# Peggy Sue has stiff back legs



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

For a few weeks I've noticed Peggy Sue, my 3y/o Pygmy doe, has had slightly stiff back legs. I had attributed this to her 9 month old kids still nursing and making her sore. When they punch the bag it lifts her back end into the air because they are bigger than her!

Tonight she got into the kitchen and stole half a dozen tortillas from the counter. This is no where near the largest amount of food she's ever stolen, so I wasn't too worried. I waited a bit and went in to massage her belly til she burped in case she had an upset tummy. She tried to get away, but I pinned her against the wall and rubbed. When I let her go she was limping badly on the left side, and the leg kept folding up under her. I was terrified and stayed with her, and after a minute the leg was fine and she was able to stand up on her hinds legs by herself. 

She never has put back on the weight she lost while she was pregnant, and I haven't been happy with her eyelid color for a while. I've wormed her regularly with Dumor wormer, and recently given her Ivermectin horse paste a few times. Could this be menengeal worms? How can I best treat it? I don't have access to Banamine, and the only large animal vet in the area doesn't know ANYTHING about goats (wanted me to wait til 6 MONTHS to disbud) and charges so much for a visit that I won't be able to afford the prescription. Would an OTC NSAID work at all for swelling? I'm trying to get a hold of another goat lady not too far away who has a better vet, but in the meantime what can I do?


----------



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm sorry I don't have much help to offer.... But I will pray for Peggy Sue, and that we can find out what might be wrong


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Update; very mild bloatiness from the tortillas, nothing worrisome, burping plenty, pooped berries (though I expect a clumpy poop by morning judging by the smell of her burps), so I don't think I need to worry about acidosis or anything like that. She doesn't seem uncomfortable, just oddly stiff.

Poor Peg!


----------



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I have to say, our Pygmy goats all have stiff back legs it seems. Even the 6 almost 7 month old wether. Wonder if it has to do with selenium, or some sort of mineral def? Now I don't know what's considered stiff back legs in the goat world, but they don't seem to bend a whole lot when they are walking/running. I will be giving them selenium next week, so maybe that might help. Or it could just be a pygmy goat thing.


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> I'm sorry I don't have much help to offer.... But I will pray for Peggy Sue, and that we can find out what might be wrong


Thanks, Sydney. :hug:

Just laid out all my animal savings on winter feed and supplements to put weight on Peg and Charlie Horse, and all my regular savings just went for a people crisis, so I'm really hoping I can resolve this with stuff on hand.


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Scottyhorse said:


> I have to say, our Pygmy goats all have stiff back legs it seems. Even the 6 almost 7 month old wether. Wonder if it has to do with selenium, or some sort of mineral def? Now I don't know what's considered stiff back legs in the goat world, but they don't seem to bend a whole lot when they are walking/running. I will be giving them selenium next week, so maybe that might help. Or it could just be a pygmy goat thing.


A certain amount of stiffness is normal. It's their short little hocks. Lately Peggy Sue has had trouble "being people", which is her best trick normally, and she seems stiffer than normal.


----------



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I know tetanus will cause stiff legs but it would make all her legs stiff.... Any injuries you could think of? Pinched nerve?


----------



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Are her legs/joints swollen or warm/hot to the touch?


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

No injuries, no tetanus, no CAE. Stiffness isn't in the knees, it's more in the hips. 

I was thinking if it was menengeal worms the swelling might have pinched a nerve for a minute from me grabbing her and rubbing her belly. Then she walked it off when I let her go. Just a theory, but I don't know what else to think.

Edit: no visible swelling or heat from her joints.


----------



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Well this doesn't really sound like M worm to me, but it also sorta does a little bit so I don't know. Hopefully the more experienced members will chime in come morning and offer some insight...


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Do you have white tail deer in your area? It doesn't sound like M worm but you would want to do Ivomec shots (must be injected) and high dose of safeguard.


----------



## awshucksgoatfarmvt (May 11, 2012)

My neighbors kid got infected from the deer. Vet gave the kid what Karen suggested. Also banamine and penicillin. I can find out for the the correct dosage and time period if you like


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is the best article Ihave read on MW
http://goatconnection.com/articles/publish/article_126.shtml

might have a fecal done ...could be worm realted..especially if she is having pale eyes and trouble gaining weight...if you can not have one done then a broad base wormer 3 times 10 days apart then again in 30 days might help put her anemia issue at rest..which can also cause weakness..ivomec plus and valbazen cover the most worms. 
red cell at 6 ccper 100# once a day for a week then once a week until color is better
along with Vit b 12 or b complex PLUS
high protien feed, alfalfa and green leaves all help with the b 12 to rebuild red blood cells..
One Adult aspirin daily will help with the stiffness and any inflammation, also Ground flax seed in her grain will also help with inflammation and add a healthy fat to her diet..


----------



## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

Doesn't she live in the house? Would she even have access to deer to catch M worm?


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

NubianFan said:


> Doesn't she live in the house? Would she even have access to deer to catch M worm?


During the day if it's not raining she is outside in the pasture with the horse and other goats. Once it gets cold during the winter she's in all day, but the rest of the year she only comes in for her afternoon naps and to sleep at night.

We do have a dangerously large concentration of whitetail deer here. Taylor County GA is a hugely popular hunting destination because you can't move without scaring a deer out of the brush.

Could she just be really sore from the kids beating her up during nursing? I can lock them up in the buck pen for a couple weeks to dry her off. I haven't yet because it upsets my horse and he won't go far from them so he doesn't get enough graze when they are penned, but I'll do what I have to for my poor little Pyg-Peg. 

I just bought Safeguard for winter worming, so I'll give her some today. I should have enough money tomorrow (if all my students remember to pay for November on time) to buy some Ivomec injectable. Do I want Ivomec or Ivomec Plus? Should I get some Red Cell since she's anemic? It can't hurt to super worm all the goats right now, right? I'm hoping to breed everyone this month, so I want to worm anyway, I think.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Ivomec plus covers liver fluke, so if you have to worm them my as well cover all bases..
Yes, if she is pretty pale, red cell or injectable iron will help her restore redblood 

it is possible th ekids are too hard on her and at 6 months old its safe to ween : ) she might appriciate the break too BUT if you suspect MW..then treat now...dont second guess...With MW youhave to be on top of it and fast for best results..
best wishes


----------



## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Update: EVERYONE is anemic! Peg is the worst, but no one is better than a 3 on the scale. Everyone else seemed so healthy, too. 

I've been using Dumor topdressing wormer and Ivermectin horse paste. Was that wrong? I feel so awful that all my goaties have parasites.  

If I worm them orally with Safeguard first will that risk hurting them more? Should I do the injectable Ivomec Plus first, then Safeguard? I feel like such a bad mommy.


----------



## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Dont feel bad! we dont always remember to check eye lids when everyone seems well! 

Safe guard does not work well in many area..I would choose the iv.plus..without a fecal you are kind of shooting in the dark...so need a big gun
sub Q is 1 cc per 40#...

Red cell for everyone, 6 cc per 100# daily for a week then once a week until color returns to normal.. high protien feed, alfalfa and green leaves along with b 12 will help them rebuild their red blood cells..

Of course if you are treating MW as well...dose the safe guard as well..you can do both at the same time


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Pellet dewormers don't work. Get the Ivomec plus.

For M Worm, she needs 1cc per 7 lbs daily for 5 days. If you have the paste, then I would dose at 4 to 5 times the horse dose.


----------

