# A lotta dead babies!!!



## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

I have had 10 dead babies so far this year. First babies were tangled in the womb and dead and had to be pulled. Next baby was not in the diving position and died as I pulled it. Next baby was born dead or died soon after I missed that one it was an overnight and early. Doe number 4 had one dead full term baby and a mummified baby! 5 th doe so far Kidded today 6 weeks early. Fully formed babies no hair and DOA! I am at a loss. Any help would be much appreciated


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## MollyLue9 (Oct 14, 2012)

All I can do is pray for you and give you a hug thru my computer screen. So sorry for what's happened!!


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Oh man this is tough, so sorry.

What's your feeding program like? Your loose minerals?
Chlymidia comes to mind, or toxopl ..something. do you have young kitties who do their biz in the hay?
I would strongly suggest taking a kid in for necropsy.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

nancy d said:


> Oh man this is tough, so sorry.
> 
> What's your feeding program like? Your loose minerals?
> Chlymidia comes to mind, or toxopl ..something. do you have young kitties who do their biz in the hay?
> I would strongly suggest taking a kid in for necropsy.


 Yep Nancy said it all.

I am so so sorry for all the loss. I know with a year like this you don't want to kid anymore, but remember it is not your fault. :grouphug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm so very sorry, that is just awful  We had a very very hard time with losing 3 week old premature twins, I can't imagine losing 10 babies like that 
I would most definitely take a baby to have a necropsy done, you need to find out what is causing them to die, especially if you have any more does pregnant. Could be something as simple as a mineral deficiency, or a disease that needs treatment.


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

I feed good grain not too much. Horse quality hay grass and alfalfa. Loose mineral I use onyx from cargill . I have heard clamidia a lot today so we started a round ofoxytetracycline on the entire herd


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

Good start!


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

HoosierShadow said:


> I'm so very sorry, that is just awful  We had a very very hard time with losing 3 week old premature twins, I can't imagine losing 10 babies like that
> I would most definitely take a baby to have a necropsy done, you need to find out what is causing them to die, especially if you have any more does pregnant. Could be something as simple as a mineral deficiency, or a disease that needs treatment.


That's what I plan on doing if I loose anymore didnt know about that until today.


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## sweetgoats (Oct 18, 2007)

Lets hope that is the end of the problem. How many more does do you have to kid?


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

It sounds like chlamydia.
Main symptoms - abortions, premature delivery, mummified babies, weak or stillborn babies, afterbirth retention. EDITED: You can use Biomycin 1 cc per 20 lb given once weekly , SQ,until the doe kids for pregnant does after the first month of pregnancy. Treatment for bucks and kids over 6 months is LA200 or tetracycline 3ml/100# once daily for 2 days. Good news is there is a vaccine which can be given to prevent this in the future. It is sexually transmittable so bucks have to be treated and or vaccinated as well.

Other main causes can be Toxoplasmosis- mother will have pneumonia type symptoms trembles, weight loss and usually not mummified or Vibrio - mother will usually have diarrhea and a difficult time conceiving, vaginal discharge and uterine infection but again no mummified babies.

Found this post on here about LA200 http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/la-200-during-goat-pregnancy-info-interesting-101572/


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

I have 4 more does to kid. Gave all a dose of Bose today too. Having my hay tested too just in case. CSU is right up the road and I will send any more ( let's hope not) up there.


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

mjgh06 said:


> It sounds like chlamydia.
> Main symptoms - abortions, premature delivery, mummified babies, weak or stillborn babies, afterbirth retention. Treatment is LA200 or tetracycline 3ml/100# once daily for 2 days but do not dose pregnant does or kids undr six months. Good news is there is a vaccine which can be given to prevent this in the future. It is sexually transmittable so bucks have to be treated and or vaccinated as well.
> 
> Other main causes can be Toxoplasmosis- mother will have pneumonia type symptoms trembles, weight loss and usually not mummified or Vibrio - mother will usually have diarrhea and a difficult time conceiving, vaginal discharge and uterine infection but again no mummified babies.


My vet told me today I could give la 200 to my pregnant does every 3 days for 9 days.


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## chelsboers (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm sorry you've lost so many babies. Last year I had problems with babies having their heads thrown back and one born upside down and breech. It can be disheartening when you wait so long and lose babies one after another. I agree with the others about having a baby tested. Maybe that can shed some light on what's going on.


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

MollyLue9 said:


> All I can do is pray for you and give you a hug thru my computer screen. So sorry for what's happened!!


Thank you!


