# New Goats! Super Skinny, Though...



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

I just bought these 2 girls this morning. I know they were probably not the wisest purchase, but when I saw them, I just had to bring them home and fatten them up! The previous owner had them living on nothing but poor-quality forage, and they are just so emaciated! They also seem quite small for their age (approximately a year old). 

They seem otherwise healthy though.... RAVENOUS eaters, ok eyelid color, good energy. I'll start gradually introducing alfalfa pellets once I'm sure they've adjusted to our slightly different forage. 

Does anyone see anything that would point to health problems besides near-starvation? Their physiques just looks awful to me. I'm keeping them quarantined from the other goats for now. 

And any idea if they will be stunted for life, or can good food and care at this point bring them back up to their original potential?

I'm going to try and track down their original owners to get some ideas as to their parentage. The guy I bought them from bought them to clear land and had very little idea, except "Nubian". He says they are full sisters. The brown one looks more Nubian (in the ears and nose) than the blond... do full sisters usually look so different? 

I will update this thread in a few months, hopefully with photos of much fatter goats!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Oh my gosh! So sweet!

They are really thin, I'd treat for cocci, if you can get their weights I have some baycox you can use. Its a one dose treatment.

They might be stunted for life, so I'd keep the bucks small for breeding just in case. I'm keeping that polled bucking of Myra so we'll have him as much as we need him. lol

I'm excited for you, they have great potential and I know you'll get some weight on them in no time!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

The blond one looks like some of the goats I've seen from Pat King in Waimea (only hers are healthy and full sized she's awesome). Saanen/boer mixes. She also has some nubian gals. Thats where I would start.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks, Dayna! Yeah, they are super cute. I couldn't resist. 

I think I will get it together and actually send in fecals, make sure I know what I'm dealing with. I'll start herbal wormer in the meantime, can't hurt, and can only help, and we'll see from the fecals if they need something stronger.

That's great you are keeping Myra's buckling! I will definitely be asking to lease him, down the line. A polled Nigerian/ Nubian buck is a pretty handy thing to have! I'm sure you'll get plenty of takers on him if you hire him out.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Great you rescued them. Looks like they need a good worming and I would do coccidia treatment.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

They're lovely little gals and should come round nicely with good grub and attention. Full sisters can look quite different, even down to ears and facial profile. I cross Alpines and Nubians and get some very different ears among siblings. 

Don't worry too much about them being stunted. At only one year they have lots of time to grow and you may end up very surprised by how well they catch up with proper feeding and parasite control.


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## Crazy4Goats (Jul 18, 2015)

Adorable!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks, everyone. I will get parasites checked out asap. I wouldn't be surprised if they are full of worms... unlike my other, somewhat spoiled goats, these ones will eat right off the ground, and since they were on tethers before "keeping weeds down" I'm sure they spent a lot of time eating close to the ground, making parasite problems worse. 

Another question, I've seen the blond one trip and fall down 2 or 3 times in the 36 hours I've had her, always when the terrain is very rough and she's moving kind of fast, but still it concerns me... not exactly normal goat behavior. She is a little smaller, a little thinner, with a rougher, fuzzier coat, and generally seems slightly less healthy than her sister; just a bit less alert and energetic. 

Her feet are overgrown, but don't seem to be in a painful way. Maybe the overgrown hooves are just making her a bit clumsy, but I don't like the way her front legs collapse when she trips. She just looks so pitiful. I will work on her hooves tomorrow (didn't want to stress them out trimming right away), but if this is caused by some kind of weakness in her legs, would this be a sign of some mineral deficiency, or illness? I remember reading about weak kids being a sign of some deficiency, so just wondering. They are going to town on the loose minerals. Probably a half cup gone between the two of them since I had them. I have Selenium and E Gel, and also injectable B Complex. 

Any insights on this? I'm hoping she is just a bit weak, and will get stronger with time and food, but I don't want to overlook something that I can treat for. 

I gave them each a handful of alfalfa pellets today, which I will gradually increase, and am easing them into better-quality forage as well. Their bellies are looking more full and healthy today, though they are still little bags of bones.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yikes I was on here looking for solutions to my heavy milkers weight loss and I thought she looked bad. These are skinnier than that for sure.

I was going to say, if the blonde one is tripping over I would drench them immediately because that is a possible alarm call for barbers pole, which can kill rapidly, but you say their eyelid colour is good? in which case it is almost certainly not worms to that degree.

Even so to be honest with a new acquisition, I will always drench them anyway, and a skinny goat I will always drench anyway.

With these, if I got the same goats today, they would have their mectin injection within the first evening they arrived home, in a small yard, I would pick up all poop, and keep doing that until after their follow up drench 14 days later. Then they could go out to the goat pasture. (In the meantime I would be bringing their feed to them, and that would include tree branches etc)

Make sure that Fecal includes Cocci.

