# Critiquing Dairy Goats 2.0



## margaret

Critique thread #3! 
Which doesn't make sense because it's labeled as 2.0 
But it sort of does make sense because the last one was a sequel. Anyway here it is 
As is tradition we will start by critiquing Oreo







JK! You don't have to do her, she's already been critiqued about a hundred times:lol:
I mean, you can if you want to, but I'm really just putting her picture up because she's beautiful:ROFL:

Someone else can post a goat for us to do though.

A couple rules--Please post clear, unobstructed photos at least 5 feet away from young kids, 10-12 feet from adults, and be at the level of the goat. Photos of their front end and rear end are even more helpful, top view can also be of use.


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## deerbunnyfarm

Following!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I never noticed Oreo was the first posted on every thread 

Anyway, one more rule:
If you want a meat goat critiqued, please post them on the Learning to Critique Meat Goats Thread


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Are we going to stop this as a trilogy or keep going? :lol:


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## GoatMama123

Hello! Please give input on my sweet first doeling Blanche. She is 7 months old. This was her first time in the stand, so she is a little tense in the side view.


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## Goatzrule

Are bucks allowed?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Are we going to stop this as a trilogy or keep going? :lol:


Nah, it should be a series :lol:

See, there's:
Learning to Critique
Learning to Critique Meat Goats 1
Learning to Critique for Dummies 1.5

And now we got Critiquing Dairy Goats 2.0!

Definitely a series :lol: Except Margaret forgot the _"Learning to Critique"_ in this thread's title to keep the tradition going :lol:



Goatzrule said:


> Are bucks allowed?


Absolutely, Kelsie! Post away


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## margaret

I claim Blanche!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I see no critique of Blanche yet... :lol:


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## margaret

I'm not doing too well right now, we had to put one of my milking does down this morning. 
And also busy with Oreo's babies, so not up to critiquing right now.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Aw, oh no! What happened?


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## margaret

Megan, I'm not completely sure. It started with a simple eye infection, I wasn't too worried about it. Started treating with Terramycin and it didn't improve. One day she was perfectly healthy, producing almost 2 gallons a day, eating well, only thing wrong was her cloudy irritated eye which didn't bother her too much.
2 days later her eye had gotten REALLY bad and something else set in. Off her feed, wouldn't drink, down to producing about a 1/2 gallon a day. We took her to the vet yesterday and there seemed to be improvement. Our vet gave us some antibiotics and meds for her eye and for pain. This morning she was on her side unable to get up. She was thrashing and kicking and seemed to be having trouble breathing. Her eye was completely dead.We got her sitting up and she kicked her self back down again, over and over. She had fluid in her lungs and soon could hardly breathe and was too weak to even keep her head up. In the end there was nothing we could do but put her out of her misery

There was something else going on apart form the eye, but I don't really know what and it all happened so fast, it doesn't quite seem real.
My vet did mention respiratory problems, but didn't seem to think it was too serious.


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## margaret

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> I never noticed Oreo was the first posted on every thread


She was posted first on the very first thread. The one that strarted it all so long ago:lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Aw, man  That's rough. Was it a favorite doe?


Yeah :lol: and she looks a lot better conformation-wise it her latest pic :lol:


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## margaret

She sort of was, yeah And an awesome milker too.


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## GoatMama123

Sorry for your loss


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## GoatMama123

Anyone else want to take a shot at an evaluation?


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## nicolemackenzie

GoatMama123 said:


> Hello! Please give input on my sweet first doeling Blanche. She is 7 months old. This was her first time in the stand, so she is a little tense in the side view.


Overall looks like a nice girl.

Pros
Good width in the rear
Nice general appearance
A little fuzzy but I think has nice rear leg angulation.

Cons
Low in the shoulder ( but could be the way she's standing or an awkward growth stage)
Toes out in front


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## GreenMountainNigerians

Is this photo good enough to critique? I don't have her here yet to get rear and front views. 
She is 10 days old.


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## margaret

I'll do Blanche tonight or tomorrow morning
She's on my to-do list, just haven't gotten there yet:lol:


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## goatygirl

It's hard to judge with her age and with all the fuzz
She could be stronger throughout her top line. 
I like her front leg placement. 
She stands well into her front heels although she should step deeper into her back heels.


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## GreenMountainNigerians

goatygirl said:


> It's hard to judge with her age and with all the fuzz
> She could be stronger throughout her top line.
> I like her front leg placement.
> She stands well into her front heels although she should step deeper into her back heels.


Thank you goatie girl. It's awful to try and see through fluff


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## margaret

GreenMountainNigerians, she's cute!
But I agree, hard to see through all that adorable baby fuzz


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## GreenMountainNigerians

margaret said:


> GreenMountainNigerians, she's cute!
> 
> But I agree, hard to see through all that adorable baby fuzz


It'll be fun to get her clipped for show season and see what she has under there! 
Thank you


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## Carleyjsouza

Lamancha. Turned a year feb 16th. FF


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## Carleyjsouza

Don't know why it didn't post both pics. This is the same doe.


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## LuvMyNigies

Carleyjsouza said:


> Lamancha. Turned a year feb 16th. FF


Here is my amateur critique:
--
Nice level rump
Slender neck
Nice dairy body
Good pasterns
Blends well throughout

Plus she's really pretty! 
I'm not really experienced with critiquing, but I'm trying to learn.

I learned most of what I know from reading the (first?) Critiquing dairy goats, so if I mess up, not my fault!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm doing that lamancha, Margaret!


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## margaret

*Blanche*

I'm not feeling super jugdey today so this might not be too long but here ya go:lol:

Cons:
~should be more uphill
~needs more width between front legs
~More width in the chest
~Slight toe out in front
~short rump
~needs more dairy character and femininity 
~leaner longer neck

Pros:
~She has a cute face:lol:
~nice rear leg set
~Good width between hocks
~strong rear pasterns
~nice depth of body for a 7 mo
~rump is pretty good (for a Nigie:lol
~appears to have good angulation in the rear legs, she's very fuzzy so hard to tell
~sharp withers
~Clean withers
~Smooth shoulders
~Nice rump width

OK, that's it for now. My brain doesn't want to do fuzzy goats anymore:lol:


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## margaret

I am too though:lol:

Cons:
~Hocks don’t line up with pins
~Back legs stretched out too far
~Needs more strength in the rear legs
~Shallow body
~Lacks depth in the heart girth
~Lacks depth in barrel
~Looks to toe out in front
~Needs more capacity in udder

Pros:
~Lovely head
~Very long body
~OK length to rump
~Long neck
~Lean neck
~Sharp withers 
~Clean withers
~Smooth withers
~Smoothly blended from the withers into the shoulders
~Blends nicely from the withers into the neck
~Decent brisket
~Nice clean, smooth withers
~Very level throughout
~Level topline
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~Level rump
~Uphill
~No ewe neck
~Nice width in rump
~Nice width between hocks
~Strong pasterns(Though a little long)
~Nice rear legs
~Nice shape to udder
~Nice rear udder attachments
~Well placed teats
~Looks to have good fore udder attachments too


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## Carleyjsouza

Thank you! She freshened with 2 doe kids 3 days ago.


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## COgoatLover25

It looks like every goat posted has gotten at least 1 critique so far. Remember to try to keep this thread free of chat unrelated to conformation 
Do we have any other goats to be done?


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## margaret

Yay, Lindsey came
Someone post a goat please?
If not...I can.


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## nicolemackenzie

Here's Tilly as a two year old.


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## emilieanne

Here's two! 
Kids (; 
They are twin sisters out of 3. Let's see how good my breeding went this year!


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## emilieanne

PS! Ignore the background lol and the second doe, Star, I know she has hair back legs which make them look posty but if you had your hands on them you'll know they're not!


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## emilieanne

I'll take a shot at Tilly! 
I like her top line. I feel as if she could walk a little more uphill. 
She has nice legs just in her back legs I feel they could be a little less angled. She's also not as deep or wide ribbed as I'd like. But over all nice doe! She has nice prominent withers and a nice flat rump! (I like long rumps so id tell you is like it a bit wider and longer but that's my personal preference) 
Lol 
Someone correct me.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Just flipping your one picture around, emilieanne http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Goatzrule

Old pictures of her first freshening year. Granted she doesn't look great in these pictures because I didn't really know what I was doing. She has one leg in ADGA and got a couple overalls in 4H show I guess you could say I improved my showing skill. Anyway.....Iris aka Ellie


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## Goatzrule

:anyone:


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## Dairy_goat

I can give it a shot, but I have never critiqued a doe before......  She is very pretty! :thumb:


Nice fore udder attachment
Good back legs, nice angle of the hocks
lots of depth and width! 
great rear udder arch
lots of milk capacity
nice strong looking rear pastern

cons:
teats could be a little bit more centrally located
the front leg assembly is a little to forward
could have a little bit more of a smooth neck to wither transition
the front pasterns could be a little more upright (hard to tell in the pictures)


Can someone please correct my critique?


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## Goatzrule

Thats what I usually get told at shows, good job for your first time!!!


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## Bree_6293

I would like to try to critique one. Which one needs doing?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Tilly and those two Nigi kids. You can also do the Nigi Kelsey did if you want as well


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## margaret

I'm _going_ to do Tilly


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Lol, really  Took you awhile to decide on that one  :lol:


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I think I'll try and do it  I haven't done this before so tell me what I got wrong!

Emilieanne's chamoisee doeling
Pros
Level topline
Good pasterns 
Long dairy neck
She has a "dairy look"
And she is really pretty! 

Cons
Could be more uphill
Legs are a bit bent (could that be a deficiency of some sort?) 
Could use more depth 
Her rump might be a little short and flat, but it might just be that she's a baby...
I think her withers could blend more smoothly into neck and topline, but I never quite understood what a perfect withers looks like, so :chin:

Did I do alright!? :laugh:


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Here's my doe, Pinky.


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## Bree_6293

I will do pinky! Just give me a little bit of time haha I am not quick at them yet!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I'm going to try and do emilieanne's buckskin doeling....

Pros
Great pasterns
Good body capacity
Level topline
Long slender neck
Fairly good dairy wedge

Cons 
Topline might could be longer
Rump is a bit short
Withers could be smoother

Now someone else should do them, that's all the body parts i know :lol:


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## margaret

Yay, Pinky:lol:

Look Megan, I did Tilly!:lol:
Cons:

-Lacks body capacity
-Needs more depth in heart girth
-Needs more depth in barrel
-Longer rump
-Ewe necked
-Would like to see smoother blended shoulders
-Needs to blend more smoothly from the shoulders into the neck
-Smoother blending from the neck into the brisket
-Needs higher rear udder(I’m assuming she wasn’t very full in the pic)
Pros:
-Long body
-Long neck
-Lean neck
-Level body
-Level topline
-Strong topline
-Strong chine
-Nice dairy character
-Good angularity throughout
-Very level
-Strong pasterns
-Looks to have good width between hocks
-Squarely set rear legs
-Hocks line up nicely with pens
-Front legs look straight and strong
-Doesn’t look to toe out in front

Yes I know that was short...I promise I'll do better next time:lol:


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## Cedar Point Kikos

*claps enthusiastically* :lol:

Great job! :lol: And I'm taking you up on that promise


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## nicolemackenzie

margaret said:


> Yay, Pinky:lol:
> 
> Look Megan, I did Tilly!:lol:
> Cons:
> 
> -Lacks body capacity
> -Needs more depth in heart girth
> -Needs more depth in barrel
> -Longer rump
> -Ewe necked
> -Would like to see smoother blended shoulders
> -Needs to blend more smoothly from the shoulders into the neck
> -Smoother blending from the neck into the brisket
> -Needs higher rear udder(I'm assuming she wasn't very full in the pic)
> Pros:
> -Long body
> -Long neck
> -Lean neck
> -Level body
> -Level topline
> -Strong topline
> -Strong chine
> -Nice dairy character
> -Good angularity throughout
> -Very level
> -Strong pasterns
> -Looks to have good width between hocks
> -Squarely set rear legs
> -Hocks line up nicely with pens
> -Front legs look straight and strong
> -Doesn't look to toe out in front
> 
> Yes I know that was short...I promise I'll do better next time:lol:


Thanks!

I think her depth has improved with another year on her. I don't care for her shoulders. She was pretty empty in the photo.

I am selling her and keeping her daughter who I think is an improvement. I'll have to put up a photo of her daughter Edy soon.


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## deerbunnyfarm

I'll put a pic out there for someone to critique!!

This is Barli, a nine month old minimancha. I asked my husband to take the picture while I held her and he was hurrying to get back to work sooo... Not the best picture, sorry!! Barli is in rare form today, she even broke into our house while we were at the library and took a nap on our couch, little devil!!

She's being bred to a buckling with a loooong level topline, super excited to see babies!!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do Barli! She's a gorgeous goat  I LOVE mini manchas with ears!! 

Pros
Good pasterns
Strong shoulders (I'm not quite sure what bad shoulders look like, but she looks alright to me ;-))
Nice depth/body capacity
Strong front legs
Not under or overshot jaw

Cons
Topline needs to be longer and more level
She could be more upright in general
Could be more dairy in appearance
Neck is a bit thick
Toes out a little
Rump could be less steep and longer
Withers could blend better into her neck

That's all I could think of. :lol:


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## deerbunnyfarm

Thanks!!! I'm hoping I picked a good buck for her, I think I did. He is very long, very level, his rump is super straight. He's also super wide. I think he excels in the areas she is lacking but, we'll see! It's my first time.


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## goatygirl

Sorry for the quality of pictures but the udder pic was a week before her first freshening. 
Her name is Artemis


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## toth boer goats

Nice goat.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Artemis:

Pros:
-Clean jaw
-Long jaw
-Good jaw length
-Good depth in jaw
-Straight profile
-Clean throat latch
-Feminine neck
-Good neck length
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder
-Neck blends smoothly into brisket
-Sharp withers
-Good shoulder assembly
-Front legs placed squarely below shoulder
-Good chest floor
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good body length
-Good body capacity
-Good depth in barrel
-Long topline
-Good hindquarter assembly
-Shoulder-barrel-hindquarter is all nicely blended and well attached to each other
-Good rump length
-Uphill
-Good dairy character
-Nice straight front legs
-Nice width between hocks
-Good width in thurls
-Thurls look pretty even


Cons:
-Lacks brisket
-Neck to withers could be more smoothly blended
-Head could be a tad more refined
-Ears could be placed a tad more forward 
-Topline could be more smooth
-Topline could be more level
-Rump could be more level
-Toes out in rear
-Toes out in fore
-Bone could be a bit more refined in front legs
-Hips are narrower then thurls/pins

***She's too stretched in the last pic to properly evaluate her hindquarter, rump and hind legs properly there, so going off the top picture for her legs


Udder:
Disclosure: :lol: I'm not too good at them since I don't raise dairy goats 

Pros:
-Nice level udder floor
-Strong medial (even though it looks off center)
-Good arch
-Good rear attachments
-Good capacity
-Nice shape - round not oblong or anything 
-Nice sized teats

Cons:
-halves are not even
-Teats are placed too far out
-Fore attachments could be better
-Teats tilt forward



I feel like I'm missing some things on her...:chin:


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## Carleyjsouza

3 week old lamancha doeling


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## Suzanne_Tyler

She's really pretty! What's her name? I'll do her, hopefully someone else will too I'm not that good yet...

Pros
Uphill
Overall correct and dairy look
Long slender neck
Well angled rump
Level topline
Straight profile
Fairly good pasterns
Withers blend smoothly into topline

Cons
Rump could be longer
Withers and neck should blend more smoothly
Front legs might be a little straighter
Pasterns are the tiniest bit weak
Could have more depth
Back legs could have cleaner angles


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## Carleyjsouza

Her name is Allie


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Allie is SO c-u-te!


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## Carleyjsouza

Thank you! She has an identical sister, they also look identical to their mom


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## margaret

I'm going to do Allie too
Cons
~Could be more level in the rump
~longer rump
~More angulation in the rear legs
~Looks like she _might_ toe out in front
~Rear legs don't look bad, but she could stand straighter and more squarely on them
~I'd like her to blend a little more smoothly from the withers into the shoulder and neck

Pros
~Very dairy
~Long body
~Very feminine
~Very upstanding
~Uphill
~Nice sharp withers
~long neck
~Lean neck
~long topline
~Level topline
~Strong chine
~strong back legs
~Hocks parallel with pins
~Strong rear pasterns

She's fluffy and very young so it's hard to tell too much about her, but she is a very nice little doe! Depth should come with age and I think she's going to turn out really nice as she matures.


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## margaret

What goats still need to be done?
Here, someone can do Dove
She's about 6 weeks old in this picture.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I take it you're asking for a list?


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## margaret

Yep


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## Bree_6293

Ok here goes pinky:
Cons:
Slightly turned out in back legs
Could blend better through neck/ withers
Steep rump
Slight dip just behind wither?
Teats go slightly out

Pros:
Good length in top line
Nice brisket
Good wedge
Strong topline 
Nice neck
Pretty head
Good solid bone
Good width in chest
Well shaped udder
Well attached udder (fore appears better than rear, but rear has tail in the way too)


This is what I got but some one might see more? Please let me know so I can learn on critiquing too


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## thegoatgirl

Goodness, this thread blew up fast! :lol: Anyways, I thought I'd drop in and say hi. :wave: I've been a complete slacker on this thread so far (and will probably continue to be one), but I might occasionally put some actual effort into critiquing. I'm getting out of practice! 

And Meg, I am so sorry to hear about your doe.  I know that must have been hard. :hug:


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Bree_6293 said:


> Ok here goes pinky:
> Cons:
> Slightly turned out in back legs
> Could blend better through neck/ withers
> Steep rump
> Slight dip just behind wither?
> Teats go slightly out
> 
> Pros:
> Good length in top line
> Nice brisket
> Good wedge
> Strong topline
> Nice neck
> Pretty head
> Good solid bone
> Good width in chest
> Well shaped udder
> Well attached udder (fore appears better than rear, but rear has tail in the way too)
> 
> This is what I got but some one might see more? Please let me know so I can learn on critiquing too


Thanks! That's about what I thought, too. She was bred to a really nice buck, he has way better conformation, the picture is one of their kids...


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Okay, one coming right up, Margaret!

Well, hey Ariella! :wave: Ya finally decided to show up, did ya  Gonna do any critiques while you're here? I'm coming up with a lovely list in a minute!  (hint, hint )


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Okay, so list:

Suzanne_Taylor has been doing a great job critiquing the goats that nobody else has done :lol: Congrats and thank you!

Righty-o, here ya are:

Iris AKA Ellie - Goatzrule, post 39, page 4. Dairygoat did her, but asked that someone would go over Ellie again.

Pinky - Suzanne_Taylor, post 48, page 5. Bree did her, but again asked for someone to go over her again.

Barli - deerbunnyfarm, post 54, page 6. Suzanne did her, but she can be done again 

Aremis - goatygirl, post 57, page 6. I did her, but her udder could be done better 

Dove - Margaret, post 66, page 7. Totally not done!

Then Suzanne's adorable Nigi kid on this page  Very nice, Suzanne!

Anyway, if you read through the thread and see a goat you would like to do but that has been "done", feel free to do them again! It can't hurt anything and will only improve the thread  Just remember to mention who you are doing so other folks know as well  (Margaret, you forget to do this!!!)http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## margaret

I'll do Pinky


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## Bree_6293

I will try dove-
Pros:
Lovely brisket
Good top line 
Good rump
Lovely feminine neck and face
Well proportioned head to neck/ body
Good shape on back legs
Nice front legs (may be photo but front right a bit turned?)

Cons: 
Could blend better through neck/ wither/ back??
I'm struggling to see cons!!!
Maybe a bit more depth to body?

She is a lovely dairy doe! Wow!
Sorry if this isn't much help but I just can't see the faults..


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## margaret

Thanks Bree
I like her a lot, I'm very pleased with her and her sisters


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## margaret

thegoatgirl said:


> Goodness, this thread blew up fast! :lol: Anyways, I thought I'd drop in and say hi. :wave: I've been a complete slacker on this thread so far (and will probably continue to be one), but I might occasionally put some actual effort into critiquing. I'm getting out of practice!
> 
> And Meg, I am so sorry to hear about your doe.  I know that must have been hard. :hug:


Thanks Ariella
I'm especially missing her milk production right now, of course it had to be one of my heaviest milkers!


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## margaret

Suzanne's doe, Pinky.

Cons:
~She has a chubby neck:lol:
~Hocky(I suppose I should say cow hocked or else I might get in trouble with Lacie:lol
~Toes need to be tighter 
~Could be more uphill
~steep rump
~Teats point out a bit
~Rear udder attachments could be better

Pros:
~Her face is adorable
~Clean jaw
~Long jaw
~wide jaw
~Strong deep jaw
~Clean throat latch
~Nice clean withers
~sharp withers
~Smooth shoulders
~Well blended shoulders
~Blends well from shoulders into the withers
~Blends Well from shoulders into the neck
~Blends well from shoulders into brisket
~Nice extension of brisket
~Straight strong front legs
~Good width between front legs
~Good width in the chest
~Deep chest
~Good depth in heart girth
~good body capacity, especially for a FF
~Good depth of barrel
~Good depth of rear barrel
~Fair length of rump
~Rear pasterns are decent
~Good width between hocks
~Good angulation to rear legs
~Hocks line up with pins
~Nice rear udder arch
~OK rear udder attachments
~Looks like she has good fore udder attachments
~Well placed teats
~Well defined medial
~Udder looks to be fairly capacious and I know she milks well
~Nicely shaped udder

Her main faults actually seem pretty common in the Nigerian breed. 
Her kid looks to be an improvement over her!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Yeah, Pinky's our chubby goat :lol: She got a little thin right after kidding and then within a few days she looked like she was pregnant again. :slapfloor:
I think the cow hocks in the one picture are because she hadn't been trimmed in three months, she was pregnant and I don't trim the last two months of pregnancy, and since I didn't have least idea when her due date was, the poor thing had horrible hooves.


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## margaret

It did look like she needed her hooves trimmed in one picture. I'm sure she looks much better with her hooves trimmed!

Hehe, I have goats like that too, always chubby:lol:


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## thegoatgirl

I'm just stalking for now, folks. :lol: Maybe I'll critique someone later on, but for now way too much stuff is going down at my end. Hopefully I'll get back in the loop soon, though!


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## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to critique Gypsy? I know some of you all did last year, but that was last year when she was all hair and not in milk!

I tried to practice clipping for shows but it did not turn out to well :/ What clippers do you use to clip for shows? How do you clip the udder so it is bald? (Some people say shave and some say clip with surgical blade) ~Thanks!

Her toes are a little long...I am trying to re-correct them.

The first four pictures she is 9hrs filled.



Edited:Added one more photo


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## COgoatLover25

Very nice doe Viktoria!


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## margaret

I'll say one thing-she's the nicest Alex daughter I've ever seen:lol: (I've owned a lot of her half-siblings and none of them ever looked anywhere near that nice!)
I'll critique her tomorrow I use a #10 blade for the body, and a #50 then a razor on the udder.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Nice girl! I'll do her too, just don't feel "critique-y" right now :lol:


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## nicolemackenzie

Gypsy

Pros
Flashy/ nice general appearance
Nice top line
Nice legs
Deep
Sharp/dairy
Nice capacious mammary
Not perfect but good placement 

Cons
Could use a wider longer more level rump
Toes out a bit


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## margaret

Gonna flip 2 of those pictures around to make it easier


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## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Gonna flip 2 of those pictures around to make it easier
> View attachment 105866
> 
> 
> View attachment 105867


Haha how did you do that? I have been trying to figure out how to flip pictures aroud on the website for forever.


----------



## Dairy_goat

COgoatLover25 said:


> Very nice doe Viktoria!


Thanks!!


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> Haha how did you do that? I have been trying to figure out how to flip pictures aroud on the website for forever.


I saved them on my computer, flipped them then reposted them
I don't know hos to do it on here.


----------



## Emzi00

Okay I don't feel like critiquing right now :lol: but I wanted to say that I like Gypsy a lot except for her rear udder attachments


----------



## margaret

OK, for Gypsy
Cons:
-Ewe necked
-longer neck
-More dairy neck
-Could be a tad stronger in the rear legs
-Rear pasterns could be stronger, not bad for a 5 y/o though!
-Rump could be longer
-Rear udder attachments are rather weak
-Very slight toe out in front
-Rear legs are a bit posty
Pros:
-Clean head
-Wide jaw
-Long jaw
-Strong jaw
-Clean throat latch
-Neck tapers off nicely at the top
-Smooth clean neck(Though could be longer and leaner)
-Neck blends smoothly into brisket
-Neck blends smoothly into chest
-Neck blends smoothly into shoulders
-Nice extension of brisket
-Deep chest
-Good width between front legs
-Sharp withers
-Clean, smooth withers
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good body capacity
-Good depth of barrel
-Long topline
-Level topline
-Strong topline
-Strong chine
-Nice rump angle
-Hocks line up with pins
-Thurls look good
-Good width between the hocks
-Nice rear leg set
-Good width between thurls
-Nice fore udder attachments
-Well placed teats
-Well defined medial


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Finally got a couple halfway decent pictures of Basil if anyone wants to critique them!! She's hard to photograph because she follows me everywhere and her topline looks perfect in motion and then looks horrible when she stands.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Yeah, I have a doe like that, great topline, and then I try to get some pictures. Not so great anymore. Oh, well.:roll:

Here's Basil:

Pros:
Good depth
Straight profile
Wide forehead
Smooth shoulders
Strong pasterns
Fairly level topline
Straight front legs
Good dairy wedge

Cons:
Short, thick neck
back legs might could be better angled?
Could have a deeper heart girth (not sure that's the correct terminology  )
Rump could be longer
Maybe she could be more uphill, but that's exactly what my doe looks like in pictures...

Is it okay to ask questions about critiquing on here, too?


----------



## margaret

I'll do Basil too
She looks great now!


----------



## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> ]
> 
> Is it okay to ask questions about critiquing on here, too?


Sure!


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> OK, for Gypsy
> Cons:
> -Ewe necked
> -longer neck
> -More dairy neck
> -Could be a tad stronger in the rear legs
> -Rear pasterns could be stronger, not bad for a 5 y/o though!
> -Rump could be longer
> -Rear udder attachments are rather weak
> -Very slight toe out in front
> -Rear legs are a bit posty
> Pros:
> -Clean head
> -Wide jaw
> -Long jaw
> -Strong jaw
> -Clean throat latch
> -Neck tapers off nicely at the top
> -Smooth clean neck(Though could be longer and leaner)
> -Neck blends smoothly into brisket
> -Neck blends smoothly into chest
> -Neck blends smoothly into shoulders
> -Nice extension of brisket
> -Deep chest
> -Good width between front legs
> -Sharp withers
> -Clean, smooth withers
> -Good depth in heart girth
> -Good body capacity
> -Good depth of barrel
> -Long topline
> -Level topline
> -Strong topline
> -Strong chine
> -Nice rump angle
> -Hocks line up with pins
> -Thurls look good
> -Good width between the hocks
> -Nice rear leg set
> -Good width between thurls
> -Nice fore udder attachments
> -Well placed teats
> -Well defined medial


Thanks for the critique! I just received over 3 quarts from her this morning!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

First question... What's the difference between good and bad withers? And why are smooth and sharp both listed as pros?


----------



## margaret

I could explain it better if I wait till I'm not on my phone, so I'll answer that later. Unless Megan wants to.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Extremes are bad? My old girl has really sharp withers but it's too much so to speak. It makes her more narrow and the withers don't blend as smoothly.

You want a nice mix of sharp and smooth.

Someone else could explain better but there's my attempt.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Extremes, yes, are bad. You don't want to much sharpness because that makes the animal more narrow.
An article in Goat Keeper says this about it: (I tried to copy the picture...couldn't, sorry )

"The withers should be well defined and wedge shaped, rising above the shoulder blades. This also adds height and the appearance of angularity to the animal"

Here's some articles about it judging dairy goats.

Also, at: www.thejudgingconnection.com/pdfs/Judging_Dairy_Goats.pdf
sarasota.ifas.ufl.edu/Documents/4-H/Rbooks/4-H%20Dairy%20Goat%20Judging.pdf

Margaret could probably do better since she had dairy goats


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> First question... What's the difference between good and bad withers? And why are smooth and sharp both listed as pros?


Good withers: Are higher then the shoulder blade. They are angled and not flat from shoulder to shoulder. There is no dip.
Bad withers: Too sharp and make the goat narrow. Or: are below the shoulder blade creating a dip there.

Smooth withers: They blend nicely with the neck, shoulder, and topline and are not too prominent.

If withers are not smooth, they detract from the goat, they look way to sharp and ugly. Good, smooth withers are well blended with the rest of the body and 'go with the flow' so to speak 

Hope that helps some!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Okay, thanks!


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Yeah, I have a doe like that, great topline, and then I try to get some pictures. Not so great anymore. Oh, well.:roll:
> 
> Here's Basil:
> 
> Pros:
> Good depth
> Straight profile
> Wide forehead
> Smooth shoulders
> Strong pasterns
> Fairly level topline
> Straight front legs
> Good dairy wedge
> 
> Cons:
> Short, thick neck
> back legs might could be better angled?
> Could have a deeper heart girth (not sure that's the correct terminology  )
> Rump could be longer
> Maybe she could be more uphill, but that's exactly what my doe looks like in pictures...
> 
> Is it okay to ask questions about critiquing on here, too?


Thank you!!!

