# Experience with an insane breeder I need to vent



## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

There is a breeder close to where I live whom is just an acquaintance of mine. She worked with my husband years ago.

Last year I started looking for breeders in my area to find out what my options were for starting to raise goats. We went to her farm to talk to her and see her goats and get some advise.

I want to raise a few goats for fresh milk and make butter cheese, and soap. I also think goats are adorable and they will be spoiled rotten pets more than anything. I Have been raising chickens and want to live as self sufficiently as possible

She seemed nice at the time.

She even told me that if her goats kidded a buckling this year; she would even give me one to get me started. This is awesome because I am disabled and my husband is on Soc. Sec. so I want to do things as cheaply as possible.

I called her once in a while to get advise and such and maybe even spark up a friendship because I really don't know many women in my area who enjoy canning vegetables, and farming and such like I do.

Over time I have asked stupid questions and discussed doing things that she corrected me on such as putting a wood stove in my goat barn to just use when the Wi weather got 30 below zero like last year. Granted I had not planned on keeping the barn 70 degrees at night, just bring the temps up a bit on severally cold nights. She sternly told me that, that was a horrible idea because it would give the goat pneumonia.

Then I mentioned that we plan on building a separate barn for the Buck for when he is in rutt and the doe is lactating so the milk isn't goaty and he isn't stinking up the main barn. He would be next to my garden where I spend most of my time and I would spend lots of time with him during that time. He would not be just left alone for extended periods to get lonely. I would only house him there when he was in rut. We also have lots of Canary grass by the gardens and I would stake him and let him eat that some. I thought it would give him something fun to do and be helpful. That would not be his only diet. I am planning on giving my goats goat (or horse) feed as well as hay and fruits and vegetables (I know to go gradual on any dietary change.She thought that was a horrible idea, that she said she does not separate her bucks and does ever.

So I kept all of this and other advise in mine and trying to learn from it. I really do want to give my goats the very best home that I am able to give them.

Hang in there I know this is kinda long but I will get to a point soon.

She gave me advise on what to feed nursing babies, how much and how often etc. I did ask her if human baby formula was ok because I know of a woman who owns a surplus store and sells it cheap. Amish women buy it from her for that.She advised against it. So I decided I would not do that.

I am an easy going person and do joke around a lot but do take caring for my animals seriously. I asked her about what she thought about miniature or pigmy goats. She told me they are very hard to nurse. I made a joke about, yeah like trying to milk a cat? Then I giggled. One time in discussing milking, She told me that she gets around a gallon of milk a day. I made a comment that it didn't matter if I got only a couple of cups a day, I would still love the goat. You know, just chit chat.

I probably have not talked to this woman more than 4 times since I have met her.

I have looked up plenty of info online about goats. I have lurked this forum for a while before finally joining so I could ask some questions.

I got a call a few days ago from her informing me that a buckling had been born and she wanted to keep him for a few days or so so he could get plenty of colostrum and get strong, then I could have him. I wanted to go right over to see him but was suffering from a yucky cold and did not want to risk giving it to her. All I could think about over the last few days was this little guy and as excited as an expectant Mom could be.

I am hard of hearing. I thought she asked if I was getting replacer. I said yes. She asked what kind did I get. I said I am getting it today. I asked her what she recommended. She told me, they had it at the feed mill in town. After talking to her, I went there and bought an 8 lb bucket of Land OLakes brand. I planned on buying more when we get our Soc. Sec. checks on the 3rd. We were also planning on getting fresh hay and feed and such then too. We are always kinda low on money at the end of the month.

I told her that I had been looking around for a good deal on a couple of does. That pedigree wasn't important to me, that I even found a breeder close by that wanted to trade goats for chickens ducks, and geese. Being as I do not have any chicks right now, the person wasn't interested in trading later but was expecting some kids, next month and I could have a couple of does for 40.00 a doe. I know what an awesome deal that is.

I told her about that. She mentioned she would sell me a high quality yearling for 150.00 which is a deal because she usually gets much more for them. I let her know that, that was nice of her but I have been getting leads for much cheaper does and since I do not plan on showing them or anything, I am looking for the best deal.

Ok here I am getting to the point.

The phone call.

It has been several days since I talked to her. I am at the tail end of my cold but still coughing so I decided to call and ask her how the little bucking is doing.

I dialed and she answered. I asked," How is the baby doing?" She replied, "He is ok." Then the next thing I know she tells me that she telling me that she is done dealing with me and proceeds to chew me out on the phone. I could not get a word in edge wise. I was chewed out for getting the small bucket of replacer instead of the big one. I was chewed out for every stupid thing I have said concerning my plans for the goats since I met her and was told that my head was up my ****. I was told You need Hay, and goat feed etc and how much that would cost per month yadda yadda. She does not know if I have hey or not, if I have feed or not. She even yelled about my comment on only getting 2 cups of milk a day. "Baby goats cannot live on 2 cups of milk a day!" she shouted. She even chewed me out for not buying one of her yearlings. It was never discussed before that, that would be part of the deal.:crazy:

What? I plan on not providing hay, feed and formula for my goat?

Bizarre doesn't even describe this phone call. Finally, I just said, "Wow." and hung up in tears.

I realize people might annoy others and not even know it. I realize that sometimes 2 people might not click or something. but Dang!

I am now heart broken. I was sooo excited.

I know I am not the brightest crayon in the box, but I give my other animals a good home. I have not had any of them ever suffer from any diseases. I have not lost any birds due to this extremely relentless winter. My animals are not neglected or malnutritioned. If anything I over feed them. None of my animals have died of any type of disease. Heck I even had a 3 day old chick that broke a leg and it was dangling by a thread. I splinted the leg w/ a piece of toothpick and superglue and today, you cannot tell the chick ever had the broken leg.

Here is a video of me with my animals. 




I am hopefully getting a couple of does from a woman that she recommended, and gave me her number. I hope she doesn't talk smack to her and ruin that. I am just in total shock over the whole thing and heart broken.

