# Probably Getting Two New Does! - Need Advice



## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, I'm going "goatie shopping" next week. We're going to look at two little doelings born in early-September. I'm not sure that we will get them (do not need anymore goats) but their bloodlines are not too common in this area. Pics were not good at all so I have to just go and check 'em out! 

I'll just copy and paste their pedigrees from the email they sent me. Parents came from tested CAE negative herds - have not been tested by their current owner yet. He only purchased from clean herds.

*Harmony Hills LI B'Udder Cup* (gold; white on head)

SIRE: Dill's Lucky's Image *S --------- DAM: Rosasharn Magnolia
SS: Dill's Derringer *S ---------- DS: Rosasharn TL Summer Sol *S
SD: MCH Gay-Mor's Kitty's Meow 2*D 'E' ----------- DD: ARMCH Rosasharn UMT Sassafras 5*D 'E'

*Harmony Hills LI Mischevious* (chamoisee)

SIRE: Dill's Lucky's Image *S ----------- DAM: Rosasharn Naughty Lily

SS: Dill's Derringer *S ---------- DS: Rosasharn TL Summer Sol *S
SD: MCH Gay-Mor's Kitty's Meow 2*D 'E' ---------- DD: ARMCH Rosasharn Tom's Lot-a-Lilly 3*D 'E'

Here is Lot-a-Lilly's udder photo: http://www.rosasharnfarm.com/c-images/c ... y-rear.jpg

And Sassafras' udder and body pic: http://www.rosasharnfarm.com/c-images/c ... s-side.jpg and http://www.rosasharnfarm.com/c-images/c ... s-rear.JPG

What do ya think??  I'll try to get the pics on here but they're not very good ones. B'Udder Cup looks the nicest to me but her ear set looked a little funny (I think it was just a bad photo though).


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## Amos (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: "Goat Shopping" *

Not that i know much about ND's, but they sound great!
I might get to do some goat shopping later today =] ray:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: "Goat Shopping" *

Well, I think I'll be going on Thursday to look at them. They won't be ready to leave yet as he said he would tattoo and register them before leaving, which is great! I was thinking we'd have to do that. . . .

I accidently deleted the email with the pics but will see if I can take some on Thursday. What do you guys think of those bloodlines? I don't know a whole lot about them besides what is on the Rosasharn website. I can't find any other daughters of Summer Sol with udder pics. . . .  I can't even find pics of him, maybe he passed away??


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: "Goatie Shopping"  Probably Getting Two New Does!*

I do believe Summer Sol is still alive and living in the Wranglerboro Farm on the East Coast. I am adding a picture I have of him for reference for you... (courtesy of Anne Petersen)









You may want to contact his current owner and ask them if they have any udder shots of his daughters, they may. And I know I have come across many photo's of Summer Sol's offspring in the past. Just google Rosasharn TL Summer Sol *S and I bet you find some. :wink:

Best of luck on your "Goatie Shopping"! :thumbup:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: "Goatie Shopping"  Probably Getting Two New Does!*

I knew I recognized the name! I havent seen him first hand but I have seen him on their website. I dont believe they show.

here is the website
http://wrangleborofarm.com/


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: "Goatie Shopping"  Probably Getting Two New Does!*

Thanks Laurel Haven and Stacey for posting the pic and link. . . . 

Well, I went to look at them today. They are really cute and sweet. . . . but soooo small! They are tiny little ones, our babies mature pretty quickly, I guess. I did notice that they had a little bit of runny poo so I suspected cocci. He said they were treated for cocci but I think they need another round, also another deworming. He's new with goats so I don't think he's really experienced.

These does will likely carry the Rosasharn herdname (complicated situation). So, that's pretty cool.  I'm just worried about them being small and worried that they will mature normally. They will be 3 months old the 2nd week in December and to me they look like month-old kids. What do you guys think I should do?? Get them and aggressively treat for coccidia and other parasites? I'd get a fecal done first. 
What would you do? Bloodlines like these are not common at all in our area and they are a steal (only $200 each).

Oh, I LOVE their dam's udders!!!  They are really nice - love their overall conformation too. Their dam's are actually probably for sale but I don't have $1300 to spend on 2 does now. . . . 

I would appreciate your thoughts.  Thanks!


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: "Goatie Shopping"  Probably Getting Two New Does!*

Geesh, that's a tough decision. I really don't like the idea that they may be stunted. But the bloodlines sound awesome! How do you like their conformation? Do you have pics of them?? I have seen where some bloodlines don't have good growing kids and it's hard for them to compare to their sire and dam because they just didn't mature how they should. I don't know, sounds like you may have to take a gamble on them if you buy them. Pics might give us a better idea.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: "Goatie Shopping"  Probably Getting Two New Does!*

i had a stunted kid from cocci.. and though is depends on the lines.. sometimes with "good lovin" you can get them to grow.. and you'll prolly have to wait longer to breed them


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

No pics. I brought my camera specifically to take pictures a forgot it in the car! :doh: 

Their conformation is really nice, very dairy - I was most impressed w/ their dams. Their dams were just beautiful!! They were not being milked or anything, just nursing their babies and started weaning them. Awesome foreudders, teats pointed straight down and were of nice size, good capacity (was much more when they first freshened). 

