# What wormer to use?? and doe going down.. :(



## coltrule (Mar 24, 2011)

My goat herd has been down hill some  Well I think they got worms and such from a doe i bought. But anyway..My doe (she is my very 1st goat i ever got  )She has been looking a little skinny..which i find wierd becuase she is usally fat. Her coat looks bad..and all of this i thought led to worms..so I wormed the herd (including her) but i don't think its got any better at all (i used Ivermenten horse wormer) the vet said to use it) But this morning when i was milking her i noticed she has the scours  and she looks even woarse. She has been eating some grain but the past few days she has not ate AS MUCH. But i'm giving her a lot too LOL. the goat herd has there own pen with a couple barns..milk stand and what not..then there is a gate you can open that leads out to the BIG field..where there is brush..grass and what not. They can go out there 24/7. She has been walking running around playing..fighting and what not just fine. She just looks bad. I'm thinking its between 2 things..major worms...or maybe cocci. i'm leaning towars the worms tho. But the pen next to them (they can touch noses) is the baby goat pen. or more like my weanlings. I bought a buckling a while ago and he had cocci (the owner did not tell me that) But i think he is over with it and everything like i said they can't touch each other but can see eachother but they can stand right up to eachother (we got pallets across the fence) So I'm gonna get some womer today..But I'm not sure what kind i should get? What do you all use? Thanks!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

First I would get a fecal done on her - treating her for worms or coccidia could do but unless you know the kind of worms you could be worming in vain 

did you do a follow up dose of ivermectin 7-10 days after the first? 

she could have also eaten something out in the browse pen that upset her system.

Is she drinking? if not then you need to give her some electrolytes


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm having issues right now with my herd too. I'm actually waiting to hear back from the vet to determine the best course of action - my does have a mixture of coccidia and strongiles. Some have both and some have one or the other. Luckily, none are _that_ bad, so no one is in dire straights right now but it's something we're going to fix before breeding season. 
A few of my does also have that craptastic coat on them that I'm trying to get better.

The 2 does that have coccidia & the strongiles both had scours and the others who didn't scour just had the worms.

I'll let you know what course of action I'm going to take once I hear from the vet - maybe that'll give you a starting place. You did mention that they were on pasture - that could also be where the coccidia is coming from.

In the mean time, you could add some BOSS to their grain and give them B12 to stimulate their appetites.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Like Stacey said Get a fecal done. 
When you did the Ivermectin what dose did you use? It needs to be dosed different than for horses.


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## coltrule (Mar 24, 2011)

We dosed her just right. I can't remember the dosage. lol But are friend (who raises goats) made a chart out and figured it all out. And i've done research on it. We do it different for the doseage for the horses lol. So is Iverment okay to use then? no i did not do that so i'll worm them again today. To be honest are Vet does not no nothing about goats :sigh: And they charge A TON to take an animal up there. And they don't do much with them. I'd like to here about that also on what your vet says . THANKS! I was giving them sunflowers in the there food to help with the coat. But i ran out..i need to get some more.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

you can take the stool sample to any vet and say "run for cocci and worms" 99% of vets these days send it off to a lab anyway so its not like they have to even do the work! drives me nuts. Anyway a dog or cat vet can do this for you


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

I only use the ivomec injectible that's for cattle, so I can't say much about the horse paste. I do know that other goat people use the paste, so it must be OK to use.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

IF she does have worms then doing a dose now depending on how long ago the first was given would actually be starting over. The parasite lifecycle is what you are trying to work with to effectively kill them off. IF there are worms then you need to do at least 2 treatments or 3 each 7 to 10 days apart. 

It is best to have fecal checked since Ivermect will only kill some worms and not others and not cocci.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

freedomstarfarm is correct - good info


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We have had the strongyles issue. We gave all our does ivermectin injectible - orally and followed up on it. But they were still looking very thin. 
So....I had a fecal done and that's when we found out they had strongyles. So the Ivermectin didn't treat it.
We couldn't find a small bottle of cydectin locally <the only bottle i could find was $250>, so we used Quest horse paste and redosed 10 days later. They seem to look better, but they all have twins on them so it's hard to say...
The only one that hasn't had Quest is the doe who kidded 2 weeks ago - she was given Equimax horse paste <we also gave all the kids Equimax>, so today I am giving her a dose of Quest, and then next week I'll dose her again. She is skin and bones under that massively thick coat.

Are your does shedding? Mine are shedding and look ragged! I can't wait til they are done shedding!


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## coltrule (Mar 24, 2011)

Okay! Thank you ALL SOOOO MUCH. I wormed her last week so i'd be right on time  I'm gonna get some Qest or Equimax today and try that. I had no idea Ivermetion did not cover all worms like cocci. I'm gonna worm my boy with it to that had cocci. They are all shedding but she just looks bad rough. You have no idea how much help you guys our!!!! Is the dosing the same as the ivermetion for goats? Again Thanks!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

cocci isnt a worm its a different kind of parasite - you need to get albon, sulmet, dimethox or corid to treat coccidia


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## coltrule (Mar 24, 2011)

In one of my goat books it said cocci was a kind of worm. lol..Well so much for that goat book LOL. Okay my mom found Anthelcide horse wormer . It says it treats Stronglyus..Is it okay to use?


