# Help! Thoughts on Listeriosis treatment?



## Amber Hawes-Reid (Dec 11, 2017)

Looking for insight:
One of my fainting goat boys started acting off yesterday. He is 9 months old and basically a lap dog of a goat. Friday night, fed him and put him in his shed for the night and he was 100% normal. By Saturday morning, he wouldn’t leave his shed, hunched up and shivering while leaning against the wall. I thought it was probably hypothermia, as we finally got cold temps and a little snow, but his temp was normal. Had the vet come out as an emergency visit. Within 2 hours of making the emergency call, vet was onsite and he began to circle in front of us for the first time since I called the vet. Quickly started treatment for Listeriosis, or to cover Polioencephalomalacia. Temp went from 102 when I made the vet call at 1 pm to 105.8 when she got here at 3; then once banamine began, has come back down. We are trying to be aggressive with treatment, as my daughter will be devastated if we lose him. He is now living inside with us to control temps, in a large crate in our mud room to keep life calm and quiet for him. Currently doing banamine P.O., Dex IM, penicillin IM, Vitamin B Complex PO (to add Thiamine) and ProBios all twice daily and Biomycin IM every other day. Pushing fluids (4-6 oz. coconut water with electrolytes via syringe) every 4 hours, as he isn’t drinking much, but he will eat his hay. Anyone have anything else that they have found to be effective? TIA... hoping for an early Christmas miracle for this sweet boy, he’s our favorite guy and we would all be broken hearted to lose him.


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## Amber Hawes-Reid (Dec 11, 2017)

I should add... he was much better this morning than yesterday. Now, this evening he seems to be weak in his himd end again. His circling had stopped; it has now restarted... and meds have been consistent. He will eat voluntarily, but has no interest in fluids... which is why we are dosing via syringe.


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

You have to give penicillin and thiamine every 6 hours. Even in the middle of the night. Penicillin is a high dose--10cc per 100 pounds every six hours. I don't think that you need to give Biomycin also. Follow the treatment plan below. Good luck!
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Do not give Biomycin and Pen at the same time, not good. Stop the Biomycin it does nothing for listeria and given together cancels out he other.

I agree, give pen and thiamine every 6 hours. Until improvement and all is normal or close, then you can go to every 8 hours and so on until the goat is back to normal. If the goat goes backwards after starting to wean off, go back to giving it more often again. Giving banamine or Dex for brain swelling is wise daily for a little while, 1 x a day.
Can you get straight thiamine from your vet?

Do you have white tail deer? If so, meningeal worm come to mind as well. If the goat does not respond at all to the method of pen and thiamine. Check into meningeal worm.


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## Amber Hawes-Reid (Dec 11, 2017)

Thank you both! I appreciate the feedback. I had my vet come back out. After much research and collaboration with my vet, I tweaked the regimen and was able to get straight Thiamine. He didn’t make much improvement. On day 4, I added Usnea extract (at 1 mL by mouth and 1 mL topically on his skull/brain stem and rubbed it in) after reading an article.... and within 12 hours, he was almost back to normal. Walking straight lines. Eating and drinking VIGOROUSLY, which he had only done by force for the previous days! I was in disbelief that the Usnea was actually what made the difference, so decided to give it another day or so. I am happy to report that he is now on day 6 since symptoms began and back to 100% himself, albeit a litter weaker (understandably). We plan to let him go back outside to live with his herd this weekend when we can watch him closely, as he is clearly sick of being a house goat and living in our mudroom. I can’t be certain that the Usnea made the difference in the rapid turn around, but if I am ever unlucky enough to go through this again... I will definitely use it as a first line of defense in conjunction with the other treatments. ❤


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## jschies (Aug 15, 2014)

That is wonderful to hear! What is usnea?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear, straight thiamine is at a higher mg RX and is given IM, the goat may of had polio, if he responded after a couple of doses of it. 

Usnea extract?
Something that goes on the skin, I don't think will touch Listeria or polio. I hate to say.


