# New and need advice please!



## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi everyone. I'm new to the world of goats as well as this forum.

I got my first kids last night. We weren't planning on getting goats until next year. Hubby and I just bought our first home in January. We live on 8.6 mostly wooded acres in the country. Money's tight. But a situation arose that ended in me becoming the owner of two 5 week old Boer cross baby girls.

The previous owners had to find homes for them immediately. A neighbor of theirs turned them into their county and the law showed up to tell them they had to be re-homed. They didn't want to put the babies on craigslist because they fell in love with them and didn't want them ending up as someone's dinner or sacrifice. They new I love animals, have chickens, and have a nice size property. So they asked me if I'd take them.

At first I said no, due to the money situation. But they were persistent, and the more I learned about the babies, the more I knew I would end up with them. Not because I couldn't resist their adorable faces, but because I was afraid if I didn't take them, they would die.

The previous owners (as well as me) know nothing about raising goats. Fortunately I have a family member (her name is Barbara) who has raised Boer goats for two decades, so I have her to call with questions. Anyhoo, here's how they were raised by the previous owners.

They got them at a few days old, having been abandoned by their mama. They bottle fed them goat milk replacer until day 11. Then they began to wean them off the milk. They offered them grain. The babies wouldn't touch it. So they put the grain in a blender and bottle fed it to them. The babies wouldn't drink water from a bowl, so they bottle fed them the water. They never offered them hay.

Three days ago they stopped getting milk. Instead the previous owners were feeding them electrolytes three times a day from a bottle. Water from a bottle. And maybe the blended grain mixture...from a bottle (not sure if they did the grain...she just said electrolytes and water). 

The bottles are human infant baby bottles with the holes in the nipples cut bigger. When the babies drink, they cough. Aspiration I believe.

I picked them up last night. When we got home, I looked them over. They are COMPLETELY infested with lice. This morning when I woke up I checked on them. They were both covered in diarrhea, all over their tails, butts, and back legs. I had no milk to give them. So I didn't know what to do but give them more electrolytes until I got back with milk from Southern States. (I now know I just added to the diarrhea problem by doing that).

I called Barbara in tears, convinced they were going to die. The diarrhea is so bad that they can't control it. It just runs out. She said they had scours. I told her everything I just typed above about the previous owner's care and she flipped. She said they were way too young to be weaned. Electrolytes are not to be given like that, and the diarrhea is probably from the amount of electrolytes they were given, as well as lack of solid food/milk. She told me to give them each 2 TBSP pepto bismol, then feed them 4-5 ounces of milk as soon as I got back from SS. Then tonight give them 1 TBSP pepto and another 4-5 ounces of milk. Does that sound about right? 

I am going to dust them in diatomaceous earth as soon as I can get the diarrhea to stop. Will that work for the lice?

I picked up two kid/lamb nipples (the red ones that attach to a soda bottle) while getting their milk. They don't aspirate anymore. But they still have diarrhea. And they sleep a lot. Is that normal? A lot of the time they look like they are sleeping while standing up...which they didn't do last night.

I'm sorry for all the questions. I don't want to lose these babies...it will break my heart. I'm at a loss...I feel like I'm in wayyyy over my head. I wasn't ready for goats. But I knew if I didn't try, they'd probably die. Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated! And any treatments that don't cost much is needed...we are new home owners with two young boys and are just barely getting by.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

wow!! you were handed a can of worms. those babies are way too youhg to be off milk. i agree with barbara. do as she says and you may just pull them through. good luck!!


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## silveira_ranch (Jun 14, 2013)

How far is your friend? Does she have a mama that you can borrow? Or can you get milk from her?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

first..welcome
yes way too young to ween...I recommend no milk for 24 hours..electros only 3 cc pepto and 3 cc C D Antitoxin given just under the skin 
they cannot digest the milk right now with the runs being so bad...their tummy is way off poor things...after their poop begins to thicken..start milk...use whole cows milk from the store...weigh each one and multily that number by 16 to get their weight in Oz's then multiply that by 10% to see how much milk they need in a 24 hour period...divide that into 4 feedings...hee is a good link to read on caring for bottle babies...best wishes..
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/overfeedingnewbo.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a electro recipe you can make

Homemade Electrolytes
A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses( or what ever you have on hand or honey)
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar

Mix well and drench or let them drink it.
*never give plain water from a bottle...*


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

as for lice try kitten flea powder...comb them well


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Electrolytes are not to be given like that, and the diarrhea is probably from the amount of electrolytes they were given, as well as lack of solid food/milk. She told me to give them each 2 TBSP pepto bismol, then feed them 4-5 ounces of milk as soon as I got back from SS. Then tonight give them 1 TBSP pepto and another 4-5 ounces of milk. Does that sound about right?


