# Trying to decide on goats or not...



## Milk Machine (Jul 18, 2021)

We have had dairy cows for about 10 years and at this point are well aware of most of the ups and downs, advantages and disadvantages, joys and sorrows. We are considering replacing our 2 cows with dairy goats. I am trying to do as much research as I can which can sometimes be more confusing and misleading than helpful (sometimes). So I would really appreciate some honest input from experienced goat owners and especially if members here have experience with both cows and goats. 
Some people make it sound like cows are hardier and don't have as many health problems. Other people say the same about goats. I assume it comes down more to the individual animal. We take very good care of our cows but we have had our fair share of health problems with them and I'm ok with that. I wonder if goats will be the same or if they have significantly less or more health problems. I know parasites are a bigger issue with goats. What are some other major challenges with goats? People who have or have had both, how do they compare to you?
With my cows, we have never lost a mature cow to an untimely death. We lost 1 calf in 10 years. Do goats just kind of die? In talking with some goat owners even when they are telling me the wonders of goats they always seem to add a death story that makes jt seem like death from disease is more common in goats. Maybe part of that is because most people I've spoken with have more goats at one time than I've had cows in 10 years but it does make me wonder how many kids is it normal to lose a year. I know with sheep you expect to lose a certain (small) % every year. What about adult does? Is it expected to lose a certain percentage of them each year or is it a rare occurrence?
Sorry for so many questions but thanks in advance for any replies!


----------



## Ella Ruby (Apr 2, 2021)

I have never had cows, only goats so I can't speak to the specific differences, I'm sure someone on here has had both.
The main challenges with goats are parasites and mineral deficiency, lots of good info about dealing with both on here.
I don’t think it’s very common to loose an adult goat, but kids can be fragile and pretty much everyone I know who has kidded has lost kids (myself included). I am on Deborah Niemann (aka the Thrifty homesteader)’s email list and she just sent an article about the differences between cows and goats 








Goats vs. Cows: The Ultimate Comparison


If you're wondering whether you should buy goats or cows for your home dairy, this article explains the pros and cons of every aspect of owning both.




thriftyhomesteader.com


----------



## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

I have never had cows either, but I would not say goats are difficult. I'm 6 years in to keeping dairy goats and (knock on wood) no untimely adult deaths yet. I think the people with stories about their goats just dropping dead are the ones who don't realize that a goat still needs proper nutrition, parasite management, etc. Goats have a scrappy reputation and a lot of people who have them don't care for them properly because of it.
I do have one or two kids a year that are stillborn or die during a difficult kidding but goats produce many more kids a year than cows do so I think that's to be expected. I had a couple litters of quads this year and one litter of quints, whereas a cow usually has a single calf or possibly a twin. So with more kids total there are of course higher chances of some being stillborn. 

I know @AndersonRanch has both goats and cows


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Welcome to the forum! I applaud you for doing your research before deciding on goats.👏

I myself have not had any experience with cows, but I can maybe clear up some of your questions.



Milk Machine said:


> What are some other major challenges with goats?


My two biggest challenges are: Parasites and Minerals

Parasites are a big, huge deal. Rotate your pastures, understand how to properly use chemical dewormers (or herbal), choose stock that is resilient or resistant. There are ways to manage parasites, but it is something you have to stay on top of.

Minerals for me, have also been a struggle to get right, but for other people it's not such a big deal. It depends on how deficient your land is. Loose minerals are imperative, Copper boluses are important as well. It has taken me three years to achieve the super shiny coat conditions I've been looking for.



Milk Machine said:


> Do goats just kind of die? In talking with some goat owners even when they are telling me the wonders of goats they always seem to add a death story that makes jt seem like death from disease is more common in goats.


😄 This probably stems from the fact that when a goat is sick, they go down really quickly. Goats don't show symptoms of illness or their symptoms are very subtle until they are really in trouble. You really have to keep your eye out for anything that is off, and take immediate action if you do notice anything.

Goat keeping is a very intricate business, but overall I couldn't recommend them enough. They bring incredible joy to my family's lives and my two goats produce enough milk for my family that we don't need to buy milk from the store anymore. Goats will keep you busy, smiling, scratching your head, and most certainly laughing. If they are a route you decide to go, I urge you to take plenty of time to do your research, and if you do, they will certainly reward you for it.


----------



## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

I would say goats are a bit more fickle and fragile and for sure have their own learning curve compared to cows. I have way more cows then goats and even with the multiples with goats I still have more calfs then kids and have less losses with the calf’s. Melon friend basically hit the nail on the head with what she had to say. You have to be more hands on with the goats, especially the kids compared to calfs.
Kids get chilled more easy, they get dehydrated faster since they are smaller, and in general you really have to keep a eye on them and jump on any issue fast. I guess that’s what I mean with more hands on. 
I do enjoy both and for difference reasons. Goats are smart and curious and that tends to lead them to be a little more suicidal then cows. I’ve never had the cows break into the chicken feed and get sick or stick their head threw the fence and get stuck just because they could. And as someone that spent the morning being mad at my yearling goats and yelling that I was going to sell them all the goats tend to test me more lol but I love the goats personalities, and that they are smaller and easier to man handle. If a goat needs a shot or to be drenched I can do it on my own with no equipment, ropes or a army of people, not so with the cows. I do NOT like having to trim the goats feet! Looking back that just might have been a deal breaker for me on getting goats but I have a lot of goats  And kids, there is NOTHING more cute then when those babies start to bounce around. I will be at my wits end with the goats and I will think about those bouncing babies and all is forgiven. 
What I would suggest doing though is take a month or so and just lurk on this group. Ask questions on someone else’s topic, we all loved to help. Read what people post and get a general idea about them. I’m going to warn you though that we do tend to post more about emergency situations then we do “everyone is doing great today” so don’t take the posts as that is going to be your every day life if you get goats. We have a lot of people in this group, it’s not just 5 of us posting about sick goats. Then if you go with it then hold off on selling the cows if you can and get 2 goats (you always want at least 2) and see how you like them. Like any other livestock people love a species or they dislike them. Some like one over the other as well. If you do try goats, start small. I have seen a lot of people jump right in the deep end to start with and they get burned out fast because they are trying to learn while keeping up on things.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