Am I just blind and my ideas on raising goats just beyond ok? I realize there is 2 sides to a story, but this really was shocking to say the least.

I guess I just needed to rant and get this out of my system.

I know she is not the only goat breeder around. Maybe the other one will be nicer. I have not met her in person but I plan on calling her in a day or so and ask if I can visit. I will invite her to visit if she wants to so she can see that our animals are well cared for.

I am new to raising goats. It takes time to learn and different people are different in how they go about it. One thing is for sure. These goats will loved.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Wow, I am so sorry. That was completely uncalled for! How rude :hug: It's probably best you aren't getting any goats from her!


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## FriendlyFainterFarm (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, that wasn't right for her to flip out on you like that. :hug: I hope all works out with the other lady. I really like the video and I can tell you love your animals too.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

I guess I get shocked by people too much. I was raised to be respectful of others. If I was a breeder and changed my mind about giving someone a goat (lets say because I thought they were not going to properly care for it), I would not chew them out. I would simply tell them that I had decided to keep the goat and I would apologize. 

I am not a door mat and I can tell someone off if they deserve it but, I did nothing to this woman. Heck she doesn't even know me. She blew everything I have said to here since we met, way out of proportion. For what? I am not an experienced goat person? 

Where did she get her start? Did she come into this world knowing everything about breeding goats? Hardly.

I am not discouraged though. My Father in Heaven knows my heart, not her and He will come through for me. I just know it.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

This is really for the best. It may not seem like it now but, it is. Just think of the 14 years of that bucklings life where this "lady" would have been in your face and no matter what, nothing you did would EVER have been good enough. 

There are nice breeders of all types out there. It's worth the effort to find them.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

goathiker said:


> This is really for the best. It may not seem like it now but, it is. Just think of the 14 years of that bucklings life where this "lady" would have been in your face and no matter what, nothing you did would EVER have been good enough.
> 
> There are nice breeders of all types out there. It's worth the effort to find them.


I agree. She did always seem to talk down to me and be controlling.

Heck who cares if I buy the large bucket or small bucket of replacer anyway? It isn't like that is all the replacer I was going to buy.

The phone conversation was just so weird and shocking. :lol:


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

If she's going to be so controlling over others who buy her goats, why sell them in the first place?? :scratch:


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you Scottyhorse, FriendlyFainterFarm, yes I love them very much


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

First I'm sorry  not at all taking sides but it sounds like she thinks you are not going to feed your animals the way they should be. I'm sure the whole giving you a buck and then you not buying dies from her didn't help that out. If this was going threw her mind or not its still not right and she didn't give you a chance to explain. I have a 'friend' who is trying to give me a doeling for free. I said no give me a price...so she came up with $100. I know exactly what was in her head. She wants a papered buck and I don't want to give it away for free......so I agree with goathiker the fact that she was giving you a goat would have just gave her the idea that she has a say. I see this a lot and it makes me so mad....if you give sell what ever a animal you have no more say!!! Sorry now I'm venting lol. There are nice bucks out there....even if she offered again I would tell her to shove him. So instead of buying a few does buy one less and get a nice little buckling. Heck if your not going to show or anything fancy just buy a buck. You can always sell the kids and save up money for a better buck later. 
As for advise and such you have all of us  not all of us see eye to eye and manage our animals the same and that's really a great thing because you can see the pros and coins of both sides of the advise your looking for. So long story short you don't need her....keep the formula for an emergency and find a weaned buckling that's just about ready to start doing his job. IMO you don't really want a bottle baby buck anyways. I have one and we have had many arguments about what's OK for his 250lb butt to do and what's not OK.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

I agree, find someone that will make the experience fun and enjoyable for you. Not someone who flips out over little unnecessary things. Just go on craigslist and look at all the goats for sale, you might find something.
And you definitely want to make friends with your breeder, they'll come in as valuable goat mentors and doctors later on


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Shoot I wish you close to me. I have a really decent starter herd of Alpines, 2 does and 1 buck, that I would give you a really nice deal on just to move them out of here. AND I wouldn't bother you about them either.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

goathiker said:


> Shoot I wish you close to me. I have a really decent starter herd of Alpines, 2 does and 1 buck, that I would give you a really nice deal on just to move them out of here. AND I wouldn't bother you about them either.


Lol


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

Wow that's not a good way to start out trying to get into goats. Like you said she had to start somewhere as well. I try very hard to treat ppl like I like to be treated. I have a buyer that has bought from me a couple times an she drives me crazy cause I don't know anything an she knows it all. So don't feel bad we all run into those ppl an sometimes just have to bite our tongue. 

I also agree with Jessica, my last buck was a bottle baby an he drove me crazy. He wanted to rub on me an bite. If you told him he couldn't do those things he got mad an pushy! I know not all babies will be like that but I wont own another buck that has been a bottle baby.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Jessica84 said:


> First I'm sorry  not at all taking sides but it sounds like she thinks you are not going to feed your animals the way they should be. I'm sure the whole giving you a buck and then you not buying dies from her didn't help that out. If this was going threw her mind or not its still not right and she didn't give you a chance to explain. I have a 'friend' who is trying to give me a doeling for free. I said no give me a price...so she came up with $100. I know exactly what was in her head. She wants a papered buck and I don't want to give it away for free......so I agree with goathiker the fact that she was giving you a goat would have just gave her the idea that she has a say. I see this a lot and it makes me so mad....if you give sell what ever a animal you have no more say!!! Sorry now I'm venting lol. There are nice bucks out there....even if she offered again I would tell her to shove him. So instead of buying a few does buy one less and get a nice little buckling. Heck if your not going to show or anything fancy just buy a buck. You can always sell the kids and save up money for a better buck later.
> As for advise and such you have all of us  not all of us see eye to eye and manage our animals the same and that's really a great thing because you can see the pros and coins of both sides of the advise your looking for. So long story short you don't need her....keep the formula for an emergency and find a weaned buckling that's just about ready to start doing his job. IMO you don't really want a bottle baby buck anyways. I have one and we have had many arguments about what's OK for his 250lb butt to do and what's not OK.


