# Bump on goats shoulder



## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I found a bump on my goats shoulder while clipping her this morning. It's round, a little bigger than a quarter, firm but I can tell it might be filled with something. I don't give injections there and the last shot she got was on the opposite side. What is this? Don't tell me CL :/ what can I do for it?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Ummm...don't tell you it's CL. Ok I won't. But I wouldn't rule it out either

Carmen, Co-Owner Oleo Acres LLC, Nw Ks


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

It looks like it could be in the right spot for CL  ..... I'd get it tested to be sure.


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## MoKa-Farms (Jun 19, 2013)

It may be CL, get it looked at, but don't rule out other options. Your goat could just have a cyst or something. But seriously, get it looked at, and don't. Freak. Out. :thumbup:


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

Keep an eye on it and if it starts to loose hair, looks like it going to break open, or gets bigger then take it to the vet. They can lance it and see what's inside. If it's CL you don't want to lance it yourself or have it break open because any of the stuff that comes out of it is contagious.

If you haven't had her long the previous owner could have given a shot there.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sadly it may be.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Is there a blood test for it?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Yes. If it is a CL abscess, the pus is more accurate.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I am taking my Other doe to the vet next week should I just bring her with me?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

wildegoats0426 said:


> I am taking my Other doe to the vet next week should I just bring her with me?


If cl the puss is going to be to thick to get out....might be able to if they put her to sleep and go in but I'm not sure so I don't know about taking her to the vet. If its not going to be too much money to let her tag along its up to you. But if you were to ask my honest thought on it I say its cl  that's a very common spot for it.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

wildegoats0426 said:


> I am taking my Other doe to the vet next week should I just bring her with me?


There really isn't much point to taking her to the vet until the hair starts coming off. That is an indication that it is 'ripe' and it can then be lanced, cleaned out, and tested.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm not going to put her to sleep. I can keep her away from the other goat if needed


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

When it is ready to open up, Lance it and save the pus. Then have the pus tested. Until you know the results, you don't know for sure.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Okay thanks! Will this affect her health if it is positive?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/cl-discussion-150100/


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Nice Goatmom, was just going to suggest that thread 

And yes, that is a common CL location. The only place more so is the one under the ear towards the back of the jaw.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

wildegoats0426 said:


> Okay thanks! Will this affect her health if it is positive?


Probably not. There is a slight chance that she could develop abscesses internally, but that is much, much more common in sheep than in goats. I have CL in my herd, I've had no health problems as a result of it, and I've only had one goat that probably - I'm not certain, but I strongly suspect that is what happened - developed abscesses internally in 7 years.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Okay so the bump is starting to look scaley and flaky and I think it's starting to lose hair. It seems a little smaller though


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Only thing to be sure is, to get the goo tested, when ready.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Personally, I would take her into the vet to have it lanced. That way you do not have to worry about pus splattering or missing whatever you have put down to catch it.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm taking her with me this week to the vet and they are going to test it!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

:thumbup: Keep a close eye on it - once the hair starts coming off, it progresses fairly quickly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I hear, it cannot be lanced until it is ready, no sooner.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

You are correct, Pam.


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> And yes, that is a common CL location. The only place more so is the one under the ear towards the back of the jaw.


Echo has a large bump under her right ear....it's firm, but just noticeably barely not quite firm in the center. What's the chances it CL? Would it be best to cull her?


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

And also, how to I find out how to test for it and how much would that cost? (Average, I'm in Ontario, so it might be different)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would have the pus tested when it is ready to burst.


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## Mamaboyd (Oct 10, 2013)

LLNkikos said:


> Echo has a large bump under her right ear....it's firm, but just noticeably barely not quite firm in the center. What's the chances it CL? Would it be best to cull her?


Cl is managable. If your goat doesn't break out more often and they are otherwise healthy, you do not have to cull them. You have to regularily check for signs of new bumps. How big is your herd?


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

Mamaboyd said:


> Cl How big is your herd?


6 does and 1 buck. 
Echo, Ginger and Caelie are new goats. Echo and Ginger came from the same farm.

This is the only lump I've noticed so far....


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Best to have them all blood tested now and again in 6 months. If you cant or dont know how to draw blood, a vet can do it and send it off for you to be tested. Here we dont have CL but if it did ever raise its ugly head, regardless of who, they would leave. IMO its just not something we would be willing to try and manage again. After a decade of dealing with it on the farm I used to work on, there is simply no one animal worth risking all the other ones for.


