# Really torn about our Livestock club....



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I really have mixed feeling about our 4-H Livestock club. My kids joined in 2010. My oldest aged out a couple of years ago, and my son graduated in May and will auction off his last 4-H wether in a couple of weeks.
My daughter is turning 13 in a couple of months, so she still has time. She is also eligible to join FFA this year which she is excited to do.

Our 4-H Livestock club is small, it also consists of Country Ham project kids (pick a ham, cure it and write a speech for state fair). Our club has never been huge, but it seems like the livestock part is just fading and fading. 
6 animals are consigned for the 4-H/FFA sale in a couple of weeks. There are usually 25-30 hams. 
Appreciate the support from the community, some of the businesses are trying to increase prices on animal and ham prices per lb. so the kids get more for their projects.

But I'm so sad to see the lack of participation! I feel that a lot of it has to do with our agent. While they are a nice person, they are not livestock driven and I feel it's really reflected on our club. 
I am a certified parent volunteer. I help where I can but I will admit, I am not a 'leader' and I am not great at putting together lessons, etc. 
So getting an email that our agent wants to meet to plan out the next year, and make it so they are on the sidelines I am really, really discouraged! IMO the agent should always be involved especially in a club like this.
We need to get word out and get more kids involved! When we meet I am going to suggest that a flier be made up of each species and hand them out at the schools! Have information on how the animals are shown, what is involved, etc.! 
We had our first 4-H ag day at a private school this past spring and it was great! I made a flier about goats talking about raising and showing goats with some information - all they have to do is print it and pass it out....

However, the only thing our county offers is the sale! We have NO 4-H SHOW. 4-H and our county fair split ways years ago, and the previous agent created a 4-H Youth Expo that took place a few weeks before county fair. It was great. But they got a promotion and left. About 2 years in with this agent and guess what? we have a youth expo but NOTHING FOR LIVESTOCK KIDS 
There is no drive to show an animal project of any kind in 4-H. There are no standouts to make it exciting to be a part of it with livestock. At least other counties that we show in have something for their kids - extra premiums to their top placing youth, or they bring in the best placing animals from the open youth classes to compete for county champions/awards/premiums. But at least they acknowledge their youth. While our county fair shows are wonderful, there is nothing to make our county kids stand out and feel important. We have 1 other goat family, 2nd year for them and they are like us and like to show breeding stock. But kids do not learn anything about the care of goats in 4-H, there is nothing for the kids and as my friend said, my kids don't need to be in 4-H to show breeding stock, there is nothing offered for them to make them want to do it. It hurts my heart, because the kids were so excited to get into 4-H. 

If you ask my kids what they learned in 4-H about their goats they will tell you nothing! They had to learn on their own or through me. 

I don't know how to make it better. I don't know how to make it educational for the kids so they actually learn about project animals instead of constantly skimming the surface or learning the same random stuff. I think since 2010 we have had '1' meeting that was mostly about goats.

Now... as for the education part. I believe the Ag day event may become an annual event. If so, I am going to propose that all kids MUST pick a species and MUST work in groups to put together information for that species 'booth', they have to learn about the care, and everything that goes into the animal AS A GROUP, and everyone have a speaking part. 
This last year it was not that way, the families already into livestock did booths on the animals they raise. So my kids and our friends kids did goats. I think this needs to be mandatory requirement for participation, especially for the country ham kids who come in and just want to get their 6 required educational hours in without doing much participation. 
Sorry if that all didn't make sense, but would love opinions if it did?

I've been complaining that our county needs to offer more than just a sale for the livestock kids. I keep complaining they need to work something out with the county fair and have something extra for the county kids so they are recognized for their hard work. 
From what I gather, the fair and 4-H had a bad fall out. We need to fix this for the sake of our youth! I just don't know where to start or how to propose a change  
I'd love any feedback on what your local counties do to help bring in funds and work together with county fair. Although I do know many fairs in other states don't have open shows. Here in KY many counties are open so you can show one day at your fair, and go to a neighboring county the next. We don't have week long fair stays, 1 day deal. 

Our fair actually has one of the best premium payouts in the entire area. But again, it's open. There is nothing for local kids. I know our club is small, so there might be 1-3 kids in a species, but at least highlight that they are there.
When we had the youth expo, the 2nd or 3rd year we had several kids show up, it was great. We had showman ship classes, then brought county kids back in to show for county showmanship champion. Then after market champion for open show our county kids were brought back in to compete for county champion, same with breeding. 
The program assistant recently got a promotion and left this summer, and told me that our agent won't ask for donations needed to pay for the youth expo animal shows and premium payouts.... 

