# Doe still thinks she's a buck



## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey everyone,

You may remember a while ago I posted about some rescued goats we brought home on the 20th of August, and one of our original goats acting like a buck towards one of the new does: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/does-acting-like-bucks-153015/

Well, we've had them just about a month now, and Fat One STILL thinks she is a buck. We had her tied to a tree in a separate paddock for a couple of weeks but Giselle learned to climb through the fence, so we decided to just let them mingle and see if they worked things out.

Now they've been together for a couple of weeks, and Fat One is relentless in her buck-yness. At first Giselle acted all flirty and encouraging, but I think she is getting well and truly sick of the constant sexual barrage. Yesterday while I was doing the evening chores outside I watched her run in circles around the pen for a good 15 minutes with Fat chasing her. The fur on top of her hips has been rubbed off. She can't even take a peaceful afternoon nap because Fat will blubber and paw her all over until she stands up again. Fat takes half hour breaks here and there throughout the day to eat but then goes right back to it. We lock her up in the goat shed at night for everyone's sanity.

Apart from being downright annoying and disgusting, the most worrying development is Fat One has started attacking Giselle sometimes when she tries to run away. Fat will hook her horns up under Giselle's back legs and sometimes lift her right up into the air.
I tried milking Giselle yesterday (which is something I've been meaning to do for ages but have been to busy to try ) and she really didn't like one of her teats being touched. It seems a bit swollen today and I think Fat pocked it with a horn.

She doesn't care for the other two goats, although occasionally she will blubber at the other rescued goat (Grace) and Grace will act disturbed and run away 

We are seriously thinking of giving Fat One away to someone. Her behaviour is really just horrible... If she could pee on herself like a real buck I swear she would, thankfully she can only stick her head under the other's pee :\ We really just want a doe that acts like a doe!

Is there anything we can do to stop her? She was born and raised here and it seems a shame to get rid of her now, but she really is annoying Giselle and us at this point. Will she ever stop? I don't want her to hurt Giselle by lifting her with her horns like that.

Has anyone else ever dealt with crazy doe that thinks she's a buck like this before? 

Regards,
Tamara


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

Have you given any thought to having Fat One checked for hermaphrodism (not sure that is even a word)? My does will act like a buck when everyone is cycling and there is no buck with them, but it is never just one doe and their behavior is not like you're describing. It lasts for a day or two, and then is over.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

If you have another goat that is safe with her and an extra pen I would remove her from Giselle's pen for Giselle's sake...I would have a vet look at the fat one...perhaps she is a he/she lol...


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

She may be a hermaphrodite, but if she is, finding out won't really help the situation, will it?

Unfortunately none of our fences are goat-proof, and Fat One is extremely determined when there is a fence between her and Giselle and she can get pretty much any fence. The only way we could stop her from getting to Giselle was by tying her, and she was pretty miserable. Plus, Giselle still likes hanging around Fat One despite everything. We only have two paddocks - one small one for sleeping in at night and the large back paddock where they graze during the day. We have 4 goats, 2 alpaca and 3 sheep and they all stick together. We would have to build a completely new, totally secure goat-proof paddock if we wanted to split the herd up and it would disrupt everyone.


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

If you can move her along - it sounds like that would be best for everyone - to give them peace from the tyrant. I have a doe that acts buckish also - 4 years old and never gotten pregnant - even though she does come into heat. She is a good nanny though and isnt that annoying. She does favor the little bucklings though - she teachs them how to be bucks. lol


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Ah, I'm glad to know someone else has experience with something like this! I wouldn't know if Fat ever goes in heat... because it's only ever been her and her sister, it was never obvious. And she's never been bred. Her lady bits all look very normal though. With her hormones going so crazy, she even seems to have developed a little udder.

It's a shame she has turned into a 'tyrant' too... she has been with us for so many years and has never done anything wrong. She and her sister don't even go through fences that often and are very quiet and tame. At 10 or so years old she is past breeding age, but I guess she would make someone a good pet, grass eater or companion animal.

We will give her some more time and see if she snaps out of it or not.


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## enchantedgoats (Jun 2, 2013)

plese read the breeding problem thread. she may very well be a hermi.do the "finger test" see how far your finger will go in. if less than an inch and a half thats the problem and since is so aggressive she should hit the the road. just my 2 cents


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## katie (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm so sorry.  that's really weird. My does sometimes act like bucks when they come into heat but never quite like that.


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## hallsthirdacrefarm (Mar 30, 2011)

That "little udder" could actually be testes up under her belly....btw. If she is a he/she...


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Eep, sorry, I have no where near enough experience or guts to do a 'finger test'! XD Apart from the fact that I have never touched any animal's private parts, I wouldn't know what to look for anyway. Since she is past the age for breeding, I don't think proof of her being a hermaphrodite really helps apart from sating curiosity anyway. If she goes to a new home, we will just have to warn them about her behaviour. She would be good for a heat-detector.

