# AAAHHHH!!! Low production



## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Hi all,
I have received at LEAST 6 cups a milking from my alpine doe the last couple of years. This last year she gave 12 cups per milking. This year she was bred to a Nigerian instead of an alpine like usual and she only had one kid instead of two like her other kiddings. 
This year she has only given me about 3-3/12 cups per milking. I'm kinda shot for milk since I have a lady who needs two quarts and (going to go up) a day since her doe died and left two kids. That doesn't leave much milk for MY kids as well as my family. I have been feeding my kids just regular vit. d milk but i'd prefer to give them real goat milk. 

Any ideas?
Thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you start milking her right away since she only had one kid?


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

Feed her well and milk her as often as you can. 
Did she have a single doe kid this year?


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

ksalvagno said:


> Did you start milking her right away since she only had one kid?


No, because her udders never got tight. I was going to cause I thought she would be real right but she never was.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> Feed her well and milk her as often as you can.
> Did she have a single doe kid this year?


Honestly, her udder is loose when I milk her. So milking all the time I don't think would help production. Her udder can hold three quarts, so only one barely fills it up at all. I've been giving her alfalfa hay and grain.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

How long ago did she kid? Was if an easy kidding? Was if a buck kid or a doe kid? Is the hay from a different supplier than years past? Is it a different cutting? How about the grain? Is she eating all her grain? How much hay and grain does she get?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice and questions.

If you feed her properly, alfalfa hay and some grain and milk her, her production should increase, make sure she is drinking water.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Why doesn't the lady feed _her goats_ cows milk and you use your milk for your kid?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The problem may be demand. With only one kid, the demand wasn't there so she produces less. Milking multiple times per day can bring production up since you are creating more demand.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

Even if she’s not full milking more often will stimulate more milk production. Getting full and tight tells her she’s making too much. Keep her as milked out as you can and feed her well.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Ranger1 said:


> How long ago did she kid? Was if an easy kidding? Was if a buck kid or a doe kid? Is the hay from a different supplier than years past? Is it a different cutting? How about the grain? Is she eating all her grain? How much hay and grain does she get?


Two weeks. Yes, she delivered with no help, 
The hay is different but it's actually higher quality. I think it may be an earlier cutting. I've been giving her about two cups of barley per milking. She gobbles it up. I give them free choice hay.


toth boer goats said:


> Good advice and questions.
> 
> If you feed her properly, alfalfa hay and some grain and milk her, her production should increase, make sure she is drinking water.


Thanks. She is drinking lots of water.


Goats Rock said:


> Why doesn't the lady feed _her goats_ cows milk and you use your milk for your kid?


I was wondering the same thing, lol.


ksalvagno said:


> The problem may be demand. With only one kid, the demand wasn't there so she produces less. Milking multiple times per day can bring production up since you are creating more demand.


Ok. Thanks.


CBPitts said:


> Even if she's not full milking more often will stimulate more milk production. Getting full and tight tells her she's making too much. Keep her as milked out as you can and feed her well.


Thanks.


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

Barley might be part of your problem-it’s not that high in protein. You want at least 16% protein grain for milkers, slightly more the better.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Ranger1 said:


> Barley might be part of your problem-it's not that high in protein. You want at least 16% protein grain for milkers, slightly more the better.


Well I don't know of a feed that's that high in protein that doesn't have molasses. And ideas?


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

healthyishappy said:


> Well I don't know of a feed that's that high in protein that doesn't have molasses. And ideas?


Why are staying away from molasses?


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

https://www.purinamills.com/2.purin...ts/Purina-Goat-Chow-Sell-Sheet_1.pdf?ext=.pdf ????


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> Why are staying away from molasses?


Because I have noticed it makes my does milk taste bad. I do feed it to any that i'm not milking though.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

healthyishappy said:


> Because I have noticed it makes my does milk taste bad. I do feed it to any that i'm not milking though.


Have you considered trying fermented feeds? We mostly use triticale because we get it locally in trade but we've fermented a lot of different whole and cracked grains. Fermenting will really increase the feed values and make a grain highly digestible while increasing the available protein levels. It's a bit more work but once you have your routine worked out it's not bad.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> Have you considered trying fermented feeds? We mostly use triticale because we get it locally in trade but we've fermented a lot of different whole and cracked grains. Fermenting will really increase the feed values and make a grain highly digestible while increasing the available protein levels. It's a bit more work but once you have your routine worked out it's not bad.


