# Keep him or replace him in the spring? New pics



## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

While I love my little psycho racehorse of a buck, he's not growing up the way anyone was exoecting, including his breeder. He looks ok enough, but has zero muscle development. He's got enough bone for my taste, and a good sized (cute) head with a nice hornset, but the rest, I don't know. Should I keep him through next breeding season, or just sell him and his kids at auction this spring? His last weigh in was a few days after he came home, and he weighed only 65lb. Not all that great for a 7 month old on pasture and sweet feed (he's 8 months old now). It's a shame, too, his sire is a monster of a buck whose very low maintenance, which so far Attitude seems to have inherited.

I apologize in advance for the honkin' huge photos.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

When or have you ever wormed him? He may not be gaining because of worms or cocci....can you get a fecal?

You are right... he is way behind on growth and condition..... he is a cutie though :hug:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

He's never had any kind of meds save for pinkeye and cd/t vaccines several months ago. His eyes and gums are a good color, though, with normal berries. He may have a copper deficiency, nothing about the hair on his back legs seem right, but I'm out of boluses and have no idea when I can get more. I could get a fecal done after the 3rd, but if it is a parasite problem, would it be best to hit him with sulmet and ivermectin rather than waiting?

I've been trying to avoid handling him at all since it's a huge living adjustment for him, but it's entirely possible it was too stressful anyways. He's not skinny by any means; I can barely feel his ribs. He just has no muscle mass. Maybe he runs flat-out too much?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

If he were mine I'd either get the fecal or if the budget is tight, I'd worm him with Equimax or Quest Plus horse paste - Equimax is 3x <100lb goat treated as 300lb horse>, or Quest 2x <100lb goat treated as 200lb horse>. I'd do a repeat dosage in 10 days and see if you see any improvement.

Is he eating loose minerals for goats? 
How much feed is he getting and what kind of hay?

Is he fullblooded? Did you see his mama? 
Single? Twin? triplet?

I agree he's definitely really cute and I think he has potential if you can figure out what is stunting him.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

It is good his gums are good color...I would get that fecal in case though....and wait for the results seeings how he is eating and has good gums... If he has never been wormed...and has has a stressful time both worms and cocci come to mind.... It is better to know what or if he needs treatment instead of jumping to the meds and unnecessary treating him if he doesn't ... Cocci doesn't always show scouring but does stunt growth.. 
But yet ...you see him and it is your decision whether or not you want to start treatment right away.... by all means.. if you feel his life is in jeopardy...treat him.... if not...... he can wait....use your best judgment..

Copper deficiency is possible... does he have access to free choice loose salt an minerals?

Also... he may have lice...

I would work with him.. to make him calm and trusting you....he won't get stressed every time you approach him ...to give him his CD&T shot trimmings ect....


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

All I have left in the wormer department is apple flavored 1.87% ivermectin paste and a single dose of ivomec plus. My saanen doe cleared me out before she left, but I plan on picking up something.on the 3rd.

He's currently on free choice alfalfa hay and free choice 20% ranga and breeder giant freaking pellets (they don't eat much, so the tub is always full) and a free choice horse mineral with a good amount of copper and selenium.

He is a simgle, his sire is fullblood, but I'm not sure about his dam. I only got a glimpse of 80 old type does wandering by followed by his sire. I believe he's a single, but I could be wrong.

I think he can handle waiting until I can get the fecal done, since he acts like his normal self, but if he starts going downhill I'll probably start him on both treatments. The biggest problem with trying to tame him has been his absolute terror from being caught. Just for these pictures he was sneezing and shaking a bit, and no amount of raisins or pellets was changing his mind.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

When was he wormed last? He looks like needs it. JMHO


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

*Re: Keep him or replace him in the spring?*

He's never been wormed. Neither have his parents or siblings.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I caught him again. So much easier! He rarely snorted and stood like an angel to be clipped. I took the opportunity to weigh him as well, he hit 84lb (using the formula without adding 10lb).

I gave him this ridiculous haircut so you can get a better idea of his conditioning. Like i said, he's not really skinny, but he has no muscle build.
I also rechecked his eyes and they were a bit pale, so i gave him a dose of the ivermectin paste. Leave it to him to actually like it...