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

Here's the worming schedule my vet just put my goats on - they all have some amount of coccidia and/or strongiles:

First - treat for the worms (strongiles). Take their hay away for 12 hours.

Dose with Safeguard/Panacure (as long as it's the liquid 100mg/1ml) at a rate of 5cc/100#. Put out enough hay just to get soemthing in their stomach. Take their hay away in an hour or two and fast again for 12 hours.

Dose again with Safeguard/Panacure. Put hay back.

The next day treat everyone with DiMethox. I have the 12.5% so with that I am to give everyone 1cc/5# for 10 days straight.

I don't need to retreat anyone - when I'm done with the treatments I need to bring some samples back in and we'll go from there.

Everyone is going to hate me!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

> First - treat for the worms (strongiles). Take their hay away for 12 hours.


 Strongiles are 1 type of worm. There are many types and some like Barberpole are not effected by Safeguard/Panacure.

Please get a fecal sample done to really know what to treat. Here is some info from Penn State http://bedford.extension.psu.edu/agriculture/goat/Goat Parasites.htm

You said that you did the first treatment 1 week ago. I would do the follow up with the same wormer used. That way you are sure to eliminate the worms you started killing.

They have a life cycle that the wormers only kill them during part of their life and that is why pretreatment is necessary. If you don't retreat then all the worms that were in a egg state when the animal was 1st wormed will then hatch and live after the wormer is out of the system. There is a ton of information out there to confirm this. If you do one treatment you will lessen the number of the worm but not always kill enough.

Also like Stacey said the coccidia is not effected by the wormers.

Hope that all made sense. Please let us know if you have more questions about it.


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

freedomstarfarm said:


> > First - treat for the worms (strongiles). Take their hay away for 12 hours.
> 
> 
> Strongiles are 1 type of worm. There are many types and some like Barberpole are not effected by Safeguard/Panacure.


Correct, which is why I put strongyles in parenthases. I wanted the OP to know what kind of worms I am treating. In the event the goat(s) have the same as mine it'll give the OP a starting place.

I also found this article, which I thought had some good information:

http://bedford.extension.psu.edu/agricu ... asites.htm


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Ah Ha. I misunderstood. Yep that is the same link I posted it does have great info from Penn State. :wink:


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## glenolam (Jul 20, 2010)

And here I'm not even paying attention to the link you posted....DUH. I read Penn State but figured mine said Bedford...no clue they're actually the same thing!


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## coltrule (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks guys!!!!!! for all the information. I'm gonna put it all to good use hehe


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Everyone here has good advice

I am actually dealing with/been deworming for a doe that had a heavy worm load and that was anemic when I purchased her. 

I am a practice manager for a veterinary clinic and there are some very importaint things that MUST go along with de-worming--here is the scoop:

First of all deworming is a process--NOT a one time deal. If you can imagine all the eggs adult worms lay (just in one day alone!) you MUST deworm in the 3 doses, every 10 days IF and only IF you know you have a high worm load. Otherwise "maintenance" herd deworming is fine to be done 1 dose every 6 months or so. But with a heavily affected goat you must do the "process". 

You wont be compormising the goats resistance to worms IF you know there is a high worm load and IF you know what you are deworming for! Let me just give you an example--my doe had a HIGH load of barberpole and once we got this clear we found an high load of strongyloides. So this means we have had to deworm with 2 different types of deworming medicines for the 3 dose/10 days apart process. I have been "de-worming" this doe now since march! But she is not anemic any more and she looks awesome!

That being said--you are compromising your goat AND your $$ if you are not sure what you are deworming for! Any good small animal veterinarian can identify goat worm eggs on a fecal. Take some poo from your doe to a vet-drop it off and ask that they call you with the results. You can google to find out what medicines to use for the specific worms. 

For example the barperpole worms my doe had needed to be treated with fenbendazole--found in panacur. The strongyloides needed to be killed with oxibendazole found in the de-wormer anthelcide. 

Also you can google to be sure the de-wormers you are using are safe for goats intended for meant consumption and also for does that may be pregnant. 

If you do fecals and de-worm with the process you will be able to fix your goat if she is badly pulled down by worms.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

here is a link to an EXCELLENT goat de-worming chart:

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/wormtables.shtml

It is the one I use and it has ALL of the info you will need :wink:


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am going to say something that might offend you and I do not intend to, but if you do not get a fecal float on this doe, you just might lose her no matter what you give her.

You have to know what you are treating, not all dewormers are the same, and they will NOT work the same. Also if you just chose one and it is the wrong one, all you are doing is making the worms resistant to the dewormer.

People OVER DOSE their goat and that is one reason there is such a worm problem. ONLY deworm them because a fecal float said to NOT becasue the calender said to. I have not dewormed my herd in like 8 years. I did a couple last year because of the fecal float, but not all needed it. But that said I do not live in a place where there is a problem either. 

If this doe has Cocci, and is not treated with the right meds, she is going to die, plain and simple. No dewormer will take care of it.


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