# emergency! please help!



## house (Dec 9, 2013)

My goat had twins this morning. #1 was nursing fine. #2 I didn't see nurse. So I got #2 to take a bottle at 6 pm. It is now 10pm and I went to check them and #1 was laying in the cold... about to give up. I brought #1 inside with me to warm baby up and now its not taking a bottle! What do I do??


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

It won't drink until it's body temperature us up to about 100 I think. Warm baby up quickly. You can put all of the body except the head in a trash bag and then lay in warm water so it gets warm but not wet. Or a hair dryer, towels warmers. Your body temp is not warm enough so cuddling with blankets is not enough. Once it is warm enough try feeding it again. They can be tough little buggers so don't give up! Sending prayers for you....


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Hoping someone else will jump in....

You need to warm him up STAT. do not feed until the babies temp is at 100F. Have you got thermometer to take it's temp with? Warming it up is the most important thing right now.

Feel it's tummy, if you can't feel anything he probably hasn't nursed... if it feels fuller that is good. stick your finger in it's mouth, is it cold?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes mouth is cold. I was cuddling with it. But now I have a heater blowing right on us. I can take temp. In butt? What should it be? :'(


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes, in the anus. Just keep checking till it gets to 100F and then feed an ounce or two. Is he/she responsive at all or just totally floppy?


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Also, if you have a heating pad, hot pack, hot water bottle, warm it up and put in under the baby.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Its trying to sleep. Should I keep it awake? Temp is 93.6!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Lifting head. Was Trying to get up. Now laying down. But lifting its head. What about the other baby. Its out with mom. Mom is snuggled up with it. There is a chicken light out there. How frequently should I check on them?


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Are you sure it's trying to sleep or it just can't keep it head up? I would take it out of blankets and see if it can stand on its own or if it falls. Are his eyes open? Focusing? Do you have milk or milk replacer on hand for when it's temp is up?


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

OK, just saw your next post. Good that it is trying to get up. Keep him snuggled up until his temp is up more. If the other baby has nursed, and is doing fine I would check on them every four or five hours. How cold is it where you are?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Tummy is full. I saw it nursing several times this evening... that's why I dont understand what happened!


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

I wish someone more experienced was here! Take his temperature again, hopefully it will be warmer *fingers crossed*


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Had twin girls do this to me one time. First thing first get him warm. Hairdryer, heat pad, heat lamp. Also drench him with warm milk mixed with nutri drench or if you don't have that about 1 tsp molasses. That will help give him energy. Biggest thing is just get him warm quickly.


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Also stimulate. Rub his legs, back and belly vigorously with a towel.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Eyes are open. Yes it can stand. 96.1 now. Looking better already
I have collosterum replacement or whatever its called. 
34 deg out now. 11:45 pm
Mouth and hooves are still cold


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank goodness it's not FREEZING cold out by you like it is by me. Rubbing him like Honeysuckle said is good to do. Get his blood flowing, that should warm him up even more.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

OK stimulating is helping too


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

That's such great news  Hopefully the worst is past. Temp should get to 100F soon.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Its a boy! Honeysuckle, did your twins live?
I have a warm water bottle on my lap under his belly. I think that's helping too.


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Sounds like your doing right don't freak out if his temp doesn't come up real fast and keep a super close eye on his temp for a while because they tend to have trouble holding their body temps after going way down like that. Mine didn't get to go back outside for 2 months afterword because she was having such a hard time hold her temp.


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Yep. Survived and grew to be big healthy goats.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

How is the little guy doing?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Don't give ANY milk until the temp is up - with the rumen not functioning it will upset their gut.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

OK. No food gotcha. He's hanging in there. 97.9 Wow 2 months!!! So he's gonna be a bottle baby then? How did you monitor that? Take their temp every day?
I don't know what I would have done without y'all!! Thank you all so much!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

So its 12:30am here.. what do I do about sleeping? Get his temp up and feed a few ounces, then how frequently? And what temp for I keep the bathroom its 83 how with the heater blasting. Should I sleep in here with him? What would you do?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I would stay with him until his temp is up, then you can leave him while you sleep. Someone else can chime in on feedings amounts since I don't do bottle babies.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Since you saw him nursing on mom, you could bring her up to the house and try to let him nurse. If you do that, he'll drink as much as he needs and it won't be a struggle with a bottle or tubing him. That's what I would do about feeding him right now... newborns need like four ounces every two hours... I think. I haven't bottle fed for sometime.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

got this from Goat Link

Day one- 2-4oz. [1-3] (per feeding) colostrum, every 2-3 hours.
* Day two- 3 oz. [2-3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8-10 times a day
* Day three- 4 oz.[3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8 times a day
* Day four- 6oz. [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
* Week One - 6-8oz [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
* For the next 2 weeks-6-8oz.[4-6] (per feeding) whole milk, 6 times a day.
* For the next 2 months-10-12 oz.[6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 4-5 times a day.
* For the next 1 month or 6 weeks-10-12 oz. [6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 3 times a day.
* 10-12 oz. [8-10] (per feeding) once a day for the next 2 months.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

And here's the link to the article about bottle feeding if that's what you decide to do. http://goat-link.com/content/view/94/


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Wow. Thank you. 100.1!!!


