# Dog attack on sheep, worried about goat kids



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

So I've gotten some great advice on the sheep.

But now I'm thinking... if the dog got into the sheep area he can probably get into the goat area. My goats are horned and some are downright aggressive towards dogs. Plus I have a gun.

BUT that being said, what if the dog gets in there in the wee hours of the morning and kills my kids?

I have kids born day before yesterday, yesterday and today.

Should I kennel them inside over night until I can kill this dog? I have a medical procedure tomorrow but am planning on picking up a trap from the humane society on Friday.

Are the kids too young to kennel up for the night? I'm really stressing out. I have no way to put all the moms and their kids in pens. I was doing herd births this year and its been GREAT, till today. The does are all being awesome with each other and the various kids (nicer to the kids than if they were born separate in pens).


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Boy. That is a tough decision. I don't think it would be good to separate from mom now. But then you sure don't want a dog to get to them.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I had to leave Poppys kids out there, she's not passed her placenta all the way yet so she needs them to nurse. But she's in the shelter closest to the house where my dog will bark if he sees another dog. In that same shelter I put each set of twins into separate crates. The moms can see and hear them, but the kids are more protected than just out loose. Again, near a spot where my dog will bark if he senses another dog. I have my rifle by the back door. I'm 50 feet away from the kids.


----------



## NicoleV (Dec 12, 2015)

Is the weather good enough to camp out near them?


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Get a hearing blanket on and keep your window cracked so you can hear your dog barking  ugh what a mess for you, I'm so sorry!


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds like time to get an LGD Dayna....but for the immediate danger, I hope you can shoot it!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

My neighbor is a horse rescue lady and she is friends with the feral donkey folks. She said I need a young jenny, that they are aggressive towards dogs they don't know. I might call them. A whole different type of animal seems a lot to learn though.


----------



## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Is there anyway to to make a night pen, so it can be closed in at night? Maybe get pallets or hog panels. That way, dogs can't get in. Although, hopefully they will not dig under it to get to them either.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Did the dog go over or under? If under I would get the hottest hot fence charger you can find and put a strand on the out side to keep it out. I did that for my dog since she loves babies but will get beat up by moms over it and that keeps her out. When I go out I'll get the name of it, that charger is really really mean!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I've been talking on facebook with neighbors I didn't know i had. lol There is a HUGE problem with roving ex hunting dogs (pig hunting grab dogs) in the streets above my house. People are telling me hot wire does not keep them out, tall fencing does not keep them out. So we're discussing some dog hunting. Horrible as it sounds. They have tried trapping them and the dogs are too savvy. 

thousands and thousands of dollars in livestock has been taken by these dogs. I guess they are packing up and having a good time. Probably no current owner. (feral dogs are a real problem here) 

Shooting them solves the immediate problem but not the long term one. 

I have a few choices.

1. Livestock guardian of some kind
2. Try better fencing and hope it works
3. Rehome the livestock

I had no idea this issue was so huge in our area. I wish I had been better prepared for feral dogs. I just assumed a fence would keep them out.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow! So they have a total kill drive. Hmmm this is a crap situation. If it's a pack then the LGD are going to have their hands full if they get in. And no dog hunting is not a terrible thing in this case  
I'm really not sure what to suggest in this case other then try a better fence and a few LGDs. I know up the road there was a problem with a pack of pit bulls but rumor has it the livestock owners took care of the issue with poison :/


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

My husband and I discussed poison. It will be a last resort. I feel sick to my stomach even thinking about it.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

If hot wire is not working, I suspect it is user error and not anything to do with the determination of the wild dogs. User error can be related to poor grounding, poor insulation, shorts that cause the fence to lose power along the line, not enough wires and/or wires poorly placed so that dogs can go over or under with no touch or only a brief one. No predator is going to actually fight with a good electric fence to get at livestock--it's either not hot enough or they can go over/under without much contact.

I've found that a combination of electric net fence and a LGD are great for keeping predators away from our property. We have coyotes and bears. Depending on how large and aggressive your feral dogs are and whether they roam in packs, one or two LGD's may not be able to handle the problem without also electrifying your fence. Dogs and fences have a symbiotic relationship: the dogs protect the fence and the fence protects the dogs. Each by itself is often not enough, but together they make a pretty tough-to-beat combination.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I have to disagree with the determination of the dogs. There are some that want to kill so badly nothing will stop them. We had one that was after one of our cows, it was bleeding from head to toe from our long horn hooking it and it still wouldn't get off that cow. It was so focused my dad got 10 feet away from it and he never noticed him and my dad shot him. There's no way being that bloody that that dog got hurt less then a hot fence. 
I know I'm not much of a fan of poison either


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

It gets down to doing what you have to do. A single guardian animal is no match for a pack.


