# Critiques On This Alpine Doe For Sale



## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm wondering if this purebred Alpine doe is worth buying. 
Catydid produces 1.5 gallons of milk a day.
The whole herd is tested negative for CAE, Johnes, Qfever, CL, Bangs, and Toxoplasmosis.
I'm not familiar with Alpines from Provider Goats, so I would appreciate any critiques on this doe's confo and udder.

Is she worth buying? They are selling her for $300 firm. And she has been bred (to their buck I'm guessing). Her doe they kept is Cherry Blossom on their website.

Provider Goats CS Catydid:

http://cobcottage.webs.com/cobcottagedoes.htm

More pics of Catydid:

http://cobcottage.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=9667545

More pics of Cherry Blossom:

http://cobcottage.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=10750080

Their buck:

http://cobcottage.webs.com/cobcottagebucks.htm


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

First question. How old is she?

Second question. Why would you sell the highest producing doe on your farm? That's pretty much the opposite of how I would do things.

I'm not a qualified expert, but by that pic, that udder could hold a lot of milk.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

It depends what your looking for...when I look at her I feel like she is not a goat I would buy if looking for good show quality stock...but 
I'm sure she would make a nice pet


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

She does have a decent udder to if your just looking at milk production!


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

goatnutty said:


> She does have a decent udder to if your just looking at milk production!


Pretty much agree. From the pictures, she just doesn't look like a robust animal. She's not as fancy as the doelings you raised IMO. But if she can milk that much, that does get my attention. I'm in the camp that a milk goat should make a lot of milk.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

I emailed the owner and this is what she said about her:
"She has a good rear attachment in our opinion but weaker front attachment. Good expression, but not the best. Nice sized teats, but on the large diameter side when completely full making them a bit hard for my daughter(9) to milk. I think the body conformation is good and level, symmetrical, and not too steep of a slope on her rump."

She also said she was rebred to a buck out of Hull's dairy. (I'm thinking it's their buck, Hull's Sierra Jasper, since he's from Hull's up in Dallas.)

Her kidding history is :
Single, buck
Twins, one doe and one buck
Single, buck.

She explained to me that they were trying to do a grass-based farm until this year, as in grass based with organic alfalfa bought from the local feed mill. This year they bought oats to supplement the organic alfalfa hay. 
She said that this is probably why Catydid had so many singles. 
She also said, however, this year before breeding they did give her more oats and hay in hopes to have twins.

Here is a link to her pedigree:
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001464512

According to her pedigree, she is about 3 years.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Yeah, we aren't looking for good show quality stock, but we don't want to buy any goats with steep rears or horrible udders either.
We aren't planning on showing, so we don't have to buy show quality goats.
I guess, we are looking for nice goats with nice udders, that will have no problems in milk production or kidding.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is another pic.
Catydid is on the far right, and her daughter is on the far left. That is her daughter's FF.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Personally I like her a lot. She may look a little unthrifty because of her diet but that is fixable. She looks very dairy to me. I think she looks like a lovely large doe with a nice long body and a nice level topline and rump. She looks wide and has nice straight legs. In the one picture on the site she looks a little weak in the brisket area. Her rear udder attachments are great, however if she has poor front attachments then I feel her udder won't hold up over the years with being a heavy producer. But a small pocket is not a big deal. I think that if she were bred to the right buck these things could be fixed in her daughters. Her daughter does have a nice udder and nice straight legs. The buck that she is bred to looks to have nice bloodlines. He has a really nice dam and Hulls has some great stock. I would buy her if I wanted milk and to get the lines that she will carry from the bucks side.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Oh, great pic of the 3 together. I also wanted to mention that the dam of the buck she is bred to is stunning. She looks like she has a super front udder attachment. Good luck on your decision.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

She's got a beautiful udder! I would buy her


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I think she is a pretty doe - every goat is going to have needs for improvement. If she comes bred for 300 thats not a bad deal


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

Listening to what your looking for, I would go for it!


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## xymenah (Jul 1, 2011)

I agree go for it.


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

I would buy her. I don't think the pictures do her justice. She looks like she just needs some good feed to bulk her up a bit! If you listen to the girls here at the goat spot, she will look like a champ in no time!


