# Concerns re: new goat



## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I finally obtained the new Nubian doe so many on this site advised me on last week. She's CAE negative and has been recently wormed. She's safely installed in her new quarantine pen and shed at our farm, she's quickly acclimated to our LGDs, and we've conquered a few other fear issues. All in all pretty good for 3 days! BUT...

1. She's still barely eating. The breeder gave me some of her food, which I am offering to her ad lib at this point. She also has good quality hay, clean water, and a few cut branches of our native yaupon (which my other goats LOVE). She barely nibbles at any of it. Consequently, her milk production is not what it should be (I'm milking a.m. and p.m.) 

2. She's extremely stressed, as evidenced by her near constant cries if I'm not out with her. 

3. She seems to be yawning (??) alot -- stretching her lower jaw open and to the side much as a horse does. I've not seen this behavior but once or twice in my other mature doe, and I don't really know it's significance. Teeth? Inadequate oxygen (as sometimes is the case when humans yawn)? Her eyelids are a wonderful rosy pink, so I don't sense anemia. Her stools are good. 

4. She kidded on 11/17. The kid was caught and retained by the breeder. She's still exhibiting vaginal discharge -- primarily a very thick milky white mucous (no odor). Is this normal? 

Do ya'll think I have anything of concern at this point? Anything I should modify or add to her care regimen? I think she's depressed!!! Thanks to all!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

She may also be in heat from what you say about white discharge.
Can she see your other goats?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree, could be in heat which would address the white discharge and mouthiness...but the yawn stretching is usually from discomfort..
I would do a few things...take temp and famancha score, just to rule out any issues
B complex is wonderful for stress...she has a new home..new dog buddy..new hay..new sounds...new everything...some goats adapt quickly while others need more time...I would be sure she can see the other goats...


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

I agree with being able to see other goats. My Nubian is rather sensitive, which is probably why I love her so much, she would not do well at all if she didn't have a buddy.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds like stress and discomfort to me....she had a single? .....is she eating anything at all to speak of?


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

happybleats said:


> I agree, could be in heat which would address the white discharge and mouthiness...but the yawn stretching is usually from discomfort..
> I would do a few things...take temp and famancha score, just to rule out any issues
> B complex is wonderful for stress...she has a new home..new dog buddy..new hay..new sounds...new everything...some goats adapt quickly while others need more time...I would be sure she can see the other goats...


OK...*Temp is 102.9* (low grade???); FAMACHA 1-2 (prob 2); breeder gave BoSe + B Compx before letting her leave their farm. I could repeat B Compx.

She does walk really gingerly...like her feet hurt. They're not in great shape, but not horrible either. Looks like they haven't had regular care. I figured I'd tackle that issue after I got her thru the initial transition... don't want to overwhelm her... Do you think I should go ahead and begin my hoof care program? I trim 1st of each month due to really soft ground. I would of course have to work on her in baby steps...

She can see the other goats when they're penned, but much of the day I let them free-range, so they'd be out of sight.

She is really eating nothing that I can see...a nibble here and there, that's it. I plan to try taking her for a walk down to the meadow after I finish this post, just to see if she finds any of those grasses appetizing...

So it looks like the symptoms of concern seem to be (1) fever, (2) appetite, (3) discomfort in feet and jaw. HELP!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Temp is good...101.5-103.5 is normal range...
I would go a head and do the hooves..if she is walking tender then they need done...the jaw could be stress as well..B complex will help...and a walk is a good idea : ) she wil like that


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Give probiotics, that may help. Since she recently kidded, she may have post partum depression.
(Don't laugh- it does happen!) 
Do you have another goat that can be near her, not necessarily with her? Being alone
can be stressful.
Some goats just take a few weeks to get over the stress of moving. 
Is your water similar to her old place? (well or city?) Maybe check a fecal to see if 
she is still harboring a bunch of parasites.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Just to add, keep her hydrated, maybe some electrolytes and probiotics... Have you seen her chew her cud?


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Goats Rock said:


> Give probiotics, that may help. Since she recently kidded, she may have post partum depression.
> (Don't laugh- it does happen!)
> Do you have another goat that can be near her, not necessarily with her? Being alone
> can be stressful.
> ...


