# My old guy...this is a rant...



## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I am so sick of people thinking that my animals are abused by ANYONE out here. Not too long ago we had a friend of Lizzie's accusing her of abusing all our animals....I've never seen it. The little girl finally admitted she was just jealous of Lizzie having all the animals that she just made it up. Ugh...

Now...I've been taken to task (by the mother of this little girl) for still riding our old guy. Cyclone is probably close to 30. He's got a cataract in one eye and his behaviour makes me pretty suspicious that he is all but blind in that eye now and the other may be developing a cataract. He is full of arthritis...it does not seem to bother him at all. He is NOT lame in anyway and seldom, if ever, limps or acts stiff. If you get on him, you have to hold him back cause he does still LOVE to run! He loves kids and will go all day for them. IF, he is ever acting lame...he absolutely does not get ridden. And, unlike a lot of people out here, I do NOT give him bute to mask the pain so he can still be ridden (yep, I know a lot of people that allow their kids to ride obviously lame horses and give them bute to mask the pain...I believe if they are limping there is a reason and masking pain so my kid can ride "just because they want to" is NOT an option on my farm). Cy gets regular chiro and teeth floating. He gets fed extra. He's a hard keeper tho... I know that our time with him is limited. As soon as our riding him seems to put him out of commission for any amount of time, we won't ride him anymore. 

Ok. Rant over...maybe. LOL Sorry


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It is always the people who don't even own animals that complain. They have no idea how to care for the animals or anything but will still complain. Hopefully they will leave you alone.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How irritating....people have become so "soft" on animals, it bugs me! For one, just talking to you online and reading your posts, I can tell you would not harm your animals.
I had a girlfriend tell me she felt sooo bad for my dog because when the weather is nice, I put her outside.She says she's a dog person and can't stand to see them look lonely.  Her pen is big, she has an area roughly of 25' by 175'. She has a doghouse. She has a shade tree.She has sunlight when it's out. She has water.I told my "friend" ..."Um, she's a _dog_ ..she can handle being away from me for while when I am busy doing my other animal chores." Now this is coming from a woman who _hasn't got a dog!_ :hair:

ETA: This dog (you know, the poor lonely dog of mine?) she sleeps on the bed every night  Poor baby! :lol:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks gals. I was just so darned irritated. My DIL just got taken to task because her dog is an outdoor dog with a good shelter and during a cold snap (they live in NC) she was informed that her dog HAD to be inside. Sigh... Why don't people understand that they are animals and before WE humans screwed them up, they were quite hardy??? My dog...yep...she sleeps on the bed too. And...she's a flippin bed hog too! She'll shove you right off the bed! I've had goats, calves, kittens, etc on my back porch and in my house (have you seen my pic of my ND on the piano??? LOL). It tears me up when something happens to any of them. My animals go to the vet when they need to. They get corrected immediately and as harshly as I deem necessary when needed also. If my old horse is standing on my foot...he's liable to get smacked, kicked, etc...until he deems it time to move. LOL Sigh....


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh, that bugs me SO much! :veryangry:. There's taking care of and loving your animals properly, for the health and benefit of your animal, and THEN there's going too far by frying to treat animals like people! I mean, I'm totally against animal abuse and neglect, and will always treat my pets with love and respect, but I'm not gonna dress them in clothes, feed them at my table and call them a person! 
Animals, like people, deserve love, care, and respect, but IMO we are not the same in ALL aspects of our life. 
Ok, I'm done, sorry.......:GAAH:


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

My mare is around 30 as well, and half (or more) blind plus she has no molars left and eats mush. I just took her cow sorting last night, and a few months ago we went to a hunter's pace where we came in under time - TWICE. For those of you who haven't heard of it a pace is where you follow a course around 5 miles long on varied terrain with optional jumps, and try to match the time that they've determined is ideal based on the speed of an actual foxhunt, which means trotting, cantering, and some galloping. Neither of us had ridden in a month and we were both dead tired but otherwise just fine!

Also, on the subject of people pissing us off...I'm getting very tired of a girl in my class calling my puppy "skinny" because he's lanky at 5 months old and has an exaggerated tuck due to his breeding. Even if he was overweight (he's not) he would never have a big round tummy! His ribs are covered, his coat is glossy, and he has way more energy than either of us knows what to do with


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Sounds like my old guy! If they can do it, then let them! They need to have a job too...just like people need to feel useful! We did go on a trail ride this fall that I will never ask him to do again...it was pretty rough terrain even for a younger horse. We had a mare when I was a kid...my grampa gave her to "me" (well...supposedly my brothers too, but I claimed her LOL) She was almost 40 when we had to put her down. We used her to move cattle when it was time to move them. She would do her job and then go lay down for a couple days. We had to take feed and water to her. I've had "skinny" animals too. Don't matter what you feed them or how much, they are going to be skinny. There are people that way too...why not animals? I've had horses that stayed fat on next to nothing and others that you had to literally pour feed to...same with dogs. We had a boxer puppy that was so skinny...and she had food in front of her 24/7...she just wasn't destined to be a fat dog.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

People keep their animals way too fat a lot of times...especially cats and dogs...I try to keep it under control with mine but these goats are hard to do that with! They gain weight eating only hay :lol:

Oh and as for dressing my animals? I leave that to my daughter...:lol:


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Like I said with this one he's not even skinny it's just the way he's built. I'm sure she'd think a healthy Greyhound was dying from starvation.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Hahaha I think your dog's expression says it all!! :laugh:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

NY...you just KNOW that dog is waiting for you leave to your shoes vulnerable....LMAO poor puppy. 

People DO keep their animals too fat. I had a lady come crying to me that her horses were "starving to death" and she just didn't know what to do anymore. They were going to "die". I went to look at them and they were at a beautiful working weight. Most of my animals tend to be...ahem....well fed. LOL I've had some skinny ones out here but they came to me that way. Now...if I can just keep this old guy as "fat" as he is now I'll be thrilled....we can only see about 1/4 inch of backbone!!!! It's the fattest I've had him in the 2 years we've had him.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:lol: it does, it does!

Funny how people don't think an animal should work anymore. People are making them un-hardy  It's terrible. I have sooo many people ask me if my chickens need coats in winter....._really_?? I mean, seriously! :ROFL: Yeah, I know, I'll just have my goats pelts made into chicken jackets....complete with letters... "W" for wyandottes, "EE" for easter eggers....Rofl!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Took me over a year to get my mare to where she just holds a 4 1/2-5 BCS. For whatever reason she actually GAINS weight in the winter and drops it in the summer - and no, it's not just hair even though she's half wooly mammoth!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Who knows??? You might become a millionaire selling your Chicken Coats! :ROFL: Just dont' tell anyone they are made out of your goat pelts or you'll be in trouble there! hehehe And I think labelling them per breed would be a super nice touch. :slapfloor:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

My poor guy came to us half starved...his owners ran out of feed over the winter. We put most of his weight back on (probably still a couple hundred under ideal) and then he got strangles last winter. I wasn't sure he was going to pull out this summer and put any weight on. I had my daughter prepared that he would need to be put down. Luckily, pasture seems to be the key with him. Poor old guy....he's such a sweetheart.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

NyGoatMom said:


> Funny how people don't think an animal should work anymore. People are making them un-hardy  It's terrible.


Just think how unhardy most people are. What would people do if they had to grow their own food? Most people don't even know how to truly prepare food from scratch. Nowadays, from scratch is making a cake from a cake mix.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> Just think how unhardy most people are. What would people do if they had to grow their own food? Most people don't even know how to truly prepare food from scratch. Nowadays, from scratch is making a cake from a cake mix.


SOOOO very true. I helped a 4Her make a cake one time (it was at a cooking meeting) and she was upset that they had forgotten to buy icing. I had the stuff right there and she was so amazed that I could make icing! Try getting some of these people to read a recipe! It's amazing...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

My niece helped my mom bake Christmas cookies this year. My mom's cookies usually taste very good. This year they were not as good. My mom mentioned that my niece was the one doing the measuring. I think she made some mistakes. I agree that they can't read and follow a recipe.


