# Hit me with advise for a wether



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

This is my sons first year showing a wether and we really don't get all that much help from our 4h group. Can't really complain the leader has a job with crazy hours but we are a bit lost and confused. 
So my son picked out his wether. He and I agreed he was the better one (like we know so much lol) and had 2 other people that came to buy kids say he was the better one as well. We got him and his mom in today and weighed him, he's 69.4 pounds so at weight so we tossed mom out and will get a buddy to stick in with him. 
He's at weight. The weight limit is 60 to 110. He has gained 0.75# a day and this is being out and about no feed pushed to him. I figure he will loose some weight since he is now being weaned but we really don't have to push the feed on him. How would you feed this guy? I was planning on making a buffet of all he can eat feed with his grain and first cutting alfalfa (which he already gets at night) but now I don't know what to do.
Also here are some pics of him. Not decent I know but does anyone have any suggestions on what he might need to make him better and how to do it. I'm not expecting to win first place I just want the kid to do decent his first time since he is far from a lazy boy and takes so much pride in everything he does


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

What is his age? I have not ever done market wether or 4h but we have a creep feeder set up with Grassy hay and alfalfa hay for kids to access as much as they want. Not sure if you want to limit hay to stop the big hay belly? 
How far away is the show?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

He is 2 1/2 months old and 77ish days to go. It's usually the first week of September I'm just not sure what the actual date is just yet. 
I have no idea on the hay lol does he look like he has a big belly? Well he might there because he just finished his breakfast.


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## Bree_6293 (Aug 4, 2014)

I always give mine free choice hay but some say to limit hay leading up to a show. I would feed grain twice a day with alfalfa chaff or pellets and hay either free choice or twice a day  good protein is important. We feed soaked whole barley, soaked cracked lupins, 16% pellet, fibre beet and small amount cracked corn and BOSS. I mix all of this together and feed between 1-4 cups to non producing goats. Do you want him to get to top weight before the show? I have heard a lot of people talk about walking/ jogging for muscling? 
Hopefully someone with more experience comments


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok that's basically what Rodger suggested to me on FB as well so instead of slamming the grain to him I'll do 2X. 
We don't really care if he tops out we kinda went from crossing our fingers he would make weight to he's already at weight so we don't want him to be a fat little pig coming in or freakishly larger then the others.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

We are starting our second year with market goats. What we learned in the past year is that you want to be able to regulate what they eat. You want to know how much they are eating each feeding. Basically they need to be in a pen by themselves. You should feed them 2 times a day and do it 12 hours apart. I would start with a pound each feeding and see how he does. You can adjust from there. Watch the layer of fat on his rib cage. You want it to feel like the back of your hand. You should feel a small layer over the bone. You can add sunflower seeds to add fat, adjust the protein and fat of your feed as needed. Supposedly if you give a baseball size amount of alfalfa 30 minutes before feeding it will help get the rumen going. When you do this, shake all the leaves free and feed the stems. Break them into 1-2" pieces. 

We started using Purina High Octane Champion drive recently. We have gone through one bucket and the goats have really filled out. I don't know if it is their normal development, but they look good. It is expensive. 

Keep fresh water. Ours drink about 1 gallon per day on a normal day. 

For exercise, you want them running for their lives. You don't want to jog them long distances. You want short sprints at top speed with a little recovery time between sprints. We usually sprint them about 100 yards for about 4-5 times. When they start to breath heavy, put them away. 

If you can get them on a treadmill, it will help. Walk them backwards on the treadmill. I haven't done it yet, but all the people that have won the shows we go to said they walk theirs backwards on the treadmill.

Watch his weight if you are anywhere near the top end of the weight range. We didn't and we went over with a goat for our show last week. Now we have a new pet.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Thank you so much! We have the high octane and have started adding that in. In side his pen I had already set up a feeder planning on his mom staying with him for another month-ish so it won't be hard to watch him and still let him have a friend who is a yearling that can't fit threw.
I don't have a treadmill but can look on Craigslist for one, but there is a Lane way that leads up to his pen that is very steep so I'll have him start running him back and forth on that. Thank you so much! I'm hoping the leader will be there when we do his first weigh in July and she can do a more hands on opinion on him. In the pictures do you see anything that really points to yuck on him?


