# Need help quick or I'm going to lose my buckling



## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

I have a 4 month old buckling born on my 10 acre property to a doe that I bought bred. He is presently very ill with the scours. I have done anything and everything I can think of for him. His sister died overnight with no symptoms about 5 weeks ago. She had a little diarrhea next to her body. Several days to a week later, approximately the beginning of June, I noticed 3 of my youngest goats including this little guy, starting to scour. They were all wormed with Safegard. I treated the water with tetracycline and gave Scourgard as directed. The other 2 cleared up quickly. This guy has had the scours for A MONTH! It had gotten to projectile clear liquid. I took a fecal sample to the vet 2 weeks ago and he checked it. He said he saw nothing to account for that watery diarrhea, a few parasitic cysts but nothing to that level. He suggested re-worming with cydectin and 5 days of Pencillin subQ, which we did. The watery diarrhea became opaque and thick enough to stick to testicles and legs but not thick enough to be called paste. I give 16-24 oz of electrolytes daily with probiotics added, he normally drinks it up, and 20 cc of kaolin-pectin with 15 cc of yogurt once daily, which I have to drench down. I see no improvement. An old cowboy rancher told me to give him flour dough balls. Said they used them for scouring cattle, 3-4 dough balls x 3-4 days to dry them right up. I did make up some marble sized balls and added salt to them he gobbled them right up yesterday and today.....no improvement. The cowboy also said that the electrolytes would CAUSE him to scour and that I should stop that. At this point I am so confused and feel like I have tried EVERYTHING and the little guy has lost a lot of weight. I don't know how long he can hold on. He does still forage in the field and has eaten some dry hay but not a lot. He nibbles at the grain which I know he should not have but he is just withering away. Today he ate no hay and no grain and he is looking pretty weak. Please, if any one has any ideas please let me know. Also how can I get some weight on, should I bother to stress him by washing him off....he is a mess. Oh, the diarrhea is a light yellowish brown color, more brown, not green, grey or yellow, no bubbles and smells but vet had no real answers.


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## lovinglife (Jun 6, 2013)

Did you treat for Cocci?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Has the buckling been vaccinated with a Clostridium (C/D) vaccine? Even if he has, I would ask your vet or goat friends if they have Clostridium (C/D) Anti-Toxin (NOT the vaccine/toxoid, the anti-toxin) and get that in him ASAP.

Your friend is correct that the sugars in electrolytes can cause additional scouring but he does need the hydration badly obviously.

Has he had coccidia treatment? I am unfamiliar with tetracycline so I'm not sure if that is a coccidiastat. Typically people use Sulmet, Corid, Baycox, etc.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Also B-complex is really important to improving his appetite, and I would continue the pro-bios daily and convince him to eat as much browse and hay as possible!

You can cut hay in to short pieces and stick a few in the back of his mouth - he really needs his rumen working!


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

The SpectoGard Scour Check and the Tetracycline should have covered E. coli and cocci. He has not been vaccinated against C/D but apparently the vet thought he would have seen something about that on the fecal sample and did not but he still recommended the penicillin injections x 5 days. How do I give B-complex? Can I mix it with his electrolytes and probios and have him drink it? Should I get alfalfa or peanut hay because they are higher in protein or will that be too much for his gut? Does anyone know about the dough balls? Is there an electrolyte without the sugar? Thank you so much for any help. The vet thought it might be an inflamed gut and the Kaopectate would coat him. When it happens in people you put them on a clear liquid diet and rest the gut. Guess I can't do that with a goat. His urine is fine so far, nice and clear and moving well.


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

Tetracyclene is not a cocci treatment. I would get probiotics into him to replace the ones that the antibiotics killed.

Cocci will not always show up on a fecal if they have had severe scouring. I would treat for cocci asap.

Dexamethasone IM to help calm the inflammation and reduce scar tissue.

Blackberry leaves can help stop scours. I use psyllium for scours. 

IV fluids may help him.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

lottsagoats1 said:


> Tetracyclene is not a cocci treatment. I would get probiotics into him to replace the ones that the antibiotics killed.
> 
> Cocci will not always show up on a fecal if they have had severe scouring. I would treat for cocci asap.
> 
> ...


What do you use for Cocci? How much Dexa would you use give a goat that weighs probably 20 pounds now? I will hunt blackberry leaves and where are you getting psylium and how do you give it?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Sulmet, corid, di-methox, or baycox for the cocci. If it is cocci and has been going this long he may have some intestinal damage and nutrient absorption issues.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

You can use Banamine. 1cc per 100 lbs SQ or IM.

