# Update on our goat with abscess, questions & more photos (graphic)



## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I put the questions in bold since I have rattled on and on and do not expect everyone to read through 

Our doe Lorena developed an abscess four weeks ago. The long story can be seen in this thread link, the short story is that I had never heard of CL, a vet came out and told me to sell her or to go about business as usual (we use the goats for milking). He squeezed out the contents of the abscess and that left us with very little to send in for testing once I came online to research and found out that the pus should have been lab tested for CL.

Today I noticed a little "head" on the abscess again and we went ahead and lanced it before letting it drain out into the environment this time (which is what happened the first time).









We squeezed the contents into a syringe to collect what we could to send in for testing. 









This is what it looks like (I had several ask me, to me, it does not look like the photos of CL that I have been able to find online but I am sure that doesn't matter much!) *Anyone with CL experience does this look like it*?









That was all that we were able to extract. I cannot over night it to WADDL until Monday, of course, so I am hoping that the sample will be OK if kept cool until then? It should arrive to them Tuesday. *Do you think that this is a sufficient sample this time?*

I am so tired of this and frustrated. I wish that the vet had had the sense to send it in the first time. We are having him come out Monday to draw blood and send that in for a CL test as well. In the mean time I need someone to talk me off the ledge. Everything would be possibly contaminated since I did not have any idea about CL before the abscess.

Also. All signs point to CL from what I have been researching & my limited goat knowledge. Abscess, near possibly lymph site, typical during stress and the doe is due to kid in 15 days, tends to re-occur in four weeks and it did have something needing to drain today but to top it off she has had an un-explained dry cough since October or November on and off - assuming abscess in the lungs? COULD she have an un-explained cough for any other reason?

If it comes back positive we would opt to put her down. I use the goats for milk and I cannot have this. *But what about the kids?* She is due very soon and she has an open festering abscess RIGHT in the way of their entry into the world! *Would you even bother to try to keep the kids?* I mean, how long before I can un-quarantine the kids, her sister (our only other goat at the moment), her sisters kids and feel that I can safely use her sister for milk, bring other goats in etc? This is all giving me a headache. If this test comes back CL positive I would be moving the goats to the other side of the property but what are the odds that Annabelle isn't infected as well, then I contaminate the other half of my property and go goat-less for five years? :hair:

Thank-you guys for all of your input this far, my husband and I appreciate it. I am trying to research as much as I can.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

:hug: The best you can do now is hold the sample til Mon., send it off, and hope for the best. I have no experience with CL besides what i've read so I can't really offer any advice there. But you never know...it could just have been from a splinter or such. As for her kids...i'd pull them when she kids and bottle raise...go from there. Crossing my fingers for ya! Good luck!


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## ogfabby (Jan 3, 2013)

It does NOT look like a CL abcess to me


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

+1 on not CL.


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## crocee (Jul 25, 2008)

It looks more like a staph infection to me.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I agree. I dont think it looms like CL either. 
Is this doe running a temp at all? It almost looks like a friends goat years ago. I lanced it and squeezed the heck out of it. I dug around and found a nice size splinter in it. We washed it twice a day wit bedadine. It healed perfect


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## rmgoatfarm (Jan 1, 2013)

We had a goat with a very similar abscess which we found during vaccinating as we did not notice it before. We lanced it and scrubbed with betadine. The doe has been fine since. She kidded out and her twins are doing great. I would have the sample tested to be sure though. Good luck!


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

Did you flush the abscess with iodine? You should do that for sure and keep doing it until the infection is all out. It should be cleaned out and closed within a few days. That is plenty of material to sample. I had the vet test an abscess for me once and he only had a tiny amount inside a needle. There are LOTS of things that could cause an abscess that are not CL so try not to stress too much about it until you have results. Ask your vet what needs to be done with the sample until you can ship it. Unexplained cough can be lots of things too. Allergies, dust, etc. Best of luck, I hope it all works out for you.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Wow, do I feel better. It really does not "look" like CL to me either but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. 

We did swab out a little bit after the vet came last month, he emptied her abscess and didn't leave us much sample wise but I send what I could get and it came back negative. They did not feel that the sample was sufficient enough and suggested another test, I am much more confident in sending this sample out.

We drained the abscess, syringed hydrogen peroxide into it, drained it again, syringed iodine solution in it and cleaned it externally. I will repeat this again this evening before bed and tomorrow. 

