# Are kids coming soon? Doe off feed.



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I have a Nigerian Dwarf doe who is about 6 years old. She was and 'oops' so we don't know when she was bred. She lost her plug about a month+ ago, and had a bit of an udder. Yesterday her udder doubled in size and she will not eat her hay, but everything else. She's become really crabby and laying down and grunting a lot. Should we move her to the birthing stall? Should I camp out with her? She's only got one kid (ultrasound) so I want to be there to assist if I need to..


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## Wellspring_Goats_Guardian (Mar 4, 2013)

Defiantly sounds like its the day, is she arching her back at all, sort of like contraptions?


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## sandhillfarm (Feb 25, 2013)

Good luck!!

Sent from my iPad using GoatSpot


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Nothing this morning. Gunna move her, she has a distant look in her eyes and won't let me touch her, which is not normal for her. 
She hasn't been arching her back but she sure looks tense and uncomfortable.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she is getting close...happy kidding : )


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

She was picking at her hay.. She has all the other signs of impending labor but she's not completely bagged up.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Check her temp, she may be sick. You will know after getting the temp for sure.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay, normal temp is 101-104, right?


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## pubgal83 (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes 101.5 to 103.5


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## imthegrt1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Show some pics of her now .
like to compare to mine who is also due any day.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Her temp is low.. 99.4. What do I do?


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

try some calcium, also nutra-drench or propolyn glycol, molasses or karo..something to bring her sugar up


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

We have molasses and karo I think. Not sure about calcium. How much to we give her? I think she is a bit weak because she tried to run away (not her usual) and she slipped and it seemed as if she couldn't get her legs to hold her up for about 20 seconds.. Scary. Not sure what to do.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she could be suffering from pregnancy toxemia ..I would start off with about 2 tablespoon molasses...I prefer it over karo only because it does have some nutrients...If you have tums..begin giving her some..
here is a helpful link on PT...
http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_Ketosis or Pregnancy Toxemia in the Doe.pdf


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

here is a bit more info...its from tennessemeatgoats she has more "what to do " info..

Pregnancy Toxemia can occur within the last six weeks of pregnancy and is caused either by underfeeding (starvation toxemia equals an energy shortage) or overfeeding. A doe's nutritional balance is critical during this time frame. Feeding too much grain or feeding the wrong kinds of grain is usually the culprit. During these last weeks of pregnancy, a doe has little room in her body for lots of grain, fast-growing fetuses, and the amount of roughage (grass hay) vital for proper rumen function. A goat goes off-feed when it doesn't get enough roughage. Huge stores of body fat plus a uterus full of fetuses set the stage for Pregnancy Toxemia. Symptoms of Pregnancy Toxemia include off-feed, dull eyes, slow moving, general weakness, tremors, teeth grinding, stargazing, leg swelling, and coma. When fetuses die, toxemia results from the decaying bodies inside the doe and she also dies. All of this happens because of improper feeding by the producer.

When Pregnancy Toxemia occurs, a dramatic change in feed will not solve the problem. Instead, divide her grain into three or four small meals each day. *Make sure that she eats a lot of top-quality grass hay. Leave fresh, clean water out free choice. Also offer some warm water laced with molasses or apple juice to encourage water consumption. The doe needs to drink a lot of water to flush toxins from her kidneys. An occasional handful of alfalfa hay may prove helpful. Proplylene glycol dosed at 60 cc orally twice a day can be used, but this product is hard on her kidneys and goats usually don't like it. An alternative to propylene glycol is a combination of 50% dextrose diluted with an equal amount of water and given orally at a rate of 60 cc twice per day. Molasses and water or Karo syrup and water can also be used. Get both Vitamin B12 and Fortified Vitamin B Complex into her, and orally drench her with GoatAde (www.goatsupplies.com). Feed the doe as many green leaves as she will eat; in off-growing season, pick dried leaves and offer them to her free choice. Oral administration of CMPK or MFO is desirable.* Niacin at a rate of 1000 mg per day is helpful. Daily dosing with Goat Guard Probiotic Paste is advisable (www.goatsupplies.com). Moderate exercise is essential; do not allow the doe to be inactive.