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## Deschutes Dawn (Sep 24, 2013)

I agree with all of you. No one knows how to do anything for themselves anymore. I can't imagine how that lady who was whining about the older horse working would react if she came to one of my endurance races. Horses happy to be on the trail and happy 50 to 100 miles later coming in sound and healthy. I used to do 50's until my knees couldn't handle it but I still do 30's and it's all I can do to control my ecstatic boy as we head down the trail. My Arabs are jealous of the pack goats when they get to go do stuff and the equines stay home!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You are all correct, IMO....this is a very spoiled country. Meaning, everyone wants someone to just hand them stuff already prepared.Not even necessarily out of being spoiled/lazy (although there's a healthy dose of that too) but more out of being time-crunched. I am even victim to it at times, and I hate that!! 

I have older friends who tell me frequently how they love that my kids have chores and know where their food comes from and how much they miss the "old ways". I was happy to hear this week from an elderly friend of mine who just had a triple bypass, how much she enjoyed the rabbit alfredo I made for her and her husband and how long it has been for her that she has had farm fresh eggs.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

kccjer said:


> Who knows??? You might become a millionaire selling your Chicken Coats! :ROFL: Just dont' tell anyone they are made out of your goat pelts or you'll be in trouble there! hehehe And I think labelling them per breed would be a super nice touch. :slapfloor:


Well I'd give them ol' Duck Dynasty boys a run fer their money, all right! :slapfloor:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

:ROFL: I'm telling you! Between the goats and the chickens and kids....Duck Dynasty wouldn't stand a chance!!!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Hahahaha..... :lol: Some of the stupid things people have gotten rich on, it might just work


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## farmchick897 (Jul 2, 2013)

I was once told all my animals would die if I didn't bring them inside during the winter. :/
During this cold spell we had -6 degree weather that was last seen 18 years ago. I was watching the news and they said make sure to bring your pets in, the lady was holding a little min pin with a sweater on and she said if you are cold, they are cold. I have 6 dogs that are allowed inside or out, whatever they choose. My Newfoundland, I couldn't get her in during the winter. I even coaxed her in with a bone, she ate it and started pawing at the door to get out. I was worried about my mini pigs outside, but they did fine too. Increased the food and straw. My camel also did fine and I had tons of people who were concerned about her. She has as much of a coat as my llamas.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

meddling folk. so annoying. esp when they have no clue what they're talking about.

and, too many people everywhere are lazy. the other day, a lady walked by our house when I was taking the goats out. she says to my bf "oh, my grandmother used to have goats, and I loved them and their milk. can I have some milk?". like seriously?

i also like to make a lot of things at home (food, soaps, etc). ppl often want to buy, or tell me i should sell. i say to them, the reason i make and post things is to show that you can do stuff at home too. you DON'T need to buy everything pre-made in the store! sigh.....

NyGoatMom, chicken coats may actually pan out......
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/ar...oss-road-these-amazing-reflective-vests/7341/


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

^^ :shock: :lol: :lol: Well I'll be darned!!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

farmchick897 said:


> I was once told all my animals would die if I didn't bring them inside during the winter. :/
> During this cold spell we had -6 degree weather that was last seen 18 years ago. I was watching the news and they said make sure to bring your pets in, the lady was holding a little min pin with a sweater on and she said if you are cold, they are cold. I have 6 dogs that are allowed inside or out, whatever they choose. My Newfoundland, I couldn't get her in during the winter. I even coaxed her in with a bone, she ate it and started pawing at the door to get out. I was worried about my mini pigs outside, but they did fine too. Increased the food and straw. My camel also did fine and I had tons of people who were concerned about her. She has as much of a coat as my llamas.


LOL yeah, a min pin might need to be inside. I'm surprised you got your newfoundland to even come inside. I had a husky once that HATED to be inside. My door didn't lock and when I got home late at night I'd drag him thru the house with me. Always wondered just how intimidated an intruder would be when I'm literally DRAGGING my "vicious" dog behind me. :roll: Would have been even more convincing if the furnace kicked in while I was dragging him....he would drag me out.

OMG...I can remember Pig, our potbelly, the first winter. We had a shelter set up for him and everything...he REFUSED to go into it! I'd look out my window and there would be a Pig shaped snow pile. I just knew he was going to freeze to death.

I had a friend post to my FB wall a pic of a horse on a couch and the warning to "bring your pets in" :ROFL: Had a heck of a time convincing my daughter that we were NOT going to do that!!!

OMG! Those chicken coats are soooo....soooo....yeah. :crazy: Not sure why you would need them to be reflective tho. My chickens head for the hen house before dusk....Not too often I see one roaming the streets after dark. hehe


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

And there's no way in heck my muscovies are comin' in! Ever seen their poo?  
:lol:


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

kccjer said:


> OMG! Those chicken coats are soooo....soooo....yeah. :crazy: Not sure why you would need them to be reflective tho. My chickens head for the hen house before dusk....Not too often I see one roaming the streets after dark. hehe


apparently in the UK (or that particular village), chickens crossing the road kept getting run over, so someone decided to make reflective jackets for the chickens so they can cross the road safely. my thinking is, if you're driving and can't see a chicken crossing the road, it MAYBE time to either get glasses, or just not drive all together.......


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh lordy, I can just see it now....ducks in the tub,chickens in the pantry,turkeys on the stairwell, goats on the couch....lol...no thanks!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Oh lordy, I can just see it now....ducks in the tub,chickens in the pantry,turkeys on the stairwell, goats on the couch....lol...no thanks!


Awww...you're no fun!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:ROFL: Yeah, I guess not if you consider that fun! :lol:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Here's my poor abused old guy...


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh ya....you can TOTALLY see how terrible you're treating him (i'm being sarcastic of course). he's beautiful!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

He wouldn't let me run my hand over him....but....but....I'm not sure his backbone isn't completely covered!!!! Wooot!!!! :fireworks:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh yes, so terrible to behold such a thing...I mean, where is his top hat and coat,love? :lol:

What ignorance exists today!


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## Carmen_SanDiego (Sep 13, 2013)

I get flack all the time for using my goats to clear my land instead of herbicides. I think people's treatment of animals like people is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, my bf makes sure that his dog is never alone, never outside and always fat and then when he does leave him alone for a minute and he cries or is cold outside because he never got a winter coat or picky with food his views of the animal "needing him" are validated. Dog isn't really happy either. 
He always gives me a hard time about leaving the dog in the back yard with the goats... I"m like that's her job.. it makes her HAPPY.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

I get so tired of other people with no clue about animals try and make farmers treat their cattle and other livestock like lap dogs! 

It's pretty strange to think that in a little over 100 years, we (collectively) have gone from using animals as tools (horses plowing, etc) to an animals as "people too" mentality! 

Most of today's society couldn't even begin to survive without all the electricity and modern conveniences. We have thrown away thousands of years of survival in a mere century! 

Could you imagine people in 1900 worrying about a 30 year old horse being ridden? Heck, up until recently, most people wouldn't have batted an eye. 

(By the way, the horse looks wonderful!) Everyone has gone whacky lately! I think everyone needs to get off their duffs and do manual labor! People are bored with their own lives and they look at everyone else's to see what kind of trouble they can cause!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Carmen if that guy is like my old made was he enjoys going ridding. It totally broke her heart when I couldn't take her out any more. So you ride him as long as you can  
Now you don't even want me to get started on stupid people and animals......my blood pressure will go sky high!! Where I live has been turned into a place where city people go to retire or to get away from the city so basically its full of stupid people here. We have been cursed turned into animal control and woke up in the middle of the night because our cows were close to the fence line and made their dogs bark. Then weren't to happy when I told them I would come over and shoot their dog if they wanted me to :shrug: lol


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes, Jessica he enjoys being ridden. He has been a fantastic old guy for us. He was the confidence booster my daughter needed. It's going to break my heart when his time comes....but I won't let him suffer at all....no matter how hard it is for me. I get so tired of people that are idiots. Those that try to tell me that ALL farm animals are abused and mistreated and we should ALL be vegetarian in order to END the abuse! OMG! It seems people in general have lost all common sense.

