# Increase my odds for doelings this coming season???



## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

So the buck I chose for my ladies last Summer/Fall is AWESOME! but I ended up with 5 bucklings and 1 doeling. LOL! I brought him back this year because he is just so awesome. Is there anything I can give him or his girls to improve my chances of getting more baby girls? I'd really like to retain a few for my herd. Holistic? Grandma swore by it? Anything? LOL!!! Thanks in advance!!! 

~Leona


----------



## Crossroads Boers (Feb 19, 2011)

We used Apple Cider Vinegar in our goats' water this year... so we'll see what happens.  I don't know if the buck or doe determines the kid's sex, but we put ACV in both buck/doe waters.  1/4cup per 5 gallons. I've heard ACV is supposed to help there be more does.


----------



## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Im still not sold on any of it.
Until her 3rd kidding Shotgun threw all Ds. Then I B & 2 Ds.
They get ACV in water.
Topline has given 4 Bs. This yr it was 3 D 1 B. Her sister has a tendency to give mostly Bs.


----------



## GoatyGoatGal (Jun 14, 2014)

Leona, what do you feed them?
I've only kidded doe's so far and my goats are free range and they *don't* get sweet-feed, just a seed mix I make. They don't get any alfalfa either, in my research, I've found that over feeding and/or high fat/sugar foods make for bucks! :cake:

Does your Buck have nice horns? Or is he polled? 
A Buck with horns has a higher chance of producing does, 60%. While Bucks that are polled (bred so that they have no horns) have only a 50/50 chance.

I have heard about ACV working, and my goats get that too! ;-) Lol

Good luck!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I have a crazy idea in my head this year, I think the sex of the animals is different depending on the time of year they are born. Last year I had 2 doe kids and 12 buck kids, toward the end of the year I got almost all girls. I had 3 doe kids, 2 fillies, 10 girl puppies, and 4 boy pups.

Then this spring I got a litter of puppies with not ONE female pup, I got 4 does and 12 buck kids, second litter of pups from the same sire to the fall litter, almost all boys in that litter too!

SO I think it has something to do with _when_ they're born. I'm breeding two does for december kids, and the rest will be for feb-march kids. I'm having another fall litter of puppies, and I'll see what I get then too. 
Because from November to December I got girls, girls, and more girls, in the spring I got boys, boys, boys! :lol:

My friend Linda had 8 doe kids and another 50 buck kids this year as well. My friend Emily is having a bull year with the cows, not one heifer yet.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

The male is the one who determines the sex of the offspring  But I'm still going to test my theory onder: There was something I read that the "female" sperm can survive the higher temps, so it would make sense that a breeding done in the summer would result in more female offspring. :chin: Someone has to help test this, I don't have many does! :lol:


----------



## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Acv is only effective if you squirt it directly into the vagina. You need to change the ph of the reproductive tract, not the rumen. When tested, syringing acv in the female DID produce more does. But the method is unsanitary. Plus it might be painful!

I heard that breeding does early in the heat cycle will increase the chance of does, while breeding closer to ovulation will increase the chance of males. This is because female sperm outlive the male sperm, so they get to the egg by ovulation.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I had a thread going in the beginning about selenium. I can't remember exactly what the reason goat hiker said but basically the more selenium the doe has the more bucks. I'll see if I can find the post so you know what exactly was said. 
But as for the buck being the one who decides the sex I'm not 100% sold on all that even if it is scientific proven. I have had does that have never had girls and some who never had boys and some that year after year it's a boy and girl. Or like one doe she has 2 girls and a boy every year for 3 years now. 
Same as they claim in cows and humans that us girls decide on twins and such. But get this. We have never had twins in our cows till we bought a bull named Sammy. Every year till he died we would have 3-5 sets of twins. He died 2 years ago and for the last 2 years no twins. It may be luck but I'm not sold on it.....but off to find that thread 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Its random, no way to better your chances or everyone would know it and be using it by now.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I'm on my phone and can't send the link but I took a pic of it  but it was all very interesting and if you do a search the title was nose and kids but here is what was said








Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Bose not nose.....stupid spell check lol


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## GoatyGoatGal (Jun 14, 2014)

TDG-Farms said:


> Its random, no way to better your chances or everyone would know it and be using it by now.


No disrespect, but science has proven it with using rat, etc. you can really impact the sex. doesn't mean you have to believe in science or use it, but it is out there at your disposal. Of course, nothing is fool proof and still mother nature will have her way at times. :laugh:

=====

I agree about the time of year, temp really effects everything, same with humans, it's all a chemical reaction.

Little-Bits-N-Pieces, I'll try and help! I only have two doe's, but I'm breeding one now, and my other one will be bred-back in a month or so.


