# When do you intervene in a delivery?



## Mimigwen (Jan 5, 2012)

We've had 2 does kid so far out of 5, and both who kidded are experienced, good mothers. I've watched the other does kid last year, but Amelia went on her own, so I haven't seen her specifically.

Last Tuesday she went into labor, and things seemes to be progressing normally as she went into active labor. Of course she waits until right before I have to pick up my son from school (there and back takes nearly an hour).

I watched as the amniotic sac appeared full of fluid, and 2 litle hooves, pointing in the right direction. The hooves pushed out further with continuing contractions, but then stopped. She continued having strong contractions, stretching and pushing and bellowing for 12 minutes with no further progression. When she had a contraction I'd see the tip of the nose protrude (so I knew the kid was in the correct position) and then when the contraction ended, the nose would slide back in.

I'm watching the clock, and Amelia. I'm afraid to leave her go on her own in case this kid is stuck, and worried about the possible kid behind it (turns out he was a singleton--but I didn't know then).

I decided that I was scared to leave her like that for an hour in case she couldn't pass him, gloved up and helped, holding the feet and pulling downward with the contractions like I've read. 

In about 3-4 good pushes as she's SCREAMING he slides out, with tons of bone and a big square head.

I left her once his face /nose was clear so that she chould clean him off. She passed the afterbirth after I came home, leaving her with one big square boy.

So my question/concern--is did I jump in too fast? Should I have left them alone to work it out? How do you know when to help and when to let things pregress on their own?

We have 2 does who are FF due any time now, and they are my bigest concern. I don't want to jump in where I'm not needed, but I could also use some good guidelines for when the doe/kid are in trouble if you let them go for X long without progress etc.

Thank you, Mary


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

No, you did the right thing. We assist through the whole delivery (only pulling gently when she pushes) just to make things easier. It is ALWAYS, ALWAYS better to jump the gun then to help too late.


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## Mimigwen (Jan 5, 2012)

A photo of Mad Eye Moody and his mother Amelia a few hours after birth.

Mary


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

They are beautiful!!


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

Sounds like you did a great job! Congrats!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow that's one huge kid! What was his weight? Good job getting him out like you did when you did!
No I wouldnt have left her either. You didnt say how long he was like that but better to err on the side of caution.
Excellent move!


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

I think you did the right thing. If you had left its possible she would have become exhausted and the buckling would have died. He is a huge boy but might cute.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Kuddos....some times they just need a gentle pull, and as another said..better to jump the gun then it being too late... Both are beautiful!!


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## Goatgirl21 (Jan 25, 2013)

Mimigwen said:


> We've had 2 does kid so far out of 5, and both who kidded are experienced, good mothers. I've watched the other does kid last year, but Amelia went on her own, so I haven't seen her specifically.
> 
> Last Tuesday she went into labor, and things seemes to be progressing normally as she went into active labor. Of course she waits until right before I have to pick up my son from school (there and back takes nearly an hour).
> 
> ...


I always help pull a little and I burst the bubble once I see feet and a nose. My doe had her third kids this year and two tried to come out at once. I saw two bubbles and was very confused! I broke one and she pushed the first one out a little so I pulled a little then the second one came immediatly aftee. I always wonder when to help too. I have been there for every single birth the last three years. I love watching them being born and im there just in case.


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## RedGate (Dec 7, 2012)

I too always assist a bit. You did a great job  Just a tip for everyone- I'm a trained labor doula, birth junkie, and midwife wanna be  so I do a lot of research on birth practices and procedures. You can help her tissues stretch over the head/nose by suppling pressure around the the sides of her vulva as she pushes. Almost like your pushing the skin back over the head. When things get REALLY tight you can run your finger just inside and around the the inside lip of skin to thin and stretch her, and then apply the pressure again. I've noticed with really large kids just underneath the rectum is really where this type of support is useful- with human births too! Just pulling causes more trauma to that tissue than helping to stretch and thin it first, and it really helps the delivery go faster. I almost always have both hands supporting her as she pushes and the nose becomes visible, and I give a little tug as she pushes one leg at a time as this stretches the kid out making his shoulders/chest smaller around.


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## Berryfarms (Jan 5, 2013)

We always try to help if she appears to need it. If you think she might need a hand, she does. We have 22 kids in two days, another 220 does to go!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Always go with your gut instinct. It is usually right when you think a doe needs help.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

Berryfarms said:


> We always try to help if she appears to need it. If you think she might need a hand, she does. We have 22 kids in two days, another 220 does to go!


You have 220 more does to kid! I only had four due this month and I was tired by the end. I don't know how you do it


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Berryfarms said:


> We have 22 kids in two days, another 220 does to go!


 Wow, I guess you have a lot of goats!


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

No way I could wait for 220 doe's to kid. I'd be locked up in an asylum long before 5 months was up. I'm one who's got to be right there the whole time making sure everything is going as planned. Running around checking udders, feeling belly's:GAAH::GAAH::GAAH::GAAH::GAAH:


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

I dont assist in normal births. I dont feel it is needed. 

The rule of thumb is that there should be progress every 30 minutes. If there is no progress, you need to assist. 

I will also assist if I see that the kid is coming back feet first, with this presentation they need to come out quickly as the cord can break over the pelvis and the kid can inhale fluid if not born quickly. Best to get backwards kids out asap.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow, that baby sure is big, and both are beautiful! I'm sure I would have done the same thing. Boer single kids IMO tend to be big, and sometimes the mama's just need that extra help to get them out.

We stand by, but don't get involved in the birth unless we think there is a reason. 
When the kid is out, we'll break the bag, clean the face/nose, check to make sure the umbilical cord didn't break too short/bleeding too much so if it needs to be tied off, that can be done ASAP. Otherwise we let mom do the rest unless she is overwhelmed with more than 1 and needs some help, esp. if it's cold.

Last year, we had a single doe that was HUGE <13lb.>, mama couldn't get her out past the neck. Baby was just too big. I knew that she needed help, and baby was starting to suffocate because mama was so tight around her neck.
I grabbed a leg, prayed, and pulled as hard as I could, yet gently, and once I started pulling, mama knew, and she was pushing, so she'd push I'd pull, etc. etc. and got her baby out - all was fine.
Had I not helped when I did, we'd have had a beautiful...dead baby 

The very next kidding a couple of months later, all I saw was a foot sticking out up past the knee! The babies other foot was bent at the knee and in such a way it was stuck, so we had to go in and pull the foot free, and all was fine after that.

I don't think jumping in after a short while of labor is good, but if you really think something is wrong, don't hesitate, trust your instincts.
If a doe seems to be struggling to get a big baby out, and you think she needs help, then help her, I'm sure you'll save her a lot of energy, and she'll appreciate the help too. It's not going to hurt anything unless your pulling and pulling and not being gentle or have any clue what your supposed to do. 
When I had to pull the baby I mentioned above, I had a general knowledge of what I had to do - be mindful of hurting mom or baby -- especially if the umbilical cord is pulled too hard and breaks too short, or hurts baby or mama.


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