# Large lump in udder??



## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi Everyone. Well, my 4 y/o nubian doe has a large lump in one of her udders. This happened overnight. It is in the top of her udder, the size of an elongated orange, not sensitive (I can massage it), her temp is 102.4, poop is normal, appetite is normal, gets free choice minerals, dried kelp and cobalt block, eats second cut as well as some chaffhaye with some grain twice daily and just generally seems fine. Her normal milking is once a day in the morning. This is her 3rd kidding and have never had a problem in the past. Could this be mastitis? I've started massaging her with peppermint oil, putting on a warm compress for about 10 minutes or as long as she will allow and milking her twice a day now instead of once a day. Should I do anything else? I've heard that Bovi Sera is may be a good thing to give her?...I have that. Also, my sanitation practices have been good, teat wash before milking and dipping afterwards as well as clean hands. Barn and barnyard are kept clean too. Thank you for your suggestions!


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh, and her kids have been gone for almost a month now.


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## Goat_Scout (Mar 23, 2017)

When my Nubian doe had lumps in one side of her udder/teat last year, I gave her Mastoblast (from Jeffers or Amazon, dosages are on the bottle) 2x a day, and within a couple days they were much smaller, and by the end of a week the lumps were practically gone. We've used it effectively on our milk cows as well.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Goat_Scout said:


> When my Nubian doe had lumps in one side of her udder/teat last year, I gave her Mastoblast (from Jeffers or Amazon, dosages are on the bottle) 2x a day, and within a couple days they were much smaller, and by the end of a week the lumps were practically gone. We've used it effectively on our milk cows as well.


Thank you!! I really appreciate your help! I'll get some on order today!


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok, I tried the Mastoblast and it seemed to work - her milk was not stringy or clotty. But the lumps up high in her udder close to her body never went away. I stopped the Mastoblast after the 10 days (twice daily) and within a few days her milk started to clot again. So, I did another 10 days of Mastoblast. Well, I'm at the end of that 10 days and it made her milk better but the lumps were still there. A couple days ago I noticed that her udder was warmer to the touch and her milk was thicker (didn't strain very fast at all). So I stopped the Mastoblast at day 9 and started giving her Bovi Sera (10ccs daily SQ) and it seems to be helping. BUT those darn hard lumps up high are still there. What else can I do? I want to dry her up so should I use Tomorrow? Or should I use Penicillin? Oh, and her temp has remained the same 102.4 all along. She acts fine and eats great. She gets free choice loose minerals, dried kelp, cobalt block, chaffhaye with some grain and second cutting hay - All daily. Thank you so much for any help!  OH! And I am very clean when milking her. Everything is sterile, I dip her teat in udder wash before milking, my hands are clean during milking, then dip her teat in udder wash after milking and finally dip her in Chlorhexadine (sp) when done.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh, and I did a test last night. The lower right test is the teat with the lumps. There is a tinge of green around the edges of the bottom right circle which indicates very minimal mastitis. 
The upper left test is the normal udder. Weird!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Wow, you are really working hard to take care of her. This must be frustrating.

I only have 3 things to add, that I would do (in addition to what you are doing). 

Actually, the first thing is what I would NOT do. I wouldn't dry her up with mastitis if I have any choice. I would add vitamin C and minced or blended garlic, 3 cloves, to the feed on her milk stand when I milk her. Both of them are excellent for mammary tissue (and of course for infections!). Good luck with whatever you choose to do.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.
I would not dry her up, until she is cured.

Getting it cultured may of been the best thing, but now, you have treated her and it may not read correctly at this point.

She needs a different type of mastitis treatment. Trying today or penG may or may not work, depending on the type of the bacteria involved.
I would get a vet involved at this point.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you both for your advice. I will not dry her up then. I'll see about getting a Vet involved but that isn't looking to good either. I've tried locally to get a culture done but none of the Northern Michigan Vets that I called will do it....or they want to biopsy her udder! It's such a shame how the Vets don't take goats more seriously in our area.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

rgdlljames said:


> It's such a shame how the Vets don't take goats more seriously in our area.


And truly bizarre, considering the money involved in goats. You'd think they'd want a piece of that pie...

