# Doe post kidding infection



## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I swear, I can't catch a break. My doe who kidded yesterday morning had a slight clear runny nose going into labor yesterday morning and mild cough, no fever. Took her and baby to the vet after she kidded and he gave them both a shot of Excell (sp?). She hasn't been drinking much today but has eaten well. Late tonight she seemed a little "off" when I went to check on her and baby before turning in myself and she was really coughing up a storm. She didn't want her snacks. I checked her temp and it was 107.1! Double checked to make sure. So I gave her benadryl, ibuprofen, and four human calcium supplements (just in case of milk fever before coming in and reading that didn't fit) before beginning the process of hosing her down to drop that temp. I got it down to 104.5 just awhile ago and am going to check again in a bit. What I noticed a little odd this evening is she has no discharge that I would expect post-kidding. She did pass the entire placenta an hour after kidding (at least it appeared to be whole to me) but little discharge since. Thought that was odd, but she's been a bit abnormal through this anyway. We're obviously taking a trip to the vet in the morning (again) because I'm thinking something possibly retained at this point or maybe pneumonia. I did try to "bounce" her and felt nothing bounce back. I never entered her during delivery or afterwards because she had no problems. I did spray blue coat on her pooch afterwards to keep the gnats off.
She's strong and walking very well, just lethargic this evening standing off by herself and wasn't her typical self so I knew something was wrong. She hasn't been drinking much at all, and refused drinking even right after kidding (but ate).
I guess we'll find out in a couple hours at the vet when they open, but anybody else had minimal discharge post-delivery? When she urinates, only urine comes out (no blood or discharge at all) and it's not much so I'm sure she's also dehydrated now. Eyelids bright pink (wormed yesterday after kidding), normal stools. Also, should I pull the baby and bottle feed until we know what's going on? I imagine she already has what mama has if it's contagious and not retention. Baby nursed for only a few seconds before stopping this evening, no fever but starting slight runny nose (clear), lots of energy still. Looks like I'm going to have to waste all of that nice colostrum I collected. :sigh: And the last two days have been really wonderful with things going well.
Any suggestions appreciated.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh Aimee, I am so sorry to hear this! How scary that this is happening! I hope the vet figures out what is going on with her ASAP and that she will be okay! Poor Karma! Nothing like seeing them down and out  Lots of thoughts and prayers going your way!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

with the coughing I am going to presume its some kind of pneumonia 

the vet shoudl have sent you home with some excenel because that isnt a one time shot. What was the dosage he used? I have a dosage for excenel of 1cc per 40lbs so she should get a couple ccs 

if you cant get the excenel then I would give her an oxtytetracycline (LA 200, Duramycin Biomycin etc) for 5 days at a rate of 1cc per 20lbs


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Perfect7 said:


> I never entered her during delivery or afterwards because she had no problems. I did spray blue coat on her pooch afterwards to keep the gnats off.
> ...
> When she urinates, only urine comes out (no blood or discharge at all) and it's not much so I'm sure she's also dehydrated now.


Fever...recent kidding...gnats on vajajay...squatting to pee and only peeing a little bit at a time...

UTI, maybe?

Just a shot in the dark, but that's what pops into my head right off the bat.

I agree w/ Stacey on the Excenel...I typically use it @ 1ml/50lbs for five days, and the multiple days thing is much more important than the ml/lb dosage difference.. One shot of pretty much any antibiotic isn't going to prove helpful with goats.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Diagnosis is mild pneumonia and dehydration. I was wrong on the antibiotic, it was Exceed (sp?). She went in and checked her, closed. Couldn't feel anything retained, raspy lungs and mild dehydration. She gave her a shot of banamine and 500 cc of ringers sq, with me to repeat later tonight at home. She wants to give the antibiotic until tomorrow to work good and of not said she will put her on another. She swore Exceed was a one dose-one week med??? I'll have to google now. We've had horrible thunderstorms all week, so hope nobody else pops up sick. Uhg!!!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is never easy... when an animal gets sick ...at least she has treatment started and should mend quickly.... ray:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so sorry, but at least as far as kidding goes - that sounds to be fine. Hopefully the meds will work and she'll clear up real soon. And at least she started getting worse 'after' kidding, couldn't imagine having one feeling so miserable during kidding. She has a good mommy looking after her, so she'll get back to her old self soon


