# A Rant...



## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

This morning like most Sundays we went to breakfast at our local Denny's, this time, the manager came out and was realy rude and kicked us out because I use a service dog, he has NEVER done anything wrong, NEVER barked, NEVER even attempted to get on the table (that was her biggest complaint) he is a CERTIFIED, TRAINED, LICENCESED, SERVICE DOG, he lays on my coat on the chair and doesn't move the whole time, no one knows he is there unless they see me bring him in, I carry his certs with me and he is wearing his vest, what more do they want? I will call corporate on Monday thankfully we know someone who use to work there and he gave me the # to complain to


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I am one that their biggest pet peeve is people bring their dogs into restaurants or stores BUT in this case, this is total crap! I would be livid beyond words. I am so very sorry they did that to you! At the very least I would be making some calls


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is sad, especially if you have proof, I would of called management and clued them in on it.

I believe those who made you leave, will be in trouble.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Am I totally a stranger here? A licensed service dog is always allowed into restaurants, shops, pharmacopeas, and so on. Other dogs are supposed to stay outside. This can be read on signs at the entrance, no way to misunderstand.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Definitely call Corporate, @spidy1 
I can't imagine what this is about.
But Corporate needs to know... and explain.

I wonder if this isn't a confusion between a service animal and an emotional support animal?

Or perhaps Denny's allows no service dogs, ever... I don't know. But it is bad policy if that is the case, and Corporate needs to hear that.

Denny's allows people to put their babies on the table (with wet diapers) and they allow people to come out of the restroom and plop their purses (which may have been on the floor) on the tables... You can't stop germs from getting on tables. That is why the tables are supposed to be disinfected after each family leaves...


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

Service dogs are not required to be licensed. ( in USA)

They can ask if the dog is a service dog and what it is trained to do.

Here's the ADA
https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I will call corporate in the morning (Monday) and complain, he is a certified PTSD service dog, you can imagine what this did to me, he cant be mistaken for a emotional support dog as his ID card distinguishes he is a service dog


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I thought legally they have to let service dogs in. They should have asked you if he was a service dog. How terrible.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

According to ADA they can't kick you or your dog out. I'd call cooperate and the local tv stations and have them investigate. Sorry this happened to you!


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## Korita (Jan 11, 2018)

Unfortunatley, many people are not educated on legalities and/or differences of service animals and emotional support animals. And to make matters worse, there are so many people out there that claim an animal to be a service animal when in fact it is not and obviously not by the animals behavior. It’s easy to buy a “service” vest online too  The bad apples ruin it for those that truly need it. 

My understanding is you can ask if it is a service animal but cannot ask why you need it. If you have the papers, did you show them? And they still kicked you out?!?!? Terrible! I’m sorry you had to go through this.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I think there are some places, that deal with the public, that can forbid animals, including certified service animals, because of allergy concerns. Places like clothing stores where fur and dander can get onto the clothing. 

I know there was serious contention about it anyway.

And I can understand that case. A dog can't always control where its fur or dander goes.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

yes I have the papers, she refused to see them, but yes I had them with me, I always carry them with me when in town.
EDTT: I understand what you are saying about hair, but Niko is a Chinese Chrested Hairless, he does not shed.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, @spidy1 I wasn't saying this case specifically. No, I'm on your side here. Especially that "on the table" thing. Ridiculous.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

I know Maria, you have helped me alot, :ty:I'm just a bit ticked off right now (headsmash)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I've always been told that proper service animals are trained to lie on the floor under the seat or table by their master's feet and are never allowed up on chairs. The last person I spoke to about this was a service dog trainer and she told me that's one way to tell if they're real (that, and real service dogs are _never_ allowed to be touched by people other than the owner they are assisting). Maybe she was in error, but perhaps this is what the manager of Denny's has been told as well. I'm not taking sides here, but I would probably mistake your dog for an emotional support animal if I saw it on the seat too. It can be very hard to tell these days. What good are vests and certificates when they can be purchased online? I think it's way past time we had a government certification and licensing program so the real service animals can be distinguished from the glorified pets.

