# Goats and Cows



## Kris Barr (Oct 17, 2017)

Need Help.

I just bought 2 mini steers and have them in the pasture with my goats and donkey. The donkey is to protect the rest of my farm animals. I was told to feed my cows Purina wind & rain with fly control and well and the Purina Accuration. Both are with limiters so the cows don't eat too much. One is a protein tub the other is a mineral tub. I will be milking my goats in the spring when they are grown. 

Well goats being goats and well my donkey they are eating it too. They get their own feed and have the pasture and hay.

My question is as I am impatiently waiting on Purina to call me back is will these harm the goats and donkey. Do any of you keep both goats and cows? 

Any answers welcome and if it does cause harm how long do I have before it does. My back pasture isn't quite ready to move the cows.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do they have urea in them?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I've never tried anything with fly control on the goats. I never could find where anyone did try it so just played it safe and stayed away. You can get normal wind and rain minerals and that will be fine for the goats. I used it for years till my tractor supply stopped carrying it :/ for the flies you can try those, I'm not sure what they are called but have seen them at TSC and they are basically this giant thing that looks like a big stuffed sock and your supposed to hang it on either end where the cows walk and it will rub on their back and leave fly repellent on them. If the steers are tall enough that you can hang it so the goats don't mess with it there is that. There is also simple sprays that you can use if that's a no go.
I also agree on the no urea. Goats and urea are not friends! I learned that one the hard way. If that specific tub has it shop around and find one that doesn't have it. Be warned that if you have good pasture they probably won't even eat much of it. I keep a protein tub out for the goats all year long and they will pick and choose when to eat it but mine when they are let out will go for the brush not the grass. The cows we don't even bother putting out an supplements till the grass is brown because the green grass is full of protein. So it will just sit there and turn into a hard and yuck.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

According to the Q & A section, these do not have urea. The first one is not the fly control

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-wind-and-rain-mineral-tub-125-lb?cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mineral-tub-with-fly-control?cm_vc=-10005


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

These 2 do have Urea

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-rangeland-30-13-tub-125-lb?cm_vc=-10005

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-30-protein-hi-energy-cattle-tub-60-lb?cm_vc=-10005


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ahhh I missed how both are tubs. There is purina wind and rain in a bag and it is just straight loose minerals. If they still had them at my TS I would still be using them I liked those minerals that much and I know is totally ok for goats. My TS doesn't carry any of the tubs listed above but there is a general purpose protein tub and that is safe for goats, that's what mine carries but it's only 16% not 20-30 like most cattle tubs are. But I've bought it for down on their luck cattle before and they did well on it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I was only looking at the urea issue. I don't know any loose minerals with urea?

My TSC has wind and rain loose minerals, but not the fly ones. Can your TSC get them shipped to your store?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

mariarose said:


> I was only looking at the urea issue. I don't know any loose minerals with urea?
> 
> My TSC has wind and rain loose minerals, but not the fly ones. Can your TSC get them shipped to your store?


They said one was a protein tub the other was a mineral tub but I didn't catch that till you posted all the tubs and I went back and read. 
I'm not sure the fly control is safe for goats. I had looked into it years ago and I couldn't find a answer to it so by passed minerals with it in it to be on the safe side. I would either find a different way to control flies. If your starting to cool off the fly season should be coming to a end anyways


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Jessica84 said:


> There is purina wind and rain in a bag and it is just straight loose minerals. If they still had them at my TS I would still be using them I liked those minerals that much and I know is totally ok for goats.


Sorry, I was unclear. I don't want to use these minerals. You expressed regret you could not get them and I asked if your TSC would have them shipped to the store for YOU.

I'm happy with what I use.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Lol ok that's what I did think at first but then I was like ok maybe she's saying to order the other for the OP. I can order them BUT I have to get it by the pallet. So it would be 50 bags @ $30 a bag which I would totally bite that bullet it I thought they wouldn't get hard and nasty sitting there so long. I feed roughly 50# a month so that would be 50 months worth of minerals. I tried asking the few goat people around me if they wanted to go in with me but they have it in their mind goats need goat minerals. 
The minerals I'm using now they like and I like but they are something like $26 for 25# so a little expensive but nothing is wasting


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

D**n, that bites. I could buy a single bag here and ship it to you, but that would be expensive...

Goats don't need goat minerals, goats need good minerals...

I'm sorry.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I learned a long time ago when someone has something set in their mind there is no changing it so I was not about to argue about the minerals. Which I guess on some things I'm the same way but I try not to lol


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## TCOLVIN (Sep 22, 2014)

mariarose said:


> D**n, that bites. I could buy a single bag here and ship it to you, but that would be expensive...
> 
> Goats don't need goat minerals, goats need good minerals...
> 
> I'm sorry.


When you say good minerals, what type mineral are you referring to?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well @TCOLVIN Goats need loose minerals, because their tongues are soft, and can't get what the goat needs off of a block.

But loose mineral mixes are not created equal.

For example, some of the cheaper ones are full of the oxide form of the minerals. Oxides are not very bioavailable, which is a bad thing in a loose mineral mix. You can find this out in the ingredient list. Not the guaranteed analysis. If you see a bunch of oxides, you are wasting your money. (copper oxide is the best form for boluses. Do not supplement with a faster acting copper in a bolus form, or in a drench, because the goat can not tell you, "ENOUGH", Only the oxide is safe in a bolus)

Also, even if there is not an overload of oxides, the actual mix can be not very good. For most of the US, you need a lot of copper and a lot of selenium. In general terms, if it is a cattle mineral you are going to see high levels of these 2 minerals. But not always. I found a Nutrebeef formula, sold by TSC, that is beyond pathetic. Don't get this one.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/nutrebeef-all-purpose-mineral?cm_vc=-10005

Basically, the least you should find of these 2 minerals is 1500 ppm and 20 ppm You can find these numbers in the Guaranteed analysis, not the ingredients.

Salt is used as an attractant and as a limiter. So you need some salt, but not a great amount, Because the animals will stop eating the minerals when they've had enough salt, But that does not mean they've gotten enough minerals.

Here is my favorite mineral mix. Look at the tags on your minerals and compare. IMO, the closer you can come to this, the better. I feed alfalfa pellets, so I'm not worried about the Calcium/Phosphorus ratio.

http://www.co-opfeeds.com/ourcoop08/feeds/products/goat/productDetail.aspx?fm=73

This is my go-to, my standby, because it is close and always available. Same thing with the Calcium/Phosphorus ratio. Click on Onyx

http://www.orangegrovecoop.com/images/E0209301/Minerals.pdf

This one is popular with goat owners. I am underwhelmed. The ingredients and the guaranteed analysis is in the details section

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/manna-pro-goat-mineral-supplement-8-lb

Here is a comparable yet superior product, imo.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/purina-6-phosphorus-cattle-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

Here is the one that @Jessica84 likes, I think. My TSC will carry it, hers won't. I'm using this link for her to see because these people will ship. I can't seem to find the nutrition specifics online to share.

https://www.nrsworld.com/purina-ani...cekVTtKJEaftLpmFlXDZX138wLEX1zfRoCSBIQAvD_BwE

A mineral mix is important, kind of like a multivitamin for humans. It does not mean your goats won't ever need extra copper, just like us taking a multivitamin does not mean we'll never an extra dose of vitamin c.

But a good mineral mix increases health and production, therefore profits. None at all means unthriftiness and worsening production, susceptibility to parasites, inability to carry pregnancies, eventually death. Goats need good minerals...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All good advice


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