk of pulling against the risk of not pulling--losing them both. I'm sorry, but I've no idea whether breech births will be more likely with this doe or not. I'm fairly new to this, so hope that someone more experienced will pipe up and correct my impressions, or confirm them.


----------



## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

If people are any indicator, some babies just get orientated the wrong way. My two oldest kids were positioned right weeks before birth, whereas my youngest waited until the last minute to turn. They were talking C-Section, which to me wasn't a great thrill since I had had two LARGE human babies before just fine.


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I see. I am glad this one worked out ok but was resigned to losing the baby to save the mother if that is how it had to be.

Conor


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I think about everyone will have a breach birth with their herd at sometime in their life. I know someone will say they have never had a breach birth, that is wonderful but it will happen. 
It sure can be scary when it happens for the first time but you did great. Not saying you didn't just remember to pull WITH the contractions. That to me can be the hardest part. I want to pull that baby and help mom and it seems like forever until the next contraction. 

Again Great job :hi5::hi5:


----------



## Woody_Glen_Farm (Feb 23, 2014)

Generally speaking a back feetfirst birth is not difficult for a doe and it's almost as easy as front feetfirst unless the kid is large and it's a first timer. This is considered a normal position. And also it will not affect future births. Glad you were able to help her.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## chuckles (Aug 7, 2014)

cwatkin said:


> My question is why this kid came out backwards? All my others have come out headfirst without this issue. Is this something I will have to watch for more so on this doe than the others during future births?
> 
> Also, how much of a risk does pulling one in this condition pose to the kid and the mother? I had to use considerable force to pull it out.
> 
> COnor


According to what I've read, the presentation is influenced by the kids rate of growth in the last part of pregnancy and the number of fetuses. Some kids develop a little slower and are able to move into the 'normal' presentation of front feet/head. Other kids develop faster and get caught in a backwards or breech position.

Any kid can present backwards, it has very little to do with Mom. I've had singles and twins both present backwards and I've had twins and triplets where one was front feet/head, and another was backwards. The fact that this kid was backwards does not mean that she will always deliver backwards kids, either. The easiest way to tell if the birth is a 'normal' presentation or backwards is to check the soles of the hooves. In a front legs/head presentation the soles of the feet will be facing the ground, whereas in a backwards presentation the soles of the feet will be facing upwards. The thing you really need to be aware of is that when the hips clear the birth canal the umbilical cord breaks, and the kid WILL take his first breath regardless of whether he is out or not. I ALWAYS assist in backwards kiddings, always! I pull the kid and always continue on up so he is hanging and any fluid he may have aspirated can drain. When I lay him down, I usually tickle the inside of his nose with a piece of straw to hedge my bet. Aspirated fluid can cause pneumonia. I hope this helps!


----------



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks. I guess most of the difficulty was related to it being her first time. She is a smaller goat so I bred her with a pygmy buck. Her baby was smaller but not that much smaller. Mom and baby are happy and healthy now so this had no impact on either of them long term.

Conor


----------



## brannanemily (Jun 20, 2021)

cwatkin said:


> I have two goats that gave birth and one that is about to pop. Two of these are pygmies and one is a small Lamancha dairy mix that I bred to the pygmy buck as it is her first time. The first pygmy went off with out a hitch. I have these three separated but together from the rest. I went out to check on them and there was no kid. I came back a short while later and there was stuff hanging out of the doe so I went looking and found a perfectly healthy kid and afterbirth. The kid was sucking a few minutes later and had obviously just been born.
> 
> The second one to kid was the small Lamancha and other dairy mix doe. She kidded the next day and I could tell something wasn't right. I could see two feet sticking out but nothing seemed to progress for several hours. There was no head so I didn't know what was up. Basically I called someone and they said I needed to get the kid out, otherwise they would both die. I ended up pulling the kid myself and was most concerned that I was pulling too hard and would end up killing the kid getting it out. I thought the feet were the front feet but it became obvious I had back legs once it got a little farther.
> 
> ...


How did you pull the goat? where did you place your hands so it was more comfortable for the kid and you had a less chance of pulling the kid apart? how long did it take?


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

That is a really old post. If you have a kid that is coming out backwards, pull the feet until you get to the hocks, then grab firmly and with the does contractions,
pull slightly downward. You have to get that kid out, they only have a* few minutes *as the cord is getting crushed and separated from the kid as it comes out. Don't yank,
but steady pressure as she pushes. She may yell, don't let that bother you. You may have to rotate the kids body a bit to get it thru the hip opening. 

When it is born, gently hold upside down and get the mouth and nose cleared, quickly. Get all that goo off. If you have a "snot sucker", a nasal aspirator, use that to
get the mucus and goo out of the kids nose and mouth/throat.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope things are ok?


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

This is an old thread from 2014.


----------

