# UGH! Is this fungal/ringworm or ?



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I just can't catch a break, seems we deal with one thing then move on to the next (random stuff but stressful enough!).

So we have 2 yearlings that looked like they had a small spot of mites on them. 
#1 has a small spot on her side (pic below). 
#2 had a small area on her rear leg, then a spot at the top of her front leg and a spot on her other side on side of belly.

I cleaned with Chlorohexidine then applied Nu Stock. Earlier this week I bathed them in Weavers medicated shampoo and blow dried them (first baths of the season).

Yesterday I noticed #2 - whatever it is it's spreading up her side and on her lower belly/heart girth area. I scrubbed her really good with Chlorohexidine and applied Nu Stock. I got a better look at it today, and am worried it may be ring worm. The spots lose hair and feel slightly raised - they may or may not have a scab in the middle.

#1 today I went over her and found several new spots - most have a red scab in the middle.

I am beyond aggravated and frustrated. We had a skin issue much like this last summer after going to a show - but thought perhaps it was from flies/screwworm or something of that sort. But definitely not from flies since they aren't out 'yet.'

I cleaned with Chlorohexidine and applied Shapley's M-T-G

Any ideas on how we can get rid of this and keep it from spreading? These does are supposed to be shown in about a month 
It's crazy how those other spots came up so fast.

Doe #1 (lower spot was the only one she had on Monday)










Doe #1



















#2 this was the original spot on her back leg.










#2 original spot on front leg










#2 all these new spots. I didn't get pics of the belly area as you can't really see much yet, but you can feel the scabs. I scraped the scabs off, cleaned with Chlorohexidine as mentioned above and rubbed in Shapley's.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Buy a blacklight. Someone just posted about ringworms showing up under UV.
Massive hair loss-hair changing color. Please help!
From SalteyLove


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

What he said lol if you can borrow or buy a black light to confirm then I would get Malaseb if it is ringworm . Apply athletes foot ointment until Malaseb arrives .


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! Any kind of black light will work? I've never used one (lol). I can stop at Walmart.

Never heard if Malaseb, I'll have to google it.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Straight bleach. - Worked well for me in the past.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Not ringworm per black light.

Goat Blessings - I plan on cleaning with bleach tomorrow. I'm thinking I'll clean in the morning and apply Nu Stock in the afternoon ir M-T-G perhaps since I have some left.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Be careful, straight bleach burns the skin and can scar it. 
I wouldn't go straight bleach.

I would take the goat to the vet and have them do a skin scrapping to determine what is happening.

The pic with the open sore, have you checked for warbles? Or was it that you had cleaned the area to clean skin?

Organic coconut oil works on a lot of skin ailments. Use it daily 2 x a day for a week. 
Get it a health food store and put it on the area.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

We have the exact. same. spots. on our goats. Nustock usually takes care of it. I think it might be ringworm but we don't have a blacklight. It doesn't look like ringworm though as you saw. We tried chlorohexidine, blu-kote, and nu-stock. Nu-stock is the only thing that works. I think it may be zinc deficiency as well and @goathiker said it could be from rubbing on fence. So frustrating. I agree with @toth boer goats that a skin scraping is probably the only way to tell for sure what it is.

https://www.thegoatspot.net/threads/is-this-ringworm.204329/


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

toth boer goats said:


> Be careful, straight bleach burns the skin and can scar it.
> I wouldn't go straight bleach.
> 
> I would take the goat to the vet and have them do a skin scrapping to determine what is happening.
> ...


Gah! I had a cat with the warbles once. It was right on top of his head and omg gross!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone! I'm definitely calling the vet Monday about doing a skin scrape. I can't keep guessing as this is frustrating and not knowing what the right treatment is has been nerve wrecking!
I was worried about warbles, but I am not seeing any holes in the skin. There is the irritated skin, scab, then just bald skin.
We had something similar last year which was bizarre - it only affected the back leg no where else, and I do think that was probably fly related. I haven't seen any flies at all so far this year, but we've had a lot of gnats which are common this time of year. I spray the girls with bug spray in the mornings before they go out to graze because of the gnats irritating their bellies.