Baycox is the 1 time treatment but you may have to do a follow up dose. I don't use it so don't know dosing or frequency.

I think his rumen is way out of wack and needs something stronger like a rumen bolus. You should be able to get that from your vet. It would be a cow bolus and should only be to get the rumen going again. Not anything additional in it. The other option is giving him cud from another goat that has a healthy rumen.

Anything you introduce should be slow. You could try introducing a very small amount of hay but it is so hard to say.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

SalteyLove said:


> Sulmet, corid, di-methox, or baycox for the cocci. If it is cocci and has been going this long he may have some intestinal damage and nutrient absorption issues.


Is the baycox a one time dose? And how do I fix his intestinal damage and absorption issues?


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> You can use Banamine. 1cc per 100 lbs SQ or IM.
> 
> Baycox is the 1 time treatment but you may have to do a follow up dose. I don't use it so don't know dosing or frequency.


Oh my, he is about 20 pounds now. That would be ONE DROP of banamine.....


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

That would be .02 cc of Banamine. I use a 1cc syringe for those small doses.

TGS keeps quitting on me so you will have to go back to my previous post for what else I said.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> You can use Banamine. 1cc per 100 lbs SQ or IM.
> 
> Baycox is the 1 time treatment but you may have to do a follow up dose. I don't use it so don't know dosing or frequency.
> 
> ...


I have seen cattle bolus at Tractor supply or Ace Hardware, is that not the same thing?


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

ksalvagno said:


> That would be .02 cc of Banamine. I use a 1cc syringe for those small doses.
> 
> TGS keeps quitting on me so you will have to go back to my previous post for what else I said.


Good thing it's a small dose and small needle because he doesn't have much muscle mass to shoot. Thank you for all your help. I will be at the store tomorrow. I hope we still have time.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

drdolittle said:


> I have seen cattle bolus at Tractor supply or Ace Hardware, is that not the same thing?


If it has anything in it beyond probiotic and yeast, then it is different. There are ones that have medication type stuff in them. The one from the vet is stronger too.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

When my does stomach was all out of Wack I gave her yogurt with active coulter and flat dark beer. She went from deaths back door to alive and well. 
Is the runs still white?? We had white runs to threw our calfs a few years back. Gave them a good dose of neomycin and cleared them right up. No clue what it was but it worked. You can get neomycin from tractor supply.


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

I would treat for Cocci asap, though right now it isn't presenting as cocci typically does I would still treat to be safe. It will kill them if left to run rampant. I used sulmet to no avail with mine, lost two, I didn't get my other one over it til I switched to dimethox. I would go dimethox or baycox if it were me. Keep him hydrated, I would keep giving him the electrolytes. I gave my girl red cell and stock pepto to soothe tummy and boost iron.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

A bolus would help..even if you have to steal a cud from another goat..a yucky job but worth it if ithelpd your little man. Probioitcs, Milk Kiefer, Yogurt..all are good to give...Dark flat beer....

Keeping him hydrated is very important even if you need to give IV fluids..

Check for anemia as well..http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.U74cN41dV2A

Make little balls out of hay and stuff it toward the back of his mouth, see if he will eat it...if not try a moosh of alfalfa pellets and a turkey baster...

Baycox is 1 cc per 10# booster in 10 days...works great but unless you have it on hand..you dont have time to order it for him...Dimethox is the next best choice...1 cc per 5# day one and 1 ccper 10# day 2-5....this is undiluted...

safeguard does not work on many worms...choose a broader wormer like valbazen would be wise...1 cc per 10#...or ivomec plus 1 cc per 33# oral or 1 cc per 40# sub Q.


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## kccountryfarm (Apr 2, 2014)

Does he have a fever? Here's what the vet told me to do for a doe that was sick...Sulfamethazine, Resorb, electrolytes (there's a recipe online...ACV, molasses, salt and water) they love it. No grain. If he is too weak you may have to drench him with the resorb and electrolyte water. Probios, B complex shot, wormer like Ivomec. With the antibiotic make sure that you don't give probios right away. Probios inactivates the antibiotic. Continue to monitor his temperature. I hope this helps. I know how helpless you can feel when you have sick goats. It's been a crazy year here on my farm too. It must be in the air. Good luck to you. Keep us informed.