There was a kerfuffle last year at one of our local restaurants because a man insisted on bringing his search and rescue dog (a huge, slobbering St. Bernard) into the dining area and the owners said no. It wears a service vest and a harness and has all kinds of credentials, but it isn't actually a service dog. I had the displeasure of meeting this beast at a banquet for volunteers at our local library last year. The dog was slobbering on people, wagging it's huge, hairy tail in diners' faces, sniffed all the food on the buffet, and kept straining on its leash to beg for affection from strangers. It may have had all the equipment of a service animal, but it didn't have one bit of the training. This man thinks of his dog as some type of service animal and tries to bring it with him everywhere into all the local businesses. Most business owners let him get away with it because they're afraid to say no. I suppose if the dog were small the owner could disguise its ill manners a bit better, but that still wouldn't make it a service dog.

All this to say... business owners have a very tough time distinguishing between real service animals and fake ones these days, so try not to be too hard on the manager. They are not omniscient, and for all we know he may have had to deal with a lot of imitation service dogs recently. Wouldn't it be funny if he was on a restauranteur's forum ranting about fake service animals? (Not saying yours is fake, but it's important to look at it from his perspective too and realize he has no real way to tell and no legal way to properly ask.)

Try not to fret, Spidy1. Life is short and there is more good in it than bad.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry that is very frustrating. I too would be calling and complaining.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> yes I have the papers, she refused to see them, but yes I had them with me, I always carry them with me when in town.
> EDTT: I understand what you are saying about hair, but Niko is a Chinese Chrested Hairless, he does not shed.


If it ever happens again... either you call the police or let them call. They absolutely cannot deny a service animal entry. Emotional support animal... yes they can. But... your SA is not supposed to be in the booth. He needs be on the floor u der the table or chair. Even if he does not try for a nibble of food the rules are clear in not in the booth. Sorry this happened to you! They are only allowed to ask if it is a service animal and what tasks it does for you.... not what your disability is.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

mariarose said:


> I think there are some places, that deal with the public, that can forbid animals, including certified service animals, because of allergy concerns. Places like clothing stores where fur and dander can get onto the clothing.
> 
> I know there was serious contention about it anyway.
> 
> And I can understand that case. A dog can't always control where its fur or dander goes.


The only place that is allowed to deny service dog entry is a surgical suite or doc office where same day type surgery is done. Anyone can deny an emotional support animal though.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well it does make sense that a service animal should be on the floor, and it is ashamed that so many people take advantage of the fact that they are needed by some but you had the papers and were willing to show them and she still tossed you out?! If she knew the whole must be on the floor thing ok I can get her coming over, but when your pushing papers at her she really should have let you stay and explained that it must be on the floor. I’m sure someone complained and shame on them!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Ah, I see.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

I get SO UPPITY about this topic. The fact that people even sell "certifications" or "credentials" online drives me nuts. They don't need any sort of papers or cards and places that sell them just print off some bogus forms. They could certify a fish. The only possible paperwork I could see being useful is a training certificate but even those are unnecessary as service dogs can be trained by their handlers. Even vests are optional.

Employees of an establishment can ask
1. If the animal is a service animal
2. What tasks is the animal trained to perform
They CAN ask a service animal and handler to leave if the animal is being disruptive, aggressive, uncontrollable, or... excreting things. If your dog was barking, biting, running away, or peeing on stuff, I could understand but this is unacceptable.

The reason certification companies are bogus and a national registry doesn't exist is the same: asking why an individual needs the animal is in violation of HIPAA. As a result, any registry could register a service animal to a non-disabled individual. Even registering the dogs alone based on a training program is problematic because disabled individuals have the right to train their own dogs.

An obedience/task-based test for service dogs might work, but it would be very expensive to have travelling examiners or an examiner in every major city. Also, since service dogs are as varied as the people who use them, some tasks are not performed on command. For example, some service dogs are trained to sense changes in blood sugar for a diabetic or sense an oncoming seizure in an epileptic. These tasks are difficult to trigger safely.

And, if anyone is wondering, an emotional support animal (ESA) is not the same as a service animal. Service animals are trained to perform tasks to assist a disabled person. No papers, cards, IDs, vests, tags, prescriptions, or GED required. An ESA is an animal whose presence is calming or comforting to a person with a mood disorder, as prescribed by the person's doctor. The owner must get a note from a doctor prescribing the animal and must present the note to landlords or airlines to admit the animal. ESAs are allowed to fly on airplanes in the cabin with their owners and live where their owners live without extra charges, unless the animal breaks or befouls something that must be repaired, replaced, or cleaned. They are not allowed to go everywhere their owner goes. Service animals are allowed to go wherever their handler is permitted except sterile or semi sterile areas, unless the animal is behaving unacceptably as described above.

