# 3 yr old nubian doe....critique her please



## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Also what should I look for in a buck to improve kids?


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I am not able to critique, but she is striking! She looks good to me


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## TrinityRanch (Mar 26, 2013)

Beautiful doe! She is very nice!

Pros-
*Length
*Straight topline
*Good brisket
*Straight legs
*Long, elegant neck
*Adequate depth
*(Her udder looks nice, too)

Cons-
*Slanted rump
*Comes down a _tiny _bit behind her withers
*Ear looks vertically folded

What I would look for in a buck, would be a little more depth, a straighter rump, correct ear-set, and maybe some genetics for longer teats. (That is about all that I can see referring to her udder!)

I really like her. She looks a lot like a moon-spotted Nubian doe that I have!!


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## nubians2 (Feb 20, 2011)

She is very pretty!


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thank you!! She is a great girl. Sweet and quiet and patient.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh, she has very striking color  I'm suprized you didn't have more comments on her!

Cons:
Slighlty steep rump
The chest floor needs to blend just a touch more into the barrel
She is a tad weak in the chine
I would like to see more slope in the spine (withers higher than hips)
Needs more body depth
Needs more femininity in the head

Pros:
Nice length
Appears to have good legs
Nice roman nose
Very elongated neck, it is feminine and slender
The birsket blends well
The neck blends well into the withers
Even though it is a bit too steep she has a long rump, short rumps are bad


If you can get a straighter side pics, along with front and back pics, then I can judge her further if you want. I can also judge her udder, if you want.

Other comments:
Her ears fold, but the way they fold is not a fault, but it would be in the were folded the other way
How old is she? How many kiddings?



Now for a buck, look for one with a strong straight topline, and has a bit of slope to it, the withers should be taller than the hips
Straight legs (no toe in or out) and with a nice angle, but not too much and not posty
No folds in the ears
A level rump (or near level)
And a long neck, not one that is short and really thick
Has to have a moderate brisket and width of chest floor
The chest floor should blend smoothly into the barrel
One that has nice body length, and more depth than your doe

And make sure he is wide in the escutcheon, this is overlooked in many bucks, nut is very critical really, just as important as a topline or rump. 
If a buck is not wide in the escutcheon, his daughters will not be either. Why is this important? The escutcheon has to be wide to have ample room for a nice sized udder. If the buck is narrow in the escutcheon, his does will be, and they will not have a good amount of room for a good size udder and it will generally be weaker attached because it will not be able to attach snug to the body.


So just do the best you can at finding a strong toplined buck with a good rump and wide escutcheon with some depth for now, if that is all that is available. 
If you have a good varity in your area, look for Mr. Right, the perfect buck.


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thank you! I love your critiques. And thanks for going into such detail on what to look for in a buck. I will be selling all kids next year to find an amazing buck. Is it possible to see these qualities in bucklings? Do they generally look like a mini version of their adult selves just shrunk down to scale and minus the bulk? I have an ok buckling to use this fall. His major plus is that he is adga registered purebred. He's not horribly built. He's just not nearly perfect(that's what I WANT lol) I already love my girls so selling them isn't an option so I need an amazing buck to improve their kids. I will be on the lookout. There are some decent Nubian breeders here in Maine so I'm hopeful!


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Oh and she is a 3 year old. Ff- kidded may 1. I'll try to get better pics. Somewhere I had posted a pic of her udder. Didn't get many replies other than someone thinking she was a nigerian mix


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I forgot to add, don't buy a buck from does with bad udders! That's is really important too, if you can look at the mother, grandmother on both sides. Make sure they have good size udders with strong attachments. If you can't see them in person, look at pictures, if you can't see pictures look up on ADGA genetics to see their LA's etc.

Yes, you can tell what they will look like as mature bucks when they are kids. Except for depth, most kids don't have that yet.

Her rib cage should drop down with more freshening.


Some little side tips and notes....

For the future, have a dry yearling is ok, but they should really have had one freshening by 2. I'm not sure how the rules are where you live, but at almost every ADGA sanctioned show they are not allowed in the show ring if they are 2+ years old with no udder or freshening. 
I breed my does at 7-8 months to kid at 12-13 months. But they have to be at least 80lbs at breeding time, if not then you will risk stunting them. 
And say my does are born in May, my fair is in August, so I could get their dry leg as a 3 month old, breed her in December as a 7 month old, kid her in May as a 12 month old, show her in August as 3 months fresh (that's when they are at peak production) and get another leg as a freshened 15 month old. Show her again next year as a 2 year old, get another leg and she would be a finished permanent grand champion (assuming she actually got a grand champion leg each time). So having a finished GCH as a 2 year old is.really pretty amazing, and you can definitely charge more for the kids for longer! 
The longer you wait to breed a doe, the less productive they will be.


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

I just got her last summer. I was surprised she hadn't been bred. She comes from decent lines on both sides. I can't wait to see how her daughters mature. They were born May 1st and weigh 25 and 26# do you think they will be big enough to breed come December? This is the buckling I have. I'm not sure he will improve on the girls much besides maybe a less steep rump. He isn't my dream buck by any means but he is what I'll be using this year. Any thoughts?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I have seen this buckling before, I think I critiqued him on another thread of yours have I not? He is a pretty good start though, not perfect but not bad.
Yes he should be big enough to breed some does in December, he would be 7 months old. My bucks are breeding size by 3 months old, so he should be well ready by then. He should be a bit bigger than he is now though. Just feed him well, start him on grain if he isn't already, and if he's on the mom thats fine, if he's on a bottle maybe feed him more.

With my bottle kids, I have them on a bottle for about 5 days, then I switch to a Lambar feeder, cold milk from the fridge, keep it full of milk, put an ice pack in there so it stays cold all day. The eat when they are hungry, but they can eat more often because it's not gonna walk away from them. The first few days I put warm milk in the Lambar though.


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## canthavejust1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Just for fun.....do you see anything good in my miss tubby? She is about 3 months old and weighs 45# her mom is my mixed breed. Im thinking daisy will be bred for freezer babies. I don't see pretty when I look at her. I see chubby lol you did critique my little buck before. He is a bit younger than the doelings. He will be 6 weeks old tomorrow


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Haha, Miss Tubby! That's hilarious! I have a few like that 

Actually she isn't a bad doe, she has a nice rump, a nice topline, good rear leg angle, what neck she does have blends well into the withers and brisket , she has nice body depth, and a fair amount of length would like more though. She is lacking in femininty, neck length, and brisket, and a bit of body length though. And it looks like she might possibly toe out in the rear.


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