Thank you everyone for your replies. I am feeling much better.

I think I will just try to get a couple of doelings for now. There is no hurry for a buck. I would not want to bread my does this year; anyway. I really really don't want babies in the winter either, especially the 1st time I have them. So that gives me a lot of time to think about getting a buck.

I have a couple of questions.

I have heard that bottle feeding and even bonding too closely to your buck is a bad idea because it makes them want to playfully butt you more. Is that true?

Also, do you separate your bucks and does when the does are lactating to keep the milk from being goaty? Would that stress him out and make him sad? I thought of starting a thread on this so if you know of one, or other ones that might can help with topics in this thread; can you give me some links?


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I've had bottle fed and dam raised bucks. They have all been equally sweet.

Good luck.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The buck I have now was bottle fed. He was never played with though and never given special attention over any of the others. My bucks are separated once the does are bred however, I have a little herd of BIG wethers that they live with through the winter.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

goathiker said:


> The buck I have now was bottle fed. He was never played with though and never given special attention over any of the others. My bucks are separated once the does are bred however, I have a little herd of BIG wethers that they live with through the winter.


Why do you separate your bucks and does when the does are bread?

My Mother had a pair of goats years ago and got rid of the buck because he would butt the pregnant doe in her side. Is that common?

Is it common to separate them?


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I separate because I feed them differently and it's just easier that way.


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## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Also separate if you are going to milk. I've smelled some ripe bucks and I wouldn't want milk to taste like that PLUS I don't want my does to get pregnant again right away.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

She went about it the totally insane, wrong way to do it but it does sound like you need to do more research and gather a bit more knowledge before you move forward and get goats. There are not stupid questions when learning something new and her totally missing your meaning behind your comments like the 2 cups, sounds like a character flaw on her. A normal person woulda see what you were saying is, it didnt matter the production, you would love the goat anyways.

Aside from the crazy lady and her outburst there are key things that you dont bring up and need to be first and foremost on your mind when you finally decide to buy goats. And that is their disease status. Buying/trading for any random goat without thought of their CAE/CL/Johnes and a few other disease is a bad and often devastating way to start off in goats. And in the end often cost much more in time, money, effort and lose then it woulda cost to spend a bit more to ensure you get a clean animal. Its things like this that you need to research and learn about before jumping into getting goats. Pens, shelter and fencing are all needed and often have to be different from most other livestock as pens that you can lock up at night protect them from predators (even dogs), shelters need to be draft free and dry, cleaned regularly, fencing needs to be solid as goats love to test them and if they happen to find a weak spot, they will exploit it. Now maybe you already know all of this and are ready and set to buy. If so, I am sure you will do just fine without this lady


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Interesting.... Unfortunately this doesn't surprise me, or should I say sadly it doesn't surprise me..... People do and say stuff all the time that used to shock me, but the fact is it most likely turned out better this way before you bought from her, she showed her true colors JUST in time... Goathiker is right about having her on your back for years and years... I'm sure you will someone nice to work with..;-) Best of luck to you!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

so sorry for this to be the first experience with a goat breeder. BUT like others have said, it's a blessing in disguise. can you imagine dealing with this woman long term? way too much stress. I'm sure you'll be able to find some great goats near you from breeders who are willing to help and educate you, and not just berate you.

on the other hand, maybe she just had a bad day/week, and you were the unfortunate soul who she took it out on..... just wanted to throw that out there to be the devil's advocate......


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## kysavannagoats (Dec 14, 2013)

sounds like she's got some social problems


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## Hurkett_Hill_Farm (Jan 12, 2014)

kysavannagoats said:


> sounds like she's got some social problems


Or take her meds that day...... Nothing funnier than people!

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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Going to play devils advocate here

In her mind she kindly answered all your questions handled every thing up to that point of your learning experience. Then you brushed her Goats aside for some cheap ones. 

Anytime someone doesn't want to pay more than a couple bucks for a goat I immediately turn them down from buying anything from me. 

If someone complains about not having the money to buy something I seriously consider not selling to them. 

How she respond in the phone call is your side the story not saying you are wrong but she might've been just trying to get her point across out of frustration and it came out wrong. 

those of us breeding and selling for a long time have almost seen it all and we see what could happen when we hear certain words out of people's mouths. 

Personally I do try and help people understand where they might be going wrong without getting super negative sometimes it can be hard 

I don't agree with keeping bucks and does together though and some other things that she said don't add up. I don't want you to disregard her totally because Down the line you may fined you have more in common than you realize

Or she could be a crazy lady who only thinks her goats are the best and only she knows best. 

I agree with Dave when he said you really need to be considerate of CAE CL and Johnes When purchasing. Not all breeders do test for these diseases. But at least being aware before you buy is most important. knowing what these diseases can do and how they affect your livestock is important. 

Don't give up keep asking questions and know that you'll come a crossed all different people raising goats here on the good spot and in life. We don't always agree but in the end you find what works best for you.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with most on here...you don't need this lady. I have some people who have gotten goats from me that ask questions all the time. There are times I think they are just not getting it and their questions are stupid...but I answer them again and again anyway. I'll tell them this is how "I" do it....but others do it this way. 

I don't buy super expensive goats either. I'll buy at the sale barn. I have, however, learned what to look for at the sale barn and am super picky what comes out of there because of diseases like CL. I don't test for CAE or Johnes. I really can't afford to pay much over market value because if a goat doesn't work out or has a problem....the sale barn is generally my market. I can't afford to pay $500 for a goat that I can only sell for $100... Exception to that....I AM getting a registered buckling and am going to move my ND herd from commercial to registered.