I am so angry right now. I could talk about this for hours.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Deborah Haney said:


> I am so angry right now.


Are you angry at us? Because I have found this thread most illuminating, and I do apologize for my ignorance and misinformation.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Me, too, I have learnt a lot from this thread. Thanks!


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## Ranger1 (Sep 1, 2014)

I would assume that she, like me, is angry at the fake certification companies that keep wasting people’s money, and was able to steal some from the OP as well. Certification and paperwork on service dogs is a scam.

OP, I’m sorry you’re dealing with access issues with your SD. Businesses need to provide more employee training on this issue, because it is such a prevalent issue, but it’s *partly* the SD community’s fault for not doing more to raise awareness about SD and the laws that protect them and grant them access.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

mariarose said:


> Are you angry at us? Because I have found this thread most illuminating, and I do apologize for my ignorance and misinformation.


I am pretty sure she is angry at the dolts who do the fake certification and claim little foo foo is a SA and the dolts that think their bozo as a ESA has te same rights as a true SA. Not us. . I take my wolfhound who is my SA to the grocery on super bad days and i have been called out on him... i think more because of his size. But there is a lady who does take foo foo into the grocery and she admits itis nothin more than her pet... they let her put that lil sheet in the buggy and shop. People dont say a word but the same people try get me kicked out. Go figure. And yes i have told a mgr about foo foo.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

do to his training, he has to be close to me at all times, he cant preform his duty from the flour, ether right next to me or on my lap, I can see objecting if he was a St Bernard or other big slobbery dog, but a 10lb spotless dry mouth hairless dog?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It still comes down to that the manager should have asked questions before kicking you out. I hope it can get cleared up when you talk to corporate.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

I am new but this is a hot topic for me. I hope corporate takes it seriously.

For those talking about certifications through the state, I am actually OK with that IF it’s similar to disability parking. I had to prove my son’s medical need to be close to the building, so I am fine with the same process for an animal for service needs. BUT, I feel it should be free to the owner, through the state (not some private owned business), and the paperwork should be similar to what we had to give to get our placards for my son. People abuse the service animal title (those who just want their snookums with them, not service animal owners) and companies are terrified to ask even the allowed questions. I have seen animals that were clearly not service animals shopping with me in stores. Even when they are out of control store owners look the other way in fear of a lawsuit or news story.

I hope Denny’s really either re-educates that manager or fires her. As those that need accommodations we must be careful to follow the letter of the law. So must stores and businesses.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

TandK said:


> I am new but this is a hot topic for me. I hope corporate takes it seriously.


me two, I found out today is a holiday, so I will have to wait 1 more day :ahh:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, they need to make it right and educate their employee's. 

Also, if they were decent, they need to give you a free meal. 

Good luck.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> me two, I found out today is a holiday, so I will have to wait 1 more day :ahh:


I wondered if they would be open today. Most non-government/non-bank businesses are open so I was hoping they were.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Good luck! 
I was at a Fair Board meeting last week and the issue of Service Dogs came up. Our fair grounds are split with a county road right through the center. They put the entry gates on either end and parking is on one side of the road (along with the horse complex, rest of fair is on the other). Anyway, you pay at the little booth, then get a hand stamp and wrist band. They are to ask, "any service animals?" If the answer is yes, that's it. Your wrist band has a dot on it or some other discreet mark.

No one else is permitted to ask or inquire about the service animal. No questions are permitted about the nature of the condition the animal is trained to deal with. (Like asking a wheelchair person the nature of their disability). 

This all came up because of a person at the Geauga County Fair with a Service dog. The person was asked 4 X. (Gate, parking, entry into actual fair and a vendor). They are suing for harassment. (Ohio disability act).


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

TandK said:


> I wondered if they would be open today. Most non-government/non-bank businesses are open so I was hoping they were.


I called, no luck, then I relised it was a holiday.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

mariarose said:


> Are you angry at us? Because I have found this thread most illuminating, and I do apologize for my ignorance and misinformation.