My question, what is a "dairy wedge"?  I need to do more critique practise. Lol!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The dairy wedge (from the side) is the line from withers to rump, and the line from the elbow along the stomach to the halfway point where it starts to go back upward. You want a good wedge shape. There's also the dairy wedge from above, from the shoulders along the stomach I think. That's want so great an explanation. I'll see if I can find a good picture to demonstrate.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here ya go. It's a screenshot of a mobile version of storey's guide to raising dairy goats, I couldn't find anything else


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## deerbunnyfarm

Ahh, thanks so much! Never knew that!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

How do you judge brisket? Is there a perfect size or do you want it as big as possible?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I think the size is about the same as in the picture just posted above. You don't want it so small that the legs look like they're the beginning of the goat.
At the other extreme, you don't want it so big it's hanging off the goat.

Brisket is needed to provide room for the heart, lungs, etc. If the brisket is too small, then that is all pushed back into the barrel, leaving less room for a healthy heart, food, and kids.

Generally a too big brisket is rare.


----------



## margaret

Yep, I agree with that Megan. There _is_ such a thing as too much brisket, Lacie posted a picture one time to demonstrate that, but it really is pretty rare.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Maybe we should see if she's still got that picture and one of a good brisket....


----------



## margaret

I'll ask her.


----------



## margaret

Oh and let me go find that shoulder picture...


----------



## margaret

OK, I found that picture. And her shoulders don't usually look so bad, but for the purpose of an example I'll use this.







See how her withers don't have that tight, sharp look? They are kind of loose.
I'll use this doe as a good examplehttp://www.ironrodalpines.com/mandalay.shtml see how her shoulders and withers are tight and smoothly blended? That's more the type of withers and shoulders that you want to see..


----------



## Dairy_goat

Margaret, that was a good example of the shoulder, as I am learning. Could you post other pictures/ links with conformation faults and a good example of how it is supposed to look?

What is the most ideal pastern length and picture of bad pasterns/good pasterns?

Thanks!


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Maybe this chart helps some?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

The pictures with '25' on them are the correct angles, etc.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Thanks deer bunny farm, I have looked through those guides a ton!! I am looking for some "real" goat pictures so I can become more familiar with conformation in the show ring and what is ideal overall.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Sorry for blowing up this thread, but would you all mind if I post pictures of my four alpine doelings this afternoon? I need to cut back on the babies and sell at least one alpine doeling. It will be hard but I think I am going to sell one that does not fit into my breeding program as much (I was hoping that you all could help me decide which one to let go of, I just have wayyy to many right now, but wait there is no such thing as too many goats.....  )


----------



## COgoatLover25

Man, this thread has certainly grown since I last visited :lol: good work guys, I'll try to get on tonight and critique a few. 
Dairy_Goat, I see no reason why not!  it'll be fun critiquing youngsters


----------



## margaret

Suzanne, can I use Eb as an example? I’m his breeder so blame me for his long pasterns:lol:


----------



## margaret

Go right ahead Viktoria! I'd love to critique your gorgeous Alpine doelings
And I'll go find you some examples too. 
Oh and if anyone wants to do Dove...I posted pics of her a while ago but no one ever did her. I'll repost them.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Sure, Viktoria! Looking forward to them  Just please make sure you're down at their level when taking the pictures, along with back / front pictures. And a clear view of their feet as well.

Waitin' for those, Lindsay 
P.S. do you spell your name with "e" or "a"? Asking cause I don't want to be spelling it wrong...know how that feels since my name often gets spelled wrong!http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## COgoatLover25

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Sure, Viktoria! Looking forward to them Just please make sure you're down at their level when taking the pictures, along with back / front pictures. And a clear view of their feet as well.
> 
> Waitin' for those, Lindsay
> P.S. do you spell your name with "e" or "a"? Asking cause I don't want to be spelling it wrong...know how that feels since my name often gets spelled wrong!


Oh no, now I feel the pressure lol. It's spelled Lindsey


----------



## margaret

OK Viktoria, some picture examples.
*Rump & Topline*







What you don't want. When I took this picture the goat was acting like her typical bratty self, and hunched herself up as best as she could resulting in a very inaccurate representation of her actual conformation. But I got a good example picture out of it so whatever:lol:
Her topline is not level. And neither is her rump. Very bad rump angle and her topline looks awful. I'll just compare it to another pic of the same goat taken when she was behaving for once in her life(she was actually a perfect angel in the showring:lol she was clipped and better set up. Sometimes pictures do a whole lot better at making sense than my terrible explanations:lol: 







See how her wither are highers than the rest of her topline? It slopes up and her topline is strong and level. Her rump angle looks a whole lot better too. It's kind of crazy how different she looks in the 2 pictures, but they really can make themselves look awful when they want to.
Another good example. Lovely rump angle, level topline.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Hehe, good!  I'll even graciously let you do Dove 

Okay!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

margaret said:


> Suzanne, can I use Eb as an example? I'm his breeder so blame me for his long pasterns:lol:


That's fine with me


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Great post, Margaret!

Here's a couple more examples of toplines:

First is Brittney, a purebred Kiko doeling. See how her hips are higher then her withers? VERY undesirable in most goats. BUT, if your goat is young, it may just be a growth spurt where the hips are growing faster then the withers. This this case, she's growing and has actually leveled out a lot. 








Second is Daisy. She's a Nubian/Saanen. When looking at Nubian toplines, you have to remember they generally have a slight dip in their toplines.








And to brighten your day, here's a random picture of one of my baby Holland Lops  just cause.


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## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> That's fine with me


Thanks


----------



## margaret

Aww, look at the wittle wabbit, it's so cute:lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

oh my goodness! It's adorable!!!


----------



## margaret

Viktoria, is there any specific things you want to see pictures of? Because if you don't give me any guidelines I will literally go through the entire ADGA scorecard and give you picture examples of everything on there:lol: And I'm not kidding. I have tons of pictures, I would completely clog this thread:lol:


----------



## COgoatLover25

margaret said:


> Viktoria, is there any specific things you want to see pictures of? Because if you don't give me any guidelines I will literally go through the entire ADGA scorecard and give you picture examples of everything on there:lol: And I'm not kidding. I have tons of pictures, I would completely clog this thread:lol:


I have an idea...how about making a thread of its own and doing the entire scorecard in order? That would be sorta awesome.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks!  It's so floofy, and fits in one hand. Yup, I can fit all that adorableness in a hand and take it with me! :lol: 

That is a great idea, but I think people would be more apt to go to this kind of thread to learn then a thread without people having a good time.
Folks are drawn to threads where other people are having fun and 'know' each other.


----------



## Dairy_goat

OK finally got pictures of the goats, my mom took the photos, so they are definitely not perfect! lol

#1

She is really squished together.. her chest is pretty restricted and does not have a wide arch in the back.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Doeling #2 (#1's twin-they both have the same build)


----------



## Dairy_goat

#3

A younger doeling


----------



## Dairy_goat

#4 doeling


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Viktoria, is there any specific things you want to see pictures of? Because if you don't give me any guidelines I will literally go through the entire ADGA scorecard and give you picture examples of everything on there:lol: And I'm not kidding. I have tons of pictures, I would completely clog this thread:lol:


 Ummmmm, go ahead and clog this thread (I feel like I already have!)!!!!! I would love to learn anything about conformation!!!


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## Cedar Point Kikos

So, I'd sell #1.

#4 and #3 are my favorites. #2 is somewhere in there as well.


Okay, I know that was not what you were looking for so here goes 

#1:
She's, like you said, squished. Poor topline, even for a young kid. Lacks length, steep rump, lacks width in hind legs. Bit posty legged as well. Pasterns aren't amazing.
Like about her? Umm, nice neck, good brisket. 

Personally, I don't like her 

#2:
An improvement over #1. More level topline, more length. Good brisket. Smooth girl, nice rump.
Front legs look a bit weak at the knee. Pasterns are low. Lacks width in rear.

#3:
She's cute  look at her widdle tail going!
Okay: Business.
Even now she looks like she will be a angular, refined girl. Uphill as well. Nice topline, nice legs. Pasterns are better then #1 and #2. Really nice rump. I like her withers and neck. Better width in back then above doelings.
No brisket. Could have a bit more width in chest.
I think she'll turn out nice.

#4:
She's probably my favorite type wise (#3 is definitely cuter!)
Lots of length, nice topline, good neck, rump, legs, nice bone, nice rear legs. Nice even width. Love the width in her chest! Nice pasterns.
Could have a bit more brisket and rump could be a bit more level. Could be more uphill. 
I really like her 

But, these are young kids and their conformation will change. If you need help deciding who to keep, pictures of their parents' and dams' udders will help


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I like #3 best. She's overall better-looking and more dairy. They're all really cute, though! 

Ok, I have another question. Sometimes, y'all will list as a pro, "good bones." How in the world can you look at a goat and tell it has good bones? I've read about what good ribs feel like, etc, but from pictures??


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Okay, so list:
> 
> Suzanne_Taylor has been doing a great job critiquing the goats that nobody else has done :lol: Congrats and thank you!
> 
> Righty-o, here ya are:
> 
> Iris AKA Ellie - Goatzrule, post 39, page 4. Dairygoat did her, but asked that someone would go over Ellie again.
> 
> Pinky - Suzanne_Taylor, post 48, page 5. Bree did her, but again asked for someone to go over her again.
> 
> Barli - deerbunnyfarm, post 54, page 6. Suzanne did her, but she can be done again
> 
> Aremis - goatygirl, post 57, page 6. I did her, but her udder could be done better
> 
> Dove - Margaret, post 66, page 7. Totally not done!
> 
> Then Suzanne's adorable Nigi kid on this page  Very nice, Suzanne!
> 
> Anyway, if you read through the thread and see a goat you would like to do but that has been "done", feel free to do them again! It can't hurt anything and will only improve the thread  Just remember to mention who you are doing so other folks know as well  (Margaret, you forget to do this!!!)http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


Here's all the goats left to critique minus (I think) Pinky and maybe Artemis.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Artemis's udder:

Pros:
Nice shape
Well placed teats
Well angled teats (I think they're the tiniest bit pointing outward, though)
Fairy large for a FF, but I haven't seen a whole lot of ND FF udders
Rear attachments are fairly good

Cons:
Uneven, but I think that has to do with pregnancy hormones and she'll even out
Medial could be more defined
Front attachment isn't great
Rear attachments could see some improvement


----------



## margaret

First off, gonna flip those pics bc it's driving me crazy trying to look at them sideways:lol:
#1














#2














#3














#4


----------



## Goatzrule

KaOs Farm FB Autumn 
Shes only two days old and they arent the best set up but judge?


----------



## margaret

If I remember correctly, 1 & 2 are Gypsy's, #3 is Plumeria's and #4 is Symphonie's? 
If you are wondering who to keep, Gypsy is definitely my favorite. I haven't seen udder pics from Plumeria or Symphonie, so I'm not quite sure which of them I like better. Probably Plumeria. 

I'm gonna say 2 & 3 are my favorites. I do think #2 could have better pasterns, and she needs more width in the back but I really appreciate how level she is over the topline. #3 is nice, I think she is my favorite(is she a Willie kid?) She's gonna be a nice doe when she grows up.

I don't like #4 as much, I think it's mostly because she toes out in front and I have a strong dislike for goats that toe out. I can't stand it lol. Nice width in the chest, but again that toe out throws me off.

I would keep 2 & 3, if it were my choice. Especially since Gypsy is such a gorgeous doe.

Bring 'em back when they are a bit older


----------



## margaret

Nice looking little girls Kelsie
Toplines are very level for 2 day old kids


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Kelsie, that kid is full of adorable cuteness and will probably kill you within a week with cuteitis. Therefore, for your safety you must send her to me ASAP 

:lol:

Anyway, it seems, Viktoria, that the general consensus it that #3 is a definite keeper!

And totally unrelated, but would you guys mind hopping over here and telling me what you think? I'm worried Daisy isn't bred http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Goatzrule

^^ I am really impressed with these kids, you should see the buckling....breaks my heart to sell him but luckily he's going to be a breeding buck
P.s. that's just one doe I need to get better pictures of the other doelings.

^And she is part of a set of quints...im dieing over here!!! Her sister is smaller.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aw, that's too bad  Would love to see pictures of them


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Ok, I have another question. Sometimes, y'all will list as a pro, "good bones." How in the world can you look at a goat and tell it has good bones? I've read about what good ribs feel like, etc, but from pictures??


Okay, so I'll give this a shot:

Dairy bone is more 'square', not oval or round. It is slender, but not to the point of breaking. You don't want thick, heavy bone is dairy goats.

Meat bone is thick, heavy and very solid. Look at well known Boer breeders on here. (Crossroads Boers, HoosierShadow, Tenacross, etc)

Mostly you can tell that by looking at their legs. Are their legs slender, refined looking? Or are they heavy and meaty?

Sometimes you can just 'tell' good ribs. They are flat sided, not round. And sometimes you can see that in pictures, especially if the goat is shaved.

Hope that makes some sense! 

*Margaret*, do you have any pictures to show these things? I think it would help a lot!

http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Dairy_goat

Thanks CPK and Margaret, I will sell one if not both of Gypsy's babies. I would rather sell them sooner than later, bc I don't have room for all the kids!!


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> First off, gonna flip those pics bc it's driving me crazy trying to look at them sideways:lol:
> #1
> View attachment 106265
> 
> View attachment 106266
> 
> #2
> View attachment 106267
> 
> View attachment 106268
> 
> #3
> View attachment 106269
> 
> View attachment 106270
> 
> #4
> View attachment 106271
> 
> View attachment 106272


 Haha did your sideway picture OCD kick in again?? :::: But, thanks for flipping them over again for me, I still don't know why my computer was doing that!


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> Haha did your sideway picture OCD kick in again?? :::: But, thanks for flipping them over again for me, I still don't know why my computer was doing that!


Yep:lol: Drives me insane


----------



## Goatzrule

Can someone please do my doeling. I also have another one that I am trying to decide between.


----------



## margaret

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Okay, so I'll give this a shot:
> 
> Dairy bone is more 'square', not oval or round. It is slender, but not to the point of breaking. You don't want thick, heavy bone is dairy goats.
> 
> Meat bone is thick, heavy and very solid. Look at well known Boer breeders on here. (Crossroads Boers, HoosierShadow, Tenacross, etc)
> 
> Mostly you can tell that by looking at their legs. Are their legs slender, refined looking? Or are they heavy and meaty?
> 
> Sometimes you can just 'tell' good ribs. They are flat sided, not round. And sometimes you can see that in pictures, especially if the goat is shaved.
> 
> Hope that makes some sense!
> 
> *Margaret*, do you have any pictures to show these things? I think it would help a lot!
> 
> http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


Ummm lol, IDK. I might.


----------



## Goatzrule

This is the buckling KaOs Farm FB Ember
Can someone please judge them? Again not great pictures he was being difficult


----------



## Goatzrule

I really like all of the kids and im really proud of them but I may be being a little biased


----------



## nicolemackenzie

#1
I think she'd look longer if she had her head and neck in a better position.

I like her width in the front better than her sister #2

Rump isn't as nice as her sisters.

I like her coloring because it reminds me of my old girl  although that doesn't really count for anything.

She doesn't toe out as bad as #1

I agree she lacks a nice arch in the estchuchen.

Is she actually shorter bodied than her sister or is it the photo?

#2
Level, sharp, and dairy looking.
Feet nice and square underneath her.

She also looks narrow in the estchuchen to me and toes out quite a bit.

She looks more narrow in general.

She looks longer than her sister. But I feel like that may be a photo illusion.

#3
Very level especially in the rump.

Wide looking but short.

I don't like her thick neck.

I like her legs except she toes out in the front.

#4
Not quite as level as #3 but nice and much more dairy looking.

She looks like she has better width in the estchuchen than the other three.

From the side she has very nice smooth legs with good angulation.

Front view she looks wonky?

I prefer #4 over #3 for the improved dairy character and width in the estchuchen compared to everyone.

I like #1 and #2. You have a better view in person. Who is longer? Who tracks more correctly on the move? Which one has wider rib spacing?

I think I'd really have to see them moving naturally and feel them to pick.

I think I would sell #3 because of her thick neck. Although I love her rump! It would be interesting to see her in a couple of weeks. I think she has potential.

If she lengthens out a bit I'd probably replace #1or #2 with her.

Also are they improvements in body type to their dams? Or do you think you took a step backwards with any of them? If I felt I lost quality I'd probably count that against the kid.

Picking is so hard!

I think you'll end up with three nice does and someone else will get a nice doe as well!


----------



## Dairy_goat

Question: why are non-tight toes bad? Doesn't spread hooves keep bacteria from staying in the crevice in between both toes and keeps air flowing through it?

I hope this question makes sense!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Hmmm, I think its probably for the same reason as wanting short and and strong pasterns. They hold up longer after carrying kids and don't go all over the place and start having ankle problems. I don't know for certain, though.


----------



## GoatMama123

Got a new herd sire over the weekend if anybody wants to critique him... I've got a doe I forgot to put on her a while back as well


----------



## GoatMama123

Here they are


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> Ummmmm, go ahead and clog this thread (I feel like I already have!)!!!!! I would love to learn anything about conformation!!!


OK, well I'll just post a few for now.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The buck...

Pros 
First off, he's a buckskin  I used to have a buck that looked a like him, he was a really sweet buck
Blue eyes
He's pretty dairy and good-looking overall
Sharp withers
Withers bland smoothly into shoulders
Smooth shoulders
Long neck
Long topline
Fairly level topline
No under bite or over bite
Strong, straight front legs
Short pasterns
Good brisket
Deep heart girth

Cons:
Weak chine/roached back
Steep rump
Short rump
Thick neck
Back legs could be better angled, but I think if his legs were placed a little farther back that would help his topline and legs a lot
Could be deeper around the middle of his stomach. That may come with age though. How old is he?
Toes turn out
I think his pasterns might be a little stronger... I'm not quite sure


----------



## GoatMama123

Thank you for the feedback. 
In this photo he was a little under a year and a half.

He is also polled.

The gal is prettier than in the picture... she was shaven... its not a good look for her


----------



## GoatMama123

What is "chine/roached back"


----------



## nicolemackenzie

The chine is right behind the whithers.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

GoatMama123 said:


> What is "chine/roached back"


The chine is a section of the topline starting just behind the wither and continuing until about halfway across. He has a dip in his, thus a weak chine.

A roached back is when, just after the cine, the topline goes upward and comes back down into a steep rump. It usually goes together with a weak chine.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Overall a nice looking buck!

Pros-
Well put together in the shoulder area blending nicely
Strong/smooth legs

Cons-
Steep rump
Long pasterns

He kinda looks like he's pulling and bracing a little. His topline might level out when more relaxed/on the move.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

The doe 
Pros
Deep chest
Nice smooth/straight front legs
Strong pasterns
Strong bone structure

Cons
Low rear udder
Needs smoother fore udder
Udder attachments.
Overall I'd like to see the udder up higher
Posty
Roached back


----------



## GoatMama123

He is my first purchase after following the critiquing threads. The picture was before he bred the previous owners gals later summer/early fall. 
He is a hairy sticky mess right now, I have yet to give him his manscaping... He has a long beard right now... do people tend to clip those off or had he just not grown one yet in this picture? I think it makes them look distinguished lol


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He looks fairly young and not in rut, so I'd say he hadn't grown one yet. I think beards usually come with kidding and rut. Yeah, I think so too, my buck wouldn't look half so great without his beard


----------



## Bree_6293

Can some one critique this little girl? Almost 2 weeks old in the photo.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Gorgeous girl! Looks like she'll turn out to be a feminine, long, balanced doe with a good neck and legs. Beautiful head.

Looks a bit weak in the chine and could have more brisket. Rump is a bit short and steep.

What is she?


----------



## gabby5946

This first picture is when she was about 3 months pregnant and about 10 months old (we didn't know at the time, because she was bred when we got her) but you are welcome to critique .






And these are her today, she is due tomorrow so she's pretty large. But again you are welcome to critique on anything you can ( she's a first freshener) .


----------



## margaret

^^I claim this one


----------



## gabby5946

Forgot to put that she's recorded grade! Nubian/Oberhasli


----------



## Bree_6293

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Gorgeous girl! Looks like she'll turn out to be a feminine, long, balanced doe with a good neck and legs. Beautiful head.
> 
> Looks a bit weak in the chine and could have more brisket. Rump is a bit short and steep.
> 
> What is she?


She is an Australian miniature goat. I am trying to slowly get my line to be more dairy like than the normal Australian minis. I have only been breeding for 2 years  hopefully I will eventually get them to be quite dairy like. Most Australian minis are built more like Pygmy goats. Short legs, round barrel.short stocky and chunky. I want short and feminine and dairy


----------



## margaret

Cons:
~front legs are too far forward
~Looks to toe out a bit in the rear
~longer neck
~Leaner neck
~More level rump
~more brisket
~legs could be a bit stronger at the knee
~Would like her to be a bit straighter in the front legs

Pros:
~clean well sculpted nostrils
~strong, wide, clean jaw
~clean throat latch
~Smooth throat latch
~Smoothly blended from neck into withers
~Smoothly blended from neck into shoulders
~Smoothly blended from neck into brisket
~Smoothly blended shoulders
~Smoothly blended from the front end assembly into the barrel
~Good depth for a kid that age
~Good body capacity
~Uphill
~Upstanding
~Clean withers
~Smooth withers
~Sharp withers
~fairly level topline
~Strong chine
~Strong topline
~Nice rear legs
~Strong rear legs
~Hocks line up nicely with pins
~good angulation to the rear legs
~strong rear pasterns
~Good width between hocks

I've gotta go now, I might do her udder later, or maybe someone else wants to? She's a nice looking girl, very pretty:thumbup:


----------



## gabby5946

Thankyou for the critiques. But she's not pregnant anymore!!! Just kidded about 6hrs ago


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Oh my goodness! They're adorable!  Bucks, does or both?


----------



## gabby5946

Both bucks


----------



## margaret

Gorgeous kids! Sorry they were both bucks though.


----------



## gabby5946

What do you guys think about this kid. Recorded Grade Nubian, Lamancha doe.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

She's adorable with her little frosted nose band 

Nice clean lines, long body, level topline, good legs, good shoulder and hindquarter.
Looks a bit posty, rump is a bit steep.

Nice girl, should mature into a nice looking doe!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Beat that, Margaret 

Short and sweet! :lol:


----------



## gabby5946

Thank you


----------



## nicolemackenzie

I like her!

I agree nice clean lines. 
Good general appearance.
Strong pasterns
Nice length of body
Looks wide
Rump is long

Cons
Hips higher than withers but could just be a growth stage
A bit posty


----------



## gabby5946

Awesome Thankyou


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do her  

Pros
Long topline
Level topline
Smooth withers
Smooth shoulders
Good fore legs
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns

Cons
Steep rump
Posts back legs
Lacks brisket
Short, thick neck
Lacks depth, but she's young
Could have sharper withers


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Song


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Daisy, my old girl  7-8 year old Nubian/Saanen. Pregnant (or at least she's supposed to be) Probably due in about a month or so.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Song


 She is sooo cute! It is hard to figure out how good her conformation is as she looks super small. But, I am in love with her color and markings on her face!!:lovey::lovey:


----------



## Dairy_goat

I will try to do Daisy, this thread seems sort of dead for the..ummm....past day and a half. lol 

Daisy-it is hard to really see her conformation because of that nice winter fuzz! Love her!-what breed was she bred to?

Pros: nice chest
the blending of the shoulder looks nice

it looks like she has good capacity

clean neck

sturdy upright pasterns

I know I am missing a lot, can someone help me out?






Cons:
(not conformation wise, but isn't she a bit over conditioned?)

front legs could be straighter

more feminine neck

longer back

taller cannon bones (?)

rear legs might be a bit post-y?


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> OK, well I'll just post a few for now.


 Margaret, where are the conformation posts/pictures that you promised? ::


----------



## margaret

Sorry Viktoria, haven't gotten around to posting those yet! I'll try to do it soon


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Song;

Pros; cute as a button
Nice rear leg angulation
Legs set nicely under body
Level topline 

Cons
Narrow in the chest
Short neck
Short rump
Steep rump
Weak muzzle

Still just a baby and covered in fuzz. So with growth and a shave she may look much nicer in a few months.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Daisy

Pros
Powerful 
Level rump 
Long
Deep
Straight/strong front legs
Looks wide
Strong pasterns - aging well 

Cons
Posty
Could be cleaner in the shoulders.
Longer leaner neck
Stronger chine


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks you two! 

She might be a bit there...always does that in winter on just hay/minerals 
Daisy is bred to my 100% New Zealand Kiko buck...was due April 22, but I don't think she'll kid that soon.


----------



## TeyluFarm

My doe didn't want to pose tonight, so my pictures aren't great. But hopefully they will work? I'm going to attempt to shave her soon so I will post pictures of her again after (as long as I didn't do a terrible job shaving her lol)


----------



## Carleyjsouza

2 week old Lamancha buck. Hank


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Hank ~

Pros
Good overall appearance and dairy character
Very uphill
Level topline
Strong topline
Long topline
Smooth withers
Long neck
Slender neck
Well angled rear legs
Strong pasterns
Well blended from neck to withers 
Well blended from withers to topline
Straight face profile
Good bite (no under bite or over bite)

Cons
Could be deeper
Could have more brisket
Shoulders could be smoother
Withers could be sharper
Short rump (I'm not quite sure, though)
Could have straighter front legs

I think my critiquing skills are getting better


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Nice, Suzanne! I think so too


----------



## margaret

You have gotten a lot better!
Lots of practice is really the only way to do that.
Sorry I haven't done a lot of critiquing lately but I have little more time now, so maybe I'll start back up.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Thanks, y'all!


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Who wants to critique my little girl???

The goat, not the three year old.  Kinda proud of my daughter though, she did her best!!


----------



## deerbunnyfarm




----------



## goatygirl

Dang I was going to judge your daughter for a minute there...


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Oh, I already know my daughter has no weaknesses!!


----------



## Bree_6293

Can some one critique this girl? She is an Australian miniature goat, 4 weeks old. I will try and get one where she isn't crouched in her back legs so much! Does this every time she has a bottle!!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Both very cute, deerbunnyfarm


----------



## Bree_6293

Or this one? Mini Nubian Buck kid - 10 days first photo and 18 days second photo. He is generation 2 mini Nubian


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The mini nubi -

Pros -
Level topline
Long neck
Slender neck
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Good face profile
Smooth withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Clean muzzle

Cons -
Front legs could be straighter
Steep rump
Withers could be sharper
Posty
Could have more brisket
Shoulders could be smoother (?)


----------



## GoatMama123

Princess Peach. 
3 months old.


----------



## Bree_6293

Can I please do princess peach? Or try to?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Fly at 'er! Enjoy it too


----------



## GoatMama123

I tried to do it myself, but all I got was steep rump. 

She is prettier than this... she's just in a weird in between coat stage, and could prob use a little BOSS, vit E, and copper

When looking at all the area... there is a diagram that shows 5/25/45 we are seeing 25 as ideal correct?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Yes I think the middle one (in this case 25) is what you want.


----------



## Bree_6293

Ok princess peach:
Cons:
Steep rump
Slightly down hill
Dip in neck to wither? Might be collar throwing it off...
But thick through throat area?

Pros:
Nice wedge 
Good brisket
Nice pretty head
Good ear placement
Nice topline - could be better but not bad
Nice shoulder and front leg.

I'm not sure about the back legs?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Aellie, purebred unregistered ND doeling. 9-10 weeks old. Sorry her feet aren't totally in


----------



## Bree_6293

Aellie:
Cons:
Lacking depth in barrel - age??
A little posty in the back legs
Short neck
Odd blending from neck to body

Pros:
Good brisket
Good deep chest
Lovely defined head
Feminine face
Straight strong topline
Nice front legs
Good shoulder

Bit hard as she is so fluffy


----------



## Bree_6293

Any others? Or am I doing a decent job? Not as in detail as others yet..


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks, Bree!
Yes, she's pretty fluffy  

Wonder where everyone else is...


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here's Prinscess Peach -

Pros - 
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Straight profile
Clean muzzle
Smooth withers 
Long neck
Smooth shoulders

Cons - 
Steep rump
Reverse sloping topline (it'll probably get better with age)
Posts rear legs
Lacks brisket
Thick neck
Withers could be sharper


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pleasant*Wood Jenny. The pictures were taken last year when she was a second freshener.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Oooh, I'm doing her!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Pros:
-Nice strong face
-Strong jaw
-Deep muzzle, lots of room there
-Deep jaw
-Nice ear set
-I like her face, it's calm and content
-Good dairy character in face
-Fairly good brisket, could be a tad better
-Sharp withers
-Good chest floor
-Good shoulder assembly
-Front legs placed squarely below shoulder
-Good shoulder to barrel blending
-Good depth in heart girth
-Pretty tight elbows
-Good body length
-Strong topline
-Level topline
-Strong chine
-Good depth in barrel
-Good hindquarter assembly
-Nice rump length
-Hocks and pins line up
-Long bone pattern
-Nice refined bone
-Uphill
-Good dairy character
-Looks to have good width between front legs
-Nice long cannon bones
-Strong front legs
-Strong rear legs
-Good rear pasterns
-Nice rear arch to udder
-Good medial
-Good capacity - How much is she giving?
-Okay fore attachments, could be smoother
-Good rear attachments
-Nice round side look 
-Held nice and high up


Cons:
-Neck could be more refined
-Neck could be longer
-Neck is thick
-Neck to withers could be blended more smoothly
-Neck to brisket could blend more smoothly
-Neck to shoulders could blend more smoothly
-Rump is steep
-Front pasterns a tad long
-Looks to maybe toe out a bit fore and rear?
-Udder is uneven
-Teats are too far out to the sides
-Teats are a bit small
-Uneven udder floor


Looks like she could use some groceries and copper 

I feel like I'm missing something :chin:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow, I love your pros to cons ratio  

I hadn't noticed she looked skinny, thanks for pointing that out. I'll find a picture of her more recently to see if you think she's looking better.