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Awesome!:stars:


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Tried to give bottle. He's not sucking. I'm rubbing roof of his mouth with my finger. Pulling nipple in and out. Possibly he's too tired? Should I try every 15 min or so?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Put some honey on the tip of your finger and try to get his sucking reflexes going with that. After he starts sucking on your finger, put some honey on the nipple and he *should* nurse fine.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

How is he?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Temp 101. His head is floppy and doesn't want to stand. Not sucking yet


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Omg he drank some!!!!


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

You tried the honey?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Honey on finger worked! I also stroked his hind legs in up motion. A friend with an ill calf one time said to do that to get them to suck. That worked! Tell your friends!


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY XD XD that's so great


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Tayet you saved this baby! His head is still floppy which is strange. But he's sucking. I'm feeding a little waiting a few min and feeding little more. Going with y gut on this


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Do you have injectable B complex? If so, give him 1/2cc. orally. It will help stabilize his temperature and wake him up. The hypothermia causes brain/nerve damage that the B complex will help stop.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

He's standing and holding his head up now. And I just got peed on. Never thought I'd be happy to have a goat pee on me!


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

YEAH! Peeing on you means they are doing well  I'm so happy I could help this little guy.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Goathiker. No I don't even know what that is. If I get it in about 8 hours, will it be too late to give it? These are our first babies that our momma had since we bought her. 
He sounds congested. He's trying to blow his nose too.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

If you have one of those squeejy things that parents use for human babies that could help clear some snot or mucus.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Sooo, because we skipped all pleasantries... Hi! I'm Tayet and I'm 15 and I live in Wisconsin. I have 7 goats and I'm in 4-H. What kind of goats do you have?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

house said:


> Goathiker. No I don't even know what that is. If I get it in about 8 hours, will it be too late to give it? These are our first babies that our momma had since we bought her.
> He sounds congested. He's trying to blow his nose too.


Support his chest with your hand and tip him upside down at a little more than a 45 degree angle to the ground. Gravity should take over and drain the fluid from his chest if there is any. B complex vitamins are sold under the name of fortified B vitamins or B vitamin complex. You should be able to find them at any feed or farm supply store. If possible, go with the fortified B vitamins. I would also suggest getting some 50% Dextrose if possible. It is cheap and it is a literal life saver for cold kids. Mix 30 cc's of the 50% Dextrose with 30 cc's of very warm water and tube the kid. It is a simple sugar that is easily absorbed and it will provide fast energy that will get the kid going and restore his/her suck instinct. You can get kid feeding syringes at Jeffers, Valley Vet, PBS Animal Health, Caprine Supply, or Hoeggers for very little money. Make sure you always have several of them on hand.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

PS Good job, Tayet!


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## sassy (Nov 29, 2013)

How's the baby today???


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

That's great to hear! I'm not saying it will be 2 months, but it will be a little while. Take his temp 2-3 times a day. Also if you want him to go back to momma sooner or later take him down to her 1-2 times a day and let him nurse. Then if his temp stabilizes pretty quick then you can put him back with mama. If he start getting cold AT ALLL while with momma immeasurably bring him back in. Good luck and keep us updated! Also pictures, duh! Lol.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Yes, how is the baby? I hope he's doing well. Thank you Goatcrazy! I was scared I wouldn't be able to help enough, but I'm so glad I was


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## hippygoatherder (Nov 26, 2013)

Way to go Tayet and newborn goat!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

He's doing fantastic! Had a little trouble taking a bottle this am. But using the honey and rubbing actions he drank an ounce or two. I bought b complex and gave him 1/2cc how frequently should I do that? 
Also, snot like stuff drained from his mouth last night after his temp came up to 100. 
I'm new to goats and the forum thing! But y'all saved this goat! Attaching a pic of Tuff. The one of him in the hay was taken yesterday before he got sick. The one standing was taken just a few hours ago.
Thank you all!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow...great news and lots of great help!!...Do b complex once daily, injected sub Q (under the skin)...: ) Hes a doll!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If he is going to be a bottle baby...here is a formula on how much to feed...if goats milk is not avaible,,,use Whole Cows milk..not replacer : ) 

Weigh him and multiply that by 16 to get his weight in oz....
Multiply his weight in oz by 10% to see how much per day he needs
Divide into 4 feedings...

Dont let him gulit you into feeding more lol..they will eat them selves sick if we let them...

best wishes


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

He is so cute! I'm glad he's doing well  Your son (?) is cute, too.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Tayet..you did great!!! Never doubt yourself...you knew what to do!!!


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Too cute! Love his ears!


