# Dealing with retained placenta



## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

So, first time mom kidded at least a week early dead twins. I went out to the barn in the morning they seemed like she just delivered them. Fully formed doelings but little 4lbs or so, temps were warm here. 

Mom was one that I had wormed with ivomec about 1 month ago and then repeated in 10 days. I had 2 girl when they came off pasture that need a little extra groceries and attention. 

Her cleaning hung for 24hrs, the vet gave me oxytocin, so she had 1cc every 6 hours yesterday a total of 3 rounds. I tied a knot in the part that was dragging, didn't pull. This morning they appeared to be gone, not a trace, maybe she ate it. 
But,,,,,I notice a cord looking piece just barley sticking out of her vagina. I did gloved up, that is a cord that goes in as deep as my fingers and is attached. So do you think it broke and there more in inside of her? 

My goat vet I was using left the practice, so the small animal vets there agreed to give me the oxytocin on Saturday. They will not do a house call. I do have a good recommendation for a new large animal vet and will be calling her this week. Just to make sure she work on small ruminants. Do you think I need someone to come out? 

Her bag was small and not filled with milk. As I was observing her I noticed a golf ball size lump in her thymus gland and now it an oblong shape. 

I started her on penicillin today. Any thing else I can do?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Retaining it is not ideal but won’t kill her or make it so she doesn’t have kids as long as you keep infection away. Even then I had one that retained it and got infected and after a round of antibiotics she kidded the next year. Last year I also had a doe that kidded and lost the kids and retained it. My brother suggested flushing her out using la200 and distilled water. I didn’t have la200 but did have uterine boluses so dissolved those In distilled water and then used a kid feeding tube and used the syringe as a funnel and flushed her. It didn’t come out but it didn’t get infected either and she is making a nice little udder. 
I think at this point the only thing a vet could do is give you some antibiotics which you are on top of anyways


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd flush her. Definitely do the antibiotics. You might want to be sure there are no more kids in there.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Also, have you tried BoSe?


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Also, have you tried BoSe?


I did give her some seldium paste. She must of been deficient in something for all this to happen. Do you think this a goiter on her neck?


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I'd flush her. Definitely do the antibiotics. You might want to be sure there are no more kids in there.


It didn't even cross my mind about another kid retained. I was surprised she had 2 but it's a possibility. When I felt around yesterday I only went in 2 fingers deep. Would she be dilated enough at this point to check?

To flush- use la200 injectable mixed with distilled water? How much?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

She probably is not dilated enough now. When I would flush I would use IV tubing, 500 ml sterile saline solution and Betadine so I don't know amounts of the others.


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## Madgoat (Jan 8, 2017)

I must be extremely lucky. The first time Bella gave birth, her placenta hung around for days. I just tied it up when it reached the ground and let nature take it's course. 
Her second birth (triplets) again, I just sprayed Betadine on the vagina area and tried to tie the placenta up so she wouldn't step on it. No issues. When all three does gave birth this year, they all retained said placenta from several hours to a few days, again no issue. 
One thing a old goat owner told me that I would like to verify with you guys, is, NEVER CUT the placenta, the weight of it is what pulls it out and cutting it can allow it to retract back into the birthing canal.... Is that true?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. Never cut it. Unfortunately sometimes it breaks.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

smalldreamer said:


> I did give her some seldium paste. She must of been deficient in something for all this to happen. Do you think this a goiter on her neck?


Get some BoSe to give her if you can. Retained placenta is closely related to selenium deficiency. Neck goiters mean iodine deficiency in older goats. You can give free choice kelp meal and/or a cobalt block to help with that.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Selenium deficiency definitely for retained placenta's.

Iodine deficiency as well. 

Glad she got the paste. Be sure you give a vit E gel tab, snip the top and squirt it into her mouth. 

I agree with what has been said. 

Do the goats have loose salt and minerals free choice with copper, selenium, iodine?