----------



## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I personally believe that there are a lot of factors that influence reproduction. The seasons, weather, nutrition, genetics, etc. To me it is hard to prove these methods because you can have the same male and female and breed multiple times and get a different result each time. I look at is as a game...Am I going to win or is mother nature going to have everything her way?? lol

I do believe that the doe plays a role in the sex of her offspring. I have heard it is ph balance, body temp, I don't know for sure. I know of one doe that during the course of her life she kidded 6 times. She had twins each time. She was bred to 5 different bucks. Never a doe. All 12 were bucks.

It is fun to try and guess and "work" things around to our advantage, but in the end I think mother nature wins.:shrug:


----------



## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

GoatyGoatGal said:


> Does your Buck have nice horns? Or is he polled?A Buck with horns has a higher chance of producing does, 60%. While Bucks that are polled (bred so that they have no horns) have only a 50/50 chance.


Somebody forgot to tell my polled buck he was supposed to have boys...all polled doelings from him.


----------



## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

GoatyGoatGal said:


> No disrespect, but science has proven it with using rat, etc. you can really impact the sex. doesn't mean you have to believe in science or use it, but it is out there at your disposal. Of course, nothing is fool proof and still mother nature will have her way at times. :laugh:
> 
> =====
> 
> ...


Can you post the scientific proof?
And as we are dealing with goats, the proof it works on them would be best as rats and goats are slightly different.

I dont wanna sound like a jerk (which I am going to fail at I am sure) but you start off stating science has proved it and then go on to mention like a dozen different things that influence the results. Thats not proof as far as I understand it. But instead adds merit to the randomness of birth. Scientific proof is when you do something and it works a preponderance of the time.

After kidding out well over 1000 does over the years I can say from my experience that its roughly 50/50 across the board. Good feed, bad feed, (though with good feed and supplements we have noticed we get more kids per dam), supplements or not, young or old bucks its always about the same. There are years where we have had 40/60 or 60/40 but again, it has always seem totally random. Granted we have never tried things like the vinegar. Bo Se works for conception because selenium deficiency causes lower conception rates and a slew of birthing issues.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

This is true, but everyone remember, to keep it friendly keep it fun. :thumb:


I have had good results by breeding when the weather cools down at the end of sept, beginning of Oct.We get 50/50 or more Does when we do this. 
We have bred when the weather was super hot, and received more bucks. We have tested this theory and it works for us. 

Selenium: giving Bo-se increases fertility.


----------



## Greybird (May 14, 2014)

Science nerd here, so bear with me, but goats are mammals, and in mammals the sex of the offspring is determined by the male.

Now, all things being equal (as if that ever happens in real life ... :roll: ) a sperm cell for a female offspring is ever-so-slightly heavier than one for a male, simply because X chromosomes are much bigger that Y chromosomes.
In the cattle industry, sex-sorted semen has been available for a few years, so, in theory, the same could be done for goats, but it has some problems (lower rates of conception, for one) and it requires using AI and not natural breeding. Plus, even with all of that extra effort and expense there are no guarantees.
Other things like different diets, different temperatures, different day lengths etc, etc *might* have an effect on the gender of the offspring, but if they do it's so slight that it can't be proven.
Sex-linked genetic defects can also have an effect, but I will readily admit to my ignorance in this area, especially as it pertains to goats. (My experience is mostly with birds.)

Over the long run the ratio of males to females will eventually average out to about 50-50 without drastic - and expensive! - artificial measures. 
Still - that perfectly normal ratio could easily translate into 3 years of all boys followed by three years of all girls. If that happens it's pretty easy to believe that there's some other factor at work, but the most likely answer is still no. 
Random chance is nothing more than a series of very odd coincidences that eventually cancel each other out. 

It's that "eventually" part that can make you crazy!


----------



## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I know people that have tried everything. Good luck, it is nature.


----------



## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I agree with the fact that sperm determines the sex. But I think there are other factors that help control which sperm make to the egg and which doesn't. So that is how people try influence gender. IMO :think:

I think mother nature does her own thing and while we try to come up with ways to get what we want. 

There is nothing wrong with trying to "tip the scales" in your favor for your own personal preference, but I don't think anything gives you much of a guarantee.

But it can fun to try!


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I have bred goats since the early 80's. Some years I have more does, some years are buck years, some years are 50/50. If I figured out the % of all the years combined-my doe/buck ratio is pretty much 49/51.

The buck decides the sex because does just provide an x chromosome. The buck gives X and Y.

