# Show Wethers and Hay???



## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

We had our 1st goat/lamb clinic last night and the FFA teacher said that he does not advise the kids feeding the goats hay AT ALL because it can "spring" their ribs. He said we could give the wethers "a handfull" of high quality alfalfa every two or three days (but that is all!) 

We keep my daughters wether at our ranch and the teacher came out to view her wether last week--at that home visit he had told my husband then that we needed to take away all of his hay. 

When he told us this at the "home visit" I cut way back on his hay-but had never considered taking it away entirely. Last night, at the clinic, I understood how strongly he DOES NOT want them to have hay at all and NONE of those little goats in the ag barn have ANY hay! 

Is this right? Will he be healthy??? I worry about the long term effects-not only for our wether (because he deserves to be healthy too even though he is a market animal) but because I have our buckling, Mojo, living with the wether. So any diet that the wether is on-they both have to be on. 

If it is ok then no worries, but it does not sound healthy to me???


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

goats knead some sort of long fiber to have the rumen function properly. Is he saying got replace the hay with alfalfa cubes or something? I am not sure that he is giving good advice.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

He clearly said--feed them all the grain they will eat and ONLY give them a handfull of the highest quality alfalfa (with lots of leaves in it) every 2 to 3 days--he said the alfalfa given this way "will make the tummies happy"


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Can't wait to hear what others think. 

Spell check; oh my gosh!! need not knead.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

:laugh: 

Re: hearing what the others think-yeah, me too!

I want my daughter to be successful showing but the animals safety/wellbeing is also a major factor for me! Otherwise I consider it cheating to win!


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

My daughter shows wethers also - and your FFA teacher is correct in that you cannot feed them much hay because they "belly out" and they don't eat as much grain. Are they Boer Goats? Not that it makes any difference I don't think, just curious. 

The theory behind this feeding regiment as it was explained to me is they need as much grain as they will eat to grow and produce more lean meat. The more hay they eat, they gain less actual good meat eright. Hay is a "filler." They do need some for their rumen, but not as much as you think. Its kinds of the opposite with dairy goats I think, because you don't slaughter them, usually. 

We have only had goats for a year, so I am not an expert, but his advice is the same I received from our breeders and our 4-H leadesr, who have shown goats for years. 

I feed hay every other day, but I do not feed alfalfa, because it "can" contribute to UC. And having been through that once and lost a great goat, I tend to by overly cautious so not to have it again. I feed a high quality forage or oat hay.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, they are boers

Is there any danger for them--feeding them this way? Will the wether and my bucks rumens stay healthy?? Is there anything I can do to ensure the rumen stays healthy?


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

We just finished our second fair, and second set of "market goats" and they were all fine. Plus, I am not sure which feed you have them on, but mine has alfalfa in it, so I am sure that helps them too. I know one breeder that does not feed her wethers any hay for that reason. I still do though, because they love it so much!

I don't have a buck, so I can't speak there. But I would think he would be fine too.

And, as I am quite obsessed with the goats, I pay close attention every day to whether they are eating, peeing, pooping, look happy, how their bellies look, etc. I think we all do that on here! So try it and just keep an eye on it. Be prepared though, as they grow, they eat alot of feed!


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

OK I will check my feed to see if it has any alfalfa in it. Would it be ok to give them some alfalfa pellets everyday? Would that bloat them? Would that give them the roughage they need?

I don't mind things cost-wise as long as they remain healthy. Gotta keep my goaties happy and healthy :greengrin:


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## GotmygoatMTJ (Apr 25, 2009)

They don't care about the goats wellbeing or the fact that its not good for their rumen and can cause pneumonia. Eating hay is like a fireplace. When the rumen is active it keeps the goats warm at night.

When I had wethers I always gave them hay. No, I didn't win. I raised 2 show wethers, and both of them did well at their shows. One won Reserve Grand (also the only red in the class, when colors weren't cool) and the other was 4th out of a big class at a Regionals show! He was also the only black goat in his class when blacks were just starting to catch on. 

Maybe just feed his hay from a high place so he has to stretch his tummy muscles, and also his butt muscles.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

see I don't care about all the other jazz they were talking about last night at the clinic too--because alot of those wethers were small/underfed (as the school kids just got them) and they were not in the best condition. 

Our wether does not need a jumpstart on the grain like alot of those goats do. Therefore--if he eats some hay I am not "filling" him on empty roughage or calories. This wether has been with us since he was weaned (born in later March/came home w/us in May) and he is BIG he is already 80lbs and has good weight/bulk. So we don't have to "power pack" him w/feed. He and my buckling are offered enough grain in the a.m. and in the p.m. that there is usually some left over that they don't eat. 

