# Am I doing the right thing??



## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I’ve searched all the threads on here for 2 days and still not sure I’m doing the right thing. I took a fecal sample on Friday to the vet and it came back good. The count was less then 200 and only stronglyes was found. My Elvis had pale eyelids I’d say a 4-5 on Monday but eats drinks pees and is his normal self. They are 6 month Pygoras and around their eyes is very pink but their gums have always been pale yet their eyelids are pretty pink. I gave liquid b-12 on his food should I keep doing it?


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## 15WildTurkey (Apr 13, 2015)

Look at Replamin plus too. It’s a way of guaranteeing they are getting the necessary minerals


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I will do that ty is that a different kind of loose mineral?


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

If his eyelids are pale, I would think barberpole or other stomach worms. Sometimes (as in the case of the vet here) the vet does fecals and doesn't differentiate between them it seems, just calls them strongyles. Our vet did that here and when I ran the fecal with my parasitology book, I could tell it was BP, not strongyle. A lot of the worms look similar and there are detailed small differences.

B-12 won't help the root cause. If his eyes are at 4-5 you need to find the cause. If it's barberpole, it can take them down quick, they're pale due to blood loss (anemia) somewhere.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

I was afraid of bp and asked if they would and did you check for that specifically and she said they did and there were none. I waited while they checked. I think I’ll take another one and repeat what you said though ty


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Is he showing any signs of needing copper? They will become anemic if they are not getting enough copper


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Jessica84 said:


> Is he showing any signs of needing copper? They will become anemic if they are not getting enough copper


Nope not at all. I wondered that too and researched it. I read that because pygoras are fiber like sheep they don't require as much copper as other goats. I don't know if that's true or not? They have fluffy healthy coats and act healthy. I just can't figure out why he's pale all of a sudden. I was going to get red cell but thought the b-12 would help red blood cells reproduce. I called our co op extension and they said we've had so much rain our minerals have been leached. We are low on everything. They get 2 different kinds of loose minerals and forage daily. I'm at a loss.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I would do b-12 and red cell. You do red cell for 5 days straight and then once a week until they get to the borderline famacha.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

elvis&oliver said:


> I was afraid of bp and asked if they would and did you check for that specifically and she said they did and there were none. I waited while they checked. I think I'll take another one and repeat what you said though ty


Hmmm. I do my own now which is why I was able to tell. I spent a while looking at it though and comparing because they really are very subtle changes in the differences.

Copper loss does cause anemia too but I don't know about those kinds of goats.

Lack of iron can cause it and if you say your minerals are low in the land, it may help to do redcell.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Jubillee said:


> Hmmm. I do my own now which is why I was able to tell. I spent a while looking at it though and comparing because they really are very subtle changes in the differences.
> 
> Copper loss does cause anemia too but I don't know about those kinds of goats.
> 
> Lack of iron can cause it and if you say your minerals are low in the land, it may help to do redcell.


I'll try that then and take another sample and ask her to look again. Thank you so much


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Worms can be complicated that's for sure. Are you just pulling the lower lid down, or checking it like in this video below (towards the end of the video). I gently pull down on the eyelid, and if I suspect it looks lighter in color, then I try to check the way they show in the video just to be sure. 
We have one doe, if I just checked lower eyelid by pulling it down, she would look pale, but if I do it like in the video, she looks fine.





If she is anemic, and wormy, then I would recommend finding a good dewormer for your area. Here, for anemic goats I use Quest, Quest Plus or Cydectin and that usually works well. We use Quest at 3x a horse dose (50lb. goat gets 150lbs of dewormer).
Cydectin Sheep drench is 2x the sheep dosage.
We use Cydectin Pour On orally.
If you only have to deworm him and don't have a big herd then I would just use Quest, cheaper... repeat dosage in 10 days. Do a fecal 10 days after that to make sure it kills off the worms.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

@HoosierShadow My goodness all I've done is pull down the lower lid! I had no idea I was doing it wrong. I watched the end thank you I'll definitely do that tomorrow.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Don't worry, it happens to all of us lol! I know it took me years before I realized I was doing it wrong.


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## Goats Rock (Jun 20, 2011)

It does not damage their eyeball to push on it like in the video. They are more mad because you are holding them still and messing with their eyes. A lot of folks are afraid to check the lower eyelids correctly because they are afraid it damages the goat's eyes. Nope....


