# RANT: New Neighbors *PICS ADDED*



## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Hi!

We live in a fairly rural area in Northern California. There are 3 houses on our unpaved country road, which winds down into a little valley from the highway. The house behind and above us is on the highway, but their 10 acres are adjacent to our property.

The former owner of said house passed away, and his kids sold the property recently. Well, we met the new neighbors when we came home to find them installing a livestock fence along the property line, which borders our driveway. When I say along the property line, I mean RIGHT on the edge of our driveway. Granted, it's their property. We are all zoned ag, so they can do what they want. But it's effectively narrowing our driveway.

However, there are a few BIG issues arising:

1. Their new fence is blocking the culvert that diverts rainwater coming down from the highway from flooding our driveway, our pasture, and the back pasture of the folks below us. Blocking this is BAD because when it gets full of detritus, the rainwater gets backed up and washes our driveway gravel completely down the valley. We and our neighbors end up with several inches of standing water in our pastures after even a moderate rainfall which is harmful for my goats, obviously. The water causes tree damage, too, because the ground gets too wet to support the oaks (or causes root damage) and they fall down. BAD.

2. They are planning on running meat goats. I have zero problem with that. HOWEVER, their fence is so poorly constructed (I'll get pics tomorrow if I can) that I don't think it will contain any even slightly curious goats, let alone big meat goats. And escaped goats + busy state highway = bad. And the fence certainly won't contain eager bucks when any of my 4 does are in heat. Can you taste the 31 flavors af BAD here?!

3. We live in a heavily wooded area that includes many predators, including coyote, bear, the occasional wolf, and mountain lions. I have my girls behind electric fencing, and I lock them up every night in a secure barn that is enclosed in more electric fencing. I know a mountain lion can get in, but there are enough deterrents to at least give it pause and consider easier prey. But the new neighbors aren't planning on using electric fencing or any secure night housing, thereby advertising free and easy meals, inviting in our resident mountain lion. VERY, VERY BAD.

4. We caught their standard poodle in our driveway today barking at our goats, who were terrified. The electric fence will keep the dog out of the pasture, but the goats don't know that. And the chicken and duck pasture is adjacent to the goats. I don't think I need to describe what will happen if the dog gets into the bird pasture. I also don't need to describe what I will do to that poodle if it discovers my bird pasture. That would be BAD for the birds, BAD for the dog, and BAD for neighborly diplomacy.

Anyone have a similar problem? Any ideas what I can do to convince them to be a lil more responsible or at least get a lil more educated?

(The fence is SO bad that they joined two stretches of welded wire fencing with three lengths of wire twisted like twist-ties HALFWAY BETWEEN two t-posts, and they are using 5 ft t-posts for 5 ft tall fencing, meaning that the upper 2 ft of fencing has no support)

God help us.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Sorry you are dealing with them. They don’t sound like people who need to own goats. I know @Jessica84 has had neighbor issues and she lives in CA.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh California neighbors, I hear ya sister! 
I would just try the friendly rout first. Let them know about the drain issue. Come at the very nicely and explain it to them, have another solution that might appease to them more then what they have going on. I am having a hard time picturing exactly what is going on there but you catch more bees with honey ya know  in the end though it’s going to be your problem :/ my husband just had to redo a driveway for someone because the way the neighbor made their house pad ended up screwing up their driveway with how the run off goes. They fought it but in the end lost. You can ask around and make sure that is correct in your area, especially since I’m not fully understanding what is going on. 
The Boers, best thing you can do is just reenforce what you have going on. Find out if you are in a fence in or fence out county. Most are fence in and the few of the fence out mainly applies to cattle rather then “livestock”. Ultimately if the neighbor goat comes over and harms or breeds one of your animals they are at fault if it’s fence in, but the damage will still be done and sadly with livestock there is no pay out for sentimental value like a dog just the damage of the animal. So maybe run hot fence on your side of the fence or a few feet in. Whatever you need to do to stop the accidents. 
Wild life again just talk to them calmly. Let them know there is a major predator issue and your just looking out for them. Don’t go at them as if they eat your animals they will eat mine. Be neighborly  if they don’t listen then your going to have to take more prevention measures to keep yours safe. 
I know it’s a pain when someone comes in and screws everything up, try to be nice to start with, if that doesn’t work go to nagging and rude lol that’s usually how it ends with my neighbors but I try at first


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

KY Goat Girl said:


> Sorry you are dealing with them. They don’t sound like people who need to own goats. I know @Jessica84 has had neighbor issues and she lives in CA.


Yeah, I agree. I'm not very experienced, but I did my research and talked to farmers in the area about things like predators, vets, selenium levels, etc. I'd be glad to help, but this guy says he "processed" goats when he lived in the Central Valley - not "raised" or "kept" or "bred" "farmed." Thinking he bought goats and butchered them, but never had to be responsible for their management.

It's hard to explain, too, about where he is installing the fence. It's at the bottom of a hill. It's too dark to get pics, but what'll happen is that leaves, pine cones, branches, etc. will migrate down the hill and catch on the fence. It will build up, effectively shortening the fence. He needs to install it at the top of the berm. It'll still need to be raked out, but not to the degree it will at the bottom of the hill. It will also bow out into our driveway. 

I mean, really?! Common sense, y'all. I'm not the brightest, but the physical problems of the situation are abundantly clear. And we're expecting three days straight of heavy, nonstop rain starting Thursday. We're going to be flooded by Friday afternoon.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Gosh that definitely sounds bed! I’m sorry your having this trouble! I hope they learn quick before anything really bad happens


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh California neighbors, I hear ya sister!
> I would just try the friendly rout first. Let them know about the drain issue. Come at the very nicely and explain it to them, have another solution that might appease to them more then what they have going on. I am having a hard time picturing exactly what is going on there but you catch more bees with honey ya know  in the end though it’s going to be your problem :/ my husband just had to redo a driveway for someone because the way the neighbor made their house pad ended up screwing up their driveway with how the run off goes. They fought it but in the end lost. You can ask around and make sure that is correct in your area, especially since I’m not fully understanding what is going on.
> The Boers, best thing you can do is just reenforce what you have going on. Find out if you are in a fence in or fence out county. Most are fence in and the few of the fence out mainly applies to cattle rather then “livestock”. Ultimately if the neighbor goat comes over and harms or breeds one of your animals they are at fault if it’s fence in, but the damage will still be done and sadly with livestock there is no pay out for sentimental value like a dog just the damage of the animal. So maybe run hot fence on your side of the fence or a few feet in. Whatever you need to do to stop the accidents.
> Wild life again just talk to them calmly. Let them know there is a major predator issue and your just looking out for them. Don’t go at them as if they eat your animals they will eat mine. Be neighborly  if they don’t listen then your going to have to take more prevention measures to keep yours safe.
> I know it’s a pain when someone comes in and screws everything up, try to be nice to start with, if that doesn’t work go to nagging and rude lol that’s usually how it ends with my neighbors but I try at first


I always try to assume the positive. But this is just so... dumb. 