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## joybell74 (Jul 10, 2014)

Electrolytes: get unflavored pedialite from the baby food section of the grocery store. It is not sugared (last I checked), like Gatorade and other electrolyte drinks. 

Vitamin B: injectable available at TractorSupply. (I just got B and Penicillin there for my goat.)

I would not give dough balls, because I have heard that gluten can mess up their digestive system. Tho I could be wrong about that. 

Hope you can save him! So hard when they are sick, and nothing seems to work.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Great advice, prayers sent.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

kccountryfarm said:


> Does he have a fever? Here's what the vet told me to do for a doe that was sick...Sulfamethazine, Resorb, electrolytes (there's a recipe online...ACV, molasses, salt and water) they love it. No grain. If he is too weak you may have to drench him with the resorb and electrolyte water. Probios, B complex shot, wormer like Ivomec. With the antibiotic make sure that you don't give probios right away. Probios inactivates the antibiotic. Continue to monitor his temperature. I hope this helps. I know how helpless you can feel when you have sick goats. It's been a crazy year here on my farm too. It must be in the air. Good luck to you. Keep us informed.


Thank you so much. He is not wanting to drink the Dumor electrolyte. He liked the Manna Goat electrolyte. I will try to mix this one up and pick up resorb and B complex. I am trying to locate rumen bolus as well. My vet, a large animal vet, does not have it. WOW! Thanks again.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

I have spoken with 2 vets and no one has the rumen bolus. Any ideas? How do I retrieve a cud from another goat? I'm willing to try.....


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Wait till you see another goat kind of cough it up and start chewing, Then carefully, so you don't get bitten, reach inside of it's mouth and pull out a wad of cud from the inside of their cheek. Then place inside the cheek of your sick guy.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

loggyacreslivestock said:


> Wait till you see another goat kind of cough it up and start chewing, Then carefully, so you don't get bitten, reach inside of it's mouth and pull out a wad of cud from the inside of their cheek. Then place inside the cheek of your sick guy.


Sounds easy enough, I will give it a try. :thinking: I assume I could do this daily?


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes you can do it daily or until you start seeing him chew cud again - it's really great for getting the GOOD bacteria active in his rumen again! It's is a seriously messy task and might take you a few tries to grab one without them swallowing it.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

Definitely use Baycox. Has saved the lives of several of my goats.
I have been in your position many times, it's not fun and I REALLY, REALLY hope he gets better.:hug:


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

margaret said:


> Definitely use Baycox. Has saved the lives of several of my goats.
> I have been in your position many times, it's not fun and I REALLY, REALLY hope he gets better.:hug:


Thank you for the positive thoughts. Where do you get the Baycox? I could not find it or Banamine or Dexamethasone for injection or DiMethox. I did find Corid today and figured I would start that.


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## Daisy-Mae (Feb 24, 2014)

Have you tried pepto. What's his temp


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Daisy-Mae said:


> Have you tried pepto. What's his temp
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum


Temp FEELS normal have not actually taken one. I am using the big bottle of Agricultural Kaolin pectin. I may need to give it more frequently. I am giving 20 cc daily but I have seen posts of about 7 cc, 5 times per day.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

CD antitoxin would be very helpful to rid the body of toxins while his rumen is off..
Fortified B complex
Probioitics

How did the cud rustling go?

Offer green leaves,if you have pine...he may love it enough to try it...

getting his temp is a good idea...101.5-103.5 is normal range...just pick up a cheap digital,,,

here is a home made electolyte he might like...

Homemade Electrolytes

A half gallon of hot water
2-6 Tablespoons of Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses
1-2 Tablespoons of Either Sea Salt, Epsom Salt, Baking Soda or Table Salt.
1 cup of Apple Cider Vinegar


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## TDG-Farms (Jul 12, 2013)

banamine is prescribed. if you cant find Dexamethasone for injection or DiMethox, might have to buy them at an online feed store like jeffers or valley vet.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Bad news :blue: He could fight no more. I felt he kind of gave up yesterday, refusing electrolytes, though I drenched. Went and got alfalfa hay last night and offered it with pellets as well, no interest, I put some in his mouth and he worked it out, spitting it. He was very emaciated and the diarrhea NEVER let up despite Kaolin Pectin, probios, etc. I am so :blue: :?: and veryangry: I feel like I should have known more and done more. I now have 4 goats and a burro and I feel like just quitting. I have lost 4 goats since October. All at different times and apparently unrelated. One over night with no symptoms. We had a necropsy and the vet found absolutely nothing wrong.....said he was as healthy as a healthy goat could be.....really? So frustrated...for all my little ones....:angelgoat:


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## joybell74 (Jul 10, 2014)

So sorry! I've had days like that. Lost 3 goats between 3 and 9 months old last summer. Seem to be doing good, then suddenly dead. One being treated now for Listeria. Sometimes things just happen. Keep learning, and doing your best.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm very sorry you've been having such a hard time. I "killed" two my first year due to lack of knowledge and it is very frustrating.

