# having a worm issue, more like an epidemic



## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, having a major worm problem, Goats are loosing weight then getting anemic and then dieing. We discovered that it is the blood suckers

"Haemonchus contortus (ie. blood sucking worm found in the abomasum or fourth compartment of the ruminant stomach)"

I have lost a couple babies and a couple older goats    I have wormed the bucks with Valbazen and wormed the goats with Morantel Tartrate. But they dont seem to be better. Not everyone looks yucky just some of them. My herd is closed, no one goes out and no one comes in Gotta get this under control before more goats die. I know what goat I brought in that started the whole thing.... GRRRR. But what is happening is they start getting a little skinney, I worm them, and since they are blood suckers, when the worms die they detach from the intestines and then cause anemia and they cant come back up from it. Everyone here in calaveras that I have talked to is having problems, even the animal control officer I know lost two of her bucks due to this worm problem. I think because it rains then stops and gets warm in the 80's. Ok so I am wanting to worm everyone for 3 days straight then wait 7 days worm again, wait 7 days and then worm again. then move it to once a month for 6 months and then depending on fecals we will go to every 6 weeks or so. What wormers work good, I dont want to mess around with stuff that might have resistance. I see Pancur is good, I beleive Safegueard is no good.

http://www.durvet.com/prods/GOAT_506/DetailSheet.html
http://www.durvet.com/prods/RUMATEL_163 ... Sheet.html

Are any of these good?? I have 35 goats that need to be wormed, as much as I would LOVE to say that money is not an issue it is of course and I want something that isent horribly expensive. Please help guys.


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## whatknott (Feb 22, 2008)

sorry, I'm not familiar with this worm or these wormers. But I believe Panacur and Safeguard are the same wormer...
When I've had two miniature horses that repeatedly colic, I had a vet years ago tell me that they have a build up of worms and usual wormer doesn't take care of it. We then worm 5 days straight with DOUBLE dose Pancur (or Safeguard) and it's pulled them through the colic both times. I think I would try something like that if they were my goats. There is a liquid safeguard for goats that would be easier to be accurate in your measurements that the paste wormer.
Hope that helps. Not good losing goats to any cause, but especialy worms.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Safeguard and panacur are the same. 

I would go with something like Ivermectin plus if possible. At least in not pregnant animals, since I am not sure of the safety of ivomec plus in pregnant animals. 

This is also called the barber pole warm.


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## K-Ro (Oct 14, 2007)

Safeguard isn't going to help with these worms, about the only thing it does work on anymore is tapeworms.

I haven't heard of either of those wormers, but I know Dectomax is a good wormer, you can NOT use it on pregnant does.

Ivomec and Ivomec Plus are both good wormers and you can use both of them on pregnant does (like RunAround stated the Ivomec won't work against the Barberpole worm). Follow up with another dose 10 days after the first. Be sure that if you have a worm overload that you give it by injection so that it works at a slower and longer rate, because if you give it orally and they all detach at one time it will cause the goat to bleed out internally causing the anemia and death. 

No matter what wormer you use it is better not to use one in the first 21 days of pregnancy, but once you are past the first 21 days you should be fine with the ones that are safe during pregnancy.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Plain ivermectin isn't going to kill the barber pole worm. It's the Clorsulon in the plus that kills the barber pole worm. 

There is a cheap generic ivomec plus on jeffers called: Noromectin Plus Injection. I have been using that on my goats without any problems.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i agree ivomec plus


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## enjoytheride (Oct 5, 2007)

I also read a study done by a Scandinavian university on the effect of bolusing copper wires -it seems it is very effective with stomach worms in some stages. They tested bolusing the wire versus copper sulfate.
http://www.actavetscand.com/content/45/3/149

It was the most thorough thing I've seen and made me decide to try bolusing rather than feeding copper.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well the weird part about that copper thing is ever since I have copper bolused it seems that once the copper has worn off they look like crap (excuse my language) but they end up looking super bad. So my plan is, I am going to copper boluse everyone and then give everyone a shot of ivermectin plus injectable. Ok so since I have never done it as an injection how does that work? I know normal wormers is worm them then 7-10 days later do it again, but since you do it as a shot it goes into the body much slower and would you have to do it again in 10 days??