I seem to be fighting a losing battle with copper deficiency. I copper bolus them twice as often and double the dose as recommended and they just don't seem to absorb it.... and then they kid and have pitch black kids. :-|


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

She was giving 1/2 gallon a day when those pictures were taken. That's one thing that could really improve. Her daughter gave almost the same amount at peak as a first freshener. My ND doe gave the same amount peaking as a FF as Jenny did as a FF (one quart). Here are some more recent pictures of Jenny.


----------



## Bree_6293

Any one want to do this little boy? 1 and a bit weeks in the photos now just over 2 weeks. 
Australian miniature Buck kid


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

It's probably not very accurate because of his age and the fluff, but here ya go.

Pros- 
Deep brisket
Well angled rear legs
Short pasterns 
Strong pasterns
Long neck
Good face profile
Clean jaw
Tight toes
Good amount of space between front legs
Smooth withers
Well blended from neck to brisket

Cons -
Toes out, front and back
Weak chine
Lack depth
Thick neck
Topline could be stronger


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pecan


----------



## Bree_6293

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> It's probably not very accurate because of his age and the fluff, but here ya go.
> 
> Pros-
> Deep brisket
> Well angled rear legs
> Short pasterns
> Strong pasterns
> Long neck
> Good face profile
> Clean jaw
> Tight toes
> Good amount of space between front legs
> Smooth withers
> Well blended from neck to brisket
> 
> Cons -
> Toes out, front and back
> Weak chine
> Lack depth
> Thick neck
> Topline could be stronger


Thank you. I am hoping to hold on to him for a little to see how he matures as a future Buck. We had until 3 months and if I am still unsure I will wether him and he will be a pet. I really like his parentage and his width and rump for a mini as I have a few does with quite steep rumps.


----------



## Tazzyboy5

Was wondering if someone could critique this 8 weeks doe kid. Sorry the picture is upside down I don't know why it is.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Flipped it


----------



## Bree_6293

8 week old kid:
Pros:
Good brisket 
Good front legs
Good wither
Good length in cannon?
Good angle in back legs
Good length ofneck
Feminine neck
Up hill build 

Cons:
Not well blended neck to whither
Dip in back 
Lacks depth
Slightly steep rump
Weak topline
Shallow chest
Lacks dairy wedge
Weak chine


----------



## GoatMama123

When ideally is the best time to critique a doe or buck? Like when will the "might improve as they mature" no longer be a factor? 

I will throw out some on Pecan... this would be my first time ever so don't take any of it too seriously...I am probably wrong. 

PROS
Coloring is beautiful 
Nice top line
Strong back legs
Nice rump
Built uphill?
Nice depth

CONS
Short neck
Semi thick neck (maybe just furry)
Something about the muzzle seems slightly off...maybe too short or thick
Ears are more airplane


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Thanks!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The 8 week doeling -

Pros - 
Good brisket
Nice depth in heart girth
Long neck
Slender neck
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Tight toes
Long topline
Well angled back legs
I can't quite see her wither, but they look to be okay
Looks like she has a good width between front legs

Cos - 
Toes out in back legs
Weak topline
Neck could blend more smoothly into brisket
Lacks depth in barrel
Off balance - she is wide up front and not farther back and the place her back legs attach to her belly to the place her rump ends at the topline seems pinched


----------



## margaret

OK, someone tell me who hasn't been done. I'm pretty busy getting goats clipped for an upcoming show, but I'll try to do a couple


----------



## GoatMama123

This little stinker may be too small and the angle is odd but I thought I'd throw her up here since we are excited about her. 

She's a second gen mini nubian. Natasha.


----------



## TeyluFarm

I think my Nala got lost in the thread a few pages back


----------



## margaret

I'll do her for you when I get a chance


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Bree's kid at the top of the page two pages ago hasn't been done.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I checked, it's actually three pages back on page 22.


----------



## margaret

Bree's doeling. I'm judging her as a dairy goat, I think you said she was an Australian Mini?
Cons:
~Short rump
~Steep rump
~Toes out in front
~Needs leaner neck
~Hocks too far back
~hocks don't line up with pins

Pros:
~Upstanding
~Nice withers
~Smooth withers
~Sharp withers
~good brisket
~OK blending throughout
~Strong enough pasterns
~fairly level topline

I know that was really short, but I'm going to stop there because it's kind of hard when she's so young(and I'm _sorta_ outta practice) and it's obvious these pictures don't do her justice. Bring her back when she's a bit older, and maybe you can get her to set up right. Young kids often crouch down exactly like that when you try to set them up, they can be so hard to get pictures of!


----------



## margaret

If someone wants to do Gypsy, I would appreciate it.







I managed to get a decent picture of her, which is actually a great accomplishment...seeing as this is her normal picture pose:lol:


----------



## GoatMama123

If people could stop posting their GPs I the background.... I have been itching to get one! Lol


----------



## GoatMama123

I am just starting with this so I will make a short list for her,bit someone else please also do her.

Pros:
Her face looks lovely
Very feminine 
Nice neck depth (nice and slender)
Strong straight front legs
Nice rump
Nicely blended through the back

Cons
Back legs could be stronger
Neck seems a tad short
Her body seems a bit fuller than her face/neck and legs ( I don't even know if it matters) 
The part above her lower legs (I will call it her butt because I am new) seems to stick out


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ill do Gypsy too, as soon as the pictures load  I have a kid, Triss, whenever I try to take pictures of her it looks like I'm killing her. :lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Gypsy -

Pros - 
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Smooth withers
Wither blend smoothly into topline
Slender neck
Long neck
Deep muzzle
Well blended from neck to brisket
Strong front legs
Good dairy look
Well blended throughout
Strong front legs 
Well blended from neck to shoulders
Good dairy wedge 

Cons - 
Lacks brisket
Lacks depth
Cannons could be straighter
Weak pasterns
Shoulder could be smoother
Wither could be sharper
Rump maybe too flat?


----------



## margaret

GoatMama123 said:


> If people could stop posting their GPs I the background.... I have been itching to get one! Lol


Sorry lol. They are awesome guard dogs, I would definitely recommend one


----------



## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Ill do Gypsy too, as soon as the pictures load  I have a kid, Triss, whenever I try to take pictures of her it looks like I'm killing her. :lol:


Yep, that would be pretty much every one of mine, minus a select few:lol:


----------



## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do my doe? I had her critiqued a year ago, but would love to see her re-evaluated. She is a 3 year old third freshener. Also, please ignore my mismatching clothes, I just put on whatever is easiest when I do chores :lol:, lol!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here she is -

Pros - 
Good dairy character
Good dairy wedge
Overall good appearance
Wide rump
Good amount of space between rear legs
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topline
Long neck
Slender neck
Smooth withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Well blended from neck to brisket
Sharp withers
Smooth withers
Strong front legs
Doesn't toe out
Nice depth

Cons -
Ewe necked
Lack brisket
Long pasterns
Curved rump
Rear legs could be better angled
Lacks depth in heart girth
Roman nose

Maybe I'll get around to her udder later. I'm not th at good at udders..


----------



## margaret

I'll do her too, when I get a chance. She's really pretty


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Okay, I'm going to buckle down and do her udder 

Pros - 
Good overall appearance
Nice sized teats
Good shape 
Good size
Nice round udders
Okay front attachment - could see some improvement, but not too bad
Good udder arch
Teats not too far forward or backward

Cons - 
Teats too far apart
Teats slightly bulbous
Weak rear attachments
Udders could be less decided
Slightly uneven udders
Could be held higher up


----------



## GoatMama123

I'm glad to see I am not the only one sporting high muck boots with shorts! Even though if I am honest they are more often sported with a bath robe or pajama pants


----------



## margaret

well, i had a critique typed out, and the computer froze up and deleted it


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Was that an...excuse...Margaret?!  :lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

:slapfloor:


----------



## margaret

Well...maybe kind sorta...:ROFL:


----------



## margaret

I did have one typed out though, it was a very nice one too:lol: Very long. And then, just as I was about to copy it so I wouldn't lose it...the dumb thing froze up! So it was all the computer's fault


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Ah, yes :lol: Always the computer 

Too bad you lost it though...always happens with the best, well written posts!http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## margaret

It does!
I'll write another one though Someday:lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Oh dear :roll: and just when I thought we were getting somewhere!  :lol:

Here's Oreo, my other ND  VERY fluffy as well. She has fish tail, but I'm hesitant to give her copper because she's not very heavy, same with Aellie...any ideas?http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## TeyluFarm

I know I posted a few pages back (Nala got lost in the thread) but I wanted to repost since I managed to get a couple better photos of her.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

It might help to get better photos of you were more down on her level and directly facing her also


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Oh dear :roll: and just when I thought we were getting somewhere!  :lol:
> 
> Here's Oreo, my other ND  VERY fluffy as well. She has fish tail, but I'm hesitant to give her copper because she's not very heavy, same with Aellie...any ideas?http://www.thegoatspot.net//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


What do you mean by not very heavy?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Last time I weighed her she was only 16lbs at around 9 weeks old. I'm going to weigh her again soon. Both have definitely put on weight.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

If you dosed her for her weight I think it'd be fine. I just gave my three month old NDs copper bolus, they each got half the adult full sized goat dose.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do Oreo. But gosh is that goat fluffy 

Pros - 
Long topline
Level topline
Strong front legs
Smooth withers

Boy, that fluff...... hmmmm......

Sweet little face 
Broad forehead

Cons - 
Maybe posty?? Maybe just fluffy.... 
Lack brisket
Lack depth 
Steep rump

That's sorta pitiful :lol:

Thick neck..??


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Love the repetition of fluff :lol: She's finally come around and now lets us come up to her and pet her


----------



## margaret

I would give them 1 gram of copper. They need it, and you don't want to let them get deficient. Don't worry too much about OD, because it works so slow, it's hard to overdose them


----------



## COgoatLover25

I agree with Margaret, I don't think the copper bolus is too potent. I once doubled the recommended dose for a doe I have, never affected her except I finally seen results in her coat.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Okay, will give them both some


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Anybody wanna do Pecan?


----------



## singinggoatgirl

My first freshener, Patches, 4 years old. Sorry about the muck on her tail. It's been too cold to wash her after birth. Also, sorry about the bad pictures. She and I don't know how to set her up...


----------



## singinggoatgirl

Those pictures were upright on my computer!!! Now they are sideways!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Peanut:

Pros:
-Broad muzzle
-Deep jaw
-Strong jaw
-Broad forehead
-Nice strong face
-Nice masculine neck
-Dairy neck, without being too feminine
-Nice withers
-Good shoulder assembly
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder
-Shoulder blends nicely into barrel
-Strong topline
-Level topline
-Strong chine
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in barrel
-Strong front legs
-Strong fore pasterns
-Nice hindquarter assembly
-Hocks and pins line up
-Nice upright rear pasterns
-Nice bone in rear legs


Cons:
-Ears could be placed a bit more forward
-Short neck
-Lacks brisket
-Short bodied
-Short rump
-Steep rump
-Bone too big in front legs, could be a bit more refined
-Hindquarter lacks power, well assembled, but lacks 'omph'
-Posty hind legs


Nigerian Dwarf, right? His main faults are his neck and his short, steep hindquarter. Overall he's a pretty nice boy


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Passing time :lol:

Viktoria's Alpine doe:

Pros:
-Long muzzle
-Strong muzzle
-Long jaw
-Deep jaw
-Nice ear placement
-Clean throat latch
-Long neck
-Clean, refined neck
-Dairy, feminine neck
-Sharp withers
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder
-Neck blends nicely into withers
-Neck blends nicely into brisket
-Good shoulder assembly
-Good chest floor
-Tight elbows
-Nice long bone pattern
-Strong front legs
-Good fore pasterns
-Long topline
-Strong topline
-Good body capacity
-Okay body depth
-Good body length
-Good breed character
-Nice thigh
-Refined appearance
-Nice dairy wedge
-Nice rump length
-Good hindquarter assembly
-Good width in hip bones
-Good width between hocks
-Smooth, well blended overall
-Good dairy character


Cons:
-Lacks brisket
-Front legs positioned a tad too far forward
-Knees are not straight with the rest of her leg
-Could have a bit more depth in heart girth
-Rump has an odd shape to it, it arches behind the hip bones
-Rear pasterns a bit too long
-Hocks set out behind pin bones
-Lacks spring of ribs
-Lacks width in shoulders
-Looks like she might be narrow in the chest


Udder:
-Good fore attachments
-Teats are pointing down, not forward
-Lovely rear arch
-Good rear attachments
-Good capacity
-Nice sized teats
-Good medial

Uneven udder floor
Uneven halves

I'm not too good at udders :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I would do Gypsy, but I'm all critiqued out now! :lol:


----------



## Dairy_goat

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Passing time :lol:
> 
> Viktoria's Alpine doe:
> 
> Pros:
> -Long muzzle
> -Strong muzzle
> -Long jaw
> -Deep jaw
> -Nice ear placement
> -Clean throat latch
> -Long neck
> -Clean, refined neck
> -Dairy, feminine neck
> -Sharp withers
> -Neck blends nicely into shoulder
> -Neck blends nicely into withers
> -Neck blends nicely into brisket
> -Good shoulder assembly
> -Good chest floor
> -Tight elbows
> -Nice long bone pattern
> -Strong front legs
> -Good fore pasterns
> -Long topline
> -Strong topline
> -Good body capacity
> -Okay body depth
> -Good body length
> -Good breed character
> -Nice thigh
> -Refined appearance
> -Nice dairy wedge
> -Nice rump length
> -Good hindquarter assembly
> -Good width in hip bones
> -Good width between hocks
> -Smooth, well blended overall
> -Good dairy character
> 
> Cons:
> -Lacks brisket
> -Front legs positioned a tad too far forward
> -Knees are not straight with the rest of her leg
> -Could have a bit more depth in heart girth
> -Rump has an odd shape to it, it arches behind the hip bones
> -Rear pasterns a bit too long
> -Hocks set out behind pin bones
> -Lacks spring of ribs
> -Lacks width in shoulders
> -Looks like she might be narrow in the chest
> 
> Udder:
> -Good fore attachments
> -Teats are pointing down, not forward
> -Lovely rear arch
> -Good rear attachments
> -Good capacity
> -Nice sized teats
> -Good medial
> 
> Uneven udder floor
> Uneven halves
> 
> I'm not too good at udders :lol:


Thanks! I do believe that an appraiser mentioned that her dorsal something (?)behind her hip on the backbone was lumpy, just like you mentioned as well. I learned a lot today when I got my does appraised!! She did score a 87! (VV+V I believe)


----------



## Dairy_goat

Any goats that have not been critiqued yet? I would love to do some!


----------



## singinggoatgirl

My girl, Patches hasn't been done. I haven't seen one for Dove yet either.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pecan needs doing


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Another question - what things are desirable in the chest floor?


----------



## margaret

Well...since Megan did Viktoria's doe, that means I don't have to...right?
Sorry I haven't been keeping up with this thread! Pretty busy right now as I have a show in 2 weeks.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Pecan-

Pros-upright pasterns
nice hock angle
clean belly 
clean legs
tight toes
 looks like he has a nice width to his chest
nice slope to shoulders
no direct front or back photos so it is hard to see his rear arch and how clean he is from those views, but he is a nice buck! 




cons-steep rump
withers could be blended more smoothly
could have a longer neck
if he is a nigerian-less nubian (pendolous) like ears
cleaner throat area (hard to tell as he is fuzzy)
stronger hindquearters
front cannon bones a tad short
could have a slightly deeper chest

Can someone correct me if my terminology or critiqueing is wrong?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here are some pictures of Ebony. He's the buck with long pasterns


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Oops, didn't attach the pictures...


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Anyone??


----------



## margaret

OK fine, since I've been so lazy recently:lol:
Just give a minute...or 5:lol:


----------



## margaret

OK, or 12 minutes.

Ebony~This goat seems oddly familiar:lol: how old is he now, 2?
BTW, I’m going off what looks like the most recent pictures, those first two.

Cons:
~Steep rump
~A bit weak in the hindquarters
~posty rear legs
~Long pasterns
~toes out in front, at least a bit, going off one of the pics
~Could use more brisket
~rather awkward blending in the front end assembly, would like too a lot more smoothness of blending

Pros:
~OK length to neck
~Masculine neck
~overall good masculinity
~Good length of body
~withers look good
~Nice and tall at the withers
~Withers higher than hips
~He’s actually quite level over the topline, just gets a bit steeper in the rump
~long topline
~Good strength to topline
~Pasterns have held up reasonably well for being so long
~Has gained a lot more depth recently
~Good depth of barrel
~Good body capacity
~good dairy strength
~Overall, nice and level


----------



## margaret

Well that was rather short
see what happens when I slack off...


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He turned two March 12  And I believe you bred him so he should be somewhat familiar :lol:


----------



## margaret

Oh yes, that would be why:lol:

His half sister is looking very nice this year...


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

That would be Empress? Whose daughter is she? or are you talking about one of Emerald's doelings from last year? I can never get all your goats straight :crazy: :lol:


----------



## margaret

Yep, Empress. She's also Willie's but out of Oreo. So she's Emerald's half sister.


----------



## gabby5946

So what do you think of my first fresheners udder. This is the first time we have separated her from the kids for the night


----------



## margaret

^Looks good! If you could get a side pic, I'll critique it for you

Anyone want to practice on Taxman?


----------



## COgoatLover25

Taxman looks great!! When did you get him?


----------



## margaret

Thanks! I bought him last spring, as a kid.


----------



## COgoatLover25

He's handsome


----------



## margaret

I'm really pleased with how he's looking this year, his kids are looking nice too


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Gabby

Nice globular shaped udder
Strong medial
Wide rear udder

Cons
Teats could be more central 
Teat shape could be a little longer and less cone shaped but that doesn't count much on the score card.
Needs higher read udder 

Would need to see a side picture to see fore udder blending and if there are equal thirds of udder in front behind and to the rear of her hind legs.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here's taxman - 

Pros -
Good dairy character
Pretty good dairy wedge
Overall good appearance and blending throughout
Long topline 
Level topline
Strong topline
Smooth withers
Strong pasterns
Fairly clean shoulders
Long neck
Masculine neck
Well blended from neck to shoulder
Well blended from neck to withers
Clean muzzle
Deep muzzle
Straight profile
Good depth

Cons -
Funny looking brisket 
Elbow could be tighter and smoother
Withers could be sharper
Flat rump
Weak back legs
Face could be longer
Could have better blending from neck to brisket
Maybe a tiny bit weak in the chine? 
Looks to be a little skimpy from knee to hoof


----------



## goatygirl

Sorry for the bad pics but this is one of my week old doelings named Soda Pop.


----------



## Ranger1

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Here's taxman -
> 
> Pros -
> Good dairy character
> Pretty good dairy wedge
> Overall good appearance and blending throughout
> Long topline
> Level topline
> Strong topline
> Smooth withers
> Strong pasterns
> Fairly clean shoulders
> Long neck
> Masculine neck
> Well blended from neck to shoulder
> Well blended from neck to withers
> Clean muzzle
> Deep muzzle
> Straight profile
> Good depth
> 
> Cons -
> Funny looking brisket
> Elbow could be tighter and smoother
> Withers could be sharper
> Flat rump
> Weak back legs
> Face could be longer
> Could have better blending from neck to brisket
> Maybe a tiny bit weak in the chine?
> Looks to be a little skimpy from knee to hoof


I think his brisket looks weird because his point of shoulder is too big.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do her!  

Pros - 
Fairly long topline
Fairly level topline
Straight front legs
Strong front legs
Long neck
Slender neck
Dairy neck
Feminine neck (can you tell I like her neck? ) 
Smooth withers
Cute little face
Gorgeous coloring
Short pasterns
Strong rear pasterns
Sweet little dished face (though I think the dished face would really count as a con...)

Cons - 
Extremely weak front patterns
Lacks brisket
Step rump
Weak back legs
Bent cannons?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ranger1 said:


> I think his brisket looks weird because his point of shoulder is too big.


Yeah, I think you're right.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Who wants to do my junior kid herd? Again, my mom took most of these photos and clearly does not know how to hold the camera at the correct position as lots of these photos are at weird and unflattering angles. But, also this was some the the goats' first time with a collar, so they couldn't stand still long enough! lol :greengrin:

Buckling #1 almost three months old Hawk




















Buckling #2 two months old Elmer


----------



## Dairy_goat

Doeling #1 almost 3 months Rowdee















Doeling #2 2 months old Chablis





















Doeling #3- 3 months old (1st doeling's twin) Flancy




















Doeling# 4 2 months old Snowshoe


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do doeling #2 

Pros -
Cool coloring
Good dairy character
Good dairy wedge
Smooth and well blended throughout
Long neck
Slender neck
Dairy neck
Well blended from neck to brisket
Well blended from neck to withers
Smooth withers
Strong topline
Long topline
Level topline
Well blended from topline to withers
Good depth
Strong canons
Straight canons
Strong front legs
Strong pasterns
Tight toes
Good brisket
Good profile
Deep muzzle
Good depth
Well angled rear legs

Cons - 
Long pasterns
Steep rump
withers could be sharper
Shoulders could be smoother

She's a gorgeous little doeling


----------



## Frieza

*Lilly*

Hi this is my goat Lilly,shes two years old


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

What happened to her left eye?!


----------



## Frieza

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> What happened to her left eye?!


I am not sure,Im currently using Bag balm on it and I am unaware of what kinda condition it is.Another problem is that weird skull part which she obtained from a cow as a baby :faint:


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Lilly needs some groceries, minerals, and a hoof trim.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Frieza said:


> I am not sure,Im currently using Bag balm on it and I am unaware of what kinda condition it is.Another problem is that weird skull part which she obtained from a cow as a baby :faint:


Bag balm has no antibacterial properties. It will keep the area moist and may actually encourage infection.

A little hard to judge confirmation on this doe because of the pictures and because she's under conditioned.

She is a very pretty girl who looks like she has nice strong pasterns.

I think with the right diet she could really shine. I'd check a fecal on her and deworm her based on the results.

If you'd like to post in goat management or health we can help you assess your current practices and give some insight on ways to make Lilly look and feel her best.

Hay, forage, a good goat loose mineral, maybe a copper bolus, and maybe selenium. I would probably give her grain too in order to put some weight on her

She looks like a sweety


----------



## Frieza

nicolemackenzie said:


> Bag balm has no antibacterial properties. It will keep the area moist and may actually encourage infection.
> 
> A little hard to judge confirmation on this doe because of the pictures and because she's under conditioned.
> 
> She is a very pretty girl who looks like she has nice strong pasterns.
> 
> I think with the right diet she could really shine. I'd check a fecal on her and deworm her based on the results.
> 
> If you'd like to post in goat management or health we can help you assess your current practices and give some insight on ways to make Lilly look and feel her best.
> 
> Hay, forage, a good goat loose mineral, maybe a copper bolus, and maybe selenium. I would probably give her grain too in order to put some weight on her
> 
> She looks like a sweety


Can you please tell me what groceries I should get?:O
Im a first time goat owner and I don't know what to do.The owners were about to move out so she was left in our care,also thank you,we live in a generally goatless area so we probably need some-Lots of help


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

She's going to need a friend, secure fencing, shelter, fresh clean water daily, loose minerals, copper bolus, probably selenium/e supplementation, good quality hay free choice, alfalfa, and gradual introduction of good grain. On top of that a fecal and appropriate deworming based on those results, and a hoof trim....

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I'm sure I'm missing a lot!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Congrats on your new goat we all began somewhere. There are a lot of people on here with many years of experience and a willingness to share what they've learned.

I'd start by taking a fecal sample to a vet or sending it to a lab. This will tell you what kind if any parasites she has that could be stealing nutrients from her. Deworm based on those results. Come back with the results and we can point you towards the right medicine.

Get a loose mineral specifically made for goats and leave it out all the time for her. I use sweetlix meatmaker because that's what my feed store has and it seems to work well.

She can have good quality hay free choice.

I'd start her on grain as well. I use caprine challenger by blue seal. There are other pre-mixed choices to choose from as well such as Dumor and Purina. Others here prefer to mix their own formulas. If you use a pre mixed food make sure it is for goats only and not a sheep feed or sheep and goat feed as it won't have enough copper.

Speaking of copper I would get goat sized copper blouses ( ordered online ) and give her one.

Maybe a moderator can move this to its own thread?

Edit; I would also get her a companion. Either a neutered boy ( whether ) or another doe. Get one her size that has horns like she does.


----------



## Frieza

deerbunnyfarm said:


> She's going to need a friend, secure fencing, shelter, fresh clean water daily, loose minerals, copper bolus, probably selenium/e supplementation, good quality hay free choice, alfalfa, and gradual introduction of good grain. On top of that a fecal and appropriate deworming based on those results, and a hoof trim....
> 
> Can't think of anything else off the top of my head but I'm sure I'm missing a lot!





nicolemackenzie said:


> Congrats on your new goat we all began somewhere. There are a lot of people on here with many years of experience and a willingness to share what they've learned.
> 
> I'd start by taking a fecal sample to a vet or sending it to a lab. This will tell you what kind if any parasites she has that could be stealing nutrients from her. Deworm based on those results. Come back with the results and we can point you towards the right medicine.
> 
> Get a loose mineral specifically made for goats and leave it out all the time for her. I use sweetlix meatmaker because that's what my feed store has and it seems to work well.
> 
> She can have good quality hay free choice.
> 
> I'd start her on grain as well. I use caprine challenger by blue seal. There are other pre-mixed choices to choose from as well such as Dumor and Purina. Others here prefer to mix their own formulas. If you use a pre mixed food make sure it is for goats only and not a sheep feed or sheep and goat feed as it won't have enough copper.
> 
> Speaking of copper I would get goat sized copper blouses ( ordered online ) and give her one.
> 
> Maybe a moderator can move this to its own thread?
> 
> Edit; I would also get her a companion. Either a neutered boy ( whether ) or another doe. Get one her size that has horns like she does.


I have 6 chickens  but thats all I can get probably.I live in a very urban area,and yes I will make a Lilly Help forum soon named that,sorry.She doesnt eat the hay we got her and eats our broom instead.Those pictures are from the first day we got her,I'll post recent pics soon!And I'll move this to her own forum.


----------



## margaret

I claim doeling #3


----------



## margaret

Cons:
-Severely lacking in the ear department
-ewe necked
-would like her to be higher in the withers
-Could blend better from the neck into the brisket
-Lacking in brisket
-shoulder could be smoother
-Could blend better from the shoulder into the brisket and neck
-Front end assembly is a bit awkward and roughly put together right now
-toes out in the front
-a little pinched and shallow in the chest
-front legs are too far forward
-could stand squarer in the rear legs
-hocks don’t line up with pins

Pros:
-nice, feminine head
-clean cut, well defined nostrils
-strong broad jaw
-OK length of neck
-lean neck
-dairy neck
-withers are OK for the most part
-long topline
-strong topline
-strong chine
-level topline
-level rump
-Smooth topline
-long rump
-strong rear legs
-strong rear pasterns
-good width of front end
-good width between front legs
-good width in the rear
-good width between the hocks
-fairly well set rear legs

Sorry to be a bit harsh on her, I’m just telling it like I see it. She’s not a bad looking little doe, and I think she has potential, but I’m not a fan of her front end assembly right now. She’s a little awkwardly put together and isn’t as smooth as I’d like to see. Overall though a nice looking kid, she’s very long and level!


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Cons:
> -Severely lacking in the ear department


 I have a feeling that you might not like Lamanchas as much as the other "eared" breeds!

:shock::shock::lol::lol::lol::slapfloor: :slapfloor:

Thanks for the critique!


----------



## Petra490

Do you want to do my buckling?
Sorry, don't have anyone to hold him. Hope these pictures will do. He is two and a half months old.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He gorgeous! And the picture are fine


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> I have a feeling that you might not like Lamanchas as much as the other "eared" breeds!
> 
> :shock::shock::lol::lol::lol::slapfloor: :slapfloor:
> 
> Thanks for the critique!


Haha sorry, I couldn't resist:lol: And yeah, I'm not a huge fan of LaManchas.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Petra490's buckling -

Pros - 
Lovely coloring, especially his face  
Long body
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topline
Long neck
Slender neck
Well angled rump
Nice rear leg set
Beautiful long straight canons
Wide chest
Strong front legs
Well formed ears
Good neck
Smooth withers
Broad forehead
Good brisket
I can't see his neck or blending in that area, so I'm not quite sure, but he looks to have a pretty nice and well attached neck 

Cons - 
Weak pasterns
Lacks depth
Just slightly cow hocked
Toes out in rear legs
Short rump
Front legs are a little stocky for a dairy goat
Elbows could be tighter and cleaner

Is he part Boer? He seems to have the front legs and chest of a meat goat.


----------



## Petra490

Thank you! 
No he is not part Boer. He is PB Nubian.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Buckling #1, Hawk

Pros -
Good dairy wedge
Level topline
Strong topline
Long topline
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns
I'll just say smooth shoulder cause either can't quite tell 
Good depth
Straight profile
Nice width between front legs
Smooth withers
fairly sharp withers
Very broad forehead
Nice wide shoulders

Cons - 
Canons don't line up with pins
flat rump
Short neck
Thick neck
Lacks width in rump
Muzzle could be deeper
Seems to have rough blending throughout, but it may just be all the hair


----------



## Petra490

I guess I'm going to keep you busy.
Sorry I have no better pictures. I took these a few weeks back, so now I'm just digging through trying to see if any are usable at all. I'm going to post several, hopefully you'll be able to get an idea.
Here is my doeling Hazel:


----------



## Petra490

Here is Molly:
I don't know very much about conformation. I appreciate the critique!
I have a question. If you were to pick between Molly and Hazel, which one would you pick...just based on looks, not bloodlines? (Hazel is almost a month older than Molly.)


----------



## Petra490

Last one. This one is a yearling, Domino:


----------



## margaret

I like Hazel best. I'll critique her soon


----------



## margaret

Dairy_Goat's Buckling #2. Who is he? Out of one of your does?

