# LOVING clicker training!



## AACmama (Jul 29, 2010)

Pardon me for a Proud Maaaaaah-ma moment. Please skip this if you find such things annoying. 

Thanks to those of you who recommended clicker training. I am sooooo impressed! It amazes me what good manners our boys have learned in just one week of this.

A couple weeks ago I tried clicker training them as a group. That herd mentality is so strong, especially for the yearlings, that I tried working with the group of four so they could stay together without being distressed. Disaster. I dislike being mobbed. I also dislike when the yearlings butt the babies out of their way.

We started over, then, this past week, training one-on-one. It's really delightful to see them relax and focus on their human (with great interest, I might add). The first few days we worked just on learning the click/treat connection and on trusting that it's really okay to be away from the herd. There were lots of loud complaints the first day or two, but those are settling nicely.

The babies (3 months) are now able to come without jumping. Huge hurray!!! We had been pushing them off to discourage it, but I'm beginning to think they saw that as play and actually _reinforcing_ the jumping. So this is huge for my little leapers.

Gordy, our yearling workaholic and overachiever, has mastered coming into a stand straight ahead of me (like a dog's recall, only without the sit). Today we introduced "back," which had seemed to elude him before the clicker. Wonderful!

Gil, our yearling with great distaste for work, has decided Corn Chex trump stubborness. His "come" isn't as clean as Gordy's yet (unless I'm backing up), but when you consider the growth in attitude, is monumental improvement.

So again, thanks for the encouragement to try clicker training! Thank you, thank you!

Rose-Marie and the Saanen lads (who have started to beg for training time now...even Gil!)


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

What do you use for treats and how long is their attention span when drilling?


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## AACmama (Jul 29, 2010)

Bob,

I tried a number of things and discovered that my boys love all things corn, so sometimes it's generic corn chips (extruded like Fritos, rather than the tortilla chips, and less salty than Fritos) or generic Corn Chex (they don't read labels). 

Right now we're working about 7-10 minutes per boy per day. I haven't seen any problems with attention span at that, even with the 3-month-olds. I'd like to work up to 15 minutes per guy per day. Beyond that, I'm hoping to get them working in pairs.

In a perfect world, I'd like to have 2-3 sessions a day, but other duties call. Go figure.

Rose-Marie and the Saanen boys


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm working on an article for clicker training and would appreciate any tips or insight on what methods worked best for you.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

I had a great first experience with Chex.
I took Corn chex with me on our trip to Cat Canyon.

I held the Chex in my left hand and my cane in the right with the clicker. I held the cane close to the end so that I could extend it later. The goats were browsing. I went into the middle of them and let Diego smell them in my left hand. 

Then I said "point". and touched the tip of the cane to his nose. Then gave him a Chex. 
I did this several times, then let him touch the cane rather than touch him. He picked it right up.

Then I would hold the cane farther and farther away so that he would have to move to touch it. And he picked it right up. The clicker was clicked at the moment the cane touched his nose, or his nose touched the cane.

Mikey did the same.


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## AACmama (Jul 29, 2010)

Hooray Bob! Sounds like you and your boys had a textbook-perfect session. So glad it worked well and that the Chex was a good enticement. I'll bet General Mills never dreamed we'd be using their cereal this way. :lol: 

The cane/touch stick is a great idea...we might need to introduce that one soon ourselves. It's encouraging to hear the teaching went so well.

Rose-Marie and the Saanen boys


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## cryptobrian (Apr 26, 2012)

AACmama said:


> Hooray Bob! Sounds like you and your boys had a textbook-perfect session. So glad it worked well and that the Chex was a good enticement. I'll bet General Mills never dreamed we'd be using their cereal this way. :lol:
> 
> The cane/touch stick is a great idea...we might need to introduce that one soon ourselves. It's encouraging to hear the teaching went so well.
> 
> Rose-Marie and the Saanen boys


I typically organize a (professional) clicker training session each year for our 4-H group. Prior to the training the kids each make their own touch stick, which is in itself a lot of fun. At craft stores you can find these wood balls with a hole drilled halfway into them. Perhaps they are doll heads, I don't recall. We paint those bright red and then the kids decorate a dowel and glue into the ball. Some kids will attach a lanyard to the end along with the clicker to keep it all in one hand, freeing the other for the treat bag.

At the end of that first session, the goats will readily be touching the red ball to get treats. We've had goats that wouldn't otherwise be interested in obstacles follow that red ball up and over the A-frame without a problem. Ultimately, the goal is to lose the touch stick and begin reinforcing more direct behavior, but some kids just keep using them, because at the end of the day, it just works really well ... as soon as they see that stick extend they goats will go wherever needed just to put their nose on that little ball.

