# Newborn kids from yearling.. no milk!



## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi, I have a yearling nubian who just kidded twins this morning. Her udder is quite small and they are having trouble getting anything from it. Since I have no other coostrum, what should I do? Bottle feed them from another goat (I have a Saanen in milk with plenty extra). Any other supplement? One kid is active and constantly trying to nurse and getting upset when there isn't enough. The other seems to be getting weaker and weaker and is less and less interested. I am especially worried about her.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would run to Wilco and grab some cow colostum replacer or goat if they have it... Once you get a few ounces of that into them you can give them half colostrum replacer and half goats milk for a day and then move them to straight goats milk. 

Have you checked to be sure that the plugs are removed from the mom's teats? Is she congested and the swelling won't let her milk out? Make sure you check her over too.


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

Yes, I milked her a bit and tried to bottle feed them with it. I picked up the Durvet brand lamb and kid colostrum paste and gave them each 10ml. I also tried feeding them some Power Drench mixed with milk off another doe. Should I try to feed them more straight milk? Give them more Power Punch? They didn't seem to like the Power Punch or the colostrum paste. I also have Probios I could give them.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, see if you can get some straight milk into them. It's the most important, everything else is extra. Have they had their Bo.Se shots and did mom get one less then a month ago? Very important in the Willamette Valley.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree...get that colostrum into them...

Go to the vet and get some Oxytosin(sp) for milk letdown.... stimulate her udder by milking her ...as much as possible and feeding every drop to her kids....bumping the udder and allowing her kids to nurse will help as well...

Feed her Alfalfa and grain her.....give her a little at a time and increase... if she isn't use to it....then increase slowly....

Make sure she drinks plenty of water...if she will drink molasses water that is good to get her to drink more....

Also ...make sure as mentioned.... that her teat plugs are out...and not blocking the flow.... some do take some work to get out...

Powered goat colostrum is better than none.... :hug:

Bo se shot is good to give... 1/4cc to 1/2 cc depending if they are small breed or large breed and the size in weight they are....


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

They weigh about 5 lbs. Nubians but kinda small. Definitely noticing signs of selenium deficiency (wobbly rear legs). I gave them 1/4 cc each. They seem to be doing better after the colostrum paste and Power Punch. I was worried to give them too much milk without the colostrum, but I will do that tonight. Is it worth mixing in some Power Punch or Probios with the straight milk? I will see the vet on Monday about the Oxytocin, thanks so much for the help! :hi5:


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

I had a doe that kidded about 2.5 weeks ago that we had some issues with. I ended up giving her a calcium paste that you give just before and after they kid to help bring their milk in. Within a day of giving it to her I noticed a difference in her udder size.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> They weigh about 5 lbs. Nubians but kinda small. Definitely noticing signs of selenium deficiency (wobbly rear legs). I gave them 1/4 cc each. They seem to be doing better after the colostrum paste and Power Punch. I was worried to give them too much milk without the colostrum, but I will do that tonight. Is it worth mixing in some Power Punch or Probios with the straight milk? I will see the vet on Monday about the Oxytocin, thanks so much for the help! :hi5:


 1/4 cc is OK...

I hear ya about giving to much regular milk to newborns...not good on their little systems....... colostrum is best for them now......give the colostrum paste....and keep getting it from momma or allow the kids to nurse.... If you could get the powder form..for goats kids... you will be able to feed them more of it...per feeding.... I wouldn't think the paste would go to far.... But I know... you can't just let them starve either...

Monday will be to late for the Oxy shot...you need to give it right away...


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

They are calling out a lot and seem to be in pain. I think maybe they are constipated and feeding them milk was not helping things . Should I give them milk of magnesia and/or baking soda mixed with water?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

probios wont be of any use right nwo since they arent using their rumens.

Give them straight goats milk in a bottle - they are past the need for colostrum now. 

If they havent pooped you may need to help them poop by giving an edema (use a syringe with no needle and squirt a couple ccs into their rear. )

Also add a couple CC of karo syrup to their bottles each feeding - this will help soften their stools so they can pass the poop on their own easier.


I also second the giving of calcium to mom -- 30cc - this will help her come into milk


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

I just read that colostrum replacers and supplements are only useful for the first 24 hours? I wish I had gotten the powdered "replacer" instead of the paste, which I think is more of a supplement. If the situation is the same in the morning, I will try administering an enema plus CD antitoxin shots and then just electrolytes for 24 hours, then half electrolytes and milk and gradually shift over.

