# my baby is sick!



## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Our little three month old nigerian doe, Pixie somehow must have overeaten or gotten into something bad, though I don't know what, because her poor tummy is huge, her poop is runny, and she was lying down looking listless and lethargic. I tried baking soda and milk of magnesia. She was refusing either, and we had to try stuffing it down her. She didn't really get much of either though. Is there any way I can get more down, how much mom should I give her and is there anything else I can do? Thanks!


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Try liquid dish soap in warm water. A table spoon or two in a 20 ounce pop bottle is all you will need and she doesnt even need to drink it all. Try to get 1/4 to 1/3 down her. Then elevate her front end so she can burp easier. Rub, pat and gently shake her belly. She should start to burp almost instantly.

Add the soap to the warm water and swirl. Dont put the soap in first or all you will get is suds.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> Try liquid dish soap in warm water. A table spoon or two in a 20 ounce pop bottle is all you will need and she doesnt even need to drink it all. Try to get 1/4 to 1/3 down her. Then elevate her front end so she can burp easier. Rub, pat and gently shake her belly. She should start to burp almost instantly. Add the soap to the warm water and swirl. Dont put the soap in first or all you will get is suds.


Dish soap huh? Wow, learn something new everyday


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

LuvMyNigies said:


> Our little three month old nigerian doe, Pixie somehow must have overeaten or gotten into something bad, though I don't know what, because her poor tummy is huge, her poop is runny, and she was lying down looking listless and lethargic. I tried baking soda and milk of magnesia. She was refusing either, and we had to try stuffing it down her. She didn't really get much of either though. Is there any way I can get more down, how much mom should I give her and is there anything else I can do? Thanks!


Do you have a syringe, or a turkey baster works too. That's how my sick kids usually get their meds. If you are using MOM don't use the baking soda. The MOM & apparently dish soap works too to bind the toxins and help get rid of them.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

CD antitoxin would be helpful...the milk of magnesia will help bind any toxins and flush them out..BUT you must keep her hydrated..the loose poop will not firm up while on MOM...keeing her well hydrated is very important..even if yu have to tube her!
Yes, and get her tummy moving knead, bounce, jiggle...move it and get things moving...probiotics will help as well...you want her burping, gassing and starting to feel better...I had a load of weened bucks get on their mom...BOY OH BOY they look like road kill all plumped up!!...It took a few hours of the kids and I walking bouncing, juggling and kneading the rumen side to get them thorugh it..along with cd antitoxin and baking soda...this can take a while...be patient...Once she is all better, use pepto to dry her bum...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> The MOM & apparently dish soap works too to bind the toxins and help get rid of them.


Acually the Dish soap is for bloat : ) it does nothing for the toxins...:wink:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

happybleats said:


> Acually the Dish soap is for bloat : ) it does nothing for the toxins...:wink:


Good to know.. I still keep learning something everyday on this site, first time I heard of using dish soap...


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

janeen128 said:


> .....dish soap works too to bind the toxins and help get rid of them.


Dish soap or laundry detergent does not bind toxins, they reduce the surface tension on gas bubbles so they break easier.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

janeen128 said:


> Good to know.. I still keep learning something everyday on this site, first time I heard of using dish soap...


If you've got a sick animal and you're out of probios, yeast will do the same thing because of the live cultures in it.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I don't think I would try that with all the chemicals in it.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

GoatCrazy said:


> If you've got a sick animal and you're out of probios, yeast will do the same thing because of the live cultures in it.


This is also good to know... Thanks!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Wouldn't try what, Zebra?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

The dish soap. I'm all for home remedies, but that sounds like a bad idea.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

LuvMyNigies said:


> Our little three month old nigerian doe, Pixie somehow must have overeaten or gotten into something bad, though I don't know what, because her poor tummy is huge, her poop is runny, and she was lying down looking listless and lethargic. I tried baking soda and milk of magnesia. She was refusing either, and we had to try stuffing it down her. She didn't really get much of either though. Is there any way I can get more down, how much mom should I give her and is there anything else I can do? Thanks!