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Yes the copper bolusing is much more effective imo. I use the coppasure stuff. My friend copper boluses her goats a lot... like a couple she did every month for three months until they started looking better. 

No idea on the injection, but I believe it really stings, just a warning if they start jumping around after you give it to them.


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## badnewsboers (May 9, 2008)

You can give the injectable wormer orally.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I would also be giving them some sort of blood builder, like Red Cell, if you aren't already. :wink:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

You shouldent give the injectale orally, because it will run through the intestines in 24 hours and kill soo much soo fast that it can kill your goat. It is supposed to be given by injection so it kills a little at a time and lasts alot longer.


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

my firend has given ivomectin 1% orally without any issues. she doses 1 cc per 40 lbs


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## badnewsboers (May 9, 2008)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you sixshooter. Even Fias Co Farm recommends giving the injectable as an oral wormer at the rate of 1ml per 50 lbs. I have seen goats given a much stronger does of the injectable ivomec than that and have never seen there be any complications. A goat's metabolism is so much faster than a cows so I don't see how the injectable would work the same way as in a cow if injected by staying in the system longer.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

no no, I agree with you guys giving it normaly as an oral, I have done it for years without prolems as well. I am saying if you know your goats are infested with this kind of worm then is is safer to give it to them as a shot. Cause when you do it orally a big dose goes straight to the worms and kills everything at the same time, which can cause anemia even internal bleeding. I say give it as a shot if you know your goat is super wormey is all :greengrin:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooterfarm.............found this topic on this issue hope it helps.....

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4611&start=0


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

If it was me I'd be hitting them with Cydectin cattle pour on given orally at 1 cc per 22 pounds. Ivermectin is okay, but Cydectin is way better. I'd follow up with panacur, because Cydectin doesn't get tapes.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I personally would NOT use Cydectin on these sick goats. A long time goat breeder friend of mine said that goats should not be sickly at all if you want to use cydectin, he said it would kill them. I don't have a recomendation for a chemical wormer though, I really don't like any of them :GAAH:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Goats with worms are anemic -- you need to build them up once they are wormed (you do this after worming). A good dose of Red Cell or Iron injectable (labled for pigs) is important following the worm rutine. If you don't do this they will stay anemic and be succeptable to worms and get reinfested right away. 

Also if they are lacking in copper they will circum to worms faster.


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

Muddy Creek Farm said:


> I personally would NOT use Cydectin on these sick goats. A long time goat breeder friend of mine said that goats should not be sickly at all if you want to use cydectin, he said it would kill them.


Said it would kill them? Ummm, I must say that's rather interesting.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Cydectin is moxidectin. I personally would not use that dewormer unless it was a last resort. It is very very strong and I wont even use it on my horses. It has killed plenty of miniature horses, I don't know about goats.. but I wouldn't chance it. Thats just my humble opinion.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

Sorry, meant to say "could" not would lol.


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## FarmGirl18 (Oct 5, 2007)

RunAround said:


> Cydectin is moxidectin. I personally would not use that dewormer unless it was a last resort. It is very very strong and I wont even use it on my horses. It has killed plenty of miniature horses, I don't know about goats.. but I wouldn't chance it. Thats just my humble opinion.


I think you are referring to "Quest" which has a much higher level of moxidectin than Cydectin does. Cydectin is one of the most effective wormers, and I use it on my goats without an issue, I also know LOTS of other goat owners that use it with great success.

Your fine Chelsey...I'd use it with out a problem, but hey that's just my humble opinion.