There is so much that goes into animals and if I were 100% prepared before bringing anything home....I wouldn't own any. I don't have a draft free area. I know several that only have 3 sided sheds. Our goats manage to survive anyway. My fencing tends to be a little iffy....working on that is a full time job. LOL I don't keep bucks with does. I really dislike not having a general idea when babies are due. I definitely wouldn't keep Stinky in with a milking goat.... The one thing that I do differently from most on here is rely on my vet for a LOT! And that is probably the first thing I recommend to anyone....find a vet you can work with. 

Good luck and you'll find your goats!


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about getting a buck right away anyway. You will feed and care for that buck for a long time for him to breed just a couple of does. Start out with a couple of does first and see if that works out for you. Then maybe you can find someone with a buck who will be willing to let him breed your does for a small fee.


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

I also see the breeders side of this story. Here is a lady who offered you a FREE buckling. That right there shows she was willing to help you out and was kind. It sounds like you took advantage of that kindness and waited a long time to pick this free buckling up and irritated her asking questions that make it seem you didn't do any research or preparation for this goat. I'm not sure why if you are low on money you would want a buckling in the first place. I think the fact you are slamming this woman on a forum for taking back a FREE buckling she offered you out of the goodness of her heart (you were a stranger to her) is a shame. :/


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Totally agree with the testing part too.. CAE, CL, and Johnes... I didn't do that at first, but I was extremely fortunate to find my animals were all negative.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

The preparation you do now, saves you time, effort and money later. Can you get away with iffy fences and 3 sided shelters. Of course you can. In fact Id say most goat owners do. But are you more likely to lose a goat cause of the fence by them either getting out or something getting in or not having a night pen area for them? Of course. Are you more likely to have goats develop pneumonia because of a drafty shelter? Of course. But in the end, the people who care for their goats, do what they can with the time, effort and money they have available to them. They dont call goats the poor mans cattle for nothing


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

I advertised on Craigslist that I had bucks for sale and a very nice woman in my county contacted me and informed me that she had two does just for milking and was short on money. She had much the same situation as you. 
We now have an agreement where she can use one of my bucks for breeding her does and if she knows anyone that wants to buy goats she will send them my directions.

Hopefully you find someone that will help you out. If all you want is a few for milk then caring for a buck all the time is a lot of hay, meds and time that you really don't need. 

Some farms will do stud services for a reasonable fee as well.

Good Luck!!


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure! 

Also we all have bad days, we have to allow others to have bad days too, and the tricky part is not to hold it against them! Is she odd? Maybe, but so am I, and so are some of my favorite people. I would rather hang out with three odd people than one normal, but that's just me. 

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

If you deducted the going buckling rate from a doe would it be a more than reasonable rate? Maybe she was thinking if I give a buck, I could sell a doe for some and come out level?

At any rate, sounds like the phone conversation got out of hand. 

Consider if you can really afford all the costs of this type of animal, the purchase price is just the beginning, and everything else adds up to much more than that. I waited almost 30 yrs to get a goat, because of money and situational instability. 

I let crazies just be crazies, just not around me, write it off and maybe one day she will come around, and be a bit calmer.

Good luck!


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm a newbie....but l've learned volumes in a short time from these forums, recommended books (even "Pack Goats" whether you're going to use them for packing or not...training is training.) and online inquiries.

Don't play with their horns.
Don't let them do anything you don't want them doing when they weigh over 100 pounds.
A small squirt bottle of water works like magic at my house when somebody is getting into trouble.

And this is my personal philosophy...I prefer the reward method of training as opposed to fear. (My goats LOVE Manna Pro Peppermint Horse Treats....actually too much.)
Leash train the same as you would a puppy. (Gentle and Happy!)


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## Suntoo (Nov 14, 2013)

Personally I think she's nuts!
I wouldn't take her "free" buckling now anyway. Stay away from her.

If you lived near me you could have my gorgeous baby noodlehead, as long as you weren't planning on eating him.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

StaceyRosado said:


> Going to play devils advocate here
> 
> In her mind she kindly answered all your questions handled every thing up to that point of your learning experience. Then you brushed her Goats aside for some cheap ones.
> 
> ...


I am learning from this forum that there is definitely more to consider when buying a goat than I thought like cl.

How do you find out if the goats I am considering have a clean bill of health? I know you can ask but people can lie. I realize I could bring a newly purchased goat for blood tests and a physical but that would be after the fact.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

farmchick897 said:


> I also see the breeders side of this story. Here is a lady who offered you a FREE buckling. That right there shows she was willing to help you out and was kind. It sounds like you took advantage of that kindness and waited a long time to pick this free buckling


Nope, she said she wanted to keep him till this weekend. She told me last year that if she has a buckling this year she would just give him to me. I was surprised by the offer but I thought maybe being as she has worked w/ my husband in the past (They were 1st responders), that she was just being kind. I had not talked to her in a while and had been looking around for deals and already talked to a breeder about buying some goats next month. Since I have talked to her she has never discussed me buying does from her. Last year, I even asked if she had any does for sale and she said no. That is when she offered the free buck. There was nothing to take advantage of.



farmchick897 said:


> up and irritated her asking questions that make it seem you didn't do any research or preparation for this goat. I'm not sure why if you are low on money you would want a buckling in the first place. I think the fact you are slamming this woman on a forum for taking back a FREE buckling she offered you out of the goodness of her heart (you were a stranger to her) is a shame. :/


It was the weirdest phone call I have ever encountered, not normal disagreements or anything. Heck, She was even angry that I did not buy the large bucket of replacer.LOL I could not get a word in edgewise to explain being the end of the month, was a bad time to spend a lot of money when I could buy more a week later. It was the most bizare encounter I have ever had w/ someone so I thought it would be an interesting forum discussion. I mentioned no names so, I am not slamming anyone.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

OGYC_Laura said:


> I advertised on Craigslist that I had bucks for sale and a very nice woman in my county contacted me and informed me that she had two does just for milking and was short on money. She had much the same situation as you.
> We now have an agreement where she can use one of my bucks for breeding her does and if she knows anyone that wants to buy goats she will send them my directions.
> 
> Hopefully you find someone that will help you out. If all you want is a few for milk then caring for a buck all the time is a lot of hay, meds and time that you really don't need.
> ...