Cons:
-a tad weak in those rear pasterns
-hocks are back just a tad too far
-hocks don’t line up with pins
-I’d like to see more strength in the rear legs
-could use more width between the front legs
-could blend a bit smoother in the chest/brisket/front shoulder
-lacking in brisket
-could be stronger in the front pasterns

Pros:
-lovely neck
-slender neck
-long neck
-dairy neck
-strong head
-strong, broad jaw
-clean cut, well sculpted nostrils
-clean throat latch
-neck blends well into the withers
-neck blends well into the upper shoulder
-fairly well blended in most of the shoulder
-nice and tall at the withers
-smooth, clean withers
-sharp withers
- higher at withers than hips
-upstanding
-long topline
-long body
-strong topline
-strong chine
-level topline
-long rump
-level rump
-nice and straight in the front legs
-stands squarely on the front legs
-strong chest, though I would like to see more width
-very squarely set on the rear legs when viewed from behind
-excellent width between hocks
-very straight rear legs when viewed from behind

Overall a very nice buck kid!


----------



## Petra490

Thank you Margaret!
I guess I should learn what to look for. I can kind of tell if an adult goat looks good or not. Not good with babies at all.
Hazel is a doeling I sold right after she was born. She is just here until she will be ready to be weaned. So I sold her for $280, and than turned around and bought Molly for $450. 
Both are registered, Hazel has stronger milk lines and her dam has a lot nicer udder. I am pretty mad at myself right now.


----------



## deerbunnyfarm

Well, take a male from Hazel's breeding and cross with Molly. Molly has nicer brisket imo and Hazel has better topline and looks wider, but with a cross you could get a really nice kid!


----------



## Petra490

deerbunnyfarm said:


> Well, take a male from Hazel's breeding and cross with Molly. Molly has nicer brisket imo and Hazel has better topline and looks wider, but with a cross you could get a really nice kid!


Well Hazel is sold and will be leaving in a couple of weeks. But I am thinking of not selling this boy and breeding him to Molly.
I think they should produce some nice babies. What do you think?


----------



## COgoatLover25

What are the bloodlines on Molly? Honestly, at this age, it's near impossible to predict exactly how they're going to turn out, since they change so much as they grow. Which is the reason many experienced breeders choose the kids based on the dams and sires dam. You can also get a lot of throwbacks when breeding certain bloodlines.


----------



## margaret

Petra490 said:


> Thank you Margaret!
> I guess I should learn what to look for. I can kind of tell if an adult goat looks good or not. Not good with babies at all.
> Hazel is a doeling I sold right after she was born. She is just here until she will be ready to be weaned. So I sold her for $280, and than turned around and bought Molly for $450.
> Both are registered, Hazel has stronger milk lines and her dam has a lot nicer udder. I am pretty mad at myself right now.


I always get so mad at myself when I sell a kid that turns out really nice!
Not to say Molly isn't a nice looking kid, but I think Hazel is going to be a nicer doe. The main thing I dislike about Molly is her topline, but it may level out as she matures. What does her dam look like?
You definitely want to take the sire and dam into consideration when keeping kids, because, as Lindsey said, it can be hard to tell how they're going to look as adults when they are so young.

But, by the time I clip my Senior kids down for the first time(3-4) months and can get a pretty good idea of what kind of goat they're going to be when they mature, and at this point I can definitely say which of your doelings I like the best


----------



## Petra490

COgoatLover25 said:


> What are the bloodlines on Molly? Honestly, at this age, it's near impossible to predict exactly how they're going to turn out, since they change so much as they grow. Which is the reason many experienced breeders choose the kids based on the dams and sires dam. You can also get a lot of throwbacks when breeding certain bloodlines.


Thank you!  Molly has pretty nice bloodlines. Her dam is not the best looking goat out there. I haven't seen her sire since he passed last fall. I liked his bloodlines though. Here is a picture of Molly's planned pedigree and her dam.


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## Petra490

margaret said:


> I always get so mad at myself when I sell a kid that turns out really nice!
> Not to say Molly isn't a nice looking kid, but I think Hazel is going to be a nicer doe. The main thing I dislike about Molly is her topline, but it may level out as she matures. What does her dam look like?
> You definitely want to take the sire and dam into consideration when keeping kids, because, as Lindsey said, it can be hard to tell how they're going to look as adults when they are so young.
> 
> But, by the time I clip my Senior kids down for the first time(3-4) months and can get a pretty good idea of what kind of goat they're going to be when they mature, and at this point I can definitely say which of your doelings I like the best


Thanks! 
I doubt it will level out, since her dam doesn't have a nice topline either.
I'm hoping the buckling would fix that though. His dam has a nice topline and is a lot better quality doe than Molly's dam. Here is his planned pedigree.
I bought Molly mainly because she is unrelated. If I kept Hazel, I'd have to breed her to her half brother, since I do not have an unrelated buck. It's super hard to find a good quality Nubians around here. I don't show and mainly want them for the milk. But I do like to produce nice babies.


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## COgoatLover25

Petra490 said:


> Thank you!  Molly has pretty nice bloodlines. Her dam is not the best looking goat out there. I haven't seen her sire since he passed last fall. I liked his bloodlines though. Here is a picture of Molly's planned pedigree and her dam.


Her dam is ok, not terrible but not fantastic by any means. I will tell you that you paid too much for Molly, I'm not familiar with much of her genetics and there's really nothing too notable until about the 3rd generation. I work with mostly Kastdemur's bloodlines, I love the results I'm getting but sometimes people tend to cross them with does of the wrong body styles etc. 
Do you mind me asking where you're located? If you'll PM me (try to keep this thread mainly about actually critiquing dairy goats) I may be able to find a breeder with decent prices near you.


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## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Dairy_Goat's Buckling #2. Who is he? Out of one of your does?
> Overall a very nice buck kid!


 He is out of one of my does. Thanks for the critique, I just wanted to see how well Symphonie's buckling was growing out! I _really_ wish that he was a doeling!  He is actually going to freezer camp this summer (I don't have room for a related buckling)...shh I didn't tell him yet! ;-)


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## margaret

That's too bad, he looks nice.
Have you tried selling him as a breeding buck?


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## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> That's too bad, he looks nice.
> Have you tried selling him as a breeding buck?


 I have...with no registration papers though, $125. I just gave up trying to sell him.


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## Huff_farm

Here is my friendly lamancha


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## margaret

^^I'll do her when I get a chance.

Anyone want to do Faramir? He was Jr. Champion Alpine buck twice last weekend I'm really liking how he's turning out...


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## margaret

This is for that pretty lamancha doe on the last page
Cons:
-Could use a bit more weight
-could be higher in the withers
-hips are a tad bit higher than the withers
-could use just a bit more angulation in the rear legs
-withers and shoulders are rough, but I think that could be improved with more weight
-needs to blend better in the shoulders and front end assembly

Pros:
-long neck
-lean neck
-dairy neck
-good dairy character 
-good angulation throughout
-long topline
-fairly level topline
-strong topline
-OK levelness of rump
-OK length of rump
-strong pasterns
-OK depth of body for age(she looks young)
-fairy body capacity
-OK depth of heart girth

I know that’s short, but it’s all the time I have right now. How old is she? She looks like a FF. I think she could turn out to be a nice doe with a little more weight, and a couple more freshenings and time to mature. Does someone else want to do her udder?

Also, I think I said I would critique another doe, but I don’t remember who it was.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Faramir - 

Pros - 
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topline
Smooth withers
Well blended from topline to withers
Strong rear pasterns
Well angled rear legs
Long canons
Straight canons
Long neck
Good dairy wedge
Straight front legs
Straight front legs
Deep muzzle
Well defined mouth and nostrils
Good brisket
Well blended from neck to withers
Masculine neck
Well blended from neck to shoulders

Cons - 
Slightly dished profile
Long pasterns
Weak front pasterns
Brisket could be a little bigger
Lacks depth
Neck could be a little more slender
Shoulders could be smoother
Elbows could be tighter (?)

Who are his dam and sire?


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## margaret

He is an Adonis kid out of Oreo. He's one of my last buck kids of the year, I'm trying to get him sold now, I already had to wean him before he bred all his sisters:lol: 

I want to sell him as a breeding buck, since he's a really nice looking goat and I'd hate to have to sell him for meat.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Buckling #1, Hawk -

Pros - 
Good rump
Straight front legs 
Strong front legs
Fairly level topline
Fairly strong topline
Good profile
Broad forehead
Good depth
Short pasterns 
Strong pasterns
Smooth withers
Fairly sharp withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Long neck
Good dairy wedge
Nice width between front legs
Fairly tight toes, they might could be tighter

Cons - 
Wither could sharper, higher, and more prominent
Canons could be longer
Lacks brisket
Thick neck
Pinched muzzle
Lacks rear width
Weak chine
Could have better blending from neck to brisket


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## Dairy_goat

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Buckling #1, Hawk -
> 
> Pros -
> Good rump
> Straight front legs
> Strong front legs
> Fairly level topline
> Fairly strong topline
> Good profile
> Broad forehead
> Good depth
> Short pasterns
> Strong pasterns
> Smooth withers
> Fairly sharp withers
> Well blended from withers to topline
> Long neck
> Good dairy wedge
> Nice width between front legs
> Fairly tight toes, they might could be tighter
> 
> Cons -
> Wither could sharper, higher, and more prominent
> Canons could be longer
> Lacks brisket
> Thick neck
> Pinched muzzle
> Lacks rear width
> Weak chine
> Could have better blending from neck to brisket


Buckling #1, Hawk

Pros -
Good dairy wedge
Level topline
Strong topline
Long topline
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns
I'll just say smooth shoulder cause either can't quite tell 
Good depth
Straight profile
Nice width between front legs
Smooth withers
fairly sharp withers
Very broad forehead
Nice wide shoulders

Cons - 
Canons don't line up with pins
flat rump
Short neck
Thick neck
Lacks width in rump
Muzzle could be deeper
Seems to have rough blending throughout, but it may just be all the hair

You actually did him twice! Thanks!


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## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do Plumey? What other goats need to be critiqued, I will try to do one or two!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Whoops :faint:
Which of those kids still need to be done?


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## Dairy_goat

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Whoops :faint:
> Which of those kids still need to be done?


At least both critiques are basically that same so that means that you are pretty consistent with it!!


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## Petra490

If you'd find the time to do my Molly, Domino and Hazel, I'd really appreciate it. 
The pictures are on page 34.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Domino -

Pros - 
Long neck
Dairy neck
Slender neck
Straight front legs
Strong front legs
Well blended from neck to withers 
Beautiful Nubian ears, long and large, pointing forward with the perfect curl at the end
Looks to have good rear width
Good dairy wedge
Feminine neck
Pasterns look to be short and strong, but I can't quite tell
Good width between front legs
Fairly smooth shoulders
Deep brisket
Well angled back legs
Deep muzzle

Cons - 
Weak chine
Steep rump
Disorderly and unappealing profile and poll
Canons could be longer
Pasterns could be sharper, but they're okay
Slightly roached back
Lacks depth, it's not too bad though


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## Dairy_goat

Hazel: I am sure that I am missing many points, but I am just starting out with critiquing. She is cute!!

Pros: long feminine neck
short pasterns 
nicely angled hocks
clean elbows
nice width of chest 
clean blending of the neck at the withers
long bone pattern throughout 
pin bones seem to line up with hocks

Cons:

short and slightly steep rump

sway backed (it is hard to tell since she is not on a flat surface)

shoulder is a little coarse (?) 

could have a wider arch


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Plumey - 

Pros - 
I love her coloring, and she's got a beautiful mask 
Well blended throughout
Good overall appearance
Nice dairy look
Spectacular dairy wedge
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Fairly well angled rump
Slender neck
Smooth shoulders
Nice ears - erect and beautiful 
Okay brisket
Fairly well angled back legs
Broad forehead
Good depth
Smooth withers
Fairly sharp withers
Well blended fro neck to withers
Well blended from wither to topline
Straight front legs
Strong front legs
Looks to have good rear width

Cons - 
Ungainly and undignified neck
Brisket could be bigger
Toes could use some tightening
Short canons
Long pasterns
Slightly weak pasterns
Could have better blending from neck to brisket
Withers could be higher and sharper


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## goatygirl

December5. She scrunched her back in the last picture.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I love her udder! Just gorgeous


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## Roasted_Peanuts

Would love to hear your thoughts. This is Envy at 10 days old Thanks


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I love his topline, it's very level for a ten day old kid. Good withers and rump also. He toes out pretty badly in the front though. Nice width between chest, and good short pasterns. They look to be pretty strong also. It's hard to give them an accurate critique when they're young because they change a lot as they grow and they have lots of fluff at that age, but he look pretty good


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Goatygirl's doe - 

Pros - 
Good depth
Long neck
Slender neck
Feminine neck
Dairy neck (love the neck )
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from neck to brisket
Straight profile

Cons - 
Weak and lumpy topline - I guess that would be a roached back and a weak chine
Short topline
Steep rump
Lacks brisket
Bad wedge
Extremely short canons
Terrible pasterns
Shoulder could be smoother
Elbows could be tighter

Sorry that sounds pretty bad, but the way I see it she's not a great dairy goat. Bad outline. Too lumpy and uneven. And the pasterns are pretty bad. Her strong points are her neck, depth, and udder. She could see worlds of improvement. Maybe I'll get around to her udder later. I dunno where all the rest of the critique-ers got too :hammer:


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## margaret

Hey guys, I'll do some when I get a chance, I've been gone for the past 5 days. Sorry for my absence!


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## Niginewbie

Hi. I'd love to hear critiques on my doe Allie. This is her 3rd freshening. She's currently nursing 8 week old triplets. The full body shot doesn't have a full udder but the other pics have a 9 hour fill.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Allie - 

Pros - 
Pretty good dairy wedge, it a a little steep though
Sharp withers
Smooth withers
Awesome brisket
Very deep
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Level topline
Fairly strong topline
Well blended from neck to brisket
Well blended from neck to shoulder
Well blended from neck to withers
Fairly long neck
Short pasterns
Lovely beard

Cons - 
Posty back legs
Short canons
Thick neck
Steep rump
Withers and topline could be smoother
Toes out slightly in all four legs
Weak front pasterns

Udder (disclaimer: I'm horrible at udders!) - 

Pros - 
Nice shape
Carried high
Perfectly divided between front of legs and back of legs
Nice teat shape
Teats pointing the perfect degree forward
Good capacity 

Cons - 
Lacks front and rear attachment.... okay, on second thought, maybe her rear attachments are pretty good.
Teats to close to the sides
Could have a stronger medial (?)


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## margaret

Yes, I'm going to flip Plumey's pictures:ROFL: I tried to critique her and just turn my head around and deal with it but it's driving me crazy:lol:
View attachment 108839


View attachment 108840


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## margaret

Critique for Plumey is in the works, but I'm not done yet


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## margaret

OK, for Plumeria.
Cons:
~would like to see her head held a little higher
~slightly ewe necked
~would like to see a broader muzzle
~Could be broader in the jaw as well
~longer neck
~lacking in brisket
~a bit 'pinched' in the chest
~could be wider in the chest and heart girth
~Could blend better from the neck into brisket
~could use more depth of barrel, but that should come with age, she's still young!
~rather posty rear legs

Pros:
~pretty face
~dairy, feminine head
~lean neck
~clean throat latch
~blends fairly well from the neck into shoulders
~Clean withers
~Sharp withers
~Smooth withers
~OK depth in heart girth
~OK width of front legs
~Nice straight front legs
~Strong, squarely set front legs
~Nice length of body
~Nice dairy character
~Well angulated throughout
~long topline
~Level topline
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~long rump
~Level rump
~pins line up nicely with hocks
~OK width between hocks(I think they look worse in the picture than they actually are)
~Long, level and dairy throughout

Udder:
Cons:
~I’d like to see her fuller in the rear udder.

~Smoother fore udder attachment
~longer fore udder attachment

Pros:
~Nice, even halves
~well proportioned
~Good capacity
~good rear attachments
~Nice rear udder arch
~uniform shape and size
~well placed teats
~strong medial

She’s a nice doe! Looks a lot like her granddam 
I think she has a lot of potential, she has some nice animals behind her. Is she a second freshener?


----------



## margaret

Megan, if you're around, would you mind doing Special?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Since you asked I will :lol:


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## COgoatLover25

Pretty girl Margaret


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## margaret

Thanks Lindsey, I'm rather fond of her myself


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Special:

Can't say much about her head, cause of the angle of the picture 

Pros:
-Pretty facial markings
-Good breed character
-Long neck
-Feminine, refined neck
-Looks to have good brisket
-Smooth neck/brisket blending
-Good withers/neck blending
-Sharp withers
-Good shoulder/neck blending
-Good shoulder assembly
-Strong front legs
-Good pasterns, personally I like that angle
-Front legs placed squarely below shoulder
-Good blending from shoulder to barrel
-Okay depth in heart girth for her age, could have a bit more
-Nice depth in barrel, will probably get better with age
-Strong topline
-Strong chine
-Long topline
-Good body length
-Nice thigh, well attached to barrel/hindquarter
-Good hindquarter assembly
-Long rump
-Level rump
-Hocks/pins line up
-Strong rear legs
-Nice clean appearance
-Good dairy character
-Nice uphill stance
-Nice width between rear legs
-Looks to have good with in chest as well



Cons:
-Throat latch could be more defined
-Back of jaw could be less swollen looking
-Elbows look a tad loose
-Could have a smoother chest floor
-Toes out in fore
-Lacks heel in both fore and rear
-Leg bones could be more refined, but it might be she just needs to grow into them
-Rear pasterns are a bit long


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I think I missed some things...Lindsey, want to do her too?

Definitely could do better, sadly not in the critique-y mood :lol:


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## margaret

Thanks Megan!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

I have a kid y'all can do if ya want 

Gandalf The White: (sorry the pictures aren't the best, every time I moved to get a better shot he kept walking off on me lol)


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## margaret

Oooh, pretty. I'll do him!
I love his name


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Thanks! My brother and friend named him lol!


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## mommal

I am _just _starting to learn about goat conformation (after all these years :roll! Your opinions are GREATLY appreciated!!

Can you help me out with these guys?

The first is *Bess*. She's just a year and is half Mini Nubian and half Standard Nubian.

The second is *Lunar*, a registered Nigerian that I adore. I love her face (sorry, that's the only shot I could get of her today). She has a bit of a dip to her back, but her kids are always standing on her and I hope that's why.... and her wither fur is standing up because she sees my Corgi!

The third is her polled buck, *Sol *from this year, so he's only 12 weeks old.... maybe hard to tell what his conformation is like with all those weeds upstaging him. I love his personality, calm and sweet. I would love to use him for breeding if he's decent.

I should note that I don't show.. but I want to breed with conformation in mind.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your opinions!!


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## mommal

I wonder if I've posted this in the wrong place? I think maybe I should have posted in Conformation for Dummies.... Should I, (can I) move it there?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Nope, you posted right! This is the third thread in the series of "learning to critique" threads


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## Suzanne_Tyler

J. O. Y. Farm - He's got amazing depth and brisket! Love his name, too.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

Thanks 

I'm very happy with him


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## COgoatLover25

He is handsome Skyla! Who's kid is he?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

He's out of Vey and my Longvu buck


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## COgoatLover25

Ah, very nice! You know I love Vey!!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

LOL! Yes, I do know you love Vey  a lot of people do lol


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## LamanchaAcres

If someone could critique My yearling buck bandit, that would be great . Hes shown well, already has a leg and a best in show win. I Dont have very good pictures, this one was at the last show.


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## Ranger1

Skyla, I like him, but it looks like he might have cocci.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

He's been on prevention with Baycox, and has normal poos.. His brother is also extremely deep bodied if that is why you think he has cocci.. His half brother as a kid was fairly deep as well.. And their sire too. They also have nice pink eye lids


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I claim the black lamancha buck!


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## J.O.Y. Farm

LamanchaAcres said:


> View attachment 108884
> 
> 
> If someone could critique My yearling buck bandit, that would be great . He shown well, already has a leg and a best in show win. Dont have very good pictures, this one was at the last show.


Oh he's very handsome!


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## mommal

Well, guys.... It's okay to tell it like it is with my group! Are they that bad that no one wants to hurt my feelings? It's okay. I'd rather know what I'm working with (or shouldn't work with!).


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## Ranger1

Huh. If a goat is THAT deep at that age, I think that's a breeding trait that has gone overboard. It doesn't look healthy. I don't mean to be rude or anything, just sayin'.


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## J.O.Y. Farm

That picture was also taken right after he had his grain and morning milk too. 
But I think it's a stage. His half brother was like that, and he grew to be more like their dam. I had a buck a few years ago that was very depthy at a young age, and he kept it.. 
I know you're not trying to be rude  
I honestly think he will grow out of it some, if not mostly.. 
This is his brother: (not at te best angle.. My mom took that pic..)


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Mommal - Your goats aren't the greatest stock, but how long have you had goats? Most goat owners don't start with good stock. I like the buckling best, then the first doe. The middle doe has a poor topline and posty back legs. I'll type out lists for you soon 

And, because my question got lost way back when this thread was sorta... dead...
What are you looking for in a chest floor? What's good and what's bad?


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## mommal

Thanks for responding Suzanne! I'm glad you like the buck best, because he's the one I most hoped to keep. I really appreciate your honesty.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Bess - 

Pros - 
Smooth withers
Fairly sharp withers
Long neck
Deep muzzle
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from neck to shoulders
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Fairly strong pasterns
Okay depth
Pretty level topline


Cons - 
Steep rump
Roached back
Weak chine
Thick neck
Shoulders could be smoother
Legs a tad posty
Long pasterns
Bad wedge
Ears could be bigger
Lacks brisket
Toes out in back legs
Not the best overall appearance


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Lunar - 

Pros - 
Pretty coloring
Nice ears
Great depth 
Good width between eyes
Calm face (even with the corgi!)
Happy face
Withers look pretty good, but I can't say that for sure because of her collar 
Straight front legs 
Strong front legs
Deep brisket
Shoulders look pretty smooth
Overall good assembly of front quarters

Cons - 
Bad wedge
Weak chine
Steep rump
Horrible pasterns
Posty back legs
Short neck
Think neck
Toes could be tighter
Spindly back legs
Badly sloped topline


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Sol -

Pros - 
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Great topline - much better than the other two
Smooth withers
Slender neck
Sharp withers
Good depth
Sweet face
Looks to have good brisket
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Long neck

Cons - 
Steep rump
Could have better blending from neck to brisket
Wedge could be better

I'm having trouble finding more flaws... 
I can't tell you anything about his legs, pasterns or toes because of the weeds, but a think he looks pretty good. One thing he's not well matched with the two does is the steep rump. If he's got weak pasterns that wouldn't be good for improving Lunar. But his neck and topline are way better than theirs.


----------



## mommal

THANK YOU so much, Suzanne! You made me look up terms I didn't know. And that's (embarrassing, but...) a good thing, because I surely shouldn't be breeding unless I know what I'm doing. I really appreciate that!


----------



## mommal

Suzanne, I am buying another Nubian doe with very good conformation (from a woman whose whole family has been showing for years). So, I'll have a better mate for Sol. I have one more Nubian doe that won't be ready until next year. I hope to get opinions about her before long. Less stock of higher quality is better than more that are not so good! So, I have no problem letting some go. Thanks again!


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## margaret

OK Megan, but I'm doing him after you!


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## margaret

Well, I was going to to Gandalf, but I'm not exactly in a 'judgey' so I'm afraid it would end up rather short. I'll do him later though.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Petra490's doeling Molly - 

Pros - 
Good rear width
Good space between front legs
Straight front legs
Strong front legs
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns
Good nubi ears
okay brisket
Okay topline for a kid
Well angled back legs
Tight toes
Smooth withers
High withers
Long neck
Dairy neck
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from neck to shoulders
Well blended from wither to topline
Well blended from neck to brisket
Smooth and well assembled front quarters

Cons - 
Steep rump
Short canons
Brisket could be deeper
Lacks depth
Neck is a little thick
Short canons
Weak chine
Poor wedge


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## gabby5946

What do you think of my first freshener Meredith?

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Her or her udder? She's got the worst roach back I've ever seen. Wow. And posty rear legs don't help that any. Does her topline always look like that??


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Her udder looks pretty good, I like her teats. Is she a LaMancha? Because if she is, her udder is actually great, they are bred to be like that. Else, it's oddly shaped and the front attachment instead well extended.


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## margaret

Well, I certainly don't like her topline, but they often look horrible on the stand, especially if they have to bend down to eat...so maybe you could get a picture of her standing naturally, or set up.
Her udder does look pretty good though.
Nice, even halves, good rear udder attachments, nice shape, well placed teats.


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## margaret

Gandalf

Cons:
~little short in the rump
~could be longer in the neck
~Could be leaner in the neck
~slightly ewe necked
~would like to see him a bit smoother in the withers
~Could be taller at the withers
~Withers are about level with hips, should be higher

Pros:
~excellent brisket
~Excellent depth of chest
~strong and powerful front end 
~good depth of heart girth
~Long topline
~Level topline
~Strong topline
~Strong chine
~Nicely sloped rump
~Good angulation of the rear legs
~Good dairy character throughout, even though he is a little stocky
~nice strong rear legs
~Strong rear pasterns
~Good depth of barrel
~Good length of body
~Doesn’t look to toe out


----------



## gabby5946

no her top line doesnt normally look like that she's on the milk stand and is bending down. I forgot to add this picture. She's not set up the best but this is the best picture I have right now. I will get a better one when I go back out to the goats.


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## gabby5946

And she is a Nubian/Oberhasli recorded grade. She is also only a year and 2 months. When we bought her, we did not know she got pregnant when some of there does got into the buck pen. Also in this picture she is pretty much completely milked out.


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## deerbunnyfarm

Good udder but not good conformation. Topline is pretty bad, Roach back, steep rump, her back legs look funny to me but I can't pinpoint it, no brisket.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

In the picture her legs are too far out. She'd have a better brisket if she was set up right. I like her neck and wedge, though.


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Petra490's doeling Molly -
> 
> Pros -
> Good rear width
> Good space between front legs
> Straight front legs
> Strong front legs
> Short pasterns
> Strong pasterns
> Good nubi ears
> okay brisket
> Okay topline for a kid
> Well angled back legs
> Tight toes
> Smooth withers
> High withers
> Long neck
> Dairy neck
> Well blended from neck to withers
> Well blended from neck to shoulders
> Well blended from wither to topline
> Well blended from neck to brisket
> Smooth and well assembled front quarters
> 
> Cons -
> Steep rump
> Short canons
> Brisket could be deeper
> Lacks depth
> Neck is a little thick
> Short canons
> Weak chine
> Poor wedge


Thank you!!!:hugs:


----------



## gabby5946

If someone wouldn't mind critiquing her that would be great. I know the pictures on the milk stand apparently looked like she had roach back but that was because she was bending down. Also if someone could explain the correct way to set a goat up that would be great too.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The front legs should be directly under the shoulder. The back legs should be placed so that 1/3 of the udder if in front and 1/3 is in back. Or the hocks should line up with the pins. 
Always take pictures from the goat's level and directly facing their side.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Late, I know :lol:

Bandit, that lovely black Lamancha buck on page 40:

Pros:
-Nice strong muzzle
-Strong jaw
-Throat latch looks fairly clean
-Good neck length
-Neck is dairy, but still masculine 
-Neck blends nicely into withers
-Neck blends nicely into shoulder
-Sharp withers
-Clean withers
-Smooth withers, nicely blending into neck and topline
-Good brisket
-Good shoulder assembly
-Nice tight elbows
-Good chest floor
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in barrel
-Strong chine
-Strong topline
-Long topline
-Good body length
-Nice spring to ribs
-Good body depth
-Nice rump angle
-Hocks and pins line up
-Nice curve to thigh
-Sturdy yet dairy bone pattern
-Long bone pattern
-Uphill
-Good dairy character
-Good breed character
-Clean, refined appearance
-Front legs are placed squarely below shoulder
-Strong front legs
-Strong pasterns
-Nice deep heel
-Strong rear legs
-Strong rear pasterns



Cons:
-Nostrils could be more open 
-Neck could blend a bit more smoothly into brisket
-Rump could be longer
-Hindquarter could have a bit more power
-Thigh area could be smoother, more blended
-Could have a tad more brisket
-Looks to toe out a bit in the rear
-Could have a bit more depth in rear barrel


Okay, Margaret! Get everything I missed


----------



## mommal

"Rowan" Mini Nubian 5th generation.

Please tell me what you think. I may be able to replace him and use another if he's not that great.

I really appreciate your experience!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He's not great looking. His dairy character (mainly neck, topline, rump, and depth) isn't great. I like his withers and back legs, though. 
It looks like he needs a hoof trimming, btw.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

And, for the third time...:hair:
What makes up a good/bad chest floor?


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

You look for depth, width and length of the chest floor.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Thanks! Is it supposed to be a straight line when seen from the side?


----------



## mommal

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> He's not great looking. His dairy character (mainly neck, topline, rump, and depth) isn't great. I like his withers and back legs, though.
> It looks like he needs a hoof trimming, btw.


Thank you. Yes, he absolutely needs a trim. His hooves grow the fastest of all the goats we have and he's the one we look at to schedule by. It has been extremely rainy and we trimmed 6 weeks ago. It'll be done again this weekend.

Thank you so much for giving your opinion on conformation!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow! That's extremely fast.


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## mommal

We live in the bottom of a river valley, so all of ours get long quick. But, this guy's the quickest.


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

LamanchaAcres said:


> View attachment 108884
> 
> 
> If someone could critique My yearling buck bandit, that would be great . Hes shown well, already has a leg and a best in show win. I Dont have very good pictures, this one was at the last show.


