# When should I start to worry?



## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Got 2 market wethers (well, bucklings at the moment) and they are 3 weeks old and were on the dam. One has taken to the bottle quite easily, but I only got about 8-10 oz in the other today, all day. I hope tomorrow will go better, but what if it doesn't? He's seems to be doing ok, he is much smaller than his brother and it is obvious to me that he's been knocked off the dam before, as he just gives up when his brother walks over. I'm concerned about blood sugar dropping and dehydration . . .


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

PS: we got about 5 oz in him at around 5pm, and when we went to feed him at 10 he was perky, but he just used his perkyness to fight the bottle . . .


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I put a couple of smaller kids on the bottle at about that age last spring. Sometimes, you just have to wait till he gets a little hungry, before he get smart and takes the bottle. I'm hoping by now he's a "smart baby" and is taking it. Try to get them to eat some grain too. Are they with other goats? Good luck!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Nope, not smart enough. Obviously hungry, chewing on hay and everything BUT the bottle. But he acts terrified when I try to feed him. I have not gotten anything in him for over 12 hrs . . .


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

what milk is he getting...if you are giving replacer...switch to whole cows milk. Its easier to digest. Make sure its warm enough


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

He is getting last years goat milk that I froze.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I was trying pan feeding this morning, all it did was wear him out with the fight of it. I have bottle fed ton of animals in my life, and this guy takes the cake. Seems healthy except he just wont eat!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

The milk should be fine. Is he pooping? getting any feed?


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I have seen him poo once. I've tried for 2 hrs this morning, got maybe an oz in him. Letting him rest. will try again soon.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I gave them a bit of hay which he chews on, not sure how much is going down the hatch, though. I was afraid to give him grain becasue of the lack of fluid getting in him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

No..your doing great...3 weeks is a but young for feed...his should food should be milk..nibbling on hay is fine. How does his tummy feel? with out milk in it ..it should feel very soft and squishy....if its hard and slightly distended I would think constipation... if so he will need an enema..I use oil and warm water....works great. you can also give a bit of oil down the hatch to help get things moving..if he is not pooping he will act hungry but will not eat..and his gut will become toxic..


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I was wondering if he might be constipated, but he's only had goat milk so I didn't think that would happen???


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

How do you give an enema?


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I wouldn't say his tummy feels hard or distended, when I did see him poo though it did take him a while to get it out.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

an enema wont hurt him..although he will act like it does lol...I put the baby over my lap with him bum toward the tub ( I can always bleach it later lol) Be gentle and insert the tip of a syringe filled with oil and warm water..gentle push fluid in...wait a minute..message ,,,if nothing add a bit more..go slow..it can take a bit of time


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

even with goats milk he can become constipated...perhaps he is getting too much at once..?? some babies just need the help for a while..


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I've only had him since late Friday night, so I don't know about him getting too much. I do know that he is several pounds lighter than his brother, and they were on the Dam. The brother is EASY to feed, was EASY to get on the bottle, chews hay and chews grain . . . The little dude has been an absolute pain lol! Brother is already looking at us like the food gods of his universe, but little dude gets scared! Then everything is a huge fight. Then he wears out, you finally get him to suck on the bottle and he is so lazy about it he doesn't get much of anything down him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hum...poor little guy...what breed is he? about how much does he weigh. Try an enema and see if that doesnt help him. lets see if we cant at least be sure he isn't clogged up ...we have two Nubian doelings who are almost four weeks old they are small do to being triplets...we feed them 8 oz a feeding four times a day..to kind of give you an idea...they are about 8-10 pounds..like I said kind of tiny...


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

This guy is 3 wks old, and only about 6 pounds. He is boer/lamancha cross. Just saw him pee. Tried the enema, but don't know how much to shove up there? It was actually no big deal, but I need a better idea of how much . . .


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

PS: I did take a temp. it was normal at 101.5


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

I watched a friend teach a reluctant baby the other day. Try holding him on your lap without feeding him. Have a bottle at hand in a bowl of warm water so it doesn't cool off while you are waiting for him to calm down. Just wait and keep him comfy until he calms down. My friend uses a human bottle BTW. She says the little guys sometimes need to try different shapes until they find one that works. Anyway, when he is fairly calm lay a towel over his head with just his nose sticking out and scratch/stroke his little bottom like mom would if he was nursing. Then, carefully, trying not to hold on to his head if possible put the nipple to his lips. If you need to position his head use your body on one side and your gently cupped hand on the other side. I know this doesn't always work, but its worth a try! Good luck!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks, we've tried all the nipples, baby bottle, lamb and pritchard. I will try the other stuff.