I talked to the neighbor below us, and he's going to talk to the new guy tomorrow morning and explain about the culvert. I would, but I have to go to work. 

We just spent thousands getting the property set back to rights after the big snowstorm we had right after Christmas. Not excited about shelling out thousands more to keep his goats away from my girls, but it is what it is...

_sigh_

He was surprised that we had neighbors. He asked us why we had 3 mailboxes - lol!


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Jessica84 said:


> Oh California neighbors, I hear ya sister!
> I would just try the friendly rout first. Let them know about the drain issue. Come at the very nicely and explain it to them, have another solution that might appease to them more then what they have going on. I am having a hard time picturing exactly what is going on there but you catch more bees with honey ya know  in the end though it’s going to be your problem :/ my husband just had to redo a driveway for someone because the way the neighbor made their house pad ended up screwing up their driveway with how the run off goes. They fought it but in the end lost. You can ask around and make sure that is correct in your area, especially since I’m not fully understanding what is going on.
> The Boers, best thing you can do is just reenforce what you have going on. Find out if you are in a fence in or fence out county. Most are fence in and the few of the fence out mainly applies to cattle rather then “livestock”. Ultimately if the neighbor goat comes over and harms or breeds one of your animals they are at fault if it’s fence in, but the damage will still be done and sadly with livestock there is no pay out for sentimental value like a dog just the damage of the animal. So maybe run hot fence on your side of the fence or a few feet in. Whatever you need to do to stop the accidents.
> Wild life again just talk to them calmly. Let them know there is a major predator issue and your just looking out for them. Don’t go at them as if they eat your animals they will eat mine. Be neighborly  if they don’t listen then your going to have to take more prevention measures to keep yours safe.
> I know it’s a pain when someone comes in and screws everything up, try to be nice to start with, if that doesn’t work go to nagging and rude lol that’s usually how it ends with my neighbors but I try at first


And we are a "fence in" county. I researched all of that before getting goats. 

Thanks for reminding me to keep a level head. It was just so shocking to see it all when I got home today. He clearly has no idea what he's doing. I will try to be helpful.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

Your town may be able to help with the drainage issues. We had mulch dumped in a place our town didn't like (it was a severe drought year) and they gave us a warning to get it moved within a few days or else. The dog on your property is just foolish if they like their dog...but, yeah, gentle reminders of what is allowed and safe. Tell them you are worried about the safety of your livestock, death and accidental breedings.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

littleheathens said:


> Your town may be able to help with the drainage issues. We had mulch dumped in a place our town didn't like (it was a severe drought year) and they gave us a warning to get it moved within a few days or else. The dog on your property is just foolish if they like their dog...but, yeah, gentle reminders of what is allowed and safe. Tell them you are worried about the safety of your livestock, death and accidental breedings.


Y'all are absolutely right. I just needed to take it all in and process just what a drastic change this is going to be for our little neighborhood of three houses. I'm going to be as positive and optimistic as I can. 

It'll be fun to have goats on the hill above us, and they'll help with fire defense by eating all the brush. 

As long as they stay fenced and don't bring the mountain lion prowling around...

I'm headed out to get pics and go to work. I'll show everyone what I mean.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I live in Oklahoma. One side of my property is lined with city people on 2 to 5 acre lots. They have no fences, but dogs. They keep their lawns mowed, with a riding mower. And thats hard work out here in the country. 🤦‍♀️ I installed Field Fence around my property. My inside fence is cattle panels. I bought 2 Large LGDs. The LGDs love my goats, and chickens. They have killed 2 coyotes and 3 little dogs. They werent supposed to get on my property. ( ooops)
As a suggestion, I would line the driveway with railroad ties. That will at least divert and slow the flow to keep your gravel. You can also use river run, to help hold the gravel in place.
I agree with @Jessica84 , be nice , at first. After that either contact the sheriff, or SSS. My 2 LGDs stopped alot of Neighbors, being city folks, and trained to keep on their side of the fence! And their animals also!


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## friesian49 (Jul 2, 2018)

I have some idiots that moved in about 2 years ago now and shortly after decided to shoot their guns on a section that about 3 different properties meet at. It backs up to woods, nobody owns all of it, he doesn't own enough that I'd be confident about shooting blindly into. I used to walk the girls that way - I own some, but not all of it and got approval from the one other person - and I know I've seen others in the woods. And it's not small guns, there for awhile he was shooting some kind of high powered rifle that about gave us all heart attacks. It's insane and so stupid. 

So I thought about moving. I want to own horses again and only have about 2.32 acres, about an acre fenced, but on a hill. More than goats need, but don't want to put a horse in the mix with them and it can get very wet, lots of springs. But with the crazy housing market, still waiting. This time around, I'm looking for at least 10 acres and will be paying close attention to neighbors. I've seen a lot more nice properties where the people put the house smack dab in the middle of it - can't even see neighbors, oh just imagine that!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

All have very good advice.

Be sure you know your boundary lines and they didn’t build over that line onto your property. 
If they built right into the line, you may now share a fence and maintenance with it.
When putting up a fence it is wise to go in from the line to be safe. 
So look at the property map and boundaries.
If they are in your side, they must remove it by law.

If their dog got through the fence so will a goat.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Not great pics because I have a crappy phone but...

Pic 1 - Here's their fence impeding on my driveway. This section of my driveway (up to the "Y") is an easement through part of their property, so technically, they're good, but you can see how it's narrowing my driveway (you can see the tread marks). You can also see how the crazy weather we've had has already washed away muck of my gravel. I have a delivery scheduled for the 2nd week of May. Don't know how it will work, since I'm not sure there will be sufficient room for the dump truck or the tractor to maneuver. Good thing our tractor is small....










Pic 2 - In this pic, you can see where they removed some of our sandbags.. The culvert is right on the other side of their new
fence.










Pic 3 - Here, you can see how securely they joined these two sections of fencing. The "seam" is about 5 feet from the t-posts on either side of it.










Pic 4 - This really bad pic shows them using CalTrans's (the state road folks) fence post. Their fence is attached with 3 twists of wire.










Pics 5 & 6 - The arrows show the direction and orientation of the drainage culvert. You can see how the fence can catch debris and block the flow of water. We clear that culverts before every rain. We can't do that now because the fence blocks our access. If this new owner maintains the culvert, then that's probably ok. You can also see how the fence is at the bottom of the berm. The area between the fence and the hill will eventually fill up with leaves, etc. and shorten the overall height of the fence.



