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

To answer an earlier question, Replamin Gel Plus is a gel, not a loose mineral.

Pygoras still need copper, as do sheep.

Sheep here (where I live) are suffering because people read or hear that "Sheep don't need near the amounts of copper that goats do" (which is very true) and what gets into their heads is "Sheep mustn't ever, ever, have any copper whatsoever, it is poison. Don't even treat their thrush because the treatment has copper in it!"

Meanwhile, we have the same copper antagonists working against copper in sheep as we do against copper in goats, because the antagonists don't read nutritional literature.

Can't fault them really, what with iron and sulpher not being literate and all...

'Nough said about that. Bottom line, Pygoras and Angoras still need copper.

One last thing, Anemia can take a super long time to correct. That is the reason for @Jubillee's caution of stopping the iron supplementation at the borderline, because the correction keeps happening and if you supplement iron until they are nice and red again, then you have probably overdosed them.

@HoosierShadow has given both of us a fantastic way to fine-tune our eyelid checking. You'll be able to tell much better now what is actually happening with the anemia.

Be patient. Worms and interactions are complicated, as said above. Your goats are super lucky to have you caring for and about them.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

@mariarose @Goats Rock Thank you I wondered about the copper being correct when I read that and with their coats in hard to tell so I check the tails? The rest of their body has very curly thick fiber and it's white so it will be hard to tell if there's a slight deficiency. But their tails have a straighter hair and it's not fishtailed. I'm going to check his lids the way in the video is shown this am the correct way. So glad I asked because I probably would do exactly that and keep going until they were hot pink and over due it. Thank again everyone I know I get over worried


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

elvis&oliver said:


> Thank again everyone I know I get over worried


You get the exact amount worried. Worried enough to ask. Worried enough to listen.

Exact amount of worried needed.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Really good advice given by all.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Jubillee said:


> Hmmm. I do my own now which is why I was able to tell. I spent a while looking at it though and comparing because they really are very subtle changes in the differences.
> I checked the correct way this m
> Copper loss does cause anemia too but I don't know about those kinds of goats.
> 
> Lack of iron can cause it and if you say your minerals are low in the land, it may help to do redcell.





Jubillee said:


> Hmmm. I do my own now which is why I was able to tell. I spent a while looking at it though and comparing because they really are very subtle changes in the differences.
> 
> Copper loss does cause anemia too but I don't know about those kinds of goats.
> 
> Lack of iron can cause it and if you say your minerals are low in the land, it may help to do redcell.


I checked the right way finally and he's a definite 3 but I think I'll take another sample in anyway. Would it hurt to give red cell until then? Also where did you get your microscope and charts for parasite checking yourself? I would like to do that as well.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

If the goat is anemic, yes, give red cell.


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## Jubillee (Dec 22, 2017)

I did not know this was the way to check!! I always pulled the lid down. So I watched the video and went and tried it...wow what a difference! A couple that always seemed to stay lighter (by just pulling the lower lid) were deep pink when the bottom popped out. 

Thanks for sharing that video!!


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

And the current heroine is (drumroll)..........
@HoosierShadow!!!!

And the crowd goes wild!!!!


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

mariarose said:


> And the current heroine is (drumroll)..........
> @HoosierShadow!!!!
> 
> And the crowd goes wild!!!!


Definitely!


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## Goat town (May 6, 2018)

Shame you can’t get a famacha card unless you go to a course


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

I’m sorry I know it’s not about post but, how do you start a form/post


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

I’m having issues, we are raising Nubians and are having problems. We are fairly new to this and aren’t very happy with the out come so far. We need a list of every vitamin,booster, grow gel, powder everything I need for These 4 month old babies and 3 month pregnant nannies. PLEASE HELP!!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

Ok hopefully this looks about the same as what your seeing on whatever your using. I use the app but I'm going to assume your not. Anyways on the top left corner you will see the lines (heck if I know what it's really called) click it.








Then go down to forums and click that








You will scroll down and see a list of different things. Introduction, announcements and help and so on. Go down to health and wellness and click on it. When you do there should be towards the top that says post new thread. Go ahead and click it and go for it. If that is totally off if your using a computer let me know and I'll get mine going. Or if your using the app


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

On a computer screen, (not an app) you will see tabs at the top. Home, Forums, Media, etc. Click on Forums and that will take you to the page of all the forums. Choose the forum that best fits what you want to ask about. and click on it.