They are constipated. Just saw the bigger one try to go and he couldn't get it out. I am dosing with mineral oil.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Gave both 3cc of mineral oil down the throat and did my best on the enema. they both poo'd out a little.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

hopefully that will get things moving....if not they may need another : ) good job.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Gosh, its almost feed time again and I've done nothing but try to feed all day lol! I finally syringed some in his mouth (slowely with a small syringe) about 3 oz. Spilled less that way then with the bottle! I am seriously considering getting my own boer/market breeding stock . . . I am so tired of handling problems that come from other farms.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

bottle babies are hard...some learn quickly others can be very stubborn...how I teach one to take the bottle is I lay them over my lap..back feet tucked..front feet straight out...hold his chin with one hand and gently coax the nipple into his mouth from the side..once you have it in.hold it there...allow warm milk to drip and feel that he is swallowing. You may have the trouble since he is constipated..as eager as one might want to eat.if he is backed up he wont..patients is needed with some.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

It just took me another hour to get 3 oz in him again. Again I had to syringe feed it. It like he has no suck reflex. I get the nipple in there and he just holds it. 

I gave him some selenium/vit E gel for the no suck reflex. I have bottle raised most of my herd, I have bottle raised rabbits and kittens etc . . . i have neve had one like this!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I wonder if there might be something wrong with his suck reflex?? Selenium vit e should help with that. He's going to challenge your reserve  Hows his and his brothers poop issue going?


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm not sure. How often should you have poo out of a 3 wk old? I just can't remember, I've never had goats with that issue before.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

well they pee a whole lot more than poop lol....I would feel their tummy..make sure its soft. too soft, kind of sloshy means not enough dinner...too hard could mean constipation..also other signs are hunched up..not eating.. lethargic...you might have a problem child there..hopefully he grows out of it..they sure can bring joy and frustration at the same time!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I just want him to live . . . I hate doing this and then losing them, I went through all that with a rescue 2 years ago and we lost him anyway (totally different issues, but same frustrations)

He doesn't have any real signs of being sick beyond not eating/no suck. His eyes and nose are clear, his butt clean, breathing normal, and he is small but his body condition is OK. Belly not hard or distended, but he does hunch a bit, hoping that will ease with getting him regular. I'm going to dose him with mineral oil again. 

I might have to take them to work with me tomorrow, Oh I hope not! the kids won't get a blasted thing done on their schoolwork! lol!


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Welp, dosed again with mineral oil. Wasn't seeing any poo since earlier. we will see how he eats again in a little while. Might be giving another enema if I don't see things happening soon.


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

We had a buck that we got on the bottle at 8 weeks. We waited too long to try so your already ahead of the game vs where we were. One advantage for us is that they are eatting grass and hay at 8 weeks. So anyway, what we did was stood up and put him between my legs with basically my ankles holding him behind his hips tightly. We had to pry his mouth open and stick the bottle in and basically hold his mouth closed and every few seconds squeezed it to force him. If he screamed I stopped as I didnt want him to aspirate anything. It took 3 days of doing this and all the sudden the third day he decided it was not a bad thing and just went to town like a champ as if he had done it every day. he drinks his bottle faster than any of the others now! Also, be sure you do have it warm enough. They really dont like it cold and even cool when they are getting used to it will refuse it.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragment  I think i at least initially have it warm enough. It takes a while to feed him so we warm it up a couple different times, but it doesn't seem to make a difference. 

I kinda wonder if they are getting a cold. The bigger one that DOES eat I've heard sneeze a couple times now. I wonder if there is something like a sore throat or something going on . . . that would not cause a fever. The one I've heard sneeze eats just fine, it only took like 10 min to get him on the bottle. lol! Love those food driven ones.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

your doing great, keeping on top of his poo issue : ) ....I know its frustrating but like kristinatucker said...one day he will just eat and it will be sweet reward...just bring him tomorrow and make him a science project lol..


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Yeah, I think at this point its a forgone conclusion that he is coming to work.