She appears to have a very normal vagina, and large teats - and like I mentioned, she has even bagged up a bit with all the hormones. She does not have any signs of having a scrotum. She does have a fairly stocky build - a bit 'manlier' than her twin sister, hence her 'Fat' nickname - but we always figured that was because of her boer blood. Her sister acts completely normal, by the way, and so did their mother.

There are several posts on Gumtree for people wanting grass eaters and companions, so I'm hoping we can find her a nice pet home. She is a good girl around humans, after all.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh, sorry, I just saw your post come through on her 'little udder'... It didn't look like that before Giselle came along, so it has definitely enlarged because of the hormones. I did test once and a teensy bit of liquid came out, it looked like milk.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

You're right, knowing if she is a he/she or not will make a difference in her behavior, but for Giselles sake, evenif they love eachother, somehting needs to be done..I have an old 12 year old Saanen who during breeding time is very pushy with the girls..when she herself is in heat she is bucky acting...We havent bred her in few years do to her age and her uterous pretty much shut down her last kidding..so breeding season we often have to pen her up to give her a time out..and the other a breather...Hubby is always saying, "just breed her !" lol but that would be her end. We took Paige in to retire for a friend..so retire she shall but it doen't make this time of year easy...lol Hopefully you can find a good pet home where Fat One can roam a a large pasture with other goats and live a happy retirement..I would be sure they dont run a buck in the pasture, breeding her for her first time at 10 will not have a good outcome, if she can even settle...best wishes


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Exactly, Happybleats... It would only help if the new owner really wanted to know. Since there is no way to 'un-hermaphrodite' her, there's nothing we can do to help anyway!

I am going to be contacting some people today. This morning I let Fat out and 5 minutes later she hooked her horn under Giselle's leg and it was stuck. If I hadn't pulled her off she might have broken Giselle's leg, it was twisting terribly  And then when I was leaving she did it again, I was too far away to help but thankfully Giselle managed to unhook her leg.
If it was just a matter of acting buckish and flirting with Giselle, we could probably just put up with her, but Giselle could really get hurt and we just can't have that


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## Smallfarmer (Jul 10, 2013)

For everyone's sake you could make the fat one less dangerous. Put something between her horns like a small stick or a fabric covering so she can't hook Gisselle's legs. And maybe having something on her head will destruct her from her buckyness.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Good idea Smallfarmer


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, time for the dunce stick.

I wonder if she has cystic ovaries throwing her hormones out of whack. Ovarian cysts are very common in older does that have never been bred.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmm, thanks so much for that tip... It might just be the problem. The only thing is, she only started acting bucky on the very day she met Giselle. Never a single sign before that day... If she had ovarian cysts, wouldn't she have acted bucky before that exact moment?
But then, maybe it's because there were no other goats apart from her sister to act bucky around.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

She is going to treat an animal she never met in a different light then her sister. After all her sister was there before the hormone misfunction and probably just tells her off in goat language if she tries. She isn't a hermie/intersexed though. She would have been all over her sister long ago if that was the case.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

I guess that theory sounds right, I just find it strange that she never showed any signs at all before the moment she met Giselle - I would think whether she had cysts or some kind of intersex problem, it would have showed up somehow earlier.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, today we got a call from a lady who would like to take her. She will go to a very nice home on 50 acres with lots of animals and an owner who takes in rescued farm animals and also runs a petting zoo, so she should get lots of attention and love  She doesn't mind the fact that Fat One is so dominant and really loved the look of her in the photos.

As much as we are very sad to see her go, we just don't feel such a dominant animal is good to have around Giselle and the others, especially considering they are delicate and have had an abusive and neglected life, they do deserve to live peacefully from now on. I would never just send Fat to any home so I'm really glad this lady offered, as she sounds like she will be able to give Fat a good home.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad you were able to resolve it. Sounds like it will be good for everyone.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, it does. She will be picked up on Tuesday. I'll be sad to see her go, but hopefully she will be happy with her new family.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh yes, and here are some photos before she goes to her new home


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

I know I'm late to this post, but if she has normal sized teats, she is not a hermie. A hermie has tiny teats.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

She does have pretty normal teats from what I can tell. But then from what I have read there is still the possibility of being a hermie, with internal problems that we can't see, or she could have some other kind of hormonal imbalance. Either way, her new owner should be picking her up tomorrow... I really hope she'll be happy in her new home!


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

As much as I hate it - I can understand why some people insist on the value of disbudding.


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, her horns have never been a problem before... And Giselle has a fine set of horns of her own, but she either refuses to beat Fat off or when she does try, Fat is generally out of reach due to always being directly behind her 

Fat is even getting a manly smell about her too because she sticks her head under the others while they pee :\


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## Noahsoak (Sep 16, 2013)

Bye bye mean girl. :angel2:


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## Tamara (Aug 29, 2013)

Nope, not yet actually! ... As it turns out, first appearances are deceiving  The woman refused to give us photos of her property and then started making up excuses like she has 5 children, her washing machine broke so she's been doing the washing, and then their ute broke down so they can't come out today, etc.... We decided to look elsewhere for a new home. We've contacted a couple of new people and are waiting to hear back from one soon.

So Fatty gets to stay a bit longer!


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