I haven't read through the entire thread but the best one I've seen so far
The only thing he is really lacking is body capacity which will
come with age


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## IHEARTGOATS

This is interesting
As soon as I can figure out how to
pics that aren't sideways I'll put some up


----------



## LamanchaAcres

Thank you very much cedar point! The way hes growing, hes showing much promise just like his father. His father was with us just for a couple months and received 2 of his 3 legs as a 2 yr old before we had to cull him for his aggressive behavior.


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## nicolemackenzie

Has anybody been missed?


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## nicolemackenzie

Rowan
Pros
Straight front legs
Masculine
Good breed character
Good general appearance
Nice front end

Cons
Short bodied
Steep rump
Weak chine


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## mommal

nicolemackenzie said:


> Rowan
> Pros
> Straight front legs
> Masculine
> Good breed character
> Good general appearance
> Nice front end
> 
> Cons
> Short bodied
> Steep rump
> Weak chine


Thank you for taking the time to look at him!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

PB Nubian dry yearling
(1y and almost 3 months)


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## Suzanne_Tyler

^^I claim this beauty!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Here ya go...

Pros - 
Good dairy character
Well blended and smooth throughout
Strong topline
Long topline
Level topline
Well blended from topline to withers
Smooth withers
Long neck
Slender neck
Dairy neck
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Good width between front legs
Well blended from neck to withers
Okay blending from neck to brisket
Deep brisket
Well angled back legs
Strong canons
Straight canons
Front legs directly below the shoulders
Fairly uphill stance
Deep muzzle
Good Roman nose
Fairly good Nubi ears
Well blended from neck to shoulders
Good rear width
Tight toes
Smooth shoulders
Goog width between shoulder

Cons - 
Steep rump
Front pasterns slightly weak
Lacks depth
Could have better blending from neck to brisket
withers could be higher and closer to the neck
Withers could be sharper
Ears could be bigger
_Barely_ toes out in front feet
Bottom line of wedge could be better angled (ties into lacking depth)
Hocks and pins don't quite line up
The front line of her neck from the side view could be smoother


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

You're getting good! Congrats


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Thank you!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Thanks for doing her


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

You're welcome


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## margaret

Bandit-He's nice, should look really good in a few years!!
Cons:
-rump is a tad short
-could be a bit smoother in the brisket
-Thurls should be set a bit farther back
-Toes could be tighter
-Lacks depth in the barrel.... however, he’s young, that should come with age
-Slight toe out in rear
-Neck could be a bit more slender
~Cannons could be stronger
~Cannons could be straighter

Pros:
-long, dairy neck (for a buck)
-muscular and well built, yet still dairy and angular
-neck blends well into the withers
-Neck blends well into the shoulders
-smooth, clean front end assembly
-clean withers
-Smooth withers
-Sharp withers
-Nice and tall at the withers
-Upstanding
-OK length of body, could be better
-long, smooth topline
-Strong topline
-Level topline
-Smooth blending of chine/loin
-Strong, straight loin
-Strong chine
-nice slope to rump
-fairly well angulated rear legs
-strong rear legs
-Squarely set rear legs
-strong rear pasterns
-doesn’t look to toe out in front
-Strong, straight front legs
-Good depth of heart girth
-Good depth of chest
-Good extension of brisket


----------



## margaret

And I think, once upon a time, maybe a very long time ago I said I would do Hazel, that pretty Nubian doeling.

Cons:
-would like to see her neck blend better into the shoulder
-neck is a little short
-neck could be more dairy
-neck could be more lean and slender
-could be higher at the withers
-should be more upstanding
-would like her withers to be higher
-withers could be sharper
-smoother front end assembly, especially in the shoulders
-rear legs are a tad posty
-rump is a bit short
-ears could be a bit more pendulous

Pros:
-fairly angular throughout
-good dairy character
-good depth of heart girth
-good depth of barrel for her age
-good body capacity
-smooth topline
-long topline
-good length of body
-strong topline
-level topline
-fairly level rump(for a Nubian)
-chine/loin smoothly blended
-strong, wide loin
-strong chine
-smooth, straight chine
-nice rear leg set
-strong rear pasterns
-well spaced, squarely set rear legs
-good width between hocks
-hocks parallel with pins
-good breed character
-Roman nose
-shoulders blend smoothly into barrel
-strong rear pasterns
-strong front legs
-straight front legs
-straight cannons
-strong cannons


----------



## margaret

I'm in the process of doing some critiques for Viktoria's doe kids that she posted a while back. Anyone want to do Dove?








She went Reserve Grand in the District III Alpine Specialty a few weeks ago.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Claimed!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Anyone want to do Dahlie? This is her last year. One of the first goats I bred  She's Ebony's out of Jenny.


----------



## margaret

Claimed


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Have we missed any goats?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Guess I'll be going through the thread tonight looking for 'undone' goats :lol: Will make a list.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Kelsie, do you still have those doelings you posted waaaay back on pages 14/15? If so, it would be neat to see them!

Basil: page 10 page #93
Patches: page 29 post #279
Doelings #1 & #4 of Viktoria's goats page 32 post 314
Nubian buckling: page 33 post 328

Rowan, page 43 post 425, could be done again. 
And Gabby5946 has a doe listed on page 43 as well, post 422, who never got a good critique.

Then of course Dove ('m finally doing her :lol: Looked through the entire thread and she never, ever got done as was posted twice  This is her third!)
And Dahlie who Margaret claimed.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Yay! Thank you Megan! :leap:


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Basil.. I already did her once, but I wasn't so good then 

Pros - 
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns
Fairly upright pasterns
Good depth
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topline
Broad forehead
Deep muzzle
Good profile
Sharp withers
Smooth withers
High withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Nice wedge
Looks to have good blending from neck to brisket
Okay back legs - they aren't too squaty or posty
Well angled rump
Medium length of neck ( it too bad but not great either)
Okay brisket
Fairly tight elbows
Okay length of body (for a Nigi cross)

Cons - 
Thick neck
Short rump (I think her tail might could start coming up a litter further down her rump) 
Short neck
Short canons
Nostrils could be larger
Could stand more upright (it'd help if she was set up)
Weak canons


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## deerbunnyfarm

Thanks Suzanne!! It's so weird looking back on those pictures, she looks so different now. I will say that I love a lot about her but wish she had more brisket, wish her topline was better, wish her rump wasn't steep... The thing that bothers me most is that she toes out. She does have a short neck but I kind of think I like that in a lamancha cross, probably just me but it looks mancha to me. Lol! Here's an updated picture not for critique but just to show how she has matured.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

You're right, she looks very different! 
And I even saw that she toed out, and made mental note to put that in my critique. Lol.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

She's beautiful!


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Rowan - 

Pros - 
Well angled back legs
Smooth withers
Sharp withers
High withers
Overall very masculine
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Pretty good ears, considering he's a mini
Good Roman nose
Smooth shoulder
Okay brisket
Okay depth
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Well blended from neck to shoulders
Okay blending from neck to brisket
Long neck
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Upright pasterns
Okay length in body (seeing as he's part ND, it's actually not bad)
Tight elbows
Doesn't toe out

Cons -
Steep rump
Thick neck
Weak chine
Short canons
Rump higher than withers (his front legs could be longer)
Lack brisket
Poor wedge
Could have better blending from neck to brisket
Could be deeper
There's something about his face that I don't like but can't put a name on :chin: Hmm..... I think his face is too short and his poll could be smoother


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Here's my new girl, Mia, posed! She's a registered Nubian. And I am POSITIVE that the grass grew about 5 inches between when we took her there and the pictures :lol: 

Her udder floor is more level then what the picture shows


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Mia - 

Pros - 
Beautiful coat
Well blended throughout
Outstanding dairy character
Perfect wedge
Lovely withers
Sharp withers
Smooth withers
High and prominent withers
Long body
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topline
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Well blended from neck to brisket
Okay depth
Deep brisket
Long neck
Dairy neck
Feminine neck
Slender neck
Okay rump
Good profile
Deep muzzle
Well angled upper half of back legs 
Looks like strong and straight front legs
Can't quite tell, but her rear width looks pretty good

Cons - 
Slightly steep rump
Elbows could be tighter
Could be a little bit deeper
Blending from neck to shoulder could be better
Cow hocks
Nubi ears could be better

I'm having trouble finding faults on this girl :chin: She's beautiful!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thank you! Here's a picture showing her ears a bit better


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Margaret, wanna try?


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## margaret

Ugh. I should, shouldn't I?:lol:

Maybe in a little, if I have time.


----------



## margaret

She is a very pretty doe! The main thing I dislike about her is her rear legs, other than that, hard to fault.
I'll try to get around to her soon.


----------



## margaret

Viktoria's first doeling.
Cons:
Toes out in front
Slight toe out in front
Hocks tend to want to turn in
Could be more squarely set on her rear legs
Could use more brisket
More width between hocks
Could be a little straighter in the front legs
Rump could be more level
Front pasterns could be stronger
Could be a tad deeper in the barrel

Pros-
Long neck
Lean neck
Dairy Neck
Clean throat junction
Neck blends smoothly into withers
Neck blends smoothly into shoulder
Neck Blends smoothly into brisket
Clean withers
Smooth withers
Sharp withers
Nice height at withers
Upstanding
Taller at withers than hips
Good dairy character
Angular and sharp 
Long bodied
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Strong chine
Smoothly blended from the chine into the loin
Smooth topline
Well angulated rear legs
Hocks line up nicely with pins
Strong rear legs
Strong rear pasterns
Tight toes
Fair depth of heart girth for her age
OK Body capacity


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Yes, you should :lol: What do not like about her back legs?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I think the shadow in the last pic you posted is throwing off the symmetry and making her look posty and skimpy.


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## Cedar Point Kikos

Probably, all the darker spots on her are shadows


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Here's an update pic of Pinky. Not to critique, just an update


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Dairy Goat's doeling, #4, Snowshoe

Pros - 
Lovely coloring
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Well angled rear legs
Good dairy character
Long neck
Feminine neck
Dairy neck
Slender neck
Justly wonderful neck 
Doesn't toe out
Smooth withers
Sharp withers
Fairly high withers
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Well blended from neck to brisket
Okay strength and width to front legs
Deep muzzle
Okay depth
Good poll
Good profile
Long body

Cons - 
Steep rump
Lacks brisket
Lacks depth
Weak pasterns
Long pasterns
Wedge could be better
Withers could be higher and more prominent
Could have better rear width (?)
Short canons
Shoulder might could be a tad smoother
Short face

Okay, quick question...
What would that coloring be called? Two tone gray chamoisee? Can Alps even be that color? I have a buckling with similar coloring, he's a ND/Alpine cross, and since I'd never heard of or seen the coloring before, I figured he just didn't conform to the breed standard.


----------



## margaret

She looks good:thumbup:


----------



## margaret

I believe Snowshoe would be a broken chamoisee.


----------



## margaret

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Yes, you should :lol: What do not like about her back legs?


She turns in at the hock, and her hocks are a tad too far back, they don't lineup with her pins. And in the first set of pics at least, she has too much angulation.


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## margaret

Someone want do do Swamp? FF Yearling, freshened late April. Pics are from May.

























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Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## margaret

Chablis, Doeling #2
Cons:
•	Don’t like her front end
•	Should be sharper in the withers
•	Should be smoother in the withers
•	Could be a little higher at the withers
•	Blends unevenly from the shoulders into the withers
•	Blends unevenly from the neck into the shoulder
•	Rump is a tad steep
•	Hocks don’t line up with pins
•	Thurls could be farther back
•	Front pasterns could be stronger
•	Could use more width between hocks
•	Very, very slight toe out in front
•	Smoother in the neck and chest when viewed from the front

Pros
•	Long neck
•	Lean neck
•	Dairy neck
•	Upstanding
•	Angular
•	Good dairy character
•	Fair depth of heart girth
•	Good depth of barrel
•	Long bodied
•	Long topline
•	Level topline
•	Strong topline
•	Smooth topline
•	Strong chine
•	Smooth blending of chine/loin
•	Long rump
•	Well angulated rear legs (if you imagine what they look like under the hair)
•	Strong rear legs
•	Well set rear legs
•	Strong rear pasterns
•	Good width between hips
•	Good width between pins
•	Good width throughout
•	Wide Rump
•	No toe out in rear
•	Straight rear legs
•	Straight front legs
•	Good width in chest


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Swamp - 

Pros - 
Beautiful wedge
Good depth
Okay length of topline
Okay depth to topline
Smooth withers
Deep brisket
Deep muzzle
Long neck
Fairly slender neck
Smooth withers
Well blended from withers to topline
Okay strength to pasterns
Fairly up right pasterns
Good profile
Okay back legs
Okay blending from neck to withers
Okay blending from neck to brisket
Looks to have good rear width
Good dairy character
Upright
Long body

Cons - 
Slightly weak pasterns
Just a tad weak in the chine and loin
Withers could be sharper
Withers could be higher
Neck could be more graceful
Hocks don't line up with pins
Shoulders could be smoother
Cheek muscle isn't smooth
Steep rump
Short canons
Long pasterns
Blending from neck to withers, shoulders, and brisket could all be smoother
Weak front legs


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Another question..
Is there a name for the section of rear leg, hock and up?


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## Cedar Point Kikos

I believe it's called the thigh  So we would say "nice curve to the thigh" and that would be that area.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Okay, thanks! I think I should have known that :lol:


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## margaret

Dahlie:

Cons:

•	Long Pasterns
•	Weak pasterns
•	Looks like she toes out a bit in the rear
•	Neck is a little chubby
•	Could be longer in the neck
•	Would like to see a better curve to her thigh
•	Rear legs could use better angulation
•	A little narrow in the chest
•	Would like to see more width between the front legs
•	Face is a bit short
•	Jaw and muzzle could be broader and stronger
•	Slight ewe neck
•	Could use more depth of barrel
•	Short rump
•	Smoother neck line

Pros

•	Clean throat latch
•	Neck blends smoothly into head
•	Smooth withers
•	Clean withers
•	Sharp withers
•	Neck blends well into brisket
•	OK extension of brisket
•	Neck blends well into shoulders
•	Overall, well blended front end assembly
•	OK depth to heart girth
•	Good dairy character
•	Sharp and angular throughout
•	Long bodied
•	Long topline
•	Strong topline
•	Smooth topline
•	Level topline
•	Strong chine
•	Smooth chine/loin
•	Level rump
•	Strong rear legs
•	Strong front legs
•	Straight front legs
•	Doesn’t appear to toe out in front
•	Nice tight toes in front
•	Tight toes in rear
•	Strong, straight cannons
•	Hocks line up nicely with pins
•	Thurls well set
•	Strong hocks
•	Straight hocks
•	Doesn’t appear to turn in at the hocks


----------



## Dairy_goat

Thanks Suzanne and Margaret! I have not been on tgs for a while! Margaret-how do you get your doelings and bucklings to grow that fast?!


----------



## margaret

Free choice everything! As much milk, grain and hay as they will eat for the first 18 weeks of their lives, and 2 lbs of grain a day after that. They grow like weeds! I weighed a 5 mo kid the other day, my weigh sling wasn't even big enough to get her completely off the ground and I saw the scale hit 70!


----------



## Emzi00

Anyone want to do Winnie? FF 2 year old. Udder pictures were when she was about a month fresh.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

She's a beauty!


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

Winnie is very nice


----------



## margaret

Oh wow Emma, she looks awesome all clipped down!
I claim her


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## Cedar Point Kikos

All my good intentions of critiquing Dove this week went down the drain :lol:

Picking up my ND buckling tomorrow! Yay for a 4 hour drive each way :lol:


----------



## groovyoldlady

Winnie looks like a winner to me. Long, deep body. Nice topline. Great brisket and rear legs. Very graceful and dairy looking. Her udder could be more smoothly blended in the front - but that may come with further kiddings.

All in all she's GORGEOUS!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Winnie is a lovely girl. Here are my brief thoughts while.

Pros
Nice general appearance
Long
Mostly level
Long lean neck that blends nicely into the chest
Strong muzzle
Good rear leg angulation
Nice udder shape
Strong medial suspensory ligament 
Good teat size and placement. 

Cons
Rump could be longer and more level blending more smoothly into rest of back
Looks a little loose at elbow. 
Needs higher and wider rear udder.
Could be a little more smooth in the fore udder
Front pasterns could be stronger but maybe the color of her legs is making it hard to see.
Tighter toes


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

My latest acquisition :lol: Knotty Ash Finch, registered Nigerian Dwarf buckling, 10 weeks old. He looks better set up...he's gorgeous and has a great personality!


----------



## ksalvagno

He sure is cute!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He's adorable!  He has a pretty good topline for a ND at that age


----------



## goatygirl

Banjo. 8 weeks


----------



## NewbieNubian

Thoughts on this Lamancha buckling. Born May 8th. Pictures were taken two weeks ago.


----------



## margaret

I claim the lamancha
And yes I will get around to him and Winnie soon!


----------



## Bree_6293

any one want to try bonie? she is now 3 months but this was at 1 month old.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I claim Banjo!


----------



## margaret

Winnie~

Cons:
•	Slightly ewe necked
•	Neckline could be smoother
•	Would like to see her smoother in the brisket
•	Front legs too close together
•	Front legs look to point in a bit
•	More width in the chest
•	Should be deeper in the heart girth
•	Body capacity could be better
•	Hocks are just a little too far back
•	Hocks don’t line up with pins
•	Rear leg angle could be better
•	Rear legs could be stronger, and more squarely set
•	Pasterns are too long
•	Rump should be longer, in comparison to the rest of her.
•	Rear legs could be straighter
•	Front legs could be straighter
Pros:
•	Long neck
•	Lean neck
•	Dairy Neck
•	Slender neck
•	Neck blends well into the shoulders
•	Sharp withers
•	Smooth withers
•	Good height at the withers
•	Upstanding
•	Uphill from hips to withers
•	Clean withers
•	Withers blend well into shoulders
•	Heart girth blends well into barrel
•	Fairly good depth to barrel
•	Very long bodied
•	Long topline
•	Long chine
•	Long loin
•	Strong, straight, wide loin
•	Strong chine
•	Smooth topline
•	Straight topline
•	Strong topline
•	Chine blends well into loin
•	Loin blends well into rump
•	Well angled rump
•	Excellent dairy character throughout
•	Well angulated rear legs
•	Sharp and open throughout
•	Dairy and angular throughout
•	Strong pasterns, though they will probably break down over time, being so long
• OK length of rump
•	Good width between hocks
•	Hocks don’t turn in
•	Straight hocks
•	OK width to rump
•	OK width to hips
•	OK width to pins
Udder
Cons:
•	Could use a bit more capacity
•	More depth in fore udder
•	Udder floor could be more level
•	Longer fore udder 
•	More extension to fore udder
•	Udder shape could be smoother in side profile
Pros
•	Lovely rear udder arch
•	Nice rear udder height
•	Nice udder shape when viewed from rear
•	Even halves
•	Centrally placed teats
•	Strong medial
•	Well defined medial
•	Strong rear attachments
•	Attachments are nice and tight

Beautiful doe Emma She's got a nice udder on her. I think she'll be really nice in a few years!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Heres Hallie


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow, she's extremely upright!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'm going to try to do this a different way.  

For Banjo - 

Topline - 
Pretty good for a ND. Okay length, nice and level. Slightly weak chine, not quite sure on that though.

Withers - 
Smooth and sharp. Very nice. Might could be a little higher, closer to the neck. Well blended into neck and into topline.

Rump - 
Very steep, like most NDs.

Neck - 
Could be much more slender. Okay length, though it could be longer. Blends well into withers. Blending into brisket isn't quite so smooth, but it's not that bad at all. Could also be smoother from neck to shoulder. 

Head/face - 
Can't really tell because he's eating, but I like what I can see of his profile and muzzle depth. Dished profiles may be cute, but I don't like a goat with a dished face, even though NDs can technically be either. Looks like his face is a little short, but like I said, hard to tell.

Depth/stomach area - 
He looks pretty good on depth. He's got something one of my doelings had this year, when the stomach is sorta pinched up near the rear legs. Not sure what its called. It'll probably correct itself as time goes on.

Front legs - 
A little stocky. Straight and strong.

Back legs - 
Good length and curve to the thigh. Canons are strong and straight, but a little short.

Pasterns/hooves - 
He toes out in all four feet. Good rear pasterns, strong, short, upright. The front ones are a little weak. Nice tight toes.

Shoulders - 
It's hard to tell because of all the fluff, but looks like his shoulder could be smoother.

Brisket - 
Lacks depth. Not the worst ever, but still pretty bad. It'll probably get deeper as he gets older.

Comments - 
He lacks dairy character, but I supposed it's to be expected as he is a ND, and young also.

Omigosh! Is Banjo a buck or doe????? :faint:


----------



## margaret

OK, Hallie is ALLLL MINE!!!:lol:


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

:lol:


----------



## nicolemackenzie

margaret said:


> OK, Hallie is ALLLL MINE!!!:lol:


Hehe she is a beauty.


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

And Margret, you're saying that about a LaMancha! :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

And doesn't Margaret dislike Lamanchas? :lol: The no ear thing I think....


----------



## NewbieNubian

She jumped on doing my Lamancha buckling pretty quick too. Lol


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

She does lol!

We must have some pretty snazzy ones then  :lol:


----------



## NewbieNubian

I think mine are pretty snazzy. Haha. But I'm biased.


----------



## Dairy_goat

J.O.Y. Farm said:


> Heres Hallie
> 
> View attachment 109548
> View attachment 109549
> View attachment 109550


 She is Lovely!! :stars: How much is she producing?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Hahah!! Yeah, I am too  

She's milking a little over a gallon a day  she and my South-Fork doe are my best milkers!


----------



## margaret

Lol, yes, I do dislike Lamanchas:lol: Can't stand the ears:ROFL: But yours are very pretty!


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Why thank you  lol!


----------



## Tazzyboy5

Here is a yearling milking doe that I will be exhibiting at the MN State fair this year. What are your thoughts on her?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

^^ Claimed!!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

I know she's claimed for a full critique, but I know I like multiple thoughts...so here's my two cents;

Pros;
Long lean neck that blends nicely into her brisket
Long bodied
Dairy
Uphill 
Generally I like her front end and overall style
Globular shaped udder
Ok rear udder width

Cons
Lacks overall strength and depth ( depth should improve as she ages)
Steep and short rump - I don't like the rounded angle to the rump
Low rear udder
Legs seem a little weak


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm soooo behind on doing Dove :lol: Plus this poor thread has died, so I'm giving it a kick start again 

Dove:

Pros:
-Clean straight profile
-Good neck length
-Good brisket
-Sharp withers
-Clean withers
-Smooth withers
-Good blending brisket to shoulder
-Good blending neck to withers
-Good blending neck to shoulder
-Good chest floor
-Good shoulder assembly
-Front legs placed squarely below shoulder
-Clean front legs
-Strong front legs
-Strong fore pasterns
-Smooth blending shoulder to barrel
-Good depth in heart girth
-Good depth in barrel
-Strong chine
-Strong topline
-Long topline
-Good body capacity
-Good rump length
-Good rump angle
-Looks to have nice width in chest
-Looks to have nice width between hocks
-Nice incurve to thigh
-Fine bone pattern
-Good dairy character
-Uphill
-Refined
-Clean appearance


Cons:
-Muzzle could be a bit more open
-Throat latch could be cleaner
-Neck could be a bit more refined 
-Toes out in fore
-Could have tighter toes
-Could have more depth in heels


Pretty girl, a straight on picture would help and so would a 'critique-y' mood :lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Tazzyboy5's doe - 

Pros - 
Long topline
Strong topline
Level topljne
Good wedge
Very dairy
Good general appearance
Long neck 
Dairy neck
Slender neck
Feminine neck
Okay brisket
Good blending from neck to brisket
Sharp withers
Withers well blended into topline
High and prominent withers
Deep muzzle
Smooth shoulder
Well blended from neck to shoulder
Fairly strong pasterns

Cons - 
Lacks depth
Brisket could be bigger
Withers could have better blending into neck
Short canons
Spindly weak canons
Slightly posty 
Short rump
Steep rump
Long pasterns
Slightly weak pasterns
Large head
Lumpy profile
Cheek muscle could be smoother
Nostrils could be better defined


Udder - 

Pros - 
Good capacity for a yearling
Nice shape
Good rear attachments
Held nice and high
Teats point forward to the perfect degree

Cons - 
Uneven udders
Uneven medial
Weak medial
Teats too close to legs
Bulbous teats


----------



## Bree_6293

Can anyone do this boy from this photo? Unfortunately I won't be able to get better photos until he arrives in a few weeks. In this photo he is 2 days old


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

It's tough to give an accurate critique when they're so young, but he has a nice topline and rear legs  Post more pics when he's older! 

Anybody wanna do Dontcha?


----------



## NewbieNubian

NewbieNubian said:


> Thoughts on this Lamancha buckling. Born May 8th. Pictures were taken two weeks ago.


Still waiting on a critique on this young fellow. Really looking for advice; want to know if he's one that might be worth keeping over for the winter or not if he doesn't sell.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Pros
Growthy 
Strength of bone
Straight front legs
Wide
Long rump
Upstanding

Cons
I dislike his front end
Needs better blending in front end.
Loose elbows
Needs more depth to the brisket
Maybe too much rear leg angulation but he may grow into that
Could be higher in the escutcheon


----------



## margaret

NewbieNubian said:


> Still waiting on a critique on this young fellow. Really looking for advice; want to know if he's one that might be worth keeping over for the winter or not if he doesn't sell.


Sorry! I'll do him when I get a chance!!


----------



## Roasted_Peanuts

This is Quinn would love to hear your critiques thanks


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Quinn - 

Pros - 
Deep brisket
Okay topline
Good width between eyes
Good width between front legs
Lovely coloring
Strong pasterns
Upright pasterns
Short pasterns
Strong canons
Straight canons
Well blended from neck to brisket
Smooth withers
Well angled rear legs
Sweet lil face
Okay rear width
Okay length to body
Nice tight toes
Could have a better wedge, more angle to the bottom line and straight along the top line

Cons - 
Toes out
Roached loin
Steep rump
Thick neck
Short neck
Withers could be higher
Withers could be sharper
Barely cow hocks
Short canons
Front legs could be straighter
Lacks good dairy character
Curve around outside edge of thigh could be smoother
Teats wing out


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Quinn is a adorable! Her face/expression looks like my one doe, Aellie's  Any relation to Pecan?Save​


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

You mean my goat Pecan??


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Hehe, they look alike! Didn't realize Pecan wasn't her's, Suzanne


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

This goat??
Lol, I guess it's possible.
Roasted peanuts, what state do you live in and what is Quinn's full name?


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Yup! Lol :lol:


----------



## Roasted_Peanuts

I am in NY. Quinn doesn't have a full name yet as I still haven't picked a herd name her dam is Bear Run Mocka Cone who is out of Weather top farm Snocone and Firefly stream Nutmeg


----------



## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do Chablis? She has matured a bit more since last critique.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Roasted_Peanuts said:


> I am in NY. Quinn doesn't have a full name yet as I still haven't picked a herd name her dam is Bear Run Mocka Cone who is out of Weather top farm Snocone and Firefly stream Nutmeg


Okay, thanks.

Megan, no relation to Pecan


----------



## margaret

For the little lamancha I buckling I said I'd do.
Cons:
~throat junction could be cleaner
~neck could be leaner at the top
~toes out in front
~lacking depth in barrel
~lacking by capacity 
~to much angulation in rear legs
~hocks dn't line up with pins
~hocks too far back
~could be stronger in the rear legs
~hocks turn in slightly
~needs more width in hocks
~rump could be more level
~could be smoother in the brisket

Pros:
~long neck
~lean neck
~angular
~very dairy through out
~sharp withers
~smooth withers
~clean withers
~smoothly blended from the withers into the neck
~long body
~smoothly blended body
~long topline
~smooth topline
~strong topline
~level topline
~ok length of rump
~rump angle isn't too bad
~good width of body
~good width of rump
~fairly strong rear patterns
~tight toes in rear

He's a fairly nice looking little buck, what's his dam look like?
If his dam and sire are nice, he could end up being a nice herdsire.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Chablis - 

Pros - 
very dairy
good general appearance
long neck
slender neck
strong canons
straight canons
long topline
good depth
okay wedge 
upright pasterns
okay strength to pasterns
strong front legs
nice curve to thigh
smooth withers
well blended from neck to brisket
okay blending from neck to withers
okay levelness to rump
front legs direct beneath shoulder 
fairly good rear leg angulation overall

Cons -
ewe necked
head and face could be more refined
short canons
weak brisket
wither could be sharper
toes out 
blending from wither to topline could be better
slightly weak chine
barely roached back
hocks don't line up with pins
the place where the hock and canon connect (I'm positive there's a name for it :hammer is too far back
lacks depth in barrel
shoulder could be smoother


----------



## NewbieNubian

margaret said:


> For the little lamancha I buckling I said I'd do.
> 
> He's a fairly nice looking little buck, what's his dam look like?
> If his dam and sire are nice, he could end up being a nice herdsire.


Thanks for the critique Margaret. Here are pics of his sire and dam, both at around 15 months old, give or take. Some of his genetics are Mint*Leaf and Altrece on his dam's side and Heart Mountain and Tempo on his sire's side. I don't have any full udder pics from his dam unfortunately.


----------



## billiejw89

can someone critique my doeling? please and thank you.