----------



## cmany (Apr 22, 2012)

Get the donkey...when they start a honking...that is part of what drives the predator away....

Our gelding DeRay...will actually round up the goats...sometimes, sending them to the stall, sometimes, rounding them up in a circle...and then decides what to do...

In the stall he goes and investigates...

In a circle he watches...and when I witnessed that it was with the bear we had here...I assumed, what he was going to do was charge through, sending goats in every direction...while he charged the bear if it attacked...but my dogs, who are not LGD - but are protective of our yard and my kids...had run it up a tree, and it slinked away...

Donkey's know what to do...and they can bond with a herd member pretty quick...as well as with kids...My guy took to my kids incredibly quick...and is in general very protective of our property....we test him by sneaking up...


----------



## Crazy4Goats (Jul 18, 2015)

My 5 week old kids got killed by two German shepherds at 6:00 am. You should DEFINITELY lock them up!


----------



## Crazy4Goats (Jul 18, 2015)

toth boer goats said:


> Is there anyway to to make a night pen, so it can be closed in at night? Maybe get pallets or hog panels. That way, dogs can't get in. Although, hopefully they will not dig under it to get to them either.


I have a "just for night pen". I lock up Cedar and Aspen every night. I got it from Costco. $399. Works very well! ️️️️️ I give it 5 stars!


----------



## Steampunked (Mar 23, 2015)

Is there a council group there that deals with this kind of thing? Here there is, but I don't know about the US. They often have access to specific bait stations which can be used to cut down on collateral damage from poisoning.

There are also 'no-kill' traps that are baited with something tasty - that way you can make sure you aren't accidentally hitting a wandering idiot pup.

Be very careful of pig dogs because they can be very dangerous - I was attacked by such a dog as a child and despite the fact that it was damaging its teeth (it had bitten my bike pedal and foot), and breaking them, it kept biting.

The owner got angry at me because his dog was injured from biting metal...so for all we know the source of the dogs could also be an idiot human.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Steampunked said:


> Is there a council group there that deals with this kind of thing? Here there is, but I don't know about the US. They often have access to specific bait stations which can be used to cut down on collateral damage from poisoning.
> 
> There are also 'no-kill' traps that are baited with something tasty - that way you can make sure you aren't accidentally hitting a wandering idiot pup.
> 
> ...


yeah these are definitely pig dogs. Hunters go out, sometimes a dog goes missing, and they pack up.

We don't really have much in the way of a council. We have a neighborhood association. They suck, they take the mindset that I should try harder to keep the dogs out... Which I WILL DO, but darnit I have a right to be safe on my property. Folks have tried traps, the dogs won't go in them.

My husband went out dog hunting this morning. Didn't find the dog but did find another deceased sheep.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't have any legal way to help you out in regards of catching the dog, but I hope you get him. When you do, I would have that dogs owner identified and make them pay you for your losses. 
Sorry this is happening. 

May or may not work, but what about a bait pile to lure it in? I know he's after live animals, but maybe put a chunk of meat out where someone can lay in wait and shoot him. Only humane way I can think of.


----------



## Crazy4Goats (Jul 18, 2015)

I don't think it was a pig dog, but around here we have tons of evil dogs. Knocked down my disabled cousin, then grandpa came out and saved him. Who knows what would have happened if it wasn't for grandpa. My cousin has a hard time getting up. Other cousin got trampled by a dog, and got several punchers in the side, then someone shoo d it away. My kids(Nigerian Dwarf) got murdered by a couple dogs. Sadly animal control only put down one. The other one is loose at night. Every night. I have to lock up my goats at night. We use a Costco dog kennel. If it's meant to keep dogs in, it'll definitely keep them out. Works very well. We are bringing our horse home today. It'll give an extra set of safety. (My horse is very aggressive and kicks other animals a lot.) my horse and goats will be living together, but my goats are in a pen inside of my horses pen.


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dayna said:


> yeah these are definitely pig dogs. Hunters go out, sometimes a dog goes missing, and they pack up.
> 
> We don't really have much in the way of a council. We have a neighborhood association. They suck, they take the mindset that I should try harder to keep the dogs out... Which I WILL DO, but darnit I have a right to be safe on my property. Folks have tried traps, the dogs won't go in them.
> 
> My husband went out dog hunting this morning. Didn't find the dog but did find another deceased sheep.