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

He's a little on the thin side for my taste. Then again, your raising for different purposes than I am. I'd hit him with dewormer again in 7-10 days to make sure you get them all. 

If your looking to add muscle mass then I would add some protien to his diet. Hope he starts putting on muscle for you


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> He's a little on the thin side for my taste. Then again, your raising for different purposes than I am. I'd hit him with dewormer again in 7-10 days to make sure you get them all.
> 
> If your looking to add muscle mass then I would add some protien to his diet. Hope he starts putting on muscle for you


I agree.... :thumb:

With the ivermectin horse paste... triple the dosage for your goat...or you will be under dosing him... then ..again 10 days later....to get the hatching eggs...

I really recommend the fecal still... to check for worms or cocci....

If he has pale gums... he may need a iron supplement as well....

Horse loose salts are so different than the one for goats.....make sure he is getting enough of what he needs...

All goats are suseptable(sp) to worms and cocci..... could be why he is stunted...


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

He's getting a fecal done on the 3rd, he'll be in between his 2nd and 3rd dose by then, and I can change it based on what my vet says.

The minerals I'm using were recommended by my friend (the one who bred my saanens). They have more copper and selenium than the old mineral i was using. I'll have to recheck the iron, though. The calcium/phosphorous is balanced 2:1.

I can't really afford to add a higher protein feed to what i have. The 20% feed is the same price as the hay, and my budget is fairly limited. I could probably add a protein tub or canola oil to his feed, but I can't afford to buy one bag of calf manna over 3 bags of the 20% feed, and the mill doesn't carry a higher percentage.

I'll get him checked over completely by the vet when I get his fecal done. Right now he's still eating and drinking well with tons of energy, and he's gained 20lb in the last month, so as long as he keeps it up, I'll get him checked out and try to get him on the right track.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm no pro, but seems to me if your feeding a 20% feed, he should be getting some fat/muscle to him. 
Hopefully it's a worm issue and the wormer takes care of it. 
Can you get anything like animax? I think it's a bit cheaper, here I can buy it by the pound at one of the feed stores.
I've used it for the 4-H does, I didn't see a huge difference, but it did help add some weight to a couple of them that we bought who were really thin when we brought them home.

What about beet pulp? Would that help? I like using it, a little bit goes a long way. I plan on starting our does/kids on it around kidding time at the beginning of the year, unless we have a hard winter/early winter like many are predicting then I'll start them on it sooner.

Is he getting the full ration that the directions on the bag say to give? Are you feeding him with other goats? Is he a fast eater or slow eater? IMO, if your feeding him with another goat, I'd probably get him used to being caught and feed him seperately so you can monitor how much he is getting. You may think he is getting his part, but if he is eating with another goat, you could be really surprised..
We have a small herd so I monitor what they get. We are also on a tight budget right now as we have a big project coming up we need to do, and so we're sticking to the feed budget we put in place. Since it's breeding time our buck is out with the does but we feed him seperately. Our youngest adult doe/slowest eater gets into the stall where their feeder is at, she gets most of her feed alone. When she's done I pour more feed and let her mama and her little brother in. When they are mostly done, I let in our herd queen and pour more food. Our herd queen is an extremely fast eater, I have to feed this way because 1 of her bites is like 3 of the other goats bites.
Anyway, just a thought


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

The pellets are 3/8", i feed everyone together, practically free choice at this point. They don't like the larger size unless i've just put out fresh pellets. I've been trying to add things like drizzled molasses, but he's eating about a half pound a day. I'm going to try breaking them up and seeing if that helps, but he doesn't really have competition for food. Addy leaves him be and widow is scared of him.

I can try the beet pulp, but it's $17 per bag here. I may try mixing in the old sheep/goat feed i was using before, it's 18%, but it's also medicated.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Update! He's gained a few more pounds, has a few more definition lines, his eyes are a deeeep pink, and he's calmed down enough about being caught and handled that he came within a foot to check out the new feed. I've started feeding him and Widow an 18% sheep/goat feed, and mixing it with the larger cattle pellets to force them to eat more overall. He still looks like a dairy goat muscle-wise, but I absolutely LOVE his cinformation. Long smooth back, good bone, and while it's not that important, he is a fast little guy. No problems with his movement at all.


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