# Were to get Epinephrine ??



## CrazyAcre (Jan 7, 2010)

I need to order some Epinephrine to have on hand, I don't usually give CDT shots, but I just got a call from woman who purchased a wether from me about a month ago.
She was at the vets and the vet believes its Tetnus, I gave a tetnus antitoxin when I banded, but I guess that wasn't enough.
I am so afraid of losing a $400 or $500 goat to vaccince reactions, but this this is the final straw, I feel so aweful that they lost this goat. So everyone is getting CDT shots from now on.
But my vet will not let me purchase Epinephrine from them.

So I tried vet serv, but can't find it on their site,,, help!!


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## Mully (Jun 23, 2009)

Adrenalin (Epinephrine) is not something for the "home vet" You have to know how to use it or you can kill an animal in a flash ...be very careful and know what you are doing. This is why your vet would not sell it to you as it is a controlled substance.


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## CrazyAcre (Jan 7, 2010)

Yes, I know why they won't sell it to me, but my other vet did, but I left it out by accident, and I no longer use that vet.

Also I am extra careful, but if I don't have it, than an animal could die anyways !!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't know of anywhere else you can get it... other than a vet.... :chin:


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

It's Rx only now, thanks to all the speed freaks and tweakers out there..  Has to come from a vet.

I got a 20ml *shelf stable* vial from my vet. I thought it all had to be refigerated, but nope...really handy to have it shelf-stable, as I can just put it and a sterile pre-tipped syringe in my pocket when I'm out giving shots. I think it was like $10.

Thankfully, I've never had to use it.


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## CrazyAcre (Jan 7, 2010)

So pet Serv is no longer carrying this?? I was going to order it a couple of months ago and they had it than. 

Also there is something else you can use, but the name slips my mind, as do alot of things as I'm getting older...


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I got a shelf stable vial from VetServe back in January, I wonder why they stopped carrying it too.
I'm sorry the little guy passed, I don't blame you at all for wanting to vaccinate and to want to be prepared just in case an anaphylatic reaction occurs.
Before I got the epi....mainly due to the fact that I had to use B Comp on a kid, I had figured that I have a few of DH's "EpiPens" around as he's allergic to bee's and if I had a goat go into allergic shock I'd use DH's pen in a pinch.


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## CrazyAcre (Jan 7, 2010)

Liz,
I wonder if I am searching for the wrong technical name. For some reason I remember having a hard time finding it on Vet serv before, but found it under a different name..


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Nope..Barb you've not missed it, I can't even bring up the injectible Thiamine I got at the same time as the Epi.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

I have it and got it from my vet. I never give a shot without having a syringe with 2 cc's made up and ready . That way I figure I can guestimate the animal's weight and empty the shot down to the right dosage. I keep the syringe in the fridge with a piece of red tape around it so I don't accidentally use it for something else. When it changes color, I throw it out and make a new one. I've heard if you really need it, there won't even be time to make up the shot. 
Having said that, I've never used it and don't know anyone who has. My vet thinks I'm nuts and says in all his years of giving shots he's only had one horse go into shock one time and came out of it by itself. I'd be curious to know if any of us here have ever had a need for it. I carry an epi-pen when camping as I'm allergic to bugs. I used it once and went immediately to the hospital anyhow. If you ever had to use it on a goat a trip to the vet would be immediately called for as the reaction can come back in spades within a short time.
So, who's ever had to give it and what was your experience?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Weird -- cant get anything i ordered from them before -- sorry. Seems they have either limited our accounts or nolonger carry those types of things (BoSe, thamine, epi) very upsetting


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Vet-serve got busted for selling rx drugs. I had bought smz about 3 weeks ago and last week I went to order more and couldn't find it so I emailed them - now they can't administer any rx meds they said


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

oh bummers - thanks for letting us know


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

No problem - I ment to post something up - but with everything going on, it slipped my mind - but thank you for posting - it reminded me!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

love our government controlled world UGH


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

I was reading through this going...Bo-Se, thiamine, epi, sulfamethoxazole...how are they ordering all this without a scrip from a vet?!?!?

LOL

Now I see.. 