Pic 7 - And this pic shows how the posts do not support the top part of the fence.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Looks like the New Owners will have ALOT of constant repair work. I hope you have them on speed dial!😁


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Aye aye aye.  That’s just…. I don’t know what it is can’t even think of a good word for it.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

KY Goat Girl said:


> Aye aye aye.  That’s just…. I don’t know what it is can’t even think of a good word for it.


Right?!?!?! I may end up volunteering to help him build the fence so that it will at least hold the goats at bay.

I hope my neighbor (the guy who lives below us) can talk some sense into the new guy today.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

I hope so too. He better strengthen that fence before he gets goats. Do you k ow when he planned to get goats?


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

KY Goat Girl said:


> I hope so too. He better strengthen that fence before he gets goats. Do you k ow when he planned to get goats?


No idea. They aren't actually living there yet. That will give us some time to communicate with them. If they didn't know we have predators, they certainly don't know about the selenium deficiency or about the wildfire situation. 

On the plus side, they're fixing up the house really nice!


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

That is a plus. Lol


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## Lilgoatgal (Dec 17, 2021)

That's a lot to deal with all at once, oh boy! 
If it were me... I'd pick just the biggest problem to address and do it diplomatically as possible. You don't know them yet and neighborliness can go a long way toward getting all the problems resolved eventually if they don't feel overwhelmed from the get go. I'm sure they have big dreams for their property and would be hurt or feel defensive to have them quashed all at once. So, say the culvert is your big hitter, and it does affect you very directly, then a visit to introduce yourself and, "by the way, can we talk about the culvert" kind of situation. Offer your ideas and ask for theirs. See how that goes. Maybe leave it with, "oh, and hey, we've had goats out here for years. It can be really challenging with the mountain lions. Let us know if we can help or answer any questions" just to keep that door open.

I suspect the issues with the meat goats will take care of themselves when neighbor has to figure out solutions to the problems, you can see coming from a mile away, as they arise. Poor planning on their part and maybe a sad outcome, but still their circus and monkeys. Plan to keep your girls locked up the first few days for sure!


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Lilgoatgal said:


> That's a lot to deal with all at once, oh boy!
> If it were me... I'd pick just the biggest problem to address and do it diplomatically as possible. You don't know them yet and neighborliness can go a long way toward getting all the problems resolved eventually if they don't feel overwhelmed from the get go. I'm sure they have big dreams for their property and would be hurt or feel defensive to have them quashed all at once. So, say the culvert is your big hitter, and it does affect you very directly, then a visit to introduce yourself and, "by the way, can we talk about the culvert" kind of situation. Offer your ideas and ask for theirs. See how that goes. Maybe leave it with, "oh, and hey, we've had goats out here for years. It can be really challenging with the mountain lions. Let us know if we can help or answer any questions" just to keep that door open.
> 
> I suspect the issues with the meat goats will take care of themselves when neighbor has to figure out solutions to the problems, you can see coming from a mile away, as they arise. Poor planning on their part and maybe a sad outcome, but still their circus and monkeys. Plan to keep your girls locked up the first few days for sure!


Brilliant response! I'll do my best. 

I'll update as things progress. I want them to be happy, but I wanna be happy, too!


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Don't most zoning fence regulations state that you cannnot put a fence on a property line? In Ohio (I know laws are different) but there has to be a 3 or 6 foot setback from the property line
in order to place an agricultural fence. (that would be 3 feet of his property- so if you put up a fence- too- there would be {theoretically} 6 feet between the 2 fences.) (that doesn't happen much, but
it is there in case of property line questions.).


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I can so relate to this. The problems are not the same but the irritation is.
We have owned our property since 1979. Back then we had an old lady next door and a vacant lot on the other side.
Then they developed the lot and two houses went in. That guy has not been too bad. He maintains the fence. He has to because his dogs constantly try to get under it and he knows we will sue if they hurt our goats.
But on the other side; the old lady died and an old man bought it. He mostly kept to himself but he died and his son let a series of druggies, homeless and very loud residents stay there. We were constantly having to call the police.
They set a fire that burned through the fence and destroyed my son's garden. Chunks of fence disappeared. 
Someone else finally bought it and cleared them all out. The past year they have been rebuilding and it has not been bad.
Now there is a for sale sign so we are terrified of what may get. We are having to do some major fence mending now that we have new goats.
Not trying to out rant your rant. Just empathizing. We are in Central California.
Good luck in dealing with it. Hopefully they will be reasonable.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Just talked to the guy. His nephew told him he had to move the fence. Setback laws say he has to be 30' from the easement (our driveway). He said ok, and we just saw he is continuing to build the fence where he can't. He said he's getting all his goats delivered tomorrow. They will be IN my goat pasture before I know it.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Goats Rock said:


> Don't most zoning fence regulations state that you cannnot put a fence on a property line? In Ohio (I know laws are different) but there has to be a 3 or 6 foot setback from the property line
> in order to place an agricultural fence. (that would be 3 feet of his property- so if you put up a fence- too- there would be {theoretically} 6 feet between the 2 fences.) (that doesn't happen much, but
> it is there in case of property line questions.).


Yep. 30' from the edge of the driveway. Showed the guy the documentation. He resumed building anyway.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

I am VERY concerned. I will call the county, but they won't be out here until after the damage is done. 

I don't get emotional very often about stuff like this, but I feel helpless and I kinda wanna cry.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

That’s too bad. I would feel the same way as you if I was in your shoes.


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## Chanceosunshine (Nov 29, 2021)

Aunt Angus said:


> I am VERY concerned. I will call the county, but they won't be out here until after the damage is done.
> 
> I don't get emotional very often about stuff like this, but I feel helpless and I kinda wanna cry.


This would be heart wrenching for me too.

Calling the county isn't the best foot to start off on but I don't think you'll have any choice if he's already ignoring the laws. I don't think being a good neighbor seems high on his priority list. You have to protect your animals and I don't see how you have any choice.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I feel so bad for you. Maybe he is just trying to get anything up before the goats get there and will move it or install a new one inside it and then take that one down. I hope you can get it worked out with him. Feuding with neighbors is so stressful and draining.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Wow I hope he likes building fence! That is going to collect all the debris and screw that fence up…….even worse. So how far does the asphalt go under those leaves? If enough room try digging a ditch along it so the flow will go down along the side and not your driveway. Keep those sand bags there. The good thing is this should be the last big storm we get this year. So just hope that he does something by next winter. Boy is he going to learn fencing in the flat Central Valley is not the same as the mountains. 
Your goats, you said you have hot fence up. Maybe stick a few strands more up. I think offering to help would also be a good idea. Also maybe some hot fence on his fence but your side of it ???? Gosh I’m sorry. We went threw something similar here. We had people from Oakland move in next to us. They wanted all the farm animals and started with some Holstein bull calf’s, which would be certain death to my heifers if they got out. Even though it’s fence in and they would have to fix the fence to contain them we just went ahead and reenforced the fence our selves. It sucked and we could have used that money for a million other things but it was worth it to sleep better at night


