# Tiny Toggenburg



## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

I purchased twin Toggenburg crosses at twelve weeks (late 2015). We named them Chocolate and Caramel. I was told they was a feral cross (father unknown), the farm was steep hillside and Kiko roam freely. Both girls have the Kiko half droopy ears. I had assumed they were Kiko/Togs. Chocolate is currently due to kid, she isn't a big goat so we bred her with a small Sable. 

Caramel however is tiny, (not tiny by mini norms but tiny for a Tog) her back comes to my mid tight (I am only 5'2")
First question: how do I measure her to get an accurate height?
Second (and third) question: I want her bred but even the small sable seems way too big, should I look for a mini breed stud? If so, any breed recommendations?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Height, age and weight would help us.


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

That was my first question: Where/how does one measure the height of a goat? Hoof to shoulder? Hoof to crown? Rear hoof to rump?
She is 2years (four teeth) purchased as a doeling in late 2015.
Weight: no clue, and device to find out, I can pick her up easy enough


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

You should measure her from hoof to withers (shoulders).


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

You could try using a weight tape. I've never been able to get accurate weights with those though.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

If she is small, but in overall good condition and is healthy, I'd personally be inclined to breed her to a mini breed. What mini breeds do you have access to?


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

I measured her at 61cm so I guess that is 2 foot in imperial. yes google tells me 24 inches.

No access, I will have to find a farmer with an appropriately sized buck. Mostly about here we have Boers and Sanaans- so they will be all no-goes I am guessing. Maybe I should look for an Angorra.

Lol, I don't even know what a weight tape is! I am going to guess she is fifteen kg max, the sacks of feed are 25kg and she is much lighter


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

If she's that small (33 +/- pounds?!) something is very wrong with her. Do you have pictures?


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

gosh, that is a bit dramatic! Perhaps i am stronger than i thought, and maybe she weighs more than that (i am pretty sure she is less than 25 kg though). After two years i feel if she had any serious health flaws they would have come to light by now. And I work very closely with a goat dairy farmer, i imagine she would have raised any issues if she had felt there were any.

Please see photos are requested


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

In the second photo you can see Caramel has a much shorter head/face profile and her twin Chocolate. I feel Chocolate has a far more Tog look (though smaller and if you excuse the half droop ears). But Caramel while painted like a Tog really doesn't


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

She doesn't look too thin to me... just small. I'd definitely weigh her if possible. 
The reason I said that is because my Mini-Lamancha, at 4-5 months old, weighed 35 pounds!


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

How tall is your mini-lamancha, Goat_Scout?


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

I don't know how tall she was then, but I just measured her today and she is 23 inches tall at the withers, and 85-90 pounds. She is 20 months old right now and is due to kid for the first time early to mid January, so she's a little heavier than usual.


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

Caramel is a fine featured goat, but never looked skinny and always been happy and healthy. She certainly has energy to spare as she is a jumper and climber, loves being naughty, she is the ringleader of the two of them


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Okay for a weight tape just use a regular tape mesure and mesure around her heart girth (just behind front legs) Here is a chart to convert inches to pounds 
http://northwestpackgoats.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=6&zenid=udgb96uf44rc4nkdijph2hkv51


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

If you can hold her, you could try using the bathroom scale method.


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

I am a hippy, i have no use for the likes of bathroom scales 
i will try that weight tape idea.


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

27.5 inches = 66+ lb. Thats about 30kg, turns out i am WAY stronger than i thought! i am choosing to assume she is a bit lighter than that and say 25 to 30kg.

So she is a doe at 24inchs, 66ish lb and two years old- should I look for a mini breed buck? or do you think a smaller standard breed boy will be okay?


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

I would go for a mini buck Nigerian or Pygmy


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

Oh wow, that is much, much better!! I would breed her to a mini buck if you can find one. Are there Nigerian Dwarves where you live?


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

Found a MiniTog/Rawhiti buck to put over Caramel. So now she just has to come into season....


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

What is a Rawhiti goat


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

A New Zealand feral goat breed. They are a small breed.


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Like Nigerian small or larger?


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

I am not familiar with Nigerian beyond knowing they are a mini breed


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## goat girls (Dec 13, 2017)

Nigerians are about 19 to 23 inches tall


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

Lifted from the New Zealand Dairy Goat Breeds website: Nigerian Dwarf goats( a miniature dairy breed) have recently been imported into New Zealand. However there are no 'miniature' breeds or miniature breed standard recognised in NZ by the NZ Dairy Goat Breeders Association. There are also 2 small NZ feral breeds - the Arapawa Island Goat or the Rawhiti Goat. Some of them can be quite small, but there is no guarantee that subsequent generations will remain small. Neither breed is as small as the Nigerian Dwarf and the African Pygmy Goat breeds.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Good luck with the breeding! They are very pretty gals.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Vanaheimr said:


> Found a MiniTog/Rawhiti buck to put over Caramel. So now she just has to come into season....


Any photos of the buck?


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## Vanaheimr (Dec 3, 2017)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Any photos of the buck?


No, sorry.


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