# What to feed old goat that can't eat hay.



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

My Toggenburg goat Barney is at least 19, all was well until two weeks ago with his arrangement outside, a shelter with paddock which had long old grass he could pick at (he can't eat short grass because he has no teeth left at front but he still has teeth up the back) but I had to bring him and his younger friend inside and keep them separate because Timmy started knocking Barney over flat on to his side and he couldn't get up! I was terrified it would happen when I wasn't there hence bringing them in for now. I think this was just happening at feed times as each time I found him flat out was after I had fed them.
My problem now is the Barney can't eat hay at all, I did start off giving him a hay replacer that gets soaked called fast fibre three time a day but he won't eat it now. He will still eat a pony mix along with his supplement twice a day and is getting about a 1kg of that a day. I am also giving him dengie Alfa-A but he's going off that now too, he also has access to a molassed chaff and a chaff for ponies called safe and sound which he loved but he's hardly eating those now either so he just isn't getting enough fibre :/ 
Any suggestions? And how much should a goat be eating a day, he's a biggish goat but lean and has been for quite a long time which I have put down to his age, he's lively and happy enough but obviously a bit weak when he's getting pushed over by the other goat.
My intention (when the mud dries up) is to fence the paddock into two and give them a shelter each so they can still see each other for company but kept safely apart. Timmy is also sulking because he's inside, anybody want to swap a naughty big goat for something more compatible for Barney, preferably ancient with no teeth haha. 
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any feeding suggestions I could try and the amount he should be eating per day. I was also thinking of injecting him again with b12 as it picked his appetite up a few months ago but his supplement Caprivite has it in it and he's been on that for a couple of months.


----------



## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

We found our old, cranky, picky, doe likes a senior equine feed. It is very calorie dense, and claims to have easy to digest fiber(s) in it. It is also caked in molasses, which makes her very happy! I don't know how much she should really be eating. We pretty much give her as much of the senior equine feed as she'll eat. It ranges between 1 to 3 lbs a day.

It might be worth looking into for your old guy. Sorry I can't help much more than that! Good luck!


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that PippasCubby  that's a great idea because at the moment the pony mix he is on is just a basic one and he would eat as much of that as I would give him, will get a senior one and will give him a bit more of and see how he goes. Sorry you have probs with an older one too, they are such a worry aren't they. I got some molasses too and poured a bit on top of his range of chaffs tonight so hoping that will tempt him to eat some of it. Also got him some grass nuts which he's picking at. The old devil has cost me a fortune this week!...but he's worth it 
Thanks again x


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

My old boy is eating Allegro senior which is a low protein complete horse food. I add a little bit of alfalfa pellets to it to fix the CA/PH balance.


----------



## PippasCubby (May 13, 2015)

No problem! I hope it helps your guy! 

My old girl is definitely worrisome. I am hoping this feed continues to help her out, otherwise we are going to need to make some hard decisions about what is best for her.

Oh, and I hear you about the cost! The feed is not cheap!!!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

19 years old!!! thats a long amazing life!! Good job


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

NINETEEN!!! Holy mackerel, and I thought my 14-year-old was getting ancient! Nice job keeping your boy healthy for so long! 

My "old" goat hasn't got many teeth and can't eat hay either so I give him a lot of alfalfa pellets. He can still chew the pellets dry, which is how he prefers them. But occasionally when he's having tooth trouble I will soak them in a little warm water until they break up to the consistency of moist sawdust. A lot of goats won't eat them if they're too wet and sloppy. I also give my guy a scoop of the same grain I give my milk does since he needs the extra calories but does not yet need a senior ration. 

In winter I also try to get him some really leafy 3rd or 4th cutting alfalfa. He can't chew hay stems, but he loves the soft, tiny alfalfa leaves and has no problem eating them. You might try buying a bale for your goat and see if he can manage it. My goat does not have to eat so many alfalfa pellets when I have leafy green late cutting for him, and he likes the unprocessed stuff so much better.

Good luck!


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the replies folks  much appreciated.

I'm in the UK Damfino and we don't seem to have the alfalfa bales you are talking about :/ they sound perfect though, we have a dried alfalfa made by Dengie that's bagged like chaff, he did like that at first but now he's gone off it, I've poured molasses on some and added a bit of water to see if that will tempt him to eat it again. It is a bit course though as are most chaffs so that will be why he's struggling probably.
He hasn't hardly even touched his pony mix today which is a worry so I decided to get some more B12 and injected him with that a couple of hours ago, so fingers crossed his appetite will pick up like it did a few months ago after a few injections.
I looked back on some old posts on here and 3 years ago he was struggling a bit, can't believe that it was three years ago! So he has done well getting to the age of 19! Im still hoping he will get in to Guinness Book of Records as oldest goat haha


----------



## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

19! Wow...that's amazing! Kudos to you, your management practices and your commitment to him!!!


