# Boer goat bite



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I have always been confused on this but now after looking at EVERY kid I own and looking up ABGA standards I’m even more confused.
So when I look at their bite I’m looking at if their teeth are lining up to the top gums. None of my kids line up 100%. After looking at ABGA it says the jaws have to line up, here it is word for word

HEAD
A prominent, strong head with brown eyes and a gentle appearance. Nose with a gentle curve, wide nostrils, and well formed mouth with well-opposed jaws. The jaws must have no over or under bite from birth to 24 months of age. After 24 months no more than a 1⁄4 of an inch under bite is allowed. Correct fit is preferred. Teeth should erupt in the proper sequential positions. The forehead should be prominent and form an even curve linking the nose and horns. Horns should be dark, round, strong, of moderate length, positioned well apart and have a gradual backward curve before turning outward symmetrically. Ears should be smooth of medium length and hang downward.
Faults: Concave forehead, straight horns, jaw too pointed, overshot or undershot jaws
Disqualifications: Blue eyes, ears folded lengthwise, short ears, parrot mouth or more than 1⁄4 of an inch under bite.

So am I checking kids wrong by looking at teeth? I’m finding it hard to believe out of 4 buck, and I don’t even know how many unrelated does, none of them are right on the bite, so am I supposed to look at basically the gums lining up?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok, I don't know if I am explaining this well, so maybe someone else can step in. I can not find pictures to show correct bite on line, maybe someone has links or pictures they can share.

You want the teeth to touch the front of the top pad - more or less lay against it. If they don't come out that far, then I believe it's an under bite. If they come out past the pad, and don't touch it, I think that is an over bite. If no one posts pics to show correct bite then tomorrow afternoon when my kids are home I will try to get some to show.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If you are looking at very young kids, you probably do need to wait to check on them.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok that’s what I was thinking. So every kid I have has a slight underbite. They are all just in front of the pad. It’s just baffling that all wouldn’t be correct. 
If you do get a chance and get the pics I would be forever grateful just to make sure I am understanding right.
The kids are 1 1/2 month old would they shift any?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think bone growth is going to play a part. Look how gangly their legs can look as they are growing.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

That makes a lot of sense! And basically ABGA is saying the teeth change since it’s no under or over bite from birth to 24 months but after that a 1/4 underbite is ok. But still as of right this moment it looks like my kids are not correct.
What brought on the question was I had a gal asking about bites on a few kids. I told her the teeth do not align perfect to the gums. But then started thinking maybe I’m checking wrong. But that’s fine if they are really not correct and she wants to pass right now I don’t blame her, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t sending her away for no reason


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I will have my son help me this afternoon after he gets home and get pictures to show you. As long as the tops of the teeth lay over the front of the pad they should be fine. It's hard to explain. But also crazy that with so much info on the internet, that I can't find any photos to show correct bite!
We have one that has an under bite, it's not awful, but keeping an eye on it. The ones we checked the other day were born 1/24-2/19. I normally start checking things out around 4-6 weeks so I can start getting an idea of who is correct, and if I need to watch for changes on anyone, etc.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh please don’t rush or stress about getting the pics. Actually I’ll also go out and get a few pictures.
I googled teeth too and couldn’t find anything either! I was shocked! This has been the first thing I haven’t been able to find lol I found teeth for age, big over and under but no perfect. But I’ll go out since it’s raining and kids are easy to catch and see if I can get some see-able pictures


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well that is NOT as easy as one would think! I also just learned when I hold their head between my legs that messes with the bite too, so holding them between my legs last the shoulders they look much better. I would still say the one she wants is way off but I'll let you just look and tell me






















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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I still wasn't able to get pics, but glad you were able to! The way we hold them definitely can make a difference in how their bite will appear. 
I notice some are putting their tongues out the side, stinkers! So I wonder if that is messing with the way they look. Ideally, IMO, #3 is what you want. You want the teeth to touch the pad that way - no space between teeth & pad. #1 looks very close, and #2 as well, but the teeth on that one look curved outward instead curved toward the pad. 
#4 looks like it might be correct if the kid would keep it's tongue in it's mouth lol!

I agree, the lack of information - pictures - on the internet is crazy! I seriously think associations like the ABGA should include pictures, sketches or some sort of examples to show correct bite! I think they should also include pictures of preferred and acceptable pigment! I want to bring this up on one of the FB groups!