I would also be giving them some probiotic (possibly capsules, yoghurt or kefir), some Slippery Elm, and a couple of good comfrey leaves each twice daily. (Or lots of comfrey if I had it).

I would give them their selenium and cobalt shots and copper bolus (but for you that would depend on the needs of your area), and give them a good loose mineral.

When they are starting on feed, I would start them with a high-protein and fat type, in NZ we have a type of horse feed called "Rapid Gain", it is a sweet feed type, rolled grains and some pellets with a little molasses, and it is 20% protein and 4% fat. I usually start a skinny goat with a handful of that, (safer to do a small taste twice daily then one bigger feed to start with) increasing gradually until it is about half of what I would feed them in total, and then start mixing a little normal goat feed into it until they are on a full ration, half Rapid Gain, half normal goat feed. I often add a little extra vege oil in for the first week or so if they are very skinny.

Hopefully by the time you have them on that full ration, half and half, they will be showing definite improvement in their weight and coat, probably well on the way back to normal, and you can then start replacing their rapid gain with goat feed, bit by bit, until they are back on goat feed only, and can catch up on their last bit of weight on normal rations.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

OMGoodness they are skinny  They are lucky girls to have you! Hopefully good worming, some supplements and good feed will get them back on track.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks, everyone! 

I've had them for 5 days now, and I think they are already looking a bit better. I have not seen the blonde one stumble and fall since the 2nd day I had them. And maybe I'm just getting used to them, but their bones seem less sharp when I pet them. I could feel every part of every vertebrae before! They are also seem alert and energetic, jockeying for position and basically getting underfoot when I bring their feed bowls. 

I gave them both selenium gel and probios, and they have been getting herbal wormer from day 1. I am going to bring fecals in to the vet tomorrow if I can (have been in the middle of moving, and haven't gotten to do it yet) and I will definitely give them chemical worming and/or cocci treatment if needed. I'll give them each a copper bolus tomorrow... turns out they both love bananas, so should be easy to tuck one into a piece of banana. 

I've worked them up to 2 handfuls (1 cup, maybe?) of alfalfa pellets each, twice a day, with a tiny bit of oats, and a sprinkling of kelp. I also worked them up to as much high-quality cut forage as they care to eat (higher-protein plants, like albizia and pigeon peas), and most days I let them out for a bit of supervised free-range, so they can pick and choose what they want to eat. It's interesting to watch them devour plants that my other goats always ignored, and ignore the ones that my others love. I guess they know what they need; maybe when they are less deficient, their tastes will change. They have nice, round bellies now, which makes me happy, but I know that mostly from being full, not true weight gain. 

The blond ones ears look all bitten up... bumps under the fur, and a few hairless, pink areas. Would that be mites? The brown one's ears are totally fine, and the brown one is also the healthier-looking one- just a tiny bit bigger, slightly less emaciated, and even a little shiny-coated, where the blond one's goat is dull and fuzzy.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I'd say food, loose mineral and copper should be good. Use Ivomec SQ @ 1cc per 40# for three treatments each ten days apart for mites.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Keep up the good work! I bet they are going to be so gorgeous when the fishtails are gone and they reach a healthy weight!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

I've had these 2 girls for exactly 2 weeks now. They are still very thin, but I think they are looking much better. It might not show as much in the photos, but when I pet them is when I really notice the difference; no more sharp, bony edges! 

Their behavior is changing too. The first week I had them, they never made a single sound, like totally mute, and they never ran or trotted. They are so bright and curious now, and run to me with their ears flapping, maaing softly. I am sure a time will come that I will miss that muteness, but right now I'm just glad they are so alive. It has been so rewarding to watch them bouncing back.

They're up to 2 cups alfalfa pellets each, once or twice a day (I am living at a different property right now, so sometimes only feed once a day), a tablespoon of BOSS, and all the high-quality, high-protein forage they can eat. I am going to buy some grain on my next town trip, and start introducing that as well. 

They still have a ways to go, and then they have to GROW as well, since they are small for their age. I've decided they probably originally came from the local dairy, which would make them half Nubian, half Sannen/ Alpine mix, and about 10 months old. I measure their heart-girths a few days ago, and got 62 lbs and 70lbs; not sure how accurate the heart-girth method is, but I wish I had done it when I first got them, just to see the progress.

Still have to treat those mites, so excuse the ears on the blond one. Also need to work on their hooves. They're not awful, just long in the toe. 

The brown one seems to be coming along faster than the blond one, but then, she was the healthier one to begin with. She seems to have a much larger rumen. After a full day of eating, the brown one has a HUGE belly, whereas the blonde one has a belly, just not so much. Any advice about this?