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## 7blessings (Jun 30, 2013)

Tayet, I am so impressed by your maturity, knowledge, compassion and dedication at helping "House" save her little newborn kid. I had no idea you were only 15 until you shared that information. Here I thought with all your wisdom and quick thinking, you were much older! Excellent job! And congratulations to "house", Tuff is such a cutie pie!!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Tayet, yep I have to totally agree with 7blessings. GREAT JOB. :hi5:

So glad House your little one is doing better. Also, try like tickling the top of his tail (where it attaches to his butt), if you do that, it also stimulates the babies sucking reflex. If you notice that is where mom's lick them while they are nursing.

How is the other baby doing?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Took him out to nurse, wouldn't on his own. Sucked little off mom with our help. Just now gave him 1/2 cc b complex again. He had a gooey bowel movement too!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Happybleats, I sure hope I dont have to bottle feed him. I will take him out to momma a few times tomorrow but he didn't nurse much off her tonight so I'll give him more bottles tonight.
Tuff is in the bathroom now with warm water bottles because he was outside with mom. But his temp is 101. Really whole pasteurized cows milk? Not replacer? I bought a small package of replacer with electrolytes because the feed store didn't have that lactate ringers. 
Tayet, I really thank you for the quick response last night. You have natural talent and great instincts. I hope you use them to do many more great things. There is no way I would have warmed him as quickly as you told me to on my own. We are very thankful!
Yes, the boy is my 4yr old and I have a 2 yr old too. They were very happy to see both baby goats this morning. And they were super excited to find Tuff in their bathroom.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Tail tickling.. good idea, sweetgoats. Other baby is great. Nursing and snuggling with momma (Molly) under the heat lamp. I have a baby video monitor set up out there and check on them frequently. I can also see when that one ( no name yet) is nursing. 
My husband thinks Tuff needs to be outside. I think its too soon. Maybe take him out for 20 min at a time?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Please don't use the replacer. Just whole cow's milk.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

I have half and half I'll get some whole milk in the morning.


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Please please don't use milk replacer! I've lost babies to it. It's bad bad. And definetely too soon to put him back out unless your barn is 65-70 degrees! Even then id keep a coat on him. He will not be able to hold his temperature well for a while. I would do as you said 20 minutes at a time and at the end if the 20 minutes before you take him in check his temp if it's gone done don't let him be out as long but if it's steady slowly increase the amount of time you let him out he may not have nursed because his temp was dropping.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Awwwww, what a little darling!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Half and half is much too rich. Since mom is only nursing one can you milk her out and use that? Might make it easier to transition him back on her too.


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## sassy (Nov 29, 2013)

Yes!!! He doing better glad to here. This forum is so nice to be on. I wish I new it was around last month when I had to put down my beautiful 8 year old goat snowby. He got pneumonia and I couldn't save him. ;(


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

He wouldnt eat...checked temp...Well his temp went down 2 deg. At 99.9 not feeding him now. Laid him on blanket on a heating pad. So now back to heating, checking temp and trying to get him to suck...  he was doing well then my hubby wanted to take him outside to momma.


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## Laney3535 (Jun 25, 2012)

Men


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

He will need to stay in the house until he can regulate his temp. You may have a bottle baby. Sometimes that is just the way it goes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree....too cold out for him right now...Did he get any colostrum from mom? If not, its going to be a rocky ride..but doable....but he will need extra care until he is strong. If you can, Milk mom and feed him her milk..at least until you can grab some whole cows milk...when heating, always do a hot bath , never microwave..always test it like you would a baby..Most likely he will be a bottle baby..the longer he is away from mom the less likely she will take him back...


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Laney... ha! I know. He said.. you're making a big deal about this. Mom will take care of him... I said... she left him in the cold rain... he was almost dead when I found him.. this IS a big deal! But he's folding laundry now so I guess he's out if the dog house. 
Here's another question... temp up to 101 now. since I'm going to use half and half now, do I need to add karo syrup? Since I font have molasses? Right now, I'm going to try Judy half and half. Should I also give another dose of b complex? I gave him 1/2 cc about 4 hrs ago before his temp dropped again.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

OK yes I nursed and bottle fed my human kids  using water bath for the milk. He did get colostrum. He nursed well yesterday afternoon before I found him in the rain that evening. 
What about a humidifier in the bathroom? I have dry heat right now. I'm wondering if the warm mist humidifier would be better and not contribute to more dehydration.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

( yes, my hubby has his own way of thinking when it come to goats,,, but My word is final in the goat department lol) 
if you have any milk at all..I would mix it with the half and half...since half half is too rich for him...No need to mix any kayo syrup in it...You can give another B complex injection if he seems to need it...I usually go once or twice a day..he wil pee out what he dont need...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

No need for humidfier...:-D


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

B complex can't hurt him. DON'T give him half and half, it is too rich and will make him sick. Try to get a cupful from mom instead.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh good about the colostrum!! That will make his fight so much easier on both of you : )


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Omg... don't give him supplement.. don't give him half n hslf... I can't milk mom. Shes sleeping with the other twin and its 9 pm 35 and raining. I just have 2% what the Frick and I supposed to give him? Now he's limp and weak again and won't suck...he hasn't eaten well since this morning. I'm going on 4 hrs sleep and my toddlers just now went to sleep... I'm breaking down"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry....He needs nurishment...I would give him the 2% with a tad bit of Half half for fat...if he is drinking 1-2 oz...put about 1 teaspoon Half half...
Use the honey finger to get him sucking...make sure his temp is high enough...rub him to stimulate him, even make him mad...deep breath..you are doing all you can...HUGS


