# PLEASE critique this boer doeling and wether



## Brink4

I'm a newbie and these are my daughters market wether and her doeling for our July fair. The wether is almost 4 months and the doeling is 3 months. Please let us know what you like and what you don't like. We are still learning and want to know what we should be looking for. Thanks!!


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## GTAllen

Need a picture of the wether, in the drive, from behind and side. Also, he needs to be sheared. He does look like he needs to be exercised, a lot. I can't see his muscle.

The doe looks like she is solid. Nice topline. Good length. Heavy bone. Long neck. Smooth shoulder. Hard to tell but the spring of rib could be better. Toes maybe out in the front. But she needs to be setup and she is probably good. Inital impression is that I like her. She needs some more cover. If she was in my show pen, I would push a litte more feed to her and work her hair into show condition.


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## HoosierShadow

Like I said in the 4-H section, I think it'll be hard to tell with the wether without getting him shaved down. You might be surprised what you find underneath all that hair 

I am no judge on conformation, but have to say the biggest thing that stood out to me of the doe was her feet. Could just be the way she is standing, but she definitely looks to toe out.


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## Brink4

GTAllen said:


> Need a picture of the wether, in the drive, from behind and side. Also, he needs to be sheared. He does look like he needs to be exercised, a lot. I can't see his muscle.
> 
> The doe looks like she is solid. Nice topline. Good length. Heavy bone. Long neck. Smooth shoulder. Hard to tell but the spring of rib could be better. Toes maybe out in the front. But she needs to be setup and she is probably good. Inital impression is that I like her. She needs some more cover. If she was in my show pen, I would push a litte more feed to her and work her hair into show condition.


Thanks for your input it definitely helps. I plan on shearing him this weekend and will get additional pictures up. How do you suggest working the does hair into condition? I know it sounds like a crazy question but we are still new to all this and I was just going to shear her also.


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## Dani-1995

I already critiqued the wether on the other thread 

For the doe overall I lik eher. She is pretty smooth in her overall design. I feel like she could be a bit bigger boned but she isnt frail boned either. She does appear to toe out in the front but some of that can be changed with trimming. I agree she needs more cover on her and she could be bolder in her rib shape. Over all I like how she bleands in at her shoulder and neck and she's a nice package


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## Dani-1995

For the does hair- Wash, condition, comb straight back and spray on show sheen. Then blow dry... make sure you have the hair laying back and not everywhere. The rake combs are really good for that. You can also start trimming her like she would to be shown. I have a picture I can post for how the hair lengths should be


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## GTAllen

If you are showing her as market animal then you shear her like a wether. If you are showing her as doe, she needs good hair. 

You want a lot of hair to help them look like they have some butt. Don't start cutting away at the does hair. Have someone show you how to fit her. I feed some of my show does a feed that has 6% fat and I give them a top dress of Super Charge. Also I give them a hand full BOSS everyday. All that fat gives them really shiny thick long hair and good cover.

I rinse their hair when they get dirt on it and blow them out. I have a comb that cuts out the dead hair and it leaves the good health hair. I know it sounds odd to be fussy about the hair but it makes a difference with does and bucks. 

Just don't over do it messing with it. You can cause it to dry out and flaky skin.


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## Dani-1995

Another thing for nice coats that I use along with BOSS is healthy coat. Its labeled for horses but its.the something for goats.... they actually have it with labels for chickens, goats and horses but its all the exact samething. I got the horse label since its a gallon and I feed it to a lot of goats.


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## GTAllen

I use Cocosoya also. Which looks like it is another fat similar to Healthy Coat.


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## Dani-1995

GTAllen said:


> I use Cocosoya also. Which looks like it is another fat similar to Healthy Coat.


I like that too but my feed store and tractor supply don't carry it anymore.


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## GTAllen

Dani-1995 said:


> I like that too but my feed store and tractor supply don't carry it anymore.


If you use a whole a lot of cocosoya you can order 5 gals with free shipping for about $80.


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## HoosierShadow

How similar is Cocosoya, Healthy Shine and Rice Bran Oil? We use Rice Bran Oil and I do see a difference in hair coat after a few days to a week on it. We gave it to a yearling for a few weeks to test it out, and she just glistened. 
We have a 4mo % doe who is getting it every day, she has a soft red coat, and is shedding. I can really see the healthy summer coat underneath starting to shine 
Hoping we can get my daughters new % doe to eat it, she's a weanling & not tame, so she's been under a lot of stress, so we'll see how she progresses. So far, she doesn't seem to care for the rice bran oil.