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

I switched loose minerals this summer. From a onyx beef mineral to a fleet farm brand. I'm hoping this is not the cause.
I had a second doe kid this morning, one healthy kid and one that's a little slow. She has still not cleaned out. Ugh! (I gave her oxytocin tonight) I purchased 4 does last spring and 2 of these are the ones I'm having problems with. The other 2 have not kidded yet, I did give them some selenium paste tonight.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

Give the weak kid some selenium if you haven't already


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Give the weak kid some selenium if you haven't already


I'm thinking I'm gonna give all my moms some selenium paste tonight. I have 15 left to kid, the 2 left I purchased from the other farm got it last night. Just in case it was the mineral switch, I've never had this issue in the past. 
Not the way I wanted to start the season! Thanks for the help


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is too bad, not a good thing. I am sorry you are having issues. They definitely need selenium.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

This is the mineral I'm using. What do you think?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not a bad one one. Better than some I see out there.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You will still need to supplement additional copper and selenium.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

Well after several attempts I found a goat vet she thinks the selenium paste is fine to use in this area, BOSE is not necessary. Hoping these 2 that delivered early are just mineral or feed deficiencies. If this happens again she will come out and take a placenta and fetal sample to test. She's more concerned about infection going on in the herd, let's hope the remaining 15 go good. This weekend and next week should be the start. We went over feed and mineral that I'm feeding. Thanks again for the support, it's like having a good goat neighbor!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope all will be OK, sounds like you a have good vet there.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

Well update.... another set of early twins. Same thing as the other two, dead or premature babies, no milk and retained cleanings. I bought 4 does 1yr old from another farm and 3 out of the 4 now. The vet sent in one fetus and cleanings to the lab for testing. I'm waiting for results and praying the 4th holds on she's due anytime after next weekend. 
This vet recommended not flushing or manually removing placenta, he feels it causes more infection and could injure the doe. The cleaning did break off and I'm sure there is some still in her. He said her body should absorb it and if she acts off or a infection presents then treat with antibiotics. 
I've had 14 other babies so far, all full term, all moms have been with me for a few years.


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## Davon (Sep 22, 2017)

Lutalyse dilates, right? Do you all give Lutalyse for retained placenta? I would think it could help your goats that are having difficulty passing their placenta smalldreamer, but I would like to hear what more experienced members have found.


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

My vet gave lute to my doe when she had retained placenta. And also two 1 time shots of antibiotic 

I'd give her tons of garlic and vitamin c to prevent infection.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

I gave oxytocin at that time. This new vet did recommend lutalyse....if this happens again. If all the testing(they are running a full panel) comes back ok, then we will start looking into minerals etc.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Selenium deficiency, give Bo-se shot SQ and a vit e gel tab, snip the top and squirt 1 or 2 tabs into her mouth.

I use oxytocin while she is open. Up to 6 hours I notice they begin to close more and takes a bit working your hand in there. At 6 hours or sooner from the last kid born, I will go out and if she is holding onto her afterbirth still, I can still get i n there and will find her uterus and insert afterbirth bolus sit helps keep infection away or down and helps dissolve it. I also give oxytocin shot, vit E, Bo-se shot.

If I suspect retained anything, I will start antibiotics PenG SQ. But I have been known to wait and watch for bad smell back there, depending on how long she holds the afterbirth.

Add a small weight to the after birth by gently putting the afterbirth into a rubber glove and a small weight to it, not too heavy. You do not want it to rip.

Or gently tie the afterbirth in knots to make it shorter. Especially if you cannot put all of it in a rubber glove, that alone will create more weight.
Never tear/cut it off, unless it is really heavy and over baring, you can cut off just so it is off the ground and she cannot step on it. I have had some really heavy ones. If it isn't that heavy but long, tie in knots. Afterbirth needs a little weight to it to get it out of there.