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Ok, so Catydid's owner explained to me that the main reasons she is selling Catydid is because her 9 year old daughter milks their goats, and it's hard for her to milk Catydid because of her large teats. And because they are trying to weed down their goats.

She is also going to be selling Hull's Sierra's Jasper, the buck bred to Catydid, for $200. She confirmed that she did breed Jasper to Catydid, and she hasn't come back into heat since.

Is it worth buying the buck also?

We'll be buying a buck anyways. I don't know how Hull's lines are.
She bought him from Hull's dairy in Dallas area.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Do you have a link to his pedigree?? I saw his pic on the site but the link to his pedigree didn't work. I like his dam a LOT!!


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Here's the link to Jasper's pedigree:
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=A001529634

And here are recent pics of Catydid. Can anyone notice how her front udder is?:




























And a recent pic of Jasper:










Some older pics of Jasper:


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## SkyesRanch (Nov 11, 2010)

I would buy the buck for $200...... WHY???

Because...

*Look at his dam - http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/johari.html
* Dam's dam and some of his maternal half sisters http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/josephina.html
* And the fact that buck kids from Johari, his dam, go today for $1000. See for your self on the Hull's kidding schedule... http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/breeding.html

If you don't buy him, I will. lol :ROFL:


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

SkyesRanch said:


> I would buy the buck for $200...... WHY???
> Because...
> *Look at his dam - http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/johari.html
> * Dam's dam and some of his maternal half sisters http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/josephina.html
> ...


Ha ha. Love it.


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## JessaLynn (Aug 30, 2009)

OMGoodness...heck ya!!! :shocked: Go for it! What a steal!! Wait no don't buy him.... I'm headed to Texas baby!! jk I wish :laugh:


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## Hidden Waters Farm (Oct 3, 2010)

Without looking at his pedigree, I like on looks alone! I actually like his looks better than the does lol. Even if you don't purchase the doe, I'd get the buck if I were you.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

You asked about the does forudder and it see that it needs a bit longer of a forudder. 

Large teats aren't a bad thing!


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Looks like I better make a decision before you all steal him from me!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Yep, I think this guy will go fast.......I would buy him in a heartbeat. 

I agree with Stacey that Catydid's fore udder needs a bit longer attachment. I think overall though she is a really nice doe. It looks like the buck's dam and other ancestors have nice fore udders so he should really improve on that in his daughters.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Did you buy the buck yet?? Hope so, I would hate to miss out on getting a buck of this quality for that price. Did she say why she is selling him and at that price. Just look at his sires dam, she is stunning!! http://home.mesh.net/hull/does1/sierra.html


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## K-Ro (Oct 14, 2007)

We started our herd with Provider Goats and we have no regrets what so ever.

Out of all my girls from Ann (she is the owner of Provider Goats) everyone of them are heavy milkers and almost everyone of them has good confirmation. 

We just brought home 2 of Catydid's half sisters last month, they are just now bred so I won't have any idea how the milk until next year, but I have no doubts as to what they are capable of producing, especially with the right feed.

I'd say go for it.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes, we decided we are going to buy Catydid and Jasper. YAY! 
We will be going tomorrow to pick her up.
And then we will discuss when we can pick up Jasper after his leasing is over. He is leased out right now until December 1, it's a closed herd.

The owner said that her daughter's passion is helping to care for the goats, and right now they have too many goats. So she decided to sell the goats she thinks will sell right away.

Can't wait till tomorrow!

Oh, and since Catydid is pregnant and trying to dry up, do I need to be increasing her feed or anything to help her gain some weight? Or just wait till it's 50 days till kidding.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

:leap: :leap: :leap: Congratulations. I think you made a good choice and will be very pleased with the goats. I have a girl with Sierra in the background and am pretty excited to see how she freshens. 

I can't remember if you had mentioned when was the last time she was wormed?? She could be thin from that too if she has not been wormed. During the first 2/3 of a does pregnancy she should be fed at a maintenance level or if really thin up her feed a little to improve her condition. But you don't want her to get fat either, as this can cause problems in late pregnancy.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I feed the most grain in the middle of pregnancy and less at teh beginning and end. 

if she is trying to dry up I wouldnt feed any grain just give her some good quality hay and minerals.


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

They didn't say the last time they dewormed her, they have been using herbal dewormer.
I just ordered some herbal dewormer from Hoeggers.

