# Buck that I am purchasing (more then likely)



## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

This is the sire to the four new does that I brought home yesterday. He is scared to death of people, but he is a nice looking man. Very small - nicely put together. She offered him to me when I picked up the girls - but hubby said no at the moment - but she is keeping him through spring at least and I can purchase him at any time.

You can see his pedigree through any of my new registered girls' thread.

I call him HNK but his registered name is HugsandKisses (for a boy!!)

He is a looker for sure!


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I really like him! His color would be "buckskin" right? He is a deep and wide boy and his "toes" look real good!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Yah he seems pretty straight and nice - but he needs a nail trim bad. The girls hooves were pretty bad so I can only imagine how his are.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

handsome boy for sure.......................


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Nice boy!


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## FancyAppy (Oct 21, 2008)

Beautiful color and love his overall look. Hope he is yours in the Spring.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

He's very handsome, but since you have 4 of his daughters now I would just find another buck. I like his sire (Megabuck) but I don't know anything about his dam's side. I would just look for an unrelated buck who's even better if you can. Your buck should always be better than your does so that he can improve your does.

Congratulations on the 4 new additions!!!


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I have Turner also as an upcoming buck, and I am keeping my eyes open for another buck - but we will see.

Thanks all~


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

That is a good point Ashley brought up. . . . didn't even cross my mind. You'll only be able to breed him to some of your does. That would make things a little more difficult. 

That's the main (and probably only reason) we're selling Royal Blue next year. We'll have several daughters by then and can't breed them to him - cannot handle more than two bucks (yes, I'm looking at getting two new bucklings! :hammer: )

His dam's line is pretty nice - you can see one of her daughters (by another sire, not MegaBuck) on Camanna's website. Her name is Mountain Quest JE Aplet Magic - real dairy doe and earned two CH titles this year, as a six-year old! Only time I saw her in person was in the winter and she didn't look so great (fluffy and all) but she must be nice.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

there are some things i like about him and other things i dont. he is a very hairy little guy and i cant tell anything about his front end assembly. His back end could definatly be better he is steep and toes out quite a bit. he does apear hocky but would need a rear picture to fully evaluate it. for a small herd that you already have four daughters i dont think i would get him. How long will you really be able to use him?

beth


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I understand what everyone is saying about him being related..... but I also beg to differ on that being a reason NOT to get him.

How many people actualy keep daughters out of their bucks? I would assume quite a few people do. And his daughters you can see --- do you like those does? do they have the potential, are they an improvement on their dam and sire? If so then he would be a great addition to breed to your unrelated does (which you have quite a few now). Now if you dont like his daughters and he doesnt bring to your farm what you need to improve upon on your does then he wouldnt be a good choice.

From what I can tell (and I could be wrong so feel free to correct me) Allison you want to have a nice herd of nigerian show goats. And to do that you will need a couple bucks and several does. So one buck isnt going to be your end all, you will end up with more  Plus if you keep any "Dirt" kids those doelings wouldnt be related to this buck and therefore he would be able to service them in years to come.

I am not saying you should get him, just giving another angle to look at. 

Personally I dont like his look, seems kind of different to me but I cant put my finger on it. Maybe it is the pictures :shrug: they dont always capture the true essance of something.

But I do agree he is pretty correct looking.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

It takes a lot of time to prove a buck and its harder to keep a buck whom you already have daughters from when you are waiting to freshen those daughters and need a buck to breed them to as well as proving other bucks with your other does? Sound confusing? That's what I was dealing with this year. I had 3 bucks that I do have kids from and 2 juniors whom I wanted to prove next. So that meant I needed to thin the buck population down. That meant, those whom I had the daughters of had to go.

