# ABGA bucks %



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I called ABGA but the lady seemed to me more confused then anything so maybe someone here can help me out.
So in the past I’d say I had a 99.9% buck and I bred to a 75% doe the buck would basically act as a 100% so the offspring would be 88%. So I know things have changed with bucks and how they are registered. So is it still going to be the same on that or will the offspring be 87.45% on paper?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wish I knew, but I do not.
I only have FB's.

Hopefully someone will chime in soon.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Hey Jessie - did you get your copy of the ABGA magazine this week? Just got mine and there is an article with math examples for the new percentages! I read it really quickly last night, I think the answer is 87.45% but if you have the magazine double check!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I got it! I just am not sure what happened to it so I will hunt that down. But my luck that’s probably how they do it now :/ If my 99.9% doe has a buck I was going to keep it as a replacement since I lost my buck and I figured it wouldn’t be a big deal since I have a good handful of purebreds, percentage and commercial does :/


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Saltey you are correct! They will now do the exact percentage of the off spring.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I think overall, it's going to be very confusing when it comes to %'s! I liked the basic 50, 75, 88, etc.


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

OMGOSH!!! This is upsetting. I think it's due to the fact that the allow % bucks that are less than 94%. I personally think the ABGA wants more money, and want to support BIG breeders. But, that's just me. I think that this is going to bring a WHOLE lot of issues later down the road. For example, we have an amazing 99% buck that has produced GIANT kids that would be perfect for the show ring, but the issue is the does he has bred are either 50% or not registered. I don't know if it's even worth registering the offspring now... Sorry for the extreme digression.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it’s more money too! I think it was you hoosiershadow who said that they even changed it so that before a kid can be a jr member they have to have their parent be a member. And they have always looked after the big breeders  what is sad is I’m sure if you put all the small breeders together we bring in more money then them. I haven’t sat down and figured it out but I’m sure it will take a few more generations of breeding if I started with a commercial doe and a 99.9% buck to get to a 99.9% so I don’t think I’m going to keep a little purebred buck . 
GF3 Boer Goats, I would be SUPER upset if I bought a 99.9% buck expecting it to be like it was and they changed the rules! I’m thinking back to all the purebred bucks I have sold just picturing totally ticked off people. They really should have thought about this in the beginning and stuck with it. I don’t think it’s unfair to have it this way I just think it’s unfair to change it all of a sudden.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What kind of warning did they give y'all? Was any input sought?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

mariarose said:


> What kind of warning did they give y'all? Was any input sought?


Oh yes, it's been developing for 6 or more months and many regional rep.s reached out for feedback.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

All I ever heard about was that bucks would be able to be registered at any percentage now not 94% and higher. I didn’t hear anything about changing to total true percentage. I’m not saying it should t be that way. I always wondered why it wasn’t that way to start with. I just think it’s unfair to those who invested in stock expecting it to be one way and then they change it. I mean for me it’s not a big deal, I don’t have any purebred bucks I have always had fullbloods but if I were to have bought a purebred buck last year expecting it to be the way it has been for years and they changed it after I invested this money into it I would be livid.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry, for all of you, regarding this situation.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm not from the show world so excuse my ignorance, but does it matter if you purchased a 98% "American Purebred" buck last year, expecting to register 50% doelings out of unregistered does but now instead you will be registering 49% doelings? What's the difference? They are still registerable...


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

I'm sure there is going to be a bad rap for less than 50% does, it has been seen when people use purebred bucks, which is frustrating. Now I'm beginning to think it's not worth having pure bred animals, especially bucks.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

What is the difference between Purebred and Fullblood in the ABGA world?


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

Purebred is like the ADGA American, it originates from a cross further down in its pedigree, vs a Fullblood. Fullbloods can trace their ancestry from both sire and dam back to one of the original imports.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I can’t say what it means in the show world but only what it would mean to me. Most of the stock I have, especially my purebred and percentage was built from breeding up. That is my ultimate goal is to have high percentage threw selective breeding for traits that I find important.
So let’s say I got a 98%. Starting out with a commercial doe and the breeding the off spring back to a 98%, it will take 6 generations to get to 98% offspring. I just did this real fast with the new way and after 11 generations it comes to 97.96%. Now I’m sure that not everyone is the same as me, and maybe not even many, I just think that it’s unfair to change it now and kinda a joke that they didn’t think about everything before they even started. At the very least they should have given WAY more notice then 6 months to make sure that everyone knows about it. If I did keep a purebred last year to use this year and just now coming to learn about it I would be livid. Their magazine came out a month ago tops, granted I didn’t read it till a few weeks ago but let’s say I did. My does are already bred. I’m expecting them to have something that they would not be having. I mean it would be bad enough if I bought a buck and learned about the new rules and decided that’s not what I really want to breed my girls to now, but there would be no going back now. What about the smaller people just starting out that don’t even get the magazine? They think they have one thing born or being born and when the papers come it’s going to be totally different. If the kids were sold with just a application the buyers are probably not going to be happy just for the pure fact they will probably feel they have been lied to


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

@Jessica84 I come from the same situation, but I show for the fact that I can meet new people. When we started we had no idea what was what, now it's only gonna be harder for people just starting. Small breeders can't always afford to pay $1000+ for a high quality animal, so we turn to upgrade breeding and renting bucks. I would love to get a 100% dappled buck, but they cost to much for me to buy. We only have 2 100% does and they are related in some way, so it would be hard to retain a new buck. Once again sorry for the digression


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So what do the 3 of you think is behind this decision? (Like HOW would this lead to more money for ABGA) and what was the reason given (Like they aren't going to say, "Because we are greedy busters", it'll be something about how it is better for the breed, somehow)


