# New milk goat - struggling to increase supply



## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

*(Please pardon this if it seems a bit disjointed from a post addressing this forum - I had posted it on FB and got him help :GAAH: )
*
I was wondering if you or anyone out there can offer me some advice? I have a fresh, new mama goat I rescued from a bad home experience. She had twins about 2 1/2 weeks ago (12/16/2013). Both died from exposure (before I got her). I had to wait a few days before I could go get the mama (which the owner *gave* to me at that point). The owner said the babies never did nurse ofter or well (from what she witnessed with poor goat experience). I brought this Nubian/Nigerian cross home and tried to milk her. I am not an experienced milk goat owner, but I've been researching for a year now. The first milking - which was about 4 days after her last baby's death, I got about a cup of milk. I did it just to relieve pressure on her udders and to get the milk flowing again. The next day, I got about a 1/2 cup. Since then, two days later - all I can manage to get is about 2 tablespoons. I've got the knack for the milking technique, albeit slow and awkward... but she is a patient and tolerant lady goat for not having been handled this way for nearly a half year in the old owner's hands. 
The big question - Can I salvage her milk supply and bring it up to a useable level? How long should I expect this process to take? 
For reference: her new diet with us, she gets: black sunflower seeds - 2 tbsp, mixed bird seed (millet, etc) - 2-3 tbsp, alfalfa horse pellets - 1 1/2 cup 2x day, plus free Bermuda hay, a pink salt block, and baking soda. My goaties (all Pygmys), also get veggie/fruit treats here and there, too. Amazingly, she is of good spirits, has healthy (but gross) discharge from birthing, poos are normal, eyes bright, her step is light and eager. She eats and drinks well, no wheezing or any other noticeable maladies.

*Addendum #1:*

I've been trying to milk her three times a day, but she gets at least two since I'm the only one that can do it at this point. I just milk off into a container and let the dogs have the two tablespoons I get each round I've upped her fresh veggie rations with what I can. We're a below-poverty home and she's going to play a crucial role in the health of our diets (especially with my recent rash flare-ups - just being gluten-free isn't restoring my balance anymore!) - IF I can get her to produce. I'm going to ask my in-laws for a bale of alfalfa for my x-mas gift

*Addendum #2*

Oh... wanted to add... although I am an inexperienced milker... as a past nurser of my own human "kids", I can tell when her udder is tapped. I can stimulate her by "bumping" to make a few more measly squirts when I get her to the two tbsp point, but she "tells" me when she's done. Her body language lets me know she's given me all she has - I'm kind of a goat whisperer . 
Even though we've only had her for less than a week, she is quite taken with us. She even gets comfortable enough when I'm milking to chew cud and stand without being tethered. Sometimes she turns back and licks me while I'm milking. I take that as a good sign :whatgoat:


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

The feed amount seems a little low to me. We have Nubians, which range from 160-200 pounds, and our milkers get 3 quarts of feed a day. They also get free choice alfalfa hay, but I would think as long as they are getting a good amount of alfalfa pellets then that should be good. I would milk her twice a day and massage her udder and bump around on her for a couple of minutes to cause her to up her production. If it is really cold there that may be playing a part in a decrease in milk. I have noticed when we get a cold snap my goats will back off on production for a day or so. You should also be giving her loose minerals, you can buy a small bag at Tractor Supply for a few dollars and it will last a while. I just put it in my goats feed and they eat it right up.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

If she's only been milked a handful of times since you've had her she's probably drying/dried up. Feed, health, genetics, age all play a part in that. I like feeding alfalfa pellet for taste (makes milk sweeter) but it's not going to bring her back into production.

Are you ok keeping her around for another year as a pet? Was she to be your family milker? Based on her history of losing kids I would watch her very closely at her next kidding. Best of luck with your new goat. Hope she works well for you in the long run.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

She still has discharge from kidding 2 1/2 weeks aho?