LOL "Could you imagine people in 1900 worrying about a 30 year old horse being ridden? Heck, up until recently, most people wouldn't have batted an eye" Oh yeah. Can you imagine what they would have to say if someone told them they needed to make sure all their animals had blankets and full time shelter and couldn't be used for food? I remember someone asking if they could cook with the raw milk they were driving 3 hours (one way) and paying $10 a gallon for....I laughed at them.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

yes, people who say "being vegetarian will save the world" annoys the heck out of me. supermarkets have done an amazing job at removing people from food. 

the thing we get a lot is since our wether is slated for the freezer, when people hear this they say to us "why dont' you just go to the store and get goat meat? they sell it there". well then, that defeats the purpose of GROWING YOUR OWN FOOD! sheesh!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What do you do with all those animals? No one ever thinks about that. They would starve to death because you can't afford to feed farm animal pets. If we all honestly went vegan, then every cow, sheep, goat, pig and chicken would have to be put down. Then what do we do with the mass of bodies? No one ever thinks of that.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

no Karen, no they don't. those people also don't realize many of these animals serve a great purpose in keeping our land healthy. they don't understand that the goat (cow, sheep, horse, etc), eats the grass, makes the poop that builds the soil. yes there are green manure, but that can only go so far. sigh...it's sad to see how misinformation can be so powerful!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

How stupid is it to think if we all went vegetarian it would be a good thing? Very,very shallow thinking.
When people tell me to just buy it at the store, I start telling them how their "store meat" is raised and treated :lol: I know I shouldn't derive pleasure from that, but I do to a degree  Isn't that awful?


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

^^ nope, not awful. because i like doing that too. :twisted:


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

^^ :lol:


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## Houdini (Dec 4, 2013)

Ugh I hate that my friend had the same thing happen. Her barrel horse is naturally thin and fed twice as much as any other horse on their property(4 leaves of alfalfa hay not skimpy either) well she found some guy on her property look at her horse and he said, "why do you starve your horse it animal abuse" worst part was he was on private land accusing her for animal abuse! Grrrrrr it still bugs me


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

People don't see animals as animals anymore. They are "human" just like us. We give them human emotions and expressions, etc. Animals see the world way more realistically than we do. One of the best things, as a parent, to living on a farm is that your kids get to see exactly how the "circle of life" works. Yes, it's hard when they have to say good bye...but they learn the facts of life. Now...the facts of life can be more than death too. LOL My daughter told me that she wanted to be there when we turned the buck in with the does so she could see when he "get's a little" wink, wink! :shocked::shocked::shocked: Aaagghhh...growing up just a little too fast, maybe??? 

We are so far removed from what it takes to raise and process food for the table that people don't understand. Those that say we should all be vegetarian because of the horrible way animals are treated. Sheesh...We farmers, for the most part, take better care of our animals than we do ourselves! Yes, there are some bad ones out there, but they are by far the minority.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think the biggest issue is like those dog pound commercials. I hate those by the way but there is one that shows one shot of a guy on a tractor trying to pick up a dairy cow with a fork lift....and it wasn't purdy and the man should have been horse whipped but now they have it in their mind every dairy every cattle rancher does this to their animal....no they don't!!! The same as not everyone staves their cats and dogs. 
A horse nobody understands as they get older they do get thinner and health issues do come up...the same as with us humans. We had a 40 year old mare that we got turned in for and that was a nightmare we had to pay for a vet to come out and write down there was nothing wrong with her and keep doing this monthly till it was time to put her down.
But bottom line to all this is yes there are people out there who abuse animals so those of us that don't and have animals have to suffer for what other heartless *******es do....just not right. 
The vegetarian thing....if you are or are not is a belive there is no difference between religion which we all must respect as it is on how or what we eat or do. If us meat eaters were to pick on them the way they do us....omg!!! We would be the most notable people but the way it is they are saving all living things.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...my daughter was mad at my DH one day(her step dad)and she came out to see what I was doing...and as I was standing by the buck pen waiting to see if my doe was going to stand for him....she watches the buck for a minute, blabbering,pawing,drooling,licking himself,and tasting my does pee, and she turns to me and says.."And THIS is the examples I have of men in my life!!" :ROFL:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Lol...my daughter was mad at my DH one day(her step dad)and she came out to see what I was doing...and as I was standing by the buck pen waiting to see if my doe was going to stand for him....she watches the buck for a minute, blabbering,pawing,drooling,licking himself,and tasting my does pee, and she turns to me and says.."And THIS is the examples I have of men in my life!!" :ROFL:


:slapfloor: She has a point.....


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Ikr? :lol: If you could have seen the look on her face when she said it :slapfloor:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> I think the biggest issue is like those dog pound commercials. I hate those by the way but there is one that shows one shot of a guy on a tractor trying to pick up a dairy cow with a fork lift....
> T.


OMG...I HATE those! Yes, it happens. I'm sorry it does....but not everyone is that way! Or the pic of the cow with the horrible udder that is "where ALL milk comes from"...no it isn't and surprisingly, it's the only sick cow in the herd! Why don't you show pics of the whole herd????

Here is a fantastic link that I think everyone ought to see...

http://dairycarrie.com/2013/12/09/cowabuse/


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Nice link....I love how she put the different lighting and music and made it look so desperate...

Not to mention the spca begging for funds commercials...geez, those will throw you into a depression in under 30 seconds! I have a hard time with any groups (local shelters,aspca,etc) because most of them have ridiculous expectations for adopters along with high fees.Not to mention most of the shelters are run down, overcrowded and understaffed. Now how humane is that?? The foster homes they put these animals in often aren't up to their standards either...but they let them foster.I feel they are going overboard,like PETA does, is essentially what I am saying.

*I do realize some groups are good, so no spazzing necessary from anyone*  I just know that they expect the animals adopters to be well off....well, from my experience fostering, I can tell you 99 % of your interest in adoption comes from lower income people. Not well off people.So work with em folks!! They are the ones who will love the animal and do their best!!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> The vegetarian thing....if you are or are not is a belive there is no difference between religion which we all must respect as it is on how or what we eat or do. If us meat eaters were to pick on them the way they do us....omg!!! We would be the most notable people but the way it is they are saving all living things.


I totally respect if you're vegetarian, but I get irate when people say that being vegetarian/vegan means animals are treated better and the world will be a better place if we all just stop eating animals. I don't see how those two things connect? to me, the world would be a better place if we all just get along, and treat one another (humans and animals alike) with love and respect!


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok I have a couple of things to say, one is about my Vet and his new "trainee" under vet. When he first hired her he came out to do a farm call for me. I had a sick mare I wanted him to look at and while he was there I had him pull blood and do coggins on them all including my 36 year old gelding. He was thin, he survived on soup the last part of his life because he literally didn't have any back molars left. As I brought him around the barn to where they were standing I heard her whisper to him "Isn't he too thin? What is she starving him.?" My Vet (bless him I just love him) Raised his voice quite loudly and said, " he is 36 years old, most horses never make it that far, she takes excellent care of him."
The other, thing is my aunt is an animal lover. I am too but she takes it WAY too far. She is always complaining about the way we take care of our animals. She always feels like we aren't being good enough to them. Her dogs are so fat that are dangerously obese but we are the ones that don't know what we are doing. So over Christmas me and her got into because we have a little dog that loves for you to rub him with your foot. He will come sit by your feet when you are sitting at the couch or in a chair and lay down for you to rub him. If you stop he will beg you to do it some more. So I was rubbing him and she told me to quit because it was annoying to him and he hated it. I said "really? You know that he hates it? You know that he doesn't just love this?" She insisted he hated it then to prove her point she reached over and started vigorously rubbing my leg and said "See, See, that is annoying isn't it?" So I said, "I bet you if I quit he will BEG me to do it some more." She said "No he won't you can tell he hates it" So I quit and he crawled up under my foot and nudged it with his nose begging for me to rub him some more, so then she turned and looked at him and said "Make a liar out of me will ya" 
I have to admit I enjoyed that WAY too much because I usually just keep my mouth shut when she makes some rude and stupid comment but I just couldn't that time.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That's awesome about your vet Leslie 

As for the dog, that is soo funny!My dog loves feet, in fact she will purposely seek out feet to lean on and be pet by...it's annoying to me! Not to her....lol


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah it is just so ridiculous the things she get upset at people about. My mom gets mad at her because my mom has a cat that really doesn't like to be held very much. She will tolerate for small periods of time if you just hold her and don't "wool" her around a lot. My aunt (same one that complained about me annoying the dog mind you) picks her up everytime she comes to see mom and annoys her cat to no end, to the point she will finally scratch and bite her which makes my aunt laugh. It makes mom mad because she tells us what to do with our animals and says we are being mean and then she annoys the heck out of mom's cat and because that cat holds a grudge and she doesn't always remember who offended her so there have been times she has attacked mom for no reason shortly after my aunt leaves. 
My aunt professes to love cats and be a cat person yet she insists on doing this to mom's cat. I just don't get it. 
Mom is on blood thinners so if she get even nicked by a claw she bleeds a lot. 
It is just disrespectful and weird all the way around.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

That's extremely annoying.People who think they know animals....I have two friends. One owns a dog, the other a bearded dragon lizard. The one with the lizard brings it everywhere  including to the friend with the dogs house. Well my daughter was there one time when this occurred....she said that the dog literally shakes and drools...then licks the lizard repeatedly and that both the owner of the dog and the owner of the lizard think they love each other. My daughters like, ummm...your dog wants to either EAT the lizard..or something in that lizards skin she likes the taste of..but they both said, oh no...they always do this....Bailey (the dog) just loves the lizard! Really?? :shrug: One day the dog will lose control and the lizard will be no more.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Hmmm...wonder who will win the fight between the dog and lizard???? LOL I just love it when people try to tell me I can't do this or that with an animal. I'm the first to admit I don't know everything and I make a lot of mistakes....but I've also raised a LOT of different animals. I'm not too worried about anyone coming out to investigate. I said something to my vet and he informed me that if a complaint was made they would come to HIM to have him investigate. :lol: He told me he didn't think I needed to worry too much. 