The only other thing I can think of is.... could mites do this? In adults when we have a random case of mites it's usually under dew claw or on the legs. But with them shedding out, and skin more vulnerable? If it were mites maybe a skin infection? The skin feels harder/slightly raised in the bald spots.

I did clean the areas really well with straight bleach this morning and it didn't seem to bother them? I lathered them up with Nu Stock this evening. 

Doe #2 - has crusty/scabby feeling skin on lower shoulder above the bald spots on her front leg. I will keep checking on them 2x a day for any new spots or any changes.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Mites was my other suspicion. Our goat's spots feel exactly the same with the raised hard skin. We have injected ivermectin a few times when they were itching super bad over the whole body. But don't know for sure if it was mites. The scabby skin makes sense, but the spots seem to appear really quickly, and I thought mites progressed slowly with intense itching and the goats biting at themselves.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

21goaties said:


> Mites was my other suspicion. Our goat's spots feel exactly the same with the raised hard skin. We have injected ivermectin a few times when they were itching super bad over the whole body. But don't know for sure if it was mites. The scabby skin makes sense, but the spots seem to appear really quickly, and I thought mites progressed slowly with intense itching and the goats biting at themselves.


Frustrating isn't it? 
My only other thought is mineral deficiency allowing issues to flair up? Our girls are horrible about eating minerals no matter what brand we use. I don't understand it.
I've noticed some brown scabs on the tips of tails, but not really fishtail. But I'd assume that a sign of copper issues.
We dosed our does on 4/2 with 4 grams of copper EXCEPT... these 2 does! Of course that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the issue....
I gave these 2 girls 4 grams of copper on 4/23 and some selenium e gel (they got Bo-Se 1 1/2 cc on 2/10 but #2 and another doe still have slightly bent tails - which I was told could be selenium).
#1 is a leaner doe, had cocci (not awful but high enough to treat), gaining and looking great other than this skin issue.
#2 is in great body condition (chunky monkey!), hair may be slightly course/curly on the ends but she is still shedding out. Had a higher cocci count in fecal which totally surprised me on 4/10.

We have 21 goats and I'm not really seeing any issues with the others except a young wether that may be getting mites (stress from moving, banding, and getting used to handling doesn't help!).


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

It's still spreading. Doe #1 now has random spots all over her sides. #2 has some more spots starting to form above the others. I did lather her up in Nu Stock again, but #1 has them so randomly I couldn't do Nu stock.
They are tiny little spots and a few bigger ones with a crusty scab in the middle, if you pick the scab off, it may or may not have red or ***** looking skin underneath.

I'm definitely ruling flies out. This has got to be viral/bacterial, but wondering if a very aggressive mite could be doing this? So bizarre.

OR

I'm really wondering if it could be Staph? Would Staph spread like that? Strange that it's just these 2 does (but thankful it's only those 2).


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

This seems like it is exactly what our goats have! It was worse last summer, disappeared during the winter and this spring a couple of goats have it but not as bad as last summer. Since our goats are basically just pets we just put nu stock on the spots. I did some threads on here and never could figure it out. I also didn't think it was bites because it spreads so fast. Do they lick the spots? I'm curious to see what it is.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Get a vet to do a scraping, that is the only way to say what it is and how to treat it. How annoying that must be.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I will keep you updated 21goaties! I'm going to get the Providone-Iodine solution at TSC in a little while, and may start them on PenG. Someone on FB in a group I just asked in said Excede, but not sure I can get a few doses from the vet - she's a small animal vet who tries to help me out. I can't afford to get a bottle of it right now (around $250!). In 9 years of having goats I've never had to use an Rx antibiotic. 

Also - someone made the comment not all types of Ringworm will glow, so that's something to keep in mind. 
I'm definitely calling about the skin scrape tomorrow morning. 

