# LGD playing new babies to death



## boxsisters (Apr 20, 2013)

Our older Maremma passed and we added a 6 month old great Pyrenees to our existing adult female. We've had him for a couple of months. I had found deceased kids but assumed it was because they were still born or such and that the dog took care of things after the kid was dead. Today however, I caught him in the act of tossing and shaking a 4 day old kid. I was able to save that one but found another one dead nearby. I've put him a separate pasture and have started the process of re-homing him though I am attached to him. Do I need to go ahead and rehome or is there a chance of retraining him? Right now I am leaning that the risk is too great 

Thanks in advance!


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## Ember (May 23, 2011)

I'd get rid of him to be safe


The lady I just picked my buck up from today said her last Pyrenees took a year before it realized what it was supposed to be doing


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I need to ask you a few questions before I can advise you. Did you go through a breeder? A good breeder should be available to you now to help you deal with this problem. Are both of the puppy's parents working dogs? Far more Great Pyrenees are bred for family protection/family dogs than livestock protection. You can usually take a puppy out of LGD parents and turn them into good pets but the reverse is rarely true. Why did you choose a six month old puppy? At this age, they may come to you with bad habits that can be very hard to correct. Also, bringing a puppy home that old means you won’t get to see him interact with his littermates when you pick him up. Unless your very experienced, you should skip the most dominate or most submissive puppy. Both can develop dangerous behavior problems if not handled/trained properly. How long did you wait before leaving the puppy alone with livestock? Do you keep your LGD puppy with your adult LGD? Often adults will correct bad behavior and provide a companion for the puppy to expend their play energy on.


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## boxsisters (Apr 20, 2013)

We got him from a farmer - his parents were working LGD who worked with goats also though they were regular size and ours are pygmies. So he spent his first months working with his parents with goats so we thought he would be a perfect match. He was 3 months ish when we got him and other than working with him to leave the birds alone (we did lose a duck and goose) alone we haven't had significant problems with him until kidding season this spring. And it isn't at the birth which is what I'd suspect - its several days afterwards and it was like he was playing with them. The previous owners said they didn't play with him all that much but I suspect on his behavior that perhaps their children played with him a lot because he is desperate for human attention. We put him in immediately though we monitored him with the adult LGD who we also got as a puppy and had put in with our previous LGD who died of old age. With our LGD who is now 2 years we didn't have this problem though she went through a period of eating eggs and trying to lick the ducks to death. Maybe she isn't experienced enough at 2 to work with the puppy whose size is now getting to be larger than her. I've also noticed that he is aggressive towards the cats though they manage to stay away from him, I am concerned he would hurt them as well if given the opportunity. I may want to look for another older experienced LGD to work with him perhaps? That is the only thing I can think of that might work - if I have to rehome the puppy I will be looking for an older experience dog instead of a puppy this time anyway.

Thanks for your response.


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm not sure this is very sad, it sounds like the dog is still a pup but this is a habit that you don't want on your farm. It's a dogs nature to play but tossing and shaking is usually intended to kill as I've seen in my own dog and my uncles huskie. Whatever you decide I'm sorry you have to deal with this tuff decision!


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Before I got my first LGDs, I did a lot of research, manly because I was afraid of ending up with a big powerful dog that I couldn't control on my own (small woman that I am). One of the best sources of info I found was a book called "Livestock Protection Dogs: Selection, Care, and Training" by Orysia Dawydiak and David Sims (you can get it from Amazon). In it, they said the biggest mistake people make with their LGD puppies is trusting them with livestock too early. They recommend placing puppies in pens next to goats where they can see/hear them. You only let them out with the goats when someone is going to be around to watch them and can correct any undesirable behavior like chasing or mouthing. If possible, they advise you to watch the puppy interact with the goats when they can't see you and don't know that your around. This is so you can see how they treat the goats without you present. From there, you kind of have to make your own judgment call on when to leave pup with goats permanently. It can take some males two years before they grow out of puppy behavior to be reliable protectors. 

Most giant breeds are not considered adults until they are 2 years old. Since your other dog is only 2, I don't think she was mature enough to give your new puppy the correction that your older dog probably gave to her when she was just a pup. Since she didn't intervene when your pup killed your kids, she may be bonded with the pup enough that she won't fight him to protect the kids. Unless they don't get along, I would be concerned that your pup could teach her bad habits since she's so young herself. 

Unless you can find someone that's willing to loan you a very experienced/dominate LGD that is serious about protecting his charges, it may not be possible for you to turn this puppy into a reliable LGD. I've always had older dogs to line out any bad behavior in new dogs so I don't know how you can correct this on your own. I've never had to do that level of training myself. Heck, my Anatolian taught my blue healer mix that I rescued with just a "look" that goats are not to be chased.

If you want to try to train him on your own, the web site www.luckyhit.net has lots of links to training Anatolians (which should be applicable to Great Pyrenees). I found this site useful when I was doing research. The guy is a long time breeder of Anatolians and has lots of info on his site. Go to the bottom of his Anatolian page for links on training. The first time owner links have lots of good stuff for correcting bad behavior in young dogs.

The good news? Lots of people like Great Pyrenees dogs as pets/family protectors. It shouldn't be too hard to rehome him if you have to. It might be a better fit for him anyway if he's more people oriented. 

If you rehome this pup, I recommend reading the book I mention above before getting another one. I found it invaluable when I got my first puppy and starting him off right. Buying an established adult LGD will be much more expensive than a puppy but it's certainly an option. With an adult, make sure you're getting a guarantee in writing; I wouldn't put it past someone to try to pass off a problem dog as a sure thing. 

Best of luck! And keep us updated.


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