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## sassy (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm not much help. So I'lll just keep praying for the little guy. Prayers work


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Mix the replacement and feed it to him. If you have some whiskey put a couple drops of that in it too...fast energy that stimulates. You're going to hear all kinds if advice on here....do what you can with what you have.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

I know how hard it can be, getting frustrated with weak babies and wishing they would get better. But you are doing the best you can do  Tuff will be fine with the 2% and a little half and half for tonight and you can get the whole milk and/or milk Molly tomorrow morning. You did GREAT last night, and tonight will get better :hug:


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Sending prayers for you and the cute little guy. You're doing a fabulous job. All you can do is your best, the rest is out of your hands.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm going with the 2% mixed with a bit of half and half. Since he's not sucking, I tilted his head up and squirt some milk in and he's swallowed it. Not sure how much.. but very little. Going to try that every hour... maybe this way he can get some energy up to suck again.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

You're doing great. Just keep trying...


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

How's his temp?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

102.7 I turned town the heating pad to the lowest setting. He's laying on a thick blanket between him and the pad. What range should I stick to? Closer to 100? He's still week and rubbing on him to stimulate only seems to make him more sleepy.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Keep him between 101.5 & 103 if you can. Were you able to get the vitamin b12? Does his belly feel full? Has he pooped?


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

So sorry your having such a hard time. Be very careful about switching him back and forth, it could cause him to get floppy kid syndrome. But for tonight feed him whatever you have been feeding him. I understand how your feeling right now. Been there many times. ((Hugs)) and prayers sent your way.


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## Laney3535 (Jun 25, 2012)

Yep keep up good work! Take what advice feels right and use it . Don't second guess yourself, u are a momma use u momma spidey sence. U are doing what u can with what u have. Your only true mistake would be to not try !


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

temp looks good! Youre doing fine...hes had a hard start..makes it hard to get up and going strong and staying there...you can only do what you can...
BCG asked a good question..Has he pooped, what does his tummy feel like..? if its bulgy and he has not pooped he may need an enemia...

heres how to do on if need be...

in about 1 cup of warm water, add a tablespoon of cooking oil..draw some up in a syringe, no needle...insert just the tip and push plunger slowly...might have to do this a few time to get enough to cause pressure for him to poop...massage his tummy well....give time for him to poop before adding more enemia...stir between using it..since the oil seperates...this can take 30-40 minutes for him to poop..patients is needed...once he is pooping well...the remaing oil in his intestines should keep things moving...


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

If he's still lethargic black coffee can help give them a kickstart. I haven't personally used it so maybe someone else can chime in on how much? I'm guessing just an ounce or two, same temperature as the milk.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

I have to go to bed, but I hope he does OK tonight. Good luck!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

3 hrs later...2am he's doing a little better. Standing, tail wagging a little and walking just a bit. I gave 1cc more b complex. He still isn't sucking tho. I dropped some milk down his throat and he's swallowing it. I'll sleep a few more hrs then really try harder to get him to suck. And might try some coffee for both of us then too. These last two feedings I've just really been worried about him getting something in his belly. He pooped about 14 hrs ago. First time. It was black and gooey. He peed again just now. Going for more sleep myself. He's staying warm. Temp is 102. Heating pad is keeping him steadily warm.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Sounds like you are doing ok. How is he this morning? And how are you? These situations can suck you down fast.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Black poop is the first poop ...it should turn yellow in color now..you wont see berries for a week or so, keep watch for more poop, if he hasnt pooped for 14 hours..he may need that enima, not pooping can cause its own issues, including refusing to eat ...You've done a remarkable job with him...Hopefully you both got some much needed sleep..

Hugs!!


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

Sounds like your doing great. Sometimes it takes a while before they take the bottle steadily. You are doing an amazing job.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

Hope things are better this morning and the little guy is pooping and eating. And hope you got some needed rest!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hows things going?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Got some rest. Both kids are with momma. Tuff gas perked up quite a bit and nursed off momma with our help. Temps are steady and good. They are staying warm. Going now to take momma oatmeal and babies a bottle... I havent seen them eat for quite a few hours. If they are hungry, I'll give them bottles. Baby Boy #1 weighs 4 lb 4.5 oz and tuff is 4lb 7.5 oz 
More later.. going to check temps


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Glad they are doing well


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Sounds wonderful! You done good!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

AWESOME JOB!!! and great news!!! You did it!!! :wahoo: Keep up the good work!!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Great to hear, just make sure mom will accept him. :lol:


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Temps good staying between 100.5 and just over 102. I am worried about momma. I think she thinks she can't care for both. I was told alfalfa hay will help her production. She has milk but is not bulging. She's a pygmy so she's small.. and milk squirts when i'm trying to get the babies to latch on to her. 
We put them in the pin and she hasn't nursed boy #1 since and he wouldn't take the bottle. Because Tuff's temp was just under 100 and he's sounding congested, I brought both inside. I'll look back at the replies, someone talked about holding him upside down? I'm worried about pneumonia. If he's still congested tomorrow, I have a vet that can listen to his lungs. 
Oh and Tuff was hungry and drank a real good amount out of a bottle of carnation EVAPORATED milk!!! Some of our issues may have been that he didn't like the taste of what I've been trying to give him. 
B complex seems to be helping too. 
Both are pooping yellow. No problems in the excrement department, I've been cleaning it up all morning!


