# A Buying Nightmare...



## HoosierShadow

So I have to rant. I am kicking myself big time, and rightly so, I seriously am sick over it to be honest.

I contacted a breeder inquiring about a buck kid they had posted a pic on FB post where someone was looking for a buck. The breeder sent me more pics and a video - he looked great. I asked how old the video was and was told 10 days. I loved the pedigree, outstanding, and we were super excited to go get him after making a deal. 
Breeder was away at show, they are big breeders but I'd never had any dealings with them before, but had heard good things.

We go to get him yesterday, and he looks nothing like the pictures and video - nowhere near as nice, big hay belly, not as level and definitely not show quality. not knowing what to do we brought him home. He is 'ok' but not at all what we were expecting. 
On top of that, he has mites severely on his front feet and starting on his back end and scrotum. I feel so horrible for him because it's not his fault. He's just a baby, 3 months old, but not show quality. 
My goat friends that I've consulted with agree - he absolutely does not look like the same goat at all from the pics/video that I was sent - he was younger and much nicer. My very good neighbor who has goats came over and inspected him and agreed, for the $$ he is not nice. 

I asked breeder this morning if we can return for a refund. They said they typically do not take returns on bucks, and that we could exchange for something else, but they would be older and more expensive. I kindly messaged back that I would consider looking at them, but right now my kids/family are very discouraged and my kids do not have more $$ to spend. 

What do you guys think? I mean... I am not a big breeder, but if someone wasn't happy with a goat I sold I would tell them to bring it back especially if I sold it right away. If it had been a couple of weeks, and the animal was in poor condition, I might reconsider. 

I am so upset over this. I will refrain from posting who the breeder is or photos of the goat in case we can reach an agreement, but never in 10 years have we been so disappointed with a buck purchase.


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## bisonviewfarm

Oh no I'm so sorry. I hope this all gets worked out.  I'm the same as you I'd happily take something back if the buyer wasn't happy. But also not a big breeder


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## CCCSAW

Oh heck no. If he's not the one in the pictures he's not the one you thought you where buying. Where is the kid they showed you?


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## HoosierShadow

CCCSAW said:


> Oh heck no. If he's not the one in the pictures he's not the one you thought you where buying. Where is the kid they showed you?


The quality just isn't there  Same kid, but huge difference! He might be a nice buck later, but is not show quality, and we think he breaks behind the shoulders and is not as level as he was made out to look


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## CountyLineAcres

Oh no! I’m sorry to hear this.

This is a very a tricky situation. Biosecurity is a huge reason why many people will not allow the return of animals. Which is very understandable IMO. 

However, what exactly do they mean by “exchange”? Would they actually take the buck back?

Either way, I would take good quality pictures and videos of said buck ASAP to protect yourself.


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## NDinKY

That’s awful, I’m sorry you’re having to deal with that. I probably wouldn’t have taken him, and asked for a refund due to health issues if you’d put a deposit down. I can see why they wouldn’t take him back for biosecurity reasons once he left the farm.

If it was a bait and switch, they knew they were doing you dirty and they’re not likely to take him back. Hopefully they will work with you.


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## NDinKY

HoosierShadow said:


> The quality just isn't there  Same kid, but huge difference! He might be a nice buck later, but is not show quality, and we think he breaks behind the shoulders and is not as level as he was made out to look


You've really got to watch out in pictures. So much deception with creative clipping jobs, posing on unlevel ground, over stretching them, etc. The ones that kill me are the pics of bucklings peeing. I'm surprised they were able to cover things up in the video.


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## Jessica84

Oh boy. They are definitely in the wrong. I don’t see why people do that. I would rather not upsetting someone and wasting their day to look at a animal they would be unhappy with. But to be honest I probably would not take him back, and as stated because of biosecurity reasons. But I would have refunded any deposit if you had placed one or given a deal on something better. But it doesn’t sound like that is the breeders concern with giving the option to take him and sell a more expensive buck. It sounds like they got you hooked and if they take him back want it to be worth it. 
But is he not show quality because he needs some TLC or is he simply not show quality? I have seen some amazing turn arounds on some need TLC animals. If maybe he just needs some TLC it might just be worth it to hang onto him and give him some time rather then fight with this breeder or try and trade him in. Either way I am so very sorry for the whole situation.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks everyone, I've taken videos and pictures. I understand Biosecurity, but honestly it would make me laugh in this situation because I know they constantly are bringing in new goats, going to shows, and the well, I'll just leave it at that for now. 

I agree about the photo shopping. He didn't look photoshopped in the pics and he looked great in the videos, but the video and current are far from similar. I said we wanted show quality, I could have kept shopping and found something in our price range, I didn't have to have the pedigree and color. 

I agree Jessica - I don't understand the thought behind taking him back and trying to give me a more expensive buck. I don't want a more expensive buck. We want a show quality buck that is worth what we paid - not meaning on paper I don't care how many ennoblements are on the page if the goat isn't playing the part.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Wow, I am so sorry  
Personally, as a breeder, I work as honestly as I can because like my dad told me: "You can do 1 million jobs perfectly, but when you do 1 job wrong, that's all everyone will hear about"

Honestly, I say I would not have taken him, but if I was put in your position, I probably would have, because I try my hardest to be polite, even if that means biting my tongue. Usually, when I buy babies, they are pretty skinny, but I keep my mouth shut and just load em with Calf Manna when they get home. It gets annoying, but oh well, what're ya gonna do? 

I really don't have any info for you though! I feel so bad for you and your kids!


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## HoosierShadow

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Wow, I am so sorry
> Personally, as a breeder, I work as honestly as I can because like my dad told me: "You can do 1 million jobs perfectly, but when you do 1 job wrong, that's all everyone will hear about"
> 
> Honestly, I say I would not have taken him, but if I was put in your position, I probably would have, because I try my hardest to be polite, even if that means biting my tongue. Usually, when I buy babies, they are pretty skinny, but I keep my mouth shut and just load em with Calf Manna when they get home. It gets annoying, but oh well, what're ya gonna do?
> 
> I really don't have any info for you though! I feel so bad for you and your kids!


Thank you, I am the same way. I want people to be happy with what they buy from us. I think this guy could have potential, but I worry about him structurally and if he'll have a good strong topline and doesn't break behind the shoulders. I've had such great support from friends and here on TGS, I appreciate it. If we end up having to make him a project I will share pictures. I want to get him out and give him a good scrubbing bath tomorrow and trim his feet (I'll get before pictures), so if he does go back, he'll go back better than when I got him. I don't think we'll do an exchange. 
Once I know the outcome and if we are stuck with him, then I'll share pictures.


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## happybleats

Sounds like they were too busy to notice how he's gone down hill. They should be very interested in taking him back to make sure you were happy. Breeders will quickly loose future sales if they didnt work with unhappy buyers. I like that you took pictures and videos and got eye witnesses to confirm his poor quality. I really hope the seller does right by you.


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## Sfgwife

Oh no! I am so sorry. But always remember this..... when you go to possibly pick up an animal... if they are not what you saw pics and videos of and not what you wanted. You do NOT have to buy them.
;(. Do you feel badly for that? Absolutely. But if it is not what you want then it just isnt. 

That said. I hope for you all that this breeder does the right thing and refunds your money. Either takes the lil guy back or you keep him and just process him later. I understand the biosecurity but you said they constantly bring in new stock... so this should not be an issue with them.


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## toth boer goats

I agree, if I didn't like him when I seen him, I would politely say, I will have to pass on him and be on my way. 

It wasn't right of the breeder to give a false picture of this buck.
There is no reason to purchase something of which is not what was presented. You were not obligated to buy.

That said, I know this makes you feel worse. I am sorry this happened to you. 

I can understand why they will not take the goat back. However, telling you to buy one which is out if your price range, was a stupid thing to even say to you.

You can try to get him in better shape, then try to recoup some of your money and sell him. 
I agree, if his conformation is bad like you are explaining, those things usually do not correct. 

Word will get around and the breeder may regret doing this to you later on down the road.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yes, totally my mistake for bringing him home. He isn't horrible, but definitely not what we were expecting at all. I have not heard back from the breeder at all and after talking with some friends including Jessica, I think we may give him a chance, we can get him into shape, and see where we are - breed him to the does we intended him for, and if we don't like him enough... sell him. See what kids are like and sell them to recoup $$ if we don't want to keep any. I do think they have too much going on to look after each goat.

Apparently we now have a currently way over priced project with current condition.

My husband will be furious with my decision, but it is what it is...

He just turned 3 months old a week ago, and feet were in bad need of trimming. he needs groceries which I did expect that. I will run a fecal on him tonight.

This is what we were expecting...


















The night we brought him home 









Today. He is not awful. But not what we thought, his huge belly is going down a bit, but he's super awkward. I know a lot of it is growing stage, he has muscle, but needs groceries - I expected that part, but huge difference between the video especially and what is current.










Pre bath (dirty from applying Vaseline/Nustock the night we got him home).




































I forgot to get a 'clean' picture. I sprayed him down with Permethrin after scrubbing a bunch of scabs loose and soaking his legs. Blow dried, then applied Ivermectin pour on down the back, and on the legs, then lathered him in NuStock


















Good potential for muscling IMO, just needs the feed which I was told he needs to be fed up. I mean, I don't expect show condition, but huge difference between pics/video then add in the horrible mite issue which now I will treat the goats, and barn - we do deal with mites randomly, but never sold one with a mite issue that I was aware of.










