# Aggressive buckling behavior / Handling bucks in general



## FullMoonFarm-Ky (Jan 15, 2014)

Hello everyone. I've had my goats for about 1 month now, and I have been actively reading all the posts on here. I have a question about buckling behavior. 

Ace is a registered boer that is about 4 months old. In just the month I have had him he has really started to pack some muscle on and is really growing. That is great and all, but I'm starting to get a little worried as to what this might mean once he gets a little older. He was already harder to handle than the others; 2 does are practically like pets and will jump up on you. One doe isn't as friendly, but once you put grain in her bin she doesn't care what you do to her - checking her out, giving shots, etc. 

The buck on the other hand, he has always been skiddish, even when I fed him. I kinda had to corner him and chase him down to administer meds. Now he is getting more aggressive - harder to catch, more resistant, etc. he even caught me with one of his horns the other night. It wasn't bad but made my knuckle bleed. If I'm on the outside of his pen he jumps up on the side of the stall and butts the air in the direction of my hand. And ofcourse if I move he jumps back, bucks around, and might occasionally stomp. 

I'm sure most of this is normal for a young buck of his age, but I am wondering if there is anything special anyone does to put their buck at ease, to work them, to entice them to be calm (with treats), etc. I can still catch and work the little booger right now, but if he keeps growing at the pace he is and stays aggressive, he is going to be quite the handful when he gets bigger and older. 

Thanks,
Rusty


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## TheMixedBag (Oct 16, 2010)

The first thing you need to address is the aggression issue. Reprimanding him when he does something out of line (threatens you, hits you, bucks or kicks at you, etc.) will teach him that you "hit" harder than he does and things are much easier if he treats you as alpha. Once you've established that you're top dog and you can hurt him more than he can hurt you, reward the good behavior, whether it's with a treat or simply leaving him be (aka taking the pressure off of him). 

My boer buck did the same thing around the same age, but he was far more aggressive, to the point that I was about to put him in the freezer. We put him in a pen by himself away from goats, dogs, people, everyone. He was watered from a distance (the hose can shoot a good 20-30 feet) and hay was tossed over the fence for him. After a week of isolation, he decided people were OK after all and now he's calm, quiet and easy to handle, though he's still a bit spooky and will occasionally forget his manners and get a bit pushy with his horns. 

If a simple yell or smack doesn't do the trick, try water in a spray bottle (or vinegar), twisting his ear, or a hot shot. A buck I work with is exceptionally dangerous (not aggressive initially, but will slam you into the fence and hold you there to "love" on you) and will smash you for trying to correct him. The only thing that works is a hotshot to the head/neck or flank area, whichever he presents first. He's been dropped and sat on numerous times, it only serves to piss him off (sorry for the language, but it's quite literally the most accurate description-he pees on himself, paws the ground and smashes into you).


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## Cedar Point Kikos (Oct 16, 2013)

I had a buck doing that, well, 2 bucks. Our first one and our second one. Sold both of them. One to a market. The other to people I knew could handle him. 

The first buck (Bucko, G. Sire of Anja) would rear up at me. That's scary! But I acted like I would smack him, by taking a step toward him every time he did that and he never actually hit me.

The second was Daisy's first buck. A real nice looking guy. He would just do little 'tests'. Nothing major. I would grab the base of a horn and give him a smack.

Just try not to let him know you're scared of him! He'll pick that up and run with it.


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## wambo3419 (Sep 26, 2013)

Take time to get to know him and to let him get to know you. My first buck I got at 9 months. I used a lot of treats to reinforce behaviors and build a relationship with him. He also learned that when his name was yelled he better quit what he was doing. I think the person I got him from used to spank him with sticks so he would back away even from a twig. (so that helped for sometime with other family members)

Now that he's young establish yourself as stronger. My buck (George) challenged my dad once he got him by the horns and dropped him to the ground and he never tried it again. that might work for you too. 