A good preventative measure for both Pregnancy Toxemia and Ketosis is to offer molasses-based 20% protein sheep-and-goat blocks free choice to all pregnant does. The energy available from the sugars in these blocks goes a long way towards counteracting possible nutritional problems. Buy the 33-pound sheep-and-goat blocks because they do not have minerals that slow down ("limit") consumption. Make sure that the sheep-and-goat blocks do not contain urea or non-protein nitrogen. Use these blocks as supplements to whatever else is being fed. A goat's ability to overeat on these blocks is almost non-existent. Offer loose minerals made for goats on a free-choice basis; the does will eat the goat minerals as they need them. This is a good example of a situation where a combination block is not desirable. One size does not fit all.

Ketosis describes conditions similar to Pregnancy Toxemia that occur once kidding has taken place. If the pregnant female does not receive adequate amounts of proper nutrition to feed both herself and her unborn kids, when she begins the kidding process or has just completed kidding, her body will draw upon stored fat reserves in order to produce milk to feed her babies. Then her own body tissues begin go into starvation mode and deadly ketones are released as by-products of this process. A quick way to diagnose Ketosis: a doe with sweet-smelling urine is ketotic. Ketosis test strips can be purchased at pharmacies; they are an over-the-counter product but usually have to be requested. Placing a ketosis test strip in a urine stream results in a color change that identifies if Ketosis is present. Tip: A goat urinates and then defecates when it first stands after having been in a sitting position for some time.

Treatment is the same as described above for Pregnancy Toxemia. Bringing a doe back from Ketosis is difficult; death is often the result. Prevention of Ketosis is simple. Feed her properly during pregnancy and after kidding. Ketosis -- like Pregnancy Toxemia -- is caused by improper feeding by the producer.


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

Hope all goes well!! toxemia really scares me hoping I never have to deal with it


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Alright, I'll get her some molasses. Currently we only have timothy hay, should we get her some alfalfa too?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay gave her about two table spoons with a pinch of ground espresso coffee. Hopefully that will help. How often should I do this and how many tums should I give her? Not sure if we have kids or adult tums, I'll take dosing for both.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm so scared. I don't want to loose her.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

A little Alfalfa will help
1 tums per 10 pounds...
she really needs CMPK ORAL SOLUTION which is a calcium supplement or calcuim drench from tcs..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

for molasses lets go with Tenensseemeat goats on this 
combination of 50% molasses diluted with an equal amount of water and given orally at a rate of 60 cc twice per day.

also offer lots of fresh green leaves...


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im sending prayers...I know its scary..read the article and see what you can gather up for her.....keep us posted..there are several here who have helped a lot of folks through Pregnancy Toxemia...many who have survival stories..Sounds like you caught it early on...so we can be very hopeful.... breath deep,..you both have along night ahead of you ..you can do this


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

With sub temp, it could be, her rumen is off. Give probiotics for 3 days and a fortified vit B complex shot as well. You can go longer, if her temp is still sub. Will help with appetite too

Don't feed grain while she is down. Alfalfa is a good hay introduce it slowly.

I agree with giving the calcium, it could be what is mentioned..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Pam is correct...I know it seems like a lot to throw at you...Thiamine is another good med to give her..with the rumen slow she cant make her own..Fortified B complex in a pinch


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay so I made some 'Magic' and gave her some along with the tbs of molasses. So far she's gotten two kids vitamins, her CDT shot, (since she's due soon) and a vit. b shot. She's been being fussy with us so I guess that's good, and she went outside with the other girls. My dad also got some apple juice so I can give her some if she need it. This winter was really cold and wet so I think that has taken a toll on all of them. I'll give her some tums but I don't want to give her too much stuff if she doesn't need it.. Should I put her in the birthing stall tonight and should I stay out wither her? I'm so stressed right now :hammer:


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

It is great she is up and going...keep on top of it..you are doing great.!!...As for kidding stall...if she is showing all the signs of kidding.yes..are her ligs gone, milk in, babies dropped and rear baggy.any discharge?? If she is no where close then relax...: ) check on her often..you are right this weather really takes a toll on them! Keep up the calcium and your Magic mix per instructions...take her temp each time you go to check on her ( kidding pen might make it easier, up to you on that lol) most important....BREATH...RELAX..you are doing great..