I do agree they were given too much of "nothing" so this is why they have the runs so bad....a quality electro will keep them hydrated while the pepto gets them dry and sooths the tummy...the recipe I sent is a good one and well balanced...you are between a rock and hard place...because their body needs food...so here is what you might try...one bottle milk...second feeding electros..and so forth...if they turn very watery..no milk...if things begin to taper off..and thicken up..then continue the rotation until they are fully recovered...then go full milk...I hope I did not confuse you lol...


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

silveira_ranch said:


> How far is your friend? Does she have a mama that you can borrow? Or can you get milk from her?


No she's too far for that, unfortunately


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

You definitely did the right thing by taking them!

Water from a bottle is bad for a kid! They get hemoglobinuria from it. Bad, bad, bad. Solid food in a bottle is not great either. Electrolytes actually help with scours, but there is no reason to feed them bottles of it if there is no problem with the milk. 

Can you get a temperature on them? If they get fluid in their lungs, like you said, I would worry about them getting pneumonia. 

I have never heard about the milk replacer that you use, most will use Land o lakes or whole cows milk (not to say that yours is bad, but there must be a cause of the scours).

I would continue using the pepto, just making sure that they don't get constipated. If you have any probios or yogurt, than I would give them that as well. And the electrolytes, like Cathy said.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

If this info helps...I weighed them today...I weighed myself first, then held each one in turn, and weighed myself again. Then subtracted.

The larger of the two babies (named her Butterscotch) is 9.4 pounds. The littler one (named Caramel) weighs 8.4 pounds. I was told they were 5 weeks old.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

The milk replacer is called "Ultra 24 All milk protein nursing formula" for mult-species, including goats. It was what the lady at Southern States told me to get. I called Barbara to make sure, and she said yes, to get it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, they are very small. They should be around 30lbs. Poor starving babies. They are at an age where they may have Coccidiosis causing the scours. You can use Sul-Met drinking water solution for that. (from your feed store) Give them each 2cc. on day 1 and 1cc. days 2 thru 5, by mouth. If you can find liquid or injectable Di-Methox, it is even better.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

How soon should the pepto clear up the diarrhea?


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

I know this next question is going to show how stupid I am.

How do I measure in cc's? I can do ml and tsp but what is cc???


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

montanadolphin said:


> How soon should the pepto clear up the diarrhea?


It may take a day or two


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

A cc and a ml are the same thing.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> here is a electro recipe you can make
> 
> Homemade Electrolytes
> A half gallon of hot water
> ...


I don't have molasses, but I do have honey. Is that ok? I also have ACV with the mother ( I put it in the water for my chickens), and sea salt.

So I should NOT use the powdered electrolytes the previous owner gave me, correct? Barbara told me to stop them completely.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

goathiker said:


> A cc and a ml are the same thing.


Ok now I feel REALLY stupid.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Honey is fine, that's what I use as my neighbor has bees. 
I won't give them the powder anymore and not a lot of the good electros. maybe 1 to 2 ounces between their milk bottles.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

montanadolphin said:


> Ok now I feel REALLY stupid.


Don't. I didn't know either for a long time. I would look at a syringe that measured in mls trying to figure out how many ccs it was.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> first..welcome
> yes way too young to ween...I recommend no milk for 24 hours..electros only 3 cc pepto and 3 cc C D Antitoxin given just under the skin
> they cannot digest the milk right now with the runs being so bad...their tummy is way off poor things...after their poop begins to thicken..start milk...use whole cows milk from the store...weigh each one and multily that number by 16 to get their weight in Oz's then multiply that by 10% to see how much milk they need in a 24 hour period...divide that into 4 feedings...hee is a good link to read on caring for bottle babies...best wishes..
> http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/overfeedingnewbo.html


I don't have any C D Antitoxin. I don't know if I can afford it if it's expensive. I know that sounds terrible! I shouldn't have taken them if I couldn't afford the medicines they need, but I couldn't let them die without trying to save them myself!

