# LGD Alternative



## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

I just lost my LGD and am concerned about my exposed goats. My husband and I aren’t the most skilled when it comes to dogs (although we try hard!), and would prefer to not have to train another puppy. I don’t have experience with Llamas or Donkeys (I’ve owned horses though) but am more than willing to learn. In our area we have big and bold coyotes and now (thanks to wildfires) we have bobcats, mountain lions and bears. We live in the middle of a field so I’m not as worried about the mountain lions or bears. Our LGD wasn’t traditional, he was a Golden Retriever and Mini Aussie mix who just really liked our goats and was calm enough that we eventually just penned him with them. Before he lived with them, we had coyotes coming onto our property almost daily. I now have Nigerians (and expensive ones) instead of Nubians and am concerned they will get eaten if I leave them out at night. For now, they’re being penned in the currently empty pig pen but we planned on getting a pig in a few months so that won’t last forever. I can buy more hog panels (coyote proof fencing) and make a pen for night, but that’s going to be expensive and take time. We’re talking about electric fencing for outside their fence, but I don’t know what to buy. Any insight about life without a Guard Dog would be extremely helpful!!


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I’ve heard donkeys are good guardians.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

If you are considering a guardian animal, try to get one who is already proven with goats.... I am not confident personally due to coyotes and bobcats here, so I choose to pen at night.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

goatblessings said:


> If you are considering a guardian animal, try to get one who is already proven with goats.... I am not confident personally due to coyotes and bobcats here, so I choose to pen at night.


So not every donkey or llama will make a good guardian? I was afraid of that. Most people around here use dogs so there's not many other animals floating around. How do you pen at night? I have a kennel, but it's tiny compared to the pig pen, which is tiny compared to their normal pen. If I make a pen for night, I'm going to have to make a shelter and separate kidding pen too. It'll be expensive but probably less than a good experienced LGD puppy. The other problem is that these coyotes are bold, have a very large pack, and are HUGE. I saw one the size of my large German Shepherd and they are frequently seen during the day checking out the squirrel holes.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I made a three sided shelter (for my bucks) out of leftover lumber and siding. Put a gate across the front of that and have a pen that encloses the shelter made out of cattle panels - or you could go with electric. I have separate kidding pens. It can be a bit $$ starting out, - look for farm sites on FB - lots of people will sell leftovers for a reasonable amount. Yes - not all donkeys, llamas, etc like or get along with goats. And..... you don't have to feed, vet or train your pens and fence.


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## healthyishappy (Mar 6, 2019)

Chelsey said:


> I saw one the size of my large German Shepherd and they are frequently seen during the day checking out the squirrel holes.


Sure they ain't wolves??? mg:


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Here's my "LGD".... he's not actually an LGD, but he chases away any creatures that come near the goats. He chases the goats too though. But I think he just wants to play with them. I still wouldn't let him in their enclosure though haha.










Honestly, I want to get one of these signs just for fun... I already have one that says "beware, guard cat on duty"


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

With those predators, I think you can't do without a trained livestock dog. Can you find adults rather than pups?
I don't remember where you live... I have a pair that need a herd.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

mariarose said:


> With those predators, I think you can't do without a trained livestock dog. Can you find adults rather than pups?
> I don't remember where you live... I have a pair that need a herd.


I have a friend in TN, she may be interested. She's in driving distance of Nashville  now sure how close to you that is.


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## Morning Star Farm (Sep 26, 2018)

Chelsey said:


> I just lost my LGD and am concerned about my exposed goats. My husband and I aren't the most skilled when it comes to dogs (although we try hard!), and would prefer to not have to train another puppy. I don't have experience with Llamas or Donkeys (I've owned horses though) but am more than willing to learn. In our area we have big and bold coyotes and now (thanks to wildfires) we have bobcats, mountain lions and bears. We live in the middle of a field so I'm not as worried about the mountain lions or bears. Our LGD wasn't traditional, he was a Golden Retriever and Mini Aussie mix who just really liked our goats and was calm enough that we eventually just penned him with them. Before he lived with them, we had coyotes coming onto our property almost daily. I now have Nigerians (and expensive ones) instead of Nubians and am concerned they will get eaten if I leave them out at night. For now, they're being penned in the currently empty pig pen but we planned on getting a pig in a few months so that won't last forever. I can buy more hog panels (coyote proof fencing) and make a pen for night, but that's going to be expensive and take time. We're talking about electric fencing for outside their fence, but I don't know what to buy. Any insight about life without a Guard Dog would be extremely helpful!!


If you had an LGD in the past and don't want to train a puppy, you could look for a mature fully trained dog. That's what I did because I did not want to deal with a puppy. I'm actually selling my LGD now because I don't have any more goats, but she adapted very well when I bought her and was amazing with predators. I had expensive Nigerians too. It was wonderful to have a dog who knew what to do and could teach me.

