# Kid fed milk from CAE positive goat



## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

I am new to goats so know very little about them. I bought a little doe and the breeder send plenty of frozen goats milk with me for her, trying to assure her a good start. Just found out the milk came from a CAE positive Doe.  My kid started out on her mother, not CAE positive. We now have her on cows milk, she is doing great. Does this mean the chance of her being CAE positive is 100% She is about 6 weeks old.


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## Kaneel (Oct 7, 2012)

Oh wow O.O That's horrible! I found this article regarding the subject...I hope she turns out OK!
http://goatbeat.net/index.php?topic=10080.0;wap2


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

Before getting panicky...are you sure this wasn't pasteurized milk? And also, how do you know it was from a CAE positive doe? CAE isn't a death sentence.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

mjs500doo said:


> Before getting panicky...are you sure this wasn't pasteurized milk? And also, how do you know it was from a CAE positive doe? CAE isn't a death sentence.


The breeder had the goat the milk came from tested because she was selling her, the test came back positive. The milk was not heat treated and was frozen. We have become very attached to our little girl and are thinking of having her spade if she tests positive and just keeping her around as a pet.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

I've been searching the internet but haven't gotten any info yet. Want to know if drinking the milk means 100% she will have it.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

91baby said:


> I've been searching the internet but haven't gotten any info yet. Want to know if drinking the milk means 100% she will have it.


It's not always 100% as she's more likely to have gotten it from colostrum than regular milk. Like I said, CAE is not a death sentence. A doe can live a long healthy life with CAE. Start a CAE prevention program. Your doe can still be bred safely, but use her milk for your own consumption or animal consumption. Look into a pasteurizer for her kids. You will have to pull them though and bottle raise.


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

I knowingly purchased a doeling from a beautiful CAE doe. The breeder uses CAE prevention as it is in their herd. I am not worried about my doeling having it, but will have her tested prior to feeding her baby(ies) raw milk however.


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## audrey (Jul 17, 2012)

If you aren't really attached to her yet, I personally would return her and get your $$ back and maybe find a different breeder. It sounds like there is a possibility that a lot of her kid have been exposed. I wouldnt want to risk it. Yes a goat can live a long time without any symptoms, but they can also go the other way and show symptoms and have a painful life.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

audrey said:


> If you aren't really attached to her yet, I personally would return her and get your $$ back and maybe find a different breeder. It sounds like there is a possibility that a lot of her kid have been exposed. I wouldnt want to risk it. Yes a goat can live a long time without any symptoms, but they can also go the other way and show symptoms and have a painful life.


Fed it to 4 kids. We will use reputable breeders in the future. Unfortunately we are very attached to her. Will keep her for pet, not breeding and be smarter in the future.


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## lottsagoats (Dec 10, 2012)

Most CAE free herds started with CAE+ stock and pulled the kids at birth, raising them on pasteurized colostrum and milk. Back when I started with goats, CAE was just being recognized so a high % of dairy goats had it. I went with the CAE protocol and pulled all the kids from CAE+ does. After 1 generation my kids were CAE- and could once again raise their own kids.

The colostrum is 100% sure to pass the CAE virus form a CAE+ doe. The milk not as high of odds. That is because the antibodies (and CAE virus) pass into the kids body in the first 12-14 hours of life form the colostrum. Once the lining of the intestines close, (so to speak), the only way for the virus to gain access to the blood stream is thru an open wound. Kind of like AIDS/HIV.

Test the kid at about 6 months of age, or 3 months after her last bottle, then again at a year. You may be surprised that she is CAE-.

A higher % of CAE+ does are not symptomatic and will go thru life, or at least a good portion of their life, free of the signs of the disease.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

pretty much whats been said...yes they have been exposed..yes there is a very high chance she will be a carrier...the only sure way to know is to test them at 6 months...always test twice for confirmation no matter what the results...if you get two different results test again...Im so sorry this happened...