Ugh sounds like where I live!! That's what they said about a lady that had a mountain lion come in and get her goats, just she did put sides and a door on he pole barn so once the cat got the door off 9 out of 11 were killed. Clueless people and like I told my community what happens when they run out of livestock and go after kids? 
You have such a mess on your hands and I'm so very sorry. At least with a wild animal you know it's going to come back every night and you can get them


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Well as someone who trains dogs and has sold many for game hunting, it could very well be a poorly trained pig dog. 
Where are the main bites? Are the animals they kill uneaten?


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Un eaten. They go for the neck and belly. Pig hunting with dogs is huge here


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

It seems to be a grabber dog. Here the hunting dogs track the pig, and grab it and pin in down till the hunter can get in with a knife and cut the throat.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yep, not a wild animal for sure. Is there a hunting club around that the pig hunters might go to? Call the club and ask if anyone is missing their dog and tell them he's killing livestock. 

I can't think of anything other than baiting it in and waiting.


----------



## wndngrvr (Dec 10, 2011)

So sorry for all your predator problems. It is a hard situation. Years ago when I lived in Colorado the men got together and went out hunting roaming dogs early am and pm. Neighbors who looked after their dogs were prewarned about the hunt. We had packs roaming at night. But I had a dog kill from a neighbor's pet golden retriever. 
We live with cougars close now and that is a worry. Lots of lights on at night and NiteGuard's flashing all around the pen area. 
I wouldn't think a dog would pass hot wire fencing outside of the tighter fence for goats. I am going to hunt for and hopefully will find a solar motion detector light -I think that would work on outside of pen. 
Our property is well fenced so neighbors are all well warned that dogs on our property are targets. They don't like me because of it but they keep their dogs home.


----------



## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

My suggestion would be to take a live animal out and tie it and wait nearby with a gun. 

Im sorry your going threw this. My worst fear is a pack of dogs. I wouldn't mess around with live traps. Maybe try live bait in a secure cage and foot traps. I dont know what's legal there so....


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I got an email tonight from the vet who does the donkey rescue and rehome here on the Big Island. Hes going to call me this week to chat.

My hubby is getting cold feet, but I think by reducing the herd I made the deal too sweet to not take. lol

http://www.hawaiihorserescue.com/donkey.html


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

So you told DH you'd reduce the goats to get the donkey? Wise choice of words...lol...we all know how goat math works out in the long run :lol:


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

NyGoatMom said:


> So you told DH you'd reduce the goats to get the donkey? Wise choice of words...lol...we all know how goat math works out in the long run :lol:


Well yes, with all those kids just born reducing the herd shall be easy. :stars::stars::stars::stars:


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Remember to choose your donkey wisely. You dont want to add to the problem. May sound funny but look for gentle eyes...i have several donkeys and know which one i would never leave with the goats and which one i would train for it. Dogs will also split up..lead the donkey off while the others get the goat/sheep. Very sorry you are dealing with this


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

happybleats said:


> Remember to choose your donkey wisely. You dont want to add to the problem. May sound funny but look for gentle eyes...i have several donkeys and know which one i would never leave with the goats and which one i would train for it. Dogs will also split up..lead the donkey off while the others get the goat/sheep. Very sorry you are dealing with this


I am going to have to leave picking out of the donkey to the veterinarian who does the rescue (he's also a large livestock vet) and my neighbor who is a horse gal (who also has a donkey).

I don't know enough about donkeys to do a good job.


----------



## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Dayna said:


> Well yes, with all those kids just born reducing the herd shall be easy. :stars::stars::stars::stars:


:lol: :ROFL: :lol: :ROFL:


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Jessica84 said:


> I have to disagree with the determination of the dogs. There are some that want to kill so badly nothing will stop them. We had one that was after one of our cows, it was bleeding from head to toe from our long horn hooking it and it still wouldn't get off that cow. It was so focused my dad got 10 feet away from it and he never noticed him and my dad shot him. There's no way being that bloody that that dog got hurt less then a hot fence.
> I know I'm not much of a fan of poison either


^ Yes, I've seen this too. But I disagree about a good hot fence not deterring even such dogs as this. The difference is the taste of blood. Once a predator gets its teeth into an animal, instinct takes over and it's as if the nerves stop working (I had a Labrador who was like that with porcupines and cats--the only dog I ever knew who would kill a porcupine). If a determined dog managed to grab its prey through a hot fence, the shock would likely not deter him at that point either. Luckily that's not how hot fences are supposed to work. A hot fence is designed to prevent predators from getting close enough to grab in the first place, before the taste of blood works them into a frenzy of pure instinct and adrenaline.

However, because hot fences are not fail proof, I highly recommend using a livestock guardian as well. I'm glad you're getting a donkey, Dayna. I hope you get a good one. One thing for sure... you'll know when to go check on your herd. Donkeys are LOUD!!!


