# helping with breech births



## gotgoats

My goat kidded last week with triplets, and it was my first time to deal with breech births. I had some questions relating to assisting. I don't know if I did the correct thing, and would like to know how others would have done it. Also, if anyone has had a different experience and how to handle it, it would be nice to know what you did.

First question... The first one presented with back legs, and she was trying to push out the head and front legs. She really pushed but was not able to push her out. So I gently pulled out one front leg and helped pull down when she contracted. Was this the right thing to do?

Second question- What should be done if after a kid is born and the sac is still intact? 

Third question- If a kid is being born breech (head inside) and it's sac is broke, how quickly does the baby need to come out. She had a lot of trouble pushing and at one point quit trying to push as if she was tired. 

I know they may be common sense questions, but I want to do the right thing. Thanks


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## crocee

There is nothing common sense about giving birth and assisting .


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## sweetgoats

Well first of all, it is very important to know what leg is coming from what baby, so yes you feel to make sure it is all one baby. Sometimes you have to push the baby back in a but to get the baby so it can come out. ALWAYS pull gently and in a downward motion and pull with contraction. The most time line is when the cord breaks, that is the babies life line and that is how they get the oxygen so when it breaks they will start to breath on their won.
Sorry I do not quite know what you are talking about in #2, if the sack is still attached. Are you talking the placenta? The baby will come out with the sack.
As for #3. I went out side one day and found a doe in labor, she was a day from her first birthday and she was rather small. (Did not intend on her getting pregnant). Well all I saw was a butt and no sack. I do not know how long she had been that way, but I pushed the baby back in just enough to get the back feet and pull them out so I could pull with the next contraction. I did and I pulled out a big doe alive and well.


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## crocee

I think she was asking:
If the baby is still incased in its sack or bag, is it ok to break it open or leave it as is?


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## StaceyRosado

First question... The first one presented with back legs, and she was trying to push out the head and front legs. She really pushed but was not able to push her out. So I gently pulled out one front leg and helped pull down when she contracted. Was this the right thing to do? Yup thats the correct thing to do, get them out fast and easy

Second question- What should be done if after a kid is born and the sac is still intact? if the kid is still in the sack break it open and quickly clear the airway!

Third question- If a kid is being born breech (head inside) and it's sac is broke, how quickly does the baby need to come out. She had a lot of trouble pushing and at one point quit trying to push as if she was tired. pretty quick - he is already breathing and could sufficate. If the doe stops pushing you will want to pull gently and help the kid to be delivered


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## Anna

break the sac as soon as possible around the kid. Alot of times they get so caught up cleaning the first one they dont realize they have another kid that needs to e worked on. My doe, Glitz, delivered her second nearly an hour after the first. I went to check on what I thought was a single kid and found a nearly dead kid still in her sack behind Glitz. I have a line that seems to just have abnormally thick membranes, and I keep scissors(sp?) in my kidding tote now becuase I cant always break it open with my fingers.

#1- Yes, you did well, the main thing is pulling GENTLY, as long as the kid is coming easily, you are pulling right. 

#2- As guess I covered that up top.

#3- As long as the chord is still attached, I deliver breech kids like any other. I dont like any kid in the birth canal too long. I use my own judgemnet, I'm always paranoid about the chord getting pinched or borken and them not being able to breathe either. Since thier heads DO come out last they usually have a little more fluid in thier lungs so I'm sure to get all the goop out of thier air ways. first thing I do is grab them by the back legs, and let gravity do it's thing, and then I swing them and pat on thier sides. 

Follow your gut, every birth is a little different.


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## gotgoats

The first question, I wasn't sure if it was ok to pull the leg out to make more room.

The answer to my second question made me feel better. I was afraid I was being too panicky. The one that was born still in the sac, the mother licked on it and nothing happened and I saw the baby squirming like crazy and so I broke the sack and cleared the airways. I was afraid of it suffocating in fluid. I was also surprised how tough it was. Next time, I am putting a crochet needle or something in my kit for this.

Also, on the last question I wasn't sure since the sac was broke if they would be trying to breathe on their own, and what to do if she wasn't pushing.

Puts my mind at ease. I thought that I might have made haste with my decisions. You don't really have time to ponder or get on the internet. I have read and reread things on birthing positions and what to do, but I am so much more a hands on learner unfortunately.


