# Kid down, need advice



## Dayna

So I went to pick up Annabelle today and came home with two goats.

My friend had a few day old kid that was down. She stopped feeding it yesterday and decided to let nature take it's course.

It has a strong cry and a strong sucking reflex. So I asked her if I could take it home and give it a shot, and if it didn't get better I would put it down.

I'd rather put it down than let it starve to death.

So I have it here, it took 4 ounces of milk. I'm going to get a temp and a weight. The mother is nubian the father is nigerian dwarf.

It is a female.

It got plenty of colostrum. It has a whitish film over it's eyes that just happened in the last day or so. Can stand for a few seconds but cannot walk and eventually falls down from standing.

I understand it most likely wont' make it. I do not have BOSE, I do not have access to BOSE. I do not have selenium gel nor access. Our feed store doesn't have it, I called.

Suggestions? It hasn't had food in almost 24 hours which is bad I know. So she's dehydrated most likley on top of whatever else is wrong.

So I would love to hear some ideas.

4# 12 Ounces
Temp 105.7


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## mayia97420

Need to be sure she stays nice and warm so she can digest the milk- Might try b complex and vit E - can crush tabs /open gel caps - also honey/molasses on your finger might give her a bit more energy - not an expert here -probios?? can't hurt and might help


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## Summersun

Temp is high. Need to get it down. Antibiotics and banamine will get it down. Maybe someone else can suggest which antibiotics is best. 

Electrolyites for dehydration. There is a recipe on here using blackstrap molasses. B complex.

Do you have a tractor supply anywhere near. They carry selenium gel and you can get a vitamin e gel tab and squirt in her mouth.


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## Dayna

No, I'm on an Island in Hawaii and we do not have a TSC, we have a dels (which is affiliated with them) but it has a very limited supply of stuff. I cannot get selenium gel.

I just gave her some probios. She was just in a hot car so that could affect her temp. I don't have ac and had to drive her home. I will re take her temp in a bit before doing anything to bring it down.

I do not have banamine. I do have a penG and LA200 for antibiotics.

Eyes seem a bit goopy......


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## Dayna

I need to figure out how much milk she needs each day too, does anyone offhand know the ounces times weight divided by whatever feedings per day?










Cloudy eye:










Cloudy eyes:


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## happybleats

weigh her and multiply that by 16 to get her weight in oz...then multiply that by 10% to see how much she needs per day...then divide in 3-4 bottles...

She may need vit A ...also check to see if her lashes are turned inward...this will irritate the eyes and cause cloudiness..in the mean time put something like neosportin in them both 
if she still has high fever..start the Pen G..dont use LA 200..it can interfer with bone and teeth growth..Pen is 1 cc per 20# sub Q..pull back be sure there is no blood...

B complex would be good...Nutra-drench...?


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## Trickyroo

Would tubing her be better if she is too week and doesn't have a good suck reflex yet ?

Poor thing  Hope she pulls through for you Dayna :hug: She wouldn't have had a chance if you didn't step in and take her home !


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## Trickyroo

Cathy , what about selenium sold in drug stores in pill or capsule form ? Im wondering what the dose would be for that…..Would aspirin help with her temp since Dayna doesn't have access to banamine ?


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## Dayna

She has a good suck reflex, thank goodness! I just started giving her a crushed up bcomplex in a tiny bit of water. She's taking that okay.


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## kc8lsk

You can get human selenium at most pharmacies I did that this year then crush up the tablet put a vit. e tablet Popped right into the bottle


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## Dayna

You can see her lashes in that last photo do you think they are bugging her eyes? They seem to point straight down.


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## Dayna

happybleats said:


> weigh her and multiply that by 16 to get her weight in oz...then multiply that by 10% to see how much she needs per day...then divide in 3-4 bottles...
> 
> She may need vit A ...also check to see if her lashes are turned inward...this will irritate the eyes and cause cloudiness..in the mean time put something like neosportin in them both
> if she still has high fever..start the Pen G..dont use LA 200..it can interfer with bone and teeth growth..Pen is 1 cc per 20# sub Q..pull back be sure there is no blood...
> 
> B complex would be good...Nutra-drench...?


So is that 7.2 ounces per day? She weighs 4.5 pounds. Is PenG once a day?


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## ksalvagno

Pen g is twice a day.


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## Trickyroo

From what i can see Dayna , part of her eyelashes do look like they are pointing inside her bottom lid. I zoomed in as much as my computer will allow and thats what i see , and i used my glasses , but i still can be wrong . Do your drug stores there carry selenium and other vitamins ? The selenium will help her and Vit. E.


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## Dayna

its just now 4pm. I usually get up at 6am. Could I give her the first dose now if she still has a fever and again at 6 and then do 6am and 6pm or should I wait till 6pm?


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## Dayna

I can run to a drugstore tomorrow, most everything is closed by now in our small town thats not a grocery store. I have a drugstore in Pahoa I can drive to tomorrow and hope to find selenium, is selenium also vit E or do I need to give them together?


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## Dayna

okay her temp is 105.8 so she does actually have a temp.


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## Dayna

Oh and just found out she was born on the 2nd of this month so she's a week old today.


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## kc8lsk

Selinum is not vit E but they need each other to work


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## Trickyroo

Thats a high temp . Vit. E and selenium are two different things.
The Vit. E works very well with the selenium. Vit. E is good for tissue , muscular and udder health


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## BoulderOaks

If the eyelashes are turned in, you will need to apply a topical antibiotic to the cornea of the eye. When we've had it in the past, we slice out a strip of skin to correct the position of the eyelashes. But here is a good link that describes slightly less surgical treatments. I have also done the first one, with the needle, once. Works like a charm.

http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/eye-diseases-in-sheep.aspx


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## janeen128

I would also be giving her some electrolytes as well, not with the milk. When I brought my little rescue guy home he hadn't had milk in so long he got sick..., but then after a day of giving him electrolytes, he was able to digest the milk better. If start on the Pen G now with that fever... I hope she pulls through....


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## Dayna

Well I went ahead and gave her the penG, decided to not wait till 6pm I will just get up at 4am if I have to. She stood up to pee. Thats the first time I've seen her stand on her own since I got her a couple hours ago. Everytime I tried to stand her up she just flopped down. 

And she peed which is good. Means liquid is working its way through her, which means at least something is functioning right!

I put some neosporin on her eyes. I'm going to leave her alone now for a couple hours so she can get some good quality sleep now that her belly is full and the peng should start working and she's got b complex in her system (she loved the crushed pill in a few drops of water, yuck.


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## Trickyroo

I don't know the dose for a baby but aspirin will help with her temp.
hopefully someone will know what the dose is for a newborn.
Now i mean real aspirin , not Tylenol or anything else , just want to be clear on that . The dose for a goat is 325mg ( one adult aspirin ) per 10lbs. ( 45 mgs per pound. ) 
Example: 120# goat - at 325mg = 17 tablets.

I would like to have Cathy's or Karen's or someone who would know for sure if giving a newborn or one as young as yours aspirin.
But with a fever that high , i think you may need to do what you can to get it under control. Anybody know about this ?


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## Trickyroo

Dayna, I would check her every hour , i know its a lot to do , but thats what i would be doing. Keep her hydrated  Your doing great !


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## Dayna

I will give her electrolytes every hour or so I guess. She really seems to want to sleep. I'm trying to keep her cool too. I don't want her to be so snuggly that she gets even warmer.


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## Dayna

Fiasco farm shows a normal temp up to 104 so 105.8 is high but maybe not that high. Unless someone knows for sure with the asprin I would just hope the peng brings it down.


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## Trickyroo

Normal temp for a goat ( that i know of ) is 101.5 - 103.5


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## nannysrus

105.8 is a pretty high temperature


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Trickyroo

I would wait till someone OKs the aspirin too . 
You want to make sure she doesn't get chilled . Im going to see if i can find someone who can jump in here. BRB


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## mayia97420

Some of her temp could be dehydration too. Getting the electrolytes and fluid in her may help lower her temp.


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## Dayna

I have some lactated ringers, can I give her that in a bottle?


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## Trickyroo

I wouldn't , if anything you can give them SUB Q if you have the hook ups. But make sure they are warm before giving them.
I think if she is taking the electrolytes , that would be enough .


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## Dayna

I was thinking the lactated ringers might be better than the electrolyes... since it's perfectly formulated. I can do sub-q or with a bottle. I was looking at the formulation and it looks pretty much like pedialyte.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Give the aspirin asap. I don't know the dose of the baby aspirin, but I assume it's just a lesser strength than the adult aspirin, so dose aaccording. If its half strength then just give twice as much to equal the same strength as the adult aspirin. 
You need that temp down asap, 101.5-103.5 is normal, 103.5 being a high normal, borderline feverish. 
Put cold packs on pulse points to help lower the temp.


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## Trickyroo

Your probably right Dayna , but i never heard of giving it orally , so i can't say.


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## Trickyroo

Thanks Lacie :hug:


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## Dayna

Will the asprin mess up her rumen? That's what is freaking me out. if I give her asprin or if I give her too much will I kill her by crapping up her already fragile stomach system? I would rather her have a fever for a few hours longer while the peng kicks in than kill her by ruining her stomach. 

Has anyone given a week old kid asprin? I guess that's what I need to know. Just because it's safe for an adult with an established rumen doesn't mean it's safe for a kid. So I'm kinda hesitant here to just dose her.


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## Dayna

If she's 5 poundsish (she's 4.5) then half an adult asprin would be the dose I guess. Still I'm worried. What will it do to her rumen.


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## Trickyroo

I know , i understand , but what I'm afraid of is her temp going higher and causing irreversible damage. IDK Dayna , your in such a tough situation  At least you have people coming on that have more experience . If you want more advice on the aspirin , try PMing someone …….thats what i do


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## Trickyroo

Maybe its better to get the fever down , then worry about her rumen ?
IDK


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## Trickyroo

But there is the baby aspirin , so the little amount they get may not be such a bother for her rumen…..?


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## Dayna

Okay I have two low dose asprin here. 81mg each. That is pretty close to half an adult asprin. They are enteric coated though. So can I disolve them? I dont' want to just shove a pill down her throat.


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## Trickyroo

Wait ……I think more people will be popping by here. Just give it a few minutes to see what they say , ok ?


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## goathiker

Baby doesn't have a rumen yet, they are single stomached until they start cudding. 1 low dose apsirin is fine. Crush it if you want.


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## Dayna

Yeah I'll wait a few more minutes. She just cried so I stood her up and she peed again. So the pee is moving through her system and that's good.


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## Trickyroo

Oh great , thanks Jill. In a panic ( mine ) those "minor" things go out the window i guess


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I would give the aspirin, I've given it to kids before, and Tylenol, etc. 

I would to the ringers SQ. It will absorb much faster and hydrate her quickly, opposed to having to digest and get it through her stomach.


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## Trickyroo

Your in good hands now Dayna


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Whoops, little late on the info, sorry. I'm outside milking and I didn't see the other page.


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## Dayna

okay gave her low dose asprin in 3 cc's of water and she sucked it down. She's happy to suck down anything I give her poor girl.

THANK YOU to everyone.


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## goathiker

Good Job, now no more water in her bottle, milk or electrolytes only. Plain water will make her pee blood.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm

I used duct tape from top of head to eyelid to fix 2 inverted mild entropion eyelids this spring...but yes temp and nutrients are more important


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## hallsthirdacrefarm

It held the lashes out and sticky enough to stay put


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## Tenacross

Following this thread. Here are a couple of my thoughts.
Putting some neosporin in her eyes is a good idea if you don't have any opthalmic ointment. If it's hot where you are, 105. isn't extremely high in a baby. With the TLC that you are providing, this baby could make a come back. Give the TLC a chance before you go to extreme measures. Don't over feed her. Keep her hungry. Let her sleep if she wants. She'll wake up when she gets hungry again and let you know about it.


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## Dayna

Okay, I've given her a total of 3 ounces of electrolytes. I gave her a crushed up low dose asprin. Gas X. PenG. And when I first got her home I gave her a dose of probios.

Just took her temp and it's 105.3 now. So it went down just a little. She is eager to eat/drink the electrolytes. 

I've not given her ANY water in the bottle. I do know better than to do that. I've raised bottle babies before, just never one thats sick. She cried for help standing up and peed again.

So I think thats a good sign.


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## goathiker

Dayna said:


> okay gave her low dose asprin in 3 cc's of water and she sucked it down. She's happy to suck down anything I give her poor girl.
> 
> THANK YOU to everyone.


No insult intended, you said water here...Just wanted to be sure


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## Dayna

Oh I mix water with medicine, about 3cc's at a time and feed her medicine in syringe, not a bottle. I do that for adult goats too. I've never had a problem using water to mix medicines... I figure 3cc's won't break the bank.


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## Dayna

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203670904867870


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## janeen128

I sure hope she pulls through... You are doing a good job;-)


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## janeen128

Awe, she's cute, and she appears to be a fighter..;-)


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## Dayna

How often can I give asprin if her temp goes back up.

SHE'S DOWN TO 103.3!!!!!!!

And she's taken a few steps on her own. And she's eating. And she's peed again.


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## glndg

Good luck with her. Hope she makes it.


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## janeen128

Wow, down to 103?? ;-) I'm guessing every 4-6 hours but I'm hoping she won't need it... I'm also not an expert... Perhaps the Pen G is also working.. Yay she is a fighter.....;-)


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## goathiker

It can be given every 12 hours. Sounds like she's doing better


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## Dayna

Thanks everyone. What would I do without the goat spot and all of you?!


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## loggyacreslivestock

Just catching up with this. Sounds like things are looking up. Keep up the good work.


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## happybleats

WOW..Dayna..wonderful job...I just caught up...sorry I was MIA....I have company this week ....But you have done a wonderful job...stop aspirin now that temp is down...keep up the comfort care and finish 5 days of Pen G so there is no relaps... I wonder if she was left too long to her own devices and so her body was shutting down...now you have got it kick started again...so pleased you were able to give her a chance!!


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## SalteyLove

Nice work so far! I'm sure you are exhausted, but she is a little cutie! 

I would get selenium and vitamin E human capsules to add to her bottle if you can. I believe there are a few people who also squirt a cod liver oil capsule in to the mouth for an extra pick me up for weak kids?

I really hope she is doing the adorable baby hop right now and giving you nice baby goat poops!


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## Dayna

Well it's almost 430am. Her temp is back up to 104.0 so I'm not sure if I should give her asprin or not. I'm leaning towards not and waiting to see if it goes up or down on it's own. She stood up and peed in the middle of the night on her own and her eyes seem less watery today with that neosporin. When I go to the drug store today I'll look for selenium, vit E and eye goo stuff like neosporin.

I'm going to give her the PenG again now. Maybe she stands a chance.


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## ksalvagno

Get Cod Liver Oil if you can too. I hope she pulls through for you


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## Dayna

Oh and she pooped in the middle of the night. The first part was dry and hard but the second part that came out was a nice moist milk poop that looked normal. 

Well while I was typing she pooped again! A nice normal milk poop!


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## ksalvagno

Good. Sounds like she is possibly on the road to recovery.


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## Dayna

I can't for the life of me understand exactly what is wrong with her. So sick that at 7 days old the owner thought she would just die. The owner is an awesome lady too, so it was no small deal for her to give up on this baby. It was breaking her heart. 

When it's more light out I'll get some more photos of her eyes so I can figure out what I need to do about that. I'm not sure she can see though.... so can a blind goat survive? If she has damage from eyelashes will it get slightly better or all better if I fix the eyelashes? Can her lashes do so much damage in under a week as to blind her?

So many unknowns. I'm glad that all my babies I've ever had have been healthy, though this is a good learning experience for me.


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## SalteyLove

Yes, the eyes can look like that just from rolled eyelashes - but it will heal much faster than you think! Just gently roll both the upper and lower eyelids outwards with your fingers several times daily and eventually they should stay. Apply an eye ointment or Neosporin daily as well. In more extreme cases something will be needed to hold the eyelids in the correct position but usually just rolling them out does the trick!

As for what could have gone wrong... perhaps the kid just got cold and stopped digesting milk and exhausted, or got separated from it's mother and stressed, or is selenium deficient and the legs just can't get under it. Sounds like everything is functioning okay! Was she pulled as a bottle baby or being dam-raised? Was she healthy at birth then went downhill? Iodine deficiency is also a possibility especially for females...


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## Dayna

She was lethargic at birth and couldn't stand or nurse. Then she started standing and nursing. Then stopped standing and nursing. Then her eyes started going cloudy. Then she started crying all the time. They did a mixture of dam raising and bottle raising since she was having such a hard time.

I don't know, I think maybe she has a combo platter and it was just too much for this little kid. I hope that her immune system can get healthy. Her digestive system seems to be working great. If I can get her walking and hopping and seeing then I think she'd be fine!


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## Dayna

Okay here are her eyeballs. What do you think?




























And are her teeth supposed to be so weirdly crooked? I never really looked at a kids teeth before.....


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## nannysrus

Okay, I think the eyes might be a mineral deficiency. I had a 3 month old that had the same film or foggyness. His eyes cleared up in just a few days of having loose mineral (he ate 1/4 cup a day for almost 2 weeks straight). 

There is a good mineral gel that can be given but I cannot for life of me think of the name. I will start looking for it now. 






Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Trickyroo

Would this help ? It's called Jump Start Plus 

DESCRIPTION

Oral microbial gel. A source of live, naturally occurring microorganisms to help maintain a healthier microbial balance in the digestive tract.
Furnishes 2 billion CFU/g plus vitamins and minerals to help keep an animal on feed during periods of stress. Aids in digestion of nutrients for maximum feed efficiency. Use for animals in training or show travel.
For use in Goats, Llama, Alpaca, Sheep, Swine, Cattle or Horses.
5 gram to 10 gram dose depending on animal.


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## janeen128

Nutra Drench might also work.. I get it at the Del's in WA..

Larger image | non-Flash view

Goat and Sheep Nutri-Drench

Read Reviews | Write a review
(Bovidr Laboratories) Goes to work fast! Use with weak newborns, ketosis, scours, pneumonia, anemia, twin, etc. Formulated to put glucose, vitamins, trace minerals and amino acids into the bloodstream within minutes. Specially formulated for sheep and goats that are off of feed, newborns.


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## goathiker

In the first pic I can see eyelashes laying right on the eye. In no picture can I see lower eyelashes at all.


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## Dayna

Dels here doesn't have nutri drench but they do have Power Punch.


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## Tenacross

Don't give up on those eyes. I've seen some really bad looking eyes that came back to perfectly normal. It's a fact that usually eyes like that are caused by entropion. It is usually the bottom eyelid that is causing the problem. In your pictures you can see the edge, which doesn't have any hair on it, which is normal. At least that's how I see the pictures. But still I must refer to the previous fact that it's usually entropion. Keep putting ointment. Pull that bottom eye lid down when you can. Often those two things will cure it, but for really stuborn cases you need to inject the lower eyelid with fluid to puff it up so it will unroll the eyelid and keep the hair out. I have done this. I used a tiny insulin needle and 1cc of saline. (You said you had lactated ringers, that might work too). I used the technique from the videos. Those folks used Pen G, and I can see how that could be better, but Pen G is also thick, as we all know, and hard to push through a tiny gauge needle, whereas the saline is easy.


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## Tenacross

Dayna said:


> Dels here doesn't have nutri drench but they do have Power Punch.


But isn't she eating, pooping and peeing like a normal bottle kid? She doesn't need anything else besides milk if that's the case. Finish the Pen G if she is started on that and keep checking the temp. Don't give her anything for temp unless it's high again. JMO.


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## Dayna

Cool, yeah she's eating, drinking, pooping and peeing! Just can't stand very well, and has the weird eye thing and a low grade fever right now. Last I checked 104.


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## Dayna

I'm going to try to get a photo of her lower eyelid. I didn't know it was the lower one, I just saw the long upper ones and assumed. lol

Also she's gained a bit of weight! Yesterday evening she weigh 4 pounds 8 ounces, today, it's not even noon yet and she weighs 5 pounds 6 ounces. So she really needed to get hydrated I think! Baby goats don't put on weight that quickly do they?


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## nannysrus

The weight gain shows just how dehydrated she was.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Dayna

Does it hurt to give her slightly more milk than she's supposed to have? She's STARVING TO DEATH. Or at least thats what she's telling me. She wants to eat all the freaking time. 

I've been giving her 3-4 ounces per feeding rather than the 2 she's supposed to have based on her weight.


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## Dayna

Here is a vid I took a few minutes ago:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203676700052746


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## nannysrus

IMO if she can eat that much an is comfortable and her tummy isn't engorged looking then let her have it. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Dayna

It doesn't seem to be causing her any trouble or discomfort to eat that much.


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## nannysrus

I just watched the video. She is so cute. I showed it to my 3 yo and she says "oh mommy look! She's drinking a bottle! Oh mommy can we bring her home with us"

She looks like she is standing up good. I would give her eyes time to clear up. I was looking it up a few minutes ago and their are several people who have had the same issue but everyone followed up within a week saying their eyes had cleared up.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Cactus_Acres

I would still go slow, since she has been so low recently. How long since you stopped or slowed down on the electrolytes? 

My goats like Power Punch better than Nutradrench. I will leave it up to the more experienced folks to tell you anything about using it one way or another.


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## Cactus_Acres

On the eyelids, keep rolling them outwards with your fingers when you handle her. I have one that had to have the stitch done to her eyelid as a baby (Ruby), and one of my boys this year only needed manual manipulation to get his to correct itself.


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## janeen128

I fed my little guy well not so little anymore... a bit more than recommended.., just because he was getting out of the starvation mode... He's healthy, and happy.. as long as there is no scouring, etc, I'd say go for it... Is she walking yet? She looks like she's strong enough too..


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## Dayna

I gave her two ounces of electrolytes about 3 hours ago. In between bottles. I figured since she's peeing a lot now I should probably stop the electrolytes.


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## Dayna

She can take a couple steps and then falls down. I make her stand for each bottle and take a couple steps afterwards. Just to build up her muscles.


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## janeen128

Yeah, I would stop the electrolytes... I would maybe work with her in the walking part..., it could be that she can't see clearly enough too, but once she realizes she can walk, bounce um watch out;-) hee hee! I can't wait for that video though... I think she's going to pull through;-)


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## Tenacross

Did you watch the eye fixing video?


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## Dayna

Tenacross said:


> Did you watch the eye fixing video?


I did, that looks easy enough if the eyelid rolling doesn't work out. I really need to get a close up view of her lower lid.


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## happybleats

As long as she is drinking her milk she does not need the electros..you want all her food to come from milk right now...I would be very careful not to over feed...feel her tumy after her bottle...if its flat but firm then she had enough...if its sunken in then add 1/2 oz more...if its poochy..then cut 1/2 oz...bottle babies will never get enough milk ..its up to use to cut them off...with all her troubles..its better to go slow...she is too weak to fight a too full tummy...

she looks great and you are doing very well!!! keep up the good work...


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## Dayna

Her tummy is a bit hard. She just peed. But should I skip a feeding? Should I give her electrolytes instead of milk?


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## Dayna

Well I went ahead and just gave her electrolytes. Just 2 ounces.


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## janeen128

As long as she's pooping and peeing fine I would continue with milk... If her tummy is firm then that is just right. Too hard not sure, but I honestly would just keep her on milk. How often are you feeding her?


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## happybleats

I agree..if she is pooping fine then keep with the milk...When you say her tummy is hard...is it flat and firm or bulging hard? not pooping? if she gets constipated, then try feeding less but more often...smaller amounts are easier to digest...also if she is contipated you will need to do an enema...


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## janeen128

How is she today?


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## Dayna

She is constipated today. She's been grunting to get the poop out and when she did it had a little tinge of blood on the outside.


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## Trickyroo

Must be from straining. Have you tried a enema to soften her stool ?


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## Dayna

I have never done an enema on anything before. I would need some pretty clear step by step instructions.

One thing that might bother her was that I switched her form her mothers milk to my does milk. I had some in the freezer and tossed her moms milk. Just in case her mom was deficient in anything and thats why she was born the way she was. I decided to not risk it and feed my does milk which has the possibility of being healthier.


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## Trickyroo

You can also try Milk of Magnesia  But i think the enema would be better. Don't do both though.

You can do a search and find directions on how to give the enema.
Its cooking oil and water.


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## janeen128

Well this is what I did. I had some warm water, added a little dish soap, used a (snot sucker that is used on human babies) I put bag balm on the tip and on their but, sucked some of the liquid in the snot sucker thing and inserted it in the butt, and squeezed gently. You can use a regular syringe I'm sure.. It worked like in a few minutes. 

Switching to your goats milk I think was a wise idea actually;-) I don't think that had anything to do with it..


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## Trickyroo

Yeah , thats another method  I was just thinking the oil may be better on the tummy. You can use a plain syringe as well to administer.
Sounds like she needs some relief , the poor thing  
I did a search on enemas and Cathy ( Happybleats ) has a good post on the thread "lethargic goat" , or something like that.


----------



## Dayna

She squeezed some poop out a bit ago so should I wait a while? Shes looking pretty comfortable right now resting. I hate to mess with her if I dont' have to.


----------



## Dayna

TrickyRoo can you pm or post the link on here. I've been searching and searching and people keep talking about enemas but I can't find concrete info. Or can someone just tell me the amount of liquid I should syringe into her butt? I mean like 3cc's or 30cc's? LOL She just stood up and strained again so I figure I should just do an enema.


----------



## Dayna

Oh and I was going to feed her less more often. Should I do like 1 ounce at a time? I gave her 2.5 ounces a little bit ago and her tummy seems to really hurt.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Dayna said:


> TrickyRoo can you pm or post the link on here. I've been searching and searching and people keep talking about enemas but I can't find concrete info. Or can someone just tell me the amount of liquid I should syringe into her butt? I mean like 3cc's or 30cc's? LOL She just stood up and strained again so I figure I should just do an enema.


Try 3cc to start. And she might not really want to eat, or seem like she has a upset stomach, because of the constipation.


----------



## nannysrus

You can add a little bit of kayro syrup to her bottle. 1/4 tsp to help keep her from getting constipated. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## janeen128

More like 3cc's. I didn't measure I just did it a few times until they (my wethers) were able to poop. They popped quite a bit.. They were bawling for a bottle about an hour later..


----------



## Dayna

just put 3cc's of warm water and a drop of dish soap up there... How long should I wait for her to poop before doing it again?


----------



## Dayna

Well here is what came out. Is this enough?


----------



## happybleats

To give an enema I prefer oil and water. Put 1. Tblsp. Oil...any oil is good...olive oil, casteroil..any cooking oil...in about one cup warm water...stir and draw up some in a syringe and gently insert..push the plunger slowly..do this a few times until some squirt back.out..then massage her tummy while it goes to work..this can take 30~40 minutes.....refill as needed...


----------



## happybleats

Insert.just the tip of the syringe


----------



## janeen128

I think there should be more coming out..., but she is tiny. That is a start...


----------



## Dayna

I went ahead and gave her another. Lets see if anything else comes out. I gave her 1.5 ounces of milk too. She's STARVING. lol She's always hungry but her tummy is always kind of bloaty feeling and hard. Poor girl. Here's hoping that the enema gives her some relief.


----------



## Trickyroo

Sorry , i was taking advantage of the break in the rain and ran out to feed , or should i say limped , lol.
Glad you gave the enema and she is pooping. That alone will make her feel so much better


----------



## Dayna

Shes starting to walk a bit!!!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203685589194969


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Ok I have never had a ND bottle baby but is 1.5 oz really enough per feeding? It just seems like such a small amount..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

Right now she is supposed to get 8 ounces per day in 4 feedings (that's 2 ounces per feeding). That was over loading her stomach so I'm doing more frequent feedings so she can poop. I'm doing 1-1.5 ounces every time her stomach empties which is every couple hours. She only weighs 5 pounds. lol


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Aw she's so delicate! I'm glad your taking such good care of her!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I'm really really trying. I wish I had magic that could just "POOF" make her better. I still don't know if she's going to make it, but the will to walk to me is a good sign I think. She wanted to be with me soooo badly she walked. Thursday she couldn't even stand up on her own and was left for dead, so this is an improvement!


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

How are her eyes doing? Do they look any better?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I've been rolling the bottom lids down and applying ointment once a day. She seems to be able to see now, which is awesome! The whitish film is still there but much less goop and tears. So I think whatever I'm doing is helping. If the eyelids don't go how they are supposed to I'll try the injection under the lower lid like in the video posted on here.


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## HappyCaliGoats

Well if she's starting to see something's then she must be improving! I'm so glad you saved her! She's sooo cute!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## ThreeHavens

Has her dam been CAE tested, per chance? I know CAE+ does can cause kids with some health issues. Great progress!


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## Dayna

In Hawaii very few does are tested. I'll test this girl if she stays in my herd. I do yearly testing. Even the local vets are like "why do you bother" ugh.....

Anyway, fat chance her dam was tested. The Mom was dumped at my friends house 2 days before giving birth by a lady that had to take off to the middle east.... So I don't even know anything about this kid other than her mom is a nubian and her dad is a nigerian dwarf. Birth of three kids, 2 males 1 female (this one). Males are both larger and doing fine.