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Jessica84 said:


> Wow I hope he likes building fence! That is going to collect all the debris and screw that fence up…….even worse. So how far does the asphalt go under those leaves? If enough room try digging a ditch along it so the flow will go down along the side and not your driveway. Keep those sand bags there. The good thing is this should be the last big storm we get this year. So just hope that he does something by next winter. Boy is he going to learn fencing in the flat Central Valley is not the same as the mountains.
> Your goats, you said you have hot fence up. Maybe stick a few strands more up. I think offering to help would also be a good idea. Also maybe some hot fence on his fence but your side of it ???? Gosh I’m sorry. We went threw something similar here. We had people from Oakland move in next to us. They wanted all the farm animals and started with some Holstein bull calf’s, which would be certain death to my heifers if they got out. Even though it’s fence in and they would have to fix the fence to contain them we just went ahead and reenforced the fence our selves. It sucked and we could have used that money for a million other things but it was worth it to sleep better at night


Oh gosh! 

We decided we will keep the girls in their loafing pen until we can add more secure fencing. That means instead of over an acre of forage, they'll be stuck in about 1000 sq ft with hay. But hopefully, that will be temporary until we figure out what to do.

We were looking at the fence again tonight, and there are places where the fence is lower than the top of the hill. Their goats will be able to STEP onto our property. They won't even have to jump. 

And their Boers arrive TOMORROW. 

And we can always move....


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Also - I was misreading the setback laws. Those distances are for structures, not fences. It appears there are no setbacks for fences.
😭


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh gosh. What's that saying?








I know that feeling of helplessness. The sheriff would act like we were bothering them. So many illegal things were going on yet they would say there was nothing they could do. Huh?
I still have PTSD when I hear booming bass.
Keeping your girls safe is paramount. Hopefully with time and some electric wires it will smooth out. It is just so much better to have good neighbors.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Oh man, it’s just sad that your goats have to stay off their nice area to forage because of a neighbor who doesn’t listen and doesn’t know how to fence. 

So his goats are getting there today but the people don’t live there yet? Or am I misunderstanding? I know a lot of people have goats out on pastures where they don’t live, but I’m just thinking if he’s not there, he’s not going to see it all going wrong or be available to come fetch his stray goats every ten minutes.


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Oh and [mention]luvmyherd [/mention] I know what you mean about the sound of the bass. It drove me insane when I lived in the suburbs. I used to wear noise canceling head phones inside my own home. I still cringe when I’m in town and hear bass thumping from a vehicle.


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

If you call the zoning department they will likely be able to help you. In my experience, those folks are very helpful and kind. Do you get much snow? I'm sure there are legal reasons for not allowing this- when drainage and stormwater runoff, snow removal, and livestock safety and roaming dogs are concerned. It will take some time so it's good you have a temp solution for your livestock. Get the town or county helping so you at least know what's allowed and what you have to compensate for.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> Oh man, it’s just sad that your goats have to stay off their nice area to forage because of a neighbor who doesn’t listen and doesn’t know how to fence.
> 
> So his goats are getting there today but the people don’t live there yet? Or am I misunderstanding? I know a lot of people have goats out on pastures where they don’t live, but I’m just thinking if he’s not there, he’s not going to see it all going wrong or be available to come fetch his stray goats every ten minutes.


Well, the fence isn't done, so I don't know if they'll be getting goats today, after all. But they don't live there yet. I ordered cameras, too. So I can document.

Hey - maybe his goats will be perfectly well behaved and not try to escape, even if there is essentially nothing containing them (said no one ever).


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

littleheathens said:


> If you call the zoning department they will likely be able to help you. In my experience, those folks are very helpful and kind. Do you get much snow? I'm sure there are legal reasons for not allowing this- when drainage and stormwater runoff, snow removal, and livestock safety and roaming dogs are concerned. It will take some time so it's good you have a temp solution for your livestock. Get the town or county helping so you at least know what's allowed and what you have to compensate for.


Fortunately, this is a small town, and I know people. I have a real estate friend looking into it, and she is very well connected with county folks. I also work with a few people who can find out info for me. I'm hoping if I am armed with evidence, I can tell the guy exactly what will happen and what he's legally responsible for - if things go wrong, I can educate him a little without involving the county.

But this is a nightmare. We are seriously considering moving.

It's pouring today, so my goats won't be leaving the barn/rain out area anyway.

I'm so..... sad. I know things like this happen all the time, but it's been so great living here. I've never been happier, really. Things are going wrong all at once, too.not just with this new "fence," but with my job and my health. And my sons are both experiencing those inevitable life difficulties. But that's how life goes, I guess.

Thanks for listening, commiserating, and giving me great suggestions. It means a lot.

This, too, shall pass....


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I think ordering the cameras to document will be a good idea. Especially for their dog and your birds!
Maybe he will start off with boer does arriving first and have a chance to figure out his fence needs _alot_ of help before bringing a Billy home…


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

It most certainly will pass. I’m sorry so many other things are going wrong, besides this neighbor issue. Hang in there, I’ll be praying everything gets resolved without too much more stress.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> I think ordering the cameras to document will be a good idea. Especially for their dog and your birds!
> Maybe he will start off with boer does arriving first and have a chance to figure out his fence needs _alot_ of help before bringing a Billy home…


Oh - they have a husky puppy, too. 

I asked about what conrainment he was planning for his bucks. He said he didn't know, so hopefully, you're right: does first, bucks later.

I don't think he knows ANYTHING about the husbandry of goats. I'm not super experienced, but I researched. 

I just got an email from a coworker whose spouse is the president of the county farm bureau and is also related to a county supervisor. She also gave me the number of a local lawyer who specializes in ag law. I'm feeling much more hopeful. 

I don't think this guy is intending to be a jacka** (no insult to donkeys intended), but he also doesn't understand the small town way we do things. If he infringes on the wrong community member, he will likely feel pressure from all sides. I might just me the wrong community member to infringe upon.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

[QUOTE="Aunt Angus, post: 2616023, member: 52804"
I'm so..... sad. I know things like this happen all the time, but it's been so great living here. I've never been happier, really. 

Thanks for listening, commiserating, and giving me great suggestions. It means a lot.

This, too, shall pass....
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry you are dealing with so much at once- I didn’t see your last post before replying about the camera.
Yes this will pass- you will get thru it. Definitely don’t make such a huge decision on moving too quickly. Especially where you’ve been so happy with your small town… acreage is hard to get anymore!
Deep breaths, hugs, and coffee. _Lots of coffee_
he eventually has to see the faults in his fence… some people have to learn the hard way.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Aunt Angus said:


> Oh - they have a husky puppy, too.
> 
> I asked about what conrainment he was planning for his bucks. He said he didn't know, so hopefully, you're right: does first, bucks later.
> 
> ...