Really wish I'd gotten in on the action before they got busted, though. LOL


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, if you have any friends in the medical field (cough cough), they throw away expired epinephrine (and thiamine and glucose). Expired drugs don't become dangerous, they just lose some of their potency. They only have to keep a strict log of controlled substances such as narcotics. The rest gets put into a regular ole trashbag and taken out to the dump. I have albuterol that expired 3-4 years ago that still works great for a chest cold! :laugh: 
I like the epi I draw up much better than Epi pens. SQ works faster than IM in an emergency.
If you can't get epi, keep liquid benadryl on hand. It's gross, but medications can also be absorbed very quickly (almost as fast as by IV) through the intestional wall. You can give 50 mg via the rectal route using a syringe if worse comes to worse. :wink: (Works good this way for glucose as well, or syrup if you don't have glucose). I have given Valium to babies having seizures per rectum because IV access is very difficult on the wee ones who are really sick. It stops the seizures very quickly. :thumb:


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

elchivito said:


> So, who's ever had to give it and what was your experience?


I've given it to people in anaphylactic shock and with severe asthma (airway completely constricted). I administered it Sub Q and it worked within 5 to 15 seconds. With anaphylaxis I also gave benadryl with it IV (like what would happen with a goat's response to a vaccine). I never had to redose twice but just monitored on the way to the hospital. It works very well and very quickly.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

So have you actually given epi to a goat?


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

No. I have never given epi to a goat, and hope I never do. But I do keep it on hand just in case. :wink: I would expect the goat response to epi would be similar to that of a human, but maybe not. I apologize if it wasn't relevant, but thought it might help. :shrug:


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Your info was useful. I'd never thought of giving something like Benadryl in "suppository" form but it makes great sense, especially if you've got an animal who's having trouble breathing in the first place. 
I'm on a few other forums and I've asked and asked and never found anyone who's actually had to use epinephrine on a goat. Everything I've ever heard was third party at best. Somebody who knows somebody who used it, that kind of thing. I'm not saying it's not important, and I keep it ready too, but I'd sure love to hear a FIRST HAND account of how it went.
I do know that as a kid on a cow dairy farm, we vaccinated hundreds of cows twice a year and while I could be mistaken, epi was not present and never called for over many years. It makes me think that the likelihood of true anaphylactic shock from any kind of shot is almost infinitesimally small. Of course, when it happens to you and you don't have epi, none of that matters.


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## Perfect7 (Apr 19, 2010)

I hear you! I've been giving Pen G to horses for years, and vaccinating them and the dogs and never thought of anaphylaxis really being an issue. I've always had epi on hand, thinking more of human anaphylaxis or cardiac arrest of a neighbor, etc. I didn't move some to the tack room with a needled syringe on standby until I read about goats going into shock from injections, especially penicillin. Now I've become paranoid, and thought maybe it was the norm with goats. I've only had goats for two months, so not much experience to go with.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 8, 2009)

There's only person I know of who ever used Epi on a goat..

She and her partner were giving shots to their herd of Oberhaslis and she said one dropped IMMEDIATELY after the injection was given. They scrambled to draw up the Epi and proceeded to administer it to a dead goat...a dead goat which, stubbornly, remains dead to this very day.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't quite the kind of story I wanted to hear either. :help:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Runaround had a young goat suffer an anyphylatic reaction to an injection a little while ago....not sure how it turned out though.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes that was her Bambi - sibling to my angie

she gave him Tetanus Antitoxin when she disbudded him and he had a serious reaction. She gave the epi and then rushed him to the vet


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

Is she still here? I'd sure love to hear a first hand account of what happened, how the animal reacted, how long the epi took to work, how much she gave and whether sub Q or IM, what the vet did afterwards, long term effects of the epi etc. Maybe it's on an old thread that somebody could link?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

no it was years ago before TGS was started.

um she is here - she is a moderator - but she is real busy with goat stuff so if you want to get a hold of her best to email her


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

In my experience the Epi didn't do a ton. The bottle I have say's 1cc per 100lbs. It has to be refrigerated. 

I gave .2cc of Epi to a kid having an allergic reaction to Tetanus Antitoxin. His ears, and eye lids swelled up, he was screaming bloody murder and his lungs filled up with fluid, all from the Antitoxin. I gave the epi right away and then called the vet... Per the vets advise I gave 1cc of Dexamethasone(2mg/ml) after the Epi. That helped a LOT with the fluid in his lungs. 

I have also given the Epi for a reaction to CD Antitoxin. Same sort of thing. Her eyes and ears swelled up, I gave the Epi, then the Dexamethasone.


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

Did they live Ashley?


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