# Ethics question?



## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

I am new to this forum, though I have lurked here for years  I have a buyer, and an ethics question I was hoping to get input on from other breeders. Apologies if this is in the wrong section, I didnt find one obvious for this type of thing.

I breed Nubians for show, I also keep 2 nice quality saanens for my personal milking pleasure and to help with the bottle babies. I freshen the saanens with my nubian buck, since 2 does doesnt justify the additional buck, and the kids get sold at reduced price for family milkers. Last year I had a buyer, new to goats, purchase one of the crossbred doelings, after deciding the registered purebred kids were out of her price range. I sold her the doeling for $75 and let her know that I personally don't register experimentals, and her price was for a good family milk goat, out of good stock, but unregistered. I did give her pedigree copies for mom and dad, so she could keep for her records (dumb now, I know)

She freshened her doe, and now wants to register her, so she can register the kid as they are going for sale. She contacted me for the sire registration number, as she found the dams. I told her I didnt sell her a registered goat, and she would need me to fill out an application with transfer, and sign it, and I wasn't interested in my herd name being on a crossbred. She called ADGA, they supposedly advised her she only needed his reg number and she could go experimental without my help. (not true I hope?)

The question is, am I just being an *ss? I know it's no real skin off my back to do it for her, but I really did pay a lot for my genetics, and I dont think the doeling really represents what I want people to see as far as what I produce....it's got airplane ears  cute, but still....not a good saanen, or nubian... It's not so much a money thing, but it irks me that she opted to not buy the registered stock, and now wants to register her discount doe like I owe it to her because it's possible. Any thoughts on this breeders? what would you do?
Thank you!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I personally don't think so. You sold her as unregistered and made it clear she will not be registered. If she wanted registered stock, she should have bought it in the first place.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I would do what you feel is the best for your herd. Now I look at Experimentals a little different than some because much of my pack goat breeding is from registered experimentals. The crosses increase vigor and size making stronger pack goats. That said, she cannot register her doe with ADGA without you filling out the paper work for her and if she bought an unregistered doe then she is just out of luck in my opinion.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I don't think you did anything wrong you were upfront with her and it was her choice. However, and I will probably be unpopular for saying this but this is one thing I do hate. I feel like if your goat is out of registered parents you should be able to register it for a fee, whether the original breeder thinks it is okay or not. Whether it is quality or not. It is a purebred animal. I feel like people have eyes and if they don't like that animal they don't have to buy it or it's offspring, and I feel like an experimental is just that, an experiment, they aren't necessarily going to be exemplary. 
I guess to avoid it, you could tell people they are grade and not tell them what their parents were at all.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to register experimentals. It is your name and you definitely have the right to decide what your name goes on.

With how strict ADGA is about registering, I don't know how the woman can register her goats without a bill of sale and a signed registration form from you. I have a registered experimental and I had to have the same registration form filled out and signed properly from the breeder as my purebred girl.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, in some ways it is harder to register experimentals because everything on the paperwork must be perfect.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Heck no you're not being unreasonable. I would explain nicely that you sold her a non registered doe. MAYBE give her the opportunity to purchase papers for the doe from you...but you don't have to do that...only if you want. Drives me nuts to have someone purchase a pet quality or non registered type goat for cheap and expect it to be a great breeding doe, milker, etc. or in this case, feel like they're obligated to get paperwork from you. I don't think so. You're absolutely right and don't feel like you have to give this person anything. I personally wouldn't.


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## Stacykins (Mar 27, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> With how strict ADGA is about registering, I don't know how the woman can register her goats without a bill of sale and a signed registration form from you.


I don't think she _can_ register that doe without a bill of sale and a breeder signature on the registration application.

Now, it is very possible that if she has a copy of your signature in some form, she has/can forge it.

