# Nubian Disbudding



## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Okay, so these babies will be about 6 weeks old. They are both Nubian twins. (doeling and buckling who is soon to be wethered) 

The does bumps are very small, while the bucks is a little bigger. I'm almost positive it's not too late for these two for disbudding. Barbara (she sold me them) is going to tomorrow. 

Does anyone have a picture of Nubian tiny bumps at around this age or size of them so I can get an idea if it will cause scurring or not.

I realize that people are torn between horns and no horns but I have an 8 week old Boer X that was disbudded and is staying with the two nubians. I don't want her to be defenseless, so I'd rather have all of the disbudding or with horns. Since she's already disbudded, it'll be the all disbudded.

But Barbara didn't contact me, so I kept on trying to contact her. So I really really really really hope it's not too late. D:

Opinions? Pictures? I can't find any pictures :S


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

6 weeks -- no I wouldnt expect a clean disbud job after 3 weeks on a standard. Now if they were stunted then they could possibly cleanly disbudded but its not real likely.

I would have an experienced goat person check them out in person and determine if they are to big. If you can see the horns then they are to big to disbud.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> 6 weeks -- no I wouldnt expect a clean disbud job after 3 weeks on a standard. Now if they were stunted then they could possibly cleanly disbudded but its not real likely.
> 
> I would have an experienced goat person check them out in person and determine if they are to big. If you can see the horns then they are to big to disbud.


I can't exactly "see" them, but I can sure feel them.

Will a picture help? I'll get them soon.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I am surprised that you cant see them already at 6 weeks - but that goes in your favor to get them disbudded.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> I am surprised that you cant see them already at 6 weeks - but that goes in your favor to get them disbudded.


What are the chances of getting painful scurring? It is like an unavoidable thing? Because if so, I'll just do the doeling and leave the wether. Her's are very tiny.

I don't know! :hair: I'm somewhat scared of having horns. They are beautiful, and are a benefit to a lot of people and I've heard a lot of good things about them.

I'm just a wuss!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

scurs arent painful to the goats  and most scurs I have delt with are tiny and flimsy and they fall off then regrow then fall off etc


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> scurs arent painful to the goats  and most scurs I have delt with are tiny and flimsy and they fall off then regrow then fall off etc


Ohh, I thought I read somewhere it was painful. :roll: whoopsies.

But thanks. 

Does anyone have pictures??


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

pictures of what?


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

The size of Nubian buds at 4-6 weeks. So I can compare.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

well most people do disbud nubians before they are a week old due for show reasons and its easier to find them pet homes. so I dont think you will find many pictures. Maybe someone will read this who doesnt disbud though :shrug:


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

1/2 nubian doeling has not been disbudded yet. I can just bearly feel her buds and she will be 6 weeks on next Tuesday. The woman, who was not real experienced herself, told me that she was told that Nubians were slow to grow horns :shrug:


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

rebelshope said:


> 1/2 nubian doeling has not been disbudded yet. I can just bearly feel her buds and she will be 6 weeks on next Tuesday. The woman, who was not real experienced herself, told me that she was told that Nubians were slow to grow horns :shrug:


That's what I was told, but idk. She looks purebred for the most part but since she did come from a slaughterhouse no one knows what breed the buck was. :roll:


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## ProctorHillFarm (May 15, 2008)

we got our nubian doelings at a week old and promptly disbudded them a few days later- they had good size buds and I wouldnt have waited much past 2 weeks for them.

I cant imagine disbudding a 6 week old goat 

We had a buckling this year that we disbudded at a week and it was already too late- his horn base was too big, so now we are having to band his growing horns (he is NOT happy about it either!)


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

As long as they are not more than 1/2in tall AND you can get the entire bud in the hole on your iron then you should be fine. I would do a 7sec burn then a 5 sec burn and x the bud after.(I got more xp on this thx to the ag dep at the high school) if your iron wont fit around the bud then dont do it. unless you are gonna show the horns are less trouble than a scur later. and btw nubian doe horns are the slowest growing of the goat breeds. at 10 days old Cleo barely had anything. they could have been bug bites, but I did her neway.


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

empera

Here is the top of April's head at age 5 weeks, 6 days. She will be 6 weeks tomorrow.









I was going to shave around her buds but my clippers ran out of batteries.


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## Just Kiddin' (Nov 18, 2008)

I don't know how you made it to 6 weeks and don't see them yet especially on the buck. Nubians might be slower at growing their horns but they aren't THAT slow LOL. My babies were 1 week old yesterday and I disbudded them today. Once I shaved their heads you could already see perfect little horn buds just getting ready to break the skin. Mine don't get past a week old without getting disbudded. You can probably get a dehorner on them at 6 weeks but there's going to be scurs for sure especially on bucks.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

rebelshope said:


> empera
> 
> Here is the top of April's head at age 5 weeks, 6 days. She will be 6 weeks tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Rebel, are you keeping horns on April? That's what the little doe's looks like. Barely barely noticeable unless you really feel.

Thanks everyone!