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

How about the idea of making a jar of sprouts for him? Alfalfa, oats, wheat? They would be soft and nutritious, right?


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks top_goat, I try my best, he's very special to me, can't imagine life without him as had him so long! 
Mariarose your idea sounds great but I've never heard of it can you explain how I make it please.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, you need whole seeds/grains to sprout, and I don't know what you have available to you. Any seeds will sprout, it is what they do when they are planted in the ground, but not all sprouts are palatable to goats. That is why I suggested alfalfa and 2 common grains.

I fill a wide mouth quart mason jar 1/3 full of seeds, and put water in it. My water is non chlorinated. If yours is chlorinated, let a jar of water sit open for a few hours before using it. The seeds can soak overnight. Drain the seeds (I use thin cotton cloth cut from an old T shirt that has been rubberbanded to the top of the jar to let the water out while keeping the seeds in. That is it for that day. I start another jar 1/3 full of seed soaking in nonchlorinated water. The next day I rinse and drain the 1st jar, and drain the second jar, and start a 3rd jar. The next day I rinse and drain Jars 1 and 2, and drain jar 3 and so on and so forth. All this while the rinsed and soaked seeds are growing. When Jar 1 is full of sprouts I empty it and use the sprouts, and use the jar for that day's new sprouts. So I have fresh sprouts constantly. 

You do need a constant supply of whole seeds and grains however. And it goes without saying that they should not be treated with poisons like garden seeds sometimes are. They need to be food grade seeds/grains, because unlike what you plant in your garden, you will be consuming the seeds. I don't know what your stores have, or what you have available to order.

Lots of information online on sprouting, this is just how I do it. The light hits the sprouts through the glass jars and greens them. People who sprout for people food don't usually grow the sprouts as long as I do. Goats and ducks don't seem to mind. This is very related to growing sprouted fodder, which I want to do one day. Look that up online as well. But starting a single jar as an experiment is a simple way to wet your toes.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

That's amazing advice mariarose, I will definitely be trying it, thanks for taking the time to explain it all too me, sounds like you've got it off to a fine art.
Do they need to be in a warm place or just in the light? it's cold here at moment and daylight hours not that long but starting to get longer. I'm in the UK.
Will see what whole grains I can get, sure I've seen whole oats and barley.
Thanks again much appreciated. His eating has picked up a bit after the vitamin B injection but would like him to be eating more.


----------



## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

All great advice! I just wanted to add that there are no concerns with doing the B-Complex injections on top of what his supplements contain. Any surplus B vitamins are eliminated in urine - so inject away! Usually a 3 to 5 day sequence at 6cc per 100lbs is most effective for a goat that is "off" a bit. 

Also, I'm not sure if you have this service in the UK, but here in the US there are essentially horse dentists that go to farms and file down sharp points on horses teeth? They aren't necessarily veterinarians. They are very good at identifying any problem areas that his back molars may be causing him pain.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

elaine said:


> That's amazing advice mariarose, I will definitely be trying it, thanks for taking the time to explain it all too me, sounds like you've got it off to a fine art.
> Do they need to be in a warm place or just in the light? it's cold here at moment and daylight hours not that long but starting to get longer. I'm in the UK.
> Will see what whole grains I can get, sure I've seen whole oats and barley.
> Thanks again much appreciated. His eating has picked up a bit after the vitamin B injection but would like him to be eating more.


Yes, I saw you were in the UK. That is why I put so many disclaimers as to what you may or may not have available!!

Naah, not a fine art. I live in a rough house on a rough farm in KY, and nothing I do is finetuned!!! I had a pregnant doe (she did not look well) in here last night and tonight have lots of hay/straw/droppings in my house. So many people here have better facilities for their goats than I do for myself and my hardworking husband. All I can say is I love goats and I'm doing the best I can.

My jars are in my darkish, North-facing kitchen. I heat with firewood in a single room and my kitchen is coldish. Nothing is frozen in my kitchen, but it gets to refrigerator temp from time to time. That probably slows down the sprouting time. That is why I offer volume guidelines, not timeline guidelines!

