# All Stock, Sweet Feed or....?



## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I didn't want to hijack the other "all stock" thread...so here's my situation: 

I've been feeding my Nubians a custom mix and they seem to be doing very well on it. Unfortunately, space is becoming an issue (to store the various containers and bags). In addition, I'm getting ready to start a major home construction project (yes...I'll be doing the building!), so any time and energy I can shave from my schedule will be critical...and mixing feed is just 10 minutes every few days that I won't have to deal with! So I'm trying to identify an alternative. 

I've been feeding my girls a mix of oats, alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, barley and BOSS (with a little chopped corn thrown in for winter). My boys get a 2:1 mix of alfalfa pellets and sweet feed. Plus free choice minerals and kelp, hay and forage, and a copper bolus occasionally if indicated. Again, all seem to be doing very well on these rations. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? Unfortunately...

I have been thinking about switching them all to the alfalfa/sweet feed mix. Then I've been seeing some comments about just feeding straight alfalfa pellets. 3 of my 4 girls are pregnant, and my two milkers are just about dry, so my primary goal at present is to get them all thru the winter to healthy spring kidding. Then milk production will again be a goal. My buck is just under 2 years old (so still growing) and I have a not quite 1 year old wether (also still growing). I do not want to feed a medicated feed, and economy (without seriously sacrificing quality) is important. 

Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## fcdairygoats (Jun 24, 2013)

I am one of those, if it aint broke don't fix it...why? Because I have switched feeds so many times over the years because this or that works for this or that person and I thought hey it may work for us and make this easier or whatever and it is always a fail for me. 

I would not ever feed my goats a sweet feed from the farm store. They put way to much molasses in it for one and two it's not really all that healthy. It would never work for my goats. The bucks are working in the fall and sweet feed would never keep them in condition. I would have to add stuff to it and eventually that would take way too much time. The girls I know for a fact would not milk well on it nor would they keep a good enough condition to step out in the ring for show. Kids wouldn't grow well. I know plenty of people in this area who have fed sweet feed mixes from the farm stores...I've silently compared my goats conditions to theirs. No thank you. I will stick with my grain mix. I have to have several hundred pounds mixed at a time and it's over $150 for the whole mix each time but I will do that over trying to switch feeds. I've used prebagged feeds before that were made for goats and I found they had way too much molasses added to them as well. 


Instead of switching to something since it's not "broke" I would look at and think about how can I switch what I am doing now to make it easier in the future? 

The grain mix I am feeding I use to mix by hand. We use to do small amounts then the number of goats increased so we set aside an afternoon where we would mix a barrel's worth of grain...well the number increased again (why must goats be like potato chips? You can't just stop at one or two!) so I switched to the elevator.

Could you keep the same mix and mix up a week or two worth of grain (or even a month's worth) at a time so you don't have to deal with it every few days?


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

fcdairygoats said:


> Could you keep the same mix and mix up a week or two worth of grain (or even a month's worth) at a time so you don't have to deal with it every few days?


I had been mixing a 5 gallon bucket at a time. Recently switched to a 15 gallon can...that does indeed help. But I'm still dealing with the storage issue (which in actuality is the larger issue). You indicated you have an elevator mix yours...can you share a little on that? How you approached them, how much they mix, bag, etc? That might be a solution if I can find an elevator willing to work with me.

Do you mind sharing your recipe? If you don't mind, I'd like to compare it to what I'm using.

Any thoughts on the alfalfa pellet alone thing? Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I don't know how elevators work other places but around me you have to buy a ton for them to mix it for you.

Another option is to look at horse feed. You can find horse feed that has proper ratios.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I will say I have tried a lot of different feeds that work for other people and I keep going back to the original feed I get from a local feed mill. The nutritionist really knows what he is doing and my girls all look great on it. It is a 16% sweet feed but I am super happy with it. These pictures are kind of old, from halloween. My girls actually could use a diet but since it's winter I won't do that. In the spring they will go on pasture only so that may help them.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> I don't know how elevators work other places but around me you have to buy a ton for them to mix it for you.
> 
> Another option is to look at horse feed. You can find horse feed that has proper ratios.


Your girls do look nice, Roger!

Karen -- maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. The "sweet feed" I'm using for my boys (and contemplating for my girls) is horse feed. The feed store I do the bulk of my trading with carries 2-3 mixes, differing primarily in protein levels. I'm feeding the boys a 13% (mixed 1 pt sf with 2 pt alfalfa pellets). I figure if I switched the girls I'd have to upgrade to a higher protein -- ya think? Yes...a ton would be *way* more than I could store!!! I can still check into that option to be sure, however. If I could make that happen in manageable quantities and affordable prices, that would likely be my best option.

What do ya'll feel about my 2:1 mix? As I said, it seems to be doing well with my two boys, but I've heard that milkers really need higher protein (than 13%) but also that too high protein can exacerbate meaty udders...which one of my milkers has. :worried:No one promised this would be easy!!! onder: Where's a good "cook book" when we need one!


