# I'm not sure how to build muscle..



## FFApride

Last year I used to walk my goat 2 miles, but he got last place.
So this year I want to try some new techniques  Sadly there's no hills in my area....


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## Farmgirl675

We put the hay up high enough so they have to stand on their back legs to eat. We also had ours "pulling" stuff around the yard adding weight as they got stronger. What protein % it's your feed and how much are they fed?


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## FFApride

I'm not sure the protein amount, But I use Showmaster. I give them 3/4 of a pound morning and night. I have them stand their front legs on a brick when their eating. Tonight for exercise I had both of my market goats pulling a gallon of water. But one has a hard time walking, so I feel like I'm pulling her and the jug 
I also have a ramp in my pen for them to run up, If that helps.


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## Farmgirl675

I use the water jug but start with it 1/4 full until they get used to pulling it then work my way up. Does she lead well without the jug? If not get that mastered first. Im not familiar with the feed you mentioned (mine are all forage fed, no grain) your protein should be at least 16 %. Show feeds in general are designed for different aspects of the animal make sure yours it's for meat production. You won't be happy with the results if the feed is for fattening and not muscling.


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## FFApride

I will defiantly only start at 1/4. Do you have yours run with the jug? Would that help more? She isn't to great at walking, But my other one is


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## primal woman

protein, protein, protein.


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## HaleyD

I used to run my show goats when I was in FFA and did fairly well. We had a round pen at our school barns that had a smaller pen inside of it so the goats kind of had a "track" like thing to run in on the outside (not sure if that made sense) I would put my dog in the center fenced in area and put my goats in the outer fenced in area and he would run them but not be able to hurt them. If your school doesn't have something like that to offer than another thing you can do his sit on the tailgate of a truck with your goats on halter and have someone drive the truck slowly but just fast enough that they have to jog.

Keep in mind that you can't just start running them for long periods of time right away, you have to slowly work them up to it just like a jogger would do. I once saw a goat die of a heart attack because the guy who owned him never worked with him then took him on a 3 mile run one day. But I promise you running will build muscle.

Pulling is good too, just be careful you don't hut them and once again, start out light then slowly add weight. If one has a hard time walking you may want to look at her feet, they could need to be trimmed.

Showmaster is a good feed, but you should also feed supplements. One I like is called Oxy-Explosion http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=98e1d59e-3843-45a3-913a-6d787680085e It's sort of expensive but I think it really works. There are other supplements out there too, just go ask around at feed stores. And you really need to find out exactly how much you have been feeding them, then look at the feed bag and see what the correct amount is. The bag will tell you how much feed the goat should get according to it's body weight.

The brick is good, and having things for them to climb on is good too.

And yes, protein is VERY important.


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## FFApride

I wish my school offered that! I have thought of sitting on the back of our little electric cart, while my dad drives. How many miles do you suggest I do, with them also dragging the jug? my goats are both 4 months, and are atleast 45 pounds. For my one goat, I check her hooves often, She just doesn't like being pulled, she rather run back to the pen with my other goat.
And I will defiantly look into that supplement!


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## HaleyD

It was a pretty nice little tool we could use to run them! An electric cart will work good too. I never really knew how many miles I ran mine exactly, but you can just watch them and see how they do. Maybe do 1/4 mile the first day and see how they do then work your way up. I would walk them around a little bit first to warm their muscles up. 

I know how it is when they don't like being pulled, just make sure you work on that with her so she isn't putting up a fight in the show ring. I would work with each one individually too that way they don't get used to working together all the time since they most likely won't be showing together. I once had a goat who would do fine when I worked him with his buddy but whenever it was just him he would act AWFUL and just scream and fight and it cost us in showmanship


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## xymenah

I don't mean to jump in here or anything and while everyone has a right to their own opinion I would like to suggest using something other than Oxy-Explosion. Here are the ingredients.

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Meal, Corn, Soybean Oil, Coconut Oil, Fish Meal, Spray-dried Animal Plasma, Serum Globulin, Spray-dried Animal Serum, Lactose, Flax Seed, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Natural and Artificial Flavoring, Vitamin E Supplement, Dried Kelp, Salt, DL Methionine, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Riboflavin, Active Dry Yeast, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (source of Vitamin K), Thiamine Mononitrate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Choline Chloride, Lactobacillus Acidolphilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Cornstarch, Dextrose, Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, D-activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product.

They say they put "special flavoring for palatability". In my opinion if the animal won't eat it its probably not good for them unless its a wormer or something. All the rest of the stuff looks alright but anything with animal parts of any kind in my opinion does not belong inside a herbivore.


