# Trouble with FFA wether



## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Hoping Jessica will chime in here, but we're having some problems putting weight on my sons FFA market wether.
He just won't eat the "better" ration. He is getting Purina High Octane power fuel, which he eats easily and actually picks out of the rest. He's also getting my dairy goat ration mixed in
*GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:*


*Crude Protein, min.................................................17.0%*
*(This includes not more than 1.40% equivalent crude protein from non-protein nitrogen, ammonium chloride).*


*Crude Fat, min.......................................................4.25%*
*Crude Fiber, max...................................................7.00%*
*Acid Detergent Fiber (ADF), max...........................9.75%*
*Calcium (Ca), min.....................1.00% - max.........1.50%*
*Phosphorus (P), min..............................................0.50%*
*Salt (NaCl), min.....................0.25% - max............0.75%*
*Copper (Cu), min.........25.0 ppm - max..............45.0 ppm*
*Selenium (Se), min............................................0.35 ppm*
*Vitamin A, min...............................................8,500 IU/lb.*
*Vitamin D, min...............................................2,000 IU/lb.*
*Vitamin E, min....................................................90 IU/lb.*

*INGREDIENTS:*

*Corn Crimped, Oats, Barley Crimped, Molasses Cane, Corn Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles, Black Oil Sunflower Seed, Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Calcium Carbonate, Ammonium Chloride, Soybean Oil, Organic Dried Seaweed Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Salt, Magnesium Oxide, Dried Citric Acid Presscake, Dried Whey, Dried Whey Protein Concentrate, Monocalcium/Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, L-Lysine, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Hyroxychloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Methionine Complex, Manganese Hydroxychloride, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Methionine Complex, Basic Copper Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Copper Sulfate, Copper Lysine Complex, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Ascorbic Acid, Iron Oxide, Natural and Artificial Ingredients.*
.

He just won't eat the Big V ration. He gets fed this separately then goes out with the other young grow outs, which get a way cheaper grain mix, and he eats that and their alfalfa hay leftovers no problem. I only feed all of them about as much as they can eat in 20 minutes.
*-Guaranteed Analysis-*

Crude Protein, not less than 9.00%
Crude Fat, not less than 3.00%
Crude Fiber, not more than 10.00%
Calcium, not less than 0.25%
Calcium, not more than 0.75%
Phosphorus, not less than 0.30%
Salt, not less than 0.70%
Salt, not more than 1.20%
Potassium, not less than 0.45%

We've also tried Senior horse feed and he won't eat that either. The dairy goat ration is well loved by everybody else, stuff is like goat crack.

Any suggestions on something else to try? Purina products are about the easiest for me to get, along with Dumor. I also have access to Big V feeds.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

When i wanted put weight on my mini nub it was suggested to try calf manna added to her feed. All of the goats loved the manna here though. I only added a handful to her feed. But i dont know anything bout feedin show goats so this may not be a good choice for him. Just a thought that whizzed through my brain readin your post.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Purina high octane is very similar to Calf Manna - it's a show supplement. Difference is it's high in fat and lower in protein, whereas calf manna is high in protein.

Budweiser (son named him) just doesn't have any real cover. He has been dewormed and on a coccidia prevention.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Have you taken a fecal just to be sure? 

Try giving him some probiotics and maybe some B-Complex orally (We use powdered probiotics which makes it easy to mix them together in a drench gun).

You can also try a product called Vitacharge liquid boost to help boost his appetite. You might have to keep him off of the other feeds or try offering him the feed before the power fuel. Not really sure what to tell you on that part, it's darned if you do and darned if you don't sometimes with these brats!
I'm not sure how it would go with all that you are feeding, but to add cover, we've given some doe kids Dyne high calorie supplement this summer and it's really helped them gain some weight. They also like the taste. I wasn't trying to put too much on them, but it seemed to help fairly quickly. For about 65-75lb does they were getting a 12cc morning and evening. I think it's 1cc per day or something like that on the bottle. 
I do recommend if you try it that you look for the bottle labeled for dogs, it's the exact same thing as the kind for livestock or horses, just labeled for dogs = dogs = cheaper.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Liquid B vitamin supplement may help, we use Rooster Booster B12 liquid. 
We had one that wouldn't eat earlier this year and ended up with him eating Purina Honor Lamb Show Chow for a few weeks, its more of a sweet feed than the pelleted goat feed. He ate it well and we mixed it with Moormans Amino gains and slowly weaned him off the lamb feed.
Is it hot there? Are you feeding wet?