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Just keep working with them. Hold mom so he can nurse and she will hopefully get use to it.

What I do is offer as much Molasses water as mom wants. The more she drinks the more milk she will produce. So if she likes something else to drink off it. I use a Horse electrolyte that is apple flavor and my goats love it so they drink it like crazy.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Non dairy breeds may not have a huge bulging udder like milk goats. As long as there's something coming out I wouldn't be concerned.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you! Happybleats and kccjer! I'll keep posting, its good for record keeping and monitoring their progress.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Sweetgoat. Do I put that in her main water bucket? And is it the molasses that I get at the grocery store? Or is it special for cattle? She didn't eat any of the oatmeal. She's eating hay tho and drinking water. Will the horse electrolyte give her energy but has nothing to do with the milk production? (Sorry about auto correct... I'm using my phone)


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes, you can just add it to her regular water. Anything that gets her to drink more will help with milk production. They sure are cute!!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I've had the best luck helping the babies to nurse their own mother in these situations. Hold her/ tie her if you have to. It's really no more work than the bottle and better milk for the babies. It will get easier. There may come a time where they aren't hungry because they just ate while you weren't looking. Not saying that's the case here, but you should be aware it can and does happen. Sometimes a doe will decide to raise one or two and reject one. I've found that even though the mother didn't bond to one, the siblings always bond to each other and that makes it tough for the mother to try and exclude one for long. Some does are more stubborn than others though.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Plan is to take him to her as frequently as I can but it takes two of us to get the babies on her so I'm supplementing also with a bottle for tuff now because I'm sure he needs all he can get right now.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Always offer both water and electrolytes so she can choose..: ) a bit of alfalfa or alfalfa pellets help with milk...also loose minerals...selenium vit E gel...: ) so her mineral needs are taken care of...

heres a good electrolyte recipe...( did I already give you this lo)l..oh well here it is again just n case lol

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses or what you have or honey
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


Mix well and drench or let them drink it


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Awesome! I have all of that! I just now took Tuff out to nurse, pinned momma by myself and held her still so both could nurse. They sucked one almost dry but a little milk still squirt from the other. They were both satisfied and me, overjoyed!


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## mason (Dec 10, 2013)

How are the kids doing


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Mason they are both nursing but she's not letting the one I found nurse on its own, I have to pin her. But I did successfully one time! Will continue to but hopefully we are in the clear now.


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

house said:


> Awesome! I have all of that! I just now took Tuff out to nurse, pinned momma by myself and held her still so both could nurse. They sucked one almost dry but a little milk still squirt from the other. They were both satisfied and me, overjoyed!


That's so great!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

house said:


> Mason they are both nursing but she's not letting the one I found nurse on its own, I have to pin her. But I did successfully one time! Will continue to but hopefully we are in the clear now.


Like I said. It gets easier.


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## Honeysuckle (Apr 11, 2013)

That's great!!! So happy you were able to save him! And they are both absolutely adorable.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yep hopefully, soon you wont have to hold her at all...: ) great Job!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Here's a new concern. They were both out with momma.. Tuff only for a few hours tonight.. both warm and snuggled together under the heat lamp. 38 F outside. I went to check on them and they both sounded like they were snotty with congestion. So I'm worried about pneumonia. I bring them both inside they are in here 10 min 70 deg F and they both sound clear now. Any ideas? Is this a concern? Should I have vet listen to make sure its not pneumonia... in both kids? I read something about using a heat lamp, they are warm but the air they breathe is still cold. Any ideas?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

drench... I'm I'm not familiar with this term


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## Tayet (Feb 9, 2012)

Drenching is when you give them medicine orally... through the mouth, like.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

could be just the cold air...you could set up a heat lamp..high enough where mom cant touch it...but some moms hog it up...Usually I would say they will be fine..mom will keep them warm, but with this little guy having such a hard start..I wouldnt want to chance it just yet..I would keep him in the house until he is completly out of the woods...take both babies temps to be sure its not elevated..just to be sure...the change from cold barn to warm house and back out can set things in motion as well...for now B complex daily and keep a very close eye...and watch the temps...


