# Udder filled with red fluid



## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

I have a Nubian doe that kidded first of March. Kids have been weaned for at least 4 months. I've been trying to dry up the doe with no success. There is an issue though, she has an elongated udder. I've heard it called a detached udder. It almost reaches the ground. She had had good milk when nursing, but I have not been able to get her udder to go down. I've milked it twice and gotten a half gallon of red clear fluid out of it. I had the vet see her and was treating her with LA200. That was about 3 months ago. I started treating her with Today yesterday morning. She doesn't tolerate milking that udder because it also has stringy globules that plug up the orifice making it very painful. A friend made me a pump milker so that I'm not squeezing that udder. There is no teat to hold onto, just a big long udder. I feel so bad for her and hope someone has some insight for me. This has been an ongoing problem since I got her. She was one of my first goats and was given to me, I had no knowledge of how it would be to maintain that bad udder. But now I know. I just can't figure out how to get it to stay empty when I drain it. I had left it alone for 3 months and it stays full. Help! Please!


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I hope someone knowledgeable comes along with a better answer... I'm just here to learn. But the goats I have who are hard to dry off have to be, basically, starved to quit lactating. I feed beet pellets on the stand and the rest of their diet is good grass hay. 

I'm wondering if an udder support might help your girl. 

And - wondering if your girl is still lactating, or if her udder just has such loose connections that it's not shrinking back up? A half gallon sounds like a lot of fluid for a "dry" udder, though. 

Anyway, sorry for you and your girl going through this! Hope you get some answers and get her feeling better!


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm following too... Sorry no advice, however I wouldn't breed her again.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I agree, wouldn't breed her. Do you have any pictures of her udder or the fluid that you are getting from it? Might be helpful.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

They make an udder "bra" that will help support udder. She may be injuring it 
when she lays down or stands up. The bra will help protect it. 

When you put "Tomorrow" the dry cow treatment (or Today) whichever, be sure and 
milk out as much milk, fluid, etc. Then clean the teat end really well with the alcohol pad and 
just insert the tip of the plastic syringe in the teat. Squeeze the stuff in and then massage the
teat up into the udder. Get that medication up into the actual udder. Massage it around if you can.

I would put a tube into each teat, once every twelve hours for at least 3 days. (6 treatments).


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## NyGoatMom (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree to not breed her again....have you done a mastitis test?


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your concern. My plan is to not breed her again definitely. She had kids on her when I got her. I was able to get her dryed up the first time, and thought I could manage that udder by being diligent about keeping it milked out if I bred her again. So this was my first batch of kids from her. She had 3 for me. I'm disappointed that I can't breed her again. I haven't done a mastitis test. I did treat her though and it cleared it up at one time. But the problem with that udder filling up everytime with the red fluid just has me baffled. I've only had goats for couple years, so still learning the basics. As with any animal, there is always so much to learn. I have pictures but I can't seem to get them uploaded.


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

Sounds like a king h*ll case of mastitis to me. If you can't get it cleared up might want to junk her.


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm treating for mastitis. I know she would be culled by most, but I'm just trying to give her every chance I can. If I can get her udder to stay empty I will just be giving her a home for as long as she lives and not breeding her.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Posting for OP - this is a pic of the fluid milked out the first day.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

harleybarley said:


> Posting for OP - this is a pic of the fluid milked out the first day.


I have never seen anything like that.. Hopefully someone here has that will pitch in...;(


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Is the stuff on top foam?

How does her udder feel before and after you milk? Tight and full? Or more like a wimpy water balloon?


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## Hollowdweller (May 5, 2011)

you may want to milk out really frequently. And give Bo se.

I had a goat that gave milk like that and I gave her antibiotics and milked her 3x a day and she recovered.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would be continueing Mastisis treatment way past the norm...I have not delt with Mastisis but read some cases need a more aggressive treatment...I would also massage with peppermint oil..even make a drench with 2-3 drops peppermint ess. oil to help dry her up...also sage is good...might add it too...you can make a tea to drench, adding the peppermint to the tea...