I had considered just doing artificial insemination, or renting a buck and I asked her about that a while back.

Her response is that there are no vets around here that do that. (Now thinking on it, I find that odd because there are so many farms around me.) I think I will call around and ask vets myself.

I had asked her if she rents out her buck for fertilization and she said no that she did not want to risk disease from other goats.

Hm I think I will see what this community has to offer as far as that. Maybe she was wrong.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Suntoo said:


> Personally I think she's nuts!
> I wouldn't take her "free" buckling now anyway. Stay away from her.
> 
> If you lived near me you could have my gorgeous baby noodlehead, as long as you weren't planning on eating him.


noodlehead. LOL That is such a cute name. LOL


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

AI is very expensive, at least here it is. Unless you have registered animals I wouldn't even consider it... I checked into AI and it was between $150.00 - $260.00 per doe. I do buck service and depending on the buck it is anywhere from $35.00 - $50.00 a doe. I will have some registered some not... I'm sure you can find someone to rent a buck from. I ask up front for the paperwork stating that the does are CAE, CL negative. If they don't have it no service.

Same when you are looking... Keep in mind if you are getting doelings they can't get tested until at least after 6 mo. So, at least get the paperwork stating the parents were tested...


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Anyone that has tested their will be able to provide you with a copy of test results.

Cheap goats are just that cheap for a reason. I get lack of funds! There are some breeders willing to do a little dickering(trading). I would trust that more then a $40 goat. 

Some advise moving forward, don't tell a breeder you want cheap because you lack funds, its a red flag for a breeder meaning you may not be able to provide for an animal. 

What breed of goat are you looking at? If you are looking for less cost I would like to suggest a Nigerian or other mini breed. Standard goats are going to run you up on feed.

As far as the breeder, well sometimes we are eccentric, moody, protective, impatient with people. Should she have lost her cool, no probably not. Have there been times I have almost lost mine? Yep. Especially when it has come to the welfare of animals, because some of us have had the misfortune of telling buyers what to do and what not to do just for them not to listen and finding out it caused the animal to die. So we get nervous!


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

janeen128 said:


> AI is very expensive, at least here it is. Unless you have registered animals I wouldn't even consider it... I checked into AI and it was between $150.00 - $260.00 per doe. I do buck service and depending on the buck it is anywhere from $35.00 - $50.00 a doe. I will have some registered some not... I'm sure you can find someone to rent a buck from. I ask up front for the paperwork stating that the does are CAE, CL negative. If they don't have it no service.
> 
> Same when you are looking... Keep in mind if you are getting doelings they can't get tested until at least after 6 mo. So, at least get the paperwork stating the parents were tested...


I was thinking along those lines of asking the breeders for paperwork from the vet.

Very good idea.

How much does it cost for the 6 month check up?


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

HerdQueen said:


> Anyone that has tested their will be able to provide you with a copy of test results.
> 
> Cheap goats are just that cheap for a reason. I get lack of funds! There are some breeders willing to do a little dickering(trading). I would trust that more then a $40 goat.
> 
> ...


I want a milk goat, and there are Nubians in my area so I was considering that breed.

I don't need a lot of milk and love the cute little Nigerian or minis but was told they are hard to milk.

I hear ya on the red flag.

The thing is people are too judgmental and they think they know the whole circumstance but a few words. Yes right now I am on a fixed income *but *I own a home that I am hopefully going to be selling soon. Alan owns a couple of vehicles that he is selling.

We own 80 acres of forest land in which we plan on selling some of the tress.

Sometimes we are broke as a church mouse and sometimes we have lots of leeway.

We don't have a fancy car.We don't have cable tv or a cell phone. We try to live a simple life and many times, a whole lot of faith helps. LOL

When we sell my house we will extend the goat pen and they will have a wonderful field to roam in. I will then maybe invest in some quality show goats for fun. I am not sure yet.

Some might say wait till you sell the house to get your goats.

I have been poor my whole life. I have done just fine. I have always had animals and always gave them good homes.

One thing about it. If we did lose power, my animals and I would be ok. We heat our home w/wood. I collect hay all warm season for the winter for my animals, besides, getting a large roll of hay.

When I get that hay (in a few days)I will be bagging it up and throwing it up in the barn loft to keep it dry so it doesn't mold.

I also plan on buying extra goat feed every month and put it up, in case something would happen in the winter time to cause us to not be able to get it.

I also plan on possibly buying things like copper bolus, supplements, and supplies that I might need later in case a time does come when I need them but am broke at the time. I will be researching shelf life and such on things. I want to learn more on this forum on what the most important things to keep on hand are.

What I lack in funds, I make up for in determination. I would rather see an animal in a loving but poor home than a rich uncaring one any day.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I have always owned bottle bucks and have never had a problem with them being mean, pushy or any more obnoxious than any buck.

My buck pen is 4 feet away from the milk stand. With 2 stinky bucks on the barn, if having the buck near the does meant nasty milk, then my goat milk would be horrible. It is not. It is sweet and very good.

I do not let my buck run with my does because I only breed the one time so I know pretty much exactly when the doe will kid. I also run all my does together, and I have 2 breeds and a variety of young does that I sometimes don't want to breed. 

I live from pay check to pay check. If it weren't for my goats and chickens, I would ahve starved to death the past 2 years because my job refuses to pay much at all and does not give raises. I support an adult son with mental health issues and get no financial assistance for that. House is mortgaged and falling apart. But, my animals are well fed and cared for. I don't have anything fancy, but what I have is mine and it works. You don't need a fancy barn with all sorts of new toys to have healthy, happy animals.

I have, in the past, let the buck run with the does 365. I had only 1 buck and 1 breed of goat and a separate area for the young stock. I never had a problem with the buck hurting the does or breeding when he shouldn't and they all loved their kids.