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## Trickyroo

What a wonderful video of her walking towards you , that is so sweet !
She is so stinking adorable Dayna  Your doing great with her , keep it up


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## ksalvagno

Just way too cute! Walking pretty good too!


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## janeen128

Yay!! She's walking;-) How exciting!!;-) You are doing a great job with her!!


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## Dayna

I'm going to a show tonight. I'll be gone for about 5 hours. Hubby has instructions to give her one bottle halfway in between me leaving and coming back. 1.5 ounces and pick up any poop (though she's not had any since her enema)....

I NEVER get out and my friend Doug is the star of the show and his partner Scott offered to be my date... so I'm going! La Cage Aux Folles. Here's hoping there is no horrible things happen when I'm gone!


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## janeen128

I'm sure she will do just fine.. Hopefully she will start pooping on her own.. Hope he likes baby goats... Awe who wouldn't..;-)


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## Dayna

He sighed when he saw what I had brought home. Then I told him WHY I brought her home and he's been sweet ever since.  He's good and even letting her stay out in the living room till he goes to bed, then he'll put her in her basket in the bathroom till I get home. We have two dogs, so far not bothering her but I don't want to risk it. I won't be home till after 10pm so he'll have been in bed a while. He had to get up at 2am to go work national security at Iron Man all day (yuck) so he's BEAT.

I sure hope she starts pooping. That is bothering me, but I don't actually know how much a baby goat poops in a day....


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## happybleats

You are doing great with her..just keep following your gut..!


----------



## mayia97420

Have you given her any more Probios? That Karo in the bottle really does help. If her stools get to soft then stop. She looks so good walking.


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## Dayna

No, no more probios, should I add it to her milk once a day? I will add karo too, but how much would I add to 1.5 ounces of milk?


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## mayia97420

Just a small amount of karo 1/4 teaspoon to start - I would keep giving the porbios for a week ( thats what I did with my weak kid)


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## nannysrus

If she constantly has problems with constipation I put the kayro in every bottle. 

What you want to do is put just a small amount in each bottle till she starts pooping regularly but not runny or soft. If it gets soft on you then back of it. Some have contistant constipation issues while others only get constipated every now and then. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## milkmaid

I'm praying for her. You are doing a great job!


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## cecekingskid

Just wanted to jump in to say great job!!! She looks looking loads better since you've been taking such good care of her. Awe!!!


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## nannysrus

I just watched the video of her walking! How cute is that!! She is such a doll baby. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Trickyroo

You can add the probios to her milk


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## Dayna

She was quite loud and demanding today for her bottle. 2 ounces IS NOT ENOUGH she says but I made her stick to the 2 ounces anyway. At least until we get this constipation thing under control! I had tried the oil/water enema yesterday and nothing. So this morning I tried the dishsoap/water enema and she pooped out a bit within a couple minutes. Not much though, just a couple dry peices. Poor girl. 

I added Karo to her bottle this morning (it was before I got on here) and put a "drop", whatever came out in a drop size from the karo bottle. I'll measure next time to a 1/4 teaspoon.

On the probios there is that measuring scoop in there, I think it's 5 grams. Her first day, I gave her a whole scoop. Yesterday I did a half scoop. How much should I give her?

Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I noticed her spine sticking out a bit today, I'll get a weight after she poops a bit more. She's feeling boney and I don't like that.


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## Dayna

Just weighed her and she's down to 5 pounds 1 ounce. Down from 5.3 yesterday. So I'm giving her the right number of ounces based on her weight of milk. Does this mean I need to up it or is it just the dehydration evening out and her body playing catchup or what? I don't want to underfeed her, but I'm terrified of overfeeding her now that her tummy doesn't like more than 2 ounces of milk max.


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## HappyCaliGoats

I found this in the dairy goat info site.. She was responding to someone asking how much to feed a 4 # ND kid:

"Be it tiny quintuple miniature lamancha kids, nubians or boers, we always fed the same way. As much as they want as often as they will take it of colostrum that first 12 to 24 hours, and then as much milk as they want 4 times a day for a few weeks, then three times a day for a few more weeks, then twice a day until I wean them when they stop drinking all their milk and are really eating grain.

5 and 6 pounds if pretty normal for all triplets here and they get offered 12 ounce bottles of colostrum and then milk, then when they are finishing that whole 12 ounces, I move to 16 ounce bottles ( can you tell I am bottle feeding right now and not lambar feeding

So if she weighs 4 pounds she should at least eat 4 ounce of colostrum at a time, it is how much I would tube her also.

Floppy kid is about poor management. Kids who are super hungry tank up on milk when it's super hot outside, it builds acidosis in the rumen and the milk doesn't coagulate, it sits there and produces gas. Entero is about change, it's usually because of cold milk that is fed when kids are used to warm milk, new feed is put out, inconsistancy of feed and milk schedules. Non vaccination.

Imgaine anyone being able to keep up the routine of 1 ounce every 2 hours with a barn full of goats kidding. V
__________________
Vicki McGaugh
North of Houston Texas
www.Nubiansoaps.com retail, wholesale and naked for you to wrap and resell."

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## HappyCaliGoats

Here, I dont think you have to be a member to get to the site and read it.

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f19/nigerian-dwarf-bottle-feeding-schedule-27767/

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## Dayna

If you google how much to feed goat kids, you find tons of stuff saying to feed 10-12% of their body weight in ounces per day. People on here have told me that too. 

So you can imagine how confused I am. I have bottle fed quite a few kids, just not one this small. And I've always used the 10% calculation.


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## HappyCaliGoats

I have never had one that small either, that's why I went to that site, those people know what they are talking about just like people on here. Were you able to go to the link?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I was, and I read through it. I have not been able to feed her that much though per bottle. It makes her tummy hard and painful and she hollers in pain. I work from home and she's an only bottle baby so I can feed her as often as I have to, I can even get up in the middle of the night if need be. I'm not worried about my time. I know that it seems I should be able to feed her more per bottle but I can't. Well I can, but shes in pain so I won't.


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## HappyCaliGoats

The only ND I. Ever bottle fed was 8 weeks old when I pulled him off his dam. I dont remember what he weighed at 8 weeks but I was gigging him 16 oz twice a day. I'm pretty sure I have always fed more than 10% except with my very first bottle baby who was very thin and I was scared to give him more.. 

But when I got my bottle buck this year and the previous owner told me how much she was feeding him I was shocked! But I continued giving the 4 week old kid 26 oz twice a day and increased it slowly till he was at 32 oz twice a day as the breeder instructed! (bear in mind he is a Nubian and I'm definitely not saying to feed your baby anywhere near this much) when I got him I think he was 10-12 # and she was feeding him that much with no issues.. His belly was always huge after feelings but he is as healthy as can be! He was 100# by 5 months old and he's always been so healthy looking!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

Also how often can I give an enema? She only had a few crumbles come out after the enema this morning. And secondly can/should I give her more Vit B complex? All I have is the human kind, she really liked the one I gave her on Thursday but I'm worried about giving her too much but it also seemed to really perk her up more than anything else I did.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

I feel like the enemas won't do much if she doesn't have any stool to pass. With the amount she is eating, she is probably absorbing most of it and not producing much stool..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Is she a week old yet?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

HappyCaliGoats said:


> The only ND I. Ever bottle fed was 8 weeks old when I pulled him off his dam. I dont remember what he weighed at 8 weeks but I was gigging him 16 oz twice a day. I'm pretty sure I have always fed more than 10% except with my very first bottle baby who was very thin and I was scared to give him more..
> 
> But when I got my bottle buck this year and the previous owner told me how much she was feeding him I was shocked! But I continued giving the 4 week old kid 26 oz twice a day and increased it slowly till he was at 32 oz twice a day as the breeder instructed! (bear in mind he is a Nubian and I'm definitely not saying to feed your baby anywhere near this much) when I got him I think he was 10-12 # and she was feeding him that much with no issues.. His belly was always huge after feelings but he is as healthy as can be! He was 100# by 5 months old and he's always been so healthy looking!
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> ~Dee
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


I hear you and understand! I have a bottle baby that I decided to let nurse off my does. One gives a quart per feeding and the other 2.5 cups. He sucks that down twice a day with no problems and he's a pretty small guy.

The problem is that I can't feed her more than 2 ounces at a time without her stomach being in pain. I would love to feed her more, as she's LOST weight since yesterday. I need her stomach to process the food faster? I don't know, this is confusing. I figure as long as her stomach empties I can keep putting more in there. But making her be in pain from feeding her more than she can handle seems cruel.


----------



## Dayna

HappyCaliGoats said:


> Is she a week old yet?
> 
> Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list
> ~Dee
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


She is 10 days old today.


----------



## happybleats

I know its very confusing..this is where you as the care taker makes the best decision for your baby....I disagree with that article...to feed all they want is dangerous...Yes, some are succssful with giving large amounts of milk at once.....But really startingout with 10-12 % and tweekingit to fit each kid is the best way...not every kid can digest 12 oz at once and some kids need more then 6 oz at once...after each feeding...stand baby up and feel her tummy...it should be flat but firm..not squishy and not poochy....HOWEVER with a special little girl you have..she needs to be treated differently...and it seems you found her amount she can handle. You do want her to have at least the 10-12 % per day...but she needs it spread out more for easier digestabliltiy..Personally I never feed more then 16 oz at one feeding...by the time they need that much per their growth..they should be eating hay, graze and grain....


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## happybleats

If her tummy is hard...then most likely she is constipated..an enema wont hurt...you can do a two a day ..you want to keep things moving so she doesnt get sick...and it also helps her appitite...B complex will help as well...


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Dayna said:


> She is 10 days old today.


Is she nibbling any hay yet? That might help teach her tummy to work and digest better.

I understand your frustrated.. And you are doing the best you can! I'm really not trying to tell you what to do so much as try to figure out what's going on.. It's hard to assess a situation without being there.. You know what's best for her and you are doing a really good job taking care of her

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> If her tummy is hard...then most likely she is constipated..an enema wont hurt...you can do a two a day ..you want to keep things moving so she doesnt get sick...and it also helps her appitite...B complex will help as well...


Do I give her a crushed up whole adult human pill?


----------



## happybleats

Ive never used human B for goats....but we can certainly look some stuff up....I beleive Jill ( goathiker) has given advice on how to use them..I do know injected is the better way...much is lost orally...


----------



## janeen128

I'm kind of wondering if MOM would be better to be able to clean her system out rather than giving another enema? Just throwing it out there to help with the constipation... Maybe I'm wrong, but I just thought it could help regulate her system...


----------



## Dayna

I gave her a half pill just now. I don't know if it'll help or not but it really seemed to help on Thursday.


----------



## nannysrus

When giving an enema you need to insert enough fluids than can move into her system and remove what's constipating her. When you give and enema you should see a combination of hard dry pellets, soft pellets. And then slighty soft to runny poop in order to know you have removed what is causing the issue. By giving and enema and only removing a few dry pellets you aren't getting enough out to relieve her. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

Thank you for the explanation! If I need to do another enema today (which it sounds like I do) I will insert more liquid. She really really hates the enema.... I will have my husband hold her so I can do it a bit better. Not so easy on my own. She wiggles a lot and I'm worried about hurting her soft anus tissues.


----------



## nannysrus

Nobody or anything likes an enema ;-) 

After you give one that you have good success she will instantly feel better. 

I have had my fair share of enema giving lol 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

Do you by any chance have a feeding tube to a kid?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I've never tube fed a kid. She has a really good appetite so I don't think I'll need to? I have tube fed parrots so I understand the basic principal of the matter.


----------



## nannysrus

You can use a tube feeding syringe to give an enema. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## goathiker

Birdlet feeding syringes work really well too. They are the right shape and smaller around.


----------



## nannysrus

Hair coloring bottles will also work if you have one.

I don't know what you are using or how much enema you are giving. I'm trying to think of things that might make it easier.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## lottsagoats1

With my bottle kids, I always add a pinch of baking soda to one bottle a day. That helps with belly problems.


----------



## happybleats

Try laying baby on your lap...back legs hanging and front legs tuck...this is how I can get it done when Im by myself...I do this while sitting on the tub edge and babies bum and legs are in the tub lol..( Bleach is cheap) but I have the control and see how much baby poops....


----------



## Trickyroo

Hey Dayna  Cathy , once the enema is given , with enough liquid to help soften the stool and she passes a good amount and her tummy inst hard anymore , would MOM be good to give the next day ? I know you shouldn't give MOM and a enema , its either one or the other, i was thinking maybe it would help regulate her tummy so she doesn't get backed up again. Just curious  

If not , what about a little bit of Yogurt added to her milk ?
The drugstores sell tiny pills that you can take in place of yogurt , just curious if it would be better for her then adding to her milk…..
Im learning quite a lot here.


----------



## nannysrus

When constipation gets to a certain point both by mouth and rectal measures need to be taken to keep things moving and prevent a blockage from reoccurring. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## goathiker

I wouldn't give MOM to a tiny baby unless it were a life or death desperation call. It would be a really strong thing to give her and with no rumen to dilute it the dose would be hard to work out. Now maybe, if it comes to that, a baby laxative...I would try baby suppositories first though.


----------



## Trickyroo

Poor thing must be really backed up 
I was thinking if she does go and passes a good amount after the enema , i was thinking maybe the MOM would be good to give to keep her tummy happy  I wasnt sure if it would be too much for her tiny tummy to handle


----------



## Trickyroo

Thanks Jill for explaining that very well


----------



## Dayna

How much is too much liquid to put up her butt? She's not really pooping and I keep putting more in there..... Will she explode?


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

I'm not sure how much is too much for a tiny goat but I have put 60 ml into a 10.5 # cat before... Is any of the liquid coming back out?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## nannysrus

I honestly don't know how much is too much.

Is she passing anything at all? Or even trying?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

When was the last one you have her?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

She passed a tiny bit this morning, a few small hard clumps with blood. Since then, nothing.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

OMG! Don't use that word!! I read "she passed" and my heart sank!... I hope she starts pooping better soon... I dont like the blood either..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Trickyroo

I know !!!!! ^^^^ I was thinking the same thing !!!
Scared the poop out of me :shock:


----------



## Trickyroo

Im wondering if you lubed up a pinky and went in to see if you could feel anything there…..


----------



## Dayna

SORRY SORRY! I'll just say she pooped instead of passed. LOL I didn't even think.

We're now all obsessed with her pooping. My husband keeps walking by her and saying "are you pooping?".


----------



## happybleats

It can take a bit of fluids to get it moving...I fill them up slowly until a little begins to squirt back out...then massage the tummy....

I agree with Goat hiker on MOM...I hate giving stimulants to babies, unless like she said its life threatening.. Keep with the enemas and a little karo in the bottle...

is she eating fine? active?


----------



## Dayna

I don't really know how much a baby goat poops though! As of right now, she's had 8 ounces of milk. She's digesting it and her stomach goes down about a couple hours after feeding. It's only 345pm so there is still plenty of feedings left in the day but I'm worried about making it worse. I though milk caused diarrhea! lol Maybe I should give her some milk replacer that is famous for diarrhea.


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> It can take a bit of fluids to get it moving...I fill them up slowly until a little begins to squirt back out...then massage the tummy....
> 
> I agree with Goat hiker on MOM...I hate giving stimulants to babies, unless like she said its life threatening.. Keep with the enemas and a little karo in the bottle...
> 
> is she eating fine? active?


yeah she's a happy big eater! And getting more and more energy and walking around okay. She keeps trying to poop though and I can tell it's bothering her.


----------



## Dayna

I've been doing the dishsoap water enema. Maybe I should switch to the oil and water enema?


----------



## happybleats

I prefer the oil...it seems to worm better and less irritation on the bum....the oil lines the intestines and helps keep things moving even after you are done...

I kowyou are most likely joking..but dont switch to replacer lol...


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> I prefer the oil...it seems to worm better and less irritation on the bum....the oil lines the intestines and helps keep things moving even after you are done...
> 
> I kowyou are most likely joking..but dont switch to replacer lol...


I was half joking! I feel like if she could just poop a realllllly good poop then she would feel like a million bucks and just thrive.

I'll try the oil one in the bathtub and hopefully the floodgates of her intestines will open and she'll have lots of poop come out!


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## Trickyroo

Praying for her pooping


----------



## nannysrus

Are you using warm water enema?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

I would switch to oil in fear too much soap would dry her out. (It probably won't but soap "kills" my skin so it always worries me using it)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I am using warm water. I imagine it's leaking out of her butt when she lays down. So I was going to just try the warm water/oil. I cup of water to 1 tbls oil? Swoosh and squirt?

Keep squirting in gently until some leaks back out and then massage tummy and wait?


----------



## nannysrus

Massaging her and keeping her warm will help get things going. Sometimes it takes a bit for the blockage to get hydrated enough to move on out. 

If you are using say 3 cc enema I would suck up 1/2 cc oil then 2 1/2cc water. Mixing a cup of water with oil won't really get you anywhere because the can't blend. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

I mix in warm water...it works fine...it can take 30 - 40 minutes to get results..massaging is important to help things along : )


----------



## nannysrus

And moving!!! Walking around is great for stimulating!!


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I got some selenium and vit E from the drug store.

Selenium 200mcg
E 200 iu

How much would I give her of each?


----------



## goathiker

1 selenium and 2 E's makes about half a dose of oral paste. Probably about right for her little self.


----------



## Trickyroo

How is she doing Dayna ?


----------



## toth boer goats

All good advice.

How are things?


----------



## Dayna

She didn't gain ANY weight yesterday. Still exactly the same at 5 pounds on an accurate kitchen digital scale.  I fed her a total of 13.5 ounces of milk yesterday. Each milk bottle had 1.2 cc of karo syrup and first morning bottle had half a scoop of probios. 

She was MUCH more lively this morning though. Almost refused to pee before her bottle and kept trying to get past all the barriers to get to me. Shes weak on her legs and falls easily but she keeps getting up and trying.

One small nuggest of hard poop after last nights enema. I did oil and warm water. I put 30cc's up in there. Does she just not have much poop because she's not eating that much? She seems to be straining sometimes.

I just don't know. It seems in some ways she's doing better, in others doing worse. So I still have no gut feeling on if she's going to make it or not.


----------



## Trickyroo

The more activity she has the better for her  So , since she has the will to try , means things are going in the right direction IMO.
Hopefully with the extra moving around will stimulate her to poop more.
I really feel that is the key here , idk….


----------



## happybleats

When My lamb was very impacted...I could not get much from an enema..my vet used a feeding tube..inserted up his little bum..then used a the syring to very slowly push the oil water in...it took quite a while but it finally unplugged him...Im not sure it if worked better or all the oil finslly kicked in lol..
Here is my suggestion...Stop milk. Just for 12 hours...replace with electros, add a bit of oil in that... I know its hard when you want her strong and growing...but she will stop digesting the fuller her bowels become....she needs a bit of rest...the electros will keep her hydrated and full....


----------



## janeen128

That's actually a pretty good plan Happybleats..;-) I'm trying to figure out when my kids started pooping pellets, because I'm thinking she still a bit young for pooping solid... I could be way wrong though..


----------



## janeen128

Are her eyes better?


----------



## Trickyroo

Yes ^^^ how are her eyes ? Totally forgot about that ..


----------



## happybleats

> I'm trying to figure out when my kids started pooping pellets, because I'm thinking she still a bit young for pooping solid.


Babies should begin to build berries by a week old...they will still be yellow and may be stuck together....but small little barries should be apparent....here is a link to show what baby poop should look like....always fun lol

http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.VDwWAtTF92A


----------



## Dayna

That's what her poop looks like, I thought that was constipation? Do you know how often she should be going poop?


----------



## nannysrus

Maybe she isn't constipated then??

I would think is she is really backed up you would slowly start to see her declining in energy, getting reluctant to move, abdomenal pain, refusing to eat, it would also cause pain if you were to massage her tummy.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

She does yell if I push too hard on her tummy. Maybe she's not as backed up as I was thinking but she's only been pooping with the enema and then only twice a day.

I just don't know. I'm very hesitant to pull her off milk and put her on electrolytes. I will if I have to though. I just am hesitant to do it.


----------



## nannysrus

The kitten I just rescued about a month ago went for a day or two prior to me taking him in without any food or milk. He was about 3 weeks old but he didn't poop at all for two days. On the third day he finally started pooping. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

this might be gross..but start saving her poop for the day...get a better idea how much she is actually pooping...it can be hard to know when its enough, some feel they should poop several minutes after each meal, some feel 3-4 times a day, but a constipated goat will begin to refuse bottle...stand hunched...cry in pain and strain to poop...sounds like to me you may have gotton things moving ?? if you feel she is pooping then dont stop milk...but if you feel she is not pooping enough then do stop milk...just for 12 hours at first..see if it helps


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> this might be gross..but start saving her poop for the day...get a better idea how much she is actually pooping...it can be hard to know when its enough, some feel they should poop several minutes after each meal, some feel 3-4 times a day, but a constipated goat will begin to refuse bottle...stand hunched...cry in pain and strain to poop...sounds like to me you may have gotton things moving ?? if you feel she is pooping then dont stop milk...but if you feel she is not pooping enough then do stop milk...just for 12 hours at first..see if it helps


Not gross, I can do that~!


----------



## Trickyroo

Do you think maybe Dayna can stop milk for a shorter time if she feels she has to ? Im not questioning your advice Cathy , but 12 hours seems a like a lot to me , for such a tiny peanut….
Im just curious


----------



## happybleats

> Im not questioning your advice Cathy


 Question away!! lol...it will either give a chance for expanantion or give me pause to rethink it!!! but to answer

It would depend on how plugged up she is...12 hours is a start point..it takes time for the last milk to be digested..then a rest period of electros to help move things along..she may stop milk and in 4, 6 or 8 hours baby poops real well.then she could give milk again..it all depends on baby and what she does : )


----------



## Trickyroo

Thanks for explaining that  :hugs:


----------



## Dayna

Okay, just gave her more milk. No poop yet, another enema 27 cc's of warm water and oil. I put a couple drops of oil in her bottle. I figure it won't hurt so maybe it'll help? She has SO MUCH ENERGY, she practically ran to me today for her bottle. This is the most steady on her feet I've seen yet! I set up a slightly larger area in the living room for her to stretch her legs even more!

The whiteish on her eyes is receding from the outside in. I can now see some brown eyes on the outside of that white!!!!! I'm thinking thats a VERY good sign. All of it is very good signs, except the not pooping yet today...  I will make a decision by tonight about the withholding milk. I'm going to give her today to get some poop out.


----------



## Dayna

Well she's pooping. I damn near wrote the other P work. hehe

She hadn't pooped ALL DAY LONG and I was like lets just see what happens if I keep putting warm water with oil, massage. Warm water with oil, massage. So I kept putting more and more in there, then all of a sudden some stuff started shooting out. 3-4 small VERY HARD rock like pieces of poop and then some softer stuff. Still only like maybe a half a tablespoon max but it's coming out.

Should I keep doing the warm water and oil over and over and see if more comes out? Or should I wait and see how she does pooping more on her own?


----------



## happybleats

congrats!!! SUCCESS!! lol...i would give her some rest now...the oil is still there, lining her intestines...see if she keeps pooping on her own : )


----------



## Trickyroo

I think that if that worked well , why not try some more and see if you can loosen more up. She must feel better just getting that bit out 
I doubt the oil and water and massage is going to hurt her any :shrug:
Your doing great Dayna


----------



## mayia97420

I would wait a bit since some soft stuff came out but I am very cautious


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well now that the hard stuff came out, she should be just fine. I would wait and see. Glad it came out


----------



## Trickyroo

Ha , we posted at the same time Cathy  I thought she would push out what was put in , :shrug: Such good news  
Who woulda thought we would all be so happy about poop :wahoo:


----------



## happybleats

we goat people do get worked up about poop lol..


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Yay! Poop! :lol: just thought I would add to the excitement!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I've never been so happy to see poop in my life. I'm trying not to care too much but I'm emotionally invested in this goat.


----------



## Trickyroo

LOL ! Understandable Dayna , its hard not to though


----------



## happybleats

I agree...its hard not to grow attached...we do all we can and if we are successful then wonderful...if not, then we know we did all we could...you are doing a wonderful job!!


----------



## Dayna

A little bit more came out while she was napping. Another couple HARD AS ROCK chunks. No wonder her tummy hurt!

Do you think this is the result of being dehydrated from not getting any fluids/food/milk/water/etc for 24 hours before I got her? Or the shock to her system from all the changes?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Mostly like from not getting any fluids for that 24 hour time frame, her intestines absorbed all the water they could from it, that most likely why her poop is coming out that hard.


----------



## janeen128

Yay!!! She should feel lots better now..;-) Great Job Dayna!!!


----------



## Trickyroo

Can we name her yet ? :shrug: Yay for more poop :stars:


----------



## Dayna

I named her a couple days ago. Myra. For "My miracle" and "SheRa princess of Power" hahahahaha


----------



## Dayna

Here she is in my lap. She's getting lots of snuggles.


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh my goodness , that is just cuteness overload 
I love her name too , its perfect for her


----------



## Dayna

Here is a video from today.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203704434106080


----------



## Trickyroo

Awwww , she is just so cute and the little sounds she makes , lol. Im in love  She sure has bonded with you ! Her eyes don't look as cloudy to me either !


----------



## kc8lsk

Sweet she's doing a lot better GOOD JOB:stars:


----------



## Dayna

She still seems pretty blind. I'm wondering how a blind goat can make it's way in the world without putting it's eye out on branches and stuff.


----------



## kc8lsk

They can function she will adapt


----------



## Trickyroo

Yeah , i have no idea or have i heard any stories about a blind goat. But don't give up hope , her eyes may still clear up . Im wondering if we can get more advice on what else you can do. We need a vet on here !


----------



## Dayna

I have a good friend who is a vet and she said you're guys cumulative advice is better than her networking with other vets. She's a dog and cat vet. She says you guys are spot on.


----------



## kc8lsk

I have heard stories about blind goats that got a friend to help them thier friend acted like a seeing eye dog and kept them out of trouble or there is always a small pasture to themselves (and a small friend)


----------



## happybleats

Im wondering is she might need vit. A ...



> Inadequate amounts of Vitamin A in a goat's diet can lead to thick nasal discharge, *difficulty in seeing or blindness*, respiratory diseases, susceptibility to parasites, scruffy hair coat, and diarrhea. Kids with coccidiosis need more Vitamin A because they have reduced intestinal absorption of nutrients. Adults are likely to be less fertile and more susceptible to diseases if they do not have adequate levels of this essential fat-soluble vitamin


----------



## Trickyroo

Thats great to know Dayna  Shows ya , this is the bestest place 

Oh thats great ! At least there is hope  I guess having a small pasture for a blind goat and keeping things out that could hurt her.
I bet she can get by just fine with the right person , which is you Dayna


----------



## Trickyroo

What about a triple antibiotic ?


----------



## happybleats

the neospordin is a triple antibiotic...I believe she is using that...: )


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh that's right , i forgot


----------



## Dayna

I gave her some power punch today, that has vit a right? Let me go look.


----------



## Dayna

yes 20,000.00 iu per ounce


----------



## Dayna

I just got the Power Punch today and I gave it to her twice per the instructions on the bottle. 1.5 cc's two times. It says I can give up to three times a day. 1 ounce per 100 pounds or 30 cc's per 100 pounds. Since she's 5 pounds that's 1.5 cc's.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Well idk anything about power punch but you said her eyes are looking better so it must be helping right?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

Awe!!! Cool video;-) She is so adorable.... Hoping now the vitamin A in the power punch will help with the eyes...


----------



## cecekingskid

Not sure if this will help but since other are suggesting triple antibiotic ointment (neosporin) if you have LA-200 you can make an ophthalmic solution to put (drops) into her eyes. I haven't done it but an awesome vet on a goat facebook group posted it yesterday. In a 3cc syringe, draw up .1cc of LA-200 and then 1.9cc of water. Then put 2-3 drops per eye 3 times per day.


----------



## mayia97420

She keeps making progress so you are doing the right things.


----------



## Dayna

I think the neosporin is helping her eyes because it's keeping her lashes from scraping her eyes anymore. Maybe I'm wrong but since it's working I'm going to keep doing it. It could be the vit a, it could be anything I guess. But since it seems to be getting better I'll keep on keeping on!

I looked at her right eye today and it only has a small amount of white left, I can see a good portion of her brown iris now!


----------



## Dayna

She's not pooped since yesterdays enema. I should give her another one right?


----------



## janeen128

I would...


----------



## happybleats

ye..I would give another enema...you want to keep it coming until she poops all by herself...once all the blockage is cleared she should be able to. Some babies with development issues can have sluggish intestins and may need help for a while...remember over or under feeding can cause constipation...Or runny bums..


----------



## Cactus_Acres

I have a human kid of mine with sluggish intestines, and he gets a routine dose of meds to keep stuff moving. If not, he starts taking up residence in our bathroom. I am looking to go natural with him, but he still needs that help to keep things moving. I would assume it sort of is the same thing for goats.


----------



## Dayna

Okay I did another one and some MORE hard hard poops came out with some softer yellowish poo. But it was all mixed together. Very little actually came out, like maybe a teaspoon of poop. So I put more oil and water up there, massaged again and now she's resting. Hopefully more will come out in a few minutes. Poor kid.

