# Looking for reg. dairy calf



## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

I have been showing cows for two years and am thinking about buying a dairy calf in the spring ready for show season.


If you have dairy calves for sale please give me a picture tell me the breed and price.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

goatygirl said:


> I have been showing cows for two years and am thinking about buying a dairy calf in the spring ready for show season.
> 
> If you have dairy calves for sale please give me a picture tell me the breed and price.


I highly recommend you attend a spring sale (breed specific) or fall sale. Specialty sales really produce a good crowd for good prices. Another good way is to contact local breeders, especially the "hot" families in your county for showing. Another tip is to pay attention to the prefixes of the cattle winning district and state shows if you're looking into something serious. Yet another option would be to purchase a grade heifer of breeding age and throw a good embryo into her if you have time to wait. Still another option would be to contact your state breeders association and get in touch with local breeders.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I just want to warn you.....pay the extra and go with a well known breeder. Many dairy cows can not conceive. Try and get a guarantee that they can breed.


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> I just want to warn you.....pay the extra and go with a well known breeder. Many dairy cows can not conceive. Try and get a guarantee that they can breed.


It's not so much a matter that they can't conceive as that the majority of the dairy industry uses AI, and even more are getting into synched breedings. Nothing wrong with either of those options, except that they both take skill and know-how, and aren't exactly skills you can master after you've gone to a 4 hour course at the extension office. Combine that with trying to get animals rebred within 45-60 days postpartum, and that you're trying to impregnate an animal who's ideally producing 100+ pounds of milk per day, and yeah, conception rates on the first breeding tend to plummet.

However, fertility is a heritable trait, and for economic reasons most dairymen are going to focus on that (a cow that doesn't get bred back right away is going to have a longer dry period and will ultimately end up in the cull pen). Most sire indexes will list fertility, longevity, etc., so if you have the pedigree on the heifer you can get a good idea how she might perform.

I would agree, go to a good breeder and check out production sales (but be aware that a good show heifer can easily hit the 5 figure mark), and get what ever guarantee you can. Make sure to avoid freemartins (the female half of a set of mixed gender twins) as they are much more likely to be sterile. Another place to start might be with the AI service in your area (ABS, Genex, Alta, and Select Sires are some of the big names)- they should have an idea of who's producing quality cows, and you're going to need to be acquainted with them anyways if you're planning to get your girl bred when the time comes.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

In the world of dairy cattle the cow will only get bred one time in her life. They are not like a goat and need to be rebred to still produce milk. We humans have over the years screwed with dairy cattle with hormones etc that a large amount of the females will not breed.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> In the world of dairy cattle the cow will only get bred one time in her life. They are not like a goat and need to be rebred to still produce milk. We humans have over the years screwed with dairy cattle with hormones etc that a large amount of the females will not breed.


what????????????? Wow, where did you get that information? cows have a 305 day lactation. and should calve every year.

Olivia, 
i can probably help you find a breeder if you tell me what breed you are looking for. i have many friends in the dairy industry. i was raised with Ayrshires and Holsteins in fact our neighbors have some of the best Holsteins in the state which just happems to be nh. I know of a fabulous Ayrshire that is for sale right now but she is in Va..
i will probably see you at Hopkinton, and i think that's a good place to start.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Well I'm not planning to get one this year but next year I will use the money from Decembers kid's to buy a cow In the spring hopfully. But I still need to know how much a good calf would cost. Any Ideas?


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

Let's talk at hopkinton because the cost is going to depend on the breed and the breeder, sometimes if the breeder's children have aged out of 4-h they will be willing to cut a deal on a nice calf. i would think you should plan on $500 at least, maybe less if they are willing to support 4-h. if you want a good quality holstein it will be more. there several breeders in vt that might be willing to sell you a calf. it's a good idea to get something lined up now for the spring. i'm sure we can find something you would like.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Ok I know you on goat spot but I'm not sure who you are. Whats your name and are you a parent or a kid (The Human kind)?


