# Is Sophie nearly due?



## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Hello forum - hysterical new mom back again!

I have attached pics of my little Sophie. She was either covered in August or in September by my wretched neighbour's goat.

She is very heavy now, looks like she is carrying two basket balls on either side of her. Recently (maybe last 2 weeks?) her udders suddenly grew.

My nerves are shot....I don't know what to expect, or when to expect it.

We have built a little house on ground level for the goats now (my Sophie and my other girl, Bella, who may or may not be pregnant - she is not showing like Sophie). It is big enough for me to walk through the door and stand upright inside. I've attached a pic of the house - only just finished about 5 minutes ago, will put straw down. It is very warm in there, and it's a hot summer now. It will be good for cool nights, but not sure about Sophie and the new baby. Will Sophie move the baby where it is best?

Please can you look at the pics of Sophie and give me an idea of how close we may be? 

Signs to look out for if she goes into labour, what to do, more specifically what NOT to do? If she has her baby outside of the pen (they roam free during the day), do I pick the baby up and move them into the pen? 

Will my other girl, Bella, be a problem with the new baby? Can they stay together in the pen at night?

Ja.....hair on fire here again.....hellup!


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Oh dear - sorry - pics posted all cock-eyed. Sorry about that.... 

The house is made from plastic sheeting and mesh (like for plant tunnels). I just complained about the heat inside, so this afternoon we are putting a bamboo roof on, which should keep it cooler during the day....


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

First thing is to take a deep breath. Judging by her udder she still has some time. I would say probably got bred in September and will kid in February. She will have the kids where she feels safest, that may or may not be in the shelter. If she has them in the open you can move them to the pen. It would be best for her to be alone with the kids for a few days but many people don't seperate. I will say that her udder has alot of teats and that may make it difficult for the kids to nurse, so watch that.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

If it's summer and hot, you definitely need a different roof on the shelter so it isn't so hot during the day with the sun right on them 
I agree, looks like she's due in Feb, but she could surprise you and go sooner. But.. just looking at the picture I'd say you still have some time.
If the teats are way too close that could be an issue, but otherwise, having multiple teats aren't an issue, We raise meat goats, and have had some with crazy teats, no issues.  If there are non functioning teats, kids will figure those out real quick and go to the ones that give the milk


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thank you for the responses. My poor girl - another month? She's waddling like a ducklet at the moment. I can easily separate the two adults when Sophie kids - Bella can sleep on the patio - they both like it there, it is like a second home. Ah well.....yes Ally - breathe!

But now hang on...see I picked something up in this post......



Summersun said:


> She will have the _*kids*_ where she feels safest........


Kids......KIDS??? Do you think she may have more than ONE???

Oh my giddy aunt....say it isn't so :shocked:


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

yeah, she will prolly have more than one as big is she is. Mine usually have twins but lots of people get 3 or 4.


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Oh dear......I'm going to land up with a HERD if Bella is preggers too! 

Hair on fire again....... :-?


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Here is Sophie's tummy, but I swear, it looks bigger in real life.....can she really go another month like this? :tears:


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

It is actually better for her to have kids rather than a single kid. Singles tend to be big, whereas multiples tend to be smaller.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Just curious, but do you have a picture of all of her (face and body)? Are you sure she is pygmy, and what is the buck that bred her? There may be difficulties if he is a much larger breed.


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Cactus_Acres said:


> It is actually better for her to have kids rather than a single kid. Singles tend to be big, whereas multiples tend to be smaller.


Yes yes! That makes sense to me. Rather 2 little ones than one HUGE baby, because Sophie isn't even full grown herself yet!

Thank you


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Cactus_Acres said:


> Just curious, but do you have a picture of all of her (face and body)? Are you sure she is pygmy, and what is the buck that bred her? There may be difficulties if he is a much larger breed.


Here is a pic with Sophie and her mum last year, she was younger, and the other was taken yesterday.

She was bred by a pygmy buck (at least I think so), looks just like them, but nastier and bigger. He chased my girls and I often, with gnashing teeth and terrifying cries, blowing raspberries at us. I've attached a pic of him too.


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Eish sorry.....I don't know why my pics come through upside down!


