# How is this even right?? Health Insurance



## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I just don't understand how any of this is right. I pay for my own health insurance, it is around $165 a month and I still have a large deductible. I have had to start physical therapy and choose to pay out of pocket because it is cheaper that way even though I have health insurance. I just got a bill and if I had used my health insurance I would have been stuck with paying $520 for the initial evaluation, thats not just what they would bill the insurance that is what I would be stuck with paying. But because I payed cash out of pocket in the office I ended up paying $130. 
Even when I go for my yearly docter appointment I always pay out of pocket as it is at least 1/4 the cost. 
It just infuriates me that I try to take care of myself and pay my own health insurance and I get screwed for it. Everytime I go to the docter they hit me hard. I had to have other procedures done months ago, I haven't even gotten the bill for that yet, I am sure I will have a heart attack when I get that. 
I am too afraid to get sick anymore!


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## HereComesTheSun (Jan 14, 2013)

How does that even make sense?


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

OH don't get me started.


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## AdamsAcres (Dec 3, 2012)

I am currently paying out of pocket for ultrasounds, biopsies, bloodwork and looking forward to a complete thryoidectomy in the very near future. It will cost me less to make arrangements with the hospital at 50% than it will to handle the bill through the insurance company in which I would pretty much be paying the entire bill after meeting deductible and coinsurance. It makes no sense what so ever!


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Sounds like you should just drop the insurance and pay out of pocket. Your yearly doctor's exam out of pocket is cheaper than your health insurance payment per month! That's ridiculous!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

sweetgoats said:


> oh don't get me started.


ditto!!!!


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## serenityfarmnm (Jan 6, 2013)

I don't want to start my rant here... BUT I did want to make sure you knew that almost all out of pocket medical care, including rx is at least Tax Deductible. Now your premium may be also.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

I would completely drop it as it has been completely useless to me for over 5 years now but I am too afraid if I had to go into the hospital for something serious that we wouldn't be able to pay the bill.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't have health insurance at all...my hubby is covered through his work and pays 25% of the premium...for me to be added, his work does not pay anything for me, and at a rate of almost $600.00 a month, we can't do it and it infuriates me that a health coverage premium is 2x as much as my mortgage....just can't afford to get sick.....and we still owe $3000.00 from an ER visit my hubby had in 2011


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Unfortunately, we will no longer have the option to NOT have health insurance after 2015. The law will require you to have it, unless Congress does the 
right thing and changes it!


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

Maggie said:


> I just don't understand how any of this is right. I pay for my own health insurance, it is around $165 a month and I still have a large deductible. I have had to start physical therapy and choose to pay out of pocket because it is cheaper that way even though I have health insurance. I just got a bill and if I had used my health insurance I would have been stuck with paying $520 for the initial evaluation, thats not just what they would bill the insurance that is what I would be stuck with paying. But because I payed cash out of pocket in the office I ended up paying $130.
> Even when I go for my yearly docter appointment I always pay out of pocket as it is at least 1/4 the cost.
> 
> I completely agree. When is was a chiro assistant it was the same way people had a low payment if they only paid cash compared to their % after their insurance. Then when I went to have my eyes checked 2 yrs ago (no insurance right now-which I guess would be a joke anyway) they asked about my insurance first, then told me what I'd be left with. I asked what if i didn't have insurance it was still lower than what I'd be left with- but now they wouldn't see me that way since they knew I had insurance!


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## Stacie1205 (Mar 26, 2011)

I guess I am fortunate in some respects. I do pay over $500 a month through my work insurance to cover my family of six but because I work for a hospital, they waive anything the insurance doesn't cover because I work for them. Has really come in handy a few times.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

wow that's great stacie. When I was working for the hospital it ran me about the same to cover 4 of us, but if we didn't use their doctors we paid more. Even if we used their docs we still had copays.


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## KarmakeeFarm (Jun 3, 2012)

wow only pay 82 a month and it covers everything included glasses and contacts, exams and chiro--have you shopped around???????


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

wow, yes we have. When I was in central oregon and working for TMobile I had great coverage!! and very cheap for the entire family. Over here where I'm at now you either work for the hospital, the college and even the city, county are small so their staff #'s aren't high. I call this area poverty with a view  Back in the day I also called Flagstaff Az the same thing.


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

It is all obama's fault!!!