To use sage tea for decreasing milk supply, infuse 1 tablespoon of dried sage in 1 cup of boiling water (or 20g dried sage in 50 ml boiling water). Steep for 5-15 minutes. Drink 1 cup, 2 – 6 times per day.

You can use a tincture of sage instead: 30-60 drops of tincture, 3-6 times a day.

once she is dry I would run a course of Tomorrow Mastitsis treatment to keep her in the clear...most likely with cases this bad she will freshen with mastisis each time...not breeding her would be wise...

best wishes


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Posting a pic of the udder for OP.


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

Never seen anything like that.. Wow! Are you still getting red fluid from it?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

That fluid looks like bloody serum. Possibly from her constantly injuring it?

Can you have a vet culture the fluid for you? Do a clean "catch" (sanitize the teat end and make sure what you milk her into is sterile) Milk out several squirts first in another container before milking her into the sterile container. Make sure you have not given her antibiotics before milking for the culture. A culture would tell you if you are dealing with mastitis or an injury.

I agree with the udder support to keep that thing from hanging. With no support, it just swings and bounces and irritates.

Depending on how much you want to spend, a vet could do a mastectomy on her and rid her of the problem once and for all. She could be bred at that point, but the kids would have to be bottle fed and she would have to be bred to a buck that is bred for strong udders. She's a pretty thing.

One of my first does ended up with an udder similar to that. She had a gorgeous udder, went champion at several shows as a dry yearling, FF and 2F. I sent her off to be bred to a real nice buck while she was still in milk. Prior arrangements were made so the buck owner would milk her. Well they didn't and she returned to me extremely engorged 2 weeks later. She luckily didn't end up with mastitis, but it sure "blew" her teats. It was like 2 huge deli bologna's hanging from her picture perfect udder. And to add insult to injury, she was accidentally bred to their lessor bred saanen buck instead of their champion Alpine buck. My beautiful Chamoisee doe gave birth to twin white does! She had to wear an udder support to keep her teats from dragging in the dirt (lovingly referred to as Draggin' milk). None of her daughters had that awful teat breakdown, so it wasn't genetic.


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks Harleybarley for posting the pictures. I have been getting less and less red fluid so hoping I'm on the right track. I'm just worried that if I have to continue to milk this out when it clears up she will start producing milk again. I am going to check into the mastectomy as an option. Will also try the sage treatment. Good idea to have a culture done. If it doesn't clear up I will do that too. This has been quite a learning experience. 

I agree Lottsagoats1 that the probable cause is injury because the thing does swing around when she walks and runs. She hops lifting her leg up to try not to bang it. It had gotten too big to even use an udder support, but if I can get it shrunk down and stay that way an udder support would be a good idea. That's a sad story about your doe. I'm wondering about the udder support, do you know of a good website to look for one? 

Thanks again for all the support from everyone!


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

Hoegger sells udder supports for about $50. Some people make their own, google for ideas.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

there are many pattern ideas....be sure to buy or makea breathable fabric that dries quick...I would have a few to change out...a support will be a great idea for her..

best wishes


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

This may or may not play a part in what's going on, but are you using a milker on that teat? I'm kind of thinking that might be damaging the teat further if so... I could be way off base, but I use a milker on my does and I have to be very careful not to burst a blood vein, and it does sometimes cause damage to the teat...


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

Janeen128 I used a milker twice. She had the red fluid before I starting using it. I was trying to milk her by hand and it was so painful to her all the squeezing where there is not actual teat, she was fighting me terribly, jumping in my lap, kicking stepping on my hands, arms and legs. I was al bruised up from trying. But I knew I had to get that stuff out of there for her own good. That's when a friend made me the hand pump milker. It worked great. With the exception of having to unhook and hand squeeze out the stringy tissue like substance that would clog up the opening. That's the part she hated. I got a half gallon off each time. Once the flow started it was amazing. She tolerated it so much better. Now that it's shrunk down she lets me milk by hand. I hold it in my palm and squeeze the end. It's not like milking a normal udder. I get about a cup out now and it's not as red and clear. There's still a lot of tissue like stuff but not as bad. 