 I’m glad you have some community help 🍀🍀
Hopefully you don’t need that ag attorney but it’s a nice resource to have- especially if he’s not keeping a husky contained and well trained… some people 😑
Keep your chin up and take it day by day. Definitely let us know when you see he has goats home and have a chance to assess if just does to start with…


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I would get ahold of Caltrains and tell them about it. I am sure they don’t allow what the new neighbors did with their property.

It looks impossible to maintain the road. They cannot block it so road maintenance can be done with tractors. You have to be able to use your easement to enter your home.
I don’t see how it is possible being that narrow. Let alone allowing you to maintain it. 

If they changed a natural water way, that is also a no, no. 
Get ahold of your county office with property laws.

Find out about the easement laws, they might not be able to block any part of it depending on the property documents, read them closely.

Worse case, you may have to go to small claims court.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

The small claims court thing is what we were told. We had to sue the landowner for "harboring a nuisance". Then if we won the sheriff could step in and site them.
Really a huge hassle and not cheap. There are so many things that we assumed were laws that are not. Or ordinances that require a complaint and then an investigation before anything can be done. It can get long and drawn out.
My father had a land dispute where a new neighbor put a chain across his driveway. Due to his personality; he sold his land rather than fight a battle he could easily have won.
Turned out to be a complete mistake as when new owners had the land resurveyed the nasty woman didn't even own what she thought she did.
I so hope your issues can be resolved without such a drastic choice.
We are definitely selling as the city moves closer and closer to us. But luckily we have time to make choices.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

We are all here for you to Rant. Please dont let the What ifs, Or possibles temove you from your home. As all of us have gone through some 💩 of City know it all wanna be country folk. Let the County workers help you. They maintain the roads. Their equipment will remove any fence in a road easement. Then site the landowners for repairs. The new owner wont like missing goats, or being finacially responsible for damage escapees can cost. 
Just breathe. Stay into today. Enjoy your girls,let them do as you always do. Pray and have faith. Youve done all you can. The information has been passed on. Now, just breathe. It will all fall into place, just give it a chance. Be watchful, be kind. This is your home. Ok?


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

No new developments. No goats yet. We are digging into the deeds to find out more info about the easement. It's not looking good since this is a private easement. We may have to go the civil court route.

If he'd just build the dang fence at the top of the dang berm...


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Maybe with him getting goats, they will teach him that lesson. I hope so.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

🤗


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Ever notice how laws and rules only apply to those that follow them? Good luck on your situation. Hopefully, the guy figures out what to do and quits
being the jerk that he appears to be!


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I’m still hopeful he at least start with just Does until he has time to figure out a set up for a buck. That way they can teach him a lesson about his fence without any issues with your goats! 🍀


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Geeze, did they even stretch the fence It looks like it's just rolled out and halfway tacked onto some short tpost. No kidding I'd be worried about them getting out. This really stinks, I hope things get fixed before anything affects you or your animals.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Jubillee said:


> Geeze, did they even stretch the fence It looks like it's just rolled out and halfway tacked onto some short tpost. No kidding I'd be worried about them getting out. This really stinks, I hope things get fixed before anything affects you or your animals.


They did not stretch that fence. They didn't even try. 

Today's developments:

Still no goats, but their "fence" is almost all the way down the length of our driveway and to our carport now. It rained heavily yesterday, and - guess what? Debris washed down the culvert, got caught on the "fence," and caused a back up. There is a steady stream of water coming down our driveway. Luckily, it's not bad. Our driveway and pasture aren't flooded, but they sure are marshy. When they drove their minivan down our one-lane dirt road to work on the fence this afternoon, it got stuck in the mud they created. My husband was going to get the farm truck to help pull them out, but while he was getting the keys and the chain, they used our grate (the attachment we use to spread driveway gravel) to get their van out of the mud. When hubby got up to where they were stuck, he found the grate half-buried in the middle of our driveway and no neighbors. They just took off, leaving a HUGE mess. Hubby was NOT happy. He also said that when he first got home from work this afternoon, both their poodle and their husky were down by the pasture again. This was all while I was still at work. Apparently, they haven't made contact with the electric fence yet. Thinking I may bait them like I did the foxes when we first hooked it up. A lil peanut butter might do the trick...

While I was at work, I was able to have the county clerk email me a clean copy of the easement deed (it's hand written from 1902, and our copy was really dark). It was actually updated in 1960. We didn't have that version in our deed for some reason. The deed states that the driveway easement is required to have a setback of 20 feet from the center line. That would mean they must move the fence an additional 14-15 feet back from where it is now - i.e. on top of the hill at the very least. Problem is that it's a civil matter where the easement is concerned. So we'll have to sue.

But even if we got them to comply with the deed, it still wouldn't make that "fence" good enough to contain goats. So I also talked to the local farm bureau (the president is a co-worker's wife). They said that I should contact them the minute the neighbors get their goats so that the bureau can come do an inspection. They will report to the county if the "fence" doesn't meet county regulations for lawful livestock requirements. That IS a county matter, and the neighbors will be liable to fines. The 1st fine is $100, 2nd is $200, 3rd and any subsequent are $500. And the bureau said they will have the county assess a fine every day until the "fence" is up to code. So, in other words, they will incur $2800 in fines in the first week and $3500 each additional week they are out of compliance. They will also incur additional fines because of the fact that they are zoned commercial and on the state highway. The issue for the county is that the goats could wander onto the highway and would be a serious danger to motorists. It's good to know people!

But, this is all just talk until I actually make the complaint. Even when I do, who knows if the farm bureau and/or the county follows through? I am not feeling confident. I have a sneaking suspicion that we will end up in civil court. Ouch.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Golly. What a mess. At least he’s gonna have to move the fence. And what amazing neighbors to use your driveway and your grate thing to “unstuck” themselves, and then just leave it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

What a shame. Hopefully things work out.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I think you have reasons to be positive at this point… he’s already shown he’s not a nice neighbor using your grate and then leaving it in the mud. So I’d call as soon as you see a couple of goats. At least the county will have a chance to back up their end of things without you having to spend $$ in court. At least there’s hope… and you can always say I tried to let you know it wouldn’t work where you put it up 😅


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Youre in a tough spot. We had an issue early on here where the neighbor cut our joined fence to add a gate for access to his field for harveat time..apparently the cost to do it off the farm to Market road was too much. The problem was they would be driving tractors and semis through our drive and causing ruts and damage not to mention we had small children, dogs, cats and chickens that would get in the way. My husband put a lock on it. We laid cut tree limbs in front of it. He had a Judge friend call us and threaten us. Lol. Boy you don't threaten my husband. We had proof in hand they couldn't do what they did..gave all the correct info ect. They tried for months to bully us to let them use the gate. They now have a beautiful double gate off the farm to market road lol. 
Was a hard fight even though we were in the right. Hold your ground. Maybe they will see its easier to just move the fence then fight with you. 😁


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Hope things work out for you. 🤗


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

I contacted a whole mess of folks about it: the county about the inadequacy of the livestock fence (there are codes that dictate what is a "lawful" fence), CalTrans, a lawyer (who is a friend of a friend), and another coworker who is super connected in the area.

