# Alfalfa, hypocalcemia, ketosis, feeding, and what a vet said



## grindylo (May 15, 2014)

Hi! There's a post titled "Feeding Alfalfa Exclusively?" by KristiStone. The post got me thinking and I asked some questions on there which a few of you were really good to help out with. At about the same time, I recently got back into using Facebook and found a goat group where only vets answer questions posted. I wanted to see what a vet would think about some of the more detailed questions I had. Asked much the same things as here and got one reply from a Dr. Ken Brown, Dvm. What he said makes sense and I think many of you would agree, but I know that many of you do things differently with great success.

First I'll copy the questions I had and then I'll put what he wrote. (Hope this isn't a faux pas..)

Here's me with lots of questions:

I recently read that alfalfa was "too rich" and could throw off Ca balance when feeding to prevent UC. It was my understanding that alfalfa (high calcium) was good to balance out the Ca ratio when feeding grain, since grain generally has a lot more phosphorus. I thought that 2(or greater):1 was the ideal and that the danger was too much phosphorus rather than too much calcium. Was I wrong?
What about when using pellets? Are they pretty good or would you consider them too rich?

A vet student I talked to said to get my possibly bred doe off alfalfa because too much dietary calcium could cause her body to forget how to source calcium from her bones when she gives birth. Is that right? Can you recommend a feeding/supplement regimen for pregnant goats? Is there anything else I can do to prevent milk fever? What should I have on hand in case she gets it? I plan on milking her once she kids.

My goats unfortunately don't have access to browse. I have four on about half an acre. Bad for parasites I know... They're all Nigerian Dwarf (and 75+% ND crossed), two 18 month old does and two 5 month old bucks. They're all in good condition, not too fat or skinny. 

I feed them free choice timothy+alfalfa hay. Twice a day they get a cup of alfalfa pellets and half a cup of grain pellets. The bred doe is currently getting 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets and one cup of grain. Working her down to grain only. They get a small amount of sunflower seeds, too.
Is that a good amount of feed? Should I be feeding differently like adding beet pulp or oats/barley instead of grain pellets or something like that? Or cut back on feed so they eat more hay? I know some people don't feed grain at all except to does in milk or kids. Also wasn't sure how alfalfa pellets might work into that.


Here's what he wrote:

1. alfalfa can be too rich if too much, but some is not a big deal - wethers and bucks do not really need any. Calcium can cause stones as well as phosphorous sources. 2:1 to 4:1 is goal for Ca:, but overall calcium should not be that high regardless, and neither should phosphorous. Feed within dietary guidelines of maximum of 1% weight in grains.

pellets are protein and calcium concentrated - I avoid them unless dealing with lactating goats

2. Vet student is a student - musta just had their ruminant lectures wink emoticon

Vet student is incorrect somewhat - a goat is not a cow and hypocalccemia is not common unless is high lactation breeds - you do avoid too much calcium in dairy cows as they go from zero to super production (often as much as 90-100 pounds in a day) within a few days of birth, and the heavy calcium draw is a problem. It isn't they "forget" how to source calcium from bones, it is the overall process is down-regulated with high calcium intake.

To prevent 'milk fever' in the goat, give them some calcium at kidding - believe it or not, a few Tums Ultra work fine and taste not so bad. Also helps with muscle tone (why I use it) - day before expected, at time go to stage I labor .. can give it then

Biggest problem with pregnant goat is ketosis - burning fat from inadequate energy intake during last 4 to 6 weeks of pregnancy. Feed more of their regular feed - 10% per week and spread it into more meals so rumen can handle it easier. Go grab some calcium oral drench and may want injection calcium (23%) ... but I would be more concerned with ketosis (it kills .. quickly) and grab urine test strips and a jug of propylene glycol

3. Feed is probably too much if get good grain - let their body condition be your guide. Feed up off the ground for hay and grain.

Skip sunflower seeds - heavy on phosphorous.

Use a commercial, balanced goat feed - I use Purina and do well with it. I also feed just a wee bit. Free choice hay is the food - the grain is like a vitamin to supply what is missing in the hay.

...

That's it. I'd love to read any of your thoughts on what the vet wrote or if you want to add anything. :2cents: =)


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Excellent post! I agree on many points of what Dr. Ken Brown said. One thing I want to point out, is that we don't feed grain for vitamins, that's why we feed the loose minerals, they have the vitamins and minerals they need. Grain is for adding a little extra protein, fat and energy in the diet. Mainly for milkers, pregnant does and growing kids. 

Ditto about the tums, I use them for my does as well. And for extra calcium, instead of the oral drench, I rather use the CMPK gel. Just easier to use 
And I have always fed my bucks alfalfa, never had a problem with UC, never had a problem with bulls or stallions either. 
Ketosis is much, much more common than hypocalcemia in goats, I agree. Unless you have heavy milkers, or even just average milkers on an inadequate diet, you should be just fine and not have to worry about hypocalcemia.


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