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

These folks here are great on looking at pix and giving ideas of how close mom is to kid..take a few back end pix and a few udder shots and post them : ) show the ligs is you can


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Well her ligs are barely there, but her udder isn't as full as it should be. I'm at the library now but when I left she was up in the field eating, she must be feeling a lot better!!!! No drainage but she did loose her plug a while back. I'll snap some pictures when I am back home.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I'd put her in a stall at night, then check on her periodically. 

Glad she is doing OK, keep up the good work.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay, thinking I'll stick our pygmy in there with her, it's still kinda cold. Thanks you guys, I wouldn't know what to do otherwise!!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

good idea...she wont be lonely with a friend : )


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

She could probably care less, she's been super crabby, unless I have fruit or something. Just don't want her to get cold. She's already got enough to deal with!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Still doing good tonight! Going to give her some more Magic tonight.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

thats good news : )


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Yeah, it is!! I'll get some pictures for you guys, hopefully we can guess a due date LOL


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds good..have an awesome night


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

She wouldn't take her Magic, and I really didn't feel like forcing it into her tonight. So I let her have an apple slice instead. She was picking at her hay, though. I got some pictures so I'll try and get those up...


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I got some pictures. Here they are.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

no pics: +


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## goatgirl16 (Nov 21, 2012)

You have to click on the word here to see pics she is pretty big beautiful girl


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Awe she is cute : ) she looks to have a bit to go,...looks like a lot of babies in there lol


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Vet actually did an ultrasound, and we could only see one kid! How long do you think she has?

And thanks for the compliments on her


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

well her bags not full yet..and the kid still looks high, her girly spot is still tight....could be a while...
just love her face...she has a sweet look about her...: ) shes pretty large for one kid..lets hope there are a few hiding i there lol


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I sure am hoping there are more than one.. I don't think that kid would be able to get out.. 
I love her face too. Usually she is very sweet, now she is being a grump lol


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

I would be grumpy too...lol


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Being extra grump and reclusive today, udder looks a little fuller.. My dad votes we are going to get kids tonight. He said "She looks like a triangle she's so big."


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

goose bumps : ) happy kidding


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Think she'll kid soon? She has all the signs of kidding, but her pooch isn't.. um.. swollen? I guess? lol..
I'll get some pictures.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

its hard to know...lol...got to look at all the signs...kids dropped, ligs gone, bag full and strutted..girlie part is loose and swollen..red..goo from her girlie parts..pawing at the grounds..restlessness..up and down...until finally she lays and begins pushing..yep then you will know for sure lol..


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

So I moved her into the birthing stall with our pygmy doe. Her belly is loooooow, maybe 4" off the ground. Got a couple more pictures. She looks kinda to be start gazing, got picture of that, too. Her ligs are gone as far as I can tell.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

sounds like she will kid soon.....star gazing? hum..?? pic would be good


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay I'll get the pics up. She seemed very posty and tense today.


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## pierceingstarr (Nov 13, 2012)

Any news?? Good luck and sending good vibes your way.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

No, sorry about no updates. Though she is getting closer. Bagging up more and lady parts are getting swollen. Pretty much laying down all day. She'll let us know when it's the day


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

okay guys the news you have all been waiting for, I think she's in pre labor!!!! yay! Wish us luck, I am scared she only has one kid like we saw on the ultra-scan. going to sleep in the barn tonight. I will update later


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## still (Mar 16, 2013)

Exciting!!!! Hope it goes well!