So I have a couple vitamin questions.

1. I'm giving her 1.5 cc's of power punch up to three times daily so do I need to give her anymore selenium or vitamin B? 
2. Is there any chance the probiotics that I give her in her morning bottle contributing to her not being able to poop?


----------



## ThreeHavens

Do the hard poops look like little bits of rice? I have heard that selenium deficiency can cause that in kids. If you have given her selenium already, hopefully that will help.


----------



## Dayna

No they are almost orange in color. Orangish yellowish brown.


----------



## ThreeHavens

But they are hard? If you haven't, I'd give some selenium.


----------



## Dayna

Yeah, I gave her a human selenium pill with two vit e capsules. Should I do it again? And yeah, those chunks of poop are rock hard. Even when they are sliding out in the oil/water you can tell it's hurting her. It's mixed in with normal poop. I feel so sad for her, but she does seem to be doing so much better. She is up 7 ounces from yesterday. 5 pounds 7 ounces today.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I wouldn't want to OD, but I think if it is the selenium, I'd want to give her a BO SE shot. If you don't have those available I'd be tempted to give her another of what you gave her ... Anyone else on here want to give input on that?


----------



## goathiker

That equaled half a dose of the oral paste, I figured that would be enough for a 5 lb. kid.


----------



## Dayna

yeah I do not have BOSE available.


----------



## mayia97420

I know you can give too much selenium - she appears to be getting better without it but maybe the vit e to help her use the selenium in her system??? Probios usually helps them poop normally not stop them up. Those hard lumps formed while she was getting no food or fluids and will need to come out. Slow and gentle unless she starts getting worse.


----------



## happybleats

I agree...keep what you are doing at a slow pace...it may take some time to work out all those rock hard poops...


----------



## Dayna

She's started making it clear when she needs to poop and needs help. As weird as that sounds. She stands up, scrunches up her stomach (think scared cat) and starts crying loudly. 

the last two times she's done this I've given her an enema and shes relaxed visibly during it and pooped out a couple hard nuggets each time.

I know someone on here said twice a day for enemas, but is there a reason for that? I can never get very much out at one time. And the hard poops keep coming (mixed with regular softer stool). For a couple days while trying to work out the hard lumps in there can I just do it when she starts crying and needs it? Even if it's more than twice a day?


----------



## happybleats

yes..for now you can do it more often as you see fit...you are the one who sees her and deal with her...trust yourself...you are doing an amazing job!


----------



## goathiker

Cathy, what do you think about mixing a spoonful of baby prune juice with an ounce of electrolyes and giving to her once a day?


----------



## Dayna

Here is a just now picture of her eye. I really think they are looking better.


----------



## happybleats

> Cathy, what do you think about mixing a spoonful of baby prune juice with an ounce of electrolyes and giving to her once a day


Ive never tried that...but i might help...

Dayna..in the pic the eye has a red spot...is that just in the pic? are her lashes off the eye lid now?


----------



## nannysrus

Prune juice will really help to get her going. 

So will pineapple. (Don't know if goats can have pineapple?)

Are you giving her anything by mouth to help her go?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I think it's a reflection. And they seem to be not making her eyes worse, I'm still putting the neosporin in there.


----------



## ThreeHavens

You're doing a great job with her, she's so blessed to have you.


----------



## happybleats

good...red scared me a bit lol...are you rolling the lids down several times a day....if the lashes are still inward..the neosprodin will help protect the eye some but willnot totally heal until the irritation is removed..


----------



## Dayna

yeah I've been rolling them down a lot. She hates it. lol


----------



## happybleats

good job...you are doing fantasitc with her...


----------



## Dayna

Well I still don't know if she'll make it.

But I wanted to give a HUGE thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I know for a fact she'd be dead by now without all the great help and advice I got here.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Did you ever get a hold of a tube for the enema? Like a feeding tube? If the hard rocks are further up there it might help. We always use red rubber tubes when doing enemas at the animal hospital


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## ThreeHavens

I'm praying for this little girl.


----------



## NubianFan

I think she is going to make it, she has fought like Hades this long and has someone in her corner fighting very hard right along side her. I don't think at this point bad eyes or a few hard poops are gonna stop her.


----------



## mayia97420

me too - she is a little fighter


----------



## janeen128

I think she's going to pull through. She might have some ongoing problems with the sight issue, but she is definitely a little fighter, and a cute little thing.. Your doing an amazing job with her;-) Praying as well...


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna I could mail you a feeding tube if you want , just let me know.


----------



## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> Dayna I could mail you a feeding tube if you want , just let me know.


Thats so sweet of you. I can buy one, in fact I have some soft tubing that I've used for avian crop feeding that would work. I'm hesitant to shove something further into her intestines than I am.

I'm going to keep trying this for another day or so unless she gets worse, then I'll tube her butt enema in a heartbeat.


----------



## Trickyroo

Anytime  I wish i could help you more ! 
Yeah , i was thinking maybe for the butt enema. Poor thing , she doesn't know what your planning for her tiny bum


----------



## happybleats

although an enema cant be fun for her ( or any one lol) Its not painful...they are usually more irritated at the fact we hold them still..lol


----------



## Trickyroo

Yeah , it would hurt me more then them if i had to give it , lol.


----------



## Trickyroo

When i went for my colonoscopy , i would have been more then happy to share some of that yummy chalky stuff :roll:


----------



## nannysrus

Oh trickyroo! Isn't that stuff just the greatest! LoL 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Trickyroo

Umm , no :ROFL:


----------



## Dayna

Ugh been there had that. I'm wayyyy past due but I almost am refusing to get another one. Not unless I have symptoms that need addressed.


----------



## Dayna

A quick update video from tonight.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203712458106675


----------



## janeen128

Soooo CUTE!!;-)


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I had a buckiling with inverted eyelids this spring that got as bad as her. He even had a stitch. It took a good 3 weeks for the cloudiness to go away and he was fine. I think yours will be too. Just make sure when you roll her eyelid, that you see all the lashes flop out and not be against her eye. Sometimes it looks like you have rolled very far, but then all of a sudden, her comes the eyelashes, where before it was just lower lid hairs.


----------



## mayia97420

You are doing great she looks stronger and she is walking better. Prayers and healing energy to you and her.


----------



## Cactus_Acres

Since you keep seeing some soft with hard stools, I am going to take a guess that she has some major blockage still in there. In humans, you often see someone who is impacted get diarrhea, of all things, since it is the only thing that can get by the blockage. So what do people in that situation do? They assume they have diarrhea and treat for that, and the problem appears to go away, only to come back again since the actual problem is still there. I wiould go to the tube. For one thing, you can get it further in there and closer to the actual blockage, which should help get it loosened up. You are doing a great job reading her body language and signs that she needs help.


----------



## Dayna

I'm really scared to put a tube up her butt. I mean REALLY SCARED. Is there any other option? I got a few more nuggets out this morning. Can I just keep doing enemas over and over till the blockage is cleared? Is there ANYTHING I can give her orally?


----------



## Dayna

Maybe like trickyroo said and do some baby prunes?


----------



## janeen128

I think prune juice would be good for her.


----------



## kc8lsk

You can also try dark karo syrup at 1 tablespoon to 2 ounces of water in a bottle


----------



## Dayna

whats the difference between dark and light karo?


----------



## kc8lsk

dark karo is what the doctor told me to give my premie twins 14 years ago to help them poop when they were constipated i don't know what's different about it but it worked for them


----------



## goathiker

The difference is in the sweetener. Light Karo is high frutose corn syrup which isn't very good for anyone. Dark Karo is sweetened with refiner's sugar which is a type of molasses.


----------



## happybleats

You can keep doing the enema....dont stress over using a tube...adding the dark kayo sryup or prune juice may help as well : )


----------



## Cactus_Acres

You are using a syringe, right, which means you are getting the tiny tip of it sitting in the sphincter muscle and trying to get liquid in further. If you are afraid of the sheer size of the tube, I would go find some medical grade tubing that was smaller with smooth edges. One that you could hook up a syringe to and push in the fluids very gently. For starters only going a tiny ways in (I mean, to get an accurate temp on a goat, you have to shove a thermometer a couple inches into their rectum, so you could get it in there a little at a time).


----------



## goathiker

I believe she's using a bird feeding syringe, the neck on these are soft and an inch and a half or so long.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

If you can go to a medical supply store, buy a pediatric feeding tube. They are very tiny in diameter- like the size of the tube that holds ink in pens. They are totally flexible- like a thick string. The tube will follow along her intestine without hurting her. A regular luer-lock syringe will attach to it. Lube the length you want to go in, maybe 1-3 inches, then slowly slide it in. If you get resistance, squirt some liquid to move the stool out of the way. If her bowel is too blocked, this is necessary. She will thank you for it. This is how we do pediatric barium enemas, except we put all 8-10 inches inside.


----------



## Dayna

Okay, I couldn't find my avian feeding tube but I do have a butterfly needle with a soft tube on it for sub q fluids. So I cut the needle part off and it's got the end that hooks up to the syringe. I burnt the cut part to make the edges round and soft.

I will likely try this tubing as it's super soft and small.


----------



## Dayna

Well I put that tube in pretty darn far and only got one small chunk out.


----------



## ThreeHavens

Well at least you got something out, that's good!


----------



## Dayna

Yeah, she's just not wanting to eat as much so I think that means that the blockage is getting worse? I don't know. I gave her some baby prune puree in her milk too.


----------



## happybleats

It may take several trial runs to get whats really stuck...give her rest between...allow the oil to work a bit...how is she other wise? still eating and peeing fine..good energy?


----------



## happybleats

oops we posted at the same time...shes not eating as much...how about energy??


----------



## Dayna

energy is about the same except you can tell her tummy hurts so she's not wanting to be picked up as much as she was. This is really breaking my heart, I feel so bad for her.


----------



## Trickyroo

I think your going to help her a lot by using the tube , JMO.
Take it slow , give her a rest , and let the oil do its job like Cathy said.
I think once you get her loosened up , she's going to be fine 
Is there anything a vet would do here differently Cathy ? Other then put her out and work on her...


----------



## janeen128

I'm wondering if you could give her a children's laxative to try to help... She's probably also getting sore from the enemas too... Poor little thing... She's a fighter though...!


----------



## Trickyroo

Yeah i know , but what I'm afraid of is the poor thing hurting her self straining  Gosh i wish we could just get her past this faster


----------



## happybleats

you might have to resort to Milk of magnesia...I would give another day first with the tubing enema see how she does...the longer she stays plugged the more toxins will build, the MOM will flush those toxins and hopefully clean her out..1/4 cc per pound will be needed


----------



## Dayna

My husband really wants to know for real if we should try the milk replacer or cows milk. He's wondering if she's having a problem digesting the goats milk. Sounds strange but it happens with human babies.

If she's not looking better by tomorrow I will consider the MOM. How dangerous is it in a baby?


----------



## janeen128

I wouldn't use a replacer or change milk on her now, but that's me. Cows milk would be much harder to digest... It's not that she's having a hard time digesting per say, she's just backed up... I would do the MOM as per the dosage from Happybleats... Be prepared for a lot to come out though... If she is a lot of pain I would actually do it now....


----------



## goathiker

MOM is used in tiny human babies and the dose suggested is right for her age and size...


----------



## Dayna

How long does it take to work? It's 920pm


----------



## Dayna

I just dosed her.


----------



## goathiker

8 hours girl, sorry you've got some time to wait now. I would check on her during the night myself.


----------



## happybleats

I agree..dont switch her milk....goats milk is the very best for her...switching now may cause other issues..once you get all that poop out she will feel better and do better for you...MOM can cause runy poop...let it run its course...its doing it job...: ) best wishes


----------



## ThreeHavens

Goats have the easiest time digesting goat's milk - replacer can cause issues in even healthy babies. I'd keep her on the goat's milk.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

How is she today? Hoping for a ton of poop! Lol


----------



## janeen128

Yep, just checking in... Hoping she was able to get unplugged.


----------



## Dayna

no poop yet. It's been 11 hours since the MOM.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I would reccomend continuing enemas ...  :hug: But you know your girl better than I do.


----------



## Dayna

What about a second dose of MOM? Or would that be too much for her system?


----------



## janeen128

Is she still in pain? If so this is what I would do. Give another enema, wait a few hours to see if she goes by herself, if not I would give another dose of MOM... In the mean time keep giving prune juice.. I'm wondering if there is such a thing as baby suppositories, not. Sure but that might be better.


----------



## Trickyroo

Scary stuff  I really don't know what would be best :/


----------



## Dayna

SUCCESS! I gave her another enema and this is the most she's pooped in one day!

Those poops are REALLY hard still. I'm hoping that this opened the floodgates of poop. LOL My husband who has been doubting that she has a blockage is now quiet about her not needing enemas.  hahahahahaha He also said he's never using that orange towel again.


----------



## Trickyroo

Aww , yay for poop ! Gosh i hope it opened those gates too ! I wish we could magically zap a 
xray and see if and how much she is backed up….poor baby . Give her a hug and kiss for me


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Yay! I hope she goes like that several times a day now.


----------



## Dayna

And she pooped some more! YAYYYYYYY!


----------



## mayia97420

yay !!!!!


----------



## janeen128

Normal poop pellets are hard so I'm just guessing if she is pooping hard pellets, that might be normal.. Now here's hoping it will continue;-) YAY for poop;-) So weird saying that;-)


----------



## Dayna

I've never seen goat pellets this hard. These are like rocks. Not like normal soft goat baby poops. With the prunes and the karo and MOM there should be softer poop anyway.


----------



## Summersun

Yay for POOP! I swear only horse, goat and other animal lovers can truly get excited for poop! Haha


----------



## SalteyLove

Does she seem more comfortable after this? It is so bizarre that they are so hard. I mean - I bet she got super dehydrated when she was at her worst, but that was 6 days ago! She should definitely be re-hydrated at this point. I'm very sorry I don't have anything to suggest for you to soften it up :/


----------



## ThreeHavens

Yayyy! Good good good. Keep it up, she needs to get those rock poops out. I have heard of rock poops from low selenium, and probably lack of food early on in her life contributed to it. :hug: You're amazing! I love this little baby ...


----------



## Dayna

She does seem more comfortable now, though she does keep straining and you can tell that is more. I will give her another enema this afternoon. I think I'll hold off on anymore MOM.

When do you guys think I could give her a bath. She smells to high heaven of urine and feces. I want to cuddle and hold her (and I am) but I'm having to do it with her totally wrapped in a towel and everytime I touch her my hands get all tacky and gross. I know that if her body temp goes down that'll crap up her digestion... which is why I've not bathed her yet. But man oh man it would be so nice to have a clean baby.


----------



## kc8lsk

Give her a bath in warm water dry her with a towel and use a hair drier on low


----------



## goathiker

I agree, as long as she doesn't stay wet too long she should stay warm.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I would think it would be okay to take a warm, slightly damp washcloth with a bit of dawn soap to lather her. I wouldn't get her wet, just a bit damp to clean her and dry right away. I'll let the others weigh in on the safety...

Haha, they posted before I did.


----------



## Dayna

I think I'm going to wait till she's pooping better. I'm just so scared to do ANYTHING at this point that might contribute to her not pooping. I like the wet washcloth idea to at least get her somewhat cleaner smelling. lol


----------



## ThreeHavens

That's what I've done for babies. I just use a tiny bit of soap, and a nice warm washcloth. It makes them more snuggly if they get yucky, haha! The warmth may be good for her tummy too.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I'd rub her dry afterwards just to be safe.


----------



## happybleats

LOL..That face she has after that poop!! Priceless...like shes looking back and saying " yep..I did that!!" LOL.

Keep up the good work and follow your gut...its been spot on!!!


----------



## Dayna

Here she is about an hour ago:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203723018650682


----------



## janeen128

Awe!! She is so cute;-)


----------



## happybleats

awe....she is so cute!!..still seem to struggle a bit seeing...hopefuly that too will improve soon..you are doing amazing with her!!


----------



## Dayna

yeah she doesn't seem to be able to see at all really. Her head weaves back and forth and she walks like she's going to run into something at any second.


----------



## happybleats

if she doesnt recover her eye sight...she will adapt...and still can be a happy camper...she will need a safe enviorment and a buddy. You can add a bell to the buddies collar, she can learn to follow his/her sound...It is amazing what you can teach a goat...if you can have a vet look at her eyes and see if there is something that can be done before permanent damage is done...


----------



## ThreeHavens

This little baby has stolen my heart big time. And YOU are amazing for caring for her!


----------



## Dayna

decided to send a pm instead.


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna , she looks really great ! You must be proud of yourself to have brought her this far and see how your hard work had helped her 
She is just precious , i think we are all in love with her 
I would hold off on the bath , but thats just me. Maybe some baby wipes ? I still say she is too delicate yet to change anything yet.
Im afraid to breath differently while reading this post !
Gosh , im so pulling for this little girl , as we all are 
Bless her heart , she is just a tiny little angel


----------



## janeen128

Curious Happybleats, if she turns out blind (still hoping she won't) but would a blind goat just live a normal life, and be able to be milked and such as long as she has a buddy? I'm assuming yes, but the thought is just so intriguing... 

I would give her a bath, and make sure a blow dry her all the way.. That also might make her feel better, but that's just my opinion..


----------



## Summersun

I know you didn't ask me, but yes a blind goat can live a normal life. She will probably need help kidding and be introduced to the babies. Babies probably need to wear bells and even still she may reject the kids. But as long as she trusts you, she should learn to be milked.


----------



## happybleats

> Curious Happybleats, if she turns out blind (still hoping she won't) but would a blind goat just live a normal life, and be able to be milked and such as long as she has a buddy? I'm assuming yes, but the thought is just so intriguing...


Yep I agree with summersun...she will live a normal life..just will need extra care in her surroundings...a good buddy and as summersun said...she may need a little assistance with kids when the time comes..thankfully mom works on smell and sounds more then sight when it comes to kids : )


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Her eyes are already looking better since you first got her. I wouldn't be surprised if she got all her vision back, young babies can heal remarkably well from injuries and loss of sight. 
But that's not a guarantee that she will gain her sight back, just that I think it is entirely possible...


----------



## wendylou

Awww... I just read this entire post and what a wonderful job you are doing with that cutie!!! I hope she is doing well!! More poops!!!


Wendy Lou


----------



## Dayna

My husband said "I'll do the dishes, you give that baby goat a bath". I really got the better deal!


----------



## janeen128

Awe!!! Now time for LOTS of snuggles. So cute..;-)


----------



## Dayna

Steve and I just had a talk. Myra will be staying with us if she is blind. We'll build her her own small area, interview goats and find her a gentle friend. He said no one would meet my expectations of owning a blind goat and that in 10 years we'd still be interviewing potential homes. HA! He knows me so well.

So that's that.


----------



## janeen128

I honestly think she'll be staying with you either way really;-) I know I wouldn't be able to put all the effort etc.. into a baby goat just to find her a new home..., it would take me her life time to search for that perfect home... Still hoping she will regain her sight though;-)


----------



## ThreeHavens

She's so precious! And I think it's a win win either way. If you keep her she'll be happy, and if you let her go I'm sure she'll be happy in a lovely home.  I've nursed kids back to health and had to let them go (even if I didn't want to) and it still was totally worth it. One of them (Little Guy) I still get updates on all the time and he looks amazing.  The other one, Xena, I still have, lol! 

Gosh if you were closer I'd be horribly tempted to have you fly her to me. :lol:


----------



## Dayna

Yeah, I wasn't planning on getting this goat or keeping her. I guess we'll have to see what happens. I was planning on drastically reducing my herd once kidding season is over in Feb/March and just keeping my saanens Cloud and Bonnie as pets, maybe Ballerine my half saanen half ND. Maybe Myra will be a similar size to Ballerine when she's fully grown? She's half nubian half nd. Nubian are similar in size to saanens right?

I've got until then to decide if I'm going to just get better fencing or if I'm going to sell off most the herd.


----------



## janeen128

I know what you mean... I am in the same boat here, with fences even too.. I hate the selling part though, I worry about all of them, if they are in really truly in good homes etc....


----------



## happybleats

Awe..shes so cute!!!...I think its great she is staying with you!!! you both deserve that...How old is your MINI Saanen? my F! mini saanen doe is as a large as my standard kids of her peers...not sure how big she will gt when grown...they are generally a medium size goat..


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> Awe..shes so cute!!!...I think its great she is staying with you!!! you both deserve that...How old is your MINI Saanen? my F! mini saanen doe is as a large as my standard kids of her peers...not sure how big she will gt when grown...they are generally a medium size goat..


My mini saanen is a year and a half old I think. She is still providing me with milk, her kids were born in early February.

She is about 90 pounds last time I weighed her.... Well my daughter weighed her lol I couldn't lift 90 pounds.


----------



## happybleats

I think getting a buddy close to her own age and size would be better...one who will totally bond with her...the older doe may accept and can even become best buddies but if Myra ends up blind..I think growing up with a friend will be safer and a more for sure relationship..


----------



## Dayna

I have some feral/nd mixes from Annabelle due any day now. I just noticed a bit of goo on her vulva, but her udder is still somewhat soft. But she's a ff. So who knows, since I don't have a bred date.


----------



## happybleats

that would be a perfect buddy...we will think pink!!! a kid to grow with her...goo is a pretty good sign thing are close...udder can fill right before delivery....HAPPY KIDDING!!!


----------



## janeen128

How is she?


----------



## Dayna

OH MY GOSH!!! I'm so glad you asked.  

I fed her a slightly bigger bottle as she's been digesting more and more each feeding and doing pretty well. So tonight I gave her 5 ounces! After her bottle, I gave her an enema. 

She shot out SO MUCH POOP. Then afterwards her demeanor changed slightly. She bounced. A couple times. She's still blind and can't see so she's still shy about moving around BUT SHE BOUNCED!!!!!!! She tossed her head that way that kids do and BOUNCED. I can't tell you how happy I am right now.


----------



## IvyMayPygmyGoats

Good luck with her, Praying for you! Also, her eyes, look like cataracts to me? So, she most likely won't be able to see at all, if it is this then unless you wanted to spend way much money (obviously only if she made it and was healthy) I think vets can scrape it? 

Molly


----------



## ThreeHavens

Oh my gosh, yayyy!! Remember to increase very slowly - tight tummy means too much. It's safer to have a bit less than a bit too much.  

I'm so glad to hear she hopped! That's a great sign.


----------



## mayia97420

yay!!!!!! bounce and poop lol


----------



## happybleats

Thats wonderful news!!! How exciting!! I agree with three heavens...watch for poochy tummy...


----------



## janeen128

Woohoo! So very glad to hear this... Great Job;-)


----------



## Dayna

I just noticed something interesting. She doesn't seem to put any real weigh on her back left leg/foot....


----------



## happybleats

how do the joints look? any swelling or heat? how does her belly button look


----------



## Dayna

joints look fine, though I noticed there is not the same amount of muscle tone as the other back leg. I had to get a flashlight to get a really good look at her belly button but it looks fine, looks like the hanging umbilical cord is ready to fall off.


----------



## happybleats

that is good...the last thing she needs to deal with is joint ill!...

shemay have some disability on that side...is it just the back leg or the front as well? is it the side she got any shots on?


----------



## Dayna

THAT'S IT! I just realized that I gave her a couple penG shots on that side. I tried to do them in a different spot each time since they seemed to bother her so much. 

Now I have less to worry about. I feel like I'm having to keep track of so many different things with her I'm losing my mind! Thank you.


----------



## happybleats

well at least you know why lol....its hard on little ones with tiny bodies to find a good spot...I pullup the skin between the shoulder and give the shot just off tothe side some....so hard when they are squirmy


----------



## Dayna

Yeah, I was having hard time finding any loose skin let alone an area big enough to inject into. She screamed bloody murder anytime the needle even started to touch her skin towards the end. I'm a calm shot giver, been doing it on various animals and people for years but she really shook me up with her screaming over the penG.


----------



## happybleats

I bet....I hate giving shots especially to babies...but I just keep in mind they need it lol


----------



## janeen128

Oh good;-)


----------



## wendylou

Such good news to know she is doing better day by day!! Yaaayyyy!!


Wendy Lou


----------



## Dayna

Myra update video! She's so happy!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203736553949056


----------



## happybleats

Awe,,so cute...!! she looks great Dayna!!!


----------



## ThreeHavens

That sends warm fuzzies all over my body. What a happy little kid.


----------



## mayia97420

love her little bounces - she is walking much better but still a little shaky- I wish I lived closer lol she is such a happy little baby


----------



## Dayna

I upped her intake to 5 ounces at a time. I'm still having to do enemas but I'm feeding her less often AND she's crying a LOT LESS. Her belly gets satisfied and she's not crying 30 minutes later for another bottle. 

She's also just over 6 pounds now (4.5 pounds when I brought her home on 10-9).


----------



## happybleats

shes growing well...

be careful feeding too much at once...at 6 pounds she needs 9.6 oz a day....just keep a close watch on her tummy...


----------



## Dayna

She seems to digest it so fast! She's getting 4 bottles a day, which is obviously more than what she needs, but her stomach isn't hard or poochy or anything. And she's digesting it and peeing and her stomach is sunken back in before I feed her again. She seem so much happier with this amount than the lesser amount.

The only thing really that needs to get fixed is the pooping.


----------



## ksalvagno

Go with your gut and feed what you feel you need to feed. I have always fed more than the 10%.


----------



## ThreeHavens

Good good! We can work on the pooping, she'll get stronger.  For now that's great progress. Someday you'll walk up to her and see a nice pile of poop she did all by herself, and that'll be another milestone.


----------



## janeen128

Awe, what a cutie pie;-)


----------



## Trickyroo

Follow you feelings , if you think she needs a bit more , give it.
But go really slow , we don't want her to regress , you've made so much progress with her , and she isn't pooping yet on her own , so thats what makes me cautious . But you are there with her and see her , so you need to do what you feel she needs. We all want the very best for her , she's our baby too  Well , you know what i mean , lol..


----------



## happybleats

> And she's digesting it and peeing and her stomach is sunken back in before I feed her again. She seem so much happier with this amount than the lesser amount.


Im in no way questioning your care :: you and she are doing great...just saying be careful and watch her tummy. some kids do need more, some less. 10% is just a starting point...


----------



## Dayna

Oh gosh, I didn't think that at all. I was just stating what was happening with her stomach for people reading this thread down the road. I was trying to explain in very descriptive terms what her stomach was doing so that someone else didn't think that it was just automatic to feed X amount to X size goat. 

I know I've learned a lot by reading old threads, so I figure someone will come across this someday and as many descriptive terms as possible will help them decide what they should do.

It was so fun today watching her play a little bit. Hopping as much as she could hop in the living room. Tweaking her little head a bit, turning her body sideways, that sort of thing. Even my hubby who has been pretty sure she is not going to make it said today "hmmm, maybe she WILL survive, we have a house goat..." hahahahahaha

I'm working tomorrow at my friends chicken farm processing chickens from 7am to 3pm so my hubby will be in charge of her all day.  I'm sure he'll do fine.


----------



## happybleats

> "hmmm, maybe she WILL survive, we have a house goat..." hahahahahaha


one word for him....Diapers!!! lol


----------



## Dayna

A couple pics from tonight:


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

I'm so glad she's doing so well! I can't watch the videos so I appreciate the pix! Love those ears! And her eyes look so much better! You are doing so great with her!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

Awe!!;-)


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Looks like good progress on the eyes too! She is coming around. Good job!


----------



## happybleats

I agree...her eyes look sooooo much better....does she seem to see out of them yet?


----------



## Trickyroo

So happy to see and hear she is improving  Well done Dayna :hi5:
Give her a hug and kiss for me  Her eyes really look so much better !


----------



## wendylou

Ohhhh her ears are fabulous!!!!! Gah!!!!! I just want to grab her through my phone and smother her with kisses!!!!! 


Wendy Lou


----------



## Dayna

A setback today. She refused to take a bottle from hubby when I was out processing chickens. She cried ALL. DAY. LONG.

As soon as she heard my voice she started screaming and screaming. Hubby handed me the bottle he'd been trying to give her off and on for two hours and she ate it like she was starving.

What the heck am I supposed to do? I work processing chickens at a friends chicken farm on occasion.


----------



## nannysrus

Make him wear your clothes so he smells like you (sorry dayna hubby)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

Or wrap one of your shirts around her bottle so she smells you and not him


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## goathiker

Or take her to work with you.


----------



## happybleats

yep....or he can begin while you are home, sharing in her care...help her bond with him as well...we have kids here that nurse on two moms...theirs and another who calls them...so it can be done.

PS this kind of set back we can handle ::


----------



## Dayna

He said he tried the shirt thing and she just chewed on my shirt like a pacifier and still refused the bottle. She's gotten more and more clingy. Which is fine, she lives in the house right now. But I wonder how I'm going to teach her that she's a goat? Pretty much she's crying unless she's near me so I'm letting her just "free range" the house and cleaning up pee as I find it. I have hard floors so it's not a huge issue (unless you miss one and are wearing socks, YUCK).