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

No, I don't plan too. I just got her a few days ago, and the people I got her from never disbudded her because they could even feel any buds until a few days before I got her.

So for those of you who are saying that is too late, how can it be too late if there have not even been any buds until now?


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Just Kiddin' said:


> I don't know how you made it to 6 weeks and don't see them yet especially on the buck. Nubians might be slower at growing their horns but they aren't THAT slow LOL. My babies were 1 week old yesterday and I disbudded them today. Once I shaved their heads you could already see perfect little horn buds just getting ready to break the skin. Mine don't get past a week old without getting disbudded. You can probably get a dehorner on them at 6 weeks but there's going to be scurs for sure especially on bucks.


Seriously, on the doe you couldn't see them. I got her disbudded today, but the bucks were too big. You could see his a *little.*

I don't know why they are sooo slow. :shrug: But they are.

& I'm pretty sure that they aren't purebred Nubian. Of course it was a guess when they came from the slaughterhouse to the rescue organization, but they are growing extremely slow. I have a Boer X to compare to (horrible example haha) but when I took them all to see the rescue person, she said they look healthy but are maturing very slow, even for nubians. :?

Could they be mixed with a breed that is significantly smaller than Nubians, yet still look completely Nubian?

The buck weighs about 13-14 lbs. The doeling is probably at about 9 lbs.

Comments?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

coming from a slaughter house they probably didnt get the right neutrition when in mom and that makes a BIG difference on how fast they grow. Also if they didnt get colostrum then they will be slower growing. Another factor is their lines. Some nubian lines are MUCH slower growing and that possibly includes horn growth. 

The problem here in knowing how fast nubians horns grow on average is hard because like I said before 95% of nubians are disbudded and the earlier you do it the easier it is on the kids and the chances of scurs are less so most people will disbud in the first week of age. 

Everyone's experiences will be different. I had a pygmyXnigerian buck kid that was one of twins. He was disbudded at 3 weeks and I still couldnt really feel horn growth. But he was an itty bitty thing when born. So eventhough he was growing nicely and catching up (twin brother didnt make it into this world) due to being a single on his mom those horns just werent growing.

So it isnt straight across the board -- but on average a 6 week old kid is not able to be disbudded.


So you ddnt get your boy disbudded? I would watch him as he gets older and make sure you asert yourself as boss - do not let him do anythign now like head butting you in any form or pushing past you, jumping on you. I learned the hard way that if you let him do those things now he will decide he is the dominant one and especialy with him having horns you dont want him hurting you.


As to the breed: they could be a mix but I really doubt it if their ears are long and they have roman noses. But some people do mix them with boer and they still look very nubian or they can mix them with pygmy, nigerian or even other swiss breeds like alpine or oberhasli (but those owuld result in airplan ears).


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

How bout some pics to help with the id of em?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

empera said:


> Here is the top of April's head at age 5 weeks, 6 days. She will be 6 weeks tomorrow.


she posted a picture already


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> she posted a picture already


Stacey, that picture was of Rebel's doeling.  My babies pictures are on this topic: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8239

The black and tan goat is the little doeling. I couldn't get any good pictures :/ But the brownish/red with the black stripe is the soon to be wether.



StaceyRoop said:


> coming from a slaughter house they probably didnt get the right neutrition when in mom and that makes a BIG difference on how fast they grow. Also if they didnt get colostrum then they will be slower growing. Another factor is their lines. Some nubian lines are MUCH slower growing and that possibly includes horn growth.
> 
> So you ddnt get your boy disbudded? I would watch him as he gets older and make sure you asert yourself as boss - do not let him do anythign now like head butting you in any form or pushing past you, jumping on you. I learned the hard way that if you let him do those things now he will decide he is the dominant one and especialy with him having horns you dont want him hurting you.
> 
> As to the breed: they could be a mix but I really doubt it if their ears are long and they have roman noses. But some people do mix them with boer and they still look very nubian or they can mix them with pygmy, nigerian or even other swiss breeds like alpine or oberhasli (but those owuld result in airplan ears).


They were both born at the slaughter house but their mother was able to give them colostrum because she was there. (I sincerely hope.)

& The little boy should be fine, I won't encourage any negative behavior. I appreciate the advice.  It would have been too difficult to disbud him, seeing as his buds are really big (but not big for a 6 week old).

I have a Boer X that I got at the same time who is 2 1/2 weeks older, and man she is a giant compared to the nubians.. I was shocked, but it's supposed to be normal. She's supposedly crossed with Oberhasli, which you could see directly in the ears.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I have heard that you can wait longer on nubians because their skulls are thinner then other breeds and they dont grow as fast. I would make sure they arnt polled before. Im not even sure if nubians can be pulled but if you picked her up at an auction who knows what she has in her.
beth


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Does anyone have a guideline chart for Nubian weight along with their age? or Boer? around 6-8 weeks?

I took all the weights today. Could they be just slow growing or mixed with a smaller breed?

Boy: 14.3 lbs
Doeling: 10 lbs exactly.

