# DOE WITH SWOLLEN JAW



## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

I posted about a doe I have with a swelling under her jawline...she is pregnant and looks unhealthy. I gave her Ivermectin orally and when i forced it down her mouth...her tongue was a very pale color. I did this on Friday of this past week. How many days should I wait before treating her again? I used the correct dosage that I had previously read on this forum. I may also treat her for cocci. She is pregnant but at this time I am more concerned with her than the babies...maybe that sounds cruel but thats how I feel. I have four other pregnant does...should I go ahead and treat them all as they have been in the same pasture with her. Is the Ivermectin and whatever I can find for Cocci safe for the pregnant does?? I really dont want to lose all the babies but more importantly I dont want to lose all my does. The farm store here doesnt have a very big selection of meds...gonna try another one tomorrow. Just looking for some answers as far as what is the safest to give them while pregnant...especially the one that has the outward signs that something is wrong. No diarrhea has been present...I had a doe last year with an absess and had her tested for CL which did come back negative and have not added anymore to my herd. So I am really not suspecting it is CL...I am leaning more toward worm overload. No vet around this area...so its just whatever info I can get here and "wing & a prayer". Thank you for any info. :sigh:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

For worming you need to do it 3 times 7-10 days apart each time. 

I wouldn't worm or treat the others if they have no signs. Each animal has a different body system and hands things different. It could be that this one doe just is more susceptible. 

Does she have bottle jaw? Possibly there is more to treat her than just wormer but I am not familiar with it.


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

She has had bottle jaw in the past and her poor head was really swollen...more in the evening than in the morning. At that point i was told to treat her for cocci and I did and within a couple days she was much better. I didnt think it looked the same as before...but now I am beginning to doubt myself. She may just be extremely susceptable to cocci. She is 3/4 dwarf and 1/4 alpine so she is a very small doe and it doesn't take much for her to really start looking "poorly". I have her separated now so I can medicate her and make sure she is getting feed...she generally gets bullied away during feeding time. She just looks so pitiful at me when I go out to her pen...breaks my heart. She is eating and drinking water, urinating a poop seems fine. I may try the cocci meds since it worked well with her last time. We have had several rain storms here and very humid days...so im sure all the parasites and etc are having a field day in the pastures. Thank u for ur info.


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I wish I knew more. I have heard that you can give goats with bottle jaw or extreme worm issues Red Cell. It is made for horses and most equine supply places carry it. 

Hope she starts getting better soon.


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## Burns Branch Boers (Apr 11, 2011)

yes, if you suspect worm overload give red cell 1cc per 20lbs, protien to eat (alfalfa is good) and give vitamin B injections, IM (in the muscle). I would give the red cell every day until she begins to improve and the Vit B injections every other day until improvement is seen. 

Your feed store should have Red Cell (sold as a liquid in a purple container) and Vitamin B is sold as a medicine (in a bottle). You will also need sryinges (to give the red cell orally and to inject the vitamin b).

Last, please try to find a veterinarian to do a fecal for you. Any small animal veterinary hospital can do it. This will make a HUGE difference as far as purchasing the correct de-wormers (and be sure the de-wormer medicine is safe for pregnant does)


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

I second the red cell, and extra protein, along with the vitamin B shots.

Ivermectin is safe for pregnant goats and so is the cocci medicines. I would give a pretty strong dose of ivermectin. when using the ivermectin injectable for cattle it is 1cc per 25lbs, if using the horse paste wormer give her 3 or 4 times the amount recommended for a horse. I wouldn't be afraid to do this for a couple days in a row, but for sure one time a week. 

You can also give her safegaurd wormers, This is given at the rate of 3x the label dosage for sheep and for 3 days in a row. 

If the doe goes off feed, or becomes weak, I have had really good luck, with a drench of corn oil, corn syrup, and mollasses, about 8 to 10 ounces for a standard size doe(120lbs), twice a day. 

the other drench I have used, is one raw egg, mixed with some yogurt, additional probiotics added to this, add some water to thin so it is easier to give. 

The key to red blood cell production in the body is protein. 

