# Bought a pregnant goat ...that isn't!?



## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

I need some advice. I just joined the board last week and have been so pleased and excited about my very first goat and waiting for her to kid and then learn to milk. Well today I showed her pictures to one of my mentors who is quite experienced. He asked me alot of questions and then told me that she has already kidded and that I needed to go straight home and start milking her because the swelling of her udder wasn't because she was due it was because she was full and had already kidded!! When I came home I studied her and reviewed what happened at the farm when I purchased her..and to make a long story short my other mentor who lives closer to me came over and proceeded to milk my goat!!! :GAAH: Tomorrow I am going back to get the little La Mancha that I purchased at the same time and I am wondering what I should say to the farmer I purchased them from?!! :scratch: This farmer purchased the wholoe herd from another guy who had health problems and had to sell it...he said he was sure she was pregnant and had been with the billy since Dec....so all these goats were togehter in pens and he said she hadn't kidded and I was buying a pregnant goat. There is no way that she has aborted since she has been with me. I am admittedly inexperienced with goats and am now wondering what do I say to him tomorrow when I pick up Ovaltine? I am ..well.. :? , wow! Should I chalk this up as learning the hard way or be angry at the farmer or what? I have no idea of how to proceed ...What would some of you do in this situation?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

How did the mentor come to the conclusion ...she already kidded... was she messy back their? Afterbirth? Is their any blood? If so... it may be that she is aborting or had kidded...... if she was getting closer to kidding and she was milked out ...the is bad..... you have to be sure..... 

Do you know how to bump her to check for babies?

If she just kidded where is the baby? 

Did you look for a kid around your place? Everywhere? in or under buckets ect

Sometimes.... a Doe will abort .... if moved(transported) towards the end of her pregnancy ....  

If you bought a pregnant goat.... you need to mention.. what is happening...say you are new at this and your mentor says she kidded..... but you the breeders opinion on this... because it is important to you....
if this is a good breeder and they are close... they should come look at her..... If you paid more for her and where told she was pregnant.... then... the seller needs to make it right... if they are at fault...if she aborted though... because of transport then ...the breeder isn't liable..... 

You need to get verification.... if possible... by a vet ....if you want to prove anything.... This is very hard though to prove..... unless the doe has a aborting disease.... which is possible.....too.... 

You say her udder was tight? that to me... says ...she is getting close to kidding or has already kidded...... Or was just weaned from her babies.....

Does she look pregnant at her tummy? Or thin and sunkin in.. at her flanks tailhead area..... as if she just kidded or has been nursing kids?

Is her uterus open ? wash up... put on rubber gloves and go in..with 2 fingers... if you hit a wall then... she is closed...... that will say... if she just kidded or is aborting.... If she is open and you are able to get your hand and arm in there...check for kids.... If you do not know what to do then ...have the breeder that you bought her from.... check her.... if they know how....


But need clarification ....of what the mentor has seen... to verify kidding has taken place....

I am so sorry.....


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

I brought Truffles home last Tuesday. She didn't seem to be heavy with pregnancy so being new to goats I was thinking single kid. Her udder was ..(my terminology may not be proper here but I'll do my best) full looking when we brought her home, but the next day it looked very full and tight. I assumed her udder looked fuller because she was getting very close. It stayed very tight and got rather pink...stayed like that for the first 3 days and then it wasn't as pink or sore and full looking. She has had no discharge of any kind since I brought her home and she has not been pastured or anywhere where a kid could be lost in foliage or behind anything...yes her sides are somewhat sunken in , again being new and looking at goats..they all seem thin to me but the more Steve asked and told me the more it is looking like she has kidded in that barn full of goats...there were kids all over the place, like maybe 50 outside and even more in the barn. The farmer said " I really bit off more than I can chew, after we got all the goats home they started dropping kids and about 75 % had triplets...I wasn't prepared for all this...". There were about 15 or 20 does in the pen that Truffles was in and he said they were the ones that were still pregnant. There was one little Togg baby in that pen that kept walking up to some of the does but he said she (Truffles) hadn't kidded....she was very calm on the trip home, layed down in the carrier and unloaded very calmly...Steve (mentor) said she looks like she has nursed for a couple of weeks to maybe a month. He said the way her udder hangs and the fullness isn't like a first time mom but one that has already been nursing...I am completely confident that she has not lost a kid since she has been with me as I have done rescue and release and delivered many other types of animals and have delivered babies in the ambulance as well, so I would have noticed discharge at the very least. Their were so many kids running around in that barn...I feel like an idiot for not knowing..I'm so glad that Steve knew what he was looking at but I have no idea what to even say or expect of the farmer.I don't want to give her back and after a week could you even tell if that little Togg had been hers? I am confused to say the least..? Does any of this give you a clearer picture of what has happened? Thanks so much for the quick response as well!


