# expensive goat mistake



## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

its been a week, and i no longer feel the pangs of regret as i did immediately after purchasing this doe and kids. but once i got her home, i stared at her hindquarters for a long time and wept internally at how weak they are. She's probably six + years old and delivered twins five weeks ago. A rescue. clearly anemic and needs better body condition. the rescue woman i bought her from had NO clue about goats but was doing the best she could considering her ignorance. I decided to buy the doe because she has a very healthy appetite, active rumen, no diarrhea and has extensive bloodwork done by the previous owner that cleared her for CL, johnes and all that. 

my question: is this doe's hindquarters/legs just weak from years of abuse or genetics?


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

As some one who deals with rescues. I cannot believe she was left in such poor state. You will help her get back to her beautiful self. It looks like her past made her condition weak. Her babies look ok.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Poor goatie! ❤
I bet she will look a ton better after some TLC.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

Tanya said:


> As some one who deals with rescues. I cannot believe she was left in such poor state. You will help her get back to her beautiful self. It looks like her past made her condition weak. Her babies look ok.


I will do my Absolute best! it's just her hindlegs are unbelievably posty??? its like her hips are tucked in. reminds me of soft pre-delivery tendons. im hoping mineralizing her will help. got some more selenium and copper on the way to help


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Bless you for taking her in.

I would get a fecal for worms and cocci for her and her kids in case.
They have been stressed and her kids too. 
If she and her kids are parasite free, good feed, love , minerals will help them. But slowly introduce it. 

Check for lic/mites.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

toth boer goats said:


> Bless you for taking her in.
> 
> I would get a fecal for worms and cocci for her and her kids in case.
> They have been stressed and her kids too.
> ...


i absolutely will, thank you <3
finished cocci treatment on her and the bebs last week and wormed again this week. apparently she's been wormed with cydectin in the past. i dont mind chemical treatments but am going to try the LOH route as well.
The rescuer fed all the goats out of an empty kiddy-pool(where the kids were sleeping too). some sort of crumbles with cracked corn and molasses that smelled Disgusting. she's done extremely well with the feed change and introduction to actual pasture to browse. The first impression I got from her was that she had to have a "rumen of steel" to survive prev owners


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd start with giving selenium supplement. Give it time to work.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Oh poor thing. Definitely order some land of Havilah’s and get a fecal test done. Check her FAMACHA score. Start her on two cloves of garlic daily.

I would start her on Replamin plus gel, this will be for selenium but most other minerals as well. Make sure she has a loose mineral too.

Looks like she could use a bolus too, but let me check the pics one more time.

What’s she being fed?


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Oh poor thing. Definitely order some land of Havilah's and get a fecal test done. Check her FAMACHA score. Start her on two cloves of garlic daily.
> 
> I would start her on Replamin plus gel, this will be for selenium but most other minerals as well. Make sure she has a loose mineral too.
> 
> ...


loose minerals, red cell and a daily dose of relamin for the past week is a check!
all her winter hair appears to be shed, but she def needs a bolus (which i will administer as soon as her week of redcell doses are over, i guess)

her winter coat seems to be shed, but she def needs more copper. OH AND im working on her hooves, which were WILDLY overgrown and might of led to her weak hindquarters??


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Just a suggestion..since she has kidds and her conditioning needs help. Possibly some Dyne added to her feed would help address her loss of muscle. To me she looks like shes had toooo many pregnancies back to back. Give her a year off.with.your love and fantastic care..we wouldnt recognise her. :squish:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Very good advice by all.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

I agree. This lasy needs a rest from everything. Well donr to you for rescuing har and her squeecky toys. She will be more fleshy once she gets everything she needs. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## goatblessings (Jan 6, 2015)

In regard to her posty legs and steep rump - it could be genetics but it also be some nerve damage from kidding. I would KSU give her some top line loose minerals and some vitamin ADE along with the bo-se or replamin.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

Tanya said:


> This lasy needs a rest from everything.


:up: :nod:


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

@That_Girl - you can't post that title without telling us how much you spent on her!

I recently made a $275 purchase and it may turn out to be a mistake, a few more weeks should tell. My mistake was also with an owner who did not have a good grasp on proper dewormer use. I did somewhat consider it a rescue as her FAMACHA was white but really the price was quite good (disease tested, ABGA registered.)