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

I would say there is a high probability that the doeling will now have CAE, but there is a chance that maybe she doesn't. You can always regularly test her and see what happens, who knows, maybe you got lucky and she didn't get it. :hug: What a shame the breeder didn't disclose this from the get go.



lottsagoats said:


> Most CAE free herds started with CAE+ stock and pulled the kids at birth, raising them on pasteurized colostrum and milk.


I disagree. MANY breeders have purchased only CAE tested neg. goats from the start and maintain a tested negative herd. Maybe that was normal way back when, but today? No...


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

lottsagoats said:


> Most CAE free herds started with CAE+ stock and pulled the kids at birth, raising them on pasteurized colostrum and milk. Back when I started with goats, CAE was just being recognized so a high % of dairy goats had it. I went with the CAE protocol and pulled all the kids from CAE+ does. After 1 generation my kids were CAE- and could once again raise their own kids.
> 
> The colostrum is 100% sure to pass the CAE virus form a CAE+ doe. The milk not as high of odds. That is because the antibodies (and CAE virus) pass into the kids body in the first 12-14 hours of life form the colostrum. Once the lining of the intestines close, (so to speak), the only way for the virus to gain access to the blood stream is thru an open wound. Kind of like AIDS/HIV.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that is encouraging. This is my first doe, kind of a bad way to start out, but a learning experience. Hopefully she will test negative but if not will be healthy and make a good pet.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I agree. She can still be bred just be strict about CAE prevention with her. It only passes through milk so that is the good thing and pasteurizing it kills CAE so you can use her milk just pasteurize it first


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## KW Farms (Jun 21, 2008)

CAE can be spread in more ways than through the milk alone. Other ways are less common, but still possible.


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

Ahh I always heard only through milk. Thanks for the clarification!


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## dobe627 (Oct 16, 2007)

Please please rethink spaying her. Goats aren't like most pet animals. They do poorly with anesthesia, often times it kills them. Unless you have the best goat vet ever. It will be easier to just not keep a buck. Just my 2¢. Hopefully she'll be fine


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

dobe627 said:


> Please please rethink spaying her. Goats aren't like most pet animals. They do poorly with anesthesia, often times it kills them. Unless you have the best goat vet ever. It will be easier to just not keep a buck. Just my 2¢. Hopefully she'll be fine


Thanks for the info, I did not know that.


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## keren (Oct 26, 2008)

dobe627 said:


> Please please rethink spaying her. Goats aren't like most pet animals. They do poorly with anesthesia, often times it kills them. Unless you have the best goat vet ever. It will be easier to just not keep a buck. Just my 2¢. Hopefully she'll be fine


I disagree. I have had many goats undergo general anaesthetic and have no problems whatsoever. As long as you have a competent anaesthesist who understands the differences between anaesthetising ruminants vs dogs/cats, there shouldnt be any higher risk.

People say the same thing about sheep - they dont do well with anaesthetic - yet in my work we routinely anesthetise sheep and they do very well whilst under and they recover very well. We do goats as well. The trick is in knowing that ruminants are different to dogs and cats and not treating them the same.

There is always a very small risk when anaesthetising any animal, it is not accurate to say that it "often kills them"


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## Dani-1995 (Mar 11, 2011)

I have to agree with dobe. We don't have any good goat vets here so I won't take a risk. If you have a goat vet then you should be fine.... but the average vet, even for horses, wouldn't know.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Mar 3, 2013)

I don't understand.... if the doeling was feed colostrum from a cae negative doe, and was fed cae positive milk later on, it will still risk getting cae? Is the risk the same with the milk as it is when just given colostrum from a cae positive source?


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## mjs500doo (Nov 24, 2012)

pridegoethb4thefall said:


> I don't understand.... if the doeling was feed colostrum from a cae negative doe, and was fed cae positive milk later on, it will still risk getting cae? Is the risk the same with the milk as it is when just given colostrum from a cae positive source?