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm sorry that you've had a trying experience right off the bat... Perhaps if you talk to the farmer, he will see reason, and have a kid for you. Unfortunately, the "missing kid/kids" may not have made it without a momma to nurse them... I sincerely hope this all works out for you. I'm sure the farmer is just too over-run with goats to be able to keep track yet... Good luck! and please let us know what happens!


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks Pam and Milk and Honey. I'm hoping that is the case (overun therefore overwhelmed). If that was her little Togg I am hoping that one of the other does took it in. I know that doesn't always happen but ..ohhhh...I am trying to figure out what has me the most upset about all this...the fact that I took a Mom away from a baby (possibly more than one!!) or my own and/or the farmers ignorance of goats which has led to this or the disappointment of not having the little baby that I was preparing for or even the fact that I brought poor Truffles home and she stood there for a whole week trusting me to do the right things for a Mom and here I was oblivious and treating her like an expectant doe and waiting for her belly to fill out ....I don't want to go to the farmer this morning and give him a big attitude or make him feel like I am angry and then he'll be defensive...I just want to be sure to handle this correctly...well I have an hour and a half drive ahead of me so I will give you all an update when I am back home. Thanks so much for listening! Talk later, Cathy.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

Sounds like your mentor is right. She probably kidded at the farm she was at and just never looked like it, so the farmer separated her with the pregnant does. Her udder tightened the first day she was with you because she filled up after not nursing a baby. My guess is that the baby is still somewhere at the farm. If so, and the farmer hasn't found any passed away, then it probably was old enough to fend for itself or was able to latch on to another momma.

Like toth said, if you paid more because he said she was pregnant, then tell him to let you pick up a kid or two as well; or else to give you some money back. I get that he's overwhelmed, but still you should be an advocate for your own rights. I feel bad for the baby, but considering that Truffles wasn't too upset, I don't think she was recently separated. Either that or the baby was old enough for her not to care.

Tricky situation, sorry that you have to go through it with your first goating experience


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Mar 18, 2011)

You did not mention what breed she is.
Some are year round breeders, ie nubians, my boers, 
so if she was not upset from being separated from her kid(s) then it is possible she had older kids on the farm who were being weaned and is pregnant again.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Sounds like your mentor is right. She probably kidded at the farm she was at and just never looked like it, so the farmer separated her with the pregnant does. Her udder tightened the first day she was with you because she filled up after not nursing a baby. My guess is that the baby is still somewhere at the farm. If so, and the farmer hasn't found any passed away, then it probably was old enough to fend for itself or was able to latch on to another momma.
> 
> Like toth said, if you paid more because he said she was pregnant, then tell him to let you pick up a kid or two as well; or else to give you some money back. I get that he's overwhelmed, but still you should be an advocate for your own rights. I feel bad for the baby, but considering that Truffles wasn't too upset, I don't think she was recently separated. Either that or the baby was old enough for her not to care.
> 
> Tricky situation, sorry that you have to go through it with your first goating experience


 I completely agree... in every way... :thumb:



> You did not mention what breed she is.
> Some are year round breeders, ie nubians, my boers,
> so if she was not upset from being separated from her kid(s) then it is possible she had older kids on the farm who were being weaned and is pregnant again.


