# False pregnancy?



## SandyNubians

Hi all,
I have been putting this post off for a couple of weeks because I thought I would be able to tell my self by now but I can't. Does this look like a false pregnancy? This doe is a mini fainting goat she only has 3 working legs. She is obese, BCS of 5. She is also on the older side. She is 8 turning 9 in june. I have noticed she had been having discharge since December 6th maybe even sooner, that's just when I noticed it. I didn't think much of it but she has been having more and more discharge. I thought it was heat but she has it daily. Starting 3 weeks ago she has also been getting an udder. Her ligaments have been gone for 2-3 day. But it doesn't make sense to me. She has been having discharge for at least 4 weeks. I didn't even get a buck on my property until August 29th. She would have at least 3 weeks left. I have never seen a goat discharging for 7-8 weeks. I cannot feel anything, I tried to bump her and felt her right side for 30 minutes. She is not tight at all either. The reason I am posting this is I went to test ketones on one of my other girls who are due january 25th, I noticed she was having trouble getting up, then I started thinking and realized I haven't seen her out in the yard for at least 3 weeks she mostly stays within 5 feet of her water bucket. Do they have discharge with a false pregnancy? Should I get a vet involved? He normally checks her every 4 months, he was here mid-end november to check her and everything was fine as usual. Should I bring blood in or would a false pregnancy give a false positive? I can run blood over today. I have a lab only 40 minutes away and I could get the results back in 24-48 hours. I am incredibly worried about her! Any advice would be appreciated.


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## NigerianNewbie

The yellowish green color of that discharge, unlike the whitish color I see posted often, is of concern to me. Based on the color only, my first thought is an infection. Staying close to the water bucket and not going out in the yard for about 3 weeks seems off enough for you to take notice. Could you take her temperature?


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## SandyNubians

Temp is 102.5
It doesn't smell bad.
It may be the flash that makes it seem that color. I can bring some to the vet and get a culture if you think it is infection though. 
I assumed it was the snow/lack grass and leaves making her stay in the garage. She doesn't live in a pen with the other goats, she lives in my yard/garage. I didn't know if it was related but thought I would put it out there in case it is a sign.


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## SandyNubians

Decided to run a blood over. I have it drawn and ready to go. They close at 5 and I would rather know sooner than later so I'm leaving now. I don't think false pregnancy can give a false positive but I may be wrong.


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## GoofyGoat

Good luck with her. I have no clue what's going on but wanted to send positive thoughts your way!


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## SandyNubians

Thank you! I dropped it off just now. Headed home, and I should have results sometime tomorrow.


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## bisonviewfarm

Hope it turns out the way you want! I had a false last year she had discharge on & off for months. And she really looked and acted pregnant ( had a positive blood test on her so at the begining she was bred). Had me fooled till she delivered a puddle of fluid If it's a false it will come back negative as theres no placenta and that puts off what they test for.


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## SandyNubians

I do too. I truly hope it's false, I'm 75% sure it is as i have been thinking back and forth and don't think there has been even one time where a buck got out of the pasture and into the yard. I'll get my results tomorrow afternoon from what they told me. It's just been one problem after another lately. Though things seem to be getting better!


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## NigerianNewbie

SandyNubians said:


> Temp is 102.5
> It doesn't smell bad.
> It may be the flash that makes it seem that color. I can bring some to the vet and get a culture if you think it is infection though.
> I assumed it was the snow/lack grass and leaves making her stay in the garage. She doesn't live in a pen with the other goats, she lives in my yard/garage. I didn't know if it was related but thought I would put it out there in case it is a sign.


Glad the temp is normal and there is no smell. You may be right about the flash causing that weird color. Hope you get answers on the test soon, that would be one less thing too cause worry. Is she lonely living by herself? I assume it is a way of keeping her safe due to her bum leg. Do you have a mild tempered goat friend that could share the space with her? She can smell the scent of other does in season and the ruttyness of the buck. Probably has a hankering for a piece of the action and missing being a part of the herd during the courting phase.


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## SandyNubians

She may be. We tried to keep her with everyone in winter of 2017/18. She was absolutely lowest in the pecking order. Being a myotonic with only 3 legs one hit and she would be on the ground and frozen so the others would bully her to the point she sat in a corner all day unless someone was in with her. She constantly tried to escape the barn whenever I came in. Eventually, we just let her out in the yard and she had a dog door to go into the garage in the winter. That's how she became overweight. She does tolerate one on my mini doelings. Perhaps I can try and get the mini to stay in the garage with her, she is lowest on the pecking order so maybe that can work out. Dotty, has a bit of an attitude toward goats (and dogs) that she can bully but maybe she would be fine if they were left together for a while rather than for a few minutes. I'll have to try and get that arranged tomorrow, maybe she is depressed? I know winter can do that to people. Maybe it can to goats too.


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## toth boer goats

How are things?


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## SandyNubians

I was beginning to think I brought it in too late (They test Thursday and give results Friday. I made it about 40 mins before they closed at 5:30) I just got off the phone with them a few minutes ago. She is pregnant. I asked if it was a false it would show up, they said it was very, very unlikely(I figured) as they test for proteins in the blood from the placenta. They said it wasn't Iffy at all, she is very well into the pregnant range. I have no idea what I am going to do. Waiting on a call back from my vet. Hopefully he can take a look at her Monday or Tuesday. Now I need to try and figure this mess out and attempt to find sometime a buck got out. Obviously it happened, I just can't remember it for the life of me. She is doing fine. I had ketone strips and tested her for the heck of it. She came back negative. Temp was 102.3 this morning. She is eating and drinking normally and is bright-eyed.


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## GoofyGoat

Well, at least now you know. Now to make a plan. I hope all goes well ...would it be really hard for her to deliver and care for a little one? The pictures don't show her whole body. I have a 3legged dog who lost her left rear leg when someone abused her as a pup and I rescued her. She could handle puppies but we spayed her when we took her leg. She gets around fine. Maybe it'll be ok.


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## SandyNubians

I'm not sure. I know she cannot care for them. When we got her, one side of her udder was rock solid and didn't produce milk, and even now it is not filling. The side that is filling may or may not have milk, it didn't when we got her. I have never been there for her kidding and didn't ever plan on breeding her so I have no idea if she has always been like this or if she was like that only after her last kidding. I don't plan on allowing her to raise them either way. Shes already older and her last kid was so hard on her(regardless we pulled him as soon as we picked her up) I don't feel like I can safely leave them on her especially if she has multiples.


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## GoofyGoat

SandyNubians said:


> I'm not sure. I know she cannot care for them. When we got her, one side of her udder was rock solid and didn't produce milk, and even now it is not filling. The side that is filling may or may not have milk, it didn't when we got her. I have never been there for her kidding and didn't ever plan on breeding her so I have no idea if she has always been like this or if she was like that only after her last kidding. I don't plan on allowing her to raise them either way. Shes already older and her last kid was so hard on her(regardless we pulled him as soon as we picked her up) I don't feel like I can safely leave them on her especially if she has multiples.


Oh no, I'm sorry. It's not a great situation. At least you'll have does kidding soon for milk for the baby/babies. More work for you though. Not knowing the due date is no fun either 
Sending my thoughts and prayers your way.


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## SandyNubians

Thank you:hug: I do have colostrum and milk in the freezer from last year so that really helps.

I just got off the phone with the vet. He is coming monday morning to look at her.
I asked him as many questions I could think of to which responded to most with "I don't want to make a guess until I actually see her" I was hoping I could get some answers but totally understood why he didn't have answers right now.


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## GoofyGoat

Following! I really hope for the best possible outcome. Can you post a picture of the little lady please. I'd love to see her.


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## SandyNubians

Here is the lovely girl. 
Pictures from november.














She has 3 working legs. We are unsure what happened to her lame leg, but her previous owners attempted to splint for 3 weeks before we got her and by then it was too late to fix it without a 2-3k surgery and a 6 hour drive to a specific vet. (I had it all on the original post but deletes it as it was very long) We had 4 choices when we first got her. Amputate, Major surgery to put a specific pin in and then pain med, just Pain meds and anti-inflammatory, or put her down. We chose med and Anti-Inflammatory (I couldn't afford the amputation and she had too much fight to put her down) We were told her quality of life was really good with the meds, and we took her off them 8 months ago as we didn't see how the were helping. She has yet to have a problem. Well, until now


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## GoofyGoat

Oh she's beautiful! With such intelligent eyes. I can see easily how you love her.


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## Dwarf Dad

She is a pretty doe. Glad she has a good home. Hope you get a pair of mini-nubian champ milkers.


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## bisonviewfarm

Oh no Im so sorry


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.


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## top_goat

She's a doll! Glad she has humans who love her and try to give her good care!!! I hope it all works out well!!!


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## SandyNubians

Thank you all :hug:It means a lot to me. Unfortunately, every way I look at this I don't see it going well. I just got inside from sitting with dotty. The snow melted overnight and she was eating some leaves and in the middle of the yard so at least she is moving around. She greeted me with her normal Mmmmmm. I sat down with her and cried my eyes out. I really don't want to lose this girl. It isn't looking good at all though. Her remaining front leg is bending under her weight. She was perfectly fine at the end of november(see previous photo), held her weight and was just as she had always been. I saw her attempting to walk back to the mineral feeder and every part of me just fell apart looking at her leg. My bf came out and we started talking. He asked if we can amputate the leg now, and I said no. It won't make any difference as she will still be putting all her weight on the one leg. Then we started talking about the baby(ies) If we can't save her we at least want to try and save the kids. He agreed that if it comes to it we will get an Emergency cesarean(something we have been arguing about as it is over 1K) Now we are patiently waiting for the vet to come on Monday and get his opinion and see if there is anything we can do for her in the meantime.

Here is her leg







My little baby


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## NigerianNewbie

:hug: :imsorry: (grouphug)


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## ksalvagno

Poor girl. Tough decisions. ( Hugs)


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## GoofyGoat

I'm so sorry! You're fortunate to have such a supportive husband. What about splinting her good leg for extra support or at least wrapping it? You'd have to take it off a couple times a day to massage it but it might help.
You've got a huge heart for taking care of this special girl! Best wishes!


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## SandyNubians

I can definitely try that. I was thinking about it but was worried that if I used a hard material like wood or PVC it might become uncomfortable especially when she is lying down, as she is putting a lot of pressure on that leg. I'll try and find some way to cushion. Hopefully it will help her.


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## GoofyGoat

SandyNubians said:


> I can definitely try that. I was thinking about it but was worried that if I used a hard material like wood or PVC it might become uncomfortable especially when she is lying down, as she is putting a lot of pressure on that leg. I'll try and find some way to cushion. Hopefully it will help her.


I'd use vet wrap and a SAM Splint they're padded and washable. Here's one I found really quickly I'm sure you can find a better price if you go through the listings. I've used them on dogs and people they're great for a vet kit. I always have at least one on hand.


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## SandyNubians

My vet may have that or something similar. I can ask him. I'll have to order some when I get my next paycheck


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## GoofyGoat

Oh, forgot to mention you can cut them to fit really easily too.


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## SalteyLove

It will be very difficult, but I really don't think becoming immobile during late pregnancy will be a death sentence for either her or the kids.

I can see it's probably painful and emotional to watch her hobble around based on that photo. 

Can you create a place with comfortable bedding and keep everything very close together for her? Good hay, loose minerals, water. Can you cut leafy browse for her each day? 

You might fit her with a dog harness or start practicing putting a bath towel between her front legs then providing her some support while she hobbles about.


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## cbrossard

I'm so sorry for you and your girl. Hoping for the best possible outcome for you all!


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## SandyNubians

SalteyLove said:


> It will be very difficult, but I really don't think becoming immobile during late pregnancy will be a death sentence for either her or the kids.


Would it go back after she kidded? I was assuming it would stay like that. At that point, she would have one lame leg and one leg that barely works. If it didn't go back to normal in a month or so, I assume her quality of life would go from good to bad. And as much as I would hate myself for it I wouldn't want to be selfish and make her suffer. And I will say there is also a possibility she could have been bred by a standard Nubian. The buck I had between August 29th and September 28th was a large Nubian buck. About 130+lbs. He was also about twice her size her size. She is just slightly larger than my Nigerian doe. She only weighs about 75lb-80lbs. Her weight when we first got her just days after kidding was 60lbs. She can however also be bred to a Nigerian dwarf buck who only weighed 45lbs, and was smaller than her. I really do hope she was bred to the ND, much better chance for success but since I have yet to find any date where something could have happened I'm not going to be relieved until its all over and done.


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## SandyNubians

SalteyLove said:


> It will be very difficult, but I really don't Can you create a place with comfortable bedding and keep everything very close together for her? Good hay, loose minerals, water. Can you cut leafy browse for her each day?


She does currently have 2 places she can be. She has a garage. It has bedding, a dog bed, water, hay, and minerals. When she goes out in the day she uses the hay shed for her area. It also has water, (obviously)hay, minerals, and then has hay from previous bales as bedding. I am currently trying to get cameras up on both locations so I can monitor her.


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## Deborah Haney

Strange thought: I had a dog with an amputated front leg and was looking into wheelchairs for him. I also saw wheelchairs for dogs that have all 4 legs but 1 or more don't work. It would likely just be for exercise (not unsupervised) but it may help her loose weight and some PT might help develop muscle in the working front leg. I'm sure there are leg braces with joints. Whenever I dislocate my knee I end up with a neoprene sleeve with velcro straps and a metal bar in each side and a hinge at the knee. That might work, particularly if there's a shoulder part to keep the device on. You may try contacting Goats of Anarchy. They end up with a lot of goats with leg issues and I guess they manage. They seem to look down on dairys and breeding (so I tend to avoid them) but they may help you out with your sweet girl. Sorry for the long post (and the possible false hope) but good luck!


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## SandyNubians

I just looked into the wheelchairs. I'm no stranger to building them so I might be able to make something similar.

Thank you for your well wishes :hug:


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## Dwarf Dad

I am sure sorry that you and she are going through this. I, for one, am sure that you will do what is best for your doe. It is painful for us out here, I know it is much more for you. Prayers and hugs.


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## SandyNubians

Dwarf Dad said:


> I am sure sorry that you and she are going through this. I, for one, am sure that you will do what is best for your doe. It is painful for us out here, I know it is much more for you. Prayers and hugs.


