# Oh.... goat drama - Buckling has gone to a new home :)



## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Okay I've tried to type this a couple of times and it ends up like a book LOL

I have a fullblooded doe I bought from a friend last summer, who brought her from her partner's farm. I bought her for next to nothing, and was promised papers.
Never have seen the papers, and am not going to ask anymore.

She kidded in April, twins. Keeping the doeling, selling the buckling. I have had him listed for sale for weeks and nobody wanted to buy him because he doesn't have papers  

On top of that I want to cull the mama. While the kids are okay, she is small boned, and I see her being a hard keeper. She was fed 2x as much while nursing than my other does and she is nothing but skin and bones. All my other does that kidded are about the same age as her too -2yo, 2 of them had kidded as a yearling, and they never looked this bad. She's been wormed, had fecals, etc. no issues there. 

Her buckling is extending and showing interest in his sister, so I had to seperate them last night. Put doeling back in with the does, and of course she at some point nursed on mama. 
They are seperated for now, but I wonder if I should just let the doeling go in with mama, or put mama with her buckling if they nurse...they nurse...? 
I typically sell on craigslist, have sold to some wonderful families, but with this doe not being friendly/pet quality, and being such a hard keeper for breeding/small boned as well, I wonder if the best thing to do for culling is to take her to the stockyard? I don't want to advertise a goat like this on craigslist. 
The next sell is in about 2 1/2 weeks. I don't see her putting on weight/making a difference before then...with or without having a kid on her.

Typically I'd be prepared, as far as weaning stuff goes. It's hard because she kidded 2 months after the other does so we couldn't wean the kids together. We tore down the old buck pen to use the fence to seperate the wooded area from the main pen area. We plan to make another buck pen, but not for a week or two.
Oh so frustrating!

I guess biggest thing is...I feel bad about culling the mama...and thinking the stockyard is going to be the only way to do it....Even though I am not bonded to her like my other girls..I do care about her. But financially I don't want a hard keeper, if she were pet quality that would be a different story...also my other does don't like her, she is ousted by them.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Oh that is not good...does that breeder really have paperwork on the Doe or was she telling you stories?

If you got her next to nothing....maybe that person is regretting it now and figures she wants more money from you.. to get those papers...if she indeed does have paperwork for that Doe....and if you really want the papers on her...for her kids sake ...I'd offer her a bit more money...sweeten up the pot.... but only after she produces those papers in front of you... :wink:

I sometimes let the doelings stay on longer...but ...I also make sure... the momma hasn't lost to much condition...and I have plenty of time later to dry her off before the next breeding takes place...... Also ..you may have to teach the doeling that there are 2 sides....watch her udder...

Some Does lose alot of condition but bounce back quickly ..when the kids are being weaned....

Was the Doe tested for any other diseases?
Was she tested for Cocci with those fecals?

If you feel... that the stock yard is the only way to sell her ...that may have to be it..... 

Weaning time is stressful for everyone...I know how you feel.... :hug:


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## Kimmerz Cali Kidz (Apr 30, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

 I'm sorry, wish I lived closer to help! I love caring for the "underdogs" 

I would take her and the little buck off your hands if it wasn't gonna be so expensive!! 
:scratch:

Wish I knew a better way to help! Good luck!


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Advertise her for sale with her buckling. Keep the doeling. 
Try again to get those papers so the kid can be registered and so the mom and buckling can be sold easier. 
Good luck!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks so much. Pam, the vet told me he checked her fecal for everything, but I'll call him tomorrow and make sure he did check her for cocci.
I have offered to pay more for registration, etc. and still nothing. I've asked at least a dozen times for her paperwork... I'm over it  
I will never buy another goat that is registered without getting paperwork at time of sale...friend or no friend.

If she were more like my other does --friendly/loving-, had some size to her, and wasn't such a hard keeper I wouldn't have had to post this except the worry about keeping everyone seperated. Oh how I can't wait to get another pen built!

