# Decisions, decisions!



## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

For a while now I've been wanting to step back (we used to have two Myotonics) into meat goats a little. My dairy goats have been pretty needy lately, and I would like to get 1-2, maybe 3, hardier, more meaty does.
Ideally, I'd like to have two Kikos and a Boer, but I don't know if that will ever happen. High quality, but not incredibly expensive meat goats are SO hard to find in my area!

I found someone who is just 3 hours away from us, in MS. They raise 100% New Zealand, purebred and percentage Kikos, and they test for Johnes and CAE! And I think their goats are mostly on grass/forage, with little or no grain.

Out of seven 100% NZ & purebred Kiko doe/kid pairs, I've narrowed it down to two. I'm not sure if we will end up getting either of them, but I am hoping to. :cooldude: 
Based on the following, which one would you be more inclined to choose? And what questions should I ask the breeder? She is going to send me a picture of the testing paperwork soon.

CoCo, FF: Almost 2 year old 88% percent registered Kiko doe. Has a purebred doeling at her side, DOB 01/13/18. Breeder says she is a bigger doe than Dot and she had a much larger kid than other does normally have.








Dot, FF: Almost 2 year old 100% New Zealand Kiko doe. She is a smaller doe than CoCo, and has a doeling at her side that was born 01/08/18. The only downside is that Dot would be almost twice as much money as CoCo. In one picture it looks like she has a swayback, but in the other one she looks good. What do you think?

















The doelings were sired by either of these two bucks:
http://www.doubleccfarm.com/herdsires.htm


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I like Dot better. Could you get a better picture of her kid?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Yeah, I am leaning towards Dot as well, but if she's only slightly better than CoCo I want to go with CoCo because her and her doeling priced at almost half of what Dot and her kid are! 
I will ask for better pictures of both of their kids, and also of them. I think the black kid behind CoCo is hers.


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## Kath G. (Jul 13, 2017)

A singular picture is soooo hard to tell from!


Goat_Scout said:


> I found someone who is just 3 hours away from us


Love it! I've done my share of travelling too, and just kinda count on it at this point 

Questions... things I'd ask about:
-teats (number, structure, etc. I don't know specifics but I know meat breeds have wholly different standards as to what's acceptable, vs dairy)
-kidding issues & history
-settling issues
-health issues
-idk about their worming program; I'd ask about it & if they've required chemical worming, etc.
-hooves

Let me ask, what's your long term breeding plan with these? Do you have access to or are you going to purchase a purebred Kiko buck, to continue breeding up? Or are you planning on using something else? It would probably make a difference to me in terms of what I was willing to invest.
They both look great! I'm kinda green!!


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Both. What's one more??



They're both nice looking but I'm not familiar with Kikko's at all. 

Going with what @Kath G. said; is Dot a fullblood (is that a thing with Kikko's?) Depending on what your wanting to end up doing with them, that would influence my decision.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Lstein said:


> Both. What's one more


Try telling my Mom that, ROFL! 

Anyway. I don't know if fullblood is a thing with Kikos, but she's 100%, and please excuse my ignorance, but is that not the same thing, at least with Boers?
I was originally looking for just a 100% New Zealand doe - not a purebred/percentage - but they are so expensive! I have the money, but I'm just hesitant to use it.  
I guess I've kind of inherited my Dad's frugality...  But is it even possible to be frugal when you own goats? 

@Kath G. - Thanks for the list of questions!
And yes, no matter which doe I get, I'll try to buy a 100% New Zealand buck/buckling later on to breed them to. So far I've found quite a few nice bucks that are within 5 hours of us, but I won't really need one until this fall, so I've passed them all up. I now know of multiple breeders I can contact when the time comes though. 

These would be kind of a starter herd, and would "introduce" me into the meat goat world. My Myotonics were just pets, essentially. I absolutely loved them, but want a larger breed.

Some of my herd goals are:

1. Hardiness! Especially towards parasites.
2. I want most of my goats to do well on just grass/forage. But that is kind of in the same group as "hardiness", right?
3. Nice, high and well attached udders, regardless of the breed. And for the dairy girls, of course I'd like a reasonable amount of milk. 
4. Good conformation (who doesn't?)
5. Good hooves, that don't need to be trimmed that often.

One thing I like about CoCo is that she's pretty large.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Also, one reason I’d like them is to maybe start getting a little money in from their kids. If they have bucklings, they’d definitely be worth more than most my dairy bucklings would be. And hopefully, I wouldn’t have to feed them grain or anything! That’s one reason why I’ve been looking into getting Kikos.


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## Lstein (Oct 2, 2014)

Goat_Scout said:


> Anyway. I don't know if fullblood is a thing with Kikos, but she's 100%, and please excuse my ignorance, but is that not the same thing, at least with Boers?