Thank you. I just want a vet out already so i can get someone other than my, opinion. Hoping for the best!


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## GoofyGoat

Monday seems so far away when you're stressed. I'm so sorry. 
I was looking on eBay when we had to take our dogs leg and they sell animal wheelchairs, though it sounds like your able to rig something. It's so hard watching you both go through this. I'm praying it was the little ND that sired her little ones. Hang in there! ***HUG***


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## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> I just looked into the wheelchairs. I'm no stranger to building them so I might be able to make something similar.
> 
> Thank you for your well wishes :hug:


As i was readin i had the same thought as deborah! What about fashioning one from pvc and wheels? Maybe old wagon wheels or some you have around. Make a small square/rectangle frame and put four wheels on it. A small paddin of some sort for her chest to lay atop it. Then strap her in every morniin. Make it jus big enough for her chest to go on. Take her off it at night to relax.


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## SandyNubians

I'm going to try and run to the store to get some things to attempt making one. The wheelchairs i made before are like smaller models. I just need to size them up and add a few new things. This is the first one i designed for a deformed kid who only had use in 1 front leg. I think it's a good place to start.


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## SalteyLove

Not knowing what the actually issue with her legs is, it's so hard to say if she would regain better mobility after kidding, but I am inclined to guess yes.


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## SandyNubians

I did find a day in my notes, we had a buck break out September 13th. That is the absolute only time I have found so far. I got home from work and found everyone eating the hay I had delivered that morning in my driveway. Only thing I was thinking about was both my bucks were out and my Nubian doe who was in heat that morning may have been bred by the ND buck rather than the Nubian she was supposed to be bred too. I wasn't thinking about dotty as I have never seen her in heat for the 2 years I've had her. That may very well be the day (still not 100% sure) I'll continue to look for any other time, but for now, I'm going to assume it was that day. They could have been out as long as 7 hours from the time I left until the time I got home. So it was a big window of time. Vet is coming tomorrow morning at 8. Just a few more hours.


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## mariarose

I don't have a lot to offer here, regarding her current mobility. My suggestions are about nutrition. Consider being very generous and regular with Replamin, to assist not only with current needs, but also to make her future recovery easier to achieve. 

Also, as she is obese, so fat is taking up a lot of room inside, and as her babies grow, the room for food will get even more restricted, I'd pay close attention to giving a small amount of nutritionally dense food (such as alfalfa pellets) in order to get most of her nutrients in a small package.

Still giving her all the hay she wants, certainly. I'm not talking about not letting her eat...

Good luck with the mobility device. I mean that will all my heart.


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## toth boer goats

Prayers sent.

Was rickets talked about?


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## SandyNubians

Vet came and left a couple hours ago. I was actually happy he didn't think it was quite as bad as I thought. He palpated her side with his palm and said he felt at least one kid maybe a second but he is not sure. He said he did feel kicking, and he made me feel it. Yep definitely kicking. He said the kid felt really small (which is good!) He did a vaginal exam and said nothing felt out of the ordinary and her discharge smelt and looked normal. She is overweight which we have discussed before. He said he would be most worried about toxemia, and milk fever. He recommended I pull all grain and keep her on alfalfa hay and pellets? I do trust him, but that didn't sound quite right to me. Should i be pulling all grain? He seemed positive she should be due in 2 or just over 2 weeks. Based on udder growth, discharge and the exam. That would put the date I found off the lists. He told me to add supplemental calcium of some sort and to keep her confined in the garage space, so she wouldn't do further damage to her leg. He said he didn't recommend a splint (I may still do one anyway) and he recommended just watching her. He said I can terminate the pregnancy. We would get rid of the extra weight and can focus on dotty. But we would very likely lose the kid(s) and since she would go into labor, complications can arise and we may lose her as well. It is always a risk. He also said we can continue for a couple more weeks and hope she kids by then. But he said he thinks it would be a toss-up between her doing well and complications. The longer she is pregnant the more likely for problems. I don't want to abort, but he seemed to make it up to be a 50/50 chance. She might do just fine, but she also might not. I do have lute on hand so if at anytime I feel it is necessary I can lute her.


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## mariarose

SandyNubians said:


> Should i be pulling all grain?


That is absolutely what I would be doing.


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## SandyNubians

Okay, I was just confused. My neighbor said I should be upping it (They breed boers) I've only been giving her about a half cup so it shouldn't be hard to take her off.


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## cbrossard

Some people think you should up grain towards the end of pregnancy to help with milk production etc. Others think you should cut grain at the end of pregnancy because they believe it leads to bigger kids (harder on mama). In your case, I would Definitely agree to cut all grain and stick to alfalfa pellets, hay, and a good mineral!


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## Sfgwife

He most likely said pull grain cause of the overweight of her. More weight will tax her body more and she is already gonna be addin weight cause of the kid. Did he say if after she kids too add it back or not? I think i remember you sayin you were gonna bottle the kid? If so she won’t need the grain for milk makin cause she will be dried up. Just make sure to snag the colostrum she does have and have some other just in case she doesnt give you any.


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## SandyNubians

No, he didn't say. I can call him tomorrow and ask. He is coming to see her again in 10 days. I was thinking that too. Yes, I am going to pull and bottle feed kids. I'll try and milk out what i can. If she does go in 2 weeks that will be 3-10 days before my first doe kids so I'm headed into town to pick up colostrum replacer just in case she doesn't produce enough.


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## toth boer goats

The bent legs like that seem like rickets to me. Vitamin D deficiency.

Did the vet check that?


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## GoofyGoat

I'd pull the grain and give her fresh veggies or fruit instead. She'd get xtra vitamins and fiber without the excess calories. That way she'd not think she's losing something ...but getting something special instead. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
@toth boer goats made a good point with the rickets. I bought a calcium gummies to give Andromeda and it had extra vitamin D in it ...She loves them. Maybe it would be a help to you too.


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## SandyNubians

toth boer goats said:


> The bent legs like that seem like rickets to me. Vitamin D deficiency.
> 
> Did the vet check that?


No, he didn't. I was thinking it was all the weight being added to the leg, and to move she has to hop. I was thinking the pressure is slowly causing it to bend. It only started bending 3 weeks ago (about when she started her udder) but has gotten much worse in the last 10 days. Would it come on that quick?



GoofyGoat said:


> I'd pull the grain and give her fresh veggies or fruit instead. She'd get xtra vitamins and fiber without the excess calories. That way she'd not think she's losing something ...but getting something special instead. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
> @toth boer goats made a good point with the rickets. I bought a calcium gummies to give Andromeda and it had extra vitamin D in it ...She loves them. Maybe it would be a help to you too.


I will try and get some of those in town later today. Hopefully that helps her some.


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## toth boer goats

They have A& D vitamin shot, you might be able to get OTC and try that on her.
It may be worth a shot anyway.


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## SandyNubians

I'll ask when I call later if i can pick some up. How much will she need?


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## mariarose

SandyNubians said:


> I'll ask when I call later if i can pick some up. How much will she need?


I have injectable A & D that I've never used. The instructions I got for it was 1ml SQ every 60 days as needed. As I said, I've never used it. I don't like injecting nutrition supplements and I bought it before I figured that out about me. This was in my, "Ooh, I need this and this and this, a ton of that, and some of that..." going broke phase. Now it is way out of date and I need to throw it away...

Anyway, that is the dosing I was told for a 100 lb goat.

I've used Replamin, and I've also used human D-3 soft gels, 400 iu.


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## mariarose

Here is a label of a similar product to what I have in my drawer
https://www.durvet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/vitamin-AD_500mL_sparhawk_0716.pdf


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## SandyNubians

Okay, I'll see what i can get. I may just try and get human vitamin d for now until i sell a couple of things and I can get some from the vet. I do have replamin on hand and will give her some. 

Does anyone know what the gestation time for a myotonic goat would be? I know it varies but what would be an average? I know some are huge and standard size, but some are also small and mini size. I have found such mixed dates. One person has one going to day 152 and another person has one go on day 143. Since she is mini-sized would I be better off assuming 145 days? I don't want to induce but if i have too i want to make sure the absolute soonest day she can kid has passed. I have heard of people saving premies 13 days early but know it's a lot of work, and most the time they don't make it regardless. I'm going to pick up dex tomorrow just in case i feel the need to induce so they have the best chance possible.


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## GoofyGoat

You must be going nuts. I know I would be ...from trying to get what is needed, wanted and recommended. I've spent way way too much doing that since we bought the preggos. I was at the local feed and saw about a thousand things that are on "the list"then I stopped looking and left. I realized I neededto start using my head...Tums are straight calcium and about a dollar a roll. If you have a dollar store near you you can get enough vitamins to open your own store for under $10.00, there's also bandages and doggie pads and everything else you "might" need.
To make a long story short, look for better ways other than selling your stuff if you can. In our rush to give our goats the best care and everything we think we need. It's easy to hurt ourselves. Just a thought... I'm not being critical or judging but it worries me when people are going to extremes and causing even more stress on themselves.
I hope I didn't word this badly... I care and want to be helpful.


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## SandyNubians

Oh no, it's fine. I have a couple polaroid camera I haven't used in 2 or 3 years. And had some people coming over on Friday. It was a bit stressful trying to get and find stores to get everything at, but it will be well worth it if by some chance she starts acting and feeling better. Right now she is currently chowing down on some hay. She was also doing some stretching, she had more discharge earlier, and her udder has gotten bigger. There is no way she was bred sooner than the 29th so I'm not sure if i should be worrying. I haven't been able to feel her ligaments for 4 or 5 days now, not sure if it's cause they are gone or it is her weight issue. I've never had a goat quite that overweight so I'm not sure if extra weight makes it harder to find the ligs or not. It's going to be a long night if this continues. Thank you for caring though. It really means a whole lot to me that other people out there care as much about dotty as me.:bighug:


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## GoofyGoat

Phew! 
I really hope things work out well for dotty and the kids. (And you too  ) I wish I knew where to get those cute animated emoji's id put in a whole cheering section for you both!


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## NigerianNewbie

:up: :bighug: (clap) :goodjob: (console) :coolmoves: (dance) (grouphug) :clapping: (highfive) :imsorry: :inlove: (pray) :squish::goatkiss: :7up: (thumbup) :rose::rose::rose:


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## mariarose

:up::heehee:


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## GoofyGoat

NigerianNewbie said:


> :up: :bighug: (clap) :goodjob: (console) :coolmoves: (dance) (grouphug) :clapping: (highfive) :imsorry: :inlove: (pray) :squish::goatkiss: :7up: (thumbup) :rose::rose::rose:


Thank you


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## toth boer goats

You can give 1/2 to 1 cc shot, maybe try 1 cc if we suspect rickets, then wait a month and see if there is a difference.
If she is better by then, you know it is working.
If she is improving with that give another in a month, a 1/2 cc. Then watch and see if there is a difference then as well.
If a doe is preggo, she will pass rickets in her kids.

Other mineral deficiencies are possible as well.


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## SandyNubians

Okay, thanks for the info. She actually appears to be getting better. I'm not sure if that has something to do with her not quite eating as much the last 2 days. She is coming back negative on ketone strips and is still doing well otherwise. In that picture from before it was really bent, now it is bent in but nowhere near as much as it was a few days ago. I'll see if I can get a picture later.


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## SalteyLove

I definitely agree with giving the Replamin since you have that on hand - maybe do the 5 days in a row loading to get her updated then once a week after that. 

And free choice alfalfa with no grain is perfect for - more calcium!

Take the time to do some reading on pregnancy toxemia/ketosis. It's important to recognize early signs. Walking tenderly on their feet is one of the earliest but you won't be able to tell with her! In complete weird goat owner fashion - I might take to smelling her breath twice a day if I were you. Do you have blackstrap molasses and karo on hand?


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## SandyNubians

I do have both things on hand. I was treating another doe with possible ketosis a week or 2 ago. I started yesterday with replamin so I'll go ahead and continue for the next 4 days. I'll also smell her breath, just incase by some chance, my strips don't work. Right now it doesn't smell like much other than hay so I think we are okay.


----------



## NigerianNewbie

The joint on that leg has been supporting all of the weight for a long time now due to the birth defect of the opposite leg she was born with. Addition of more weight stressed the joint even more. Pregnancy added even more weight and additional stress. Seems like her new diet of less calories is helping since you've seen improvement in a matter of a few days. That's encouraging news. (highfive) :rose::rose::rose:


----------



## SalteyLove

SandyNubians said:


> I do have both things on hand. I was treating another doe with possible ketosis a week or 2 ago. I started yesterday with replamin so I'll go ahead and continue for the next 4 days. I'll also smell her breath, just incase by some chance, my strips don't work. Right now it doesn't smell like much other than hay so I think we are okay.


BAHAHA! I was trying to save you the $$$ of buying ketone strips by smelling her breath! But since you have them the strips are likely are trustworthy


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## mariarose

Goat Snorting... The new drug of choice...

I'm IN!!!!


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## GoofyGoat

How's the little lady doing today?


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## SandyNubians

GoofyGoat said:


> How's the little lady doing today?


She is doing good. She didn't really want to be kept inside the garage so I let her outside and tried to keep her from being too active (per vets advice) I was up early just incase. Her ligaments confuse me and her udder is still getting bigger, she is stretching a lot (not uncomfortable but just stretching) she is still eating hay well, and I have gone out and grabbed some leaves for her. I have been able to feel it/them kicking last night. It feels really really small. Its feet are about the size of my thumb. So that is really good. Hopefully it comes out really quickly and there is no problems. Just over 2 weeks until suspected due date.


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## NigerianNewbie

That is so cool, being able to feel the movements and even a tiny thumb size little foot. 
:clapping:


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## SandyNubians

It is very cool! I spend a little too much time feeling now, lol. I have 2 girls due in almost 2 weeks. I feel bad I had been putting the last 4 months of attention on them  If i had known she was pregnant I would have put a lot more attention on her.

Here is her leg. In the pictures, you can't really tell all that well (she was in an awkward position) but in person, there is a huge difference from just 3 days ago. Her knee was almost touching the ground, now it is *almost* getting close to being normal. Im really hoping she continues to improve.