I had a friend who had a goat with a virulent case of mastitis like you wouldn't believe. Nothing worked. The only thing that made a dent was pushing garlic and vitamin C twice per day and milking twice per day. Yes, the vet was involved, and so were antibiotics. Even an experimental antibiotic treatment after the lab results came back. Her experience is why I brought it up.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

I know, right?!! Goats are getting pretty big up here and it's so frustrating to not have any good vets for them! Ughh! It forces people like me to learn just enough to be dangerous! LOL 
Anyway, I do have an appointment later this week with a vet that is an hour away to bring some of her milk for culturing so we'll see. Fingers crossed! In the meantime I think I will try the garlic/vitamin C and hope for the best! Thank you for your input too!  You all are priceless!!!


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Wow, you are really working hard to take care of her. This must be frustrating.
> 
> I only have 3 things to add, that I would do (in addition to what you are doing).
> 
> Actually, the first thing is what I would NOT do. I wouldn't dry her up with mastitis if I have any choice. I would add vitamin C and minced or blended garlic, 3 cloves, to the feed on her milk stand when I milk her. Both of them are excellent for mammary tissue (and of course for infections!). Good luck with whatever you choose to do.


I'm going to try the Vit C and Garlic. Can you tell me how much Vit C and what form?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Funny, she actually got it from me, because I had a bunch. I got it here http://www.goatworld.com/store/index.shtml it is close to the bottom of the page. She mixed 1 tablespoon of the powdered vitamin C with 2 tablespoons blended fresh garlic, and mixed that with the grain on the milkstand. At first the goat (very large Alpine) wanted nothing to do with it so she put it (the garlic/C mixture) in a drenching syringe and forced it. In a few days, the goat gave in and started eating it in the grain, so my friend stopped the drenching.

ANOTHER friend had used vitamin C and garlic for mastitis, and told me, so when this really tough case came up I told her, sort of a last ditch effort sort of thing. And now you know all I know.

Except she used such a large dose of C that her goat got a case of scours. She didn't care, just pushed through and the scours cleared up as the goat adjusted. But this goat was super sick and my friend was scared that a super bug was going to be let loose in her herd.

And NOW you know all I know.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you! We're going to give it a try!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good luck, keep us updated.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok, we took Meka's milk to the vet yesterday. This morning he said it is in fact mastitis (which I knew) and is sending it out to be cultured. I'll let you know what he says and how to treat it as soon as I know. On an off note, have you ever tried to find sterile sample cups? That's what I needed to use for her milk samples. My thought was "No problem!" Any decent pharmacy should sell them, right?? Well, I went to 2 different pharmacy's thinking they should have some but NOOOOOO! As a last resort I went to our local Urgent Care, walked up to the nurses station and asked if they would sell me a couple after explaining my situation. They told me that wouldn't sell me any but did give me 2 thank goodness! Whewwww! I was starting to freak out a bit and maybe that's why they gave them to me! LOL I probably looked and sounded like a crazy person and they just wanted me out of there! LOL The things we do for our beloved animals! Anyway, I'll keep you all posted.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'd never thought about it, frankly, but you are right, I've never seen them. How odd.

My vets always just supply me with what I need, so I can do what they tell me to do. So there is probably plenty I just don't think about not seeing.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, please let us know what the results are.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

The Vet gave me bad news today. He said it is the bad bacteria (Gram negative). The options are 1. cull her 2. infuse Tomorrow and wait and see or 3. run another deeper test on her milk to pinpoint exactly what the bacteria is. We have opted to have the more in depth test run. In the meantime I am going to douse her with garlic and vitamin C. We have a BUNCH of EmergenC packets. Do you think that would work? No Vitamin C powder locally. I did buy vitamin C chewable tablets to use in it's place. I am beyond sad and frustrated.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, Hugs.

I have read of people using chewable C tablets. I can't do more than guess at the dosage, but C isn't easily toxic, so I say go for it.

If you have the tablets, I wouldn't do the emergenC because of extra ingredients.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Oh, Hugs.
> 
> I have read of people using chewable C tablets. I can't do more than guess at the dosage, but C isn't easily toxic, so I say go for it.
> 
> If you have the tablets, I wouldn't do the emergenC because of extra ingredients.


Thank you! I will definitely be using the tablets then. The extra ingredients in the emergenC were a worry for me too. I don't understand how this could happen. I keep my herds area very clean and am very clean when and where I milk. Everything is sterile. She does love to lay on the ground so maybe that is where she got it from? And if so, I'm scared to death about the rest of my herd! So many questions?!!!!!!! UGHHHH!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

rgdlljames said:


> I'm scared to death about the rest of my herd!


