# Is this amount of milk normal?



## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Hello, 
I have a question I really have difficult to find an answer to as a new goat keeper. It seems that it is something everybody just nows about so it's not worth talking about  So here it is. We brought two goats a week ago. One is after her first kids. It's really been two or three days she started to eat well and looks at ease here, but the thing is she gives me only 700 ml of milk a day (a bit less than a quater). I milk her twice a day and I am pretty sure I learned to do it well enough to milk fully. She is a bit skinny for my taste (was feeding two kids for around three month, never milked), so I am feeding her best I can (suplements, grain) and she's on a pasture. That's the story. I do not expect to get much more than half a gallon a day from her eventually, we got some "simple" goats to see if we like keeping them. What I heard (and that's the info I have hard time to confirm) is that you'll know how much goat can give only after her third refreshening. So maybe what I get is what is to be expected. Yet I do not see how two kids lived on that little... Could someone shed some light on this? Share some experiance? All info I can find is: make sure goat has kids and then milk your galon a day like a boss  Nothing about how stress affects milk, goat after first kids and all these variables. Thank you for any ideas and info and maybe stories to help me have a better understanding about goats


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

What breed are they? How long ago did they kid?


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

No breed. Mixed breed if you wish, very well mixed  (second goat newer had kids, so it's just one of them I am asking about). We took her from kids, she was fully nursed when we brought her. By the way, very first day (next day since we brought her at late evening) I got more than a quater (1,3 litre and it was my first time milking), then she dropped half that. Not it is a bit more than her lowest amount, but not much. Otherwise she looks happy and healthy goat (only a bit skinny) and her milk tastes wonderfull.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Breed can make a difference as meat breeds do not normally make as much milk as dairy..then within dairy breeds can differ as well such a a mini or cross mini. Second..if previous owners did not milk her..then she naturally decreases her production based on demand. You may be able to increase production by feeding well..adding alfalfa and quality minerals..making sure she is hydrated..but you may be getting all she will give this season.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Thank you happybleats! She is dairy and no minis in her blood, I am pretty sure since we don't have much of those and plenty of "half a gallon" mixed breeds. Just what people here kept for many many years. But a decrease because there was not much demand with more grown up kids make sense.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I wouldn't hold it against her this season ...she should do better next season
Would love to see a picture of them


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Pluke




__
Silvi


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Apr 18, 2020







That's her, another one is still a bit shy so no good picks yet. Eats from the hand, but no quick motions and no touches please  This one is called Pluke, it's a name of a flower in my language, don't know how it is in english thought.. Any amount of milk is good from her since it is really tasty and she is so good at milking, no kicking and really patient with me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

She is cute.

She does look a bit thin, it may be a good ideas to get a fecal for worms and cocci just in case.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

She was worse actually, looks better even after a week with no kids and good food. I'll see what I can do about those worms though.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe...what a cutie...looks like an alpine type breed. Love her.



Silvi said:


> She was worse actually, looks better even after a week with no kids and good food.


yes, kids can sure drain mom. A bit of groceries and making sure parasites aren't an issue will help.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

One good thing to do when bringing in new goats is a full check up..fecal for worm load, look for lice/mites and check temps. (101.5-103.5 is normal range of rectal temps)
Watch for Shipping fever which is basically stress induced pneumonia.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice doe! There is an old wives tale that the length of a goats tail tells how well she will milk. (That's why, in goat shows, they clip the tail and leave the brush, to make it look longer!). Your doe has a nice long tail! 

Probably, next lactation, she will milk to her full potential, but with good food, constant fresh water, a parasite check and regular milking, she should up her milk production. It may take a few weeks.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Thanks, Goats Rock, and everyone else for the answers  I am glad no one told me it is a useless goat. I will continue to learn as much as I can, give her good care and if it's next year, it's ok.
By the way, is it true that goat give much less milk after her first kids?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not true for a goat to give less milk after her first kids.

To make maximum milk capacity, we feed them well, by feeding grain and alfalfa hay. Free choice loose minerals.
Make sure they are parasite free and drink plenty of water.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