If you do get a donkey, you need to make sure it's good with goats and very alert. I had one and she was fine with goats but could care less if anything came in the pasture. She completely ignored bobcats and coyotes. Now I have had people who have had success with small herds killing packs of course, but they have to be good guardians to begin with. Also, a mountain lion can easily kill one donkey by itself. Of course they can kill a dog too, but their main defense is their bark. I didn't even see any more coyotes after I got my LGD. Before I got her, they had been jumping in my fences. Good luck in finding the perfect guardian for your herd! It sure makes you a lot more comfortable when you know your animals are well guarded!


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

mariarose said:


> With those predators, I think you can't do without a trained livestock dog. Can you find adults rather than pups?
> I don't remember where you live... I have a pair that need a herd.


I would've loved to be able to buy your dogs, or herd, or even property! I tried to convince my husband to buy your little homestead, but we're not ready right now. We live in Northern California (actually, not far from Toth, but farther North) and plan to move out in another year.

There's always lots of LGD breeds for sale, but they're usually puppies from people who realized they could make money off their untrained dog, or young adults that were bought as pets. It's not very often that someone offers a well trained dog for sale.

I'm leaning towards hefty hot wire and a very sturdy pen for at night. If a mountain lion or bear decided to break in, I'm not going to be able to stop them, but I don't think that will happen. We had planned on looking at local rescues for a donkey or llama, but it sounds like that's not an option either.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Airline fairs aren't really that bad. 
Where you live those are coydogs and yes, they will figure out how to get to your goats. Where true coyote won't jump in and grab something they can't jump back out with, coydogs don't care. Even the cougar and bear are less dangerous.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I concur. We have a lot of predators. The coydogs are the only ones I'm afraid of. I respect them all, but I'm afraid of the coydogs, and they are not afraid of me.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I too agree.


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## PattyNH (Sep 29, 2018)

Morning Star Farm said:


> If you had an LGD in the past and don't want to train a puppy, you could look for a mature fully trained dog. That's what I did because I did not want to deal with a puppy. I'm actually selling my LGD now because I don't have any more goats, but she adapted very well when I bought her and was amazing with predators. I had expensive Nigerians too. It was wonderful to have a dog who knew what to do and could teach me.
> 
> If you do get a donkey, you need to make sure it's good with goats and very alert. I had one and she was fine with goats but could care less if anything came in the pasture. She completely ignored bobcats and coyotes. Now I have had people who have had success with small herds killing packs of course, but they have to be good guardians to begin with. Also, a mountain lion can easily kill one donkey by itself. Of course they can kill a dog too, but their main defense is their bark. I didn't even see any more coyotes after I got my LGD. Before I got her, they had been jumping in my fences. Good luck in finding the perfect guardian for your herd! It sure makes you a lot more comfortable when you know your animals are well guarded!


Where abouts are you? I've been looking for an LGD...


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## Nudanud (Mar 1, 2018)

I know a lot of people probably won’t agree with this but....I’d use the pig as my Livestock Guardian Animal! 
I know a lot of people say not to raise pigs with goats but I’ve never had a problem with them on the same pasture together. I’m sure it depends greatly on how much time you spend with the animals too but well fed pigs have no interest in killing for sport..too lazy, and if they bond with the goats, bet your bottom dollar no coyote/dog or mix is gonna get anywhere near them. I don’t care how big those suckers are...

We had 3 pigs, mini horse and 4 goats together all last summer on pasture and the Shetland pony was the best of friends with one of the gilts. 
I don’t know a lot about horses but our Shetland also makes a pretty mean guardian...from what I’ve been told, that’s pretty much a true blue personality trait in those. So maybe that’s an option instead of a donkey.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't have a guard animal so I can't help you there but if you decide to go with hot fence, even if you do get a guard animal, I swear by this unit
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...itemguid=7564bb0c-5655-435e-abf5-ad7c2465c94a
It is MEAN! I actually originally got it because I was going to kill my bucks if I had to fix fence one more time but it ended up stopping 2 dogs that were trying to get into the goats. So now it's also used to keep things out. I have touched it before on accident and I thought for sure I blew my stomach out. I've had other chargers over the years and have been nailed by them and it has always been more scary then hurt but this one hurts.


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## Chelsey (Dec 7, 2018)

The idea of a pig is interesting @Nudanud! There's wild pigs around here and I know the coyotes give them a wide berth. We are planning on getting a a pig this fall and while I can't put it in the goat pasture cause my children go in there to pet the goats (and I don't trust full size pigs, they can be mean) and the fencing is definitely NOT pig proof, I can move the pig pen closer to the goats and maybe pretend that they're in the pasture. Thank you @Jessica84 for the recommendation on a charger! I need one that packs a punch for the outside. I have a smaller one that I'll probably use on a portion of the fence because my kids visit the goats often and I don't want my toddler getting hit by the big one, but I don't want the goats exposed at all.


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## Robinsonfarm (Jul 17, 2015)

LGD really are bred and raised for their purpose, they have the instinct naturally. 
Too many times donkeys are fine for weeks, months years then they snap and end up harming or killing livestock. 
Finding an adult pair of LGD is your best option, with the large predators you really need more than one dog if at all possible.


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