Never try to remove it unless you know how to remove it properly with each button that is attached to the uterine wall.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

Alright... I've had a long problem filled kidding season. Trying to figure out some changes to make with nutrition. 
I had 17 breed:
4 early term yearlings with premature babies (2weeks) and retained placentas
- one fetus and placenta tested- normal no findings
-2 of the moms I did worm for barber pole 1 month before kidding and their body condition was not the best.
4 yearling confirmed not pregnant
-vet ulrasound negative
-buck in with them for 4 months
-yearlings body condition good
-one good body condition was treated for deer worm, caught early never down...respond well
9 doe and 1 yearling kidded to term
-8 healthy kiddings
-2 with slight milk fever, treated with calcium, responded well, supplemented babies....great now
-1 doe (issues in another thread "Toxemia") I think deer worm, good body condition... treated too late.

A lot of things going on, I've been raising goats for about 5 years and this tops the cake.
-vet is going to research more and get back to me on the fetal testing, if he thinks we should treat anyways for a STD type problem ( I did bring 4 of these yearlings into my herd this year) all others were born here or I have had for several years. Besides Buck- I bought as a kid and is 3 years.
-I'm going to test my hay for nutrition content- feed small squares no mold
-did switch mineral this summer, going to looking something else.
-my area for selenium is under .2 I do use selenium paste( didn't give before kidding) but need to look into Bo se
-16% goat pellet with corn feed 1 month before kidding
-cdt and pneumonia vaccines 1 month before kidding
-plan on adding copper boules 2x Year

Any suggestions? Not sure if this is nutritional or STD or both!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds like selenium is definitely at least one of your problems. Do you copper bolus? I bet copper is another.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree.

I am so sorry you are having issues.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am so very, very sorry you are dealing with this. I hope and pray you can find the answers you are looking for. Sounds like everyone thinks you have a selenium issue, so that is a good start. Do you use the selenium e gel for goats? I know you mentioned selenium gel, just wasn't sure which one.
I wonder if the highly recommended Replamin Plus would be a good option? I've not used it yet, but I've been planning on getting some.
I haven't read the Toxemia thread yet to get an update on your doe, I know last you said she was not better and one leg paralyzed. If for some reason she has to be put down, I highly recommend having a necropsy done, make sure you ask for them to check for what caused her issue, but also have them check for management issues - such as vitamins/minerals, especially selenium and copper deficiency. Hopefully she has made it or will make it, but just wanted to throw that out there just in case.

Having your hay tested would be a great thing to do. Do you know what kind of hay you are feeding? Any idea if cats have been around the hay? I've heard that cat or some animal urine/feces can cause issues. 

I honestly thought when you posted this that you had an STD, something like Chlamydia as that can cause all sorts of issues from what I've read. I wonder if you could still treat as if it were Chlamydia as a precaution? 

Again, so very sorry, this is very heartbreaking, and I know your probably going crazy with frustration. We're going into our 8th year with goats, small herd, but last year was probably the worst kidding season for us. We're expecting babies starting in a few weeks and I am starting to feel the anxiety and anxiousness of worry. I'm hoping the changes we've made will be the right difference...


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm going to start copper bolus, it's ordered. Yes the selenium/vitamin E paste. 
Our hay is a mixture, orchard grass, rye grass, clover, alfalfa and timothy. We have some with mostly alfalfa also, I use for nursing moms and cold weather. We small square and put it up our selves. 
We took a bunch of core samples from my bales today and I guess it's pretty resonable $ to test. My dad is a retired dairy farmer...he said that's were he would start. 
We have one cat in the barn he does sleep with the babies. 
I took a bunch of fecal samples today, feeling like I need to put the crack down on things.


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## smalldreamer (Aug 5, 2013)

My fecal testing came back. Could anyone suggest what to treat with? The barberpole are all over 500 brownie, Barbie, Betty and the Buck were all treated in august, begging of November and late December(plus the 10 day follow up) for barberpole with ivermectin injectable- orally 1cc per 40lbs and valbazan in December. I might be dealing with some resistance? 
Any thought on the other worms noted?
Thanks for all the help and support!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I haven't dealt with Barberpole that I know of, but want to say I've read Ivermectin is not very effective. I've heard people say they use Cydectin Pour On (given orally) for it. Not sure what other dewormers are effective. Hopefully someone can chime in with experience with this one!


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## Suzanne_Tyler (Jul 19, 2014)

I agree with giving cydectin.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I do agree.


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