And you can also treat her for cocci for 5 days in a row.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 28, 2011)

Wanted to add, If she is badly anemic you may wish to give injectable iron, it is most commonly used with pigs, but can be used on other livestock. We had a doe this spring, that wouldn't respond quick enough to Red cell, and the injectable iron, really seemed to help. We gave it to her one time a week until the anemia cleared up, about 4 weeks it took. Plus some red cell, alfalfa, serious worming, and cocci treatment, Vitamin B shots every day for the first week, then one time a week after that, and probiotics (goats preferred powdered probiotics) every day for several days.


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

Can i dose her with the ivermectin...cocci treatment and red cell all at the same time ?? i havr tried to read all labels about pregnant animals and be safe about it. I have already given the ivermectin last friday...would it be safe to give her the cocci and red cell at the same time since i already dosed her with ivermectin. I don't want to lose her babies but more importantly I dont want to lose her. She just looks big in the belly but u can see her ribs...not real prominent but visible. As of today...her jaw is still swollen...no bigger but no smaller. I can tell it is hard for her to eat...she is separated from the rest of the does so that i can medicate her without having to fight the rest of them. She is pretty east to drench...I just straddle her and hold her head and she will eventually open her mouth. What bothered me was the grey/white tongue color. Its dark her but if someone could answer my question about administering it all at once...i will brave the snakes and go do it tonight. Thank you very much. I will also get some vit B shots...already have syringes.
She has been geting alfalfa pellets and BOSS mixed in with her feed.


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

I haven't completely ruled out CL...she has been on my property for about a year and a half...in that time I had one scare with another doe about the CL. I made a small pen and lanced and cleaned it out taking all precautions and actually shot a small injection of formalin and she has not developed any more lumps and neither have any of my herd. The doe that is swollen now is her whole jawline...no real lumps. If the worming doesnt work then I wll try the same thing I did with the previous doe and see if that works. I don't sell my goats for meats...etc...they are just pets...so not that I want to deal with the CL but I will keep them and just treat with any new lumps I see. I spend time looking them over every day...my neighbors probably think Im nuts!!!!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

I would only add the cocci treatment if a fecal showed a high count.
For now stick with the wormer (since you have started that) and add the red cell.
If her immunities are down try to build her up with things like the red cell and maybe some nutradrench but I personally would not add meeds unless you know they are needed.


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

OK...thanks!!! I will treat with the ivermectin again on fri and see how she does and add the Red Cell to help her. I appreciate ur input...its really hard to find vets at a reasonable price around here that know anything about goats. I have learned quite a bit just by trial and error and asking folks on this forum...very helpful. I don't really like to over medicate by goats...just try to keep them healthy and hardy so its less work. I have kind of found that out the hard way by getting too involved. I just walk thru the pasture every evening and check on them and just try to a presence that they are accustomed to so that they will be a little more familiar with me when I do need to give a little more TLC to one of them. Have a good evening!!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

What amount of Ivermmctin did you give her? Is it the horse paste?
What is her weight or aprox weight?


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

Yes it was the horse paste. I can't remember exactly what I gave her. I used a post on here that had given the converted amount for goats. She weigh approx 80 pounds...just a guess??


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

ok good just as long as you triple the weight of the goat and dose that amount on the horse ivermectin paste.  :thumb:


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## KFOWLER (Oct 5, 2010)

Yes...It was triple what I guessed her weight is. She seems to be doing a little better...some of the swelling is going down and she is eating better tonight.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

ok read all the posts and what stuck out to me was that she was more swollen at night then in the morning. THis is because when goats have bottle jaw they are eating and grasing all day which causes the fluid to build up in their face adn jaw. Then they rest at night and the fluid goes away and then returns again after a long day of grassing etc.

so yes I do believe this doe has bottle jaw (I think I todl you this on another thread) CL is just a lump and not a whole head swelling. 

treatment is Ivermectin for barberpoll worms and treat as directed by others.

Red cell or iron injections (or both). 

you will also want to copper bolus her as being copper deficient can cause worm overloads. 

nothing of what has been suggested will harm the kids in anyway-- so you need not worry about that.


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