# Not paying for breeding



## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Back in the fall my buck got out and accidently bred my "friends" doe and the only one who saw the breeding was her. I didnt find out about the breeding until a month or two ago. Should I still be paid for the breeding, if she really didnt want the breeding then couldnt she have lute a week later? How they got together i have no idea. Maybe I can not give her a service memo to keep the kids from being registerable? what would you do


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If your buck got out, then she shouldn't have to pay. Whether you give a service memo or not is up to you.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

If they wanted a service memo would they then pay for it? Im really finding it hard that there wasnt the intention of breeding them. Would you give a service memo?


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I agree, when a neighbor's buck got in with my herd I was livid! I so did not want my registered boers bred to his ND! The responsibility to keep your buck in is yours, you are lucky the neighbor is ok with it. However, I am a little confused, is your "friend" your neighbor or is your friends doe at your house? You didn't know your buck got out? So your friend put him back? If THAT is the case I would almost suspect your friend of helping your buck get "out" if you know what I mean.  and in that case yes I think you should be paid. Good Luck!


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

No, I would not give a service memo unless they paid me.
In fact, I don't think I would give them a service memo at all.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

The doe is at my house. the doe and bucks pen is on complete opposite sides of the yard. and the doe happened to be out at the same time, seems fishy to me. She said she went into the bucks pen to give them fresh bedding, which is not her responsibility, and out of my two bucks only the best one bred her. But nothing i can do about that without proof. 
Shes now been trying to advertise the kids (not born yet). I am also frustrated that Im only finding out about it now.
She the one that let him out *Shrug*


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I wouldn’t charge. I see that being easily turned around how it was your fault and she never wanted the doe bred. Service memo I guess it depends on how good of a friend she was of mine. If she was a super good friend and I didn’t want anything to come between us I would give it. If she was more just someone I knew no I wouldn’t give it without being paid for it. I’m looking at this the same way I look at bottle kids I sell. I sell them cheap to move them along and then people want to come back and ask for papers on a $50 kid. Every paper that is out there with my lines is that many that is basically in competition with me and for that they pay extra (or I flat out refuse)


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

You seem to indicate that you suspect she did this on purpose.
And, she is advertising the unborn kids for sale.
No, I would not give her a service memo on principle even with payment.
Let her sell them as without registration.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Well, sounds like you think it was done on purpose which it does sound fishy. Is she the type of person who will smear your name all over the place? Is it worth the fight? I think she should have to pay for a memo but in the end it may not be worth the fight. Just don't ever let her near your goats again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She had no right to do things with the goats without your permission in the 1st place. Unless it was agreed upon for her to help care for the goats. Which I assume that was not the case.

If the incident was from her doing chores or an oops or she meant to do it on purpose, she is at fault.
She needs to pay for that breeding IMO.
Then she will get the service memo.
No paying for the breeding, no memo.

She at least should share 1/2 of any money that is given for those kids with you. Especially if she doesn't want to pay for the breeding.

A true friend would of asked first to even be able to get near the buck or to breed a Doe. 

She is trying to steal that breeding and the kids being born. Which she evidently wants to make money with, even before they are born. Which is a red flag.
And not acting like a true friend. 

She needs to make it right.

Has she asked for the service memo?

It is the same if she allowed an animal to get out on her watch or her hand, and the animal runs out in the street and gets hit by a car ect. 
Wouldn't she be at fault, yes. So she would have to pay for what has happened.

This all rubs me the wrong way, sorry for venting, but it is just how I feel. 

However, if you think your friendship is more important, do what you think is right.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

She has not yet asked for a memo but she is advertising them as registered. I cant force her to pay for the breeding but I can keep her from registering them until she pays. 
Thanks for everyone's input. Its super frustrating and I hoped it wouldnt get this far.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You are welcome, that is tough I know.

But she seems to be trying to get something for nothing, but I guess she doesn't realize you have to be the one who has to give the service memo, in order for the kids to be registered.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

toth boer goats said:


> She had no right to do things with the goats without your permission in the 1st place. Unless it was agreed upon for her to help care for the goats. Which I assume that was not the case.
> 
> If the incident was from her doing chores or an oops or she meant to do it on purpose, she is at fault.
> She needs to pay for that breeding IMO.
> ...


toth boer goats is right if she pays give her a memo, if she doesn't, she cant register the kids and that plan to sell them as registered goes totally down the drain.
I'm just wondering how long you have known your "friend", because if you two are childhood friends i would maybe think of this as strike one of three, if you haven't known your friend for long i would probably take into account how shady it is of her to do something like this without permission


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

I'm guessing she doesn't realize that she actually needs a service memo from you.

And, I just read your original post again. You didn't find out about it until a month or 2 ago.
So, she didn't even mention it when it happened.

Unless she was a really good friend, I wouldn't give her one period.

But, that's just me. Seems others are more forgiving than I am.


