# Banding Gone Wrong!??



## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

I have recently banded two buckling about 10 days ago. Everything was completely normal the first couple of hours. They moped around and walked bow legged. The next couple of days they were back to normal as if nothing happened. On day three one buckling was standing really hunch backed and wasn't moving. Then another kid knocked him over and he just layer there. I immediately picked him up and separated him. I examined him thoroughly and everything looked to be normal. I kept him separated and gave him his own food and water. His testicles are below the band, there is nothing that I feel above the band, his nipple are not in the band & everything looks completely normal. He also has a steady strong pee and does not struggle to pee at all. He has progressively gotten worse. Now it's to the point he won't even stand. I have him back on a bottle because he isn't eating hay. He will take a bottle normal with a healthy appetite, however. I am at a complete loss here. I have never had this happen and I have banded many bucklings. What could be going on?? Why will he not even stand anymore??


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## burtfarms (Apr 4, 2013)

I am at loss, you checked everything I would have. Hopefully someone will chime in to help you. How old is he?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Has he been treated for coccidia? Dewormed?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It may be unrelated to the banding...
did they get a tetanus antitoxin shot before banding?
get his temp ASAP
give B complex


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

He is 12 weeks old. I practice Cochiti Osos prevention, he had is first and second cd&t and has been wormed all before banding. I believe it has to do with the banding and is not any other ailment because it all has been a progression of his walking. He was walking like his back legs bowed out. He walked really slow but now he won't stand long enough to eat a whole bottle. So you think I should give him a shot of Vitamin B complex??


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would go a head and give tetanus antitoxin....get his temp to see if he has infection....this way you will know if antibiotics are needed...and yes..start with a b complex shot...

It might be better to cut the testes off..a very shape knife will make quick work of it and give him relief...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

I will take his temp and give vitamin B. To cut off the testes do I just cut at the base of the band farthest from his belly? Or should I cut open the bottom of the scrotum? IF I take that course of action. The testicles are still plump but very cold.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You would cut just above the band, where it should already be "dead'...one quick swipe if you can


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would cut below the band and leave the band in place. It will fall off when the skin heals. 

It sounds like he wasn't eating well and has began a Polio type reaction, I would treat with Thiamine or Fortified B Complex every 6 hours.
Did you feel to be sure there wasn't a loop of intestine in his scrotal sac before banding?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> I would cut below the band and leave the band in place. It will fall off when the skin heals.


Thank you Jill.... That does make more sense...:think:...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

I just went to check on him and try getting him to stand. He is too weak. I started feeling all over him, which I have been doing but not with the thought anything is going wrong besides the banding, and his joints are swollen. I gave him a bottle and he still has a strong appetite. I have misplaced my thermometer so I am going to look a little harder and hope I find it soon. Could the swollen joints have something to do with the fact he has been laying around for three days?


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

How old is he? Did you recently band him? Start by taking his temp, and giving b complex in case of polio. If he's running a fever antibiotics are needed, and banamine or baby aspirin would help.

Don't let him lay on his side, prop him up and keep warm and comfy.


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

I have recently banded him. My initial though was something went wrong with the banding but now am thinking it may be something completely different. He has been laying in a normal position. His shoulders are upright his front feet tucked under his chest and back legs out to the side in front of him. I keep positioning him on the opposite side as he wont do it himself.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh no...swollen joints sound like joint ill...does this seem like it?
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/musculoskeletal_system/lameness_in_goats/joint-ill_in_goats.html


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Swollen joints could be joint ill..I would treat ASAP.with joint ill you can waste time in hopes for a successful recovery...get his temp...give B complex as a support..

best antibiotics in order preference

Baytril 4 cc per 100# once daily 
Nuflor 3 ccper 100# once daily
LA 200 1 cc per 20# once daily
tyaln 200 1 cc per 25# twice daily
penicillin.. 1 cc per 20# twice daily

no matter if its a long acting medication ..it must be given once a day for a full 10 days 

also Bananmine for 3 days to start then assess is more is needed...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

He is almost 12 weeks old.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

we also need to keep to one post per case...you now have two on the same buck help can be divided...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

Ok I will look into joint ill and I have found my thermometer. I am going to take his temp now. Sorry about the double post I was just thinking it may not have to do with banding and thought It may help to get a better answer. Thanks for all the help and I will let you know what his temp reads.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no problem...I merged both threads...so now we have all his info in one place...we will wait for his temp


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

also scroll up where I posted treatment for joint ill...treatment needs to start ASAP ...joint ill is hard to deal with and aggressive treatment is needed


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

I checked his temp and it reads 104.1. I am going to give him a shot of vitamin b and I don't have LA 200 but I have Byomicin. So I will start him on a treatment for that.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

byomycin is better..less sting..same med as LA 200 with different carrier 
I would get him Banamine as well..it will help with the pain, inflammation and fever


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Hope he pulls through for you!