Harleybarley you asked what the udder was like when empty.....before this it was like a deflated balloon, flat and half the length. But now it has some hard masses inside. I hope those won't be permanent. But at least it's not like a huge sausage. She has to be more comfortable. 

I do have a California Mastitis Test (for cows), but reading the instructions I am unsure how to use it for goats. 

This site is great! I really appreciate all the input. I don't feel so alone and helpless now. Should have posted a long time ago. Joy


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## janeen128 (Dec 31, 2012)

jdunton said:


> Janeen128 I used a milker twice. She had the red fluid before I starting using it. I was trying to milk her by hand and it was so painful to her all the squeezing where there is not actual teat, she was fighting me terribly, jumping in my lap, kicking stepping on my hands, arms and legs. I was al bruised up from trying. But I knew I had to get that stuff out of there for her own good. That's when a friend made me the hand pump milker. It worked great. With the exception of having to unhook and hand squeeze out the stringy tissue like substance that would clog up the opening. That's the part she hated. I got a half gallon off each time. Once the flow started it was amazing. She tolerated it so much better. Now that it's shrunk down she lets me milk by hand. I hold it in my palm and squeeze the end. It's not like milking a normal udder. I get about a cup out now and it's not as red and clear. There's still a lot of tissue like stuff but not as bad.
> 
> Harleybarley you asked what the udder was like when empty.....before this it was like a deflated balloon, flat and half the length. But now it has some hard masses inside. I hope those won't be permanent. But at least it's not like a huge sausage. She has to be more comfortable.
> 
> ...


Oh, that makes sense... I hope she clears up for you


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I've never had a lumpy udder, but that's stuff going wrong inside. Inflammation or scar tissue. If I had a goat with lumps, I'd probably massage with peppermint oil (I keep peppermint udder salve around) to try to gently break up the lumps. 

Are you checking her body temp for systemic infection?

CMT works the same on goat milk as cow milk, except that it reacts a little more to normal goat milk. Like, a cow +1 result is a goat 0. It's supposed to show somatic cell count (SCC), and I assume that blood is a somatic cell, but it wouldn't hurt to see how it reacts. If it goes thick the first time and gets thinner later, it would show you're reducing the SCC.

Are you using a teat spray after milking? 

Are you still doing the mastitis treatment? 

Sometimes the milkers are the easiest thing for the goat. I'm glad you're having progress! Half the size and a fraction of the volume - that's a huge improvement.


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## jdunton (Jun 23, 2013)

I do use the peppermint oil to massage. Truthfully, I haven't checked her temperature because she doesn't seem sick. She looks fine other than that. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea though. 

I haven't looked at the CMT in awhile, but I remember when I got it I couldn't determine the mixing ratio. Or if I was supposed to mix up the entire bottle and how long will it keep once it's mixed. Those are some things I remember about trying to use it awhile back. 

I am dipping after milking and still using the Today, but not everyday now. Because I don't milk it out everyday anymore. There's not much that I get out of there. 

She's definitely more willing to jump up on the milkstand now. So that's a plus. That was another fight was getting her up on there to take care of it. 

What an ordeal!! I'm trying to do the best for her as I can and I think I'm making progress.

Thanks for the help.


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## Wild Hearts Ranch (Dec 26, 2011)

How does the udder feel - hot, cold? That looks like what I got from my doe when she had gangrenous mastitis. I agree that mastectomy might be the best option for her, if you have an affordable vet.


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## harleybarley (Sep 15, 2014)

I was thinking the spray might be cooling, and it's supposed to help the orifice close.

If you don't have the bottle that comes with the CMT, it's hard to figure the mixing ratio. The bottle has a line for the concentrate and a line for the water, and that's all they tell you. I mix it with distilled water so it will keep longer. 

Sounds like she's on the mend, so probably not a systemic infection, but a temp wouldn't hurt with such a gnarly case of mastitis.

If there isn't much coming out, it might be time to infuse and leave be? Is it still bloody and chunky?


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