# Grungy coat



## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I can't seem to figure this grungy coat thing out. The just look drab. The have loose minerals available and have had a copper bolus. They get alfalfa pellets and plenty of browse. I mix BOSS and ground flax into their feed. I am seeing no improvements at all. I worry about liver flukes but how do you kill them in a pregnant doe? There urine is yellow tented so they are good on b vitamins. Everybody is pooping fine.....

Blah....just wish I could get them looking healthy. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Riverside Fainters (Feb 6, 2013)

Maybe have a fecal ran, check for a parasite load


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well we did that originally and they recommended Ivomec 3 times 10 days apart. Then I saw pin worms and tapeworms in one does poop so we did safeguard for three days. The first fecal that was done they said nothing about pin or tape worms. The second one they said was fine. Vet will be here this Friday and we are going to send each individual goats in. We are going to do a second round of Ivomec here shortly because I don't think the first round got all the mites. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes I agree, fecal check & proceed accordingly.

Posted at same time. What was the dose? There are some areas that are becoming resistant to Ivermectin.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

We did 1 cc per 50# by injection for Ivomec. We are not in a resistant area. We also didn't want to over worm them because we were afraid the worm count was very high. 

Safeguard was 3x the weight for each dose three days in a row. 

The Ivomec was for a gastrointestinal worm (can't remember the name off the top of my head)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

The last round of Ivomec didn't go so swell. Everybody ended up with the scours 6 hours later. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I remember these gals - you rescued them right? You're right, they still look rough, but new fur coats and weight gain take a long time! A LOT longer than they took to get that way. If I remember correctly - some of them are pregnant as well? You are fighting a long uphill battle and likely years of neglect.

How long have you had them on the minerals and how long ago did you copper bolus? I wouldn't expect to see significant results from that for 3 months.

When was the last dose of Ivomec? Did you repeat the 3 day sequence of Safeguard after 10 days?

At this point I would just wait for your fecal analysis to come back before doing any more deworming. Copper & protein will help them fight off worms so keep up the minerals and feed. The BOSS and flax are likely doing them good even if you can't tell yet!

For future reference, fecals are only $5 if you mail samples to MidAmerica Agricultural Research. 

Will your vet be drawing blood to test for CAE (CL? Johnes?) and pregnancy?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

We got them June 17th. We traded a guy for them because we had a bunch of stuff laying around we didn't need and the goats looked bad. We took in 4 nannies with 2 bucklings. Bucklings look amazing now and are being rehomed. The nannies look as though they are all bred. The guy said late October is when they should kid. About 2 weeks ago is when all their vulvas tipped down and elongated. On Friday the actual goat vet is coming to do CL, CAE, and johnes, plus the fecals and a full trace mineral analysis. He is also doing pregnancy tests on all 8 of our does. 

I don't have to pay anything but the price of gas for them to come out because they owe me big time for miss diagnosis in my horse that cost me thousands of dollars over a year and then I ended up doing 1 nights worth of research and figures out what was wrong.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Last does of Ivomec was July 17th and the doses of safeguard was July 19th threw 21st

The have been on loose minerals for a little over a month. Copper bolus was done on June 21st


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh and Lucy who is on the far right in the picture is loosing her hair. If I scratch her it comes out in gobs


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## HappyHarrisFarm97 (Apr 13, 2013)

I didn't start seeing that glossy smooth coat until I started mixing in manna pro goat balancer with their feed every day. Within about a month even my most scraggly haired guy is smooth and glossy.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I didn't know they made a goat balancer. I only thought they had the manna pro and then the manna pro goat mineral. I will look into the balancer.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## HappyHarrisFarm97 (Apr 13, 2013)

It has an anise flavor. I use half the amount called for and they are thriving with it. If you choose to use it, you may would want to use the full dose until you get them looking like you want though. WARNING: You are going to have to trim hooves a little more often!