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

Thank you so much for all your help! I sure hope he gets better!! I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

The little guy stood up for the first time in three days tonight. All by himself. I was so excited! I hope this is a sign of him turning around for a quick recovery.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Wonderful..be sure to do a full ten day treatment...even.if he feels better...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

Wow! 10 days? I was thinking 5 days. That is what I have read anyway. He is standing up from time to time. Mainly at feeding time. Tonight he actually stood for a few minutes while eating hay. His joints still look really swollen though. I can't really tell much difference in the swelling. After the 10 days of treatment will he still be swollen or will it be gone for the most part?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yes..for join or navel ill it needs to be a full ten full days of antibiotics...you should begin to see improvement any time...I would have thought by now even...Is he on Banamine?

if all goes well...by the end of ten days he should be well...some goats who recover from Joint ill do develop arthritis later in life...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

The little guy is doing so much better now. Last night was his last antibiotic shot. Would you guess he now has diarrhea!? I'm hoping it is just because he has been on antibiotics for 10 days though. I gave him some pro bios and am thinking about giving him another shot of B Complex. He is much more active and gets around almost as he should. He wags his tail and gets happy when I come around. Still a bit swollen in his joints but definitely has been going down. I'm hoping that will still continue. Any suggestions or input on the diarrhea though?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

So happy hes feeling better..Keep with daily probiotics 3-4 hours after antibiotics..and keep a close eye on him for relapse...with his joints still.swollen..I would be reluctant to stop.treatment..joint ill can go sepsis and effect kidney and bladder.....
Pepto is good for runny poo..dark brown to black can be worm/cocci while green tint dietary...and yes..it could be do to medication as well...


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## CryBow (Mar 27, 2015)

Okay! It is green scours. He has been wormed and treated for coccidiosis prevention within the last month. I didn't know about the poo color though. Very good to know! It's mainly his back thigh joints that are swollen. He still walks funny with his back legs. More than 10 days of antibiotics won't cause harm in other areas?? He was really bad! He couldn't walk or stand 10 days ago. Even trying to move his legs made him scream. So, in theory, if the antibiotics DID work he should have no swelling by the time he is healed?? Or is it possible he was so far before I treated him that his back legs will always be messed up? I know later in life he may get arthritis but for now.. Should he fully recover?


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## Tapestry (Feb 5, 2015)

Blood supply to within the joint is limited, so when dealing with infections inside the joint, you may have to give antibiotics longer than normal. This doesn't mean the antibiotic isn't working, just that it's ability to completely clear away infection is limited, so it needs extra time to get the job done. I would want him on antibiotics longer.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...swelling is an indication the infection is still hanging on...I would go 5 more days and then see how he is..and go from there...giving probiotics 3-4 hours after injection to help his flora...it is hard on his system..I wont lie...I hate to go so long..but a relapse will be so much harder...I would even do three days of banamine if he were mine...to help the swelling...you can see if he will eat a sprig of fresh dill or Dandelion daily, this can help cleanse the liver from all the meds.. extra fluid will help flush him as well..



> Should he fully recover?


All I can assure you is you are doing all you can to help him recover...joint ill can be a nasty beast and if it enters the blood system (sepsis) then it will be a hard downhill battle..keeping him a little longer on antibiotics can help prevent sepsis...


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## Syphon20 (Apr 10, 2021)

happybleats said:


> I agree...swelling is an indication the infection is still hanging on...I would go 5 more days and then see how he is..and go from there...giving probiotics 3-4 hours after injection to help his flora...it is hard on his system..I wont lie...I hate to go so long..but a relapse will be so much harder...I would even do three days of banamine if he were mine...to help the swelling...you can see if he will eat a sprig of fresh dill or Dandelion daily, this can help cleanse the liver from all the meds.. extra fluid will help flush him as well..
> 
> 
> 
> All I can assure you is you are doing all you can to help him recover...joint ill can be a nasty beast and if it enters the blood system (sepsis) then it will be a hard downhill battle..keeping him a little longer on antibiotics can help prevent sepsis...


I am reading this in 2021 and really wish there was another update.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Syphon20 said:


> am reading this in 2021 and really wish there was another update.


Are you having an issue? If so make a post and let us help you figure it out. We are happy to help if we can.


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## Syphon20 (Apr 10, 2021)

happybleats said:


> Are you having an issue? If so make a post and let us help you figure it out. We are happy to help if we can.


Thank you, no, no problem, I am just learning.


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