That woman is a nutjob. You were lucky to get away from her before she got her hooks into you. You would never be able to raise your goats as good as her and she is the type to just come and take back what she gave you. And, of course, she would have run you down to anyone who would have listened.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

SlapHappy said:


> What I lack in funds, I make up for in determination. I would rather see an animal in a loving but poor home than a rich uncaring one any day.


:clap: :clap: Well said  You'll be a great goat mom!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Bagging hay up might not be the best option. 

Instead of buying grain in the summer and saving It for the winter you're better off saving up the cash that you would spend on it and by the grain when you need it because otherwise it can spoil before it is even used. Which as we know with then not be a savings


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

SlapHappy said:


> I was thinking along those lines of asking the breeders for paperwork from the vet.
> 
> Very good idea.
> 
> How much does it cost for the 6 month check up?


I have only taken one goat in to the vet, because of the hoof situation, so they really don't have to go in for regular check ups... As


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

janeen128 said:


> I have only taken one goat in to the vet, because of the hoof situation, so they really don't have to go in for regular check ups... As


Sorry about that I pressed send to quickly apparently... As long as everyone is eating, pooing, peeing, chewing their cud everything is good. Once a month I do hoof trims on my boys, so I look at their eyelids to make sure they are a proper red color... And in general look them over really well... Copper bolus every 3 months, and they get loose minerals too. I test my animals yearly for disease, a friend comes and helps me draw blood, and it's sent in... She also looks everyone over, since she had more experience than I do...


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

StaceyRosado said:


> Bagging hay up might not be the best option.
> 
> Instead of buying grain in the summer and saving It for the winter you're better off saving up the cash that you would spend on it and by the grain when you need it because otherwise it can spoil before it is even used. Which as we know with then not be a savings


If it stays dry it can spoil?

My hay is very dry when I use it for the animals.

How I process my hay is I mow it then rake it around so it can dry. Then when it is mostly dry I put it in the barn on pallets and continue to dry it and rake it around so it dries well. Then I put it in gunny sacks so if I missed any damp hay it can further dry. Then when I am 100% sure it is dry, I bag it up in large dog food bags and throw it up in the hay loft. It isn't the usual way of doing it; but I am still using hay that I did last year and it is super dry w/no mildew or anything.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

janeen128 said:


> Sorry about that I pressed send to quickly apparently... As long as everyone is eating, pooing, peeing, chewing their cud everything is good. Once a month I do hoof trims on my boys, so I look at their eyelids to make sure they are a proper red color... And in general look them over really well... Copper bolus every 3 months, and they get loose minerals too. I test my animals yearly for disease, a friend comes and helps me draw blood, and it's sent in... She also looks everyone over, since she had more experience than I do...


Oh, my milkers get a daily check because they are already up on the stand;-)


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

StaceyRosado said:


> Bagging hay up might not be the best option.
> 
> Instead of buying grain in the summer and saving It for the winter you're better off saving up the cash that you would spend on it and by the grain when you need it because otherwise it can spoil before it is even used. Which as we know with then not be a savings


Also, stocking up on grain might cause mice and rat issues.... Lesson learned last year;(


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

janeen128 said:


> Sorry about that I pressed send to quickly apparently... As long as everyone is eating, pooing, peeing, chewing their cud everything is good. Once a month I do hoof trims on my boys, so I look at their eyelids to make sure they are a proper red color... And in general look them over really well... Copper bolus every 3 months, and they get loose minerals too. I test my animals yearly for disease, a friend comes and helps me draw blood, and it's sent in... She also looks everyone over, since she had more experience than I do...


How much does the blood tests cost?I am just wanting to get a general idea of what this endeavor will cost. I like the idea of blood testing them.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

It sounds like you have a great game plan!

As for milking Nigerians. You have hard milkers for any breed! If Nigerians were that difficult to milk nobody would have them! I have milked tiny teats that express wonderful, and I have milked alpines that had wonderful size teats and orifices so small it would bring me to tears. And I have grades(I don't care what anyone says about grade goats) that I would feel confident would hold her own against registered.

By mini I mean Nigerian cross with a Nubian, alpine, etc. Best of both worlds. Or kikos which are a Nubian pygmy cross. Then you have mini dairy and meat. 

My farm name is Rolling Acres Farm, but truthfully it should be feast or famine farm, not all of us are goat snobs that judge, some of us are just like you. Simple people, that come from humble beginnings. I started with a cheap Nigerian grade with her 3 doeling that didn't cost much. Everyone starts somewhere, I respect that.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

It's on the Biotracking.com or the other one is WADDL. Those are the ones I have used before. It ranges in prices... I think it's $4.00 for CAE and $6.50 for CL, and 14.00 for Johnes... Don't quote me... I was just looking at the prices this morning...because I'm testing in the next week;-)


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

HerdQueen said:


> It sounds like you have a great game plan!
> 
> As for milking Nigerians. You have hard milkers for any breed! If Nigerians were that difficult to milk nobody would have them! I have milked tiny teats that express wonderful, and I have milked alpines that had wonderful size teats and orifices so small it would bring me to tears. And I have grades(I don't care what anyone says about grade goats) that I would feel confident would hold her own against registered.
> 
> ...


I had a hard time milking my kinders (Pygmy/Nubian mix) at first, now it's pretty easy... I like it now.... My standard 1st FF are REALLY hard to milk, with this pencil like teats, but they are coming around;-)


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Everytime my friend calls me about her goats. I ask "Whats the temp?" She still has not bought a thermometer... She keeps forgetting. I am taking her one today as a present. LOL

When getting ready for your goats you need to go to Wal-Mart or anywhere basically and get a digital thermometer for less than $10. It will be one of the first things that we want to know when you ask a question on here or any goat friend you find around your area. Most of the meds that you will use most often are reasonably cheap, but having them on hand will really help when one gets sick.