We drink Vitamin D whole milk from the store...is that what you mean?

I already gave them two bottles each today of the milk replacer...one this morning when I got back from the feed store, and one at 4 p.m. I was going to give them one more bottle before I went to bed, after I give them their pepto.

I'm worried though, cuz you just said about 2 tsp of pepto, and barbara told me 2 TBSP in the morning and 1 TBSP at night. I gave them their first dose of pepto this morning...did I overdose them????? She said 2 TABLEspoons!


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

goathiker said:


> Yes, they are very small. They should be around 30lbs. Poor starving babies. They are at an age where they may have Coccidiosis causing the scours. You can use Sul-Met drinking water solution for that. (from your feed store) Give them each 2cc. on day 1 and 1cc. days 2 thru 5, by mouth. If you can find liquid or injectable Di-Methox, it is even better.


30lbs at 5 weeks? Or 5 months?

Sent from my iPad using GoatSpot


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Its real tough to overdose Pepto, thats the least of you worries.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

dont worry about the pepto...its hard to over dose...and yes..whole milk like what you drink is perfect...powder replacer cost a lot and some babies cant digest it...
.
I understand funds are tight...so lets just work on getting them dry...I agree cocci can be an issue..
how is there poop after those milk bottles??


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

still said:


> 30lbs at 5 weeks? Or 5 months?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using GoatSpot


I would expect 25 to 30 lbs at 5 weeks for Boer crosses. Girls may be a little smaller but not a whole lot.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

still said:


> 30lbs at 5 weeks? Or 5 months?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using GoatSpot


Boers usually make 30lbs by 5 weeks. But since they are crosses (with who knows what), it is a little bit too high of an expectation. They should be at least 20 pounds, though.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

goathiker said:


> I would expect 25 to 30 lbs at 5 weeks for Boer crosses. Girls may be a little smaller but not a whole lot.


Wow!!!! I guess I totally underestimated weight at that age!! You learn something new all the time.....I've got Nubians so I guess I always use them as a "standard".....I've never weighed mine at that age but I'm not great at guessing weights

Sent from my iPad using GoatSpot


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

They male owner of the goats said they were Boer mixed with Billy. But I thought billy goats were male goats, so I thought he didn't know lol...is billy a breed?

Edit to add: would a picture help? I have a couple of pictures, not the best but you can see them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

billy is just another term for buck. Yes pix always helps : )


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I missed alot.lol...I agree with everything goathiker said : ) and yes on the ACV..with mother is even better : ) honey is fine..
Cant wait to see a pic of your new babies...sounds like you are up to the task to care for them...


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

ok, the one with the brown all over her head is Butterscotch, the larger of the two.
The one with amost all white is Caramel, the little one.
The first pic is of the pic the owners sent me.
The last three are of them today. We had a thunder storm and they were petrified. I could hear them crying from in my house. I keep them out in what I now call the goat shed. It was a slaughter house (I think...it had splash guards on the walls above a makeshift table which we removed) so I brought them inside and kinda blocked them off with a screen and cardboard box. They pee A LOT and with the diarrhea, I laid a plastic mattress pad down, then an old blanket, then a sheet, and finally a towel...to soak up the pee and poo. So in some of the pics you can see some of the diarrhea on the sheet.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Oh, and the pink faces came from my attempt at giving them the pepto bismol LOL


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Aww, they look just like my little Shep. He was Boer and Saanen.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

So far the diarrhea has not improved with the milk replacer. Then again, I was giving them water from the bottle...not knowing any better. I know know it's bad, bad, bad so that has already stopped. I was concerned with the amount of diarrhea they were having and would become dehydrated. Another thing I did wrong that may end up with dire consequences. Lord help me not make anymore life threatening mistakes!