Brink - This is the comb we use, I think Dani was the one that recommended it to us a couple of years ago, and we love it. The goats love it too! They just stand there, like 'ahhhhh feeelllls gooood' it's pretty funny. One day one of our yearlings was into it so much she laid down and went to sleep lol
http://www.jefferspet.com/scotch-combs/camid/LIV/cp/0026519/cn/3308/

GTAllen & Dani --

I have some questions about clipping the does, but I will post it in a separate topic here in this section with pictures.


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## Dani-1995

Cocosoya is coconut and soybean oil together. Healthy coat is soybean with added vitamins and apple flavoring. I prefer a sweet oil since the goats eat it better. I haven't even used rice bran but I used wheat germ and some liked and other didn't. So far everyone likes cocosoya and healthy coat.


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## GTAllen

It looks like Healthy Shine, Cocosoya, Wheat Germ Oil, CoMega etc... are all about the same. Rice Bran Oil I suspect is like the rest of them. You can check your label and compare it to the others. 

I am going to do some price checking, but I think Wheat Germ Oil maybe the less expensive of all the fat supplements. If it is, I may change to it.


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## Dani-1995

GTAllen said:


> It looks like Healthy Shine, Cocosoya, Wheat Germ Oil, CoMega etc... are all about the same. Rice Bran Oil I suspect is like the rest of them. You can check your label and compare it to the others.
> 
> I am going to do some price checking, but I think Wheat Germ Oil maybe the less expensive of all the fat supplements. If it is, I may change to it.


It is fairly cheap compared to others. Its also fed to dogs so it may be easier to find but I only ever saw it small sizes... never a gallon.

All of them are pretty much the same in fat content... may vary a little bit but not too much. All the ones I have used.have done the samething. Its come down more to what the goats will eat then what works the best.


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## GTAllen

I think they have gallons at Atwoods here. Also, at my feed store. If you had trouble with them eatting it, then I will stick with Cocosoya.


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## Dani-1995

My doe ate it just fine but the young wethers turned their noses up. I know people who had does, mature and young, that didn't like it either. My doe eats everything so I'm not sure shes the best example... the other week she ate a plastic bag so we dont trust her for whats good and whats not.


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## Brink4

Dani-1995 said:


> For the does hair- Wash, condition, comb straight back and spray on show sheen. Then blow dry... make sure you have the hair laying back and not everywhere. The rake combs are really good for that. You can also start trimming her like she would to be shown. I have a picture I can post for how the hair lengths should be


Yes...please post the pic you have of how the hair lengths should be.


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## TrinityRanch

I really love the doeling! She is a beauty, very nice to look at. My favorite thing about her is her length and topline, least is probably her legs. They seem kind of bent (just in the first picture) and she does look to be toeing out, though it may be the result of a small chest being and her feet set up too widely. She looks a bit down in her back pasterns in that first picture.

The thing that stands out most about your wether is that he is deeper in his belly than in his chest & hindquarters. It gives him a hay-belly look, and he should be even throughout. He lacks length, too, and that makes him look less "wether like". But I do think he has potential be a nice, thick, market animal


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## Brink4

TrinityRanch said:


> I really love the doeling! She is a beauty, very nice to look at. My favorite thing about her is her length and topline, least is probably her legs. They seem kind of bent (just in the first picture) and she does look to be toeing out, though it may be the result of a small chest being and her feet set up too widely. She looks a bit down in her back pasterns in that first picture.
> 
> The thing that stands out most about your wether is that he is deeper in his belly than in his chest & hindquarters. It gives him a hay-belly look, and he should be even throughout. He lacks length, too, and that makes him look less "wether like". But I do think he has potential be a nice, thick, market animal


I agree he is deeper in his belly. His actually has the hay belly look. We have backed off on some of his hay. My daughter has started trying to get him into shape so hopefully some of that comes off


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## Brink4

Okay we finally got the goats shaved. It's not the best as we are still learning. I decided to shave the doe down because her hair was just looking frizzy to me, but my daughter liked it. I hope it grows back in nicer. Let me know what you think now. My daughter is having a hard time teaching the wether to brace so there are no pics of him braced. Thanks


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## Brink4

She is exercising the wether daily and he still has a big stomach. Any ideas to decrease this?? She is running him and walking him both. He is on a 20% feed and we are now changing the feed to another brand.


