# Help with goat's hoof



## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

Hi, I have a female goat (part or all Nigerian dwarf - not sure, as she was a rescue) who is having a problem with one of her hooves. I was trimming them regularly with no issues until December, when she started limping. Although it had only been about 5 weeks since her previous trim, the heel of (just) one of the hooves had way over grown during that period. She also had some cracking along the outside edge of the hoof. Since then, I have been trimming the hoof regularly (like every 3-4 weeks), but the heel keeps overgrowing and she is limping. It is only this hoof.

Even when the hoof looks to be trimmed OK, when she stands on it, it splays out. I can't really see what is causing the splaying. The cracking is still apparent (see photo), but it doesn't look to me like it should be causing the splaying. I just gave her a copper bolus and have been putting horse hoof sealant (like nail polish) on it to try to strengthen the hoof, but I imagine it will be some time before that helps.

I don't know what else to do at this point. She is getting really hard to handle since she is sore and knows what is coming when we try to handle her. I don't have a milk stand, so my husband just tries to hold her, but she is close to 100 lbs of angry. I am posting some pictures so you can see what I'm dealing with. They are not great, since she's not cooperative, but they show the cracking and splaying. 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It's not the heel. The outside cleft toe is too long causing the foot be off balance. I would let the heel heal up and work on getting the toe on that side more even with the other toe.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Are you reaching pink in the frog/sole when you trim? And have you taken a good look up in between the toes to make sure there is no moisture or red looking infected areas of skin? It doesn't look like she should be so sensitive about it! I agree with GoatHiker, the whole toe looks too long. On the left front foot that is on the ground in the photo also, the hooves just look really long! I know it's not from lack of trimming as you have been doing it frequently! Just wondering how aggressive you are each time...


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

So, could that make the heel grow over like it's been doing (relative to the other hooves)? The heel has been trimmed already in this photo, but before I trimmed it it was quite overgrown.


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

I am not super experienced with goat hoof trimming (obviously). so I'm not sure how pink you mean...her heel is white and there may have been a very slight pink tinge to it when cut but not much. I trimmed the sides too, it didn't look like there was much more I could trim there. The cracks that you see in the photo are above the foot pad and can't be trimmed away at this point (maybe that's why it hurts?). I may have to try to get some better photos...she is just so hard to handle. When I trim the sides (and front) I try to make them just about even with the foot pad.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes try to show us some photos of the bottom of the foot when you have it flipped back/up for trimming. You have to trim the sole/frog of the whole foot, not just the hoof walls.

To save your husband's back you may want to try tying her head to a fence, slightly elevated to reduce wiggling.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Here is the best I could help on the phone. The top line is the hair line or coronary band. The bottom line is your cutting goal. You won't be able to reach the cutting goal because the hoof would bleed but that is the line you should cut towards.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

In the one picture it almost looks like you have some hoof rot in there. We have a ram that had something looked like that and we trimmed it well - used a copper sulfate thick cream that I get from Premier. It sticks good. Bandaged the foot over the creamed spot and wrapped it in that strechy tape and then as a final = a wrap around the bottom with duct tape for water proofing. This will hold the cream on the foot for a day or two - and protect it. It was our vet that showed us to do this first. Keeps the foot clean and the med in place. A few times of that and he is down to a zinc dip every few days and trimming as needed. His foot was bad enough to use Excede for three shots - one every four day. Really help heal. If you do this make sure you put the wrap up high enough on the foot to stay put.
Also before we put the cream we washed his foot well - used chlorahexadine to clean it up. Don't want to bandage in dirt. Good luck. Hope you don't have to do this but if there is rot - it will clear it up.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Ok two things.

I'm seeing that side of the hoof that is cracked is a lot longer than the other half of the same foot. Would suggest to me you can probably (carefully) trim that half further. It needs to be even and level with the other side so her weight is distributed. The more you can get off of the bad hoof the better. If there is separation (Hoof wall coming away from the frog, leaving a black channel of dirt in between), which I think I can see some of in the toe, cut it back and clean it out.