 Whoops I missed that part, yea I suppose it would lol.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I bet Coco would look pretty stellar if you pumped minerals into her for a few months.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

SalteyLove said:


> I bet Coco would look pretty stellar if you pumped minerals into her for a few months.


Yeah, her coat does look a bit rough...

I may have just sold 4 of our goats (two doe/buckling pairs) so it wouldn't hurt to replace them, riiiight?  I'm selling mine because they aren't registered, and aren't hardy one teensy bit - not because I'm trying to keep our goat numbers down...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> I bet Coco would look pretty stellar if you pumped minerals into her for a few months.


EXACTLY what I was thinking.

I don't see the New Zealand designation as being hardier, better mothers, faster growing. But they are always more expensive, unless they are substandard in some way.

I liked them both, more pictures would help. But I do like Coco.

@Calfee Farms has a very nice buck for sale, since you want hardy and not needy, I'd talk to him.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

There is another doe/kid pair (purebred Kiko) from this breeder that I like. The doe is very solid looking and seems to have a lot of length.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

She's pretty, so is her kid. Is the kid a doe or a buck?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Nice


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok just throwing this out there  I think you need to decide what your breeding goal is first. If you plan on having boers and kikos to breed together then % really doesn’t matter unless your planning on selling them down the road. I jus think that you would be buying a doe at a high price just to get a lower price, or would have some really expensive meat, for/out of the kids if they were crossed. I personally, again if you plan to cross with something else, would probably go with something less %. I have some does out there that are commercial and actually a very high percentage boer and I also have commercial and low % that can out perform every single high percentage I have. Just something to think on  
But these girls! First I’m not a kiko person lol I personally don’t like the first one most of all. It could be the picture but just going off the picture her top is far from straight. I think she looks thicker because it’s a more up close shot. Do all 3 of these does have singles on them? Either way I like the last one the best lol


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## intrepid-dreamer (Jan 2, 2017)

I like the last one best also. She appears to have the most level topline out of the 3, and definitely has the best brisket. She looks more solid, and the udder you can see in those pictures looks well formed. Her kid looks like the best fed and nicest of the bunch.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Fern (the last one pictured) is likewise almost 2 years old, and her kid is a doeling. 

Jessica, yes, all three of these does are FFs and had single kids. 
I want to have a couple purebred Kikos to breed, and just might get a high percentage Boer doeling to add to my herd - still thinking on that one. So just mainly Kikos.


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## minibarn (Jul 20, 2010)

I love the doeling with 3rd doe! I wouldn't want to choose based on those pics though....go see them in person and then decide which to choose.
As for registration...I'm under the impression that a 100% NZ Kiko can be traced right back to it's New Zealand origins. The Kiko breed was developed there in the 1980s and was first imported in US and Canada in 1990s. Purebred kikos in America may have been upbred from lower percentage kiko genetics.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Just skimmed the other posts (sorry folks!  )

Fullblod Kiko: not technically a thing, but either the AKGA or the IKGA has that classification.
There's actually only 100% New Zealand, Purebred and percentage Kikos. 

Questions to ask:
weight gain on kids
average daily gain
birth weights
weight gain of does and their current weight
how long did it take them to settle?
Do they need hoof trimming or deworming often?
kidding issues?
history of those things on both sires and dams

I like the two brown does better then the white doe. The 3rd is real nice. What is their asking prices? Or at least, what is the price differences between them?

What are your goals? Know what those are, and you'll be able to ask the questions you need answered in order to figure out what pair is best for you


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

> As for registration...I'm under the impression that a 100% NZ Kiko can be traced right back to it's New Zealand origins. The Kiko breed was developed there in the 1980s and was first imported in US and Canada in 1990s. Purebred kikos in America may have been upbred from lower percentage kiko genetics.


Yes, 100% NZ can be traced back to NZ origins, every single goat on the pedigree.
Purebreds have been bred up


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Thanks! Previously I asked her about CoCo's kid, and she said when she was born (Jan. 13th) she weighed about 8 pounds, and now she is 24 pounds. I'll ask her about the other kids.

She said that she doesn't have to trim hooves very often, depending on the goat - some hardly ever at all, some maybe once a year. She hasn't trimmed since August right now. 
She’s going to send me better pictures of everybody (the three does & their doelings) hopefully by the middle of this week. 

Dot pair is priced at $1,100; Fern pair $800; CoCo pair $600.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I would go with Fern or Coco if you're just starting out. Dot might be a bit expensive to start out with  But I'm biased toward colored goats that are good lookin'


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

The breeder sent me two more pictures of CoCo and her kid. I think they look much better in these (aside from needing minerals for her coat)!