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

i am herd queens (erica) mother. we have rolling acres farm. and my name is faith. i am a 4-h leader in grafton county. i will be at hopkinton most of the fair.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Ok thanks see you there! My dad is dropping of the camper now!


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

For a quality calf you can usually mention to a breeder that you'd like to start off on your own, many people have a soft spot for first buyers. A good calf is anywhere from $300-1500 depending on pedigree, especially sire and cow family. This is a calf usually either still on milk or just recently weaned. An older heifer 6 months to a year will typically pull in $800-5000 depending again on pedigree. Breeding aged heifers (many show farms don't breed until 1 1/2-2 years) are $1750-15000 range depending. Cows are kind of the same situation, normally $2000-20000 in my area. 

An older calf you can see her start to develop, in particular leg angle, angularity, femininity, growth rate, depth. Legs are highly important in heifers. Make sure you find one with nice clean, strong, tall legs standing on a good set of feet. Normally when purchasing I offer to send a trimmer out to observe quality of the hoof as well. You don't want to buy a hemorrhaged, rotted, or warty footed heifer. Feet reflect back on feed quality, and environment but a heifer with problems early on usually has a short life span on the farm. 

Another important thing is to look up and study that pedigree. Figure out what exactly you want to breed for. Type, production, depth, legs, Cleanliness and angularity, protein, whatever. You will go in a direction of your choosing but if the heifer you're buying isn't what you want and it's just because "she's registered" (heard this too many times) all you're doing is setting yourself backwards. 

Another thing I'm going to emphasize is pushing protein into her. You're going to want to maximize growth and help her the best ways you can. Pick your protein, ask your local breeders what percentage they're feeding out. You may wish to make a mix or buy a mix and add toppings to it. Without protein you'll still have the quality pedigree and she'll still carry her full potential but she's not going to show it on her own. 

Factors to Consider:

Age
Appearance
Budget
Pedigree
Type, production, or genomic value
Breed
How "willing" your breeder is to help newbies
Vet and Trimmer results
Color pattern (important to some)
Breeding plan
Leg, pastern, and hoof angle
Width through the chest, and rear legs
Hard through her topline
Proper thurl placement
Johne's negative or vaccinated herd
Mastitis in the family line (chronic?)
Udder attachments in momma
Momma's calving age

Look around and develop relationships with breeders. Do some farm visits. Get an idea of what you're looking for and how high up you want to go. The more prepared you are, the further you'll be off in the beginning. Set yourself up correctly and keep the relationships with your breeders. It really makes a difference.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Ok thanks for the help I will look into some more farms.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

enchantedgoats said:


> what????????????? Wow, where did you get that information? cows have a 305 day lactation. and should calve every year.
> 
> Olivia,
> i can probably help you find a breeder if you tell me what breed you are looking for. i have many friends in the dairy industry. i was raised with Ayrshires and Holsteins in fact our neighbors have some of the best Holsteins in the state which just happems to be nh. I know of a fabulous Ayrshire that is for sale right now but she is in Va..
> i will probably see you at Hopkinton, and i think that's a good place to start.


This is getting way off your question and I'm sorry but am gonna reply again
I get my info from the real world commercial dairy world. And I'm talking big dairys that make the money. In that world a dairy will calf once after they have freshened then they are given a hormone called I believe galactopoiesis (spell check). Then the milk increases and no need to rebreed and she will live out her life just producing milk no need for a bull or ai and when it comes time for that animal who was most likely a embrio her match is created again. Yes a dairy cow should as mother nature meant to have happen reproduce to make more milk again but we have made a way around that.