Fingers crossed for a negative!


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Is the abscess smaller this time?


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

looks like press board next to her in teh picture. Is that what their housing is made out of? My goats rub their butts from time to time on the barn and that would be right in the way for a splinter to be. Looks like she just got an infection around a splinter from rubbing her bum


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## kelebek (Oct 5, 2007)

does the prudulent matter have a smell at all to it?

in placement it does not look like CL to me. It looks to be an abcess. With that said, I would definitely quarantine, send the prudulent matter in for analysis so you know what it is for sure, along with what would be the best course of action.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

crocee said:


> It looks more like a staph infection to me.


Agreed 
Most likely not cl


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

STEP AWAY FROM THE LEDGE lol ...CL puss has a cottage cheese look to it..some times a bit of liquid and blood mixed in...this doen't not look cottage cheese at all..I tend to agree she may have a splinter festering..Once the puss is tested you will know for sure...I would do as suggested..clean it out all the way..really get up and under the lump to get everything out. Be sure to have the ground covered in plastic..burn everything you collect and wear gloves just in case we are wrong and you have CL..you may find a splinter or sticker ..keep it flushed with iodine, use a syringe with no needle and get the iodine in the opening..I would do this a few times a day ...also check her temp to be sure she does not have infection..and treat accordingly..( antibiotic) And breath : )


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank-you all again! We mailed the sample out today.

Yes, the abscess was a lot smaller this time around. And no, there was no funky smell either time that the abscess was drained. Also, no, no temp.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

The bacteriology test came back for Lorena. It says "Very Many Corynebact. Pseudotuberculosis" so am I to assume that that is positive for CL?


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

Yep CL. Seems odd to manifest in the supramammary. I would rather a goat have Cl than CAE or Johnnes. CL is very managable. The others are death.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately yes.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow, sorry to hear that. :hug:  I didn't expect her to come back positive.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

OK So now what? CL doesn't sound very manageable, especially since we had intended to use her for milking.

I just took home to very nice bottle baby bucklings today, they are in a stall that Lorena hasn't been in, how at risk are they to be contaminated via our shoes tracking in one stall and out another?

The abscess is still open (and growing back) again in Lorena and I cannot see how a kid is going to be born without touching that spot. Plus, she is coughing all over everything. We are really tempted to put her down and try to keep Annabelle & her kids but there is next to no chance Annabelle isn't infected?

Her sister, Annabelle, hasn't been separated from Lorena - but she does not have any signs of an abscess. Can she kid like normal with no risk of infecting them if she has CL? I know it cannot be passed via milk, so if she is abscess free and not coughing, can she kid/be near other goats/etc?

I'm back on the ledge over here and I have no idea what to do.

Lorena has access to my entire 10 acre horse pasture so there is no way to know where she dropped the pus at first. I'm assuming we burn the wood in their little stall?! 

This really doesn't sound like a manageable disease to me  sigh.


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## GTAllen (Jul 22, 2012)

I saw on www.goatworld.com some management tips for CL.


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

In my opinion, if I had a CL+ goat...it wouldn't be staying. I would have it put down or butchered. Way too risky to keep it. Just my two cents.


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

Some people have separate herds. But you'd need a lot of land for it to work like that.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I tend to agree with KW. I am not interested in milking infected animals nor am I interested in introducing my 14 horses to the potential of Pigeon Fever even more so, since the goats and horses pasture together. 

We are pretty set on "putting her down" tomorrow. But what about the kids? How heartbreaking. They are one week from their due date.......


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

What would you guys do in regards to Annabelle, the other goat? I have a blood test in the mail but we have not seen any abscess or cough. She has not been separated from Lorena, seems highly unlikely that she isn't infected as well. But she is also due to kid in one/two weeks?

I WISH that I could do separate herds. But there is no room. I have the new bucklings separated, of course, but there isn't much more separation options until this ground is un-frozen.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Is there a problem with letting them kid and removing kids immediately then putting the doe/does down? 

I know CL can be passed through milk but you can always try to get colostrum from another farm or the store bought powder.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I cannot find colostrum from another farm, we've been searching, I could order powder and hope it arrives on time. 
I know that Lorena has to have internal abscess, she has a cough. Plus how do I get the kids out without them bumping into the open abscess right below their entrance into the world? (That is IF I catch the kidding, this is my first kidding experience) but the alternative is for them to what, suffocate to death tomorrow?


