# delivery went horribly wrong - advice?



## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

My hubby and I are new to goats, started with 2 pro nannies who always delivered with 1 push and were a breeze. Now their does are delivering this season, the first with an assisted delivery for a chin tuck position. We called a local goat farmer for help since we were inexperienced with abnormal presentations. Twins and mama are fine. Yesterday, our smaller doe (one of triplets) went into labor (rather small billy so we thought she would be okay for size of kid?). After giving up pushing, we decided she also had a malpresentation and rather than call the goat farmer again, we tried ourselves. I got two front legs out but head was stuck, couldn't even find it. Pushed legs back in. Long story short, 4 people later (including kind Mr. goat farmer) still could not retrieve the kid, who had moved so far up into the doe that her intestines ruptured. We euthanized her, then opened her to find that the kid was indeed huge. What I am wondering - when I first put my hand in her, I retrieved handfuls of formed poop pellets. Is this normal in the birth canal or perhaps the kid had already ruptured her intestines at that point? We are trying to decide whether to continue in this goat business or get out - it has been a very difficult week and I'm not sure I can handle goats dying in kidding b/c I get so attached to them. Took our first three wethers to market today. I feel like we "practiced" on this poor little doe and killed her and we shouldn't be in this if we can't do it right!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Please dont give up. You did not kill her. 
Im gussing that he was in there too long. Head turned back could have been an indication that he had already died that's why doe stopped pushing.
So sorry for your loss.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

:hug: So sorry for your loss. 

If the pellets were adult color and size the intestine had already ruptured. The kids have a much different poop at first and then when it is berries it is very small. 

The amount of food given in late pregnancy can also cause the kid to grow extra if mom is fed a lot. Not that this is what happened but it isn't always the bucks size that affects kid size.


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## Mon Reve Farm (Jun 25, 2010)

So sorry for your loss.

These situations are the very difficult side of keeping animals, especially livestock/production animals. Don't make a rash decision. Think about it after your emotions have settled a bit. You may still decide to "get out of the goat business" but at least you will be less stressed when making decision. Many of us have gone through these types of situations but are glad we have stuck with it because the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Sending hugs :hug:


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

I am sorry for your loss. We have all had hard situations and it is heart breaking! Be kind to yourself!You tried above and beyond to save everyone involved.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am very sorry... you had a bad ordeal.....  ... they do and can happen to the best of us..... she sounds as if she ruptured before being assisted.... we ..as well as others... have had their horror stories at birthing.... me included...and no matter what we did to try to help her didn't work...don't blame yourself....we do understand what you are going through ... :hug:


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## Saanens N Alpines (Oct 20, 2010)

I had a horrible goat birth last year that still haunts me. Lost the mom and kids  This year all 3 went fine. It's deinitely not normal that there were pellets in there and it seems the intestine would have had to be fused to the birth canal somehow for them to be in there. When it ruptured or tore it must have torn the uterus or birth canal along with it. Maybe she had a birth defect? I have had kids poo before birth and there are never any formed pellets, but the kids are stained in it, just like a human baby would be. So sorry for your loss.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

From the sound of how things went, she was ruptured before you went into her...nothing you could have done would have saved her. :hug: 
You did the right thing by putting her down too...she would have suffered alot more than she did with the labor with her insides all tore up.

The thought of having kids born here again after losing my beloved Dolly and her babies 4 years ago literally scared the hell out of me, I didn't want to put any of my girls through what she had and I didn't know if my heart could handle it if it happened again......I had a still birth here last year but what was very hard about that was how my mama cried for her baby, I lost a baby this year too...mama was too attentive to his cord and he hemmorhaged.