We also had something similar come up last year, really thought it was from flies! But no flies. I'm wondering if this really is a case of mites that has a secondary infection. Especially since I missed the copper bolusing on these girls. Sometimes goats are easy to figure out and sometimes.....they throw us a curve ball that makes us crazy! :readingheadsmash)(doh)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, I feel bad for you and the goaties. 

Hope you get an answer soon.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I hope you get the problem solved quickly. Really strange that those are the two that did not get the bolus at same time as others.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks. This is definitely the last thing I need right now  So much else going on - not all bad, just super busy to the point I just can't get caught up. 

We started the girls on PenG this evening, and I used straight bleach on the spots/areas so hopefully something helps. I wanted to use the Iodine solution but my husband wanted me to use straight bleach again like Goat Blessings had mentioned.

I'll call the vet in the morning and get her input as well.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

We have 2 more does in that pen with a spot on each of them, ugh.

Took 2 girls to the vet today - #2 and one that just developed one overnight. Both also have some hair loss and crusty scabs around the chin/below the bottom lip. I didn't notice that before.

He said it is not sore mouth, and doubts ringworm. He did a skin scrap on #2, and found a lot of bacteria, but no mites in the skin scrape. Pulled hair/skin from affected area for a culture, and said it will be about 5-7 days before we may be able to get results from that. 

He gave them each a shot of Draxxin and we'll see if that helps clear it up. If it works then we'll work on getting the others treated. I'll keep #1 on penG 1x a day.
Going to clean with Iodine and alternate with Chlorhexidine. 
He thinks mites could still be a culprit and bacterial infection secondary so wants me to treat with injectable ivermectin which makes me super nervous - I switched to pour on because we had a bad reaction to injectable years ago that was so bad I thought I'd killed the doe.

So... that's where we are at.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry, 
@HoosierShadow 
I don't have any answers for you. I'm having a terrible time with mites, ticks, and spider bites this year, I know it is from the flooding and the mild temp Winter we had.

I'm trying hard to keep up with immune strengthening ideas, and giving Ivermectin Pour-on very often. I broke down and bought a 5 liter container, and decanted it into smaller containers.

If your conditions are anything like mine, I would not be ruling out spider bites...

I'm shocked as hell, but I'm completely amazed I have had no sign of Listeria yet!

One of my best doelings is fighting a copperhead bite tonight. I don't know if she'll make it or not, poor girl.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh my Copperhead bite mariarose hope the goat will be OK.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, the test is going to be torture waiting for the results.

Sad to say, injection may be the only way to defeat it, if it is mites.


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## Iluvlilly! (Apr 6, 2019)

Mariarose really hope that doe makes it!!! please give us any kind of update you have:update::update::update:........


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh no Mariarose I hope your doe will be okay, that is scary! Definitely keep us up to date! I am sorry your having all of the issues with the spiders too 

I am driving myself crazy with the 'what if it's this or that' stuff, ugh! It's just been the 1 pen with 6 does. But wonder about bugs like gnats or something similar. These girls go back into the back acre and the very back and east sides of that acre are a swamp right now, but they tend to graze near it (very tall, good grass on this acre). But that means lots of flying insects. We're just now starting to see some flies, but the gnats are really bad. We usually do have issues with gnats irritating bellies in the spring, and typically have to spray some with bug spray or even use Nu Stock to keep them from bothering them. So that made me leary of gnats being a culprit.

If it's mites we'll look into the injectable. I honestly want to google how to do a skin scrape for mites! I have been doing my own fecals, and I have regular slides, which is what it looked like he used yesterday, so we'll see. 

I cleaned them with Iodine wound spray again this morning - they are orange monsters (lol). Then sprayed them with Permethrin spray.


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

(console)


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Buffalo gnats and black flies are bad here. I have heard of chickens having allergic reactions to the buffalo gnat bites and suffocating from airway swelling. People who are highly allergic to the gnat nites in hospital. People with mild allergies to gnats swelling like a wasp or bumblebee sting. I am lucky, not allergic to them, they just bother the daylights out of me.
Could that be the.problem with your does? Benadryl?


