# Nigerian Dwarf Kidding Question



## riverstonegoats (Apr 24, 2011)

Hey guys, I'm back on here as I've got a couple of does expecting to kid any day now..... and I have a question about one in particular.

One of my bottle raised pets, a Nigerian Dwarf, was accidentally bred (goats!!!) to a Pygmy buck that I had in with my other girls..... he had short legs, but was really quite big bodied.

My concern is now that it is close to kidding time for her, I'm afraid she will have trouble. She is not very big, and to top it off she is a first timer. Her belly is huge, and I'm expecting just one kid, but I'm hoping she can deliver. I have the vets number in my phone, and I check her ligaments/udder several times a day to see if she's close because I want to be there.

Has anyone had an experience like this? If so, did your doe kid okay?


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi, I had a ND doeling get pg, at 6 mos! Didn't see it till she was making an udder! I was frantic. But, she kidded with twins, perfectly positioned, slick as snot. But, I had a ND that was a second freshioner, that had a HUGE single, that got stuck and had to have a c-section. I've had 2 c-sections since I started raising goats. You have to quickly determine when this delivery is not usual, and if it is too much for you to handle. It will mean life or death to your doe and the kids. Of the 2 surgeries we saved 1 kid, lost 1 kid. 

My vet told me that if your kid is positioned with just the head (front legs back) you can still get it out without pushing it back (I think I got the last one stuck because I tried to push it back to get the legs out) just get the head and tug with a contraction. You may need a "kid puller" if you have big hands, you put it behind the ears and again, tug with a contraction.

I was able to get a "transverse" kid (picture: kid is laying on it's side back toward the vaginal opening) out this spring...go in follow the spine to find the head (tucked neatly under the front leg), kinda pushed back to guide head out...don't let go of the head, it will pull back in! Find the head again, get it out, wait till next contraction, guide kid out. Note: a kid positioned this way will not dialate the cervex, you have to do that manually, takes a minute, but then you will be able to reach said kid. My kid was still alive! Two more delivered within a couple of minutes. Thank you Lord!

Sorry, I get wordy...my main advice is to be there when your doe kids, Bambi would have died with all three kids had I not been there. Also, don't panic, go in, close your eyes, try to visualize what you are feeling, a breech kid has to come out pretty fast or it will suffocate.

Beware of feeding grain to your pg does, don't overfeed them, you don't want huge, strong boned, kids. And, I'll pray for twins! Good luck!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Like Di said, sometimes the little ones kid fine with multiples and sometimes big singles get stuck. Personally I hope for twins cos they are smaller than a single and not as likely to get as tangled as triplets, but then again my only caesarian was twins. 

I had a doe once that was HUGE - I'd honestly never seen a doe that big nor thought it was possible - she had triplets, I'd thought for sure quads, but she had HEAPS and HEAPS of extra fluid, it was weird. 

The same year I had a slim trim doe that I thought wasnt even in kid but she had triplets. Go figure. I dont know what they were up to that year


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## riverstonegoats (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks guys. I hope she'll have twins, then!

Also, I took a photo of her a few days ago... that's her twin sister's head haha

Her ligs are kind of squishy, they are not hard strings they have some give, but they are not "gone" yet. Her udder is not developed much, though. I don't know her due date, as I didn't know she was pregnant until much later. How much longer do you think? Again, she is a FF.

[attachment=0:3ljigco0]2011-11-08 07.32.46.jpg[/attachment:3ljigco0]


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

In my experience, ligs are kinda "iffy". You will think they are gone, then they'll be back! Very frustrating, has to do with the "doe code" I'm sure. I also watch for things like nest building, and them wanting to be alone. Watch the topline of your doe, it will look "raised" near her tail. That is the kid moving into the birth canal. Also her udder will fill and look really shiny. And of course then she will be up/down, up/down, scratching her nest. Those are very good indicators that she's getting ready. I would never leave a doe with those "signs". LOL, however, I nearly starved my husband my first year because I wouldn't leave to go to the store..."but Honey, we have no food"...I was right...as soon as I left the doe started to kid!


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

Oh, have you seen the "mucus plug" yet? Little white gooh, might be hanging on her tail...not a clear indicator...but lets you know things are progressing!

Keep checking the ligs, when they go for real, it's profound.


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## riverstonegoats (Apr 24, 2011)

Well, she gave birth to twins on Friday in the middle of the day. All went well, but she barely has any milk at all! The kids are quite tiny, and I had to take one baby away the next morning because it was clearly dying - took all day to get enough fluids back in and finally got it to drink from a bottle. So now we are bottle feeding this one, and her single kid still with her seems to be getting enough, she just has to nurse constantly. The does udder is SO poor I just don't understand. She is a FF but I feed her grain, she's on pasture and hay, plenty of water... why is she barely producing anything? I can try to milk her and I get maybe a drop (and yes, I do know how to milk them, she's just empty!).

I just dewormed her again, just in case.

Any tips on what I can do? I'm afraid of what's going to happen when these babies get bigger and need more milk.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Congrats.... :thumb: 

Make sure... you milk out some colostrum into a syringe without needle and give to the one you are bottle feeding...to insure they get their colostrum..... It sounds like the other kid already got the colostrum....

Get Oxytocin from the vet... for milk letdown....
Also ...lightly bump her udder and get the kids to suckle from her to help stimulate milk letdown.... FF Does... some don't have much milk.... even feeding them well.... but ...when she freshens for the second time... she should do better...

Feed the momma grain...good Alfalfa and make sure ...she is drinking plenty of water...give molasses water to encourage her to drink.... all helps with building milk ...

Glad you were right on top of it and caught the baby in time.....and put fluids into the baby...was it colostrum?

Keep milking her... even if you are just getting out very little and feed every drop to her kids..... milking her will help stimulate her to drop milk....
With time... she should get in her milk...stimulation ...water ...good feed...Oxytocin... will help her...


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## Di (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm so glad she kidded without trouble. It's a little late for colostrum for the little bottle baby. Let's hope it got enough. Keep a close eye on her/him (very important info that you forgot to tell us, lol). Not sure what to do with a kid that didn't get enough...I always take a little colostrum from each doe just in case I need some, I keep it frozen. Each year I put last years on the dog food and replace with fresh. Leave the kids with mom, she will teach them to be a goat. 

You probably should give the other kid a supplimental bottle if she is really nursing constantly. It certainly won't hurt her, and that has to be tiring. I use whole cows milk (if I don't have another doe to milk), with a little cream and some karo syrup. Others here have their own mixtures, too. Milk replacer is iffy, and some like it some don't. 

Like Toth said, talk to your vet and see what she suggests. Congrats on the babies! Bottle babies are a hoot!


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

Agree with di, supplement both. A kid that is constantly nursing is doing so because it isnt getting enough.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

How are they doing?


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## riverstonegoats (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks everyone. They are doing better - we are still bottle feeding the one, and the other won't take a bottle - go figure! 

I've given the mom some electrolytes but she didn't drink much. She is still barely producing anything.


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