AndersonRanch said:


> Read what people post and get a general idea about them. I’m going to warn you though that we do tend to post more about emergency situations then we do “everyone is doing great today” so don’t take the posts as that is going to be your every day life if you get goats.


This is so true. I've owned goats since 2018 and I've never had an emergency that required a vet out yet. 🤞


----------



## Milk Machine (Jul 18, 2021)

AndersonRanch said:


> I would say goats are a bit more fickle and fragile and for sure have their own learning curve compared to cows. I have way more cows then goats and even with the multiples with goats I still have more calfs then kids and have less losses with the calf’s. Melon friend basically hit the nail on the head with what she had to say. You have to be more hands on with the goats, especially the kids compared to calfs.
> Kids get chilled more easy, they get dehydrated faster since they are smaller, and in general you really have to keep a eye on them and jump on any issue fast. I guess that’s what I mean with more hands on.
> I do enjoy both and for difference reasons. Goats are smart and curious and that tends to lead them to be a little more suicidal then cows. I’ve never had the cows break into the chicken feed and get sick or stick their head threw the fence and get stuck just because they could. And as someone that spent the morning being mad at my yearling goats and yelling that I was going to sell them all the goats tend to test me more lol but I love the goats personalities, and that they are smaller and easier to man handle. If a goat needs a shot or to be drenched I can do it on my own with no equipment, ropes or a army of people, not so with the cows. I do NOT like having to trim the goats feet! Looking back that just might have been a deal breaker for me on getting goats but I have a lot of goats  And kids, there is NOTHING more cute then when those babies start to bounce around. I will be at my wits end with the goats and I will think about those bouncing babies and all is forgiven.
> What I would suggest doing though is take a month or so and just lurk on this group. Ask questions on someone else’s topic, we all loved to help. Read what people post and get a general idea about them. I’m going to warn you though that we do tend to post more about emergency situations then we do “everyone is doing great today” so don’t take the posts as that is going to be your every day life if you get goats. We have a lot of people in this group, it’s not just 5 of us posting about sick goats. Then if you go with it then hold off on selling the cows if you can and get 2 goats (you always want at least 2) and see how you like them. Like any other livestock people love a species or they dislike them. Some like one over the other as well. If you do try goats, start small. I have seen a lot of people jump right in the deep end to start with and they get burned out fast because they are trying to learn while keeping up on things.


Thank you all for your replies! @AndersonRanch , what breed of cows do you raise? Mostly I was planning to do what you suggest, lurking & following & asking here. I was also considering holding on to my cows & adding 2 goats to do a side by side comparison. I haven't figured out a way to manage that given the space that I have but if I can that would be ideal. I'm also thinking, if possible, to see if I could board my cows somewhere for several months to give the goats a fair shot. I'm afraid if I just try to add goats to the cow's (& sheep & chickens etc etc) it will be too much & not a fair trial. For example, I kind of want to see how much bedding & cleaning goats would require but if they share stead with the cows I won't see a difference. I'm still thinking things over. I'm not in a rush to decide


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

So my sister does Jersey cows, and I have dairy goats. I've done quite a bit with the cows over the years...milking daily for a while, and also caring for them when she's on vacation. 
You can't treat goats the same as cows. You definitely need better fencing, for starters. Parasites are more of an issue with my goats than they seem to be with my sister's cows. She worms hers maybe once or twice a year. I use herbal wormer 2x a week during peek worm season, and chemical wormers as backup. 
I greatly prefer milking my goats. They are smaller. If they decide to kick you, they can't do much damage. 
I do have to handle the goat milk much more carefully than the cow's milk, to avoid having a goaty flavor. 
I have several people whose kids have lactose issues, who buy goat milk from me because their kids can drink it, so that's cool!
Goats have loads of personality. Not saying cows don't, but the goats are just completely different. 
The biggest thing for me is that my dairy goats can turn our nasty, brushy, overgrown woods into much more pleasant places...and they can convert that brush into milk! That's something the cows simply cannot do. 
Cows and goats are very different animals. The dairy aspect is similar in many ways, but the basic management is much different. It seems to me that a lot of the issues you see with goats is because they're treated like little cows. And they just have very different needs!


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I think @Jubillee has had cows and goats, I know @Sfgwife has. Maybe they can offer their opinions.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

And I would rather keep a buck than a bull!