No, no you guys are fine. I just get worked up thinking about all the people abusing a system in place to help a marginalized people group, and the people who overtly oppress said people group out of sheer ignorance (the dennys manager)


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah, but WHY is it the Denny's manager's fault? I see no reason be angry at this person, who is probably at their wit's end over the endless confusion between service animals, emotional support animals, and just plain pets. There are no guidelines anywhere. It's not the job of harassed business managers and underpaid employees to try to sort this out when there is a total breakdown in the system that hasn't remotely been resolved at the legal level. If they throw their hands in the air and allow anyone to bring in any animal for fear of repercussions, then they run the risk of violating all kinds of health codes. Meanwhile, if they try to keep non-service animals out, they run the risk of violating the ADA. It is by no means the manager's fault.


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## Deborah Haney (Jul 11, 2017)

Of course it's in part corporate's fault for lack of training but in my opinion, most decent people would do a quick "ADA service animals" google search before ejecting someone from a public eatery because that's how you get sued, fired, or on the internet. The ADA.gov FAQ appears at the top of the page. Or at least have a conversation with the individual in question.


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Sorry if I came off a little strong up there, but one of the ugliest aspects of the internet is for people to dog pile on a total stranger (in this case a restaurant manager) when we have no way of hearing that person's side of the story. I see calls for firing, public shaming, re-education, etc. in this thread. But the way I see it, both Spidy1 and the restaurant manager are equally victims of completely ambiguous laws whose spirit and intention are constantly violated by people who just want to drag their pets with them everywhere. Do not blame Spidy1. Do not blame the restaurant manager. Blame the system and blame the people who abuse it, and if you care deeply or are affected by this issue, lobby for clearer laws. 

I would not be surprised if some states or counties have health codes that specify that all service animals must remain on the floor in any establishment that serves food, in which case a manager would be breaking the law to allow a dog to remain on a seat. Just a thought.

Once again, I'm not blaming you Spidy1, but I think everyone needs to cool down and realize that there is more than one victim in this situation.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Ahhhh, the ever present debate of Service Animal VS Pet Support Animal. 
These always break down to opinion to me. 
The laws like most laws in this country have worded to the point of insanity. 

Personally, that dog while having the collars of a service animal, at first glance I would say is a pet that is for emotion support, and not an animal that leads a blind person through an intersection. So just of that I would say the animal needed to be kenneled or at the best on the floor. 

I dont even want to start with hygiene laws, pet laws with biting people, or what have you. Its like that fool trying to get on an airplane with her fish in a fish bowl, because it was a support animal for anxiety. 

Im not throwing off because had I been in the Dennys I wouldve eaten my lumberjack slam and moved on. lol Dog wasnt bothering me. (personally if I were there).


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Even better... the girl who flushed her "emotional support hamster" down the toilet before her flight because they told her she couldn't take it on the plane. Or much worse, the poor man who had his face mauled by an emotional support Labrador, and he couldn't get away because he was in the window seat and trapped by the vicious dog. Yikes! Now _there_ is a lawsuit! And what happens if someone in the next booth has a sever allergic reaction to what turns out to be a pet and not a real service animal? Do they get to sue the restaurant for allowing pets in a place that one can reasonably expect to be pet-free? There are no easy answers here and I feel bad for disabled persons and business owners, managers, and employees alike.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

This day and age with the law suit frenzy people have I would be nervous. You dont know how worried I get with Clyde, last thing I need is for him to get loose, go blubbering around the neighborhood and catch a harassment charge or some other type of Goat on something assault.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

Damfino said:


> Sorry if I came off a little strong up there, but one of the ugliest aspects of the internet is for people to dog pile on a total stranger (in this case a restaurant manager) when we have no way of hearing that person's side of the story. I see calls for firing, public shaming, re-education, etc. in this thread. But the way I see it, both Spidy1 and the restaurant manager are equally victims of completely ambiguous laws whose spirit and intention are constantly violated by people who just want to drag their pets with them everywhere. Do not blame Spidy1. Do not blame the restaurant manager. Blame the system and blame the people who abuse it, and if you care deeply or are affected by this issue, lobby for clearer laws.
> 
> I would not be surprised if some states or counties have health codes that specify that all service animals must remain on the floor in any establishment that serves food, in which case a manager would be breaking the law to allow a dog to remain on a seat. Just a thought.
> 
> Once again, I'm not blaming you Spidy1, but I think everyone needs to cool down and realize that there is more than one victim in this situation.


I hope my re-education comment wasn't taken wrongly. She handled it wrong so my first inclination is has she received proper service dog education in order to make a sound decision as a manager? If not, she needs to receive it. It's only fair to the manager to be properly educated in all aspects of her job.