Her back leg is still hurting and she's still not putting weigh ton it, how long do you think it'll take for the PenG soreness to wear off?


----------



## Dayna

Still no pooping. Only with intense enemas. 

Should I do another dose of MOM? I've only given her one. Her tummy is hurting.


----------



## Dayna

I decided her tummy was hurting enough that I wanted to try MOM again so I dosed her 1.5 cc's. She weighs just slightly over 6 pounds now.


----------



## janeen128

Hmmm, I'm thinking she still has a blockage somewhere... Are you still giving prune juice and karo? Hoping that this will indeed get cleared up soon..


----------



## Dayna

Yeah I think she might.... She keeps pushing large hard chunks out with normal soft pellets. So things are moving and not backing up too far, but still... I want this resolved so she can grow and play and be healthy. Tonight after pushing a large chunk of poop out she started bouncing around in joy. It was cute, but it made me really realize how owie her tummy must be feeling the rest of the time that pooping makes her jump for joy.


----------



## Cactus_Acres

Just a thought, but is she getting any access to roughage? She should be old enough to start showing some interest in it at least. I am wondering if she needs to get some fiber in her system. At her age, Bree's boys were starting to test and try various foods, like Bree's grain and hay.


----------



## janeen128

That might be helpful too. She can't see so I wonder how you would go about doing that.. Maybe just put some green leaves/hay in front of her. My babies typically started showing interest at 2 weeks..


----------



## Dayna

She's been tasting some alfalfa hay but won't eat it yet. Maybe I'll grab some orchard grass and gran for her to try.

No poop.

She did find her nubian lungs though! Now I know what my hubby was talking about yesterday. When she was ready for her bottle.... lets just say I've never heard a baby goat scream quite so loudly at such a high ear piercing pitch! hehe


----------



## happybleats

lol....they can get loud!! 
I know the last thing you want to hear is "cut her milk" But you may need to back down some...too much can be hard to digest and cause constipation...I know she will give those lungs a work out...but you can give electros between milk bottles to help fill her up some ....


----------



## Dayna

Why does she have normal poop mixed in with the hard poops? I was thinking she isn't "currently" constipated but has some old poop in her intestines? I'm not really sure, as I've never dealt with anything like this in humans or animals. Even my kiddo was a good pooper. lol 

The "normal" poops are yellowish brown and small little balls. They look like that picture that was posted of normal poop. The other stuff that comes out on occasion is 3-5x the size and dark brownish orange and very hard. I think that's whats causing the tummy aches and the trouble pooping. 

I don't know. The dose of MOM has done nothing. I wish it would just push out all the hard stuff already!


----------



## milkmaid

I'm SO happy to see that she's hanging in there! Keep up the good work!


----------



## happybleats

Oh the mysteries of poop!!...Im surprised she is not pooping on her own now...but with such a hard start on life...she may just have sluggish intestines...might try dosing her a bit of olive oil orally...maybe 2 cc's and give it time to work from that end...then do another enema with oil and warm water to work the other...I feel if we can just get it all out she would be good but again since her system is sluggish...shes not pushing out all the poop and it becomes rock hard and clumped..


----------



## Dayna

Does anyone know how long the milk takes to become poop coming out the end? Like on a normal baby goat? 2 hours 12 hours 24 hours? lol

I can give her olive oil orally no problem. She'll eat anything I give her. I wish I had a magic wand.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Has she been getting any probiotics? That might help her digest better. And for the MOM I would be tempted dose every couple hours until you see her going on her own, just to flush everything out.


----------



## Dayna

I can dose her every couple hours? Earlier in this post everyone made me scared to use MOM. lol

I dosed her last night so I will dose her again. I really want her pooping on her own. And yes, she gets probiotics everyday with her morning bottle.


----------



## goathiker

After this thread got started I did some reading on MOM and it is used with tiny human babies.


----------



## nannysrus

How much mom are you giving her?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

MOM can be dosed every couple hours until you see loose stools


----------



## Dayna

I'm giving her 1.5 cc's as the dose listed on here was 1/4cc per pound. I just dosed her again and will dose her every two hours today till I see some poop on her own.


----------



## wendylou

Wondering how things are going.... Hope better.... 


Wendy Lou


----------



## Dayna

No poops. I dosed her at 730, 930. 1130, and getting ready to dose her again now so 130.


----------



## happybleats

I owuld give another enema...might open the flood gates!!


----------



## janeen128

I'm with Happybleats.


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

In doing some research...after the kid goat can no longer absorb any nutrients from colustrum...at about 18 to 36 hours post birth the intestinal structure of the goat changes...the entire epithelial lining is replaced in this process. If the goat were dehydrated during this critical time im wondering if something went awry during this process leaving some of the original " hyperabsorbative" epithelium behind causing portions of her intestine to remove too much water from her faeces..resulting in reoccuring blockages....not a good thought but i have a hunch something else is going on here at this point


----------



## happybleats

interesting thought hallsthirdacrefarm!...


----------



## Dayna

Interesting but depressing thought. Hmmmm. I'm going to research some more. If I can get her pooping without enemas I can manage a sluggish gut with medications I bet. I cannot have a goat that only poops with enemas though, I don't even know how that would work out when the rumen starts up?


----------



## Trickyroo

I think she is getting better Dayna , she wasnt able to poop on her own now she is pushing poop out . she has had set backs and you have helped her through them . Your going to figure it out , what works with her best . I still feel she is improving , even with this setback.
I personally feel she has a "invisible" limit to how much milk she can digest and poop out. Maybe like you said introducing a bit of grains and grasses will help straighten her out again. I know your going to get her through this and she will thrive :hug:


----------



## ThreeHavens

Once her poops turn to berries, I'd think this would resolve. You may need to give enemas for longer than you'd like to but I bet with some nourishment and maybe some help getting her gut back into shape, she'll be pooping on her own eventually.


----------



## happybleats

I agree... I feel this is something she will out grow...you have done a wonderful job with her care so far!! Keep it up and trust yourself...and as Tricky said..


> I personally feel she has a "invisible" limit to how much milk she can digest and poop out


. I too believe she needs to cut some milk...she needs time to digest and poop.....too much milk can make her gut sluggish...bottle babies will scream as if starving, but you know shes not  add alfalfa and hay, leaves and vines see if she will nibble on those and begin building that rumen.....


----------



## Dayna

I have cut back on her milk. 

I did an enema and she pooped out a LOT of poop. However, I can feel a bulge in her intestines and that worries me, a lot.


----------



## happybleats

where is the bulge?..there is the cecum ...not sure how big her will be at her age..its just in front of her hip..where the large and small intestines meet..


----------



## ThreeHavens

Is the bulge in her tummy?


----------



## toth boer goats

Yes, where is the bulge located?


----------



## Dayna

You can feel the bulge feels like a tube. It is on her side in front of her right back leg. It feels the same as it did last night, it is new, wasn't there before last nights enema.


----------



## nannysrus

I wonder if she has a blockage that her body is passing? 

If so you will have too giving enemas till her body pushes it out of her system. Worse case The blockage becomes impassable and surgery would be required to move it. 

Keep her as hydrated as possible, keep doing enemas twice a day. Keep her intestines moving. 

I don't know what else it could be. Sorry in not much help 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

On an interesting note there was a LOT of poop that came out last night during her enema and she danced and danced and danced after. Cracked me up.

She's blocked in the kitchen right now and has alfalfa hay, orchard grass and sweet cob and she's prancing around dancing in the hay... nibbling a little bit but otherwise dancing and happy. I figure that's a good sign that she's so active and happy.


----------



## Dayna

here is a quick vid I just took. Nothing exciting but you can see she's still limping on that back leg.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203758735783588


----------



## janeen128

It might be the last of the blockage that is bulging. I say once that is past she will probably poop on her own. It might have been further up in the intestinal track to feel before, now it might just be breaking up etc... If she is acting happy and playful, yep good sign;-)


----------



## Dayna

I hope you are right! I hesitated getting out of bed this morning, I didn't want to find a dead Myra. So I pretended to yell at the dogs till I heard her crying for her bottle. I know, I'm a weanie, but I was worried her intestines would have ruptured or something.


----------



## happybleats

she is so cute...seems to me the poop is breaking up and she soon will be blockage free...fingers crossed

on her leg..where on her leg did you give the shot? there is a nerve that runs down the back of the leg..if you hit that when you gave a shot ( it happens) it may have some swelling there....also check her hip and leg, knee all the way down for any swelling or heat....


----------



## Scottyhorse

My guess too is that the lump you feel the a blockage. I don't think a growth or something of the sort could pop up that fast, though it is possible, and could be why she has trouble pooping. Hopefully not though, my bet is it's just a big clump of poop. Have been secretly following the thread the whole time, you are doing a great job with her.


----------



## SalteyLove

Hahaha! Dayna I have certainly used similar strategies (pretending to yell at the dogs until she heard you!) if I am worried about finding a sick animal dead! I have a handicapped Rooster and when I get home late from work and have to check the animals in the dark I can't bear to shine a light in to find him dead. So I only say "Roo?" and he reliably answers me with a bit of chicken talk


----------



## mayia97420

yep understand that sinking feeling until you hear that they are still alive- your doing great with her - each vid shows a little more spunk and sass in her. The leg may take a long time to resolve, try not to let it bother you.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I always had my mom or my sister come out with me to check on Xena every 2 hours. I did it a few times alone but having them there gave me strength just in case. So I know what you mean.

I'm actually glad to hear it was a tube like hardness, as apposed to something else. I would also think that's some poop and I hope she gets it out for you soon! She's a doll-baby. <3


----------



## janeen128

I completely understand the feeling Dayna... I had a doe that was sick one evening a couple months ago I kept checking on her every few hours, in hopes I could get her to the vet the next day.. Sadly she didn't make it, but I dreaded getting up even though I checked on her at 2 am, and had her up and everything..., sadly though she didn't make it;-( 
Your Myra has been and gone through so much, she is a fighter for sure... Keep up the good work.


----------



## toth boer goats

I agree with everyone.

Prayers sent.


----------



## Dayna

Some loose stool with an enema tonight, but still I can feel the poop in the intestines in that spot.

Anyway, here she is playing.

6.5 pounds as of today. I'm pretty darn sure she can SEE!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203761371249473


----------



## ksalvagno

That is great that she can see! There was someone else on here that had to do enemas for a long time.


----------



## ThreeHavens

Have you perchance rubbed peppermint oil or another similar oil where you feel the hardness? My sister rubs either peppermint oil or something else (forget what, will have to ask) on her baby's tummy when he's constipated. She says it works beautifully. Maybe it'll help.


----------



## happybleats

AWE..too cute and yes..it looks like she is getting her sight back ! thats great!!! Three heavens has a great idea with the Ess. oils....Ess. oils good for Constipation is Rosmary and/or Marjoram, rub on tummy...Peppermint can help as well..or a digestive blend like DigestZen...each person or goat is different and what works well on one may not do as well for another so trying a few different ones can help...

good job!!! you have taken this little girl from the brink of death to life of good health and tons of love!!!! :fireworks:


----------



## ThreeHavens

My sister confirms that what she uses is Peppermint oil.


----------



## toth boer goats

I also agree.


I am so happy she can see. With all the love and care, I really feel, she will have a happy long life, I commend you. 

She is so adorable.


----------



## janeen128

Awe!! So cute;-) YAY! She can see!!


----------



## mayia97420

Happy day!!! she can see - I look forward to Myra's videos, lets me see how well you are doing with her. she is getting stronger daily. Sometimes soft stool will come around a blockage. I would keep doing what you have been - it seems to be working


----------



## wendylou

I just watched the video!!!!! She's a ball of cuteness! I LOVE her ears!! Yaaaay for Myra! Your doing such a great job with her!! So glad she has you!! All my exclamation points!!! Lol


Wendy Lou


----------



## Greybird

Awww ... she can definitely see! There's just no other way she could have navigated those doorways since they don't make any noise to help guide her.
I don't know about the the various essential oils since I've never used any of them, but the idea of a very gentle massage around the area of her blockage seems like it might help and the oils certainly couldn't hurt. 
A baby's intestines are paper thin so you would want to be super-gentle and stop immediately if she fusses, but something like very slow fingertip pressure without rubbing might help the blockage to gradually get thinner and/or break up.
I'm cheering her on! She has a very strong will to live.


----------



## Dayna

I FOUND A POOP! I FOUND A POOP!

One small nugget of poop.  And it came out all on it's own without an enema.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

YAY POOP!!!!!!!! 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

Yahoooooo!!!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Yay!


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Woot!


----------



## toth boer goats

Celebrating Poo. :hi5:


----------



## kc8lsk

:applaud::applaud::applaud::dance::dance::clap::clap::leap::leap::stars::stars::stars::stars::stars::stars:


----------



## mayia97420

Woot!!!!


----------



## ThreeHavens

Poop party! arty::hi5::snowlaugh: :lol:


----------



## toth boer goats

LOL :laugh::dance:


----------



## janeen128

Yippee;-)


----------



## Dayna

She just pooped out some more on her own. And it smells FOUL. Is that normal? Is it because it's been in there so long? Like smells so bad, like death.


----------



## happybleats

Could be that old stuck poop is finally moving out!!..how does she feel?


----------



## Dayna

Oh and she's up to 6 pounds 11 ounces from 6 pounds 8 ounces yesterday so that's good.


----------



## Dayna

She's got lots of energy and happy.


----------



## NubianFan

Does the foul smelling poop look like it was a stuck blockage like it is a formed clump that is harder?


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna , your awesome :hi5: 

Oh , yay for poop :stars:


----------



## Dayna

nope, it was soft.


----------



## nannysrus

The foul smell could be bad bacteria. Not necessarily something to make her sick but enough to interfere with her in digestive tract. By getting her eating good and giving probios will help replenish good bacteria and decrease the bad. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

yep I agree...give some probiotics and keep watch but I think she has turned the corner for you!!...


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Maybe something big and hard is coming out next?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

the nugget of poop she did first may have been part of the blockage..giving room for this softer poop...which has been stuck int here a while..so yep it will smell bad...hopefully she continues to poop on her own : )


----------



## Dayna

Well Myra must be feeling better. She's hopping and dancing and prancing and running from me when she wants to chew on cords and I go to grab her. LOL

She is CRACKING US UP! I got a playpen ready for her since the laundry basket no longer will contain her at night.


----------



## ksalvagno

That is great!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Congrats and great job!


----------



## wendylou

I want to join the poop party!
YAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!
Lol


Wendy Lou


----------



## ThreeHavens

Awesome news!


----------



## happybleats

Wonderful news


----------



## Trickyroo

Bless her little heart


----------



## boats

Thank goodness will she be a house goats lol


----------



## toth boer goats

That is awesome :hi5::thumb: good to hear she is happy and healthy. Good work


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Still pooping today?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

Yep, checking in on her too... Hopefully she is pooping by herself still.


----------



## Dayna

No poop yet today.


----------



## ThreeHavens

She may still need enemas to help her along ... but at least we know she's making progress!


----------



## BooBelly

Just have to jump in. Does she still have the bump on her side you felt the other day? Just wondering if she pooped it out.


----------



## Dayna

bump is still there.

Two poops so far today on her own with no enema. So I'm going to wait and see how she does before giving her an enema. I think her intestines were getting inflamed from so many enemas.


----------



## janeen128

I would probably keep up with the MOM, that's just me though, cause it cleans out the system..


----------



## Trickyroo

Poop check …….:chin:


----------



## Dayna

Very little pooping today, but some on her own so I'm seeing how she does. She is up to 7 pounds. Happy, energetic, bouncing, eyes clear.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Well at least she feels good!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

I ended up giving her an enema and she pooped out quite a bit.  So thats good. I'm trying to only give her an enema if I have to as her intestines are feeling less inflamed since I'm giving less. I figure that's a good thing.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Sounds like progress!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

Sounds like progress;-)


----------



## happybleats

Yes..giving less enemas is good...the body needs to work on its own, enemas are safe and effective but prolong use can cause irritation after a while...You are doing a great job!!


----------



## Trickyroo

Funny how a pile of poop will make us just as happy as a bouquet of 
flowers ray:


----------



## ThreeHavens

Yayyy!


----------



## boats

Yeah baby poops more picture and boncing vidios


----------



## toth boer goats

Yes!!! Good to hear.


----------



## Dayna

Miss Myra Kay Fusseybutt giving me morning snuggles after her bath. I've got some skin photos for you guys to look at after I get them uploaded. Shes got some chunks of skin she's bitting at around her tail and her groin area that are concerning to me. PLUS she's been sneezing for two days now. Nothing gross sounding, no snot, no coughing, no wheezing.


----------



## janeen128

Haha!! So cute!! I wanna house goat;-)


----------



## happybleats

wow..she looks great!!! Love those brown eyes : )


----------



## ThreeHavens

She looks great!

If you are concerned about the sneezing, I would take a temperature.

As for the biting, I'd check for lice. If there are no lice keep an eye out for signs of mites. 

I had great success dusting with sulfur this year for lice.


----------



## toth boer goats

I agree, check for lice or mites, and treat if needed.

She is so adorable. 

As to the sneezing, by any chance did some water get into her nose while bathing?


----------



## Dayna

I don't think so on the water, she was sneezing before the bath.

I checked for lice/mites but since you can't really see them sometimes... maybe I should just treat? I have CyLence, Sevin dust and Ivermec 1%. Which one would you suggest?


----------



## happybleats

what do the areas look like? are they crusty...loosing hair? lice is easy enough to see but mites you can only see the damage..if you have dogs or cats..fleas might be an issue as well..so look close... If you need to treat I would go with cylence...maybe put a bit on a cotton pad and rub the area of concern...

check her temp...and keep an eye on that...is she sneezing alot or just now and again?..any dust in her hay/alfalfa? or grain?


----------



## ariella42

I can't add anything to the advice except, AWWWW  My husband and I have been following this thread, and she's the cutest little thing in the world. You've been doing such a great job with her. Oh, and I want a house goat too


----------



## Dayna

here you can see the crusty stuff around her tail area:










And it's hard to see but the inside of both her legs have the same crusty stuffs:


----------



## happybleats

try the cylence....: )


----------



## mayia97420

still following along, emotionally invested in Myra.


----------



## Dayna

Just so I don't overdose her.

Fiasco farms says 1 cc per 25 pounds. So half a cc would be for 14.5 pounds so a quarter cc for 7 pounds?


----------



## ksalvagno

What is this for? Sometimes Fiasco Farm is wrong in their dosages.

Half of 25 is 12.5 and half of that is 6.25.


----------



## Dayna

ksalvagno said:


> What is this for? Sometimes Fiasco Farm is wrong in their dosages.
> 
> Half of 25 is 12.5 and half of that is 6.25.


See how bad I am at maths in my head?! lol She's got crustys on her skin and is biting and itching so it was suggested on the last page to give her CyLence.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications-2.htm

Brand Name

CyLence- Pour-on

For treatment of:
Controls horn flies, face flies, biting and sucking lice.
Goat dose: Pour-on - Drip this along the goat's spine. 
1cc per 25 pounds
For lice treatment, repeat in 3 weeks. 
To control flies, use once a month throughout the summer.
Milk withholding time: none
Notes:
Contains cyfluthrin, a 4th generation pyrethroid.


----------



## ksalvagno

That one is actually correct. At least that is the dosage I use.


----------



## Trickyroo

Geez Dayna , she is getting more and more adorable !
How can that even be possible ?
Just a thought , could the bath be giving the flaky skin ?
Maybe the sneezing has to do with something in the house , like a shampoo or something like that……she is closer to the ground where the scents linger longer . Maybe a house cleaning product ?
Just something to think about 
Your doing wonderful with her ! You and Myra have a HUGE following , as if you didn't know , lol.


----------



## goathiker

You don't have to be too precise on the CyLence the dose is actually 4 cc per 100 lbs. for lice and 8 cc per 100 lbs. for mites.


----------



## FreedomStarr

She is such a cutie! I can't believe how much you have done for this little girl!


----------



## Dayna

A new video I took tonight, look at her go go go!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203785790619942


----------



## boats

She is too darn adorable


----------



## toth boer goats

Wow, she looks like she is getting around better and using her back legs more, awesome.


----------



## happybleats

she looks and acts great!!! I'm thinking she's out of the woods lol...


----------



## Trickyroo

Yay for Myra :hugs:


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

So stinkin cute!


----------



## boats

Your in Hawaii right what Island


----------



## janeen128

Cute! Cute! Cute!! Makes me want to snuggle and cuddle with her;-)


----------



## Dayna

boats said:


> Your in Hawaii right what Island


I'm on the Big Island, between Pahoa and Keaau.


----------



## mayia97420

Looking so good - you have brought her so far- she is so cute - give her little nose a kiss from me.


----------



## ThreeHavens

What a happy little girl!


----------



## Dayna

A short little video from tonight. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203792311262954


----------



## toth boer goats

Wow, just wow, what a difference, she looks really good Dayna.  Good work.


----------



## janeen128

My oh my..., she just keeps getting more adorable;-)


----------



## Dayna

If by adorable you mean naughty! lol She's starting to act like a goat. Making me really happy.


----------



## Dayna

Myra helping me prepare some ground for planting papaya trees!


----------



## toth boer goats

Aww


----------



## janeen128

Awe!! Haha, they have to be naughty to be 100% adorable, it's just the "goat" way;-)


----------



## Dayna

Myra doesn't feel good today. No bouncing.  I gave her an enema since she's not been pooping much. Maybe that'll help her.


----------



## Dayna

Temp 104.9 grinding teeth.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Oh no! Was she eating ok today?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

Yeah hungry and eager to eat.


----------



## happybleats

Temp is a bit high..!! grinding teeth is usually gut pain... could she have gotton into something out side? I would start her on antibiotics for the fever...


----------



## Dayna

I can't think of anything she could have gotten into. I watch her like a hawk. I will retake her temp in an hour or so to make sure it's right. I will restart her on PenG. Every 12 hours right? I just got a new bottle in case the other bottle I used on her was too old.

I wonder if its the constipation causing the gut pain? If she's still running a fever should I also give her a low dose asprin?


----------



## Dayna

I am going to be devastated if she doesn't make it. She's come so far.


----------



## happybleats

constipation can cause gut pain, yes...and some times fever..how long has it been since she pooped well?

yes you can give a low dose aspirin if her temps high...also cool her down with cool compresses behind her ears and her arm pit area...


she will be fine!!! she is great hands...just a set back...


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Pain medications can cause constipation... I would avoid them if you can since she already has problems there..


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

She's not pooped really really well in a while. I've been giving her enemas once a day to get out as much as I can, but not enough is coming out I don't think. I just gave her some MOM and I'll keep that up every two hours. When should I give her another enema? I gave her one an hour ago and 3 small round poops came out and that's it since last night. Last night maybe 5 round poops came out. So she's obviously backed up...


----------



## Dayna

Also it looks like the white on her eyes is coming back a bit? I could be mistaken but that's what it looks like. I'm so confused.


----------



## happybleats

since you got so little poop last time..I would give another...you need to get her cleaned out...that and the MOM should help...


----------



## happybleats

the eyes are confusing...unless it has something to do with her not absorbing Vit's possible A?? and with her not pooping her intestines are sluggish ???


----------



## Dayna

Def getting white film back on one eye.

Normal eye:










White film coming back.










last night both eyes were totally normal.


----------



## happybleats

yep...I better do some reading!! that is strange...I would start the neospordin


----------



## nannysrus

Her staying backed up us going to be worse than giving too many enemas back to back. 

We used to do a fleets enema and then if no progress in one hour we gave mom and a mineral oil enema.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

Kathy- could the white build up be from toxins not flushed threw her pooping????


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

Can I hurt or burst her intestines by giving too much enemas? That's my big fear with the enema.


----------



## happybleats

> could the white build up be from toxins not flushed threw her pooping????


That is a thought...!!


----------



## nannysrus

Not that I am aware of. I have never had an issue with that and we ended up doing about 13 enemas in one night once but it was a serious situation in which a vet was not available.

What will happen is the contents will start soaking in the fluids and so will the intestines because they are lacking. Sometimes it takes a large amount in order to bust up and remove a blockage. Giving her too much will give her scours for a bit but will clear her up. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

No enemas wont harm her..they can become irritating after a while but the backed up poop is far more dangerous to her


----------



## nannysrus

If you have peppermint oil rub it on her tummy. Peppermint will increase blood supple to the intestines. 

Massage her tummy going clockwise.

Warmth will also help but need to hold off on that if she has a temperature.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

Eventually the enemas will "gush" out of her and bring everything with it. ( I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time with that Scenerio)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

okay, here I go. I got a 60 cc syringe instead of the little 3cc one I've been using. I've been doing several 3cc's. I also grabbed the tube so that the liquid can go around the tube so I don't accidentally put too much in. Wish me luck.


----------



## nannysrus

Constipation can damage other organs in the body because toxins build up. "If" it were me I would give regular enemas till her poop was soft and runny. Staying constipated damages the linings of the intestines and builds toxins in the blood supply which lead to damaging affect in other organs.

What seems like to me is the constipation is blocking the absorption of vitamin a and with her the toxins that build up she is being denied any vitamin a she does absorb and her eyes are turning foggy again


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

I agree with Samantha...


----------



## nannysrus

When giving and enema just go slow. No need to rush threw it. Yes they won't like it but it doesn't hurt. It feels weird having liquids go in that end. Warm water, normal body temp water works the best 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

Oh and I only loaded 30 cc's into the syringe. lol


----------



## nannysrus

That's alright, the first enema I ever did I gave WAY to much (happened to be on a horse) and the result was NOT pretty on my end lol however the horse felt much better. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

If you have any yogurt, yogurt will help gut function but also has a small amount of vitamin a in it. She may love it ;-)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

also know it can take 30-40 minutes or onger to get any results..and with her issues it can take longer...fill her up slowly until she squirts a bit back out...massage her tummy


----------



## Dayna

I have peppermint oil somewhere but I can't find it. I will keep looking. So far no poops coming out. I'm letting her walk around for a while to move things around.


----------



## nannysrus

If you have apple juice and or prune juice you can warm it up and give it to her. I mix apple and prune half and half.

May be gentler on her than MOM
Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I just gave her some yogurt. All I had was peach flavored... so I took out the chunks and ate those myself. I gave her a couple tablespoons and she REALLY loved it!

I have baby prune sauce. I might try that in a bit.


----------



## happybleats

s


> o I took out the chunks and ate those myself


. :ROFL:

you are doing great Dayna : )


----------



## nannysrus

Dayna said:


> so I took out the chunks and ate those myself. .


Oh not me! lol I can't stand chunks in my yogurt.

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## nannysrus

Oh, Dayna, don't forget to breathe..... I know it gets overwhelming but if you get nervous and stressed so will Myra. She will feed off your energy. So stay positive!!! 

If I get overwhelmed I have to sit somewhere quite and take deep breathes because when you get flustered and start fearing your brain will start putting things you know on the back burner. Like, you will know what to do but yet because your so caught up in the moment you forget type if thing.

You are doing great with her and she is a darling!


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

I am really stressed out. I feel like she's counting on me to make all the perfect choices for her and if I don't she'll die and it'll be my fault.


----------



## happybleats

> she'll die and it'll be my fault.


No mam...it will not be your fault...you are doing everything to get her and keep her well...we just need to remember sometimes that is not enough, goats are complicated!!....HOWEVER...she is doing great!! this is a small set back that you are handling..no matter what you have gone above and beyond here for her!!! never doubt that!


----------



## nannysrus

I know that feeling. I have a mare diagnose with type 2 PSSM. (Genetic muscle disorder). She requires multiple daily supplements and workouts. Some days she can barely pick up her feet and other days she is running around like crazy. Some days she is in so much pain I can't even touch her...... If I can't get her condition under control I have no option but to put her to sleep. I have a big relationship with this horse and it crushes me everyday that she has a bad day because I start questioning my own judgement.

Don't question yourself. It does her no good and you no good. Nobody benefits from it. 

Doubt and fear are the ultimate defeaters. Do not doubt your abilities. Go above and beyond and know and be confident in yourself. When you start questioning if you did something right or not, stop it. Take a step back, breathe, and okay, this is what is going on. This is what we can do. Make a game plan.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

YEP....everytme we get an emergency call for help....fear creeps in and its easy to fear you will give the wrong advice...but that is just it..FEAR and doubt are no do gooders for sure...we snap out of it and let our experiance kick in...you are and have done an amazing job! she was left for dead...and you offered her life and for how ever long she is with you..be it a month or 12 years...its more then she had before you came along!...


----------



## nannysrus

My ultimate battle in life is the fact that I doubt my abilities. Day in and day out it eats me up. I have a severe depressive disorder that screws with me and anxiety to go right along with it. My kids and my animals are what keeps my head above water. 

Don't hold "if something happens to her its my fault" over your head. You are allowing your doubts to take control.

I never thought I would see the day where I could throw my arm over my mares back and stand beside her without her attacking me. But I have, thanks to a lot of research and thanks to a lot of people on a PSSM forum. I thought I had screwed my horse up big time training her myself. I beat myself up bad. I thought I completely ruined her. Turns out she was just in a severe amount of pain. 