----------



## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

If you're in it to make money (we all are to a degree), I would think you'd make much more money on cows. Can't say we're really making much if any on our goats but we're older and we just like goats. Fencing has to be at least woven wire (we use sheep and goat fence), there went our profit this year just fencing a new area. If we had chosen cows we could have just kept the existing barbed wire. Something to consider.

We have to sell several (4 or 5?) goats just to even up the sale of one steer. Not sure sell price of one steer but here goats are $2.60 a lb at meat auction but we typically sell at 50-60 lbs so we're only getting about $125-150 per goat. That's what they were selling for yesterday - not selling ours yet but dropped by the auction to see what they were bringing. Can sell goats for pets (not registered) for around $150 so we try to do that but our males (dairy - kiko) go to auction. That's for non-registered goats. I see on craigslist most are going around $250 so maybe they are up a bit but we've typically sold to people we know so we can see they've gone to good homes. 

We also have a couple nigerians and a couple pygmies. One word of advice, pick a breed and stick with it.  We got a pygmy and a couple nigerians for brush eaters, they didn't eat enough brush so we picked up 5 dairy and they did great on brush. And then we thought we'd breed them and now we have 25 goats of different sizes. So be careful, lol, they multiply and you get attached to each one. 

If I had to do over, I'd get only kiko-boers, kiko are more sturdy parasite resistant goats. And just easier to take all the males to auction all at once and be done with the selling process. Never have any trouble selling does.


----------



## Mike at Capra Vista (Nov 30, 2017)

And I would rather clean up after a goat than a cow.


----------



## Milk Machine (Jul 18, 2021)

@Caileigh Jane Smith , when you say you have to handle your goat's milk more carefully, what do you mean. I'm pretty careful with my cow's milk (forestripping, good milking hygiene, cooling rapidly as soon after milking as possible etc). Are there other precautions you need to take with goats?

And @tiffin , you mentioned sticking to one breed. I don't even have goats but am already tempted to try different things! I was wondering if it is easy or possible to raise Niegerians & standard size breeds together. I just thought a couple ND could be nice for components in cheesemaking. I know that any gaps in anything would need to be even smaller for the tiny kids.

As far as fencing, we have a pretty good barn and barnyard with panel fencing. The pasture perimeter fence is 5 strand of high tensile hot wire. We have the thought of making it 7 strand with every other wire hot if 5 is not enough for goats.

Also, our pasture is being replanted with a fairly typical midwest pasture mix & also includes some chicory. From some talk with goat people that pasture their animals they tell me that this will work for their forage in the pasture months. We do daily rotational grazing & would continue that to help with worm issues. Do you all agree with this? I'm reading Gianaclis Caldwell's book now & was hopeful after she referred to goats as growsers (as opposed to STRICTLY browsers) meaning they'll browse first by preference/design but will also graze . I don't mind supplementing with alfalfa or something year round if necessary but do want to utilize our pasture as much as possible. We do have sheep who will also help utilize it.


----------



## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Milk Machine said:


> 'm reading Gianaclis Caldwell's book now & was hopeful after she referred to goats as growsers (as opposed to STRICTLY browsers) meaning they'll browse first by preference/design but will also graze


That is my absolute favorite book for goats! Your pasture sounds fine to me. Plenty of people do have goats on grasses. Mine love chicory. I'm not sure about rotating daily, someone else will have to chime in on that. It might be better to let pastures rest longer so that the worms' life cycle can be broken. I could be wrong though.

Since you are still looking at breeds, I must be biased and point out kinders. 😊 I raise them and love them. I think they are a breed that disserves more attention. I find them very easy to work with being a mid-sized breed, but they still produce plenty of milk. I have a doe that produces a gallon a day, and she's not even top notch stock. Another bonus to them is they aren't known to be quite as prone to jumping and escaping as other goat breeds. Just needed to mention them as a service to my favorite breed. 😉

Another resource that may help with your decision is the podcast "For the Love of Goats" hosted by Deborah Neiman. She has a few episodes dedicated to people who haven't even purchased goats yet.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

For the cows, my sister washes everything in hot, soapy water, makes sure the udders aren't dirty-looking, milks, filters, and puts her milk in the fridge. I sanitize everything with bleach, wash and dry udders, fore strip, milk, filter, then put my milk in an ice bath to cool it quickly. If I can store it around 38 degrees, it stays non goaty tasting for usually about 10 days. I am extremely sensitive to flavors in my milk, so I like everything tasting really sweet and fresh. It's not like the milk is going to go bad if I don't follow that milking procedure, but I just hate tasting the goat flavor. The cow's milk really doesn't get a taste, even though it isn't handled as carefully.


----------



## tiffin (Mar 3, 2021)

Milk Machine said:


> And @tiffin , you mentioned sticking to one breed. I don't even have goats but am already tempted to try different things! I was wondering if it is easy or possible to raise Niegerians & standard size breeds together. I just thought a couple ND could be nice for components in cheesemaking. I know that any gaps in anything would need to be even smaller for the tiny kids.
> 
> As far as fencing, we have a pretty good barn and barnyard with panel fencing. The pasture perimeter fence is 5 strand of high tensile hot wire. We have the thought of making it 7 strand with every other wire hot if 5 is not enough for goats.


When we had electric fencing we only had 3 wires and it worked just fine.

