# To abort or wait it out?



## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

Please help! If I need to move this post to a different forum, let me know! My favorite precious Nubian doe was perfectly fine last night. This AM she has horrid diarrhea, dark brown. lots of it. Stool check came back perfect. She is due 1/30/19. She refuses to eat, but is drinking lots of electrolyte water. We have been doing karo syrup, molassess, propylene glycol, and probiotics. Ketone strip came back "small amounts". Vet states if we can do all of this care around the clock for 2.5 - 3 more weeks, we can induce her, if she makes it that long. He really recommends ridding her of the babies, although we know at this point they would not make it in the outside world. I would really hate to rid the babies, but I also would absolutely hate to lose my doe. Advice please??? What would you do?? Anything helpful in the meantime?? thank you


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

If she only has a small amount of ketones I don’t think aborting the kids is going to fix her issue. Something other then parasites is going on. Check her rumen. You want nice loud rumbles often. If the rumen is not working right she will scour. If that is good then most likely a bacterial issue. I like neomycin myself. But look and see what you have for E. coli and salmonella that you can get your hands on. Drinking is good! Keep the fluids going. Make your vet hook up a IV if you have to. It is crazy how fast a goat will become dehydrated while scouting. It’s usually the dehydration that kills. 
Every pregnant goat will test to having some ketone, it’s when it’s high that you really have a issue. Other then the scours and off feed how is she acting? If fairly normal then I would hold off and try something for bacteria, if she really isn’t doing good, then I would abort and see if that will help her any. This is really a tough call but you have the right mind set, your doe needs to survive :hugs:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I agree, if ketosis was the issue, the ketones would test HIGH and her feet would be painful. 

I would treat for bacterial infection as well. You can try calf scour tablets or Scourchek piglet red liquid. 

It really sounds like performing an abortion at this point will make her feel worse, not better but of course if that's your vets diagnosis, you two are the ones looking at the goat! Scouring just really isn't a ketosis/toxemia symptom.


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks guys, that's what I was thinking! I love my doe so much, I know that sounds dumb, but she is my baby! I was thinking maybe bacterial too, but the stool check came back normal? I never knew ketones were positive in pregnant goats anyway, thanks for the info! She is very healthy, almost 3 years old, although this is her first pregnancy, so gorgeous, and clean tested herd.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@Kkc I also live in central North Carolina. Know about the vet hospital at State in Raleigh as well. It sounds as if we may live close by. I live in the little 3 stop light town of Liberty, ever heard of it? Who is your vet, maybe I could recommend one for you. State vet school and animal hospital is top of the line and them being able to see her Monday is great. If anyone could help her, they can.


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## SandyNubians (Feb 18, 2017)

Doesn't sound dumb at all. We all love our goat and go to great lengths to make sure they are happy and healthy. I hope she improves and does well the rest of her pregnancy and you are blessed with some lovely kids!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well if anyone thinks it sounds dumb I’m on that list too  it’s not dumb at all. 
The fecal probably was only done for parasites, you could go ahead and find a vet to test for bacteria but I’m honestly not sure how long that will take and if your vet is dead set on it being PT may not agree to do it. I’m not one to throw random things at a goat but in this case I would chalk it up to bacteria and go for it. Ask the vet though just to be on the safe side if coccidiosis was checked in the fecal.


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

She has an appointment for an ultrasound/etc tomorrow at 1. I'm in seven springs, near Goldsboro NC. Yes I've heard of Liberty! I'm using Livestock Animal Services out of Kinston NC. Dr. Harrison Dudley. He collaborates with the Rocky Mount vet whom specializes in goats I believe. How many scour tabs and what can I pick up at tractor supply today to help if it is bacterial infection?


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

What could I give her if it is bacterial/coccidial? Anything I could get tonight before her appt tomorrow?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

@Kkc I don't know the answers for your questions about scour tablets or coccidial treatments because her being pregnant may mean a change in the products used. Sounds like you have a good vet, the one I would recommend would be too far away for you. Since this post is under "waiting room" you may get more answers to the question about products with your other post in "health and wellness"


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

Kkc said:


> What could I give her if it is bacterial/coccidial? Anything I could get tonight before her appt tomorrow?


I would only give hay and keep her hydrated til the vet checks her out tomorrow. If you give anything it may change results.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Sfgwife said:


> I would only give hay and keep her hydrated til the vet checks her out tomorrow. If you give anything it may change results.


I agree. I didn't know she had a appointment tomorrow. Bring up both to the vet if he/ she agrees they would probably have something better then you can get over the counter


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

If she were mine, I would take her off the propylene glycol. That stuff is really harsh on the gut and can cause her to stop eating.

I wouldn't give any kind of antibiotics until you see the vet. He/she may have to do cultures, which would be messed up by the antibiotics.


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## fivemoremiles (Jan 19, 2010)

What about scour halt? would you guys give that to stop the scours?


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Just checking in to see how the vet appointment went this afternoon if you feel like sharing with us. (console)


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

Hey! Sorry I've been so exhausted from all of the stress and being up nearly all night with her. She still has diarrhea, though not as excessively as before. She still isn't very interested in grain, but that's okay, she is eating orchard/alfalfa and drinking and seems happier. Still not 100% but better. Vet said we will wait since she is doing okay, said she seemed a little "dull" but otherwise not too bad. Her blood sugar was 107 which we were very pleased with considering she hadn't had anything but a little hay in 6hrs prior. Basically a waiting game! Prayers work! I'm so tired but so pleased with her progress and hopeful that she will continue to improve. I'm going to get some kaolin pectin to help with the diarrhea and continue to monitor. Vet said babies were very active, at least 2, probably 3. He seemed to think she mmight deliver earlier than due date? She's due 1/30 so I hope not too early. Thank y'all!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

fivemoremiles said:


> What about scour halt? would you guys give that to stop the scours?