Also, another theory I've worked with here too is.... say you have a buck. You breed him to several does and keep daughters in order to prove him as well as hoping for the best udders by the crossing. Next season comes and you have to cross the daughters to a different buck in order to see the daughter's udders. He sits on the back burner eating and taking up space but not really doing much servicing. What if the daughters do freshen with less than ideal udders? Then he's been fed a whole year and has to go. Along with his daughters most likely. But.... what if they do freshen nicely? I mean if you already kept numerous daughters of his do you still intend to keep him for more breeding? I don't aim to have my herd that closely related. So he would still wind up going. So for me it was a better choice to let the buck go. I mean if I do sell him and his daughters freshen well beyond my expectations (which of course is what I want) then I still have his daughters. Crossing them with even nicer bucks could result in even nicer kids and udders.

Quite the chore deciding isn't it? LOL This year I did keep a buckling from Faith. He's being crossed with quite a few of my does who are not related to him. I already have aspirations of selling him due to who I'll likely retain if I'm blessed with what I want. I may retain a new buckling from Faith next year. With River and Rev if I do keep sons out of them they'll likely move on due to the close relation to them. 

I have come to a crossroads though. I don't want to rush and sell Rev or River. Those two would sell too easily too. LOL I already have a lot of people wanting River so that just tells me to hang onto him. So he maybe one I do repeat breedings with for the next year too. Provided his kids sell easily.

Ok, I've rambled on long enough.  Hope this does help in deciding. I have kept 4 of Rue's daughters this year, just sold one though. And even if they freshen absolutely stunning I still wouldn't have much use for him for another year with the direction my herd is going.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Another very good point Ashley brings out. . . .  

Maybe if your new girls freshen with really nice udders in the spring you can get him but if they are only average then try to find something nicer? At least you won't be feeding him over the winter. He also looks like he needs more rear leg angulation. He is very hairy so it is difficult to tell for sure.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm full of pointless trains of thought. Haha :ROFL: Follow your gut. It tends to lead you in the right direction. If you do have other registered does and need him then that might be a good thing. Do you have a buck for his 4 daughters?


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I have found the most successful herds have a prominant proven sire, or several of them. Bucks known for producing quality. 

Then there are herds who do not have that one sire who they count on, but several not as proven sires, their herds tend to lack the consistancy that I like, even if they have award winning does. 
I do not use the strategy of trading bucks around, I want to find the "one" who I base my herd on. That is my personal strategy.

That being said you DO have to see daughters mature and freshen to decide who is worth being your herd "king". LOL, I ramble don't I?!?


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes, I am breeding the 3 older (2 1/2 year old FF) to Joe Dirt before he leaves. That way they will freshen before I decide for sure if I want him or not. I am also trying to breed Joe to my 3 of my other registered does also - 1 I know for sure he "serviced". I plan on keeping a few does and maybe a buck from Joe if I can. Then in Spring, I will have 2 unregistered and 1 registered does to breed to a new buck and then in llate spring I will have a registered doe and a pygmy to breed also. Turner will hopefully be able to do the later breedings by then. My other girls will be serviced by the Nubian buck if they don't take from Joe or the Boer Buck before they leave.


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## Sweet Gum Minis (Oct 6, 2007)

Well I've also seen farms who hang onto bucks and use them over and over every year and I see their daughters and they believe they're quality but they're not near as nice as they paint them up to be. Champion buck too but he's not worth the keep if he can't produce daughters better than he is.

I want to improve, improve and improve. If you use the same buck all the time you will never get any better unless you inbreed/line breed heavily. I am not against using some linebreeding, but I've seen some farms that are just inbred. Gorgeous animals though, but makes you wonder what the personalities are like in those animals. LOL


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I like the looks of his daughters, of course you won't be using him on them, but with your other does, he is a fuzzy guy, but most don't clip their bucks at all, I never did til this past year. Once his daughters freshen, you will have a better idea of who to breed him with...to improve different qualities and of course, hopefully you'll have Dirt Daughters to breed and even out those qualities. You won't know how ANY of those kids will turn out unless they are concieved and if you choose not to get him because of one "fault" or another, you will never know. Besides, if you end up with pet quality kids, you can sell them as that and have the money to get a "better" buck if you want to or are able to.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

> Well I've also seen farms who hang onto bucks and use them over and over every year and I see their daughters and they believe they're quality but they're not near as nice as they paint them up to be. Champion buck too but he's not worth the keep if he can't produce daughters better than he is.