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

It is very hard to judge from a picture, especially if the goat isn't shaved. From the picture, I love his front. He looks wide and thick. It may just be his hair, but his back end looks like there isn't much to it. The great ones have big thick defined backs of the thigh. They also have a muscular and wide topline. They also seem to have two circular muscles popping out on the rump. I am new at this, so keep that in mind. We are learning too. 

Our goats have been weak in the tops of the shoulders. Supposedly a treadmill will help that. 

One more idea I heard, but haven't tried is to make hurdles in his pen area. Nothing much, but make it where he has to periodically jump to get around. The lady that told me said she used cattle panels and made barriers about 18" tall and he had to jump them to get to the feed or water.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Great! We are on the right track then, his butt is the only thing that really turned me off and I wish he had bigger bones but his length and chest is what really passed the others. Jumps are a wonderful idea and would be so easy to set up. I hope he's taking after his dad though because over 3 months he went from just this blah guy to a super impressive back end so our fingers are crossed on that. 
Ok next question lol so we are just now working on halter breaking and showing him we are not going to eat him alive. I was trying to get better pictures of him which didn't work out because when we grabbed him he would try to jerk back so how do you even get a animal to brace? I'm hoping your going to say once he calms down he will lol but I'm sure it's not that easy


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

The way we were told to make them brace was to push them backwards until they fight back. Basically try to brace them and then walk them backwards. I have seen some people pick the front end up and push backwards. I have seen people walk them backwards all around the arena until they fight back. As soon as they dig in to push, set them in position and keep pressure on their chest pushing back. 

Now if that doesn't work, you can use what we call the Macie trick, because Macie told us how to do it. Take the goat to a drop off and push them backwards until they fall off. It doesn't have to be much of a drop off, but it will scare them. We usually push them off of a concrete foundation that is about a 10 inch drop. They don't like falling backwards. You want them to think if you push them backwards they will fall so they push back. Some people use larger drop offs, but 10" has worked for us.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Wow, that weight is amazing for him only being 2-1/2 months. He's a very handsome guy. Makes me realize just how much farther I have to go with getting my kids up to snuff. :ROFL::dazed:


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The top of the hill I have the main goat area was flattened off and then there's a pretty good drop but not up and down so that will work I think. I'm always worried about falling going down it lol if it doesn't work I'm sure we can make something with ply boards and rounds if wood.
Thank you Lstein I have to say though I think he is the best kid I have out there. Well no I have a few girls I'm in love with but he for sure is the best boy out there. I weighed a mid sized kid about a week before this guy and he was 42 so not all my kids have his weight gain at all!


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Hi  Jessica I haven't been able to get on here the app is just now working regularly for me. Just curious if you figured everything out and if you still had questions on bracing and all that fun stuff.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Aww thank you  well kinda. Lol we met with a gal last week and she showed the kids how to brace, wish it was sooner then 2 weeks before the fair but beggers can't be choosers lol he is finally understanding bracing (me too) we tried to build muscle by the jumps and I got a harness for him to drag around and he ran him but he was starting to really loose weight and look like crap so we stopped that and just kept feeder up high so he has to step up. Sadly we lost his dam to mastitis  so we let him out during the day to run and play. I think he still needs bulking on his butt but it kinda is what it is right now :/


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

So sorry about his Dam. 

How much grain was he getting when you were really working him? With all of that he should have had a high fat/protein intake. We really pump them full of it the last month or so and that's when we run them and jump them intensely. If that is a recent picture of him I think he looks good and it sounds like y'all have learned a few things to change for the next project.

Is your son bracing him in that photo? If so let me go through some of my photos and find a few that show how I do it. I'm not sure how intense the kids drive the goats at your fair but I personally love to see a massive brace and push back for the goats and think he's goat would look great really pushed.

Here is a picture of me practicing with one of my wether for an October fair.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No he just got done bracing him there. That was from a week ago. We fed/feeding him free choice on the grain. We also cut out the high octane because he wouldn't touch his grain ugh it in there.....really don't blame him it smelled so bad lol the lady told him when bracing to grab the ear (not hard kinda under the ear) with one hand and grab his jaw bone with the other and lift......I'll get a picture of him doing it tonight. He has grown so much though. If my scale is right (it's right on my weight lol) he is 83 pounds. I'll find the tag for his grain. He is getting associated sheep feed because the protein is way higher then the goat....and he loves it!