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## NavaBoerFarm (Dec 15, 2012)

They sell the colostrum at almost every farm store around here. Please try harder those kids deserve a chance.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

Can you afford a c-section? This is heartbreaking, but maybe you can salvage something.


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## .:Linz:. (Aug 25, 2011)

Going with a c-section would be a great option. What part of MI are you in? I know a few goat people spread throughout the state via a Facebook group I am part of, perhaps I could contact them and get you some info?


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

Mabby if your putting her down do a c section? Or put tape over the abses? With vet wrap? Some ides. Sooo sad;( what does it do to them?


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Tractor supply usually has the powdered colostrum. I'd try everything I could to keep the kids. My understanding is even if the doe has internal abscesses then the babies won't get it unless the come in contact with abscess or nurse mom. 

I would look at all options to save the babies. Cesarean section might be the best option since you have definite due dates on both does. I'd wait for test results on the second doe too.


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## BlueEyedFainters (Aug 18, 2012)

How do you plan to have her put down?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

I am leaning towards waiting for the blood tests on the other doe & since she isn't showing active signs letting her kid and pulling her babies. 

I seriously thought that I was joking when I told my husband we should c-section the kids out and then put the goat down. Turns out after looking it up, that is very possible! My vet would laugh me off the planet for asking, I'd assume we'd have to find a willing goat expert or do it ourselves. 

I should have time to order colostrum powder (Any suggestions on what is BEST?) 

I would love more than anything to save the kids. I've been fretting about them since we sent the first test in 7 weeks ago....

Lorena was bred with in a day either way of October 22nd. 

As for putting her down we've been recommended just to shoot.


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## KymberLeAnn (Sep 16, 2012)

Just a suggestion, but what If you out teat tape on and wrap the access when she gets closer to kidding?
The tape would prevent kids from getting milk...


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

How totally devastating! With her being SO close to kidding, I would probably opt for c-section and then having her euthanized, while shes still under, as soon as the babies are out


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## BlueEyedFainters (Aug 18, 2012)

It's a horrible situation to be in, and an even more troubling decision to make.. But we had a similar situation here where we opted to put the mom down and save the kids. We did it ourselves as the $600 vet c-section option 3 hours away was not feasible for either us, mom or kids. 
If you, your husband, or anyone with deer hunting experience is willing to help- you can put her down first and act FAST to section out the kids. I do mean fast, seconds count. Ours survived just fine. 
It's one of those situations and options that no one wants to admit making or taking- but it's a hard truth and can work out for the best.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Can't you just induce her and put tape over the abscess?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

This is so heartbreaking. 

BlueEyedFainters- That has been our plan. My husband is fairly certain he can accomplish this. 

Can anyone tell me though, when should we do this? She was in heat/bred right around October 22nd putting her actual due date 3/21 I guess. I had it written down as earlier to start watching her. How early could we safely do this? Her ligs are almost gone (Or at least to my inexperienced guess as I cannot feel them), she is about half way bagged up. 

I would be interested in inducing her, assuming a vet would need to do this, but I am not sure that my vet will.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

Lutalyce is whats used for inducing in most cases. Can you see if a local breeder has any if your vet wont? dont touch it if you might be pregnant. Its a hormone and can cause you problems too.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

If you've got a breeding date and there is already the greatest risk of contamination due to the previous ruptured abscess, can't you just quarantine her and let her get as close to her due date as possible? That way the babies have the best chance.

I am truly sorry you are in this position and pray for the best possible outcome for you and your herd.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes. She is in the orig. goat pen, her sister has been separated into a "uncontaminated" horse stall even though she has already been living with Lorena for two months so its probably to late... and our bucklings are across the way from both does in an un-contaminated pen & run that we just built. Planning to wait as close to kidding without risking her actually kidding. I cannot wait for active labor as I cannot guarantee my husband will be home to take care of the goat and pull the kids out. 

I'm sorry, I have so many questions. I've been researching for weeks and am still looking for advice for any of these thoughts/questions:

Am I correct in understanding that the CL is somehow NOT contagious unless there is an active pussing abscess or coughing? Is it any old coughing or is it the coughing up of some ruptured internal abscess goo that spreads via a cough? 

How worried would you be regarding our coats or boots and feeding the bucklings?

Am I also correct in assuming that we CANNOT use our goat pen in the forseeable future and it would be best to build new goat houses across the property (somewhere the contaminated goat hasn't been)? 