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

mjgh06 said:


> It sounds like chlamydia.
> Main symptoms - abortions, premature delivery, mummified babies, weak or stillborn babies, afterbirth retention. EDITED: You can use Biomycin 1 cc per 20 lb given once weekly , SQ,until the doe kids for pregnant does after the first month of pregnancy. Treatment for bucks and kids over 6 months is LA200 or tetracycline 3ml/100# once daily for 2 days. Good news is there is a vaccine which can be given to prevent this in the future. It is sexually transmittable so bucks have to be treated and or vaccinated as well.
> 
> Other main causes can be Toxoplasmosis- mother will have pneumonia type symptoms trembles, weight loss and usually not mummified or Vibrio - mother will usually have diarrhea and a difficult time conceiving, vaginal discharge and uterine infection but again no mummified babies.


So what is the vaccine for it?


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

Here is the article on vaccines available from Auburn University http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0090/UNP-0090.pdf

EDITED: You can get the vaccine from the vet - but it the one labeled for sheep. So far from readings it has helped in goat herds when they are known to be infected with chlamydia. Side effects have been muscle stiffness and abortion if given while pregnant.

Another post on here about Chlamydia http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f193/chlamydia-127105/
Merck Veterinary Manual stating use of sheep vaccine is effective for goats. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/110306.htm
Online store to purchase vaccine http://www.westernranchsupply.com/body.php3?cat_id=1&sub_id=47


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

mjgh06 said:


> Here is the article on vaccines available from Auburn University http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0090/UNP-0090.pdf You get teh vaccine from the vet.


I will text her right now.


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

Is chlamydia transferred only through breeding?


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

So long as theyve had plenty minerals in front of them that's not your problem. We too use the Onyx with only one kidding problem last year.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

OutlawAcres said:


> Is chlamydia transferred only through breeding?


 No, it can also be transferred from rodents in the feed, birds, flys feeding off other infected animals or placentas. 
Infected palcentas in your pasture can spread the disease among your herd and humans can also get it. Be careful to dispose of the bodies and placentas carefully with proper hygene. 
The kids that manage to live from an infected doe are infected and can start the cycle over again in the herd by infecting their mate. Treat these kids before they are bred.

We've found that the every 3 days anti-biotics does not work well with goats. Their motabulism is too fast and they burn the drug off too quickly. Much better to do every day and be sure.


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## Sunny Daze (May 18, 2010)

I had a friend whose kidding season last year started off like that. She thought first it was coincidental...they were born in the night, she figured it was too cold. Then she had more, and again thought it was the cold...but it really wasn't that cold. Sure enough she lost some more...we got to talking and she did LA200 and the feed through tetracyclene. The rest kidded out fine. Hopefully yours turn around as well. Thats no fun


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

nancy d said:


> So long as theyve had plenty minerals in front of them that's not your problem. We too use the Onyx with only one kidding problem last year.


All the research I did today points to chlamydia how do you know where it came from?


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

OutlawAcres said:


> All the research I did today points to chlamydia how do you know where it came from?


From my research through University articles and Veterinary Manuals here are ways of transmission -


Infected animals excrete large amounts of Chlamydiae in the placenta and fetal fluids at the time of parturition and at the time of abortions.
Goats may shed Chlamydia in vaginal fluids from two weeks prior to abortion to two weeks after the abortion.
Smaller amounts can also be shed in urine, milk, and feces several days after the abortion
Animals can pick up the disease by inhaling the particles through feed, water, or dust particles.
If they are 100 days pregnant they are more susceptible to the disease than one at the end of gestation or barren.
Infected mothers can pass the disease onto their young which causes it to stay in the flock or transmit it to others.
It can be transmitted to does through the direct contact of feces from infected pigeons and sparrows.
Chlamydia can be also transmitted to goats by ticks or other bloodsucking insects.
Another thing I read states even with the vaccine or treatment, it could take up to three years for an infected herd to stop abortions. This is a very good article from the International Veterinary Information Service discussing all the scenarios with treatment and vaccination - http://www.ivis.org/advances/disease_tempesta/rodolakis_chlamydiosis/ivis.pdf


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## honeymeadows (Nov 20, 2012)

It could be toxo as well. Does can pick it up from cat feces and be _totally asymptomatic _but pass it to the unborn kids. This happened to us. Send blood from one of your does that aborted for an abortion panel, and meanwhile treat your expecting does as if it may be chlamydia (you can't do anything about the toxo at this point). We gave oxytet every three days.

If it is toxo, although it is never eliminated from the doe completely, it goes dormant and rarely causes future pregnancy loss.