Their brother was for sure stunted from the cocci, he was quite a bit smaller than them. But these doe kids were pretty small for their age (our babies are about twice that size at their age). So, yeah, it's a gamble - I have to think about it some more. The cool thing is that these bloodlines are far from common in this area. . . .


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i would say you could do a fecal and see if they have worms right now?


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally wouldn't buy anything that was stunted from cocci...JMO.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

if you have a pen to keep them separate I would get the two doelings and run a fecal and then treat. 

I have had cocci here and my doeling was at deaths door before someone told me what cocci was and how to treat. She is now quite happy and I was looking at her today and she is quite the big girl! THis girl I am talking about is Mia. 

Then I had Jitterbug who came to me looking like she must have had cocci because she was a tiny thing but nope talked to her breeder and she has been a happy little bugger healthy and all. Must be from slow growing lines (she is also a triplet) She did get cocci while here but I treated her and she is growing -- just not a fast grower. 

As to the brother being small --- you cant say he will be stunted or is stunted unless you know that he was the same size as them at birth. Sometimes there is a tiny triplet amongst the group.


Its up to you...... but if you are willing to work the battle to get them fully healthy then go for it. Are they healthy looking otherwise?


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

the doe we had.. i did b12 and selenium and copper and she grew with that and lovin.. but not every goat is the same


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I could ask and see if he will run a fecal. He has a great goat vet that's nearby. 

Yeah, I could keep them separated for a while. . . . I would keep them home with me for at least a month.

Only reason I said he was stunted is that the breeder told me he was. . . . he's definitely smaller than the does. 

Yeah, they are pretty healthy looking, active, nursing well, etc. . . .


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

Well now you sure do have a tough decision to make don't you. You will just have to weigh out the pluses and negatives, that is how I usually come up mith many of my decisions on whether I should or should not purchase a paticular goat.

*Price* is very good, hard to buy quality goats at those prices these days +

*Bloodlines* are very good, and you said you like the looks of the dams +

*Health*, This would include whole herd testing, which they have not done but the goats do come from herds that do. Yet with them having cocci not good as that may stunt their growth and bring up other health problems later on, and sounds as though they are not being treated for it properly, it has to be taken care of fast before real damage is done, so a -

*Conformation* can't do this one as I never saw the goats...

*Registration* It does sounds as though there may be registration problems "These does will likely carry the Rosasharn herdname (complicated situation)." ... Don't count on Anne Petersen of Rosasharn to put her name on a breeding she didn't personally have a hand in. I doubt that would ever happen. So just be sure all paperwork is finalized before you commit to getting them. So a -

*Travel/Transport* You sound rather close as you went to visit so this wouldn't be a problem so it's a +

This would not be an easy decision at all, Best of luck with whatever you choose. And if you do get them I can't wait to see their pictures!


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks for that Tina, that helps a lot! 

Well, I'll just explain why they may carry the Rosasharn farm name. Anne was selling quite a few of her mature animals and this person had been in contact with her requesting only mature animals. So, because she needed to downsize real quick, she let him ship the mature does and pay her off in payments. She sent the papers but not a transfer slip, so the dams are still in her name. 

I plan to email Anne and make sure all of this is true before committing to anything. . . . he did not come off as a dishonest person at all. And I think the fact the kids were not the healthiest was just a "newbie" thing. I know our set-up and health care of our goats when we first started is not as great as it is now. Live and learn, I guess. 

Thanks everyone! I'm still thinking about it so if you have any other comments, share them please.


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks for that Tina, that really helps!! 

Well, I'll just explain briefly why they may carry the Rosasharn farm name. Anne was selling quite a few of her mature animals and this particular person wanted mature animals but did not have all the money at one time. So, Anne just let him ship these mature does and pay her off in payments. She sent the papers but not the transfer slips. Make sense? 

I plan to email Anne and make sure this is all true. He did not come off as a dishonest person at all. I think the care of the babies was lacking just because he's a "newbie". I know our set-up and health care of our goats when we first started is not as great as it is now. Live and learn, I guess. 

Thanks so much for your comments everyone! I'm still thinking about getting them so if you have any other thoughts, please share!


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

No problem. :wink: I have used this system many of times in deciding myself. (Health, Bloodlines, Conformation, Price, Registration, Transport). They are the major things I consider when making a purchase.

And I do understand with them just starting out... afterall most life experiences are learned from trial and error. :wink:



> Well, I'll just explain why they may carry the Rosasharn farm name. Anne was selling quite a few of her mature animals and this person had been in contact with her requesting only mature animals. So, because she needed to downsize real quick, she let him ship the mature does and pay her off in payments. She sent the papers but not a transfer slip, so the dams are still in her name.


I would check this out very carefully as technically the goats are not his without that transfer slip. And you would need a breeding memo signed by Anne before those kids could be registerable. And I still do not see her putting her name on a breeding she did not personally do. I may be wrong, but I honestly don't see it happening. More than likely if the does are not paid for, yet were bred by this new owner... they kids will wind up being non registerable. I would hate to see you buy kids that you can not get registered. So please check into this further before you put any money into them. You said about calling Anne yourself... yes you should do that. :thumbup:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks again. I decided for sure not to get them. I just don't want to take on that responsibility right now and right before winter. So, we'll just wait for our babies to be born! 