So was my friend, but nothing happened to them. Strong immune systems can do amazing things. Just work on one thing at a time and it'll be OK.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

mariarose said:


> So was my friend, but nothing happened to them. Strong immune systems can do amazing things. Just work on one thing at a time and it'll be OK.


Thank you so much! :happygoat:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

We can be as clean as ever, yet they can still pickup things from the ground when laying down.
I am sorry it is bad. 
Hopefully you will get an answer soon, be able to treat her and make her well again.

Some goats love chewable vit C while others may hate it.
You can crush them up, if a goat won't eat them willingly.
Anywhere from 2000mg to 3000mg daily, be aware, if they get too much, they may get scours. 
You can split up the dosages throughout the day. 
If you give 2000mg daily, give 2- 500mg chewables in the morning and 2 in the evening.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> be aware, if they get too much, they may get scours.


My friend's doe DID scour, but adjusted. My friend chose to plow ahead rather than restrict the C.

@toth boer goats is completely correct.
This absolutely can happen. But remember, @rgdlljames this is not a pathological scouring but a mechanical one. Vitamin C scouring can cause things like dehydration, and so is a concern. But it isn't like an E. Coli scouring which indicates a pathological origin.

Also remember, that the garlic is just as, if not more, important to the healing process.

It's a 1-2 punch, and I may have done you a severe disservice by ignoring one of the punches.

If so, I am very, very sorry.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, it's been 4 days on the vitamin C and Garlic. I have been giving her 2000 mg Vit C and 2 large table spoons mashed up garlic (ran an entire bag of garlic thru the Nutribullet) and mix it in her grain morning and night. So she has been getting 4000 mg Vit C and 4 large tablespoons garlic daily. She is such a trooper and has been eating it all up! Milking her twice daily as well and using chlorhexadine (sp) as a before and final rinse on her each time. Last night and today especially she has scours. So, after reading your post @toth boer goats, should I cut back on the Vit C? I am planning on getting some electrolytes to mix with some warm molasses water to give her. What do you think? She is acting great, eating great, no fever but the lumps are in her other udder now too. That started end of last week.  I did run a new sample of her milk to the Vet yesterday morning for a more in-depth testing of the bacteria. Keeping my fingers crossed that there will be an answer/cure for her. I don't care if I never breed her again, I just want her healed up! She will be our pet if that's the case.  Anyway, thank you all for your help! @mariarose you have helped me so much! Thank you!! I'll let you know what the results are as soon as I get them.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

You know, I've been thinking about this, and now you say she has the lumps in the other half of her udder, despite all you've done for, and to, her...

To me this sounds like a deeper, systemic problem that has reared it's ugly head in her udder.

Has she ever been tested for the big 3 in goat diseases, CL, Johnes, and CAE?

Forgive me if you've said, I don't recall and I'm doing this while milking (so not a lot of time).


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

She was tested about 2 years ago when I first got her and I have a closed herd (everyone is negative) so I would'nt think that would be the issue. But I do know that anything is possible. I guess we'll see.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

OK, just a thought...


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Oh, this sounds scary. I hope it is starting to resolve. There are teat dips with sealants that form a slight film to help prevent getting bacteria from the ground. I have thought about getting some but we have never had mastitis. It sounds like you did everything possible for clean milking. Praying she recovers.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If she is scouring then yes, cut back a bit on the C.

I hope the test results show something so you can get answers soon.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you all! I truly appreciate all your encouraging words and wisdom! 
I did forget to mention that I have been giving her 10cc's sub-q injections daily of Bovi Sera in hopes that it will help along with the garlic and Vit C. Now all I can do is pray and wait.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Praying with you.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

toth boer goats said:


> Praying with you.


Thank you so much!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

You bet.

Keep us updated.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Do we know anything yet?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

"Patience, Maria. Patience!"


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

mariarose said:


> Do we know anything yet?


Nothing yet. I'm hoping that today or tomorrow I'll know. The Vet said it would take a week or so. She isn't any different either. Like nothing is wrong, just a lumpy udder. So weird! But she is starting to not like her garlic and Vit C filled grain. I'm having to do different things to get her to eat it. She is a walking garlic ball! LOL Poor girl! As soon as I hear I will let you know.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the update.

Hope she gets better.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, it's the worst news possible. She has 2 of the worst bacteria in her udders. Each is resistant to any antibiotics MSU tried on the cultures. I don't remember the name of the bacteria but will let you know as soon as I find that out. We have to cull her. There is nothing that can be done and if she stays on the farm she has to be separated because my other does can possibly catch these bacteria. Even if I dry her up with the bacteria in her she would more then likely go setpic (sp). I am heartbroken. We have an appointment tomorrow morning at 8:30 to have her put down.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Hugs Tight Hugs. You've made the right decision for her. I'm so sorry.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry.