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## Amber Hawes-Reid (Dec 11, 2017)

@jschies - Usnea is an herbal extract. I read to give it at a dose of 2.5 cc orally per 50# 3-6 x/ day, as well as topically. I started with 4 times a day and within 24 hours, had a different goat. Read article below:

http://tipsdiscover.com/health/herbal-antibiotics-the-localized-non-systemics-usnea/

@toth boer goats i would have attributed it to the Thiamine, except my vet was out of stock and had to order it. I didn't start that until the day after the Usnea had begun. Like I said, not sure what worked so quickly.... but if I had to do it all over again, I'd use Usnea early and often. It certainly can't hurt.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Straight thiamine injected IM gets into their system quicker. But who knows, glad the goat is better.


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## PRgoat (Jan 19, 2014)

I just dealt with listeriosis in a goat and used usnea. Within 2 weeks from the brink of death she was 80% normal again. Now, 3 1/2 weeks out she is greater than 95%. I used it internally and topically. Still giving it to her internally, plus some Dr. Christophers extracts that support the nervous system. I am truly amazed she recovered at all, let alone so quickly. I thought she was a goner for sure.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

PRgoat said:


> I just dealt with listeriosis in a goat and used usnea. Within 2 weeks from the brink of death she was 80% normal again. Now, 3 1/2 weeks out she is greater than 95%. I used it internally and topically. Still giving it to her internally, plus some Dr. Christophers extracts that support the nervous system. I am truly amazed she recovered at all, let alone so quickly. I thought she was a goner for sure.


 Do you have a link to this stuff used? Sounds amazing, but we need more info on it and how it works.

Did you still give Thiamine/penG/dex or banamine injections?
Because it still needs to be given for the goat to have any chance and cure.


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## PRgoat (Jan 19, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Do you have a link to this stuff used? Sounds amazing, but we need more info on it and how it works.
> 
> Did you still give Thiamine/penG/dex or banamine injections?
> Because it still needs to be given for the goat to have any chance and cure.


Yes, let me clarify: She did receive those types of meds: Thiamine initially by the vet, then I gave her B complex. Initial antibiotic wasn't penicillin but the vet switched to that on Day 3. She had a dex injection Day 1 and Day 2. She was given penicillin from Day 3-10 (one injection/day on all antibiotics). After that the vet gave no further scope of care other than she would simply need time to recover from the paralysis and may not recover at all, or may recover somewhat. (The paralysis was on her right side - she could not close her eye, move her ear, and her tongue was hanging out of the right side of her mouth.)
My additional treatments included Dr Christopher's X-Ceptic, Relax-eze, and Nerve extract formulas, usnea extract, and copaiba essential oil (all given in the mouth to be absorbed by oral membranes). The usnea was also used topically on her brainstem. Rosemary essential oil diluted in fractionated coconut oil was applied to her spine externally as well. I was also giving her Dr. Christopher's Vitalerbs, either drenching the powder or using the extract orally. 
Here is the article that clued me into usnea: http://cheesemakinghelp.blogspot.com/2012/09/maureen-herrera-on-curing-listeriosis_21.html
I'd be glad to share more specifics on how much/how often the herbs/oils were dosed. But again, I am amazed at her quick turn around and I don't think her recovery would have happened so fast without the herbal support I gave in addition to the vet meds.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks, I will read it when I get more time.


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## Ddf (Mar 9, 2019)