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## Mamaboyd (Oct 10, 2013)

LLNkikos said:


> And also, how to I find out how to test for it and how much would that cost? (Average, I'm in Ontario, so it might be different)


i would ask your vet, they should be able to tell you how much it costs etc. I am from ontario too so would he interested in what you find out


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## giddyogoat (May 28, 2012)

If it looses hair it will get a soft spot, its going to pop soon after if Cl. I have lanced
several from my initial "local sale" stock only once has it ever returned and that goat found its way to a barbie. 2 people and a little care can lance and rinse this if the worst is the case. Use eye and hand protection and keep your mouth closed to be safe. You cannot draw the puss out with a syringe its too thick. Good Luck


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

LLNkikos said:


> Echo has a large bump under her right ear....it's firm, but just noticeably barely not quite firm in the center. What's the chances it CL? Would it be best to cull her?


The chances are very good it is CL as that is the main area that abscesses develop. Whether you cull or not is up to you, but CL is manageable and only spreads through direct contact with the pus. DO NOT let the abscess burst on your property or you are looking at a long term battle to get it under control.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm torn. I can take her to the vet but I'm not sure if it's ready to be lanced but I really don't want it to bust at my barn while I'm not there and she's out with the others


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Post a picture of the abscess.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Direct contact is usually due to external abscess but they can grow internally in the lungs, liver, inside the udder and other organs. A goat with lung abscesses can pass it on via coughing and or nasal discharge and one with them inside the udder can pass it by leaking milk. Again, not common but still very possible and more so the older they get. Kinda hard to manage it then.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

A registered doe I had purchased got a lump right on that very spot only 6 months after I had brought her home. After a lot of thought I sold her at the auction for butcher. It isn't worth the risk.






a week after this picture it became bald and I knew it would soon burst. I was planning on lancing it myself but like I said didn't want to risk it.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Okay so I drained the abscess. It lost hair and got soft. Well actually I popped it on accident but she was already on tarp and materials ready for draining. Now it has two holes in it and it's forming a third one. I sent it to our university lab yesterday so I should get results Monday. I'm cleaning it real good twice daily as well and taking everything home and burning it!


























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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, that is a big one. Good that you are doing what you are doing.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Just wondering- after the cl abcesses heal, do they leave a large hard scar or is there no evidence to look for that you may be buying a goat that had a previous abcess?


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I wonder that too. That would be good to look for when buying goats in the future. So much stuff came out of it, it's so gross. I'm so anxious for the results 


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## RumHollowBoers (Jan 31, 2014)

I had a young ABGA doeling we bought for a large amount of money come up with a huge abscess.. grapefruit sized on her chest. It is a pain in the butt.. have to isolate and worry about spreading to others.. lanced it and irrigated with iodine etc... sent of to WADDL.. and positive for CL.. kept coming back. and it was multichambered.. so you never really got all of it emptied out.. we ended up just putting her down... very difficult to manage in my opinion.. and I don't want to mess with it..


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Here's another pic. Under the hair on top there is another big hole. This one was full of pus again so I drained it as flushed out with iodine and made her a Tshirt








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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Good job.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Nice work!


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

the black is dried blood. This was this morning. I'm not getting anymore pus our just flushing with iodine still

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Looking like it is working.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I think so too. Will the whole thing scab over when it's healed?


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

No. It will heal up and regrow hair. You will always be able to feel the scar, but it usually is not visible. Not all of my girls have CL but, of the ones who I know have developed abscesses, I cannot think of a single one whose healed abscess stands out.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Is that when you put them back with the others when the hair regrows? 


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

So Echo's lump opened with one hole. The contents look exactly like that. It's gotten smaller, and now bloody crud and greenish thick pus is coming out. I can see into the hole. Does CL normally do that?

Ok, so I have a couple questions: 
-What the change of my other goats coming down with it?
-*How serious do I get about it?*
-How do I ethically deal with her? Can I send her to a sale barn, or a slaughter house, or bury her? What?

Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There is a really good thread on CL. If you do a search, you should be able to find it.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Serious enough to do a LOT of reading and research and make a decision from there. Cl is contagious and if the abscess burst in the same area as your others,they have been exposed and so has your property.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

CL is extremely serious. Here is the link to the discussion about it. I know its long but if you are serious about learning about CL and how to deal with it, read through all of it.

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/cl-discussion-150100/?highlight=Caseous+Lymphadenitis


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

wildegoats0426 said:


> Is that when you put them back with the others when the hair regrows?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


No, I re-introduce when the abscess has healed over.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

LLNkikos said:


> So Echo's lump opened with one hole. The contents look exactly like that. It's gotten smaller, and now bloody crud and greenish thick pus is coming out. I can see into the hole. Does CL normally do that?
> 
> Ok, so I have a couple questions:
> -What the change of my other goats coming down with it?
> ...


Yes, they do. If you did not isolate Echo and allowed the abscess to burst on your property the chances are very good your other goats will develop CL. All it takes is for them to have a cut, scrape, or raw place and come into direct contact with the pus.