Certainly possible to raise Nigerians with standard breeds. We raise all 3 (pygmy, nigerian and alpine) but the taller breeds are the bosses and the littler ones learn to deal with it but they can be bullied by the bigger girls. Don't know it makes much difference because the social structure of a goat is the queen is the boss, and you can tell the heirarchy after that. In our case Shaggy is the queen, then Chocolata, then Oreo, then Marshmallow, then Nuisance, then Daughter (the nigerian) - these are all in one pasture. When the pygmies were with them, they were at the bottom. But it's certainly doable. The big pain came when we started to breed, we were able to breed. Basically a buck for each size and we didn't keep a buck then so we had to 'rent' different sizes. Now that we have two bucks, we have to make sure the little girls don't get bred by mistake by the bigger buck.


----------



## Ella Ruby (Apr 2, 2021)

MellonFriend said:


> Another resource that may help with your decision is the podcast "For the Love of Goats" hosted by Deborah Neiman. She has a few episodes dedicated to people who haven't even purchased goats yet.


I really like that podcast and if you prefer to read, she also has great blog with podcast transcripts. Her blog is called the Thrifty Homesteader Home
Here’s the link for podcast transcripts
Podcast Archives


----------



## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

We had a jersey with the goats for a while. We moved her down the road to a friend's house. The reasons we decided to stick with goats (we were milking both):

Breeding. Our biggest issue. Not for you most likely as you already have several cows. We were having to AI her and every time she came into heat, it was pouring rain and we couldn't get our trailer up to the pen as we'd get stuck in the mud. Also, while she was super friendly (I milked her in the pen with no stanchion), trying to get her and lead and trailer her was a pain. Granted, had we bought a cow that was lead trained and trailer trained etc, things would have been easier most likely. 

However she needed to be bred again and the amount she was eating for the milk return we were getting, economically the goats were better. I know these things would be different if our situation was different. We breed our goats for parasite resistance. Not to never have parasites (cause that will bever happen) but that they will be hardy and have fewer issues. I've just about got my herd to that point. I've only lost one adult. She was literally perfectly fine one day and gone the next. I had her necropsied and it was a fast-acting form of pneumonia. I'm very hands/eyes on my herd and notice the subtle cues that something is off. She had no cues at all. I have lost a couple of kids, due to my own fault. Otherwise, I stay on top of my herd and it pays off. Knowing your herd well will always help against losing your animals. 

We have Nubians and mini-Nubians, ours do not escape fences. When we had Nigerians, they constantly escaped. I make cheese and all kinds of dairy products with our milk. Both breeds have good butterfat for that. I never cool our milk down quick...we milk, filter, stick in the fridge. No off-taste and lasts for a while. I have lots of people try our milk and they love it. We have our minerals under control and this year has actually been our best. Only minimal issues popping up, minimal worming, no supplementing extras, everyone looks great. It's been a relief.

In the end, goats were much easier for myself to deal with.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Goats will eat themselves to death if they get into feed. They don't have a shut off valve when it comes to eating grains.

Mold is bad. Cows can tolerate a bit as their rumens are so large, moldy hay of feed will kill a goat.
Wet areas in pasture are not good. Certain snails carrying parasites can cause meningeal worms that go to the goats brains.

Most goats cannot be tied out on a tether safely unless you are right there.
Dogs are the biggest predator of goats, then coyotes and other predators.

I'm not trying to dissuade you, just giving you some basic facts. Metal trash cans with grain help prevent 
Overeating. Watch the hay for mold, good fencing and fresh water and goats will do well.


----------



## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> And I would rather keep a buck than a bull!


My bucks are SO much more destructive then the bulls. I’ve also never been attacked by a bull but have with the bucks, even if it was their idea of “playing”. Bulls also don’t stink. So on that I do 100% prefer bulls over bucks.
We run mostly black angus and angus cross. We also keep a nurse cow or two around at all times to help with the twins that angus is known for. We like jerseys and their sweet personality, plus they cross with the angus so well and end up having nice little bulky steers for market or nice little heifers with extra milk. 
The issue with mixing breeds is you are going to have kids to sell. It’s usually easier to sell those kids or they are not crosses. Another thing is minis and full sized. I love Nigerians, I think they are the most cutest goats there is but I just won’t risk my boers getting out and breeding them. For smaller breeds it can be a death sentence if bred by a full sized buck, well not the breeding it’s self but trying to push those kids out. 
But it sounds like you have started your homework and have a pretty good plan going.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

AndersonRanch said:


> My bucks are SO much more destructive then the bulls. I’ve also never been attacked by a bull but have with the bucks, even if it was their idea of “playing”. Bulls also don’t stink. So on that I do 100% prefer bulls over bucks.
> We run mostly black angus and angus cross. We also keep a nurse cow or two around at all times to help with the twins that angus is known for. We like jerseys and their sweet personality, plus they cross with the angus so well and end up having nice little bulky steers for market or nice little heifers with extra milk.
> The issue with mixing breeds is you are going to have kids to sell. It’s usually easier to sell those kids or they are not crosses. Another thing is minis and full sized. I love Nigerians, I think they are the most cutest goats there is but I just won’t risk my boers getting out and breeding them. For smaller breeds it can be a death sentence if bred by a full sized buck, well not the breeding it’s self but trying to push those kids out.
> But it sounds like you have started your homework and have a pretty good plan going.