There is a thread with a very detailed list of supplies. I printed it out and a bought some each month until I got everything that I wanted to use on my farm. Now I use the list to make sure I am properly stocked up.

You can definitely manage a small herd on Soc. Sec. as long as you don't waste money.

Have fun with your new goats


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Sorry meant kinders


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

HerdQueen said:


> It sounds like you have a great game plan!
> 
> As for milking Nigerians. You have hard milkers for any breed! If Nigerians were that difficult to milk nobody would have them! I have milked tiny teats that express wonderful, and I have milked alpines that had wonderful size teats and orifices so small it would bring me to tears. And I have grades(I don't care what anyone says about grade goats) that I would feel confident would hold her own against registered.
> 
> ...


So no matter what, it is kind of a coin toss as to if you will get a good milk goat, I guess. :thinking: Then I guess later if your doe does not milk well you have an excuse to tell your husband you need to buy another doe. LOL

I love the Name Feast Or Famine Farms. I might have to steal that idea and have my husband make me a sign. :thumbup:


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

janeen128 said:


> I had a hard time milking my kinders (Pygmy/Nubian mix) at first, now it's pretty easy... I like it now.... My standard 1st FF are REALLY hard to milk, with this pencil like teats, but they are coming around;-)


I have never milked any animal in my life. LOL Is there a trick to milking smaller teats?

I don't know if breast feeding my baby counts as experience. LOL


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

OGYC_Laura said:


> Everytime my friend calls me about her goats. I ask "Whats the temp?" She still has not bought a thermometer... She keeps forgetting. I am taking her one today as a present. LOL
> 
> When getting ready for your goats you need to go to Wal-Mart or anywhere basically and get a digital thermometer for less than $10. It will be one of the first things that we want to know when you ask a question on here or any goat friend you find around your area. Most of the meds that you will use most often are reasonably cheap, but having them on hand will really help when one gets sick.
> 
> ...


I do keep thermometers in my animal infirmary. Good idea.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Slaphappy your name fits you so well. LOL :hammer:

I keep looking by your name to see what area you are from.... I would invite you to my farm to gets some hands on experience :hugs:

I never planned on milking a goat for any reason when I bought my meat herd.. I had to learn the hard way. I hate to say that I hurt my girl doing it. Check out youtube their are some really great videos that will explain it really well.


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

OGYC_Laura said:


> Slaphappy your name fits you so well. LOL :hammer:
> 
> I keep looking by your name to see what area you are from.... I would invite you to my farm to gets some hands on experience :hugs:
> 
> I never planned on milking a goat for any reason when I bought my meat herd.. I had to learn the hard way. I hate to say that I hurt my girl doing it. Check out youtube their are some really great videos that will explain it really well.


I fixed the location by my avatar. I am in Wisconsin. I wish I had a friend close by w/ my same interests. I do have friends but none who can and dehydrated their veggies and stuff. I have one who has chickens, but no goats.

I would love to have some one around to share ideas w/ and learn from. I thought about shadowing some local Mennonites for a day. LOL I don't think they would like that. hehe


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh you will always find a reason to get another goat!

If you get a doeling ask if you can milk her dam, then you get an idea(not a promise). If a farm is selling a doe in milk always ask why, and can you milk her. Sometimes a farm will sell a doe in milk because of a milking difficulty like small orifices or lack of stand manners. Manners can be taught, difficult to express is a different story. And try the milk, no point in getting a particular breed if you don't care for that breeds taste. I love Nigerian milk and even though I have alpines it is not my favorite. My oldest son complete opposite.

Feast or Famine Farm would make a great farm name!


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

HerdQueen said:


> Oh you will always find a reason to get another goat!
> 
> If you get a doeling ask if you can milk her dam, then you get an idea(not a promise). If a farm is selling a doe in milk always ask why, and can you milk her. Sometimes a farm will sell a doe in milk because of a milking difficulty like small orifices or lack of stand manners. Manners can be taught, difficult to express is a different story. And try the milk, no point in getting a particular breed if you don't care for that breeds taste. I love Nigerian milk and even though I have alpines it is not my favorite. My oldest son complete opposite.
> 
> Feast or Famine Farm would make a great farm name!


I did not know different breeds have different tasting milk. Thanks for the tips. Those are great ideas.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

SlapHappy said:


> I have never milked any animal in my life. LOL Is there a trick to milking smaller teats?
> 
> I don't know if breast feeding my baby counts as experience. LOL


My kinders were the first thing (animal) I ever milked... I got the hang of it;/)


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow. I am SO sorry for you....
Who does SHE thinks she is? The Goat Goddess? There is only ONE person I know that I would DARE give that title to, and it sure as the daisies is NOT her!!!
Granted, some of your ideas might have been a bit unorthodox, but NO ONE deserves that kind of treatment!
I am almost thinking about some 'envy' issues going on there!

Watching your video I couldn't help but smile. I have raised ducks and geese myself. And I KNOW, personally, the amount of effort, dedication, and love it takes to have an entire FLOCK following you around like yours do! It's impressive, and admirable!
All it takes is ONE bird to not 'bond', and the rest is history!
Your animals weren't living in filth, knee-deep in mud. They had green grass all around them, water to swim in, and room to ROAM..!!!

I don't know how many people out there were 'goat experts' when they first started. Most of us want goats, get them, fall HEAD OVER HEELS IN LOVE, and then we learn as we go! Dear Creator I have done it myself!!!
When I first got my girls, I didn't have a goat house, or a pen, or anything! I put them in my spacious, wooded chicken run! And we worked on the goat pen for the following 2 days. It was small, but it was enough for my original trio. We then spent a week converting an old kids playhouse into a small goat house. Almost 2 years later we downsized our chicken flock, (and the coop where we used to house 70+ chickens), and after power-washing the CRABS out of it, we converted it to a lovely, spacious, insulated, heated goat house! Chickens were moved into a new, smaller coop, and we only have 14 hens now... We also enlarged the girls pen the same year!
When we first got our girls, I knew NOTHING. I learned as I went!
I learned about correct nutrition, minerals, etc... I am still learning!
I have had my girls for a while now, and I still feel like a Goat Dodo! I still call my Mentor for advice on a regular basis! I still visit this forum regularly seeking answers! I am STILL freaking out about kidding season!!!
Don't be discouraged by a self-centered, mindless, inconsiderate, and self righteous individual!!!
Everything happens for a reason!  The simple truth is that you were NOT meant to get goats from her! She just helped to seal the deal! 

