# Dehorning wire saw



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Hey every we bought a registered Nigerian dwarf buck his name is Dusty and he's about 6 months old. 

The lady we bought him from told us he has not disbudded properly and he has more than just the typical scurs growing that fall off. They are growing at weird angle and we will need to cut them off. 
She told us to buy a dehorning wire saw and cut the horns off. 

Have any of you guys used a dehorning wire saw? How far do I need to cut down? What the dangers if I hit a vein?


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Some of my dairy bucks have scurs that tend to grow into the head. I got wire survival saws at Walmart in the camping section. 

Another kind are obstetrical saws that are used to cut up dead unborn calves (usually). Any livestock supply place would sell them. PBS, Jeffers, etc. are the online livestock supply places I use. 

They are thin wire (piano wire) that have a ring or small handle on each end to saw back and forth and they cut quite well. Pull with steady pressure, but not super hard or the wire will break. The Walmart ones are only a few dollars. I got a bunch! The first time we broke 4 on one buck. Hubby pulled too hard. 

You have to totally immobilize your goat's head.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Goats Rock said:


> Some of my dairy bucks have scurs that tend to grow into the head. I got wire survival saws at Walmart in the camping section.
> 
> Another kind are obstetrical saws that are used to cut up dead unborn calves (usually). Any livestock supply place would sell them. PBS, Jeffers, etc. are the online livestock supply places I use.
> 
> ...


Ok I found a dehorning wire saw on eBay with handles and 40 feet of wire for $20. My real concern is making the goat bleed. Did your goat bleed? Do I just remove the very tip of the scur?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It will depend on the horn on how much blood but you will probably get some blood. My first disbudding was not good! The does horn still looked like a horn just grew slower and went down and eventually against her face. I don't use wire saws, I tried it once on a cow I had and once it hit blood it froze up. I was already nervous about doing it and that just made it worse. Anyways on the cow and the goat I used tree loppers. I swore that goats horn was going to bleed like crazy so I had my disbudding iron heater and a bunch of flour. It bled but hardly!! I was shocked.
For me I took the horn right off on both of them. I wanted it over and done with and not have to worry about again for at least a few years. You can take little by little off if you want but since he is a buck always pestering him might make him a bit mean. My doe was ticked at me for a few days then she was over it!


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> It will depend on the horn on how much blood but you will probably get some blood. My first disbudding was not good! The does horn still looked like a horn just grew slower and went down and eventually against her face. I don't use wire saws, I tried it once on a cow I had and once it hit blood it froze up. I was already nervous about doing it and that just made it worse. Anyways on the cow and the goat I used tree loppers. I swore that goats horn was going to bleed like crazy so I had my disbudding iron heater and a bunch of flour. It bled but hardly!! I was shocked.
> For me I took the horn right off on both of them. I wanted it over and done with and not have to worry about again for at least a few years. You can take little by little off if you want but since he is a buck always pestering him might make him a bit mean. My doe was ticked at me for a few days then she was over it!


The lady we bought our buck from said that a dehorning wire saw will heat up as you cut it off and cauturize the wound. Not sure if that is true or not. So I might be better off using tree trimmers?


----------



## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Cauterization is good for a wound, it applies heat and helps to stop the bleeding. I do use hoof trimmers on my wether's scurs, but they are small and loose. You do have to be careful, whatever you do, to not cut too far back and cause a lot of bleeding.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigz48877 said:


> The lady we bought our buck from said that a dehorning wire saw will heat up as you cut it off and cauturize the wound. Not sure if that is true or not. So I might be better off using tree trimmers?


That's why I tried the saw with that cow I was told that it would burn it as it cut as well. You can still use the saw I would just have the loppers close by just in case. That was such a mess with that poor cow and I won't try it again but there are people that have had luck. Maybe hers was just too big around? I don't really know


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

bigz48877 said:


> The lady we bought our buck from said that a dehorning wire saw will heat up as you cut it off and cauturize the wound. Not sure if that is true or not. So I might be better off using tree trimmers?


Hi again Big Z. So glad to hear you found a good buck.

Yeah, scurs can put you on the "horns of a dilemma" (sorry, could not resist)

My question to the person you bought from would be...If it was so easy/simple to deal with, why did you not deal with it before you sold him to me?