I will be treating both for cocci in the next few days, and will probably give them Ivomec Plus Injectable for the mites, which should take care of internal worms as well. Their eyelids look ok, but I think it is probably best to worm them this time anyway, just to give them the best start possible. Open to advice on this as well! I haven't been able to get fecals for them; turns out the vet needs quite a large sample, collected from different times of the day (in order to be accurate for cocci), and I just haven't had the time to follow them around for 2 days with baggies.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Since it has been so long they haven't seen good food. I would buy a bag of whole oats to begin with. They have the fat and carbs they need but, also have the bran and bulk that will help them digest it well. By product feeds are harder on the system... Take more energy to digest. The super high protein can also cause them to eat less and the sugar can slow down the rumen.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

goathiker said:


> Since it has been so long they haven't seen good food. I would buy a bag of whole oats to begin with. They have the fat and carbs they need but, also have the bran and bulk that will help them digest it well. By product feeds are harder on the system... Take more energy to digest. The super high protein can also cause them to eat less and the sugar can slow down the rumen.


That is good to know! I was going to buy whole oats, but not based on any scientific knowledge, just my general hippy dippy "whole-foods are better" outlook 

Would the processed stuff (like Purina Goat Chow) be better for them later on, to help them grow? Would love to stick with more natural, non-GMO food, but I do want to make sure they get what they need to reach their potential, and since they are not producing milk for my family, I can be a little bit flexible on the natural and non-GMO thing.

My alfalfa pellets are 15% protein, so that seems pretty good to me... but I am a newbie and unfortunately don't have a very scientific mind. I guess when you add oats, and forage of unknown quantities and qualities, that brings down the overall protein.

I know I can also make my own grain mix, with things like field peas for protein (I have seen threads on here about it), but it's not something I have delved into very deeply thus far. I do plan on soaking grain in the future, but that is a year off, when my living situation changes.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't use any processed foods for many reasons. Purina I won't buy from as a company. The Purina plant in my area treats it's workers badly and doesn't follow safety laws for the workers. 

So, 2 cups whole oats, 1/4 cup split peas, 1/4 cup BOSS gives you a nice 14% protein 6% fat mix. Later you could add barley to replace some of the oats but, not now, they need more bran than barley gives right now.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow, even though they still have a ways to go, the progress is VERY visible! You're doing a great job with them!!!!!!!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

goathiker said:


> I don't use any processed foods for many reasons. Purina I won't buy from as a company. The Purina plant in my area treats it's workers badly and doesn't follow safety laws for the workers.
> 
> So, 2 cups whole oats, 1/4 cup split peas, 1/4 cup BOSS gives you a nice 14% protein 6% fat mix. Later you could add barley to replace some of the oats but, not now, they need more bran than barley gives right now.


Thank you! I'd definitely prefer to do something like this. So, for down the road, split peas are just like the ones from the grocery store (just regular, green split peas), and you can feed them dry, unsoaked? I know I could get split peas in bulk through our co-op, if the feed store doesn't have them.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

groovyoldlady said:


> Wow, even though they still have a ways to go, the progress is VERY visible! You're doing a great job with them!!!!!!!


Thank you; I was thinking it was visible, but wasn't sure! The guy I got them from said he only had them for a few months, so I think maybe they were taken care of better before then, and the near-starvation only started with him (he wasn't a bad guy, just didn't know any better). So I might have had a better foundation to start with than I originally thought.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

lilaalil said:


> Thank you! I'd definitely prefer to do something like this. So, for down the road, split peas are just like the ones from the grocery store (just regular, green split peas), and you can feed them dry, unsoaked? I know I could get split peas in bulk through our co-op, if the feed store doesn't have them.


Yep, just regular split peas, dry and unsoaked. I get mine from the grocery store bulk bin :lol:

Some goats are not able to handle that amount so, start with the oats before adding the peas and work the peas up a tablespoon at a time to see if they have a limit.

If you want to look around and see what is available to you I'd be happy to help you with a mix that's balanced and gives the vitamins they need.

Oh, and don't dis forage too much. The natural forage here has many good points. Thistles are 22% protein, blackberries are high in calcium, elderberry is high in vitamins and antitoxins, hawthorne for the heart, roses for vit C, mint for the tummy, nettles for general health... Many good things out there.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Great job so far, I see improvement!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

goathiker said:


> Yep, just regular split peas, dry and unsoaked. I get mine from the grocery store bulk bin :lol:
> 
> Some goats are not able to handle that amount so, start with the oats before adding the peas and work the peas up a tablespoon at a time to see if they have a limit.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will definitely work them into things very slowly. Will start with a very small amount of oats this coming week, and go from there.