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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I don't trim hooves. Hubby does...hehehe actually we have yet to trim any of ours. The are wearing down really good on their own but that's due to the way our land is. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

Do the other advice, but if all the problem is is the coat maybe try trimming their hair. There might be a nice new layer under there?!?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I thought about shaving them but wasn't sure because my weather is crazy if it would bother them or not.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Chadwick (Jan 24, 2014)

It probably will! Just a thought, not a sure thing. I would surely follow the other advise too!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

If I feed the manna goat balancer I assume I will have to stop feeding kelp with my loose minerals because the balancer has kelp in it?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Do you dose them with probiotics after each deworming? If not, I think that would help some.


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## HappyHarrisFarm97 (Apr 13, 2013)

Oh, I don't know. Can they eat too much kelp?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

If you keep the kelp meal and loose mineral out free choice then I would just leave it out for them even if you add the balancer. But if you have been top-dressing the kelp meal then yes I would stop that when you add the balancer due to the iodine.

I would bet that Chadwick is correct - there is likely fresh, shiny, soft hair under those "grungy coats". That is probably why the one goat is losing it in clumps.

It really sounds like you are doing everything you need to do and have a really good handle on all of this, I think you are just expecting too much too soon. I know it is embarrassing to own animals that look like that but it is truly no fault of your own! If it is staying over 50 deg. F consistently and they have a good dry shelter then I think shaving them would be totally fine and they will definitely look better.

Sorry to hear about your vet mishap but very glad that you can get everything you need done on these goats. They are going to be beautiful animals 6 months from now!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I mix the kelp in with my loose mineral. 2 parts mineral to 1 part kelp. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

One year I ahd girls looking so bad..everything I did failed...then I shaved them lol..and was excited to see what was under there!! My oberhasli looked the worse..she even seemed boney to me..but once I shaved her she was beautiful!!...Maynot be the issue here..but its worth a try...as long as temps are not freezing and they have a draft free shelter I wouldnt worry too much about then being cold..you can also fit them with an old t shirt for the cooler night/morning air

one thing that really helped also was mixing flax seed and wheat germ with coconut oil..I fed a tablspoon or so twice daily..they loved it and it helped their coat


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I would get another fecal float on them. There is for sure something going on and it can take a long time to get rid of them. With the dewormer you are killing the live worms, then when you do it again later you are killing the ones that have hatched since the first round, and that could take several treatments to get them all. I would also start ehme slowely on some gran with a good protein, keep up the alfalfa pellets and the Boss. What is the loose mineral? They could be lacking a good mineral. I would give them a Vit B12 and and maybe a A&D shot.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

They were on a loose cattle mineral because I couldn't find a goat mineral that had enough copper or selenium in it. It was a brand from a local farm store. I think it has been almost a week sense I switched them to sweetlix meat maker. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

cow minerals are usually good choices : ) 

did you do wormer 3 times 10 days apart then againin 30 days?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

cow minerals are usually good choices : ) 

did you do wormer 3 times 10 days apart then againin 30 days?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

The Ivomec was done for 3 doses each dose 10 days apart. June 27, July 7, and July 17th. The last one won't be until august 16. The safeguard was given July 19,20,21


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

is this ivomec or ivomec plus? only the plus kills liver fluke if that is an issue in your area..

a fecal would let you know if your wormer was successful


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Just Ivomec cause the does are bred. Second fecal on July 10 came back clean however July 17 is when I saw pin worms and tape worms. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Liver fluke is not common here however I got them out of state so I don't know. I tried doing the fecal test with some poop pellets wrapped in gauze and soak them in water over night but I found nothing 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I sold my microscope like an idiot about 2 weeks before I got goats :-( should have kept it. It came from a chemistry lab.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

well as long as fecals are coming back clean then worm should not be the issue..

have you ruled out lice and mites?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

They all have mites but isn't the Ivomec suppose to take care of them? Some goats have gotten better while others look worse 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

with mites you have to be a little more aggressive...ivomec needs to be done 3 times a week apart...some will need it longer...also treating bedding...you can also mix some tea tree ess. oil in a carrier oil to treat atopically...or 7 dust or python dust...I put it in a sock and pat it all over avoiding eyes and nose area..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well I thought my goats knew where their mineral was.......

I have been adding to the loose mineral bit by bit. Not a lot was being eaten. So I moved it yesterday evening. I measured out 1 1/4 cup of loose mineral/kelp mix. This morning every single bit was gone. I refilled it again this morning with 1 1/4 cup. This evening it was all gone. Every little speck they could have possibly gotten out. So, I refilled it again tonight with 1 1/4 cup. Will see in the morning is there is any left.

