# Is this a Hernia?



## Skyz84

This little buck was running a terrible fever a few days ago 104-106! No obvious signs of illness. Alert, eating, clear eyes and nose. But his belly button was swollen. Not red or hot, just puffy. I'm THINKING that was the source of the infection, but not sure.

This is his belly button now. He has been on Pen G twice daily for 5 days. His temps have been normal for over 48 hours. I'm thinking it's a hernia because I can push it back in. It also changes. Sometimes it's bigger and sometimes it's smaller. Depend on which angle I move him to. It doesn't go away completely.... just sometimes its a full circle and other times it looks 1/2 empty. Not sure if that makes any since. I will try and get a few more pictures when I can get someone to hold him.

Is there anything I can do while it is still small? Will it go away with age? If it doesn't go away, can I still show him?

Just wanted a few opinions. I know with dogs they do surgery but I'm not going to put a buck under surgery if it's minor and won't interfere with anything.

I'm thinking just letting it be and see what happens as he matures? Suggestions?


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## Zarafia

I knew two horses with umbilical hernias (they were half sisters, same sire) and both were small hernias and no surgery was done. A vet was consulted both times. THeirs looked bigger than the actual hole in the muscle wall. You could feel the fingertip sized hole in both of them. It was smooth and hard around and you could push your finger right in the hole.


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## Skyz84

Yep, I'm able to push my finger up into some kind of small opening. Whatever my finger goes into is not much bigger around then my finger and I'm afraid to push too hard. Don't want to hurt anything. But on a 9lb goat, 1 finger tip sized hole seems big to me. LOL 

I do feel something in the bubble... It's not hard.. but it feels a little like tissue. Not much of it.. but something is up in there. :whatgoat:


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## potentialfarm

How old/big is he? Some of my kids seem to have belly buttons that protrude a lot when they are really young... seems to disappear as they mature. I've had a few bucks that, when really young, their belly button was larger than other parts of their male anatomy ~ if you know what I mean. :wink: I think there is a muscle weakness (in all creatures that have umbilical cords) that don't close up right away, that's why I was wondering about his age...could be something that will repair itself... ?


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## Skyz84

potentialfarm said:


> How old/big is he? Some of my kids seem to have belly buttons that protrude a lot when they are really young... seems to disappear as they mature. I've had a few bucks that, when really young, their belly button was larger than other parts of their male anatomy ~ if you know what I mean. :wink: I think there is a muscle weakness (in all creatures that have umbilical cords) that don't close up right away, that's why I was wondering about his age...could be something that will repair itself... ?


That's what my thought on this was.. Just let it be but I want to try to show him so IF something should be done for it I want to do it sooner then later.

He is about 7 weeks old and 9lbs. So really young...


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## potentialfarm

I just went to check the 5 week old's (all girls though) & there's no give (as in a gap in the muscle). The only boy (6 days old) is in a barn further away & it's pouring rain. I am going to check him tomorrow, as I am curious now! I believe that, even in human males, there is a slightly higher chance of an umbilical hernia. It's due to the male muscle formation, and doesn't always get bad enough to warrant "fixing". Meaning that it stays very small (almost unnoticeable). Hope that is all that is up with your little guy & he may just "outgrow" it as he smashes around (like all goat kids) & builds more muscle.


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## toth boer goats

Hernia's can be fixed....just be sure to get a vet.. that knows about putting a goat under anesthesia... as it is risky.... :hug:


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## potentialfarm

I did check my (only) boy today...6 days old & there is NO gap in the muscle at the umbilical cord. I was hoping to give you encouragement, but... it looks like your boy possibly does have a hernia.  I guess it's just a matter of figuring out how bad it really is...hopefully it's not that bad & he will "outgrow" it. :hug:


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## KW Farms

A side picture would help...but I think it does look and sound like a small hernia.