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## toth boer goats

> Well first of all, it is very important to know what leg is coming from what baby, so yes you feel to make sure it is all one baby. Sometimes you have to push the baby back in a but to get the baby so it can come out. ALWAYS pull gently and in a downward motion and pull with contraction. The most time line is when the cord breaks, that is the babies life line and that is how they get the oxygen so when it breaks they will start to breath on their won.


question #1 i totally agree with Lori... 
If there are 2 at the front door...one has to be pushed back....Try to push one kid back ,then make sure the one at the front door is in the correct position ...to enter the world....as the doe contracts ..pull the kid.....repeat if necessary...A kid can be pulled at breech position with both back legs first...I do it with my boers anyway.... :wink:

#2 if the kid is born with sac still on... tear it open right away...get one of those snot sucker things and suck the fluid out of it's mouth and nose...
..I do not recommend though... to tear the bag away from the face... if the kid is still inside the does vaginal opening ...sometimes does may suck the kid back up...and may suffocate.... :worried:

#3 If the kid has a broken sack while still inside ...try to pull that kid as soon as possible...you won't know how long it has been that way....and could suffocate ...if it doesn't get air...

the does do get tired and if she stops ..you will have to go in and pull that kid...when you put your hand in her ...she will start to contract...pull when she contracts... :wink:

If you went inside her... she will need a bolus or antibiotics....to prevent infection...make sure ...when you have to go inside a doe... that your hands are very clean.....

did she drop her after birth?


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## Di

I had a kid born in a sack...DIL was helping...she said "this one looks deformed", I was working on previous kid. I turned to look and there it was squirming in the sack...I quickly jumped on this kid and ripped the sack open, cleaned kids mouth and airway. She was a little freaked (she has two children, after all), she'd never seen an animal born that way! I think she was a little surprised at the "quantity" of the "stuff" involved in goat birthing. She learned a vital lesson though. She's a great DIL!


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## keren

gotgoats said:


> My goat kidded last week with triplets, and it was my first time to deal with breech births. I had some questions relating to assisting. I don't know if I did the correct thing, and would like to know how others would have done it. Also, if anyone has had a different experience and how to handle it, it would be nice to know what you did.
> 
> First question... The first one presented with back legs, and she was trying to push out the head and front legs. She really pushed but was not able to push her out. So I gently pulled out one front leg and helped pull down when she contracted. Was this the right thing to do?
> 
> *I dont quite understand what you mean here - was the kid coming backwards, or forwards? Or were there two? I guess regardless, if a doe is unable to 'get it out' you need to get a kid into correct position (either backwards or forwards), and yes it is perfectly fine to add traction on the kid as she pushes. Pull out and down for a forwards, diving kid, DO NOT PULL DOWN ON A BACKWARDS KID!*
> 
> Second question- What should be done if after a kid is born and the sac is still intact? *BREAK IT BREAK IT QUICKLY! A kid's breathing instinct starts when the umbilical cord is broken. If the kid has been born its umbilical cord has normally stretched and broken, so the kid will start breathing. If it is born in the sack and the doe doesnt bite it off (I have never seen a doe get it off, when mine have been born with the sack the doe doesnt remove it, I have to) the kid will drown. I have one doe, Goldilocks, who I was watching in early stages last year. I went back inside to give her half an hour before the next check. Well I went out for the next check and saw her with one baby clean and dry, and another lying in the sack, which she was paying no attention to. I thought oh bugger, but then I saw it wiggle boy I have never jumped a fence so quickly. It took about ten minutes of stimulating until he was okay. I think I got there just in the nick of time. Then Goldy came over and said hey cool, you got this one to work, and was licking and loving on him lol weird goat*
> 
> Third question- If a kid is being born breech (head inside) and it's sac is broke, how quickly does the baby need to come out. She had a lot of trouble pushing and at one point quit trying to push as if she was tired. *As I said above, the kid starts to breathe when the umbilical cord breaks, NOT when the bag breaks. But, when the breech baby is being born, the presentation of the kid means the cord is often cut as the kid moves over the pelvis. This happens in forwards births as well but by that stage the head is out, in a breech case the head is still well within the doe, and for that reason it is generally accepted in industry that a breech birth must be delivered AS SWIFTLY AS POSSIBLE. I generally let my does kid with minimal interference, but if I see hind feet coming, I am in there and pulling that kid before the cord is broken and it dies. Its really important not to pull down on a breech kid, because you increase your chances of that cord breaking on the pelvic rim.*
> 
> I know they may be common sense questions, but I want to do the right thing. Thanks


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