I'm in awe of you being able to keep a wether for 19 years!!! My finances would forbid that... Good for you. I have a paper plan to incorporate a fodder system utilizing house gutters on a wall. Just waiting for the money. One step at a time and all of us will get this right, each of us according to each of our goals. Your boy is so very lucky to be with you. I mean it. Here, he would have found a swift, comfortable death, and turned into dogfood for my LGDs.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks SalteyLove for the info on the vitamin B, I was a bit worried if over doing it but it seems to be working so it's good to know the body gets rid of any excess. I do have ponies and the horse dentist will be doing a visit in a couple of months so I will ask him about doing the old boys teeth, thanks again much appreciated.
Thanks too Mariarose for more help with the grains. How lovely of you to bringing the sick doe inside I can see you have much love for them and their welfare. I would do same if needed to, but not sure how other half would react to that haha, but I've had Barney longer than him and he has been told he would be gone before the goat 
Hope you reach your goal eventually with the plan you have, sounds like a great idea. Good luck with it.
Thanks for your kind words, I'm lucky that where money is concerned Barney can have what he needs to keep him going, be interesting to see what age I can get him to. 
Thanks again to all of you it's lovely to be able to come on here and get help.


----------



## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I totally agree. thegoatspot is truly thebestspot!

Elaine, please do let me know what you find works for your boy. I'm completely hooked by your quest.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

I will do mariarose, thank you, hope your sick doe doing ok.

Here's a photo of Barney, he's the one on the left smiling


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe...sweet face.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

How is Barney doing? I've been thinking about him lately. Such a beautiful old boy!


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi Damfino,

He's doing good, thanks for asking.

We are winning with the food, he's not eating vast amounts but I do think he's getting enough and he's very perky. 
He eating Dengie Alfa-A, maybe two to three of those big round scoop fulls a day, half of same size scoop of dry grass nuts and sometimes a bit of pony mix.
I've also started feeding two good feeds a day of fruit and veg, he loves that, I go shopping and my fridge is full of stuff for him haha. He's always been partial to bread and biscuits, which I know probably aren't that good for him but hey at his age why should he be denied them, so he gets a few slices of bread a couple of times a day and a few biscuits, he also like weetabix and other human cereals so I sprinkle a bit of that on to his Alfa - A and his grass nuts and I think it encourages him to eat them. The old monkey can still eat hay as we did get some softer hay for the ponies so I gave him some and he started munching away on it, although he won't eat enough of it for me to cut down on his other feed, he probably is now thinking though why should he eat hay when there is better food on offer! 
We have a few months to go before the grass starts coming through so just hoping he continues to eat up until then.
Hope your old boy is still doing ok.
The things we do for our oldies, I spend more time preparing Barneys food than I do on my partners


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Aw, I'm so glad he's chirked up and started eating again. My old fella LOVES bread! It's one of those pleasures he can still enjoy in spite of a lack of teeth. He's had to mostly give up the popcorn--much too hard to chew, and he does insist on trying to eat the hard little kernels at the bottom of the pan. I don't think it hurts to give our old fellas bread in moderation. It's full of grain, starch, and sugar for energy. I hope Barney reaches your goal of "oldest goat ever".


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thank you Damfino  had to laugh at your old boy eating popcorn, sorry he struggles with it now. Pleased you think bread ok in moderation, I think Barney would eat as much as I would give him as loves it but I am sensible with it.
Here's a photo of Barney yesterday, have you any photos of your old boy and what's his name.


----------



## GoatCrazy01 (Feb 14, 2016)

19! That's amazing! Maybe try some alfalfa pellets?


----------



## GoatCrazy01 (Feb 14, 2016)

Just saw the last couple of posts- I'm glad he's doing well.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks GoatCrazy


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi Elaine
being in a similar situation I am keen to hear how you are managing. Our goat Hubertus is "only" 15 but we are not sure whether that's true. We have had him for 13 years and when we got him we were told he was 2. Our vet very much doubts it... he thinks he is much older. Well, Hubertus' previous owner told us that the pony which came with him was only 16 (when I looked at the few teeth I estimated her at least 25+) and when the vet checked her we were told she was at least 35 years. We only wanted the goat but felt sorry for the pony which would have been left alone this is why we came home with both... pony did well for another five good years (could only eat mash, soaked cobs and maize silage) befriending a filly and Hubertus got a goat (she's now 13) as a companion.
Anyway Hubertus needed his teeth done by vet 3 times last year and again recently but this time obviously with not much success. He can't chew hay anymore, was allright with haylage until now, is now eating hay cobs for horses (large pellets which need to be soaked in water) in small amounts every few hours. A feed he loves is the Pygmy Goat Mix (Allen + Page).
We live in the North of Scotland (Orkney Islands) and it is very difficult to source specialist feeds up here. So his hay cobs come from Germany by post every 4 weeks...
My problem now is that he wants to nibble on some hay, straw or haylage. Although we make sure the intervals of feeding are short he is still "programmed" to nibble. But I had to remove all of it and put him on hemp bedding because he was close to choking. What I pulled out of his throat and mouth looked like a chewed wig.