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## FunnyRiverFarm (Sep 13, 2008)

I am sorry you are having a difficult time. The only advice I can give is to just keep catastrophic coverage and continue to pay for little things out of pocket. $165/mo generally isn't going to get you much coverage, I am afraid. Our insurance plan is $1,700/mo and it still doesn't cover everything...luckily ours is employer-sponsered so we only have to pay 20% of that premium...$340/mo is still a pretty penny though. 

Really wishing we had a nationalized, single-payer healthcare system here at this point...I am sure the extra taxes to support it would not cost anywhere near $1,700/mo. I feel so sad when I hear of people going bankrupt trying to pay medical bills....especially when those folks have insurance


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

NCacioppo said:


> It is all obama's fault!!!


Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like....I just can't stop liking it!!!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Why is it the fault of one idiot when it's our entire government that's at fault? The Affordable Healthcare Act (which ensures that those who can't afford insurance will have it) was written by multiple people, then wasn't read by multiple people, then was voted for by a bunch more people. It was not written and signed into law by one person. I don't know of any bill that was, at least not legally.

What needs to happen is our government dropping the taboo that is adopting ANY foreign ideas. Canada's healthcare system seems to work very well, and we could stand to adopt foreign ideas on education, drug control, and corrupt bankers and politicians as well. Foreign does not equal bad, just as American does not equal good. Both can be both, and both should at least be considered.

Besides, you want nuts and just plain wrong? How about Arizona trying to pass a law that forces high school students to swear an oath to graduate. Atheists and people who don't believe in absolute nationalism will be forced to swear to things they don't believe in. Equality my butt. It's right in line with states that still bar atheists from taking office.


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## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

caprine crazy said:


> Sounds like you should just drop the insurance and pay out of pocket. Your yearly doctor's exam out of pocket is cheaper than your health insurance payment per month! That's ridiculous!


I don't think you will be allowed to drop insurance. Doesnt the planned national health insurance require everyone to have insurance or they punish you.


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## Bluere11e (Jan 22, 2013)

Goats Rock said:


> Unfortunately, we will no longer have the option to NOT have health insurance after 2015. The law will require you to have it, unless Congress does the
> right thing and changes it!


That's what I thought. It's not fair. I'm rarely sick. I pay out of pocket for my annual and that's it. Oh. Dentist two times a year. I am almost 50.


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

My hubby's and mine is around $10000.00 a year,and it's about to get worse


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

If you currently have insurance. you will NOT be affected. If you're below the poverty level, you will be covered by Medicaid. If you don't have insurance, but aren't below the poverty level, you will pay about 1% of your income, with a cap of $95 for a single adult or $165 for a family of 3. This will be paid along with your federal taxes, so it's more of a tax rather than a fine. This system has been used in Massachusetts since 2007, and roughly 1% of taxpayers paid anything. Not that scary to me, considering I can't afford insurance in the first place. Something needs to be done to keep insurance companies from the utter crap they've been allowed to pull for years. Might knock big pharma around a bit too with the right bill.

http://m.cnbc.com//id/48859987/Study_HealthCare_Act_Will_Force_Insurance_on_73_Million


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

Not affected my butt... those like I, who work very hard yo pay for decent insurance out if pocket have already been affected, and it only get worse. Since this has slowly started taking affect my insurance has gone from 435/month to 548/month to 663/month. See those if use whom work are paying for those who would rather sit around and smoke crack and ignore their 6-10 kids' needs. 

I could go on fir ever... all I can say is whatever you do, do your research. Don't believe the liberal media! 

Oh, and there us a HUGE difference between equal opportunity and equal outcomes, you should only get what you are willing to earn for yourself and I shouldn't have to pay for those who don't!


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## caprine crazy (Jun 12, 2012)

Personally, I do not agree with ObamaCare. It means that we (the taxpayers) will in turn be paying for others' healthcare. I don't know about you guys, but my family has its own worries about making ends meet. It's just another tax to be added on. It's a nice gesture, it just needs more planning and thought.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

How is your insurance raising their rates the fault of the AFA? I don't see any reasoning for it, aside from them sucking what they can from people. And if it's through your employer, rates will go down once it's enacted, or at least that's what most sources say. Besides, it's not ObamaCare so much as RomneyCare, since it was his band of health advisors who designed it. 