I agree re: the hay keeps their systems moving--that is why I worry w/not offering it.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Its my personal preference not to feed hay. Instead my wethers got to graze and browse just about everyday... basically whenever it was raining I took them out for about an hour or two a day and let them do their thing. I never had any problems with bloat or anything else with the digestion. I do know people whos wether don't browse or get hay and they're fine. 

I think that since they are a terminal project the heavy graining doesn't really affect them. I did make sure they were peeing, pooping and acting normal everyday. 

If you really think about it the rumen holds hay for 18-24 hours before its expelled. So every other day would be plenty of hay to keep the rumen functioning. I did give mine loads of leaves, branches, they grazed our yard (which I believe is a coastal bermuda blend) and such.


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## VincekFarm (Jun 27, 2011)

Well all of my goats eat hay and grain along with a bit of forage that I pick for them. I don't have the situation where I can give my goats pasture, they are just in pens. I previously owned a wether and he did quite well at the shows despite me feeding him hay.. and he didn't get any grain; just hay and forage.


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

I forgot to mention too that mine get oak leaves every day. There are the ones that fall in their pen, and the branches we pick off and feed them. Goats don't need "hay" necessarily for their rumen - pasture and forage are their natural food anyway.

Burns: Are you raising your wether for a fair project? If he's already 80 pounds I was just curious how much longer you will have him and what your weight goal is - the grain puts weight on faster than hay any day. 

My daughter just sold her wether at our fair last week - he was born in March also and weighed in at 93 pounds.


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## goatnutty (Oct 9, 2007)

They told us the same thing, feed a small amount off hay ever couple days to keep he rumen going nd that is it. That way they don't get a hay belly! I have been showing for 6 years now and never had a problem with me wethers!


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

goatgirlzca: yes, his size has been a main worry of mine. All the other wethers are smallish when compared to him. Most of they weigh between 40 and 60lbs. He is every bit of 80lbs-but he is still lean and lined w/muscle (not round or chunky fat). 

I had heard that there was a maximum weight (the "goal" fair of the year is next March!!) I had been told by a few of my friends that the maximum would be posted on the county fair's website--I looked and the website stated there was only a minimum-no maximum. So I asked the FFA teacher to view our goat (as he lives at our ranch-not the ag barn) and he did not say anything about his size-just to keep hay away from him. 

:shrug: So the weight thing has me a bit confused--I also thought they could not "go over" a certain size. 

My plan is just to grain him as I would my other goats and condition him w/excercise. He def. does not NEED to gain weight or muscle mass (luckily he has natural potential I guess :laugh: )


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

I can post some better pictures but Macho Man (the wether in quesition lol! is the goat in my avatar)


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## goatgirlzCA (Mar 9, 2011)

So here's another thing to check - since he will be a year old at fair, do they require that they still have their milk teeth? Because most fairs have an age limit as well, or at least the teeth requirement. And at around a year old is when they start losing their milk teeth. Ideal age for fairs is usually 8-10 months of age.

And if the fair doesn't have a maximum weight, they surely will have what they call a "heavyweight" class, which are goats over "ideal" size. We had goats at our fair earlier this month at 118 pounds! Great for sale by the pound, but they didn't do so great in the ring ...

I would definitely pay attention to how much grain you give him, and cut it down if he's gaining too fast, and give him small amounts of hay, and keep an eye on his waistline or weigh him regularly! Exercise helps a lot too.

I have a wether that was born in February that my daughter is going to try and keep in shape so she can use him at jackpot shows with in January-March next year - I am going to have to really watch his size too, and his teeth!

Hope that helps ...


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

That does help! Thanks and I will do just that. I have already decided I am going to keep giving them small amounts of hay everyday-I just feel that is best for them. (just a little bit-nothing that could make the wether bloat)

I am keeping an eye on his weight gain and plan to "sit on the growth" as much as I can. 

I had never considered the teeth as something the judges would look at. He was born late march this year, so he will be 2 weeks shy of 1 year at the big show, but who knows what the teeth will "say" to the judge! 

Well anyhow-we plan to have fun this year and use it as a learning experience. This is our 1st year in FFA but we will have many more 

Thank you everyone for all the helpful tips--it is good to know I am sort of on the right track!


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## Paige (Oct 14, 2010)

I feed hay like they are dairy goats and my last wether did great. Missed reserve champion by a hair.