I have a "friend" who has gotten goats and sheep from me. She and her husband both claim to know how to take care of animals. When we got to the fair and sheared the sheep it was nothing but bones!! She thought she was being good to it by moving it's pen around so it could eat the weeds....but she gave the market lamb nothing extra! Oye.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

My honest belief is that animals were put on this earth by the good Lord for us to thrive on, not just "pets". We use animals for meat, fur, hides, milk, and labor like guarding ,packing,etc. 
But that doesn't mean we have to treat them like machines, because they're living creatures and God made them for our benefit, not to abuse them and see them as "objects". 
People nowadays see all animals as pets and their "kids", and don't appreciate the fact that they give us almost everything that we need to live. It's the natural order of things for us to eat animals, it's part of the ongoing cycle of life.
That's just my honest opinion and what I believe..........
..


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

canyontrailgoats said:


> My honest belief is that animals were put on this earth by the good Lord for us to thrive on, not just "pets". We use animals for meat, fur, hides, milk, and labor like guarding ,packing,etc.
> But that doesn't mean we have to treat them like machines, because they're living creatures and God made them for our benefit, not to abuse them and see them as "objects".
> People nowadays see all animals as pets and their "kids", and don't appreciate the fact that they give us almost everything that we need to live. It's the natural order of things for us to eat animals, it's part of the ongoing cycle of life.
> That's just my honest opinion and what I believe..........
> ..


I 100% agree!!! And we as the upper species should respect that. No killing for no reason. Take only what you need. My parents were loggers and oh wow the crap they had to deal with. They were looked down on because most see a logger as total clear cutting the Forrest. I disagree with the clear cutting but what they actually did was cut down dead or dying trees to take to the mill. Sorry but that's way better then letting it fall and rot and make it where no new trees can come in. Again its all common sense and respect.
And about the fat dog lol....fat animals drive me as crazy as too thin. I will try not to preach too much on what I think on that but my question is why do we have a issue with fat people but we try so hard for our pets and animals to be fat. And that's not butcher animals because I love my meat to have a good amount of fat on it.....I fully admit I'm a unhealthy eater lol


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Being a good steward of the land is so misunderstood now days. People don't understand that the old and dying/dead growth needs cleared out...one way or another. Forest fires are the "natural" method. But those same people will be upset because the fire is threatening their home! Same thing with ALL animals, domestic and wild. You have to harvest the old and weak...they are gonna die anyway so why let them linger and suffer? Yes, we eat young animals too...they are much more tender and taste better. LOL But, that's still part of culling. 

I personally don't care if you are vegetarian, raw food diet, etc. If you have valid reasons for that, then go for it. Just don't start calling me names or using scare tactics or decieving photos, etc to convert me! I got into an "argument" with some vegan over a pic she posted of a pig being raised in a pretty horrible manner (in a cage that was only as big as the pig) and claiming that it was how ALL pigs are raised here in the States for butcher! Turns out the pic was not only 10 years old, but NOT even from the States!!! It was some backwater market in an Asian country! She then informed me she had plenty of pics just like it from here in the States....I told her to post them then. She blocked me...LOL 

People don't understand that "factory" farms aren't the evil they believe. YES...there are some that are horrendous! But most aren't. Sick and dying animals don't make money. And the bottom line is always money. We have a dairy just a few miles from us. They have cows that are valued in the hundred thousand range...just ONE cow! Those cows are treated like queens! Maybe it's not the "ideal" cow grazing in a pasture scene, but they put out a lot of the milk and yogurt and ice cream and cheese that all those people screaming "abuse" eat! We farmers simply cannot produce the amount of food we do without some of these practices. Yep, we can go back to farming like we did 100 years ago....as long as you all are willing to give up some food or pay a lot more for it cause there won't be as much out there! 

Oh, and Jessica....eating fat isn't that unhealthy. They are just now "discovering" that eating a fat free diet isn't that healthy. Go figure....


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

I understand I have a friend who is constantly asking me if I fed my animals today and how can I get heat in my barn


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

jennnaragsdale said:


> I understand I have a friend who is constantly asking me if I fed my animals today and how can I get heat in my barn


LOL Don't ya just wanna slap her? No, I only feed them when I notice they look a little skinny. Or...yeah...I light a fire for them when it gets cold. Sigh....


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## jennnaragsdale (Mar 5, 2013)

I feed twice a day normaly but I'm pregnant and get morning sick so I give them enough feed n the morning for the whole day but if I do get back out in the evening thy get a bit more grain...she's the type that treats her animals as if they were children and can't undstand if other don't do the same.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

people are just too far removed from their food source. where I'm from in China, you go to the market everyday and buy the freshest food that you need for that day (and maybe the next day). when you need a chicken, you pick out your LIVE chicken and it gets slaughtered on the spot for you (same goes for fish and other under water creatures). when we eat fish, we eat the whole thing, head and all. 

invention of the supermarket gave way to convenience, but it also made it possible for people to lose touch with real food. it's quite sad.

and i'm with your Carmen on the scare tactics. I absolutely hate the one that says "all milk has pus in it. don't drink milk from mammals. switch to nut/rice/soy based milk instead". or the "gluten is bad for everyone. be gluten free and be healthy". whatever happened to having a balanced diet? (which includes fat! everything tastes better with butter and bacon fat! mmm)


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

I had an old girl that I got. I was told they thought she was about 8-10 years old, that they got her when she was just a couple years old. The elderly man got her to work on training her, but then he had a heart attack and his health was never good enough to work with her. So she spent 6-8 years in a pasture with four other horses. They were friends of ours, knew I was horse crazy, and offered her to us when they wanted to move to be closer to family. She was wild by this point. I spent over eighteen months working on groundwork (as a newbie to horses) before I ever rode her. Our turning point in getting her to respect me was the day she kicked out at me, or bit me, and a threw a five gallon bucket at her. Some would shudder at that, or say it was abuse, but after that day, we got on a lot better ground as far as her respecting me. When we went to float her teeth, turns out she was at least in her twenties, if not older. Once under saddle, she was smart, good in a cattle pen (took her team penning), and at worst the startle-in-place kind of animal. She was the horse I rode when pregnant with my daughter. She was a difficult keeper at times too.

I could see why the couple that gave her to me thought she was younger. She was right on the cusp of pony/horse height, and she wasn't really bulky. Not sure what breed she was either. They thought quarter horse, but I think not.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh, and check out your local therapy riding stable, and ask the average age of their horses. Usually all VERY senior, and dependable. 

Another of sassy:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

She's pretty! Yep, that would be considered abuse by many. I feel that you do what you need to do. When we first got Keela, Rhodesian Ridgeback/pitbull mix, she was already 4 or 5 years old. The first time she got ahold of one of my indoor cats....I whaled the tar out of her! And I mean....I lit into her big time. She leaves the cats alone now. If I hadn't broke her of that quick, she wouldn't have been able to stay here. I'm a firm believer in making it painful for an animal to hurt me....you hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you right back.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

You have to be dominant....my mom 's cat is a nightmare because he rules the house.My mom just doesn't understand how to be top cat. That cat is so unpredictable.You can be petting him one minute, and he will slash you open the next.We tried to take him to a rabies clinic,but they refused to give him the shot because he was so wild.Fortunately,he is an indoor cat.The whole time my m om is trying to tell them he is a good cat he's just scared!
My mom has had company before and suddenly the cat leaped onto the womans back. One time my DH was doing some work in her apartment and he was petting the cat....the cat suddenly slashed his hand open.Well,his reaction was to smack at it with the broom he had in his hand.He didn't make contact but to this day the cat will not come out when he is there.So weird.....but it's probably the only time he has been "one upped" by a person.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

After that incident, her life was a whole lot less posturing and confrontational. I threw that bucket out of frustration, and to try to keep her from hurting me, like the time she kicked out at me and barely clipped my hip bone. I was so upset later about throwing the bucket at her. But the balance of power shifted that day. I remember when my sister's future sister-in-law had to stay with us (bad home situation, she was a minor, and she was staying there to be safe). She was maybe 8-12 years old at the time. I remember her being able to hug Sassy around the neck when I was grooming or bathing Sassy. That was one of those "woulda never thought this would happen" moments, with Sassy not acting off, and actually liking the attention.