Did or do you have similar problems?

Apart from these feed problems he is still fit and lively. Just needs additional warmth (we have a very cold spring in the North this year) and is wearing a felted sheep wool rug which was tailor-made for him (like a miniature horse rug) by a local craftswoman.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi there Hubertus' parent 

Sorry you struggling a bit like me with Barney. Unlike Hubertus Barney won't make any attempt now at eating hay or haylage and he's managing to survive (although thin but well and perky in himself) on a morning feed of an apple, carrots and a pear, 3 slices bread and a good big dollop of treacle, same again at night. He has infront of him all the time dengie Alfa-A, grass nuts and pony mix, some days he looks like he's eaten non of these then other days one of the assortment will be all gone. I don't soak any of these as he won't eat them soaked. I think I have tried every feed possible he's very fussy and the above is the only ones he will eat, he's even been known to turn his nose up when it's same feed but a new bag!

I've had to stop myself worrying now as he's well in himself but wish I could get weight on him. He's now back outside with a shelter, which at the moment he doesn't come out of that much but hoping when he gets warmer and the grass comes through that he will put weight on. His friend is separate from him now but they can still see each other over the fence. I also think he's had a copper deficiency as he looks wormy all the time even though he's regularly wormed, so he's now been treated for that so he may look better soon with that too.

What does Hubertus look like weight wise? If he has plenty weight on I would just continue with what you are doing. Could you get grass nuts locally instead of the feed from Germany? Also would he eat and be ok nibbling a finely chopped horse chaff?

Like the sound of his rug  Barney wearing two foal rugs at the moment.
I was thinking of getting Barneys teeth done but wasn't sure if the stress of it would finish him off! Will mention it to horse dentist when he is here next.

You sound as bad as me taking on things as you don't want to leave one behind


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

You do know that treacle slows the rumen? It may not be the best thing in older goat.


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi Elaine,

since Barney is used being handled the teeth could probably be done without anaestetic. The only problem is that everything is a lot tighter and smaller in the back of their mouth unlike a pony and there is not much room for the dentist's fingers...
When Hubsi was younger we had it once done under general anaesthetic. It was a lot easier for the vet to do a really good job then. But now the risk of him not waking up would be too big.

We got some apple chaff today and he seems to be ok with it as long as he doesn't get too much at a time. 
He is skinny but has been like this for a while. Vet said it's age related and no need to worry (yet). 
Luckily he loves the soaked stuff so gets in plenty fluid which (according to vet) is good because they always worry about kidney problems in older male goats. He also loves lukewarm herbal tea (chamomile, thyme, sage...) and gets a little bit of porridge once or twice a week (only cooked with water, not with milk).
His coat is getting thin, so vet prescribed some zinc supplements... at least I don't have to worry about worms... I usually check samples myself with a flotation solution and the complete kit and microscope and because I wasn't absolutely sure about my skills had the lab check samples as well and they confirmed there was no need to de-worm.
Carrots and some homeopathic remedies seem to make sure the flora in the guts is not what the parasites want 

Recently he had a build up of ear wax in his ears, looked really horrible as if he had mites. But vet said it wasn't mites and had no explanation whatsoever. Seems to clear now after treatment...

It's so difficult when they get very old... but as long as they are happy and have a quality of life we just have to do what's needed...
At least summer is coming (hopefully), it's gonna get harder again in winter.

Yep, I seem to be like you not wanting to leave one behind... this is why all my animals came with me when I moved from Germany to Orkney some years ago... 7 ponies, 1 draft horse, 2 cows, 2 goats, 6 chicken and a 16 year old rabbit...


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that about dentist I will definitely be asking and seeing if can get him looked at to see if that's his problem.

Great about the apple chaff and the rest of his food he's eating, luckily Barney drinks enough, I must try him with the tea  I did try porridge but he turned his nose up at that. Didn't know that about carrots, I'm pleased he loves them. 

Well done on the worm testing nice to know you were getting right results.

Pity we weren't neighbours haha, the boys could be together and we could give each other a break! Hard work isn't it if want to go away for the day! 

Wow that was a lot of animals to move from Germany! Lovely you brought them all with you though. At the moment I just seem to be home for geriatric animals  

Luckily at the moment it's only Barney needing extra tlc but know it's going to be never ending having older animals, don't think ever going to get a holiday lol, bet your the same with Hubsi needing special attention.

As you say as long as they are happy, we are trying our best so not much more we can do.

Any pics of Hubsi, would love to see what he looks like


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Sorry Goathiker just seen your post about the treacle, I didn't know that so thanks, I initially got it to encourage him to eat but he wasn't so keen with it in his feed but eats it on its own in a bowl, when it's run out I won't give him any more. He will be devastated lol as loves it, bit sick of the mess though so I will be happy, it sticks to his beard and it's everywhere


----------



## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Maybe a couple pieces of natural horehound and licorice candy instead? It's still sweet but, contains good herbs.