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

thomcarol said:


> The feed amount seems a little low to me. We have Nubians, which range from 160-200 pounds, and our milkers get 3 quarts of feed a day. They also get free choice alfalfa hay, but I would think as long as they are getting a good amount of alfalfa pellets then that should be good. I would milk her twice a day and massage her udder and bump around on her for a couple of minutes to cause her to up her production. If it is really cold there that may be playing a part in a decrease in milk. I have noticed when we get a cold snap my goats will back off on production for a day or so. You should also be giving her loose minerals, you can buy a small bag at Tractor Supply for a few dollars and it will last a while. I just put it in my goats feed and they eat it right up.


Thank you for starting me off, Thomcarol! 
I would say she's a dwarf because she's only a hand or so (horse measurements :-D) taller than her new Pygmy herdmates. And, I can pick her up...mostly. She's quite leggy for just grabbing up!

I have watched a ton of videos and have been doing research for at least a year on dairy goats, so the bumping/massaging is part of my routine but I did just add in the teat-squeegee move - to clear the teat when finished. I purchased some Manna Pro goat loose mineral from the brand spanking new Tractor supply store they *just* built in our small town. In Arizona. I think it was 65 today :rainbow:

I bought some Mo'Milk herbs from

```
https://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/mollysherbals.php
```
 to add to her regimen. When I get paid later this month, I'll also add in herbal de-wormer from the same site. I've also taken up sprouting grains to boost her (as well as everyone else's) nutritional intake (rather than add in COB or other simple grain).

If I can do it on a super-tight budget - I'll try it!


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

kccjer said:


> She still has discharge from kidding 2 1/2 weeks aho?


Her discharge has cleared up from the original post I made back in December. It's been gone for about a week.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Hobbyfarmer said:


> If she's only been milked a handful of times since you've had her she's probably drying/dried up. Feed, health, genetics, age all play a part in that. I like feeding alfalfa pellet for taste (makes milk sweeter) but it's not going to bring her back into production.
> 
> Are you ok keeping her around for another year as a pet? Was she to be your family milker? Based on her history of losing kids I would watch her very closely at her next kidding. Best of luck with your new goat. Hope she works well for you in the long run.


Since the 16th of December- the day I brought her home - I've milked her at least twice a day. Still only getting a tablespoon or two, but I still keep up with it because I really need a milk goat and my herd is at maximum capacity for my budget. Besides, her output is a perfect serving for my Rat Terriers!

According to online research, her teeth show that she's about two, maybe three years old. My best assumption for her losing her kids was very poor animal husbandry with the previous owner. The young woman was about as unknowledgable as one would never wish to see a pregnant mama live with. She had no clue the poor doe was even expecting. What irks me is HOW such a woman came into such a lovely goat to began with :/


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

crownofjules said:


> Her discharge has cleared up from the original post I made back in December. It's been gone for about a week.


Ok...


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## paula2138 (Feb 4, 2013)

This may not be the problem but your post reminded me of how we came to get our wether. Our elderly neighbor had around 15 goats and he barely fed them at all- giving them all a pan of grain a few times a week with no hay/just what they got in the bare field. When his one doe had twins, they were born with wimpy kid. One died two weeks later and the one that lived (our Bosco) needed splints on his legs, a broken jaw taped for a month and for us to squeeze the milk into him for a month. The mother was so malnourished that she couldn't even provide enough milk for one baby. I gave up milking her after a few days because she was only giving a few ounces at a time. I don't know if that's what has happened with your doe but the situation really sounds the same. I would say she won't give you any milk until you get her in good health and then re-breed her. I'm guessing those kids died from malnutrition and probably had wimpy kid as well. It's a long host of health problems with wimpy kids. We went through every issue known with ours.


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## Hobbyfarmer (Sep 7, 2011)

paula2138 said:


> I would say she won't give you any milk until you get her in good health and then re-breed her. I'm guessing those kids died from malnutrition and probably had wimpy kid as well.