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## GoofyGoat

Wow, it does look better yay!
I m so happy she wants to be active it means her spirits are good.
She's been on my mind so I wanted to check in


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## NigerianNewbie

That is remarkable! (woot):wow: :great:


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## SalteyLove

I missed it in one of the pages ... What has changed in the last 5 days that is improving her leg?


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## SandyNubians

I'm not sure, she has been given a load of things. I gave her (and everyone else) Bo-Se 2 days ago as a few were showing signs of deficiency. She has gotten replamin starting yesterday. She got grain taken away completely yesterday. I upped her alfalfa pellets(almost)2 days ago. She is getting free choice alfalfa pellets, and hay, but sunday her consumption of it slowed down (that's why I started testing for ketosis) I started giving tums and raspberry leaves yesterday. I'm also giving her about 1/2 an oz of nutridrench starting(almost) 3 days ago just because she really enjoys it and she wasn't quite as active as normal. I'm almost sure there are other things I can't remember off the top of my head as well.


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## SandyNubians

Oh, and since Monday morning she had restricted access to roaming the yard.


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## SalteyLove

Hmph, it's just gotta be the Bo-Se


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## GoofyGoat

And how is the little lady doing today? Inquiringly minds want to know!


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## SandyNubians

Vet is coming over this afternoon  I don't feel comfortable leaving her over the weekend without someone to look at her. Yesterday she seemed just a bit out of it. She didn't eat as much as she normally does, and all day long she was in the same area. Every time I went out she hadn't moved, just spun in a bit of circle. I watched her try to stand up, and her leg looked great! About 90% normal, but after 5-10 seconds she fell down. She was also shivering, which she should not do. It wasn't that cold (37-40°F) and she has a very thick winter coat.


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## mariarose

Thiamine... and take away the grain...


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## Dwarf Dad

I hope she will be okay. Must be getting close.


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## SandyNubians

She's not getting grain. I took it away completely on Monday night. She has been getting hay, and alfalfa pellets.


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## SandyNubians

Dwarf Dad said:


> I hope she will be okay. Must be getting close.


I hope so too. She has at least 9 days until the very earliest possible date. Technically if she had it now it could possibly survive.


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## GoofyGoat

Oh poor little lady, I hope she's ok! Hopefully the vet can do or give you something to help. B complex maybe? It certainly couldn't hurt. Keep us posted please!


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## mariarose

If you give the B-Complex, I'd make sure it is the kind that has the 100 level of thiamine. I could be wrong, but that's what I would do. I'd also give her some flat dark beer.


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## SalteyLove

I would check her ketones if you haven't already today then give a B complex injection and a down of "Magic" to keep her energy until the vet checks her.


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## SalteyLove

MAGIC RECIPE
1 part corn oil
1 part molasses
2 parts Karo syrup
It is helpful to warm it just a bit.

(Source: http://goatsinthegarden.blogspot.com/2009/10/magic-and-revive-treatment-for-goats.html?m=1)


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## SandyNubians

I'll try and test her again next time she pees. I checked her this morning and it came back negative, but I fear maybe I contaminated it because I caught it with my hands rather than a cup so that might be why. She has been in the same spot this morning as she has been all night and day yesterday. She did scoot about 5 feet to get to her minerals and water though. Just waiting on the vet now.


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## SandyNubians

The vet came out, he didn't seem as concerned as I was. Then again, she isn't as bad as she seemed last night. She is eating well and has a full belly. She isn't shaking (I would hope not, its 42°) she has still only moved about 3 feet from this morning. He said just to keep an eye on her. Try and get her up and moving for at least 5 minutes twice a day so her muscles don't deteriorate. He said she looked good and healthy otherwise. He gave me dex so if I have to induce over the weekend they babies will have the best chance of survival. Hopefully, I don't have to do that though. He also gave me his home phone number so I can call at any time if she starts acting off. I already gave her a B-complex shot this morning when I woke up so he said we are doing pretty much all we can at this time. I'm working on getting thiamine, but I should be able to get some this evening. Now we just wait. She has a really nice udder going on so hopefully, I won't need to use colostrum replacer.


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## GoofyGoat

Poor thing sounds really uncomfortable but I'm so happy you have a vet in stand by mode. That's a good vet to do that. I hope she does well over the weekend that way the babies have 2 extra days in the womb. Every day they stay put the better for their development. Hang in there!


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## SandyNubians

GoofyGoat said:


> Poor thing sounds really uncomfortable but I'm so happy you have a vet in stand by mode. That's a good vet to do that. I hope she does well over the weekend that way the babies have 2 extra days in the womb. Every day they stay put the better for their development. Hang in there!


She is  She did enjoy a really good scratching though. Normally she used the dirt bike outside of the garage as a back scratcher but hasn't been able too, so she was really itchy! I really do love my vet! I have avoided vets for a long time. I have had bad experiences with vets and goats. A year after i moved here, for the first time in 4 years I went to the vet to have my GP looked at when he developed bone cancer and they were so kind! So after that, I had them come out for a farm call to geld a young stallion. They are very cheap compared to other vets and provide even better care than them. I then had them come out to look at a few does for the very first time and he let me know right up front, he wasn't goat savvy, but they are becoming really popular and he is eager to learn about them! Ever since I have used them quite often. Not very often you find such a good vet around here!


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## SalteyLove

I hope Dottie is relatively comfortable today. Any changes to her udder to say kid(s) may come sooner rather than later?


----------



## SandyNubians

SalteyLove said:


> I hope Dottie is relatively comfortable today. Any changes to her udder to say kid(s) may come sooner rather than later?


Still in the same spot she has been the last 2 days. At least on camera. I'm going out in a few minutes to get her up. She is, however, eating, drinking, and using the mineral feeder. Her udder is big. But i did find a picture of the day i got her. I forgot how huge her udder was, so it could be a while yet. I haven't been able to feel ligs for over a week now, but i did feel them yesterday, they are just really low, or buried in fat. She hasn't had discharge for the last week either.


----------



## SandyNubians

Well, I managed to catch her peeing and brought my cup with me. She tested with moderate ketone levels  Starting more aggressive treatment today. She also didn't touch her alfalfa pellets which is not normal for her at all. I still feel the kid(s) kicking so that is also good. I would like her to make it at least another week.

Good news is I think she will do just fine over the weekend. She doesn't appear to be stressed. Temp is still normal. Udder is filling nicely. She is still bright-eyed and active other than not standing. I lift her up and she will stand on her own for 4-5 seconds and then fall back down. Her leg is 95% normal now when she is standing. Hopefully, when this is all over and done she will rebound quickly.


----------



## GoofyGoat

How's Dottie doing today? Are her ketones stabilized?


----------



## SandyNubians

I'm about to go drench her again. Between dottie needing to be drenched and lifted every 3 hours, my other 2 girls that are closing in on their due dates, and now a snake with a URI. I've been tired and forgot to update! Haven't caught her pee since yet. Last I checked they were the same. Moderate. She still will not stand up at all and pees all over herself. Hasn't moved on her own in 3(?) days now. She is also breathing heavier, but it sounds like some of my girls do late in pregnancy so I'm not too worried. She is however still eating hay like there is no tomorrow. Has a very active rumen. Drinking, and eating minerals. I gave her nice big bowl of "magic" water(Her magic dose mixed with warm water). She drank it all right up. Saved me from having to drench her! Only a week until suspected delivery. Vet comes to check her again on Thursday.


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## SalteyLove

Keep your chin up - you are doing a great job!


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## GoofyGoat

You're getting near the finish line...how's little Dottie doing?


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## SandyNubians

She wasn't doing quite as well this morning. She had a very active rumen. But normal she sucked the drench down herself. This time she spit it all over and refused it. She also normally loved some warm molasses water, this morning she only took a quick sip then refused it. She also didn't want to stand at all. Normally when I lift her she will hold her own weight and take a few steps. This morning she just put all her weight on my hands and didn't even make the slightest attempt to stand or move  So far today has only been bad changes. Her udder is huge. Twice the size of my 2 does who are due in 3-5 days after her and they are dairy breeds. It's also tight, but that may or may not be because she is laying on it. Only 6 days until her estimated due date (145 days from the day after I got my buck)


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## toth boer goats

Poor girl.
She is getting in the safe zone of kidding, being at 6 days.

Make sure you check her ketone level and check her ankles, are they swollen? If so, is she getting alfalfa?
If you think she isn't getting enough calcium, supplement her.
Encourage her to walk.
try to get her to eat. Even if you have to make an alfalfa pellet slurry. 
And drench her with it.


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## SandyNubians

toth boer goats said:


> Poor girl.
> She is getting in the safe zone of kidding, being at 6 days.
> 
> Make sure you check her ketone level and check her ankles, are they swollen? If so, is she getting alfalfa?
> If you think she isn't getting enough calcium, supplement her.
> Encourage her to walk.
> try to get her to eat. Even if you have to make an alfalfa pellet slurry.
> And drench her with it.


She has been testing with moderate levels for about 3-4 days now I believe. Her ankles don't appear to be swollen, but then again I haven't really checked them since Sunday.

She is getting horse quality, 98% alfalfa if I remember correctly. She gets it 24/7. She is also getting alfalfa pellets 24/7. I have been giving her 5 tums a day, and 1 childrens gummy. Those were all she really wanted to eat today. I do have Dextrose and Calcium gluconate I got at TSC but I haven't given her either yet.


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## GoofyGoat

Awe the poor thing ...she sounds depressed and bored. The vet comes soon doesn't he? I'd bet she's sore from laying about too. Inactive muscles are sore muscles. I hope she gets relief when she finally kids. Give her a scratch from me. I think about her a lot. Maybe some potassium would help her it helps break up lactic acid in crampy muscles ...just a thought.


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## dnchck

Praying for you girl!


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## NigerianNewbie

:bighug: :rose::rose::rose:


----------



## HoosierShadow

How I didn't see the updates for the past several days I don't know. Testing moderate for several days is very dangerous for your doe.

Just going off of my own experiences... A down doe is a doe in danger and can be hard to bring them back. Toxemia destroys their kidneys and/or liver. We've dealt with toxemia over the years, I've lost 2 beloved does that never really tested very high, it was devastating. We've had some others deal with it as well, usually does carrying triplets/large triplets. 
I induced a doe that kidded 6 days early and her triplets were just fine. But I've induced and had kids a day early and nearly lost 1, but with a lot of work I was able to save him.
When inducing it's generally best to use Dexamethasone (rapidly matures kids lungs) and 2cc of Lute (Lute causes the doe to go into labor).

I give Dex to kids who are born early and struggle with breathing, and a little bit of oral B-Complex or Thiamine to help wake up their brains. That truly is a huge help IMO.
Have heating pads, towels in the dryer ready to turn on in the event kids are weak and need extra warmth as a precaution if you have weak kids. 

Again JMO and from my own experiences. But from the sounds of it, if this were my doe, I would not wait... I would induce. Just because I know once they get too far gone.. it's hard to save anyone.


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## bisonviewfarm

How's she doing today?


----------



## toth boer goats

How is she?


----------



## SandyNubians

@HoosierShadow I actually read through a couple of your kidding threads over the last few days(I am getting anxious waiting for babies) and did see. I already got B complex, thiamine, Cod liver oil, loads of towels, heater, heat pads, Lute and dex, and Extra dex to give kids. I also saw a few other threads with does with PT. Results to me seem 50/50. Some people manage to save the doe and most of the kids, but some people lost everyone  I am really hoping for the best here.

@GoofyGoat
Yes, the vet comes out tomorrow afternoon for another check. Hopefully, it's good news.

She stood up this morning... ON HER OWN!! I was so happy I was nearly in tears. She stood up and walked over to me while I was getting her drench ready. She stood almost a minute on her own. Then she laid back down again. Still not taking her drench as she has been, and she didn't seem as full she normally was, but I did see her eat some hay. Her ligaments are nearly gone but that might be because we are getting snow. We haven't had snow since early December and it has been in the mid-40s, so that quick change may be why. Her udder is the same. I actually got to see and feel it while she was standing. It's not as big as I thought, but still pretty large.

Her she was this morning. She is definitely not as bright and happy as she normally is. Poor girl seems miserable.


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## GoofyGoat

Way to go Dottie! Good girl! She's so close, maybe just getting the kids out will be what she needs. I'm sending positive thoughts and prayers your way. I'd keep my fingers crossed too but I have a million chores to get done though I wanted to check in before I went to the barn. Thanks for the update!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

I am glad she got up! Dottie is a sweet looking doe. I am also watching, praying, hoping and wishing the best.


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## HoosierShadow

I'm glad she is still doing well! Toxemia is terrifying for sure. I'm glad you've been reading up on it as it can be so tricky to pull them through when they get down. I found that using Lauren Green's drench recipe is what brought our does ketone levels down and I feel is the best drench recipe I've used so far. It has a lot of good nutrition and supportive care in it. 
Hopefully your vet has experience with toxemia, and knows when to induce vs. letting it go too far. Praying for your girl. Hopefully babies soon and she starts to feel better!


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## toth boer goats

Good to hear.


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## SandyNubians

I don't think she is going to make it much longer  She was totally limp this morning. I thought she was gone. I moved her and she didn't seem to notice. She ate one bite of hay. She didn't drink anything. She appears out of it, staring into space. She doesn't look good at all. Vet is delayed, we had pretty severe flooding last night and he can't make it over right now. He should be coming around 1 (currently 10) We will see what he thinks.


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## toth boer goats

Oh no, sorry she is down.

It is a tough call, she may have to be induced, yet, she may not be strong enough for it or a C-section. 
I hope the vet gets there really soon.
Scary stuff, prayers sent. :hug:


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## Island Milker

Good luck sandy


----------



## GoofyGoat

Praying for you and Dottie!


----------



## HoosierShadow

Praying for Dottie and her babies. I try not to think bad and I'm hoping for a miracle here, darned toxemia.
If everything goes south and your up for it you can try to save the kids. Maybe your vet will do an emergency c section or sadly last case a terminal c section. But it has to be fast getting kids out. 
I did it on a beloved doe and got 2 of 3 kids breathing but they only lived for 2hrs. Took at least 8 minutes to get them out, but they were 9 days early and lungs weren't mature enough (tongues were bluish).
I've induced and had kids 6 days early born just fine.
Dexamethasone is key for kids with breathing issues, rubbing and stimulating and a little oral b complex or thiamine.

