# CLOSE CALL with anaphylactic shock -how to handle next time?



## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have had my goats 4 years, given all my own vaccinations, and never had a problem. I knew about potential allergic reactions to vaccines but never knew of any who have had them and never had them myself. I figured it was one of those things like winning the Powerball or Mega Millions lottery except in a bad way. I figured the odds were so small with never having an issue that I wasn't even worried.

My streak of good luck ended this morning. I was vaccinating and worming several of the goats this morning and was doing it assembly line style. Since they know what is going on, they try to avoid me. I had my girlfriend giving them food as a bait and then I would catch them. Then she handed me the meds, I did my work, and then I moved on to the next goat. The vaccine I was giving is the CL Bacterin for CL/CLA. I had one goat come down with this and I ended up quarantining her and putting her down for rest of the herd. I was careful to keep the grounds clean for the other goats and have not had any others come down with the disease. I have been vaccinating for this as well as CDT and never had any issues.

So, I move onto the next goat and my girlfriend starts commenting that there is something wrong with the goat I just vaccinated. This was within like 30 seconds of her getting the shot. She was kinda shaking her head and began panting and foaming at the mouth. I figured I was dealing with anaphylactic shock and made a few calls. No one was open being a Sunday and all so I came inside and looked online. All the symptoms pointed to this problem and noticed that Benadryl was mentioned as something that might help in certain cases. I took out a pill and since she was now grinding her teeth, she pulverized it and swallowed. I figured this was a good thing as she would get it in a nice strong dosage with it being ground up.

She seemed better within minutes and has shown no more signs of problems since this happened 8 or more hours later last time I checked on her. She was out eating with the rest of the herd.

Having worked with forensic engineering, I know that close calls are something to learn from and not ignore! You always ask, why did this happen and how to change things so it won't happen again?

I know I should get an epipen for this in the future. Where do you get them? How much do they cost? How long do they last before expiring? The vaccine was right at its expiration which I understand can cause issues but why did only ONE goat have this? It had also been poked 14 days ago for some other goats but this was her first treatment of the year. I am not sure I gave her any last year as she was a kid and recently had her first kid.

Should I ever give her this or any other vaccine again? She did struggle and I wonder if her twisting caused me to hit an artery and go straight into her bloodstream. Will having one reaction like this make her more likely to have similar problems in the future?

This vial of vaccine is used up so the follow up shots will require a new bottle.

Any comments on how to handle this before it becomes a problem next time would be greatly appreciated. What went wrong and are there any obvious mistakes besides not having an epipen?

Conor


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

Giving Benadryl was a great call. Glad it worked out for you. If you give the goat the same vaccine again, it's possible the reaction could be more severe..

When I had a dog have an allergic reaction to a combo vaccine, the vet gave her Benadryl _before_ her next vaccination and gave it some time to get into her system before giving her the shot. They were able to leave out the suspect ingredient as well.

When I gave a kid a vaccine for the first time, I did the same thing. Unfortunately, I read that when a reaction occurs, it is usually to a vaccine that has been given before without incident because the animal has developed a sensitivity to it.

You can get epinephrin (in a vial) by prescription to have on hand. It's inexpensive. Now I have a syringe loaded with a dose of epinephrin all ready to go when giving vaccinations because otherwise if there IS a reaction it may take too long to get it into the goat. With a lot of goats, you may want to have several syringes ready to go.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=27a43c2c-2282-47a9-a24d-f7696b019e96

I think it's only good for about a year.

Good luck.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, good to know. I will definitely give her a Benadryl before hand next time and have an epipen on hand. Also, what is a safe dose of Benadryl? I read the human doses per weight were suggested. She is probably about 100 lbs and will get an accurate weight before the next shot is given.

I guess I will call my vet about the epipen.

Conor


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Also, what are they allergic to? Is it the carrier or the vaccine itself? Also, if a goat has a problem with one vaccine, does that mean it might have issues with another? I was planning another round of vaccines soon for CDT. Is there a time period you should generally wait between vaccines with normal goats? How long should you wait with one that had a reaction?

Conor


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Good call on Benedryl...

you can get an epi pen, epinephrine or draw up a large dose of liquid benedryl to have ready how ever I would not vaccinate her again with this drug..as stated the reaction next time could be more deadly...I don't think I would risk it..if you do feel strongly enough she needs it..then do spend three days preparing her...benedryl daily for three days or more...then a large dose right after the shot...don't even wait for her to react...just give it..or the epi...