Take note: "because her poor tummy is huge"

Huge tummy equals bloat. Bad enough bloat will make them barf and poop as the pressure inside their gut gets so extreme to start pushing out things from both ends. Thus the need for something to get rid of the bloat fast. Dish soap in warm water, elevate, rub, pat, done.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Yeah, I would be a little hesitant to use an anti-bacterial dish soap, but I wouldn't have a problem in the world using plain old detergent.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

"May cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, diarrhea." That doesn't sound like something that's good when they already have stomach problems. Also says to call Poison Control for more than a teaspoon or so.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

zebradreams07 said:


> The dish soap. I'm all for home remedies, but that sounds like a bad idea.


Dish soap isnt a home remedy. Other then a few additives, its the exact same compound as therabloat and does the exact same thing. Bloat is made up of thousands of tiny bubbles that the goat cant pop and then burp or fart. Using liquid dish soap or therabloat mixes with the tiny bubbles and drawing them together to make large bubbles that the goat can then burp. When you elevate the goat and rub, tap and kneed their belly, you are helping this happen and to help move the bubbles to the top so they can be burped out. A goat with a case of bloat so bad that it is puking and can hardly breath, can be saved in as little as 5 minutes using this method but typically doing this for upwards of 30 mintues is recommended.

Here is a small blurb on what can cause bloat.
There are a number of reasons why a goat will suddenly begin to bloat. One should first know that bloating can be a serious condition which if left untreated, can result in death to the goat. 
One of the most commonly reported causes of bloat is simply due to overeating; a goat that raids the feed bin is a likely candidate. These escape artists will from time to time, find their way to a grain bin and consume as much grain as if they are starving. The result is a goat that becomes uncomfortably bloated and usually unable and unwilling to get up. On the other hand, raiding the hay bin for cured hay or grass hay is not likely to cause bloat as a goat has a daily fiber requirement that is greater than grain.

Another cause not mentioned is very high protein feed can cause it as well. That was our problem last year when we fed our animals some alfalfa that was 31% protein. We didnt know it was that hot, nor did the grower. We lost 2 does in an hour and had to treat sever does over the next comply of months as we tried to find a happy medium to mixing this hay with lower quality hay.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

GoatCrazy said:


> Yeah, I would be a little hesitant to use an anti-bacterial dish soap, but I wouldn't have a problem in the world using plain old detergent.


I believe this will be my 4th time mentioning this in posts about bloat.

You can use anti bacterial liquid dish soap with no issues as you are not using enough to effect a goats rumin. BUT if you are like me, I dont like to take a risk if I dont have to. So I buy soap that isnt anti bacterial just for this purpose.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

zebradreams07 said:


> "May cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, diarrhea." That doesn't sound like something that's good when they already have stomach problems. Also says to call Poison Control for more than a teaspoon or so.


If you have a decent livestock vet, I challenge you to call him and ask. Its the fastest acting thing you can use to cure bloat other then sticking a huge needle through their side, into their gut.

And will point out, they are not getting even a full table spoon if mixed like I said above. Even if you gave them the entire 20 oz. bottle, which you would never need to do to, that would still only be 1/3 to 2/3 of a teaspoon.

Now with the upset stomach, nausea, diarrhea they speak of is for humans not goats. I have never seen one ill side effect from using dish soap. In fact, once they are deflated  they go right back to eating.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Therabloat is poloxalene. Dish soap is primarily sodium laureth sulfate, TEA-dodecylbenzenesulfonate, and ethanol, plus all the additives (which are mostly what worry me.) How is that the same thing?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Tell you what, go ahead and drink it yourself and tell me how you feel. Then I'd feel comfortable using it on my goats.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, now I know what takes care of bloat. Will add that to my list to get, not antibacterial stuff for just I'm case


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

zebradreams07 said:


> Tell you what, go ahead and drink it yourself and tell me how you feel. Then I'd feel comfortable using it on my goats.


Tell you what, go head and watch your goat explode and then tell me you wouldnt of use it.