We printed a copy of the easement deed (which is recorded on their deed, too, of course) and highlighted the pertinent language.

We will approach this with a "Let's not involve the county" strategy.

We'll see what transpires....

As always, I appreciate the support and empathy!
❤🐐


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Just ordered trail cams. 

Getting _serious_ now....


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Aunt Angus said:


> Just ordered trail cams.
> 
> Getting _serious_ now....


I do think you want those up, especially if you have any losses due to their roaming dogs. You want to have evidence so they can’t lie and claim it was just wild animals. 
if you do have to go to small claims court at least you’ll have evidence and can ask for all your costs and headaches be accounted for.
Let’s hope it doesn’t get there tho! 🍀🙏🍀


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

I think your current strategy is smart. It’s nice the fence has to be further out than you even thought. I’d point out how much it could cost them in fines on the improper fence too. Honestly, you’re doing them a favor pointing it out now and not when they have fines accumulating. I was trying so hard to give these people the benefit of the doubt until they used your grate and left it stuck in the muck they created. It sounds like they’re not the greatest. Let’s just hope they’re not the worst either.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

In my experience hitting folks in the pocket book generally gets the best results. Being assertive without being aggressive and firm, armed with facts but as nice as they will let you be, can help.
I do realize they might just be mean people but at least you will have tried your best. Then lower the boom on them. Fines go to the county but if you win in court they have to pay you.
We all hope it doesn't come to that but you are doing all the right things if it does.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh I’m with your husband. I don’t like people touching my stuff to start with and to get it stuck I would be on a war path. Get him! He asked for it!


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

We just told the neighbors about the easement deed. They wouldn't even look at it. "It's not a problem. You can still drive there. It's fine." Hubby said he'd hate for them to finish all that fence and then have to move it and pay fines later. They accused us of threatening them. Hubby was very nice and said it's not a threat, we just want to make sure the legal agreements are met so there's no problems for them or us later. "It's our land. We can build wherever we want. As long as you can drive through, there's no problem. I'm an old man. It'd be too much work to clear all the trees for the fence" (etc, etc). He also said if the county gets involved, they might find problems with our property and our animals, too. We aren't violating anything, so I'm not worried. Up the fence goes... Hubby finished, "Welp, let's hope we can resolve this like good neighbors" and walked away.

I swear this is killing my husband. He hasn't been sleeping, and I think he's getting sick now. He wakes up during the night if there is any sound outside, which is basically all the time because of where we live. He's outside right now making sure everything's locked up. We haven't had to do that before because it's so quiet and friendly here. Hubby told my neighbors to do the same.

I just want this resolved asap. I will retain a lawyer on Monday. Maybe just the threat of a lawsuit will shut them down. I am willing to shell out the dough if this stops.

And it's so stupid! Just move the fence up to the top of the hill! It'll be safer for all of the goats involved and for the drivers on the highway. The culvert won't be blocked. And he'd still have plenty of room to run his goats. He's just being lazy and ignorant.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Ugh.  That is just, I don’t know. He’s really being a jerk. And now he’s just asking for worse than a talking to by you and your hubby.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I am so sorry it looks like they are not going to be reasonable. I would be reacting like your husband. I hope you can keep your strength (and sanity).
We had to sue tenants years ago. It was long and drawn out. We won no problem. But, they wrote us bad checks, filed bankruptcy, hid.
We had to attach wages but in the end all their stalling caused them to have to pay $2000 more than if they had just paid us what they owed.
Hopefully a firm letter from an attorney will wake him up to reality.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

So frustrating!
If it’s too hard on him to build the fence, you’d think he’d want to do it right to begin with so he wouldn’t have to redo it.
He can probably hire it done for cheaper than the daily fines will be…


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Like the old saying- "when you are born dumb, you are dumb a long time!" And "you can't fix stupid". So sorry you have all this added grief and
aggravation. I hope your hubby is ok, too. At least you do "know people that know people" offering a ray of hope. Those neighbors aren't making any
friends, for sure!


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## FizzyGoats (Apr 14, 2021)

Well, you tried the neighborly way. He won’t listen, so he’ll pay, either in effort and time of redoing the entire fence or in huge fines or maybe both. I feel bad that your husband can’t even rest because he’s so worried. Thats just not right.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

FizzyGoats said:


> Well, you tried the neighborly way. He won’t listen, so he’ll pay, either in effort and time of redoing the entire fence or in huge fines or maybe both. I feel bad that your husband can’t even rest because he’s so worried. Thats just not right.


No, it isn't right. And hubby doesn't get easily stressed. Just not an emotional guy.

I am taking a great deal of comfort in the fact that the law is on our side. The deed is a legal and binding document. They signed it. We signed it. The county has it on record. If we do end up in court, I feel confident things will be set right.

I'm sure the neighbor is frustrated. He just spent a bunch of money on a house. He put a lot of time and effort into fixing it up. He spent money, time, and effort on the fence. He should've spent considerably more, but still. I see his side of things.

But he should've checked the deed and made sure what he was doing was correct. Common sense, y'all. It's pretty simple.

I'll update once I hear back from all the folks I've contacted.

I really do mean it when I say I appreciate you all. It's been a rough few weeks (I got laid off from my dream job, thankfully got a new job, one of my chickens died, had car trouble, I'm still sick, one of my ducks has bumblefoot again, and I'm planning a high school prom). It helps tremendously to have an outlet, sympathy, and advice from folks who get it.


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## Goatastic43 (Jun 11, 2021)

Oh my! What a mess. You’ve been through a lot lately. Praying it resolves with as little continued stress to you and your husband as possible!


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

No replies yet (it is Sunday, after all), BUT I have found out some not-so-good info. I did an internet search of the new owners, and it appears they frequently initiate civil lawsuits against people: medical malpractice, personal injury, breach of contract... And they all manage different senior care facilities - their 20-something kids, their 20-something parents, their brother, their cousin... Hmmm...

Seems like they're possibly professional scam artists. They are probably already 3 steps ahead of us. They probably already have their lawyer picking apart our deed and county codes...

We have dealt with people like this in the past. Didn't think we'd run into that out here. We may just have to move.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Oh man. That’s just terrible.  I’m so sorry


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

That is unfortunate, I am so sorry. 

