# Advice about Leptospirosis Abortions :(



## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm looking for any advice on a possible Leptospirosis outbreak. We have had four abortions in week. I'm heartbroken. :tears: The vet suspects Lepto and we took a fetus and a placenta to the lab for the analysis. I've researched online but most articles I read stated that this was very rare in goats. :sigh: I was just curious of anyone here had ever had an confirmed outbreak.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh wow , I'm so sorry  I haven't heard of anything like this , I'm interested to hear if anyone else has …..
If you don't mind , i have a few questions….
Do you have any other does expecting ? Is your vet testing them as a precaution ? What is your vets plan to treat your does once the test results come back ?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm very sorry this is happening to you, how awful 
Lepto abortions are not common in goats by any means, do you happen to know why the vet thinks it's lepto? Were the does exhibiting any symptoms prior to aborting? The most common causes of abortion in goats is Chlamydiosis, seconded by Q-Fever and Toxoplasmosis.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I don't know treatment protocol or frequency of lepto in goats but it is a zoonotic bacterial disease spread through urine.

It's pretty easy to kill in the environment but use caution! It can cause liver and kidney failure. If you have dogs keep them away too as they can catch it.

Is your vet treating the goats for lepto? Did they recommend testing? and tell you precautions to take?


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Oh wow , I'm so sorry  I haven't heard of anything like this , I'm interested to hear if anyone else has &#8230;..
> If you don't mind , i have a few questions&#8230;.
> Do you have any other does expecting ? Is your vet testing them as a precaution ? What is your vets plan to treat your does once the test results come back ?


Thank you Trickyroo
I have 10 more does expecting throughout March and early April. My next doe will be at 150 on the 12th. So I am hoping she will hold out a least a few more days. The vet told us to go ahead and give them the cattle vaccine for Lepto. He assured us that it wouldn't hurt anything if they didn't have Lepto until we can get the results back from testing. We also gave LA200 in case it could possibly be Chalymidia (sp?). If the necrospy doesn't turn up immeditate results it will take 7-10 days for the results to come back from the state lab.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Do they have a good loose mineral with selenium in front of them? In any event, Id bo-se em and give em a soft gel vitamin E to go with it.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I'm very sorry this is happening to you, how awful
> Lepto abortions are not common in goats by any means, do you happen to know why the vet thinks it's lepto? Were the does exhibiting any symptoms prior to aborting? The most common causes of abortion in goats is Chlamydiosis, seconded by Q-Fever and Toxoplasmosis.


He didn't say why he suspected Lepto. He just said that would be his first guess without the lab results. The does show no symptoms of illness. They have good appetites before and after the kidding. They are all at a good weight, good eyelid color, no scouring, no fever, etc. They will seemed perfectly normal and the next thing you know they start pushing. That what has me so blind sighted by all of this.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Good point ^ Selenium deficiencies can cause them to abort as well. 
With so many of them, if it is Chlamydia, a feed through tetracycline would be more cost effective.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

TDG-Farms said:


> Do they have a good loose mineral with selenium in front of them? In any event, Id bo-se em and give em a soft gel vitamin E to go with it.


They do have a good loose mineral. We use the co-op Forage Master goat -mineral the copper is 1700 ppm min / 2100 ppm max . The copper is I will check with the vet about getting the bo-se and I will pick up the vitamin e.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Then I would doubt it's lepto, the clinical signs are vomiting, uveitis (inflammation under the eye), pancreatitis, bleeding, and hemolytic anemia.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Good point ^ Selenium deficiencies can cause them to abort as well.
> With so many of them, if it is Chlamydia, a feed through tetracycline would be more cost effective.


My hubby asked about mineral deficiencies and he didn't feel that was the cause. He felt like it was more disease related because we did purchase a new buck last fall??...but until the lab results come back we can't be sure.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Then I would doubt it's lepto, the clinical signs are vomiting, uveitis (inflammation under the eye), pancreatitis, bleeding, and hemolytic anemia.


I read that online but I also read an article that stated that sometimes there were no other symptoms. Just the abortions. I'm so confused. That is why I was curious if anyone else had ever dealt with anything like this. I hope the lab results come back soon. I will be worried to death for the next 5 weeks.:sigh:


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Not a terrible mix. Id like to see less sulfate and oxide bases but at least it does have some alternatives. What part of North Carolina?

here is a link to a selenium map. if you are in a low area, the bo-se vit E would help. If you are in a high area, you might have to selenium.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

The mix we use is the best we can get here and its a hour drive each way to pick it up.

It looks like we are in a low selenium area. We have had goats for almost 9 years and never had a problem before
I get with the vet on the bo-se tomorrow.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

springkids said:


> My hubby asked about mineral deficiencies and he didn't feel that was the cause. He felt like it was more disease related because we did purchase a new buck last fall??...but until the lab results come back we can't be sure.


If he is an adult buck, that would be a reg flag for Chlamydia for me. Make sure to treat the buck as well.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Chlamydia was my first thought as well....


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

goathiker said:


> If he is an adult buck, that would be a reg flag for Chlamydia for me. Make sure to treat the buck as well.


 Good call Jill!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

My husband lost a dog many years ago from lepto. Its a horrid disease.
Took him very fast. Before i moved here , there was a vine running up the side of the house , very full and quite beautiful . That came down within minutes of me being here , lol.. He used to like seeing the raccoons looking down through the skylights at him , lol.. I love raccoons , very cute animals , but also lepto ridden little beasts.
I shudder everytime i see opossums , *****. Im petrified of my dogs getting sick. I give the lepto vaccine , but its still possible for them to contract it. The shot just lessens the severity.
But since its shed through urine , its impossible to prevent it really. 