Could they be so depleted they are eating that much??? Is this bad for them? Or is something else eating my mineral? Dogs won't touch it. The only thing around is deer and that's if my dogs don't got after them. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

at first they will eat it like crazy then level out as they get what they need : ) its shouldbe fine...1 1/4 cup is not too much : )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well here we go. All four of my pregnant boer does have barberpole worms. Two of them have almost completely WHITE inner eyelids. I am so stinking frustrated with this it is ridiculous. This is the third fecal on these guys. However this was the first time a goat vet did it. How am I suppose to go about treating these guys? I can't get red cell till in the morning that's if and only if TSC has it in stock. The vet just left me a message and when I called back didn't get an answer so, what do I treat them with for the barberpole?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok...I might have said this already, SO FORGIVE ME IF I DID LOL.. BUT barpole and Liver fluke look very much alike under the mic..its best to treat for both..you need to use Ivomec plus...which is safe for pregnant does..I know many are afraid it will harm them but I have used it for years..and grant you I dont normally worm pregnant does but there are times we need to...the PLUS has Clorsulon in it and has been rated safe for pregnant animals...first dose should be injected to prevent bleed out or toxicity 1 cc per 40# then you can follow booster orally 1 cc per 33#

here is a case study where it was used on a pregnant goat

http://jakraya.com/journal/pdf/1-vriarticle_5.pdf
and another which states "considered safe for pregnant animals

http://books.google.com/books?id=ie...nepage&q=clorsulon and pregnant goats&f=false

Start by treating for worm load..and then treat anemia...you can mix 50/50 acv and water and drench 30cc daily....B 12 high protien feed and alfalfa and leaves all help rebuild red blood cells..if you cant get red cell..get pig injectable iron..always have a large doseof benedryl ready or epi pen inase of reaction..( some goat do react to injecatable)

best wishes


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have plenty of Benadryl and epinephrine. At this point I would rather save my does. How soon do I need to do the booster of Ivomec plus? I'm going to collect fecal samples tomorrow and send them off to midamerica on Monday. These vets are making me so mad. I may have to get injectable iron which I hate to do. I have iron tablets but I figured that will kill a goats GI tract


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree!!!

I would worm 3 times 10 days apart then again in 30 days...inject dose one and then if you choose you can do oral on the boosters


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh, how much red cell and how much injectable iron? Red cell is 6 cc per 100# right? Once or twice a day? 

Is epinephrine still 1cc per 100#? (I know it is in horses) 

Could I go ahead and give Benadryl prior to iron shot to keep a reaction from happening? (I take it before i got out trail riding incase I get stung by a bee :-/ it keeps me from have a horrible reaction)


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

So what so I do if TSC doesn't have Ivomec plus? Online it says my local stores don't carry it??? I'm afraid for these goats to wait :-( Ethel is eating good but she looks miserable


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

What will cydectin treat? 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

injectable iron is 4 cc per 100# and red cell 6 cc per 100#...once a day for a week then once a week until color returns and yes you can give some benedryl a few minutes before the shot : ) 
and yes 1 cc per 100# on the epi...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

many wormer treat barpole, including Cydectin...but only Ivomec plus and valbazen get liver fluke..without a trustworthy fecal you should treat for both...we buy Ivomec plus at cattle suply stores as well..find any farm supply and see if they carry it?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

This stinks. LoL I am sooooo tired. I should my CAE/CL and johnes and pregnancy results back at the beginning of the week too. My husband is going to hate hearing more b complex shots lol cause last time I did them for five days with the first shot and three days with the others plus probios. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Can I cheat and drench the ACV, red cell, and probios all together?



Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That would be alot to get down all at once lol..I would do one at a time. since the ACV/water is about 30 cc and red cell is another 6 cc at least plus the probiotics..Yep..thats a lot lol..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well worse case scenario we won't be able to get the Ivomec plus till Monday. Our TSC our horrible about stocking stuff. I was just there this evening and I don't recall seeing it but I will call around tomorrow before I burn a ton in gas hunting it down. I know my local farm supply has it (they have everything you can dream of) but they won't be open till Monday. 

