# Mountain lion scare and LGD



## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

Hi! I am still new on this forum and have been meaning to be more active but so much has been going on! Sorry this is so long of a post but I am still rattled every time I tell someone!

We had a mountain lion attack our goats! It was around 5:30pm and I was at our house that is on the same property as my moms. All of a sudden I hear her positively screaming! My husband tore out of the room and when he opened the door I heard my mom shout "It's killing them!"

I was about 15 seconds behind my husband. When I got to the top of the hill looking down on where the goats were I could see Mildrid lying on the ground. My mom was screaming that there had been a huge mountain lion on top of her. I knew she was dead. Her eyes were open and her tongue was sticking out. I could see where the lion had dragged her through the leaves. I put my hand on her stomach but I didn't see any blood. My husband was cradling her head. All of a sudden she jumped up! She made some really weird noises, was very disoriented and gave a half-hatred head butt, but realized it was us! Thankfully she only had one scratch on her leg which has already healed. The other goats had broken out of their netting and had ran all the way back to their goat house.

I did not see the lion but according to my mom it was bigger than my husband who is 6'1 and 145lbs. My husband had been running at it screaming then stopped because he decided that it wasn't a good idea. It had more girth than him. It made two screams the raaaaaa-rawwwww sound and then hopped a 6 foot fence that is topped with barbed wire like it were nothing. My mom said that this was a super huge healthy cat and when he jumped his muscles just bristled.

When we were getting the goats all safe in their house my mom walked up to me and said "How much is a Pyrenees and were do we get one?" I'm thinking, did my mom just say that? If you knew my mom you would understand how perplexing this was to me. I didn't think she was serious until she was on the internet looking 20 minutes later!

I love Pyrenees, so I had already done a ton of research into raising an LGD but this was more in preparation for thinking about way in the future. Our goats then when into heat and it was kind of like reality hit. We are going to have a bigger heard and it's going to get a lot harder to keep them safe. People on our road do not have livestock because they ALL have been killed by mountain lions. A Chow-Chow and a German Sheppard have also been killed. People just gave up. Our dogs (heelers and a boxer/doberman cross) would be a cat appetizer.

So we went and found a LGD puppy! His name is Lassen and he is 7/8 Pyrenees and 1/8 Akbash cross. He is only 9 weeks old and showing amazing ability to protect the goats. When we were getting ready to take him to the vet he ran back to the goats twice. He is under strict supervision until he is old enough and at night he has a crate so he can safely sleep with the goats. He has not spent an entire night outside yet due to smoke form the King Fire but we are working on it.

I have to note that the night we were coming back from picking him up, we had to drive 3 hours both ways to get him, my mom called to tell us the lion was under the trailer next to the goats! It keeps coming back and it brazenly walked in front of some kids as they were walking to school. Not normal and scarey!!! BTW they are protected in CA and animal control can't do anything unless it kills something even though it walked right in front of kids. We can shoot it if it is actively attacking but that does not help much.

On Friday we go and pick up a female. We named her Shasta. We drove out to see the littler a few days ago. We picked her as being best for our needs. I hope she has what it takes! They had two girls but the second girl, though bigger, had too much pray drive when a toy was tossed. So we picked the one that was more gentle. Lassen could care less when I toss a toy and he spent an entire afternoon in our chicken coop! I knew the bostiuous girl would be a chicken killer.

Lassen is from what I would describe as the "rugged" ranch. Lassen was dirty, rolling around in sheep poop, had stickers on him, had worms (yep I got a dog knowing he had worms because I also knew that he would be an amazing LGD) and just "reeked" of working dog. He is not purebred but was bread to do the job.

Shasta, is from a small family "farm". She is 100% Pyrenees. She was super clean, not a fur out of place, fatter, and I am not sure her paws have ever touched more than the manicured grass that their goats have. I like to think that we are in between those two, so hopefully they can become a great LGD team. I hope she has what it takes (not worried about Lassen) but even if they are just our outside guardians it should be enough. Our property is not too big that they can't monitor it.

We are using electric netting to safely have him in with the goats. When I am outside with him he goes directly in with them. Thankfully our young doeling, Stella, taught him very quickly that he is not to play with them. Our buck, Chico, is amazing with him. Lassen will sit in the grass and they will literally eat around him. He also moves so he can watch them if they leave his sight. The only thing is they try to steal his food! He has to bark at them to get them to stop. Then he just finally gives up. I had to pull it out because the goats should not be eating Natural Balance Lamb!!! We will have to work on that.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

WOW! Glad I don't live where you live! I am just sure I would get in trouble for packing my gun around... This puppy is adorable, love the picture with him sitting there like Sam the sheep dog on cartoons way back when I watched cartoons, wow, just realized that was like 40 years ago.... YIKES!