You have to be nuts to think minimum wage is enough to live off, and guess who the majority of people you support with taxes are? Drug abusers and deadbeat parents need to be booted off the welfare system yes, but there aren't nearly as many as you think. A very large percentage are single parents working one or two jobs, elderly people who don't get enough from SS to get by, people who 
who hit the crap luck jackpot. People who are anything but lazy degenerates but still can't make ends meet. Thanks to craptastic ideas from the government, minimum wage stopped going up around 2007, while the price of everything else has climbed for 5 years straight (thanks Bush!). It's 7.25 in my state, meaning I don't even clear 12k a year. Am I lazy because I qualify for welfare? People would do well to remember drugs and irresponsible lifestyles are NOT the only reason people need help.

Lastly, don't believe the conservative media, either. Fox is a brilliant example of why. And don't even kid yourself thinking there's any truly balanced news out there. It doesn't exist, and never has.


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

Your making minimum wage is not my fault. You're the one who didn't make more of yourself.
Minimum wage is intended to be a starting point for most Americans. If you work hard and choose to move up you can. If you choose to do the minimum and stay at 7/hr that's not my problem. 

Fox isn't "conservative" they're just republican. Which is just as bad in many cases.
I do not believe any of them I actually read these bills and research minutes for myself. I use logic and common sense to form a conclusion.

My coverage is for my family through me. We're self employed. It goes up because of all the new requirements forced on to the insurance companies by Obamacare.

Not to mention, maybe those of you who are sheltered don't know... people from canada come here when they want good health care.

Redistribution of wealth is not the answer. Think of it like this...
America is a ladder. The beautiful thing about our freedom is we can choose to move up that ladder as high as we want. Just because some choose to stay at the bottom doesn't give cause to punish those who chose to climb!

Liberals are buying votes, giving out "entitlements". In many cases you can make more riding the system than you can working. Who wouldn't vote for those who are lining their pockets free of effort? 

I'm done here... liberals have no logic! I refuse to waste my non-working hours on them too!


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

You want to think I'm a lazy liberal, fine. YOU didn't struggle for a year to find a job in a city that only hires college kids and graduates. YOU aren't struggling.to afford 16k a semester to "move up". (I'm not doing the second one, my friend is) Welfare is NOT "redistribution of wealth", it's a helping hand that's supposed to end when you're on your feet again. Have liberals screwed it up? Try both parties. It doesn't mean we should just tell them to deal with it, especially when there is no way. I'm glad you're so secure, but until you live off of what too many Americans are forced you, don't pretend the world is so fair as to give everyone a chance.

FWIW, Australia raises minimum wage every year. People living off of it are actually capable of doing so. Imagine that. Definitely a reduction in the need for welfare there!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Take a deep breath.

I've been both welfare poor (but never actually on welfare, my parents helped me out when I was desperate) and am now at a point where we do just fine. Some states you CAN live off minimum wage, most places you cannot. Some places you CAN find a job and some places (in fact that's growing) you can not.

I know folks right now with masters degrees that work minimum wage jobs here in Hawaii because the economy is crap and the cost of living is high.

I also know folks on welfare that CAN get jobs and just choose not to.

I make it a point to never assume you know some one. Until you live in their shoes never assume.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Due to the "pay freeze" my husband has had ONE raise in 3 years (he works for feds). It was $397 FOR THE WHOLE YEAR. Yeah, that helped. Doesn't even pay for gas for one month.


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## Ebony Queen (Oct 8, 2011)

All that can be said has already been said. If you get even the tiniest symptoms if a cough or cold, knock it out with some echinacea. 4600ml of it ( taken all at one) will completely obliterate it. That's all I can contribute


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## Kathy81 (Oct 16, 2012)

My health insurance makes me sick my husband is covered through his work we pay $720 a month for my daughter and I to have healthy coverage out individual dec is $3,500 with a max. Of 10,000 out of pocket . I always ask why do we have health insurance


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## nursehelg (Jul 5, 2012)

