# Thoughts on buck conformation?



## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

So I have a buck that I'm not sure if I wanna keep him or get rid of him, and his conformation seems so good in my eyes that I dont wanna send him off anywhere. I definitely don't have a well trained eye, so I'm coming here to ask. Be 100% honest, conformation faults and what he's good on


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## Rysktal (Jan 11, 2020)

What breed is he?


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

I’m not great with conformation but he looks like a nice guy to me! I love his topline! Hopefully these people will be able to help you… @Dandy Hill Farm @MellonFriend @happybleats


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Knowing his breed would be helpful. I'm guessing either pure lamancha or lamancha mix? Is he registered? How old is he? Can you get a rear shot of him?

I agree with Doe C, that his topline looks very nice. I like his rump length and angle too. Pasterns look good, body length, overall blending look very nice too. I'd maybe like him to be a little deeper bodied. I would also like to see his front legs placed a little farther under him. 

Overall, I think he looks like a very nice buck. 🙂


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

What are you breeding for? If dairy and milk, the udders behind him from his dam and sire are extremely important. Without great udders, it’s a nope for me.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Rysktal said:


> What breed is he?


Lamancha. dairy buck Lol


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> I’m not great with conformation but he looks like a nice guy to me! I love his topline! Hopefully these people will be able to help you… @Dandy Hill Farm @MellonFriend @happybleats


thank you! 😊😊


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> Knowing his breed would be helpful. I'm guessing either pure lamancha or lamancha mix? Is he registered? How old is he? Can you get a rear shot of him?
> 
> I agree with Doe C, that his topline looks very nice. I like his rump length and angle too. Pasterns look good, body length, overall blending look very nice too. I'd maybe like him to be a little deeper bodied. I would also like to see his front legs placed a little farther under him.
> 
> Overall, I think he looks like a very nice buck. 🙂


he is mostly lamancha but just a teeeeeny tiny bit of ND. He is not registered.









he's definitely not wide, if that's what you're looking for LMAO. so if i breed him to kids from another buck that fixes those deeper body and front leg issues, would the resulting kids likely have goodconformation?? the other buck doesn't have the topline, DEFINITELY doesn't have the rump, has a short neck, etc. but Billy doesn't have those issues. the other buck is also a lot wider than billy. Thank you for your in-depth answer!!


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

goatblessings said:


> What are you breeding for? If dairy and milk, the udders behind him from his dam and sire are extremely important. Without great udders, it’s a nope for me.


I'm breeding for multipurpose, my plan was to breed a meat buck into a dairy doe, then take this buck and give her back a little bit of dairy. i've glanced at his dam's udder in person and it looked really good in teat placement and volume, especially for a first freshener. i don't know about dam's attachments. i have nothing on the sire, but i hope he has a good udder because his conformation isn't very great 🤣


these goats won't get showed or anything, i just wanna have a little fun with breedings Lol.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> so if i breed him to kids from another buck that fixes those deeper body and front leg issues, would the resulting kids likely have goodconformation?? the other buck doesn't have the topline, DEFINITELY doesn't have the rump, has a short neck, etc. but Billy doesn't have those issues. the other buck is also a lot wider than billy.


Here is the other buck Lmao. not great.


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I agree with your assessment of his width. I'm a stickler for width, so that to me personally that's a big must. Something else that could be improved would be for him to be more even thurl to hips. See how he gets narrower at the hips and then widens out? That's what I'm talking about. It would be better if hip to thurl he was more like the green line. I'd also maybe like to see his escutcheon more open, but that generally comes with a wider goat.










Dogs_with_horns said:


> so if i breed him to kids from another buck that fixes those deeper body and front leg issues, would the resulting kids likely have goodconformation?? t!