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Tayet, I just went back and read your reply where you introduced yourself! With everything going on, I missed it. 
I live in Texas. I have 2 toddler boys. We are new to having goats. I grew up in the city. My husband bought Molly our momma with nursing twins and apparently she was pregnant too. They are Pygmy. So now our count is 2 sets of twins and Molly make 5.
An update, Tuff was doing well today and I got him to nurse off momma. But brought him inside shortly after dark because of the congestion.. now he's not eating again. He wouldn't suck off momma and not drinking a bottle. His temp is good tho. 101.3 ... not sure if they usually run a temp with pneumonia or not but I'll take him to the vet first thing tomorrow.
I'm also not even sure I should try feeding him if there is a chance he has pneumonia. I tried electrolytes drink I made but he hates the taste.. should I squirt some in his mouth like I'm doing with the b complex? I point his mouth and nose straight up in the air open his mouth and squirt it in.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Happybleats, I left the other baby back out there with momma. He didn't still sound congested after being inside an hour or so. And he's nursing real well and she's letting him get all he wants. I'll keep my eyes on him tho! Tuff is still inside. You're right. He's not quite strong enough yet. And momma seems to be ignoring him and not letting him nurse unless i'm out there.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

how long has it been since he ate? how does his tummy feel? firm, sunken or poochy? has he pooped in the last 4 hours? peeing? 101.3 is a bit low...101.5 is the low end of normal...could be from just coming in...I live in Texas as well.and temps have dropped a bunch since the sun went down..
B complex works better injected...if you just cant bring yourself to do the shot (i totally understand) then double his oral dose...
Pneumonia usually but not always presents fever...silent pneumonia can have a low temp then spike...I would retake his temp every 30-40 minutes to keep close watch on it...What antibiotics do you have on hand? just on case ( sorry, this will need to be injected)


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

how long has it been since he ate? how does his tummy feel? firm, sunken or poochy? has he pooped in the last 4 hours? peeing? 101.3 is a bit low...101.5 is the low end of normal...could be from just coming in...I live in Texas as well.and temps have dropped a bunch since the sun went down..
B complex works better injected...if you just cant bring yourself to do the shot (i totally understand) then double his oral dose...
Pneumonia usually but not always presents fever...silent pneumonia can have a low temp then spike...I would retake his temp every 30-40 minutes to keep close watch on it...What antibiotics do you have on hand? just on case ( sorry, this will need to be injected)


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

house said:


> Awesome! I have all of that! I just now took Tuff out to nurse, pinned momma by myself and held her still so both could nurse. They sucked one almost dry but a little milk still squirt from the other. They were both satisfied and me, overjoyed!


This post was the last time he ate. It was from momma. 4 or 5 hrs. He was out there with her for an hour or so but from what I could tell she wasn't letting him nurse. When I got him and brought him back inside, his tummy was sunk in. I mixed the electrolyte and have now "dredged" 20 ml =4 teaspoons now his tummy more plump. But I still wouldn't call it firm. Im afraid to squirt too much in his mouth. The other baby's isn't firm either. Full but squishy as well. 
Poop.. he just had a bit if runny yellow poo. He's coughing now too. I'm afraid its pneumonia  I don't have antibiotics. Vet opens at 8. I do have 18G needles and I will inject the b complex if you think I should. But I've never done anything like that. As long as I'm talking to someone who is very knowledgeable in this area. I bet I could do it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oral is fine for a newborn. They don't have a functioning rumen yet to dilute the meds. They are essentially a single stomached creature until they start cudding.


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

I would just make the poor little guy a bottle baby and get him on a Stable schedule, eating the same thing every time.

It can be very frustrating and time consuming to get them to take a bottle, but they will eventually get it. Try with a bottle for 5 minutes. Then tube or drip feed an ounce if he doesn't drink.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Oral is fine for a newborn. They don't have a functioning rumen yet to dilute the meds. They are essentially a single stomached creature until they start cudding.


I read that as cuddling. What on earth does that have to do with meds? LOL.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

I gave him the electrolyte liquid about 15 min ago. He's exhausted. I'm gonna let him sleep little and me too then I'll try a bottle again when I get up to check on him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Seeing a vet in the morning is a very good idea...Go with your gut feeling here, if you suspect puenomia, then I would treat..I would ask your vet for Nuflor..enough for five days..he can recommend the dose per his size..itsonce a day for five days..you have done a remarkable job helping him thus far....trust yourself!
Keep giving the B orally, its less stressful on both of you...I would go ahead and up the dose a bit,,he will pee out what he dont need..
I agree with BCG, a stable schedual and diet is best...with this, he will most likely remain a bottle baby, but once strong will be able to live outside with his brother....He will come running when called for his bottle lol..
Keep us posted on what the vet has to say...Best wishes


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you happybleats! You are a blessing. I'll let you know what the vet says later today.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I am so sorry you're having such a rough time. You have done fantastic so far. Let us know what the vet says...


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## BCG (Jun 30, 2012)

So sorry you're having such a tough go with these kids. Hang in there and keep up the good work.

I would suspect that the kids aspirated some fluid when they were born causing the raspy breathing. As long as they do not have fevers and are not shivering even when warm, I'd let them work through it.