I agree 100%. What a sad situation.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

Yep. Me too...


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

I agree that the best situation would be get her healthy and rebreed, but since you said you really need to get some milk for your health conditions I would at least try to get her healthier while trying to milk her. Try adding something like calf manna in to put some weight on her and make sure she has free choice alfalfa hay or pellets. I've heard the Mo Milk stuff is supposed to be good. I used to have herbal wormers and we did fine on them, but I have recently switched to human grade diatomaceous earth to get rid of parasites. It's cheaper and it doesn't have much of a taste so you can sneak it easier. 

My first experience at milking wasn't great either. I thought her baby was nursing one side down everyday so I would milk the other side. It turns out that he wasn't nursing it, we were both getting milk from the same side. By the time I figured it out I could get maybe 2 drops out of it. I kept at it everyday and she gradually increased back to normal. If you choose to keep at it I hope you have the same success.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

good on you for rescuing an animal in need.

I personally think she needs to eat more. my doe, who's about 90-ish pounds, gets close to 1 lb of oats daily 1/2 cup BOSS and 1/2 cup of peas, so a total of 1 lb of feed per feeding. in evenings, she gets 1/2 lb of alfalfa pellets. 

Try upping her grains, slowly, and you should start seeing a difference. also more alfalfa pellets. if she's under conditioned from her previous owner (i.e. skinny) then she'll need more to get her body back up to where it should be and make milk. 

if that's not possible, would you be able to find more browse for her to eat? maybe see if you can get a tree trimming service to drop off (or you can pick them up) fresh branches with leaves? (trying to think of cost effective ways for you to feed your goats). just make sure what they bring are not poisonous...

I have a feeling once you up her feed, she'll start making more.

best of luck, and keep us updated!

do you have free choice minerals out for them as well?

you should start seeing an increase in milk when you up the feed (remember, bodies need food stuffs to make milk...i'm sure you had to eat more when you were nursing your babies).


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Thank you for the insight! I am really thankful I've stumbled onto this site - so much knowledge and goat-wuvs! I'm doing all I can to bring her to health - she such a charming lady! and I'm going to try to keep with the milking, I'll give her another several weeks. In the meanwhile, I'll try to find her a buck, and start her off fresh. 
I know you're right with your assumption... Leelu's poor, poor wimpy kids... breaks my heart :'( The first days we had her at our home, she just searched and wimpered for her missing kids...


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> good on you for rescuing an animal in need.


It's an illness of mine, I think :sigh: I have a huge heart - bigger than my budget sometimes, for creatures in need. Half of my goaties are "rescues".



> I personally think she needs to eat more. my doe, who's about 90-ish pounds, gets close to 1 lb of oats daily 1/2 cup BOSS and 1/2 cup of peas, so a total of 1 lb of feed per feeding. in evenings, she gets 1/2 lb of alfalfa pellets.


 That sounds like a good ration; I am upping her feed each day by a bit, plus what she gets on the stand twice a day.



> Try upping her grains, slowly, and you should start seeing a difference. also more alfalfa pellets. if she's under conditioned from her previous owner (i.e. skinny) then she'll need more to get her body back up to where it should be and make milk.


 I, with my underexperienced dairy goat eye, don't see her as too underweight (I have a recent picture of her in my gallery), but she gets the best treats (and most treats) in her "milk tray", too. Quality in = quality out :wink:



> if that's not possible, would you be able to find more browse for her to eat? maybe see if you can get a tree trimming service to drop off (or you can pick them up) fresh branches with leaves? (trying to think of cost effective ways for you to feed your goats). just make sure what they bring are not poisonous...


This is an amazing, inspired idea! I've run out of spare branches around my house... time to outsource! Inspired!:wahoo:



> do you have free choice minerals out for them as well?


