# Advice on Traumatic emergency C-Section birth with rejected kid



## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice. On Sunday our first time pygmy doe was in labor with only one hoof coming out. Baby was clearly breeched. When we reached in the only thing you could grab was the one leg, nothing else. We called the vet. She determined it was C-Section to hopefully save at least mom or baby otherwise they would both die. So, with only a local nerve block and my husband to hold her down, they went with the C-section in the barn stall. Baby is alive, mom rejected it so he is now our first bottle baby. Mom is "recovering". I have a few questions if someone could advice i'd be so greatful
1. Mom is very lethargic, obviously in pain, under a heat lamp and was shivering up until this morning when i put a blanket on her. She nibbles at grain and drink a little bit but is not up and moving. She is on banamine and an antibiotic. Any suggestions on how to help her?
2. Baby is taking to the bottle pretty well. He eats then wobbles around a few min then goes to sleep. Should i be waking him to feed him regularly? We got as much colostrum out of the mom as we could and gave it to baby via syringe in the mouth. Last night he ate at 5pm and not again until 4am.
3. He is a little boogery, im assuming this is leftover gunk from being pulled out of mom. When should that clear up?
4. Do i need to get him a bottle baby friend? We have other does with kids in the barn but i dont see any of the moms accepting him. I have no clue how to reintroduce him to the herd and i dont want him to be lonely.

Any advice please!! Thank you!


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

@happybleats @GoofyGoat @Lil Boogie


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I have no experience with goat c-section but from experience with my own; it was 4 days before I really felt like getting up and moving around.
I would offer her any good leaves you may have growing around. Make sure she stays hydrated.
I would wake a baby going that long between bottles. The only baby I had in the house woke me every 2 hours for 2 ounces.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I’m so sorry y‘all had a rough kidding. I’d give baby 0.25-0.5cc’s of vitamin b complex sub q. And make sure he’s eating every 4 hours for the next week then go to every 6 hours. Even if it means waking him up. Watch for pneumonia, he could have aspirated amniotic fluids. You could get him a buddy, I’d keep trying to get him on mom, once she feels better she might still care for him.

For mom, make sure she’s moving around, give vitamin b complex to her as well. I’d also give her probios in between doses of the antibiotic. Fresh browse and good hay are very helpful. I’d also give her warm water with molasses or electrolytes to keep her energy up as well as plain water.
Hang in there, it’s going to take work getting everyone well, but you’re doing great!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

We had one c section here years ago. Shivering can be from fever or pain or both. Keep a close eye onnher temperature. What antibiotics is she on? Dose and frequency? How much banamine? Is it given sub Q? 
B complex as a support. 
I would do as mentioned and offer safe browse food..like leaves, vines, Pine and cedar. Fr3sh water with a little splash of molasses for energy. Get her up moving at least 4 times a day. Bring baby to her often. Let her smell his back end then let them be together a bit as long as she's not overly mean. Don't leave unsupervised as if she stands and unstable can fall on him. Just trying to make that bond and maybe when she is well she will want him. Also keep an eye in her udder, if her milk comes in can be too full ect. 

Get baby's temp asap. Let's see how that is. Make sure he's pooping and peeing. After 24 hours weigh him and feed 10% of his body weight in oz. So not tempted to over feed.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Get a weight on baby - and feed every 4 hours - very warm milk - if you don’t have goat milk , use cows milk. Only feed a total in a 24 hour period 10% of body weight to begin with. So if baby weighs 5 # - that is 5x16 = 80 x .10 = 8 ounces total for the day . So if you feed 6x that is about 1.4 ounces at a time to start. After a couple of days I go to 4x per day increasing the amount as he is gaining. 
For the doe, take her temp- make sure she is warm enough - she may need further support. I would do a drench if alfalfa slurry and some carrot juice and a bit of molasses for energy. Leave out as much hay, leave , Pine ( not cedar) needles or branches as she will eat. The first couple of days can be rough. If your baby thrives, you can definitely think about getting a buddy.