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## goatfarmer4891 (May 9, 2013)

Definitely warm him up and once his temp is up to 100 put some honey on your finger and let him suckle on it and then put honey on the bottle nipple....he should latch on


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## goatfarmer4891 (May 9, 2013)

Good luck and please keep us updated!!


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Look who is feeling better! Got fluids and antibiotics from the vet. He drank 2 oz from a bottle just now too! I've got myself a bottle baby!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes you do. Glad the vet was able to help you out. He will be a bottle baby but you should be able to put him out with the others when he is better.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Awww. Sweet little guy. Glad he's better. Good luck


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good Job!!!! he looks cute with a diaper lol


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

House.....I have been following your thread since yesterday and am so very glad everything came through for you. I saw that you are in Texas....so am I. It has really been cold for us the last few days but was in the 50's today. Where in Texas are you if you don't mind me asking! I live about 20 miles west of San Antonio. My name is Kathy. Again congrats on your new babies. I am new to goats. Just got my herd the end of August.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

house said:


> Look who is feeling better! Got fluids and antibiotics from the vet. He drank 2 oz from a bottle just now too! I've got myself a bottle baby!


Awww, he is so cute! One of these days someone is going to have to explain the science of diapering a goat. I've tried and have had zero luck with it working! :GAAH: :wallbang:


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## Sundancer (Jan 21, 2012)

This has to be one of the best threads I have seen on TGS in quite a while. A group of people fighting for the life of a little goat :applaud:

I have to say that I am quite proud of how this community, my community, came together to save a baby with great advice and genuine concern.

Please don't ever stop...you are all a godsend for people, and goats, in need.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Kathy, my name is Mary. We live near Houston. I'm thinking of starting to blog about all of this! I've learned a great deal about wimpy kids and bottling.
Ha! The diaper, well it works about 80% of the time. It seems like larger sizes fit better and the more snug I can get it, the better it stays in place. He had runny poo when my mother in law suggested I try it. 
*UPDATE* he slept from 12 to 6 am! And drank 4 oz from the bottle when he woke up. I gave him his antibiotic shot (first time.. we both did great!)
Last night my husband informs me it looks like the other kid may not be getting enough milk from Molly. He held her and let him nurse more. This morning, Im Headed out there to check his belly.
Oh help me... if I have to supplement milk for him as well!
I love hearing from all of you. I feel like I'm not so alone in this when I read everyone's comments and suggestions. Thank you all.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Sundancer, I could not have said it better myself! When I found him, I had no clue what to do and had no one to call and ask!
Scubacoz we purchased Molly and her nursing twins at the end of July. Apparently she was one month along when we brought these 3 home. They are Pygmies. But my husband says the dad of these new twins might be a larger breed.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im about 4-5 hours north west from you : ) I live Near Gustine...Good job with the shots!! its always scary at first!

OK you said runny poo and my alarm went off...so how runny? water runny or thick pudding? hereis a link to show baby poo...what is actually loose and whats normal..
http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.UqnMkGRDt6Q


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Happybleats, it was water the night before I took him to the vet. Now its mushy but has shape as well. So he's OK in that department now. Peeing good as well. But I'm concerned about the other kid. He wants to nurse but mom a won't let him. I wouldn't be concerned with it because if what I gave read about them wanting more than they need, except that his belly looks little sunk in . Not full and certainly not firm. I held Molly just now and let him nurse. I also tried to milk her and barely any came out. I made sure he nursed both dry. I'm making her more electrolyte drink now. Shes drinking a lot. 
Should I try to give the other baby a bottle too? Or just go outside every hour or two and gave him suck her dry? Or both? If I was nursing my baby, I would nurse dry first then feed a bottle if my baby wanted more. I also am a mom that did not make a whole lot if breast milk. *Suggestions on more to feed her to increase milk production, please! I don't have time to go searching on the internet!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes,,increase her feed slowly...adding alfalfa pellets/hay if she isnt getting them now...

Feel moms udder, is it soft or hard? If she is congested,,baby wont be able to get alot out...


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## goatfarmer4891 (May 9, 2013)

So happy to see that he is doing better!! Good job momma!!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

High protein feeds are good. Alfalfa pellets are easy; they're not as high as some feeds but will help.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

if she's already on grains and still not making enough milk, you can add some herbs to help up the milk production - fennel, dill and fenugreek are all milk increasers. any of the three would work. you can give up to 1-2tbsp per day with her grains.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Quinoa is a grain that is known to increase milk production for humans. Don't know if it would work for goats or not. Most grocery stores carry it now in the...let me think which aisle I've found it in....ummm...:chin: I want to say the baking aisle...but not sure. Might be the hot cereal aisle too. No clue how much you'd have to feed her tho.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I used Molly's Herbals Mo Milk....it's a mix of dill,fennel and fenugreek


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

house said:


> Kathy, my name is Mary. We live near Houston. I'm thinking of starting to blog about all of this! I've learned a great deal about wimpy kids and bottling. Ha! The diaper, well it works about 80% of the time. It seems like larger sizes fit better and the more snug I can get it, the better it stays in place. He had runny poo when my mother in law suggested I try it. *UPDATE* he slept from 12 to 6 am! And drank 4 oz from the bottle when he woke up. I gave him his antibiotic shot (first time.. we both did great!) Last night my husband informs me it looks like the other kid may not be getting enough milk from Molly. He held her and let him nurse more. This morning, Im Headed out there to check his belly. Oh help me... if I have to supplement milk for him as well! I love hearing from all of you. I feel like I'm not so alone in this when I read everyone's comments and suggestions. Thank you all.