Grasping control of the situation at hand and saying "I can do this, I will do everything within my power to do the best I can". Know within your heart you are doing the best by Myra. You have brought her so far!!! Don't doubt yourself and give up on her. Have faith in yourself and know that you can and will do everything within your power to help her. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

On a good note, did I tell you guys she's pee trained? If she's running around the house and I leave a towel on the ground she WILL pee on the towel each and every time. Poop, is kinda whatever from the enemas. But I thought that was pretty cool. She'll run over to the towel and stand on it to pee. She sometimes doesn't actually pee ON the towel she might just be standing on the towel, but I've not cleaned up any goat pee for a couple weeks now and she's out for hours and hours each day and the towel is soaked by the time I put her to bed. 

Just a neat thing I was thinking of. She's a great baby.


----------



## nannysrus

You can get her potty trained and keep her inside!!! That would neat lol



Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

That is great..I know there is another gal on here who house trained her goats...they pee when told lol..Goats are pretty awsome!!


----------



## nannysrus

What breed is Myra?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

She's a mix of a nigerian dwarf (the father) and a nubian (the mother).

She should be a bit big to be a house goat. Plus hubby is like "when are you moving that goat outside". I told him when she's pooping on her own and after I seperate annabelles kids at night from her (when they are two weeks old) so that she's not outside at night by herself.


----------



## nannysrus

My mini Nubian girls are 8 months and 35lbs each and then the other one who Is the same age, well I think the Nubian went somewhere else because she is only 24 lbs at 8 months old


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Scottyhorse

nannysrus said:


> My ultimate battle in life is the fact that I doubt my abilities. Day in and day out it eats me up. I have a severe depressive disorder that screws with me and anxiety to go right along with it.
> 
> Samantha
> 
> "5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


:hug: I can relate to this.. I have the same two along with a couple other things. It's so hard sometimes  The animals keep me going for sure.


----------



## goathiker

Cathy, let's find out if they can be born with tapeworm, look at the list of symptoms...

Abdominal discomfort
Anemia
Bloody stools
Chills
Constipation
Coughing
Diarrhea
Eye pain
Fatigue
Fever
Gas
Insomnia
Loss of appetite
Nausea
Nervousness
Protein deficiency
Rashes
Stomach bloating
Vomiting
Weakness


----------



## nannysrus

Goat hiker- I read somewhere they could get tapeworm from nursing off their dam??? 

Idk where I read that.....


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

I heard today that toxoplasmosis can cause that film over the eye


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna , you will pull her through this :hug:
My feelings is she picked something up outside…
You have a great crew on here to help and offer advice.
We are all emotionally invested in her :grouphug:


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## happybleats

> Cathy, let's find out if they can be born with tapeworm, look at the list of symptoms...


Humm..interesting thought...mites cause tape worm in goats correct? so if mom was heavy with mites..maybe...but again..arent babies protected in the womb....ok..Im going to read lol..you got me thinking...


----------



## janeen128

Awe... She will be okay. I know it's tough with this set back, but you are doing GREAT!! Through the knowledgable people on here and your care she will be okay;-)


----------



## goathiker

Beetle mites though, not goat mites. They are in the hay and the grass.


----------



## happybleats

Look at this

http://www.infonet-biovision.org/default/ct/675/animaldiseases



> The general life cycle of tape worms occurs in two hosts, the final or principal host, and the intermediate host.
> *The eggs of the adult worm are fertilized within the hermaphrodite worm and develop into embryos in the uterus within a segment (proglotid)*.
> This segment will break off from the rest of the chain and is passed out of the body of the host in the faeces after degeneration of the proglotid to form a sac of embyonated eggs. Within the egg of all tape worms, an embryo develops which is eaten by the intermediate host where it is transformed into a bladder like structure. The embryo may be transformed into one big bladder like structure with numerous invaginated walls called a coenurus.
> The embryo may also be transformed into one bladder like structure with one invagination in the wall called a cysticercus. In Echinococcus granulosus species of tape worm, the bladder like structure may develop to form daughters and grand daughters called hydatid cysts.
> The coenurus, cysticercus and hydatid cysts will each produce at the base the scolex or head, including the hooks which will become the scolex of the future worm in the final host.
> When this larval stage enters the final host when the intermediate host is swallowed by the final host the head fixes itself into the tissues of the final host to begin a new adult phase.
> Mature tapeworms only develop when the final host ingests the intermediate stage. The intermediate hosts in the common tapeworms of ruminants are oribatid mites.


Interesting..not sure what it means yet lol..

EDIt..couldit be the uterus of the tape worm?? trying to read with red eyes lol...


----------



## ThreeHavens

Xena and I had a major setback too. It's so hard when they're doing well and then they struggle again. It's normal - her little body's been through a lot! You're doing GREAT. Be kind to yourself, and know you have my prayers. :hug: I really do feel she'll be all right.


----------



## Dayna

As far as the fever goes. She's still running one. 104.8

What should I do? Could it be from the constipation? Should I give her asprin or antibiotics or both? So stressful trying to decide what to do. She had 2 small pellets come out with the earlier enema. I gave her another one a few minutes ago and nothing so far.

Trickyroo, I am 100% sure she didn't get into anything outside. You don't understand. She was with me/right next to me the whole time. There was NOTHING but grass. She's been on the grass before today. lol


----------



## nannysrus

I would give the aspirin and see if that brings it down. If it doesn't then give antibiotics. The antibiotics and also make the constipation worse so make you give her probios 3-4 hours after the antibiotic.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

Give her the aspirin to help reduce her fever....I would start antibiotics too, just to cover my bases...104.8 is a bit high to mess with...and keep up with the enemas..she needs to get unclogged to feel better...the MOM will help flush toxins the blocked poop can bring..lots of fluids here..no milk for now..electros...get her hydrated...


----------



## Dayna

just gave her asprin. 

If fiasco farm website is right it says 1cc/15# since Myra is 7 pounds would I give her half a cc? Every 12 hours right?


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Dayna said:


> If fiasco farm website is right it says 1cc/15# since Myra is 7 pounds would I give her half a cc? Every 12 hours right?


are you talking about the pen G? I have always done 1cc /20# with good results

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

yes pen G.

She weighs 7 pounds. I am so bad at math, what would her dose be?


----------



## goathiker

3/10's of a cc.


----------



## Dayna

Myras bed was full of poop and shes now bouncing around the living room smelling horrid but full of energy.

The poop was very trampled so I can't really tell how much but she obviously feels a bit better. I'm guessing she'll still need enemas but YAY!


----------



## ariella42

Yay for bouncing! (and pooping)


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Yay!!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

Great news....Hows her temp?? Im so happy she let loose lol...


----------



## Dayna

I'll take her temp in a bit, I'm letting her just play for a while without me doing "butt stuff" to her. She really hates it. I think her anus tissues are sore.

She's not fluffed up and shivering like she was yesterday so I'm going to guess her temp is at least lower than yesterday. Last night before I went to bed I took her temp and it was down to 104.2 so it had started to go down a bit already just from the asprin. I had just dosed her with PenG like 10 minutes before that so it wasn't that affecting it yet.

It got a little chilly last night, probably in the upper 60's so the lanai was nice and cool for her fever and that probably helped too.


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## Trickyroo

Yay for pooping and bouncing :clap:


----------



## mayia97420

you keep pooping, Myra


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## janeen128

Yay!!!;-)


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## nannysrus

You never know how exciting it is too see poop until you have a constipated critter.  good job!!!! 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## ThreeHavens

Yayyy! Unfortunately you're right about her probably needing enemas longer than we'd like, but a happy little girl is such great news. :hug:


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## janeen128

How is Miss. Myra doing today?


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## BooBelly

Nothing like a good poop to make the whole day better! LOL!


----------



## Trickyroo

How is our little angel today ?


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## Dayna

Pooping on her own several times today!!!!! YAHOOOOOOOO

No fever, though she is still teeth grinding... which means stomach pain right? regardless she's bouncy and happy.


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## HappyCaliGoats

WooooHoooooo! So happy to hear that!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

YAHOOO for poop on her own...teeth grinding or is she playing with her teeth? Grinding in pain is pretty consistant where playing with them is here and there

with her feeling so well I am thinking she maybe playing with them??


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## Scottyhorse

I agree with Cathy, when I have gut pain I'm not jumping and playing  Is she chewing a cud??


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## Trickyroo

Thats good to hear Dayna  Maybe she is just thinking about her next enema ? Kidding aside , if she is jumping around and playing , maybe she is playing with her teeth. Or maybe she has a tiny bit of gas…..


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## janeen128

Awe, that's good to hear...;-) I'm going to say if she's happy and playing she's either starting to chew her cud, or playing with her teeth..


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## ThreeHavens

If it's a "crunch crunch crunch" like she's trying to chew cud but nothing's there, I've found that normal. If it's kind of like she's stretching her jaw from side to side or looking uncomfortable while doing it, it's probably a bit of tummy discomfort. I wouldn't be too concerned unless her behavior changes - you are on top of things. If she starts acting ichy she may need a CD anti-toxin.

I can't stress what a great job you're doing with her.


----------



## nannysrus

I know when I have my episodes with my guts it's all I can do to take care I the kids and animals. I don't even walk if I can avoid it. I just in the floor and let the kids climb all over me while I'm hunched up in a ball.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

Myra had a day today! I left for work at 7am, my husband in charge of taking care of Myra. I guess she cried a lot while I was gone. When I pulled up into the drive he opened the gate, a goat under his arm.  I guess he carried her around with him on the farm while doing chores.

I noticed her eyes were a little more blurry and squinty and she was puffed up a bit so I took her temp. 106. I gave her a crushed up asprin and restarted the PenG. I hesitated before because her fever went down with the poop coming out so I attributed it to constipation.

It took us 20 minutes to get .5 cc of PenG into this tiny goat. She screamed and thrashed and squirmed and was a general menace. Finally I got the needle in, checked for blood and pushed it in. Geeze.

While we were watching a movie we downloaded off the computer she pulled the dongle out of the DVD player. haha she thought she deserved more attention I guess!

Anyway, I'm putting her to bed, fever is down a bit. Only a tiny bit of pooping on her own today so it looks like an enema to follow in the morning.


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## mayia97420

I am so glad you are in there for the long haul. I have been there and it is hard to hang in there. You measure weight gains in ounces. Elated when she seems better and then terrified when something seems wrong. Don't let the long-term get you down. She is better overall and she is still fighting. She has her only chance at life with all the loving care you have given her. Don't forget to take care of yourself. Make sure you are eating and sleeping well. Take a little time for yourself each day. Thank you so much for the care you are giving and for letting us share Myra's life.


----------



## happybleats

Awe..poor Myra.....106 is very high!! To help bring that temp down use cold compresses behind her ear and under her from legs ( think arm pit) I hope she feels better for you today...

keep up the enemas a few times a day to keep things moving...


----------



## janeen128

Awe, poor baby Myra;-( I agree with Happybleats.


----------



## janeen128

How's Ms Myra today?


----------



## Trickyroo

yes , how is our little angel today ?


----------



## Dayna

I've been having to do a lot of enemas to get poop out so MOM started again too. Gaining weight and happy... just plugged up and an infection somewhere. I don't' know where. Still blind in one eye.


----------



## happybleats

do you have her on Pen right now?? she is such a trooper!!


----------



## Dayna

Yes, she's on PenG right now. Day two, of the second round. I don't know how long to do it this time, last time I did it for 5 days, 10 doses and she was clear of fever for quite a while. I'm guessing it needed to be longer.... but how long? Her fever goes away by the second dose of antibiotics both times and no other symptoms.

I don't want to keep pumping her full of drugs, that's not good for her. So obviously I need to do the full course so no rebound germs. She's well over 8 pounds now so double what she was when I brought her home. She's now 1 month old. I don't know if 8 pounds is good or bad for a 1 month old nd/nubian mix. Seems small to me. Horns are starting to sprout and she's rubbing her head on stuff. She can finally climb up a step (she sleeps in the lanai and there is a step to get into the house). Still not eating grain, hay, pellets, or anything but milk. I have fresh hay of two types out all the time for her (orchard and alfalfa) and I have grain out for several hours a day, but have to pick it up when I let the dogs in as the dogs try to eat it, and she has it in her playpen all night. She LOVES the loose minerals.... I tried sprinkling some of that on the grain but no go. She mouths hay and greens from outside but never actually eats any of them. All my other kids I've ever had have been eating a decent amount of food by her age.


----------



## Trickyroo

That she is ! Poor thing though , she has such a great attitude even though she gets all these things done to her


----------



## Trickyroo

Do you let her be with the others for a tiny bit supervised ?
Im wondering if she watches the others eat maybe that will entice her ?


----------



## Dayna

My other goats are too dangerous to have her around them. I keep hoping Annabelle will give birth soon and then I can have her around the kids.

She's just so small and my other goats are so big and aggressive with kids that are not their own.... And she has no momma goat to protect her. Even supervised it scares me.


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna said:


> My other goats are too dangerous to have her around them. I keep hoping Annabelle will give birth soon and then I can have her around the kids.
> 
> She's just so small and my other goats are so big and aggressive with kids that are not their own.... And she has no momma goat to protect her. Even supervised it scares me.


Yeah ,, your absolutely right Dayna , i would be too ! 
Thats a good idea with Annabelle's babies


----------



## happybleats

I would do 7 days on the pen and follow up with probiotics..you might try putting a little alfalfa or leaves in her mouth and see if once in there she will chew...it might be she is delayed some due to her health...at any rate...keep offering it...maybe put a little in her play pen at night so she can nibble, I would nt worry about grain right now..with her poop problem, it might be better to hold off however the sooner she begins to eat hay and such the better her poops will work I bet..


----------



## ThreeHavens

Have you tried being mommy goat and showing her how to eat and drink? Maybe set a bowl of water down and have her watch you sip it every once and awhile. Eventually she'll get curious. Same with the hay. Maybe stick a strand in your mouth, lol! Otherwise, she may still just be trying to feel good and not ready for new things.


----------



## BooBelly

I wonder if there is a defect in her intestines that make it hard for the poop to get through and that's why she needs enemas to move things along. Just a thought.


----------



## Dayna

To anyone who says that shots don't hurt the kids and that they don't know whats happening hasn't yet met Myra. Giving her PenG is about the saddest, hardest thing in the world!

She KNOWS. She SCREAMS. And it's not just the holding her still part. She screams as soon as I pinch her skin to make a tent and she screams like no goat I've ever had before. She sounds like a human baby SCREAMING. Giving her these injections is really wearing on me. After her shot she won't come to me, she stands there like she's in shock trembling. It's really horrible for both of us.

It takes a couple hours after her shot before she starts acting normal again. She doesn't bounce back like every other animal I've ever injected.

What is going on? I wish she would just get better already.

I placed an order with the feed store to be picked up tomorrow and included some calf manna. Maybe she'll nibble at that?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm wondering if she has intestinal inflammation that's making it hard for her to go to the bathroom... maybe an anti-inflammatory, like dexamethasone is in order?

As to the shots, kids don't like shots. Period. Try giving them in a different spot and be as quick as you can and offer her bottle afterwards.


----------



## happybleats

Poor Myra...she has been injected, temped and had sooo many enemas and she is tired of it...I dont blame her...Can you get your hand on Nuflor? its RX but its once a day and should kick this out of her system for good. Sometimes Pen G just is not enough... also, Are you giving it sub Q? Where?

I have a few kids that its just heart breaking when I have to give shots...some goats just dont take it well while others just take it and go...

((HUGS))


----------



## Dayna

I am giving it sub q and trying to do it in a different place each time so that she doesn't get extra sore anywhere. Nuflor, I'll do a google search to see if I can buy it online anywhere without a script.


----------



## happybleats

Nuflor is RX...saddly a script is needed....but its good for URI and such...

I liek the idea of giving the shot then offering her bottle...get her mind off the ouch


----------



## ariella42

One of my little girls was like that with the shots  My husband swore someone was going to call DSS on us every time we gave her one. Then she'd just look hurt and sulk for a long time. Treats helped, though immediately afterwards she always looked at us suspiciously. I think timing shots and the bottle is a good idea.


----------



## Trickyroo

Poor baby Myra  I feel terrible when i have to give a shot and they react to it , no matter how lightly , it makes me sad. I know when i gave Jenni a shot once , she screamed , rolled around , limped , and downright gave me a instant heart attack thinking i just killed her.'She was fine 5 minutes later , but i wasnt , i was shaking like a flipping 
leaf ! I think i would be down for the count if i were to give Myra her shots ! Im feel so bad for you and your husband (((hugs)))
I probably couldnt do it , your way stronger Dayna 
I think she has been through so much that she is feeling everything two fold….the poor baby  We are all praying she grows out of this ..


----------



## mayia97420

it really does just about kill us to have to hurt our babies even if we have to. I always give my pen G IM.


----------



## Dayna

She got a bath today (which she doesn't like) but then she got a blow dry (which she loves). Still no pooping on her own. I'm still giving her MOM to keep the stools somewhat soft with each bottle. I give her 1.5 cc's of Power Punch once a day. She gets probiotics with her morning bottle.

I saw her eat a very small piece of hay. She didn't spit it out. It disappeared so I assume she ate it! YAY! Granted it's only ONE piece of hay, but hey thats good!!!!

I offer her minerals twice a day in a bowl and let her eat some. Not a lot because I think she'd eat as much as she could as she really likes it. I can't leave it out because the dogs would eat it.


----------



## goathiker

Look at the first ingredient in your Power Punch

How Toxic is Propylene Glycol

According to the Environmental Working Group, propylene glycol can cause a whole host of problems. It is rated a 3 by them, which is categorized as a “moderate” health issue. It has been shown to be linked to cancer, developmental/reproductive issues, allergies/immunotoxicity, neurotoxicity, endocrine disruption, and organ system toxicity. It has been found to provoke skin irritation and sensitization in humans as low as 2% concentration.


----------



## nannysrus

Kudos goathiker!!!! 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Cactus_Acres

With that info, she may do better with a pinch more minerals and less power punch at this point. 

As far as other feeds go, have you tried grass hay pellets or soaking some of her milk in some pellets before giving it to her (sort of like infusing the milk with the flavor of hay, but not forcing her to eat the actual whole pellets). I wonder if you could soak some pellets in the milk, then strain it and bottle it up for her. It might or might not get her to try the pellets at a later time.


----------



## Dayna

I have soaked the stuffs in milk. I'll try the infusing though!

SCARY on that power punch. Isn't antifreeze a glycol? Maybe it's what makes it taste good. Regardless, I'm stopping that.

Something that is bothering me a lot is the intermittent blindness. Sometimes she's blind. Sometimes she's not. For example. Earlier today she navigated the living room pretty well. This evening even with all the lights on, running into the walls.

Tonight temp is 102.4
Weight 8.2 pounds
Good milk appetite. 

She was a bit depressed today after her morning peng shot, but cheered up as the day went on. This evening she was super cute and playing having fun, until peng time. Now she's still crying (I put her to bed). She's had her enema, her bottle, her cuddles and she's SCREAMING crying. She doesn't appear to be in pain. She's not hungry. If I go check on her she just starts bouncing around happy like.

My neighbors must think I've had a baby and I'm killing it.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Can you get biomycin? It's like la200 without the sting, and it's a broad spectrum antibiotic like penicillin, but it's a tetracycline. Just so you aren't giving shots 2x a day.
The in and out blindness is strange... I'll look through the books and see if I can find anything on that. Do her eyes get runny?


----------



## Skybison

Hey Dayna, there is a Facebook group you might consider joining called Goat Vet Corner. Its worth a try, and you get advice from real vets for free! I really love the vets on there, especially Dr. Brown. I bet the vets there would be interested in Miss Myra's case.

You're doing so good, though! And Myra is a trooper.


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Certain diseases lile chlamidia cause both intestinal and visual issues in goats ...but oxytetracyclines arent good drugs for young kids due to bone growth problems they cause... then theres still the possibility of a selenium or more likely a thiamine deficiency thay could affect the eyes... i wish i could beam u some thiamine and bose! I wonder what carrot juice would do?


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Have u tried terramyacin antibiotic ointment applied dire tly to the eye?


----------



## ThreeHavens

I've wondered about chlamydia too, with her eyes and intestinal problems. I know it is treatable though.


----------



## happybleats

Poor Myra and Dayna!! Im going back to wonder what Goathiker was suggesting about tape worm...Ive not found any proof kids are born with them however I did find where thread worm can be passed through moms milk.scary thought..I wonder if a three day valbazen or safeguard treatment would help...
Do you have B complex? 

I think Tylan 200 is a better OTC choice for URI type stuff then LA 200...I would try Tylan 200 if you cant get Nuflor and she continues to battle infection...


----------



## Trickyroo

Something is telling me the penicillin is causing more harm then good right now , i can't explain why , but its a gut feeling.

Gosh , i wish we could figure this out for you and Myra


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, so for her eyes... shot in the dark here, but can you try eye drops? Could possibly be her eyes aren't moist enough, drying out the tear film layer, clouding the surface of the eye. Like when you see a dead animal and their eyes are clouded over...


----------



## Dayna

I don't want to stop antibiotics mid cycle so I will continue the PenG for it's duration. I know it's doing something as when she wasn't on it she had fever, etc. And now she doesn't. So there is an infection somewhere. Which leads me to believe it's not a vitamin issue, but a bacterial one.

Possible it's multiple issues. But I want to get the infection cleared up before I get too involved in figuring out anything else.

I've given her b complex, and selenium mixed with vitE. I can give her more b complex (human pills).

I have stopped the power punch. I'm trying to order replamin plus but am having trouble finding a shipper to ship it to Hawaii for less than $20. It's 300ml plus packaging, there is no way it costs $20+ to mail it to Hawaii. That's crazy. It would fit in a small flat rate box or a first class envelope.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And for the constipation, can you try to get her to eat 1-4 tbsp of coarse wheat bran daily to up the fiber, and 5-10ml of mineral oil 2x a day (flavor it though as it is tasteless and they can inhale it by accident)? Calcium may help the muscle functions of her intestines as well. They recommend 7-8mg of docusate calcium a day for her size.


----------



## goathiker

I found an article saying that a fever can cause temporary blindness as well.


----------



## Dayna

I also think the eye problem is the infection as it's clearing up again with the PenG. I just noticed today that the white spots are shrinking again....

Why so confusing Myra!?


----------



## happybleats

im sure her immune system as well as internal goodies are all messed up..she had a rough start...slow and steady will be her motto in recovery...I agree finish the antibiotic course...you see its working so it gives you strength when you have to give another shot!...be sure probiotics are 3-4 hours after the pen and lots and lots of fluids..maybe offer her a bottle of electrolytes between milk bottles..


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna , i might have this replamin plus , I'm going to check my supplies and let you know. If it would help , id be happy to ship it to you


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh and i understand not stopping the pen g , it was just a thought i had.
If its helping her , by all means don't stop it , lol.. I was thinking out loud


----------



## Dayna

My husband (he's so sweet) picked up this package of "bounce back" Multi species electrolyte supplement from "manna pro".

It says for goat kids to mix 5 level teaspoons into 2 cups warm water. Offer the solution at a rate of 1/2 cup per 6 pounds of body weight twice a day.

Can I giver her that inbetween bottles instead of a home made electrolyte solution?


----------



## goathiker

Bounce back is great, I used to use it on day old auction calves.


----------



## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> Dayna , i might have this replamin plus , I'm going to check my supplies and let you know. If it would help , id be happy to ship it to you


If your local feed story carries it I would be happy to pay for a tube and shipping. I'm happy to pay for it, I just can't stand paying a company $15 MORE than it costs to actually ship an item. It encourages them to continue these horrid shipping rates.

I was going to start giving the whole herd replenamin plus weekly if I can get my hands on a decent supplier.


----------



## Trickyroo

Ok , i have a tube , never opened. Your more then welcome to it 
I can get to the post office tomorrow if that will work for you .


----------



## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> Ok , i have a tube , never opened. Your more then welcome to it
> I can get to the post office tomorrow if that will work for you .


Thank you, I will send you a pm!


----------



## ThreeHavens

Dayna, if you need any material I will send it to you - I'd be happy to donate to helping the little girl.


----------



## Trickyroo

Next time i order for the goats , i'll let you know. 
This way , i can send it to you and it will be cheaper for you


----------



## Dayna

Video from today




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203845572394449


----------



## Dayna

You can see she can't see. Plus about a minute in you can hear the teeth grinding. I think she's playing with her teeth.


----------



## happybleats

Poor baby...I wish we could understand why she keeps going blind...how much B complex is she getting..injectable? how much thiamine...Im grasping here ...This is both a sad but interesting case...She is so blessed to be in your care...and I too want to extend ..if you need anything shipped...I can help with that too...


----------



## mayia97420

she is very active and happy - doesn't appear to see well - have you considered the lighting? - last time her eyes got better right?


----------



## happybleats

Dayna, may i share this on my FB sight..there are a few vets that visit...its a goat emergency page....might get some insight on whats going on...


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> Dayna, may i share this on my FB sight..there are a few vets that visit...its a goat emergency page....might get some insight on whats going on...


Feel free. The more opinions the better I bet!


----------



## NyGoatMom

Goodness Dayna....I hope you can figure this out! She is a doll baby! Just makes you wanna cry, poor lil thing!
You are a blessing for her..........


----------



## Trickyroo

Your going to have a lot of company soon ! 
That Myra needs hugging


----------



## janeen128

Awe!! She is so adorable.......;-) Hoping and praying you get some things figured out, and that her sight will return, and she will start pooping on her own... It seems there is some infection going on though..


----------



## Trickyroo

She obviously has the will to live !!! Watching that video makes me feel so much better about her  Her energy is wonderful , its so good to see that , and I'm sure that is holding you together !


----------



## Dayna

Ohhhh! She really liked the calf manna! Granted I only let her have a tablespoon split in half over a few hours. I don't want to overwhelm her system. But she ate every last little nugget of calf manna.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

That's great! My goats love that stuff too! I'm glad to hear she's still strong! I hope she makes a full recovery soon!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

That's a good thing;-)


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

I wonder if you could find a local pet vet willing to participate in a telephone consultation with one of our livestock vets to collaborate on tests and meds for her...the livestock vet for the exoertise and tje oet vet for the license to issue the meds


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Do you have a local university extension office? Might be a good resource


----------



## happybleats

So far the response I got on my FB sight was Posible Chlam...with the eye issue...she suggested using the LA 200 as an eye drop to see how it helps...

Great she eats the Calf manna...maybe mix with alfalfa pellets?


----------



## Dayna

With the chlamydia why would she be sick, but not her two siblings or her mother? And would she have been born with it? Whatever is wrong with her, she was born with as she was born unable to stand or nurse, at like day three I think started to stand a bit, then day 4-5 couldn't stand again and eyes clouded up.

I don't know how this chlamydia works in goats so I'll have to go research it.


----------



## Dayna

ps her vision is slightly improving today... again....

The white is going away.... again.... and she's not running into stuff as much and not running around with her eyes towards the ceiling.


----------



## Dayna

Also, how much calf manna can she have at one time?


----------



## toth boer goats

Just a pinch mixed with the other stuff to start, then slowly increase a little at a time.


----------



## Dayna

She's not eating other stuff. lol This is what I'm trying to get her to eat anything solid. I'm so confused as to what to do about giving her foods. lol


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'd just offer her a little bit, for her size a tablespoon a few times a day is probably good. Try to get some alfalfa pellets, so she is not getting such a high amount of protein from the manna, and so it will increase the amount of what she's eating, and hopefully help to get her pooping on her own.


----------



## Dayna

alfalfa pellets are so large! How is she going to eat them? 

I wish I could give her rabbit pellets, those are so much smaller in size, like the calf manna. I think thats why she doesn't eat the sweet cob is the chunks are so large. She puts a chunk of sweet cob in her mouth, moves it around and then almost chokes and then spits it out.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

What are the ingredients on the rabbit pellets? Just about all the rabbit pellets out here are actually alfalfa pellets.


----------



## Dayna

It's this one, I'd have to look on the label to see whats exactly in it:

http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/more-species/rabbits/country-feeds-rabbit-feed/index.htm


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Processed Grain By-Products, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Roughage Products, Grain Products, Calcium Carbonate, Molasses Products, Salt, Iron Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Manganous Oxide, Manganese, Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Ferrous Carbonate, Copper Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Folic Acid.


Well those are the ingredients. It doesn't look like there's anything bad in there, but hopefully someone else will chime in.


----------



## Dayna

Here is the tag on the bag, a little different from what you found:


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Hmm, weird, that was the ingredient list posted on a site that sells them :lol:

I think it looks fine, I'd feed it. But to be on the safe side, I'd ask Jill when she gets on


----------



## Dayna

I doubt a teaspoon now with a teaspoon of calf manna will her her anyway since I KNOW my goats have gotten into the rabbit feeders before I put the fence there... hahahaha

So I'm going to go ahead and give her a tiny taste while I see what everyone else thinks. But it does seem pretty safe and has good minerals/vitamins/probiotics in it.


----------



## Dayna

Also what about quaker oats? Like the long cooking (not instant) ones?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yeah, I think it'll be fine  
Either one of the oats will be fine. I feed my girls oatmeal when I'm out of grain, they like it a lot, as long as the aren't stuck eating it for a week, lol!


