# Need good recipe for Saanen



## Barron (Sep 23, 2011)

Being new to packing, we need some advice on basic behavior--we purchased a couple saanens that were already four years old and trained, we also picked up a five year old alpine. There is a night and day difference between them. The saanens are social, but dwaddeling nibblers, easlily outstripped by glaciers in terms of ground covered. The alpine is a superstar--active, peppy and right on our heels. Our question is this; is it just an individual goat thing, or are saanens naturally lazy? A continuation of that question is what breed gives you the best bang for the buck, pun only partially intended. Thanks in advance.


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## Blueroan (Mar 6, 2010)

I can not speak about the alpine but my saanen's are just like you described. Mine are 18months old and been having a growth spurt.


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## jross (Dec 20, 2008)

Maybe they've learned that they can dawdle and you will wait for them. What if you just go on up the trail and don't wait for them? Just get out of sight and then hide along the trail. If they lose track of you and seem lost, whistle or call out to them and show yourself. It will help a lot that you have the one goat who will keep up with you. He will set a good example for the others.

Also, they could just be out of shape and lazy. Are their hooves in good shape?

Mine did that until they realized that if they didn't keep up they were going to be left behind for the mountain lions to eat. Now they keep up without any trouble. I don't hike as fast with goats as I would by myself, tho. I let them nibble a bit as we go, and stop and let them eat something especially tasty or nutritious sometimes. They do need to keep their gas tanks full, you know.


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## Perry (May 8, 2009)

It can also take some time for the adult goats to bond to a new personâ€¦like up to a year or so. The more time you can spend with them at home the better. You could also work on training them to come to you when calledâ€¦use treats and start at a short distance.

The Saanen goat I have follows very well, however he is much more laid back than my alpines.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

I have (had) three purebred Saanen. Two where/are lazy, one to the extent that he wouldn't follow at even a slow pace. My alpine cross (alpine x toggenburger) and all his kids are much more energetic.

Saanen no. 3 can keep a good pace but isn't experienced enough as packer for me to judge if she will be an excellent or mediocre goat.

I agree that the Saanen are more sociable. But it could also be, as others stated, that the Saanen are out of shape or need more bonding or maybe are afraid of the alpine and don't want to close up too much on him.

Check there health and feet and try them in different combinations. All together or take only one with you.

How are they when they are walking on a leash? Do they hang back then, too?


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## Barron (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks for the response. We have had their hooves trimmed. On short walks in the neighborhood they( the saanens) do alright, but when we go hiking the first time we come to steep inclines they lose interest. We have tried hiding out of sight, but they just graze or find a place lay down. At home, where it's flat, they coming running if they lose sight of us. 
Neither goat likes being led-- they both do better if we entice them with treats. We have noticed one on one, or one saanen with the alpine is an improvement. When both saanens are together they seem to rely on each other and not pay us much attention.


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## sanhestar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hello,

I would work them one on one or together with the alpine, then, and also get them used to climbing. It's more strenous and they may not be used to climbing if they were kept in more flat country until now.

If the alpine leads well or isn't budged by it you could also try to tie one of the saanens (preferably the one that's most lagging behind) to the alpine using a rope and either tying him to the collar or the saddle of the alpine. You have to watch that at first because both goats need to learn to walk lined-up:

the lead goat to step into the back pull from the following goat and the following goat to step into the pull of the rope. Best you try that with a helper and enough time and patience. If you tie to the saddle, keep an eye out because the saddle might slip from the pull of the rope if the following goat struggles a lot.


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi Baron

You dont say what area that you are in, that can make a lot of differences on approaches to take. 

I would think seriously on haltering on Saanen to the collar of the Alpine, and after a week or two doing it with the other Saanen. And let the Saanens see you giving treats to the Alpine while out hiking. 

The more time that you can spend with them the better.


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## Barron (Sep 23, 2011)

We live in Alaska, and do the majority of our hiking in the mountains around Wasilla. We have been working with the goats about three months. The alpine tapes around 190, the two saanens are around 250. All three were hand fed and social with people, but we are starting to think maybe the two saanens were just raised in a barn and never had a chance to develope much agility or stamina. In any case, we are grateful for the advice and will continue working with them.


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## Jake Levi (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi Barron

You are in one of the most beautiful places in the world ! 

Stay your course and keep on with them.


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

I bought two Saanens and they are both super friendly. The 5 month old (who doesn't pack yet obviously but hikes) does great (except he is a huge pig and I really have to pay close attention to what he eats on the trail) - the adult one came as a trained packer, but hadn't hiked in a while and was out of shape and tires easily. He got better as he got in a little better shape (me too!), but I wouldn't say he's gung-ho on packing, then again I've only had him for a couple of months and am working on trying to get his feet back in shape too... so we have only done fairly short and mostly day hikes.

I did learn that some of it was him trying to manipulate me or something, as we started out on one flat trail (with under 35 pounds on him) and he laid down about 200 feet into the trail. He gets up if I leave him there and walk away but lags behind. However, any time we turn around and head back (no matter where we are, home territory or camping) he is very eager and only lays down occasionally, and I even have to put him back in the lead sometimes because he'll go ahead of me and try to leave me behind, sometimes starting to trot. 

They are characters! He even snatched my purse one time (on a 'city' field in Oakland) and took off running with it, dumping the contents all over the field with me chasing him trying to get it!


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## WGARDNER (Aug 20, 2011)

I have had a pretty big herd of Alpines. I have a few friends also with large commercial herd that are mixed. Here is the behavior make up we noticed. Alpines are a smaller goat than Saanens, Saanens eat more as they are larger animals. They milk close to the same. Saanens gain weight and hoof easier and are slower than Alpines. 
Nubians being a dual purpose goat also eat a lot. Are biggest and put on a lot of weight. They are the slowest being a meat/milk breed. Lamanchas are a little shy around the larger goats (in general) since they are usually the tiniest in the herd. 
The most active are by far the Alpines and Toggs also Oberhaslis (which are all close to the same size), then Lamanchas, Saanen, Nubians and then the meat breeds. This is of course a generalization and you can always get a few different individuals. So in sled dog terms Alpines are your huskies (speed guys) and Saanen/Nubians are your freight haulers. But you know, if you get a big enough string, youâ€™ll have enough goats to fill in the gap between the fast and the slow guys!


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## Barron (Sep 23, 2011)

Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. We have recently purchased a yearling alpine wether who shows great promise-- already on the first short hikes staying right with us and being very attentive to what we are doing. He should make a fun project to work on this winter. We think with him, our other alpine and the two saanens we will be able to begin to differentiate between breed and personality traits. Funny you should mention sled dogs--we have been retired from mushing a few years, and it is the similarities between dogs and goats that initially attracted us to packing.


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## Saltlick (Jun 12, 2011)

Owning sled dogs has been a dream of mine since I was a little girl! I hope I can experience that one day!


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