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

I've always been told not to free feed. They don't get hungry that way and they don't eat as much. That could have been a big factor as to why he lost weight when you were working him like that. My wethers always clean up what I give them. Once they clean up what's fed in about 10 minutes then I add more. If they start to leave extra a back it up just a tad.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

So kinda give them all they want each feeding (morning and night)?? But nothing threw out the day?


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

I give them enough in the morning just to make it through to night time feeding. That way each time you feed they are hungry and they eat what I give them. When you feed at set times of the day it doesn't necessarily mean limit feed it just means they should be hungry enough to eat what you offer. This allows you to add in things for muscle, cover, and growth and them not turn up their nose to it. Do you give free choice hay? 

I free fed my first wether and will never do it again.


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Also sounds like the lady who helped you with bracing told you pretty darn close to how I do it. Last question lol, do you guys tie him up every day?


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

@Jessica84 looking forward to hear how your son did with his wether! Not sure if you show this weekend or next week but excited for you guys!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I will let you know! Things have been crazy around here trying to get does with bucks and gathering cows and getting him ready but I think he is ready! We have learned so much with this helper lady on how to show and since she has been a judge many times has showed us both what to look for in the next wether......we kinda just went with the longest looking kid we had. 
But hopefully the leader keeps her plans or clipping Monday (we have no clue on wethers and need a little advise on the does). Take them to the fair Tuesday, show Wednesday and sells Saturday so I will let you know how he does! I'm super excited to see how he does on all 3 of his goats


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I know this won't help this year but one of the boys that bought from me this year shared what he does with his wether to help build muscle. It's worth a try next year. This wether was a light weight so didn't stand a chance in overall but he did good this past saturday.









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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

This is what he looked like Saturday









His sister didn't work with her wether enough and didn't train it like him so he just didn't have enough muscle but I didn't think he turned out too bad. She ended up getting 4th in the class.









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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh wow! That is impressive! I like that idea a lot. I was looking at this feeder that is basically like that steep angle and they lock them in it but I have a stand so that will work better! The list of things I need to build is out of control so one less thing to make!
With having January kids he can pick his wether and work with him a lot sooner this to around.


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

I love that idea! I think it would definitely help with our "workout" here! We usually tie them up where they have to stand with feet on the fence or a bucket to be comfy but they figure out a way around it in about 10 minutes. lol


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Official weigh in today! 5 months old and 91#. The other kids in our club are 90-93 and are fall winter kids so I am so stoked on that alone. He shows tomorrow and I don't think he's the best goat out there but I do t think he will come in last (I hope lol)


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Wow! Great weight gain!!! Excited to see how he does with him! Tell him I said good luck and have fun! Cheering for him.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Good luck


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

First thank you guys for the good luck, you guys made him smile! Also thank you to all your help. You helped that kid out so much with this little guy and we have learned so much! 
So first his little FB black dapple got first in her class and then they only gave placing for grand and reserve (1st and second) so I don't know how she did against all the doelings. He was so stoked!
Second his red doe the judge loved except she was short from the hips to pins, he said if it wasn't for that she would have done so much better.
Wether :/ he got 8th (last) he flat out just needed more time. He was good on everything but the rump and the judge flat out said he could tell he was young but he's judging on ready not in the future so totally understandable! He's crushed but we knew he wasn't going to do the best but we will have older kids next year so I told him this was learning we will try again.
CHEATERS!!! The grand was a wether that the bought from a fancy sale and if you buy from that sale you get your own personal trainer and fitter and they feed the dang animal for you! Reserve probably should have won but they also put in the bred and fed and I know the breeder that kid didn't breed that wether so he got first on bred and fed :/ that's the only part that upset me today. But he still has showmanship so we shall see


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Crap like that almost makes me not want to show! It's not fair and the honest hard working kids are the ones who deserve to win. 

Please tell him he did a great job for me! And that I'm still wishing him luck for showmanship!