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Last week was miserable hot (110-112F) and I didn't expect him to wolf down food, even the humans weren't hungry. It's back down to the mid to high 90's, but that's pretty normal for us. Everyone else eats fine, whatever we give them. Everyone else loves that dairy ration, except him.
Yes we ran a fecal, it was very clean, less than 200 egg count, coccidia not noticed on slide, but they've been on prevention due to losing a young kid from coccidia last week.

I really doubt he'll make weight as it is now, since he wants to be a little *insert bad words* and refuse to eat the "good" stuff, vs the cheaper stuff everyone else gets.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

What weight is he now? Whats your minimum weight? How long until weight in?

Have you tried wet feed, maybe add a little molasses? Add oil? Raw oats mixed with feed? Raisins, they're high iron and can help if they are a little anemic, plus they are sweet and some goats see them as a treat, can mix a handful in the feed to try and get them eating.

Maybe try the High Octane Champion Drive? Maybe a little different taste. Although its expensive to get it to try and they decide they wont eat it. 

Forteified B complex shot?

We had one that quit eating early on this summer, he got coccidia even being on a preventative and was eating almost nothing for two weeks, took a lot to get him going again and he is a lot smaller than the others but finally grew and filled out decent.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

He was 31# on Monday - needs to be 50#. County fair is the first week of September, not sure on the weigh in day yet, they haven't even put out the rule book yet, but from previous years, 50# is the cut off. So I don't think it's going to matter at this point, he's been on full feed since the end of June and hasn't put on any weight. He's been vet checked with a fecal and all, nothing wrong with him. 

He hasn't quit eating, just won't eat the better quality stuff. He likes the 9% protein grain, not the dairy ration at 17%, didn't like 14% horse senior feed either. He eats the High Octane no problem, picks it right out. He'll eat alfalfa all day long, what the others leave for him (we have a small pen inside their pen to feed him separately, he's in with dairy doelings) when he gets turned back out after 15 min.
I'm giving the egg drench a shot tonight mixed in with the 9% grain. He's had fortified B complex, and B1. I don't mind giving him shots, I don't care if he hates me. If he won't eat it wet on grain, I'll drench it down him, again, doesn't matter if he hates me.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

Dang it!
September 1 is 37 days, if he would start gaining and eating it may be doable. .51 pounds a day is possible when eating well.

Have you treated for UC ? What does his belly look like? Just trying to think of anything, could have stones making it uncomfortable but not a total blockage. 

We are using the Gail Christian Drench this year, the goats love it and eat it right out of their trough on top of the feed.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

We have a wether we have tried everything with as well and he is still scrawny and awful looking although I believe he will make weight. We finally did calf manna, oats and whole corn added to the show goat pellets he was getting. I also did b shots daily and increased the amount of hay he was getting. He has gained better on this than what he was doing on the show goat feed plus supplements plus drenches. Can you just feed him the cheap stuff and alfalfa hay? Maybe add some whole corn?

What he really needs is fat more than protein anyway if you just want to out weight on and aren't as worried about muscling.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would also do daily probiotics.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I do leave minerals out for them since he's in with dairy doelings, I've never seen him eat them though. He doesn't seem to have any trouble peeing.

The Gail Christian drench is what I tried. He wouldn't touch it over feed, he wouldn't touch the wet feed at all.

Since it's just our county show, I'm not overly concerned with muscling, just that he's heavy enough to make the weight cut off. It's my sons first wether, and I'm not really out anything $$ wise if he doesn't do well, but would be nice if we could take him to the state fair.