 I have to agree here as well.... :thumb:

Being thin and sucken in ...tells me... she has already kidded and when the mentor.... also said... the udder was tight but... not as if she was getting ready to kid ...but was as if ...she was separated from her kid(s) and started to fill tight .....

I feel bad for the kids as well....and it sounds like... that breeder has way to many goats and cannot keep an eye on them correctly ...which is sad..... It isn't your fault.... :hug:


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank You all so very much! I am a little frazzled but here is how the day went ,lol! We went to the farm early and there was my little La Mancha , Ovaltine. She had just finished her breakfast. Before loading her or anything else I told him "we have a bit of a situation". I explained about how Truffles (who is a Toggenburg btw) bagged up, etc and has he lost a baby or one getting weak. He was very startled and said lets go to the barn. We looked around and didn't find any weak or thin or dead babys. He was apologizing profusely, and offered to give me another goat with baby if I wanted to bring her back, but of course I have bonded with Truffles now and can't imagine doing that...I didn't think to ak for $ back, as I was just so glad there wasn't a baby there missing it's Mom! I am thinking that she must have dropped her kid and in the shuffle of the barns or being a new Mom just lost track and another goat adopted hers or it is in the pens of bottle fed babys which Ovaltine came out of. So of course in keeping with everything else it was now raining and we just bundled Ovaltine into my Rotty's sleeping bag (no he wasn't with us :wink: ) and she rode home on my knee. I stopped at Steve's and he looked her over...he's never seen a La Mancha and is parcial to Togg's..he said "a little odd shaped" but I said the lack of ears is a little different at first and gives the impression of an oddly proportioned goat at first. she is 2 months old and he disbuds so I asked him if it was too late or if she had horns coming..? He couldn't feel buds. So I know there is someone on here who raises L.M.'s and my question is "do all L.M.'s get horns or are some hornless (polled?). She doesn't seem to have any little buds, if she was going to get horns ...some of the other kids had horns about an inch or so long. So we came home and introduced evryone..Truffles has bonded with 2 of my huge meat hens and only wanted to be with her chickens, yes I am shaking my head right now,lol. So we put me Ovaltine in the other stall...with me so Esther could attempt to milk Truffles. I am still a little overwhelmed by everything and didn't want my anxiety transferring to Truffles. Low and behold ,and now I am crying,lol! Esther milked over 24 oz of milk from my new but not pregnant goat... :clap: :shocked: ...wow...Can you tell I am a little overwhelmed, lol? After the sucessful milking with a bit of kicking, we tried to get them to know each other some more..but Truffles was more concerned with "her" chickens :roll: . So they are in separate stalls for now and I will work on integration. On the other side Ovaltine and my Rotty quite like each other. I didn't let him in because he is so big, but he was washing her through the gate and she was liking it. I put one big hen with each goat for company and am taking a break before I go back out to feed them for the night and work on the whole "family" issue,lol. I know this post is huge but I feel like some progress was made today and after I get my head around all this I do now have my milk goat and although 24 oz isn't alot, it was her first milking after one week. So not too bad and I will work on getting her volume up and when the time comes I will have my 2 milk goats..I am trying to find positives...I don't have to raise and sell any babys from Truffles...so I can concentrate on my milking skills and getting the two of them happy with each other,right? So, still more WOWS from me...no waiting for baby, just start milking! Thank goodness my freind Esther is such a good milker,lol! So...wow, and uhh , I'm sure you are all going to have many more questions and goat adventures from me :chin: ...any advice on this situation and how to deal with it are soooo welcome and thank you all so much!!! Wow...


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Your very welcome.... glad things are going well... :thumb: 

Chickens :shocked: :laugh: 

Odd couples...LOL :laugh: :wink: 

The two goats ...should become friends...no worries there.... :wink: 

:grouphug:


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

OK..milked my own goat last night and fed the new little one. It went ok but the new one,Ovaltine, didn't like my new nipple so I dribbled her milk into the bowl and she sucked it right up. I expected her to get a bit of scours from the change of milk but this a.m.her first stool was very soft but then they were nice little raisins, so that was good. But this a.m. she is a bit snotty and chesty, a bit of a wet sounding cough...damn. It's not horrible but I want to stop it before it does get bad. I've saved all kinds of stuff and these goats are breaking me! Going to get more different nipples to try her with but is there anything that I can give her for the chesty snotties, sorry for the terminology. :roll: If anyone can give me an idea of what to give please try to put in full spellings so I know what you are meaning because all the short forms and letters baffle me. We don't have Tractor Suplly here in Canada but we have TSC and local co-ops and farm feed suppliers. Over the counter antibiotics, any kind of herbs...and how to administer in "easy" wording...she is in an unheated small barn in her own stall with lots of straw and both of the big meat hens now because Truffles is soooo much calmer now . Don't no if that is from milk releif,LOL, or just the sound of another goat...don't really care as long as she is happy,lol. Oh and it is snowing outside...I am not a fan of bringing animals out of their own environment for warming because eventually they have to go back out and then you are back where you started... :scratch: I don't think she is as old as he said, (which was 6 to eight weeks) when they are born they have the little white "caps" on their hooves, what age do those come off?she doesn't have any interest in the baby pellets he gave me. I am becoming a bit ...for lack of a better term..Pissy! at this guy...a whole herd and I think he knows less than I do! :GAAH: So any help or advice would again be so appreciated...I am in love with this site, thank you all sooo much!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get a temp first...

DO you think the baby aspirated any milk? 

The kid may get aspiration pneumonia keep the baby warm... give nutridrench or a little karo syrup in water and start antibiotics....if this is the case...


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

Hi Pam. She is a pretty carefull little slurper, she sneezes once in awhile while drinking but not like she has aspirated anything. Her cough is sounding a bit worse tonight though and I ordered some "pen G" today but it won't be in until next week so I may go to another place tomorrow and see if they have some in stock and my freind Esther will help me get that administered properly. She is awesome, she raises miniature horses and has Dexters and some goats too. She is an awesome mentor and freind, I'm very lucky, between her and Steve and everyone on here...So, anyway tonight Ovaltine was hopping around pretty good when I went out to feed her and was really active and she ate well and then with her belly full she looked very sleepy...I hope I can keep her ok...she is such a little sweet heart,  . Is karo syrup the same as corn syrup? On the other hand, Truffles is a champ on the milk stand! She was only milked for the very first time on Thursday morning and she fought my freind with everything she had...But for me she hops right up...today when I started milking she even lifted her leg up for easy access :hi5: ..every time I walk into the shed she jumps right up onto that stand and sticks her head right into the stanchion and looks over with a little wahhhh...see me!!! I'm ready!!! If it isn't time to milk she stands up and cranes her head around and puts her hooves on the walls and then jumps down and comes over to lick me and tries to push and pull me over to her stand...I milked her out this morning and got 2 1/2 cups, I hit her again in the afternoon and got about 3/4 cup and tonight she gave me about a 1/2 to 3/4 cup... are goats like people..the whole supply and demand thing..? I'm worried that the week she wasn't milked is going to make her dry up. She is such a trooper, after everything that has happened I know I have gotten a good milker anyway. Even if she dries up now I know I'll be able to breed her and get her milking properly next year...although I hope that I can just get her quantity up now. So hopefully I can pull Ovaltine through this cough, she hasn't got any scours, which is good and she eats really well...I'll keep you up to date tomorrow on how we all progress, thanks so much!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Did you get a temp on her? You should watch that... 

Glad ...you don't think it is milk aspirated... :thumb: 

Glad you have good mentors....you can't beat that... :wink: 

The cough may also be allergies....if her temp is normal....


I believe karo syrup does the same... as corn syrup...

sounds like your Doe is doing great in the stand...she is a good girl...  


And you are very welcome.......... :thumb: :hug: ray:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Wow sounds like quite the intro to goat ownership. 
Glad you not pregnant doe is milking well for you. 
Hope your baby improves. It is important like Pam suggested to get a temp.