Brian


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

cryptobrian said:


> I typically organize a (professional) clicker training session each year for our 4-H group. Prior to the training the kids each make their own touch stick, which is in itself a lot of fun. At craft stores you can find these wood balls with a hole drilled halfway into them. Perhaps they are doll heads, I don't recall. We paint those bright red and then the kids decorate a dowel and glue into the ball. Some kids will attach a lanyard to the end along with the clicker to keep it all in one hand, freeing the other for the treat bag.
> 
> At the end of that first session, the goats will readily be touching the red ball to get treats. We've had goats that wouldn't otherwise be interested in obstacles follow that red ball up and over the A-frame without a problem. Ultimately, the goal is to lose the touch stick and begin reinforcing more direct behavior, but some kids just keep using them, because at the end of the day, it just works really well ... as soon as they see that stick extend they goats will go wherever needed just to put their nose on that little ball.
> 
> Brian


Thats awesome.


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

This sounds very interesting, I am looking forward to Rex's article, where can I find out more on this?


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Jake said:


> This sounds very interesting, I am looking forward to Rex's article, where can I find out more on this?


Watch for it in an upcoming issue of Goat Tracks Magazine.


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

Good, I am subscribing to the digital version this month !


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Hmm.... I'm curious about clicker training too. Heard it works great for dogs, never thought of it for goats. I'll have to read up on it. Maybe my dog could benefit from it too!


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

Hummm I am new to goat packing so i may be dense but i don't get it. so the goat will touch the stick what good is that?
and what happens when you loose the clicker?


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## cryptobrian (Apr 26, 2012)

fivemoremiles said:


> Hummm I am new to goat packing so i may be dense but i don't get it. so the goat will touch the stick what good is that?
> and what happens when you loose the clicker?


LOL, yeah I suppose that probably seems pointless if you aren't familiar with it ... the "touch" is a starting point, though it is actually quite useful in and of itself. For example, leading a goat up a ramp into the back of a truck ... if the goat will follow the stick well, they'll follow it right up and into the truck. Thus it becomes a useful lead for directing your goat ... which might not bee too necessary for some, but in our 4-H club I have 175lb goats being handled by 80lb people and in a couple of cases the handler isn't the owner of the goat, so the goats are disinclined to simply follow them.

But again, the touch isn't the end goal ... it's really a starting point in "shaping" behaviors and ultimately generalizing response. In this particular case, the goal is too generalize the action of following the stick to following the handler and going where they're directed wtihout having to being pulled. It's build a positive relationship and trust between the handler and the goat, enough so that these goats will eventually follow them into water even.

But the target stick is really used in the beginning of clicker training because it's about the easiest first "action" to teach and what you are really trying to do is associate the "click" with the treat after having done something good. So each time the goat touches the stick, they hear a click and get rewarded ... and are realizing they did something good. Normally, the stick would go away and they would realize the click is a general sound for when anything they just did was really good. And getting that association with the click is what allows you to reward "at a distance". The reinforcement needs to be immediate, and so you can click the moment they perform the right action. Over time, you click different things, more complex things, and gradually shape the behavior you desire. The example of the truck could continue to be shaped until what is being rewarded (clicked) is voluntarily putting a hoof on the ramp, then stepping on the ramp with the front two legs, and eventually getting all four legs on the ramp and all the way up the ramp and into the back of the truck. This behavior can then be associated with a word or command and generalized to perhaps mean getting up and into or onto anything at all.

The clicker itself is just a tool. Once the behavior is fully defined you won't have a comlete dependence on the cliker.

As you can probably imagine, it requires a a lot of patience!

Here's a Youtube video of a sheep being clicker trrained ... it shows the initial touch pretty well and ultimately how that is being used to lead the sheep through an agility course.

[youtube:1ey1wn3a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKnSls3zz9A[/youtube:1ey1wn3a]


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

I guess i do not need a clicker. when billy baulks at jumping in to the truck i just say Get behind. and my dog moves in and presto billy is in the truck.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

fivemoremiles said:


> I guess i do not need a clicker. when billy baulks at jumping in to the truck i just say Get behind. and my dog moves in and presto billy is in the truck.


I'd like to see that when you and the goat are getting in a canoe ;-)

Clicker training is used to teach tricks to all kinds of animals, and usually for more than simple movements. So running an obstacle course, teaching them to sit, open and close doors, roll over, shake hands, take a defensive stand on command, circle the wagons, etc. are all behaviors made easier to teach with the clicker.

But certainly, not everyone needs one.


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

It seems to have a great deal of value in pointing a direction for the goats to go on the trail, or to come to you from a distance. Well worth knowing.


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## McDanAx (May 24, 2010)

That video is really cool...
It amazes me how fast animals can be taught things if just a little time is spent with them...


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