How do I ferment it? I wouldn't mind the extra work.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

I fill a clean bucket with a lid 3/4 with dry grain. I use raw apple cider vinegar with the mother as a fermentation base. Add about a half cup then fill the bucket with warm water, around 100 degrees. Put the lid on loosely. 
I let it sit for about a week, giving it a stir once a day. After a week I use a mesh strainer to scoop and feed. Once I’ve started feeding one bucket I start the next so I have a constant supply. 
As with any feed, make changes slowly. I have had way less probiotic needs since feeding fermented as they are getting active cultures with every bite.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I wouldn't trust Fermenting.
It can produce mold.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

toth boer goats said:


> I wouldn't trust Fermenting.
> It can produce mold.


Any feed can produce mold. Hay that's baled a bit too damp, grain with higher moisture content, even dry feeds in humid environments can mold. Most molds are harmless, some aren't. Ruminants are more forgiving to feed as they have a digestive system that can easily deal with most molds. 
I have dealt with very little mold issues in my years of fermenting feeds. 
IME fermenting feeds is way easier and safer than sprouting, or soaking, and makes you more aware of molds that can happen in other feed stuffs.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> I wouldn't trust Fermenting.
> It can produce mold.


That's a good point. Maybe sprouting WOULD be better... but mine hate it. I guess sprouting can make mold too though.


CBPitts said:


> I fill a clean bucket with a lid 3/4 with dry grain. I use raw apple cider vinegar with the mother as a fermentation base. Add about a half cup then fill the bucket with warm water, around 100 degrees. Put the lid on loosely.
> I let it sit for about a week, giving it a stir once a day. After a week I use a mesh strainer to scoop and feed. Once I've started feeding one bucket I start the next so I have a constant supply.
> As with any feed, make changes slowly. I have had way less probiotic needs since feeding fermented as they are getting active cultures with every bite.


Thank you. How many days does this keep?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Goats can be very sensitive to mold and get polio and even die from it.

I would caution fermenting feeds. After 1 week, you are asking for mold issues.
I am sorry but, I cannot ignore the importance of not giving goats anything which can or has even a touch of mold in it.

I know hay, which is baled to wet, can indeed mold, however, when we see it, we do not feed it.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

It’s very hard to have mold anywhere in fermented feed tubs. If you don’t stir it mold could start to grow on the top but mold needs air to grow, otherwise the bacteria just causes fermentation. Honestly, I know several folks at larger dairies that will just scoop any funk off the top and then stir and feed. It is important that the grain is allowed to absorb water and is kept with a liquid level a couple inches above the grain line. 
While polio from mold is possible, polio is rare in animals fed fermented feed because the vitamin b levels are so high. Once fermentation has occurred the enzyme content on the grains improves, and the levels of vitamins B, C, and K increases while boosting the protein content within the grains. 
We know the health benefit to people from consuming fermented foods but they are even better for an animal that’s entire digestive system is based on fermentation. 
I’ll post some links you could read through and you can go from there.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

http://lifeatmennageriefarm.blogspot.com/2013/03/fermented-grain-old-timers-secret.html?m=1

https://www.hobbyfarms.com/fermented-feed-a-farm-kid-chore/


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

To each his own, but I rather not do that.


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

Can you not find a small grain pellet that is 16 percent protein ? I know Tractor supply carries a couple of goat pellet that is 14 protein and you can add some Black oil sunflower seeds (BOSS). Plus calf mana pellets and alfalfa pellets and that should be high enough to produce plenty of milk.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

TexasGoatMan said:


> Can you not find a small grain pellet that is 16 percent protein ? I know Tractor supply carries a couple of goat pellet that is 14 protein and you can add some Black oil sunflower seeds (BOSS). Plus calf mana pellets and alfalfa pellets and that should be high enough to produce plenty of milk.


Can I have some links? Just for the goat pellets. Since I already have alfalfa pellets and am getting BOSS.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

healthyishappy said:


> https://www.purinamills.com/2.purin...ts/Purina-Goat-Chow-Sell-Sheet_1.pdf?ext=.pdf ????


What about this??? Anybody? That's not a sweet feed is it?


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

healthyishappy said:


> What about this??? Anybody? That's not a sweet feed is it?


That's a molasses based feed. Almost all of them are. Trying to find a dairy feed that isn't a molasses based feed is going to be extremely difficult.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> That's a molasses based feed. Almost all of them are. Trying to find a dairy feed that isn't a molasses based feed is going to be extremely difficult.


So I might as well feed a mix I make.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Alright. So say I do 1/4 cup BOSS, 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets, 1 cup sprouted wheat, how much calf manna? Or should I use calf manna as my base for grain? It's expensive but it looks like you don't have too feed much.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

Honestly, I know way too many goats that have died from acidosis from being fed calf manna on a regular basis so I won’t use it. It’s just too hard to balance as a long term feed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Tractor supply has purina goat grower it is not a molasses product. 