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

They look alert and bright eyed!!! Very cute!! They don't look "sick" in those photos so don't worry too much.......just continue with the previous advice and hopefully they'll keep on keeping on!!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

I will sara. Thanks everyone for your support and advice. I'm scared...I suffer from anxiety and I've been blessed that I've kept it at bay...but let me tell y'all, today has been a trial. So much fear and self doubt. I'm afraid to go to sleep cuz I'm afraid to wake up to two dead beautiful baby girls.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh my goodness no wonder you snatched em up! You might want to unplug whatever it is there, you dont want them chewing on the cord, & they will.


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Are they polled or disbudded (forgive me if you already mentioned that!)? At 5 weeks, their horns should at least be visible 

But they are very cute, and lucky to have such a caring human-mommy!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awe...they are sweet!!!! they do look crossed with dairy....and yes..they are small and a bitthin..but not on their death bed...
did you stop rplacer?? you need to treat for cocci...sulmet is the cheapest I beleive..its a sulfa drug that you give orally...straight from the bottle..no mixing..five day treatment. Dimethox is another choice...avoid Corid...another Cocci treatment..could make things worse for the girls...
put some hay in there for them to chew and play with...at 5 weeks they will nibble mostly...so just put a little ..no need to waste much


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

It's a chest freezer, and I watched them the entire time they were there. It was only during the thunder storm. They are PETRIFIED of them. I had to bring them in from their outdoor enclosure cuz I could hear them crying and trying to get out from INSIDE MY HOUSE and all my windows were closed! So my heart broke and I ran out and got them, and set that makeshift area till the storm passed. They stood for a while, mouthed the screen and cardboard, but didn't touch the plug. The plug is the exact reason i never left them...I sat half the time in the enclosed area with them, and half sitting on a chair just watching them when they fell asleep.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> You might want to unplug whatever it is there, you dont want them chewing on the cord, & they will.


good advice...if you need it there then check it several times a day for chew marks or it being unplugged ( in case its your freezer)


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

TrinityRanch said:


> Are they polled or disbudded (forgive me if you already mentioned that!)? At 5 weeks, their horns should at least be visible
> 
> But they are very cute, and lucky to have such a caring human-mommy!


Nope they have horns. They are little balls on top of their heads. The hair is covering them, but when you rub and scratch their heads (which they LOVE btw) you can feel them. So no, they are not disbudded. And I don't plan on having them removed at any point. I can handle getting butted by horns...it's happened before growing up and over the years. I told my boys once they get their full set of horns they aren't allowed near them...don't want the goat kids hurting my human kids!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Cathy...they have hay in their enclosure...bedding hay and feed hay. They don't even mouth it. Nor do they show any interest in the bowl of grain I have set out for them. But they like my t-shirt. And my shoe laces. Oh, and my hair and earlobes too. They like to mouth everything the can't eat, and won't even attempt to mouth the hay or grain. Go figure.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> good advice...if you need it there then check it several times a day for chew marks or it being unplugged ( in case its your freezer)


Yea it's a chest freezer. I posted right before you posted this...i never left them while they were there during a thunderstorm. i took them out and put them back in their home which I call the goat shed when the storm passed...they are PETRIFIED of thunderstorms.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol...they will lol..grain might take longer and with the runs I wouldnt even worry about putting it out ..they do love to taste eveything...they know you are their new mommy and they want to get to know you...I think with the new knowledge you have and the tools you need..they are going to be just fine...
as for the horns...very tiny for 5 weeks, both cocci and tape worms stunt growth but also lack of good nourshiment...most goats, expecially Does..arent a problem to humans with horns...teach your boys to be watchful and teach the goats to be respectful and you will have harmony


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

montanadolphin said:


> Nope they have horns. They are little balls on top of their heads. The hair is covering them, but when you rub and scratch their heads (which they LOVE btw) you can feel them. So no, they are not disbudded. And I don't plan on having them removed at any point. I can handle getting butted by horns...it's happened before growing up and over the years. I told my boys once they get their full set of horns they aren't allowed near them...don't want the goat kids hurting my human kids!


That is fine! There are plenty of gentle horned goats. Since yours are bottle babies, they will be very sweet and cuddly even when they are grown up 
If I didn't know any different, I would say that they are at most 2 weeks old. Poor little girls  They are definitely on the right track now.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

This morning I went out to feed and check on the babies and I have good news! I don't know which baby did it, but I found little poops on the hay...they look like rabbit turds...that's good, right???