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## Rhandi74 (Dec 6, 2013)

Very cute!! My Pyrenees are great at keeping predators away ::


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Hey, I know Sam the sheepdog!!! (But I'm 54..). Congrats on the puppies!!! And good luck!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Very scary, glad you now have protection! 
Our first LGD was 8 mos old when a cat was spotted. Though not big enough to take it on, his barking must have kept it away. We added another dog not long after.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh don't you love California with these stupid cats  in my books it is already actively attacking and I would shoot the sucker next time I saw him.....I'm also a California resident. 
Thank goodness I haven't had to deal with that with my goats I'll take my little coyotes over that any day lol
But happy you got your dogs. You were smart getting 2 when it comes to a mountain lion. This lady I know has had issues with lions and she had only one lgd and it was no match  she then got 2 and they came in and one had a cut on his nose but has never had a issue with a cat again


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

What a story! Glad she was ok! Will a guard dog be any good against a mountain lion? Seems like the dogs they used to hunt those were way tough and were always like filas and the like.


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

WOOOOOW! How scary! Glad everyone turned out to be OK.
Lassen is extremely handsome!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!! Fortunate not to have cats around here... Eeks.. Scary....


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## SugarBush Farms (Apr 19, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh don't you love California with these stupid cats  in my books it is already actively attacking and I would shoot the sucker next time I saw him.....I'm also a California resident.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


I agree, the lion is actively attacking already. If it's no longer weary of humans all it's going to take is a rough winter or scarcity of prey for it to decide a child or lone human looks like tasty prey.
There's got to be a rule that if it is attacking livestock you can kill it(I know there is in Michigan for most any predator not sure about Cali). I would personally look into it, if there is say it was attacking your goats, and if all else fails, the three S's: shoot, shovel, shut up. (Not the recommended method, but again, if all else fails...)


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I agree with the shovel, shoot, and shut up.....

A big cat would come on our property once and then the next time it's dead..... Luckily we have plenty of other game around and they don't typically bother livestock but a guy about 40 minutes away shot one for killing his livestock and has news crews out because the game wardens kept saying we don't have big game cats.

We take two dogs out trail riding with us. One medium black lab mix and one Australian shephard/ blue heeler mix. When we run into big game like cats or bears we just keep going but if something is threatening we send out our dogs. We haven't run into anything yet that hasn't run from our dogs but when our dogs hear "take" they turn into mutant rabies infested dogs and nothing really wants to mess with them. 

I have never owned an actual LGD breed but they are more successful as a pack against large predators. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## mayia97420 (Apr 22, 2014)

We do have mountain lions, bears. coyotes, foxes, raccoons, and possums here. We dont have a LGD  but we do have dogs that will bark. They have learned what to bark at and what is ok (deer, turkeys,etc. But in Oregon if a animal is attacking your livestock you can shoot it. The dogs bark and we are out there with a gun.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Careful California has tracking collars on more cats than any other state, you will be in trouble if you don't take the right steps with a protected animal. Call wildlife officers and get it trapped.

If it's collar doesn't move they investigate......


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

First , I'm so glad your goat Mildred was ok and no one else was hurt !
I agree with the three SSS , but wouldn't want to see anyone get into trouble because of shooting a "protected" animal/ Im all for protecting the wildlife , but when the wildlife is threatening my animals and having witnessed the "protected" animal dragging my animal away to eat it , I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it. For more "ammo" against the wildlife officers , film the cat walking past children , as many places as you can and bring it to the town officials and make then do something about it.
Maybe their kids or grandkids were the kids that the cat was sauntering past that day. It is mind blowing that wildlife officers have used scare tactics to chase big predators away or even relocate them , they underestimate the very animal they are trying to save. They are smart and will either find their way back cause its their territory and they know there is easy prey there. Still , if that cat isn't collared , SSS.
Just my opinion. Good luck to you !


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Chadwick said:


> Careful California has tracking collars on more cats than any other state, you will be in trouble if you don't take the right steps with a protected animal. Call wildlife officers and get it trapped.
> 
> If it's collar doesn't move they investigate......


You are 100% right. These guys next to my parents shot one.....not for sure but I think pre attacking but got in trouble because they tried to hide it.
Everyone is right you have the right to shoot the animal if it's attacking as in you shoot it while it's in the middle of killing your animal. 
What I would do is start calling fish and game. It it noted you have a issue with this animal. They will do NOTHING FYI but you will have a record of this animal causing issues. Then if I saw that sucker eyeballing my animals I would kill it right there. Then call fish and game and tell them to get their cat out of there. Don't try and hide it because you did nothing wrong. 
We have a subdivision up the road from me and they have received many calls from many different people about a mountain lion and to this day they have done nothing

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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I agree get some documentation with the state, that way if you do shoot it it does not look like a poaching fun kill, rather a protection of stock shooting.....but I think it would be best to have wildlife out they may set a trap.

For the record, I would shoot it without calling anyone, to be honest! But my advise is to do it right!

The old "do as I say not as I do" !!!!!!! Hahahahahaha


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I am so glad she is OK. If you have to shoot the cat and you find out it is OK to do so ( with paperwork from the DOW)I would make sure you shoot that thing and call them right away. I would make sure it is in your fence if you have to put it in there.


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## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

Lovinglife- As I was reading your comments my brother saw that same picture and said the exact same thing! I had to google Sam the sheep dog! I remember him! Also, I just moved from Northern Idaho. I never got around to visiting Southern Idaho but we definitely had wolves, and mt. lions. The wolves were worse because they were always in packs. Our neighbor had about 8 Pyrenees to protect his flock. 

