# ABGA/Selling out?



## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

Ok I think I'm outta the loop on this. I cant seem to find the exact reason for alot of ppl selling their herds? I know it has something to do with ABGA an how something may have happened an ppl disagree with the way the Assocation dealt with it? Im just guessing here. Ive just seen tid bits here an there about it. Some of the top breeders who have been breeding the Boer goat for years an some since the Boer was brought to the US. Is it just a disagreement or is it something that all members should be concerned with? Im not looking for gossip or to get rumors spread Ive become concerned since seeing some of the breeders Ive seen selling out. I would think that some of them have a good reason for it? Maybe just a bunch of them decided to sell out this year for other reasons that are unrelated but it seems unlikly to me b/c of some of the chatter that Ive heard. ???? Anyone know what the heck is going on?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it's just 'luck' (or bad luck) going on. The only thing that I know of that's different with ABGA is that they are going to start making members DNA test their bucks and every buck before they can be registered.....but usbga excepts abga papers so why wouldn't they just change over instead of selling off the herd. That's probably what I'm going to do since I find the DNA testing crap. It's $30 a test and I have 3 bucks. No $100 doesn't seem like a lot but it is for people like me who hardly get over market price for their kids....and I enjoy selling at that price because it helps kids start out. I haven't decided if I'm changing over yet or not but I will for sure only sell buck kids with usbga papers. But I talked to a lady who knew that they were wanting to start DNA testing for the last 2 years and she said rumor has it that depending on how bucks only goes they might want all goats tested. That for sure I can NOT afford. 
I know there is dishonest people but I don't think everyone should suffer from it. If they think someone is not honest then make them do it and if they fail kick them out. I also don't see how they are going to make sure every animal is who they say they are unless everything is DNA tested so I think the rumor I heard will go threw within a few years 
And that's the gossip and my opinion on this side lol 


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

Usually the folks that are selling out are older and just at that point in life where they want to simplify things a little. They usually tell anybody that will ask what their reasons are. EGGS for example, those folks are, or where, judges and very active in ABGA, so it seems unlikely they were selling out because they were mad at the ABGA. There were a lot of goats at Nationals.


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

I figured the EGGS an Powell/Holman was retirement but then I see Jack Mauldin is selling out an the way his website is worded it had to do with the ABGA? Maybe it is one of those years...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I don't know anything about the "boer world," however, hay prices are sky high this year and the goat market is just flooded right now...too many breeders, not enough buyers from what i've seen. I've noticed lots of breeders having a hard time selling this year. Perhaps this has something to do with some of the herd sellouts going on.


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

It just seemed odd to me an the fact that some have mentioned ABGA but not pointing out what happened. Anyway just thought maybe I missed something. Hay in my area isnt too hard to get. I sold the hay off my place for 25 a bale I think they where 5x5. I should get another cutting. But some of these breeders are in Tx so could be a different story on the hay. Not a big deal was just wondering.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah if they are Texas....or California things are not well in the ag world. People any more seem to take out a loan for everything so maybe that's adding to the stress of making ends meet. I know this week at the sale they already have 60 family's for the sale. I sold a lot of does this year and am replacing them with doelings with the idea that they will eat less and pray we get rain this winter and I don't even have it as bad as others. I thing the whole abga is just a fluke that you are seeing


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Big Breeders Retiring, this has been going on for a while now, here and there but, it seems to be quite a few lately, I have noticed that.

Very bad droughts going on around.

Feed has skyrocketed. Some due to drought.
For example: California has to either pay $600 per acre foot to irrigate or go without water. The bad thing is, mostly all farmers cannot afford that price to do so. 
So many of them are losing crops, going dry, especially the ones that have district water, those who have their own wells are still up and running, however, prices for their hay or feed has gone way up, as they are taking advantage of the drought conditions and the demand. 
Some hay has to be ordered from out of state increasing prices as well. So many breeders now are forced to sell out their herds cheaper than what they are worth, because they cannot feed them. I see FB boers going for under $300 base price, being registered, that is sad. breeders are desperate now, so they are taking a major loss or having to meat out their goats.

ABGA DNA testing fee, is a pain for a lot of breeders. I like it but I don't, it is the cost that is unreasonable.
AQHA APHA horses have done DNA for a very long time, but I think if I remember right are cheaper.
We are getting fed up with those who are cheating and putting papers on a percentage boer and making it FB boer ect.
Not sure if they are going to DNA the does but, I know for sure the bucks that are being registered next year, will have to be DNA tested. I don't think it is for the bucks we have now. 


When many of the top breeders sell out, it does have a lot of impact on other smaller breeders. They have so many interested breeders, that they travel a lot of miles to go to those sales. Some take advantage of lower prices on some, even with flaws, to breeders who are willing to pay that higher price, wanting certain name (Genetics) and will take partnership with another breeder, just to have that top goat. 