LittleAnnsBR Shooting Star *Starla*

Sire - All Country Ace
Dam - SnR's Waltzn Royal Rebel Pants


----------



## Bree_6293

Can some one critique this boy? He is an Australian mini goat but can he be critiqued along the same lines as a dairy?
First photo 3 weeks old









Second photo 7 weeks old








He has shown really well so far with 3 champion kids from 3 shows and I was really hoping he is good enough to keep a buck.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'm a little out of practice, so this might be a tad short 

Starla - 

Pros - 
Good depth
slender neck
Strong canons
Straight canons
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Upright pasterns 
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Nice curve to thigh
Okay topline
Sweet face
Good wedge

Cons - 
Lacks brisket
Roach back
Steep rump
Hocks don't lines up with pins
Dished face (this actually isn't considered bad in the Nigerian Dwarf breed, but I still don't like it)
Short face
Short neck
Low withers


----------



## billiejw89

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> I'm a little out of practice, so this might be a tad short
> 
> Starla -
> 
> Pros -
> Good depth
> slender neck
> Strong canons
> Straight canons
> Strong pasterns
> Short pasterns
> Upright pasterns
> Strong front legs
> Straight front legs
> Nice curve to thigh
> Okay topline
> Sweet face
> Good wedge
> 
> Cons -
> Lacks brisket
> Roach back
> Steep rump
> Hocks don't lines up with pins
> Dished face (this actually isn't considered bad in the Nigerian Dwarf breed, but I still don't like it)
> Short face
> Short neck
> Low withers


could you explain roach back? sorry, im very new to this lol


----------



## CrazyDogLady

Roach back is where the back is hunched up, not straight across.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Yep, when the back curves upward especially in the loin area. Often seen with a weak chine and steep rump.


----------



## Petra490

Anyone feels like critiquing Domino again? She has grown a lot since last time. At 17 months she is already taller than my adult doe.
I can see a lot of her pros and cons myself, but I'd still appreciate the critique.
I love this thread. I don't post, but I really enjoy reading the critiques. I learned a lot. 
I have to post two pictures as she twisted her face at the first one to eat an animal cracker. She acted like a lunatic without the treat, but her face was visible. I was trying to get her squared, but the pictures are still at a slight angle, making her body look shorter than it is, her ears longer and her head bigger; sorry about that.
Thank you!


----------



## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do my jr. buck?


----------



## margaret

Viktorias buckling.
Cons:
-	Slightly weak in the rear legs
-	Thurls could be set farther back
-	Rump could be longer
-	Smoother brisket
-	Shoulder should blend smoother into the brisket
-	Overall could be more smoothly put together
-	Shoulder assembly should be blended more smoothly
-	Narrow rump
-	Front pasterns could be better
-	Smoother topline
-	Could be more open in the escutcheon 
Pros:
-	Long neck
-	Lean neck
-	Dairy neck
-	Strong jaw
-	Wide jaw
-	Clean cut, well sculpted nostrils
-	Clean throat latch
-	Strong front legs
-	Straight front legs
-	OK depth of barrel
-	Good depth of heart girth
-	Good length of body
-	Long topline
-	Strong topline
-	Level topline
-	Rump is pretty good, could be a bit more level
-	Strong rear pasterns
-	Good width between hocks
-	Doesn’t turn in at the hocks
-	No toe out in front
-	No toe out in rear
-	Good width between front legs
-	Straight hocks
-	Good extension of brisket 
That was kind of short, but there you go


----------



## Dairy_goat

Thanks Margaret for critiquing my buckling!


----------



## Emzi00

Anybody wanna judge a group of doe kids?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Well, where are the pics??


----------



## CrazyDogLady

Well, here's my Cookie Babies I'm taking for my first show next month. They're about six mos old in these pics. What do you guys think? Lottie is first, then Ginger, then Biscuit and Nicky. I am so curious what my feedback will be from the judge.


----------



## Emzi00

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Well, where are the pics??

















First two born March 23rd







April 4th














April 18th


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The dark grey belted/broken doe - 

Pros - 
Long neck
Slender neck
Feminine neck
Dairy neck
Okay height to withers
Sharp withers
Withers well blended into topline
Withers well blended into neck
Level topline
Strong topline
Strong front legs
Fairly good depth
Strong canons
Straight canons
Nicely curving thigh
Hocks line up with pins
Okay brisket
Deep muzzle
Fairly good wedge
Neck smoothly blended into brisket
Good profile
Smooth shoulder
Well defined nostrils 

Cons - 
Weak pasterns
Short face
Short body
Brisket could be deeper
Short rump
Could have better bleeding from neck to shoulder
Front legs not beneath the shoulder
Loose elbows
Short canons
Lacks depth
line of back leg on the side near the front legs could be smoother


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Lottie. It's a little hard because of the fluff 

Pros - 
slender neck
okay depth
good wedge
nice withers
strong canons
withers well blended into topline
fairly level topline
hocks in line with pins
deep muzzle 
neck well blended into brisket
straight profile

Cons - 
weak pasterns
short rump
steep rump
short canons
posty legs
steep rump
short rump
front legs not directly beneath the shoulder
topline could be smoother
lacks brisket


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

The chamoisee doe - 

Pros - 
good dairy character
long and level throughout 
long neck
slender neck
good brisket
long topline 
level topline
strong topline
good wedge
okay front pasterns
smooth withers
okay hight to withers
neck well blended into withers
withers well blended into topline
strong canons
long canons 
straight canons
canons in line with pins
nice curve to thigh
overall lovely rear legs - except the pasterns 
good depth
straight profile
deep muzzle
okay length to face


Cons - 
ewe neck
weak rear pasterns
toes out slightly (?)
front legs could be smoother
neck could be more smoothly blended into brisket
brisket lacks depth (though she should gain a good bit as she matures)
just barely weak chine
withers could be sharper


----------



## CrazyDogLady

And I now understand why some people don't like the flashy goats with splotches of color. Those black spots on the back of her legs make her look even postier.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Yeah, sometimes the spots can really throw you off.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ok, Emma finally on the computer, hold on a minute longer! :lol: Spoiler alert, your black does are your best ones :lol: I would sell your april 18th twins.....


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Broken Black (whom I believe you stole the name on.... :lol: Is she Indigo? )

Cons:
Bit of a steep rump
Could be slightly longer bodied
Needs some better blending from the neck to the withers
Could use some tighter/stronger rear pasterns 
Could have a more shapely jaw
Good brisket, but could use more


Pros:
Overall, she is my favorite of your doe kids
Great uphill stance
Nice strong, smooth and level topline
Strong chine
Sharp withers
Very dairy, feminine neck
Decent neck length, longer would be better, but she is still very proportionate and dairy
Straight front legs
Strong front pasterns
Short front pasterns
Tight elbows
Smooth point of shoulder
Nice front end assembly
Possesses power and charge of her overall presence 
Excellent blending overall, except for the neck/withers
Toes point straight ahead, not seeing toe out
Great rear leg set, might be a touch too angular, but she's pretty good
Nice rump length
Very nice blending into the brisket
Deep heart girth
Excellent blending from the brisket to the chest floor, chest floor to girth and girth to barrel 
Great depth for her age, she will be a nice, deep doe
She looks generally wide and open all around
Nice capacity
Tail set looks good
Thurls look good
I like her front feet shape, back ones are ok
Nice dairy character
Nice and feminine
Doesn't have a pterodactyl head, so that is a plus :lol:
Overall she looks nicely proportioned, she is feminine and flashy, very stylish, looks open and broad, should really bloom into a great doe.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

To expedite the process I'm not doing full critiques on the rest :lol: 

2nd doe:
Everything I said about your first doe, except that she has much longer and very weak rear pasterns, front pasterns are longer and weaker as well, she has a shorter rump and a deeper body. 

3rd doe:
Overall nice doe, would like to see a nicer neck, rump and blending. Seems a little dis-proportioned in the rear end, little small for her body.

4th doe:
Not too much I like about her other than she has good depth. Lacks power and width, steep rump, low withers.

5th doe:
Weak pasterns, no brisket, looks to be lacking power and depth especially in the rear, note how her barrel sucks up in the rear, low withers, steep rump, overall small/frail build, does have good blending.


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

In a nutshell, your first doe is almost completely fabulous, 2nd doe is very good and deeper bodied, 3rd doe is nice, 4th is okay, 5th is just there to be there, eating your hay and not contributing to anything really. 
I would probably buy your 1st doe, would probably buy your 2nd doe if she had better pasterns, not so much with the 3rd doe or 4th and 5th.


----------



## Emzi00

Well you got it right, I'm selling the 5th doe and only hanging onto her sister because I might get some decent kids from her and my Jr buck. 
The broken black is my favorite too, she levels out on the move (and if she isn't being a brat she looks good set up too  ).


----------



## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

I would be really concerned for you if you were keeping the 5th :lol:


----------



## Emzi00

Here's my Jr buck for anyone who wants to do him.  Also just want to note he was throwing an absolute fit while taking pictures, so his neck does actually blend smoothly and his front legs set nicely under his withers which makes his brisket look better too.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Absolutely LOVE that mostly black doe, Emma! (and I don't even like Alpines :lol

And Kristen, pretty girls  Will have to get back to those. Maybe Lacie will do them...? (hint, hint )


----------



## Petra490

I was wondering, are Domino's pictures not good enough? I can try to retake them if needed.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Petra490 said:


> Anyone feels like critiquing Domino again? She has grown a lot since last time. At 17 months she is already taller than my adult doe.
> I can see a lot of her pros and cons myself, but I'd still appreciate the critique.
> I love this thread. I don't post, but I really enjoy reading the critiques. I learned a lot.
> I have to post two pictures as she twisted her face at the first one to eat an animal cracker. She acted like a lunatic without the treat, but her face was visible. I was trying to get her squared, but the pictures are still at a slight angle, making her body look shorter than it is, her ears longer and her head bigger; sorry about that.
> Thank you!


Bump... I'll try to get one done. Hanging out with a sick baby human


----------



## Goatzrule

Ok shes finally mine, so anyone want to judge Maddie?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Hey Kelsie, you can use any of the pictures I sent you of her if you want


----------



## Goatzrule

Thats okay


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Petra490 said:


> I was wondering, are Domino's pictures not good enough? I can try to retake them if needed.


No, they're fine. I'll critique her for ya tonight


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Domino - 

Pros - 
Long neck
Deep brisket
Strong brisket
Strong canons
Straight canons
Well angled rear legs
Long body
Nice depth
Good wedge
Smooth withers
Okay height to withers
Withers well blended into topline
Neck well blended into withers
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Upright pasterns
Good Roman nose
Deep muzzle
Nice larvae, well curving Nubi ears
Strong front legs
Good dairy strength
Slender neck
Okay blending from neck to brisket
Well blended from neck to shoulder
Smooth shoulder
Strong loin
Well blended from loin to rump 
Uphill

Cons -
Short canons
Weak chine
Loose elbow
Steep rump
Short rump
Lacks depth in heart girth
Smoother blending from neck into brisket
Hocks not quite in line with pins
Toes out

She's turning into a lovely doe


----------



## Petra490

Thank you!!!  <3
I appreciate it.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

You're welcome!


----------



## Petra490

I am going to keep you busy. I would love a critique on my son's new goats.
They don't have names yet. Not registered, mini nubians. At least he is hoping so; not sure if the buck doesn't have some boer in him too.
The doe is tiny, about the size of my 7 months old doeling. Very cute. We have been told she is almost 3 years old.
The people that sold her lied about some stuff, so we are not sure how much of what they told us is true. My son didn't really want the buck, but they backed out of the deal when we were supposed to pick her up and wouldn't sell her unless he bought the buck with her. So the plan is to either sell the buck or wether him and keep her.
Sorry about the pictures. I didn't have any helper; I just snapped some over the fence. (I managed to smash my toe, so I'm trying to stay away from animals; seems they are all aiming to step on it.)
If the pictures don't work, please let me know. I will try to get some help.
Here they are:


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Buck ( I personally would have him wethered )
Cons
VERY steep rump
Toes out
Posty
Rump higher than withers
Short bodied

Pros
Good Nubian head for a mini
Masculine
Healthy looking coat and in good condition 
Ok width and depth

Doe
VERY steep rump
Weak legs 
Frail appearance
Narrow
Toes out
Poor breed character 

Pros
Good length
Teat size looks good
I think she has a nice feminine lean neck although her turning makes it look short in the first picture.
Fairly strong muzzle.

I would not breed these two together as they both have steep rumps.


----------



## Petra490

Thank you! I appreciate it!
She has already been bred to him. That's why they are in a pen together. 
I'm not happy they bred her. I wouldn't breed a goat that is so skinny anyway. 
Going to wait and give her Lutalyse after 15 days.


----------



## Goatzrule

Someone do Maddie?


----------



## margaret

I'll do her when I get a chance.


----------



## Petra490

Sorry for so many posts. I hate to be a pain in the butt, but I do need help. 
This ad is on craigslist, so this is the only picture I have. 
I have emailed the owner; waiting for a reply. I asked for test results on CAE/CL also pictures of parents. If that is all good I am thinking of buying her. It would help me greatly to make a decision on the purchase if someone could critique her for me.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

She looks okay, better than both of the other two but not by a lot. She has about the same weaknesses, only not as bad. Fairly level, longer body than the buck.


----------



## Petra490

Thank you for your help! <3


----------



## Bree_6293

Any that haven't been done yet? Would like to work on my critiquing


----------



## Goatzrule

My doe Maddie maybe?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Plus the three NDs a couple pages back. I did one of the four on that post. Then there is Petra's three.


----------



## Bree_6293

Goatzrule said:


> My doe Maddie maybe?


Ok found her and will give it a go


----------



## margaret

Ok here goes Maddie. This might be short, I’m so out of practice lol.
Cons
-	Rather steep rump (although honestly, if her back legs were set better, I don’t think it would look so bad)
-	Could be a little tighter and stronger in the rear pasterns
-	Leaner neck
-	Front legs could be a tad straighter
-	Thurls could be set farther back
-	I think I’m seeing a bit of a tendency to turn in at the hocks
Pros
-	Long neck
-	Dairy neck
-	Clean throat junction (from what I can see)
-	Smoothly blended from the neck into the shoulders
-	Smoothly blended from the neck into the brisket
-	Smoothly blended from the shoulders into the brisket
-	Smoothly blended front end assembly
-	Smoothly blended brisket
-	excellent extension of brisket
-	Good depth of barrel
-	Good depth of heart girth
-	Good body capacity
-	Strong topline
-	Level topline
-	Smooth topline
-	Long topline
-	Long body
-	Good dairy character
-	Good angulation throughout
-	Dairy strength 
-	Smoothly blended throughout
-	Good angulation of rear legs
-	Strong enough rear pasterns
-	Uphill
-	I feel like her hocks would line up nicely with her pins, if her legs were set just a little better
Can’t see much of her udder, so not gonna do that right now…
There, that was embarrassingly short…but whatever, you get the general idea!


----------



## Goatzrule

Thanks for doing here, it was my mom's first time setting up a goat so A for effort. I'll get better pictures eventually


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

She did a good job setting her up for a first time! 
Here is a clipped pic of Maddie too..








And one of her face just cause she's adorable! ;D


----------



## Goatzrule

What's up with her udder it looks like it has a "dent" on the left side


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

She seems to be a tad higher on the one side like I told you, but no judges have commented poorly on it. And it hasn't effected her 'milkablity' or anything, I don't know of her kids nursed more on one side before I pulled them either, I didn't notice that though...


----------



## Goatzrule

How many times have you shown her in milk?


----------



## J.O.Y. Farm

Multiple times last year as an FF, and only once as a SF


----------



## Bree_6293

Want an opinion on this young boy please. Australian miniature. 3 weeks old. Just a basic opinion is fine on him of his pros and cons.
Thanks


----------



## lazjfarm

I'm a Nubin person but right off I would say to young to tell ,4mos.old before I judge mine but again I also include the buck and doe they come from


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Bree, is he the one we all liked on your other thread?


----------



## Bree_6293

Yes he is. I can wait until he is older to decide so will see how he goes and revisit in a few months. I bred the 4 boys and trying to decide which to keep. Will be the first Buck of my breeding I will keep. I'm happy to grow them on for a while and see how they go


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He's very nice. Good width, depth, length, strength, and a level topline. Strong and straight legs. He toes out though. And his neck is a little bit short and chubby :laugh:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Kristen's doe Ginger - 

Pros - 
Long body
Okay depth
Deep muzzle
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Straight front legs
Well blended from withers to topline
Okay wedge
Okay length to face
Blue eyes

Cons - 
Lacks brisket
Short rump
Steep rump
Posty
Hock turn out
Toes out in all legs
Weak pasterns
Short neck
Thick neck


----------



## Lovemynubians74

Titan 7 month old reg Buck Redwood Hills


----------



## Lovemynubians74

His sire


----------



## Lovemynubians74

Would anyone be interested in critiquing my buck?


----------



## Bree_6293

I can try and critique him a little later


----------



## Lovemynubians74

Great! Thank you


----------



## Bree_6293

Ok here is my attempt. I have never done a Nubian before so hopefully some one else corrects anything I have wrong-
Pros:
Good brisket
Nice defined neck
Good blending neck- wither
Good back leg placement
Good back leg width 
Good depth of body
Nice straight front legs
Correct Nubian head and ears
Nice chest floor and width
Good wither

Cons:
Slight roach back?
Slight toe out in back legs
Rump is a bit steep.


----------



## Lovemynubians74

Thank you!


----------



## Petra490

I'm planning to buy this 2016 doeling. Can anyone critique her for me please.
I can see the most obvious pros and cons, but would like a little more in depth critique, in case I am missing something. 
These are the only two pictures the seller sent. Hope it's enough.
Thank you!!!


----------



## margaret

For the Nubian doeling-Not the longest critique ever, but you get the general idea.
She's pretty!!
Cons:
•	Could use more depth of barrel
•	More body capacity
•	Longer rump
•	More brisket

Pros:
•	Long neck
•	Lean neck
•	Dairy neck
•	Slender neck
•	Long body
•	Excellent dairy character
•	Long topline
•	Level topline
•	Strong topline
•	Level rump
•	Strong back legs
•	Well angulated rear legs
•	Strong front legs
•	Strong rear pasterns
•	Strong front pasterns
•	Tight toes
•	Strong tight feet
•	Uphill
•	Hips line up nicely with pins


----------



## Petra490

Thank you! I appreciate it. I ended up putting deposit on this one. I was trying to decide between this and one other one. I found out the other's dam wasn't a good milker so went with this one.
Is it just me or does she toe out in the back? That is one thing that kind of had me thinking. My buck is really nice he improves front end and produces nice deep body, should improve roman nose, but he toes out in the back. 
How serious is that flaw? My son is thinking about showing, so I am trying to pick a good match for him.


----------



## Petra490

Sorry for so many. I am building my herd, and so is my friend.
I found these two doelings for him. 
Any chance I could get a critique on them.


----------



## Lovemynubians74




----------



## CrazyDogLady

So, pics of trimmed up junior does. Nicky is the first photo, then Biscuit.


----------



## Lovemynubians74

Thinking about purchasing the doe I just posted tomorrow. Any thoughts?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Hard to tell with the angle of the photo and that she's moving.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Strong chest poor breed character? Hard to tell. She looks healthy


----------



## margaret

Petra490 said:


> Thank you! I appreciate it. I ended up putting deposit on this one. I was trying to decide between this and one other one. I found out the other's dam wasn't a good milker so went with this one.
> Is it just me or does she toe out in the back? That is one thing that kind of had me thinking. My buck is really nice he improves front end and produces nice deep body, should improve roman nose, but he toes out in the back.
> How serious is that flaw? My son is thinking about showing, so I am trying to pick a good match for him.


Looks like she does toe out a bit in the back, but not too much. It's not a huge fault.


----------



## Petra490

Thank you Margaret!


----------



## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do my newest doe?


----------



## goatblessings

She is a lovely doe! How old is she, and where was she in her lactation when the pic was taken?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do her!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pros - 
Long body
Good depth
Sharp withers
Smooth withers
Withers well blended into topline
Withers well blended into topline
Long neck
Dairy neck
Slender neck
Good width between front legs
Long rump
Wide rump
Long topline
Strong topline
topline smoothly blended into rump
Deep muzzle
Wide forehead
Straight profile
Okay strength to pasterns
Straight canons
Hocks not too pointed inward
Wattles! 
Upright

Cons - 
Steep rump
Canons not in line with pins
Front legs don't stand straight
Weak pasterns
Long pasterns 
Loose pasterns
Oversized brisket
Deeper heart girth
Thigh curved too much
Higher withers

I'll do her udder later


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Here's her udder. Side note - I stink at udders!!! 

Pros - 
Nice shape
Well sized teats
Well shaped teats
Teats point forward at the correct angle
Okay front attachments
Good teat placement (from the side)
Even halves
Carried nice and high
Teats mostly pointed straight down

Cons - 
Could use more capacity
Higher/wider euscuteon (I'm absolutely positive I got that spelled wrong :hammer
Weak rear attachments
Teats too far to the sides
Weak medial

Is she a FF? Looks like a nice udder, only lacking capacity!


----------



## margaret

goatblessings said:


> She is a lovely doe! How old is she, and where was she in her lactation when the pic was taken?


I believe she's 4 y/o, freshened in March


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

All ND's:
I know they're quite fluffy  General thoughts?

1) Finch - Registered buckling, 6 1/2 months old here.








2) Aellie - purebred doeling, 8 months old. Half sister to Oreo via sire.








3) Oreo - purebred doeling, 8 months old


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

We're like drowning in goats to critique  :l


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Finch - 

Pros - 
Long body
Long, masculine neck
Nice wedge
Okay rear leg set
High withers
Good brisket for a 6 1/2 month old
Front legs directly below the shoulder
Hocks in line with pins
Good depth

Cons -
Loose elbows
Steep, short rump
Short canons
Weak topline
Front legs bent
Short face
Dished profile


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Aellie - 

Pros - 
Long body
Good depth
Good wedge
Long rump
Lovely angle of rump for a Nigi 
Nice thighs
Straight canons
Canons in line with pins
Nice wedge
High withers

Cons - 
Weak topline, though not bad - might just be the way she's standing
Small brisket
Thick neck
Short neck
Front legs not under the shoulder
Short canons


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Oreo - 

Pros - 
Deep
Good wedge
Strong topline
Canons in line with pins
Strong front legs
Long neck
Slender neck
Awesome rump
Brisket smoothly blended into neck

Cons - 
Short body
Skimpy brisket
Posty
Front legs not be neat shoulder
Low withers/not very upright
Short face
Short canons
Short rump


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Aellie is definitely my favorite. She's the most dairy and just overall more smooth and correct. Bucks have a habit of standing like Finch is doing in that picture, making themselves look weak toplined, long bodied, and upright. So not sure how accurate the critique of him was. Lovely rumps on both girls, only a tad short. Oreo is overall just too short bodied for a good dairy doe. She has a nice neck though  And a rather invisible head :lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Kristen's doe Nicky - 

Pros - 
Long body
Okay length to neck
Good wedge
Slender neck
Broad forehead
Okay rump angle
Strong canons
Straight canons
Canons in line with pins
Okay depth
Strong rear pasterns
Short pasterns
Strong g front legs
Straight front legs
Front legs placed just below the shoulder
Good thighs
High withers smooth withers
Long topline
Strong loin 
Smoothly blended from topline to rump
Smoothly blended from topline to withers
Flashy coloring

Cons - 
Toes out
Short rump
Weak brisket
Loose toes
Weak chine
Sharper withers
Long neck


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Petra's first doe posted on page 61 - 

Pros - 
Long body
Level rump
Straight front legs
Front legs directly below the shoulder
Strong canons
Straight canons
Long canons
Looks like her canons would line up with the hocks and her thighs would be perfect if her rear leg were a little bit farther back...
Strong front pasterns
Good brisket for a young doe
High withers
Smooth withers
Sharp withers
Withers well blended into topline
Withers well blended into neck
Long neck
Slender neck
Dairy neck
Neck well blended into brisket
Good wedge
Deep muzzle
Deep face

Cons - 
Weak topline
leg problems I mentioned previously - slightly posty and the canons don't line up with the pins, which as I also mentioned could probably be fixed by placing the legs farther back
Weak rear pasterns
Nubian ears and nose aren't as defined as I would like - is she a full Nubian? 
Lacks depth


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Petra's first doe posted on page 61 -
> 
> Pros -
> Long body
> Level rump
> Straight front legs
> Front legs directly below the shoulder
> Strong canons
> Straight canons
> Long canons
> Looks like her canons would line up with the hocks and her thighs would be perfect if her rear leg were a little bit farther back...
> Strong front pasterns
> Good brisket for a young doe
> High withers
> Smooth withers
> Sharp withers
> Withers well blended into topline
> Withers well blended into neck
> Long neck
> Slender neck
> Dairy neck
> Neck well blended into brisket
> Good wedge
> Deep muzzle
> Deep face
> 
> Cons -
> Weak topline
> leg problems I mentioned previously - slightly posty and the canons don't line up with the pins, which as I also mentioned could probably be fixed by placing the legs farther back
> Weak rear pasterns
> Nubian ears and nose aren't as defined as I would like - is she a full Nubian?
> Lacks depth


Thank you! I appreciate the critique.
Yes, she is PB Nubian. We ended up buying her.
I was worried myself when I have seen the picture. It looked like she had really flat nose. It was a bad picture. She actually has a nice head. 
She is pretty young and is skinny, so I think she will look a lot better once I put a little weight on her.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Yeah, she looks a ton better in that photo! 
You should post another photo of her set up after she gains some weight.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Lovemynubians74's buck Titan - 

Pros - 
Long 
Deep
Long neck
Masculine neck
Dairy neck
Strong topline
Doesn't toe out
Not hocky
Strong canons
Straight canons
Canons in line with pins
Good width between front legs
Okay level to rump
Withers blended smoothly into topline
Neck blended smoothly into withers
Strong brisket
Deep brisket
Good Nubi ears
Even testes
Deep muzzle
Good wedge
Neck smoothly blended into brisket
Strong pasterns
Short pasterns
Strong front legs
Broad chest
Broad forehead

Cons - 
Short rump
Smoother topline
Legs a bit posty
Front legs too far forward
Narrow rump
Low withers
Slightly weak chine
Better Roman nose


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Yeah, she looks a ton better in that photo!
> You should post another photo of her set up after she gains some weight.


Will do! Thank you!


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> I believe she's 4 y/o, freshened in March


 haha, I think you know more than I do! :smile: She is drying off in the pictures.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Emma's Jr buck - 

Pros - 
long body
nice depth
strong canons
straight canons
strong loin
long topline
level rump
strong front legs
nice thighs
good rear leg set
long neck 
deep muzzle
canons in line with pins
deep heart girth
high withers
smooth withers
withers well bended into topline
good brisket
good wedge
good overall strength and appearance 
strong pasterns
okay length to canons
lean neck
straight profile
pretty coloring
topline smoothly blended into rump
withers smoothly blended into neck 
short front pasterns
uphill
smooth shoulder
neck well blended into shoulder

Cons - 
thighs could be thicker
long rear pasterns
weak chine 
dip in neck
toes out 
sharper withers
withers could blend more smoothly into neck
loose elbows 
short face
somewhat short rump


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Kristen, Biscuit's photo is at an odd angle, so hard to get an accurate critique. Anyway, my thoughts on her are, she looks about the same as Nicky, only more sharply angled rear legs and a stronger topline. She has a longer rump as well.


----------



## CrazyDogLady

It is an odd angle. She did a bit better at the fair than the others, but my husband's and my handling skills were less than adequate. The woman who bred them came to the show just to watch them, and thought they were nice. That made me happy. It has also been nice talking to goat people.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thanks, Suzanne! I haven't *cough* been working with Finch teaching him to pose as much as I should...he stinks! But yes, he's long and upright. His topline isn't topnotch but it's okay.


----------



## KarmakeeFarm

She can come live with me anyday!!! Love that mammary!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Okay, I made a list of all the goats left to critique...

Hallie - Page 51
Once upon a time Meg said she would critique her :lol:

Ginger - Page 56

Biscuit - One photo on page 56 & one on page 62

Petra's buck - Page 58

Petra's doe - Page 58
Same post as her buck

Petra's 2nd doe - Page 58 as well

Petra's 2 doelings - Page 61

Petra, you mentioned for the 2nd doe on page 58 and for the 2 doelings on page 61, that you were thinking about buying them. Do you still need critiques on those?


----------



## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Okay, I made a list of all the goats left to critique...
> 
> Hallie - Page 51
> Once upon a time Meg said she would critique her :lol:


I thought I did her already!
Darn it:lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Maybe I missed it


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Okay, I made a list of all the goats left to critique...
> 
> Hallie - Page 51
> Once upon a time Meg said she would critique her :lol:
> 
> Ginger - Page 56
> 
> Biscuit - One photo on page 56 & one on page 62
> 
> Petra's buck - Page 58
> 
> Petra's doe - Page 58
> Same post as her buck
> 
> Petra's 2nd doe - Page 58 as well
> 
> Petra's 2 doelings - Page 61
> 
> Petra, you mentioned for the 2nd doe on page 58 and for the 2 doelings on page 61, that you were thinking about buying them. Do you still need critiques on those?


I don't need the critique on the mini nubians any more. The buck was really not all that great. So we sold him. The doe was cute and friendly; we thought we'd keep her as a pet. 
My friend bought his first goat. He borrowed the mini nubian for a time being since it wasn't very easy to buy a second one right away, and he didn't want to get just any goat.
His neighbors poisoned the mini nubian. :'(
Now I have his goats in my place until he moves his pen farther from the fence, so they cannot reach in and poison them too. 

But I would love critique on the last doeling on page 58.
And critique on my friend's goats - the last two doelings on page 61. 
Thank you!!!! <3


----------



## margaret

So, I know I'm a horrible slacker but if someone wants to do these does, I would really appreciate it. 
If someone does them, I'll critique 3 of the does on Suzanne's list

Merry Oaks LS Roll Gypsy Roll. 
1st place Sr. kid and Reserve Jr. Champion 2016 NC State Fair Open Show.
3rd place Sr. kid 2016 ADGA Nationals
LOVE this doe!!