If we were to burn the wood from her stall and scrub the cement with bleach or clorhexadine can the cement be considered clean? 

I have head that this fun stuff lives in the soil for 5 months, 1 year, 3 years and 5 years, which is it? 

We have decided to put Lorena down. Would you put the second doe down as well or give her a few months to see if an abscess or a cough appears? How long would you wait before you consider her clean and put her in with the herd? OR can she go in with the herd because she has no cough and no abscess so even if she is getting/has/will come down with CL she isn't contagious (or is she, fuzzy on that...?) WOULD you let her have and raise her kids? Have the kids then pull them and bottle them? Would you use her colostrum/milk heat pasteurized for the kids or not at all?


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## kristinatucker (Jan 3, 2012)

I have zero advise but I am SO very sorry you are in this situation to make these awful decision. My heart breaks for you.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank-you. This is so frustrating. And exhausting. I am worried about what to do.. with who... when.. where.. for how long.. I'm reading, asking non-stop stupid questions, I am *this* close to saying the heck with all of the goats, it was a good run... 

Of course I brought home to little bucklings. They are seperate but now I think that my coat could contaminate them, or "what if" she sneezed on the cement that we built their stall on somehow, or what if my dog licks Lorena and then a baby goat. What about Annabelle do we off her too? Is it worth trying to keep Lorenas babies and her babies separate and separate from these bucks and doing half accurate blood tests in 6 months? What are the odds all of my babies don't end up with this? Blah blah blah. I'm tired. And like I said, I am really close to saying I don't like cheese THAT much. Especially since I've kind of lost my appetite for raw milk  

I really do appreciate all of your support and advice, I am pretty sure I'd be bald by now without, but still have many questions like in the above post.


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## Axykatt (Feb 1, 2013)

I wish I knew the answers to your questions, but I really don't know enough about CL to offer any advice about herd contamination. Maybe you should call the ruminant department of your local university's agro program for accurate information. It would be terrible for it to spead through your herd.


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm sorry for all you are going through, I understand the panic, frustration, and disappointment that you are going through. I run a few CL positive goats in my herd. Since I identified the contaminated animals, I have been successful in stopping the spread of the disease. Everyone's operation is a little different, and big decisions are based on individuals. In my case, I couldn't bring myself to put down an otherwise healthy goat, so I opted to manage vice cull. Any way, I may be able to answer some of your questions.

Ground contamination varies by climate. I'm in the dry desert, and after talking with a local ag college, I learned that the ground contamination here is just a few months. In a more humid climate, that number could be years. To keep things safe, I still isolate goats with an active infection, I collect and burn all pus, and I burn the isolation pen. Talk with local ag experts to get a better idea in this.

You are correct, the infection is passed through the pus. Goats will actually lick it off each other. In the case of internal absesses, if they are in the lungs, the goats can cough up the pus, and spread it that way. Typically, if you have an internal case, the goat is generally unthrifty. I typically cull these goats immediately because there really is no good way to control that situation.

On your other goats, the bucks are probably clear. I would watch for absesses, but if the goats haven't been mixed, they really are low risk. I would probably have the sister tested. There are a few places where you can draw the blood yourself and have it tested. Typically, if you test her once a year, and she passes two tests, than you are out if the woods. 

I would ask your vet about the CL vaccine. The one for goats was conditionally approved this last year, and is available either through a vet or over the counter depending on the state. If your an over the counter state then you can order it from Jeffers. The vaccination will not help an infected goat, but it will protect your other goats if they are clean. Be advised that vaccinating a goat will cause a low positive on a blood test since the goat is producing antibodies. Blood yests and culling are great, but the best way to truly protect your goats against this disease is to vaccinate. 

On your girl that you are going to put down, the closer to the due date the better. Somewhere between the 145 and 150 day mark would be ideal. Be prepared to get the kids breathing since they will probably need stimulation to shock them into taking their first breaths. Time is of the essence for your undertaking, and I don't mean to sound gruesome, but prepare yourself ahead of time for an unpleasant experience that will involve a lot of blood. Finally, one piece of advice I learned the hard way, if you are using a gun, do not shoot the goat between the eyes the way they recommend for a horse. Shoot the goat in the back of the head where her skull meets her spine with a low caliber weapon (.22 is ideal to avoid ricochet). This will result in instant death. I am really sorry to sound gruesome here, but these are the unpleasant details that will save you heartache in the long run.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

No worries on the gruesome details. It is heartbreaking and going to be un-pleasant but its the truth. Thank-you for the information and details! 