& Boer X Ober (9 weeks): 25.5 lbs.


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

Cleo at 6 weeks is 24lbs. I would say yours are a bit small prolly xes of some type


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanatos said:


> Cleo at 6 weeks is 24lbs. I would say yours are a bit small prolly xes of some type


I'm behind a whole 10-14 pounds?! Oh my, they are healthy though. I hope it's a X of a smaller breed, because I don't want to think I'm doing anything wrong. Or that they didn't get enough colostrum when born in the slaughterhouse.


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## Thanatos (Mar 16, 2009)

as long as they are eating and playing, arent runnin fevers then they should be fine. Unless you are plannen to show or breed the size shouldn't matter. :greengrin: they are cute whether big or little.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Like I said before: some grow at a slower rate.

How many bottles are they getting a day? how much per feeding? Are you offering them grain and hay through the day? are they drinking water on their own from the bucket?


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

StaceyRoop said:


> Like I said before: some grow at a slower rate.
> 
> How many bottles are they getting a day? how much per feeding? Are you offering them grain and hay through the day? are they drinking water on their own from the bucket?


They are down to two bottles a day, 15% of their body weight in whole milk. They are offered hay 24/7 but no grain.

I haven't seen them drink from the bucket yet, but the water level has been going down so I'm suspecting they are trying to figure it out. They have no adult goats to learn from, so it will be a process.


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## sparks879 (Oct 17, 2007)

I dont think they are purebred. They are too dishy in the face and they have too much ear control. The boer cross especially has a lot of ear control. They look to be mixed with a swiss breded. Maybe and alpine or even a nigerian. 
beth


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

sparks879 said:


> I dont think they are purebred. They are too dishy in the face and they have too much ear control. The boer cross especially has a lot of ear control. They look to be mixed with a swiss breded. Maybe and alpine or even a nigerian.
> beth


I didn't know that Mini Nubians were a result of a lot of breeding of Nigerians and Nubians. I can see what you mean with the ear control, and that looks about the only thing that makes them look different (other than size) The Boer X is deff crossed with Oberhasli, the ears make that noticeable.

How much does a Nigerian weigh at 6 weeks? :scratch:


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

mine are about 15-20 pounds on average

when i had nubians we disbudded at 7 days.. the nigierians i do at 9


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Goodness, then I have no idea what they are mixed with! :scratch: Mini Nubians (of course not all the way "mini") would be great, as I wanted Nigerians in the first place.

I couldn't get past the ears, they are just too cute. :wink:


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Oh, I just remembered.

How often do the people disbudding your kids accidently burn an ear? A little piece of ear is hanging off the side of the little doeling. I'm frustrated. :veryangry:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I have yet to hit an ear -- but I hold the ears back out of the way and I have nigerians 

as long as it isnt infected then I wouldnt worry -- she will be fine.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Nope, it isn't infected. 

I think it happened because the lady didn't want me to help hold the doe because she thought I would pass out from the smell and everything going on. (I have a very strong gut, I want to be a vet for goodness sake! it would have been a great oppurtunity) So she went back into a secured area and I just stood outside. I was a little bummed. That sounds horrible, but I'll probably have to do it again in my life so why not witness it now?


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## Amy Goatress (Oct 2, 2008)

We started out with Nigerians but were too small to milk for us so we went with the Mini-Nubians.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

empera said:


> Nope, it isn't infected.
> 
> I think it happened because the lady didn't want me to help hold the doe because she thought I would pass out from the smell and everything going on. (I have a very strong gut, I want to be a vet for goodness sake! it would have been a great oppurtunity) So she went back into a secured area and I just stood outside. I was a little bummed. That sounds horrible, but I'll probably have to do it again in my life so why not witness it now?


oh thats strange -- was it a vets office or just a breeder? I always warn people that the kids will scream and it will smell but tell them if they want to learn I will teach them. Most of the time they want to learn.


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## Crissa (Oct 7, 2007)

Well I just disbudded both of my doelings, one was born on 4/4/09 and the other was on 3/20/09. And it went well taking them back in four weeks to get checked. My vet does a REALLY good job though, he did my buck too when he was little and so far only a TINY little scur that you can't even really see is there. :wink: The older doelings "horns" were fairly visible and the vet said that they should turn out okay just to bring them back to get checked in 4 weeks.


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## empera (Mar 21, 2009)

Stacey, it was a rescue organization, and the woman who founded it.



Amy Goatress said:


> We started out with Nigerians but were too small to milk for us so we went with the Mini-Nubians.


How much milk did you get with the Nigerians? Then how much from the Mini-Nubians?


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## Amy Goatress (Oct 2, 2008)

The Nigerians we got probably half a gallon from just one goat and we milk by hand! Some of our Mini-Nubians have given us close to a gallon of milk aday ( that is at just one milking too ), we get 2 quarts from each teat, morning and evening but some give less than that at their peak though.


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## rebelshope (Sep 21, 2008)

Just an update on my lttle nubian that was starting to grow horns. It was a false alarm, she is polled!


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