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

So glad you were on top of this. Good for you. Keep us posted.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you everyone. Karma still refused to drink anything and when baby would try to nurse she was either lifting her leg to push baby off or walking off. I think her nose is plugged so she can't smell baby, and baby isn't making a lot of noises.  Brought baby in and tried all the bottle tricks after milking out only 2 oz from mom (couldn't get anymore than that). Baby's sides were looking hollow. :hair: Tried to syringe feed, didn't fly. She didn't want to swallow anything. Okay, so then I dropped a stomach tube and gravity fed 2 oz. Keep in mind I've been out of the medical field for 5 years now, so I was like a one-legged man in a.....well, you know the rest. Blew on the end of the syringe and heard bubbles in reply, so it's all good. (Whew!)
Took baby back to mom, gave mom half a bucket of warm molasses water and the skies parted, angels sang! Karma drank the whole thing and THEN went and drank from the cool water. She began to call for baby, who answered, and they walked off into the shade to rest. ray: 
Normal temps all around right now. Baby has yellow baby poo and mom has soft stools. I'm giving her probios with the antibiotic now. The correct spelling on the invoice is Excede, and Karma weighs 149 lbs.
Okay, we're good for at least two hours, right? How much should I be feeding baby if mom doesn't let her the next go-round? The good news is we're both getting better at milking. :roll: Maybe now I can eat.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Perfect7 said:


> Diagnosis is mild pneumonia and dehydration. I was wrong on the antibiotic, it was Exceed (sp?). She went in and checked her, closed. Couldn't feel anything retained, raspy lungs and mild dehydration. She gave her a shot of banamine and 500 cc of ringers sq, with me to repeat later tonight at home. She wants to give the antibiotic until tomorrow to work good and of not said she will put her on another. She swore Exceed was a one dose-one week med??? I'll have to google now. We've had horrible thunderstorms all week, so hope nobody else pops up sick. Uhg!!!!


Excede...it's marketed as a one-dose antibiotic, but I can't find much in the way of reference to its use in goats. It's ceftiofur, same as Naxcel and Excenel, but it's 200mg/ml instead of 50mg/ml. Pretty sure Naxcel is ceftiofur _sodium_ and that Excenel is ceftiofur _hydrochloride_...Excede is ceftiofur _crystalline free acid_, whatever the hell that means.

Do some homework on it...could be like a 'slow release' version of Excenel, which might be OK -- provided it slowly releases the same amount of ceftiofur goatfolk usually give a goat. With the metabolic rates of goats and cattle being so different, though...I really dunno that it would hang around as long in a goat as it would in a cow.

Also, if you look at the label on Excede, you're instructed to give the stuff right in the skin of ear or at the base of the ear. I have no idea why, but that's just....weird.

If this were mine, I'd query the vet *very thoroughly* on how this stuff is gonna work in a goat.. If the vet doesn't know, I'd consider requesting a switch to a form of ceftiofur that we at least have anecdotal dosage rates for...like Excenel.

Buy a whole bottle of Excenel, if you can. 'Bout $1/ml when I bought it, but it's shelf stable, very handy, and a bottle goes a long way.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

So good to hear she is doing much better, good job! Some of my girls dont have much post kidding disharge & some do, some will be fairly dry a few days then whoosh.
And take care of yourself too!


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you, cmjust0! Wow, then she got 1.6 grams of the stuff with 8cc? I guess now I should anticipate massive diarrhea, then. The vet injected it sub q in her neck. The ear, yep,that's really weird! Maybe it's supposed to slow down the release rate or something funky? If she runs a high temp again today (or tomorrow) I'm supposed to go down and get more banamine from them, and tomorrow a different antibiotic. Yes, it would probably be much better to buy a whole bottle than pay per shot, and would be nice to have it on hand. Just read they give swine the injection in the neck. Maybe they thought poor Karma was a pig? I mean, I know she got big and all but :laugh: 
Maybe the mistake came in when I said, "She's a boer". :slapfloor:
And now I get to look forward to the woosh in a couple days! Oh, the flies are going to love it here. 
**The really funny part was when she asked if I planned to eat Karma in the next 60 days before giving her the shot! I about passed out.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

LOL Just between you & me Boer & Pig are interchangable. :laugh:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

nancy d said:


> LOL Just between you & me Boer & Pig are interchangable. :laugh:


 My sides hurt! Quit! In all fairness to the vet, Karma has been making a sound that could easily be confused with a pig's noise (is that called a grunt?) since kidding.  :ROFL:


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh yes those grunts! Even one of the 5mo olds does it. Bringing hay this am, "Grunt grunt snort snort" Before she even dug in! Believe it or not her registered name is Lady. :wallbang:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm glad she seems to be feeling better! That is great news!