They might have better conformation. Breeding two goats of different qualities can sometimes result in better kids, but other times not so much. Breeding for certain traits is a process and can take a few generations to see the results you are looking for. 😉

I also want to warn you of breeding a meat buck to a dairy doe. Always be sure your doe is old enough and wide enough to carry kids from a beefier buck. You wouldn't want to be breeding a buck to a doe who is bred to produce smaller kids than the buck.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> I agree with your assessment of his width. I'm a stickler for width, so that to me personally that's a big must. Something else that could be improved would be for him to be more even thurl to hips. See how he gets narrower at the hips and then widens out? That's what I'm talking about. It would be better if hip to thurl he was more like the green line. I'd also maybe like to see his escutcheon more open, but that generally comes with a wider goat.
> View attachment 239192
> 
> 
> ...


oh interesting!! i agree, he is shaped like a trapezoid 🤣🤣

the other buck is like, a whole hand shorter than billy. would it be okay?? the doe isn't a first freshener, by the next freshening she would be a second freshener, but it was an earlier than wanted accidental breeding with Billy and so i have no idea how that would work, since the kids are likely not gonna be wide. I'd only breed the meaty buck to the doe, not the kids of the doe and billy probably. Lmao
I think, since my doe isn't incredibly thin at the hips, and she's so big compared to the buck he might need a stepstool to reach her (🤣), it'd probably be ok, right?? the buck is meaty but he's some sorta cross between miniature breeds and boer. the sire is a ND


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

also the reply didn't post when i tried to a couple hours ago 😭😭😭😭 hate when that happens


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> he other buck is like, a whole hand shorter than billy. would it be okay?? the doe isn't a first freshener, by the next freshening she would be a second freshener, but it was an earlier than wanted accidental breeding with Billy and so i have no idea how that would work, since the kids are likely not gonna be wide. I'd only breed the meaty buck to the doe, not the kids of the doe and billy probably. Lmao
> I think, since my doe isn't incredibly thin at the hips, and she's so big compared to the buck he might need a stepstool to reach her (🤣), it'd probably be ok, right?? the buck is meaty but he's some sorta cross between miniature breeds and boer. the sire is a ND


What breed is the doe? I wouldn't go on height alone to decide if your doe is sized properly for your buck. I would look at her width as well as her general overall size. If you have the information available, I would also look at what the birth weights of her kids from her FF were, as well as if your buck has had any kids before, what they weighed. Smaller buck to larger doe is always a safer option.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

You may want to get REALLY clear on your breeding plan. Conformation for dairy goats and meat goats is very different. Many people will use Nubians as a dual purpose breed or a Boer ( dam) x Nubian cross or Kiko x Nubian to get a faster growing meat goat. Mixing a lot if different and sometimes unknown breeds really is hoping - a lot - getting what you want. Even kids from the same dam/sire in a purebred pairing can give you different body types, depending on whose genetics are stronger for that kid.
It’s costing a lot now to feed .. so I hope you get and you can sell the kids who aren’t your keepers. Best wishes.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> What breed is the doe? I wouldn't go on height alone to decide if your doe is sized properly for your buck. I would look at her width as well as her general overall size. If you have the information available, I would also look at what the birth weights of her kids from her FF were, as well as if your buck has had any kids before, what they weighed. Smaller buck to larger doe is always a safer option.


the doe is a Nubian crossed with lamancha. I'll get pics of her when i can Lol. I didn't weight her FF buckling. the buck has given kids before, but the breeder didn't weigh either. my scale is some really old bathroom scale and is not at all accurate unless on perfectly level ground, i have no idea how to weigh my goats. 😂

this is the doe, born april of 2021


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

A nubian lamancha doe on paper should be fine to breed to a lamancha nigi buck. How much bigger than her is he? I mean male goats are often going to be larger than females, but you just don't want a buck to be larger in excess.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

goatblessings said:


> You may want to get REALLY clear on your breeding plan. Conformation for dairy goats and meat goats is very different. Many people will use Nubians as a dual purpose breed or a Boer ( dam) x Nubian cross or Kiko x Nubian to get a faster growing meat goat. Mixing a lot if different and sometimes unknown breeds really is hoping - a lot - getting what you want. Even kids from the same dam/sire in a purebred pairing can give you different body types, depending on whose genetics are stronger for that kid.
> It’s costing a lot now to feed .. so I hope you get and you can sell the kids who aren’t your keepers. Best wishes.