So... this is where we are. Not horrible, needs TLC. Pedigree is amazing so we'll see what happens.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey..Im sorry for your disapointment. I dont like the videos/ pics all dressed up. Im sure his thick winter baby hair was alot of hus thickness. Now he is at an akward growth spurt. I have no doubts, in 30 days, he will look better than he ever did. He may not ever be the show king you wanted. But he carries the potential in him. Look at your does and see what his potential and your abilities will create. You have an amazing ability to put weight on your "babies" 
Thats why others & myself keep our possibles till they are 6 months. Thats about how long it takes to see whats really packed into that tiny frame. If you honestly wanted his bloodlines, you have them. Its a good year to have one that may not be show ready. There arent any shows right now
Give yourself some time. If he was there once, he will get their again.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Moers I greatly appreciate it. I will say, he has grown on me, especially after losing that crazy hay belly. He looked like a balloon. He's a bit sunken in but hasn't eaten his grain real well. I started giving him some of our feed today and he seems to love it. In fact, he doesn't want the feed he came with which is crazy because it's one of the best Boer goat feed in the country! Like.. he won't even eat our feed if it's mixed in with his so I have to separate it. Strange kid! I'm giving him probiotics daily, so hopefully that helps in case I can't get him to eat his feed. But then we have a whole bag of the feed. 
I honestly didn't expect him to be ready to go out and win a show, I think honestly I was upset with the massive belly, he didn't look nice and smooth from front to back, but most definitely the mites and long feet. He couldn't stand right on his feet because they were overgrown and curled under. The mites are severe, you can see the swelling. He did have hair on him in the video, but when he moved he looked stocky under the hair, and very level. IMO his back dips and I worry as he gets older he could start to break a little - praying I'm worrying for nothing. 
But the darn mites... he is favoring a foot because it hurts


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## Nigerian dwarf goat

Hey! I have those rubber boots!


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## CountyLineAcres

I actually like him! He isn’t perfect, but I think he has a lot of potential. Once he fills out, he should be something nice. The slight sickle hocks are what catches my eye more so than his topline. He could be going through a funky growth spurt. We have a couple 4 month olds coming out of one right now.

I am not sure if they washed and fluffed him in the pictures and video you were given, but I wouldn’t be surprised if so. Fluffy fat goats are what wins shows, unfortunately.

I’d give him a chance. Is he underweight or small for his age or just right? Hard to tell with pictures.


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## Sfgwife

I just cannot fathom selling anything that i KNOW i have not taken really good care of.... hooves and mites! Grrrrr! That makes me ANGRY for you. The last thing i do before anyone leaves here is ask if the buyer needs learn how to trim hooves... if so i show them on one foot and they do the other three. Or if they know how i trim in front of them. It usually only takes a few min for something so important to a goat. And the mites... there is just no excuse for that. Have the buyer come in two weeks for them so i can treat instead of sending a mite ridden baby to their new home and “infecting” the new owners place. I am just so sorry for you! He is a handsome lil guy.... to me a non boer person anyway. .


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## HoosierShadow

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Hey! I have those rubber boots!


Thanks! My friend told me about them so I ordered them for my daughter, she loves them!



CountyLineAcres said:


> I actually like him! He isn't perfect, but I think he has a lot of potential. Once he fills out, he should be something nice. The slight sickle hocks are what catches my eye more so than his topline. He could be going through a funky growth spurt. We have a couple 4 month olds coming out of one right now.
> 
> I am not sure if they washed and fluffed him in the pictures and video you were given, but I wouldn't be surprised if so. Fluffy fat goats are what wins shows, unfortunately.
> 
> I'd give him a chance. Is he underweight or small for his age or just right? Hard to tell with pictures.


Thank You am happy to hear your perspective on him as I love your goats! My husband is not happy with my decision (fuming to say the least), but it is what it is, and he's here. My mistake, hopefully something I can fix and I will never make a deal like that again. I just thought with such a big reputation as a breeder we were getting a good deal.
I do worry about the legs and wonder if it's a growth thing. He tends to stand more like that first side shot on the stand, the last side shot he was definitely not standing very well, was fussing prior to the picture. He is not lead trained, so he likes to plant those back feet. I'll try to get some 'natural pose' pictures at some point or video.

I am not sure about the washing/fluffing either. I definitely am not a fan of doing that as means to make them look bigger. I'm okay with washing and blowing them out for a picture so long as they look natural. I do think because the video was taken same time as the pictures that it was winter hair and video/pics are older than what they said/thought.



Sfgwife said:


> I just cannot fathom selling anything that i KNOW i have not taken really good care of.... hooves and mites! Grrrrr! That makes me ANGRY for you. The last thing i do before anyone leaves here is ask if the buyer needs learn how to trim hooves... if so i show them on one foot and they do the other three. Or if they know how i trim in front of them. It usually only takes a few min for something so important to a goat. And the mites... there is just no excuse for that. Have the buyer come in two weeks for them so i can treat instead of sending a mite ridden baby to their new home and "infecting" the new owners place. I am just so sorry for you! He is a handsome lil guy.... to me a non boer person anyway. .


It's frustrating for sure. We do deal with mites randomly, but I normally always check them right before I list them for sale, or the day I list them. Once in a while I sell a doe that needs some TLC - price reflects it and I go over it with buyer prior to them coming here TLC as in a doe that has just weaned kids, off of feed to dry up and just needed groceries. Some does do great and bounce back on grass/hay diet, and others don't kind of thing. We just sold one like that. She didn't have any worm loads, but had mild cocci increase, so I asked buyer (my friend) to wait a week before taking her home so I could treat her. She also had a little bit of hoof rot and was sore - my husband did not trim enough foot away so I also got that corrected within that week (still having issues trimming adult feet due to my arm bothering me, but it's slowly getting stronger).


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## HoosierShadow

I forgot to add - he seems to be fine as far as size for his age. I want to say I was told he is 65lbs so weight is fine for age (3 months & 1 week old). Maybe a little short bodied, but I think a lot of that is how deep and wide his belly was.


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## CountyLineAcres

HoosierShadow said:


> Thank You am happy to hear your perspective on him as I love your goats! My husband is not happy with my decision (fuming to say the least), but it is what it is, and he's here. My mistake, hopefully something I can fix and I will never make a deal like that again. I just thought with such a big reputation as a breeder we were getting a good deal.
> I do worry about the legs and wonder if it's a growth thing. He tends to stand more like that first side shot on the stand, the last side shot he was definitely not standing very well, was fussing prior to the picture. He is not lead trained, so he likes to plant those back feet. I'll try to get some 'natural pose' pictures at some point or video.
> 
> I am not sure about the washing/fluffing either. I definitely am not a fan of doing that as means to make them look bigger. I'm okay with washing and blowing them out for a picture so long as they look natural. I do think because the video was taken same time as the pictures that it was winter hair and video/pics are older than what they said/thought.


Thank you so much! Your goats are absolutely outstanding. I love seeing your pictures!

If it makes you (and your husband) feel better, we have been there, done that. We've been burned on many, MANY goats which is extremely unfortunate to say the least. However, we've learned to dust ourselves off and make the most of it! We have our own little list of breeders that we will never buy from - both well-known and smaller scale.

Yes, growing kids can do all sorts of weird things and look absolutely hideous before blossoming into something stunning. I feel like a month from now, with your TLC, he will look fantastic. Cross him with some does you think will compliment him well, and you may be surprised by what you get! He's still a very young buckling. Stay positive!


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## goatblessings

I would see how he does. I know practically nothing about boers, however I've seen my own kids go through some crazy growing phases - sometimes until they are 2-3 depending upon genetics. With your care, you may be surprised in a couple of months. I personally don't take back kids for biosecurity reasons, but spend quite a bit of time with the buyer and make sure they go over their goat - and answer any questions they may have. I typically spend at least 30 minutes with my clients.


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## Goatzrule

I see what you mean with the photos, now you can only hope for the best. 
Ive been there and have even been burned by a popular breeder who used to be on here. Im not sure much about meat goats so I don't have any advice.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks so much you guys, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate it. We will give him a chance. My husband is not happy, but I'll get him on board. I feel he has an excellent genetic package least so maybe if we can we can get some daughters out of him to get some stronger female genetics and on paper too (fingers crossed for both!). Even a homegrown buckling would make my daughter happy as we have yet to use a home grown buck and this is 10 years of raising goats for us! Never had a buying incident like this with a buck before.

CountyLineAcres - You are welcome  It's so sad that there are big breeders willing to burn people like this. Just takes all the fun out of it.

Goatblessings - I can understand the biosecurity in many cases, but not in this situation as there were hundreds of goats, and many going to different shows, I'm sure lots of does coming in from outside farms for breeding, etc. I do not like bringing in new goats unless I trust the breeder, but I just assumed I could trust in this instance. Definitely makes my list of breeders to avoid.

So the little guy is doing okay, but he is so sore  I tried to be gentle getting the scabs off, but the back of his foot is very sore and raw. I went to take video to show you guys before putting him in the stall for the night and this is how I found him  
Once I put him in his stall I put triple antibiotic ointment on his foot so hopefully that helps, I'll check on him in a little while. He's eating our feed pretty well, giving him a little at a time, so hopefully it doesn't upset his rumen.


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## NDinKY

He’s a cute little guy! I don’t know anything about Boer conformation but hopefully he matures quite nicely.


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## Sfgwife

Awww poor lil dude! I wonder if a soothing essential oil like lavender might help the soreness.


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## ksalvagno

He is cute!


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## CountyLineAcres

Poor thing! I can’t wait to see what he looks like when he’s all healed up!


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## Jessica84

Poor guy  I do think he is looking better already though. I think if anyone can get him to his full potential it will be you. I do hope he matures into a very nice boy for you. It is so discouraging when your so excited to add something to your herd and hope it’s going to do nothing but great things and then your disappointed. It just kinda takes the fun right out of it. But I am defiantly going to be bugging you wanting to see the amazing things you do with this guy


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## HoosierShadow

Aww thanks  I will most definitely keep updating and sharing pics as he settles in. I feel so bad that his leg is hurting so bad. A friend gave me a good treatment to try that will kill the mites and sooth his skin so we'll do that tomorrow.
We'll get him on the halter daily so we can start getting him lead trained. I am determined unless he goes backwards, that we will be taking him to a show in nearly 7 weeks. 
Think it's possible? 

I am going to suggest the name 'Max' to the kids tomorrow, we also need to get his registration application sent in tomorrow so we can get a # for him.


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## Moers kiko boars

I think you will be very very pleased with this little guy in a month. His winter hair was backbrushed and sprayed. He is thin haired now, so he looks smaller. But he has a really nice baby shape. He is not that old, so his legs are still lengthening. 
I say give him a chance. But dont do anything with that past owner. They dont appear to be honest.