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## GF3 Boer Goats (Sep 25, 2017)

mariarose said:


> So what do the 3 of you think is behind this decision? (Like HOW would this lead to more money for ABGA) and what was the reason given (Like they aren't going to say, "Because we are greedy busters", it'll be something about how it is better for the breed, somehow)


I think their explanation is going to be that " breeders can't afford to purchase bucks that are purebred/fullblood, so we encourage that everyone to retain their own bucks! It no longer matters that it's not a 97% or higher!!!"
My issue with this is that you are going to have to register this goat, then you have to DNA test it! Issue number 2 is the fact that breeders in my state already discourage the use of purebred bucks as they are "unfit" and "don't meet the standards". People like my self with no other local registered breeders it makes it tough for me to get bucks to improve my own herd.
Sorry for the 3rd long digression


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No sorry GF3 Boer goats! I like hearing how other people do things and their thought behind things anyways so you are welcome to tell me your life story anytime lol so saltey did ask a good question though, what does this mean for showing? Are there classes that you will be able to still show animals under 50% now? I very much understand it not being worth paying for a full blood, the only reason it has been worth it to me is because I do have so many goats, fullbloods all the way down to commercial. 
Mariarose, how it used to be was no buck could be registered unless 97% (maybe 94 but I thought it was 97) or higher. To make things easier with this let’s say I had a 97 and bred to a commercial, it would just round up to 50%, so they acted as a 100% up till their percentage. They also had it that any buck under a purebred couldn’t be registered and the off spring couldn’t be. So if a 75% buck bred a 100% doe it couldn’t be done. The kids would be 50%. They changed that. So any buck can be registered no matter the percentage and even a commercial buck could breed a 100% doe to make a 50% kid. So the limit on being registered was 50% now it looks like it could even be 25%. I think to make all this “fair” and less confusing they now have it so that each animal would have their exact percentage on their papers. So the now can get money for 50-88% bucks as well as their offspring........pretty much anything can be registered now lol


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> I'm not from the show world so excuse my ignorance, but does it matter if you purchased a 98% "American Purebred" buck last year, expecting to register 50% doelings out of unregistered does but now instead you will be registering 49% doelings? What's the difference? They are still registerable...


50% does can be shown. 49% can not. That 1% will make a huge difference when trying to sell to shoe homes.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Thank you Amandanicole.

I believe part of the reasoning ABGA provided was that this will provide better tracking of pedigrees. Rather than leaving half a pedigree blank because a buck was less than 97%, the pedigrees will be more complete now.


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## JearDOE Ranch (Aug 23, 2018)

I was thinking from a show aspect it was good news. That it would open the door to help more people get into showing. Maybe I'm missing something though. I haven't read all the new rules. 
I just cleaned out part of my basement this past week. I'm sure my boar goat magazine is around here... somewhere.


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## Amandanicole (Jun 20, 2014)

JearDOE Ranch said:


> I was thinking from a show aspect it was good news. That it would open the door to help more people get into showing. Maybe I'm missing something though. I haven't read all the new rules.
> I just cleaned out part of my basement this past week. I'm sure my boar goat magazine is around here... somewhere.


So far the % required to show has not changed. Only 50% and higher does and PB/FB bucks. 
On a post on FB I did read where one of the board members mentioned that they are taking the % required to show into consideration. They are going to see just how many of the % bucks they get registered first. If there aren't a large number then it would not be worth the cost for a class for them at shows.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

% bucks can't be shown, only Purebred 97% to 99.9%, that hasn't changed. I would be interested to see if that changes in the future. I also am under the impression it was to track pedigrees, but I also think $$$ is involved. I haven't looked into the rules for registering them, I know DNA would be required, I'm not sure if that's at time of registration or before their kids can be registered - Purebred/Fullblood bucks can be registered without DNA testing, but you can't register their offspring until they are DNA tested (hope that made sense).

I like the idea but like Purebred/Fullblood, people will now offer everything as registerable, and not be selective and weed out the ones who are not worthy of reproducing. 
However, there are a LOT of nice % bucks out there, so it will be fun to see how this turns out, so let's hope for the best.

Also, not sure if it was mentioned, but I believe a ballot went out at the beginning of the year and one question was would members like them to add % bucks. I believe the outcome vote was 'No.' Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I never get to vote because we don't normally renew our membership until spring when we have something to register.

Jessica - Yes, they changed rules years ago where JR. members must have an adult member to represent them. I was mad, because at the time I had 2 Jr. members and my youngest was ready to get her own, so that's $90 in fees right there, add in another $30 for me! We do the goat stuff on a tight budget, and at the time only registered 3-5 goats! 
We ended up dropping Jr. memberships, and doing 1 account with all of our names on it.
They didn't offer anything for Jr.'s around here anyway...

Now... area show's are trying to add in Jr. shows and I think it's great! There will be one next summer in southern KY, and I need to find out but the one in the spring near us may also be adding a Jr. show too! I think they are trying to get one at the state fair, but there are rules that make it complicated (only KY youth can show in Jr. shows, registry shows or not, which means #'s would be down and only limited to KY youth  ).
However, with the other Jr. shows, I am now planning on getting my youngest daughter a Jr. membership and transferring her goats into her account. Next year is my son's last year showing youth, so I'm going to let him decide if he wants me to reinstate his Jr. membership so he can also show in Jr. shows.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hoosiershadow kinda off topic but how did you get them so that everyone’s name was on the papers? I want to do this with my kids just so if they decide to show one day I don’t have to transfer all the papers into their name, or if I croak lol but I asked and the lady told me when I fill out the app to just put everyone’s name on it but when I did that it came back with just my name since the membership is just in my name. Hopefully if they are making money doing papers this way they will do more training for the gals in the office!


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