*take a deep breath everyone*

1)As a healthcare worker, we see the abuse of the system every single day. There will always be that person that sits back and expects everyone to just give them handouts. I have had patients tell me that everyone owes them..... What we must focus on is preventative care. This is where some of the health care reform is focused on. People with chronic conditions will be assigned a group of healthcare providers to oversee their care and hopefully see to it that people are more compliant with their plan of care also. You have to take care of yourselves. It is what it is and we all are going to have to deal with it one way or the other. My way of dealing with all of this crap is being more self relient. Making my own medicines is where I'm starting at so I do not go to the doctor as much. If the FDA gets their way though it will be illegal to buy herbs and supplements unless they say it is ok to buy it. Remeber they control what we legally can consume. They want it all to be by prescription. Sooooo what MD is going to prescribe you natural remedies. I can tell you NONE!!! Remember I work around these guys. They don't even get good nutrition classes when in medical school. 
2)I really don't think people have any idea what the new healthcare system will entail but they are going to find out. I had to read the thing for school and for the most part, I am somewhat fearful of what is going to happen to certain populations of people. There is no such thing as something for nothing. Someone is going to have to pay. 
3)Reform in this country must come from many areas. I feel sometimes that this world is too far gone. People are not taking care of our eldery anymore, people are throwing away babies, the violence is out of control, we are destroying the earth, we are forgetting how to live....and people are blaming each other. 
4)We are going to have to help each other, help our families, help our neighbors. It has to start somewhere. Then it will spread. I don't like to see conflict within our little community here. :grouphug:


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I think we need to seriously crack down on the welfare abuse as a start. Ease the burden where we can. Personally I'm all for mandatory drug testing for ALL forms of welfare, Medicaid included. Boot their butts out to rehab, give them a halfway decent chance at reform, while leaving the taxpayer's money free for those who genuinely need a temporary hand up.

I can't pretend to know what's in all 1500 pages. What I do know is neither does anyone else, especially the idiots who voted on it. What I do know is it sounds like a good start in the right direction.

Lastly, I have no issue with anyone on here, and sorry if I came off as condescending. However, I don't appreciate being told it's my choice to take a minimum wage job, especially when OSU is right smack in the middle of town, and businesses get tax incentives for hiring students and grads. It's been getting worse every year, to the point where I can't get a second job, despite age, experience, and a job I'm still currently working at. The only reason I have a job is because I sweet talked a manager into it since he's a friend of mine. I really don't want to waste money on college, especially as it seems to help less and less in finding a decent job. I don't make enough in a year to cover one semester, and don't fancy the thought of owing tens of thousands with no 
guarantee that I can afford to pay it off later.


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## nursehelg (Jul 5, 2012)

We live with a college 3 miles from my house. I know what you mean. My husband couldn't get a job for over a year.


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## Maggie (Nov 5, 2010)

Wow didn't know this would turn into such a debate lol! I can say we live comfortably, but are not at all wealthy and go without a lot of things. We have been very lucky the last couple winters to find work (we do landscaping) but a couple winters ago I was ebaying off a lot of my things to pay bills. 
The insurance I pay is only for myself. I had a better plan years ago with $0 deductible, but every single year my premium has gone up $40-50 a month and I have bumped down a plan every year.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I had to quit doing what I loved (veterinary nurse) because the insurance was so ungodly expensive and didn't cover much. I was hired on at a college and we had great insurance - now I work for an oil company and we have the best insurance yet! I do pay about 300+ a month - but that is for my husband and I. We have the best insurance they offer. It is a $300.00 deductable that has to be met before insurance kicks in (each has a $300.00) but then we are covered 100% at the Dr.'s and only have up a $2000.00 max out of pocket per person for hospital and procedures. Then after that everything is insurance covered. I paid less then $1000.00 for my surgery in october (start to finish with dr. appt's, biopsies, blood work, sonograms, all kinds of stuff). The hospital let me make payments on my portion and so did my dr. office. My surgery was over $50,000 when I received the medical bills.

My husband has Diabetes (had NO idea he had it till i sent him for a physical at the local "payment based on income" prior to insurance). When he came home with a brown paper bag of medications, syringes, and what not - thats when I quit the clinics and went to work based on insurance coverage.


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

The mixed bag... You're going yo school, you're climbing. I agree you can use a temporary hand. So many, even some of my own family, stay on "assistance" their whole life just because. That's not right. I'm not saying some don't need help. What I am saying is this this bill entails so much more than helping those who need it. It includes so much that has nothing to do with healthcare. There is no reason we should have 92 weeks of unemployment, or that people who aren't trying to do anything for themselves should be allowed to continue living off of other. I believe something needs to be done about the health care system, but nothing works better when controlled by the government. Private sectors competing against each other is what makes things affordable in this country. Just wait, this is not a good thing. I would be very surprised if you believe it is a year after you finish school.
And fyi... I'm not well off. My husband and I own a very small heating and cooling company. I remember times a couple of years ago scrapping pennies together for double cheese burgers. We have worked hard and budgeted our money to get ti comfortable. Now my family is being punished for it.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Fraud is rampant! My mom was recently hospitalized for laproscopic surgery- after she got out, a nurse came to the house 10 times in 3 weeks. 
We told them we didn't need the nurse, Mom was eating, drinking, going to the bathroom, no fever, etc. They insisted as Medicare was getting billed, anyway.
Why? If it is un-necessary, why have the visits and the bill? Save the visits for someone that really needs them.


