# Judging on young boer doe



## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Hey y'all! Hope no one minds me posting this on here, but I have a 4 month old boer doe that I am currently showing in 4H/FFA market shows, at her first show she got 7 place out of about 10 goats :/.... Yep not so good! So I want some feed back from y'all on any thing I can do to help her get a better placing. She weighed in at 53 lbs. she is slightly over conditioned (in other words FAT) but we are working on try to cut down her belly. I have small shows that I attend to from now to November, my state fair show is in October, and my county fair show is in November. I have a show Saturday, so I'll let y'all know on how she did!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

This picture was before we shaved her, I'll get a picture of her tomorrow so you can see her the way she'll look to the judge


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know anything about prepping commercial does, but I'd think it must be similar to market wethers? What kind of exercise are you doing with her? I'd probably not cut back her feed, she's going to need it in order to make muscle. Make sure the feeder is up where she REALLY had to reach for it. For my kids market wethers, they hang the feeders on pallets, and the wethers jump up with their front feet to reach the feeder, it's much higher than a cinder block and they are really flexing those butt/leg muscles. 
I mentioned in the other post about walking them on their hind legs every other day for about 5-10 minutes. That's what my kids generally do, and if they aren't doing that, then they've been taking them back in the woods, and letting them run back to the barn. Not gruesome training, but IMO a little goes a long way. 

Do you have things for this doe to jump on/play on? 

She's a pretty doe, and doesn't look fat to me, even with the hair. She looks healthy. Looks like she just needs that health turned into a little more muscle


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

She doesn't look fat. I'd try getting her some exercise but I don't think she looks really fat. Keep in mind since she's a doe she'll be more conditioned than a wether. However exercise will help. I wouldn't cut her feed much though. At 53lbs she should still be growing and I wouldn't want to hinder that but cutting her feed.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

This photo was took about 2 weeks ago,she has got a little bit more of a belly since then, I'll take a photo of her tomorrow to show more recent , this was the only one I had on my phone.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

We run her in short burst of running for about a mile-2 every night, she is show in market shows like the weathers, they just have them in separate weight classes.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

We feed her about 4 cups of a 18% protein feed once a day, she eats separately from our other goats, and our ag teacher told us too feed as much feed as she'll eat and have some left over, so that's what we are doing.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Dani or someone else more knowledge can correct me if I am wrong 
But I am thinking I'd be worrying less about her belly, and more into turning it into muscle/building onto her butt muscle. I agree, most commercial does I've seen at the shows have had more conditioning than a wether. 

Maybe don't run her so much every day, and find other ways of exercising her - climbing, jumping, pulling a tire as I've seen people mention on the forum from time to time.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Yes that is how it usually is, we are getting some one to build a chariot for us to pull on our 4 wheeler so they can gain the muscle in their backend , however for some reason where I live (I. Georgia) most judge really dislike overweight goats, it depends on the judge. My friend had a very nice doe, but she was overweight, and at our state show she goat last in her class, but at the next show she got 1 in her class, so I never know what these judges are thinking down here!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

this was at her show last Saturday. I do notice in this picture that I should have stretched her out more to get rid of that dip in her back.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Despite what judges say, I think your doe is lovely, and I love that last pic of her with all her fuzzy baby hair shaved off it makes her look more mature, she's gorgeous!  Your going to have fun breeding her when she is older.

Do you not brace the commercial does? I'd definitely set her up so she doesn't have that dip.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

We do brace, I just didn't brace in this photo, I am going to try to brace her more at my show Saturday, but it's just a little hard with her because she's a little short for me, and Thank you!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

She looks better then I though she ever would, when she was born her breeder called us up and told us that he had a doe born with some coloration like we had wanted, so we raced over there to go check her out.when we got there she looked horrible, her front legs were bowed in and she was very odd shaped. I decided I didn't want her, but my mom fell in love with her markings, so she told him that we will be back in 2 weeks to look at her again. So 2 weeks later we were back, and I didn't recognize her, she looked awesome for just 2 weeks old, she has a very wide chest, and great muscle . so we think that her legs were just so tiny that they couldn't handle the weight, but once they got stronger they straightened up. When we saw her the second time she was terrified of people, so I was worked of how she would react to being a show goat. But her breeder started petting her and giving her treats, so when we got her at 21/2 months old she was as sweet as she could be! Well was sweet until last Friday when we got her scrapie tagged and state tagged, now she's mad at us and doesn't want to be pet, but I think with a little loving she'll be a sweetheart again!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Yep the tagging part is no fun! When I have to scrapie tag our kids, I don't leave as much creep feed out, so they are a bit hungry, we fill the feeder, tag them and send them on their way so they seem to sort of 'forget' about it. Only one of the kids this year was skittish afterward, but he was fine the next day. Sometimes they just don't handle stuff like that well. But we tag them before we wean them.