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

yes, sometimes it feels like running an old four-legged folks home 

whether it's an elderly chicken which needs monthly Vit B injections (sadly our oldest passed away recently aged 17, her daughter is almost 11 now but luckily still very fit and active) or an old goat... ponies are getting old now...
I don't go away for holidays at all anymore... a day in town is bad enough (requires a whole day with 2 hours ferry each way), always need somebody to stay with the animals if I have to go over there (for dentist etc.)

I tried to upload a pic of Hubsi... but it seems to exceed the size 

How's Barney coping with the cold weather? Or is it not as bad where you live?


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that Goathiker, will try him with that instead 

A 17 year old chicken, I never realised they could reach that age! 

Sorry you so tied aswell, luckily I don't have a ferry journey so can manage to escape to some nice places locally inbetween the feeding regimefor a couple of hours, think I would go insane if couldn't escape for a little break.

Barney seems fine with the cold, he was out with the other goat in a paddock with a shelter until January think it was, when Timmy started knocking him over I brought them in and split them up but Barney always seemed warm enough with his rugs on. His got a nice snug shed at the moment but doesn't really venture out, we are in Cumbria and although it's cold I don't think it will be anywhere near as cold as Orkney.

Sorry you couldn't upload a pic of Hubsi  what breed is he, what breed of ponies have you? I've got Welsh A's and did breed Arabs at one point a few years ago, still got my old ex arab stallion who I got gelded age 16 and he's now 29! Also got welshies age 26, 22, 19, 18 and two younger ones


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

Hubsi (and his lady friend) are both pygmy goats... but she must have had some other ancestors as well because she needs a bit of shearing sometimes in spring, some strands feel like angora 

The ponies are Welsh-A and there's also one Shetland-Mix and the drafthorse is a Noriker (Austrian breed). He is only 9 years old but with PSSM type 2 he can't work.

With the chicken I have my own theory... if they manage to survive the "chicken menopause" which happens usually around 2 - 3 years and can cause a lot of problems and stop laying eggs for good they have a very good chance to live long. Especially the ones who never were good layers 
Leonie (the 11 year old) stopped laying eggs when she was 2 after she raised offspring of her own. Perhaps she didn't want to risk becoming a mum again


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Aww I love pygmy goats, bet they are so lovely.

Barney wasn't so good today :'( I went over to feed him this afternoon and he was stuck on his side again (it happened twice before when he was in with Timmy hence their separation) but it's never happened since until today. He was in his shed and looked like he had been struggling for quite a while to get up, I managed to get him up but in hindsight I think he should have been propped up for a while before I got him to his feet as he was very wobbly for quite a while.
After a couple of hours he didn't look so bad and he's eaten his fruit and veg and a bit of bread, he been to toilet too so alls ok that way.
His ears are a bit droopy and to the side and his bottom lip drooping more than usual too :/
No idea how he ended up on his side and now I'm going got be panicking all the time incase he does it again, I've banked his bed up much more at the edges to try prevent it happening but not sure what else I can do. Going to look to see if can get a wireless cctv to put in his shed! 
I was devastated as thought I was going to lose him and I am really unsure what to do as don't want to find him down and know that he has suffered. Why are things so difficult


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

so sorry to hear about Barney's trouble... I feel with you... it's exactly the same situation we sometimes have with our draft horse... we don't know whether it's the PSSM which causes it, vet once mentioned it could also be equine motor neuron disease which is not well known.

He finds himself sometimes in the same position as poor Barney.

Living on a remote island means that vet is depending on the ferry timetable to come out so we are on our own regarding treatment very often.

It was the right thing to get Barney on his feet. Circulation can usually be better helped when standing up. You could try to get Arnica globuli (homeopathic remedy). It is used to treat shock and collapse as well as convalescence when weak. I was always rather sceptic but according to our vet it has in the past saved our big horse's live when he was down. Vet couldn't come out due to ferries cancelled (bad weather), had him on the phone repeatedly for advice and prognosis was very grim due to vet not being able to give him the required treatment for shock. He was down for a whole day, we had to turn him over to his other side repeatedly (not easy with a 1.000 kg horse) to keep the circulation going and minimize pressure of his own weight on his internal organs... it was a nightmare. A few hours after he received the homeopathic treatment he was on his feet again. And he surely didn't believe in it so no Placebo effect.
Now when he has a "weak day" he gets his "pills" at the first symptoms to avoid such a disastrous situation.