One thing I am hearing is a bit of teeth ginding from both of them. they don't do it all the time, but when chewing on hay or just standing there . . . Or when I'm forcing bottles and syringes down the ones throat . . .


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

that could just be them feeling their teeth but usually its gut pain..if they are constipated that can cause them to grind their teeth too....Milk of magnesium is said to help with constipation...Ill look that up and see what I can find..


here it is

Milk of Magnesia - Over-the-counter product that is useful for constipation and toxicity reactions, including Bloat, Overeating Disease, and Floppy Kid Syndrome. Use as oral drench at a rate of 15 cc per 60 lbs. body weight every four to six hours until the feces goes from normal to clumpy then back to normal 'pills.' Always keep the animal hydrated with ReSorb electrolytes when using Milk of Magnesia or other laxatives. Don't ever be without this very helpful yet common product.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Good to know! Thanks. I knew it could be a sign of pain, but wasn't sure what pain.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, he has a vet appointment today, there has been no change at all after dosing with mineral oil, giving him and enama, dosing selenium, feeding him, keeping him inside and warm and treating him for lice . . . NO change at all.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good call....hopefully your vet can find whats going on and help him..: ) let us know how it goes..


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Didn't really get a diagnosis of exact problem, but he has developed a fever and is in pain. the vet gave us antibiotics and betamine and is hoping that when he starts to feel better he will eat. He did say that if he just will NOT take a bottle then give him all the hay and other food sources he will take (he will graze, eat hay and nibble grain, but doesn't wan tthe bottle) Poor baby. I really hope he pulls through.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

ugh.Im sorry. I just went through this with my little bottle baby...hes doing great now..I used Nuflor and Banamine...it works great together. He has Upper respiratory infection. I sure hope he gets on the bottle...it is the best food for him....I hope he does well for you...you sure have been great with him : )


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks Happybleats  I just had him outside and his brother was running and hopping all over the place and he was trying


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats great news...: ) maybe this has been building and finally got him down..the antibiotics and Banamine will get him on his feet..


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## adriHart (Nov 1, 2012)

happybleats said:


> hum...poor little guy...what breed is he? about how much does he weigh. Try an enema and see if that doesnt help him. lets see if we cant at least be sure he isn't clogged up ...we have two Nubian doelings who are almost four weeks old they are small do to being triplets...we feed them 8 oz a feeding four times a day..to kind of give you an idea...they are about 8-10 pounds..like I said kind of tiny...


Well I was looking here to try and figure out if I was over feeding and I think I am. My 3 and a Half week old nubian is getting about 16 to 20 ounces 3 * a day but I thought that might be too infrequent so sometimes I change that to 4 or 5 Times depending on if I see him a lot of hey or grass or plants, or if he didn't finish the first time I'll go out four hours later and give the rest to him . He was a triplet also in about 5 pounds when I brought him home at 1 week old now I would say he is more like 12 lbs . he does not seem overly fat or bloated just growing healthy except for right after his bottle his belly is big.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

They say to shoot for 12% body weight. I try to do 15% and that has worked for us with no issues. At 3 weeks I do 3 bottles a day. (Right now I am doing 4 times becasue I can get so little into him!) Morning, afternoon and bedtime . . . He should be eating a little hay and at least nibbling on a bit of grain . . .


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

adrihart..I would def. decrease the amount..a baby will eat himself sick if you let them..belly should not pooch out nor be sunken in. ...a firm straight tummy is what I like to see..a little poochy right after a bottle isnt too bad...sometimes they can get poochy with grass and hay..but truly at that age they are not getting enough grass for food...they will guilt you into giving more but this could end up back firing..My two bottle baby nubians got very ill...I went out of town and my kids fed them too much milk....Reba did well after one day of treatment but Natasha was nearly dead..several days of treatment was given to get her back on track...They can only digest so much at one time...after a while the milk builds up and causes toxicity ...less is best..: ) ...we need to adjust to the need of our babies..some need more while others need less.....go by your gut feeling and they way babies gut looks the way he acts...the minute you see him hunched..lathargic, grinding teeth..not pooping or pooping trotts..then get him on CD Antitoxin... Hope this helps


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## adriHart (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you for letting me know happybleats, I figured he might make himself sick if I let him. he is such a glutton. Devon, How is your baby doing now after his adventures outside to play? Sorry i hijacked the thread earlier.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Has anyone tested for Cocci on this baby? I would give B complex to help the appitite and get a fecal done quickly. Cocci doesn't always show scours.