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

JamAlly, I apologize for guffawing at your predicament, my laugh for the day at your expense, but it's just the way you describe things, that makes me laugh! Poor lady, you must have hardly any hair left, just smoldering crisps by now. I think it's all going to be okay. Small buck, small doe, same-ish breed, should not cause complications. Your yard looks like it has all sorts of clean, shady places for her to kid. Grandma goat might actually be helpful with getting the kids off to a good start, and not need to be separated at all. Kids are cute, and mama goat will do the raising; I bet all you'll really need to do, most of the time, is enjoy their cuteness, handle them so they're friendly, and you'll never want to rehome them.  
If I recall, these goats were rescues/were foist upon you/you saw them in bad condition and couldn't sleep thinking about their plight? They sure look fine, now!


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Pygmies tend towards multiples, so be prepared for that. 

Wouldn't hurt to have some bottle nipples on hand either in case she rejects a baby or babies. FF moms can do that from time to time. They make nipples here in the US that fit on to plastic soda bottles. That makes feeding pretty easy. Better than those huge calf bottles that require special scrub brushes to clean.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Btw, totally envying your green grass right now. We had an early hard freeze in September here, and are in the throws of winter right now. Today was unseasonably warm, with it getting into the 40s F today, but tonight it drops down to the single digits with snow.c


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Adorable goats..and you will be amazed at how big those tummies can get!!! And I had to laugh at your description of the buck... Ha ha .. He was totally 'flirting' with you!!! All those strange noises and raspberries were his way of saying "Hey Baby..."
Good luck on kidding! I hope it all goes smoothly!


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I agree with what others have said. Breathe, and enjoy  Feel in front of her udder on the right side, and the right side of her belly for baby movement, it is just the neatest feeling ♥ Sometimes you can even see them kick so hard late in pregnancy that they get the bottom of the belly fluttering! Our kiko/cross herd queen this afternoon after feeding time...I was watching her while some other does were finishing, and her baby had her lower belly fluttering from their kicks ♥
Most of the time everything goes smoothly, my advice would be to go on youtube and watch some goat births, don't look for ones that say tough deliveries, etc. look for some positive videos so you have an idea what to expect.

I'm in KY, so it's pretty cold this time of year. But usually all I take out with me for birthing is a thing of dental floss in my pocket, some towels, and warm, clean water in a gallon or bucket, so in the event I have to go in at the last minute, I can clean my hands. 
In warm weather, I like to use a towel to clean the face, nose and mouth, or sometimes if a kid is a little sluggish to start, I can rub them with a towel to get them motivated  
I carry dental floss with me in case an umbilical cord breaks short and causes a lot of bleeding, I can tie some floss around it to stop the bleeding. Or...if a cord doesn't break, I can tie the floss around it, and use my fingernails below the floss to break the cord. 
Oh ---- we also clean their umbilical cord with iodine to help prevent infection.

Otherwise, unless there is an issue I don't do anything else right away, other than make sure babies nurse.

You might not need to separate the does, they may be just fine  If you had more, I'd say yeah, better separate them. By not separating them, I'd think that the other doe may grow fond of her grandbabies.


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Goat_in_Himmel said:


> JamAlly, I apologize for guffawing at your predicament, my laugh for the day at your expense, but it's just the way you describe things, that makes me laugh!
> Small buck, small doe, same-ish breed, should not cause complications.


LOL - that's okay, my mother was laughing so hard she nearly wet herself. She was absolutely no help with rescuing we three (we managed to escape to the pen and lock ourselves in), even though she was the only one with a cell phone in her hand....far away....safely shrieking in the distance.....

All my animals are handled. If I could get my girls to stop jumping on my laptop and peeing on the couch, they would be inside girls, for sure 

Please explain "same-ish" breed to me? As everyone knows, I am goat-clueless.....what do you see?


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> Feel in front of her udder on the right side, and the right side of her belly for baby movement, it is just the neatest feeling ♥
> Most of the time everything goes smoothly, my advice would be to go on youtube and watch some goat births


Thank you for all your fabulous advice - I definitely will go onto You Tube and look there.

And THANK YOU for telling me where to feel on Sophie's tummy. She gets cranky after about half an hour, with me holding and hugging and prodding her tummy all over, hoping to feel that little movement. She'll be well pleased that I will seem to know what I'm doing now. Maybe she won't horn me and leap away now when I say "okay now, all done"....naughty (and patient) little girl! 