Things happen beyond our control...and for whatever reasons they do, it's something we can try to learn from, even though our hearts are heavy with the loss. :hug: 
We all have had the misfortune of either losing mama's and babies or had those difficult deliveries that were just as hard, it's something that each of us as breeders know to expect at some point, it doesn't get easier but being better educated with the experience can make it have a better outcome. :hug:


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I know exactly how you are feeling. We have boer goats. Back in march we had a FF doe that was a little on the small side. I thought like you and since my buck was small so should the kids. I was wrong he was only small because he was young once her due date came she went into labor and after 1 1/2 hours of pushing and us pulling the doe was loaded up and on to the vet. She ended up with a c-section, the 10 pound buck kid only lived about 30 minutes. Unlike you we were still able to save the doe. The vet said that if the kid would have been a little smaller she would have been fine but with his size since he was a single her pelvis was not big enough since she was not mature. 4 days later my other FF went into labor, she is only 4 days older then the doe before, so you can imagine how scared I was. 2 c-sections in 1 week would have killed my bank account. That doe ended up having a little 7 pound doeling just fine. Things happen and all you can do is learn from them. I am sorry you went threw this but I have decided now to wait and breed FF until they are 18 months old. That way they will be more mature and ready to have kids. My c-section doe is growing pretty well now and i am hoping to breed her this fall. Everything will get better I am sure just hug the rest of the herd and love the ones that are left.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Thank you all for your encouraging words. Tonight I am doing better, even went to my first auction and watched my boys sold and took it better than I thought I would. It was very strange to look outside in the pasture today and where there had been 8 goats yesterday, there are now just my buck, one doe and her twins. We were somewhat encouraged to hang in here by going to the market tonight, but unless we buy more does, it's gonna take a while to build back up again with just one doe and her little girl. :grouphug:


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## citylights (Jul 3, 2009)

Wow, sorry to hear this -- it is so difficult to lose babies and the does too; but it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong....I try to tell myself that this stuff happens and it's no one's fault. *sigh*


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

So is your buck with your doe and her kids? Unless you want her bred you might want to remove him. Just a thought.....What happened to the first 2 does you had from last year? I know it is hard to build a herd when things like this happen but in time you will grow faster then you think they are addicting. I started Nov. of 09 with 2 bred does. Right now I have 1 buck, 6 adult does, 3 doelings, 1 wether, and 1 buckling. They start to add up fast. Good luck and keep your chin up.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

Roger - misfortune with both of our "pro" does too. One had what seemed to be CL and was draining abscesses all over the pasture so we put her down (vaccinated everyone else), the other helped herself to a wet clover field and we came home one day to find her down. Would have tried tubing her if I had one, but she was pretty far gone. She had given us a set of twins and a set of trips (one died at a month old, appeared to be very healthy, just found him on the barn floor behind the doghouse dead). She was the best doe! (BTW, my hubby mowed the clover down yesterday since we're down to such a small number to prevent a repeat episode of bloat.) Our buck does share pasture with the does but now that we have a doeling, we are going to run a fence a new area of pasture on the other side of our house for him and hopefully put a designated kidding stall in there so it's close enough to the house to run an extension cord for electricity if necessary. (Hopefully controlled breeding will prevent these February births at 0 degrees like I had with the trips last winter and also a very little doeling from being bred too soon.) Hard lessons learned, indeed.


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## amylawrence (May 19, 2011)

PS Roger - We started about the same time as you with 2 bred does. If everyone had been healthy (I know, unrealistic), my herd might look more like yours right now. We were getting there, just took a few steps back.


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## PznIvyFarm (Jul 25, 2010)

Don't blame yourself, it happens, my FF had a huge kid that was twisted up and vet couldn't save him (we are so grateful he managed to save her) The buck was not huge, and we didn't overfeed her last half of gestation b/c we were concerned about size and it still happened. Vet said next time should be better b/c usually twins or more and they are smaller.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeah we have had a hard year too. My buck was to young to breed the older does at first and then got the younger ones right away. Mind you we breed for January/ February kids for the 4-H fair. Out of the 4 does, 2 were due the und of March, 1 due the end of april, and 1 never got bred. The 2 due in March were the young does. So I had to go out and buy 2 more bred does. Then one of them hit the other too much and too hard and she aborted. So we had to go out again and buy 2 more kids. It has been quite the year for me also. I have spent so much on these goats and still have not made any money. But it is fun and the kids like them.


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