# GMO feeds? Bad?



## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

What feeds are considered GMO? We are in the process of switching over feeds and would like to know more about GMO. The mix we are going to switch over to is, oats,barley, BOSS, a tad bit of corn and Calf Manna. Which of these contains GMO? Would these be bad to feed because of GMO? 

Question number 2. 

Anybody use Purina Goat Chow? Any good reports on it? Thinking about feeding this to the does in their milking feed.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Any corn has a high probability of being GMO..most likely calf manna has GMO grain in it...I have not heard of oats and barley as GMO yet...best bet is organic to be some what sure its not GMO...

I have not used Purina myself


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Any corn has a high probability of being GMO..most likely calf manna has GMO grain in it...I have not heard of oats and barley as GMO yet...best bet is organic to be some what sure its not GMO...
> 
> I have not used Purina myself


Calf manna has soy. Is that GMO? What about BOSS? GMO?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Soy is most likely GMO....BOSS should be ok from what I read...

My mix has been 

WHole oats
BOSS
Calf manna and
Beet pulp..which could also be GMO lol..
Im switching to 

organic Whole oats
origic whole Barley
Organis BOSS if I can find it affordable!! so far it not been...so we use non organic BOSS
And we use Alfalfa pellets, whic could also be GMO..so we look for organic...

Its not easy trying to avoid GMO..we can only do what we can...Its important to my family that we move away from GMO...
Im also looking at Chafhaye again...to add to the feed ration...maybe for the gals in milk or needing a bit extra ...Im not a nutritionist, so Im feeling my way through lol


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## MsScamp (Feb 1, 2010)

fishin816 said:


> Anybody use Purina Goat Chow? Any good reports on it? Thinking about feeding this to the does in their milking feed.


There have been a number of threads regarding Purina and their practice of changing out ingredients due to cheaper cost. I wouldn't feed Purina to my open does, let alone my milking does. If the brand name is Purina, you can pretty much bet you are paying a premium price for a less than premium feed.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

anything that would have corn or soy would more likely than not be GMO, unless you're buying certified organic, but it'll likely be contaminated with GMO pollen (since it's now grown everywhere).

GMO alfalfa is now approved to be grown, so now we all have to be careful with that. sigh...

oats, barley and BOSS are not GMO crops


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

nchen7 said:


> anything that would have corn or soy would more likely than not be GMO, unless you're buying certified organic, but it'll likely be contaminated with GMO pollen (since it's now grown everywhere).
> 
> GMO alfalfa is now approved to be grown, so now we all have to be careful with that. sigh...
> 
> oats, barley and BOSS are not GMO crops


THAT'S PERFECT!!!! That was the mix I was gonna use! Well, I was gonna add corn but, now that is GMO, no corn.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

happybleats said:


> Soy is most likely GMO....BOSS should be ok from what I read...
> 
> My mix has been
> 
> ...


Alfalfa pellets, Calf Manna, and Beet pulp, are all GMO. So I would stay away from that.

Kind of a weird time to ask this..... How does it hurt the animal if it's a GMO feed? What if they eat it?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Alfalfa pellets, Calf Manna, and Beet pulp, are all GMO. So I would stay away from that.


Yes, this is why we are changing our feed :wink:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

a good place to read

http://www.responsibletechnology.org/doctors-warn



> Among the population, biologist David Schubert of the Salk Institute warns that "children are the most likely to be adversely effected by toxins and other dietary problems" related to GM foods. He says without adequate studies, the children become "the experimental animals."[2]
> 
> The experience of actual GM-fed experimental animals is scary. When GM soy was fed to female rats, most of their babies died within three weeks-compared to a 10% death rate among the control group fed natural soy.[3] The GM-fed babies were also smaller, and later had problems getting pregnant.[4]
> 
> ...


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

fishin816 said:


> Alfalfa pellets, Calf Manna, and Beet pulp, are all GMO. So I would stay away from that.
> 
> Kind of a weird time to ask this..... How does it hurt the animal if it's a GMO feed? What if they eat it?


There really isn't much evidence that it DOES hurt the animal. There is just a lot of anecdotal info out there that GMO is bad. Noone seems to realize that we do GMO all the time on things besides animals even. GMO increases resistance to diseases for crops...means that my dad doesn't have to pour as many chemicals onto his fields. Some countries have supposedly banned GMO grains. I honestly do think there needs to be some more testing before it is considered perfectly safe (as a LOT of big companies do claim) but I also don't think it's as big a deal as some think. Kind of like the big scare years ago from using...umm...yep, my memory has gone blank...it was a hormone implant used in cattle. OMG! It causes cancer, etc. You would have had to eat 10 pounds of beef every single day for 30 years to get enough of the hormone used to cause any issue....but...