I just double-checked in my books whether Arnica can be used in goats and sheep for the same purpose... it can.

We have CCTVs in our sheds (some wireless, some wired)... I bought my first camera in 2003 (still working) when our mare had given birth to her foal 2 months before she should have been due according to the breader. Foal was not premature (but a surprise) so I guess the breader just had gotten his paperwork mixed up. He is a fine stallion now.

You need to check whether a wireless is suitable for you. The signal doesn't get through thick stone walls and in a densely populated area your neighbour might get the pics on his TV...
The best (and cheapest) bet for a start is a wired camera connected to the TV through some opening in the wall, some cables are thin enough that the cables are not damaged by a closed window if you lead the cable through the open window and close it then. Electronic gadget shops sell them very cheap (often under 30 £) and sometimes LIDL has them on offer. They often even come with night vision and some also with sound. The camera from 2003 is a Lidl camera. 
It definitely makes things a lot easier because you only need to disturb him when he's in trouble and it gives you peace of mind.

Fingers crossed for Barney that he recovers well!


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks so much for all that info, very helpful, I will definitely be getting some of the arnica globuli so it's on standby.

You have done so well with your horse! Especially with him being that size. Know what it's like to try and get one to its feet but never one of that size. Must be so difficult with the vet and the ferry situation, not something I have ever thought of about people living on an island.

I have a good cctv with the wire that we use to use for foaling but the wire is no where near long enough to go over the field where he is, it's probably about 50m possible further to his shed, I can see it out of window, there's no obstructions or neighbours so perhaps wireless would work, the only ones I have come across need an electric supply though or work through wifi but we have no internet just Internet on phone and through a sim in the iPad :/ And not sure how much data they would use up, I suppose I could run electric cables over there if can't find a wireless where the camera part works from a battery. How does your wireless one work?

He's actually doing not so bad since the incident and the next day he seemed back to normal thankfully, think it was me who had more stress than him!
I've been for more feed today and found something he can eat hay wise, unless he goes off it! so wondering if Hubsi could manage them too, they are a hayblock that can be fed wet or dry and quite shortly chopped and this is why I think he can manage to eat it, wondering how fast he will get through one, I haven't soaked it just pulled it apart, they weigh 1kg. Be expensive if he ate one a day but think I would be well pleased if he managed to eat that much!

Here's a link if it works
http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/equest...ilibrium-vitamunch-healthy-hedgerow-95658.htm

Also got him this
http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/small-...ducts-651/horslyx-smallholder-block-71680.htm

So he's very happy at the moment, oh and some nice veteran pony mix which I hope will be to his taste!

Hes happy and I'm....skint lol 

Thanks again for your help and hope Hubsi still doing ok


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

good to hear that Barney is doing better again!

I looked at the link about the hayblock, it's probably similar to what's in the haycobs we feed. https://st-hippolyt.de/England/index.php/fibres/141/prealpin-wiesencobs-detail
Hope the link works 

They come in a 25kg bag anc including postage from Germany to us it costs 31.48 € (so roughly 25 £ including delivery) so work out a bit cheaper than the block. 1 bag just lasts a month... he's needing about a kg of roughage per day so with some chaff and horse mash etc. we just manage with our abonnement (which is monthly). Yep, our four-legged friends do their best to make sure we are skint at some point every month!

He loves it and because it's being soaked I can add herbal remedies (or if required medicine from vet, his glucose powder, turmeric etc.) without him having a chance to sort it out 

Our wireless cameras do need a power supply but when we moved up here we had all the barns wired and sockets installed by an electrician (there was no power in the sheds before) so that is not a problem. 
But you can improvise with a waterproof extension cable. Best and cheapest can be found where they sell camping and caravan supplies (neoprene cables are good).
Some of the cameras which only connect to a TV get their power supply from the connecting cable so don't need one where the camera is positioned. But these usually come with a max. of 30m cable... so again an extension is needed.

It is such a pity that you don't live in our neighbourhood... got a wireless camery in my horsebox trailer which gets its power supply from the battery of the towing vehicle... since the trailer is not being used at the moment you could have borrowed that one...
was a cheap buy at ebay some years ago but can't remember which maker it is... have you tried to google wireless car cam 12V? These cameras are usually designed as a parking aid for larger camping vehicles and run from a 12V car battery. This might work for you?