Maybe I've just been fortunate with really mellow bucks so far. I think it really depends on what you're set up for, too.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> For the cows, my sister washes everything in hot, soapy water, makes sure the udders aren't dirty-looking, milks, filters, and puts her milk in the fridge. I sanitize everything with bleach, wash and dry udders, fore strip, milk, filter, then put my milk in an ice bath to cool it quickly. If I can store it around 38 degrees, it stays non goaty tasting for usually about 10 days. I am extremely sensitive to flavors in my milk, so I like everything tasting really sweet and fresh. It's not like the milk is going to go bad if I don't follow that milking procedure, but I just hate tasting the goat flavor. The cow's milk really doesn't get a taste, even though it isn't handled as carefully.



I handle my cow milk jist like my goat milk.... no difference to keep it safe for us. Also. I stead of bleach. Look at food grade sanitizers. They are better to use on food stuffs.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> So my sister does Jersey cows, and I have dairy goats. I've done quite a bit with the cows over the years...milking daily for a while, and also caring for them when she's on vacation.
> You can't treat goats the same as cows. You definitely need better fencing, for starters. Parasites are more of an issue with my goats than they seem to be with my sister's cows. She worms hers maybe once or twice a year. I use herbal wormer 2x a week during peek worm season, and chemical wormers as backup.
> I greatly prefer milking my goats. They are smaller. If they decide to kick you, they can't do much damage.
> I do have to handle the goat milk much more carefully than the cow's milk, to avoid having a goaty flavor.
> ...



My dexter LOVE LOVE LOVE forage just as much as the goats do. Yes they do need a bit more grass but put them in our silvo pasture and the forage is gone before they think about touchin the grass there for them. The breed of cow makes a difference in how you need treat them. Holstiens and some Jerseys have been bred to live on silage mostly and absolutely must have it in order to live period. They cannot live on grass and hay alone. My dexters are dual purpose cattle milk and meat. They turn forage into wonderful milk. So you cannot judge all cows when you have only really dealt with specifically dairy breeds. Dairy cows are a whole nother world in cattle. We treat our cows just like the goats. The difference is worming.... you do not check famacha on a cow. And our cows are just as goofy and entertaining as the goats here. Now will my dexter give several gallons of milk a day... absolutely not. But my ff this year gifted me half a gallon oad milking and that was with calf nursing two qtrs while i milked two. So most likely had i milked her after we weaned her ten month old fatty i would have gotten two gallons a day at least. . So plenty for a homestead.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

AndersonRanch said:


> I would say goats are a bit more fickle and fragile and for sure have their own learning curve compared to cows. I have way more cows then goats and even with the multiples with goats I still have more calfs then kids and have less losses with the calf’s. Melon friend basically hit the nail on the head with what she had to say. You have to be more hands on with the goats, especially the kids compared to calfs.
> Kids get chilled more easy, they get dehydrated faster since they are smaller, and in general you really have to keep a eye on them and jump on any issue fast. I guess that’s what I mean with more hands on.
> I do enjoy both and for difference reasons. Goats are smart and curious and that tends to lead them to be a little more suicidal then cows. I’ve never had the cows break into the chicken feed and get sick or stick their head threw the fence and get stuck just because they could. And as someone that spent the morning being mad at my yearling goats and yelling that I was going to sell them all the goats tend to test me more lol but I love the goats personalities, and that they are smaller and easier to man handle. If a goat needs a shot or to be drenched I can do it on my own with no equipment, ropes or a army of people, not so with the cows. I do NOT like having to trim the goats feet! Looking back that just might have been a deal breaker for me on getting goats but I have a lot of goats  And kids, there is NOTHING more cute then when those babies start to bounce around. I will be at my wits end with the goats and I will think about those bouncing babies and all is forgiven.
> What I would suggest doing though is take a month or so and just lurk on this group. Ask questions on someone else’s topic, we all loved to help. Read what people post and get a general idea about them. I’m going to warn you though that we do tend to post more about emergency situations then we do “everyone is doing great today” so don’t take the posts as that is going to be your every day life if you get goats. We have a lot of people in this group, it’s not just 5 of us posting about sick goats. Then if you go with it then hold off on selling the cows if you can and get 2 goats (you always want at least 2) and see how you like them. Like any other livestock people love a species or they dislike them. Some like one over the other as well. If you do try goats, start small. I have seen a lot of people jump right in the deep end to start with and they get burned out fast because they are trying to learn while keeping up on things.



Yep all of this. I think because goats are often more easy to deal with necause of size we baby them more. Making them a bit more dependant on us than the cows. Plus..... very very rarely if ever are we needing trim cow hooves. Hooves make my back feel like poop lol.

Just a for instance.... the bucks live with the cows in one pasture here. I rarely do squat to these boys. Like twice a year they MIGHT need wormed. And hooves every four months. My does..... once a month i am trimming hooves and maybe three times a year wormed. But by running the bucks primarily with the cows...... the wormy business does not so much cross lines. Yes they can both have bp worms but for some reason they do not wanna make nice with the other variety of livestock. Where in the doe pasture we absolutely must rotate them to keep the worms at bay or else we have this big nasty worm problem. Each side has the same almost seven acres for tootin around in but dang my bucks famacha is always this gorgeous bright red vs the does between a red and pink. Makes me sick lol!