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## maple hill farm tina (Mar 14, 2010)

My husband broke his ankle and leg on Thanksgiving morning - compound fracture to the ankle, three spiral fractures to the front leg bone. Three surgeries and two months later, the bills are coming in. We have insurance. Our part of the insurance premium is $502/month. The bill from the hospital was over $37,000. Our part is $4000. We haven't received the surgeon's bill, the anesthesiologist's bill, or the bills for physical therapy yet, but we fully expect to hit our maximum out of pocket for the year ($8,000) for an individual. We are both teachers, and we have five children. Decades ago, a family could survive such an injury. Now, it will be devastating for us. $37K for three nights in the hospital? Why? It's the inflated costs of health care (due to litigation, malpractice insurance, fraud, and other things that ARE NOT related to actual CARE) that will destroy us. And that will only get worse as more governmental control and governmental agencies are involved. As it stands, it will take us several years to pay off these bills.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

We've been required to have health insurance here in Massachusetts for years now. You have to put your insurance info on your state tax return, or face a fine


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

The thing I don't like about private sectors running everything is that it inflates prices rather than keeping them down. Utilities were supposed to stay reasonable with that logic, and it obviously didn't work. Now we have companies making millions treating the symptoms while hiding and/or ignoring any actual cures. We have insurance companies charging thousands per year or month on the off chance you do get sick, with no true return on your investment.. Emergency services are considering switching to the private sector. Imagine that nightmare.

Here's a question I never understood. Car insurance is mandatory (and expensive to boot, even with a good record), but nobody complains about it, even when the fine is often jail time rather than a tax at the end of the year.

Sorry, I just don't trust the private sector at all. Capitalism is great on paper, but in reality it leads to Wall Street bankers and health insurance companies who feel justified charging 10x what you can realistically expect to owe should you need it. Capitalism NEEDS regulations. It incites greed and sociopathy without it. Now, if we the people truly owned and controlled the government as we used to, regulations and government run things wouldn't be an issue. Too bad our right to overthrow everyone in the government has been stamped as treason. Nice easy way to keep us in line. I say stop paying them. There's hundreds of millions right there. Make them work for minimum wage, and make sure we can immediately "fire" them the minute someone does a Todd Akin. Make sure they pay attention to what we want, not their pocketbooks.

PS in case anyone is truly curious, I'm non political. There isn't a party in this nation that hasn't disgraced itself, and the only person I could truly support (provided we learn to bring back the dead) was Teddy Roosevelt, though I might think about registering to vote for Hillary if she chooses to run next election. She ran the country for 8 years under her husband, and nothing would kill Limbaugh faster than to watch a woman win.


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## romanad (Sep 22, 2012)

Totally agree, themixedbag. The whole system is messed up. 

It is impossible to "blame" one person for what you don't like in this country. We are supposed to have a system of checks and balances so no one person can accumulate too much power anyway, although they seem to manage that better in other countries. 

Still, I have to say that it is rather hurtful to blame people for being in poverty. My parents were both college grads. We lived in Appalachia while I was a child, and no matter how hard they tried, only one parent ever had a job at a time. My dad worked as a well digger for many years. He would work longer than 12 hours a day some days, and it was back breaking work for minimum wage (what was it back then, $3 or something like that?), no benefits (insurance, vacation, sick leave, etc.). He still has trouble from some injuries he got back then. So...why are we blaming those who are less fortunate than we are? Those of us who manage to live comfortable lives don't realize what a fine line we live in. Poverty is an ever looming threat to us all, and many people who are hard workers and think they have it make become ill, lose a job, whatever, and are thrust into it through no fault of their own. People do abuse the system, yes, and that needs to be stopped, but how many will we hurt by cutting programs that many who have fallen on hard times really need?

Time to stop blaming those who have less than we are and find a way to make it so that we really do all have the same opportunities, and that we don't have to watch our friends and family die because of poverty and lack of insurance.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Really, these times are when we need to stand together the most. Divided and different as we are, we all need each other to watch each others backs.