Now for my next question - our property is fairly big, we are on 40 acres. My girls usually stay within about a 5'ish acre radius, sometimes more. Will Sophie kid where she feels safe (that would be here with me), or will she suddenly go into labour where ever she might be and not have the chance to come home? This is probably one of my biggest fears - that she will have her baby away from home and I may not find her...... My girls do answer me when I call them, and they come to me, but will this be the case if Sophie has just had a newborn?

Sorry for all the questions....as you can see, these goats are very special to me and I know very little about them, apart from the fact that I love them, and cuddle them, and feed them and put them to bed at night.

This forum is amazing! I'm am very blessed to have all this advice


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

What they mean by same ish breeds is that he is small and appears to be a pygmy, Nigerian or a cross of the two, making him possibly the same breed as her. Versus her being bred to a huge nubian or alpine or other much larger breed of goat. Lol


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Summersun said:


> What they mean by same ish breeds is that he is small and appears to be a pygmy, Nigerian or a cross of the two, making him possibly the same breed as her. Versus her being bred to a huge nubian or alpine or other much larger breed of goat. Lol


Are my girls Pygmy's?


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

Yep they also appear to be pygmies or Nigerians


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Summersun said:


> Yep they also appear to be pygmies or Nigerians


LOL okay - I will change my signature from "pygmy" to "pygmy'ish". I've looked at pics on the web of the two...but as I have nothing to physically compare my girls to, I don't know either.....


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

The internet can be a blessing or a curse. Having a small amount of information may be worse than having none at all. I have scoured the net, watched videos, read web pages, and now feeling a bit stressed, I think.......

Please tell me if I have this right, and guide me where I am confused.....

- I found out how to clean the umbilical cord - it's called dipping. 7% solution, right?

- Dental floss is only needed if the umbilical cord bleeds, or if it is too long (longer than 2 inches), or if it doesn't disconnect from mom after birth. Otherwise, nothing.

- Labour can last 5 hours. Proper labour should take 1 hour or thereabouts. Anything longer can indicate a problem

- Second baby (if there is one) should be born in the next 3 hours

- Afterbirth should be delivered within about an hour of the birth, or take a day? And come out in one go, or in pieces? And NEVER tug at it....

- There can be one or two afterbirths with multiple kiddings, but that's okay, both normal. Question - pick it up, or let mom eat it? What is the benefit of mom eating it?

- Let the baby be delivered on a feedbag so it's easier to clean baby and the "goo". is this right? And clean new baby's face and mouth with a soft towel, and move quickly to mom to carry on cleaning and bonding....

- In some videos, people helped mom deliver when baby was half way out with gentle pulling when she pushed. Other video's they left mom to do all the work. Which is best?

- Alfalfa/Lucerne pellets - In the last few months I have always given my girls 2 cups a day, morning and night. I read that this can make bigger babies, ergo harder deliveries. Must I change Sophie's diet?

- Grain (oats) to be added about 2 weeks before delivery (like I will know!) and fed afterwards to help with milk. Do I have this right? And feeding grain too early before delivery can also make bigger babies. Not so good....yes?

- If there is a big amber discharge (is there always?) then this is the water breaking, and proper labour is going to start

- The mom will have a watery/bloody type discharge which will start about a week after the birth, but this is normal. Is this right? How long will she "bleed" for?

Sigh......eyes are bleeding.....going outside now to "feel ligaments" on my little "First Freshener" (listen to me!) because they go poofy 12-24 hours before she will go into labour and I need to learn how to find these ligaments.

And feel the right side of the tummy for little babies moving 

Also, after trawling tons of pictures, I realise that I was very premature in thinking Sophie might be ready to kid, you all were right, it seems we still have a long way to go. If I backtrack on my text messages to my wretched neighbours, their buck was giving us the most trouble somewhere in the middle of September, so conservatively, I think we have 5 weeks to go. Is that possible? Aarrghhh....

Thank you again, all of you, for bearing with me and educating me. With your help, I'll be able to say - I GOT THIS!
_
And sorry for the loooong post..... _:-?


