# Very young kids dying!



## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

We have Myotonic/Boar cross goats. One doe kidded on Thanksgiving. A boy and a girl. They seemed to be happy and healthy. Nursing and playing. Then one week later I found the girl laying paralyzed and only able to bleat a little and stiffen her neck and move her head back when I picked her up. We thought she must have gotten trampled or butted by another goat. 
On February 17th we had two goats kid together. One had two girls and the other had a single girl. They seemed confused about who's kid was whose. I saw all three kids nursing off both does, and sometimes the does would butt their own kid away or the other does kids. We penned the two mothers and three kids up away from the herd. On February 19th I found the healthiest and most active of the kids, who had been nursing and playing from birth, laying paralyzed with the same symptoms as the kid who died a few months ago! No sign of illness or obvious trauma. I don't understand why a healthy 2 day old kid would just throw it's head back and cry and be unable to move the rest of her body. Isn't that too young for enterotoxemia? Not foaming at mouth or belly bloated or any signs I can see. Please help I can't stand to see them die like this.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is it down or up?? If now and seems stiff I'm thinking tetanus. If not really down and stiff maybe white muscle disease. I've only see white muscle once in our calfs this last summer. We thought he was hit by a car or a tree limb fell on him, just kinda acted like something wasn't right in his back. We ended up loosing him and skinned him to see what was up, no bruising but the meat was white. I'm really not sure, if this is what you have going on if a shot of Bose would work or not. If it sounds about right maybe do a search on what others have done


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

We are battling white muscle disease on my farm.. It is devastating.. They are fine and then two hours later they are down and a little layer dead.. Once down I can't figure out how to save them.. All of my babies got a shot of BoSe yesterday. I can now just pray I treated them in time. I used the gel at birth and treated the moms and it was not enough. It is so hard to be so helpless.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Jessica84 said:


> Is it down or up?? If now and seems stiff I'm thinking tetanus. If not really down and stiff maybe white muscle disease. I've only see white muscle once in our calfs this last summer. We thought he was hit by a car or a tree limb fell on him, just kinda acted like something wasn't right in his back. We ended up loosing him and skinned him to see what was up, no bruising but the meat was white. I'm really not sure, if this is what you have going on if a shot of Bose would work or not. If it sounds about right maybe do a search on what others have done


I agree, or could of been naval ill.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Navel ill should show some signs before they get sick enough to due. Silent pneumonia is a fast killer. Onion creek ranch has a good article on it.
Would anyone on your farm be willing to cut one of the dead? The muscle will be light in color.. Nearly white.
Enterotoxemia is a fast killer. Was the moms vaccinated? When you picked up the dead was it like picking up a water balloon? Real sloushy..


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

Only her neck is stiff and she bends it back to her shoulders. The rest of her is limp and lifeless. I can move her limbs and they seem normal. She will not even try to stand and just laying on her side acting like she's hurting. It's just like the week old kid did last november but this one is only 2 days old.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

I've give her thiamine just in case it's polio.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

WMD can cause premature births, still births, infertility, and death of babies within hours of life all the way to three months. Can also cause breach or difficult labor


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Go ahead and treat for floppy kid syndrome it won't hurt


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Did you give her extra vitamin e? You can puncture a Vit e gel capsule and squirt it into her mouth. I'd probably treat for WMD, floppy kid and polio to cover everything. It does sound kind of like tetanus but 2 days old seems kind of young for tetanus. Did you dip the cord in iodine? Hope you can save your kid.


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

Agree, sounds like floppy kid. Along with with bo se and vit e, id give a few syringes of baking soda mixed in water. Spray / dip the cord in iodine.

Do you keep any other farm animals in the same area as the goats? How are the babies poop? Could be e coli maybe?


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm overwhelmed! white muscle disease, floppy kid syndrome, polio, listeriosis, tetanus! I have no idea what to do for her. The mom and other goats seem healthy.


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

TDG-Farms said:


> Agree, sounds like floppy kid. Along with with bo se and vit e, id give a few syringes of baking soda mixed in water. Spray / dip the cord in iodine.
> 
> Do you keep any other farm animals in the same area as the goats? How are the babies poop? Could be e coli maybe?