In this instance, I'd choose health and wellness, or Beginners Goat Raising.

Say you choose Beginners. Click on those words. You will see a dark button with the words POST NEW THREAD. Click on that button. Type your thread title, type your question/issue/request, click on the button that says CREATE THREAD.

Welcome, both to the world of goats, and to our site. We'll soon get you sorted.


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

@Jarrod & Jody
Awe good luck I know it's frustrating to worry about your goats health and have the need for advice. They will help you here and make you feel assured on what to do


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@Jarrod & Jody I don't see your thread yet, so this is something to get you started. The trifecta of healthy goats, what you need as a base, is quality hay, quality loose minerals, and quality water. We'll need to know what you are giving and any issues you have before we can move forward into supplements. Like, is your hay of poor quality or extremely stemmy? Is your water full of iron or calcium? What loose minerals are you giving them?

Then you'll need to tell us what results you are getting that you are so unhappy with, such as poor milk production, or goiters.

Different parts of the globe have different challenges. If we know where you are, we can be much more specific in our help.

Management practices are of immense influence in how a herd flourishes, or doesn't. We'll need some notion of how you keep your herd, such as do you pen, pasture, or free range? Do you worm on a routine or according to FAMACHA or fecals, and with what? Do you feed on or off the ground? Anything like that that you can think of can help us to help you.

We hope to see your thread soon. We're here for you.


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

I’m still lost on how to start a new forum , what I’m needing help with is weight gain on my babies. And all the vitamins they need I live in oklahoma. Please just a list of everything I need


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Are you on a PC or phone? You start a new thread. You need to pick an area like health & wellness and click on it. Then you should either see a big plus sign in a circle or new thread button.


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

Ok


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

I’m on an ipad on the sire not the app


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Jarrod & Jody said:


> I'm still lost on how to start a new forum


You can't start a new forum. You start a new thread.

You choose a forum by clicking on the forum tab at the top of the screen, and then clicking on the forum you choose.

Click on a dark button that says Post New Thread

Then you type your title, and then type your post.

Click on Create Thread. This is on a computor. I can't help with a phone. And I don't have an IPad either.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

Do you have those 3 horizontal lines at the top of your screen like @Jessica84 has? If so, you click on that and then click on the word Forums.


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

Thanks everyone FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT


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## Jarrod & Jody (Oct 16, 2017)

mariarose said:


> You can't start a new forum. You start a new thread.
> 
> You choose a forum by clicking on the forum tab at the top of the screen, and then clicking on the forum you choose.
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Jarrod & Jody said:


> Thank you!


Man everyone explained it good! I would be telling you all the wrong things for sure
Looking forward to seeing your post and the answers!


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## Jessica84 (Oct 27, 2011)

elvis&oliver said:


> Man everyone explained it good! I would be telling you all the wrong things for sure
> Looking forward to seeing your post and the answers!


Lol it's a pain because it's different on a PC, tablet, and phone then there is the App. It's all the same general idea just different areas and different way of showing it.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

elvis&oliver said:


> Man everyone explained it good! I would be telling you all the wrong things for sure
> Looking forward to seeing your post and the answers!


You've been really gracious in sharing your thread while we got this sorted out. Thank you.


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

@elvis&oliver 
How is Elvis doing?


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Oh gosh I learn from any thread so that’s ok with me
I am embarrassed to say I think I was pulling down his eyelid instead of the correct way to look. He’s still not a 1? But he’s a good 2-3. I took another sample to our lg animal clinic and got the same result. Less then 200 and I brought up the Bp again and that it can look like strongyles. She said she knows that and what to look for and he doesn’t have bp it’s a strongyle and low count. I felt kind of rude by asking about it but hey I wanted to know for sure.
He acts great eats like crazy runs around goes on our walks poops good pees good and his temp is 101.7So?
That’s why I was worried I’ve read so much about anemia and was afraid and didn’t know if I was doing the correct thing. Ty so much for asking and helping!)


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## mariarose (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm absolutely certain you were polite. 

Your vet understood your desire to be certain. If not, then that is exactly the kind of vet you need to question! So well done!

It'll be fine.


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## Nigerian dwarf goat (Sep 25, 2017)

i didnt know about that way of doing FAMACHA scoring either!


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## elvis&oliver (Jun 28, 2018)

Nigerian dwarf goat said:


> i didnt know about that way of doing FAMACHA scoring either!


I'm always learning that's for sure!


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