If she was properly educated and was just wrong in her attitude and discrimination, then a firing should happen. It should be pretty easy to figure out which is the case.

And I also pointed out that we, as people who need special accommodations, must follow every letter of the law. We have that responsibility. I don't know if service dogs are allowed on chairs. If not, he should have been moved to the proper location. That's why we need better certification processes with very clearly written laws that aren't so ambiguous. A manager should be able to grab the law, check it, and move to resolution with no gray area.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

well, I got a hold of corporate, and told them what happened, we will see what comes of it they are going to call me back in a few days to tell me.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

just to clarify, I do not allow Niko to ride in the cart at stores under any circumstance, that would be just rude, I let him walk, or if I'm having a bad day and need him closer to me I will hold him


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

Here, the law forbids dogs (other animals unmentioned, but probably the same for them) in locations, where food is stored or sold.

Except licensed seeing eye dogs (thanks for the word!) in service, with their white harness-handle and line, together with the handler.

(On the other hand, a friend of mine visited Canada, and walked into a shop to buy some food, and was told she was not allowed there with bare feet. She was very astonished, because, as she said, "I do wash my feet a great deal more often than I wash my shoes!" Afterwards, someone mused that this was perhaps a law against First Nation people.)


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Here, the law forbids dogs (other animals unmentioned, but probably the same for them) in locations, where food is stored or sold.
> 
> Except licensed seeing eye dogs (thanks for the word!) in service, with their white harness-handle and line, together with the handler.


Theoretically the law forbids any animal that isn't a legitimate service animal in the US too. However, we are such a litigious society, managers and business owners are often terrified to even ask the allowable questions. So you have dogs jumping on people in the produce aisle, monkeys so scared they are pooping everywhere and grasping like mad to their owners, and dogs dashing up to kids no matter how many times their owner says no (all things I have witnessed from non-service animals).


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> (On the other hand, a friend of mine visited Canada, and walked into a shop to buy some food, and was told she was not allowed there with bare feet. She was very astonished, because, as she said, "I do wash my feet a great deal more often than I wash my shoes!" Afterwards, someone mused that this was perhaps a law against First Nation people.)


It's not about clean feet. It's a safety issue. She could step on something and seriously hurt herself. I have never seen a business allow you to not wear shoes inside their building.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

people are just insane, allowing there unruly pets in public like that, I have seen it two, barking constantly in Walmart, dogs fighting in the can goods isle, I try to avoid other dogs even if I have to walk past to a basket full of unruly kids just because people dont control there dogs, the kids are usually rude, but better than the other dog attacking mine


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

No, I don't think this has anything to do with any particular group being discriminated against. There are parasites (hookworms, ringworm) that are spread by bare feet much more easily than by sneakers. There's litigation (Broken glass, Clothing pins, Etc.) concerns to be considered as well.

In the US there is a policy, No Shirt, No Shoes... No Service.

So, what do people do with their service animals that are not seeing eye dogs? Leave them at the door? I'm not criticizing, just trying to understand where the rest of the dogs are put. I would want a dog that is supposed to detect a seizure to be with the owner...


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Yeah in the US Shirt Shoes is required in most places for legal reasons.

Ive never seen a monkey on anyone in a store in the US except at a boardwalk in Daytona.

Problem is, even the sweetest nicest dog in the whole wide world messes up one time and bites some one..its a lawsuit and the animal could be destroyed.

etc..etc.etc.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

mariarose said:


> No, I don't think this has anything to do with any particular group being discriminated against. There are parasites (hookworms, ringworm) that are spread by bare feet much more easily than by sneakers. There's litigation (Broken glass, Clothing pins, Etc.) concerns to be considered as well.
> 
> In the US there is a policy, No Shirt, No Shoes... No Service.
> 
> ...


The problem isnt just Dogs, it's people starting label every animal under the sun a support or service animal. I mean, in a restaurant or grocery store especially. Fleas..ticks..mites..lices..all kinds of stuff live on animals. So there has to be some sort common sense practice to it, unfortunately in the US common sense isn't the status quo anymore.


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> people are just insane, allowing there unruly pets in public like that, I have seen it two, barking constantly in Walmart, dogs fighting in the can goods isle, I try to avoid other dogs even if I have to walk past to a basket full of unruly kids just because people dont control there dogs, the kids are usually rude, but better than the other dog attacking mine


Ive seen kids behave well worse than any service animal Ive seen. lol..running amuck..etc its horrible


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

So I'm starting to understand...