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## TrinityRanch

How many pounds of food is he getting? I think that 20% is too much, so it is good that you are switching.

I think he looks very nice! He has lost his little hay belly, and other than being a little fat in his barrel, he is in great condition. Good muscling, and his conformation looks much better after a nice shave.

As for bracing, it helps to back them off of a high (but safe) surface so that he feels that he will fall. This helps most of the time, the exception being my wether who happily fell off the surface :doh:
And if that doesn't work, really get into him. Push him, shove him, back him into walls and bushes and fences.... Don't let him off until he is pushing. Even if you have to hold him high off of the ground, and slowly set down his feet. He should catch on. Good luck!


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## BCG

Take away all of his hay to get rid of the belly. If you like, you can give him a very small handful of hay once a week as a treat. You will need to cut back his feed 3-4 days before show to suck him down and tighten that gut. Exercise looks like it's helping his over all look. He's coming along. Keep up the good work.


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## Brink4

TrinityRanch said:


> How many pounds of food is he getting? I think that 20% is too much, so it is good that you are switching.
> 
> I think he looks very nice! He has lost his little hay belly, and other than being a little fat in his barrel, he is in great condition. Good muscling, and his conformation looks much better after a nice shave.
> 
> As for bracing, it helps to back them off of a high (but safe) surface so that he feels that he will fall. This helps most of the time, the exception being my wether who happily fell off the surface :doh:
> And if that doesn't work, really get into him. Push him, shove him, back him into walls and bushes and fences.... Don't let him off until he is pushing. Even if you have to hold him high off of the ground, and slowly set down his feet. He should catch on. Good luck!


Thank you for the tips...I will have her try this for bracing. As for feed he is eating 20% protein feed 2x daily. We are now in the process of switching to Honor Show Chow Impulse feed which I believe is 16% protein. We were going to try the High Octane fitter 35 top dress but at this time I'm not sure. Her show is the last week in July so hopefully all goes well


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## Brink4

BCG said:


> Take away all of his hay to get rid of the belly. If you like, you can give him a very small handful of hay once a week as a treat. You will need to cut back his feed 3-4 days before show to suck him down and tighten that gut. Exercise looks like it's helping his over all look. He's coming along. Keep up the good work.


Thank you for the tips on decreasing the feed intake the last couple days. I never knew this. Right now he is getting very minimal hay (just a little handful every other day). Decreasing the hay has definitely helped a lot over the last couple of weeks.


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## GTAllen

You need a low fat high protein feed for wethers. Showrite Glen Martin Grand Drive is really good. Essential Show Goat is good. HSC Impluse is not bad, some goats get turned off by the funky smell, it is good if you are trying hold them.


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## Brink4

GTAllen said:


> You need a low fat high protein feed for wethers. Showrite Glen Martin Grand Drive is really good. Essential Show Goat is good. HSC Impluse is not bad, some goats get turned off by the funky smell, it is good if you are trying hold them.


I'm not sure if any of our local feed stores in the county or surrounding counties carry any of them. I will definitely look into it. The feed we are switching from is Star Master Show Goat Feed it is 20% protein and 4% fat. We had good results with it last year. The reason we switched was I have heard all the good results people have with HSC Impulse and thought maybe we would benefit. Not sure now because I really don't want to hold him yet he is around 77 pounds now.


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## Brink4

Ok what do you guys think?? We take this big boy to the fair tomorrow and he won't be coming home with us at the end of the week I thought I would show you the final pics prior to fair. Last weight was on July 5th and he weighed 92 pounds. She has worked very hard with him this year exercising him 2x daily for short intense intervals (hope it pays off)! I'm worried he may have too much finish over his loin, but am not positive because I am still learning


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## Brink4

One more picture.


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## ogfabby

I love seeing his transformation. He looks great!


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## Brink4

ogfabby said:


> I love seeing his transformation. He looks great!


Thank you! We have enjoyed watching the changes and comparing earlier pics to later ones. It's definitely been a learning experience


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