On the flip side, when I went out riding, I just about always had a pocket full of wintergreen mints, and I definitely did share them.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

It's amazing how much a good old "come to Jesus meeting" will accomplish. LOL That's what we call it... You can't always be "nice" about things.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hmmm how dare you protect your self from that animal....be a good animal lover and take it lol...just kidding!!! That's another thing that bugs the crap out of me. Animals can and will hurt us!!!! When my made was young she kicked me right in the stomach....first and last time I ever got kicked. She got a good butt whipping and never did it again. Now some see as that being mean but if she was in with other horses and kicked a domanite I bet my last penny that horse would have bit a chunk of her butt off lol. I really don't like to hit or bring any pain what so ever to any of my animals but if they are doing something to harm me or anyone else heck ya I'm going to because a human life and well being should come first.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Yep, you have to be firm and mean it. If you nip behaviors in the bud, it usually doesn't take much work to get the behavior to stop. It's when people who have a problem animal and do nothing, it gets so bad most of the time.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Do nothing about the bad behaviour OR try to sweet talk them out of it. That irritates me so much. Redirect the behaviour and reward...soooo...they have just learned that if I do "a", they do "b' and I get a treat! Yep, works every time. LOL I'm not advocating beating an animal by any means. But sometimes you have to prove you are the top "dog" and in the animal world that does mean physical correction of bad behaviour.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Oh my god...my last boss drove me UP THE WALL with that. Oh, no, you really shouldn't be begging...but you're so cute so have half my steak. Head > desk. :wallbang:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Oh my god...my last boss drove me UP THE WALL with that. Oh, no, you really shouldn't be begging...but you're so cute so have half my steak. Head > desk. :wallbang:


OMG! That would have made me nuts!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...I agree....if you could hear the voice my mom "corrects" her cat in...:ROFL:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

NyGoatMom said:


> You have to be dominant....my mom 's cat is a nightmare because he rules the house.My mom just doesn't understand how to be top cat. That cat is so unpredictable.You can be petting him one minute, and he will slash you open the next.We tried to take him to a rabies clinic,but they refused to give him the shot because he was so wild.Fortunately,he is an indoor cat.The whole time my m om is trying to tell them he is a good cat he's just scared!
> My mom has had company before and suddenly the cat leaped onto the womans back. One time my DH was doing some work in her apartment and he was petting the cat....the cat suddenly slashed his hand open.Well,his reaction was to smack at it with the broom he had in his hand.He didn't make contact but to this day the cat will not come out when he is there.So weird.....but it's probably the only time he has been "one upped" by a person.


Your mom needs Jackson Galaxy from My Cat From Hell!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

ack! I'll bet you're talking about that "baby talk" people use! **shudder** I want to smack them up side the head when they talk like that!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

ksalvagno said:


> Your mom needs Jackson Galaxy from My Cat From Hell!


He's AWESOME! Isn't he??? I really like that show! But, I have to say that the behavior could have been avoided about 99% of the time if the people would just treat the cats like cats.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:lol: :lol: Ikr?! 

She tells me she explains to him why he is being naughty....and she thinks he gets it :ROFL:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Absolutely but at least there is an option out there for some people. Amazing what he does.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

kccjer said:


> He's AWESOME! Isn't he??? I really like that show! But, I have to say that the behavior could have been avoided about 99% of the time if the people would just treat the cats like cats.


I have never watched it...I should,huh?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes, you should. Your mom's cat might not seem so bad after seeing all those he works with. LOL


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Lol...I figured they must be bad when I saw the title of the show  Make my mom's cat look like he lives up to his name...Purrcy! LOL


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

NyGoatMom said:


> I have never watched it...I should,huh?


Absolutely! That show is fun to watch. Some of the people are just unbelievable. Jackson is actually good at figuring out what is going on with the cat and how to change the behavior. Of course the people really end up changing their behavior more than anything.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Kind of like the dog whisperer says...he rehabilitates dogs and trains people


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> Kind of like the dog whisperer says...he rehabilitates dogs and trains people


Yep. Basically teaches the cat to be a cat and teaches the people how to treat it like a cat. I know some people are saying don't do the dog whisperer techniques....but I'm telling you he makes sense AND it works. I've used his method on some things and it's amazing how well it works. I wish people would let animals be animals and not expect them to be little humans (or big humans in the case of horses and other large animals)


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Ignor them i used to ride a rescue horse with one eye the was about that age and she still had years to go.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks Kelsie. It just got to me that day....it was from a family that had accused my daughter of abusing animals out here but found out the daughter was just jealous of all our animals. That day just got to me. Those old horses like ours have to be some of the best ones out there. I love this old guy....but I also have to be realistic and face the fact that he probably only has a couple years left with us. He'll be treated like the king he is until then tho....


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

i love old horses they know what there doing. My friend does barrrels with her horse and he is in his 30s the vets said he only had a little time left now that was 7 years ago. Im sure he will and its good that your not getting rid of him just because he is getting old.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Nope, not getting rid of him. I have the luxury of being able to throw him out in pasture and I'm not paying to board him. Thank goodness for that. He'll live out his days out here and when it's time, my vet will come out here and we'll bury him out here too.


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

that's good hell be happy


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

The veal bans, remember that about oh, 15/20 years ago. We all supposed to quit eating those horribly abused sad little calves? Well..

My DH and I live in dairy country, and we remember it from the farmers stand point. These sad little calves are dairy bull calves that are born so that their mom can produce milk, butter, and ice cream. They were raised in the shade, not in pitch black dark, they never knew anything different than feed and a warm bed. 

So the world quit eating them...The farmers ended up having to shoot them and plow them into the fields for fertilizer. I wonder how those vegans would feel if they knew that during that time period their wheat was being grown on the bodies of wasted bull calves? 

Now the world is eating veal again. The only difference in how they are raised is that now they have a little outdoor pen with a hut in it instead of being in the basement of the barn.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Amazing isn't it? Those animal rights activists just don't think about the long run. 

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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I wish they could grow up to be slaughtered at full size. Not because I think it's more humane that slaughtering babies, but I just find veal to be too mild  Dairy breeds make nice lean beef, especially grass fed.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I've only had veal a couple times and I liked it.

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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I love veal, I love beef too but veal has a whole different flavor. I remember when I used to could get veal parmigiana in a tv dinner and you can't anymore. Now it is all chicken which isn't as good in my opinion.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Lizzie and Cy headed out for a ride. Had to loosen all the cinch straps!! He was rarin to go too...

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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Nice  Looks like you are having fun


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

And....I was told old Cy still outran them all in a race!! Go Cy!!

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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Hee hee hee, who were they racing against?


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

An arabian mix and a couple much younger quarter horses. Hehe...

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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

wow an Arabian thats good for him because TBs are a mix of arabs because they can breath easer well they run.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

He was tuckered when they got home. They went on a 4 hour trail ride! Poor old guy doesn't get rode that often so he's a tad bit out of shape. Lizzie gave him a good rub down last night and some extra feed. I had to laugh because one of the people on the ride was bragging about how fast her horse was...apparently Cy outran her with no problem at all. LOL She's blaming it on his longer legs...hah!


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## Goatzrule (Feb 7, 2013)

Good for him. He must of loved it.