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Oh no, so sorry.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

So sorry for you and her. There is nothing anyone can do or say to make you feel better, but know we are all thinking of you and share your pain.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you everyone. This is so difficult!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I'm so sorry! I was following this thread to see the results, and am so sad to hear that it is something that appears to be incurable.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

She went peacefully this morning. Such a hard thing to see such a "full of life" goat being put down. Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)




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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So sad.


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

Well, here is what my Vet said. I'm sharing it in hopes it may help someone else. I know/do most of his recommendations but have not used a post milking teat dip that seals. I will be doing that from now on!! 

"The bacteria that grew on the culture of Meka's left udder half were; Serratia marcescens and Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Both are known to be highly resistant to antibiotic therapy, as was the case with Meka's culture. These most likely ascended from the environment through the teat. This is the most common pathway for all types of mastitis, oral exposure is not a common portal for mastitis. Most pathogens cannot survive travelling through the rumen. 

It would be a good idea to decontaminate all of your equipment and the milking area with a dilute bleach solution remember that the surfaces must be thoroughly cleaned before disinfection. You should be able to easily find information on cleaning and disinfecting milking equipment online.

Prevention is the same for any mastitis - being careful to follow good milking practices: washing the udder, washing your hands well to prevent cross contamination (latex gloves for milking are even better) ,stripping a small amount from each half before milking, waiting a few minutes to allow milk let-down, careful attention to milk completely without creating inflammation, cleaning the teats and using a post-milking teat dip to seal the open teat after milking and preventing bacteria and debris from ascending.

Proper nutrition and management of physical and mental stressors is also important to keep the immune system functioning properly allowing her to fight these pathogens off. In the event that an infection does occur (and it will eventually), quick and aggressive intervention is best - early culture and sensitivity to identify the type of bacteria and determine the best treatment.

Remember even if you are only milking one goat, your procedures should be exactly the same as a large dairy milking 1,000 cows. Also, always handle your milk like you would any raw protein in the kitchen (think raw chicken or fish). I hope this helps."


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thank you for the info.


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks for getting back. That is also the one step I have been thinking of adding. Teat spray like Fight bac or dips like dilute iodine don't have the emollients or sealants that commercial dips have. I definitely don't want my goats running around with blue teats like I've seen in commercial. Does anyone here know of a commercial dip that is not colored? 

I also wonder about treating the pens and bedding areas. I know bleach doesn't work on dirty surfaces. What about Oxine or Chlorhexidine spray over even dirt surfaces? Would sprinkling something like DE or PDZ help? Just thinking out loud some things I'm going to look into. So sorry you had to go through this. Hopefully it will help us all do the best we can to manage our girls.


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

Here's a link to using Oxine. You can use it in a hose applicator like is used for lawn fertilizer or in a pump up sprayer from the garden center. It's what I would use on areas they like to lounge.

https://www.revivalanimal.com/pet-health/how-to-use-oxine-ah/learning-center


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## rgdlljames (Sep 8, 2011)

purplemountain said:


> Here's a link to using Oxine. You can use it in a hose applicator like is used for lawn fertilizer or in a pump up sprayer from the garden center. It's what I would use on areas they like to lounge.
> 
> https://www.revivalanimal.com/pet-health/how-to-use-oxine-ah/learning-center


Thank you! I will look into this for sure!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Fight Bac only temporarily turns the teats blue. I have used it for years, milking from 50-100 does 2x a day. I have had 3 cases of mastitis and those were from does that I left buck kids on. I have never had a case of mastitis while using Fight Bac. (I spray the teats 1st with an iodine teat spray, wipe that off, milk then spray Fight Bac.) So, you don't have goats running around with brilliant blue teats!


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## purplemountain (Jun 2, 2014)

That's right, Fight bac doesn't stain, but it's not a sealing type of dip. Sealing dips will usually have glycerin or other humectants and I'm not sure what other ingredients, but probably an emulsifying wax and oils. They are often a bright green, blue, or orange coating so that commercial dairies can easily see that teats were dipped and are designed to stay on longer than just a spray. I would be interested in a clear coating dip. Think almost like a thin chapstick or lotion consistency that temporarily coats the orifices with sanitizer until it has time to close. Needs to stay on for at least 30 minutes.


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