Sorry about the book (those who know me know I can write them lol). I'm just at a loss. I want to see more kids get involved and be successful with project animals. I want it to be educational and exciting. 
The sale is always Labor day week (gives kids time coming off of state fair), and the sale is wonderful! We have a pitch in dinner, parents help set it up & decorate and other kids/parents help with tear down. I take photos of every kid with their animal/ham and the buyer and we do thank you cards with those pictures that the kids write in and send to the buyers - mandatory before they get their checks at the end of Oct at our 4-H banquet.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions! Yes it's definitely very sad.
I know what you are talking about on the embedded shows, they run simultaneously. We just had a friend host an ABGA show last month that did that and it worked out great. In fact at the state fair ABGA show last weekend, we were asked for suggestions/etc. and a friend is going to write up the proposal for a 2nd show and to either add a 3rd JABGA show or embed/run the JABGA show simultaneously with 1st or 2nd show.
The only youth shows we have at our state fair are Market and commercial/wether dam shows. We've tried to get youth breeding for years but the person over the state youth program is trying to get rid of registered youth projects and he's doing a good job of it. We have '1' state hosted youth show and they took away our buck classes this year 

For our county fair, nope we have nothing like that. We have market and commercial shown by weight, dairy classes shown I believe as ADGA rules apply, then the boer breeding classes are run per ABGA rules (though most judges don't check for breed standards!). 
Nothing additional other than showmanship that is open for all. Our show is a lot of fun, they do a great job with it. But sure wish 4-H and even FFA were involved. Our agent never attends to support the kids either... Previous agent helped in the show ring and always supported the kids.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

I know you want to move. Maybe it's time for a frank talk with your daughter about changing schools or even being home schooled. K-12 is available everywhere. 
Children need to learn change anyway.


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## bisonviewfarm (Apr 2, 2015)

Wow your show is a good bit different than ours. The ones here are all about the kids. We have open shows but the big ones are always the kids (4-h & ffa). We also have our main club everyone has to join one then smaller groups for different types of projects. Maybe you can gather up some livestock parents and start pestering your agent about adding at-least a showmanship show just for the kids at the fair? Thats the big thing here those kids really want to earn that grand & reserve spot as it shows how hard they've worked and grand gets them in a spot in the round robin show were they get to try there hand at showing other types of animals . We have fair board meetings that people can attend its ran by the board and the 4-h council. And for the expo is your club allowed to go and ask for donations or run a fund raiser? here they can and the business that donate can tell our extension office what the money goes to for fundraisers clubs like to do our local murdochs .25 bbq the kids run it but the store donates all the food and drinks all the money goes to the group most people donate way more than the .25.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

It sounds like things are different then how they are here so I’m really not fully understanding it all. But basically there is no interest in livestock from both adults in charge and children, right? If so the children will be easy to get to come, unless your club has a really bad name. But your flier idea is good! Ours does the same thing. We print out a little flier and then give it to the school to pass out. Our club is mostly livestock but we got so many new people last year and parents wanting to volunteer we have a lot of extras now. But anyways, we do a lot of fund raisers (too many!) and we always have our little banner up and also those same fliers to pass out if anyone is interested. You also have a good idea on the Ag day. I know there are kids that are not interested in livestock, and that’s ok, but this is a community service they are doing. They might as well do it the best they can. My kids have no interest in this foods thing our club does but they still show up and do what needs to be done and make posters of stuff they don’t care about and so on.
Just because the agent (is it the agent for just your club or all livestock in your county? Maybe you only have one club for your county?) doesn’t want to ask for donations probably doesn’t mean that no one can. See if you can get a group of parents (and kids) together to ask for donations. For our fair anyone who donates money for awards, buys a animal, or even gives bump bids to kids (donations basically) are also kinda paying a good price for advertisement. There is a huge banner with everyone’s name on it for everyone that comes to the fair to see. For our club we have a group of people that are the Ag boosters. They put together a little “party”. They sell tickets for a dinner, there is a bar there, and then there is a silent auction. Any business that donates something (like the hair lady gives a free hair cut) they are advertised for, us parents will make cakes, cookies, if someone makes soap they will make some and have that auctioned off, just anything really. But they make enough money that it pays for the 4h and FFA kids animal bedding at the fair and also to kick each kid a little money which does help. They also pay for any banners that need to be made, just all kinds of stuff. But my point being that way your not always going around asking people for a simple handout. 
The fair part I don’t get why they wouldn’t hold more classes. Granted I do NOT know every little thing that goes into it but it’s $5 a animal for our fair to enter. The kids also pay 10% of what they get at the auction bump bids (I disagree with the bump bids). The judges donate their time, they are just breeders that come and do it (although that sometimes causes a issue if one if his animals win) the auctioneer does it for free. But I mean $5 adds up FAST! The awards are nothing special, and usually something that is donated, and first place is usually something like $25. 
Sorry that came out a lot longer then I thought it would but home it helps


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Everyone! it was hard to figure out how to explain the situation especially with how tired I've been the last week. 
As far as the show goes, this is our county fair show bill - our fair runs a really great show!