I wish I would have checked their eyelids sooner. I feel so dumb for not doing it.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Our TSC has dropped the ball on alot of meds too...

I would begin treating the anemia....at least that will help...


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

SalteyLove said:


> I would bet that Chadwick is correct - there is likely fresh, shiny, soft hair under those "grungy coats". That is probably why the one goat is losing it in clumps.
> 
> It really sounds like you are doing everything you need to do and have a really good handle on all of this, I think you are just expecting too much too soon. I know it is embarrassing to own animals that look like that but it is truly no fault of your own! /QUOTE]
> 
> You are so right Saltey! It takes a lot of time with some goats! I have one right now that is just starting to come around and I have been working on her for 4 months. I ended up brushing a LOT of dead hair out and I have added beet pulp to her diet along with drying her off...she is just starting to show improvement...copper bolus was in March..and after she kidded in May, she went WAY downhill...so now we are starting to go back up. She is just a hard keeper!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm not looking to see huge changes but when 6 weeks goes by and there are no improvements and condition has worsened then it's time to start doing things different. Each of my does get 2lbs of supplemental feed a day. They have access to all the browse they could want and unlimited. A very high wormload seems to be the reason they can't gain or improve. Just aggravates me that they didn't catch this in the previous fecals. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Lucy the one with the hair falling out, you can see her skin threw her coat. That's how thin her hair is. I will get some pictures while I'm outside today.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

HappyHarrisFarm97 said:


> View attachment 75053
> View attachment 75054
> It has an anise flavor. I use half the amount called for and they are thriving with it. If you choose to use it, you may would want to use the full dose until you get them looking like you want though. WARNING: You are going to have to trim hooves a little more often!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Goat Forum


I did pick up a bag of the balancer at TSC yesterday. Amazingly they had it

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Here are pictures from today.







Ethel on right, Lucy on left







Lucy in front, Ethel behind her







pippa!!!!







tonka

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

According to their teeth all of these gals are 3-4years old.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Once you get the worm issue taken care of you will see improvement : )


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## Mcclan3 (Feb 13, 2014)

All the important things have already been mentioned, but I wanted to say good luck with getting these gals back to health


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Thank you. We are starting full treatment tomorrow so hopefully after getting them wormed and treating the anemia we will start seeing some good results. I'm going to get some pooch pictures tonight and see what everyone thinks. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I know I said this already..but be sure to do the first dose injected..sub Q...then if you choose go oral for boosters...It does sting and some goats act worse then others..just be prepared...get them walking and rub the sight...

injecting works slower and help prevent bleed out and or toxicity ... I keep cd antitoxin handy if a goat acts sluggish or lethargic after worming...MOM will work as well..helps flush the toxins from the heavy dead worm load..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have cd antitoxin order but it's on back order till Friday. I have plenty of MOM on hand. I will give all of the Ivomec plus injections SQ. All my goats act like you are killing them when they get a shot except my billies. Doesn't matter what you are injecting. 

I did get injectable iron instead of red cell. I wasn't able to get the Ivomec plus till later this evening and I didn't want to do all this late at night and not be able to keep them under close eye. So we will start first thing in the morning. 




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Should I put alfalfa pellets out free choice for them?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Alfalfa pellets wont hurt : ) 

injecable iron is fine : )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Don't think the pooch shots are going to happen lol they do not like me behind them at all!!!


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol..they can be shy at times...we get the best pix when we put out feed or a big cut branch ...get pix while they eat : )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

if you look to the far left you will see tonka. Is it typical for a pregnant does stomach to drop and hollow out under the spine in front of the hips? It does this off and on. Mostly when she is relaxing

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

when babies drop under mom this happens.... things to look for to see if they are indeed bred are...the vulva tip will be pointing down and not upward...there maybe some longating of the vulva and a relaxed look ...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

In my opinion, from what I have seen on here and read, they are all bred. Everybody within the last 2-3 weeks have gone from tight scrunched up vulva to a long tipped down vulva. I had blood test done anyway.

