# urinary calculi emergency, some questions



## merlinsmuse (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi, I'm new here and it seems that I joined just in time. I have a wether, 1 year old with a partially blocked urinary tract. Hunched back, straining to pee, grinding his teeth, laying down alot. But thank goodness, still able to dribble and have narrow stream. I gave him shot of banamine for pain and to help relax, aspirin for anti-inflammatory, apple cidar vinegar, and took him off grain.

I live in Canada and ammonium chloride is very hard to find. I ordered some but when it came in the mail, the container says it's lab grade, not food grade. Is there a difference? I'm afraid to use it in case it does more harm than good. I think I know a place where I might be able to find some tomorrow, but is there anything else I can do for him in the meantime?

Thanks for any help or advice. My guys are all loved and spoiled pets. I hate to see any of them in pain.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm not sure if there is a difference in the lab grade. :shrug: 

But could you get some from your vet? If not try a small animal vet. They usually have the pill form on hand. 

Can you tell if the stone is in his Pizzle? If so then you can cut the pizzle off.


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## merlinsmuse (Apr 11, 2010)

I tried to get his pizzle out, but wasn't able to. I'll do some checking around first thing in the morning to try and find some ammonium chloride. I know I tried before and had a difficult time. Most people hadn't even heard of it, though on the internet it's all over the place. But if I ordered it from the U.S., the shipping cost would be phenomenal. Thanks for the advice. I really wish I could find out if the lab grade is usable. Oh, well, he's okay for the night, cause he's still peeing a little, so I'll get on things first thing in the morning.

Cathy


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

can you get pectin? you can fruits with the stuff. If so give him 2 tablespoons of it (mix with water and drench)

never heard of the different grades -- mine doesnt say food grade on it so I wouldnt know :shrug:


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## merlinsmuse (Apr 11, 2010)

I might be able to get pectin at the store tomorrow. Jeesh, I hate it when something happens and all the stores are closed. I usually have what I need on hand, but not for this. *sigh* I won't sleep tonight worrying about the poor guy. I'll try the pectin if I can't get ammonium chloride.

Thank you,
Cathy


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

Out of curiosity, what does the pectin do?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

pectin, is in all fruits....Fruit Fresh is a big brand thats used to keep fresh apples, peaches etc from turning brown due to the high acid in it.


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Well, if he is still passing urine that is good! :hug: Your doing all you can.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

liz said:


> pectin, is in all fruits....Fruit Fresh is a big brand thats used to keep fresh apples, peaches etc from turning brown due to the high acid in it.


OK I understand now. This helps acidify the urine and dissolve the stones. I will keep a supply of it just in case I ever need it.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Cathy, do you have a update for us? Please tell us you have good news.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that 'Lab grade' means it has been tested in a laboratory and they have approved it for use in treating UTI's or stones. 'Food grade' means you can use it on food animals. Since it says that it is not 'food grade' do not use it if you are planning to eat him . . . unless you can find a meat withdrawal time (or you can call your vet and get him/her to tell you a withdrawal time for it . . . if there is one).

It's practically impossible to retrace the penis of a wether. The vet needs to sedate him in order to get him to relax enough to allow it to be extended. 

If he is partially or mostly blocked already it doesn't sound like a problem that you can fix. I would take him to the vet tomorrow and have him/her amputate his pizzle, flush him out, or do whatever needs to be done. A blocked bladder is a medical emergency and I wouldn't risk it. :hug:


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Cutting off the pizzle is actually not that traumatizing. I did it on a goat before and really it's more traumatizing to us than the goat. If the stone is in the Pizzle, like in the case I helped treat, they will feel relief right away and pee like there is no tomorrow! lol. 

I would be concerned about bladder rupture too, but he is peeing some, so that is good.


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

Should owners (of bucks and wethers) be giving amon. chloride daily as a preventative?


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## cdtrum (Aug 25, 2008)

I keep AC mixed in my minerals and I also buy a grain with it in it.....although my 4 wethers get very little grain, I grain them more in the winter and then back off from it in the summer.....I know I'm overly cautious, but I watch every day when out with my boys to see that they are all urinating with a good stream.

I hope you boy gets better soon :hug: , I worry about UC all the time with my boys.


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

Were do you get the ac? Do you top dress the small amount of grain or just mix it in the free choice minerals?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

Hoeggers goat supply carries the AC, mix 1lb of it to 25lbs minerals....or you can get minerals with it added, Manna Pro is one that has it mixed in already.


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

Someone in our 4-h group said they give it in adrench. Does anyone do this?


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

it's given as a drench for treatment, not prevention...unless you are drenching a small amount EVERY day, mixing it in the minerals is the easiest way to go.