Like, if you gave her a bill of sale with your signature, but obviously not the registration application because she was not to register the goat. She can either physically try and forge it (if she is good), or scan the document, cut out the signature, and very carefully paste it into the right spot on a registration application after cleaning it up (removing extra lines, signs of it being cut, etc.). If she is savvy with a computer, she can likely manage that. *If you suspect any form of forgery is the case, you need to contact the ADGA promptly.*



Juperlative said:


> She freshened her doe, and now wants to register her, so she can register the kid as they are going for sale. She contacted me for the sire registration number, as she found the dams. I told her I didnt sell her a registered goat, and she would need me to fill out an application with transfer, and sign it, and I wasn't interested in my herd name being on a crossbred. She called ADGA, they supposedly advised her she only needed his reg number and she could go experimental without my help. (not true I hope?)


I definitely think she is lying to you about what the ADGA supposedly said, likely just to try and scare you into doing what she wants. Like you said, she'd need that signed paperwork from you, which you obviously aren't obligated to provide. Unless she forged your signature on the paperwork, and just needs the final piece of information (the sire's reg number) to make it happen.



NubianFan said:


> I don't think you did anything wrong you were upfront with her and it was her choice. However, and I will probably be unpopular for saying this but this is one thing I do hate. I feel like if your goat is out of registered parents you should be able to register it for a fee, whether the original breeder thinks it is okay or not. Whether it is quality or not. It is a purebred animal. I feel like people have eyes and if they don't like that animal they don't have to buy it or it's offspring, and I feel like an experimental is just that, an experiment, they aren't necessarily going to be exemplary.
> I guess to avoid it, you could tell people they are grade and not tell them what their parents were at all.


I disagree with you because there ARE reasons for registration paperwork to be held for certain offspring. Even if the parents are registered purebreds, there are problems that can crop up with kids that make it *irresponsible to register them* (thus allowing them to continue to spread problems among the registered pool of goats).

An examples of this would be a doe with a spur teat, extra teat, or extra orifices. Some other things that come to mind are over or underbites, a pendulous udder, and tube ears. Obviously there is a huge list of defects that result in a goat that should NOT be registered.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Stacykins said:


> I disagree with you because there ARE reasons for registration paperwork to be held for certain offspring. Even if the parents are registered purebreds, there are problems that can crop up with kids that make it *irresponsible to register them* (thus allowing them to continue to spread problems among the registered pool of goats).
> 
> An examples of this would be a doe with a spur teat, extra teat, or extra orifices. Some other things that come to mind are over or underbites, a pendulous udder, and tube ears. Obviously there is a huge list of defects that result in a goat that should NOT be registered.


We can agree to disagree because I am not here to argue with anyone. I meant IF the animal meets registry requirements, not if it had unregisterable defects. Airplane ears in an experimental is cosmetic, not something that causes issues, like say a tube ear. If the breed registry allows airplane ears on experimentals, I don't feel like it should be an issue. But again that is my opinion and I expected it to be unpopular.


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

Thank you so much folks! I try to do really right by buyers, tech support is always free, good advice in regards to herd planning, I try to get a feel for newbies and where they want to go with goats, so they will be happy with what they got from me, because it suits their needs. I got a snarky feel from this lady, so I showed her the nice show stock expecting her to want the best. At the time, she insisted she wanted a good homestead goat, and pedigree didn't matter, just milk for her family. This doeling was going to fit that bill perfectly, and she was just a byproduct for me, so I gave her an awesome goat at a good price. She was unhappy from the start with her purchase, and I get the feeling she was just going to be unhappy regardless of what I did. she didnt want to sell her back to me for her purchase price. Maybe if she had been a better buyer, I would have considered it. I would rather not sell something, than have someone unhappy, or not value what I sold them....this was a bad deal all the way around. I'll be keeping my eye on the kind of buyer I cater to more closely from now on! If I catch a whiff of crazy, they can go ruin someone else's good name LOL.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I would call that a verbal contract/agreement that the goat would not be registered, in legal terms if she were to register it you would be able to say that the contract was breeched and ask a differance of price to be paid....I would not suggest that, but that is probably the law POV, that being said, no I would not give it to her, she made an agreement for a family milker. 

My mother is a paralegal, and bred irish wolfhounds. So we say some of that type of stuff (can we get it as a pet, then later they are breeding)

Imagine it is a wether for a wether price and they have a vet reverse it( for discussion sake) they would have a pedegree buck for wether price!

