# Hugely Engorged Udder, Labor is Stalled



## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I've got a FF boer doe who started to go into labor today. While feeling her udder, I noticed that it has a scabby sore on the underside, and it also hugely engorged, to the point where it looks like it will pop and any second. This isn't your usual 'swollen because she is about to give birth' swollen, this is something else. I cannot milk anything out. All I get is a few drops of clear, thick liquid. It is bright red and very very painful. I have been doing massages and hot compresses. 

Labor has also completely stopped. She wasn't in strong labor, but she was starting to get somewhere.

I have never seen or experienced anything like this, and I am completely stumped on what to do. Banamine? 

Oh, did I mention it's 15 degrees outside? :shock:


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Is it rock hard? When you press your finger into the tissue does an indentation stay for a bit? Is she CAE free? I'm thinking edema or mastitis if she is clear, but hard udder and no milk is usually CAE... But if you can leave an indent that is edema.
Banamine can help with with the swelling. If labor is stalled, you probably have a malpresenting kid as well, I would go fishing and see what's up.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I honestly do not know if she is CAE free. She is a younger doe who was given to me this summer by my neighbor. So I don't know a lot about her. 

I will go out and see if I can leave an indent on it.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Is it possible it's an infection? 

Does CAE usually present itself with a clear, thick liquid? Her udder is not rock hard in a literal sense, but it is hard.


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## llazykllamas (Dec 20, 2012)

The fact that "labor has stalled" has me more worried than the hard udder. You could have a large, malpresented kid. I would go in and see what I felt or get a vet out ASAP!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

She was not in very active labor.... Having *possible* contractions here and there, but no Amber discharge, etc. so at the moment I am not super concerned about that. 

Just went out and checked on her; she is having a little bit of whiteish discharge. Udder is larger, possibly a little softer? 

Finger did not leave an indent, so not thinking edema.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

An infection would usually just be mastitis, and the udder tissue will be swollen, but you usually can milk them. Maybe she's just very congested, was she fed high protein feed/more grain toward the end of the pregnancy? 
Some of mine never have amber discharge so you can't always go by that. I think just to be on the safe side, I would check anyways to see if she is dilated or has a stuck kid that is stopping contractions.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Well by the looks of her, she is definitely not dialated enough for me to go in and check. Her udder is fuller, and one test is hard. She suddenly got ravenous and is now chowing on hay. 

There was no changes in feed that I know of, so I don't think its that....

This one is a head scratcher!!! ullhair:


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

This morning her udder is more swollen. 
Went in and her cervix is not dialated at all.


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

Any chance you can post a couple photos of her back end and udder? Do you have an accurate due date for her? Have the kids "dropped" (not high up on the left side any more - doe is hollow looking)?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

No due date, didn't know she was bred until she started to bag up a few weeks ago. Let me charge my phone, and then I'll get some pictures of her, her udder, and the scab/wound.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh and yes, she has been dropped and ligaments gone for about a week and a half now...


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## Emzi00 (May 3, 2013)

That's not good, I hope everything is going to be okay


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Here's some pictures... She's not in distress, eating, drinking, pooping, peeing just fine. The vet will be out later this morning, he is putting one of the dogs down  but we are going to have him look at her.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

It's only letting me upload one at a time


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

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## top_goat (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm sure glad you have a vet coming out! Let us know what he says!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

This is her left side of the udder.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm wondering if she stabbed her udder on something and it abscessed then led to a nasty infection. You still cant milk anything out?
Ligs are definitely gone, and she's very loose back there...


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## SalteyLove (Jun 18, 2011)

In addition to the wound on her udder - it looks like she may be starting a staph infection - see those white pustules to the left of the bloody area? Has it been quite wet in your part of the country lately? Usually moisture leads to staph. 

Since the labor is progressing bizarrely, I would get her out of the kidding jug for some exercise each day, make sure she walks around to keep everything moving and allow the kids to get in to position. 

For the staph infection (and the wound) I would wash the entire udder in diluted iodine followed by a Chlorohexidine wash. (you can get this as Hibiclens at the human pharmacy.) I also put plain Zinc Oxide cream (diaper rash) over staph infections after washing them - but I'm not sure if that is okay for the wound. Repeat the washing for three days to kick the staph. 

Have the vet draw a blood sample while he is there so you can send it in for CAE testing.

Good luck!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Vet was here, he didn't seem concerned. He thinks she's just not ready. The sore is superficial. Doesn't smell or anything. 
He's thinking that she's just not ready to have her kids yet, so that's why I can't get any milk out.... And that her right side of the udder still needs to fill. 
He didn't think CAE is an issue, either. He said she looks like she'll go soon, but not immediately. We did feel one baby though. A big one  

It's been cooooooold and frozen here. A little snow but not much.