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> I’m so sorry y‘all had a rough kidding. I’d give baby 0.25-0.5cc’s of vitamin b complex sub q. And make sure he’s eating every 4 hours for the next week then go to every 6 hours. Even if it means waking him up. Watch for pneumonia, he could have aspirated amniotic fluids. You could get him a buddy, I’d keep trying to get him on mom, once she feels better she might still care for him.
> 
> For mom, make sure she’s moving around, give vitamin b complex to her as well. I’d also give her probios in between doses of the antibiotic. Fresh browse and good hay are very helpful. I’d also give her warm water with molasses or electrolytes to keep her energy up as well as plain water.
> Hang in there, it’s going to take work getting everyone well, but you’re doing great!


i will get everyone vitamin b ASAP! Thank you. I'll bring him down there to her too. maybe it will help boost her up


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## Nubian-Shepherdess (Aug 7, 2021)

My goat had to have a c section last Wednesday. It was a rough ordeal for her the first two days. She would barley eat, a little grain and a few leaves was all for the first two days. She spent most of the first day groaning. She did drink some and I got her up a couple of times to walk. 
I know what a draining event this is to you, and I fully know the feeling of concern over he lack of appetite and energy, but it may just take some time. My mom had to remind me of that often.
Like the others said, keep liquids before her and b vitamins. 
Your goat is lucky to have you!


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

goatblessings said:


> Get a weight on baby - and feed every 4 hours - very warm milk - if you don’t have goat milk , use cows milk. Only feed a total in a 24 hour period 10% of body weight to begin with. So if baby weighs 5 # - that is 5x16 = 80 x .10 = 8 ounces total for the day . So if you feed 6x that is about 1.4 ounces at a time to start. After a couple of days I go to 4x per day increasing the amount as he is gaining.
> For the doe, take her temp- make sure she is warm enough - she may need further support. I would do a drench if alfalfa slurry and some carrot juice and a bit of molasses for energy. Leave out as much hay, leave , Pine ( not cedar) needles or branches as she will eat. The first couple of days can be rough. If your baby thrives, you can definitely think about getting a buddy.


we have him on milk replacer. He had her colostrum up through yesterday and fresh milk from one of the other moms we have. But is on straight replacer now. With cows milk you mean unpasteurized? or Vitamin D? i brought that up to the vet and she said she wasnt too sure about that.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

If you can get goats milk that's best... my vet doesn't recommend cows milk either!  but it works great for a lot of people, it's the red cap/ whole milk that you buy from the store!

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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

happybleats said:


> We had one c section here years ago. Shivering can be from fever or pain or both. Keep a close eye onnher temperature. What antibiotics is she on? Dose and frequency? How much banamine? Is it given sub Q?
> B complex as a support.
> I would do as mentioned and offer safe browse food..like leaves, vines, Pine and cedar. Fr3sh water with a little splash of molasses for energy. Get her up moving at least 4 times a day. Bring baby to her often. Let her smell his back end then let them be together a bit as long as she's not overly mean. Don't leave unsupervised as if she stands and unstable can fall on him. Just trying to make that bond and maybe when she is well she will want him. Also keep an eye in her udder, if her milk comes in can be too full ect.
> 
> Get baby's temp asap. Let's see how that is. Make sure he's pooping and peeing. After 24 hours weigh him and feed 10% of his body weight in oz. So not tempted to over feed.


Baby is definitely pooping and peeing. Mom is on less than 1 ml of banamine. She herself is probably only 40lbs... shes a very tiny goat. Probably shouldnt have let her get breed. The antibiotic i'd have to look. Its supposed to go in her vein every 24hrs (today is last dose). We couldnt find the vein last night (or went through it) so we gave it in the muscle, but the vet said if we had to do it in the muscle it would be very painful for her.  I just couldnt bring myself to keep trying for that vein. I will check her udder and try to get her up, she's not getting up at all. I put a blanket over her and shes under her heat lamp she seems to not be shaking as much. I put hay infront of her and she started right away at it, but she's laying down and eating, not standing for it.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

I personally had one goat c-section before but attended many more back when I was a tech. She will be very sore especially since she was in labor before the c-section (it's easier on those induced before in active labor). I agree with the warm molasses water for mom. Also if you have powdered vitamin c give a dessert spoon once a day. Still socialize the kid with mom under supervision as once she is feeling better there is a chance she may take him back but only if she knows it is her kid. I only have a few more minutes on lunch break at work but will try to add more later when I can sit down and breath for a minute. Hang in there.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kate H said:


> we have him on milk replacer. He had her colostrum up through yesterday and fresh milk from one of the other moms we have. But is on straight replacer now. With cows milk you mean unpasteurized? or Vitamin D? i brought that up to the vet and she said she wasnt too sure about that.