And if I ever have gas bad enough that its starts making puke and crap, ill use it and let you know


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

In theory, if stuff starts coming out either end the gas should follow at some point. But I'll go ahead and pick up some Therabloat so I don't have to worry.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

zebradreams07 said:


> "May cause gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, diarrhea." That doesn't sound like something that's good when they already have stomach problems. Also says to call Poison Control for more than a teaspoon or so.


You don't need to use that much. A drop or two of dish soap or a hefty pinch of laundry detergent mixed with water will do the trick. You don't need anywhere near a teaspoon.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

TDG-Farms said:


> Bloat is made up of thousands of tiny bubbles that the goat cant pop and then burp or fart. Using liquid dish soap or therabloat mixes with the tiny bubbles and drawing them together to make large bubbles that the goat can then burp. When you elevate the goat and rub, tap and kneed their belly, you are helping this happen and to help move the bubbles to the top so they can be burped out.


So....if the idea is to get rid of all the tiny bubbles why not just use oil? Add a squirt of oil to your bubble bath and watch all the foam and bubbles disappear in seconds. Oil would also promote pooping... just asking...


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Actually oil is a common used liquid as well. I have just found that the soap works so fast and well, there is no need to add oil. Some people also use gas X and have had good success. Soap is by no means the only option. But usually you come upon a goat with bloat towards the end of it. So you want what ever you use to work as soon as possible. There is nothing more disturbing to watch then a goat on the verge of having its organs crushed from the inside. So I use the fasted acting thing I know of. But I welcome everyone to use what works for them. And although it may have sounded like I was trying to sell the use of soap, I wasnt. I was just trying to extinguish any concerns about using it. I have literally given it to 100+ goats over the last 15 years. It has saved every last one of them without the slightest hint of any side effects or issues afterwords.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Ahhh...that makes sense. I was just curious especially since so many seemed appalled by the use of soap.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

There are many different points of view on goat issues...different ideas does not necessarly make one wrong over the other...lets try to keep the post about the issue at hand, if you need further discussion on the use use of soap..Private message might be better...Thank you : )


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I can't remember the name of the stuff they give babies when they have gas colic, but it is a mild soap too and people have given it to infants for years. Simethicone that is what it is called. It obviously isn't the same as dish soap but it is a mild soap. And it has the same purpose to make the bubbles easier to pop. 
I guess if I had a goat bloated bad enough I would try the dish soap. I keep some cheap dish soap on hand for cleaning cages and things outside that isn't as strong as regular dish soap it is very watered down off brands. It would be my choice if I was going to try this. 
Thanks for the tip Dave, it may not be one everyone would want to try and that is understandable, but I, for one am glad to have the information.


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## billyjane (Nov 11, 2013)

NubianFan said:


> I can't remember the name of the stuff they give babies when they have gas colic.


It's called gripe water. Can be found at any grocery store or Target, & Walmart in the baby medicine section. Used for both my children when they were gassy or had bad hiccups, they loved it. Some parents use chamomile tea for the same purposes for their babies. Not sure if it's okay for a goat but both are safe for infants.


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Okay. Thank you all so much! I think I'll try the dish soap. One thing that wasn't too clear was how much water to give. Do I just fill up the 20 oz. bottle? 
Also, If neither the dish soap nor the MOM bind the toxins, what does? Should I start feeding her again if/when her tummy "deflates?" 
I hope I don't give them feed too high in protein. I believe my mix is in the twenties (26% ?). Someone said she needed to be kept hydrated: I did see her drink some, but how do I tell if she is getting enough? Oh yeah, and was the syringe or turkey baster for trying to force the stuff down her?
(I'm sorry if these questions were already answered and I just missed them 
Thanks again for all of your help!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

MOM will bind the toxins, that I know. The soap and water is used to help with bloat, so the gas won't build up in there system and they can get rid of it. I made the mistake of lumping them together, for that I apologize...so MOM or CD antitoxin is to help bind the toxins, and the soap and water is to help get rid of the bloat...