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## swatson2020 (Jan 25, 2014)

I like your goat or what ever it is


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

So. I just love family. Sigh. I get a phone call about 8:30 from my dad. He needs my hubby to come get him and go find my nephew who wrecked Dad's pickup. Hubby is in the middle of something so guess who gets to go out in the middle of a blizzard??? Yeah, me. I go get Dad. We head into town. Finally find nephew and pickup about 3 miles from town (it's 15 miles from my parents house to town). Mom told me he was suppose to be in GEM (3 miles from their house) moving a bale? Uh huh. Pickup is in the ditch on the South side of the road, facing west. Which direction was he going? He was headed west. Says he got blinded when a snow plow passed..I'm betting speed played a slight part in all of it cause I'd bet he was driving at least 70. Looks like he hit the ditch and possibly jumped an approach. Tore up the front end of Dad's pickup...not sure how bad, it was a little dark, but it's not drivable or towable. Nephew wasn't wearing a seat belt. Really? Bit thru his lip and thought he needed to go to ER and get stitches. I TOLD him they weren't going to stitch it. So, an hour of waiting for him at the hospital and, yep, NO stitches. I about ended up in the ditch 1 1/2 miles from home when my pickup lost traction on the hill between my house and my parents.

Why was he going to town in a blizzard? Oh, because some girls washing machine wasn't working! Seriously? THAT is really a good reason to drive to town in this kind of weather? Oh, and why was he driving Dad's pickup instead of his? Hmmm...let's see. Maybe because he blew the engine in his....again. He has knocked the front end out of 2 pickups now. Blew up 2 engines. Blew up the clutch in my pickup (seriously....blew it up...there wasn't a piece of clutch bigger than a quarter left) I've pulled him out of a ditch that he was going too fast and jumped a RR track and ended up in the ditch across the road! 

This kid! And my Dad just keeps shelling out the money! Sigh...


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like he needs some tough love.


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## Deschutes Dawn (Sep 24, 2013)

Sounds nearly identical to my situation only my husband's oldest son (28 yrs.). Just a leech. Thank goodness for the barn and my creatures. I feel your frustration.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

kccjer said:


> So. I just love family. Sigh. I get a phone call about 8:30 from my dad. He needs my hubby to come get him and go find my nephew who wrecked Dad's pickup. Hubby is in the middle of something so guess who gets to go out in the middle of a blizzard??? Yeah, me. I go get Dad. We head into town. Finally find nephew and pickup about 3 miles from town (it's 15 miles from my parents house to town). Mom told me he was suppose to be in GEM (3 miles from their house) moving a bale? Uh huh. Pickup is in the ditch on the South side of the road, facing west. Which direction was he going? He was headed west. Says he got blinded when a snow plow passed..I'm betting speed played a slight part in all of it cause I'd bet he was driving at least 70. Looks like he hit the ditch and possibly jumped an approach. Tore up the front end of Dad's pickup...not sure how bad, it was a little dark, but it's not drivable or towable. Nephew wasn't wearing a seat belt. Really? Bit thru his lip and thought he needed to go to ER and get stitches. I TOLD him they weren't going to stitch it. So, an hour of waiting for him at the hospital and, yep, NO stitches. I about ended up in the ditch 1 1/2 miles from home when my pickup lost traction on the hill between my house and my parents.
> 
> Why was he going to town in a blizzard? Oh, because some girls washing machine wasn't working! Seriously? THAT is really a good reason to drive to town in this kind of weather? Oh, and why was he driving Dad's pickup instead of his? Hmmm...let's see. Maybe because he blew the engine in his....again. He has knocked the front end out of 2 pickups now. Blew up 2 engines. Blew up the clutch in my pickup (seriously....blew it up...there wasn't a piece of clutch bigger than a quarter left) I've pulled him out of a ditch that he was going too fast and jumped a RR track and ended up in the ditch across the road!
> 
> This kid! And my Dad just keeps shelling out the money! Sigh...


How frustrating  Sounds like he for sure needs to gain some respect! Maybe he should pay for the damage...


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Charlene, that would be even more frustrating than this situation! Ny, the boy has NO money! He "works" for my Dad. Now, I have to say that Dad could not continue farming if he didn't have the nephew....his age, physical health and mental (he's in beginning stages of alzheimers) would have stopped him a few years ago. However, Dad puts up with a lot from this kid. I really thought he was maturing, but I guess it was just a momentary lapse in his normal bad judgement. LOL I know that there are things the boy does that my dad would absolutely have NEVER tolerated from any of us...or any of the other grandkids in the past. I am so hoping that when he graduates college this spring he is going to move to where his girlfriend lives and it won't be an issue any more. Sadly, that will also most likely be the end of my Dad farming, but at 80 with his health issues that might be best anyway. Like I said, gotta love family. On a good note!!! The lying little snot of a granddaughter that usually comes out every summer will most likely NOT be coming this year!!! She has to do summer school!


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## Deschutes Dawn (Sep 24, 2013)

Well at least there is a little light at the end of the tunnel for you. One added thing for us is his 4 year old daughter, a bright lovely young lady being passed back and forth between family members. We have 1/2 custody at the moment but the state of Oregon does not allow grand parents rights even if you can prove you are the ones supporting the child and paying for all school, doctor visits, swim lessons, etc. It's hard to take her back to her drug addled mother and her abusive boyfriend. Our lawyer says it would be a slam dunk to get full custody if her dad could move out and live on his own. There is no way he'll do that and he's said we would have to foot the bill. Certainly a rock and a hard place. We could lose contact with the grand daughter if her dad doesn't fight and we aren't allowed to do so for ourselves. And people wonder why I enjoy alcohol!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow. That is just a shame for the 4 yr old. I hope things eventually work in your favor. That is terrible that Oregon doesn't have grandparent rights.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Oh. That sucks. Kids are the ones who get hurt too often. The only thing you can do is continue to be there. I hope it gets better for you and that poor little girl.

Carmen, Co-Owner Oleo Acres LLC, Nw Ks


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

There is a huge trend here of kids being raised by their grandparents. Apparently a lot of irresponsible parents out there. I am sad that you can't get custody or your granddaughter. Laws must be vastly different here because it almost seems like there are more grandparents raising children around here than parents.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

My friend just got custody of all three of her grandkids. Maybe you need to move to Washington.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Well....$7500 worth of damage to the pickup! :shocked: 

In other news. Nephew has a herd of cattle and has a steer he wants shown in 4H. So, we may be showing a steer this year. Need to get it decided fairly soon tho because weigh-in is next weekend. LOL He SAYS he will help her (heard that before with sheep and when he got pissed off with me, her help went out the door). At least I showed steers when I was in 4H so I have some clue. We will also write up a contract for payment after the 4H sale. Hopefully, he'll be around long enough to help halter break it and then I can handle it from there.

Since the title is a rant about my "old guy" :laugh: does my hubby count in that??? He has decided that we are going to Cheyenne Frontier Days instead of our fair. That's great. BUT...for his job, summer is the busiest time. Also, his "boss" has kids in 4H and takes time off during the fair. I don't think they are going to give him his vacation time then. I told him last night he needs to ask for it off NOW and get it confirmed NOW. This also affects whether daughter is going to show a steer and since that decision needs to be made NOW....:GAAH: I'm thinking if he doesn't take care of it, I am just enrolling daughter in the market beef project and he can suck it up.

Shall we continue with the hubby? He has this horrible habit of eating in the middle of the night. Always has. A lot of the time, he is asleep when he does it (that's why he'll eat stupid stuff....like drinking a bottle of salad dressing, etc) He has gotten mad at me and says he IS awake and knows what he is doing. I notice it more when he is drinking (and he does that quite a bit...closet alcoholic if the truth were told.) Well, tonight he was up and I knew he was eating. Found peanut butter on the counter (not the jar of pb, but the actual stuff stuck to the counter). He is eating it straight out of the container! :GAAH: Not a problem if he were getting a spoon and eating only that one spoonful. No...he's using a fork and double dipping! Gross. The peanut butter jar is nasty...don't know how he manages to smear a good spoonful (or forkful) of it all around the outside of the jar, but he does. It is so frustrating to me. He goes thru spells of this so seems to be in a cycle of it again. He will go thru a 5 pound can of pb by himself in a week or so...all eaten at night! he drank about a half cup of maple syrup the other night. I"ve tried talking to him about it and he just gets really mad at me. I'm at my wits end with this. He is diabetic and doesn't manage his diabetes at all. He has put on so much weight, I'm seriously worried about his health (he carries all his weight in his belly and can't even bend over to put his shoes on). He's going to die on me if he doesn't wake up and start taking care of himself! I figured up one time how much he was eating (that I knew about) and it was close to 5000 calories a day!!!! AND...that is only what I KNEW he was eating! Found out he was eating more than that! I'm not skinny by any means and I know I need to lose weight too. He gets mad at our daughter and lectures her or yells at her to quit eating and then turns around and does this! Any advice? I really don't know what to do anymore.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, you have your hands full. It will probably take an event or hitting bottom for hubby to change. He will probably need a good health scare. :hugs:


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh wow! what a big plate to deal with!!!! sorry you're going through it. :hug: some people just can't deal with emotions or constantly in denial.

my bf has a friend. his dad has had 4 bypass surgeries, and has his heart stopped and restarted I think 6 times..... this friend, can't stop eating or gaining weight. he's about 10lbs away from being considered obese! anyway, he just can't stop eating terrible food and drinking sugary soft drinks. I think deep down he's sad/depressed about something, and haven't been able to deal, so he eats. he always tells people what losing weight/exercise regimen he's doing, but he never loses anything....

anyway, long story short, maybe your husband is sad/depressed about something he's not willing to confront? so he's lashing out by eating and drinking? oh, this same guy has been in a few fights last year after beveraging too hard.....