Exactly! I say a buck ain't worth a penny unless he produces nice daughters. I guess I want the happy medium, a prominant buck and other bucks to cross out with.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

I know that you all are trying to help with critiques and what not and I do understand that - but I wanted to bring a couple points out to share "my side" with everyone. I am by no way judging anyone or "upset" but I feel like now I must explain my “inability” to purchase the best of the best and that I am doing what I can with the budget, time, availability that I can that fit into my breeding schedule.

I am a working adult who works 40+hours a week. I also go to school full time for my Bachelor's degree (which is NOT easy). We have a total of 5 kids - 2 of which live with us full time. My work is 40 minutes from the ranch and hubbies is another 30-40 minutes from my work. We car pool which puts me at work 1-2 hours before my start time and up to 2 hours after I am off of work. Our children go to school near my husband's work - so if they have sports or whatever it is even longer – which means I have less time to go “searching” for a buck.

I have my goats as a hobby that I love. I have the veterinary background to handle most situations and feel that I do good with caring for the animals, although I am always learning from others on the boards as I am a constant learner in life.

However, I am not made of money, and my offspring are to help me offset the cost of the feed and care for them and for the horses and sheep (which we eat).

I have my goats for milk and pets mainly, as we trade for farm fresh eggs and other things for the milk, along with cooking with it for ourselves. Yes I have registered goats, but that is because for what I paid for them, I could not pass it up as I would have paid that for an unregistered. My minis sell a lot faster and easier then my larger goats, so this is where most of the cash is coming in.

Do I register everything born - NO. I only register what is worthy. I have not sold one goat as being registered - either because the owner didn't care about registration or they were not of the "quality" that I wanted my name on.

I do plan on one day showing, but I don't want to make an idiot out of myself either and want a goat that is "worthy" of showing. But, to get to that place, I have to have the genetics, the breeding quality, and the offspring to do that. I can not do that in the first year unless I pay top dollar along with shipping to start with the best. So I have to do what I can do with what I have available at the moment. 

Although there are some beautiful bucks out there - it is not in my budget for when all is said and done to pay 500 and up for a buck. My family must come first. I just can't do it at this time. So I have to look at what is in the budget, what I am trying to improve, and work from there, as I imagine a lot of you had to do with your herd. 

In all honesty, at this point, I feel very insufficient since I don't want to purchase a $500.00 buck. I feel like I am a "poor" breeder or looked down upon because of this - and I don't think it was ever meant that way - but in honesty that is how I am feeling. 

I think that what I am doing by searching, looking hard, and knowing what I want and what I can comfortable do, I will find what I am looking for that will help in at least one area that I am trying to improve. But please remember that not everyone has the ability to spend hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on a buck. Whether that be the purchase price alone or the gas, shipping, and time to pick up the buck – that must be figured in also.

Just voicing my feelings.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Just a thought Allison but have you looked into Camanna? She has some nice quality animals for very good prices (imo). You could either get the kid shipped to you or maybe Anna knows of someone heading up your way. . . . She has a lot of "connections".  Just a little thought. 

I was thinking of getting a buckling from her in the spring and if you would like one and the timing is right, I could bring him up here to Portland and meet you here.

No one is trying to make you feel bad about your herd and goals for your herd. I think you are doing quite well for what you have!  :hug:


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh Allison :hug: I assure you no one was even remotly thinking that. Each one of my bucks I currently own were $400 or less, and one was given to me! Showing is what I love to do, so I go for show quality. But I certainly did not start there, my herd has evolved and continues to do so (sorry for rambling lol) 

This buck sounds like a great option for you, and has nice lines to boot! I say if you feel that he would benefit your herd then go for it! Olivia brought up another good idea, Anna has some lovely goats and beautiful colors too!


:hug:


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