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## toth boer goats

He has potential.

He looks to of been a month old the older pics before you got him. 
It seems as if they just let him go and forgot about him. 
He may of gotten bullied out of the creep feeder, as to why he changed so dramatically. 

I see a weird swelling in the armpit. elbow area on the side he is limping.
It may be a CD&T vaccine reaction, but that in itself can be painful, if it is huge. 

He may have a secondary infection from the mites. 
Giving SQ antibiotics may help heal that. 
Banamine for pain and continue mite treatment. 
Give benadryl for mite reaction for few days. 

Use Nu-stock every 3 days until healed, and the pouron when it is time again.


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## HoosierShadow

The little guy didn't seem to feel very good today, temp was good, but was only nibbling on feed and hay and just acting like he wasn't feeling good. We gave probiotics and b-complex, started him on Sulfadimethoxine for 5 days as cocci prevention since I wasn't able to get a fecal sample (totally forgot was a busy day) and just kept an eye on him. Tonight I noticed a little bit of nasal discharge, clear, and a bit of a cough and raspy sound, so we started him on PenG as a precaution. He was nibbling hay when I came in and he'd eaten a tiny bit of his feed.
Fingers crossed he feels better tomorrow.

Pam - I didn't find any swelling or anything under his leg? I can double check tomorrow. The only bumps/knots on him are around the top of his shoulders, a few tiny bumps I'm guessing either were bug bites or maybe old injection sites, but skin looks normal.

I do think he is also lonely, he perks up when he is near the other goats, so once I feel he is healthy and safe enough to be around our goats, I'll figure something out so he can have a buddy.


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## CountyLineAcres

Just be careful. Being on coccidia treatment and receiving antibiotics simultaneously will be hard on his gut. Keep up with those probiotics. Hope he feels better soon!


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks that was my big worry which is one reason I wanted to do penG once a day vs 2x a day. He looks okay, has a little bit of clear nasal discharge, but is depressed. The pen we have him in during the day, he just wants to lay down in the corner nearest the big bucks pen. I just can't risk having him in with the January buck & wether so it's a bummer. I thought about letting him 'meet' the month old kids later at feeding time and see if he perks up. We rearranged the part of the barn he is in, so he'll be in a middle stall with the young buck & wether on one side, and 2 yearling does on the other at night so he is around other goats but can't get in with them. 
We are doing the probiotics & B-Complex early in the day, and Sulfamed in the evenings. I NEED to do his fecal tonight, I worry about cocci, but not too much other worms as he has great color, and guessing by his feet being so clean he probably wasn't out on pasture.


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## toth boer goats

Secondary infection would be from the mites burrowing deep in. 
You would see a bit of swelling going on with it.

Poor dude.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Pam! That has definitely been a worry. He seems to be doing much better, still grinds his teeth now and then when he feels itchy, but he has perked up and looks happier. We also rearranged his side of the barn, divided it into 3 stalls so we could get 2 yearlings back in the barn at night so they could have their feed and hay (they are spoiled brats...). He is between them and the January buck & wether.

I got him out on the halter today and he did great, before he would plant his feet and not move. This evening I got him to move forward and make a few laps behind a doe that my daughter has started to work with.

Terrible late evening pics, but here he is relaxing.


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## Moers kiko boars

I think hes a sweetheart. I just see a young buck going through his akward stage. He is beautiful, and I think he will blossum in a couple of months.


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## HoosierShadow

Moers kiko boars said:


> I think hes a sweetheart. I just see a young buck going through his akward stage. He is beautiful, and I think he will blossum in a couple of months.


Thank you, I agree I think he is going to shape up. He is already looking better. I think I am more upset with the condition he was in when we picked him up. He had a massive belly, like a balloon, the mites, the hooves.


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## Moers kiko boars

Im sure you were. But his confirmation is still nice. True hes not as thick in appearance . But hes not all covered in thick hair. And looking at your twin bucks. Does & kidds...:great: This little guy WILL NOT be little long. Hang on, once he starts feeling at home. Hes going to get huge! Stress is so hard on these young ones
Hes had a BIG CHANGE! Plus..hes been sucked on by those parasites..poor little one. Hes in Great Hands now...oh..and hang onto your heart...:inlove: If you havent lost it already!


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## HoosierShadow

Oh yeah he knows he's already got me wrapped around a hoof lol, he's so sweet and really starting to settle in and get used to us and his routine. He wants so badly to be with the January buck & wether. Eventually the wether will be his buddy. 
He's eating better and had a good day. He weighs 69.9lbs and was born 3/2 so I don't think that is too bad, he's just slightly lighter most of our boys were at that age. 

Now we need to find a name for him. My daughter had me submit a name, but I completely forgot to look and see if they'd already used it - yep... so we have to find another name. I'm drawing a blank. Still no barn name yet either.


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## CountyLineAcres

HoosierShadow said:


> Now we need to find a name for him. My daughter had me submit a name, but I completely forgot to look and see if they'd already used it - yep... so we have to find another name. I'm drawing a blank. Still no barn name yet either.


I'm dying to know what the name is! Is it something super common?


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## HoosierShadow

CountyLineAcres said:


> I'm dying to know what the name is! Is it something super common?


Mission Impossible. My neighbors son suggested it and she loved it but realized after sending off the form that I should've checked and sure enough it's been used.


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## CountyLineAcres

HoosierShadow said:


> Mission Impossible. My neighbors son suggested it and she loved it but realized after sending off the form that I should've checked and sure enough it's been used.


Awwwe! That's too bad. I guess he and the breeder think alike lol. You could always save it for a son of his in the future with your own prefix! That way you don't have to worry about a duplicate name.


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## HoosierShadow

CountyLineAcres said:


> Awwwe! That's too bad. I guess he and the breeder think alike lol. You could always save it for a son of his in the future with your own prefix! That way you don't have to worry about a duplicate name.


Yep she definitely could! So now she wants to go with one of my ideas and I don't see it being used - Outlaw's Reward. We did a Hank Williams Jr. song theme on some of our kids this year (Ain't Misbehavin', Attitude Adjustment, Chasing Yesterday, Ramblin' Man, etc.), so we'll try to submit this one for use and even though he isn't a home bred, it would still go with our name theme this year. 
Outlaw's Reward is one of my favorite songs - the live version performed with Travis Tritt & Marty Stewart (Waylon Jennings dedication at the Opry). I grew up listening to country music, and thought it would be a fun theme.


----------



## MellonFriend

HoosierShadow said:


> Mission Impossible. My neighbors son suggested it and she loved it but realized after sending off the form that I should've checked and sure enough it's been used.


You could call him Ethan Hunt.  :2c:


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## CountyLineAcres

I love Outlaw’s Reward!


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## HoosierShadow

Thank You! I was hoping we would get to name one Outlaw's Reward, so it makes me happy. ABGA is putting it in my daughters file for when they get his paperwork done. 
Now to get my kids to give me registered names for their 4 May babies so I can get them done. Hoping to take them to a show next month. We sold most of the young goats my kids were going to show, and have a couple that are not show correct  (hoping this guy could fix that issue with those girls mamas).

The new guy still doesn't have a barn name. He was so full of himself this morning, it was a cool night in the upper 50s so everyone was full of it. He wants someone to play with so badly, and doesn't understand he can't play with me. I tried to get video of him running around and being silly, but at least this shows he is perky, active and much happier  He knows which stall is his which is so funny because he'll run out, bounce around and go right back to his stall. He hasn't taken up to my son or daughter yet, so he runs to his stall if he thinks they are going to get him lol. 
Next weekend our last January buckling is scheduled to leave, so the wether that is in with him will become this guys buddy.

Don't mind the mess, I was just starting to clean stalls, and let him run around vs. putting him straight into his day time pen behind the barn (next to the January boys and across from the big bucks).


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## toth boer goats

He is looking good and feeling good, LOL.


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## CountyLineAcres

Lol he is just so cute!!


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## goatblessings

Such an adorable guy!


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## Moers kiko boars

Hes going to be a fun boy! I like his personality. He is already looking better. Even with that baby face!


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## NDinKY

He’s super cute!


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks  You guys are making me feel better about taking him on lol! He's definitely my little shadow now. I love that he follows me around.

Okay, so today I scrubbed his front legs with soap and tried to get some of the nustock off, I do think it's irritating his skin and causing an issue. His front left is very puffy, and sore. I spent an hour scrubbing scabs off of all his legs, then sprayed all 4 legs thoroughly with Chlorhexidine. 
Tomorrow I'm planning to shave his legs. I was going to do it tonight, but felt it was too much stress on him (and my neck/arm). 
If the swelling is still bad tomorrow, do you guys think I should just continue with Chlorhexidine spray for another 24 hours or consider putting him on PenG? we started to give him the PenG, but my husband said he didn't need it so we only did 1 shot (bad I know), but worried too about overloading him since he just finished up Sulfadimethoxine 5 day treatment.

Other than the swollen leg, he seems to be doing great. He knows which stall is his at night, and where his day time pen is at. It's funny because he LOVES his stall lol.

Terrible cell phone pics from this evening, but shows the swelling which is worse than before, but again I think nustock might have been irritating it, so got as much off as I could, that stuff is worse than glue.














































The white foot is looking and feeling much better. Worst feet are the front left/red and the back right. 









Learning to be tied up. Lousy cell phone pics, ugh, I think a setting got changed, everything is wide angle I'll have to fix it. Eventually I'll get the real camera out...


















This made me laugh, he was trying to watch me over the halter lol


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## Jessica84

He already looks better! He looks way more attentive and looks like he is already filling out more. I knew you could do it! I think he is really growing on me too and I only see him threw pictures lol


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## toth boer goats

Remember before, I had mentioned secondary infection from having mites bad?
Start antibiotics, a full schedule, give benadryl for the allergic reaction of the mites for a few days. 

Have you put Ivomec pouron directly on the bad area's, then a few days later, put on Nu-stock every 3 days. 

