# Week old not acting right



## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

Our week old guy isn't acting right. He was 1 of 4. The others didn't make it. He was really cold. We took him into the house and bottle fed him. We returned him to his mom and she has been doing all the work for 3 days. He has been running around and acting like a kid. After work he wasn't his normal self. He also fell over and looked like he was running in place and crying. He looks really fat. I am assuming he is stopped up. His temperature is 99. He is breathing short and a little faster than normal. He is now leaning his head to the side and falling asleep while crying. 

We are warming him up in the house. We gave him an enema. He pushed hard while crying and 2 little nuggets popped out. 

What else should we do?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

If he is constipated, you may need to keep giving enema's slowly to get more out. If he's stopped up it can take a little time to get it loose and out. I'd give some B-Complex and Karo Syrup for constipation. That's always worked for me on a few kids I've had that were constipated. 
Hopefully he will be okay.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Also, I would give some B-Complex SQ since he is in rough shape.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

I'd give him some probios too with the vitamin b complex.
I'd follow this article from Tennessee meat goats recommendation on how to handle constipation

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/constipationinne.html


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I'm not really sure if he's constipated now. The two nuggets that came out where yellow but they were as soft as bubble gum. I expected to be much harder than that if he is constipated. He was straining and crying when he passed the two nuggets.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I would give another enema. Make sure it is very very warm so you don't drop his body temperature.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

If he was straining and crying to pass it, then I'd definitely consider that he is constipated. Last one I had constipated was year before last, bottle kid. It took a while but eventually got all the poo out and he was back to his silly self. I hope that's all that's wrong with your guy. It's so hard to know for sure... so many different things that could be wrong. But full feeling, low temp and pain makes me think he is stopped up. I hope someone can come help give more opinions if they have other ideas of what it could be.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I give him the enema and work his belly and only thing that comes out is the water enema. I've done it a couple times now.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

When I massage his belly it sounds like water sloshing around in there.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

If the sloshing is in his stomach, it needs to move it could be floppy kid syndrom. The pluggage may be farther back inside and the enema never reached it.
If the sloshing is in his intestines keep massaging and make sure to keep him warm.
If he has a lot of milk in his stomach just sitting there it is very bad. Get it moving with milk of magnesia.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree I would start treating him for floppy kid. It is not going to harm him if that is not t issue. I would also keep giving the enemas. What are you using, just plain water? If so try a little dish soap or cooking oil of any kind mixed with warm water. Again if not plugged up the enemas are not going to harm him just really tick him off. A lot of times though FKS and being plugged up to hand in hand. Google FKS, it has been years since I have had a kid with it but I believe part of the treatment is to give CD antitoxin, if it doesn’t I would go ahead and give it. Any stomach issue of any kind it’s a good idea to pull out the antitoxin.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

He had his ups and downs last night. Several times i thought it was his last breath. He went pee at least 4 times in an hour. I did the enema 3 times. 2 were dish soap, 1 was store bought. I'm afraid to put too much in him. I did about 10-15 cc each time. 
He is running around acting normal now. He has raspy breathing. It is also short and fast. 
The water noise is in his stomach, not intestines. I was thinking bloat????


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I did everything recommended for floppy kid except for CD antitoxin. I do not have that.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Raspy breath isn't good. What is his temp?


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

It dropped to 99 this morning. It was 101 a little while ago.


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## Korita (Jan 11, 2018)

FKS

2 cc’s PenG
2 cc’s fortified b-complex or straight thiamine
2 cc’s baking soda (add to water)

Give all orally 1 time a day for 3 days


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I started him on penG and b complex last night when I started to hear the raspiness. I gave them both subQ along with a little b complex orally.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm sorry he's still having issues. Any chance you could get a vet to look at him? It's so hard to diagnose these issues over a computer without seeing the kid. I'd be heartbroken if our advice is the wrong advice and something can be done for him. 

The raspy breathing and the full belly really worry me. Not had that issue except with a constipated kid. I definitely think you should keep up with the penG and B-Complex at least until you can get him checked out. Some probiotics wouldn't hurt either.