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> This is getting way off your question and I'm sorry but am gonna reply again
> I get my info from the real world commercial dairy world. And I'm talking big dairys that make the money. In that world a dairy will calf once after they have freshened then they are given a hormone called I believe galactopoiesis (spell check). Then the milk increases and no need to rebreed and she will live out her life just producing milk no need for a bull or ai and when it comes time for that animal who was most likely a embrio her match is created again. Yes a dairy cow should as mother nature meant to have happen reproduce to make more milk again but we have made a way around that.


I believe you're referring to BSH/rBSH- it was sold under the trade name Posilac, and it's the drug that's responsible for those nifty little warnings that are on most dairy products now. It's also responsible for the largely uninformed and incorrect mass hysteria that broke about dairy products in the last decade (thanks PETA!). You are correct in that it can be used to increase milk production and length of lactation, but it cannot be used to keep a cow in milk indefinitely. They do actually need to be rebred on a regular (typically yearly) basis. Milk production typically follows a bell curve- BSH helps to keep an animal at the top of the bell curve (and thus peak milk production) for a longer period of time.

Posilac was a very useful product in that it would keep a cull cow in the herd longer. If you've got a cow that's not getting rebred, or that you know is on her last lactation it's very helpful to be able to keep her producing for a few more months, and it's also a few more months that she gets to stay out of the slaughterhouse. My main gripe with it was that some farmers were using it eliminate dry periods, which most likely lead to the rumor that cows only needed to be bred once. The other downside to the drug is that it leads to increased feed intake- a cow that's going to milk more is going to eat more, which just doesnt work out when you consider feed prices over the last several years.

For the most part Posilac is a product that's been pretty well phased out of the market. Most factory farms don't use it anymore because it's hard to find a processor that's taking rBSH treated milk. Monsanto sold it a few years ago (not sure what the current name is), and if Monsanto's willing to sell off one of their trademarked technologies then you know it's not a major player in production agriculture anymore.


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## SunnydaleBoers (Jul 28, 2012)

Jessica84 said:


> In the world of dairy cattle the cow will only get bred one time in her life. They are not like a goat and need to be rebred to still produce milk. We humans have over the years screwed with dairy cattle with hormones etc that a large amount of the females will not breed.


No that is not correct. Ideally the cow will get rebred many, many times in her life. A dairy cow that doesn't breed back is walking hamburger, plain and simple. There's millions of dollars in research funding, DNA indexing, etc., that are trying to figure out how to make cows more fertile. Getting cows rebred is the number 2 concern on most dairies (the first one is finding decent, reliable hired help!).


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Olivia-
For some reason, whichever farm you are referring to, I just don't believe that. Corporate farms cut corners and take the "easy" way out on many things. I don't see why they would pump all their cows with bST (bovine somatotropin) to keep their peak fluctuating. I just don't. In our area posilac is $5-8 a shot (one per cow every two weeks during her lactation). Add up the math. It adds up quick! I highly doubt corporate farms are using all their cows as recipients and implanting embryos all the time. Embryos are between $50 (super cheap)-$8,000 (higher end) normally. Take an average of $100 low end and implant 1000 cows, 60% of which will not take, and then again subtract those who aren't heifers (ET works great in heifers, cows lower conception rate). Corporate farms are looking for milk, the cheapest, most effective way to get it. Feed prices are insane.

In a nutshell, "most" corporate:
Milk cows till dry period, sometimes carry over (still develops lactation numbers every calving)
Breed to AI and have a full time AI on site
Have their own vet full time
Milk around the clock
Have time limits on cows in parlor
Cull cows for problem milkers, time, feet and legs, conception rate, etc
Start breeding as soon as the vet nods (1-2 month mark)
Keep lactation at or below 305 days
Set a limit on maximum times bred before cull (and will normally milk her until she drops in production)
Set a minimum production line (heifers 120#, cows 150# for example)

They look at things from a business perspective. Culling is easy for problem cows. All it does is slow things down. Efficiency, timely, productive.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Whoops! That wasn't to you Olivia.  I can't recall if I know the other young lady's name.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

thank you sunnydale


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

Wow from the real world of my chair in front of my computer this would seem to be over the head of most 4Hers. 

