# How to tell if a goat is stunted.



## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Miss Priss and Swissy go attacked by coccida very young. I think they might be stunted. They haven't grown much in the past 3 months (fatness yes, but overall body growth, no!) How do I know if they are stunted? HELP!!!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

What breed, age and weight?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree, we need more info. Also, what were they treated with, how did you administer it, and how long did they receive treatment? What are they eating and how much?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> What breed, age and weight?


Nigerians. Will be a year old in Feb. About 25-30 lbs. (from the fatness)


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Scottyhorse said:


> I agree, we need more info. Also, what were they treated with, how did you administer it, and how long did they receive treatment? What are they eating and how much?


They eat ADM, BOSS, alfalfa pellets, and beet pulp shreds. Of course they get hay. We hit them with the treatments for about a week. We treated them with Toltrazuril. We fought coccida hard this year. I dont see how we won the battle. (I think we won?)


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I would say they are pretty small. Have you weighed them or is it just a guess? Have you have a fecal run on them recently, including cocci? I did some research and it seems like Totrazuril is the generic to Baycox, which is a good one.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Scottyhorse said:


> I would say they are pretty small. Have you weighed them or is it just a guess? Have you have a fecal run on them recently, including cocci? I did some research and it seems like Totrazuril is the generic to Baycox, which is a good one.


Just a guess. It is the generic of Baycox. Cheaper, works just as good. I will try to get a fecal done on them. Does stunting them make their health worse? Or just their size? Should we hold off breeding them?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Miss Priss's dad is small (Bandit) and Swissy's mom is small (Cocoa). Could that be what it is? Would it be bad to breed them to a small buck?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry if you already know this but cocci attacks the intestines so they can't absorb nutrients as well, leading to slow growth. Hold off on breeding them for sure. Do you have any recent pictures of them?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

That could be but since they had cocci I wouldn't be surprised if it did damage their intestines.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Scottyhorse said:


> Sorry if you already know this but cocci attacks the intestines so they can't absorb nutrients as well, leading to slow growth. Hold off on breeding them for sure. Do you have any recent pictures of them?


I'll get some pics after we gt back from eating.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Sounds good :thumb:


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

It's coming an absolute blizzard out there. I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

if they have damage from cocci they shouldn't get fat instead of growing. I suspect rather the small parents. Also, a goat grows for 4 years and they often stop growing in the first winter for several months, to resume it with the next spring.

And as the others wrote, breeding them now will put a stop to the next growth spurt because they will put the energy into the lambs. On the other hand, fat will also put pressure on the growth plates and can cause lasting damage there (OCD comes to mind).

As for how to tell if they are really stunted: you would need to x-ray their long bones. It the growth plates are closed already they won't grow any more. As long as the growth plates are open (and they normally stay that way for 4 years) you can expect more growth.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

sanhestar said:


> if they have damage from cocci they shouldn't get fat instead of growing. I suspect rather the small parents. Also, a goat grows for 4 years and they often stop growing in the first winter for several months, to resume it with the next spring.
> 
> And as the others wrote, breeding them now will put a stop to the next growth spurt because they will put the energy into the lambs. On the other hand, fat will also put pressure on the growth plates and can cause lasting damage there (OCD comes to mind).
> 
> As for how to tell if they are really stunted: you would need to x-ray their long bones. It the growth plates are closed already they won't grow any more. As long as the growth plates are open (and they normally stay that way for 4 years) you can expect more growth.


So shouldi breed them or not?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Pics would help determine if they are "fat" or "wormy"....forgive me if you know the difference in looking at them, but there is a difference...


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree, it may not be a cocci problem, but a worm problem.

Approximately how much do the parents weigh and how tall are they at the withers?
And how tall are your does that you think are stunted?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

fishin816 said:


> So shouldi breed them or not?


you should find out IF they are stunted because of developmental problems or just small because of their parents.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I agree, it may not be a cocci problem, but a worm problem. Approximately how much do the parents weigh and how tall are they at the withers? And how tall are your does that you think are stunted?[/QUOTE
> 
> Cocoa is about 18 inches. Swissys mom. Bandit, Miss Priss dad is about 19 inches. Really guys, I think they're fine. I have came to the conclusion that it is their parents. So nobody else needs to reply to this. But thank you all!


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> I agree, it may not be a cocci problem, but a worm problem. Approximately how much do the parents weigh and how tall are they at the withers? And how tall are your does that you think are stunted?


And we also wormed them recently so that can't be it


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok, if they are around the same size as their parents, they should be just fine if you breed them to a buck that is their size. 

They can still have worms after being wormed. One wormer doesnt kill them all, but they should be just fine if they look healthy :thumbup:


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Ok, if they are around the same size as their parents, they should be just fine if you breed them to a buck that is their size.
> 
> They can still have worms after being wormed. One wormer doesnt kill them all, but they should be just fine if they look healthy :thumbup:


Will the babies be REALLY small if we breed them to a buck their size?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Genetics plays a role in size.

But, I also believe worms and cocci can stunt growth dramatically. Cocci can be at a higher level and not show scouring signs, but will stunt growth.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> Genetics plays a role in size. But, I also believe worms and cocci can stunt growth dramatically. Cocci can be at a higher level and not show scouring signs, but will stunt growth.


They are very healthy and eyelids are nice and pink. I don't think they have works or covci


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

fishin816 said:


> Will the babies be REALLY small if we breed them to a buck their size?


 Considering how small the does are and how small their parents are, the babies will be born pretty small (about 1.5-2lbs most likely).

If the does are nice and mature, they should have no issues kidding if they are bred to a small buck. The doe determines the size of the kids, so as long as she isnt overfed when pregnant, she should kid just fine. I've never had a doe that wasnt able to deliver her kids.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Considering how small the does are and how small their parents are, the babies will be born pretty small (about 1.5-2lbs most likely).
> 
> If the does are nice and mature, they should have no issues kidding if they are bred to a small buck. The doe determines the size of the kids, so as long as she isnt overfed when pregnant, she should kid just fine. I've never had a doe that wasnt able to deliver her kids.


I just really think they're still to small to breed. But Blaze is the same size as them. So maybe TINY kids will be born?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

If YOU think they are too small to breed then don't breed them. You are the one who has physical contact with them and can actually make that decision.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

fishin816 said:


> They are very healthy and eyelids are nice and pink. I don't think they have works or covci


 Can't always tell that way if the cocci load is slightly elevated.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

kccjer said:


> If YOU think they are too small to breed then don't breed them. You are the one who has physical contact with them and can actually make that decision.


 I agree, you must think they are quite small and concerned because you are asking, but disagreeing at the same time with suggestions that causes stunting. 
The only thing I can suggest is, use your best judgment.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Well, I don't know why I'm getting this idea now, but, could we feed them a meat goat feed to make them grow a little bit better? Just an idea.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Can you post pics of them?


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

NyGoatMom said:


> Can you post pics of them?


They really are fine. Just, for breeding, I need to get some weight on them.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Should I give them the meat goat feed or not?


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

fishin816 said:


> They really are fine. Just, for breeding, I need to get some weight on them.


why? Overweight goats either won't get pregnant because the fat will press down on ovaries and tubes or will have problems with kidding because the lambs are too large.

Why not simply wait til next year? What's the rush?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I would still like to see pictures if them. I would probably wait, even if they aren't stunted.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

sanhestar said:


> why? Overweight goats either won't get pregnant because the fat will press down on ovaries and tubes or will have problems with kidding because the lambs are too large.
> 
> Why not simply wait til next year? What's the rush?


I just thought they couldn't hold the baby.


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