Hope you have nicer weather down south... up here it's freezing cold and has been snowing today brrrrr... luckily Hubsi has his sheepskin


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks yet again for all the help and advice, I really appreciate it 

I wish we were neighbours as could help each other out so much, especially with taking turns at goat sitting 

I have good news today, Barney actually ventured outside and started nibbling at grass that's starting to come through, he even wandered down to the bottom end of his paddock! I was in shock, he seems so much perkier. He ate maybe a third of the hayblock last night and a scoop of grass nuts! He had a tootsie trim yesterday which was a bit over due as his feet had gone like concrete after the time he spent insid, but they had softened up a little so I finally managed, so he must feeling better in himself. It has been a warm day so took one of his rugs off but it's gone cold again so will have to go put it back on shortly. Hope your snow doesn't come our way! Yes it's a good job little Hubsi has his sheepskin.

What a great idea about the car cam! Never thought of that, I'm sure it would work, you have such good ideas, will look in to it. The feed cheaper than block sounds great too so will look in to that too, thanks.


----------



## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I had one old doe I needed to keep weight on when her teeth went. I fed her the same diet I fed my geriatric mare and gelding- soaked beet pulp mixed with the feed they make for older horses with some soaked alfalfa pellets. The feeds are extruded (puffed up like breakfast cereal) so they are soft and easy to soak. They also have a bit higher fat % and contain a high % of fiber. I also fed the Lucerne Farms packaged hay, which has been cut into 4 inch pieces and is easy to manage for them. They don't have to chew it as much as hay. It's soft and moist.


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that Lottsagoats1 

I've tried him on beet pulp but he turned his nose up at that, he doesn't seem to like to eat anything soaked for some reason, I think I have tried every brand of horse and pony feeds in the local feed store, good job I have other animals to eat it up. 
The Lucerne Farm hay sounds good, he has eaten similar and at moment will eat a little of the dengie Alfa-A and got him eating a few grass nuts which makes me think his teeth can't be that bad if he can manage to munch on those when he feels like it. I think he's just the fussiest goat on the planet, whoever said goats eat anything can't ever have owned one


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

I have noticed that very often animals who don't like soaked feed only do not like it when it's cold 

My solution: Hubsi's big cobs bucket (24 hour ration) is prepared every night with cold water, a bit less water than needed, so it can soak overnight. When he gets his first portion in the morning I take my large thermosflask with me in the barn so the portion is mixed with warm water and can be fed at a very nice temperature 
Thermos flask stays in the barn to make sure all other portions during the day and evening can also be served warm... 

Some animals also like the soaked stuff better when mixed with some warm herbal tea.

Perhaps this would work for Barney too? Has worked fine in the past with horses, cows, goats


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that, I will try the herbal tea to see if that makes a difference. The problem I have is he won't eat his food up straight away, so when it's made with warm water by time he gets round to picking at it its gone cold, he is such hard work, I could do with one of those gadgets, is it a hostess trolley, lol to keep it warm  but the herbal tea is a great idea.
He's not been doing too badly these last few days, I've seen a big improvement in him since the weather has been better, he's been out and about and looks much happier in himself.
Hope all is well with Hubsi and everybody else.
Will get some herbal tea and let you know how we get on with it


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

don't know about gadgets  we used other (more traditional) methods back in Germany... when we had -22° for weeks in winter the water in the chicken waterbowl used to freeze solid... so I always had two bricks on the wood fired stove which I heated (not too hot of course) and placed their water bowl on top of it. Kept it almost lukewarm for many hours...
For the horses we used an old coal fired laudry cauldron in the paddock, was fun to see them standing round the steaming water bowl (in those low temperatures there was steam although the water was kept at just hand warm)... they loved it 

Also have an old kitchen pot for the smaller animals which is double-walled (not sure whether this is the correct English) from my granny... they used to fill this space between the two walls with hot water (it's even got a valve on it) to keep warm whatever was in the pot... the thing probably dates back to 1930 or so but works absolutely fine 

Perhaps any older relative has got one?


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

What great ideas! We have a wood burning stove so would be no problem heating bricks. 
- 22!! that was cold! Had to laugh at the horses round the cauldron 
Know what you mean about the double walled pot, will have to have a look out for one as that sounds really good.
He's still doing ok and managing daily to eat a scoop of the grass nuts which amazes me as they are dry plus his other bits and pieces, I'm hoping he may actually put a little weight on! Will get some herbal tea when I go shopping so will see how that goes 
Hope little Hubsi doing ok too.


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

yes it was cold near the Alps  but at least there was no wind... so it did not feel that bad. I remember one winter where it was so cold for so many weeks that I had to fetch the chicken in the house. They resided in the living room and loved to hang out around the large "Kachelofen" enjoying the warmth. 

It was freezing cold up here the last days (and still is) with the arctic winds coming from the north. When rain, sleet and snow come horizontally one best sits by the fire 
Horses have to wear thermal rugs even inside... Hubsi is doing fine at the moment, he is not putting weight on (like Barney) but as long as he manages to keep his weight it's ok. 
It's just very demanding to feed every two to three hours small portions to avoid an overload... day and night... I am thinking of installing one of these instant water heaters in the barn... at the moment I am so busy with the thermos flascs. The large one unfortunatly broke (was quite an old one) and the smaller one holds just enough water for two meals.