Olivia, I started my 4H life showing dairy cattle. Now I am a leader. The most important thing is HAVE FUN! Because if it becomes something you don't enjoy you wont continue. This is a little serious for someone looking for a cow. I did read that correct that was 1 animal not an entire herd? And this animal is a 4H project? Best place to start is at the fair at the dairy show. Also, just my opionion(sorry I know there seems to be a lot of them on your thread)I would get a bottle calf(they make the best showmanship animals). That will give you years with that animal as a project. Or get a bred heifer.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Yeah I'm thinking about asking my 4-H Leader if he knows any farms selling cows. I'll tell you more at hopkinton because this year has been really hard for me and to long to explane.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

We'll see you in a couple days!


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

See you then!


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

I take things very seriously and extremely in depth. I myself am 23 years old. Fresh out of 4H project/FFA/Jr Breeds. Dairy is my passion, my blood, my life. I know what I want and get it. I've been working since 12, been on my own since 17. 

Olivia-
Contact your local FSA (farm service agency). I forgot all about youth loans. They have all sorts f programs to make sure you get quality fresh off the bat. Especially being a young woman you'll be on the top of the receiving end as a minority. I was granted a $5000 loan when I was 19 (my first year I found out about this). You can receive one $5000 loan a year. It's a great way to get a jump start on a quality show herd. Really gets you in the game fast. 

You may want to check into a breeders association. They have MANY raffle calves up for youth to grab. Usually they interview you and have you write an essay. I had a chance to get embryos (3) or one calf when I won my essay contest. I chose embryos. Ended up 2 sticking, one bull one heifer.


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## J.O.Y. Farm (Jan 10, 2012)

Y'all have to tell me how you guys do! I have to work all day Saturday so can't make it like I planned  so I expect a full report and pictures  good luck guys! 
And tell your boys I said good luck Erica


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

I got an FSA loan too my last year in high school, but I got beef cows instead of dairy lol. Where I live beef is king and almost every pasture has a few cows in it. The FSA youth loans are really good, usually you get the loan and have 5 years to pay it off (they put me on a 4 year pay off because I was almost out of school), and you can have your payments set up how ever you want (I paid once a year when I sold my calves), and the interest rates are super low. I think my rate is like 1%. After the youth loan (or if you want to wait until you are out of school to get a loan) they have several loans for people starting a farm at their current place (Micro loans are up to $35,000) and they give loans for people wanting to buy land and start a farm on new land (up to $350,000). All with low interest rates and they give priority to minorities, such as women.

If you do chose to get a loan, you would want to look into getting some bred animals, cow/calves or something that will produce a product you can sell (like calves if you can't sell raw milk where you are at) so you can make payments on your loan.

I had a Jersey heifer one time, used her in petting zoos, bred her and milked her. She had 3 calves before we sold her. She was kind of a pain in the butt... too smart for her own good and me and my step dad were the only ones allowed to milk her lol anyone else and she would dance around, try to pee on them and otherwise be a pain. Plus I had enough goats to milk we didn't need the cow milk too. Jersey's have a higher butterfat than a Holstein (kind of like a Nubian) and are a little bit smaller cow when full grown, but (at least around here) they aren't worth as much. Most people have Holsteins, Brown Swiss, Ayrshire and Guernsey.


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

Forgot to add. If you get dairy cows I would look into having them on DHIR so your cows milk records are properly recorded. I know with goats most people put more weight on a doe (or buck) whose records (dams records) are recorded through the DHIR than a doe whose records were written by the owner. I would imagine cattle are the same and you would want to have your cows milk, butter fat and protein amounts tested for and recorded so when you go to sell calves people will have a better idea of what they are getting. If you have any dairies near you they should be able to help you get set up with the tester and get started on DHIR.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

In the US it's DHIA. Where are you located? Jerseys are second best in my area!