Colostrum is higher concentrated for any disease. Johne's and CAE alike. The chances of ending up positive later in life are dramatically higher if baby was fed colostrum from an infected momma. Not only this, but baby readily absorbs what momma produces into the lining of the gut. Later in life, 3 months or so, the pores in the lining are much smaller, allowing only certain things pass thru. Anyway, feeding regular positive milk still does carry the chance, but it is not as high as colostrum.


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## Epona142 (May 26, 2008)

I had something similar happen. Was getting milk from a CAE- herd. Except for the fact that they leased a few does from a neighbor. Turns out one of the does was CAE+.

Sure enough, after testing the two bottle babies I raised with that milk, both came up CAE+.

Luckily they went on to great pet homes, and the farm (which I actually now work at and manage) gave me pick of the kid crop this year to make up for it and has really tightened down.

Still a real kick in the teeth, as I really liked those girls, but they had to go, especially since I moved to the farm and the entire property is CAE free.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

I be believe God placed a cure for everything on earth, it is just up to us to find it. Conventional medicine isn't always the answer. I have decided to treat her with immune building herbs "Immune St" from Molly's Herbals and "Colloidal Silver" which is supposed to kill virus, and Prayers. I will update in 4 months when I have her tested.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

If your goat comes out negative, it could have been that she was always negative. So it will really be hard to say if the herbs worked or not. Can't hurt anything to use, just not a guarantee that that would be why she would be negative.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

ksalvagno said:


> If your goat comes out negative, it could have been that she was always negative. So it will really be hard to say if the herbs worked or not. Can't hurt anything to use, just not a guarantee that that would be why she would be negative.


I understand that but the chances of her being negative are pretty slim.


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## elchivito (Apr 18, 2010)

91baby said:


> I be believe God placed a cure for everything on earth, it is just up to us to find it. Conventional medicine isn't always the answer. I have decided to treat her with immune building herbs "Immune St" from Molly's Herbals and "Colloidal Silver" which is supposed to kill virus, and Prayers. I will update in 4 months when I have her tested.


I'd do a bit more homework on silver before giving it to an otherwise healthy goat, or any other living thing. Read real studies on it's effectiveness, not just sales pitches and anecdotal evidence like "it cured my warts". Immune supporting herbs and supplements are a good idea. Silver is not such a substance. No mammal needs it nutritionally or biologically, in spite of what the hucksters say, there is precious little evidence that it kills bacteria, let alone viruses.


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

mjs500doo said:


> Colostrum is higher concentrated for any disease. Johne's and CAE alike. The chances of ending up positive later in life are dramatically higher if baby was fed colostrum from an infected momma. Not only this, but baby readily absorbs what momma produces into the lining of the gut. Later in life, 3 months or so, the pores in the lining are much smaller, allowing only certain things pass thru. Anyway, feeding regular positive milk still does carry the chance, but it is not as high as colostrum.


Does anyone have any statistics on what the % likelihood is with only milk, no Colostrum from negative doe.


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## happybleats (Sep 12, 2010)

> Does anyone have any statistics on what the % likelihood is with only milk, no Colostrum from negative doe.


If I understand correctly there is a higher probability she will be CAE infected than not...


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## 91baby (Jan 15, 2013)

91baby said:


> I be believe God placed a cure for everything on earth, it is just up to us to find it. Conventional medicine isn't always the answer. I have decided to treat her with immune building herbs "Immune St" from Molly's Herbals and "Colloidal Silver" which is supposed to kill virus, and Prayers. I will update in 4 months when I have her tested.


The test came back negative!  Thank you Lord She is 7 months old now, will test again before we breed just to be absolutely sure.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 6, 2009)

Glad she came back negative!


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## tenfairytoes (Oct 1, 2012)

kinda unrelated and kinda related. I tested my doe I bought and she's a 12 I know they don't have CAE until 29 but the 12 isn't sitting right with me. I'd feel better if it was like a 7 or you know..lower. Anyone else feel comfortable with the 12 number? I want to breed her with someone else's buck and I wanna relax about it, but how fast does the number jump up? New to CAE and some stuff says don't panic and some says AHHH basically.


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