# Trying to tame grain chaos - anybody use stand up feeder?



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Does anybody use a stand up feeder like shown in the photo from Briar Ridge Farm (more photos here: http://www.briarridgeboers.com/feeders.htm )

More importantly - have you used it with any animals that are particular bullies at feeding time?

I put this in meat market because I know a lot of dairy breeders tie goats individually or only feed on the stand. Call it laziness or stubborness - but I refuse to do that with my 10 does!

I've read some other threads and am going to try a spray bottle to stop fence climbing, extreme bullying, and try to get them to respect me more and back up while I pour the grain in.

Basically my problems are that I can't get the feed in the trough, it all goes on their heads and the ground (not sure if this stand up feeder will help with that...) and a few bully does that plow through the whole line & clear everyone out so only a few eat. I've sold some other aggressive does and now these take their place so culling is not really a good option at this point.

I don't want to put time & money making such a feeder if it won't help my problems but feeding time is extremely stressful and ruining my nights.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Is there some way to separate in groups? Once they get the routine, they will go to their assigned feeder.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Like put them in different pens at feeding time or just tell them which feeder to go to? How would I train them for that? I guess I wasn't putting much hope in to training and getting respect and calm at feeding time but after reading some other posts it is apparently possible! So would I pour food in the feeders then try to move them each to the correct one? (ideally, I have three feeders with 3-4 does at each one)


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would put them in separate pens. Do it before you bring the food out. It is a pain to do initially but once they get it, they will automatically go to their spot.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

We've used feeders placed higher and it doesn't change anything. The best thing we have found is to have a LONG....very LONG....feeder that has more than enough space. I pour a little on one end and while they all race to that end I pour the rest. LOL It doesn't stop a lot of the fighting tho. They will still fight over any grain because the goat 4 foot away obviously has BETTER grain in that spot!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I get so darn mad at them! I work hard to keep them parasite free and then they dump feed on the ground & eat it! 

I think I should just learn yoga or meditation rather than try to solve the problem! 

In my head, this stand up feeder - I could make them not stand on this style feeder until I have poured the grain in. And then once feeding the bullies couldn't get the momentum to clear the line because they'd be busy standing. I'm probably being optimistic. 

Anybody else used it?

Maybe I'll try teaching the three dominant does to come out of the pen at feeding time since I don't really have a separate place to put them. But then they won't want to go back in. Hmph.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

What I do is shut them away from the feeders if possible, but I can only do that with one pen. The rest of the pens, I carry a short - maybe 3' - piece of 3/4" wooden dowel that I can tuck under my arm. I have it fixed so the first feeder is near the gate, and I hit that first feeder running! Anyone that gets pushy gets the dowel across the chest, or on their horns. Anyone that comes in behind me as I'm feeding gets my heel in their ribs. A few times of that and they usually settle down. If they get too carried away, I walk away and they don't get their grain/pellets that day. I also have probably twice as much feeding space as I need to allow for those who do not play well with others - so to speak.


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

Locking them out from the feeding area is the way to go, but sometimes we cant always do that. So I do just about the same thing as MsScamp does. I have a broken hoe handle that split in 4 different strips up to the black handle that holds them together, it makes more noise than it does anything so I wack it on the ground an the mob scatters. Its quite funny to watch. An if they frustrate me enough to the point of selling every last goat on the place cause I dont have any hair left to pull out then I walk away an no one gets feed either!!


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

What is your current set up like? How many of your 10 does are aggressive?

My suggestion would be to seperate into two groups before feeding. Aggressive does and then the others. 

They do learn to go where they are supposed to at feeding time. I've got two does I'm milking now, one is VERY aggressive towards the other. And yes, I do tie them for feeding. At first I was having to grab their collars and put them in the same spot each day. Now in the morning, they are waiting at their "spot" on the fence because they know the quicker I tie them up the quicker they get their grain.

Nothing with goats is ever easy is it? lol


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

I use a small, whippy limb from a tree, about 2 feet long, very thin and flexible. Everybody knows what "get back and wait" means, and if they forget, they get a sharp switch across the bridge of their nose with that tree limb. They seldom forget anymore, but when they do, a quick sting on the nose and they just as quickly remember the meaning of those words. 

Once the feed is in the feeder, I step back and say "ok" and they are on their own to juggle for position however they choose.

Sorry if that sounds cruel, but it's certainly no more than they do to each other when they bite each others ears and butt each other.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm a dairy breeder, but I feed grain on the stand in the AM, and alfalfa pellets together at night.

OOOOOH BOY what a circus.

I've found what really helps is putting everyone away in their separate night pens before I bring it out, then I divide the alfalfa pellets as needed and soup's up!

It makes things much calmer. Everyone rushes to their assigned places and I am about to walk back there in peace without tripping over them or having goats running and butting each other along the way.


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

I've been tempted to try the stand feeders too, but more for a desire to try and keep them from using the feeders as beds, and potential butt building. I worry they'd just end up knocking the darn things over all the time though.

