# Flat rumps % Essential?



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I was just wondering how many of you looked over a doe's general appearance, even if her good outways the bad, if she had a steep rump, would you sell her?


----------



## MysticHollowGoats (Sep 10, 2008)

I would try to breed her to a buck that has a super flat rump and see if this trait could be corrected in the offspring.
Its all about genetic traits...you don't know how strong that trait is with her until you see her kids.


----------



## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

if it is moderatly steep no. But anything more then just a slight i will, because more then likely she is going to have problems kidding. I have also noticed that steep rumps go along with postynedd and narra rumps.
beth


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

the reason I am asking is because of my new doe, Saca . . . other than her steep rump, she has pretty good conformation. . ., but I am thinking of selling her come spring and retaining a doe kid (the buck she was bred to had a nice rump.) So I cannot really decide . . . but I have all winter, I suppose. See her rump . . .


----------



## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

thats a possibility see what she has and then decide.
beth


----------



## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I agree with Sparks...depending on the buck she was bred to...wait and see if it is corrected on the kids before you make a decision.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

N'kay . . . thanks . . .


----------



## MysticHollowGoats (Sep 10, 2008)

sparks879 said:


> because more then likely she is going to have problems kidding. I have also noticed that steep rumps go along with postynedd and narra rumps.
> beth


I have one girl Speckles that has a steep rump similar to Saca's, she is my only nonregistered goat AKA a pet that produces milk :wink:

She was my easiest kidder this year and each kid was 4lbs+...She was bred to Mr. Bo Jangles and the kids rumps were definately an improvement.


----------



## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Actually my two best does have/had especially steep rumps. Besides milking over a gallon per day, their temperment was great and they were easy for kidding. 
I guess it all depends on the doe herself :wink: 

Of course if you're trying to produce correct does for mainly showing, I would sell her, if her kids carry on that trait just as strong.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Since we don't have alot of shows in our area I'm planning on breeding mainly for milk, but I would like to have very nice conformed does too though,.


----------



## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

its not the case all the time...the birth canal goes up through the hip bones and then follows the spine, when does have a steep rump the kid has to fold to get out. But does who are wide can usually pass them well. Most does that i have seen with steep rumps are also very narrow. I too have one doe with a semi steep rump, but she always kids extremly easily, she is extremly wide from thurl to thurl.
beth


----------



## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

Well if you especially like her you can sell her kids as pets and just keep her for the milk. Have you seen her in milk? Maybe she won't even be a good milker?


----------



## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

i think she just got her recently. Another reason its good to keep her until she freshens. see what kind of production she has....just because the pedigree is full of great milkers or show winners doesnt always going to mean that that particular animal will be. and vice versa. Some of my best does have come out of so so breedings. 
even if you are breeding for milk or meat or pet rather then show i still think its a good idea to go for better quality, you will get more years of production and nicer kids. i have a good friend that owns a dairy. She buys from show herds and markets her kids to show homes. her profits are better and she has found that she has less problems in the long run, rather then just having does good enough to milk.
beth


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Oh . . . I forgot to mention I won't be selling her until after freshening. I really do like this doe, so there is a fifty fifty percent chance of me keeping her. this will be her second freshening--- and she just recently dried up, and so her teats are quite long, and what's left of her udder seems very nice. The teats hang straight down as well--- I hope they will do likewise when she freshens. Daisy is also dry, but her teats sort of tip off in all directions. I hope that straightens out come freshening. I do want to keep Saca because her former owner said her 1st freshening was really nice.


----------



## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

I must agree with Beth on that one. 
Yup, you should wait for babies and milk. We once bought a doe and we were told that she was a great milker - but she was really our worst. Best to see for yourself.


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

It depends on the slope for me. . . . if it is extreme, I would probably sell her after freshening (unless she has in incredible udder). See what her kids look like, if they are an improvement, then I'd keep her around and try to keep a doe kid as well to see how she matures.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

You know, that's about all that's extremely wrong with her conformation. the only other faults I found was not level enough, and she could benefit from straighter legs. Her shoulders are okay, I think, and she has very sharp withers. But I just got back from the goats and it kind of seemed to me that even though her teats are really long (shes dried up) her udder isn't as snuggly attached as Daisy's--- but it could be that hair. I was thinking about putting her on the milk stool and checking it out but she would dislike me even more if I did, so I decided bad idea. 
So I'll see I guess. 3 more months to go! 
:shrug: But I (might) post a pooch check on her tomorrow--- she's a bout 2 months along now. Daisy is feeling much better--- her eye and nose have stopped running, but she still has a cough. I love this doe!!! :drool:


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

When does are drying up, their udders can look terrible - you cannot really evaluate an udder until after she freshens or while she's being milked regularly. So, don't worry about it looking snuggly attached now as it won't look so great. 