I would suggest you get very serious about it. CL bacteria can live in the soil for something like 5 years. Unless you get it under control, test your remaining goats, and keep her isolated from the main herd chances are very high you will not be making any private treaty sales to anyone.

That is up to you. I never, ever sell private treaty without full disclosure. I do sell my culls through the sale barn without disclosing. Yes, you can also send her to slaughter. CL does not affect the meat if it is external.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

Which vaccine from Jeffers do I get? 


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

The abscess today. It so much smaller and nothing is coming out anymore

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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

wildegoats0426 said:


> Which vaccine from Jeffers do I get?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Personally, I will not use any of the vaccines made for sheep - I've read too many horror stories about injection site reactions, and they are only 85% effective. Even Colorado Serum - the manufacturer of Case Bac and Caseous D-T does not recommend using either one of them on goats. There is also the problem that vaccinating a goat that already has CL will do nothing, and intensifies any reaction. The 3rd vaccine - CL Bacterin - is too new to have much data compiled yet. It only came out Spring of 2013, I believe. It is made by Texas Vet Labs and is labeled for goats. If I were you, I would have a long talk with my vet, call Texas Vet Labs and talk to them, and call a couple of good veterinary teaching hospitals before I made the decision to vaccinate.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I talked a little with the guy who was in on the research for the new goat vaccine. I'm just not sure yet. I really would hate for my prize doe to get it


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

There is no reasonable management of CL without separation.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Assuming you quarantined the doe with the abscess, the easiest way to prevent your show goat from contracting CL is to either cull her or run two herds - one that have developed abscesses and one that have not. Never allow them to come into direct contact with each other.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm not culling this one either she's also my good show doe and she's great. I'll just have to figure it out. Thanks


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

wildegoats0426 said:


> I'm not culling this one either she's also my good show doe and she's great. I'll just have to figure it out. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


If you get to a show with ANY signs of CL on your goat, you will be sent home immediately. You need to do a search and see what your breed association will do if they find out you have CL in your herd. That might make a difference on what your decision is....


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I showed her last weekend with no problems. A friend of mine has gotten them and her goats have had 1 abscess ever. They are In the same association and don't have problems showing 


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Did you get the pus tested? Is it CL for sure?


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm on the phone with the lab as I type 


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

It was positive. 


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Just because you can, doesnt mean you should. Its unethical to take a positive animal to a show. Not so much say a one day show where you keep your animals in your own trailer. But once you put that animal in next to other peoples animals. Say at a fair or a show that has pens set up, you are risking the health of their animals over a prize or premium that means nothing in comparison.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I didn't know what it was or that it was positive when I took her to a show. Trust me our show days are over, my animals health is more important than a ribbon. I care about mine and others and would not ever risk their health just for a prize.. 


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

That is too bad that she is positive. Good for you, that certainly is a good moral decision you made to decide not to show her. 
She is a beautiful doe!


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

So sorry it was positive. Hopefully you will be lucky and she never has another abcess, if you keep her.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm going to keep her but definitely keep and eye on her at all times. Another breeder I used for wethers said she Injects draxxin when a knot appears. I want to blood test my other doe. Who would I send that to? 


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

I would send the blood to WADDL.. Not sure if a university near you would test it for you.. Could try that... My university doesn't.. They only do it for vets.. So it would cost me 10x more then to just send it to WADDL.. So I'd search around a bit


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

it depends, Some goats are prone to getting bumps after they get shots, like my goat. or i could be something bad I would get it checked


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

How long does it take for the lump to grow hair again?
(After it's cleaned out and healed up)


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

That's what I'm wondering too mine hasn't started growing hair again 


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

any idea on what the marble sized knot could be? It's hard

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I wonder if another abscess is forming.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

I still have her isolated. It's been there about a week, not smaller but not bigger. It's rock solid 


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I would almost say another abcess too.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

That's what it's looking like.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

LLNkikos said:


> How long does it take for the lump to grow hair again?
> (After it's cleaned out and healed up)


If memory serves, a week or two.


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## samba1 (Jan 2, 2014)

kccjer said:


> I would almost say another abcess too.


has this abcess poped yet? Some goats just continualy get them....


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

No it's rock solid


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## justspry (Feb 5, 2014)

Maybe scar tissue ?


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

That's kinda what I'm thinking. Not sure. I'm watching it closely 


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## samba1 (Jan 2, 2014)

Maby not all of the abcess came out when u wanted to, or it could have been a pocketed abcess and that part was not know or seen, and then it grew to the size it is now.


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## wildegoats0426 (Aug 30, 2013)

So would it be contagious now? I just don't know if she can go back 


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## samba1 (Jan 2, 2014)

I would not put her back until this has cleared up too..... you do not want to risk it spreading..... better to be safe than sorry


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