Yes. They all have access to a pink salt block, as well as getting a serving of Manna Pro goat minerals at dinnertime. I am doling it out on a dosage basis to watch for individual performance or continued weakness. I have one pygmy doe I think may have taken with a breeding mid-December, plus newly-learned "fishtail" signs in a few of my pygmys, too. Everyone also gets BOSS and unsweetened coconut shreds.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

just looked through your gallery, and your goats look so healthy! we live near a gully with lots of foliage, so when it's rainy and our goaties can't go outside, I go for a small hike and pick out branches. keep up with the great work!


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Try giving her a feed with higher protein, 18% or so. Or, you can get calf Manna or Sunshine pellets and top dress her grain with that.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

First off, she probably needs to be wormed if the previous owners did not do that after she kidded out. Secondly she does need more groceries. My kinder doe roughly 75lbs just gave birth to triplets on Friday. I give her a cup of allstock sweet feed, 2 cups of Nobel goat dairy parlor, and 2 cups of brewery grain twice a day. She gets free choice alfalfa pellets, (which she is hoofing her nose up at right now) as well as good grass hay, minerals, and lots of various treats. I personally would wait to breed her again to milk her, but she will need a lot more groceries if you are wanting the production to go up.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Here's a terrible picture of Leelu. She's not a big goat, she's not fat, but I can see how she might need more feed. I've slowly been upping her pellets to 2 cups a feeding, plus at least a 1/2 cup on the stand 2x day. I've also added in soaked grains, too. She's not in love with bermuda on the stand, she acts like she's bored with it. Today she was quite the little rebel as I milked her for the morning... wiggle, squirm, unhooked the head latch twice!, deliberately knocked over her grass bucket three times (see? bored.).


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

how's the milk? any more coming?


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

In the morning I got my usual two tablespoons, but last night, I only managed a couple TEAspoons. That plus lots of massages and warm compresses. I'm struggling against a losing battle :tear:. 
The good news is a dear homesteader friend has an Alpine buck left from his dairy herd! I have easy freshening available - and I know they care for their goats so I wouldn't have to worry about leaving her over there to ..ya know :wink:


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

crownofjules said:


> She's not in love with bermuda on the stand, she acts like she's bored with it. Today she was quite the little rebel as I milked her for the morning... wiggle, squirm, unhooked the head latch twice!, deliberately knocked over her grass bucket three times (see? bored.).


I don't feed hay on the stand. They will stand much better if they are eating grain on the stand. :grin: Mine get all they want to eat while on the stand...makes getting them up there easy too since that's the only place they get grain! Open the gate and they RUN to the milking stand!


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

If you plan on rebreeding her you'll need to wait a few months to let her recover from the last pregnancy. This past year we bought a doe that freshened at the end of December and got accidentally rebred a month later (not by us). In June she had 2 malformed goats and one so huge that we had to pull it for over an hour to get it come out (before I get jumped on-yes, we called the vet and he was on another call and he advised us to keep trying to pull. He got there to do a c section right as we pulled the baby out.) It was awful to watch, traumatizing, I would say. So, be careful about breeding too soon.

Sorry to hear that she is decreasing in milk, that's a bummer. But, it's good to hear that your friend has a buck for you to use.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Alpine buck is likely too big for your gal. if she's Nubian/Nigerian mix, then she's small. ideally you want the dad to be the smaller breed. the alpine buck may produce kids larger than she can pass, which....is not ideal.


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## busymomx3 (Dec 31, 2013)

Sorry her milk didn't increase for you. I hope she is able to breed and kid this year for you. I learned a lot just reading this thread.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> Alpine buck is likely too big for your gal. if she's Nubian/Nigerian mix, then she's small. ideally you want the dad to be the smaller breed. the alpine buck may produce kids larger than she can pass, which....is not ideal.


I was lying in bed last night, not sleeping, but designing goat pens and pondering my herd's grocery needs... I realized the Alpine might, indeed, be too big a buck for her.

I'd rather get a pygmy buck a stepstool!

Finding a perfect match for her in my small town might prove to be too large a challenge, but pygmy bucks are easy to find.