Nancy d- We are watching him like a hawk for now because obviously he can't even take on our housecat. I had done a ton of research and everything and everyone said to get two. I am hoping that they will never have to fight and that their barking will be enough. 

We are legally allowed to shoot it. We have to report it within 48 hours and we need "proof" that it was going to attack. The animal control lady said that proof could be as simple as "it was acting in an unpredictable manner and looked like it was going to attack". The problem is that we would have to put ourselves in a position to shoot it. We don't want to do that. We can legally shoot it while it is off our property but we can't go actively hunting it. For example if we shoot it while we are standing on our property and it is in BLM land it shows we were not actively hunting it but protecting our livestock. We can't really shoot it on BLM land because there is a road and we can't shoot across the road. It is a dirt road with few people but still bad practice. 

Katherine- that is the weird thing! There are TONS of deer, and this is a healthy cat. He is huge, strong, not sick, and has no reason to go after our goats expect he is bold. I think he has been around humans a lot. A small heard of deer walks though our yard everyday. He should not be waiting for our goats. 

Samantha, be careful. We have 4 heelers and aside from being extremely noisy they really are not all that powerful to an animal larger than them. Thankfully usually noise is enough but I think they would have just annoyed this guy. They were in the house when it happened so thankfully we didn't find out what would happen. 

Chadwik we did think of that but I just have to hope that if we did have to shoot it we would not get in trouble if we did everything in our power to do it by the books.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

They had a thing on the news about wild animals and the drought. Wild animals are getting more brave coming in to find water they then see a easy target and close to their water that the found so take advantage.
That could be what's going on with you but I've learned over the years that once a animal (in my case usually bob cats and coyotes) find a easy way to get food they keep going with it. I shot a coyote this morning for harassing my cow while she was having her calf. He was fat we have water all over for the cows, we have tons of squirrels and he was fat. He just did it because he could


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## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

Sometimes you need to take things into your own hands. I would consider that cat already hunting your animals and would shot to kill - and never tell anyone. We also have cougars but have been pretty lucky - a hot wire on the outside of the fence for sniffing preditors and I did hear a cat roar one night - sure it hit the hot wire while looking for a place to jump. We have an extra hot wire. Also around the top of the pens but I know they can jump anything they want to. We also put lights shining into the woods, and a brushy field close to the pens. We also put up these little solar boxes that flash a red beam all night - Preditor Guard I think it is called. 
And we keep loaded guns. I have one in my milk area and of course the house and we carry a pistol when we take the goats out for a walk. I had a sheep killed quite a few years ago - trapper got the cat after it left our house and killed 3 sheep down the road but we don't have a state trapper anymore. I don't believe a dog will ward off a cougar. Our neighbor had 3 dogs and they hid when the cougar was killing. Load your gun!!


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## kanis (Jul 3, 2014)

It depends on the dog. A cougar would be stupid to take on a group of Pyrenees. Of course, that is an adult. Our little guy is no match for our house cat at the moment! Our heelers would be total cat bait. 

We actually picked up a female Pyrenees puppy but she was aggressive! At one point I had to pry her off of our new pup and he was crying. Poor boy! I have never seen that level of aggression in an 8.5 week old puppy. I had a horrible feeling about the girl pup even though we spent several hours with her before she was old enough to go and picked her from the litter. Thankfully the people we got her from were really understanding and they let us bring her back. 

We have one more lead on an adult dog. I am apprehensive to get an adult simply because we have other dogs that are idiots (heelers) and I want the dog to know that our heelers just can't help themselves but wont hurt the goats. 

When we got her home she just barraged him and it was not play. It was as though an evil switch was flipped and I think if she could she would have killed him. It was that bad. 

As for now no mt. lion sightings though we are still vigilant and take our guns every time we go out. I am scared to walk to the bottom of our property without it. Our goats went into heat and seem to be calming down now but I am so apprehensive to increase our herd.


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## glndg (Feb 8, 2013)

kanis said:


> Lovinglife- As I was reading your comments my brother saw that same picture and said the exact same thing! I had to google Sam the sheep dog! I remember him! Also, I just moved from Northern Idaho. I never got around to visiting Southern Idaho but we definitely had wolves, and mt. lions. The wolves were worse because they were always in packs. Our neighbor had about 8 Pyrenees to protect his flock.
> 
> Nancy d- We are watching him like a hawk for now because obviously he can't even take on our housecat. I had done a ton of research and everything and everyone said to get two. I am hoping that they will never have to fight and that their barking will be enough.
> 
> ...


If it is near children or your animals, Fish and Wildlife may come out and kill it. It is probably looking for easy pickings.

Not long ago, there was an article in the news about a young male cougar that attacked a child and started to drag him off the trail that a group of people were hiking on. The adults scared it off. Fish and Wildlife went out and shot it. They could see that it had followed the people back to their vehicle.

That was in Santa Clara County, California.

LGDs would be a good deterrent though. There would have to be something really wrong with a big cat that would risk tangling with them.


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