# Holding down a large strong goat



## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Yesterday I got a HUGE surprise, my sweet almost 4 yr old pulled something new on me, something he had never done before. He reared up and challenged me!!!! I had never seen this behavior from him before. Anyhow, I caught him and after the 2nd try managed to flip him (which I had never done with him before because he's never done anything to deserve flipping). Unfortunately I wasn't able to keep him down except for about two minutes, he struggled so hard I lost control of him. Not good. I had my knees on his chest and hand on his neck holding him down, but I must have been doing something wrong because we are about the same weight. He did respect me more after that, but I need to learn how to keep him down longer.


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

My oldest goat came to me at almost 2 years old and put on quite a show at attempting to challenge by rearing. He out weighted me by 50 lbs. Read Rex's post on "flipping a goat" March 2010. This is under the "training" section on this forum. I found I had to hold tight to both one front and one rear leg on the goat (the same 2 legs I flipped him with). The thin part of the leg just above the dew claw allowed my small hands to completely wrap around the leg and get a good grip. I did not let go to put a hand on his neck / throat and I remained standing upright. He thrashed like only a 2 year old can, holding both feet thrashing was futile. I used my foot to push his face toward the ground in the mud. You will need good balance and firm ground for this maneuver but I did not loose my grip. This worked very well for the both of us. My point was made. 
Good luck, IdahoNancy


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Thank you Idaho Nancy! I will try that next time and I will have to re-visit Rex's post on flipping goats (I had read it quite a while ago, but when it came time to apply it yesterday couldn't remember everything).


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Cuzco outweighs me by a good 75 pounds and I haven't had much trouble keeping him down once I've flipped him (thank goodness it's been a long time since I've had to do it because that dang goat is hard to take down!). The key is to keep ahold of his legs as Nancy suggests. I hold the legs in the same spot, just above the dewclaws, except I hold the _front_ legs. As soon as he's down, I flip Cuzco completely over onto his back so he can't touch the ground with any of his legs. He's much too strong for me to keep him down on his side--if even one leg finds something to grip, he pops up like a jack-in-the-box. Also, I don't like getting beat up by my goat, and if I roll him onto his back and hold both front feet, he can't hit me with his hooves or his head no matter how much he flails. I usually plant a foot on either side of him to balance him on his back more easily and keep him from rolling himself back over.

When he was at his worst, Cuzco kicked his hind legs furiously, but he couldn't do more than harmlessly thump my bottom with the fronts of his hind hooves from that angle. That one terrible day he even snapped up toward my face and hands in an attempt to bite me, but as long as I kept him on is back he couldn't even come close to reaching me, so he eventually gave up. And when I rolled him back over onto his side, he lay there like a dead thing until I was well away from him. Then he ran into his shed and sulked for a while, but he's never had such an attitude attack since. Cuzco learned that day that he _must_ tolerate my fashion choices, even if they include something as outrageous as a hat with horns!


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

Hi Saltlick,
I hold them down with most of my weight through my knee on their neck and holding the further front leg up. That way the other front leg can't reach the ground and the back legs can't get a grip without twisting the whole body over. Since I am pushing quite hard with my knee on their neck, there is no way that they can roll over without lifting me off the ground with their neck. I have done this with a big ram as well who used to charge me, he doesn't try to attack now if we make sure we keep a dominant attitude when around him so that he runs away.
Cheers,
Cazz


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## bentmettle (Jul 29, 2009)

I think I'm "lucky" in that I got most of their attitudes in check while the two boys were younger. They got the flipping more than a few times, as well as sat on until they stopped struggling.

This week, Ka even gave up fighting me on his hoof trimming and just flopped onto the ground.

I can totally understand how a person would be like "Woooah! what was that??!" because I feel like I understand the types of movements they're going to make by the body language. 

For instance, the had always dips slightly before they shake their head. Gotta pay attention around the horns...


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the great advice folks! I already feel better-prepared if I ever need to flip him again. I'm wondering if part of his new attitude is because the 8 month old is starting to stand up for himself and challenge him more, and therefor the big guy thinks he needs to assert himself (with me as well). But I'm not having it! And yes, he will have to learn to tolerate any silly outfits I put on him too (actually, don't have any). I think he also needs to work more. Since I moved them to their new home I've been giving him a break and just going out for short walks and grazing without any load or even the packsaddle. Obviously he's feeling his oats so time to work again!


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## Nanno (Aug 30, 2009)

Oh, Cuzco has never protested any of the styles we've made _him_ wear. But he did have some very strong opinions about a certain ill-advised fashion accessory that Phil and I got from a friend in Buffalo. :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=363

In all honesty though, I've found that using a squirt gun is much easier and is actually more effective than flipping. This may not be the case for everyone's goat, but Cuzco almost seems to welcome a physical challenge even though he loses, but the squirt gun is the trump card. He also can't tell whether I have it or not until I whip it out of my pocket and nail him in the face, so I think by now he just assumes I always have it. I see no reason to change this impression.


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Can't see the hat photo, it doesn't allow me access to it for some reason. Yes, I used to carry a spray bottle, but haven't been doing that lately. I have one I use in the feed storage room that I use when they crowd the door and I tell them 'back'. I agree it is very effective (used it on a stray dog once too!) and been thinking about getting squirt guns and making funny holsters for them


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## Rex (Nov 30, 2008)

Saltlick said:


> Can't see the hat photo, it doesn't allow me access to it for some reason. Yes, I used to carry a spray bottle, but haven't been doing that lately. I have one I use in the feed storage room that I use when they crowd the door and I tell them 'back'. I agree it is very effective (used it on a stray dog once too!) and been thinking about getting squirt guns and making funny holsters for them


For some reason that link to the hat isn't working. You can see it in this forum under the topic "The Hat"


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

Here is the place: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=363&p=6527&hilit=hat#p6527  
Cheers,
Cazz


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Ha! Not sure what my goats would think of that hat


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