I see about milk and first kids. Her udder is rather small and woman we got her from said it will get bigger with time. Could that be true? And is there a way to make her drink more? Both goats drink very little and I tried putting some ACV, gave some watter with bit of honey (don't have molasses yet), tried it cold and warm, tried few different buckets and bowls. I change watter and wash bucket every day and they have mineral block they lick. Nothing seems to encourage them to drink more. It's still rather cold here in zone 5 and they are in a pasture. I bring them some plants and branches with leaves I know not to be poisonous or bad, more than they eat. Also carrots, apples. Could it be it's enough for them to get watter from what they eat? They both seem happy and healthy otherwise. Nice, soft coat, alert and curious. Had very overgrown hooves (no rot) but I am working on them and it's way better now.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Sounds like you are doing a great job at taking care of them. It could just be genetic that they are high producers. you could give them a salt block to encourage more water consumption.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Thanks, Goatzrule, doing best I can though there is still a lot to learn and some trust to gain  Build a milkstand today, so it's a learning time. Hope to start milking without anyone holding a goat. Half of milk went on the floor today after first try to milk alone, but we're getting there. They are still easy to scare, not fully used to surroundings and other one cold Muse (Fly in eanglish) I know was tied all her life so she just loves freedom


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

good luck with your new goats! She is beautiful!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Congratulations on your new goats and welcome!
Sounds like you're going to be a great goat parent. It's so fun learning about goats from other countries! I'm looking forward to hearing more about them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Here is a lesson I learned a long time ago..hard lesson..I had a beautiful doe born here to a wonderful milker..so I retained her. Her FF udder was pathetic. I was so disappointed!. Her udder barely filled my hand! I ended up selling her as pet quality. She had amazing color so was very eye appealing and a sweet doe. The guy who got her for a steal sent me pics of her udder the next season. Ugh..it was beautiful and wonderful compactly. She freshened with one of the best udders I seen in a long time. Milked forever. Hard lesson earned. Sometimes the first season is not the best season. I know many who grade their doe by that first year. I bet many are kicking themselves like I did.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

:groupwelcome:
So nice to hear from a goat person in Europe! (I’m from Europe too). You are doing great looking after these two!
Do they have loose minerals as well as their mineral block?
I didn’t have loose minerals before I joined the Goat Spot, and once I started, my doe gave twice as much milk.
Good luck!


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

If she was left to nurse her kids, then she wasn't really producing any more than she needed to. For maximum production, many breeder here pull the kids at birth and start milking the doe 2x per day and bottle feeding the kids. If you like to leave kids on the dam, you may get less milk this way, although genetics play heavily into this. Also, stress of a move tends to drop production. I would just get her healthy and see what she gives you next year.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Usually a pound of grain is a pound of milk. So how much grain is your beautiful lady getting a day? Getting a fecal is great as was suggested as well.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

happybleats said:


> Here is a lesson I learned a long time ago..hard lesson..I had a beautiful doe born here to a wonderful milker..so I retained her. Her FF udder was pathetic. I was so disappointed!. Her udder barely filled my hand! I ended up selling her as pet quality. She had amazing color so was very eye appealing and a sweet doe. The guy who got her for a steal sent me pics of her udder the next season. Ugh..it was beautiful and wonderful compactly. She freshened with one of the best udders I seen in a long time. Milked forever. Hard lesson earned. Sometimes the first season is not the best season. I know many who grade their doe by that first year. I bet many are kicking themselves like I did.


Hahaha this is where i am at with jade's ff udder. She has a beautiful rear udder but the sides and fore udder are just not there. Gorgeous attachments all around, loads of eustacion space and room for lots of capacity there. It is all high and tight. Her teats.... no one is sure what happened there. they are kissing her inner legs and when she decides to actually be good on the stand i could milk her from behind more easily than from the front. ;(. Her dam and that line and sire's dam and that line have omg beautiful udders. So we are all keepin our fingers crossed that next freshening those things will get much better. If not she will make a good home milker for someone just not here because i cannot improve my herd with it or sell kids as good breeding stock with it staying like this. ;(. I was not going to breed her this fall but i am now. I want to see if it improves and not keep her another year before we see if it changes for the good for us.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Sfgwife said:


> Usually a pound of grain is a pound of milk. So how much grain is your beautiful lady getting a day? Getting a fecal is great as was suggested as well.


I do not give her that much yet because I am trying to keep her interested in eating while milking. She is free in a pasture with electric net and not used to being milked so my first priority was to make her milking time as fun as I can and avoid running after goat twice a day  It's couple days ower a week since we had her so I am planing to give more grain and use goat pellets and other more "intetesting" stuff for milking since I learned how to get her interested enough to come and let me lead her to milking stand.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> :groupwelcome:
> So nice to hear from a goat person in Europe! (I'm from Europe too). You are doing great looking after these two!
> Do they have loose minerals as well as their mineral block?
> I didn't have loose minerals before I joined the Goat Spot, and once I started, my doe gave twice as much milk.
> Good luck!