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

blessings and good wishes


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Okay so nothing yet but she is grunting, pacing, calling, etc.


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

keep the updates coming!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Just went out there to look and nothing yet..!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

We have babies!!!! :kidblue::kidblue: She had two bucklings, just like last year! 
I went out there so I could go to sleep ( I was planning on staying out there with her) and she seemed a _little_ different so I decided to stay up. She peed, then all the amber goo started coming out, and there was A LOT. 
She was getting very restless, then she finally laid down and started pushing. Saw the fluid sack, I was talking to her, cheering her on, came out a little more, saw the tips of it's feet and then she stopped pushing and it went back in. :hair:
She did this about 5 more times, she would get up and start cleaning, itch herself, etc. Then she finally got to work for real. She got one foot out and I didn't see another. Crap. I was going to have to go in (I had never done that before, my parents were sleeping, the barn is not close to the house) but after a few more pushes both feet were out a couple inches. I decided she was going to deliver this kid NOW so I grabbed on and pulled him out while she was pushing, and got that done in about 10 seconds after 20+ mins of what she was doing herself LOL 
Got the kid out, he's a cute little black and white paint/swiss boy  Brought him around to mom so she could clean him off while I was sticking my finger in his mouth and washing his noes out so he can actually breath. He is going to be a crazy little guy, he was flailing around while he was only half way out!! In less than two mins he is up and starting to walk!  Crazy thing! 
I was helping momma get him dried off, and he started to attempt at nursing LOL Carolina seemed like she was done, but all of a sudden she laid down and started pushing. Went back there to help and as soon as I saw toes I grabbed on, I wasn't waiting another 20+ mins for this kid to be born. I was pulling and the head popped out like normal. But it's tongue was sticking out. In the past that has not been a good sign. It wasn't moving either. I decided I was going to just pull the kid with out waiting for her to push because I was worried and it's shoulders we out. Came out fine. Felt it start to wiggle. Phew!! Brought him around for mom to start cleaning and I went to get a towel to help, but I had used all of them on the first kid because she wasn't acting like she was going to have any more. Normally this wouldn't be a big concern but the kid is a little weak and its 1 PM and cold, so I wanted him dried off. So I ended up using the corners and such to dry him off while momma was cleaning him herself. 
After a few mins he was really trying to stand ( I was rubbing him quite a bit to help stimulate) but it seems like his back legs are still a little weak and wobbly. I didn't see him latch on but he sure is trying and Carolina is making sure to pull him up if he falls over so hopefully he will get some colostrum in him tonight, and be up and walking around in the morning when I got to check on them and get some more pictures. (Which I will upload in the morning; I am too tired to do that tonight LOL) 
The second baby is all black with a white spot on his head. It made me a little said but other emotions I can't describe also after seeing him.. He looks EXACTLY like the kid we lost this year...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Aw congrats on the healthy boys! That's nice the black one looks like the kid you lost! :leap:


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Went out the check on them this morning and they are all snuggled up with each other. Going to go out later and grab some pictures, I will post them on here.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Here are some pics I took after she and I kinda dried them off.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

SO cute!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

So I am 99% sure I am keeping the patterned one for 4H (I think he has better conformation so far) I need to think of a name for him! Going to whether them both, not going to be registered, so it just needs to be short and cute


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## OwnedByTheGoats (Mar 7, 2013)

Pickle
Tom
Adam
Spike
Goliath
Duke
Randy
Doug
Peanut


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## lissablack (Nov 30, 2009)

Good for you! 

Gus.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Babies are still doing good, we have been taking them out on the lawn for a little bit every day so they can get some sun and fresh air. They are already nibbling on hay and grass. Got some cute pics so I need to post them. 

I found the trick of taking pictures of baby goats, at least for boys. Get them while they are peeing! LOL They aren't moving and are all stretched out and look great!


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