Just try things and see what works best for you. I'm going through the same thing as you. My brother brought a 2 year old buck home so now I'm starting over again.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

The key is to show them some respect and love, while at the same time showing them that YOU are the boss, not him or any other goat......
I very much think that bucks that are given lots of love and treated very gently and respectfully from birth are more gentle and respectful to you in return. Kind of like the "you're nice to me so I'll be nice to you" scenario. It's like training dogs, you have to display leadership, but in a way that makes the dogs love and listen to you in the process.......


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

I've had a few bucks around. Both borrowed and raised. The ones I've raised have been a lot better than the ones I borrowed. I don't claim to be an expert, but I don't mind sharing my thoughts. I don't mess with their head unless I have to. I pet my buck kids, but always behind their withers. I don't feed treats to my buck kids. I've had better luck basically ignoring *early* signs of bad behavior than trying to do anything about it. If I want to catch a buck, I first feed them and catch them while they are eating. You might think that a buck would be protective of his food and be naughty at this time, but that is not my experience. If there is something I have to do with them, I just do it and don't make a big deal over it. For me, if I treat them with respect and calm and don't "mess" with them, they don't mess with me either. The "top dog" thing doesn't work at my farm. What works for me is "there is no dog", just a goat and a guy that feeds the goats. If I have a young buck kid rear up at me, I ignore him. You can argue they are offering to fight, but I've found if you don't respond, no contract to fight exists. The biggest mistakes I've made is when I've lost my temper and man handled a buck kid in the wrong way over bucky behavior. This is not the same as restraining them for a shot or worming. They forgive you for that. If you have no choice but to use force, make sure you are going to win. But try to avoid this stuff when you can. I have Boers if that makes any difference.


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## FullMoonFarm-Ky (Jan 15, 2014)

After reading your alls responses, it sounds like my buckling is quite typical. That is good to know!

So after reading your responses, I would like to take this conversation a set further... how do you work full-grown bucks who are big and strong? Do you break them to lead when they are young so you can always throw a collar on then, do you always try to corner them and grab their horns, do you run then through a calf chute, or do you just not mess with them as much as the girls?

I am attaching a picture if Ace, as well as his ennobled Dad. If Ace ends up anything like his Dad, I'm going to be a little nervous working him for meds and stuff.

I was raised on a farm with angus cattle and was always a little nervous after I got bucked by a bull and run through a fence by a CRAZY cow, so goats don't make me as nervous as cattle, but some of these bucks get huge!!

Pic 1 - Ace







Pic 2 - His ennobled Dad!


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

My buck was a bottle baby an wants attention all the time. I tried the ignoring thing with him an that's when he gets pushy. If you try to pet him he gets even more pushy. Walk away from him an he will just follow you until you stop then wants to push an rub on you. An when I say push he pushes. The more you ignore him the more aggressive he gets. He starts biting, jumping up on his hind legs, an catching you off guard to butt you. So now I carry a equalizer stick with me. When he starts his swaggering gait towards me. wagging his tail with his head up an doesn't stop I show him the stick an he usually leaves me be an just follows me around at a distance, if showing him the stick doesn't work I just pop him on the end of the nose an he starts to remember his manners.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

It's best to teach them to lead and have manners from an early age. You can try to teach older bucks, but they might be more stubborn about it.
No matter their age, you have to teach them that you're their friend. Not a friend that they can push around and beat up, but a friend they enjoy being around and getting loved by, and a friend they respect . You actually want them to fear you slightly, just a little so they know you're not a pushover.
I consider rough handling bucks a last resort if all else fails, because if you cause them pain or really scare them, you'll be more of an enemy to them and they could fight back and challenge you as a result.
Also remember that all bucks have different temperaments, some are always sweet, some are always evil, and a lot just seem to have their moments.
They also have different reactions to punishment; a gentle slap on the nose might be enough for one, while another buck would have to be thrown and sat on to get it through his thick head! And keep in mind that almost all bucks are moodier during rut or when there's does in heat......