Yep, I'm gonna get blasted for this one. I'm just giving my opinion and I think there is a lot of "scare tactics" out there over nothing.


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

oh, and since alfalfa is so integral to health, I would suggest going to your local alfalfa grower and ask some questions before buying. much safer than buying the pelleted stuff.... I have to roll the dice b/c my only option is to buy pelleted alfalfa since it doesn't grow here...


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## milkmaid (Sep 15, 2010)

> Kind of a weird time to ask this..... How does it hurt the animal if it's a GMO feed? What if they eat it?


I believe the Roundup used on GM corn damages your intestines, even if GM isn't bad per se.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

milkmaid said:


> I believe the Roundup used on GM corn damages your intestines, even if GM isn't bad per se.


Round Up has been used for YEARS on everything else. And, NO, I don't believe all the chemicals that get used are harmless.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Yep, I'm gonna get blasted for this one


No need to get blasted...we all are intitled to our own opinion!...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Round Up has been used for YEARS on everything else. And, NO, I don't believe all the chemicals that get used are harmless.


Just because its been used for years, doesnt make it safe. Many time the effects dont show for years to come or not connected to the illness or defect...and just because its natural doesnt make it safe...I mean Rat poison is all natural, but we wouldnt eat it lol, Each needs to research and decide how we want to raise our families and animals...where one chooses Chemical wormers, another herbal..niether is wrong, both are a choice...same with our feeds, grains and hays..I feel all the influence man has over how our foods are grown has had dramaitc effectson our health..so we are chooseing to go as natural as we can....however if my family or animals need medication thats not natural to survive, I will give it....


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## Marigold (Nov 18, 2013)

i have been going back and fourth with the idea to feed non GMO feed to my goats as well as my chickens (especially chickens since i will be eating the eggs and my goats arent being milked yet) but i have been having a hard time finding anything that is non GMO and isnt outrageously expensive. Is there any way to go non GMO without having to spend a lot of money? Like are there any feed companies that are better than others even if they arent organic?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Non GMO, organic or kosher...its going to cost. It cost more to produce this clean food source so they have to charge more...maybe not as much as they charge lol..but it is more costly...making changes slowly so you dont feel the pinch so much is a good way to go...Check around, ask local farmers..I would much rather support a local farmer then order out...We are growing our own wheat from very old seed...its slow growing..but its a clean source and we can wait...we plan on planting as much of our own as we can.


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## Marigold (Nov 18, 2013)

around where i live its mostly cow dairy farms, ill have to start asking around tho. I did go to my local feed mill recently and their goat feed was alright but it was mostly corn and soy meal and the chicken feed was just corn soy and limestone and then some vitamins. I am going to start growing some of my own feed but i dont think i have enough land to grow enough for my animals


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## nchen7 (Feb 25, 2013)

you can always ask your feed mill if they have any grains that are un-sprayed (e.g. oats, barley, BOSS, etc...they're not GMO). with chicken feed, you can do a black soldier fly composter and harvest larvae as their feed... pm me if you're interested. I don't know where you are, but it only works during the summer, but you can harvest enough to save over winter and then give them compost to scratch around in...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I am with Carmen on this one. I honestly think there is a lot of false information floating around about GMOs and it's been passed on and passed on and passed on. If you look into the actual facts, it's really no big deal, at least in my opinion. I don't have an issue with it personally. 

I'm also not into organic stuff. It amazes me how much someone will pay for organic stuff vs. non organic. I can tell you a lot of organic crops are very poor quality compared to non organic.


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

KW Farms said:


> I'm also not into organic stuff. It amazes me how much someone will pay for organic stuff vs. non organic. I can tell you a lot of organic crops are very poor quality compared to non organic.


I'm with you on this one. I took some "free range" eggs to my son in VA one time...he told me that the exact same kind of eggs...free range, not organic...were selling for $5 a dozen at a farmers market there!!! HOLY GOATS! I can't understand spending that much. I hear everyone say how much better organic is (can't really disagree on that, except if you look it up...it's marginally better nutritionally) but then they say it's CHEAPER to raise! No, it isn't. AND...you have to be where people will PAY for it. In my area....it's really not worth trying to do because there is no market for it. I know people (not from my area) that will drive 3 hours one way and pay $10 a gallon for "raw" milk! Crazy. I even heard of one lady paying $5 per EGG for duck eggs because she was allergic to chicken eggs! Sure wish I lived closer to some of these people. hehehe

I'm not going to say that all the herbicides and insecticides we use are completely safe...they aren't. But...by the time they reach you, the consumer, the amount of residue is so tiny as to be negligible (for the most part...I understand that there are exceptions). Wash your produce, etc. Learn where your food actually comes from (and don't be taken in by the horrible pics and videos showing the few exceptions that are truly horrible). Learn how grain is raised, etc.