He mentioned that he may be selling the two dams for Anne. They would be $650 each. I know a lot of you wouldn't flinch about spending that much but I kinda do, simply because no goats get sold for that price in our area. . . . just something I am not used to. But, if I happened to get that kind of money, I would get those two dams in a heartbeat, they are so gorgeous!!!  :drool:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, I emailed him and said it wouldn't work out to get them. . . . explained why, mostly because of the paperwork issue and the fact that they are so small (to me anyways). Our month-old babies are their size. And none of our goats are over-height.

He said that Anne didn't mind having her name on these breedings because she knew that the sire was a great goat from really awesome lines, soooo. . . . . I am so torn!! :hair: I'm thinking of asking him if he will take a fecal sample in (I'll pay for it) and treat them for any bugs they might have. I also want the registration papers in hand when I pick them up (if I even get them). It's just so hard for me to say no to these goats because of those genetics, but I don't want to make the wrong decision and end up regretting it. Okay, I'll stop typing now. . . .


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry .....you cannot get the goats.....


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

with the economy the way it is, chances are no one else is biting on the goats. Tell him your stipulations for the purchase of them and see what he does. If he is willing to work out the paper work issue and get Anne to "sign off" on their breeding as well as take the time to make sure they are healthy or have a diagnosis then go for it. If not, you will only have a headach on your hands as you try to deal with the mess.


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

> He said that Anne didn't mind having her name on these breedings because she knew that the sire was a great goat from really awesome lines, soooo. . . . . I am so torn!!


Well now I guess I was wrong... I would have bet anything the opposite. But that is great news for you. If you can buy 2 Rosasharn does for that low of price you have some serious considering to do. That would have me thinking about taking the chance too. Just make sure that the registrations are clear and free and that Anne will sign off on them. And make sure they are healthy enough to buy, I would insist he find the cause of the diarrhea and treat for it. And if it is Cocci hopefully it is being taken care of before serious damage is done. There is a possibility that it has stunted their growth beyond repair, but it could be a quick fix and with some real TLC they could grow to be nice does. It is a chance you will have to be willing to take.

I don't envy you with the hard choice you must make. But keep me updated either way, I would love to hear what you decide. :wink:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I emailed him and asked him if he'd take a fecal sample to the vet and treat them for any parasites they may have. He said that would be fine! He's really nice. He said he really wanted us to buy them, so we'll see how it all goes.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds very promising -- is there a way you can talk to Anne to be sure he is on target with what he is saying?


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## jordan (Nov 22, 2007)

capriola-nd said:


> Thanks for that Tina, that really helps!!
> 
> Well, I'll just explain briefly why they may carry the Rosasharn farm name. Anne was selling quite a few of her mature animals and this particular person wanted mature animals but did not have all the money at one time. So, Anne just let him ship these mature does and pay her off in payments. She sent the papers but not the transfer slips. Make sense?
> 
> ...


I would really, really check with Anne before you do anything. 
I've heard of breeders who will take payments, but none that will send the registration papers until the goat is paid in full (even if they've held the transfer). I cannot imagine her signing off on a breeding that a "newbie" has done and putting her name on it or asking a newbie to sell her goats for her... It just does not sound like something a breeder of her repuation would do.
JMHO
Lois
http://www.fallcreekfarm.net


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## Laurel_Haven (Oct 20, 2007)

> It just does not sound like something a breeder of her repuation would do.


That is exactly what I was thinking... and am quite surprised to hear that she may. At least that is what that person is telling her, that Anne will. I would be shocked if she did. As I would never put my name down as the breeder if I didn't personally do the breeding. And I would never judge the buck being used by his pedigree alone. I would need to see that buck and get my hands on him first.
But hey if Anne does you can't blame her for wanting to get two Rosasharn does at that price.

But yes, please contact Anne and ask her about the this first. it would be nice to trust what others are telling you. But no matter how nice he is, you jsut can't do that these days. Too many people are deceitful, wish it wasn't that way but it is. So check with Anne.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok I could be wrong but I thought Olivia said the does were sold bred so that would mean that Anne did the breeding :shrug: :scratch: 

I probably missed something though :shades:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, from what he told me, he and Anne have been talking for quite some time, probably nearly two years. I do plan to talk to Anne myself, just to be sure though.

This person did do the breeding himself. He bred these two does to a buck from Dill's. I saw the buck myself and he is very nice. I understand what you guys are saying regarding this though. I thought the whole paperwork thing was interesting myself. So, I better just email Anne real quick and ask her myself if all of this is true. 

This person is a "newbie" but he did start out with some excellent stock - he didn't just buy whatever was close but had animals shipped in. . . . and I'm sure spent a fortune on them.


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## Crissa (Oct 7, 2007)

Just read this thread. I sure hope it all works out and he's being honest with you! (by the way I love Dill's goats! Wonder why. lol) Let us know how it goes!


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