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

FullMoonFarm-Ky said:


> ... how do you work full-grown bucks who are big and strong? Do you break them to lead when they are young so you can always throw a collar on then, do you always try to corner them and grab their horns, do you run then through a calf chute, or do you just not mess with them as much as the girls?


I never mess with my bucks unless I have to. I never grab any goat by the horns unless I have no other choice - it really annoys them! They are not broke to lead, but they will usually follow a grain bucket. I have 2 or 3 strategically placed areas where I can put any goat I need to restrain for any reason behind a gate that swings back and can be fastened to a fence so they cannot escape. I can then put a halter on them, treat, tag, whatever I need to do. Push comes to shove, I can put them in the sweep tub and squeeze them down with the gate. I've never had to do that, though, and it is a last resort because if they go down, it is difficult to get the gate open to let them out.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

My bucks are all trained to lead and will follow me where ever I want them to go, even into a crate or the back of a car. I have never had a nasty buck in 30+ years of raising goats because I will not tolerate it. They learn at an early age that I am boss. I have never had to be mean to them to teach that lesson either. I do what the lead doe would do and sort of butt them with my knee. If one decides to test me later on when he is older, I use a squirt bottle sprayed on the face.


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## FullMoonFarm-Ky (Jan 15, 2014)

GoatCrazy - Your responses to my new questions have kinda been out of style, or 1/2 opposite to the norm, but your direction has been spot on what my Dad says. And he raises cattle!

Always enjoy your posts and responses. 

What do you mean you have strategic places to corner them? If you're going through that much trouble, why not push them through a corral like cattle?

As for you saying you don't mess with your buck much, how do you check his eyes for worms? My buck scares me a bit... so are you more hands off and don't vaccinate your buck as much as your ladies?

Do tell...


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah you definitely want to stop his behavior ASAP. You could try to tame him. if he does hurt you intentionally you can punish with water, a smack, or a lead rope or a hotshot. You could also tell him "no" when you punish him.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

FullMoonFarm-Ky said:


> What do you mean you have strategic places to corner them? If you're going through that much trouble, why not push them through a corral like cattle?
> 
> As for you saying you don't mess with your buck much, how do you check his eyes for worms? My buck scares me a bit... so are you more hands off and don't vaccinate your buck as much as your ladies?
> 
> Do tell...


Thank you! Yes, I have an unusual take on raising goats. Because all of the corrals are full. Ok, let me see if I can explain this. My place used to be a feed lot so the pens are arranged in 3 banks, each of which are divided by 70' wide alleys. The middle bank of pens have been converted for my goats, and I also have 2 pens in the west bank of corrals. To run a sick goat into my makeshift chute would require getting said goat across the alley way and through at least one pen that has goats in it. So, instead of doing that, I just run them into the alleyway off the far side of the west bank of pens and shut them behind a gate that swings back and can be fastened to the load out chute fence.

I don't vaccinate anything except the wethers when I band them. I did the CD&T vaccinations when I first started out, but still lost kids to enterotoxemia. I did some research and found out that CD&T is only a preventative measure - it is not 100% effective. I still lose the occasional kid to enterotoxemia, but no more than I lost when I did vaccinate. No, I don't check my goats eyelids - I go by coat, body condition, and overall health. They are dry-lotted 24/7/365 so I don't have much of a parasite issue. If you were to google FAMANCHA I believe you would find that it is only indicative of barber pole worms and is not a reliable means of determining whether other worms are present or not.

What breed of cows does/did your Dad raise? My Dad was a cattle rancher for 60 years or so. We raised registered Murray Greys.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

DMSMBoers said:


> When he starts his swaggering gait towards me. wagging his tail with his head up an doesn't stop....


I've noticed the tail thing to. It's a dead giveaway they're thinking about something. Not always good.


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## FullMoonFarm-Ky (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for the responses everyone. 