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## nancy d (Oct 5, 2007)

I would wash off the wound & treat as Saltey has said and keep her in a dry as possible area.
Don't try milking. Kids are going to need all the colostrum.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

She is inside the barn in a kidding pen with lots of straw. 
Should I be concerned that I can't get anything at all out? What will the kids do?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I would be concerned. I would start the hot compressions and milk. You can bottle the kids the colostrum.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Got the Hibiclens and diaper rash cream.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I just did the iodine and Hibiclens wash. Still not able to get anything out. Her udder is filling up so much that the skin is starting to crack... She also hade more discharge that looked like a mucus plug. Went in and couldn't feel am obvious cervix, so I'm guessing she's statting to dialate.

Is it possible that a) she's just so swollen with milk, that's why she's so big? And b) am I not able to get anything out because she's holding it up for her babies? Just trying to think of anything that could be causing this...


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Maybe just a really firm milk plug? I'd hot compress the teats with lots of massaging and keep at it until I could get one squirt out just so you know the kids will be able to nurse.


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Scottyhorse said:


> She was not in very active labor.... Having *possible* contractions here and there, but no Amber discharge, etc. so at the moment I am not super concerned about that.


I don't want to discredit what anyone else has said about possible problems. But if she's comfortable and wasn't in hard labor when she stalled, I wouldn't worry. 
I have a Boer doe that has false labor for an evening exactly one week before she kids (on the morning of her due date). Every year without fail she follows this pattern. Drove me batty the first two years. Now I just shrug, "Mia's doing it again". I check her ligaments to be sure and I relax. 
Now, if she had/has any amber liquid or is in pain then immediately disregard what I just said and scrub up to check on things. 
Good luck with the udder. There's great advice here, I've nothing to add.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Talked to Leslie at Leaning Tree Farm and she is thinking edema as well. Have banamine, put bag balm on. Her udder is so full that the skin is stretching and cracking.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

It's now 12:15 and still no kids... When I got home she was lying down in the straw in a nest. She seemed very relaxed. I think the Bamamine is helping a bit. I gave her 1cc a few hours ago.


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Banamine is going to stall her labor out for quite a while. It is not supposed to be used in late pregnancy.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

We are almost there! I can get milk!!!!! Woohoo! Also in early labor stages. I think we'll have kids tonight!!!


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## deerbunnyfarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yay!!!


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Two bucklings  One red paint and 1 dark head broken traditional with a spot or two on his legs. They are doing pretty well. Haven't figured out how to nurse yet.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Cute!


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## dreamacresfarm2 (May 10, 2014)

nice looking boys


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Good I am glad she kidder for you now I hope her udder gets better


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## groovyoldlady (Jul 21, 2011)

Huzzah! Congratulations!!!!!!!!!


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## VVFarm (Dec 14, 2015)

Yippee!!!!
Such cute little guys


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

The smaller boy (traditional) is not doing well today. I ended up having to bring him inside this morning because he was too cold. Wouldn't take anything from the bottle anymore so after getting his temp up we tubed him. He has been wrapped up in blankets and towels with a hot rice pack since. Tried to bottle him again at 12 and wouldn't eat so we went ahead and tubed him again. He is pooping and peeing. Just not active at all and not wanting to suck. I am not sure what to do.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Did you give him B Complex?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I haven't yet, should I give orally or sub q? How much?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd give half a cc subq. I'm not sure how effective oral would be since he is over 12 hours old.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

1cc orally if it hasn't been more than 24hrs since he was born, otherwise sq. A teaspoon of cod liver oil is helpful too. 
What does he weigh and how much are you tubing him?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

We've been giving him about 4 oz


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok, I would wait a little while and offer him another bottle. Maybe he doesn't like the nipple as well. 

You can also drench of try and bottle him some electrolytes, as long as it is at least a half hour or longer after he had milk. 

Do the b-complex, cod oil if you got it. Check his temp again. Keep him warm, but not too warm.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

I gave him 1cc of the b complex orally, but it's just kinda dripping out with spit. Sub q now?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Yes since he is over 24 hours old.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Yeah, sq. 

Give him some baking soda water, it'll help settle his stomach if that is his issue. 

Does the does milk seem fine?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Doesn't seem to have any tummy upsets.... Just refuses to nurse from the bottle :shrug: he seems more active, though. We are going into town for a few hours, so I'll try and get some cod liver oil while we're out, and also see what the big feed store has. 

Last night, when I tortured his mom and milked some colostrum for him and his brother, he took the bottle fine and drank it eagerly. So.... Not sure what happened between then and this morning when he started to refuse the bottle....