Anyway...getting off my soapbox now. Sorry.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Not to mention the ridiculous amount of hoops that organic farmers have to go through to get certified. I would never want to do organic. 

The whole organic craze is a bit ridiculous to me.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hum I disagree... I have seen how poor quality food can contribute to poor health and how making a few simple changes can better your health...many of the illnesses we deal with daily are food related...Not just GMO or Non Organic..but the whole...Hydtrogentated oils, Processed foods ect... I believe by changing the way we eat, decreasing chemical influences and buy as clean as we can get will only improve our health....while its true there is a lot of hoop la over organic, which in many ways is not the best quality, Kosher is better, we choose from the lesser of the two evils...Find a true organic farmer...or better yet.IMO I rather buy from back yard farmers to choose to go natural, use hertiage seeds ect.. but not necessarly certified organic...:2cents:;-)


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## kccjer (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm not saying "eat processed" "eat hydrogenated"....I agree with you on all that. Changing the way we eat definitely makes a difference in our health. But Kosher (which is truly only a WAY of preparing foods and has nothing to do with organic...google it) or Non-GMO, or organic are way more costly and not necessarily healthier. I personally try not to use a lot of chemicals in my garden (I do buy the heritage seeds for my garden) or my animals. But...if I need to, I will. Find an organic or backyard farmer? Depending on where you live...that is easier said than done. In my area??? LOL Good luck unless you have unlimited funds....


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I am aware kosher is food prepared according to the jewish law, it is also a way they are raised and processed..Im only stating that with a closer eye on how our food is prepared, it most likely will be a better choice ...Of course the down side from what I read is we cant eat Owl LOL:greengrin:


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Organic is A LOT of money. I really don't even were why we NEED to mess this organicness stuff. If it doesn't hurt the animal that you feed it to, why bother? Since, we're getting into showing, and will be using the milk, I didn't want it to affect that. So if it's not gonna make any difference. I'm not messing with it. 

So if I just give them oats and BOSS while they're dry, and oats, barley, BOSS, calf manna and goat chow during milking, that will be fine? I know it's full of GMO and most people would argue about feeding Purina. I don't like most Purina products either, but the ingredients are fine in goat chow. So I think it's fine.

Thanks for your replies everyone!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I feel the less chemical intervention, the better. Can i afford to buy Non-Gmo or organic feed for my goats? Sadly, no...If I have to feed my family and myself GMO/Non organic~ I cannot justify buying it for the animals.

Here is what I do however, My hay comes from a local farmer who just naturally only uses environmentally friendly products (ex:fish protein to fertilize her hay fields). That is the bulk of their diet...the alfalfa and sweet feed I use are probably GM....:sigh: as are probably the beet pulp I give my little Madeline...the chicken feed is locally grown and ground at our feed mill.

For the family? I try to trade as much as possible. I trade poultry for a pasture raised pig,I buy sheep from my friend(also feeds like me),and we raise the rest ourselves as best we can.
Veggies...I get some organic from a friend. I spend a day harvesting and preparing the corn on the cob and she splits it with me.I have a friend who will trade my eggs for her organic heirloom veggies when possible. I am going to (hopefully _soon_) making my own cheeses or at least some from my goats milk. I buy very little pre-prepared foods...we cook a lot.

If I had my way? I would have all organic, locally grown fruits and veggies, for sure. I am a firm believer having one son with OCD,ADD, and Aspergers and a daughter with gluten intolerance, That it is in the food, or how it is processed. There are so many kids out there my son's age with OCD and ADD it is ridiculous,and I have heard that within 10 years most of the population will have issues with gluten...


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## GoatieGranny (Jul 26, 2013)

NyGoatMom said:


> I feel the less chemical intervention, the better. Can i afford to buy Non-Gmo or organic feed for my goats? Sadly, no...If I have to feed my family and myself GMO/Non organic~ I cannot justify buying it for the animals.
> 
> Here is what I do however, My hay comes from a local farmer who just naturally only uses environmentally friendly products (ex:fish protein to fertilize her hay fields). That is the bulk of their diet...the alfalfa and sweet feed I use are probably GM....:sigh: as are probably the beet pulp I give my little Madeline...the chicken feed is locally grown and ground at our feed mill.
> 
> ...


Excellent post!

I have a long story about what food had done to my husband... and how we figured it out and reversed a so called non-curable disease by going with organic, non-GMO and non-processed foods. I think many of you would be shocked by our story. There is much more to this subject than a lot of people know, but I don't feel this is the forum to lay it out... let's just say that we know first hand that chemicals and toxins in food slowly destroy. Nutrients and real food give health.

www.naturalnews.com has a lot of information about GMO foods if you are so inclined to read about it.