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

HoosierShadow said:


> We have 2 more does in that pen with a spot on each of them, ugh.
> 
> Took 2 girls to the vet today - #2 and one that just developed one overnight. Both also have some hair loss and crusty scabs around the chin/below the bottom lip. I didn't notice that before.
> 
> ...


I have had skin problems similar to this with three of my goats. Losing hair in clumps, skin lesions, dry and scabby legs and back. I treated them with ivomec plus subq every 10 days with three treatments. It didn't help so brought them to the vet. Nothing on skin scrape, treated with ivomection pour on and Nu stock, mtg. Finally starting to clear up. Every spring, i have two boys like this!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks guys n'gals!

Doe #3 has more spots, how I didn't notice them this morning when I checked her? These are along her back. They have a tiny bit of puss under them, I removed scabs and cleaned with iodine, and on a couple of others I put triple antibiotic ointment just to see if it helps.

This is over the top of her ribs near her shoulder










There is a little hole under the puss. But when these heal there is no hole, just forms another scab and closes up.
She is not on antibiotics, the other 3 are. So if they have no more spots, we'll put her on on PenG and see what happens. Does #2 and #4 are the ones on Draxxin.

I definitely wonder about gnats, and if they are the culprit I have no clue how we could treat them and do prevention? Would keeping the grass trimmed down help? They are really bad this spring, but don't seem to be bothering the goats in the other pens with the exception of a wether we'd just banded earlier this month - he looks like he's trying to get a bit of infection above the band where they are separating and the gnats are really irritating it. I sprayed it really well with iodine and sprayed him with the permethrin spray, but I feel the spray is a very, very short term relief for the gnats - when it dries it's not very effective anymore.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Not to hijack the thread, because I don't have anything useful to add, but I've been asked for an update.

When I got home from the hospital tonight, I went around with a flashlight to check everyone, to make certain they all made it home from free ranging today.

The doeling was there, and still alive. She definitely is feeling under the weather, and her leg is swollen, but I do believe she will live.

However, a FF whose ligaments were completely gone this a.m. is not home. I have no idea where she is or if she's OK. I'm hoping she'll show up in the a.m. with twins in tow, wondering where I've been.

So far, I've had mites and spider bites on everyone, a fungal case on 1, and a frightening invasion of ticks, even on my DUCKS! (can you believe that?) 1 case of MW, 3 cases of pink eye, and 3 fairly mild cases of pnuemonia. I'm blaming this on the Winter conditions we've just lived through.

But... NO LISTERIA!!!! Not yet anyway. I'm beyond shocked.

I'm sure that whatever is attacking your girls has been allowed to flourish because of the weather, @HoosierShadow and none of this is your fault


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I'm so sorry,
> @HoosierShadow
> I don't have any answers for you. I'm having a terrible time with mites, ticks, and spider bites this year, I know it is from the flooding and the mild temp Winter we had.
> 
> ...


Am I gonna annoy you with redundancy if I say that you should consider garlic for all those problems

:neat:


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm gonna make you laugh, when I tell you, I've even blended garlic in my blender and smeared the result on them!

This may be why I haven't lost any to predators!!! They can't stand the garlic stink!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I'm gonna make you laugh, when I tell you, I've even blended garlic in my blender and smeared the result on them!
> 
> This may be why I haven't lost any to predators!!! They can't stand the garlic stink!


I assume by the use of the word "even" that you have actually given it internally as well?


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I have put garlic powder on my goats for lice. It worked a bit, but I freaked out when I decided to look through their coats and thought they had a major infestation because of all the "nits" I saw -- goodness it was just the garlic granules! :bonk::haha:


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

HoosierShadow said:


> Thanks guys n'gals!
> 
> Doe #3 has more spots, how I didn't notice them this morning when I checked her? These are along her back. They have a tiny bit of puss under them, I removed scabs and cleaned with iodine, and on a couple of others I put triple antibiotic ointment just to see if it helps.
> 
> ...


No clue how to keep them away. Vanilla extract watered down 50/50 works on the gnats here, until you sweat it off. Avon Expedition and Avon Skin So Soft.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, pus.
I would do as you are doing.