Yes I know not possible!!!


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh, I get it. The buyer is the one causing the issue. If someone like me, with years of goat experience and a well planned reason for wanting a registered experimental contacted you. You would be more willing to register the goat?


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

I actually asked her what her reasoning for wanting to register her was when she first inquired about it. If she wanted to go on milk test and have ADGA keep track of her production records, get her her milk star, (she would actually be an 8 star milker after earning hers) that would be understandable...and I would have accommodated. She made the mistake of saying she was wanting to register her to improve the breed (what?) and put her herdname on the offspring she wants to sell. That didn't make any sense to me. She just wants a registered goat, which I get totally. I advised her when she purchased that if she wanted to create a profitable herd, she should go with registered, as kid sales are dramatically increased, and you can keep track of documented dairy quality thru ADGA. The breeders I purchased from, get good prices because they are willing to put the money into LA and milk test, showing, and well, they deserve it. I showed this does dam, got GC Saanen, and paid out the teeth for her. I personally think that if you want to cash in on a breeders good name, you should pay them for it, I do. She didnt pay for the privilege to use my genetics, that I care dearly about....and I dont breed crossbred goats and slap papers on them so I can sell them for more money, I'm aiming for reputable breeder of purebred goats that milk well and do well in the show ring, not saanubians-R-us LOL. Maybe if I had gotten any of my registered stock for $75 I would feel differently, but I paid well over $500 for each one, sometimes much, much more. She has a VERY nice CROSSBRED goat, I advised her to milk it, keep milk records if she wanted to improve her value to buyers, and be happy!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

I think you are over thinking it, I know nothing about milking showing or purebred , but all you need to know is the agreement you had. That's the deal, you upheld your end and she would like to re-negotiate the deal, but both have to be willing to re-neg. 

If I sold my truck without an engine and took the engine for another truck, the buyer could not later ask me for an engine!

But you love your goats and your purpose for breeding(and you should) so you are thinking all the other stuff too. From the outside it is very simple. Deal is the deal.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't get my goats for $75 either. I paid $250 for my registered experimentals and even more for my American Alpines. 

I don't sell bucks, only pack wethers with wether certification papers and if people want registration papers for doelings then indeed, they are going to pay for them. Around here kids need those papers to show in 4-H and FFA. 

Kind of sounds like this gal doesn't know what she wants and thinks you can actually make money with goats. Not likely.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. You sold a GRADE goat, without papers. I think this person probably either wants to sell the doe for a bunch of money (as a registered experimental) or has already told people that the kids from her are 75% Saanen (or Nubian, whichever direction she went) and may even already have them sold and doesn't want to lose out on a quick sale. 

If I were you, I would call ADGA tell them what is going on and that if any applications come in bearing your bucks name for a 50% doe that is the age of this doe that it was not done by you and that you as a purebred Nubian breeder do not want your buck to have 50% kids. I would also make sure you have a signature form on record so they can compare any signatures. Unless she forges your signature she can not register the doe because you as the breeder (and owner of the buck) would have to sign the application that you were the breeder and you sold the kid to her. This may sound harsh, but as a breeder you are entitled to your rights and you are entitled to only register kids from your stock that you want registered. For example, I typically don't sell registered buck kids from my FF unless they are really nice. Even though the people know that their kid is from registered parents, they are getting a grade goat. I don't want my herd name tacked onto a buck that may throw less than exemplary daughters, especially since typically people who can't or won't pay much for a buck typically don't pay much for their does and typically (not always) don't have very good quality does. (and I am talking about $50-$100 goats) It might not sound important to some people but when they take those not so good does to a show, they have not so good udders/conformation and people look and see who the sire was then they will attribute the poor quality to my herd. Not something I want my herd associated with.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

You mean you can't make money on goats!!!! ( sarcasm implied )