from http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=72
"Colostrum Supplements and Replacers - Do not confuse these two types of products. Newborns must have colostrum during the first hours after birth. If the dam is colostrum deficient, the producer must use a colostrum replacer. The best colostrum replacer is frozen colostrum taken from does on your property who have already kidded. This colostrum will have the immunities needed for your particular location. If you don't have a supply of frozen colostrum, then you must use a commercially-prepared goat colostrum replacer. In such instances, usage of colostrum supplements along with the replacer is often helpful.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if you wait to long to do an edema the kids could get an impacted colon and die (yes I want to scare you because no one told me and I lost a kid this way and almost lost another who was quite valuable). I suggest you give one tonight

it wont hurt them if you do it


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

They have pooped the slimy black tar a few times today, but I haven't seen the orange type yet. I went down to check on them and they are sleeping soundly. Since they don't seem to be in pain I hope they will be good till morning. First thing, I will make sure they poop.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

they should poop after every bottle or be pooping all the time if nursing off mom. Sometimes its hard to see if they have pooped when with mom since some mothers do eat the poop for the first few days.


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

How much water do you use in an enema on a newborn? I tried about 20cc and one kid came out with some solid orange poops, the other had black green slimy glop.
I nursed them both on a bottle of straight milk. The fist one drinks pretty eagerly, the second one (with the slimy poop) adamantly refuses to nurse a bottle no matter how hard I try. Then she will jump out of my lap and run over to try and nurse her dam, but she is not really getting anything and calls out. I noticed her belly is kinda sloshy, though. I wonder if she is still backed up or what's the best thing to do for her. I tried giving her a second enema and it just came out clear water.
I am going into town to pick up calcium drench for the dam and--if I end up needing it--electrolytes, CD antitoxin, milk of magnesia, b-complex vitamins. Anything else that would be good to get? I am wondering if it might be edema in her udder. I am massaging it whenever I am around.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Depends on the size of the kid but anywhere from 3-10cc of warm soapy water can be used as an enema....the baby thats refusing the bottle, allow her to be with her mama, and use warm to hot compresses on her udder and get that milk to come, give her calcium and make sure she's drinking too. Try getting the baby onto the bottle by holding the nipple close to the teat behind mama, cover the teat she's after with your finger, she'll grab the one from the bottle.

My Angel is a doe who doesn't have an "udder" like most does would, hers is just skin over mammary glands with 2 teats attached, no room for capacity at all but she feeds her kids very well and most often when I would check her udder, there would be no milk but each of the 6 kids she's raised have been fat and healthy.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my.. a 6cc syringe would of worked...if you didn't get any poo from 6ccs ...another full syringe can be given... put it up there slowly and you shouldn't need to do it again.... 

Sounds like... you got them to poo.... the orange poo is colostrum and the black is the poo..is the poo plug of the other...

Some kids are stubborn to the bottle...put some molasses on the nipple.... have someone tickle the tailhead on the back as you try...move the nipple in and out slightly... leaving it in the kids mouth...
It is OK.... if the baby tries to nurse momma....it helps to stimulate momma to produce milk....

Sloshy may mean... she is getting milk.... does she feel... like she is getting some from her momma?

No... she isn't needing anymore enema....it sounds like she cleaned out....she should go on her own ....watch for it....

Put warm compresses on momma's udder and massage...there is some kind of stuff to rub on it and I can't think of what it was.... if you think it is a congested udder.... Does it look like... she should have milk or does she look really small bagged... Any hard lumps?


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

Ok.. so first the good news-- kids are scampering around and not whining for the first time! still somewhat weak, but doing much better.
now the bad news-- my doe's udder has not filled out, still feels very hard and i am noticing large tumorous lumps above each teat. i massaged them and heat packed for a few minutes and it seemed to help, but the only milk i can get out is when i strip the teat. the bag is an average size for a first freshener, but with a hard inner "core" to it. no pain, not hot to the touch.. just hard. i tried a "goats prefer" calcium drench and... UGH! goats DO NOT prefer it. that was the single worst goat medicine experience. she absolutely thrashed about like i was trying to murder her and her mouth got frothy and it was terrible. i tried to get 20ml into her, went very slow and was as careful as possible to not get it into her lungs, but she coughed and snorted after every attempt and i don't imagine much went down the hatch. five minutes later and she is chewing her cud and seems normal, albeit eyeng me from across the stall with intense distrust. should i try the injectable kind (they had it for cows)? i also gave her some injection b complex.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes you can give the injectable -- give it slow though (SQ)

calcium burns -- if you got any on your skin Im sure you felt how it does burn. So yeah its needed but its not comfortable to take orally


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

that would explain it. poor girl, i've no idea how anyone succeeds in giving it orally unless they get it down the goat's throat as fast as possible, but the directions emphatically warn against getting any in their lungs so..... what kind of dosage for the injection stuff? fiasco only lists "calcium gluconate" and suggests a very large oral dose for milk fever or injections for opening the cervix during labor.. maybe i will just wait and ask the vet tomorrow.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

the same as orally 30cc

split it up and give 15cc at a time SQ per side


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

thanks stacey!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hug: ray:


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