No, that's antibiotics too.

Well, now I would think it would be fine. I only meant before the vet visit. I wish the vet had checked for bacteria.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

No grain while she is scouring.

How much grain was she getting prior to her scouring issue?
It may of caused the scouring, if she was getting too much, unless, it is something else.
Throwing out idea's.

I honestly would like to stop scouring as soon as possible, especially if she is "clear of parasites", I would think it is a rumen issue. 
You can use pig scour halt for 3 days, 2 x a day. 
Double the label dosage. 
But you will have to follow up with probiotics and fortified vit B complex.
Also add just a touch of oat hay or equivalent to help dry her up with her Alfalfa. She if she will eat some oat hay on her own.

If she isn't eating at all, make a alfalfa pellet slurry and feed it to her slowly at the back corner of her mouth, get a huge syringe(no needle) or new turkey baster or even a clean used probiotic syringe thingy. 

Did you get a temp on her?

If temp is normal or a bit sub, give probiotics and fortified vit B complex, 6 ccc's per 100 lbs SQ for 4 days or more. 
No grain until better.

If high temp, you will have to start antibiotics.


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks everyone! She is currently eating orchard/alfalfa mix as out old orchard supplier is out for 2 weeks. She seems better today but still the diarrhea. She is drinking alot on her own which is great. She's not herself still but tons better. I'm doing vit b complex once a day, probiotics, electrolyte water. Stopped propylenr glycol and molasses/karo syruo for now bc she's eating better. we also started kao pectate which hasn't helped yet, but I know we need to give it time. Could I do both kao pec and scour halt or should I stop kao pec and just do the scour halt? Also, the only one I saw at tractor supply was tabs? Thank you!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Scour halt only.
Never heard of the tabs.


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## NigerianNewbie (Jun 6, 2018)

Terramycin Scour Tablets 250mg oxyteracycline Zoetis Animal Health 2 tablets per 100 lbs are the ones he is probably referring to


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Not the same thing.
You may have to order it.


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

Thank you!! I saw this. So because I am so paranoid/OCD, I took a stool sample to another vet this morning whom said they saw coccidia but the meds won't be in till Friday? Ughhhhh. My girl is doing sooooooo much better, eating great drinking, and her stool is now the consistency of a formed dog terd lol. She has been getting kaolin pectate. This vet said I could continue the kaolin pectate with coccidia. What in the world should I do? So freaking much conflicting info. Ugh.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

What is being ordered for coccidia treatment?


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

They didn't say, and girl didn't knew when I asked after he left which really is frustrating because I could possibly get it from somewhere else cheaper/sooner. And the girl said it goes in the water and that to try and withhold her water so shell be more apt to drink it when you give it to her? Umm no I am not going to withhold any water from my PREGNANT doe whom has had DIARRHEA and is at risk for Dehydration already lol sorry.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If they found cocci, treat it.

If she had no parasites or cocci, I would of went with the pig scour halt.

With cocci, you should not wait that long.
It destroys gut lining so they cannot absorb nutrients.
Is there something else readily available?


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## Kkc (Dec 28, 2018)

The vet said it was really nothing to worry about that they carry it in their system and when stressed it multiplies but that she will be fine to wait till Friday? I have read what you have also, but he thinks otherwise. The only thing I can find otc is corid and I have vit b complex but no straight b1 if I give her the corid


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

CoRid is what I always give for cocci. It's all I can find here, now. I don't ever give medicated feed for prevention because of dosing problems. I rely on management for prevention, and treatment if they get it.

I would not give even the B vitamins if you give CoRid.

You have to do what you feel comfortable with. If your vet thinks the numbers are low enough to wait, I'm a little surprised he thinks they are high enough to require an Rx.

Anything you want to ask your vet, please ask. They don't always know what we don't know to ask. So they don't know what to pre-emptively tell us. No vet should ever be so unapproachable as to unaskable. Yes, I know that's not a real word. I hope you understand my real meaning.

I'm so tired, I can't think straight.


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## nicolemackenzie (Dec 27, 2014)

I would not use medication that has to be put in the water ( you can’t guarantee they get the accurate dose) same with feed dewormers.

If Corrid is safe for pregnant does get a weight on her and treat her with daily doses for 5 days.

But... I agree with the vet saying all goats have some sort of parasite load all the time. If it’s low, animal is thriving, etc I wouldn’t treat. If animal is symptomatic I would treat, just that animal. 

So if it’s low... I would maybe consider some rumen care first as others discussed.


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## IHEARTGOATS (Jun 14, 2016)

Kkc said:


> She has an appointment for an ultrasound/etc tomorrow at 1. I'm in seven springs, near Goldsboro NC. Yes I've heard of Liberty! I'm using Livestock Animal Services out of Kinston NC. Dr. Harrison Dudley. He collaborates with the Rocky Mount vet whom specializes in goats I believe. How many scour tabs and what can I pick up at tractor supply today to help if it is bacterial infection?


I'm in NC too. Do you know who the Rocky Mount vet is?


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