Goat horns are not simple/easy, and goat scurs are less so. Might I suggest you consult your vet? You don't have to follow his advice, but it would be good to know what it is, since he can see the scurs (in detail, up close) and we can not.

Good luck, and as always, we are here for you.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

We only cut back as far as we can, a little at a time until we see a little blood. But, the wire did seem to cauterize it. (And I had the disbudder ready!) 

I've never tried to cut back to the head.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Well the dehorning wire saw came in mail and we trimmed off Dustys scurs. Luckily there was no blood at tips so we just cut the tips off. 

How long does it usually take for them to grow back?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigz48877 said:


> Well the dehorning wire saw came in mail and we trimmed off Dustys scurs. Luckily there was no blood at tips so we just cut the tips off.
> 
> How long does it usually take for them to grow back?


It's going to totally depend on the goat. Some horns grow faster then others, I think it has to do with feed/ nutrition but that's another topic for another time lol


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> It's going to totally depend on the goat. Some horns grow faster then others, I think it has to do with feed/ nutrition but that's another topic for another time lol


Ok. I'm hoping next time he breaks them off himself next time head butting other goats. Lol


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Horns grow from the base, not the tips. So the horns will continue to get bigger, but those tips will stay the shape you cut them. As the horn grows, you'll be able to cut more off the tips.

Just to be absolutely clear if you are uncertain what those tips will do.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If they are small enough you think he can bust them off fighting you should be able remove the whole thing with very little blood especially if they wiggle. He’s probably not overly thrilled with you right now so I wouldn’t do it now but maybe once/ if it gets closer to growing into him again.
Let me see if I can find a pic of one of my does that just lost a scur on her own and I honestly didn’t even notice at first! When I did there was just a few drops of dried blood


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

This is a few years old so it ended up curving down more but the width pretty much stayed the same. That also might give you a idea on horn growth, the picture was taken roughly 2 years ago.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> If they are small enough you think he can bust them off fighting you should be able remove the whole thing with very little blood especially if they wiggle. He's probably not overly thrilled with you right now so I wouldn't do it now but maybe once/ if it gets closer to growing into him again.
> Let me see if I can find a pic of one of my does that just lost a scur on her own and I honestly didn't even notice at first! When I did there was just a few drops of dried blood


Yeah I think next time they need to be trimmed I will trim closer to his head. I was real nervous. Now that I now there is blood flowing in them I will trim closer.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

mariarose said:


> Horns grow from the base, not the tips. So the horns will continue to get bigger, but those tips will stay the shape you cut them. As the horn grows, you'll be able to cut more off the tips.
> 
> Just to be absolutely clear if you are uncertain what those tips will do.


I hope the scurs start growing away from his head now. Then maybe he bust them off fighting on his own..


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

bigz48877 said:


> Yeah I think next time they need to be trimmed I will trim closer to his head. I was real nervous. Now that I now there is blood flowing in them I will trim closer.


There still most likely will have some blood in them all the way down by the head, just depending on the scur on how much. Scurs are really weird. They are not like a horn where you KNOW there is going to be this big section that will bleed like crazy, although pretty much every scur still has way less blood then a normal horn. Like that half horn half scur I mentioned, I was really expecting a bloody mess and once it was done I was like wow! Then looked at all my blood stopping supplies and thought that was a total over kill.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Ok I know this is a old thread but I need to bring it back up. 

We had to trim our buck Dustys scurs again because they continued to grow back towards his eyes. 

It's a real pain in the butt to do and I don't want to do it every 3 months. 

Should I take him to a vet and have full dehorning done?

Anyone on this site ever had a adult goat dewormed before? 

Any advice?


----------



## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

From all that i have read on doin this(NO experience in it myself) it is very dangerous for the goat and a lot of vets wont do it. There is a long healing period where the goat must be kept nearly pristine clean, the goat will have open cavities the rest of its life that can cause many problems in itself are just a few negatives. But those two would be my top two reasons for never doin that to one.

Do you not trim his hooves? Cause the trimmin could be done when he has his pedicure. I think it was @mariella has banded horns or scurs recently? She may have info that may help doin that for your guy. A vet may be more inclined to bandin instead of cuttin them off.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Yes we trim his hooves ourselves. 

It's just getting to be a pain in the butt holding/immobilizing his head to trim the scurs. 