I don't think Nu-stock caused the swelling, unless you have been putting Nu-stock on daily instead of every 3 days? If so, it is high in Sulfur and can be irritating.


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## HoosierShadow

Jessica84 said:


> He already looks better! He looks way more attentive and looks like he is already filling out more. I knew you could do it! I think he is really growing on me too and I only see him threw pictures lol


Thanks I appreciate it! He's definitely acting so much happier. Hoping he'll get more cover on him to match the belly lol. He weighed 69.9lbs, so we'll weigh him every 7-10 days when we weigh the May kids. I have not done a fecal yet, but we did do cocci prevention (would have done it anyway with moving stress), eyelids are dark red, but want to be sure. I think he was probably in a barn and not out on pasture per his feet being so clean (and the way they were overgrown- no dirt).



toth boer goats said:


> Remember before, I had mentioned secondary infection from having mites bad?
> Start antibiotics, a full schedule, give benadryl for the allergic reaction of the mites for a few days.
> 
> Have you put Ivomec pouron directly on the bad area's, then a few days later, put on Nu-stock every 3 days.
> 
> I don't think Nu-stock caused the swelling, unless you have been putting Nu-stock on daily instead of every 3 days? If so, it is high in Sulfur and can be irritating.


Yep I agree about secondary infection. I was going to see if any change this evening before putting him on antibiotics, I did Chlorhexidine spray, would that not help? If not then we'd definitely do the injectable, just trying not to poke him if we could treat it topically.

I did do Ivermectin Pour On 6 days ago, and rubbed a little on his legs and under the dew claws, I do think that aided in irritating his already cracked/raw skin. I did a mix of NuStock/Diaper rash ointment in the evenings, very little Nu stock, so that's why I thought the Nustock is irritating it. I usually have 0 issues using Nustock like that. But then I've never had one with mites this severe. that's why I washed his legs yesterday to get as much stuff off as possible wit clean and clear shampoo (mild/non irritating), blow dried and did Chlorhexidine. 
Poor little guy. He's a trooper though.


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## Moers kiko boars

While you are working on one leg. Wrap the other legs with a cold/ frozen towel. Just to cool off the swollen area? It just helps.to reduce the inflammatory effects of rubbing irritation.
And I agree with jessica84!!!


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## NDinKY

With my buck who got the mites so bad, then secondary infection I used the oxytetracycline. It worked well. In people at least, true cellulitis usually needs systemic antibiotics. 

If the NuStock is irritating his skin, what about using plain Vaseline? It will soothe the skin and may help further smother the mites.


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## toth boer goats

Chlorhexidine won't do a lot.
If there are any mites at all alive, they need to be smothered. 
Nustock does that. 

You can also use banamine for a few days, which also help with swelling and pain or as needed. 

Nuflor is a good choice if you have it.


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## HoosierShadow

So feeling his leg tonight - it doesn't feel puffy, but is back to feeling rough and scabby which seems to make it appear really swollen? The skin isn't as red or irritated but again, skin is very rough/scabby. I soaked his legs in Permethrin yesterday which has aided in getting rid of mites - I've had good success with it in the mite fight (lol).

I was thinking I should try the Ear Mite cream that I've used in the past, but reading the label on line it states not to use on irritated skin or cuts/wounds. 
https://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/products/ear-mite-killer-lotion-dogs-cats-horses

I was going to see if he is improved more in the morning and if not then start antibiotics. I can get Nuflor from my neighbor, otherwise I have PenG. I prefer not to use LA200 if possible as my bottle looks weird (dark/black), and seems the last few times I've used LA200 even with a new bottle, it's left a weird knot that turned into a sore? I wonder if anyone else has experienced this?

Any other ideas on soothing skin in case the Nustock is irritating it? I can try Nustock with Vaseline instead of the diaper rash ointment I was using.

Another random video from this evening. Still sore on that foot, but the skin doesn't look as 'mad' just feels very dry and scaly.


----------



## toth boer goats

Yes, LA200 is hard on them and can leave a lump on those her are more sensitive to it. 

Maybe try organic extra virgin coconut oil. It has healing properties and is an oil to smother any mites left behind.
Put it on 2 x a day until healed.


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## Moers kiko boars

Ive never tried it, but a person on this TGS said they use vetRx for mites. Apply it on the skin. Could that be used?


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## HoosierShadow

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, LA200 is hard on them and can leave a lump on those her are more sensitive to it.
> 
> Maybe try organic extra virgin coconut oil. It has healing properties and is an oil to smother any mites left behind.
> Put it on 2 x a day until healed.


Thanks, I used to have good luck with LA200, I wonder what is going on with it? The last 2 bottles I've gotten have not been very good and had weird results.

Question on the coconut oil, do you think it would draw flies? I'm worried about flies bothering him as he either has some random spots of mites that were coming up on his sides/neck, or they are old fly bites. It's hard to tell if they are new ones. Very random, but I'm keeping an eye on them. I am spraying him with fly spray and rubbing it in but it's so hard to get a good spray without breaking the bank. I may end up going back to using Permethrin/Skin So Soft mixture. The flies aren't horrible, but seem to be a few more of them around his daytime pen.



Moers kiko boars said:


> Ive never tried it, but a person on this TGS said they use vetRx for mites. Apply it on the skin. Could that be used?


I've never used vetRx but have heard it's good stuff. I can't remember which vetRx product you'd use for this situation?


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## Moers kiko boars

The one we were talking about is the poultry one . You put it up the goats nose for congestion. They used it for mite/lice control. They said it killed them.


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## toth boer goats

You can set out a little bit in a jar lid and see if flies attract to it.


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## HoosierShadow

Moers kiko boars said:


> The one we were talking about is the poultry one . You put it up the goats nose for congestion. They used it for mite/lice control. They said it killed them.


I'll have to look for it! Thanks! I know I've heard of people using it.



toth boer goats said:


> You can set out a little bit in a jar lid and see if flies attract to it.


That's a good idea, I didn't think of that lol! I also forgot to look at the store for it today! 
His leg looks slightly better. I am going to put him on the stand tomorrow and go over him and see if we're making progress. It'll be 8 days from Ivermectin Pour On treatment. I may reapply tomorrow instead of Thurs, and put some on his legs except the one that is swollen - I'm afraid it will irritate it. I will look for the coconut oil or Moers suggestion of VetRx but may not be going out for a couple of days - I did all of my errand running the last 2 days. 
Or.. try the Vaseline and Nustock every other day? I did put some on yesterday morning.


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## HoosierShadow

Ok so the swelling is gone from his leg, still looks puffy but that is just from the dry skin and scabs that have formed yet again. He has some scabs on his chest going up the underside of his neck and some random spots - I'd been keeping an eye on him in case it was fly bites. But I am suspecting mites.
I retreated with Ivermectin Pour On down his back, and put some randomly on 3 legs, but not on the leg that is the worst so it doesn't irritate his skin.
I mixed Nustock and Vaseline (my usual treatment) and lathered all 4 legs and chest with it.

I sprayed the rest of him down with Bronco fly spray.

I'm not sure what else I can do to treat aggressively? I have to go to the bank later, so I may see if the local horse supply store still has that ear mite cream and after a couple of days of the Vaseline/Nustock to loosen scabs, I can clean the leg off and apply the Ear mite cream. 
Or see if a store in town happens to have the Vet Rx. My only issue looking at VetRx is it's only a 2oz. bottle for $10, I have a lot of goat to cover and need to be mindful of what I am spending.


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## NicoleV

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but have you tried treating the mites with injectable ivermectin 1% vs the pour on you said you tried again?

I just went through a mite issue with one of my goats and learned the hard way that the dosage has to be correct otherwise you won't get a result. I had a goat about 120-130lbs that always gets mites every winter. This year it was worse than before and she was even getting dandruff that caused her hair to fall out and get so thin I was worried she wasnt staying warm enough. She looked terrible and I felt so bad. I dosed her with 5cc injectable ivermectin every ten days for a total of three times. That was the dosage according to what I found on the internet of 1-2cc per 50lbs and I was leaning on the high side. Well guess what, nothing happened. The mites just laughed at me and I wasted 15cc of ivermectin and the poor goat wasn't any better! And then I thought shoot, maybe my ivermectin is old and I tried to get more, but it was hard to get because of Corona virus. So last resort I increased the dose to 6cc and went through the whole schedule again of doing it for three rounds every ten days. This time it worked! What a difference that extra cc made!

So long story short, maybe try the injectable version. And make sure the dosage is correct and you have an accurate weight for the goat. That may have been my mistake the whole time actually, but I learned the hard way.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks NicoleV! Yep you really have to dose it correctly. I haven't used the injectable in many years so I can't recall the dosage, but I have it in my goat binder.
Honestly, I think I am trying to rush the progress. Talking with a friend today it has only been about 10 days since we started treating him. I'm just so used to fast results - patience is not my thing in these situations lol
I do have a scale so that I have correct weight/dosage. He's getting a little extra Ivermectin Pour On as I put it down the back, then some extra on his legs. I try not to use the injectable unless last resort which thankfully have not had to do - last time I used it was in 2013 and thought I'd killed a doe, she had a horrible reaction to it, so much so I stopped using it. So hopefully this guy gets cleared up soon.
We do deal with mites off and on year round, I've just never had one this severe. 

Leaning towards calling him Max as my kids have made no attempt to name him. My daughter worked with him on the halter today for the first time (usually I bring him out when she's training one of her other goats), he did really well for her. 

Today he weighed in at 75.4lbs and I think is 15 weeks old so I feel he isn't too far from where I'd want him to be. Our boys have had no mite issues, and fed well so it's not fair to compare him to them since we don't know how he has been raised.


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## HoosierShadow

Thought I'd do another update. Okay, so his leg is back to being extremely scabby and irritated, not swollen, but it's sore. Gut feeling is, Nustock is possibly irritating this leg. So, I went to the local horse supply store and picked up a bottle of their locally made Iodine Medicated shampoo w/Aloe. I've not had a lot of luck with mite related issues and the tea tree oil shampoos in the past so I wanted something different. I'm getting ready to go out and wash/scrub his legs with this shampoo, get him dried and use Chlorhexidine for a few days and see if we get anywhere. I just did the Ivermectin Pour On treatment yesterday, and I do know I need to give it time, but darn it patience is not my strong suit in this situation. But I do feel this leg is not getting better other than not being swollen/puffy just very dry and scabby/scales. 
I did apply some more Nustock/Vaseline this morning - trying to get things loosened up, so we'll get it all washed off and see if we can get some scabs off.