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

For dehydration. Pull up her skin around her neck, is it kind of "stiff" or does it go right back down? If it is "stiff" she's dehydrated, if not then she's okay. Usually if anyone is sick on my farm (including the chickens) they will get drenched a couple times a day, I don't even usually do the test honestly, but that's just me. If I see the bucket of water almost gone, then I won't


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## Chopsgoats (Aug 20, 2013)

I had a 6 month old kid get loose and eat everything he wasn't suppose to eat. This was about 13 yrs ago. He started to bloat really bad I thought he was going to explode!!!! My breeder was not available and I was panicking . I drove down the road and talked to the old dairy farmer, he told me he used dish soap for his cows and said it will work quickly. My kid was bottle raised so I mixed it and put it in his bottle, reluctantly he drank half the bottle. I straddle him and rubbed him for about ten minutes and I could not believe the amount of gas be burped out. In about 20 minutes he went outside and started nibbling at some hay. I think the soap saved his life and always have some on the barn. It was just dawn liquid soap....


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Oh, okay! Thanks so very much all! I'll let you know how it goes!
(Any answers for the other questions?)


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think I touched on all but your feed. Is your feed balanced? I actually feed brewery (spent) grain, and that has 25-29% protein, however you do need calcium with that, so I give alfalfa pellets with it. If it's a balanced feed it should be okay. I would not be feeding any grain right now to her though, just hay and greens until she is better. Grain can mess with their rumnens.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

As far as I have ever seen, bloat is not a long term thing. They are eating, they bloat fast. They either die, get treated or it works itself out. If your goat has been that way for longer then just a few hours, I dont know if it would be bloat.


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

He could be a chronic bloater. They either don't know or don't follow the rules, and all bets are off as to what is going to cause them to bloat or how long it lasts.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I had two lamancha does who always looked bloated...I was treating the almost daily! I learned they just had healthy rumens....


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

We went out and forced some of it down her and I rubbed, patted and massaged her belly for a while and I got a couple of burps as well as some inner gurgles. She got a huge appetite partway through and ate some hay, my leather belt, and my sweater sleave . I hope that is a good sign. I got her fresh water and there's hay out free choice. I mix TSC's "premium sweet feed formula mixed with noble goat" and they love it! She also got her voice back!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I would say she's definitely better Yay good job


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she is well on her way to feeling better!


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

LuvMyNigies said:


> She got a huge appetite partway through and ate some hay, my leather belt, and my sweater sleave .


:lol: :lol: That is definitely a good sign!


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Thank you all so much! I am now a firm believer in soap water!  This morning she looked so much better. Her tummy was smaller and not as tight, she ran out to meet me, and she was calling for me as lound as can be! I gave her hay and fresh water, but no regular feed as of yet.
No offence to anyone who thinks otherwise, but I would definitely recommend using soap water if anyone has a similar problem to the one I just had. You don not even need to give them that much, my Pixie probably did not even get 1/3 of the bottle! 
Once again, Thanks so much for all your help!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

so happy she is well!!! good job!!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Good job, so happy to hear she is better


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## sandraH (Mar 1, 2013)

I think the soap would be fine. My daughter is a vet so I will ask her but betcha its just fine. I read you could use tide detergent and to me that sounds worse.


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## sandraH (Mar 1, 2013)

I agree with happybleats. No use to make others feel bad. We all have our remedies and people can choose it not choose to listen to the advice.


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## sandraH (Mar 1, 2013)

Just read that the goat is better. Cheers!


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## LuvMyNigies (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks!  So Happy (and I'm sure Pixie is too, though she didn't appreciate my attempts! )
Everyone on here has been so helpful, sharing their advice, even when it conflicted. Keep up the good work, we newbies really appreciate it! 

BTW, if anyone was interested, and if they can see it, the goat in my avatar is Pixie.


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

She is adorable! I'm so glad to hear she is better. 

We feed our goats organic everything, and do not use meds on them unless they are herbal remedies...with that being said, I would not hesitate for a second to use dish soap on them if there were an emergency. A little bit of something that is not organic or pure, if it helps, I'm all for it. I appreciate every bit of information that is shared here. ALL information.


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