Get baby onto cows milk ASAP. I'm not too sure it matters if it's unpasteurized or not but if it were me, I'd do pasteurized. He needs to be off the milk replacer ASAP before it causes him problems. All my bottle babies I transition from moms milk to cows milk and have never had an issue. Make sure the transition is slow.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Kate H said:


> The antibiotic i'd have to look. Its supposed to go in her vein every 24hrs


Find the name of what that is. Antibiotics can and should be given Sub q with goats. I personally would never recommend doing IV. Goats have a faster metabolism then any other ruminate animal so IM or IV is normally not needed. SUB Q is less painful. 
Banamine is normally once a day for 3 days but in her case I wouldnt hesitate to do an extra day. At 40# I would do 1/2 cc sub q. 
You're doing great. Hang in there


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Oh and make sure mama has clean bedding at all times.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Yes! Mom’s milk or Regular whole milk from the grocery stores is SO much better than replacer. I’ve raised quite a few bottle babies on it and they do great. Make sure it’s warmed up to 101-103*F to feed. Keep checking baby’s temp too. Do not feed him if his temp is below 101*F as he‘ll not be able to digest it. Put a pinch of baking soda in the first bottle of the day and probios in the last.

Did he get a pea sized dollop of selenium vitamin e gel at birth? Did you dip his umbilical cord in iodine? Also, you can squeeze aa extra vitamin e gel cap into his mouth for a good start.
Keep up the great work!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

You have been given great advice. Sorry I could not be of more help but I was a bit sleep stupid still when I saw this this morning. You will find that in general, people here know more about goat health than the vast majority of veterinarians. I would use whole, pasteurized milk before a milk replacer. Any time a goat is off; Bcomplex is my first line of defense.

If you do not have electrolytes handy you can make some using;

one quart water
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
2 tablespoons honey or white syrup

Heat just until all ingredients dissolve


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

luvmyherd said:


> You have been given great advice. Sorry I could not be of more help but I was a bit sleep stupid still when I saw this this morning. You will find that in general, people here know more about goat health than the vast majority of veterinarians. I would use whole, pasteurized milk before a milk replacer. Any time a goat is off; Bcomplex is my first line of defense.
> 
> If you do not have electrolytes handy you can make some using;
> 
> ...


Thank you. just got baby some vit b and just mixed in a bit of whole milk with the replacer, i'll start weaing him onto cows milk. Do you think Pedeyalite will work? I have to run to town to get molassas.


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## Lil Boogie (Mar 24, 2021)

Kate H said:


> Thank you. just got baby some vit b and just mixed in a bit of whole milk with the replacer, i'll start weaing him onto cows milk. Do you think Pedeyalite will work? I have to run to town to get molassas.


I'd grab normal goat electrolytes. I've used Pedialyte and not had good success.


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## K.B. (Mar 15, 2021)

Make sure you don't give electrolytes within 2 hours of milk it can cause a reaction in their tummy

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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

Ok so here is the afternoon Update. 
Mom is significantly better!! No more shaking, got up to eat grain and hay, even ran out of the stall. I got a dose of Vitamin B in her SQ. I feel much better about her now
Baby on the other hand... Not much of an apatite. Took temp, he is at 103.4 (but hes been under a heat lamp) He has pee'd and pooped today. Little crusty around one eye and one nostril. Also got a dose of Vitamin B SQ.

Do i need to get him on antibiotics?


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Ok, give him enough space to move in and out of the heat lamps radius. Normal goats temp is 101.5-103.5*F …he’s on the high side of normal. Watch to see that he’s self regulating closely. Any higher, I’d call your vet for an antibiotic. OTC is harder to get the dosage correct for babies and some shouldn’t even be used preruminating.
Does his breathing sound raspy or does he have a rattle sound in his chest? You can put a drop of VetRX in the nostrils but I hesitate at this age.