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I agree with Karen it will probably take some sort of wake up call or health scare on his part but and I know this sounds mean, but if you can catch him doing it, video tape him and show it to him. The sight of himself drinking straight maple syrup or smearing peanut butter everywhere or drinking salad dressing (can I just say bleh here!! eww) may be enough to jolt him into reality. Have you ever listened to yourself on a cassette tape and thought how weird you sound, well actually seeing himself may disgust him into action. Also possibly try hiding the most fattening and easily acquired items at night.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Better yet, stop buying it at all and only keep healthy food around. I'm trying to eat healthier this year (trying...) and if I keep healthy food in the house I'm more likely to eat that when I'm hungry since I have to go out and buy junk food. Which I doubt he'd do while sleepwalking (hope not!)


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

^^ that's what I tell my friends who complain they need to eat healthier. have junk in the house, you'll eat junk. so...get rid of the junk and put yummy healthy stuff in the house and you'll snack on that instead!


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Sorry you are going through so much. Time for lots of individual serving foods at your house. 

On another note, if you end up at CFD, if you see a few parents with boys in scout uniforms, especially if you hear someone yelling "Wesley, get back here NOW!", that will be our cub scouts. Last year we did the flag-raising one of the days, and my other son, Trenton, got to race in the stick horse race during the rodeo. Since one of our leaders works closely with Boy Scout council, we are likely to end up doing it again this next year. We had only a handful of cub scouts, and at least four families have kids in both the cub scouts and Girl Scouts out here, so we had our girls and boys working together on doing the flag-raising.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Elissa, doesn't look like we'll end up CFD. I didn't think he'd be able to the time off and I was right. At least he asked and found out instead of just making the plans and waiting until the last minute.

We don't have a lot of junk in the house....I don't consider pb junk food. HE thinks he IS eating healthy. I can't keep a lot of fruit around...healthy, yes but not for a diabetic to have up to 10 servings in a day! I had cans of soup (chicken noodle, crm of chicken and mushroom, tomato) around. Found out he was taking them to work and eating straight out of the can? So, decided to keep the family size cans because that would be harder to take to work. Nope, he still takes them and then only eats part of it each day? And then he wonders why he gets stomach issues....I'm surprised we haven't ended up at the ER for food poisoning! I've caught him making 2 sandwiches for lunch and he immediately says "I'm making one for tomorrow too" Why? You come home every single night and there is never a reason for making lunch ahead of time like that. I was positive I had some cranberry sauce in the pantry....it started disappearing. Found THAT in his bedroom...he's eating it at night? He will make 2 or 3 sandwiches and they will end up in his room...so when I confront him about coming down to eat, he just keeps it in his room! Thankfully he doesn't drive to town (15 miles to the nearest store) during the night for food! I've threatened to only keep enough food in the house for one day but that means using a lot of gas to drive to and from town daily and it's more expensive than cooking in bulk. Like I said. I'm at my wit's end here. 

Oh, and I totally agree about the salad dressing. About made me gag when I caught him with that one. I really don't know what is going on with him. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I still say videotape him if you can, unless you think it would infuriate him towards you. Ever stand in front of a mirror and eat, not so easy to do, if he has to SEE it, it ,may give him a wake up call. And I don't consider peanut butter junk food either. Or maple syrup or salad dressing, or cranberry sauce in moderation. And in my opinion the rest of the family shouldn't have to suffer just because he sleep eats. Does he have sleep apnea, or work odd hours? Some of that might contribute to it as well.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Nope, he has always done the sleep walking. When we were in Germany, I could lock the kitchen door and keep him out...pissed him off but kept my kitchen safe. He tends to do it more when his blood sugar is out of whack. It's also how we got him on high blood pressure meds because I went to his army medic and told him about the behavior and the "sweet" smell he sometimes gets. When he is drinking more, it tends to be worse. When he was working nights, it was really bad and I think it became a habit to keep himself awake while driving. Even his "boss" has mentioned that he always has something in his hand to eat while working. He packs his lunch on the basis of easy to hold and eat while driving now too. I don't know if I can film him or not. He knows he is doing it and unless I can sneak up on him he'll drop whatever he's doing and go back to bed immediately.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I just wondered because when I worked nights I was told I got up, cooked an entire meal and sat at the table and ate it. It was leftovers and I just had to microwave it, but my whole family thought I was awake doing it because I had my eyes open and everything and didn't have any problem fixing the meal. I don't remember a thing. I don't do it now that i no longer work nights but weird shifts can really mess with you.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

He's never cooked an entire meal. LOL It's when he's sleep-walking that he'll eat the stupid stuff like salad dressing, tahini, etc. When he's just eating (and I think it's more out of habit than anything) he'll get the peanut butter or something like that. I've actually had him eat almost half a 6quart crock-pot of stew that I left on and cooking overnight! He even told me the next day that it was just too good. So....I can't even leave something like that out. I literally have to tell him exactly how many meals I expect something to give us or he'll eat it all in a couple meals! If I can, I portion it out and freeze before he can get to it but I'm not always fast enough. I think it's more frustrating to me because I feel like I shouldn't have to act like a mother figure to a 50+ yr old man...you know? This behavior is something I would expect from a teen-age boy, not a grown man. 

When he's drinking more, the behavior is more erratic too. He tries to hide his drinking from daughter and me (he tried when the boys were home too by drinking wine out of a coffee cup....). He sucks at hiding it because 1 beer seriously affects his behavior and speech patterns. He has it "hidden" in the barn fridge and drinks when he's out there working. I'm not sure why he thinks I can't tell....it's so obvious! LOL I do know he's frustrated with his job and the guy he works with. I've told him to start looking for another one but he refuses...so that means he just gets more and more frustrated. And then I get frustrated and it's a vicious cycle.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I know that you already know this but drinking for a diabetic is not good at all. And it causes them to get intoxicated quicker than a non diabetic. He sounds like he is doing things out of comfort to ease frustration. Is there anything he really likes doing, especially something that involves you and daughter that maybe he could do to occupy his time instead? And I know this may be a bitter pill to swallow from someone who isn't married and isn't successful with men but I know from the people I see in my job as a mental health worker that things are cyclical. So if you give someone a compliment most likely they will give you one, if you scream at them most likely they will scream at you. So as hard as it is to do it, find the good stuff he is doing and really brag up on it to him. Especially if it is something related to this stuff you want him to quit doing. Not saying you are ugly to him now at all, just saying if he is looking for comfort, give it to him in another form. Like praise.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I have a very hard time getting him to do anything with us. I beg and beg for him to come sit down and eat supper at a regular time with us. He'll do it about 3 times and then "I just have to finish this up. Go ahead and eat without me" I don't even bother cooking a meal any more cause he won't be here to eat it with us. Lizzie has begged him to come to her horse shows and he "just has too much other things to do". And I do get where you're coming from with the compliments. It is sometimes really hard for me not to just get angry and I do try. Then I blow up and it's not good. And it is definitely cyclical. LOL I know I go thru the cycles and this weather is getting to all of us I think.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

That sweet smell? Isn't that a diabetic thing anyway? And isn't that to do with ketones? Not a good thing. 

It makes me sad to hear about her getting turned down by him not wanting to show up at horse shows. I never did show my horses, but I know my parents would have been there if I was. 