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## 20kidsonhill

3/4 of a lb morning and evening is okay for a goat that is maybe 50lbs, but As they gain weight you should be going up on your feed. For example a 75 lb kid should be eating close to 3lbs a day in feed and a 100lb wether should be eating 4 lbs total a day in a pelleted show feed. 

short bursts of running, instead of jogging long distances. You want to work them more like a sprinter than a maration runner. A toy for them to jump up and down on in their pen. I use a tub, turned upside down. If you have a little more room, something with a climbing ramp is good for them. 

A friend of mine told me the best way to exercise them is to train them to walk down a path, and then beable to let them go and have them run hard back to their pen or barn. I don't have a good set up for this at our farm. You would really need some kind of lane that is fenced in on the sides. I just have a big opened yard. But the point is you want them to run in bursts.


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## FFApride

I usually take mine out on a leash, and on the way back from our walk, they run. So i hope the running on the way back helps with muscle. For the feed, I tired giving them their normal 3/4 of a pound, but it seems neither one of them eats all the feed, they usually leave about 1/4. I tried molasses and neither one was interested. Do you think I should start mixing sweet feed with the feed they don't eat?


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## 20kidsonhill

FFApride said:


> I usually take mine out on a leash, and on the way back from our walk, they run. So i hope the running on the way back helps with muscle. For the feed, I tired giving them their normal 3/4 of a pound, but it seems neither one of them eats all the feed, they usually leave about 1/4. I tried molasses and neither one was interested. Do you think I should start mixing sweet feed with the feed they don't eat?


NO, I wouldn't. HOw much do you think they weigh? How much hay are you feeing them. Show wethers should only be fed a small handful of hay a day. We leave our left over feed sit out in their feeders and as long as they have eaten it by the next feeding we don't worry about it. They really don't eat it all in 15 minutes like a steer or a lamb would.


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## FFApride

I'd say they're both atleast 45 Ibs. My leader has me give them a small handful of alfalfa 3 times a week. My only concern about leaving it in the feeders is that one of them will go and eat all the leftovers and eat way to much feed.


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## 20kidsonhill

FFApride said:


> I'd say they're both atleast 45 Ibs. My leader has me give them a small handful of alfalfa 3 times a week. My only concern about leaving it in the feeders is that one of them will go and eat all the leftovers and eat way to much feed.


anyway you can feed them 3 times a day? That way you can get them to clean up the unused portion. But at 45 lbs, they are eating maybe just a little under what they should be a day. Most goats wont eat more than 3.5% of their body weight a day in grain. this comes out to 1.58 lbs of grain a day for your 45 lb goats. EAch.


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## Used2bmimi

Teaching her to lead nicely is important. Otherwise she is pulling against you (the wrong direction AND the wrong set of muscles). Try looping a prickly rope around her hind end and her regular halter or collar no too, so that if she refuses to lead forward you can give a tug on that butt rope. It will challenge your coordination for a while, but with that prickly encouragement and a pocket full of treats you should have her leading soon.


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## FFApride

Like kinda around her waist? I can't really picture this.. But I'm totally open to trying it! anything to get her to not fight me.


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## Used2bmimi

Let's see if I can describe it better....we do this for foals, calves etc. The butt rope is doubled so that you are holding both ends and the loop is around the hips under the tail. Not under the belly, but back to front just draped over the butt so you can bump from behind while you are in front. So, you are holding the lead with one hand ( if the animal is on your right then try using you left hand for the lead )and the butt rope in your right hand. Make it prickly so it is uncomfortable when you tug on it. You will still need to use reward based training for a goat. Start small, ask for a step with the halter, if no response bump repeatedly with the butt rope until she moves (even accidentally) reward immediately and repeat. Don't drag her forward it has to be her taking a step. She has to make the connection that she chooses to move and and gets a treat. You will be able to phase out the treat later by making her go farther for each treat. But start small now and be sure she understands that she can no longer just hang back. Good luck but feel free to ask more if you like. Hope this helps make it more clear.


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## HaleyD

If you read the ingredients on the other popular supplements for market goats they contain similar ingredients and things that come from animal parts as well, it's not only in Oxy-Explosion. It all boils down to personal preference and opinion and after trying multiple supplements on many different goats Oxy-Explosion has been one of the ones I've had better luck with and many people where I'm from swear by it. Goats are picky animals and they won't eat lots of things so the fact that they flavor it to make it more palatable doesn't bother me personally. But like I said, it's all a matter of opinion. 