Otherwise, he seems to be doing really good. He was bouncing around the barn while we were cleaning stalls, he's so silly. 
Does are locked in the back today, so he ventured out into their pen for a bit to look around, then even went over near the temporary gate setup for the moms w/babies/young does that are in the front. That is the furthest he's felt comfortable leaving the barn.

Here he is this morning. Silly guy had an oops moment there on the panel (lol dork), but it irritated his leg.


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## ksalvagno

I hope he works out well for you.


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## toth boer goats

Good luck, hope something works soon.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks I appreciate it! We'll see how he is in the morning, if no improvement over the weekend I am going to consult with the vet to see if he has any suggestions on getting it cleared up, but hopefully I won't have to have him out here until we need health papers for a show next month.
I think this is just going to take time to clear up. He has some raw places on the back of his back legs just below the hocks and his left rear leg is very sore. It kind of looks like the fungus that one of our does had a few months ago when she had mites, it wasn't anywhere near this bad. I used the Chlorhexidine spray in the evenings and Dr. Naylor's Hoof & Heal in the mornings, but no way I am putting Dr. Naylor's on him that stuff burns (but it's good stuff!). 
Fingers crossed this works!


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## GoofyGoat

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> Hey! I have those rubber boots!


Me too lol 

Have you tried ST-37 on him? It's good for all kinds of wounds, I used it on Merlins scrotum this winter whe he had mites..before I used the nustock and it helped. I got mine off Amazon but some pharmacies still carry it and it's been around forever. It works great for humans too.


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## HoosierShadow

GoofyGoat said:


> Me too lol
> 
> Have you tried ST-37 on him? It's good for all kinds of wounds, I used it on Merlins scrotum this winter whe he had mites..before I used the nustock and it helped. I got mine off Amazon but some pharmacies still carry it and it's been around forever. It works great for humans too.


No, I've honestly never heard of that before? I've started antibiotics, but seems to make it worse so stopped. Nustock and/or Nustock/Vaseline or Nustock/Diaper rash ointment seems to make it worse so we are ruling those out of his treatment. So far the only thing I've found that seems to possibly be helping is Chlorhexidine. 
We scrubbed his feet/legs yesterday with the Iodine medicated shampoo, and this morning they look a little better. The worst foot/leg looks slightly better. I sprayed all 4 legs with Chlorhexidine again this morning. He was bouncing, playing and being silly through the barn when we were cleaning this morning so he seems to be feeling good.


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## toth boer goats

(thumbup)


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## Tanya

He is looking like he can become a looker. Be patient with him. He needs tlc and he knows who his new mom is. 
He trusts you and likes the other goats.


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## GoofyGoat

HoosierShadow said:


> No, I've honestly never heard of that before? I've started antibiotics, but seems to make it worse so stopped. Nustock and/or Nustock/Vaseline or Nustock/Diaper rash ointment seems to make it worse so we are ruling those out of his treatment. So far the only thing I've found that seems to possibly be helping is Chlorhexidine.
> We scrubbed his feet/legs yesterday with the Iodine medicated shampoo, and this morning they look a little better. The worst foot/leg looks slightly better. I sprayed all 4 legs with Chlorhexidine again this morning. He was bouncing, playing and being silly through the barn when we were cleaning this morning so he seems to be feeling good.


It's a great first aid spray that is advertised mostly for oral problems but, My grandma used it for everything and I do too. I've used it on my dogs hot spots, campfire burns, scrapes, cuts ..like I said just about everything. Merlins scrotum got raw last fall and he really objected to the nustock so I tried spraying it on then letting it dry and then applying the nustock and it was fine. He healed up pretty quickly after.
The ingredients are pretty benign but effective...just thought it might help your new boy.


----------



## HoosierShadow

Tanya said:


> He is looking like he can become a looker. Be patient with him. He needs tlc and he knows who his new mom is.
> He trusts you and likes the other goats.


Thanks! He's settled in well, and I really like how he is looking, and he's definitely my buddy now  I love that he trusts me, but hope he learns to trust my husband and kids. I feel so bad for them and him when they go to grab him and he runs away or runs and hides behind me lol. But I make a point to baby talk him, give him lots of rubs and scratches, and just enjoy spending time with him.



GoofyGoat said:


> It's a great first aid spray that is advertised mostly for oral problems but, My grandma used it for everything and I do too. I've used it on my dogs hot spots, campfire burns, scrapes, cuts ..like I said just about everything. Merlins scrotum got raw last fall and he really objected to the nustock so I tried spraying it on then letting it dry and then applying the nustock and it was fine. He healed up pretty quickly after.
> The ingredients are pretty benign but effective...just thought it might help your new boy.


I will definitely be considering this! I need to get some pictures to show what I am dealing with. It's bad and I just don't know what to do, I'm so afraid of making it even worse. he doesn't seem to mind the Chlorhexidine spray, but worry even it might irritate it? I've never seen anything like this before  He looked pretty decent after I cleaned him up the first couple of times, and feel like we've taken 2 steps backwards. I truly feel the Nustock was the culprit in that. I'll try to get pictures before I do any further treatments.

My daughter and her friend said we should call him Max.... So this guy's barn name will be Max


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## Jessica84

He he is looking so much better! Great job! I look at him and really like him now.
Defiantly work on him trusting your husband and kids. Lamar, my wild boy who I have been working with to learn that I’m not going to eat him alive fully trusts me now. I decided to just put the bucks in with the girls a little early because I had the time and help. Anyways he was such a good boy until Keith came over to help me. I had Lamar on a long lasso rope. He freaked when keith got close and wrapped the rope around both of us. I am sporting a beautiful bruised rope burn across my back at the moment. So we will be working on learning humans in general are not going to kill you!


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## Tanya

Jessica84 said:


> He he is looking so much better! Great job! I look at him and really like him now.
> Defiantly work on him trusting your husband and kids. Lamar, my wild boy who I have been working with to learn that I'm not going to eat him alive fully trusts me now. I decided to just put the bucks in with the girls a little early because I had the time and help. Anyways he was such a good boy until Keith came over to help me. I had Lamar on a long lasso rope. He freaked when keith got close and wrapped the rope around both of us. I am sporting a beautiful bruised rope burn across my back at the moment. So we will be working on learning humans in general are not going to kill you!


Are goats generally scared of humans? Destiny only likes me n the girls. She shys away from my sister allot. He is handsome. He will be great.


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## Heart of the Matter Farm

At work we sometimes use coat defense. It is for horses but it is great for goats that have mites. It helps to loosen the scabs and even helps to keep if from spreading. And sometimes we will put Eprinex pour on directly on the mites and rub it in.


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## Jessica84

Tanya said:


> Are goats generally scared of humans? Destiny only likes me n the girls. She shys away from my sister allot. He is handsome. He will be great.


No. But he came from a big ranch in Illinois and lived in a huge pasture. The only time he had much human contact he was tattooed, blood drawn and shoved in a trailer to make the long haul to California. So he is still trying to figure things out. Now I do have some that just flat out despise me and would rather me not touch them but once I get my hands on them they know I won and they have to deal with whatever I'm going to do to them.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey you..Kentucky Derby in September..Preakness in Oct. Are you at the Belmont today?
Everytime I see him..he looks better & better. I love the videos. He is such a ham.. He has you right where he wants you..mom! Lol lol As far as the.mites go. Soak that foot in an ice water bucket/ while he feeds and at least about 5 minutes. Helps take out the swelling/ drowns any mites left. Then apply A&D ointment. It will soothe & smother the remaining pests.


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## HoosierShadow

There are a lot of goats that are wild and not handled or just do not like people or being messed with. We have a small enough herd that we handle them from birth and try to make all of ours as friendly as possible so they are easy to take care of and not chasing them around stressing them and ourselves out in the process. Most of ours know their names, even the May babies are learning their names.



Moers kiko boars said:


> Hey you..Kentucky Derby in September..Preakness in Oct. Are you at the Belmont today?
> Everytime I see him..he looks better & better. I love the videos. He is such a ham.. He has you right where he wants you..mom! Lol lol As far as the.mites go. Soak that foot in an ice water bucket/ while he feeds and at least about 5 minutes. Helps take out the swelling/ drowns any mites left. Then apply A&D ointment. It will soothe & smother the remaining pests.


Oh I wish I could cover the races, but I"m in KY and still can't go to the tracks here  The man that runs the website I work for was able to shoot at Belmont yesterday and said it was such an eerie day with empty grandstand. I live about 15-20 minutes from Keeneland, and there will be 4 days of racing next month and still no media access  I don't know how they are going to do Derby if we're only 2 months away and still not allowing any spectators or media at the tracks? It's so wrong IMO, no reason I can not go and do my job, all I need is a bathroom and a place to stand between races for shade/cover from rain in between races, although when I shoot dirt races, I have to stay across the track, because once the tractors harrow, you aren't supposed to cross. So rain/shine we'd be stuck across the track. I miss it  I am also so aggravated with our Governor picking and choosing what opens as if media coverage is not a job for many people, it's ridiculous to say the least.


----------



## toth boer goats




----------



## HoosierShadow

Update on Max - so he seems to be doing good, legs maybe trying to feel better from top to bottom but hard to say. Nustock I truly feel irritated him and caused some sores on all 4 feet/legs. I'm leaving them alone for now and just doing Chlorhexidine spray. 
I took some quick pics yesterday evening, not great but shows you the severity of that front left. It feels better going up to the knee, scaly, but dry if that makes sense. No swelling. He has some random sores on his other feet that make me think staph? Maybe I"m wrong. We've had some staph here off and on over the last couple of years, but nothing severe like this. Although the first time we dealt with it we didn't know it was staph, thought it was mites, then thought fly related, and I want to say mite cream or nustock caused it to blow up with infection. So, maybe that's what possibly happened here? 
He is getting hair regrowth around his eyes where he was losing hair, so that tells me maybe the Ivermectin Pour On is helping.
He has dry skin, not sure if it's the effects from Ivermectin Pour On, fly spray or maybe shedding dead skin from mites?