Praying!!


----------



## SandyNubians

Vet just left. We gave her calcium, dextrose, and electrolytes via IV. She is definitely perkier. She drank loads of water, she ate a bit of hay. She tried to stand up again and isn't just lying flat. So that's the good news.

Now the bad news. He doesn't think she is going to go within the next 2 weeks. He bumped her and said the kid still feels smaller. She is not opening or loosening her cervix or surrounding tissues at all. Her udder isn't ready. He said he would expect her to go another 10 days or more. And it may just be me wanting to be right here, but I was kinda guessing she wasn't due soon. I did find that one, and only time the bucks got out. And believe me, I have checked everywhere. I was thinking the vet was right so I have been going with his guess of the day after I got the buck. Of course, I am still going to watch her. But it's seeming more and more like it is going to be then. She just doesn't seem ready. The only time I have found where the buck got out was September 13th. So she would only be 127 days bred. We would have 18 days until day 145. Again, I'm going to be checking her hourly starting in a few days, but right now I'm thinking that she isn't going to go soon. Which is bad news. I don't know if I can keep her going that long. I was thinking keeping her going 3 more days would be tough, but now I may be doing it 18 more days.


----------



## ksalvagno

Sorry you are going through this. I hope things go well.


----------



## SalteyLove

Ugh, I'm so sorry. Your vet didn't feel that an inducing was necessary at this point? It would be very very sad to lose the kid (s) but if she already needs IV calcium at this stage the next few weeks would be very tough and expensive.


----------



## SandyNubians

SalteyLove said:


> Your vet didn't feel that an inducing was necessary at this point?


We did talk about it, but I think he is waiting for me to make the call. I have everything here and available. So I can do this at any time.



SalteyLove said:


> It would be very very sad to lose the kid (s) but if she already needs IV calcium at this stage the next few weeks would be very tough and expensive.


I do understand it will be tough and I'm gonna be honest. With everything I've read survival rate doesn't seem to be very high at all when they get to this point. However, I will do everything I can (within reasonable expenses) to save her and the kids. The earliest survival for kids, at least what I read is day 140. That is 14 days from now. We MIGHT be able to make it there.

And just because I want to make sure the info from my vet was correct this is what he wrote down for me. 
"For induction of labor. Give 5cc of Dexamethasone deep IM. 12 hours later follow up with 2cc of Lutalyse (Dinoprost tromethamine) IM. Labor should occur within 24-46 hours. If there are no signs of impending labor within 26 hours. Dose with 1.5cc of Lutalyse. Labor should occur within 20 hours. Do a cervical check every 4-6 hours. If dilation is not occurring. Call your veterinarian immediately"
Just making sure this is correct, as i have read other ways to do it as well. Such as giving dex 3 days prior, then using 2cc of lute. I also read that since dex is a steroid it should not be used lightly due to lowering the immune system. But at this point, I'm not sure that is such a problem.


----------



## Goats Rock

I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this. My only caution is regarding the Lute and you. Don't get any on you! 

I hope it all works out ok. Sending more prayers for you and the doe.


----------



## wifeof1

Oh I am so sorry Dottie and you are going through this. Hugs


----------



## Dwarf Dad

I am sorry you are going through this, pulling for you and Dottie.


----------



## Sfgwife

Many many prayers for you and your dottie! You are doin great mama!


----------



## toth boer goats

Poor girl, praying she will be OK and kid with no issues.


----------



## GoofyGoat

I'm so so sorry! I'm praying for you and Dottie. She's a fighter and so are you. Hang in there!


----------



## SandyNubians

Thank you all :hug:
Vet is coming back tomorrow morning. I noticed about an hour ago she was breathing really rapidly. I called him and he told me to take her temp. It was 104.9. Her temp was completely normal earlier. He told me to start her on oxytetracycline. Which I don't have right now, so he said to start her on penicillin instead and to give her a couple aspirin until he can get here in the morning. If it's not one thing its another. Poor girl.


----------



## HoosierShadow

I'm really sorry. I've been worrying about you and Dottie all afternoon. I'm wondering if it's at all possible she has the start of pneumonia? I know I've heard of it happening with does who are dealing with toxemia.

I too worry about 14 days. That IMO is just so risky...  I know it's hard to make this call, been there and it's not easy at all. Things can change so rapidly with toxemia.

We have Boer so for a Boer doe we give 10cc of Dex. I'm guessing 5cc is probably very accurate for a smaller doe. 2cc Lute. The Dex will help the babies lungs rapidly mature and give them a better chance of survival. Lauren Green who I will mention below has mentioned it's possible to give a little dex daily to help lungs and help the does appetite. Now, randomly I've heard this was just enough to cause the does to go into labor, but other times not. Everything is a gamble.
Or... when you induce you can give 1cc Dex each day and after they kid I believe you can increase (can't remember how much), and then gradually wean them off as they start feeling better. It helps with the does appetite as well.

Lauren Green has a toxemia drench that I highly recommend. It's what I started using to get my girls through toxemia: http://abga.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Pregnancy-Toxemia-Lauren-Green.pdf
She has been a major help to me in the past when I've dealt with toxemia issues.


----------



## SandyNubians

That's what the vet is assuming as well. Due to her not getting up and moving he said it's likely she developed pneumonia. I'll read through that as soon as I can. Thank you! I really wish i had something else other than pen g to treat but roads are flooded (That's what i get from living next to a river) and there is no way I can leave right now. I gave her pen g, and aspirin about an hour ago and she is definitely not breathing near as hard. I also haven't heard any teeth grinding since a half hour ago either. I just finished giving her Calcium gluconate sub q. And I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## bisonviewfarm

Praying for you and Dottie


----------



## NigerianNewbie

You and Dottie are in my thoughts. (console)


----------



## SandyNubians

I'm going to be spending the night with her. I just don't want to risk it at this point. She is still breathing pretty heavily. But not terrible. She is much perkier. I gave her a few cheerios. And she gulped them down. She really wanted her molasses water. She is eating a bite of hay every now and again. Baby is kicking up a storm so it seems alright as well. And just as I was writing this dotty got up and chased(well took a step) the cat out of her area. That is great to see. Hopefully, we do alright overnight. I have to get up every couple hours(if I can even sleep) and will update if I see any more improvement.


----------



## GoofyGoat

Yay! Nibbling and drinking is good! Chasing cats is a good way to move around! You go Dottie!
I'm sorry this is so hard for you right now. You're in my thoughts and I'm sending every ounce of positive energy I can muster your way. You're an amazing lady and a terrific goat momma!


----------



## SandyNubians

@GoofyGoat Thank you so much! I think your positive energy is working! She is eating loads now! Temp is 104.3 so it's lowering!

Still eating as I write this (3 minutes from taking the pictures)


----------



## GoofyGoat

SandyNubians said:


> @GoofyGoat Thank you so much! I think your positive energy is working! She is eating loads now! Temp is 104.3 so it's lowering!
> 
> Still eating as I write this (3 minutes from taking the pictures)
> View attachment 143913
> View attachment 143915


That-a-girl! I knew you were a fighter! Keep it up! I take no credit but give full credit to Dotties very dedicated and awesome goat momma.


----------



## Trollmor

Found this thread just now, and Oh! how I feel with you, Dotty!! Are you in pain as well, dearie?


----------



## GoofyGoat

How did the night go? You both doing ok? Isn't your other doe due really soon too?


----------



## toth boer goats

Praying she is still doing OK.


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## SandyNubians

Well, she survived the night! Right after I posted the last post about her eating she stopped. She refused hay, water, nutridrench, and cheerios. They were the only thing she had continued to eat throughout this whole thing so that concerned me. About an hour after that, she couldn't lift her head up anymore. She could hold it for 2-3 seconds and then it fell straight down. She started to drool and would get stiff for 2-3 second. When she was peeing she started to push, almost like when they are in labor. I really didn't think she would live overnight. I went inside and got about an hour of sleep and then at 2 when I went to give her pen G prepared for the worst when I walked into see her. To my surprise, she was alive! And was even holding her head up. I gave her calcium and Pen G, and then tried cheerios again. She refused them. Then I tried hay, and she ate about 4 bites. I tried water (which she had refused since early that night) and she gulped loads of it down. And then she at a very small bite of alfalfa pellets. Vet came over. He said he didn't see much more he could do. He said to continue with Pen G but double the normal dose, calcium, dextrose, and molasses and Karo. He took blood and I'm currently waiting on a call to make sure kidney, liver, etc are fine. Her temp a minute ago was 104.0 still high, but much better than last night. We talked about inducing and cesarean but I will put another post about that later. She also has no more heavy breathing. She sounded like a dog panting last night, constantly. Really fast breaths and sometimes had to really force to get a breath out. About 3 hours ago that completely stopped. She sounds perfectly normal and isn't struggling to breathe. She is by no mean out of the woods yet, but we are getting better. I am extremely tired. I haven't showered in over a week. Taking a shower, drenching and giving her her calcium, then I'm taking a quick nap and will report back. Thank you, everyone, for the support. It really means a lot.


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## GoofyGoat

My goodness, what a night. That is one heck of a story. ****HUGS**** and scratches for Dottie.


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## Dwarf Dad

GoofyGoat said:


> My goodness, what a night. That is one heck of a story. ****HUGS**** and scratches for Dottie.


Ditto!


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## HoosierShadow

I'm really sorry... toxemia is devastating, heartbreaking and sad. I know what your going through, it's absolutely stressful and to not know what the next move should be. 

Did the vet say when her blood work results would be back? Praying sooner rather than later. 
I'm glad the heavy breathing stopped. But I'm really worried for her and for you. Praying for a miracle.


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## NicoleV

This must be so stressful for both of you. 

If it were me, and this was a doe that brought me happiness whenever I saw her, I would just induce her now so she aborts the kids as long as you and the vet think she has enough energy left to actually birth the kids. Yes it will be heartbreaking to lose those kids that you've felt kicking all this time, but imagine how devastating it would be if you lost all of them because of toxemia that you've let keep going this long even though you had the meds to end it. (I'm not blaming you, just warning you about how you might feel in the future). 

Just my opinion, so please don't take it in a bad way. I had just about the same situation last year with an old overweight doe that was accidentally bred. She started to get toxemia about 4 days before she was going to kid. Although she never went down, she did start going off feed and that was my last straw. I felt so guilty that I didn't remove my buck in time and I felt like it would be 100% my fault if I let my doe suffer because of my mistake. I took her to the vet to be induced and when I left the vet's office with her in their care she went downhill. They had to give her IV dextrose and insulin because her body wasn't even producing enough insulin to handle all the sugar she needed. The vet told me later that she was glad I took her in when I did because they were able to give her the insulin right away. She ended up kidding later that night and was stabilized by the next morning and I took the whole family home. I was so glad it turned out ok. 

I just don't want you to be heartbroken. You can always have more goat kids, but you can't replace your doe! She's one of a kind.


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## SandyNubians

Well, since I have the time and it was brought up, here is what I and the vet talked about as far as inducing and cesarean go. For those who don't want to read through I will say, I don't know what I'm doing yet. I need to figure it out over the weekend. If everything goes alright anyways.

Okay, now the long explanation. After we talked over basic things and got her assessed, I brought up induction. He said I need to make that call. I have to decide who I want to have the best chance. And of course that is a very hard decision. Dottie is amazing. She is everything to me. But her kids are a part of her too. And they are still alive and fighting, Dottie is too. The vet said, nothing is engraved in stone but he would give me what his expectations of what he thinks would happen. He said yes I can induce now. If the kids aren't due until when we think they are, they will not be viable. With that and the way she is, her survival with induction now is a risk for her as well. Yes, she may be okay, but there is a good chance she would need a cesarian or would pass away, during, or post labor. It is definitely a big risk. Especially considering her problems and age. Now, if we allow her to go through, until at least 138 days(10 days from now) or even until day 135 (1 week from now) We have much, much better chance of saving the kid(s) and there is even a possibility if we can get her that far, perhaps we can save them all. But of course, there is still a big risk we can lose all of them before then as well. I just don't know. Either way, I can lose all of them. I am going to call in with my decision on Monday, as long as she is still alive and an ultrasound confirms the kid is alive as well. If that is the case and she is eating, and not in any pain I think I will try and keep her going until the last few days of January. If she isn't eating, drinking or is in pain. Whether it is tomorrow or Monday, we will immediately induce her. It is a really hard decision and I still need to think it all over.


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## Dwarf Dad

I feel for you. This is so hard for you. Hang in there and don't second guess yourself. No matter what, you have all of us standing with you!


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## Trollmor

Pushing when peeing, eh? You and your vet have made sure she has not an urine stone, in addition to all the other problems?

Is an induced labour as "easy" as a natural one? Will the kids "understand" it is time to move into position?


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## GoofyGoat

Wow, I'm so sorry you're faced with this agonizing decision. I have faith that you'll do what's right for you, Dottie and the kid(s). You don't need my opinion just my support, which you have whole heartedly.
*******Hugs for you and scratches for Dottie!*******


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## jschies

Hoping things are okay...


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## SandyNubians

jschies said:


> Hoping things are okay...


Things are actually going pretty well. Her temp this morning was 103.8 and that was over 10 hours ago. I need to check her again soon. She is much, much brighter, even moved on her own twice today. She ate hay, some leaves and branches I found for her, and is drinking all her "magic" water again. This is the best I have seen her in days (knock on wood) I know I shouldn't get my hopes up too high as all the threads I have read on PT so far seem to have these ups and downs. They are doing bad, then they do good, then they go downhill again. Less than 2 weeks left until she is in the safe range.


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## jschies

That is great!!! I was getting worried..


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## toth boer goats

Good hearing that.


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## Trollmor

SandyNubians said:


> This is the best I have seen her in days (knock on wood)


O-Kay! (doh)(doh)(doh)This is one of the goats I am pretty worried for. Please give her some extra strokes, from me also! :inlove::inlove:


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## SandyNubians

Trollmor said:


> O-Kay! (doh)(doh)(doh)This is one of the goats I am pretty worried for. Please give her some extra strokes, from me also! :inlove::inlove:


I did give her some extra pets just a moment ago. She was all sassy about it and decided should bump me with her head if I stopped. That is great! She also welcomed me with her normal bleat. I haven't heard her since she went down and stopped eating. She was eating pretty good when I went out there as well.


