# Possible herd sire?



## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

This guy is the only mini Nubian buck I can find even remotely in my area. No stud service anywhere here, either. What do you think? Sounds like a promising buck but I am pretty new to goats....

http://omaha.craigslist.org/grd/5559967123.html


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I think he has too many flaws. Steep rump, posty legs, not upright, short stocky neck, short canons. 
He has strong front legs, good pasterns, good brisket and good depth though.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Also udder pics from mom and dad's side?


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

What generation are your does? This buckling is an F1, so the highest your kids could be is F2. If you are breeding for generation, he wouldn't be a great fit for you. Don't let "flawless conformation" fool you. They are mostly talking about his "rare" coloring.


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I think he has too many flaws. Steep rump, posty legs, not upright, short stocky neck, short canons.
> He has strong front legs, good pasterns, good brisket and good depth though.


Are these flaws a concern just for showing, or for health? I'm not interested in shows, just milk. I went with minis for creamier milk, hardiness/better parasite resistance, and so we could breed and milk all year round.


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> What generation are your does? This buckling is an F1, so the highest your kids could be is F2. If you are breeding for generation, he wouldn't be a great fit for you. Don't let "flawless conformation" fool you. They are mostly talking about his "rare" coloring.


Mine are F1 also, so the highest we could get are F2 anyway.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

I wouldn't. His conformation is not good, she's trying to sell him as spectacular instead of being honest. 

There are health reasons to look at conformation, that's why it's always important to actually be able to recognize a well put together goat instead of just going off of color, which is what it sounds like that breeder is doing. His back legs are going to break down before they should, his steep rump will make his doelings have more trouble kidding, the uphill dairy structure is to help does empty out their uterus after kiddings. Length for space for kids, depth to make room for good rumen capacity while pregnant, etc etc etc.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Udders are very, very important for dairy goats, a well put together udder will produce more milk and also hold together much longer. When they aren't attached well and have poor medial they will sag and tear, and result in bad injuries. Something to think about as well.


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay, thank you for your help! Here are some more pictures...Any more thoughts?

http://www.sterlingstonefarm.com/#!armani/c8zf


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep, I agree with all that deerbunny said. There are reason behind all the conformation standards.


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

He looks OK. Definitely a steep rump and he looks rather posty. He might look better in person.

What are your goals for your herd? If you want to raise and sell mini Nubians, I would probably keep looking for the best buck you can find. (He is half the herd, after all). 
But, if you're just starting out and you don't really know what you want or where to go, well, I know I'd rather learn and make mistakes with a $150 buck than one in the $400-$600 range.


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay, here's a pic of his mom's udder. She the third one down, Jumpin' Bean.

http://www.nomadnubians.com/mini-nubians.html


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

ShireRidgeFarm said:


> He looks OK. Definitely a steep rump and he looks rather posty. He might look better in person.
> 
> What are your goals for your herd? If you want to raise and sell mini Nubians, I would probably keep looking for the best buck you can find. (He is half the herd, after all).
> But, if you're just starting out and you don't really know what you want or where to go, well, I know I'd rather learn and make mistakes with a $150 buck than one in the $400-$600 range.


My goals for my herd are really just milk for my own family and the ability to sell the kids fairly easily and for a decent price (since having kids is the only way to get milk). I'd rather not spend a fortune, but I also would rather put in the work (or money, or whatever) up front to save myself some headaches later.


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

That's where he gets his bad legs and rump from. I don't know a lot about Nubians or their udders but hers doesn't look impressive to me. Not a strong medial, teats way out touching her legs. But she seems to be milking well.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

Perhaps you might need to widen your search area to find more selection. Goats aren't hard to transport, especially if you don't cross state lines. If I were you I'd locate some commercial dairies--I know people who get surplus bucklings from dairies for $35 just to eat them. You should get good dairy genes that way. Some dairies also show their goats; so then conformation should be OK too. Maybe it's worth looking into or maybe not. It's interesting to visit these dairies anyway!

Edit: I just noticed they're MINI Nubians so never mind!:hammer:


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## COgoatLover25 (Dec 23, 2013)

For a mini Nubian her udder is pretty decent. Her body style not so much. Of course, I've never seen a mini Nubian I've been impressed with hence I raise standard Nubians. I would keep looking to see if you found anything else, if there's not anymore options and you are just wanting your goats for milk then I don't see any harm in going with him


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## DawnStar (May 19, 2013)

These folks have given some very good sound advise! The other problem here is that kids are the result of breeding for milk, and if they inherit bad conformation and get sold to someone else who "only wants milk" too, then the problem perpetuates itself. The risk is that other people who purchase from you and breed a poorly built goat may have problems with difficult labors etc. Show/Conformation standards are a guideline to selecting healthy animals, not a fashion statement. 

With that being said, we have a buck for sale that doesn't hold still for pictures, tucks his butt, and looks god awful on camera because he just doesn't hold still! In person he is much more level, and produces level offspring... You could set a wine glass on his daughters hips, so seeing an animal in person and watching it move is also something to do when purchasing any animal. 

Secondly, I ask for registration and look up the animals in the pedigree to see for myself if there are any significant dairy ancestors. Animals with *'+,D, M, P respectively are animals with a proven milking background, or have produced proven dairy offspring... Very important for milk, and having animals that will pass on good milking genetics to their offspring.

For mini breeds it is more challenging to find proven producers, since most minis are bred basically to be pets, or their breeders do not register their animals or participate in DHi to show that their breedings are maintaining the dairy quality necessary for their minis to be a dairy goat in the first place.


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## Melinda29 (Apr 19, 2016)

So here's something interesting...I did more research on this guy's ancestry and he can only be, at most, 1/16th Nigerian. His full sister is also on the website and listed as 15/16th Nubian, 1/16th Nigerian. How can she honestly call him a mini Nubian? What if I had used him with my legitimately F1 mini Nubian...the babies would have been too big!!! 

THEN I saw today that she pulled his original craigslist ad and re-listed him as a meat goat to be sold ASAP. So he probably has something wrong, something contagious that she needs him gone fast, right? I'm so glad I checked with you guys before trusting her legitimate sounding ad and pretty website...


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## ShireRidgeFarm (Sep 24, 2015)

Wow, that sounds super sketchy! :shock: The website did look very legit, too.


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## catharina (Mar 17, 2016)

You should flag her ads on Craigslist. If enough people do it they'll take it down. Send the ad here & we can all flag it! :veryangry:


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