# Reasons for low milk production



## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

so i got a couple of Nigerian Dwarf goats from who appears to be a good goat breeder and has won many awards for her dairy goats, etc. One of them is a first freshener, she had kids in late January. The other one is a 4 year old doe and she had kids about 2.5 weeks ago.

i got the goats 5 days ago and the woman who i bought them from said their milk production has been lower recently because she recently switched from alfalfa to grass hay.

i have only been getting about 1 cup of milk from each of them, morning and night, for a total of about 2 cups a day from each goat. i have been offering them organic grain and they will not eat it. she said that is normal and it could take a week for them to get used to it before they eat it, so that is probably part of the reason for the lower production i'm getting. i have winter rye that is several inches tall bright green and lush, they have been eating quite a bit of that each day free choice. they are pretty much free range and are like pet dogs, so they hang close to the house and barn, but are free to roam and eat whatever they can find. they have been eating some white spruce and brown fallen leaves from last fall, as well as the newly sprouting grasses coming up (besides the rye). i've been feeding them organic alfalfa/clover/grass hay as well free choice, and on the milk stand since they won't eat the new grain.

my milking technique is not too good since this is all new to me and they have been giving me some trouble when i try to milk them. i can tell they are not comfortable, and also since they don't have the grain they normally do on the milk stand and won't eat the stuff i've been offering them, they might not be as calm for that reason.

i start by hand milking for a few squirts, then use my homemade milker, one like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goat-Sheep-...652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6293970c
they do not seem to like the syringe or my technique when i use this milker, would that cause them to hold back or produce less milk?

how big a difference would it make if they were getting the grain they need? is it absolutely necessary to feed grain to goats to get maximum milk production, how much more milk would i get if they were getting the grain they need?

also, they have not been getting the other supplements, no minerals because i'm waiting on a shipment of my organic minerals for the goats. how big difference will not having any minerals for 5 days make in their milk production?

thank


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Moving stress lowers production, grass hay is terrible for production, two strikes against you right there. They need alfalfa for good production. How did they milk where they came from? by hand? machine? I'm sure that difference hurts as well. Is it possible for you to hand milk them? They might like that better. I would give them all the alfalfa they want, do they have loose minerals? Also give lots of patience and calm milking practice, hope it gets better for you.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes. You need grain for maximum milk production. Also getting the technique will help. I would also offer alfalfa pellets.


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## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

lovinglife said:


> Moving stress lowers production, grass hay is terrible for production, two strikes against you right there. They need alfalfa for good production. How did they milk where they came from? by hand? machine? I'm sure that difference hurts as well. Is it possible for you to hand milk them? They might like that better. I would give them all the alfalfa they want, do they have loose minerals? Also give lots of patience and calm milking practice, hope it gets better for you.


thanks, that helps a lot. previous owner did use a Maggidan's milker sometimes, so that is similar to what i'm using with the syringe teat cup. lately she has been hand milking them though since their teats were getting dry/chapped during the cold dry winter air. i'm sure that is a big reason why the first freshener who kidded in January is giving me fits.

i added the info on the minerals to my first post a couple minutes after i initially posted the rest, so you might have missed that. as i said, i haven't been giving the minerals, kelp, yeast, and digestive utilization absorption supplement the last 5 days since i'm waiting on the shipment yet. they will be getting all that as soon as the shipment gets in, will that make a big difference?

also, they had a touch of lice at the previous owners place she said it was due to letting their bedding get built up deeper since she had does that were due to kid in January and February and it was very cold, so she was doing all she could to keep them warmer if the kids were born and she was right there when it happened. she pulls the kids immediately and bottle feeds, keeping them in a warmer building to raise the kids

i don't know what a healthy goat really looks like, but they seem to have shaggy dull coats and i've read that they should be shiny? are they normally shaggy now since they shed their winter coats? either way, they seem kind of dull, what would that be a sign of, lacking certain nutrients? they also seem skinny, but again, not sure what to expect there

thanks


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

If you could get pictures up we could get a better idea about body condition and possible reasons for low production.


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## nigies4ever (Sep 19, 2012)

Calcium is super important for milkers, so I agree with others..add some alfalfa pellets or hay. Also, has this doe been tested for CAE? It's unlikely that's the cause of her lack of production, but just trying to cover all the bases.


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## canyontrailgoats (Jan 4, 2014)

Are they drinking their new water? If not that'll decrease milk production. You can encourage drinking by adding a little tang or Gatorade to their buckets. They definitely need alfalfa and grain, I'm sure they'll eat well once they're settled in. Probios daily will help their rumens adjust to new feed. 

For milking, try massaging their udders with a warm washcloth for a few minutes before milking. The warm wetness is similar to a kid's mouth and will encourage let-down.