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## Trollmor

Whatever has been worrying her seems to be slowly healing. This hope is my main reason for not interfering with her pregnancy.


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## GoofyGoat

That's the best news I've heard in a long time! Whahooo! You go Dottie.


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## Trollmor

Yeah, go for it, Dotty, you are the best!


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## HoosierShadow

Praying everything stays good.


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## dnchck

Praying for Dottie and her babies. You are a amazing goat mama!


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## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> Things are actually going pretty well. Her temp this morning was 103.8 and that was over 10 hours ago. I need to check her again soon. She is much, much brighter, even moved on her own twice today. She ate hay, some leaves and branches I found for her, and is drinking all her "magic" water again. This is the best I have seen her in days (knock on wood) I know I shouldn't get my hopes up too high as all the threads I have read on PT so far seem to have these ups and downs. They are doing bad, then they do good, then they go downhill again. Less than 2 weeks left until she is in the safe range.


You are an amazing goat mama! And go dottie!


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## toth boer goats

Praying as well.

How are things today?


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## SandyNubians

toth boer goats said:


> Praying as well.
> 
> How are things today?


Things are great! Temp was down to 102.6 so we are back in the normal range. She is chewing her cud again and eating pretty well. She is also moving loads! However, her poor udder looks ouchy. She stood up and I managed to get a look at it. It is dry, red, raw and looks painful! I take it it's from sitting and peeing all over it. Poor girl. I rubbed some coconut oil on it. I ordered udder balm but it doesn't get her until Wednesday. Vet is coming this afternoon. Hopefully. We have a windy day ahead. 30Mph winds with gusts up to 50mph. That's a lot of wind, at least for around here :hide:


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## HoosierShadow

That is great news! I've been thinking about you guys and praying!! How are her ketones? I hope they are staying under control. If you can get baby diaper rash ointment until the udder balm comes that can really help with the urine scald.


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## toth boer goats

I agree.

Glad she is feeling a bit better.


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## GoofyGoat

That's fantastic news! Way to go Dottie. If you put desitin diaper rash cream on her udder it will protect it until the udder balm gets here. Just a thought. I used it on a dog who was immobile and it worked great stopping the skin from breaking down. Bonus it has a lot of zinc in it which is good for goats


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## SandyNubians

Okay, I'll try and grab some in a few. Hopefully it will help her cause she is painful down there. I actually haven't checked her ketones in a few days. I'll have to check them next time I catch her pee. Vet was down here earlier. Not much to report. I got her blood results. He said everything looks okay. Wasn't good, but wasn't terrible either. He checked her temp and cervix and said temp was good (Knew that already) he said she still doesn't feel ready yet. Keep doing what I'm doing. We are taking her in for an ultrasound Friday. Just to make sure baby(ies) are still okay. I haven't felt them today at all. She should be on day 130. We are planning to induce her on February 1st or 2nd if everything is well. She should have them on February 3rd or 4th. Which would be either day 143 or 144 which I think is pretty safe especially with dex. IF it all goes well anyways. Still not trying to plan too far ahead, just in case.


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## GoofyGoat

I'll just keep sending positive energy your way! I'm glad the vet thought she is doing alright all things considered, that's a little trooper you have there. Hang in there! Give Dottie a scratch from me


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## HoosierShadow

Glad to hear all is going well. Curious, what did he mean by her blood test not being good? Did he explain what was off?


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## bisonviewfarm

Glad she's doing a better hopefully she'll stay that wIt till the babys are ready to make an appearance


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## Trollmor

Sheers and support hugs, Dotty! But, why start a labour one week before supposed delivery?


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## GoofyGoat

So how's sweet Dottie doing today? 
I'm a bit late with my daily check in so I hope all is going as well as yesterday if not better!


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## Dwarf Dad

Time for Dottie fix.


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## SandyNubians

HoosierShadow said:


> Glad to hear all is going well. Curious, what did he mean by her blood test not being good? Did he explain what was off?


I'm actually not sure. Too tired to ask. I just asked him if they were good or bad. I'll call tommorw or ask when he is here next.



Trollmor said:


> Sheers and support hugs, Dotty! But, why start a labour one week before supposed delivery?


I just want to get it over with as quick as I can so she doesn't relapse. From what I have been reading most fainting goats, especially minis tend to go on 145-48 so she should be going only a few days before. Hopefully. If she is doing really well we may just let her do it on her own or induce labor slowly with just dex.



GoofyGoat said:


> So how's sweet Dottie doing today?
> I'm a bit late with my daily check in so I hope all is going as well as yesterday if not better!


She isn't doing better, but isn't doing worse either. I'll take it! Still eating, drinking, and moving some. Not eating a lot, and definitely not moving a lot, but much better than when I thought she was going to pass away! Only 9 more days until we are in a safe range.


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## Dwarf Dad

Still pulling for her! Thank you for update.


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## GoofyGoat

That-a-girl Dottie! (And of course momma)
Keep nibbling and scooting around. You'll have those adorable little ones soon!

BTW how's her udder? Did you get some Desitin? Poor baby I know it'll make it less sore.


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## HoosierShadow

Yeah that was scary the other day when you thought you were going to lose her. Reminds me of the scary times with our girls who had toxemia  It's truly the biggest killer of Boer goats, and I very seldom have ever seen it come up in other breeds. 

I am curious about the blood test so if it's not a bother... I don't know many who have had blood work done on their does with toxemia, so if it's really a useful tool I think it would be a useful tool for toxic does to see how it affects them vs. just seeing what a necropsy result says if the doe and/or kids didn't make it. I know if we have a toxemia case more than 2 weeks out I'd definitely want to know if the toxemia is doing any damage that blood work would show.


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## Trollmor

So Dotty is a fainting goat? Didn't understand that before.


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## SandyNubians

HoosierShadow said:


> I am curious about the blood test so if it's not a bother... I don't know many who have had blood work done on their does with toxemia, so if it's really a useful tool I think it would be a useful tool for toxic does to see how it affects them vs. just seeing what a necropsy result says if the doe and/or kids didn't make it. I know if we have a toxemia case more than 2 weeks out I'd definitely want to know if the toxemia is doing any damage that blood work would show.


Okay, I'm sorry I can't be much more help here. I called them this morning right after they opened before he got busy. I don't know if it is the lack of sleep or just that i didn't really understand everything he was saying. He was using a lot of number, and abbreviations that I didn't really understand. This is about what I got out of it. Both her kidney and her liver levels were high. They weren't terribly high, but they were definitely higher than they should be. That may or may not be because of PT. He said she is obese so it could be possible she has kidney disease. PT may have damaged her liver and that's why it is high, but it may also be a different underlying issue. With that, her blood sugar was very low, and ketones were relatively high. That was likely because of PT. I called before I went out to feed and drench so I may not be remembering everything here. I'll talk to him about it on Friday when we are getting her an ultrasound.



Trollmor said:


> So Dotty is a fainting goat? Didn't understand that before.


Yep, but she is a smaller version of one. Some are larger, standard goat size others, like dottie, are about the size of a pygmy or nigerian. The large ones seem to go the standard 150 days. But it seems the small ones go in the 145 day range.


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## Trollmor

I was pondering, if perhaps that gene(s?) for fainting might be causing other difficulties as well, have no knowledge about that.


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## mariarose

HoosierShadow said:


> How I didn't see the updates for the past several days I don't know.


I also am not getting notifications! 
I see I have much to catch up on. 70 messages I haven't read!


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## mariarose

Oh, my. 45 more messages. Oh my.


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## SandyNubians

GoofyGoat said:


> BTW how's her udder? Did you get some Desitin? Poor baby I know it'll make it less sore.


Oh sorry, Goofygoat. I didn't see this. I did get some! She already looks, and probably feels SO much better.

This was on Sunday after i rubbed some coconut oil on it.




















This was her udder a few minutes ago(Its the opposite side of the one on Sunday, but that side is also looking better now.)













On a side note. Does her udder look okay? It seems off-color to me. Maybe that's just the way it looks though. It's pretty tight, but not really, tight as in basketball tight.


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## toth boer goats

It kinda looks as if it is bruised?
Can you get a vet to look at her.


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## GoofyGoat

Her udder looks like Droms who's also a black goat. I think it's just the blood vessels closer to the surface making it look off color. I'm so glad the Desitin is helping. 
I read what the vet said about Dotties liver panel...I really think it's from the toxemia and should go mostly back to normal after she gives birth. All the different drugs she's had probably altered things just enough to throw the results off a bit. I'd redo them about a month after she delivers to verify before I'd worry. Just a thought.
Give little Dottie a scratch for me


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks for posting about the results. I definitely think her high levels are from toxemia, as that is what toxemia does to their organs. The doe we lost in 2017 to toxemia died because the toxemia destroyed her liver  
Hopefully you can keep her stable so she can keep going for another week.

I'm glad the Desitin is helping. I always use baby rash ointment on mild cases of scald on udders, it works great.


----------



## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> Okay, I'm sorry I can't be much more help here. I called them this morning right after they opened before he got busy. I don't know if it is the lack of sleep or just that i didn't really understand everything he was saying. He was using a lot of number, and abbreviations that I didn't really understand. This is about what I got out of it. Both her kidney and her liver levels were high. They weren't terribly high, but they were definitely higher than they should be. That may or may not be because of PT. He said she is obese so it could be possible she has kidney disease. PT may have damaged her liver and that's why it is high, but it may also be a different underlying issue. With that, her blood sugar was very low, and ketones were relatively high. That was likely because of PT. I called before I went out to feed and drench so I may not be remembering everything here. I'll talk to him about it on Friday when we are getting her an ultrasound.
> 
> Yep, but she is a smaller version of one. Some are larger, standard goat size others, like dottie, are about the size of a pygmy or nigerian. The large ones seem to go the standard 150 days. But it seems the small ones go in the 145 day range.


How is the sweet lil lady doin today? How are YOU? You KNOW you need time for you too right?!?!!!


----------



## Trollmor

Love from me, too, to the two of you!


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## Dwarf Dad

How was vet visit and ultrasound?


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## GoofyGoat

Daily Dottie check, how's the sweet baby today?


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## SandyNubians

Dwarf Dad said:


> How was vet visit and ultrasound?


We are going in tomorrow at 12. I still haven't felt kids yet so I'm not too hopeful. If they are deceased we will induce her before we leave.

She was a little lethargic this morning, not terribly so, but not as active as she has been. That may just be end of pregnancy though. Her temp is still perfectly normal 102.6. She is still eating and happily gulps her water and drench down. Udder is looking better and she doesn't get upset when I touch it now.


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## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> We are going in tomorrow at 12. I still haven't felt kids yet so I'm not too hopeful. If they are deceased we will induce her before we leave.
> 
> She was a little lethargic this morning, not terribly so, but not as active as she has been. That may just be end of pregnancy though. Her temp is still perfectly normal 102.6. She is still eating and happily gulps her water and drench down. Udder is looking better and she doesn't get upset when I touch it now.


Yay for dottie today! Prayers for tomorrow.


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## Trollmor

So what does she eat? *thinking of her rumen*


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## GoofyGoat

I really hope all goes well today! Prayers for both of you.


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## Dwarf Dad

Good luck on vet visit!


----------



## toth boer goats

How did it go?


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## SandyNubians

toth boer goats said:


> How did it go?


My BF just left with her a few minutes ago. Sucks I couldn't go but I am watching another doe, then I need to go to work. He will text me as soon as he knows and then I'll post it here as soon as I get the text.


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## NicoleV

I hope she keeps hanging on! She's the energizer bunny!


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## SandyNubians

Woohoo! Just got a text. They found 2 heartbeats, live kids! They are headed home now. I have to go to work but will update as soon as I have time. I am so happy! (dance)(dance)


----------



## Sfgwife

toth boer goats said:


> How did it go?


Stinkin time differences! Ughh! Makin us wait longer than our noon.


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## HoosierShadow

Awww that is great news! I hope she is doing well. What day is she on now?


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## bisonviewfarm

Yay! Awesome news!


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## GoofyGoat

Fantastic! Oh, I'm so very happy for you! Thata girl Dottie!


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## SandyNubians

HoosierShadow said:


> Awww that is great news! I hope she is doing well. What day is she on now?


She should be on day 134. Only 6 days left until we are safe. Depending on how she is about 9 or 10 days until she kids. I am so ready for this to be over!


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## Goats Rock

Hang on Dottie! You all are doing a fantastic job.


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## Trollmor

Hey, Dotty, how are YOU doing now? :inlove:


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## GoofyGoat

Day 135 and counting!
How's the sweet little lady his morning? Yesterday's news was so exciting. Precious babies from her I can't wait to see pictures


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## SandyNubians

She's down again  She was fine after she got back, she didn't eat but I didn't think it was a problem. I went out at 4 and she refused drench, water, and hay. She didn't move at all last night and this morning is limp again. Going to keep trying. At least I have work off for the next 2 weeks so I can stay with her.


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## ksalvagno

Poor thing. I hope things go well.


----------



## bisonviewfarm

Oh no poor girl hoping she perks back up for you and can keep those babys in just a little while longer.


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## toth boer goats

Were her ketones checked and is she getting enough calcium?
Don't allow her to lay that way, try to encourage her to get up and walk.

Get a temp on her in case.

It isn't good to transport goats late term pregnant. I hope she isn't trying to go into labor from it. 

Have you told your vet what is going on with her?

Make sure she eats. 
Make a 1/4 cup alfalfa pellet/water slurry. 
And drench her slowly at the back corner of her mouth with a huge syringe or new turkey baster at the back corner of her mouth. 
Go out every couple of hours and do this.
Be sure she get electrolytes.


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## SandyNubians

I haven't caught her pee yet so I'm not sure on ketones. She has been getting calcium gluconate SQ since she went down last time. 150ml a day. Temp is 102.7 a little higher than yesterday. I have her propped up now. I really hope that's not what caused this. That would be awful. I'll give her some slurry. She did drink some water after I propped her up so that's good.