If they have a record of scamming, one day they will lose.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Oh dear! Senior living places are getting shut down all over the place due to people like that. We actually had a hand in shutting down the last one my mother-in-law was in. 
We had paid for the entire month of February and she died February 1. She refused to refund any money which is illegal. When she was contacted by the licensing board, she insisted we had misunderstood her and of course she was going to refund our money.
She sent us a check that was postdated by 3 weeks??!!?? We immediately got in touch with the licensing board and they made her bring us a cashier's check for $3000.
They were closed down completely last month so we got our money just in time. We lost $1800 from the first place she was in when the state shut them down.
So those kind are everywhere and it is both scary and sad.
But they are not immune; they can be beaten.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

luvmyherd said:


> Oh dear! Senior living places are getting shut down all over the place due to people like that. We actually had a hand in shutting down the last one my mother-in-law was in.
> We had paid for the entire month of February and she died February 1. She refused to refund any money which is illegal. When she was contacted by the licensing board, she insisted we had misunderstood her and of course she was going to refund our money.
> She sent us a check that was postdated by 3 weeks??!!?? We immediately got in touch with the licensing board and they made her bring us a cashier's check for $3000.
> They were closed down completely last month so we got our money just in time. We lost $1800 from the first place she was in when the state shut them down.
> ...


That is INSANE! Not to mention EVIL to do that - and right after she passed! I'm sorry for your loss and for the way you were treated! I'm glad they got shut down. People like that do not belong as caregivers. It takes a truly heartless individual to prey on our vulnerable seniors.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

I totally agree. That is why I was so concerned when I read about your neighbor. If they are among these evil sorts they are not going to be concerned about goats. Not yours and probably not even their own.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Hopfully by getting the full strength of the law on your side you can beat them. Keep the pressure on..for every little violation...call it in. People like this want to cause pressure..they don't want to endure it..


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Ok....

Goats have arrived, but they are keeping them contained in another part of the property in a corral they made with hog panels, so they are pretty well contained for now. I'm trying to avoid seeing too much of the goats because I love goaties, and these are destined for the dinner table.

As for the fence, I'm currently in talks with a mediator with the county superior court. They plan on contacting the new neighbors and arranging a meeting with all of us about the terms of the easement deed. The goal is to get a written, binding agreement between the neighbors and us about the easement. The deed requires 20 ft, but we are willing to accept less IF they move the fence up to the top of the berm, which is only about 6 feet further from where it is now. We're hoping that a compromise will appease them. I kinda doubt it, though, because they seem pretty darn lazy and stubborn.

The county fire department says that the roadway is now too narrow for them to come down our driveway. However, code enforcement can do nothing about it because it's a private easement, so.... idk. I guess that will only be changed if mediation works. Hope there's no emergency anytime soon.

The Department of Transportation is coming to inspect where the neighbors have attached the fence to the drainage access point next to the highway. They will cite and fine the neighbors for using the state's fence. Normally, landowners can purchase a permit to use state-owned fence, but using state fence for livestock containment is not ever allowable.

Fingers crossed we can avoid a lawsuit...
🤞


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I hope it works out for you.


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

Did they get a buck? Or bucks?


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Sounds like the wheels are turning in the right direction. I hope you can avoid court as well.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Talk to your attorney and see if you except less, say it’s 10 feet from the road, that after X years it’s basically written in stone. I believe in California that after 7 years if someone uses a part of your property, or a easement, you basically loose those right to that section of land or easement unless there is a rental agreement or something like that. Look towards the future and don’t screw yourself. If you decide one day to move and sell you might loose some buyers without that wide easement. 
Does that make sense? I’m tired so maybe it doesn’t, I can ask my mom the legal terms for you if it doesn’t lol


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## Calistar (Jan 16, 2017)

Ugh, this reminds me of my awful neighbors. They put in an enormous motocross track right next door. I won't get into details or the 20 years of bad blood because I get too worked up, but my neighbors have a very similar attitude to your neighbors. My advice is don't play nice, don't let them push you around, and don't make concessions. If you don't stand your ground from the very beginning, they will learn that you can be cowed and it will be harder to fight them later down the line. Don't let things slide in the name of being good neighbors, keeping the peace, or taking the higher road. This doesn't mean that you have to be mean or rude, but you do have to be firm. Otherwise these people will continue to walk all over you. It sounds like you already have a good network and that's great! I really hope they can help get things reined in before the neighbors get too out of hand.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

I agree … make them move the fence to the required parameters


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Go by the original contract. 
That is the law and modifications can create issues. More fighting power with your contract in place. 

Praying all works out for you. 🙏


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

I also recommend going by original lawful document and sticking with the 20’ easement.
The neighbors are going to fight having to take down and rebuild their fence either way. They don’t want the work it requires. 
going by the deed will keep things lawful and help with future selling.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

☝


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Check this out...

They made the corner of the "fence" and turned uphill.











Yep. That t-post there is the corner.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

KY Goat Girl said:


> Did they get a buck? Or bucks?


No idea. I can't see them well from here, and I haven't talked to them. I can really only see the goats from the highway, and it's a very busy stretch here because we are halfway between the 2 towns. It's really more like a freeway. I can't slow down to get a good look. 

Which us why this situation is doubly bad. Cars go by their property at 60, 65 mph pretty much constantly.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> I also recommend going by original lawful document and sticking with the 20’ easement.
> The neighbors are going to fight having to take down and rebuild their fence either way. They don’t want the work it requires.
> going by the deed will keep things lawful and help with future selling.


Good point about selling! Hadn't even considered that angle.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

You are all giving fantastic advice! I feel much more confident now. Our household is much more relaxed because of the deed and the reassurance I'm getting from everyone.

And sorry I didn't respond sooner. I haven't been getting all the notifications. I just changed my settings, so it should be fixed.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Glad to hear you and your husband are feeling a little less anxious… please do let us know as things develop. We are all drawn into your soap opera now 😅
I can’t believe they think that fence is suitable for anything 🤣


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## KY Goat Girl (12 mo ago)

That fence is just downright hilarious to me.  I’ve never seen one so well built before!


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

What in tarnation is that atrocity they are putting up?? Oh man.


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

To be perfectly honest; we might have done something like that when we first got goats.🤪 Luckily, we already had pretty good fencing. But we did have numerous escapes back then.
At least we learned from our mistakes. And never violated anyone's property rights.
Hope you get through this without too much stress.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

luvmyherd said:


> To be perfectly honest; we might have done something like that when we first got goats.🤪 Luckily, we already had pretty good fencing. But we did have numerous escapes back then.
> At least we learned from our mistakes. And never violated anyone's property rights.
> Hope you get through this without too much stress.


My first fence was pretty bad, too, but we're not on the highway, you know? And I at least braced the corners - lol!