----------



## kc8lsk

All my goats love rolled oats that's what I used to get one of my bucklings eating grain.


----------



## happybleats

I think I would find alfalfa pellets for rabbits..just plain alfalfa. They do make them with out the added stuff listed on that bag..many of which I cant even pronounce. lol.. If you cant find them then you can get regular size and use a hammer to break them up..you wont have to hit them hard..just enough to make them easy for Myra to nibble on...

I agree with the chlam...and yes..you would think the mom and siblings would be ill as well...it might just be a birth defect...one she hopefully out grows ....but I do know more roughage will help her poo....: ) you can add ground flax and wheat germ to her feed...get more fiber...


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Oats and barley feom the grocrr are fine


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

You can shake the good bits off tje alfalfa hay into the mix


----------



## Dayna

She ate a few of the rabbit pellets with with the calf manna. I think while I'm letting her get used to eating solids I'll keep giving her tiny amount and start mixing in alfalfa pellets that I hammer up and phase out the rabbit pellets.

Here is a video of her eating a couple bites!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203850617360570


----------



## mayia97420

She looks great. The added fiber from the solid feed will hopefully help her poop by herself. Kisses on that cute little nose.


----------



## happybleats

lol..too cute....


----------



## NyGoatMom

She is so flippin' cute!


----------



## Summersun

I say try the rabbit pellets. I had a 50 lb bag left from having rabbits. I fed it to the goats as I didn't want it to waste. They ate it just fine and nothing bad happened.


----------



## janeen128

You could always try and soak the alfalfa pellets. When I first got Bella, and was trying to get her to eat grain, I soaked the alfalfa pellets and she gobbled it right up...;-) Just a suggestion;-)


----------



## Trickyroo

I was going to mention that ^^^ good idea


----------



## nannysrus

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Hmm, weird, that was the ingredient list posted on a site that sells them :lol:
> 
> I think it looks fine, I'd feed it. But to be on the safe side, I'd ask Jill when she gets on


Every plant that mixes the feed is different. You have to find your local manufacturer and call them to get ingredients or the tag off the bag.

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

nannysrus said:


> Every plant that mixes the feed is different. You have to find your local manufacturer and call them to get ingredients or the tag off the bag.


Wouldn't it be the same everywhere if its the same brand and kind?


----------



## nannysrus

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Wouldn't it be the same everywhere if its the same brand and kind?


Sadly no. It is based upon what plant has what. Although it is suppose to meet certain criteria like maintaining the 12% protein or 5% fat. The vitamin and mineral supplementation will be the same but the filler ingredients don't have to be.

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, makes sense. Thanks


----------



## nannysrus

I have taken a bag of purina ultium and it analyzed before and it did not come out with what the label on the bag said. Purina offered me a gift certificate to buy different feeds but what's the point when it's rarely the same.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## goathiker

The rabbit pellets won't hurt her any. There is nothing in them that aren't in a goat grower type feed. .


----------



## Dayna

Well she's going to town eating a teaspoon of calf manna, a teaspoon of rabbit pellets and a tablespoon of oatmeal. 

Maybe she'll poop.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Yay! That sounds great!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 2 nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## mayia97420

Go Myra


----------



## NyGoatMom

I just hope we (meaning TGS)can figure out what is going on with her eyesight....so weird. I showed her video to my DD and she melted!  Such a sweet baby goat!


----------



## janeen128

Too cute;-)


----------



## LadySecret

Just read your whole thread and I second that the eye issue could be caused by chlamydia. Human babies can get chlamydia from their mothers as they pass through the birth cannel causing conjunctivitis (eye infection). Not all of the babies would necessarily get it and it could affect only one eye. I think the eye issue is most likely separate from her other issues.


----------



## LadySecret

Dayna said:


> With the chlamydia why would she be sick, but not her two siblings or her mother? And would she have been born with it? Whatever is wrong with her, she was born with as she was born unable to stand or nurse, at like day three I think started to stand a bit, then day 4-5 couldn't stand again and eyes clouded up.
> 
> I don't know how this chlamydia works in goats so I'll have to go research it.


Chlamydia can be asymptotic in adult men and women. I would think that would be true to goats too.


----------



## toth boer goats

Dayna said:


> alfalfa pellets are so large! How is she going to eat them?
> 
> I wish I could give her rabbit pellets, those are so much smaller in size, like the calf manna. I think thats why she doesn't eat the sweet cob is the chunks are so large. She puts a chunk of sweet cob in her mouth, moves it around and then almost chokes and then spits it out.


Alfalfa pellets can be placed in a blender to make them a bit smaller, just a little bit of them doesn't take long to do.

If a goat doesn't like something but loves another feed, start out with the unliked stuff really slow, a small pinch in with the other the baby likes, then increase just slightly. if the kid tastes it and doesn't want to eat it, you put in too much at that time.


----------



## Trickyroo

Whats baby up to ? Probably sleeping off all the goodies she had , lol.
Glad she's got a good appetite


----------



## janeen128

How is Miss Myra...?


----------



## Dayna

She's doing good! Spending a large portion of her day in her playpen though. I gave her some moringa and some pellets (calf manna, rabbit, and oatmeal) and some hay. I've been ignoring a lot of farm chores by spending so much time with her so I had to get caught up today. 

Not pooping on her own.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I'm wondering if you should give free choice rabbit pellets, the more she eats, the more it should start coming out on it's own.


----------



## janeen128

Awe, bummer on the not pooping on her own... Totally understand about playing catch up..


----------



## Trickyroo

Just saw your post Dayna , i got so scared there for a minute !
How dare you try to play catch up with chores (kidding) !!!
Darn about her not pooping though  What the heck already !!!
Her package should arrive Monday ...


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh , BTW, :scratch: can you set up a live cam so we can all get our Myra fix 24/7 

Just a thought :laugh:


----------



## mayia97420

lol we do need our Myra fix- she is such a cute little fighter. I understand about getting behind when caring for her. - yep you need to catch up - it will decrease your stress level. Kiss Myra's nose for me.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Double post


----------



## NyGoatMom

So glad she's not worse...here's to a poopy day :lol:


----------



## happybleats

are you offering electros between milk bottles? not to replace her milk...but additonal to them..the extra fluids may help with poop as well


----------



## Dayna

No, I am not offering additional fluds. I worry about her having too much electrolytes? I know it can happen in people.

Last night after her enema was kind of hilarious.

Since she can't see, sometimes she walks in circles until she gets to an edge of something that she is familiar with.

So last night, I put the 45 cc's of oil water into her bum... Then she starts this walking in circle bit and the water and little nuggets of poop start flying out in a circular pattern like a sprinkler! Poop and water shot everywhere. I was glad to see all the poop, small nuggest that looked a bit like rabbit pellets!!!!!!

Anyway, it was kind of funny, the poop sprinkler.

then she tried to jump up on the couch. So she's developing a bit more. Trying to climb and jump. So that made me happy as well.

Also when I weighed her she was up to 8.6 pounds! Gaining weight pretty nicely.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Yay!

I wish you got the poop sprinkler on video!! 


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## janeen128

Awe, good to hear;-)


----------



## Dayna

oh my gosh, I wish I had gotten it on video too! Sure was a pain to clean up. lol


----------



## Dayna

Myra has been starting to really eat. As long as she's not in the room with me. I noticed if I leave her in her playpen during the day she's eating more and more!

Here she is munching on some Hibiscus. I have to sneak in (she can't see me) to get photos. As soon as she hears me she stops eating.


----------



## Dayna

On another note, I'm going to start on making her an outdoor pen today or tomorrow. I will likely keep bringing her in at night for a while but I was thinking it's got to be good to start acclimating her to the outdoors.


----------



## mayia97420

Your doing so well with her - are her little "nuggets" berries? I know when my kids were young they were very small like a rabbits.


----------



## ThreeHavens

Yayy!


----------



## happybleats

LOL..That would have beena sight to see lol



> No, I am not offering additional fluds. I worry about her having too much electrolytes


I can understand that...maybe just a few oz a couple of times a day...should be fine : )



> small nuggest that looked a bit like rabbit pellets


rabbit food pellets or poop pellets??


----------



## Dayna

LOL Baby rabbit poop pellets. Very small and very compact and dark. She's been eating fresh stuff pretty good today, plus the rabbit food/calf manna/oatmeal with her regular bottles.

She's so excited and going crazy dancing tonight! I got a video and am uploading it now and I'll put it on here as soon as it's done. SO CUTE SHE IS!


----------



## happybleats

great news !!!!...Now if we can get her to poop on her own!!! cant wait to see her video..


----------



## Dayna

Here is Myra playing! She's so darn cute!!!!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203869772119427


----------



## happybleats

too sweet....how are her eyes doing?? she still seems not to see at all..


----------



## Dayna

Yeah her white spots have shrunk but still cover her pupils. So no seeing.


----------



## happybleats

:sad:..have we tried LA 200 as an eye drop?? cant remember with so much going on...if not..might be time to try...


----------



## Dayna

I've been thinking of trying that. I will start tomorrow. Once a day?


----------



## janeen128

So cute;-) 

I know when I was treating one of my goats with an eye infection I did it once a day;-)


----------



## happybleats

Yes once a day would be what i would do..


----------



## Dayna

Here is a small sample of her twice a day scream fest for getting her peng.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203870121728167


----------



## Skybison

She is so cute with her dancing! I'm glad she is doing better and I hope she continues to do so.


----------



## Skybison

And oh my, I didn't know a goat could sound like that! Poor Myra  

I hate giving shots to animals.


----------



## janeen128

Poor kiddo;-( It will be over soon though.., how many days left?


----------



## happybleats

Im a chicken..I couldnt watch...but I know how loud and heart breaking it can be...((HUGS)) to both you and myra!


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

With her head held up like that ...i kniw its hard to tell since she has vision issues...but that is a stargazing posture that would make me want to give thiamine with the meds. I know u have such limited access and no one can ship u scrip meds. I wonder if u could up the people b12 or convince a pet vet to prescribe u the vitamin...or maybe someone can ship u fortified b complex from jeffers?


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

She is so cute and measurably improving!


----------



## mayia97420

It's so good to see her jumping and playing like the kid she is. Remember screaming helps to build her lungs. I know how difficult it is to give her shots that make her cry like that. sometimes it does hurt us more than them. Keep your spirts up your doing a good job.


----------



## happybleats

I agree wit thiamine...I htink it can make a big difference for her..or fortified b complex for a more complete vitamin....


----------



## LadySecret

OP, on the eye drops... I've never had a vet prescribe eye drops to a goat before but I've had to give antibiotic eye drops to several kittens with conjunctivitis: standard dosing is usually 2 to 3 drops in the affected eye per day. Just an fyi. Antibiotics administered to the eye will be absorbed directly to the eye but most of it will be passed out of the body quickly through the tear ducts. As long as you dilute the antibiotic correctly, I don't think you can over dose with twice a day administration. Eye antibiotics for people are usually at least twice a day administration (I'm a pharmacist). If it were me, I'd probably be pretty aggressive in the eye treatment and give it three times a day. The potential risk is small compared to the potential benefit. That's just my opinion. Your the one with her and know her best so you have to decide. And don't forget YOUR DOING GREAT! You saved her.


----------



## Dayna

I have not been giving her the B complex everyday. I should get the replemin today (thanks trickyroo!!!) so that'll have it in there. Should I give her an extra vit b complex today along with the eye drops and PenG?


----------



## Dayna

okay just gave a human b complex and a couple drops in one eye.


----------



## kc8lsk

Get Vitamin B-1 tablets (thiamine) then you can just crush them and feed them in her bottle


----------



## Skybison

I would be careful with the b complex. I have heard from a few vets that it can be hard on the kidneys if given a lot. I think an adult goat could handle that but I don't know about little Myra, especially with her other issues. But if you can't get straight thiamine it may be the best option.


----------



## toth boer goats

Fortified b complex is safe to use, they pee out what their body doesn't need, it doesn't stay in their system.


----------



## Skybison

That is true, and I wouldn't say it's NOT safe, as I know a lot of people use it in large amounts, but I have been told by a few vets that it can wear out the kidneys. Because if they're going to pee out the excess, It has to filter through the kidneys. 
I'll see if I can find some info on it. 

But Dayna if you can't get straight thiamine, like I said, I'm sure b complex will be fine. I was just worried Myra might be too delicate for a lot of it since she is dealing with other problems at the moment.


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Dayna...do u need someo e to send u the injectable fortified b complex?


----------



## Dayna

I got the replemin from trickyroo today. THANK YOU!!!!!!! I think that along with some the complex every other day maybe or every 3 days should be fine. Or I can cut the pills in half.


----------



## happybleats

I would do the b complex once daily...go for 3 days and see how she is responding...


----------



## Trickyroo

Hows baby doing today Dayna ?


----------



## janeen128

Just checking too;-)


----------



## mayia97420

wondering third


----------



## toth boer goats

And I fourth?


----------



## tasmithmd

Have been following all along--I have given fortified b injections 1 cc per 20 pounds every six hours to sick goats before with no problems- which would be 100mg of thiamine for every 20 pounds, right? Obviously her digestive tract is not functioning normally (no poop on her own) so the oral B pills might not be getting absorbed like they should. I can't imagine it would hurt her to give her a 1/2 cc injection daily for a while. Anything you give orally may or may not be getting absorbed since we know for sure that her intestines, etc aren't up to speed yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Dayna

Okay so the good news first. She's pooping on her own! Last night she pooped some beautiful compact goat nuggets!!! Lots of them, small but lots. I'm so happy.

This morning she scared the poop out of me. I don't know if it's just that she worked herself into a tizzy or what. She seems fine now since I fed her. It got almost this bad for her bottle last night but this morning I got seriously worried.

I went to grab her from her play pen. Stay with me, I'm not good at explaining stuff and I'm still shaking over this. I thougth she was going to die. So I try to grab her from her play pen and she's standing low to t he ground with her head thrown back all the way laying down backwards on her spine and spinning. I thought that was weird so I grab her and bring her to the living room. She starts screaming and wailing and spinning. She spins so hard she falls onto her side and looks like she's seizing (but she's not, I'm very familiar with seizures and this was not one). Then she ends up on her back with her legs sprawled at weird angles thrashing and screaming. I set her upright and she does it again.

I set her upright again and give her the bottle, she's so crazy about it she can barely drink it. She does some weird thing with her body and head not moving together and sucks down 6 ounces in just a few seconds. She's breathing hard and staring off into space for a second. Then starts walking around normal like nothing happened. Meanwhile I'm about crying and shaking and thinking she's going to die right in front of my face. But right this second she's rubbing her horn nubs on the couch.

What gives? WHAT was that? A tantrum? An almost seizure? Something neurological or did she just work herself into a tizzy? 

She weighs exactly 10 pounds this morning. She has no fever. I gave her a B Complex (she had one yesterday too). It has plenty of thiamine in it.

And she just bounced across the living room towards me and seems normal. What the heck?


----------



## kc8lsk

I would say that you were not fast enough with her bottle and you just saw a goatie tantrum


----------



## Cactus_Acres

How is her vision coming? Is she gaining some peripheral vision by any chance, and the experience is hard to process? Having a hard time picturing what she was doing.


----------



## janeen128

I'm thinking tantrum and she threw herself in a tizzy. It would have scared me too though. I've had bottle kids before do that, it's no fun... Hoping that is all it was.. Yay for pooping on her own!


----------



## Dayna

Her vision is still nothing as far as I can tell. Her white spots have shrunk down to almost nothing... so I don't see what keeping her from seeing.

I hope it was a tantrum, that was so scary and weird it really freaked me the heck out.


----------



## NyGoatMom

That sounds neurological to me....seems she has some wires crossed or something....sounds almost like a short circuit. So strange........


----------



## NyGoatMom

Too bad we can't get her an MRI....I really think her brain has a malfunction or something....could be swelling in her head that causes her loss of eyesight...


----------



## happybleats

Not a tantrum..goats dont act that way when upset...something is wrong...I agree with nygoat mom..it sounds nerological..The spasm/siezure and loss of eye sight...there maybe something causing pressure on her brain..I dont mean to scare you...But more needs to be done I really feel she need Banamine or Dex..Pure Thiamine...injected form...if you can not get these things there...maybe we can get them to you...


----------



## Cactus_Acres

Okay, so recap: what is she getting right now aside from milk?

What has her reaction been to anti-inflammatories? Does she appear to get ANY vision improvement when on them? Are you giving them at the same time as antibiotics, so while the antibiotic appears to be helping her improve, it may really be the anti-inflammatory? 

Did she startle right before that episode? Could startling lead to some "crossing wires" as a PP suggested?


----------



## Dayna

She's never been on anti inflammatory meds.

I have a large amount of dexamethasone pills, could I find a way to use that?


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh Dayna :hug: Holy poop :tear: That is sooo scary !

Banamine sounds like a good idea IMO. 
I feel the same way , i think its neurological…..Geez , this is crazy !
Poor baby , but Dayna , I'm feeling so bad for you right now , i don't know how your holding yourself up doing all this for her !


----------



## Dayna

She's on:

Supplements:
B Complex
Replamin plus (tiny bit so far)
Probiotics

Milk

has access to
Hay
rabbit pellets
calf manna
oatmeal
moringa branches
hibiscus branches


----------



## Cactus_Acres

I am not familiar with dex pills (I've only dealt in dex injectable), so I will sit that part out, but I am really thinking more and more like these other good folks, that there is a neuro component. Her gut sluggishness screams inflammation too (I have a human kid who has had digestive issues off and on along side his autism dx).


----------



## Dayna

She's acting totally normal right now. I'm confused as to how it could come and go like that. I think I need to do some reading and thinking.


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

I second the pure thiamine


----------



## Dayna

She does seem to be pooping on her own now. No enema yesterday or yet today.


----------



## Dayna

Can I do pure thiamine pills? I don't have access to an injectable. Our feed stores are very poorly stocked. I have to even ship in loose minerals part of the year.


----------



## NubianFan

That sounds neurological to me too. I don't think that was a tantrum.


----------



## happybleats

Dayna..I can send some to you..start with the pill..because its better then nothing...then start the injections when you get them...hopefully it wont take very long....

the only thing new I see you are going is the replem..which is a vitamin booster it looks like...the thing is very little will be absorbed...some..but not much..this is why we say injected...if she has another episode..I would stop the replem and see if that helps...since its the only thing new she has had....I doubt its the problem..but just in case...


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

My thought too is her intestines are still getting going so they arent up to par on absorbing nutrients esp. Micronutrients that enter the body orally


----------



## Trickyroo

This may be silly , but , could her pooping on her own caused the seizure or episode she had ? You know , like they say never push too hard……you know what i mean ? I don't know how else to explain it…
But maybe , since she has finally gone , maybe that was the hardest thing for her , and now it will be easier……am i grasping at straws here ?


----------



## Dayna




----------



## Trickyroo

Awwwww , there's the baby  What a beautiful picture !
Love it ! Your her momma for sure , no doubt about it , lol.
Something is off with the resemblance though , i just can't put my finger on it , lol.


----------



## Dayna

hahahahaha! She has her poppas eyes and my smile! hehe


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## happybleats

She is a doll. Tricky I understand where you are going with that...theres a chance its related..yes...or progressing


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## Dayna

I am going to go do more chores now and think about this thread and what I need to do.


----------



## janeen128

Awe, so cute;-) Maybe Trickyroo is onto something..., possibly. I'm glad she is okay now whatever it was. I just know 2 of my bottle babies had weird things like that, I had to calm them down before I gave them the bottle.. It only happened once or twice, but you did mention spinning which mine never did. Hope you can figure it out..


----------



## Trickyroo

Im glad you guys understand that , lol.. I thought i was thinking way too much , lol.. I so want her to get better , we gotta figure it out !


----------



## toth boer goats

There she is, so adorable.


----------



## Dayna

I just videod her. I would say this is about 50% of the drama I had this morning.

Tantrum or neuro? This morning she ended up on her back thrashing... but she was not as hungry this time as she was this morning.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203885996845035



please excuse all the cardboard, I collect it for the garden.... though it makes me look like a hoarder!


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I think the issue going on with what she's doing in the video is she's doing the stargazing thing (thiamine is needed), and looks like she has the uncoordinated walk and off balance thing (like ataxia, also linked to polio or a copper def). And she looks like she is simply frustrated with not being able to see, and having her issues, so when she gets frustrated it most likely is the reason why it goes from weird looking to the point it scared you. 

I'll be hoping the replamin you got for her from Laura will solve a lot of the issues, and the B1 will fix the stargazing. I am leaning more toward the copper def about the way she walks, because copper deficiency does cause neuro problems and the way she is walking/stumbling and falling.


----------



## Dayna

I have copper pills, should I do the math for that dose or keep using the replamin for that?


----------



## goathiker

You're going to have to get the injectible treatments for her. I'm leaning toward congenital Chlamydiosis or Mycoplasma. 

Cathy, I'll send you $10 toward Banamine and Tylan. I'd do more if I could.


----------



## mayia97420

I can send some the end of the week. Need address - pm it too me.


----------



## goathiker

I think Cathy was going to send Thiamine. I'll send $10 where ever. It will help pay for a flat rate box.


----------



## Dayna

You guys are all great. Money is an issue, I wish it wasn't and I wasn't going to really post about money on here.

I just listed some clothes on facebook for sale to raise up some money to help pay for some more stuff for her. I have $125 earmarked for a ram that I can't dip into, I need that ram for the future of the farm. UGH, why is it when I have a few bucks I find too much that I need to spend it on.


----------



## ThreeHavens

I don't have any money to give right now but I do have anti-biotics. When I get paid I can see what I can do for the little girl. What exactly do you need? If you list what you need to treat her maybe some of us can help each other pitch in.


----------



## happybleats

I agree...she needs injectable! I'll send Thiamine...and banamine tomorrow...she needs both I think, I dont have Tylan, but I can pick some up....Just pm your address and I will get it in the mail tomorrow...

in the mean time keep with the oral...its better then nothing right now...Try to keep her calm so she doesnt have an episode...instead of calling her..go to her...hold her for her bottles ect...

Jill ,for chlam do we want to give LA 200 or tylan 200?? I cant pick up either..


----------



## Dayna

Looks like I need injectable thiamin and an antibiotic that is called Nuflor? I have a huge bottle of PenG and a huge bottle of LA200.


----------



## Dayna

Someone mentioned banamine but I don't know why/what for.


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> I agree...she needs injectable! I'll send Thiamine...and banamine tomorrow...she needs both I think, I dont have Tylan, but I can pick some up....Just pm your address and I will get it in the mail tomorrow...
> 
> in the mean time keep with the oral...its better then nothing right now...Try to keep her calm so she doesnt have an episode...instead of calling her..go to her...hold her for her bottles ect...
> 
> Jill ,for chlam do we want to give LA 200 or tylan 200?? I cant pick up either..


I have LA200 but everyone said not to give that to her as it'll mess up her bones????


----------



## happybleats

for Chlam La 200 is usally used,,and yes it can cause some issues with development..Jill shared some information with me that seems to be less risky then we are told..in her case I think the risk is well warrented...

Im wondering why Jill suggest Tylan..hopefully she wil chime in : ) 

Banamine will help reduce the inflammation around her brain...I have some I will send as well


----------



## goathiker

Banamine is for the brain swelling. Treatment for Chlamydia or Myco when you don't know which it is, is Tylan. If it is Myco, PenG makes the symptoms worse. Both cause blindness, transit lameness, fever, brain swelling, etc. This is not the same Chlamydia that causes abortions. 

At the same time we are covering Polio as well.


----------



## happybleats

Ok..Tylan it is then :wink:...Ill get this together and put int hemail tomorrow..


----------



## Dayna

So you think the "fits" I've been seeing when she's stressed out is due to brain swelling? I've dealt with brain swelling in myself so I do understand that prolonged crying, constipation (pushing), sneezing, caughing, etc can make symptoms appear when you have swelling on the brain.

Is there anyway I can use the dexamethasone pills? I have a billion of them leftover from my Moms brain cancer.


----------



## happybleats

Yes..brain swelling can cause those symptoms...Ill let jill discuss the dex pills.. : )


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## Dayna

Is this the right drug? I can order it off amazon prime right now with my hubbys credit card.

http://www.amazon.com/Elanco-698263...&qid=1415839567&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=tylan


----------



## goathiker

I've never used it (Dex) actually and I've never seen anyone use it orally. One thing I do know is that it must be used with an antibiotic because it destroys the immune system.


----------



## goathiker

Yes Tylan 50 will be easier to dose for her tiny little self.


----------



## Dayna

Okay, I ordered it. According to amazon I'll should have it in a week.


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## Dayna

If need be and it's considered not as bad as thought, I can start her on LA200 today and if the LA200 doesn't work then use the Tylan when it gets here? Or not?

Updated amazon just sent me Estimated delivery: Nov. 18, 2014 - Nov. 24, 2014


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## goathiker

Yeah, the Tetracycline might pull the trick. Dose would be 1/2 cc. Her growth will slow down 40% while you're using it, that should be all that happens.


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## Dayna

Okay, how often do I dose her? I will start tonight.


----------



## happybleats

La 200 should be once a day..sub q...


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## Dayna

okay evening shots it is. It's easier for me to do evening shots as my hubby is home and I have more moral support for her screaming.


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## Trickyroo

I just came back in from tucking in my guys and I'm just so proud of this forum , I'm teary eyed ! How flipping awesome of everyone here to help get medicine to Myra ! Im practically speechless and thats VERY unusual for me . Way to go guys :group hug:


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## toth boer goats

Very good advice.



Hugs Laura 
:hug:


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## happybleats

Dayna..remember La 200 stings ALOT ..so expect a reaction and the need to give extra cuddles....and rub rub rub!


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## Dayna

Okay, so hubby came home with 250mg B1 (Thiamine) with calcium. Thiamine 250mg calcium 102mg. That was all he could find. 

How much do I give her and how often?


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## happybleats

Is this injectable? Thiamine at 250 mg would be 2 cc per 100#, every six hours...so for a 10# goat..it would be less then 1/4 cc but I would go ahead and give 1/4 cc....not sure with it blended with calcium...CALLING JILL!!!!!!!! lol...


----------



## Dayna

it's pills we don't have injectable here


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I've been following this thread.. I'm praying for your little girl.. What a wonderful family we have here on TGS all pulling together  :hug: 

Praying for you baby, wish I could do more.. But, work isn't too good here right now...


----------



## Dayna

I gave her a half crushed in a bottle just now. I wanted to get a dose in her asap so if it's more than half I'll make a milk paste and give her the rest that way.


----------



## happybleats

Ok....I would have no idea what dose then lol...but I think you need to do what you can...Ill get your goodies in the mail first thing!
Thiamine
Banamine and 

you ordered the Tylan?? correct?


----------



## goathiker

I would do half a capsule at a time so the calcium doesn't make the constipation worse.


----------



## Dayna

I did order tylan!


----------



## NyGoatMom

How is she tonight? Still doing the same thing?


----------



## Trickyroo

Im dreading those LA200 shots and I'm not even giving them to her 

Im glad your hubby can be there when giving those ! Dayna , you might want ear plugs , and I'm not kidding either…..im just thinking about when you were giving her the penicillin .
Knowing how she would yell with that shot made me ill. I wish i could take it for her


----------



## Dayna

Here is a bit more of the weirdness:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203887235315996


----------



## Dayna

Pooping on her own, spinning a bit more than i would like, but otherwise okay this evening.


----------



## Trickyroo

I know there is something wrong , neurological , but for some reason i get the feeling that she is just so aggravated with not being able to see.
That poor thing  Myra , dang it , your going to get better even if you don't want to !!!! Don't make me come there missy !!


----------



## NyGoatMom

Poor baby! I so hope she gets better....just makes you wanna hold her 

You must be getting tired Dayna :hug:


----------



## NubianFan

I see a goat kid that despite all odds is a fighter. She has so much go wrong in her short life yet she is determined to live. She is fighting hard even with the restricted to no vision and now losing control of her motor skills. Dayna I know that without you she wouldn't have made it, you have done so much for and with her, I just want to say I think if she can get over this thiamine deficiency hump I think she will be okay, because she is determined.


----------



## Trickyroo

I agree !


----------



## happybleats

Im sure she is frustrated Tricky...it may not be the cause of her issue..but it sure doesnt help...


----------



## Dayna

I just gave her the dose. And the bottle, while not new doesn't expire till May 2015. It smelled kinda fishy... Am I screwed? Did I just give her a bad antibiotic?


----------



## Dayna

BTW its terravet 200 not LA200, though they are the same drug.


----------



## Dayna

Maybe fishy is not the right word but it smelled weird. Anyway hope it's okay.


----------



## goathiker

Tetracycline turns dark brown when it goes off.


----------



## Dayna

Its not really dark brown, but a medium brown. Though, I seem to remember that its been this color since I bought it?


----------



## goathiker

Yeah, it will be a medium or reddish brown when exposed to air. When it goes bad it gets really dark.


----------



## Dayna

Maybe I should take a picture of the antibiotic. Now I'm freaked out that I'm giving her something toxic.