I'm heading outside now, haven't felt well today (allergies). I'll try to get pictures of our kids bites with my phone. We have one that is off, and we even have a doeling with a backwards tooth!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

No it you don’t feel well don’t stress it, that’s why I got pictures so you could tell me on these, I was getting kids that looked different on the bite so you could say”good, close, no good” lol they were all being brats on pictures! Some were biting me and I couldn’t keep their mouth shut lol maybe a boring rainy day wasn’t such a good idea. But I think I’m understanding this more, plus most don’t look near as bad once I held them better! It was #2 that the lady was interested in so I’ll just go with bite is not correct


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Jessica84 said:


> Disqualifications: Blue eyes, ears folded lengthwise, short ears, parrot mouth or more than 1⁄4 of an inch under bite.


I wouldn't consider those bites bad, I'd get a 2nd look at that one before telling the person anything. I quoted the part where it says more than 1/4 of an inch under bite. I should have stated earlier ideally you want it like #3. I think #2 looks fine, so long as those teeth are touching the pad.

I totally understand about it being hard to check them, let alone trying to get pics of the bite! That's probably why there are no pictures on line lol!

I tried to get some of a set of twins and then a little girl with a backwards tooth, quality isn't great as it was getting dark, and my phone camera is lousy.

This one is good, teeth touching the pad, teeth have that upward curve. She is pulling his lower jaw forward just a bit.

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His twin's bite is off, but not as bad as I originally thought, this may correct as he gets older.









This little girl has a backwards tooth! She just turned 4 weeks on Wed. I'm sure it came in sideways and shifted, but never noticed one like this before.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have a doe with the turned tooth! Oh I need to check her and see what it looks like now that she has probably lost it.......hopefully it’s the 2 year old tooth (thinking) I forgot all about it till now lol 
Well she asked about the bite at the time and I told her the tips of the teeth were not touching the gums and she said oh what a bummer so I think she is passing on it.
So basically as long as the teeth are touch, not exactly just the tips of the teeth they are good? Maybe not perfect but considered ok


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Right, that's what I was told and have looked for. I'm sorry the woman will probably pass on the kid. 
I'm curious about your doe with the turned tooth as well, I'd imagine it came in correctly. 
We won't keep this little doe, my kids might show her as a commercial doe project then sell her. Can't keep them all (wish we could, we had 9 does this year - that's huge for us!). She is a runt from a set of triplets.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh it’s fine. He’s a super handsome little guy so I should be able to sell him, and if not oh well.
Her adult tooth probably did come in right. I don’t see why it would be any different then human teeth. My son had a odd tooth, it was 2 teeth that shared the same root and one was sideways and his adult teeth were totally normal. I just forgot all about that doe and her tooth till you showed me your little doe.
I very much understand not keeping them all  it’s always so hard for me not to keep them all every year and I’m trying to drop my numbers by about 10 so that’s going to make it even harder! I actually told my husband I’m going to make him go out and pick 10 Goats and he’s gonna to sell them lol he told me that sounded like a setup for a argument lol my kids are worse then I am on keeping them all so I’ll have to figure something out or just keep the extra 10!


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

Very interesting thread. Thank you for posting and thanks for all the pictures.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Your welcome! It was very interesting and I finally learned about the bit too. Although hoosiershadow totally gets all the credit


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

There are varying degrees of "on" and "off", I've found. The judges will give you a certain amount of "flaring" of the bottom teeth if it looks like the pad is touching at the bottom. I've been to shows where one judge passed my goat and the other one DQd. I have an older doe who's bite is currently way off. She also has 40 show points and passed two inspections when she was younger. I've had a few that were off for awhile as a baby and then came back on. I had one buck who's bite came back on when his permanent teeth came in. The good ones always stay good. They are the ones I like. Every time you open their mouth it's completely obvious they are what I call, "textbook".