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## NathanD (Sep 6, 2017)

Jessica84 said:


> First thank you guys for the good luck, you guys made him smile! Also thank you to all your help. You helped that kid out so much with this little guy and we have learned so much!
> So first his little FB black dapple got first in her class and then they only gave placing for grand and reserve (1st and second) so I don't know how she did against all the doelings. He was so stoked!
> Second his red doe the judge loved except she was short from the hips to pins, he said if it wasn't for that she would have done so much better.
> Wether :/ he got 8th (last) he flat out just needed more time. He was good on everything but the rump and the judge flat out said he could tell he was young but he's judging on ready not in the future so totally understandable! He's crushed but we knew he wasn't going to do the best but we will have older kids next year so I told him this was learning we will try again.
> CHEATERS!!! The grand was a wether that the bought from a fancy sale and if you buy from that sale you get your own personal trainer and fitter and they feed the dang animal for you! Reserve probably should have won but they also put in the bred and fed and I know the breeder that kid didn't breed that wether so he got first on bred and fed :/ that's the only part that upset me today. But he still has showmanship so we shall see


I wasn't just wondering if you could give me any advice on raising market goats for 4-h. I am doing them next year but there isn't enough information that I can find.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

LibertysBoerGoatRanch said:


> Crap like that almost makes me not want to show! It's not fair and the honest hard working kids are the ones who deserve to win.
> 
> Please tell him he did a great job for me! And that I'm still wishing him luck for showmanship!


It's really not fair but I wouldn't have been so mad if it didn't say right there in bold letter with the rules that the person showing must fit it. I might be wrong on the tending to but I remember reading that and kinda laughing because we are such a small fair who would hire someone to fit their goats. Guess I was wrong lol 
He didn't do well on showmanship. He was done his goat was done they only gave placing for the first 2 and he was far from the first two


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

NathanD look back threw this and there is a lot of good idea on building muscle. For the showing it's self the biggest turning point I saw in that goats was when he kept their heads up high. You can't tell in the picture but that red doe has a massive chest on her and when he put her head super high that made it even bigger. I'm going to get better pretty pictures of all the goats so I'll show you then. We are so hot and tired right now :/ 
Bracing I tried to explain it before by grabbing the ear with one hand and the jaw bone with the other and lifting. That wether wouldn't even attempt to brace till the lady showed him that and I have no clue why that would make them brace but it did and then at the end he didn't even need to grab anything like that. 
The lady also said that the wether had a hump in the shoulders so had him put his front feet on his feet to kinda even him out. The does we didn't brace. The one was a spoiled bottle baby and the other was just to big for him so he showed them like a normal breeding doe.


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Went to the San Bernardino fair for the first time this year and was shocked to see the same guy fitting all of the kids goats in his group! Every fair I've gone to fitting must be done by the showman. It irks me to see so many kids win when they don't put the work in! And you can totally tell when it's the first time they've ever worked with that animal too! 

I'm sure you've already told your son but he won today by learning and doing the best he could. 

Do you plan on going to state this year?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It was something that was supposed to be fun and educational and they are ruined it. I don't disagree with a parent or another child helping out but to do it all just teaches that kid to be lazy. We made him do it all except for fluffing the wethers legs and only because we had 2 stands to share and by the time it was open he was showing jasmine again and needed the wether ready. But I believe in HELPING others out and helping your family and you bet when he had nothing going on he was helping. 
I don't think we will do state this year. I have so much going on right now with the fair and then gathering cows and trying to make everything easy for my dad to take care of my goats when I leave next month to a AI class the whole leaving home has a bad taste in my mouth right now lol maybe once we get things together more we can try it next year. I think he would have fun. He really did have a blast but that first place off the bat helped things out


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Oh don't get me wrong my mom helps me out a ton because I'm that one kids who brings all her does  I think anyone who shows needs and deserves help at one point. But you are absolutely right if someone does it all for the kid they are only being taught to be lazy.