> If you plan on rebreeding her you'll need to wait a few months to let her recover from the last pregnancy.


 ThomCarol - you're also spot on to my pre-sleep brainwaves. I got so caught up with getting her in milk, I forgot the FACT she needs time between births - even if there is no longer evidence she even had kids :blue:

I started her on the Mo'Milk last night...smells like potato salad herbs - kinda yummy! She licked it right out of my hand so I'm going to add her dose each morning with her soaked grains, loose minerals, and extra pellets.

:dance: I'm on a roll! This morning I got well over two tablespoons! And she was much better behaved. I'm only giving her snack bin *after* I clean her belly and she stands still. Now, to teach the mischievous turkey when the bin is empty, she is NOT to knock it over for fun. Tsk!Tsk! :laugh:


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

crownofjules said:


> In the morning I got my usual two tablespoons, but last night, I only managed a couple TEAspoons. That plus lots of massages and warm compresses. I'm struggling against a losing battle :tear:.


I realized what I'd done wrong this day... I milk her before i go to work and then just after the sun sets... this day I milked her at 11am, then at 5pm. Not nearly enough time for her to "stock up". The next morning I got a few teaspoons more than usual.


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## Cactus_Acres (Sep 24, 2013)

Even if she was in perfect shape weight wise - the additional grain you give her is to make the milk. It may feel like you are feeding her into fatness, but it may be that you just need to feed her more to give her more resources from which to make milk.


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree...I have had locals tell me they think 12 cups a day of my 2 to 1 mix of alfalfa and sweet was wayyyy too much. But let me tell you, my doe looks good and maintains a healthy weight on that amount so I don't care what they say. I know my doe.


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## thomcarol (Feb 3, 2012)

People around here also think that 3/4 of a gallon is way too much feed for my goats that get milked. But, all of them are in very good condition and none are overweight. If you see that your girl is putting on too much weight then back off the feed a little until you find the right amount for her.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

You said it was 4 days before you picked her up - and that when you did pick her up you only got a cup. Since you have had kids yourself you should know that 4 days with no nursing or pumping you would be engorged. And then your body would quickly adjust and stop making milk altogether. Since she wasn't even engorged I think there is more involved then just her drying off. Which she is drying off and chances of getting more then what you are getting is minimal. Do you know if this was her first kidding?


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

StaceyRosado said:


> You said it was 4 days before you picked her up - and that when you did pick her up you only got a cup. Since you have had kids yourself you should know that 4 days with no nursing or pumping you would be engorged. And then your body would quickly adjust and stop making milk altogether. Since she wasn't even engorged I think there is more involved then just her drying off. Which she is drying off and chances of getting more then what you are getting is minimal. Do you know if this was her first kidding?


Yes, engorgement was the reason I milked her right away. I expressed some milk right there at the ladies house to ease some of the goat's pressure. Her udder was smallish when I got her - maybe twice the size of a grapefruit. The lady had said the kids were hardly nursing at all when they were alive anyway. I assumed that meant her supply was dwindling from the get-go, hence the smallish udder.

From her age, 2-3 years, and the way she can be handled in the stand - plus all the first-hand experience I've read in here and on the 'Net - my assumption is that she had been purchased/bred as a milker but didn't pass their supply expectations. They culled her from their herd and gave her away (dumped!) to the previous owner and may NOT have known she had been accidentally bred when they did. I would HOPE someone would not dump a preggo goat ALONE onto a completely inexperienced person  I cannot imagine such a heartless dairy goat keeper exists! She is too gentle a goatsoul to have been mishandled in her youth.

I collected THREE tablespoons this morning  And she's starting to get the routine on the stand. I have taken ALL of everyone's amazing advice to heart for later application or put into actual practice. I adore all of you goatpeoples!! :grouphug:

The words I think I needed to hear best were - "you'll seem like you're feeding her into fatness". That just struck the chord :wink: I started a quadruple batch of soaked seeds this morning.