Now, if his meals were regular, I wouldn't think too much of not eating with others. Food is a big thing for me. I do plan out about how many calories I consume in a day, and I don't often eat until the kids are in bed, because I really enjoy my food. It is part of how I relax. I don't eat when the kids are going to demand things of me. Plus, my kids have to be gluten, cow dairy, and soy free due to digestive and behavioral/neuro issues. I don't get the same enjoyment out of eating if I have to do it at the same time as my kids are making demands of me. If he was eating a normal amount, I could sympathize with him on wanting to eat when he could actually enjoy it. As it is, there is something else at play.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep, the sweet smell is a diabetic thing. And sometimes it's super strong with him. I really wish he'd take time to do things with us, but he just won't. Not eating with us isn't about enjoying his food. It's about him not wanting to interupt whatever he's doing to take the time to come in and sit down with us. If he had his way, he would never sit down and eat anything....he'd just eat it on the run. I know that plays into the amount he eats too. He honestly has no clue just how much he does eat. Maybe some of that goes back to his 20+ years in the army?


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Is there any way you can have locks installed on the pantry, fridge, etc? Sounds a bit extreme but it will at least stop him at night.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I could lock the fridge, but it would really make him mad. The pantry is just shelves in an open hallway between the kitchen and back porch so pretty hard to lock them!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Wow, a lot going on since I have been able to read this thread! So sorry Carmen about your DH's problem. I have heard of that before but I thought they were sleepwalking and eating??
That must make for a terrible grocery bill!


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I just had to share this ad with you! This is Wessel!!! I love him...and I've seen him in person so many times. He is owned by a friend of mine. I want one of his babies so badly....but they all sell for $7000+ :-| The first time I saw him was at a horse show. Brandy rode him in barrels. We all laughed and said she might not have the fastest time but she HAD to have points for the most spectacular looking run with him! He is a doll...

http://www.nextechclassifieds.com/listings/view/298817/

I'm thinking that new champagne araloosa filly of mine just might have to have a baby when she turns 3???


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

:GAAH: I so NEED some xanax right now! But do I have any? No...why? Because my husband uses ALL of mine along with his and then tells ME to call in the script refill! His phone isn't working? He's been telling me for a month now that he's going to get the tires on the pickup replaced at his work...employee discount  Has he done that yet? No. Why? Dunno. I'm not suppose to spend the money to fix the tires that are constantly low on air because they need replaced and he's going to do it. So....I ask this morning that since I'm going to be 30 miles from there, I'll just go on down and get the tires taken of too. Nope, can't do that cause don't know if they have them. Ask how I (as in me, personally) finds out if they have them and can take care of it. You'd have thought I asked him to replace the tires himself immediately! He got mad at me! :shrug: He has grudgingly (and I do mean grudgingly) said he'll call them when they open to see if they have any appointments. :wallbang: So, I'm expected to call in HIS scripts cause he can't for whatever reason, but I can't ask him for a freaking phone number to call for tires! ARRRGGGHHH Where is my xanax...oh yeah...he used it all. :sigh:


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

So sorry you have to deal with that. 

The horse is beautiful.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks. Probably more frustrating right now cause of the stupid phone too. LOL I think Wessel is absolutely GORGEOUS! I'd so love to have one of his babies but I can't afford them!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

:hug: So sorry! Spouses can be quite the challenge to live with....just ask me how I know  Maybe hide your pills next time so when he runs out,he has to get his own....


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Umm...Get off that stuff as soon as you can. Deal and Heal...Drugs are drugs, you don't even want to know how many people in the US are on drugs legal or illegal..


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

goathiker said:


> Umm...Get off that stuff as soon as you can. Deal and Heal...Drugs are drugs, you don't even want to know how many people in the US are on drugs legal or illegal..


I take it about once every couple weeks. There are times when I really do need it, but for the most part I don't. I actually went off all my meds (thyroid, antidepressant, hormone, fibro meds, ...:chin:...I know there were more...and all kinds of supplements that were suppose to help me with whatever) about a year ago. I was really tired of taking a handful of pills (and it really was a handful of them) on a daily basis. I use to have a list of about 20 different things I was taking. I have a pain med and a muscle relaxant that I take when I absolutely need to and my anti anxiety meds that come in very useful at times (as I told one of Lizzie's friends....they are my "not killing people meds" hehehe) The problem is that when I really need it....I REALLY need it or I don't function. I'm having a rough time this winter with depression again, but I am not going to start them stupid meds again. Summer will be here soon and I'll be ok again for a while.


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## OGYC_Laura (Jan 9, 2014)

Carmen,
Your original post was about stupid people complaining about animals when they aint got a clue.
I wanted to share with you something I seen on the news last week.

They went to someone's home and video taped their dogs and did a whole piece about how those dogs were left out in the cold. The news channel even stated that animal control reported that no illegal behavior was going on. 
There were about five very healthy looking dogs with their own water and feed bowels and 50 gal barrels with hay for shelter. The news channel just couldn't believe that these dogs were left outside. 
ugh Get real people, as long as they have food, water, shelter they are fine out there.
It made me think of your original post.


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## GreenMountainNigerians (Jul 3, 2013)

On the same original vane,we had to field complaints every summer from people freaking out because the horses had hoods over their eyes and couldn't see.... Fly masks,of course.GAH!


Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Good grief! Yeah those fly masks are definitely abusive. Sheesh... I don't understand how we got to the point where we coddle animals like we do. I had a husky one time that hated....yes hated...being in the house. He loved winter and cold.

Carmen, Co-Owner Oleo Acres LLC, Nw Ks


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh geeze, I put a mini horse fly mask on Bean when he's in the trailer. It has open sides and I don't want debris blowing into his eyes. I had to explain that he wasn't blindfolded at a gas station last summer.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

I never knew what those face masks for horses were until now.....


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

See...even animal people don't always understand. But Nchen....bet you hadn't turned anyone in for abuse had you? I don't think people truly understand what raising livestock is all about. There are times when we have to be "mean" in order to care for them. Just like, as parents, we sometimes have to be "mean" to our children. There is so much furor and uproar about how farmers mistreat their animals and how horrible we are to eat them, etc, that I think people are seeing the boogy man every time they turn around.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh, I grew up as a city girl, so I never had animals like I have them now. I never called anyone about that. no need to. if I saw a horse being abused, skinny as ever with welts all over their body, or in some sort of grave danger, then yes, i'll call someone about it (which I have already). the ones i've seen wear the face mask thingy wasn't in any distress, and I've seen horses wear them in other places (race track, pictures online, polo matches, etc). I just figured it was a way to keep them calm in those situations. but now I know what they are!!

there's an issue island wide here where ex-race horses are given away usually to village kids, who do not have the means or space to keep a horse. so there are too many instances island wide where you find neglected and abused horses. the ones I called in about (2 instances). one there were skinny horses standing in the middle of the road at night, on a really dark road, and their "pasture" is just scrubby bush. I drive by that bush before, but I've never seen horses so I just wanted the authorities to go see what's going on (and why the horses were getting out at night to hang out on the road). and the second time was again, I saw some village guy riding, and one horse had flesh missing from his rump, and skinny. not sure the deal, so I wanted them to look. the problem is, they move the horses around so sometimes when someone shows up to look, there's nothing to look at.....

there is another field we drive by frequently where someone ties horses there sometimes. there was a skinny horse there the other day. I make sure I didn't see any rope wrapped around feet. i'll have to call someone about that soon.....

I think people just need to critically think about certain situations. if an animal is in danger, yes, call someone to help. if they look calm and happy and well cared for, there's no need to fret. there are animals out there that ACTUALLY need help. no need to waste the authorities' time on those who don't.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I have to agree with you Nchen. Unless the animal is in distress, there is no need to interfere. Starvation IS distress and it is sad to see that happen. I got one once that was starving to death, but the people just didn't know better....they thought he was just a hard keeper (or at least that's what they told me) and were afraid to feed more because they were afraid of colic. I know there are people around here that think it's horrible that animals are out in the weather. But the animals that are out there seem to be doing ok and are use to it. My horses, given a choice, will not even stay in the corral with the windbreak if they can go out to pasture unless the weather is really, really bad.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

yes, the largest beef producer on island has his cows outside all the time (they're on hundreds of acres). the other day driving by, I saw the skinniest cow I've seen in my life, but I've also never seen this cow before in his pasture (he has those red polled jersey type cows), and this one is black. since all the other cows are plump and healthy, I'm chalking this up to the fact that he rescued it from somewhere. so, I'm not really fretting. just want to make sure that gal starts getting fat soon!


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