great point! The people i bought these goats from was a friend, I decided i would rather get goats that i know have been well-cared for and are ok quality than get goats that are better quality but i have issues with them because i bought from a breeder i didn't know. I'm gonna transition my herd into being primarily boer, with a few nubians crossed with boer eventually. for now these three goats that have been talked about are me experimenting with what i want and what to expect with breeding different breeds. None of these goats, the originals or resulting kids will be showed, most will just be bred a few times with different goals in mind and then sold as dairy or dairy mixed with meat, since the doe pictured above is a pretty good milker. thank you


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> A nubian lamancha doe on paper should be fine to breed to a lamancha nigi buck. How much bigger than her is he? I mean male goats are often going to be larger than females, but you just don't want a buck to be larger in excess.


Billy is smaller than the doe, actually. Lol. I think he'll always stay a little bit smaller than her. The breeder i got them from bought the dam of the doe bred without any info on the sire, so the sire might be a bigger breed or just a nubian, i have no idea. I have no worries breeding billy to sugar, they're both similar in width and breeds and whatnot. the other buck, elvis is shorter than billy and very much so shorter than sugar, just he's much chunkier than both of them


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> the doe is a Nubian crossed with lamancha. I'll get pics of her when i can Lol. I didn't weight her FF buckling. the buck has given kids before, but the breeder didn't weigh either. my scale is some really old bathroom scale and is not at all accurate unless on perfectly level ground, i have no idea how to weigh my goats. 😂
> 
> this is the doe, born april of 2021
> 
> View attachment 239253


just realized i messed this up, the buck that was bred to her as a FF has had kids, but Billy, the buck i showed has not had kids before


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> Billy is smaller than the doe, actually. Lol. I think he'll always stay a little bit smaller than her. The breeder i got them from bought the dam of the doe bred without any info on the sire, so the sire might be a bigger breed or just a nubian, i have no idea. I have no worries breeding billy to sugar, they're both similar in width and breeds and whatnot. the other buck, elvis is shorter than billy and very much so shorter than sugar, just he's much chunkier than both of them


You should be just fine then. 👍 



Dogs_with_horns said:


> great point! The people i bought these goats from was a friend, I decided i would rather get goats that i know have been well-cared for and are ok quality than get goats that are better quality but i have issues with them because i bought from a breeder i didn't know. I'm gonna transition my herd into being primarily boer, with a few nubians crossed with boer eventually. for now these three goats that have been talked about are me experimenting with what i want and what to expect with breeding different breeds. None of these goats, the originals or resulting kids will be showed, most will just be bred a few times with different goals in mind and then sold as dairy or dairy mixed with meat, since the doe pictured above is a pretty good milker. thank you


If you are interested in a truly dual purpose breed, I've just got to point out kinders. They are what I raise and I use them for both purposes and I absolutely love them. Not a lot of people know about them so I've always got to shamelessly point them out. 😅


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> You should be just fine then. 👍
> 
> 
> If you are interested in a truly dual purpose breed, I've just got to point out kinders. They are what I raise and I use them for both purposes and I absolutely love them. Not a lot of people know about them so I've always got to shamelessly point them out. 😅


I've heard a lot of amazing things about kinders!! I just don't like the look of them Lol. Maybe in the future, but currently i have no interest in breeding kinders. 

glad to hearI should be ok with the breeding


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> I've heard a lot of amazing things about kinders!! I just don't like the look of them Lol. Maybe in the future, but currently i have no interest in breeding kinders.
> 
> glad to hearI should be ok with the breeding