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## Muddy Creek Farm (Oct 5, 2007)

I have heard of success with cydectin too, but I am still scared to try it on my goats because of the experience he has had with it. MAybe try Dectomax? Although I don't think I had great success with that either. :shrug:


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## badnewsboers (May 9, 2008)

I've used both Quest and Cydectin on my goats with no problems whatsoever.

Also B12 helps a goat bounce back after becoming anemic. I really like using Rooster Booster for this purpose. You can even top dress feed with it.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

hey .....sixshooterfarm....where are you..???.. you seemed to of ....disappeared....
how is it going??

this topic is from the goat spot.....on those type of worms.......sept,5 2008

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4611&start=0


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Hi all, thank you all for your help. I think what we are going to do is give them Rumatel, the worms havent built up a resistance to this wormer just yet and it will kill the worms slowly so that I dont kill all my goats. Then I will follow up with a paste wormer that will get the tapes. I will worm for 3 days straight and then again in 10 days. Also I might have 10 of them sold, I had my herd closed and said sorry none are for sale right now the guy asked me why and I said cause we are having a worm problem and we were on the phone for a good hour talking aout it, he is still gonna take all 10, he has been riaising goats for 40 years and has lots and lots of land to be able to seperate everyone. That will bring my herd from 39 to 29.....what a jump huh? I hate to see them go and will be awling my eyes out, but I cant keep them this way! I cant stand seeing them like this. So getting rid of ten will really really help me out, help with the worms an help overpopulation and crowded pens. Oh and I have the iron injectable and red cell and all that. The day I worm them how long should I wait to give them all the iron and vit B?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

hey sixshooter......I was wondering how you were doing... :worried: .....Sounds like your goat sells are going to be good in the near future......  that is wonderful news.....it is so good of you as an honest breeder ...to let the buyer know .........why you would prefer him to wait.......  I highly commend you for that.......  ............ Sounds like a great wormimg plan......good luck on it..........I am sorry you have to deal with that nasty worm load.....but at least with the help of all of us ..........at the goat spot............ I would think your goats should be on the road to recovery real soon....... :hug:



> The day I worm them how long should I wait to give them all the iron and vit B?


 you know I cannot answer this question........if someone else knows I am sure you will know real soon..........I know it is after worming...... but not sure ....especially when...... you have to do a series of days in a row on it.....ect... 

I am praying for you and your goats....... ray:


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## capriola-nd (Jul 6, 2008)

I don't really know either but I would definitely give it to them after the last worm dosing, maybe 1 or 2 days afterwards?? Someone else will be able to help you better on that but it's what sounds logical.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

hi all. Ok so i got the rumatel and the lady at the feed store says that she gives it to her 50 + herd of goats and she dosent have a single problem with hook worms. So now lol, I have a 1 pound bag and you are supposed to feed 0.1 pounds per 100 pounds of weight..... and if each goat is 50 pounds that is twenty goats , so now I have to sit there are try to measure out 20 individual doses in the bag and make it as equal as possible because seriously who has a measuring thing that weighs grams??? I know I dont! so I will give them this dose, now it says it is a wormer that you are supposed to only give once, it stays in their system for a while and it takes care of eggs and worms, so I am thinking I will feed them this dose then in 4 days give everyone the heral...what do you think. after the guy called me who wanted the 10 goats I cried and cried and then cried some more, I cant stand seeing them leave but obviously I cannot provide the proper home for them. So I am drastically downsizing and I know it is for the best! am I doing the right thing??