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

I think a lot of the difference in cows and goats is size and how fast they crash. Just an example... baby goats absolutely must nurse within the first few hours of birth to live...... calves can go five days without nursing and still live. Ideal for calves absolutely not! But still a calf can live if the first colostrum it gets is at five days old. A baby goat would already be too far gone at five days to save. 

When looking for goats.... ask about the hardiness of the ones you are looking at. Different breeds are different as far as care needs. Yes they all have some of the same needs but some breeds are super hardy. A friend of ours has texmaster goats and he has had his buck for five or so years i think it is.... never needed worm this guy. He gets hooves done once or twice a year. Then on the same farm he has a nubian doe. He complains that she always needs something. Lol. But. She gets grain for milk making and grain makes her needs different than the buck. Make sense? There are some dairy goat lines that do not need much care while others try to die on you weekly. So it is good to ask about things like worming, hoof trims, how much feed do they have to have to keep condition while in milk. Things like that.


Our cows are happy on pasture, in the woods and on hay. Once every week or two they get a bucket of grain a d alfalfa pellet mix to keep them in the come to the peasants call kind of thing. And we can look them over really well while they eat and touch the ones that like the loves. They get wormed twice a year and an annual vax booster. When i am milking i give grain and alfalfa pellet to keep them busy eatin while i milk. Not so much because they cannot make milk and keep condition without it. But mine are dexters, a braunveih cross, and two charolais. The chars are freezer fodder that we are growing out. None of ours need silage or pelleted feed daily to live. The dexters are dual purpose milk and meat but have been bred for their small statures and hardiness in pretty much any enviornment. The dexters forage nearly as good as the goats.... but can reach higher....sometimes. Lol!


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> And I would rather keep a buck than a bull!


Then you have not been around a well mannered bull. . Yes you always always keep an eye on a bull no matter how calm and docile he is. But we do that to the bucks here too. And the boar.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Milk Machine said:


> Thank you all for your replies! @AndersonRanch , what breed of cows do you raise? Mostly I was planning to do what you suggest, lurking & following & asking here. I was also considering holding on to my cows & adding 2 goats to do a side by side comparison. I haven't figured out a way to manage that given the space that I have but if I can that would be ideal. I'm also thinking, if possible, to see if I could board my cows somewhere for several months to give the goats a fair shot. I'm afraid if I just try to add goats to the cow's (& sheep & chickens etc etc) it will be too much & not a fair trial. For example, I kind of want to see how much bedding & cleaning goats would require but if they share stead with the cows I won't see a difference. I'm still thinking things over. I'm not in a rush to decide


Our goats and cows live together. There is just poly rope high enough for the goats to get under and the cows cannot. That way the feed and housing needs can be met without much hassle. . And people do run sheep with cows and goats too. You just have to have mi eral a d feed (if you feed pellet) safe for the sheep to nom.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> Then you have not been around a well mannered bull. . Yes you always always keep an eye on a bull no matter how calm and docile he is. But we do that to the bucks here too. And the boar.


I will freely admit, cattle are not my thing. I have handled them out of necessity, but I don't really care for them. I do like that a goat is going to have to try a whole lot harder to kill me than a cow would. If it comes down to a battle of strength, I am much more likely to win with a buck than I am with a bull.


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

Sfgwife said:


> My dexter LOVE LOVE LOVE forage just as much as the goats do. Yes they do need a bit more grass but put them in our silvo pasture and the forage is gone before they think about touchin the grass there for them. The breed of cow makes a difference in how you need treat them. Holstiens and some Jerseys have been bred to live on silage mostly and absolutely must have it in order to live period. They cannot live on grass and hay alone. My dexters are dual purpose cattle milk and meat. They turn forage into wonderful milk. So you cannot judge all cows when you have only really dealt with specifically dairy breeds. Dairy cows are a whole nother world in cattle. We treat our cows just like the goats. The difference is worming.... you do not check famacha on a cow. And our cows are just as goofy and entertaining as the goats here. Now will my dexter give several gallons of milk a day... absolutely not. But my ff this year gifted me half a gallon oad milking and that was with calf nursing two qtrs while i milked two. So most likely had i milked her after we weaned her ten month old fatty i would have gotten two gallons a day at least. . So plenty for a homestead.


That's interesting about the Dexters eating brush! I have read about training cattle to eat a wider variety of foods. There's a method some guy came up with...can't think what it's called right now. I was never sure how successful that would be. 
I originally got the goats to deal with some of the invasive species like autumn olive, honeysuckle, and mutliflora rose that abound on our property. We used to have such dense brush that you almost couldn't get through it in the summertime. The areas that the goats have been working on are starting to look so much better. You can actually see more than a few feet into the trees! 
This has got me thinking, now, that it would be interesting to see a side by side comparison of cattle and goats foraging in the same areas. I'm curious if the end results would be similar.


----------



## brigieboo (Apr 8, 2021)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> And I would rather keep a buck than a bull!


i'd disagree 😂 you can smell my buck as soon as you step out of the house, he eats like crazy till he gets bloated, so he has to live in his own pen with food rations, and the only problem we've had with a bull is him getting out one morning when the electric fence was down and we found him in the barn eating hay. lol


----------



## brigieboo (Apr 8, 2021)

goats are cheaper to manage...especially in winter. Our cows will be going through 2-4 bales a day and the goats will be going through 2-3 bales in 3 days or so. Cows also eat way more grain, so you go through that 50 pound bag way faster with the cows than with the goats. 