And the grunting stuff...LOL!!! Our herd queen who is due 'any time' will lay down by the roll of hay where she eats from a hole she formed in it, and she will make the most hysterical grunting sounds LOL


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Perfect7 said:


> Thank you, cmjust0! Wow, then she got 1.6 grams of the stuff with 8cc?


HOLY CRAP!

Um, ya...that's a lot. That's more in one dose than I've ever given of Excenel.. Most I've ever done of it would be 1ml/50lbs *2*x/day for 5 days to a 150lb+/- goat with a deadly-serious case of bacterial enteritis, and I thought that was a ton. Still only totalled 1.5g of ceftiofur over the course of five days!

Well...let us know how that works out, I guess. :shrug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh my! Baby got 1/2 cc herself at 10lbs. Guess I need to keep giving the probios for a whole week if it is continual release. Probably don't need to request a bottle of Excenel, then? :chin: 
That banamine sure kicked in good. Karma drank more molasses water and allowed baby to nurse for a couple minutes. I've never seen a thermometer read 107.1 before, so that was a bit intense. 
I read some old posts on here and Karma was sticking her tongue out, hanging out, the evening after delivery. Now that I've read that I should have checked her that evening for a high fever. I thought it was hormonal and she was "acting bucky". :doh: :scratch: (Note to self).

:laugh: Lady the grunting boer!
Hoosier, I think your grunting, hole digging, streamer flying girl is gonna pop soon!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Personally...and this is just me, but...I've never -- not once -- had a goat develop scours on account of injectable antibiotics. Seems to me that a goat has a really good "wall" between the gut and the rest of the body..

For instance, if you've got one with a bacterial gut infection and try to treat it strictly with injectable antibiotics...consider it dead. Conversely, as best I can tell, if you try to treat an infection anywhere other than the gut with oral antibiotics...not very effective. 

Given what folks say about the nature of goat pellets as primo fertilizer, I can't help but think they actually do a pretty good job walling off even the NUTRITION from their food. LMAO

Having said that, as for giving Probios...the way I see it, the biggest problem with Probios is that A) it's fairly costly, and B) it's hard to know when to use it and when not to use it.  If you use it when they scour, there's a fair to middlin' chance they just clear it all out without it really doing much good...but folks routinely use it when a goat's scouring. And if you use it 'proactively' to prevent a scour when you think they might get one, the fact that they don't scour still doesn't mean it worked...might just mean they were never going to scour to begin with.

Who knows.. I know to use it after scours I've treated with oral antibiotics, and if a kid gets a little weird in the poo department as it begins to try grass and weeds and all that stuff, it'll get about 5g.. Otherwise, I really dunno when we're "supposed" to use the stuff. LOL

Other than cost and the potential for waste, though, Probios is generally pretty harmless stuff. That is, I don't think you're gonna hurt anything except perhaps your pocketbook if you give it preventatively here...and it might be 100% worth doing. 

Hard to say. :shrug:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, if it's not necessary I will keep it for when it is. My pocketbook can use the break since I've at least paid the electric bill at the vet's this month alone. I'm running on empty in the brain cell department today, and that does make sense with oral versus non-oral administration. I'm thinking of people taking large amounts of antibiotics and getting "scours" :laugh: and nasty yeast infections. I will keep it and give it only *if* she gets diarrhea. For now everything seems to have leveled off so I will hold my breath and pray the worst is over.
Yeah, I knew I was skating by too easily with that textbook delivery of the cookie monster!
And Stacey, thank you so much for the antibiotic doses earlier! I wrote them in my medication journal for future reference and plan to go get something besides Pen G to keep on hand.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is excellent.... :thumbup: she drank all that...she really needed it....and now she calls for her baby...wow... what a miracle.... ray: .... so good to hear....keep us updated...

