# Two Questions About CAE Testing Process?



## lenallen (Mar 25, 2009)

I've read many times about CAE testing. Always thought it would happen to someone else. We need to test our four 2-1/2 yr old wethers (which we adopted as babies before knowing about CAE).

The WADDL FAQ recommends have a vet take the sample, but ok for owners, too. Why not do it ourselves? (Goat-savvy vets are hard to find here.)

I've heard there are respected labs in both Washington and Colorado. Can you please refer me to arguments pro & con that people report for each?

Thank you.
-Lee


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

lenallen said:


> The WADDL FAQ recommends have a vet take the sample, but ok for owners, too. Why not do it ourselves? (Goat-savvy vets are hard to find here.
> -Lee


Lee,

do you know how to take blood and how to find a vein on a goat's neck? Do you have the necessary equipment for blood taking (or a source to buy from)?

You don't need a goat-savvy vet, just a vet who knows how to draw blood.

On older goats I do the blood-drawing myself but with the younger goats (up to one year) I still have problems with finding the vein. And I don't want to poke them endlessly so I call a vet to draw the blood from the young goats and do the older ones myself.

Would I adhere to a CAE-programme (the goat breeders clubs advertise these) I would have to let a vet take the blood to avoid any suspicion of "faking results".


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

No reason not to draw your own blood. You aren't likely to lie to yourselves about the results. 

Or, any vet can do it, if you are squeamish. Here is the page from WSU for submitting lab specimens. You have to fill out the form and where it says vet just leave blank. Make sure you write what the specimens are for and label the tubes with a number and goat's name, and put the same number and name on the form in the white box at the bottom left.
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_WADDL/ You will need to supply the accession form you can print off on your computer.

There are two different tests for CAE. The ELISA test done by WSU is considered 98% accurate compared to the AGID done at some other places.


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## lenallen (Mar 25, 2009)

Replying to the thread to keep the info for future reference for others. I started the thread asking about the CAE test process.

Custer's CAE test from WADDL came back positive. Huge bummer. 

To perform the CAE testing we checked YouTube on how to restrain a goat while drawing blood. So I (an engineer) tried a couple barnyard contraptions to hold Custer still while sampling. No good. 

By wildly fortunate coincidence I had trained them since birth to "stay." i.e., with both arms I very gently hug one of the goats' head, jaw, horns, ears, scalp, while whispering "stayyyyyy. stayyyyyy. stayyyyyy.." Meanwhile wife Kate inserts needle, draws blood and out before goat seems to notice.

Then, I let go, say GOOD BOY!, then award a treat. 

Well, wontcha know That worked great while wife Kate found the vein, inserted needle and finished. Happy goats, happy owners.


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## lenallen (Mar 25, 2009)

Well, I guess I'll just run my own little thread here. 

Thought I'd post info about how we are treating Custer. First we gave Naproxen Sodium, dosage depending on size of knee joint swelling (only rt-front knee) and severity of limp. He seems to have more sleeplessness some nights, too. Always stiffness and soreness upon arising from sleep.

We have given from 220mg twice a day, up to 440mg three times on worst days. We wrap the pills in a peanut butter/oats ball a bit smaller than a golf ball. Made up a couple hundred balls and pop one or two in his mouth as needed. Trying to balance relief from pain/swelling against chemically destroying his organs with medication.

Maybe coincidence, but bitter cold seems to make pain and swelling much worse. And extra-warm spells seem to nearly totally remove the symptoms.

Short 1-mile hikes every day seem better to keep him loose with less pain and swelling than longer vigorous up/downhill hikes of 5 miles. But he has never, on worst days, had much trouble walking, except a bit more going down steeper inclines. As long as he is moving (hiking) he seems better off.

A vet recently suggested half a pill a day of "Phenylbute Boluses 1 gram", a NSAID, as an alternative to the Naproxen Sodium. Custer seems much better with that, but it could have been due to the spring's warmest two days this year, too. 

Right now, this spring, Custer is generally better than in depths of 0-deg nights and days in January (South Dakota).

Custer's 3 brothers still defer to him as leader on the trail when he is up to asserting lead position. But at feed time in the barn he has lost some dominance. Even the lowest ranking brother, a runt, sometimes takes on Custer for access to preferred feed stations.


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## idahonancy (Dec 13, 2008)

Thank you for adding to your own thread. I have little to offer but I learn alot from information like this. Good luck with Custer. IdahoNancy


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## lenallen (Mar 25, 2009)

Custer Update
3/28/2010
WADDL's CAE test came back positive. The method of restraining Custer while we a blood sample (for the first time) was a happy story in itself.

We have stopped Neproxen completely and staying with only the Phenylbute from the vet. Custer is now nearly without visible symptoms. Hair is mostly smooth. Limp is quite mild upon rising from sleep (when it was most stiff in the past). Hiking and romping is vigorous, but he is selective when and how to do it. The other goats have backed off in deference to his leadership. His appetite is high, albeit a bit spoiled, since we gave him some extra-weight building grain in lieu of hay when he was feeling poorly and diminished appetite.

I am not sure whether the relief is due to the warmer weather (40-60's high, 30-40's low), or due to the meds, or natural.


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## sweetgoatmama (Dec 10, 2008)

MSM and Glucosamine can be used for relief of stiffness. THis is good for goats with CAE and also goats who are just getting older.

It's available in horse formulas or you can use the human stuff or paste.


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