Springkids , im praying for a good outcome with your expecting 
does :hug: Again , so sorry for your loss.
I never knew that goats could contract the lepto , never even entered my mind.
Thanks for posting this , even though you suffered losses , you opened my eyes to the possibilities , even if they are very rare.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks guys for the support. Hopefully we will know something soon. The not knowing is really hard. My biggest fear is that it is something else and medicines we gave won't help. On a positive note as of 5:30 this morning everybody was still pregnant. So fingers crossed......


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

I have a friend who lost several kids and lambs to Lepto 2 years ago. Confirmed Lepto. Not sure what he did afterwards.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> I have a friend who lost several kids and lambs to Lepto 2 years ago. Confirmed Lepto. Not sure what he did afterwards.


Do you know if they born too early, still born, etc? I read one article that said with Lepto most times the kids were still born. I've witnessed two of these abortions and the kids were alive at birth.

So far our girls are still holding on to their babies so we are getting more hopeful. I have a doe that is at 143 days today. I'm hoping she can hold them until the weekend. ray: Thanks again for all the advice and support.

I will update with the info from lab as soon as I get it...Maybe it can help someone else.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

goathiker said:


> If he is an adult buck, that would be a reg flag for Chlamydia for me. Make sure to treat the buck as well.


We suspected that as well. We did treat everyone with LA200 just in case. We felt like we had to go ahead and try to control this even though we don't have the lab results. As of now almost 30% of our spring kid crop is gone. :tear:

We thought about trying for some late fall kids out of these does once we can figure out whats going on.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Some were born early and dead, some died within hours. All were too early.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I just talked with the vet that performed the neocropsy and he found nothing obvious. Pathology results will start coming in next week. All the girls are still holding the babies so I'm very optimistic about that. We are just taking it one day at a time. I will update with the pathology results as they come in. Thanks everyone for all the advice.


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow , wonder what if anything the path reports will tell….
That's great , keeping them in my prayers


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Chlamydia is very hard to find in the fetus and/or placenta. If nothing shows up, that is likely your problem.


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## Summersun (Apr 24, 2014)

I would like to know your results because I had 4 abort within days of each other. They were all around 3 months pregnant. I didn't have the money and didn't think about it until the kids had already be disposed of, so I didn't send them off. I think mine is chlamydia from a buck I bought. I've only had 1 doe kid successful this year and still have 3 others that either didn't abort or aborted way sooner and didn't show signs. But they don't look very pregnant so may not of took.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Wow , wonder what if anything the path reports will tell&#8230;.
> That's great , keeping them in my prayers


I hope so. Thank you.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Summersun said:


> I would like to know your results because I had 4 abort within days of each other. They were all around 3 months pregnant. I didn't have the money and didn't think about it until the kids had already be disposed of, so I didn't send them off. I think mine is chlamydia from a buck I bought. I've only had 1 doe kid successful this year and still have 3 others that either didn't abort or aborted way sooner and didn't show signs. But they don't look very pregnant so may not of took.


I will post as soon as I know something. I'm sorry for your losses. I know how frustrating it is.


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I just wanted to post a quick update. I am still waiting on the pathology results. (If we don't hear from them today I am going to call back tomorrow.)

But I do have some good news....my first doe of the year delivered a beautiful set of bucks yesterday evening at 149 days.  One lovely paint and a traditional. They are healthy and I couldn't be more excited. I will try to take some pictures this evening when I get home. All the other girls are still holding so we are slowly inching toward due dates. Each day that passes I find myself with more hope. Thank you all for your support and prayers!!!!!


artygroup::woohoo::dancing::fireworks:


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Yay!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Congrats!!!! arty:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad you had a normal birth!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Thank goodness ! Im so happy to hear this :hug::dancedgi:


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## rebelINny (Feb 7, 2014)

Whew! One down...


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

I just wanted to update you all. We received a call yesterday from the diagnostics lab and all results came back negative. So according to him we are clear of "infectious disease". So that makes me feel better.

We have also been very busy. We had another kidding on the 16th. Everything went great 

We also had another kidding yesterday that also went well until it was time for them nurse. After several hours and a lot of ruckus in the barn I now have 2 bottle babies asleep on my desk as I speak. Glad I have an understanding boss. ;-)

Not sure why she won't let them nurse. She was an excellent mother last year. We have checked her over from head to toe and can't find anything. She cleaned them at birth and she isn't mean to them...so I don't know.

Anyways, I just wanted to let everyone know what was going on and hopefully by the weekend I can update with more healthy deliveries and I will post some photos as soon as I can get them outside.
Thanks All!!!


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Great news ! And congratulations ! Aww , sorry your doe isn't into nursing her babies this year  
Wonder what the heck is wrong….How is she when you milk her ? 

You certainly have a very nice boss to let you have the babies with you ! Thats awesome  

Will be looking forward to seeing pictures


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## springkids (Sep 12, 2013)

Trickyroo said:


> Great news ! And congratulations ! Aww , sorry your doe isn't into nursing her babies this year
> Wonder what the heck is wrong&#8230;.How is she when you milk her ?
> 
> You certainly have a very nice boss to let you have the babies with you ! Thats awesome
> ...


Thanks. She gets very distraught when we try to milk her. It takes me and the hubby both.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

So excited about the resent kiddings and happy that they are healthy. As far as the other does- I'm wondering if perhaps they ate some sort of a plant or weed. It is usually not the case and in your case may not be the reason either but I am curious as to what types of plants that they might have access to.


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