Would a electric sawzall be faster? My issue is the wire saw takes a lot of time and he doesn't like it.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

How big is the scur (sorry if you mentioned it before it just sent me to the last time I commented). I’ve always used tree loppers, it’s always one fast snip (big snip on big scurs) throw a little flour on it and go on. But this is also a buck and he might get to the point he starts getting really upset at you over this. I second the banding. I don’t think there’s going to be a very big vein (or whatever it’s called in a horn) because it’s a scur but it’s the knocking out part that I don’t trust. There’s a few topics on here on banding horns if you search for it. It really doesn’t sound that bad. You get ladicane (so spelled wrong I know) and numb around the horn, cut the skin just below where the horn starts to come out and then put a band on. I have NOT done it myself but it doesn’t sound bad and am willing to do it


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

We've had a broken horn surgically removed from an adult goat. It was a long, painful, involved surgery but the recovery was actually pretty uneventful. I changed the bandage every day and kept it clean and fly-free. The hole in the head closed over within about two weeks, and within six weeks there was hair growing over the area and you'd never know that half the goat's skull had been exposed. 

Banding is painful too but usually less traumatic and less risk of infection. However, it's not always possible on scurs depending on how they're formed. I have some bucks with nasty scurs and you'd never get a band around them, let alone get it to stay on something that shape. But other people have banded scurs very successfully. 

Unfortunately, neither method is guaranteed to work permanently. I think it mostly depends on how well it's done. The vet who removed our goat's horn did an excellent job, but I've heard other stories from both banding and surgery where everything grew back a year later. Not a good scenario!


----------



## mariella (Feb 23, 2017)

Yep I band the horns of my goats but I don't recall posting about it :/. But if you are looking to remove the horns permanently the I would surgically removed them. I like my goats with some horn(And they are always ugly) so banding is better for me. If you choose to band just know they will get them stuck and rip off the horn and It will be VERY bloody.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)




----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

This photo was taken shortly after trimming. 
The scurs are like a "U shape" and grow out directly towards his eyes when they grow out. 
I'm not sure if tree loppers would would on these scurs.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

Jessica84 said:


> How big is the scur (sorry if you mentioned it before it just sent me to the last time I commented). I've always used tree loppers, it's always one fast snip (big snip on big scurs) throw a little flour on it and go on. But this is also a buck and he might get to the point he starts getting really upset at you over this. I second the banding. I don't think there's going to be a very big vein (or whatever it's called in a horn) because it's a scur but it's the knocking out part that I don't trust. There's a few topics on here on banding horns if you search for it. It really doesn't sound that bad. You get ladicane (so spelled wrong I know) and numb around the horn, cut the skin just below where the horn starts to come out and then put a band on. I have NOT done it myself but it doesn't sound bad and am willing to do it


Well Dusty's has a scur growing close to his eye again. We are going to try the tree loppers this time.


----------



## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I tried a wire saw...it was kind of a joke on a big horn, kept getting bound up in it. I resorted to using an angle grinder with a thin blade - it was fast and efficient, just be careful if you use them because they're obviously sharp.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

ISmellLikeGoats said:


> I tried a wire saw...it was kind of a joke on a big horn, kept getting bound up in it. I resorted to using an angle grinder with a thin blade - it was fast and efficient, just be careful if you use them because they're obviously sharp.


Great idea! I wish I would have saw your post sooner. We tried tree loppers today and his scur ended up breaking off. He bled bad.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)




----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

We tried tree loppers today and his scur ended up breaking off. The cut down the middle is from a previous trimming a couple months ago(we keep his old scurs)

It bled alot but he's doing ok. Will scur grow back the same or differently? We're going to do the the angle grinder method next time.


----------



## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

The wire saw is an acquired talent. One I don't have, but DH does well with! A scur will continue to grow as the roots of the horn are actually part of the top of the head.


----------



## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I just use horse hoof nippers. The scurs on my buck tend to grow back the same way.


----------



## bigz48877 (Oct 18, 2016)

The scur that fell off is really strange looking. It looks almost like a cap that goes over the horn bud


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That’s what it looks like to me. It’s going to keep coming back though unless you go really down deep and get it which I wouldn’t do with just loppers or a saw. If you want to try and get it totally gone for good search on here about banding horns. Basically it’s going to need to go down below the hairline and really get the whole thing which is why people either go to the vet and have the animal knocked out and cut off or they numb it and put a band on. I personally haven’t gotten the guts to try that but there are people on here who have


----------