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

that is more than good....that is awesome!!! if you clean their bums you will be able to tell who still runny....dont need to give any more pepto tot he one with berries...dont want to plug her up... good news indeed!!!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> that is more than good....that is awesome!!! if you clean their bums you will be able to tell who still runny....dont need to give any more pepto tot he one with berries...dont want to plug her up... good news indeed!!!


Yay!!! I'm so happy!!! Since at least one of them has more solid poop, that kinda rules out cocci, right? Heavens, I though I only had to worry about cocci with my chickens! I didn't know goats could get it too!

Will the lice spread from goats to chickens as well? My chickens are parasite free...they are my original "babies" (even though they aren't babies anymore...they are almost full size...a few weeks shy of laying), so I've made sure they are kept clean...I clean their coop and run constantly, they always have fresh water and food. I've never had to treat them for pests...internal or external. But if the lice can spread, I need to know so I can keep an eye on the chicks.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

montanadolphin said:


> This morning I went out to feed and check on the babies and I have good news! I don't know which baby did it, but I found little poops on the hay...they look like rabbit turds...that's good, right???


:stars:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thankfully lice are picky lol...goat lice will not get on your chickens nor will chicken lice get on goats, or you for that matter...cocci is the same..
even though one baby is solid..I would still treat for cocci..these little gals were not cared for properly ..leaving their defences down..worms are opportunistic creatres 

to work on the lice: use a very fine tooth comb to comb the lice bugs off..have a bucket of strong soltuion, ACV and water..dip the comb in ach time you comb to remove bugs from the comb and get a bit of acv on the girls..towel dry them off ...do this a few times a day to get the lice under control...you can use a few things to control the lice...but kitten flea powder maybe be the cheapest..if you stay on top with the combing and dusiting you can beat the lice without heavy chemicals..


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Thank you Cathy! I dusted them with Diatomaceous Earth last night. I still see lice on them, but not as many unless they are hiding somewhere I didn't look.

I went out a few minutes ago to check on them (I am a big time worrier) and saw that they were mouthing the hay! They haven't shown any interest in it at all, nor the grain...which I actually got Caramel (the littlest) to eat a piece of out of my hand!

I took more pictures too  Caramel LOVES her face being rubbed! (I wonder how many pictures I can fit in this post LOL)


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm so glad they are doing better! They are soooo cute!! In regards to the lice issue I don't know if it's cold where you are but you could also clip them as well. That takes care of it for me.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

awe...too sweet!!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

still said:


> I'm so glad they are doing better! They are soooo cute!! In regards to the lice issue I don't know if it's cold where you are but you could also clip them as well. That takes care of it for me.


I'm in central Virginia. It is definitely not cold. Well, today it's just mild...we've had rain for three days so we are staying in the 70's. But our normal summer temps are 80's, 90's and occasionally over 100.

When you say clip them...you mean like shave them with a hair clipper you use for humans?


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Based on the pictures, does anyone know what they are crossed with? I know Boer, but what might the other be?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

they are SOOOO cute!!!

for lice, just keep dusting with DE, and dust around their pen area. it should go away soon. if you want, you can rub some essential oils on your goaties to help them smell nice to you and icky to bugs. you can use lavender, tea tree, lemon, rosemary, eucalyptus, etc etc. i just rub some on my hands (dilute if you want) then rub all over them, or put in spray bottle with some water and mist them. i haven't done this with goats, but i do it to my dogs and helps with the flea/tick issue with them.


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

montanadolphin said:


> Based on the pictures, does anyone know what they are crossed with? I know Boer, but what might the other be?


They could be a Boer/Saanen or Boer/Kiko cross.

They are absolutely adorable though. Sooooo cute.


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

montanadolphin said:


> I'm in central Virginia. It is definitely not cold. Well, today it's just mild...we've had rain for three days so we are staying in the 70's. But our normal summer temps are 80's, 90's and occasionally over 100.
> 
> When you say clip them...you mean like shave them with a hair clipper you use for humans?