She also just told me that she now has more Kikos available (squeeee!) and she'll send me pictures of them by tomorrow...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> What are your goals? Know what those are, and you'll be able to ask the questions you need answered in order to figure out what pair is best for you


To the excellent above point of view, I would add to ask why the breeder is culling these from the keeping herd. The reason they want to sell may be the reason you want to pass, OR!!!!! exactly the reason you want to buy, because their goals and your goals are different.



Jessica84 said:


> First I'm not a kiko person lol


I forgive you, my friend...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I like CoCo and Fern.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

CoCo's doeling (on uneven ground in this pic)


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

I thought to consider is raising Genemaster goats a cross of Kikos and Boers. They keep the hardiness of the Kiko goat, but you can go here: http://www.kikogoats.com/index.php/registration/genemaster/ for more info.
Personal if I were to crossbreed I would cross a Savanna and Kiko rather than a Boer and a Kiko


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

*A thought*


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

They are pretty does and kids. What kind of market would Kiko's bring in your area? Are you going to get your $$ worth out of the kids? What market are you aiming for? Just meat?
I really like kikos. I don't know much about them. We've had a kiko/cross doe in the past, she was actually an awesome doe, had good bone, and length, and was very hardy. She gave us like 17 kids from 7 kiddings - bred to registered Boer bucks, and those kids were really nice, and always our fastest growers.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

GF3 Boer Goats said:


> I thought to consider is raising Genemaster goats a cross of Kikos and Boers. They keep the hardiness of the Kiko goat, but you can go here: http://www.kikogoats.com/index.php/registration/genemaster/ for more info.
> Personal if I were to crossbreed I would cross a Savanna and Kiko rather than a Boer and a Kiko


I looked into Genemasters and love them! They are so thick and magnificent looking. 
I actually had the chance to get a beautiful Genemaster doeling + a nice Kiko doeling from Oregon - the breeder said she'd be coming our way in June or sometime in the fall. But that would kind of be a long wait and I'm ready for one now...  I haven't been able to find any other Genemasters around here.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

HoosierShadow said:


> They are pretty does and kids. What kind of market would Kiko's bring in your area? Are you going to get your $$ worth out of the kids? What market are you aiming for? Just meat?
> I really like kikos. I don't know much about them. We've had a kiko/cross doe in the past, she was actually an awesome doe, had good bone, and length, and was very hardy. She gave us like 17 kids from 7 kiddings - bred to registered Boer bucks, and those kids were really nice, and always our fastest growers.


Wow, it sounds like she was a great goat for y'all! That's a lot of kids.

Kikos are extremely rare here and (the ones that are around) seem to sell very quickly in my area. Especially the registered ones - so I am quite sure I'll have a market for any future kids, whether they are bucklings or doelings.

I'm planning on selling any great kids that "measure up" as future breeders, and any that don't will go for meat. And if I like the Kikos, I may try expanding my meat herd later on.

This breeder has sold all of her other available goats already, and she has a buyer for CoCo, too. She's giving me first choice on CoCo though, and I think I'm going to get her. What's more, my mom just gave me "the go ahead, do your thing" answer!   Hurrah!


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

Goat_Scout said:


> I looked into Genemasters and love them! They are so thick and magnificent looking.
> I actually had the chance to get a beautiful Genemaster doeling + a nice Kiko doeling from Oregon - the breeder said she'd be coming our way in June or sometime in the fall. But that would kind of be a long wait and I'm ready for one now...  I haven't been able to find any other Genemasters around here.


I really want to start breeding them from square 1 and attempt to get a herd of black dappled Genemasters here in Indiana, as every only really breeds Boers.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Bohannon Kentucky Kikos has this as one of their herdsires. Bardstown, KY

http://www.bohannonkentuckykikos.com/genemasterbillygoat.html

Black and dappled is very nice. But don't compromise on more important things.


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Bohannon Kentucky Kikos has this as one of their herdsires. Bardstown, KY
> 
> http://www.bohannonkentuckykikos.com/genemasterbillygoat.html
> 
> Black and dappled is very nice. But don't compromise on more important things.


Exactly we currently have a commercial black dappled buck that we plan on using this fall. Hopefully I can a hold of some NICE Kikos to start my Genemaster breeding program.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

If all goes well, we will be picking up CoCo and her kid on Saturday! I’m pretty excited.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Congrats I hope everything works out so you can pick them up on Saturday! Hopefully she and her kid will be everything you hope for as well.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Goat_Scout said:


> If all goes well, we will be picking up CoCo and her kid on Saturday! I'm pretty excited.


So did you end up getting her?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> So did you end up getting her?


Yes, we did!

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/new-additions-to-the-herd.196268/#post-2109772


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