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

I believe we have to set a "limit" to the things we'll do to an animal for our own entertainment and for me...cutting out forage (a feed source REQUIRED for a healthy ruminant) is a BIG no no. I think the people who do that are cruel. I can't even imagine the ratio of bloat, polio and other health issues goats on that feed cycle must have to endure.  Set a new standard.... feed properly, make sure your wethers get exercise, kick butt in the ring and then make sure to give your goats a big 'ol flake of alfalfa right in front of everyone! LOL  

Plus,if your goat is a market wether, hay fed will be MUCH healthier for the consumer.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

myfainters said:


> I believe we have to set a "limit" to the things we'll do to an animal for our own entertainment and for me...cutting out forage (a feed source REQUIRED for a healthy ruminant) is a BIG no no. I think the people who do that are cruel. I can't even imagine the ratio of bloat, polio and other health issues goats on that feed cycle must have to endure.  Set a new standard.... feed properly, make sure your wethers get exercise, kick butt in the ring and then make sure to give your goats a big 'ol flake of alfalfa right in front of everyone! LOL
> 
> Plus,if your goat is a market wether, hay fed will be MUCH healthier for the consumer.


 :clap: :clap: :leap: WELL SAID :clap: :clap: :leap:


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

I do not know how I have missed this but I feed my girls 4-H wethers hay all year. This year it was 1 market wether, 1 market doe, and 2 breeding does all born in January in 1 pen. They got a flake of hay morning and night and I gave them a total of 5 pounds of feed a day(which I am going to up next year). Kerigan's wether was 96 pounds at the fair and if you just cut back the hay at the fair they will loose the belly. He did not get any hay the day of the show until after he showed. I do not believe in cutting out the hay because they need it. Plus he did not fill up on hay because I always feed the grain first then feed hay and he grew just fine. I think 96 pounds at 7 months is pretty good don't you and that was with hay and limited grain.
This was buddy right after the show this year


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## GoatGirlMO (Aug 13, 2010)

This is our regimen for our show wethers:

Our fairs are from June-August. Our wethers are born anywhere from September to January. 

Fall born wethers are weaned and tossed in the field at three months. We let them grow up slow and steady until April.

January kids are weaned and put in the weaning pen at weigh in, which is generally the middle of April. Fall wethers are added to the mix at weigh in.

We start feeding the concentrates the day after weigh in, working up to about 4% of their body weight. 

They each get a handful of high-quality grass hay (no alfalfa) twice a day. Consistent hay bellies can spring their ribs abnormally and give them a pot-bellied appearance. The other reason for cutting back on hay is that your feed is a complete diet, and the hay is probably lacking in at least a few things. Not to mention, it's not as high in protein or fat as your show feed. You don't want him tanking up on hay and then not eating all his ration. 

We turn them out for about an hour every day. The run around our pond area where there is some grass, some browse, some leaves, and a play area. 

Our goal weight is 75-80 lbs. Of course, if one of the fine fellows is going to be bigger than that, we let him. 

On show day, we don't feed breakfast until we are done in the ring (our shows are typically early morning anyway). We never withold water.

If, for some reason, one of the guys gets sick in anyway, we pull all grain and give them a couple more handfuls of hay each day until everything is normal again. Then we start working the feed back in.

Everyone has different opinions on what is best concerning hay. The big time show jocks don't hay a lot, that is for sure. Some people feed lots of hay and do fine, probably not great. A lot has to do with the quality of your competition. My family's goal is to place high in our class at the local fairs and at the state fair, and do right by our goats.... so we work out a feeding/exercise practice that works for us.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

RPC that wether is gorgeous! What a pretty boy!!!

Goatgirl-thanks this info helps ALOT!

I feel much better knowing it is ok to still feed hay-the boys did not ever get alot anyway and they sure do not have a hay bellly. So I am gonna continue as I have and enjoy knowing I am doing the best to keep our boys healthy and happy. Like others have said--there are limits for our family in regards health vs winning at a show (but I don't think giving the hay we do will compromise our chances, especially listenting to the advice given here :wink: )


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## polopony (Jun 24, 2011)

I still give a little hay every day, but not much. I have a hard time getting grain with and alfalfa base, so I do give them a little hay every day but not much. Exercise will increase his appetite.


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

myfainters said:


> I believe we have to set a "limit" to the things we'll do to an animal for our own entertainment and for me...cutting out forage (a feed source REQUIRED for a healthy ruminant) is a BIG no no. I think the people who do that are cruel. I can't even imagine the ratio of bloat, polio and other health issues goats on that feed cycle must have to endure.  Set a new standard.... feed properly, make sure your wethers get exercise, kick butt in the ring and then make sure to give your goats a big 'ol flake of alfalfa right in front of everyone! LOL
> 
> Plus,if your goat is a market wether, hay fed will be MUCH healthier for the consumer.


Thank you Jess for what you said! Having 4 wethers as pets and I do not show so didn't know if or how to reply.....but not giving wethers hay in my opinion is just wrong....but I am coming from a different side of this subject.


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