How is his breathing and belly? Has he been nursing or taking a bottle? Wish I knew what else to tell you. The only other stomach issue I've dealt with in our kids or my friends kids has been e coli. Was his dam given cd/t 4 weeks before she was due? I do worry that maybe he needs cd antitoxin (not even something I have kept on hand which is scary...).


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I did give him probiotics. 
The belly seems a little smaller, still sounds like water sloshing around. He hasn't gone #2 yet, but he pees a lot. Last night it was bright yellow almost green yellow pee. It looked similar to the b complex. 

He wanted to eat this morning so I put him with his mom. He nursed and immediately went down hill. I got him back and now he is running around our study while my wife works. I told her to give him pedialite until I get home if he is hungry. I am going to try to get him in with the vet in an an couple of hours.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If he hasn't went poo, give an enema right away.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

On the way to the vet the dam broke. Lots of stinky pellets came out. He shrank to normal size. After the vet checked him out he just gave a steroid shot due to the raspy noise. He said continue the PenG for a couple more days. So he back with his mom and acting good.


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## Korita (Jan 11, 2018)

Oh thank goodness. That poor little guy must have been one hurtin’ unit.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

This what was going on while I was at work today.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

gwith said:


> I did everything recommended for floppy kid except for CD antitoxin. I do not have that.


You can get the vaccine from tsc n the refigerated vaccines. Ask them abt it. they will know.
He is a cutie, I love the one of him staring at the computer!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad he is doing better.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm glad to hear he released his cargo! I would definitely watch him closely for constipation. Give him some Karo syrup, not sure how much, someone else may be able to suggest amount, but I've give him some morning and evening to help keep things moving, it really does help! Sometimes when they are constipated it can be way up inside and hard for the enema to reach. I kept thinking what did I do with the last one that was really tough, and I remembered I was instructed to use the tube from a newborn tube feeding kit on the end of the syringe and gently push it in a little bit and use that vs. just the end of a syringe which doesn't always go in far enough.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> You can get the vaccine from tsc n the refigerated vaccines. Ask them abt it. they will know.
> He is a cutie, I love the one of him staring at the computer!


Interesting. I remember looking for CD antitoxin a year or two ago at TSC and they didn't sell it, only the tetanus antitoxin. I'll have to check again.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

HoosierShadow said:


> Interesting. I remember looking for CD antitoxin a year or two ago at TSC and they didn't sell it, only the tetanus antitoxin. I'll have to check again.


Seriously, im prolly mistaken, i need to sleep my brain is fried lol!


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am glad the dam burst. If any more of us have that problem we will know to keep at it or go riding in a car with our kid.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

You might have to get the CD antitoxin from PBS, Jeffers, or somewhere like that. Our TSC doesn't carry it either.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

The CD&T vaccine is the Toxoid. The antidote is the Anti-toxin. TSC (and my other feed stores) does not carry the CD anti-toxin. That pretty much needs to be ordered in advance so you have some at hand.

I'm not criticizing, just pointing out that there is a difference between the vaccine (toxoid) and the treatment (anti-toxin) and you can't exchange one for the other.

Some people may not know, and this post is for them.

YAY that the baby is OK!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good advice, glad the baby is better.


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## GoofyGoat (Sep 21, 2018)

@gwith 
You can get the tetanus anti-toxin at Atwood's in Crowley. It's in the back fridge by the cattle section.
I'm so sorry I didn't see this earlier I could have brought you one. How's everything today?


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

He is still here. I don't know if he is way over eating or something is stopping him up. He does go to the bathroom, but he is huge in the stomach area. It looks like he swallowed a softball. He runs around and plays. He seems to be feeding all the time. He acts like it hurts to pick him up. He is rounder than any kid I remember.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

When he is with the dam - are they locked in a small pen together? Sometimes they overeat if mom doesn't have much space to step away. Also, movement stimulates bowels so if he isn't running and hopping a lot in a small pen, that may be stopping him up. 

I would give a very warm and very oily enema. And a firm stomach massage if you can. Maybe a tiny dose of Milk of Magnesia?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

This does not sound good!
Can you syringe some mineral oil into his mouth? There is something that should be mixed with it because it has no taste and might go into the lungs. I'll try to find out what.