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

WooHooo :clap: Truffles is a champ, lol! She jumps up on that stand like she's been doing it forever. This morning she gave me 2 full cups of milk. I am still wondering about the supply and demand of milk. I want to get Truffles' milk production up , so I milk her out in the morning, then at lunch I milk her again and then again in the evening...will this bring her milk up higher, or is there something else I should be doing? 
Ovaltine is doing very well. I made an herbal cough med for her with mullien, thyme and echinacea sweetened with a bit of honey and she isn't coughing as much and her scour meds seem to be getting that end less runny...she is eating and drinking well and is full of energy. She even went out to run around and do some acrobatics for us yesterday. Both of them have won over my "No Goat!" husband, :lovey: ! What is the normal temp of a kid ? Oh yeah!!! I wasn't sure how to keep Ovaltine warm at night so I made her a little goat coat!! I made it with polar fleece that doesn't unravel and she LOVES it!!!! She looks adorable in it, I made it yesterday and it has made a huge difference!! So, I think Ovaltine is going to be fine once she gets all of the moving and any "bug" out of her system and if I can get Truffles quantity up ...well, I'll just be  :clap: !! So if anyone can confirm on the quantity issue and the temp, I may be able to start a new thread "My unpregnant goat is a milker!" LOL!


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

I thought I'd give everyone an update on Truffles and Ovaltine. Truffles is milking like a champ and it is so enjoyable...and the milk is delicious, YEAY! Ovlatine is coming along beautifully and hasn't had any more scours for 2 full days and is so full of energy it is rediculous to watch her  . She still has a bit of her cough and my Pen G finally came in so I'll get her on that ...all the drama seems to be easing and I am finally having enough time to enjoy my goats. I am sooo thankful to everyone who has advised me through this turmoil, I don't know what I would have done without the help. :grouphug: I'm sure I'll have tons more questions and posts but hopefully they will be of the humorous or general knowledge type :thankU: !


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## milk and honey (Oct 31, 2010)

Sounds like you are doing GREAT!! So glad that your rough beginning has worked out so nicely... Having a milker that's ready to please you is such a blessing. They both sound just adorable.. do you have any pics for us?


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Sorry, I just saw this...hopefully your milking schedule will bring her back to a normal production. What you are getting is not that much for a full size goat. I get that from my NDG's. What are you feeding her? Alfalfa hay will help, and a grain mixed for milkers (mine is 16% protein). Milking is a great way to bond with your goats. I'm so glad she's been good...they can try your patience sometimes. lol


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## Frosty1 (Jul 12, 2011)

Yay! Glad everybody is doing well! To answer your question from earlier, I believe that there are polled LaManchas, however most of them are horned. And the white caps on the kids hooves fall off directly after birth.  It's probably just that she has white hooves.


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## potentialfarm (Apr 11, 2011)

I am so glad that you have a good-natured milker & your goats are doing so well!!! Truffles' milk supply was obviously interrupted, but it sounds like you are doing the right things to get it going again. :thumbup: 
Since you are administering an antibiotic, (you probably already know this, but just want to say...) it's really important to give her probiotics...help keep the good bacteria going...

As milk and honey already mentioned, we would LOVE pics of your girls!


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## ovaltine (Apr 15, 2012)

Alrighty then,  I am soo glad that everything is evening out...well...almost. Milk is increasing and Truffles is such a cuddly girl. Ovaltine got her first shot of pen G this morning and only made me feel like a little bit of a goat abuser by limping for a couple of minutes...then ran around like crazy as happy as a little goat can be with a whole yard and her own Rottweiler to play with :crazy: So tonight I milked and then noticed Ovaltine give her ear a little scratch.Upon checking it had dried puss on it. So I got a warm cloth and washed it and a big chunk of hard crap popped out and she was all happy and no more scratching. So perhaps she has an ear infection, but I'm thinking that the pen G will help that . Oh, and I don't have to pull my hair out because it seems both of the goats love my blonde hair and they chew it every chance they get,LOL!! I have a very uneven shag cut now. :laugh: At least they are starting to get along with each other and with the dog as well and they have even won my husband over :lovey: I'll post an update tomorrow on how the pen G is doing for the cough and ear ...for now I'm settling down for the night... :ZZZ:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad everything is going well for you! :thumb:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup:


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