*You go get your goats girl..!!! You are going to ROCK..!!! *


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Abra said:


> Wow. I am SO sorry for you....
> Who does SHE thinks she is? The Goat Goddess? There is only ONE person I know that I would DARE give that title to, and it sure as the daisies is NOT her!!!
> Granted, some of your ideas might have been a bit unorthodox, but NO ONE deserves that kind of treatment!
> I am almost thinking about some 'envy' issues going on there!
> ...


Your post made my day and made me giggle. :laugh:

Thank you.


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

Glad I could make you smile. 
I'm pretty down to earth myself as well, but if someone went off on me like that, for NO reason whatsoever, I would, honestly, listen til they were done (holding the phone away from my ear), ASK them if they were done, then tell them straight forward:
_"You know, I realize that you think of yourself as High and Mighty, and I'm sure you knew EVERYTHING there was to know about goats when you first started. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me the few times you did, and this conversation showed me who you REALLY are. For that I am also grateful to you, because you've saved me a LOT of heartache in the future. I'm going to learn about goats as I go, from someone else. So as far as I'm concerned, you can BITE ME!"._
THEN I would have hung up....

Maybe I'm evil....  But I would not put up with that kind of abuse.

I feel sorry for her goats....!!!


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Abra said:


> Glad I could make you smile.
> I'm pretty down to earth myself as well, but if someone went off on me like that, for NO reason whatsoever, I would, honestly, listen til they were done (holding the phone away from my ear), ASK them if they were done, then tell them straight forward:
> _"You know, I realize that you think of yourself as High and Mighty, and I'm sure you knew EVERYTHING there was to know about goats when you first started. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me the few times you did, and this conversation showed me who you REALLY are. For that I am also grateful to you, because you've saved me a LOT of heartache in the future. I'm going to learn about goats as I go, from someone else. So as far as I'm concerned, you can BITE ME!"._
> THEN I would have hung up....
> ...


I am not very good at switching gears. I was just in shock and all I could do is say Wow. and hang up. hehe. I did then cry because I had been so excited about getting the goat. I hated that I had a cold and had to wait to go see it.

I have learned from experience though that everything happens for a reason. Many many times when wanting something badly, a bad counterfeit of what you want will show up 1st but, if you are patient and don't give up; God blesses you with something much better.

You'll see. It won't be long before I will post soon, all excited about being a new Mom to a couple of baby does or something like that.

In the mean time I am learning all I can.I have goat on the brain now. It kinda feels like the nesting stage for an expectant mother. hehe

I wonder if our motherly hormones kick in or something when we get it in our heads that we want a baby animal.

I plan (tomorrow) on calling the breeder that she told me about. I wanted to wait till I was calm because I really don't want to say anything about my phone call unless she asks me about it. I rather just want to let sleeping dogs lie.

I just hope she didn't talk smack and ruin that prospect.

This person is a new breeder and somehow this year is overwhelmed with many babies. She doesn't seemed to be concerned w/making a bunch of money or anything. She mainly wants them to have a loving home.

(Totally off subject) It is 3:10 AM. My gander is making all kinds of racket for the 2nd time tonight. I just went out there w/ my gun to check on him and everything seems to be ok. The geese and ducks have been sleeping in the chicken coop(even though they have a large duck house.) It is where they decided they wanted to sleep last fall, I figured their body heat would help keep the coop warm for the winter. I wish I had trained them to the duck house instead (long story) but I wonder what his problem is. There isn't any way of anything getting into the coop. He has never done this before. Weird

Anyway, I am hopeful to have some very nice goats soon. I am having a blast learning about them, (especially the threads people are posting about there experiences w/ the births. Those are so exciting. 

I have really been enjoying this forum.

I am a night owl but this is really messing up my days and nights.LOL

Alan is a morning person so if I do get my days and nights messed up; he is good about letting the birds out in the morning and feeding and watering them. He enjoys it. I then care for them in the afternoon and evening. If I get baby goats soon, I will have to set an alarm to tend to them early and get back on a much better schedule. I probably won't be on the forum as much either I will be busy being goat Mom. hehe

I do have the best husband in the world. 

Oh and you don't seem evil to me.I have been known to give a butt chewing a few times myself. One day I might tell you about me chewing out the guy at the DMV. haha. Alan got a big kick out of that one and still jokes about it. I am Irish and Cherokee. It's in my genetics. LOL


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## Abra (Aug 11, 2012)

My hubby is Cherokee. Calmest, most patient man in the world. LOL
I can be a pain sometimes. LoL

DMV huh? LoL I chewed out a guy at Walmart once during Christmas, when he was going to make a very HEAVILY pregnant lady wait in line behind him, with a screaming 1-year old on her hip, and a single pair of baby booties in her hand, while HE was unloading 2 FULL carts onto the register!!!
When I was done, a bunch of people clapped, and I turned red as a lobster! LOL
But he DID let the lady go first! Yay!
Some people amaze me! And not in a good way!


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## SlapHappy (Mar 27, 2014)

Abra said:


> My hubby is Cherokee. Calmest, most patient man in the world. LOL
> I can be a pain sometimes. LoL
> 
> DMV huh? LoL I chewed out a guy at Walmart once during Christmas, when he was going to make a very HEAVILY pregnant lady wait in line behind him, with a screaming 1-year old on her hip, and a single pair of baby booties in her hand, while HE was unloading 2 FULL carts onto the register!!!
> ...


Good for you. I would have applauded also


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