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Roger -- is your feed formulated specifically for goats? Is it a local blend or available in other locales?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's really easier than what you'd think to mix all your grain up at once. It takes me about 1/2 an hour every 6 weeks or so. 
I don't feed high protein grain to my dairy does. They get enough protein from their alfalfa pellets.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

goathiker said:


> It's really easier than what you'd think to mix all your grain up at once. It takes me about 1/2 an hour every 6 weeks or so.
> I don't feed high protein grain to my dairy does. They get enough protein from their alfalfa pellets.


What (specifically) do you feed your dairy does? Thanks!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

200 lbs whole oats
100 lbs rolled barley
40 lbs animax (whey pellets)
40 lbs black oil sunflower seeds
20 lbs green split peas 

Free choice alfalfa pellets
Free choice grass/teff hay
free choice cobalt/iodine block, loose minerals, and sea salt rock


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## fcdairygoats (Jun 24, 2013)

top_goat said:


> I had been mixing a 5 gallon bucket at a time. Recently switched to a 15 gallon can...that does indeed help. But I'm still dealing with the storage issue (which in actuality is the larger issue). You indicated you have an elevator mix yours...can you share a little on that? How you approached them, how much they mix, bag, etc? That might be a solution if I can find an elevator willing to work with me.
> 
> Do you mind sharing your recipe? If you don't mind, I'd like to compare it to what I'm using.
> 
> Any thoughts on the alfalfa pellet alone thing? Thanks!


We had been getting the grain there for years prior to having them mix it. At the time we didn't have enough goats for them to mix it so they ordered our dairy pellet because they are a KENT dealer and we got the corn/oats/beet pulp etc there and mixed it our self. Once we got up to a large number of goats I gave them the recipe and asked them to mix it. You will have to ask the elevator how much they require to be mixed. Not all elevators require a ton to be mixed at a time. Ours do not. My recipe mix equals under 1000lbs. 
My current mix was adjusted to add protein and fat due to the grass hay not being as good as it was in the past. We had a bad year for hay. 

They use the reusable bags and they normally do not over fill them. The owner knows its just me and my mom handling the grain so he's told the guys not to make the bags heavy and the one time they did he apologized and told them in front of us not to ever make them heavy like that again. Normally only have an issue if there is a new guy and he doesn't know its just us moving the grain! lol

I have fed grass hay free choice with alfalfa pellets and no grain. It would work for my dry stock/open stock, but it didn't work with my working stock (mean working bucks, milking does, pregnant does) This is why I always say don't fix it if it's not broke. One person can feed grass hay, alfalfa pellets, and plain ol'oats on the milk stand and have gorgeous does with great milk production.....when I tried that all my goats lost weight and every single one of them dropped production by over half! Some people use pre-bagged feeds and again awesome condition and good milk production..my goats? Nope. They dropped drastically. After that I said no more. I am going with what I know for a fact that works for my herd and and will tweak the recipe when need to make up for hay/time of year, needs etc. But I will not up and change because so and so's goats are doing great on another recipe...lol

I use a dairy pellet made by KENT it's Provider 38 (for dairy cows), oats, rolled corn, shredded beet pulp, gold kote oil, molasses, & this is the first year we used soybean oil in the mix...


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

It is made specifically for goats but it is a local blend not sold anywhere else. Which sticks because it's a 35 minute drive and I have 4 other feed stores or mills closer. That's one reason why I have tried different feeds but this one seems to be the best for them. They always have nice healthy coats and love the feed as you can see. Plus they are growing really well on it. I honestly don't feed a lot of grain because I won't breed them till they are 15-18 months old so I don't need them to grow super fast and end up fat. Most of their food is in the form of pasture, browze, and hay. This time of year they get a good alfalfa/grass mix. But the rest of the year if they get hay it's just grass hay. In the spring when the grass comes on they will be off grain until 2 weeks before breeding.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Thank you GoatHiker and FCDairyGoats! The specificity really helps! I'm still less than 2 years into my goats, and there's been so much trial and error...some successes (which have been wonderful) but lots of errors! :? I'm not looking to "copy" what someone else does 'cause -- like you say FCD -- each goat, farm, environment is unique and what works here might not work quite the same there. But having a model, and example, a pattern (or several, for that matter) to evaluate and compare and perhaps tweak to my situation...that's so very helpful! I really appreciate your input!


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks, Roger! Add your name into that post above...:grin:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I did the same thing for a while, trying everything that came along because "it must be better". It never was. I don't like to force my does to milk beyond what they are bred for with a lot of grain and protein, I also don't want dull thin goats. 

I did forget to mention that I mix replamin into their grain once a week. I started it fairly recently and have been happy with the results so far.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Haha no problem that's what is great about this forum is everyone is very willing to help. I am not sure what is in the pellets in my feed but then it has some cracked corn, rolled soybeans, oats, and some hulls. Also some molasses but not as much as normal bagged sweet feed.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

goathiker said:


> I did the same thing for a while, trying everything that came along because "it must be better". It never was. I don't like to force my does to milk beyond what they are bred for with a lot of grain and protein, I also don't want dull thin goats.
> 
> I did forget to mention that I mix replamin into their grain once a week. I started it fairly recently and have been happy with the results so far.