It does hurt us when they do this, but they are just wanting out, bad timing when they all want to get out of it at the same time. 
But I don't think they have the intention to hurt us on purpose


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree Pam In a way I TOTALLY think it's great that they will end up booting the liars out over this but yeah I have to say the cost is it for me. If it was like $5 let say I wouldn't bat a eye that hair would already be on it's way to the lab.
But you might when you have time check into what you said about the bucks we already have. Because....not word for word but it said that all abga bucks must be DNA tested or you can not register their offspring. All bucks being registered must be DNA tested before they are registered. I'll see if I can find that magazine but I think I threw it away.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, please check that out for me. I would like to know.


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Pam, I believe I read the same thing as Jessica. If we want to register kids next year, their sires have to be DNA tested first.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I already have plans to call them and ask about a few things so if I actually remember to call I'll ask about that. If Pam is right then I'm fussing over nothing because I'll be ok with that. Then when I sell a buckling have the buyer pay for the DNA testing since a lot of my bucks never get registered anyways. 


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

Im pretty sure that if you want to register kids from a buck he must have DNA on file. I have seen more an more chatter about cheating an some behavior that is unethical. Our family has decided to just show at the local fairs with our daughters an leave the ABGA shows to the bigger breeders who know how to play to game better than me. I know most goat breeders are great an honest most of them being on TGS (not bias here) but you always have a few bad apples.


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

DMSMBoers said:


> Im pretty sure that if you want to register kids from a buck he must have DNA on file..


They are even going to have the wether bucks with no papers have to submit DNA to register kids with the new reciprocal rule. That's kinda strange when you think about it. The sire side of the pedigree will say unknown, but they will theoretically know the DNA.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

So if you want to register your kids after the end of this year daddy must have a DNA test done or no papers on babies. 
I still don't see how this will keep people honest to tell you the truth. Now I'm a honest person but even I can see ways around this to lie about kids. 
I send my samples is and everything is a go but I can still lie and say my 50% kid is 100% and as long as it's not a buck no one would ever know.

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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

This statement below, makes me think if you register any kids "after" December of this year DNA is required.
That is why I think it isn't the Sire's now? But if someone calls ABGA and asks, we all would appreciate it to know absolutely sure of this.

"DNA will be required on the Sire of any kids who are registered "after" December 2014"


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unless you are DNA'ing everyone, I don't see the point in doing this.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree Karen and still people puppy shady crap. They had a doe that was 'papered' at the sale. I asked to see the papers to make sure it wasn't a app and it said on description that it was a red doe...the actual animal was traditional. Unhonest people ruin everything for honest people  very sad.
I'm still going to call Monday but I'm fairly sure that if you want to register any future kids next year the sure must be DNA tested. So no the don't HAVE to be tested but if you want his kids to have papers then they must. Then say my buck gizmo had a son named George I would still need DNA on gizmo then again on George. But I will make sure that's 100% right 


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## DMSMBoers (Dec 23, 2013)

I think its just a matter of time before they require you to test the does.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It is confusing and they are not really saying to much on what it all entails, it isn't fair to keep us guessing on it. 

You are right, it doesn't make sense if the sire isn't DNA tested, but the wording makes it quite confusing as if he does not have to be at this point. :wallbang:


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

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President's Letter - May 2014
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*President's Letter - May 2014*

By abga_anita | Published May 20, 2014 
To our Members:
We're over a third of the way into 2014 and we've already initiated several projects. The voluntary DNA Testing Program was implemented on April 15. In the first three weeks, 162 requests for voluntary DNA testing on bucks were processed through the ABGA website, in addition to several requests that the ABGA office received via regular mail. There is an article in the May/June issue of the Boer Goat magazine explaining the program and how to participate. While voluntary this year, DNA testing will be required on the sire of any kids who are registered after December 31, 2014.

This is a copy/ paste from the ABGA website. So I take it that means we have to DNA test all the sires in order to register kids next year...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

So... you know how they changed it so that a kid from a Fullblood dam could be registered at 50%?

So what if you bred a fullblood doe to a Nubian buck and wanted to register the kid at 50% - the Nubian buck would have to be DNA tested?

Really interesting! I'm trying to get more in to registered stock and there are so many different ways to do it and a lot to consider!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

You are correct. If you don't DNA test then none of their offspring can be registered......well with abga. 
I myself am going to hold off and try and sell kids threw USBGA (DNA does not need to be done with them) and see how that goes. If I don't have a issue with selling kids that way I'm no longer a abga member 


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

It seems to me like USBGA is a lot more popular on the West coast than the East coast! Although as I was saying in another thread, with my goal of a "high quality commercial herd" I get quite a few buyers who just want to have registration papers for the sake of having papers without knowing a good deal about the breed or understanding the different levels of registration. For those buyers I think I could register with USBGA instead of ABGA and it wouldn't make any difference to them.


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