----------



## GoofyGoat

Oh geez, poor little girl. Sending my thoughts, prayers, and all things positive to you both. Give her a scratch for me and maybe some applesauce too. I know when my Luna wasn't feeling good she would chow down on applesauce...just a thought.


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## Trollmor

Hm, that does not look good. Poor dear Dotty! :inlove: I wonder, have you checked her amount of zink and copper? Those bare edges around the eyes...


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## nicolemackenzie

Yikes  she doesn't like great. Can vet/you give some IV fluids

Might need glucose too


----------



## SandyNubians

Trollmor said:


> I wonder, have you checked her amount of zink and copper? .


I haven't checked but I started putting human zinc pills in with her drench just over a week ago when I noticed it as well.



nicolemackenzie said:


> Yikes  she doesn't like great. Can vet/you give some IV fluids
> 
> Might need glucose too


If she gets worse over the day i will have the vet out. I really don't want to pay the emergency vet fee but if I have too I will. I would give her iv fluids and I have on cows, but I'm scared I would give her too much too quickly and end up with problems. For now, she is getting calcium gluconate, nutridrench, replamin, dextrose, magic, and I also have Propylene glycol to use if I absolutely have too.

I went out a bit ago and she was holding her head up. She still didn't eat her hay or alfalfa pellets but she ate a few cheerios, and some leaves I brought her. I managed to catch her pee. She is testing with small amount.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Any ketones in urine?


----------



## Goats Rock

Poor you. You certainly deserve a reward for hanging on and treating her with so much dedication and love. I'm sure it is very frustrating and heartbreaking to have to wonder everytime you go to the barn, what you will find. 

Try to find time to take care of yourself too!


----------



## NicoleV

If you don't see her pee, I think you can put some blood on the strip and that will show her ketones too, although I believe you're supposed to use the plasma only, but I bet you can use blood in a worst case scenario. 

I think the vet should give her IV insulin, dextrose, and calcium based on her levels, or lack of levels.


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Really pulling hard for you and Dottie! I think you are doing a magnificent job.


----------



## HoosierShadow

I'm so sorry, she definitely looks bad in the pic  If she is not peeing she is not drinking enough and that can be very bad as she can't flush the toxins from her body. I'd be drenching her with water if you can't at least do IV or SQ fluids. Add some molasses or electrolytes to the water for flavor, but make sure she isn't aspirating on it. Wish you could tube her, but not even I have tube fed a doe before, I've always drenched.

Back off on Nutridrench, it can burn their throats and IMO can affect appetite. What I did with our toxic does was a little Nutridrench in the recipe from Lauren that I've mentioned many times, and alternated it with Power Punch. Propylene Glycol is very hard on the gut and can also affect their appetite. 

Did she stress going to the vets office? It's definitely hard on does to move them. When you mentioned taking her, that was my thought, wish I had said something. The vet should have come to her, not her come to them...JMO.


----------



## Trollmor

Oh dear, you do work! We love you, Dotty! :inlove:


----------



## GoofyGoat

How's Dottie today? Is she eating and drinking? Did you try applesauce? 
I'm praying she's doing better! Give her a scratch for me! Hugs for you!


----------



## SandyNubians

She is doing much much better today. Moving, eating some and drinking. I caught her pee yesterday and she tested with small amounts. She was testing trace this morning. Temp is still normal. I gave her probios because I totally forgot to do that after the pen G, so maybe that is helping her to feel better.


----------



## GoofyGoat

SandyNubians said:


> She is doing much much better today. Moving, eating some and drinking. I caught her pee yesterday and she tested with small amounts. She was testing trace this morning. Temp is still normal. I gave her probios because I totally forgot to do that after the pen G, so maybe that is helping her to feel better.


FANTASTIC! Dottie had me worried yesterday. I kept checking the thread so often that I was sure someone would think I was stalking her lol.
Thata girl Dottie (and momma) You're in the home stretch now!


----------



## dnchck

Praying for you girl and babies!


----------



## Trollmor

Well done so far, both of you! We love you, Dotty with humans!


----------



## Ranger1

When my doe was in rough shape after a cesarean, it was recommended that I give her Ensure shakes for nourishment, until she began eating.


----------



## Trollmor

I do hope poor dear Dotty will not have to go through a surgery in addition to all her present troubles! :hug:


----------



## Ranger1

^I’m not saying that, just sharing what we used on our doe as a source of calories and fat to help her through until she was feeling better, in case it might be helpful to Dotty too.


----------



## toth boer goats

Glad she is hanging in there.

Hope she is still doing OK.


----------



## SandyNubians

Still doing well. I about had a heart attack earlier. She wasn't in the garage like she normally is and hasn't left it in a few weeks. I freaked out and then saw her in the middle of the lawn eating grass and leaves. So she got up, went through the dog door and a few feet outside and under a tree! I am hoping she was just down because of stress or babies putting pressure on her, and hoping that is all past her. Just a few days left.


----------



## NicoleV

I'm actually surprised that she only had low amounts of ketones for being down and not eating very much lately.


----------



## SandyNubians

NicoleV said:


> I'm actually surprised that she only had low amounts of ketones for being down and not eating very much lately.


She was high up until later today. For the last week or 2, she was testing moderate levels. A couple days ago she was testing small and then was trace. She just drank a lot of water so hoping if I catch her pee I can test again and make sure I didn't just have a defective strip (I read complaints on the strips I bought of people saying they didn't work)


----------



## NicoleV

They might not be defective, my doe that had ketosis went up and down according to the strips, but she never went below moderate towards the end of her pregnancy. I guess each doe handles it differently. Mine never went down physically. The only signs she had ketosis were in the strips, and going off feed. The morning I took her to the vet, she was at the highest level and the strip turned dark beet red! I didn't see how she was while she was at the vet's overnight though.


----------



## Trollmor

Eating grass and leaves, hurrah!


----------



## GoofyGoat

She got up and went for a walk wow! That's good...maybe she was sick of hay and pellets and decided to get something different herself. Good girl Dottie! What day is this 138 or 139? She's getting into the safe zone soon.
Really great news!


----------



## SandyNubians

GoofyGoat said:


> She got up and went for a walk wow! That's good...maybe she was sick of hay and pellets and decided to get something different herself. Good girl Dottie! What day is this 138 or 139? She's getting into the safe zone soon.
> Really great news!


 Day 137 today (if my brain is working) 3 more days until we are safe! That will be a high sigh of relief.

Not much to report today which is good! Still doing exactly the same as yesterday. I moved her out into the yard to eat while it was warm and sunny out.


----------



## GoofyGoat

Yay! Great news!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

That is good news! Two days in a row doing well.


----------



## toth boer goats

YAY!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

You are doing such a good job!


----------



## HoosierShadow

Awesome news!


----------



## Trollmor

Fine Dotty! We love you, keep on struggling!


----------



## GoofyGoat

How's Sweet Dottie today? Out and about eating leaves or inside getting ready for the deep freeze y'all are getting/going to get? 
I hope y'all stay warm enough, my old bones ache thinking about that cold. I've lived in many cold place but I don't tolerate well it any more so my heart goes out to you up there in Idaho.


----------



## SandyNubians

GoofyGoat said:


> How's Sweet Dottie today? Out and about eating leaves or inside getting ready for the deep freeze y'all are getting/going to get?
> I hope y'all stay warm enough, my old bones ache thinking about that cold. I've lived in many cold place but I don't tolerate well it any more so my heart goes out to you up there in Idaho.


Yes, she loved it outside! Very warm and sunny. She was eating some of the branches ftom the fruit trees (I only gave her 2 small ones though) then she scooted across the yard and went back under her normal tree to eat some of the grass. She is doing really well. Her udder is much bigger this morning I noticed, and her ligaments were close to gone. She also had some discharge. I just think she is getting ready. Either way, we only have 2 more days until she can go on her own. The weather actually changed and it was a good change! The snow we were supposed to get is now rain, and the cold temps are now much, much warmer. The lowest its going to be this week is 19°f and the highest is 50! on February 3rd. Then of course right after it is 31 and 3" of snow the very next day. The normals seems to be in the 35-38 this week though.


----------



## GoofyGoat

Im thrilled she's doing so well! That's such great news! I'm so happy for you, it's been so up and down, such a roller coaster ride. You've done such an amazing job getting her through those rough patches. I hope she gives you a doeling just as sweet and special as she is. Thanks for the update!


----------



## Trollmor

Well done, Dotty! New photo to all your fans in this thread?


----------



## GoofyGoat

Day 139 ...wow she's so close! How's the sweet girl doing today? I'm getting anxious to see her babies, so I can't imagine how excited you must be getting. I hope Dottie and Mary-Lou don't decide to kid at the same time, you'd really have your hands full. 
One more day...wow


----------



## SandyNubians

Had the vet out, hopefully for the last time if all goes well. He said she is seeming ready to go for the date we found! It's still nice and sunny out and she is loving every bit of it! She will scoot across the yard and will stand up to drink.

Here is a picture of her udder.






It is looking so much better! I have been massaging it and putting a warm compress (vet said to do this in case she was cutting off circulation to it) I haven't been able to see her udder for weeks, and it is so good to see how it is looking. She has also taken a great liking to her alfalfa pellets. She hasn't touched them for a while. She has also lost a bit of weight (which is good) I used to not be able to feel her ribs at all at the beginning of the month, now I can feel them. Still not the best condition but much better then she was and I'm sure she feels a bit better too.


----------



## SalteyLove

Oh i love that photo of her laying down - she is contemplating getting up to nose the camera!


----------



## toth boer goats

She is cute.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

She looks so much better!


----------



## cbrossard

She has such a sweet face. We're rooting for you, Dottie!


----------



## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> Had the vet out, hopefully for the last time if all goes well. He said she is seeming ready to go for the date we found! It's still nice and sunny out and she is loving every bit of it! She will scoot across the yard and will stand up to drink.
> 
> Here is a picture of her udder.
> View attachment 145321
> It is looking so much better! I have been massaging it and putting a warm compress (vet said to do this in case she was cutting off circulation to it) I haven't been able to see her udder for weeks, and it is so good to see how it is looking. She has also taken a great liking to her alfalfa pellets. She hasn't touched them for a while. She has also lost a bit of weight (which is good) I used to not be able to feel her ribs at all at the beginning of the month, now I can feel them. Still not the best condition but much better then she was and I'm sure she feels a bit better too.


Awwww go dottie and maman goooooo!


----------



## Trollmor

Very nice to see you, Dotty! You look so much better, although there is still some trace of worry in your face. GOOD LUCK! - and pls tell us how you are doing!


----------



## SandyNubians

She is still doing good this morning. She did pee all over her self last night, but that's not a huge problem. I'll have to wash her with a rag once its warmer out.....

Well...we made it! It's day 140!!!(dance) We should have kids on the ground within the next 5 days. We gave her, her first shot of dex this morning(We decided to go with a series of dex shots rather than just one) we are planning to induce Saturday night/early Sunday morning for kids on Monday. The vet will be on call and waiting for updates. I cannot wait for this to be over.


----------



## NicoleV

Yay! She's made it so far! Are you hoping for girls or boys?


----------



## GoofyGoat

She made it WHAHOOOOO!
That a girl Dottie! Yipeeeeee!
I can't wait to see the babies!


----------



## SandyNubians

NicoleV said:


> Yay! She's made it so far! Are you hoping for girls or boys?


As long as they are healthy I will take whatever! I am always hoping for does (Unless it's a boer) but with her, I don't care. Whatever she has will be kept. Buck(s) will be wethered and does will be kept and (maybe) have a future as a milking doe.


----------



## NicoleV

SandyNubians said:


> As long as they are healthy I will take whatever! I am always hoping for does (Unless it's a boer) but with her, I don't care. Whatever she has will be kept. Buck(s) will be wethered and does will be kept and (maybe) have a future as a milking doe.


That's great! I also kept the 2 boys that my doe had, but I was really hoping for some doelings because the only other doe that I kept from her ended up breaking one of her back legs and the vet had to amputate it because of a bone infection that started in the fracture and was working is way up the leg. So she gets around on 3 legs, and I haven't bred her.

I think you'll enjoy her babies. I'm crossing my fingers for you guys that the delivery goes smoothly.


----------



## Ranger1

I've been following this thread and am amazed at your devotion to Dottie and her progress! I was trembling that she was going to make it far enough to be induced, and am so happy to read that she now has! I hope her delivery goes well, and I can hardly wait to see the babies!


----------



## Goats Rock

I am so glad she will be getting a series of Dex shots to strengthen the kids' lungs and to thin the cervix. 

An acquaintance has a doe the vet induced only with Lute. I suggested Dex first. Nope. (Vet knows nothing about goats). Kids were born, took a couple breaths and died. I have no idea why she was induced, absolutely no reason to, unlike your situation.


----------



## amandarenee

I literally sat here and read this entire thread start to finish--talk about an emotional roller coaster!!!  What a fighter this girl is--and you are amazing for helping her through all of this! I am sooo looking forward to a happy ending for the both of you!


----------



## top_goat

Just found this thread.... read it start to finish! WOW! A real page turner! So happy Dottie is doing better...kids coming soon. You have done an amazing job. The folks on this forum are second to none. WOW! Can't wait....


----------



## HoosierShadow

Glad to hear she's getting to the final stages! It's definitely been a roller coaster ride. Praying for a great outcome for mom and babies!


----------



## GoofyGoat

Just checking in. How's the little lady doing?


----------



## Trollmor

Yes, how are you doing, Dotty?


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Ggood morning all. Dottie check.


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## SandyNubians

It definitely was an emotional rollercoaster! I am so glad for this forum to have all you amazing people to help and comfort me throughout! We gave her, her 2nd round of dex this morning. Looks like I am giving her lute within the next 30 minutes. Vet called to checkup and told me that he wouldn't wait, especially if the standard buck got her. It won't make much a difference this close to the due date but it could help at least some with very slightly smaller kids. She didn't touch her hay or pellets this morning and I got scared. She is safe now, especially with the dex. And then there should be at least another 24hrs so she would only be kidding 2-3 days early (based on 145 days) I am extremely nervous!


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## SandyNubians

Well, It's done. No going back now. I just gave her the lute. 10:50 am. I'll be doing checks every 4 hours to make sure she is dilating/softening. We have our vets home phone number, as well as the emergency number for every livestock vet within 2 hours of us. Not much I can do other then wait.