An umbilical hernia really isn't that big a deal if it's small. I have a horse with one and the vet recommended to just leave it as it causes no issues. I wouldn't be too concerned, but I wouldn't use him as a breeding buck, I would just wether him. The location isn't very good for a buck.


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## Skyz84

*Re: Is this a Hernia? ~ Ideas on using a belly wrap/band to *

Here is a side picture. 









I could take him to the vet but I really don't trust the vet.  Two weeks ago a lady I know took her two buck kids to be wethered and one died the next day. They were put under for the castration so I'm assuming it was a side effect of the anesthesia.

Anyone ever try using a band of some sort to hold it in so that maybe it can heal? I could make some kind of band to wrap around his belly to hold it inside. Maybe as he grows it will close up?

He's our new herd sire so wethering him is not an option unless he throws kids that have the same problem. Judging by his high fever I'm hoping this is related to an infection and not genetic. I'm finding a information that says it can be caused from navel ill. Also seeing that it is a disqualification so he can't be shown if it doesn't heal up =/

Really hoping that putting some kind of band around his belly will help it heal. Can it hurt anything? Really would like some ideas for trying to correct this. I'm really worried it will continue to get larger as he grows? Is that possible or worse case scenario it will stay the same size?

Sorry if I'm being paranoid.


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## KW Farms

You could try the body wrap, but do not band or clamp it. That wouldn't fix the problem, it would just tighten the skin there and hold it tighter, but the problem is still there.

Umbilical hernias are not genetic. If it is infected it may be partially swollen and reduce in size once healed, but I haven't dealt with a umbilical infection before so I couldn't tell ya for sure.

The hernia may get larger as he grows or not...but if it's true hernia, it will not be 100% corrected without surgery. But I personally would still consider wethering him, whether he was intended to be a breeding buck or not. :hug:


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## Skyz84

KW: Just wondering... If it's not genetic then why would he need to be wethered? I could understand if it is something that is passed on to his kids, that would be bad. But if it's not genetic, why?


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## KW Farms

Because of the location. That hernia is a very weak spot and a breeding buck, rubbing that area during breedings can be dangerous and painful. Not to mention a flaw like that is against breed standard. I think technically he would not be registerable...though I don't know if you are breeding registered goats.

I'm doing some reading on it since i'm curious...what i'm finding is it is possibly genetic and can be passed on. The research i've done has been with horse hernias...what I found is that they were not genetic...but i'm reading here that goat umbilical hernias are genetic so I don't know...getting some mixed info. on it. I'd do some research on it for sure though before I was to use him as a buck. 

Just my two cents.


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## Skyz84

Well that makes since. I don't know. Going to give it a few weeks and talk to his breeder. I care about what's best for the goat, but I spent a LOT of money on him. To just turn him into a wether would pretty much be the end of my hopes for breeding registered goats. :sigh: Not to mention I put a down payment on 2 registered girls to breed to him in spring :sigh: 

Hopefully this is something he can outgrow or be fixed. Maybe it's just left over swelling from navel ill. Going to go to figure out a belly wrap and try really hard not to worry about it for a few weeks.


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## KW Farms

Reading in a goat medicine book...it says umbilical hernias are probably hereditary. :shrug:

If you purchased him recently, I would want my money back most likely. If I sold a goat and not long after developed an umbilical hernia, I would probably give a refund. Did you notice anything when you purchased him?

It would be better to start out with a buck with no issues then to use a buck with a potential flaw and get kids from him that you may have to go back and correct upon later down the road. That would just be setting yourself up for issues later on and it wouldn't be good to start out like that. :hug: You shouldn't give up hope breeding registered goats if you decide to wether him. His breeder should probably help you out, whether that be a refund, partial refund, or replacement. But again that would depend on when you got him and if his issue was known at the time.


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## Zarafia

In horses umbilical hernias are definitely considered hereditary. I was origionally sworn to secrecy about the two sister mares that had it because their sire was locally famous. But he passed away a few years ago so I can talk about it now.


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## KW Farms

Actually, for the most part, they are not considered hereditary.