I have a buck that shares the fence with them and none if them have cycled. I haven't seen the first sign of ANY of my eight does in heat. All my does look bred to me. (Which really pisses my off) only 4 (the boer does) were purchased knowing they were exposed. Me being a first timer I can only pray my experienced healthier does go first.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh I forgot to tell you. The abscess on one of my boers (Lucy) was not CL


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

nannyrus I have no advice but I just wanted to give you a thumbs up! I'm sorry it's been so rough on you and your goats lately. Your energy and commitment to heal these goats inspires me. You are teaching me a lot. I wish I was closer...I would be there to help ya. If there is any silver lining..... not only are you helping these goats....you are helping folks like me too. Thank you. :hug:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Oh I forgot to tell you. The abscess on one of my boers (Lucy) was not CL


AWeSOme news!!!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Me being a first timer I can only pray my experienced healthier does go first.


they are all in good hands!! and lucky to be there!! ..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Here is out plan of attack and a few questions I have:

-Ivomec plus 1cc per 40# sq we will give 3 doses at ten day intervals and last dose at 30 day interval

-red cell 6cc per 100# given 7 consecutive day then once a week membrane returns to color

- probios 5 gram dose will be given every AM will do for a minimum of 5 days or longer depending on condition 

- b complex 4 cc per 100# dose will be give daily for minimum of 5 days or longer depending on condition

Now questions:

Will this Ivomec plus take care if any remaining mites? 

Does the Ivomec plus take care of barber pole, liver fluke, pin worms, and or tapeworms? We have physically seen pinworms and tapeworms and fecals showed barber pole.

I know I can't overdose on b complex so can I give this until I think they are acting more like a "goat"? Ethel is very drained. She is eithe eating or sleeping. Doesn't move around much. 

Probios - Lucy and Ethel being the two that have much higher worm counts will be getting probios twice a day instead of once. 

I went and got red cell today because ALL of our does had bad reactions to the injection. So hopefully the red cell will be easier on them.




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Will have more of an update tomorrow. Our does usually start scouring 24hours after the Ivomec.... Blah....

I have an electrolyte mixture ready to go and lactated ringers incase anybody starts showing really bad signs. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Will this Ivomec plus take care if any remaining mites? YES..but usally we give it 3 times a week apart..but it should help as their immune system strengthens

Does the Ivomec plus take care of barber pole, liver fluke, pin worms, and or tapeworms? We have physically seen pinworms and tapeworms and fecals showed barber pole. everything but pin and tape..

I know I can't overdose on b complex so can I give this until I think they are acting more like a "goat"? Ethel is very drained. She is eithe eating or sleeping. Doesn't move around much. YES

Probios - Lucy and Ethel being the two that have much higher worm counts will be getting probios twice a day instead of once. watch for scours

I went and got red cell today because ALL of our does had bad reactions to the injection. So hopefully the red cell will be easier on them...
once they have an allergic reaction to injecable you need to watch close..have epi or benedryl ready..


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

This is as good as the pooch shots get for now. Will try again in the morning

What is the deal with all the poop stuck to them? It's not runny. It drives me nuts and my other does aren't like that, however they are much healthier.







Lucy







Tonka







Ethel







Pippa

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Here are some more. I tried using some "sweet feed" earlier to get them to hold still but they hated it so didn't stand still long. So their favorite thing- maple branches  so this time I got better pictures I think

Is it bad when you know which goat is which from a pooch shot? LoL







Ethel (side view - she is so sunken in you can't get a good back view picture







Lucy







pippa







tonka

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

they do look bred. 
That is not poop by the way..but oil secretion build up from their glands I beleive ; ) I find some goats have more then others


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well their butts are getting a bath tomorrow lol 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

If the wax is really stuck on, olive oil will help loosen it up.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

We didn't get to clean their butts today but thank you goat hiker. I will try that.

So, we just gave red cell and b complex this morning which was quite interesting. After their shots they stood around kind of just looking at us trying to figure out what we were going to do to the next. We waited a few hours to feed them. 

I have never seen Ethel and Lucy gobble down food before. Ever. They usually pick threw it very carefully. Not today. They were chowing down. Like they haven't seen food in a year. Even tonka did it. Tonka is extremely picky with her food (she will literally only pick out boss and whole oats and very small alfalfa pellets) she will leave anything and everything else behind. 