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## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

nigies4ever said:


> Calcium is super important for milkers, so I agree with others..add some alfalfa pellets or hay. Also, has this doe been tested for CAE? It's unlikely that's the cause of her lack of production, but just trying to cover all the bases.





canyontrailgoats said:


> Are they drinking their new water? If not that'll decrease milk production. You can encourage drinking by adding a little tang or Gatorade to their buckets. They definitely need alfalfa and grain, I'm sure they'll eat well once they're settled in. Probios daily will help their rumens adjust to new feed.
> 
> For milking, try massaging their udders with a warm washcloth for a few minutes before milking. The warm wetness is similar to a kid's mouth and will encourage let-down.


thanks to both of you! i'm learning so much! i will be getting them tested next week for CAE and Jones blood tests through the vet clinic here they will send them into the lab. the prior owner had tested regularly for years and never had any issues but the most recent tests i think were fall of 2013 so not exactly up to date, but she removes the kids at birth and bottle feeds to help prevent disease transmission

on the goats bodies, they are really sunk in right in front of the hips, i will try to get some pictures posted here soon

i have seen them drink some water, but they don't seem to be consuming too much, how much does a 60-70 pound nigerian goat drink per day normally? temps have been in the 40s, 50s until yesterday we were in the 70s!

good idea with the warm wash cloth i may give that a try!

thanks again


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## kari1052 (Dec 4, 2013)

My girls drink a lot more if i give them warm water


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

Just moving will cause a huge drop. You will not really know how much they will milk till you freshen them on your place next time.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I would get them on a premium-supreme quality alfalfa and a good grain to maximize production. You also need to give it some time since rehoming is stressful, you will almost definitely see a decrease in production until they get more settled in.


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## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

KW Farms said:


> I would get them on a premium-supreme quality alfalfa and a good grain to maximize production. You also need to give it some time since rehoming is stressful, you will almost definitely see a decrease in production until they get more settled in.





Hollowdweller said:


> Just moving will cause a huge drop. You will not really know how much they will milk till you freshen them on your place next time.


Thanks for the recent replies here. That brings up a very good point and a question. As I explained in my first couple of posts in this thread, my goats had lice when I got them from the previous owner (I had no idea what to look for or what a healthy goat looked like), also they were really shook up by the move, and looking back now I know how terrible my milking technique was the first few weeks. Also, I didn't have the best feed and minerals for them the first week or two like I do now. Considering all that, I understand that those things would really reduce their milk production.

Now, my question is, which Hollowdweller touched on in the post quoted above, will a goat normally get back to her maximum milk production within a few weeks, after they recovered from the lice, after they felt comfortable in their new home, after I learned how to properly milk, and after they have the proper feed and minerals? Those things all happened within the first month or so, and they never increased milk production at all. Or, in your experience or knowledge on this subject, will a goat normally not regain her milk production until the next time she freshens at the new home? I've had some goat breeders say that my goats' milk production should have increased after all those problems were solved, but others as Hollowdweller indicated, say that they won't get back to their normal or maximum milk production until I freshen them again at my place. Hollowdweller, it sounds like you might have had personal experience with this in your goats, if that is the case can you please share a little more about what you experienced?

Its been about 3 months now since I became a first time goat owner and milker, and wow I have learned so much and my milking technique has improved dramatically. I am so thankful for this website and everyone who shares their knowledge on here.

At first I was using a homemade hand vaccum pump with the plastic tubing and mason jar. I never dreamed I would ever be able to hand milk a goat, but after a few weeks, just from starting and ending each milking with a few squirts of milk by hand, I thought I would give hand milking a try and I haven't looked back. Hand milking is so much easier and faster now, so to any beginners out there, give it time and you will get it. I never dreamed I'd be able to milk a goat by hand, and especially that I'd be able to do it faster than with one of those milking machines.

thanks!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

With everything that happened, there is a good chance you won't get milk production back up this time around. You can try going to 3 or 4 times per day milking and feeding a LOT of quality alfalfa and even using herbs to increase production but no guarantee it will work. I'm sure they will do well next time.


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## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

ksalvagno said:


> With everything that happened, there is a good chance you won't get milk production back up this time around. You can try going to 3 or 4 times per day milking and feeding a LOT of quality alfalfa and even using herbs to increase production but no guarantee it will work. I'm sure they will do well next time.


thanks, I was kind of giving up on them and thinking about selling them and getting some goats with known hi milk production in their ancestry, but I know I need to give them another chance to prove themselves. Anyone else with experience in this, please post I'd love to hear about.

thanks


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Even a high producer will drop milk production under all those circumstances.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I agree with Karen.


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## bornagain62511 (Mar 3, 2015)

ksalvagno said:


> Even a high producer will drop milk production under all those circumstances.





KW Farms said:


> I agree with Karen.


Yes, it makes perfect sense that they would drop their production with all they had going on after they had freshened.

I just wasn't sure if I should expect them to regain any of their loss in production during this current freshening, after I have all the negative issues fixed, but it sounds like everyone is in agreement that most likely a doe will not regain that loss in production during the current freshening.

If anyone else has had experience with this please share. The two Nigerians I'm talking about have only been milking about 3/4 to 1 cup, twice daily since I bought them in late March. I got a third doe who was due to kid in 4 weeks at the time I got her to my place in early May. She is a first freshener and had one kid on June 1 and I've been separating the kid at night and milking her first thing in the morning and getting about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 cups from her. It will be interesting to see how much I get from her after the kid is weened.

thanks very much!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

The problem is how long it took you to fix all the problems. It doesn't take long for their bodies to tell them to quit making milk.


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