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## ptgoats45 (Nov 28, 2011)

lol I'm in the US. I've seen it typed both ways. ADGA refers to it as the DHIR, so maybe with goats they are in the "registry" instead of the "association" with cattle.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

ptgoats45 said:


> lol I'm in the US. I've seen it typed both ways. ADGA refers to it as the DHIR, so maybe with goats they are in the "registry" instead of the "association" with cattle.


Yup totally. Goats DHIR, cattle DHIA. People commonly switch them around.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

rgistered cattle use DHIR grade cattle use DHIA


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

enchantedgoats said:


> rgistered cattle use DHIR grade cattle use DHIA


Many DHIA test sites also feed back to DHIR as well, like ours for example. But you are totally correct.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

I could not find you at hopkinton enchantedgoats!


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

She left Friday and came back Monday. We were by Joy and Andrew.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Oh well you could of came and said hi to me.


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## HerdQueen (Oct 15, 2012)

I got there Friday night. I did say good morning to you and Kelsie on Saturday when you were eating breakfast.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Well then I did not know who you were!


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

i would suggest that you contact GMC farm in cornish their names are greg and marcia clark. they the best milking shorthorns in the country, they also have great guernseys holsteins, and brown swiisss. i looked for you at hopkinton but you were never there when i was ! anyway call greg and tell the that faith read sent you. 469-3560. they are also on facebook


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

What Is there farm name and do they have an email?


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

their farm name is GMC farm. if you bing gmc farm it will come up go to their facebook page


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

OK.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

OMG! There cows are amazing enchantedgoats!


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

I know!!! If you are lucky enough to get one of their shorthorns you will go far!! i know they are heading for Eastern States sometime this week then madison wisconson for world dairy expo. i know they are wicked busy until after that but you might catch them between shows. their children are all aged out of 4-H so they might sell you a good calf especially if you intend to show. i would stick with the colored breeds as there is less competition. colored breeds are anything but holstein, and what i like is that they have several breeds to chose from.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

For Shorthorn I recommend Innisfail, Old Mill, and Jo-Dee. 

For Jersey I recommend Arethusa, Meadow Ridge (know them personally), South Mountain, and Budjon.

For Guernsey I recommend Valley Gem, Lang Haven (know both personally), Four Winds, Misty Meadows. 

For Ayrshire I recommend Moy-Ayr, Palmyra, and Sweet-Pepper. 

For Brown Swiss I recommend Old Mill and Jo-Dee.

For Holstein I have a bigger list, but this is my main breed. I recommend Arethusa, Rosedale, Budjon, Scientific, and Greenlea.

Indianhead, Willows Edge, Randmar, and Siemers I know personally as well. 

Just depends on your price range. I can help you out. I know pedigrees and major cow families too.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

GMC shorthorns are mostly Innisfail bloodlines. they have had All Americans for several years running.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

mjs500doo said:


> For Shorthorn I recommend Innisfail, Old Mill, and Jo-Dee.
> 
> For Jersey I recommend Arethusa, Meadow Ridge (know them personally), South Mountain, and Budjon.
> 
> ...


Ok I'll look into them


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I recommend Innisfail as well, their cows go World Champion a lot. They were the first herd to have the heaviest milking shorthorns ever. They've been in the game longer than 1920. I personally know Stuart and Emily Rowe, they now live in Orland, California. But they have family in Wisconsin with their cows as well.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

I guess alot depends on how far you are looking to travel for a calf.


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Yes that is a little far.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

goatygirl said:


> Yes that is a little far.


Embryos
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You can get real nice embryos cheap to mid range price. Anywhere from $50-500. Hire an Inseminator, or vets do it too (more expensive) and have a heifer implanted with an embryo. You can buy sexed embryos as well. You can buy a couple beef heifers, or a couple dairy heifers and drop them in. Kinda depends on your situation. 