Yup...I've been feeding this mix for a little over a year -- it's not too different from yours except where you have whey and peas, I have alfalfa pellets and beet pulp. As I said, overall I'm very pleased with how they're doing on it.

I got the email of a nutritionist at a nearby feed co-op/mill. I'm going to write him to see what they might be able to put together for me...see if it's do-able. Otherwise, I figure I'll stick with my mix.

Thanks everybody for the input!


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## NWIndianaBoers (Mar 18, 2013)

Depending on how many goats you have and how much you go through a good option for mixing and storing is an old chest freezer. I have an old one that holds about 700lbs of grain when mixed and keeps it in a sealed container. 

I feed a complete pellet mixed with a different brands sweet feed at about 1:3 ratio. My pellet I get delivered into a bulk bin and bring it in by the bag. Fill the bag up so they hold about 75 lbs then dump that in and mix with a half bag of the sweet feed so 100lbs gets mixed at a time. Then repeat until full. Really easy that way. It lasts me less than a week so quite used to the routine haha but assuming you have a lot less animals I'm sure a set up like that would last many farms a month or longer.


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## fcdairygoats (Jun 24, 2013)

top_goat said:


> Thank you GoatHiker and FCDairyGoats! The specificity really helps! I'm still less than 2 years into my goats, and there's been so much trial and error...some successes (which have been wonderful) but lots of errors! :? I'm not looking to "copy" what someone else does 'cause -- like you say FCD -- each goat, farm, environment is unique and what works here might not work quite the same there. But having a model, and example, a pattern (or several, for that matter) to evaluate and compare and perhaps tweak to my situation...that's so very helpful! I really appreciate your input!


I started out with the grain mix in 2006 when I started with goats. Then over the next couple/few years I switched to different grains but nothing ever worked so I went back to feeding the same mix I did and I just make changes with the mix when needed.

When I was feeding alfalfa hay I had the protein of the grain at about 16%. Can't remember what the fat was. When I switched to grass hay I kept the same mix the first year or two but this year the quality had gone down. We had way too much rain the past spring/early summer. I bumped up the protein % also bumped up the fat (went with the elevator owner's thoughts on that. I wanted to increase the fat and that would have been a lot of the gold kote which would have been expensive. SO he suggested the soybean oil.) I also increased the beet pulp to.

I get 730lbs mixed at the time. I use the same mix for all of my goats. Doesnt matter if its bucks, open does, bred does, milking does, or kids.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

fcdairygoats said:


> I use the same mix for all of my goats. Doesnt matter if its bucks, open does, bred does, milking does, or kids.


Interesting...do you mind sharing your recipe?


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

NWIndianaBoers said:


> Depending on how many goats you have and how much you go through a good option for mixing and storing is an old chest freezer. I have an old one that holds about 700lbs of grain when mixed and keeps it in a sealed container.
> 
> I feed a complete pellet mixed with a different brands sweet feed at about 1:3 ratio. My pellet I get delivered into a bulk bin and bring it in by the bag. Fill the bag up so they hold about 75 lbs then dump that in and mix with a half bag of the sweet feed so 100lbs gets mixed at a time. Then repeat until full. Really easy that way. It lasts me less than a week so quite used to the routine haha but assuming you have a lot less animals I'm sure a set up like that would last many farms a month or longer.


I had a friend once who used a chest freezer for her horse feed. You're right...worked great! I'm keeping my eye peeled for one. Till then...galvanized cans seem to be working pretty well. I only have 6 goats right now. I think I'm going to re-work the feed room and switch to a can that will hold 50# for my mix. Or...I have a really nice plywood box that a builder friend gave me. It was what some new kitchen cabinet doors came in. I wonder if I could line it with something (like maybe formica or linoleum tile or...) an then hinge the lid, if that would work for my mix? Hmmm.... Where there's a will, there's a way!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

top_goat said:


> Yup...I've been feeding this mix for a little over a year -- it's not too different from yours except where you have whey and peas,


Mine do get alfalfa pellets, just free choice as part of their forage portion. 
The mix I use is almost completely GMO free... The Animax does contain a small amount of beet pulp and corn. The peas take the place of your soy but also are a better PH for goats to help prevent Ketosis. 
All of my goats get this mix as needed. It is 14% protein and 5% fat...


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

My current recipe is 14% protein, <8% fat, <15% fiber and TDN 83.78%. 

If I tweak it slightly (removing the beet pulp, boosting the alfalfa) I can get it to 16% protein, <8% fat, 12% fiber and TDN 82.59% (just over 1% difference). 

So the biggest difference would be a higher protein supplied by extra alfalfa. The fiber differential would likely be negligible (I think) with forage and hay (we live in the woods, so they have lots of forage unless the weather's awful).

What do ya'll think? I've read such mixed opinions on protein, so that's a confusion for me. Thanks for all the input...I so appreciate it!


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