Too funny....  :laugh: :ROFL:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Thank you, Pam. All seems to be back to normal, and I'm not even seeing runny noses or hearing coughs tonight. Just checked temps and all is good. Karma has now had 3 buckets of warm molasses water (you guys taught me a good trick to get one to drink now, as long as it's warm!) and she is urinating in normal quantities finally. She just ate 1/3 of a bag of chips, too.  
Baby doesn't seem to eat much, but she has lots of energy so I'm trying not to obsess over it and just let them be. If she's hopping around, I'm sure she's fine. Everybody seems content tonight and I am much relieved. You guys are so great! I really would be completely lost without this board. :grouphug:


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I had 107+ in a post kidding infection this year and it was truly a marathon. We saved her but it was two full weeks before her fever would stabilize and stay down. She lost most of her hair and considerable weight. Good to hear that your girl is better.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

as long as teh baby is moving she is fine -- its when they sleep all hours of the day and act lethargic even when awake that you know they need assistance in the food department


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that about your doe, Elchivito. I'm pretty sure I read that early this morning when I was scanning for something about high temps after kidding. I hope she is recovered now!
And thank you, Stacey. That does make me feel better. That way even if I don't witness her eating I can tell she is okay. I was thinking that, but good to hear it verified from someone whose actually had new little babies before.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

I always get worried like that when I dont see them eat - and then I wonder if i need to pull to bottle feed. Everything I know jumps out the window when I have kids born LOL But my mom is great she is the one to remind me what I tell everyone else


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Perfect7 said:


> I'm sorry to hear that about your doe, Elchivito. I'm pretty sure I read that early this morning when I was scanning for something about high temps after kidding. I hope she is recovered now!
> And thank you, Stacey. That does make me feel better. That way even if I don't witness her eating I can tell she is okay. I was thinking that, but good to hear it verified from someone whose actually had new little babies before.


She's fine now, fit as a fiddle. I did have to bottle feed her babies, but once she started getting better she began to want to nurse them. She's gained her weight back and her coat is growing in nicely. I syringe fed her a corn oil-molasses-corn syrup and red cell mixture three times a day to get her weight back on. She loved it. Sucked it right out of an old probios syringe.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

Funny how that works.. lol I've got one doe who follows me around if she knows I have Red Cell -- LOVES it -- whereas some of our other goats hack and spit and snort if you get near their muzzle with it. Same with Probios; if our wether smells a 60g tube in my pocket, he'll flat out go in after it, whereas others cough and hack and act like you just drenched them with gear grease or something..

Here's something weird for ya...the majority of my goats, for whatever reason, seem to like the taste of Dectomax injectable. Ivomec?--gross! Dectomax?--can I have some more, please?

:laugh:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Thank you, Pam. All seems to be back to normal,


 :hug: 
Glad everything is OK.... :thumb: :hug: :hi5:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Still good today (four days post kidding)! Karma is eating, drinking, no temp or coughing/nasal discharge. Baby Kachina is hopping all over the place like a rabbit and even trying to nibble at some grass. Just wanted to clarify that on the vet's invoice it says the Excede is 100 ml per 1cc. I'm sure that's a typo and it means 100 mg per 1cc, so maybe it's a different concentration than the cow version? Maybe it's the pig version? Since she got 8cc (at 150 lbs) that would be 800 mg. It seemed to knock it out pretty quickly. I had initially taken them to the vet because the baby had meconium in the amniotic bag, which in humans is a really big deal....but I broke the bag after delivery and immediately dried/suctioned her nose. :wink: I'm thrilled to not have seen any abnormal temps since the day after delivery, so must have caught it early. :leap: 
And she finally got her "woosh" as evidenced by the gunk stuck to her tail, but nothing heavy. :laugh:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

So glad she's doing better!

Just a little warning too...you will notice that the discharge will be almost gone then she'll suddenly have another "whoosh" at about 3-4 weeks past delivery.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so glad they are doing fine! You'll have to get some pics of Kachina playing outside!
I remember going to the farm where we bought our first two does, and the woman had about 7 other does with kids. Some were about a month old and the does were still having discharge.


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