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

So would obvious to you be a parrot mouth that you can see before you open the lips and walking around showing off their bottom teeth? Well I mean of course those are total culls but I mean is there a between a slight flare and that degree that you would consider total cull? Hopefully that just made sense lol


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

My old doe with the bad bite is one of my fattest goats, so apparently a goat can do just fine with a bad bite. She has given me six kids. Four had perfect bites, one was borderline and one was bad. I've had worse averages from does with perfect bites. So, what's a cull and what's not is probably a better decision to make for yourself. I just try to be totally honest with buyers about any bite that's questionable and price them accordingly.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok I understand. I wasn’t really going to cull unless a parrot mouth or huge noticeable underbite since I’ve only ever had 2 people concerned about bite. The first one I had her check and see if it was ok for what she was looking for, but I know you show so was wondering how you viewed it. But I totally get what you are saying


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## meganmts (Mar 22, 2017)

Awesome informative post, all the answers I was looking for! Thank you all!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm glad we could discuss this. I really wish ABGA had photos and examples of what is acceptable and what is not, that would really help so much more than a description when it comes to these type of things. 
We had a parrot mouth kid a few years ago, and the kid I posted on the 1st page whose bite is a little bit off. Otherwise, I can't recall having any that I've worried about.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Your right! They pretty much have pictures and examples of everything I don’t know why they didn’t on the bite. Even though so far I’ve only ever had 2 people ask about the bite, and as long as it’s not a parrot on huge under bite I’m not concerned about it, it’s still one of their standards


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Nobody ever asks me about bite on kids when we've sold them, so I've never really talked about bite at all. In fact, it probably wasn't until a few years ago I really even opened the mouth to check the kids bites. usually just anything that was being registered to be shown. But now that we have more registerable than non registerable, I want to make sure I am checking everything and making sure it's acceptable. 
We're going to band the boy with the bite that is off, just because his brother is nicer, and my daughter needs a market wether. I do think his mouth will possibly correct itself, I'll be curious to watch it as he grows this summer.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

The first gal that asked she does show at the two semi close shows here, I don’t know why I didn’t think to ask her about it last year. If it wasn’t for this lady I wouldn’t have even looked in mouths lol I checked the one she wanted and then when I saw it wasn’t totally perfect checked another buck I thought she might like. After that I was just on a mission to see if I had a bunch of cull kids on my hands lol 
Is the one your banding the one that you were asking about the teats?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

No, the one we are banding is the one that has the bite that is slightly off. He's a nice buck kid, but somebody has to be wethered, and we felt it needed to be him. The one that I am watching with the pigment I want to keep intact. I do think he'll get his pigment. In fact I need to check him better this afternoon, I think I saw some more small dark spots starting to appear at the top of his tail.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I just wanted to share something in case someone comes across this and also because there was a few people following it. I had another lady ask about the same buck and wanted to know about bite! Man that guy and his bite lol anyways I said I'll take a picture and you decide! She is good with it, she shows ABGA so I guess she would know, but look how much he has changed! He was #2 on the list of pictures I had and he is just now 2 months old......sorry I didn't even look at the date I started this when doing this reply. Anyways here he is and his bite


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

That's great! Looks like it really corrected itself. We banded our boy with the bite that was off, and I never want to check it again lol! Seriously, he is a good looking boy, looks like a buck, not a wether. It'll break my heart if it corrects itself. But... they can't all be bucks, and somebody needed to be banded so my daughter has a wether. She's not attached to him, so that may help when sale time comes.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol I handed 2 BEAUTIFUL bucks for my kids wethers, one had a tiny little split and I just decided get it gone and I won’t look back so I totally understand! Plus the way I look at it is the kids need wethers, I’m sure your kids are the same, but they work very hard helping with the Goats so they should get good wethers. So even if it did correct itself she still needed a wether.
I really never thought his bite would change that much though, I really am amazed by it!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So glad the bite is on now.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I thought I would update too! 
Remember on page 1 I said we have a doe kid with a backwards tooth? I checked her today to see if her bite was still good otherwise, and make sure teat structure hadn't changed. 

She has 9 front teeth! Another one came up in front of the backwards tooth. How crazy is that?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Whoa! That is crazy! Sometimes you hear about human babies born with teeth and they are removed and their baby teeth come in normally, I wounded if it’s something like that? I’m not sure why it happens with people either though lol is the one loose?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Whoa, never seen that before.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Definitely crazy! I have no clue if I should do anything about it? She eats and grazes just fine, a very sweet, active baby. She's a runt from a set of triplets, but she's really starting to grow now that she is eating more feed & grazing. You can see in some pictures that her lip sort of sits funny now and then because of that front tooth 
I'll try to post a picture of her tomorrow. She's a very nice, solid doe, small but mighty


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure either.

She needs braces, no, just kidding but those are her baby teeth and should fall out and maybe they will come in OK
You will know at 1 year old, I guess.


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