----------



## mariella

I've been stalking this post sens the beginning and now I have to say good luck and prayers for a great outcome.


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## Jubillee

Watching. 

How long after lute is labor expected?


----------



## GoofyGoat

Hugs and prayers for both of you for an easy delivery and great outcome! I'll be on pins and needles until I know all is well!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Also watching and praying for Dottie!


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## SandyNubians

Jubillee said:


> How long after lute is labor expected?


From what I've been reading it normally happens within 24-48 hours. Average time is 30-36 hours after the shot is given. So she should be going tomorrow night between 6 and 10pm. Could be before or after then aswell. Thank you all :hug:


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## bisonviewfarm

Prayers for an easy delivery and some healthy little babys.


----------



## HoosierShadow

Praying for a smooth delivery! The ones we induced went in the 30-36 hour range. 
Do you have Dex on hand in case babies need it? If we have babies that struggle from toxemia/being induced, we've been able to pull them through it with a small shot of Dex. I've also kept B-Complex or Thiamine close by, and given some orally if they again are struggling or weak. Sometimes the Thiamine seems to help wake them up so to speak.
I know I've probably already said that in a previous post, but thought I'd share again as it's helped me with some kids over the years.
A side effect we had to kids born 6 days early a couple of years ago - one developed a swollen tongue and couldn't nurse properly. So check their tongues for any swelling. We pulled him to be a bottle baby anyway, and had to hold our fingers on either side of his mouth to keep his tongue in so he could nurse, it was actually quite funny lol. He was fine after a couple of days. 

Check the babies teeth to see if they have come through the gums, that will tell you if they are a little bit premature (under gums) or full term (erupted). 

Good luck! I'll be on the road tomorrow, but will try to check in when I make a pit stop! Every 4 hour checks are good!


----------



## cbrossard

Good luck!!


----------



## toth boer goats

:hug: Good luck.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Good luck!!!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Good luck!


----------



## Deborah Haney

Luck and hugs! It's gonna be weird not checking in on The Dottie Thread every day. So glad she pulled through!


----------



## GoofyGoat

How's the sweet momma-to-be doing today? I hope things are progressing without too much discomfort for her.


----------



## Trollmor

*holding thumbs and hoofs*


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Fingers crossed


----------



## Jubillee

Checking in too to see how she is!


----------



## Trollmor

Soon starting to gnaw on my nails ...


----------



## SandyNubians

Sorry, I haven't updated! I've been out in the barn with her and the internet was going in and out. Her udder has slowly gotten bigger overnight and just as I suspected her one teat still doesn't work. The other one is full and is working though. I should be able to get a few ozs of colostrum. She just now started to have discharge. Poor girl is grunting and looks miserable. However, she is eating like a hog now. Ate a flake of hay, a bunch of her minerals, and some pellets. One ligament is gone, I think. The other is close to it. I'm supposed to be checking and making sure she is dialating but I honestly can't really tell. I thought I felt the cervix, but there is so much tissue. All it feels like is tissue, I get past that and hit another pocket of tissue, a litter further and I hit some more so I honestly can't tell. We are about 24hrs since I gave her lute so it should be happening within the next 14 hours or so. Right now I'm just checking, and double checking I have everything I need. I'll try and keep you all updated on her progress!


----------



## Trollmor

*Beginning to gnaw on my nails!* :inlove:


----------



## GoofyGoat

Geez, I never thought I'd have a sleepless night for a goat 6 or so states away,... but it looks like I'm going to. Prayers for you both!


----------



## top_goat

my nails are already gone. Trying to remind myself to breathe... Go Dottie! We're all rootin' for ya!


----------



## SandyNubians

Looks like she is starting to have contractions. I think. She doesn't stand up but looks like she is arching her body. I have a few family members in the house that came out to help out if needed. I notified the vet that she started contraction and he is keeping his phone on him. I say within the next 4-5 hours.


----------



## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> Looks like she is starting to have contractions. I think. She doesn't stand up but looks like she is arching her body. I have a few family members in the house that came out to help out if needed. I notified the vet that she started contraction and he is keeping his phone on him. I say within the next 4-5 hours.


Go go go lil lady! We are all rootin for you all! And. Dottie girl... your poor tired maman needs a rest!


----------



## GoofyGoat

I'm glad you have such a great support system set up. Hugs for you and scratches for the little sweetheart Dottie.


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent, happy kidding.


----------



## SandyNubians

Looks like we are getting closer. Frequent contractions and she just passed some more discharge.


----------



## Goat_Scout

(pray) Hoping for a safe delivery!


----------



## GoofyGoat

Come on Sweet Dottie you're almost there!


----------



## toth boer goats

Happy Kidding.


----------



## Goats Rock

Sending more good thoughts and encouragement from NE Ohio.


----------



## Deborah Haney

I know I'm supposed to be working but I am on the edge of my seat checking up on Dottie


----------



## cbrossard

Oh man! This is so nerve-wracking. I can't imagine how You feel!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

Time to eat. I'll check back before bed, at least once.


----------



## HoosierShadow

How are things going?


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Oh I hope things are going well! Know no matter what happens that you have done above and beyond for Dottie and her babies.


----------



## SandyNubians

HoosierShadow said:


> How are things going?


About the same as before. I think what I was seeing earlier was her stretching. Now I am seeing definite contractions. It absolutely POURING rain. I cannot hear a thing and power has gone out 3 times now. The road is flooded (This is times when I hate living next to a river)
At least it's supposed to slow down shortly. Supposed to rain from now until 11 tomorrow


----------



## GoofyGoat

Glad that things are going ok. I hope the power stays on for you. Sounds like It's going to be a long night for you. Hang in there .


----------



## Dwarf Dad

I hope it slows down in case the vet needs to come. Not wishing that on you, one less worry. Good luck.


----------



## SandyNubians

Well, now I'm freaking out. It's currently 2am. I gave her the lute 40 hours ago. I know that it can take longer but shouldn't I see something by now? Vet told me to go in and check, and I did. But it feels strange. I have gone in a few does before but they were already in labor and pushing. I can almost get my entire hand in but no further than that. I feel a hole attached to a long tube with a pocket on the end if that makes since. Vet said it's probably the urethral opening. I feel a absolutely nothing else. She pushes when I put my hand in and it feels like a water bag pushing back but it is on the other side of a wall. Udder doubled about 15-20 hours after, her ligaments have been completely gone since about 30 hours after I gave lute. She has been contracting starting about 6ish hours ago, and I think I saw her push 2 or 3 times (lip curled up and she appeared to push lightly) I just rubbed some lute on a glove and tried to spread it in there best I could about 15 minutes ago. She has also started to breath heavy as of about 1 hour ago. She doesn't seem to be in distress and is still chewing her cud, but I am freaking out.


----------



## Deborah Haney

I'm sorry that I have no useful advice. If it was me I would call in someone else (vet, experienced neighbor, etc.) but I have no experience at all. Pulling for you, Dottie!


----------



## Trollmor

*Gnawing wildly* This sounds as bad as I feared ... Dear Dotty!


----------



## GoofyGoat

I am hoping and praying every is ok. Do you have oxytocin to help strengthen the contractions or does the vet recommend something else? Have you tried to reposition her? I know when I worked OB sometimes we'd move a mom from one side to the other to help move things along and keep a good blood supply coming to the babies and uterus. It couldn't hurt and might help.


----------



## Trollmor

I think that COULD hurt... The mother is the one who has first information about the position inside her. I am alarmed that the hand does not come in, thinking of many kinds of problems. Stronger contractions might press a kid into the mother's tissue, or damage it, if wrong positioned. In this case I do wish for some kind of ultra sound ...

*still gnawing wildly*


----------



## GoofyGoat

No, I mean if she's laying on right side move her so she's laying on her left side. It can help


----------



## Trollmor

Yes, if she just cannot get up herself. This side-to-side movement is normal, but this is not a normal delivery, is it?
*gnawing*


----------



## Jubillee

Praying everything went ok.....


----------



## wifeof1

You have no Idea how many of us are silently watching this unfold and how we are all hopeful for Dottie and her kids .


----------



## nicolemackenzie

As you go in the vulva push up gently to try and skip over the urethras opening.

If you hit a small hole and your hand isn't in far at all then back up slightly and tilt your hand up and go farther in that way.

Your arm should be in a ways not just your hand.

There should be a hole or a baby goat.


----------



## SandyNubians

There is none of that. I drew quickly while inside sorta what it felt like. Absolutely no opening at all. I felt for a good 7 minutes. The only opening is at the tip of the tubish thing and I don't want to try and go in something that small. Everywhere else under and around it is completely sealed off. I felt everywhere and absolutely nothing. The vet said he will come out as soon as weather and roads permit him. We are giving her until 11. 48 hours after the shot before we get really serious and if the vet still can't make it out, I'll start to think about doing something I really was hoping I wouldn't have to do. She is just chewing her cud acting like the there is not a care in the world. She had definite contraction last night and I believe she pushed a few times lightly as well. Then everything stopped and we are where we are right now. Lots and lots of discharge, udder is so tight and uncomfortable looking, and ligs are 100% gone.


----------



## Jubillee

Praying for Dottie. Hoping the vet gets out and everyone is safe.


----------



## GoofyGoat

Oh my, praying for Dottie! it's got to be agonizing for you being so close. I truely hope for a good outcome. Do you have raspberry leaves? They might help. I don't know what else to offer except long distance hugs and scratches. I hope the weather lets up enough for the vet to get there soon! Maybe milking her out will stimulate more contractions. That's what humans are told to help the uterus contract post partum. Just an idea. You could save it too.


----------



## cbrossard

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Hoping the vet gets there soon to help!


----------



## toth boer goats

Do not milk her until she kids.

Do not give any oxytocin, it can kill her if her body isn't ready and dilated, if she isn't it true labor.

I am concerned her body isn't ready to have her babies so, don't do anything there, it may hurt her, if she is not dilated and the kid isn't at the door.

Hopefully the vet can shed some light there.
Do an ultrasound and see if the kid is headed to the door.
And feel for himself if she is ready or has to be manually stimulated to dilate.

We cannot see or feel what is going on, so, we really cannot guide you on what is happening or what to do.
The drawing is a bit confusing.

If she hasn't really barred down and really getting to business, the lute may not of done it's total job. 
Sometimes it doesn't happen.
Do you know how much he gave her of Lute?

I pray all will be OK and the vet gets there soon.


----------



## SandyNubians

She's gone.


----------



## SalteyLove

I'm so so sorry. You worked so very hard and gave her the best care.


----------



## GoofyGoat

I'm so so very sorry! She's your guardian angel now.


----------



## toth boer goats

I am so very sorry, you tried so hard.


----------



## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry.


----------



## amandarenee

:'(
:imsorry:


----------



## bisonviewfarm

Im so sorry


----------



## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> She's gone.


My heart is broken for YOU! Go try to rest now and know that you were the absolute best!


----------



## wifeof1

Oh No! I'm so sorry you are going through this. You put your heart and soul into her. My heart breaks with yours.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Oh no I'm so sorry!!! You did so much for her and her babies. Sorry it turned out this way


----------



## HoosierShadow

OMG I am so sorry! That is not the outcome I expected at all! Absolutely heartbreaking :'( 
I know you are in a rough spot as anyone of us would be after how far you've come. Your in my thoughts and prayers. Your definitely not alone, we're here for you.


----------



## SandyNubians

Right after I posted my last post(when she was alive) she started to push. She kept pushing for about 20 minutes with absolutely nothing happening. I went in and realized the thing I felt was the cervix, not the urethral opening. Slowly but surely I began to dilate it before she prolapsed. About an hour and a half later I was able to get 3 fingers in. I felt an absolutely huge head. No way it would come out of her. Even so, I did try and prayed that maybe I could get it out. The kid was curled in a ball with its head turned to the side. I was freaking out. I called the vet while a few people came out to help me. He said the roads are too dangerous coming this way and he will head over as soon as it started to clear up. She kept pushing and pushing and screaming until she started to go in and out of consciousness. I knew what I had to do. The kid had a pulse and dottie was going downhill. I decided I would try and save the kid. Hardest decision of my life. I had my dad come out to help me. He put a bullet in her and I tried to keep my emotions at bay until it was done. Very quickly I started to cut her. Shoot. I was on the wrong side and wasted a good 30 seconds. Flipped her over and started again. There's the uterus. Pulled it out and saw the kid struggling. It was still alive. Slowly and carefully cut the uterus and pulled the kid out. It was gasping so I started to hit and swing it. I couldn't bear standing in the barn with dottie lying dead right in front of me, so I went into the garage. Anyways, baby is doing good. Still a little raspy, but dottie blessed me with a HUGE beautiful doe. We just finished burying her(dottie) out in the back. She will will be truly missed. Here is the very last picture I got of her. About 40 minutes before we put her down. I am currently having regrets about what I could have done. I honestly think I possibly could have gotten the kid out if I really tried, but I panicked and didn't want to lose everyone.


----------



## wifeof1

I have no words to express my deepest sympathy for your loss of lovely Dotty.
Hoping the Doeling gets stronger every minute.


----------



## Sfgwife

No! You are NOT ALLOWED that what ifs! You and dottie did an amazing job with EVERYTHING! She gave you all she had to give but left you with a precious gift! THAT is all you get to focus on. If she could have pushed or had your help gettin that gift here anymore she would have in the long frame of time. And in a day or so when you are not so raw your heart will tell you so i think. 

I am so very sorry that your beautiful lil fighter is gone but i am in awe of the gift she left you. A beautiful big doeling!


----------



## SandyNubians

Here is her precious baby girl. I am thinking about naming her either mara, or ekundayo. It hurts me to look at her sometimes. She looks too much like her


----------



## Sfgwife

SandyNubians said:


> Here is her precious baby girl. I am thinking about naming her either mara, or ekundayo. It hurts me to look at her sometimes. She looks too much like her


She is a beauty!


----------



## toth boer goats

Oh man, that is a sad situation.
A C section would of possibly worked, but if you don't know how to then, it was best to do what you had to do. 
The vet may of been too late to get there as well.
I am so sorry for your loss. 