The best thing you can do is go talk to your teacher and talk to older kids at your school who have had success in the past showing at the same show you are going to. And please remember (especially in the world of livestock shows) don't take all the advice people give you too seriously. You have to pick through all the information to find what works best for you. In the world of livestock shows there are so many different ways to do things and everyone has their own way of doing it and their own way of feeding. There isn't really a right or wrong answer to how it's done. It's a matter of trial and error. 

I agree with the above post that you need to increase the feed with the weight of your animal. A good habit to get into is to weigh your goats once a week and keep track of that weight in a notebook so you can track it and see how fast they are gaining and guess about how much they will weigh a show. This is good to do with any type of animal you raise. 

Running in short burst is good as well. I had a friend who would walk his goat far away from the barn (but still in sight) and let his goat run back towards it while his dad waited by the barn door to catch the goat. If you let go of them and they can see the barn they will most likely sprint to it. If your barn is in a fenced in area it will be better for your goat if you can just let go of it, that way it can run faster than it could if you were holding onto the rope. 

Since one goat is taking the other goats feed is it possible for you to separate them while you feed them?


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## GTAllen

One thing I saw was an old treadmill that had been enclosed with plywood to run goats on. It was set on incline. A goat can run fast, very fast. A high quality goat that has been on supplements, good feed, grooming, training and working out should give you good results in the show ring. Good luck.


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## futurefarmer

I hate hearing this, but a lot of it comes in genes... You can buy a goat and work ALOT him and still not be satisfied. But some things we do are putting their food up high so they have to stand on their back feet, get stuff for them to climb on (they love climbing, just don't put it where they can jump out of the pen) and feed them protein diets (purina champion drive). But with the protein you HAVE to run them or it will just turn to fat and won't be good at all.


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## Dani-1995

Don't worry about how many miles... Just get them where they are breathing heavy. If they are panting then they ran too hard. Also make sure your feeding plenty of protein. A wether not being worked needs about 12% protein but I figured out that running mine for 15minutes, 5 times a week then they'll need about 18-20% protein minimum


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## FaRmEr FrEaK

RUN....RUN....RUN, Walking burns fat and makes them lose weight so I have been told do short spurts of running/Jogging. What I do is go in there pen and chase them around in a playful way or put a halter on them and alternate between running jogging and walking. I also have been told that when they eat elevated it breaks down there topline and loin. I would also try a supplement maybe High Octane or Just try feeding a feed with lots and lots of protein just make sure you feed ammonium chloride to prevent Urinary calculi.


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## FFApride

i'm late to respond to this.. But I noticed the water jug seemed to help alittle, But now instead I just take them both out into our lot, and I sprint and they sprint after me. And I just go back and forth for a few minutes. Then I take them on a short walk.


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## AJfunnyfarm

Farmgirl675 said:


> I use the water jug but start with it 1/4 full until they get used to pulling it then work my way up. Does she lead well without the jug? If not get that mastered first. Im not familiar with the feed you mentioned (mine are all forage fed, no grain) your protein should be at least 16 %. Show feeds in general are designed for different aspects of the animal make sure yours it's for meat production. You won't be happy with the results if the feed is for fattening and not muscling.


Could you explain the milk jug a little more we raise boer goats. My sons are in 4 h and this is a trick I never heard about. Do you tie it to them like on a harness? Thanks


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## goatgirl132

Farmgirl675 said:


> I use the water jug but start with it 1/4 full until they get used to pulling it then work my way up. Does she lead well without the jug?


What exacly does the jug do? Would you just tryed it around their chest and let it drag behind them?


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## goatgirl132

FFApride said:


> i'm late to respond to this.. But I noticed the water jug seemed to help alittle, But now instead I just take them both out into our lot, and I sprint and they sprint after me. And I just go back and forth for a few minutes. Then I take them on a short walk.


What does the jug do? 
Could you get me a pic of how you set it up? I tryed it out today and miserably failed...


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## FFApride

For the water jug I had put a dog harness on my goats, a harness that went around the front of the body. Then I tied a water jug to an end of a rope and had the jug at least 3 feet behind the goat. I had the rope clipped onto the harness at the top.
The jug is going to take time and patience if you have goats that still aren't used to leading.


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## lottsagoats

I sure wouldn't give my herbivores chicken or fish meal or Spray-dried Animal Plasma, Serum Globulin, Spray-dried Animal Serum. Plasma and serum are components of blood.


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## goatgirl132

FFApride said:


> For the water jug I had put a dog harness on my goats, a harness that went around the front of the body. Then I tied a water jug to an end of a rope and had the jug at least 3 feet behind the goat. I had the rope clipped onto the harness at the top.
> The jug is going to take time and patience if you have goats that still aren't used to leading.


They walk pretty good 90% of the time.
What about clipping it to the front of the harness? Would that work too?


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