GoatCrazy - My Dad raises black angus beef cattle. We have a herd of 2 registered bulls and about 80 head of commercial cows. It's a lot of work but I enjoy it too. Plan on getting a few cows at my new farm once I get these goats squared away!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Handling a buck by his horns especially is a big no no. I don't even use the doe's horns as handles but briefly if I have to to get a lead on them.
We only had one semi aggressive buck for awhile. He was OK with me in his pen but he perceived Bob as a threat; posturing & getting between him & me. That dude walked into hot shot twice & he never did it again. He learned real quick what "*Get back!*" meant.
Always always be extra careful when removing does from the buck pen!
Any other time we handle the buck I bring some grain, grab his beard & get a collar on.


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## suzyprichard13 (Jun 19, 2013)

Honestly I get your frustration my buck is 358 pounds and you can't just not handle them as much because what happens when your girls are in there and your intimidated and hitting them harder to prove dominance because they will always test it but as far as mine went I went in the pen all the time because if they think you only go in there when your doing stuff like trimming feet or shots etc. they won't be happy teaching him to lead or even come to his name is supper nice and if he starts acting up while leading him spin in a circle and continue try best way to teach them to lead is treats because the first time they usually freak out


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree no no on the horns. Your buck sounds a lot like my first buck. He basically just wanted to be left alone so I did leave him alone. If he got a attitude I got one that was worse.....may be mean to some but he would get his butt paddled or on his biggest jerk spree got a hot shot. When it was time to do something with him...feet trimmed and such I have my stand thing and I would pour grain out by it then put a rope on him and drag him to get his head in the in the gate thing. Basically what it comes down to is don't let him win. Mine got very big and strong and I'm little so yeah he drug me around but in the end of our little war I still won . 
I think with the way he is acting you don't really want to encourage being a pet.....other then my buck that was bottle fed and is a pet the other two are there and I treat them no different then the does I have that would much rather be left alone.


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## packhillboers (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh he is still young enough for you to train and work. Maybe it is best to try to get him to trust you with treats.. then a lead rope and maybe this can't be accomplished until you first let him know that you are boss and try to do that in the gentlest way you possibly can. I would start by going into his pen often & see if he decides to challenge you which is usually how they play. I had a little buck like this. He decided that he would challenge me when I came into his pen and was ready to knock me down. I would just turn around and face him directly, say a loud , "NO" and if that didnt work he got a spray of water right at his face and an ear pull.. well that still didnt work so I had to resort to harsher things as that just made him want to fight more. So... he ran to the end of the pen and came bounding full speed ahead towards me to intimidate me. I just stood still, facing him directly and yelled "NO" again. Up went his legs and I pulled out a whip and smacked him good across the chest and yelled No. . This little episode went on and on for about 5 more times. But guess what..... I won ... finally. I come into the pen the next day and he sees that I have no willow switch in my hand so I can see that he is thinking about a challenge again.. I quickly correct him with the word.. "NO" before he starts.. so he stops and then he gets a good boy back rub for a reward. Each time he obeyed, he would get a 'Good Boy" and if he rared up to head butt me.. out from my pocket I would pull out this skinny flex whip.. oh .. surprised he was-as he didnt think I had anything to whip him with. . I don't let him touch me or rub up against me at all. He is not to initiate any contact. I will decide when he gets the neck or back rub and he is not to ask me for it or be pushy about it. Now he is doing so well and needs no more than just a verbal reminder if he is getting to close and pushy.. I say.. "Get Back" and he obeys and I say.. "Good boy" and pat him on the back. It has been several months now and he has been on super good behavior and I am in the pen with him often working. He is still a young buck tho.. so we will see how he does as time goes on but I have been able to earn his respect and take him for walks. He has come to know that I am kind to him and that I do like him but he has to have respect for me as a human.


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## RhinoWhite (Nov 17, 2013)

Wouldn't there be a difference between "play aggression" and "real aggression" like one also finds in dogs?


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## 4seasonsfarm (Jan 22, 2014)

With goats aggression towards human sis more serious. But fighting among the herd is more like an fight to see who is the alpha male or queen bee


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