# Pygmy Goat Colors



## bbpygmy

If you are in question of you pygmy goats purity here is the NPGA color chart. it bugs me when people sell small goats saying they are "100% full blooded pygmy goats" when they are not. NOT ALL SMALL GOATS ARE PYGMIES . These are currently the only colors being accepted by the NPGA and only apply to pygmies in the US


----------



## kccjer

Yep, we get that "pygmy goats for sale" all the time that look way more ND than they do pygmy. Around here, the majority....if not papered....are a mix.


----------



## Goats Rock

To most people the term "pigmy" just means a small goat. They don't realize that there is an actual breed 
called "Pigmy".


----------



## jfarmerterp

is there any rare markings or coloring for pygmy or nd? I ask because when we bought a couple of our first ( not registered) I remember the guy saying he had sold one of the bucks for a larger amount because a guy saw him and said his markings or was it coloring ( something about spots) were rare?? a recessive trait maybe. he showed us one of his babies but said it did not have his markings like he hoped it would.


----------



## bbpygmy

jfarmerterp said:


> is there any rare markings or coloring for pygmy or nd? I ask because when we bought a couple of our first ( not registered) I remember the guy saying he had sold one of the bucks for a larger amount because a guy saw him and said his markings or was it coloring ( something about spots) were rare?? a recessive trait maybe. he showed us one of his babies but said it did not have his markings like he hoped it would.


Some Pygmy breeders try to say that a Caramel or brown agouti is rare but they actually aren't... They may be somewhat harder to find in some areas but they aren't rare.


----------



## J-TRanch

This is one of the things that bug me that most! Argh... but I agree,, I think with the term pygmy..people automatically think small.
It's pretty obvious to tell which are pygmy and which are Nigerian though


----------



## janecb

bbpygmy said:


> Some Pygmy breeders try to say that a Caramel or brown agouti is rare but they actually aren't... They may be somewhat harder to find in some areas but they aren't rare.


Although caramel _is_ a recessive gene, and harder to get in kids. But it isn't 'rare' - neither is brown agouti. I still see a good percentage of caramels - light and dark - at our shows


----------



## Axykatt

Thank you for posting this! I have the same pet peeve. If the goat doesn't have a stocky, barrel frame and one of those colors, it's just a small goat not a Pygmy!


----------



## Zzpygmies

janecb said:


> Although caramel _is_ a recessive gene, and harder to get in kids. But it isn't 'rare' - neither is brown agouti. I still see a good percentage of caramels - light and dark - at our shows


My caramels are dominant.. I can only get a caramel with a caramel.. And I have about a 50 % chance as my caramels all have 1 agouti parent.

The serious show breeders in my immediate area mostly breed for agoutis are they tend to show better and they mature faster then the agoutis. That's what they told me at least and what I've seen for my area.. I mainly breed caramels and Browns though as I'm just a small hobby breeder that loves the lighter colors 

http://kinne.net/pygcolor.htm here is a reference for color dominance in Pygmy goats


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

Correct, Caramel is dominant - if you're only getting it crossed on another Caramel, that's just bad luck


----------



## janecb

Oh, that's weird! I was told by multiple breeders when I first learned about breeding and genetics that caramel is recessive, and you CAN'T get it through caramel/caramel breedings, only caramel/agouti. I guess it's because all of my caramels have an agouti parent? I'll try breeding some caramels to caramels in the spring to see what happens.


----------



## Zzpygmies

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> Correct, Caramel is dominant - if you're only getting it crossed on another Caramel, that's just bad luck


 my bucks are agoutis .. Most my does are caramels.. I was trying to say I only get a caramel if one of the parents are caramel.


----------



## Zzpygmies

janecb said:


> Oh, that's weird! I was told by multiple breeders when I first learned about breeding and genetics that caramel is recessive, and you CAN'T get it through caramel/caramel breedings, only caramel/agouti. I guess it's because all of my caramels have an agouti parent? I'll try breeding some caramels to caramels in the spring to see what happens.