This was our last 4-H youth expo goat show bill -









Nobody advertised for the show, and they had raised the cost to $10 from $5 so maybe 3 other families from neighboring counties came.
In years before that, the payout was really good, especially for the county kids in all species (helped kids pay for state fair expenses!!!)
They even did belt buckles and other 4-H items to give as grand awards. It was great.
But from what I understand, the 4-H agent would not go out and ask for donations! That is how the agent who started it got it going was through donations.
I'd go out and ask for donations if they would devise a plan to get Livestock parent volunteers on board. The kids IMO should not have to ask for donations for this. The kids have to invite possible buyers for the sale.

So that top show bill is all our county has for goat showing. It ends up being a fairly big show. 
Most counties around here don't have week long fair stays and only random counties have the round robin showmanship that was mentioned.

Our club is just too small right now. With 3 of the most active teenagers now seniors, it's looking even more bleak. 
I really hope the flier idea runs by the agent well so they can make print outs to pass out. Talking only gets so far with kids, but put paper in front of them and they can take the information home. Below is the front & back of the flier that I made for Ag day.



goathiker said:


> I know you want to move. Maybe it's time for a frank talk with your daughter about changing schools or even being home schooled. K-12 is available everywhere.
> Children need to learn change anyway.


Yes we definitely want to move, but finding the right place that isn't crazy expensive is the issue. We'd like to stay in the county where we are at. My daughter loves her school, her friends, and worries me to change schools now that she has started 7th grade. Honestly, the only county we have been considering I've heard their 4-H livestock club is in the same shape maybe worse - although they may have more kids involved, my friend said they took away their 4-H show and sale, and basically offered nothing to 4-H kids - parents had to go and get donations to cover the 4-H classes for their youth at the fair. 
My daughter is taking Agriscience in the 2nd semester and joining FFA. If this truly is a direction she wants to go, then when she gets into 8th grade she can start the enrollment process for an Agriscience school in a neighboring county and start attending in 9th grade. It's a really nice facility that covers all aspects of Agriculture including fish farming I believe - all crops and environmental type farming. They have a veterinary clinic on site as well. It's not too far away, no way I'd ever want her in their public schools though (city), but the Agriscience school is well away from the city. We went there last fall for a show & livestock judging clinic that a local feed store helps host.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

Our family had a dairy farm in Ohio and were clearing land for a ranch in Florida. We had a herdsman for our dairy. My parents hauled us kids (5) to fla. every Jan. So dad could work with his father on the newly emerging ranch. (Swampland they were draining. You could do that in the '60's! ). 
So, from Sept. -Jan. We went to Ohio schools, then had to switch to Fla. schools. (Education differences were amazing, that's another story). 

I guess the point is, up until 8th grade, it was ok. Being the "new" kid each year and giving up friends, etc. I adapted. It seems that the older I got, the worse it was. So, if a family moves, before 8th grade seems the ideal time. (In my opinion).


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## CBPitts (Jan 29, 2020)

Wow. Just wow. That's really sad. Our county fair runs 4 days and overlaps the full 7 day week of 4H fair.

There are 40+ kids in our livestock club showing sheep, cows, pigs, and goats. We also cover static exhibits like fashion review and other areas like archery and shooting sports.

There were 52 goats that went through our counties youth auction. 2/3 of those youth also showed a second market goat and 1/2 of those youth also showed multiple does in the youth breed show.

Goats are have lowest numbers of animals shown in market projects at our county 4H fair. We limit kids to a single auction animal so we can get our auction done is a single (10 hour) day.

However, it wasn't always like this. Our livestock species superintendents are just phenomenal people. These folks volunteer their time and energy to drive interest and money into 4H. We only have a couple open shows at our county fair and youth projects don't get premiums.

I have no qualms about enlisting youth to drive fund raising projects. Nothing is free and nothing sells 4H like having youth call and set up a time to talk to local businesses about how 4H benefits them. What they've learned from it. How it has enriched their lives. What lessons they can put towards their futures. Plus it's completely tax deductible 

I would say do what you can to take charge. Even if it's enlisting others and keeping them motivated. One of my favorite things about our fair is how many kids I see age out and then come back to give to this program that they love. They take on all kinds of projects from a girl that showed livestock and static photography takes our auction pics for buyer thank you's to the beef kid that is now the sheep co-superintendent. They are at the leadership meetings, they volunteer to help with weigh ins, they take on fund raising. Petition some of the older kids to give back too. Push for every bit of help you can get.

If it takes stepping on some toes, remember to wear you work boots and get to stomping! Talk to schools and make flyers for teachers to hand out, do education days about all 4H has to offer, take some darling goat kids or lambs to help get them interested.

Drive project interest by hosting county wide education days. Enlist both exceptional showmen as well as top local breeders and even judges. Skip mailing when you can and call folks or set up a time to see them in person. It's too easy to toss junk mail without a second glance.

I really hope you end up with a great youth program by the time your daughter is on her senior year!


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