What is the name of the CL vaccine that works for goats? My vet just keeps telling me that there isn't one, they do not work and that blood testing is a waste of time. I do have a blood test drawn a week ago sent out for Annabelle (the sister).


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

It's not surprising that your vet isn't aware of the CL vaccine for goats. It's new, and most vets don't keep up with goats very well. Before this vaccine came out, some goat people used the sheep vaccine off label and this is probably the vaccine your vet is thinking about. I've heard it was ineffective on goats. I had to argue with my vet for awhile, and finally bring in the Jeffers catalog and SHOW him the vaccine before he would order it for me (it's vet controlled in my state). Anyway it is produced by Texas Vet Labs, and if you go to the Jeffers Livestock web page, you can find out if it is restricted or over the counter for your state. You can't miss it, it's the only CL vaccine with a picture of a goat in the bottle.

I understand what your vet means about the blood tests. A blood test is purely informational, it will tell you whether or not your goat has the antibodies in it's blood to indicate that it has fought off the infection. It does not mean that your goat won't contract the disease in the future, and it takes a few years of testing before you can declare a closed herd CL free. In my case, a false sense of confidence about the test led to more of my herd being infected. My first CL positive goat came from a tested herd. The seller provided me with several years worth of negative tests on the goat when I bought her. When she developed an abscess, CL didn't even occur to me because of the tests. As it turns out, the seller had a neighbor whose goats had CL and they had gotten into her pastures. One weak fence undid years of diligent CL testing. That's why I would rather buy a regularly vaccinated goat over a tested goat any day of the week.

Good luck.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

I just want to say my vet is VERY up on goats and he said not to use the CL Vaccine. For one it willl give a false positive when you test for it. Also, it is not showing to be working on preventing it in goats.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

sweetgoats said:


> I just want to say my vet is VERY up on goats and he said not to use the CL Vaccine. For one it willl give a false positive when you test for it. Also, it is not showing to be working on preventing it in goats.


Even the one designed for goats? Or is that for the sheep vaccine?


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## SCRMG (Oct 24, 2012)

A vaccinated goat will test positive on a CL blood test. However, if the testing center is aware that the goat has been vaccinated, they CAN differentiate.

I would be interested to know why your vet believes the goat approved vaccine is not effective. The vaccine is still under a conditional license, this means that in lab tests have shown it to be effective, but the company has not sprung for a permanent license because they are testing the market for financial viability (will there be a return on their substantial investment if they put this vaccine into full time production). I know the sheep CL vaccine was ineffective on goats, but I haven't heard this about the Texas Vet Lab vaccine.


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## nubeegirl (Nov 9, 2012)

I am learning about goats too but just for anyone who needs to know about horses...never shoot a horse, that has to be put down, between the eyes! That is a solid bone. They should be shot behind the ear.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

nubeegirl said:


> I am learning about goats too but just for anyone who needs to know about horses...never shoot a horse, that has to be put down, between the eyes! That is a solid bone. They should be shot behind the ear.


That's great to know. I've always heard to shoot goats in between the horns , on the poll.


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

So how'd it go? Are the kids out?!!! Or no


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Can you have her re-tested, just to be sure? SO sorry


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## Trickyroo (Sep 26, 2012)

Im so sorry you are going through this stressful situation.
Prayers to give you the strength to get through this ordeal.:hug:


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

sarahmoffatt said:


> So how'd it go? Are the kids out?!!! Or no


The goat with the abscess, blood test came back a very high + and her sister, came back negative. We have them separated now of course and we are very anxiously keeping our fingers crossed until we re-test her sister in 45 days before letting her back out of quarantine. I do not want to let her (the sister, neg. goat) in with the new goats when we get them, until she has had at least these two neg. tests.

The babies are not out yet. I am thinking that Saturday day is the day for Lorena. Annabelle will be kidding "naturally" - both are due in 6 days. We'll see... :s


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## sarahmoffatt (Feb 17, 2013)

keep us updated. Its like a scary movie were in to far and need to know the ending! I am so sorry you have to be in this situation  what are you planing on doing with the land now that its Contaminated?


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank-you guys. I really appreciate the support and the advice. 