I didn't mean to dis forage  I'm actually a really big fan, and hope to have rotating pastures someday, planted with all kinds of nutritious goodies. We are in Hawaii, so our plant lists are different, and I am still learning what the different plants here have to offer. I cut a lot of tree legumes for protein, but am still figuring out which ones offer a decent amount of calcium, etc.

My dry doe actually got pretty plump on nothing but forage, but that was GOOD forage. The guy that had these goats before me, didn't seem to differentiate. He thought if they had green stuff to eat, no matter what it was, they were fine. Also, he had them tethered for land-clearing, and I don't think he moved them often enough. I have seen other goats in this area do ok on poor-quality forage alone, but they had the space to roam and pick the best parts. These girls, though... I doubt that would have survived another 2 months living the way they were.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good job


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm a big fan of BOSS! It makes such a difference in a goats coat/appearance.. And gets the weight on. Great job!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Had them for 4 weeks now! They're gaining slowly; probably don't look much different than they did last time I updated. I only have them up to a half-cup of oats each; I am being very careful to increase gradually, maybe too careful. I'll bet when they're eating more grain they will gain faster. They're also up to 3 cups alfalfa pellets, a few tablespoons of BOSS, and all the high-quality forage they can eat. According to their heart-girth measurements, the brown one gained about 4 pounds, and the blond one 7 pounds, in the last 2 weeks. Here are a few photos from today.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

They look so much better.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

They are looking much better....I can tell...


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

They look so good! Ashley is super sad. Let me know if you ever want to just keep her. She's been crying since she left your place.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Oh man! Let me know if she doesn't get over it soon! I am such a sucker  She is definitely welcome to come stay again if she doesn't get over it. I think she really enjoyed being top goat. Mine seem to have adjusted to the departure already, but it was less of an adjustment for them, of course.



Dayna said:


> They look so good! Ashley is super sad. Let me know if you ever want to just keep her. She's been crying since she left your place.


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

Good luck with your goats - looks like you have a good helper. The attention from your daughter will help them also. I think they need a lot of love and good food and you will see an amazing difference in a few month. Be sure to post follow up pictures.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

They are looking terrific- and that brown one has an amazing topline!


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

wndngrvr said:


> Good luck with your goats - looks like you have a good helper. The attention from your daughter will help them also. I think they need a lot of love and good food and you will see an amazing difference in a few month. Be sure to post follow up pictures.


Thank you, I think so too. And yes, my daughter "helps" with everything  I think it's really good for her, though.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

groovyoldlady said:


> They are looking terrific- and that brown one has an amazing topline!


Thanks! I know little to nothing about confirmation. We don't have show-goats around here, so just what I've read in passing on this site... I still have no idea what most of the terms mean, but topline is pretty much self-explanatory  The blond one is smoothing out as she gains weight... I wonder if it'll look like her sister's, someday?


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

I was out taking photos today, and just thought I would update. These two are doing great. Very healthy and happy. 

Their heart-girth measurement has not changed a ton, but they have grown! When I first got them, they were so much smaller than my other yearling, that I thought maybe they had some Nigerian in them. I was surprised to notice yesterday that they had almost caught up to her in height! I wish I had thought to measure their heights at the beginning. They're so nice to pet now, no real boniness anywhere. And you should see them racing around the pasture, playing in the early evening. So cute. 

The blond one is still as goofy looking as can be, but she is a sweetheart. If I were a Star Wars fan, I would name her Jar-Jar. 

So now I just want to help them grow as much as possible before I breed them in the fall. For various reasons I haven't been able to give them as much in the way of concentrates the last month or so, but I am now able to get back into that.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

They look GOOD! You've done a great job with them.

I brought my saanens home today to fatten up. They actually look better than the last time we saw them together.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Dayna said:


> They look GOOD! You've done a great job with them.
> 
> I brought my saanens home today to fatten up. They actually look better than the last time we saw them together.


Oh, cool! They are such sweet girls. Wish I could have them here, like we talked about before, but my albizia sources are running low. Most of the ones in the back of our rental house are too huge and close to the house to cut, or I would have a year's worth back there. I may have to start buying hay! Gasp.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

lilaalil said:


> Oh, cool! They are such sweet girls. Wish I could have them here, like we talked about before, but my albizia sources are running low. Most of the ones in the back of our rental house are too huge and close to the house to cut, or I would have a year's worth back there. I may have to start buying hay! Gasp.


I hear ya! I've just resigned myself to buying a bale of hay per week or more.


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## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Dayna said:


> I hear ya! I've just resigned myself to buying a bale of hay per week or more.


Yeah, might just do that myself. Spend the money for a bit, and save my sanity. I bet they would get out into their 1 acre pasture and eat more of the bushes if I weren't providing them with tasty, juicy albizia right in their feeder every day.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Yeah no incentive to go out to eat!


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