Merry Oaks LS White Dove
1st place Sr. kid and Reserve Jr. Champion 2016 NCDGBA Spring Show














Merry Oaks CallMeTheBreeze
1st place dry yearling and Reserve Champion 2016 NC State Fair youth show.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Breeze - 

Pros - 
Long
Level
Good depth
Long topline
Strong topline
Level rump
Good wedge
Deep brisket
Strong front legs
Long neck
Dairy neck
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns 
Strong canons
Withers smoothly blended into topline
Smooth withers
Deep face
Deep muzzle
Okay rear leg set
Okay sharpness to withers
Deep heart girth
Neck smoothly blended into shoulder
Topline smoothly blended into rump

Cons - 
Slightly Roman nose
Loose elbows
Short canons
Smoother shoulder
Sharper withers
Neck more smoothly blended into brisket
Canons not quite in line with pins


----------



## margaret

Thank you Suzanne
Which goat should I do?


----------



## Dairy_goat

here is my 4yr old Lamancha Doe (dry)


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Beautiful buck, love the quality of the pictures as well


----------



## margaret

Thinking of maybe getting this boy...







What do you guys think?
I think he could be stronger in the rear legs, but overall I like him


----------



## margaret

Viktoria's lovely Lamancha~

Cons:
-toes out in the rear
-tighter toes
-hocks have just a *slight* tendency to turn in
-neck could be longer
-brisket could be smoother
-could blend a bit better from the shoulders into the neck
-cannons could be a tad straighter

Pros:
-lovely curve to neck
-dairy neck
-smooth blending from neck into withers
-smooth withers
-clean withers
-sharp withers
-nice extension to brisket
-long topline
-level topline
-strong topline
-smooth topline
-strong chine
-strong loin
-excellent width over the topline
-nice body capacity
-nice depth overall
-good depth to barrel
-good depth to heart girth
-strong front legs
-strong cannons
-strong front pasterns
-long rump
-smooth rump
-nicely angled rump
-blends smoothly from topline into rump
-well angulated rear legs
-excellent width throughout
-excellent width between the hocks
-well set rear legs
-strong rear legs
-strong rear pasterns
-hocks lineup nicely with pins
-lovely width in the rump

Gonna stop there for her, she's lovely!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

margaret said:


> Thinking of maybe getting this boy...
> View attachment 112078
> 
> What do you guys think?
> I think he could be stronger in the rear legs, but overall I like him


He toes out and looks a tad short bodied (Though I think it's probably just the angle of the photo). And he has a short rump. Other than that he look very nice 

Are you planning on selling Orion? Is he Loretta's sire?

ETA - What's the farm?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Beautiful buck, love the quality of the pictures as well


Um, Megan, it's a doe :lol:


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Wowzers! :shock: Note to self: DO NOT look at goat pictures when you're sleepy! And if you do, look twice 

So. Embarrassing.


----------



## Dairy_goat

Cedar Point Kikos said:


> Wowzers! :shock: Note to self: DO NOT look at goat pictures when you're sleepy! And if you do, look twice
> 
> So. Embarrassing.


 hehe..I was wondering if you were talking about my doe! Thanks for the compliment, I invested in a good lens and camera for photoshoots of my goats, lol!


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Viktoria's lovely Lamancha~
> 
> Cons:
> -toes out in the rear
> -tighter toes
> -hocks have just a *slight* tendency to turn in
> -neck could be longer
> -brisket could be smoother
> -could blend a bit better from the shoulders into the neck
> -cannons could be a tad straighter
> 
> Pros:
> -lovely curve to neck
> -dairy neck
> -smooth blending from neck into withers
> -smooth withers
> -clean withers
> -sharp withers
> -nice extension to brisket
> -long topline
> -level topline
> -strong topline
> -smooth topline
> -strong chine
> -strong loin
> -excellent width over the topline
> -nice body capacity
> -nice depth overall
> -good depth to barrel
> -good depth to heart girth
> -strong front legs
> -strong cannons
> -strong front pasterns
> -long rump
> -smooth rump
> -nicely angled rump
> -blends smoothly from topline into rump
> -well angulated rear legs
> -excellent width throughout
> -excellent width between the hocks
> -well set rear legs
> -strong rear legs
> -strong rear pasterns
> -hocks lineup nicely with pins
> -lovely width in the rump
> 
> Gonna stop there for her, she's lovely!


 Thanks so much for the critique Margaret! She is actually obese right now, so she needs to lose a few pounds and I need to catch her in heat soon. Q not related to critiquing: Could obesity in the doe lessen the chance of getting pregnant when in heat?


----------



## Ranger1

Yes, excess fat will inhibit conception.


----------



## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> He toes out and looks a tad short bodied (Though I think it's probably just the angle of the photo). And he has a short rump. Other than that he look very nice
> 
> Are you planning on selling Orion? Is he Loretta's sire?
> 
> ETA - What's the farm?


If he were an alpine he wouldn't pass, but since he's a Nigie a figured I'd cut him some slack in the rump department:lol:
I actually sold Orion a couple of months ago. I have a couple kids from him, and he's bred to Iris, and someone offered me $300 for him so I took it! I think Loretta is Nigal's.

Not actually sure what the farm name is lol, but someone is getting Lucy, and offered to trade a Nigerian buck for Taxman. I think he's related to Hickory.
This is his sire
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001703081
and dam
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001676002


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow, that's Hickory's full brother. So Taxman will be going to breed Dahlie if it all turns out :shocked:

Unless she sold him and then someone else is wanting to trade.

ETA - But that is the farm the Dahile went to, I recognize the scenery is the photo.


----------



## margaret

Wow, that's cool!


----------



## BoulderOaks

Jasmine- Nigerian Doe. I believe she is 8 years old, but I'd have to double check her registration papers. She is dry now, and I've never seen her udder full, as I just recently bought her. Ha! Finally figured out how to get my pictures to not turn themselves sideways lol!






















And Jasmine's daughter, Mercedes.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok, how do you get them not to turn sideways?


----------



## BoulderOaks

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Ok, how do you get them not to turn sideways?


 I had to go to them in my files BEFORE attempting to upload any pictures to the forum. Then left clicked the sideways pictures in my Photos file, selected "Rotate Clockwise" and exited out. Then in the forum, brought up the Relpy to Thread, uploaded the now right-side-up photos, and previewed the post to double check, and it worked!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Jasmine - 

Pros - 
long
deep 
level
okay strength to topline
very nice width between front legs
straight profile
deep muzzle
straight canons
strong canons
wide rump
upright
smooth withers
withers well blended into topline
high withers
good chest floor
deep heart girth
strong front legs
straight front legs
front legs directly beneath shoulder
good wedge
strong pasterns
short pasterns


Cons - 
loose elbow
no brisket
hocky
toes out
steep rump
short face
posty
short neck 
chubby neck
smoother topline
loose rear toes
short canons


Looks like her dewclaws need a trim! I've never seen them grown out so far :-o

She has most of the typical Nigerian flaws. Steep rump, posty, hocky, short and thick neck, and so on. 

Amazing pasterns for an 8yo, and I just love her front leg set  

Mercedes is definitely an improvement over her. Better brisket, topline, neck, and rear legs. Same gorgeous front legs!


----------



## BoulderOaks

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Jasmine -
> 
> Pros -
> long
> deep
> level
> okay strength to topline
> very nice width between front legs
> straight profile
> deep muzzle
> straight canons
> strong canons
> wide rump
> upright
> smooth withers
> withers well blended into topline
> high withers
> good chest floor
> deep heart girth
> strong front legs
> straight front legs
> front legs directly beneath shoulder
> good wedge
> strong pasterns
> short pasterns
> 
> Cons -
> loose elbow
> no brisket
> hocky
> toes out
> steep rump
> short face
> posty
> short neck
> chubby neck
> smoother topline
> loose rear toes
> short canons
> 
> Looks like her dewclaws need a trim! I've never seen them grown out so far :-o
> 
> She has most of the typical Nigerian flaws. Steep rump, posty, hocky, short and thick neck, and so on.
> 
> Amazing pasterns for an 8yo, and I just love her front leg set
> 
> Mercedes is definitely an improvement over her. Better brisket, topline, neck, and rear legs. Same gorgeous front legs!


Thank you! Also, I just checked Jasmine's pedigree. Turns out she's TEN! :shocked:


----------



## BoulderOaks

Petunia- 8 years old, dry.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

I love her coloring!


----------



## GoatMama123

Un-renamed gals I am getting tomorrow  First ones face isn't in great positioning but I am just excited.


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Gorgeous! Love the black girl


----------



## nicolemackenzie

6 month old buck
75% alpine / 25% Nubian


----------



## Dairy_goat

Does anyone want to do my newest doe? She is 5. I don't exactly know when these photos were taken, as I did not take the photos.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

^^ Claimed!!


----------



## margaret

I feel like I recognize that doe Viktoria, who is she?

Oh and I thought you were done buying goats for a while after the Lamancha?


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> I feel like I recognize that doe Viktoria, who is she?
> 
> Oh and I thought you were done buying goats for a while after the Lamancha?


 haha,whoops- Margaret you caught me red handed eepwall:, but I just couldn't resist this awesome doe! She is from the same farm that I got Symphonie from (La Paysanne). Simone,the doe I just bought, is actually symphonies 1/2 sibling.


----------



## margaret

Oh, that's Simone, I thought I recognized her!
And I don't have much room to talk lol, I just reserved 2 bucklings and with great difficulty restrained myself from reserving 3!


----------



## Bree_6293

Thoughts? 2 weeks old in photo


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Is this the one we all loved earlier?
Did you end up retaining him?


----------



## Bree_6293

Different one. I did keep the other and he is growing amazing!! He has just been weaned. I really like this little boy that is completely different breeding to the other. I have sold this ones mom unfortunately as I had a offer I couldn't refuse on her, so was hoping to keep him to keep her line in my herd. I have sold a fair few boys so can keep him to breed with if he is nice enough. He is from my smallest lines too which was my other reason.


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Oh, that's Simone, I thought I recognized her!
> And I don't have much room to talk lol, I just reserved 2 bucklings and with great difficulty restrained myself from reserving 3!


 ohhhhh Alpine reservations?


----------



## Matadequin

Someone on this thread will probably recognize these pictures since she took them at the Fair for me this year, but here are my two favorite does in our herd. The sundgau (purchased) will be a 2 year-old first freshener when she kids and the chamoisee (home-bred) will be a milking yearling.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok, sorry this took so long :/

Without further ado, Viktoria's doe Simone - 

Pros - 
Long
Deep
Dairy
Level
Strong topline
Long topline
Long neck
Excellent wedge
Level rump
Okay sized brisket 
Smooth shoulder
Smoothly blended from withers to neck
Canons line up with pins
Strong canons
Deep muzzle
Straight canons
Well blended from neck to brisket

Cons - 
Posty
Round rump
Short rump
Neck could see some improvements - slightly stocky, slightly short, slight dip
Smoother topline
Toes out
Hocks turn in
Short canons
Higher withers
Stronger brisket
Weak patterns in the first photo but strong in the second :scratch:
Better blending from neck to shoudler
Spindly front legs


----------



## Dairy_goat

Thanks so much Suzanne!

Simone is bred to a Nodaway buck and is due in less than two months, so I am excited!


----------



## margaret

Matadequin said:


> Someone on this thread will probably recognize these pictures since she took them at the Fair for me this year, but here are my two favorite does in our herd. The sundgau (purchased) will be a 2 year-old first freshener when she kids and the chamoisee (home-bred) will be a milking yearling.


Claimed!


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> ohhhhh Alpine reservations?


Yep! Check out this breeding-
http://www.adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigreePrint.aspx?SireNum=A001612750&DamNum=A001686304


----------



## margaret

Dairy_goat said:


> Thanks so much Suzanne!
> 
> Simone is bred to a Nodaway buck and is due in less than two months, so I am excited!


Nuance?


----------



## Dairy_goat

margaret said:


> Yep! Check out this breeding-
> http://www.adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigreePrint.aspx?SireNum=A001612750&DamNum=A001686304


WOW! :shocked: I really have to admit that I am pretty jealous!! I bet you are already excited for planning the 2018 kidding schedule!! :grin::balloons: 
Oh and Simone is bred to Nodaway Nuance Normandie, but umm I lost the service paper somewhere in my room as I was filling out the transfer form, I definitely need to clean up now..


----------



## margaret

That's who it was, he's a nice buck. I look forward to seeing your kids next year!

I know, I'm sooo excited! I can't wait to see my kid crop in 2018! Planning to take a pretty big group to Nationals that year.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Anyone mind critiquing my grade alpine buck?


----------



## margaret

Sure


----------



## nicolemackenzie

nicolemackenzie said:


> 6 month old buck
> 75% alpine / 25% Nubian
> View attachment 112423
> View attachment 112424
> View attachment 112425


Here's the post

Sorry I'll just repost the pics


----------



## nicolemackenzie

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112423&d=1480108779


----------



## nicolemackenzie




----------



## margaret

Matadequin said:


> Someone on this thread will probably recognize these pictures since she took them at the Fair for me this year, but here are my two favorite does in our herd. The sundgau (purchased) will be a 2 year-old first freshener when she kids and the chamoisee (home-bred) will be a milking yearling.


 The sundgau

Cons:
•	Neck is a little short
•	Neck could be a little leaner as it tapers off
•	Brisket could blend a bit better
•	Ewe neck
•	Shorter pasterns
•	Longer rump
•	A tad bit more angulation to the rear legs

Pros
•	Good breed character
•	Pretty alpine head
•	Clean, well sculpted nostrils
•	Dairy neck
•	Lean neck
•	Neck blends well into shoulders
•	Neck blends well into withers
•	Sharp withers
•	Smooth withers
•	Clean withers
•	Good height to withers
•	Overall nice blending of the front-end assembly
•	Uphill
•	Strong front legs
•	Straight front legs
•	Strong front pasterns
•	Tight toes in front and rear
•	Good body capacity
•	Good depth of barrel (for a dry yearling)
•	Good depth of heart girth
•	Long bodied
•	Strong topline
•	Smooth topline
•	Level topline
•	Good rump angle
•	Hocks line up with pins


----------



## goatblessings

Am I seeing a scur on her? the LaMancha?


----------



## goatblessings

You would have to have it removed to be shown in dairy shows.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

No takers on my little buckling?


----------



## Ranger1

nicolemackenzie said:


> No takers on my little buckling?


I've been watching this and I'm sorry that nobody will do it. I don't like going into as much detail as others, that's why I didn't do him. 
I'll say a couple of things FYI first. If he weren't so hairy it'd be easier to see his conformation, and when taking pictures from the rear, just let him stand square-don't try to extend his back legs. 
Anyway, he's got a dip in his back, and possibly could have smoother shoulder assembly. He's also short bodied and appears to toe out a bit in the front and maybe rear too. He's narrow in the chest as well. I really like his rump, brisket, depth, neck, head and strong pasterns though.


----------



## margaret

nicolemackenzie said:


> No takers on my little buckling?


Sorry, I said I'd do him, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I will try to do him today or tomorrow.


----------



## margaret

goatblessings said:


> You would have to have it removed to be shown in dairy shows.


Actually most shows are fine with a scur You would definitely _want_ to have it removed, but you probably wouldn't _have_ to.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

margaret said:


> Sorry, I said I'd do him, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I will try to do him today or tomorrow.


Thanks


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Ranger1 said:


> I've been watching this and I'm sorry that nobody will do it. I don't like going into as much detail as others, that's why I didn't do him.
> 
> I'll say a couple of things FYI first. If he weren't so hairy it'd be easier to see his conformation, and when taking pictures from the rear, just let him stand square-don't try to extend his back legs.
> 
> Anyway, he's got a dip in his back, and possibly could have smoother shoulder assembly. He's also short bodied and appears to toe out a bit in the front and maybe rear too. He's narrow in the chest as well. I really like his rump, brisket, depth, neck, head and strong pasterns though.


I don't mind short notes. I used him on my Nubian doe and just wanted some thoughts. Thank you!

He was freaked out and bracing. I didn't mean to stretch him so much. My friend was weirded out taking the photos so I rushed


----------



## goatblessings

Just commented on the scur because it looks quite long. Shows I've been to state 1/2" or less, maybe it can be clipped?????


----------



## Emzi00

When I had to remove a scur I used a wire saw to cut it close to the base and then used a disbudding iron on it to stop the bleeding and to help prevent it from growing back so large.


----------



## margaret

One of my 3 y/o does has a scur that keeps growing back. I've been banding it, knowing I'll just have to do it over and over again, maybe if I would actually cut the notch around the horn base I could get it off permanently.


----------



## margaret

It's a great tutorial, I just need to do it.

If it's wiggly, I'm sure she'll just knock it off soon!


----------



## thegoatgirl

Is anyone still active on here?  The thread seems to have died down a bit. I'm back, and willing to have a go at a few goats in need of critique.


----------



## margaret

I'm still here...Sorta
Nicolemackenzie's buckling on pg 70 needs done


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I think we still have maybe ten goats to do. Somebody needs to go through and make a list.


----------



## thegoatgirl

I do not volunteer as tribute. :lol: Give me a chance to get back on an actual computer and I'll try to do the buckling.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

thegoatgirl said:


> I do not volunteer as tribute. :lol: Give me a chance to get back on an actual computer and I'll try to do the buckling.


Ty!


----------



## margaret

But Ariella you are the (un)official list-maker! :lol:


----------



## Petra490

I'm still here. You can do the two doelings from page 61. I'll repost the pictures so you don't have to search for them.
Also I would really love if you could do this ND buckling. I bred him to a couple of my does to get some mini nubians from him. Sorry he is so hairy. I couldn't clip him, since he was borrowed.


----------



## thegoatgirl

Okay, nicolmackenzie, here's your big boy.  Some of the photos were hard to work with (the rear one in particular) so some of this could be off. I'm realizing I'm wayyy out of practice, too. :lol: I should also say that I am in the habit of searching for cons first, since when I'm looking at my girls most of the time, I'm looking for what I need to improve on.  I'm judging him as I would a Swiss, full-sized buck. 

Pros:
Very upright front end assembly!
Fair brisket extension
Strong chine
Nice, long rump
Pretty level rump
Long, lean neck
Good angulation to the rear legs
Tight toes
Good rear feet
Good front feet
Excellent depth to the heel
Fair depth in the barrel
High, well-arched escutcheon
Seems to track straight in the rear
Fairly straight front legs
Good bone
Sharp withers
Smoothly blended from neck to withers
Classic Alpine face from side-profile
Looks to have fair width in the forehead, though the angle is off to see if it carries down to his nose
Strong pasterns

Cons:
Looks a bit roachy over the topline, though if he was in rut when this photo was taken that could be a good bit of it
Long pasterns, mainly in the rear
Toes out in the fore
Ears could be placed more correctly on the head in a "bonnet position"
Looks maybe a bit small for his age, but I know there are a lot of factors to this 
Needs more width throughout
Needs more depth to the chest floor (and brisket, though I don't know the term for this)
Could use a bit more width of rump
Front legs don't seem to be placed correctly underneath withers
Front legs seem a bit bowed, though overall they look good
There's something "off" about the way his front end assembly looks, either that or the way he's standing; can't put my finger on it though

He's a pretty nice boy! Oddly, enough, he reminds me a lot of one of my 2016 buck kids. Something about the color, topline, and face.


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Ty. He has loose shoulders I think and lacks blending. He was also pretty freaked out and bracing weird.

Your buck is much more blended! Very handsome !


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

I'm sorta still here  Very out of practice though!


----------



## MoonShadow

I'm learning so much about conformation just readings and studying this thread, its fantastic!!! But I'm still a bit confused on how you can tell if a goat is higher in the thurls. So if someone could explain it/show me, I'd be very grateful!


----------



## thegoatgirl

margaret said:


> But Ariella you are the (un)official list-maker! :lol:


Yeahhhh, me thinks not. :lol:
While I'm waiting for kids to arrive, I can probably do another one or two.  Anyone want their girls/guys done?

nicolemackenzie, thank you!  He was quite nice looking, though I did not like his front end or the fact that he screamed bloody murder for a week and a half straight when weaned. :lol:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Honey


----------



## margaret

Wanna do Fancy?


----------



## margaret

Honey
Cons:
•	Neck should be longer
•	Neck should be leaner
•	Tighter toes in the back
•	A little steep in the rump
•	Rump is a little short
•	Thurls should be higher
•	Hocks don’t line up with pins
•	Tighter toes in the front
•	Looks as though she has a slight tendency to toe out in front
•	Stronger rear pasterns
•	Front legs could blend just a bit better into the chest
•	A tad short-bodied
•	Rear legs set a bit too far back
•	Toes out a bit in the back
•	Should be sharper and more angular throughout.
Pros
•	Good breed character
•	Strong Alpine head
•	Clean, well sculpted nostrils
•	Clean throat junction
•	Smooth blending into neck
•	Clean neck
•	Neck blends well into the shoulders
•	Neck blends well into brisket
•	Smooth withers
•	Clean withers
•	Well blended shoulders and front end
•	OK width to chest
•	OK brisket extension
•	Good depth of heart girth for her size
•	Good depth of barrel, as she is young now, hopefully that will improve with age
•	Smooth topline
•	Strong topline
•	Level topline
•	OK width of rump
•	Good width of body
•	Strong front legs
•	Straight front legs
•	Ok width between hocks
•	Short pasterns
•	Nice rear leg arch and escutcheon
•	Overall well blended


----------



## nicolemackenzie

Can someone draw on a picture/make a side by side comparison of thurls?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

^^That would be awesome!! I have no idea about anything to do with thurls


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok, ya'll. I have made a list 


Meg's doe Gypsy - page 65

Meg's doe Dove - page 65

Sundew Farms' doe Petunia - page 67

Matadequin's chamoisee doe - page 69

Praguirre's LaMancha doe - page 70

Petra's 2 Nubian does - page 72

Petra's Nigerian Dwarf buckling - page 72

Meg's doe Fancy - this page


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Sundew Farms' doe Petunia - 

Pros - 
Long
Deep 
Level
Upright
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Deep brisket
Well shaped brisket
Smooth withers
Strong pasterns
Straight pasterns
Short pasterns
Good chest floor
Good width between front legs
Doesn't toe out
Not hocky
Good thigh
Canons in line with pins
Deep muzzle 
Deep face
Straight face profile 
High withers
Tight toes
Well blended from neck to withers
Well blended from neck to brisket

Cons - 
Short canons
Spimky rump width
Short rump
Better wedge
Smoother topline
Steep rump
Loose elbows
Thick neck
More smoothly blended from neck to shoulder


----------



## margaret

Might be hard picture example to find, but I'll try!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Matadequin's chamoisee doe - 

Pros - 
Long 
Level
Smooth withers
Slender neck
Deep muzzle
Strong canons
Straight canons
Canons in line with pins
Strong brisket
Deep brisket
Short pasterns
Fairly strong pasterns
Well blended from neck to brisket
Well blended from neck to shoulder
Well rounded thigh
Strong thigh
Good rear leg set

Cons - 
Loose elbows
Shoulder could be smoother
Steep rump
Smoother topline - if she was set up better I think she wouldn't have that problem
Higher withers
Neck could be more prominent 
Somewhat short face
Jaw looks slightly overshot (??? Might just be that she was grumpy during the photo shoot... that would explain a lot :lol
Front legs could be smoother
Canons could be longer
Could be more upright 
Short rump
Wedge could be better
Could have stronger dairy character


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Petra's ND buck. 
This is going to be a bit short because he's in rut and has tons of fur 

Pros - 
Long 
Level
Upright
Deep
Short pasterns
Straight canons
Good wedge
Deep muzzle
Straight face profile
Nice thighs
Cute of course lol
Standing nice and square

Cons - 
Short pasterns
Could be deeper in the heart girth
Short rump
Weak pasterns
Weak front legs 
Toes out in front legs


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Petra's ND buck.
> This is going to be a bit short because he's in rut and has tons of fur
> 
> Pros -
> Long
> Level
> Upright
> Deep
> Short pasterns
> Straight canons
> Good wedge
> Deep muzzle
> Straight face profile
> Nice thighs
> Cute of course lol
> Standing nice and square
> 
> Cons -
> Short pasterns
> Could be deeper in the heart girth
> Short rump
> Weak pasterns
> Weak front legs
> Toes out in front legs


Thank you!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Praguirre's LaMancha doeling - 

Pros - 
deep
strong front legs
good space between front legs
pretty good brisket for 6 mos old
strong canons
straight canons
strong canons
neck smoothly blended into brisket
broad forehead
okay length to body
goo elbows
wide rump
long rump
deep muzzle

Cons - 
hocks turn in
roach back
steep rump
withers could be higher
withers could be sharper
hocks not in line with pins
neck not in proportion with body 
toes turn out in back 
could be more upright 
roman nose


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok y'all, somebody else needs to chip in and critique a goat :lol:


----------



## margaret

I'll do Petra's does if i get a chance. I think all the other ones are mine.


----------



## BoulderOaks

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Sundew Farms' doe Petunia -
> 
> Pros -
> Long
> Deep
> Level
> Upright
> Strong front legs
> Straight front legs
> Deep brisket
> Well shaped brisket
> Smooth withers
> Strong pasterns
> Straight pasterns
> Short pasterns
> Good chest floor
> Good width between front legs
> Doesn't toe out
> Not hocky
> Good thigh
> Canons in line with pins
> Deep muzzle
> Deep face
> Straight face profile
> High withers
> Tight toes
> Well blended from neck to withers
> Well blended from neck to brisket
> 
> Cons -
> Short canons
> Spimky rump width
> Short rump
> Better wedge
> Smoother topline
> Steep rump
> Loose elbows
> Thick neck
> More smoothly blended from neck to shoulder


Thank you! Just realized a couple months ago though...not a doe. Petunia's a hermaphrodite! She (or "it") came in very handy this breeding season though! I didn't miss a single heat on any of the does lol. But I don't get to have any kids out of her I guess. :/


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Updated list - 


Meg's doe Gypsy - page 65

Meg's doe Dove - page 65

Petra's 2 Nubian does - page 72

Meg's doe Fancy - page 73


----------



## Matadequin

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Matadequin's chamoisee doe -
> 
> Pros -
> Long
> Level
> Smooth withers
> Slender neck
> Deep muzzle
> Strong canons
> Straight canons
> Canons in line with pins
> Strong brisket
> Deep brisket
> Short pasterns
> Fairly strong pasterns
> Well blended from neck to brisket
> Well blended from neck to shoulder
> Well rounded thigh
> Strong thigh
> Good rear leg set
> 
> Cons -
> Loose elbows
> Shoulder could be smoother
> Steep rump
> Smoother topline - if she was set up better I think she wouldn't have that problem
> Higher withers
> Neck could be more prominent
> Somewhat short face
> Jaw looks slightly overshot (??? Might just be that she was grumpy during the photo shoot... that would explain a lot :lol
> Front legs could be smoother
> Canons could be longer
> Could be more upright
> Short rump
> Wedge could be better
> Could have stronger dairy character


Thanks for reviewing!  She was not happy during that photo shoot. My two year old was running around and setting everyone's goats on edge. In her youngstock eval she got an EC in both back and rump so I'm going to need to work hard to be a better showman and setting her up! What does "loose elbows" mean? I think most of my goats need work on the front end, but I'm not sure exactly how to achieve that. I learned a lot at Linear Appraisal this year but am still such a novice when it comes to knowing what to look for.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pretty much how it sounds  You want the elbows to be nice and tight and tucked in sorta. Not loose or weak.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Fancy - 

Pros - 
Long body
Level
Strong topline
Level rump
Long neck
Fairly slender neck
Deep muzzle
Nice brisket for her age
Strong canons
Long canons
Canons in line with pins
Front legs directly beneath shoulder
Withers smoothly blended into topline
Neck smoothly blended into brisket
Nice depth
Straight profile
Good breed character
Good wedge
Deep heart girth
Neck smoothly blended into shoulder

Cons - 
Legs a little posty
Withers could be higher
Withers could be sharper
Short face
Short rump
Neck could be more graceful and dairy
Weak front pasterns 
Front legs could be smoother


----------



## chiwapacreek

Could someone do JJ please?


----------



## Emzi00

For JJ,

I like his length of body, his dairy character, and his width between his hocks. His feet and legs don't look terrible, but I would like stronger pasterns and more angulation in his rear legs. His rump could be longer and more more level. I'd also like to see him deeper in the heart girth. I'd like to see him blend more smoothly through the shoulders. He could be more upstanding. He seems to lack breed character, but that could just be the photo.


----------



## chiwapacreek

Thanks. He was a week old in this pic I'll post another in a few months. His mom is a champion doe and his moms mom is a grand champion so I have high expectations


----------



## chiwapacreek

Mari please! Oh and let me add she was not in milk in this photo.


----------



## Petra490

Sorry I don't do critique, just wanted to say she is beautiful!


----------



## chiwapacreek

Thank you Petra490!


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

I haven't done this before.
So, tell me what you think of Clarabelle
The first udder picture was in May when she was about 3 months into lactation.
The second udder pic was at end of October 8 months or so into lactation.
Both pics are 2nd Freshening udder.

ETA 3 more pics. The last three in the yellow garage was when she was being appraised in June.


----------



## margaret

Claimed!


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

margaret said:


> Claimed!


 Well???
I'm thinking I'm keeping her unless you tell me she's a cull


----------



## Bree_6293

IHEARTGOATS said:


> I haven't done this before.
> So, tell me what you think of Clarabelle
> The first udder picture was in May when she was about 3 months into lactation.
> The second udder pic was at end of October 8 months or so into lactation.
> Both pics are 2nd Freshening udder.
> 
> ETA 3 more pics. The last three in the yellow garage was when she was being appraised in June.


Wow! She is nice. What is her height?


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

Bree_6293 said:


> Wow! She is nice. What is her height?