Got any photos of the feet before or after? I'm interested if she regains her rear leg angle!

She does seem a bit hunched up in a couple photos so I bet conformation improves as she feels better and stretches out.

Photos of her teeth for age check?


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh poor mama! Really there is so much unknown about her it’s hard to tell but she definitely needs some condition on her. 
How old are the kids? I would make a creep feeder and get them started. Creep feeders are the absolute best invention ever! The more grain and hay those kids eat the less they will demand of mom. They won’t not nurse her but they won’t depend on her being pretty close to their sole source of food. When I first made a creep feeder for my kids I saw a HUGE difference in my does that seem to always give it all to their kids keeping condition on them. 
Moers mentioned dyne. I absolutely swear by that stuff! It is very high in fat, and other goodies but it’s also a high energy supplement as well. Anything around here that needs some extra weight or they just don’t feel good gets dyne. I just started a twin calf that was hidden for over a week so I didn’t know about him because mom came in with her other calf, so I had no reason to assume she had twins, anyways by the time she did bring him in he was VERY weak and thin and I was holding my breath he would life. A week and a half on dyne and he’s not just filled out but he is running and bucking and you never would guess he was as bad as he was. Seriously I could write a book on how great that stuff is. 
For the weakness though she may be older then they think, maybe she had a injury, malnutrition causing her to be weak (dyne I’m telling you!) or genetics. The reason why we want to pick goats with good conformation is because over time that conformation can lead to issues like this when they get older. But it sounds like she is in good hands. It may have been a bad buy but only time will tell and your giving her one heck of a chance


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

Moers kiko boars said:


> Just a suggestion..since she has kidds and her conditioning needs help. Possibly some Dyne added to her feed would help address her loss of muscle. To me she looks like shes had toooo many pregnancies back to back. Give her a year off.with.your love and fantastic care..we wouldnt recognise her. :squish:


oh yes, she's def getting some time off. honestly im surprised she's made it this long. and i will look into dyne! i've never heard of it before!



goatblessings said:


> In regard to her posty legs and steep rump - it could be genetics but it also be some nerve damage from kidding. I would KSU give her some top line loose minerals and some vitamin ADE along with the bo-se or replamin.


you bet i will! she's not extremely interested in the loose minerals but she's been getting the replamin daily. I have injectable vitamins a&d but ive never used them, i need to research them more.



SalteyLove said:


> @That_Girl - you can't post that title without telling us how much you spent on her!
> 
> I recently made a $275 purchase and it may turn out to be a mistake, a few more weeks should tell. My mistake was also with an owner who did not have a good grasp on proper dewormer use. I did somewhat consider it a rescue as her FAMACHA was white but really the price was quite good (disease tested, ABGA registered.)
> 
> ...


saltey, i paid $600 for this doe + kids. which was ... generous. the woman selling them thought she could get ALL the money she put into these goats back, and i, myself loathe being talked down from asking price so i just went with it. she'll get a reality check soon enough without my help.

from what i understand, this doe's feet where terrible but have been trimmed by a farrier a few months ago, as well as on the second day at my place. they're looking much better and i honestly hope it helps her physically.

teeth! they've still got a sharp angle, its just hard to see from this picture.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

thank you all for the input, i feel much more confident with real goat-pros advice!


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh I don't think she is over 6 years old based on that teeth photo! It doesn't look like she has lost the last set or two?

https://goats.extension.org/goat-dentition/


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

Can we see the teeth straight on and parallel? Can’t see the fronts.


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

I bought Dyne at Tractor Supply..its a great additive.


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## Sfgwife (Feb 18, 2018)

When looking for the dyne.... check to see how much dog dyne is where you shop. Same good stuff in it. Sometimes it is significantly lower priced and sometimes not. And just know also that when giving it she may not eat as much. It makes them feel full. But it is a great thing to use in instances like this!