I'm debating wether or not I want to go. It's pretty far for me and I'm not even sure I'd have the goats to compete. Not that it's about winning, just traveling so far doesn't seem worth it. I hope that doesn't sound bad lol

Your fair is just ending and I'm 21 days out from mine and losing my mind. Also so much to get done but so little time lol


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No! Totally makes sense. No it's not always about winning but it sucks when you don't do well and add a long drive to it and it's worse. BUT as someone older and wiser (haha) don't ever do or don't do something you will regret. So if going to state is something you really want to do then go for it! Make sure you have a good time.
Oh boy the fair snuck up so dang fast lol I'm not sure if we were ever ready for it lol but now that the big day is done and my feet don't hurt any more it was fun! Of course I have no due dates on any does bred this week so I'll be cursing it in about 5 months lol
And I just realized I never posted pics!! I need to get them up on FB too


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Aww I saw them on FB already tell your son I said Congrats again! 
Second to last picture of him bracing shows of that goat so well.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm glade you brought that up! Someone on my personal FB said that he had his back legs to far back and doesn't show off his butt like he should have ???? I admit the poor guy lacked butt lol but that was also the wether, he would put his back legs that far back when bracining. The last picture was the when they took the picture to give
To the buyer and the lady with the camera rushed him. Just all of a sudden she's like smile!


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

In my opinion he is definitely not to far out. I'll post a really crappy picture my mom took of me working my wether below showing how far that little dude pops his legs out! Maybe it's just my opinion I'd rather see them out a touch to far and comfortable then with there legs to far under them. The more natural looking when bracing the better. When I saw the picture I actually said his butt doesn't look as bad a Jessica said it was. But again it might just be my opinion I tend to show way different then most around me. lol 








Some would definitely argue this wether is to far out but my coach and others say he's fine right there. 








Last picture is how I set that wether up every time, 1st in Showmanship and no problems with how far out he was.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok great! Our leader is really bad about being honest lol that's not exactly the word but she doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so you'll ask something and it's always it looks fine they did fine. Sadly we actually learned more from her friend that came into help then with her.
He built his butt up pretty good for him but I have to say there were some awesome wethers there! I really can't say he didn't deserve to come in last.....the animal not my son, my heart broke for him because he worked so hard but he's already looking forward to next year and telling me his 'game plan' lol


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok great! Our leader is really bad about being honest lol that's not exactly the word but she doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so you'll ask something and it's always it looks fine they did fine. Sadly we actually learned more from her friend that came into help then with her.
He built his butt up pretty good for him but I have to say there were some awesome wethers there! I really can't say he didn't deserve to come in last.....the animal not my son, my heart broke for him because he worked so hard but he's already looking forward to next year and telling me his 'game plan' lol


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Awww I'm so glad he's already working on his "game plan" for the next round!

That's how my advisors were with me when I showed with them. Not much help with anything other then accusing me of cheating lol. If only y'all were closer! I'm glad he had fun and is walking away with more knowledge and ready to tackle the next go around.

Can't wait to see what he picks and how he does with that one, With his "Game plan" set in stone.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh now I gotta hear how you cheated lol that's a pretty heavy thing To accuse someone of! Even the little girls who daddy paid $3,000 for the wether I didn't find right but it wasn't cheating. Now not feeding it but having the breeder feed and fit it I find cheating because it's written right there in the rules! 
Now I'm not complaining (much) but I did notice that when it came to everyone fitting their animals with our club there was more time spent on her daughters. I can't say anything because whatever time she gives to the other kids is better then none. I'm sure she is kinda between a rock and a hard spot being a mom and a leader.
I do have to laugh at Joshua though (my son) we had our monthly community 4h meeting last night and everyone said how they did at the fair. He said "well I didn't get first second or even third with my wether, I got dead last". So he totally bounced back and makes me more proud.and yeah I totally wish we were closer lol if it wasn't for that whole riverside area down there (cringe). I have yet to be in that area without being hit by someone


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

To make it a short story I am the only one in my chapter that shows Boer breeders. Only one other students has a breeding project. From the start of fair(breeders haul in the weekend before fair, so it's not crowded and a huge mess)and the whole show I was literally on my own while they waited hand and foot on the other student with her heifer. My now coach brought a doe for her daughter to use in peewee showmanship. Her daughter really wanted to show the doe in its age class, so we got permission to put the doe under my name by the superintendent of the fair to allow the kid to show her goat. I never touched the goat until final drive and she ended up with one of my goats and I with hers. We were helping each other nothing to it. 
Well her doe ended up wining Grand Champion and judge had nothing but great things to say about her. 
Through out all of this my mom, family, and coach all swear the judge said my dappled doe ended up getting reserve Grand. We asked my advisors to inquire about it and they did nothing. 