You don't like the look of them? 🥺









Eye of the beholder, I guess. 🙃


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I’ve noticed you’ve stated you don’t show - and that’s fine! Most people don’t. But learning conformation for both meat and dairy breeds helps you to get the most of what you want out of your herd. I’m dairy- and don’t pretend to know a ton about meat goats- I do know dairy crosses ) recorded grades and experimentals) are some wonderful goats that deserve a lot of praise. It does take years to develop your herd, so knowing your lines is very important to get you where you want to go.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> You don't like the look of them? 🥺
> View attachment 239274
> 
> 
> Eye of the beholder, I guess. 🙃


Ok that is cute 🤣🤣 especially those moon spots!! but I gotta say, something about the pendulous-eared or earless larger breeds just does it for me Lol. especially the bucks, i love the look of larger breed bucks. the bucks that have a ND influence look so strange to me, i don't know why!! Will likely have a purebred ND doe or two someday, but for now the big ol' muscular bucks and does are by far superior to me Lol. 

GOSH DARNIT IT DIDN'T SEND AGAIN


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

goatblessings said:


> I’ve noticed you’ve stated you don’t show - and that’s fine! Most people don’t. But learning conformation for both meat and dairy breeds helps you to get the most of what you want out of your herd. I’m dairy- and don’t pretend to know a ton about meat goats- I do know dairy crosses ) recorded grades and experimentals) are some wonderful goats that deserve a lot of praise. It does take years to develop your herd, so knowing your lines is very important to get you where you want to go.


that's great to hear!! my future plans is definitely to show meat goats, and honestly maybe dairy does too! i always find the threads about judging a dairy doe's conformation really interesting. )) you definitely seem to know a lot of valuable stuff about goats


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

75% Boer 25% Nubian is one of my fav crosses and they sell the best other than my full Boers!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> Ok that is cute 🤣🤣 especially those moon spots!! but I gotta say, something about the pendulous-eared or earless larger breeds just does it for me Lol. especially the bucks, i love the look of larger breed bucks. the bucks that have a ND influence look so strange to me, i don't know why!! Will likely have a purebred ND doe or two someday, but for now the big ol' muscular bucks and does are by far superior to me Lol.
> 
> GOSH DARNIT IT DIDN'T SEND AGAIN


I understand! 😄 If you don't enjoy the way your goats look, what's the point of having them? 😁


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> 75% Boer 25% Nubian is one of my fav crosses and they sell the best other than my full Boers!


oh wow, that actually sounds like a great cross!! i think i have one of those, or something resembling that cross Lol. she's amazing, very excited to see how her kids end up


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> I understand! 😄 If you don't enjoy the way your goats look, what's the point of having them? 😁


Yep!! i mean, if i had an ND or ND cross, it would still look adorable to me after i own it for a while Lol. Most of my goats have some ND mixed in and i do actually like it, just wouldn't buy another.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> oh wow, that actually sounds like a great cross!! i think i have one of those, or something resembling that cross Lol. she's amazing, very excited to see how her kids end up


You can see them in my breeding / kidding thread if you want to! Dazzle and Junie are their names


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> You can see them in my breeding / kidding thread if you want to! Dazzle and Junie are their names


ohhh! yess I loved those two 😊😊 

I've gotta say, you have super impressive goats, dude.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> ohhh! yess I loved those two 😊😊
> 
> I've gotta say, you have super impressive goats, dude.


Awww thank you 😆🤗. I would love to see some pics of yours I think the whole crossbreeding idea is really cool if I wasn’t so in love with Boers that’s what I would do lol.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> Awww thank you 😆🤗. I would love to see some pics of yours I think the whole crossbreeding idea is really cool if I wasn’t so in love with Boers that’s what I would do lol.


LOL. boers are amazing i have to agree!! will definitely put some threads together whenever i have does due 😊


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> LOL. boers are amazing i have to agree!! will definitely put some threads together whenever i have does due 😊


Awesome! When are you going to have yours kid I’m hoping for mid March!