Yes!! I give my goats a clip every spring because the deer bring lice to them. I don't have a lice problem anymore and it's a drug free solution. It works for me but I've never clipped ones that small. My babies are always a little bit bigger by the time I have to clip them but I'm sure it would work. They might look funny for a little while. I use a small guard so that it's not too short.....they have a little bit of hair still.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yep you can shave them off with human clippers...makes a less then friendly enviorment for lice : )

they look to have some dairy in them...

the little one by the green bucket looks hunch up...is she always standing like that?


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> the little one by the green bucket looks hunch up...is she always standing like that?


Yep pretty much. She stands like that and sleeps too. They lay down sometimes, but I catch them sleeping on their feet a lot. She shivers a lot too...


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

They are beyond adorable!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

nancy d said:


> They are beyond adorable!


Thank you Nancy!!! I think so too...but I may be a little biased


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

have you taken her temp?? I use a cheap digital from wal mart...normal temp is 101.3- 103.5 ....
babies hunch like that when tummy hurts...im sure its a worm issue along with having such bad scours...might be uncomforable to lay down..


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

I have an extra digital thermometer...i'll take her temp next time I go check on them...which will be in the next few minutes


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> have you taken her temp?? I use a cheap digital from wal mart...normal temp is 101.3- 103.5 ....
> babies hunch like that when tummy hurts...im sure its a worm issue along with having such bad scours...might be uncomforable to lay down..


Ok, the little one's temp is 100.2. The bigger one is 102.2.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...100.2 is a tiny bit low..do you have probios or yogurt??


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

No I don't have yogurt. I have probiotics but not for goats...I have some for humans, and I have some for chicks (sav-a-chick)


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

I'm about to bring them back in my house. I figure it's warmer in here than outside...it's a bit chilly today so even though they are in an enclosed home, with lots of hay, maybe keeping them inside my actual house will keep them warmer. I have a heating pad and a hot water bottle...should I use one of those and make caramel lay on it?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hummm.....never used human probios..or chicken..lt me look it up...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I cant find anything concrete but I feel human should be just fine...if its pill form crush one and add enough water to drench..: ) 

if anyone disagres...chime in )


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

It won't hurt, but it may not have any effect. The gut flora of different species often differs, and seeing as humans and chickens are both omnivores and goats are herbivorous, we probably have different flora. Also make sure there aren't any vitamins in the chick probiotics because I know goats can't have vitamin k.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> The gut flora of different species often differs


That makes perfect since : ) bummer...lol


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

gut flora differs, but yogurt seems to be beneficial for everyone - goat, dogs, humans, chickens alike. I would think it wouldn't hurt to give the human ones to the goats as long as there are no other additives that could harm them.


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## Curious (Feb 6, 2013)

We all have some in common. Human certainly won't hurt. I don't mean to sound like a naysayer.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

sorry about my absence...had visitors show up. I brought the babies inside...they are sleeping now. I fed them another bottle (2 of 4 for the day) and they are laying down curled around each other snoozin'. I'm gonna have hubby pick up some plain yogurt on his way home from work this evening...I don't want to take any chance giving them probiotics not intended for goats.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Ok hubby brought home plain yogurt. What do I do??


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Just mix a tablespoon into each of their bottles. It will mix easily with the warm milk.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

The probiotic for cattle that comes in blue & white tube works well for goats.
But yogurt is great.
You are doing an awesome job with these two!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...great job with these little ones : )


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks y'all! I kinda feel like i'm drowning though


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I understand...its like giving birth to twin toddlers lol..we are here for all the moral support and advice we can give...


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I understand...its like giving birth to twin toddlers lol..we are here for all the moral support and advice we can give...


Lol that's a perfect analogy!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

we all feel like we're drowning sometimes, but you're doing great with these two!!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

It very true. I had the experience of dealing with a virus I'd never even heard of this year. There's always something new to learn but, once you get the basics down. It really does slow down and become a great experience.