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

If she was bred in mid-September, she would be due in mid-February. My girls were covered Sept 22, 23, and 29/30. Their respective due dates would be February 19, 20, and 27/28, I believe. Your girl is Pygmy and/or Nigerian, and I have head folks say they tend to go around day 145-150. So if he was pestering your girl around that same time, Say Sep 22, she could be due as early as February 14 if she tends towards birthing at day 145 (or if she will tend towards birthing near day 150, she could birth near Feb 19). If he was wooing them earlier in September, be looking for babies in the first couple weeks of February.

You are looking for a long tube of discharge to say labor is officially going on. With your girl, she may have discharge for weeks ahead of time. My doe did last year. But when labor started, it was definitely different. A tube of mucus down to her udder. You wont be able to mistake early labor and pushing labor. She will be grunting and pushing (with my girl, pushing usually happened when she was laying down). That is the stage where you look to see if baby is coming in a timely fashion. I grabbed feet with both boys last spring and helped finish getting them out.


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## Goat_in_Himmel (Jun 24, 2013)

I would concur with most of the list of what you wanted to confirm, with this exception: I'd say, second kid born within 30 minutes of the first. It may well happen much more quickly.
You look to have a lovely, clean, green property, so I wouldn't worry about birthing on a feed bag for the kids' sake. If she decides to kid on the patio, then the consideration is how you feel about getting birth goo on the floor, but I'm sure it washes, if it comes to that.
Whether to let mama eat the afterbirth: my opinion: if she's inclined to and it isn't covered in filth from oh, say, a cow patty, I'd let her have as much as she wants, to reclaim some nutrients. My does ate about half and left the rest.
Helping with kidding: up to you and circumstances. After the first kid, subsequent ones might come tumbling out almost by themselves. If present, I personally would be helping mine with the first kid, just because the process seems horribly uncomfortable, and I was the one who arranged the date with the buck in the first place. But that's me being a meddling human. Sophie might not need any help, whatsoever. She might appreciate the moral support of you and mama goat being there--or she might not.
Tube of amber goo--doesn't always appear, or you might miss it if she's out browsing on the back forty acres, or if you had to stop goat watching, in order to get some other things done.
Afterbirth usually comes out within 24 hours if not immediately; some frank show of blood can happen immediately after birth, from (I think) placenta and/or broken capillaries _but not in quantity, and soon stopping_. Old blood and goo will clean out for up to a whole cycle, but quickly tapering off to small amounts.
As for where she kids and whether she calls--my crystal ball is in for repairs, so cannot predict that. 
I think you're good with the alfalfa/lucerne pellets as is; good nutrition, which she needs. Having multiple kids will, I believe, limit the size that any individual kid will become, so that reduces the danger of giving birth to a giant.
I hesitate to speak about the grain...so many opinions out there...I do what seems to work for me, but don't want to steer anyone else wrong.

You and the goats will make a fine birthing team. When it actually happens, I'm sure you'll be too amazed with it to worry about what you think you're supposed to remember to do. And Sophie and maybe her mama will take care of things themselves.


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

Thank you!!!!!!


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

I found Sophie's ligaments..... 

I checked out pictures (on this forum) of when a doe was just about to kid, and I saw how the tummy drops, and it seems the whole shape of the doe seems to change when the time comes. Everything is very noticeable if you know (or think you know) what you're looking for, and Sophie (poor thing) is not going to have her babies any time soon it seems.

And I felt her baby move today.....ah my heart......


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Aww, that's awesome! Kidding is the most exciting (and stressful!) Event of the year..you're lucky to experience it  . 

Try searching under key words like pregnancy, kidding, and new kids; you'll find a treasure trove of valuable information on this forum. Do you know an experienced goat owner that could mentor you through the process, and be there if necessary? Having a vet's number on speed dial would also be helpful, in case you need advice or assistance.

Chances are she'll have an easy wonderful kidding, goats are great at reproducing haha! Just breathe, study and sleep well, because you won't be sleeping much once her due date rolls up


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## JamAlly (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm back again.....and feeling a bit silly for going into panic mode so early with my Sophie. Clearly I am a new mom.....

Here are some new pics of her today....her tummy seems to have dropped down a bit and her ligaments are definitely "softer". 

She has double teats on each side, it looks as if one of the double is "just for show", if you know what I mean. They are very close together though, hoping the baby can latch on nicely when it eventually does arrive.

Here's my girl  Any clues on a due date? Should be soon I think....


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