She did enjoy the walk. Stepped right out and explored her new digs. Walked past anything green but nibbled freely on the fallen leaves (oak, hickory, sweet gum). I was better able to observe her gait, and the tenderness seems more in the front hooves than the rear.

Probiotics -- I don't have any, but I do have yogurt. Do you think that would help (provided I can get it down her)?

As for a friend for Totsie -- we only have 4 goats, including Totsie. Our other senior doe is (hopefully) bred to our young buck -- so we could companion them, if needed. The juvenile doe would be left to pair up with Totsie. Unfortunately, we'd have to actually place them together...they're already in nearly adjacent pens and that's not cutting it. ( Putting them together is not the most desirable solution, but may be the best one available to us. We discussed it at dinner this evening...we feel like we're making Lizzie the sacrificial lamb, so to speak. Unfortunately we purchased Totsie specifically for her milk, and the longer she doesn't eat, the less she gives each day...ya'll know the rest! I barely got a quart from her today, and she's a gallon-a-day girl. So it's beginning to look like the lesser of evils -- put Lizzie with Totsie in hopes the companionship will bring Totsie out of her depression, ease her stress, restore her appetite in time to pull her milk production out of the gutter! Sheesh!

What do you think our chances are -- realistically -- of turning Totsie's millk production around? Thanks!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

If you haven't seen her drink much I'd give electrolytes, or molasses water... I think you will be able to turn it around, she's just stressed, and if she hasn't drank anything that's another reason why you aren't getting much milk... Drench her if you have too.., hopefully you won't. Yogurt will work for probiotics, she might like it too, but the animal probiotics is best for her.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I brought Lizzie in with Totsie this a.m. for just a short time -- Totsie got pretty aggressive with her! During that short time, however, Totsie did mimic Lizzie's foraging behaviors: Lizzie ate hay, then Totsie ate a bit of hay. Lizzie found the yaupon ("yippee!!! Chocolate!") and when Totsie saw her eating it, she went over and took a few bites. Then she took a long drink of water, then a bit more hay. All very encouraging signs but, due to her aggression, I removed Lizzie from the pen when I left. Hmmm...

I tipped Totsie's hooves and doused them the soles with iodine. That was about all she would tolerate. I also noticed a very, very slight (almost imperceptible) swelling on her left jawline. Uh-oh. When she stretches her jaw she generally stretches the bottom jaw left. I sure hope this isn't CLA! Thoughts?


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## Sylvie (Feb 18, 2013)

Could she have a tooth abscess? That might explain her reluctance to eat. Pictures of the lump would be helpful.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

Sylvie said:


> Could she have a tooth abscess? That might explain her reluctance to eat. Pictures of the lump would be helpful.


We don't have a camera. ( But I think the location is more along the jaw bone as opposed to the lymph area at the end of the jaw, so you might be onto something w/the tooth abscess. I was able to give 2 cc B12, which seemed to pick her up somewhat. I've also been able to spend alot of time out there today, and with the company *she's beginning to eat!!!* I ordered a bottle of injectable Vit C from my vet -- hope to get that tomorrow -- as several of my books suggest that to assist the immune system in addition to B12. Does anyone have any experience using these two in combination for this purpose? I'd like to avoid antibiotics for a variety of reasons -- but will use if I have to.

I took her for another walk today. At first she was stepping pretty lively, but after about 15 minutes of her leading me around, she began to walk like a foundered horse, so I led her back to her pen. Might Banamine be advisable? I have one dose...would have to get more.


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

My first reaction to her yawning was that she's in pain. I've got horses, and they'll do that when in pain and for a multitude of other reasons. Perhaps it's just stress, another horse yawn thing. If she's foundered, I wouldn't give her any grain or anything sugary. I'd go with the green leaves she liked, and some grass hay if you have some. I don't know if she'd tolerate it, but a warm epsom salt soak in a dish pan would relieve some of the hoof pain- epsom salt really pulls it out. If you have access, white willow bark and meadowsweet herbs are naturally plentiful in salicylic acid aka aspirin. Willow is touted as a goat favorite, and perhaps they eat it so naturally when their hooves hurt. 1 aspirin would be a suggestion as well. Banamine also something to consider. Also, consider a baking soda drench. Horses will yawn when they have ulcers. Perhaps her tummy hurt from acidosis.