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

He still won't eat. He won't take anything from the bottle. He's got diarrhea now too. I don't know what to do.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Is his brother nursing from both sides? If so does he seem fine, or did you milk out the side he doesn't nurse from? If she has an infection in one side, the milk in that side will make the kids sick.
If all is good, then it must be a different problem. 
I would give him some C&D antitoxin. Check his temp, if it is running on the high side I would start antibiotics. Drench with some baking soda to neutralize his stomach, give electrolytes. 
However if there is a possibility that the milk on the side you milked from is bad, start him on the cows milk recipe after keeping him on electrolytes for a bit.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

He took two bottles of electrolytes this morning!!! Yay!! Still having diarrhea, I think the milk replacer doesn't agree with him. However his brother is on it and seems fine. So the small one inside is getting electrolytes and pepto. Once he is dried up I will start him on the cows milk recipe. So relieved!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Good news!! :woohoo: You could mix it up and then mix it 50/50 with cow milk, but I would just do the cows milk recipe.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Back to not taking the bottle  going to wait and make him really hungry before I try again.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Have him a bath to clean the diarrhea off, and then offered him a bottle. He chugged 3/4 cup of Formula 911!!! Woohoo! I guess for now we just need to keep him hungry and spread feedings out a little more so he'll eat. He's still got the runs. Gave him another 1/2 cc of the pepto. I'll continue the electrolytes for now. Anything else I can do to help him? Once he is taking the bottle regularly and vigorously, he gets to move back outside with his brother (who is also on the bottle and doing just fine) and mom.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Is the formula 911 electrolytes? I wouldn't put him back on any replacer at all. Kaopectate is better at stopping diarrhea.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Just wondering but why is his brother on a bottle? I also agree I am not a replacer person I like the vit. D milk mix better.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Is the formula 911 electrolytes? I wouldn't put him back on any replacer at all. Kaopectate is better at stopping diarrhea.


It's electrolytes, nutrients and sugars.

I can see if my dad'll take me into town later to get Kaopectate.

When he is no longer scouring we have plans to put him on the cows milk mix.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

RPC said:


> Just wondering but why is his brother on a bottle? I also agree I am not a replacer person I like the vit. D milk mix better.


They are on the bottle because their dam refuses to nurse them.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

...


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

Did you test the dam for mastitis?


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh OK just wondered


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

audrey said:


> Did you test the dam for mastitis?


No, we didn't. However his brother did not seem to get sick from her colostrum, and I would imagine he would have if that was the case. The colostrum also looked fine, so I'm not thinking its mastitis.

Update for today- Pipsqueak has drank a whole quart of electrolytes since last night at about 10 pm. Now 4:20 pm. His poops are still diarrhea, however starting last night they have slowly gotten a little more formed! Woohoo! He is much more active and always hungry, and taking the bottle easier. However, he is still standing hunched up. Hopefully the diarrhea will reside soon. Do I need to wait to start him on the cows milk mixture until his poops are fully formed again, or can I start giving him a little? I have not seen a hungrier bottle baby.


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

I would give him a bigger dose of kaopectate or pepto to help clear up that diarrhea faster. When his diarrhea clears up more to a semi solid state I would start him on milk again.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

How big of a dose?


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces (Apr 7, 2013)

Around 6cc


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## goathiker (Apr 14, 2011)

Mastitis doesn't start until the milk comes in. How did everything look when you milked her out tonight


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Diarrhea is gone and Pip is now started on the cows milk mixture! He's loving it. So far he's had 1 cup divided between two feedings.

Jill; I haven't milked her out completely. the only time I've actually milker her is to get colostrum for her kids and it took almost an hour to get 6oz from her.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

That is awaking news congrats sounds like he will be fine


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Pipsqueak is having 90% normal poops so he'll be moving back outside with his dam and brother!  

Question- whole milk from the store is $4 a gallon here. Got a whole bunch of low heat pasteurized whole cows milk from a friend. Do I still need to add the evaporated milk and butter milk?


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

You don't have to. I have done the milk recipe and just whole milk. The recipe just adds extra fat to help them grow but you don't have to do it.


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks  

Pipsqueak seems to be enjoying being back outside now that he's better. Mom took him back right away and was really pleased and relieved to have him back. 

She is nursing Rufus, who has been with her the entire time, on the right side of her udder. That's the good side. So he isn't nursing as much off the bottle which I guess is a good thing  She has dried up a bit, which I think is also a good thing, so her udder can heal easier.


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## RPC (Nov 6, 2009)

That's awesome glad it is all working out.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

How is the dams udder?


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

I am just getting a chance to read through your whole thread. With the bottle baby, do you have the Goats prefer powdered probios? If so, add a tiny bit of that to each bottle. Someone recommended that to us, and we never, ever had any issues with tummy problems from the bottle baby we had, or the babies we've supplemented 

BTW, any new pics of those adorable boys?


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## Scottyhorse (Feb 11, 2013)

audrey said:


> How is the dams udder?


Thankfully she has dried up a lot, and her udder is beginning to show signs of healing 

-----

Pipsqueak is still doing pretty good. He is definitely a little 'special' up top and still has difficulty with some things, but is doing very well in general 
Rufus has stopped taking the bottle and is now solely nursing off of his dams right side. Her left side is even, which is good. He is a tank and if he has a good growth rate, I'll use him as a wether for the May livestock show


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