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

yea. its the right thing. i'm going through the same thing with my boers and nigies right now. i cannot afford to feed them and give them all attention so i'm cutting way back


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

yeah Sarah I am cutting a couple more just in case some of yours come my way lol :roll: :greengrin: Oh I wanted to ask you, since Loki is coming back my way do you still need him AGS reg or do you want me to deal with ags myself lol


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

i need an ags number for him. a 4h girl has already bred her doe to him, before i found out about the ags issues if you want to register him in your name thats cool but i need the number asap. i will just put your name down instead of mine

as for ndga.. i still need a transfer for gia. i found her a home already and she's leaving soon

got the boer pics for you putting them up soon


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

gosh arent I just a pain in the butt!! lol. Ok well like I said I will call them tomarrow and figure it out, I will be faxing the bill of sale for gia tomarrow as well. Give me her info and Loki's info as well.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

yes you are doing the right thing :hug: 


The day after worming I would start everone on the supportive treatment --- whatever you choose, like iron, red cell B complex etc

scalling down is REALLY going to help your chances at saving everyone and quickly


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

well gia is going somewhere different but its not a rush rush on her. i just need a bill of sale from you to me on gia to get to dottie

what info do you need?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

SDK why dont you both talk via pm or email


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## SDK (Jun 26, 2008)

were doing both..kinda haha


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

sorry lol. We are texting too lol!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

sixshooter and SDK ......you 2 are adorable..........LOL


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well I went and wormed everyone and I think I was being a bit of a drama queen. THey dont look THAT bad! I was kinda excited. I think the wormer and lots of nice hay and some grain will help them out allot. Dont worry I am still scaling down but it was nice seeing that everyone wasent about to fall over and die lol. I wormed them and then tomarrow I will give them the herbal wormer I have, will do that for 3 days in a row then move the herbal wormer to once a week. I made my own wormer that I used about a year ago and everyone looked great, dont know why I dident continue it but I will defiently stick to it now!! If anyone is intered in herbal wormer I will make you guys some for real cheap since you all have helped me out!!! just im me!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

It's OK ......sixshooterfarm .....I know you were worried ............you went through a very traumatic time......it is understandable.....  

did you worm all your goats? Or are you just going to read their gums? ect


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well I went and looked at everyones gums, not too many of them looked horrible, I mean they all werent white but not as pink as I would like, so I decided to do the entire herd....I know thats bad to do, I normally worm the ones that need to be wormed but at the point now I want to make 100% sure everyone is clean! you know what I mean?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Well I went and looked at everyones gums, not too many of them looked horrible, I mean they all werent white but not as pink as I would like, so I decided to do the entire herd....I know thats bad to do, I normally worm the ones that need to be wormed but at the point now I want to make 100% sure everyone is clean! you know what I mean?


 you are very smart to do it that way .........especially when you had dying animals......I would hit them again for GP though... 10 days later .......your ground is still contaminated........As you had mentioned there gums are not as pink as you would like.....don't let those types of worms take over they seem to be one of the toughest.......you may have to keep up on it for a while..... to get it under control........remember to rotate your wormers....... Anyone can correct me if I am wrong..... 

maybe someone else has an idea on how often.........after the initial treatment and the 10 days later...?


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

So since I have given them the rumatel should I reworm them again with rumatel?? Or a different wormer that kills hookworms? I was thinking about going out and getting some Prohibit Levanisole... was told it is a VERY strong wormer and will kill everything. SO I was thinking about that stuff just to get his under control. What do you all think


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> So since I have given them the rumatel should I reworm them again with rumatel?? Or a different wormer that kills hookworms? I was thinking about going out and getting some Prohibit Levanisole... was told it is a VERY strong wormer and will kill everything. SO I was thinking about that stuff just to get his under control. What do you all think


 I have never used that type of wormer......so I cannot give advice on it........but I would definitely treat again ....for the barber pole worm........... Hopefully someone else will be able to tell you more....soon....


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## gotgoats (Nov 11, 2007)

Are you talking about Levamisol? I didn't see the Prohibit Levanisole on my list. Wondering what it was for my information. Just curious.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

gotgoats said:


> Are you talking about Levamisol? I didn't see the Prohibit Levanisole on my list. Wondering what it was for my information. Just curious.


yah what she said :wink:

If so then you need to be very careful with this wormer. You need to have an exact weight and dose accordingly.