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Find the name of what that is. Antibiotics can and should be given Sub q with goats. I personally would never recommend doing IV. Goats have a faster metabolism then any other ruminate animal so IM or IV is normally not needed. SUB Q is less painful.
> Banamine is normally once a day for 3 days but in her case I wouldnt hesitate to do an extra day. At 40# I would do 1/2 cc sub q.
> You're doing great. Hang in there


the antibiotic is just labeled GENT


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

K.B. said:


> Make sure you don't give electrolytes within 2 hours of milk it can cause a reaction in their tummy


I was thinking only for the mother. Sorry I did not catch that. This is why we need lots of people right?

So happy mama is up and showing such improvement. 

You seem to be doing well for the baby. Keep a close eye and if temp goes up then probably a vet for the proper antibiotics. (Sadly, I say that with some hesitation as I just had a bad experience with a bad vet.) You seem to have a good one though. You are doing an awesome job!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Kate H said:


> the antibiotic is just labeled GENT


Gentamyicin?


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> Gentamyicin?


yeah that would probably make sense.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

That would be my guess and it can be give sub q.


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## DDFN (Jul 31, 2011)

If for any reason you can not use mother's milk or another goats milk then yes cows milk. If you have to use replacer then mix it as directed and take half of the mixed up replacer with equal amount cows milk. Used to do wonders when does were dry and trying to feed bottle babies.


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

DDFN said:


> If for any reason you can not use mother's milk or another goats milk then yes cows milk. If you have to use replacer then mix it as directed and take half of the mixed up replacer with equal amount cows milk. Used to do wonders when does were dry and trying to feed bottle babies.


He completely refused to eat when I put a 3ml of milk in with 2oz replacer. Got new bottle with only replaced and he was eager to eat it. 😞 might have to stick with replacer for a while


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Kate H said:


> He completely refused to eat when I put a 3ml of milk in with 2oz replacer. Got new bottle with only replaced and he was eager to eat it. 😞 might have to stick with replacer for a while


You can stop the replacer and give him warm electrolytes for 12 hours then switch him. It’s just him being more familiar with the taste of the replacer but he really won’t notice after the electrolytes.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree. I prefer to switch by doing electrolytes in place of replacer for 12 hours then go straight cows milk. Add a pinch of baking soda to first bottle and some probiotics in babies last bottle of the day. 

Best wishes


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

Thank you All!!!! Mom is doing GREAT!! She's up and eating and moving around. Baby is still pretty lethargic and have to force him to get started eating. He's getting 1.5-2oz every 4 hours... But he doesnt really wake and cry for it, he eats then goes back to sleep. I will probably give him another vitamin b shot today and get him some electrolytes. Any other advice? I dont really want to send him to intensive care at the vet but i do worry he's not really improving.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Rub his gums with a tiny pinch of cayenne pepper in honey ever 15 minutes for an hour..then ever 30 minutes for an hour..then go once an hour..then 4 times a day..until he perks up. . Def keep up with b complex..it can help wake the brain.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good advice by all.
So glad mama is doing better. 
Hope the baby will feel better soon.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

How’s the little guy doing this morning? Is he peeing and pooping ok? When you put your fingers in his mouth, do you feel bottom front teeth? If not he could be a bit premature and that’s why he’s sleeping so much.


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

GoofyGoat said:


> How’s the little guy doing this morning? Is he peeing and pooping ok? When you put your fingers in his mouth, do you feel bottom front teeth? If not he could be a bit premature and that’s why he’s sleeping so much.


I ended up taking him to the clinic yesterday. They confirmed he had asperated and had pneumonia. They ended up tubing him, giving him penicillin and banamine. As soon as i got him home he was a differnt goat! He was sucking from the bottle, up and moving, crying!! We got through the night without tubing him. Still trying to feed often via bottle what he will take, usually 2oz every 3-4 hours...


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## Nubian-Shepherdess (Aug 7, 2021)

Great job! So glad to hear mama and baby are doing well! It's a wonderful feeling isn't it?


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

Nubian-Shepherdess said:


> Great job! So glad to hear mama and baby are doing well! It's a wonderful feeling isn't it?


Yes thank you!! I was hysterical Sunday night/Monday. Things hopefully seem to be over the hump as long as the little guy continues to improve!!