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Ive never even built my own fence 🤣
But I have spent plenty of springs stapling up wire and letting it down in the fall… my dad and older brothers did the post hole digging and corner braces. Their one fault with a fence is perhaps making the gates too tight so it’s hard for me to close them! 😅


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Oh goodness. It's a scary thought the goats behind that fence on a busy highway!! 😳


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> Ive never even built my own fence 🤣
> But I have spent plenty of springs stapling up wire and letting it down in the fall… my dad and older brothers did the post hole digging and corner braces. Their one fault with a fence is perhaps making the gates too tight so it’s hard for me to close them! 😅


Good for you! I built my first woven wire fence all by my lonesome while hubby was at work. It was not good, but I had the corners braced correctly (albeit sloppily). It's still standing! Haha!

I need to get me a manly man. Or a sugar daddy. Someone who will either do all the work for me or pay for someone to do it!


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

happybleats said:


> Oh goodness. It's a scary thought the goats behind that fence on a busy highway!! 😳


Right??!?!?

Recipe for literal DISASTER.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree ☝


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Guess what? Their goats escaped onto the highway today. Thank GOD no one was injured. But still no consequences. 

We want to pursue mediation, but we can't if the neighbors keep avoiding us. 

GGGAAAAHHHHH!!!!


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Who found the goats out on the hwy?
They are very lucky not to have lost any! Hopefully they take their fencing into consideration now… 
Did you happen to see if only does or if they also have a buck or two?


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

Oh man! I hope that makes them rethink the fencing. Glad no one was hurt.


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> Who found the goats out on the hwy?
> They are very lucky not to have lost any! Hopefully they take their fencing into consideration now…
> Did you happen to see if only does or if they also have a buck or two?


Apparently, someone was at the house because they chased them down the side of the highway. The sheriff was called. Our other neighbor told us. I don't even know if they hot them all back. There are lots of woods on the other side of the highway....

I have only seen does, thank goodness.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Let us know what they start doing with the fence… and if they do start rebuilding it, hopefully they’ll put it in the right spot as they are having to do the work again anyway!


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## littleheathens (Apr 27, 2019)

When I had a little house in town we had a drug house behind us, sharing a property line. Those folks were horrific neighbors. I called the police so many times. Eventually I got a conversation with someone about how to actually get it to stop. i spoke with a detective that was aware of this house and worked with it. I was told anytime there's a person involved, call 911. Also, the dispatcher often asks (here) if you want a call back after it's resolved. I was told to always say "yes." it ensures they act on it (if even it doesn't seem like a big deal) and keeps you connected/aware. The detective was very helpful making me understand how I could help to get them to stop. It worked. The last straw was quite a dramatic story but they stopped all the asinine things. I think it was mentioned here, but after so many calls to the police, the perpetrators will start getting expensive citations (in our area, I'd guess that's common practice).

My advice is don't hesitate to call police. They don't want goats on the highway or becoming feral either! If you suspect there may still be goats out, I'd call non-emergency police and tell them your concerns. Tell them their fence is not built to contain goats. Tell them once goats jump fences, they often do it repeatedly.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh wow, what an ordeal, glad all is ok. 🤗


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

With enough problems they may just give it up - so many people jump in thinking they will make lots of money. Keep calling the sheriff- since they responded this is a good sign. Things will probably have to get worse before they get better… they seem like they will look for a quick fix … hang in there!


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## luvmyherd (Apr 9, 2011)

Of course we can all hope they wise up after this. And I do. But a long life of experience tells me it is not likely.
I really hated calling the sheriff all the time as they have real crimes to solve. But it is necessary and keeps a record if you end up in court.
The place next to us is for sale and we worry about what we will get. Hopefully not someone who buys it as a rental. That is almost always a nightmare.


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## 1marthalee (8 mo ago)

Aunt Angus said:


> Hi!
> 
> We live in a fairly rural area in Northern California. There are 3 houses on our unpaved country road, which winds down into a little valley from the highway. The house behind and above us is on the highway, but their 10 acres are adjacent to our property.
> 
> ...


Hi there. You might contact the Army Corps of Engineers to see if the planned alterations to the flow of water is allowed. They work to protect water flow and wetlands. Try your county extension agent for help too. Good luck! Im having my own crazy neighbor problems, so I feel you!.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

How are things going? Any new developments (like a decent fence)? 😅


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> How are things going? Any new developments (like a decent fence)? 😅


No, dangit. Nothing new. We haven't even SEEN them. But I hear their goats occasionally. We still want to try mediation, but gotta contact them first. I'm trying to get the hubby to do it because I hate being the recipient of mansplaining. But if hubs doesn't do something soon, looks like I will. 

Boo.

However.... My good friend (who is also my Realtor) informed me that her neighbor is getting ready to sell their farm. It's a fully fenced 7 acre farm with a barn, a pond, an orchard, a big ol' greenhouse, and two houses! TWO. My kids could live in the smaller one. It would be a dream come true. And the world's best neighbors who know how to build fences.


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

Wow- sounds amazing! Maybe this all works into Gods plan for you ❤
And having a friend with a friend so maybe can do it off market… idk what the market is like for you over there, but ID’s is rediculius right now 😑


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## Aunt Angus (Apr 26, 2021)

Boer Mama said:


> Wow- sounds amazing! Maybe this all works into Gods plan for you ❤
> And having a friend with a friend so maybe can do it off market… idk what the market is like for you over there, but ID’s is rediculius right now 😑


Oh, it's NUTS here, too. Our house value has risen by 25% in the last year. I have a feeling the market's gonna crash again. 

I hope God has that in His plans for me. That would be.... amazing!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh that sounds like a beautiful thing.

Awesome. 😁👍


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## Hounddog23 (Jan 13, 2021)

Oh you poor thing ive been reading this thread a while. Its so sad that people are like that.. i hope you come out on top in the end without too much heartache. Shame on those people.. if hes "too old" to move his fence then he dont need livestock anyways.. 🙄 i can only imagine the lack of care these goats will receive also.


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## Dee Hadorn (Sep 12, 2021)

Aunt Angus said:


> Not great pics because I have a crappy phone but...
> 
> Pic 1 - Here's their fence impeding on my driveway. This section of my driveway (up to the "Y") is an easement through part of their property, so technically, they're good, but you can see how it's narrowing my driveway (you can see the tread marks). You can also see how the crazy weather we've had has already washed away muck of my gravel. I have a delivery scheduled for the 2nd week of May. Don't know how it will work, since I'm not sure there will be sufficient room for the dump truck or the tractor to maneuver. Good thing our tractor is small....
> View attachment 227620
> ...


Too few T posts. BTW, our goats ALL eat zip ties. Smart Boers surely will. Glad you have electric fence to keep their "escaped" Boer bucks out. Let's hope they decide farm life isn't as idyllic as they thought😉 Soon


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## Boer Mama (10 mo ago)

@Aunt Angus how’re things going?
Any updates to the soap opera? 😅


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