----------



## happybleats

I dont carry La 200 but have read it can turn color...here is a write up on it..
http://www.fws.gov/fisheries/aadap/10_Oxytet injectable/06_MSDSs/MSDS 9027_OTC injection.pdf

it only says in section 10 air can darken the medication


----------



## toth boer goats

It does turn darker, call the manufacturer or the vet and see what they say.

What is the expiration date on it?


----------



## glndg

Calling the manufacturer or vet is a good idea, but it is probably not going to hurt her. It may not be as effective though. In water, in the light, it turns dark quickly -- it just means that it has lost its effectiveness. We used it with rabbits and it never hurt them when it changed color in the water.

Maybe you could set up a Go Fund Me account to accept donations.

Below is Ann Peterson's Go Fund Me site as an example. You could put one for you on your facebook page since you have pictures and video there. I bet that you'd get donations.

http://www.gofundme.com/11ipw0


----------



## janeen128

I was also thinking of the "gofundme" account for Myra... It might be worth looking into;-)

Yep, LA200 turns a darker color after opening it. It should be fine, but checking with your vet etc. is a good idea.


----------



## Dayna

I don't have a goat vet so there is no way to check with them. There is an emergency vet I can use but they don't answer questions over the phone. Office visits only.

It doesn't expire until May of 2015 so thats not the problem. She seems fine today so I figure its okay.

If it doesn't get the job done because it's gotten weakened., i ordered that Tylan antibiotic and that should work.


----------



## marge

*order meds*

I bet things really limited on the island. have you looked at how quick valley vet can get you stuff? They are usually pretty quick.


----------



## happybleats

as long as its not expired it shouldbe just fine....


----------



## toth boer goats

I agree.


----------



## Trickyroo

Hows baby ?


----------



## Dayna

She's 10.2 pounds today. Normal temp. Not seeing. Pooping on her own still (yahoo!). Eating 6 ounces of milk per bottle. Eating a blend of rabbit pellets, calf manna, oatmeal and I started adding in some alfalfa pellets.

Hopping around being her cute self! Still collapsing on the floor right before bottle time. I've tried calming her down but it's not use. She just ends up on the floor just a mess.

I'm giving her those thamine pills, so far no change.


----------



## nannysrus

The video you posted of her circling and going crazy looks like she is freaking out because she can't find the bottle. Like she is extremely hungry and knows it's their but she can't find it. We have a bottle baby who is a little older now and when it comes time to feed she does almost the exact same thing as Myra was doing except not sucking with her mouth. Myra is getting down like she is trying to nurse but getting very aggravated because she can't find anything.

Poor little girl. I hope you get her straitened out. 




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Trickyroo

Geez….she improves in ways but takes steps back in others , I'm so upset about this  

I think i read somewhere that coconut oil is good for seizures…..i could be wrong , just thinking out loud here….


----------



## nannysrus

Doesn't look like seizures to me. With her not being to see well and getting rolled over on her back it looks like she is disoriented and can't figure up from down. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Trickyroo

You think ? Well that would be much better then a seizure !


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Yeah I don't think it's seizures, I said earlier it looks like she is just frustrated because she can't see and she gets disoriented. I don't know, doesn't look like a seizure to me, after firsthand witnessing seizures in people and dogs. :chin:


----------



## nannysrus

All she has to do is spin and flop enough to get the fluid in her ears moving. Once that happens it's going to throw her balance off. If she begins to throw a tantrum an starts circling it can cause the fluid to become unbalanced. (Same as a person spinning and getting dizzy) now, because Myra relies on her ears because she can't see well it's going to make the issue that much worse because she is now relying on her ears which are unbalance due to the spinning and she will become unable to stand and then by falling down he has a lot of difficulty getting to her feet.

Try spinning around until you are really dizzy, lay down, and get back up. It's not so easy. 




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## goathiker

This is what Mycoplasmosis looks like.


----------



## Trickyroo

Now is it the thiamine that she needs Jill to control this or was that something else ?


----------



## nannysrus

Jill- will they act like that all the time or just have episodes?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

This is the vet book definition of Mycoplasmosis:
Kids infected with Mycoplasma mycoides mycoides (large colony variant) or other Mycoplasma spp may show severe lameness with multiple hot swollen joints, weight loss, pyrexia, and poor coats. Some have diarrhea, and some have increased lung sounds and respiratory rates. Affected kids are generally 2–4 wk old. Morbidity and mortality rates of 90% and 30%, respectively, have been reported. Adult does with Mycoplasma infection may have mastitis and polyarthritis. Treatment is with tetracycline, tylosin, or tiamulin, but prognosis for complete recovery is guarded.


----------



## goathiker

Thiamine to heal the nerves
Banamine to control the brain swelling
Tylosin to kill the bacteria

None of it will hurt her to try.


----------



## Trickyroo

I could use some thiamine right about now..


----------



## goathiker

That's a pretty generalized definition but helpful for some. There are 14 different types of Myco and 8 different kinds of Chlamidia. The ones I'm looking at are commonly carried by rodents and (sorry Dana) Parrots.


----------



## Trickyroo

Geez ! Scary stuff !


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

goathiker said:


> That's a pretty generalized definition but helpful for some. There are 14 different types of Myco and 8 different kinds of Chlamidia. The ones I'm looking at are commonly carried by rodents and (sorry Dana) Parrots.


I was only aware of 5 myco, the conjunctivitis, arthritis, septicemia, mastitis, and respiratory.


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh God help this little angel , I'm really hoping and praying she gets past this or it can be controlled with the right meds...


----------



## goathiker

Here's 15, I wasn't looking at M. genitalium because that's Herpes. 

M. fermentans, M. genitalium, M. hominis, M. penetrans, 
Mycoplasma pneumoniae, M. pulmonis, Mycoplasma gallisepticum, M. hyopneumoniae, M. mobile, M. mycoides, Mesoplasma florum, Ureaplasma urealyticum/parvum, Phytoplasma asteris, M. pirum, M. salivarium.


----------



## Dayna

This is incredibly overwhelming.


----------



## glndg

Maybe this guy would help you over the phone or on Facebook....someone mentioned him in another thread.
http://www.gofundme.com/awrn7w

Do you have injectable thiamine on the way? One of the things, aside from blindness and circling that is mentioned is "excitability." Maybe being hungry sets that off. More than likely, she has more than one thing affecting her, but injectable thiamine couldn't hurt.

Oh, I see now that Cathy is sending thiamine. That's great.


----------



## goathiker

There's Thamine and Banamine on the way.


----------



## nannysrus

Oh lord-wow goathiker- your going to have my brain going for a while tonight. 

Is Myra around the birds? Are they loose in the house or in a specific room? 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

Myra is sure teaching us alot here!! my prayers and thoughts are with her and you Dayna!!...((hugs))..


----------



## Dayna

Myra has never been around the birds. Myra did not come from my farm. Myra has in no way been exposed to a parrot disease. 

Sorry that sounds sharp, I was in a hurry, I just wanted to make sure thats ruled out 100%. Every other animal, there is a chance she has been exposed to.


----------



## goathiker

No, I think that Myra was born with what ever it is, which is something else I was looking at. I just end up off on tangents when looking things up. Nothing really needs worked out. 

IF it is Chlamydia the Tetracycline will kill it.
IF it is Mycoplasma the Tylosin will kill it. 
If it is Thiamine deficiency, that's covered too. 
If it is brain swelling, covered as well. 

She's a mystery girl for sure and trying to explain her takes a person many different directions. 

NannysRus- there are actually well over 100 Myco bacteriums. It's a catch phrase that just means bacteria without a cell wall, like Folliculitis means your skin is broke out for some reason.


----------



## Trickyroo

My head hurts…..:shock:


----------



## NyGoatMom

Poor baby.... I feel so helpless to, well....help  but I think about her daily and hope she pulls out of this!


----------



## nannysrus

Trickyroo said:


> My head hurts&#8230;..:shock:


Yours and mine both. I'm trying to absorb all this and got a lot going on here that the vets are no help with.

Dayna- I didn't mean anything against the birds. The only bird I own is a chicken (because I'm mortified of any other bird). I agree with Jill on thinking whatever she has wrong she was born with. She sure is fighter though. I'm not sure how you will ever be able to move her out in the barn though :-D

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## janeen128

I think about her often in fact every time I go out to the barn I tell my almost 2 week old kids about Myra, and how fortunate they are... I know, they don't understand...LOL, I basically talk to all my critters as though they are my children... I feel helpless as well, I am also hopeful she will pull through, she's a little fighter... A very cute/lovable fighter might I add...;-) Praying for her & you...;-)


----------



## Dayna

She spent the evening climbing on me, jumping on me, etc. She's so sweet. She was even not horrid for her shot tonight. Still spinning.


----------



## happybleats

Im wondering if by chance there is some toxin she is being exposed to..unknowing...something perhaps she is sensitive to. For example...Pinesol...I know some dogs can start having siezures when exposed long term?? She was improving...but then kept loosing her sight..now she lost sight and begins the siezure like episode..like what ever she is exposed to is increasing toxcity is causing more symptoms...I understand Chlam will progress as well...just another thought...Maybe start looking and see what we come up with...I think together we can figure this out...

Dayna..you are providing Myra every chance and some...once you get the Banamine and Thiamine...you will have covered most the bases...even though we are not physically there..we are walking this road with you...:hug:


----------



## goathiker

That's great she's doing better with her shots. I wondered, Pen G is so thick and nasty.


----------



## goathiker

Oh, that's a good thought as well Cathy. My dog was having seizures from a food allergy.


----------



## Dayna

Any chance it could be something my momma goats are eating and passing on in the milk?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Never know? Maybe try pasteurizing it for a few days and see what happens? :shrug:


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Apparently joint ill can cause lameness blindness digestuve issues and neuro symptoms also. Are we giving enough penG to cross the brain barrier? Im still on board with thiamine issues but just in case any infection is causing neuro symptoms...theres the many times a day day high dose pen that might help


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

One area like lameness can recover with the bacteria settling in anither...such as the eyes and then crissing into the brain


----------



## happybleats

yes..joint ill can become sepsis and can settle in joints or kidney and bladder...Ive not read it causeing nuero issues or blindness???


----------



## happybleats

Try mopping your floors with plain water and vinegar...check for other cleaners you use..air fresheners, sprays...candles ect...things we dont normally think of as "bad" can be lethal to some animals...with Myra being fragil...it could be almost anything...wash her bedding with plain vinegar in the washer as well....anything you can think of...

I would also stop all grain...just give hay and milk....see if that helps any...


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

Mayia here
Dayna, you are doing the most fabulous care for Myra. We all research and brainstorm for you but you are the one who has to make the decisions. You can see what works and what does not. I think you the most wonderful caretaker she could have. I understand how difficult it is can be. You are not alone, we are here for you. Take some time for yourself - don't let yourself get worn out.


----------



## tasmithmd

When you get the thiamine, if it is 100mg/ml I would inject her with 1/2 cc every six hours for a couple of days at least. I really think she needs it- I don't think she is able to absorb the oral stuff so well- what does everyone else think?


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

I think Dayna deserves the goat mommy of the year award


----------



## janeen128

hallsthirdacrefarm said:


> I think Dayna deserves the goat mommy of the year award


I second that!;-)


----------



## Dayna

I will rewash her bedding. I use white vinegar already on the floors. I'm kind of an anti chemical person except when it comes to door knobs and toilets. No air fresheners or anything like that. I have a pumpkin spice candle that was my Moms that I burn a couple times a year to remind me of her and I don't think I've lit that since Myra has been here.

I have some free and clear laundry soap that I'll use for her.


----------



## happybleats

JUST KEEP GOING DOWN THE LIST,AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF....SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE PRETTY CHEM FREE...MIGHT NOT BE THE ISSUE AT ALL BUT ITS WORTH A LOOK AT...ALSO LOOK TO ANY HOUSE PLANTS..ECT..IM TRYING TO THINK WHAT ELSE...ALSO CONSIDER WHAT SHE IS EATING AND DRINKING OTHER THEN MILK...AND WHAT MOMS ARE EATING WHO ARE PROVIDING MILK...MAN WHAT A LIST!!! BUT IT WONT TAKE LONG TO ELIMINATE EACH ONE ...FINGERS CROSSED AND GOOD THOUGHTS SENT....

sorry for the caps...I didnt see it on until I was typeing too much to want to start over HEHEHE


----------



## Dayna

LOL!

yeah no houseplants either. I'll keep thinking.


----------



## kc8lsk

Darn her hide she's supposed to be all good now after all everybody loves her.


----------



## Dayna

update.

The white spots on her eyes have turned tan. At first I thought maybe the LA200 drops but then I realized no, I was only doing that in one eye to see if there was a change. No change.

But the white spots are now tan. Is that bad?


----------



## happybleats

Dors she seem to see any better?


----------



## Dayna

no, no better.


----------



## happybleats

very strange.....more research....


----------



## toth boer goats

That is strange, unless her site is coming back in full?
Wasn't it cloudy white before?

Can you get a pic of her eye?


----------



## Dayna

Getting her to hold still is impossible.

However you can see it's not white like it was.


----------



## happybleats

pic is hard to tell..lol..little stinker...is the color turning redish brown?? nothing raised ?


----------



## goathiker

Are her eyes getting dry? You might put some rewetting solution or saline in there to see if it helps.


----------



## Dayna

okay... I took like a hundred photos. Here's a few of her eyeballs and maybe just a cute one of two because I can. i tried to get different lighting, etc.














































My sweet little girl.


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

She is too darn cute! 

Do her pupils dilate or constrict? If you turn a light on in the dark do you see a reflection in her eyes?


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

Lol..she is cute......
To add another question...is that white.spot.raised?


----------



## Dayna

I will see about the dark later. I can't see that the spot on her eye is raised. It seems flat. I will inspect it closer tonight when I'm done with chores.


----------



## Trickyroo

Is it possible she has no tears and has clogged tear ducts or something like that ?


----------



## happybleats

you can gently massage her eye area...I would also put neospordin in them to keep them moist and it also may treat what ever is goin on..


----------



## Dayna

That's an interesting idea, to use the neo and massage. I'll try that. I tried the neo before but never gently rubbing it in.


----------



## happybleats

I would massage the duct area with a soft cloth with warm water just to see if its plugged...THEN put neo on..I wouldnt massage with it...:wink:


----------



## Dayna

She has tears when she cries really hard for too long so does mean it's not plugged? I didn't think goats cry, but she does. Maybe that's a bad thing?


----------



## Cactus_Acres

Clear tears, right? Not goopy at all?


----------



## Dayna

Yes clear. She has shown no signs of eye infection other than blindness and the tan/white spots over her pupils.


----------



## happybleats

I would think they are fine then...the neo might support the meds in clearing up the blindness?? wont hurt : )


----------



## toth boer goats

Her eyes look good, kinda strange with the pupil color being white, not black.

She is adorable.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

I know at the beginning of this, we discussed entropion, or inverted eyelids. Have you made sure that those eyelashes are not turned in? If not, the drops will lubricate the eye, the eye will get better, then worse, then better. Finally causing blindness. It is a painful condition. Not related to her belly, but maybe she is trying desperately to roll her eyes upwards to get away from the pain?

It's just a thought, grabbing at stews here.


----------



## happybleats

> grabbing at stews here.[/QUOTE
> 
> That must be a Pennsylvania thing lol..we grab straws here in Texas HEHEHE
> 
> :laugh:


----------



## NyGoatMom

happybleats said:


> grabbing at stews here.[/QUOTE
> 
> That must be a Pennsylvania thing lol..we grab straws here in Texas HEHEHE
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> :ROFL: :ROFL:
Click to expand...


----------



## janeen128

Haha!! I noticed that too


----------



## NubianFan

I don't know about y'all but I'd rather grab at stews than straws. At the end you have a nice bowl of stew whereas there isn't much you can do with one piece so straw.... 
Just as long as you don't burn your hands grabbing at the stew.


----------



## Trickyroo

How is Baby Myra today Dayna ?


----------



## janeen128

Yeah, how is Ms. Myra today?


----------



## Dayna

Still about the same.

How long am I supposed to do the LA200 for? Also she's up to 11.4 pounds! Gaining weight so fast!!!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Lol. Nope, we grab straws here too. Stupid auto correct!


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

The way she is growing you R doing something right. You have my vote for Mom of the year too.


----------



## janeen128

Dayna said:


> Still about the same.
> 
> How long am I supposed to do the LA200 for? Also she's up to 11.4 pounds! Gaining weight so fast!!!


In the eye, or injection? I actually think it's 5 days, but not too sure on that so hopefully someone who knows without a doubt will chime in...


----------



## Dayna

The injection


----------



## Trickyroo

Wow , she is gaining nicely ! Im praying this makes her stronger overall and fighting what is plaguing her !
Is she pooping on her own ?

Im also curious to learn how long with the LA200….someone will be on that can answer that soon I'm sure 

It took her so long to be able to poop on her own , I'm thinking all the things wrong will take just as long to right themselves.


----------



## happybleats

how many days has LA 200 been? 5-7 days to start is what I would do...any change in the episodes?


----------



## Dayna

no change. she is pooping on her own though.


----------



## happybleats

Pooping on her own is huge..means her insides are working  and she is gaining weight too so that is great...we just need to figure out those siezure things!! and her eyes...hopefully once the banamine and Thiamine gets there it will make the difference...


----------



## nannysrus

The fact that she is pooping on her own and she is gaining weight are great. I honestly would have expected with all this going on for her not to gain very well but she seems to be doing good!!! 

She definitely has a strong will to survive. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## toth boer goats

LA200 is 5 to 7 days.

Do not injection it in the eye to be clear. It is drops in the eye (no needle)


----------



## Dayna

I got the package today from happybleats. Thank you so much!


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Hopefully the episodes stop with the thiamine! Good luck! I'm praying for this little gal! Your doing great with her!!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Oh wow... So sorry... I had to delete that... That was supposed to be in the chat thread...... 

Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

So glad u got the package! I kept thinking...if only that thiamine would get there soon! She is such a little fighter


----------



## Trickyroo

Yay :clap: I'm really hoping its the thiamine that she needs !


----------



## happybleats

sending good thoughts!!!


----------



## janeen128

Yay!! Here's hoping and praying that this is what she needed;-)


----------



## toth boer goats

Prayers sent. Thiamine is given in a muscle.


----------



## happybleats

I give thiamine sub Q...


----------



## Dayna

I am down for the count today. I will have to see if I can find a syringe I can use here. I have some insulin ones somewhere that I can convert via the internet to cc's I think

I have yellow splotches all down my throat and I feel really run down so no going to the store today, no leaving the house.

I just dragged myself out of bed so when I've had my coffee and can think properly I'll see what I can find syringe wise.


----------



## Trickyroo

Hope you feel better soon Dayna :hug:


----------



## happybleats

Ugh....im sorry your sick!..make a warm tea of cinnamon cayenne pepper, acv and honey..gargle often ...very effective...
Feel better soon


----------



## janeen128

So sorry to hear you are sick! That's no fun 

Thanks Happybleats for that recipe...


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

Insulin syringes are 1/2 or 1cc- each. says on package.


----------



## Dayna

Wow am I lucky or what?

My head hurts soooo bad. I stumbled into my room just now to "try" to look for some extra syringes.

The very first box I grab, right on top, is a brand new 1cc syringe!


----------



## Dayna

ugh I am NOT lucky. It's an oral use only syringe!!!! a needle won't fit on it. Back to looking I guess.


----------



## happybleats

fingers crossed!!


----------



## Dayna

okay now I found one. It's used so it's disinfecting right now. and will hold a needle. GEEZE.


----------



## Dayna

okay she was given 1/10cc banamine and 1/10th cc thiamine.

So according to what you sent happybleats, she gets the banamine once a day and the thiamine every 6 hours?


----------



## Dayna

Also I see Myras brothers listed for sale for the beginning of dec. Their horns are so much bigger, her's are just budding!

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/grd/4767153442.html

Though she's been outside in her little pen today. It started raining and I was going to freak out and run out and get her, but then I realized she moved under the covered part... and didn't mind being outside at all. I was more upset over the rain than her! lol


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

They are cute too but Myra has my heart


----------



## happybleats

you are correct on the daily doses Dayna, once a day for banamine and every 6 hours for thiamine.....of course I based that amount on 10 #...so adjust if need be 
: )


----------



## Dayna

Here's a quick little update video I took this evening. She's such a joy.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203923686867262


----------



## janeen128

Awe, so cute!!;-)


----------



## happybleats

lol..never gets old watching her...I hope you are feeling better today!!


----------



## Trickyroo

She is precious Dayna  Hope your feeling better today honey


----------



## toth boer goats

Too cute.

Not sure why she is tilting her head back like that though.


----------



## Trickyroo

I think its from her not being able to see…..hopefully the thiamin helps with that...


----------



## tasmithmd

If she is 10 pounds I would definitely give 1/2 cc thiamine every 6 hours


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


----------



## Trickyroo

Bless her little heart , i can't believe how good she is gaining 
That little ten pounds of love is just amazing 
Why i get the urge to listen to Stevie Wonder's "Isn't She Lovely" i have no idea...:scratch: :dance::laugh:


----------



## goathiker

toth boer goats said:


> Not sure why she is tilting her head back like that though.


Watching this last video, I kind of had a feeling that all she can see is the light on the ceiling so, she looks at what she can see.


----------



## Dayna

She does look up when I turn a light on in a dark room so she can see that at least, which is probably why she's always aiming her head up.


----------



## Dayna

If her body will just pee out unused thiamine then I'd rather give her the 1/10th of a cc than a 1/2 cc so it's not wasted. I only have a bit.


----------



## Dayna

It seems that no matter the angle my kid and I have the same smile. lol










Myra eating some hibiscus:


----------



## kc8lsk

Well at least she can find the food :laugh: even though I have never known a goat not to be able to find food when they are ready to eat.


----------



## Dayna

My plan is to build her a special blind goat pen where her food/water are under cover and never move locations. Along with a couple things to jump/play on that don't have sharp corners. As long s stuff doesn't move she should be fine to play on blocks of concrete, rocks, maybe a balance beam, that sort of thing.


----------



## Dayna

She's 11.8 pounds today of goat naughtiness! lol She's chewing on my everything. My arms, my clothes, my hair. UGH.


----------



## kc8lsk

Should be just fine she'll stumble a few times but will soon learn her way around. Too bad annabel's buckling wasn't a doeling


----------



## Dayna

Yeah, I wish he was a girl too! Bonnie is due soon and if she has a doeling it's sold as a milking bottle doeling to a friend across the Island, she's been wanting a kid from me for a while. Bonnie usually has 3-4 kids. She's never been bred to a ND though so..... I have no idea if she'll have less. And he was a young buckling when he bred her. I have less than 20 days to wait to find out though!

Anyway, more does due in February so eventually she'll get a doe friend.


----------



## happybleats

lol..she is cute and yes..you do have the same smile 

blind goats adapt very well..hearing becomes sharper...once she has a buddy, a bell around his/her neck will help her know where he/she is at ...you can teach her buddy the comand..go get your sister 

if the thiamine seems to be working...I can send more if she needs it...or if you can get fortified B complex that will work too...just let me know


----------



## goathiker

The 1/10th cc dose is right on the Thiamine. That is the 500 mg per ml Thiamine so the dose is 5 times less than for the regular stuff.


----------



## Dayna

So far there has been no change in her vision or her stressed out feeding time behavior.


----------



## happybleats

did you start the tylan yet or still waiting for it to come?


----------



## Dayna

I did not start the tylan, it is here. I was waiting to see if the thiamine and banamine did anything on their own. Should I start the tylan?


----------



## happybleats

I would....if this is the chlamydia GoakHiker sugggested..it is the treatment of choice.....


----------



## Dayna

happybleats said:


> I would....if this is the chlamydia GoakHiker sugggested..it is the treatment of choice.....


Do you offhand know the dose/frequency?

She's almost 12 pounds.


----------



## goathiker

It would be 2-3 cc. The dose for the 50 is 4-6 cc per 25 lbs.


----------



## glndg

*Thiamine and constipation*

Glad to see she is eating some plants! Yea!

On a hunch, I did a search for "thiamine and constipation." Eureka! There are a lot of articles that note a relationship between the two, although it is for humans. One says that it can remedy constipation by increasing intestinal muscle tone. I think that would most likely apply in other animals such as goats too.

Soooo.....glad you have the thiamine. :hi5:


----------



## Dayna

So I'm a bit pissed right now. 

I just looked at this bottle of Tylan 50 that I bought. I paid $20 for a 100ml bottle of meds that are about to expire. If I didn't need it right now for Myra I'd send it back.

Seems like you should get more than 3 months from a bottle of meds.


----------



## Dayna

goathiker said:


> It would be 2-3 cc. The dose for the 50 is 4-6 cc per 25 lbs.


So lets say 2.5 cc's and is that once a day? Does this shot hurt?


----------



## goathiker

It's once a day and no, it isn't nearly as stingy as the LA200 or the PenG. It is mostly sterile carrier with a small amount of active ingredient.


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

You can still use that Tylan for a year past its date. At about 6 months past, increase the dosage by about 10%. It will be fine to go past its date, it will just get a bit less effective. Some meds are toxic after date, that one is not.


----------



## goathiker

You can use it for your chickens too if they need it.


----------



## Dayna

Still, I moved massive chicken pens that weigh a couple hundred pounds for 2 hours to earn money to pay for that med. It just doesn't seem right that it expires in 3 months, regardless of if I can use it after the expiration date.

I'm just annoyed. I'll give Myra her dose when Steve gets home, I'm glad it's only once a day.


----------



## NyGoatMom

I'd be mad too...can you call the company and request a new bottle? The 50 will need to be dosed at a higher rate like Jill said....just making sure you caught that 
I hope this helps little Myra!


----------



## Dayna

I bought it off amazon, but yes we will be complaining to the seller with the explanation that the ONLY reason why we didn't return it and get our money back was that we really needed it.


----------



## NubianFan

How's Myra


----------



## janeen128

Yep, I was wondering too. There are 2 Alpines for sale on CL and one of them reminded me of Myra.


----------



## Dayna

You guys are all so awesome! I'm working on Myras outside pen today. She has a little fenced in "yard" already but it's not covered so I bring her in when it's raining. But I'm working on a blind goat safe pen for sleeping and when I can't keep an eye on her in her play yard. She'll share that space with the baby boy at night that annabelle gave birth to. I need to come up with a roof solution but it's almost ready for her. 

I love her inside but goats do belong outside and I think my husbands patience is wearing thin having a house goat. She pees... a lot. lol And she's started biting him. I have no idea why but she smells him or something and will track him down no matter where he is in the house and bites his ankles. Hard. He's a very tolerant man... so far. hehe


----------



## janeen128

Well, I guess we know who Myra's favorite parent is That's odd she bites him though...


----------



## NyGoatMom

LOL....lil terd! Hahaha.....how are the shots going? Any improvement at all?


----------



## happybleats

lol..spunky little thing....


----------



## Dayna

No improvements. She's the same. She's sweet and wonderful. She just spins and can't see.


----------



## Trickyroo

It may take time  Praying for as always 
Thats funny she bites your husbands ankles , well , not for him , but it is , lol. Im wondering if she smells something he walked through , like grasses or something like that……she is a very special little gal in many ways , bless her heart


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

It can take weeks to see a lot of improvement. Im losing track..are we on any banamine or just the thiamine and antibiotics. If tjeres swelling it could really do for us to get u some banamine too


----------



## happybleats

she has banamine as well...I owuld have hoped to see some improvment after a few doses..even a tiny bit...she may just need more time on the meds ...heres hopeing!!!!


----------



## Dayna

Yes she's on banamine, thiamine and antibiotics as well as milk, alfalfa pellets, oatmeal, gasses and some hay.


----------



## hallsthirdacrefarm

Well...u are certainly doing everything you can for her! She is doing great...now if any of us had an ounce of patience...lol


----------



## Dayna

So tonight she was moved out to the outside house. She's been crying and it's breaking my heart. I pulled Annabelles son and he's in there with her also crying and Annabelle is crying. I'm almost crying.


----------



## nannysrus

Oh my goodness!!! That's a lot to handle. :-( I think I would be crying right along with them.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## LadySecret

That's rough all around. Hopefully both kids will figure out fast that having another kid to play with is more fun! I hate listening to moms cry for their kids though... Hang in there.


----------



## happybleats

awe..:mecry(HUGS)) for you and Myra..and Annebelle and her baby lol must sound like the first day of preschool there!!!..keep in mind..this is good for myra...she needs this social lesson and she needs fresh air...and YOU NEED YOUR HOUSE BACK ...and soo she will be too big to run and play in doors and did I mention this is good for her ? :-D


----------



## toth boer goats

It is tough. I do know how you feel.


----------



## janeen128

Awe;( So sad, but yet needed... How did it go? Did they stop crying? I hope you got some sleep...


----------



## Dayna

They finally did stop crying, it was like they were all three crying for different reasons and kept feeding off one another. But yes, finally quiet came. WHEW! I got some photos this morning that I'm going to upload of them in their new baby house.