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I a


> m going to have to leave picking out of the donkey to the veterinarian who does the rescue (he's also a large livestock vet) and my neighbor who is a horse gal (who also has a donkey).
> 
> I don't know enough about donkeys to do a good job.


well i'm sure you would do fine, but its good to have help picking just the right one....I love my donkeys...


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

happybleats said:


> I a
> 
> well i'm sure you would do fine, but its good to have help picking just the right one....I love my donkeys...


I have a LOT to learn. Though my neighbor who does the horse rescue and has a donkey as well told me she couldn't keep her goats alive because here in Hawaii goats are way way harder than horses and donkeys! I am always intimidated by the care of these large creatures.

She can hook me up with a good farrier, and I can contact the vet who does the adoption for teeth floating and other planned in advance maintenance medical stuff. However, like with goats, there is no good livestock vet in my area.

I've been spending a LOT of time reading.


----------



## nannysrus (Jun 21, 2014)

Hot fences work better on coyotes than dogs. Dogs run around without caution and with go threw a hot fence before they even know what hit them. Verses a coyote who uses it's nose when headed into new territory. They end up getting zapped on the nose and move on. A dog already half way past the hot wire thinks nothing of it.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Donkeys are pretty easy keepers. I find once they know you love them...they are all yours...even my very wild one now lays her head in my arms...its very humbling... My old lady stood for a farrier...her very first trim and did awesome amazing....she is over 40 years old. we chose a barefoot farrier...she is into natural care and hoof corrections ect...it was a good investment of time and money to learn a little more on caring for the donkeys..


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

happybleats said:


> Donkeys are pretty easy keepers. I find once they know you love them...they are all yours...even my very wild one now lays her head in my arms...its very humbling... My old lady stood for a farrier...her very first trim and did awesome amazing....she is over 40 years old. we chose a barefoot farrier...she is into natural care and hoof corrections ect...it was a good investment of time and money to learn a little more on caring for the donkeys..


My friend who has a friend in Volcano Village who is that kind of farrier! He said she is very into natural feet and slight corrections, etc.

I'll give her a call.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

nannysrus said:


> Hot fences work better on coyotes than dogs. Dogs run around without caution and with go threw a hot fence before they even know what hit them. Verses a coyote who uses it's nose when headed into new territory. They end up getting zapped on the nose and move on. A dog already half way past the hot wire thinks nothing of it.


This is why I recommend electric netting. A dog can't go through it without entangling itself and zapping its entire body repeatedly. Electric netting has it's downsides, but for keeping dogs out it's about the best kind of fence there is, provided you make sure it's good and hot.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Damfino said:


> This is why I recommend electric netting. A dog can't go through it without entangling itself and zapping its entire body repeatedly. Electric netting has it's downsides, but for keeping dogs out it's about the best kind of fence there is, provided you make sure it's good and hot.


I have 2900 feet of fencing give or take 20 feet, I can't afford the electric netting. It was hard enough to afford to fence it at $200/roll for 330 feet of fencing and $10 a pole every 6 to 8 feet feet.


----------



## lilaalil (Sep 5, 2014)

Gosh, that stinks. Hope it all works out somehow!


----------



## Steampunked (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm afraid I'd trust the netting over a single hot wire - I've seen aggressive dogs just go through the wire like a shot. Or even go stupid and bite it. And this was the hotwire set to keep an amorous bull in his paddock - my neighbours and I used to throw each other on this stuff and fire each other across the grass. (1)

The netting sounds like a more sure deal. Ugh, I don't know what I'd do - here I can go to council and animal control.

(1) We weren't what you'd call _friends_...I left the bigger one stuck at a low point with his legs on either side, sinking into the mud once...


----------



## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Damfino said:


> This is why I recommend electric netting. A dog can't go through it without entangling itself and zapping its entire body repeatedly. Electric netting has it's downsides, but for keeping dogs out it's about the best kind of fence there is, provided you make sure it's good and hot.


Ok I can see where netting would be better. I agree with you now lol. 
I agree the netting is expensive but I wonder if you could make it and it would be cheaper. Basically all it is is wire/ or the tape and it goes from side to side and up and down. The wire isn't all that expensive. But I guess it depends how much time you have on your hands too lol
I also wonder if you got welded wire and those same plastic poles for hot fence that you just step on them to go in the ground if that would work. You would just need it from touching the ground


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

I have 40 acres and could no way afford to fence all of it with electric netting either! I bought four 100' lengths and I move it around the property a few times a year. I've since bought four more rolls so I can fence off larger areas or make multiple pens. My biggest problem is in winter when snow load shorts it out so I can't turn it on. This is where having an LGD comes into play. I love how "LGD" works for dogs or donkeys. =) 

If you already have a fairly dog-proof fence in place, adding a low wire just above the ground should deter them from digging under. The hardest thing will be keeping it weed-free. 