Have you ever had two agoutis give you a caramel?

If you breed two caramels together you should have at least a 75% chance of caramel.. And that's if they both carry the recessive agouti gene


----------



## janecb

I think I once had a caramel spring out of nowhere. The grandsire was caramel on one side, so that must've been it. I'll definitely have a science experiment once my caramel doe kids and is ready to breed again. Thus far, she's had a single agouti with an agouti sire. She's bred again to an agouti. Next will be a caramel


----------



## Zzpygmies

janecb said:


> I think I once had a caramel spring out of nowhere. The grandsire was caramel on one side, so that must've been it.


Crazy! I love caramels,I'd love for some of my agouti does to pop one out


----------



## bbpygmy

Zzpygmies said:


> Crazy! I love caramels,I'd love for some of my agouti does to pop one out


I've had two agoutis produce a caramel. 
The sire was a grey agouti 
Sire's sire was a grey agouti
Sire's dam was a grey agouti 
Dam was a black 
Dam's sire was a black 
Dam's dam was a caramel


----------



## janecb

I found the goat on the herd book... Her name is KHH Garbanzo Bean. Her sister was a grey agouti with a ton of mismarks, but she was caramel. The sire has only had 3 caramel kids, and 2 were with the same caramel doe over 2 kiddings. So out of 25 breedings to agouti does, 1 baby was caramel. 

Sire was black agouti
sires sire was caramel
sires dam was black agouti
Dam was medium grey agouti
dams sire was grey agouti
dams dam was medium grey agouti


----------



## bbpygmy

janecb said:


> I found the goat on the herd book... Her name is KHH Garbanzo Bean. Her sister was a grey agouti with a ton of mismarks, but she was caramel. The sire has only had 3 caramel kids, and 2 were with the same caramel doe over 2 kiddings. So out of 25 breedings to agouti does, 1 baby was caramel.
> 
> Sire was black agouti
> sires sire was caramel
> sires dam was black agouti
> Dam was medium grey agouti
> dams sire was grey agouti
> dams dam was medium grey agouti


Genetics can be weird sometimes it's always a surprise to see what comes out. One of our friends has a grey agouti with a brown leg.


----------



## bbpygmy

This is her. Her full name is Rollie Pollie Pygmies Lunar Eclipse.


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

Make me think chimera...


----------



## bbpygmy

Here's some more pictures of her. I couldn't find any brown agouti in her pedigree, so it must be pretty far back.


----------



## Zzpygmies

bbpygmy said:


> View attachment 85844
> 
> This is her. Her full name is Rollie Pollie Pygmies Lunar Eclipse.


Was one of her parents a brown?

Edited- sorry didn't see your last post


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

It doesn't have to come from a brown agouti; a solid brown would throw it too (brown v. black is controlled separately from agouti pattern.) There's a recessive brown as well.


----------



## bbpygmy

Wild Hearts Ranch said:


> It doesn't have to come from a brown agouti; a solid brown would throw it too (brown v. black is controlled separately from agouti pattern.) There's a recessive brown as well.


There also are not browns in the line either, If there is it's really far back. Its just grey/black agoutis and caramels in her line.


----------



## Zzpygmies

My caramel with brown points only produces caramels and brown agoutis. So maybe one of the caramels in her line was a caramel with brown points? Or the brown was recessive to the caramel in that line?


----------



## Wild Hearts Ranch

Like I said, brown is separate - it will show up or not regardless of whether the goat is solid, agouti, or caramel. But it could be the recessive version, which is typically lighter.


----------



## bbpygmy

Zzpygmies said:


> My caramel with brown points only produces caramels and brown agoutis. So maybe one of the caramels in her line was a caramel with brown points? Or the brown was recessive to the caramel in that line?


I don't see any caramel with brown points in her line either but I'm going off the herd book so there may be one in there but they just never put down brown points. There's no brown agouti, solid brown or caramel with brown points. There is one or two dark caramels in her line so maybe that's where it came from...


----------