He is now out with a January born wether and next to the yearling buck. He seems to be settling in okay, but misses being in the barn at night. The wether is being a bully but i don't think it will be long before Max can push him around.

Pics of his front left leg


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## HoosierShadow

Forgot this one. I'm on my laptop and it's being a pain.

BTW, green/blue colored stuff is from the Chlorhexidine.


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## Moers kiko boars

Ouch that looks so.painful. yet I agree it doesnt look swollen. Hopefully all you have done will start showing.


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## toth boer goats

I am confused, it really should be better than that by now. 

Are you over using Ivomec pour on?
How often are you putting it on?

I hear the mentioning of putting it on all the time?


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## CountyLineAcres

I agree. Could it be something else? It looks so lumpy and red and nothing like I’ve ever seen. Even our most severe case of mites (the buckling lost nearly all of his hair and was naked for about 3 weeks) still didn’t look that irritated. How often was the NuStock used? I believe it can cause irritation if used too often. I’d be looking at a secondary skin infection. Has his limping improved? Poor boy!


----------



## Jessica84

So keep in mind I have never been blessed with mites. But I have heard of people using oils and such to smoother mites. But since we are not totally sure mites are the issue what about using something like this

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2E87C5F7-7B6A-11D5-A192-00B0D0204AE5
I love this stuff, I call it neosporn on steroids. But I have used it on SO many things. A bad case of rain rot, hoof scald, and recently a kid that literally skinned the skin off of his leg (I had to cut the haggard skin off!) and it does amazing things. So I'm thinking it should be able to take care of a wide "maybes" he might have going on. 
Just a thought


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks, I appreciate the help.

Pam - I have only done the Ivermectin 2x down the back - 9 days apart instead of 10. I put some under his dew claws last week on the 3 'better' legs. The only time I put Ivermectin on his bad leg was the 1st time I treated him 2 weeks ago.

Nustock I was doing a little for a few days in a row with diaper rash ointment mixed together per a friends suggestion. Stopped that, soaked his legs in Permetherin trying to get the Nustock residue off. It was not staying on very well - wasn't caked on, just random spots still had some on it.
Waited 3-4 days, and reapplied Nustock mixed with a tiny bit of Vaseline - my normal treatment and I've even used this daily with 0 issues and cleared them right up.
Well 2 days of that, and scrubbed it off with Iodine medicated shampoo, then started the Chlorhexidine, and it is what you see now.

Jessica - My husband even recommended using Fura-Zone. I started to get it, but wasn't sure if it covered Fungal issues, I know it does cover antibacterial.

On a goat group I posted pics of yesterday on FB trying to see if anyone had any other suggestions or had seen anything like this, seems like they are saying mite sores, but one person said sore mouth? We've never had sore mouth. I did finally contact the breeder about it and sent these current pictures, no - I'm sorry for selling you our problem, etc. just suggested an expensive injectable, a spray and Nustock.

Another breeder who is a good friend and someone I trust like you all said to try mixing Nustock and Fluid Film (lanolin based spray), so I'm wondering if I should try that? But if this is not mites then I am still worried it will make him worse. (headsmash)

It's like his skin is covered in some calcified little weird scabs on the worst leg, so hard to explain. Then the random sores on the other feet and legs. I have no idea what I am up against or which treatment method I should go with. I keep thinking I need to keep Staph in mind, worried now about sore mouth? and then worried maybe it's from maybe killing off the mites and this is the aftereffect of that where they have died under the skin? Or just some kind of reaction to treatment  (headsmash)

Other than feeling like it's spreading into his arm pit and up one back leg with the random scabs, which back leg feels like mites in an area I have not touched with Nustock, I want to say maybe his worst leg looks a little better, not as angry, but definitely super dry. I'm going to make dinner, then hoping it doesn't rain so I can get him up on the stand and get a better look at him.

This is what I was planning to put on him today, apparently many cattle people have used it with success with skin issues and especially against ringworm (never dealt with it that I know of)








Again it is Lanolin based.

But again, keeping staph infection in the back of my mind... what treats staph, fungal or bacterial infections? Or... if this poor guy has sore mouth what treats all of that plus sore mouth? I think I am more than banging my head on the wall at this point


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## HoosierShadow

Jessica84 said:


> So keep in mind I have never been blessed with mites. But I have heard of people using oils and such to smoother mites. But since we are not totally sure mites are the issue what about using something like this
> 
> https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2E87C5F7-7B6A-11D5-A192-00B0D0204AE5
> I love this stuff, I call it neosporn on steroids. But I have used it on SO many things. A bad case of rain rot, hoof scald, and recently a kid that literally skinned the skin off of his leg (I had to cut the haggard skin off!) and it does amazing things. So I'm thinking it should be able to take care of a wide "maybes" he might have going on.
> Just a thought


Again I am tempted to try this. My husband loves Furazone, they use it on the horses all the time. They also use Healex









But we don't know that it will help. They used to use MTG but he said they had no luck with it on various skin issues so stopped using it, and he didn't want me to spend the $$ on it because at one point over the weekend I was considering the MTG Plus.


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## Jessica84

No I get not spending the money on something that might not work. Although I always keep that on hand and will even use it on myself, but I also didn’t get done making a big purchase on a buck 
Honestly I don’t think that is sore mouth. Sore mouth is a lot more crusty, nasty looking and to be honest there is no way to really speed up recovery time, only help sooth it and letting it run it’s course. Many people have 101 ways they swear fixes it but IMO its just doing its thing and people feel better they are doing something about it.
So that leaves staph or fungal. I’m not sure if it’s staph either. It could be I won’t say it’s not but what I used for a doe that had staph was watered down iodine. I kinda scrubbed the area, and she had it BAD! She was a fat slob that wouldn’t get up to pee so she had it all down her back end and under her stomach. It was so gross. Anyways that did well. There’s a topic on here about sore mouth and I believe it’s actually staph they are dealing with, someone else suggested something else, might not hurt to check it out. I picked iodine because I had it. 
Fungal, apple cider vinegar I absolutely swear by! My son got ring worm on his head (another ick story lol) and my truck was down so couldn’t run to the store. I googled home remedies and ACV was mentioned so I figured let’s try it. I think it was something like 3 days just drenching his head after a shower and there wasn’t a spot left. So that’s something you can try. 
Looking at it though I would almost be tempted to think maybe some kind of hoof scald remedy. That’s why I suggested the fura-zone because it kinda looked like hoof scald that the doe had here but not exactly. If you have some coppertox I would be tempted to give it a try and see what happens. I don’t think any way you go if it’s something else it’s really going to make anything worse so you might just have to play and see what happens. I would though give whatever you try a chance to work before moving onto something else, unless of course it starts getting worse.


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## Llaughingllama

I don't think he's that bad from the pictures. I would be worried about the sway back and the odd belly, BUT kids grow weirdly. The kids I had would focus on one area in a growth spurt, and then another. He looks more like benign neglect. I would worm the heck out of him, get him cleaned up and just wait and see. Now, granted I have grade goat, and mixes at that, but I get conformation because I used to show dogs. Groceries are important with him.
Good luck!

ETA: it looks like he shed his winter coat, which often hides a multitude of sins. Give him time and work with him. That is my recommendation.



HoosierShadow said:


> Thanks, I appreciate it. Yes, totally my mistake for bringing him home. He isn't horrible, but definitely not what we were expecting at all. I have not heard back from the breeder at all and after talking with some friends including Jessica, I think we may give him a chance, we can get him into shape, and see where we are - breed him to the does we intended him for, and if we don't like him enough... sell him. See what kids are like and sell them to recoup $$ if we don't want to keep any. I do think they have too much going on to look after each goat.
> 
> Apparently we now have a currently way over priced project with current condition.
> 
> My husband will be furious with my decision, but it is what it is...
> 
> He just turned 3 months old a week ago, and feet were in bad need of trimming. he needs groceries which I did expect that. I will run a fecal on him tonight.
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## HoosierShadow

Jessica - I will check out the thread you mentioned, thanks! I agree, to me it honestly looks like a fungal type of infection. Sort of like hoof scald that we sometimes see under the dew claw very randomly, but I've never had anything like this. I wish the Dr. Naylors Hoof & Heal didn't burn so badly because that is my go to for hoof scald. 
Very interesting about the ACV, I didn't know it was good for that! I had been considering soaking his legs in vinegar, so maybe ACV instead. I'd also considered making him shampoo out of ACV/Dawn soap/Listerine but had thought the Iodine shampoo would be better. Now guessing I should have went with my gut feeling.

We did put the Fluid Film on him yesterday evening, but I haven't picked up his legs today to see what they look like, figured I'd wait until the afternoon. He did seem happier this morning, and was letting me know he was ready for breakfast lol



Llaughingllama said:


> I don't think he's that bad from the pictures. I would be worried about the sway back and the odd belly, BUT kids grow weirdly. The kids I had would focus on one area in a growth spurt, and then another. He looks more like benign neglect. I would worm the heck out of him, get him cleaned up and just wait and see. Now, granted I have grade goat, and mixes at that, but I get conformation because I used to show dogs. Groceries are important with him.
> Good luck!
> 
> ETA: it looks like he shed his winter coat, which often hides a multitude of sins. Give him time and work with him. That is my recommendation.


Thanks! I'm not too worried about his back, he tends to stand pretty good, it may not be a perfect topline, but he's just a baby that didn't have the best of care or so it seems. I dont' care for the belly, but honestly, I think he was on a hay diet mostly, because he had a major hay belly as did many of the goats I seen. He really needs to fill out his butt and get more cover over his shoulders and hopefully widen up a little on the front end. He's in a weird growth IMO. He has the genetic potential to be very nice, his parents are super nice and champions so hopefully when we breed him he can pass some of those traits down to his kids.