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I am starting to think that this baby may have been kicked off mom and self weaned. He doesn't want milk at all. No interest. Got really interested in some electrolytes with dextrose and he sucked some down a couple times today where as when I offer milk he just doesn't want it. He is eating hay constantly, and his fever was gone when I took a temp earlier. He was a huge weanie when I gave him his antibiotic shot this morning lol! We have a dog water bottle on the crate and I saw him drink off it once today (I work full time but am flexible to come feed him) I am trying to get small amounts of ANY liquid in him more often. So far he is marginally better today, more energy, eating more and actually sucked 2xs for just a little bit.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

keeping him hydrated is good...will he perhaps drink milk from the dog water bottle? It might help to get that nutrients in him..maybe once he learns to suck his electros from a bottle he will take the milk...I have heard of kids weening themselves...hopefully this little man wil get to feeling well soon..sounds like he is on the mend..Goathiker asked a good question...has he been tested for Cocci??


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

He's too young for cocci, but I have great news! Just got him to take 6oz of MILK from his bottle!!! The antibiotics must be helping, and getting him the fluids and sugar high from the dextrose, too.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yahoooooo!! That is awesome..: ) 6 oz wow....im so happy...Im getting goose bumps : ) I was so worried he wasn't getting enough nutrients: )


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Me too! I know he munches on solids, but nothing is better for him that that milk!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Amen...Makes the heart sing...: ) 
and just for reference...3 weeks is prime for cocci... so I would keep a watch on that..but with them being your first goats..there might not being in cocci eggs for them to nibble up from the grass..but a fecal a few times a year would be good ...

I sure hope he continues to improve..


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh, they aren't my first, I have dairy goats. I have delt with cocci almost everytime I get a goat from another farm . . . Anyway, He doesn't have cocci, 100% sure on that.  

He ate again this morning! 7 oz!! It was much less of a battle to get the bottle in his mouth, but he still hasn't taken the bottle on his own, I have to get it in his mouth. But not complaining . . . He's sucking it down once its in there!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

soon he will be grabbing the bottle from you : ) glad he is eating..it took my lamancha doe about a week or so to take the bottle on her own with out me having it sticking in there..he'll get it


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

I think we may be out of the woods! He ate a full meal this afternoon with gusto and begged for more  He is still eating his hay and a bit of grain as well. He doesn't yet know how to get the milk out of the bottle on his own lol! But it is getting easier to shove it in his mouth, and he latches on much more quickly. 

Tonight's feeding I am "handing him over" to the boys. I will help him latch on but then handing the bottle to the boy who claims him.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats awesome...Im so happy for him..you did a great job!! its always hard to hand the reins over but I think in this case it will be a thrill...then you can sit back and watch..maybe take a few pic (wink wink..)


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, he was claimed first by the boy who had first dibbs  I think he has gotten to all of us . . .  He was dubbed with the name Loyal tonight, and his brother is Wiggles lol! I'll get pics soon. They are 3/4 Boer and 1/4 Lamancha and the ears are just hilarious! Loyal has wattles  Our first goat with wattles . . .


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

Little Loyal took his bottle all by himself tonight!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

yahoo...: ) always good news...he is feeling good then? you did a great job goat mommy : ) sure should love to see pix : )


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## Devin (Feb 6, 2011)

LOL! I will try to get some tomorrow when the boys are feeding them. My hands might actually be free . . . He is feeling a LOT better, his whole demeanor has improved, not just eating. He's getting bouncy and playful and really going after that bottle too!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

there are those goose bumps again...I love a happy ending..: ) keep up the good work


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## adriHart (Nov 1, 2012)

That is such good news. I'm so happy to hear it. with my horrible last couple months it's nice to see something work out good in the end. Way to stick with it and save that baby's life.


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## adriHart (Nov 1, 2012)

I just realized you said he is a market wether. does that mean what I think it does? ( I am NOT being condescending this is a legitimate question. I am new to goats and farm/country living in general so i don't know much) are you going to sell him off to be butchered. what was the point in saving him. If you are indeed going to butcher him, wouldn't it have been more cost efficient and less work to just get a different 1 to start with?


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