This is what she looked like last year right after we got her, this was taken Aug 12th


















The other pics I have of her are when she was pregnant but hard to see her body because she was soooo hairy! She's never put on size, when she was pregnant she was still bony, developed a belly, but her hips, and chest have never filled out.

This was today...sorry I just ran out to get a couple of pics and they all thought I had treats so they kept running her off - the girls don't like her 
I can get better pictures later when my kids can help

The only time she got near them...hard to see but those girls are the same age as her and see how much bigger they are, taller, and even for meat/dairy mix they have always been wider. The red doe in that picture favors the dairy side, she's not very wide at all, but she's wider than the boer doe.



























Her buckling is an average Joe, but he's such a sweetie, and I think he's going to be a handsome fella when he matures. He needs to fill out around his hips more, that's the only thing I can see that he really needs, but the first week or so of weaning was stressful for him, so I expected him to lose a little weight.









Please....Mom?









To me she just doesn't look like she has grown much at all. My other does, I can see a difference in them.

The pictures don't even begin to show how narrow bodied she is...she's little. My son's January doe is probably almost as tall as her, and probably weighs just as much as her.

My husband says we need to sell her. While I feel horrible, I too think she needs to go. But at the same time I don't want her ending up anywhere bad. I just don't know that a commercial breeder would want a small doe like her. I can definitely try an ad on craigslist... But I feel so bad about how she looks. I've done everything I can think of. I had to drop her down to feeding 1x a day because of weaning, her udder has been too full. But now that her doeling is with her....  My husband needs to help me figure this pen arrangement out when he gets home...since after all it was his idea to tear down my buck pen!


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Yeah...definitely check to see... if the vet checked for Cocci...it doesn't always show scouring... When was she last fecal tested?

She is small... she may of had worms or cocci issues as she was growing in her other home to make her stunted....doesn't mean that she won't produce well for you..and I see that you are happy with her kids...

She is really ran down by her kids that is for sure..... and man she has a good udder capacity there...maybe that is where all the good nutrients is going.... :thumb:

It is your decision to sell her or not you have to be happy.....and you are correct in saying that she is not an easy keeper...in which I feel the same way...I love the easy keepers...they go down some on their weight by the time their kids are of weaning age...but not a drastic amount....

I am sorry the paperwork didn't pan out....  But we live and learn... :hug:


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## mrs. lam (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

She is pretty. I like her face. I have had good luck with alfalfa cubes and sugar beet pulp. I've had a couple that took a long time to gain. You wouldn't be able to tell that today. :greengrin: Murray looks preggo.

Gina


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

I would definitely try selling them as a package deal on craigslist, give a good price for them. Advertise them as pasture goats or brush eaters, tell them she's a good kidder but not super friendly. Light bodied and better for clearing. A lot of people are just looking for goats to put in a field and let them eat. Or you should get in contact with that woman on here who wants to dump goats on an island   I could see her at least doing well there.

I guess my best suggestion is to really accentuate how sweet and good the buckling is, and then through in his mom as a bonus for quick pick up or something. Its tough though. I'm sorry you have to go through this.

IF it were me (and I'm very very soft) I'd keep her around and try to bulk her up like Gina said, plus if she throws big kids it could be worth it. But like I said, I can't send goats to the freezer or stockyard


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks so much everyone I appreciate it. It's great to have wonderful people I can talk to about my worries. Davy, I am the same way I totally dislike the idea of taking animals to a stockyard! That's why I have been so hesitant. Even though she's not very friendly, I don't want her ending up on someone's dinner table. And with the way she looks and all I don't see the commercial people who go and buy stock wanting her 

And thanks, I agree, she is a pretty girl  I think we'll leave her doeling with her for now and figure something out for Spencer. He's such a sweet boy, bless his heart. I had really hoped he would be in a new home before we came to this. I think he's much too nice to be a 'meat' goat. 
I need to work on getting a buck pen built as well as a shelter. I planned to do this, but not until the end of the month as I don't have much $$ for the project until then. We plan to buy a young buck in a couple of weeks, so if he isn't sold I hope he'd get along wtih an older buckling...

