# Dominant Goats Fighting



## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

My now 3 year old Ober boy weighed in at 220lbs. Up until now he has been my mellow #2 of the 3 goats. My #1 alpha is taller and lean at 170lbs. His alpha position is maintained with raw attitude. Alpha is 5 years old and until recently has been unchallenged. I am trying to figure out if spring season just hit these boys or did # 2 just figure out at the age of 3 that size does matter. Daily they have bloody heads when I get home from work and seem intolerant of each other.It is amazing they don't break each others necks. My #3 is 194 lbs he just jumps in and sucker punches which ever goat is loosing at the moment. They are great on the trail and get upset if they are separated.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

*Re: Dominant goat behaviors*

Hello,

from what I can tell, it's the age. Around 3 they are finally mature and would start competing for a harem.


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## Bob Jones (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Dominant goat behaviors*

All of mine have been competing lately. They are now 5,6,2,2,1

The yearling is big enough that he is #2. I think the rest are trying to sort it out.

I was out back a couple days ago and they were all sparring. They were all up and down on their hind legs, and bumping heads. No sooner would they bump, one would turn away and challenge the next one. It was sort of like speed dating on testosterone. One wouldn't normally walk into the middle of something like that, unless of course you have notoriously little knowledge of goats. Diego was about 5 feet away from me when he went up on his hind legs.

Goats are really much bigger than you think, until you see them towering above you posturing for a challenge. Then you know just how big they are. They cock their heads in an attempt to hypnotize you into standing still while they bludgeon you. Whether you are susceptible to being hypnotized or not, their eyes are the wrong place to be looking. No don't look there either, even though it is about in your face when they stand up.

A normal person looks for an easily climbable tree, but not so easy for a goat to climb.
I had the option to run away screaming like a little girl, in hopes that a goat vying for dominance wouldn't hurt a little girl, or pretending to be the dominant goat.

Knowing that goats pee on their faces to to exude dominance, but not having time to do so, I had to settle for wetting myself. I also screamed like a little girl to confuse the goat with mixed signals giving myself the psychological advantage.

I quickly calculated the momentum of a standing goat and compared it to the momentum of an attacking goat just before it hits the ground. The calculation was not difficult. There is no momentum when he is standing, and a whole bunch when he is attacking.

I figured no momentum was better than a whole lot, so I stepped into him and grabbed one horn and a rear leg. Mustering all the images from old jujitsu movies, I stepped to the side and dropped him. Now that I think about it, that may have been when I pulled my shoulder. I just sat on him a while, and when I let him up I rode him a while, not putting all my weight on him.

He was mad at me for a day, but he's over it now.

So the dominant goat behavior in our herd is to wet yourself and scream like a little girl. Although the challenging goat will look like he is hypnotized, he is probably just startled with amazement at the whole affair.


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## ryorkies (May 4, 2010)

*Re: Dominant goat behaviors*

My yearling is the boss.
He has the biggest horns.

I can not quit laughing.
The picture in my mind of
Bob wetting himself and 
screaming like a little girl.


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## Cazz (Jun 9, 2010)

*Re: Dominant goat behaviors*

That is very funny Bob. :lol:

Only thing I would disagree with is this:


Bob Jones said:


> One wouldn't normally walk into the middle of something like that, unless of course you have notoriously little knowledge of goats.


I would phrase it "unless of course you have very little or a lot of knowledge of goats".
None of our goats would ever be permitted to dominate or think they are dominating a person, and I reserve the right to do whatever I want around the goats without much interference. That means that there is never I time I wouldn't walk among them, and if there was a time when there was a situation similar to yours, I would immediately go and put them all back in their places. Our goats are allowed to fight among themselves as much as they like, but I have strict rules about harassing each other, being pesky nuisances to each other, or butting goats who aren't trying to fight them. For instance, ramming any other goat, except in the heat of heavy fighting, is not allowed. Sneaking up on another goat and standing beside it, then giving it a big butt is equally unacceptable, same with sneaking up and rudely biting another goats' udder and then bashing her if she turns around indignantly. (one of my goats is especially adept at that :roll: ) 
Any goat near me is strictly off limits for butting, and no pushing is allowed near me either. If I want to push them over though, they have to accept that, and they know that I can back up what I tell them to do. I don't use unnecessary force, and they know I'm not going to punish them for little things, but they also know they have to behave around me.  
Sounds like I am really bossy probably, but I want people to be safe to act normally all the time around our goats, and no goat should be scared to stand beside me for fear of getting butted.  It makes them a lot happier to have rules when people are around and to know that I am consistent and will protect them if they want to come and be patted. It is extremely annoying to buy a new goat, and then find that it will spitefully bite another goat who I am patting, or ram a goat it is boss of if it is within five metres, even when I am there. :?