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## Old Post Farm (Nov 15, 2017)

you might want a barn cam also to keep an eye on your friend/animals just in case. maybe try to disguise it so you can watch/film your friend when she is at your house


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm not sure you CAN give her a service memo? The reason being that you were not there, so you don't know for 100% sure it was that buck without DNA testing.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm with Dayna. If you didn't witness the breeding, then you can't in good faith sign a service memo. If you were at fault because your goat got out and bred someone else's doe, the owner of the doe should have informed you immediately so you could decide what to do about it then. There's no excuse for calling you weeks or months later and asking for a service memo. That's beyond the pale. Even if your friend was wiling to pay, you can't in honesty sign a statement about a breeding you had no knowledge of until now.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dayna said:


> I'm not sure you CAN give her a service memo? The reason being that you were not there, so you don't know for 100% sure it was that buck without DNA testing.


I was just thinking about this and this was exactly what popped into my head! If you think she was capable of opening two gates and accidentally letting them come together on the one day out of 28 days and getting bred (yeah kinda sounds fishy huh?) then what is to say that it wasn't another buck and she wants to just use your registered lines? Forget that! I would tell her to kick rocks, sucks to be her but you DID NOT put the two of them together and are NOT risking YOUR reputation over this......possibly even your membership depending on what the rules are. Is that the only buck you even have? If not then I for sure wouldn't do it. You need to no longer talk to her in person about all this and go with text messages or emails (texts better) you might end up with a war on your hands and although if she drags your name threw the mud sadly there are going to be some who believe it right off the bat with no proof, but have proof for the people who are not shallow high schoolers


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This is confusing. Why was your friend's doe at your home? That indicates a close friendship between the 2 of you, which you may or may not want to disrupt. And why was she loose? Is your friend familiar with bucks and their determination to get to a doe in heat? If not, then perhaps this was a true mistake of not watching the gate closely enough? Perhaps she did not know the mating "took" until a month ago? I still would have said something, though...

But without a DNA test, you do not know your buck bred her. She needs to pay for that test, and if there is proof the kids are from your buck, then the 2 of you can go from there in deciding how to proceed. AND how important the friendship is. Could you take one of the babies as payment? I don't mean to keep, I mean to sell for yourself? That plus the DNA test may be costly enough to make her more careful in the future without ruining the friendship.

People do really dumb things sometimes, and your friend has collected a pile of dumb things in this instance. No question about that. Still, friends are needed, can be forgiven, and you two are the only ones who can decide on this.

But whatever you do, don't give that service memo without a DNA test. That test, and a frank discussion, are the first steps here as far as I can see.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Good point Dayna


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If your buck is registered thru ADGA, starting next year bucks need to have their DNA on file. By signing a breeding slip on that doe for a breeding you knew nothing about and certainly didn't witness, you are setting yourself up for potential problems with ADGA down the line. If your buck didn't breed the doe and you sign a slip, it's your membership and reputation that will be destroyed.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Unfortunately she knows enough about the goats to not handle my bucks. Anyone that enters the farm knows that only I handle the bucks, regardless she didnt have any reason to be in the pen in the first place. I am not sure why she was loose or that she was trying to get into the buck pen with does loose. But the world may never know what excatly happened. I cant say excatly when she found out that she took. I do have two bucks that she could have bred with


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Dayna said:


> I'm not sure you CAN give her a service memo? The reason being that you were not there, so you don't know for 100% sure it was that buck without DNA testing.


That's a good point
I hadn't even thought about that


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Goatzrule said:


> Unfortunately she knows enough about the goats to not handle my bucks. Anyone that enters the farm knows that only I handle the bucks, regardless she didnt have any reason to be in the pen in the first place. I am not sure why she was loose or that she was trying to get into the buck pen with does loose. But the world may never know what excatly happened. I cant say excatly when she found out that she took. I do have two bucks that she could have bred with


Then no service memo. I mean if you had 1 buck and all little bucklings were either gone before they could breed or wethered then it would be a pretty for sure thing that that one buck did the breeding but you have 2 bucks. When the doe was out did buck 2 breed her threw the fence? Just because Buck one was out doesn't mean there wasn't a fence line breeding


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All great advice.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Could be possible. Wont give her a memo


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

In my opinion, if the kids were accidents, she shouldn't have to pay and no service memo. If she wants to attach your buck's name to the kids (in the form of registration) she should get a DNA test, pay you for a breeding, and pay for the memo. Just because of the suspicious circumstances of the breeding I would not do business with her again or only offer her driveway breedings and absolutely no boarding.

Just my humble opinion.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Agree with all of the above.
It may also be time to tell your "friend" she needs to board her doe at another farm


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## Lamancha Lady (Dec 13, 2011)

She knew what happened for months and said nothing. To me it looks like she made it happen. So I would not give her the service memo and on top of that, I personally would kick her and her goat(s) off of my farm cuz if she did it once how do you know she won't do it again this fall.


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