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm not saying recorded grades or experimental goats are in any way inferior, and I'm snooty across the board on goats, I have percentage boers, and some unregistered dairy I like to use, I've even produced a few I wouldn't put my name on, and I'm up front about that. Sometimes the genetics don't line up like I would like, and doelings aren't as good as mom, if it's not an improvement, I sell it as a milker, because they are good dairy goats. NOTHING leaves here with it's jewels that isn't something I would use, and nothing I'm not proud to see in the show ring goes out with my name on it. Not only for me, but out of respect to the breeders who's names helped make my goats. I register the best, eat the rest (boys)..... unless it's an otherwise decent doeling that doesnt need to be perfect for a family that cant afford the big production records, but needs lots of milk. This doeling is a high quality dairy animal, far better than the $75 I charged her...her dam milks 15+ lbs, the sires dam is still lactating after 4 years since his birth. She got a deal specifically because I didn't want to stand behind it with my herd name, specifically because it is a crossbred. 

I wish I could make the buyer understand that, instead she just thinks I dont stand behind my goats, because I'm openly saying I'm not willing to put my name on that goat...

Which is true, but the context is different. It does sound like that, but it doesn't feel unethical.....and honestly, I just don't like her very much at this point for putting me in this position. It really did make me want to check in with outside perspectives. Hence why I asked you fine people  
Thank you very much for the perspective, I've washed my hands of it, and I guess I'll have to live with an unhappy client out there.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Yes, but remember, no matter what you make sell or produce, you cannot please everyone 100% of the time. I think you pleased a client that wanted a family milker just fine, but the client either changed the needs she had or was not totally upfront. Either way not on your hands. I say good job, and if you live life with he conviction that it sounds like you have you will be prosperous and happy!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

No, I don't think you are wrong either. Your herd name, your breeding, your reputation, you sold the doe as a grade. Period, end of argument.

If that woman wants papers, she can record it NOA with ADGA. With her farm name.

I have sold goats before as a commercial or family milker, no registration papers or application because the goat was not up to my herds standard for type. Excellent production prospect, but not good enough to walk around with my herd name on it.

Stand your ground and never do business with her again!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

My 2 cents, as someone with unregistered/crossbred animals - I would give her the opportunity to purchase the papers, and see if you can register the goat(s) without your herd name (using "The" as the prefix.) Then she has the opportunity to show her animals and breed them up to Americans, but without reflecting on your herd.


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

I don't think was said...

She CAN record the goat with ADGA - she just has to do it Native on Appearance. This means she can do all the milk test records or LA or shows she would like, but your herd name doesn't go on it.

This would make her a grade.

Alternatively, she can just registered the kid (which will be 1/2 of whatever the buck is) and start there. I don't think you are under any obligation to provide papers for her, and she cannot use your herd name without your signature.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

First off I totally agree with your stance. You clearly sold the animal as non registered and thats the way its going to be. Period. There are strict ADGA rules against this sort of thing. Did you happen to tattoo the doe?

The bad news is, anyone can register any dairy goat as experimental through ADGA. But as far as I understand it, even with the pedigree info, it cant be used in relation to her animal unless you gave her a signed application. Now what I would do is contact ADGA and explain to the situation and see what they have to say. It may take several calls as most of the ladies in the ADGA office are complete and total morons. Also explain that you sold the doe as unregistered (without papers). 

I will bring this post to the attention of my other half as she is a ADGA paperwork expert and can tell you exactly what can and cant happen.

On a side note: We had something like this happen before in that a buck kid sold to young to be banded was later used to breed some does and the lady came back wanting papers on him. Turned out she was selling his "buck services" affiliating the service with our herd name and when it came time for these people to register their animals, they couldnt. The lady thought she could just send in the service memos and skate by. So once she learned she couldnt and everyone that wanted their animals registered got pissed, she came back to us wanting to buy the buck kids registeration papers. The funny thing is we had already gotten word of what was going on and told the lady she could buy the registration paper for 1000.00. Man was she mad!  But she bought a future weed eater (or so she said thats what she wanted) and that was exactly what she got. We maybe keep 1 buckling as a breeding buck per year. And they dont just end up anywhere. This year we are keeping litter mate twin brothers. One who we will use along with close friend of ours and the other we will market. 

It doesnt matter what anyone else thinks or believes what should happen with your registered pedigree. Its yours, you put the time, money and effort into it. Its yours and you choose where it goes.