Did you dip the kids umbilical cord in strong iodine?
glad the kid is nursing.

Do you have Bo-se? give a 1/4 cc SQ or some selenium gel.
The kid looks like she needs some.


----------



## Deborah Haney

I'm so sorry for your loss


----------



## Mmhyronimus

I am so sorry for your loss. You did what needed to be done. It is always a horrible decision to make. ((Hugs))


----------



## top_goat

Oh -- I am so very sorry for your loss! You did a fantastic job -- I cannot imagine any of us could have done even as well... certainly not better! You and Dottie both fought so hard. She was obviously an exceptional girl. I'm praying for your comfort and for the little baby girl to thrive and bring you good and joyful memories of her mama.


----------



## jschies

Don't forget about the problems she had before...you would have always had to worry about her getting bred again. I am very impressed with everything that you did over the past few weeks!!


----------



## Dwarf Dad

I am sorry you lost Dottie. Congratulations on saving the doeling! You did very good all through this, and Dottie gave you a healthy little doeling in return. Cherish her.


----------



## Jubillee

So very sorry for what you went through. She lived a loved life, her baby girl is beautiful.


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## cbrossard

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine having to make that decision.


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## HoosierShadow

I am so sorry again for your loss, but was so happy to read that the baby made it! I was wondering, and kept wanting to ask in my last post if it was possible to try to save the kid, but didn't want to impose on you about it in case you had lost them all.

You did what was best in a very bad situation. Dottie is not suffering, and the baby has a chance at life! praying she will continue to thrive and your heart and mind will heal. It's a tough decision.
You were very brave to go in and save the baby! I know how hard that is to do! 
Get some rest, and do not let those what if's get you down! take care of the baby and yourself. You deserve it (the rest that is).


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## Goats Rock

I am crying for you in the loss of your Dotty. You both tried so hard. I hope the baby can help console you. She is a fighter, too.

I admire your dedication and courage.
Again, so very sorry for losing Dotty
You certainly did your best all the way around.


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## Trollmor

Very well done! And say Thank You from me to your dad, he did what was best for dear Dotty. :inlove: (clap) Very well done of you to actually get the kid out! (clap)(clap)

I was going to suggest Dottelina for a name, but you choose! Please go on sharing photos of the Wonder of Life! I suspect she will need your help with those feet, being pressed during labour. I take it you have already seen her trying to use them. Do they work for her?

Dear Dotty.

And, again, VERY WELL DONE, ALL OF YOU!!!


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## Ranger1

I am so sorry that things went south like they did. No blaming yourself for anything though-only look forward to the future you have with this beautiful doeling. You worked so hard to save her for the last several weeks, and again in labor and delivery, with horrible roads and no vet access. You've risen above and beyond what a lot of us would have done, and managed to save this beautiful Dotty lookalike. 
Don't look back and beat yourself up with "what ifs." (hug) And good job for doing all you have done for this doe and her baby!


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## Jessica84

I can not put into words how very sorry I am you lost Dottie  I don’t see how you could have done a better job. You said maybe you should have tried harder to get the kid out. I don’t think the outcome would have been different except maybe you wouldn’t have ended up with that baby. You thought fast on your feet and made a hard, and I believe the correct decision that probably was the only way that baby survived. A lot of people wouldn’t have been able to do what you did.
Only because so many people are reading this I’m going to give some advise on doing a c section like this. Again you did wonderful! I have had to do the same thing as you twice now. I did the same as you and went in from the side. It’s what the vet did when I took a doe in for a c section so that’s what I did. It took so long to get to the kids. I was telling my kinda goat mentor at the time how things went down. He said if I ever had to do it again flip the doe on her back and make the cut right in front of the udder. So on the second time I did what he said and the kids were right there. Again you have a living kid so you did perfect, just sharing a way to save a little time  
Sending hugs to you. You gave Dottie such a wonderful live full of love


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## mariella

Take a breath and relax. Think back on what happened with a perspective of how Dottie was doing. I know it's hard but I had to do this to with my favorite doe. I was in a different set of circumstances but it was still the hardest thing I have ever done. I blamed myself for what happened and thought of way I could have saved my doe. But looking back and thinking what my doe was going through how much she was suffering. Could I have really made her live through the next week, two weeks suffering? In your case would she have made it after the kid was born? would the kid have made it? Would the kid have fit with no injuries?
When I had to do this my doe had a buckling and a doeling and I swear her doeling reminded me of her mother so much. She had her mother's voice and mannerisms. I cried so much and you know what it's okay to cry but it's not okay to blame yourself for what happened.


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## Trollmor

May it be that a vet is going in another way on a living goat, than we can do at home on a dead goat?

Now, I am so glad over the kid, can you share more pictures? :inlove: Living kid and the grave over a goat who was loved by many who did not even meet her! :inlove:


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## GoofyGoat

im at a loss for the right words to try to comfort you and console you. Just know,
You did an amazing job taking care of Dottie while she had such a complicated pregnancy she left you an amazing gift and responsibility to care for her little girl. I'm sure she's the brightest star in the heavens looking down on you two and going to be an very attentive guardian angel to you both.
God bless


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## nicolemackenzie

From what you said it sounds like you made the right choice in a tough situation. There was not much time to act. It's hard not to say what if this or what if that. But what you did saved one life where two could have been lost.


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## SandyNubians

toth boer goats said:


> Oh man, that is a sad situation.
> A C section would of possibly worked, but if you don't know how to then, it was best to do what you had to do.
> The vet may of been too late to get there as well.
> I am so sorry for your loss.
> 
> Did you dip the kids umbilical cord in strong iodine?
> glad the kid is nursing.
> 
> Do you have Bo-se? give a 1/4 cc SQ or some selenium gel.
> The kid looks like she needs some.


I did dip her cord. And yes, I gave get 1/4 cc of bo-se.

Thank you all so much. Reading through all of your kind words brings tears to my eyes :hug:

Mara is doing great this morning. She is eating great. She took 5oz this morning and wanted more. This girl weighs 7 almost 8lbs. Dottie was the size of a ND. Mara is 3 times the weight of my ND kids when they were born. She is slightly bigger than Marylou's doeling, and only just smaller than her buckling who weighed in at 13lbs yesterday at 5 days old. She already had horns poking through and her teeth were very erupted. She is no longer raspy at all and is acting like a normal baby goat.


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## toth boer goats

I am so happy to hear the great news.
Very good work.


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## Trollmor

Oh, was Mara THAT big!!! mg: In that case, Dotty just had no chance.

Other than the one you gave her. Thanks again to you and your dad! Very well done!

Next wish: PHOTOS! Our eyes are also wet - and will get wetter from photos, still we wish them! :inlove:

(What does "Mara" mean in your language? Here, it is only the bad angel that gives us night mares.)


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## NigerianNewbie

You have been and are incredibly diligent and remarkably brave. :hug:


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## HoosierShadow

Wow, she is HUGE! She is the size of a standard size kid. 

I hope she is continuing to do well.


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## SandyNubians

Sorry I haven't updated we have been without power for a few days.



Trollmor said:


> (What does "Mara" mean in your language? Here, it is only the bad angel that gives us night mares.)


We actually named her after the Mara river in Maasai mara park in Africa. I felt like represents both life and death for many of the animals (mainly wildebeest) who live there. And we live next to a river, and the flooding made it so we couldn't (well we could but we would be risking our lives) get dottie to the vet. So at that time it also held the balance between life and death. The other choice Ekundayo is another African name and meant "sorrow becomes joy" still tossing up which name I really want to use. Anyways she is doing wonderfully. Gaining weight and very energetic. She is a sweet little thing. I was going to leave her horns on but last minute I decided not to. My fencing just isn't meant for goats with horns, and I can't take another sarsparilla getting her head stuck in the fence every 3 minutes. Here is a picture from the 6th. The brown and black/dark brown one is marylous buck kid, at the time a week old. The one in the middle is sarsparillas buck, at the time 9 days old. He is how big mara should have been. And of course mara, the black one, at 3 days old. (sorry you can't see her face)


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## Trollmor

SandyNubians said:


> Sorry I haven't updated we have been without power for a few days.
> 
> We actually named her after the Mara river in Maasai mara park in Africa. I felt like represents both life and death for many of the animals (mainly wildebeest) who live there. And we live next to a river, and the flooding made it so we couldn't (well we could but we would be risking our lives) get dottie to the vet. So at that time it also held the balance between life and death. The other choice Ekundayo is another African name and meant "sorrow becomes joy" still tossing up which name I really want to use. Anyways she is doing wonderfully. Gaining weight and very energetic. She is a sweet little thing. I was going to leave her horns on but last minute I decided not to. My fencing just isn't meant for goats with horns, and I can't take another sarsparilla getting her head stuck in the fence every 3 minutes. Here is a picture from the 6th. The brown and black/dark brown one is marylous buck kid, at the time a week old. The one in the middle is sarsparillas buck, at the time 9 days old. He is how big mara should have been. And of course mara, the black one, at 3 days old. (sorry you can't see her face)
> View attachment 146235


What beautiful, meaningful names you consider. How about giving her both? After all, she is a very special goat!

Getting Dotty to the vet might not have helped her. A cesarean (?) is a big surgery, and she might not have survived the healing of the big wound. For her, I still believe it was best not to suffer any more. I bet you hear her screams in your head day and night. *tears*

Very instructive photo, when you tell us their ages. Nice that you have those!

And oh no, no horns stuck in the fence, please! Have also been there! (The worst was when two full grown horned billy bucks trained, and got their horns stuck. When I arrived, they had got tired of being stuck, and pulled in diverse directions. Have you ever tried one of those hand puzzles with two bent nails, that go apart in only one single way? This kind of puzzle, but full size! Every week. In the end I did not dare to keep them both, and butchered the son. The father was my unrelated breeding buck.)


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## SandyNubians

Trollmor said:


> Getting Dotty to the vet might not have helped her. A cesarean (?) is a big surgery, and she might not have survived the healing of the big wound. For her, I still believe it was best not to suffer any more. I bet you hear her screams in your head day and night.


I did think about that. Would she have been able to drain properly (If its anything like other major surgeries I had seen) Would she have even made it through. Would she have died in the car on the way there, and then we would be in between a rock and a hard spot. Those were all questions in my mind when we were going through. It is painful. I do hear her screams. More often though I swear I hear her normal bleat when I go to feed everyone. It was unique. Worse part about it is I have videos of everything. My barn cam was set on motion detection and recorded 2 hours worth of footage of me inside her, as well as when my dad came in and did the deed and then the entire cesarean process. Maybe i can upload those videos and possibly help someone learn. Before I can do that, I need to stop crying everytime I open it.


Trollmor said:


> And oh no, no horns stuck in the fence, please! Have also been there! (The worst was when two full grown horned billy bucks trained, and got their horns stuck. When I arrived, they had got tired of being stuck, and pulled in diverse directions. Have you ever tried one of those hand puzzles with two bent nails, that go apart in only one single way? This kind of puzzle, but full size! Every week. In the end I did not dare to keep them both, and butchered the son. The father was my unrelated breeding buck.)


I got a bunch of those puzzles awhile ago and if it's anything like that that must have been really irritating! My worse problem with them stuck in the fence is getting pinched in between. I got some bad cuts and bruises from that. Not only that but there has been goats (including one of mine) who got their heads stuck in and the coyotes get them. It's awful! I lost my herd queen last year because of that. It just wasn't worth risking to leave her horns on. I just went in to see her and got this cute photo of her face. I love her one ear. Little imperfection. Looks like a spot of frost, but neither of her ears or nose are frosted


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## NigerianNewbie

Awww, she is beautiful. :rose::rose:


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## GoofyGoat

Mara's so sweet! She has her moms eyes. What a treasure ...you're blessed to have her.
Don't beat yourself up please you made the right call. After awhile as the pain subsides and the good memories start coming back it will hurt less. Until then, focus on that baby who needs you.
You did the right thing disbudding her for your farm. You're keeping her safe.
I found my Hagrid on a lonely road, no farmhouse to be found nearby with his head/horns caught in a fence. It was in the middle of a thunderstorm he was scared, starving and very hypothermic, he would have died a horrible death alone and scared had we not noticed him and stopped. He's a special part of our herd now. 
Hang in there ***HUGS***


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## Dwarf Dad

Mara is a beautiful doeling! I am hoping she will be a blessing to you, as she grows and kids.


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## wifeof1

She is a darling.


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## HoosierShadow

Awww she is so adorable! My goodness... what a 'big' miracle baby she is! I'm sorry your still having a hard time about Dottie. I know that feeling, and it's not a fun one to feel  I still can see the doe we lost to toxemia and hear her when she was starting to suffer after her rumen apparently shut down and she was bloating. It was the most horrible thing I've ever experienced in my life with animals. I said I was done with goats after that. Somehow stayed in it. Then a year later (last year) her little sister had her first babies, and we ended up with a sweet little bottle baby who lived in the house for 2 weeks and won over my heart and helped me heal. She melts my heart even at a year old, she loves me as much as I love her. That bond helps make the bad stuff a little easier to digest. I hope you are able to find peace with your experience.


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## toth boer goats

So cute.


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## Trollmor

SandyNubians said:


> I swear I hear her normal bleat when I go to feed everyone


Wonderful! :inlove: I get tears in my eyes, and my lips go apart in a big smile. DEAR Dotty! :inlove:

Oh, coyotes, arghhhh! My three dimension puzzle was indoors, in the morning when I arrived. But I got sort of tired of trying to manage that puzzle while two strong boys, tired of being caught, pulled and jerked in diverse directions. The younger was really neat, imagine ReNat's Martin with big black dots, but he was brother and nephiew to most of my goats, so he was the one who had to go.)

Wonderful photo! Well worth putting on the wall here! (And in our coming calendar; don't forget to add that photo to the others when we set it up!) I think she looks like a young countess, and as such of course she must have more than one name! Our royalties here usually have 4 each.

And a good education, of COURSE she must soon start her piano lessons!!!


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## Trollmor

Concerning mourning after a loved one: If the pain is now intense, remember: Exactly this is your receipt that what you have lost was a really great treasure.

:inlove:


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## Sfgwife

She is beautiful! And those EARS!


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## bisonviewfarm

She's so Cute!!!!


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