Two weeks later they call me into the office all 3 advisors and my principal tell me they are going to take ALL ribbions and premiums away and make me sign a contract stating if I break any more rules I can't show through them and I'll be in trouble with the school. All over me not owning the doe for 60 days. Granted yes, I didn't, but I didn't show the doe and had permission from the fair board to do what we did. All out on the open everyone new and nobody else had any problems with it. Advisors were upset because I would have won if her doe wasn't in the ring. Umm who was there when I needed someone to ask if my doe got reserve? 
But let's also not forget they allowed a student to pick a pig two weeks out from fair because they wouldn't make enough to gain a chapter degree if they didn't sell two animals. 

Y'all can't tell me I cheated and broke a 60 day rule and punish me for the exact same thing y'all allowed students to do. At least I had permission! 

Maybe I cheated, and if I did it was never my intention but don't call me out for the same exact thing you did.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't think that's cheating I think that would have been a misunderstanding. Maybe not all on one person but still a misunderstanding. It sucks that they tried to put it all on you, the kid (young lady minor whatever doesn't offend you lol) I think even if that happened during a fair my kid was at as long as it wasn't done being a sneaky person I wouldn't have a issue with it. But I look at things different I know that can't be said for all parents or kids.


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Right, I apologized and told them it's not like a had the intention to cheat others out of winning. Let alone my self lol. But biggest problem was them calling me a cheater and making a big ordeal about it when they did the exact thing. But when questioned about it they were above the rules. I didn't know showing silly goats got so complicated until then


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol right! Oh people are crazy! It should be fun and when people take that away what's the point in it? But your right that whole showing against your own animal should have been a big sign you really were not cheating


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Exactly! If my doe was the best she would have one no matter who's goat was in the ring. But walking away from that experience and taking a step back from my chapter I realized I really wasn't having fun. I started showing independent and now I have a blast and absolutely love helping the younger kids with their projects. I think I live for that.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Awww your such a good person! We did independent last year, I wasn't going to have my son in the mix of all the BS but we realized we didn't have a clue what we were doing. Now I have mixed feelings lol it was very helpful being in a group to a point, especially having someone help remember days like weigh ins but at the fair I think it was less work being independent lol we will stick it out for now though. But SO MANY kids showed independent! I did independent the last 2 years and me and my brothers were the only ones, everyone was confused by it. I'm thinking that might should be a huge eye opener!


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

I don't think there are very many independent kids my age showing. Lots of younger ones. But there is a good chunks of 4-H that I show with so I'm lucky for that. So it's not just me out there. 
I much prefer independent because I don't have all the club/chapter rules and deadlines. I can get things done how we want and set our own deadlines which is great. 
But at the same time I do wish I had a group to be apart of and to be able to help each other out.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ugh I hear you on dead lines and such. Like the stupid record books. That's another story and I was lost and confused on it so we sat down did the best we could and didn't do well lol but it was done and he couldn't show unless it was done so that was a pain. I think my biggest issue as a group was we only had so much room at the fair so only 2 fitting stands. When he sold Joshua just blew him off and went For it. A lot of kids had to share pens and I'll tell you if another goat beat the snot out of one of his I would have come off the wall but he had enough he got his own pen. I'll have to make sure that keeps happening lol. but if he was independent he for sure would get his own pen no matter how many he had


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Yes the whole pen sharing thing really got me. They wanted to put other goats with my breeders. I'm no thank you! Yes I get by bringing them to any show I'm risking it but I'm not putting a random animal in my pen to have the eat, drink, and touch noses none stop. Then bring whatever germs that pick up back home. Nope nope nope. 
I am so glad I don't have to do record books! I mean I keep records of things but nothing compares to what you need for a record book.


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Fitting stand is another thing in glad I don't have to share! Only have to wait for open wash racks now! Which is great!


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## LibertysBoerGoatRanch (Aug 26, 2016)

Fitting stand is another thing in glad I don't have to share! Only have to wait for open wash racks now! Which is great!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

***Bumping for someone***


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## Kaylasisco87 (3 mo ago)

LibertysBoerGoatRanch said:


> Also sounds like the lady who helped you with bracing told you pretty darn close to how I do it. Last question lol, do you guys tie him up every day?


I know this is an old thread but may I ask why and how you tie them up every day. We are learning to cause my daughter is showing a goat for ffa. .


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