I'm only a few days into the milk herbs. It says to give her 1-2 tablespoons a day, so I have started her off with the least dose (since she is a diminutive breed) and will try that for a week.

I am so stoked! And if it just doesn't work out... I'll be bummed - but at least I'll know I gave it the best go I could with the freshest advice on the internet!


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

thomcarol said:


> People around here also think that 3/4 of a gallon is way too much feed for my goats that get milked. But, all of them are in very good condition and none are overweight. If you see that your girl is putting on too much weight then back off the feed a little until you find the right amount for her.


:thankU:Thank you! That is wise advice!


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Slowly increase her to the full amount of food so her body can adjust to processing it

You're doing amazing. Keep up the great work!!!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

Let me know if you see improvement with the Mo'Milk. I have a rescue that I'm trying to get to increase production; right now I'm just giving raspberry leaves but might order something if it has proven results.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Let me know if you see improvement with the Mo'Milk. I have a rescue that I'm trying to get to increase production; right now I'm just giving raspberry leaves but might order something if it has proven results.


What do you personally see with the raspberry leaves? I want to start my doe, which I believe is preggo, on some pregnancy herbs with these leaves.

As for the Mo'Milk - This experience shall prove a great challenge to the herbs and should yield interesting results! I say - two weeks to begin solid evaluations, then 4 weeks to call the decision.

:thumb:


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

As of right now, not much. I did get a little more the other day but since she's still nursing full time I'm not sure how much difference I'll notice. But they're cheap and it can't hurt, right? I'm planning to start giving it to my other preggos too.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> As of right now, not much. I did get a little more the other day but since she's still nursing full time I'm not sure how much difference I'll notice. But they're cheap and it can't hurt, right? I'm planning to start giving it to my other preggos too.


That is so cool! I'd like to follow your findings, as well  In southeast AZ - all berry 'anythings' are pricey. We grow nopalitos out here. LOL! And mesquite. And Dirt. Oh! And weeds.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

You can order the dried leaves online. I found them in store for about the same price.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Iven given fennel, dill and fenugreek (ingredients in mo'milk) to my doe, and I found it worked for her. Red raspberry leaves r also good to help strengthen uterus for easy birth. I can't remember off the top of my head why else its good...


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Ok - today was the A.M. for the second week on the herbal formula, Mo'Milk. Although I have no idea what a full-production udder feels like, I am noticing a definite quality improvement in the shape and structure of her mammary glands. They are fuller, plumper, and her udder is less saggy. It still doesn't look anything like the glorious udders captured in these forums. 
From the start of the treatment, I have doubled her output! However, this is just under a 1/4 cup of milk. 
The first week I gave her 1 tablespoon of herbs each morning.
The start of the second week, I gave her 1 1/3 tablespoons of herb. 
Each milking, I give her about 3 cups of soaked grain (seeds), a few alfalfa pellets (maybe 1/2 cup), plus a big pinch of coconut shreds, 1/2 cup BOSS, a few peanut shells (or 3-4 whole peanuts), her minerals for the day (a.m. only). She also gets unsweetened applesauce and a half banana to eat her herbs with because she keeps sneezing away her dose! LOL!
She is also MUCH more behaved on the stand. She pops right up there and places her noggin between the uprights. We have a bellywash ritual, then she stands for the first few squirts before she gets her treats. I talk to her through each step so it all becomes familiar so my assistants will have to guide her less. 

I never realized what a calming and bonding time it is while milking. I really do enjoy my time with her.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would up her alfalfa pellets. Your protein may not be high enough. Great that her milk is increasing.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> I would up her alfalfa pellets. Your protein may not be high enough. Great that her milk is increasing.


Her breakfast & dinner includes a cup or so of pellets, plus she has dried Bermuda grass to munch during the day :wink:


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

My kinder doe gets 2 cups alfalfa pellets morning and night with her meals, and 1 cup for a "snack" in the afternoon since I milk her then, and she has triplets to feed too;-) I agree you should up the alfalfa...