Were are you from?  It seems to say Canada in your info or I am looking in wrong place. I will look into loose minerals, always new only about blocks. I give them free soda, but as far as I understand it's only to prevent bloating.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Silvi said:


> Were are you from?  It seems to say Canada in your info or I am looking in wrong place. I will look into loose minerals, always new only about blocks. I give them free soda, but as far as I understand it's only to prevent bloating.


I am from Germany, living in Canada now. :wave:
As for the loose minerals, see what is a available to you, and if you post the analysis here, some of the experts can hopefully help you choose the best one. You might have to get cattle minerals, as the ones labeled for goats are not always good. Yes, baking soda only for bloating.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

I am only Poland away from Germany!  I looked what we have as loose minerals and the answer is we just don't. Goats were never taken seriously here even if lots of people have some for their own needs. Yet most of these goats give only half a gallon a day genetically and for a long time goats were called "poor mans cow" - little maintenence and little milk even if everyone nows how good and healthy goats milk is. We have only sheep/goat stuff and nothing in loose form  So I will have to improvise. To have some shipped from other countries would cost a fortune. We have plenty of supplements with minerals, not specially for goats but it will have to do. Goats are slowly starting to be popular with Nubians as the most loved breed. Maybe in some future we'll have more stuff just for goats.


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Many people use cattle mineral.
Good luck!


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

MadHouse said:


> Many people use cattle mineral.
> Good luck!


Thanks! :bighug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Good news, amount of milk at evening milking rose once more. A little bit, but it's nice all the care is working. Thank you all for the help! I learned a lot. It's evening here, so it's time for a nice mug of warm milk with some honey


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

YAY, congrats.


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## momto6ls (Aug 15, 2014)

MadHouse said:


> I didn't have loose minerals before I joined the Goat Spot, and once I started, my doe gave twice as much milk.
> Good luck!


I know I'm late to this party, but I wanted to say DITTO to this! I have been learning about minerals, and when I gave my girls their first copper bolus they were giving more milk within a week! This was 6 months after kidding. Can't wait to see how much more they give after they freshen again. I have also been giving them selenium.

you might want to find out what minerals are deficient in your area. Some of the folks here can also tell you if they_ look_ deficient. You are in a great place for that! I have really appreciated their help.

AND WELCOME :hello:


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

momto6ls said:


> I know I'm late to this party, but I wanted to say DITTO to this! I have been learning about minerals, and when I gave my girls their first copper bolus they were giving more milk within a week! This was 6 months after kidding. Can't wait to see how much more they give after they freshen again. I have also been giving them selenium.
> 
> you might want to find out what minerals are deficient in your area. Some of the folks here can also tell you if they_ look_ deficient. You are in a great place for that! I have really appreciated their help.
> 
> AND WELCOME :hello:


I am looking into suplements and what we have here. She is doing better already but I love the idea to find out what minerals are deficient in my area. Also copper since goats need more of it. I have a feeling I will make this potentially only "half a gallon" goat into something worth mentioning, lol  And yes, this is a really good place for learning and support, I am glad I found it!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Silvi said:


> I am only Poland away from Germany!


And I am only a "Puddle" away from Lithuania!


Silvi said:


> Goats were never taken seriously here even if lots of people have some for their own needs. Yet most of these goats give only half a gallon a day genetically and for a long time goats were called "poor mans cow"


Just as I suspected, my prejudices about Eastern Europe still remain in my system - Poor Man's Cow was valid here also, a century ago. Until the restaurants and other gourmets discovered the taste of goats' cheese...


Silvi said:


> We have only sheep/goat stuff and nothing in loose form  So I will have to improvise.


If you can get the permission to photograph content lists of what you can get (and afford!!) and publish here, it might be much easier for the knowledgeable people in here to help you. Do not forget to co-buy with other farmers if the bags are big!

I do suspect worms. What do you know about the seller? Knowledge? Ability? Well wish for her animals?

Here we have several laboratories where we can send in fecal samples for about 20 - 50 dollars. If you do take a sample, try the Plastic Bag Trick!  (Someone else's turn to describe now!   )

And try to make someone here describe "Trollmor's Crossword Puzzle For Goats"! I am tired today, will log out. But be very welcome, and remember we will be very interested in more stories and pictures! Not only of your goats, but also the flower you mentioned, maybe someone knows its English or Latin, and your PLANS for a MILK STAND and other equipment you have and plan!! Here are threads about such.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Trollmor, the flower is anemone, which does not sound nice in eanglish at all  And it is poisonous, lol, but I like this flower, it's one of the first ones to flower in spring and makes forests look like fairytale.
I do not know much about the previous owner. She keeps goats for 20 she said and has around 15 of them. What I saw did not scare me or gave a bad feeling, that's why we bought her (second goat we got came for free from someone we know who had her for free for buying some sheep ). I did not look into fecal testing here yet, no idea if people even do this often and how much it can cost so it's something for me to figure out. What I did was some research on plants that work as dewormers and we have some growing around in big quantities like mugwort. Goats eat it anyway, so I bring some just to do best I can for now.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

If you mean _anemone nemorosa_, I have heard it is useable for simple deworming. It looks like this:








Maybe @ReNat knows anything about fecal tests. He lives in Russia, and has a very nice goat named Martin, who really earns his food.