I have read ObamaCare, every page. It has very little to do with healthcare and much to do with control. It's actually pretty scary. 
The first phase is in place, get each other pointing fingers saying "you raise the cost of our health insurance". The first group they are picking on will be smokers. Now, the idea that smokers raise your insurance is false for a few reasons, the tax paid on cigarettes already goes to childrens healthcare (well, it's supposed to) and when you get the idea that they cost you, they do not. They get sick young and die quickly usually still young. There will be no care for them anyway, painkillers only, period, no matter what the issue is. Unless they are a higher job holder with money to appeal to the panel. The new tax for being a smoker is @ $5000.00 a year. If you do not pay, you do not see a doctor for anything. 
Elderly next. Comfort care only for anyone over 70 unless they make enough money to pay themselves and appeal to the panel.
Obese next. Have you seen the government guidelines on obesity? I think we'll all be wearing size 2. People who can't loose weight due to genetics, diabetes, etc? Comfort care only, unless you can afford to appeal to the panel and pay for it yourself.
This bill causes our poor, disabled, and elderly to get less healthcare then ever before in history. Their best hope will be to find a black market doctor. Scary huh? 

Gets better, the panel is 50 people, all handpicked by Obama. These 50 people get to sit and go through applications for healthcare, surgeries, orthadonture, even your childs tonsils, etc. and then decide if you are going to get any of these procedures. Anything that is not normal health maintainance must be approved by these 50 people who will soon be in charge of deciding on all the healthcare for all the billions in America. 

Think it's not true? Just wait and keep your private health insurance as long as they will let you. As soon as they can push in the single payer, we all get the same care. As little as possible.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Does anyone have any info on where to go to find affordable health coverage?

I make an approximate $13k a year and though my hubby works fulltime with benefits, we are in a position that we can eat AND pay bills but having to use the budget for groceries, gas and other neccesities to cover my health insurance premium would just not happen.


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

Thank you goathiker! Every one just has their head a hole. Research people, research. It's not a good thing! 

And to say we have checks wand balances... How many executive orders has Obama used? Look it up, read about them. 

Liz, we use Standard Security Life it's pretty good and they have plans for all income levels. We just choose to have an expensive one with life insurance attached.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

I stay happy knowing if crap gets too bad, Canada isn't that far away. I'm sure there would likely be a revolt long before then. People are realizing that no one in the government is honest, what with Republicans trying to legalize rape and Democrats trying to eliminate the Constitution. Our checks and balances don't work anymore, and honestly, I think the 2 party system is largely at fault. We should NEVER have started paying elected officials, either.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

TheMixedBag said:


> I stay happy knowing if crap gets too bad, Canada isn't that far away.
> .


 Yeah, you do know that Canada threw all American refugees out of their country and closed the border about 18 months ago right? Many of those people are now sitting in military jail for life charged as traitors. They will shoot you if they catch you crossing and no one will harbor you.


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

Google says it didn't happen. I'm also pretty sure I count as an immigrant, not a refugee. If I move, I'm doing it of my own accord, not by force. Besides, it's not the only country on the planet.

I'm sorry, but that's just coming off as a conspiracy theory to me. Bush used WAY more executive orders. He also, I don't know, declared war after Congress and the UN told him not to. Let's just go ahead and say he planned 9/11 too. You act like the President has any power beyond putting his name on things, or the intelligence to do half the stuff people think he will. I still say it's better than Romney selling the US to China (I know the whole government is still doing so-awful hard to pay off 2 wars, and it's the perfect "reason" to do it).

You want to throw blame, look at our government as a whole and the corporations unregulated capitalism has allowed to buy our elected officials. We still have the right to overthrow members of our government, but fear based media keeps everyone too divided to care we've been bought by the corporations. Put blame where blame is due and stop giving an idiot attention and credibility.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Umm, unless you qualified for refugee status, you were not allowed into Canada easily. They are no longer accepting refugees, so, I hope you have a critical job that cannot be given to a Canadian. The waiting list to get in is about 3 years long once you complete the paperwork. The requirements are very high. If the job you can do can be given to one of their citizens, they will not accept you.
And yes, all of the military refugees who were residing in Canada and have not changed their citizenship have been sent back.
Here I'll help you http://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-immigration-faq.html

And while you are spouting your stuff, my son has been in and out of Afagansitan for 6 years and really knows what's going on there. You should hear what we have too listen to somedays. I can't even describe what people go through over there.
Congress agreed to both wars by the way. Why don't you check out Pakistan right now? Check out the laws that have been put on us the last 4 years?