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I made up a mix of raspberry leaves, dill, nettle leaves, fennel, and fenugreek. Not using it yet since I don't have any milking but I will post results when I do. Think I spent under $10 and I have about 1/2 gallon worth.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

when i used my mix, it was only dill and fenugreek then (it's hard to get stuff here), my doe went from giving me a little more than 1/2 cup per milking (she was sick and not eating), to 2 cups per milking after a few days. since your doe was on the verge of drying out, you'll have to work a little be more to get her milk going. but, sounds like whatever you're doing, it's working! upping the alfalfa pellets will help (the extra calcium and protein).

and yes! i think they love the bonding time and attention. this is my first doe in milk, and right now i've dropped back down to 1 a day milking b/c i'm drying her out, but in the evenings, i'll feed her and put her to bed, and she just yells at me b/c i'm not there milking. it's so cute!


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> when i used my mix, it was only dill and fenugreek then (it's hard to get stuff here), my doe went from giving me a little more than 1/2 cup per milking (she was sick and not eating), to 2 cups per milking after a few days. since your doe was on the verge of drying out, you'll have to work a little be more to get her milk going. but, sounds like whatever you're doing, it's working! upping the alfalfa pellets will help (the extra calcium and protein).


nchen - what amazing results! How much were you dosing her daily with your herbal mix?



Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I made up a mix of raspberry leaves, dill, nettle leaves, fennel, and fenugreek. Not using it yet since I don't have any milking but I will post results when I do. Think I spent under $10 and I have about 1/2 gallon worth.


Nettle - ahhhh! Interesting. I hadn't thought of that :think: I am looking into making my own mix... good stuff to know! Man, I gotta find a good source for powdered herbs - it would cost me waaay over $10 to acquire all of those :shock: Any starting places to recommend, Wild Hearts?



janeen128 said:


> My kinder doe gets 2 cups alfalfa pellets morning and night with her meals, and 1 cup for a "snack" in the afternoon since I milk her then, and she has triplets to feed too;-) I agree you should up the alfalfa...


Janeen - I've just about run out of bermuda grass and there aren't any farmers with any until late spring, so I'm going to have to buy alfalfa bales for long-strand free-nibbles, too. Might that fulfill her extra needs?

:stars:
Thank you everyone for sticking with me and supporting me through my tiring questions and thank you SO, SO much for repeating, over and over the the same stuff (No, Really! Honest!). Reinforcement is encouraging, not repetitive. I feel so confident and inspired to stay the course. Her coat is so glossy and smooth with the extra nutrition she receives ;-)

Since my Leelu is so very picky about her water, should I offer some very light molasses water once a day to make sure she is drinking enough? :yum: 
I never see evidence of her consuming the water in her night pen - she bolts and guzzles the water outside every morning (once I've cleaned and refreshed it with warm water, that is).


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

i was putting about 1 tbsp with her food. when i was milking twice a day, i was getting a quart a day. she had gotten sick and was off feed for a few days which is why her production was so low. i tried milking her lots a few days, but it didn't really come back until i gave her the herbs. 

have you liked in the spice aisle at Wal-Mart, or a store similar to that? or any bulk food stores. they sometimes have cheap herbs there. you should be able to find nettle and red raspberry leaves in the tea aisle (make sure there's nothing else mixed in with the teas).

lastly (i'm so long winded....), my goats are super picky with their water. they've snarfed at their water recently b/c we bought a new hose, and they don't like the rain water. they just refuse to drink, but they get a lot of liquids from the greenery they eat, so i'm not too worried (i check for dehydration all the time, and no one is dehydrated).


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I got mine at Fred Meyer, which has a great bulk selection in the natural foods. Nettle and raspberry leaves are both available during the summer in my area, so if this works I can put some up myself this year. I only have a couple ounces of each ingredient which is why it was so cheap - not sure how long that amount will last.