Have others used usnea for helping with listeria? I have a rare case. Long story, but she is almost a year old now and I have treated this 35 pound Nigerian Doe for 4 months for listeria. She does great while on antibiotics but once she comes off she goes a week or two and then relapses, runs temp and goes off feed a little. She has never been down or stopped eating totally. My vet is stumped. Thinks if polio she would have died by now. We ruled out inner ear infection and meningeal worm, have treated with round of baytril and have done two rounds of wormer in case of Meningeal worm. The problem may be 4 months back she had entero and this may have led to the listeria. She was found circling to the right. My vet said to use penicillin 1.5 cc once a day/thiamine once a day and nuflor every other day for 4 shots. I followed his treatment plan and she did get better but has relapsed each time after coming off meds. I now feel like if HIGH dose of pencillin had been giving and much more often in the beginning this would have cleared up by now. (4 cc every 6 hours at first and then tapering off). He also had me use penicillin benzathine instead of procaine? I now feel that was a mistake. Long lasting penicillin not suggested from all I have read. I have treated her with penicillin procaine G since original diagnosis and in higher doses. She responded well and felt great the entire time on the meds. I consulted with another vet on facebook and he said if she responded that it is a gram positive bacteria and that sometimes listeria can leave brain microlesions and it may take longer to clear. This may be what is happening. I am ready to try usnea so I did order and have started giving to her. I also have tried this past week giving her dex - 6 days and tapering off dose each day. She is a medical mystery!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Welcome to the forum!
According to this http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html , your vet was not treating often enough.
Also, could your goat be getting the bacteria from it's enviroment repeatedly?
Asking because I have not had this happen yet.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

@mariarose @jschies old thread new member


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## Ddf (Mar 9, 2019)

No, do not think getting from environment, she has been moved several times and is now the farm "free range goat" and can come in the barn aisle (concrete) and walk around the entire area around the barn (no pens). She has been away from others but is not alone and can see them thru fencing etc. Correct, too late for high doses of penicillin that my vet did not recommend in the beginning and I have read the tenn meat goat link 10 times so I am aware of treatment etc. now but with this case all bets are off. She has odds stacked against her but we are still treating and hoping she fully recovers. Most goats with brain abcesses do not survive and are put down. That may end up being what happens if she cannot live off meds.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I've had 2 cases of listeria. I put both cases down eventually. I'll be facing more this year I'm certain because of the mold...

Financially and emotionally, I'm at the point where my first treatment is going to be a bullet. Confirmed Listeria and MW are now death sentences on my farm.

I am sorry for her, and sorry I am not of more help to you.


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## Ddf (Mar 9, 2019)

mariarose said:


> I've had 2 cases of listeria. I put both cases down eventually. I'll be facing more this year I'm certain because of the mold...
> 
> Financially and emotionally, I'm at the point where my first treatment is going to be a bullet. Confirmed Listeria and MW are now death sentences on my farm.
> 
> I am sorry for her, and sorry I am not of more help to you.


so sorry to hear this, I will continue to work with her until I think there is no hope but as long as she is eating, pooping and getting around its just hard to put her down.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm sure that's a fine decision.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Just keep up treatment, if you want to try to beat this.

Some do snap out of it, while others, we fight and fight it and still it goes nowhere. 
It is exhausting work around the clock. 

Honestly, high doses of penG is the treatment, not nuflor.
I would try that if you haven't to kick it out. 
Also be sure to give Dex with the guidance of a vet or Banamine for brain swelling. Without these treatments, the symptoms become worse.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Ddf said:


> so sorry to hear this, I will continue to work with her until I think there is no hope but as long as she is eating, pooping and getting around its just hard to put her down.


This is slightly random, but maybe try some garlic. Couldn't hurt, and garlic acts as a penicillin without the side effects. This is something you could keep her on for life.

I would probably suggest 2-3 cloves daily for 3 days, 2 cloves daily for 5 days, and then 1 clove daily continuing on.

https://thegivinggoat.home.blog/2019/01/01/using-garlic-to-improve-herd-health/


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Ddf said:


> No, do not think getting from environment, she has been moved several times and is now the farm "free range goat" and can come in the barn aisle (concrete) and walk around the entire area around the barn (no pens). She has been away from others but is not alone and can see them thru fencing etc. Correct, too late for high doses of penicillin that my vet did not recommend in the beginning and I have read the tenn meat goat link 10 times so I am aware of treatment etc. now but with this case all bets are off. She has odds stacked against her but we are still treating and hoping she fully recovers. Most goats with brain abcesses do not survive and are put down. That may end up being what happens if she cannot live off meds.


I am glad you are familiar with the website I linked for you. I cannot help in any way except for information that I have found.
I am really sorry your goat is going through this, and sorry you have to deal with it. I hope with your continued treatments she pulls through this.


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