So we have to begin where we are with your goat, and I start with the picture. She seems to be a bit reluctant to come to you, but not as scared as her companion, whom she, as you told us, does not know yet. Can I see the rest of some old wound on her left thigh? The pasture looks very good, and please do not let them pop parasite eggs on it, if you can avoid that, because you have not had goats there before?

Go on trying to "brain wash" the two, until they come rushing "MOMAAA! GIVE US TREATS; NOW!!" every time they see you anywhere close! It is always much easier to work with animals who come TO you when they see you, than with scared ones who run AWAY from you! (Even if we learned today that bare feet can be tickled badly by a friendly cow's tongue!)


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

And, I almost forgot, if you massage the udder gently and thoroughly every time you milk, lift it up when you milk, and really make it empty each time, and then add lots of the nice spring grass to her diet, she might "understand" that this new "kid" of hers is more and more hungry!!

Only don't let her "milk off herself", that will make her thin and bad off for next year.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Anemone is her name, just not in eanglish but in my language, lithuanian, whith is written Plukė. Did not find anything about in being dewormer though... Mugwort, on the other hand is said to be a good one and we have plenty and goats like it. I'll talk to the vet in local vet shop what is done here about worms, it will be easier. Russia maybe not far from here, but it is still a different country  Thanks for all advices you shared. I am working on them coming to me and we are doing not that bad at all. I definitely don't want to run after them twice a day!
I noticed today while milking that Plukė, the one in photo, has put some more meat on those bones so it made me happy she's doing well. Not overly skinny anymore and it's been only week and a half part of which she was to stressed out to eat properly. Now she eats with gusto and started to drink enough to make me happy. 
I looked for the wound you talked about but could not find anything that looked like it...
I do milk her to the last drop with massages and "bumps" like kids to while nursing. Milk is slowly increasing so I take it's a good sign.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You mentioned there is not a lot of interest for goat nutrition in your area. We (USA) have the minerals and everything, but goat prejudices remain. A lot of people still think goats are garbage eating machines, etc. a lot of veterinarians know next to nothing about goats and do not want to learn! We all just try and help each other!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

This one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mugwort
Bad for people allergic to grass pollen. Yes, strong smelling, and my goats also liked them - in limited doses!

 You are perfectly right, goats run faster than humans - and quickly learn habits!

Very nice news that Pluké finds a way to lay on material, especially if it is bone and muscle. Fat is not quite as important. Time to send her an extra stroke from me? Too early?

VERY good, then it was probably just a shadow, Had it been that big, you could not have missed it!!

I used to lift the udder very gently, not bump like the kids. I think it has the same effect - minus bruces.

Yes, @goat Rock, those same problems here, prejudices and bad treatment.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Yes, Mugworth is Artemisia vulgaris. They are not crazy about it, but do eat some. Also I managed to feed them some fresh garlic crushed and mixed with food, I read it's good for overall health.
They are not big on stroking yet  I manage to get Pluke to come to me with some treats eventually, but I do understand her and her trust issues. It was not all heaven here with me milking her, doing my best to fix her hooves, making her live in a new place with a new goat (they are good friends though). So one step at a time and she's in a pretty good shape (still needs some work on hooves, but I am giving her a break, it's not teribly bad) so I am happy. They looove tree brances and shrubs so I have a treat they can not resist and we have plenty of those. Will be buying some mellasess today, see how they like it.
I do not bump the udder hard at all, I am on gentle side as a person so I doubt I will be harming her and it do help to release extra milk even after massage. That increase of milk did not went down, yay!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Garlic is effective against many bacteria, fungi, AND viruses, which is unusual.

I have the impression that your goats are nor very used to stroking. Hopefully not to rough treatment neither, so once they see you as an "automatic treat feeder", they will hopefully come running, and your main problem will be to stand on your feet, not landing flat at the bottom of the heap.








So, back to my mantra: Leaves and twigs. Twigs, gnawing bark. Bark gnawing and leaves. This is their natural food, and can rarely be too much consumed. If it is cheap in addition, CONGRATULATIONS!! Here, through the centuries, people have collected and dried twigs and leaves for goats, but this is work consuming. But for treats during winter, YUM-YUM! 