You can feed molasses grain, short term, not long term, as it can cause issues.

Add a little calfmanna, which tractor supply also has, then you will have a good grain source.

Read the labels and start out slowly. 
It doesn't take much calfmanna.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> Honestly, I know way too many goats that have died from acidosis from being fed calf manna on a regular basis so I won't use it. It's just too hard to balance as a long term feed.


That's good to know. Thank you!


toth boer goats said:


> Tractor supply has purina goat grower it is not a molasses product.


But can you get that without it being medicated?


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Hi...
I have been feeding the Purina Goat Feed (sweet feed/molasses) to my Nigerian Dwarf does for a couple of years with no issues. I don't notice any kind of bad taste in the milk...just tastes "clean". I have one doe that separates the pellets from the grains...she will always have a couple mouthfuls of pellets left in her bucket. (lips like a ninja...LOL)

That being said, I have been thinking of changing feed this year to "ADM Dairy Goat Power Complete Feed" (www.admanimalnutrition.com)...this is a 16% protein PELLETED feed...no molasses. 
***Says NOT to feed it to male goats***

I am considering changing to ADM because it is what my friend (hers is a Grade A Dairy Farm) feeds her does. She has done a lot of research and has been feeding ADM for several years now and has many of her does producing over 1000#/305 days.

Here's the info. from the website:

Nutritional Highlights of Dairy Goat Power™ Complete Feeds*








Read less ▲

Dairy Goat Power™ 16% (80861AAA)

16% protein, 2% fat and no more than 7.5% fiber

**Do not feed Dairy Goat Power Complete Feeds to male goats*. Goat Power Mineral should be offered free-choice at all times.
Goat Power products contain copper. Do not feed to sheep or other copper sensitive species. 
Angora and Pygmy goats have been reported to be sensitive to copper supplementation.
Refer to product labels for complete feeding directions.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Hi


toth boer goats said:


> Tractor supply has purina goat grower it is not a molasses product.
> 
> You can feed molasses grain, short term, not long term, as it can cause issues.
> 
> ...


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

Hi Toth Boer Goats...
This is the first time I've heard about molasses grain causing any issues. Can you elaborate, please..? Does it have something to do with the sugar content of the molasses..?

Thanks! 
(looks like I put my comment in the wrong spot above)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

healthyishappy said:


> That's good to know. Thank you!
> 
> But can you get that without it being medicated?


 Yes, they have non medicated as well. Read the labels.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

HMNS said:


> Hi Toth Boer Goats...
> This is the first time I've heard about molasses grain causing any issues. Can you elaborate, please..? Does it have something to do with the sugar content of the molasses..?
> 
> Thanks!
> (looks like I put my comment in the wrong spot above)


 Hey there.
I use to feed molasses grain, until I a goat come down with abomasal ulcers and rumen acidosis. 
The goat continued to lose weight and never came out of it. So had to be put down. 
Molasses long term, can indeed cause issues in some goats.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Yes, they have non medicated as well. Read the labels.


Well I checked around and they don't at my store.


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

healthyishappy said:


> Well I checked around and they don't at my store.


I have this problem too. If they carry the medicated version they may order you the non medicated type. Unfortunately some stores require a minimum order. That's my problem locally. I don't have anywhere to store a huge amount of grain without worrying about mold and mice.


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## HMNS (Jul 15, 2019)

toth boer goats said:


> Hey there.
> I use to feed molasses grain, until I a goat come down with abomasal ulcers and rumen acidosis.
> The goat continued to lose weight and never came out of it. So had to be put down.
> Molasses long term, can indeed cause issues in some goats.


Interesting and sad...sorry you lost the goat 

I mentioned in a post (above) that I am considering changing feed from Purina to ADM. Though I have never (personally) heard of molasses causing issues, I sure don't want to take any chances with the health of my girls so, ADM is sounding, more and more, like it will be the better feed option for us. I will be doing some more research on the molasses issue for sure!

Thank you for letting me know your experience.
Have a great day!!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Sorry you do not have access to the medicated version, here, we have that choice.
You can ask if they can get it in for you.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Long term molasses grain, isn't good for them.
However, they can be fed short term with no issues.

I do feed it the last month of pregnancy, up until 2 weeks after they kid, so they do not have issues, then go to the regular grain thereafter.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

CBPitts said:


> I have this problem too. If they carry the medicated version they may order you the non medicated type. Unfortunately some stores require a minimum order. That's my problem locally. I don't have anywhere to store a huge amount of grain without worrying about mold and mice.


Mine will not order it. And I can not store a whole bunch of grain either.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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