Now, yes, we have gone through more problems with my goats than with the cows, but the goats are easier to deal with those problems with. We're not chasing a 1500 pound cow around the pasture trying to get her in the barn to milk her, we're grabbing the collar on a stubborn 100 pound goat and dragging her in. 😂 With a cow...you pretty much need a milking machine. Unless you wanna milk her out by hand once or twice a day..which would take a while. But with a goat you can milk her out by hand in less than 10 minutes. 

As far as kidding/calving, we had one cow that needed assistance. she was a first timer and it was a big bull calf. the others we've never been there when they kidded and we'll come down and there is a little dry calf wobbling about. I wasnt there once when the first kid of three came and she was laying there, not cleaned off, practically dead. I did get her warmed up and saved but if i hadnt come down there right then she would have died. I've had to assist my goats several times.....i've also had problems with the does not wanting to let the kids drink, or her teats being too big so they couldnt nurse.. its definitely more work on our parts for the goats kidding, but i'm going to be completely honest, the kids are way cuter than the calves so its all worth it 😂 

Kids are more fragile than calves for sure, if its too cold out you're going to need to lock the real little ones in the barn with a heat lamp, and when the does are kidding when its real hot out they need a fan. cows kinda just run in the pasture year round without a problem....the occasional sprained ankle happens and they just heal on their own. 

Goats can be in the same pasture as cows as long as you make sure they warm up to eachother first. I brought my first goats home, put them in a pen next to the cows, the cow stuck her head over the fence and that goat jumped right out and went running off. i dont know how she jumped that fence cuz she never did it again, or jumped anything close to that ever again but that cow sure scared her bad. Also I've put the goats in the steer pen before to eat down the grass in there and they've done fine until the steers want to play....except the goats and steers dont have the same idea of playing and they ended up chasing that terrified goat around the pen...now that would be different in the pasture where they're all spread out and grazing, and my buck has done fine with the cows in their pasture. 

goats are better for keeping pastures down for sure. no matter how many cows you have in a pasture, you're gonna need to mow it after a while. goats will strip it clean. 

I like having goats better than having cows... theres more you can do with them, and besides if they have horns, a goat can never hurt you. it can kick you to its hearts desire while milking, but its not gonna break a rib like a cow will.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I can't compare to cows because I've never had any, but when it comes to goats, parasites and hoof care depend a lot on climate and management. I live in a mostly arid climate so I deal with fewer parasites to begin with than people who live in hot, wet climates. The does I had that were more parasite-prone were moved along and now my girls need deworming maybe twice a year if they've been bred. My boys basically never get wormed after two years old (younger goats tend to have slightly more worm problems than mature ones it seems).

I have rock piles for my goats to climb on and I almost never have to trim hooves. The young goats and girls need trimming occasionally but not often. Maybe 3 times a year? It's July and I believe I trimmed hooves once in March and again in June because we've had a lot of rain this year so the pastures are soft and the grass is lush enough to encourage abnormally fast hoof growth. I can't even remember the last time I had to trim my packgoat wethers' hooves. Once they mature their hooves seem to self-trim almost entirely. I think the girls need a little more just because they aren't as heavy and they aren't quite as active. I find that trimming goats' hooves is a quick, easy job. I'd rather trim 20 goats than one horse!


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

brigieboo said:


> i'd disagree 😂 you can smell my buck as soon as you step out of the house, he eats like crazy till he gets bloated, so he has to live in his own pen with food rations, and the only problem we've had with a bull is him getting out one morning when the electric fence was down and we found him in the barn eating hay. lol


Lol! Everybody is jumping on me for this comment! I'm really glad that bulls work so well for a lot of you! I think it really does depend on what you're set up for. I'm a fairly fit, 150 lb female, and I don't get hardly any farm help, unless it's from my sister, who is much smaller and more petite than I am. So for me, I would prefer to have an animal that I can wrestle to the ground if need be. We have had fences and gates get torn up by bulls around here. We had one bull that routinely jumped out and went to visit the neighbor's cows. He spent more time at the neighbor's than he did here. I realize that has a lot to do with set up...I am much more prepared to house, handle, and pasture a buck. Yes, they stink. Yes, they can have an attitude. But if they get bad, I can flip them, or tie them up when I'm working in the pen. I feel confident that I can handle my bucks by myself, which is imperative, since I usually don't have much backup when things go wrong.


----------



## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

Not jumping on you at all! And your comment of battles of strength is absolutely correct! And there is nothing wrong with liking one over the other. I don’t do pigs well, or ducks or guinea hens. I cant keep a rabbit alive to save my own life lol these animals are just not for me, doesn’t mean I’m wrong or right in not liking them or wanting them


----------



## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

brigieboo said:


> goats are cheaper to manage...especially in winter. Our cows will be going through 2-4 bales a day and the goats will be going through 2-3 bales in 3 days or so. Cows also eat way more grain, so you go through that 50 pound bag way faster with the cows than with the goats.
> 
> Now, yes, we have gone through more problems with my goats than with the cows, but the goats are easier to deal with those problems with. We're not chasing a 1500 pound cow around the pasture trying to get her in the barn to milk her, we're grabbing the collar on a stubborn 100 pound goat and dragging her in.  With a cow...you pretty much need a milking machine. Unless you wanna milk her out by hand once or twice a day..which would take a while. But with a goat you can milk her out by hand in less than 10 minutes.