Use a little pick, little stick, pointy piece of tin, I've used a tiny crochet hook for very small holes, but you have to be sure her hoof is Firmly Held! It may be sore up in there, you want to be careful she doesn't feel it, but if she hurts and kicks, well frankly I don't complain if my own carelessness winds up sticking *me* with a sharp object, but I 
do if it sticks the goat ...

Typically I pack separation back full of copper sulphate, ground fine and mixed with grease to hold it.

My first thought on looking at the hoof pic was I'd try a copper bath. Dissolve copper sulphate in water, put it in a can, put her hoof in it, and try and keep it there for ten minutes. Repeat daily.

Problem is it may sting like the dickens ... in this case I do the same trip, either grease pack or soak or both, with borax instead, which works almost as well but doesn't hurt. Use until the hoof is no longer sore: then start changing to copper to finish it off for good.

If it is not bacterial, that may not help. But it won't hurt ... and it looks suspiciously bacterial to me, particularly with her limping.

In horses much this same thing can be caused by uneven trimming, and once the hoof comes under stress, bacteria can get in as well. So it could be both problems in one package.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

There is a product called "Sore No More" that I use on my pack boys. It contains everything to control hoof rot, herbs for conditioning, and a pain killer all in one.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Barnes19 said:


> Ok two things.
> 
> I'm seeing that side of the hoof that is cracked is a lot longer than the other half of the same foot. Would suggest to me you can probably (carefully) trim that half further. It needs to be even and level with the other side so her weight is distributed. The more you can get off of the bad hoof the better. If there is separation (Hoof wall coming away from the frog, leaving a black channel of dirt in between), which I think I can see some of in the toe, cut it back and clean it out.


 I agree, it is longer there.

Also trim the excess inner hoof wall, look at the diagram left bottom pic, being overgrown causes spreading apart as well if that needs trimmed. Wish we has pics of the underneath area.


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks for all the great input!

I think I need to get a better look at the hoof and take some better pictures to know how to proceed. 

Honestly I would not be surprised if she has hoof rot, the weather has been really icky this winter and we have had some flooded pastures. Will see how it looks upon closer inspection. Is there an oral or injectible treatment for it? It's going to be a nightmare dealing with her if I have to handle her feet that often, lol. BTW I have tried hitching her up to a fence and she thrashed around so much that I was afraid she was going to hang herself.

One question - I've been trimming the hoof walls and toes all the way to the sole, and cutting the heel so that it doesn't protrude beyond the sole. But do you also cut the whole sole? I don't think I can get the hoof walls any shorter unless I do...so maybe that's why her hooves are too long?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes, I always trim the sole down until I begin seeing pink. Naturally they would wear the sole down on rough rocks etc. but when we have them on soft pastures and bedding it just grows and grows. Some goats seem to just need the walls trimmed but for most/all of my herd, we have to trim some sole to get them back to the right shape. 

In your goats case, I think she needs it and you won't be able to get rid of the unhealthy hoof wall without trimming the sole. Just take thin layers off at a time until you see a pinkish tinge.

Also, if she is a total beast about being restrained you may consider training her to a stand with food in front of her (alfalfa pellets maybe?) or you might consider hiring someone to get it done and over with quickly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Pics would definitely help, to see the underneath side.

Always a little at a time, see pink, stop. Any pockets trim them away and scrub the hoof with iodine, use a tooth brush to get out as much yuck as you can. If it is hoof rot ect. Trim what her hoof will allow, keep at it every 3 weeks or so, so the blood flow can recede for the next trimming.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yes you do trim the whole sole, I use a sharp curved knife thats so thin its almost like an old razor (actually I think its a carpet knife), and you leval the hoof, taking wafer thin slices off, and keep going until you see the pinkishness, which is the live internal hoof showing through the semi transparent 'frog' (sole) of the hoof.

Your aim is to slice off to a completely flat bearing surface. If you find any holes (I can see a big one I think), cut them out as best you can, pick it out clean, and repack with something good (I like the sound of Goathiker's "Sore No More").


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks again for the help! I wish I had had a chance to see these recent posts before I went out and trimmed her again, but I didn't. In any case, I think I understand what to do now - I need to shave the soles some.