CD&T is given once a year unless its new to them then boosters are in 21-30 days...if your goat did not react to it, then it should be fine to give her a booster if its needed..
it should also be ok to give both the CD&T and CL...not sure if its the carrier that had her react or not...it is a very good possibility...they also now have a combo vaccine with CD&T and CL all together...however she may still react to this...
http://www.colorado-serum.com/csc/caseous_dt.html


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I know CDT is only a once per year deal. I was worried that there might be some type of interaction with this if I gave it say tomorrow. I figure I might wait a while before I give ANY more vaccinations. I am now worried that vaccinations in general might set her off. I would assume they use common carriers and such. I will say that the CL Bacterin stuff is thick like Elmer's Glue and I went up a diameter in the needle gauge so I could inject it.

I will make sure to have benadryl in her system before any other shots and have epi on hand too.

I just thought it was a good idea for the CL shot since I had one get it in the past (I suspect she was infected before I got her) and figured it was a good idea to vaccinate all in the herd.

How quick does it typically take for the reaction to start? It seemed like 30 seconds or a minute in my case.

I am going to get an accurate weight on her but would expect her to be right around 100 lbs. Is there a safe Benadryl dose for this size goat? I will plan to have more than the minimum in her system to prevent such a reaction. I figure 2x would be fine but want a definite answer. I am not going to do any more vaccinations until I feel confident I can handle another reaction but definitely think vaccinations are a good idea for the goats.

Conor


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

reaction is quick...less then a minute..however I have heard of cases where they reacted a few hours after..although rare...

I understand your desire to vaccinate..we all must make those decision for our herd..there is no right or wrong here... many have decided to give the vaccine due to the same reasons...giving their system a break is a good idea..

benedryl dose is 15-20 CC for adults...


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, the quick reaction is normal then.

I gave her a Benadryl tablet of 25mg as this is what I had on hand. I could have given her 1.5 or 2 tablets if needed. She was grinding her teeth hard and pulverized it so am sure that helped get it in her system quicker. Do you give the liquid form orally or injected? I assume orally. How many mg per ml? Can someone post a link of the exact benadryl product so I can get the correct one? I see multiple liquid forms for children and some have an additional active ingredient that might or might not be a good thing for goats. I usually buy the store brand if it is available. Also, how about the gel caps? That would get into their system quicker.

Conor


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I give the liquid orally...I usually get this one....my goats like the cherry  
http://www.empr.com/benadryl-allergy-liquid/drug/8/
MG to ML is 1:0.001


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I use the 25 mg quick dissolve papers, and a 100 lb goat can have up to 4 if needed. Good luck getting Epi  I can't even get it for me.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

Ok, so up to 4x standard tablets or liquid equivalent is OK. Why is epi so hard to get? I am not an expert but know people get these for bee stings and such. I am going to get an accurate weight but maybe 100mg of Benadryl is the better option if my 100 lbs estimate is correct.

Sounds like 1mg per lb is the dose.

Conor


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Epi is RX as well as the epinephrine...



> I use the 25 mg quick dissolve papers


I haven't seen these...going to need to look..


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

I have two doses reserved at the vet. I guess they come in sealed single use syringes.

Conor


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## gonegoaty (May 15, 2015)

How scary. I'm glad I keep benedryl on hand, but I'll have to remember goats can have it too if one has a reaction. If it were one of my goats, I don't think I'd vaccinate that one again, but keep the rest of the herd vaccinated. She should benefit from the herd immunity.


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## Anne2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Glad I read this...so good to know. I also can't get an epi vet won't give them out.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I got a vial of epi from my vet, have never had to use it. (knock on wood and toss salt over my shoulder)

I also have an Epi pen for myself (or the goats/dogs/ horses). Those are expensive....$250.00 at the pharmacy.

The only problem with benedryl, is in a severe allergic reaction, benedryl will not help, it needs to be epi.


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## cwatkin (Jul 9, 2012)

*Vet has 2 doses for me*

The vet has two doses of this set aside for me.

Why is it so hard to get? Is it something people can abuse?

Anyway, I am going to try another vaccination on the problem goat but will give her 2x Benadryl tabs first and have the epi ready and waiting just in case. If she doesn't do well again, I won't ever vaccinate her again.

Conor


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

I don't know about now, but when I first tried to get it, there was a shortage. Vets were having a hard time getting it too.


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## nubeegirl59 (Feb 27, 2014)

My Dr prescribed an Epi pen for me. If I need to use it on a goat I couldn't control the amount. Would it be Ok for a kid or should it only be used on an adult goat? Can you over dose with an Epi pen?


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