Females can help swing a bit if her tract is slightly acidic (you would have to ****** with vinegar or something to do that, orally will not do it) or if she is bred once very early in her standing heat and not bred again. X sperm swim slower but stronger than Y sperm. The egg is not released until several hours after standing heat is over. If she was bred early on, the Y's will be there and dead before the egg is released and the slower, stronger X's arrive to fertilize the eggs.

I found that the years I hand bred very early on, I got mostly does. Pasture breeding or repeat hand breeding got me a mix of both with the scales tipped a bit on the male end. Younger bucks tend to breed the does more often (quantity over quality!) so they tend to have more bucklings than the older bucks who are not as radical at breeding.

That's my 2 cents from 30 some odd years of kidding seasons!


----------



## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I bred my first doe two years in a row, each time she was bred on the 2nd /3rd day of heat and had all bucks. Then I bred my other doe this year on the first day of heat and only once, she had a doeling. Different buck each time...

I think timing does effect the sex of kids, but I've only observed this in my two does.


----------



## GoatyGoatGal (Jun 14, 2014)

TDG-Farms said:


> Can you post the scientific proof?
> And as we are dealing with goats, the proof it works on them would be best as rats and goats are slightly different.
> 
> I dont wanna sound like a jerk (which I am going to fail at I am sure) but you start off stating science has proved it and then go on to mention like a dozen different things that influence the results. Thats not proof as far as I understand it. But instead adds merit to the randomness of birth. Scientific proof is when you do something and it works a preponderance of the time.
> ...


You obviously have a lot more experience with goats than me! I'm not here to convince you or argue my point, I'm just discussing what I've experienced and found through my research.

So far, with several different bucks & does, they've all had only doelings and I've done the same things every time:

1. My goats don't eat any wheat, corn, soy, sweet feed, etc. 
2. They are free range and are free fed kelp, which is full of minerals. 
3. The bucks are not polled, they're horned. 
4. The does are bred early in their heat, and not bred again.

I've observed many who do the opposite and they've all kidded out way more billys than what they should, like 30/70 - 40/60.


----------



## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

I know a woman that swears by only breeding after the doe has at least one heat cycle that season and she puts the buck/ doe on either side of a pen for a couple days when the doe is in heat. She says she has had 90% doelings using this method. She says all the time the buck waits to breed and the stress on him kills the weaker x sperm and thus produces more y. Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Interesting theory ^^^


----------



## HoukFarms (Apr 14, 2013)

^^^^That is very interesting. We may have to try that here.


----------



## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

I always get way more bucks than does. I take impeccable care of my goats, make sure they are up on all their minerals and stuff. My neighbors, who's goats live about 100' from my goats, don't take as good of care of their goats. They have WAY more doelings born than bucks! Its getting really frustrating for me!


----------



## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

One thing I have noticed in humans.... Dads with trades jobs or "man" jobs tend to have boys...... Dads with office jobs or the like tend to have girls.... Just my observation of many dads.

So get your bucks in college and have them get an MBA or some other thing that will render them weak and unmanly, then you may get more does!


----------



## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Oooooooh!!! May I ask where you get your kelp GoatyGoatGal??? And what form is it fed out in? (Pellets? Loose leaf? etc.) 

2. They are free range and are free fed kelp, which is full of minerals. 

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

Chadwick said:


> So get your bucks in college and have them get an MBA or some other thing that will render them weak and unmanly, then you may get more does!


BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I am picturing a goat wearing a tie with glasses at the moment sitting in front of an open briefcase... HEHEHE!!!


----------



## LeonaShelby (Feb 17, 2014)

WOW!!! A lot of information here. Let me go out and talk it over with my ladies (and of course their man) and see what we should try first. I know he is eager to "get down to business". LOL! I'm thinking the apple cider vinegar might be an easy place to start for now. Thank you all for your suggestions!!! I'll get back to you with more questions I'm sure!!! And of course results as well!!!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

LeonaShelby said:


> BWAHAHAHAHA!!! I am picturing a goat wearing a tie with glasses at the moment sitting in front of an open briefcase... HEHEHE!!!


Can't imagine what you're picturing :book:........ :laugh:


----------



## GoatyGoatGal (Jun 14, 2014)

Hey LeonaShelby,
I get my kelp from Countryside Organics, for a 50 pounds bag, ground, it's 52.50$.

It lasts FOREVOR, I feed it to my 4 goats, 3 horses, 60+ chickens, I use it for garden fertilizer, etc. and it lasts about *6 months*! 

Here's the link! 

http://http://www.countrysideorganics.com/product.php?productid=89&cat=0&page=1&featured

When you first give it to them, they will most likely take a few big bites then leave it and just take a nibble a day or less. (If they are deficient in something they will eat more at first.)


----------