This is from a vet site.
"Umbilical hernias can result from tearing of the cord prematurely at birth, infection, trauma, or failure of the abdominal wall to properly close. During fetal development, the umbilical cord serves as a carrier of nutrients from the mare to the foal, and as a removal pathway of waste products from the foal to the mare. At, and immediately after birth, the cord transfers blood to the foal. There is no need for manual severance of the cord after birth, as it will break on its own after adequate blood transfer is complete. Severance usually occurs (naturally) when the mare stands up and the foal is still lying down. *There is no known link to genetic causes of umbilical hernias in horses."*


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## Zarafia

THis was twelve years ago and the stallion owner was paranoid (though not very ethical IMO). 
But she was convinced it was hereditary and he produced two daughters out of different mares with it.


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## Jessica84

I belive it is hereditary. Our stud bred 15 mares and 8 came out with a hernia. 
I just want you to know something about a hernia, its not so much a issue, but there is a chance the intestin will go into it and will start to heal, cutting into it and kill him. My dads high school best friend died that way, so when I enede up getting one when I was prego, even though it was not that big had it fixed. and actualy mine was some how healing onto my intestin. 
Im not telling you TO go to the vet, just letting you know their is a chance something might happen. It also might heal on its own. A mare out of those 8, her hernia healed and can not tell anyting ever was wrong with her.


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## Zarafia

I knew a stallion who died from a complication of a testicular hernia. A loop of gut fell into his scrotum. I think it was a terrible way for him to die. But they had not known about the hernia.


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## Skyz84

My feeling is this is from a navel infection. His tempature is going up again. I shaved him down in case it's due to the heat. He is not used to our heat. If he keeps spiking a temp I'm putting him back on antibiotics. Maybe he still has an infection in his navel.... Guess we will see what today brings


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## toth boer goats

> My feeling is this is from a navel infection. His tempature is going up again. I shaved him down in case it's due to the heat. He is not used to our heat. If he keeps spiking a temp I'm putting him back on antibiotics. Maybe he still has an infection in his navel.... Guess we will see what today brings


 You know ...that may be the issue...it may need draining..... but be careful.... I think a vet should be seen.... but....I know some vets ...don't know much.... :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm

Sorry I have not been around on here and did not see this. 

This is a boy that I bred here in NJ. He was not born like this and when he left me at 4 weeks old his umbilical area looked to have healed normal. I dip in iodine and use navel clamps. 

He went to MA for 2 weeks prior to his flight to TX and was not in my care but was fully checked out by a vet for flight health cert. (not my vet). 

Now I wonder... 1 what could have caused it? The temp was spiking high once he got to TX so I assume some sort of infection. But how did infection get in once the area was healed and dried up?
2 if he was not born like that and developed it later I would feel safe to say it is not genetic. can something genetic present after a month of age?
3. He was shipped on some sort of strong pine bedding could it be a allergic reaction?
4. I would love for him to go to a vet but does anyone know a good vet in the SanAntonio area. The one Shannon knows is not really a good hope. 
5. I am a responsible breeder and always check over the goats often. Those going as bucks are only from dams with great udders, good production and proper to breed standard. I check many times the teats and testicles and all known places that can have genetic issues. I am so very sorry that this boy has developed this issue and would do the right thing if needed to remedy the issue. It would be a shame to have to wether him since his dam is so very nice and since he is the perfect herdsire for Shannon and her new registered goats. 

Good vet reference appreciated.


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## freedomstarfarm

Got ahold of a reproductive specialist in Shannons area and talked with him a bit. 

He says that it sounds really small and would not hinder reproduction. Umbilical hernia from birth can be genetic and that is associated with a weak lining to the abdomen. Genetic hernia in goats he says is common but is there from birth. 

He says that since there is redness to the area and temp spikes that most likely this hernia is being caused by infection and is not genetic.

He does work with goats and although booked weeks in advance said that he would see Tex. Will keep you all updated with verdict.


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