Sales (color, seasonal, holiday, sell outs, etc)
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Watch your breed association websites. Many breeders are youth friendly and carry discounts on their stock for 4H, FFA, Jr Breeds members. Featured sales always have stock in comfort zone for every pocket book. Pedigrees are important. Quality is important. Milk is important. Buy what YOU want-not just some fancy prefix. Check out local breeders too. Sometimes people have buried treasures and keep it hush hush. I just bought an 88 pt Atwood daughter from an overstocked tie stall for 2000. Deals are everywhere. Another thing too, if you buy an "off-age" heifer, they're always cheaper. Off age quality is an excellent way to expand as well.

Raffles
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Contact the breed association of your choice. Write an essay and get entered. Colored breeds have higher chance of winning the calf.

World Dairy Expo
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Might be far away (I'm personally counting down!!), but it's a great meeting ground for breeders of all sorts, farmers of all sorts, and youth of all sorts. They also have superb deals and offers like calves, feed, supplies, and cash! It's also great to stop in and see what daughters of who are winning in the ring. The WDE results greatly affect the market. Say a Goldwyn daughter took Supreme, Goldwyn would be higher demand. Not only semen, but calves, cows, and embryos as well. Swing by booths and get your name out there a little bit. Many people will try to help you out.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

olivia, i took the liberty of contacting GMC farm on your behalf, and explained to them that you were an older 4-Her with some experience (alot of breeders wont sell to very young members unless the parents have experience). they are fresh off 4 breed state champions milking shorthorns(of course) brown swiss, guernsey and holsteins. you know they might sell you some embryos if you have some cows to put them in. they did flushes this week so they probably have some for sale. they are in partnership with Innisfail on a couple of cows so maybe you could get some of that batch woohoo!! one is that really beautiful red one on their facebook page. i have followed her since they started showing her and she just get's better every year. I expect her to win at madison,because if she doesnt i dont know what could possibly be better than sheis. the problem with embryos is you dont know what you are going to get. however their bulls are probably very salable. 
i dont know how far Cornish is from you (less than 75 miles i'm sure. but it's alot closer than madison wisconsin( 1200 miles one way)!!anyway they kow about you now so good luck!!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I wish I was in Wisconsin on October 4th, Innisfail is having their Legends of the Fall Heifer Sale! They've got over 50 cows, heifers, and some bulls that they are auctioning. 
Emily and Stuart are going out of business, they're selling off their cows this year. I was so sad when they told me that


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

enchantedgoats said:


> olivia, i took the liberty of contacting GMC farm on your behalf, and explained to them that you were an older 4-Her with some experience (alot of breeders wont sell to very young members unless the parents have experience). they are fresh off 4 breed state champions milking shorthorns(of course) brown swiss, guernsey and holsteins. you know they might sell you some embryos if you have some cows to put them in. they did flushes this week so they probably have some for sale. they are in partnership with Innisfail on a couple of cows so maybe you could get some of that batch woohoo!! one is that really beautiful red one on their facebook page. i have followed her since they started showing her and she just get's better every year. I expect her to win at madison,because if she doesnt i dont know what could possibly be better than sheis. the problem with embryos is you dont know what you are going to get. however their bulls are probably very salable.
> i dont know how far Cornish is from you (less than 75 miles i'm sure. but it's alot closer than madison wisconsin( 1200 miles one way)!!anyway they kow about you now so good luck!!


 I dont really know much about that embryo stuff. maybe if you pm me and give me your e-mail (if you have one) and we can talk more.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

hi olivia,
It was good to talk to you the other day. I got a message from GMC they had grand, reserve grand, intermediate champion, premier exhibitor and premier breeder with their shorthorns at Eastern States. they will probably get some more innisfail while they are in wisconsin, so maybe he will have more stock to choose from. 
faith


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## goatygirl (Feb 16, 2013)

Oh thats good!


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