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

*Ethics question*

For Heaven's sake!
Stick to your guns!
You reduced your price for a mixed unregistered goat!
Why on earth should you change your terms???
It sounds perfectly fair to me.

If the goat has turned out to be wonderful, then good for her!

:kidblue:


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I don't think an Experimental can be registered NOA since she wouldn't conform to any specific breed.... At least that's how I took that the NOA program works, the goat must conform to a specific breed, not a mix.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I agree with what everyone else has said, she knew at the time she was buying an unregistered doeling. The price was more than reasonable so in no way should you feel bad. 
I bought a Nubian doe several years ago from the sale barn. I was there when the breeder unloaded her and several other doelings and I knew she was only selling them at the sale barn because fair time had passed and she didn't want to feed them over the winter. At our sale barn milk goats go for 200 or more so she gets good prices. Anyway, I bought a couple doelings for 75 each which I felt was a good deal. Afterwards I found that both girls were tattooed so they obviously could be registered. I've never contacted the breeder asking for papers though because you get what you pay for. At $75 I got an awesome milker that has paid for herself over and over again by having twins or triplets every year.
If your buyer wants to raise a registered herd she can always sell the doe she bought from you and buy some registered does, but instead it sounds like she wants something for nothing.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Ok here is the low down. Anyone can register any dairy goat as a NO PEDIGREE GRADE. She could only register the Doe as Native on Appearance (NOA). And depending upon the look of the doe you sold her, its not likely she looks like a full Nubian or full Saanen. This would allow her to register the doe but with no documentation on the Doe or the Sire. And at best she could register the kid she just got with only documentation on the Sire of the kid she is trying to sale. So No, your herd name will have no connection to her registration of the doe or the kid outta the doe. If they lady does try to so so without your ok, and or service memo, ADGA would take action.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

She's got to find an ADGA member that will sign off an airplane eared doe as looking purebred whatever though. Even as an Experimental breeder, I wouldn't do it. I mean would you sign off on Genie?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Agreed - as far as I know in order to be Registered Grade without either parent they have to conform to a breed standard, and Experimental is only for registered parents of different breeds (excluding Nigerian Dwarf.) I think her only option would be Native on Performance, in which case they don't care about her breeding if she can milk equivalent to a purebred. Not sure of the exact requirements though.


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

goathiker said:


> She's got to find an ADGA member that will sign off an airplane eared doe as looking purebred whatever though. Even as an Experimental breeder, I wouldn't do it. I mean would you sign off on Genie?


No, but she's very cute


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## Cadence (Jul 20, 2013)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Agreed - as far as I know in order to be Registered Grade without either parent they have to conform to a breed standard, and Experimental is only for registered parents of different breeds (excluding Nigerian Dwarf.) I think her only option would be Native on Performance, in which case they don't care about her breeding if she can milk equivalent to a purebred. Not sure of the exact requirements though.


Native on Performance is currently suspended - they aren't allowing does to be registered this way right now.



> "Production Testing: Native on Performance registrations will be suspended until the Production Testing Committee makes a future recommendation to the Board. Passed."


http://www.adga.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=562:2012bodaction&Itemid=105

If she can get someone to sign off - she can go NOA. Otherwise the kid from this year is 50% nubian with a registered sire.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Ah. I'd only glanced at NoP when looking up NoA a while back.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I would charge her an extra $100.00 once you get that then sign the paperwork. I paid $75.00 for my Nubian doe, however I will have to pay $100.00 more to get her registered.... That way two things will occur she will understand registered goats cost more, and 2 you will get some extra $ for the trouble... Personally that's what I would do.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You will have to tell us what the end result will be. I am now curious to see if she will be able to somehow actually register the goats without the proper forms signed by you.


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

The buyer has been informed I will not be assisting her to register the doeling.

Her initial contact to me regarding papers was to demand the sire registration number so she could register the doe. I gently explained she would need the proper paperwork and her reply was; 

"I dont know why you wont just give me his number, ADGA said I could register her experimental and there is nothing wrong with that, if you said the buck is registered and he's not, just be honest with me, if you dont know who the dad is, again, just be honest with me."