I would squeeze out the pus daily and flush it with iodine/water solution daily for at least 4 days. Unless you are still getting pus, then go longer.

Kinda wondering warbles.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Final update on my girls, so I won't hijack the thread any more. The snake bite victim, while still quite ill, is definitely going to live through this, and the missing FF showed up, hungry and proud, showing off a big beautiful single girl. I've named her Firecracker. I'm naming the snakebite victim Timex, because she takes a licking and keeps on ticking.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

That's awesome Mariarose! so glad to read your update! Will be fun naming the new baby!

I will look into the Garlic, but unfortunately any change in treatment has to wait until after Saturday as I just don't have a chance to go to the store. Today and the next 3 days will be super busy. 

Good news is - no new sores! I checked over everyone this evening and sprayed with Iodine, gave the 2 girls their penG shots. 
I'm praying this means they are on the mend, as I am nervous about not being able to check on them closely the next few days. I won't see them at all Fri/Sat.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I just thought of something (should be !)...

Could BOSS cause anything like this? These 4 are the only ones getting BOSS and I introduced it about a month ago.
Longshot but wanted to ask.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Could be. You don't know if there are pesticides on it or anything else.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear mariarose.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad the goats are doing good.

Not sure about the BOSS.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

What would you want to use the BOSS for I missed a lot of this thread?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> What would you want to use the BOSS for I missed a lot of this thread?


It can add shine to the coat, additional source of selenium and a little fat. These does are being prepped for summer show season.

I'm going to cut out the BOSS for now. Worst case, it'll go in the bird feeder lol.

I hope they will be okay and nothing new comes up. I've been out of town a lot the past 2 days and will be gone tomorrow morning through Sat night with hubby and kids taking care of them and a friend checking in on them during the day tomorrow.
(working Kentucky Oaks & Kentucky Derby - horse racing).


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I don't find BOSS to be extremely benefical -- but that's just me. I wouldn't rely on it, let's just say.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

My goats don't really care for BOSS in their feed. But they'll climb, rear up, and clash to eat it off of the bird feeding shelves we have set up.

Same seed, out of the same bag...
I have no explanation...


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> My goats don't really care for BOSS in their feed. But they'll climb, rear up, and clash to eat it off of the bird feeding shelves we have set up.
> 
> Same seed, out of the same bag...
> I have no explanation...


Never try to comprehend goat behavior, all you will get in return is odd stares from your neighbors (and family...) when you go out into the pasture and pretend to nibble the grass or hay so your goats will eat it when they are being stubborn. But I'll tell ya, as soon as I go to the feeder and turn the old hay upside down, they think it's new, and as soon as a stick my face in and make "chomp chomp" noises, they eat it like it's the best treat on earth. I'll say it saves a lot of hay with my picky ones who won't eat anything that's sat out for a whole day.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thought I'd update before I head to bed. No new sores on the girls! Skin feels really good. But doe #2 still has the bald spots. Hopefully hear something from the vet tomorrow. I ran out of Nustock, so they haven't been treated with it for a few days - I'll pick up more tomorrow when I'm in town. 
I'm very much in Kentucky Derby hangover mode (as we call it). So coming home to some good news on this part was much needed after the fiasco of a race yesterday.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That is good news!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! Well, I called the vet office yesterday afternoon and the culture came back negative for ringworm/fungal so that's good. But sure wish after spending the $$ we had some solid answers to this very frustrating and nerve wrecking issue. I'm so glad the girls are almost all healed up. 
I'm hoping to give them a bath tomorrow to clean the skin up - I have the Weaver Medicated Shampoo and picked up more Nu Stock today so hopefully we can get the hair growing back in the bald spots on the paint girl. First show is in a month, so I'm praying no more issues!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope it finally clears up quickly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh man, no answers, that is really frustrating, praying they are all good to go by the show.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks, yes frustrating for sure. Good news is, only the paint doe has any bald patches from the sores she had and looks like they are finally starting to get a little hair growth. The others never got it like her, you can't tell they ever had anything going on. Definitely strange.


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