However, since I did trim her again and take a bunch of pictures, I am posting them now. Once my husband really had a good hold on her she was OK (although trembling the whole time, poor thing). 

So - a bit of clarification about the photos:

The first picture shows one of her hooves (not the really bad one) that I just finished trimming one toe of. You can see there is a lot of black, which I tried to pick out with a tool, but couldn't get anything. It's not really gunk as much as disintegrating hoof material. I also am including this photo because it shows how much her hoof has grown in the 4 days since I last trimmed them. This seems abnormal to me - and one reason I can't keep up with the hoof growth, even though I've been trimming regularly. Any thoughts about why this could be?

The second photo shows the side of the same hoof, where she also has cracks and a disintegrating hoof wall. Is this hoof rot?

The third photo shows the finished trim. So I guess I should go back and try to shave off more of the sole? Although the heel looks a little long, I was using a shears and there really wasn't anything to "grab" with them - I guess I need to use a knife as was suggested earlier?

The fourth photo is the "bad" hoof - the one that is splayed out - after I trimmed it. An odd thing about this hoof is that the walls are so thick (you can see by the width of the white trimmed area). Any idea why this would be occurring?

The last photo is the same hoof as the first photo - I was trying to get a better picture of the black area on the hoof. The hoof is blue because of the hoof rot treatment I had just put on it. I didn't pack the hooves, but am keeping her inside for now and will get to the feed store for some stuff to pack and wrap them over the weekend.

So, my basic questions (in addition to the ones asked above) are: 
1. does this look like hoof rot?
2. If so, does it look bad enough to warrant a call to the vet and /or oral or injected antibiotics? Or do you think topical treatment suffice? I think we can wrassle her well enough, at least if it's only every couple of days, for a week or two, to work on her feet.
3. why would her hooves be growing so fast - is this something that needs treatment?
4. Is there anything I need to do differently in trimming besides cutting back the sole more (and of course then trimming more of the hoof walls)?

Thanks again for your help!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

It looks like hoof wall separation which can easily turn in to hoof rot. If there was hoof rot infection you would smell it right away when you picked up her foot! 

Do you have her on a very high protein diet (lots of grain)? I don't think her hoof growth seems crazy but you are the one there!

I know you said that you trimmed before reading the comments so as you know now, there is a lot more to be taken off those hooves. Once you get the walls down more (you can kinda angle the trimmers to cut them further) then you will have "something to grab" be able to get the sole down further. I haven't ever used a knife on them personally but some people also like to use a Carpenter's Plane which is like $15 at home depot. Not to sound horrific, but it is kinda like a cheese grater for the sole. 

I do recommend you take a permanent marker out with you and draw a line right on the hoof parallel to the coronary band to give yourself a visual guide for trimming. Just like the photo I posted earlier. I find it very useful.


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks for the tips! Actually it did smell, but it was mild enough that I didn't notice until after we were done with her...it also had a different odor than the horses hooves do when I pick them, if that means anything?

She only eats maybe 1 cup of grain a day. She does eat the forage we give our horses, which right now consists of about 60% timothy and 40% alfalfa. She sneaks the horses' grain when she can get it, but we can usually keep her away from it.

Next time I trim her hooves, I will shave the soles.


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## Hannah21 (Jun 17, 2014)

Looks like hoof rot?I would also copper bolus if you haven't


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## mfvoler (Oct 8, 2013)

Yes, I just gave her a copper bolus 4 days ago. When do you think I should give her another?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Trim a little off the inner hoof wall, look at the diagram left bottom pic, I displayed.

You want the bottom surface to be flat, not uneven.

She does have foot rot, I would treat with iodine and if there are any poskets that can be removed, remove that.Scrub with a toothbrush all over the hoof and in any pocketed area's.

Don't get too close to the coronary band. Draw a straight line across her hoof in conjunction with her coronary band, if you see a very young goat kid, that is basically what you shoot for. Look at the diagram above.

It looks like the toe should be trimmed a little bit and the heal, make a flat surface, go slow and only take off a little bit at a time, until you see pink. Keep at it every so often and eventually she will be trimmed properly.


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## Hannah21 (Jun 17, 2014)

I would re bolus her in 2 months


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