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> Awesome! When are you going to have yours kid I’m hoping for mid March!


my next kids are due to an accidental breeding, so mine are mid-december!! no flies, just pure surprise Lol


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> my next kids are due to an accidental breeding, so mine are mid-december!! no flies, just pure surprise Lol


Oof I couldn’t do cold weather kiddings 😅


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## CountyLineAcres (Jan 22, 2014)

goatblessings said:


> You may want to get REALLY clear on your breeding plan. Conformation for dairy goats and meat goats is very different. Many people will use Nubians as a dual purpose breed or a Boer ( dam) x Nubian cross or Kiko x Nubian to get a faster growing meat goat. Mixing a lot if different and sometimes unknown breeds really is hoping - a lot - getting what you want. Even kids from the same dam/sire in a purebred pairing can give you different body types, depending on whose genetics are stronger for that kid.
> It’s costing a lot now to feed .. so I hope you get and you can sell the kids who aren’t your keepers. Best wishes.


This is very well said! I totally agree.

The biggest issue with mixing meat and dairy breeds is that their conformation requirements are quite contrasting. 

Breeds were created to produce consistency. When you crossbreed, there are many more variables at play, so they’re not very predictable.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> Oof I couldn’t do cold weather kiddings 😅


I live in New Mexico, it doesn't get very cold here so i bet sugar and her kids, along with me, will be just fine Lol


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

CountyLineAcres said:


> This is very well said! I totally agree.
> 
> The biggest issue with mixing meat and dairy breeds is that their conformation requirements are quite contrasting.
> 
> Breeds were created to produce consistency. When you crossbreed, there are many more variables at play, so they’re not very predictable.


great point! definitely going to eventually cull the crossbreds, but for now it seems like a pretty fun adventure Lol.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> I live in New Mexico, it doesn't get very cold here so i bet sugar and her kids, along with me, will be just fine Lol


Oh that’s why 😂 yeah your fine. I’m in KY so it’s cold in the winter here.


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> Oh that’s why 😂 yeah your fine. I’m in KY so it’s cold in the winter here.


yike! couldn't imagine winter kiddings there! Lol most years it only snows like 2 days a year over here. with my luck she's gonna go exactly on the one day it snows/has any bad weather 🤣🤣


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> yike! couldn't imagine winter kiddings there! Lol most years it only snows like 2 days a year over here. with my luck she's gonna go exactly on the one day it snows/has any bad weather 🤣🤣


That’s why I wait until Mid March lol. The good ole doe code 😂


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> That’s why I wait until Mid March lol. The good ole doe code 😂


Lol that is a fantastic idea. wish i could! like i said, this was an accidental breeding, highly doubt i will be redoing winter kiddings Lolll


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Of course, nature can always throw a wrench in plans no matter when you kid. Last year January was a much nicer month weather wise than March-May 🤣
At least for me up here in ID. Lol


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> Lol that is a fantastic idea. wish i could! like i said, this was an accidental breeding, highly doubt i will be redoing winter kiddings Lolll


Yeah I wish I could go later like Aprilish but kids don’t sell as well in the summer


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Boer Mama said:


> Of course, nature can always throw a wrench in plans no matter when you kid. Last year January was a much nicer month weather wise than March-May 🤣
> At least for me up here in ID. Lol


LOLLL there's no avoiding it


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> You should be just fine then. 👍
> 
> 
> If you are interested in a truly dual purpose breed, I've just got to point out kinders. They are what I raise and I use them for both purposes and I absolutely love them. Not a lot of people know about them so I've always got to shamelessly point them out. 😅












think she can carry elvis's kids??


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

It's really hard for me to say from a picture. All I can say is the evidence you've given so far seems to suggest that she can.


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## Doe C Doe boers! (6 mo ago)

Dogs_with_horns said:


> View attachment 239487
> 
> 
> think she can carry elvis's kids??


How far along is she?


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

MellonFriend said:


> It's really hard for me to say from a picture. All I can say is the evidence you've given so far seems to suggest that she can.


Great to hear


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

Doe C Doe boers! said:


> How far along is she?


About exactly 3 months


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## Dogs_with_horns (6 mo ago)

alright i'm mad. she came back into heat 😭😂😂😂 i have no idea when she's gonna freshen next honestly


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