Our current set up doesn't allow us to segregate them into more than two groups, so we have a kid group and an adult group. For the adults we use multiple feeders, and like everyone else have learned to "wade against the tide" to get feed in those feeders. We don't cull solely for aggression, as it seems like they're just in constant power struggles to be the Head B***h otherwise.

In a perfect world we'd finally get around to building feeders that had a moderate slope- something with the legs higher on one end than the other. Ideally I'd like to be able to just back one end up to the fence and then throw a bucket of feed in over the fence. If the slope was right (and you didnt already have 16 goats standing in the feeder) you ought to be able to get a pretty even distribution of pellets from one end to the other without getting mauled in the process.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Critter: They literally wait for you to say "Okay"??? I'm awed. I mean - I insist upon that type of behavior at feeding time from my dogs, but I just never considered trying to get the same respect from my goats. I'm going to try it out. I'd really rather not have the hassle of moving goats around for feeding time. I don't allow them to stand in the feeders while I'm mixing the feed but that is about all the "training" I've tried. Once I step in there with the feed or start pouring - yikes!

Sunnydale: My feeders are all along the fence and I can't get feed in there because they already have their heads in the feeders. I don't allow them to stand on them so that is a start. I see your point though about having the END of a long feeder against a fence, sloped away. I can definitely see that working with one of those stand up ones.

We only feed during pregnancy & lactation, so this is not a year round issue but the stress of it every night makes me want to sell them all or not feed them anything but hay!!!

I'm going to try some of these methods and then I'm going to seriously re-think the design of the feeders in our new barn that is currently going up! I think excluding them from the feeder area would be best and then I can clean the trough, prep the grain, and pour it in etc. without their jockeying. Then let them all in. The only hassle would be waiting for them all the finish and flushing them out of that area.


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## CritterCarnival (Sep 18, 2013)

Salty: While I can't doddle too long, they actually do stay back until I say "OK" before they dive in. There is a lot of head swinging at each other, and a bunch of milling around, but they keep their heads and bodies out of my way pretty darn good!! ETA: I have 10, so not a huge herd, but enough goaties to cause injury if pushing and shoving.

I hate using the switch on them, but I hate getting stomped and knocked over even more. At first I had to sting noses a lot, and repeat "get back and wait" with every sting. Within the first few days they were better, and the lightbulb came on brightly within the first week. They still forget sometimes, but I don't fear for my safety anymore.

I do have one, Hunter, a big Nubian wether, that forgets more than anyone. But then, he was the only one I had to really get after to teach. He thought he was big enough to be boss and would screw up his eyes and fold his ears back and just keep taking the switches on his nose until he would finally snort and sneeze and shake his head and back up...stubborn, silly boy. :ROFL:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

WOW!

I'm simply floored by my own stupidity that I did not try this before. 

I marched myself down to the doe pen this evening armed with a spray bottle of water and a stout stick (that the ag extension hands out for measuring pasture ) and my dog behavior mind set on!

While I prepped the feed outside the fence, I used the spray bottle for the two that like to stand in the feeders. I had been working on "no" with a nose tap but this was obviously easier.

When I went in with the bucket of feed I spent a minute saying BACK and poking chests or tapping sides. I was able to pour in the first feeder well. I did get jostled at the third feeder and some feed spilled but overall it was WAY better. I think we can work on the actual verbal command part. Then I stayed in the pen while they ate and gave taps for over-aggression.

I came to the conclusion that I still do need to add some feeder length to get the last few very low rank does in but that is a simple fix.

Thank you for all the ideas and feedback! I'm going to continue to work to improve this so I am not furious when I return from feeding time!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't think a stand up feeder like that would help, sorry. 
We have some bullies too, and it's frustrating. Things we've done that have helped....

Feed slower eaters/bottom of the pecking order does together in one area, and the bullies in another.
It's just so much less stressful that way. I

ALWAYS feed where I can pour the grain before the goats can get to it so I don't have to worry about getting run over/hurt. I've had plenty of bruises on my upper legs thanks to careless, grain crazy does lol

Our does know their names, they also know different tone of voice. So if I sound mad, they know they better stop whatever they are doing! I won't tolerate bullying @ the feeder. I always stand over them, and give them verbal warnings, it's actually kind of funny because they will lift their ears in response lol If they don't listen, I usually tap their butts, or tap them on the horns to remind them I am watching.


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## SeventeenFarms (Dec 10, 2013)

I used to use two troughs but the bullies would leave their troughs and take them both over so I went a bit opposite - I went down to one trough and began to feed the others separately - I dont have a big herd - 4. Now the two bullies eat at the trough, one girl gets her own bowl on top of the little shed (shelter) thats only she has figured out all the things to jump on to get her there) and the forth I shake her bowl and she runs outside the pen and eats there. I dont have much a problem of them pushing me - if they jumped on me I always pushed them off and pushed them back to make them step back (like you would do to a horse to show dominance without force). After all is done I remove the trough and bowls from the pen to keep them clean. I guess maybe thats a bit too much for a big herd, but in my case it keeps me from getting run over, and everyone is getting their share, and no dirty hoofs in troughs/ bowls. I think too, that through doing this, they all figured out they would get their share and all the butting and pushing among them has stopped at feeding times.
- Ken


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