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well no one is dead this morning! so my fear of the wormer killing everyone, well everyone is fine, eating and happy! yay, I am hoping this is the light at the end of the tunnel lol.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> Are you talking about Levamisol? I didn't see the Prohibit Levanisole on my list. Wondering what it was for my information. Just curious.


rumatel and Levamisol ....are they the same thing... because StaceyRoop and gotgoats are asking if it is Levamisol..?? :?

But anywayz......sounds great sixshooter....sounds like you have treated them before they were to far down......real promissing...


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

I dont think levamisole is the same thing as rumatel, I know that levamisole is a pig wormer that is super strong and you have to e careful how much you give. I will go find the info on it


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> I dont think levamisole is the same thing as rumatel, I know that levamisole is a pig wormer that is super strong and you have to e careful how much you give. I will go find the info on it


ok sixshooter,,,


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## gotgoats (Nov 11, 2007)

I was curious if it was Levamisole. According to Fiasco Farms their are toxicity problems if overdosed, and death can occur. A book I have also states not to use other wormers, antibiotics or insectides within 2 weeks, and it is not for breeding or lactating animals. I have no experience with this drug only what I have read. Otherwise don't know much else about it. Anybody use it before...how was your experience?


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

ok rumatel and levamisole are two different things. Rumatel is Morantel Tartrate and Levamisole is levamisole hydrochloride(pig wormer) Yes the levamisole can be dangerous and like i said is a very strong wormer that will kill everything, the rumatel is very good wormer just isent as strong and has a residue that will kill worms for a while, thats why it says to be used as a single treatment and no follow up in 10 days is needed ( but I will anyways). 

As far as getting rid of 10 goats thats not happening any time soon.... the people came today to look at the goats that I was going to sell to them... they looked at them and said well they are smaller than I thought and I would like a little bit more meat on them.. (eing this is the guy that was cool with a bit of a worm problem) and I said well I figure that since you have lots of grazing they will fatten up, he said yeah thats not a problem I just wanted to get a couple butchered right away for the freezer :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: I said no these are NOT meat animals I am sorry, if you want meat I can hook you up with some boer goat breeders but these are not meat goats and I am sorry I cannot sell these goats to you!sooooo it looks like I will be holding on to these guys for a little bit longer. Oh well :roll: Well everyone is looking good, no one seems sickley from the wormer and actually they look like they seem like they have a bit more energy.   so I am supplementing with a little grain and putting their herbal wormer in it and some grass hay. I do have 4 girls out in the backyard that i am giving free choice hay to and giving plenty of grain too as well. but definently not horrible, so yay!! I think its working!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I am sorry sixshooter.......I can't believe that guy had the nerve to say "they are to skinny"
you were straight forward with him and he should of known ......that they would be skinny for a little while..... :shrug: 
It wasn't your fault at all .........and the guy should of known better.....unless he was trying to get your goats for nothing.......like alot of them are trying to do right now...  ..
hopefully things will turn around soon.... and you will sell them.....have you tried the craigslist ...?

I will pray .......that things will get better for you soon..... ray:


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

SS...Apparently the intentions of this guy had been to butcher those goaties, and since you don't want to sell for meat he made the off handed remark....good for you to hold onto them! A good buyer will come along soon enough, and hopefully your herd is on their way to recovery :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree Liz.....  hang in there sixshooter..... :thumbup:


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## sixshooterfarm (Oct 18, 2007)

Well everyone is doing super good! no one is looking sick, everyones color is looking really good, and everyone has great energy. :clap: :clap: :leap: :leap: I couldent do any of this without you guys, I really appreciate it. And you know there were probably like 2 I could let go some for meat.....but I dident have the heart for it and the guy wasent truthful and upfront about it so I couldent do it. Thank you all!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree sixshooter.....your very welcome ...we care.... :hug: .....YOU GO GIRL......  :leap: :leap: I am so happy the goats are doing well...  :leap: :hug:


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