# Boer Goat Feeding Question



## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Hi, I am new of the forum and raise Boer goats. I need some advice on what and how much to properly feed them, since I am very concerned about urinary calculi in my buck and other health issues due to improper Ca: P ratio. Since I am from Europe, I will list the food that I can get.

My goats are at least 200days per year outside in pasture. They are a bit more thin then I want, since they move a lot, but I bring them oats/pellets 1x per day. These are not show goats, we don`t have shows in our country, but I would still like them to have that "massive" look. Not fat, but strong. All are fullblood, with pedigrees and some very good german bloodlines.

I can buy barley and corn. I prefer barley since it`s not so "hard" for their teeth, kids love it too, has a bit more protein and it`s cheaper. I did some research and found that barley has 13% protein and Ca: P ration 1:8. If someone has another data please let me know.

Unfortunately alfalfa hay is not very common here, so I was thinking to add some pellet food rich in proteins but with a good Ca: P ration.

I have a pellet food called *OVI*. Contains:
-16% protein
- Ca 1,2%
- P 0,55%

Pellet food called *GOLD*:
- 18% protein
- Ca 1%
- P 0,45%
Contains some herbal extracts that diminish coccidiosis diseases. Says it`s for kids from 1-7 weeks

I have also a pellet food named *EKO*. It is used for leveling feeding meals poor in proteins. Made of soybean, sunflower and alfalfa. 
- 33% protein 
- Ca 2,6%
- P 1,4%

All my goats receive vitamins and minerals too. I would prefer that my food source is barley, since I also sell the kids for meet, and want them to taste good.

- What mix would be best for my bucks and what for does? How much to feed them daily?
- What mix and how much would be best for does when flushing?

Thank you
_ps: added an image of my goats around the new hay feeder made for colder months _


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Anyone can give me some suggestions? Thank you


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You would need to add a lot of calcium if you fed barley. The goats total diet should be a minimum of 2:1 calcium to phosphorus. The 33% feed is for mixing. That is way too high in protein. The other 2 are ok.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I read that people feed Champion Drive and Fitter 35, that have around the same % of protein, for show goats.

I know I need to add calcium, but how/what form? a mineral mix? Goats are on pasture, there they get some calcium. Is not enough to balance the does diet?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Alfalfa (hay or pellets) is a good source of calcium. Pasture is generally between 1:1 and 2:1 Ca : Ph, so it needs balancing out as well.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I don't have alfalfa hay or just alfalfa pelets unfortunately. Any other options?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes the 33% is too high.
Unless it is ground and in very small amounts, corn is highly undigestable.
We have never had UC here in our Boers and they have free choice alfalfa year round.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What other grasses and legumes in the form of hay or pellets do you have?


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I have the usual grass mix hay (clover, dandelion) and also a lot of hazel trees, my goats love those leafs... I searched a bit more and found a provider of alfalfa pellets from another country that could ship here. Details:

Proteins - 15,7%,
Fibers - 24,8%,
Ca- 1%,
P - 0,39%

What do you think, it`s good quality? Shouldn`t there be more Calcium?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

That's a 2.5:1 ratio of calcium and phosphorous, so it should be good.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Ok thank you


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Got today the alfalfa pellets  But my goats don`t like them...it will take some time for them to get used to. I have an adult boer buck of 1,5 year. Since I feed them gain too, I would like to be on the safe side to prevent UC. Where do you buy Ammonia Chloride, to the vet? Would Apple Cinder Vinegar work the same way? I can get this in any store.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can order ammonium chloride online. While ACV can help, it doesn't replace AC.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

I am a bit afraid it will not get to my country, if I order from US. Do they sell it on Amazon maybe? So I can look on Amazon UK or Germany. Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think they do.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yes, they do. That's where I got mine.


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## Boer86 (Jun 8, 2016)

I wouldn't over stress the UC with the buck. Looks like you have a green pasture and try to feed more forage then grain when possible. Tree trimmings are also great to feed maybe drop some large branches off those trees once a week to let them supplement with those. As for calcium a good mineral can help with that as well. Give it free choice all year in a protected feeder. Try to find a good cattle mineral if goat mineral is hard to find. You want good levels of copper in the mineral. I don't feed my goats any grain anymore I have boers and feed grass hay and tree trimmings daily only when I am not around to let them on pasture.


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## Boer86 (Jun 8, 2016)

Sorry I didn't see you already use minerals. Also with that high protein feed it won't hurt them but they can't utilize it all so you are better off mixing it then feeding it straight as already suggested


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Boer86 said:


> Sorry I didn't see you already use minerals. Also with that high protein feed it won't hurt them but they can't utilize it all so you are better off mixing it then feeding it straight as already suggested


Thank you. I gave them at each meal a spoon (25g = 0,06lbs) of these minerals. (I am following the instructions of the package). I am not giving them free choice as I would never know if they take it or not. Even now they don`t eat/lick everything but at least is somehting..... Putting minerals in the water wouldn`t work neither as I have automatic water waterer that doses the amount they need, so they always have fresh water.