We buy our goat and other animal feed from an organic mill that is a couple hours away. We are connected with fellow farmers and goat owners who also order from them. We put together an order, call it in, and they deliver to one of the farms. The rest of us pick up our orders there. We have to order 3000 pounds for them to deliver, and there is a 6 cents charge per pound. Maybe you could network with others who are interested in organic feed and try to work something out if there is a mill within a few hours. It's expensive, but we have found that growing our own food, raising our own meat, milking our goats, eating our eggs, making home made laundry soaps, hand soaps, grooming supplies, etc has saved us so much money that we can afford the organic. I am retired without a pension or SS, and we live on one income. In other words, "where this is a will, there is a way." (Man, I hated it when my parents said that to me growing up. Hahaha.)

Oh, and they have organic/non GMO beet pulp and alfalfa pellets, too!

I rendered fat all day today, and now have shortening/lard for cooking for at least 6 months. Free, from organic beef and wow, it makes great pie crust!


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I have a friend who is very educated in the dept of food and it's consequences on peoples health.(very, very scary)..I think it is great that you do what you do! I will continue to improve our eating habits as much as possible. It's a sin what some companies sell people


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

Awesome website..thanks


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## jackiesme (Oct 16, 2013)

I have severe bowel problem if I don't have my raw goats milk every day. Took my sister getting goats again to find a "cure". 
I feel the further from nature you get the more problems you will have. GMO is not natural. Natural selection is has been going on for ever. It is not splicing genes into something that is not suppose to be. 
I feel the less nature is messed with the better.


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## klburt73 (Nov 1, 2013)

Hiland Naturals ( www.hilandnaturals.com ) makes a nice GMO free goat feed. The challenge is figuring a way to get it shipped to you in manageable amounts. They also make a good GMO free chicken feed, so if you can find neighbors or friends to order a pallet of mixed items it works well.

I have used Purina Goat Chow for some time now; my goats love it for a month then hate it for month. Then repeat. I have really suspected for some time that it is not a consistent taste, which worries me for more reasons than just the taste.

I am leaning toward going back to Hiland Naturals; it is a very nice feed if you don't want the challenge of mixing your own.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

klburt73 said:


> Hiland Naturals ( www.hilandnaturals.com ) makes a nice GMO free goat feed. The challenge is figuring a way to get it shipped to you in manageable amounts. They also make a good GMO free chicken feed, so if you can find neighbors or friends to order a pallet of mixed items it works well. I have used Purina Goat Chow for some time now; my goats love it for a month then hate it for month. Then repeat. I have really suspected for some time that it is not a consistent taste, which worries me for more reasons than just the taste. I am leaning toward going back to Hiland Naturals; it is a very nice feed if you don't want the challenge of mixing your own.


I have been to that website before. The first ingredient in corn, that will be what the feed is mostly made up of. And that is very expensive for us. But thanks anyway!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is another non soy non GMO source for feed..

http://www.texasnaturalfeeds.com/


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## GrubbyGoat (Dec 18, 2013)

I worked in the feed industry for 10 years, and I can say the big brands (Purina, Nutrena and Cargile) all cost formulate. You're better off buying from your small independent mills if you want consistent formulated rations. As far as GMO goes if it contains soy, corn or wheat is is a 85-90% chance of GMO. The bright side, more folks are learning about and demanding non-GMO feeds. Keep talking about it with other producers, mills, granges and your extension agents (remember who pays them though) and let them hear about the increased demand for non-GMO feeds.

Alfalfa is another one that has been highly affected by GMO to be "roundup ready" talk with your hay producers and encourage them to get away from the herbicides and chemical fertilizers, contract your hay early and remember there is power in numbers, split fields with other goat folks.


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## sassykat6181 (Nov 28, 2012)

Don't always trust "organic" as meaning non-gmo. I talked with the grain company I purchase from and he said organic can technically have up to 10% GMO in it If a company sells regular and organic feed, there's a high probability of cross contamination


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## GrubbyGoat (Dec 18, 2013)

Organic is reference to the way it is grown, it has nothing to do with being non GMO. That is the loophole.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Organic is also still sprayed. It's just sprayed x number of times at this certain time in the growth period. I remember when my DH was doing organic hay, he would complain so much about having to clean the equipment between fields. The organic could be sprayed with pesticide but not herbicide, so they would have to make sure that there were no weed seeds on the tractor and spray rig.


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## fishin816 (Mar 4, 2011)

Ya know what, I'm not gonna mess with organic, or non GMO, if it's not gonna hurt the animals, what's the big deal? I'll just give them the feed that we were gonna start with in the first place. 

Oats,barley, BOSS, Goat Chow and Calf Manna, as a milking feed. I know that's full if GMO, but I think it will be fine. 

Bucks and dry does will get oats and BOSS. 

I think that will be fine. 

Thanks for your replies everyone! So much help!


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