But those are not really fair comparisons. Yes a animal that is 1/10 the size is going to eat less. But would 10 goats eat more or less then a cow? I have boers and 10 of them for sure eat more then a cow, like by a lot! I’m not sure what a dairy doe would eat I’ve only had a few and kept with the boers. 
Same with the milking, if you have a goat that produces 1 gallon a milking and you have 6 of them and a cow that gives 6 gallons it would take the same amount of actually milking not counting the time to swap goats or to catch them and anything else that needs to be done going from on to the other. That is one thing I did like about milking a cow over a goat. I think the most I ever had to milk on my dairy crosses was 4, it was a fight just to get 1 to come threw the gate, get that one, tie her up, give her her grain and get to work. Put her back and keep the others from charging threw, then getting the next one and still having 3 others try to come back threw because the one you already Milked swears she didn’t get enough grain. The cow I gave her her feed, grabbed a bucket, snuggled up to her and went to work. I could also get my daughter in there to help. Not the fastest Milker BY FAR but every drop of milk she got out was more then I had to do lol


----------



## Cedarwinds Farm (Dec 2, 2019)

AndersonRanch said:


> Not jumping on you at all! And your comment of battles of strength is absolutely correct! And there is nothing wrong with liking one over the other. I don’t do pigs well, or ducks or guinea hens. I cant keep a rabbit alive to save my own life lol these animals are just not for me, doesn’t mean I’m wrong or right in not liking them or wanting them


I know.  And thank you for your kindness. I just thought it was so funny that 3 different people responded to that comment. I was like, 'oookay, these people like their bulls! Cool!'
Guineas are hard to keep alive. They are way more difficult than chickens. We lose several every year.


----------



## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I’ve never had a bull or buck but I’ve had family with bulls. Out of five bulls (over many years) three were great, two were dangerous, I mean horror-movie level scary. For my preference, I’ve decided I’d rather take my chances with a stinky buck. 

And we chose goats because we don’t want to be drowning in milk but do want some. I can see how some would prefer cattle, some goats. It’s all about individual needs and preferences as so many have said. Plus, most of the time I’ll be caring for them alone and I just felt that’d be easier with something I can carry when needed.

Personality wise, I adore my little ND goats. They are personable, seek affection, and are hilarious with big personalities, yet I can pick them up and move them if need be.


----------



## AndersonRanch (Oct 18, 2020)

Caileigh Jane Smith said:


> I know.  And thank you for your kindness. I just thought it was so funny that 3 different people responded to that comment. I was like, 'oookay, these people like their bulls! Cool!'
> Guineas are hard to keep alive. They are way more difficult than chickens. We lose several every year.


Lol well I can’t speak for everyone but yes I do like my bulls. But we have NEVER put up with mean ones or ones we couldn’t trust. Not all are friendly but we have to be able to do what we need to around him and just keep a eye on them to be safe. And of course some are friendly, maybe you will get a kick out of this. This was me at 15 with my bull Circus (I was going to sell him to the circus because of his big ears) I would get in SO much trouble over befriending that bull. But he was cool and the talk of all my dads cattle buddies. After we went on our yearly cattle drive we would lay under a tree and eat potato chips together. That was NOT something the other ranchers would do or allow lol








And this is my buddy now. My parents went to a fancy auction and got him. They got home at 3am and just unloaded so they could get some sleep. I got up at 6 and his rope was around his foot. I knew nothing about this bull so I stood there and said ok buddy here’s the deal, you mess with me and you keep the rope halter on, you try to kill me and I’ll kill you first. This bull is a total lover! He was the one I bawled my eyes out when we had the fire because I didn’t want him to die. He was smart enough to come in right as we were ready to book it out of there because the fire was getting close. We opened the trailer gate and said come on Donnie we have to go and he loaded right up. The other bulls we have are very gentle but not Donnie and circus gentle.


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

brigieboo said:


> goats are cheaper to manage...especially in winter. Our cows will be going through 2-4 bales a day and the goats will be going through 2-3 bales in 3 days or so. Cows also eat way more grain, so you go through that 50 pound bag way faster with the cows than with the goats.
> 
> Now, yes, we have gone through more problems with my goats than with the cows, but the goats are easier to deal with those problems with. We're not chasing a 1500 pound cow around the pasture trying to get her in the barn to milk her, we're grabbing the collar on a stubborn 100 pound goat and dragging her in. 😂 With a cow...you pretty much need a milking machine. Unless you wanna milk her out by hand once or twice a day..which would take a while. But with a goat you can milk her out by hand in less than 10 minutes.
> 
> ...



Cows do not need grain. If handled cows can be as gentle or even more so as a goat. Yea if you have plain pature cows then getting them up mighht be an issue. Milking.. i can milk our the cow nearly as fast as my goats and do it by hand. So some of this is just not accurate for all cattle. Just like with goats... it depends on the handling of the animal.


----------



## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

@AndersonRanch I love that picture!


----------