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!!!! YOU ALL ARE AMAZING!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is terrific news.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Yahoo..glad baby is feeling better. Penicillin needs to be done 2x daily for 5 days.
Be sure to weigh baby and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz. Then multiply that number by 10% to see how much per day he needs and divide into 4 bottles. Add a pinch of baking soda in first bottle of the day and a little probiotics in his last. Feel tummy after each bottle. You want a flat but firm tummy. Not too poochy and not sunken in. Adjust as needed. Re weigh baby every few days and adjust amount based on gain.

Best wishes.


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

happybleats said:


> Yahoo..glad baby is feeling better. Penicillin needs to be done 2x daily for 5 days.
> Be sure to weigh baby and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz. Then multiply that number by 10% to see how much per day he needs and divide into 4 bottles. Add a pinch of baking soda in first bottle of the day and a little probiotics in his last. Feel tummy after each bottle. You want a flat but firm tummy. Not too poochy and not sunken in. Adjust as needed. Re weigh baby every few days and adjust amount based on gain.
> 
> Best wishes.


Yup, we have the penicillin all drawn up and ready for the 5 day 2x/day stretch. I will weigh him and keep up with the milk amounts!! Thank you!


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

Kate H said:


> I ended up taking him to the clinic yesterday. They confirmed he had asperated and had pneumonia. They ended up tubing him, giving him penicillin and banamine. As soon as i got him home he was a differnt goat! He was sucking from the bottle, up and moving, crying!! We got through the night without tubing him. Still trying to feed often via bottle what he will take, usually 2oz every 3-4 hours...


Great news! Yay! So happy things are working out! You’ve done a great job!


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

Kate H said:


> Yup, we have the penicillin all drawn up and ready for the 5 day 2x/day stretch. I will weigh him and keep up with the milk amounts!! Thank you!





GoofyGoat said:


> Great news! Yay! So happy things are working out! You’ve done a great job!





happybleats said:


> Yahoo..glad baby is feeling better. Penicillin needs to be done 2x daily for 5 days.
> Be sure to weigh baby and multiply that by 16 to get weight in oz. Then multiply that number by 10% to see how much per day he needs and divide into 4 bottles. Add a pinch of baking soda in first bottle of the day and a little probiotics in his last. Feel tummy after each bottle. You want a flat but firm tummy. Not too poochy and not sunken in. Adjust as needed. Re weigh baby every few days and adjust amount based on gain.
> 
> Best wishes.


So I weighed baby he is 3-1/2lbs. Everything I read says he should be up to 25 oz a day. He’s eating steady 2-3oz/3hours. About 12-16 oz a day. His belly seems full and he guzzles his food from the bottle and seems to stop when full. He is a Pygmy but I’m still reading he’s not getting enough. Any tips on how to get him to eat more? Or should I let him keep determining that? He will be one week old on Sunday and on formula


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

View attachment 226626


25 ounces a day for a 31/2 pound kid is too much milk. I strongly recommend not trying to get him to eat more than he already is and actually reduce the amount already being gave. 

Above is a feeding chart to use according to the weight of a kid. The first column is the weight of the kid and the other columns are the total amounts of milk to be fed in a 24 hour period. At his current weight, the TOTAL ounces per day DIVIDED by the number of feedings being given would be: 

5.6 ounces for 10% equals 1.4 ounces per bottle if feeding 4 times a day or 1.1 ounces for 5 feedings
8.4 ounces for 15% equals 2.2 ounces per bottle if feeding 4 times a day or 1.7 ounces for 5 feedings
10.8 ounces for 20% equals 2.7 ounces per bottle if feeding 4 times a day or 2.2 ounces for 5 feedings


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree..that wpuld be way too much milk. 
Multiple her weight by 16 to get weight in oz
3.5 x 16= 56 oz
Multiply 56x 10% to see how much per day she needs..=5.6..
Now you can scooch that to 6 oz
Divide that into 3 to 4 bottles a day. 

Best wishes


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## Kate H (Dec 26, 2019)

Thank you!!! That seems so much better!!!! Now that he’s recovering from the pneumonia and has an appetite I felt like there is noneay this little guy needs this much milk!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)




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