Just remember that faults in the conformation typically get worse with age. Very few things are actually improved as a doe matures. So, she may not be as productive or last as long as a doe w/ straight legs - I'm sure you knew that though.


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

Oh yes . . . crooked legs aren't great. My Lamancha does not have nice legs. Saca's aren't that bad, just a tinsy bit crooked, but still could be improved. She is 110% better looking then she did in the pix--- she was chewing in that pix by the way, but she still has a barely noticable overbite. All I can say is if she freshens with an udder that 'wows' me then I will keep her, but if she doesn't I will sell her and perhaps retain a doeling. But she was bred to a black buck and she herself is black and white . . . so what do you guys think of the chances of having a black and white baby?


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't know a thing about genetics in regards to coloring. . . . I just wait till the babies are born!!  Some of the strangest colors have come from some of my goats so I'm not even gonna try and guess! There are some websites on coloring genetics. . . . maybe someone else has the links, can't think of them right now.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the nice thing about rumps is that they can level out with freshonings and with maturing. Also set up she may look much more level then an "on the move" picture like the one posted.

I would keep her and set her up with her udder and all etc and then decide- right now is not the time to be deciding if a doe is worth keeping or not, she isnt showing her full potential.

If you saw pictures of Sweet Pea before she freshioned she had a terrible rump (still on the moderate to steep) but when set up she is MUCH more level.


----------



## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Personally, when I go to look at a doe. I'm not to concerned about the rump. I want to see what the progeny looks like and if she's an easy kidder. I can work with improving rumps, udders, legs, necks, etc. But I do have a wide variety of bucks to choose from. You definately have to work harder to find a buck that works with the doe and comliments her faults. I don't think she's that bad. Take note of what she produces and see if you can better her next kids by choosing a good buck. I don't think she'll have kidding problems either. Her rump really doesn't look that bad, and she's kidded before? so I don't think you'll have problems with that. Good luck!


----------



## gotgoats (Nov 11, 2007)

Here are some dumb questions, maybe you guys can help. I have never shown animals nor goats. I just have a total of 9 and I started out with 2 and we have really enjoyed them, and are slowly expanding. 
How do you go about learning about conformation? I am a visual learner (I can read all about something, but it doesn't click unless I see it). Is there a good website or manual that shows the difference between good vs. bad conformation? Does anyone have any good vs. not so good conformation pics? What should I be most picky about? 
As far as the steep rump goes, from what I read it may cause complications in kidding? Is that the main problem? How do you determine a steep one from "nice" one? 
I would hate to be breeding bad traits or problems.
Sorry to be so full of questions. I read the posts and everyone is so good about informing, but also giving their thoughts on stuff. Thanks


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

here is a thread: http://thegoatspot.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4728&hilit=goat+conformation


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I recommend the book "Illustrated Standard of the Dairy Goat" by Nancy Lee Owen. This is where I learned all I need to know about conformation. She has drawings of well-conformed goats and those with bad conformation. VERY good book!


----------



## Sonrise Farm (Sep 18, 2008)

I looked up that book and everywhere I looked it was over a hundred dollars . . . :shrug:


----------



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I got it from the library. Checked it out last November and just recently returned it. . . . no one else wanted it so I was able to keep renewing it. I'm sure there is a newer book somewhere, I just really liked that one.


----------



## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

there is another book written by harvey considine called dairy goat judging techniques. it was written in 84 but its very good and explains some good and bad points as well as faults and disqualifications. Always remember that even in books its just one judges or persons opinion. There is also a book that adga puts out when you become a meber that explains some things. Going to a show is a great way to learn good and bad confirmation traits. 
A good way to start is start learning the parts of the goat, then when you are at a show listening to a judges reasons you know what they are talking about when they say this doe is extrenly wide from thurl to thurl. Or this doe could use a bit more cleanliness about the brisket.
beth


----------



## gotgoats (Nov 11, 2007)

Thanks for the info. The pics help some, but I do think learning the terminology would be of help too. I had been to a Boer show but really didn't understand some of what they were referring to.


----------



## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I use this to learn the parts of the goat.

I even reference it when people talk about stuff on here -- I am still learning


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So is that image saying the thurl is the hipbone?


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

No, the thurl is the hip joint, not the blade.


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Nope, I would keep her if I liked her. I've had does with ski slopes for rumps. They never had a problem kidding and I just bred them to a buck with a good butt.


----------