Be careful to glove up if you are going to be touching body fluids (kiddings, blood draws) - almost everything infectious that causes abortion in goats can infect you as well. Some are transmitted in milk as well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with what was said.

I am so sorry for the losses.


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

I'm so sorry, it does sound like chlamydia to me too. Does any one have thoughts on treating before delivery to be sure before you find out the hard way when it's a newer herd?


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## clearwtrbeach (May 10, 2012)

goathiker said:


> No, it can also be transferred from rodents in the feed, birds, flys feeding off other infected animals or placentas.
> Infected palcentas in your pasture can spread the disease among your herd and humans can also get it. Be careful to dispose of the bodies and placentas carefully with proper hygene.
> The kids that manage to live from an infected doe are infected and can start the cycle over again in the herd by infecting their mate. Treat these kids before they are bred.
> 
> We've found that the every 3 days anti-biotics does not work well with goats. Their motabulism is too fast and they burn the drug off too quickly. Much better to do every day and be sure.


See that kind of worries me, we have a horrible mouse, pack rat, wild bird and the neighbors chickens. Last summer my little buckling got deathly ill and I could attributed it to cocci and some nasty from his chickens. They kept flying in my pen and pooping in the kids bedding and hay! I've heard it said the chickens can get the goats sick and I'm not sure but his was the only pen that had chickens and he was the only one who got sick.
SO, my question is should I treat the does due between the end of march -first 2 wk of April? If so can I use the crumbled feed?


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## honeymeadows (Nov 20, 2012)

Chicken coccidia and goat coccidia are different, so they wouldn't pick that up from the droppings. Perhaps salmonella (if the hens carry it which they might have picked up from the rodent droppings), I'm not sure what else. We have a huge rat problem too - it is a never ending battle.

Regarding treating does due in March/April - you obviously aren't going to give daily antibiotics for a few months. And the every 3 day regime is what the university recommended to us. Remember you aren't treating an acute infection like pnuemonia in your goats here (when I would also give it every day). You might want to draw blood and send it now, the start the antiobiotics, and continue or stop it according to your bloodwork results. Regardless, I think you need the advice and guidance of an experienced goat vet. 

For our does that got toxo from a cat, it was only the ones due first that were affected. The ones that kidded later did OK.


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## HalfAChanceFarm (Dec 1, 2012)

You are not the only one with losses! I lost 5 kids this year!! It is very sad. My veterinarian says, "there was nothing you could have done. don't be discouraged." How could I not? 
My kidding season is over and it is terrible that I have no more does to kid. 
Keep breeding those goats and dont be discouraged!!


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## mjgh06 (Sep 4, 2012)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I'm so sorry, it does sound like chlamydia to me too. Does any one have thoughts on treating before delivery to be sure before you find out the hard way when it's a newer herd?


You can use Biomycin 1 cc per 20 lb given once weekly , SQ,until the doe kids for pregnant does after the first month of pregnancy, ( this was posted from a vet in a thread on here http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/la-200-during-goat-pregnancy-info-interesting-101572/ ) or 20mg/kg IM at 105 days and 120 days (from IVIS http://www.ivis.org/advances/disease_tempesta/rodolakis_chlamydiosis/ivis.pdf . However, it does not prevent the shedding of the chlamydia bacteria at birthing and cannot guarantee full protection.

Many veterinary manuals have cited that once a goat aborts from chlamydia, they build up an immunity to the bacteria similar to receiving the vaccine.


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## Marty1876 (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm so sorry you've lost so many kids, how disheartening. I too would worry about chalmydia or CAE. Are your animals tested regularly? I sure hope you do't lose anymore!


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## OutlawAcres (Jan 25, 2013)

clearwtrbeach said:


> I'm so sorry, it does sound like chlamydia to me too. Does any one have thoughts on treating before delivery to be sure before you find out the hard way when it's a newer herd?


That's what I have come to the conclusion that it is. I have treated EVERYTHING.


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## JJR133 (Jan 13, 2013)

I agree it's hard not to be discouraged but you learn from this past kidding season and keep breeding. I lost many, and I mean a lot of kids this past month and it makes me sick to my stomach of the number of kids I lost but I have to do some research and learn to fix what the problem and continue to breed my boer goats.


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## boerlover95 (Jan 24, 2013)

Wow! I had no idea goats could get STD's I swear there gettin more human like to me every time I get on here 

I'm really sorry about ur kids tho  if this happened to me I would probably get out of goats but I hope ur other 4 does have LIVE kids


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