Here is what the mix contains:
Calcium, g = 160
Phosphorus, g = 80
Magnesium, g = 16
Sodium, g = 19.6
Manganese, mg = 4,000
Zinc, mg = 2.500
Baker, mg = 400
Cobalt, mg = 40
Selenium mg = 10
Iodine, mg = 35
Molybdenum, mg = 0
Sulfur, mg = 0
Iron, mg = 3,000
Vitamin A, IE = 400,000
Vitamin D3, IE = 10,000
Vitamin E, mg = 500
Vitamin K3, mg = 80
Vitamin B1, mg = 50
Nikot. Acid, mg = 1,000
Ca pentotenate, mg = 400
Vitamin B1, mg = 0
Vitamin B2, mg = 0
Vitamin B6, mg = 100
Vitamin B12, mg = 400
Choline chloride mg = 20
Chestnut tannins, mg = 0


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

5 things.
1. I don't see ANY copper?
2. The selenium seems low.
3. What is Baker?
4. What is Nikot. Acid?
5. What form are the minerals in? If they are oxides, they are not very bioavailable. Here in the States, you find this info in the list of ingredients, which is different from the Guaranteed Analysis.

Do you have access to alfalfa seeds? If so, you could sprinkle them in your pasture and let that be part of their every day grazing. (Eventually)


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> 5 things.
> 1. I don't see ANY copper?
> 2. The selenium seems low.
> 3. What is Baker?
> ...


Baker is cooper. Selenium is maybe low for your country/zone. I am not sure if it`s low for my goats...do you understand what I mean.
I don`t know what is Nikot.Acit.
I saw just 1 or 2 mentions of oxides on the stamp, probably they are ok. Minerals look like a powder/small parts, goats like to lick it.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Oh and yes I have alfaalfa seeds available, I planned to put them some on my pastures, but I also red that fresh alfalfa is not very good for goats?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

MontanaBoers said:


> Baker is cooper.
> 
> Oh, that is interesting.
> 
> ...


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

MontanaBoers said:


> Oh and yes I have alfaalfa seeds available, I planned to put them some on my pastures, but I also red that fresh alfalfa is not very good for goats?


Hmm... Well, I don't know that I would put them in a pasture that was a pure stand of alfalfa and nothing else. But my goats don't come to harm running across patches of it during the course of a day's browsing.

But my goats have a lot of variety in vegetation through most of the year, so they are used to eating some of this and some of that and moving on. You'll make the right decision for your farm.


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## capracreek (Apr 5, 2016)

Have you wormed them. This is an important part to keep them in good weight. Just a thought.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Excellent point. MontanaBoers did not tell us where in Europe he/she is. Just like in the US, some parts of Europe are going to be more difficult for a desert/savannah animal (such as a boer) than other parts are. Thanks capracreek for bringing that up.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

capracreek said:


> Have you wormed them. This is an important part to keep them in good weight. Just a thought.


Of course. Once a year they get a special shot more powerful from the vet, and every 3-4 months I worm them with Monil.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Excellent point. MontanaBoers did not tell us where in Europe he/she is. Just like in the US, some parts of Europe are going to be more difficult for a desert/savannah animal (such as a boer) than other parts are. Thanks capracreek for bringing that up.


I am from Slovenia, central Europe. Climate here is nice for Boers, hot, but not too much, and winters are also not extremely cold. I have snow maybe 3-4x per winter.


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## Boer86 (Jun 8, 2016)

I would recommend leaving the mineral free choice. The salt is what they are after and the mineral is formulated so they won't over consume since the animals self regulate their salt intake. 

When you mix with the feed you could be over or under supplementing


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Boer86 said:


> I would recommend leaving the mineral free choice. The salt is what they are after and the mineral is formulated so they won't over consume since the animals self regulate their salt intake.
> 
> When you mix with the feed you could be over or under supplementing


I am happy this works for you but I am afraid that 1. they will overdose the minerals or 2. they will not even eat it. We have a salt stone they can lick if they want, but I can`t let them overdose cooper or selenium... I just want to be sure they get each day the amount needed.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

They eat what they need. If they need it they'll eat it, if they don't they won't. Free choice is best.


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## MontanaBoers (Jul 27, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> They eat what they need. If they need it they'll eat it, if they don't they won't. Free choice is best.


Thanks for all your suggestions, in case I will need any help regarding minerals, I will ask in an appropriate topic.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

MontanaBoers said:


> I am very concerned about urinary calculi in my buck and other health issues due to improper Ca: P ratio.





MontanaBoers said:


> in case I will need any help regarding minerals, I will ask in an appropriate topic.


We thought help with minerals is why you were writing. ???

Minerals is why alfalfa is so used and recommended.

They won't OD on free choice minerals. I do hear that is something you are afraid of, but it is a baseless fear. No goat has ever ODd on free choice minerals, ever, anywhere. Goats in your lovely country of Slovenia are not different than goats in the lovely countries of the US, Canada, Australia, Kenya, UK, Germany, South Africa, China...

You have every right to not give free choice and continue to judge for yourself how much each one of your goats needs that day. This is an ever-changing set of numbers.

If you have further questions, we'll be happy to try to help. But please understand our confusion.


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