# Why medicated feed?



## potentialfarm

I feel a bit numb having to ask this, and please understand that the question is coming from someone that has always been on a "mission" to do everything "all natural".

What is the purpose of constantly feeding goats medicated feed??? I was recently told that it is to prevent cocci, yet people tell me that they have lost "this kid & that kid" to cocci & when I ask what they feed, they always tell me they feed the medicated stuff. 
Have I just been lucky that we haven't had a cocci problem yet (in 4 years), while having never administered chemical wormers or medicated feed? 
I don't even give my day-old poultry medicated chick starter & haven't had a problem.

Having just purchased my first Boers (now have a 7 month old buckling, just got a doe last week), and knowing they were being fed medicated ~ I want to feed them correctly, yet that poop is going to eventually end up in my vegetable gardens...could be meat in the family freezer...a Boer/Nubian cross would be milk/cheese/butter production (as are my PB Nubian does) Isn't (at least in part) the point of raising your own food to know that it isn't being fed hormones/antibiotics/pesticides?

Are meat goats somehow more susceptible to cocci, so they need the medicated, or is it just one of those things where everyone else is doing it that way, so go with it?!? Could the constant medicated feed that the moms are getting be lowering the overall immune system of the herd, so the kids are more susceptible?

If any of our animals ever need antibiotics or chemical wormers, they will get them. I'm not that much of a fanatic that I would actually jeopardize their health, I'm just (still) trying to figure all this out... :scratch: Thank you for any input!

Robin


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## GotmygoatMTJ

*Could the constant medicated feed that the moms are getting be lowering the overall immune system of the herd, so the kids are more susceptible?*

That could very much be possible actually. Its kind of like using the same wormer over and over again, it loses efficiency as worms build resistance to it. So why not medicated feed?

I used to feed medicated feed, but I honestly don't understand the use of it either. I've heard you can't feed medicated feed to milking goats, and I've also heard theres nothing wrong with it. :shrug:

Even when I was feeding medicated feed I had problems with Coccidia. When I didnt feed medicated feed I had a problem with Coccidia.

Coccidia is in all goats. Adult goats have it but have built up immunity against it. Kids get it when they somehow get into their systems from the adult goats. Now for you not having a problem with it for 4 years, wow. I don't know what to say about it. Just :hi5:


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## liz

I tried medicated feed at one point and ended up with 1 kid with a cocci overload....I NEVER had a cocci problem until I bought Chief in 07....he had a bout with it 2 weeks after I brought him home....the next Spring when kids started to arrive, I had 1 out of 9 get an overload at 7 weeks old, my vet said that all it takes is one to cause a problem and that medicated feed doesn't work because kids don't eat enough of it to do any good...if they're susceptible to get an overload, they will regardless.
Keeping areas where the kids are cleaned regularly and keeping feeders free of poop helps with keeping the risk level down.
My vet did suggest adding a coccidistat to my does minerals at 3 months into their pregnancy's...to keep them from shedding the oocysts, thus keeping the kids "safe"....but because there is a withdrawal time on milk and I do start milking at 3 weeks fresh, this was not an option for me. Kids from 3 weeks of age and older are at the "prime" age for cocci IF they are going to get it. Because I have had 3 goats with it here, I feel it is in my kids best interest to do prevention...and I do it with individual doses so that I know each kid is getting what it needs...It takes just minutes to dose them and I cuddle them daily so time to do it isn't an issue.

I think that with meat goats...most "meat goat" feeds contain the coccidistat because they need to pack on weight and if the risk of cocci presents a problem with weight gain, theres $ lost when those kids go to sale.

I don't see any reason why you can't transition your new goats to your feed management, if you should however see that they are not adjusting well, then I would go with what they had been fed before you got them.


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## goathiker

Medicated feed does have it's place. Not neccesarily in your backyard, it's main purpose is to grow out feedlot animals as quickly as possible while also minimalizing losses. Used as it's intended, there is no way an adult animal would be eating it. They would have long been proccessed.
Deccoxx works much the same as Corid and Rumensin works like Sulmet. Both are dosed fairly light in the food. Feedlots feed out as much concentrate as the animal will eat giving just enough hay to prevent bloat. In order for the prevention to work, the animal must be eating at least 1 lb. for every 50 lbs. of animal and a lot more would be preferable. 
People who use this to grow out their kids usually creepfeed it free choice starting at 2 weeks old. These animals are usually not given hay or browse until they are older. 
Because of the way these are dosed, they will not cure cocci. They may supress it for a while. If an animal isn't getting other means of cocci prevention before he is eating enough of the food, he can pick it up and still have a break through case.
That said, I don't use it. I have a prefered way of raising my kids and unlimited concentrate isn't part of it.


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## freedomstarfarm

I use it mixed with a few other things. I don't use it to prevent cocci, my goats don't eat enough that it would be effective. I like the ratio it provides and it includes AC to help prevent UC.


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## luvmyherd

I personally would never give my goats medicated feed. For the reasons you mentioned the main one being I want to know I am not eating pharmaceuticals. Might as well by my meat in plastic wrap.
I do start chicks on it but have been planning to stop that practice. The only starter we can get is medicated though. Do not even know where I can find it unmedicated or if I should just use chick scratch. Mine are hen raised so mama helps them break up their food.
I too use medication that is indicated and wait the appropriate times for milking and eating. But to feed it non-stop, no, not here.