His fecal was perfect last week, I saw nothing in it. BUT... I did do Sulfadimethoxine for 5 days before I was able to finally get his fecal done. 
We did deworm him today with Equimax as I worry about tapeworm since mites and tapeworm seem to go hand in hand. If he has any I'll know it by the afternoon. Otherwise, hoping the Ivermectin part can help aid in the fight against mites.


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## toth boer goats

Only thing I would suggest, yet by already treating, may make the test off. Is to have a deep tissue scraping done and find out what the heck this is. How frustrating for sure.
If is was mites they would be killed off long ago. So now we most likely rule that out, unless he is immuned to all mite treatments. 

I agree, sore mouth seems wrong.
He would have it on his mouth by now. 

Use a black light to see if it is ringworm. If it isn't.
I would try coconut oil as I mentioned prior. It has healing and soothing properties.


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## HoosierShadow

Pam - I agree, I think surely the mites should be dead. I really think this is a secondary fungal infection or Staph, I really don't know how to tell them apart. Is it possible that the mites maybe died under the skin and caused an infection? Can Coconut oil help with fungal/bacterial infections? I feel like I need to get to the root of the issue to kill off whatever it is, then help the skin heal. The skin is so thick with whatever this stuff is.

I feel like maybe the Fluid Film might be helping, but it's so hard to know for sure as I've only used it twice. I was able to get some of the scabs loose today and compared to yesterday I think maybe there is progress? Yesterday on his severe leg under the dew claw when I worked scabs loose it was raw, red or trying to bleed a bit. This morning I was able to rub off a lot of the scaly scabs and saw less rawness. Same with his other legs.

I sprayed his legs with Chlorhexidine this morning, but want to get him on the stand this afternoon and see if my husband can help me work scabs loose, and maybe blow his legs out. I'd really like to wash his legs with the medicated shampoo to help work the scabs off, but I'm so afraid the water/moisture is adding to the problem? Ugh. So hard to know what is the right thing to do. 

Either way, if no big improvement by Monday I will be contacting the small animal vet around the corner and see if she can help me with him, maybe do a skin scrape and go from there? Definitely bizarre.


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## Aasiya

Not sure if you already did..but did you try any essential oils? I used to treat my rabbits mites with a sea salt wash and then smother the area with a mixture of olive oil and tea tree oil. Rosehip essential oil also helps the skin heal. This was after they showed resistance to ivermectin...and it seemed to clear the problem. Iv never tried it on goats though....poor boy, his legs look terrible. Hope this helps a bit...


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## toth boer goats

Several studies have demonstrated *coconut oil* aids in *wound* healing.
It sped up healing, improved antioxidant status and increased levels of collagen, an important protein that aids in *wound* healing.

*Coconut oil* helps ease the pain and keeps infections at bay, thanks to moisturizing, anti-inflammatory and anti-bacteria properties. In fact, *coconut oil* helps prevent scarring as well.

If you are seeing results in what you are using now, by all means continue with it.


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## Moers kiko boars

:up::nod:


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks for the info Pam! I will definitely be keeping coconut oil in mind!

Fingers crossed, but I do think he may possibly be improving! I didn't get a chance to put him on the stand, but I did feel on his legs, pulled more scabs loose, and put on some fresh Fluid Film. 

I've not found a lot of info on Fluid Film online, but from what I have found on some cattle & sheep sites, it's highly recommended for fungus and ringworm. Very interesting. If this clears the little guy up then I will definitely be sold on it's value. 

Aasiya - Thank you  I'm really thinking this is a secondary issue. I treated him pretty aggressively for the mites (my usual protocol for dealing with mites), but I feel that this is some kind of weird fungus, I've never seen mites do this. But again will keep these ideas in mind!


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## Aasiya

Glad to know he's improving! In case it really is a fungus, tea tree oil is a great antifungal and has been shown to be effective in staph infections as well. It will also be helpful with ringworm, but for ringworm my treatment of choice is metronidazole lotion/topical cream. Iv used it successfully in kittens, as they can't tolerate tea tree.


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## toth boer goats

Very good to hear.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey there. I just left my vet. And I have some info for you. He was telling me DO NOT use iodine for the navels on newborns. If it is too strong it will cause umbilical/ or close proximity hernias! There have been several vets document 
This information. I said I have never seen it. Yes its in several vet blogs. He said to use a Surgical solution example betodine..it has iodine & provodine and its balanced. No umbilical or that proximity of hernias. Just wanted to share with you.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks for that info Moers I appreciate it! I've never heard to not use Iodine before? Very interesting. You know... that bottle of Iodine I used in January... I also wonder if I left it in the barn through the summer then through the winter - all the temp changes, I wonder if that can cause it to go bad or be less effective? I keep the triodine that I bought in the house.

Well Max's leg is not getting better and looks just as bad as it did a few days ago - with the exception I can get the scabs off. Looks infected per my thoughts and a friend that I have consulted with.

I washed his legs today with the Iodine medicated shampoo to get all the stuff off, scabs, and dirt (his legs were yucky). 3 legs definitely look better. But that bad leg... ugh.

Be prepared, these pics are... yuck. Any guesses? A friend told me to try Triple Antibiotic Ointment, and another friend has suggested Athlete's foot cream. After washing and getting scabs off and trimming his hooves, I sprayed him down with Chlorhexidine, and gently blow dried leaving his legs clean and dry so air can get to it. I wanted to shave his legs, but so afraid to get whatever this is into my clippers.




























His other legs were no where near as bad as this, but they are looking better - the next two pics show what they look like when the scabs are off and they seem to be in the healing phase.



















Right front looks good, but has some scabs on the inside part of the legs I've been working loose you can kind of see it on the right side of the pic by my fingers.









Video of that horrible leg - You can see lots of scabs that are coming off of the area below the knee, 2 days ago I couldn't get one scab off, so I feel the Fluid film has definitely helped in getting those loosened up where I could get them off. 





And here's a quick video of him this evening after his torture treatment. He is such a good boy considering everything he's been through. Don't mind me picking off an old scab on his neck, I'm not finding any new ones coming up thankfully.


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## Moers kiko boars

I would take him to a vet and let them take scrapings and diagnose if its fungal or bacterial. Poor baby.


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## CountyLineAcres

Wow! I have no words.


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## HoosierShadow

Yep  To say I am mad about this is an understatement. No reason this guy has to go through all of this because he was neglected. He's such a sweet little guy, he doesn't deserve to go through this  

The vet is not in until Monday, I completely forgot they are not there on Saturdays. I think I am going to see how it looks in the morning and try the triple antibiotic ointment since I have that on hand and see if it helps at all until I can get him checked out.


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## Ranger1

Sounds like you’ve tried a lot of other stuff-have you tried giving him zinc?


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## Iluvlilly!

Wow the poor cutie. He definitely is a super nice looking buck though:inlove: Sorry, to hear about the mites(console) Hope he get's better soon! Your doing a great job(thumbup)


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## NDinKY

Poor little guy! I agree a vet visit is in order.

With all the things you’ve tried, is it possible they’re just irritating his skin further? Chlorhexidine is pretty gentle, but iodine can cause reactions as can many antibiotic creams/ointments. Be careful with triple antibiotic cream as it can cause reactions too. 

Do goats get eczema or other skin problems like that? Could it be an autoimmune problem?

Keeping him in my thoughts and hope you get it figured out soon.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Everyone I appreciate it! 

Max's leg looked better this morning! Not as irritable as in those pics/video. I know that doesn't mean he is going to get better, but at least it doesn't look worse. 
I did put some triple antibiotic ointment on his leg, but if it looks like it's irritating it this afternoon then I will try to figure out a way to get it off without having to use water. 
No new scabs on the sores on the other feet when I checked them, fingers crossed! Skin looks good and pink on those legs/feet. 

Ranger1 - I have not given him anything as far as supplements. He is just under 4 months old. I did however try mixing Nustock/Diaper Rash ointment a couple of weeks ago before it got severe and the ointment has zinc in it.

NDinKY - I worry about that as well, but I think he just had a mite issue that was neglected and now I'm wondering if I did in fact kill off the mites, is it possible they died under the skin and caused an infection? I do know goats can get things like eczema, but really thinking this guy just needs the right treatment, just have to figure out what it is. 
I don't know if he still has an active mite issue or if it's just bacterial or fungal. That is where a skin scrape will come in hand. 

I appreciate all the support, and ideas. I'm considering it all but thinking at this point we'll wait and see if we can get the skin scrape done and go from there.


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## toth boer goats

Glad they are improving.

I would still get a vet to do a scrapping though. 

That buckling is more forgiving than any goat I have ever seen.
All you have done to him, if I did that to any of my goats, they would run when they seen me.

He is looking a lot better as in weight gain and overall appearance other than that issue he is going through.


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## Moers kiko boars

He loves her cause she feeds him sooooo well!(rofl)(rofl)
No honestly... hes a good boy that loves his mommy!


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## toth boer goats

:clever::haha:


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## HoosierShadow

LOL Thanks Moers & Pam I appreciate it!  
Well, I ended up not going out to the barn today at all that is a first for me! yesterday evening Max's foot looked better, so I opted to leave it alone and see if there is real progress by tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed. I've honestly been stressed about getting Max healthy, and now the yearling buck is starting rut and being a pain - not eating well, and seems to think that Max's buddy, George (wether) is a girl and that he needs to try and get him from Max - ugh. So we're debating moving the wether with the girls for now. I need to see if our 4-H program is even going to have a sale, if not then George needs to go which breaks my heart, but if that will calm the buck down... George isn't all that nice to Max so I doubt Max will miss him too much.

So... I've decided to get motivated and paint some inside the house lol. My computer room is also sort of the mud/junk room, so I moved everything into the front room (war zone lol), painted the ceiling and walls. Hubby was off today which made this task possible! ​Tomorrow carpet cleaning, and have a few errands after morning barn chores. I'll put a call into the vet tomorrow, but unless they are worse I doubt I can get him in until middle of the week if she is able to see him. Fingers crossed.


