# Ponderosa pines



## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi everyone, this is my first post. I am planning on getting some goats in the next month and I have been researching as much as possible. One thing that is troubling me are the various reports about ponderosa pine needles potentially being an abortifacient. I found one empirical study that seems to conclude that they do not have this effect on goats: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1459912 However, the general consensus seems to be that it is better not to let goats near them. Well, where I live, there are ponderosas all over the place. I could probably rake up the needles and use them as bedding! Does anyone else have ponderosas where they live? What should I do?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Welcome....glad to have you with us... :thumb: :wave: 

Wish I could answer the ponderosa pine needles question but.. I really don't know... I live in the valley..


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

no one seems to have any firsthand info. i don't really want to be the guinea pig.


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## sinthome (Apr 9, 2011)

ps- i live in the valley too! the willamette valley.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

don't know about that preticular type of pine. We have pine and the goats eat it no problem but from the images I can find it is not a ponderosa.


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

I know this is an old post, but was reading a question in the most recent Goat Journal magazine that implied you should never give ponderosa pine needles to goats. I had read several studies on ponderosa pine needles and abortions in cows, bison, sheep, and goats. 100% of cows & bison have trouble. No goats had abortions in several studies. Well, now after raising goats in a forest of entirely ponderosa pine for 10 years, I can say that we have never had an abortion or retained placenta and the pine needles are their favorite snack. So to answer definitively for anyone searching, you can house and breed goats in a ponderosa forest. I have had lamancha, Alpine/Saanen cross, and Nigerian Dwarf goats. Of course we make sure that they are well fed on hay since minimal grass grows under our trees.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Huzzah! I know goats love all the other types of pine and evergreens where we live. It's good to know that if we relocate out west, we're still safe!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree! Mine attack the young pines here and will eat low limbs of adult trees and I have never had a issue. At first I would freak because as you said it WILL make cattle abort.
Over the years I take most things directed towards cattle with a grain of salt when it comes to the goats. Acorns also makes cows sick if they eat too many. I actually just put one of my own into a dry lot because she ate too many, the goats pretty much live on acorns and leaves during the fall and I have never had one get sick


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes, that's the other thing I freaked on when first got my goats. They love the scrub oak leaves and seem to be able to handle all the tannins.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

purplemountain said:


> Yes, that's the other thing I freaked on when first got my goats. They love the scrub oak leaves and seem to be able to handle all the tannins.


I found out the hard way that they need to acclimate themselves to the tannins before gorging on delicious acorns.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dwarf Dad said:


> I found out the hard way that they need to acclimate themselves to the tannins before gorging on delicious acorns.


I believe this! Even though I say mine live off of acorns, they also only get the acorns that drop because they have totally cleared all the low limbs so they can't pick the young ones or totally gorge themself on the acorns. Instead they are slowly dropping and slowly more and more every day. I wouldn't doubt that if that was not the case or I only had maybe 1 or 2 goats that it wouldn't cause a issue.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

same here, Ponderosa pine and acorns, when I lived in the forest I would climb the Oak trees to get my prego and soon to be bred does more acorns for the same reason dear eat them, to boost fat and calorie intake AKA flushing them for breeding, and it would boost milk out put by a lot, boy it worked, as for the pine, I could NOT keep them out of the stuff, and it never effected them badly at all, oak leaves, they would not last a day.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

@Green Mountain Farm ..here is that post


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