Keeping dogs from jumping over is more difficult when using single-strand wire because the dog must be grounded in order to feel a shock, and the wire must also be positioned in such a way that the dog will get entangled and pushed back to the side he came from instead of being able to sail right over. I've seen it done but have never set up a fence this way myself. Usually it works best if you have an unelectrified wire mesh fence to start, and then the metal fence acts as a ground rod when the dog's hind paws touch it as he tries to scramble over. If you have a wooden fence, then you'd have to string grounding wires in addition to hot ones. A proper set-up really needs to be fairly precise, which is why I suspect that your neighbors' electric fences aren't deterring the dogs. 

It would make your place look like a prison, but stringing a few strands of outward-facing barbed wire along the top of your fence should keep dogs from being able to leap and scramble over. LGD's are awesome at keeping predators away, but if you have feral dogs roaming in packs, your donkey may need help from an improved fence set-up. Good luck!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Damfino said:


> I have 40 acres and could no way afford to fence all of it with electric netting either! I bought four 100' lengths and I move it around the property a few times a year. I've since bought four more rolls so I can fence off larger areas or make multiple pens. My biggest problem is in winter when snow load shorts it out so I can't turn it on. This is where having an LGD comes into play. I love how "LGD" works for dogs or donkeys. =)
> 
> If you already have a fairly dog-proof fence in place, adding a low wire just above the ground should deter them from digging under. The hardest thing will be keeping it weed-free.
> 
> ...


Yeah from what I've heard from other electric users here keeping the jungle away from the wire is the hugest problem, that and grounding here is an issue on lava. Stuff grows here like no where else on the planet. CRAZY growth. In the summer when its raining every night and warm our lawn has to be mowed twice a week to keep it under control.

Barbed wire though, is an easy thing to put up. I will talk to hubby about grabbing a roll this weekend.

Tucker, my dog, barked all night near the goat area. So I was out there half the night sitting with the goats. When I was inside I was having nightmares. So something has to be done. I'm exhausted.


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

I was thinking we could barb wire the bottom and the top? I know around here they barb wire the bottom to keep pigs out.


----------



## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah, if weeds are a major issue I wouldn't do a hot wire along the bottom of the fence--too high maintenance and too much risk of failure. Make sure the barbed wire you put along the top sits away from the fence at an outward angle, and use several strands. Otherwise a dog will be mostly over it before it "bites" him and it won't do any good. 

Unfortunately, I doubt barbed wire along the bottom of the fence will deter a digger. But one solution I've seen is to put down a strip of mesh wire on the ground around the outside perimeter of your pen. If you use a 4' high roll, you can fasten it 1'-2' high around the outside of your existing fence, then step on it to bend it at right angles so it sits flat on the ground. Staple it firmly to the ground at frequent intervals both at the 90* angle where it meets the fence and at the outer edge. A no-dig fence like this should work very well in a high vegetation area because the plant growth will bury it quickly and hold it down better than the staples, which work loose over time. The biggest enemy would be rust, so you'd have to buy high quality stuff that will last for many years underground. 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's scary when things are after our critters at night! I've been there before myself!


----------



## Dayna (Aug 16, 2012)

Damfino said:


> Yeah, if weeds are a major issue I wouldn't do a hot wire along the bottom of the fence--too high maintenance and too much risk of failure. Make sure the barbed wire you put along the top sits away from the fence at an outward angle, and use several strands. Otherwise a dog will be mostly over it before it "bites" him and it won't do any good.
> 
> Unfortunately, I doubt barbed wire along the bottom of the fence will deter a digger. But one solution I've seen is to put down a strip of mesh wire on the ground around the outside perimeter of your pen. If you use a 4' high roll, you can fasten it 1'-2' high around the outside of your existing fence, then step on it to bend it at right angles so it sits flat on the ground. Staple it firmly to the ground at frequent intervals both at the 90* angle where it meets the fence and at the outer edge. A no-dig fence like this should work very well in a high vegetation area because the plant growth will bury it quickly and hold it down better than the staples, which work loose over time. The biggest enemy would be rust, so you'd have to buy high quality stuff that will last for many years underground.
> 
> I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's scary when things are after our critters at night! I've been there before myself!


sadly I've learned that the hard way about the rust. Those green T posts last about 2 years and a couple months. I've since been upgrading to galvanized, twice as much, but I am sure hoping they last longer than 4 years....


----------