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## bbpygmy (Apr 14, 2014)

top_goat said:


> We don't have a camera. ( But I think the location is more along the jaw bone as opposed to the lymph area at the end of the jaw, so you might be onto something w/the tooth abscess. I was able to give 2 cc B12, which seemed to pick her up somewhat. I've also been able to spend alot of time out there today, and with the company *she's beginning to eat!!!* I ordered a bottle of injectable Vit C from my vet -- hope to get that tomorrow -- as several of my books suggest that to assist the immune system in addition to B12. Does anyone have any experience using these two in combination for this purpose? I'd like to avoid antibiotics for a variety of reasons -- but will use if I have to.
> 
> I took her for another walk today. At first she was stepping pretty lively, but after about 15 minutes of her leading me around, she began to walk like a foundered horse, so I led her back to her pen. Might Banamine be advisable? I have one dose...would have to get more.


She may have hay stuck in her cheek... that would explain the pain and the not wanting to eat. We've had one of ours do that before. it could also possibly be an abscess.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

In_Clover said:


> My first reaction to her yawning was that she's in pain. I've got horses, and they'll do that when in pain and for a multitude of other reasons. Perhaps it's just stress, another horse yawn thing. If she's foundered, I wouldn't give her any grain or anything sugary. I'd go with the green leaves she liked, and some grass hay if you have some. I don't know if she'd tolerate it, but a warm epsom salt soak in a dish pan would relieve some of the hoof pain- epsom salt really pulls it out. If you have access, white willow bark and meadowsweet herbs are naturally plentiful in salicylic acid aka aspirin. Willow is touted as a goat favorite, and perhaps they eat it so naturally when their hooves hurt. 1 aspirin would be a suggestion as well. Banamine also something to consider. Also, consider a baking soda drench. Horses will yawn when they have ulcers. Perhaps her tummy hurt from acidosis.


I'm hoping you're right on the stress thing. She is eating a little bit, but not enough. She's still really, really hollow in the flanks and her milk is down to a pint a.m. and p.m. Not good.

I tried the banamine today. Will try the Epson salt soak tomorrow. Need to get to town (30+ miles away) for aspirin, willow, etc...hopefully Monday.

I've never done a drench. Can I just use a large syringe (sans needle) for that? About what volume, and what ratio soda:water? I can put soda out ad lib, but since she's not eating much, it's doubtful she'd take it. So the drench might be preferable. Can I mix anything into it to make it more palatable, like molasses or Dyne?

Thanks to each of you for your help!


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## In_Clover (Feb 28, 2013)

You can try dissolving about a tablespoon of baking soda in say, about 30 mL of warm water and using a syringe or even a turkey baster. Just make sure you get it down her throat and not her windpipe. Massaging her throat helps her swallow. Giving her 5 or 6 Tums is also a lot easier than a drench, plus it has the calcium that she needs. Also, did her kidding go Ok, and do you know if she passed her placenta? No incident of ketosis? Did her breeder say?


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## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

How's she doing? I've been stalking this thread :lol: and was thinking of y'all.


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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

nigies4ever said:


> How's she doing? I've been stalking this thread :lol: and was thinking of y'all.


So kind of you to ask! The staph seems to be fully cleared (7 days of 9cc PenG BID, plus warm soaks with mild iodine solution) -- thank the Lord! The lump on the jaw comes and goes, but mostly it's gone. She is otherwise eating on that side, so I think the tooth abscess thing is not -- or no longer -- an issue. I have observed that the jaw stretching seems to increase dramatically when she's nervous, and she's pretty high-strung, so that's quite frequently! She loves me, which is such an honor.

Milk production dropped to 2 cups/day!!! But I think we've rounded a corner on that. I started milking 3x daily in hopes of fooling her body into thinking it had a kid and needed more production. Yesterday I got 3 pints, so it looks like we're going in the right direction.

See my post on "Green-Eyed Monster" for update on incorporating her into the herd.

Blessings!


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