She's 20 1/2 " tall


----------



## margaret

IHEARTGOATS said:


> Well???
> I'm thinking I'm keeping her unless you tell me she's a cull


Lol, yeah don't sell her she's lovely. Just give me a little to get her critiqued. I'll do it today.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

margaret said:


> Lol, yeah don't sell her she's lovely. Just give me a little to get her critiqued. I'll do it today.


Uh, Meg??


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Chiwapa creek's doe Mari - 

Pros - 
strong brisket
longbod
strong front legs
strong canons
long nears
good nubian ears
deep muzzle
good wedge
good depth
tight elbows
smoothly blended from new to brisket
good high
smooth withers
withers well blended into topline

Cons - 
withers could be sharper and higher
thick neck
somewhat short face
nose could be a lot more roman
weak chine
steep rump
short rump
canons not in line with pins
long pasterns
weak pasterns
could be more upright
topline could be smoother and longer


----------



## Mossyrock

I'm new here! I don't have him home yet, but this is my Nigerian Dwarf buckling.

I know these aren't the greatest conformation pics, (and he's fuzzy and very young!) but there are what I have. I'm curious what people see in him!







In this one he's less than a day old


Can't wait to have him home and I can get some better pics!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He looks promising. Standing square, good topline. His sire is really nice judging by the photo you posted on your other thread. Definitely post more photos when you get him


----------



## margaret

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Uh, Meg??


Oh yeah...


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

margaret said:


> Oh yeah...


I just figured you needed 2 weeks to come up with any "cons"


----------



## margaret

Lol, well I can tell you her con list will be MUCH shorter than her pros, she's really pretty.
I've just been kind of busy and forgot about it.


----------



## TeyluFarm

Ya know... If you decide to cull Clarabelle you should send her my way she's gorgeous. Her udder is amazing! I wish my Nigerian had teats that large.... And as I say that I realize only goat people understand


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

What do y'all think about this dude?


----------



## Emzi00

He looks nice! Only thing I don't care for are his pasterns, they're a touch long.


----------



## margaret

Agreed! His pasterns are kind of like Eb's.
I like his topline and rump, and overall he looks good


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok, thanks. I'm considering keeping him as a herd sire, because he's Jenny's last kid. We'll see what Honey has


----------



## margaret

Not a bad idea.


----------



## Bree_6293

50%ND buck kid at 1 month old. He is now 5 months but I haven't been able to get as good photos


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I like him. Nice width and depth, standing square, level topline, nice strong legs. Neck is chubby and rump is short, but that's pretty typical for NDs.


----------



## margaret

Ok, here's my thought's on Clarabelle.
But late than never...right?:underchair:

Cons:
-rump could be a tad more level, but not bad for a Nigie
-hocks have a bit of a tendency to turn in
-rear leg set could be a little stronger and more squarely set
-longer neck
-more dairy neck

Pros:
-sharp withers
-Angular and dairy throughout
-long bodied
-long topline
-level topline
-strong topline
-Nice angulation to the rear legs
-upstanding
-hocks line up nicely with pins
-Nice width in the rump
-Wide rear leg set
-good width throughout
-smoothly blended 
-Good body capacity
-Good depth of hear girth
-Good depth of barrel
-short pasterns
-strong pasterns

I'm a bit scatterbrained right now...and maybe just a little out of practice:lol: so I missed stuff
But anyways, I like her a lot for a Nigerian, she's really pretty What did she appraise?

I'll do her udder...later


----------



## IHEARTGOATS

margaret said:


> Ok, here's my thought's on Clarabelle.
> But late than never...right?:underchair:
> 
> Cons:
> -rump could be a tad more level, but not bad for a Nigie
> -hocks have a bit of a tendency to turn in
> -rear leg set could be a little stronger and more squarely set
> -longer neck
> -more dairy neck
> 
> Pros:
> -sharp withers
> -Angular and dairy throughout
> -long bodied
> -long topline
> -level topline
> -strong topline
> -Nice angulation to the rear legs
> -upstanding
> -hocks line up nicely with pins
> -Nice width in the rump
> -Wide rear leg set
> -good width throughout
> -smoothly blended
> -Good body capacity
> -Good depth of hear girth
> -Good depth of barrel
> -short pasterns
> -strong pasterns
> 
> I'm a bit scatterbrained right now...and maybe just a little out of practice:lol: so I missed stuff
> But anyways, I like her a lot for a Nigerian, she's really pretty What did she appraise?
> 
> I'll do her udder...later


She appraised 90 EEEE

She was the Grand Champion in the Youth and Open Show at this past State Fair.

I wish her body had a little more length.


----------



## Mossyrock

I got a few updated pictures of my buckling, I thought I'd share them here to see what people think!

He's SO HAIRY! Haha. He's about a month and a half old in these photos. I will pick him up in May and take millions of photos, so I'll post for a critique again then.


----------



## gabby5946

Would anyone like to critique Meredith, a second freshener Nubian/Oberhasli recorded grade. Just recently turned two April 7th. These were taken about two months ago, about a month after kidding (also first night being separated from kid)


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

We really need a good side shot to give an accurate critique.


----------



## gabby5946

these are the best side shots I could get due to there not being another person to hold her


----------



## nicolemackenzie

I'll see if I can give you a short critique tonight, but others feel free to critique as well.


----------



## billiejw89

Can I get a critique of these 2 yearlings and 8 month old doe?
These are my bucks first batch of kids, I'm trying to see their good and bad points so I can improve our herd. The yearlings are no longer mine, but are here for breeding to our other buck. Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks!

In order

Clover
Marigold
Pebbles

p.s. I know I missed a few spots on their hair cuts, I'm still learning :smile:


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Mossyrock, that is the CUTEST little buck  

I like that he's standing square, nice legs, deep frame. He's got a chubby neck and steep rump though. Definitely post more photos as he matures and I can give you a better critique!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

billiejw's doe Clover - 

Pros - 
strong front legs
short pasterns
long neck
slender neck
deep
pretty nice brisket
tight elbows
deep muzzle
broad forehead
nice withers

Cons - 
poor wedge
short canons
steep rump
canons not in line with pins

That might not be too accurate a critique, she isn't sanding very square.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Marigold - 

Pros - 
long topline
strong topline
strong front legs
canons in line with pins
good brisket
slender neck
withers smoothly blended into topline
ok rump for a ND
good thighs
ok wedge
smoother shoulder
tight elbows 

Cons - 
front legs too far forward 
lacks depth
neck too small
short rump


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Pebbles - 

Pros - 
long body
deep
fairly strong topline
smoothly blended from neck to brisket
nice brisket
long neck
slender neck
smooth withers
strong front legs
straight front legs
good bite
ok wedge
good thigh
strong canons

Cons - 
rough face profile
low withers
short rump
weak chine
could be more upright


----------



## Mossyrock

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Mossyrock, that is the CUTEST little buck
> 
> I like that he's standing square, nice legs, deep frame. He's got a chubby neck and steep rump though. Definitely post more photos as he matures and I can give you a better critique!


Thanks 

Very curious to finally meet him in person! Less than two weeks to go, I can't wait.


----------



## gabby5946

Can anyone do Meredith, a 2 year old 2nd freshening doe.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

I'll do Meredith tonight


----------



## Petra490

Anyone wants to do my 8 weeks old Emma?


----------



## Goatzrule

Anyone what to do my buckling moose?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Meredith - 

Pros - 
Long
Deep
Strong brisket
Long neck
Dairy neck
Hocks don't turn in
Strong canons
Ok withers
Long topline
Smooth topline
Strong topline
Withers smoothly blended into topline
Nice wedge
Neck smoothly blended into brisket
Neck smoothly blended into shoulder
Deep muzzle

Cons - 
Posty rear legs
Weak pasterns
Round rump
Short rump
Steep rump
Short canons
Loose elbows

Udder - 

Pros - 
Nice shape
Ok teat placement from the side view
Good capacity
Thick teats
Good udder arch
Nice medial

Cons - 
Triangular teats
Teats wing out
Uneven sides
Udder too far forward
Short teats
Weak fore attachment


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Emma - 

Pros - 
Strong topline
Long topline
Level topline
Level rump
Strong brisket
Deep brisket
High withers
Smooth withers
Good breed character
Strong canons
Straight canons
Nice curve to thigh
Good depth
Nice wedge
Strong front legs
Short pasterns
Strong pasterns 
Slender neck
Neck smoothly blended into brisket
Neck smoothly blended into withers
Withers smoothly blended into topline
Excellent blending in general

Cons - 
Canons not in line with pins
Short neck
Short rump
Slightly loose elbows

She is absolutely gorgeous


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Emma -
> 
> Pros -
> Strong topline
> Long topline
> Level topline
> Level rump
> Strong brisket
> Deep brisket
> High withers
> Smooth withers
> Good breed character
> Strong canons
> Straight canons
> Nice curve to thigh
> Good depth
> Nice wedge
> Strong front legs
> Short pasterns
> Strong pasterns
> Slender neck
> Neck smoothly blended into brisket
> Neck smoothly blended into withers
> Withers smoothly blended into topline
> Excellent blending in general
> 
> Cons -
> Canons not in line with pins
> Short neck
> Short rump
> Slightly loose elbows
> 
> She is absolutely gorgeous


Thank you! <3
I just bought this buck to breed to her when she grows up! Don't need critique on him. Don't have a good picture. He is super nice though.
To top it off, this is her dam's udder. His dam's udder is really nice too. I can't wait for her babies.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

He is pretty, they will make some cute kids  Nice udder too!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Moose - 

Pros - 
good width to chest
nice canons
smooth topline
good brisket
neck well blended into brisket
ok length to rump
high withers
smooth withers
neck well blended into withers
good length to body
good depth
broad forehead
strong rear pasterns
good breed character

Cons - 
toes out
short canons
posty rear legs
slightly weak chine
short neck
chubby neck
weak front pasterns 
steep rump 
loose elbows
could have smoother shoulder 
and smoother front legs


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Ok, I think we are caught up now. Anyone else have goats they want a critique on?


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> He is pretty, they will will some cute kids  Nice udder too!


Thank you!


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Ok, I think we are caught up now. Anyone else have goats they want a critique on?


I have two babies, that I'd like critique on. Just don't have any decent pictures.
Both are like little gremlins all over the place. Hard to take pictures of them. If I try to stand the square they think I am planning to rip their head of. Need some practice first. 
They are only 10 days old, F1 mini Nubians. 
I'll attach a bunch of photos. If you can figure out what they look like from those, I'd love a critique on them. If not, I'll take pictures when they get older. I'm keeping both.
The little girl has long hair sticking over her hooves. Makes her pasterns look funny. It's just hair though.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Wow, they are flashy. I hear ya on getting those kids to behave for photos. They can't seem to sit still for more than a millisecond lol!


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

How about these two?

Aellie, yearling ND doe








Callie, Kiko/Nubian doe, almost 3 weeks old here. She doesn't look like a cross, does she?


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Aellie - 

Pros - 
deep
long body
high withers
strong loin
deep brisket
deep muzzle
withers smoothly blended into topline
neck smoothly blended into withers
smooth withers
deep barrel
broad forehead

Cons - 
canons not in line with pins
short canons
weak rear legs
short neck 
chubby neck
weak chine
short rump
steep rump
brisket could be smoother


----------



## Petra490

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Wow, they are flashy. I hear ya on getting those kids to behave for photos. They can't seem to sit still for more than a millisecond lol!


I'm used to my laid back full size Nubians. These two gremlins are crazy. Mama finally gave up and stopped chasing after them. She decided to just relax and graze. Couldn't keep up, poor thing. These two are everywhere at once and at a supersonic speed, lol.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Callie - 

Pros - 
long rump
long body
strong topline
nice depth
long neck
strong front legs
well angled rear legs
straight canons
strong rear legs
canons in line with pins
short pasterns
deep muzzle
smoother withers

Cons - 
slightly steep rump
weak front pasterns 

She is gorgeous


----------



## Cedar Point Kikos

Thank you!


----------



## lkmartin1230

I have a few but I need to get better pictures first.


----------



## chiwapacreek

I'm considering buying this girl...what do y'all think?


----------



## nicolemackenzie




----------



## nicolemackenzie

I brightened it up so you can see her topline better.

Pros
Strong prominent brisket 
Nice front end assembly 
Okay topline and rump

Cons
Long pasterns
Maybe too much angle in the rear legs
Could use a longer neck
Could use a smoother topline especially from the loin through rump 

Generally a nice looking kid.

Do you have a photo of dam's udder?


----------



## chiwapacreek

the one on the left. They said it came in uneven this year but last year she won these







Here is mom.


----------



## chiwapacreek

She is only 5 weeks


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

She looks promising, I would go for it


----------



## JK_Farms

I agree go for it she sure is cute!


----------



## nicolemackenzie

I agree. She looks like she'll have mom's front end and should be productive.


----------



## chiwapacreek

I paid the deposit haha. Her mom and dad are both champions so I think she will be a valuable asset to my farm. The farm I'm buying from is selling out to spend more time with their family so she is basically a steal


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Post more photos when you get her


----------



## Goat_Scout

I'd like someone to critique my little doe, Midge. Right now she is a 13 months old, but in the pictures she was 8-9 months I think (besides the last picture, it was taken when she was 2-3 months old). Not the best pictures, but all I've got for now.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Midge - 

Pros - 
Strong front legs
Nice withers 
Nice brisket
Ok length to body
Straight face profile 
Good depth
Ok topline
Broad forehead
Strong rear pasterns 
Good thighs 
Well blended from neck to brisket 

Cons - 
Short rump
Steep rump
Weak front pasterns
Wedge could be better
Short neck
Canons not in line with pins
Short canons


----------



## MoonShadow

Anyone want to do Dandy and Jane. I Shaved them, it looks patchy(mainly Dandy because that stinker won't stay still!!) so don't look at that lol. I have to do touch-up up work. Plus Dandy's feet need trimming(they make her pasterns look weak, but they really aren't bad once she's trimmed properly), she broke out of the milk stand before I could get to those. :evil::evil: I have to work back up the strength to goand touch everyone up. Lol:sigh:

It was a little tricky getting them to stay still, and then set them up properly for the pictures, so these are the only good pictures I was able to get. They are milked out in their body shots, so you won't be able to see a good side udder view, I don't mind though. And now that I look at it, Jane is not standing on even ground,:sigh: but oh well. Lol


----------



## JK_Farms

They both have ok top lines their rumps are short and steep(not too bad). They have nice long slender necks! That's all I have I'm still learning on this! They're super cute tho!


----------



## teejae

What about my beautiful Toggenburg this pic was last weekend Teejae Mazerati she took out Champion Toggenburg,Reserve Grand Champion all breeds and her Grand daughter took out Champion doe kid all breeds :fireworks:


----------



## teejae

Forgot she is in kid so was dry and her dam is my avatar


----------



## CrazyDogLady

Ok, I am new at this, but I think I'm getting a better eye.

Dandy pros
Nice dairy wedge shape, I really like that
Long graceful neck
Uphill topline
Nice tight shoulders
Nice angles to the back legs

Cons
Neck could blend better
Udder could be higher, how long of a fill was that?
Rump is short
Not much briscuit

I like her, how old is she?


----------



## MoonShadow

She's a 3yr old FF. I believe it was a 12hr fill, but I think im going to start bumping her up becuse even at 12hrs it wasn't completly full, she has quite a large productive udder.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Jane - 

Pros - 
Deep 
Long
Slender neck
Ok wedge
Strong canons
Good dairy character
Strong brisket
Strong front legs
Short pasterns
Deep muzzle
Strong rear legs
Deep face
Straight face profile

Cons - 
Short rump
Steep rump
Low withers
Topline could be smoother
Dip in neck
Could be more upright
Hocks turn in
Short canons
Posty rear legs

Udder - 

Pros - 
Nice shape
Good teat size
Even halves
Strong rear attachments

Cons - 
Teats should be farther forward in side shot
Lumpy front attachment
Weak medial
Teats too far to the sides
Teats point outward


----------



## MoonShadow

Question, I've read that you don't want a rump that is perfectly level, you want a slight angle to it because you can have kidding and post kidding drainage problems with a perfectly level rump. Is this not correct, Or am I misinterpreting? I've always thought, based off that, that their rumps were not steep or at least not by much??


----------



## Ranger1

You are right, but with your does, you want a tad more levelness and length. No, they aren't the steepest rumps I've seen. 
For example, this Nigerian doe has a nice rump-not totally flat, but fairly level. http://www.kwfarms.com/dragonflyrywicked.htm


----------



## MoonShadow

Ahhh, I see. Thank you for explaining!!


----------



## CrazyDogLady

I like this FB group, Nigerian Dwarf Goats - the dairy side. Someone asked for pics of E rumps. Interesting to see. I also asked when I picked up my last doe from Dills if I could see her high appraising does. Well, ok, I walked around and gawked at her lovely herd.


----------



## lkmartin1230

1st-Dixie 1 week old; dam:Mini Nubian sire:Nigerian Dwarf
2nd-Sassy F2 MN
3rd-Also Sassy
4th-Shadow F1 MN
5th-Sweet pea; Dam:MN, Sire:ND
I apologize for the pictures, Shadow especially because she is not at all set up, so not sure how much you can judge her from that.


----------



## Nyjah

This is Fajitas! She is half alpine, half nubian and loves to yell! Id like critique so i know what to look for in a buck to improve upon her (besides attitude which needs improvement).


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

She is just gorgeous  I'll try to critique her soon!


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Dandy - 

Pros - 
Good width to rump
Long 
Deep
Good wedge
Long neck
High withers
Strong front legs
Deep muzzle
Short pasterns
Smooth shoulder
Good dairy character
Strong loin

Cons - 
Short rump
Steep rump
Lacks brisket
Weak canons
Weak pasterns
Posty rear legs
Hocks turn in
Dip in neck
Withers could be more smoothly blended into neck
Weak chine
Loose elbows

Udder - 

Pros - 
Good capacity
Ok arch
Nice shape
Even sides
Teats pointing down

Cons - 
Weak rear attachments
Teats too far to the sides
Weak medial
Small teats


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Teejae's togg doe - 

Pros - 
Good dairy character
Long
Deep
Good wedge
Strong brisket
Deep brisket
Strong front legs
Long face
Deep muzzle
Long topline
Level topline
Strong topline
Smooth withers
Long rump
Short pasterns
Strong canons
Strong front pasterns 

Cons - 
Steep rump
Posty rear legs
Short canons
Weak rear pasterns
Short neck
Chubby neck
Withers could be higher

She is beautiful


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

It's hard to give an accurate critique when they're really young. Post more photos as Dixie gets older! She is cute as a button


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Sassy - 

Pros - 
Long 
Deep
Good wedge
High withers
Smooth withers
Strong front legs
Deep muzzle
Strong loin
Strong brisket

Cons - 
Short rump
Steep rump
Short canons
Short neck
Weak chine


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Shadow. This is a bit short because she is standing in an odd position in the photo. 

Pros - 
Long body
Short pasterns
High withers
Deep muzzle
Strong topline

Cons - 
Short canons
Posty rear legs
Short front legs
Short neck
Short rump
Steep rump


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Sweet Pea - 

Pros - 
Long
Deep
Long neck
Strong brisket
Well angled rear legs
Deep face
Ok topline
Smooth withers
Withers well blended into topline
Strong brisket
Deep brisket

Cons - 
Short rump
Steep rump
Short canons
Dip in neck
Withers could be higher


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Flipping Fajitas' photo around...

Edit - and adding the other one so they're side by side.


----------



## Suzanne_Tyler

Fajitas - 

Pros - 
Long
Deep
Strong topline
Level topline
Long topline
Ok length to rump
Upright
Strong brisket
Long neck
Slender neck
Smooth withers
Strong canons
Strong front legs
Withers smoothly blended into neck
Smooth shoulder
Tight elbows
Nice wedge
Good width between eyes
Short rear pasterns

Cons - 
Low withers
Hocks turn in
Rump could be wider
Steep rump
Lacks brisket
Weak pasterns
Posty rear legs
Canons not in line with pins

Udder - 

Pros - 
Long teats
Nice shape
Teats point down
Even halves
Strong medial

Cons - 
Uneven teats
Teats too far to the sides
Arch could be higher and wider


----------



## MoonShadow

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Dandy -
> 
> Pros -
> Good width to rump
> Long
> Deep
> Good wedge
> Long neck
> High withers
> Strong front legs
> Deep muzzle
> Short pasterns
> Smooth shoulder
> Good dairy character
> Strong loin
> 
> Cons -
> Short rump
> Steep rump
> Lacks brisket
> Weak canons
> Weak pasterns
> Posty rear legs
> Hocks turn in
> Dip in neck
> Withers could be more smoothly blended into neck
> Weak chine
> Loose elbows
> 
> Udder -
> 
> Pros -
> Good capacity
> Ok arch
> Nice shape
> Even sides
> Teats pointing down
> 
> Cons -
> Weak rear attachments
> Teats too far to the sides
> Weak medial
> Small teats


Thank you Suzanne!!!!

Got Dandy LA'd today, thought I'd post the results. Your Critique was pretty spot on!! Why did I pay to go to LA when I have you guys!! Lol:shades::lol:

Stature- 29
Stength- 28
Dairyness- 33
Rump angle- 28
Rump width- 24
Rear leg side view- 23
Fore udder attachment- 32
Rear udder height- 33
Medial- 16
Udder Depth- 29
teat placement rear view- 18
Teat Diameter- 24
Rear udder side view- 31
head- E
Shoulder Assembly- +
Legs Front- +
Feet- A
Back- V
Rump- V
Udder Texture- +
General appearnce- +
Dairy Strength E
Body- E
Mammary- V
Final Score 87


----------



## lkmartin1230

Thanks Suzanne


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## teejae

Australian Toggenburg breed standard, general appearance ,robust dairy type,leggings is undesirable,Head medium length,facial line straight,eyes set well apart,ears erect and pointing forward,muzzle broad and strong.Neckclean at junction with head and blended smoothly into shoulders,with or without tassels .Backlinestrong,straight and horizontal to hips.Forequarters Fine Withers with shoulders sloping and blending into body.Chest full between the forelegs fairly deep in does.Barrel,length proportionate to height.Ribcage well rounded large deep and wedged shaped body.
HHindquarters Gradual slope from hips to tail,good width between hips and between Thurls.
Rump broad and strong ,pin bones wide and prominant
Legs well boned strong straight and parallel
Udder carrying well uptake back and broadly attached with good fore development,showing good capacity.
Skin colour fawn to brown,soft. Teats well attached pointing slightly forward,
This is fro our breed standard book,teejae


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## margaret

Sorry I've been absent so long!
Busy with show season.
Are there any goats that need done?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I think we are caught up now


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## Goat_Scout

Could someone please critique my little Nubian buck Geoffrey? He is a little too young (not even 3 weeks old), but I'd still like to hear what you have to say!
I'll probably post more pictures of him when he's older.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

I like his length and rear legs. Nice high withers and long neck. Weak chine and steep rump are the main cons I'm seeing.


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## margaret

Could use more length if body and a smoother front end as well. Definitely get us some pics when he gets older though


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## nicolemackenzie

I'd like to see him longer and more smoothly blended.

Looks to have nice rear leg angulation.

Nice long ears!

I think he has potential. Will be nice to see how he matures.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Cookies and Cherry, twin Mini Alpine sisters


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Anyone?


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## margaret

I'll do Cherry


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## margaret

Cherry 
Cons:
Slight ewe neck
Cleaner throat latch
More dairy neck
Longer neck
More brisket
More smoothly blended in the front end
Hocks too far back
Hocks and pins don't line up

Pros:
Upstanding 
Strong front legs
Straight front legs
Level topline
Strong topline
Strong chine
Smooth topline
Smooth blending from chine into the loin
Nice rump angle
Pretty good angulation to the rear legs
Strong rear legs
Strong rear pasterns
Good depth of barrel
Good body capacity 

I'm on a phone, and out of practice so sorry if that's short!


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## mariella

Wanting some critiquing done on my girls please 
in order is Peony, Orchid, Blossom, And Maddy


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## NewbieNubian

Anybody wanna critique my new boy Ragnar? Can offer pics of some of his parents and grandparents if desired. Pictured at four months.

EDIT: Added "family photos". Do not have a pic of his Dam. She is a FF. But we have...

Sire (as kid)
Dam of sire
Sire of sire (and also sire of maternal granddam)
Sire of dam
Dam of Dam (side and rear, pictured as a yearling FF)


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## Suzanne_Tyler

^^Claimed!!! He is gorgeous


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Mariella, I will do yours today as well.


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## NewbieNubian

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> ^^Claimed!!! He is gorgeous


I added some family photos as well Suzanne.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

NewbieNubian's buckling - 

Pros - 
long body
nice wedge
level topline
strong front legs
strong brisket
long neck
dairy neck
tight elbows
nice curve to thigh
deep muzzle
smooth withers
fairly level rump
withers well blended into topline
good dairy strength and character throughout

Cons - 
brisket could be stronger and deeper
hocks not in line with pins
withers could be slightly higher
neck more smoothly blended into brisket
knobby knees
just barely weak chine


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Peony - 

Pros - 
deep
well angled rear legs
ok length
good wedge 
deep muzzle
long rump
long neck
deep around heart girth
standing square

Cons - 
steep rump
loose brisket
weak pasterns
dip in neck
loose elbows
withers could be higher
withers could be smoother
spindly rear legs
neck could be more smoothly blended throughout


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Orchid - 

Pros - 
good breed character
strong front legs
long neck
neck smoothly blended into brisket
smooth withers
high withers
long body
nice wedge
short pasterns
smooth shoulder

Cons - 
short rump
steep rump
brisket could be deeper
loose elbows
withers could be sharper

Sorry this is a bit short, she's standing in an interesting position in the photo.


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## mariella

Sorry I know she's standing funny. She was trying to walk away 


Suzanne_Tyler said:


> Sorry this is a bit short, she's standing in an interesting position in the photo.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Blossom -

Pros -
strong front legs
strong loin
good Nubian ears
deep muzzle
nice wedge
smooth withers
high withers
strong canons
slender neck
tight elbows

Cons -
lacks depth of heart girth
not stand square or upright
posty
canons not in line with pins
weak chine
short neck
roman nose should be more pronounced
short canons
lacks brisket
short rump
steep rump


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Maddy - 

Pros - 
ok depth
good wedge
nice curve to thigh
deep brisket
smooth withers
long rump
short pasterns
strong pasterns
good length to canons
slender neck
strong loin
topline well blended into rump
deep muzzle 

Cons - 
knobby knees
canons not in line with pins
steep rump
weak chine
short neck
low withers
not upright
lumpy brisket


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## gabby5946

Would anyone like to critique the buck that we're breeding my doe to?


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## Suzanne_Tyler

gabby5946 said:


> Would anyone like to critique the buck that we're breeding my doe to?


Pros -
uphill
good wedge
broad chest
strong front legs
good roman nose
short pasterns
high withers
smooth withers
deep muzzle
level rump
long rump
strong loin
nice curve to thigh
strong brisket
tight elbows
masculine neck
sharp withers
smooth shoulder

Cons -
weak chine
weak front pasterns
lacks depth
lacks length
short canons
canons not in line with pins
short face
thick neck
poor nubian ears
weak rear legs


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## Dairy_goat

I haven't logged on TGS in MONTHS! This is my doe kid from may. Would love for someone to critique her.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Dairy_goat said:


> I haven't logged on TGS in MONTHS! This is my doe kid from may. Would love for someone to critique her.


Pros - 
long
deep
strong front legs
front legs directly beneath shoulder
nice curve to thing
strong canons
nice wedge
wattles
good rear width
smooth withers
strong loin
rear toes point forward
good depth to barrel
nice teat size and placement
withers well blended into topline
deep muzzle

Cons - 
lose elbows
lacks brisket
steep rump
canons not in line with pins
long pasterns
weak pasterns
toes out in front legs
hocks turn in
slightly dished profile
short neck


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Bluebell


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

Ack! Where's my wapping stick?! You do not put a dished profile in the cons on a swiss breed! And you guys STILL haven't listened to me about the freaking chine! Its a good thing I'm not dead yet, I can't roll in my grave lol!
It can't be that I'm a bad teacher, so it must be you guys lol!!
And in the two cases above with the "cannons not in line with pins"... sickle my dear, the term you're looking for is sickle 

Do you want me to do my yearly critique, I don't believe I've done it yet  I can do Bluebell if you would like, mind you, I'm ruthless!


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## Little-Bits-N-Pieces

And these emojis you guys..... ugh!


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## margaret

Teach us, oh wonderful one
I feel your pain with the whole emoji thing. Mean they are, very mean


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Little-Bits-N-Pieces said:


> Do you want me to do my yearly critique, I don't believe I've done it yet  I can do Bluebell if you would like, mind you, I'm ruthless!


Yes please


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## goatgirlpwr

Thoughts on this guy? I am having a hard time evaluating him.I know these pictures are not the best but I had no help with the camera. he has a short stocky(really muscular) neck. but when standing out in the pasture he has nice width thorough out and depth of body. His dam is the ugliest of my does but she was out my husbands favorite doe so I gave her a chance, she is now a 2yr old FF.


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## Nichole

How old is best to start with critiquing? We have 2 Saanens, buck is 4 weeks, and doe is 2 weeks. We are brand new to dairy goats, and we would love to have some feedback.


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## Suzanne_Tyler

Nichole said:


> How old is best to start with critiquing? We have 2 Saanens, buck is 4 weeks, and doe is 2 weeks. We are brand new to dairy goats, and we would love to have some feedback.


It's best to wait until they're several months old, though you can tell some things early on.


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## Nichole

Suzanne_Tyler said:


> It's best to wait until they're several months old, though you can tell some things early on.


Thank you. I will wait until they are older. I dont think I could get them still long enough for a good picture haha


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