# Preventing urinary calculi



## ergy86 (Aug 10, 2013)

What is the best way to prevent urinary calculi in wethered Pygmy goats? We recently had to put our very first wether down due to being hopelessly blocked up. We have 2 other 12 week old wethers now and I want to do everything possible to prevent that from happening to them.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

In the pack world, its generally agreed that you can feed a pack wether alfalfa upto about a year old before switching his feed to a grass or grass mix. Not sure if that translates the same for pygmy's. But you can start combating UC by giving them Ammonium chloride either in their feed or water or mineral mix.


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## Jodi_berg (Oct 29, 2012)

It's not totally about what you feed, it's the balance, you need to figure out your ca: ph levels. Alfalfa can be fed a goat entire lifetime, it's unlikely you would have any problems with it. Most of stones that block up goats are phosphorus stones from to many things like grains,corn,sunflower seeds, nuts,crackers. You need to keep the balance at about 2.5-3ca: 1 ph. Most grass hay is very low on calcium. Mine is 1.6:1 so I have to add alfalfa just to pull things up. If they get a little grain everyday, make sure they get some alfalfa everyday. Most wethers get calculi for a couple of different reason, one being genetics and early castration the other being lack of long fiber in their diets. Show wethers are especially at risk due to all the grain they are fed. If a goat get a good varied diet it's unlikely you'll have problems.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Pet pygmies don't need any grain. The best hay for bucks and wethers is usually alfalfa mix. Straight alfalfa hay is 5:1 calcium phosphorus, so a little high on the calcium side. Straight grass hay can be low in calcium, and high in phosphorus (sometimes 1:1). So, combine the two, and you should be just about right. Always err on the side of a little more calcium.

If they are getting grass hay, give them alfalfa pellets, a half cup daily is what I would give my Nigerian Dwarves.

I am SO sorry you went through this. :hug: Also be sure their minerals have ammonium chloride in them, like Manna Pro does. You can add a bit of ACV to their water (Apple Cider Vinegar), but be sure you leave a plain bucket out there too, in case they decide not to like the ACV. You can add juice to their water to encourage them to drink more too.


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## ergy86 (Aug 10, 2013)

Thank you so much for all the information! We are definitely new to having goats as pets and are learning as we go! 
We were totally heartbroken to put our little Sarge down especially since he was only 3 years old.
Thanks again for all your help!


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## OakHollowRanch (Jun 6, 2013)

We feed our pet Nubian wether aflalfa, ammonium chloride, and plenty of fresh clean water! No grain for the boys. Sorry for your loss.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

A calciumhos ratio of 2.5:1 or 3:1 is best. I feed all my bucks alfalfa their entire lives. I only use AC on wethers I am growing for freezer camp because I don't waste the alfalfa on them.

Grass hay and most of the cereal grains are very high in phosphorus with very little calcium. Feeding those without added calcium is what causes the UC.

In 30+ years of goats (both meat and dairy) I have never had a case of UC in any of my goats. My core herd stay with me usually until they die of old age.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

All these ratios are a little complicated sounding to me, haha. I'd like to know if my 5 1/2 month old buckling is at risk.
I feed him 1 to 1 1/2 pounds of grain/BOSS/alfalfa a day, and he gets as much hay as he wants, as we don't have grazing room, as well as fresh Manna Pro every day or every other day(sometimes he doesn't wan them).
I'm considering putting ACV in his water, but I wasn't sure how much, or if it was needed? 
:thankU: for any advice.


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Byccombe, the ratio basically means they need twice as much calcium as phosphorus.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

How would I go about finding out how much is in my grain and alfalfa? I mean, I can look at the tag, but I don't know if it's on there, and we sometimes get alfalfa in pellets, sometimes bales, so IDK what the difference is or how to find out? Sorry if that sounds dumb. 

I sometimes feel like it all amounts to something like: test your soil, hay, feed, water and everything else you can think of and add it together, then divide it by the % of this or that, multiplied by the amount of whatever, minus the weight equals something like what you need,maybe, depending on a hundred different conditions that could be one way or another depending on where you live. Lol, sorry.  :lol:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Byccombe said:


> I sometimes feel like it all amounts to something like: test your soil, hay, feed, water and everything else you can think of and add it together, then divide it by the % of this or that, multiplied by the amount of whatever, minus the weight equals something like what you need,maybe, depending on a hundred different conditions that could be one way or another depending on where you live. Lol, sorry.  :lol:


Actually, if you want to get technical and do it "right", then yes, you would do all that.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If you want to tell me how much of each thing he is getting and the type of hay, I can help you figure out the ratios. 
The vinegar won't hurt anything. Just a splash in their water bucket. It's an interesting compound because it balances the system to neutral. If the blood PH is high, it brings it down. If the blood PH is low, it brings it up.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Well, actually I intend to, but it's hard to figure it all out, especially when you're kind of a newbie.  we'd never had livestock of any kind before the goats, and I'm only just now learning about them, so it's all kind of new and a little overwhelming to me.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Sorry, posted at the same time.

Thank you goathiker, I will see if I can come up with some more exact numbers!  Might take me a little while though.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

That's fine. I'm just checking in every so often while I'm 'working'. This fence is going up sooo slow for some reason


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Lol.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Alright this is the grain were feeding.









And here the back of the mineral bag (Manna Pro)

The alfalfa pellets we usually get are 17% protein.

And he also gets BOSSm mixed in.
Okay, so the goal is to give him the grain, Boss, and alfalfa all mixed together to equal aprox. 2 pounds a day. :/ I don't know if it's alway exactly that much cause we take turns feeing, and I don't know if the others are as specific as me.  but that's what I feed him.  Do you need any other info?


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## kbluebkeman (Jul 22, 2013)

Can someone tell me what shredded beet pulp contributes? Do many of you out there use it?


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

kbluebkeman said:


> Can someone tell me what shredded beet pulp contributes? Do many of you out there use it?


Um, I don't know the answer to that, but I think you might get more answers if you start a new thread.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Beet Pulp contributes fiber and carbs. It is a poor source of nutrition. It is good because it is a plant fiber and carbs not grain so you can use it for weight gain in a grass fed program. It is a calcium source as well but only contains .8 CA.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Your minerals are good. Your grain is 1:1 so, you mix equal amounts of alfalfa to grain to equal out the ratio. That's a nice grain mix by the way, I like it. It does have a lot of corn in it so be careful not to over feed it. 
So, grain 1:1 Alfalfa 5:1 usually though only about 4 parts of that is digestable calcium. One part of each 5+1=6 1+1=2 
because we added 2 things together 2 goes into 6 3 times and 2 goes into 2 1 time...So your ratio is 3:1 it's not exact this way. I'll do that tonight when it's not 90 degrees in the house.


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## Texaslass (May 15, 2013)

Haha, I think it's 90 degrees in here too. Lol

I don't think we'll be over feeding this grain cause its pretty expensive, so we are trying to feed as little as possible to save. 
I'm glad you like it, nice to know its approved!  They love the corn in it.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

kbluebkeman said:


> Can someone tell me what shredded beet pulp contributes? Do many of you out there use it?


Beet pulp contributes about 11% protein, fiber, helps with feed conversion, increases water intake if you soak it prior to feeding, some vitamins and minerals I believe, and a few other things I have since forgotten. It can be substituted for up to 1/2 of the daily hay ration for horses - not sure if that is true for goats or not, though. It is really a rather amazing feed when you consider everything it does.


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