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## Damfino (Dec 29, 2013)

She looks a little strange to me. Yes, she's skinny but not so much over the ribs as she is in the hindquarters. Usually by the time the hindquarters are this wasted the rest of the body looks in worse condition. What kind of area was she kept in? It looks like the muscles have atrophied and I wonder if she just hasn't been getting enough exercise. If she was in a small pen or in a place with no pasture she may have simply eaten in one place and was never motivated to move around. I think taking her for a walk every day might do wonders for her body condition and her hooves. Having her on that leafy green pasture will also motivate her to move around as she eats. Rebuilding her pelvic muscles will probably improve her hock angle.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I'd do a fecal. She has the wasting at the spine which in my experience and others that have told me, bankrupt worm can cause. Possibly. I echo all that's been said above. But she appears to have wormy belly. Maybe check/worm for tapeworm as well. In kids, tapeworms and sometimes others lead to them being skinny everywhere but the belly. Her shoulders are super sharp as is her hind end and spine. Posty legs could be genetic. Also she only kidded 5 weeks ago, it takes a couple of months for the body to get back where it needs to be, including posty legs sometimes.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

Damfino said:


> She looks a little strange to me. Yes, she's skinny but not so much over the ribs as she is in the hindquarters. Usually by the time the hindquarters are this wasted the rest of the body looks in worse condition. What kind of area was she kept in? It looks like the muscles have atrophied and I wonder if she just hasn't been getting enough exercise. If she was in a small pen or in a place with no pasture she may have simply eaten in one place and was never motivated to move around. I think taking her for a walk every day might do wonders for her body condition and her hooves. Having her on that leafy green pasture will also motivate her to move around as she eats. Rebuilding her pelvic muscles will probably improve her hock angle.


you make a good point! i suspected with the overgrown hooves, and the way her hindquarters look that she's not had much exercise. i plan on having her out and hoofing around more ASAP, but for now she's having an hour of browsing when im available to watch her.



Jubillee said:


> I'd do a fecal. She has the wasting at the spine which in my experience and others that have told me, bankrupt worm can cause. Possibly. I echo all that's been said above. But she appears to have wormy belly. Maybe check/worm for tapeworm as well. In kids, tapeworms and sometimes others lead to them being skinny everywhere but the belly. Her shoulders are super sharp as is her hind end and spine. Posty legs could be genetic. Also she only kidded 5 weeks ago, it takes a couple of months for the body to get back where it needs to be, including posty legs sometimes.


ahh that makes a lot of sense. plus not getting enough minerals would make recovery from kidding physically very difficult. I started her and the kids on valbazen last week and will run a fecal to the diagnostics lab as soon as i'm done worming.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> Can we see the teeth straight on and parallel? Can't see the fronts.





SalteyLove said:


> Oh I don't think she is over 6 years old based on that teeth photo! It doesn't look like she has lost the last set or two?


Here's two fresh sets of pics! what do you think?


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

I got Dyne from Chewy, before I learned they were a big supporter of HSUS, a sister group to PETA. That turned me right off of them.


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## NigerianDwarfOwner707 (May 17, 2018)

I would say probably 4 years old.


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

lottsagoats1 said:


> I got Dyne from Chewy, before I learned they were a big supporter of HSUS, a sister group to PETA. That turned me right off of them.


I get it from amazon and tractor supply. Amazon has the better deals but tractor supply at least has it in stock if I happen to have missed that I didn't have my usual back up gallon


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

NigerianDwarfOwner707 said:


> I would say probably 4 years old.


i would be shocked if she was! she just looks so rough, it's hard to imagine she's younger than my big, sleek girls.



Jessica84 said:


> I get it from amazon and tractor supply. Amazon has the better deals but tractor supply at least has it in stock if I happen to have missed that I didn't have my usual back up gallon


I'm willing to try this. im down for high-calorie anything that will not hurt her stomach like a big grain bump.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep, looks around 4 years.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

update!! i bought dyne and she's eating just as well as before. her belly has shrunk a little, hopefully because of the worming and her famcha color seems to have improved over the two weeks i've had her. getting her clean and strong asap before she can be introduced into my herd (herd queen is a big 160lb monster). overall she is very resilient and im very very thankful for everyone's input! thank you!


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## MellonFriend (Aug 8, 2017)

I don't know if I'm imagining it, but I think she's looking better already! It's probably just that she knows she's loved now. Keep up the great work!(clap)


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to see.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

Good improvement. Keep up the good work


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

Keep up the good work. She is lucky to an awesome owner like you. A little more time we won't be able to recognize her


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Thankyou for giving her a chance. All "the pretty" ones are sold easily. Thankyou for looking past the hardlife and saw the possibilty! :ty:


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

UPDATE on the doe: she's made slow progress? (last image is when i first brought her home) its hard to tell if she has made any at all... i sold her kids and dried her up to help along. the onther goats are not too mean to her, actually they treat her as more of a non-entity than push her around.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I think she is definitely looking better!