But anyway I will keep everyone updated on how they are doing. Oh, and they are sinking about 5 gallons a day between 6 of them.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

B complex can sure stir the appitite!! The red cell may perk them up as well...as they begin to feel better :-D


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well no real update tonight. Everybody seems to be doing good. I did my poop walk tonight and seen no evidence of any type of scours. 

Didn't see any worms in anybody's poop either 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

When should I do another fecal? This time I'm sending it off to midamerica 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would do a fecal at least a week after meds were given....



> I did my poop walk tonight


 :ROFL: I thought we were the only ones to call it that !!! My kids are always saying..Moms on her poop walk lol


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

happybleats said:


> I would do a fecal at least a week after meds were given....
> 
> :ROFL: I thought we were the only ones to call it that !!! My kids are always saying..Moms on her poop walk lol


Lol that's funny! I think my husband thinks I'm crazy cause I go out with a flash light hunting fresh poop.

Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I have not seen any form of worm in their poop. Should I be seeing any?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you will only see tape or pin worms in stool....


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I looked at that link you posted. I will take a picture for you tomorrow. That's is exactly how I am checking them. I was shocked. Especially at tonka because she is a big ol girl and extremely strong and fiesty. I would have never guessed her inner lids would be pale but they are. I will take pictures of all the boer does tomorrow. The insides of their mouth is the same way.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

that is weird...Ill look for the pix tomorrow


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

I'm hoping tomorrow you will tell me I'm wrong and I am just being dramatic about it lol


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

lol...being wrong in this case is a good thing ; )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh I would so do a happy dance if someone proved me wrong. I thought I was looking at all the boers wrong until I looked at daisy. She has a nice pink color. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

We have had a monsoon for the past two days so I couldn't get pictures. I will take pictures tomorrow when we do their b complex shot. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh also, is their anything else I can do for Ethel? She is dragging butt, literally. The poor girl walks around so drained looking. Even at feeding time it takes her forever to come get feed. I am going to separate her and Lucy at night. That way they are fed alone both times I the day but out with the other ones during they day. I don't want to just separate Ethel. (Her and Lucy are full sisters and get along great) I am thinking about leaving them with free choice alfalfa pellets so that they can have whatever they need sense they are the worst two. I tried leaving alfalfa pellets out for all of them but tonka guards them. She doesn't eat them just doesn't want anybody else too.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Penning them seperate might be a good idea...B complex maybe extra B 12 would help her energy

are you still going red cell?


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Yes she is still getting red cell. Monday will be her 7 day dose. She is getting 4cc daily of b complex. She barely weighs 55lbs. She is browsing when everyone else does but my pastures are no where near flat so in order for them to come up and get feed they have a pretty good climb to make. She does it just much slower than everyone else. She just acts "blah" so to speak. Should I continue giving her red cell longer? She is still getting probios as well. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

The vet I use won't give me thiamine because I don't have "proper cause"...... How stupid. We are going to VT at the beginning of next week and I will just get some from them. 

Also, I need to send new fecals in on Monday to midamerica can you give me any tips for how to package them?


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

you can use Fortified B complex..it has plenty of thiamine...B 12 is also RX but you can get enough of that in B complex PLUS...I would at this point choose B complex plus for th B 12..

I would check her eye lids..if the is color returning then I would finish one week daily of red cell then go to once a week...if she is still pretty white then yes afew extra days wont over dose her...
She maybe just weak and penning her might help her reserve energy to eat better...Are you giving her ACV daily? mixing 50/50 with water will help her recover faster...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

My b complex has 100mg of thiamine per mL. 




Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Yes to the ACV. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats plenty of Thiamine...: )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

The crappy part about all of this is we are moving soon. :-( stress is not going to help this situation but at least we will have better facilities.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Oh.... We got all if test results back. All 8 of my does are bred (irritates me only 4 were sold to me know they had been exposed) and everybody came back CAE/CL and johnes neg. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

well good news on the CAE and such!!! I know you werent expecting them all to be bred but they are in good hands...keep working on getting them healthy and prepared to be moms..but be prepared to need to bottle raise any from mom who just can not support kids...: )


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

That's what we have been preparing for is either the moms are going to be too weak or my young doelings are going to have complications or be mortified of what just came out of them. 