My original plan was shot down obviously, since I planned to sell him <with papers!!> to help buy another buck, or to trade him for a registered buckling that we could use for breeding <one we could eventually breed his sister/mama too in the future>.

So now I am just hoping he gets a good home, and I can get enough to help pay for the projects. The goal was to get the sales of the goats to help pay for the things we need for the goats....


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Goats like her dont stay in my herd. I don't like goats that require me to have to give special treatment because the other goats dont like them or because they need more food then the rest.

If she were here -- she would be on her way out. Not to be mean but if she isnt papered and she requires more food then a papered doe who holds her own weight better its really just not fair to your budget to keep her.

She doesnt look all that bad but seem im seeing her from a dairy goat perspective.

Maybe try putting up her old pictures and say "recent photos available upon request" and see if you get any interest. Mention she is older now and has kidded and is in the process of you trying to dry her off to build her condition back but you are retaining her doeling so the process is on hold till pens can be built.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks Stacey. I totally agree, I think she is going to really wreck havoc on my budget. I'm afraid if I get her back in shape, breed her, she kids, this might happen all over again.

She comes from bloodlines that should have her looking more filled out and 'meaty.' She shouldn't be so narrow, and so small bodied. 
She is currently only getting grain 1x a day starting this week, she eats with 2 other adults, and one young doe. I refuse to give her the special treatment anymore, so she learns to stand up for herself a little more. I fill the hay feeders every evening. Other girls are doing just fine, I just wish she was looking better too.

I think this picture actually makes her look good









We only have 7 goats right now so everyone is out in the front yard in the evening together to graze, we watch to make sure her kids don't nurse.
Not a great picture, but you can see her on the right, the doe on the left is a Jan doe <probably 75% boer, 25% nubian>, you can see how small she looks compared to that doe and her kids, and she's not got any width at all...









Her buckling is almost as big as her, he's such a pretty boy









He's MUCH bigger than his sister


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

She does throw some gorgeous kids!! You may be cutting losses here but offering her as a brush goat may be best, especially if it's not in her genetics to be thrifty, do whats best for your herd as well as what benefits you, I do hope that her daughter doesn't have the same issues when she kids out for you.


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## DavyHollow (Jul 14, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

These pictures make her look much better. . .. . Her kids are very pretty too


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks so much, I'll let you all know what I decide to do. It's been a hard decision  Even if she's not pet quality, I do care about her very very much. I wish I could get her dried up, I think she would certainly benefit if she weren't producing milk.


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## Farmgirl675 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

I have a "carbon copy" of your doe....when I bought her she looked good but I was told she was a hard keeper (she was part of a "whole heard" deal) and she is IF she is kept in a small area and fed hay and grain, once they were off quarantine and let out into the big pasture to eat to her hearts content she actually does better than the others and throws beautiful babies....just a thought but you may be able to market her to a home with "lots of room to roam". If I was closer I'd defintely be interested in her! JMHO but there is something to be said for a small thrifty doe who throws nice babies!


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## Tolers Boers (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

I'm in KY and may be interested i don't understand in all your posts are u selling her and the buck? or just the Buck? or just her. didn't see a price. no most people want papers as we do....however if she is tattooed or u know the registration name maybe u could go thru the Goat Assoc. under the farm name perhaps?

i might be interested in your goat or goats if i understood what you want for them.
this time of year most people want to buy to resale for slaughter as it is harder to feed and keep up thru winter season when u or they feel the way u do about her.
most goats have a pecking order and some time is required for them to accept into the main herd.

We rescue goats in her condition as we did two nubians.....you should see them now. o btw the nubian doeling was abused and people shy i can't keep her off me now. which i love and the little buck came with cause they didn't know the daddy it was an oops she got kids one died.. they certainly look 100% Nubian we just cant prove it yet. post back to me i want to understand.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

We've been trying to sell her buckling. He's trying to breed his twin sister  I've kept them together as long as I could, as we sold all our other buck kids over the summer, so he's a lone boy. We've been asking $150 for him.
I haven't really thought about a price on the doe yet. I say I'd take her to the stockyard next month, but I couldn't live with myself if a 'meat' buyer bought her. I'd never sell her for meat either.