----------



## Trickyroo

Aww , that really grabs at the heart strings big time 
I can't bear to hear mommas crying for their babies , at all.
I don't know how your handling it to tell you the truth , thats a lot of crying and i always feel no one should cry alone , lol. I would be more of a basket case then i am already :hammer::hammer::hammer:
Its good for Myra to be out in the fresh air and with others her "kind" 
And you can have your house back and your hubby can rest easy his ankles won't be chewed on anymore :ROFL:


----------



## Dayna

Here is the kid house, mostly finished. I still need to tarp the back and a side for added rain/sun protection.










Baby boy this morning:










Myra aka "The Blur" and baby boy in the kennel:


----------



## ThreeHavens

Looking great!


----------



## janeen128

Cool! She's probably thinking who is this? What's this? Smells kind of like me, so huh let's be friends


----------



## Trickyroo

I think she will learn to how to get around more and follow sound and scent more.
She will get it down to a science in no time , she most likely has a good idea since she learned to follow your sounds early on…

Well done Dayna , you have done a phenomenal job taking care of her and providing the absolutely best for her and all your animals


----------



## Dayna

Thanks everyone.

Laura, I do try my hardest with what I have.  It never feels like I'm doing enough but my herd is pretty healthy and that's saying a lot since most of them came to me in ill health it seems.


----------



## NyGoatMom

She is just the cutest! And he is adorable too  So she still spins all the time? Or is it when she wants her milk? How is she handling the fences?


----------



## Dayna

She only spins when stressed or feeding time.

She's doing okay with the new enclosure. Needing a bit more "snuggle" time but doing okay. I think its harder on me.


----------



## NyGoatMom

I see....so do you feel like her only problem is blindness?


----------



## NyGoatMom

Yeah, I bet it is harder on you...lol


----------



## nannysrus

Do what you can with what you have and be proud of it!!!

You would not believe some of the things I have done but everybody is safe, happy, and healthy. Nothing more to ask for  




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## Dayna

Yes, I'm still treating for various things but my gut is telling me she's just blind. She's gaining weight, growing well, learning how her body moves, etc. I think her spinning is from being blind, also I think her breakdowns are frustration because she can't see where the milk is. As soon as the bottle hits her mouth she stops spinning and writhing on the floor.

Here's a tonight pic of Myra and Annabelles son. He took to the bottle like a fish to water. Awesome.


----------



## Dayna

OH one symptom I've noticed and it could be from blindness or not?

Okay, actually TWO things I've noticed.

On the front of her neck/chest there is a hump. Is that normal? I've never noticed it on baby goats before, but I've never handled a baby goat this much before.
She seems to have thinning hair around her eyes and the front of her neck.

Not from itching.... or anything like that. She was treated with CyLence so I don't believe it's parasites. I've noticed it thinning a bit over the last week or longer? Not very noticeable. I can try to get a photo but really you would only notice it if you nitpicked everything about her as much as I do. lol


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

That's great! So glad she has a goatie friend now!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

Dayna is the hair thinning with smooth pink skin? Is her hair easy pulled out just by brushing or petting her??

on her spinning...It doesnt look like fustration...she looses balance and seems to spaz, It could be the excitement itself causes a reaction to the brain...try this...for her next bottle...dont call her...just pick her up and sit her on your lap and pet her a few seconds..then stick the bottle in her mouth...sneaky like lol..see if you cant avoid an episode...:thumbup:


----------



## NyGoatMom

Copper deficiency can cause loss of hair around the eyes...


----------



## ksalvagno

Zinc deficiency can also cause the hair loss around the eyes.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Karen.....
Dayna, is she on any vitamins? You might want to copper bolus her too....how old is she now?


----------



## Dayna

She is not yet two months old and does eat some loose minerals.

And yes, If i just grab her and giver her the bottle and she's not expecting it or extra hungry we do avoid the whole episode.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Oh, I see....so too young until 5 weeks for copper from what I know, maybe Jill or Cathy will pop on and tell us if that is ok or not...hmmmm....she sure is a mystery case. I wish a local vet would take her on for learning purposes and do a freebie


----------



## janeen128

So, I'm guessing that she just gets to excited about the bottle and it throws her into a fit, because she can't see maybe.... Interesting.... Hoping that perhaps with all this extra stuff she might regain some sight..


----------



## happybleats

I think she may have a neorlogical wrong that when she gets excited it sets something off...I was hoping the thiamine and banamine would help..or the Tylan ..I think the problem was progressive..she was blind..then seeing, then blind..then seeing..now blind..and the spasms....just seems progressive...the damage done may not be reversable...Its to no falt of your Dayna!!! I hope you know that...she is a mystry and we all were trying to seek answers...settling on the Chlam....we may have beena bit late for meds to corret it fully..but they will stop the progression if Im right...She is in the best care she ever could be...you have made her a safe yard...got her a buddy...and she is happy and healthy other wise...and if you can control the episodes ...then that is a WIN....: ) This is of course my thought..may or may not be correct..

((HUGS))


----------



## glndg

ksalvagno said:


> Zinc deficiency can also cause the hair loss around the eyes.


Very interesting.....I just read an article a few days ago about zinc deficiency in humans. A deficiency impairs the function of B vitamins and blocks essential phospholipid pathways and is associated with dyslexia. It's possible that the underlying problem began with a zinc deficiency which resulted in a B vitamin deficiency and so on in a big domino effect.

The suggestion, in this case, was to feed high dose B vitamins and ensure adequate levels of zinc, folic acid, and other essential nutrients.

Sorry, I don't know the answer to this, but how long did you put antibiotics in her eyes? In another thread, people were recommending doing that for 5 days. If it is going to help, she might even need it longer since this has been going on for a while. With her other problems, infections are more likely to have had a chance to take hold.

She sure is looking good though! So much better than when you got her. Those ears are way cute, and that smile...!

BTW -- sesame seeds and pumpkin seeds are relatively high in zinc.


----------



## glndg

*Long, wordy alert!*



happybleats said:


> I think she may have a neorlogical wrong that when she gets excited it sets something off......the damage done may not be reversable...Its to no falt of your Dayna!!! I hope you know that...she is a mystry and we all were trying to seek answers...settling on the Chlam....we may have beena bit late for meds to corret it fully..but they will stop the progression if Im right...
> 
> ((HUGS))


Cathy, that seems quite likely. In the case of zinc what I read said, ".. Zinc deficiency causes impaired learning which can be corrected by zinc supplementation. However, maternal zinc deficiency during early fetal development causes permanent impaired learning and impairs the offspring's stress-coping mechanisms, which can increase urinary loss of zinc throughout life in response to stress." Whatever the cause, permanent damage could have occurred. But at least she is eating and growing and doing well now.

The spinning could be a result of impaired stress-coping mechanisms. Of course this is all speculation. The only way to know for sure would be to get a bunch of tests done. It would be very informative and useful for many goat owners to get some answers to this. It would be great if someone would do some tests for free.  Something was definitely off, but now seems to be much better.

Going out on a limb here, but if she was my goat I'd be inclined to give her some cilantro occasionally and maybe a little zeolite for some detox. (The kids with dyslexia had significantly lower zinc levels and higher concentrations of toxic metals in their sweat.) Zeolite is routinely given to cattle in some large scale operations so they can feed them more garbage like urea. You wouldn't want to go overboard with it because high levels of it can mess with the phosphorus levels according to one study. My goats LOVE powdered zeolite, but I've only let them have a tiny bit a few times.

The zinc info was from The Lancet -- Developmental Dyslexia and Zinc Deficiency

(And for people at least, why isn't this common knowledge???)


----------



## Dayna

Myra is developmentally delayed. Maybe due to brain damage, maybe due to being blind. I want to try to get a video. She occasionally does cute leaps and jumps but the only time she really "plays" is when I'm sitting cross legged on the floor. She will hop around me and jump and leap, but touching me every few seconds. She goes around me like playing ring around the rosey but shes the only one moving and her head is almost always touching me as she jumps, walks, hops, etc in the circle around me. She also jumps on me and paws at me and climbs on me. I don't see her doing this behavior at any other time, except when I'm sitting on the ground with her. And she's most comfortable playing in the space she knows, the living room. She has yet to play in her outside area, though today she came close. She circled me a couple times and then settled in my lap for a nap.

I don't have any clue how long she'll be on the bottle. She barely nibbles at foods, hay, grasses. I've offered her everything I can think of and she somtimes might take a bite or two. But pretty much refuses most solid foods. Even the 2 week old I'm bottle feeding eats more solid foods than she does. I don't understand it. I've never seen her take a drink of water, but I leave a bowl in the same spot and change the water out twice a day so it's fresh. I've put her nose to the bowl so she knows where it is.

When I have a bit more time I'm going to build her a feeding station so the bowls can't tip and I'll attach it to the side of the fencing. A space for water, minerals, grain and alfalfa pellets. So 4 bowls and a place for hay. I think it'll be easier on her if she cannot see having everything at face height and adjustable so as she grows I can raise it up a bit and in the same place so she knows 100% where her food and water is at all times.

I've been reading articles about taking care of blind dogs and cats. I figure the same sorts of stuff will apply to a goat. Safety, no sharp edges, keeping things exactly the same and a solid routine.


----------



## ariella42

We got our first two as bottle babies in May. It took them forever to start eating solid food or drinking water. I think part of it was just not being around adult goats during a formative period. In fact, once we bought one of their mothers, they started trying new foods noticeably more even though we'd weaned them a month earlier (at three months). I don't know if those are symptoms of whatever is wrong with Myra or just because she's been a house goat for so much of her life. Hopefully, being around another goat will help with her progress in that area. 

I think that once she gets used to her new area, she'll be more inclined to play. I think you're doing such a fabulous job with her!


----------



## NyGoatMom

Wow Dayna, that is quite a commitment... :hug: I hope you don't burn out from it all!


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## Dayna

I hope I don't burn out either. I have to go to Maui for a week next year sometime to visit with my mother in law who will be staying there for two weeks and I have no idea who I am going to get to watch all the animals, let alone Myra!


----------



## happybleats

Once Myra is really used to her pen..she will play more...she plays with you because you are her mama...I see this with my goats...once they venture out a bit they learn to play more with out mama...I would put a bell on her new buddy so she learns the sound of him and always will be able to find him if ever gets out of her pen...
They make awesom bowl holders for great danes that grow with them...: ) I think you have the perfect plan for her...it will all smooth out


----------



## NyGoatMom

Oh my goodness....a week?? I am panicking over being gone for 3 days to my son's wedding next June...a whole week would kill me :/


----------



## janeen128

Yeah, a week? I haven't been on vacation since I got the goats.... I really don't know who I could even ask.... Wow, I sound so pathetic, my goats are running my life... LOL!

I'm sure once Myra adjusts she will be fine... I would also do what HappyBleats suggested with the bell. Once he starts eating solids I think she will pick up on it too.. Keep up the good work


----------



## Dayna

Well, I'm only a 20 minute flight away. So it's not that scary. If anything happens I can come home right away.  It's not like I"m going to the mainland where I'm a full day+ away of just traveling.


----------



## happybleats

> Yeah, a week? I haven't been on vacation since I got the goats.... I really don't know who I could even ask.... Wow, I sound so pathetic, my goats are running my life...


Yep..its pretty bad.. My hubby take the kids every year for week of camping and I stay home to do chores lol ( im not a camper!)..Then My sister and I have a sisters week later in the year lol..thankfully we do lots of small things as a family..but to leave for more then the day...Nope...no one around to care for the animals...


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Well hopefully everything will be fine by then 

I'm like you, Cathy! Hate leaving home, and everything just isn't right when I leave :lol: I'm leaving day after tomorrow to TN, and I'm dreading it!


----------



## loggyacreslivestock

Dayna, I had a kid this year that was handicapped. He had leg problems. He didn't eat ANY solids except minerals till he was 4 months old. Once I got him a buddy, he began eating grain and very quickly began to love grain and hay. He didn't drink water till then either. Myra will adjust to eating solids too. But it may take her much longer than the average because of her blindness. I am following this thread and praying for a wonderful recovery for her. Hugs!


----------



## ThreeHavens

Dayna said:


> Well, I'm only a 20 minute flight away. So it's not that scary. If anything happens I can come home right away.  It's not like I"m going to the mainland where I'm a full day+ away of just traveling.


That was how I did the beach house. In the end I was very glad I went - the goats were fine and I got a break from it all!


----------



## nannysrus

happybleats said:


> Yep..its pretty bad.. My hubby take the kids every year for week of camping and I stay home to do chores lol ( im not a camper!)..Then My sister and I have a sisters week later in the year lol..thankfully we do lots of small things as a family..but to leave for more then the day...Nope...no one around to care for the animals...


If someone would take my kids and go camping or whatever for a week I would gladly stay home and do chores lol

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## happybleats

I love it! lots of peace and quiet...no dinner to run in and cook....and this next trip will be around march..so new babies..dont have to milk and should be warm...last year it was winter...weather was brutal and no babies...so had to milk.lol..so yah..going to be heaven!!


----------



## janeen128

Happy Thanksgiving to you, Myra and the rest of your family and clan.. How is Myra doing?


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## Dayna

Myra is in heaven! I've got a bunch of college kids that are staying with us that couldn't go to the mainland for the holiday with their families so Myra is getting lots and lots of attention.


----------



## janeen128

Awe how neat! Neat for her and them


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh Geez !!!!!!! Dayna , that first sentence scared me to death !!!

Well , i recovered , barely , but thats great ! I bet she is enjoying herself  And you can sit , relax and watch


----------



## rebelINny

Trickyroo, I freaked out over the first sentence too


----------



## Dayna

Don't worry. If Myra ever dies I will phrase it very clearly. I will say "Myra Died". Not passed (as in pooping) or in heaven (as in having a good time). lol


----------



## NyGoatMom

lol...Laura :lol: I can just see your face :ROFL: :shock:


----------



## Trickyroo

NyGoatMom said:


> lol...Laura :lol: I can just see your face :ROFL: :shock:


I seriously couldnt breathe when i read that !!!! My heart was in my throat ! I was like great , this is whats going to do me in today !! :hammer::ROFL:
Man , am i happy she is ok , that would have killed me for sure ! She's our little angel :angel: I watch her videos and laugh 
She has such a will to live that little girl  It makes me feel good to see her jumping around and enjoying herself 

Thanks Dayna , yes , please do that . I mean DONT DO THAT !!! CAUSE SHE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE !!!!!!! :hug:


----------



## NyGoatMom

^^lol :ROFL:


----------



## nannysrus

I have a tendency to read backwards sometimes so I didn't catch the "Myra is in heaven!" Part lol I read about the college kids first 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


----------



## ThreeHavens

Oh my gosh be still my poor pounding heart. :laugh:

I'm glad she's having a fun time! Also glad she's not in literal heaven. :lol:


----------



## rebelINny

You guys crack me up


----------



## janeen128

Are your guests gone? How is Myra taking it.... ? How is she and how are you?


----------



## Dayna

I'm tired. So very tired. Myra is doing well.


----------



## NyGoatMom

any improvements with Myra? Did the book give you any ideas what it could be? Sorry you are wiped out....:hug:


----------



## janeen128

With all that company I bet you are... HUGS!! Now go get some rest


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## Trickyroo

Hey give yourself a break Dayna . Your going to get yourself sick !
I know what I'm talking about , so sit , and stay


----------



## happybleats

> I'm tired. So very tired.


sometimes in our quest to take care of others ( including our goats) we forget to take care of ourselves...not to get preachy here lol..but the Bible does say love your nieghbors AS YOUR SELF!! ...So we must love ( take care) of ourselves so WE CAN take care of others...Something we all need reminding of from time to time

((HUGS DAYNA!!))


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## happybleats

> I'm tired. So very tired.


sometimes in our quest to take care of others ( including our goats) we forget to take care of ourselves...not to get preachy here lol..but the Bible does say love your nieghbors AS YOUR SELF!! ...So we must love ( take care) of ourselves so WE CAN take care of others...Something we all need reminding of from time to time

((HUGS DAYNA!!))


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## dreamacresfarm2

hugs you need some down time.


----------



## toth boer goats

We hear you and know the feeling, we do need time for ourselves to recoup at times. You well deserve it. :grouphug:


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## Trickyroo

Maybe I should come on over and I can take care of Myra you for a while  You can hang with the birdies , I'm sure they would love it too


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## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> Maybe I should come on over and I can take care of Myra you for a while  You can hang with the birdies , I'm sure they would love it too


Thats the best idea I've heard all year. I just can't catch a break these days. The goats broke down the fence and I just spent the morning catching goats and mending the fence. lol

I'm even more tired now but have too much to do.


----------



## Trickyroo

Dayna said:


> Thats the best idea I've heard all year. I just can't catch a break these days. The goats broke down the fence and I just spent the morning catching goats and mending the fence. lol
> 
> I'm even more tired now but have too much to do.


Dayna , sometimes things just have to wait , you know ?
You have to find some "me" time :hug:


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## toth boer goats

The goats are sure trying your patience aren't they, those escapees,  need to be under arrest for a while. ;-)


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## ariella42

Danya, clearly we all just need to take turns flying out there to help you. It's the best of both worlds, you get a break and we get a vacation with adorable goats in Hawaii  Honestly, everyone is right; you need to take care of yourself first of all so that you can take care of everyone and everything else that you have going on. I hope you get a break soon :hug:


----------



## marge

I agree... dayna gets a rest and we get some needed sun who is starting the sign up sheet?


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## Trickyroo

Sign up sheet to visit Dayna and Myra 

Trickyroo
Ariella42
Marge


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## janeen128

I so wanna visit, but who would take care of my kids... LOL


----------



## Dayna

Here is a video of Myra playing with the baby outside today:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204017855981431



And some photos from today.


----------



## janeen128

Awe!!! She's looking good Still so stinkin cute!!


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## dreamacresfarm2

ME, me !!!


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

How about bell on his collar so she knows where he is? So good to see her jumping and playing in the grass.


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## Dayna

I keep putting a cat collar on him but it keeps coming off. I don't want to put a real collar on him because I don't want him to choke. I keep collars on most of my older goats but they don't do silly baby goat things that get them stuck and possibly hanged.


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## rebelINny

Aww they are cute and Myra knew where he was. You could see her hearing him ☺


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## happybleats

I sure wish the meds did the trick..but she looks good..seems to be adapting well...


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## Trickyroo

Awwwwww  Im in love with her 
She seems like she has some vision when she's up close to something.
I really feel she sees the baby when he is up close , its just a feeling i got when watching the video. She looks so happy Dayna  Its such a joy to watch her play and enjoy her life  I could watch her all day  And the baby is soooo stinking cute  They make perfect BFFs


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## Trickyroo

I still wouldn't give up on her regaining some if not all of her sight. I really wouldn't


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## NyGoatMom

Awww, thanks Dayna! That was a great ending to my day  My DD and I love Myra!


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## Dayna

Trickyroo said:


> I still wouldn't give up on her regaining some if not all of her sight. I really wouldn't


I'm not giving up on that, but when planning her future living quarters, I'm planning on her being blind.


----------



## Trickyroo

How's Myra doing Dayna ?


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## Trickyroo

Im waiting patiently…….tum tee tum de tum……


----------



## Dayna

Sorry, I need to go get her temp. I just had a visual emergency that I'm trying to decide what to do and when to do it. I gotta get all the animals fed before I make any decisions. Just what I needed today right?


----------



## ksalvagno

I hope you are OK Dayna. I bet Myra is doing fine. Take care of yourself.


----------



## Dayna

Myras temp is 106.0

Obviously I need to start antibiotics and banamine? Is the banamine still 1/10cc dose? I need to weigh her I guess. What antibiotic? I have peng, tylan 50, and la200.

I'm okay. I lost partial vision in one eye for a while and I can't see really well but it's coming back. I've had eye issues on and off my whole life. If it continues, I'll get into the vet myself. haha


----------



## Dayna

17.4 pounds. I'll wait to do anything till I hear opinions.


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh geez Dayna ! What the heck ?!?! You've been dealing with this for a while , but still , is your hubby home ? Give him directions on how to with the shots and all and go lay down and rest !!! 
Please get yourself to a vet soon (kidding) said with love 

Banamine is 1cc per 100# can be given at a rate of 1/2cc per 25-30# The banamine should help with the temp.
Any teeth grinding ? Poop , pee normal , eye color ?


----------



## Dayna

Everything else with her is totally normal. I don't know what to think at this point. I'm so frustrated with her health! He's busy mowing right now. He will take over for me if he has too but for now I'm fine to get stuff done.


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## Dayna

I only have a tiny bit of banamine left. enough for a dose or two. So I'll give her 2/10th of a cc since shes close to 20 pounds.


----------



## janeen128

Any other symptoms besides high fever? 

Sorry to hear of this set back... You've definitely been through the ringer... Hugs....!!


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## janeen128

Hmmm, I think LA 200... The reason is because it seems an infection internally, and LA 200 is good for that, at least that's what my vet and vet tech I work with says... I am curious to know what Happybleats and or Goathiker think...


----------



## janeen128

Well, drats... I was hoping an expert would show up soon..


----------



## Dayna

I'm in no hurry to start a treatment that I might just change. I gave her 2/10th cc of banamine so I'll just wait and see when someone comes on.  She has no other symptoms other than the fever so I don't think we're in an emergency situation yet.


----------



## janeen128

106 is pretty high though, brain damaging high;( That's my concern. Is she drinking on her own? Electrolytes wouldn't hurt to keep her hydrated until the experts do come on


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## Trickyroo

yeah ^^ it is high….im thinking more of a dose of banamine would be better for it to kick in and bring down the fever , idk….im not sure if giving a tiny bit would do anything……anyone else feel this way ?


----------



## Dayna

I will go out and retake it and see if it's come down from the banamine. be right back.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Dayna, be careful with the eye problems...have it checked out. I had a friend with problems like that and it turned out she lost the eye.....so don't delay if you haven't seen someone already!

As for Myra....hmmmm....that lil girl is a tough case. Could it be silent pneumonia? Probably not as likely for your climate but their temps spike, then drop to subnormal.


----------



## Dayna

103.6


----------



## Dayna

NyGoatMom said:


> Dayna, be careful with the eye problems...have it checked out. I had a friend with problems like that and it turned out she lost the eye.....so don't delay if you haven't seen someone already!
> 
> As for Myra....hmmmm....that lil girl is a tough case. Could it be silent pneumonia? Probably not as likely for your climate but their temps spike, then drop to subnormal.


I've had iris tumors my whole life and the last few years slight brain swelling and major swelling of my optic nerve with no known cause. I figure it's just one of those popping up again. If it continues I'll have it looked at, but it's just a blind spot int he center of my vision and sparklers in my periphery.


----------



## janeen128

Well that's encouraging news... I'm kinda wondering if it is silent pneumonia, in that case I think Pen G, but still not certain...


----------



## NyGoatMom

That's terrible Dayna....:hug:

What was her temp?


----------



## NyGoatMom

Dayna said:


> 103.6


Oh, I see now


----------



## Trickyroo

Im glad the temp is going down , thats good news 
As for your eye Dayna , that is so scary !!! :hug:


----------



## Trickyroo

Oh , keep her hydrated !


----------



## janeen128

How goes the battle? Yours and Myra's?


----------



## janeen128

How is everyone?


----------



## toth boer goats

How are things?


----------



## Dayna

I just got home and will retake her temp. Maybe it'll be a miracle and she won't be running a fever anymore and it was just a fluke!


----------



## toth boer goats

Praying.


----------



## Dayna

104.5 while laying in the sun. I have no idea if thats a fever or not at this point. I just don't know what to do!


----------



## NyGoatMom

How is she otherwise? and what all is she on now?


----------



## Dayna

She's not on anything right now. She's acting fine, hungry, peeing pooping, etc etc. Playing.


----------



## ksalvagno

Has she always been out in the sun when you take her temp? I wouldn't rush to give her anything if she is normal in all other ways.


----------



## Dayna

Yes, she likes to lay in the sun. Well since she moved outside, when I took her temp a couple weeks ago she was inside so those were true fevers.


----------



## NyGoatMom

I guess I'd just keep checking it....


----------



## Dayna

Such a frustrating goat!


----------



## NyGoatMom

I imagine....I don't think i could have done what you did.....but what can you do in that situation? I guess you would either keep her going...or cull her. I can cull goats~ but a baby like that? I doubt I could have....once they are older it seems different...but one as young as her...naw, I don't think I could have given she is so spunky for life


----------



## Dayna

She is SO SPUNKY and full of life! And frankly, I don't think any of this is genetics. I think it was poor care of a pregnant goat, wrong decisions in the first 48 hours for her, and bad luck. She's a nice goat, she LOOKS really nice. Glossy coat, nicely balanced body and she's gentle. I actually think she'd make a great milker, her mothers udder is to die for. I'm not sure she could take care of kids really well though... so I'd have to think about that really long and hard.


----------



## NubianFan

I don't see why she'd have to take care of them, pull them and bottle raise them, or put on a lambar or sell them as soaking wet bottle babies. Then just use her as a milker, however, I think she could probably care for kids just fine, she will be able to hear and smell them, and they can see her.


----------



## happybleats

I would Recheck her temp this evening...try to get a true temp without her sitting in the sun...but as long as she is acting normal , eating, drinking, pooping berries and peeing fine, active and spunky...I would just keep a close watch to be sure nothing more is going on...
you have been very patient : ) maybeone day she will bless you back with beautiful babies and awesome udder : ) 

best wishes


----------



## toth boer goats

She sounds good, give her a big hug for me. :wink::hug:


----------



## dreamacresfarm2

off the wall but my oldest son ran high temps off and on his first year. They never did figure out why but he did out grow it.


----------



## Dayna

Cheri that is very interesting! I was wondering if it just has something to do with her and maybe not an infection. Like raising her temp by getting herself worked up or something.


----------



## NyGoatMom

Maybe she has a busted thermostat :lol:


----------



## janeen128

I struggle with high temps no known cause, I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome back in 2011, which basically means yep you are sick but we have no idea why..???? Ironically I got into goats the same year, and have had minimal symptoms since... Not saying that is what's wrong with Myra, but she just might need to work through it if her fever isn't too high...


----------



## Dayna

I've decided to stop worrying so much, keep an eye on the temp, and just enjoy her and let her enjoy life. All the butt prodding and the injecting with stuff drags down her quality of life. Unless I see a clear "problem that requires treatment" I'm going to let her be and enjoy herself.


----------



## janeen128

Dayna said:


> I've decided to stop worrying so much, keep an eye on the temp, and just enjoy her and let her enjoy life. All the butt prodding and the injecting with stuff drags down her quality of life. Unless I see a clear "problem that requires treatment" I'm going to let her be and enjoy herself.


Probably what I would do too..


----------



## ksalvagno

I've seen alpaca crias that took months to really be able to regulate their own temp. I had to keep a close eye on them and not allow them to be in the sun too long so they didn't heat stress.


----------



## ThreeHavens

Dayna said:


> I've decided to stop worrying so much, keep an eye on the temp, and just enjoy her and let her enjoy life. All the butt prodding and the injecting with stuff drags down her quality of life. Unless I see a clear "problem that requires treatment" I'm going to let her be and enjoy herself.


I agree, you've reached the point where you've done your best and now you can sit back and let her live life the best she can.


----------



## toth boer goats

I agree.


----------



## janeen128

Hopefully we can get some more pics and videos of the little squirt....


----------



## Dayna

I will try tomorrow.  Bonnie who just kidded now has a rock hard udder I'm dealing with. I swear these goats.....


----------



## janeen128

Yikes... Rock hard? Weird. Never had that happen here but I'm certain given enough time with these goats I know I will see many odd things...


----------



## Dayna

Yeah it's bad, I posted a thread "udder 911". I need a goat break. haha


----------



## happybleats

I think you are right on with Myra...!!


----------



## Dayna

Here is a couple photos of Myra enjoying her new "food bar". I put dishes in those concrete blocks with the holes in them. That keeps her from stepping in her food dishes and also is something sturdy for her to "bump" into so she knows where she is. 

Left to right is sweet cob mixed with alfalfa pellets, minerals, hay and last water. I put the water to the far right so the chickens don't steal all the dry foods. lol


----------



## HappyCaliGoats

Sooo cute! Looks like she's doing well! Her little buddy is adorable too!


Newbie to Nubian dairy goats! 3 Nubian does, 1 Nubian buck, 1 Pygmy doe, and 1 alpine/ guernsey wether! Plus the rest of the farm pets which would take the whole page to list  
~Dee

Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


----------



## happybleats

Love.it!!


----------



## janeen128

Awe too cute!! She seems to be adjusting and doing quite well.... They are both adorable...


----------



## ksalvagno

Too cute!


----------



## Trickyroo

Great ideas Dayna ! Its never easy to find a way of putting their food down and not having them trash it all by walking through it 
She looks awesome ! And so does her BFF, i forgot his name…...


----------



## NigerianDwarfOwner707

goathiker said:


> Beetle mites though, not goat mites. They are in the hay and the grass.


Random question while I'm just doing some reading on old threads - but can these kinds of mites still irritate goats? @goathiker


----------



## goathiker

They don't seem to be as bothered as humans, they have tougher skin. 
They are the cause of the red itchy "hay rash" bumps some hay causes. 
They bite once and run off to find beetles to bother.


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