Found out tonight he LOVES cheap cattle pellets. I'm thinking we're going to make a trip and try a different approach with small pellets instead of grain, since he's just not crazy over grain. I don't get it, the rest of my herd will beat you up for a handful of grain, because they only get the cattle pellets unless they are nursing or being milked.

I think we'll try the Purina Goat Charge Concentrate, worst case scenario I can feed it to my other young goats if he is going to keep being so picky.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Which of the high octane are you giving? I will have to find the tub but the one we attempted was super high in protein. I want to say it is 25% but don’t quote me but it is pretty high. So if he eats that and the lower of the other he is still ultimately getting more then that 9% protein. Hang on let me go search for that tub and do some math for you. For the cattle pellets make sure there is no urea in it! If it’s good and it’s more protein and fat go for it


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok it’s champion drive and it’s 32% protein. Which him eating it by the way is awesome! I can’t get anything to touch it lol ok so since i don’t know if you are actually measuring anything let’s throw numbers out. If he is eating 1 part octane and 3 parts of the low protein he is actually getting 14.75% protein. 
We totally ditched the whole only feed 2X a day 12 hours apart deal because it is so dang hot! Since he have done that, just short of a month now for a month the goats look MUCH better! So that might be something to consider. If you are pulling just him you can try to give him a friend while he eats. Maybe competition will make him chow down more. 
The egg drench don’t give it to him now. That dyne sounds pretty interesting and Candice is way better at this then I am lol so I would get it (actually I’m gonna get it now lol) but the egg drench should only be given I think (I’m gonna double check for you)2 weeks before the fair to put that last layer on the top. If you give it regularly then it’s really not going to do a whole lot. No it doesn’t make sense to me but 3 different sites say the same thing when I looked into it. 
At this point though I say whatever he wants to eat feed it to him. He may not like the dairy feed because it doesn’t have molasses or it does or more then what the other feed has or less or something as equally dumb. They kinda get stuck on things and it’s hard to change their mind


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

It's the high octane that is 12% protein, but 31-32% fat content. We feed him separate because we have a lamb in with them and have to be careful with the copper content. I can push one of the dairy girls in with him to eat though. I didn't really want the lamb in there, but he just won't leave our ancient Alpine doe alone and keeps nursing off her (plus he's 6 months old), and she doesn't need that since she's having trouble keeping weight on.
It was more of a test to see if he'd even eat it. It's a lot of eggs, but we have chickens so I figured I'd give it a shot. Who would think it would be hard to get a goat to eat? I mean really, the rest of them are all about it.

We found that if my son stays with the little twerp he'll eat.


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## Crazy Little Goat (Dec 30, 2017)

These can be fed together. My goats didn't like the Power Fuel at first, but quickly started eating it right up. The Heavy Weight is supposed to be mixed with water (it's a powder) and then poured on the feed. We fed Heavy Weight to our hogs last year and they did great. I haven't started my goats on it yet.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

I ended up not being able to get the honor goat, they only carry honor lamb at our feed store - TSC is a hike and I don't have time to go that far this week due to work. So I picked up a bag of the 18% Honor Lamb to try out. 
https://www.purinamills.com/show-feed/products/detail/purina-honor-show-chow-showlamb-grower-dx
Probably not ideal, but best I can do without a 45 minute drive one way.

That is the one we have, the Power Fuel 16636 - high in fat, little nuggets, and he LOVES those. The grain ration he eats willingly is for beef cattle.

Our feed store won't carry goat feeds specifically for the most part. Pigs, sheep, and cattle are the major livestock shown here. They told me I'm one of the only people that buys the dairy goat ration they have - and its the ONLY goat ration they have at all - which we already determined Twerp won't eat. That's my new name for him, my son can call him whatever he wants but he's Twerp to me, only because it's more polite than anything else I could think to call him.