Edit. Nutridrench. You are supposed to add Nutridrench to Mineral oil to make it taste.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm not sure mineral oil would be helpful as that would more treat a bloat issue and the poster already knows this is a poop issue since he went back to normal size after a bowel movement a few days ago... Will mineral oil cause poop to pass more easily?


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

That is what I was told, that it would make things slippery without being harsh.

I've never used it, So I bow to anyone's better ideas, including MoM!


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

Bad news. Right after I posted how he was doing okay but fat I went to check in and he died.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm terribly sorry.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I decided to try to figure out what happened so I opened him up. I was shocked at what I saw. As soon as opened the abdominal muscle I was flooded with a clear yellow fluid. It looked and smelled like goat urine. It looked like 2-3 times the small intestine I expected (not a pro opinion). I followed the intestine from the opening to try to find the blockage. The large intestine was all air with a dropping here and there. The small intestine was empty. At the end of the stomach/ beginning of the intestine I felt a hard object. I cut into it and it was like a pea sized flap of tissue that blocked the intestine. I don't know if that was normal, but almost nothing was getting past it. The stomach had about 5-6oz of milk in it, but nothing past the bump. Because I was there I decided to look at the heart. I cut the diaphragm and that clear yellow liquid started to pour out of the chest cavity. The heart was the size of a golf ball. Normal??

He was always urinating. When I picked him up today he leaked on me every time. His breathing was fast and shallow.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

I am sorry you lost him. I lost one from that earlier this year. His blockage wasn't complete, he could pass milk, solid food blocked him at the stomach/small intestine valve.
Some one else just recently lost a kid that did the same, and her vet told the name. I don't remember it. Will look.


EDIT: Pyloric stenosis


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

gwith said:


> I decided to try to figure out what happened so I opened him up


Thank you for doing that.


Dwarf Dad said:


> Pyloric stenosis


Thank you for the answer.

Oh, the poor mite.


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## forkedpath (Mar 3, 2018)

First, I'm very sorry you lost him. I've been following this and I was so relieved for you when I read that the "dam broke", then I just read this.  Ugh, so sorry.

Second, you're quite brave to have been able to dissect him to get to the root of the problem. Not everyone has the courage to do that, but it's very important. Especially in these mystery cases. This won't sneak up on you again.

While I understand clearly digestion was an issue with this poor little one, it seems you were keen that fluid and urination were also a noticable problem.

Did you look at his kidneys during his post mortem as well? And as for the fluid pouring out from the first incision, did you locate his bladder? It sounds like it may have ruptured in the end. He certainly shouldn't have had that much fluid in his abdominal cavity or around his heart. I wouldn't have been suprised if he had the same fluid in his lungs, too, which may have been causing the breathing issues you'd spoken of.


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## gwith (Aug 12, 2014)

I did find his kidneys. The position seemed a little odd. From my memory they were always firmly attached to the back of the abdomen (along the spine). These were free floating and barely attached to the back wall. There was just a little tissue bonding them. Maybe that is because he was young still. The color and size looked normal. The liver seemed a little large, but once again I don't know how big one should be for a 2 week old premature goat. 

I did locate the bladder. My first thought was that it ruptured. It was not damaged. It was about 1" long and 3/4" in diameter with a little urine in it. When I squeezed the bladder to look for a leak, he urinated on the outside so I don't think it was ruptured.

I think the short fast breathing was caused by there being no room in his chest cavity for the lungs to expand.


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## Trollmor (Aug 19, 2011)

*Well done* to have kept him alive as long as you did, and you DID share two VERY nice photos! (That with the computer might make a nice picture for a Christmas card or with a joyful text to make a commercial for goats - learning anything!)

And very *WELL DONE* to open him and try to find out what was wrong! I hope this thread will end up informing us all about this case!

I do like the photo of what was going on while you were at work. He looks so interested in life! :inlove::inlove:














(Like in the Swedish Church song "The sorrow and the joy walk together")


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am so sorry.


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## Dwarf Dad (Aug 27, 2017)

Really strange about the urine-like fluid. I guess medical trained people could weigh in on that..


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