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

TandK said:


> It's not about clean feet. It's a safety issue. She could step on something and seriously hurt herself. I have never seen a business allow you to not wear shoes inside their building.


Aha, thanks! But why are then bare feet not forbidden outdoors? But, now we maybe leave the topic of the thread, sorry!


mariarose said:


> So, what do people do with their service animals that are not seeing eye dogs?


Most often left at home or in the car, at least in winter when not dangerously hot.


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

MadCatX said:


> Ive seen kids behave well worse than any service animal Ive seen. lol..running amuck..etc its horrible


yes, I agree with you, but NON service dog are all over walmart and most are not mannered, (or on leash) there are off leash dogs everywhere here, most are Queensland Healers aka Australian Cattle Dogs who here are notoriously aggressive, not to bad mouth a breed of dog, but where I live you get more dog bites (on people and other dogs) from them than all other breeds combined.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

Trollmor said:


> Aha, thanks! But why are then bare feet not forbidden outdoors? .


No one can get sued or is morally responsible if you walk down the street and get hurt. That's your own risk. It's a bad idea but the person is free to take the risk. A business owner can be sued if it happens in his business so he sets rules to prevent such issues.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

OT: I guess those Cattle Dogs, etc, are not working properly with herding any kind of animals ...


TandK said:


> No one can get sued ...


Aha, thanks! Sued, I constantly forget we are talking about the U S A ...(blush)


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Dog woud have on time to bite me and its through.


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> yes, I agree with you, but NON service dog are all over walmart and most are not mannered, (or on leash) there are off leash dogs everywhere here, most are Queensland Healers aka Australian Cattle Dogs who here are notoriously aggressive, not to bad mouth a breed of dog, but where I live you get more dog bites (on people and other dogs) from them than all other breeds combined.


This would be seriously lessened with proper laws and licensing. I can't hurt a stranger or spread disease if I park in an accessible parking spot, but my sons doctor had to prove medical necessity to the state for us to get a placard. Seems like a few very simple changes could make this issue go away. Since I have the placards, the only question allowed to us is if our son is with us since he's the one the placard is for. Service animal licensing through the state would be free too, form by the doctor with a certificate of training, then all that should ever be asked at that point is if the person in need is with the animal. Simple really.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Trollmor said:


> But why are then bare feet not forbidden outdoors?


Because no one OWNS the "outdoors"
Who would do the forbidding of what is basically a personal fashion choice?


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

IN the US unless its a city,county, state,military, or federally owned property its consider private property. My house, car, business etc. the out doors, public road ways are outdoors or public hence no individual laws.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

We need to keep it on topic.

:bonk:
Spidy had every right to sit down at Denny's and eat with her "Certified Dog". This dog is legit.
OP is not talking about the people who are taking advantage of the system, but of the wrong doing of the Denny's person who treated Spidy very unfairly.
The manager was so wrong for not listening.



We all know about the people who are taking advantage of the system. Which is wrong and should be stopped.
Also some language and wording is being thrown out there, which is not clean, please remember the rules.
I need to clean up this stuff. (embarrassed)

:bighug:


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Ouch Pam hit us with the Outline Bullet points  :haha:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:hide:


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

This is that look the goats give you when they know you have a needle, they scatter, stand on spools, climb walls.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:haha:


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

oh, you are two funny!!!


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I'm sorry that happened to you too. Is this the little dog in your pictures that I've seen along side or even on top of your beloved goat as well? What a stressful day it sounds like, I hope you get some answers as to why it happened and an apology for how the manager was rude. That's also the part that got me in your post. I get tired of rude behavior it's a pet peeve of mine!
Have a much better day tomorrow spidy1


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Thank you elvis&oliver, yes he is...and in my avatar, he is in most of my pics :inlove: I just LOVE him, he takes such good care of me!


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

lol his geught mount


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## SonRise Acres (Apr 24, 2018)

spidy1 said:


> Thank you elvis&oliver, yes he is...and in my avatar, he is in most of my pics :inlove: I just LOVE him, he takes such good care of me!
> View attachment 144565


@spidy1 Has there been any update from corporate?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

So cute.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I’ve admired that little dog in your pics he’s adorable!


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## spidy1 (Jan 9, 2014)

TandK said:


> @spidy1 Has there been any update from corporate?


not yet, they sead 3-5 bisness days


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