Honestly, we never judge a baby until they are older. When they are born, their legs are usually all over the place, and they are molded to how they were in the womb. So I think it's best to give them time, especially those bow legged babies


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

The guy had another little doe born a few weeks after jasmine ( the doe) was born, we almost got her because she was a red one with one white leg, but we decided against her because the judged down hair rant fond of paints, so we decided that jasmine was the goat to get cause she looks like a traditional with a saddle and red stockings


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I love paints  We're going to breed to a paint buck that my son is showing. The paint buck is out of a red doe and black headed traditional buck, so I am hopeful! We didn't get ANY color this year, even from a spotted doe that was full of color on both parents! The traditional buck we used definitely dominated. We have a paint doe, but she's mostly red, doesn't have much white, just enough to say she's a paint.
We're getting excited as we'll start breeding in about a month. We had a lovely paint doe back in 2012, but she wasn't clean teated, broke my heart because she was sooo pretty!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

I just took these pictures of her, we have cut back her feed slightly and exercised her mor so now IMO she looks great!i can't wait till Saturday!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

The breeder of her was so excited, she was his first paint in 6 years! Both her parents, great grandparents were traditional, but his oldest doe, is a paint, so that's where she got her markings from


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## JT3 (May 1, 2011)

The block is a good idea...but I would make it higher.

As a judge this is what comes to mind when I look at the goat...keep in mind that I haven;t gotten my hands on her which is where judges REALLY get their placings from...a blind man should be able to judge a market class.

I think she is really long bodied and you need to show that off any chance you get. She has a bit of a weak spot behind her shoulders but notice how when you elevate her feet she levels out in her topline...so keep her elevated as much as you can. If she's a bit short legged or you cant hold her up for that amount of town, learn to either put her feet on top of your feet or to kick up some sawdust and form a small hill where her feet come in contact with the ground. Bracing and elevating(pulling up on her head and neck) will go a long long ways.

The only issue is she is light muscled, especially in that hip/leg. That is why I encourage you to place the feed block higher somehow. Really make those back legs fill in with muscle. when you do that, the topline will fill in as well.

The way to check to see if she is fat or green is to feel over her ribs and compare it to the back of your hand. If the ribs feel like your knuckles, she is green. If they feel like your wrist and you cant feel any sign of ribs, she's fat. If they feel like the back of your palm, just a bit of rib and a bit of flesh, she is about perfect.

Think of these goats like bodybuilders. The more muscle and solid they are, the better.

that help?


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Yes that has helped a lot! Thank you!! I have noticed that her shoulders are a little deformed and will possibly hurt her in class. Do you have any suggestions on how I can fix them during show If the judge doesn't allow bracing? The rules for the show I'm going to next month says that if you brace, you'll get disqualified.


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## crazygoatlady_inthemaking (Apr 25, 2014)

I live in ga too and i hate when judges place my does low in the class because they are fatter than they like. I ask all the time about getting rid of fat and people think im stupid bc they look at my does and say they are fine yet the judges think differently haha.

Your goat is gorgeous! I love the cool coloration on her! She should do good in showmanship being a bling goat.

And about how she is short.. I have a doe that reallllly short like yours and i just practiced bracing several different ways until i got the look i wanted.







Heres my tiny doe that was too"fat" but got 2ed last saturday and 10th that sunday.

Hope that kinda helps (besides me ranting haha)


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Yep I hate it! When I think my goat looks perfect, they tell me she's too fat:/ but congrats at 2 place! Good luck at your future shows, your goat is gorgeous!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

The same thing about how you placed good than bad happened to my friend, at state last year she got last in her class, but then at my county fair 2 weeks later she placed first in her class! I wish judges had the same idea on how they want a goat to look!


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## JT3 (May 1, 2011)

> Do you have any suggestions on how I can fix them during show


Its possible to make them flex a bit and not have your knee in their chest, you just have to practice pushing their head back and keeping their chin up...but not too high. Also like I said, putting a pile/small hill of sawdust under the front feet will transfer weight to those back and leg muscles as well. For a show like that I would REALLY show off on the side profile.


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## JT3 (May 1, 2011)

Some judges prefer "show" goats or club goats over market goats. It's a difference that I wish there was a way of mediating and regulating but their is not.

what they may refer to is the belly on the goats being too large and not "fat" some judges use terms that they dont really know the meaning of and it confuses people.

If you think it is the belly, try drenching the goat...glycerine or propylene glycol is what is recommended..but there are a lot of options out there...the show rite people make some stuff to help with that but its not cheap.


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## crazygoatlady_inthemaking (Apr 25, 2014)

Amandanicole said:


> Yep I hate it! When I think my goat looks perfect, they tell me she's too fat:/ but congrats at 2 place! Good luck at your future shows, your goat is gorgeous!


Thanks goodluck to you too!


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

Just got done showing, she placed last in her class judge told me that he like the width of her shoulders, but he would like her to have more width to her loin.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Every judge is going to tell something different. Basically what's he's saying is beef her up some. Loin can be added with feeding to some extent but alot of the time it's just genetic. If he liked her shoulders he probably means she has nice rack shape but tapers as she goes back. You want a goat that carries the same or more width as they go back.


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