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## Moers kiko boars

I UNDERSTAND! Patience IS NOT my virtue! I want it all healed and well the minute I put medicine in it or on it!:devil: I forget it takes time. ...hours.....days....to heal! mg: Not my idea of fun:waiting:. Especially with a goat Im deeply involved with. :goatkiss:! I never want them hurt/ thin/ sick/ or wormy! :squish:. So yes you did :great: today!


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks! I am the same way, I want it healed up right away! I definitely don't want to see them hurting. 
Good news? His leg looks better! He also wasn't fussing much when I was examining it or acting like it was hurting! I put on some triple antibiotic ointment and worked a few random scabs off that I couldn't get off before. His other 3 legs look good! Fingers crossed!
I will still be calling the vet and finding out about a skin scrape to determine what in the heck this is. I know he isn't out of the woods, but sure is good to wake up to good news today.
Especially the news that my sister in law is getting out of the hospital today! She's been battling Leukemia and has been in the hospital a little over a month after her bone marrow transplant (from my 16 year old nephew - he's a hero!  ). So definitely a good morning


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## toth boer goats

Hope things get better soon. What a nightmare and it is time for all to finally get back to a norm :hug:


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## Moers kiko boars

It sounds as though Good News all the way around! So cool.about your nephew stepping up. Im glad she is out of that hospital. She will feel so much better at home. 
Glad Max is better! Hes a good little man. So cute.


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## HoosierShadow

I thought I would update on Max - he is doing good and that severe leg is looking so much better! I have not had a skin scrape done, it's looking like early next week would be the earliest I could get him in since this is a non emergency. His leg is no longer red or irritated, and feels better - I'd say 50% better. the back of his foot still gets a weird kind of growth on it, which just makes me think fungus when I look at it. No new hard scabs, it's just soft stuff like a film over the skin - wish I had gotten a picture to show.
So... I bought some of the athlete's foot spray and will try it tomorrow to see if that helps. Fingers crossed this helps and clears it up. His other legs look good, but as a precaution I think I'll put some of the spray on the few random spots that have been healing.


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## ksalvagno

Glad he is improving.


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## toth boer goats

Good to hear. :goodjob:


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## HoosierShadow

I thought I would update on Max while I have a few minutes! Fingers crossed, but he is doing much better! I'd say the leg is about 60% healed! I did a few days of the athelete's foot spray, and yesterday I gave him a scrubbing bath with the Iodine medicated shampoo and got the little bit of growthy type stuff off. I dried him, sprayed that leg with Triodine as well as the inside of his other front leg, and the other legs with Chlorhexidine since Triodine stains. Dried, and today looks good, no regrowth of that weird stuff (it makes me think Fungus).

Yesterday I picked up a bottle of Absorbine Fungasole spray and used that this morning. Fingers crossed this stuff helps to finish clearing it up, otherwise I'll possibly just stick with the Triodine. Small gleam of hope that my daughter can take him to a show in a few weeks - yes that much improvement! So long as he doesn't go backwards with using this spray.


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## ksalvagno

Great news!


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## Courtney De St Jean

I am so sorry that happened, that sucks. I hope that he works out better for you <3 <3 <3 I am glad that he is to a home where he is going to be properly taken care of


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks I appreciate it! It's definitely been a bumpy road with this little guy, but he has snagged my heart strings and is definitely my shadow! He knows his name, answers you when you call it, and is just a joy to be around. Due to some issues we are switching feed, and he absolutely LOVES the new feed. 
We picked him up on 6/6, on 6/11 he weighed 69.6lbs, and today he weighed 89.2lbs. So he has gained over 20lbs since he's been here. He's about 10lbs shy of where our boys usually are at this age, so I am fine with that. 

I'll inspect his legs tomorrow and see if the new spray is helping. He's so close to being over this 'crud.'


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## toth boer goats

:goodjobthumbup)


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## HoosierShadow

How about a Max update?





































He's nearly all healed up! The inside of his leg is great, you can see where the hair is starting to grow back on it. No irritation under his dew claws, just old/dry skin that is slowly coming off and hair has almost completely grown back in.

He got washed and clipped today and seemed to really enjoy it - especially since the heat index was over 100 degrees!


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## CountyLineAcres

He is looking fantastic! I think he is looking promising!


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## Tanya

Go Max. Wow. He is starting to be a looker. It seems all your efforts are paying off. Good going.


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks I appreciate it! He is definitely my little buddy, to say I don't absolutely adore him is an understatement! Everything he has been through and he is still so sweet and trusting! He knows his name, and answers me when I call him lol He's still skittish of my kids and hubby, but is much better with my daughter now days. He walks good on a show collar. The other day my daughter was working with him, and let him go and he ran to me lol! Fingers crossed he stays healthy and thrives.


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## Moers kiko boars

Hey...now wait a minute...you dodnt like him...remember...so now.that youve done.ALL THE WORK...:clever: your giving him to.me right??¿:ahh:¡¡ Cause I have always liked him!(rofl)(rofl)(rofl)
Hes Gorgeous...just like I knew he would be...just give him 3 more months....hes going to.be Breathtaking!!!!:squish:


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## toth boer goats

He looks great.

Glad he is healing.  :goodjob:


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Pam I appreciate it! He's coming along! Thank goodness on the healing, I was so worried he'd never get healed up, and so hard to get into the vet with him since they are technically a small animal dog/cat setup. It's so hard to find a goat vet, we have one for emergencies but even hard to get him out here as he stays busy with his main job (horses).



Moers kiko boars said:


> Hey...now wait a minute...you dodnt like him...remember...so now.that youve done.ALL THE WORK...:clever: your giving him to.me right??¿:ahh:¡¡ Cause I have always liked him!(rofl)(rofl)(rofl)
> Hes Gorgeous...just like I knew he would be...just give him 3 more months....hes going to.be Breathtaking!!!!:squish:


Aww thanks! I thought he could have potential, but definitely wasn't impressed when I brought him home! He's grown on me so much, he is my buddy - my sidekick. He is so very sweet. Melts my heart when he gets excited to see me. Of course, his voice on the other hand... he has one of those feeding time cries where you think he is dying or severely constipated lol! One day I should try to get video, it's pretty funny! There is a busy restaurant next door, and outdoor dinning only. I can only imagine what people must think when he does his evening 'starvation cry' lol.


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## toth boer goats

:hughighfive)


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## Moers kiko boars

:update:

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???:gottago:
:welcomeback: I HAVE MISSED YOU! WHATS UP? HOWS MY LITTLE GUY DOING? HOW ARE.YOU. HOWS THE KIDS DOING? HOWS 4H? WHERES THE VIDEOS??? :ty: For ALL YOU.DO! :upset:I MISS YOU!!!:squish:


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks for asking. We actually sold Max last night! :'( It was so hard to do as I love him, and he is maturing into a handsome boy as I knew he had the potential! He's getting thicker and bigger every day, in less than 2 weeks he's put on about 16lbs!

We decided to sell him because we decided to sell the does we'd planned to breed him to. After attending a show, my daughter wants to get into showing more than county fairs, which means she needs a different kind of doe. Our does are nice, and do well, but we need more frame/bone. So.. we sold all but 1 of our 2020 doe kids (youngest is still on mom). Max was sold with 2 of the does we'd intended on breeding to him in the future. I'm so excited for the new owners. We're going to try and get the rest of the does bred in the coming weeks and confirm pregnancy via blood test so we can sell our buck and just keep 8 does through the winter. 
Problem is we have 1 doe that kidded mid May and getting ready to wean her buck kid, but would like to leave the doe on her longer. With not having a weaning buddy we may end up selling her off of mom, but we'll see, we haven't thought that far ahead. My other issue is getting her ready to breed before we sell the buck. Ugh. I don't like doing back to back breeding's but I absolutely do not like having summer babies, so we do need to get her on schedule with the others.

So that's where we are at.

These are the last pics I took a couple of weeks ago and he seriously looks even better. Still gets that big hay belly, but otherwise.... I'm so proud of this guy and I shed tears selling him and the 2 girls. I couldn't sleep thinking about how much we would miss them  But couldn't justify keeping him for only 1 or maybe 2 does (I'd planned to breed 4-5 to him).


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## Moers kiko boars

Thanks for answering. I was beginning to worry. So is your daughter doing the jackpots? She is wanting more tubular does? 
Awww he is such a cute little guy. Im sure you found a good family for him. He was really shaping up! 
How are you? Sounds like your breeding schedule is getting ready to be very busy. You just cant leave us high & dry...k? Gotta let us know you are ok. Please?


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## HoosierShadow

Thanks Moers! My daughter wants to be able to do more breeding shows like JABGA/ABGA. We need does that are bigger framed, and have more bone. Our does are nice, but aren't fancy show goats, and there is definitely a more modern style winning in the show rings. We don't need grand champions, I can't afford those lol! But hoping to buy a couple of does that she'll be able to do well with. We are down to 10 does now, 9 adults and 1 baby still on mom. I'm hoping to get down to 8 honestly. 3 are yearlings. 2 of the yearlings are pretty nice for showing and did well at the show we went to last month. 1st show the judge didn't like her traditional yearling, but 2nd judge placed her 3rd (big classes), and said he would have placed her 2nd if she was longer bodied, and had a longer neck. I agree and fingers crossed our buck can improve that in her kids as he is long bodied. 
Her other doe that we bought in May also did well in big, competitive classes she placed 4th & 5th. She has the bone and nice front end, but loses some of the length and power through out if that makes sense lol.
I'll have to share pics of them later 

Max was definitely shaping up! I miss that guy so much. I'm just proud that we got him healthy, and looking good. 

I've been doing good, thanks for asking  I hope you are doing well also! We opted to breed as many as we could during winter break so my daughter is not worrying about school and kidding, plus, early year kids especially bucks sell better as they are usually ready to breed in August.


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## Moers kiko boars

Yes..I inderstand TUBULAR does. Ive been watching what people are buying. I just prefer that Roman nose. The new long necked does..almost turn into.sharp pointed faces. So its getting hard to get used to. 
Most large boned big wide does are % does. Some are massive. But putting that sharp nose looks different to me.


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