One of my thoughts was that if Ethel kids okay to just go ahead and pull them off of her so we can get her back into shape. I would rather bottle raise then to have one drag her down even worse. 


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree...!!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

That and bottle raised boers bring better money around here for whatever reason. We are going to retain all doelings.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well still no pictures. This rain is kicking our butts. 

I tried to take a picture but my phone got wet and then I tried in the barn and the flash made her look like an alien and you couldn't see anything.

On a positive note. Ethel seemed much better this evening. She usually stands hunched up with her feet under her and her neck arched like she is in pain. This evening she was walking around with her back stretched out in. Very relaxed manor. Still eating good and good poop so no problems their. Threw all this she has never lost her appetite which is a miracle. 

I'm trying to come up with a good game plan as they will be kidding anywhere from October 1st to November 17th. I am contemplating giving them another copper bolus at the end if September, Bo-se before they kid, and calcium drench. Any opinions or anything else that can help these deliver easier? I know raspberry leaves but I don't know where to get that.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would give BoSe about 30 days before kidding....Raspberry leaves I beleive you can order from Mountain rose herbs...? I think being prepared for the worse and praying for the best is needed...I wouldnt drench calcium before kidding but I would keep it handy in case...along with everything thy COULD need med and supplement wise...

Putting lavender ess. oil in a few places in the kidding pen will help promote calmess...


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Okay! Sorry for a very late update. We are finally in the moving process and it has been a hassle!

Here is Lucy! Huge change in her. Old coat has fallen out and the new has come. She looks like she has been clipped.














Here's Ethel. Not much change in her but she was the worst. She has definitely perked up some and getting around better.








Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Every bodies anemia is clearing up nicely. Ethel is still has very pale eyelids but the are no longer starch white but a tad bit pink. Tonka and pippa bounced back fast after receiving Ivomec plus and Lucy is very much on her way to being normal!


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Mcclan3 (Feb 13, 2014)

So gad to hear the good news


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Well we are moving these guys to there new pasture either today or tomorrow! Our property now has no woods on it so when we bought this new property having woods for the goats was a must! We are going to rotate them between woods and our horses pasture so they are finally going to be able to have a little bit of everything. We still have mountain laurel to pull out of the ground but other than that I think we are good to go!! Hopefully this won't stress them too much.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Naunnie (Jul 4, 2014)

I've been thinking about y'all. They are looking so good! I can see a big difference.:applaud: Congrats on the new place. Moving is never fun but I bet your excited. I hope every one settles down quickly for you. They are gonna love the trees. :razz: Looking forward to more updates and pictures.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad they are doing better for you.


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Even though Ethel hasn't changed much she looks "cleaner". One of the pictures I have posted in the first really shows how nasty Lucy looked. She just looked so grungy. I am so pleased to see her making such great improvement. Especially in the picture looking down at her back. You can really start to see the weight gain and she is actually developing muscles!!! I was beginning to think they were just going to be grungy skinny goats but comparing the pictures really restores hope!


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Lucy on the right before we started Ivomec plus 3-4 weeks ago








And then now








Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

wow..big difference, I do see a nice change in Lucy as well...maybe not in size but like you said..cleaner....good job!!! they are looking well


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Here are some new pictures of Lucy. She is being my helper today.




















And Ethel who decided to hide in the grape








Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Definitely getting better!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Lucy has blown my mind. I cannot believe the changes in her.


Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Here's a little bit better one of Ethel














Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

More of Lucy. She is due end October early November


























Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

They DO look better!! ..its a slow process but I see huge improvements in not just weight but coat condition!! Great job!


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## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Aight here a few more of Ethel. She hated being tethered at first but now that she realizes she gets all kinds of goodies and no other goat can bug her she kind of likes it. And she is getting friendlier. We have decided she will be out every day on a tether and we will rotate the others until we get more ground ties.



























And one of her tether buddy








Samantha

"5 minutes of fresh air is equivalent to 5 mg Valium"


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## Mcclan3 (Feb 13, 2014)

Looking great!


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