Sorry, Austin


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

I don't know what you plan to gain from moving to another country but have at it. There isn't a country in this world that it would be better in. 
Nobody complains about car insurance for several reasons. But here's the most important one... It's not federally required to have it. The states require it if you choose to drive on their roads. Don't like it, you don't have to drive.

Google says it didn't happen, huh? Lol Check into Google's political stance and realize they are not going to put anything in their search results that would incriminate their views.

Our troops are being prosecuted for doing their jobs and yes it is Obama's fault. Remember, he's the commander and chief. He has put so many new requirements on to the amazing men and women that put them at great risk. Then they are getting prosecuted for things that would have gotten them medals in the past.

What's really scary is what a lot of people are believing. This thread itself is good example of that. 

Goathiker... god bless your son. THANK YOU, HIM, AND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY FOR YOUR SACRIFICES!!!


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## NCacioppo (Jan 21, 2013)

Oh, and if you think our country isn't covering things up (hello Benghazi!) you desperately need to think again.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Liz - look into aflac - it's not a complete insurance - but it sure helps ALOT - Eric might be able to get a discounted rate through his work if 5 or more employees have it


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

What would I gain from moving to another country? Mational healthcare, nationally recognized gay marriage, a 45% atheist population and a lot less bickering over which politician is bending us over the farthest. See, this is what you don't get. IT'S NOT ONE MORON! It's the whole system! Republicans selling us to China, Democrats to corporations, Tea Partiers promoting hate, politicians from all sides supporting rape, religion in schools and government, cutting free speech, taxing our very existence. IT'S THE WHOLE SYSTEM. Not one idiot paid to speak to the masses. Bush is guilty of everything Obama has "done" (to do, you must be competent) and worse, where's the outrage for his illegal wars and all the embassy attacks that happened on his reign? Where's the outrage for the BILLIONS spent each year on a failed drug war that MULTIPLE presidents have supported? Where's the outrage for denying civil rights to everyone, something that both Bush and Romney were against? All I see is rage Fox News already spewed.

Perhaps I worded the Google bit wrong. When looking up Canada border closings, it only comes up with articles from October and one from years ago. This from a search engine that happily allows you to look up and read articles on how they're an evil rich corporation bent on killing free speech. A search engine is just that. You want to see tricks, tell it to do a barrel roll. That's the extent of Google's big conspiracy.


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## aceofspades (Dec 26, 2012)

NCacioppo said:


> Not affected my butt... See those if use whom work are paying for those who would rather sit around and smoke crack and ignore their 6-10 kids' needs.
> 
> I could go on fir ever... all I can say is whatever you do, do your research. Don't believe the liberal media!
> 
> Oh, and there us a HUGE difference between equal opportunity and equal outcomes, you should only get what you are willing to earn for yourself and I shouldn't have to pay for those who don't!


I couldn't have said it better. You should get what you are willing to earn for yourself. I should not have to work my ass of to pay got Those who choose not to.

There are people than can not work and need the assistance. Unfortunately they can't get the help they need be because of all the lazy worthless people that are taking advantage of the failing system.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

maple hill farm tina said:


> My husband broke his ankle and leg on Thanksgiving morning - compound fracture to the ankle, three spiral fractures to the front leg bone. Three surgeries and two months later, the bills are coming in. We have insurance. Our part of the insurance premium is $502/month. The bill from the hospital was over $37,000. Our part is $4000. We haven't received the surgeon's bill, the anesthesiologist's bill, or the bills for physical therapy yet, but we fully expect to hit our maximum out of pocket for the year ($8,000) for an individual. We are both teachers, and we have five children. Decades ago, a family could survive such an injury. Now, it will be devastating for us. $37K for three nights in the hospital? Why? It's the inflated costs of health care (due to litigation, malpractice insurance, fraud, and other things that ARE NOT related to actual CARE) that will destroy us. And that will only get worse as more governmental control and governmental agencies are involved. As it stands, it will take us several years to pay off these bills.


Gee, that whole thing sounds like a nightmare! I can't add much except, try to keep track of all the incoming bills, don't pay anything until it looks like all the bills are in your hands. Go to the hospital billing department and see if they will reduce anything. Sometimes they have a sliding fee scale based on income.

I hope your husband is feeling better and good luck!


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