How is your wether merlinsmuse?


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## RunAround (Feb 17, 2008)

Mine get AC every day. It's premixed in their grain.


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## Shelly Borg (Nov 2, 2009)

They are finding out that what is in the grain mix is not enough to even counter the grain that you are feeding. I do not grain, feed only grass hay and brouse and supplment with a dail drench.


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## 4kids (Jul 21, 2009)

My three buclings get about 1/2 cup grain mixed with boss (total) a day. Should I completely let this go and just feed hay? or just feed sunflower seeds?


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

RunAround is right, snipping off the wiggly bit on the end of the penis (its called the urethral process) is not that traumatic an experience for the wether. 

Its difficult but not impossible to extend the penis of a wether. Its much much harder than in a buck - and you usually cant extend it fully but you can extend it enough to get to the urethral process. 

Its a simple enough procedure and you can do it yourself, at home. I have removed quite a number of urethral processes and also performed a perineal urethrostomy on a wether who was blocked at the sigmoid flexure - you dont want to try that one at home though, thats a job for a vet. But certainly taking the urethral process off, you can do at home, and I'm sure I've posted detailed instructions for doing it here, at some point in the past.


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## merlinsmuse (Apr 11, 2010)

Wow, lots of information going around. I just got back from buying a bag of ammonium chloride and drenched Lightning. He's still dribbling and getting a small stream now and again. Doesn't seem to be straining or hunching as much and isn't grinding his teeth. Of course, this could be the banamine I gave him. 

It's the minerals that caused the problem in the first place. In Canada it's impossible to buy minerals that are goat specific. I'm feeding them cow minerals and the calciumhosphorus ratio is 1:1, which I know is not good. Even the one place I could find that has goat minerals still has a ratio of 1:1, because most people around here have does or bucks, and it's not a problem. I need to find a solution, other than just adding the ammonium chloride to their food. I need to do somehting about the minerals. Heck, it's taken me a year to find a place that actually has ammonium chloride, no one has ever heard of it. When I went there this morning, it took him 1 minutes to find the one bag they had and he ended up giving it to me at cost, because the bag was rather well worn because it had been sitting around for awhile. At least I now know where I can buy it.

It's so frustrating. I ordered a bag of the manna pro minerals a while back and my guys absolutely loved it, but the shipping costs from the States is twice the cost of the minerals.

Anyway, my vet is waiting for a phone call in case she has to come out and cut off his pizzle. In the meantime, as long as he's got action going on, I'm hoping he can pass them himself. Fingers crossed that the ammonium chloride works.

Oh, another question. I'm hearing two different things about giving him water. Some say lots to help flush out the stones, other people say no water at all. I would be of the mind that as long as he's peeing something, water is a good thing for him. If he blocks 100%, obviously water would not be a good thing. Any thoughts?

Thanks everyone, I'm watching him closely.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

He's peeing, give him as much water as he'll drink...you can even add some apple cider vinegar to it to entice him and the vinegar will acidify his urine as well.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

liz is right . . . if he's still peeing ok then give him lots and lots of water with apple cider vinegar . . . if he stops peeing stop all fluid intake and take him to the vet ASAP! We have a saying at the clinic "never let the sun go down on a blocked animal"


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## myfainters (Oct 30, 2009)

I have cured Urinary calculi problems by drenching with 7-8 vitamin C tablets. (This was with a buck that was already screaming, hardly urinating and had blood in the small amount of urine that he did pass.) A a precautionary I crush vitamin C in with my boys feed pellets every 2-3 weeks.


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## kornhypknotic (May 15, 2009)

If you see his peeny come out at all grab that sucker and check it out! lol!  If necessary amputate his pizzle yourself, but I would let a vet do it if I were you


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## Amy Vaughn (Jan 9, 2019)

myfainters said:


> I have cured Urinary calculi problems by drenching with 7-8 vitamin C tablets. (This was with a buck that was already screaming, hardly urinating and had blood in the small amount of urine that he did pass.) A a precautionary I crush vitamin C in with my boys feed pellets every 2-3 weeks.


My buck has UC is this regular human vitamin c crushed?


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Amy Vaughn said:


> My buck has UC is this regular human vitamin c crushed?


Yes it is. And welcome to TGS. 
:groupwelcome:
Anything acidic will help here, possibly, depending on the severity of your problem.

This is a really old thread and the powers that be don't like reviving them. Probably because old info can confuse new owners, because what we've learned has changed.

Please feel free to open a new thread with what you need us to comment on...

P.S. I'm not a power-that-be. I'm just really mouthy.

Again, :groupwelcome:


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