So, it seems that you are getting along well, also with the milking, and I wish you luck, and I strongly look forward to your coming reports and photos!


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

We are doing even better than I thought. She already comes to milking stand and jumps on herself and being touched is not a problem to her anymore. So I will be giving that extra stoke now!  It's not that she was badly treated, it seems that she was not handled much. Other one is worse, she's very curious, comes for threats, eats from hand and acts more like a dog than a goat, lol. But being touched is a no no for her. Since he's not in milk (thank's God ) I was more focused on gaining other ones trust. By the way, the one not in milk (we got her for free from someone who did not want to milk and just kept her) is two years old and never had kids. Is it ok? Is she not to old? She will be 3 yo with her first kids.
If these in photo are your goats, they are so beautifull. Lookes like from the cover of a magazine! 
(it seems I attached a file somehow... It's my other goat, but pic is bad quality)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

(thumbup)


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Amount of milk rose again, yay!  Thank you all for ideas and support


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

It IS a pleasure!  Now my internet perhaps works again for a short while. Obviously people use their computers more, when they can not go out so much...

Now, let us see if it works:
https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads...coronavirus-chaos.212001/page-28#post-2388111

- Hm, you will have to scroll down and click on the next page, but there is should be, goats who have not HEARD of the Corona protection instructions!


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Silvi said:


> We are doing even better than I thought. She already comes to milking stand and jumps on herself and being touched is not a problem to her anymore. So I will be giving that extra stoke now!  It's not that she was badly treated, it seems that she was not handled much. Other one is worse, she's very curious, comes for threats, eats from hand and acts more like a dog than a goat, lol. But being touched is a no no for her. Since he's not in milk (thank's God ) I was more focused on gaining other ones trust. By the way, the one not in milk (we got her for free from someone who did not want to milk and just kept her) is two years old and never had kids. Is it ok? Is she not to old? She will be 3 yo with her first kids.
> If these in photo are your goats, they are so beautifull. Lookes like from the cover of a magazine!
> (it seems I attached a file somehow... It's my other goat, but pic is bad quality)


Oh, this entry of yours I did not see! I would also be a little bit worried about a first time delivery at 3 years of age, but ask more knowledgeable people here! After all, you seem to have "hands full" with one milking goat for a while! 

No, these goats are not mine, the pictures found on this forum!!! But mine did the same, I just went past the food barrels, and they came rushing, full with hope. Not that they jumped up on me; I taught them when they were small that "Humans are not steady enough to stand on" by taking a small step to the side when a young one tried, so the front hoofs landed in empty space. Congratulations when you have to do this!


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Update. My milking goat now gives me a quater, which is more that twice since we started. Her udder is visibly bigger as well. It was hard to fit two hands while milking before, no problem now. I hope she will rise a bit still, but that is close to what I expected from this kind of goat. So everything more is a bonus 
Another goat (the one that never had kids and is two y.o. now) we gave away, unfortunately. She was just too problematic and we decided to stay with healthy animals we know came from good hands. She was a rescue and I learned my lesson not to do it with the intent to just have a milking goat. So we bought another goat from the same woman we got the one in milk from. She is elderly and keeps her goats in a rather simple way, but now I know that they do not have any other problems than just a need for some better feeding and caring to have a better production.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

She looks so beautiful. Give her a chance.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

The one in photo is my goat in milk that I am keeping without questions. The one we gave away was not healthy and had mental problems. I did what I could, but to call a vet is way to expencive and she is a questionable quality goat in the first place. We gave her a chance but I guess there is a reason she went from hands to hands and nobady wanted her. Sad decision to make, but that's what we did.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

That's the new goat we brought and named her Bee. Ignore the rope, had to improvise. She's only second full day here, scared and fast, yet I have to milk her. I hope she will be ok in a week or so, much better already.


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## Silvi (Apr 18, 2020)

Hello all. I wanted to give an update on my goats. Last year I bought two milking goats and got only 2 liters a day from both. One gave me close to 1,5 and other only around 0,5 liters a day. I was wondering if I can get more or this is more or less all they can do genetically. So, they both are after kids this year and I get 3 liters a day from each! It's more then I ever expected from these goats. I was told I can expect 2 liters from a goat a day when I bought them, but I took a good care of them and I see the results. I just let them on a pasture today so I gues amount of milk may rise a bit still.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Good for you! Your hard work paid off!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

That’s great! Now you have lots of milk! Are you making cheese and yogurt?


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