We haven't even been able to really get any help with the whole meat goat project so we are just winging it - 4H group doesn't have any meat goats, the FFA advisor can't be bothered with them because pigs were the big thing and they spend all their time and energy helping the kids with hogs for the fair. It sucks but it is what it is, and we don't live in the big goat showing area of the state. I figure we'll get the hang of it.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Sheep feed will be fine. I actually feed my kids a sheep grain because it is way higher protein and fat then goat, plus what I get is textured so the kids start on it sooner. Just keep the minerals out and if you go at this again (or you can still do it now) keep up on copper boluses.
Ideally though what you are giving should be given in the beginning of a show wether because of the insanely high amount of fat. Then a month or 2 you want to change to the one I mentioned. Here is the tag on it








But since the main goal is to just get him to weight don't mess with it and keep him on what he is eating. If you can though get him to eat some calf manna do it. I always have a bag handy anyways and anyone that gets sick or loosing more weight then I like while nursing I'll give to them so if he doesn't eat it it's not a waste. They do wonders with it added in. If you can't find it look for the off brand, milk plus. For some reason it has been hard to get our hands on out here but hopefully it's just a issue for my area


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

Yeah he was more of a last minute "lets do a show wether" for the fair. We just picked him up in June and I banded him the next morning.
I can get Calf Manna no problem, I usually give it to the dairy girls while I'm milking, they like it and it keeps them from getting run down.

He might not have fast growing genetics either. My buck is only a bit older than him and is a solid 70-80 lbs easy.

Seriously, dairy goats are way easier to show. My son does have a dairy girl for back up if his wether won't cooperate so he still gets to show something.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

This might be a nutty thoughht... does he not like the taste or possibly the TEXTURE of feeds? I am such a texture flunkie. So that said. Have you tried crushin any of the grain into smaller pieces to see if he might eat it that way? .


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Sfgwife said:


> This might be a nutty thoughht... does he not like the taste or possibly the TEXTURE of feeds? I am such a texture flunkie. So that said. Have you tried crushin any of the grain into smaller pieces to see if he might eat it that way? .


No that's not a nutty idea! I've bought ones that were on pellets and refused the textures for a long time. I also sold kids that were on textured to a gal that feed SUPER good pellet feed ($30 a bag good!) and they were on strike for weeks. Mine refuse alfalfa pellets but hay is the best thing in the world lol we are dealing with the pickiest livestock ever! 
I would go ahead and see if he eats the lamb food well and if so add the calf manna in, if he rejects it after that then cut it out. You are very right about slow growing genetics! That is a very good possibility. If he doesn't make weight (fingers are so crossed!) look into showing him as a feeder kid. After he can write letters and see if he can find a buyer for him. After every fair around here there are always kids posting about this animal or that that didn't make weight and a lot of companies and people jump on them. They are still doing their good deed or getting a well fed animal for less then they would if they went to the fair if anything because of the less poundage. But if he shows him then he can still say I won X in the feeder class. Depending on your area there may not be that many in the class. The fair my kids go to there is only 1 or 2 every year. The other fair for our area that is in may has a TON because the next fair is only 4 months away so they have the animal and already feeding them


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

Just thinking ...., some of my picky eaters will chow down if I add beet pulp shreds with molasses mixed in,maybe worth a try and not expensive, I have one that must have that plus calf manna in order to eat his ration well.


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## ISmellLikeGoats (Oct 4, 2017)

The texture idea isn't a bad one at all, but I doubt it's that. The grain he will eat and the dairy ration are very similar, the only real difference is there is BOSS in the dairy ration. If I didn't know which one was which, I wouldn't be able to tell the Honor Lamb from the "cheap" grain he does like.
We moved some of the young ones around. Kicked the lamb out to the pasture, left Twerp in with 2 dairy doelings. Gives him some competition to eat, as the girls are pushy. 

Looks like he'll eat the lamb feed though. While it's hot here, their pen has a lot of shade, coolest place on the property. 

I'm not sure if we even have a feeder class, it would be nice. They have a spring stock show in February and then county fair in Sept. State fair is the week after county. 
Going to bathe and clip him later on today, so it has time to even out. I'm not the most adept at clipping and usually have to go back over spots a few days later or find places I missed. I can always do a touch up in a couple of weeks, but would rather not have clipper marks all over him


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