Thanks Mary, I sure wish I could find some people out my way to get some good info from. One of my neighbors has about 4 goats but I don't see him out very much. I saw him once and we talked for a short time but he is rather new to goats also, I do know he had a doe who was due to deliver in a few days but not sure if he really knew what to do except to let nature do what it does best. That's not me, I will most definitely get involved with mine. .


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

scubacoz said:


> Thanks Mary, I sure wish I could find some people out my way to get some good info from. One of my neighbors has about 4 goats but I don't see him out very much. I saw him once and we talked for a short time but he is rather new to goats also, I do know he had a doe who was due to deliver in a few days but not sure if he really knew what to do except to let nature do what it does best. That's not me, I will most definitely get involved with mine. .











This is Oreo. My blu-eyed mini Nibian









This is Cinnamon, also a mini Nubian. She had a skin condition on her back and I had to shave her. So I keep a jacket on her to help keep her warm


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Aww, they are adorable


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Scubacoz they are beautiful!


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## scubacoz (Nov 7, 2013)

Thank you house.mthe little one in the coat is Cinnamon and she is my pet. It didn't start out like that but she picked me and I just adore her and she adores me.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

If anyone is interested, Tuff is doing well. Drinking 10oz and is sleeping outside with his brother, Tucker and his mom, Molly tonight. I'll make a mid night trip out there to check on everyone. Molly still isn't accepting Tuff but Tucker is still nursing. I'm not sure he's getting all he should because his belly is always a little sunk in and squishy so and I've started offering him a bottle as well he drinks about 1 or 2 oz. I hope this is what I should do. Molly doesn't seem to be making a lot of milk. I've tried to milk her a little, but only drops come out. She's a small pygmy and her teets are small and not very full of milk. I should be able to milk her even if the baby just nursed, right? 
Also, I'm mixing the electrolyte drink of molasses, salt, apple cider vinegar and water for molly and she drinks 4 quarts a day! Is that too much? The other morning when I took it out there, she drank 2 QTS in one sitting! Should I keep this drink available to her all the time?
Any info in these areas would be helpful.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing better. I would keep offering a bottle to the other one. He won't drink if he is getting enough.

How long have you been doing the electrolytes?


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Ksalvagno... I've made prob 4 buckets in about 6 days... 4 quarts each. Yesterday morning when I took the drink to her, she gulped down 2 QTS in just a few minutes!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is she doing well? If she is fine, I wouldn't leave it out all the time.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

She seems fine. Does she need it as part of a regular diet?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

house said:


> I'm not sure he's getting all he should because his belly is always a little sunk in and squishy so and I've started offering him a bottle as well he drinks about 1 or 2 oz. I hope this is what I should do. Molly doesn't seem to be making a lot of milk. I've tried to milk her a little, but only drops come out. She's a small pygmy and her teets are small and not very full of milk. I should be able to milk her even if the baby just nursed, right?


Offering a bottle to a baby that is sunk in and has a squishy tummy is exactly what you should be doing. A babies tummy should be full and firm - not hard, not squishy. They should also be active, have energy, and be running around and playing a good part of the day. As far as milking her after nursing, no, it is not always possible to milk a doe that has just been nursed. Whether she can be milked following nursing is going to depend on her milking ability, number of kids, as well as age and size of kids.


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you, goatcrazy! I just don't want to mess up her nursing him. He drinks about 1 or 2 oz out of the bottle. But he mistly just chews on it. Im feeling he isnt hungry when he does this. And his belly is more firm today. He's very active and jumping around. He was first out of his bed to greet us this morning. I'll keep my eye on him but I think I'm doing the right thing.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like both kids are doing well, Good job!!...I had a mom have triplets, two which were bucks and ate very well and one doe who seemed to be doing fine, then we began to notice her back was hunched and her tail tucked...yet we saw her nurse all the time...I took a few ounces of milk to her in a bottle and she gobbled it right up....did that two times a day and it made all the difference...Brothers were sucking all the milk and by the time she got to mom, she had little left for her...So my point lol..Just watch for a sunken tummy, hunched back, slow growth...these are all signs mom is not providing enough milk ...

best wishes


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## house (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you all!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good work


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## tuffrogs (Aug 3, 2013)

I've been looking for this thread for a while!! I wanted to tell everyone who helped me and Tuff pull through!! I guess when I started this thread, I couldnt find my login info and started posting as "house". Tuff is happy and relatively healthy. He has soremouth right now. But I am watching it and cleaning with vinegar. I'm going to look for a photo to post as well. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Goat Forum mobile app


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing well.


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