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## ndeboer (Jun 20, 2013)

Montanadolphin,
I have alpines that kidded a little over a week ago, and I've been looking for a place to get rid of the extra colostrum and milk that got from my does. (They don't have the best udders, and the babies were only nursing one side, so to prevent mastitis I milked the side the babies weren't.) I'll be honest -- I didn't clean the udders as well as I would have for human consumption, and I didn't filter it. But the does are CAE free from the breeder, so you wouldn't have to worry about that being transmitted. I would be happy to send you what I have, which is approximately 2 gallons, frozen in breastmilk bags (hey, it's what I had on hand...). 
I am new to goats myself, so if anyone with more experience has more ideas on this, I'd be glad to hear them!
Good luck with your babes!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

actually breast milk baggies are perfect to freeze colostrum, I have several in my freezer...when you need colostrum you only need a few oz at a time...so its perfect


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

ndeboer said:


> Montanadolphin,
> I have alpines that kidded a little over a week ago, and I've been looking for a place to get rid of the extra colostrum and milk that got from my does. (They don't have the best udders, and the babies were only nursing one side, so to prevent mastitis I milked the side the babies weren't.) I'll be honest -- I didn't clean the udders as well as I would have for human consumption, and I didn't filter it. But the does are CAE free from the breeder, so you wouldn't have to worry about that being transmitted. I would be happy to send you what I have, which is approximately 2 gallons, frozen in breastmilk bags (hey, it's what I had on hand...).
> I am new to goats myself, so if anyone with more experience has more ideas on this, I'd be glad to hear them!
> Good luck with your babes!


First, what is CAE????? 
Second, how do you send me frozen milk without it going bad?
I am grateful for the offer, I'll talk to hubby and see if it's ok to give my address 

Wow, you guys are wonderful here. Brings me to tears...so much support which is exactly what I needed! THank you thank you thank you.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

happybleats said:


> I understand...its like giving birth to twin toddlers lol..we are here for all the moral support and advice we can give...


Giving birth to twin toddlers...boy is that exactly how I feel! My boys are a year and a half apart (they are 8 and 10) and that was a chore LOL, plus I babysat my niece from 6 weeks old when my youngest was 6 months old. Talk about anxiety!!!

I think a lot of my despair is from not having enough arms legs and heads. Hubby works all day every day. I'm responsible for everything else. The housework...cleaning, laundry, meals, dishes, dusting, vacuuming, paying the bills, refereeing the children, homework with them, etc. etc. Then I have the garden to till, plant, weed, harvest. The yard to mow and weed eat. Take care of the chickens, dog, cats, and now two baby starving goat kids.

Does anyone have a cloning machine I can borrow? I'll just make four or five more of me and I should be good.


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> we all feel like we're drowning sometimes, but you're doing great with these two!!!


Thank you for that! Y'all are so wonderful here! Amazing that I found kindred spirits on a goat forum!


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## cheyenne (Aug 21, 2011)

> Will the lice spread from goats to chickens as well? My chickens are parasite free...they are my original "babies" (even though they aren't babies anymore...they are almost full size...a few weeks shy of laying), so I've made sure they are kept clean...I clean their coop and run constantly, they always have fresh water and food. I've never had to treat them for pests...internal or external. But if the lice can spread, I need to know so I can keep an eye on the chicks.


I belive that lice are 'species specific'... in other words chicken lice only like chickens... goat lice only like goats.. etc... at least that's what I've been told. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!!!


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## montanadolphin (Jun 18, 2013)

That is good to know about the lice! TY


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## ndeboer (Jun 20, 2013)

montanadolphin said:


> First, what is CAE?????
> Second, how do you send me frozen milk without it going bad?
> I am grateful for the offer, I'll talk to hubby and see if it's ok to give my address
> 
> Wow, you guys are wonderful here. Brings me to tears...so much support which is exactly what I needed! THank you thank you thank you.


Haha, I totally understand the address thing  
My husband said he thought we could overnight the milk in a cooler with dry ice. The horse barn I worked at in college did it that way for their semen. I'd have to call the post office to know for sure how that all works, though.
CAE is Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis, which as far as I can understand is a degenerative-type disease that can be passed from mothers to kids through the milk. 
What breeders sometimes do is take the babies away right away before they can nurse from mom, pasteurize the milk to kill the CAE, then feed it back to the babies. 
I didn't pasteurize the milk after milking - just threw it straight in the freezer 
And thank you for what you're doing for those goaties!


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