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## freedomstarfarm

my goats only get grain if they are breeding or growing. those in milk do not get the medicated. it is ok for moms feeding their kids but not intended for does people milk and consume the milk. I also would not feed it to goats I intended to consume but mine are not for that purpose. I actually wish I was feeding organic non GMO feed but right now the supply of that is so limited the cost is way too high.


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## potentialfarm

Thank you so much for your replies...when I purchased my first kids, I was afraid that I was going to do something wrong...I am still worrying about that. 

I do give Cider Vinegar in the water~ boys seem to all pee just fine (especially since it's rut season). :roll: 

goathiker, I completely agree with your outlook! 

Liz, what you said worries me. I'm wondering if after keeping a very small closed herd, I could have brought a strain of it here by bringing in new goats, so need to take precautions.

I do feel that our "barn" situation has helped in regards to parasite prevention. The goats have a shed that is on skids & gets moved to new ground every year. 
I almost bought a bag of the 18% meat grower (medicated) because that's what my new (supposed to be) pregnant doe had been eating. I obviously choked on the idea & really appreciate everyone's input! 

Thank you!
~Robin


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## liz

Robin... the wierd thing about this with my herd is the fact that after 7 years, with only 1 goat ever being "new" before that, when I bought Chief...he was a bottle baby and as far as I saw, his breeder didn't have the kids anywhere near where the adult goats were...so I have to assume that because of the separation, Chief never had the chance to build an immunity and the stress of being weaned and being brought to a new home is what caused him to overload....anyhow, it was even "wierder" that only 1 kid out of the 9 the following year got an overload. 

I would just watch and see and treat if you do need to, otherwise, keep doing as you are...sunshine is one way to keep numbers low...by moving your goats around, you aren't allowing the ground to become "infested". 
Another weapon against internal bugs...learn to do fecals, I've found this to be a good way for prevention too....I do fecals on each goat at least every 2 months, with kids I try and do them every 3 weeks and a final one before they leave just to know whats "normal" for my goats...I've only ever seen 1 cocci in a fecal and that was with Chief 2 months ago, low numbers are ok but I do watch to be sure no one looks like they are needing treatment. With a fecal, I know when and if I need to treat or just "wait and see"


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## potentialfarm

Thank you so much liz, that's great advice! I do need to learn to do fecal checks - have read soooo much about it, now need to finally get a microscope. Think that's been part of my worries. The herbal wormers & fresh ground have done well so far, but I always have the "what if" in the back of my mind. 
That just may be the perfect homeschool science project for my 7th grader... we can learn together! :greengrin:


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## Dreamchaser

I use medicated feed on goats that are not thriving. They overall look OK but are not growing or putting on weight. I will worm them first, but if that does not do the trick I will use the medicated feed. That usually seems to do the trick.


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## liz

potentialfarm said:


> Thank you so much liz, that's great advice! I do need to learn to do fecal checks - have read soooo much about it, now need to finally get a microscope. Think that's been part of my worries. The herbal wormers & fresh ground have done well so far, but I always have the "what if" in the back of my mind.
> That just may be the perfect homeschool science project for my 7th grader... we can learn together! :greengrin:


 :thumbup: Sounds like it will be a great project! Learn together...and it's not only really neat to see things you normally couldn't but it gives you peace of mind to know that what you have been doing is working :wink:


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## GoatLovingGal

I always feed the kids medicated grain until the age of 4 months then switch to nonmedicated, I too prefer all organic however I want the kids to have a good jump start, most I purchase I have to bottle feed so they didn't receive moms milk and get the boost there. Some people do feed momma medicated while nursing so the kids receive a dose through the milk, but never while carrying. mediated feed is not intended for adult goats unless ill.


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## MsScamp

Do you realize that this thread is 3 years old?


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## lottsagoats1

Some threads are great to have ressurected every now and again just for the information they provide!

I use cocci prevention on my dairy kids. I thought I never had a problem with cocci. Then, one of Ag mentors suggested I try the cocci prevention...just once. I did. The kids that were on the prevention were twice the size as the ones that were not. Cocci damages the intestinal lining, which causes scar tissue. Most cocci does not cause the scouring and such, that is when it is out of control.

I have been using the prevention since then. My kids are twice the size that they used to...same breeding and feed. I use the Baycox medication until they are eating enough medicated feed and then they just get the feed until their first fall. My adults do not get the medicated feed.

I don't like loading my animals up with medications, but I believe there is a time and place for everything. If doing the prevention while they are kids will save them a life time of problems from the scarring damage, I will do it.


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## Trees of Life

Does anyone know: if my doe has had a little of the kid's starter grain (with coccidiastat), is her milk then unsafe to drink? :-(


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## ksalvagno

Look up the milk withdraw for the medication.


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## Davon

If you find any good milk withdrawal information for it let me know. I missed it! I feed all of my goats medicated feed until a couple of weeks before they are due. My theory is that I am keeping the coccidia levels down so that the kids won't be exposed to as much. The medication is a fairly low dose, so I wouldn't worry about her getting into it once unless you are selling the milk. I also wouldn't be comfortable feeding it on a daily basis for milk I was drinking.


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## MadCatX

Great info as our vet told us to field our buckling medicated specifically due to Urinary Tract.


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## ksalvagno

The medication in feed is for coccidia, not UC. You would need to see if it also includes ammonium chloride.


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## MadCatX

Thanks Karen, I will definitely check the label.


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