I did have one milker a few years ago that I got after she was already starting to dry off; with raspberry leaves and twice daily milking I brought her up from a few squirts to a cup or so per milking. Not exactly high production but I had another in milk, so it was more to get her trained than anything.


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> I did have one milker a few years ago that I got after she was already starting to dry off; with raspberry leaves and twice daily milking I brought her up from a few squirts to a cup or so per milking. Not exactly high production but I had another in milk, so it was more to get her trained than anything.


That would suit me just fine! A cup or so is all I'm hoping to achieve. I'd be so grateful for more, but the reality of Leelu's situation is I drop my hopes a wee bit. I can manage just fine with that :lol: I've come across a few places online where the herbs are very affordable (plus shipping).


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

In her case I can't say how much was the raspberry vs. just being milked - I think the only way to prove the herbs is if you've been milking for a while and only see an increase after adding the herbs. Certainly doesn't hurt though; in that case I had the leaves sitting around anyway.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

update on your quest to increase milk??


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

nchen7 said:


> update on your quest to increase milk??


We're still plugging along with only around a 1/4 cup. I've finally got the money to order some herbal dewormer from LOH, and I still have a few weeks of Mo'Milk (what a good supply for the price!), so I'm going to stay the course.

I've been giving her garlic cloves once a day to help get the worms uncomfortable before we kick 'em out for good!

She's been really antsy on the stand - kicking like naughty girl through every step :hair: Yesterday I left the milking to my 13-y-o and Leelu kicked & spilled the milk bowl - first time. Poor DD was sooo irritated with her! If I don't give her some feed for every little thing I do now - she kicks. She kicks during the belly wash. She kicks a LOT during the teat-clear squirts. And will NOT allow me to milk in rhythm if she's not eating. If I have a discussion with her about her behavior... she eyeballs the snack tote then licks her lips at me. Such body language!


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

I'd suggest you forfeit your milk for a day or two in favor of breaking the habit. Let her kick and knock the pail over as much as she wants, and just keep at it until she lets up. Mine always get grain on the stand but so help them if they decide to kick because they ran out! The one who wouldn't stop made a quick trip to the sales barn.


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## ciwheeles (Apr 5, 2013)

Would maybe making a hobble work? 

I have a doe who is AWFUL on the stand unless she has food. Which is a problem once they finish eating. She kicks and jumps. So last year I took a pair of tights, cut them in strips and used them to restrain her back legs. I just put eye hooks on the side of my milk stand to secure the tights to and tied her up. 

She got upset the first time we tried it, but eventually settled down once she realized we had her number. I never was able to get her to stand without them but I was at least able to get the milk without getting kicked. 


Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Well, that's good you're getting more! The Mo'Milk has herbs in there that help deworm as well. 

Just know DO NOT let Leelu win! You're the boss and you say when you're done milking, not her. I don't have a milk stand, I milk just outside. My girl needs a wall or fence to keep her stationary when she eats, and she stays fine. Sometimes she'll hop around, but I'm fairly good at anticipating it now. If she's don't eating before I'm done milking and she walks away, I bring her back, strap her collar to the fence, and she stays. Stand your ground!!


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## crownofjules (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm into week two of drying Leelu off. 
I want to breed her in early summer (for Arizona-autumn kidding) since she's in stellar shape and very well adjusted. 
I came to the decision of dring her off after upping her feed, her protein, her grains, her minerals... plus de-worming her and supplementing her diet with Mo'Milk - I never did get any better than that barely 1/4 cup per milking. 
This week we're milking her in the low-stress evenings - every other night. I've cut her sprouted grain back to a third of what she was getting. 
Since her grain "shortage", she's broken into the feed/roughage boxes multiple times (lock learning curve). Such a naughty girl. She taught my innocent, previously-sated angels how to open them, as well! :drool: 
I take her out on the off evenings and let her run around loose with me for a while so she doens't feel abandoned. (and "blerp!" at me in the dark).


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I bet next kidding she will do better.


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