Well, needless to say, that didnt inspire me to make an exception to my personal beliefs on registering 50% kids for non-valid reasons. As I've said, if there was a good reason to document that kid, and put my name on it, I might have. If she wanted to go on test, or show experimental, or even start a small dairy herd and keep records, that would have been something to believe in. She had this doe sold, and the sale was dependent on registration papers, as she told the buyer she was registrable. 
I'm certainly not interested in helping her sell the doe for increased value when I chose not to do so, in the best interest of my herdname.

After confirming forgery would have to be involved to register her, I gave her the number she wanted, and let her know it wouldn't help her, and I will be watching his progeny list in case she is inclined to commit fraud.

She could have asked for the favor, she could have asked what I would like to help her get that doe registered. But to question my honesty after displaying a phenomenal amount of entitlement and inconsideration.....well it just didn't sit right with me. 

The worst part is, that this person has one of my goats. I try pretty hard to place my kids with people I believe will value them and give them a good life....knowing there is one out there, being sold, to god knows who, by a person that doesn't value her because she isn't registered...it bothers me. People don't keep goats for whatever reason, and that's totally OK.... Buyers always become "goat friends" of mine, and I usually get to ask that they please make sure the goat gets a good placement. Most often, I know someone who needs what they are selling, or I at least hear back from my buyer that they went to a really perfect place for them.

She'll not be getting anything from me again. Being in good with the goat loop helps too, hopefully she'll be snatched up by someone who knows she came from me, and be properly appreciated. It's a small goat world we live in, I'll hear more about this doe I'm sure 

Thank you all for the insight, input, and ideas, I am so happy to have this site at my fingertips. You all have saved countless lives (goat) with your experience, and the often needed words of comfort from people that understand is priceless. Keep asking, answering and chatting...it helps us all!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I'd be curious to know who she talked to at ADGA. I can see how she would be confused if they told her one thing and you said something else.


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

I am pretty sure she either misrepresented the situation to them when she asked, or she plain old gave me an untruth.... I imagine she told them she had both parents pedigrees, they may have assumed she was the breeder and told her she could register her experimental.... who knows, this lady is difficult and I sense, a little batty.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

That's what I would guess is that she called and asked if a Nubian Saanen cross could be registered if both parents are registered. The person at ADGA would have of course said, yes she can be registered Exmperimental not knowing that she didn't own the parents.

I would just be for sure that you have a signature form on file with ADGA (so signatures can be compared if she does try to forge the papers) and you might even want to shoot them an email and tell them to let you know if any applications come in for that breeding supposedly signed by you.

It will also really be helpful if you have a signature that is hard to forge


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow!!! That isn't cool at all;( 
Hopefully she will be placed in a better home, but to try to sell a goat registered when she clearly isn't...., that's not right...


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## Juperlative (Mar 25, 2014)

UPDATE 
So, I see an ad on craigslist for the doe. I'm really happy there was an udder pic in the ad. OMG it is a nice udder, and that pleases me, because I told her it would be. Nice big handles, great attachment, plenty of capacity... it's a really really nice udder for a first freshener. The ad said she was giving a little under a gallon (sounded disappointed). Her doeling is on her. If she was my friend, I would have told her thats AMAZING and she's going to be a milk monster next year. The doe looks great healthwise, and aside from being a cross...is an admirable dairy animal. The ad was only on for a short while, her asking price was $350. That actually pleases me also, for 2 reasons. A buyer willing to pay $350 for a doe will probably value her as such, and because when I sold this doe as a kid to this woman....I had hoped she would come to understand what a good deal that was for the quality she got. She was new to goats, didn't want to spend a lot, and was referred to me. When the papers issue came up, she seemed to act a bit ripped off. Hopefully the fact she was able to sell her unregistered doe for that kind of money, at least lets her know I didn't. She sold that doe, and kept 2 (rather saggy looking) NOA Nubians....when they freshen, she's going to kick herself in the butt! I see Zulu boobies in their future LOL

Thanks for the advice!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad it all worked out. Hopefully your doe went to a great home. Always nice to see that your breeding choices are good.


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Nice!


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