She has no tattoo, and has never been registered. I know who her sire is , but not the dam. However most of their goats are closely related. There is a lot of Codi/PCI in the bloodline. She's tiny compared to the goats in my friends herd who are closley related to this doe.

I'm just frustrated I guess, and still very disappointing.

If I kept her, she'd not be ready to breed back any time soon that I can tell, and I don't want spring/summer kids <can't do anything with them, as most people want fall/winter kids>, so that means she'd have to stay open, which in turn means we could be short on 4-H kids for my kids next year, and I'd have to possibly buy a kid or two.... If I had more land I'd just turn her out, and do what I could for her, but we have just a couple of acres, and keeping a small herd.


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## Tolers Boers (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Look i take the doe and let her live peacefully get fat on our farm we have 4 acre with a creek. we too have small herd. i am for the underdog and u will not get much to nothing to take the doe to mkt. she won't bring nothing she dont weigh nothing.

as for your buckling we would not pay that as u have so far seen no one wants to pay that without registration. we might take him off your hands but far less than u want to be paid. we would be spending at least 60.0 on gas

we are in Monticello....we are not big meat goat breeders meaning nothing is sold for food. ours is like a hobby farm u might say. we have two registered boer doe and one reg nubian doe. next year we will add one reg boer male and one reg female as the one we have is mother to our buck. She was abused and skinny she is fat happy and very pet friendly now as we have time to spend with ours. all of them. we are retired.

we have paid around 50.00 for all our others as they have no registration.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks so much for the offer Tolers  My husband wants to see if we can get the buckling sold, if not, we'll build a pen and keep him and let him mature a little. I might be going to my breeder friends house tomorrow to see our buck we sold who is being kept at her place until his new owner could sell her buck. I'd like to see him before he leaves. So I might put one last attempt in at paperwork issue. And explain...if I don't get papers for the doe, then we're selling her to get a registered doe. After trying to think this through with a clouded mind, I really do want a registered doe, doesn't have to have a fancy pedigree, but something in my price range, and something that is friendly - that my kids will enjoy.

I'm not in a big hurry to sell the doe, I'm just more stressed out about seperating her from her kids - since we don't have the buck pen anymore it's really an obsticle. Her doeling is back with her part of the day, but as long as I can keep the buckling away from them both, I feel like I am accomplishing something LOL We have our main pen, and the wooded area. So mama, doeling and 2 others are in the woods browsing, and buckling is with our other two adult does in the main pen.

I'm not sure what kind of price we'll put on her, but I know if I take anything less than $125 I am seriously losing $$. I'm a stay at home mom, and trying to do most everything with the goats on my own. Hubby buys grain, but lately I've been trying to buy it, plus I have been buying hay, and then ALL the stuff the kids and their goats needed for 4-H <gas, food/drink for us, food/extras for goats, entry fees, etc. etc.>. The goats have to pay for themselves in a sense. We sold a doe and her Feb kid a few weeks ago, and they paid for the paint/primer for the barn, and rest of the $$ goes for supplies to get roofing on the barn addition/supplies to make barn doors.
Buckling being sold would help me pay for another buck. And selling this doe would help me pay for another doe. I don't want to have to pay too much extra out of pocket as I'd have to build a buck pen/shelter, plus with having to get hay.

I want to get a job, just so I can spend all my $$ on my goats...LOL Not sure my husband likes that idea? But I do! :laugh:


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## Tenacross (May 26, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

If she was mine and she was bumming me out like this doe is you,
I would put her on CL for $100 OBO, with pictures. Maybe include
pics of her kids. If she doesn't sell before, take her to the sale.
If I get to the point where I'm too attached to even my worst doe
to take her to the sale, I would either get out of goats or just keep
two or three wethers around. For me, goats are supposed to be fun,
so I intend to only keep around goats that make me happy. 
Also, for me, there are worse things that can happen to a goat
bred for meat than being eaten. And, around here the prices at 
the sale are sometimes higher than I see on CL.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Do you have a brush management goat herd near you?
Give them a call and say you have a Doe and her buckling for sale for $300 for both... and see if they will take them off your hands... they may make him a breeder or they may take just the Doe ... but worth a try....
if $150 is what you decide to sell her for.... if not ...think of a price... that is inviting to them... :hug:


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## Tolers Boers (Jul 4, 2011)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

i understand. if u run into trouble and cant do anything with her i will come get her and promise she will be farm sage. not meat on someone's table. if u can get money for her please do so...i know how tight and hard it is to lose money.

so like i said if u end up just needing a place to make her happy and healthy cause u can't sell her...just post me and i get to you. since we are in KY.

Good Luck and Blessings....for you and your doe. toth suggested check for a brush eating program in your area....they will probably pay you something for her and use her as a working goat.....good idea she suggested.

again Good Luck.


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

*Re: Oh.... goat drama*

Thanks so much, I am so glad I have wonderful friends here 

We sold the buckling today to a wonderful new home, I am so happy  He'll have a big farm to run on, and right now his buddy's are pygmy's but the people who bought him want to get some boer does. Can't ask for more than that.

I don't know of anyone around here that has brush goats, but I'll check. I'll most likely be listing her on craigslist soon. I'm going to let my breeder friend know before I do, and tell her the whole reason we wanted her was because she was supposed to be registered.

My hubby and I will talk again in a little while and we'll see what happens with the doe. We have to revamp our plan LOL


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Yep.. we are your friends... :grouphug:


Congrats on selling the buckling... I am glad to hear that....and he has a great home.... :greengrin: 

GOod luck with selling the Doe.... :thumb: :hug:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

Tolers Boers... you seem to have double banners on your posts.... :wink:


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## StaceyRosado (Oct 5, 2007)

thats because I added the picture to her signature and she had already uploaded the picture - the signature goes on all the posts retroactively


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## DulmesFamilyBoers (Feb 26, 2011)

:leap: Glad you were able to sell the buckling! That should make life easier!!


> For me, goats are supposed to be fun,
> so I intend to only keep around goats that make me happy.
> Also, for me, there are worse things that can happen to a goat
> bred for meat than being eaten


:thumb:


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

> thats because I added the picture to her signature and she had already uploaded the picture - the signature goes on all the posts retroactively


 Thanks Stacey....... :thumb:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

Glad you found him a good home!


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks! Yep today has been worry free! No worrying about trying to keep him away from his mama/sister. Now the girls can run in the main pen or wooded area as they please  I think I may even take down the fence that seperates them so I can make a pen, as we plan to get a young buck very very soon and I don't want him running with the herd. I can use that pen in the future for weaning the boys 

Haven't done anything yet as far as selling the doe, I am going to let my friend know before I do.


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## toth boer goats (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: :hi5: :hug:


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Okay talked with hubby. We're going to give her until November to shape up, if she isn't ready to be bred by November, then we'll sell her and get a different doe who IS registered, and hopefully friendly, not a hard keeper, etc. We do like her kids....I'd sure love to get a paint doe from her...


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## HoosierShadow (Apr 20, 2010)

Well... we sold Wild Child and her daughter today. It was not a decision based on me wanting a larger doe, etc. I truly believe she would do better on a large farm, more space, and a place to get away from bullies. 
Our herd queen has been really mean to her - won't let her sleep in the barn with her and the others, and even when she was inside the barn, you could see she was unhappy to be around miss meannie.
The person who bought her is buying does to start a herd, and the only reason I sold her daughter is because I was afraid she'd not have a buddy and be even more miserable. Her daughter would have been fine here without her, but I do care about their feelings , and well, she is replaceable. 

After the holidays I plan to look for a nice doe, hopefully bred for early spring kids.


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## liz (Oct 5, 2007)

I know it was a hard choice for you to make but you did what was best and theres nothing wrong with thinking of their "feelings" :hug:


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## freedomstarfarm (Mar 25, 2011)

That may be just what she needs. I t was nice of you to think of her and sell her daughter also. :hug:


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