Sorry if I've rambled on a bit! Feel free to ask about anything I've said.  
And BTW, I am only a teenage girl so you don't need to be that big or strong to be the boss goat.  
Cheers,
Cazz


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## patti marar (Sep 12, 2011)

Ah, Cazz, wish you here in the US and not in Australia! I could use your approach. I know my two does love me, but the dominant one does not respect me. She's nailed me so many times I don't let her close to me anymore. We just got a 7 month old wether and he's a total love, for now at least! We got the does when they were older, with horns. The dominant one sees to like me, but is very moody. Sweetness turns into full blown hatred in an instant, that's the dangerous part, because I can't always read her. Cleaning the pens is irritating. I dare not bend down so my head is down or I'll get head-butted! Let me tell you, that is one nasty headache! Does anyone think a 6 year old Alpine dominant doe is still "trainable" using their own nature rather than abuse? I knew nothing about goats and only learned that water is a great deterrant by chance. My husband has her respect, but I do not. He grabs her by the horns and pushes her back until she's had enough. I'm not that strong and the goat outweighs me. She is also taller than me when on her hind legs.She knows she intimidating. She actually went after my seven year oldson in the yard (that's when I figured out the water thing with the hose-I know dogs well and they hate it as well). Along with the water, I yelled for my son to climb his swingset. Well, he didn't do that, but he did hide behind our large dog. At least that distracted the goat from her original target. She doesn't always act like this and is unpredictable. Sometimes she is actually a sweetheart. Can they be especially moody during heat cycles or something? I also want to get on the right track with our new wether and not make such blatant mistakes!


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

patti marar said:


> Ah, Cazz, wish you here in the US and not in Australia! I could use your approach. I know my two does love me, but the dominant one does not respect me. She's nailed me so many times I don't let her close to me anymore. We just got a 7 month old wether and he's a total love, for now at least! We got the does when they were older, with horns. The dominant one sees to like me, but is very moody. Sweetness turns into full blown hatred in an instant, that's the dangerous part, because I can't always read her. Cleaning the pens is irritating. I dare not bend down so my head is down or I'll get head-butted! Let me tell you, that is one nasty headache! Does anyone think a 6 year old Alpine dominant doe is still "trainable" using their own nature rather than abuse? I knew nothing about goats and only learned that water is a great deterrant by chance. My husband has her respect, but I do not. He grabs her by the horns and pushes her back until she's had enough. I'm not that strong and the goat outweighs me. She is also taller than me when on her hind legs.She knows she intimidating. She actually went after my seven year oldson in the yard (that's when I figured out the water thing with the hose-I know dogs well and they hate it as well). Along with the water, I yelled for my son to climb his swingset. Well, he didn't do that, but he did hide behind our large dog. At least that distracted the goat from her original target. She doesn't always act like this and is unpredictable. Sometimes she is actually a sweetheart. Can they be especially moody during heat cycles or something? I also want to get on the right track with our new wether and not make such blatant mistakes!


I know this is an old thread but the principals remain the same.

As a few of the wisest goat folks have told me..._it cost just as much to feed a bad goat as it does to feed a good goat._..only keep good goats around. This applies to those that will pack or not as well as those that are behaved or not. _They must be behaved ALL the time._ Sorry I have NO tolerance to this behavior you described. It would be curbed ASAP or she would be down the road or in the freezer.


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## Chopsgoats (Aug 20, 2013)

I had two wethers that always butted heads and took cheap shots at each other. It's normal, as far as bleeding mine would have days with a little blood on thier heads it eventually calmed down a little


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

My ober boys are now 7 and 5 years old. There a co-dominance in my herd. Bossy pants with the attitude and my 220lb mellow boy. The middle weight boy remains the subordinate to both of the other 2 but oddly enough he is number one in the pack string order. This is an order that the goats dertermined by themselves in the early days and has never changed. When hiking if you stop the goats will meander about but when you take off again the subordinate goat will stop at nothing to get in the front of the packstring line. He wants to be the leader in the goat line right behind the humans. I suspect it is a position of safety for him.


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## TOU (Aug 18, 2013)

idahonancy said:


> My ober boys are now 7 and 5 years old. There a co-dominance in my herd. Bossy pants with the attitude and my 220lb mellow boy. The middle weight boy remains the subordinate to both of the other 2 but oddly enough he is number one in the pack string order. This is an order that the goats dertermined by themselves in the early days and has never changed. When hiking if you stop the goats will meander about but when you take off again the subordinate goat will stop at nothing to get in the front of the packstring line. He wants to be the leader in the goat line right behind the humans. I suspect it is a position of safety for him.


I find this very interesting. In my limited hikes wit my new to me Alpine & Lamnacha...the Alpine is definitely more dominant. I think its mainly that y Lamanacha just doesn't care much. BUT...get them on a trail & the Lamancha is 3-4 steps off my heels followed my bulldozer Alpine in second position. He seems quite content with it. That is until I break out some peanuts. LOL :smile:


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