So it seems we a fighting the same struggles  you and me


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Can imagine how much the chickens will have loved living in the house  I can just picture them sitting there.
It's so cold here now too so it must be far worse with you, glad everyone has got their thermals on they will be needed. Pleased Hubsi is doing ok.
That must be hard work feeding through the night as well. Luckily I'm not having to do that as he's just trickle feeding when he feels like it so no chance of overload. Hope you can get water heater sorted to make it easier for you.
I can't see an end to constant struggles, can you, as have so many other older animals that could end up in the same boat, I think we must be mad haha


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

it's a bit like Faulty Towers around here 

I found out that he's quite happy for a few hours at night when he's only got some chaff to nibble (he was not so keen on it for a start after the novelty was gone) so at least I get a few hours sleep 

Nice and sunny today... so he's outside now but wind is picking up (and forecast not good for the next days)... will need to get him inside soon, still the wind is cold... it's only force 5 - 6 (what's called a light breeze up here)  but he's wearing his sheep coat as usual... I need a second one 

Would really be good if you and Barney lived near... Hubsi is such a nice and pleasant companion and I believe Barney is also a friendly chap, they probably would get on better together than Hubsi and his lady friend who sometimes is not very friendly to him... it's ok outside but in the shed it's only safe for Hubsi having a steel panel between him and the (not very ladylike) lady


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Faulty Towers, thats funny 

I so pleased Hubsi is allowing you get a few hours undisturbed sleep and that the weather hasn't been too bad, hope you haven't had the rain we had earlier today, was horrendous!
Barney and Hubsi would be a good match I'm sure, Barney is very gentle and friendly, can do anything with him. My other goat Timmy would be a perfect match for The lady friend, although there could be a big size difference as Timmy is huge! He's an Anglo Nubian x Toggenburgh. Would be great to have you all up the road, we have so much in common and with the ponies too


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

I just had a laugh about Resi (the "lady") being a match for Timmy 

She might be tiny but she'd teach him the meaning of fear... even our drafthorse knows that one better does not argue with her  she has horns and the horses don't... it is for the protection of the horses that there is a fence between them now.

A very dominant lady indeed.

But she's not the only crazy one here... one of our two ducks (both male) is a summer pervert... every summer he picks one of the chicken (just one, he leaves the others in peace) and really gives her a hard time trying to mate. They could fly down to the small loch (lake) and meet the wild ducks, there are plenty... but have decided to stay in the garden and bully a chicken. So there is a fence between them and the ducks in summer  and I had to give up my veggie plot because of the crazy duck...
I have threatened him with ending up as a roast duck... but since he knows that this is an empty threat he doesn't listen


----------



## elaine (Feb 20, 2010)

Your place sounds madder than mine...and that's saying something haha.

I could do with Resi to sort Timmy out! When my back is turned he keeps rearing up at me, I think he thinks I don't know he's doing it as nobody's got round to telling him I have eyes in the back of my head 

That poor chicken of yours bet it was a relief when they all got fenced separately. We have something similar with one of the alpacas! If I say trim his feet or something after I let him go he goes and jumps on Heidi sheeps back and start doing naughty things! Must be some kind of protest after what he's had done to him haha.

Barney went off his feed again, so been a bit of a worry, anyhow I got the herbal tea and soaked his grass nuts in it and he ate them! Thanks so much for that suggestion, I poured some on his chaff earlier so will have a look to see if that's encouraged him to eat any.

I think part of his trouble is that he gets bored with his food, if he's offered some thing new he will eat it a couple of times then decide he doesn't want it anymore, so I am now trying to chop and change all the time. Fussy old man, he drives me mad, I was in tears the other day as thought it was the end with him hardly eating and he seemed very stiff on his front legs, then he perked right up and was wandering around outside and trying to butt Timmy through the fence!


----------



## Hubertus (Apr 7, 2016)

so difficult sometimes with the old animals... it's always an up and down, good days are followed by days where you get close to phoning the vet for a last time... Hubsi has arthritis in both hind legs and could probably do with a hip replacement, but even if vets would do goat hip replacements at all, a general anaesthetic would not be safe in his age.
It doesn't bother him too much and doesn't seem to be painful as long as he's not trying to run but his walking looks a bit odd 

Change in feeds... also Hubsi likes it... well, would you want to eat the same stuff everyday? He loves the pygmy feed from Allen & Page  so that gets mixed in with the cobs, chaff etc.


----------