Just saw this post, ThreeHavens, the pus has been tested and we did just receive the blood tests back, finally. Like I said, high positive.  The good news is that thus far Annabelle is somehow negative! I pray that she is truly negative...

I am going to give it a good shot at NOT happening again, at least not from land contamination. We only had the two does, Lorena and Annabelle. But before I found out Lorena's abscess was CL I picked up two reg. Alpine bucklings to be future boyfriends for our two girls. They are of course separate, across the isle in the barn where the does have not been. Annabelle has been moved from Lorena into a separate stall. I have "Lorena stall shoes" and "baby buck pen shoes" - hopefully they aren't at risk. When Lorena is gone her babies will be rooming right next to the baby bucklings that we have now. Since I started out with just the two goats we only have 1 goat pen. (Lorena is still in the contaminated pen, other goats have taken over the horses stalls) The wood is going to be burned, the milking stand where the vet drained her abscess will be burned, the outside of her pen will be left alone until we can get a bob cat to scrape the top soil (poop.. actually..) off and replace with a few inches of new sand and then we'll replace the fencing with clean fencing! After that, according to MSU, 2-3 months with no goats on that ground should be good to call it clean. I'm going the extra mile and removing the dirt/adding new sand and then in June we will be re-building the goat pens over there. In the mean time we are going to put up temp. fence for Annabelle, the bucks and both Lorena and Annabelles kids. Ugh. So much work  Its probably over-kill but this will hopefully be the end of it. I have already contacted a farm that sells very nice CL/CAE neg Alpines. Bottle fed babies on pasteurized milk. We will be adding a couple of doelings to the mess soon. My horse stalls are currently FULL of goats! Why not add more...

I will keep you guys posted & hopefully, be posting a picture or two of some fuzzy pygpines.


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## nubeegirl (Nov 9, 2012)

Best of luck to you!


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

sounds like you have a plan and arent giving up :hi5: good for you! I commend you for your diligence on this.


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## thegoatgirl (Nov 27, 2011)

I only have three words for you on this: I'm so SORRY!! It must be horrible! And just a quick tip for shocking the babies to start getting them to breath: I use Cayenne pepper tincture (sp?) to rub in between their legs-it gets 'em up quick! LOL! Eucalyptus oil on their nose also helps.  Best of luck to you!


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

Will heat treating Lorena's colostrum kill the CL and make it safe to feed the babies?

I purchased the Durvet Lamb & Kid Colostrum replacement powder (This, Link) 
...however shortly after buying it I talked to a vet from MSU and she said that the colostrum powders like that are no good and that we have to get the kids actual colostrum. I have tried and tried to track some down near me with no luck. My intention had ben to milk Lorena out before we put her down, heat treat her colostrum BUT I cannot find anywhere online that this is going to kill any CL that she has in her udder. Its of course CAE prevention but will it actually prevent the kids from getting CL?

If not, then I may as well not even waste my time trying because we have nothing else to feed these babies at this point & going though the hassle of fishing them out just to feed them some CL right off the bat, that would be pointless.


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

* I have asked several vets and they have had differing opinions. They all agree Lorena's colostrum heat treated would be best for the kids but they all pretty much suggested using my other does colostrum. Which would be great and all but she is due to kid a couple of days after Lorena so that is not an option.


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

a kid without colostrum can live a healthy life -- you just need to be extra viligent when they are young and seem to be acting off. May need antibiotics sooner etc. I have powder colostrum as well for emergencies


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/babies-need-suggestions-asap-142688/#post1351452


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## Maureen (Jul 6, 2012)

My husband just came up with a good question... How is this baby not exposed to/infected with CL from getting into some of moms blood on her way out? We never thought of that, but there was some that the babies came into contact with while opening their sack and pulling them out, tieing and cutting the cord etc etc before getting them inside...?


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## ThreeHavens (Oct 20, 2011)

Usually they are infected through direct contact with the puss from the abscess, so I think as long as you clean her off and separate her form mum quick, you have a good chance of her staying clean


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## Used2bmimi (Oct 3, 2012)

Ya, from all I understand, CL is not transmitted through the blood. Blood tests for CL measure antibodies not cL itself. It is not passed by the milk itself either, but the milk is dangerous because of all the lymph glands in the area that could be abcessed and erupt into the udder, thus contaminating the milk. I have used the powdered colostrum in other species and it worked just fine.


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