We have them fenced off from other animals except an Anatolian Shepherd dog who is on a chain. The neighbors have goats, cattle, horses, pigs, dogs, and chickens. I haven't seen any of the babies poop. So will the Vet sell me BoSe and Thiamine if I call and ask for it?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Don't be.over whelmed just go threw the list. Tetanus- can you move the legs? The one case I've had the ligs would not move even while my brother tried to bend. Not the case? Move to the.next idea. White muscle give a shot of Bose. The only way I know to tell for sure.is.after they have died so give Bose and cross your fingers. Now the rest of the ideas the treatment kinda.goes.together. so with kids going.down so.dang fast I.would.give penicillin, some baking soda, CD antitoxin or MOM, vitamin b shots or thiamine now have you seen baby poop? If not give a enema if he is scouring I would.get some scour hault. Your not going to get a answer treating for everything but might save his life. If he does pass I would send him in to be checked out to see what you have going on


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

If you need to get meds from the vet, I'd just call them and tell them what's going on. Bringing a kid in to the vet is easy if they want to examine. Since you've never had sick kids before I'd probably just take him to the vet especially if your feeling overwhelmed.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree. He might catch something that your not and a second set of eyes is nice.


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

Jessica84 said:


> Don't be.over whelmed just go threw the list. Tetanus- can you move the legs? The one case I've had the ligs would not move even while my brother tried to bend. Not the case? Move to the.next idea. White muscle give a shot of Bose. The only way I know to tell for sure.is.after they have died so give Bose and cross your fingers. Now the rest of the ideas the treatment kinda.goes.together. so with kids going.down so.dang fast I.would.give penicillin, some baking soda, CD antitoxin or MOM, vitamin b shots or thiamine now have you seen baby poop? If not give a enema if he is scouring I would.get some scour hault. Your not going to get a answer treating for everything but might save his life. If he does pass I would send him in to be checked out to see what you have going on


Yes. The legs move so probably not tetanus. I guess. I'll see about getting the BoSe shot for WMD. Is Texas a low selenium area? I've been feeding hay during the winter and noble medicated goat feed mixed with sweet feed twice a week. Am I supposed to give the newborns anything or the mother right after kidding?


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

anderson827 said:


> Yes. The legs move so probably not tetanus. I guess. I'll see about getting the BoSe shot for WMD. Is Texas a low selenium area? I've been feeding hay during the winter and noble medicated goat feed mixed with sweet feed twice a week. Am I supposed to give the newborns anything or the mother right after kidding?


Hay is low in vitamin E. I would still give a vitamin E gel capsule even with the BoSe. They can't use selenium without vitamin E.... It would be better if you fed the grain daily. Goats do better with consistent feeding.


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

LadySecret said:


> Hay is low in vitamin E. I would still give a vitamin E gel capsule even with the BoSe. They can't use selenium without vitamin E.... It would be better if you fed the grain daily. Goats do better with consistent feeding.


I feed them all together and I heard that the male goats can't have a lot of grain or they get urinary infections and stuff. So I should be giving them all a human vitamin E capsule daily?


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

No not daily. I'd give it to your sick kid once to see if they can't use the selenium they have because they are Vit E deficient.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

A necropsy will also give you answers. It may be too late now but if you lose any others, have a necropsy done. I'm so sorry for your losses.


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## Barnes19 (Sep 8, 2013)

Argh I wish I could help ... this sounds markedly similar to something I had in lambs one year, but slower onset.

Only 2 out of 14 lambs lived ... the others had wildly differing symptoms ... some rigid, some seizures, some hyperventilating with loud knocking heart, some just weak. The common symptom of all was that bent stiff neck. All really big strong at birth, unusually so, leaped to their feet and fed almost immediately, but after the first yellow poop showed the symptoms set in.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yes..Texas is very low in selenium...I give BoSe twice a year for mine...BoSe is not for FKS...

to treat FKS, we pull kid off milk completely, feed electros with a pinch of baking soda...CD Antitoxin or Milk of magnesia is given to rid body of toxins...


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## anderson827 (Feb 19, 2015)

Update. Kid died. Vet says after necropsy that it just didn't nurse and must have had hypoglycemia from no nourishment. I know that it was nursing very good the first day it was born, but I think since another goat kidded the same day they got confused about who this kid belonged to and never bonded so the mother must have rejected it. No sign of scours and nothing in the digestive tract.


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## LadySecret (Apr 20, 2013)

Sorry you lost him... Well I'm sure the kid didn't nurse after he went down hill. But his symptoms don't fit just a starving kid. Maybe I'm way off but I'd be questioning whether starvation was the primary cause of death or the secondary cause. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry. 

What was the kids temp, could of been very sub temp. 
When a kid drops to sub temp.their organs shutdown, if you do not get their temp up quickly.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Its possible it died of starvation, but with the other loss, I tend to agree with Lady secret..I do know starvation can cause the head to flank back..as the body shuts down...but then if toxins were building from FKS then that can cause it too...

Im very sorry for your loss...


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