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## lottsagoats1 (Apr 12, 2014)

She looks soooo much better! Slow can be good sometimes. Great job.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

thank you! im not really doing much aside from feeding her. she's definitely muscling up while grazing on our hilly pastures tho she avoids the very steep parts for some reason... she had some edema last month so i weighed her and wormed with cydectin-- 120lbs! hard to believe her boney butt weighs that much. speaking of her rump-- ive tricked myself into believing it looks not as pinched as it was? not that the changes would be Drastic but


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Looking good :clapping:


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## NDinKY (Aug 3, 2019)

She’s looking a lot better, good job!


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## TexasGoatMan (Jul 4, 2015)

From what I see in the photos, she has a bad case of mis-meal colic. It sounds like you are doing everything possible to bring her back to health. Just don't get impatient and over do on your support supplements. I would suggest that you let her have access to good minerals and she will get what she needs her self. On the selenium and other force fed minerals don't over do and cause her digestive tract issues. Easy on the BOSS also or you will have loose poop. So what I am trying to say is she didn't get into this condition over night and it will take time for her to recover. The sooner you can wean the kids off the better for her recovery. You have gotten lots of great advice in the other posts so good luck with her.


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## Tanya (Mar 31, 2020)

She looks better than her first appearance. Be patient and consistant. Not overly obsessive with speed. You will find she will happily get well and make you a happy goat momma.


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## Goataddict (Jun 8, 2020)

She is definitely looking better (dance):clapping:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Looking better.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

TexasGoatMan said:


> From what I see in the photos, she has a bad case of mis-meal colic. It sounds like you are doing everything possible to bring her back to health. Just don't get impatient and over do on your support supplements. I would suggest that you let her have access to good minerals and she will get what she needs her self. On the selenium and other force fed minerals don't over do and cause her digestive tract issues. Easy on the BOSS also or you will have loose poop. So what I am trying to say is she didn't get into this condition over night and it will take time for her to recover. The sooner you can wean the kids off the better for her recovery. You have gotten lots of great advice in the other posts so good luck with her.


i will do more research on this! its frustrating because she's anemic and ive been giving her red cell + vit B complex regularly along with cydectin (2cc per 11lbs) BUT she's twenty days in and STILL occasionally having bottle jaw after she grazes! i dont want to stop the iron supplements yet but i dont want to inundate her with too many minerals...


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

UPDATE ON GERTRUDE!

after worming with cydectin she's not had any bottle jaw issues. she's about 115lbs and still in need of weight. consistently she's had a great appetite! she's actually been playing recently with the herd queen and i was stunned! her winter coat has come in great and is hiding some of her bones but she's still making progress i feel.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Good to hear.


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## 21goaties (Mar 13, 2018)

She is beautiful!


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## Ana (Jan 29, 2020)

(highfive)This is awesome! May God bless you for taking her in and caring for her the way you did!


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## BethJ (May 28, 2019)

I think she looks a lot better! You can actually see her pretty dorsal stripe now that you've worked on her copper deficiency


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Shes coming along nicely. THANKYOU!


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## MadHouse (Oct 3, 2019)

Great job! I am happy for her and you!


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Look at the smile on that goat's face. Lets you know shes in a much better place.


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## That_Girl (Aug 5, 2014)

UPDATE! getrude's topline is doing much better. her butt is still boney but her ribs cant be felt anymore!!! sweet girl!


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## MadCatX (Jan 16, 2018)

Thats so awesome. You can look at her and tell she's in a happy place.


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## lada823 (Apr 2, 2018)

That_Girl said:


> im down for high-calorie anything that will not hurt her stomach like a big grain bump.


My goats like the Farnham Weight Builder. You can get it at tsc or rural king. It's a horse product that's made for adding weight without having to increase grain, and the goats love it.

Sorry, I replied before I noticed that this was an older post 🤦🏻‍♀️. She is looking fabulous! Nice work!


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## Moers kiko boars (Apr 23, 2018)

Lookin GOOD! You are doing A FANTASTIC JOB!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks for updating your post. She looks great!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Looking good.


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