How often should I deworm them? The bag says weekly for the Hoeggers herbal dewormer. But that sounds too often, especially if the goats don't need it...
I don't want the little "bugs" getting used to it.

Also, what colors would you say Catydid and Jasper are? As in what would you describe their colors and markings for papers?
Just curious.
And are any of their colors or markings dominant or recessive? I think black is recessive and white markings are dominant, am I right?
Just trying to guess what Catydid's and Jasper's kids will look like.

Anyone want to guess?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

herbal wormers work by creating a body condition that the worms dont like so they dont stay - so you have to keep feeding it so their body has that same condition continually. ITs not like a conventional wormer that that actually kills the worms.


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## Dreamchaser (Oct 30, 2008)

With alpines, you could get any mix of colors! But I do see some broken white on both of them, so you might gt some broken white on the bellies of the babies. I bred a broken cou clair goat to a regular cou clair, and I got one regular cou clair and a sundgau (sp?) and none had broken white. I had hoped for broken white on them, but no dice.

Congrats, they look like a great pair of goats!


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Jasper is a broken chamoisee. I would call Caydid a chamoisee also although she is light, chamosiee is a shade of brown. I have seen other alpines on sites similar in color that were called chamoisee and they didn't have the typical black markings. Catydid does have some black on her legs and a faint black dorsal stripe. It can get confusing with alpine colors and there can be such a variation. That is part of the fun of having alpines. You never know what you will get at kidding time. I do think that chamoisee is dominant. My breeder has a lot of chamoisee goats in her herd.


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

Here is a link to a goat that looks very similar to Catydid in coloring and markings called a chamoisee.

http://www.walnutforkalpines.com/anarchis.html


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## mistydaiz (Jan 28, 2011)

Hmm, I thought the chamoise color had a black belly...

http://www.debpnigerians.com/goatcolorprimer.htm

I was reading through the different markings and I saw the Bezoar color (scroll down to Bezoar, fifth goat down) : http://www.goatspots.com/genetics.html

Here's where that color comes from, the Bezoar Ibex:










That ibex looks just like Jasper! Except without the little broken belt marking.
Anyone thinks so?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

that second link doesnt even have a specific chamoisee "option" 

but that said they dont have a buckskin either but we know the San Clemente is the buckskin pattern 

each breed of goats has their own set of naming color rules - very annoying


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## peggy (Aug 11, 2010)

What a great set of horns, wow!! His coloring really does look like Jasper. Here is another link with a buck that looks just like Jasper. Exact same color except for the broken white.

http://www.missouridairygoats.com/alpinegoatsforsale.htm

I agree with Stacey, that it is confusing to figure out the colors at times. I have seen lots of goats on sites that were called chamoisee that didn't have the black belly.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

just because someone calls their goat a certain color pattern doesnt mean thats what they are


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## francismilker (Oct 22, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> just because someone calls their goat a certain color pattern doesnt mean thats what they are


Amen to that! I've got a chamoise alpine that's no where close to being one. I wonder if someday the ADGA will require pics along with registration like the horse people do?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

and names for patterns are different in breeds. Like a cou clair to a nigerian dwarf breeder is a two tone chamoisee for an alpine :doh:


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would call Catydid a saffron myself.


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## thomaskids (Jan 12, 2011)

Her udder looks nice could use more MSL. Need some improvement with the body. Looks loose in the shoulders and not great general appearance. However if you are not looking to show then I think she would fit the bill. :hi5:


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## RMADairyGoats (Jun 20, 2011)

StaceyRoop said:


> and names for patterns are different in breeds. Like a cou clair to a nigerian dwarf breeder is a two tone chamoisee for an alpine :doh:


I have seem some people call a two tone chamoisee Alpine (would be a cou if it were a Nigie) a cou clair or blanc. I guess some people call them different things. :shrug:



StaceyRoop said:


> just because someone calls their goat a certain color pattern doesnt mean thats what they are


So true!!!! I have seen some folks call a buckskin with a little white a tri color. :roll: I have also seen a really light buckskin be called a chesnut. :laugh:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Heh its worse with anglo nubians here in australia. There arent really any accepted terms fpr colour patterns so you pretty much just make it up. I think one of my girls is down as 'silver roan with mottles black brown tan and white'


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