My only recommendations to you are:

1. Read, read, and read some more! I own 8+ goat management and health books and have read them all cover to cover. I also have spent a lot (probably too much) time over the past year reading threads on here of every topic! Based on what I know now, it's a miracle I didn't lose more goats when I started a few years back!

2. Do a coccidia and worm prevention regimen on ALL goat kids until they are 6 months old, regardless of symptoms. I try to minimize my use of chemicals in all aspects of my life but this is one part where I just cave & do it. All the kids get preventative courses of coccidiastats and dewormers beginning at 3 weeks of age. It is just too tough to treat when it gets bad.

I hope you start feeling better soon and renew your efforts despite the set-backs. 4 is a huge loss but you can do better with the rest!


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## billiejw89 (May 7, 2014)

so sorry for your loss.


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## luvmywaggintails (Nov 18, 2013)

So very sorry for your loss. :sigh: It is so hard and frustrating when you try everything you can...but don't give up. I know there are many of us who have lost goats who later look back and say "If only I knew that back then I may have been able to save them". Hang in there.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Thank you for all the kind thoughts. I think it's doubly hard because I'm a medical person and I should do better.....


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## loggyacreslivestock (Mar 5, 2013)

Aww, I am so sorry. I know how you feel. I am an MRI/ xray tech and feel I should be able to save them all too. We just can't. Sometimes there is more wrong with them than we can tell or see and they just aren't meant to stay with us. Don't beat yourself up over it. In a few days the sting of loss will get better and you will be able to look back and see that you did everything you could for him. In his short life , he was loved and cared for, and that is all that really matters. Hugs.


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## kccountryfarm (Apr 2, 2014)

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm a paramedic and even with my training I still feel so helpless when my goats are sick. I have lost 4 goats in the last 2 years, mine by dog attacks and one accident that I know I could have prevented. This year has been crazy for illness though. I don't know if it is in the air or water but I have never had so many issues with illness until this year. I am comforted though to have this forum. I don't know everything about goats and sometimes I forget I can pretty much treat them like I would a human but the fact that they are an animal sometimes throws me off. Hugs to you. Just know that you did everything for him and that you showed him love and care in his short life. I lost a two month old baby in May due to an accident. It was the hardest loss of all the goats I have lost. I felt so much guilt that I should have tried to prevent it. Part of me wonders if she had to leave to me, because I bought another doeling to replace her turned out to be very sick. I was so sad losing Tiny. But my heart is filled with love for Annie now. She's amazing little girl who was so sick and I know now that she needed me. She's now healthy, full of energy and full of love. Keep your head up. Don't allow yourself to give up.


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## drdolittle (Jul 9, 2014)

Thank you too everyone for all the wonderful advice and words of encouragement.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

drdolittle said:


> Thank you for all the kind thoughts. I think it's doubly hard because I'm a medical person and I should do better.....


First sooo very sorry  you worked your butt of for him. 
Goats are a different and odd animal. I was born and raised a cattle rancher. I have yet to loose a cow or calf except to old age or things that no one could be able to save them from. We don't want to talk about how many goats I have lost. I learned a long time ago it's not worth bearing your self up over but yet try and learn from it. So PLEASE don't feel guilty. 
I agree READ. Read as much as you can. When your bored come onto this site and just read things. I can not tell you how much I have learned from this place and the people on here. 5 years late and I'm still not a pro and get stuck and don't know what to do. But there's enough people on here and some good ideas to help out. 
Again so very sorry I send lots of hugs your way 

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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm so sorry you lost him.


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## margaret (Aug 30, 2013)

So sorry you lost him. :hugs: i feel the same way when i lose goats, I just want to quit and give up.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

Im so sorry..


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## NubianFan (Jun 3, 2013)

So sorry you lost him, it just hurts so bad, and I know how you feel questioning yourself but don't, sometimes goats are just hard. You did everything you knew to do. (((HUGS)))


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## dnchck (Mar 24, 2014)

So sorry you lost him..hugs to you!!


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